Looking in Montana and Wyoming…Page Two


This page is now closed to new comments. To continue this discussion please go to the latest “Looking in Montana and Wyoming” page.

Please click on the comment balloon below to add to the discussion about looking in Montana and Wyoming.

Please do not use this area for any other discussion.



630 thoughts on “Looking in Montana and Wyoming…Page Two

    • Stan, I will disagree that we are clueless, FF has given us at least 9 clues and several good hints. We just have to figure out how FF interrupts them.
      CT, its a possibility that he didn’t hid it but there is no proof either way, unless somebody finds it. I don’t think that he would risk his reputation by not hiding it. It is also possible that someone has found it and has keep it a secret so that they won’t have to pay taxes and have everybody begging for money. Just my thoughts.

  1. Looking forward to a trip to MT and WY – it can’t come too soon for me! I keep checking road closures in YNP and the live cam at Old Faithful. The roads are still closed but from what I can see on web cams, there is not a lot of snow this year at about the 6000 foot elevation.

    • Its bee a long time since we went there but it’s beautiful. I also remember some narrow roads with some low overhangs, so watch out if you have a tall vehicle like a motor home or trailer. Good luck.

    • I lean towards Montana being the location of the chest (or the state that begins with CO. (shhh not to be discussed here ;^)

      I would like to tour the state from just north of YNP to Glacier National Park.

      • UKEN2IT, I haven’t been able to find it on the maps but Russell Osborne talked about a cave on the SE side of a perpendicular rock as they were traveling on the Rock Fork, I think it is called Rock Creek now. Sounds like a good place to hide something. Read The Journal Of A Trapper. You can download it free and search “cave”

  2. I always thought that Forrest said you could take a flash light because its in a cave. Good Luck UKEN2it….Are you going hunting? I have read Journal of a trapper a dozen times!

      • Oh Sorry Rickinflorida, Forrest said something about a flash light and taking a sandwich…I just thought maybe IMO…he said that because in my my opinion…MAYBE its in a cave…..:) Your right! I dont think he ever said that….

        • And later he told Dal that you only needed the flashlight if you were going to be out after dark. I do not have a link to that statement but I do remember the conversations around that topic in the blog after Forrest wrote that.

        • Lou Lee,

          no need to be sorry…I just do not want you to base your search looking only in caves. πŸ™‚

  3. Some one asked about that cave in journal of a trapper I think its easterly of Cody. I think there s a hwy maker. Anyone know for sure?

  4. Is anybody planning on heading to Montana or Colorado in the next few months/weeks? I’m trying to maybe get some lists together as we could get group discounts on airfare/hotels and hey it might be neat to have fellow searchers in the area for dinner or laughs or whatever. No need to socialize if you don’t want, but coordinating our timing could save some $$ πŸ™‚ Please let me know if you’re interested, I think this links to my Facebook and you could inbox me there- if I get at least 8 or so on either I could set up a private group page and post various schedules and options and we could see if anything works for ppl. Just a thought, no need to commit to anything at all, I don’t sell travel or anything- I just see group discounts a lot and would love to even know a ‘group’ to possibly take advantage of some of them and travel cheap. just considering the ‘power in numbers’ and figured it might be nice to explore. Lemme know.

  5. “Ode to Joe” TFTW page 140 has a picture of FF, his wife and Joe Rivera fishing in the Gallation river in Montana.

    “The flows of the river also slow significantly once the Gallatin River leaves the mountains. Due to slower flows and heavy irrigation use, the water in the Gallatin River on its lower stretches frequently become quite warm, hampering trout reproduction and putting a lid on feeding activity.” If the water is warm in the lower section then warm water halts, and is cooler upstream being a good stream for “brown” trout as well as “rainbows”. The river also flows through several “canyons”. Can’t say that it meets the poem 100% but Forrest appears to have had a close relationship with Joe.

  6. Well, I’m giving it two more days of searching here in my hidey place. If it’s not here, someone found it and didn’t tell. Aarrrgghh!

      • Well, I may or may not be be wrong. Indecisiveness could or could not be what brought me here. Am I right or wrong? I really should be spending more time looking, but then again, I’m still enjoying the journey.

          • Have you any idea how much land BLM has? I am the proud owner of over 200.00 of BLM topo maps. That’s at 4.00 each and that’s just the ones I specifically asked for. I’m going to have to build a bigger boat for the rest.

  7. Two women rescued on Beartooth Highway. They were on a closed section of the highway. Both 24 years old, one from Mass. one from Iowa.

    • People like that give Fenn nightmares. Anyone gets hurt being STUPID he will get the blunt of it. People like that really worry us. D….. sure do not want to ran into anyone like that. Sorry Lord i am working on bad language.

  8. Most of that highway does not open till late May or later. They sound like searchers….I would Love to go to this area, I have not been since I was a small children, Beautiful Country….Hopefully they are OK….If I was sure of my location, Nothing would stop me…

    Lou Lee Bear

  9. A snowdrift stopped the two women from going any further and they were lucky to have been found so soon. Note to self, don’t go past the closed road signs this time of year…

    • Amen they will end up owning fines for endangering themselves and rescue people. DUMB DUMB DUMB!! !!!!!

      • The car got stuck because there was so much gold in it it got high-centered. Either that or they needed more weight over the drive wheels. A shovel comes in handy or even use the floor mats to move the snow out of the way. Put some pine branches under the wheels for traction. I had to load up my pick-up with rocks to get out of a ditch. Nice to have a set of chains for front wheel drive. If you can’t see, better wait it out. One time coming home from skiing in a white-out. We could barely see the taillights of the car in front of us. Every so often the line would stop–that was the lead car that went in the ditch, so the next car would take the lead. Lucky the line was long and there were enough cars ahead of us so we never had to take the lead.

    • Very interesting POG. I think there are a lot of potential spots around that area and west of there. Some spots in Medicine Bow too. I wonder why no one has mentioned that area much. I think you should do a whole layout on your blog with pics of your pup. SOOO CUTE!!!!

  10. “Mamas don’t let your babies grow up to be a Cowboy”. πŸ™‚

    I guess u might be ok u “Outlaw” πŸ˜‰

        • LOL, I’m with POG on this one. New Mexico is definitely where it’s at. Everyone go there now.

          • Yeah, ‘fair’…maybe like equal, even, level, divided, right, unanimous, allright, tied etc….

            …or was it ‘fair’ like a carnival or circus? There’s always a hidden key to the games there…hard to find a ‘level’ playing there, ya know? either you have the advantage or the house does…usually the house unless one knows the trick. I guess that’s how it ought to be at the carnival though…argh.

  11. In the video he makes a point of saying it has been 5 PLUS years. IMO this means that he hid it in 2009 at age 79, not age 80. Or very early in 2010 before May, while the snow was still on the ground in most places.

  12. i know some people do not want to hear this, but I just read another article on bear safety. When people use guns to defend against a bear attack, 50% of the attacks result in personal injury. There is usually very little time to respond and even marksmen are hard-pressed to stop a bear with a firearm. The article said bear spray is easier to use.

      • Mike and VRS .. and bear spray is about 92% effective in stopping, and less injury when attacked. YSNP has a link to bear safety as well as many others, just search bear safety or attack. I believe the study was done my the Alaska wildlife dept.

        The following is my opinion only, but if you happen to come between the cub and the mother bear I don’t know if anything would stop her, again this part is strictly my opinion.

      • The Article is titled “Bear spray vs. firearms in a bear conflict: Which is more effective?” It was on the KTVQ website.

    • Bear spray? When your sleeping in the back of your car a bear is at your window and you have the best big can of bear spray money can buy, you roll down your window just enough to spray the bear point blank in the face just to watch him back up three feet and shake his head a couple of times then come back still trying to get in your car you’ll wish you had a 44 magnum.

      • Straw, what people forget about bear spray is that its only effective on a windless day or if the slightest breeze won’t blow it back in your face.

        The past two search seasons I’ve hiked in grizzly and black bear country…and realized how stupid it is to think you could ask a charging bear to move down wind so the spray hits his face. Everyone should deploy a hit of spray to understand how quickly it debitates a human. The less expensive cans deploy everything at once, so you if you miss first, you are lunch meat.

        • Anna,
          That happened in Alaska some years back. It was definitely a learning experience. We were going into the middle of the Brooks Range in northern Alaska for 3 months and were going to rely on the best bear spray we could find for protection. That bear proved that there is no replacement for no less than a 44 magnum. In all the years of being around bears we were able to notice the different personalities each had. In 20 years of being close to bears only once did I ever need to use the gun. Full charge 12 feet away and and The 44 worked, with bear spray the bear would have had a nice meal. I’m not a hunter and I don’t enjoy shooting animals but I also treasure life.

          • Quite an experience Straw. I can’t imagine how quickly you must think and react with a bear charging; glad you are still with us. I like what Forrest said… he would like to see a grizzly but not meet one.

            While I know it’s ecologically important the grizzly population has returned to MT/WY over the past 30 years on endangered list, have to say I loved being able to hike in the 60-70’s without worrying – excepting Glacier park where they have always roamed. My brother flies to a remote Alaskan lake to fish beside kodiack bears. The photos show him within 30 feet of several huge bears – also fishing. he said the guides weren’t worried, but stupid is as stupid does.

  13. This is for all the ones that have emailed. No, as I stated in my blog.. I did not walk or search the entire middle fork. As far as those of you that asked on the coordinates of where I searched.. I don’t have a clue. Thanks for the questions, but I just can’t reply to them all. Ask here.. I’ll share. πŸ™‚

  14. A few reasons why I believe Forrest would have hid the treasure in New Mexico.

    A. He would want to be physically close to the chest, for many reasons.
    B. He has spent most of his life in New Mexico.
    C. He has made his fortune and livelihood in New Mexico, and may have felt a debt of gratitude to this State.
    D. A great deal of his archaeological work has been done in this State.
    E. He must have known in advance the revenue TTOTC would generate for the New Mexico tourist trade.

    And if I could afford to live there, I would be there in a New York second, not because of the Forrest Fenn treasure, but because of the natural treasures this State holds.

    • πŸ™‚ sharpsburg,

      Thanks for your comment on reasons on NM.

      I have another thought or different opinion on your
      A. He would want to be physically close to the chest for many reasons.

      Based on criminal profiles approach,
      1. ff has said he has BURIED 28 of 40 Bronze Bells & Jars in NM. Serial Offender.
      A. The Distance traveled by a criminal can be based on the value of a Target.
      …..meaning that the potential reward dollar value results in greater distance a criminal will travel from his home.

      2. ff has established the Search Area Boundary for the Crime Scene.
      …..U.S. – 4 states, NM CO WY MT
      …..Northern Boundary Canada
      …..Southern Boundary 8.25 miles North of City of Santa Fe
      …..Western & Eastern Boundary of the 4 states
      …..And at the Elevation Boundary High 10 k, Low 5k

      Basic Layout of Perimeter

      3. the Value of the treasure Chest is a consideration
      A. the Bells & Jars are worth less in dollar value and are Buried close by in NM
      B. the Chest value exceeds that of any Bell or Jar value, and thereby the Chest can be a much greater distance from ff home & not even in NM.

      Just a thought on Crime Scene Boundary’s,
      I don’t rule out NM at this time, there is the possibility it is there, along with the possibility it is in Co WY MT.

      Crime Scene Investigations consider many things,
      A. Location
      B. Cause of Death
      C. Method of Killing
      D. Position of the Body
      E. Time Factors of committing the Crime
      G. Reconstruction
      H. Theory – excludes all others to focus 1 direction based on belief

      Geographic Profiling
      Different Sites & Same Criminal

      1. Entrances
      2. Exits
      3. Pathways, an indirect route [not an entrance or exit] to & from the crime scene
      4. Sketch’s with Measurements, Maps
      5. In View Areas, Plain Sight
      6. Out of View Areas, Hidden Secret locations
      7. Photo’s
      8. Zones of Possibility
      9. Set Forth Key / Legend
      10. Compass Orientation
      11. Linkage – Suspect to Crime Scene

      Search Pattern
      1. Grid
      2. Lane / Strip
      3. Spiral

      Type of Crime Scene
      1. Indoors – less containments
      2. Conveyance – transportation
      3.Outdoors – Hardest
      Exposure to the Elements- containments
      a. Rain
      b. Wind
      c. Heat
      d. Animal Activity

      LOGIC of REASONING ; Methodology Scientific Research Investigation
      STEPS #1 Identify the Questions & Define Key Variables.

      IMHO, IMO post qualifier, The Search 4 ff’s original planned Crime Scene [Missing, Bones & Chest- Death Investigation]

      πŸ™‚ The Golf C&CS
      πŸ™‚ match [legal standard of proof], strike, spark, blaze, fire, light

  15. He was 58 yrs old when he was told about the cancer and at that time he knew just where to hide it, which he did at age 79 or so. Go Figure….. that leaves a 4 states open…. but I don’t agree with NM or Co. But thats fine.

    • Recently he told a reporter 5 plus years hidden that means he hid it at age 79.

  16. Ok on the comeback. just one last thing….

    Forrest has been and seen most of the world. But yet when he retired from the Air Force, he chose to live in New Mexico. No doubt the art community in Santa Fe was a influencing factor. However he did choose to live in New Mexico.

  17. Dal or Goofy,

    I think the New Mexico group want their own New Mexico page.

  18. Thank you CJ. Sorry, guys. I just thought there might not be one because it seems like the NM people are on this page talking about NM. Didn’t make sense to me. If I was looking in NM I would be on that page instead of the WY page. Perhaps, they didn’t know about the NM page?

    • Hi Musstag, sent you an email. Didn’t say anything but I’m the one who does the locating which some call Dowsing. I have some different types of equipment, some electronics, some passive. i practice every day, well about 300 days a year. That’s what it takes.

  19. Well, I’m jumping ship. Will be boarding me boat that sails to Montana. Yep, I’ve joined the Montana band wagon. Am leaving again for the western big sky country the 27th if any of you armchair searches have a solve. I think I found something….again…Aarrrgghh!

  20. POG… armchair searchers? Hope you found some value in my NM post, it could work elswhere. Maybe that vague “I have gone alone in there” aint so vague anymore. Cemetery and cockpit — Sepulchre and Big Sky maybe? Maybe not. Good luck wherever.

  21. I went to check out my favorite spot yesterday. The water was too high to get where I needed to go. That and I stumbled on fresh bear scat (alone and without bear spray, yikes). Maybe high water is why Forrest says July is the best time to go? In any case, there is something I found on GE that begs some questions.

    I dream of the day I find treasure (maybe I will and maybe I wont) but it sure would be nice to not have to hear questions from tourists that make me wonder how they’ve survived this long.

    In case anyone didnt know, there is no elevation at which deer turn into elk, or elk into moose, you cannot swim in Grand Prismatic and I would not advise feeding the bears. No, that is not what animal crackers are for. But if anyone was interested in seeing wildlife in the winter, we most certainly bring them inside where its warm and you will be disappointed. (Really people?)

    Ha. At least I know my fellow treasure hunters are smarter than that.

    • Brea-
      Where did Forrest say that July is the best time to go?
      I have never heard him say that. I have heard him suggest that winter is not the best time to be out in the mountains. Other than that I have not heard him proclaim any month is better than any other.

      • I don’t remember where I picked that up, I’ve been through so many posts and videos… however I’m fairly certain he did unless I made a mistake taking notes which is always possible

  22. Is anyone going to be around West Yellowstone the last week of June and first week of July?

    • James, been there done that already. I still think I was right. just blind sided myself being too focused on one item.. email me at mcmulgl@yahoo.com for some of my other thoughts on the area if you’re interested.

  23. Teen Taiwanese exchange student gored by bison in Yellowstone Park Friday! She turned to take a picture and a bison a few feet away raised it’s head and seriously injured her. What were these people doing a few feet away from a grazing locomotive? Caution will save lives out there…

  24. Well, I have a solve that contains answers to the clues to which I can find no online (blog) references. That both excites me and scares me. Either the uniqueness indicates I am on the right track, or it indicates I’m a complete idiot.

    Rather than rushing out to search this time, I am going to sit on this one for a few weeks until I either realize how lame my solve is, or I find myself still feeling confident.

    I can tell you, that for the first time, I had a huge smile on my face when I cracked one of the clues; cracked IMO anyway. It was profound, and seemed impossible. So When I later found it on the map I was blown away.

    After failing to find the chest in the past, I approached the solve in a different way. I put down the book and closed it. I did not search maps for possible associations to the clues. I simply looked at the poem (studied it) and solved for each clue. I did not try to associate the answer from one clue to the next, or any others for that matter. Putting away the map also prevented any geographic associations.

    Once I felt I was finished, I then started to try finding the individual solves on the map without forcing anything. All but two fit in a relatively small area. It then took weeks to resolve the other two. Had it not been for that one “profound” solve mentioned above, I would have dismissed the area and started over.

    So here I am, confident enough for the first time, stating that I have a good/great solve.

    Experience (mine and everyone else’s) tells me that I will not find the chest, and I will be eating crow with my buddy Kevin very soon.

    Scott W

    • I just want to start by saying you won’t be eating any crows given your positive attitude and humble approach…

      I think you did the right thing by solving each line independently; but personally, I use the map to at least get a feel for the lay of the land and to let my imagination do some work while I sleep. I use gmap4– awesome.

      The reason I post now is to encourage you not to give up or be disillusioned in case you don’t find it. The most important thing is to be certain about the first clue (says FF; and it’s wwwh IMO). If you get the first clue for certain, then an empty-handed trip becomes a recon mission that prepares you for your future refinements.

      Every time I return home I eventually wish that I had gone just a bit further down that trail or up that hill to know what was there.

      • Joe,

        I can’t mention which clue it is (especially what it is) otherwise everyone would immediately know where I am focused.

        This particular clue solve was so “off-the-wall” that I seriously doubted it would be on a map. Not only is it on the map, but it is in VERY close proximity to my WWH. I at least told you that it is not the WWH clue. πŸ™‚

        I wish I could share more, but I just can’t. I started to write Forrest about it, but I deleted the email. I’m not going to risk compromising it..

        Statistically, I am guaranteed l not to find the chest and I am prepared for that.

        I plan to go soon. Just need to let it simmer for a few weeks before I do.

        I will tell you that I can find no evidence of any other searcher, on any blog, looking in this location.

        I also made an association (a relatively loose one) as to why this area might be special to Forrest, and it is not an association with his childhood adventures.

        I will share the solve, successful or not, when I return.

        Anything I post here is my own opinion, and is in no way intended to lead searchers astray.

        Scott W.

        • great scott…
          Found a lot to like about Valles Caldera (online), maybe you’re going to take another look? Not sure how things will work there once the hand-over takes place, though it should make it more affordable. The idea of Forrest riding one of the shuttles into the preserve, fit nicely, I thought. Wish you minimal luck!!

          • 9clues,

            Yes, I have been to Valles Caldera. I am actually disappointed in the handover to the park service.

            At the time I went, last June, I was able to drive my own vehicle in. They allow(ed) just 22 fishing permits per day, and as long as you had the permit you could drive your own car in.

            As luck would have it, we were the only ones there “fishing” that day. Seriously, we did not see another soul the entire day.

            It is truly one of the most beautiful places I have been.

            The fishing was moderate as the trout are still recovering from the mud run off from the fires a few years back, which killed the them by the thousands. And they spoke easily too. It took a lot of stealth to sneak up on them without being spotted.

            Scott W.

        • Hello Scott- sounds like your “profound” clue solve may be a word that is key! Just because you’ve not read of this solve doesn’t invalidate it. The “few” will never speak of it. Good luck, Emmett

          • emmett,

            Maybe “profound” was a little too far out there as a descriptor. Let me change that to “completely unexpected”. πŸ™‚

            I’m sure others must have found this as well. There are simply too many analyzing the poem for this find to be unique to me. Perhaps they didn’t solve the one clue that I did and they dismissed it; I don’t know.

            Perhaps I am just plain wrong. That is the most likely possibility. πŸ™

            Regardless, I will have fun. I’ll be packing the fly rods and the camera equipment, so I will at least be guaranteed a great time.

            Scott W

    • Your conclusions here seem to have been obtained the same way I got mine… I too am going in with the same confidence. After I read through the poem again and again, then looked at maps- buth current and historical… I couldnt be more amazed at how simple it could be.

      I almost thought about flying up there as soon as possible to go get it, I was that serious about it… Maybe I’ll hop in my Cessna so I can get there before you. I’m wondering if our solves are that close…

      • You have plenty of time. I had to delay my trip.

        I got rear-ended the week before I planned to go and I couldn’t pull the trailer behind the truck. The good news is I didn’t have but one cancellation fee I had to pay and it was just for the first night at the campground.

        So, you are on notice. You have until the end of August to beat me there. πŸ™‚

        Scott W.

        • PHEW. Well if you want, email me and let me know of your spot and I can check it on my way out πŸ˜› My trip is in a few weeks. Driving 52 hours total for 3 hours of hiking should be worth it… You looking in YNP?

          • Sure – please check my spot. The chest is located behind the… πŸ™‚

            Not looking in Yellowstone proper, but let’s just say I’m going to attempt the Cut Slam while I’m in the area. So that should tell you I am at least in the Yellowstone ecosystem.

  25. Good deal Rickinflorida, I’m fairly certain I have the location narrowed down. I e-mailed Mr. Neitzel to see If I could reach Mr. Fenn, I see others saying they have corresponded with him. I will probably just write a letter. I’m caring for my parents, so I have just small windows in which to search. Anyway, happy hunting everyone!

        • The world needs more nice guys like you, Todd. You seem to be very cordial and well-spoken…I reckon. With all the contention and hostility around it’s refreshing to see someone as polite and kind as yourself. Keep it up.

          • Well, thank you JC. I will keep it up. I suppose I am a product of my environment. There are a lot of good people here.

    • Hi Todd, I understand about not having alot of time, I cared for my mom till she died and than now I am caring for my sister who is 24-7. Wishing you Great Luck on your hunt and enjoy every second. I also am looking in Montana and Wyoming, and waiting for better Weather.

      Lou Lee Bear, from Whoville!

      • It takes some doing Lou Lee Bear. I am fortunate they were always there for me and now I have the opportunity to give back. I wish you the best with your sister and good fortune in your search.

  26. Thank You Todd. Your Kind! Family is so important. Your Parents are lucky to have such a good son.
    Best Wishes to you,

    Lou Lee Bear

  27. warm waters halt website has a new theme. For those interested, nice Montana sign…

    • Thanks for the heads up charlie… I see the Montana sign. Is Montana your search state? I think there hints in there. IMO

      • P.S. I forgot to say to all the Searchers going out this summer, be careful out there and pick up after yourselves. “Give a hoot and don’t pollute” and “Only you can prevent forest fires”.

      • What is the WWWH website? This is the first time I’ve seen it before. Trying to make sense of the info there.

        • It’s a website that tracks users and puts cookies on your computer. The same source that exploited a dead girl on a title to the gold website. You can flip a website for cash once a lot of people view it…which is easy to make happen by exploiting the chase and wasting good people’s time and energy who search. Just IMO (and also in the source codes) you might want to remove cookies once you go and I might advise against “pushing the buttons” for them. People shouldn’t be treated as Pavlovian dogs as a means to add up all the clicks for someone else’s ends. But be a monkey if you want to. Again- just IMO

          • Thank you Jamie. Really appreciate the information. I will clear Cookies from my browsers now.

          • I will say that they do tend to post some pictures and allusions to some hints that are sprinkled in the book, (like the nickle, the frogs eye in the window, Coco, the RIP peace sign grave, 40, the radio etc) those hints (and ‘hints’ in general don’t by definition) wouldn’t lead anyone to the chest, only the clues do. They seem to do so as a means of toying with people, and their countdown is usually off by at least a few days. Even now. Once again also exploiting dead people. Those clues won’t help find the location or anything- my best guess is they’re probably throwing them out there hoping to generate a discussion so people will try and figure them out or offer some hints/help and they can laugh everyone for getting distracted by anomalies anyone can find right in their own book. It’d probably be easier just to ask outright or admit the truth instead of taking advantage of and toying with people’s intellect. I guess we all have our own standards of character though. I’m shocked there’s not a single summer shoe by the door too. We’d all have to be amazed and click even more!
            This is all just
            IMHO, of course.

          • Well, we can’t give the newbies just one point of view, can we? I am a firm believer that every possible bit of info you can get is important, and, honestly, foolish to discount so easily. Figure out for yourself whether or not you believe in it or not. Who cares if someone else is making money. Yahoo for them!
            No offense intended, jamie. πŸ™‚

          • No offense taken at all, diggens- I totally agree, and think grabbing every banana is important. I guess I just grabbed a banana once that taught my to look at the tree too. I mean it may well be full of GREAT bananas…but if the roots are rotten and you get sick later you’re body will usually remind you that you DID see those roots, understood they looked different and had a fair warning. If the intention is to flip websites and make money all the power to it…I just prefer to pick my own bananas from more natural sources than ones that feed of my energy or take the time to interact rather than attempt to surround me in vague clouds of mystery for selfish reasons. The poem is a big enough mystery cloud for most, I just don’t see any benefit inviting someone that obviously 100% wants to add more confusion to others for their own selfish intentions…the same way I wouldn’t buy a great watch from a peddler on the street with questionable origin. I guess I’m just funny about mixing karma like that. To each his or her own though.

          • Thanks Jamie. I’ll add that the entire feel of the web site is pretty gloomy. Not at all reflective of the lore that Forrest himself has created around the chase.

          • Id actually say it IS somewhat (actually suprisingly) REFLECTIVE…but not in the way a stout hearted person would go about it, or for the reasons they would do so. It’s degrading to others intelligence and using them as pawns in a way. I don’t know. I respect anyone wanting to remain anonymous…but it’s not so genuine when they’re taunting people at the same time. There’s your 100% guaranteed red flag “this person lacks character” warning sign right there. Two faced people are like normal sucky people wanting twice the attention at the expense of twice the people they can effect.

          • I know I’m going to take some heat for this but IMO the wwwh website is definitely from Forrest. The only other possibility is the person responsible has found the treasure chest and they are toying with us.

            Here’s a thought, as far out there as it may be. There has been so much debate about wwwh and it has literally been tossed around and around and around with no definite understanding of it after 5 years.

            “What if” Forrest created wwwh website as another means of helping us past the issue. Like he’s saying “here’s wwwh (literally the website title) so recognize these other hints and move on”.

            The countdown could be a set amount of time he’s giving us to understand before he gives up on us and just gives us the clue of what wwwh is.

          • I don’t know Ramona….the countdown is off by a bit, kinda like maybe the person who put it up doesn’t understand how the calander works…or maybe went off some literature they read but wasn’t properly written by the ‘reporter’ in the first place. Just IMO….and F wouldn’t use a tracker that watch where you came from and where you go. Personally, it seems like he has more worthy things to do than exploit dead people like they did with the halli stuff too. Same owners.

          • Ramona, I disagree and don’t believe for a second that Fenn has anything to do with that site.

            I don’t have a problem with someone trying to make a buck, and if gullible folks like you want to believe it that’s your choice. I can assure you that site is only created to generate hits for someone to sell. Just a small amount of their metadata that proves my point:

            Alexa Meta tag verification
            meta content=”l9xyMQoFI3nJinYBpgwokW-4-xk” name=”alexaVerifyID”

            Bing Meta tag verification
            meta content=”BCAA9C389EFAA86806B9B8164B486AB4″ name=”msvalidate.01″

            Google Meta tag verification
            meta content=”nsRl7lyqZSCR6_MNsWspRymxXtTG-JpT2ICv0m7gqfU” name=”google-site-verification”

            And that’s not all of them; they have so many trackers running if they ever did get any hits the site would implode from all the trackers. You should clean your computer after visiting the site.

            And they are heavily into Facebook Open Graph Meta Tags:

            Facebook’s Open Graph protocol allows for web developers to turn their websites into Facebook “graph” objects, allowing a certain level of customization over how information is carried over from a non-Facebook website to Facebook when a page is “recommended”, “liked”, or just generally shared. The information is set via custom META tags on the source page.

            meta content=”en_US” property=”og:locale”

            meta content=”website” property=”og:type”

            meta content=”Home – Where Warm Waters Halt” property=”og:title”

            metacontent=”http://wherewarmwatershalt.com/” property=”og:url”

            meta content=”Where Warm Waters Halt” property=”og:site_name”

            This is just a small sample.
            It is quite obvious this site is a ruse and has no other purpose than to generate hits and track the users…….

            But like I said if you want to β€œBELIEVE” you go right ahead. I always wondered who bought that stuff on late night TV. πŸ˜†

          • Ha! Told you I was going to take some heat on this one. Jamie, you know you rock with me. I’m sending you a message on fb. And Goofy, gotta love you. Like Jamie said you always give us the smack down in BOSS style. I didn’t understand a lot of the stuff you posted about meta this and meta that but I take your word for it.

            Still there’s a couple things on that website that have never been discussed here. And they would break this chase wide open IMO. Thanks for your patience and I won’t bring it up again. =)

  28. it’s just tough to discount when one of the hints given was so strong that only the person hiding the chest, or the one that has already found it, knows.

  29. But, the code is the code, there are trackers, obviously. Makes one think of why someone would go through so much b.s. just to be deceptive. It’s best to just discount the whole site, I just know people follow it so I posted. Any noobies out there, don’t put weight into it. IMO.

  30. But Charlie, how do you explain that you know then? Or other ppl like us? U think maybe the hints really are just hints? Even the biggest ones don’t help with the location at all…only the poem does that. Right? Or no?

    • Sorry Jamie, you’re right, I don’t know. My bad. It’s just there was a hint that gives the area, for my solve. I should have said ,”for my solve”. And you are right, how do I know. I don’t.
      In my opinion, only the poem will get you to within an 80′ x 100′ box area. That is the coordinates at degrees, minutes, seconds. It’s all the hints and back up info that pinpoints exactly, what to do and where. That, of course is my opinion.
      As far as the website, I also do not know. I found the coordinates of 47.645 -122.298, pretty fishy. A highway in Oregon with “I’m a fool for you” spray painted or something on it? Really? Not Forrest… But, “Yankee Hotel Foxtrot” 6 times, hmmmmm.
      I wouldn’t say it if it wasn’t backed up with the poem, In fact, any post I feel good enough to post I believe I can back up with the poem.
      But you are right Jamie, IMO.
      I do feel that the majority of hints just get you close, but a few pinpoint. The blaze ,IMO, will show you the spot, so those few “pinpoint” hints become just backup info. I’m left with extraction. That I believe f has given a hint. And it’s needed. Just like his little Captain Kidd story. Whoever finds the chest could always just say they dreamt the whole thing. Can’t remember if I found it or not.
      For me, the 2 times i’ve tried to reach my spot i’ve come up short. I feel now that even if I made it, at least the first time, I wouldn’t have been able to get it, if it was there. I think the flashlight and sandwich comment is a hint, it might just be take a sandwich if you get hungry, but it also may be take a switch if you want to extract. Again, IMO. I reserve the right to be totally wrong.:)
      I think i’ve got a good, rock solid solve. 24 lines of the poem. But i’m not going to say it’s right until after thorough search. But it’s good, we’ll have to see.

      • I should have said only the ‘clues” will get you within a 80′ x 100’ box. Sorry.

        • Just read what Goof posted above and well, there you go. Pretty much enough said. I’ll give this to the creator, Yankee, Hotel, Foxtrot is pretty good. I know where you are at…..But WYALL could have given you that. Better to add Forrest Fenn + William Fenn.:)

        • I’m just saying that when all they are doing is repeating Forrest’s hints in a different context it might make them look like they are smart. Can you honestly tell me from what you see that you think they have put a SINGLE 2+2 together? Lol. I say HA! They just repeat stuff to take advantage of people. It’s a build in psych response for you to recognize a pattern that you know. Don’t sell yourself short Charlie. They don’t even know the pattern just copying symbols

          • I remember hearing something about, Forrest said that it was an interesting site..
            He never said he was or wasnt in the background. However he could be doing the same thing that he does over here, and giving the site owner stuff to put on there. It is obvious that FF is pretty good at hiding things. And honestly, after reading what Charlie just wrote, I am thinking more now that ff is on that site, somehow.. But that is just me..

  31. Hear me all and listen good, there is a lengthly radio show you can enjoy if you click on the radio on the site http://wherewarmwatershalt.com

    “Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows!” – The famous saying of the crime-fighting vigilante, The Shadow.

    • 23K – that site has F’s signature all over it. did you find all the owls in lower right, and x placement NW of blaze, alligators, andf fen? yes, my healthy imagination gets me into all kinds of trouble.

  32. Can anyone direct me to the correct site to check records of all airplane crashes in Montana? I’ve checked private and government sites but come up empty to quantify a specific plane crash. Thanks.

  33. Hello Montana…Thought I would bring some California sun with me. Heading out tomorrow.

    • πŸ™‚ Good luck to you charlie. Keep us informed on how your search is coming along.

    • Happy hunting Charlie! Cheers to a good look and hopefully a great find! May the force be with you–Believeland is counting on a great quarterback this season πŸ™‚ stay loud and proud- from all of us here in Ohio.

    • good luck! Hope you have a chance to check what we chatted about. If not, I go soon.

    • Dude! Not even going to hit 80 today in the Austin area. We are typically swimming by May 1st, and no one has yet to dare put more than a toe in the pool this year.

      Scott W.

  34. Hey all, thanks for all the well wishes. This blog has some pretty awesome people. Back now, mosquito bites and all. I’ll post a solve as soon as I can, with pictures. Still up in the air about the area, but found nothing except a beer can and a fire pit. Place looked alot different then Google maps.
    Jamie, my ego can really go for some “buck-eyes” and a gallon of milk.:)
    (They’re sooooo goood). Will post soon, Mount Haggin ( the end I sever draw ing NIG) has alot of snow, cool pics.

      • The country time creamery up on 303 has the best buckeyes in the universe. Jams and jellies too! If your low I could sent you out a shipment. Nothing beats home grown at the orchard- just send me your address!

    • Hi charlie, Glad your back…mosquito bites and all. Anxious to see you upcoming search pictures and story. Got a question for you, but I’m almost afraid to ask… What are buck-eyes?

      • Lol, and a Brown’s fan. Wise, they are sooo good. Have a good friend from Ohio, his mom made these, I don’t know, fudge, with other things, that were round, like a “bucks” eye, (deer, whatever.) I had one, immediately ran to the store, got milk, and just munched out. Oh myyyy.
        Jamie, I will definitly send you some info and money for some. Could probibly sell them for $10 each here in California. They made me an Ohio state fan for sure…
        Better give some info before Goof reams us on off topic.
        If you’re into the alpha/numeric thing, Forrest Fenn= 1311332 1322 = 14 8, pages in the book. Add his brother: William Fenn= 7311373 1322 = 25 8, 148+258=area code…:) Snake school, babysitter (by sitter) wink,wink…

          • I like it, time to research…Reminder to all searchers, Don’t forget the bug spray like yours’ truely. How do they do that on Naked and Afraid?
            Wy is it for All to seek = wyall=311 2313 7 1 1 = 59711= zzzipp. My it= my wy = 3-7-77.:)
            Come on Forrest, just tell everyone it’s in Montana…..

          • Jamie,
            Your cool breeze to Charlie sure cooled him off and now he is talking numbers again. Bring back the buckeye conversation!

  35. For those curious, real quick. Warm Spring Creek, across the street from evergreen street, by the church. Into Fifer Gulch, to the tree line pass the sagebrush flats, to the no trespassing gate. Mount Haggin drawing nig h. To Lower Hearst Lake, roughly 500ft. from the trail, Google maps you can see pic, icon roughly 200ft. from spot. Lower Hearst Lake use to be called Frog Lake. Just below Little Rainbow Mountain. The pic on Google maps looks nothing like the place now. 8008ft. 8 upright, 8 on it’s side, 8 upright = 24. Clues that give coordinates = lines 3,4,5,6,8,20,22,23,24. Stanzas 1&2= 26 or 8, Stanza 3 = 0,stanza 4 = 0, stanzas 5&6 = 89 or 17 or 8. 8008. First letter values of those lines = 36 or 9, total words = 63 or 9.
    Latitude = 22 , longitude = 23 or 4&5=9. X=24 or 6. X is…xisix or 9. 69.
    It’s a long walk, Meadowlarks all over the place.
    The WWH website hint = Yankee Hotel Foxtrot 6 times = YHF = call sign of airport in Hearst Canada. Anaconda = “Anac” on “da” = Anacda = anagram of Canada.
    Environmentalists to some degree= 44+2=46 degree.
    You have to find OUT, to learn where the first clue is. = out=372=12=3, line 3= first clue.

  36. fellow WY searchers when are you all going out to search? lurkers it’s your chance to post too…..don’t say where, just say when! πŸ™‚

    • Species: Rhus Trilobata
      skunkbush sumac
      fragrant sumac
      three-leaf sumac

    • May I suggest washing with some Technu? Great for washing off poison oak, ivy and sumac oils. Just remember to wash everything that may have oils on it or you will just spread it around. I’m starting to itch just looking at it.

      • Raven –

        It’s not poison oak – it’s skunkbush sumac – just like Wise on said above.

        It was used by the Indians as dye, medicine, and primarily basket making.

        • Since 169 was most likely searching in The Rocky Mountains, I would tend to agree that it is skunkbush sumac, but it does look a lot like poison oak and is in the same family. Since an allergic reaction can occur to any of the members of that family of plants if one is sensitive to the oils (as I am), I personally would steer clear of them! πŸ™‚

          • I agree cjinca: The leaf looks like skunkbrush but the new growth looks like its a vine and not brush leading me to think of poison oak. I too am very sensitive to the oils and would error on the side of caution. I would note that not all sumac is harmless either.

  37. 169 – if you are searching above 5000 feet, which everyone should be…**neither poison oak or ivy grow above 4000 feet**

    Stinging Nettles are the only bothersome plant I can think of in WY/MT and do grow above 5000 feet, but are not as poisonous as poison ivy or oak.

    photo of NETTLES https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urtica_dioica

    Poison ivy:
    Usually has three broad, spoon-shaped leaves or leaflets, but it can have more. The phrase, “Leaves of three? Let it be.” may help you remember what poison ivy looks like.
    Grows as a climbing vine or a low, spreading vine that sprawls through grass (more common in eastern states) or as a shrub (more common in northern states, Canada, and the Great Lakes region).
    Often grows along rivers, lake fronts, and ocean beaches.
    Has bright red leaves

    • RE: NETTLES, they grow near old human habitations. If you are looking around an old cabin foundation or barn, watch for them.

      “The presence of nettles may indicate the site of a long-abandoned building. Human and animal waste may be responsible for elevated levels of phosphate[10] and nitrogen in the soil, providing an ideal environment for nettles.” Wiki

  38. Out of all the states that the treasure could be in don’t you think it would most likely be in New Mexico? I mean, that is where he chose to live after being in the Military. I was in the Army for 17 years and traveled extensively as did FF and when a person gets out of the Military and finally settles down he or she does so because that place holds something very dear to their heart. I really don’t think that Mr. Fenn would hide his treasure away from the place that he treasures most, New Mexico. Also, Mr. Fenn had planned on spending his last moments at his special place before he died. In order to do that he would have to be pretty close to it in order to get there quickly and without any help or anyone knowing. Just a thought.

    • Todd –

      Do you know how many places FF has lived and how many times he has moved?

      I should think Texas would be the most special – but we all know he didn’t place it there.

      The flinging himself over the TC and dying – does not have to be considered now – as he is not dying. He said he re-wrote the poem many times.

      Many things FF says are inuendos – or some of the truth – but not all the truth. Do you really think he would fling himself somewhere? Probably not. But if it’s the spot I have in mind –
      it’s a good place to go on to the great banquet table in the end.

    • I drove by it this past week. Will be sending my adventure story to Dal this week or weekend.

  39. I do Long Range Locating. I live in Billings. If you have an area the cues fit but you can’t find it, I might be able to help. GOLDLRL at ya-hoo.

  40. I’m interested in the Tom Miner Creek Basin. Has anyone searched there to your knowledge?

    I’ve looked through many many–not all–posts and can identify only “Carolyn” and “captpappy” as having ventured there.

    This is my first attempt to locate a search area. Be gentle.

    Thanks, enjoy, take care, respect the wilderness, Joseph

    • I have been searching in the basin all summer since it’s so conveniently located basically out my front door. If you have any questions, feel free to email me. romeomax29@gmail.com

    • Joseph, if you want to talk about or ask questions or something, email me at csan2000@aol.com and I will help you however I can. I love that area and hope to go back again sometime. My favorite spot is a very cold ice cave that I couldn’t find the entrance to.

    • Wow… I have searched that basin three times and I think you’re on to something there..

      Great first attempt. I didn’t get up there until attempt number 3.

      My advice is take lots of pictures and try to notice as many things as possible.

      • For all of you –

        Imagine FF being Houdini –

        Perhaps he built a box of mirrors – then you could be looking straight at it and not see it.

        Best of luck to you all………………

        • Messr Into… I believe you should focus your efforts towards using the word (I believe you already know is key) in a way that solves the puzzle.

          • Muset –

            Perhaps I was not clear in what I said. I think he could have placed the treasure inside a box of mirrors –

            That would explain how many are going past it.

          • Thanks Into. Very sporting. I will consider that with hope for a happy solution.

  41. Montana hiker “killed” in YNP. Officials said grizzly bear in the area of Elephant Loop near Lake Village. No details on this.

    • The guy was a Park employee. Signs of multiple bear activity in the area including bedding sites.

      They say travel in groups of three or more and make lots of noise and carry bear spray.

  42. I have a potential solve in WY but no way to go there. Anybody interested in learning more?

    • Hi Bold, I am outside of Yellowstone until tomorrow and have exhausted all of my theories. I’m interested to see how yours compares to mine!

      • Here you are, good luck!

        WWWH – Hot Springs Park in Thermopolis WY. Hot Springs = Warm Waters. Park = Stop = Halt. Seems too obvious but we know the first two clues can’t be too obscure they have been solved before.

        Thermopolis is one of the towns marked on FF’s map, a major tourist stop on route to YNP. Most importantly of all it’s a big fly fishing area and surely there is a chance FF fished here as a boy on his way to and from YNP?.

        Although Thermopolis in under 5000ft. That is not necessarily a problem: if the poem takes you up.

        Canyon Down – Although the river flows north so down would usually be in that direction, down on a map is South. And to to the south of Thermopolis is Big Horn Canyon – there is no canyon to the North.

        If you travel South on Highway 20 for 4 or 5 miles (too far to walk and no obvious trail to walk on), you reach β€˜the wedding of the waters’. This is a spot where the river changes name, Big Horn to the North, Wind River to the South. The Big Horn River is home to some notably big Brown Trout, often referred to as Big Horn Browns. This is a much lauded but relatively unknown fly fishing spot where fishermen will β€˜float’ down the river. Could Big Horn River be THOB?

        It is home to Big Horn Brown Trout. Big Horn Canyon is also named after Big Horn Sheep which are Brown. Just up river from here is also the Wind River Indian Reservation- which was home to β€˜Camp/Fort Brown’. A military fort since renamed. Is the capitalisation of Brown because it refers to more than one thing?

        I think too that a Wedding of the Waters would appeal to the romantic in FF.

        The Wedding of the Waters is a place where you can β€˜put in’ to float down river when fly-fishing – back towards Thermopolis. In fact it’s the southerly most (furthest upstream) before reaching reservation land. The putting in spot in within a couple of hundred feet of the road – did FF mean that searchers (by being on that road) have been that close to the third, vital clue rather than the treasure its self?

        Just downstream and across the river is ‘Memorial Cemetery’, the final resting place of some railroad workers, which isn’t marked on the map – just referred to by a rough sign on the river bank. To traverse the river you can’t be meek, and the cemetery is a scary place – not for the meek either – it’s also a place where the end (death) is nigh.

        From there Red Rock Canyon – a dry river bed (so no need for a paddle), runs under the overhead train line (which carries heavy loads).

        If you were to walk a few miles west into the canyon – in the direction of the Owl (owls are of course wise) Creek mountains, then the rocky outcrops on either side tower to just over 5000ft (could it be the altitude clue was a bigger clue than thought – that helps lead to a specific location, rather than a general area?).

        The rock in this area is red and there appears to be a few cliffs in the area – could one look like a blaze? Or else there are supposedly a number of petroglyphs in this area does one mark the spot? Whichever we know that we must climb to the top of one of the hills to get over 5000 feet. The area is not heavily wooded, but there are some trees, is there a stand of them on top of one of these hills that appears as a wood from the bottom of the canyon?

        When you reach the top of the hill it will no doubt be colder than in the canyon, and you will also be looking over the Wind River Indian Reservation (home of the Brave). The hills have a number of drainage gullies running down them – a place where a chest might easily be hidden without being fully buried and the chest will likely to be wet (especially in spring when the snow melts – what time of year was that interview held?)

        How did an old man manage this journey? There are back roads just to the North that would take you very close without having to cross the river and traverse up the canyon etc

        Main problem, is this private land? I think it might be but can’t really tell.. is it a problem, or the reason not to tarry?

        Ir is of course probably miles of the mark – but might inspire you, or other to look in that area..

        • bold, hunch here. I searched that area using you exact logic. my blaze was Owl Creek, right outside Thermopolis. maybe I walked right past it looking over my shoulder for a landowner with a gun. maybe.

  43. Anyone in Montana right now or gong to be there next week? I will probably be going there.

  44. I live in Billings.

    I looked at Bold’s solve and if you recall Forrest said a few people had been within 200 feet of it had solved the first two clues but went past the other seven. All Bold’s clues are below 5000, so I just can’t get them to line up. At least from I I’ve read it the other seven clues need to be above 5000 feet. But I could be wrong.

  45. The County that the chest might eventually be located in….could be significant; if only to my son and I.

    In any event; reading truly takes you to special places ~

    • SLF,
      The County, City or location name may be the ‘too far to walk’ yet not too far. Example: Say there is a city near YNP called “York”. York is definitely too far to walk as in UK, but not far from wwwh. IMO and fictional

  46. Thank you for a wonderful explanation, uken2it; It’s appreciated.

    You see; It is with my eyes that I walk.


    • Just got into West Yellowstone last night. Drove around YNP today to get our bearings and to visit Forrest’s childhood favorite spots. Have you searched SW Montana extensively?

    • have you inspected the Tom Miner basin? One of the things I like about it is that Buffalo Horn Pass connects it with the Gallatin. Might be a place a couple of teenagers looking for adventure could wind up……lost.

      • Yes, we looked there briefly. Basically, couldn’t see Forrest wanting to rest his bones there. We looked around the Joe Brown Creek area and well as Jardine in Gardiner. Will be posting our adventures with pictures soon.

  47. YNP plans “Safety Checkpoints”. I didn’t read the article but you don’t have to be no Miss Cleo to figure this one out as to who they are targeting.

  48. Well, I’m searching from Zimbabwe! I think it’s in Wyoming. When I have located it πŸ˜‰ (if I cannot get a visa to USA) I may have to recruit one of you to pick up the chest for me. πŸ˜‰

    • Sassy-
      Long way from Wyoming. Folks here might be able to help. Just ask when you have a plan. Delivering it to Zimbabwe might be more difficult….just thinking out loud…all those federal regulations in both countries…but I guess we can worry about that later.

      • Ha Ha! Dal, I got so ‘starstruck’ that YOU had replied to little-old-me, that it’s taken me this long to respond! And I still don’t know what to say. Anyway, after lurking around your blog for months, it’s great to be more ‘active’ in the search. πŸ™‚ I’m working at this poem nearly every day, it’s beginning to feel like working on a Rubiks Cube – I’m hoping that if I just keep ‘moving things around’ (on paper or in my head) it will lock into place. (Ah – see what happened there – IT will lock into place?!). Hmmm…..

        • Hey Sassy,

          Lurk no more, jump on board and chat away Sassy. I like the thought of an out of towner perspective Sassy. Someone from the outside looking in, type view. Sassy… I like saying your name… Sassy. But I digress. Join in, we don’t bite… much.

          • Thanks Seeker. Well, as I sit here in Harare I think my perspective would certainly count as an out of towner. πŸ˜‰ Which state are you looking in?

  49. Just read an article about bears are at a much lower altitude this year because the berry crop, etc. was not that good this year. I’ve read many reports of bears near human dwellings this year. One here in Billings had been hazed with rubber bullets but kept returning. Today it was in a school playground so they tranquilized it then decided to euthanize it. The article said the bears become more aggressive once they find the easy food sources. Be careful, they are very active this time of year.

    • Seems like almost every day now I read about bears near human dwellings here in Montana. Today it was a black bear attacked a woman in the Kalispell area, but I’ve read about two or three others since my last post. This time of year the try to put on fat so they are constantly trying to find food. They don’t even sleep much. Of course you are more likely to get killed by a hunter’s rifle. LOL WHich reminds me of a story I heard about a guy near Butte, Montana. He shot a deer and grabbed it’s front legs and hoisted it up over his back like a backpack. Somebody shot him!

  50. The Beartooth Highway out of Red Lodge is set to close Monday Oct. 4 or possibly earlier.

    That lady in Kalispell died. The bear broke in her house and attacked her.

    • That lady had been feeding the bears – not a good practice. Now is not the time of year to be packing a lunch either – a bears smell is so strong – they can smell your nice picnic from miles away. Be smart – be safe.

      • Bears love the smell of just about anything…hairspray & perfume, the smell of bacon left on your hands from breakfast.

        According to wildlife biologist Casey Anderson (bear expert) they can smell you 2-3 miles away if you’re downwind.

        Wear Hunter’s orange or bright colors so you’re not mistaken for game by human hunters.

          • I personally carry a gas assisted 12 gauge shotgun with high brass slugs. It will fire 5 slugs in 5 seconds or less. I think the bear can smell it because so far they haven’t even come close to me!

  51. I was just looking at the Yellowstone map and I saw that much of the park boundary is a trail. If you drive north out of West Yellowstone on 191 part of the park and trail is on the west side of the road. When I worked at Parade Rest resort, 35 years ago, we would take the customers by horse back over to the park across Grayling creek and 191. Then down Gneiss creek trail. You can probably pull over the side of the road and walk down the trail 500 feet without any problems.
    As for me, I noticed that just inside the West Yellowstone entrance is the south end of the Gneiss creek trail and the Madison overlook. That could be the marvel gaze. All the other clues in the area are well known.
    So, maybe a short walk from there would be worth it.

  52. Yesterday I had a close encounter with a Grizzly and an older cub. 30 yards over my shoulder alone while hunting (deer and elk not treasure) 2 miles south of the Bob Marshall Wilderness close to Ovando MT. The dry summer and still mild temperatures have the bears still out feeding so treasure hunters who can also still be out beware. Glad to see a thick coat, fat grizzly that close but more glad not to be one of this year’s statistics.

  53. The Gallatin Range in Montana was named after the longest serving U.S. Secretary of Treasure (OK, Treasury)

  54. With the storms rolling through SW Montana looks like this years TC hunting season is over (I might be wrong since I’ve never been there). 5.5 months to go, feels like 5 years. Everyday I sit bored at work looking on google maps at that canyon and creek, they are beckoning me. 1000 miles to get there, I can hardly wait. πŸ™‚

    • It’s definitely over, we just got 6 inches in Bozeman, probably close to 12 up in the mountains. Most National Forest roads are closed, which really limits where you can go.

        • Thanks for this link, I just looked and like I figured there’s snow everywhere. I’ll look again in April just before my scheduled trip.

          • Your chances of finding ground without snow cover are slim to none. Worse yet you might get hit by storm. Late May much better.

      • Please do not risk your health and safety by going out to search this late in the year. Bozeman was not so bad last night but Paradise Valley got DUMPED ON. I will update with Gardiner/Mammoth looks like in a few hours. Remember, all roads in the park except mammoth to cooke city are closed to vehicles until spring.

    • not to be flippant, but, closer to what? Canada? All the states that “border Canada” are equally “close”. North Dakota, Montanta, Idaho, and Washington all have approximately 49Β° as their northern boundary, which is the southern border of Canada there.

      • Joseph,

        Sorry for the confusion – Specifically; the border between Alberta, Canada and Montana.

  55. NWS: “A complex storm system will bring heavy snow and wind to eastern Utah and much of the Colorado Rockies Wednesday into Thursday. Elevations above 7000 feet could see one foot or more of snowfall. Travel will become hazardous. Winter Storm Warnings are in effect”.

    Time to call it quits for a while. A chest full of gold won’t keep you from being a victim of the weather. Play it smart and stay safe.

  56. Drove through the Gallatin canyon yesterday. Actually just the lower half to Big Sky Ski area. What a beautiful place. I mean the canyon, but the ski area pretty nice, too. So much traffic on that road. Soon as I got on that road I started thinking about Forrest walking to Bozeman. “Not far, but too far to walk.” Forrest Gump walked all the way across the US. Got me thinking it has some other meaning.

    • Forrest said something about a redneck family in an old pickup from Texas is who he envisioned finding his treasure. That ought to tell the people who have all the convoluted solves that they are going about it all wrong. You how it goes, “Kill the messenger.”

    • If Forrest is referring to himself, “too far to walk” might only be a few miles. For my friend’s mom, it was less than one city block. A person dying of cancer, not too far either. For a Native American Walker, it could be easily sixty miles or more. Some have trekked an entire hemisphere. Just how motivated a person is can be cause for a large variance.

      Now maybe there is a time-frame qualifier involved. Too far to walk in a few hours, or in a whole day. So i guess I am saying it is a gamble at best and impossible at worst to fix any certain number of miles to this as some have suggested.

  57. In my years of locating, one thing I try to avoid is blocking out an area from the search. I’ve seen this where some searcher will block out half the search area. And continue to block out half of what is left down to a small area. I think that is a huge mistake. “Never reverse a Custer decision!” is one of those famous last lines.
    If the person makes one mistake in the process it is all for naught. It’s so easy to let the ego (with all it’s bias’) get in the way. It comes down to self delusion. A person wants to believe something so badly they come up with fake reasons why they are right. Look, I’m not trying to criticize anyone here, just pointing out some essentials.

  58. Why I am still looking in MT and WY.

    Forrest said something about smelling pinon. Many concluded since there are no pinon in Montana, it must be somewhere closer to NM.

    Then Forrest said something about he regretting saying something. He wouldn’t say what it was probably because it would give too much of a clue. If he said he didn’t mean he smelled pinon, then people could conclude it IS in MT or WY. Whatever it was, it bothered him enough to at least say he wished he hadn’t said it. So yes, it’s a big leap of faith to assume it was the pinon statement and even if it was it still might be that it means it is not in MT or WY. But like in a previous post, it is a huge mistake to rule out an area. Confused yet?

    • What he said was: I smell pine needles or pinyon nuts. The pine needles part does not exclude MT or WY. There are plenty of pine trees up there.

    • Mike,
      In that recording, Fenn said something else just before the pinon nut and pine tree comment [what he would see and smell if standing next to the chest]. Some thing that caught my attention as a possibility for NM. [ I don’t have the link at the ready, but I’m sure it’s not hard to find { media thread} ].
      Don’t know if it has anything at all to do with the chase or location of the chest… but it was interesting.

      • Seeker, Mike: I’d have to listen again for his exact words, but f said he would smell either pinyon or pine needles, and see animals if he were standing where the chest is.
        IMO those are strong hints that he’s in pine trees looking at an area where wildlife, squirrels or other animals are regularly seen. Maybe he meant squirrelly chasers;-)

        • Talking about squirrells,

          You guys ever see the movie Rat Race? You ever feel like were living the movie? “I should have bought a squirrel”. πŸ™‚

  59. Forrest said he did not want to give an exact time when he hid the treasure because someone might be able to look at the rental car records and see how many miles he drove. That tells me it was unlikely near his home. I think he flew there and then took the rental car. But I guess you never know. One thing for sure it was not likely to be on a commercial flight as they check your carry-on baggage.

    • I think Shiloh has a pilot license and has taken Forrest places according to one of the scrap books.

  60. So hear us all and listen good. We (the Geezer Team) know this is an old issue but want to put in our 2 cents worth! We believe there’s no sense searching for the treasure in Montana or Wyoming because Forrest Fenn has told us such. He inadvertenly, we think, gave out a clue when he said β€œ I was standing where the treasure chest is … smells of pine needles, or piΓ±on nuts, …” . The clue is smells of piΓ±on nuts, which, in fact, do not grow in Montana or Wyoming! We think it was a goof because he then said β€œβ€¦ there’s one thing I told you I wish I had not.” Later, in an interview he says he erred in mentioning piΓ±on nuts, that he really meant pine needles. But, substituting pine needles for piΓ±on nuts we have “smells of pine needles, or pine needles, …” which is a highly unlikely statement, we think. Thus, it is our opinion that the treasure is hidden in New Mexico or Colorado where piΓ±on nuts do grow!

    Dennis Bockhaut, Geezer Team Member

    • SL,

      Thanks for that great article on pinyons! They grow abundantly in Colorado and New Mexico. When they are in bloom and the cones are awash with sap the aroma is amazing and almost overwhelming!


    • They are known to sometimes leave the den but to return later, from all the tracks it appears to have moved around a considerable amount of area. Maybe a early spring this year?

      • Definitely an early spring. It’s 50 degrees here in Bozeman today, with highs in the 40’s and 50’s the next 10 days. Park temps have been in the 20’s and 30’s. Most all snow is gone in the valleys, only to be replaced by mud. Snowpack in the mountains is just starting to melt, although anything over 7000 feet is still pretty packed.

        I haven’t seen any bear sign yet, but deer are everywhere, and the insects are starting to show themselves.

        Honestly, the treasure hunting season in SW Montana north of Yellowstone doesn’t start until at least June. Aside from the spring runoff which swells the creeks and rivers to dangerous levels, there’s mud – lots of it – and the fact that many forest service roads remain closed until late June/Early July.

        • Thanks,
          all good info. Looks like we are in spring time conditions here in central WY. It could also snow 5′ anytime between now and June. Early spring conditions can lead a person towards a false sense of security.

        • Thanks for that info. I was there around June 10th last year in the Spanish Creek area and it was definitely too early to do some of the things I would like to have done due to the runoff still being very high.

          • I hiked Spanish Creek on June 1st last year, it was a muddy mess and the creek was definitely water high. The gate doesn’t open until mid-May; I might give it a shot then, I’m getting cabin fever, can’t wait to get into the mountains!

        • Naught, excellent weather update. I may come to you from time to time to get the latest, since my spot is somewhat close to you. Last year went in May and the mosquitos, man. Weather was like you say now, snow melting, roughly 50 degrees, snow packed higher elevation. Wanted to head that way in April, will be grateful for the weather updates.

  61. Hello Naught, it may be advantageous to contact the Bozeman Ranger district regarding gate opening dates. We hiked Spanish Creek 2 years ago when FS didn’t open gate until Memorial Day. That 9 mile hike across the flying D would be a long hike through mud with possible wolves on the look for bison calves.

    • Thanks for the advice, Lia. For me, it’s just a drive down the road to check the gate. They usually open the Spanish Creek gate the 2nd week of May, but have been known to change that based on runoff and trail conditions. The trail’s usually a muddy mess until early July (and it’s always a horse-poopy mess). Our last hike there was November, and it was just beautiful.

    • Sorry, didn’t see the above post. Need new eye glasses.

      Yeah, the weather here in Billings has been 10-20 degrees warmer than normal. On Feb. 18 I saw a butterfly.

    • It is mislabeled Fern Mt on google earth. 5300 feet to 8200 feet in 3 miles as the crow flies. Another 4 miles and 1000 feet to the nearest road. I couldn’t do that twice in an afternoon but maybe he didn’t go all the way to the top.

  62. Just to give you an idea how the weather has been here in Billings. Usually in the Summer months the tap water is much warmer so our natural gas bill is low–about $50. No furnace heat used! We just got our gas bill for the month of February which includes our house heat and it was $56. February was almost a record low precipitation. Well, it can’t get much lower than 0.02 inches. And it was almost record warm high temperature average and record warm low temperature average. People around here are talking about the 1988 Yellowstone fire. That year we had such a hot June. Broke or tied heat records on 17 days that month. So no telling what will happen but it is starting to look bleak.

  63. Thanks for the update Mike. I sincerely hope that there are no fires there in the area for all of us, but especially for the people that live there. Stay safe and enjoy ur early spring.

    • The normal high is 45. It’s 70 right now and pretty much 60’s for the next ten days. Unbelievable.

  64. I don’t know if this has been posted here but this is the greatest Montana website of all time. You can see what land is public and what is private and who owns what. You can switch from colored, to satellite image, to forest service topo. Those forest service topo maps label many old structures, meadows, roads, etc. that aren’t on any of the google maps. I use this game hunting, treasure hunting, real estate hunting, and just all around how to get into cool places hunting.
    If the treasure is in Montana, this page should help you find it.

    • Ha ha Bryan, you discovered my secret! I use the cadastral for scoping out property owners, old gold mines, federal land boundaries, etc.

      Where do you treasure hunt? I’m in Bozeman, and spend my summers usually in the Madisons, Tobacco Roots, and Gravelly ranges. This year I’m going to spend some time up Emigrant gulch south of Livingston.

      • I’m in Missoula but I also like going to the I 15 south corridor and the ghost towns all along there. I grew up 1-7 yo spending as much time as possible in the Paradise Valley as my grandpa managed Jumping Rainbow Ranch but our family moved to Missoula in 1977 when I was 7 and I didn’t get to go back to Bozeman often. We lived in the old Covered Wagon trailer park in Bozeman which used to be on the edge of town.
        My winter “hunting” on maps and webpages has been in the Pryor mountains just out of Crow Nation. I’m obsessed with exploring that aera now. Hopefully will go there this July.

    • That. Is. Awesome. !
      I got a new, less oblique view of my area than GE.
      Thanks Bryan Hersman.

    • On a similar note, here is the Wyoming version although it is no where near as easy to use as the Montana one. Still was able to figure out where the public land was around Hole in the Wall so it does work!

  65. have you read the book ‘ whispering sage’ drago 1922 online free
    its starts page 3 paradise valley
    then goes on to described many things in the poem
    some say it holds clues to the treasure
    i do aswell
    happy hunting

    • smell pine needles (pinion nuts) and sage.
      FF once said, β€œThere isn’t a human trail in very close proximity to where I hid the treasure.”
      He said when the clues are followed precisely they lead to the end of the rainbow and the treasure.

      Jumping Rainbow Ranch (bryan) ?

      near paradise valley ?

      • Yes, try this for a spin on it. Did you read about the kid fishing from a mule, in the middle of a river, and then he see Blaze.l.p.

      • Jumping Rainbow is now a subdivision. It used to be a fish hatchery and horse ranch. My grandpa could have bought it for pennies on the dollar back in the day, sigh… it was also the subject of a Montana supreme Court case on access rights if that helps. Pretty much all private land so I doubt the treasure would be right there, maybe in the river bed as that is public but that wouldn’t be a place to make your final resting place. I tried to run the poem by my dad. He grew up in Livingston and ran deliveries into the park often. If he picked up on anything he wasn’t telling LOL!

  66. Well it was 82 today and the kids were out on spring break so why not a drive into the woods? Well at 7800 feet suddenly the mud turned to 2′ of icy slush and after 50 yards of it we decided to back out. Too late, started slipping off into the ditch. When I stepped out I sunk up to my crotch in the snow. Somebody luckily came up the road a few minutes later but low and behold they promptly got stuck as well in an older lifted K5 blazer. We spent the first hour digging them out and then another hour working on ours. I finally gave up and called a tow truck which was over an hour away. He got the F450 dually 4×4 stuck 150 feet from me and only had 100 feet of winch line. A local angle in a jacked up Polaris side by side saw the tow truck headed up so he followed him in. Good thing because it was the winch on the Polaris and a bunch of digging by us all that got us out after 5 hours total. The guy in the Polaris wouldn’t take a dime and the tow driver only charged an hour.

    Good people in Montana, but still not clear enough for much over 7-8000 feet. Still better then working, taught the kids how to stay calm and help each other.

    “Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it”
    -Thomas Swindoll

    • Smart money is on waiting until after mud season and June high water. Heck, most forest service roads are stil closed.

    • I worked (surveying) in the Pryor Mountains back in the early 1970’s. I live in Billings.

  67. Check out the new National Geographic–the entire issue is the greater YNP ecosystem.
    Awesome pictures.

    What a job. You could adventure around, taking pictures, maybe checking a blaze or two.

    Sounds like a job for Dal


    • Thanks for the heads up Joseph. Sounds like a great issue. I will definitely check it out.

    • Mentions Lance Crosby’s attack.

      On August 7, 2015, a ranger found the chewed-upon body of a man near a hiking trail in Yellowstone National Park, not far from one of the park’s largest hotels. The deceased was soon identified as Lance Crosby, 63, from Billings, Montana. He had worked seasonally as a nurse at a medical clinic in the park and been reported missing by co-workers that morning.


      • I think that guy didn’t have any bear spray. No way of knowing if it would helped. Somebody needs to invent a bear spray that goes off like an air bag in a car.

        • Lance was hiking alone with no bear spray. He knew better. Whether or not you know a trail like the back of your hand, there is no substitute for preparedness and safety measures.

          • I don’t fault Lance. He was close to the biggest campground in the park, just a 1/2 hour walk if that. That is also the biggest tent campground in the park. If it didn’t happen to him it would have happened sooner or later to some nice family’s getting drug out of the tent. We watched that sow and Cubs quite a bit that summer, they were basically zoo bears with the mom keeping them right on the busiest road all summer. They the whole family fed on the hiker so it wasn’t just a defensive attack. Maybe bear spray would have helped this time but overall it was an accident waiting to happen.

  68. In the past there has never been any sightings of griz in the Pryors, but some people have said maybe there are some now. I saw many black bear. They seem to like the ravines. One was eating a dead cow. I looked over and saw him running. I thought to myself before I realized it was a bear, “Man, that’s a big dog!” LOL He hid behind a tree while standing with his front paws leaning against the tree. His eyes looked so humanoid I have to believe many Sasquatch sightings were actually bears. Also mountain lions up there with a big deer population and some of the horses have claw marks on their backs.

    • Actually I don’t know how big the deer population is now. I’ve heard the horses have overgrazed the area so it may be the deer have thinned out and the mountain lions are hungry.

      • Grizzly tracks found northeast of Cody, Wy west of McCullough peaks. This is not a normal area for bears and is a sign that the bear population is “…continuing to grow and increase in distribution, people should be aware that they might see bears in areas they normally would not expect to find bears. As always, it is imperative to report grizzly bear activity…”

  69. I’ll be leaving tomorrow morning for West Yellowstone, MT and will be there till the following Friday. If anyone will be in the area during that time and wants to meet up let me know.

      • My spot is in Montana. Thanks, my best friend is going with me to search so I won’t be alone. Plus we’ve let our families know where we will be.

        • That’s great Bookworm! Hope the ice and snow are gone while you are there. Be safe and good luck.

    • Book-
      Many people don’t know that most of the park is closed for the winter and is just starting to open.

      There is a lot of snow still on the ground in that part of Montana. You can check it out on the various webcams.

      Additionally, many roads are still closed in the Park itself so make sure you can get to where you want to be by checking the park’s website that shows which roads are open.

      • Thanks Dal for the info. Getting into YNP is not a priority but we will definitely go if the roads are open. I’m taking my laptop with me so I’ll probably check in on here in the evenings when we get back to the hotel.

  70. Awesome, thanks Musstag. Doesn’t look like there’s a lot of snow on the ground. Problem is I checked the forecast and it’s supposed to rain/snow all next week. Bad luck for me but oh well, we are going anyway. I’ve been planning this for 6 months.

    • Good luck to you and your friend.

      Friendship is one of our greatest treasures.

      May the light of your friendship ever burn brightly.



    • Book, call th park to see what is not open, I was there may 26 years ago, and firehole drive was still closed. You could drive to old Faithful, so that was good.”

  71. I also wanted to add an invite to anyone who is or will be in the area next week. My friend and I have reservations next Wed, April 27 for a half day white water rafting trip. Problem is the company needs a minimum of 4 people and no one else has joined our raft. If anyone is interested here is the link for the company we went through:


    The reservation is under my friend’s name and is Paul. My name is Steve. Hopefully a couple people will join us, after all, it’s not only about finding Indulgence.

    • You’ll have a blast. It’s one of the most beautiful places around, part of the Lee Metcalf Wilderness. I’m guessing you put in just past the dam, which requires special access.

      You might see me camping or fishing on the banks, it’s one of my favorite places! I was going to head out there today, but work got in the way.

      There’s still plenty of evidence of the fire we had a few years ago, but most of the canyon is still pristine. Here’s a shot I took in 2012: http://i.imgur.com/LRt0J.jpg

      • Naught,

        My friend and I will be hitting up a fly shop in town this morning to gear up. We will also ask where some good spots to fish are. So far this morning is perfect fishing weather, mainly because there’s no wind……lol. If you have no plans and want to meet up today in West Yellowstone let me know.

    • Update on my trip:

      My friend and I got into West Yellowstone yesterday evening and will be here until next Friday instead of next Saturday. Also I called around and found a different white water company that will take us even if there’s only the 2 of us. There is still more room if anyone wants to go. After looking at the forecast we are aiming for Thursday instead of Wed. The company is called Wild West Rafting based in Gardiner, MT. They will take us down the Yellowstone River. It’s only $41 per person, which is not bad at all.

      West Yellowstone is everything that people said it was. It is so bueatiful here. Having “Boots on the ground” really does make a difference. It brings the “Chase” into perspective that I could never have gotten from 1000 miles away searching on the computer.

  72. Be careful the weather is supposed to turn cold and snow. Bring extra food in case you get stranded. Stay with your vehicle. I recall a family got stuck in the snow the father knew enough to start a fire and heat up rocks to bring back into the car to keep them warm. I don’t know enough about it as some rocks can explode from the moisture inside. 38 degrees is the most deadly temperature because you get wet. Don’t wear cotton. You’re in serious country. I remember seeing signs all over town, “Don’t walk on the roof”. Took me a while to figure out the snow is that deep in the Winter. Springtime storms can bring the heaviest snows of the year.

  73. Naught and anyone else in the area:

    My friend and I are leaving West Yellowstone now and should be arriving in Bear Trap Canyon in about 2 hours to do some fishing for a couple hours (weather permiting). I’m driving a blue 2001 Chevy S-10 with a faded black shell on the back that’s too short to fit properly. Let’s go fishing πŸ™‚ I’ll look for the chest another day…..lol

    • Bookworm, Stay safe and have fun. How’s the snow in the area? I went last month and it was much deeper than I wanted.

      • Bear trap and that section of the Madison valley can get pretty windy, snow doesn’t hang around for long. There’s a little bit up high but the valley is clear.

        But the water’s freakin cold.

      • Just got back, the weather in Bear Trap was perfect today, it only drizzled a little. We were there for about 3 hours but didn’t catch anything. There was no snow, the temperature was acceptable, and there was barely a breeze.

        We are planning to go after Indulgence either Monday or Tuesday late morning. With the little bit of snow on the ground in my search area we have decided to go to Bozeman and try to buy a metal detector just in case it’s covered in snow.

        I did buy a can of bear spray and we will stay paired up. Trust me when I say we will be safe. We are both ex Navy and I am an Eagle Scout.

        Tomorrow we will be fishing around Hebgen Lake, the ice has broken up next to the shoreline and the locals have told us the fish are biting. (Rainbow Point, North Madison River on the west side of the bridge, and possibly near where Red Canyon Rd meets the highway).

        • Yea, it might be a little early for the trout to bite steadily.
          I would think bears have been coming out of there dens recently & some moms may have tikes to protect.
          Thanks for the updates & if you catch a trout & there’s a bear near, just throw the fish at the bear & run faster than your partner.

          • My understanding is that one should never run FROM a bear. Course I could be wrong; not many grizzlys here in Texas, just black bears in the mountains. πŸ™‚

          • Ken,
            I never said run FROM the bear.
            You may want to run obtuse, acute, tangent or at the bear depending upon your angle.
            If you haven’t noticed, I usually don’t mince words.
            It was a joke, seeing you didn’t get it, I won’t explain.

          • Never ever run from a grizzly bear, or any predator for that matter. You don’t want to look like prey. With Dal’s permission, I’ll submit a post I wrote on staying safe in Grizzly country.

    • Love to join you bookworm but today’s a get caught up with work rainy day inside for me. Good luck be safe and catch a big ol rainbow

      • Naught

        How does your Tuesday morning look? My friend and I will be in Bozeman late morning to buy a metal detector and if I remember right that’s where you live. If you want to meet up just to say hello let me know. I haven’t met another searcher yet and for me it would be awesome.

        • I’m usually busy as heck, but I bet I can find the time to meet you for a coffee!

          I’d love to share some of my knowledge of the area, and maybe we could share a hint or two.

          email me – naughtforya@gmail.com – if you don’t hear from me, then I’m likely in an unscheduled meeting.

    • I’m not taking the metal dector into the park or any park so that’s not a problem.

      • Hey Bookworm & Healey,
        You can bring a metal detector in YNP.
        Just don’t get caught.
        Are you guys looking in the Lee Metcalf Wilderness?
        Anyway, I think it’s part of Gallatin National Forrest.
        I will be searching in & around the Madison’s in June if all goes well.
        Good luck with your fishing trip. It only takes one big bite for game over.

      • Bookworm – How deep is the snow in the area you will be searching? I plan on being in the West Yellowstone area in a week or two but still see snow in places and the temps. this week are supposed to be a little cooler so I wanted to wait till the majority of the snow was gone from there.

        • I was not able to see my search area from where I park my truck so I don’t know if there’s snow there nor how much. I’ll find out today πŸ™‚

          While fishing the past 3 days we drove by Beaver Road several times and not far from the highway the road is covered with snow. There was a light dusting of fresh snow 2 nights ago here in the West Yellowstone area but it stayed at about the 7K-8K elevation level and did not stop us from fishing yesterday.

          However, it is supposed to snow tomorrow, I just don’t know how much. Today is partly cloudy and it looks to be a nice day for a hike in the hills. I’ll check back in this evening when I get back, I need to go make a couple sandwhiches…….

          • Bookworm,
            Looks like your in my favorite area.
            Good luck & could you please spend more time fishing than looking for the treasure? I would like for it to still be there when I go there.

          • Great to meet you, Bookworm! Good luck on your search, I really like your solve. Just make sure you have your bear spray. πŸ˜‰

  74. With permission from Dal, I want to share some advice with everyone searching in grizzly country (Montana, Wyoming); it’s my little contribution to HoD (Home of Dal) and to the safety of all you searchers. All images are original content.

    In the Wood: How to safely deal with Grizzly Bears

    I’m no expert, but I live in the Rocky mountains, hike and camp regularly in Grizzly Country, and have had 3 bear encounters in my travels (2 griz, 1 black).

    This is about grizzlies, since they’re far more dangerous than blackies. Black bear attacks are another animal, literally. πŸ™‚ Grizzly bears are the jerks of the woods, and would just love to swat you down and put you in your place. They’re a bite-first, ask questions later kind of animal.

    Here’s how to deal with grizzlies:

    Prevention – avoidance is the best offense. As you hike, make noise. I’m not a believer in bear bells, because you want to be making human noises, talking or singing in a loud voice, tromping, breaking twigs on the trail, etc. Just be generally noisy, and you’ll avoid 90% of potential grizzly encounters. If you’re on top of a ridge with good visibility, being noisy isn’t a priority; but if you’re on a narrow, winding trail, it’s real important. Take heed if you see bear sign or bear signs.

    Preparation – never hike or recreate in grizzly country without bear spray. Not pepper spray for people, but the real deal bear spray (shout out to http://udap.com, one of the best bear defense companies). It’s not only stronger, but the can is under very high pressure. Use two hands to operate, or it will kick up and you’ll spray above your target. Also, most sprays put out about 30 feet of cloud; compare that with the little stream from a self-defense pepper spray. You want that big orange cloud of pain between you and the bear. Typically, you carry the spray in a holster on your backpack’s chest strap, where you can get to it easily. When walking in confined areas, where the trail is winding, there are lots of trees, and the visibility ahead isn’t great, you’ll want that can of spray in your hand. If you surprise a bear, you won’t have time to reach for it. Keep a lookout for signs of bears. If you look closely in this picture, you can see melted grizzly tracks.

    Understanding – Know what you’re up against, and it will smack you with the reality that most of what you hear is b.s. A grizzly can go from a standstill to a 30mph run in 2 grizzly-sized steps. If you’re charged, you have 2, maybe 3 seconds to respond before the bear reaches you. How quickly can you grab that spray off the pack strap, remove the safety, point and shoot? Without practice, about 4-6 seconds. Not good odds at all. If you know the area you’re in, and you are prepared when necessary, you can dramatically reduce the time to respond if there’s a charge or attack.

    Non-Aggressive Encounter – unless you surprise the bear, or you get between a mother and cubs, your encounter will likely start with the bear standing up or turning sideways. Standing up is not an attack strategy; they’re simply looking around and checking out the environment, you included. If they turn sideways, that’s the bear showing you how big he is; it’s a passive attempt to get you to back down. The best response on your part is to slowly walk backwards (don’t turn your back to the bear), look as “big” as you can – puff out, arms over head, and speak in a loud, low voice – I use, “Hey bear, no bear, its okay bear” or something likely as stupid. Doesn’t matter, bear can’t speak English.

    Bluff Charge – this is the most common response to the presence of a human, and as scary as it may be, it’s usually human inexperience that turns this into a real threat. Grizzlies love to bluff – they will charge at you, head low and huffing, to see what you will do, then break off at the last moment. THIS IS NOT THE TIME TO TURN AND RUN SCREAMING LIKE A LITTLE GIRL!!! That’s what prey does. Do you want to be prey? Didn’t think so. A scared mule deer, elk calf or pronghorn will turn tail and run, often bleating for its life. DON’T LOOK LIKE PREY!!! If you only take one thing from my essay, it’s that you never, ever, run from a bear or carnivore. If you get bluffed, stand there like a man/woman and spray the bear. Aim low, wait until it’s less than 30′ away, hold the can with 2 hands and give it a shot. Usually, this is enough to get the bear to leave you alone, at least long enough to get out of its area. Also, don’t ever look it in the eye – that’s how bears threaten other bears: they stand sideways, staring down the opponent. If you get bluff charged, stand your ground and use your spray. Unfortunately, a bluff can end with a paw swipe – it’s the grizzly’s way of showing who’s bigger and stronger, but one swipe with 4-inch claws can leave you dead in moments.

    Dominance Attack – if the bear does attack and knock you down with a charge/swipe, you want to play dead, because the bear is now measuring you up to see how much of a threat you are. Curled up in a ball on the ground? Not much of a threat. The griz might smack you a couple of times and then leave. NEVER take your backpack off – this protects the back of your neck, where many animals will strike for a kill. Also, never try and turn your back to the bear (unless doing the lay-flat method), this could also trigger a predatory response. The best method when being checked out by the bear is face down, arms and legs spread out to keep the bear from flipping you over, where he can look in your eyes.
    Predatory Attack – If the bear is going to eat you, he won’t usually exhibit the bluff charge or dominance cues. Instead, you’ll be stalked, or chased, and he’ll go for your neck, or use his paws/weight to force the air from your lungs. In this case, fight back with all you have. Go for the nose; a grizzly’s nose is one of the most sensitive organs on the planet. Shove your fingers or sticks in his nose, gouge his eyes, and as a last resort, try shoving your arm as far down his throat as you can. Anything you can do to convince him that this won’t be an easy meal. Again, having your pack protecting your neck and back area is real important. If you have a bear-worthy gun, this is the time to use it.

    Post-Attack – if you’re injured, pull the first aid kit from your pack and do what it takes to stop the bleeding. There are plenty of quality first-aid kits available with compression devices. Get out of the area as quickly as possible, but don’t run.

    A Word About Firearms – The speed of a grizzly attack is what surprises most people. This guy was frolicking in the flowers and sage, saw us, and in about 2 seconds he leaped up the ridge behind him and covered an amazing amount of ground. An aggressive bear could easily have been on us in the same time. Two seconds: can you draw, aim and fire accurately in that time? If so, good, then a firearm is a logical choice for bear defense. Forget using a long gun unless you’re really good. Also, this assumes your weapon is loaded with one in the chamber and the safety off. Bear guns, as we call them, should be minimum .41 Magnum or 10mm Auto. Don’t count on your .45 (there’s some disagreement here, but much of it is from .45 ACP enthusiasts who think ~400 ft/lbs of muzzle energy and 800fps muzzle velocity is enough to penetrate 12-16 inches of skin, muscle, fat and bone. It’s not. A .44 magnum is probably the most common bear gun where I am. You’re looking at nearly double the .45 ACP numbers – 900 ft/lbs and 1500fps. If you prefer a semi-auto, then get a Glock 20, or something chambered in 10mm auto – those numbers are equivalent to a .41 magnum. It’s a very popular bear gun, since you have 15 rounds and Glock reliability (Kimber, EAA, Colt, and others also make 10mm Auto pistols). It’s also the gun issued to the SlΓ¦depatruljen Sirius, a Danish special ops unit that often finds itself in polar bear habitats. They switched to 10mm Auto because their 9mms weren’t effective against polar bears. Also, long guns in bear-dropping calibers can be valuable, but only if they’re at the ready; there’s no way you can unsheathe a carbine from your back and bear down on the bear in time, unless you’re a Cowboy Action pro. And who wants to enjoy nature/hiking while constantly carrying a rifle at the ready? My bear gun is a Glock 20SF, 10mm Auto, with 230 grain hardcast lead Buffalo Bore cartridges.

    So, that’s most of what I know – I feel like there are things that I’ve left out, so feel free to ask questions.

    • Thanks Naught,
      Very educational & intimidating to say the least.
      I was told they usually don’t want anything to do with humans, but nature is unpredictable in many ways.
      We will bring bear spray just as last trip.
      Was wondering if a boat horn or firecrackers/M80’s would be a deterrent & get them out of your quarter mile area without seeing them of course. There’s always dynamite, flame thrower, nades, bazooka….

      • They’re not really scared of loud noises; in fact, grizzlies in my area have learned that a rifle shot means fresh food nearby.

        A friend of mine spooked a huge griz that was bedded down last year, just behind our Emigrant property. He fired 4 rounds from a .44 mag into the ground in front of the bear. It just stared at him for about 10 seconds, then turned around and sauntered off.

        • I jumped a momma Griz and a 2.5 year old cub hunting last season. The cub could have killed me, let alone the mom but luckily the mom was teaching the cub the right thing, run from humans. I didn’t even see them until they were 20 yards over my shoulder and they were running the other way. The advantage of hunting is you are ready with a firearm, the disadvantage is you are being as quiet as possible.This was in the same drainage where a hunter was killed gutting an elk in 2001, the first hunter death by griz since 1956. Like you say, the gunshot is like a dinner bell. I ended up shooting a buck in the same spot 3 weeks later and the next day there were fresh griz tracks in the snow on the gutpile. This was almost Thanksgiving weekend and the bears were still out. They were so beautiful though (as long as they were going the other way), fat bellies and long rolling coats of bronze. Hey maybe these could be the HOB. The only place in the lower 48 with more brown bears the Yellowstone is the Bob Marshall Complex which I was just south of. I drew a cow permit there for this season so I will be back there for sure

        • Thanks Naught,
          I’ll just have bear spray & sing along the way loudly.
          Been to Bozeman & Gallatin Forest last year & definitely Gods country.
          You are fortunate to live there although the winters must be brutal.

          • Winters here aren’t as bad as you’d think. Snow’s not a big deal, but we get a week or two of -20 degrees or worse.

            You know what we do when the winters become brutal? Stay inside! πŸ™‚

  75. Our family hikes every summer in Montana Grizzly country.
    If I may add to the bear spray discussion:

    1. You must know how to deploy before using it on a bear.
    2. The cheap cans deploy ALL the spray the first time you touch the trigger
    3. Invest in the $65 can of the best bear spray
    4. Take someone along who is NOT looking for the treasure to be a sharp look out for wild life.

    IMPT: If the wind is blowing…good luck telling a charging bear to stand down wind while you spray in his face.

  76. Naught,

    It was awesome meeting you in person………I liked your solved as well.

    So it’s 2 am almost and I am back at my hotel room and I had to talk…….

    For over 6 months I have been trying to not give my solve away and I did good since I have a BUCKET MOUTH. hehehehehehhe…… My solve was in Bear Trap Canyon. I hiked it today……well yesterday…….didn’t find Indulgence…….but I found bueaty………I’ll write it up later and send it to Dal with pictures.

    • It is hard to hold onto a solve that is just sooo good. I’ve had mine since December 17th. My family and I are not hiking until mid June because of the snow. I am sure my wife is annoyed with me now. Of course she still has to wait and listen to me babble for the next 7 weeks unless the chest is found.

  77. I still gotta talk……….my big “pre clue” from FF’s book TTOTC was the 50 miles. For me the 50 miles lead me straight to WWWH which is where Ennis Lake enters Bear Trap Canyon. It has nothing to do with Ennis Dam because that’s another 8-9 miles down river. For me the 50 miles was the key to find WWWH. It’s why I drove over 1000 miles from Southern California.

  78. Bookworm,

    If you are in West Yellowstone which I’m assuming you are, go to the Rendezvous Ski trail near the thermometer for 15 minutes and wave at us all. You pick the time and post so we all can see you and you crew!


    If you are savvy you should be able to locate where to go in West Yellowstone.

    Here’s to seeing ya!


  79. Bookworm,

    Yes it is, its sort of more on the Montana Dr. side behind the building per GE. I think this could become a cool tradition. Let us know if you are up for it. πŸ™‚

    • I think that’s an awesome idea and yeah, I can go there and hang out for 15-30 minutes drinking a beer and smoking some cigs. It’s 9:38 am now here in West Yellowstone so let’s say around noon I’ll go over there. I need some time to drink my coffee and get over this hangover. My friend and I closed the bars last night πŸ™‚

      • Bookworm,

        Great sounds like a plan. We will be looking forward to seeing your smiling faces! I unfortunately have a webinar I have to be in at 11:00 hope it doesn’t go over too much if so ill bring it up on my phone.


  80. Yes, I an see the railroAd station across the street, from there walk to the soutbeast, across the street to the parking lot, it has a black storage trailer parked somewhat near a snow pile. Go to the rear of that black trailer. We can see that very well. Well here, take a look.

  81. Bookworm, does Dal still have a geochache hid somewhere east of ff’s ole Dude Motel in west yellowstone. Check on it, anyone…..

    • I made a comment in the “New Little Cache” this morning asking Dal if it had been put back yet so I can go and try to find it today. I did check out the Dude Motel and it looks exactly like the old photos. It’s next to Wild West Pizza which is a bar/resturant my friend and I have been going to. Heck, we’ve been to all the bars that are open………hehehehehehe.

      Alrighty, my friend is ready to get something to eat. Afterwards he is going to check out the T-shirt shops while I go stand in front of that cam. I’m wearing a red polo shirt and a black hoodie. LOL, I’ll be the only person standing there drinking a bud light and smoking a cig. It should be in about 45 minutes, at around noon.

    • Muss & Book-
      The cache spent the winter basking in the warmth of less mountainous landscape. It will be returned to its hidey place in early June. Right after Fennboree…
      I will post a notice when it is returned…

  82. I’m back at the hotel before meeting my friend at Bullwinkles. Yes that was the metal detector I bought yesterday in Bozeman just before meeting up with Naught. I got some hits on it but was not going to do any digging there. I figured I’d do something besides standing there and might have picked up a surface coin/loose change. It was 38 degrees and lightly snowing so I had to put on my gloves, beanie, and jacket.

    • Bookworm,

      Very cool, maybe we have started a tradition. πŸ™‚ Thanks for that!


      • You’re welcome LitterateOne, besides it being cold it was fun. I wish I could meet more searchers like I met Naught the other day.

        I think I’m done looking for Indulgence though. I checked my spot out and didn’t find it so I think that’s it for me. I still plan on going on adventures like this past week but my focus will be on fishing and having fun. Today is my last day in West Yellowstone and we are supposed to go white water rafting on the Yellowstone River but it’s snowing again so I’m not sure if we will make it. It’s 8 am and we need to leave by 10 am to get to Gardiner by noon.

        • Hello Bookworm. If you have extra time while in Gardiner, stop off at a pizza place on U.S. Hwy 89/Scott St. W. Nearly all the way down the road on the north side, just before the hotels; in a horseshoe-shape shopping center. Great caroli! πŸ™‚

          • pdenver,

            My friend woke up not feeling well plus it’s snowing even more here so doesn’t look like we will make it to Gardiner today. It’s the one thing I can’t control, the weather…….lol.

        • Hello Bookworm. April is a finicky month to search. Hope your friend feels better. If it’s altitude sickness, drink plenty of water and take it easy. I’ll bill you later for the advice. πŸ˜‰

          Have fun!

          • Hello threerocks. I am not, but raised six children and been in and out of doctor appointments where I should have a medical degree of things of learned. My oldest daughter is in the medical field. πŸ™‚

          • Should read, ‘…should have a medical degree of things I learned.’ I think I need a stronger pair of reading glasses. πŸ™‚

          • lmao pdenver, that was funny. I lost count of the times I made typos. My buddy feels better but it’s our last day here and we both are feeling lazy so we are going to the bar at the Day’s Inn because we haven’t been there yet. Looks like a “bar hopping” day for us.

            I’m also wondering about Dal and that he might be on the road since he hasn’t responded to my question in “the new little cache” discussion I posted a couple days ago. It stopped snowing here and that would be the perfect thing for my friend and I to do today.

          • Locolobo,

            I did blink and missed Dal’s comment, thanks. I just got back from the “Little cache” and it was there so I took 1 item and left 2 items. Pics to follow.

  83. I missed the whole camera thing because I had to sleep after a night shift. Whoever finds Indulgence should dance in front of the cameras and shake their “bootie”. I think that would be hilarious.

  84. That’s hilarious y’all! I hate that I missed the fun. I will be there in September and will definitely stand, sit or dance in front of the camera. Wish someone had gotten a screen shot.

  85. Federal probe into Grizzly bear shooting death “Scarface”. Didn’t see where it happened, but somewhere outside the Park. Whoever did it is going to be in a world of hurt especially if they don’t come forward.

    • May have been in self defense Mike.
      I would assume either way, officials have to be notified.
      Must have been a well known Griz.

  86. Well, the Feds have to spend a bunch of money on the investigation. Nowadays they have cameras. Even the old days they used super 8 cameras set at one frame every few seconds along the trails rivers, etc.

  87. http://fwp.mt.gov/news/newsReleases/fishAndWildlife/nr_0831.html
    this is the only official info out there. Nowhere does it say it was an illegal shooting, just that it is under investigation. Any shooting legal or illegal would be under investigation but the fact they didn’t come right out and say they are looking for info on who or why make me think they know the circumstances and are just verifying the story.

      • Scarface was shot on Little Trail Creek. The fact they said in late November may indicate that they knew about it. Don’t know why they wait this long, maybe to see if their story still holds. They can tell where the bullet entered etc. if it was self defense or not. You get many blood thirsty hunters when they can’t get the elusive elk they will shoot at anything. A lot of people here have great disdain for the out-of-state hunters. Now I sure don’t know what happened here, but the Feds must have some reason. This was the third one killed.

      • I asked in the “Fundamental Guidelines” posting about bears and big cats and how you experienced people handle this stuff. I wish I could get some insight from you all.

        Since this bear was old and underweight I wonder if it was hungry enough to go after someone.
        I remember a show about some bear guy that was eaten in Alaska about 10 years ago.
        Not having ever dealt with big predators, I think I need advice, if some of you don’t mind.

        • Buckeye,
          I looked at your other post in Fundamental Guidelines and want to address several of your concerns here. I grew up in WY and my dad was a member of the search and rescue squad and he taught wilderness survival classes to the park rangers in Yellowstone. I sat in the back of more of those classes than I can count. These are some of the fundamental things that you must ALWAYS do if you are planning a hike even if you are only going a few miles from your car:
          Its best to not go out alone if possible. The best rule is to have at least 3 in your party. That way if someone got hurt one could stay with the injured person and the other one can go for help. It also is a better practice in bear country as the talking will let any critters know you are in the area.No matter how many you go out with always tell someone where you are going and when you plan to be back. If you should get lost (which is surprisingly easy to do especially if you don’t know the country) S&R will know where to start looking and will start looking a lot sooner which can make a big difference in them finding you.
          Familiarize yourself with the area where you are going. Look at a map. Which direction does the road run? Are there any creeks or rivers? Which way do they run and where are they in proximity to the trail you are on and the road? If you should get lost just knowing these simple things and knowing that the sun sets in west and rises in the east could make a difference between you getting yourself unlost or spending a very uncomfortable night in the wild.
          Make sure you prepare for any kind of weather. The weather in the mountains can change in minutes. I’ve seen it snow in Wyoming every month of the year including July and August. Even an afternoon rain shower can drop the temperature significantly (it can easily go from 80 to 40 in a half an hour) and a lot of times in summer it rains every afternoon so dress in layers and take rain gear. Don’t take a chance of getting hypothermia. Believe me it’s a lot different getting wet in a rain shower in the Mountains of WY or MT than it is in lower country. I know we see Dal slogging through water in those clips but if your gonna do something like that make sure you have a way to get warm and dry if the temps drop. I know Dal takes precautions and he’s a seasoned searcher. Remember hypothermia can kill.
          Always carry a little survival kit with you and know what’s in it and familiarize yourself with how to use it. Make sure it has things that would help searchers find you, such as a whistle, mirror, matches for a fire, space blanket to spread out in an open area that searchers could see, etc. If I remember correctly Dal posted something on here about some folks that make and sell some good ones. Maybe someone else can help with that link?
          If the worst should happen keep a couple simple things in mind:
          DO NOT PANIC- it’s human nature to panic and start running and you can end up miles from where you started before you get ahold of yourself. Calmly see if you can figure out where you are from what you know from looking at the map. If you are not sure or can’t figure it out in a short period of time, stop, and stay put. If S&R needs to find you they are gonna have an easier time finding someone that stays in the same spot than one who is traipsing all over the mountains.
          Remember the rule of 3: a person can last 3 hours exposed to extreme elements (hypothermia) , 3 days without water, and 3 weeks without food. So your first priority is make sure you can stay warm and dry.
          That’s just the very basics of staying safe if the mountains. Being prepared for the worst is the best way to stay safe.
          Ok as far as bear safety:
          Check before you go out and see if there’s been any bear activity where you plan to go. Yellowstone is especially good about posting this kind of info.
          Make sure you make plenty of noise so any animals know you are in the area, loud conversation, whistling, singing, ect. Pretty sure Dal sings row row row your boat over and over ;-). Most of the time they will leave if they hear you coming.
          Carry bear spray.
          Google bear safety, one of the first links is an excellent page Yellowstone put up about reducing your risk of an encounter and what to do if you have an encounter.
          Hope this helped a bit.
          Good luck in the search!

          • Thank you very much. I was beginning to think that my fellow questers wanted me to get et by a barr, or something, judging by the silence. πŸ˜‰

            The info about hypothermia was especially needed. I’m aware of it but I think I was underestimating the danger.

            Thanks again.

          • Thank you WY Girl. I’ve made notes and gotta practice now because I ain’t gonna have my computer nor the time to look this up when I’m standing in front of bear.

        • Bears – Make some noise and always be AWARE of your surroundings. Winter bears are just plain dangerous. After being stationed in AK, I saw a few bears destroy cabins and have read stories in the paper of people being eaten when they woke in the middle of the winter (no worries at this point). Bears coming out of hibernation in the spring will attack if hungry enough. Mother bears and their cubs are a no-go. Again, be aware of your surroundings. So always be prepared. Most bear sprays are not worth it. If you buy spray, buy the expensive stuff. They shoot farther and don’t exhaust the contents all in one spray. Carry a weapon. I don’t want to use one either, but I will if my family or I are in danger. No animal’s life is worth mine or my family’s life, so yes I will kill the animal if need be, no questions asked. If you do get caught up in that situation and don’t want to shoot, carry some extra food or simply throw your bag and gear towards them and back away. Chances are, the bear will be temporarily interested in what you have.
          Cougars- are very elusive animals but we’re lucky that they generally take cat-naps throughout the day. They are most often found in trees and on rocks above your head. If they are on the ground, chances are they were already stalking you or other game nearby. If you come across fresh dead game. Get out of there right away because they are probably staring you down. Cougars are opportunists and almost always attack from behind. Wear a mask on the back of your head to confuse them but always check your 6 when on the trail. Also carry a weapon, be aware of your surroundings and make noise. If I were to say there is an animal to be afraid of, that would be moose. They are just dangerous. Again, make noise, be aware of your surrounding especially near rivers and stay away from thick brush that you have to hack through like willow. They like marshy areas with thick brush near rivers and streams.

          • Yes, thank you.
            I have two fears involving bears and cougars.
            Surprising them at a close range, and even worse if they have young around, and if they are desperate with hunger.

            I don’t want to kill them either. I love wildlife and would only hunt what I would eat, unless I’m threatened. And I’m not particularly interested in wild game meat for the wild taste.

            I have nothing against a big game hunter looking for trophies, but that’s not my interest. I’d shoot them with a camera, though. πŸ™‚

          • Old Boy Scout joke: The National Park Rangers are advising hikers in Glacier National Park and other Rocky Mountain parks to be alert for bears and take extra precautions to avoid an encounter.
            They advise park visitors to wear little bells on their clothes so they make noise when hiking. The bell noise allows bears to hear them coming from a distance and not be startled by a hiker accidentally sneaking up on them. This might cause a bear to charge.

            Visitors should also carry a pepper spray can just in case a bear is encountered. Spraying the pepper into the air will irritate the bear’s sensitive nose and it will run away.

            It is also a good idea to keep an eye out for fresh bear scat so you have an idea if bears are in the area. People should be able to recognize the difference between black bear and grizzly bear scat.
            Black bear droppings are smaller and often contain berries, leaves, and possibly bits of fur. Grizzly bear droppings tend to contain small bells and smell of pepper.

          • Zaphod,
            I just don’t want someone to find my hat
            in Grizzly scat.
            I like that hat.

  88. An organizational question for Dal: was there a reason that New Mexico and Colorado got their own discussion areas, but Montana and Wyoming got lumped together? I’m guessing it wasn’t deliberate, and perhaps the reasoning was that so many people are searching near Yellowstone’s boundaries with Montana that they are checking out possibilities on both sides of the border. Or conceivably that the first clue is in one state, and the chest is in the other.

      • I often wondered the same thing. I also wondered if it would be worth it to separate them now or if it would be pointless. Ponderous

    • Maybe it was based on activity at the time. Lots of folks interested in a lot of different areas in NM..so it got it’s own…
      Lots of different areas in CO that folks were exploring…so it got its own..
      But the only places people were talking about in MT and WY were the Tetons, YNP and Glacier..so I lumped them together since YNP is in both…
      Since then there are many more places in MT and WY that are being explored and they should be split up…but I feel like it’s too late to do that..

      • I think it works just fine Dal & Goofy.
        I like to think we begin with a big WY & end up with an answer in the Treasure State of mind.

      • I figured it was something like that. Discussion areas evolve somewhat organically, and in a way I’m glad that the original area names have been maintained since it serves as an historical record.

        I know a lot of searchers are confident the treasure chest is in either Montana or Wyoming. Lots of good reasons, I suppose. Montana being the Treasure State; the interpretation of “title to the gold” literally meaning “yellow stone”; “So why [WY] is it that I must go”; and so on. He certainly talks about Montana and Wyoming a lot in TTOTC. But then Forrest has also written, “The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker.” There is nothing “very subtle” about Yellowstone. A good fraction of the pictures in the book are from YNP. To me, a much more subtle clue would be the fact that while Montana, Wyoming and New Mexico are mentioned many times throughout the book, Colorado is never mentioned ONCE.

        • @Zap re CO not mentioned ONCE…hang on a sec…the bracelet and where it originated is one subtle mention of CO in a way as that is the state Mesa Verde is located but not much else….hint of riches new and old (it’s a new bracelet but made from very old beads)…IMO.

          • Hi Cholly: That would be a much better example of a “subtle hint” as opposed to West Yellowstone, Hebgen Lake, the Madison River, Grayling Creek, Red Canyon, the Gallatin National Forest, etc.

        • Zaphod,

          You could look at it another way… the book is sprinkled with Yellowstone stories, yet the chapter For In Love with Yellowstone is one page and One sentence that refers to it. On the other hand there is a story on that page that is only mentioned once in the book [if I recall correctly] and has nothing to do with Yellowstone.

          If hints/clues are sprinkled in the book… wouldn’t the stories of Yellowstone match that description and not be deliberate? So could the one page chapter be a hint?

          Isn’t it odd that this dedicated chapter [page] for Yellowstone only mentions… “we’d take off for Yellowstone. I absolutely loved that place and along the rivers I could find the best agate rocks for making marbles…. I was thinking about all those things and even more.”

          There is more about the cars, the school[s] the ride, WY mentioned….then Yellowstone.

          We can read what we want into subtle hints.

          • Hi Seeker — I guess I’m just asking if you were going to hide a treasure chest in YNP, is it the best strategy to “sprinkle” Yellowstone throughout your book, and say how much you love the place, when your goal is for the chest to remain hidden for centuries? Why bother with the ruse of saying ~any~ place in the Rockies (sufficiently north of Santa Fe) is in play if you’re going to tip your hand and “hint” that less than 1/100th of the highlighted map area actually strikes your fancy? YNP is large enough that you could certainly secret a small box there and make your clues so vague that it would take forever to find.

    • Hello SL. I saw this on the news last night. It made me think of the times when my youngest daughter was little and how she wanted us to bring home a bison from Yellowstone. They’re her favorite animal to this day and she’s nearly 18 years old now. πŸ™‚

    • Thanks SL,
      β€œVisitors must give the animals enough space and alter their own behaviour to avoid interacting with an animal in close proximity.”
      I think this is a misquote?

      “close proximity” Hmmm

    • I just think it is unconscionable that those Rangers and the US Government would take and put Bison, and any other animals for that matter, in such a cold place and let them get cold and die just so people can come look at them in this National Park. How dare they be so cruel to those poor, helpless creatures!!!

      And they also let bears and wolves wander un-caged in this Park too, don’t they know that these viscous predators will kill the other poor, defenseless animals?

      Wow, what has this country come to that we would tolerate such in-humaneness just so people can come pay a little money and get to see this barbaric entertainment. Where is PETA? They should be protesting and organizing against this terrible mistreatment of animals!

      Someone get me a paper bag to breath into, I am hyperventilating because I am so upset.

      • JCM,
        Here’s a brown paper bag to breath into.
        Don’t breath so quickly & relax.
        OK, good job.
        Oh crap!
        That was the bag I barfed in.
        Sorry about that.

    • Thanks, pdenver. …one can still drive up the fountain flat drive though, right…? im…erm… uuhmm.. asking for a friend… lol

      • Hello JCS. I just discussed it with my husband and he said he didn’t have a clue. It’s possible that Fountain Flat Drive may still be open. I guess “your friend” and I will find out. πŸ˜‰

  89. Thanks pdenver! That’s not too far from where I’m searching soon, but not there so I’m good. JCS, you’re funny! I hope your friend finds out soon and reports back. πŸ™‚

      • Thanks pdenver. Those won’t affect me either thankfully. I will be searching the first or second week in September.

        • Hello Carolyn. It looks like you’ll be able to go when most of the crowds have gone. I believe it will be more relaxing for you. I wish you all the best of luck with your search.

          • Thanks Pdenver! I’m really looking forward to it. I will write about it when I get back. We r going to be able to stay at old Faithful Lodge this time so that’s exciting! We ate there last time and the architecture was cool.

        • You’re welcome, Carolyn. I’ve never stayed at the lodge. Stayed in a small cabin at Yellowstone Lake 30+ years ago. You are correct in that the architectural layout is none to compare. Absolutely beautiful. I love it. The stone fireplace is quite inviting. Hope you’ll be able to sit and gaze into it come September. Good luck to you and have a lot of fun.

          • Thanks Pdenver! You’re so sweet! And informative. Do you live close to Yellowstone? I hope to gaze into the fireplace too. Good luck to you in your search as well.

        • Welcome – another Wyoming searcher – The more the merrier.

          Good luck in your search – STAY SAFE


        • Hello Carolyn. Thank you for the compliment and kind words. I greatly appreciate them. I live over 500 miles from Yellowstone. I believe there are more antelope than people on our journey up there. πŸ™‚

          • That’s not bad Pdenver. I think if I drove straight thru, it would take 24 hours, half of it being Texas. Lol, just kidding, but almost. Wish I lived closer to Wyoming, but I would miss Tx. I don’t doubt it about the antelope. There were so many pronghorn in the red desert in Wyoming that at first it was really cool and we were like, wow, look. After the first several days, it’s more like cows in Tx, there’s a million of them. Still cool though.

        • Hello Carolyn. So true are your words. This year, I’ll get to hear three of my four sons kid around heading up there. Yet, since we’re leaving early in the morning, they’ll be “catching flies” for a while. It was fun having six kids going up there when they were young. Matchbox cars,
          Barbie dolls, and coloring books & crayons kept them busy. Plenty of snacks and drinks, too. Those were the good ol’ days. πŸ™‚

          P.S. Still have to provide plenty of snacks and drinks. πŸ˜‰

          • Pdenver if you are going to be around Houston or Austin ever, get my email or phone number from Dal and let me know so maybe we can meet up.

    • “He” said it’s open. There’s a good anliut of construction between Madison junction and old faithful though.

      • Thank you Buckeye Bob,
        You guys have your hands full next season with Mich St & Mich back to back.
        How come Iowa is not on the schedule?

        I asked Mike, how did you debark that tree & him & his wife answered at the same time. It’s a secret.

        I hope he flew the flag today against his superiors policies.
        The flag is behind the plaque & wish I could be there to see it wave in the wind.

        • Too many teams, 2 divisions and Iowa’s in the other one.
          Good football there. I wish they were scheduled, I like good games between top teams.

          I have so much to say about the rest of that stuff, but this isn’t the place.
          May God bless them and their families.
          This world, sometimes, is pretty damn crappy for far too many people.

  90. The TC wants to wish all you seekers a Happy Fourth of July, and says we have something in common our freedom..however, TC said follow the clues carefully and come find me I’m getting lonely..FF has left his true luv for all of us to enjoy the “outdoors”…TC also said IMO, I’m somewhere in the treasure state near a mighty river filled with brown trout and beautiful surroundings

  91. At the end of the May 27, 2016 radio interview on the Richard Eed’s Show, f made an interesting statement when Richard asked him a question.

    Richard: Do you want to leave us a clue before we leave?
    Forrest: The clue is enrich you life and get the kids out of the basement and go out and spend a couple weeks in the Rocky Mountains and Santa Fe and Yellowstone and every place in between. (36:48)

    Perhaps this has already been discussed elsewhere, but I haven’t seen it, so I will put it out for discussion and thoughts after having sat on it for awhile: did f eliminate (either purposefully or inadvertently) Montana with that statement?

  92. Has anyone searched Yourname creek in Powell county Montana? Someone mentioned it and I wanted to know if it’s been searched.

    • mensan,

      The image does not load correctly for me. I can only see part of the circle. Not even half.

      Do you have a better picture?

      Scott W

      • q1werty2 Scott W…The image did load correctly…It’s not too hard to find the exact center WWWH…Hint…the latitude is the same as the “top” of the O in Oregon in the picture…The longitude is slightly East of the most Eastern part of that map. Try using Google map in TERRAIN mode and save a screenshot pic of half the USA…Then use MS PAINT to overlay a 1000 mile diameter perfect circle (same length and width) which perfectly defines the inner bound of the California Sierra Madres Range Arc… Then use Google Earth to explore the satellite views of the center. Waters High might be the ancient (white) high water marks (BLAZE) evident in the layers of the surrounding geography which is not too different from the altitude threshold FF gave us. Some say 1500 meters. …did you read my old posts for more info since my solve has never changed?

        • As best I can figure, looks like NE or Moran, Wyoming. Very pretty area.

          Good luck in your search – TRY to STAY SAFE


  93. Aug 19
    Montana Fish & Wildlife has closed the Yellowstone River to recreation (“fishing, rafting, and other uses”) from YNP almost to Billings (183 miles) due to a virus that is killing many thousands of fish. They don’t want people transferring the virus to other basins. Till further notice.


    bummer for anyone planning to wade to the trove

    I will post this in O&E too since this place is so quiet

  94. Might be an opportunity to head out to Butte, MT? (Granite Mt.- Historic Mining Disaster Memorial a long with Our Lady of the Rockies site…….etc?

    Lots of history in and around Butte!

    • Good luck Joseph. I’m heading out this afternoon for a peek, let you know if I find it so you can save the trip! (I know, I can be mean sometimes) πŸ™‚

      • That’s quite considerate of you Naught. (Like you would otherwise not mention to anyone that you found a chest full of gold, gems, and artifacts. Hehe. )

        I am definitely coming home with a box of rocks. I just don’t know if they will be yellow or not, or whether the box is cardboard or bronze.

        • There are tons of old gold mines and camps in the mountains in SW Montana. I have buckets full of some pretty cool rocks. The only gold ones are either pyrite or chalcopyrite. Pretty, but worth as much as a box of old rocks. πŸ™‚

          If you’re not going to be in Yellowstone NP, then google “montana deq historical mine narratives” and read up on some of these cool places, some of which you can still visit. Just don’t take anything from patented land. Enjoy!

    • Good luck on your “first” – The first is always the most exciting – kinda like a first kiss I guess.

      Come home with riches, even if the riches are not in a bronze box.

      TRY to STAY SAFE


  95. Ya know, and I think Forrest would appreciate this, if the chest were to be found tomorrow, we would go anyway. Thanks Forrest.

  96. FYI:
    I am heading out tonight for my area in MT. I should be around West Yellowstone Saturday/Sunday 9/10-9-11 (give or take a day)
    Wave as you pass Esmerelda.
    I have some ideas…
    I have my imagination, flashlight, sandwich, map and books…
    Only thing missing is the chest…lol…

    • Have fun Dal,
      I will not be there until the 13th.
      Just leave me a few coins if you happen to get it this time.
      If you are still in the area, I was wondering if you want to take that trek up to the falls?

    • Good Luck!!
      We will also be behind you by a few days….my wife is a dam fanatic, and I am fascinated by the Ice Age Floods, so we have some irresistible distractions between here and the Gallatins.

      Wave back at green pick’emup!

    • Good luck in your search. Most of all, search safely. Consider adding bear spray and gloves to your list.

      Semper Fi,

      Windy City

    • Sending wishes to Dal that the treasure decides to reveal itself to him in the (very) near future!

    • Good luck Dal…sincerely…great timing to be in such a special place 15 Septembers after the fact ! Have fun and keep the powder dry…

    • Dal, you are the one person that scares me in terms of the combination of persistence (nearly 70 trips!), location, and experience. But if anyone is deserving it’s you! Go get the gold!

  97. Dal –

    If good wishes of good luck were a criteria for finding the chest – you would have it. I am adding my best wishes for a very successful trip. Bring back the prize so we can all see it.

  98. This page is now closed to new comments. To continue this discussion please go to the latest “Looking in Montana and Wyoming” page.

Comments are closed.