InTheKnow on the Rio Grande…

SUBMITTED december 2014


You all know me as InTheKnow, but my kids call me Mom, and my sister calls me Crazy.  I have almost 30 searches for Forrest’s treasure, just since I joined the search in August.  This is one of my stories, and part of my current solution.  I have never changed my solution, I only move forward in the poem.

InTheKnow - A Little Piece of Me

InTheKnow – A Little Piece of Me

I went on my first search without knowing much.  I knew Dal had a website, and so did Forrest.  I knew he said a few clues on the Today show, and that he wrote a poem.  I was inexperienced and thought I was a smart cookie.  I can figure this out easy. Any of this sound familiar?

After reading the poem a few times, I deduced my starting point.  I wondered if warm waters could be translated into Spanish, and it turned out to be a geographical place.  Agua Caliente.  If you Google Agua Caliente, you end up getting results for a Casino in California, and a few other small places, but none of them in the search area.  If you add New Mexico, you can get two different results.  I will let you decide which one I started with.

Agua Caliente translates to ‘warm waters’, and we know that Forrest knows at least a rudimentary amount of Spanish.  Also, if you live in the Southwest for any length of time, you pick up a moderate vocabulary of Spanish words.  Now, what about the halting, you ask?  Well, Agua Caliente is a warm water spring, which runs down a canyon, as a stream, and HALTS at a swimming hole.  It is actually a popular swimming hole, because the water is so warm.  So, we have warm water halting, both by name and by action.  I figured it couldn’t be a coincidence.

Now, lets go in the canyon down and see what we can find.  First, we pass the town of Pilar and the Rio Grande Visitors Center.  Pilar is a very popular river rafting area.  There are dozens of rafters going from Pilar, to the bottom of the canyon, every day.  So, we have our ‘Put In’ and ‘Canyon Down’.  As for the home of Brown…well….I skipped that one, for now.  I will figure it out when I get there.

If you follow the canyon down from the swimming hole and Pilar, you will find very little in the way of landmarks.  However, there is one bridge, called the Glenn Woody Bridge.  Glenn Woody was a business man who made a lot of money mining in the area about 100 or so years ago.  He built a bridge to cross the Rio Grande on the ruins of an old government-built bridge that had been burned down by the Apaches – twice.  All that remained were the concrete pylons, which still remain today.  Glenn Woody left the area to join the California gold rush, and eventually went bust.  After Glenn Woody went under, the local sherriff purchased his property and bridge, and used it as a fishing retreat.  Now, it is owned by an eccentric man, who leads a very interesting life – but I will tell you more about him in a moment.

Glenn Woody Bridge – that could be ‘in the wood’!  Oh boy, this is it!  The very next day, I packed my husband, my 11 month old, and myself into the car, and drove two hours from my house to the bridge.

Father and Son on the Rio Grande - We enjoy the river close to home, too.

Father and Son on the Rio Grande – We enjoy the river close to home, too.

When we arrived, I was so excited, I jumped out of the car and ran straight down to the edge of the water.  I didn’t worry about silly little things, like the fact that the water was very low because the monsoons hadn’t arrived yet, so where I was standing would be underwater for part of the year.  Also, nevermind about the fact that 100 people stop here every week to enjoy the water, walk their dogs, or to enjoy an adult beverage in the serenity of the tall grasses.  This had to be it, right?

I trudged through the muddy banks, the tall grasses, and the thick bushes.  The whole time, I swore a snake was going to jump up and bite me any minute.  My husband looked on in confusion as he and the baby ate snacks by the car.  We were only at the site for 20 minutes, and the last ten were me sulking because I knew I was wrong. There was no way Forrest was going to hide a treasure in a place with so many people.

Rio Grande River

Rio Grande River – I took this picture on a later search, after hitchhiking to the other side of it.

While I was sulking, my husband was being social.  As he sat in the back of the SUV, staying out of the rain with the baby, a truck pulled up, and a man got out with two large bags of dog food, weighing 40 lbs. each.  The truck then drove off and the man started walking towards the bridge.  My husband struck up a conversation with him.  It turns out he is the current owner of the bridge, and the property across the way.  He also has two pets: a German Shepard and a Wolf.  It also happens that these two have mated – twice – and both times had produced 7 offspring.  So, he now had 1 dog, 1 wolf, and 14 hybrid offspring to feed.  Also, I should mention that these animals have no cages, leashes, chains, or any other kind of restraints or restrictions on their movements.  He told my husband that he walked all the way into town to get them dog food.  His vehicle is not working, and he is down on his luck at the moment, so he sometimes finds himself accepting generosity from his neighbors (I use that term loosely, because I am not sure where the next neighbor is, but it is a couple of miles in either direction).  Members of the community often donate dog food to him, and give him a ride to and from town, whenever they can.  For today’s ride, he hitchhiked from a stranger.  The man also admitted to my husband that he regularly drives across this bridge.  Anyone with a shred of common sense would question walking across the bridge, and would laugh at the idea of driving across this ancient structure.  The two men exchanged pleasantries, and the man lifted each of the two bags of food onto his shoulders, and started off for home.

Glenn Woody Bridge

Glenn Woody Bridge – It doesn’t look like anyone should cross this.

I didn’t know that the wolf/dog animals would play a minor roll in one of my future searches.  I will share that story soon, if you like.  It involves a mountain lion den, and hitchhiking a ride across the Rio Grande River from a river rafting group – twice.

The 4Runner - I bought her this summer, in excellent condition.  She now has multiple deep scratches going from headlight to taillight on both sides, from offroading through thick brush, in later searches.   She also has a fair amount of cactus needles in each tire, I have replaced two of the four valve caps, and she needs a new windshield.

The 4Runner – I bought her this summer, in excellent condition. She now has multiple deep scratches going from headlight to taillight on both sides, from offroading through thick brush, in later searches. She also has a fair amount of cactus needles in each tire, I have replaced two of the four valve caps, and she needs a new windshield.

98 thoughts on “InTheKnow on the Rio Grande…

  1. That’s sad about the man with the dog food. I hate hearing about people having hard times in this world 🙁

    • I also felt sad hearing his story from my husband. My husband told me he seemed like a happy guy, and he certainly wasn’t trying to get any handouts from us. He lives a simple life, and it keeps him happy.

      I admired him for going to such great lengths to feed his animals. He walked 4 miles into town to pick up that food, and would have walked back with a 40 lb. bag on each shoulder, if not for the kindness of another stranger. I never met the man, and I already respect him.

    • Thanks! No, and they were not puppies by that time. All the dogs were full grown. My husband has always loved dogs, and knows so much about dog breeds, and he had never heard of such a hybrid.

      The man implied that trespassing on his property could be very hazardous to your health, and petting the animals seemed out of the question.

  2. An enjoyable story Intheknow, thanks. It’s a shame about the marked up car,,,, but I bet she still purrs like a kitten 🙂

    • Thanks! It was my first search, but I was hooked. My stories, and searches, get better as I go.

      She gets an oil change every 5000 miles (I use synthetic), and I wash her regularly. She purrs as quiet as she ever did.

      I promised to buy my husband a new car if I find the treasure, since I marked this one as mine.

  3. InTheKnow,
    I really enjoyed your story…I live in Rio Rancho and have been actively searching for 2 years. The entire Rio Grande Gorge from Pilar to the northern end north of Questa was also my favorite search area for awhile…I since have moved on to other locations, all within New Mexico. Your 30 searches in the past few months have put me to shame, though…I thought I was doing good with my 25 searches this year…and 5 of them have been within the last 6 weeks. Regardless, please post more of your stories…I’d like to hear about the hybrid pups and mountain lion den. Also, do you mind sharing where you live? Thanks. Cynthia

    • Cynthia,

      I live in Albuquerque, near the Cottonwood mall. I am completely obsessed. I search at least once a week, and usually twice. I searched that area 4 or 5 times, and then moved forward, but not very far away.

      Thank you for the kind words! I have more stories and pictures to share. However, my guys (and the daughter not pictured) keep me pretty busy.

      • Oh, you guys make me miss Albuquerque so much! I lived there for about six years, in the foothills, very close to Tanoan.
        I want to move back now.

    • I have always wondered if I have ever run into fellow searchers in Albuquerque. We, my wife and family, live in Rio Rancho, too. Do you know a lot of families involved in the hunt? It is so much fun. Who wouldn’t want to get involved in the thrill? We have been hunting for over 3 years with over 100 searches, all in NM.

      • I don’t know any families in the hunt, except who I chat with on here. I would love to know some, though!

  4. I wanted to follow up by saying that I still believe in my WWWH. It is part of my current solution, but the Glenn Woody Bridge is not.

    I would love to hear why I am wrong. Anyone care to poke hole sin my logic?

        • Enjoyed your story. I haven’t been in that area but sounds like a great place to visit. Many of us feel that we have a solve. Even I have several but one stands out high. Yet, I lower my head and I am home. WWWH to me, is not a physical place. It is what becomes physical. Just some thought I have. It does fit to some extent. Hope to read more about your ventures in the wild.

  5. Ojo Caliente has been one of my favorite places ever since I first heard of the search. I saw the interview on the local news and turned to my father and said “that sounds like Ojo Caliente to Me”. But, I tend to search in areas that I enjoy. Lush and green.
    That was good research on the bridge and the man there. I will add that there was once a man Named Brown that had lived in Ojo Caliente until his recent death. But, Brown is a common name found everywhere. Much Like the rest of the features in the poem.

    • I will admit, I still assume it is Brown Trout. There are a LOT of great fishing spots between Pilar and Velarde. Even though the road is only about 20 horizontal feel from the river, once you are down by the water, you don’t even hear the traffic.

      • We have found three other Brown’s in this area. I just can’t get beyond the capitalization of B in Brown to believe it involves fish. 🙂

    • I am confused about your connection with Ojo Caliente and Pilar. I am thinking about the Ojo Caliente along 285 at the hot springs resort there. It is on the Rio Ojo Caliente. Pilar is on the Rio Grande on the Taos highway. There is a ridge between them. Is there a different OjoCaliente I should be looking at?

  6. Great adventure.
    The bridge looks scary, I don’t think I would cross it.
    Warm Waters is something that halts. Something that stops. Something u take down the canyon. This is a deep thinking poem and I think deep. 🙂

    Have a Merry Christmas thank u for sharing 🙂

  7. I loved your story. It’s awesome that you could take your husband and son. I miss Albuquerque. If I lived there, I’d probably search every weekend. 🙂

    • Thanks, Mindy. I do search every weekend and some Wednesday mornings. But the weather may shut me out for the next week or so.

  8. Enjoyed reading your story and seeing your great pictures…..Agua Caliente Canyon and the surrounding area is a favorite search area for many. I searched that area a couple years ago but couldn’t make all the clues fit without stretching them too much. At one time I wanted the rock slide of 92 to have something to do with the solution.

    Hang in there and keep looking. It may take a local like you that can thoroughly search an area to find the chest. Keep your eyes and your mind open; remember the greatest obstacle to discovering the truth is being convinced you already know it.

    • Thank you Goofy. I appreciate all the advice and encouragement I can get. I actually think my only advantage is being local, and that it only costs me 7 hours of time and $50 in gas for each search. I also don’t believe I know anything, I just go where the clues take me. I have not had to force any of the clues in my current solution, and I constantly try to prove myself wrong.

      I hope you guys can give me a new perspective on the poem. I am always open to new ideas, and try to see things as others see them. That’s why I welcome the challenge of defending my solution.

      • Hi IDK,
        Great read, it’s nice to see someone who doesn’t stretch the clues to much and start creating codes and the like.
        How long ago was this search, and have you developed any further additional solutions for the other references in the poems, i.e hoB or Blaze

        • Hi Danny. This search was in early August. I have developed further solutions for how far to walk, the blaze, the tarry scant, and more. I also found out that Fenn’s additional clues apply.

          I hope I am not stretching. I hope that through sharing I find that I am going in the right direction, or you guys help me see the flaws in my logic.

          I hope you like my next story just as much.

        • Hey guys — just a little tidbit, not sure how important: a “blaze” is the face markings of a horse.

  9. In the know
    I like your WWWH..did not know about that Canyon. I learn something new everyday.I did not see a mention of the Blaze. What was the Blaze?

    • At the time, I thought I would see the blaze when I got there. I thought there would be a marking under the bridge or something. Boy, I was a silly girl back then.

      I have a few more stories to share, but I plan to share my current blaze in the coming stories. Sadly, I am not great at remembering to take pictures. I have several, but some places were so awesome, I completely forgot.

      I actually plan on sharing my whole solution with you all, once piece at a time.

      I am either going to find that treasure soon, or I won’t. But, I am moving away from Albuquerque next summer, so that will cut me out of the hunt for good. And, if I don’t find it, I think someone should.

  10. Thanks for the nice story and pics. I am also in the New Mexico camp & keep coming back to Pilar as something important because of the Hemingway connection, but I can’t work it into my poem solution. Sadly, it’s an 11hr drive for me so I can’t search that often.


    • Clinger,

      If it was 11 hours for me, I would not have searched as often as I have. As it is now, I can leave really early, and get to my search spot after first light. I get about 2 to 2.5 hours to search, and then I have to head home. I usually arrive just as the baby is about to wake up from his nap.

      If I didn’t have 2 kids, a husband, 4 dogs, and 7 chickens to care for, I would camp out there for a week and just search like a mad woman.

      But, for now, it gets me out of the house once or twice a week, and that does wonders for my sanity.

      • ITK,

        I’ve just been doing a summer pilgrimage. Stay for week, then back to Arkansas.

        Realistically, I think this is enough because I am also of the opinion that boots on the ground is NOT required, only a firm understanding of the poem. I’ll concede that boots on the ground is of course extremely helpful in that understanding, but I think one can figure out the poem without physically being in the places the poem refers to. Currently my understanding peters out at “tarry scant…gaze…go in peace” so until I come up with new ideas to check out, trips are more entertainment and vacation oriented.

        • Clinger,

          I wish I was smarter, and Google Earth wasn’t so deceiving. For me, boots on the ground has been the way I have understood some of the clues. Many times, I have searched hours in places that no 80 year old man could access. Only after trying to figure out how to scale down the 100 foot waterfall did I realize I was in the wrong place.

          Boots on the ground is the only reason I have so much to my solution. Sometimes, you need to be in the middle of nowhere in order to find your way.

          • in the know,

            I agree with you.. boots on the ground have helped me alot with the clues. besides, what fun is it sitting in front of the computer all the time…. can’t smell the sunshine like that…..I have enjoyed my boots on the ground… every step 🙂

          • Yes, maybe I need more boots on the ground to understand the last few clue’s. Maybe it’s a clue how to smell the Sunshine??? That would be amazing to say the least…:) I just keep putting one foot in front of the other… What do they say… One step at a time… At this point it’s all I can do…:)

    • Yes, and no. The ski peaks all have snow, and are getting more tomorrow. The lower peaks don’t have any left, but they may accumulate some after this storm.

      • thanks …”in the know” I was thinking around 10 k feet.. I may be a little late for that…..

  11. I see Agua Caliente now. Turn off at Pilar and go north on 570. There is another bridge that crosses the Rio Grande. To the south of it is an island in the river. Across the bridge on the west side of the river is Agua Caliente road with a few homes. Then it goes up into the hills. It’s a good spot that fits the poem except for one thing. Would FF leave his body there? I don’t see it, but I’m just looking at a computer map.
    There is another Aqua Caliente just east of Abiquiu. Considering the features of that area, it is worth another look also.

    • I do not think Forrest would leave his body there. This is only the beginning of where to start. I will not say where I am searching now, but I will tell you that it is within a 30 mile radius of my starting point.

      To get to the swimming hole, you would drive through Santa Fe, heading to Espanola, then follow Highway 68 just past the Rio Grande Visitor’s Center, to the swimming hole. It is not easy to find on the map.

      Also, this is one reason I think many people haven’t used this as a starting point. When you type in a destination to Google, it gives you the closest result geographically. This can come into play with researching.

  12. InTheKnow – Thanks for a great story and the New Mexico photos. I’ve passed through NM by car and plane but never enjoyed hiking or drinking in her beauty. You are a lucky gal to live in close proximity to your search area and enjoy it often.

    • Lia,

      The next time I spend an hour pulling cactus needles out of my butt, I will ask you to remind me how lucky I am. 🙂

      I do enjoy it so much. I enjoyed it long before I heard about Forrest Fenn, and pride myself on knowing lots of little quiet corners of my beautiful home.

      • ITK – cactus needles, burrs in your socks, skinned up shins can be worn proudly as badges of honor in this chase, but they do chap your hide! Maybe we should wear cowgirl chaps. I’ve thought about it…then reason returns and I hear Mr. Fenn saying don’t go anywhere an 80 year old can’t go.

        I just haven’t figured out if he made two trips from his car to a horse and then rode once on a horse to the hiding spot. Then you could be on a trail designated for horses rather than foot traffic.

  13. Thanks, InTheKnow, I enjoyed your sharing.

    In Arizona we call those scratches, “Arizona Pinstripes.” 🙂
    My two 4X4 vehicles are well decorated.

    I have enjoyed 3 trips to New Mexico, searching 5 different areas. At present my trips are on hold until my daughter returns my FF books. I need them to confirm what I think is the key I have found in the poem.

    Wishing you good luck, and fun!

  14. Great story ITK. Thanks for sharing. You’re lucky to have family with you while you search and to be so close. I am looking forward to hearing more of your travels. Does anyone ever think that warm waters would halt in Agua Fria?

    • Which Aqua Fria? I do use the Agua Fria district of Santa Fe as part of my solve. The water well pumping stations end about there. So, from there I take Ancha Canyon (77/Camino del Tierra) down old Buckman Road to Buckman. It is a small volcanic peak. On the south east side of that peak it is split, forming Diablo Canyon. On the canyon floor is a dry river bed with occasional rows of boulders that are difficult for me to get around but possible for an 80 year old with two legs. Niches and crevices are everywhere. It’s an exellent place to leave your body with a treasure. I may be wrong but it is a fun place to explore.
      On the north side of Ancha Canyon is Otowi Peak. It is a good two and a half hour hike. I posted a picture of the lava tube up there, in photo album six.

      • Hi Michael, Thanks for your response. The Agua Fria up past Taos and Colfax. I have often wondered if this is wwwh but drove by it sticking true to my original solve for that short trip. I still could have driven by here and ended up at the same spot for my solve.

  15. Thanks for sharing one of your adventures with us intheknow. It’s always interesting hearing about others adventures and their interpretations of the poem. Really enjoyed your pictures too, particularly of your husband and child and that scary looking bridge! 🙂 Good luck with your future searches.

  16. InTheKnow,
    Great Search Story! Move back to Rio Rancho, NM from Lubbock, Texas and my wife and I have enjoyed many searches in Northern NM. Last search in the Red River area we walk up to with 75′ of a mountain lion and got some great pictures!!!

    Glad to see you are enjoying time with the family making memories that will last forever!

  17. JC1117 – nice poem about wind, and all creation bows its head in reverence:)

    Too bad windsurfer isn’t around for that poem. He would have enJoyed it too.
    Night all.

  18. Nice spot, nice story. I am sure other searchers have been there or close by. Thanks for sharing your story on Dal’s blog and good luck in the future…That’s great that you are able to get out so often.

    • Ken,

      Very recently, I was out searching alone in another spot, when I saw two men in a pickup truck drive right past me. I ducked behind a tree, and was only 8 feet from them. I could hear them talking, because their windows were down, and I was sure they were searching for the same thing I was.

      What they didn’t know is that there is no place in that area I haven’t searched – 3 or 4 times over. I laughed, and headed home so they could search in peace.

  19. Intheknow:
    Very interesting story and I was particularly affected by “the wolf” part of your story. I too worked very hard at that Aqua Caliente angle using the Miss Ford Spanish angle to point to the Spanish translation of “warm water”

    I created two stories about my results – I found an old mining claim belong to Juan A. Brown that I found really interesting. I certainly can see how you and many other love that starting place.

    Here are my two stories – complete with an interesting ending that many will should be able to understand now with a certain release of information form a certain imaginative searcher.
    The Wolf Returns:
    The Wolf Returns II:

    May this will spark something inside you. Good luck!
    The Wolf

    • Wolf,

      You are so close! There is absolutely an X, and you are a lot closer to it than you think. I know the cemetery in your picture. I have passed it many times.

      I had read your story before, and I reread it just now. You mentioned the Blaze in your story, and I don’t think you know it.

      You are smarter than you think.

      • lol “smarter than I think”; If I could only figure out how to think. I found as we approach Xmas, the nativity scene and the FF’s Christian references are probably more applicable to this place now. When I first wrote the story it was more in fun as we were being entertained by Jay Ackam’s Alien Uterus story at the time. Speaking of which he recently released his “hidden treasure picture” finally. I guess it was more of an “alien dragon uterus” or something like that!

        Sorry Dal please don’t ban me!
        The Wolf

  20. Nice story InTheKnow. I believe I have given the same man a ride twice. Once from the bridge and once to the bridge. He works just as hard to feed his family. Living off the grid has its pros and cons. I do like where your search is taking you :-). Keep pushing. I like meeting searchers and If you would like to get together for a meal sometime, I would love it. Of course, spouses and children are welome to join. I’m guessing you live in Corrales or off of Alemeda. Cottonwood Mall is twenty minutes from my home. If we meet up, you will see my “pin-stripped” truck! I wont look for a comment here, but I do keep up with The Nine Clues post/thread. Hope to hear from you. I have met Cynthia, and Moon Shadow as well. Both proved to worthy competition. Oh-oh, I’m starting to ramble… ttfn.

  21. Really enjoyed your story and it sounds very promising. Yes, I believe we have all at one time gone places that were considered too public though and later thought” Forrest would not have left his bones and treasure here”!! It is a place that is his heart and rainbow together for his final resting place. Envious of you getting to go on searches twice a week all of the time. Good Luck Keep us informed of your finds and travels. Send more pics and write more stories. See you in the funny papers…. MS. Girl

  22. As clueless now as ever maybe I should just had to Plano? Still connecting dots just north of granite. Nothing like being a little backwards. Thanks for sharing those beautiful pictures. Out of the know?

  23. Deeper research on this area really proved it worth a search for me. There are a ton of things I am afraid to mention about this area that excited me before our search two years ago. I was certain we would find it in this area and just below Pilar.

    • I was sure of that too, at the time, but I have since moved forward in the poem, and now search elsewhere.

      My only advantage (I believe) is the ability to come up with a theory, then test that theory in real life, disprove it, and then move on to another one. Basically, it has been a process of elimination, but I think it is working.

      • Intheknow, I could not have agreed more. This example has moved me to another place.

        I have boldly made the statement that Forrest set this up to be the “thrill of the chase” and in that spirit we must all fail first and learn where the clues are, otherwise success on the first attempt does not accomplish the theme of “thrill of the chase” IMO
        The Wolf

  24. That young boy I once knew who wanted d a ride I shall head south from there t this I know watch out for the wolf that I once loved true

  25. you’re not the lady I once knewshe worked it hpI’m heading for a visit where I was a month yesterday there is water this I know should I get wetits a simple yes or no


  27. Dear InTheKnow,

    Your solve is a good start, shows a lot of imagination, research and insight, however you must “think outside the box”. The Gorge Box starts at that part of the Rio where you were searching, so to us Kayakers, and rafters it is affectionately called that.

    Imagine from there it is too far too walk, if you are correct in this starting point ask your self if 80 year old men go jumpin from boulder to boulder in the gorge with a 42lb chest?

    If you are also familiar with the part of ff’s poem that says no paddle up your creek, well everyone in New Mexico has used this to refer to Arroyo Seco, which is outside the box and too far to walk, just like Questa.

    Remember this important # it is exactly 90 miles to the border of Colorado from Santa Fe. His brother Skippy tragically drowned in 90′ of water furthermore the trip to Taos Mountain with Olga’s ashes was 90 miles too, 45 up 45 back. If you are not convinced look at the postmark on page 51 “TTOTC” it circles his old home address 141 Main which equals 90 when subtracted, and oh yes all the other postmarks nearly 20 are on even # pages? ff controlled that, so what are the odds of that being accidental? Statistically millions to 1? Perhaps more importantly, who is in the photo on page 51 and why? Perhaps a degree was earned? or 90 degrees was inferred? Tricky yes?

    Throughout the TTOTC and especially in the first words penned by ff he says life is a game of poker, happiness is the pot, fate deals you four cards and a Joker and you play whether you like it or not. May be a clue to Las Vegas? No Las Vegas is south of Santa Fe right? 8 miles, but 8.3 miles north at 90 degrees is a courious town called Waterous nm coincidentally Forrest Lake is there. It is on the old Santa Fe Trail Too. Can you hear me now?

    If you are wise to his tricks, ff is the Joker, the trickster and any important hint or clue must contain and element of this “Simon says derivative” it is the key to ff’s logic. This idea/image ff follows is affectionately referred to in Pueblo Lore especially during feast days, festivals etc at the pueblos as the cunning “Coyote” Trickster, and Joker Creator of the world .

    Yes, InTheKnow, I agree that not only does ff use elements from Spanish, Native Amerrican folklore, Archaeology, and terms from the Old west like “Tarry Scant” “drawing nigh” etc. but even his new book TFTW which he admits has an important clue, or two could it be perhaps in Chapter 45 where the mountain men shoot at a $100 dollar bill and one hits Hamilton in the head? Well just who is on the $100 dollar bill??? Tricky Mr ff. If you or anyone would like to correspond with me my email is

    tt your ff trickster friend

    PS Did you know that the Old Santa Fe Trail use to start in Franklin MO? Before it washed away? What was all this talk about Philidelphia? Independence maybe?

    • Life is a game of poker, happiness is the pot, fate deals you four cards and a Joker and you play whether you like it or not.

      Perhaps this chase is a game of poker.

      Five card draw. Each player is dealt five cards and decides on the value of their hand with a joker. Then each player may discard up to 3 cards (4 if your last card is an ace or wild card, in some circles) and get back (from the deck) as many cards as he/she discarded.

      The pot is the chest.
      The joker is Forrest.
      We are each left with 4 cards to decide what to do with. Do we keep them? Do we take 4 more? Perhaps Forrest leads us to 4 or more different solutions having nothing to do with finding the chest as the book was written after he hid the chest. Perhaps we should go back to the poem…..just a Sunday evening mental meandering….

    • More mental meanderings….TT, I believe 2 degrees were earned from Temple High from page 51 ( father and son ). The stamp on page 51 is also the only one on the right side of a page, all the others are on the left pages of the book.

      Anyone else ( non NM searchers ) have any thoughts about heavy loads and water high in relation to Skippy being unable to lift off his air plane from Lake Hegben? The plane was too heavy ( heavy loads ) for take off from water at that altitude of 6000 feet above sea level ( waters high ) even in “15” miles worth of water runway…..

  28. Lynn, you have learned well and spotted something few will ever notice, because you read like an author and only ff the Joker (we agree) had control of those details.

    Now imagine if you will that Americas most famous writer, and a certain very famous Brown came from the same town named after Hannibal and one was a Riverboat Captain and the other one was unsinkable, now that state is famous for rivers and it is also where the Old Santa Fe Trail originates. Now Molly also lived much of her life in Leadville, Colorado and there is a canyon famous for raftin just below her home so look at her as the Unsinkable Molly because she survived the Titanic and was indignant that her boat did not go back and rescue more survivors. She became very Rich and Famous. We call him Mark but Sam fits him better.

    Yes if you put in below Hannibal Mo into the Old Santa Fe Trail at Franklin or is it Old Santa Fe Trading Trail ? Perhaps it’s a Blaze? I digress, well perhaps there is a Book and Movie theme at work here?

    What year did ff contract cancer? When you are on most therapies for cancer you don’t necessarily feel like reading, however watching a movie is easier, now lets see …what year was that? 1987 ish and what other famous movies were popular 1987 to early 90’s I can think of a few that were filmed right here in NM and did’nt those Ranchers from Texas move their cattle to Montana, or Yellowstone or near, well actually it was filmed her in the Moreno (Brown) Valley, NM funny how that Joker ‘Gus” in Lonesome Dove seems to be trickin us again.

    So which Brown is it ff? After all Colorado is in the middle just like you were in the family and its 90 miles away from SF.? But it is about 45 up to the Trickster creek just below the Moreno Valley so which do we put in? The Santa Fe Trail, Joker Creek or the Arkansas?

    tt your ff trickster friend and guide.

    PS ff I have given up on the Cleveland Browns, they won’t make the play offs even with Manziel they might do better to move the team to Cleveland NM or somewhere below.

    • Very Interesting TT. You may just convert me yet. I will have to investigate more. So, more mental meanderings but this time about the original portrait of George Washington “The Athenaeum”. In this portrait George is facing left and on the bill he is facing to the right. OK, I looked!~ On page 113 of the book FF writes that when the bill was made Georges’ portrait was reversed facing him to the left. ….

    • PS: Billy the Kids famous tintyped image was also reversed making him look like a lefty. Makes me think about the picture on page 39. Why is the one with all 3 of the Fenn children labelled just June and Silver and I wonder if Forrest is a rightly or a lefty and if this picture was reversed or if the boys were cropped in as someone else mentioned somewhere on here….. I should have paid more attention when I met him, but he is so darn disarming 🙂

      Forrest looking or facing left in most of the pictures. I should see if he is doing this 85% of the time….

    • I like the “Lonesome Dove” idea, as the last drawing at the end of TTOTC is the dove on the moon . I know the area you looked quite well, as I know “Billy”, the owner of one of the rafting guides in Pilar. I often thought the merge of the Taos Rio and the Rio Grande right there could be the “So why is it”…SOUTH Y IS IT. And check this out. The arroyo Petaca ( Pee TALKA’)…hence up the creek, heavy loads, etc. is just up the Rio Grande from Pilar towards Carson. That heads towards the Carson Reservoir ,(water high). Keep going your in my hunting grounds around Petaca, Las Tablas(home of the golden frog), and Tres Piedras (Tres U R East). I think way out side the box. But your pick was g a good one. Both the Arroyo hot springs and Stagecoach hot springs are up stream from Pilar. And in 2007, I saw a dead beaver someone hit that measured 4 feet head to tail. That was one huge Brown! But if you look in the Las Tablas graveyard (GREY V YARD) , you will see that the biggest headstone to belongs to.Georgias R Brown.
      Plus…Tablas means “table or plank”. Every photo of the chest is on a wooden plank table.
      So good luck , merry Christ Mass ,and maybe I’ll see you there in 2015 !

  29. The point is well taken that when ff is in his Joker (avatar) personality we should pay attention, the problem is always like this, deciding what the message from the Trickster is, for example; in chapter 45 of TFTW the $10 bill was won how many times before the big burly mountain man successfully hit the center of the $ 100 bill and claimed the prize. Was the message Hamilton, who ff said was shot in the head, that could not be cause it was Franklin on that note? Was it Franklin? Or was it simply 90 again or 120 which is the true message?

    Opinions anyone?

Comments are closed.