The Nine Clues…….Part Thirtythree


This is the place to discuss the nine clues…For instance:
What are the nine clues…
Is the first clue “Begin it where warm waters halt” ?

This post is now closed to comments. You can continue the conversation by viewing the next Nine Clues.

854 thoughts on “The Nine Clues…….Part Thirtythree

      • no it is not. It is a word used by some people. At the time. It was their key word. If you knew what it was i wanted to talk.

      • inthechaseto, so I never did figure out the answer to your 2 part A—E question. but I did figure out your geography question we tossed around. BT4, and yes have enjoyed bands, dancing and a few beers there during college years, just don’t have same memory since it was clouded by college fun! Glad to see MScl is back in charge. looks like nice improvements. He’s done so much for the area, really proud of that community. Their civc minded citizens play well rich and working class together for the best of all. If I find ff’s treasure, I’m moving there as my first act of rebellion against suberbia :-). Show me the treasure!

  1. I strongly believe the 1st clue is “As I have gone in there alone”. It sets the stage and references past & present all in one. Period.

    • I see the 1st 3 lines as support lines. If you are getting close they make more sense because they can verify that you may be on track. The 4th line has not been helpful for me yet. The search begins WWWH Though.

    • I suppose “in” let’s you know to move forward. No clue as to into what; a forest, cave or canyon?
      It is the later clue that tells me it is a canyon.

      I have to keep it simple. Like “treasures new and old” seems obvious from what he has told us about the items in the box.

      The leap I take is “Begin it”. The “it” IMO refers to the journey, not the Quest. Difference being the quest begins with deciphering the poem. The journey begins with The home of brown.

      Here is the sticky part; I think the Blaze marks the way to the treasure, not the treasure itself. It is late in the prose that the blaze is mentioned, but I think the way it is worded, he means “If you have done your homework, it has led you here.”

      • In my latest searches (online) the 1st 3 verses have been supportive in my search locations. I think there may be other supportive phrases too. I have also found locations near my chosen locations that appear to support my search. However, I must admit I have never found a location that I want to search. Time will tell, one way or the other we will all no is we were ever on the right path.

        Question: Awhile back there was some discussion about the chest being in an outhouse (below) and f indicated that that guess was incorrect. Do any of you know what led that searcher decide to look there?

      • Begin at the beginning.
        End at the end.
        Don’t get lost in the middle.
        EVERY thing in the poem means something X 3 <

  2. a couple of questions. First, anyone know where i can get a copy of Craig Rosequist book “Forrest Fenn’s Unexpected Treasure” ? i cant seem to find it anywhere.

    Also ive noticed the discussion on “a word that is key” Now i recently discovered something and ill tell it and hope im breaking the “dont mess with the poem rule” cause i dont wanna give away anything that will give someone the clue they need (cause i need it more, lol.)

    Anyway in the poem it says “begin it where where warm waters halt” another word for halt is freeze. and warm water (or any water for that matter) freezes at 32 degrees. so if you count 32 letters and spaces from the beginning of the poem, you get the letter N. Next it says “take it in the canyon down” thinking “it” is the letter N you just found and literally take the N down from canyon, you get “cayo” which is an old spanish word for key. But not a key like for a lock but a key like a tiny island, like in a river or such.

    Any thoughts on this?

    • O, small correction, cayo is a spanish word that was adapted from the Taino Indians of Hispanola and Cuba meaning small island

    • C McElroy – Nice sleuthing on ‘cayo’ and it’s island meaning. In my solve the final place I hope to search is a type of island but inland a ways from water.

    • First ‘thought’ if counting 32, What was the reasoning to start at AS to find the letter N in aNd? if the poem “says” to start at “begin it where warm waters halt” wouldn’t it be the place to start your count.
      So I’m curious on why using this line of thinking, you would go backwards. I ask only for the fact, if there is not a solid reason to Not start where the poem “told you” to start, it sounds more like a guess.

      With that said, I like the thought process you taken in seeing other information in the poem.

      • i was thinking like, when it says to start WWWH, thats the starting point, but you have to get there first. Kinda like driving from your home to your starting point. Home point being the first letter of the poem.

      • i also wondered about, WWWH, the S in waters, thats where it halts, so maybe starting there. but where to go from there, it says canyon down next, so maybe like if a kid is saying “goin in the canyon” while they are playing, its like in the middle of something, so “canyon down” may be the midpoint from the S to the end of the poem.

        The reason i keep thinking this way is cause Mr Fenn says explicitly “dont mess with my poem” in other words, IMO, if you change the poem, you cant get the letters or words out you need, cause they are no longer in order.

      • I see your train of thought C McElroy. If I said that the poem has three staring points, on Paper, and in the understanding of the poem, How would you respond.

        In my opinion, your correct as to the two starts …As I have gone… and Begin it where… I’ll add, Why is it I must go. For me all these points are starting points and used to understand the poem.

        When I first read the poem a dozen times or so, I saw a blend of staring points with different meanings or references. I think…IMO… the entire poem is written this way and not a in a single vision that each part of the poem is just a single stage to figure out. A canyon may not “Just” be a canyon, And at the same time, no need to change it.

        Just as your “32” count, I would not rule out other counts. the problem with Counting is not to let your mind wonder. Do I think a 36″ bath tub will give up a clue… No. Does 42 have an answer to the poem..IMO…No. For one simple reason, they are external to the poem. But I do like the idea of the format of the poem itself.

        I read the poem as Hints, Not clues. The Many Many Hints that just lead to 9 clues.
        Of course this is just a different way of looking at the poem other than reading it from top to bottom and look for water, canyon, distance, a trout, a creek etc. IMO.

  3. All good thinking. Dal, thanks for opening a new whatever this is (post, scrapbook, blog thread, etc.). This Nine Clues sure has been filling up quickly. To all… I am teetering on going out searching Sunday/Monday. I have been out on many a search to my area and I know how tired I get. The next time I get out will be pretty strenuous and time consuming. I know f did it in one afternoon, but he had been to the spot before and though I feel I have been close, I still don’t have my spot pin pointed. If I have to wait until weather permits next year, so be it. I love being out in the mountains, but I do need to take care of things on the homefront. Like I said, I am teetering so there is still a chance that I will persist in my chase. I will keep an eye on the weather and not put my safety at risk. Again Thanks Dal. Dallas is being prayed for.

    • I don’t have my spot pin-pointed either but I do not think it is in an area that is too strenuous or time consuming to get to. I actually feel it is a lot closer to where his car was parked than I thought at first. No more trips for me this year so I guess I’ll just read the books, scrapbooks, etc again over the winter and plan a trip for next spring…. if it hasn’t been found by then! 🙂

    • Hey Michael it’s Pete, I was thrown into moderation recently when I had some time off and apparently threw a few too many of my ideas out there all at once. Must be a limit on doing that.

    • Michael D – couldn’t agree more. Only I’ll take a song in my heart over a full belly. Open minds get to fly to places others only dream of. 🙂

  4. I was playing in the garage and missed being first to post 🙁

    On a side note, my scary halloween eyes are coming along, I am almost done with the first set.

  5. TX Gold, Inthechaseto: I heard you whisper my name. Yes, I still follow Dal’s blog – from a safe lurking distance. Some comments got a bit weird for me. May I be of assistance, or did you just miss me?

      • inthechaseto –
        no comments, just saw my name and thought to come out of lurker mode and say hello; ask why name was mentioned.
        (after others discussed where I lived for no apparent reason, I was being cautious).
        Hope you’re enjoying your Sunday, and all the new material on Dal’s great blog. Best to everyone.

  6. I’ve not been here for some time. Odd that this seems to have started the day I returned!
    I was searching for the 13th clue from Forrest and just went on some WGC’s.
    I’m sure someone can help me here.

  7. Hi All,

    anyone thoughts on how specific of a location the clues eventually refer to? 1 mile sq radius? exact spot maybe?

    My current solve puts it in roughly 2 sq mile radius

      • that’s interesting. I can’t for the life of me think of any possible clue that would point to 10″x10″ area

        taking account that no specialized knowledge or history is needed.

        • paraphrasing:
          clues…if followed precisely…
          walk right up to it with a smile…
          sounds pretty pinpoint and precise to me.
          Now, where…

      • Evil Dick,

        If I said you may have to find the answers to three hints to make a clue… would that help?

        Just a suggestion.

        • thanks Seeker – I guess I just don’t think that clues would be needed, based on all info, to point out a 10″x10″ spot – possibly 10’x10′ but not that small of a space.

  8. Good things take time… Its not like we got to the moon on our first space mission.. One small step… Plan B is operational and tested… 🙂

    • Pieces of 9 – indeed, good things take time and they come to those who patiently wait… or in this case of TC, do their homework. lol! How is your solve coming? I’m trying to consolidate thoughts and need to type up a new one. So many things to consider, and even given the right solutions I could never do justice to Forrest’s poem and all it entails with layers of meaning, etc. I’m just not the thinker or writer that he is.

  9. Pieces of 9,

    you are correct…however…non of us here have the same ‘budget” to work with that Nasa had either… :mrgreen:

  10. I’m just gonna say it.
    42, you started as level42, then 42 level, then just 42. Lia, you started as liafail020, lia20, then lia. There’s a knownothing, don’tknowknothing, don ‘tknownothing1 and don’tknownothing2.
    Just to point a few curiousities…then there’s Cowboy, think he’s on crack along with dkn2..
    there’s many other aberrations, but I’ll keep those to myself for now.

    One other question…
    Has there ever been a discussion re: One Horse Land & Cattle Co.?

  11. I think it’s time for more pondering, and as I promised, this will be about religion (more or less) but mostly spirituality.

    I have a feeling that some are questioning my sanity, so let me assure you: I don’t consider that I’m not completely insane.
    Now that I got it cleared-up, what follows is a musing.

    “As I have gone ALONE IN THERE, and with MY TREASURES BOLD” – right here at least two clues. I’m even inclined to separate “alone” and “in there”, but maybe Forrest considers the whole line a clue.

    As I wrote in my parody of a poem: ALONE, BOLD were some of my clues (they happen to be Forrest’s too – I think he peeked at my poem before writing his) and along with those were CIRCUMSTANCE and CHANCE.
    Related to these four clues, and in the same stanza, was the hint ”covers me for pore to pore”, which of course is a take on “Out of the night that covers me, black as the pit from pole to pole” and therein lies the foundation of this hypothesis.

    A side note; It was a full-fledged theory before Forrest quoted from Invictus in the Moby Dickens video, and nothing changed since… well, almost nothing but my spot stayed the same. Most of you know the feeling when Forrest confirms some of your presumptions 🙂 – I had quite a few that hit me like a ton of bricks, and you know how the saying goes: when Forrest gives you bricks, build a foundation 😛

    O.K. – maybe now it’s a good time to google Invictus and read it before proceeding further (and I don’t mean the screenplay from the movie either)
    Quite a read… and imagine that Henley “only” had his leg amputated below the knee, while Forrest was given 20% chance of living three years. Phew!

    In the poem, Henley is:
    ALONE – “night that covers me”,
    IN THERE – “the pit from pole to pole and”
    WITH HIS TREASURES BOLD – “my unconquerable soul” and “unafraid”.

    Of course, we’re talking Invictus because of Forrest’s off the cuff quoting from it, and the subsequent comment: “And, I think that’s a good place to stop. Don’t you?” Several bricks in this one.
    It was an “unforced error” and most importantly the words “place to stop”. No, I don’t think a dark pit is a good place to stop… unless, it’s about when and where the chase stops.

    Anyway, even before the Henley quote, Forrest threw more bricks at us:
    “I don’t feel like I’ve given it away. Whoever finds it, is gonna earn it.”
    “I believe that there’s a higher hand someplace. I don’t know what it is but…”
    “I believe in karma and some of those things. I’m not a religious person, but I’m probably the most spiritual person around.”- and of course… there is Kismet.

    Everything is connected, matter of fact, I think that these last three quotes set him on the logical path of Invictus disclosure.

    I’ll leave it here for now, with an emerging pattern for understanding why it is a special place TO HIM.
    Next I’ll muse about the answers that I already know. They are intrinsically related to all of the above, especially if you read the poem over and over and over again 😉

    • Amy S, since you do understand the Phantom’s discourse, would you be so kind to clue others (me) in? Invictus is Definitely a heavy, full meal deal to try digesting. I enjoy the lighter amuse bouche version of solving the poem. KISS & keep it fun – show it to your kids, etc.

      • Lia

        Well can’t give to much away my next trip next year , I’m just going to twist like a snake I have to take it down the canyon . My imigination runs wild. I will go with confidence once again but I have no idea if it’s even there but my imigination says it is. Just have to search and put it together starting with no place for the meek then from there I will do my best to follow the directions from the poem once I see what’s around. If it is there then I have never been the one who was 500 feet from it. Like I thought I was the one lol we all think that right .
        I’m still working it out I have plenty of time. At least I think I do.
        I live in Texas not far from Dallas the Ebola is pretty scary . I will keep my hands clean. 🙂

        • only one way we’ll ever recover from this TC affliction. Let’s all focus on the maps, what we know, put away the ciphers & anagram nonsense. I have come across a half dozen places where warm waters halt, just by studying the maps. sure you may go cross-eyed after a while. try reading the book misty pilots, bury me upside down, Forrest flew forward air missions. Those guys were resourceful, they had to be. They built their own google earth from photos & plywood

    • I had to look up Henley and read Invictus. I found that I have a lot in common with him. A below the knee amputation and an unconquerable soul for example. But, I am no atheist. Not by a long shot. My experience has ruled out all doubt.
      Is Invictus a reference to compare to the poem? I don’t see it. FF original plan was to go out into the desert with the box and die there. The location is said to be in line with that plan, in the mountains north of Santa Fe. I don’t know how he could be so fond of such a place. I prefer to search in forrests with streams and lakes. Whenever I go to those places I find the treasure every time.
      But, if you really want to find the box…Bunkman fits both the poem and the other clues, as well as the original plan. There is even an X on the map at the location where I saw a blaze. Just take a shovel to dig your car out of the sand and mud. As for me, I stared at it and figured it was better there than in the bank… and my prosthetic leg was not willing. So, I winked at it and passed.

      • Hi, Michael. It sounds like it really is safer there than in the bank. Do you mean Buckman? I believe the Treasure is very near there…close to White Rock. I hope to make a trip there soon.

        • Yes, I meant Buckman. I was looking down from Observation Park in Whiterock when I first got the idea to go there. There is a road along the cliff that I thought would get me there. But that road is only accesable from San Ildifonso. So I looked at the atlas of New Mexico and right on the cover was Buckman with a X on it. I laughed and took it as a sign. But man, what a sandy road.

          • I think I noticed that X on the cover of the atlas just recently. That’s very interesting, Michael, that we had a similar idea. The last time I looked down from Observation Park I remember reciting Psalm 23 as I was seeking clarity. It’s one of my favorites. I’m glad you got out of there safe and sound. I noticed it looks quite treacherous. I suppose that’s why I was reciting that Psalm…now that I think about it.

    • Mr. {}
      Why that is some pretty good Theories you have going here and have a lot of ears perked you way.
      Would you mind if I ask you a question or two.
      1) what makes a man ? The manner in which he leaves this dimension? The cause of this travel? What he/she leaves behind ? How he lived his life or how he came into it?

      2) when it’s somebody’s turn to go meet their maker and answer his question. They will stand before him/her nobody by their side. Do you think They will be questions about the last part of their life or their entire life? Do you think They will be asked why they were the person they were?

      3). Who was Forrest Fenn? Who is the man, not the man we think he is?

      4). Where is your rainbow painted ?

      These are only my thoughts and spelling errors as the days pass the eyes squint get smaller and fingers get fatter.

  12. Sorry all for filling ur eboxes. It’s all I can do in my little one room cabin in the forest at night ..
    Well, not all I can do ..
    Nighty night. I hope.

    • Michael D,
      nice the Scott’s understand the importance of unearthing history, and reward the finder. Our gov’t could take a lesson in ‘everybody learns and wins in furthering historical discovery.’

  13. Lets start a stampede!!!

    Clue #1. Begin it where warm waters halt
    Gives us the state in which to begin, and where to look for the canyon, by stating to begin the search where Colorado (red colored…AKA warm) waters halt….which is at the Colorado border. Warm waters halt many places in the Rockies… wherever a stream leaves the state to become another state’s waters.
    Clue #2. And take it in the canyon down,
    Gives us the canyon to begin in. If we read it with inflection on a certain word that is key, we hear, “And take it in THEE canyon down,” When you look at a good map, that can only be the RIO GRANDE canyon. It is THEE canyon in Colorado that flows South (AKA down) as in down South.
    Clue #3. Put in below the home of Brown.
    Gives us where to enter the canyon by telling us to get into the canyon below the home of Molly Brown…which is, once again “THINKING BIG”…not Leadville, not Denver, just….COLORADO. So we now know our direction of travel in the canyon is SOUTH, or BELOW, the state of Colorado, which places us in New Mexico.
    Clue #4. From there, it’s no place for the meek. The end is ever drawing nigh.
    Gives us which side of the canyon to look on by hinting the end is left.
    Clue #5. There’ll be no paddle up your creek, Just heavy loads and water high.
    Gives us directions to go upstream when we hit the first creek on the left, which happens to be dry most of the time, and which happens to be called Costilla Creek (AKA Rib). It only flash floods during high water events, dumping heavy loads of sand and sediment into the Rio Grande. But further up this creek, in the mountains, the creek becomes a famous Trout stream.
    Clue #6. If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, Look quickly down, your quest to cease.
    Upper Costilla creek is mostly private, but below Costilla Reservoir, there is a short stretch of Forest Service land. It is along this stretch of road (on the left) that the mountainside turns white, and white cliffs and bluffs exist there.
    Clue #7. But tarry scant with marvel gaze, Just take the chest and go in peace.
    The geology of the area is such that fractured and cracked granite prevails here. In these cracks are high concentrations of, yep, you guessed it, URANIUM! So don’t hang around too long if you don’t want to glow in the dark! La Cueva mining district is in Costilla Creek drainage, in northern Taos County.
    Clue #8. UNSOLVED
    Clue #9. UNSOLVED

    • It’s a good theory and works well, except for the unsolved parts, lol.

      But is it the correct theory to start? Many places could be thought of the same way and just lead to a wild goose chase. Molly Brown is a bit hard to digest. What would be the significance of her to the poem?… everything else you mention has to do with geography. I get it, your talking about a “State” But to use the Unsinkable in correlation with geography is a bit of a stretch. imo

      So could it be that in your theory the possible radiation theory that most Cancer patients receive make them tired and weak? I’m just wondering where this is all going is all. I’d be mildly curious on your take of the 6th stanza… to finalize this theory.

      I think hoB may have more reference and meaning to the solve, as well as, I don’t see an indicator to Where the chest maybe. But then again, I may have blinders on, because I don’t see the KISS part that simple.

      One man’s opinion.

    • someone once told me, if your off by a degree and follow that heading you’ll end up so far from target you might as well be in Taz or Timbuktu. How right you are Seeker “Begin it” is everything flowing from there.

  14. An interesting article from a perspective of a fellow Canadian from 1967 (just down the road from here). Interesting words to ponder …

    “I’ve never wanted to be an American more than on that day. It was a time when many nations in the world looked to America as their big brother, a steady and even-handed beacon of security who navigated difficult political water with grace and style; not unlike the pilot who’d just flown into my memory. He was proud, not arrogant, humble, not a braggart, old and honest, projecting an aura of America at its best. That America will return one day, I know it will.”

  15. Another question answered by f.

    Hi Forrest,
    You once said you walked the 92 miles from West Yellowstone to Bozeman to just experience it. Obviously you were much younger than you were when you hid the treasure. Too far to walk means different things at different ages so I was wondering if you would be so bold as to give an estimate of how far you walked to hide the treasure after leaving your car: was it >10miles, between 5 and 10 miles, between 1 and 5 miles, or less than 1 mile? ~Thanks, Ron.

    Ron, your question sounds like a travelogue, but I’ll answer it. No, I don’t want to be that bold. But I will say that I walked less than a few miles if that will help. I just looked “few” up and one definition is “scant.” Why do I sound like I’m talking in circles? f

    • interesting, so if he made 2 trips, a few miles total, thats 4 walks back and forth, putting possibly the TC within a mile of a road somewhere in the rockies. yep….

      also, whats peoples map of choice? ive got the entire USGS hires maps of the rockies. but they dont, for some odd reason, show any waterfalls, which i think has alot to do with the poem. any advice on good topo maps?

  16. Forrest nice new picture of u on the blog 🙂

    And Forrest really knows how to answer those questions he is just good and can really hold on to his secret:) !!!!!!!

        • Phantom: Nice new photo of Forrest, don’t you think? I’m also here, sitting next to Amy. We’re part of the Texas contingent and ready for your musing. Just don’t weird me out tonight…some strange overtones out of jc1117 today.

  17. I think Fenn thinks more in a day then some people do in weeks.. But some things can only be experienced in the body… like reading the story of David and Goliath…its never going to be the same as being in David’s body. Anyway the thrill is out there but remember where you come from Fenn!! TEXAS and the COWBOYS put the damper on Seatle at home and OHIO and the BROWNS win.. (put in below the home of brown). Do I need to say more? XO XO to all my fans from TeXas too OhiO. God bless and read Psalms 23 to the kids if your facing a stormy night…. F is solid as a rock… not giving it away on Q&A… Clearly im a little too high 🙂

  18. I have been trying to understand the poem for years. Then I started seeing a common connection in my notes. I am being asked to find the solve in a place outside of the Rocky Mountains. Yet, the solve will bring me back. The poem I am finding was designed for all nations and cultures. It seems the word “wood” is key. Thinking crazy.

    • I too have had this thought Crazy. The map is created elsewhere (like Connecticut for example) then placed on the Rockies and lined up somehow to lead to the chest.

    • interesting perspective. If I understand what your saying, the poem leads the searcher to areas outside the search area. This would be a bit confusing if the information needed is outside the search area and eventually brings the search to a single spot inside the search area. – I have some hints that are outside the search area, but most are within -. But it maybe possible that all but one is outside the { now known } search area. May also explain why there seems to be a gap between Heavy loads and water high.. to .. if you’ve been wise and “found” the Blaze.

      • Yes, the poem leads you outside the Rocky Mountains just as if you added Saint Mark to the written path to the chest that is hidden.








  20. Previously I ended with a mention of “The answer I already know”.
    I think that this is closely related to his spiritual beliefs, in fact the whole fifth stanza is related to this and the first stanza.

    “So why is that I MUST go, and leave my trove for all to seek.” – So, why?
    “Because he HAS done it tired and NOW he’s weak.”
    I wanted to stress the fact that whatever he done tired was in the past, and at present he’s weak. He’s weak because he is wavering, doesn’t want to do it, and he’d probably like to hang onto the chest a little longer, but he MUST take the chest and leave it out there.

    When? and What? has he done tired – Here is my interpretation for both questions:
    WHEN – as he had gone alone
    WHAT – kept his secret…
    And WHY he was tired – because of the cancer treatment.

    Now about that secret that he keeps; maybe he’s talking in his sleep 🙂
    What is THE SECRET?

    The answer is straightforward: his prayers (liturgy) kept at the end of offertory. What did he offer in his prayers? If I have to spell it out in one word – INDULGENCE.
    (I promised a while back this musing about religion and beliefs, and now I have Indulgence to help in making my point – it’s rather “comforting” 😉 )
    Now everything starts to come together in a simple theory.

    When he was diagnosed and given very little time, Forrest started to pray in this place (dark pit from pole to pole); he knew about it before as he probably used to fish in the area, but it became special to him because that’s where he prayed and offered his earthly treasure for more years on Earth.
    And as his prayers were answered and Indulgence was granted, he didn’t have any choice but to leave the chest for all to seek.

    Now here’s the kicker: He’s not a religious person, but the most spiritual one around.
    So all this talk about secret liturgy and offertory is not quite what he believes, but close. He just used the word “secret” because it works perfectly within the poem.

    His special place is in fact a spiritual retreat. He most likely prayed in there, not with organized religion in mind but more in a spiritual way.
    And it was strictly between him and the “higher hand”, in which he absolutely believes. And why shouldn’t he 🙂

    That’s it for now. Maybe next I’ll put forth a theory about the chest before it became Indulgence, and why it was THE PERFECT chest; it could relate to the special place, which I would possibly describe as his “whishing well”.
    Hence the money thrown in, manner of speaking.

    • Thank you fenntom for the musings. Indulgence was an oblation for safe passage in matters of life. Not only from cancer but also the 328 combat missions. He promised that special place he would return and repay.

    • Good morning, empty set. 🙂
      It appears you have put thought into this.
      I appreciate your sharing. I’m right behind you…following your path. 🙂
      And yeah, you’re gonna earn it!

    • Could “done it tired” have reference to his dedication in TFTW “Who have pushed me against my will?” He was encouraged to keep fighting for life even when he was so very tired and sick and sick of being tired and sick.

      • BW – yes, Forrest would be beyond thankful to his wife Peggy and his daughters for pushing him against his tired and weak will to find strength and reason to live. If not for their determined love and faith he may have thrown in the towel and missed his last 25 years of life and the blessing of knowing his grandchildren. People who have never looked terminal illness or the ravages of war square in the face are at a disadvantage for understanding who Forrest is and why his treasures are his family and not the antiquities or gold.

          • Thanks sixer. I’m also pondering whether stewarding Forrest’s treasure would be a burden or blessing. I’m not sure if having excess money and things complicates rather than simplifies life. Giving it away has to bring a smile knowing you could assist others.
            Best give my best to family today and not waste time on blogs. Best wishes to you Jenny.

    • Hey Set , Three cheers ! Ra-Ra-Ra !
      “Disappearance of the Sha

      Although Set was originally viewed as the son and defender of Ra, and the Egyptian kings, his reputation amongst the people declined along with the rise of the cult of Osiris. ”

      Pretty interesting postings of yours I have read.

      Don’t get so anxious as the time will come soon enough as we all find that the wait slows down life a wee bit.

      “However, he was not always considered to be an evil being. Set was a friend of the dead, helping them to ascend to heaven on his ladder, and he protected the life giving oases of the desert, and was at times a powerful ally to the pharaoh and even the sun god Ra.”

    • {} Shadow, sometimes I struggle to follow your intelligent discourse because it’s cryptic. This is very well written for the average blogger… like myself. I enjoyed it, and am sorry I missed reaing it until tonight. Your insights are keen. Thanks for taking time to post your thoughts.

  21. Peter, a great thought you have. Yet, the word “wood” has a hugh significance that Forrest had used many times that molded his life. Many people have been close but don’t understand the significance. He said to think big.

      • I don’t believe he ever said think big. One of the authors of the early magazine articles said it in reference to the clues being large geographic features. That was his opinion.

      • There was a video interview 2-3 years ago with f and another man walking side by side down a white hallway (news station?) and f was being asked questions as they walked along. That is where I recall f saying “think big”. I have looked for the video, but can’t locate it. Maybe someone else can find it, or maybe it has been taken down, idk. I can still picture the video in my mind, so I feel pretty confident that this is where the “think big” reference originated.

      • As crazy as I am, my mind may be becoming certifiable. I thought at one time I heard him say it in an interview. If I am wrong, I need to take out the trashcan by my desk.
        In my line of work, if I cant solve the problem, I need to go to the beginning.

    • It seems we keep recycling through the same old rumors…… “Think Big” was big a couple years ago. You guys really should do just a little bit of research.

      Q: The internet abounds with a supposed statement from you, saying to “think big”, particularly about the home of Brown. Did you ever say that? Is that a “fact” that I can add to my page?Kindest regards from a rainy UK!

      A: I don’t remember saying that related to the treasure and can’t imagine why I would. f

          • Umm Yes?, that’s why it was interesting. I would say No to the lake, yes to having fun with her and a definite, maybe, possibility, could be, just might mean… math is required. Or at the very least there are numbers related to the poem.

            I’m almost 100%, somewhat confident, that it may have been, a hint. Cuz we all know he does that in is comments… right? But maybe like the woman asking the question… I’m just dreaming.

          • Edit: I will add; this partial quote from fenn.

            “If you want to apply those important figures into the thrill of the chase I will give you an additional clue. The Treasure chest full of gold and precious jewels is more than 66,000 links north of Santa Fe.”

            Which “figure” are important?

      • It matters not, I heard him say that in an early interview…there are several interviews that I viewed years ago that I no longer can find, you can take me at my word or not…I have no reason to deceive, and nothing to gain by passing along that intel…

    • I think there is a confusion between “think big” and “look at the big picture”. The latter he did say 🙂

  22. Is there a clue that tells how the chest is hidden? I have my ideas but is there anything in the poem? What about “in the wood” or “quickly down”? What say thee..

    • If there is no trail, then go where no trail leads. “As I have gone alone in there”, where no one has gone before. Can you think of other people who have “gone alone”?

      Try to understand what it is in the characteristics of water, that make it “warm”.

      Look for a “blaze”, before you get to the 4th stanza, not after.

      Understand what drove him to hide his “trove”. He knows the answer, do you?

      Of course, these are just my thoughts.

        • Ed,

          Methinks this is a play on words similar to the comment made by Donnie Joe in “Looking for Lewis and Clark”…Don’t have my book available at the moment, so can’t quote it…Something about they would wind up where they were going?…

          There appear to be a few words missing from your statement that would make it’s meaning a little clearer, if you think about it for a moment…

          Try reading it this way….when you don’t know where to go (you could wind up anywhere and) any trail will take you there…

          The converse is…when you know where to go there is only one path to follow…

          The search location IS hidden in the words of the poem, of that I am 100% certain…You must first locate where you must go before you can even hope to know where to look for the chest…

          Three ff statements…
          1) “all the information you need to locate the treasure is in the poem”…

          2) “thread a tract through the wiles of nature and circumstance to the treasure”…

          3) “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did”…

          He has told all of us repeatedly that the answers all lie in the words of the poem…He already knows them…We must find them…That is the dare and the challenge and the thrill of the chase…

          “It is difficult but not impossible”…

    • Forrest and Dal congratulations ,
      Forrest does a wonderful job on his stories and to keep us all interested.

      Dal u do a wonderful job running this blog and so quick to answer questions:)

      The time has no come for me to be meek. 🙂 way to many people observing. Forrest has a secret and so do I 🙂 !!!!!

  23. Maybe this is stupid to comment on here. But has anyone looked around the Popo Agie Wilderness area outside of Landers?

    I was doing a search on the quote above the school house door they used to stop at and though the only one I can find is in Colorado at a university, not in WY as FF says. But doing a search brought me to a pdf about the Larder school history. Not sure why since that quote isn’t in the pdf. Strange.
    Though Landers would be on the route to YNP. Though he said they went 50 miles out of the way to the school house (25 or so each way?)

    Anyway, in the pdf, they talk about Lander was at one time, Fort Brown!

    When Fort Brown was moved and became Fort Washakie, people stayed to create Lander, WY.

    So go west out of Lander and you get Shoshone NF. and the Popo Agie wilderness area.

    and what does Popo Agie mean?
    Wait for it…

    “Beginning of the Waters”

    So, could it be somewhere in the wilderness? Maybe 25 miles or so from the Lander 1 room school house on Garfield and 6th street?

    Could it be near Popo Agie Falls? Around 500 feet off of the trail?

    Guess I will find out next spring.

    • thats the best solve I have seen on this blog ever….good Job! I will give you a 1 gold coin when I find it there this spring! 🙂

      • I actually have one better than that (IMHO) but I can’t share that. 🙂

        This was just doing research last night and this morning. Probably should stop and get work done.
        Especially since I have a meeting I am not ready for in 25 minutes.

          • is yours in YNP? 🙂 And has to do with “ad9psuhn;j534jbnf8*&(*8” and also with “02987ysdfh*)YOG?”

            If it does, we may have the same one. :O

            Weird that it got encrypted like that. 🙂

          • Possibly, maybe, could be……or not. What was the question again 😉

            I like your new signature.

          • Well have to get in on this one. 🙂
            Come on ladies, give him what he asked for. LOL

    • I feel you. That’s the general track I’m focused on right now too, though I’m looking more at the “sinks” on the Popo Agie river.

      Also, I hadn’t caught that translation of “popo agie” before. Good call.

      • Oh Hi Mark, its under “More info and musings” Titled “Ladies only” Look way down on the thread. Its my name…Lou Lee
        I sure had fun and i might go back. Thanks for asking. If you can post a link for me. thanks

  24. Just found out about this treasure and had the pleasure of being in new Mexico over the weekend. Just wanted to bounce some ideas out there. I’m sure they’ve been looked at, but here is what I think about wwwh. What if it is a Creek or river that is dry during parts of the year? It could use any of the Definitions of warm, but I’m more curious about halting. Also what if halting is similar to military where it means to stand still or at attention? Any warm waters that are quick moving except in one or more places where they have a slow moving part. Typically used by fisherman to catch fish is a hole?

    • Hello Briggity, welcome to Dals blog. Your WWWH ideas are excellent btw. I always appreciate a fresh point of view. You may enjoy trying to apply more than one of your solutions to each clue.

      • pul out your bathtube from the flo0r and take itn the canyon hard paddle hardtheywon’t help here trout then you come to home of brown a he’s nasty take out there then go back to Warmwater Halts T.S. Eliot

    • Hey briggity,

      The best advice I can give you is, don’t listen to any advice I give.

      Enjoy the chase.

      • I’ll post them here in a bit. For starters I feel that the San Juan river is a good start. It’s a warm river and halts (dries up) it several spots. I think I like the halting at Navajo damn though. The canyon down is obvious with a damn. There is also a recreation trail that is only accessible by boat ride. (Not to far. 7.7 miles, but it’s too far to walk) Below the home of brown is downstream in this sense. Or home of the people before. The next paragraph technically has multiple clues, but I think they all relate to the boat ride. It also can be done by canoe which is why he can do it by himself. The next clue is the blaze. There are supposedly several ancient drawings here. It’s also a great spot for sunsets and is big In The art community. He said once you’re there the blaze is obvious. Sunset would also be beautiful and Worth the gaze. It’s not an overly popular sight so random people won’t find it. It’s where I’d start haha ill post my other ideas later

  25. Dal, in your Tips from Forrest, you state:

    “He has told us over and over that the smart place to start is where warm waters halt. Starting in the middle of the poem, for instance at the home of Brown, is not a good strategy.”

    Did FF ever actually say that or did he just say start with the first Clue? Did he ever say that WWWH was the first clue?

    • Mark TOO-
      I believe he actually told us in an email or a comment that starting at the HOB was not a good strategy. If my memory is correct he said that quite a while ago when many searchers were simply looking for HOB because it was easier to think about than figuring out the meaning of WWWH. I cannot tell you where that was. I may have known at one time..but not any more. Look at the date on that post and certainly Forrest’s comment would have been before that..
      Check the “email from Forrest” pages first..

      As far as I know Forrest has never said what the first clue is. That is to say he has not labeled it as the first clue. However he has said on other occasions that we need to figure out WWWH and he has also said that we need to start at the beginning….

      It is certainly possible to extract from those two statements that WWWH is the beginning. It is just as possible to extract some other meaning.

      I know what I choose to believe.

      • Sorry Dal – I thought I read that too – FF is so clever with his words – Dal you do soooooo much already with this site – thank you
        I think I’m going to compile all FF direct quotes – I’m obviously getting old 😉

  26. Question? What happened to Stephanie?
    Does she not participate anymore?

    Some interesting comments from FF about her and her search.

  27. I guess I did. But when FF pretty much says, she knows the first two clues, I wish she was still on here.

    • That’s not EXACTLY what he said….although he did infer she had been close…but he also stated he didn’t believe that searchers KNEW they had solved the first two clues….

      • Just read all the comments in another section about those two comments from FF.

        I hate this. You have one great solve then something else pops up Mile and miles from it.


  28. If Mr. Fenn uses double -entendre could WWWH be at Manby Hot Springs in the spring? I mean cold water from run-off in the river comes into contact with hot water in the springs in spring and thus halting the warm water. RC

    • The chest is not at Manby I know otherwise IMO because I won’t offer any goods. Traversing some beautiful windy bluffs right now 70 degrees. Peace out!

  29. RC…I love your conviction about Manby…would you be willing to enlighten me about how you came up with that location, and what exactly gives you yor confidence?

    • Michael D* Look at all the comments Mr. Fenn has been given since the start of the chase. Listen carefully to what he says and write it on a piece of paper. Gather all the info coming from Mr. Fenn himself, and not what others say. Study Arthur Mamby and make connections with what Mr. Fenn has said all along. After you have all the data, connect the dots with Manby Hot Springs and its geography. RC

  30. One comment from an interview that I thought was interesting was when someone asked if you could find the TC strictly from using Google Earth. He responded a quick, “No”, Then said, “Did I just say that?”
    Then recanted,”You can’t find a picture of it on Google Earth.

    But his quickness at first pretty much says, its not out in the open, ie. you can’t see it from the air.

    So, IMHO, it must be under a ledge or more than likely, in some type of cave or grotto.

    • Actually he said you cant see it from GE because it doesnt go down far enough.

        • Athena, the goddess of wisdom and military victory, and also the patron of the city of Athens, was Hercules’ half-sister. Her parents were Zeus and Metis, a nymph. No I like to keep it simple LOL

        • Athana -The Goddess of wisdom valor, and strategy wearing a Taylor Swift wig may be the one at the finish line! LOL 🙂

          Forrest, are you drafting stanza seven to the poem including hidey spots in the Dinaric Alps?

          IMHO, it wouldn’t hurt to revisit classic Greek Mythology, constellations, and Muses…
          Oh, and KISS with leap frog!

      • Actually, he didn’t say that. He just said, “No, it isn’t….Did I really say that?” then thought about what he said, then said, “Uh, There’s not a picture of the treasure chest on Google Earth”
        And then added, “Because Google Earth doesn’t go down far enough.”
        But that was just FF trying to cover himself. His initial, “No, it isn’t” “Did I really say that?” to me really means, No, you can’t see it from the air.


  31. I read some place Dal told her where Mr. Fenn hid some of his bronze work. She posted about it on another site and now she isn’t allowed here. She had good posts.

    • Dave-
      1. I have no idea where Forrest hid any of his “bronze work”.
      2. And just how is it that you are an authority on whether or not “she” is allowed here? Last time I checked you were not an administrator on this site…
      I would appreciate it if you didn’t spread rumors on this blog…

  32. It seems to me that Mr. Fenn put those comments regarding the frogs as hints. Pre-hispanic, long-life and fertility symbols. I still contend that the treasure is somewhere close to the Manby Hot Springs. All hints Mr. Fenn has given have to do with Manby’s life, and I do not think those are coincidences. The name that was given to the hotsprings by ancient people was wa-pu-mee , and guess what it means. It means water of long life. RC

    • Thanks for mentioning Manby Hot Springs, Taos, NM. It’s one of those places that I have not gone to yet, and had not heard of. One way to it is right off of the Taos Regional Airport. Since FF would have flown out of there at some point, maybe he stopped by the hot springs. I will too.

    • Regarding Manby and “supposed comment” by F saying he knows where manby is… I would suppose Manby’s in hell (given his history) *just my opinion, not trying to judge the dead.

      • Lia

        You are correct about Manby due to his life style . How sad
        Some just don’t get it and some behave horrible so therefore it’s easy for us to judge others but we know it’s not our place to judge. Right. I have been guilty in my life and I’m so working on that and looks can be deceiving
        It’s like seeing someone out there that’s looks like hell but yet that person is walking with Christ. We see the outside of people and not the inside. So it’s just best that we all keep our mouth shut except for ISIS we know where they are going. 🙂 !!!!!

        • Amy, exhortation noted. Starlight used to help keep me on track but haven’t seen anything from her/him in months. It’s so easy to get sidetracked in the throws of solving the poem.

        • Gey-
          I get asked a lot of questions I don’t answer. This blog is about the fun of searching for the treasure. I have a posted email address on this blog..if someone wants information beyond the scope of this blog they can always send a personal email, which would be the polite thing to do.

  33. Wow and wow….my brothers and sisters….The Poem in my own opinion has nothing to do with a gegraphically place north of Santa Fe in the Rocky mountains. Yet, the solve will bring you back. Put the poem on the table and think about why it lays there. I have read almost everyone’s post for several years now.

    Each night I finish but I am back to the words of your beginning. Never leaving this place, and going to the wood. I led all back before my tears, I did not want to go.

  34. Stephanie, told me the emails she sent out to forrest with much personal search info was sent to Dal. Not sure how this happened, but things unraveled from there.

  35. At times times this hunt has reached a fever pitch for many of the searchers and players here. Spending all their savings and earnings on a dream….A dream to find the wonderful treasure. When it gets to the point where you put it all on the line because you believe in yourself and than you have failure. Its a painful reality. Its such a tease this hunt.
    I am sure that forrest did not see all the aspects of what this could do to family’s out there. A lot of people are not privleged as he has been.
    Treasure hunting and disappointment is the “Nature of the Beast”
    Many will try, but there will be only one winner. So much more at stake than buying a $2.00 lottery ticket.
    After many searches…….I changed my plan…..I have been twice now to Yellowstone, just to think……Found some other treasures…..Not so much disappointment this way…..
    God Bless You all……Find your treasure…..everyday.

    Lou Lee, chased by Bears in Jellystone Park…..

    • FF website states quite clearly to search at your own risk…IMO if you choose to spend money on TTOTC that is your choice, and your responsibility…To try to lay that burden on FF is both unfair and unfounded. People make a choice based on what they believe, despite warnings from FF that the path will only be certain AFTER you decipher the clues and go with confidence…nothing will be accidental. Spend your money wisely, there are only so many bananas…

      • Michael, No burden layed…on forrest. However we all have to take the good with the bad when we lay out a wild goose chase!!!!LOL….We all are responsible for it. We are all players even forrest. We still Love him. We meaning the active searchers in this chase! Peace and Love to all.

  36. I’m just thankful that Forrest did put a chest out there for us all to seek. Otherwise I would have never taken a vacation or been involved in such a fun, disappointing, got over it, fun adventure:) !!!!!

    So thank you Forrest 🙂

    I have one more opportunity next year . 🙂

  37. Lou lee

    Darling everyone is a winner in this chase.
    We all have a great imigination
    It is a blessing to me that I have been able to chase this chest of gold 🙂 and so thankful that our adventures have been safe adventures 🙂
    I can assure u I will not step down a large cliff that overhangs I’m just not that brave , nor will I put my body in raging waters 🙂 lol

    Keep it safe 🙂

  38. Lou lee

    Although I thought I was going to die after climbing the mountain I climbed. I keep wondering and asking myself why did I go up when I was supposed to take it in the canyon down. Awe yes to see the amazing beauty that I saw
    And I thought well this is where u begin. 🙂

    Really, I thought I was going to die 🙁 it was tough .

    • Hi MB and Amy

      Just want you to know that my above comments are not related to me. I have not spent too too much on this hunt. I just know of some who have and are. Its just a note to maybe new searchers and in support of all of us dreamers.
      Personally we all have to take responsibility for our choices in this hunt. I have really enjoyed it alot and have nothing but respect for forrest.

      Lou Lee Chased by Bears in Jellystone Park. Be Safe

  39. There is a hotel in Eagle Nest, NM that has a page about the treasure hunt. It is interesting that that they make the claim on their “treasure hunters” page that the chest is hidden in NM.

    As of today, Forrest has never said the chest is in any single state. There is a map in To Far Too Walk that shows 4 states as the possible hiding place for the chest.

    I hope no one reads this “come-on advert” and believes that Forrest has made such a statement.

    And here is a site called “All Pro Dad” that also states the chest is hidden in NM. The comments are interesting and they do discuss the clues..

  40. OK, my 9 clues= line 3, line 4, line 5, line 6, line 8. Line 20, line 22, line 23, and line 24. The first 5 clues= latitude, the last 4 clues= longitude.

    Also, the 9 clues give you the elevation. I was going to search last week but work. Now, coming from so cal, in Vegas. Getting some sleep at the venetian. Will be at the spot tomorrow. Will post pics and search/solve later.
    And, like everyone else, I’m very confident. Have the:
    Latitude, longitude, elevation, zip code, 500ft answer, 200ft answer, blaze, wwwh, below home of Brown, and an answer for every line in the poem. So, with all this confidence, ha, I give it a 25 percent chance. ( that’s actually pretty high ).

  41. Dal – On 15 Oct at 5:00 pm Briggity stated the following: “He said once you’re there the blaze is obvious.” Evidently she meant FF is the “he”. I cannot recall EVER hearing anything about FF stating that the blaze is OBVIOUS. I don’t think he did. Who’s right … Briggity or me?

    • I was not speaking of fact about this. I read somewhere that Forrest said nothing about finding the treasure would be accidental. If there was a blaze marking the exact spot of the treasure, and someone saw it by chance (no matter how rare of a chance it might be), I feel they could ‘accidentally’ find the treasure.

  42. Ok. This is totally subjective but on a scale of 1 to 10 how hard do you think it is to find the blaze? like if you are looking for it 🙂 If you say (10) I give up. Would you like Fenn to respond? light up the BLOG now !!! lets go!!!

    • I would say 2 you will know it for sure when you see it being in the right spot 10 but don’t give up the poem will lead you there and ttotc book will back up the poem and we are all here to help each other I know no more than you but wow what fun putting a plan together and going to your spot and seeing that spot with and living in that spot for a moment in your life .to see , smell, hear, and touch your research even if failure it’s a win win

      • Maggie,

        There is a plurality of ‘blazes”, so to even attempt to try to understand Forrest’s ‘blaze’, would be fruitless to say the least.

        Consider this for a moment. If we were to look at the poem as a “base map” and added layers to it, something within those layers would reveal to us clues to the many questions we have about certain (blaze, wwwh, etc.) meanings in the poem.

        This may sound cryptic, but remember, the poem is supposed to be a “map” to the chest, and what do maps have? Layers. When you find the right location, you will see that the layers will begin to make sense and will reveal the truths.

    • I believe you wont find the blaze until all other clues line up, then it will be a 5 out of 10

        • If you really only need the poem, then you have to assume that he tells you what the blaze is. Or, maybe he gives you a ‘hint’.

          • I have mention before that I’ve read TTOTC chase front to back and in it Forrest hits almost IMO every meaning of the word blaze in the book. So does TTOTC has a safe guard on all the words in the poem for all its meaning?

          • The hint exists within the poem. No funny stuff necessary, no book necessary. He says hint of riches new and old.

            1. What is the hint for?

            2. Define Riches.

            But, this only tells you what the blaze is. You can only determine which is the correct blaze by getting the correct solutions to the previous clues.

    • So is Jenny warming up for Halloween – masquerading as Pieces of 9?

      The blog has either entered The Twilight Zone or I’m in LALA land today! Lol fun and games!

    • Hi PO9, it depends on when you’re looking for it. I think if you’re there at the exact right time, the blaze is unmistakeable and I’d rate it a 1. If you are there at the wrong time then it may as well be a 20 because you’ll never see it. IMO.

  43. So I went treasure hunting over Labor Day weekend, thought I’d share my thoughts and experiences.

    My best theory, which I still maintain, is that the House of Brown refers to Malcolm Brown. No one seems to have made this connection, so I kind of hope in sharing it maybe someone can succeed where I failed. Brown is specifically capitalized in the poem, which is one reason why I think it refers to a person. Why Malcolm Brown, you ask?

    Brown spent most of his life in Taos, NM, which is just over 50 miles north of Sante Fe. Like Fenn, he is a former fighter pilot, as well as a noted outdoors man. While Fenn was an art dealer, Brown was an artist. The odds of those two crossing paths on at least one occasion seem high (Fenn may have even sold Brown’s art). Malcolm Brown is additionally the most well known Brown in the rocky Mountain area (except for the Molly Brown House, although that location seems extremely unlikely). Finally, Malcolm Brown’s life’s work and crowning achievement (in his own eyes) was the last house he build and the house he died in. Today, that house is called the SpringWild Lush. More information on Brown and SpringWild Lush are in the following links.

    So my theory is that the House of Brown is the SpringWild Lush. True to the poem, if you’re going to explore the area, using the ample parking just below the now-Bed and Breakfast is basically your only option to park (IE, put in). There are a couple of trails from here leading into a wetland, and sure enough it’s no place for the meek. It is impossible to explore without going through waist high waters, and navigating through thick brush; to me, it fits perfectly with “no paddle up your creek;” heavy loads could refer to the your soon-to-be mud-caked shoes. Should anyone actually take my advice, I’d be shocked if you didn’t agree that this area fit extremely well with the second half of the poem.

    And what about the first half? I have a few ideas. I think Warm Waters could refer to the Rio Grande; of the major water sources in the Rocky Mountains, the Rio is the warmest, and it indeed halts in southern Colorado. The largest canyon nearby is the Rio Grande Gorge – and should anyone decide to take this journey, the sight of that alone is worth the trip. From there, the House of Brown is about 20 miles south – just a bit too far to walk. Alternatively, from a fishing perspective, New Mexico classifies their waters as warm or cold, and a litany of fishing sites list the Taos area specifically as “where warm waters halt” (look it up if you’re unsure). Either way, I read the poem as though you’re following the “warm waters” the whole way until you “put in”; the wetland area here is a direct offshoot of the Rio Grande. So I think this has to be the area.

    I mentioned that my trip wasn’t “successful.” I was only able to get off work for Labor Day weekend, and it was a 2500 mile drive each way, so I really had only about half a day to actually explore. I spent hours in this small wetland area looking for a trail marking (my interpretation of blaze) without success, but someone with more experience than me would probably do a much better job – I could have walked around the treasure 10 times and not even known.

    But I still think this is where it is! And since I haven’t seen anyone else make the Malcolm Brown connection, I wanted to share my thoughts. Should anyone go there and find it, I don’t expect any reward or anything – my journey was it’s own destination, and I had a great time.

    More Pro Tips for anyone who might take this journey: the owners of the now-Bed and Breakfast are some of the nicest people you’ll ever meet. You could try and explore on what is almost surely their property ‘on the sneak,’ but I sincerely doubt they would have an issue with it if you asked them (I told them I was doing research on wetlands).

    Malcolm Brown essentially donated this property so long as it would be “creating a place of peace for all” (the actual wording is different, but I don’t remember exactly how it went). Therefore, it’s likely to fulfill Fenn’s criteria of lasting a long time; if Fenn and Brown did know one-another, hiding the treasure there could have been discussed before Brown died; furthermore, Fenn would know of the current owners, and may have chosen this location as opposed to federal lands so that the finder of the treasure could keep it.

    More Pro Tips: park nearby if not you’d rather not park at the SpringWild Lush. Many of the homeowners nearby have big dogs, and most of them are unchained. Also, and this goes with anywhere you explore in the Rockies in all likelihood, there are rattlesnakes and probably other kinds of snakes. Being from the East, I never see wild snakes, so to those of you who frequent areas like that, it probably won’t be surprising. Lastly, quicksand. I’ve never seen actual quicksand before, but walking back to my car (I was the guy who parked almost a mile away and had to avoid dogs) I lost a shoe in quicksand. So just be aware of that.

    Anyway. I hope this helps someone or maybe someone just finds it interesting. Happy hunting!

    • I came to the same solve and took a holiday at Malcolm Brown’s home to search the area. What a wonderful place. I too was very much convinced this was the location. From what I was able to read about Malcolm, he seemed like a very special guy and someone that Forrest undoubtedly would have crossed paths with and connected with over the years. As an artist, writer, and pilot they had much in common and everything pointed in this direction for me from within the poem and Fenn’s comments.

      It is not an easy area to search, essentially a marshy swampland with very thick vegetation. I searched extensively for many days and felt I was able to rule out what I felt were any potential blazes near the house and searched a bit further upstream. But its insane up there as you get beyond the Brown property.. with dogs, continual barbed wire to hop and water up to your neck in areas. For awhile I was thinking, man, I underestimated “No place for the meek”! but then realized there was no chance Forrest made it very far upstream in these conditions nor would he encourage people into this mess. In the end it took a lot for me to accept that the treasure likely was not here because I was so certain of it. But I know many of us have been there :).

      The one thing that I questioned (after failing to find it) was whether or not Forrest would in fact drop the treasure on his property.. Not necessarily over property laws, but would he in fact think so highly of Malcolm or this location that he would put his treasure there and say he’d lay his bones there… It’s a beautiful place and Malcolm seemed to be an incredible person and it fits thematically with his intentions for this home in many ways…but saying he would put his bones here is such a heavy statement given all of the places Forrest has been in his life. And had Forrest felt so strongly about this location or Malcom, I felt others surely would be on to it or recall his connection to this Brown as the home seemed to be a hotbed for artists and very community oriented over the years…. but who knows, the special place is for Forrest to decide. Its definitely a special place and a special Brown.

      After searching extensively and eventually ruling out the creek area near the property, I thought perhaps this was still the HOB and just marked the creek itself… perhaps it was in the creek a bit further from the house than I’d expected. So I searched the creek in both directions even further, much more interesting areas to hide a treasure miles away on this stream, but for me the poem fit that it should rest closer to the HOB.

      Since then I’ve had 2 other places that I’ve liked just as much with just as much conviction. The brilliance of his poem.

  44. Hey JC

    I like classic country 🙂

    Patsy Cline

    I go out walking after Midnight out in the moonlight 🙂 !!!!!

    • Amy, Forrest penned that song for Patsy (c. age 10) while doing his after midnight deep thinking in the cemetery

    • So my “it”
      Take “it” down
      So yes the ending is just the beginning 🙂

      Right 🙂 maybe

  45. I’ve explained why I think stanza 1 and stanza 5 are related, and in those verses Forrest tells us why, when ands what he did.

    It’s a simple and unifying explanation for ALL his words; and nothing is stretched to fit.
    I’d like to underline again the words “SO WHY IS THAT I MUST GO” Can you hear it?
    I can relate… it’s my kid asking why go to bed at 8:00pm 🙂 Give it to a child, right?

    And of course we have “LEAVE MY trove”.
    Notice “leave” instead of “hide/place” and “my” instead of “the”. It surely seems like he’s leaving behind something of his.
    These two verses convey a feeling of sorrow, and they go hand in hand, if you will, with “now I’m weak”.

    Having said that, if one accepts this as a likely explanation, then of course one should focus his searching efforts on New Mexico. During his cancer treatment, I suppose that he had to hang around Santa Fe, so chances are that “in there” it’s somewhere close enough; driving to and fro in a day.

    All of the above are suppositions, but… there is a BIG CLUE that he gave us time and time again:
    So why doesn’t he keep it but leaves it for all to seek? Because fate threw a miraculous wrench in his plans and he stayed very much alive; in the end, everything comes full circle.

    Let’s move on with the ramblings.
    “So hear me all and listen good”
    My take – it’s about water / waterfall. Once you get close you have to listen, and what is most likely to continuously hear in the woods? And that goes together with “worth the cold” as we have to get into the water (that’s why I said previously that he wandered “in there” while fishing – maybe behind a waterfall).

    “If you are brave and in the wood” It seems that this one gives headaches to a lot of people… well, there is one pill for that in form of rhetorical questions:
    If you’re not in the wood(s), where are you? And when you stay out of the woods, are you brave?

    So here is my interpretation: you have to put yourself in a little predicament in order to get to the chest.
    (Perseverance – to get across a wire fence… that along with Stout Hearted Men and Forrest falling down twice trying to get through the wire fence). That’s it for now.

    Ah, one more thing: “If you’ve been wise and ‘began constructing’ the blaze”. Sounds like architecture to me 🙂
    Maybe we are wise if we construct the blaze ourselves, not find it in the field… therefore- lines on a map.

    • I have this idea that you have to brave the wood, meaning go into the wood a certain distance and the distance is specified by an exact number. That figure or number is represented by a word in the same stanza and some may discount it because if they know the word then they are thinking area rather than distance and one doesn’t translate well to the other. But…….area of a square or a rectangle is length times the width, so what if the searcher is meant to brave the wood the length of the square or rectangle and then turn either to the left or to right and then go the width? The area would then be represented.

      • *••*

        After midnight, with George’s words fresh on my mind, I drove to Mummy Cave. The night was so black that the snow-covered ground offered little moderation. With a small light as my only companion I climbed up and in, and sat on my rock against the back wall. In the lonely silence nothing was moving but the wind that whispered its way through the trees, down the river, and past the cave.

          • Sounds like Forrest is absolutely fearless and seeking illumination or guidance in the dark. He often references the ancient past and man in need of guidance so as not to repeat past atrocities. In that scrap book he also references the elements of earth, air, fire, and water. Does he really do these things, [go to a cave after midnight] or just messing with us? I need an RC cola and some penny candy to watch “The Voice” – a little reality I can taste and hear 🙂

    • very interesting.

      regarding lines on the map, I had worked on solves with this being the blaze. I had constructed a pretty good ‘X’ on the map with points being clues.

      then I saw this quote on mysterious writings: ‘It’s been suggested that Forrest Fenn as said, “you don’t even need a map…just the poem”.

      so I asked Forrest if this was true and he replied: ‘You don’t need a map if you can figure the clues without it’

      • Evil,

        I’d be careful of how you handle that answer from him. He is a really tricky guy.

        Saying that if you can figure it out without a map, isn’t the same as saying you don’t need a map.

        • GG – Agree with you 100%. Considering f has told us that “Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map”, why do people make arguments not to use those things?

          Apparently some aren’t hearing him at all nor are they listening good.

  46. Well I’m have come to a conclusion today 🙂
    That my It
    My blaze
    My wood
    Is all the same 🙂

    What do u think ???

  47. HINT:

    “When war is rife, and danger’s nigh,
    ‘God and the soldier’ ‘s all the cry.
    When the war is o’er, and the danger righted,
    God is forgotten, and the soldier slighted.” *

        • uhm, let’s give this some thought. Both Dal & Steph have made a good 50 trips, every time convinced they had THE solution. Fenn has basically said it’s not far away from a roadish area. IMO wash, is simply that- a place where warm springs confluence with a cooler body of water. It’s nothing contrived, so don’t force the clues, try ordering a full scale map online, I can’t seem to get my folded back up

        • I was searching last Nov. in the Rockies and the weather was great! However higher up, was snow. Like 6 thousand and above.
          Now I thought I read that forrest just told hunters to wait for spring. Something like this.

          So….if forrest hinting that it is higher up and dont bother now?
          Watcha thinkin????

  48. HELP someone!!

    Could someone please help me reconcile these seemingly contradictory statements.

    Moby Dickens book store.

    Paraphrase of Forrest. When asked if a kid would have a chance at finding the chest. Forrest said something like why not kids are more agile and have better eye site.

    Mysterious Writings I think.

    He said the person that has solved the poem would just walk to the chest with a smile on there face.

    Maybe I’m reading this wrong but walking and (agile) are different. I’m scratching my head. Anyone?

    • Maggie-
      I believe this is an area where many people get into trouble when listening to Forrest. Folks often hear things he did not say..or likely did not mean..
      If we assume your two paraphrases are accurate, to me, there is no contradiction what-so-ever.
      Let me explain-
      First your non-quotes from Forrest-
      1. “When asked if a kid would have a chance at finding the chest. Forrest said something like why not kids are more agile and have better eye site.”

      2. “the person that has solved the poem would just walk to the chest with a smile on there face.”

      and then you said-
      “Maybe I’m reading this wrong but walking and (agile) are different. I’m scratching my head.”

      In my reading these are not contradictory statements at all. I think it’s pretty well accepted that, in fact, kids are more agile and generally have sharper eyesight than older adults who often have sore backs and knees, less feeling in their fingertips and blurrier vision in aging eyes.
      Note that he did not say these were skills necessary to find the chest..In statement number 1 he just said kids are better at agility and have better eyesight than older folks..That’s a general truism…
      and we all know that if you are outdoors looking for something..these are good traits to have..

      In the second statement he says that a person could walk to the chest…
      He does not exclude an agile and sharp visioned kid…why couldn’t they also walk to the chest with a smile?

      and in my opinion the reason they would just walk to the chest with a smile on their face is because they figured out where the chest is at and are heading to it with Forrest has said is the most likely scenario..

      So I see no contradiction..
      He does not say you need to be agile and have sharp vision..
      He just says that kids have those two traits…
      He does say you can walk right up to it..
      and I imagine if you’re a kid you might see it sooner and get their quicker than I would..
      But that doesn’t mean I won’t get there..


      • Dal, I certainly see your point. I agree this does seem to be a sticky point with many–myself included. Do you think that his use of the term “walk” would exclude the sport of bouldering. By that I mean any kind of rock climbing etc that would not technically be walking.

        • For goodness sakes Maggie..a 79 year old took that chest to it’s hidey spot..
          I don’t think you need any skills a 79 year old man in good physical and mental condition would not have..
 rappelling a likely scenario?..I don’t think so..if you do then I don’t think you are familiar with Forrest’s skill set..
          Bouldering??..I think not..but it depends on the difficulty of the boulders I suppose..
          But in my mind bouldering is a young person’s sport..once your hips and ankles become brittle…even a short fall on rock is crippling…perhaps fatal if you are “alone”.
          Which of these skills do you think Forrest has?
          1. Mountaineering?
          2. Fast moving and slippery stream walker?
          3. Technical rock climber?
          4. Cave and tunnel explorer?
          5. Gymnast?
          6. Rope and line expertise?
          7. Fear of the unknown?
          8. Quick and easy acclimation to high altitudes?
          and on…and on..

          There are skills on this list that I think he has…some I don’t think he had at 79 and many others that folks sometimes attribute to him that seem doubtful to me.


          • Ok ok I get you, but just maybe one of our weaknesses is underestimating his skill set…that laugh after he hid it always nags at me. Anyway thanks Dal. Always insightful.

          • One other consideration that is so often overlooked is that at that time Forrest was ill and not expecting to live very long.

            It was later that the cancer went into remission.

            “Tired now weak.”

    • Maggie, I am still catching up reading the blogs. I go back and read all the comments from the beginning of all the blogs. Your comments caught my eye.

      I have a spot that I visted several times now. Your questions is making me think hard and for me it relates to the first stanza. The first stanza I have thought from time to time was that I am standing right there with where the chest his hidden. The rest of the poem takes me to a place to take or get the rest of the directions.

      Thanks for your post.

      Indian Scout and a Saint

  49. I’m so alert Maggie I’m full of positive energy so I can move quick I’m such a lively person 🙂
    So walking with a smile on their face well that person will have confidence so why move quickly just take your time:)

  50. Two chimps were in the jungle . A rack of bananas fell from the tree . The young chimps says Lets run down there and get one of those bananas . The older chips says how about we walk down there and get all of them. Grab every Banana .

    • Woody that’s great! 🙂 So, wood it be safe to say this walk has no incline? Are climbing and walking the same??

          • Wood, I confess I must be missing something here–when someone says walk to the treasure with a smile on their face… that implies ease with me… yet the poem says no place for the meek… brave and in the wood and your effort will be worth the cold.

    • brig-
      That specific area..along the Firehole Canyon has been searched by thousands..The falls…the cave on the other side..the swimming hole..

      But the most important questions to ask are-
      If that is a viable location for the chest to be hidden…
      1. How do you get there…ie where is your WWWH and etc to lead you there?
      2. How do you figure out the exact location…where is the blaze??

      I think it’s a mistake to just pick a place at random and assume it’s where the chest is hidden…
      Although hundreds..perhaps thousands do just that..and Forrest has said that we must start at the beginning..and has cautioned folks on this blog for starting in the middle of the poem… my opinion..and apparently Forrest’s opinion..start at the beginning..and build your trail to the treasure..If you don’t have a viable WWWH location then you are just going out for a walk in a really pretty place..

      Nothing wrong with that…but I figure a person would be delusional to think they could find the chest without following the directions…

  51. One thing to remember is that while FF says the poem leads right to it, HE knows where it is.
    It’s kind of like taking a pencil and tapping out a tune with it. To you, sounds exactly like “Mary Had a Little Lamb” but to everyone else, it’s just tapping. Until you tell them what song it is. (try it)

    I mean, with all the searches that have been done in the last 3-4 years, of course, people will have been close, but it is probably no where near where people think it is.

    And maybe it’s not even in the mapped area. Like most “Lost Treasures”, they are probably no where near the story says they are.
    Since most Lost Treasure stories are, Mr “I know where the treasure is” told me right before he died in my arms where the treasure is. Do you really think I am going to say where he told me?

    Heck no, probably opposite.

    My Dad growing up in the Denver area used to explore old mines and such when he was a kid. One day they found a real old bag of silver ore hidden behind some ruins at a mine. They took it to the Assessors office and found it was really really rich in Silver.
    Of course, the Assessor kindly asks the kids, where did you find this at? And they tell them someplace probably 200 miles away.

    So, mayby 1000 years from now, some hiker in the Grand Canyon may stumble across a little bronze box hidden in some crack on a canyon wall and end up knowing the full story of FF after reading his biography hidden in the chest.

    So, did he lie about where it is so to be sure it won’t be found for many many years?
    I doubt it.

    But…You never know….

    Remember, two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead.

    Once both are dead, is it now a mystery???

    Happy Friday.

    I still think its in YNP. 🙂

  52. I dont know if you read my post above, about searching, But what did forrest just say about waiting now till spring? I am sure I read this. I was in Montana last week and the snow was still very very high up, the weather was perfect for hiking. What do you all think? Is forrest saying its too high up right now to hunt in a way? You know I think its pretty high up, because he said to searchers who were at the very top that he was worried about, he said its high but not that high….pretty much. I do listen to forrest.

    • Lou Lee, IMO… where I know the TC to be, well, I will be waiting until spring. The area is covered in snow and so my search is off until around mid June (give or take three days, you decide which). I just don’t want to go in there with ice picks and snow shovel and snow boots and snow boots and I’d have to leave my Dottie behind. May will be the earliest, I believe. If f said to wait, I wouldn’t be surprised.

      • Hello, Slurbs. One helpful thing that I’ve discovered is the use of a wheelbarrow. Most people would never think of that or realize how helpful a wheelbarrow can be. I have one that I bring with me when I go looking for treasure. You never know when you’re going to find a really BIG meteorite…or something. In fact, it used to be black and I painted it a nice “desert sand” color. Why? Well…we don’t need any nosy rangers asking questions like, “What are doing out here in the middle of nowhere with a big, black wheelbarrow? (Answer: None of your business…have a nice day…move along…Sir.)

        Like Oscar Meyer wieners my wheelbarrow is very dear to me and even has a first name. His name is WALDO. No joke. Why? Because when I walk away from Waldo to search around I always end up asking, “Where the hell is Waldo?” and “Whose genius idea was it to paint Waldo a desert sand color?” 🙂

        And, Slurbs…IMO…it helps to be optimistic…and what’s more optimistic than bringing a friggin’ wheelbarrow? 🙂

  53. I did not hear him say to wait till spring. If you have that quote show it please, because I don’t believe it is accurate. I do know that he said at an event last year October that said he could go right to it and at that time there was definite snow in some areas to make it unreachable unless you had a snowmobile and a great deal of guts.

    • Dave, I thought he said something about waiting till spring. Did not know what it was for sure, but I was just asking if anyone knew what he said for sure. Some people get all buggy on here, when asking a question, or trying to find out if anyone knows what he said. No harm….

    • That’s a good question, Mark. I was thinking more like a dam…like where waters “halt”. Just a thought.

      • I am pretty sure…Forrest commented on the dam thing….and sounded like he ruled it out.

      • Does that mean the TC is not associated with any structure or the POEM, i.e. chase in not associated?

        • Structure… in out house, for sure he would not involve a out house. this is a special special place to him. Its the end of his rainbow among other things.

  54. “And hint of riches new and old.” Why the word ‘hint’? We know that there is a chest of gold and such, so that wouldn’t necessarily be a ‘hint’, would it? So, should we really be thinking of physical ‘riches’?

    Supposing we consider his personal interests in history instead. Like an area where historical riches were both ‘new and old’, depending on time periods. After all, he does have knowledge that spans a wide perspective of time and history.

    Who can argue against the fact that there is a rich history all over the Southwest?

    • gg- My first solve was Obsidian Cliff- Native Americans mined that cliff for 10,000 years, for obsidian to use for arrow points. I think that would qualify for a hint of riches old and new.
      In my new solve I have discovered there are tiny gold and/or silver flakes in the creek. Perhaps a better hint.

      • Anyone think that his “hint of riches new and old” is maybe an old small native american site that no one knows about yet except him? Maybe something he discovered out there and is still untouched?

          • See thats the thing, he said “a” structure, a would be one. If he placed it say in the middle of a group of em, would that fall under “fennspeak” so to speak, i dunno, theres so many variables….

          • McElroy he said in or about (around) I think we need to look at Forrests philosophy here to gain insight into “where” reading through his material it is clear he loves unadulterated nature…so I’m going to say nowhere near a human contraption. Maybe say roughly 1/2 mile away…if you follow that train of thought you will find yourself eliminating map territory quickly,

        • That brings up a thought..
          Forrest, you said you went to San Lazaro on your birthday. How was it? Have you been back since?
          Any new and exciting finds?

    • I only assume he is not referencing history, because it would require additional knowledge outside of the poem. People in Washington wouldn’t know a lot about New Mexico history, and vice-versa, so I think that would place everyone outside the area it is hidden in at a disadvantage.

      I am not saying he isn’t referring to a historical location, but we know that place names change over time, so that would be a risky move, IMHO.

      I believe the hint IS for the blaze. That why he says ‘if you’ve been wise’. To be wise is to be made aware of something. I think he is referring to being aware that the hint to the blaze is right in front of you, in the poem.

      Of course, I could be another crazy crackpot hunter, who has no idea what she is talking about. But, I have taken him at face value when he says all you need is the poem and a good map. I don’t think extensive knowledge of history is necessary to the solution. Especially if he thinks a child can solve it. How much history can a child know?

      • InTheKnow,

        Ok, let’s assume you’re right and no knowledge of history is required. Don’t you think that he could very well be referring to prior history knowledge? It seems to me, and I could be wrong in my assessment, that most everyone on the search is looking at history of their areas. The alternative would be that once a person is in the area, they will see history there. Like the roadside monuments that explain what historical event took pace there.

        True, places could have name changes, but research of prior historical records would always mention the prior names of places.

        Being that I live in Washington, doesn’t mean I wouldn’t uncover history somewhere else. Especially if I am interested in learning all I can about that area.

        As far as I’ve learned from my own research, the ‘blaze’ is in the poem.

        Finally, don’t belittle yourself. We all are a bit crazy, chasing after this treasure. 🙂

  55. I believe on Jenny’s site under question “who would you tell?”
    He didn’t say wait, he said (paraphrase/exact? ) if I were a searcher I would keep it a secret til spring.

    Besides, snow don’t stop me. Sure, patience is fine, but not one of my finer disciplines.Hustle is one of my favorite words. 🙂

    • SHEdigggins,

      Have you considered, that the comment was meant for the ‘she’ that has already found the chest? Knowing that ‘she’ has it and wants her to hold off until spring to announce it. Obviously ‘she’ would still be following his comments.

      Spring in my opinion, would be the ideal time to reveal it. People would still be working on their solutions over the winter.

      Fenn could plan to have a get together then. Bringing people to Santa Fe for a sort of celebration.

      Just a thought, based on that comment.

    • Thanks SHEdiggins! Nothing stops me, weather wise….I have climbed mountains in the snow too. It when its deep, I cannot take my car to far up there.

  56. By the time the other chimp walks down there…This chimp will already have the bananas! Oh what the heck…I AM bananas!

  57. Actually, I search all the time for rocks gems and minerals mostly…among other fun things. Love road trips.

  58. Here is the quote:
    “With snow coming on the situation, this changes of course; in which case, if I were the searcher, I’d stay very quiet until spring.f”

    • thanks again Diggins. I think we should read this very carefully! and listen good. One thing that is coming to me from this and other things he has said and is saying is, that this treasure is high up, because he said it was. But not all the way up……He said below 10,200 with a laugh..

    • All that tells me is that Mr f is suggesting that “mother nature” is unpredictable in the Rockies…Especially for “city slickers” :mrgreen:

  59. That statement to me says it’s in a place that doesn’t have snow at the moment as it still is coming.

  60. Maybe there is no “she”, and maybe we read too much into some things and too little in others.

    • I have a theory ….. phantom was a he and Fenn caught a lot of flak for that so then he had to do a she thing.

  61. Well if Fenn can keep from slipping up the treasure maybe safe for a while…What happens if his mind starts to go? Not looking very likely at this point but he must have thought about this? I’m sure it is very personal….seems like a weak link and something that has to be planned for ! hmmm.

  62. I think we all need to have a (come to Jesus moment) if we want to find the true treasure.. Only he can give us a changed heart.. Then we will understand treasure is not something you bury.. It is hidden so it can be discovered by all.. thank you Fenn for your gift to Searchers.

    Remember ff saying wwh in many places in the Rocky Mountains, and ALMOST all of them are North of Santa Fe? That is because almost all of the Rocky Mountains are North of Santa Fe. Therefore it is logical that the poem has to tell us which place in the Rockies is THEE wwh we want. There are MANY possible meanings for wwwh. I have attempted and faied to list them all, so please feel free to add to my list, but first, let’s define halt shall we?

    HALT: n. A suspension of movement or progress, especially a temporary one:
    transitive v. To cause to stop:
    intransitive v. To stop; pause:
    intransitive v. To proceed or act with uncertainty or indecision; waver.
    intransitive v. To be defective or proceed poorly, as in the development of an argument in logic or in the rhythmic structure of verse.
    intransitive v. To limp or hobble.
    adj. Archaic Lame; crippled.
    v. stop the flow of a liquid
    v. come to a halt, stop moving
    n. the state of inactivity following an interruption
    v. stop from happening or developing

    I have my favorite I believe ff meant in the poem. So, now, lets define warm…

    WARM: adj. Somewhat hotter than temperate; having or producing a comfortable and agreeable degree of heat; moderately hot: a warm climate.
    adj. Predominantly red or yellow in tone: a warm sunset.
    adj. Having a color in the red-orange-yellow part of the visible electromagnetic spectrum.
    Adj. Slightly radioactive.

    So putting the definitions together to make a coherent statement, we get;

    Begin it where hotter than temperate, radioactive, or red to yellow waters temporarily suspend progress or movement and take it in the canyon down, not far, but too far to walk.

    Okay, where does this occur in the Rockies? Hot springs, the continental divide, certain mining areas, geographical placenames of red to yellow colors, geysers, waterfalls, and confluences, etc.

    Waterfalls. When water cascades over a falls it changes direction from a relatively horizontal direction of travel to a relatively vertical direction of travel, and just like in the cartoons, there’s a tiny moment in time where the water is neither moving horizontally nor vertically…it is suspended in mid-air; Halted. And we know ff likes waterfalls. So……

    if you begin it at the top of a hotter than temperate, radioactive, or red to yellow waterfall looking down into the plunge pool below, and you take it in the canyon down by bravely and boldy jumping like a child might, it couldn’t be too far down or you would parish…but definitely too far to WALK.

    But are we putting into the canyon below the home of Brown or are we leaping from Brown Falls and landing below it? From there (below the home of Brown), it is no place for the meek…so I believe the hoB is at the top of the falls, and is where we enter the canyon the falls lives in.

    The end is ever drawing nigh; we are all going to die, so don’t be afraid to take a leap of faith, because you will be getting closer to the end of the chase if you do.

    There’ll be no paddle up your creek, just heavy loads and water high, because you must turn around after your leap, face upstream, and go under the high water of the falls, which will feel like heavy loads hitting you as you disappear behind it.

    If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, which is the falls, (waterfalls are white aren’t they!) look quickly down to the bottom, cuz that’s where you gotta go for your quest to cease.

    Don’t take too long to build up your guts, just jump, or you may chicken out…this is my meaning of tarry scant with marvel gaze.

    Your effort will be worth the cold of the plunge pool below, as well as the falls hitting you as you disappear behind them. If you are brave enough to jump, and you are in the wood (perhaps a location clue?) then ff gives you title to the gold.

    So let’s count the clues to this solve shall we?

    1. Begin it wwwh (waterfall)
    2. And take it in the canyon down, not far, but too far to walk. (jump!)
    3. Put in below the home of Brown. (location clue?)
    4. From there (below the hoB) it’s no place for the meek, the end is ever drawing nigh,(don’t be wimpy…you’re getting closer, and nobody lives forever!)
    5. there’ll be no paddle up your creek, just heavy loads and water high. (Go behind the falls)
    6. If you’ve been wise and found the blaze (waterfalls are white and are also known as blazes!!) look quickly down, your quest to cease, but tarry scant with marvel gaze, just take the chest and go in peace. ( If you found the right waterfall (the blaze), don’t stare too long or you will chicken out! Just jump!! And take the chest and go in peace.
    7. So why is it that I must go and leave my trove for all to seek? The answers I already know, I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak. (location clue?)
    8. So hear me all and listen good, your effort will be worth the cold (you gotta get wet!)
    9. If you are brave and in the wood I give you title to the gold.(location clue?)

    So….let’s have it. What do you guys think? I got goose bumps thinking about it. This Idea fits with ff’s story of leaping from a bridge at night, as well as many other “hints” he has given…like throwing his bike in waters high, and a blaze being white, ff flinging himself over the chest, etc. This is a REALLY good solve. But finding the correct falls would be the key. I am sure if this solve is right, the correct falls is somehow communicated to us in the poem, but I’m having trouble with that part. I hesitated to share this…but I’m to the point now where I just want to know the answers ff already knows.

    • Lower falls, Yellowstone although jumping would be sudden death or should I say plunging.

    • Hi Michael,

      I believe we can’t take the majority of the poem literal. I believe the poem is a mixture of literal description and different meanings than the obvious. Forrest has said (paraphrasing) that he enjoys finding different meanings of words and their origin.

      I think this is the main reason why the poem is so difficult to solve because there are many many combinations of meanings (including literal) that fit together as geographical clues.

      If you dig deeper on meanings and origins of words you’ll find many uncommon definitions/synonyms.

      for example, the origin of the word ‘brown’ comes from the word ‘bear’ and/or ‘beaver’ — in other words brown could = bear or beaver

      ‘warm’ also has several other meanings like: ‘uncomfortable because of possible danger or trouble’

      so since you asked, your solve makes sense but I believe it’s too literal.

      and as for jumping into a waterfall I suggest you don’t do it. I don’t think I’ve seen a waterfall where it was extremely dangerous to jump in, even small ones. Most have strong currents and rocks that you can’t see.

      • I don’t believe you would have to actually jump in. If he made two trips, he was obviously able to get out of the canyon from the bottom of the falls to return to his vehicle and do it again. Just because the poem takes you in a certain direction of discovery does not mean you have to do it exactly the way he describes. Once discovered, other ways to arrive and depart would become apparent. If I tell you I climbed the stairs of the empire state building to hide the chest, you could use the elevator couldn’t you? And so could I…but maybe I want to take you in a more difficult direction for obvious reasons. FF says the poem is straightforward, and he wasn’t playing any games…this solution is a possibility that should not be entirely overlooked imo.

    • Michael D. wrote:Begin it where hotter than temperate, radioactive, or red to yellow waters temporarily suspend progress or movement and take it in the canyon down, not far, but too far to walk.

      Evil D wrote:I believe we can’t take the majority of the poem literal. I believe the poem is a mixture of literal description and different meanings than the obvious. Forrest has said (paraphrasing) that he enjoys finding different meanings of words and their origin.

      LOL! OK, I subscribe more to “the poem is a mixture of literal description and different meanings than the obvious.” (and heavy on the other than the obvious”

      So let me present a theory that apparently goes against most of ya’lls reasoning:….simply put, the waters are NOT warm!!

      Logically, it would seem that if warm waters have “halted” , or “stopped being warm”, then the waters must be cool/cold. So, what if ol’ Fenn is saying, that when the waters appear, they are cool/cold??…..lots of places where this occurs in the Rocky Mtns, and most are North of Santa Fe.

      *It’s not what he says, but what you think he said!!*

      (this would explain why only a few have gotten the first two clues)

  64. That’s good Michael

    Wish I had all the answers, bu I do not just yet still working on it. I feel that I’m close and hope that I am.
    The cold well I hope I don’t have to be in water my cold is something different 🙂

    • Mac, I have an extensive set of topo maps and GIS data (I use for work) on a laptop with a gps antenna. I don’t know if Fenn considers these to be “good maps”, maybe not; I don’t have the chest.

      • I wonder, cause i feel like theres a waterfall described in stanza 2, and most maps ive come across dont show most waterfalls.

        • Topo maps have all the waterfall names, and names of just about everything else along with landmarks. Keep in mind there are some waterfalls that don’t have a name or at least an official name so they won’t be named on any map.

          Take a look at some topo’s and see what you think.

          • well ive got the entire topo map collection from the USGS for the entire US Rocky Mountain area, downloaded from their website, no waterfalls on them, wonder why….

          • If I have time today I’ll take a look at the USGS site. It sounds like they don’t have the data sets with them. Mine have waterfalls, creeks, mines, abandoned mines, trails, utility lines, buildings, air strips, public/private land, and on and on. I have to turn off some data sets on some of the maps just to read because they are so jammed with data.

          • I remember using maps like that years ago. They were great for figuring out were old buildings were.

          • CJ, I download all the maps I use, some of them I have to purchase to get the latest information.

            I use a couple different programs to access the maps and create custom overlays and data sets. In the old days I had to import the maps into AutoCad so I could get them printed clear enough to use. These days you can overlay satellite imagery onto the maps and get some beautiful maps.

            I still print out the map (or use an old one) for where I’m going but I haven’t had to use one for a long time. The computer data and handheld gps have almost made maps obsolete. But I still like to have a map I can hold in my hands.

            The information available for download is almost limitless these days. There are a few free programs for download but they aren’t as sophisticated as the ones for sale.

          • Thanks Goofy. I too like a paper map to look at as I like to see a wider area than I can see on my laptop. I may have to invest in a few maps to look at the areas I’m interested in. Can you recommend a good map that has lots of detail like names of falls and lakes etc.

            With the on-line topo map I’m using, I have to click on the symbol to see the name and then then when I click on another symbol the first one disappears. I would prefer one that would keep all the names on the screen that I click on stay viewable on screen so that I can move the viewing area around but still be able to go back to look at older areas I was interested in. Any recommendations for a better on-line detailed topo?

          • CJinCA,

            When using the USGS map, what I do to keep various locations visible, is to click on a pin, and move it to the spot I want to tag and type a name for it. This way, you can see all the spots, no matter how much you move around or zoom in.

        • CJ, that’s the problem with online maps. It takes a lot of horsepower and memory to load a map with all the data layers. It wouldn’t take many users to overload a web server creating custom maps which is why they limit what you can see.

          I would recommend downloading some mapping software and running it locally on your machine. There are a few good free map programs. The free versions are usually limited because they want to sell you the “pro version”. But they might do what you want to do. Importing and exporting maps and data can get nerdy pretty quickly. The good news it’s getting better and easier all the time. It seems everyone wants a map these days to put on their phone, tablet, and handheld gps for hiking and geo caching etc.

          With the mapping software on your machine you can save the maps you create for later and for printing. Take the file to a printing service (if you don’t happen to have a plotter sitting in your dining room) and get the map printed any size you like.

          Here are a few online maps; maybe you’ve already tried them.

          Here’s a couple mapping programs for download. There are quite a few out there so look around. National Geographic has a free map program but they no longer support it. But it’s still pretty good.

          • Goofy, thanks a lot for all those links! I’ll start looking at them and maybe one of them will show what I want to see. Wish I did have a big plotter to print out a real detailed map I could pin up on my wall. 🙂

          • When on shipwreck searches I use a windows machine for navigation and for a very useable program that understands both Topos and ocean charts I loved Fugawi…A very sweet program with a very useful collection of tools…
            Topo maps for whatever program you purchase can be expensive…but if you look around you can find all the state topos for the four states we are consumed with for free..
            Google “Colorado GIS” for instance you will find a lot of resources for topos and many other types of very detailed maps..many of which can be used in a program like Fugawi..

            These days I use a Mac. Fugawi is not useable on a Mac..but if you go to the App store and search on “GPS Mapping” You’ll discover lots of pretty useless programs. I’ve tried dozens from the free ones to the costly ones and they just don’t make a Mac mapping program that is both simple and capable….go figure!!

            The best I”ve come up with is Garmin’s Base Camp program. It’s free and comes in both Mac and Windows flavors.
            Since I use Garmin GPS devices this program is compatible with all my GPS gear..However..Garmin’s Topo maps are VERY expensive..BUT, once again there are free versions available. I have free map sets for all the pertinent states which have as much detail as the USGS Topos. Base Camp is my goto program but I use several other mapping programs that require an internet connection and provide a wide variety of different maps that I can use to see a variety of different types of data..

            Mapping is fun..

          • Thanks for the link Dal. Garmin’s Basecamp looks like a good program. A little out of my price range though so I’ll keep investigating. 🙂

          • CJ-
            Ahhh..that’s for their maps..
            Which you do not need to buy..
            Because there are wonderful Garmin compatible topo maps with detail equal to the 24 quadrangle USGS maps for free..

        • Anyone use aeronautical maps? Seems like FF would have a lot of those. Think they have symbols or outline different than what a normal map would have?

    • Can’t speak for Mr. F as to what he meant by a good map but I have found the USGS maps to be very helpful. They are downloadable at the website and are layered extensively so that you can look at the regular topo map or layer on a satellite map, etc. You can zoom in a lot too. They also have old maps so you can compare current conditions to what was there decades ago. I am in a remote area so my internet is limited– its great to be able to download stuff instead of using google earth or other maps strictly online or having to buy them. Also, GLO maps at the BLM site are great. I’ve been doing some research about areas near me (Mother lode in CA) and the original survey maps done in the 1860’s are downloadable at their website. I found some great stuff on them that has me plodding through the woods and brush looking for any remains of old miner cabins shown on the original survey maps. I’ve found some old grinding holes used to grind acorns but no arrowheads (yet).

    • C McElroy-
      To get back to working on the poem.
      I’ve mused about a “good map” many times. To me page 48 in TTOTC is also hinting at using a map in the words ” if the owner gave Frosty an inch he thought he’d become a ruler.”
      I think (if you care) that a Good Map should have a scale
      (ex: 1″= ?).
      Maybe the words in the poem will follow this map precisely.
      The problem is identifying the one good map.

      I do not think many have forgotten about the chest but here is a thought. If I were ever invited to the great banquet table I hope my contribution to the conversation is greater than a search for gold. The chest is secondary to every else I hold dear. I guess I participate in this blog- because it makes me think rather than just wander aimlessly.

      I would like better aim at the chest than a Red Ryder BB gun. Have you noticed Red Ryder is almost spelt the same forwards and backwards?

      New keyboard-hope the words are spelt write this time.

  65. What did Forrest mean when he said imagination is more important than knowledge? Personally I think he is telling us to listen to the way the poem reads and to use our imagination with what we here. Any other ideas?

    • Ed, what did ff mean, “imagination is more important than knoledge”…

      1. follow Gin Nation on twitter
      2. drink gin to blurrrr the edges of your mind
      2. fly fish with midges – while drinking gin
      3. there’s no UU nor W nor ledge
      6. solve the clue [[edges]] with gin
      7. ? I’m having trouble focussing on the ?

      *.all in jest! Laughter is good tonic! Hope everyone is enjoying laughter and sunshine today 🙂

  66. I have always said that to me “Where warm waters halt” is Manby Hot Springs. Run off waters from the San Juan Mountains and the Sangre de Cristo Mountains flow into the river and when those waters get into contact with the hot waters of the hot springs, in spring ,in March the warm waters halt. I may be wrong just like anybody out there but I do not think so. It is my opinion and my opinion only.RC

  67. Halt always seemed like stop to me. like when Jesus halted the storm. Like, I would halt if I came across a big grizzly, Yikes… anyway something dramatic…big…important but abstract.. something worthy of Fenn.

  68. Don’t know if this means anything, but last night, saw a show with a bit on AE. There is an alternative theory and some evidence to indicate she may have landed on Gardner Island (hear that), and survived a few weeks there.

  69. Does anyone have any links to discussions about the Postmarks throughout the book TTOTC?
    Since the day of the week does match up with the date on the ones I looked at that you can actually read the year.
    And how the one on page 44 has an additional 039 added after the Monday.

    I am assuming this is deliberate for some reason and not just a “fun” watermark/background.

    I’v only been on this forum a month or two so I don’t have the history if there has been any discussion about these. I assume there has been.


    • Mark – for what it’s worth, here’s my opinion on the post marks. FF has said he’s logical, we also know he would have approved every page & illustration in ttotc. Looking with a high powered magnifying glass, you can find specific abberations in the round margins and also the dates, etc. Logically, a post mark leads to a place or an address. IMO you may find township and range data hidden; I also believe the 039 refers to a specific address – perhaps a street address or portion of a geocode, etc. *IF you know anything about 039, 390, 39 would you kindly share it? Two historical post offices also fell into my search area. Also, add up the zip code numbers in your search area, they may add up to 42, or 22 etc.

    • Since the day of the week does match up with the date on the ones I looked at that you can actually read the year.

      Mark, give me one example where the date and day of the week matched up

  70. I would like to pose a question:

    Let’s say you were cleaning out the old attic of your dearly departed great-grandmother. As you move some boxes, you discover an old treasure map. There are only a few words on the map, and none in a language you can understand. But, the map is not torn and you can see everything on the map.

    Where is the treasure?

    • I asked my daughter a similar question.

      Her answer: “Wherever the X is.”

      I would have Googled every word for a translation, then googled all of those words for their meanings, and then again for their synonyms. I would be as close to that treasure as I am to this one.

    • I believe the answer is, “Wherever you find it”…but it will never be found (by you) if you don’t look for it…or even just open your eyes to recognize it.

      “Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration.” – Thomas A. Edison

        • Willy Wonka also said, “We are the music-makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams….”

          from Ode
          by Arthur O’Shaughnessy [1844-1881]

          We are the music-makers,
          And we are the dreamers of dreams,
          Wandering by lone sea-breakers,
          And sitting by desolate streams.
          World-losers and world-forsakers,
          Upon whom the pale moon gleams;
          Yet we are the movers and shakers,
          Of the world forever, it seems.

          With wonderful deathless ditties
          We build up the world’s great cities,
          And out of a fabulous story
          We fashion an empire’s glory:
          One man with a dream, at pleasure,
          Shall go forth and conquer a crown;
          And three with a new song’s measure
          Can trample an empire down.

          We, in the ages lying
          In the buried past of the earth,
          Built Nineveh with our sighing,
          And Babel itself with our mirth;
          And o’erthrew them with prophesying
          To the old of the new world’s worth;
          For each age is a dream that is dying,
          Or one that is coming to birth.

      • I definitely have the perspiration. I have worn out a pair of jeans and a pair of boots already.

        • My iPad and printer have nearly expired with more miles on them than Dal’s Esmeralda. threw out my uncomfortable hiking boots after my toes learned that gravity never takes a rest. Light weight tennis shoes are what 80 yr olds hike in so that’s what I wear now.

          • I tried wearing tennis shoes, and I ended up with a toe full of cactus needles on my second search out. I always hike with boots now, but I went to 4 stores and tried on countless pairs before I found a pair that was comfortable, lightweight, cactus proof, and went above my ankles.

            I am a girl with small feet. I almost had to buy a pair of little boy boots.

        • LOL Intheknow, I would rather have that problem. My feet are huge, count your blessings. 🙂

          I think we all have begun to have come to the same conclusions about the chase. But I am not going to say what I think that is because there are so many who are just starting out on our journey. Its been a fine trip, indeed. 🙂

    • Ha!!
      “Dearly departed” my sun starved behind…
      That chest is out there ready for me to find it..
      and I aim to..
      Unless the feds find it first…
      But here’s the thing..I don’t see the feds looking in the place it’s at..
      In fact..I haven’t seen me looking in the place it’s at yet either..

      • Don’t worry Dal…The Feds don’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of finding it…

        When it comes to figuring out something like the poem, I am sure they just aren’t that bright…

        I think you have been there Dal, you just didn’t make the connection then…

      • That’s the spirit Dal !! The heck w/all the naysayers. The chest is surely waiting for that right person to retrieve it. If any Feds are out there searching, I am sure they are already lost or buried in a backlog of red tape and requisitions. They would be smart if they just wait in the wings and confiscate it. They were probably the first to search all of the outhouses…and called it quits. Good luck to all and be safe out there.

      • dal and all,
        It sounds like it may be worth it for me to schedule one more visit to shoot photos where the “yellow and purple flowers flourish” before the cool weather hits.
        Safe searching, and solid thinking, everyone!

  71. Dal

    Same goes for me i was just in the wrong area . 🙁
    One day that beautiful chest will appear . And it will be BLAZING 🙂 !!!!!

  72. On a whim, just thought I would google ‘deceased politicians named brown’ &
    Ron Brown stuck out, he’s buried in Arlington Cemetery, just below that is the Air Force Memorial. Hey why not…

    THIS IS WHERE IT GETS WAY OFF TOPIC, spend 10 mins reading the circumstances of his death, and the mind boggling conspiracy surrounding Clinton’s presdency…If the TC were to be holding some proof of dirty dealings [i.e. the clinton body count] you could never, Go in Peace

    • That would be 9 levels of conspiracy theory. But hey, I think the treasure chest and ff hold a secret, along with the treasure. NOTHING would surprise me with Mr. Fenn.

    • Read the Concy Wood story noting the illustration with the mysterious men and their fancy car with flat tires (lol, ff slept well). anyway, it reeks of govt. abuse or conspiracy.

  73. Off Topic:
    I think I need to clarify how this blog gets along. A few searchers have let me know that other blogs are reporting that I make money off this blog. That’s not true. There are no ads on this blog and that’s intentional. Ads irritate me. Always have. I wish I knew the email address of the guy who invented pop-up ads. I’d fill his box with complaints.

    I think I am partly to blame for this accusation that I make money from the blog. It’s probably due, in part, to my interest in certain bench mark numbers of hits that this blog has had. I am proud of the fact that we have had over three million hits. That at this moment we are getting between 7 and 8 thousand hits a day. Those numbers always impress me. But they don’t mean anything financially. No one pays me to run this blog. No others but me and Goofy even care how many visitors we have.

    But, saying that, it’s useful to understand that folks who run blogs talk to one another once in awhile. I have an acquaintance who runs a military weapons blog and there are two questions bloggers always ask one another when they meet up:

    1. Whats your blog about?

    2. What’s your traffic count?

    Being able to say that this blog has a traffic count of 7-8 thousand hits a day is pretty cool. That’s a very respectable traffic count, so I am happy to announce it.

    But it does not mean I make money off this blog. I do not. If I let the ads in I suppose I would make some money but I’d hate it..

    There is a metal detector manufacturer that has all but begged us for the opportunity to sell searchers metal detectors on this blog…no chance!

    Goofy has done a lot of work on this blog and it would not be here without his skill and patience. He works on it gratis. I can’t thank him enough.

    The blog costs some money. I have to pay for a server and a domain…that comes out of my pocket. No revenue is generated by the blog with one small exception…I sell Forrest’s latest book on this blog. So although the blog itself generates no income I do get a few bucks every time someone buys one of Forrest’s books from this blog. this site with complete assuredness that not me and not anyone else is making any money by your appearance here. Click away because there are no hidden ads and no commercial tricks here…You’ll see no pop-ups and no clicks that take you away to a site that sells snakeskin oil or used golf carts.

    However…if you should decide to buy “To Far Too Walk” by Forrest…this is a good place to do it 🙂

    Thanks everyone, for the bragging rights…

    • I think that’s why you’ll eventually find it Dal. Karma or call it fate favors the busy ones- if anyone deserves to find it it’s you – you’ve put the time and your own money in on this – I’m just glad I have a place to come to and read before bed every night – you know the road some of us must go down whether we like it or not and this whole chase is a great distraction for us- keep it up – we thank you 😉

    • I for one am glad that you do not have ads. I especially hate the new “expanding” ads. they are the banner at the top of the screen, that when you start to read the story under it that suddenly the ad expands and moves what you were reading down. So you scroll down to keep reading, and then the ad collapse back down and moves what you were reading back up. So now you have to scroll back up. I really hate those.

      I also hate the ones that start playing video with sound when you open the web page.

      Thanks for not having any ads.

      • I downloaded a free program called Adblock which has eliminated the pop-ups and other annoying ads. I highly recommend it!

    • Dal,

      I used to track website visitors on a daily basis, for hundreds of websites. Most people would kill to have the number of daily visitors that you do. 7-8000 visitors a day is more than ten times the average daily blog traffic. The only sites I have seen that could match your numbers had very large stores on their website, and they sold thousands of products.

      So, to have that many visitors a day, without selling something, is actually very impressive.

      Love the site! Hate banner ads!

    • Dal – I think most appreciate all that you are doing to keep the blog going. It must be an incredible devotion of time.

      It is important to stay consistent with one’s principles and you are clearly doing that by not including ads on the web site. I, for one, would not begrudge you the money you made if you did. So stay cool, understanding that you have the support of most of us who visit your site, and just ignore those knuckleheads that don’t know a good thing when they’ve got it.

    • Gee Dal, your story makes me want to buy you and Goofy a sandwich or something. Maybe even a Grapette and a small Fritos. Let me know if you need some help. f

      • Kitten…sorry..I mean Forrest.. (laughing in my sleeve)
        Thanks…I’d be honored to sit down and have a Grapette with you and I really want to try one of those Forrest Fenn sandwiches at The Loretto. Margie says it consists of pastrami with apple sauerkraut on marble rye.
        I know Goof has a couple questions about “clues” he’d like to ask…
        Hmmm…..I need to call the Grapette soda company and see if they will still give me two cents every time someone mentions Grapette on the blog.. 🙂

      • Maybe Dal could use a Bottle of Ripple or some other Fortified Wine in order to find the Chest.

    • @Fenn, I may take you up on that sandwich one of these days, it would be an honor and thrilling to finally meet Tesuque.

      @Dal, maybe we should have a talk about the “gratis” thing…….There is a method to my madness. Fenn was asked in an interview if he would have liked a treasure hunt like he has created when he was a kid. He said he would have loved it, and would have looked under every bush in North America.

      I figure my chances of finding the chest are slim to none. But you have the tenacity to actually look under every bush in the Rockies. You’ll find it one of these days by process of elimination if nothing else. When you find the chest I have some good news and some bad news.

      The good news: You are now rich and famous.

      The bad news: You are no longer rich; here’s my bill. 🙂

  74. Dal

    And if you were getting paid to run this blog then that’s ok, because You do such a great job.
    It’s really no ones business and really what does it matter to anyone else . 🙂

  75. Bye guys and gals…Headed out for a last minute looksee before the snow flies (if it hasn’t already). I found a super promising spot with my new solve…not going with abundant confidence…but lots of hope. does hope count for anything? Without it we may as well give up on life right? See you on the flip side…..

    Michael D

    • Hope matters and so do you Michael D! Best of luck. Bring back the gold and another great story.

    • Good luck to you too Michael. It would be great if you or Goofy could find the chest, then I could concentrate on something else and cancel plans for my search next spring. 🙂

      • Lou

        Good luck to u 🙂
        Have a great adventure don’t freeze

        Michael, goofy, Lou
        You are so lucky 🙂

        • Michael D in the lead…gog sneaking up fast .and wow folks we got three..look out here comes lou lee!
          B safe guys! Have fun!

  76. Muchos Gracias, Danke, 011011, in any language Thanks Dal & Goofy!
    You do an outstanding job with a terrific website and conduit for ttotc.

    When I find that chest, there are nuggets coming your way!

  77. Michael
    Good luck can’t wait to hear the new solve 🙂 be safe
    And Hope is always a good feeling:)

    Your so lucky 🙂

    • …and they’re off…gog and Michael d!
      Good luck guys…hold your jockey tight! Lol!:)

      • Goofy, best of luck! We will try to behave like children on the blog – in your absence. I mean well-behaved children.

  78. The demeanor has changed a good bit on Dal’s blog and I appreciate being a part of this discussion. You all are great

  79. Dal & Goofy, I don’t post much but read and ponder shared comments daily. I do want to thank you both for all your effort maintaining this blog. Next time your in Santa Fe I will be pleased to spring for a FF sandwich and Grapette at the Loretto. You have my e-mail and I live three blocks from there.

  80. I hate when you go to move down page and accidentally hit a pop up ad and display it…so annoying!!!
    Thanks Dal and Goofy, for making this site AD FREE.
    I just love this site and all the humor and of course the occasional drama but that’s just part of the Thrill. Happy trails!!

  81. The panacea of all clues: Brave, in the woods, blaze, ancient, singular, golden, between 5000-10,000 ft from NM to Canada, home to Grizz, moose, beaver, grouse…all in one tree. Quaking aspens. Oh, and worth the cold waiting to see them turn to golden.

  82. The golden age is over and we are moving towards a ice age of human brain underdevelopment and its all do to a lack of exposure to the raw elements of nature… Fenn may be the last BEST specimen that can intelligently span the gap between the age of exploration and microwave ovens. This is all (IMO) but I say it with a lot of conviction… 🙂

  83. I haven’t chimed in for a while, but I’d like to share some thoughts with everyone.

    I’ve followed Forrest Fenn through many of his stories and antidotes and have been very impressed with this man. I say this, because for someone to start his life from such humble roots and end up a millionaire is one truely amazing story.

    Many on this blog can probably relate to sharing in some manner or another, the experiences he has lived through. From eating wild birds as a kid, fighting for a lost cause, to building his own little empire from the true grit of a hard working Texan.

    Forrest has not only hidden a treasure of incalculable value for many, but has also inspired people to see a side of themselves they only imagined existed, but never experienced. Remember to take a moment to think of that, when you plan that next adventure out in search of the Holy Grail.

    In a way, although we all would like to be the one who discovers his treasure, I’m saddened by the thought we may find it. I say this, because I feel there will be so many more who will follow us that will need to believe in themselves, and will not have the inspiration of his treasured legacy to experience a “Thrill Of The Chase” in their lives. After all, isn’t that what Forrest really intended to do from the beginning?

    I realize he has recently said he doesn’t care if someone finds it now. But, I also believe that he is torn between sharing the moment of its’ discovery and his wishes to inspire the future generations. What do you think?

    • Thanks for sharing that Germanguy. Perhaps Forrest will have started a new trend. If the treasure is found maybe someone will be inspired to hide another and carry on the Quest…

      • Wouldn’t it be nice if only a small portion of the treasure was taken and the rest left for others in the future? It will take a very “Special” person to do that.

        • GG – I have enjoyed TTOTC and it reignited who I was once – young and able to explore without the obligations of a young family. It would be nice for others to enjoy the same. Hopefully Forrest will be alive and well to offer advice to the finder about his wishes. I love your idea, but don’t believe teams of serious, professional searchers (who do have an advantage over weekend searchers) will follow suit. So the first one or two altruistic finders pick one special piece from the chest and the greedy third person who ‘overhears’ where it’s located takes all.

          There has to be a way to keep it going forward. It would be interesting to hear ideas Forrest may have.

          • Start creating your chase now. Maybe a short chase to start and it may better prepare you to start a new larger chase later. Creating another Chase would be enlightening, opening your minds to new possibilities regarding this chase while at the same time prepping you for “your Chase”

          • Lia and GG,

            Interesting thoughts. With Halloween coming up it reminds me of those kids who come upon a trove of candy left out for the tricksters to take a piece or two because the homeowners were not home. What happens? The greedy win out….and my daughter comes home with the loot only to be scolded for being so selfish. Not sure how to avoid this human narcism. I trust that Mr. Fenn has thought of everything and this sort of thing can be avoided.

            Remember, two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead.

    • GG,
      You reminded me about those meadow larks, I was raised in eastern Saskatchewan and there were plenty of meadow larks and no one I heard of, ever hunted them for food because they are too small. What I did find interesting was the story involving the meadow larks. Sometimes he shot only 4 and needed one more scissor tail. Reminds me of the statement “Fate deals you 4 cards and joker and play whether you like it or not”, statement. There is your wildcard.

      Meadow larks have a distinctive black “V” in their bright yellow breast feathers. I find that link suspiciously close to the football “Pro5” story, amount other stories.

      The Wolf

  84. Come back Minerva, I want to study your pearly feathers and feet for a Halloween project I’m working on. I carve pumpkins once a year to remember why I don’t like carving pumpkins.

  85. Humor abounds! enjoying the minerva nirvana. She flew the coup. But don’t worry Mr. Fenn, the rest of your flock remains… talons hanging on the branch of every scrapbook!

    @ Lucky Gal: here are some ways man has attributed symbolic importance to the number 5 “V” throughout history:

    In fundamental order of numbers 1-9, 5 is exactly in the middle; the “V” is perfectly equal and centered on both sides – also represents a canyon down. PEACE sign for harmony and balance.

    5 members of the human body: head, arms, legs – chest or soul abides in the middle. 5 senses: sight, taste, smell, touch, sound

    5 fundamental Virtues:
    wisdom, love, truth, goodness, justice

    Greek Philosophers’ 5 principles in man: body, soul, psyche, intelligence, divine spirit

    Maya civilization symbol of perfection.

    Manifestations of Deity in the phases The Tree of Life:
    1. seed or source
    2. root
    3. tree
    4. branches
    5. fruit

    Divine grace:
    5 wounds of Christ on the cross at Calvary
    5 paths leading away from calavary
    5 garments of Christ gambled away by Roman soldiers
    OT & NT references to 5 are numerous

    IMO, Forrest is a man who has lived fully engaged in life and processes wisdom from the ancients and his own experiences on a deep, intellectual level. He has found that a life lived “centered” on internal peace and external harmony with men is more important than earthly belongings. He is also well educated on man’s communication through symbolism for thousands of years before language and the ability to read prevailed. “V” is important on many levels, expecially CENTER.

    • 42 a great post….

      I haven’t posted much lately for a reason of thought. I been having a conversation with my brother and it he has got me thinking. He is visiting me to do some training in cyber world and on the quantum level as well. Today, I even put my two cents in on his subject matter. He is a very spiritual person. He doesn’t go to church and his thoughts are open to the mind from every angel. Something he said got me thinking that is in each and every one of us. Hmmm What I said to him got him thinking as well. He went deep.

      Anyway, I voice my opinions to be heard but it has taught me something. I should never go in there alone.

      Enjoy your comments 42.

      On a side note, had anyone got any text of a file in pdf?

      I don’t know who it is but the file was very detailed concerning a place in Colorado. It talks about Phantom and Canyon. I haven’t read the whole thing because I have to do research on some of the words to better understand. Kind of weird.

      • Gey, maybe you can use some ofthe research. are you done searching this fall. we’re done for the year.pdf wnet only to brthr. anything else got lost in cyberspc. I don’t link notes to net. brthr cares about family, nothing there. weird – finally got my work project complete for tues presentation, but not a very thorough job due to family costraints; so say a prayer it goes ok. hard to fit both family and work.

        • 42
          I have gone in a new direction. All my notes and thoughts about where the chest may be located will be placed in a basket of the unwanted. To me the WORDS of the Poem has nothing to do with location. I have come back to the beginning to where I started searching….. reading the Poem.

          I miss Dr. Quantum we had a good connection.

          • Gey, I might miss him too if I knew who he was. Came on Dal’s blog recently. I too am placing all the old research in a basket and just sticking to my solve, and the poem in it’s purity.

      • Wow Gey. Sounds like you and your brother are stand-up guys and are doing some deep research that to me seems like it could go on for an eternity. How about using a back-hoe…LOL! Remember when KISS was the rule of the day.

        You have reminded me that when I go searching again…hopefully before ghosts and zombies rule the streets…that I should be sure to take a sandwich because your intellectual deep thinking is already giving me cramps…LOL! I always take PBJ for skiing which I do alone because some folks can’t keep up. Maybe you and your brother should try it. Talk about making it difficult…

  86. That reminds me Fenn said how deep is a hole? Well as deep as you dig it is the simple answer…. So, did ff use a backhoe. No but it would have been quicker if he had ain’t I clever…Start her up let’s dig. $$$

  87. Let’s say one of us hid a chest of Gold would u want it to be out there forever 10,000 years , or for it to be found in your lifetime.

    Me personally, I would love for someone to find it while I was still alive. Just think of the moment you would have with that special person. Someone who did their research, and knowing what the poem meant. It would just be amazing to meet that person .

    What do u think ?

    • Amy I think Forrest said 10% of him wants to help out searchers but then the other 90% puts the 10% on lockdown. Granted he Is clever but clever minds think alike 🙂

    • Amy, we’re just sentimental ol’gals. Of course we would want to meet the person and experience the exhuberation with them. But men are different and often have long range plans which left in tact benefit other generations. One scenario may be a private reunion of finder, forrest and then replace the chest in the same place with a portion of the treasure still worth looking for. His poem and tc will intrigue searchers for years.

    • I agree with you, Amy. If I hid a treasure I think I would want it found in my lifetime. That would be really cool.

      • JC

        It would be awesome
        Forrest isn’t going for it 🙁
        But that’s ok I like a challenge my mind is overloaded,
        I learn something new everyday 🙂

    • Ed, a better response might be, “10% of me wants to help each searcher find the treasure but the other 100% says no.”

      And to you Deb. I don’ t know what you’re smoking but do you have enough to share with Dal and Goofy?

      • If it makes her see you as a cheerleader with pom poms I’ll pass.……Someone else is seeing Dal’s face on Minerva today.

        I just thought we were getting a lot of weird comments lately. Those two pegged the twisted meter.

      • We have plenty of that stuff here in Colorado. I wouldn’t have to work too hard then to direct Dal and Goofy to its source…LOL!

        What a nice thought….making Goofy goofy. Some people can be hard to convince that thc solution is of value so they opt not to partake.

        You seem to be a man of experience Mr. Fenn, so I bet your influence and first hand knowledge would do the trick to lead them to some treats.

        Can’t wait to hear Dal and Goofies response to that suggestion. Maybe they are already PRO’s at it. Dal could take photos while Goofy digs in. Talk about a party. I would pay for admission to that one!!

        • Windsurfer,

          Dal doesn’t need to go too far for the “stuff”, we now have it available in Washington State. 🙂

    • forrestfenn,

      So, using your numbers, if you are comprised of 110% of desire in total, and 100% of you says no, then that means that .9090909091% wants to NOT help each searcher (which is an interesting number), but .0909090909% DOES want to help.

      And Deb was successful in getting a rise from an experienced trout with a frilly fly.


      • Hi Halo, I read it as – 10% of him wants to help each searcher but the other 100% (the searchers) say no.

        • Hey crazyfamily,

          My thought was that each searcher must take the TC “out” 100% on their own and that even if 10% of Mr. Fenn would like to visit that special place again and help each searcher, it would not be possible. Remember, it was quite the effort when he took in in there so now many years later might in fact be too difficult…even if he only helped 10%.

          • Windsurfer,

            I personally believe that he has already met that 10% in helping searchers find the chest. I’d think that the other 100%, is his way of saying “I hope not”.

    • I think ff has a pedestrian side but when it comes to his job of supervisor he is a strait shooting ref… That will prove true if we ever get to see the instant replays.

  88. FF you always were too good at math for us. Reminds me of the “15 years” comment….”It was 15 years from when I got cancer (1988) to when I hid the chest…15 years. That would be 2003 or so not 2009 ???

      • Id be very careful when making this assumption. Just because he says its already wet doesn’t mean its not buried; the ground seems to hold rain pretty well. Just more food for thought: Earth cant hurt it (might already be buried in earth, wind = tornado, fire…well everything burns if it hot enough). So saying its not buried is a shaky bridge to cross. Just my thoughts

    • Buried vs not buried ! …More interesting !!! How does the after the fact statements help? We know;
      Located above 5,000 ft and below 10,200 ft.
      The treasure is in one of 4 states: Montana, Wyoming, Colorado or New Mexico.
      Mountains, North of Santa Fe NM, are the Rocky Mountains.

      Those are just a few important references from fenn. So before we even consider Buried vs Not… we should ask, how the poem puts us in the Rockies, between 5000′ ad 10200′ and In one of the remaining states.

      Or maybe we can just pick a spot and hope the clues fit…I heard Kansas is a could place to search as well.

  89. Sorry to ask here but can someone point me to the reference where Forrest said something along the lines of it wasn’t on a human trail (man trial, etc). Thxs in advance

    • Don’t recall anything like that. Elaborate.
      IMO, I don’t think Forrest would send everyone out searching on an unmarked trail.
      Maybe he meant the TC is off the trail.

    • Hi G-5, it was during Questions with Forrest:

      Question posted 6/28/2014:

      To Forrest:
      Your words and actions say you are a friend and lover of the environment “more than most.” Do you follow Leave No Trace and did you while hiding the chest? ie stay on established trails. ~Buddy

      Buddy, I think you’re trying to get me in trouble but that’s where I am most of the time anyway, so I’ll answer your questions.

      You may as well ask me if I love the air. I don’t know but, I certainly am an appreciator of nature. “Leave no trace” is a rhetorical statement not intended to be taken literally. For instance it is not feasible for you to not leave a footprint somewhere or a dry fly snagged high on a tree limb, left by your back cast. But I agree with the philosophy of the phrase. I dislike seeing beer cans scattered around when I am fantasizing that I am the only person who has ever been in that spot.

      Generally speaking, there are places where one should stay on established trails; Yellowstone is one. However, it reminds me of the worn-out axiom, “If you ain’t the lead dog, the scenery never changes.” When I am in the mountains or in the desert, the last place I want to be is on a trail. Ain’t no adventure in that for me. There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty to where I hid the treasure.f


  90. Of course theirs a trail. A poem and 2 books. Could be a Spanish, trapper, Indian, explorer, homesteader, animal or just a straw trail. Guaranteed at least 1 shadow knows.

  91. Been thinking about Mr Fenns use of words. And his facination with what words may actually mean other than the standard definition. Did you know that bold also means “deep enough to be navigable by ship”?

    Ive wondered however about his statements that he tends to “bend” the meaning of some words, and it only matters as long as the person understands what you are trying to convey. Has anyone noticed this practice in TTOTC? I think “sniffering” may be one….

  92. Hmmm…
    Earth, Wind, and Fire. Perhaps a song would help us find the next clue:

    Far over the Misty Mountains cold,
    To canyons deep, a quest so bold,
    I must away,
    Ere All Saints Day,
    To seek the hidden chest and gold.


  93. I am going to guess that the treasure is marked by a blaze and when the snow hits the blaze is Just not very easy to see. White on white, how does Forrest say “the snow-covered ground offered little moderation” anyway if the blaze is white its going to be impossible to find when the snow flies.. A snowball chance in H*** is the way some would put it but that don’t hardly sound right..

    • Guessing at anything isn’t a very good game. Don’t you think 🙂 I’ll leave it at that. Adiós my friends!

    • hmmm. and here all along I thought it was GPR….ground penetrating radar…guess I was just batty.

    • bats also have the best hearing of any land mammal. You might say they can hear a whisper.

      • Speaking of bats. Did you catch those Giants last night? They looked like they were going to lose 424 to nothing at one point. Talk about head cases! How can a team display such hot and cold behavior? They need to schedule some time with Dr. Phil before the deciding game.

  94. As hunting season draws to a close Who thinks its been a good season. How many shots did ya get off and at how many yards… 🙂

    • Not good for me, I was not able to get out west. But on the bright side, I at least had the scrapbooks to look forward to.

  95. At one point in my searching a solve led me to a mountain. As I live across the country I had to resort to GE (ugh) I thought this was a pretty solid ‘blaze’ as a string of arrows (first pic has big white arrow on top pointing down to black one -then second pic on black arrow goes to 2 wide white stripe arrows- they point to a green arrow which zoomed real close in third is pointing to something tiny that almost looks like a tiny basket or bag hanging like Tarzan from the edge of the cliff) does anyone else find this neat? What do you think? Certainly the path wouldn’t be visible in snow though. Haha. It would be one heck of a blaze though, no? Even without the chest I wonder what would have caused these features…especially the white stripes. I’d love to hear some thoughts thanks! Here’s the pic…

  96. No place for the meek = Industrial Construction

    I’ve done it tired and now I am going to bed! LOL

    • homcoming76

      Industrial construction? Do you mean Industrial Revolution

      Just out of curiosity, how do you relate either to ” From there it’s no place for the meek”.

  97. “Ive done it tired”
    It only recently occured to me that “tired” could refer to Wheeler. We have often fiqured that Wheeler Peak above Taos fiqured into the chase. But, there are other Wheeler peaks, mountains, and places. Since I’m going to Colorado in a couple weeks I thought I would research what I could find up there. Check out the Hoodoos at Wheeler Geological Area

    Since I am going to Breckenridge I drive right under another site,
    Wheeler Mountain northwest of Fairplay, down road 9, then down Blue River . But along the way of off 9 I noticed a nice diversion. Montgomery resevoir. A nice fishing hole full of Rainbow trout….

    or I could just stop by Wheeler Junction at Copper Canyon ski area.
    copper is kind of brown

  98. There have been talk on where to start the search… from the poem. Some start at the 1st stanza, Others start at “Begin it WWWH, Yet others start At the question; “So why is it I must go?” All reasonable. We know the clues are in consecutive order. we know, Don’t mess with the poem, and we know If followed precisely will lead a searcher to the chest.

    So my question here is… can the poem be read differently then written to understand the meaning?

    I’m a believer that The poem is set up to be read three different way.
    1st – starting in stanza 1, which most do.
    2nd – starting at stanza 5.
    3rd – starting at stanza 2. which a lot do.
    Each time reading the poem with new eyes.

    This does not mean change the format of the poem… The clues are set up to be followed though hints from the start of stanza one. We have also been told to read the poem again and again think, analyze and read again. So If we start stanza 5 for example, The author is telling us why he left his trove, telling us to heed his words and our effort will be rewarded. [ stanza 5 – 6 ]

    Now reading the 1 stanza The word trove has been change to treasure. This leads me to ask… if treasures and trove are different, Is I different as well?

    This is not changing the poem as much as, an attempt to understand how to read the poem. Is “Start at the beginning” a place in the poem? Is “start at the beginning” a place in time? Is “Start at the beginning” more to the underlining meaning / theme of the poem? Is “start at the beginning” The blaze one has found and start your quest from there?

    I say it’s more likely all the above, than just a single thought. the poem is “straight forwards only if we understand the significance of the poem.

    We also have been told; ” it’s difficult but not impossible” Maybe there are Multiple understandings to the poem as well as multiple meanings. Understanding and meanings that may lead us full circle.

    Anyways, just a different perspective for discussion.

    • Seeker,
      We are defiantly on the same page . I would love to share more with you. All though I will encourage you to continue on the trove trail. Why? In one picture there was a key next to that chest. The second picture the key was gone, and that Chest closed.
      My point is I can tell you were on the Logic trail , this leads me that you are correct. The treasures bold, and the trove are two very different thing. This is not my thinking but what Logic dictates. Not honestly saying ine is any better . But every time I see a post form you I look to make sure I’m correct and I fine tune from that. Of course my Maverick is Fenn, and He is now my Sensi. He can put puzzles out all day for me.
      I would love it … I put the equasion of Dals age up… I may be off… But, I don’t think so… lol…

      20+9 – 7×3 / +13-6 + 8+8
      29 – 21 21+7 + 16
      8 /+ 44
      This on Dal is well , is Dal older then 52? Idk

      Peggy’s Birthday….. 29\(9×8)3-5(6×3)
      Let me know what ya think.

    • Mr.D

      My thoughts are that the poem may be written in stages or layers or Journeys [ which ever words you like best ].

      I believe the author is; narrating part of the poem / telling of his challenge / and giving hints in many layers for us to seek, All cleverly set into a single poem to reveal clues.
      This is they way I read the poem, anyways.

      But, if you like numbers, and if I’m correct, The capital letters used in combination with the understanding of hoB should be a fun task. The poem structure, in my method, is just as important to the Multiple Meanings of words and Phrases.
      The format of the poem can’t be change.

      I have sat here many a nights, clearing my head of all thoughts just to re read the poem. What seems to be a simple 6 stanza, 4 lines per stanza, 9 sentences with a total of 25 capital letters poem… is much more. My biggest issue is, some times it hard to take the blinders off and re read the poem with fresh eyes.

      Treasure vs. trove is one thing….I also see that time is important to the poem. Most folks see history [ as do I ] but I see it more as a times span as well. The “Where” and “there” in my theory is more of time than of a place, but yet still both. Which may help in understanding ” Not far, but too far to walk”.

      Feel free to jump in to add, change or challenge my theory. I’m always open to anything that jump starts the single braincell i ave left.

      • … No challenge . Your right, it must follow it’s path . I have to say I thank you for the Capital letter remarks. This will effect a lot of the structure of the answer, most defiantly. And your logic in layers… Also correct. I have a lot of work to do . To be clear this path is chopped out by a very smart man. This is a fact!
        I can understand the last brain cell thing. My head has not stopped since he opened it. SO! off I go … Where and When … Yes could be , but by injection of a earlier word in I do think it refers to a point , be it physical or metaphysical ,I will let Forrest dictate this one.
        Thanks for shearing bro.. Here’s a cool story I would like to share with you.
        The Golden Egg by Mr. D
        A man leaves his house to go find a golden egg to
        feed his children , because they are poor. So he leaves and goes and finds a egg and brings it home and shows the whole family what he found . Then he decides he will go again, so he doses and goes a little farther then he should , but he can still see his house. So, he finds a lot more eggs out here… He tells his family they will never have to worry again after this last time that he would go cause they would be wealthy and never worrie about food again . So , he leaves and goes out there again this time a little further, wow , look at all these golden eggs. I bet if I go a bit farther I will find a lot more…. So, he did. Wow here there were so many eggs that he would never be able to use them all ,or bring them all of them home with him so he grabbed a few put them in his pockets and turned to go home . Oh no, he couldn’t see his door which signed his way home , due to the shine off the golden eggs. So he walked too and fro and lost his way

  99. Hey Dal, I re posted on Scrap book two hundred. Funny That time you came out by my count 64. I guess Im on the right trail… Thank You again Sir.

  100. I just wanted to post this for Dal…

    I gotta laugh Dal Is 66. Dang it.

    20+9 – 7×3 / + 13-6 +8+8
    29 – 21 / 29+13-6 8+8
    8 / 41+7+8+8

    Peggy’s Birthday 29/(9×8)3-5(6×3) 3
    Im not showing the math I need to get back to work on this poem.

    Im a little slow . I honestly never made it to 10th grade. Although I did seek computer science as a Adult seeking a higher education. This I learned from Fenn ,and the woods Ive learned from Dal…. in the last two weeks. along with
    E=IF \ I/op1op2-1 E=IF
    (op1op2)/ -1 . (op1op2)/ -1
    /I/ op1op2

    The Maze on page 101 of TOTC

    The Moving Writ
    Move Wit
    Shall a line
    Nor all of it

    A like Fe Pair
    And A Throw Stare

    A Muezzess Cries
    “FOOLS” your there

    Strangers Who
    Before Us Through
    Which Iowed,too
    And now I also to

    How, read his book. Thanks Forrest. I have learned more then this trove of yours has in it. But, I still like shinny……
    So, I will be searching form here , until I can travel again.

  101. One of Forrest’s most revealing comments to me has always been “If the reader understands what you’re talking about, why does it have to be a real word”.

    All is not what it seems.

  102. Does anyone asked or know if Forrest ever said he was going to release the 1st version of his poem for the general public?

    • clues-
      I don’t know that anyone other than Forrest has ever seen the original poem. I was with him when a reporter asked if he could see it and Forrest said it was not handy.
      It is possible…maybe even likely that Forrest showed it to his friends…like Doug Preston and others. But no one has ever mentioned seeing it.
      At any rate, Forrest has not released it publicly.

  103. The Canadian Connection:
    I am not sure if many of your remember or are aware of the classic Canadian Rock band – Prism.

    I bring it up because prisms make nice rainbows and I like to think the Fenn’s Rainbow!
    It was one of my favourite bands growing up because they sang about space a lot and of course I wanted to be an astronaut when I was young.

    Some of their songs that suscpiciously relate to this chase are:
    1977 Spaceship Superstar
    1977 Open Soul Surgery (I included this for you Whiterock7/Jay A)
    1977 Take Me to the Kaptin
    1978 Take Me Away
    1978 Flyin’
    1978 See Forever Eyes
    1979 Armageddon
    1980 Mirror Man
    1980 You Walked Away Again
    1980 Cover Girl
    1981 Rain
    1981 Turn on Your Radar
    1981 Don’t Let Him Know
    1982 The Wolf will find it

    My solution has a very interesting prism key, so I was doing a little research today to bring everything together and I had to chuckle at how many of these songs relate to my solution.

    It probably does mean much to many of you but someday I will get around to explaining it all (legal stuff you know how it can be) but I thought I would plant a seed and see if any others can relate to this connection.

    The Wolf

  104. Let me start off by saying that this is probably wrong, much too simple and has already been searched. That being said along with the fact that I’ll not get to look myself, (have already went on many ill fated searches) here’s what I got…
    Assuming you have nothing but the poem…
    The first stanza I think is refering to time. Gone alone in time, keeping his secret in time, hinting at riches new and old…I think “it” is time.
    The second stanza is maybe saying to begin at time during ice age event, the glacier national park in Montana, because Begin it where warm waters halt And take it in the canyon down, not far but too far to walk. Put in below the home of Brown suggest to me that glaciers halted time in the warm waters and carry it down canyons. Brown Mt. in the park is where I’m thinking is HOB.
    The third stanza I think is reinforcing the whole era of time, as Meek could be referring to Meek fossils, from the time the glaciers were formed to the present, no more Meeks.
    The forth stanza talks about the blaze, I think it is Going to the sun rd, which is closed in the winter, it leads to Rising Sun wayside on the shore of St. Mary lake.
    Referenced by tarry scant with marvel gaze and go in peace. (The Mother Mary)
    The fifth stanza again talks about time and that he is almost out of it, almost to the end of your quest as well.
    The sixth and final stanza might be taking the Red Eagle trailhead to red eagle lake, an easy trail about 4 miles in length, the elevation the is around 4732 feet, but within a couple of hundred feet the elevation climbs to above 5000.
    There’s a little bit more to all this but I’m sure you get the gist of it. What do you think and has anyone searched around this particular area?

    • michelerice38,

      I commented on your post on “what is it” . As much as I like your line of thinking. “It” for me is the Journey. The question is, what journey? Time period is important to my theory as well. The use of words having past tense to present tense at the same time can get confusing on which way to see a sentence or line.

      Each stanza is Both past and present tense. Hints of new and old, have more than just one meaning, So when reading the poem try looking at it both ways. Just a suggestion. Your fossil comment was a bit of a surprise… that has been one of my meanings since day one, I was keeping that little tidbit for myself, but Nice Catch!

        • Michelerice38,

          I was wondering why “Brown Mountain” as your hoB, I have looked into the poem using some of your Ideas. Have you tried Great Bear National park?

          I only mention this because, at one point I thought of lining up NP’s with the poem to see where it lead.
          ps. there is no X…but one is used.

          • Seeker,

            I will check into Great Bear. My reasoning was that Brown mt is in Glacier park, which fit with my theory of ice age using only poem…Sounds like we may think eerily alike, I also tried different points trying to come up x on map, figuring the intercecting lines would mark location. Also tried 10 marks on map, using 9 of them to spell it thinking the leftover dot would mark the locale…

          • NP’s was just an early theory… It was more of forcing a hoB to fit. But that doesn’t mean it’s not. I would suggest and only for discussion…try not to limit your search to a single area, there is only one small area to find and that’s where the chest lays in wait. The poem area or even the hints in the poem could be anywhere.

            Food for thought.

          • You’re completely right, believe me when I say I have no definitive thoughts as of yet, the above is one of many that are all over the board and map, just like to throw my potentials in the water and see what they catch

          • Well seeing that you mentioned fossils before. Fenn stated … the treasure is not in close proximity to a human trail… Could be the Blaze is a fossil trail. or a trail of similar origin, if we twist it a bit.

          • thats a good possibility and fits in with the time theory…Have to figure out what “Brown” fossils are…just started this yesterday, need to do much more research.

      • Michelle, I have also used the Meek fossil but there are so many of them. He named dozens of fossils, so keep that in mind. They werent just found in NM also.
        Good luck, I like the Jemez too. 🙂

    • I guess my thoughts on this was based on a question of why he would even ask a question at all(?).

      • Because a question always comes first, at the beginning, and establishes a reason and a purpose. He speaks to himself and alternatively speaks to the reader.

        The position of the question in the poem also speaks to the questions of sequence, direction and time in the poem.


        • I like that analysis. He did say we would have to analyze to figure it out…) Now where to go with next I have no idea?

        • Halogetter,

          Would you refer to ” So hear me all and Listen good” as establishing a reason and purpose as well? Just curious.

          • Seeker-

            I posted a study of the poem in stanza order 516234, which creates a different context for the question that begins stanza 5, and that it’s a Fenn/Why stanza. Here’s the part on the 5th stanza:

            Stanza 5 – The FIRST stanza:
            About FENN (Lots of ‘I’).
            FUTURE tense, asking “why is it that I must go and leave my trove”. He is taking the stance that he has not yet hidden the chest in this stanza of the poem. Here is his big, one-and-only formal question in the poem:
            Why must I go and do this?
            And then he answers his own question in PAST tense.
            All about WHY he must go hide the chest (he’s done it tired, and now he’s weak):

            Stanza 5 – WHY:
            So why is it that I MUST GO
            And leave MY TROVE for all to seek?
            The answers I ALREADY KNOW,
            I’VE DONE IT tired, and now I’M WEAK.

            Following that line of thinking, “So hear me all and ingots lode”, I mean “listen good” (sorry), that line and the entire stanza read as a preamble to the “heart” of the poem, stanzas 2,3 and 4. Again, stanza 6 comes last, and that is obviously intended, but it’s interesting how it simultaneously reads like a poem preamble/send-off and also as a wrap-up stanza for the poem.

            So regarding your question, yes, I believe he establishes a purpose or incentive for the reader, whether understood as a preamble/send-off, or an offering of a bundle of hints to help with the clues in the the stanzas that precede it, or as the stanza that brings the whole poem to a close, or better yet, brings us “to the gold.”


          • Excellent, You have always intrigue me with thought.

            I would also like to ask if you think the poem has more than one starting point?

            As to mean, could the poem have different meaning at different starting points that work together in whole.

            Possibly coming to a conclusion that the poem itself has Multiple Meanings, not just directions and not just meaning of words and phrases.

      • How ya been germanguy?

        The question mark could also mean, that there is not enough information to make a statement. Meaning the author knows the answers… it’s up to us to decipher his information correctly.

    • RE: Article on Fenn Gallery
      Anyone with an interest in historical architecture and artistic architecture will really enjoy the 1978 Texas monthly article.

      Having personally worked in an art gallery, and studied architecture, my observation of Forrest’s gallery is that it took the vision of an artist with the craftsmanship of an old world artisan to create a warm home within a gallery – which fit perfectly into its environment. Really well done Forrest & Peggy.

    • Thanks for posting that article GG! It was interesting learning about how Forrest started the Gallery and the history of the building. I also enjoyed seeing the pictures of the beautiful interior. I don’t know that much about the architecture of the SW but I like the adobe style of the Fenn Gallery – it’s gorgeous! Forrest and Peggy did a wonderful job designing and furnishing their private quarters too.

  105. Connection to Hollywood….

    Has anyone ever watched the movie “dazed and confused”? Well, there is a scene where kids are trying to leave school early so they can sneak past the older guys trying to beat them up and they go up to their teacher and ask to leave early, the teacher talks about Vietnam and then the next scene was of kids sliding down a slide outside of the school window just like Forrest did as a kid….maybe that was based on Fenn’s experience in Vietnam and sliding down the slide outside of school??

  106. Clues from Philadelphia…

    The PA state flag/coat of arms which consists of a ship full sail….this reminds me of Forrest saying in TTOTC about all the people who died out at sea….

  107. I was letting my mind wander and I came up with the idea that the ‘canyon down’ could have another meaning. Down comes from a goose. Something goose. I found Goose Lake above Red River, NM.
    No, I am not being silly.

    • If you’re on that train of thought you want to explore the most famous question from catcher in the rye “Where do all the duck in Central Park go in the winter?”…pond freezes/warm water halts…migrating is a bit too far to walk and the ‘down’ beneath the ‘brown’ feathers keeps them warm and provides a barrier from the cold….but maybe it’s all just a decoy….made of wood…haha. Sorry. Couldn’t resist

      • Makes one think, The chest is not in close proximity of a human trail, may mean alternative mode of transportation. Two trips from the car in one afternoon, but where did he drive to? Folks want to think he parked in a parking lot and hiked, could be he park on a side of a Mountain on a 4×4 trail.

      • I wonder if a goose is the animal that f shot when he went looking for Lewis and Clark… Remember he never did say what that animal was. It must be important in my opinion.
        Maybe it was a goose or possibly an eagle. Any opinions on this?

          • Yeah, that sounds pretty gross to me, but I don’t think that’s it. On page 60 he says “we shot one animal I promised not to talk about”… maybe it was an endangered species…

          • check page 63…” I made some notes that might be helpful to any sixteen – year old geniuses who think looking for Lewis and Clark might be fun:

          • For some reason I think the animal he doesn’t want to talk about killing is a Bald Eagle. I believe it’s against the law to shoot them.

        • I’m thinking it might have been an eagle too, but don’t put much stock in my opinions. Reading the stories and trying to solve clues late at night is a bad idea. I have dreams that I’m flying off mountain tops with eagles at a site in the Andes mountains into a home on a ridge with 390 postmarks from the book stamped on the house. I search in Colorado, not Chile. Yikes, time to take a break and get some sleep. Those postmarks are probably red herrings anyway.

          • Lia, Yesterday I came across some information that mentioned Turkey Buzzards. That too could be a possibility. If is is, and I don’t think it is, that could be significant in one’s research.
            I just think that f doesn’t want to mention some things because it’s too important of a hint…
            It may not even be a bird for all we know… But for now, I’ll agree, I think it may be have been an Eagle.
            I wish more people would start discussing what they feel the reason is f wanted to do this TOTC. If we could figure that part out, we’d be a lot further along in solving this thing!

        • Well he did not deny it was a porcupine in this statement from Jenny Kile’s web site

          In The Thrill of the Chase, you mentioned the taste of a porcupine. What do you think tastes worse than a porcupine? ~ cooper

          Good question Cooper.

          One of the ways my father used to discipline me was to make me ingest a tablespoon of castor oil. That was a very effective deterrent and the punishment I hated the most. He saved it for when I did something really bad, like forge his signature on my report cards. The smell was terrible and I wasn’t allowed to hold my nose while it was being dispensed. But you can’t smell while you are holding your breath so I could do that and no one knew.

          Once I hid the dreaded bottle of castor oil behind a bunch of stuff on the top shelf in the pantry, and although I got a spanking for doing it. it was a morale victory for me.f


          • I’m not saying a porcupine wasn’t killed. I’m saying there was another animal that was killed that he doesn’t want to mention.
            And also I believer the word “Castor” is a hint. imo

      • What beautiful pictures and well written article about the adventure.

        Aren’t we lucky that some people are brave enough to venture into the unknown and generous enough to share.

    • Michael H, been there just this last weekend while hunting Big Game unit 53. That Goose Lake road is very rough. Nice old mining cabins along the way and don’t be afraid to go into the cave on your right hand side on your way up to the lake. The cave is not too deep into the rock. If you go up, I suggest an ATV (side by side or single seater). I you take a 4×4 truck, it better be high clearance and you better have your big boy shorts on because you might get scared of the steep drops on the side of the narrow road. Good luck.all of this, IMO

  108. Nothing silly about that interpretation Michael. I think that is exactly how to read the poem. Just like the Blaze could mean “fire” …what does fire mean?

  109. Like many of you, I lay in bed at night going over the poem in head. Last night this occurred to me. Forrest said not to mess with his poem, not to over complicate it and turn it into something it wasn’t, not a mathematical equation or scientific journal, or code. But in the cover of ttotc it talks about needing some resolve.

    Clue definition-
    n. noun
    Something that serves to guide or direct in the solution of a problem or mystery.
    To give (someone) guiding information.

    In the poem I’ve found 9 phrases that give direction to the reader-
    1. begin it where warm waters halt
    2. take it in the canyon down
    3. put in below the home of Brown
    4. look down your quest to cease
    5. tarry scant with marvel gaze
    6. take chest
    7. go in peace
    8. hear me
    9. listen good

    I think these are the key lines to the 9 clues, now working on resolve.

    • The 9 clues dilemma. Are there actually 9 specific clues/ answers hidden in the poem or 9 sentences with hints to guide one to the chest?

      One has the reader looking for 9 answers, locations, 9 something to point in a direction.

      The other involves Hints to explain the poem meaning or significance of the poem leading to the chest.

      There is a third way… The poem has nothing to do with water or canyons or Brown anything…Just a cleverly written poem that holds the location of the chest only.

      Theories and methods differ from person to person.

      Personally – I read 9 sentences with an abundance amount of hints that needs to be followed in order. A Clues is not always singular. But I also see information in the structure of the poem.

      • It’s so easy to find multiple ways of reading it and making it fit into any location or ideal. I try to keep in mind that it is straight forward and showing it to a kid. It is supposed to take you straight to the chest, no guess work. I’ve believed from the beginning that it tells you exactly where chest is. Wasn’t there something in his book during his school days where he mentioned diagraming sentences? I’m in Minnesota right now and left book in Tn. Diagraming sentences was one of my worst experiences in school, but a kid would probably know how.

        • Michelle,

          Show the poem to a child has many as well. IMO It could mean that the child has an open mind, or could be something we learned in school that a child would recall before an adult.

          Another is older language, such as the word Child means, coon or racoon, a term use by Mountain men with respect to one another.

          The Only real question is… How does a the poem need to be read correctly?

          Where in TN are you?

          • I understand what you’re saying and all valid points. I feel like it’s right there, you know, just barely beyond my reach. Using only the poem with no special knowledge or skills, without knowing Forrest. His use of words like wise, meaning crafty, to build, he spoke of feeling more like an architect building the poem. I think of structures which makes me think of sentence structure. I know I’m rambling.

  110. I travel for work with my husband in utility construction. We nomadic in a travel trailer, but left it in storage at Knoxville, tn, didn’t want to move it this far(two harbors, mn.) Going to phoenix, az in the next couple of weeks for the winter then back here in the spring.

    • Ah! No property tax, No school tax, No jehovah witness trying to sell God. I have nothing against anyone who believes in God… I just can’t stand his fan club.

      Your traveling the country side… the wind in your hair, seeing Mother nature first hand. Sounds like the life to live. Well, there is the gas prices, flat tires, crazy drivers, No parking signs and the traffic…

    • I was born in Knoxville, and still have tons of family there. Have to make a trip out there this month to visit with family.

      I live in Albuquerque because my dad was stationed here when I was a kid, and we never left. But, Tennessee is always my home, and there is no feeling like when I go back.

  111. funny you should mention jehovah witness…actually had one come to park we were staying in, I love to debate and had him struggling to get out the door in less than 10 minutes…but, yes, love the life i’m living and make a point of exploring every new area we go to! Here it has been searching for agates and kayaking!

  112. Seeker

    I think it’s great God has a fan club
    Someone needs to spread the good news 🙂 !!!!!!!


    • I agree, Amy…and ultimately The Gift is free because we could never pay for it by ourselves. The Gift was paid for by Another with Perfect Love. Who wouldn’t make an effort to claim it?

  113. By george, I think I’ve got it! I’ll give one freebie…

    1. Where warm waters halt in the canyon found blaze.

    I’m keeping the other eight in my pocket for now.

  114. I spent the evening looking for words that were on one line and connected to a word on another line. I was hoping this might verify a place name. So far all I found was “Tarry” on one line and “All” on another line. I don’t see any reason why either of those words should be in the poem so I connected them. It must refer to Tarryall. This could be either Tarryall creek, reservoir, mountains or ghost town. It was the region where the colorado gold rush begain. Tarryall creek begins near Jefferrson. Follow CR77 south until it intersects with 24. It is a short drive but way too far to walk.

    • Yes Michael. I’ve noticed that also, Tarryall… But couldn’t put the rest of it together. I have that piece of information tucked back into my mind with all the other zillion pieces of curious information. It’s getting crowded in there! 🙂

    • Michael H,

      I like your concept of looking for words, I’ll even add phrases, to make a connection through out the poem and not just a single line. But I’ll ask this, why are you limiting to just names of Places?

      I understand this was just an exerciser in the hope to find a name of a place…But what if, most of the hints / words / phrases refer to no place at all.

      Example: “heavy loads and water high” – Most are looking for a physical place, with maybe a waterfall or boulders, even a bridge over troubled waters… OK I can see that, But if I said, it may related to an old saying referring to a burial or funeral ceremony… Earth filled hole and tears of sorrow above. With a bit of a twist and a little imagination, Canyon down is nothing more than, shear sides and a lower level.

      My point is, is possible that we are looking for too many relationships to physical place? Even forcing a physical place to fit the poem. in fact the entire poem may not be physical at all… at least till you are at the spot the chest lays in wait. The poem can still guide a searcher to a spot, without having to travel all over the place to get there. Follow the clue precisely is all we really need to do.

      Funny this is Precisely means: Dead or exact
      Halt: Dead or dead stop
      Cold : dead or dead cold
      End: Dead or dead end
      Cease : dead or deceased

      Others that “could” be related, In the wood…go in peace…the end is ever drawing nigh…below the home of brown… etc.

      These are just examples of how the poem relates to other meanings than just a physical spot.

      Just a different perspective

      • Seeker, my take on heavy loads and water high is also not a physical place. My take is that it’s along the lines of the past–the Emigrant Trail, where people headed West, for religion, for gold, for land–for whatever reason, they carried their heavy loads on wagons, horses, handcarts….and buried many loved ones on the way.

      • Yes, I agree that there is a subtext nuanced in the poem. The theme of death. That is what had many looking around graveyards until FF told us that it was not in one of those. But even with all of the meanings we attache to the poem or find between the lines there is still an actual place with an actual treasure. I still have a linear view of things. I was even thinking of laying the tree of life over the poem and connecting the dots and the words beneath them. That would be architecture. LOL.

        Today I got on the freeway and couldn’t get in the lanes that would take me to where I wanted to go. So, I ended up in Santa Fe. I had breakfast at the Horsemans Haven. I decided to do a search of a nearby area. I went down Camino De Teirra to Old Buckman Road. I then Drove down to the river. The spot that I had earlier believed the treasure was at was trashed. So, on the way back up the road I pulled into the parking area for Diablo Canyon. I had no idea where I was. I had to ask. I have to ask. As I walked down the canyon. As I looked at the walls. As I looked at the piles of boulders. As I looked at all of the niches, craigs, crevices and holes. I asked again.
        The answer From Diablo Canyon: “Oh Hell Yes!”
        I love that place.

  115. My take of “Put in” when talking about HoB is thats where you park. you “put in” your car below the HoB and walk to the chest. I think you have to drive from WWWH to HoB than you have to hike to the chest and thats when the thrill of the chase ends and the IRS’s thrill of chasing you down begins….

  116. Hi folks, I’ve been to quiet and Imo eating crow is more fun than lurking about!
    So, I thought I’d try this differently and see if I get blasted or perhaps help us.

    For the past few years there hasn’t been too many changes in the Chase… most of us are lost with the exception of a few, like Rick and Chris Yates. (I also wonder where Chris has been? I’ve always thought he was a contender.)

    Anyhow, what if we were to try and narrow down by concensus what we think the nine clues and their meanings are? For example I name what I think have been the top ten or so WWWH and others due the same… than we narrow down the choices until we come up with what are probably the best three or four incorrect choices.


    1. Ice-snow… ex. Ice park, cave! Water in a liquid state never halts!
    2. Paint… Paint drys… warm could be a color!
    3. Hot springs… warm water flowing into cold… I always liked the Red River, but Manby, Ojo Caliente and hundreds of others are in the four states.
    4. Geisors… YNP
    5. Frank Waters… f said he was a warm person!
    6. Tears… as in Obsidian or a trail of tears.
    7. A basin… and I am not referring to Arapaho Basin, but I always enjoyed skiing there. Pizza and pink lemonade while skiing in June and July. Awesome! This is complex and could be as small as a sink (bathtub), and as large as San Juan.
    8. A ditch, arroyo, a hole…
    9. Rivers dry up and halt… the Dry Cimarron?
    10. The big Ditch leaked and the water in it became so hot by the time it reached its end it dryed up too.
    11. Collected Works is on Waters Street in Santa Fe, perhaps one needs to start with the book only available (at first) at the Collected Works Bookstore on the end of Waters Street?
    12. And last of my top 100 is a lavatory or even a sewage treatment plant? No outhouses plz! smiles!

    Well here are just a few. If we were all to list are WWWH s then choose are favorites… it might be possible through the process of elimination to pick the right one… what do you think BRIMLEY?

    • @ WiseOne, since you proposed discussing the question as to why Forrest Fenn wanted to do TTOTC and are asking others to discuss it, perhaps you could help by opening with some of your views…

      *To my knowledge, on this topic Forrest has made reference to loving the thrill of the chase, and hoping others will too, along with getting outdoors.

      In answer to your question, IMO, it’s a clarion call to find internal peace and also external harmony with others. ff found that trail and hopes we will too, along with the thrill of chasing adventure.

      In key ways I already enjoy internal peace and try to keep harmony with others. So for me TTOTC was more of a journey to rediscover myself. As I’ve researched and searched, I asked myself, “do you miss me (who I am now) while you are searching for who you are? (who you were created to be).

      • PS. Whether or not Forrest meant for TTOTC to be a metaphor for faith I dont know but iMO it is.

        Like children, we believe by faith in something that we cannot see. For the one who finds it, it’s a gift so valuable that no person could ever earn it.

      • I like your views Lia.
        I’ll begin by giving my opinion as to why I think f created TTOTC, but this is just my opinion. Everyone has their own I’m sure.
        I think when f was diagnosed with cancer, it was a real eye-opener… an awakening. Maybe at this point in his life, it made him feel the need to get some of his inner-most questions answered while battling cancer and hoping for a cure. Forrest also seems like the type of person that doesn’t go about things in the usual way that most people do. I’m sure he researched everything he could to figure out a way to beat this thing (cancer). Luckily, he seems to have figured that part out.
        Re: Getting outdoors…To him, getting out into nature was very important to him and I believe it made him feel closer to his spiritual place. He says his “church is in the mountains and along the river bottoms where dreams and fantasies alike go to play”. To me, everything is connected in nature. And I think we/people are connected to nature in a spiritual way. I could go on and on but I won’t bore people with anymore of my thinking.
        But as far as TTOTC goes… I think it’s the excitement of searching for something that brings the thrill. I hope he has found all the answers to his questions. He says in the poem: “The answers I already know”. So….
        We are all on a journey…aren’t we? It’s a long road.
        How much do we need to learn while we are here?
        How much time do we have to learn it?
        So many questions….

        • Wise one,
          not everyone has the benefit of a long journey. I try to be a great vicarious learner thru others struggles and victories – in case my life is cut shorter than I expect. When I’m open and humble I learn plenty through others.

      • I don’t know which way to go to find myself again.
        I haven’t found me happy since I can’t remember when.
        I can’t remember who I am or who I was supposed to be.
        When I look in the mirror disappointment is all I see.
        The tracks that led me here are gone beneath the sands of time.
        Can all the others know the truth? Am I the only one that’s blind?
        There is no going back from here so I’m forced to look ahead for hope.
        But all I see in front of me is a man who’s used more than half his rope.
        I cannot be the only one, left twisting in the winds of change,
        Desperate to enjoy the life that hangs from what little rope remains.
        Wherever can I find someone who’s lost like me, forever.
        I’ve found myself alone enough, I’d rather be lost together.

        • Michael D, I only know you from your posts on Dal’s blog, but I’m sorry for all you’ve been through, and sorry that you feel so alone. Can you take a break from routine for a respite to recharge your soul somewhere with a friend? I’ve felt depressed at times, it’s a lonely place to be. You are welcome to stay with my husband and I if you have no where else to turn. Trying to extend friendship is a bit difficult on a public blog reserved for exchanging views on Mr. Fenn’s treasure poem.

        • Hey Mike D , Im MIke D , you ever wanna talk man let me know. I’m board disabled 5 kids and nothing to do. Any time brother. I don’t have but friend ship and love as a brother.

          • Wow…thanks for the support on this blog!! I was just commenting on Lia’s post thinking that poem fit…sorry for the apparent sound of Despair!

          • Thanks German Guy I see they have a section on anxiety I can use some help with that sometimes… might just go check it out!

          • Wow, I must not have fully grasped the magnitude of my words….Bless you all for caring enough to respond…I was just responding to Lia’s post…perhaps a poor choice of words, but I thought they fit her discussion…Sorry I created so much drama….going back to lurker mode now! I’m fine everyone!! Thanks for caring!!

          • You guys rock! So many well wishers, and people recognizing the tone of the poem…This is the tone I define in Fenn’s words sometimes,,,and I was interjecting on a discussion between Lia and Wiseguy….I hope I caused no concern, but I can alredy see I failed to communicate it properly….I am fine guys…but love you all for caring!! Sorry for any drama, Just a thought of the definition of life, that is all!! How many of us have been to where that poem takes us?

          • Michael D – i’m glad to hear hope back in your voice today, but don’t be a stranger to the blog. I enjoy your poetry and hope you’ll continue sharing. And seriously, get out there and look for friendship and love again in your life. Love is akin to Forrest’s treasure…you have to plan and search for it or you won’t ever find it.

        • Michael

          If u feel lost and empty
          Then all u need to do is look up in the sky and u will see and find the Son.
          He can help u in any circumstance. I look up all the time:)
          But I’m not depressed as each year goes by I become wiser. I do my best to not let the world bother me , except for government. I only watch the news here and there.
          All I want is a simple life. It really doesn’t bother me what other people have in this world cause it really doesn’t matter:)
          Surely you have a friend or two Right?
          Otherwise you have this Big Blog of friends 🙂
          We love you:)

          • Amy’s right Michael, we on Dal’s blog love you, (and your poetry). But I understand when your heart feels like it’s broken and empty. Grab a friend Michael, you need to spend time with friends, and not alone.
            How about a vacation like 42 suggested?

          • Michael D,
            to answer your question, plenty of us have been to that place. And it’s possible to be well loved by family & friends and still be lonely in your inner being. As Forrest mentioned in his memoir, no one has your thoughts and can fully understand who you are. The only way I know to partially overcome that is to sincerely and transparently share with those that are close to you to help them understand who you are and what needs you have.

            It’s my belief that heaven is a physical reality, and it’s where our inner beings will finally know and be known completely. All understanding, harmony and love will be fully realized. I’m not preaching to anyone, just expressing my personal beliefs. If I’m wrong then my bones will simply return to the earth and I will no longer exist. But if I’m right, and there is more, and it only takes faith to believe that I could live forever in a perfect place. I’m going with faith and letting my spirit fly!

            My coping or default mechanism for life is to live centered around gratefulness. I have stage III cancer, and because of other health problems could not undrrgo treatments after surgery.

            For me, every breath is a gift from God. Without the spirit he is put with in me, I would simply be flesh and bones without the ability to love or appreciate all that is created. I choose to see life in all of its brilliant living color, appreciating each friend that walks my journey with me, and every sun-dappled leaf in nature.

        • Michael, if you have not sought help from a health professional, please do so. As much as people hate to take medication, sometimes it is required to help bring them out of depression. I have relatives who are on anti-depressants and it has made a world of difference in their lives. If you are having situational depression, you may only need medication for a short time but if you have a chemical imbalance, the medication can help restore you to a more balanced system. There is no shame in seeking help. Best wishes to you.

        • Michael D,
          I hope the encouragement of others on Dal’s blog tonight helped lift your spirit. We all need hope. For me that’s found in my faith, and also knowing others who’ve gone thru horrible situations and are able to find second chances at health, happiness or love. After your wife left, it’s important to know that with the right outlook and getting out you could yet find a new best friend. Here’s a link to a happy, hopeful song to renew your hope.

        • Michael D-
          Now I feel much better about telling you that your poem really made me think. Nice work.
          Don’t spend too much time there.

  117. Probably the worst strategy I’ve seen if you want to be the one to find it is to post your ideas. I prefer to lurk and wait for others to tell me where it is and go out on the weekend to see if they were right.

    • So your definition of a “lurker” is someone too lazy to figure the poem’s solution themselves?

      The difference between a predictor and a scavenger, I guess.
      The predictor gets the prize, the scavenger maybe luck to get a tidbit left behind.

      I guess it is another way to solve the poem…

  118. I found it interesting that in the chapter “The war for me” Forrest mentions 2 incidents that left a mark in his life…Flying over Philadelphia and falling over the French grave marker…. The French got involved in the American Revolutionary war with the help of Benjamin Franklin (whose also in TTOTC) when the army was resting for the winter at Valley Forge… close to where JD Salinger based the school in his book “catcher in the rye” VF military academy and the soldiers there have no grave markers and noone knows where they are burried like Forrests says of the French soldiers in Vietnam….

    • Q&A..on Jenny’s Blog, Paraphrasing, Does the poem have anything to do with “US” history……..NO

      • Boy did Forrest ever throw another curve ball there. Watch out for this Forrest character he will allow you to run right off a cliff. History is essential in the books not the poem.

      • yeah I think it was along the lines of “do you have to know about us history to solve the poem” and he said no…so that does not mean you do not have to learn about us history to figure it out…but anyways I am probably wrong but oh well I like learning about the area I am from anyhow so I am enjoying myself…

          • Thanks Ed,
            I live so far away in Philadelphia that I am trying to make my adventure a 6 plus week one, maybe longer, with a bunch of people next summer… let me know if you are anyone you know wants in…

        • The point philly is the question was about US history…not history in general. If referring to history, “maybe, just a suggestion”, go back a bit farther… Not far, but too far to walk.

          • gotcha Seeker,
            yea I think I am wrong but I think its more interesting to be wrong and try to learn than to be right and not willing to learn….

    • Dave,

      I’m sorry you feel that “lurking” is better than “working”. I don’t see how you are ever going to find the chest with that approach. It kind of reminds me of a panhandler standing on a street corner begging for money from hard working passer byes. Your comment is quite revealing. Good luck with that approach.

  119. How am I not working? That doesn’t even make sense that I’m not working just because I listen to what others give for free. Are you smarter if you tell me where it is and I go get it? If that makes me lazy, and not working, ok then.

    • I think GG was referring to the “character” angle Dave. Kind of reminds of school days when kids copied others papers and then whined when they didn’t really understand what was being taught…just saying

    • GG and Ken said it better than I did. Maybe instead of coping off another… Throw a thought or two out there. Maybe someone will give an idea or dissect your thoughts, that works with your own theory on the poem.

  120. Why would you share if you didn’t expect others to use it(copy)? What is your reason for giving away your stuff? Just to be friendly and help others find it?

  121. Dave
    lol no one will let others know their secrets Sorry u have to figure it out. 🙂 I’m still figuring

  122. Amy I think you got my meaning, but I think there are plenty who need to talk as Fenn has said. I shouldn’t have said I was using things I read. I’ll go back to lurking.

    • “lurker” is a word that carries a lot of negative connotation…
      Some words just sound bad…”Lurker” is one.

      I don’t see a problem with folks who simply look on the blog for ideas. It’s here for that fact that may have been this blog’s …ANY blog’s…original purpose..
      I write… you read…that’s how blogs were intended..

      But we have pages here just for discussion…and that’s fun and interesting too..
      But writing is not everyone’s desire.
      Some feel they don’t have anything to contribute..
      Others are timid..
      Still others have never written on a blog and don’t know how..

      It doesn’t matter the reason..If you want to just read..that’s fine..

      It’s like voting. I have been in countries where it was the law that you must vote..
      Here is the USA it is not a law. We are not required to vote…
      Yet not voting is seen as shameful…and un-American…

      Those who fought in the American Revolution did not (in my opinion) fight for my right to vote and to say so is to denigrate their beliefs. In fact, they fought for the right to vote if you want and not vote if you don’t want…freedom

      This is a free blog…
      Read and or comment at your leisure..

  123. Dave

    Lol I think we are all guilty of using others info, or ideas , hints etc …

    So keep lurking it’s ok 🙂 have fun in the Chase 🙂

  124. I was calling myself a lurker and then used it in a general term. No offense to anyone else ever meant.

  125. I log onto Dals blog about 30 times a day just to get updates on recent post from Forrest and a few bloggers that usually have some good info to share, but I comment once in a blue moon and usually nothing of value so I’m consider a lurker which isn’t a bad thing it’s just like Dal said, at that time I might not any useful information to contribute that hasn’t alread been said.

  126. Shhhh…just whispering!! One thing that has been on my mind lately,is when Forrest said : ” In the mountains north of Santa Fe” then later changed it to say: ” In the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe” being a crafty man that he is,could he have meant INSIDE the Rocky Mountains. Meaning inside the ranges in the Plains and not at the top IN the mountains.

  127. I always thought the treasure was in a certain forrest in NM, but if the treasure is below 10 200 feet above sea level my solution, which was “perfect”, goes into fumes. I need to go back to my drawing board with a different mentality.RC.

  128. just playing around—

    What am I?
    One begin it, two take it, three put in below,
    four look quickly, five tarry, six just take the chest,
    seven go, eight hear me, and nine listen good…

    • I know who you are Michelle Rice

      You’re a newlywed!

      One begin it – relationship

      Two take it – vows

      Three put in below – live in your parents basement

      Four look quickly down – see how much money you have left after paying the bills

      Five tarry – wait for next paycheck to buy food

      Six just take the chest – someone, a relative maybe offers you a cooler filled with food

      Seven go – look for a second job

      Eight hear me – get married for love, not money

      Nine listen good – see eight

      By the way, my daughters maiden name is the same as yours.

  129. Clues or hint?

    I have looked at the poem, wondering why, that we Know the poem inside and out, backwards, forwards, even changed it up …we have lots of information on the Author…we have researched many many avenues and shared ideas, theories, methods and thoughts, Yet we don’t even have a consensus on What the clues truly are.

    Some say 9 sentences are the clues. Others pick 9 lines, Some find meanings to find clues, some numbers, some codes, even some dismiss 9 clues altogether and just attempt follow the poem to the chest….

    Seriously, what is it that most / all of us are not understanding or over looking? Even the “few” that have solved some clues apparently, may not understand they did.

    One thing that I have noticed is, The Author in his comment and such has [ as far as I can tell ] used the word clue…Yet in the poem uses hint. That is just an observation. I have also seen that most if not all searchers research history…past and present. But fenn talks of influencing others 100 – 1000 years down the road.
    Is the poem or part of the poem written for “those” future Searchers, Seekers, Collectors and Treasure Hunters? Are we reading the poem correctly?

    Pondering and wondering over a cup of coffee.

    • I also look at the cheat sheet. One comment refers to FF original plan to take a chest out into the desert and die there. He was asked if the chest was in the location he had in mind originally. He said yes.
      ….or something vaguely like that, nothing specific, nobody can say for sure, but it’s the truth even if it didn’t happen…

      • Well one thing we know warm water does not halt at a hot springs otherwise 5,000 people would of correctly guessed wwwh but then again has he ever said searchers have figured out wwwh just that they correctly deciphered the first two clues.

    • Seeker-
      Am pondering with my coffee as well.

      I put myself in this following scenario –
      I’m walking along a beach and find a bottle washed ashore with the poem. No map, no knowledge of the author…just the poem.

      I think all the other tidbits murk up the thinking. You know, we originally didn’t know it was in the mountains, we had no mileage guidelines, no place was ruled out, didn’t even know number of clues. Hidden or buried? New Mexico, Wyoming or Montana? Past, present, future or all? Who knows or cares for that matter. This is all information that we don’t need because we have the poem.

      • Michelle,

        Exactly, we didn’t know any of the After the fact statements. So 1000’s of years down the road how could the poem tell that person who found the message in the bottle, where the chest lays in wait? Not only would there be know Above 5000,’ No structure etc….. there maybe No New Mexico or even the USA, as we know it today. Look at how much the world has in just the past 500 years. The USA didn’t even exist.

        ” The end is ever drawing nigh;” what could be Ending? is the poem truly talking about a location or could it be an event or even both, a difficult situation to be in, which would place hardship and hard time. { just thought of some lines in the poem} History tends to repeat itself, Geology speaking, over long periods of time, maybe just maybe the poem is describing an ‘reoccurring event’…. A comprehensive knowledge of geography might help.

        Google Earth? all you need is the poem? the book for reference that contains subtle but not intentional hints? If you know what to look for. Knowledge Of Geography: the study of the Earth surface….

        Dang, out of coffee.

        • I just refilled my cup! I’m staring at the poem, reading it over and over again. I’m not suppose to know to begin it at the beginning(whatever he meant by that) so all the passages are equally important. Reading it, as is, is much too vague…There must be some sort of systematic approach. He is telling what he has done AND what we must do.

          • I don’t think of – Start at the beginning is a “place” in the poem – as much as a reference to understand Beginning. Both starting at stanza 1 and starting at WWWH means the same thing to my theory, as well as So why is it I must go… all refer to The beginning. So I guess WWWH is a good place to start.

            Anyways, my thought of trying to read the poem from a distance future perspective is only to try and see the poem through another eyes. Not unlike how WE look back to the time of the Maya, ancient Egypt or Stonehenge.

            And the reason I asked, could the poem be written more for the future explores.

            Coffee brake over, need to go kick the wife and kiss the dog and start the day.

      • That’s an interesting exercise michelle-
        If I let my mind wander into your scenario I find that I have uncorked a treasure map…in words instead of drawings…that much is clear to me…
        And just like a treasure map the place the map depicts is unclear to me.
        I am confronted with trying to find the place where warm waters halt, first…because that seems like the starting point to me…
        I am no better off in that scenario than I am today ..and perhaps much worse since at least today I know to look in the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe..
        So what place would be the place where warm waters halt both today and in the future and known to those of us only looking in the Rocky Mountains and also those who don’t have that hint.
        People often question whether or not the actual starting point needs to be in the Rocky Mountains. Just because the chest is there does not mean the starting point is also there.

        So…in the broadest sense…but still imagining myself on planet earth…
        Does warm water halt on…or very near…the surface of the earth??
        We don’t find warm water in the upper atmosphere…
        So…we begin somewhere…perhaps anywhere… on the planet’s surface…
        The planets surface could be where warm waters halt…
        and then take it in the canyon down…
        What canyon??

        Still not working..
        But I like your idea and will think about it for a few weeks while I stay warm..

        • Dal-
          I do hope my exercise strengthens you…either in mentality or resolve. I, too, see the poem as a map of words and like a map with pictures, many different paths to take leading all over the place. So I must learn to read the key in order to read the map properly. As “The Thrill of the Chase” when put in order “Chase of the Thrill”.

        • Dal-
          Have you looked in Mt. Chiborazo as thats the highest place on earth defined from the center of the earth. I would hazard a guess that warm waters would indeed halt there first. Then perhaps drawing a line from there to??? as a first line of interception?

        • “We don’t find warm water in the upper atmosphere…”

          That is an answer in and of itself, Dal

          • One-
            I probably didn’t make my thinking very apparent…
            I was thinking that “warm” water has it’s start below the earth’s surface…in some cases it pops up as a geyser or hot spring…
            Then comes down and spreads…into a pool…or into a stream…and cools…at some point…

            People have been trying to make hot springs and geysers work as WWWH from the beginning…but the problem is that the warm water keeps moving…and may stop in a lake or a stream of just slowly cools down…where does it “halt”?

            Additionally, there are so many hot springs and geysers…it would be impossible to tell which one Forrest had in mind if this were in fact WWWH…
            However this is not the end of warm water because some of it evaporates…now this water that is evaporated is still warm…
            It travels up into the atmosphere where it eventual forms a moisture laden cloud and then falls as rain, back on earth’s surface…

            So in all cases where warm water halts…the single place they all have in common is the surface of the planet..
            So my bright idea was that all warm water halts on the surface of the planet…

            But never mind…I don’t care for this at all…just thinking out loud..

          • Where Warm Waters halts, doesn’t exist is in “Sublimation”. Not a crazy shot in the dark but an actual part of my tonight’s solution.

          • Dal and One,
            I was looking up warm water lakes and cold water lakes and called a park near my house that has both….the nice lady said that warm water were filled with bass and cold water were filled with trout…if that helps out anyone…..

          • clues-
            Folks have been looking at that from the very beginning. It is well known to trout fishers in NM and other states that there are warm water streams and cold water streams. The cold water streams have trout..the warm water streams do not…although there is tolerance among various species of trout …generally speaking trout prefer cold water…and you can imagine that many streams in a state like NM are very warm in summer…
            The state of NM actually classifies their streams as warm water and cold water…
            Folks have been looking to see where warm water streams stop and cold water streams NM and other states where the same conditions exist..
            Many still adhere to this philosophy of WWWH..

          • Dal,

            So tell me, why must cold water even be considered.

            It seems the focus is on a subjective ‘warm waters’ and has no apparent value with regard to cold waters. Why not drop out thinking about cold water and focus entirely on the properties associated with ‘warm waters’ instead. Understand, Forrest has told us that he likes using words that an astute person will understand (paraphrasing here). I feel that ‘halt’ is such a word. I think spending more time focusing on that will eventually give better results.

          • german-
            That’s a good point. I’ll think about that.
            I once ignored all temperature. My thinking was that if water halts in a place than both warm and cold water will halt there..
            So I started looking at places where waters halt.That didn’t get me far…well it did get me a couple of places but then Forrest ruled out dams so those places were eliminated..

            But my two rivers ending spot works pretty well as a place where warm waters halt..
            I just have a stubborn idea that this is the place he wants us to start…
            Call me incorrigible…you wouldn’t be the first…

          • Dal,

            I have also considered “where waters halt’ without the adjective warm. Makes sense.

            Did f really rule out dams even as a point on a search map? Not the location of the treasure itself but a point on the way. This would involve dangers of being on the ground navigating water falls etc.

          • William-
            Maybe you are right…but for me the difficulty is in deciding which extinct geyser..there are hundreds…
            Forrest makes no reference that I am aware of to a particular extinct geyser…so how would we have any idea where to start..

            In my heart of hearts I believe that WWWH is a very specific location…one that makes a great deal of logical and geographic sense as WWWH. It fits his description perfectly and it is in an area that he writes about often in both his last two books.
            Now I am not saying that I am right about this place because I have not found a treasure chest by starting there…but as has been pointed out by many others…there are twists and turns and choices to be made as you follow the clues from WWWH…and all of them have not been explored..

            Then of course there is the distinct possibility that the chest is hidden so well that I have been within a few feet of it and didn’t notice its hide spot.

            finally…of course…I could be delusional…

          • I’ve always liked talus, because talus is an ankle bone and a rock pile, tibia halts at the talus, aguas tibia is Spanish for warm waters, and a tibia is in a calf, like Bessie from his book.

            Now if I can find a wavy lines blaze on a cliff side above a talus rock pile, I’ll be turning stones.

          • I picture warm waters halt at two locations. Water cycling back through the ground in a geyser chamber becoming very Hot – or Condensation. Condensation either in the superheated water eruption at a geyser or evaporation condensation cycle in our atmosphere.

          • Here is another possibility for WWWH: Colter’s Hell.

            It’s a complete understanding: literary speaking, it keeps on halting since Colter described it, and figuratively, Hell is THE place where warm waters halt… it has everything, including some environmental side to it, thrown in for good measure.

            A side note, that’s why the verse in my poem “but that’s infernal, []…how deeper then, should I explore?”

            It was of course also a play on the Phantom being my guide, just as Virgil did for Dante 🙂

        • I am still working on the Aqua Fria theory. Warm water from the Rio Grande is pumped up the canyon to the Agua Fria district of Santa Fe. Follow Ancha canyon down. The dry river bed (no paddle up your creek) goes through Diablo canyon.
          The only thing that I couldn’t fit into my theory was HOB. Until Forrest smeered that red ochre on the page which you so kindly posted. I won’t say that I found the blaze. But I think I found a place where I am happy to explore.
          BTW, Looking up one section of the cliffs called the Styx there is a bit of white lichen that forms the shape of an F. Some people must have thought it was the blaze. But it is obviously not the sort of cliff that an 80 year old would climb. The other side of the dry river bed has an abundance of hiding places. These are piles of heavy loads carved by water high as the river eroded the canyon down.

    • Seeker Well Said! “Is the poem or part of the poem written for “those” future Searchers, Seekers, Collectors and Treasure Hunters? Are we reading the poem correctly?”

      BROWN a low intensity light in which is illuminated by yellow and orange hue. Between 620-585 nanometers
      BUT THE BEST PART: Low Intensity light is measured as the length of signal between 2 Peaks /—————\
      May be something may not ….
      Just a thought I had already , since you all have seen it .
      Might as well talk about it. Good luck

      PS. Usually Treasure maps ,at least by historical dictation, are almost always in two parts.

  130. We know that Forrest stated there are no notes to be found, but is it possible that the right solution to the poem could lead you to a specific location that yields a treasure map which gives exact directions the final few miles and feet? Almost like an address once you are in the neighborhood? I think it’s possible but wondered if Forrest has answered the treasure map question.

    Heading to work, but hope the bloggers have a great day!

  131. I’ve been wondering if “home of Brown” is a red herring, like the word “providence” and thus meaningless in the poem. Then I wondered if there was a petroglyph or blaze of wavy lines for “water high”.

  132. There never will be a consensus on what the clues are because everybody believes what they want to believe, including me.

    Having said that, I believe that I know what some of the clues are. It was a serendipitous finding, that’s why I’m probably one of the few if not the only one that knows. All the same, I could be totally wrong 🙂 but I’ve been sitting on my solution for more than a year, and all the comments from Forrest ever since, keep reinforcing it; including the following, which is quite “in your face” kind of disclosure.

    “The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years…”

    To me it’s crystal clear what they are, and what he’s talking about.
    I cannot speak for the man but I can hypothesize, and I think that he must be getting “exasperated” (tongue-in-cheek of course). Right here, in the above quote he lays it down for us to understand, and yet people still talk about 9 sentences 🙂

    In 100 years the clues might still exist… therefore logically, they might also be gone.
    Now… who really believes that the 9 sentences might not be extant in a hundred years? If that’s the case… then there will be no more poem… no more INTERNET…
    To make a bad pun: It usually starts with “Hello, world!”, might as well end with “Good-bye, world!”, so to speak.

    The poem is here to stay for as long as the information about it is out in the ether, wouldn’t that be true? It stands to reason that the 9 sentences ARE NOT the clues.
    All I will say for now – some of the clues have very precise locations 🙂 and that’s how I found/constructed the blaze.

    For those that didn’t read my previous comments: the blaze it’s lines that you draw on map, better yet in Google Earth (Forrest mentioned the measuring tool in GE, not to be used for actual measurements but drawing lines that “intersect where they’re supposed to, metaphorically speaking”- quoting another in your face hint from him).
    You begin the first line where warm waters halt and you take it in the canyon down not far but too far (that means further). Three clues right there.

    Here’s something that I didn’t say before… “the end is ever drawing nigh” means the end of the second line is to be draw close to the last blaze clue (70 feet to be precise) until you reach something: your creek; and I just used the semicolon deliberately, because it’s been debated for so long why is it there in the poem.

    Here is why: it delineates the arm chair search and the boot on the ground search. That’s not to say that one really has to search outside – if homework was done correctly, the destination is clear and there will be no need to search but go straight to his secret fishing hole; be careful not to stumble in it 😉

    • {}, Thus may we also consider the nine clues as not/not only a sum? That the clues themselves are, in sum, or relative to the number itself? This would allow for precision.

    • I interpret his statement to mean that the places the clues refer to might exist in 100 years and does not refer to the clues as you suggest. I also think many people have identified the clues correctly but haven’t figured out the location to apply the clues. Others have the correct location but have misapplied the clues. If you are so certain that you are the only one who has figured it all out, why don’t you have the chest?

        • Who are you referring to and how can he give it away if he doesn’t have it? Also, the complete quote regarding the places existing in 100 years is as follows:

          ” Thanks Ron, thoughtful questions
          The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years but the geography probably will change before we reach the next millennia. The Rocky mountains are still moving and associated physical changes will surely have an impact. If you are in the year 3,009 it will be more difficult for you to find the treasure.f”

          He clearly is referring to the geography of the locale of the chest and not to his poem, internet, or clues.

          • Raven, since you’re quoting the whole answer, maybe you should be quoting the whole question too 😉
            Now, considering that Forrest is giving a straight answer to the question (no reason to believe otherwise), please tell me, do you still think that he is referring to the geography 🙂 ?

            One more thing, at least two of the places is not geography but structures; one wasn’t in existence when he was a kid. IMO of course.

          • Yes {}, after re-reading the question/answer again I think Forrest was referring to the geography and not the clues or poem as you suggest or “structures” as you are now proposing. IMHo ofcourse.

          • “Hi,
            Did THE same 9 CLUES exist when you were a kid and to your estimation will THEY STILL EXIST in 100 years and 1000 years?
            Thanks ~Ron

            Thanks Ron, thoughtful questions
            THE CLUES did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think THEY might STILL EXIST in 100 years but the geography probably will change before we reach the next millennia…”

            A two question statement from Ron concerning the clues, acknowledged as multiple questions by Forrest, and answer as such as well.

            Pretty straight forward: the clues might last 100 years, but that’s one’s opinion of course… 🙂

            The structures I mentioned are not clues, they are referred to by some clues, just as he said.
            They (structures) may or may not last a 100 years, chances are the clues will be first to go as political/demographical priorities change 😉

    • Despite the fact that it is extremely interesting and appearingly not unintentional that the number 9 appears in so many guises associated with the chase, Forrest’s response to my question regarding a preconceived intention to have 9 clues versus ending up with 9 clues was pretty clear. It does not appear that the 9 was part of a master plan from the outset. However, having ended up with about 9 clues, he may have enjoyed riding with it, and continued to work the 9 into the chase in other ways. Some of them we may fabricate ourselves due to 9 fever.

      Regarding the 9 sentences being the 9 clues specifically, I don’t believe that’s the case based upon the poem itself, but also based upon Forrest’s clear words as to the location of at least 5 or 6 clues within the poem. However, all the clues are somehow located within/determined by/discovered from, etc., the nine sentences (if you define them as such), so some people may regard the 9 sentences as clues in that manner, which is fine. Regarding the following statement by Forrest:

      “The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years…”

      I do not believe that tells you anything about the 9 sentences per se. The clues did not exist when Forrest was a kid because he had not yet written the poem. He created the clues. And when he says that “most of” the places that the clues refer to existed when he was a kid, that might be interpreted either as a casually Forrest way of saying that of course they all existed, or that literally most of them existed but some quantity did not in fact yet exist. This is the most remarkable aspect of that statement, that some of the places may not have existed just 75 or so years ago. That is worth contemplating.

      When Forrest says “they might still exist in 100 years”, it’s logical that he’s talking about the places, not the clues. The clues are in the poem and the poem is part of our culture and could be expected to exist for as long as our information stream is not catastrophically destroyed. So the implication appears to be that there is potential for change or alteration of the places in 100 years. This may contradict his statements referring to potentially thousands of years, and introduces a somewhat dynamic element into it. However, none of us today need worry about 100 years ahead (excepting dying searchers who will their search knowledge to others).

      Forrest has put an enormous number of statements out there, and each searcher needs to decide for herself/himself which ones are in your face or irrelevant. Generally the clinchers are the ones that suit your solve. That’s natural. The ones that don’t click sit in waiting for new thoughts.

      I have posted quite a bit about the important semi-colon. I believe that it’s critical to see that it implies that the two lines that follow “nigh;” are directly related to the elements preceding the semi-colon. That is straightforward, and in 15 years (at least) I think Forrest would get the punctuation just right, like the symbols and nomenclature on a detailed architectural plan, which are in turn clarified with a key.

      It’s pretty darn emphatic that Forrest is here saying what the end IS- the end IS: “ever drawing nigh;” -oh, but wait, that thought is connected to the next two lines via the semi-colon. Then he specifically tells you what there will NOT be (paddle up your creek) and just what there WILL be (heavy loads and water high), a negative and a positive that work together and also with what precedes them.

      And if you’re right you will go strong to the hole, not stumbling around, as surely as a basketball player knows where the iron is.


      • Halogetter,

        I agree with your comments. As you said, none of us need to worry a 100 years ahead…. my comment was do we need to think ahead in-regards to the poem. looking at it has if we are the “future searchers” I stated this for discussions, only for the fact most comments over the years are about the past in referring to the solution. for me, it was just a curiosity question.

        The statement: “The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years…” Is elementary. As you said, the clues did not exist for the fact he had not even thought of them as a kid.
        The Interesting part is ” But MOST of the place…did” this being understood as, Most clues are places, but not all clues are places. Which bring us back to, If followed precisely [ the nine clues ], what are we really following? 8 places? 4 places? a few places? That part of the comment / quote, Dissolves 9 physical places. Personally in my theory there is less than a few. But that’s just in my theory.

        I like your explanation of stanza 3 as well.

      • {} and Halogetter–Liked both your comments. Just wanted to thank you both for showing me the proper way to use the word quite.

      • Halogether, your reference to the Canadian invented game of basketball got me to thinking abut golf.

        The Game of Golf
        Since Forrest landed on that golf course to pick up a few items, I couldn’t help but notice the similarity between the game of golf and the thrill or the chase. For one you just can pick up either game and expect to get it right the first time. Both take years to perfect and these games takes patience and nerves of steel. The terms in golf are quite similar the hints and terms used by Forrest. A list of golf terms include:
        ace – Forrests reference to the card game poker
        birdie – Forrest shot meadow larks and other birds for food.
        back/front nine – two sets of nine holes equates to nine clues and double omega
        bandit/bogey – enemy aircraft that engaged Forrest in Vietnam
        banana ball – “grab every banana”
        bunker/sand trap – “castle built on the sand”, bunker is where soldiers hide
        cart – the wooden horse cart in Forrest’s back yard
        draw – for a right handed person curving left and “ever drawing nigh”
        dog-balls – the many references to Forrest’s dogs
        drive – the many references to driving in cars
        eagle, condor, ostrich, duck hook – more bird references
        fade – memories fade
        flier – Forrest is a pilot
        fringe – Forrest likes to bump his tires on the curb and test the fringes
        green – green tea
        hole – “how deep is a hole”
        hook – fish hooks and his lessons on how to tie flies.
        iron – nine irons in the golf bag and sliding down the school’s iron slide
        Putt/Putter – puttering down the road in the car with Skippy
        Shoot a score – shoot birds and the mountain lion
        Tee – Tea with Olga
        Wood – “brave and in the wood”

        I am sure there are many more – can you find them?

        The Wolf

        • Hello, Wolf. Your golf correlations are very interesting. I’ve played a grand total of 27 holes of golf in my lifetime…but not for lack of wanting to play more. No joke. I played my first 18 holes in Stuttgart, Germany back in ’97 or so. I played another 9 holes on a county course in north Cache Valley, Utah. That’s it! Maybe one day.

          However, those 27 holes were enough to convey the message directly to me that golf is a difficult game to play…exactly like Forrest’s Treasure hunt. Your quote is very concise, Wolf: “For one you just can pick up either game and expect to get it right the first time.”

          What’s usually missing for mos’t people is the patients and determinacion to see it through…which reminds me of a children’s book my mother bought for me when I was just a wee lad. She did her best to instill in me the values of hard work and persistents.

          I’m just kidding. My mother never bought me that book. 🙂 That’s silly. She bought it for my sisters. 🙂

    • Want to bet on that statement of who is all knowing? Just kidding I don’t want to start anything. I just got better and can venture outside again.

      But…. A few things I want to mention?

      “The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years…”

      This one makes me laugh. As do some of his others.

      Say it this way. No, the clues did not exist when I was a kid, I just wrote them in my book but I bet the clues will exist in 100 years. (Since no one is getting it). But most of the places the clues refer to did exist when I was a kid.

      I think (IMO) if people didn’t attack the new people who come on here all excited and pumped up with a fresh look at things until they shut up and go away. Then maybe some different point of views might come out. I think there are lots of statements people over look that he says. Remembering. It’s not what he wants to be said by him. Those are planned out. Sometimes it’s the whispers. The little things he says and has said that can mean more.
      He once told a reporter he would not say what the home of the Brown is, if he did then they would go get the chest. (Think about that).

      Why wiuld a new person have an advantage? Maybe they don’t have pre-conceived notions and the answers. A new person is a fresh new book with blank pages he has filled in for all to read.

      I am not trying to say I have the answer. I have one of the solves. I will say I have the answer when I have the chest.

      Soon I hope now that I have recovered.

      • @ Arrrrrrrrrrrrg

        Got tired of counting how many r’s were needed to correctly spell your name. May be a few extras.

        “He once told a reporter he would not say what the home of the Brown is, if he did then they would go get the chest. (Think about that).”

        I have been thinking about that for a few months now. It’s important as you pointed out. I think it’s similar in format to the Blaze. IMHH&DOpinion there exists at least 2 larger scale blazes and homes of Brown regionally and then a spot on blaze and a same for home of Brown which is brown and is a home. IMO

  133. I’m not sure that the poem and the treasure were ever designed to have a connection for 1,000/10,000 yrs. I think the poem is for the here and now and the future possible finding of the treasure will be like the discovery of the Rosetta Stone. IMO

    • True, but I think you are overlooking an important fact. Based on Fenn’s promotion of the treasure, it will survive as a legion. I’m sure treasure hunters then will still be trying to seek it out from wherever it is.

  134. What follows, is only my observations.

    When it comes to having the treasure last for 100+ years, I always believed that Forrest was looking to establish his own place in history. Forrest has lived a full life, more than most. He has worked hard to provide for his family, made friends with some very prominent people, earned a substantial income and at the same time he was able to incorporate his own personal pleasures (archeology, history, etc.) into his life. Basically, he is a self-made man. Imagine an Olympic runner attempting to break a world’s record for speed. He gives it his all. Well, Forrest didn’t spend a couple of years on the poem to have it found in the first few years, he spent 15 years creating it. That’s an Olympic runner for you.

    Fifteen years out of a person’s life creating this is very hard to imagine. I feel sometimes that I would be amiss to touch it or remove it from its’ location if I found it. Not only that, but to think I was holding 15 years of a man’s life in my hands and now I had a responsibility to see good come from those 15 years. Forrest once said, that he would like to see a deserving person find it, or words to that effect. Let’s hope that’s the case.

    • GG – Your observations must ring true for many of us who have been lucky enough to search during years when Forrest has time and energy to “play” the game with us through his scrapbooks & interviews. He’s what makes it fun and interesting for me. Funny, most of us have never met Forrest but feel like he is a friend through media. Out of respect for who he is and his generosity, if I found the chest during his lifetime on earth, I would simply return it all to him and ask for a trinket from the chest as a keepsake; then beg for a tour of his collections. As much time as any put into research and searching, you still can’t really earn a priceless treasure. It’s a gift.

      (If I was starving with 5 kids my needs may direct my actions differently.)

      • 42 you are an interesting person. How about if you knew where the treasure was I’m talking exactly but didn’t claim it for whatever reason. Isn’t that the same as forrest being in possession of it?

    • Amy, great question. Others I think about: what temptations would I face given that amount of gold or treasure? Spend the gold on things I like or on helping others? What treasures could I keep and still pay the IRS their due? How obligated to family members who helped am I? It’s a lot to think about. In the end, I would be happier with a keepsake from the chest and let Forrest re-hide it or decide what to do.

    • Amy the only one that can answer that question is the mastermind himself and he is quoted as saying the person who deserves the chest is the one who solves the poem.

  135. Interestingly enough, i was on a science website looking up some info on high altitudes, and found out that “warm water” is actually classified (by science anyway) as water between 115 and 120 degrees Fahrenheit …

  136. Since I had Jenny’s page open perusing some questions again, here is one from Becky:

    Can the blaze be pre-determined by the poem or can it only be determined at the search area?- becky

    Becky, you are a rascal to ask that question and I have been sitting here for about fifteen minutes trying to decide what to say. Well, it has been thirty minutes now and I think I’ll pass on the question. Sorry.f

    Why, didn’t Forrest answered the question? Because the answer is either:

    1) BOTH (which I believe to be true). First blaze, that I mentioned, is determined from the poem and also there is the real blaze right there at water high. I’ve seen it.

    2) Predetermined by the poem – and back again to the “X” 😀

    3) Determined at the search area – which is not saying much since everybody is looking for one in the field, therefore he shouldn’t have spent thirty minutes of his life thinking about it, but answer “determined in the field”. 15 seconds tops 😀

    No matter how you cut it, “blaze pre-determined by the poem” is part of the answer, and in fact Forrest’s answer is quite revealing in itself.

    • Just to be pre-emptive… Forrest could have also answered “no comment” so to speak, or better yet don’t answer at all. I’m sure that there are a lot more questions put forward that he doesn’t answer… who’s to tell?

      But HE DID answer, and told us that it took him 30 minutes to decide not to answer 😛

      • He could have just answered “yes” or “no” and we would still speculate about its meaning. That is why compound questions are not advisable and often not answered.

    • The none answer IMO, is the same as buried vs hidden. some would say covered is buried others would say below ground level is covered. Both can be correct and wrong depending on ones view.

      The same for the Blaze it can be both, The understanding of what is being looked in the poem and how to see it on a search. The real question is…is the blaze tangible?

      Yes I know, fenn said- Paraphrasing- it could be feasible to remove it…. remove it from where?

      There could be another reason, The blaze is found in the poem and created in the field.
      So how can you answer if, the Blaze can pre-determined by the poem or can it ONLY be determined at the search area?

      just an opinion.

  137. {} … I agree with your excellent interpretation of WWWH as Colters hell (aka Yellowstone Park) and that Dante’s inferno matches nicely metaphorically; although CS Lewis’s Screwtape Letters fit Forrest’s fun personality better than Dante when considering hell roaring deception or punishment.

    • I looked at Colters Hell for awhile…but the problem with the whole park as WWWH is that gives you a few hundred canyons to follow down..
      So I felt there had to be something more specific.

      Some people who use a specific place in YNP as WWWH follow the canyon down until it leaves the park. The park itself being the home of Brown…referring to the brown uniforms that the park officials wear…
      I am not in love with this concept either..
      I think Brown is something much more appropriate for a capital “B”

      Others have used the Grizzly Bear Management areas mapped out by the Forest Service and the Department of Fish and Wildlife as the home of Brown (grizzlies) that one should put in below.

      This doesn’t ring true with me either because in one hundred years will anyone be able to recall where those management areas were located? It would require more than just the poem to find that out.

      By the way..the feds are reporting that fewer bears were killed last year around YNP..

      • I have also been pursuing “Brown Earth” with a capital B. It is found north of the equator in Europe but also found in the US in the south and eastern areas. I don’t have but a crude map online showing the area but it looks like it is outside our RMA, but might be at the edges. It is found near deciduous forests for example.

  138. A man buys a pet parrot and brings him home. But the parrot starts insulting him and gets really nasty, so the man picks up the parrot and tosses him into the freezer to teach him a lesson. He hears the bird squawking for a few minutes, but all of a sudden the parrot is quiet. The man opens the freezer door, the parrot walks out, looks up at him and says, “I apologize for offending you, and I humbly ask your forgiveness.”
    The man says, “Well, thank you. I forgive you.”
    The parrot then says, “If you don’t mind my asking, what did the chicken do?”

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