The Nine Clues…….Part Thirtyfour


This is the place to discuss the nine clues…For instance:
What are the nine clues…
Is the first clue “Begin it where warm waters halt” ?


This post has now been moved to the archive and a new Nine Clues page has been established.


921 thoughts on “The Nine Clues…….Part Thirtyfour

  1. Did I say something dangerous without my hard hat on and get the last 9 clues shut down for violating osha regs?

  2. I’m calling osha if German Guy doesn’t turn back on the lights! I keep tripping over {} the brackets left in the middle of the line.

    • You’re out of luck. Dal loaned it out and it hasn’t been returned yet.

      What’s it been Dal? Four years now? You know the one I’m talking about, the one you wrote on toilet paper.

    • Good question, Spallies! I want to see the blueprints. Is there an architectural print house where I can pay for a set? I’d like to submit a bid. I know one “young biddie” that would like to know.

      I know what Forrest would say to that. “The poem is the blueprint”. Who wouldn’t see that coming, right? Every party needs a pooper that’s we invited him. Wait! It’s his party and he can poop if he wants to…well…if he’s been getting enough fiber anyway. 🙂 What I mean is…he can’t be the party pooper if it’s HIS party, right? So maybe one of US is the pooper. It’s like a game of CLUE! “Who pooped on the party?”

      I call NOT IT! 🙂 Maybe it’ll turn into a game of tag…except with poop flinging. We’ll turn this site into a home of brown before anybody even knew what hit them. 🙂

  3. {} – you say some interesting things and have had my attention since some of your earlier posts. Lately, however, it almost seems like a different person writing your copy. I don’t mean to offend, but there is enough confusion that I am still not convinced that you wrote the poem in Scrapbook 94: Only the Phantom. For starters, why would the highly intelligent and super well read Mr. Fenn refer to it as a take-off from Edgar Allen Poe’s, “Quote the Raven Nevermore”, when that is neither the title of that famous work nor an accurate phrasing from the poem itself. From my observation, Mr. Fenn only seems to make mistakes like that when he intends to. One would then have to infer that Mr. Fenn is the real Phantom.

    So perhaps you would be willing to explain one of the lines in that poem that has intrigued me: “looking through the prism of a vodka, raspberry and lime.”? That is not a normal drink, but conveys a meaning to me. Indulge me, what does it mean? And don’t say it was just some random ingredients you threw into a cocktail one night. That would be a disappointing dodge.

    • Spoon, great question! Lights back on, I’m staying up to hear the answer.

      No dodging and weaving {}

    • Spoon,

      Sorry to disappoint, and no offence been taken 🙂

      Here’s what I think. I as put more and more tidbits about my solution out there, you start to see something that diverges from your own solution, and of course you start believing that I’m not the same guy because of the uncanny “vodka raspberry and lime” match to yours, you think I have the same one.

      Well, I’m afraid that it’s going to be one more disappointment for you, but it is a quasi random verse.
      As I was driving back home through the mountains, I kept mulling over this one stanza. I needed a rhyme for “mime” and mentally sorting through words I focused on “lime”; right after that came “vodka” of course 🙂 , then I needed a three syllable word and “raspberry” jumped at me, because “rosemary and thyme”. After that it came the “prism” rhyme and the whole inebriated sort of thing.
      The last two verses are a translation of my favourite poet.

      When we got to the first stop, nature calling, I jotted down the whole stanza fearing that I might forget some of it. I still have that piece of paper in the pocket of a jacket somewhere.

      As I said before, the Phantom in my poem is Forrest. That’s why he wishes to be 44 (ounces instead of years because it’s funny that way) just like in Mirror on My Wall chapter.

      Anyway, now I’m intrigued by your take on that verse.
      Maybe some time later you’ll let me know. I’m curious but can wait 🙂

      • you know what? It’s that kind of quixotic weirdness that’ll find the trove. Mark my word. Darn you!

      • Hi {} and thanks for responding. The vodka, raspberry and lime phrase was never part of my solution, but other things in the Phantom poem definitely are. And many are so cleverly disguised, really Fenn-like. But I never understood the whole poem – certainly not the 44 ounces thing – just some of the beginning parts and ending parts stuck out at me. Also some of your follow-up posts rang true. I’m not sure why anyone would give away those solutions, even “encoded” when no one else on this blog or any other appears to be going in that direction.

        Well since you say it was a meaningless phrase then I guess there is no harm in revealing it: vodka (water), raspberry (aggregate) and lime make concrete.

        You continue to intrigue me with your little misspellings and such (again, almost Fenn-like), but your posts of late almost seem like subterfuge to those who might have figured out your real solution. If you have done this to keep it interesting than I believe you have succeeded. For instance, I don’t know what the significance of December 21 is and am pretty sure you wouldn’t be able to find the chest on that date, but it did get me thinking.

        Tell me, why DO you suppose Mr. Fenn botched the title/line of “The Raven”?

        • ‘Tell me, why DO you suppose Mr. Fenn botched the title/line of “The Raven”?’ – Spoon

          In the poem “The Raven”, The raven perched on the bust of Pallas, the goddess of wisdom in Greek mythology, above his chamber door. Pallas is Athena and of course the Roman God equivalent is Minerva. Well you know where you heard that before?

          • The Raven was written in a place called The General Wayne inn outside of Philadelphia….the town of Wayne which is not far away is the town which Valley Forge Military Academy is in..which is the school that JD Salinger based his school on in “The Catcher in the Rye’…..

          • Wolf, spoon -Not botched, but purposeful as in all fennisms.
            But his veiled meanings and intelligence elude me at least 75% of the time. How about you, any ideas or guesses?
            I’m doing something concrete helping this week with CASA national adoption day preparations. Glad those little ones will no longer be guessing where they will live next week. Such a wonderful thing for kids to have permanent loving families embrace them with loving arms – real treasure!

          • Interesting… Good work, Wolfman.

            I took it another way: Per, the Raven is the divine culture hero and trickster of the North Pacific Coast Indians. Sounds like Fenn, doesn’t it? To quote is to repeat, so I thought it was Fenn and he was repeating his tricky clues in another fashion. I also thought it was funny that he said the author wanted to “remain anon”. Instead of anon meaning anonymous, I took it to mean the word “anon”, literally, which can mean at another time or again. So the phrase “remain anon” could mean to live again – i.e. repeat his tricks/deception. I really liked that interpretation.

        • Sorry Spoon, I forgot to mention the reason the tiltle was blotched was to signify a hint is surrounding the poem, my explanation is one of the hints contained within the poem.

          • Hey Wolf – I glossed over your response earlier but now that I reread it, it intrigues me. Are you saying that Forrest wrote the intro AND the poem, or are you saying that Forrest wrote the intro the way he did because the person that sent him the poem happened to get one or more things right?

        • Hey Spoon,
          Glad to hear that vodka is not part of your solution, God knows that sometimes I feel… kidding, kidding 🙂
          If one of the posts of late that you allude to is about Colter’s Hell being WWWH, I didn’t post it as a subterfuge.

          A searcher was putting forth the theory about a dried up hot spring as WWWH and I did consider Colter’s Hell myself as a possible starting point. I don’t anymore because it’s too far from Santa Fe, but as I mentioned, Colter’s Hell has quite a few things going for it including the proximity to Cody. Basically is on the outskirts of the town and soon will be swallowed by it.
          It still holds a place on my list, as there is Cedar Mountain nearby that could be THE wood. There we also have Buffalo Bill dam, and I believe, based on Forrest and his bike throwing comment, that “heavy loads and water high” is a dam and its reservoir.
          Yeah, I know I’ll get a lot of flack for this last one 🙂 but I do believe that Forrest is genuinely sincere in his comments, and I take them at face value, and a deep lake makes a lot of sense in that instance.

          I have a silly affinity for Dec 21.
          My last name is traced etymological to pagan rituals held at winter solstice, and also was baptised on that date after Saint Stephen, which has his day around that time 🙂

          • So you think it’s near Santa Fe? Can we assume then that your “where eagles nest” reference in the poem is to Eagle Nest Lake?

  4. Wow, you all were busy while everyone was sleeping in FL!

    I wish I had time to read every post on this blog, but wintertime in FL at an orthopedic surgeon’s office means BUSY.

    I’ll just throw a couple thoughts out there that I’m not sure anyone has mentioned or not–I just don’t have as much time lately to research like I would like to. :/

    1. In my opinion, the chest is hidden on BLM land, which narrows down the search area a great deal.

    2. I also am leaning toward WY (south central to south west). Or to a lesser degree, NM.

    3. I found something interesting online (I’m sure others have found the same thing) about a location near Cora in WY.

    4. There is a very interesting HoB in that area as well.

    5. There seems to be a connection (probably many connections) between the story of R.I.P. in TFTW and the newest Scrapbook about the remote area near Devil’s Tower. He has also described in R.I.P. and the war story in TTOTC what I believe you have to do when “finding” the blaze.

    6. I believe the name of the chest is an important hint.

    7. I do believe the hiding of the chest was both a spiritual and redemptive journey for Mr. Fenn.

    8. I also believe that there is significance in the “golden mean” as it relates to the Alphabet, but have not figured it out yet. I am notoriously horrible at math.

    9. I believe there is quite possibly a map hidden in the poem, and once it is solved (as in “solve for x.”), it will take you to a very, very specific location and there will be absolutely no doubt.

    Just my thoughts before an extra long day of explaining the anatomy of hips, knees, and shoulders to snowbirds as well as taking 77 or more X-rays. But I love my job! 🙂

    Have a great day, everyone!

  5. Has anybody been to X spot in the Pecos
    Wilderness? I once thought that may have been the hiding spot for the treasure except this would have been above 10 200 feet above sea level.

  6. @Dal,
    Reference your post and in particular this quote: “People have been trying to make hot springs and geysers work as WWWH from the beginning…but the problem is that the warm water keeps moving…and may stop in a lake or a stream of just slowly cools down…where does it “halt”?”

    Normally, I have ignored this kind of banter in the past but since your words carry significant influence in the minds of the searchers, I felt it would be best to offer a counter opinion so that we do not totally ignore a “straight forward” clue solution. He did say the clues were straight forward didn’t he?

    After you wrote “F marks the spot… Or Not” from one of your first stories you included this quote from Forrest’s email referencing your Mamby Hot Springs WWWH clue:

    “I wonder how many times Manby and Dunn swirled the warm water around their cold bodies on a February morning so many years ago. f” Gee he even says that is warm water.

    The definition of the verb “halt” (from Merriam) is: to cause the discontinuance of or to bring to a stop.

    Too me those two fact makes perfect sense that a hot pot (stones arranged in a CIRCLE beside a river to trap hot water) or hot spring (like Mamby) could be the perfect WWWH because, the water is originally hot and mixes with the cold water from the river and this warm water is held within the surrounding rock pool. It halts because when it flows into the river it instantly becomes cold and thus by definition halts at the pool. Here is a picture of Mamby Hot Spring

    This concept also makes sense because he asked you to take a picture of the exact spot where he river bathed for his tftw book cover. Does that not mean anything to anyone? If not then what is special to Mr. Fenn? Are those fond childhood memories of him bathing in that warm river hot spring not special to him when he thinks back to those childhood days?

    Finally you state: “Additionally, there are so many hot springs and geysers…it would be impossible to tell which one Forrest had in mind if this were in fact WWWH…”

    I think that is the perfect reason to qualify as an excellent WWWH or beginning point! Did he not say this quest was going to be difficult? Did he not say only a few are discovering the initial point? I mean really, this chase would be over if there was only a couple of these out there. So which one then is the correct one? Well I suggest that the poem, his book TTOTC and a good map are excellent resources that direct you precisely to which one of the thousands is the correct one. I will add a little logic wouldn’t hurt as well.

    Ohhh and one last thing before I get off my peach basket, he said only a few have solved the first two clues. He did not say how many got only the first clue correct, there could be a whole lot more searchers doing just that! Think about that one for a while!

    The Wolf

    • Wolf-
      Some day we should sit down and have a beer and talk about this face to face…
      It’s an interesting discussion…

      A couple things..
      Forrest never asked me to go to his exact bathing place (Ojo Caliente) and get photos of his bathing place..
      He did suggest I go there and take a bath…lol…

      He also asked me to go there and take some photos and video of the grass swaying in the current ..You will remember that he wrote how that swaying grass reminded him of his daughter’s waving hair.

      I decided on my own to take pics of where the hot water from the actual spring meets the Firehole River, about 40 feet from the hot spring and write a story about my experience there. Forrest also wrote in his story about the hot spring at Ojo Caliente called “River Bathing is Best”, that you could move around down in the river to find just the right temperature. This is true because the hot water from the spring mixes with the cooler water of the river creating an area of “mixed” temperature water where you can be warmer or cooler just by moving your body a few inches in one direction or another. I also wrote about this effect in my story. In my opinion there is no halting of hot or warm or cool water in that area. There is a mixing…and that’s all it is…”my opinion”. I feel so strongly about this that I have no desire to search in that area or in any other hot spring area. Many springs and black rock springs all do the same thing…hot or warm water mixes with cooler water and eventually flows away from the area. It does not halt.

      So I felt none of these warranted more examination than I had already given them. I eventually looked at Manby, Black Rock and Ojo Calientes in both Yellowstone and New Mexico to see if they would meet what I feel are the primary requisites needed to fulfill the requirements of “halting”. None did. Furthermore I did not see any reason to associate any of these places with Forrest’s poem and I feel that it is important to remember that we ONLY need the poem to find the treasure. So any other information is just noise that will not be needed and possibly not available 100 years from now. I needed a place that someone would be able to identify as a natural place where warm water halts without reading any stories from Forrest. I wanted to find a place that stood out as a WWWH location without being influenced by what Forrest has written. If I could find that place then I felt folks could also find that place in a hundred or a thousand years.

      Now “halt” is a pretty emphatic word. It is not simply an english word. It also appears in other languages in that exact form and slightly altered forms. In the military, the word “halt” is a command.
      “Halt! Who goes there?”
      I too have Wikipedia and know how to Google a word or phrase and can find new things all the time about the English language and the world I live in…and the word halt. I have seen folks provide other meanings for the word. But the one I think is most commonly accepted and the one almost certainly everyone who has been in the military associates with “halt” is to immediately stop.

      As far as I am concerned “HALT” is not a term that is ambivalent in any way.
      Halt means stop…NOW…
      When your company commander gives the marching order “Company halt!”, he does not expect the company to slow down and eventually stop. He expects them to stop immediately.
      There are other similar examples but my point is that in common American English use..”halt” means stop…

      So, for me, I needed to find a place where warm waters (plural) definitely halt. I thought this place needed to be unique and easy to identify using a map or by visiting the area. In fact, it occurred to me that this place should be a place identified as a halting of warm water by earlier explorers..maybe even Native Americans.

      So I began by examining Native American stories that contained in their English translation the phrases “warm water” or “hot water”. I found several. Of these most were alluding to general areas or to “other world” places and could not be attributed to a finite location. I spent the better part of a year looking into these stories but in the end I only found two physical places and neither of them seemed likely to be Forrest’s WWWH. I fooled around with one spiritual location at Ojo Caliente in New Mexico. That led me to Tres Peidras, NM and Forrest has pointed out that I was looking in the wrong place when I published that story on the blog.

      Next I began looking at early explorers and pioneers. I found hundreds of references and began looking at them as starting places and seeing what happened when I moved through the canyon down and on and on..

      I kept in mind that this place would have to have a narrative that would be meaningful 100 or more years from the far as I could tell about such a future.

      It did not take long before I ran across what I consider to be the most likely place for WWWH. It is documented. It is historical. It is geographical. It is inside Yellowstone which is interesting. Its narrative will be told for hundreds of years as long as humans have an interest in retelling the history of the park. And just for added measure of comfort it involves waters that Forrest has told us about on his blog, in his books, in interviews and on this blog.

      So why then is this place not the “only”, “primary” “best” or most well know possible WWWH location. I can only explain that by making four points.
      1. Many people think it is too simple to be the starting point.
      2. Many people don’t have the tools to recognize it as a WWWH
      3. Many people think that WWWH is not a physical location
      4. Many people feel that WWWH is not the place where we should begin.

      I know that I am not the first by a long shot to consider this place. Others, with more geographical knowledge of the region have used it from the very beginning…which is good since we know that folks have gotten the first couple of clues correct and since we know that some folks have been close to the treasure. So, from a lot of angles, this place makes sense to me as WWWH. And to me this is the start of my path to the treasure. I realize it is not everyone’s cup of tea with Olga.

      And it’s fine…in fact preferred… if folks go some other way. I am not trying to convince others that my spot is correct. There are as many interpretations out there as there are humans. The poem is not a “my way or the highway” type of document. It requires interpretation. I don’t need anyone to argue with me about the spot. It is my opinion and my opinion will not change just because someone else believes something else. It’s a little like arguing religion…This is what I believe. In a year I may change my mind, but it won’t be based on any argument here. It will be based on trial and error and a decision to try something else.

      However, what I would like people to realize is that I have visited a few dozen different places that I thought could be WWWH. Some fantastic, some very down to earth. Some places would no longer qualify because they have been eliminated by new information from Forrest. I certainly liked many of them…but the one I am using right now seems the most likely to me…not to Wolf…just to me and perhaps many others.

      I have given this spot up previously on this blog. So I think many who have been around here know the place I am taking about. But let me say that if this spot is correct, knowing it will not make it easy for anyone to find the treasure. It is only the first step in a path that has hundreds of possible courses. It may appear at first, that there are only a few choices to be made…but the more you explore it, the more possibilities you will see. So a great number of choices need to be made after the first…

      Finally, I believe that even if I were to make all the correct choices and end up near the correct location…I would in all likelihood go right by it and not recognize it. This chest is hidden good…really good and I think that’s the real reason no one has found it. Not because they have not been near it…but because they walked right by it.

      Of course all this is speculation on my part…

      So, my WWH location for those who have not read it elsewhere on this blog is the confluence of the Firehole and Gibbon Rivers Yellowstone National Park.

      This place is celebrated on all maps of the park and histories of the park as Madison Junction. There is a campground there and a ranger station and book store.

      Madison Junction is an odd name for the place because the Madison doesn’t actually meet with any other rivers there…as a junction typically would indicate. Instead, the Madison River “begins” at this point. I believe Forrest has told us to start at the “beginning”. You will need to look at a map of the area to see what actually happens here but since the first white explorers examined this area they came to the conclusion that two rivers end here and a new river starts.

      Further, the Gibbon and the Firehole rivers are known to be the two warmest rivers in the park. Trout flee out of these rivers in summer because the temperature is just too warm.

      So…two very warm rivers end in this spot..Firehole, Gibbon…
      This is the spot where two warm water rivers halt.
      This is the spot where warm WATERS halt.
      It is also the beginning because it is the spot where the Madison River begins.

      If you like this spot…explore it on maps and photos and read about it in various publications. If it still interest’s you, visit it after the snow has melted…in this area that means early June, most years. But be careful…

      Don’t jump to any conclusions about what the next step might be. There are many choices to be made.

      • Spellcheck does not like the name Ojo Caliente and constantly corrects it to Ojo Client …I think I went back and made the corrections…but if you see any Ojo Client…
        it is supposed to be Ojo Caliente….

        • Dal,

          When you type in “Ojo” and “Cliente” (separately), right click your mouse and select ‘add to dictionary’.

        • Dal, Just to mention this halt…..
          a suspension of movement or activity, typically a temporary one.
          “a halt in production”

          • I just read an article about fishing that talked about in cold climates the consistent warm water technically being in middle depths due to the cold bottom density and rise and fall of ice etc. there’s actually a specific name for this “warm zone” in the middle. The concept is similiar to “Brownian” motion in particle theory as well.

          • Yes it is ,and very interesting , I found a ” connect the dot’s , like the Riemannian manifold, Wow you r a smart one =)
            Most people never even herd of that …
            Well Done miss Well Done… This helped my understanding. Cool

          • Yes , one thing in the Brownien concept, all partials are moving which causes friction heat , kinetic… it almost sounded like it was moving… But, very cool….

      • Dal,

        I read through your lengthy reasoning regarding WWWH.

        I feel that there is another way of addressing WWWH and it involves focusing not so much on the word ‘halt’, but rather the word ‘warm’. There are so many more explanations for ‘warm’, then exist for ‘halt’. Knowing how Fenn likes ‘his’ words, no matter how you look at it, the word ‘halt’ is limited in it’s usefulness to both him and us( My opinion of course, but worth considering). ‘Warm’ on the other hand opens more avenues to us as it may have to Forrest.

        • german-
          I guess I wasn’t clear. I’m not struggling at all with WWWH. I am not looking for any other way to consider what Forrest means by WWWH.
          I have found something that works perfectly for me. I was simply explaining to others what my process was and where my WWWH is located and why I think it’s correct.
          I admit it could easily be wrong…
          and once I’ve disqualified it as a logical WWWH I will then try something else but right now I am pretty comfortable with that place.

      • I like your reasoning Dal. My favorite idea for WWWH was a dam and was sorry that was taken off the table but the confluence idea is a good one too.

        • It stands to reason that simply because he eliminated a dam, does not necessarily eliminate the reservoir. Read the wording of the entire statement. Just thinking “outside the dam” 😉

          • I suppose a lake created by a dam might be able to be considered WWWH but if I were to pick a lake for my WWWH, it would have been Yellowstone Lake as it is VERY cold even with lots of warm waters flowing into it. I just couldn’t make the rest of the clues fit as well as I would have liked but I may look into that again.

      • “I don’t think earth can hurt it, under the right conditions wind might affect it, it’s probably already wet, and look at what fire did to the twin towers.”

        Reading this comment from Forrest is very telling. “Wind might effect it”, says that it is open to the elements, especially when “it’s probably already wet” is then stated. The last reference to fire, supports his earlier comments of being scorched. So, I think we can all agree that the chest is not buried or in a cave.

      • @Dal,
        Whoa we should go for a beer – I drink Guinness! Hey I was not challenging your spot at all but only challenging your bold statement of not believing in hot springs based on the definition of halt.

        Couple of points to note from your retort.
        1) It doesn’t matter where you took the photo it only matters where Forrest wanted you to take it and the concept of river bathing. I think he is much to clever to actually give up the exact spot but a spot similar to the one(s) he mentioned could bring back those childhood memories – thus special.

        2) Halt – doesn’t mean stop immediately. If you recall your Marine training the command halt is given on the left foot and two more paces are taken with the right foot coming down at the point of ceasing movement. So technically halt is a slowing to an immediate stop. That said I would never make an assumption this bold and only consider one definition but only be cognizant of it.

        Finally, I do agree that a river confluence is a suitable solution to WWWH, but I have been hesitant to even look within Yellowstone for many reasons, one being it is too obvious and I can see many people already considering that location. I have always felt if it was within Yellowstone, someone would have solved this long ago, but there is always a chance I suppose.

        I probably had a couple more things to say but I don’t have time to reread your post – ha ha!

      • Dal,

        That’s a very concise explanation of your wwwh, which you have discussed before. It’s clear that you believe that “Halt means stop…NOW…”. That definition might be argued to be the most legitimate meaning of halt in this context, despite other definitions. I may also add that the idea of halt can mean “go no further”…

        Now let’s take your definition of halt and apply it to Madison Junction. This is the beginning of the Madison River, and the ends of both the Gibbon and the Firehole. This understanding is based upon the identities that we have given the rivers, and they should be lasting ones. But this is how they were chosen to be named. Curiously enough, when I look at that area on GM, the Gibbon is mislabeled as the Madison, so it appears that the Firehole is simply flowing into the Madison! It could have easily been named that way, without the Gibbon, but was not. It was someone’s determination that the Madison starts here at the confluence of two separate rivers (interesting history), and it could be argued that way based upon how the rivers intersect.

        However, how do the flowing warm waters, which preceded the river names, halt? How do they: stop…NOW? Essentially the waters known as Firehole and the waters known as Gibbon flow into each other forming a single, flow of water. But warm waters do not come to a halt or stop. The Madison begins by identity, not by waters that are continuous and moving. And the Madison is comprised of the Gibbon and Firehole waters, so its water is just as warm as the waters that meet at the junction.

        I might say that what occurs at Madison Junction is that two warm RIVERS end, a shared end, but warm WATERS do not end or halt. So for your logic to work, then end = halt; the ends of the Firehole and the Gibbon are where they halt. I’m not saying it’s wrong, and that could be Forrest’s intent, I am analyzing it from this view with a different twist.


        • I don’t disagree with you. In fact, that’s what I’d hoped to say…just used more words 🙂

          The water doesn’t stop and that is fine with me. It’s the rivers that stop. They stop dead in the same place that a new river starts….and the two rivers that stop are both very warm rivers.

          It works on many levels and many definitions of the word “halt”…

          A perfect historic square knot..where all have agreed to agree that this is what happens there…

          • Hmm interesting view Dal, so just to clarify the only thing that’s stopping is the warm not the waters. My solution has the waters completely stopping, arrested contained. I can see how this is difficult could go either way, that Forrest is a fox.

          • Ed-
            Nope. My solution has the two warm rivers stopping at that point. No question about it for me. For others it might be a problem but not for me…and I assume not for Forrest… 🙂

        • Some excellent ideas here. In thinking about how one perceives the meaning of Halt, It’s interesting that the meaning is not being change, but if we twist it a bit … it works.

          Twisted Multiple Meaning !

    • Wolf-
      The TFTW book cover photo is not from the place where Forrest bathed. The place where Forrest bathed is at Ojo Caliente..Maybe 20 miles away. I was asked by Forrest to take a photo along the Madison that could be used with his shadow on the cover. His request for that photo did not involve Ojo Caliente in any way.

  7. Is it possible that “where warm waters halt” could mean an area that is remote from warm water? Instead of a warm spring that bubbles up or flows into a colder creek or river. Maybe “where warm waters halt” is just a remote water source with no nearby warm water. Like if you were camping and had to heat water because there’s no warm water nearby. Just subscribing.

    • I think that is a possibility–as good as what many others are proposing. Now where does that fit?

  8. Halt doesn’t just mean “stop” or to cause the discontinuance of or to bring to a stop.

    Halt can mean, a change in direction or a temporary disturbance of motion.
    without stopping……….Just a thought.

    Maybe that will help narrow the Hot Spring theory down to … 75 or a 100 spots.

    Which raises the question, is WWWH a definite single place only? or means something like Hot Springs or warm waters anything that Forces a searcher looking at many spot? Fenn did state [ paraphrasing ] there are many WWH in the Rocky Mountains , most are North of Santa Fe…..

    I don’t like that , I don’t like that at all……….something doesn’t make sense to me.

      • Exactly, Halt in the change of direction. Not unlike driving a car North and halting the northerly direction because of a road closure and forcing you to steer the car to the east.

        Just don’t hit the barricade the workers put up… that will bring you to the other meaning of halt.

        Halt can be used in a horizontal flow of a river to a vertical flow of a water fall. The sudden drop halt the waters original direction. and if there’s a hot spring up top, ya got warm waters halt.

        Or are you saying a bend in a river can be called a halt?

    • @Seeker,
      I agree that halt doesn’t just mean stop, it means many other things as well (don’t want to let out all the secrets), but to make my point I kept it simple to what Dal said specifically.

      I am not sure what you don’t like about Fenn’s statement, it makes a lot of sense … “many WWWH north of Santa Fe”. Not sure what not to like about that. Also think of the word “waters”, Notice that he did not say “water”, suggesting more than one. If you factor that in your search, it is narrowed down further.

      The Wolf

      • Wolf, the problem is theory and method in trying to figure out the poem. Hypothetical… If WWWH, the place to start in the poem, Is a clue, is the first clue…and fenn is saying there are many of them…Hot springs , water falls, a lake with no drainage, etc. a searcher, even if they narrowed it down to one of those choices, Would have many many points to start searching.. eveb narrowing it more with your example in your post. Not to mention the time it would take.

        Again it’s all about the theory and method used…..My theory is simpler, as to ALL waters are warm till they change, As you know….

        Now the dilemma is with my theory being, not just of the change, but of time… yep I don’t like that comment AT’ALL.

        Been trying to work through it but it’s the only statement made, that i can’t rationalize. My only conclusion is Mr. Fenn Must be mistaken….what else could it be?????????

        yep that’s the ticket!

        • Seeker,
          Just to clarify, I think you are saying there are many (too many) sources of WWWH. I concur that concepts like clouds (cloud 9) and continental divide are too vague as a source of WWWH. However, with a hot spring it is very specific to a local spot even though there are thousands. What I was trying to say is that sometimes there are more than one spring (or hot pot) at the same location under the same name. That is where it helps to narrow it down. For instance Mamby (not necessarily suggest this one) has two pools and thus clarifying the word “waters”.

          I acknowledge this is difficult for many to get their head around especially if it does not match their concept. I believe there are two main problems that a typical searcher will automatically eliminate themselves from the chase:
          1) their initial concepts are correct but applied the theory in the wrong geographical area and they will never waiver from their original location and grasping at ever straw and stretching the clues until they get a match; or
          2) they concede too early that they were wrong on their initial concept (initial concepts are usually pretty close) and then go onto much more complicated concepts making the problem much more difficult and imaginative than necessary before checking out all sources of the original concept.

          I believe, the successful searcher will recognize which of their initial instincts were valid but will be humble enough to know that they were wrong and as such they will be open to changing what is necessary to get to the end in a logical manor. This unfortunately for many will involve a total restart. Those that find themselves returning to the same location over and over again may want to read this twice!

        • I think that the second stanza, taken as a whole, yields the first clue. WWWH may be a double clue. In the first place, it refers to a hot spring located in a (sometimes) cold environment. Secondly, if you think of a period at the end of a sentence as an instruction to halt, WWWH could be equated with http://www., which in turn may be a hint to use the internet liberally in your searching.

          i think that there are three main clues which point us towards the correct hot spring. The first is the awkward use of the word “Put” in close proximity to the capital B in Brown. Pb is the symbol for lead in the periodic table. “Lead + home = Leadville, which was the home of Molly Brown. The second is the provision of a rough distance scale: ” not far, but too far to walk.” The third is the number of lines and stanzas, respectively, in the poem: 24 and 6. If you travel from Leadville north on Route 24 and then west on Route 6 for about 88 miles, you reach Glenwood Springs, one of the largest and most popular hot spring destinations in the country. In addition to being “not far, but too far to walk” from Leadville, it is also “down” from there by over 4000 ft.

          Finally, I’ve suggested in the past that each of the nine clues has a confirming “twin” located somewhere else in the poem. Go to the first two lines of the last stanza. Take the letters of “listen good” and borrow the w from “worth” just below. (I’ve proposed before that the basic technique for extracting the nine clues involves taking letters from the beginnings and endings of adjacent words and putting them together, e.g. Sloane and Hinrichs in the first stanza).

          These letters yield: It’s Glenwood.

          In short, think that WWWH refers to the first clue, which is Glenwood Springs, CO.

          • Hi Eliza, as we all know Forrest has said this:

            Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.

            When I persented an idea to the group like yours involving mixing words together, possibly like a cipher, it was not well received. I do like your ideas though and I continue to try a variety of things.

            Did you notice in Forrest’s quote above he mentions drones? That has nothing to do with words, language, etc. Interesting.

          • Thanks Peter. I am very familiar with that quote and think that the words “code” and “cipher” may have been misinterpreted. Forrest also said that, once you have solved the poem, you can travel directly to the chest with confidence. We can infer from this that we must extract nine very specific directional clues from the poem. I think that the architect of the poem was very clever, relying primarily on simple anagrams, the letters for which are hidden with just the right amount of camouflage. This technique, is not, strictly speaking, a code or a cipher, because it relies on only a subset of the text. Reading the poem in plaintext, as astree has written, is a general guide to the solution but does not yield the actual clues.

            There are two reasons I like this approach. First, as I wrote earlier, each of the nine clues has a separate confirmer elsewhere in the poem. Secondly, if you take the first letter of each clue, they anagram to something highly meaningful. This feature appears to be an homage to Kit Williams’ puzzle Masquerade, which astree also mentioned recently.

    • Seeker-

      Yes, that statement was rather startling, and can be interpreted in a number of ways. Not only could it possibly help someone with understanding wwwh, but I believe it could equally as well sidetrack someone’s thinking who actually had it right. It’s a very peculiar thing to say, to even talk about wwwh in such a way. But there it is, and it’s part of the mix, and you can use it as you like or ignore it. You think he’s mistaken?

      wwwh…But then “All you have to do is think about the nine clues and follow them in order”, and keep in mind that “You need to start at the beginning. You need to figure out where warm waters halt.” Right, so you need to figure that out first, and not further on into the poem, because “You’ll never find it that way (with hoB, etc.). You need to start at the beginning. You need to figure out where warm waters halt.” So you have to focus on wwwh; “You have to find out, to learn where the first clue is. They get progressively easier after you discover where the first clue is”, or at least the author thinks so. And you might be asking yourself “But where do warm waters halt? Only the Phantom knows”.

      Some words in the poem may be more important than others, and “There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them. You over simplify the clues. There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts”. So despite the fact that there are many places in the Rockies where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe (but heck, most of the Rockies are north of Santa Fe…), it’s still true that “If you don’t know where warm water halts (sic), you don’t have anything.” So you need to know where warm waters halt, but bear in mind that the poem is not just a poem, but “It is an architectural plan.” So follow the plan and go build something.

      But for the searcher “The only requirement is that you figure out what the clues mean. But a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help.” That’s right. Your kids might “get it”, or “have an advantage”, but comprehensive knowledge of geography might still be useful. And don’t forget that “There is no substitute for thinking and planning and observing and looking at maps, unless it’s the desire to keep it simple.” Ah, simplicity; a great substitute.

      So where is this place? Just listen good that “In my reverie I often find myself stealing away to that place and I will always consider it to be mine alone”. It’s his secret where warm waters halt, his secret alone.


      • Halogetter,

        The quotes seem to relay a certain message, so thanks for that.

        The comment I made ” fenn must be mistaken” was said in fun… I should have put a smile face or something to make that understood. That, and I don’t “want” it to be true!

        Maybe for Xmas, he’ll retract that Q&A answer… LOL

      • You don’t have to donate anything in order to read and learn.
        The map speaks for itself.

        Begin at where warm waters halt.
        Begin at where tears interrupt
        Begin at where warm waters were interrupted

        Arkansas River Walkway is where Center For American Values is located.
        They have on display the Medal Of Honor Recipients in portrait and with quotes.
        The same as the Medal Of Honor Book

  9. You know, Forrest mentioned finding the end of his rainbow…rainbows appear as suns reflection off water usually rain, 42 degrees opposite light source. I’m thinking warm waters are rain, where halt is highest elevation they halt when falling down, not far but too far to walk, as crow flys in straight line, blaze is that line, landmakrs are mountains that have been here a thousand years and will prob be a thousand more from now. towns, lakes, watererways, wells, springs all change thanks to the changes men make, but mountains will endure.

    • Remember, just because the treasure is to be found north of Sante Fe in the Rocky mountains doesn’t neccesarily mean that all or any of the clues are there as well.

      • I with you on at 38….F mentions the book flywater in TTOTC and in that book there is a creek called warm water creek, or something along those lines, in Idaho…so I was thinking that it might start there and stated that on this blog before everyone yelled at me about how I was wrong….

        • clues-
          I think the disapproval you heard was from the many folks who believe all nine clues must also be within the four state area…which would not include Idaho. But I agree with you. only the chest is certain to be in that area. The clues could be on Mars…or beyond..

          Long before Forrest eliminated Idaho and Utah I looked at the Warm River in the Targhee Nat’l Forest. I think that’s what you mean…It halts, of course, at the Henry’s Fork near the Mesa Falls Scenic byway. Others have used that area for WWWH as well. Forrest would have been very familiar with that area.

          For me the problem was the next step…finding a suitable canyon down and on and on…

          I tried a couple of things but really could not end up in any area I felt would be suitable to be his final resting place…

          • I see how that makes sense now Dal, Thanks….
            Thanks 38….

            If I ever create my own treasure hunt I would put clues all over the country and you had to go to each place to find the next clue…I think that would be a wild ride…

          • The clues could be on Mars…or beyond..

            Dal we really should have that Guinness together, the irony is too much for me right now…

  10. Wolf, men are from Mars, women from Venus. No wonder I’m having difficulty solving clues, I’m on the wrong planet!
    -O- venus. *.o.*. Mars

    By the way, warm waters definitely halt on both planets.

  11. There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty to where I hid the treasure.f
    A man has been within striking distance but so have some women.f

    Think about those 2 comments. “close proximity” and “striking distance”.

    Reread as…

    There isn’t a human trail in striking distance to where I hid the treasure.
    A man has been within close proximity but so have some women.

    This should open doors to the chest’s physical location, as well as it’s physical surroundings.

    • When did Forrest makes those comments ?

      Do you think he would retract them as my wife would be mad if I had “women” with me ?

      • Check Jenny’s site under Q&A with Forrest.

        I don’t foresee any retractions in your future Ya-Sha-Wa 🙂

        • I really enjoy those Questions with Sixer…. I wish she would add more there hasnt been an update in over a week!

          • You’re right. I think Forrest is trying to keep us busy on Dal’s blog.

            BTW, I really enjoyed eating in China Town. Wife and I drove over there from Jersey almost monthly to eat good Chinese food. They always gave you samples of new dishes to try before you ordered. Could almost fill you up before you had a chance to order… 🙂

  12. This 100% off topic.

    The am in search of assistance.

    My cat Nene last night had to be rushed to the animal hospital.

    He had a urinary tract blockage that put him in a life threatening situation. He got sick very fast.

    He is going to have to stay till Friday. The estimated bill is $2971.28.

    I wouldn’t post this if I wasn’t in serious need.

    The name of the hospital is

    Ironwood Animal Hospital – Emerycency Care
    85 Combs Road
    Queen Creek, Az

    We originally took to one place where he was first treated to get him out of a critical emergency and transfered him here because it was $1000 cheaper for continued care. It is 35 miles away but that is worth the difference in price.

    If you can offer any assistance please go to:

    Thank you

    • Jan

      I’m sorry to hear about your cat 🙁

      I hope the poor little cat gets better.

      On Sunday my dog Sammy was attacked by something bad he managed to get away and came home with bite wounds to the hip and his legs were messed up with bite marks and one leg is swollen 🙁

      Today I took him to the vet they will do surgery on his wounds due to infection.

      Sammy was a stray dog one night we were cooking steaks and bless his heart he smelt the aroma and he was starving so we took him in and he has taken us in . He found a good home we love Sammy I know he wlll be ok after surgery and due to the antibiotics that he will receive .

      My bill will not be as much as yours
      Sure wish I could help 🙂

      • Thank you. So sorry to hear about your dog. I hope he gets better soon.

        Nene is not doing well today. They are thinking there may be mass in there. They are not sure. In order for them to see they want to do an ultra sound which wasn’t included in the estimate.

        I have no idea what to do. All I can do is hope for the best.


  13. Erhhmmm back to wwwh. Imo waters and not water does make a difference. It’s like saying start anywhere you want your lost anyway… Keep searching till h*** freezes over. I think it already did it is cold out side…..

  14. a day or so ago we discussed if the starting clues or the clues in general could be outside of the search area or all over the country….

    I thought about it some and I am leaning towards that all the clues lie within the rocky mountains north of Santa Fe….

    If you only had the poem to find the chest with, how would you know where to search for clues outside of that area? WWWH could mean anything in America…
    HoB could be a brown shack in Washington state, but how would the poem lead you there?

    I am guessing that all clues lie within 10 or so miles of each other. Start to finish. To far too means to far to walk for an 80 year old man, no an outdoors man who can trek 20 miles a day….

    but this leads to the greatest question of all…..if it is to far to walk and all you have is the poem, how would you know what direction to go in? is there a sign somewhere that says “Fenn treasure hunters: Go left to the treasure” ..? I dont think so….it says take the canyon down, not far but too far to walk, so does that mean dont take the canyon ALL the way down, but halfway? but where would you know WHEN to stop? put it below of the home of brown…ok so what could this refer to if not a structure? HoB has been the most pic apart piece of the poem so far (IMO) and nothing seems to come together that is not a structure….Molly Brown home…thought about that, but that is a structure….
    so WWWH is top of a mountain, and you have to take a canyon down, not far but to far to walk, stop just below HoB, and go off the path to find a river with heavy loads and water high….could water high mean the river starts on top of the mountain? but dont most if not all rivers start at the top of mountains? Idk…..but lets back up…. so you start it at WWWH on top of a mountain or up near the top and take it down not far but to far to walk….so if you JUST need the poem to figure it out and you HAD to start it at the beginning, how would you know when to stop your car and look for HoB? has anyone come across something on their searches that could mean HoB? remember all you need is the poem so has anything come up on a search where you went “ohhhh that means HoB”…. Ive seen a few people say that but none seem plausible IMO….so how would you know whats to far to walk? Is home of Brown on the side of a road? side of a trail? how else would you know what is the home of brown if its in the woods and the location to that point is not far but to far to walk? but whats not a structure thats near a road/trail that would relate to Fenn’s hunt?

    Soooo… IMO HoB must be a signal/sing for some sort of distance… else would you know how far to go if its to far to walk? so the clues cant be all point to eachother when your outdoors and all you have is the poem in the woods….you would need to know how far is to far to walk to go down the canyon from WWWH to a place with water high and heavy loads…. could water high and heavy loads mean a river with boulders in them? i remember from some books and journals I have read of the revolutionary war (a favorite subject of mine) that heavy loads usually means stuff you are pulling in the water…… but lets just say water high and heavy loads is a river on the side of the mountain that is not near any trails, has woods near by and is cold or you get cold from being there…..cold could mean its an intimidating place to be and you get scared and cold…….

    but why would you have to be brave to retrieve a chest full of gold, that children can get w/o injury? Do you have to be brave to deal with the BS that you would have to deal with with becoming an instant millionaire? I dont know….

    Whats a blaze then? if you know what distance to go from WWWH down the canyon…what exactly are you looking for in a blaze? who is wise enough to figure that one out? is anyone working on the blaze part or is it something people think you will notice if you are near the area? it must be natural IMO… but if you just have the poem to figure this out how could you be wise enough to know what you are looking for? this is one of the clues that you could get major hints from in the book IMO… else would you know if you just had the poem…

    that is the most frustrating part of this chase….”all you need is the poem, and the book will help with hints” ALL YOU NEED IS THE POEM?! how can a simple 24 line poem lead an average person to little bitty chest in the mountains across 3/4 states?!

    aaaaaaaaand im spent…..

    • Dang Philly, Just out of curiosity, How long have you been working on the poem?

      I don’t know if I can help, but I could with some suggestions…Not good suggestion…I’m just good at giving them.

      Long ago and far away, we the searchers never “knew” the search area was the nice shaded area on the map in the TFTW. So yes, clues can be outside that area. The only true thing is the “chest” is inside that area, Don’t let the coined term “search area” lead you astray when looking at clues.

      Too far to walk, may not be distance, but a mode of transportation or even not able to walk the “not far” part… just simply having to take a longer route. Remember the author is just telling how to “find” the location of the chest only…Not needed to travel the exact route, just need to know where you’ll end up. Fenn know this area like the back of his hand, I’d lay good money to say the way he is taking us, may not be the way he went.

      And don’t under estimate someone in there 70’s to 80…I hunt with guys that age, that walk 10 miles, hunt, and back again, with no problems, carrying backpacks, many day hiking trails are that long, folks do it all the time. Fenn’s done this all his life.

      Another thing is, maybe not all the things you have mentioned are physical places at all. could it be that the poem is not that literal as we think…at least when it comes to what seems like a physical place. Example: a canyon is describe simply as a low level area with shear side. A city block with tall building on each side, fits that description.

      • Thanks for replying Seeker…. I put the important stuff in stars at the bottom…

        I have been working on this since last April, off and on… and a lot recently…
        I was trying to be philosophical to come up with a solution….

        you make good points but this still leads me to a question of if you jUST have the poem, how could you figure out WWWH? are there hints within the poem?

        The book has been picked apart for over 4 years now and there has not been many mentions on hints….

        There are hints in the book but maybe you have to know the exact location of the chest before you can find the hints….maybe the confident one can see the hints only after figuring out the poem….

        Fenn said all you need is the poem and also said the person who figures the poem out will move in confidence towards the chest…
        So how can a 24 line, 9 clue poem not have exact physical markers for you to see? but I am going to answer that question…how can one move in confidence to the location of the chest with just looking at a map and the poem? wouldnt those clues have to be bigger than just physical markers?

        The one who figures out the poem will move in confidence and pick up the chest….
        FF also said you just need the poem and possibly a good map to help you out….

        **So I guess the conclusion I have come up with is that all you need is the poem and THE MAP!! HA! I got it…there is a detailed map out there of some area that all 9 clues fit on…… maybe the first or one of the clues refers to a map of an area…????***

        • There has been a lot of discussions on ‘all you need is the poem’ I’m leaning towards just that.

          Here’s other thoughts, besides my example of a canyon, what if the clues are not of this time period? Why does Warm waters or any other clue need to be a place a searcher must physically travel?

          Example: WWWH the glacial period…It’s not physical – anymore. In the geological time line it’s not far, still too far in time.

          I’m not saying a map is not needed or the book for reference. but the above example uses neither.

          Just for fun…Start at wwwh Mars, no water anymore. Mars has the largest canyon known in the solar system. No far, but can’t walk there. Below hoB, Mars is all dirt. No Meek , No peeps. end of the canyon is near \_/. No paddle, dried up creek bottom, Just heavy loads and water high…Planet Earth. when Earth is viewable from the canyon, look down.

          We can make any physical place work, to fit the poem, when looking at all the clues as physical places.

          just food for thought.

          • Seeker,
            Have you secretly bought one of those one-way tickets to Mars on a rocket ship?! IF you did you have more Spirit than me and Truth be told you would certainly be a hero! Well mine anyway. lol
            The Wolf

          • Naaa, I’m just hangin around for my peeps too get back…we stop here on this planet to get a flat Tire on our spaceship fixed and recharger the weak batteries.

            But they left while I was in there, alone, warm watering the canyon down… That’s not even the bad part…they left me with out my super powers.

        • That makes sense Clues’, like a campground map has many details no other map has because it’s their map.

          • Seeker- Time could play a part in the chase. Forrest mentions bells, and Albert Einstein a lot and that could be a reference towards time….

            Peter- Yeah could there be a map thats more detailed than all the clues make sense on? I think there could be…
            Maybe a nature preserve or an old map by trap hunters…But what map could it be? there must be a clue or hint in the poem that refers to such a map….

            I looked at Browns park in Maybell Colorado…there is a ‘warm springs cliff’ below that park in Dinosaur national monument….

            Has anyone looked at Browns park national wildlife refuge area???

  15. Below the home of Brown maybe it’s a metaphor, or an animal , not sure Brown could be lots of things ,
    In which I have 2 right now.
    It’s no place for the Meek I finally got that for it to make sense to me.
    And Cold is Cold I’m not thinking temperature either.
    The Blaze not sure it might be my IT I will have to see when my Boots are on the ground.

    I have translated the poem into a story in a way. Something that I know about.

    Don’t you just love this. Chase and Challenge I do 🙂 !!!!!

    • Hi Amy, this may have been discussed before although I don’t recall reading it. My thoughts are that possibly the home of Brown may not be in the search area at all. It could be somewhere else in the northern hemisphere and a searcher is to put in below it, meaning below it’s place/number in longitude. So HOB now becomes a number and following the canyon down to below this number in longitude is the spot. To me, Molly Brown seems to easy and, maybe expected. Forrest being an aviator regularly sees the big picture, and he has said look at the big picture. Of course this idea just complicates things even more but…

      • Peter

        People think Molly Brown,
        He doesn’t and has not mentioned anything about the Titantic .
        So why do others think this just because of the last name 🙂

      • Peter,

        Your theory is not without it’s valid points. I took a pilot’s view in doing my second search. From a pilot’s point of view, you can see distances from a more relative perspective. At a decent altitude you could see into Utah from the Rocky Mountains, or Brown’s Park. I looked at the Molly Brown approach earlier on, but it turned out the solution was more a bunch of coincidences.

        Forrest has his map in his head. With so many years of flying, he could navigate anywhere from memory.

  16. I’ve fallen so far behind it’s hard to catch up… I think? My favorite wwwh is paint… a warm color. I’ll try to catch up tonight and hopefully have something to contribute tomorrow! Still miss n’ this stuff! 🙁

  17. Has Browns park national wildlife refuge been mentioned on this blog before? I know that seems to odvious but F did say that people would be surprised at the location of the chest…..

    • Yes, it has been mentioned many times. It fits the clues in every way. It is not just one area. there are pieces sacattered about over north western Colorado, and Utah and Wyoming. One area that is often mentioned is called Browns hole. There are plenty of canyons to go down. What is below the Home of Brown? Dinosaur National Monument? But where do warm waters halt?

      • I went through a “phase” where I was looking in Brown’s Park… But it never panned out for me…:)

        • Yeah Browns was one of the first areas I focused on, and although I’m looking harder at Lander and Glacier right now I still really like Browns as a potential location.

          The main route I was looking at had Cold Spring Mountain as WWWH and Irish Canyon as the “canyon down”, with a couple different options for HOB. I never got through the whole thing (and I can’t recall all of my original thoughts on it), but I do recall that my line(s) were not heading into Dinosaur NM.

          The thing that bugs me about Browns (as with many places) is I don’t see how “just the poem” could lead you to and through that area. It’s very possible that it does just that, but at this point I don’t see it.

      • I was just looking overr the Colorado atlas when I noticed something funny near Browns Park NWR. It is a place called “Starting Place”! It is beneath Sterling spring, and just a short drive accross the street to the park at “Harry Hoy Bottom”.
        I would like to see Vermillion Falls

        The area was named after a trapper Baptiste Brown.

        • I think your own to something Micheal….
          I am trying to look for maps made by the men who were fur trappers back in the day….
          Want to help me out???

          • I think there was also some type of Indian battle that occured there that I tied to “go in peace” It was also where all the bandits hid out because it was close to the 4 corners of each state so they could jump over the state line to avoid being arrested. I have to go back and look it up again online I never took notes… probably should have.

          • The first recorded visit to Browns Park was in 1825 by William Ashley and a group of fur trappers who floated down the Green River through Brown’s Hole in bull boats made from hides. After that, many fur trappers and mountain men visited Brown’s Hole; the list included Kit Carson, Joe Meeks, Jack Robinson, the Ceran St. Vrain party from Taos, New Mexico, who spent the winter of 1827-28 in Brown’s Hole, and the Alexander Sinclair party who wintered there in 1831-32. Later, in 1837, William Craig, Philip Thompson, and a man named Sinclair established a trading post, known as Fort Davey Crockett, in Brown’s Hole.

            Explorer John Wesley Powell passed through the area during his first expedition in 1869 and began to refer it as “Brown’s Park,”

          • I thought the part about Joe Meeks was interesting and one of the reasons I looked in the area. No place for the meek…

          • I was looking at the Jarvie Ranch because it had a waterwheel = “Heavy Loads and Water High” But, the jarvie Ranch is in Utah not Colorado. I think that is where I gave up on Browns Park.

    • You have to ‘solve’ the clues, determine what they mean, or represent, whether its an image/ landmark etc….

      In TTOTC the line says you have to ‘unlock’ the clues.

      Fenn was quoted as saying you have to ‘figure out what the clues mean’

      Fenn likes to toy with words, so I doubt you can take any specific word from the poem literally or at face value.

      Difficult but not impossible, to me suggests you have to keep searching until all the pieces fall into place naturally, and hope in the meantime Fenn will let something meaningful drop

  18. Not entirely caught up but I’m still here! Dal enjoyed your take on wwwh. When I read the end and that the rest of the clues could be in Russia I was taken back to Alexandria Fechin’s “March of the Past” an awesome read. Okay My hob is also in NM. I’d love to hear others hob and why? Post again soon!

  19. WWWH All of us are just jumping to conclusions on this point when Forrest is really the only one who knows how to do that because he wrote the poem.. 🙂
    Maybe a better rendering would be “begin it when warm waters halt” we will have to wait and see when this whole chase unravels in the future how our ideas played out..

      • Actually Michael his brother Stephen Meek promised a group of people traveling west that he could get them to Oregon’s Willamette valley quicker, its referred to as meeks cutoff. Treachery claimed the lives of alot of people and so Meek was himself threatened with death by one of the travelers. Trapped against a river and threatened with death he had an indian swim he and his wife across to safety. No place for the Meek 🙂

        • There’s a decent movie about this. It’s called “Meeks Cutoff” kinda slow but explains it all and okay movie.


          Meek continued on ahead of the company, and when he reached Sherars Falls on the Deschutes River he was warned that a father who lost two sons along the trail intended to kill him, so with the help of Native Americans a rope was sent across the swift river, and both Meek and his wife were guided through the water with ropes tied around them.

      • This is a great idea but Forrest would have capitalized Meek if he were referring to a mans last name. I don’t believe he is but it’s fun to think about and I do believe a river is no place for the meek so you could say Stephen Meek couldn’t handle the swift river so it wasn’t a place For Meek.

          • Yes that is true, but I don’t think Forrest would use a mans name to point out a location that in my opinion is way to specific. I was just pointing out a more general understanding of what meek could mean not that it would lead anyone to a location.

    • holly smokes, are you sure ur even old enough to drive?
      Please, no more hotties posting their photos, we need to keep the Gold Train on the tracks… Dal hasn’t the time to moderate a new dating site

  20. Michael I had Vermillion Falls pegged as my Blaze at one point. A vivid red to reddish orange the color of a blaze. Could not get much past that with the clues though!

  21. Recently, Forrest commented that the chest was probably “effected by water by now”.

    It seems to me that if anyone (besides myself) picked up on that, it could very well localize the chest to a certain area. Think about it… Supposing it started raining in a part of the country and you knew that. In an innocent remark, you mention that fact. If one were to check to weather reports for New Mexico and areas going north, wouldn’t that give a clue? By the way, I did check to weather… 🙂

  22. So I was shopping for an ornament today , it took awhile to finally find it I went to many stores, I went into a high dollar business where I live I know it’s a store for the wealthy, which is fine. As I was talking to the lady that works there I told her all the places I had been looking for this particular ornament, I said well maybe Walmart might have it, she said I would try target before Walmart, she then added that she was to good to go into Walmart and she couldn’t let herself go in that store. Well Walmart has everything u need Right.
    I never checked walmart but I finally found the ornament somewhere else.
    The point of this comment is that you and I are no be better than a person holding a sign on the curb
    That is a choice. We are all the same in Gods loving eyes.
    Some people think they are better
    And that’s just not the case. Remember we are all the same
    It’s just Choices that we make 🙂
    The older u get the wiser u become

    🙂 Love !!!!!!!

    • I agree. All were created equal.

      On a side note – I don’t shop at Wal-Mart, but its because I don’t agree with the way they hire people, over work and underpay them, and they hardly sell any American-made products.

      Also, I am having a hard time finding ornaments this year, too. In my family, every year we each buy one new ornament. It can be anything, as long as it is a reflection of the person who chose it. This year, we are having a hard time finding unique, cute, and interesting ornaments.

      I also have a bit of a mouth, and I am not afraid to use it. I would have told that lady, “Wal-Mart is too good for you. It’s lucky for them you don’t go.”

      • In the know

        Lol that’s was funny.
        Sometimes I speak
        And sometimes I just don’t 🙂

        I just think

    • You are right on, Amy!
      I shop wherever I can get in and out the fastest–Wal Mart, Target, and because I’m a little agoraphobic–

      I think that Paul sums up how we should live very wisely–“I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well-fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want.”

      And Just to tie this in with the chase, Abraham Lincoln said, “Whatever you are, be a good one.” He didn’t say be the best, he said to be good.

      I’m a firm believer that anyone, given the right circumstances at the right time, can achieve anything. And sometimes circumstances don’t allow you the chance to achieve what you’d hoped, but the keys are to be content, and be good. 🙂

      Treat every heart like it is sacred ground, and you’ll find a reason to smile every day. 🙂

          • Spallies, I’ve done the marriage thing, and in my case, something horrible happened to cause my life to turn upside down for a while.
            I’ve come out of that situation a little wiser, and am in the process of learning not to be bitter. That’s hard to do when your child is involved.
            I’ll just say I will remain cautiously leery until God shows me the right one. 🙂

          • That’s right Mindy I forgot sorry…. Maybe a fellow treasure hunter might fit the bill. But stay away from all those Tarzans…..

          • And don’t get me wrong, I’m fully human, fully fallible. I love some things I shouldn’t, like when Dwight Shrute (The Office) says, “Whenever I’m about to do something, I think to myself, ‘Would an idiot do it?’ If they would, then I do not do that thing.” 🙂
            The Office, in all it’s inappropriate hilarity, cracks me up. Big Bang, too.

      • Mindy, thanks for such excellent advice from Abe Lincoln and the Apostle Paul..
        Be good.
        Be content.
        Treat every heart as sacred ground.

        And be thankful for grace and forgiveness – in my case – since I fail at 1 & 2 frequently 😉

        • Lia,
          It’s human nature for us to be failures.
          It reminds us that we can’t even take credit for our next breath.
          The world and all that’s within it, are His. 🙂

  23. Back to the treasure…I read somewhere over the weekend about a blaze possibly being a white rock on the side of a river (I’m guessing the right bank). Lift the rock, and the treasure is in the hollowed out earth below. Just a theory.

    • Maybe the general location? Maybe area below the rock is lined with sticks. I don’t know. Lol. Just something I found that could be something or nothing.

    • I have no clue where it is, except possibly SW Wyoming. Everyplace I look seems like a good spot. Lol

  24. So, IF the chest is found, would Forrest want the location to be published or kept secret? I think most would respect his poem and what is now his “special” place, but for the end of the Chase, would he want to share the Chase solve with the world? If someone finds it and makes it public, everyone will want to know the solve, wouldn’t they?

    • geo-
      Sure but maybe the best thing to do is take it to Santa Fe and talk with Forrest about what happens next…
      He probably has some good ideas..

  25. What does a person have to do in order to retain all this knowledge? Do we have to start eating kale or something?
    I’m learning about stuff I never would have imagined, but how much will I remember when I’m 80? How does Fenn do it?

    Been watching every documentary on netflix, Ken Burns has a nine part episode about the west. The Indians of the West, had no horses until the Spainards came pillaging. (1680+/=)

    The PBS doc on Butch and Sundance blew my mind, Sundance’s woman was named something like Etta Place. Butch grew up a Morman, robbed his 1st bank in Telluride, brilliantly planned most of the holdups.
    Maybe Butch used the Pony Express business model, stationing fresh horses at intervals along his escape route.
    After the train job in Wilcox WY, banks,ranchers, RR Magnates, hired Pinkerton detective agency to bring in the Wild Bunch. In a way the gang was like Robin Hood, many of their supporters along the outlaw trail, received some badly needed cash.
    How many hundreds, if not a 1000 men did it take to create what was essentially a real time database on their illicit activities. Modern technology like the telegraph helped Pinkerton close that chapter of the Wild west.

  26. Just for fun:
    For all you guys who dismiss us girls as non-players in the chase,
    And for all us girls who know better.

    Isabel met an enormous bear,
    Isabel, Isabel, didn’t care;
    The bear was hungry, the bear was ravenous,
    The bear’s big mouth was cruel and cavernous.
    The bear said, Isabel, glad to meet you,
    How do, Isabel, now I’ll eat you!
    Isabel, Isabel, didn’t worry.
    Isabel didn’t scream or scurry.
    She washed her hands and she straightened her hair up,
    Then Isabel quietly ate the bear up.

    Have a great day!

    • OH YEA,
      According to the Native American tribes of the Kiowa and Lakota, some girls went out to play and were spotted by several giant bears, who began to chase them.
      In an effort to escape the bears, the girls climbed atop a rock, fell to their knees, and prayed to the Great Spirit to save them.
      Hearing their prayers, the Great Spirit made the rock rise from the ground towards the heavens so that the bears could not reach the girls.
      The bears, in an effort to climb the rock, left deep claw marks in the sides, which had become too steep to climb. When the girls reached the sky, they were turned into the star constellation the Pleiades.

  27. “Look quickly down, your quest to cease,
    But tarry scant with marvel gaze, just take the chest and go in peace”

    Anyone see directionality in that? The parts that bother me the most are “quest”, and of course “tarry scant” and “marvel gaze”…and the use of the word “but”. he could have said “then”…..hands down this is the hardest part of the puzzle.
    and the scrapbook posts have such vague hints! I AM looking at it FF! I’m at the blaze…….but now what? its not just sitting there in front of me because its not just sitting there at the blaze.

  28. that’s what i was thinking too….if its really SW of the blaze then I will absolutely go get it…in spring. for ALL of us…. 🙂

  29. but when i used that line meaning southwest, i still need the EXACT spot. tarry scant marvel gaze…..which in my solve could make sense in the obvious way, but it HAS to mean something more to get me to the exact spot.

    • I don’t follow if you are at the correct blaze you look quickly SW if you do not your view will be obscured by the hill in front and as you descend from looking quickly area you will lose perspective. The chest is in cave well not exactly I’m not sure what you would call it rock hole.

      • Ed,
        I’m with you on the rock pit…or some kind of pit with some kind of lid. I haven’t figured out the word “quickly” yet.

        Actually, I haven’t really figured out anything yet.

        I think it was The Wolf who said earlier today that basically Forrest directs us to one thing, which directs us to another. And that’s what I’m trying to do–take lots and lots of notes, find common denominators, and then add everything up.

        But, I am soooo bad at math…

  30. OK, one more idea before I stop….
    I was looking at HoB over the weekend and I was thinking about why the B would be capitalized. I thought it could mean replace the B with an A because capital, to me, means point up, upwards, bigger…so I replaced the B with an A and got AROWN….arown in the Bible means ‘money chest’ or ‘chest’ and it also a name for the Arc of the Covenant….

    Anyone have any idea how, or ‘money chest’ could mean in relation to home of…

    • Hey Philly, nice to see you again!!! Yes, you better not mess with his poem he might get made at you!!! But who knows with Forrest maybe we are supposed too… So along your line of thought all I get is “Home of the Arc of the Covenant”? Wasn’t that in another country??? I guess I need to go back and watch Indiana Jones…:)

  31. I know everyone has a theory on which sentences (or phrases, or words) are the nine clues.
    But I’m stuck on “where.” The first instance of where. Why is it written like that? Why all the references to adding, subtracting, alphabets forwards and backwards? If it isn’t a clue, it’s got to be something…an aberration maybe? Something to look for?
    If that’s the case, that would be the second aberration, I think.

    “As I” would have to be the first. The word “as” is normally used as an adverb, a conjunction, or a preposition. So, for this sentence to grammatically work, you would need something else in the sentence. Unless one of the uses of “I” and “my” are relating to someone (or something) else.

    Then some other aberrations are the run on sentences, and the contractions in some places, and in other places spelled out.

    Anyway, my thoughts are all confused now. Lol. But I’m pretty sure those punctuation marks are telling you to do something in regards to direction.

    And, in my opinion, home of Brown, is an iron mine.

    • A possible translation for your “As” issue.

      “As I have gone alone in there, and ‘also’ with my treasures bold.”

      I have always believed that he meant that he has been there before and then later with the chest. In this case, the references don’t point to anyone but Forrest.

    • in regards to “where,” i know this is out there, but so am i… i’m all over the place with this thrill.

      i’ve mentioned this before, but “begin it where” makes sense to me to start at the first “where” of the poem. “where” backwards phonetically sounds like “arrow” (with imagination). if you keep going backwards, the next word is “secret.” secret backwards is terces- a complicated word… maybe this is “what they whisper,” — a secret. or a “secret where”.

      If you don’t take “terces” for it’s canonical meaning, take it for it’s root. Tierces: an old measure of capacity equivalent to one third of a pipe, or 42 wine gallons. | a cask or vessel holding this quantity. It also means (cards) ( tɜːs). a sequence of three cards in the same suit. among other things. roots of threes.

      any way you look at it, it’s a mathematical, fascinating word. I looked at it this way… “arrow 42” which led me to discovering what a Beacon Arrow was. (I’ve learned so much through this whole process). and that would help answer why all the postmarks. Here is “probably” Beacon Arrow 42.

      (41° 09′ 53″ N, 104° 40′ 28″ W)

      here is where i got that info

      in this particular theory, it’s not “begin it where warm waters halt,”
      instead it was “begin it where.”

      any thoughts on this idea, i’d love to hear them.

      • Leigh,
        That’s interesting, and you are probably right. I had the idea about starting at the “where,” but I hadn’t thought about combing it with “secret.”
        I’m going to look into that!

  32. Total left field thought but if the chest WAS named Tarzan…and “back then” had the name Indulgence…is it possible that NOW it’s name is Brown? Just thinking out loud here…

    • I thought it was Tarzan back then and Indulgence now? I’m not sure, though.
      Indulgence fits with my take on Forrest’s story…

      • He just says something to the effect of going through old hard drives and back then it had a name “indulgence” and before that it was Tarzan….both past references….could be “brown” now–it would fit with the poem too…who knows…

  33. Night owls … It’s only 2 am .. Lets get this arm chair searchers and the Cheetos and lets get moving….

  34. You guys all are up at 2:00 am, I’m up at 6:00 am…the time difference between me and of thee sucketh.

    I just wanted to also say how happy I am to see all the pictures of gravatars popping up. Y’all are beautiful, your dogs are beautiful, your lives and stories are amazing. I wish I had more time to comment on all the interesting things you all say.

    This, I think, is a benefit I don’t think even Forrest could predict. That a Band of Brothers and Sisters (complete with family bickering) would be formed.

    Today, I feel the beginnings of a cold. Stupid change of weather outside and a coworker/good friend having emergency gallbladder surgery and a change up of gym workouts have my my throat sore and my eyes hurting and feeling like rocks. I would pay someone to be my clone today, or at least massage my forehead and temples while I help the doc today. 🙂

  35. Goofy,

    Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.

    • I agree GG, the population is being turned into lemmings. Of course, Jeremiah Johnson probably said the same thing.

      The paradox of the chase……….Fenn created it to get folks off their electronic devices and couches and into the wilderness; and here we sit glued to the screen on our gadgets waiting on the next communication from Fenn that he sends from his gadget.

      • Absolutely spot on Goofy! I have spent more time on-line looking up info, reading blogs, and scrutinizing GE since I started this chase than I ever did before!

        • It’s like that old awful line: “Hey, Baby. Are your legs tired? ‘Cause you’ve been running through my mind all day.”

          There’s quite a distance between reality and imagination. A very LONG distance.

  36. Okay, I’m throwing something else out there. I know my ideas are all over the place, but maybe one day I’ll throw out something that leads to another something that leads someone to the chest. Who knows?

    The more I think about it, the more I think that the actual “key word” in the poem may be “TITLE.”

    I can’t exactly say why I think that, because I have my own suspicions about certain posts on the blog, and I just can’t give away what my intuition is telling me, because it very well may be wrong.

    But I am thinking TITLE may be an important word.

    • Mindy
      During my research
      I might have found something that goes with that title.
      Could be the bullet
      ( the car he speaks of) 🙂

  37. So my husband left to go back to work, so I’m trying to start a fire, but it’s creating so much smoke I hope I don’t die 🙂 I have the doors open lol 🙂
    This is definitely a job for a man 🙂

    • Hi Amy, I beg to differ!!! I make my own fires all the time I even make kindling and smaller pieces for during the day…. Now splitting wood is work for a man… But my dear Hubby is both strong and smart so he built us a big industrial size wood-splitter. We split and stacked about 8 cords of wood this summer. We literally had a Logging truck full of logs dumped into our driveway. I’m pretty sure our neighbors think we are a little Goofy… No offense Goof…:)

    • Hi Amy, Here’s some mountain man wisdom. You need to get some cold air flowing into the garage to get the hot air to go up the flue. Open the door while the fire is starting. If you have the garage closed up the cold air is pushing down the flue causing the smoke to back up into the room.

  38. Lol hey everybody
    It’s a wood burning stove in the garage, so i can keep the dogs warm at night 🙂
    I had a good fire going then it all started smoking. 🙂
    Thanks for some advice 🙂

    Wish I could meet all the bloggers
    Maybe one day 🙂

    From the wise one 🙂 lol

  39. Lol Wiseone

    I should take your name over 🙂
    Come June you and I need to have a race to see who can get to the chest first. Do u know of anyone that could pull that trigger , 🙂

  40. In regards to the comments above about “ambiguous clues” and people finding two but no more I was thinking about an angle where ppl could solve the clues and still not know where they are and I came up with the following…say the first clue led me to California (correctly)…then second to a home with a swimming pool (correctly)…I may be in the right “SPOT” but unless I understood their relation to a “blaze” of Poltergeist… I would have no idea I was supposed to turn on the television and enter the other world, even though I had 2 clues correct. Yes, cheesy example….but I think that’s kinda a big part of the poem, and possibly what he means about understanding where to start and the path being indirect vs. direct….for the one that already knew “Poltergeist” they’d go straight to the TV…but the one that didn’t would need to solve the clues to get the movie to understand the clues. Knowing the poolside home location would be of no value without knowing the movie. Does that make any sense? This could be true of a book or a painting or movie anything that would reveal a location as a whole while the poem represents its parts. It could easily lead to an “exact spot” (I.e. Living room television channel 3….”IF” you’d found the blaze) …and would make sense why just picking spots out of order or random starting points would never work…as well as why some solved 2 clues but not the rest. I dunno…just blabbing again…

    • Very good Jamie, I’ve been repeating to myself lately ‘what came first the chicken or the egg?’ Even though I can’t solve that for now

          • Yes, I typed to fast figured you might notice that…. You are correct once again great rational there I like that…:)

          • Thanks, Ed, for posting that. I have not watched it through, but I bookmarked it and hope to watch it soon. Biology was my favorite subject in high school. I only studied biology a little bit after that. My observation is that creatures have to be intelligent enough to evolve on their own. The vast majority of changes (adaptations) within a species are neutral or negative. Even in 4.5 billion years there is not enough time to explain evolution as we are told we are supposed to believe it. Of course, I’m supposed to believe I’m an idiot for not completely accepting what (atheistic agenda-driven) “scientists” tell me to accept without question.

            James Watson, Francis Crick and Maurice Wilkins were given the Nobel Prize in 1962 for their discovery of the DNA molecule. Basically, they were the first to recognize what has been there all along. Did you know that as far back as we can accurately detect DNA there has been no change to the DNA molecule itself? Did you know that the DNA molecule itself is so mind-bogglingly complex that it’s “evolution” is beyond all probability…especially in “only” 4.5 billion years? It is so complex that it was Crick, if I recall correctly, who had to attribute the presence of the DNA molecule on planet Earth to ALIENS! He, of course, was an atheist…so that’s how an atheist who doesn’t ignore the facts and mathematical probabilities is “forced” to explain the unexplainable.

            I confess that I know very little about evolution, in general. I’ll admit that it happens slowly, but a creature has to be intelligent enough to evolve. That ability is encoded in the DNA.

            The real question is…WHERE DID THE INTELLIGENCE COME FROM?

          • Wow! They love to talk don’t they??? Don’t get me wrong it is very interesting I am going to go finish watching it but why do they have to take so long to say what they are going to say????? It either is or it isn’t. He’s my Hommie though so I will watch and see what he has to say….:)

          • Only one problem, evolution has been over hauled … due to the Human sperm. Proven it has never changed or evolved from it’s original state. It is the greatest form of nanotechnology ever seen . Not one part could have evolved or it would have never functioned and would have died… Cool topic… I like the Triple Helix.
            I also herd the human sperm has 3 football fields full of books of data shoved into it…

    • I believe the best way to approach the clues is to assume everything is a clue and that should help you. Forrest mention it wouldn’t be wise to discount any word

    • In a Q&A was asked [Paraphrasing] if the poem holds the blaze or “only” can be found in the field. Fenn stated he thought about it for some 30mins, then declined to answer. Your hypothesis could be correct. but I’ll add maybe, we need to construct the blaze in the field, possibly using the 9 clues.

      Is it possible the poem speaks of a single place only…and the clues in the poem are the way to show one the trail, so to speak, to the chest.
      So would the blaze be found in the poem and not “just” as a reference to find something or Can the blaze only be found in the field? Not if the poem holds the information to make / create the Blaze in the field as you say collectively…The question is in-answerable , with out giving away a major clue. IMO.

      Of course now, some will say … how is it possible that the poem only refers to a single place?

      • Seeker,

        Not to question your logic, but as I recall, Fenn made a statement (paraphrased) that “whomever solves the poem, will ‘go’ with confidence. That to me (and you can interpret his words the way you see fit) says that you won’t need to go anywhere to find the ‘blaze’ it is there in front of you in the poem. The ‘blaze’ line supports this. It’s not like you are out looking and reading the poem as you go. You’re at home, trying to solve it.

        • GG, How ya been?

          What I meant was, for example; The poem holds 9 Numbers. If you been wise and found those numbers you found the Blaze. So in this case the poem holds the Blaze….Now when in the field the reader must use those numbers to create a Blaze or to tract them to the chest. So in this case the Blaze is found in the field.

          The q&a asked “only” in the field. this means the to answer the question one or the others is impossible, with out divulging a major clue.

          This don’t change the confident level or the all you need is the poem or follow precisely or solving the poem at home…But will need to finish it in the field { not the solve } but the finding ofthe chest.

          • Seeker,

            I’m doing great. I hope you and the family are doing well.

            I see what you are saying, and it makes sense, depending on what solution you are using.

          • And that is the whole point of the poem. What theory or method to solve it is the correct one?

            Not unlike following the poem as a set of direction, Using only metaphors, looking just for a single set of coordinates, using constellations, trying to find physical locations or not using physical location…

            Fenn could of easily placed this information in the book for a searcher to find, but he used a poem. A poem is meant to be interpreted by the reader and most readers see it differently. That is the main challenge that I see….Understanding how to read the poem. IMO

          • Don’t it seem he has given all 9….. 6 stanza + 2 pop quiz math questions + 8.25n Just a thought … Flexibility

      • …okay…here’s an example…say the nine clues were all actually references to nine different songs. “Midnight in buffalo” “Mr Browns Basement” “Santa Fe ain’t for the Meek” call them whatever you want….now “YES” one could solve the nine clues and follow that trail…but if the “key” word was “Beatles” and all those songs in order were on a specific collectors album with a picture of an “X” in the middle of an intersection on the cover…one may know to go that exact intersection in real life. This could be applied to currency as well- the clues could just seem like random places or people…but to a coin collector or with a key word of “nickle” one may find they follow a path of pictures on the backs. Thus the places are irrelevant without the “key”…and the “key” is irrelevant with out the places. Knowing “Beatles” one would still have to go through bazillions of lyrics/pictures etc…. And knowing “Santa Fe” “buffalo” and “mr. Browns basement” would be on no help if you didn’t know to tie them to lyrics so you didn’t have the actual song titles. Does that make sense? The clues have the key, but the key has the clues (?) all IMO of course…

        • Personally I thought I had a SOLID “key” such as (example) “the Beatles”…but even if I “KNEW” all the places/9 clues were correct AND I “KNEW” my key was correct…I still may never know I was looking for a picture on an album cover…or (if it was a limited edition) that the album even existed….I’d just be endlessly trying to figure out how they were connected. Watching old interviews…reading books…etc. it could go on for years…

      • Seeker,
        I’m thinking the poem may (or may not) lead to one specific place.
        In my thinking last night during an hour or so of half sleep, I understood the “combination” theory.
        Say each full sentence that ends in a period is a clue.
        Commas are what separate the “elements” of a clue.
        When you combine elements, you get something different altogether. That one particular result of combing the elements of that sentence is a clue word.
        When you have all the clue words, combine them, and POOF, like in alchemy, you’ve turned lead into gold.
        One thing I’m fairly certain about is that Mr. Fenn uses Wikipedia extensively. And he is very good at his own research as he creates his Scrapbooks, using hints that lead to other clues.

        • Mindy,
          I’m not sure about fenn using Wikipedia extensively in regards to the poem. Fenn has stated that he wrote the poem around the time of his cancer..1988, took 15 years to revise it, so guessing finalizing around 2003….wiki was not available till mid 2002 or so.

          As far as the “combination” theory or elements,
          synergy comes to mind.

          The Poem is “all” hints…combined them correctly, results in 9 answers. or take two elements [ hints ]
          Helium and oxygen or H2O…[answer], water.

          Now what do ya do with the 9 answers?

    • Don’t it seem he has given all 9….. 6 stanza + 2 pop quiz math questions + 8.25n Just a thought … Flexibility

  41. A word that is ‘Key’. Created from a combination of words, none of which is altered in any way. Together with a good map.

    The ‘Key’ word gives a location in which the treasure is located. Of course, you must solve the clues in the poem to get the exact spot in that location.

    Definition of ‘key’ – an aid to interpretation or identification : clue. Merriam Webster dictionary.

    • G-man might be getting close. My ‘Key’ word is a combination of words, neither of which is altered in any way.
      And, for me, a good map is one which shows it…..not all do!!

      LOL!! How ya doin’ G-man?? Staying warm, I hope!! 🙂 loco

      • Loco,

        Very little snow here in Spokane today. Just enough to cover the leaves on the ground. Fireplace is crackling nicely.

        Your spot on with using the right map, and there is only one ‘it’ in the Rocky Mountain region. Funny, I was thinking, ‘it’ could be a ‘blaze’ as well…lol

  42. Germanguy, What do you mean “created from a combination of words”? If it’s one word, how can it be a combination of words? I don’t understand what you are saying.

    • Wiseone,

      Forrest never said how you would come about the ‘key’ word, only that there was “a word that was ‘key'”. Think about it for a moment, how would you find a word in a combination of words?

        • Wolf,

          I guess a ‘combination’ is a good way of looking at it too. Fenn has no rules when it comes to this poem.

          • GG, it has been stated by a long time searcher from the blogs that ff stated to him/her that it’s not a combination, it takes a key. So I wouldn’t guess on it being a combination.

          • Your understanding of my comment is incorrect. I used quotes around the word combination for a reason…lol

          • “stated by a long time searcher from the blogs that ff stated to him/her that it’s not a combination”. Please provide a link to this comment. Thanks.

          • No, I did not misunderstand your use of the word combination as you clearly wrote in your earlier post (11:48 am): “A word that is ‘key’. Created from a combination of words, none of which Is altered in any way.”

          • Give me some time to find it in my notes and I would prefer to have the original searcher reply here or anyone else who remembers such a post.

          • Here you go GG,


            Pro Fenner
            Posts: 151
            Send Message
            Post The Key
            on: July 21, 2014, 4:34 pm #
            I once emailed Forrest and told him i had the combination to unlock the poem and he responded with “It takes a key not a combination”. That correspondence was over a year a go. So i am under the impression that without the key word I/we have nothing.

          • Thanks for providing the quote.

            In my comments on ‘key’ I gave one of the definitions which I felt was appropriate. In regards to ‘combination’, I was referring to a ‘combination’ of words which would provide a word which was a ‘key’. I hope you can now understand that comment. Forrest never told us that there was a specific word in the poem that was key, only that ‘a’ word was key. So as long as we don’t modify any of the poem, if a combination of words gives another word, then that would work.

          • I understand your key and combination comments now exactly as I did the first time I read them. What you missed was the hidden gem that i brought to the conversation that might help you gain clarity.

      • I believe I understand what you are saying.
        Well, I have what I believe to be a key… but it may not be the right one. Needs more work. And Thank You.

          • GG – glad to hear your partner is on the mend; understandably frail bodies andtorn hrts can interfere. Hopefully with a retreat she’ll be good to go by spring for another search season. Sounds like your team has a good chance German.

        • How many times have we thought we had everything figured out, when only to find there’s more to learn?

      • I would not introduce the ‘was’.
        I believe that “…tight focus with a word that is key” is key, coupled with other elements in particular scrapbooks.

        He’s presenting it right there in the phrase;
        it connects to the poem.

        tight focus
        word that is key


      • Germanguy, The way I’ve always interpreted the “key” word issue was that there is a “key” word in the poem. When you figure out what that word is, utilize it to locate or make a potential combination to guide you further along on your quest. Does that make sense?

        • Wiseone,

          Yes, it makes sense, but suppose the ‘key’ word is like a stone dropped in a puddle of water, where the ripples roll out from it. Each ripple a clue to support the ‘key’ as well as the clues (if they have already been uncovered).

          • Gg, Now let’s not muddy up the puddle… or should I say “puzzle” so to speak!… I’m content with what I’ve come up with at this point. I just fear that it’s much more complicated than what my simple (but wise) mind can handle after four years of this! Some days I feel like throwing in the towel. (or trowel)…

          • Wiseone,

            It’s perfectly fine. I’m not commenting to change peoples minds, just adding to the conversation. Good luck.

  43. Consider a symbol as a representation of a collection of words in a concept or idea.

    Per Wikipedia for example—–“A symbol is an object that represents, stands for, or suggests an idea, visual image, belief, action, or material entity. Symbols take the form of words, sounds, gestures, or visual images and are used to convey ideas and beliefs.”

    Also, then, what about the “key’ for a map >> a guide to a map’s symbology.


        • Thanks for your concern Sally. Yes she finally was released a week ago. I’m waiting to hear from her.

          • As for Skype I hate it I tried to get it on my Android per my daughters request and it lets me sign in via my facebook account but won’t let me change anything because it won’t accept my facebook password. You would think it would be more civilized!!!!

          • spallies,

            That’s strange! Have you tried setting up SKYPE with it’s own login, instead of using FB?

          • Yes, I downloaded it and it never asked for my e-mail or password just sent me to Login which didn’t work so I circumnavigated IT and logged in via Facebook which worked but then I can’t add my phone number. Because it wants my original password which I never made??? Maybe I need to try it again but I already di it a few times. Oh but IT did take my money… Isn’t that funny. I have $10.00 in my Skype account I can’t use 🙁

  44. I think I understand where you’re coming from, GG. Do you think that when Forrest said only a few are in tight focus of a word that is key, those few people knew that their word was the key word and understood why it was key?

    • Mindy,

      I think what he meant by “tight focus”, was that whomever these people were, probably had it partially right, but didn’t go further. I don’t think these people really knew, but Forrest did, based on what they said, either here or to him in an email.

      The only reason for me to revisit this topic, was for verification. Any and all comments that Forrest makes in the way of a clue or even a hint has to fit with any solution that comes from his poem.

      What we all need to keep in mind when coming up with a solution, is that if the solutions’ clues fit completely in a logical fashion (as in moving towards the treasure) and is verifiable (based on what I said in the second paragraph) by whatever means is necessary, it can then be said to be valid. I could elaborate further, but I think you get the idea.

  45. If a searcher is in tight focus he may find the chest sooner (like in the next 50 years) …. oh by then he is too old to haul it out of the mountains. Just have to get a walking cane if its too far to walk.

  46. Key Talk,
    Much speculation about the few. FF said :

    “The treasure may be discovered sooner than I anticipated.”

    I realize this statement caused pandemonium in the streets of searchville, however, he didn’t say it was immanent, he said “may” and “sooner than anticipated”. To me this sounded like someone was finally working on a linking technique and was using the correct word; not that that the key was actually solved. There is a big difference between the two. The book dust jacket hints to a key and now he is verifying it.

    Sooner than anticipated could mean 500, 50, or 5 or less years. After that statement, he did put a qualifier out there and said within the next few/several years, meaning that someday someone or the group will solve the key and figure out where to apply it.

    This is what the I believe the key means:
    If anyone says they think they know what the key is – they are absolutely wrong. IMO the key is so powerful that you will know it is correct. That is you have overwhelming proof and we are not talking about the typical string of coincidence that we are all too familiar with. We are talking about 1+1=2 or go to court and convict a killer and put them on death row kind of proof.

    That then means only two things:
    1) You have the key and are looking where to apply it
    2) You have the correct general location and then you solved the key and you just need to link the rest of the clues to provide the required confidence necessary to conduct the “walk and smile”

    Anything else would be classified as some other kind of formula/solution. All IMHO.

    • Wolf,

      I like your #2. “2) You have the correct general location and then you solved the key and you just need to link the rest of the clues to provide the required confidence necessary to conduct the “walk and smile” That kind of fits what I just said, except, having solved for the clues first, and then the ‘key’ comes into play.

    • Wolf,

      “If anyone says they think they know what the key is – they are absolutely wrong.” I think you are saying, that no one has the ‘key’. None of us can make that statement, purely because if someone did know, they wouldn’t reveal it. We all know that “someday” the ‘key’ will be found.

      I fully support the idea that “1+1=2 and only ‘2’. Or in the case of ‘9’, only ‘9’.

      • GG,
        I disagree, some could have it but doesn’t know where to apply it (as per number 1 above). I know this is hard to understand but look at the analogy of a key. You can find a key but not know which lock it belongs.

        • Wolf,

          Forget my comment, it seems I handled it wrong. No one understood what I was trying to say…duh

    • Or 3) The word that is key…. set the theme or premise of the poem into motion on understanding how to read the poem.

      Not unlike trying to figure out how many a “Few” is. Two or more but not many more? If you think about it as population numbers, A few, of 10000 people could mean 1% of the population or 1000 folks. Looking at a larger population of 50000 = 5000.

      Or think of it as a crime rate… in each case the crime rate is the same, 1%. Yet there is still 4000 more crimes from one scenario to the other. Did crime go up? or stay the same? I guess it all depends on how you want it to work for your agenda.

      Some folks see the “word that is key” in the same manner.

      I need a key word to break open the poem…

      I need a key to put me at the location…

      I need a key that explains what the poem means… I’m personally leaning at the 3rd option.


      • I wanted to say the Wolf and you are making good points in your key conversation. I would blend two points you guys made. It’s correct you have to find the correct lock or starting point where the word that is key fits. That doesn’t mean you have to use the key to find that starting point. There’s a different way in the poem to do that IMO.

        • Fun,

          I agree that the starting point may not be the conventional way of thinking. ‘Blending’ as you said is a good way of looking at, not just what one thinks the word that is key is… but the entire poem. 4 years running and still a lot of folks want the poem to be straightforwards. That is all fine if you “know where to start”.

          But even that statement may not be all accurate. The starting point[s] may have to be blended as well. Unless the Author states each sentence or certain lines are a ‘ single clue ‘ Then IMO The poem was written to have more than one way of reading it…and…each or most must blend together to understand the meaning of the poem.

          Is this the correct way of looking at it? Time will tell. But I just don’t believe that the poem as simple directions to start a place of physical
          warm waters and follow a canyon at a distance of__?__, and start looking for a mark on a tree.

          For me the poem is Multiple everything [hints] that blends to one set of 9 clues to follow. The clues themselves may not all be physical.

          • Wait a minute the more I think about it I think I am going to go with Option #1. I hope you guys don’t come up with more options I am getting confused.

    • Wolf,

      I believe there may be a third component to your assessment and that is where a good map comes into play. Ah, but then I believe the map and the key are related in some way. Could be just the legend in the map that is being referred to, but I believe more strongly than that in Mr. Fenn’s brilliance.

  47. It is in the poem..the “key” it is. It is where he went on his lonesome. It is where he keeps his secret and hints for me to find it. If only I knew where it started. I would be pleased when I see it.

  48. Forrest has been rocked more than once blah cmon do me a favor. GROW UP! Raft across a dirty river /a new partner and I know where, ha ha really any one know what the center looks like, we’ll that’s where your key goes.

  49. Leaning on the Key understanding. There is a photo with thekey next to the chest…. Than another when it is closed , and the key was gone.

        • So If you find the Chest and you don’t have the key how do you get the key to unlock it??? More questions again??? Hate to have to take a crowbar to it…:)

          • I carry crow-bars with me every time I go treasure hunting. That way I always have a well-deserved meal. 🙂

          • I don’t know if he actually locked it ..
            But, most treasure maps are not in one piece. It kinda sounds like this one is in Nine… I don’t know.. Just putting that out there.

          • Bro calm your tone… I was using that dang key as a understanding is all!!!!!! You know what …. You all enjoy your weird Blog I don’t deserve your bashing me or trash talking people who don’t agree with you …..I done with you. Enjoy your mental screw feat pal.

        • I know maybe Mars has the HOB on it , and when I get done with all my surgeries I had to over go just to be able to walk normal and the last 2 damn years of surgeries and rehab … Maybe all the studying I’ve had to do to go to places I couldn’t get to … and maybe after the next couple of operations so I can feel my left leg I’ll come get that dang treasure, even if It is on MArs!!!!!!!!!!
          Enjoy your week end

  50. I missed a subscribe.. TIGHT FOCUS…how I remember the quote. I don’t think it references an email or post here on Dals site. Going back I recall a photo someone put on a site and a few days later the tight focus comment emerged. News travels slower now a days.

  51. Someone posted it’s unlocked and the key is inside. Read a pirate story on here where Fenn said you don’t need a tool to get it. So I don’t think it will get damaged if you know where it is.

    • I recall a statement also that the chest is unlocked and with the key inside. Not sure on original Fenn source but Dal responded to similar question prior >>

      -Dal—“Forrest has stated that the chest is unlocked and the key is inside for the reasons you mention…”

      On the “key” subject. As I mentioned prior, I have enjoyed pondering the thought of “word that is key” where “key” is represented as a combo of words representing an idea or concept or in other words just as a “symbol”. A key to a map (with the poem representing a map that leads you to a destination) is a guide to what the symbols mean in a map legend (i.e. map key).

      Consider that if the “blaze” is one single object. <>

      What if — the Blaze = one single object “in a word” = a symbol = a key , but then what is this key symbol??


      • That’s darn good…. Four it to be a word key, I would think it’s coded. Not saying altered by moving the words but meaning only. To see 1+1=2 is easy but what is 1 and there are 2 of them? But, I do like single object blaze.
        But I don’t think it blazes a trail in the woods. More as X marks the spot.
        I like your look … I’m just guessing at this

  52. Would have to agree with you Mike. Fenn said no codes. I like map key being the key he speaks of.

    • If a few are in focus, that might accelerate things into a chase , don’t you think… Wonder how the children participating in the chase would feel about that? The kindergarten kids I teach on Sunday’s love a good game of chase.

        • The golden egg is under a sleeping giant I suppose and it will take all of Gulliver’s travelers to get him to move. That sounds like a total zoo, but I can imagine the fun would be worth the wait, as long as the wallabees do not rise up out of the woodwork and into a stampede to rescue him before then. Reminds me why I dislike crowded places.

          • I know the golden egg is in your Home of brown right next to the key that leads to your brain…….. You all enjoy picking at a person who has been under operations for the last 2 years and can hardly walk now , in which I couldn’t before and all I had to do is this, So … Thanks for showing me what Kind of people Mr.Fenn Attracks….. And what this Chase really is . Wow you all deserve all the gold!!!!!!

          • -IMO who else thinks page 9 of TTOTC is an important page after all isn’t that chapter titled very important -IMO

          • Ouch. I am very sorry to hear of your situation Mr. D. We are just trying to have some fun, but certainly at no else’s expense ever. It is all a very confusing a discombobulated chase we are all participating in. Misdirection can be found at every turn, but I do not believe there is ever any intent to demean or dishearten anyone.

            Blessings to you Mr. D.

          • Damage done. People who say never at anyone’s expense has already calculated “expenses” You should be the one to find it. As For me . The search ended15 minutes ago. Sorry I’ve posted and upset the site . My Apologies.

          • I am very sorry to hear that Mike. I guess I am unaware of all that you have experienced. I am only able to follow posts here sporadically so I miss many of them. I wish this could have been a more welcoming experience for you.

          • Mr.D, sorry to hear about your situation. If you don’t want your ideas scrutinized why are you putting them out there? If you can’t take a little ribbing you are probably in the wrong place. I read through the comments and I honestly don’t see why you are upset.

            I’ve been known to poke fun at what I call the “Fenn Mystic Club”; every syllable out of the man’s mouth becomes a crack the poem wide open clue. Some members of the mystic club believe Fenn is speaking directly to them in code.

            But they aren’t shy about systematically dismantling my rather mundane, literal, interpretations of the poem and his comments. Just because they’re out of touch with reality, IMO, doesn’t make them stupid; there are some very smart folks here, and I’ve learned a lot from them…..

            We can disagree and still have fun and get along.

    • One other statement was made to me by Speillis IDK how to spell it,
      “I wonder if Forrest has already been to mars and hid the chest there… It’s too far to walk and no place for the meek…:)
      I couldn’t walk for along time with out help , a Cain , or crutches.
      My 5 feet 4 inch Armenian wife, had to take care of all of us and we have lost everything… So this Dumb Chase is all I had , to remind me what I will be doing with my sons when I get better. I know I’m not the nicest person at times , but I never make fun of someone that I don’t understand. The chase is over. Thank you for teaching me this valuable lesson.
      Real Lady Like.

      • Hi Mike, I am really sorry you took it that way… I was only referring to the “clue” Not far, But too far too walk” in the poem. I was only trying to be funny not offend anyone. I can be shy but if someone posted “no place for the meek” I would not take it personally. I am very sorry you did. My apologies and I hope you recover soon. I do hope you have at least had some fun searching…:)

      • MikeD,

        I was out and just logged on to see some of the remarks and comments…

        I think I was the start of all this. So let me say now, that my comment of ” the Dang key is in the chest” had nothing to do with your comment. I was responding to another. The problem is that you commented just before me and my comment was under yours. If this is what your talking about, Let me say again…My comment was not pointing to yours.

        With that said, I think most folks need to remember, Not all of us are a well writ as FF, or dal or some others and comments don’t show the face of the speaker, so at time folks get the wrong idea. But Goofy said it well…

        “If you don’t want your ideas scrutinized why are you putting them out there? If you can’t take a little ribbing you are probably in the wrong place.”

        I put my ideas, theory, method etc out there just for that reason. Hoping someone dissect it. If they can, I must be thinking wrong.

        Goofy, What do you mean, Fenn’s not giving me coded information??? Tucker is going to lead me right to the chest !…I know, he knows, I know it.

          • CJinCA,

            Are you the Pretty young gal who is the proud owner of THE Tucker? If so, Is he for rent as a guide dog? I need all the help I can get.

          • Don’t I wish! No, my Tucker is a German Shepherd who can only track something if it smells like food. 😀

          • That works for me… Didn’t fenn say he took a sandwich? Now I need to go and look up what kind it was…I knew he was hinting in a secret code to just me about that sandwich…

        • Lol, Seeker. You never know. Maybe Tucker will lead you to the chest.

          And Mike D, I’m sorry for your situation, but if you are beginning the road to recovery, I’m sure you are sick of people feeling sorry for you.

          However, I have to say, that the way you responded to a vague hint of an insult (which really wasn’t one at all) wasn’t the best way to handle it. I know living with a long term injury or illness can make you tired and ready to give up.

          But Mike D, you CAN’T give up. You can’t give up for you, and you especially can’t give up for your sons. You need to keep going and be an overcomes rather than a victim.

          You should look adversity and perceived doubters in the eye and say, “I am stronger than this, and I’ll show you.”

          You come across as feeling sorry for yourself, and trust me, that is a pit you don’t want to sink into.

          When the going gets tough, the tough get going…and stay going.

          Don’t leave the chase over a perceived insult. One thing I know is that most everyone on this blog are good people who don’t want to intentionally hurt anyone. There is a lot of debate, yes, but that is the nature of problem solving in a large, relatively anonymous group.

          Pick your head up and carry on. I know it’s hard. I know that when it rains, it pours, and I know you must feel soaking wet. But I also know that the sun always returns.

          • Thanks for the kind words I re posted on 9 clues . I never gave up on recovery nor would I , next is 16 weeks of neck recovery. Then back to nerve testing …
            No I didn’t ask for a shoulder to cry on nor were any of you there when I couldn’t get out of bed… I did that with the man upstairs, myself and family, and mixed with some Fenn stories and video’s , I was really mad for being trashed on! So let me just clear that with you about who and what my Grit is. Thanks again for the kind words I do thank you for them .
            Now lets get back into this chase,
            I need to find that dang chest!!!!!!First!!!!!!

      • Regis is totally understandable waypoint ….I’m sorry, I thought you really thought it was in the pot and had stopped there . was trying to help you out, that’s all!

        • Thanks for reaching out but I do believe it is in the pot… it is just hidden. He never said he burried it he said he hid it. You have to LOOK a little bit… Search… it is there LOOK!!!

          • Yes .I understand what you are saying was just encouraging you to KEEP looking deeper. I can tell you have no interest in hearing it or continuing so by all means stop right there. Wink at old Charlie for me, walk the dog, say hi to the twins. I promise not to offer any advice or encouragement again.

          • Thanks Jamie, I really appreciate you trying to help me to see what I might be missing. But I have to stand by my solve, I truly believe it is there. Again if I have missed something feel free to use what you can to get further along with the quest. At this point I only wish for the chest to be found… I think…)

  53. So here is some clarification on the ” key ” issue – for those who are willing to hear.
    It is not exactly true, that the chest is unlocked. The key to the chest is inside the chest, according to Fenn and the lock on the chest is unlocked, which I believe is true. However, the chest is locked up by alternative means.
    Now the word that is a “key” is a whole different story. The key is not the blaze” single object in a sense of the word ” – that is something completely different.

    The word that is a key is ” love “. And I am not talking about your phony ” fenner’s ” love here. I am talking about an unconditional love, love by compassion, love not of that which is good, beneficial and easy, but a love that is all encompassing and sacrificial – love that overcomes evil.
    That is what this Chase is about. For Fenn and Co., it is about finding a sacrificial hero, David who would slay the Goliath, Beowulf to slay the beast, St. George – martyr who slayed the dragon or Seifried saving Oddette in Swan Lake or the hero unemployed Texas redneck from ” They Live” movie – you get the point. So which one of you is willing to do that? Maybe Wolf will step up to the plate, since he is already a half Beowulf?

    Then there still remains the main question – is it all a deceit, just to trap and destroy an innocent and pure, child like dove, endowed by God’s spirit?

    And just to clarify, when I say Fenn and Co., I mean that, since it is my understanding that Fenn is not in it alone, there are others who I believe know where the chest is located and are in on it with him. There are 12/13, all in a same predicament, looking for their savior. There is circumstantial evidence to that effect – which will be obvious when you see ” The Map “.

    I think Fenn is the “dragon fly – general” from Stadther’s Treasure Trove, while his friend D. Kirk is the caterpillar – to those familiar with that treasure hunt.

    Dal, I hope you do not censor this post. Thanks

    • White Rock ,
      You know if what you say is true , would it not be for us to try and fish him back? It is the responsibility to help cure as Christ did. To help the weak , and feed the hungry, to help the sick, the blind chained in darkness by both hands. Fenn a monster I doubt it,
      off a little …yep, completely normal human being all the way, from the tribe of the crazy hawks….There is real evil in this world have you seen the news , if you need to bash him , then you must smite me also. He is a brother and you have no right to judge him.

      • Mr. D he’s been posting this stuff for years…..arguing with him is like wiping a hula hoop…..Good luck.

        The last time he posted all this stuff he left me off his evil counsel of 12 list…….I get no respect.

        • LOL … that’s funny. He needs to chill a little . Life is short and better happy. But, you never leave anyone behind ever! I give you respect..No worries

    • Whiterock7,
      I have a couple questions for you…
      When you say… “when they see “The Map”, are you referring to Stadther’s Treasure Trove map or another map?
      And how are you so certain “deceit” is involved in trapping an innocent person?
      What valid evidence do you have regarding your opinions/accusations?

  54. Thanks Seeker,

    I think Mr. D may have also inferred that I stated it would take an army to be able to move him after that crazy egg hunt comment. I can see how this would be very hurtful, but I like you was not addressing Mr. D, but just adding more nonsense to the comment in an attempt at some childish humor by referencing children’s tales. My apologies to Mr. D. I hope he returns, as I appreciated his analysis and commentary.

    • Wow, that story makes me want to take an obscure photo of a circle and draw lines to it saying its a square. ;p

    • Poor Tom, all of his search area is above 10,500 feet. He’s making a complete fool of himself. I had a long email conversation with him, back when I banned him. By the way, I’m the one that banned him not Dal as the article says…….I get no respect.

      He sent me his pictures (basically the same one’s he has posted other places) and I went through them with a fine tooth comb with several photograph enhancing techniques and programs. I did this because Fenn said he had coffee with Tom and his brother and he seemed like a nice guy. So I thought I would give him a chance. If you want to see his pictures he posted them on Fenn’s facebook page……the link is at the bottom of the page.

      I asked him what he thought about all of his search area being above 10,500 feet and he never answered me.

      • So that’s the guy and his evidence. Well, he stated the chest was gone and they took the tree too. How did they know they needed to take the tree with the chest?

        • Yep, not only did someone get the chest, but they removed all evidence of it having been there in the first place.

          • I can only imagine that moment, you and your friend just found a chest full of gold and in your joy you dig up a tree. Now that’s exciting!

        • Nearindiana, that’s funny. 🙂
          Don’t you know we will all need a heavy cumbersome keepsake besides the 42 lb chest to lug back down the mountain?

    • That’s a sad story. I mean how could that be? There it was and now it’s not…Guesstimate to be 1 mil,??? I thought it was up to 5 mil. and going to 10…and now down to a Million. How sad is that.

      By the way, this was meant jokingly. Some folks don’t get my dry, sarcastic, warp sense of humor…

      IMO, Just saying. The Cold One.

      Thanks for the post, Lucky girl.

    • LOL I remember old Tom, He was not the right location and he couldn’t except that. Maybe after time he could understand that and come to grips with a new location.

    • German guy

      Really, that’s horrible

      If u ever wonder why some women can’t stand men that is why 🙂

      Cause really that’s what a lot of men think about 🙁 it’s really sad) it really is

      In fact that is tacky

      I really can’t believe u posted that picture

      Omg !!!!!!!

      • Amy,

        If I’d of waited a couple of seconds longer, I probably wouldn’t have posted it. It got out of my hand. If you read my previous post, I apologized to all the ladies here.

        • Germanguy

          Lol it’s not a problem, I think im speechless. Lol.

          I hope Forrest doesn’t see that. Maybe he feel asleep by his fire. 🙂

          • Lol

            I just gave u a hard time that’s all. U did not offend me 🙂
            But I was like OMG no he didn’t 🙂

            I always ask God where did he go wrong with men 🙂

          • @Amy, I am not disagreeing with you, I just thought I would point out that it did not look like the woman in the photo was upset by the photo.

        • It is my fault GG, I started that silly mess and I take responsibility. I guess I was upset at Tom for what he was doing and I know he means well. He needs to stop and ask himself, if the tree was special and the person who found the chest knew anything about the spirit of the chase, why take a tree?

        • Germanguy,
          What happened? I’ve followed this blog long enough to know that your on-line character can be trusted and is typically defined by intelligence, prudence and respect for others.

          “Iron sharpens iron. So one man sharpens another.” Prov. 27:17
          I feel like I’ve contributed enough to this blog to call you a friend and call you on the carpet for that demeaning tree post.
          German, don’t lay in the gutter where you have to reach up to hit bottom. Reset your mind and eyes on honorable, good, and decent information.
          “As in water face reflects face, So the heart of man reflects man.” Prov 27:19.
          Perhaps a few minutes a day in the wisdom of King Solomon’s Proverbs would help you as it does me. Better to be poor and walk with integrity and honor – I believe the best in You GG. – Be that guy!

          Thank heavens we are more than the sum of the mistakes we make, Since I make a ton of them. God forgives and so does man. But it’s up to us to strive for exemplary lives and shine light into an already dark world. [I’m not returning to the blog; simply reaching out to a friend I hold in high esteem].

          • Swan,

            It would be hard for me to follow an act (comment) like that.

            When I found the picture, I was humored by the mix of the girl and the tree, not by a suggestive position. Not thinking, I immediately posted it. However I had no way of pulling it, so I reached out to Goofy (via email) to pull it off the page. I was too late, Amy had seen it. As you suggest, no one is perfect. Again, I apologize if I’ve offended anyone. 🙁

          • German-
            I wasn’t offended. I thought it was funny. Women like to tell us they are equal in every way…but then some make wide u-turns to point out how unequal men and women really are. Personally, I like the parts that are different between us. If I didn’t have women to wonder about I might have figured out where the chest is by now 🙂

          • It was kinda funny… My only thought was if there were any kids on this site looking for the treasure. So it was probably better to take it down.

          • It’s a tree trunk for goodness sake people. Get your minds out of the gutter.
            What are we here?…a bunch of puritans that cannot laugh at our own humanness?

          • If there were any kids on this site I would gladly make sure that they saw that picture so they would be encouraged to study human psychology and discover how to eliminate the embarrassment people feel when they look at a tree shaped like a human…

  55. Ok, back to the key thing. Maybe I don’t understand. Forrest said people were in tight focus with a word that’s key. If the key word is only revealed by deciphering a combination of words, how likely is it that a few people will figure out that much of the poem and still not find the chest. If all 9 numbers of the combination are unlocked, and you now have the key, isn’t the poem solved at that point? Forrest didn’t seem to indicate that.
    So, I’m just a little confused.
    One curious thing: I played are using the Golden Mean to make the words in the poem into a series of numbers that got smaller and smaller. I also did a little map dot to dot that in the end, made an arrow point to the word TITLE. I then tried the golden mean there, and got an interesting, but not promising result.
    However, when I looked up thrill and chase in the dictionary, one definition for chase is to ornament or mark metal using a hammer or other flat tool.
    Another definition of chase is “quarry.”
    I want to research tonight but coworkers brought in some sickness, and my head is pounding and my nose is starting to snot. I’ll probably suck it up, take some Tylenol, and search anyway!

    • Mindy,

      Sometimes it is hard to know how to present something and not make it too confusing for the average person to understand. But I’ll try my best to say this… Yesterday, when I started this whole conversation over ‘key’, I was trying to get folks to think. I know there are many theories out there, as to which way to interpret Fenn’s comments. I currently see a word in my personal solution that pretty much unlocks the poem. Although, I didn’t need it when I originally worked out my solution. It was done, purely to verify the validity of my solution. I always throw hints Fenn makes against my solution, looking for it to collapse. So far, so good.

      Keep in mind that Fenn never says that a ‘key’ would lead to the chest, although many feel it does. What I feel (and take it for what it’s worth), is that if a special word (in the poem) is only available in one spot in the current search areas open to us, and in a way relative to Forrest, that would make an ideal ‘key’. We know very little about the ‘key’ except what he has told us, and that is that it is a ‘word’.

      All I’ll say is, it’s my opinion.

      • I agree with you, GG.
        I’m at the point where I’m overloaded with seemingly conflicting info. I need to get out my laptop, go through the poem again, and the book, and organize the clues.
        Right now I’m working on 4 different, yet related theories.

          • Fair enough. If your going to temper what Forrest said publicly about the book then that’s fine. I actually do the opposite I disregard some things he says publicly. The book does say there are clues. I believe the keyword is in the poem but I figured out which word it was through the book.

        • where else would the word that is key be?

          only need the poem.
          every word is deliberate.
          follow the clues[in the poem].
          the book is just a good reference.
          the book has subtle hints, but not intentional.

          GE / I believe started in 2009, can’t see a key there. I would say that goes for a good map as well. Seeing not all maps have keys / legends [ referring to older maps] No US history.

          Especially if the word that is key is to help ‘unlock the poem’, why would it be anywhere else?

          • Umm I disagree Seeker. The book has clues and this is not an opinion. And not because the poem is in there. Read the cover sleeve in TTOTC. Forrest never said the word that is key was in the poem.. could be located anywhere.

          • -IMO both statements this and the other one go hand in hand. We should be look at them together.

            It seems logical to me that a deep thinking treasure searcher could use logic to determine an important clue to the location of the treasure.

          • IMO, don’t discount the hints in the book as not really necessary… F’s words from the Taos bookstore event:

            …if you’re really serious about looking for the treasure…get ‘The Thrill of the Chase’ and read it
            and then go back and read the poem over and over and over again. And then go back and read the book again…

            So if your not “really serious” about finding the chest, pay little or no attention to the book and only focus on the poem.

            IMO one must learn to understand the clues in the poem by the figuring out the hints in the book; somewhere in the process one will also learn what “a word that is key” is which will unlock the poems first clue. Then one by one each additional clue can then be unlocked and solved, but expect that it will still be difficult to do.

            This is my opinion based upon everything f has said, and not just a handful of statements taken out of context.

          • i dunno, ive been reading the poem and the book back and forth for 2 years, still nothing….

          • Have you tried using “pie” as a blaze/key/whatever you want to call it and translating the poem into PIE (basic/root/”beginning”) language? Oops. Did I say that?

          • not sure what that is. sorry i failed english in school, adjectives, adverbs, conjunctions, no clue, lol

          • Jcm,

            Stated, ‘ one must learn to understand the clues in the poem by the figuring out the hints in the book;”

            In my opinion. If you don’t understand what your reading in the poem you won’t know what to look for in the book.

            fenn said something to that effect. The book hold subtle hints if you know what to look for.

            The difference of opinions here is not unlike the different way folks read into the SB. If something makes a little sense to that reader and lines up with their theory it must be a clue…right!

            With a word that is key, would it not be more logical to be in the poem? If not, then it would be almost impossible to find or even know of it’s existence.

            This reminds me of a great discussion about IF you only had the poem, could it be or how would you be, able to solve it?

            Quick version; you are handed a poem from your great great grand father…Nothing else…No information / comments…book…or even the knowledge of who wrote the poem. Just your G fathers saying…if you solve the clues in the poem it will lead you the a chest full of gold and trinkets.

            How would you do it? or could it even be done? I’ll even add… would you even try?

          • @Seeker. How many times must I repeat myself? You’ve been saying this for sometime now. I think you should correct yourself, or explain why the TTOTC says in two different spots that clues are scattered throughout the pages of this book. The word ‘hints’ is not used.

          • Search the west,

            No need to correct myself.

            All is of an opinion, Not unlike trying to understand the poem. The dust cover says one thing, Fenn makes comments seem to say another, One being they are unintentional. In my previous comment I paraphrased some of fenn’s comment….Those comment are not taken out of context, but refer to just that.

            I use to keep quotes, Q&A’s, statements, comments, [ No longer do ] Like most here do. The fact of the matter is…some seem to contradict themselves…Understandably so. How many time can one man be asked similar questions [ by searchers, reporters etc, repeatedly ] over a 4 + year period and answer them exactly the same way.

            So what do we do? we find what works for us in our own little brilliant solutions.

            I bring up the scenario [ if you only had the poem ] to provoke thought.

            Hell, there wasn’t even mentioned of a “word that is key”, till a few months ago, There was never even talk on the blogs about it… not unlike The “Rocky Mountains” were not of fact, till fenn stated that over 2 years ago. Canada wasn’t ruled out till the map came out [ TFTW ]. No Utah, No Idaho, etc. The 1st two years folks were searching all over the US. and Canada.

            So if we were not told those things… How does the poem tell us?

            My only thought here, is again, to provoke a different line of conversation…Maybe Just maybe some one will chime in and give a suggestion on a different concept.

            or not……..

          • Search the West – f was asked about the clues sprinkled thoughout the book statement at an event sometime ago and his response was something along the lines that the use of the word clue was probably not the best word to have used and that hints would be more appropriate. Don’t take my word for it though, it is best for people to do their own research and not rely on others for answers, no one is going to hand-hold anyone else to the chest.

            Seeker – I have said it before, I like the way you think and question and you are one of a few that I give much attention to. Not that I agree with everything you say; then again I am not sure I agree with everything that I say.

            With regard to your hypothetical situation, it is just that, hypothetical. Reality for me is that the poem isn’t a lone island and f gave it to us in the book for a reason. He has expressed that reason many times with regard for how to find the chest. But everyone is welcome to approach their solution as they desire, I certainly don’t want to get in their way.

            My opinion is that if all that you had was the poem and nothing else, you would be very hard pressed to figure out the location of the chest.

            Why is it so difficult? My opinion is because there are subtle hints in the book to be understood and a word that is key figured out, and then there is also the requirement to solve the clues themselves once you are understanding the subtle hints and have the key, which solving apparently requires mostly imagination. Someone will eventually find the chest if they are cunning enough and have the perseverance to endure the process of figuring out all these things. And the funny thing is, at the end the person will be wondering what took them so long… go figure.

            I keep reading the first line of the last stanza of the poem and ask myself: am I hearing him and more importantly, am I listening? Just about everything else and all opinions are mostly just distractions at this point.

          • JCM

            I have not found one clue in the book, however I can see how some people can interpret them that way. For me the book has only been hints to support the poem.

          • JCM,

            Great write up. especially the part of me being brilliant… Ok that was just MY interpretation lol.

            But lets look at that one line “So hear me all and listen good” Just thinking on that line only, is Fenn saying to heed the words in the poem or even the book? or listen to how the poem sounds?

            There have been many ways of interpreting each line etc. and this line has many itself. Some folks have even suggested that, it could be the starting point, such as…Once upon a time… but could it be just has simple as reading the poem out loud, for whatever reason that would make.

            Not just understanding meanings, Phrases, metaphors, number counts etc etc. but actually hear the poem?

      • GG, not trying to make you feel worse. The post was so out of character for you…just making sure you’re okay; and reminding you to be the outstanding example I’ve come to know you for. Kindest regards.

        • Seeker,
          Well said.
          May I add …. Not everything thought about this treasure is Blogged. I for a long time searched this with no book. Poem only and formed pretty good ideas.. Although most of them are terrible, my main idea has not yet been shook , and no I have never posted my spot but to Fenn. It is a process that must undergo to find it… ” It will take Mettel enough to strike that trail.” Heck that’s me all the way … Why!!!!!! Why!!!!!! Why!!!!???!!!???!?!?!?!?!?Why……… haven’t stopped the Y’s yet., Mindy reminded me yesterday not to give up reminded me that I’m truly Flexible , with out breaking… Well maybe a crack or two …lol

        • Mindy,

          Maybe it works something like this.

          Key word = Title = Tidal = Moon

          look for the moon.

          just a thought..

        • Went fishing in the HOB section (only 400 comments long) & found a keeper….

          “_____Carolyn, I said “no comment” refering to HOB. Never said Id never comment on not commenting about the comment for HOB.

          Is HOB a thing? “In a word–yes.” F. “If I told you what it was, you would walk right to the treasure!” F

          There, I commented___________”

    • I think I remember Forrest saying that Incision is the “Key” to flexibility…. Ik I started looking for the codes with in this thing first. They are there , weather they are the right hook to byte is another Story…..The more I looked the more hooks were out there I felt like pulling my arms in and backing out also…Scared to be snared…By what , Mr. Fenn’s hooks. See my take is Fenn
      Is fishing all of us, and he ties a heck of a fly. I understand him that way . Q…… If there was no map or book , how would you find this thing unless he left a open clue , in which he did . So if you find the treasure with this clue please share it with me…lol
      8.25 n is not true north , So I know that it is off by 7 degrees east So I converted it to Nautical miles because he wouldn’t talk normal miles, he was a pilot, so was my uncle who was president of federal aviation’s once and he flew a Air bus in Nam and spoke that way all the time….So it’s what 9.49393 by E3° due to true north being at 10°E By Magnetic compass…
      So y is 10 miles and x is also ten miles and you can figure the rest.. I have been down this trail already and it dose lead to a location . The real question is that where he put the gold?
      Just a thought please share

      • Mr. D, not trying to be persnickety but the magnetic declination at Santa Fe is 8° 36′ 30″ E changing by 7.2′ W per year; that’s using the WMM 2010 model. Using the IGRF 11 model it’s 8° 35′ 31″ E changing by 7.4′ W per year.

        Like I said, not trying to be picky but a little bitty spot on a map is a really big area to search in the real world.

        • This is true.
          I bought a copy of the actual map …Only because I didn’t have the map or the books , only what I saw here and herd from forrest.But the maps has no Key on it… Only true magnetic north listed at 10 degrees e So , it was not by a search on line checking but, by the actual evidence on the map. THERE IS NO MAP KEY , but 5000-10200ft which you would need to draw a map.. Just a lead I don’t know but I do know he said all you need is the poem after he gave the mileage………So I built a X y bracket crossed the lines , x mark’s the spot… I don’t know .

          So if you were to build a map , you would need a distance, he said 8.25miles n of sante fe.
          plus the distances in ft 5000-10200 ft…

          Let me explain
          So … I also understood that Fenn tied the Ball in his room by adding 3 strings a day if he could… And he even said how he tied it.. So that brought me to Equsational graphing ,or comparison of operations and STRINGS , Fenn said he knew all the tricks and tied it in a square knot., well Fenn tied at – on a x y axis point. This to me would explain his understanding of physics to fly a plane. Using the following equation for stable flight T>D/L<W … It would matter to understand
          under cyclone drifts and above cyclone drifts. As well as programing the flight instruments , Where I believe DE-Notational Semantic Programing languages handles that , I'm not real sure. I just know how it functions….
          The use of the word End , "A Point Line or Limitation that indicates the full extent, a degree with in limits or area…. Which "limits" almost indicates the chest is moving … If I didn't know better I would say it is with his Captain Kidd Comment… Greedier Island was and is sinking…

          I'm not saying this is correct or my location here is right ..Just another hook to me.. Plus Im new to this so I don't think my Ideas are any better .. The more I dig the bigger the story is getting .. Where Even my main location for my search is starting to say plethora of evidence….
          But manerivas skin is frustrating me in that area. Where I have found that type of rock In another location… So my guess is as good as yours….
          Just putting it out for everyone to pick at….

          • Mr. D I didn’t understand most of what you said, but I don’t understand a lot of what is said around here so that’s normal.

            Anyway, to answer your question; My take on the poem has changed and flip flopped over the years. I lean more to the literal (more or less) interpretation of the poem.

            I remember laughing the first time I read the poem. I’ve roamed the Rockies for over forty years so I was able to write down a couple hundred places that fit some of the clues off the top of my head. I remember thinking; good grief that chest could be anywhere. The poem says he’s going to hint of riches new and old. So he planned to give out “hints”, which he has, and be involved with the searchers and the chase. I decided there was no need to get fired up because this was going to be a marathon not a sprint.

            The one commonality I’ve seen with everyone; the mystic club, us dumb literal guys, and everyone in between, is that we find a few clues that fits with our theology of the poem perfectly; so perfect that it just has to be right.

            Then we start stretching the other clues to fit our spot. Some of the contortions used around here to make the “odd ball” clues fit would make Houdini proud.

            It’s been an interesting display of the human condition, some sad, some funny, some mean, some out of touch with reality living in a romanticized fantasy land, and some just flat out weird.

        • Hi Mike or Mr.D,

          My take on the poem is that I have learned so much about the Rocky Mountain Region! I think like many I began immediately by searching online my various ideas. I was wrong about a lot of them but I now know they are there and even some history to go with it. As I have said before I now have a long list of places I want to go see that I never even knew existed before this Poem. You have to love the internet…:)

        • Thats It, your fastidiousness has given me the elucidation I was looking for.

          Mystic Fenn Fan Club, here I come.

        • Sorry I haven’t slept in like two days , and was reading Fenn over and over… My mind was on 7 topics when I wrote that .. Sorry
          Not for the post , just they way I worded it.

          . .
          . . .
          . . .
          . . .
          ……… . . . . . . . . . . . . . x10+
          . 8
          -1 . .
          ……… ……….. 25

          String theory of Motion……. Just a guess if you need a map. Remember the Ft level what 5000 to 10200 ft … something like that. So if you find this treasure bold … I get 40 percent…
          This type of stuff is not easy to explain over a blog. The word ” IN ” in the poem will lead you to this theory… His Daddy was a teacher, and Fenn is in a sort of way. Coded messages…Like his funny hat and since of humor which is in his brilliance of using words and making you see what you want… Not because I heard it. I knew that before I read the book or knew of this site…
          This string theory is right off the definitions of the book.

          Now with that said, I don’t know if it would help any of you or not, I went as far as I could in the Mathematics , including PHI, which he very well may be using for you “Code Hunters” Which is the very formula used in building arches out of stone… I like Rock!

          Just my OP

          • I tried every thing to make that graph look right sorry.. You can get that data off my google plus profile… Michael Dantuono
            Under my post or my Friend
            Yutaca Sawai (VARIPON)
            Who is the leading robotic technician in the world. He has figured out natural turbulence, WHICH IS tHE CONCEPT OF ( z). Which the string theory I was reoffering to he has MASTERED.
            looking at it throught hi seye’s it would refer to sqt 1 and sqt 2, changing the code for op1 or op2…. I won’t get into any more details.

    • IMO I believe there are a few that is at the finish line but I also believe the finish line but it might not be as easy as Forrest has mentioned. Forrest said something to the effects of the poem gets easier as you go. Maybe that’s why Forrest thought it might be found sooner than expected, I know I’m at the finish of my solution and im coming to multiple forks in the road that fits the poem so just maybe the few are having the same issues

      • It’s not the poem that is difficult, it’s understanding the blaze when you get there. The rest of the poem after the blaze helps here, but that is where the real challenge starts. (IMHO)

        • Now I’m second guessing myself but I thought I that was in a interview him saying that, well disregard my statement until I find the video

          • Will,

            Are you saying you can’t keep tract of all the after the fact comments / statements, the dozens of videos, Interviews, TV appearances, what size shoe he wears or the name of his Crocks? { not the shoes, the real Crocks you make shoes out of }. Your lucky to be only second guessing yourself. I went full circle and now second guessing my second guess.

          • I believe your correct Will, the clues get easier as you get further along. If the clues get tougher than finding the correct wwwh then that’s a freak show. I guess that puts a damper on Milan’s comment above.

          • It is in the EIS interview…

            You have to learn where the first clue is; they get easier after you
            discover where the first clue is.

            But he also said in the audio clip:

            The clues are there; they are not easy to follow but certainly not impossible.

            My opinion is that if you get the first clue correct, then the others will be right there waiting to be figured out… Not that they will be easy, but that they should become easier once you are understanding the ‘how’ of solving the clues.

            The fact that people got the first two correct but missed the others is proof that getting one or two correct does not automatically mean you will easily solve the others.

            My question remains about how many clues have actually been solved at this point. F made the two clues solved statement over a year and a half ago. Since then he has stated a man has been closest, but also that several women had also been close. How is the man closer if he and the women all only got the first two clues correct? Seems to me someone (or more than just one) progressed beyond clue two.

  56. Ok…I’m obsessed with the key thing so one more thought. There are lots of “groups of nine” planets, reindeer, poker hands etc. maybe the nine clues are tied in there somewhere and that “group” is the blaze. Let’s say baseball…
    WWWH could be a pitcher
    Not far but TFTW – shortstop
    Below home of brown- catcher
    And on and on through 9 positions till one gets “home” as final place
    With Poker it could go through hands…with first place being “pair” then two pair…all the way up through the nine hands.
    I’m not saying that these are the names of the places…but that maybe the places reference them I.e. In poker example “Jean Mountain” might be “a pair”
    I have a feeling that one that has the actual places may not be aware of how they could be interpreted. (If you had jean mountain, double horns island, bears gulch, arrow river, blushing creek…you may never even recognize them as “a pair” “two pair” “three of a kind” “straight” and “flush” respectively) it would also be hard to define if the blaze was inside or outside of the poem as well. I don’t think there’d be an easy way to learn which list beforehand…but may be a crucial thing to recognize once you hit tarry scant to get to the final spot and the trail runs cold…in the poker example you’d know to look for some sort of “royal flush”. Whether it’s poker or planets or anything else it’s Just something I hope you will all keep in the back of your minds in hopes that this thing gets solved 🙂 I’m ready to hear what it is already! Hope this helps at least someone 🙂

    • If “Title” is the key word maybe it’s the “title” of the book The Thrill of the Chase??? I tried anagraming it first and I came up with nothing….

          • Number 4 was my favorite cause it could be a cut in the side of a mountain, tree or rock big enough for the chest, don’t you agree?

            chase (tʃeɪs)
            1. (Printing, Lithography & Bookbinding) printing a rectangular steel or cast-iron frame into which metal type and blocks making up pages are locked for printing or plate-making

            2. (Firearms, Gunnery, Ordnance & Artillery) the part of a gun barrel from the front of the trunnions to the muzzle

            3. (Building) a groove or channel, esp one that is cut in a wall to take a pipe, cable, etc

            vb (tr)
            4. (Building) Also: chamfer to cut a groove, furrow, or flute in (a surface, column, etc)

          • Yes, I have searched the Number 4 theory and have but it still didn’t make sense, I thought it might be silly but if you are looking at it as well maybe I will give it a try. What have I got to lose….

          • I love the number 4, it is my favorite number. You might say that I have never met a for that I didn’t like.

          • Could work for a blaze… Once found, you as an alinement. maybe the blaze is a canYon site. ‘So wh’Y’ is it ‘i’ must go…’
            do those two letters look like something?

            Just because the chest is not associated with a structure, doesn’t mean the blaze isn’t.

          • Well Wolf,

            It maybe because your the only one brave enough to enter the ” forbidden zone”
            My thought process is no place for the meek.

          • wolf and seeker, once the blaze is found, i’m pretty sure you have to go “in peace” before digging in to why is it. IMO.

      • for sure, spallies, the title of the book is “The Thrill of the Chase: A Memoir” title to the gold… all the talk of after midnight… do you notice the AM capitalized? AM is midnight and after… midnight is morning. AM. after midnight. i think it’s something to consider for sure. i went to Midnight Meadows, NM.

    • Jame Jones,
      I really like the way you think! I had never thought of looking at it that way before. Funny thing is I may have found your Royal flush; it even has a Jupiter fire on one side and dog named ??? on the other. Wheat will you think of next? lol

      Well done!
      The Wolf

      • Wolf…I’m an open book free for all today 🙂 just throwing it all right out there for anyone that wants to look!! If you’re really on a roll in the right direction check out the bibliography while you’re in that specific royal flush mindset…you can begin by noticing that “Bruno” is right below “Caldwell”…or cold creek. Then tie in the rest of the bibliography as applied with the new theme and check out your answers :)…now yes there’s an obvious old electric train that connected a Caldwell to a Roswell…but then what would be all that stuff in the middle? Fresh eyes and a good hand to play might make all the difference in the world. A curious set of things on that page there for the right mindset. Ugh. I’m just blurting it all out now haha…god I love wine

  57. I guess they both do the same thing it just depends if you like stuff listed by the thousands or with options/alternates included in the lines to reduce the size I the list

    • Yes, on the other site I had to go in and manually take out letters once I found a word I liked. Wow you might save me some time on this Thanks!!!

      • Goofy ,
        I like how you try to , make sense trough things when it looks messy. I respect that.
        You said” I couldn’t take a ribbing. I studied Shuri-Ryu
        for over 20 years , then taught it to problematic teens at Recreation parks. I had over 200 students. So , I can take a ribbing ok. But to take on for this statement ?
        “Leaning on the Key understanding. There is a photo with the key next to the chest…. Than another when it is closed , and the key was gone.” That was all I said, to be compared to a buffoon looking on mars…
        I have no issue to agree to disagree,
        or to dust my feet off. So, I already know what it took to get where I’m at through my theory and I never said I was giving up anything but this . Nor do I feel or say you are or anyone else here Is stupid. But, to disagree on the terms used by the people that have commented was wrong and of all Sir. you should have been able to pick up that. I’m not trying to rib you , or correct you ,I’m only posting to you because I liked your post, so don’t miss understand my intention, It’s not my whish bash .
        Plus I really don’t like Tarzan movies unless they are the old ones, and as long as they are on Mars with you all and forrest with a beer and the man up stairs , In that beautiful Garden ,ok bye me. But we have to find the key to the Spallis (I can’t spell) rocket ship ,and we can listen to the yellow submarine and Beatles cd’s the whole way there, and roast marsh mellows…sing songs and us all be friends…..?

  58. Fundamental i figured that was long forgotten info. Glad to see someone thought it held some weight.
    I’m really excited about a recent post from Forrest. It mentions an area that was in my crosshairs.
    I’m still waiting to see who finds the key to unlock his poem. I bet someone is super close.
    I believe the clues start in Mt then track south and end in NM. Of course i may change my mind tomorrow (lol).

  59. Exactly Mike. He told us the key is indecision. He also told us there are no codes, cipher or riddles.

  60. There is a post on this blog where Fenn said no codes, ciphers, or riddles among other things. Maybe someone can find it. People can find things they want to see in anything.

    • Dave,

      Don’t overlook the fact that Forrest said he likes to make up his own words. The question you have to ask yourself is what does he mean by that. His choice of words to many may look like cyphers, but is reality are just new ways of interpreting the words.

  61. It is possible the keyword is a theme to interpret. Read an interesting post on another blog where someone suggested the poem relates to a movie. A movie would have a title. It’s made up from someone’s imagination. He mentions celebrities. They said Kismet is a screenplay and not actually a book. He said movies lie to you. He said it doesn’t matter who you are but who they think you are. That sounds like an actor in a script playing a part.

    • I dont believe in that saying. I told forrest. Its not what they think, Its what you believe in yourself that counts. I wonder if forrest was all wrapped up in what people think of him. People are funny. I think differently than the main stream.

    • Dave, When forrest said what matters is what people think you are. He was referring to his gallery and said something about putting large adds in the paper to make people think your business is big. I know people and business’s do this. Like Bigger is Better. But I see it as Bigger is paying alot of money out. LOL. I do see why he would do this.
      But I am from the camp of not caring what the masses think. What really matters is what you feel about yourself, knowing your a good person and doing the right thing and everyone else can go you know where!!!!

      • I agree Lou Lee. Forrest put big, beautiful ads in high priced decorating magazines like Architectural Digest where wealthy people and their decorators would see them. He wanted his gallery to appear to have all the best paintings and artifacts, whether that was true or not. He needed to get people into his gallery and they would most certainly find something they wanted to buy. So, it definitely mattered what people “think” you are to get them into his gallery. I believe that often quoted statement applied to how to have a successful business and not how you were personally because it does seem to matter to him how he appears to his family and friends. Many people seem to use that statement to think negatively about Forrest and think it is his belief about a personal philosophy but, I have never thought it was about him… it was just about business.

  62. Saturday mornin math in my head
    Even before I got out of my bed
    What’s the square root of Forrest Fenn
    Still can’t make 4+4 add up to 10
    Took 15 years to perfect the words
    Why do I awaken before the bird
    Only 5 years since his diagnosis
    Me thinks the chest is beneath our noses

  63. So Forrest has said or written no codes, ciphers or riddles and have a child read the poem. How would a child think? Certainly not of movies and anagrams of Chase? I think keep it simple…….

  64. “Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by fighting back.”
    – Paul Erdos (1913-1996)

  65. Jamie,

    that is a great example of how the Blaze could be constructed. Maybe even why some got the first few clues and walk by the rest.

    I would lean towards a more natural view, but the same principle.
    although that wheel barrow “tub” looks about 36″….Just an observation.

    Like ya style…

    • Mickey likes it!
      Sounds like you finally bought a book, but I wonder if you ever read, VIEW EXCERPT from Fenn’s oldsantafetradingco site. Its pdf form.
      There’s another excerpt( War Chapter circa 2006) that holds several more inconsistencies.
      Was it deliberate?

      • I couldn’t tell you . I can’t read. But, If I could I would say , Every thing Mr.Fenn Is doing is to teach us a process… But, I can’t read and you should listen to Fenn.

        What I wrote above I learned Along time ago. I was adding to Mr.Fenn’s Tale only Because I wanted to share with Him. As far as Inconsistencies…. Im not a expert on the matter so …If he was being like that it most likely is to teach.

  66. Forrest has said last year only two parties had gotten the first TWO clues correct. He later said others continue to get them. I always wondered why no one ever questioned how many got just the first clue correct. FF is clever and used TWO for a reason, perhaps the first clue is esker than one thinks and hundreds have gotten the first clue correct but only a few the first TWO. He only said the clues get easier, he didn’t say the second was a gimme. If this is true maybe the first clue is easier than most think.

    One other concept I will throw out there to ponder. Conceptionally this is tough but just think about this. Maybe the blaze is really obvious and as such people do not follow the clues and go straight to the blaze.

    The Wolf

    • Wolf,

      Could it be the first two clues get one to the blaze and the other seven is to find the chest?

      * Those didn’t understand the significance of where they were.

      * 2 got the 1st two clues and walked passed the others.

      Why is it, we think the Blaze is the last clue…

      • Seeker,
        Anything is possible but I tend to think there another reason why they went past the other 7, because Mr. Fenn said to follow the clues in order (paraphrase). I try not to overcomplicate things thus I see the blaze as number 9 in the order.

        Now if you or anyone can explain how that simple order in the poem is wrong… I am all ears. The only time I see any possible instructions to move from the natural poem order is the term:
        “look quickly down” – in which that could mean look down further in the poem

        The Wolf

        • lol loco,
          I knew that would get you going. Too late – my solution already uses that concept!! 😉

          • LOL Wolfie, I am totally not surprised at that!! 🙂

            I was merely trying to get you and seeker from laying it out for every “lurker” on the web…..lotta sharp kids out there.

            Up to this point, 99% of searchers or more thought Poem stopped at “go in peace”……guess you guys blew that all to hell!! LOL!! 🙂

            Oh, well, the more the merrier!!

            Good Luck to Everybody!! 🙂 loco

        • “look quicky down” 6 lines down for the answers. and if you have the infamous blaze, you’ll see the string is 6 lines long. connect the strings. the first, take the chest, and “go in peace.” IMO

        • Wolf,

          Sure the clues are on consecutive order. The question is – as always – where to begin. I find it interesting that folks say Keep it simple, yet the author warns us it difficult but not impossible. He state we need to know where to start, but yet show us, at the very least, two obvious starting point. All of us have been through this a 100 times, so why is it so obvious the 9 clues are nine lines? This approach limits the imagination, does it not. I Think Fenn wrote the poem just for this reason…To make you “think” you know where to start. For me that is too far obvious.

          If you know where to start has more than one meaning itself.

          The poem is not only challenging us to get up and search… it’s the challenge of the wits, to see the poem the way it was written.


          • onuat,
            That’s all well and good, but if the ‘poem’ is in order and a searcher finds the blaze…there’s the chest? In the poem the Blaze sits near the middle…is the rest of the poem a fill in and if so, for what purpose.

            How does one find 9 clues in consecutive in a poem if search and the clues ends 1/2 way through the poem? Why take 15 years to perfect the poem just right and leave two full stanzas, after the chest is found by clues in order that end at the Blaze.

            Simple is like beauty…it’s in the [ i ] of the beholder.

  67. Wolf. I was just reading your thoughts on the blaze. Do you think the blaze has to do with the time of day one looks? Somewhere along the line I read of a flashlight referenced. Sunset sunlight shining on something?

    • Lynn D,
      No I do not think the blaze has anything to do with time of day, sun angle, solstice, equinox, etc. The flashlight is referencing something else IMO. At one time I considered it but there is nothing in the poem that could even remotely suggest that. I do accept that time and blaze do interact but not the way you suggest.
      The Wolf

      • Hi Wolf, Can you please revisit SB107 for a minute? I just posted a question over there for you…

      • Hmmm. Wolf. Thanks for your answer and point of view. That is what I like about this blog, every one able to give a thought or opinion. But of course there is a remote reference to sunset or days end in “the end is ever drawing nigh” it’s all the way you look at it. I have other thoughts about this line too and how it fits with the rest of the poem. I had liked your thinking on keeping it simple. Thanks again Wolf.

        • Lynn D,
          You actually make a good point with the end of the day so that part of time to me is does make some sense

  68. You Know,

    if you take Fenn’s key statement & then fit it with something I had missed in Dal’s HOB section……..well, see for yourself. Luckily the HOB section is only 400 comments long.

    ____” Carolyn, I said “no comment” refering to HOB. Never said I’d never comment on not commenting about the comment for HOB.

    Is HOB a thing? “In a word–yes.” F.

    “If I told you what it was, you would walk right to the treasure!” F
    There, I commented.____

    • So Forrest said HOB is a thing? Is a thing a PLACE? or Both…..I think this is driving CRAZY!!!!

      • Ironically (from my post below) the home/root word for Brown is “Bear”…now is “bear” an actual place? Well, depending on what’s around you sure. Could you just find “bear” on a map? No. it a place? In a word-yes. (I’m not saying Forrest’s HOB is Bear…I’m just illustrating one of many possible concepts of “in a word” you could use third base, cellar, foundation, or wherever fits depending on where you’re at in your solve)

        • Jamie, Forrest said to have a child read the poem. My thinking here is that when a you ask a child what the home of Brown is their answer will be related to a bear which goes along with your findings too!

  69. C McElroy- I lost the thread. PIE is proto-indo-euro language. Here’s a basic site that shows lots of origins including PIE (and OTHER lang’s- many tie in as well at points) If you look up the words in the poem you can find many ‘beginning’ meanings you may not expect. For example Scant comes from “to shorten” etc. while ultimately “hornless”. Water comes from *wher- ” There’s words in the poem that are uncanny in their relationships within themselves. Would you be surprised to know that many of them are about horns? How many mean “to shine etc.” or refer to the life /water cycle? How many “pick up/end where the another left off ” in pronunciation. Just something to occupy idle hands if you’re up for it…at the very least some bells are sure to go off and maybe open up other possibilities 🙂 did I say that again? Yup 🙂

    Here’s a basic sight to get started…while not the most detailed it’s pretty good for/ easy to see lots of info and many meanings at once. *even some of the basic words you’d least expect to matter may suprise you with possibilities. My advice is to check every word. Hope that helps.

    • * I’m not saying that as a red herring either. I’m saying it because once I got through all of it I realized just how big this thing really is. It’s like seeing a picture of a mountain vs. one real life. I, personally, do believe it’s “where to start” and the “beginning” yet makes the long road ahead almost nauseating to comprehend. Good luck to all!

      • My post went to Another person under your tag.
        You have been working I see . PIE- or + depending on how the sentence is started is how to read it, I just didn’t want to get to deep . Seems when I do people drop off.

        • Yeah- I understand, I guess I just figured if the poem could take years to solve maybe we could start talking about points beyond the most basic. I’d rather invest my chips in seeing it solved than bet on it being me specifically.

          • Jamie,
            I agree .
            I can’t search yet….That is why I post the way I do . I don’t care if it is me , just want to get thing for it.

            Fenn said once ” If I told you that you would go straight to it” So ,I will put you on the track I road.

            So with that said. I think there is a key word in the poem , there is no doubt.
            I have listed every word by definition.
            I also posted the Poker concept……
            I posted the Einstein theory.. AS I

            But I will say that if you
            did play poker . Build a line graft list 1-24 lines on the side and bottom ….
            count how many words in each line and place a dot at the junction… When you get done you will see that the dots connect then place them over you cards … If you didn’t draw a card per stanza you will need to do so to finish it.

            This is just a opinion , It had a idea.. that’s all . But Before I was Mr.D I was MIke who posted the Poker Theory.

  70. Another thought….to each of you who have asked Mr Fenn a question either on here, in private email or in person. Have you ever thought about what he does not say or address when he answers vs focussing on the answer he actually gives? Young Forrest learned an important lesson from his father as a boy when his father told him to always tell the truth, but not the whole truth.

    • Here is the email i sent him when i first learned of the search, couple of years ago,

      “Just learned of your poem and treasure hunt. Very cool. Just curious, you
      said the poem is all you need to figure it out, so if no one knew anything
      about you and your life, would the poem be sufficient to get them to the

      “Yes, but the book has subtle hints that will help you with the clues. Good luck. f”

      he mentions hints (book) and clues (poem)

      ive personally not seen anything in a map, gleaned from the poem, and hinted at in TTOTC that has pushed me to a definitive WWWH except for Hebgen Dam back b4 we found out WWWH wasnt a dam.

      not too long ago, I thought Canon City CO was WWWH based on one way to read the poem that i guess he ruled out in one of the scrapbooks saying no codes, cipers, etc, and dont mess with the poem.

      You know what is bugging me the most is that i felt this search was up my alley. They say my IQ is high enough to get into MENSA. However, the past 2 years have left me feeling very inadequate to say the least, lol.

      • This chase has baffled many sharp individuals, as yourself.

        The question keeps recurring, “How can the poem alone get us to the starting place?” I believe the answer to that question is what we must focus on.

        Then again Forrest has repeatedly said, “Read the poem and then read the book.”

        He has also over time added more clues. This makes me feel we must learn as much about the man, Forrest, as we can.

        Good Luck!

  71. Strange you mentioned that lesson from his father… I was just thinking about that also. His responses are always (imo) to lead you to where he wants you to go… from there it’s all up to you if you go down the right path.

    • I actually think he answers just enough so you believe he is answering your question. Then he lets let’s you take the path that you thought was there all along in asking the question in the first place. I don’ t think he leads you or misleads you. He just does not answer enough to change your thinking to lead you to correct your path. It’s sort of like answering a little child. They might be too young to hear the total answer so you answer just enough to satisfy their curiosity. They are happy with the answer and so are you. They are satisfied and you did not mislead but answered just enough.

  72. Dear Wiseone. I did not say whether I was happy or unhappy by his answers. I would just suggest everyone revisit the answers you have been given by him in relation to your questions and rethink what has been left out. I have never asked Mr Fenn a question but I will say in a conversation I had with him he looked away so I could not see his face. I had to look away too……

  73. My all time favorite show is on. “It’s best to start at the beginning. Follow the yellow brick road. “

  74. So, I’m wondering, if all we need is the poem, and the poem is so extremely vague, why do we not focus our attention on that?

    IMO, I think every specific waypoint is hidden in the poem. If ALL you need is the poem in the truest sense, everything should be spelled out somehow in those six stanzas.

    I don’t think any word should be rearranged. I don’t think letters should, either. Every letter and mark of punctuation is where it is supposed to be. Forrest took a lot of time to make words, letters, and punctuation to make it “work.”

    That being said, I don’t know if the “key word” references to the possibility of a sliding cipher. If that’s the case, I think that could be why the poem remains unsolved, because no one has discovered and realized that the word they’re focusing on is the key.

    And maybe the sliding cipher is only the first level. Maybe the second level is applying the golden ratio to the letters you got by the sliding cipher. Then, the third level would be to find either the coordinates of the chest or the new letters of the poem, which would most likely be totally different from the original.

    Just a thought. The poem is unsolved, in my opinion. If we are going to solve it, we’ve got to focus on the poem. Forrest has said that a child could solve it. The Boy Scout Handbook is a pretty valuable tool, I think. We don’t need complex equations to solve it. We don’t need to know ancient foreign languages to solve it. I believe we can solve it using methods we learned in Elementary and Junior High school.

    Tools like the dictionary and thesaurus are probably good tools, too!

      • Lol, Lynn. I did sleep, but halfway finished a chapter by chapter detailed outline of TTOTC.
        I want to say that scouring a man’s memoir filled with often heart-breaking memories feels makes me feel like an invader. I want Forrest to know that I do pause, reflect, and respect as I read.

        • Naw, I think you need to turn that around. No sucking up here, mavericks don’t like snivelers.
          Fighter pilots like their ego stroked, least that’s what ive been told

          • Not sucking up and not sniveling. Just saying that I’m not greedily picking through his memoir for clues without reflecting and respecting the message he’s trying to convey. Big difference.

    • Mindy,
      You raise some very good points and I agree with your thoughts except the sliding cipher, which FF has said no ciphers. I have found that using just the poem is the only way to go and then once solved, use the book to confirm the strength of your solution.

      There is a significant amount of information that can be found within the poem if one has the discipline to look for it. It appears vague at first but with a lot of research and thinking I am very confident that the solution will be found.

      The biggest issue I see with solving the poem is that we as humans tend to jump to conclusions too early and we try to put our own mark on the solution. FF didn’t ask any of us what we thought the evolution should be – he did it all himself, with perhaps influences from people around him, thus this is his solution and one must find Fenn and let him guide one to the solution.

      Too many will return to the same place over and over looking for the solution because of some misguided personal feeling. Let the invisible hand of the solution guide the searcher not the other way around.

      I predict that the solution will be a very big surprise to everyone, especially the finder, but they will have refused to let their emotions bias their quest to “Find Fenn.”

      The Wolf

      • Wolf,
        I agree. I am retracting the cipher comment. I’m trying to focus in depth on the poem and the book, then confirm with a map.
        I think a map can be a hindrance at first because you can make almost any locale “fit.”

    • Mindy- i can only find ‘ask a kid’ in reference to WWWH…and that it was in a safe location for one to walk up to. did he say a kid could solve the poem somewhere I’m missing? Not being lazy- I can’t seem to locate it anywhere….argh.

      • Jamie, I’ll look for it. I can’t remember specifically, but I think I remember him saying something about getting your kids involved with solving it. I’m not 100%, though! maybe it was someone else that said he said it. Sorry if that turns out to be the case. The lines sometimes get blurred…

    • Mindy,

      “IMO, I think every specific waypoint is hidden in the poem. If ALL you need is the poem in the truest sense, everything should be spelled out somehow in those six stanzas.”

      I’m not allowed to say you are absolutely correct, because I’ll be put on moderation for not providing a chest as proof. But, I’ll say this, follow that reasoning and you will definitely solve the poem.

    • I’m hoping someone can help me out with this. In the back of my mind I seem to recall Forrest in one of his comments say something to the effect “she will remain silent until the Spring” Am I just imagining this or can someone verify the source for me. I usually keep notes on important things Forrest says, but somehow I overlooked this.

      • Gg- I could be wrong, but I think you may be combining 2 things- in reference to special things in the chest he said there was something special and she would be pleased when she saw it (maybe Jenny site?) seperately was a remark about with winter coming and if he was the searcher he might stay very quiet until spring…

        • I agree Jamie. I don’t have the links but my recollection of those two comments is pretty close to what you have stated.

        • Jamie,

          Thanks for the reply. Did he specifically say ‘he’ in the last sentence, or ‘she’? I’d appreciate the link to that, if you have it.

  75. Here’s what he said about that. No codes, ciphers or riddles. He’s said the book is useful. What if he means that you will learn things to use in the poem. Example being he shows a boulder with his brother. Is that the heavy loads? You can figure it out with the poem alone but he’s said that the book is useful.

    You need a good map.

    • “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f”

      fenn ‘s other comment was, a comprehensive knowledge of Geography….study of the Earth surface….

      So the poem is describing the land. And the words in the poem cleverly show the reader the land. Straightforward, right? every thing one needs is in the poem…but the TTOTC-GE-and or Map are just excellent ‘research’ materials. Straightforwards to me.

      Interesting is the And/or…GE is a map of the world. One could conclude a Map is of the same.

        • SHhhhhhh…Mars is my theory…..Mine I say, My alone, just I.

          Funny you mentioned that I just recently found that out…and i didn’t have to ask my 10 year Nephew for help. My Computer skills must be improving.

        • I don’t trust GE. They digitize their images. That means what can appear as a boulder on GE, could actually be two bushes that were spliced together incorrectly by some underpaid intern. In this chase, inches and boulders matter.

          I have found a lot of other map services online that show actual satellite imagery, but they don’t necessarily offer all the bells and whistles that GE does.

          Here is my contribution for lurking most of the time. This should pay me up for a couple of months, at least:

          Microsoft Research Maps:

          I was able to see the first satellite image taken of my search area, from 1974. I found out it looks exactly the same.

          Flash Earth (real satellite images):

          You can’t tilt the view like with GE, but the images are real and clear.

      • He also said:
        “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search.”

        So is TTOTC “needed” or is it more of a distraction than help?

        • Goof – I am very careful with that statement. It was a direct answer to a specific question, so it needs to be kept in the context of that question. But I am certainly not going to get in the way of how anyone wants to apply it in their approach.

          I like this answer to a question from

          Craig, there is no substitute for thinking and planning and observing and looking at maps, unless it’s the desire to keep it simple.f

          I think I like the guy who asked that question. 🙂

          Looking at other statements from f that he has made with regard to using the book and looking for hints in it, f has specifically stated as he started each statement:

          “If you want to find the treasure chest…I’ll tell you how to do it.”
          “I have some advice.”
          If you’re really serious about looking for the treasure…”

          I tend towards the book being important and not a distraction.

        • The book is probably more of a distraction to the undisciplined searcher because there is more information to formulate a solution but we are only looking for “The one” solution.

          I have not totally discounted the book and I am not a poem purist but rather a “poem before book” type of searcher. That is based on this advise which I think is the best there is:

          “I have some advice. Read the book and then read the poem, over and over, maybe even memorize it. And then go back and read the book again looking for hints that are in the book that are going to help you with the clues that are in the poem. That’s the best advice that I can give. You have to find out, to learn where the first clue is. They get progressively easier after you discover where the first clue is.” – Forrest Fenn

          The Wolf

        • I like the way Wolf state; poem before the book type searcher. Lets face some facts that I think some have forgot…and other newer folks skip over.

          All that was presented was a book with a poem inserted. The book tells of short stories of the Author, but the poem is his challenge to us to solve.
          The Author could have easily hid “clues” in the pages of the story, but choice to place “the clues” in a poem. The book, GE / map are good research material.

          One reason for the use a poem IMO is the use of [ for lack of a better term ] hidden hints. The poems design and structure is one example of that. Something the Author could not accomplish in an entire book. But that is just part of a theory and only one of the reasons for a poem vs book.

          AS always….just an opinion.

          • With regard to research material…

            Research definition: the systematic investigation into and study of materials and sources in order to establish facts and reach new conclusions.

            And this statement about what research material is:
            “anything that informs you about your topic, that helps you develop, contextualize or support your argument.”

            So the book and a good map are excellent (extremely good, outstanding) sources for conducting a systematic investigation to establish what the poem/ clues in the poem mean/are. May I be so bold to say that the book and a good map are the tools that enable one to proceed with confidence to the treasure? And without them, you might as well blindfold yourself and go stumbling around in the mountains on a course that will certainly not be direct?

            I like the statement “poem before book”; I am looking at it as the poem dictates, the book and a good map clarify.

        • JCM I agree context is important……

          Q–We are not into poetry as much as the memoir. We realize the clues are in the poem, but were wondering if there isn’t at least one clue in each chapter.

          A–All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search. f

          The problem I’ve had over the years is that I can justify every spot I’ve found one way or the other with the book. Add a little imagination and the book can lead a searcher just about anywhere. If quantity is of any importance then Dal is correct with it being located near Yellowstone.

          Just another quandary of the chase.

  76. Sounds like a generic comment since he’s going back and forth from he to she. If you want to find it, then he’s saying keep quiet to anyone. Who would give any information they felt was helpful to another searcher if they wanted to find it themselves? Only a braggart would.

    • So are we to assume Forrest is possibly clairvoyant, or that he knows that the someone is a she because she’s contacted him & given coordinates, but hasn’t yet gone to get it?

      • I was going to go this next July, but I may have to speed my timetable up if a lady has an inside track on the location. Dang it why couldn’t I have found about this treasure hunt 4 years ago!

      • It could be a big diamond ring or just a big diamond. Since women love diamonds. I sure hope its not the other answer lol

      • WiseOne,
        Are you talking about this Q&A?

        “Are there any objects placed in the Bronze Chest that are connected, or have meaning to the place the chest is hidden? ~ Mike

        No Mike, everything in the chest is straight forward and visual, except my autobiography, which some might find dull. Oops, I forgot, there is one thing in the chest that I have not talked about except to say I don’t want to talk about it.
        It is something saved especially for the person who solves the clues.
        I think that person will be pleased when she sees it. f”

        If so – I’d like to throw out what I see in this answer.. not unlike the poem itself. The comas and periods. The separation of the answer MAY show two different meanings…
        …Save especially for the person who solves the clues.

        May not be the same person as;

        …I think that person will be please when she sees it.

        This Q&A, is one that has made me ponder, What item was saved? is saved, meaning as a keepsake or save as in rescued… for a reason, and who would be please about either?

        The item is for the searcher to find, but the owner or the importance of the item it’s self, is about another who will be please.

        Either way it doesn’t help solve the poem, but adds more mystery to it.

        • Yes, that’s the Q&A I am referring to.
          It’s made me ponder also. Who knows what that item could be?
          I just feel that by Forrest saying that the way he did, implies that he already knows that a female, a “she” is going to find the chest… How does he know that, if the treasure is still out there? That’s what I mean about saying maybe he’s clairvoyant…

          • Well, If that is what he meant by the reference SHE, fenn does have one up on us.

            Can you imagine the solves he must read through, from e-mails And then someone sends the correct and complete solution yet knowing she/they have not gone to retrieve the trove yet?

            Gonna be a long winter….

            If someone did just that….I’ll be the first to give [ her ] a standing O. When it becomes known to the public.

          • I sometimes wonder if it is possible that someone has solved the poem and retrieved the chest, but for whatever reason, has decided to keep quiet about it. Not even telling Forrest.

            They could be watching the forum now, occasionally posting. Maybe hinting at the real solution to see if people get it, or maybe hinting at the wrong solution to lead people astray.

            Maybe I am getting paranoid.

          • a long winter yes indeed. Don’t bet the farm on the “she” part just yet …. it just means the race is now on.

          • Mark J,

            paraphrasing the following;

            As of a few weeks or so ago, fenn made a statement…. the treasure is still out there.
            Dal commented on this as to the wording used…that on most occasions fenn used the term , as far as we know…

            The exact wording can be found if you want to review it some where on this blog. if I should happen across it I’ll post it here.

    • I remember that answer,and as I commented at Jenny’s, to me the most important take is the insinuation that one can solve the poem in the comfort of his/her home, then go directly to the chest.

      Here’s the quote in question:
      “It seems logical, that if someone solves the clues, they will retrieve the treasure immediately… With snow coming on the situation, this changes of course; in which case, if I were the searcher, I’d stay very quiet until spring.f”

      • Liviu, a couple possible scenarios – a solve looks good on paper or has one of the coordinates but not both or not to the exact spot. Or perhaps two locations were emailed. If ff doesn’t reply or give out confirmations how would he/she know if they got it right.

        Also, ff’s statement almost sounds like you could solve the clues but still not have the chest. So imo there is room or “play” between what only forrest knows in his mind and what any searcher would be still guessing or making assumptions about their solve. All very mysterious. And from the time ff said shhhh to the ‘she’ I’ve noticed Diggin Gypsy (the one ff is betting on) has been pretty quiet. Just my thoughts.

  77. The ABQ Journal wrote up a story about Tom Hoesten’s claim that he knows where Forrest hid his chest and has a picture of it to boot. I placed a copy of the story in the media coverage section.

    If you are not familiar with this section it has many TV, radio and print stories about Forrest and about the chase. The story about Tom’s claim is at the top right now.

    • Yes but I believe Fenn said “there’s no story here”. And I found the missing tree Tom was talking about dissapearing. and I showed him full graphical explanation of it on and it was never shown, almost as if he wanted the mystery of the missing tree to continue.

  78. Off topic…but wouldn’t it be hysterical if Forrest had just jammed that bad boy into the worlds biggest ball of string at some road side attraction 🙂

  79. Mark J. – from past sb discussions or an interview, I believe forrest said there is a way he knows the chest is still in place. He said something to the effect he doesn’t want to say how he knows, or too big a clue. (Paraphrased, and I don’t have a link to that comment).

    • Yeah I have theories on that….

      like its hidden out in the open “camo’d” north of santa fe, maybe near Taos and he drives by it and can tell it’s not been taken because he knows what he’s looking for. Remember his take on the fox dressing like the hound. In order for chickens not to freak out and panic the fox needed to “look” harmless and as normal as their usual environment.

      Or Perhaps he paid someone a LARGE sum of money with a waiver or dislcaimer to the treasure, in order to check on it every 2 weeks and let him know its still there (someone he can trust has no greed for taking it for themselves)

      Or there are GPS tags he could put in the box. I think back in the 90s simple location readout wildlife tags could last up to 2 years, so Im sure by 2010 there are better quality ones with longer life…. Its a possibility even though I haven’t looked much into it.

      Anyway just a thought.

  80. Maybe we can get f to confirm that it’s still out there… Forrest?
    There may still be people that want to search yet this season…. Like me!
    I thought f said that he would let Dal and the news media know as soon as it was retrieved.

    • In marketing, there is a stage referred to as “newer pioneering”, or simpler put, re – igniting the brand. We can’t get bored and lose interest now can we? When he says man, the men frill up. When he says women, the women heckle with joy. When he says both, everyone’s excited. U T’s the THRILL of it all!

      • Regardless of if it has been found or not, that will not change our vacation plans, if we can take a vacation that is.

        • I already have a trip planned for the spring and it’s in Colorado!!! I have been saving my vacation days for it…

    • Well, I have always been a bit of an odd duck ready to jump off a bank when the others stood their ground. I think I might be ready so here goes…. I think.

  81. I once had a question asked of me, how many people have searched for the chest? It was a difficult question to answer in many respects and my answer was ONE. This part I did not explain at the time, A person who is self centered only cares for the quantity of people focused on them, so a large number would stroke their ego. A person who is selfless would not care for the quantity of individuals, but rather their quality and in doing so sees the ONE individual. I believe Forrest is a selfless man and we are not a number to him. The Thrill of the Chase will live on, in you and me.

  82. Another take on WWWH:

    OTOWI. Tewa, p’otsuivi,’gap where water sinks’.
    Trading point on NM 4, 35 mi NW of Santa Fe and 7 mi W of San Ildefonso. Official gaging station for water on the upper Rio Grande. Nearby is one of the important pueblo ruins in the Pajarito region.

    Also, there is a couple of books about a woman that ran a tea room at Otowi. They remind me of tea with Olga.

  83. Wolf, I retract my prior thought about the “end is drawing nigh” I didn’t notice the semi colon there linking the next 2 lines to that one.

    • Yes 5 is a special number, because it’s always 5 o’clock somewhere. I am waiting on 5:30 myself 🙂

    • 8’s for fun…

      [8==• •V
      8 is double barrel shooting at (5=V)meadowlarks or scissor tails.

      {{8 is binoculars in tight focus.

      8 is the shape of a double omega. 8 sideways oo is a double ox bow – you must be equally yoked with ff in your understanding or effort along side him. 00 is wise owl eyes. 8 is a beginning and ending at same mid point [return to where you started and know it for the first time].

      8 in music position scale is both beginning “do” and ending “do”(doo-doo is hob)

      E instein hinted
      I imagination may
      G get U
      H eaven’s
      T reasure

  84. Ed, I would enjoy hearing your thoughts on both 5 and 8 🙂 …
    in between making pumpkin pie and stuffing.

    • fiVe the v is wedged in there. Roman numeral for 5 is V.

      8 Return to starting point. Relax and soak.

      8 Binocular vision or l oo k

      Of all an Owl’s features, perhaps the most striking is its eyes. Large and forward facing, they may account for one to five percent of the Owl’s body weight, depending on species. The forward facing aspect of the eyes that give an Owl its “wise” appearance, also give it a wide range of “binocular” vision (seeing an object with both eyes at the same time). This means the owl can see objects in 3 dimensions (height, width, and depth), and can judge distances in a similar way to humans. The field of view for an owl is about 110 degrees, with about 70 degrees being binocular vision. By comparison, humans have a field of view that covers 180 degrees, with 140 degrees being binocular.

      8 Figure eight knot. Think dude ranch and roping Cody.

      • Ed, thanks, very insightful! Especially enjoyed your owl research and visual of roping Cody. I wonder if Forrest has ever barrel raced on horseback.

        busy here with thanksgiving cooking/prep… I’ll be ready for days end to draw nigh and relax & soak in a tub.

        This ornament contest lit an organization fire under my feet, so I’m all done decorating and shopping to enjoy the season and my family. Warm thanksgiving wishes!!

  85. 42… My wise owl eyes love your way of thinking!
    An 8 sideways also looks like the “infinity” symbol. ∞
    Do you think I need to get in my Infiniti and start driving?
    I Do, I Do!

  86. Mindy, so fun! I love everybody’s word pictures, and your time standing still fits perfectly with the poem, memories, little gidding, etc.

    Now, back to pumpkin pies O O
    and WWWSit (aka kitchen sink full of dishes).

    • I came home from work (we got off early today) expecting to have a whole house to clean. I was pleasantly surprised to walk into a spotless home thanks to 3 sweet kids!
      We will see if they are still this helpful tomorrow after I destroy the kitchen. 🙂

      • Mindy, what a sweet thing your kids did for their mama!
        Mine did those things when they were little and encouraged by daddy. Now they are men in the care of wives or equally messy roommates. I Can’t wait for everyone to be home tomorrow and the house filled with laughter. Enjoy your kids everyday – you will blink and they will be away at college.

        • I think it takes far too long for kids to grow-up and get out of the house. Perhaps legislation would be in order that mandates kids being out on their own by age three.

          • Legislation to get them out of the house by three seems a bit harsh. Now having them get a job and start paying rent may be a better way 😉

          • Dal, you must have been burned by some child in their terrible twos.

            I have a grandchild that is two. I used to be his favorite, now he doesn’t seem to want anything to do with me.

            Can hardly wait until he is three or more. 🙂

          • Dal, lol!!
            and there’s truth in what you say. 100s of years ago families “fostered” their jr high age kids out to another family where they learned respect and hard work under someone elses tutelage – especially when becoming Knights. I like “third party parenting” during teenage years.
            I started working in 7th grade in my fathers business. His work ethic and meticulous attention to detail prepared me for every job I’ve had, and I still had daily chores at home. There’s no substitute for learning to work, or learning respect from a boss.

          • That’s hilarious Dal…….It took a little time for my wife to adjust but she finally figured out there is life after kids. Now we have grand kids.

            @Mark; two thumbs up…….Put them puppies to work. I’m a firm believer in child labor, lots of it. My kid’s theme song was 16 tons:

            I was born one morning when the sun didn’t shine;
            Grabbed me a shovel and went to the mine.

          • Ha! Dal, sometimes I believe the same way! Especially when my 19 year old comes home with a tattoo. :/ (Not that I have anything against tattoos! I just didn’t imagine my daughter, who used to cry at the sight of a speck of blood, coming home with nearly a full sleeve)

  87. I love warm pumpkin pie with whipped cream…Happy Holidays everybody! Don’t forget to tell the special people in you life how thankful you are for them and that you love them 🙂

  88. *Food for thought*

    I’m wondering if Forrest when he wrote the thrill of the chase considered that someone would use optical character recognition software. Keyword searches and also use those keyword searches for association purposes. Pattern searches looking for patterns in writing styles.

    Example: associating coffee/whole
    Example: associating coffee/middle

    Keyword associations will crack the chase wide open.

    Imagine a massive board with circles certain words are placed together in circles.

    • Ed- That’s been attempted by more than one person in the past using a couple of different methods. None found the treasure.

    • I have been using an Organic Optical Code Reader, and it has not been successful yet, it has shown promise.

  89. OK I am back for the time being…

    I was looking at Marble Colorado as related to the chase….
    Marble could be associated with how he liked to make/play marbles as a kid AND marble from there was used to make the Tomb of the Unknowns in Arlington National Cemetery, which goes with the theme of the missing French soldier and other themes in TTOTC of people forgotten and soldiers of forgotten wars…

    • Clues IMO the marbles are a visual aide/layout of the spot. You also have night, five, and middle all part of that chapter. Understanding those associations can be done by searching chapters for keywords IMO

      Take for example all the posts about knives. What word would you associate with knife?

  90. Ed, thanks, I thought it was a shortened abbreviation for initial public offering. A few private home or phone comments addressed lately. Not good to think anybody in this game is trailing you! Lol Bolivia on a stolen horse – he better be lightning fast, and not only named lightning like Forrests horse was.

    • SALT LAKE CITY — Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid met their maker in a dusty Bolivian town on Nov. 6, 1908. Historians say they are dead. What refuses to die is the legend that they survived that shootout and lived on.

  91. Well, I’m about 2/3 of the way done with my outline. I’m still working on it (between cooking some nasty kind of pork stuffing my mom has to have tomorrow or apparently she will die), but I’m seeing something emerging from a bunch of red herrings.

    Marvin is the principal.
    Ora Mae is hiding.
    June never got a spanking.
    Forrest is always in the middle.

  92. Very Cool Mindy Thank you for sharing!!! Gets me in the mood for the Holidays thanks. Pumpkin pies are in the oven now if the kids were still at home I could make them clean up the kitchen…:)

  93. May You ALL and The Fenn family have a very Peaceful, Warm and Grateful Day.
    Lou Lee, Chased by Bears in Jellystone Park and lived to tell….
    Blazed out of there…..

  94. Sending warm thoughts from Boston for a Happy Thanksgiving to everybody…..give your loved ones an extra hug today!

      • Thanks…even though I am currently at work for the next 4 days 8am to 8pm. Sucks being the least ranking guy in a certain job position. 🙁

        • Hi Lynn!
          Have been to NM in the Red River,Taos, Questa area last year. Had lots of fun and wrote a few stories about my adventures there. How is the weather? Good luck with your search!
          Th Wolf

          • Wolf, Thanks for bringing me to your story I loved it. I am in Eagles Nest right now. IMO the treasure is off of rt 64 in this area . In looking at the poem as a “map” instead of the places/ clues specifically written it has to be off of 64. Just my opinion. The weather in the mountains? Yesterday mild with the sun shining. I think today will be the same. There is a light snow cover that is melting. I went to the Viet Nam Memorial yesterday, made it by sunset. I can’t begin to describe how I felt being there, the only one, surrounded by silence and mountains……There are at least 2 Browns with their names of Brown on plaques here from what I could see under and around the snow. Red River had been on my radar at one point but I can not recall now why. I really have to start writing things down at home. I believe I will dedicate a room as “Command Central.” LOL LOL I am sticking with my original theory off 64, near a waterfall. Will check out horse shoe mine today on my route. Time for breakfast 🙂

          • Another revelation and I am sick with anticipation…..I now know what Robin Williams meant when said his humor came from channeling, some higher process flowing through him. The universe is with me. …..thank you.

        • LynnD-
          This is from Horatio- who can not post on the blog:

          Hey Dal! Looks like I’ve been called up for duty. Since I can’t post on your blog relay this message to Lynn D for me. Tell her to go back to the Vietnam veterans memorial and take a photo of the ammo box the soldier is sitting on writing a letter to home. Then send it to Forrest. The ammo box is the chest. Tom H. Got the first two clues right and went right past the other seven. I’m sending you an image of the bronze statue at the memorial and a photo of JD Salinger from WW2 that makes the TTOTC connection.
          (I love this game!)
          Thanks dal!
          Spend your half of the prize money wisely…buy me a beer!

          • Within 1 hour of watching his youtube interviews a month ago when I first heard of FF, that was the 1st choice of the chest for me, however without being able to tour the place in person I could not make enough connections from the poem and decided to move on. But I did postulate that if it was there it would be hid right out in the open where Forrest could see it without raising suspicion. Ammo Can would make for nice camouflage, but I don’t think it’s there. I’ll feel really stupid if I wake up tomorrow and BAM…. the quest is over lol

          • Hi Dal, Thank you for sending me Horatios message. I can only wonder why he can not post on here anymore. I took plenty of pictures while at the memorial. I see a soldier using his helmet to write on down on a bent knee from my view. I might take another drive there as I am only 9 miles or so awayand it will be onmy way back to Santa Fe.

  95. Happy Thankgiving to all! Watching the Macy parade and making homemade lemon ice cream for dessert later. Family tradition!

    Mindy that pork stuffing is probably a family tradition too! Have a great day everybody.

  96. Happy Buzzard Day!
    Dal’s explanation of a wwwh is awesome! And so was the wolf’s. And… so have several others who have put forward their ideas.
    If I may, (as I like crowbars! )… I have come to enjoy the theory of paint as wwwh. I had asked my children who were taught in school… water in its liquid state never stops moving.
    So, one way water might halt (stop) could be by either drying up or freezing, ie paint and ice???
    Ice… The Rockys???
    Paint was even more confusing …but f is/was an art dealer…Hmmm. So what now?

    I have to research painters and art? Wow, I might die before I figure this puzzle out???
    Thank God I thought in my mind, f gave a few hints to start with… O’Keeffe, Lawrence, Sharp, Fechin, Sloane etc. I’ll start there. lol.

    Finally, I had come to the conclusion I was going to have to find the right artist and painting to give me a “blaze” or at least some sort of hint. Again lol. Art History 101 for FF School of Treasure Hunting!
    It was following my last trip to the high desert, when traveling to the 2014 Fennborree that I had a bit of luck IMO.
    It’s when I thought I had a hint as to what I thought the poem might/could/maybe/perhaps be about. And I am not saying I know anything just that I had an epiphany…A take in my mind on what the Chase’s theme may be… IMO… And that is… well I’ll tell you my wwwh s first.

    I should say I always thought it was about gold and it still could be, this is just another idea I had while on the highway!

    WWWH could be the color blue or turquoise. Blue is warm and inviting. I think f is also warm. …Many thanks for inviting me to the School of f!

    Anyhow, I needed to find a blue that was part of the theme… a blue sky was just too vague. That’s when it hit me.

    The people of Taos have big blue skies. There’s a Blue Lake (big hint), and for an extra credit…blue/warm… the people of Taos paint their windows and doors blue depicting a sign of being a warm, and inviting…a place to come and visit, relax and rejuvenate!
    A thousand years and still there!
    So there you go just an idea…E Pluribus Unum… Seems there’s too many good wwwh s to narrow it down to just a few. How about our favorite hoB s or is that B a 13, just say n’. Brimely?

    Oh ya a couple of other things; Jones your sharp. Indulgance was part of my first solve before I was told my dog wouldn’t hunt but that is also before we knew the box had a/the name “Indulgance.”

    Lastly, I think the word “alone” is Key. … 🙂 and even if I’m wrong I’m right! Seriously Happy Thanksgiving!
    Mark H.

    • Thanks Mark. I’ve always been a fan of a good family recipe- from the first step to the exact moment to pull it out of the oven. My pooch isn’t a good hunter either, but he sure is a good a good kitchen timer…always circling the grill right when the recipe is just about ready. I wonder where he’s run off to now. These Pennsylvania Dachshunds are suck particular cooks.

  97. Spallies…they are two large framed pictures, both photoshopped into the photograph (you can tell by the different focus, overlap items, as well as the one on the right has the left side of its frame chopped off as well) they are hard to miss and large…the tip of each horn points to each painting respectively. Left has a teepee scene and right a mountain scene.

  98. Sorry Jaimie,
    I don’t see it. I still think it is quickly down from the blaze… Which on a computer screen is really a quick look down… to the vase… or what was that term somone mention for that type of vessel??? I guess I need to go google it as I can’t remember it…

    • I think the “she” comment was given out as “bait” to encourage some to continue searching and to feed the habit of many searchers who believe that his words are directed at them. The statement may also be a hint directed to the “he’s” that aren’t as close as they try to lead others to believe (Phantom?). The women searchers wonder if Forrest’s words are directed at them and the men are reigned in a little. But what do I know? Just guessing.

      • Raven, I’m guessing that ‘she’ is dazed and confused by Mr. Fenn at this point anyway. Hard to know if his ‘she’ comments are all ff’s fun and games with a small element of truth, and as you say bait feeding people’s thoughts about themselves as he chuckles at the paths of several ‘shes’ wandering the woods. I do think someone he/she is close on a solve, but geographical differences may not ever yield the real treasure.

      • I would agree.
        Though, another thought; SHE could be Peggy. I’d bet if this were over, she would be extremely pleased. But what do I know?

    • I think I have to agree with Jamie on this one. I bet the last bit of the brandy is in there. Don’t know if the 8 oz flask is in there as well but if it is…man that thing is valuable.

      • The Kennedy brandy bottle is sitting on the bookshelf in Forrest’s office and still has brandy in it. Forrest allows some to sip from it when they visit him. It is not in the chest.

      • Sometime in the early eighties. 48 years. 1838, 38 years. 80 proof. 1984. 8oz. Too many eights. My mind is going to explode. Let’s not forget the wall I 8ft high.

  99. Since this is the place to discuss the nine clues let’s get down to business without further ado.

    As I have gone alone in there (1st clue)
    And with my treasures bold,

    I can keep my secret where,
    And hint of riches new and old. (2nd clue)

    Begin it where warm waters halt (3rd clue)
    And take it in the canyon down,

    Not far, but too far to walk. (4th clue)

    Put in below the home of Brown. (5th clue)

    From there it’s no place for the meek, (6th clue)

    The end is ever drawing nigh; (7th clue)
    There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
    Just heavy loads and water high.

    If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, (8th clue)
    Look quickly down, your quest to cease,

    But tarry scant with marvel gaze, (9th clue)
    Just take the chest and go in peace.

    So why is it that I must go (Additional info)
    And leave my trove for all to seek?
    The answer I already know,

    I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak. (Additional info)
    So hear me all and listen good,
    Your effort will be worth the cold.
    If you are brave and in the wood
    I give you title to the gold.

      • Yes love you gold nugget Ed… I almost forgot about the gold in the chest was only thinking about the other beautiful things in it that Forrest has posted here.

        • Ed, yes your gold nugget avatar is a happier thought than your hangman’s noose. What did it mean anyway? I think I enjoyed Skippys photo the best 🙂

          • Yes for thanksgiving it wasn’t a good pic. I’ve been perusing old west stories. Outlaws were hung back in the day. Forrest mentions hanging twice. Once in TTOTC and TFTW.

  100. Ed, your take on the 9 clues in the poem highlights an interesting feature i have been pondering: we have a poem with 6 stanzas/9 clues that lead us to the chest, but the chest is ‘found’ at the end of the 4th stanza! Your solve has the 9 clues bunched into the first 4 stanzas with the last 2 stanzas as ‘additional info’; IMO the 9 clues/9 sentences in the poem is still valid, tho. IMO, when the poem says, “look quickly down”, it is the last 2 stanzas AND their clues that we should be looking down to in order to acquire the final information needed for our “quest to cease”. This makes the final 2 stanzas much more than “additional info”.

    • I tend to agree Mikael. It is a situation in which one should discount none of the potential elements that would/could lead one on the correct path. Also, as mentioned other times, and IMO as well, is that there are also potential layers to each sentence and/or clue aside from hints that would help accurately determine each “clue”. Aside from the struggle of solving the poem, I wonder about the actual last clues if they lead away from the blaze for some additional distance instead of falling in immediate area of blaze, so in effect is the blaze a waypoint still?

  101. So if anyone wants to come with me in a couple of hours or check in on me, here is my cell 508 330 6556. Waiting for it to warm a bit. So what am I supposed to do while out on the trail besides singing “99 bottles of beer on the wall” if I run in to a bear? It’s the only song that I know all the verses of. Am I supposed to put my arms way up over my head to look big 😉

  102. Lynn and GEY

    Good thing y’all are searching today on Black Friday instead of shopping and having to deal with the race of buying something y’all will have peace today

    Wish I was searching 🙂

    Good luck and have fun in the sun if it’s shining 🙂

  103. Ed, the outlaw connection to ffs comments about hanging – are what I suspect on some level he considers himself. Like a maverick, just outside the law on a couple of misdeeds in life… That were most likely for greater good anyway. Or better yet, the tc is placed just scant of legal with regard to searching on particular land designation. My research on scant and it’s part of speech yielded a legal definition of scant I’ve not seen discussed, and could apply in my solve. Thanks for responding. I’m making unlawfully good chocolate cake for a birthday. Bye

    • Hello Ed, I agree with most of your clues, but I having said that, I’ve had several changes of heart since I first began the chase.
      IF.. the poem is a map to the treasure it seems to me that the 9 clues must indicate an action or a change of direction. If that is so, the first clue would be to go “alone in there” as I did…… The ninth clue would be “look quickly down”
      He once stated that the second verse sounded like it had 3 or 4 clues in it.
      All of the other lines are confirmation, or hints. IMO
      Happy Holidays

      • Your forgetting the BUT tarry scant with marvel gaze. I think this would be the number 9 clue.
        Yes gone alone in there would be a clue you would figure out before you start. In my mind they’re are a lot more than 9 but I think Forrest is lumping them like (begin it WWWH and take it in the canyon down.) two separate actions same clue.

        • I want to tell you what I think, but I cant elaborate without risking something. But personally I think “in the wood” is if you are in the forest or a grove (as its defined in websters). I thought about the parts of “wood” (look up Images on wood for diagrams) to see if there was correlation but nothing 🙁

        • Lynn,
          I believe the 9 clues are only physical directions that move you closer to the treasure. All other words are hints to define the clues. The last stanza has a very special meaning to provide the necessary confidence to know you have the correct solution.
          I hope this helps
          The Wolf

    • Hmm legal haven’t seen that.
      A black stone vs something barely there. Black small and barely visible or Black stone. I don’t think he’s referring to a stone when he says scant. Enjoy your Home of Brown cake.

        • Putt putt, hmm nice thinking on butte. However for me, no buttes in my solve’s view finder or location.

          • Putt putt, now that I would be happy to do. Lots of housework today and I’m indeed ready to stop and smell roses. Actually, I’m at that point in life!

        • : a type of hill with a flat top and steep sides that is found in the southwestern U.S.

          The SW works but a butte not where I’m @

          • I know of such a place. Surrounded by three definitions of WWWH. Made of volcanic rock. A Butte with a small peak at one end. On that peak is a hidden lava tube behind a bush. It is a two and a half hour hike up from the dirt road.
            I was down in the canyon below today. Not searching, just enjoying the walk and watching.

  104. Putt putt – In words inside of words I had completely missed BU T = Beauty. And everywhere I’ve looked my marvel gaze has been an exceptionally beautiful vista. Love it! Thanks for resurrecting some beautiful memories in the midst of laundry and cleaning day.

  105. Keep one
    Lay down four
    If you’re lucky
    You’ll play some more.

    Keep four
    Lay one
    Uh oh
    Game is done.

  106. How many think all the clues are geographical features on a map? If that is the case what would be not far, but too far to walk?

    • RC, I think the 9 clues can be deciphered metaphorically and geographically.
      I feel “not too far to walk” is 1-2 miles IMO

      • And I also believe it necessary to look at things metaphysically also… IMO, if that’s possible. I am beginning to think f could be a meta-physicist. “Remember in that CW bookstore video when someone brought up the term metaphysical? Did you see the look he gave to Doug Preston and that other guy, (I forgot his name). He completely dismissed the question… Like Lynn said, “It’s what he doesn’t say, or leaves out that needs to be paid attention to.”

    • RC,

      I believe that folks think too much in single terms. Some think the poem is only a set of directions, Some think the poem is only Metaphors. Some think A map holds the answers, while other just try and find a single word that will magically open the poem to a single conclusion.

      I Believe that thinking in terms of anything having a Single answer, whether physical, metaphorical, etc.etc. will not solve the poem.
      Maybe too far to walk as nothing to do with how far a searcher must physically travel or maybe the meanings of those words work with in conjunction with others to give a totally different understanding of too far.

      IMO reading a words – lines – phrases by themselves to come up with a single answer / solution is just the wrong approach.

  107. Along the lines of mirror images…some letters are mirror images, some numbers are too.

    Also, the SHE, in my opinion, could be Athena, or Minerva.

        • Funny you guys say that, this summer I went to a place I “loved” that was exactly like that, and literally created ‘in the wood’. I searched everywhere and even went back a second day. I can’t imagine what I was missing and still have trouble even entertaining other ideas. So frustrating. Especially when all the girls recieve Athena references pushing us to feel like we are the warrior…

  108. How many of you think the treasure chest is somewhere in the Pecos Wilderness? If one looks carefully all clues are “in there”, except there is a problem with the elevation issue. Any comments about this matter?

  109. Good morning everybody. It’s time to rise and shine! Thanks Wolf and Ironwill for your valued thoughts. Wiseone, I am not back in Santa Fe until late afternoon/ early evening today.I have time for a last hike before I pack it in and call it a trip. I have so many more thoughts just tumbling over my other thoughts from yesterday. My head is spinning. I really have to get up at 4 am more often. I seem to do my best thinking then. Kind of reminds me of a poem by Rumi posted below.

    “The breezes at dawn have secrets to tell you
    Don’t go back to sleep!
    You must ask for what you really want.
    Don’t go back to sleep!
    People are going back and forth
    across the doorsill where the two worlds touch,
    The door is round and open
    Don’t go back to sleep!”

    ― Rumi

    • Yeah we are a few of the bunch that are up and at it already. I been up for 6 hours now (got up 4:30) at work by7am (east coast)

    • Lynn D, I’d love to hear more about your search. How about lunch or dinner today somewhere between wherever you’re at and where you are going. I assume you are stilli northern NM and heading south later in the day. I’m flexible on the time and place. I’d be taking my wife along and possibly my son. What do you say? Red River, Taos, Española, Pojoaque, Cayamogue(sp?), Santa Fe?

  110. I hope I’m not the only one who dreams of Forrest lol 🙂

    Had a dream that Forrest was at my house and his family and a few searchers were here after he talked to everyone he called me and Duane to visit with me alone, he wanted to know my solve and where I was going next so I told him. He said I had the first clue right, he had a map and put a circle around Seattle New Mexico lol there’s not a Seattle there. If there were then I thought that would be to far too walk. Besides the circle was to the east of Sante Fe not north. 🙂

    I thought in my dream he was trying to redirect me to place that did not exist. So Forrest I’m keeping my own solve. Thanks for coming into my dream it was good to see you 🙂

    Good Lord u have been in my dreams here and there for the last 2 years 🙂

    This is what happens when we think about the poem and Forrest
    We see him in our dreams lol ha ha .

    Thanks for the help but I’m not going for it 🙂

      • I just learned about FF and his treasure about a month ago. Since then I’ve read his book TTOTC 3 times, TFTW 2 times. And have dreamt about hunting his treasure 5 times. Funny how, even in my sleep, I can still add properly 😀

  111. Ok Just throwing this out there and keeping it discreet. Look quickly down l oo k is saying have you got what it takes find the chest?

      • Ed, do you think down means.. square down on the map. Say from 32 to 5
        2. South
        3. Downstream
        4. down of golf course LOL 🙂
        5. Down the poem for further direction.

        • 42, I am going to go with What is South?? Only because it is cold! cold! cold! here again and I bet its warmer in the South…:) But, maybe #5 is the correct andwer…

          • Spallies, your fingers are cold. I’m in the south and still kindling a nice fire to enjoy. My parents live in treasure country where it’s -6 and snowing.*Brrr*.

          • That might be a good idea!!! Can we do it someplace warm??? You know what they say two heads are better than one!!! With three maybe we would have a chance…:)

        • I’m going with #2 on the menu and because it says quickly I would say he’s not talking about on the map.

          • Ed & Spallies, wouldn’t it be fun to all be in the same room with our maps and solve, toss ideas out and discuss with others in the chase? I realize we all guard our secrets but it would be nice. I wrote a children’s book and was lucky to sit at a round table with a group of NY editors whose info was so valuable. Because of their info I went a completely different direction.

          • Thanks Jaimie, That is interesting??? Not sure what to do with it though… You have a lot of good ideas maybe you can join Ed and 42 and I and we can figure this thing out. Or at least have a good laugh while trying too…:)

          • I’m not sure a group brainstorm would help. How about I lead an expedition to the treasure. I’ve seen a lot of that just go in circles. Every once and awhile someone pulls a brilliant idea out of the ether. I have a complete solve. I’m going to test shortly. My mind will be fried if the chest isn’t there. I’ll have to re-release the poem and leave something BIG there it fits the poem perfectly. I don’t think Forrest wants this thing solved in his lifetime. Some days maybe, but generally he’s ambivalent.

          • Ed-..I had a complete solve too. No dice. I guess I just want to share some of the points without blabbing to the world. I still feel ‘in my heart’ that right undr the tittle to the gold and blaze was perfect. I walked down and rang the bell after a few days in the area with no luck…head in the gallows. Lol Maybe I just can’t let go of the pieces. I want to put them to good use so badly. Lol.

  112. @ Jamie Jones, I’ve tried exchanging emails, and forming a small discussion group in the past. For me, it didn’t work logistically online and our search areas didn’t line up…so interpretation exchanges weren’t helpful.

    I will say many people on Dal’s blog and on Jenny and Mike’s websites are very kind in offering ideas to explore. When I joined the discussion months ago I began reading every one of Forrest’s scrapbooks/vignettes and every subsequent comment. I also read every word on Forrest’s website, watched every interview, read both memoirs many times,Journal of A Trapper 3 times. Imo it all helps to understand the generous man behind the treasure and his enigmatic poem far more than discussion groups. My ideas are unique and only resonate with me and one or two others.

  113. What if the map is a Monopoly Board?
    WWWH= Pacific (or Atlantic, whichever is cooler)
    Take it in canyon down, not far but too far to walk= Short Line Railroad
    HoB= I don’t know that one yet
    No place for the meek= Jail
    End is drawing nigh= end of game?
    No paddle up your creek=Just Visiting Jail
    Heavy loads= electric company
    Water high= waters works (notice location on board)
    The blaze=the question mark for Chance just north of GO
    Take the chest=community chest
    Go in peace= pass go.

    IT could be Forrest’s favorite monopoly game piece, which I think might have been the iron. It was my favorite along with the Scotty dog. 🙂

    I’m just catching up with comments…I caved and got the kids a puppy today. I wanted to name her Minerva, even though she’s ebony, but the girls ganged up on my son and convinced him to go with the name Monet. My second choice was Pooey. 🙂

      • I like the name Monet!!! It’s a little easier to say than Minvera. Although, I am parital to greek names for my dogs I had my first white Akita names Zeus who then spent a year raising my new puppy Zelos (Zelus).

        What type of puppy did you get?

  114. And, I’m sure this has probably been noticed a thousand times before, but Forrest’s middle name is Burk, which can surprisingly mean “fool.” As in maybe…fool’s gold, a “fake” of real gold. No, I’m not implying that the chest or the gold in it is fake. But just trying to connect “the middle” to the poem and search.

    • I’m trying to reason why Forrest, in TTOTC, uses the word “dumb” or “idiot” so many times. I’m still analyzing each chapter, but I would guess he uses the words pretty often.

      • Not to mention Forrest describes a lot of foolhardy things (which can be attributed to youth), like:
        Tying cow’s tail to stool, and the cow swishes her tail and pulls it out from under him and he lands in a cow pie but doesn’t change jeans before school.

        Burning the map when they get lost in the wilderness.

        Tying a rope to the horns of a bull buffalo and the other to the axle of his brother’s car.

        Running across the desks.

        Going to a military school when he wasn’t registered.

        Peeing in the gas tank of his senior officer’s scar.

        Forgetting to get gas just the other day and stalling out in the middle of the intersection.

        Getting out of the car to walk that long stretch of road with no socks, coat, or money.

        We’ve all done foolish things in our lives, me more than most, but there seems to be somewhat of a connection between Forrest’s middle name and the foolish things he did as a boy.

        • 42 – Exclusively Wyoming.
          Oh I was just thinking that if the treasure isn’t there I’m going to have to redo it meaning that I would put something in the spot and just leave the poem as it is.

  115. I hunted last November in the snow, it was fine. Just had to turn back, when the now got too deep, not a soul in sight, had to just keep dreaming. Hoping and still I wait for the right time.
    Lou Lee chased by Brown Bears in Jellystone Park and lived to tell.

  116. Hi Mindy, re: fools gold
    It’s my opinion that before spending ANY time interpreting the poem or searching for the TC one should measure the man against his word (best you can) and based on your assumptions make a clear decision. After reviewing interviews, considering his family, military and gallery reputation, and Dal writing Forrest’s personal memoirs & out-searching everyone… Forrest hid the treasure containing exactly what he has disclosed. I believe him. I believe the gold and ancient treasures are authentic.

      • I believe Forrest has said Dal is writing his biography (not sure if it’s a personal one for his family) I didn’t mean memoirs – sorry, a long 3 days for me.

  117. Oh, I agree wholeheartedly, 42. I wasn’t insinuating the treasure isn’t real. I believe it’s 100% real! and I have never met a nicer guy than Forrest. I believe him and I believe in the chest.
    However, if my search led to a place like Fool’s Gold Mine, and the chest was there, I know that I would be in a moral quandary. It would be like an angel sitting on one shoulder saying, “Do you see? Money is the root of all evil. Forrest is trying to tell you that taking the chest will be a risk.”
    And then of course the devil has to show up on my other shoulder and say, “Sure, you want to help children in need. Sure, you want to help autistic kids. But first, you must get the new Chevy Camaro…”

    • I don’t think Money is the root of all evil it is their regardless of money. Other things are more important than money and could be interchanged. But yes there is always both good and evil… the key is to choose to see the good over evil. I think most of us already do this everyday in our lives…

      • I think everyone has a temptation or two they struggle with. With some, money would be the root of their evil. For others, gossip, or negativity, or video games, or soap operas). For me, it’s the overwhelming urge to buy puppies. Lol.

    • Very wise Mindy! When wisdom walks hand in hand with resources good stewardship triumphs. The risk imo would be ‘finder anonymity’ which allows you to listen to wisdom’s voice rather than the public’s outcries.

  118. I’m watching the movie Finding Forrester. In this scene the kid is typing on an Underwood 5 typewriter.

      • Hmmm, that’s interesting…there is a place in WY that seems to fit the Monopoly Solve, but I am trying to concentrate on one theory at a time, and I have to rule out Forrest’s family and friends being used as metaphors in the poem.
        For example=no paddle up your creek= June, because she never got spanked.
        Marvin stands to the far right.
        Forrest is somewhat in the middle.

        • His grandpa has a nice tarry scant on 44…there’s a nice blog entry/ memoir on his website about this. It’s titled about his grandma but the end is about gramps. You need to hit the arrow to go back to the earliest group if I remember correctly.

  119. Mindy, I enjoyed your clever family metaphors, especially June.
    Perhaps a mistake on my part, but I catagorize the ‘foolish’ deeds in the memoirs: practical jokes, misdeeds with consequences to learn from, fool-hardy, youthlike arrogance, etc. The shoeless references in my opinion are ‘sole or soul searching’ times. If all the foolish stories add up to one clue/hint, then I’ve missed the boat.
    You have strong detail reasoning skills, which should help you greatly in the search.

    • Mindy, you are right though… a fool searches for gold and misses true treasure(s). I believe given the right priorities, you can still search for ff’s treasure and enjoy the journey and adventure.

      • I agree, too. I believe that when Forrest wants someone deserving of the chest to find it, I think he wants someone who will use the money “usefully.” Another theme throughout the book is usefulness.
        I like what a Bible commentator said, “Hot and cold are both useful, but warm water is not.” Today, we know there are plenty of uses for warm water, but back in the day, you needed hot water to boil and cook and disinfect and cold water to freeze, etc…there was little use for tepid water.

      • 42

        And that is why Forrest HId the chest so that we could find the Treasure 🙂

        I know where I’m headed in June 🙂

    • Thanks 42. Now, if I could somehow get all the details plotted on a map, I’d be in okay shape. But, at this time there are too many theories bouncing around the echoing cave in my head, and I can’t pinpoint a place that fits. Several places come close, but I obviously don’t have a complete correct solve or else I would have the chest in my hands. Lol.
      But, I have at least narrowed it down to two states.

      • Mindy – I understand that believing in God should be hot or cold and not luke warm. It’s in the daily living that I occasionally end up in a luke warm bath of gray area.

        Spallies – I too miss youthlike spontinaity w/o thinking of consequences. I once rode 17 hours in the back of a pick-up to snow ski one day in Colorado. Dumb, yes. The best day of skiing ever, and also a day of worshipping God Easter morning. No church service could ever compare with raising my hands to heaven in thanksgiving for the beauty of creation and the sacrifice of God’s son on a majestic mountain top.

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