The Nine Clues…….Part Thirtyfive

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This is the place to discuss the nine clues…For instance:
What are the nine clues…
Is the first clue “Begin it where warm waters halt” ?

This post has now been moved to the archive and a new Nine Clues page has been established.

1,239 thoughts on “The Nine Clues…….Part Thirtyfive

  1. Slurbs sorry I did not see your post to me earlier. No Internet on the road, old phone. I would have loved to have met you and your family over dinner and discussed our thoughts. By the time I received your call it was too late. Let’s keep in touch.
    What I really wish is that somebody would find the treasure then we could all get together and openly share our thoughts with out worry of giving away a clue. We could see who was the closest and we could bring in Forrest too! It would be like “Survivor Reunion.” Yes I confess I am a survivor fan.
    Ironwill, where on the East Coast. I head back home there tomorrow and without a treasure…but I am ready. I miss my home and my pets. It’s time for me to get back to living, At least I will never say when I am 90 that I really wanted to do that but never did.
    I had a wonderful hike today, got PLENTY of exercise and took lots of pictures, I met many interesting people on this trip including my breakfast waiter in Eagles Nest, who was also the cook that also washed the dishes, rang the register and always had a smile on his face. Then when he got behind people got up from their tables and served the coffee and washed the dishes 🙂 What a sense of community.
    To end it all, tonight on my way back while on 599 in Santa Fe I was the first on scene for a high speed motorcycle crash involving a car. Both riders were thrown some distance from the scene and I believe only a miracle spared them deadly injuries. I just held C’s hand and cupped her cheek and told her everything was going to be ok………..
    On this note, good night and God Bless. Tomorrow I fly home bright and early with the birds!!
    PS: sorry so long and that it has not a thing to do with the 9 clues.

    • Radford Virginia. I’m an explosive powder cycle technician… but you can call me a “factory worker” if that’s too long. 😛 Speaking of which I have another hour and I’m off to the “factory” again 🙁

    • Great story of your trip Lynn! Do write it up and send to Dal. We’d all love to read it and see your pictures. I especially liked the part about the nice waiter – sounds like we should all strive to be like him in our daily life. 🙂

    • Hi Lynn,
      I have to admit I am a survivor fan as well… When the kids were young we had Survivor Thursdays (it was on Thursdays back then). We would make tacos and watch the show together as a family. I know its a reality show but I figured it was a good way for the kids to learn how people react and interact differently to different situations. Plus it was FUN to watch…:)

  2. anyone think the just take the chest line is a clue? I think I’ve finally figured out the end of my solve but this line isn’t important as a part of it….except for the obvious.
    Btw thanks for sharing ideas….I think it’s awesome you guys do.
    P.s.–had a bad dream that two pseudo professional treasure hunters beat me within seconds to the chest….because they were driving and I was on foot with a bear chasing me….if you resemble that remark may I suggest a lengthy out of country vacation come spring?

  3. A little cross country skiing near Mt. Hood tomorrow for me. Weatherman says 17°. I need to prepare for the cold. Night all.

  4. 8 thoughts on “The Nine Clues…….”

    It’s late and I have nothing to say, really — just that “9 thoughts for 9 clues” sounds better.

    Oh, and I have a question:

    Forrest once said something like “follow the clues consecutively. Was it ever determined whether he meant this rigorously?

    • That conclusion is why the TC has not yet been found.

      There has to be something before that or we can never know what or where the warm water is.

      Once we know that, our journey will begin there.
      Good luck!

      • “That conclusion is why the TC has not yet been found.”

        The key has to do with Forrest’s stint in the AF. I’m not able to reveal that now, but will shortly.

          • This has probably been said somewhere but skin temperature is something around 85 degrees. Anything less feels cool to the touch. I recall one time about 20 something below zero I was working on the radiator and got the anti-freeze on my hands. Then as I grabbed the car door handle my hand lost any heat it had left.

        • Forrest flew 328 combat missions in Vietnam. What would a thoughtful man do to live with that burden?

          • I could never answer that for Forrest or anyone else who has sacrificed for their country. If it were me I would probably have to think about it for a long time to process it which would involve a lot of deep thinking… Then hopefully choose to live in the sunlight rather than the darkness… imho Thank you again to all who have served…

    • Germanguy: “WWWH is absolutely, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the beginning…”

      Yes, I agree. The first four lines, the first stanza, just describe WHAT he did – not where he did it nor how to get there. And, the last two stanzas describe WHY he did it. So, I say the other three stanzas contain all the clues – which are a mix of descriptors (like WWWH) and instructions (like take it in the canyon down). (And “canyon” is a further descriptor). So, my view is that the nine clues are all in the 12 lines of the other three stanzas. Further, I discard “The end is ever drawing nigh” as being too trivial to be a clue – same goes for “But tarry scant . . “ and “Just take the chest . . .”

      That leaves only 9 lines, so I believe each of these remaining lines gives essential clues – either a key description, of sorts, or a key instruction, of sorts – perhaps both. And, are these not pretty obvious conclusions, anyway? (I’m not suggesting, though, that the clues cannot be analyzed in more than one way.)

      As there must be many places and paths that reasonably fit the key 9 lines of the poem, I think Forrest’s admonition to “consecutively” (correct?) follow the clues therein is meant to diminish some of the wild, IMO, interpreting of the poem – introducing numerology, for example. Has he not said as much in other comments? I think he is telling us that the poem, while engagingly obscure, is reasonably direct – as opposed to an occult puzzle – and that it can be followed step by step.

      However, the above observations, if true, are hardly enough to permit a sure and easy hunt for the treasure. Forrest clearly had no intent to set up a “cakewalk” quest.

      • Overthinker,

        I understand your comment was to germanguy…But I feel the need to chime in. You say you dismiss; “The end is ever drawing nigh” as being too trivial to be a clue – same goes for “But tarry scant . . “ and “Just take the chest…”

        But why, if as you say; ” …that [ the poem] it can be followed step by step.” Would you dismiss this line? If following the poem in a step by step direction, I would think this is a very important line in the poem.

        Defining each word themselves gives Just that…
        End: boundary or border.
        Drawing: Art, pulling towards
        Nigh: left side – or maybe west.
        Just to name a few examples. So I wonder as well do you dismiss stanzas 5 and 6 as well? IF your following the poem as step by step clues.

        • Seeker: >I understand your comment was to germanguy…But I feel the need to chime in. You say you dismiss; “The end is ever drawing nigh” as being too trivial to be a clue – same goes for “But tarry scant . . “ and “Just take the chest…”But why, if as you say; ” …that [ the poem] it can be followed step by step.” Would you dismiss this line? If following the poem in a step by step direction, I would think this is a very important line in the poem.Defining each word themselves gives Just that…
          End: boundary or border.
          Drawing: Art, pulling towards
          Nigh: left side – or maybe west.So I wonder as well do you dismiss stanzas 5 and 6 as well? IF your following the poem as step by step clues.xxx< as well as “xxx” to quote people and to quote books, papers, and such. If you can believe it, I often engage in drawn out discussions that need even further identifiers – such as >>xxx<< for something my “partner” in the discussion said further back in the exchanges. This may seem overly fussy, but it actually helps to sort of streamline what would otherwise be a more cluttered missive.

          • Uh-oh! Please disregard that reply. Some of my personal, complicated (but useful) quoting mannerisms apparently confused an automatic editor — resulting in utter gibberish. I will have to re-write my reply. In the meantime, thanks for your comments.

        • Seeker replies: I understand your comment was to germanguy…But I feel the need to chime in. You say you dismiss; “The end is ever drawing nigh” as being too trivial to be a clue – same goes for “But tarry scant . . “ and “Just take the chest…”

          I am happy for any “chiming in”, as the stimulation of such was a goal.

          Seeker: But why, if as you say; ” …that [ the poem] it can be followed step by step.” Would you dismiss this line? If following the poem in a step by step direction, I would think this is a very important line in the poem.

          Uhhm. You also tend to “overthink”.  I just meant, if you are traveling on the correct path you are automatically drawing nigh (closer) to the end of your quest, the hiding place. (And “nigh” rhymes with “high”. The poetic muse must also be satisfied.)

          Seeker: Defining each word themselves gives Just that…
          End: boundary or border.
          Drawing: Art, pulling towards
          Nigh: left side – or maybe west.

          But, in those comments are you not going well beyond what the poem suggests? I think Forrest has cautioned against doing that. Of course, I am not suggesting the poem is plainly clear – just that I believe it is more direct than many think. Example: I believe “drawing nigh” means “drawing near”, not anything having to do with art (beyond artful poetry).

          Seeker: So I wonder as well do you dismiss stanzas 5 and 6 as well? IF your following the poem as step by step clues.

          As I remember, Forrest suggested the poem should be followed in a step-by-step manner. But stanzas 5 and 6 are, IMO, clearly neither descriptive clues nor instructions for the hunt – only commentary on why he thought–out and instigated his highly unusual and engaging challenge. However, I do see a clue, sort of, in those last two stanzas. There, he is urging all (and families) to embark on an outdoor activity similar to the many he has had and that have rewarded him with an inquisitive, animated, deeply-fulfilled, life. While the treasure is a strong incentive, I believe he has been clear about the real prize being the thrill, satisfaction, and personally expanding nature of the hunt itself.

          • Well Overthinker, I can appreciate that you are trying to keep a simple directional meaning to the poem. I can only say…most if not all have looked at the poem this way. At first fenn stated the poem was difficult but not impossible…the the poem is straight forwards…as well as follow precisely and in consecutive order…

            I believe all the statements to be true, but only if you can figure out the meaning to the poem. That IMO is the difficult part. Understanding the premise helps understanding the answers to the clues. so as you can tell, I’m not a big deal on the poem being a step by step set of instructions.

            Hence the reason maybe, why some got the 1st two clues correct and went by the other seven…because they didn’t understand the significance of where they were.

            Sharing ideas about method of reading the poem is why we are all here in the first place…well that was the intent in the beginning, anyways.

  5. For anyone needing a morale “pick-me-up” after this holiday, I came across a GOLD NUGGET of Forrest Fenn’s treasure. It is a You Tube piece done by “Good Mythical Morning” with Rhett and Link (Rhett is the one who recites the poem). They actually did a 10 minute piece on Forrest Fenn’s treasure, where they recite the poem and the 9 clues. But the real TREASURE in this piece comes when Rhett recites the poem in the character of Forrest Fenn. I almost came to tears laughing when he did “Home of Brown”. He completely nailed the impersonation there. Since I am new to all of this(about 4 weeks), this may be old news and if so, forgive me for reposting. If not then please by all means enjoy the poem recital starting around 06:40 in the video and I hope at least some of you get a kick out of it….

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sAUB9sz5FQ

    • Those guys are pretty funny sometimes. I’m surprised to see that they did an episode on Forrest’s Treasure because I’ve walked in to see my 6-year-old (now seven) watching them and laughing his head off on numerous occasions. True story. It really worries me because that means my son is growing up watching ME and THEM. Poor kid. 🙂

      I think the “fire brand” idea is a pretty good one, btw…you know, to locate the treasure. 🙂 Without threatening anyone with it, that is…unless they won’t talk. Hey! I didn’t say it. He did!

      • Or both are one in itself. The first line [ as well as the first stanza] may just be the same as “Begin it where…” and the reason for, “why is it I must go and leave my trove for all to seek?”
        The answer maybe be all three.

        The real question is, where is the habitation of Brown?

        IMO there are a lot of hints to understanding that sentence.

        • That’s some pretty deep logic there Seeker…Guess you woke up OK from your triptophan induced slumber…

          And I can guarantee that the “habitation of Brown” has nothing to do with the chocolate creme pies you’ve been inhaling…lol…New explanation for “home” with the use of “habitation” too…hmmmmm…Have to think on that one a while…

          • Don’t be hating on the pies!!!….just the calories! LOL

            I can’t believe I ate the whole thing.

      • IMO onuat…It does that very thing if you read the first sentence correctly, but proper interpretation and understanding the metaphors is quite the confusion factor…

  6. The key to this puzzle is to see the big picture one word may be key but if you don’t find the door the key is just a hangup imo.. Wwwh could be anything without a helping clue..

    • Hey pieces, I sense a lack of confidence here…If he said there is a “word that is key” then it is there and you must find it and learn how to use it…He also said there is a “keyword”…Believe him on both counts!…IMO WWWH is explicitly stated, but (1) you would not believe me if I told you, and (2) it would spoil the surprise when you do figure it out!…Keep at it matey, thar’s gold to be found!…

  7. Remember Forrest Says:”Don’t Mess with the Poem”!! To me that means do not move it around take it in order and go from there. IMO I believe it is so simple to him it is difficult for us. A Red neck could find it. How does a redneck interpret the nine clues and find it so effortlessly a child could walk right up to it? Forrest says : “Read the book and then read the poem over and over again”… Again IMHO, that means it will come to you and all will fit and the puzzle will show you in your mind where it is. I still have lots of solves and believe it can be and will be solved one day quite soon!!!! Listen from your heart to the poem and let it’s beauty lead you to that secret place so special to Forrest he holds so dear above all else he wanted to die there and leave his legacy…..It is a place of beauty with a view where no one would find him for a long long time. Chasers lets just rethink where we would want to go to die alone and be peaceful and happy…Let’s put ourselves in Forrest’s shoes and rethink things once AGAIN!!! Mediate on it and relax with visions of clues and places dancing in our heads. That is what I am going to do in my spare time during the holidays while it is cold and snowy outside. Think, Think, and Think some more….. Lets drink some coffee and have a piece of pie and delve into this mystery quest like a redneck treasure hunter would do!!! I am Ms Girl and coming from the South want to break the true code wide open and walk right up to it myself. Think simple and follow the clues given to us they are there we should just take them as they are and THINK LIKE MR. FENN. God keep us all safe and warm this HOLIDAY Season. As Always continue the Chase……

    • Hey there Ms girl…I like your thinking here…It just might be a Redneck that does crack the poem…I’m a Southern boy from TN myself….Say you want to “break the true code wide open”, EH?…But what if there is no “code”?…Want to “THINK LIKE MR. FENN” do you?…It would be easier to attempt to simply understand him and “listen good” to what he says…

      It isn’t quite that simple…He said getting started was the hardest part but it got easier after that…Believe him!…IMO you should believe him anytime or anywhere he has stated something is or is not!…Since he stated “all the information you need to locate the treasure is in the poem”, then it is in there!…He just told all of us that the location is in the poem, understand?…But he hid it!…

      He reiterated this explicitly in TFTW when he said “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.”…This is his dare, this is his challenge to us…Come find him!…But you must find him in the poem first!…You won’t need the map or GE until then…

      IMO he has told us how to solve the poem for this location and this also is in the poem…The instructions are there if read correctly…He has tricked all of us with words…He has redirected everyone’s focus to the wrong words by the skill he used to craft the lines of the poem…There are no “codes”, “ciphers”, or “drones” as he stated, but he did use another method to hide the location in the poem…This is what must be found first…

      Everything I have stated above is from one simple line of his poem…Line 3 – “I can keep my secret where”…IMO every word here is a metaphor…If you can properly interpret this one line you may begin to understand the man and his method…He is one sly ol’ son, but this Redneck has struck his trail and I believe he’ll be treed come spring…

      Keep chasing and THINK! THINK! THINK!…

      And to all…HAVE A GREAT HOLIDAY SEASON AND A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS!

      samsmith

        • Hey there spallies!…How ya doin”?…I think a lot of searchers have forgotten the trickster they are dealing with in Forrest Fenn…

          Hey, this a man who has spent his life convincing the “upper crusty” that an Elmer De Hory forgery of an old master is a good investment at nearly 10 grand a pop!!…

          He’s a salesman and a master of tricky language…I can fully appreciate why it took him 15 years to get the poem just right…Figuring him out is a real task…Have fun with it!!…

          • Samsmith, I am doing great thanks for asking. Just pondering a new theory I have as to why it took him 15 years to write the poem…:)

    • Hey C, was it you who told me about Lindsey Sterling’s DA YouTube video? I watched it today…very good. I think I like Dragon Age because men are men and women are both women and kick ass warriors. Choices you make affect the destiny of those closest to you, as well as your own. And fantasy worlds with dragons and nugs and evil to defeat are just awesome. 🙂

      • ya i did, awesome wasnt it? i love her music and videos, and the fact shes a geek too like me makes her even more awesome.

  8. Does the poem take anybody to Manby in any way? I do not mean by just guessing, I mean you actually get his name from the poem from Fenn’s instructions. ANYONE?

    • Sorry, don’t get a person’s name at all…Only a locale and definitely not a hot spring either…No water anywhere near… 🙂

    • Many have looked around Manby Hot Springs and others have looked at the old Manby Hacienda in Taos. Still others have looked at Black Rock or Stagecoach Springs. All these places have a connection to Manby of course and John Dunn.

      There is a connection between Forrest and Taos…Taos and Manby…Manby and Forrest..

      There are two books about Manby’s life…that I can recommend:
      To Possess the Land: A Biography of Arthur Rochford Manby by Frank Waters
      and
      Headless in Taos: The Dark Fated Tale of Arthur Rochford Manby by James Peters
      Both are available from Amazon..one is even available as a Kindle book and you can read excerpts from one of them on-line.

      Finally…I looked into Manby on one of my searches and had a “one of a kind” experience while in the room where his decapitated body was found. It is in the “Dal’s Adventures” section of this blog:
      https://dalneitzel.com/2012/07/08/losing-your-head-in-taos/

      Manby was a classic old style western entrepreneur. His greed got the better of him and to this day many ranchers around Taos and east turn their heads and spit when they say his name. He made life miserable for a lot of people, outright killed others and the mess he made is still being cleaned up. Much of it never will be corrected.

      If you want to find Manby he is still in Taos and his hacienda is still there…but be careful what you ask for…

    • Arthur Manby was a scoundrel. He was greedy and used any means possible to gain more wealth. That’s how the stories go, anyway. I think I heard something about Forrest writing a book about him, because many people don’t know the real story (I can’t verify that 100%–I read it on this blog, but I don’t remember when or exactly what was written, and don’t have time this morning to search).
      People deduce that Manby went to Hell. However, if there is more to the story, and considering all the Roman Catholic references by Forrest, maybe Manby didn’t go to Hell, or Heaven, but somewhere else.

      • Speaking of boys this reminds me of the little boy in Scrapbook 64 who did a whole report on Forrest for a school project. I’ve seen a lot of beautiful things during this search but I remember when I read that it brought a tear to my eye. I think it’s the people not the things or even the places that are really important in this chase… imho I have to go back up and look up that SB…

  9. When I first read the poem, then the book, the chapters that stood out the most to me were: gypsy magic, Me in the middle and The learning curve. In the poem I was stuck on the seemingly “improper” use of the second “And” in the first quatrain, and where warm waters halt. I’ve developed my own understanding for all these except gypsy magic. What am I missing here?

    • Oh Lordy! I guess I need to go buy the book… I bought the second book as it seemed to be a better value…:) Plus I thought if I read it backwards maybe I might catch something… I like to read things backwards it’s an interesting perspective…:)

      • Make sure to read all of the VIEW EXCERPT links from Fenn’s abandoned website oldsantafetr…

        Back in 2013, while awaiting my copy of TTOTC ( the printing was on back order for weeks) I scoured every bit of info from his website.

  10. I give this information for all to ponder. It is not in my solution, but maybe it will help some other searcher in theirs.

    Here is a possible solution to “As I have gone alone in there”.

    “As I have”…… so remove the “I”…. and it makes …… Ash ave.

    “gone alone in there” ……remove the “g” in gone and “al” in alone, and then rearrange there to ….three. Now you have: One one three (113) Ash ave.

    The left over letters in that line with a little imagination the “I” in first person used as a small “l”, and “g, al, in”, and the first letter of the next line “A” arranges to, Gallina, maybe Gallina, NM (new and old, Mexico)

    So you get………… 113 Ash Ave., Gallina, NM

    What do you think? Good luck.

    Ritt

    • Gallina is also an Order of a certain type of bird as well as an alternative name in astronomy. Both of which ash loosely applies. 113 would fit more in the latter though.

    • So hear me all and listen good;
      So “he” are “me”= some a l l and l is TEN go odd:

      a+l+l+l=10, a=7,l=1, could be a=1, l=3 but when you get into it, the only answer is a=7,l=1. This way, you’re not messing with the poem, just doing what’s instructed.

    • canyon (n.)
      “narrow valley between cliffs,” 1834, from Mexican Spanish cañon, extended sense of Spanish cañon “a pipe, tube; deep hollow, gorge,” augmentative of cano “a tube,” from Latin canna “reed” (see cane (n.)). But earlier spelling callon (1560s) might suggest a source in calle “street.”

  11. Some of you know that my solve involves drawing lines and I did point to a couple of instances where Forrest tells us just that.

    Since he oddly mentioned not long ago the “great circle route” from Santa Fe to San Antonio, here is another comment to ponder over:

    “Look at the big picture, there are no shortcuts” – this sounds like an odd statement as well. What does it mean?

    To me it simply means: “look at the map, there are no great-circles drawn”… so better get to it 😛

    I mentioned that the second line I draw is such: I put in below HOB and from there it’s NPFTM, and the end of the line is draw ever nigh until I reach a creek that runs very close to “no meek place”… and here is my clue for the night 🙂

    No place for the meek is where Lucifer resides… well, at least where he gets his mail 🙂

      • This May Help You
        Golden Spiral
        In mathematics, the polar coordinate system is a two-dimensional coordinate system in which each point on a plane is determined by a distance from a fixed point and an angle from a fixed direction. Usually water is the center location.

        The fixed point (analogous to the origin of a Cartesian system) is called the pole, and the ray from the pole in the fixed direction is the polar axis. The distance from the pole is called the radial coordinate or radius, and the angle is the angular coordinate, polar angle.

        The Tool Used to draw A Polar Coordinate ,
        A planimeter, also known as a platometer, is a measuring instrument used to determine the area of an arbitrary two-dimensional shape, and it will draw the area to the figures you have figured out , or the dimension.
        Which is directly connected to Fibonacci Spiral .Or The Golden Spiral .
        This tool will draw the area on the map that you set it on . But, you must still Have the starting point.
        Good Luck

      • Hey mindy- are you on Facebook? I’d like to send you a link/picture that I can’t post here (no pics) I think you posted a link awhile back but I can’t seem to find it. I hope you might find it useful as I too have a tendency to fixate on bright shiny things.

    • @ {}…the Phantom:

      “No place for the meek is where Lucifer resides… well, at least where he gets his mail 🙂 ”

      LOL!!…..AKA-the Blaze…..depending upon conditions, he might need to meet the postman in the “middle” !! 🙂 :)……..loco 🙂

    • And the treasure resides just SW of the blaze. Your giving out quite a bit of info here mr. You don’t fool me I know who you really are. There is only one person that could know this stuff and not collect the treasure. My mind is spinning in circles. What color is the blaze? Green or Yellow or is that the circle.

    • As many have already done, I have been to the “Devil’s Mailbox” in Cinamarron Canyon. Perhaps it is there, but I could not find it. I also looked around the “Old Man” just down the road.

  12. I have always liked the song by Merle Haggard

    If we make it through December. And Silver Wings 🙂

    Just 6 months away till June is here 🙂

  13. Phantom

    It will be a race for you and I 🙂
    I have my big circle already drawn out.

    Remember the song by the Judd’s

    I know where I’m going don’t you wanna come to 🙂 !!!!!!!

  14. Well if we call this treasure hunt a chase or a race I wonder who wins? My money is on the turtle and not the Hare.

    • If ya can’t figure out what the “3 mil.” actually stands for, I have no worries at all.

  15. You will be surprised.

    After 1.5 years of the chase and four searches, I feel I have come a long way from when I thought this puzzle was just a simple matter of finding clever matches to the 9 clues. I while back, I was thinking about a few things (FF encourages us to think) and some facts perked my attention when I thought about FF planning this puzzle.

    There were two major considerations that I feel have bearing on this solution:
    1) How did FF account for all his friends and family not to find the chest?
    2) How did he account for all the locals who live near the chest secret spot?

    I thought that if anyone had an advantage it would be someone from those two scenarios. So what could it be that keeps them at bey? Then is dawned on me that to be successful with this search and still have the “what took me so long?” response to the answer, he would need to incorporate a surprise.

    Most searchers fit in one of two categories:
    1) The rookie know it all – you know the one that comes onto the blogs, just found out about the thrill of the chase and feels he/she has developed the solution in only a few days because they were given the only puzzle solving DNA in the inventory when God was creating people over the past few decades, and scoffs at the veterans that failed before them; then they go on to produce a solution very similar to the ones before him/her and then disappear into oblivion.

    2) Searchers who evolve their solutions to ever more imaginative creations (WWWH =continental divide, tears, snow flakes, clouds, Mars,steam engines), when they realize the straight forward ones didn’t work.

    I believe the one who solves then poem will fit into a third category:
    One who understands Fenn but understands the limitations he was under in creating this chase. One who will not let their personal bias lead them. One who solves the clues and lets the clues lead them to the chest. The one who does that:
    will be surprised by the answer;
    will understand what Mr. Fenn’s secret is and will understand why so many were led astray;
    will understand the meaning of “it is not who you are but who they think you are that matters”;
    will understand why FF designed it so it can’t be solved on the first attempt;
    they will truly understand solving this poem is an evolution that takes failure and the ability to adapt and over come that failure; and
    they will understand what Mr. Fenn means by “People will be surprised when they find out where it is.”

    The Wolf

      • I did it once with my son (and wife) but all I found was a stash of bongs. I thought that we needed a safer search plan as fears of running into the local drug cartel was enough for us.

    • Well Wolf you said a lot… This poem is more than just the common straightforwards. The way of approaching the solution is not just reading the poem, but how you read it. You are correct when stating… Fenn had limitations he needed to work around.

      This IMO is why the answer to US history was No, as well as other answers to similar Q&A’s. Folks IMO don’t give enough credit to the way the poem was written, designed and those 3 factors you mentioned. A quote comes to mind ” I thought of everything”. Should be no outside influence to the solve. IMO

    • Oh, I forgot to mention one thing… those in category 1, always deny they are in category 1… until they fail, or as I like to call it – “learn”
      The Wolf

      • That’s funny, but I wonder, if I say I am not in category 1, is it because I am not or am I in denial?

    • http://youtu.be/tNR877AHJAc

      Wolf is HOWLing today! Of course wolves love winter hunting.

      I’ve failed perfectly 9 times, humbly slinking back to the drawing board with tail between my legs each time. Have I Evolved enough to find the treasure?

      I’m leaving to visit an ill family member and not able to hunt through blog hints until next week. PLEASE Save the best hints until next week!! I’ll bring you all warmth from the valley of the sun.

      • 42 – sorry to hear about the ill family member Godspeed to them. I have made exactly 5 trips with no failures. Each building on the prior with more KNOWLEDGE.My confidence has never been shaken in the spot. Safe travels enjoy the sun.

      • 42 – sorry to hear about the ill family member Godspeed to them. I have made exactly 5 trips with no failures. Each building on the prior with more KNOWLEDGE.My confidence has never been shaken in the spot. Safe travels enjoy the sun.

        • Amy, thanks so much for your kindness. It’s my ‘other mother’ and she could use prayers. Will most likely be the last time I see her before we both dance on top of heaven’s starry floors, and I love her dearly. I hope to check in on comments when she’s sleeping, because it’s a nice diversion.

          • 42

            Bless her heart that’s so sweet of u to be there for her. Yes one day u will see her again. Be strong your in my prayers 🙂

          • Ed, I miss my grandmothers too. this is my husbands mom and I’ve always been close to her. Says she can hear the angels singing, calling her home.
            (Sorry all, I realize this isn’t clue discussion)

      • 42,
        There is only 5 more day tip the full moon … then the real howling begins! lol

        Best wishes to you and your ill family member. Take care and we will put everything on simmer until you return.

        The Wolf

    • Wolf, I think you have made some legitimate and interesting observations. I believe you have left off one category of searcher. The searchers who have evolved into a “Mystic Blowhard”. These gurus bless us with fatuous indecipherable script to impress and mystify us with their genius. In between comments I envision them hovering in the lotus position in front of a mirror glowing with enlightenment.

      I did found it interesting when there was very little discussion on Dal’s WWWH. He provided a specific spot and logical reasoning.

      • Where did the comment go about the cowbell? Was there a link? I saw it on my phone earlier but now I can’t find it? We can always use more cowbell…:) I guess I will hop over to utube and see if I can find it.

      • Actually Goofy those people you describe fit into any of the categories – it is just a personality trait, similar to those who chastise those for their opinions.

        As far as Dal’s WWWH, I felt there was about as much discussion on the topic as the blog would allow. Halogether had a very good response that I believe summed it up fairly. I did ask a question about it, of which I did not receive a response. It is hard to know where the edges are if you don’t go out and look, but if you did you would find a more detailed discussion on the other blogs about Dal’s WWWH. We have all had the rules beat into us here and generally take the safe route – no need to bite the hands that feed you.

        Have a great evening!

        The Wolf

  16. (raises hand) third category right here. I feel I’ve solved the poem, and when the snow flood waters subside in June, I plan on completing the journey. But I will make the following promises to each of you….

    -I promise not to scoff at all of you veteran searchers.
    -I promise that if my solution is wrong, then I will not disappear into oblivion.
    -I promise that if my solution is wrong, that I will not hate any of you for it.
    -I promise if I find the treasure, that I will still see the same people in each of you that I saw when I started.
    My hope? I hope that if I find the treasure this summer, none of you will hate me for it.

    And maybe…just maybe, I can help change the way of thinking in this world by those who try to categorize other human beings into neat cardboard boxes. Each of us is far greater than that, and much more deserving.

    Will

  17. Seeker,
    Thank you for mentioning the – ” I thought of everything” quote. This is a very important factoid when considering ownership issues and the legality of where you find it. Many have focused on hunting in the National Parks (it is illegal)… so one has to consider land and legal ownership since Mr. Fenn has thought of everything!

    That is where I feel (I like to use that word to keep Loco happy) the surprise comes into play. Think about it … all land is owned by someone. One has to figure out how it is possible to find something and keep it legally … if you understand what Mr. Fenn meant by “I tried to think of everything”.
    The Wolf

    • So hear me all and listen good, your effort will be worth the cold…

      that’s the Last you Will hear from Me on the matter at hand!

      That and there is no sense in debating information not known, that could be in the chest.

      Let me know when you have that chapter done… I’ll send you my new e-mail…

      • LOL!! New e-mail??
        No wonder my reply to your message, explaining that you were joking about FF being mistaken, came back undeliverable. I tried to send it from 3 different accounts.

        Heck, seeker, I thought you had just blocked me….but you got a whole new mail account??

        Didn’t know you were that thin-skinned!! 🙂 … And, after all we been through together.!!! Oh well, guess I know where I stand.

        Good luck to Ya, seeker!! (and take care of Old Yeller!! 🙂 )

        • Loco..loco,

          I think that’s the first time I was ever called ‘thin skinned’ I did lose a couple pounds…

          New computer too, Old one went to cyber heaven, actually I’m using it for target practice.

          Changed over to gmail…it works with the smart phone. I don’t know why they call it a phone… it’s just a small computer that happens to make calls.

          I’ll send ya the new address if ya like, I have a long list of folks that I needed to contact…I’m up to, the wife, the son, oh right Sam too, that’s cuz he said I’d get a shiny coin when he retrieves the chest.

          • LOL!! Just nipping at your heels a little bit, Seeker. Kinda like I do with The Wolf 🙂 .

            Your call on the email….I was just letting you know I tried to reply. I might give you shiny coin when “I” retrieve the chest, but it won’t be because you sent me an address. 🙂

  18. What if you find it and just keep quiet and get it out to go through it early in the morning s when no one is around but you and your treasure sounds creepy but what if?? And by by far I’m a 4 time failure and not crazy yet after 3 years of ttotc but I love it everyone in my family thinks I’m crazy because it’s my only conversations a touch of fenningitis the only cure is more cow bell

    • Yes, it can be a lonely feeling when some think you are a bit off, been there a few times lately. Not a warm fuzzy place.

    • lynn — “not crazy yet after 3 years of ttotc but I love it everyone in my family thinks I’m crazy because it’s my only conversations a touch of fenningitis the only cure is more cow bell”

      Thanks, I got a good laugh out of that.

  19. OK, everyone has their opinion on a place they feel will be ‘special’ to Fenn. Mostly, they base it on their own ideas of places Fenn has shared in TTOTC. But what if he hasn’t shared his true ‘special’ place?

    “I can keep my secret where”, is very telling. It says that he’s not going to tell anyone. You have to figure that out for yourselves.

    What we all have learned from comments Fenn has shared, is that he likes to go off somewhere secluded, where there is the least amount of civilization present. Not somewhere within places like Yellowstone Park. Civilization still exists there.

    Fenn’s choices are numerous, as long as he feels they are ‘his’. To most everyone else, they would be places ‘they’ feel he wouldn’t go.

    He doesn’t say “As I had gone alone”, he says “As I have gone alone”. Think about that.

    • I don’t think he reveals the exact spot in any of his writings. What he is revealing, IMO, are words that connect to other words. And not conventional word associations. Word associations that he has created. Like where warm waters halt. It could mean the end of Spring, specifically June. June was his sister’s name. Everyone assumes WWWH has to do with literal water. I’m not so sure…

        • “The chest is wet by now” ff

          There is a reason why “Flywater” is followed by “Gold and More”.

          I think that “water” and “treasure chest” are well connected in his mind, and that there is plenty of water around the spot.

          I mentioned “wishing wells” and money thrown in.
          That’s exactly what he did, and his secret fishing hole is right there, in very close proximity to the chest.

          There is something quite telling in that chapter 😉

          • Great I will re-read flywater 🙂

            But yet I still have my own solve. I think Deep 🙂 I don’t know if that’s good or bad 🙂

    • GG…’I can keep my secret where’ is a lot more revealing than you surmise…It isn’t a literal statement by FF, but a straight forward metaphor word by word…As is most of the entire first stanza…All with a singular objective…I won’t state that objective…

      Just what is his secret?…What’s the purpose of the poem in the first place?…Why does ‘start at the beginning’ translate into starting with the first word of the second stanza?…Who says?…

      You cannot discount the first stanza…This is where the poem begins and it is where the search must begin as well…FF said it was ‘difficult but not impossible’…

      And secluded is a good description…In that you are correct…

      IMO of course… 🙂

      • Samsmith…WHY ARE YOU WAITING if you already know?? They make snowmobiles and snowshovels and snowshoes…If you were “confident” in your solution you would be INSANE to wait

      • Sam I have a better deal for you. I’ll bet you 10k you don’t know where Forrest put his treasure. All you have to put up is 500$. The only thing I ask is a picture. How about we swap emails.

        • Maggie,

          Why not offer to fund the trip… if found, you get 10K, if not, you get your funding money back.

          Seems fair to me…IF, you were serious about slapping up 10k on a bet, that is.

          Just a thought / suggestion for both parties.

          Other wise, I don’t see it’s anyone’s business why another has not gone to search…

          Oh right…IMO, Just saying, food for thought.

      • You guys should give Sam a break. If he knows then good for him. If not, then you shouldn’t goad him into rushing out there in the snow to find something he might possibly miss because of weather.

        Not all of us in this world have 10,000 dollars just sitting around waiting for some noble quest to come along. A lot of people have families to provide for, and with Christmas right here…it would be reckless abandonment for a father and husband to throw 1,000 -2,000 away to go look around in possibly 8 inches of snow.

          • Well I live out on east coast, and a roundtrip ticket out of the blue would cost me near 800 bucks, then rental car…probably 400 2days, and hotel and food nother 100 so bout 1300. I just said 2,000 cause he could live farther like NY or Florida, than where I’m at in VA.

  20. Before anyone heads out again they may wanna lookup Highway Interdiction, and possibly “stingray”. Just read that something like 19 police depts have stingray so far. Only suggesting you may not want to share your 9 clue solution over your smart phone. I personally have nothing to hide. When I was pulled over last April, and the Dude searched thru my whole suv I wasn’t aware what their new tactics were.

    Okay let’s assume someone does find the TC. How do you get it home?
    I would find the closest safe-deposit box, shove it in there & then Go in Peace

    • Ha Yup… That would probably be how it would go for me if I found the chest. I would get pulled over because I couldn’t see straight to drive and then the cop would take the chest from me because I didn’t look well off enough to have such a beautiful thing. So should we to dress up a bit now to go hunting??? Or maybe like theycallme said find a safe deposit box super fast.

    • @Theycallme9clues – sounds like you are planning for a win! In that case, if you are the lucky-duck, plan ahead. Never store your solution on a device that is auto-connected to the internet or share it electronically – easy to get burned. If you are placing it in a safety deposit box near that location, get on a list at a bank for the larger size box or 2 small ones. Most banks don’t have many deposit boxes and they’re small. If you are driving Don’t drive through Colorado! With pot legalized, cops search vehicles thoroughly exiting Colorado to other states. Finally, if you have enough money in a bank account, you could hire a private plane through Net Jet and wheel on your chest in a simple suitcase. Safety & peace will be directly related to the finder’s ability to stay quiet and remain anonymous. (Not sure how that works when you pay the IRS their due).

      • Highway Interdiction has been in the paper lately, cops/ state police have the right, since 911, to lawfully seize large sums of cash. They will pull anyone over, coerce, search, intimidate, detain etc.

        I got stopped in Missouri, they especially go after out-of state people.

        Their dept gets to keep 80%. If you don’t have a bank receipt, paperwork, or a note from the Pope, they can and will take your money, nobody is even being charged with a crime.

        Then it’s up to the individual to prove, in court, it was lawfully earned. A private charter would be ideal, sure cant trust TSA.

    • Since it was hard enough to find the first time, I would just leave it there. Or, cover it up a little more. Or, move it to a place away from the dead body. Make a note of the GPS, take a picture of the nearest landmark. Yet be sure that it will be in a place I can access quickly. Never trust a bank.

    • If I was to guess at this point in my search, I would bet that Forrest or a relative has the chest hidden on their own land. In my research, people with the name Fenn own large parcels of land in two of the four search states, maybe more. The land may be managed by BLM, but is privately owned. It’s like those people that found the jar with the nearly pristine gold coins under a tree on their own property. They got to keep it. If I was a visitor or guest on their property, and I found it, and they said I could keep it, then I imagine that would be the case.
      Disclaimer: I haven’t researched any of the legalities of finding the chest on different kinds of land. But if Forrest thought of everything, I believe he has a way to make sure the searcher gets to keep what they find.
      Which also leads me to believe it’s not in a National Park, but on BLM land. Forrest has said that BLM land is managed by them, but owned by the people. That eliminates a great deal of the search area. All IMO, of course.

      • I’m not too sure of that Mindy. No one can force your to tell them WHERE you found it if you did, therefore it is yours, since the true owner “gives you the title” to it. So as long as you don’t tell anyone where you got it… it protects your right to keep it, and it protects Forrest’s secret place.

        Here’s a fun fact no one is thinking about. Lie where you found it. If someone asks, you found it in San Lazaro Ruins on Fenn’s property. Then there is no question about its ownership. I think that’s one of the reasons Forrest says “just take the chest and go in peace” (peace and quiet). Letting you know to get it ..get out… and keep it quiet.

        • Iron Will,
          This has been discussed in great length before and Mindy has a very valid point. At naive first glance your suggestion, which is not unique sounds simple. I suggest anyone who thinks this simple plan would work, watch the movie “A simple plan.” The truth always comes out and now you have to deal with the legal fact you are involved in a cover up; good luck staying out of jail let alone keeping the treasure. You also forgot to consider one other very important fact, there is one other person who knows the truth and I am sure he has some say in anyone’s attempts to highjack his treasure hunt. San Lazaro is south of Santa Fe so those simple words automatically incriminate anyone who attempts such a foolish plan.

          That leaves your only option is to keep it secret and he has said that the finder won’t be able to do that. The only thing one could do is melt all that gold down and sell it on the black market (all gold sales are tracked) at a fraction of its real value. Do you think that $50K is worth that considering the true value of the treasure if kept in tact.

          Bottom line, if it is in a NP you have to understand how he accounted for the legalities and good luck with that one – but there is possibly one loophole so I have not totally ruled it out, but I believe that is just one element of the surprise.

          The Wolf

        • “You don’t have to prove anything, just keep your mouth closed,” Fenn said of the eagle feathers, according to the affidavit. Law-enforcement officers have “got to prove you obtained it illegally, and I’ve never bought or sold anything that was illegal.”

          http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/31054

          What would Fenn do?

          • Jane,
            I guess that plan comes down to one’s own intestinal fortitude. Those with integrity will not be able to go down the path of deceit.

            So IMHO, it comes down to whether you think his other words “so I tried to think of everything” involves a test of personal integrity. To me that answer is simple but I can understand, why others will differ.
            The Wolf

          • You should probably stop with it all right there wolf. Calling out Forrest’s integrity, especially here, is not only uncool… it’s uncalled for. Everyone deceives people at some point in their lives, and it in no way means they do not have integrity.

          • Iron Will,
            I suggest you reread my post again without your personal bias. You will see that I am saying that Forrest HAS UTMOST INTEGRITY as I have stated many times in the past. He was a member of the military where integrity in ingrained in you from the beginning. Please read some of my previous post before jumping to conclusions and putting words in my mouth.

            My point to you is, Forrest didn’t hide it in a place where the finder would be put in a situation of having to break the law. Think Think Think!
            The Wolf

          • —-Those with integrity will not be able to go down the path of deceit.—-

            Did I put those words in your mouth?
            Did Forrest deceive Texas A&M?
            Did Forrest deceive his father at bedtime with the gypsies?
            Did Forrest deceive Frosty with the Totem Cafe Pie incident?
            Did Forrest deceive Miss Ford when he snuck out the fire escape?

            I suggest you stop worrying about being some grand visionary to all of us “simple peasants” , and start thinking about what it is you say BEFORE you say it.

      • Mindy-
        As you are well aware land titles are easily researched but even today it takes trips to many county courthouses where data is not yet available on-line. Over the past four years I have searched land titles in the Fenn family in six states. I have also looked extensively into the Fenn family tree, and friends of Fenn. Since no one knows where it is but him it seems unlikely to me that he had a conversation with anyone about using their land as a depository for his chest. Further, it seems much more likely to me that Forrest discovered his “special place” while fishing on public land, while alone and while exploring an area near his fishing spot.

        I am an advocate of his special place being on public land. I see no real obstacle to it being on any form of land, private or the many flavors of public land or even trust lands. From what I have observed, wild public land is much less likely to be developed a century or more into the future than most private lands. Trust lands are really too recently adopted to know what happens over the hump of history in this country.

        If I were hiding something today that I wanted to remain undisturbed for several hundred years in the USA my first choice would be public land defined as either remote areas of a National Park or roadless wilderness in the National Forest. National parks get developed with roads and lodges and campgrounds except in remote areas. Roadless wilderness is likely to remain as such for a long time. And I noted that when Forrest talked about the threats to the chest he mentioned natures threats like flooding and fires but never mentioned development. He’s a smart guy. I think the chest sits on “protected” land where development such as road building, housing or damming is as unlikely as possible…nothing is for certain but chances of disturbance can be lessened by playing the hand you are dealt as wisely as possible.

        As he noted when he showed us photos of his dressing room and bath. He likes to get away from people. He needs a place to hide once in a while to avoid the commotion and noise of an active family. He needs a retreat, and I think this place we are looking for is/was his retreat for many years. He may have taken a close friend there but those friends are long gone and can keep his secret. When he hid the chest he knew he would not be going back there again. He has told us as much.

        The likelihood of keeping the chest is up to the finder, not the government. If a person wants to secret the chest out of the place they find it, this can certainly be done. After-all, Forrest secreted it in there. Removing it should be no more difficult. And, has already been noted by others recently, even if you want to declare that you have it, you certainly don’t have to say where you found it…or tell the truth.

        I’m not really much of a planner, but if I were to trip over the chest I would remove it to Esmerelda without anyone knowing. I would then drive to Santa Fe and share my find with Forrest so he could tell me as much as possible about each piece. Provenance makes everything more important. Then I would enlist his help in calling a halt to the chase and the disposition of the chest and artifacts.

        If Forrest were not around when I found the chest I would remove the chest to Esmerelda. Drive to a place where I could buy a newspaper, place the newspaper next to the chest and take several photographs that convincingly showed the chest and the paper together and other clear evidence of it’s date of discovery as needed. I would then send those images with a note of explanation to the Fenn family and the media with an announcement that the chest had been found so that the chase could be halted.

        After consultation and deliberation there would be additional evidence and explanations, possibly anonymously, possibly through an attorney, possibly on my own…depending on my sensibilities and the publics desire for more information at the time. But throughout it all, I would be the one making decisions. I would be the one to decide if I were going to “formally” find the chest or “secretly” find the chest. I would be the one who determines how many other folks would know. It would never be beyond my control.

        • Hi Dal,

          Great thoughts as always I like the scenario you said here:
          “I’m not really much of a planner, but if I were to trip over the chest I would remove it to Esmerelda without anyone knowing. I would then drive to Santa Fe and share my find with Forrest so he could tell me as much as possible about each piece. Provenance makes everything more important. Then I would enlist his help in calling a halt to the chase and the disposition of the chest and artifacts.”

          Since you take such great pictures you could have a picture taken of you with each artifact a “treasure selfie…:)” Then as you said let Forrest decide what to do with the chest and it’s contents. I don’t see any need for so much control on your end it’s Forrests’ Chest he should be the one to decide. And if God forbid he can’t then his Family… imho

        • Wow, Dal,
          You have thought this through much more thoroughly than I have and I’m inclined to think you’re right.
          I will need to study my map a little harder.
          Thank you for this useful info!

        • That Richard guy from 1st season of Survior learned the hard way. Uncle Sam is going to want his cut, whether you keep or not

          • I don’t usually say much, but I will say this:

            It will be nearly impossible to realize the full monetary value of the chest without getting caught. Forrest has already documented some of the more high-profile items. Once the jig is up – boy will the IRS want their cut – PLUS penalties for being a jerk and not telling them in the first place. Keep in mind that this could also include prison time.

            Even if you could sell it without anyone finding out, how do you explain your sudden windfall of cash? Unless you then bury your money in the backyard and never spend it, the chances of doing so unnoticed will be quite great.

            IMHO – The person who finds it would best be suited by coming clean – but in a very calculated manner. There is a lot to be made from paid interviews, TV shows, and the book detailing how you found it.

            And there is my two cents for today.

        • I agree Dal. The chest would most likely be secreted in a place that would not be in danger of being developed. I’m not so sure about it being in a very remote place as Forrest has said people were near the chest and didn’t know the significance of where they were.

          I too would take the chest to Forrest and ask him about all the items in the chest and ask his advice, but in the end the treasure is yours (or hopefully mine!) to dispose of as you wish but his knowledge of the pieces and recommendations would be most valuable. If, heaven forbid, Forrest were no longer with us, I would hope that whoever finds the chest would let the other searchers know so they wouldn’t waste any more time or money searching for it.

          • I don’t think it’s “in the cards” for forrest to leave us anytime soon, and I pray for exactly that! I think he’s too young inside, and too stubborn! Anyway, I agree with this- I, too, would love to learn everything about what is secreted in there, give forrest back whatever he wants- and to just have the opportunity to hear him tell more stories. These are treasures in themselves…indeed!

          • It may be a case of the supposed item Forrest references in one of his comments on Jenny’s site. Where it’s a special item.

            What if it is a document that explains how “one will go in peace”.

        • If I find it, I’m hiding it in my underwear drawer. 🙂 That way I can see it every day & when I finally kick off, whoever has the rather unpleasant task of sorting my unmentionables will get a bonus.

          Clinger

  21. I can’t seem to find the poem section in this blog Dal, so………..

    Oh my,
    I can’t get it though I try
    A clue to decipher a clue
    But which one is true?
    A decoy or a lure
    Are those thoughts pure,
    Or meant for them self
    Thinking of wealth?
    Is it a lead
    Or a word to mis feed?
    How come I feel
    Like a fish on a reel
    My head is spinning
    I thought I was winning
    How does he know it’s still there
    As only FF is aware
    Does he have a drone
    Controlled from his throne
    Until now it’s been a search
    F squared watching from his perch
    For how many years
    and thousands of tears
    Me thinks now the race is on
    Do hurry before it’s all gone!

    Lynn 🙂

  22. {} Phantom

    I concur – NPFTM is Lucifer’s mailing address!

    Nancy – Happy Holidaze!!

    • Glad to hear that Nancy… just remember… the place is rather big, but the actual clue that refers to it is very specific and VERY precise positioned, with coordinates that can be determined beforehand if you know where to look 🙂

  23. Just casting a thought out there…do you think it’s so straight forward as finding a chest and packing it out of the woods?

    IMO there are more twists and turns than that involved. That seems far to straight forward for a man like Forrest Fenn, our eclectic and enigmatic inspiration. I see this as a alternative ending scenario…

    Not to diminish searching as I am a searcher myself, but perhaps there are some other factors involved such as “character checking” we are not aware of in this “I thought of everything” orchestra of events.

    Weigh in as you wish…Happy Dec 1st…

    • Hi 23Kachinas,
      you bring unique perspective to the discussion. (And a nice new avatar)

      I like two points which sound like Forrest:
      1. a unique and surprise ending. it may even be different than his original plan. People change and grow. I see personal growth between his two memoirs – subtle differences one notices about character in a good way. Pretty amazing that in his 80’s he still wants to learn and grow personally. his ideas shared on the blog are vibrant and relevant. A game of Monopoly ends different each time. 2.character check. Interesting idea which would weigh in if the treasure can be stewarded as antiquities to be shared publicly, rather than selling off all for cash. Gee, I hope he doesn’t do a credit check. For the first time in 30 years I was late on bills because I spent too much time sleuthing before my search this summer. I finally jumped back into my old life with both feet. My husbands glad I’m back 🙂 Anyone else get distracted now and then?

      • Monopoly has rules. Forrest likes to make his own rules and change them as needed. Who doesn’t do that really?

        • One interesting Monopoly connection which I feel may have some usefulness:
          In Monopoly, the one with the most money wins.
          Forrest has said that whoever dies with more than $50 is a failure.

          To me, that sounds like personal growth. 🙂

          • Exactly, he is not into follow strict rules. He is comfortable making his own rules. Shouldn’t we all make our own rules?

            Life is in the questions and I have none of the answers, just more questions…

    • ” I give you title to the gold” means just that. Finders keepers..I don’t think Forrest will be doing any ‘character checks’…

    • Hi 23Kachinas,

      I think you missed two steps– identify the puzzle; solve the puzzle… and then… find the treasure, pack it out. The twists and/or irony could be in the puzzle, and not in the mission.

  24. I have got a solve, hope ya’ll like it…

    #1 hint of riches new and old= In the woods around Treasure Mountain in Colorado(stories of old treasure hunts gone bad here and new treasure hunts with Fenn’s)……
    #2 Begin it WWWH= Penny hot springs, colorado
    #3 take it in the canyon down, not far but too far to walk= drive down to marble Colorado
    #4 put it below the home of brown= Crystal Mill Colorado
    #5 no place for the meek= where indians killed French gold hunters
    #6 there’ll be no paddle up your creek= no creek goes up Treasure mountain from that angle..
    #7 just heavy loads and water high= heavy loads refer to your gear for hiking up a mountain and water high is the lakes on top of the mountain…
    #8 be worth the cold= well you started out taking a dip in penny hot springs(I mean whose not going to take a dip there when you start there), being on top of the mountain would make you cold
    #9 Brave and in the wood= you have to be brave because others who searched for treasure here got killed by indians(look up the story about the french soldiers who went through Taos New Mexico to find gold for Napoleon, its pretty nice read) and I believe the chest is located in the woods below 10,000 ft elevation…..

      • Oh heck, if finesse is needed I better not bring my net over and scoop it out. I worked a long time chewing those yucca leaves and making them into that net. Sheesh… who wrote these rules?

        • Spallies, my tracing abilities were pale compared to my older brother who frequently wrote “get out of class” notes with the correct ‘traced’ signature. He was very popular in high school. I was not brave and in the wood in that regard. 🙂

      • 23 – I have lousy recall, and forget the name of movies watched yesterday. I kept 2 scrap books from my childhood, and have an apropo totc drawing titled “A Merry Chase” with a fox hiding behind a tree spying on forrest animals.

      • DP – perhaps in the same symbolic way I think you are a DeeP thinker. Actually, I have absolutely no idea who Phantom or {} are. They certainly keep the mystery lively! Just having a bit of fun with my ‘ghost rider’ or phantom coloring page.

  25. Spallies, thank you for linking me to the Fandango treasure hunt at Jenny’s site. It looks like another fun puzzle to ponder. I haven’t had time to peruse her site much but I may turn on the heating blanket tonight and read fandango under the covers ((;

    [Sorry Forrest and Dal. I promise to stay on topic with totc next time].

  26. Actually, I have not revisited Fandango since I found the TTOTC just made me think of it when he said fox… Sorry to get off topic. I too am heading to the sandman early tonight It’s been a long Monday… May tomorrow bring a better day….

  27. Read the Book–Over and Over, and study the Man who hid the Treasure…This will lead you to the Chest.

  28. Anyone know if you can go on seasonally “closed” forest roads with an ATV instead of a car? in other words, is that considered okay, or is it still closed to ATV traffic?

  29. Dal,

    I want you to know that I am here, I maintain vigilence checking almost every day what comes up on the latest posts. I thank you as always for your insifgthful comments and especially the scrap book entries.
    Sadly, the absence of constructive deciphering still permeates the multitude of searchers who are not following Forrest directives in the TTOTC. I think the most important starting point(s) are the design defiencies. As I initially searched where I believed the WWWH location is, it became apparant to me that if one could understand and recognize those cleverly hidden obscurities, with the help of TTOTC, the path moving forward became more clear. I still think the “Pantless Pirate was right on track” but we all have our limitations.
    Based on this, I believe I have put together clues in sequence, as Forrest made necessary. I believe going backward is just as important as going forward.
    10 trips I have made into the wilderness using those assumed design defiencies as the truth.
    In my last three trips I was quite impressed with the locations that I was led, all as a result of the design defiencies of the “Black Paintings” which I think tell the truth of the location of the TC. I offer these details in hopes that it will aid a few that are open thinkers. Yes I could be mistaken, but thus far I feel I am on the right track.

    One more thought. I think there is No need to physically look now. I am quite confident no one will find the treasure till at least Spring and that will not be easy either. Perhaps early summer. Thinking and review, revisiting, recognizing, and when the snow melts hit the trails.
    I have been on the worst of the trails ( good trails and search areas) in the dead of winter, quite important to know for those new searchers.

    One more thing. I envy you and the treasure hunting you did in south America.
    I too have done such many years ago. I sure Lomelchingd2ve that Forrest.

    Have a great Holiday!

    Doug the Demoman

      • Many times on this blog, people have suggested how to get around avoiding taxes and such. I have believed that the safest place to find the chest, is probably on conservancy land. Outside the bounds of government land. Since it is land protected for the enjoyment of people, it would be a ideal spot to bury it. Any disagreement?

        • A conservancy linked in trust to Forrest which backs up to a wilderness with a view.

          Dal’s advice is always sound and I appreciate that he considers what Forrest wishes first.

        • your treasure chest may as well be full of dirt, like any type of income, you must report it in that year. The IRS doesn’t mess around, why take chances. The CIA probably won’t water board you for the location

          • You must have overlooked one of Fenn’s comments, where he said that when he hid the chest, he had thought of everything. Supposing he had a solution for the ‘tax’ problem and that was the surprise that awaits the one who opens the chest for the first time. No one knows for sure if this is the case, but Fenn’s smart enough to know this as anyone here. So, it is unlikely he has overlooked such an important issue.

          • I beg to differ… I hope to believe our taxes go to support our troops and Forrest would be in favor of that… Whether that is actually the case I cannot know. But I know I would not mind paying my taxes knowing that at one point in time my taxes went to support someone like Forrest who served us all without us knowing…

        • German I keep my mind open to the legal definition of land that Forrest hid his chest on…but private Trust lands and Conservancy lands have a couple elements that make them less likely for Forrest to hide his chest on than “public lands”in my mind.

          Both trust and conservancy are sometimes public but often “private” lands…they may be held by a non-profit but they are still private…this means that they typically pay property taxes on said property. The tax burden is somewhat lowered in most States for the “public good” that the land is held in…be it for natural preservation, watershed enhancement, education…or whatever…however in many cases there is a tax burden of some sort applied to the land…and public or private conservancy and trust lands can have their status removed by court order…and often do when the organization that formed the trust or conservancy can no longer afford to pay the taxes or when that organization is no longer viable.
          My point is that trust and conservancy lands often do not stand the test of time. Once the original owners of the land see it as a tax burden and decide to abandon it, that land is treated just like any other property. It can be sold and developed.
          All this is state dependent and differing laws apply in different situations but in my mind private conservancy land and private trust land are far less likely to remain undeveloped over long periods of time than National Park or National Monument remote areas and National Forest wilderness lands.

          • Your points are all valid, as I have done a considerable amount of research on that point as well. However, holding on to the land under conservancy takes it out of circulations for about 200 years (according to what I’ve read). Given that fact and the likely hood that Forrest was aware of that as well, if the land in question is so remote, to almost be hidden in the normal sense, it still would work as a location for Fenn’s treasure for a considerable amount of time. After all, I believe that no one, not even Fenn would be able to determine how long that would be. So his comment regarding 100, 1000, or a millennium is all subjective.

            Also, considering development, the area will dictate that, not mankind. Ask yourself this question. Would the future see developments running down the side of a mountain? How are they going to get around landslides and mud slides. Look what happened here in Washington. Such a tragedy.

          • german-
            That’s why I am always alone when I am searching…everyone else thinks I must be nuts to even consider my place as Forrest’s special place 🙂

    • Doug, if “black paintings” = drawings in the book… I agree a little. Don’t agree on any reversing backwards though.

      • James

        Yes James, paintings in the book.

        Forrest eludes to this. The paintings tell a story jointly with the TTOTC that if deciphered work in conjunction with geographical landmarks. In my mind I have solved much if not almost all of this pathway. I would add that the pictures are quite enigmatic as you know, and often I find myself dreaming about them. Suddenly I awaken and find a remarkable revelation to a picture and a landmark that I either found or stumbled upon in forest maps, on the trail, or on Google Earth.

        It is Forrest that shows the way in this fashion. Then I do the field work already 10 times in some very trying conditions. Admittedly I have not found the Treasure yet. Perhaps the better explanation is “Reverse or Going Back” in realizing how to go go forward. I suppose by now I have confused you with my methods but I have routinely gleaned potential clues from the pictures by this zig zagging back and forth through the book and the trails. The pictures are not necessarily in order but there is an order to the learning curve.

        Think about this one.
        One picture not in the book is George Washington’s picture on the dollar bill that Forrest so cleverly hinted about the reverse image. I am very amazed that no one
        seems to place much value on that. I think it was that hint and the Pant less Pirate that sent me on my merry way.

        • Hi Doug M. Can you tell me where you referenced ff commenting on the reversed image of George Washington on the dollar bill?

  30. Has anyone been able to ask FF any update questions re: if anyone has correctly identified the “blaze”? or along the lines of if anyone has been any closer to the chest, either physically or figuratively?

  31. Forrest Fenn-

    Spring is a time to relax and think. This morning I sat in my plastic folding chair beside our pond, sipping Grapette, while I threw floating fish-food pellets at a big largemouth bass.
    ————————————————————–
    With snow coming on the situation, this changes of course; in which case, if I were the searcher, I’d stay very quiet until spring.f

    I leave you with these two paradoxical statements. What’s different about this searcher? He/she doesn’t have to relax in the spring they can just get the treasure 🙂

    • Ed,

      Why not “With snow coming on the situation, this changes of course; in which case, if I were the searcher who found the chest, I’d stay very quiet until spring.f”

      • I don’t think he said “searcher who found the chest” I think he just said searcher? I have to go back and look at Jenny’s site again to confirm…

        • Your both missing the point or I’m not understanding you. If we should be relaxing and thinking in spring and this searcher doesn’t have to do that then the question is why.

        • spallies,

          You’re correct, but what if he’s sending a message to a searcher? Sometimes, things are not what they appear to be and we know how Forrest likes to play.

      • Well GG this searcher has solved the 7th clue and is very close to the treasure so they don’t need to wait.

    • I don’t see the confusion, the statements were months apart. one was referencing to the search / searchers…the other is a man enjoying the spring weather…But I guess we all read into everything to mean something.
      I wonder what fenn is secretly telling me in code? Maybe it’s the “folding chair” hmmmm.

      • Dave,

        I don’t think he did, because, remember he had people looking in more states at one time and pointing to a specific river would have changed to focus tp Colorado.

      • Forrest Fenn posted a statement about Pam in the comments section one time. Does anyone remember where that is? Something along the lines of the treasure being right where he left it and searchers needing to relax.

  32. Curious who thinks they have solved the poem. One way to see if someone is close. In the “take as fact” section, it is taken as a fact that the treasure is more than 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe. While that is a fact, the statement used to calculate that is not referring to that.“The Treasure chest full of gold and precious jewels is more than 66,000 links north of Santa Fe.” This statement has nothing to do with distance. Question, why?
    You don’t have to give up any info of your solve, just answer why that statement has nothing to do with distance…

      • Michael D – good to see your smiling
        T-shirt! Of course…he’s talking about a golf silly man! Now, do you think it’s buried in a sand trap with pirates booty? If so, I need a metal detector with my sand wedge. Hmm, It would have to be below the courses hob outhouse. Will you go with me in the spring. I’m afraid of digging in the dark. Fishing in the dark is ok though – the moon shines light on the water. Are you game? I promise not to club you when we chase the sand away and see the gold! Ha!

      • its all about the alpha/numeric values. if you have them correct it makes a picture. Also, the way he uses numbers, 66,000= 6+6+0+0+0=12=1+2=3, the chest etc… is more than 3 links, and we all know it’s north of santa fe. the picture= a disc, attached to 3 links of chain, supporting a chest. It’s how the chest is hidden. It is suspended from a wooden disc by 3 links of chain.
        Primary alpha/numeric values = 80. it’s a small hint on how to decipher the numbers. Kind of like, who is Addison Doty? I know 66,000 links = 8.25 miles, if that is what you’re talking about, in this case, he’s talking about the apparatus that supports the chest.

        • p.s.- Addison Doty= “y” to “d” no “s” add “i” = diy, do it yourself= Forrest Fenn. photographer = Forrest Fenn…

          • @Jason, the line”From there it’s no place for the meek” solve from left to right than read backwards for the “key”.

    • Charlie,

      I like the way Fenn uses the “more than” in his comments. That really says nothing.

    • 100 links = 1 chain
      66,000 links = 660 chains (66,000 ÷ 100)
      1 chain = 66 feet
      660 chains = 43560 feet (660 x 66) = 8.25 miles
      Here is Fenn’s complete comment:
      Since Richard mentioned the olden days lets harken to 1620 when universal land measures first became law in England and America. As you rode your horse into town you had to pass 80 telephone poles in order to reach a mile because they were 1 chain apart, or 66 feet. And each chain had 100 links, if you wanted to break it down further. Road rights-of-way also were 1 chain wide. And 80 square chains made a square mile, or 640 acres – and that was 1 section of land.
      But if you’d rather count fence posts you had to pass 320 in order to reach a mile because they were a rod apart, or 16.5 feet. And since everyone knew that an acre was 10 square chains (43,560 square feet) it was easy to tell how many acres were in your neighbor’s farm.
      Some aspects of those measures are still in use today in the horse racing business because a furlong is 10 chains in length, or 660 feet. You should feel smarter now because that’s so easy.
      If you want to apply those important figures into the thrill of the chase I will give you an additional clue. The Treasure chest full of gold and precious jewels is more than 66,000 links north of Santa Fe.

      Seems straightforwards to me…unless i need to know who his Neighbor is and the location of the farm? It all looks as to involve distance to me anyways.

        • Charlie,
          I like that you are looking at the information the way you are, But
          Ok, re- thinking…lets think a bit more simple then using coded messages from After the fact statements and use the information in the poem itself. 9 sentence…6 stanzas… 4 liners per stanza… total of 25 capital letters.

          As well as the number of words in each stanza.

          The numbers of words in each line…hence the reason for some words spellings. and the understanding of hoB is used for.

          You want to find the blaze? dwell on those figures for a while. you maybe surprised on what comes out of them.

          Oh right… IMO, just saying, no coded messages needed.

          • blaze= lazy 2. Not using coded messages, HOB has nothing to do with color. Actually, that line has more to do with landscape more than anything. Not trying to be rude seeker, just saying… I never said it’s not true about the measurement, just pointing out other way to look at it. Only because of this picture the alpha/numeric values give. Something like that must have been put there on purpose. I asked why that statement would be not true. Answering it would have told me that someone has the letter values, and be one more step closer. That is all. If you really want to get into it deeper about stanzas, sentences, capital letters, whatever, no problem. Have you got your nine clues? The ones that make up your latitude/longitude? The 9 clues also give up the exact elevation…Dwell on that for awhile. No coded message there, just addition.

          • Charlie,

            I didn’t take anything you said to be rude. You gave a point of view, I followed with my point of view. Was a good exchange of ideas.

            Don’t get me wrong, as you can tell I think there is math involve in the solution to finding the chest. I just don’t see solvable information in the after the fact comments and statements…That’s just me. If I took anything out of the 66,000 links comment, is that there is math in the poem to be solve. Could be in the structure / format of the poem…could be use of words…or even a mathematical word problem.

            With that said… I don’t think it’s modern or conventional math. More in lines with the time period mentioned as well as how trails where blazed time distances. just thinking alone the lines of Russel Osbourne.

          • Seeker, I agree with that. After the fact comments are just little hints, maybe backup info but nothing more. It’s just there are so many. Maybe it’s just his way of having a little fun. As far as the math in the poem, I find that it’s not difficult. Basic.

      • Well Seeker, it seems that a “link” can also be defined as “a torch of pitch and tow for lighting the way in dark streets……….”

        So in that context, 66,000 links north of Santa Fe is probably something that those ancient people as well as the Spanish would know about……….

        Lots of torches made from pitch and tow back then………

        Jus sayin!!!!!

        • And of course a “linkboy” is one who carried a flaming torch to light the way for pedestrians at night in London back in the day……..

          Remember those great idiom discussions we use to have??

          Well, the idiom “cannot hold a candle to _____” comes from the lowly linkboy……… For if you cannot hold a candle to ______, that means you were not even good enough to be his linkboy…….

          Ha! Now who’s the linkboy?!?!

          • Ah! lets harken to the olden days…good stuff on idioms. Unfortunately that was not the issue in this case…

            Do you remember “in the wood”? How silly we was back then, when we thought it was trees. I sometimes miss the good ole’ days… when men were men and women were women… well except when it concerned Nora. How is the old cross dresser these days? lol

            Any time ya like to upload some discussions let me know, I was always impressed with your input and research. to say the least… you gave me some interesting thoughts to think about. That’s one of the reasons I do a flyby every now and then…

          • Seeker,

            You are one of the best!

            Ideas continue to flow out of your mind like the waters out of Fontana di Trevi!!

            Alas, you’ve moved into the home of Dal………… As Indira Ghandi once said, “Forgiveness is a virtue of the brave”…….. So forgive the transgressions of those who have offended you……. and grace us with your spoken presence every once-in-a-while over there……

            Lest I abandon ship too!

      • Obviously, back in the 1620 when universal land measures first became law in England and America, as you rode your horse into town you had to pass 80 telephone poles because the mobile phones were not invented yet. They came a little later in 1732, when you rode your horse into town and had to pass 2 cellular towers in order to reach a mile 🙂

        • What will it take to gain attention? Repetition.
          I bet Paul Revere had one and it just had a dead battery.

  33. Well, considering the Dal Logic (don’t ever tell where). now I want to find it more than ever. Only a fool would offer up where, and once the chest is removed, it’s like it was never there. It will always be speculative at best, no right answer, and we may never know

    How much $ would a news syndicate have to cough up for the real story, knowing there could be some repurcussions ?

    is it worth another million?

  34. I presented that video, not just because it was cute, but because it shows just how words can have so many meanings, but be the same thing.

  35. Not thinking buried if you read the pirate story Deb provided a link to. Will be hidden in another way.

  36. Certainly the movie, “Meeks Cutoff” has been down played here before, wasn’t it released after the chase began? The ‘lost wagon train of 1845’ left enough written notes for the retelling. Quote here from the director seems appropriate….

    “Meek was perceived in different ways by different people, but definitely was thought of as someone who didn’t know what he was doing by pretty much everyone,” Reichardt says
    Meek’s own 14-page autobiography, she explains, wasn’t much help: “Ten pages is this long-winded joke, and then he’s just like, ‘I led the first wagon train through Oregon territory. Completely successful.’

    • Thanks for the mentioning this movie. I didn’t know one was out there. I read Terrible Trail: the Meek cutoff, 1845, when gathering info about the blue bucket find. Stephen Meek may have gotten a bit of a bum rap for his part in this tragedy. It seems he was in this area years before as a member of a trapping party. He recollected an abundance of water and shorelines of lush vegetation. The late summer of 1845 was the exact opposite- dry lake beds and limited forage.

  37. “I wish I could be like the cool kids, ’cause all the cool kids, they seem to get it…

    She sees them walking in a straight line, that’s not really her style.
    And they all got the same heartbeat, but hers is falling behind.
    Nothing in this world could ever bring them down.
    Yeah, they’re invincible, and she’s just in the background.

    She sees them talking with a big smile, but they haven’t got a clue…
    They’re driving fast cars, but they don’t know where they’re going.
    In the fast lane, living life without knowing.”

    Sorta reminds me of Goofy’s category number 1 and where I sit, somewhere between 2, 3, and Mars.

  38. I want to present a situation, but before you comment on it I will present some facts. Now these facts are legitimate, not some off the wall ideas.

    Fact# 1. Salt water feels warmer than fresh water. A person swimming in the ocean with a temperature of 70 degrees would feel warmer than a person swimming in fresh water with a temperature of 70 degrees. Salt water is denser and acts somewhat as an insulator.

    Fact# 2. In the Air Force, as in the Marines, there is a course that servicemen must go through. It’s called Survival School by the Air Force and in the Marines, it’s simply part of basic training called “Drown Proofing. Not sure about the Army, but I know that the Navy also offers such a course. It is taught, so that if there is ever an occasion where one finds himself lost at sea, from a down aircraft or sunken ship, he knows how to stay afloat.

    Now to the point. Forrest has flown many missions in his career in the Air Force and would be quite knowledgeable regarding these facts.

    I leave you with this…”Begin it where warm water halts.”

    • GG,
      Sorry, there is no salt water in the Rockies, and if there were, it’s not where warm waters halt. Maybe not off he wall, …but it’s off something. lol.

        • Ritt, don’t too quickly discount German’s salt water comments. If you do a bit of searching I believe you’ll find that Forrest cares a great deal about all waters, and how their quality affects our earth for future generations. He supports restoration of riparian habitat from streams to the rivers and rivers to the ocean. The chest may not be at the Mississippi delta or Florida but knowledge of what f cares about environmentaly imo will help determine location.

          • GG – danke Colonel Hogan. My research helped determinie how far was too far from the camp latrines (hob) to dig my escape tunnel (canyon down). Just when I thought I saw gold Sgt. Schulz foiled my plan. LeBeau is making chocolates to brown nose Comandant Klink (f clinks on foot with gold). I hear the krauts leave the gate locks off in July, so that’s the best time to go for it! Too many episodes of Hogans Heros as a kid!

            http://youtu.be/6pJrETLqFOI

          • 🙂 the way I figure…let em laugh at my expense, it’s worth the cost. Laughter is a necessity in life!

          • I O. D. on it everyday! Especially when my youngest daughter and I get together. Laughter to tears and tummy aches!

          • Spallies,

            No problem, I’m so high, nothing could pull me down. By “high”, I mean “on life”, not the other one… LOL

          • So far (from my original post mentioned above) I haven’t heard anyone dispute the possibility of finding the chest on conservancy land and claiming ownership. Without government interference of course.

          • GG, I’ve thought of conservancy lands before and I’m still interested in that idea. I’m not at all sure of the legal angles pertaining to finding the treasure chest on those kinds of land. Does it depend on which state the lands are in?

          • germanguy,

            “I haven’t heard anyone dispute the possibility of finding the chest on conservancy land and claiming ownership. Without government interference of course.”

            Ahhhhhhhh your full of it…..

            Feel better? LOL

            Can’t argue the point, except like I said before…longevity. But after a certain time has past in this hunt, that will not matter either.

    • I like your thinking on a grand scale. But there lies a problem that doesn’t narrow down the search location, GG I like reading some of your post and you are somewhat right about it but even if it’s a salt river of some sort the underline problem is how does it halt, stop cold turkey.

      • William,

        Thanks for your reply. The answer to your question is simple. How are you defining “halt”?

        • Stop or come to a abrupt halt in movement. I know there are more meanings to halt but none really work with water. I could be wrong which MOST OF THE TIME I AM but i’m open to ideas

          • Hmmmm…. I like your logic but I am still partial to halt/dot… Dot = a small round mark or spot. Just kidding I have no idea what I am talking about at this point…:)

          • William,

            Try this one on for size, “a suspension of movement or activity, typically a temporary one”.

          • GG that is a good one and would fit a Dam nicely, but Forrest ruled out dams. Lakes with out dams could make a nice case, usually fed by a river or creek with a steam for a exit. Levee could fit this meaning of dam without it being a structure, so are there any levees in the rockies

          • Obviously I never mentioned dams, but further understanding of how levees are ‘naturally’ formed, will help.

          • Quake Lake was formed by a natural land slide, the picture of Forrests dad sitting on the bumper of his car with the big pile of rocks next to him could represent the landslide.

            From the slide the local fisherman call that the 50 mile riffle, could also represent when Forrest dad went 50 miles out of his way.

            All this leads to 3 Forks which could mean when Forrest talked about when Peggy and him always comes to the fork in the road.

            GG i’m just throwing ideas around

          • What about a train halt. There are some with interesting names that refer to “warm water”.

        • Will. sometimes a different word or wording helps.

          example: to plug. or to lay to rest. just to show a couple different ideas.

          Not unlike the line ” there’ll be no paddle up your creek”… meaning a difficult situation or in a bind or between a rock and a hard place.
          Words and phrase with a bit of a twist may make them work better.

          Just a thought

          • Seeker it’s hard for to get use to your avatar without the yellow thing but I agree but if Forrest say he played no games writing the poem then that phrase is exactly what it is, No paddle up your creek which to me means other methods up the creek, what if the creek is a vertical arises and that is the clue that you look for a steep creek up a hill or mountain

          • William – no paddle up your creek could mean 1. you don’t go up the creek at all; stay at the confluence; or 2. you go down the creek.

          • Will,

            If the words and phrases all meant “exactly” what they appear to be…Then finding WWWH will be nothing more than a guess.

            That is a lot of guesses in the Rockies. A single searcher would have to spend a life time searching in hopes of stumbling on the correct one.

            There’s a difference between ” Not Playing Games” and being very clever.

            You may remember this… What game is played in most schools, and if you become a pro you can make a lot of money playing it? I’ll even give a hint…the game starts with a ” T ”

            The point is, most will try and guess the sports that the name starts with a T… But the Game itself starts with a T—Golf.

            What Back and white and red all over?
            We know it’s a news paper…
            I think some of the same principles and fundamental ideas are used in the poem

            Yep, No more yellow thingy. Maybe I need to put up my Seeker pic. to represent myself in the TOTC.

          • Seeker,
            Excellent observation and to support this concept, the name on the envelope in Forrest recent scrapbook is “Puceet”, which if you use the mirror image hint he is strongly indicating, then that spells “Teecup” which is spelled “tee” as in golf, not “tea” as in the drink.
            The Wolf

      • Halt is also an adjective:

        halt (adj.)
        “lame,” in Old English lemphalt “limping,” from Proto-Germanic *haltaz (cognates: Old Saxon, Old Frisian halt, Old Norse haltr, Old High German halz, Gothic halts “lame”), from PIE *keld-, from root *kel- “to strike, cut,” with derivatives meaning “something broken or cut off” (cognates: Russian koldyka “lame,” Greek kolobos “broken, curtailed”). The noun meaning “one who limps; the lame collectively” is from c.1200.

        • Funny thing how it comes from words that sound like “cold” when spoken, eh? I wonder if there’s other word anomalies like that in lines of the poem…

          • I agree, but what if it’s moving and at some point halting? Then you would have 2 conditions occurring at about the same time. It would then be a verb as well as a noun. Think.

          • William,

            Don’t get bogged down by Fenn’s use of the English language. He has no rules when it comes to his use of words. I’ve already found where he uses certain words to have more than one meanin.

          • William,

            Just to clarify, only proper nouns are capitalized. “halt” is not a name of a person, place or thing.

          • By that logic brown would be just a color then. Forrest himself said he wasn’t playing any games when he wrote the poem so it would seem logical to assume that Brown is a noun and halt would be a verb

          • LOL. William, you started out pretty good there for a while, but I think you’re missing my point. Okay, I explained the use of proper names being capitalized. “Forrest himself said he wasn’t playing any games when he wrote the poem.” True, he wasn’t. I don’t see where there is any games here in what I’m explaining. So, you must agree that ‘halt’ can be both a noun and a verb. And , they can both be use with a lower case ‘h’.

            Now you bring “Brown” into the picture. That is a ‘proper’ noun and does need to had an upper case ‘B’. Is ‘halt’ the name of a person, place or thing? No.

        • Worth looking into when I have some spare time…. I think I need to go give my cat a bath though…

    • german-
      you said:
      “I leave you with this…”Begin it where warm water halts.””

      I’m not sure why you said that-
      The correct quote from the poem is
      Begin it where warm waters halt,
      I believe what is plural and what is singular in that line is useful to remember when trying to find the waters that halt.

  39. Just found that the Colorado River has salt in it and it’s becoming a problem. I believe he said he cares for the environment. Has he ever spoken of the Colorado River?

  40. I’m doing a good amount of research in Colorado due to one tell he had on an interview. The reporter asked if he would take that state out and he was stern he would not. Heard a few other good thoughts about the state I have read as well. So that fact just stuck out for me.

  41. He also gave another hint in the book that might point to Colorado. He said Indecision is the key to flexibility when talking about the treasure. So if you DON’T want to be flexible (narrowing your focus) perhaps the key is in “decision”. Just a thought 😛

      • I’ll say this one but, then there will be no more talk from me on the subject till june.

        “decision” anagrams into “inside CO”

        • 12/2/14 summary:
          Read backward
          anagram
          numerals
          A lot of sinking ships
          a lot of loose lips
          ante is high
          poker room busy.
          Have a good night/morning.

        • There are a lot of hints and theories that can indicated Colorado and it very well may be there since it is the only state he doesn’t really mention in the book.

          However, anagramming a partial word (‘decision’ from ‘indecision’) from the book is a bit of a stretch IMO.

          Forrest said:
          “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location …”

          The point being: no cyphers and codes

          Even if you ignored his warning the biggest danger of anagrams is one could anagram almost any word, partial word or set of words to generate almost anything.

          The poem is believed by many to be the master or trump card. For example:
          “With my treasures bold” , treasures may be plural to hint that the other treasure is in The Treasure State of Montana.

          Or the repeated references to buffalos could be Wyoming which has the buffalo on the state flag.

          The examples are infinite when you consider state birds such as the meadow lark, rocks, gems (Turquoise (as in bracelet) = NM).

          I believe there exists hints indicating which state it is difficult to find one that will stand alone to support one or the other, thus it will likely require several in combination to raise the probability.

          I will whole heartedly that Iron Will has focused on the right line in the book “indecision is the key to flexibility”, but the importance of it in my opinion is much different.

          The Wolf

          • Hi Wolf,
            Always good to hear from you. I agree with you. It’s what Forrest doesn’t say that really matters. Searchers need to focus on the subjects he chooses not to discuss. Please drop me a line when you get the chance. You have my contact info.

          • Pam!
            Great to see you back! I really missed your comments and look forward to hearing from you again. Will keep in touch!
            The Wolf

  42. GO may have a point with the salt also. The rockies were at one time under a shallow sea, hence the coal. Wyoming is one of the largest coal producers.

    • Jdiggins, Wyoming ia also the largest producer of Uranium. It requires a great amount of water to cool during production. Those waters are halted in catch ponds and remain permanently warmed & polluted from chemical changes. Ur waters leach into aquifers and raise the temp of streams and rivers. Ask German and Michael D to weigh in – they are experts. The perimeter of YNP has numerous uranium mines. In my opinion all water not frozen is warm.

      1.wwh at glaciers
      2. Warm and waters halt in the dictionary with the word WATT or hydroelectric power
      3. HALT is the standard signage used where you are exposed to Uranium.
      4. WISE is the organization which exposes the blaze of uranium world wide
      5. wwh in Forrests stories at his cabin without electricity or running warm water.
      6. wwh in a basin of land without drainage.

  43. Hi, 42. That’s a great drawing. I made a similar drawing from memory back in third grade for my mom as a Mother’s Day present. The teacher had all our drawings laminated and we gave them as gifts with a small calendar attached. My drawing was just a horse standing alone basking in the warmth of the sun. I discovered later that it was a “painted Mustang”. I colored it a chestnut brown color with black spots. I’ve never seen a horse like that in real life. I don’t know why I chose those colors.
    I think I did a good job for a seven-year-old.

    Every time someone mentions The Phantom I think of this song.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q3LKLBv860

    http://www.metrolyrics.com/phantom-living-lyrics-the-fixx.html

    • Jamie,
      I found it VERY useful. I’m wondering now if it might relate in some way to the date stamps in TTOTC. I don’t know; I haven’t checked yet, but it’s definitely worth looking into.
      Who knows? Maybe STAR is the word that is key. Or maybe KEY is the word that is key. Lol.

  44. Imo, the poem can lead you precisely to the chest. But I am not so sure how easy it would be without actually having boots on the ground too. GE is one thing, but on the ground it’s a whole nother! And, how skilled would one need be with map and compass? Gps aren’t always reliable.
    More of the learning curve…
    🙂

    • I hear that Forrest said there is no tools needed but I haven’t heard him say it, but if no tools needed the GPS, compass or shovel wouldn’t do no good

      • William,

        You got it. I hope this means you’re beginning to see the picture now. Just a “good map”. Forrest says that when you have solved the poem, you will ‘go’ with confidence. That doesn’t tell me I have to go there first (boots on the ground).

        • One can argue a map is a tool, but lets face it, we need that type of information to help those not familiar with the area of search. So as for the GPS… it’s, in simple terms, a map of sorts.

          There is a difference between being prepared and using a backhoe to find the chest.

      • I remember it as “no special equipment is required.” That was a long time ago, so I don’t remember where he said that.
        Different from no tools at all.

        If you’re heading into the woods with a bedroll, you better have a shovel for the fire and for the bathroom. The campsite signs all have shovels on them.
        I think of special equipment as things like detectors, ropes, ice climbing gear, etc.

    • If you know where you are going the thrill will get you there.
      On my first search,I thought I got it and could do it but I was wrong . The creek was flooding and so was the river and I wasn’t as brave as I thought I was to cross to the other side. There was not a soul in site and all I was thinking is what if something happened to me . No one would ever know where I am.
      I am satisfied with my search and hope to try the same location again. This time I know I will be brave because I know where I’m going.
      After some more research on my location I hope it’s there for the taking…
      In my opinion , it is best to take a trip to your solve even if you don’t have the whole solve. This enables you to see what type of environment you have to deal with when you are fully ready to search…..but than again it could burn a hole in my pocket.

  45. Fenn said to Stephan the pirate that no tools are needed. I don’t think he was speaking a map or gps. I believe he would have meant a shovel, pick, hammer, etc. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe he said a detailed map or a certain type of map and his book are good resources.

    • You have a link to Fenn saying nothing more than a map or compass is needed? IMO for most people a great deal more is needed. A flashlight for starters.

  46. Maybe the “good map” is a great circle map. If you notice, it forms a rainbow arc when you plot two points, dividing one half into a shady area, one half in a sunny area (the yin/yang, mirror image thing).

      • Truth or Consequences, New Mexico….what did it used to be called? As FF said its a specific “place”.

          • That’s Kinda Cool… Things were different back in the day…

            Originally named Hot Springs, the city changed its name to Truth or Consequences, the title of a popular NBC Radio program. In 1950, Ralph Edwards, the host of the radio quiz show Truth or Consequences, announced that he would air the program from the first town that renamed itself after the show; Hot Springs won the honor. Edwards visited the town during the first weekend of May for the next 50 years. This event was called “Fiesta” and included a beauty contest, a parade, and a stage show. The city still celebrates Fiesta each year during the first weekend of May. The parade generally features area celebrities such as the Hatch Chile Queen. Fiesta also features a dance in Ralph Edwards Park.[citation needed]

          • This has been discussed before GG…… He said the chest is north of Santa fe but he never said the starting point was.

    • Literally? Lol. I remember this science experiment from third grade. Cup of ice water and cup of hot water…measure till they stop. Remeber?
      It halted at room temperature.
      “Room Temperature”
      Room= a space
      Temperature= 1) a degree of heat
      2) being tempered/in proper proportion
      Warm=a degree of heat from Greek ‘thermos’ (see temperature)
      Polis= a city; a space;enclosed space
      Warm water would ‘literally’ halt in Thermopolis.

      I don’t search there…just a having a flashback to being 8.
      🙂

        • I was just answering based on the request for a literal definition. But if it’s a cool spot I imagine that would also fit warm halting. Certainly the mercury in a thermometer would be heading down into its canyon….haha

      • Thermopolis works with my HoB. But so do a couple other places. I think I’m at the point where I have too much information and need to skim the dross from the gold. Still reading, over and over.
        I think I have found a reference to Skippy in the poem.

        • I remember spending an absurd amount of time on GE viewing the Thermopolis hill from all angles, trying to make it work. Looking down from the top of the 5000+ foot hilltop, there’s a small airport, golf course, and cemetery.

  47. DP check out the link to Stephan the pirate. Fenn sent him a funny poem reply back. It was tools he said weren’t needed.

    • Thanks Dave, I guess that leaves us to decide what is classified as gear, tools, or equipment. Or accoutrements…;)

    • JD

      I’m here I just read thoughts. I need to remain quite till spring 🙂 !!!!!

      Lol ha ha 🙂

      • “Every light in the house is on” 🙂 it’s never dark here 🙂

        My power is still on 🙂

          • Oh..we we hunting wabbits….
            🙂

            Anyone think there might be a shootout at the ok corral come spring? The way things are moving along…likely a group will trip over eachother…
            then what? Lol! 🙂

      • Hi Amy!
        Boy, yesterday is was chat city. Today e erroneous seems to have fallen off the face of the planet!
        Storming here in norcal, we need the rain! But like you…I can’t wait til spring!

        • I hear many searchers are waiting till spring, but I don’t understand the difference between searching in this season or that season. If all we need is the poem why wait till spring?

          • It’s too far to walk when there may be snow. Lot of miles and time to waste, not to mention travel dangers. Life is more important. But, if I lived closer….

          • Fenn doesn’t want people searching in the winter, because the rivers are frozen over (at least mine is… 🙂

            “Your effort will be worth the cold”.

            Summer is better, because it is a shorter time period to search.

            If you were Forrest and you said “I tried to think of everything” (or words to that effect), when would you hide it, if you wanted it to stay hidden for a long, long time?. During a long season or a short one.

          • “Fenn doesn’t want people searching in the winter, because the rivers are frozen over (at least mine is… :)”

            Using only the poem I would not be ruling out any season but would dress accordingly. Disclosure: I have never left my computer or the Bay Area in which I live.

            Just a thought: If the TC is hidden in a notch in a rocky cliff about 15 ft above ground it could take forever to climb and peer in each notch, however, if there were 10 feet of snow below the notch it would be much easier to examine all possible notches. Spring doesn’t sound so exclusive to me.

          • Because it’s to “Cold” out there.

            I like it HOT 🙂
            Although I complain about that to but who wants to Shiver and Freeze to death. Then if you are searching u are in a hurry to get back to the car, where it’s warm. 🙂

            She’ll be coming around the Mountain when she comes (toot toot)

            We’ll be singing Hallelujah when she comes ( toot toot)

            She’ll be carrying the chest of gold from the the Cold
            (Toot Toot)

            We’ll be giving Thanks to Forrest Fenn in his den
            Toot Toot
            Honk Honk
            Hee Haw

            Someone please add to this lets see what we can come up with 🙂
            Ha ha

          • Onecorgi,
            I’ve found through experience that searching when the temperature is below 33 F is difficult; a person’s fingers start to freeze, and it is difficult to shoot good photos (for later review).
            Geoff

          • Geoff,

            I agree that 33 degrees would be very uncomfortable. Yet, if one can go find it with confidence after solving the clues…… It would be more comfortable. One could leave the snow gear on and go get the prize.
            Thanks for your thoughts.

      • Amy, JD – me too. I plan to be quiet with my best info and post fun things. Do you think our intelligent discourse will be missed?

        Dal, How much “fluff” can I post before I’m sent “down” to the fluffier blogs in the canyon? At least you guys will be confused as to who She is! I am too 🙂

  48. Dave,

    Stephan the Pirate kept it simple. He used some simple logic following the dictates and stories that forrest left for us in the TTOTC. I miss the Pirates humor
    and I really thought he was getting it. But then his utter dispair after not finding the treasure did him in, getting so close to the truth and not cashing in on it. He gave up. I still credit the Pirate with showing me a significant path, even so far as mentioning a significant place that in my opinion was right on track.

    I on the other hand have continued the pursuit and to date have in no fashion been let down by those early revelations. I am following the learning curve as Forrerst required. I admit that in learning the curve it is much more detailed than I could have ever imagined. I think what astounds me the most is that Forrest assembled the search so profoundly in such a short time, and those paintings, after burying the chest.

    No one seems to get this and yes I could be mistaken, but I offer this possibility for you to ponder. George Washington’s Image on the dollar Bill. The reversed image in the final product from the engraving. To me it is one of the single most important clues in the TTOTC. But after finally figuring this one out, a whole bunch more make alot of sense, ( In my opinion) LOL.

    Good Luck.

    Doug

    • an old theory of mine, when i was using the verbs as directions… As i have (g)ONE (al)ONE… treasures bold, riches new and old… i studied the dollar bill.

  49. One way to look for Forrests trove is to start in Santa Fe and circle canyons at ever increasing distances for example less than 50 miles or 100 miles ect. If He hid it in one day leaving from his home and returning the same day how far would He drive?

    • P of 9:
      How far ff would drive? How about how far if he flew? I don’t recall ff saying round trip from “house” to treasure spot in the same day. Maybe I misunderstood but my thought was he started from his car and returned same day. Thoughts?

      • Notice I said look for not find 🙂 But really its as good a place to start as any.

    • How to we know if he had done it all in one afternoon from Santa Fe,NM. He could have been in West Yellowstone at that time .
      Did he say somewhere that he went out one afternoon from Santa Fe and hid the TC and I just missed it.

    • The statement was, he made two trip from the car to the hiding spot and it was done in an afternoon { paraphrasing }.

      There is no indication if he started the trip from home, a hotel, a campsite or NYC….nor where he went when he was done. No indication he was in any particular stated, what time of year, or even what year it was… IMO speculating will not narrow the search area but lead one to a false hope. But that’s just me.

  50. Am I the only one that thinks the treasure chest is in the Pecos Wilderness. I do not care if somebody finds the treasure chest with my help as long as I am the one giving it without somebody asking me questions how I got to that conclusion. There are people, like me ,who have seen the F’s on the Pecos Wilderness mountains. To me that is the permanent blaze. I may be wrong, but without cracking the poem open I am as right, or wrong as anybody out there. If what I am saying is right, then the home of Brown is Cleveland, NM close to Mora N.M. which is purple in Spanish. I believe there was a guy selling these clues for $99.00 but before he started doing that I had already come to that conclusion. The question is did Fenn actually have the strength to take the treasure close to the mountain top? Who dares to think he was able to do this? RC

    • Ritt, I’ve roamed the area quite a bit over the years. I’ve searched there a couple times. I haven’t been able to make all the clues line up. There are some clues that fit very well, but that can be said of many places.

      I know of an off road club and a couple horse clubs that search in that area. As far as I know they haven’t been successful. If anyone is going in there, New Mexico is rolling out a bunch of new regulations for 2014; be sure to read the rules before you go. Basically, the government doesn’t want you there. Have fun and put your lawyers number on speed dial.

    • RC,

      I do believe Forrest could have taken the treasure up there. He does make a comment about the treasure not being on the top of a mountain, but maybe close to the top. I personally haven’t researched that area, but I do believe NM to be the proper state.

      I’ve noted Mt. Baldy which Forrest alludes to with his comment about going bald & every time I hear Mora mentioned, it triggers a response in my head. I don’t know why, but I believe it is because as a kid I was an avid reader of Louis L’amour books and one of his titles was the “Mora Gunfighter”. Perhaps the word Mora triggers my love of those books.

      Many of his books had settings in and references to New Mexico & studying the chase has made me think of those once again, a pleasant and unexpected surprise for me.

    • Dal, I asked this on the ornament page but: should we include a padded envelope and a bit more postage for the arrowhead?

      • 42 i’ve spent years in the post office as a carrier and as a clerk behind the counter if you’re going to mail something like that it would require first class postage for a small parcel. I would not recommend anyone trying to mail an arrowhead in a letter or large envelope. Although you could put it in a large envelope but just make sure you fix enough postage for a small parcel and make sure it’s no flimsy envelope.

        • Jeese…Don’t give the names…addresses or anything else on those envelopes any thought…They are examples…illustrations…and I made them up without any help from Forrest…

          • WHAT!!! Now you tell me. I’ve been on the road since I figured out your clue.

            OK I see what you’re doing; you gave away too much and now you’re trying to walk it back.

            It is obvious what the clue is. I won’t give everything away, but start with the year the Montana Lemon Law was enacted. I can’t say anything else about what page numbers in the law are important. Clyde Park is WWWH, too far to walk is 1,721 links…….I nailed it this time.

          • Drat, I prefer cane sugar, looks like the clue is a lemon for me.

            OT, my in-laws have a lemon tree outside their apartment that has lemons bigger than my fist. I always pick one to go with our afternoon tea when visiting. Best lemons ever.

  51. Forrest,

    See everyone is a winner
    I can’t wait to receive an arrow head from you. How nice of you 🙂

    The Wise Owl 🙂

    • Yes, very generous! As many are well aware, it is clear the man is also known for his marketing skills. I love it! So cool.

  52. OT: Orion launching this morning just 30 minutes south of me. So powerful it’s supposed to rattle our windows even up here. Been delayed a couple times now–I hope it goes up!

    • I would love to see a launch. The closest I came was on my honeymoon, we were flying to Jacksonville and right before landing, the pilot came over the radio to announce we were being diverted because of a shuttle launch, and if we look out the window we might see it. I was able to get a picture of the exhaust trail as the shuttle came through the clouds in the distance.

    • Mindy,
      This is very exciting news, I witnessed the shuttle launch twice. Once from 20 miles west of Cape Canaveral at night and the exhaust plume left a rainbow coloured trail as it travelled from night to twighlight to day enroute to space and the next time was for the STS-134 Endevour’s last flight and the second last shuttle launch from as close as they would allow. It is pretty cool when you can feel the sound!

      I love space so much that I applied for a Masters in Space Science next year, crossing my fingers.

      Travel to space and other planets/moons is the ultimate in exploration, don’t you think?

      The Wolf

      • Wolf, they scrubbed launch until tomorrow.
        Space exploration is exciting. This mission is a precursor to an eventual manned trip to Mars. My son is hoping to go to Penn State to be a part of that monumental journey. 🙂

        • Mindy,
          Thanks I just heard that as well. Mars is exciting and of course fun to tie into this chase as well! Good luck to your son!
          The Wolf

    • With new technological advances popping up like weeds, the world of discovery under the seas , and in outer space, seem to be breaking new ground almost every day. All very exciting and fun to follow…

      • Spallies,
        I think we did, but it was faint. All my friends in Merritt Island said it was their “alarm clock” this morning. Doesn’t anyone wake up before 7:00 anymore (the launch was at 7:04)?

  53. Maybe tolerance is the ‘Key’ Fenn is alluding to. Indulgence & the Spice drawer, what’s all that about? Stumbled across Quakers (or Friends, as they refer to themselves)… Wikipedia style.
    “In the United States, the acronym SPICES is often used (Simplicity, Peace, Integrity, Community, Equality and Stewardship). Rocky Mountain Yearly Meeting Friends put their faith in action…”

    “However the dominant discourse of Protestantism] viewed the Quakers as a blasphemous challenge to social and political order, leading to official persecution in England and Wales under the Quaker Act 1662 and the Conventicle Act 1664.
    This was relaxed after the Declaration of INDULGENCE (1687–1688) and stopped under the Act of Toleration 1689.”

    Didn’t William Penn hatch the city of brotherly love?

    • Yes he did 9 clues….
      Philadelphia was a big area for the Quakers…and still is to some degree today…
      There are a lot of connections to Philadelphia throughout TTOTC…
      Would you like to hear of some that I have come up with?

        • ill try to remember them all Michael….
          1) First chapter in TTOTC there is a chapter regarding the book “Catcher in the Rye”….the school in that book is based on the authors time at Valley Forge Military Academy, located outside of Philadelphia in Wayne..near VF park..
          2) George Washington is mentioned in the book…He stayed at Valley Forge and was a major player in Philadelphia…
          3) FF mentions Benjamin Franklin in TTOTC and Franklin is Philadelphia own….
          4)There is a picture of the chest opened on this website and in the book I believe…. Look at the keyhole and the symbol surrounding it…it is the “keystone” symbol… Pennsylvania is the “keystone” state and that is the states symbol..
          5) FF mentions flying over Philadelphia and this was 1 of 2 moments that really changed his life….

          So that is all I can remember for now….

          *disclaimer* I am from Philadelphia so take that into account as I may be wishing that the chase involves my area….**

          What do you think Micheal? I saw on this blog that there is a “key word” and maybe the “key stone” is something to do with it??

  54. “As I have gone alone in there” = old 113 rd in Cleveland, NM. This road I’d the entrance into the Pecos Wilderness.

  55. just in case I was missed…..lol I’m back on the chase….I can see that I have some catching up to do……Alot has been added in two months…. I hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving…. good luck ya !

  56. Hey all,

    I have given considerable thought to the idea, the there is/was a “word that is key” or “key word”, however you want to call it, in the poem. I have concluded that there is. My thoughts are, the “key” is the name of the location (not the spot) of where the chest is located.

    Thinking about it, I asked myself, wouldn’t a key open the poem, so that all else put aside (with the exception of the final spot of the chest) it would bypass interpreting all the other clues in the poem. Thus, for the person who uncovers the key, the searcher would only need to solve for the final resting place of the chest.

    Ask yourself this… If you knew the location, wouldn’t that simplify things?

    • I have assumed that the key is just where to ‘start’ and then solve the clues which will be apparant as you go from one spot to the next. All on a map in my opinion.

    • germanguy,
      My opinion is slightly different. IMO, the “word that is key”, if understood correctly, reduces the number of search areas from the entire Rockies to a more manageable subset.
      Geoff

      • Geoff,

        I can see where you’re going, but think of the real purpose for an actual ‘key’, doesn’t it unlock you house and give you access to its entirety? How about your car? Same thing.

        Now if you want to look at it as multiple ‘keys’, your home could have numerous rooms with locked doors and that would be closer to your ‘subsets’. You see my point?

        • germanguy,
          Good point!
          In my idea, I believe that I am thinking of a slightly different definition of key, perhaps
          “something that gives an explanation or identification or provides a solution ”
          (Of course, this is just my opinion, and I hasten to emphasize that I do not posess TC.)
          I’m guessing that you would prefer not to suggest which word you think is key? (As I do not.)
          Geoff

          • My first clue is my key at this time. Sadly it leaves with 250 locations to start search. In my attempt to whittle down the list I now have 38 locations. I need to do some more whittling if I am to remain sane. Well I think I am sane……

    • Agree. I have a few “areas” that have come together for my solves but have not panned out. None of which are in NM. One of them is Glacier National Park.

    • germanguy,

      My personal thoughts on this subject are all over the place… 1st thought is, how many years went by before the knowledge of this simple wording ” A word that is Key” Ask yourself, did “you” personally need to know of it, to come up with your solution?

      Haven’t we all dissected every word in the poem and used those words to understand the poem? Sure we have.

      2nd. Is this word an actual hint or clue in the poem? or is it a word used in the book? or even a word that is in the intro in the book leading to the poem… Precisely? rainbow? Nine? The endless numbers of words alone will push most to the looney tune…. Some don’t need that extra push.

      But now we are all trying to “focus” on a single word. So lets play the game that has been set into motion.

      “A” word that is key… Is this- A -hint to which word we should look at?
      A “keyword” as a lot of folks like using this term, I don’t know why…seems this word must be found or the poem will never be solve with out it.

      Then we have the ” most likely list” :
      alone, treasures, secret, riches, old, new, begin, IT, warm, waters, halt, canyon, far, below, Brown, meek, end, nigh, creek loads and high, Blaze and on and on.

      Is “Focus” the word that is key?

      Some are even using words fenn spoke in Q&A’s, SB, interviews, comments, statements All, years after the release of the book and poem. Sure why not… whatever works for ya, I guess.

      Or could it be, that a few clever folks just simply understand the intent of the Author in how the poem was written by understanding what a word “truly” means in the poem and not what we “think” it means?

      But then again… is that not the intent of the entire poem itself?

      All I know is, My word that is key is the right keyword for me.

      IMO………………………..!

      • I’m pretty certain of a key word, but just like saying there are nine clues in the poem, who cares. As long as in the end, you come up with the right solution, nothing is of any real consequence. I don’t know why it happened, but I worked out a solution and it could be looked at from 2 different perspectives and still it leads to the same place. I took it to be a fluke, and stuck with what I felt was the most logical (if I can use that word, regarding Fenn’s style in writing the poem) approach, being careful to prove every step.

        • Well said Seeker, right for you, no better way to put it. For me, my key word is “six”.
          “From there it’s no place for the meek”= “F” are ‘o” m “t” here (“t” in front)= tom it’s no “p” lace for the meek=
          t omit ‘s lace for the meek.= tla ce for the meek. now read backwords= kee me h “t” are “o” f (ec alternate)= kee me h of “see” e= key me h of e. Using letter values, h=2, e=3, you get: key 33 or key 6, or key six.
          Since we all know mirror’s are a part of this poem, mirror six= xisix. x is 9, no matter how you look at it.:)

          • Another secret word may be ” discover” , or disc over. disc, 3 links of chain, support the chest, suspend chest. The alpha/numeric picture…

          • I’m sorry Charlie. But hanging the chest (which is NOT locked) would be too risky. It could be up against so strong winds at some point a risk being spilled. That and that would be like putting a bill board up saying “look I’m here”. Good try though.

          • Well Charlie that could be one way of looking at it, but don’t you think it would be a bit simpler? Just my opinion.

      • funny, you left out my two top words i think COULD be key- i won’t say which … close seconds are treasures, and, where, secret, or begin.

        lately i think the “map” is drawn with the words. so if there are “9 clues,” there are 9 landmarks that are described with words-

        for instance, the correct “Brown” is on the right of the map, and towards the top. “below the home” means basement, – basement geologically is

        “the undifferentiated assemblage of rock (basement rock) underlying the oldest stratified rocks in any region: usually crystalline, metamorphosed, and mostly, but not necessarily, Precambrian in age.”…

        which geological Brown has such a thing? i really don’t think it’s an historical house or camp or river or county or a lot of things. IMO It’s a geological formation. and the correct Brown basement is one of 9- actually, the 2nd of 9. Browns Gulch is a theory.

        you just have to find the right 9 landmarks. (and the correct actual map to match it- i wish i knew which one) then follow the tail…

        • @gg, in a dead tree stunp, actually good idea. exposed to the elements but not, nobody coming up on it and finding it, just a chaser that knows. Out of winds, rain, animals, etc… maybe even on a little island, surrounded by water= away from fire. Sounds very likely.

          • Go back and watch the 3 San Lazaro clips from The Santa Fe videos, pretty sure Fenn gives up the hidey spot…nope correction the Fish Videos.

          • Does forrest know for sure if the treasure is still hidden? I read somewhere he last checked on it, and it was covered in snow. when was that?

          • He did go back. It was the second trip on the afternoon he hid it. Was covered with snow by the time he got there. 🙂

          • GG, really? I remember reading about 2 trips in one afternoon when he hid the treasure but nothing about ever going back and checking on it and nothing about snow, other than maybe searchers should wait for spring or if they search in winter to be careful and stay safe.

          • CJinCA,

            It was just a joke. I added a smiley at the end of my comment. I have no idea as to whether Fenn actually went back to check on the chest. To Fenn, going back to check is really of no consequence to him. If someone finds it and doesn’t go public with it, it still works in Fenn’s favor, as does the chest not being found. His legend of the treasure will survive the test of time. That could change though, if it is found and publicized while his still with us. It then could become a memory, rather than a legend.

          • Just checking on the facts GG! I don’t want anyone who hasn’t been reading the blogs for a long time like we have to take something said in jest and think it is fact. There is so much info out there in the scrapbooks, vignettes, videos, Q&As etc that I’m sure it’s overwhelming to newcomers to the chase. Heck, it’s overwhelming to me! 🙂

          • Nine clues, I just rewatched the 3 San Lazaro videos. I’m pretty sure Mr. Fenn didn’t reveal the hidey spot.

            I’m willing to change my mind. What did you see in the videos?

    • Hmmmm! But, G-man, Forrest has said there are no shortcuts??

      However, I like your description of the key unlocking the door of your house. So, what if the “word that is key” unlocks the front door of the Poem?…….Stanza 1

      Stanza 1 is a location wherein is found WWWH. So, in order to BIWWWH, you must be therein, also. You must be within that lhat location in order to start at WWWH!!!…..IMO

      I have never understood why folks are adamant that WWWH is the first clue??

      Stanza ! describes this location quite well and there is one “keyword” (not in the Poem) that actually does unlock it…(although, “secret” does run a close second!!)…..IMO

      If you really think about it and use a little imagination, you can derive the “keyword” from Stanza !. And, God knows, Forrest has hinted at it enough!! LOL!1……IMO

      The clues really do get easier after that. However, you must be able to view HOB from a certain perspective in order to recognize you are below it……IMO.

      (have you factored that in also, Wolf??? 🙂 )

    • As to the key word, I can remember two things Forrest has said,

      “A word that is key.”

      “In a word, yes.” (Referring to a question as to whether the blaze is a single object)

      I have two theories going right now about that, and those theories will no doubt change tomorrow.

      1. The key word is a word that refers you to the blaze, which is a word in the poem.

      2. Forrest or Burk or Fenn is the key. And the blaze.

      All of this is purely conjecture, because I have no clue right now where Forrest’s treasure is. I know where mine was found, though.

      The more I research, the more I seem to be led back to my original spot.

  57. I would like everybody in this blog to consider the possibility that Fenn secreted the treasure chest in the Pecos Wilderness. First,let’s consider the title The thrill of the Chase, in my opinion, sounds like the Rio of the Chase, or The Rio of the Caza (casa). This rio, or rather creek, starts at the North, and Middle Fork Lakes in Cleveland, NM. Cleveland, as I have stated before, is to me, the home of Brown. The lakes then must be where warm waters halt. If one looks Google Earth and looks at those mountains he or she will see the two F’s , which I think make the blaze that can stand the test of time. One f is capital, and at the bottom of that f, one can see the lower – Case f , which if you look at it real close it looks as if the f is pointing at the lake, see it? Now, when you look at the lake, the lake it self is looking at something, do you see ? The image the lake makes is a surprised face, as if the lake us telling you ,” look at this treasure chest”. To me, that is where the treasure chest is. It may be there , but who knows?! It is my opinion. R C

    • RC,

      Ok, all great. But I’m more curious on why …”everyone in this blog to consider…Pecos Wilderness?”

      Are you not searching yourself? No problem if your not…some folks are just in it for the enjoyment. Just curious.

  58. I have been reading in this forum about some alleged Key or Keyword. I just don’t understand what you are talking about.
    Did FF say that there was a key or keyword? I missed that.
    If there was a keyword how would you apply it to the poem?

    Supposing that there was a keyword, There are nine clues in nine sentences, would the keyword have nine letters? Why not words like Treasures, or … a name?

    • I think you may find enlightenment, if you re-read everything on or about Fenn another 900 times…Or until you can recite every word from TTOTC cold.

    • Michael…I believe the quote that everybody is obsessing over is:

      “It is interesting to know that a great number of people are out there searching. Many are giving serious thought to the clues in my poem, but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key. The treasure may be discovered sooner than I anticipated.”

      Found as response to question #1 here:
      http://mysteriouswritings.com/six-questions-more-with-forrest-fenn/

      To me, that says there is an important word that many people are not focused on, but some are.

      There are many people paying attention to the other other important words, but only a few are focusing on (this one)”

      I have no idea how people can soundly or logically honestly believe that that statement must secretly mean there is one word that a few people know….and this word unlocks the entire poem. I dunno, it seems absolutely rediculous to me.

      Do I believe there could be a ‘theme’ to the poem in general? Of course. And can many themes be labeled by single words? Well, sure they can! But does that have anything to do with a quote from F where one time he said there was an important word that only a few people focus on? No. I don’t think so at all.

      • Jamie, Here is my take on it for what it’s worth. Forrest said: Will the poem lead you to the treasure?
        “Yes if you know where to start.”

        He constructed the poem with one particular word that points to the place to start (ie to start solving it rather than start searching for the chest). Knowing where to start is the key to solving it.

        • Jack- I totally understand that logic and completely agree it could be a great route! By no means was I trying to imply there was no important word, subject, or starting point. I was just pointing out the possibility that the specific quote many are clinging to (key) is more likely to mean that many people are neglecting one of the words than it is to mean that one word will unlock the poem. I’m certain within the realm of starting points, themes, links etc. one could derive a very important word…and maybe it would metaforically ‘unlock’ the poem….I just don’t think that that particular quote was about that subject matter. Just IMO.

          • Best of luck to you Jack…I’ve reached the end of my path, just waiting out the winter…

          • samsmith, judging from your previous posts I think we are following similar paths. Best of luck!

        • Jack,

          The sad truth is, the chest may have already been discovered. I can’t honestly say the even Forrest would know the truth. He does say that some have close focus on it and it may be discovered sooner then he would likes and that in itself is a telling remark.

        • Haha. Me too 🙂 I think the word F is talking about in that quote is more along the lines of “drawing” being a painting or something to that effect….just one of the words/clues…but only a few are focused and correctly interpreting it. (Whatever it may be)

    • All this talk about a word that is key / keyword makes me think of that Herman Melville quote from Moby Dick…..

      “That same image, we ourselves see in all rivers and oceans…… It is the image of the ungraspable phantom of life; and this is the key to it all.”

  59. Checking Inn,
    I’d been think n’, I’d love to run a small motel, something like the one in Cimarron… Or the Brown Hotel… I’d think that might be next for me. Where would be a suitable place is the next question???
    Uncle Ray, my uncle Ray, or our Uncle Ray, suggested we all move west and build a 20 unit palace with food and a bar.
    Sounds do-able? Maybe there’s an old rundown place in the middle of nowhere that would be absolutely perfect???
    Who Knows?

    Overthinker…I have to agree with much of what you said up above, and for what it’s worth it’s tough to keep up with the Seeker!

    I’ve said this before; but chili, on Christmas, in the mountains, in The Land of Enchantment, sounds awesome!

    Mark H.

  60. What’s interesting is that if a word that is key helps unlock the blaze then that will be a harrowing experience since the clues get easier as you go along. I’ll let you do the math, but 4 years of no mention of a word that is key makes finding the first clue a doozy. Then again a few have gotten the first two clues correct. Interesting.

  61. First two clues makes that seem unlikely and also no code or cipher. I agree with jamie that it’s a theme. Something about focus. When he focus’ in plane he covers up Philly. What other focus things are in the book?

    • Dave..just curious…do you own the book? You sure seem to ask often for information that reading the book for yourself might answer.

      • I’m puzzled by your statement Kat, we all resite information to get feedback for our solutions or understanding for parts in the book or a statement that Forrest might have said. I follow a select few bloggers cause usually they have real good info to share, Dal being one, cause his post for the most part are educational for the chase or in general like his adventures diving old ship wrecks.

      • I find there is quite a bit of information in the book 🙂 you will need to read 15 times plus and real slow 🙂
        ++++++++++++++++++++++

    • Dave,

      I believe that Fenn’s story on the flight over Philly, was to tell us something about him, not necessarily how he could cover up a whole city with his thumb. I recognized that he was telling us that he has a ‘relative’ view on things. Think about it. A large portion of his life has been flying. Knowing the lay of the land in the places he traveled to, he could do it without even referring to an aeronautical map. His view from the air is relative to the places he’s flown.

    • Dave, Ah, that explains it. I was curious because you come across as very knowledgable. Thank you for your kind response.

      • In response to focus, I don’t remember any others but was struck but how many times he states in the book that he just looked away. 🙂

    • Mr Dave
      Indiana Jones always has something handy to stop the trap from closing. Why do you think all of Fenn’s books are hardcover

  62. Well, what we might have here is an interesting situation where a few searchers obviously corresponded with ff an idea(s) of a word that is key and later on he made his tight focus statement publicly. Now, his statement could be something to lead astray or some shade of the truth. Or it could be an actual level the playing field clue that each searcher has to determine for themselves how much value it has and has to get the correct solution. If it was an actual level of the playing field clue then those few in tight focus ’emailers’ would get a confirmation to their prediction of a method of solving the poem. It’s a very tricky slope. Of course all this depends on many factors. Moral of the story is this might have been the first time emailers to ff has predicted a clue/hint/method of solve or theme and gotten confirmation. Maybe…

    • I don’t believe Forrest will confirm anything to anyone no matter how close u are 🙂 it’s his chase and we are to find it
      Hands Down 🙂

      • Amy, are you saying when ff publicly said a few are in tight focus…that ff wasn’t telling the truth…like there wasn’t a few in tight focus with a word that is key? It would be nice if you could bring something to back up your opinion.

  63. FD…If I am not mistaken, the first reference to a ‘word that is key’ was made by FF in a Q & A on Jenny’s blog…No mention of e-mailers broaching that subject first in private with him…’Course, I’ve been wrong before…

    • No problem Samsmith, I’m positive that certain searchers can show proof of an email that was sent from them to ff in regards to them thinking they found a keyword/word that is key BEFORE ff made that announcement on or around Feb. 4, ’14. This doesn’t mean the few had the correct word but it does show they got it in before ff said that. Now they are probably smart enough that they aren’t gonna show anyone that email evidence.

      I also back up this with a recent conversation that I had with German Guy when he brought up his ‘combination’ / word that is key in this Nine Clues thread. I left a link of another searcher who emailed ff about a combination to unlock the poem and ff’s key response. And that email supposedly is way before the Feb. 4 announcement. That’s how some can build a case for an actual clue being given by ff on Feb. 4.

      • Gotcha there FD…Seem to remember that little bit about the combination versus the key back then…

        I suppose I didn’t give it too much thought at the time since I already had my ‘word that is key’ before the subject was ever broached by FF…In other words I already had the solution I now have before then(had it since Nov 2013)…Didn’t finish figuring it out to my satisfaction until around March or April this year…Been sitting here staring at it and memorizing it since, just unable to raise the money to go look…

        That’s the reason I made the open offer around June for 5% of the treasure in exchange for the funding to go to Wyoming…Nothing panned out on that one…

        I was hoping and looking for a maverick willing to take a risk on another maverick…Guess there just aren’t enough of us left these days…

        Saving up the dough on my own and will go it alone when the snow melts in the spring…

        I’ll tell everyone the whole story and solution I have after I’ve been there and gone…Few will believe it until it all sinks in…One trip and the chase will be over for me anyway, win or lose(but I don’t see failure as an option on this one)…I wouldn’t risk the expense of a trip myself if I wasn’t sure of what I have…It’s all there, in the poem, for everyone to see if you read it right…I just put a different twist on the words of the poem…

        I suppose one must have faulty vision to see clearly…lol…

        samsmith

        • My thoughts on the “word that is key”:
          I doubt very much FF would make that statement public if someone told them they were working on the correct key. It just wouldn’t be fair to that person unless FF slipped up and accidentally gave that searcher an unfair advantage, then I could see him levelling the playing field.

          One other option to consider is that if someone felt they had a key based solution and was in a battle of wits with him and in his face, I could see FF turning the table on that person and going public just to mess with their mind, anything is fair in a in your face battle, as long as it doesn’t mislead other innocent searchers.

          The only other explanation is: if someone was working on a concept that could accelerate the discovery of the trove but was unaware that it is a “word that is key.” Then I could see such a release since they would never know he was talking about them.

          Just my take on it.

          The Wolf

          • I believe he levels the playing field for everyone. He knows someone is close, so he is giving everyone a chance to catch up and Think 🙂

          • Wolf you say you doubt ff would make that statement public if someone told him they were working on a correct key because it wouldn’t be fair to that person.

            Instead of it being unfair to that searcher it could actually be of big help. That searcher would be a big leg up on the competition who still has to scramble for months or years to find the correct ‘key’. We know it was more than two but not many more so it narrowed the amount of potential matching searchers to a handful or less- confirmation. Much different than a few searchers who have gotten the first two clues correct cause no one knows which of the 25,000 searchers that was.

            And by extension, if ff did use his statement as a leveling of the playing field because he gave a searcher by accident an unfair advantage, he could be actually giving that searcher or few searchers and added advantage again.

      • Fundamental like you said i believe he brings it out publicly to level the playing field.
        I thought i was onto something then i hit a brick wall at 100 mph. I’m still recovering.

        • JJ- I agree that ff might be leveling the playing field and I believe that leveling the field is a good idea but (always a ‘but’) wouldn’t that too be unfair to the searchers who rely simply on the poem and don’t visit blogs?

          • I like the blog but many do not help me in figuring out the solve. I use the poem and the book 🙂

            I also feel that the scrapbooks help if you already know what the poem is about 🙂 There is a scrapbook that confirmed where I’m going and I knew beforehand
            Before he even posted it. I wait because it’s to Cold 🙂

        • Why level the playing field? Didn’t we all begin at the same starting line?

          Not all will finish, some have already gone. Some will be close, Others far behind, and yet, some may never see the end coming. The challenge is to be the lead dog, not Tail Behind.

  64. Mike Hendrickson- I don’t know that “drawing” is the word, and I don’t feel like starting a huge discussion on here, but if you wanna give me your email I can send you a picture (can’t post pics here)…there is a very clear and specific drawing of F’s “nigh”. I’d be glad to send it to you as you always freely share as well just need an address.

  65. All,
    On a different “clues” topic, I thought I should mention that I’m trying to figure out the present tense–future tense–past tense–present tense shift in the poem. (The line in the poem is “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,” not “if you are wise and find the blaze”, for example.) I don’t think I yet understand how to “precisely” follow these shifts.
    Geoff

    • PRESENT!!! “If you’ve been(past)wise and found(past)the blaze.” You are currently standing by,below or above the blaze. Look down . The end.

      • The use of tense is all part of the clue design. Remember in the first chapter of the book that “Time” was thrown in the trash? Read the last paragraph of the book.

      • No, it seems to say that you have moved away from the blaze, or that you should move away from the blaze.

        • Or it might be at the first sight of the blaze look down. The clues lead you on the correct path. At some point the blaze will be seen.

          • Onecorgi,

            Hints to the ‘blaze’ occur prior to the 4th stanza and the actual ‘blaze’ occurs after the 4th stanza. Of course, this is only my thoughts.

          • GG thanks for sharing part of your approach to the poem. It sounds as though you find lines that explain or direct you to what and where the blaze is located. Do you consider lines that assist in finding the blaze as clues or hints?

            One of my approaches has the clues starting with WWWH and ending with “look quickly down”. The other 7 clues are in between those lines.

          • Onecorgi,

            Let me see if I can explain this issue over how many clues are actually in the poem.

            First off, realize that there are in fact, only 9 sentences in the entire poem. Next, if you have worked seriously on the poem for a while, you will see that there are many, many things that you will/have already uncovered to tell you something. Now these ‘things’ are not necessarily clues, but rather hints.

            In all of my research, I came to understand that a number of hints together give rise to one clue. Once you understand how this works, you will see that in fact, there is really only 9 clues.

            So, the key is to try and understand the difference between what is really a hint and what is considered a clue. Personally, it really doesn’t matter how many clues or hints are in the poem, because when you understand how the poem was constructed (which you will if you work on it intently), you will not be focused on actual clues or otherwise, but rather the solution.

            Finally, I recognize the relationship between the 9 sentences and the 9 clues. Eventually you may as well.

          • GG
            Thank you. I Will keep this in mind as I study the poem going forward. Perhaps I spend too much of my time on maps and not enough on the poem. I have been deciding clue one, find places on the map and then look for the location of clue 2 etc. Created a couple of weak solves this way.

          • GG
            Thanks for sharing that perspective. I may be spending too much time on maps and not enough on the poem.

            Lately I discover new starting locations derived from the poem, presently WWWH line. I find locations relative to my solve of the first clue, then I continue searching for locations on the maps that meet clue 2 or create a 2nd clue etc. My clues end when I am to look quickly down.

            I will stick with the poem a bit more often. Thanks again.

      • Couldn’t disagree more. IMHO if Forrest told you exact location of blaze. Your odds of finding the chest would be small.

        • What part of …That if precisely, will lead to …his rainbow and the treasure..” doesn’t sound “exactly” ?

    • Geoff,

      The easiest way to read that line for better clarity, is to replace ‘you’ve’ with ‘you have’. So it becomes “If you have been wise and found the blaze”.

      This way you’ll clearly see that you MUST find the ‘blaze’ in the previous lines, not the following lines.

      • Agree Geoff and Forrest said he doesn’t know that the poem will lead a person to the chest. I take a much more cynical approach. A friend of mine said she knows a guy who wants to have a good time on your dime. I thought that was funny sorta how I see Forrest. He’s having a great deal of fun in his older age with this chase but he hasn’t really put anything up. A vague poem that 100,000 people still haven’t figured. Quite possibly the problem is with the poem and not the searchers. The treasure hunter Shaun Whitehead doesn’t recommend searching for Forrest’s treasure for these reasons. All IMHO

        • Maggie,

          I’m sorry, but I would have to disagree with you. First off, you shouldn’t trust in the words of others, who make comments which have to foundation on fact.

          Secondly, often times you will find that people with blogs of their own elsewhere, are more interested in the traffic they can generate to their site. So sometimes you have to look at comments with a grain of salt.

  66. One thing I started doing since this chase is reading a lot more….

    I did not read much since I was kid until last year and now my library is growing faster and faster…

    but anyway I am reading a book by Saint Augustine called “City of God” and he talks about kings of Egypt in it.. One kid was name Philadelphus… He freed slaves during his reign and also had the Bible translated for him and sent gifts to Jerusalem… I do not know if Philadelphia is named after him or the city in I believe now a days Jordan that is in the book of revelations.. but I thought it was cool…. Philadelphia is just a awesome city with its history in founding this country and with the Bible and Egypt connection I just pointed out…

    I wish I could live a better life where I could help out people who had it bad in our countries past. especially blacks cause of my own family history and what the population of Philadelphia is… I know if 90% of black people of Philadelphia had the same opportunity and quality of life I had growing up on the main line they would have done 10 times better than with what I had….. I think a big problem is being confined in a concrete city… that must be really hard being poor and black living in the conditions like those…. and since if you are black you are told from a young age that the world is against you because of the color of your skin…. we really have to do a better job in this country being more united and giving everybody the same opportunities I had growing up next to Valley Forge Park on the main line with green grass, fishing trips, great schools and room for failure….

    I think what needs to happen is that we need to grow manufacturing back in this country with 3D printing…. We need to spread out more and re due our transportation so everyone can live where the grass is green and fresh air is present…. we need to have students from inner cities connecting with through a facebook for studying with kids from the suburbs, where maybe the best suburban schools are paired up with the toughest inner city schools starting in middle school so these kids and can help each other out… we need more focus in STEM or as I like to call it STEAM (science technology engineering arts and math)…. we need to do a better job in this country coming together, rebuilding/branding our nation for the 21st 22nd and 23rd centuries or we will fall apart….I pray that this with happen soon rather than later and I have full optimism it will…enough is enough….

    Thank you for letting me rant….. I know one of the reasons for Forrest doing this chase was to get kids off the couch and out in the woods but I also believe Forrest did this to turn this country around in some way….. I bet he wishes what I said above will happen….

    What do you say Forrest?

        • Thank you Lynn D….
          I would love to start something in Philadelphia to turn around this countries economy and social well being…to much fighting and intrusive government and not enough love and free markets to get anything going as of right now…

          • Then make it happen cluesfromphilly, in The City of Brotherly Love. You have the vision, now be brave and venture forth….

  67. Philly

    All I have to say is that it would be nice if everyone could actually get along. There is no since in such bad behavior. We are here in this world for a short time and it goes by fast. Or at least the older u get it flies by. PEACE what a beautiful word. 🙂 !!!!!

  68. I just had to share this . I was just doing a little research and found some rules of a stage coach line from the 1800’s.
    1. Abstinence from liquor is requested, but of you must drink, share the bottle. To do otherwise makes you appear selfish and un-neighborly.
    2. If ladies are present, Gentlemen are urged to forego smoking cigars and pipes as the odor of same is repugnant to the Gentle Sex. Chewing tobacco is permitted, but please spit W I T H the wind, not against it.
    3. Gentlemen must refrain from the use of rough language in the presence of Ladies and Children.
    4. Buffalo robes are provided for your comfort during cold weather. Hogging robes will not be tolerated and the offender will be made to ride with the Driver.
    5. Don’t snore loudly while sleeping or use your fellow passengers shoulder as a pillow, he or (she) may not understand and may result in friction.
    6. Firearms may be kept on your person and used in case of emergencies. Do not fire them for pleasure or shoot at wild animals as the sound riles the horses.
    7. In the event of runaway horses remain calm. Leaping from the coach will leave you injured and at the mercy of the elements, hostile Indians and hungry Coyotes.
    8. Forbidden topics of discussion are Stage coach robberies and Indian uprisings.
    9. Gents guilty of unchivalrous behavior towards Lady passengers will be put off the stage. It’s a long walk back. A word to the wise.

    In Forrest’s words this tickeled me pink.

  69. After all this time, we still have not come to terms on the number of clues in the poem. To clear this up, I am announcing that there is only 9 clues and they are…

    …found in each of the 9 sentences. Good Luck 🙂

    • “Begin it where warm waters halt,
      And take it in the canyon down,
      Not far but too far to walk.
      Put in below the home of Brown.”

      “Sounds like three or four clues to me”. ff

      There you have it: 3-4 clues right in that stanza, and Forrest told us so quite plainly.

      I believe that these particular clues are:

      1 – WWWH
      2 – Not Far
      3 – Too Far
      4 – HOB

      All of them share the same trait, and have a distinct location.

  70. Lol
    I just finished a movie and fixing to go to bed 🙂 I really don’t watch a lot of TV these days I consider myself a BLOGGER and it’s a Hobby of mine 🙂 my clients ask if I have a Hobby I tell them yes I’m trying to find a chest of Gold 🙂

    They laugh at me 🙁

    That’s fine cause they spend their time playing poker, gambling at casinos, and playing the lottery

    At least I have adventure in my life
    My Game is better 🙂
    And not to mention I’m getting more knowledgable and wiser 🙂

    • Yes, Amy we have at least learned something from all of our research… Now to do the boots on the ground research… Not that I don’t trust the internet but I do trust it will be even more interesting in person…:)

  71. Iron Will my comments seem to go to the bottom all the time. I think it just is getting tiring to hear him say he knows where it is and what Fenn meant. There are a few that talk like that on their soap box.

  72. Seeker thanks for that. I do click reply then it gives me a box that says leave a reply to Seeker. It still goes to the bottom. No idea why.

  73. Germanguy, For the life of me I can not find the link far above ” I haven’t heard anyone dispute the possibility of finding the chest on conservancy land and claiming ownership.” Without government interference of course” IMHO determined from what I believe ff’s character traits to be ,it has to be on such a piece of land ( public, conservation and land governed by the game and fish department ). It is not on a black or white piece of land but on a grey piece of land where the boundaries overlap and true ownership will not be determined by the courts in a hundred years. My inkling then is that the treasure would go to the holder/ owner as possession is 9/10ths of the law….

    • Lynn,

      Look up above at “dal on December 2, 2014 at 11:08 pm said: “.

      Keep in mind, this was only his opinion regarding “Conservancy Land”. He has no facts to back it up. It was intended to be more, informational. At least that’s what I got out of it.

  74. So ive had one trip to the Rockies to search and i cant go again until im sure, absolutely 110% sure, too expensive. So i sit, i read, and i ponder. I read again and i ponder again, ad nauseaum. So heres whats running through my mind currently.

    (most of these are paraphrased statements, into what i believe Mr Fenn is meaning, as always IMO)

    He has stated that whoever finds the TC will be sure of its location, will just go right there and get it, there will be no guessing.

    It will be someone that reads the poem, reads the book, reads the poem, reads the book again, all SLOWLY. There is no mention of grabbing a map and looking for the 1st clue, location, or whatever.

    Dont mess with his poem.

    All you really need is the poem, if you know where to start.

    Most of the clues could apply to hundreds of places in the Rockies. (dunno if he said this, but it has been pointed out)

    He said the TC is in the Rockies, never said the clues were, that leaves open pretty much the universe of what the clues could mean or where.

    Searching for a HOB is a waste of time, you must find the 1st clue or you will never find the rest.

    This leads me to believe that searching maps for a WWWH, then a canyon, then..etc is a waste of time. There is something about the poem itself, its word structure, or letter placement, etc, that will tell you where it is. The man worked on it for 15 years. Now im of the opinion that he is an intelligent man, but i could come up with a set of 9 location markers in a play on words to tell you where to go to find something, in a weekend, and they probably would be fairly difficult. So im fairly confident WWWH, HOB, etc is not a play on words that can be found with a map.

    anyone wanna please poke holes in my logic?

    • C McElroy,

      Your better put your bullet-proof vest on for this.

      Your remarks about WWWH, HOB, etc., can all be found on a map. If you intend to disqualify finding them first before you go on your search, you will be greatly mistaken. Now don’t let me pop your balloon, I’m just stating facts here. First off Forrest has already told everyone that a “good map” is needed. Also, a “basic understanding of geography”. That should tell you, that in order to find your WWWH and HOB, you will need the 2 tools I mentioned. The poem does tell you where to look, but unless you use a map, how are you going to find this place.

      “He said the TC is in the Rockies, never said the clues were, that leaves open pretty much the universe of what the clues could mean or where.”.

      So, we now can disregard the states he has said are still in play? To me, his remark was pretty specific. I don’t think the universe in a good place to start. 🙂

      “He said the TC is in the Rockies, never said the clues were, that leaves open pretty much the universe of what the clues could mean or where.”

      This statement is confusing. How can the chest be in the Rockies, and yet the clues are not supporting the location for it? I have to use a mortar round on that one.

      Nice try, no price. Sorry. 🙁

      • interesting, i think i should have expounded more, maybe the final clues would need to be in the rockies, if its like a road map, but the 1st few clues could literally start anywhere within the universe as a starting point.

        possibly one of the reasons im beginning to swing more toward something in the poem itself telling you where without the need of a map.

        and he said ya a need for knowledge of geography, and a good map, but he didnt say when. say you found a way to read the poem and it said, “in Canon City, in the wood, near Y Creek and Box Arroyo” Now you have the exact location, NOW you would need a map to find where all that is, and a knowledge of geography to know what those directions mean.

        Again all IMO

    • Okay, so you came back disenfranchised…who hasn’t ? Instead of maligning the Keymaker, why not just share an enjoyable event, chalk it up to experience. We all have to lick our wounds.

      • u misunderstand, this was not a whine, it was me mulling over my latest thoughts on the chase, my feelings that something about the poem will take u right to it, like literally tell you where it is if you know how to read it, and going over maps is not the correct approach. My thoughts are all disjointed on this but im trying to piece it together….

  75. Perhaps the landscape of his map was still develping…. Like new roads, bridges etc… That’s why it took so long to complete.

  76. I guess I’ve just wasted 17 trips, 22,000 driving miles, about 300 walking miles all vertical and probably 2 swimming miles. When all I needed was a bullit proof vest and a map of the universe. I might as well just give up. Second thought, I am enjoying myself getting into pretty good shape and staying out of trouble, think I’ll just keep on searching since I’m getting to know the neighborhood.

  77. Pretty pathetic, isn’t it. Dec 7th is upon us again, but what does this generation or the prior, have to brag about ? We use to be a superpower, now we kinda just sit around & over eat

  78. Everyone may recall, that after my partnering up with Mike D., to search a spot for me in Uravan, Co. I next paired up with Dallas Holmes who lived only 15 minutes from my spot. This time, she had gone over the same ground Mike did. However, in addition to that, I had a second spot that was just as promising, if not more so. I shared that with her as well. The results have been very difficult to report on that second spot, because I have not heard from her since she went to check it out in the middle of August . I have reported pretty much the same stuff I had originally posted on Dal’s blog, however I felt that I needed to give it more clarity, so I rewrote the original post and included pictures and information to support my clues. I hope you enjoy it. It can be found at Germanguy.weebly.com

    You can Google it under “the elusive bronze chest” as well.

    One final thing, if you have any questions on the clues I uncovered, please ask. In other words, Challenge me. Thank You.

    • GG I,m sorry you where left out in the cold by your partner,s..
      In my truely honest to goodness opinion , I don,t think the TC was or is there. From what I’ve read the solve seemed to be all over the place. You came up with solutions to make them fit when you realized that you were missing something . Forrest said you will go with confidence directly to the chest….so my advise is to get a complete solve before you venture into the wilderness.
      But than again..what would I know being a rookie and all.
      Ps..Was that private land you were on?

      • onuat,

        I think you miss the picture here. Almost anyone can put together a poem that would lead others on a journey to a treasure. And, it wouldn’t take more than a year in order to do it. This poem took 15 years.

        Before you say that I’ve made up stuff to fit the poem, tell me what it is you don’t understand in my solution. You’ll be surprised by what I have. I didn’t expect everyone to understand the makeup of the poem, nor the solution I provided. But because just like Forrest has said, “It won’t be impossible, but it won’t be easy either” I selected only things I knew about Fenn. If you really want to disprove my solution, read the book first and then come back and say there’s no hints there that support my solution.

    • Sorry to see you drop out GG, you put a lot into this chase.
      Although I don’t agree with your solution you have made many good points. And, yes, you are right, you cannot trust anyone with a secret. So for anyone who think they can, good luck with that.

      Getting back to your solve,….Do you think a kid or “thirteen year old” could really see this solution? Also, Forrest said don’t mess with my poem, you have done that on many occasions.

      Sorry, but in my opinion, no one has found the treasure as of yet, Forrest would have said so, and he seems to be very sure it hasn’t been found.

      I just find your solution way too complicated to be correct. Sorry, but you asked for a challenge. You had very good ideas and a lot of imagination, but IMO, you just needed to have kept it more simple and used more logic. I think some of the points you made are correct, but put in the wrong place.

      I really liked the format and how you presented your story, maybe you should take it further and write a book on your adventures in the chase.

      I give you much credit for sticking with it for so long. I hope you come up with the right solution someday, even if it is only in your dreams.

      Good luck to you and the wife.

      ritt

      • ritt,

        Thanks for the comment.

        Regarding your questions:
        Given this search was designed to get the kids off the couch, doesn’t tell us that they would be able to solve it. Primarily, because if you consider Fenn’s comment that he’d like it to remain hidden for 100 years, 1000 years a millennium. Think of that statement. If kids of today aren’t smart enough to solve the poem, does that mean that 13 year olds of the future won’t be smarter?

        I’m sorry to humor over your comment about it being too complicated, but wouldn’t that be the results of a man working on this poem for “15” years?

        Keeping it simple never entered my mind. Fenn said it “It won’t be impossible, but not easy either”. So to even consider solving it with simple ideas, would never work. As far as using more “logic”, is what the whole foundation of my solve was.

        I’ve never thought about writing a book, but if someone approaches me for a book, I’ll consider it at that time. Meanwhile, I won’t hold my breath. 🙂

        As I said in my final remarks, I do and always will believe in this location as well as solution. I’m not blind, but have too much faith in myself to think otherwise. Hope you can understand that.

      • I overlooked one of your comments, sorry. Regarding messing with the poem, I haven’t changed one word that Fenn uses. I think you are missing some important comments he made. Like “I don’t like dictionaries because they don’t have the words I need” (paraphrasing here). Take his meaning for the words he uses. They all can be found in dictionaries. Right? So then what does he mean by the words he uses? Simple, the definitions of those words, are not the same definitions as you would find in a dictionary. So, what do you look for? You have to look at the word differently. He says that “every word is important”. True, when you understand “his” meaning. Example: the word “tired” if you study it closely, raises the question, “What do I do when I’m tired”, rest of course. Do you see where I’m going? You don’t need to mess with the word, just understand how Fenn is using it.

      • ritt,
        I hope you don’t mind if I use your words here…Not not to agree or disagree, Just to make a point.

        “but IMO, you just needed to have kept it more simple
        and used more logic.”

        The difference between a poem’s purpose and meaning may not be immediately obvious.
        Purpose: the poem’s intended use or result. Meaning, deals : content and message.
        The definitions of the word use help to merge these.

        But If an Author of the poem writes the meanings of words on his/her terms…How does, Keep it simple and use more logic come into play here. It can be complicated to understand any poem contents, Poets tend to choose their words carefully and to write with precision. The readers logic and the Poets interpretation can be quite different.

        The readers interpretation cannot be made without incorporating the reader’s own prior knowledge, experiences or bias. because of a poem”s interpretive nature, poetry begs readers to include pieces of themselves in their conclusions.

        Now we have the Poet, the poet’s purpose and meaning which may not be so obvious as we like it to be, the Poet’s own personality and meanings of word use, How the poem is represented in the Authors interpretation.
        And now,
        we have the reader’s own prior knowledge, experiences or bias. which can be worlds apart… Point? Simple IMO does not play a huge roll here. Logic in the readers eyes can be out of focus to the poet’s Purpose and meaning.

        IMO…This is the reason the author chose Poetry to relay clues to the location of the chest…. To make it difficult but not impossible.

        Food for thought.

        • Wow! That really is clarifying! I see clearly now that these explanations are a bit muddy.

          • That is the reason and method of a poem….Not to be “clarifying” or clear.
            But some won’t like this explanation. Their just hoping it’s simply straight forwards.

            Mainly, because we all know the correct solution… right?

            Lets face it..the poem is so straight forwards and simple, we all knew the Rocky Mountains, right from the get go… we knew, no structure was involved with the TC. We All knew Idaho and Canada was not in the picture, We also knew a Dam is not WWWH. and that Tucker actually carried the chest for fenn….

            And of course we all know what and where – WWWH and hoB are and mean. because they’re the 1st two clues…
            and the blaze is an owl that flew away when the searchers approached it.

            Yep, simple minded thinking is all we need. I’ve been going at this all wrong.

          • Forgive me but I only read ‘mud’ once again. Please explain? Maybe use bullet points instead of spirals.

          • ritt,

            Most of what you are saying I agree with. Although I never said the words he used are ‘his’ personal, i just his meant the understanding of the meaning of the word and the use of it in the poem. As far as the words he uses being simple…well IMO the use of all the words are quite different from simple.

            The word wood; simple… petrified, an area between a tree line and open field…and some more commonly used definitions.
            But to use a word that is relay to the reader ” his ” intent. the word just may take on a whole new meaning, with a twist.

            “In the wood;” is a term use to to say ” in the saddle” . Wood is also the the part of a horse’s hoof which is called the coffin bone as well as others. Point? not simple use of the word. But Poetic freedom.

            You state: “Fenn has also said that the poem’s meaning and interpretation is straightforward and that he wasn’t playing any games when he wrote it.”

            Fenn may have used a lot of those words, but your statement is far from accurate.
            To my knowledge “Meaning and interpretation” was not used in conjunction with… the “poem is straightforwards”. If some want to think that is the same, Fine. That’s part of and the point I was attempting to make…The poem is a tool to, [and I’ll use fenn’s word], “Twist” the meaning a bit.

            My whole point to my comment was. Using a poem has the tool to bring the clues to the reader and allows many avenues of different uses of All the words
            that are not the simple definition.
            In My Opinion… simple meanings were not the intent. which brings me to a question I have asked before, Why does the poem [ with simple use of meanings and straight forwards ] have so many possibilities for a solution?

            IMO the ” straightforwards” Means: Only if the reader has understood the correct definitions / use of the Author’s intent of “each Intentional word” used, will the poem then, be Straightforwards.

            Sorry for the length of the reply.

        • Seeker, this reply to you had been held back because of one word that I had used.

          Seeker,

          Your point is viable, however, Mr. Fenn is not a poet, he is a salesman, and a darn good one at that. Look at how many people have been following the chase. He’s not selling his story to make money, it’s for his legacy and for the entertainment of it all.

          His poem is not really a poem, it’s a puzzle that’s made to look like a poem. And, in this puzzle he uses words to describe the places in which relate to the nine clues. The words he chose are simple words, but have many different meanings not that they are only of his own personal meanings.

          Heck, if the words are only of his own meaning then it would be impossible to solve the puzzle.
          Mr. Fenn has said that it’s not impossible, but difficult to solve and that cannot mean that he used only words that has meaning to him.

          Fenn has also said that the poem’s meaning and interpretation is straightforward and that he wasn’t playing any games when he wrote it. And surely “it” doesn’t just turn into “9T or 90” , this would be game playing, imho.

          The use of his words in the poem are very imaginative but not deceptive. He knows that the simpler they are, the more difficult it can be because they can be interpreted many ways.

          This is only an opinion, it’s not meant to be the only way to look at this poem (puzzle). It may also be way off base, but, it is the way that i see it and so I’ll live with that right or wrong.

          Mr. Fenn, if you are a poet I’m sorry if I dissed you. I have total respect for what you have done to enlighten many to other worlds for which they have not traveled. Thank you, Forrest.

          More food for thought.

          • Thanks FD,

            Seeker, I think we are not far apart on this. The reason IMO that it’s difficult to solve the poem is because of so many different definitions to the words that he chose to use and there in lies the problem.

            To me, it’s more of a puzzle than a poem, one has to find the right pieces and put them together. The pieces are the correct definitions or meanings of the words he is using. Hope that makes sense.

          • ritt,

            That’s precisely why my solution is so difficult for people to accept, because they loose sight of the comments Forrest has made regarding his not liking dictionaries. He uses words that we all recognize, but he adds his own definition to them. At one point he mentioned this, I don’t recall off hand where that was. Also, I recall his making a comment about his choice of words, in that as long as the person understands what he means, that’s okay (or words to that effect).

  79. So if you had to guess the word that is key could you point to one word that stands out or is it not that black & white. There seem to be soo many keys its hard to say what opens what. lol…. I can see how a key word could be a game changer but only for the person who knows how to use it. Of course this is my view and imo….:)

  80. Well… I have thrown this out there before but no one seemed to comment on it.

    To me the “Game Changer” for me was the word “Title” in the last line of the poem… imho it meant to look at the “Title” of the book…

    “The Thrill of the Chase A Memoir”

    If you “use it” and play around with it you can come up with some interesting results…. Just my line of thought… hopefully it might spark some ideas from others so we can get a bit further in this Chase…:)

    If you are interested in more details I am willing to share but no one seemed really interested last time I shared…

    • Spallies, I’m very interested. When back home next week, lets exchange ideas on the book title. To date I haven’t played around with anagrams or sliding together words. Would enjoy hearing your thoughts soon.

      • Thanks 42 I would like that but i will be traveling for work next week so will not really have a lot of time… maybe the week after.

        • @ Spallies – that gives me time to think on the books title. Looking forward to connecting with you I a week or two if it works out. Safe travels!

  81. HOLD THE PHONE….OK I GOT IT,

    I know what I want for Christmas, I want a book on tape.
    Are you feeling me ? Yes I want Fenn to record TTOTC, then sell downloads thru itunes or something.

    I can’t imagine anything wilder than listening to Fenn’s inflection as he recites his bedtime story to me, over the sound of my dogs barking. It would have the same chapters as the book, just sans the photos. There might be enough proceeds for add’l charity.

    I have zero idea how that would even work, all I know is I would happily pay 20 bucks to hear the words, from the genius that is Fenn, Yeah, I did suck up a lil bit there.

  82. Don’t lose your marbles…
    Forrest already called “Fens”! An all-inclusive call in a game of marbles by which a player can suspend all rules until he has planned his shot. A most valuable offensive ploy.

    [looking at marble terminology for fun to see if any of the terms link to word definitions in the poem.]

    http://refinerofgold.com/marbles/mibology.html

  83. JJ Not much fun if he’s giving it away. I for one hope none of these scrapbooks have a thing to do with his spot and he’s just saying things people will act on or get excited over. I’d lose respect for him blowing the game like that. Same if some braggart was to post viable information just to give it away if they really know the location. I want to figure this thing out to earn it and I hope he ends up a legend.

    • If the TC is even remotely in a questionable locale, then only a retard (mentally challenged person) would reveal it.

      Chances are 50-50 we will never know, who shot JFK/ we will never know. The poem is harder to prove-up than religion. Once the chest is removed, no one can ever prove it was there .
      BTW Dal has expressed the same sentiment, he wants to solve the mystery himself.
      Now how bout getting behind my push to get forrest to record TTOTC for all posterity ?

  84. Hi Folks,
    I have not been posting in awhile however I stop by and try to keep up as much as possible. What I have noticed while reading this morning is this…

    Several folks have mentioned that Mr f took “15” years to write this poem.

    I say hogwash…!!!

    Mr f started this poem one day…but he went about NORMAL Business as USUAL working on the poem whenever he “wanted” to…or…when he had time. Maybe…just maybe…he didn`t work on it at all for months at a time.

    I will “almost” bet that Mr f did Not spend as much time writing the poem in 15 years that most of us has spent trying to solve the poem in the last 4 years…any takers…? :mrgreen:

    My point is this…just because it was 15 years from start to finish does not mean it is highly complicated…just challenging…because most of us have never walked off trails in the same areas Mr f has walked.

    • RickinFlorida,
      I agree with your assessment, some over estimate the true amount of time invested in ” writing ” the poem…No need to talk about other aspect involved, as we just don’t know. At a total of, lets say 2 hour a week, writing and re-writing the poem…That’s 1560ish days of written work. Seems reasonable on the short side.

      But I think most would be surprised, when it comes out / If it ever comes out, The other preparations that may have been involved with the chest and the hide, The travel to and fro, as well as things ‘we just don’t know’. It’s been approx. 1988 or so, to 2009-2010…some 22 years in the completion of start to finish, of the entire journey. That tells me there was an extreme amount of thought and preparation as well as patience involved of fenn’s behalf.

      I’m leaning towards difficult / complicated in a clever and witty way, so not impossible, the average intelligences of a person could not solve it.

      Ummm, well I guest that would depend on one’s definition of average is as well.

    • Actually in TTOTC he said he sat down at almost 80 and wrote it. Thought he had to get going.

    • I would not discount his whole life…his younger life spent in YNP exploring and learning on his own in “natures classroom”

  85. By the way…

    I always wondered why ALL the pictures of the “perfect chest” are from the same angle.
    I think I fount a possible answer to that 🙂

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casket_with_Scenes_of_Romances_(Walters_71264)

    On this particular casket there is a scene with people arriving at the Fountain of Youth.
    It’s possible that there is a scene like that on the back side of the treasure chest and that would make it fit perfectly with my theory and therefore the perfect chest 🙂

    I did say “wishing well” but what I meant was “Fountain of Youth”.
    That’s what his special place really is; a place of rebirth, and as I said it before… think like a fish.

    One more thing.
    Since he planned and thought of everything… we know that he’ll ride his bicycle up to a point then throw it in waterhigh, but after that…?
    How far a terminally ill stage IV person could really walk to throw his body over the treasure?
    Unfortunately I know the answer to that, and that person couldn’t walk to the bathroom in the last couple of months.

    His secret place is very close to waterhigh and, matter of fact, there is an easy access to and fro. IMO, of course 🙂

    • Forrest mentions the name “Tucker” in 2 posts…
      one about Tucker Wyche and one about his granddaughters dog named Tucker…

      There is a book/movie called Tuck everlasting…maybe that has something to do with it?

  86. I came across this site while searching for the treasure.

    buildingontheword.org/treasure-as-love-and-detachment/

    Something to discuss, how did this picture show up on this site?
    This is the exact same treasure chest that’s in TTOTC, pg 133.
    The article has a date of August 12, 2007. Long before TTOTC came out.
    Where did this picture come from? And, who was the original photographer?

    I e-mailed Fr. George M. Smiga and asked him where they got the picture of the chest. No response as of yet, that has been over a month.

    Forrest, do you know anything about it? Do you know this person Fr. Smiga?

    Does anyone know anything about it?

    Forrest, is this picture of the treasure chest really the chest that you hid in the Rockies?

    It just doesn’t add up.

    • i looked at the coding for the page, and the picture is in an upload folder that appears to have a date on it of 2013/08, so its possible it was added later than the 2007 date

    • this was brought up a few weeks ago…
      the original post was in 2007 or so but the picture was added recently…. Dal talked to the guy whose blog it was or something..or the guy asked F if he could use it…

    • The message of this homily was terrific food for thought or “Sunday Stuff” as JC1117 calls it.

      In the end, all that will matter boils down to: love; our relationship with God & people; memories.
      That’s it.

      If you’ve ever faced death you know the truth of it.

      • That’s really cool…to be recognized for placing real value on “Sunday Stuff”. 🙂 Of course, the people who value that kind of “stuff” will learn about it (the easy way or the hard way) and practice it day-to-day…not just on Sunday…no matter where they learned it. The real message is Love…Pure and Simple. Those who learn that principle…and live it…will move into eternity with smiles on their faces. God-willing it will happen when we are “ready”. 🙂

    • The photo appears to be newer than 2007. Not sure what or how this happened though. 2013 upload. Borrowed from ff?

    • Forrest let him use the picture. He just put it up there a couple of months ago. The 2008 date is when the original article went up. He added the pic of the chest a few months ago.

  87. Has anyone else pondered that “worth the cold” means the act of picking up the bronze chest? As pointed out in TTOTC, bronze feels cold even in a warm environment.

      • IMO…worth the cold to me means…

        no paddle up your creek = wade up the creek…mountain water is cold.

          • So, you are saying that wading in a cold mountain creek is worth your effort even if you don’t find the treasure chest. I don’t think so and neither does Forrest. What he is saying is that your effort will only be worth it if you find the cold bronze chest.

            How can your effort be worth the cold …if wading up a cold creek in the mountains doesn’t produce the TC? Your effort is then not worth it. What then will be the prize for your effort?

            Only the finder of the chest will feel that their effort was worth the cold, all others will not. See what I’m saying?

          • Ritt,
            does that mean that you will not search for the chest for fear of not finding it…? Alot of people in their searches have crossed and waded in creeks and came up empty handed. Many more people have searched in drier areas and again came up empty handed.

            You are saying the only person whose effort will be worth it will be the one that finds it…?

            I believe alot of folks have learned being out in nature is a “prize” in itself.

            If I lived closer to the Rockies…I would spend most of my time searching creek banks…but that is just me.

          • Rick…What I’m saying is that wading in a cold mountain creek in and itself is not wort it, not the searching for the TC.

            If there were no TC would you be out wading in the cold mt. creeks? I doubt it!

            The prize of your effort is the TC.

          • Ritt,
            you state…and I quote…

            I don’t think so and neither does Forrest. What he is saying is that your effort will only be worth it if you find the cold bronze chest.

            unquote…

            Can you please show me where Forrest stated this…?

            Or is this only your opinion…?

            If it is only your opinion then we both understand one another…because it is my opinion what worth the cold means as I Stated above when I said…”IMO”

            You state it as “fact”…so please tell all of us where Forrest stated worth the cold means the chest itself.

          • Sorry…my opinion. Forrest has stated in TTOTC, that the bronze statue felt cold to the touch even when it was warm in his gallery.
            But, IMHO, that’s what he is saying.

          • Ritt,
            I just did not want someone coming here to Dal`s site and take something for fact that is actually an opinion.

            All is good 🙂

            as long as you stay outta my cold mountain creeks :mrgreen:

  88. Saw this on Facebook last night:

    It’s a very true comment,

    Before Judging me, make sure that you are “Perfect” before u do judge me.

    I really like that , 🙂

    • Amy 🙂
      I get judged unfairly and often about trying to solve f’s poem and for many failed search attempts (I had a great time every time). I don’t care anymore. Here’s my thoughts on the matter:

      The goods in this game are so good that they are worth ignoring the fact the odds of getting the goods aren’t good.

  89. This isn’t related DIRECTLY to the nine clues, but I sure hope they are clues for me (you’ll get a kick out of it)…

    I have been immersed in this treasure hunt for 5 weeks now…I know I know… still a noob to most all of you. But I’ve felt strong about my solution. So strong that something is taking shape for me. I cannot say what yet, but I will leave you with the FUNNY part:

    ——I have been on diet for a little over 3 months now and have lost about 22 pounds just by making my own meal portions. I set up 5 to 7 days worth of meals in advance, comprised of mostly proteins with some rice or pasta. I have rice, soy, egg, meat, and fish protein in each meal (sort of a surf and turf combo with a spanish((rice and beans) theme). Each meal is around 500 calories. Some days I eat 1900 and some days I eat around 1500 calories, depending on my hunger. But let’s jump to the funny part. I order quart sizes of Yung Chow Fried rice (1000 cal per qt) as the base mix from my favorite Chinese Restaurant here in town, and then I add more meats and beans to it and portion. This couple and their kid … they are such kind people. Every time I get an order I tip 5 dollars (which is actually 22% since I order 3 qts of it with xtra shrimp), and they act like its too much..so I tell them no…”thats about standard for a tip, everyone around here needs to tip you guys better.” –getting sidetracked again 😐 —

    Anyway the husband comes by with my order last week and I told him that this spring I was going to go out west and get a treasure, and if I was right and it was there… that I would buy a quart of fried rice from them for $ 1,000.00 . He was stunned…but as he walked to his car afterwards I can only imagine he thought “yeah like that’s gonna happen!” I’ve been totally fixated on this treasure for the last week and I ordered tonight again to make about 4 days worth of my “Surf and Turf” rice and beans. He came with the order and this time I said nothing was just polite and tipped him 5. I went into the kitchen to start dividing up all the ingredients into 10 bowls and was about to throw away the bag. My eyes caught the glimpse of two fortune cookies in the bottom so I grabbed the bag back out of the trash thinking, “Oh what the hey! I guess I can atleast humor myself”

    https://asignoflife.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/fortune-cookie-blank.jpg

    I pulled out the two cookies and opened each one quickly pulling them out of their pastry shell, as I was in a hurry to get my meals completed and started reading the two fortunes that were relinquished…..

    “You Will Have Gold Pieces By The Bushel”

    “Remember Three Months From This Date… Good Things Are In Store For You”

    100% true 😯 —- Hope you guys enjoyed it.

    Will

    • Iron Will,

      Nice story…………….but, think about it………………..90 days……
      Three months from now will be Mar7, it’s the middle of winter in the Rockies…..hope you take all the gear needed to search then.

      When has anyone gotten a bad fortune from a fortune cooky?

      Good luck to you…be safe.

  90. I have this Friday and the following Monday off, and I want to take a trip West to search one more time before Spring! I would have a lot of prep work to do before then, but I could pull it off, if the airfare Fates lean in my favor.

    • save your money, bide your time, pour over every map you can find and when spring gets here, take your mom with you.

      You gotta spend a week or more, breathe it in. Spend a night in a tent, just remember the batteries or a hand pump, because it’s hard to get a good night sleep on a uninflated air mattress. IMO

      • I wish I could, 9. But my mom is unable to travel and relies on oxygen 24 hours a day. I’m not going specifically to hunt for treasure, but to maybe take a few days of some much needed alone time. 🙂

      • Ever heard of ‘Events & Adventures’ ? Don’t become just another crazy cat lady. It’s important to have some go-to crazy friends, just not Thelma & Louise crazy.

  91. Sorry, if that came across mean. I like to think this chase has turned into a Zen quest. Always enjoyed trips to the coast, now all I think about is exploring the Rockies, go figure. I have probably told a 100 strangers about Fenn’s challenge. It’s the best bucket-list item , that never would have occurred to me.

  92. Samsmith and others…
    you guys keep saying you’re going to go looking come spring, but isn’t the weather just as bad then in places like Wyoming in the mtns? forgive my lack of knowledge if not true, I live in the desert…..
    and if you say spring, what month does that mean?
    samsmith as for your offer of 5% of the treasure to be funded, if you think you know the exact spot i’d pay your way AND go with you for 50% of the treasure, because we may have the same spot!

  93. @ German guy so is it true your throwing in the towel? Are you saying you can’t match wits with Forrest or is there another reason?

    • Lucky Girl,

      As my friends and family will tell you, I am a very logical person. I don’t see problems where others do. Don’t get me wrong here, my intent is not to brag, only to make a point.

      I’ll share a real life story with you. Many years ago, I worked for the Boys Scouts of America, when they had their main office in New Jersey. I was employed in computer operations. One day I learned that they had a blind programmer, who had to have an assistant read his print-outs for him, because for obvious reasons he couldn’t read them himself. I thought about this for a couple of days and came up with a solution. I wrote a program that would take advantage of characteristics of the printers that we used. The result of that program enabled me to print in Braille. At the time we had no printers capable of accomplishing this task. They reassigned this reader to another task and the programmer was able to read his own print-outs. This is only an example of the way my mind works. I worked so hard for 3 years on Fenn’s poem, in the end, I feel I have done just that. Matched wits with him.

      Now I didn’t expect everyone to see things the way I do, but there have already been a few who have read my solution and followed up on it. These were probably individuals who understood what I was presenting. Since I have just revealed my second location, I suspect many more (who understand it) will go there as well. I just hope my feelings about the 2 people who know about this second spot is wrong. I would obviously feel bad if others went there and were disappointed. We can only hope.

      One thought I had, is if enough people did go to this new spot and reported their findings to Fenn, would he be willing to announce that the chest has been found by an unknown. I think it would be unfair to everyone, to continue searching if in fact the chest is gone. I apologize to everyone, if it sounds like arrogance on my part to say I solved the poem, but that’s exactly what I’ve done (IMO). So far, I’ve had no challenges to my solution, so I have to take that to mean that no one really understands it or just aren’t ready to. Believe me, I know it is a complex solution, but remember who the author of the poem is.

        • Absolutely. As I said, my greatest ambition in this search was solving the poem. Or as you said earlier, matching wits with Forrest.

          • Greed is fickle, it distorts ones way of thinking and places blinders on you, so not to see the whole picture. Knowing of the chest will not solve the poem.

            How many people would take the time to solve poem and search for the trove, if it was a small tin box with a dozen marbles in it?

            I agree with germanyguy, it’s was and is the challenge presented…and not so much the trophy as the satisfaction.

      • I am sure I can challenge your solve. But not in public as I am only waiting to heal. First set of bad luck was being stupid and not drinking water in the sun. Then the nice gent who T-boned me at 50mph but a damping on my walking …. Breathing… Laughing…. And pretty much everything else. Soon I will go.
        But if you would like a challenge I can give it. I won’t tell you where it is and you don’t have to either but can make you think twice.

        qualitypirate@gmail.com

    • does this mean, that when someone finally does find it & it’s hundreds of miles away/ in a another state that it won’t bother you ? BTW I haven’t been following your logic. I have my own theory which I believe, the location itself is so Unbelievably spectacular you wouldn’t dare give it out prior to seeing it in person. IMO

        • “Will it humble you is what I was implying…”

          Absolutely not. I have implicit faith in myself. If not, who? It’s that faith, that prevents me from making a fool of myself. As they say, the proofs in the pudding.. 🙂

      • I am not suggesting anyone drop their clues on where they believe the chest to be. That, to say the least, would be totally unfair of me. What I am saying, is that I (as many on here) have a perfect solution or some degree of it. That is what I was after and I found it (the solution). I had intended it to be put to good use by someone other than myself. Sad to say, greed sometimes rules out in the end.

        Like I said, I have only shared my recent spot with 2 people. Either could have it at this point.

        It’s sad to think that money has such a high priority in some peoples lives.

        Fenn has put this adventure together for all of us. If nothing else, we should appreciate the fact that for many, it has opened a totally new world to them, the beautiful outdoors.

        • GG,
          This a genuine sincere question: Are you physically unable to search for the treasure in the field? I understand others have commented on the cost of travel being minimal compared to the value of the treasure. If you are disabled I would better understand why you are going about this using alliances. That is why I am asking a somewhat personal question. I will understand if you choose not to respond.

          • Onecorgi,

            To be quite honest, I wish I had a few less years on these weary bones. I did what I could to get a few searches under my belt, before I started to seriously slow down. Now I content myself with just following. The solve I posted, was my “coup de gras”.

  94. GermanGuy

    You did well, and you did your best and you were part of The Thrill of a Chase , at least you did try and figure it out, it’s what we are all trying to do. But u did not fail by any means . You have memories and more knowledge of things u did not have before . 🙂 !!!!!!!

    Great Job 🙂

  95. Germanguy,
    Congrats! Its great you were able to match wits with Forrest. Few could say that honestly. I’m not one of them – not that bright. I have sound reasoning skills and am intuitive which has carried me thus far in my solution. I would still love to find Forrests “pearl of great price” hidden for all to find, to be able to shake his hand and give him back his treasure. If can’t adequately complete final steps/clues in my solution to know I’ve found it, I’ll quit this spring. My totc adventures and effort have to end as well.

    • I do believe you’ve thrown down the gauntlet. Will ff rise to the Occasion to match wits you? I don’t think so but I do hope so, it would be interesting to follow the online dual.
      I may be a nitwit but somehow I think I could enjoy listening in. 😉

      • My comment above regarding the gauntlet should have been a reply to GG.

        ——————————

        “So your satisfied in believing you solved it without seeing the chest?”

        Absolutely. As I said, my greatest ambition in this search was solving the poem. Or as you said earlier, matching wits with Forrest.

      • Funny you should say that. I would never even think to ask Fenn to disprove my solution. The way I see it, it would bring to an end the legend he hopes will live on long after he is gone. I can appreciate his feelings in that regard.

        • GG,
          Matching wits can be done in many ways. Discover some other unsolved puzzles, treasures etc. Let one of the chasers pick the “test” of wits. And giddy-up.

          For example’s sake only I have a geocache posted online. The solve can be done completely online and no travel required. It was actually my nitwit way of creating a puzzle for folks that don’t know, calculus, code breaking etc. A simple man’s puzzle, Well I accomplished half of my goal, that is, no calculus etc., but not an easy solve. I can now appreciate how difficult TTOC solve must be since ff put much thought into it and he is not a nitwit.

          No ulterior motive for posting this link. It is not my site, but the official geocaching site. GG I hope you try and are the first to solve it.
          http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC12324_a-stage-born-kid

      • Onecorgi,

        I have an idea. I would like to propose a challenge to everyone. Some may find it enlightening others may not. “Knowledge is the way one learns to think intelligently”. gg

        Supposing I open myself to any questions on how I went about coming up with my solution. Not only that, but also facts to substantiate what I found, to prove nothing was forced (as one searcher has suggested). I think it will be helpful to most. What do you all think? Are you game?

        • Ok GG I will play because I know you want to. I will have to reread your solution, as all I remember is that it was something about uranium.

          First question, FF says the some are in tight focus on a word that is key. Not sure if you used one but it doesn’t matter, if you have the correct solution you should be able to reverse engineer a “word that is key” from your solution. What is the “word” and how does it work?
          The Wolf

          • Because any solution has to take in all other facts FF has said not just the cherries we pick. Thus we must account for a “word that is key.” Surely if one has the correct solution one would easily find that word. no?
            The Wolf

          • “Because any solution has to take in all other facts FF has said”

            What do you mean by “take in all other facts FF has said”? Would this include his facts in other books, interviews, online statements among others?

        • GG, Second Question:
          You quote:”The 2nd and 3rd lines of the last stanza, tells us that the ‘cold’ is the San Miguel River (which we cross), and the ‘wood’ is the trees we’ll find on a small levee on the other side.”

          My bear canyon solution had a a river to cross and was surrounded by threes. There are tens of thousands of solutions that can require a river to cross and are surrounded by trees (I think that is almost a given it is in the rockies). So how do you account that your interpretation on cold and wood are uniques to those tens of thousands of possible solutions? I would be interested in hearing about how else those words can give your solution strength.

          The Wolf

          • Wolf,

            Excellent question. I believe both of our understanding of the river and trees differ. Let me explain. I believe (correct me if I’m wrong) you are considering trees along a river. In my solution, the trees are limited to one area. In my solution, I explain that the trees are on a levee. According to the dictionary, a levee can run parallel to a river, as well as across it like a dam. Levees are formed along side of a river by nature over time. The sand and stones accumulate over time and become higher than the water level. They can become inundated with water when the levels rise. Fenn’s chose (me thinking) was perfect, because the San Miguel is one of the last free flowing rivers in the country. By this I mean, there are no control dams (other then local irrigation diverters) on the river. So saying Fenn goes when the water is at its’ lowest (very possibly in winter), he could easily plant the chest in the trees. Now back to the trees on this levee I mention. The levee, obviously is on the opposite side of the river from the Rest Stop. To boot, it is backed up to a sandstone cliff. So unless you cross the river, there is no way to get to the trees. How that was clear enough.

          • GG your explanation of your use of trees is clearer, but I would like you to explain how my use of trees or anyone else’s is wrong. OR better put how is your use of trees more convincing that anyone else’s? Maybe I am failing to see the “Forrest” through all of your trees! 😉

        • GG, Third Question:
          “If you are brave and in the wood”. You should hear ‘u’, ‘r’, ‘av’, and ‘an’, when said together will give you ‘uravan’.

          Actually, I hear “F – U – R – BR – A – V – AN”, I couldn’t find a Furbravan anywhere, Ok it I chop off the end like you did, I still hear an “F”, so you have Furavan. Where or what is a “furavan?”

          I like your line of thinking with this concept, I just do not agree with the application.

          The Wolf

        • GG,
          I would not be interested in participating, remember I am a nitwit. I imagine participating would demand more time than I want to devote.

          I also expect it would be discussed in Martian language (I can’t say Greek because I can read Greek) which will exhaust my mind to no real benefit.

          All this to say bring it on folks! As for me I will be lurking.

        • GG, Fourth Question
          Home of Brown. I am really lost here so please help me. Are you saying you don’t have one or that you levitate or beam yourself to the hoB from the previous clue. Or are you saying you don’t have to be exactly at the hofB and just need to be in the general area. If general area is fine, then doesn’t that allow an exponential increase in competing solutions?

          Please help we with this one as I am a little lost, are you placing the “meek” clue ahead of the hofB? If so does that not violate the “follow in order” directive given by FF?
          The Wolf

        • IMHO, GG’s “solution” lacks in the same two ways that many posted here do: they use too little of the poem and they are not precise.

          If you discount two lines (just for rhyme scheme) and more then why did it take Forrest so long to write? ‘There are a few words in the poem that are not useful…but it is risky to discount any of them’.

          I don’t see how you can start with nine (or fewer) vague clues when told “nine clues that if followed precisely…”.

          If your nine clues don’t lead to a specific GPS location I suggest you think again, IMHO.

  96. We all believe we have a definite solve and cannot wait to strike that trail in the hopes of recovering that hidden treasure.
    We will fail,get up and brush the pine leafs off and start all over again,because we are the carriers of that infectious disease”The Chase of the Thrill”. The chase of hope,excitement and disappointment when we realize that in the end the Thrill just keeps going and the one that is swiftest will eventually catch up to it.

    • onuat: I once believed that the prize belonged to the swiftest.
      It will take patience, perseverance and some deep thinking to find the chest.
      There are a few, that are edging ever closer.

      • Emmett
        Imo, I don’t think it will take all that if you have solved the clues beforehand and are going to ‘the spot ‘with the confidence of a Maverick.
        Keep in mind that there are 100,s of people with the same solve which might differentiate a little.
        I have persevered,used a lot of patience and believed me quite a whole lot of deep thinking on the reading of the book and solving of this poem and will go with confidence come spring…hey,if I fail…oh well, I won’t cry about it…life goes on.

    • Germanguy – I’m confused by your recent comments regarding the treasure being possibly in the possession of your partner – unless you are Forrest.

      1. Forrest stated recently the chest is still in its hiding spot.
      Why do you think it’s possible that it has been found by a partner of yours?

      2. Lynn asked to read your solve but your link leads to 3 audio taped messages from ff (many years ago) which are not a solve to the current poem.

      3. I have remained in the chase rather than quit because of your charge to finish the adventurously, sliding in sideways yelling holy $?@! what a ride!” (Not simply quitting after matching wits.)

      Understand if you need to quit for personal reasons but please don’t throw doubt about tc into the equation for other searchers.
      Until Forrest Fenn signs in as Forrest Fenn and says the treasure has been found, I will reasonably assume it’s still where he placed it.

      • Lucky #13, somebody better pour water on this episode of The Nine Clues, before it’s archived

          • Onuat
            What do you mean? Is archiving a bad thing? this discussion seems to be very much on topic. Unless some would rather this discussion to end for their own benefit? That will be Dals call. Wolf has offered to discuss the Poem/Hints with GG. I hope the dreaded? Archival does not happen.

      • Lia…in response to your number 2. Click along the clues at the top of GG’s page to read his solve.

        GG…You have always been one of the most courteous posters on this spot and I have truly appreciated you. Loved your solve even though it is not in my area. Good luck to you always in your life.

      • lia,

        Forrest has no reason to go out and check if the chest is there. He assumes that someone will contact him when they find it. He has no idea if people are keeping tabs on him or not, it’s too risky.

        Secondly, Tell Lynn to click on the tabs just above my banner.

        Thirdly, I am convinced the chest has been removed already. To continue, is fruitless. Sorry, but that was something I really didn’t expect, nor have any real control over.

        I realized the danger of revealing my solution publicly. I had to give it some really serious thought before doing it. But I had a responsibility to myself as well as the other searchers. I couldn’t just let that last search story go without an explanation, as it had promised to share the results as soon as I heard. It started in July, and here it is, December. What would you have thought of me if I kept this a secret and never revealed it?
        I had partners and a solution that I believe in. So now, even if I could, I wouldn’t go there.

        I’m sorry you feel the way you do, but I’m sure you understand.

        • German-
          You sound like all the other folks who didn’t find the chest…
          “I know where the chest was hidden but it was gone when I got there…”
          That’s just sour grapes. I’ve looked at your solution and it makes little sense to me. I’ve listened to some of your arguments and know that you pick and choose what you want to believe Forrest meant by the words in his poem and words he has used in his writings and responses.

          Most of your connections are as loose and preposterous as is my connection to the Pope.

          This is the second time you’ve claimed you know where it was hidden and the spots were a few hundred miles apart. Why on earth would anyone trust you or believe you??

          and while I am at it…What on earth makes you feel you are wise enough to tell us what Forrest or anyone else “assumes”. Unless Forrest sent you an email that said he “assumes” such a thing as you have stated, that is deplorable and unaccountable .

          You gave your location to Forrest. He didn’t respond…that makes you feel you are correct…
          Holy Toledo Batman!!!
          I guess if that was the litmus test for accuracy everyone who writes Forrest with a solution or location must have it correct since he doesn’t respond to those emails either…

          But you have just crossed the line on this blog with your ridiculous assumption that you have cracked the poem but the treasure is missing…
          How many folks have said that on this blog now???
          Maybe you are number 7 and none have been in the same place…

          You can finish this over on your blog…

          I can’t believe I sat here and let you claim you know where it is…

          • Dal, I am just shocked by your post. All these years reading your blog and I had no idea you are related to the Pope. Wow. 😉

          • Dal’s taking no prisoners! Can’t say I blame him either. The various tales of those that have definitively found the treasure or solved the poem must become taxing to the blog’s sponsor and to many others as well. Enthusiasm is great, but the wiser course is to temper it with a little humility.

          • Thanks Dal.
            I think gg’s great accomplisment was singlemindedly pounding a square peg into a round hole.
            I’ve been sorta lurking-shirking, mulling what ff said was “IMPORTANT”, and pairing them to his 3 autobio eras…youth, war, and Santa Fe. (Catcher, Hemingway, and East Egg-West Egg.) No solves, but opened new doors. Would we be surprised if TC hunt included a school campus?

        • GG –

          I cannot believe your quitting and giving up, We have both been here a long time and can you not imagine that your spot was not the right one?

          Perhaps you missed one thing – a turn or a word with a different meaning. With all your work – it hurts me to see you give up.

          You know – I think you are in the right state and Dolores and the hanging flume was pretty amazing as a solution. I can tell you – my solution is just as great – and nowhere close to yours.

          So tell us all of your thinking and maybe something in it will help someone here. Let it fly because I think the TC is still out there.

          Maybe in the future you will see a new place – I hope so as I have always enjoyed your posts.

  97. What’s all this about “matching wits” with FF? Like any other man he meant EXACTLY what he said. Then he made it sound like a poem.
    I really like GGs Dolores Canyon solve. The hanging flume is the best ‘heavy loads water high’ solution I’ve seen.
    But, I prefer the Diablo Canyon solve. It can be done in one afternoon from his home in Santa Fe. All the clues and hints can be made to fit without stretching or forcing it….except “wise”. My grades were never good enough to figure out wisdom.

  98. Has anybody ever thought that ff found Cibola the City of Gold and that is the actual TC?! ff knows a lot about Native American cultures so you would think maybe he has studied the Hawikuh Ruins in Cibola County NM. Maybe he saw something there that led him to the actual Cibola and that is where he is leading us on TTOTC. He has said She would be happy when she saw what was in the TC (paraphrasing). I am pretty sure I would be excited to see Cibola!!! Cibola has been there for a very long time and maybe that is why he knows that TC is still where he (Cibola) was placed.

    Just thinking here
    Happy Holidaze everyone!

    • Pooch,

      Very interesting idea. It gets even more interesting when I recall that ff mentions “title to the gold” in the poem. Might the title actually be gaining land rights to the location you mention or some other location?

      • Wouldn’t that be sweet? With an all-knowing guy like Fenn, you can’t rule anything out.

  99. Back to the clues….
    here’s a nonclue I think:
    I give you title to the gold…
    I give you “indulgence”….
    I give you satisfaction/fulfilment (because you found it).

    🙂

    • Okay, back to the nine clues. From what I’ve found, it’s easy to check your work so-to-say, use the 9 lines that you use for your spot and add them together. Example: If you used lines 2,5,8,9,12,13,20,23,24, then you would have: 2+5+8=15=1+5=6(first 2 stanzas)9+12=21=2+1=3(third stanza) 13=1+3=4(forth stanza) 20=2+0=2 ,23+24=47=4+7=11=1+1=2, 2+2=4(last 2 stanzas) So you have 6342, which is your elevation of your spot. Before you tear this apart, remember, this is an example. The actual solution is done this way, stanzas 1&2, stanza3, stanza4, stanzas 5&6.
      X=9, (nine clues), lat./long=x=9, the nine clues that give your lat/long give you that elevation…

      • Ok charlie, I like that your attempting this avenue and applying it to a solve…Most don’t like the math thingy.

        My thought or approach would be a little simpler. If you count the words in each line example : stanza 1 you end up with 7567. Do this with all the stanza you end up with 6 numbers….So what do you do with them?
        One possibility is the elevations of the Mountain range in your area, this would coincide with the Parent, sibling and child Mountains of the area…Crap did I say child? But that is just an example.
        Another method is add those number together or 25 and the same for the other stanzas…the use of these “could’ be a set of pacing steps, such as start at your halt spot…head south or down X amount of paces, turn right or far X amount of paces or NOT FAR could mean turn left…your choice, the turn right or far X amount….well you get the gist.
        The simpler use of number counts and the use of the word meanings may be the way to look at it.

        Just examples for consideration. There can be many thoughts on how to use them, not unlike WWWH, just need a little imagination and the willingness to try.

        But if you want to think there are coordinates in the poem…try looking at the Capital letters…
        My thought process is to use all the poem for finding information / hints… But that is just me.

        • it’s hard to go confidently to one spot without coordinates. There are numbers in the poem, but if you don’t believe so be it. My example was just that, my 9 lines I used to get my lat/long, when added like I said, gave me the exact elevation of those lat/long coordinates. And that number coincides with a number that is familiar. I get that the numbers thing is just how I go about it, but, to get those numbers, find coordinates, and simply add the lines together and I get the exact elevation is….reassuring I guess you can say. Believe me, I do use the whole poem. Solving the poem first then going back and seeing everything fall into place makes for a good solve. To me, there’s nothing else to solve, just find little hints everywhere.

          • Agreed with what you said, I just uses different method that works with hint in the poem as well. Those numbers { dare I say IMO a simpler way } But that is just a method of looking at the poem. Hopefully one of us maybe right.
            I’ll throw this out there now…
            The use of the information discovered in the meaning of hoB, show me a lat.
            hoB as a hint to reveal a clue… The structure of the poem finds the clue, and the structure and the capital letters show the remaining remaining coordinates.
            But this In my theory / method shows the location the Author want a searcher to be. Not the location of the chest. Not yet anyways.

            I just like to chat with folks that attempt to utilize the entire poem. IMO that is a must.

          • Seeker a question or more like a point I may make re the quote below:
            Seeker “I just like to chat with folks that attempt to utilize the entire poem. IMO that is a must.”

            “Utilize the entire poem”. Does this include folks that use the entire poem to solve a more simple consecutive 9 clue method with no math or letter massaging? Or would you consider the method I mention as being a bit shy of utilizing the “whole poem”?

          • @seeker, agreed. It seems like everytime I try something new, it circles around to same ol’ thing. Alot of hints and backup info. My hoB is a landscape, so is my zip code. As far as the blaze, pretty easy and straightforward, “b” lazy,( actually, the value of “b”)
            For any noobs wanting to try something different, research Phillips code. (Not the remote control).Then go through the poem, again, and again, and …….

          • Onecorgi,

            That’s the Million Doller question isn’t it.
            A method / theory is only has good as it’s results. Personally for someone who took the time [ hate repeating this… some 15 years ] an the dedication [ now some 21 plus years later ] he put into this challenge. IMO just using a more “simple consecutive 9 clues”, possibly leaves a lot of information that the poem could hold, not even look a pond seriously.

            I have even heard some say they disregard stanza 5 & 6 as fillers. some say stanza 1 is just an intro and mean notta, or just say 9 lines equal 9 clues only. Seems to be a lot of wasted space and I personally give Fenn more credit… Does that make my theory or method correct or even close. Nope. I just want to make sure of every use of the poem is exhausted to my satisfaction and not used to be forced into a solve.

            I’ll even ask this, are the hints in the poem, consecutive as well? or just the answers one finds…Clues… from the hints?

            Honestly simple does not apply IMO. Until that searcher can put his/ her finger on how Fenn meant the poem to be read.

            IMO and only mine…I think most read the poem wrong. But that’s just me.

          • Seeker,

            Thank you for taking the time to respond to my question. I am a bit taken back by your response and had hoped for a more direct response…..but that is just me.

            I scratch paragraph one as a non-response.
            I scratch paragraph two as a non-response
            I scratch paragraph three because it is a question in response to a question and I despise that type of response for personal reasons
            I scratch paragraph four because it adds no substance
            The last paragraph does not answer my question either but is rather a confession that all the information above is your opinion.

            Seeker:

            “IMO and only mine…I think most read the poem wrong. But that’s just me.”

            Where in your response did you answer my question?

          • Onecorgi,

            Ok – your question was : “Utilize the entire poem”. Does this include folks that use the entire poem to solve a more simple consecutive 9 clue method with no math or letter massaging? Or would you consider the method I mention as being a bit shy of utilizing the “whole poem”?

            The method you mentioned…Is IMO more than just shy of utilizing the “whole poem”.

            I explained my thoughts on why in my previous comment. So I’m at a lost of what you may be a bit taken back about in y response.

            So I’ll try again. If a person is using the entire poem to find 9 clues are they not utilizing the entire poem. The only difference is ones Idea of how to utilize the poem. call it simple or complex., call it difficult but not impossible. The use of my words “utilize the entire poem” means just that…every bit of it.

            some of those thought I mentioned in my comment.

            feel free to scratch anything I say, it’s a free country, I have no problems with disagreements. I was just tossing out my opinion for discussion.

            Hope that helps

          • Seeker,

            I found a sentence that answered my question and might answer you question about why I was taken a back.

            “The method you mentioned…Is IMO more than just shy of utilizing the “whole poem”.

            Utilizing the “whole poem”. applies to your solution and not mine.

          • Onecorgi, I paste your comment, as to not confuse which I am responding to.

            Seeker,

            I found a sentence that answered my question and might answer you question about why I was taken a back.

            “The method you mentioned…Is IMO more than just shy of utilizing the “whole poem”.

            Utilizing the “whole poem”. applies to your solution and not mine.

            _________________________________

            Yep, That’s the whole point to having a discussion about the poem…To talk about different views, theories, method, idea, etc. If we were to all agree on a single theory or method, it would get pretty boring quick, on the blog.

            I’m glad I could answer your question for you.

        • The hints for me just help with confirming info. Do they go consecutive? welllll, kinda. Like the zip code, I used hints, But for the lat/long, I use just nine lines, I just call those my clues. Anybody can call them what they want, the thing is, for me, to solve every line in the poem. Calling the nine lines clues is just keeping with the theme of it all. Have to solve the poem.
          Example: when he says” all environmentalists to some degre.” To me, that’s a hint, even though it mentions degree, it’s outside the poem, it just backs-up what I already know from the poem. Which is where I got the clue from to answer that. environmentalists to sum(add)= __ degree.
          Like I said, when you feel you have everything figured out, everything falls together nicely. Hints, clues, locations, the horse he used, everything:)

          • To scratch anything from the poem, imho, is a big NO. Every letter , imo, needs to be used. Basically, if it’s not a clue, it’s a hint, and needs to be considered.

          • Charlie,

            In a prior response I used the term “scratch” I used that term in regard to a post that I percieved had no real response to my question, e.g. Scratch that & that and etc.

            In no way do I support scratching any part of the poem. If so why search, right?

  100. The Poem:

    “As I have gone alone in there
    And with my treasures bold,
    I can keep my secret where,
    And hint of riches new and old.”

    Not to denigrate ff’s integrity but rather highlight the fact that these lines can really go anywhere.if one chooses to be more wily than anticipated by the puzzle maker.
    Could the lines above mean more than what appears to the naked eye…….?

    An example: Somebody went in there alone with their treasure and can keep it there.
    “And then hint of riches new and old”

    -The treasure is at point A (“where”)
    Yet
    -Hints of treasures new and old are not obligated to point to that location

    thoughts?

    • Onecorgi,

      The 1st stanza is a fun one to decipher for me. Your example : “Somebody went in there alone with their treasure and can keep it there.”

      Falls in line with my idea that the Author maybe narrating the poem. That is not say, that is your belief. Just your use Of “somebody” can refer to another other than Fenn. The ” there” and “where” may not be a place, as much as a Place in time. Which may change the interpretation of new and old, not as a place of the treasure, but of past and present.

      Well that is my thought anyways.

    • imo, lines 3&4 are the first two clues. Deals with the seconds for coordinates.Reads “my seconds are wet and three. Must have the values of w,e,t. Also, the “my” referencing his name is part of that coordinate, Forrest Fenn. Get the letter values then read backwards. It cooincides with the next stanza. Imo…

      • Charlie,
        I’ not sure how your getting W E T from in the line 3 & 4. as well as fenn’s name being used.

        Can you explain how your idea works, in regards to fenn’s comment of no codes. what I see, seems to be a code.

        • line3= I (can/get rid of/dump) (keep) my=
          my sec r et w(here,in front)= my sec r wet= my seconds are wet
          line4= and (“h” in “t”) of riches( new and old= anagram for land owned) so line 4 = and “h” in “t” of tree= and three.
          so, lines 3&4= my seconds are 7 3 2 and 3.or my seconds are 15.
          He’s saying my, meaning Forrest Fenn, If you have the letter values, you can substitute them in his name and get a variation of the latitude.

          • sorry if not explained clearly, at work. No codes, just going letter by letter and doing what is instructed. It’s how I go about it. Turns out every line can be solved this way. Of course, imo, but in the end, everything works out. As well as being backed up. The most important thing is to get the letter values.

          • It’s like line 20-“So hear me all and listen good” = So (“he” are “me”) = some( or sum) a l l and l is ten good. Or sum a+l+l+l=10 good. This gives you a=1,l=3 or a=7,l=1.( cannot use a=4,l=2 because of the word “good” or go od) After going thru the poem again, and again, and etc…. the only correct answer is a=7,l=1.

          • Charlie ..you might want to wait till you have finished your solve and had a chance to look yourself before you share that much. Good luck!

          • OK, I see the idea behind your method as far as seeing instructions. We all see some type of instructions, whether a step by step set of directions or a guide of some type.

            This brings up another comment as to; not to mess with the poem.

            Just a thought here… When you use “secret” and break it down, you change the word to meet a need by adding a W. – and completely changing “my” to FF’s name – so the question is.
            Do you do feel that you are following the instructions of, ” don’t mess with my poem?” comment.

            I ask, because do something similar, but I don’t change anything by adding or subtracting or even moving letters, words, etc. But I do find a different useable meaning to those words and letters in the poem. And yes they involve numbers…and again, not by changing anything in the poem.

            There is a very thin line between a ‘usage’ of a word [s] and letter [s], to making it a coded message. A number “value” may not be something to give it.

            Maybe a number that is already assigned to it, would be a better way of looking at it.

            Just something to think about. Anyways, thanks for explaining your method.

          • @kat, have finished. Been out there twice, just didn’t make to the spot. It’s far to walk.
            @ seek, I hear you, I know what your saying. The “my” thing is just a hint, backup if you will. The “w” is “w” here, but I see what you’re saying, it’s a fine line, but just the fact that every line can be broken down somewhat is hard to just let go. It would be extreamly difficult to write just one line that can be broken down and have some meaning, let alone 24. I’m also not saying that the seconds are 15, just showing a different way to do things. And you’re right, don’t mess with the poem. Rule number one.
            As far as letting to much info out, if it helps someone, well why not. I can give all the letter values and that person would still have a way to go.

  101. I thought it meant “I can both keep my secret and hint about where I boldly hid my old artifacts that are now a new treasure because I went alone to the place I am about to describe here in my poem”
    I know a lot of people think the “new and old” must refer to a person from history, old mines, old stories, the pirates in his family, billy the kidd, buffalo bill, Greek gods etc….but I just don’t see it. To me, F seems like the last person on earth that would want to bury his treasure in somebody or something else’s story. He’s just not that lame to base to boldest move if his life on someone else. Its his secret, his treasure, his poem. Not some old relative, Zeus, or even Jesus for that matter. I can picture him clear as day thinking “now why would I do that? This is MY poem, and they have already had their turn” who knows….all IMO but that’s just how I see it, and hope that it is.

    • Jamie,
      I have been impress with your ideas you have presented in your comments. You seem to put a lot of thought into different methods and theories…Lets face it…that is all any of us are doing, trying to find the right way of understanding the poem. With that said.

      Could it possibly be, that the Author maybe talking about another and Himself at the same time and both are one in the same…by definition?

      • Seeker- For sure it could be that, or even two versions of himself at two different points in life. I usually think the “riches new and old” are about the treasures themselves- that also could be about the place having other riches to him then then and new ones now. I tend to waiver on the side of all tenses referring to F himself but not enough to close off or disclude the possibility of someone else involved completely. He just seems so pleased whene he refers to it a ‘his’ etc..

    • Here’s my take on stanza one…a recent article in the paper portrays Lena Dunham hiding behind what’s known as “unreliable narrator” regarding her controversial memoir. I have zero opinion on or about this so-called actress, but she did bank a $3.5 million advance from Random House, so that shows she has chutzpah.

      The funny thing is someone else wrote a memoir, which coincidentally has the same ring, the same elements, the same format as a little novel about rye bread or something.

      IMO, Fenn is only setting the scene/ giving the poem a certain flavor, with his opening stanza….

  102. Wait just a second……didn’t one of Germanguy’s deputies already find the cache ?

    • 9 clues,
      You would have to ask germanguy. But from what he told me in an e-mail, he was banned. That is why he asked me to place is e-mail here the other day. For those folks that would like to chat with him.

  103. Dal, I appreciate your blog and know it’s important to direct participants like me to stay on topic or chaos ensues. Thanks for doing an excellent job.

    It seems there are a few like me who celebrate Advent Season leading to Christ’s birth. Would it be okay to list an AdventSeason2014 email I set up (one time on the Christmas Ornament thread) for regular bloggers to receive Biblical advent messages? Perhaps that would redirect those comments and sentiments to a separate email.

  104. Look at the first page of the blog
    Look at the chest lid and study it
    Where the stain is dark it looks like something but not real sure lol
    I guess use your imignation 🙂