Where Warm Waters Halt…Part Two


This page is now closed to new comments You can still read the previous comments but to add to the discussion please go to the latest WWWH page.

This is for a discussion about Where Warm Waters Halt. We’ve all got ideas that didn’t work out or we are willing to share…I think we can give folks just starting out some ideas for the kinds of places that might just be the place Where Warm Waters Halt…or not!

Let the discussion begin…


915 thoughts on “Where Warm Waters Halt…Part Two

  1. Ok Dal, I think were warm waters halt is a reference to the elevation. After a certain elevation the water isn’t warm any more

    • Randy-
      I don’t see how that would give us a place to start. It seems like all it would give us is an elevation, and that is not a place is it?

      I believe WWWH is a very precise place and that the place where warm waters halt is unique.

      I don’t think it takes a code to figure it out. I do think a map helps significantly if you are not familiar with the region. But millions of people every year pass within 500ft of this place. If you stop and read the signage and the area description it becomes evident that this is a place where warm waters halt.

      What’s more, I think many hundreds (maybe thousands) of folks on this blog have figured it out and are using it.

      So knowing this place is no guarantee of success…
      Knowing it does not mean you’ll be able to just walk to the chest..
      It’s still tricky…

      or quite possibly..I am entirely wrong…and I have been using the wrong WWWH.

      But sometimes it helps me to restate parts of the poem as a question..a riddle..

      So, in my tiny mind I restate the line like this:
      Where in the world do waters (note the plural) that are warm (not cold and not hot), stop?

      Another way to consider what I believe to be Forrest’s way of thinking is to pick a place and try to write a description of it like Forrest’s “Begin it where warm waters halt”.

      For instance:
      If I wanted to start on the Colorado River in the Grand Canyon I might write a line-Begin it a mile deep where water is the color of coffee…okay..not as good but perhaps you get my idea

      Just saying..I think the starting point is a relatively famous place..
      passed by millions of folks a year…but they don’t necessarily think of it the way Forest has described it. A map will help you find it but all you need is the poem because it is a unique place.

      Of course this is just an opinion..

      • …Oh Dal you big tease. You should probably re-iterate the Cheat Sheet page & Fenn’s sole comment about WWWH being not related to a dam.

        • Theycall-
          Not a tease. I placed my exact location for WWWH on this blog twice. If folks want that info but are in too big a hurry to read what’s here..too bad!!
          I try to encourage folks to read the comments in the archives as well as the stories by searchers. There is a lot of info…readers will have to make up their own minds whether or not it is useful. I just try to keep lies from being repeated here…

      • Dal,

        I wonder, did Forrest consider the difference between HALT and STOP?

        Very important distinction.

        • Liviu, here’s one answer to your stop/halt question:
          Numerically, L=3, T=2 therefore HALT ends with 32, which is the most logical temperature descriptor of WWWH.

          Halt has a numerical value of 8132 which may also be the elevation or altitude where you begin solving.

          • I think it has a lot to do with way you are tracking the waters–upstream it is easier to tell when the water gets colder than warm so warm waters halt

          • @Lia- hi! I do see this reply is a bit late but wanted to ask how you arrived at these numbers ? Yes, ‘a’
            Is the alpha/1st letter in the alphabet however,’L” isn’t the 3rd.
            If you’re still on this blog, please LMK which numerological equation system you’re using? Gematria? Based on …

            @ Dal – I’m loving your blog, been researching the poem & later, the books (of course), although I do believe FF when he stated all we need is the poem, I’m very grateful for the map,(clues too).
            Seeing the map put a lot in perspective in my mind.

            Dal, you’ve stated you posted this starting place @ least 2 other places – will you please disclose it again, here?

            I’m lurking a lot – this isn’t (posting) something I feel that I’m good at, so I don’t do it often! And my goodness, what a huge blog you have! Thanks either way,
            Marga of Kali

          • Marga-
            I like folks to do the research for older posts themselves. It’s a good learning experience. You might start with Dal’s Adventures and see what you find. Then, once you have a phrase in mind search using the search mechanism on the right hand side…
            There are other ways to search the blog too. You should become familiar with them so you can look for things on your own.
            Other folks on the blog are kinder and more generous than I am. They might see fit to give you the answer to your easy question. Maybe they don’t want you to learn how to search the blog on your own…
            Maybe they are just being gracious…

        • Liviu – good question. One has to wonder why he didn’t use the word balk instead of halt, thereby rhyming with walk. I would say that those subtle distinctions matter.

      • Dal, it’s interesting my search team came up with the same WWWH as you did independent of any outside influence. I really only started reading this blog after our first search last year. I’m close to convinced it’s the correct starting place and it pains me to think of having to find another WWWH. hope you have a nice trip and if your still out there mid June give us a shout we’ll buy you a beer!

      • I agree. I definitely think your approach is the correct way to solve this riddle.

      • <>

        Wait… what? This is the first time I’ve heard this version. I only knew it to be “some people.” Is millions a new number from FF?

        Thanks, Dal.

        • Had an unoriginal thought.

          WWWH might be the Grand Caynon of the Yellowstone painting by Thomas Moran (began his career with Fielding Meek), or again by Grafton Brown, the specific perspective at Moran’s Point approx 500 ft away from Lookout Point and approx 500 ft away from Grand View (marvel gaze). The warm water is captured and halted on the canvas. I focused a bit too much on the horses in the painting thinking I might see a blaze or some such silliness.

          Or another take might be from Artist Point, walk to Point Sublime, the location supposedly named by Beulah Brown who maintained several hotels back in the day.

          Maybe I’m too focused on the art angle. I looked quite a bit for clues in the Smithsonian and the Capitol building where Moran’s famous lower falls painting ended up. Thought maybe some Brown-made bronze statue or a Brunswick-made painting might exist. I’m definitely not on the same level as Nick Cage in his National Treasure movies.

          • @E.C. Waters, say speaking of the ‘art’ angle any idea of name of artist and painting on page 104 of TTOTC? I know not on topic of WWWH but seeings how the book is being analyzed to pieces I sure would like to know! I’ve goggled ‘woman with lute’ and just can’t find it. I’m also curious about the little school kids upstairs (pages 18 & 19) looking out at all the others having their pics taken at field day and wondering if it was a racial thing. Makes me sad for them. I just about have the poem memorized and continue to reread both books as well as others.

      • Hi Dal

        This is in my opinion only. Opinions change.

        Love reading your write ups. I would have to agree with you on this one, only the line in the poem is “Begin it where warm waters halt” You said they way you thought about it and said where warm waters stop. Halt and stop are a different concept. The concepts that are here are inference to reference . Not tring to correct any thing here we all need a understanding to bit the hook once … F is fishing in my opinion . At least it seems that way , and I find it to be a polite gesture of F’s kindness and a pay it forward , due to the amount of education you could get from this if you were one who needed a nudge forward to find the chest . And by nudge I mean is to find a understanding some where in this chase. Like WWH and Put in below the home of brown .

        Any way to halt , in the military as you well know , is to stop…. But are you at a stop in this position? … No because you as a solider you have been trained to be at ready for war at any given second from even where you are standing . So , really you in a halt , is at ready position ,and that would mean then you are in suspension would it not? And if that be true Then the elevation could make some sort of sence. I will totally agree with you that there is no code in the poem , that it is most likely a riddle . Due to the fact that F was born in the wrong time , by his words ; brings me to remembering that during the late 1880’s through 1900’s riddles were lotteries in the local news papers and I’m sure F saw and perhaps he had read a few in the years of his life.

        But you could be very right also .
        And to through a bone out there , the duck in Yellow Stone .. Well , I saw it … and I saw the color of the one duck … But … That duck I don’t think is HOB. But , you were on the HOB trail there if you ask me….. Matter of a fact Dal I have been checking in to it a lot and have also planned a trip back out there in a week also if I can finish the solve of terry scant with marvel gaze … . Funny , I know It’s the last time I can go for the season so .. Hope to see ya on the trail…


        If the beginning of the chase is at the word “Begin ” then how do you tie in the secret where ,? And riches new and old.?

        Heres my take on the poem … They are titles of places each one of the clues . ( clues9 …. 9 sentences. ) BUt it is a matter of understanding why each clue ties to each other.

        So if you read the poem from the first stanza ,” As I have gone alone in there and with my treasures bold , I can keep my secret where , And hint of riches New and Old. ”

        The first stanza is one sentence … So to me there is one clue here . The next has 2 sentences , so 2 clues to me.
        But , to unlock the word that gives you the understanding of the solve… Well I found a word… And bought 9 books .
        In those books I can see references to the thinking and understanding of folks in the 1800’s . Mixed with stories from old dairies , gave me a understanding that could help in the chase for me. All tough I love Yellow Stone , and I do like it’s terry scant with marvel gaze… I cant follow it farther unless I go in a different direction from West Yellow Stone and head toward Bozeman and even Farther North. Not that it’s not in Yellow Stone I’m not saying that, but the road ends if heading toward W Yellow Stone . But heading the other direction , that’s a completely different story.
        Our Family main Solve right now is New Mexico. But depending on how my person handles the drive to yellow stone will determine weather my trip in the next week or so could change to Taos .

        Another WWH that could be possible is , if you asked a American Indian where their warm waters halt .. Would they tell you their home? I wonder some times how people of the old west acted and how American Indians lived , and by that the chase penchants me at times …
        But that is what I love about this chase.. Your Imagination is unlimited. Could WWH be 6400 ft? Could it be in NM? Could it be in Yellow Stone. Well I guess that it is all how you as a person looks for the chest … I know how I like to look for it and I feel that others should do the same . But keep in mind that your Imanigation can get you into trouble at times… The chest in not on the bottom of a 1000 ft. deep lake of on the top of a mountain , but in a place not near any human path .

        Any way , We hope you the best on your Quest Dal , and all others. Good Luck to ALL!

        • Mike-
          There are many interpretations of the word “halt” on this blog. To me it means only one thing…
          I spent nearly 4 years as a jarhead and I know for a fact that when the sentry yelled “Halt! Who goes there?” He did not mean for me to slow down. Nor did he mean for me to change direction. He most definitely meant for me to stop dead in my tracks. I was not allowed to move from that spot until I was given another command to do so. If I wasn’t given another command I would have to rot in that spot or be prepared to take a magazine of bullets. I would be very surprised to learn after all these years that when a sentry told me to “halt” he would not have minded if I simply slowed down and turned to go in a different direction. I am confident that I understand what Forrest means by “halt”.

          • Good stuff Dal , well put . Thanks for the comment and I will file that in my brain bank … Ill try to use this concept better in my solves also . Thanks Dal…

          • @42 does sort of look like a young Skippy staring out the barn window! Did the countdown mystery searcher take down the graphic barn and radio program? All I see now is the one day and 7 hours. Interesting listening to the poem recited they use the ‘s’ version of the poem and also mention something about a Nightingale which I always felt the dove in the moon picture was a Night Hawk or Nightingale (very similar to an owl), and the word ‘Nigh’ is used by the lady in the supply store, guess we will know by Saturday! Anyhow back on topic WWH, Could it be possible that the aspect of ‘warm’ is what is halting and not ‘waters’? According to ‘Flywater’ the Firehole is known for being rather warm yet still has Browns in it….but I’m still a NM fan for the rest of this year….

          • my thoughts too… flowing waters don’t halt. Obstructed waters do, and rising waters do.

          • Dal, I think that we are given another command….BIWWWH (and then) take it in the canyon down. NFBTFTW. It’s all one sentence. We are given a command to begin it- then halt- then take it,- then not far.

            IMO Forrest is telling us that the warm waters halt (or falter) and then it moves down into the canyon down past the HOB.

            IMO “halt” is the closest he could come up with to match “walk”.

            No imagination in using halt as stop.

          • That’s interesting Ritt-
            I take it you see it as direction, direction, direction.
            I see it as a direction, then a description and then a direction again.

            In my mind Forrest is telling us to begin our trek to the chest where warm waters halt.
            I never read it to mean that we begin and then we halt.
            It’s the waters that do the halting.
            He is just giving us a description of the place so we will recognize it.
            I imagine him telling me to start at the place where warm waters stop.
            It is a unique place because there are not many places where warm waters stop…so more description is not needed.
            If there were many places where warm waters stop we would need further descriptors in order to identify which one he means.
            But since this place is unique…no further description of it is needed.
            I think he can do that in one sentence.
            Of course trying to understand what this place looks like, where warm waters halt, is the puzzle…
            He gives us a simple description and we are left with trying to imagine what that place actually looks like and then locate it.

            Just my opinion of course..
            Many others read those lines differently..

          • Sorry to sound like a broken record or a brown noser, but I find myself again in Dal’s camp concerning that it is the waters that do the halting, not the searcher. And that place is the beginning of the end, in the sense that if you identify that very particular place it will be a “simple matter” of following the rest of the poem to the treasure.

          • swwot-
            lol…7,000 searchers are now laughing their heads off about how it’s a “simple matter” to follow the rest of the poem to the treasure.
            But let me say that if my WWWH is correct (I can see the NM crowd rolling their eyes in disgust) then maybe I am just the simpleton to skip over to the chest singing “Row, row, row your boat…as I go… 🙂

          • it may just be my thought process in over-drive. But I have a hard time limiting a single meaning to any word in the poem. Fenn has stated ever word was deliberate. Which I see as, the usage of those words having many meanings and those meanings should be examined to find a commonality throughout the poem. A collaboration, if you will.

            Interpretation of any poem can be difficult and at the same time, a poem that was designed to explain how to find a trove, imo would need other factors involved them just a single meaning.

            If the poem is describing a scene which to view and waters stops. That give the impression of the “viewer” [searcher] needing to go down a canyon.

            If waters halt is change direction, the meaning of the next line does as well, and IT is the action of the waters take in the canyon down, and Take in is not unlike put in.

            So would the word halt be used to grab attention of the reader and make them ask why that word and not another?

            and is the collaboration take in and put in to be one in the same.

            Now the over all view, if you will, IF the waters is putting in below hoB. and the view of that is from where “the searcher stops” at the water changing it’s direction.

            Or the more reasonable interpretation is the searcher must “stop” when the waters “change direction” and travels down the canyon, and watches the water lead the viewer to HOB.
            Both usage / meanings of the word “Halt” is needed to understand the action of both the searcher and the waters.

            Just a thought anyways.

          • Dal wrote: It is a unique place because there are “not many” places where warm waters stop…so more description is not needed.
            If there were many places where warm waters stop we would need further descriptors in order to identify which one he means.

            Forrest Fenn said (paraphrasing ) : There “are many” places north of Santa Fe where warm waters halt. So how does one identify one of many places where warm waters halt? IMO there is a need for more of a description or a different interpretation of warm waters halt.

          • Ritt-
            I believe you will know you have the correct WWWH when the remaining clues fit. If they don’t you probably do not have the correct WWWH.
            For several months I tried to make the Great Salt Lake in UT my WWWH. To me it makes sense because it is the bottom of the Great Basin and there is no outlet from the lake. Water, warm and cold, simply sit there…unless you call evaporation a movement…
            I really thought it was a great potential WWWH. It is certainly unique…but lo and behold…there is no canyon down from the Great Salt Lake that I could find. The lake is already at the lowest point around…and south didn’t work either…no canyon..So it could not be the correct WWWH.

            It took me about a year of thinking to come up with my present WWWH. I tried several other places and concepts for WWWH first. I’m not saying it’s correct. I am only saying I think it’s correct and my mind is subject to change. But the litmus test for me is uniqueness and linkage to the remaining clues.

        • Dal, I am a NM searcher and am not rolling my eyes! Why do you think I should be rolling my eyes?

          • Morning Dal, I am forced to admit that it is difficult to convey some concepts of communicating via the written word. My quotes about it being a “simple matter” for any searcher was said with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek – sometimes shortened to TFPIC or just TIC. I’ll try to do better at placing the acronyms at the end of those sentences that may be a bit ambiguous. Nonetheless, starting from the right spot is in a sense sef-evident. Knowing you are there is the hard part. How does one determine that? By testing the rest of the poem against the geography in proximity. Simple, no? 🙂

      • Dal, I am very new to the search (learned about it 3 days ago). Thank you for your website. Perhaps I can “catch-up” with others soon. With respect to WWWH. I want to agree with your comments that it is a specific place, but how does that reconcile with FF having stated that there are many places in the Rockies where WWH? Perhaps I’ll learn the answer as I continue to ready, but that bothers me. How can a starting point be in multiple places? Thanks for your comments.

        • TWS, welcome aboard.

          FF comment about many places WWWH was telling us we must know the correct specific one. And yes, that is puzzling to many, many of the searchers. Something must clarify the information as to which WWWH.

          This is why FF told us that the right approach is to read TTOTC book and then read the poem over and over and over, and then reread the book slowly and carefully.

          Best of luck in your chase. You’re hooked now! 🙂

          • Specialklr,

            “FF comment about many places WWWH was telling us we must know the correct specific one.”

            Since we are responding to a newcomer I would like to expand on your comment above:

            3-MW 8-12-2014
            “There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts. F”

            I don’t recall f saying we must find the correct warm waters halt. I believe there can be a difference in how this can be understood.
            1. Look and reduce all potential actual warm waters that halt down to one through some sort of deductive reasoning.
            2. Perhaps there is more than one meaning to this line in the poem.

            Nice to how we welcome new folks most of the time, reaching out and offering our thoughts, cheers Specialklr!

          • uken2it, your response to a newcomer is interesting. You are correcting me for something I didn’t say. You said,
            “I don’t recall f saying we must find the correct warm waters halt.”
            That is not what I said and I don’t recall that either.
            Cheers to you.

          • Specialklr,

            I did not intend to correct you. I shared a different point of view from what I thought you meant when you said. “FF comment about many places WWWH was telling us we must know the correct specific one. And yes, that is puzzling to many, many of the searchers. Something must clarify the information as to which WWWH.”

            If you did not mean that one must identify the actual specific spot where warm waters halts I apologize but would appreciate your helping me understand what you did mean. Either way I believe f may mean a specific wwwh or something else. Both valid conclusions.

        • TWS
          Read my explanation further down on this page…maybe I make myself clearer…maybe not..
          I am having a hard time explaining myself on this concept…

          • Thanks everyone. I am perhaps 1/3 of the way through the comments. Dal, is there an Archive (you mentioned it should be read, separate from this long list of comments?) Thanks again. I’ll be caught up in a week I hope.

            Thomas Schroeder
            US Army Airborne and simple treasure hunter; infrequent metal detecting and regular native american field hunting.

            Thanks for the nice welcome.

          • Thomas-
            There are a couple of Archives..one for Nine Clues..You will see them in “Searcher Discussions” on the right side..

      • Dal–
        I’ve been thinking about this ‘wwwh’ line alot lately and I’d like to know your thoughts on several of my observations. FF is an accomplished author and understands the impact of written words, ergo every word in the poem is chosen specifically for it’s usage. Why then is the word ‘halts’ inserted instead of ‘stops, ends, merges, disappears” or any other descriptor? It’s jarring on the ear when you listen to the poem read aloud. Every other line in the poem rhymes where it should rhyme but not this line.
        I am wondering if we assume ‘halts’ is the same meaning as ‘stops”, right then we have gone off the rails.

        • hello Jim! not Dal but hunch here.
          because the word halt is written on the wooden-clad concrete ball where the warm water used to be halted. easy!

        • @Jim, I kinda agree. I’m looking around at “halk” (nook) and “chalk” like “Chalk Creek”.

    • Ok I have an idea of good guesses. In 1859 a man named John brown raided harpers ferry and also large loads and waters high could refer to a ferry I’m 15 and had these tell me if there good

    • Since the human body is over half water and that water is relatively warm. The water halts when the body is dies, becomes dehydrated or decomposes or anagram cremated.(demarcated, macerate and my favorite camerated)

      • now you’re getting somewhere. read the whole poem as if it’s talking about death. I also read it as birth and at least one secret layer.

        • I have read the poem as a wedding also. Going in a bachelor and with his treasures bold, wedding ring and his bride, that is all I can remember but you get the drift.

          • I have had that thought as well, but could not find a suitable location. Parts? – Yes. But a whole wedding described by geofeatures – no.

            I was imagining:

            In there alone = waiting in chapel/church
            WWWH = Alter/holy water
            Canyon = aisle
            Brown = ? (as with every other solve)
            Meek – the wedding
            Drawing Nigh – the bride walking the aisle
            No paddle up – the willingness of the bride walking
            Heavy loads – nerves
            Water High – tears
            Blaze – the ring
            look quickly down – her finger
            Quest to cease – you are now married
            Worth the cold – Cold feet
            Brave and in the wood – ?
            secrets he knows – successful marriage
            Done it tired – stayed to the end
            Now I’m weak – The end is near/come

            Scott W

        • Another thought I have is only using the first 3 stanzas. I base this on a desire to allow folks equal access for example those that cannot afford to buy a book. So 3 stanzas in the excerpt plus other excerpts of the book. Just a possibility and imo.

          • Q1,
            May be too late to respond to your wedding solve but it might be that “Brave and in the Wood” is where you will be after accurately solving and following your clues.

          • I see. And you probably think that the wood is directly under Forrest’s rainbow? Whateva!

          • Sorry, in hindsight that was a rude comment. Obviously you can not see the friendly smile on my face over the keyboard.

        • Decall,

          “read the whole poem as if…”

          We have been told by fenn: read, re-read, read again many times an analyze the poem. [ the definition of analyze means. “Methodically in detail the constitution or structure of something typically for the purpose of explanation and interpretation.”]

          We a been told to re-read the book as well, and The poem is difficult but not impossible. Told, we need to now where to start, told we need to know what WWWH “means” or “is” [ not that its the first clue or even a place… that is all interpretation as well]

          So in each reading we see different interpretations: life, death, directions, instructions, travel, journey, step by step, a map and some others.

          Are we to pick one we like? or use the all?

          Is it so complicated to see All those interpretations to lead to a single straightforwards understanding of poem when combining them all or most.

          Could it be that we are trying to “fit” a single, one only conclusion of just one of those above and miss the straightforwards meaning of the poem by limiting our imaginations by eliminating any other interpretation.

          Fenn has stated some over complicate it, and also, some make it simplify it to much.

          What is that happy medium we need to see?

          Is the poem a single interpretation?

          Is the poem many interpretation to be use as to understand an overall one?

          Do the words have only a “single” meaning to use or, most of their meanings of that word “used”?

          Are we reading the poem correct?

      • Murray,

        Sure it has been done. in fact i have read the poem to be after death and this is his last letter to all.

        He went with this treasures to keep it where. and we begin WWWH [ death ] and where that is … is symbolic of a burial. canyon down the shears side and lower level of the resting place or grave. not far obvious, place below mother Earth. heavy load that cover you and tears of sorrow above. His marker being the blaze, looking down in respect and just take the chest and leave my bones.

        Still where doe that leave us? We need to find the first clue out.

        but know that i think about it… if fenn did intend to go with the chest… wouldn’t he have made a marker? a headstone if you will. And should he still attempt to do just that… i would think the marker would already be in place… Hmmm.

        I wonder what the inscription would say?

        • Seeker,
          Inscription would be: “I wish I could have lived to do, the things I was attributed to.” Shaped like a rainbow…… hmmmm. I guess it is ok to end a sentence with a preposition too.

  2. I believe WWWH is a straight-forward clue. And, the use of the word “halt” tells me the water takes on a rather sudden change. I think there’s a natural reason that the WW halts, i.e., it flows into much colder water, goes underground… or encounters a glacier (but I don’t really believe the latter).

    I also believe WWWH is the 1st concrete clue, the 1st stanza being a subtle clue that sets the stage (while also hinting at how it all ends).

    But, what do I know?

    • I concur with you Melanie. First clue sets the stage for the 1st clue. It is my opinion. RC

      • I just heard about fens treasure and after doing some research I am inclined to think that where rio ojo caliente meets the chama river is WWWH. Also the chama flows through canyons and has records for largest brown trout caught. This got me very excited but have not been able to connect any more clues

  3. WWWH is where water freezes. Liquid or gas, the only place it halts is as a solid. Also – “worth the cold” is a reference to ice.
    So – where does warm water turn to ice?
    Here’s the tricky part — it’s not just at freezing temperature. Atmospheric pressure also controls where warm water turns to ice.
    There is only one place where warm water will always halt — and it moves with different temperatures and pressures. It’s called, “The Triple Point.”
    Begin your search at a place called “Triple Point.”

    • Wabi,
      Thank you for triggering a memory for me. I have been trying to recall why I selected the Triple Divide as my wwwh and this was the reason. Now if I could just organize better and regain a bit of my short term memory I will solve all of this for us…definitely not happening folks but having fun trying.

  4. Dal,,,In my humble opinion WWWH is very vital to the solution of the poem, as HOB is a direct consequence of how we define WWWH. HOB is a “local” definition not a “global” definition as there could be hundreds of HOBs in the rockies. But there is only one unique WWWH at least according to Fenn’s thinking,hence once we figure out that unique WWWH spot, HOB is just a local definition found around the general area of focus .It is with such a context that I have decided my WWWH,,,small Hint..focus on the word Halt..

    p.s. this is a whisper 🙂

    tintin treasure

    • WWWH may be unique, but Mr. Fenn has already said that it is not one-of-a-kind.

    • So why don’t you have the chest already? The whisper thing got old a year ago…IMO

      • I am not in USA,and furthermore,there is a time to wait,and there is a time to move.

        Tintin Treasure

  5. I will say that WWWH has many meanings and locations. It is a reference water, but not the different forms of water or how those forms might halt/change form. Is it a specific location that gives sets of directions to go? That is more than enough to get people thinking. I want to hear where people will go with that thought. Good luck everyone.

    • IMO WWWH cannot be determined in isolation. It has to be taken with the other clues to define its precise location. Trying to pinpoint WWWH without the subsequent lines of the poem is like trying to deduce the physical properties of a ball knowing only that it is roughly spherical in nature.

      • I like that observation threerocks. That is why in my opinion, there is more than one meaning for WWWH, that guides you. And you don’t get all of those meanings unless you get out there and experience them.

    • I was dumb struck by all of the minerals, crystals, gemstones etc. on display at the Natural Hist museum today. Started wondering if there’s certain compound known only to exist in one specific area, trouble is science has discovered about 4,000 unique compounds.
      Aren’t a lot of them are found in caves…several have H2O as their last ingredient

  6. I think WWWH is near Thermopolis or Saratoga WY. Not sure where and it hasn’t helped me.

    • Not above 5000ft elevation there. I thought it could be there at one point too until I looked at the elevation of that area.

  7. For WWWH getting more than one meaning I agree with you guys,or in other words you could interpret wwwh in more than one way,but the fact remains it is one spot that we need to identify…

    Tintin treasure

    • Did he say millions pass within 500 feet of it? When did he say this? Sorry I must have missed that clue.

      • Old Faithful where warm water is both high and halts when it hist the ground. Visitors pass within 500 feet from her beauty. The problem I find with this location is, it is to crowded. The place Forrest hid the treasure had to have some seclusion and private means to hide his treasure. It may be close by or far away. Warm water halts all over the Rockies, Is there a place where its definition would fit a more understandable equation. I don’t think so. The other clues must fit together to understand the location or at least the first two. Why has no one built my teleporter yet? I need to beam to a lot of places to look around. I heard that . that’s what the car is for Ha Ha. Good luck with where warm water halts. I can make this happen in my sink. I would even go as far as a good pee on the ground from what ever creature alive ,could create this effect. LOL. I hope you get my point it is where water drops or runs away from my brown brain cells from thinking to hard. It is so simple to know where it is, but so hard to find it. J B

  8. I’m inclined to think…When F said it has nothing to do with a “dam” he did mean that. BUT he didn’t say anything about the water behind it, or did he? He states things that seem very specific but can also mean other wide ranging things so it depends on YOUR interpretation of what he means by it. Gotta think FF!

    • he said “WWWH in not related to any dam”. SB68

      Rhetorical question 😉
      Is the water behind a dam related to said dam?

  9. Another thing to keep in mind is that we know the treasure must be in MT, WY, CO, or NM. But that does not mean one or more of the clues are in another state that leads you to one of those four 🙂

  10. IMO, the Continental Divide is a good WWWH. Cold water fisheries may have something to do with it as well… aslo IMO.

      • I have the Continental Divide as one of the better assumptions on my list.

        -I especially like the “Triple” Divide. Stanza 1 has references to “3”,

        -“Triple Point” is in regard to warm halting, has to do with warm water halting. And, Well there are canyons…

        I also include Basins in my wwh solves.

        Location: wwwh in basin that is down in the canyon that is “too far to walk”.

        Solve too far to walk and you may have a good start. I offer this because it has rewarded me today. Solve? I will muddle over this but I doubt it is the Solve but it is the best finish I have had and the Blaze is, well as a famous sitcom claimed, (poetic license) “it is real and it is fabulous”

  11. c’est moi… What maybe needs a second look, Dal, is conclusion that there is only one WWWH…because State guides (CO) reference warm water fishing areas and cold water fishing areas, i.e. rivers…… and I have Googled river water that looking down on it from Google Earth has a distinct color change, where it seems to be changing from arctic blue to normal river color….an interesting phenomena …. see this at a stretch of river somewhere south of Jackson WY, somewhere down a canyon. also, one must always bear in mind ff’s cues to the location which include “special, secret, dear, private…..all of which he has stated in interview(s)…… you cannot just go off to the wild blue yonder without realizing it’s a “dear” place, unless he means “deer”

    …c’est la vie/la cuir de chase…armor of the hunt,…a lovely French perfume, but that was then.

    Shadow is making a stroll by my patio door….the meanest devil cat I’ve ever seen!

    • moi-
      That’s what makes this a wonderful country..we all have opinions and for the most part get to express them..

    • The water change you speak of could be caused by the difference in the time of year(s) and the time of day(causing the sun to reflect differently on the waters surface) that the satellite/aerial photos were taken then mapped together. I took a look and IMO that’s what it appears to be.

  12. I think finding “where warm waters halt” is exactly where they are in the poem. You don’t need to find it, he put it right there. Kinda like the free spot in bingo. We’d need to start with one piece in place to prevent total chaos, and that’s it. Having one single piece already in place would be the only way to insure that any completed puzzle would end up as a perfect replica both in construction and location. Personally, My view is that THAT is the piece in place. Not necessarily the first piece, just the only one that’s a given. Just IMO though.

    • Kind of like is the chest was hidden in a place called “bologna and cheese sandwich” you may need to know the cheese is on the bottom. That way when you solve another clue and get “bologna” you know that goes above or before the cheese. When you go to eat it (finally) and look down the first thing is the top piece of bread….but when you are ‘building’ it you might begin by putting the cheese down first. I believe the clues are in order in the poem, but once they are assembled the route is different. With a house you might “begin” with walls ..once you built the whole house you’d enter through the door even if the door was the second step in building it. The “plans” are still in sequential order I.e. You DO install the door before you put in carpet and windows and furniture. But you can’t move in until it’s all built. And when you do, you go through the door. Two seperate beginnings. 1- putting it together 2- entering the path you created

    • Yes. In my opinion, it has to do with the placement of those words in the poem. Start there there’s your halt. I worked around that as a fixed halt to find the next “relationship” in the poem, or next thing I could lock into place relative to that. I’m not saying that it is a correct way of doing it…I just don’t really ever see anyone mention that way of looking at it so I was just throwing it out there as a way to look besides the traditional “nine clues, nine stops on a path, nine locations”. As it’s a good possibility, but there’s millions of other ways to look at things besides what everyone else seems to be doing. My thought it just one of them for anyone that might like to entertain other ways of doing it.

      • No, HAT. Dal opined that it’s probably not important. And yet Mildew the floating HAT that exploded outward is seriously driving me nuts! I mean what the heck was that? One of the most bizarre stories I’ve ever heard, come on! If anything in the Scrapbooks is a hint that Twilight Tale had to be one…

        • Sorry to be asking for hints. But what is meant by “THAT”, “HAT”, and the bizarre story?

  13. Crazy thought: Any chance “where warm waters halt” is the beginning of a website URL? “Halt” is the same thing as a period at the end of something, so one could read this as “www.”

  14. Forrest’s profound and powerful statement contained in the chapter, My War for Me:

    “Many professional soldiers who have been in the throes of life-or­-death experiences may be forever branded by an incident, although it may have lasted only a minute or two. Later, in one’s reverie, those memories can come sparking back when ignited by something innocently said or something thought. If you see a warrior staring off, quietly move away. ”

    That statement always struck a chord with me, maybe it is because I have a military background but then he said, “In my reverie I often find myself stealing away to that place and I will always consider it to be mine alone.” There is that word “reverie” again but this time it is directly linked to his special spot. I sensed the significance of this statement but the comprehension seemed just beyond my grasp.

    The following is Forrest Fenn’s quoted lyrics from a Tony Bennet song in scrapbook ninety. Note that the original lyrics to the song are:

    “In my solitude you haunt me with reveries of days gone by in my solitude you taunt me with memories that never die”

    This is Forrest Fenn’s quote:

    “In my solitude, it haunts me with memories of days gone by. In my solitude, it taunts me, with reveries that never die”

    These three statements are seemingly more that just a mere coincidence. They all seem to hint of some kind of traumatic experience, possibly linked to his military experience. He did confirm he was beat up emotionally and physically when he retired from the Air Force. He admitted throwing his watch into a corn field when he left the military as he looked forward to a change in lifestyle. War can be a horrible thing and his initial quote almost sounds like he is talking about an operational stress injury or Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) which many soldiers suffer from when they return from combat when they experience the horrors of war. Could his special place be linked to these memories? Was that hypoxic-like experience as he flew his T-33 jet over Philadelphia that changed his life somehow related to this reverie?
    The Wolf

    • Everyone I know who is (or was) a veteran, especially from Vietnam, do not like to talk about the war at all and certainly would not have fond memories of it or any place related to it. When they visit places such as a memorial, it is a sad greif stricken place, not a special place that would make someone happy. One friend in particular (who is dead now) was a helecopter gunner in the Vietnam war. He was shot many times and critically wounded on two of them, the last one forcing him to get a plate put inside his skull. Of course, like FF he too lost a lot of friends there, but he never liked talking about it at all. he cherished the times he had prior to that portion of his life.

      IMO “stealing away to that place and I will always consider it to be mine alone.” refers to a special place he frequented when his life was simple and fun, like when he was young perhaps. Everyone, myself included, seem to spend a lot of time thinking about the simpler times in life and long to revisit them. But we know that even if we go there physically, the place can never be the same because all the good memories and people of the places are long gone. Remember that FF is the last person in his family alive.

      The last place I would want to be is a dark place, and given the tear metaphor it can also be applied to family members and friends who have nothing to do with war. Also tears do not halt at a memorial, there are visitors at the black wall on a daily basis.

      • A solution can be the best fit to the poem imaginable but if it doesn’t explain what is special to Forrest Fenn then they are dead in the water.

        Many believe special is a pretty place in a scenic sort of way; however, considering Forrest refers to himself as a very spiritual man, special is more likely spiritual or principle based.

        I believe it is critical to understand Forrest Fenn and examine what evidence he has provided that implies a deep meaning.

        • I agree with you Wolf, but how does the “show the poem to a kid” statement fit into the mix?

        • “show the poem to a kid”
          You pose a very good question WiseOne.
          The meaning behind Mr. Fenn’s special place can still be very deep without a child’s comprehension.

          There are many aspects to solving the poem. One is understanding what is special and that requires understanding Forrest Fenn. That can is is likely IMO to be very deep.

          Another aspect is how to understand the poem and ultimately the directions to get to the treasure.

          The “Show the poem to a kid” reference can mean many things:
          – The clues are straight forward don’t overthink them
          – One of the clues would be tricky to an adult but understood by a child
          – One or more of the words in the poem have a hint associated with a “kid”
          – “kid” could be a play on words that direct you to something more meaningful i.e. “kid” hints “kidney”

          • That’s all very interesting Wolf. I like your way of thinking. I suppose I could be overthinking it a bit. I must have been feeling that my theory or potential solve was too deep from a kid’s standpoint. Thanks for your insight. Much appreciated. 🙂

        • I thought the comment was … show the poem to a ‘child’… the meaning of child are many.

          As well as ‘Stealing’ away to that place and I will always consider it to be mine alone.

          Stealing, as in a place or maybe a place in time. possibly taking an imaginary ride to what once was. In most of what Fenn has written [about the case]
          Is all about the past, his memories and thoughts of. When Fenn is talking about stealing away to that place, could it be that he is going back farther than is 85 years to a place he wish he had been able to go…but time or timing would not allow?

          How far is too far to walk? And is WWWH stealing back to a another place? Why is it he must go…and give a future exploring enthusiast the same thrill? What was the Thrill for a 13 year old fenn or even an 80 year old fenn?
          Just collecting?

          If the poem’s clues were meant to last many years, could it be those clues in the poem also refer to places important to Fenn, even before his own birth. [ the clues didn’t exist but Most of the places did ]. It logical to think is some of the clues existed when he was young…they most likely existed long before that…Yes even the non-place clue[s].

          • Excellent reasoning here Seeker.

            Along the same lines, one of my theories about the “important possibility related to the winning solve” is that “I” in the poem is Hothgar, to put it succinctly.

        • I did examine and think of how FF would feel about it, and also compared it to almost everyone I know (even those who are spiritual) and almost all of them do not like to talk about the war.

          I can see FF thinking, just like most other vets, that the people have forgotten about the sacrifice put forth by those who lost their lives defending our freedom in ALL wars. Their tears would halt at a memorial, I understant that way of thinking, and it is perfectly valid, but I do not see tears halting there or that being related simply because I would think that FF would rather have thoughts of good times, not bad, not sure if he suffers from PTSD (?), but reflecting of death and war would not help matters.

          Just wanted to make it clear that I am not saying you are wrong, I was just giving educated guesses as to why I do not share the same opinion 🙂

  15. I am of the strong belief that where warm waters halt is any hot spring that comes in contact with the Rio Grande river and that is where warm waters halt. The hot springs have to be warm I believe, but nobody calls them warm springs that I know of. There are some hot springs where the temperature is really hot. My own definition of hot springs is any hot springs above 110 degrees fahrenheit. It is my opinion only.RC

    • I agree with your assessment, except where you suggest to apply it. To get warm water, the hot water has to mix with cold river water. These hotpots have circular rock pools designed to funnel the cold water into them to make them warm. The warm halts in the hotpot – similar to where FF loved to swim as a child. The warm water halts there and when it escapes into the river it halts and turns cold.

      Problem is there are thousands of these north of Santa Fe. Trick is to pick the right one. Maybe that is why very few have gotten the first two clues correct.

  16. Forrest Fenn stated outright, if one is to choose one chapter from his memoir, The Thrill of the Chase, read My War for Me, because that story was very special to him and was the first chapter he wrote for his memoir. Contained in one of the most meaningful paragraphs within that story was this paragraph:

    “After all of the bullets and rockets and bombs had finished flying through the trees and across the skies, there was nothing left for us but the memory of 58,266 Americans whose names have been etched, chronologically by time of death, on that shiny black war memorial, which is constantly being washed clean by the tears of a million visitors. In another generation or so most of those names will be but an asterisk in the history of a forgotten war, a curiosity to wonder about, like the Lincoln Memorial. “

    • A memorial is where warm waters halt? I have given it serious thought to what Forrest Fenn wrote on that chapter, and I could be that a child would say that tears are warm waters. Maybe we are looking at the wrong warm waters. RC

      • Why does WWWH have to be a place on the map? Like if your instinct it that it’s in his ‘memories’ and ‘wiping away his tears’ I totally understand the thought process of it being a memorial….but if it was actually HIS memories and HIS wouldn’t they ‘halt’ in HIS “MEMOIR” (making that place YOUR living room haha) also answering the age old “all you need is the poem” vs “do you need the book” with a simple retort of “all you need is the poem. The first clue in the poem is read the book. Figure it out. Just brainstorming out loud in a power outage here, sorry I can’t shut up tonight. Lol

      • or maybe we are looking for the tears in the wrong place. Why the beginning? Maybe the end is metaphorically more suitable…

        • …or maybe the cover is kinda like a twofer being metaphorically and literally suitable as it overlaps them both and ties them together with strings down in the canyon…I mean the binding…Freudian slip, sry. Whatcha think, wolf? C’mon…we can at least give away one clue, right?

  17. Forrest joined the AF thinking he was going to “win that war” (korea), I suspect maybe part of this has to do with repaying a debt he thinks he owes?

  18. From a “comprehensive knowledge of geography” perspective, an aquitard, aquiclude, or aquifuge might work as WWWH……….. that is, if the water is warm…….

    Aquitard – a saturated, permeable geologic unit which cannot transmit significant quantities of water. Also called a semi-pervious formation.

    Aquiclude – geologic formation which may contain water, but is incapable of transmitting water.

    Aquifuge – geologic formation which neither contains nor transmits any water.

    (These terms were in the Aquifer chapter of my kid’s textbook)

    Curiously, another “comprehensive knowledge of geography” lesson involves something called a “perched lake”…….

    A perched lake is “a perennial lake which has a surface level lying at a considerably higher elevation than that of other waterbodies directly adjacent or closely associated.”

    Of course, you don’t want to confuse a perched lake with a window lake or a barrage lake as there are subtle differences……. But using the word “perched” makes it an easier sell with the “water high” phrase of the poem……

    There won’t be a paddle up your creek, but perhaps there will be a perched lake? So maybe perched lake = water high?

    • Nice work Jason. He tells us we’re looking for a rainbow and speaks of colors which is subtle. Rainbows are created with a heat source and water. Anyone ever check out Rainbow End in Medicine Bow? The castor oil got me with the medicine angle. It has to be in Wyoming from the Why must I go part.

      • Peacemaker1, I think that there are some interesting possibilities in Medicine Bow and I think it is interesting that few have mentioned that area. I would like to explore that area for its own sake even if I don’t nail down an area to search for the chest. Have you been there? From the maps & pics I’ve seen it looks like a beautiful area and not overcrowded. Interesting history too.

        • Read he would spend a week alone in Sheridan Wyoming. That’s near a medicine mountain and a native american medicine wheel. If he’s spiritual then maybe he found his cure there. I tend to think the castor oil is more likely a place that got him well from the cancer. Something was medicine to him.

    • Just adding on with random comprehension as also we think of ‘perch’ as a high place, but literally it comes from meaning a horizontal rod (like birds perch on so we randomly associate with ‘high’)…and THAT came into play from a measuring rod used horizontally on the ground to measure out a ‘perch’ of land which was 160th of an acre…and THAT came from the Indian measurement of the same amount called a Marla. I guess I’m rambling but if you could find a high perched lake named Marla full of perch you’d probably have the trifecta on the concept.

      • That is absolutely the greatest response to one of my ridiculous postings that I’ve ever seen! I’m impressed!! And I don’t usually throw out superlatives that easily…….

        Speaking of a trifecta, have you ever heard of a “cocked hat”?

        And yes, it really is a type of hat (but not the kind you’re probably thinking of!)

        It had to do with navigating and drawing lines on a map using known landmarks to ascertain your correct position……. the resulting triangle was said to be a “cocked hat”…………

        And, of course, Dither’s hat named “Mildew” certainly looks like it went off half-cocked somewhere in the bosque while he was hunting coyotes………

        • Reminds me of a scene in the 80’s movie “Murphy’s Romance” with James Garner, who’s giving advice about wearing cowboy hats:

          “It’s not how you bend ’em, it’s how you wear ’em. You wear it back on your head it says you’re easy-going, you like people. You wear it cocked over to the side, you’re a rooster and you’re looking for a lady or a fight…whichever comes first. But if you wear it square on your head and low down it means clear the sidewalks because you’re cocked and ready to fire!” 🙂

          • Ha! That’s great info…….. Now I know how to “present” and “represent” when I’m wearing my cowboy hat out west!

            But usually, I just end up getting “knocked into a cocked hat” when I try and do the tough guy routine…….

            I love idioms……. especially those from other cultures that I don’t understand!

  19. where warm waters halt. warm can be cold also,as snow when melted is water,yet you can build a shelter out of snow to keep you warm.water is clear,transparent.but warm, can be a warm color in art.sometimes we have rivers that have that warm color,brownish,redish,etc.just kinda throwing some things out there to think about. could it be where cold waters halt? you know mr. forrest .below,,above.you just don’t know,hard to decipher.

  20. Hi everyone,

    Hoping it is warming up over there for you all. Winter almost here in Oz brrr.

    IMO I think WWWH is a waterfall, why-

    Forrest Fenn has a pond at his place with trout in it. (pls correct me if I am wrong). He also has a waterfall which runs in to the pond, why? Because it cools the pond water for the trout. It is an economic way to keep ponds and pools cool. Google a swimming pool site on how to keep it cool. They will say put a waterfall in. I would surmise that Forrest is quite aware of this.

    I also think that water rushing over a cliff comes to a halt in the much cooler still pond below.

    That’s my 2 cents worth,

    cheers to y’all.

  21. Pip-
    There are no trout in Forrest’s pond. He tells us the water is too warm for trout. He keeps other kinds of fish in it and apparently he purchased some ducks this spring for it.

  22. I honestly think that much of this dicusssion is baesd on too much reading between the lines of the poem. I have not read either of the Fenn’s books on this topic, but I have two questions to pose based on what information I have gained from the posts I have read even though I have not researched the posts entirely. Therefore, I have two qustions to pose:
    1. Is there any mention of fly fishing?
    2. I sthere any mention of a bank?
    If the answer is yes to both questions, I may be able to help.

    • Yes, lots of references/stories relating to fly fishing. Which definition of the word “bank” interests you?

      By the way, both books are worth the money. Get TTOTC from Collected Works Bookstore in Santa Fe and TFTW from Dal Neitzel.

    • Yes, Richard to both your questions.

      There is a chapter in TTOTC the is called – Father on the Blanco.

      Some think blanco means a bench and some think it means a bank. I think it means both.

      Fly-fishing is all over the book and here on Dal’s blog and in the scrapbooks.

      Please let me know why you are questioning these things – OK?

      Welcome and good luck.

  23. speeking of warm water halts, has anyone seen the website wherewarmwatershalt.com? I stumbled across it a few days back and it had a picture of a man holding a long stick or rifle with mountains behind him. It also had what looked like hieroglyphics of a water fall, a tree, a square sun and a turtle. I had no idea what to think of it and now its a barn with two horseshoes, a coca cola poster, dr. pepper poster, american flag, montana poster and three grave stones. Do you think it relates to the chase or have i finally gone to deep in my own chase?

    • Nobody seems to know for sure, but if you cruise over to “Looking in Montana and Wyoming” there was a recent discussion that covers the most prevalent theory.

    • Discovered the site over the weekend. Looks to me like a collection of random garbage that is close enough to the chase and vague enough to make people wonder if there is something there. I think it’s a publicity stunt and distraction from the key source material that’s already out there.

    • Hi there Luckydc77, not sure if you knew this or not…
      If you click on the frog, a creepy voice of a child and man begins. There should also be some music playing in the background..
      Bells, drums ect….
      Maybe a prank or maybe not.
      My question regarding this site is, what the heck is CP’s toe???

      • SISPISTOO is Blackfeet for Owl. So it is saying clever is the one who looks to the owl.

        • hi i been busy with hubby where did you find this. i not trying to question the fact i just like to the reference for it. thanks

      • That site is bogus IMO, just someone trying to generate hits so he can sell the domain, or some troll playing with everyone. Following that site will likely lead you nowhere, but power to ya 🙂

    • I think others have posted in other threads on Dal’s blog about this site – their speculations, et al. Currently there is a count down clock with a little over 19 hours left on it and a low rumbling noise coming out of your speakers.

      I went looking for the pictures and found the clock that others have mentioned.

    • Making my way through all of the comments. The page today seems to be nothing more than an American Flag.

  24. I haven’t had a chance to read either book yet. From anyone who knows or has read them, was his dad also an avid fisherman? Did he teach Forrest to fish?

  25. Dal,
    Where did Forest say that millions pass within 500 feet of the treasure? (your statement near the top). I realize that he said several have been within 200 feet (I think he said that somewhere), but where do we get info that so many have been within 500 feet?
    Thank you.

    • Need-to-Focus, you need to focus on what Dal said. He stated several times: I don’t think, I do think, I think, I believe, what I believe, in my tiny mind, etc. etc.

      He also said, “or quite possibly..I am entirely wrong…and I have been using the wrong WWWH.”

      In my opinion he made it abundantly clear what he said was his opinion.

      • OK I see now what you meant. This is one reason I gave my self the name need-to-focus. I have trouble focusing and I am particularly poor at concentrating while in the field.

  26. Warm water halts at a dam, shore, bank, an edge, twigs and sticks.

    The name of the location is in the poem.

    The blazes are in the poem.

    The city and state are in the poem.

    Email me if you need help janicemvsmith@gmail.com


  27. Fellow Bloggers,
    All this is IMO, but I believe that WWWH is spelled out for us in a very round about way in the book TTOTC. You have to think about it. Not complicated at all. And Dal is on the right track.IMO. I could tell you but I won’t at this point. It is a perfect fit that will give you great confidence once you figure it out. Okay you naysayers. Have at it. I said” IMO ” and I never underestimate anyone. I believe that this can be solved by any intelligent person with a little imagination.


    • Well bummer. I either have no intelligence or I lack even a little imagination.

      Could be both I suppose. 🙂


      • Scotty
        I wasn’t questioning anyone’s intelligence.
        I don’t claim to be highly intelligent, myself. I’m just saying ” I’m fairly certain TTOTC tells us where WWWH. Ask yourself some questions about the stories? As you read them.
        Not trying to be a smart aleck or anything like that. All you gotta do is think it through. Also I could be wrong! Wouldn’t be the first time.

    • I don’t have the book. FF says I don’t need the book. I’m not paying $20+ to get the book shipped to me.

      I don’t need the book.

        • I just started about 3 days ago. I have a lot to catch up on. I suppose, that within a week or two I’ll feel caught up. At that time, I probably be stalled and decide it is a good time to start reading the books. Ordering them now. Anyway, doesn’t seem fitting to get involved in the search and miss the big picture which is FF life story, why he hid it, and what he has to say. A thought just entered my mind that if the treasure is not found for many more years, and FF has died, there’ll be a lot of talk that all of this was a scam to make him some money from the books. 🙂 I don’t believe that for a second at this point.

  28. People don’t listen like they should… That’s what ff has counted on! IMHO

  29. Hey thanks, Peacemaker!

    Today’s “comprehensive knowledge of geography” lesson is HOLT. A holt is a wood or grove, a copse, or a wooded hill. Brave and in the holt, anyone? http://www.thefreedictionary.com/holt

    Only one letter away from being halt! And if you say Where Warm Waters Halt with a British accent, it kind of sounds like holt……

    But that’s probably just a coincidence….

  30. here me all and listen good.

    say “where warm waters halt” out loud

    i found myself saying “where warm waters salt” meaning where a river dries up?

  31. One thing that I have found so curious…. I have questioned it over and over. I have told myself, “WHY!? Why hasn’t anyone mentioned my WWWH ?” Closing in on 8 months now, not one searcher has commented on it in any blog. Of course I cannot say, for those beginning to ask me, atleast until I make this trip out to it, sometime in June (hint hint). As I’ve promised…. July 4th, if I don’t have the chest I’ll reveal what I know and maybe it will help some of you in your thinking.

    • “WHY!? Why hasn’t anyone mentioned my WWWH ?” IW
      Two reasons:
      1) Same reason you haven’t mentioned it
      2) Your WWWH is so far out there, no one will ever repeat it – usually not a good thing.

    • Iron,

      I too have the same “issue”. Not one person has mentioned my WWWH, that I can find, on any blog.

      My guess is that if others have the same one, it certainly explains why their lips are sealed.

      Perhaps yours is the same as mine. If so, I would appreciate it if you didn’t reveal it in July. 🙂

      I’ll be searching in June too, but I might not be ready to give up on the spot if I don’t find it. All depends on how the lay of the land pans out.

      Scott W

      • LOL that is funny Q1werty2, My name is William S. and guess what the “S” stands for ? ironwilly@gmail.com you can email me your WWWH if you want, after this trip in June I wont have finances to look further so you’re safe 😛

        • Will,

          I just can’t share that right now; not yet. I’ll let you you know AFTER I check it out on my own.

          Let me ask you this. Does your blaze have an odd name?

          Just trying to figure out if we are in the same spot.

          Scott W.

          • I’m in the same boat with you two. Could you tell me what you mean by odd name? Is it the letters in the name like 3,5,7,9,11 or odd as in a strange name?

          • No My blaze doesn’t have an odd name. Actually, every person in this chase has seen it’s name at least once, certainly more than several if they’ve done what Forrest has told them to do.

      • Scooter,
        i just came up with an original WWWH yesterday. How the heck does WordPress even work? I signed up thinking I could get in contact w/ you, POG/ Pirate of Gold has his own blog that’s linked somehow with WordPress, so I read some of his rants. Wouldn’t mind bouncing some ideas off you,

    • Iron,
      Quote: “I have told myself, “WHY!? Why hasn’t anyone mentioned my WWWH ?” Closing in on 8 months now, not one searcher has commented on it in any blog. ”

      I must have missed your promised solve if you finally posted it.. Did you post it after your trip this month or was it April? I recall you were holding it back for some reason.

      If you are still holding back on sharing that solve then what is it that we should be asking you?

      Let me try now, Iron I (anyone) now mention your WWWH. Now will you explain?

      I just don’t get the “sharing info rules” (imposed by some and not by this site/dal.)

    • Iron

      We have no idea what your Wwwh is. Give us a small hint so we can sit back and think 🙂

      • Ok Amy, you know how Forrest talks about a blaze could be a white this or a white that? ……NOPE 😛

        • Disagree Will. I believe I found a “white blaze”, and only one has commented. I see how easy it is to see some things, and others, right by me. I feel smart sometimes, and dumb the next. I’ve laughed and I’ve cried. I’ve got stories and memories galore. I’ve lived through when I thought I would’ve died…lol, and I have learned SO much. My husband says I’m a kook when I start “explaining things in poetry”, as he says, and sometimes I think he might be right. But nonetheless, will, look page 2, found objects. I call it the “table ace”, in my solve.

          • WWWH=Blaze
            There may be something YOU think is a “blaze”, but in the poem, I believe the blaze is a collection of hints and clues that fit into a general area (small) that only exists in history. Sorta like the T.S. Eliot quote that FF used. You will know where you are, but you wont know the significance of where you are until you solve the poem. The ending and beginning are the same, but not the same place.. (in my own words).. That is why it is difficult.

          • I agree with your theory of the blaze as well, hammer. Like a forest fire, a blaze of clues. And, IMO, it goes on to another layer, another blaze, if you will.

          • Jd- There is definitely layer upon layer of activity. I dont think Forrest is going to let the finder get away with the chest, without gaining a lot of knowlege.

  32. Tomorrow, May 27th at Collected Works Bookshop in Santa Fe, Mayor Javier Gonzales of that fair town, will be recognizing Forrest with the official proclamation of “Thrill of the Chase Day” in Santa Fe. It happens at 3pm..be there if you can…Looking forward to photos and a description of the event from someone…

    BTW: The actual Thrill of the Chase Day is Friday, May 29th in the sleepy little pueblo of Santa Fe.

    • So absolutely awesome!!! I am at my best at 3 anytime but can’t be there in person. Happy TTOTC Day!!

      So between tomorrow the 27th and Friday the 29th is May 28th our 27th Anniversary!! I am so confused!

      Hope you have a great day and many more to come!

    • How wonderful and congratulations to Forrest. Hoping much merriment is had by all.

    • That is so wonderful. I would be there if I weren’t so far away. Congrats to you Forrest. 🙂

    • Sad to have all the new publicity and not have any TTOTC in stock. Been waiting a month for mine, my guess is they use a printer in the middle east to save money due to all the pictures in it, unfortunately that means months for a reprint 🙁

      • I wonder why the stock used by the thieves on Amazon selling it for $100 seems to rise. I would hope that they limit the sales to 1 per customer during times of high demand. I would not pay someone 3 or 4x value, shame how people try to capitalize off the sales.

        • Also, two weeks ago the people on Amazon trying to cash in for $135 a copy had only one “new” in stock, this week they have 14 “new” in stock for $97 each. That isn’t nonsense, clearly peole are getting orders filled in order to resell them at a higher price. Don’t go around calling people foolish and saying they post nonsense without first doing your own research!

          • Tony you wrote: “my guess is they use a printer in the middle east to save money due to all the pictures in it, unfortunately that means months for a reprint”

            That is the nonsense I’m talking about due to your lack of research.

            As far as someone making a buck; it’s called supply and demand. It is how Fenn made his money; take a risk and buy something; then sell if for more than he paid for it. It’s what made it possible for him to hide the treasure you are searching for.

            Now that’s not so bad is it?

          • No Goofy, nothing wrong with investing.

            TTOTC inspired me to make my very own first investments – a tiny bit of gold, and a foundational internet investment. I can hold both and hope they’re worth something in years to come. If not, it was fun anyway.

      • Been waiting a month? You probably may want to check on it then. I ordered my book two week ago from collective works and have had the book for about 5 days.

        • Thanks for the intelligent reply! I contacted them today and told them what you said, they are going to have my order shipped from the bindery tomorrow and apologized for the delay!

    • Enjoy your award reception this afternoon forrest! Wish I could be there! 🙂

  33. Halt is derived from old german halz. Perhaps the starting point will also have a german sounding name.

    • YSREBOB, you a moving in the right direction, IMO. Searchers are not seeing words by their “origin” only how they know the meaning in English. There are some statements that Forrest has said, especially in the TTOTC book, that makes the statements totally different if you put in what the origin meaning was (derived from) of the key word in it’s place, if you understand me. I could tell you a few but that would give some helpful hints away. Forrest said in the TTOTC book- “I tend to use words that aren’t in the dictionary, and others that are, I “bend” a little”……”the fact that one of my natural instincts is to “embellish” just a little”. If you keep this in mind when reading, and challenge the words in statements made that are not the norm then, you will see things in a different light. Bur

      • Hi Bur –

        So good to see you posting here.

        Well, the world goes round and round and differences of opinions do too. What you said above does make sense –
        but – he said the poem was straight forward – and I think I have found that to be so true.

        The words he used to describe the area for WWWH and HOB and the finale place are all exactly – in the poem.

        The some of blaze words are not in the poem but can also be found in another way.

        Just my humble little ole opinion.

        How’s Florida?

        • Hi Inthechaseto, I was referring to words in statements in the book, not the poem. Yes your right, the poem is straight forward to me too. Bur

          • Oh to answer your question, Florida is good but starting to heat up. I was in the mountains of Colorado a few weeks ago and got snowed on a couple of times but the area was wonderful. Going back out when the snow is completely gone. I don’t post much anymore but tend to lurk, I have a hard time not commenting on things I see that pertain to the solve IMO, but if I got started talking I just my say things to help others with my ideas and my area will be searched before I get there. LOL Bur

      • Bur, I think you’re right. Even middle english may have a play. Good source for all may be wordnik, for origins.

  34. If you buy into the ice theory then the starting point could be a glacier or someplace that use to have glaciers.

  35. Hi All,
    I’ve been treading in my warm water solution for over a year and have not seen it mentioned anywhere either. No plans to flush it yet though – it’s a solid (solve) for this clue – IMO. It (my WWWH solution) also works with people having figured out the first two clues and not realizing the significance.

    Hey – perhaps it would help if we revisit what Mr. Fenn said regarding WWWH:

    “If you don’t know ‘where warm water halts’, you don’t have anything.”

    “You need to start at the beginning. You need to figure out where warm waters halt.”

    “Many searchers have thought that warm waters halt at a dam because water being released through flues near the bottom of the dam is much colder than water on the surface of the lake. I have discussed around that subject with several people in the last few days and am concerned that not all searchers are aware of what has been said. So to level the playing field to give everyone an equal chance I will say now that WWWH is not related to any dam.” May 2014

    “There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts.” Aug 2014

    And didn’t Mr. Fenn say something like: ‘ . . . thousands of people pass by it each day . . ‘ Can anyone confirm that please?


  36. WWWH is very simple if you just think about it – Im going to go on the 3rd but now im in the hospital so im not able to leave til then –

    The eager beaver

  37. I understand that when books were back ordered, people made money off of their copies. Good for them.

    Now, people are making money by picking up books and reselling them because of the high shipping rates charged by Collected Works! Charging $21.50 for the cheapest shipping option is absurd. Why rip off the out of town customers?
    USPS media rates are cheap!

      • Hi spallies –

        USPS priority mail shipping is now quoted as $32.00 for shipping one book (TTOTC) by Collected Works!

        I put in a couple of locations on the east coast and west coast to double check the rates because I was so surprised. Might be cheaper for some states I didn’t check??

        I could live with $13 shipping but at $21.50 for FedEx ground, and $32.00 shipping charge for USPS……That is way beyond reasonable. Is it a mistake or is Collected works gouging the out of towners?

        It’s cheaper now to buy from (some of ) the online book scalpers!

        • PS – I just checked rates at USPS.

          Sending by media mail, coast to coast, for a 2 lb. package is $3.17.

  38. GreenHiker, my partner has both (new) books which ff was unable to sign. She may be willing to sell them to you and ship via USPS book rate.

    You can find many pages from TTOTC free on-line if you do a google search.

      • @ GreenHiker – I asked my partner and she’s keeping her copies in case we make a trip to Santa Fe to have Forrest sign them.

        I’d sell you mine (now that I’ve memorized them), but they are worth ALOT since they are signed by ff and contain my notes for the winning solve! LOL

  39. Imho, ‘where warm waters halt’, is a ref to the NM fish and game dept. map that separates warm/cold game fishing.
    with halt being the actual delineation or line on the map.
    the clue is not actually specific, just more of a starter point and can only be narrowed down by the clues that follow.
    and yes, i said in NM…, because an 80 somthing yr old man drove to the area from his home and walked to the hiding spot from his car.
    ii say this as i seem to recall an interview with Mr. Fenn in which he said ‘he was proud of his accomplishment and laughed out loud as he walked back to his car, and wished that he had thought to bring a sandwich to lunch on’.

    • Hey Texas,
      I don’t believe it has ever been said that Mr. Fenn drove from his home to spot, just that he walked to the spot from his car. That being said, I’m of the same opinion about warm waters. I’m trying to discuss that a bit over on the Nine Clues page.

  40. Back on topic… An asterisk is a kind of literary halt. One halts, is redirected to a point of note, then returns to the main text. You know the topic of your reading better because of the halt you’ve taken.
    See pg 76… astrisk pgh. Might a small local memorial be an asterisk to the library of names on that big wall? Perhaps even a stone with a title like Liberty Cap, (Yellowstone.) There are plenty others. Those kinds of halts/astrisks are under warm salt water… for a generation or two. Will they go cold & dry? Did the Lincoln memorial? The answers Fenn ‘already knows” is the Important Literature. IMO of course.

    • OS, I like the way you are thinking. You bring up some very interesting facts that are rarely discussed or considered.
      The Wolf

      • Thanks Wolf. Some lucky joker might find the TC using just the poem a map and darts. But Fenn’s answers are in the book, and I think they’re creative & logical, & that’s intriguing. I avoided the War chapter because of its sensitive & serious issues, then discovered falsities in the Philidelphia/Thumb story, so now I’m paying attention to it.

        • Very interesting OS, I too have focused on that chapter and that exact “Philidelphia/Thumb story”

          I would love to in hear your “falsities” for I too am focused on the aberrations and that incident is where I feel the answer lies.

          • Well, I put it out there on one of the threads, but don’t remember if its on Nines or WWWH or somewhere else. The two 13’s, (pg 96) July 13, 1956 & 13 years earlier, caught my eye. Turns out, it was a Friday the 13th too. Hmmmm. On that date Stephensville airport was known by a different name. And I wondered, with a helmet & oxy mask, would a left thumb over a left eye to look hard right… strain the neck? And credulity? Tiny flaws, but they were accruing. 9clues response cinched it – that plane didn’t carry enough fuel to make it to Pope. So why a false story? Why block out Philly, the city of brotherly love? Did it have something to do with Skippy or a Band of Brothers? I settled on a long view to Colorado. Because in ‘Biddys’, mom was a “perfect example of natures long sightedness.” However, “step on a crack, break your mothers back” always sounded more like jingle a June would sing than a Forrest. But now those cracks and bricks and blocks might describe state lines. I could follow the latitude of Philly to Colorado, but I stopped in Kansas to check out Toledo, oops, too low. So I caught a a train in Atchison and though about Hit Parade lyrics. It was 1946, Judy Garland was a doll, & Forrest was 16. Hey brother, Do you hear that whistle coming down the line?
            Pool game with a Harvey heir, Ha!

  41. I will tell you all where I believe WWWH to be…. as no one has mentioned.

    Ask yourself… “Self, where are waters warm?”

    Self responds, “Grasshopper, waters are not warm where, but…when.”

    Two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead…

    Forrest’s sister is no longer among the living and is his special memory.

    • Golly Gee Will, yet again your genius seems to be eluding the masses. How ever on earth did you manage to deduce that??

      @ The Wolf: Yet again, you were correct!! 🙂

  42. All,

    My WWWH theory is that synonyms for “warm” are cozy, snug, friendly etc., therefor I assumed that the opposite would be uncomfortable, angry etc. so I came up with white water rapids or angry water as WWWH. So maybe in your solves look for white water rafting “put ins” for you WWWH theories, it has definitely worked for me and my solves.


  43. Forrest is looking for a 1935 Plymouth in drivable condition..
    If you have one contact Forrest..
    If you know somebody who has one..have them contact Forrest..
    Forrest never haggles…

      • Nice interview, couple of new things:
        – he said he took the gold/jewels out first and then the chest (before it was just two trips).
        – A clue will point you to the treasure chest and a hint will just help you with the clues.

        Also this is the second Freudian slip where he said he buried it and then corrected himself with hidden. He has been steadfast in conviction that he didn’t want to give that away as a clue, but that is twice now he has been caught using buried.

        The subconscious mind always reverts to the truth.
        The Wolf

        • I noticed that slip as well. I haven’t really cared whether it is buried or hidden simply because I believe if you find the blaze you won’t have much trouble finding it but I am definitely leaning towards buried now. He has made the distinction between clues and hints several times in the past though.

          • A can do attitude will get it done. I call it cattitude 🙂 you gotta have eyes to see the lbaze

        • I just now listened to the interview, IMO when he say ‘buried’ he is referring to what other folks are asking him, sort of like it’s the most common expression: “Hey where is the chest buried.”…IMO it’s not a slip, just a common thought. In a previous interview IMO he did slip when he said above 7000 feet then corrected and said 5,000. Anyhow, this most recent interview is there on the link just type in on the radio stations search box FF. Left me with still feeling strong about NM as location. Also, in this interview he states he will not be giving out any more clues. Oh, and he confirms the weight of the chest, weigh more heavy than I’d imagined. New book is about a Russian artist who lived in Taos years ago. It’s late, I got no clue!

  44. Everyone else enjoy the radio interview? I thought it was great hearing stories about F’s art gallery days which I had not previously heard. Forrest guaranteed the reality of the chest being out there; but again he spoke with firm conviction about taking it with him (that always confuses me). How can someone else find/keep the TC if he’s taking it with him? Maybe he’ll tell me if I find him a 1935 Plymouth

  45. Has anybody consider this? Where warm waters halt could be in the March. When somebody marches they tend to halt. What warm waters halt on March? I think it is in the spring,and in the spring. Maybe?! RC

  46. I want to read every comment every made on this topic. I am having trouble figuring out how to do that.

    All I can see are the postings from the last few days.

    • dooscuba-
      You need the WWWH Archive. In the categories on the right side, top of this page “Searchers Discussions” click on that and it will take you to a list of subcategories..among them is WWWH Archive…click on that..

  47. The WWWH site has changed. If this site is not related to TTOTC why would the young man quote The TTOTC poem, Who ever is behind this site is very intelligent and connected. No one is supposed to know where the treasure is but Forrest Fenn. But this site seems to want to lead us somewhere as if they know the solve, either to the treasure or away from it. Was it created to make us spend valuable time to its end?

    The site is very interesting however. The Whistler radio site for shows did not have the story listed to play,what is stated as being the show’s title. The Owl is always watching you “OVO” See Him?

    I find where warm water halts, a very complicated question. The 20 miles of canyon between the bottom of Colorado and NM. Involving the lower Basin where all warm water halts, before it begins to cool with waters flowing into it The canyons of NM and exiting cooler. What exact point this cooliziation occurs is not clear, is it? No that’s not a word, I made it up.i think, LOL This embellishes a thought. A thought not mentioned.

    The Colorado river has value as to the supply for NM’s water. The Rio grand and muddy river have a significant value. A waterfall, may be important to the solve also a dry creek somewhere with a blaze. What is your blaze? The answer to all to be found. It must be, all together known to solve. Do we have to jump the fence?

    I believe people have searched this area and came home empty handed. After all it is a very small hidden target in a very big spacious world.

    Then again Montana holds its very own WWWH special memory, specifically where Forest used to bath on the fire hole river . He explains how delightful the experience of bathing and moving to cooler water was. Dal has experienced this live ,for himself. He was probable 200 feet away from the treasure with or without soap. What no soap!

    I believe we have to jumped on some form of transportation, that is taking us into another world. Is this where, we will find it. Maybe we have to take a helicopter ride, sounds like fun to me. I think Dal knows how much fun it is.

    The home of Brown. Hello Mr Brown I hear you have been placed in charge of a treasure I seek. Yes I brought a bottle as requested by MR Ozz,

    Lets drink and view this special delight. Oh to beauty of this splendid site, cheers to all, and a very good night. Find me I’m not hidden ! –0*o are you ? http://forestfennsworld.com

    • leave to out above by I believe. I do believe. I wish we could edit. I always seem to need to in life. I always forget to check the boxes to. I told you my brain is brown. Lol

      • That is soooo funny, I just discovered that site yesterday morning, and now it’s being linked 😯

          • Right???
            I’m up to let’s see,
            I think 7 websites that are “curious”, and I can’t Crack that darn password yet! How but you, will?

          • Yeah I gave up on that password, but for an interesting reason. I thought, “what if this is some person trying to get information from searchers?” We have our ideas, and we try throwing key words from our own searches into the password line, and its recorded for that owner. They then, go over it all, and perhaps are able to clue in on your solution, that you’ve kept so quiet. I decided that it’s best if I just keep any keywords out of their hands 😛

          • Makes sense, but I don’t care about any of that the way I figure it good luck!

        • Thank you Sissel, I have been researching all of this with viggar to try to catch up. I am 4 years behind. I know I have a long way to go. But I try. I may have shared a few facts, that research has relieved, facts that I found out yesterday, Dal has shared in the past, As I went and read his archive on the subject due to his post of how to find it. Thanks Dal for the Pic and the great stories you tell. It looks mighty baron or void of trees. one thing Forrest said he would see. But it may look different on the ground. Thank you again for the complement, Good luck to all J B.

  48. Good to see that Forrest and family are in fine shape. Cindy thanks for sharing!

  49. Some days back I commented on WWWH,and hinting on the word Halt as importat.That wwwh for me was related to hot springs and my solve gives me one location to find the blaze.However on further hard thought in past days I have decided on another wwwh not related with hot springs and that takes me to two other locations for my blaze.
    Hence I have two alternatives as wwwh to work on ,,though the second wwwh alternative / with one of the possible resulting blaze location/ seem more convincing at the moment….But the definition of my blaze is the same in all my solves,,in fact I have decided on the definition of my blaze a year ago and the problem has always been to pin down its location based on wwwh…HOB as I said earlier is a “local” definition for me and not a “global” one.

    Tintin treasure

  50. I’m looking for someone to team up with in search of the Treasure and believe I have the winning solve to ALL the clues but I have stage 4 cancer and do not drive – I have funds for public transportation to meet up though as the chest is still a long hike from public transportation 🙂

    E-mail me if you are interested

  51. when it comes to WWWH, i have seen many comment on how a dam could be the reasoning for where WWWH. But then FF says the treasure is not associated with any man made structure. So my question is, does he mean that just the location of the treasure is not associated with a man made structure, or does the entire journey that Fenn’s poem takes us on have no interaction with man made structures? If it is just the hiding place, then dams are still in play. Not that my solve has or doesnt have anything to do with a dam, but it may alter it a bit if I could hear everyone’s opinions. Thanks for reading

  52. Thinking of a child’s take on the clues, has anyone mentioned wwwh as possibly being a bathtub or sink? Basin or drain?

    • Mosey-
      I have..and so have others. I looked up and found many places associated with the name bathtub..bathtub springs Indian bathtub…etc..
      But only one of them allowed me an opportunity to follow the other clues away from it..
      The one that did took me out of the mountains and off the map..
      I stopped looking at bathtubs..

      • Ahh..thanks Dal. I’m wondering if there are any original thoughts left! Lol! Good luck in your chase, from another Washingtonian!

      • I just got back from a couple weeks of treasure hunting and have come to some new guesses. I discovered Kelly Warm Springs (Warm water spring 50 feet wide and several hundred long) which runs off to just below the Mormon Row (Home of John Brown) historical site in Grand Teton. I was a little surprised to find a Beaver Creek just across the Snake River which has a well hidden “Blazed” trail leading up Avalanche Canyon which houses bears, moose and a large waterfall. Have you tried that area yet?

    • Mosey – you could try looking at geographic landforms mapped or known as ‘basins’

      • Hi lia!
        I should start with the Great Divide Basin in Wyoming. It only covers an itty-bitty 4000 square miles!

  53. My two cents on where warm waters halt : there were many real good posts on this issue for sure. I had two ideas and one has already been mentioned and that was where FF took his outdoor baths at the spring when he was a youngster. Warm water enters into the pool hot but it cools and then is basically just a spring not a hot one. So the warm waters end or halt. The other thought was a sign posting a hot spring or the like. Look up halt in the dictionary.

  54. Ok, this is the first time ai ever heard of this treasure. But since the treasure has reference to ancient objects, and since he collects antiques, I have an idea. Warm waters may be refering to “aguas calientes” a place in Peru that has an old train station, where train halts. This place is close tp machupichu, the popular City of the Incas. Just a thought.

  55. thinking about where warm waters halt….what if it’s not warm flowing down stream into cold/cooler waters but warm water halting at an upstream location where cold mountain water collides….and then take a canyon down (down = south)….Still wondering about Home of Brown, something that would still be around several hundred years from now…
    Things sure got quiet around here!

  56. @Cholly & ECWaters,

    Thanks for posting a link to Fechins ‘Lady with the Lute” The subject appears like she secretly knows where fenn’s loot is hidden.

    Were you able to find any additional information written about hidden symbology in that portrait?

    Peggy and Forrest are so young in that photograph. It would be fun to hear Forrest tell the story about acquiring paintings of large note on a gallery budget of small note$.

    • Yes the lute has a hole in it and let’s not forget their leaned up against a wall I’d be interested in the picture below of farmer with coveralls. Why is only part of it visible and why is it so low maybe below has meaning as in put in below the home of Brown.

      • Many veiled hints…
        Perhaps a reference to the TC being concealed in a hide or a cross reference to the photo of Forrest at jungle survival school with the tiger skin staked (cat on a hot tin roof) anchored with rocks.

        Because of his use of double entendre, perhaps the hole of the lute is covered with hide and rocks over the hideyhole

        Stake a hide
        Keep your eyes/I’s on the tiger /eye on thrill of the prize.
        Tin coats or foils other metals/
        Treasure in a coat
        Indigenous/dig in
        Smoking/smoked hide

        (Just thoughts)

    • Adding to the tiger skin on tin roof discussion; interesting discussion about tin and its ability to preserve other metals from oxidation…

      Tin. An elementary substance found as an oxide in the mineral cassiterite, and reduced as a soft silvery-white crystalline metal, with a tinge of yellowish-blue, and a high luster. It is malleable at ordinary temperatures, but brittle when heated. it melts at 4420, and at a higher temperature burns with a “brilliant white light.” Air and moisture act on tin very slightly. The peculiar properties of tin, especially its malleability, its brilliancy and the slowness with which it rusts make it very serviceable. With other metals it forms valuable alloys, as bronze, gun metal, bell metal, pewter and solder. It is not easily oxidized in the air, and is used chiefly to coat iron to protect it from rusting, in the form of tin foil with mercury to form the reflective surface of mirrors, and in solder, bronze, speculum metal, and other alloys. Its compounds are designated as stannous, or stannic. Symbol Sn (Stannum). Atomic weight 117.4.

      n. Money.

      (I used to cover distributor caps of my old VW in tin foil before driving through the car wash) wonder if the bronze chest is foiled in tin.

  57. halt to me means to stop with intent to move later , stop I believe means to stay. did you think of the Jamez area namely spas where water is treated before
    it is released I believe it is released after cleaning down through a canyon



  58. all,

    Wanted to people’s input on a thought I had concerning WWWH and the line that follows:

    Begin it where warm waters halt
    And take it in the canyon down.

    As this is one complete sentence should we see/read these two lines as one single clue and that they are connected, meaning should whatever, wherever or whenever WWWH halts is: should WWWH not then be found within the canyon that we must go “down”?

    what are your thoughts?



    • all,

      Another curious thing about the line: “Begin it where warm waters halt” is that waters are plural and therefore so is halt. If FF would have said “Begin it where warm water halts” he would have meant water singularly, if this makes any sense.

      So it leads me to believe that the clue possibly means where several “waters” i.e. creeks, rivers, streams whatever halt as in “ending” at a possible confluence or even lake or reservoir.

      Now before someone corrects me by saying that FF has already said WWWH is not a “dam” this theory could still possibly hold true and FF could just be playing a word game with us: because as where said streams ended or halted would be as they enter the confluence, lake and or reservoir and not necessarily the dam itself, as the dam only holds back said reservoir/lake waters.

      Food for thought, just stirring our already muddy/Brown waters :).


      • Or he used the plural waters because he needed an “s” placed at that position in the poem.

      • all,

        Another thing that strikes me about this train of thought is he uses plural waters in the second stanza, but then in the third stanza he uses water in the singular.

        it leads me to believe that there are plural waters @ WWWH and just a singular water high up your creek.

        food for thought.


    • Seannm,

      I use to keep comment, statement and quotes, But unfortunately my old PC crashed losing That information and i no longer keep those at the ready.

      But I’ll attempt to give my thoughts… Fenn had a reading o the poem one of the book signings, i believe… maybe check out toby’s blog for the exact reading… But as he read she stopped in the second stanza and stated { paraphrasing} there’s at least three or four clues right there.

      My problem has always been… What is a clue to Mr. Fenn? Ten again, I don’t see clues as most do. I see a lot of information that leads to 9 specific clues.

      • Seeker,

        His reference to nine clues could easily be read as there are nine sentences one clue per sentence, but then that is just Forrest being Forrest and his play on words. It depends on how you, I and Forrest interprets the word clue.

        I believe he wanted to keep it easy and just say nine clues as there are nine sentences, simple as that.

        Some say “Just heavy loads and water high.” is one clue while others say its two. but that entire stanza is one sentence and could have meant a single clue to Forrest.

        I have not seen that video that you are referring to and I thought that I have watched everything that was out there. I do however think that in the Moby Dickens interview (11-02-13) when Forrest reads the poem (by memory @ 18:40) he stumbles and forgets the last three lines in the poem. This leads me to believe that last stanza may not have much importance in it as even Forrest has forgotten those lines.


          • Uken2it,
            For the sake of accuracy, It should be noted: when that interview taped ff was still including the Canadian Rockies in his search area.

            So, can everything else which he stated in the interview be included as factual, or more like generalizations in an attempt not to give anything away?

          • Anna,
            I am not sure what you mean. Is it, since f hadn’t narrowed the states down yet that the mention of the three or four clues should not be taken as inaccurate? I take his comment at face value. In another interview when asked about this f asked if he really said that but if I did it must be true. Very loose recollection-caution.

          • Hi There Uken2it! I had not heard this interview. Thankx so much for sharing. Very Interesting….I do believe Brown is a key word. If not THE KEY? Because forrest has said if he told us what Brown was or is, we would go right to the treasure. So Brown is BIG!
            Happy Hunting all. So many places, so little time.

            Lou Lee is my name…Treasure hunting is my game. 🙂

          • @Lou Lee,

            Yes HOB is key my first solve led me to believe as many people do that Brown referred to Brown trout, but I have since broadened my search of HOB to include ancient Native American adobe structures such as Taos Pueblo.


    • @Seannm regarding WWWH being a man made dam, I have to go with Not man made as FF has said and I have to believe most of what he says or else go nuts! lol! Your post got me thinking, thanks! Begin where? Here. And do what? Go this way but wait that’s to far, better take the car to the next pull out and take a look around for Brown and it it looks to rough then go for it! Thanks for the picture of the Peace sign too! P.S. to the blog master(s) there is some sort of glitch in the post here as there are older post from May still at the bottom.

  59. All,

    In my research of WWWH I have come across another possibility and that is in the northern portion of the San Luis Valley above Alamosa Colorado is an endorheic or closed basin. If you research a closed basin it is a basin that water drains into but cannot drain out of except thru evaporation or ground seepage. Could be a possible WWWH?


    • What you should ask yourself is that if you were Forrest and wanted to hide a treasure that symbolized your life’s passion, at your favorite place on Earth for eternity, would this be the place???

      • That is a great question to ask, once a possible location of the chest is thought of or possible interpretation.

        But would the start of the clues [ example WWWH, should that be ] help in the actual place the chest lays in wait? as you said That would symbolized your life’s passion.

        If it was fly fishing sure, maybe… if it’s collecting, or artifacts maybe not so much… looking for the end before you know the beginning [ as fr as the clues are concern ] is more reverse engineering. It might work, but we been warned by the Author it’s not a good idea.

  60. I’ve been looking around on the site and can’t seem to find any info regarding the web page wherewarmwatershalt.com. Can someone tell me what the countdown represents?

    Thank you 🙂

    • Well it’s not associated with Forrest in any way(according to him), however… I did some searching on the site info and found that one of the administrators is Mr. Douglas Preston. There is a Douglas Preston who is a personal friend of Forrest, but as to whether they are one and the same….who knows? 🙁

      • That’s an interesting coincidence, Iron Will. He (the friend) was one of the authors that chose not to write Forrest’s book/story. Could be a lot of DP’s out there.

      • Hey buddy how sure are you? I got a hacker friend of mine tried to probe around to get info and the best he came up with is pretty much the same as everyone else. If Preston controls the site it would IMO for a release of a book. IMO I don’t think Forrest would put a count down clock on the chase.

          • Iron, that looks like the BBB report on Domains By Proxy, LLC not the wwwh website. Maybe I’m reading that wrong.

          • @Goofy, regarding this mystery wwwh web site with count down to 14 Aug, you and Dal have control over who post what here, right? What is this? Not Forrest’s B-day that is coming up on the 22nd, very creative what ever it is all about!

          • Cholly the site has been around a while and been discussed before. At one time folks thought it was linked to a guy that sold DVD’s on how to generate hits for a website so the name can be sold for more money.

            Personally I think it belongs to one of the major psychiatric drug manufactures because it seems to drive the obsessive folks crazy. 🙂

          • Domains by proxy is behind is the Domain server behind WWWH.com. Douglas Preston is the administrator.

            I’m just following bread crumbs 😛

    • @ararebird: I’ve been asking same question and wondering too. No one cares to answer. I finally listened to the radio play for a long enough period of time to hear some kid recite the entire poem with a bit of a British accent….I figured it was some one out of the country with a planned vacation coming to finalize their search….

    • @ararebird, it’s not related to f, but I speculate it could be someone’s book or reality TV concept, given the countdown.

      Where does your nom de plume originate? Phoenix? Plover? 😉

    • Never underestimate Forrest’s capabilities. He negotiated a art trade with Russia if you remember your history.

      IMO the August 15th countdown on wherewarmwatershalt.com is the the last bombing by American planes anywhere in Indochina takes place when B-52s strike a target in Cambodia.

      At one point long ago there where bands of yellow, red and green which if carefully studied would make the infinity symbol. I admit this was at the peak of my blog obsession. I have since waned my posts to return to my life balance.

      • My stepfather was a Master Sergeant in the Air Force working as a spook for the CIA running courier through Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam. He’s exactly Forrest’s age so in some ways I feel a connection the era very personally. I’ve had the privilege of meeting Forrest 4 times…each one was an adventure in and of itself.

        • I’ve never met the old fart
          but I’ll bet there’ll be
          a ruckus when I do…

      • 23k,
        It just might be that August 15th countdown is connected to the French burial markers f tripped upon. 1947 of Indochina wars

        • @23K (and anyone else) regarding the mystery countdown: I used a date/time/hour calculator and I get Aug 14th sometime after 7:00 P.M. guess it depends on international time lines (not that it matters!) I now recall seeing this person post earlier this summer with a warning that they were on their way to retrieve the TC and the countdown had started but can’t find that link now….anyhow, someone sure put a lot f time and energy into that site! I like listening to the radio program. Lately been reading the ‘archives’ interesting as always! Read where a lot of the posters shared who they were and from etc. WWWH no idea, still thinking and reading…..

          • i have a count down calendar for my own use to help keep track of the dates and to keep the wait from drive me nuttier and gave one to my grandson. and we are going searching in mid aug but we have nothing to do with this crazy page.

    • if you can make any sense of this page you should also be able to do Mr. F poem. its a count down page that ends on aug 14 th

  61. I just came up with the idea, to arrive at my solve in time to meet the deadline of the ticking clock. I’ll have timed photos. How strong is that? 🙂

    Now I’m anxious as a longed tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs…

    cats eat crow by the way…

      • Won’t be hard. Hope you are on the ground already ararebird. Your website is still ticking. You only have a few hours left!!! Tick Tick Tick. Oh yeah IMO. Wink.

  62. Def love that website. I have listened to the music for hours pondering and researching.

    That is when I came up with the idea that WWWH is in the painting by Eric Sloane “Canyon 1991”

    1991 is an hourglass on its side which is an indication of time standing still. You can view photos of Sloane’s studio and may notice he has several hour glasses on the mantel.

    The clouds of this painting are a classic Sloane work. They appear to be ready to drop warm desert rain on NM but never do, they just stand still and halt in time forever.

    These clouds also have a similar theme to the clouds of the painting f chose to use for the cover of the ES tribute book. The one with the kiva poles. If you look at the original painting of the kiva poles, not only is it reverse of the book cover but many other details are passed over. In the original, the kiva is more included and the key shape beneath is more golden. The key is in the chest, or the kiva is in the chest, or the key is in the chest, or the Kiva is in the box…. taos box!

    well enough freebies,

    all imo, fyi, ty, n gl,


    • That is where I search and I would love to tell more about it because in my opinion the chest is there all the clues fit this place and I go again for another search in couple weeks and I absolutely love it there I’ll tell my complete solve after I think this place was dear to Forrest and Eric but it is amazing from all the other places i have searched you can see the clues and even some hints as you get close when driving

  63. We all know that the end spot has some significance and is an important place for FF.

    Do you think the starting point has some importance as well – historical or otherwise – or is it just a place where warm waters happen to be halting?

    any ideas?

    • Maybe it is a place where his family went camping every year. Coincides with special event while camping?

    • I totally think you are asking the right question UA. The symbolism of the first and last should be the same… like the Omegas… like the cover of tftw could be BOTH the beginning and the end. Imo

      • so i wonder if the beginning and the end is the same place as it was mentioned many times . we start at the spot and make a loop and arrive at the same spot from a different direction.

        • @UA, no, in my opinion and solution. The beginning is a specific place. The end is a separate specific place. It is too far to walk from the beginning to the end.

          @decall, the double omegas will likely mean a few things, including the ending, “burning the candle at both ends”, but also 1600 miles from Temple, TX to West Yellowstone, MT.

          • Totally agree with flame at both ends (FF)
            Halt and cease are 2 of my omegas proving they are in different places I’ve found 2 other omegas in the poem too good to talk about

          • Not only that but Yellowstone has been kicking poor people out. When somebody gets close they get the boot. Like in national treasure they want to keep it and keep it hidden. That also brings in more money for them. I’m going there and pretending I’m rich.

          • @strawshadow, that hasn’t been my experience. I’m poor. They’ve allowed me to hang out off trail twice already this year, and one time last year. I think the money that’s going there is going there because it’s an unbelievable place to experience, and probably not significantly related to seeker economics. On the other hand, seeker economics has been acknowledged in Santa Fe, so what do I know?

          • EC they let you hang out because your cute. Now if you were cute and rich they would invite you in. And as far as Santa Fe goes,thank you Mr. Fenn.

        • I see it more like the Omegas are doors… entrance and exit on the stage of life. .. the twist is that FF doesn’t want to exit. That’s why he won’t ever wear the floating hat. Just my opinion

          • I see the omegas as a representation of the two times he was shot down. I feel each omega is tied to it. His life was at a fork in the road with every option or choice he made. If he would have choosed to walk out would we still have the chase?

            Every fork in the road changes our lives, I believe this is what the omegas are IMO

        • William, nice observation…I can see your point of Forrest almost being at the end of his life twice as the double Omega symbol our double horseshoes.

  64. and like numerous others on Dal’s blog believe I have a million dollar solution.

    NOTE: if you are an editor or movie producer looking for a million dollar solution with 2 years of intelligent research including maps within the poem and coordinates, email me: 4242 l e v e l @ g m a i l.com.

    You’ll not be disappointed. (I’m not interested in any chase related documentaries)

    Here are my comments in response to the latest question on Mystetious Writings:

    Ask yourself the right questions, not the obvious ones. Look closely at obscure meanings.

    1.Why was a “Stool” an apt ‘prop’? Keep in mind f’s numerous references to brown as forms of stool related to human bottoms.

    Why did FF use those words? Is he simply referring to “tools” used to display “loot” [backwards] or is there a muck deeper association with stool? His word choices and letter choices reveal everything in his poem.

    2. Why a chest sitting on a stool? – perhaps a landform? m=chest or twin buttes sitting atop a river bottom. Why wooden planks and nails which resemble a coffin or pirates plank? Maybe the chest simply sits below a wooden plank or pile of wood – but I personally doubt Forrest spent 10-15 years constructing his poem if it’s that simple.

    3. Why did FF select the name Agnes?
    common meaning of Agnes is lamb, innocent.
    How about ‘no place for the meek’ or page 109 TTOTC Chapter title “Teachers with ropes” Deconstruct the words as Forrest constructed them.
    Tea = at E; Cher=dearly beloved boy
    W.it.H = UUits8Eternity
    Perhaps Forrest’s secret he dares all to discover is a dearly beloved boy resting in peace at the treasured “chest” or twin buttes location at E (middle E frequency).

    Reply ↓

    • Unfortunately today that line is rather blurry for many seekers. Fortunately it’s clear to see.

    • WWWH when they turn to stone – literally. Water calcifies through a natural process which turns it into stalactites and stalagmites inside of caverns.


      Forrest went looking for Lewis and Clark. I also read that Forrest had explored so many caves that he developed a lung condition requiring medical assitance. He ruled out mines, but not caves.


          • Sally, he didn’t. He said it wasn’t in a mine, because of black widow spiders and other bad stuff. People were too quick to eliminate caves as well because they potentially have black widows in them too.

        • Chris, I, for one, have never heard f say it is not in a cave. He did say it is not in a mine though. Yes, there is a difference. Personally, IMO, Indulgence is not in a cave as much as it is not in a cave.

        • FF said not in a mine.

          A cave is a horse of a different color. But one may conclude that a cave is out of the picture…

          “Mr Fenn, in relation to the final resting place of the chest, which of the 4 natural elements (Earth, Wind, Water, Fire) would mostly compromise it resting? ~ James”

          “I know what the question is. I don’t think earth can hurt it, under the right conditions wind might affect it, it’s probably already wet, and look at what fire did to the twin towers. Nature makes her own rules, James, so I try to not be absolute when talking about her.”

          If fire was capable of reaching the chest, a cave may actually protect the chest from such action. Of course if you add 100’s of pound a jet fuel to the scenario anything is possible. Fenn later stated in the same Q&A

          “Don’t be too confused by my wind comment Jenny. Tornadoes are wind and there aren’t too many landscapes that they can’t change. I’ll admit there aren’t too many tornadoes in the Rocky Mountains, but they do occur once in a while. f”

          If wind[s] could affect the area the chest lays in wait. This may also rule out a cave. This is not the first time statements of similar wording has been said… can be scorch by fire… the chest is probably wet… open to the elements etc. etc.

          If you want to believe it’s in a cave, them by all means, that is your prerogative to do so.

  65. My thinking is that the Obsidian Cliffs were lava flows (warm water in a poetic sense) and then they quickly turned to solid (halting)….but after looking at a map…I can’t see any necessarily unique spot below there within less than 10 miles.

  66. warm waters halt in a plunge pool. Which happens to be the best place to find huge brown trout.

  67. Can someone shoot some holes in my WWWH. I have been going back to this clue over the past 4 years and have been thinking this has to be something really specific or the whole poem is just crap. I have thought through the a lot of things but Forest has said time and time again that you just need the poem. When I think about that and forgot all of the other things, it tells me that where warm waters halt has to be so specific that it is the only option on a map. So that is my thought.

    Now where I think WWWH. When I first heard that and every time since I have thought Yellowstone because the vast quantities of hot water that are in the area, but it’s not specific enough. So I thought, does all that water flow to one river? And why does it say Warm waters…

    It seems it flowed into three rivers Yellowstone, Gallatin, and the Madison. That might be an over simplified way of looking at it though. So I found that there is one place where the three watersheds come to together, it is at three rivers peak. That is where I believe warm waters halt.


    • Nate (and ohers like Nate),
      You only need to post a comment like this once. There is no need to post the same comment on multiple threads. Any serious searcher will see your comment wherever you post it, as we subscribe to most every thread. All you are doing is overloading the servers which are already overloaded. All of this being IMO, it is also my opinion that Goofy and Dal hold the same opinion.

  68. Hey all…longtime observer but first time posting. I’ve been pouring over this riddle for the last two years and wanted to see another persons validation or refusal of my thinking in WWWH.

    Halting means a sudden stop or temporary delay in movement. I originally thought the halt was a waterfall because the water is momentarily no longer flowing laterally towards its final destination, but is suspended in a free fall. But it’s hasn’t truly halted..it is still moving when falling.

    Then I took the glacier or ice example, but today I thought “if FF is as precise in this poem as he says then that doesn’t work either, because warm water does not turn to ice or freeze..warm water first must turn to cold water which then turns to ice. So then it is cold water halting, not warm.

    Then I played the elevation angle in my head but halting implies a return to movement. If you follow warm water upwards until it turns cold you can’t call it halting, because from that transition point in it will never turn warm again. It hasn’t halted..it has stopped. Two different words.

    All this is IMHO. Heading out to Wyoming tomorrow for a week of searching. Fingers crossed but with scenery like that you can’t lose even leaving empty handed.

    • Tiddy,

      I wouldn’t eliminate glacier or ice as a meaning just because of the word precise. I’m not saying it’s a clue but the word halt does mean freeze… how you use it is another subject. Freeze as in cold or ice or extended to glacier etc. and it does mean stop… dead stop. As well as you mentioned a change of course. not only in a water fall but could be a bend in the river or waterway. Don’t limit the usage of a word by lining it up with just a single line. there maybe more to that words meaning in part with a connection to another part of the poem.

      Just a thought. luck with your search.

    • Giddy,
      Where warm waters halt might also be where cold waters halt. In other words water halts at dams or water halts as it is poured in a glass.

      Warm water freezes at the same temperature as does cold water. And you may want to read up on the Triple Point temperature. Imo

      • Appreciate the comment but I’m not sure how that changes my premise that warm water can’t freeze. It has to transition to cold and then freeze…making it cold water halting

        • Here is an interesting fact.
          Put two identical containers in the freezer.
          One filled with steaming hot water, the other one with cold water.

          The former will freeze before the latter.

          • But at the point it freezes is it still warm. I lived in N Dakota and did the boiling water in freezing temperatures trick…but my point still remains that you have to change warm to cold before it halts do you not? Even if that change to freezing happens somewhat faster with one temperature as starting point than another?

      • uken2it, hello, I could be wrong but isn’t the triple point of water a lab created anomaly? I don’t know if it could be found in nature. Also, water halts when level, not saying that’s the answer just stating a true fact – Pete

        • Peter,
          I am fairly certain that you are correct in that the triple point is a lab creation. In my instance I used the degrees involved to locate highways. Didn’t get a certain outcome so that idea is shelved for now.

  69. Was anyone aware of his mention of the altitude in the interview? It seems the majority of people initially dismissed the association of ice formations in high altitude locations. Perhaps where warm waters halt refers to the slowing of the molecular activity of the warm water into a frozen state within a stream/creek. The molecular movement/ thermal fluctuations within a fluid is known as Brownian movement and Brown could very well be a mention of the clue where warm waters halt as an ice formation. Ice formations generally form on small cascading junctures in streams/ creeks. Perhaps placed below the home of brown is below a small cascading ridge in a waterway. It seem Canyon would be the initial indicator for the approximate location followed down to the secondary clue.

    • My comment just before your own explains why, in my opinion, ice is not a valid halt

      • I understood what you said. what I mean is why precise or precisely has to do with any clue being precise. the only reason for precisely that is needed to be known is following the clues

        That is what I meant by saying a clue should not be precise. Unless you think all clues are exact places…

        But in IMO at least one clue… Maybe more… Is not a place.

    • I like Brownian motion but I don’t think it’s related to ice. It is partially related to warm water kind of “halting” in the middle due to the cold deep and cold top layers exchanging places but my understanding is the warm water would be halting in the middle. Brownian motion is responsible for all types of particle movement though not even really water but can be applied. I could be wrong that’s my understanding but I haven’t double checked or anything so sorry if I am. IMO.

      • just curious… what’s halting…warm or waters? Could be either or both. Does ‘halt’ mean sudden & temporary? Can freezing or evaporating be considered sudden?

        • Warm waters, though you may have to use some me imagination for all of the infinite possibiities

        • OS,

          I put a lot of thought into that very question… the three states of water. Freeze or ice is a solid, evaporation changes to a gaseous state… which maybe can be considered halt, by its change but it never stops in movement.

          I’m sure some science guy will correct me but with the definition of halt the only “change is direction. Ice is even a leap depending on how you use it. My thought was not so much Ice itself but a time period. But fenn killed that with there are many warm waters halt and nearly all of them are North of SF. I didn’t like that… i didn’t like that at all. But sometimes reality is not always pleasant.

          It seems to me.. IMO.. all waters are warm. Are they not?

          • Seeker,
            Since your opinion is that all water is warm then there are numerous places where waters halt. Ponds, lakes, creeks if you get my drift. For what it’s worth

          • uken2it,

            Exactly. Whatever the degree of liquid water[s] is, it is still water[s]. And possibly the reason for the use of water as a plural.

            The line would work just as well with water, but that would indicate a single body of water. The simplest conclusion is all waters are warm and the poem is referring to all waters.

            Water changes it state / movement at 32 degrees to a solid and 212 to a gas or evaporation.
            All waters are warm. and IMO
            it is possible for the poem to read; Begin it where waters halt. and use the word warm as an indicator not a temperature.

            Show the poem to a child; Treasure hunt vs hide n go Seek.

            Big picture; all waters

            Comprehensive knowledge of geography; The study of the land surface and it’s inhabitants.

            Surprised how so many ignore the first clue; WWWH first clue?

            No one is ignoring WWWH, They just may not understand how to see it and it may not be the first clue at all. But very close. So what is the 1st clue?

            Searcher have gotten the first two clues correct, but may have not know it, as they went pass the other seven clues.

            Those searcher may not have understood the significance of where they were.

            olly- olly-oxen-free
            Your effort will be worth the cold. Hide n go Seek, treasure hunt TTOTC

            IMO, There is more than one Tucker chasing rabbits.

          • It’s interesting to me that most people consider “waters” a plural form of water.

            “Now, peas and stones are countable nouns, so they can take both singular and plural forms, but as water is an uncountable noun it doesn’t alter, so we have one glass of water or two glasses of water.”

            When “waters” is used in literature, it most often refers to a single body of water (The submarine patrols the waters off the coast of England) or turbulent water (the flood waters revenged the small town)….singular bodies of water.

            I don’t believe the poem is referring to more than a single water feature but misinterpreting this word could be leading searchers on a wild goose chase if they think more than one is involved.

            Couple this with the “halt” discussion and you have another reason why F suspects folks are “missing” the 1st clue…IMO.

          • Another way to read it for me is:

            Where does something warm change something halted into water?

            Warm air changes snow to water, as does the sun. Just a couple examples.

          • hi Colokid IOHO we think you are very right. most of the people on the blog are very smart but they tend to over work the poem. we did at first. it a very simple poem. and WWWH is the most important clue. the first four lines of the poem Mr F is telling us what he has done. the fifth line starts Beginning it….. and it is the first clue IOHO. good luck

          • Colokid,

            Missing is different than ignore. Missing the point of a subject… to totally ignoring a subject, line of thinking.

            I see your perspective of water and agree in the most common sense, but put it into a poem and now the writer as free range. That IMO is why fenn chose the avenue of a poem… to have the capability, not to be conventional.

            I also think, unlike writings in books and such, a poem doesn’t need to be exact in a single line or sentence when attempting to explain something. What i mean is, just like your examples… Patrolling waters and Glasses of water, there are indicators involved… waters off the coast of England, indicating a single body of water and not waters per se. Glasse[s] of water is not multiple waters or water plural, it the Glass that is plural.

            Warm may be the same indicator as, off the coast of and Glasses of.

            The question is what is it indicating? is the water[s] truly warm or telling the reader something else in an unconventional writing manor.

            This maybe why the poem seems too vague at first and grammar dysfunctional. Poems allow the writer to use words more freely to when and how to use them, when other types of writings would normally not.

            In any other type of literature this would be considered misleading, but not so much in the aspects of a poem.

          • Seannm,

            You said: “Then why not say “Begin it where warm water halts” maybe only to keep the rhyme between halt & walk?”

            Indeed, he could have done so and the sentence would appear to mean the same at face-value but not convey the meaning I think he intends. But there is a reason why he chose those particular words and I hinted at it when talking about how “waters” is normally used. I realize that I’m beating around the bush a bit but I have a theory that explains all of this. Also, halts doesn’t ryhme with walk so that draws additional attention to this choice of words in my mind.

            Just saying I don’t think “waters” is used in the plural sense here and coupling that with other definitions of “halt” opens up a new view of what the whole phrase means.

            In Fenn-speak missing and ignoring may not be that different. I you don’t pay enough attention to a particular turn of phase you might be ignoring it’s true meaning…same as missing. But I could be very wrong.

            I’m just saying that I think there are some interesting possible interpretations to WWWH that seem to be generally ignored although a few folks have mentioned them in the past.

          • colokid,

            Yep, from the readings of the past I think we all are missing more than we would like to admit. With that said, I’m not arguing your points to be wrong. We may even think along the same lines… if just perplexing how we [ the searchers ] can go off into so many different directions reading the same thing.

            What are we all missing that is not lining up to a correct way of understanding the poem.

            I’m at a point where i’m not trying to solve clues. More trying to how to find them. Sure WWWH may be a clue but how do I read it to be the correct understanding of that clue. More and more have gotten the first two clues correct. But may have not known… didn’t understand the significance of where the were.

            If anyone is actually going to find the trove, they need to do that first IMO. That is what I’m doing at the present understanding how to read the poem the way it was intended by the Author.

          • Seeker,
            You said: “I’m at a point where i’m not trying to solve clues. More trying to how to find them. ”

            I believe not identifying what is a clue was Forrests fail safe for making sure the riddle was sufficiently difficult. Without having anyone to test the clues he couldn’t be sure how hard it was really going to be. Take the Golden Owl treasure hunt for instance….the author thought it would be solved in 6-8 months and it’s going on 15 years. He gave out the actual clues.

            So identifying is a natural 1st step but since there is no certainty that we made the right choice this creates anxiety so I think this is why he tells us to read the poem over and over. This is just my opinion but, after repeated readings, some of the phases just have to be clues because they have no other context. For instance, if you read the 1st stanza it makes sense as a short story…i.e. going alone somewhere with treasure. But phrases like Put in below the home of Brown, and no paddle up your creek, and WWWH don’t seem to make much sense (at face value) and just about scream out that they must be clues. To me they just don’t have any other context and he hinted (perhaps) in one of the interviews that “this sounds like a clue”, and “that sounds like a few more clues”. Call it the if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck it must be a clue theory.

            You have to start somewhere. It’s going to be an iterative process no matter how much you analysis it. Identify, try to solve, rinse, repeat.

          • colokid,

            Yep and Nope. you brought up a good point to a couple if issues. One Fenn had no test subject to go by, and a natural process to look for clues.

            The difficulty of the poem is truly unknown, maybe even to the Author. Does he know the poem can be solved… he has answered that to be No, but it give the same opportunity to everyone.

            The natural instinct is to look for the clues, even though in your reading of the poem you only stated what maybe hints or indicators… are the actual clues or are the clues in understanding what those words mean and there usage to find the clue.

            I used this example before but maybe it’s worth repeating to get my point across, because sometime I don’t explain myself very well.

            What game is played in many schools and if you become a pro you can make a lot of money doing it? I’ll give you a hint, It starts with a T.

            To save time the answer is Golf.

            What were you trying to find? the name of the game correct.

            What are you trying to find in WWWH?

            There was a hint in the riddle as T… most hear that as letter and try to answer with games that start with that letter such as tennis. But the hint is not about the answer as much as an indicator. Tee is the starting point of the game of “golf”
            In reference to the poem Golf would be the actual clue.

            What are you looking for? in the poem… The answer to the staring point, but is that WWWH or is WWWH and indicator to the actual clue. Which may not mean what WWWH appears to be.

            Don’t get me wrong i’m not saying the poem is a riddle I’m saying the poem need to be understood / read correctly for one simple fact… More and more are getting the first two clues correct and don’t understand the significance of where they are.

            My natural instincts tell me they didn’t get the “clue”, they got the location. Just because you have a location, even the correct location[s] you may not have the “clue”

            The best way I can explain my thoughts is this… The entire poem is hints and we need to concluded the 9 actual clues from all those many many hints.

            Does this make the poem straight forwards?… did my riddle become straight forwards? answer is yes.

            From the mind of an Abstract thinker…

          • Seeker,
            In response to your opinion and in addition to my prior opinions I have tried to create what I think you describe.

            Q Where do most fishermen catch trout? Hint: it is not in warm water.
            Cold water? WRONG. A Where warm water isn’t.

          • @uken2it, “the definition of insanity is doing something over and over again and expecting different results.” — Einstein, Twain, Franklin, or Rita Mae Brown…

            Like fishing for 6 hours and catching nothing.

            Not sure who to attribute that gem to…

          • E.C.
            This is the post of yours that I completely understand. Not sure what that indicates about either one of us.

          • Seeker,

            I actually get your point but perhaps you’re over thinking?

            You said: “My natural instincts tell me they didn’t get the “clue”, they got the location. Just because you have a location, even the correct location[s] you may not have the “clue””. True but…..

            Let’s say they didn’t “get” the clue by which I mean they didn’t understand the clue as it was designed by Fenn (I think this is what you are saying). This means they had to guess the location. Then they also didn’t understand the second clue and guessed that as well. What are the odds? Of all the billions of places clue 1 and 2 could be in 4 different states multiple people correctly “guessed” the first two? I say this is very unlikely.

            I would say that it is much more likely that they recognized the clue as a clue (because they are recognizable) and because the clue is more or less “straight forward”, as F has told us, they made an educated guess but still a guess. Then because they didn’t correctly identify or guess the third clue they went off track. This is a simpler or more likely scenario that I believe fits the events as we know them. I’m sure thousands of people have gone looking with only a couple of clues in their pocket that they felt comfortable with (correct or not).

            Here’s a second point based on your example. There can be only so much information contained in the poem due to the limited number of words (assuming no hidden GPS coordinates). In your example quit a few words (packets of information) are expended to get to a single word answer. If that is how the poem was structured (clues not reasonably recognizable), and solving the clues results in, say, 9 smaller pieces of information (say individual words) how can that possibly pinpoint a 10″x10″ spot. Seem highly unlikely….IMO.

            You said: “The entire poem is hints and we need to concluded the 9 actual clues from all those many many hints.”

            So stating this another way; if the bulk of the words in the poem are hints (level 1) to other things that are “clues” (level 2), and then I assume the clue needs to be deciphered, then we quickly run out of information to move us toward the prize. There’s a very rapid point of diminishing returns with multiple levels….IMO.

          • @colokid… apologies for being pedantic… using set and discrete probability theory…

            Let Ω = ~150K square miles of eligible search area across 4 states, N of Santa Fe, above 5K ft, below 10,200 ft. (see Tinker Bell’s newspaper hat in The Great Fairy Rescue for creepy coincidental elevation range) … broken into chunks of 10″x10″ squares.
            Let x = 10″x10″x5″, or 1 chunk
            Let’s assume there is a blaze (b) quickly up. (I think differently about this now)

            The tightly focused spot we seek is b in proximity of x ∈ Ω.

            The search set for the blaze might then become b = {0}U[1,2, 3, … up to about 60 TRILLION possibilities, if my math is correct] within the search area, given what’s called a “Battleship strategy” for searching, named after the game “Battleship” where we have to just guess and keep track of what we’re ruling out. Using such a strategy, each of us individually has better odds of winning the PowerBall… 231,660 times.

            To your point, interpreting the clues and hints correctly (and validating them prior to booking a trip) is the optimal way. Brute force (or Battleship) searching without validation is, as f says, (paraphrased) nice pics of a vacation. Dal mentions 500K could be looking. F mentions only a very few send him pics or tell him where they are so that he can gauge how close they are. If some are whispering to him where they are and where they went next, it’s certainly feasible with a very high probability that they have gone “right on by the other 7 clues.”


          • Colokid… You mean something like they arrived at the spot but didn’t know the significance of where they were? But since they sent Forrest an email later of where they were or even contacted him from the spot he knew exactly where they were…:)

          • colokid,

            Yes, I meant they didn’t understand at least one of the first two clues. Best guess that would be the first clue… by way of the “Ignore” the first clue comment.

            This also would mean that those clues are relatively close in nature, either by location and / or meaning.

            If you like… lets say 30,000 searcher are actively looking and only 1%, a very small amount, have been to the correct two clues location. That would be 300 searchers. A few, on such a scale, or half would be 150. NM tourist count went up by double digits and that was supposedly accounted to the chase.

            But lets skip the math for a moment. Your analogy; more likely that they recognized the clue as a clue (because they are recognizable) and because the clue is more or less “straight forward”, as F has told us, they made an educated guess but still a guess. Then because they didn’t correctly identify or guess the third clue they went off track.

            Sure I can live with that and is more likely the scenario. Unless, the other possible explanation is the other seven clue are there as well. And with out nailing down the first clue properly, correctly, understand or at the right spot. [ LOL pick one, any one] The wrong understanding leads you away.

            Colokid, you’re a smart one, there is no doubting that. But that first clue is more than just, a place to start a pleasant little hike. The failure of those who have been there should raise a red flag as to why no one either understood or didn’t know.

            I find it hard to grasp that all those searcher [ no matter the count ] just seem to miss the 3rd clue. I only say this because of the over abundance from fenn about the first clue.

            To save a few from getting another migraine, I’ll ask you if you would like to continue this through e-mails. I would enjoy the more open chatting capability with you.

          • Spallies,
            I think the answer to your questions is yes and yes. The only way Forrest could conclude people have solved the 1st 2 clues is if they told him were they were. The question has always been whether they fully understood that they correctly solved those clues or guessed and didn’t realize the significance. But the discussion with Seeker was mostly about how recognizable the clues are in the poem. I’m saying if you can’t recognize them it’s highly unlikely you would guess at random and hit 2 dead on. But let’s say you are guessing at random. The odds increase dramatically that the more you guess you will eventually guess wrong and get off track. Hence the quote that you should stay home and play cards.

            Sure we could take it off line. How would I contact you?

          • ColoKid,

            Then why not say “Begin it where warm water halts” maybe only to keep the rhyme between halt & walk?


          • Seeker – had to chuckle at the olly-olly-oxen-free comment – haven’t heard that phrase in about 40 years.

          • Dang it, I didn’t mean to age myself. Umm, I think I heard from listening to my older siblings… much older siblings.

          • Seeker
            I wish I had something helpful to say. I don’t want to sit here and claim “hey everyone, I think I found it”. I dont like when other people claim it, and more importantly I need to be realistic about my chances. It’s hard for me to buy-in to the concept of “going with confidence” because visions of this dang chest and all the clues appear everywhere I look now. Every time I go look, I’m confident, unfortunately now, after so many failures, i just don’t get as excited about the lightbulb going off. That may be depressing to say, but I think there are others who feel the same way. Even now, I have a solve that I am confident in and want to go check out, but time and money are not on my side right now. My confidence has given way to patient anticipation.

          • Pl289, I wouldnt think of your adventures as failures. Instead look at them as stepping stones along your path to the final resting place. We all have one thing in common and that was taking that first step. We all started in different places and all were right because we took that first step. And JD we pray you stay fire free.

        • colokid,

          I don’t like putting my email out to the general WWW. But If goofy would be willing to be the middleman this one time { and no i have not asked him yet } maybe you could contact him and he can pass mine on to you.

          If that is good for you, I’ll e-mail goofy to see if he doesn’t mind being used like a pinball machine.

          • I have the same concern. I know goofy has posted his email a couple of times but I don’t have it. But that works for me if he’s OK with it.

          • Two option colokid…

            If your going to use the same email you log in on… Goofy can just pass that on to me… If different.
            He said send him the other and will email it to me.

            You choice

          • Seeker,
            Actually, to speed this up I created a new acct.

            contact me at:

            sceenname79 at gmail

            Talk soon.

  70. Does anyone else use kinesiological muscle testing/ calibrations of consciousness? It’s a great tool to arrive at the truthful answer to any quandary. The only difficulty in narrowing the location is the drawn out process of deduction through strong and weak muscle responses that bypass conceptual thinking and emotional involvement in the treasure. Making blind cards to place in envelopes with certain control test subjects allows for a consistently accurate calibration. It’s probably going to be the tool that narrows down the prospective locations to the exact resting spot. Start 9 miles north of Santa Fe with a quadrant system to deduce, deduce, deduce, deduce the scope until it arrives at the pacheco canyon rd area. One can then inquire as to whether or not it rests in a creek. This tool is used all over the world in intelligence agencies, law offices, research laboratories, and hospitals. Surprised I haven’t seen any mention of calibrations of consciousness by anyone else…

    • Ya almost had me till you mentioned Intelligence agencies, Lawyers and doctors.

      Reminds me of the joke, What is it, when you find a dozen feds. lawyers and doctors face down in the Hudson? A good start.

  71. The Treasure is wet… location of Pinyon trees… I realize this is outdated, but during the video clip earlier this year, where forest announced that the treasure was wet, he said where it is you could also smell Pine, Sage and Pinyon. Pinyon trees only grow in NM and CO per wikipedia, are not shown as able to grow in MT or WY, yet on the mpa hes says treasure could be in NM, CO, WY or MT. Has anyone verified if FF reatracted the quote about being able to smell or see Pinyon from the location? Did he make a critical error in his statement?

    • @GK, regarding if ‘pinyon’ was a slip-up or mistake, this has been discussed a lot in the past (before this season) and I’ve found a map that does show a little bit of growth in WY as well as the other two states but not MT for sure,,,,,bottom lines for veteran searchers seems to be if you like MT as your solve then it was just an error in his speaking, if you are convinced on NM it helps a whole bunch! Not sure if thee has been a formal ‘retraction’ he sort of can’t now, it’s a Catch-22 like so many other wonder ifs….IMO. I like NM and the picture of his survival training with ‘Pygmies’ could be a hint regarding Pygmy Pinyon trees, or not! IMO

      • He originally said “…smell pinyon nuts..”. He later retracted this by saying “…you can’t smell nuts…”. I think it was in the Sante Fe New Mexican article that published soon after the tourism video clip.

        I wouldn’t build a theory around pinyon trees being present.

    • He said that he could smell pine needles or pinyon nuts. Ponderosa pine grows in Wyoming and Montana. That leaves the door open for all four states.

  72. Hey Dal, Goofy, you’ll enjoy this…

    [Disclaimer – I know Dal had NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS]

    Some coward hiding behind the name “anonymous” and using Dal’s name sent me the following email:

    On Aug 5, 2015, at 5:51 AM, Anonymous wrote:

    “DAL thinks you’re an idiot
    And I do too… Your theory is silly at best, leave the hunting to us pros you moron!”

    My comments:

    1. Dal tells me right here on his blog what he thinks of my theories, good or bad. He’s not a coward.

    2. Beware of using Dal’s name, he carries an ice axe.

    2. My kids told me I’ve arrived at success now that I have “haters”

    3. Continue to threaten me or attach Dal’s name without his express permission and I’ll ask the FBI to open an investigation.
    They would be very interested given international attention of TTOTC.

    5. BTW: “Silly” is a poor word choice when threatening someone.

    • Calm down just a little, we don’t need any trouble certainly not the FBI involved in anything related to this chase. A peaceful flow of information is all we want on this blog (and if you know where the gold is just keep it that way ‘secret, some folks on the sidelines want to keep looking) harmony and tranquility (go in peace)

    • Well 42, if having “haters” is a measure of success I’m approaching the status of Elvis. 🙂

      Compared to our emails yours seems friendly. I think the idiots are hilarious, don’t let the morons bother you.

      • @Goofy: You’re alight in my book! Pretty darn cool! Not sure how close I’ve come to being nuked, thanks for being patient, I’ll try and just be a good listener/reader and not post daily…..thanks again, truly enjoy this new adventure albeit armchair for now. I will take the plunge soon, might not be a solve mission but more like recon.

      • I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that “haters” send that kind of garbage to others around here– but I am. I’m really sorry that you folks are subjected to it and I hope that Dal, Goofy, 42 and anyone else who gets that kind of garbage knows that most of us find that kind of harassment sickening and shameful. So sad….

    • I didn’t send you that note 42. You can tell it’s not me because there are no typos in it..
      and anonymouse is spelled correctly…

      Really though…I’m glad you know it’s not me..

      • Dal – I doubted you would use the word silly – it didn’t fit you.

        Butt, Injoy yer evenyng.

        Hey, da ya think CNBC wood do a show bout million doller morons? I mite jus cwalify

        • Dal reminds me of Ron Swanson, but I can still see him using the word “silly.” 🙂

    Tonight (Wednesday, August 5) on CNBC at 10pm EST watch Shiloh (Forrest’s grandson) and his dad and their Old Wood business on a new show called Blue Collar Millionaires…so that would be 7pm on the West Coast…
    I have no idea what time that would be in Singapore.

  74. Anthony, are you using it?

    I have read David Hawkins’ books on the subject but was never able to use the procedure successfully, so never tried it with this hunt. Perhaps my level of integrity is not high enough. My understanding is that it won’t work for this type of “selfish attainment”.

    I wish it did work for me though… I would be out finding missing children instead of trying to find a hidden chest. Reuniting a family would be much more rewarding than I’ll ever get from finding this chest.

    I have asked myself the same question as you and am surprised also.

    Good luck in your hunt


    • JDH-
      I agree. The thrill is in the chase, but after all of the time I’ve sunk into this, I am beginning to feel like a fool, an Alonso Quixono. What good would reciprocate if I were to find it tomorrow? Even if the gold was shared, what good would anyone else receive from it? Would it solve the world’s problems? Create peace on earth? Help the hungry or diseased? So contagious gold is. The chase has taught me one of the most valuable lessons, as true as the ballad of Captain Kidd.

      Not to be judgmental, but something to think about (the chase is really exciting and provides families a way to get out and explore and spend time together); if everyone here spent as much time helping solve problems within their community (per JDH’s comment) as hunting for the treasure, I guarantee the world would not only be a better place, but the satisfaction would be much more than it’s weight in gold. Time well spent. IMO

      Thanks JDH.


    • It has been used a few times to find a body and missing children. Interestingly we had more invested interest in finding the children and it still worked. I spent over 6 months surrendering a desired outcome before we were even given permission to test. We used the tests a couple of years ago and were so confident in the accuracy of our testing that we flew out to NM. We neglected to test whether it was under ice in April hahaha. I lost interest in the search as it seemed selfish until a very vivid vision popped up recently. It’s funny how when we let go of something it pops right in our lap.

  75. This thread has gone off topic. So, I will bring it back:
    I believe that some streams change from warm to cold at either the elevation of about a mile, and or the confluence with another stream.
    I personally have believed that this occurs on the Rio Grande somewhere between Bandalier National Monument and the Rio Pueblo river. This is one reason I had been obsessed with an area across from Whiterock and am now thinking or the Orilla Verde recreation area at the confluence with the Rio Pueblo.
    But starting with Bandalier, because it was an early solve for searchers lets look here:

    Before you get to the visitors center, park, and take a short easy walk, then go off trail.

    • Michael, I don’t think we are supposed to be guessing what wwwh is. It’s my opinion that all the answers to the our questions are in the poem. I do not think we are supposed to be looking at it as simple words”.I believe the info is in the poem.

        • That is very true. And that is where the research comes into play… understanding the usage of words. The question is, can you only rely on context of a line or sentence to that usage?

          This may be the catch 22, to the reading as intended by the writer. And may be the reason for the poem. Can we the readers truly take each word at face value or common, when attempting to solve A Poem?

          This is a double dilemma, as we are trying to locate and understand clues… at the same time understand a poem. That just double the difficulty as well.

          • Hi guys,
            Whatever happened to the triple decker solve seeker? I see two layers in your comment above. I have at least four layers and possibly five in my newest solve and I’m going a little bit nuts. In my opinion Forrest makes his own colloquialisms which makes them almost impossible to understand. We are left with only a few words in the poem and stories to attempt to find an answer. Poems are always read with different interpretation by different readers. We are all guessing with only nine clues to use. Difficult but not impossible. Like when the contestant on wheel of fortune has to do the last puzzle but there is only one f and the clue is thing and they are like “Freemason” and Pat Sajak just stands there with his mouth open. Anyone know if Forrest is active or linked to any Masonic lodges?

          • LOL, Blazeone,

            That two layers, is only for the first two clues…. By the time I’m done it will have more layers than a hook… err, I mean, a Wedding Cake.

        • And the poem has a lyrical quality of a ballad. I can hear it sung in a west Texan drawl, with a Spanish guitar playing softly. The fluidity of the lyrics are not wwwh. That is someplace outside, I can only guess where.And wonder what ff was listening to when he wrote the poem.

  76. FF said the wwwh is not associated with a dam. Does this rule out the reservoirs as well? I am thinking wwwh could be a reservoir where the water flow of a river is halted.

    • My opinion is that a dam and it’s impounded water are both physically and conceptually inseparable. I think the consensus is that impounded water is off the table. (mangling metaphors is one of my specialties)

  77. We were led to a location between Lichen and Echo Falls as it seemed to fit the context of the poem & interview answers. The cascading edges of the waterfalls freeze during the winter for a few months & restrict the water flow. Both locations are easily accessible by atv or horseback. The distance from the stream entrance at a grove to Echo falls is 505 feet on google earth. I though y’all might want to check it out…


  78. Consider this sample of Forrest Fenn quotes:
    “All of this cyberspace verbiage is conspicuous by the absence of talk about where warm waters halt.”
    “You need to start at the beginning. You need to figure out where warm waters halt.”
    “You have to know where warm waters halt.”
    “You’ll never find it that way. You need to start at the beginning. You need to figure out where warm waters halt.”
    “There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them. You over simplify the clues. There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts”.
    “If you don’t know where warm water halts (sic), you don’t have anything.”

    Ok, ok, Forrest I get it we have to figure out where warm waters halt first. You do not have to tell me ten times!

    In my book, Finding Forrest Fenn, I put a lot of thought into each of my warm waters but as my son pointed out, I was using hot water mixed with cold water to make it warm. This technique makes it difficult to isolate the thousands of sources, but if one was to keep this clue as straight forward as possible and forget hot and stick to warm there are only a few choices.

    A warm spring is straight forward and not many exist. Why a spring? Forrest hinted to us in the book: “In the spring when the weather was warm” (More on the weather later).

    “The grass sees, and the trees and rushing waters of the spring creek also see.”

    This last example shows how Forrest uses the plural waters as a spring creek and last fall he said “if you know where the treasure is better keep it quiet until spring.”

    Now the most important part that must be considered: “halt.” Why halt? It doesn’t rhyme with walk so that word has to be important. Most feel it is either water or warm that halts but is it possible that “halt” explains where the warm waters exist? One meaning is a train stop without a station, but the common interpretation is related to the military and Germany and it is used to tell someone who is “marching” to stop. From the Mysterious Writings blog Forrest remarked about the clues, “They’re contiguous, I knew where I wanted to hide the treasure chest so it was easy for me to put one foot down and then step on it to get to the next foot, thats what I did.” Step and foot down are very supportive of marching.

    Marching relates to the month of March when spring occurs and “Spring is the time to think.” Think about how the poem just explained that spring and in fact a “warm spring” to be specific is the source of where warm waters halt.

    So why does everyone ignore this when it is so obvious? Why does everyone continue to over complicate it even when Fenn says not to? There are some more examples that support “warm spring” that I will tie in later but the logical choice is “Warm Springs” Montana. Just far enough away from being blown to bits by the Yellowstone super volcano.

    Warm Springs is adjacent to Anaconda which I explained its significance in the last two blog posts. It has a state hospital which may explain why he said people thought he was crazy for doing this or it may explain why he said he hinted he was beat up mentally. More importantly this huge mound created by the warm water drains into a fishing pond right beside a railroad track or halt. If that is not convincing enough Warm Springs Creek intersects the Silver Bow River and that confluence maybe considered the traditional method of halting. Finally there are two tailings ponds that supported the Anaconda Smelter and I explained in my book why a tailings pond is a very good warm water source and all of these sources support the plural use of “waters.”

    In my book, I outlined Mr. Fenn’s hinting technique, he mentioned on Jenny Kile’s Mysterious Writings blog that “everyone had the same opportunity.” This comment has always stuck out in the minds of many searchers and nearby is a town called “Opportunity.” Beside Opportunity is the Fairmount Hot Springs Resort that has a spa called the Whispering Willows which is linked to the famous “it is what they whisper” quote. The spa also has a type of massage called “Indulgence” which Mr. Fenn has recently changed the name of the chest to. The Fairmont logo also is interesting and may explain all the hints of “F” and circles.

    Pictures and original article here: http://www.findingfenn.com/#!Where-Warm-Waters-Halt-Warm-Springs/cam/55c8b5430cf2bdcc99827170

    • Wolf,
      Just read your blog for the first time. I swear you have been reading my thoughts or my email. 🙂

      The lightning post is right on. Did you also know (you must) that if you were standing on the sun, all the planets (9, like when Forrest was a kid) would appear to be lined up in a row (see Richard Blake – he had 9 garages in a row)?

      And did you know that lawn guys are notoriously bad at calculating planetary distances? 🙂

          • Yeah, “technically” wasn’t a very good word choice. I should have said, “From the scientific perspective of measuring time based on how far you are planetarily (I made up that word) from the sun, time would not progress forward.”
            I guess that’s what I should have said, but for all intents and purposes, if time stands still, is it still time?

          • no, it’s not time at all…it’s called The Thrill Of The Chase…and your referee is none other than Forrest Fenn.

        • Mindy — we’re venturing into off-Fenn territory here, but in any case you lost me. Exclusive of general relativity, how does where one is standing affect the existence of the passage of time?

      • Thanks Mindy for the kind words. I plan on explaining the spelling error/aberration that you pointed out in the TFTW map in a few days, I think you will find that very interesting since you discovered it.

          • Should I fire my editor?
            I tell you what, I removed a couple because I had to give away a sample of my book and it wouldn’t look good to the non-searcher.

          • Wolf,
            I just started reading your book. Haven’t noticed typos yet but the photos don’t like my iPad. Look great on my Mac though. Thanks for a good read and a good cause man.

        • never noticed that one before.

          After giving some thought, I believe he is hinting the word “bold” in the poem. Which i think he wants us to pay attention to the word “treasures” as if it is written in bold letters.

          maybe that is the first clue?

    • Hi Wolf, regarding your quote above “If you don’t know where warm water halts (sic), you don’t have anything.”

      Is that verbatim? He said ‘…water halts…’ And not …’waters halt…’?

    • Wolf,

      You mentioned that halt and walk do not rhyme. Actually, they do rhyme. There are quite a lot of ways that words can rhyme without being what people recognize as perfect rhymes. Halt and walk are an oblique pair of rhyming words.

      Quite some time ago I posted a very long piece called Rhyme? or Reason? with an analysis of the rhyming of all the rhyming pairs in the poem, and how there is usually a dominant word in the rhyming pair for the writer, and how the pair interact, etc. I won’t go into it here. Also keep in mind that there is rhyming across stanzas in the poem, not just with the rhyming pairs within the stanza.

      There is certainly quite a lot of focus on the word halt, and logically and rightly so. But in terms of the use of that word, I believe that it’s important to consider its rhyming pair, the word walk.

      I believe that Forrest absolutely had to say walk, and there was not an appropriate substitute for that word. Halt is essentially the only word that he could use that would obliquely rhyme with walk, so it raises the question as to whether halt was ideal, or if it was simply impossible to use stop, cease (which is also a hint regarding halt, I believe) or other word. The power and meaning of halt needs to be considered in context the
      chosen rhyming word in the pair; walk.

      It certainly could be argued the other way around, if someone felt that the word halt initially ruled the pair. But my point is that in rhyming of poetry, there is almost always a certain degree of literary compromise. You do not have all available words at your disposal for selection as with prose or non-rhyming poetry, because of the need to rhyme it. So we may think of the poem as perfect, but there had to be some compromise, or at least a balancing act, due to the requirement to rhyme.

      Forrest chose to write a poem that had rhyme in the particular pattern that you see. He likes to rhyme, if we accept his other poems as support of it.

      In addition, as he could have chosen to write a non-rhyming poem and had complete flexibility with vocabulary, and because he “thought of everything” and spent at least 15 years on it, I believe that the rhyme itself, and the patterns, are critical to the understanding and the solution of the poem.


      • Hey Halo where were you when I tried pushing this one past my English teacher:

        “Hickory dicory dock
        The mouse ran up the vault”

        Life in school would have been so much easier with you as my teacher!

  79. HI all , Just wanted to chime in to a few folks who I have spoke to in the past.
    I just got back from filming my 3rd search . My friend and colleague Jake , myself and my oldest son went to a place near Heartsel Colorado .(Hope I spelt that right)
    I walked the poem from a place to Spinney Mountain (No place for the meek ) , in this solve. To say the least while I was looking at google earth I noticed a farm that had a few old buildings there…
    We arrived at this location around noon , and thought this walk was only
    1.2 miles at the most. The area is easy to walk and it is around 7000 – 8000 ft. in elevation. With no trees and rolling hills. Well no we didn’t find the hinding spot, but we did find some pretty cool stuff , which we left there.A old sattle , nails , tools , roofing material , walls , some of the original floors if any one wants to look for cold cash… and many other things…
    On the way back a young Bison bull was standing around 150 -200 yards out and was staring at us. So , I told the guys not to stop or turn your back , but to walk at a angle away from the animal so we could see him and him us. Any way Jake decides to stop. And that Bull Didn’t like that too much at all .I will leave you to decide what took place form here , I plan also to publish our stories later in a book and hope to on film also…

    I have looking for the chest for 3 years. Imagination has always drove me to look at other solves. I think I have found a total of 9 different solves. Although to vary between circumstances and to thread a track to the chest has been on various roads. I do like Yellow Stone solves a lot and I have found some really cool stuff that related to the poem in area that looked like where he would have put it for sure. But it’s not there…. I won’t give too much of the story away yet, do to how I got the Data and Im not sure if the person who sent me to the area would like it if I said anything or not. So Ill keep it to my self and just say Take a look at the fire hole river and other areas in a solve for Yellow Stone. We are going back the to prospect a area that Terry scant and marvel gaze meet … at least what I can make out of the 2 , and go look again in Yellow Stone. When we go Il post the solve to Dal , and to you all. I have posted a lot of them before , but this one most will like.

    To me every time we go into the woods looking for the chest we find a different treasure and we are as interested in finding other things along with Mr. F’s chest.
    This brings a new chase every time we go out and have a great time .

    So use your I it can be greater then K .
    And maybe Y is it and that I must go.
    Or maybe we all look too deep, and maybe the flutter by, is not a butter fly after all. Hope brings people to places they would have never thought to look…
    Cool Chase again Mr.F Sir … Thanks … May the Father bless you and life fill yours… And maybe one day when you are lighting candles on bolth ends up there, light one for me … =) I know Im truly luck to be here I was in a very bad accident that left me in bed for almost 2 years,I was not sure if I could ever be the same again . My family took care of me and I had to remember how when I was better.

    But, Hope ….. ! Took every bad dream away , and started to change me in side from a very harsh hearted man that I was becoming for the accident and the trials of life. Now my Family and Team , we live out West where the Heavens meet the Earth and we found our own little piece of heaven here in Colorado.

  80. http://wherewarmwatershalt.com

    I will be so bummed out if the WWWH count down fizzles out like stale grapette soda!

    Waiting, waiting…..for???

    IMO forrest is that website’s designer, and I believe the last ‘wooden shed in a fen’ design had subtle location confirmations. But who knows. There are so many sub-games being played out – it could be ff throwing curve balls.

    • Hey 42,
      I’m not, or do I even have a thought of who is behind the web page. But I laughed when you said you would be bummed out if the WWWH count down fizzles out like stale grapette soda!.

      I think so many will attempt to log in.. the site will not just fizzle out, but completely explode. I can imagine it holding all those hits all within seconds of each other. Either way it will be fun to watch and see what happens. just let me know what actually happens, i’ll be doing other things. Thanks.

    • Eveing, 42, etc al;
      Whomever is behind the clock is a genius. We are all ( both yays and nays) anticipating something, if not nothing. At any rate, can we all agree, it’s genius?

      Now, about the poem, which in and of itself is a labrynth of uniquities. Among the first to me; I immediately saw
      www jump off the page at me…
      …right after that second line started with And and just sounded funny…

  81. 42-
    Listening to you say that you believe Forrest is behind the WWWH website is like hearing from an old friend that he believes Ronald Reagan shot John Lennon. I just don’t know what to say.

    • Dal – I think it’s quite possible he has a great time behind the scenes throwing us curve balls in a hound suit and possible he signs in here under pseudo names to play the game. Come on Dal, you must have considered the possibility.

      I doubt the Master of Marketing will ever retire. The more he or a cohort pads the Internet with sub text to compliment TOTC – the longer and larger his legend lives.

      • I’ll punctuate my thoughts with a supporting fact that you & Forrest confirmed last year. He wants his biography titled “The Pied Piper From Santa Fe”

      • 42-
        Forrest said, on this very blog, that he has only been here as Forrest Fenn and Forrest Fire. Goofy and I, as administrators on this blog have access to all the IP’s here. We can see who changes their name and shows up on the blog as someone else. Heck there was a guy the other day that came on under a different name and started an argument with himself. I guess he was tired of everyone ignoring his comments. There is more than one commenter on this blog who uses more than one name…and lots of folks over time have abandoned one name and showed up a week later as someone else.
        Goofy and I can confirm that Forrest has never commented here as anyone other than Forrest Fenn or Forrest Fire.
        What’s more, he rarely even comes to this blog at all. He doesn’t visit the blogs regularly. Just reading his email is a monumental task. Imagine the volume and character of the messages he must get. He does come here to check out the stories folks send him and he forwards to us for posting…most recently that includes the stories by Josie and Leza. Those two stories were sent to Forrest and not to me. Forrest sent them along to me and asked if I wanted to post them.

        Forrest’s life is not about this treasure hunt. it’s certainly a part of his life, but not all of it. He is careful not to let it consume him…which, as you can well imagine, easily could.

  82. The count down clock has no background picture and the sound is just a rumble.
    The geolocation coordinates are just north of Seattle, WA???

    • At these coordinates, 47.6448, -122.2985, the overpass has the large words, “I’m a fool 4U.” The edge of the overpass says, “LABRAT.” ?????

  83. Thanks Specialklr.,. I found it under Inspect Element but I had to go into Internet Explorer…

  84. I have just become interested in fenns treasure and have been analyzing the poem. At first I thought the poem seemed pretty straight forward but the more I analyze the more I find different interpretations and meanings. As far as solvingWWWH I have had few ideas but I’m still trying to come up with a real solid answer for that. I have had a few other ideas that I would like some feedback on. For HOB I thought brown was capitalized to signify that it was a proper noun but could mean another word for brown. Such as frontier painter thomas moran as moran is Spanish word for brown or the town of cimarron/ cimarron river. As far as for the blaze I am pretty convinced it is not referencing fire as I think the use of wise may be referencing smart enough to figure this out. It could refer to marking on a horse face or a trail marker but I also could mean a brilliant display such as describing a beautiful view also ties in with marvel gaze. I don’t know if these have been brought up before or if I am overthinking some answers but feedback would be appreciated.

    • Wesley,

      You’re finding many interpretations to the poem, as we all have. I was wondering what interpretations you read? Are they all just directional or something else. Then ask yourself why so many and in so many ways. IMO there is no easy one time answers, and the Author alludes to this by repeating to read the poem over and over and over again. But seeing the poem differently with fresh eyes each time may help. Just a thought.

      Your “Brilliant display” comment is a good example of that. Most would like to believe the Blaze is the very end, and it may just be. But keep an open mind is all I’m saying… The Blaze is a bit confusing for me for many reasons. 1. it sits in the middle of the poem. 2. that stanza is both past tense and present tense. 3. if clues are in consecutive order and the blaze is the end… kinda makes the last two stanza obsolete. Personally I can’t see an Author spending 15 years to perfect a poem and have 8 lines of it mean notta. just another thought.

      Those three reason or thoughts on just the blaze raises questions and I see a lot of the same question through out the poem. Why this word or that word in this place or that place. Why past tense and present tense used in the same sentences. All I’m suggesting is try not to get fixated on a single method, idea, theory etc. and ask yourself a lot of questions… not so much of what a clue may be, but why the poem reads the way it does. The Author has stated; the words in the poem are deliberate and it even though not every word will help lead to the chest, it would be unwise to discount them.

      You probably read most of what I just said… if not read through the blog, you’ll find helpful information on it.

    • Wesley,

      I believe the “blaze” does reference fire. There is no fire where the blaze is on the map (or evidence thereof), but if you are wise you will find it on the map.

      And – that is not where the chest is.

      IMO, of course.

      Scott W

  85. @Wes, yes pretty much already brought up! Welcome to the FF club! I’m sticking with WWWH being ‘warm’ is what is doing the halting not the water, for now….Brown could be a Spanish or other than English word, blaze is something that will be around for a long, long time so not on a tree or recent forest fire or horse (unless location of a picture of a horse). IMO, IMO. Mystery countdown person, can’t wait to hear your solve! I’m guessing mystery guy is one of the searchers who has been within 200 – 500 feet…..

  86. WWWH.com is counting down to roughly 10 hours out here on the East Coast. I will be one of the first ones to see it end, and will be at work to monitor it. As I believe the countdown is acclimated to the timezone you live in, I’ll get a 3 hour jump start on Pacific timezone (if it works out that way). Soooo, if ANYTHING of value pops up when that counter hits ZERO, I will immediately post here. There is a chance, that the owner of the site could know where it is and has been giving the world a chance to figure it out(for some unknown reason), and will then place something valuable there to the Chase. But then again, it could be nothing but a playful distraction.

    Whatever opens up there, I’ll be watching the instant the timer ends, and will post it..so you guys in pacific time, might want to be up at 1:15 am in the morning for a lil bit, just in case.

  87. @Iron Will, sort of reminds me of New Years and Y2K! You are correct about the time zone acclamation…..why would a searcher spend so much time creating that site and risk giving up the spot, such a mystery….will it be over or yet another bust…….feels like the person is on leave or a yearly break from overseas…..IMO and off topic!

    • Well Cholly, IF were were to entertain ourselves with the premise that it’s someone who knows, then my answer would be, he could be some rich person or group. They wouldn’t really care about a million bucks, but maybe they enjoy dangling a piece of meat in front of all us rabid wolves to see who can get to it first. It’s obviously someone smart, with ties to Russian art. So many possibilities that it could be. That’s why I alluded it could just be a distraction.

      Spallies, cool then you’ll see it when I see it. when the countdown is done, just make sure you refresh the screen incase a refresh is needed to show any new content. This feels like a fun countdown to have to watch on a boring midnight shift at work so tonight will be fun 😀

        • At the end of the countdown that Exorcist scary face is going to pop up with screaming and scare the crap out of anyone watching 😀

          • So did forrest ever comment on this? You would think if it was not from his camp that he would of said NO….sorry if this is already been talked about? I am like forrest, I don’t read the blog much these days. I am so very busy. Rock Hunting is high on my list of things to do. At least I know where the Rock are. Wish I could find that chest.
            With all you very smart people out there, you really would think YOU would find it!

            Lou Lee, happy hunting, may you find what it is you are looking for!

          • From what I know factually, he has been quoted as saying it’s not his site to at least two separate searchers, and that he has nothing to do with it. One of those two sources is “iron-clad” as well. 😉

    • The interesting part is that it doesn’t matter what time zone you are in, if you look at the coordinates based on the Kapreka number (left hand corner) it will give you the north coordinate of 45.2025. 15+15+15 = 45 and 45X45=2025, 20+25 =45. Looking on google earth. If you look at highway 89, at this coordinate, (can’t meander much west east due to canyon incision), on the river’s right bank, left side of the road going downstream is the outline of a truck made with property line fencing and parking spots. Looks like Forrest’s new car….

      Think this is a coincidence?

      • Well My thoughts are that the Kaprekar in the lower right of the page, stands for the Kaprekar Constant. 6174. This could be the elevation of where the chest lies, if (and its a BIG IF), the owner of this site knows anything of value.

    • Thanks 23
      I Love a mystery! Adventure…….Forrest is sitting near the Banco…Laughing at all of us…….Coronado’s Children….Or Forrests Children….LOL

  88. I believe wwwh is the world wide web. That’s the only way my solution works. It is my opinion. RC.

    • While it looks like a great interpretation, Forrest has explicitly said “where warm waters halt” is NOT www(dot).

        • Don’t have the link handy, but you can find it from this info:

          caddisfliesandshinsplints on March 8, 2013 at 3:20 pm said: “has anyone ever thought of- Where Warm Waters halt….. http://www.”

          Reply from Doc on March 8, 2013 at 3:57 pm:
          “Here are Forrest’s own words on that, in reply to the question from me: “…sometimes you can overcook a solution by thinking too much. I am a simple man and www never entered my mind.”

          • Thanks zaphod and Sam Sam –

            Zaphod – if you chose to believe hearsay that is written by a poster on here – you can certainly do that.

            I’m not saying a poster would intentionally mislead us……. or would they. I mean – what are you using right now – a computer of some sort…. right.

            I know FF is very capable on the computer – and used it . He uses it now and he most likely used it when inventing the poem and the clues.

            I agree the world wide web is not where warms waters halt = but the web certainly can be, and should be used in finding history, facts, clues and many things regarding the chase the poem. I think many parts of the poem are done in layers and WWW is one of them.

            Just my opinion……….

          • Hi Into,

            > if you chose to believe hearsay that is
            > written by a poster on here – you can
            > certainly do that.

            i’m fine with taking Doc at his word, to the point that I wouldn’t want to pester FF by asking him the question directly. From everything that Forrest *has* written, www (dot) doesn’t seem at all like a clue approach he would use.

            > I agree the world wide web is not where
            > warms waters halt =

            Well, then we’re in agreement. 😉

            > … but the web certainly can be, and
            > should be used in finding history, facts,
            > clues and many things regarding the
            > chase the poem.

            No argument from me. If one doesn’t have a “comprehensive knowledge of geography” I would think the Web would be an effective research source. Likewise, if you don’t want to go out and buy the hundreds of topo maps that would be necessary to cover the portions of NM, CO, WY and MT that are in play, the internet is a good alternative.

  89. Oh heck, can we have a countdown party in our homes? Then when nothing happens we can all throw darts at the website. Hummm makes me wonder if illwillpress has anything appropriate for that occassion? 🙂

  90. The WWWH website counter is set according to your computers time zone setting. If you change your time zone in your “Date and Time” settings the clocks countdown will adjust accordingly. I’m on Pacific Time with 4 hours 46 min to go if I change my time to the next forward hour time zone “Alaska” the countdown changes to 5 hours and 46 minutes to go. etc.. etc.. every timezone hour backwards reduces the countdown time by one hour. “Eastern” time zone gives me 1 hour and 46 minutes. “Greenland” and anything before gives me 000 00 00 00

      • The last time zone is the “International Date line” with a countdown of

        000 Days
        : 09 Hours
        : 25 Minutes
        : 43 Seconds

        This is when all time zones will be zeroed out.

        • True, but I believe the baseline time zone, when the web site wakes up, may be east coast time. 🙂

    • At least we know WHEN wherewarmwatershalt . com halts. August 15, 2015 @ 4:15 am in every time zone.

      : 00
      : 02
      : 38

    • Well, if they found it, you would think they would get a real developer to build the site.

      If you look at the code, they set the timer to end at Aug 15, 2015 at 04:15:00 YOUR COMPUTER’S time. A very strange way to set a timer, but must have some significance to them. They put up their first page about a year ago and didn’t put anything else up until last month. Maybe they found the treasure? Maybe it’s a launch of some new blog. There’s some indication that it may be subscriber based? The site at least has some of that setup. Could just be part of their WP theme. The user name used so far for all of 3 of the posts is “Finder’s Keeper” so definitely related to the treasure hunt.

      I guess we’ll all find out soon!

    • mine too….all 00’s 🙁 well next time for me to check is 7:15 eastern which is pacific 4:15. After all the chest is hidden in pacific time zone.

      • I believe Mountain Time encompasses most of the Rockies. Which would be 6:15 Eastern.

        I’m kinda curious about the cookies this site sets and their purpose. I detect 3 from this web site.

          • 4:15 PST

            New Page Begins…

            Beyond the night that covers me,
            I endure for those misguided.
            All that is needed has been provided.

    • Let me know when you figure it out. Bed time for me.

      Zyhxlmwzi vg zw kizvhvmh – mfnvifn ivevozmwz

      Beyond the night that covers me,
      I endure for those misguided.
      All that is needed has been provided.

      “Svn qnzcr chudqfdc hm z vnnc, zmc H —
      H snnj sgd nmd kdrr sqzudkdc ax,
      zmc sgzs gzr lzcd zkk sgd cheedqdmbd.

      • Second bit is two roads diverged in a wood…etc. Just move the letters one to the right.

        The first line is different. Still working on it

      • The full deciphered message on the right side is below:

        two roads diverged in a wood, and i —
        i took the one less traveled by,
        and that has made all the difference.

        • Dang you! I just deciphered it after 10 min of looking at it and you guys are already ahead of me 🙁

  91. Look at the perceived importance of owls in Native American lore. The harbinger of death with it’s hoot or the wise & intuitive spirit animal/ totem associated with Native American shamanic ceremonies may influence this poem to some degree it seems. Do y’all see any interesting coincidences? Put in below the home of Brown… could this be FF leaving his mode of transportation to continue with the chest in hand? We wouldn’t expect him to carry the chest more than say 50-100 feet into a grassy grove or wooded area of some sort.

    Anyone interested in the location of the pile of red flagstone we found arranged in a circle like a campfire with tall pieces inside sticking up feel free to add me on facebook and I’ll send ya the google earth coordinates.

  92. So, has anyone figured out the line in the upper left? And what about the circle in the middle as the sun rises?

    • Nope and Nope from here. Of course I just got off midnight shift so my mind isn’t that sharp right now 😀

      • The cipher in the upper left hand side is a backwards alphabet which translates in latin

        “abscondar et ad praesens – numerum revelanda”

        Google translate says this: “be hid; and for the present – to the number of to be revealed”

        (As I went to post this i see Inthechaseto also posted something.)

        • If you translate each section individually, it gives: and wait for the moment – number revealed….at some point in the motion of the earth is there a number visible somewhere?

        • I had a buddy from college who was a classics major and his trnaslation is this: “I will be hidden and at hand – revealing the whole”

          Not sure it’s all that helpful – but I’m sharing it with all.

          • inthechaseto – here’s what his reply was:

            “Sure thing; I’ll do the best bit of Latin exegesis that I can!

            abscondar: According to Cassell’s New Compact Latin Dictionary (which was the initial reference I turned to, throughout), I knew this came from the verb abscondo, abscondere…meaning “to conceal” or “to lose sight of”. But what conjugation is it?! I found http://www.verbix.com/languages/latin.shtml where I could look up the complete conjugation of any Latin verb. I discovered (rather than remembered…45 years after my last Latin class…;) that abscondar is passive voice, first person singular, future tense (or present subjunctive; the difference would be choosing between “shall be…” and “should be…”–I think! :). Anyway, the context you gave me suggested that it would more likely carry the meaning of “concealed” or “hidden”–thus: “I will be hidden”.

            et: “and”–I tried not to read too much into this word. 😉

            ad praesens: “praesens” means “present” or “at hand” (it’s actually a participle of “praesum”, whose basic meaning is “to be (i.e. stand) before” someone or something; hence praesens would be “standing before”, i.e. being “present” or “at hand”). Though praesens alone can mean “at hand”, the “ad” is probably there just for emphasis, as it’s in contrast to it being “hidden”.

            numerum: This is the accusative singular of “numerus”, meaning “a number of” something, or the “total” or “mass” of something, or any one of another nuances of meaning–depending on context. Since the context seemed to be this hidden treasure, it seemed most reasonable that numerum referred to the “whole” treasure.

            revelanda: This comes from the verb revelo, revelare…meaning “to unveil” or “lay bare”. Again, I turned to verbix.com and revelanda appears to be the accusative plural gerund. I could be wrong, but I interpret the plural form of the word to refer to the two contrasting aspects: “hidden” and “at hand”. And for the context, I chose the word “revealing”. However, now that you’ve made me think through this again, perhaps it’s more properly thought of this way: the word numerum, though singular, might take a plural verb form (since a “total” implies that there are numerous individual items), and the phrase “numerum revelanda” should then be translated something more like “the total revealing.”

            So there you have it. Latin was never my forte. “How I wish Knox were my fort.” ~Groucho”

    • Mindy –

      Over at Mikes – they figured this out a week ago –

      It’s a simple #1 Ceasar Cifer. The line on the upper left is……..

      The road not taken by Robert Frost


      • The ciphered quote on the right is from the Robert Frost poem The Road Not Taken but are you saying the line on the upper left deciphers to the poem’s title? I don’t see that or are you just assuming it deciphers to whatever the road was that he wrote about…

      • Zyhxlmwzi vg zw kizvhvmh – mfnvifn ivevozmwz = 37 letters

        The road not taken by Robert Frost = 28 letters

        doesn’t seem to compute

          • Your welcome Sam –

            The encrypted words on the right are of course the poem by Robert Frost…..
            The Road not Taken
            by Robert Frost

            Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
            And sorry I could not travel both
            And be one traveler, long I stood
            And looked down one as far as I could
            To where it bent in the undergrowth;

            Then took the other, as just as fair,
            And having perhaps the better claim,
            Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
            Though as for that the passing there
            Had worn them really about the same,

            And both that morning equally lay
            In leaves no step had trodden black.
            Oh, I kept the first for another day!
            Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
            I doubted if I should ever come back.

            I shall be telling this with a sigh
            Somewhere ages and ages hence:
            Two roads diverged in a wood, and I —
            I took the one less traveled by,
            And that has made all the difference.

          • Sam –

            The reason it is not working for you might be that you are using the Atabash cipher –
            if you look to the right – you will see the “Caesar” cipher. Then type in the number – 1…………

  93. If you watch the center of the screen, a circle forms…look closely at it and it looks like the E Pluribus Unum pyramid with the all seeing eye over it from the back of a dollar bill.

  94. OK, I just figured out a smartphone isn’t worth a hoot for looking at that site. I pulled it up on my puter and saw so much more. Anyways, I’m fairly new to the whole chase, but have spent a lot of time out in the Rockies. I’d just like to say hello to everyone and good luck.

      • That story of sword and it’s mystery, went viral on the net a few days ago.

        The translation is highly sought after.

        After seeing the “Latin” on the webpage WWWH, thought I should reconsider putting it out there.

        Is there any correlation? Doubt it.

        Someone thou is educated in Latin. Pretty slick to:)

      • Hay:)

        The sword mystery went viral on the net a few days ago.

        A highly sought after translation.

        Thought it was interesting the “Latin” on the WWWH page.

        Any correlation? Doubt it.

        Thou someone is educated in Latin, and pretty slick:)

  95. The company behind this website is CMJ Media and it is most likely for advertising or marketing purposes. I found this out by coming across an orphaned attachment called“iforgetwishes”. iforgetwishes is the only attachment, post or page with a unique author, “Nah-E-Thlai,” every other page is authored by “Finder’s Keeper.”

    After finding Nah-E-Thlai, I went to the author’s profile page, which didn’t exist but did reveal a unique URL ending with /author/eric/. Once I confirmed that an email address was tied to that author name, I sent an email to the address. Almost immediately, I received a reply from an email account registered to CMJ Media:

    I will be out of the office Aug 12 to Aug 14 and will have limited availability. I will occasionally check email and voice mail {removed}.

    Thank you,
    Eric {removed}

    I found two more registered email addresses on WhereWarmWatersHalt.com and reached out to see how to proceed. I also emailed the folks over at CMJ Media. I’m a full-time writer and occasional designer myself, so I know how much work goes into these things and I really didn’t want to needlessly spoil any major surprises… however, I feel like part of the allure of sites like these is figuring them out. They are designed to create a sense of mystery that only makes sense if the point is to solve them. To that end, I’m sorry if I’ve ruined any plans or spoiled some massive product launch.

    Looking at the website for Pacific Horizon Ventures, you can see that Eric Edwards, the owner of CMJ Media, is involved and “has been researching the Cocos Island treasure since 1986, including a search for the treasure in the South Pacific. He’s also organized and led numerous outdoor ‘adventure’ excursions” and “has participated in other searches for historic sites and artifacts.”

    I am now fairly certain that this site will end up being some kind of promotion for Pacific Horizon Ventures, whose mission statement includes:

    The company provides research, exploration and recovery services for historic lost assets with an intent to develop economic, carbon neutral, sustainable business ventures. The company’s initial project (Project 1: Cocos Island Treasure) and efforts will focus on the recovery of the Coco’s Island treasure (which is no longer on Cocos Island). This treasure is estimated (by those that secreted it to its present location) to be 100+ tons of gold, silver, jewels and historic artifacts). Upon the successful recovery and distribution of the treasure’s assets, the company will then move forward with branding and licensing of the story. This will include a documentary (and/or a series), book/published material, exhibitions, various products, movie rights and related items.

    And, another interesting note on the Pacific Horizon Ventures introductory blog:

    Additionally, the company intends to pursue other projects of a similar (and classified) nature after the successful recovery of the treasure/assets (Project 1).

  96. inthechaseto,

    There are two separate encrypted messages on the page. Both use two different encryption methods.

    On The Left Side Of The Screen (hard to see unless selected):
    “Zyhxlmwzi vg zw kizvhvmh – mfnvifn ivevozmwz”…

    Decrypts into Latin using the “Atbash” method as…
    — Abscondar et ad praesens – numerum revelanda

    Google translates the Latin into English as…
    — Hidden and revealed to the present number (hyphen removed)
    — Be hid; and for the moment, – the number of the to be revealed ( hyphen left in)
    — Abscondar et ad praesens = And wait for the moment
    — numerum revelanda = number revealed

    On The Right Side Of The Screen:
    – Svn qnzcr chudqfdc hm z vnnc, zmc H —
    – H snnj sgd nmd kdrr sqzudkdc ax,
    – zmc sgzs gzr lzcd zkk sgd cheedqdmbd

    Decrypts into English using the “Caesar” method as…
    – Two roads diverged in a wood, and I —
    – I took the one less traveled by,
    – and that has made all the difference


    • Thank you Sam –

      For someone who didn’t know ciphers – I think you got it.

      I think the people (not Forrest) who are putting this together are – quite smart and fun – but they don’t have the treasure do they – ——-

      • Some ‘feel’ they have the treasure; or are wise in making an effort to get closer to it. Others….haven’t a clue.

        Yet ~

        • Hi SlF , I would have to agree with you hear.

          I must say , I never thought someone else would try to use ancient code methods that a few of us have looked at already.

          I found no code that made serve but 1 and it is not really a code but a method on how to read the poem .

          I’m going back to Yellow stone this week for the chest.
          Yes I think I found the trail, but I also thought I found it in NM . And I was incorrect. Then I had a solve again in NM . But wait a second , the other solves I have was a gain by imanigation and what I thought F was trying to get across. I was wrong dead wrong . See it’s not what I think or can come up with that makes the solve the real one. It’s why F did it is why he hid it. Not what I can come up with . So I use the book as a out line and the poem as the construction, or building if you will.
          F set the guide lines , it’s up to us to decipher what he means .

          It is after of his circumstances, and not mine. So I changed my methods for the solves and Lo and behold a butter fly became the flutter bye….

          Cool concept , but I did find a home of brown in Yellow stone that telates to the first stanza. And I can located 9 clues with in reading the poem to this location . I will post this solve if I do not find it there. And defiant ally if I do lol.

          I hope all the best luck and please wish us well on this solve. My gut has never felt so awkward about this very particular solve. I lost my pop to a rare form of cancer and I took care of him until his death, he told me to keep my chin up and that some healing was coming my way in life and his death was the start of it. The last words he spoke to me along with your a good boy and I love you very much.

          So this Chase due to Mr.F having it and surviving gave me a slight glint of what hope holds for those who have gone through this type of twist life throws at us sometimes.

          So , I have found some treasures already in this chas , with a little wisdom rolled into one and I cannot thank F more . But , I must say he has been a little light in a big dark world .

          Thanks Forrest Fenn and the Fenn team for making this a small reality for people .

        • Hi Mr. D,

          Yours is an inspiring story and I thank you for sharing it. Your Dad must have been a wonderful person! He will forever be proud, and it’s clear that he wanted you to carry this with an understanding that love is an eternal gift living within the heart; and one that can be opened anytime; rain or shine.

          Your plans seem exciting! Other than my son, I’ve no codes, books nor otherwise intelligent methods to assist in locating the chest; it’s a journey that’s simply become an enjoyable way to keep my brain active and… awake.

          I sure hope that your upcoming quest will be a safe and fulfilling experience. I often think that FF has brought his flashlight a long to share a wondrous light, and has also prepared an extra sandwich to help keep our imaginations and spirits nourished. (Could sure use one of those bananas every now and then, tho!)

          You’ll find the treasure. It’s possibly closer than you think!


          • Hi SLF ,

            That comment was well need . I just returned from Yellow Stone , and what a time we had. No we did not locate the area of Mr.F’s treasure .

            But again we found our own . We were driving through Madison Junction when my son realized he left his phone by
            F’s bathing spot and or closer to Ojo . So if any one finds a Atel phone in that field please let me know LOL….!!

            Any way he lost his phone so we pulled off the road on a pull off , and started digging through the mound of stuff we brought , when a Lady approached us upset and asked us for help. See her and her daughter were stranded there and she barely spoke any english , she was Chinese , stuck and scared . She had what appeared to be a 9 year old daughter in the car with no cell access. Funny my oldest Son came on this father and son walk about with me looking for F. He is one heck of a mechanic and can fix almost anything. So , he goes to her Jeep and noticed she had a newer and her ignition was locked up . With in a matter of 5 seconds her car was fixed. And a swoosh went over her and a smile appeared . We were exactly where we needed to be that day .

            Every trip has been a experience . My trail was to Harlaquin Lake . If I spelt that right… =)

            Any way that is a name of a cancer healing agent , so I figured maybe he was pointing me to that lake . I will be sending Dal the details this week of the full solve. This is interesting and well thought . It made sense and as you guy’s will see , pretty direct when looked at through my eye’s. (Conjecture)

            My mind can make as may pop top’s as F had as a Kid. But , now I have all the pop top’s ever made , I’m moving on to strings..!

            I did find a couple of cool things out there. I found at Lake Blaa Blaa Blaa a Grape Soda can the requires a old spaded can opener to open it on both sides to let out the pressure so you can drink it. It was in side a old camp fire I uncovered. Now that was cool , was this F’s when he was a boy? My mind was on fire , moving so fast through the data of TTOTC , the poem , and well I’ll keep this one quite . Lets just say that this trip had more clues to it , and at this time I won’t comment on them . These clues I found out there are Definitely and cannot be shaken as the Answer to the First Stanza, and relates exactly to the second stanza. The Best thing about it ….. It was not worked out by my own imagination of my
            Convinced understanding of the poem.

            The answer Lies in #8 .

            F said a while back he and a friend from the old neighborhood went fishing and he caught a large Rainbow. In the numerics
            he listed one ought me the most … #8
            In math #= to question … So question 8.
            8 is an number that never stops , and to me this poem is just that . I can walk the poem almost anywhere… Not because my mind plays tricks on me , but because my Imagination is Bold as F’s treasures Bold.

            Any way what you commented on I thank you , You are a true human being and it is my honor to meet you.

            As far as my family finding this thing . I hope we do also as well as we hope anyone who dose find it the best… And hope their treasures and dreams come true . We are trying to live ours , as a complete team, one unit , one family.

            Keep using it as brain food , I used it my self for the same reasons.

            Good luck all … IMO as always , I respect everyones opinions and feelings about this chase.

        • Ken, I must inform you of something that you may already know… YOU ARE A MIND READER!

          • Clever I Am , A person wiling to miss lead … You wish .

            My solve will be posted in full . Along with a short story of why we are looking.

            I don’t need to miss lead you or any other searcher. No of us know where that chest is and my information and or yours have not lead to the chest .So , how is it that I am miss leading you . Because I don’t brag on my solves or share all my info with you all. I share owr adventures as well as some understanding . But since you have tried to pry at me . I will give you a bite………

            My understanding of Heavy Loads and water high could be Mother Earth and Father Sky. In a place of Yellow Earth . That directly connects to Pottery and the color brown … Through a book found by looking at Eric Sloane … Or to call him by his real name… HINDRICHS say that three time fast ; “Hint of Riches” From there anyone who searches this material
            may find a path to a treasure , Im sure of that … Just is it Mr. F’s
            What funny to me about that is , that is not my Heavy loads and water high.

            As my Butter fly becomes a flutter bye , and My understanding of the Poem has become strong and , Yes we believe we have cracked the First and second Stanza. Not due to our Last solve , but because we did our home work.

            All this is Only My Opinion . And a fishing hook for all those who love the Chase. To be brought to a understanding that may lead us or you to the chest is my goal .
            But the prize , of course is the chest.
            Because it would give our Family the Chance to pay it forward, as did F.

            I wish every searcher the very best…

            We will Be filming again in Yellow Stone before the end of the Season … If not
            then we will be back there before next summer , and down to New Mexico to film by Mr.F’s house. Due to he is a bit camera shy these days and I don’t want to intrude on his privet life . We will only shoot the out side of his home for about 2 minutes.
            If any searcher would like to be involved in this , and would like to sign a card we would like to place there for his family , then you are more then welcome to meet
            my Family and talk TTOTC.

            We have made 10 trips to find the Chest . And we won’t stop until it is found !

            Good luck to all!!!

  97. Nice translation!

    Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
    And sorry I could not travel both
    And be one traveler, long I stood
    And looked down one as far as I could
    To where it bent in the undergrowth;

    Then took the other, as just as fair,
    And having perhaps the better claim
    Because it was grassy and wanted wear,
    Though as for that the passing there
    Had worn them really about the same,

    And both that morning equally lay
    In leaves no step had trodden black.
    Oh, I kept the first for another day!
    Yet knowing how way leads on to way
    I doubted if I should ever come back.

    I shall be telling this with a sigh
    Somewhere ages and ages hence:
    Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,
    I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference.

    by Robert Frost

  98. This is all cool stuff but what happened to ‘don’t mess with my poem’? Let me know if the TC gets reported found this weekend, I’m gonna take a break……lol!

  99. The cleared trail at the bottom of Pacheco Canyon Rd. under the Native American ceremonial ground blocked by a redwood tree? It has to be a reverential attachment to a location where a healing of sorts occurred. The owl flies down from the skies in the dead of night to bomb unsuspecting critters. Does he see himself as a part of the owl spirit (Airforce) before and after healing and the wisdom that arises in healing resistances to the typically unseen?

  100. More links to CMJ Media and Eric Edwards:

    The IP address of Pacific Horizon Ventures is
    The IP address of Where Warm Waters Halt is

    Both are registered through Wild West Domains.

    Additionally, if you open either the sispistoo.jpg or sispistoo1.jpg images in a text editor, you find lines similar to the following:

    Both Eric Edwards and Laurie Williams are listed as staff members at CMJ Media:


    • Looks like it stripped out the code that is found in the image. What you find are filenames and directory paths that include “eric edwards” and “laurie williams”.

  101. Well Appendix G and Sam Sam, you are sharp! Thank you for sharing what you found. 🙂

    Hi Eric and Laurie! Look around, most of us have no money to begin with, thats why we are looking for the treasure. 🙂 Good luck on your searches!

  102. Question to the people who found their starting point: Is it a trail, a basin, a creek or a mountain?


  103. From food safety, where warm waters halt is 40 degrees.
    The gps latitude of 40 degrees goes through Meeker, Colorado, and Boulder.

    The temp used to be 45 degrees. Which is the northern border of Yellowstone

    Did anybody consider this before? I did because I used to be a cook.

  104. I’m new. Discussing temps and coordinates, has anyone talked about using Fenn’s DOB 111.22.30 as possible starting longitude? It runs close to West Yellowstone and earthquake area. 30 degrees is frozen.

  105. Many searchers (especially Dal) like Madison Junction for their WWWH since the Firehole and Gibbon Rivers meet (and end) there, both have warmer than ordinary water temperatures due to hydrothermal influence, and there is a nice canyon heading west of there to “take it in the canyon down.” The warmer water of these two rivers is a little confusing from a fishing perspective since trout CAN be found in both, and “warm waters” in fisherman-speak typically means non-trout waters. But I’ll let that go.

    Dal has explained that his solve depends on where warm waters halt *not* necessarily implying that cold waters then begin, since obviously this wouldn’t work for the Madison River (warm Firehole + warm Gibbon does not produce cold Madison). While I like Dal’s candidate WWWH, I thought it could be improved upon if an alternate location actually had a true temperature transition: ideally a warm water source feeding into a cold one within a nice canyon.

    There is such a place in Yellowstone — actually a couple places that are near one another. One is “warm” in name only, while the other is warm (or rather, hot) in both name and actuality. Lava Creek “halts” at the Gardner River in Gardner Canyon, a few miles southeast of Mammoth Hot Springs. A few miles downstream to the north, the Boiling River empties into the Gardner right at the Wyoming/Montana border (45th parallel). Upon visiting Gardner Canyon a week ago, it is impressive. The trouble is that this part of the YNP is quite dry — almost desert-like — and there are very few trees. There is no place in the immediate vicinity where you could reasonably find yourself “in the wood”. While I like the desert, and I can even cobble together a play-on-words version of “home of Brown” for this spot, I don’t feel like this is the sort of place that would be particularly “special” to Forrest. So I’m crossing it off my list.

    With the exceptions of rt. 212 (the northeast exit out of the park) and rt. 14 east of Yellowstone Lake, I did drive every paved road in YNP. (If you can call the final 5 miles from Mammoth Hot Springs to Norris Geyser Basin “paved” — the road is gone here due to hydrothermal activity, with flagmen directing alternating 1-way traffic on the dirt and gravel). Of all of the car-accessible places where there was running water, a canyon, and decent forest, I will admit that Dal’s WWWH at Madison Junction was among the most aesthetic. But for the life of me I cannot come up with a good home of Brown associated with this WWWH.

    • Forgot one more TTOTC book tie-in for the Gardner Canyon candidate solution (though still not enough for me to like the location): page 133, immediately after the poem, he writes, “I dreamed the other night that I had been reincarnated as Captain Kidd and went to Gardiner’s Island looking for the treasure. It scared me so badly I was jarred awake and don’t remember whether I found it or not.”

      Some of you have probably noticed that the town of Gardiner, MT, just north of YNP is spelled differently from Gardner Canyon and the Gardner River that passes through both it and the town. There is even a triplet of small islands in the Gardner River just north of where the Boiling River empties into the Gardner. That said, the river wouldn’t have to rise very much to put all of these islands underwater — not a safe place to put a treasure chest if you want it to stay put for a millennium.

    • The Madison river could be ‘home of Brown’ since it is the river where Brown trout was introduced in the area. Hebgen lake could be ‘home of Brown’ since it is a prolific fishery of Brown Trout. They breed in Hebgen and travel up stream from there. Earthquake lake is also a fishery of browns.

  106. Would Forrest be able to get there and make two trips to his car and drive back in one afternoon? I don’t remember if he hid the treasure in a day or one afternoon. Dal, do you happen to know?

    • Forrest has said he hid the treasure in an afternoon, taking two trips (presumably once with the empty, or nearly empty chest, and a second time with the treasure to go in it). He has never said that the round-trip time from Santa Fe took a single day, though for New Mexico or southern Colorado locations he could have pulled it off in a day.

  107. He said he made two trips from where he parked his car ( it could have taken him two days to get there) and he did it all in one afternoon. First carrying the gold/treasure and then he went back to get the bronze chest and carried it back to his secret spot. Taking the gold first was a smart move…you wouldn’t want to leave it to be stolen while you were hiding the chest. You could—take a risk by leaving the chest behind, but not the gold. I would have done the same as he.

  108. At the risk of outing someone else’s secret WWWH, I thought I’d mention one of my early favorites within YNP. Surprisingly, a search of Dal’s entire website does not turn up this location, even though I think it’s pretty clever in a Fenn play-on-words sort of way. Since I can’t imagine that I’m the first to think of it, I’m guessing others may have just chosen not to reveal it because they liked it too much. It certainly works for the first 2 clues (or 3, if you think “I give you title to the gold” is clue #1), but I think the home of Brown is a poor fit.

    So here goes: WWWH = Ice Box Canyon. Get it? Ask a kid where warm waters halt, and I gotta believe some will say “in the freezer” (or ice box, for those of Forrest’s generation). Rt. 212 follows Soda Butte Creek, both of which pass right through Ice Box Canyon coming from the Northeast Entrance. This is one of the more dramatic parts of the park passing between Barronette Peak (10404′) and Abiathar Peak (10928′), followed by Mount Hornaday (10036′), The Thunderer (10554′) and Mount Norris (9936′). “Take it in the canyon down” brings you to the meadows of Round Prairie in a mile or so, which is a beautiful area. A mile beyond that and you are directly below Trout Lake, Buck Lake and Shrimp Lake.

    I thought Trout Lake might be perfect for home of Brown, but alas this lake is Rainbow and Cutthroat only, no Browns. Such a shame: Trout Lake is a relatively short, but steep 0.3-mile hike up from a convenient parking area, and the views are spectacular from that lake. Even the “heavy loads and water high” can be made to work, if you believe Fenn was describing his journey up to that elevated lake, burdoned with the chest on one trip and the contents on another.
    Maybe one of you can come up with a way to make this work, but I ran out of ideas (which is why I’m posting it), and anyway have come to dislike solves that are within a national park.

    • There are a few mentions of it on dalneitzel.com as a wwwh candidate, but I don’t know if it’s been searched. One of my friends likes it because of its proximity to Lamar Ranger Station.

    • hey zaphod. hunch here. yeah ice box canyon worked for me. I searched the lamar river valley extensively. seems you got it all figured out up to needing the blaze. an idea for the blaze is this – look quickly down, means see rapids below. plenty of rapids areas to search at that section of the lamar. I found skippy next to a rock there. and lots of other cool stuff but no bronze box. i probably missed it lookin over my shoulder for bears. he said no place for meek and its always rough stuff around rapids. the meadows are for slow moving lazy water. so, no use looking there. I dont know why you dislike within a national park. they are all full of treasure.

    • Thanks for testing, Dal. Will try a modified reply to Hunch again. If it doesn’t work, I’ll just let it go and write it off to internet gremlins. 😉 Message wasn’t that important.

      Hunch, all I was trying to reply with was that I do love national parks, but I just don’t think they are wise places for hiding treasure chests. Given all the time that Forrest had to think about the potential ramifications of secreting Indulgence within, say, YNP, I’d think he’d avoid it. But of course that wouldn’t stop people from *thinking* he hid it there, and unfortunately some fraction of those searchers are going to dig holes or otherwise “misbehave,” as we’ve already seen.

  109. I’ve read somewhere that Forrest hid the chest where a LOT of people have passed by it without knowing. Does anyone know if Forrest said anything like that?

    I have found where Forrest said people have been within 200 feet:


    “I assure you the treasure is out there and it’s waiting for someone that can figure out the clues and..and.. walk to the treasure.” – around the 14:52 minute mark.

    “I know that several people have been within 200 feet… approximately 200 feet of the treasure.” – around 16:13

    I haven’t found any quotes about a LARGE number of people passing by it without knowing it.

    Any one heard this?

    I’m heading out to Montana on Monday for my first search!

    Wish me luck!



  110. @nam there is some thing mentioned like that some where, something with large number of folks passing by, sort of like Pikes Peak or Old Faithful or who knows where or what, some sort of major tourist attraction…..YNP gets record breaking crowds every year, over 3 million. but the spot is special and private so go figure….I keep that it in mind when wondering about his special private place…..good luck and please share some pics afterwards…

    • Thanks Cholly. I remember reading it but didn’t remember if it was a quote or just someone speculating and didn’t make note of it. Wish I had. I’ve been looking for days just to find this quote! I sure will share pictures! Probably some while on the chase!

  111. I am thinking of a natural spring… some spring water is warm… bubbling inside a pool…(warm water halted)… Fenn is a trader and antiquities dealer rich in Native American and Frontier stories. and in those stories when the person though or talked.. it was taken in face value… keep it simple… obviously warm water halt is a spring… a spring next to a canyon.

  112. imo warm waters are rain and rain stops at an endorheic basin. The water in the endorheic basin does not drain.

    • Hi UA,

      If it doesn’t drain, how do you take it in the canyon down? I’m pretty sure there is flow, with water high below.

      just asking


  113. Okay here’s another one, Salt Lick Springs.
    Take 285 to 111, north of Ojo Caliente. Follow 111 about a mile north of La Madera. There is a bridge alittle past the spring.
    I was using the “where warm water salt” theory. also
    AS I the “I” = one. GONE ALONE the g”one” al”one” = 111
    “i” also could mean a spring. There is a small canyon down from the spring.
    That’s as much as I got from that ONE.

    • That “Salt” post partial solve the other day really got you thinking!

      I’m still thinking the Salt River Range looks good.

      Warm Water Salt
      Range River Salt

      Range being where you warm the water (AKA Stove).

      Scott W.

  114. Here’s one inspired by 42’s “It’s all about the F” post.

    I looked at Thirty Two Mile Gulch in Colorado. 32 = Warm Water Halt, as defined by many.

    Just looking at the map, there are subtle clues. Just north is Meeker. For the first time I can see how Meeker could possibly tie in to the poem if 32 Mile Gulch is WWWH. One could imagine that “No place for the Meek” might mean that is the wrong direction of travel from 32 Mile Gulch.

    Another is “Parachute” perhaps an unintentional clue.

    There are more.

    By the way, there are many Thirty-two, Thirty Two, and Thirty-two, geographic features in the search area. Few are South of Santa Fe.

    I’m still sticking to my Salt River Range idea, but I found this interesting.

    Scott W.

  115. Instead of using freezing water as halting, go backwards as if the water stopped boiling/halted. which I suppose would be the number 211, since 212 is boiling point of water. What is interesting is that 2/11(feb 11) is the 42nd day of the year.

    • Of course, if we’re restricting ourselves to locations above 5000′, water boils at 202 F or less.

      • Good point. Water only boils at 212 F when we are at 1 atmosphere (sea level). Therefore the boiling point of water is variable with altitude (external pressure).

        The definition of when/where water moves from a liquid state to a gas is “internal pressure = external pressure”.

        Scott W

  116. Without splitting hairs, the general sense of boiling water is 212 F degrees or 100 C degrees. the 211 is leading. in roman numerals it would be CCXI, but if you separated the numbers it would look like i i i i. or 4 i’s.- for eyes? 4 eyes? Maybe Glasses? National treasure had a clue with some 3d glasses. Or contacts? The movie contact had to de-crypt letters from another planet, and the way they did it was using 3D methods that turned pages into a cube. Has anyone tried to cube the poem? A cube unfolded looks like a cross. 6 stanzas and 6 faces on a cube

  117. I’m sure most would agree that there are several combinations of words found in the poem, including warm / cold. Examples are numerous and of various interpretation… meek / brave, begin / halt, tarry / leave, etc. My opinion is that the poem is straight forward in that wwwh is talking about warm and hot symbolism and “worth the cold” is talking about a cold scenario, like water high. Water at both ends, omegas at both ends… mirrors of opposites and mirrors of same. The poem creating a circle perhaps, the beginning like the end (imo not the same place). So bottom line – wwwh IS warm and worth the cold IS cold literally and symbolicaly

    • A lot of discussion on the blogs about Yellowstone geysers and hot springs, technically they don’t work because “Hot” is hot not “warm” Dals explanation of two rivers coming together halting the warm—makes sense.

      • I was just at YNP and went to Ojo Caliente, Forrest’s bathing spot. The water at the base of the spring where it combines with the Firehole is warm on the surface and cold below. Warm water definitely halts there.

        • This is true but a lot of folks not thinking deeply enough. I know ppl who say the Grand prismatic spring is WWWH. I’m like sure buddy try taking a swim in that.

          • I bet you could swim in the Firehole River where the water from the Grand Prismatic flows into. It’s not a sanctioned swimming hole, though.

  118. Well I just figured out Where Warm Waters Halt… My water heater just went out…LOL and my house is Brown. I think I’m really on to something here…

    • Jomur good luck with water heater. beware if you have yours in a closet on a platform please dont let the guy talk you into a bigger one without check the base. we didnt what a nightmare. of course it was our fault.

      • Could this be a sign… I just happen to be leaving on my first hunt tomorrow up to the Yellowstone Montnana area… Maybe I will be able to see the problem of the solve as if it were right in front of me….lol

  119. Between boiling point and freezing point all water could be considered warm because it’s subjective. If water is 45 degrees f, then theoretically 47 degrees is warm comparatively/scientifically IMO.

    Sccenarios where warm water halts imo are:
    1. At death – all bodily fluids cease and go cold.
    2. Water calcified into salt or stone formations
    3. Frozen
    4. Uranium warm/polluted catch ponds
    5. Containers holding warm water

    I believe Forrest’s place dear to him is where he last spent time with a loved one who passed away.
    The WWWH on the map in a broad sence and specific location are simply a story/poem to get you to that place.

    interesting to me:
    AF test pilots like Forrest are familiar with the Armstrong Limit – thousands of feet in altitude where water freezes in the air…but inside the human body all warm waters/bodily fluids boil – occurs at an altitude beyond which humans can survive without pressurized environment.

  120. Don’t know if this is the correct thread to ask this question. If not, kindly move it to relevant thread.

    Has FF said anything about the type of vehicle one needs to APPROACH the treasure chest? He walked “x” distance from his car to where the chest is hidden. Okay, fine. But what did he use to get to the spot where he got out, and walked? This question is not superfluous.

    Did he use, and does the searcher need,… a 4WD or a high clearance vehicle? Will a low-clearance city sedan do just as well? If the chest is out in the middle of nowhere, accessible only via 4WD, we need to know.



    • Ken, as far as I know he has never said what type of vehicle he used to hide the treasure. He owns or did own a Jeep Cherokee. You can see it in some of the pictures. This doesn’t mean he used it to hide the treasure. I would imagine Fenn could have access to any type of vehicle he wanted. There was a lot of discussion about this at one time. The opinions were far ranging as you can imagine and some even thought he used a horse; but a consensus was never reached to my knowledge.

      So don’t go anywhere a 79 or 80 year old man couldn’t go in his monster truck. 🙂

      • Ken, alright, first of all everything I say in this comment is IMO… As far as a 4 wheel drive vehicle or high clearance vehicle, I would venture to say that those would be considered to be special tools. f has stated to the effect that there are no special tools required to retrieve the chest. I ask myself, “Could a small child drive a high clearance vehicle?” Probably not. Now could a vehicle mentioned help a leave some of the muscle power needed to complete the task? Who knows, but f? It may be worth some thought. I could walk too my search area from home, but I can drive as well. Stephen Wright once said something like anywhere is walking distance if you have the time. The area may just be a place that is a nice place to take the dog for a walk. I have seen people walking their dogs where I go too. I have recently thought that I may not be able to go to my search area until my Christmas/holiday break. I expect the area could have 2-3 feet of snow at clues 6, 7, 8, and 9. I would not be able to take any vehicle to the area. Just good ol’ fashion foot power. Yikes! Remember… IMO.

  121. I agree with Goofy. What ever he drove, he parked and walked less than a few miles to hide treasure. Imo, it wasn’t more than a couple of miles one way. He had to make a repeat trip to his car and back, so that would be 4 stretches he walked. The spot could be 1/2 ml and x 4 will be 2 miles total. No one knows, I guess. It took an afternoon to hide it.
    I do suspect, imo, that the few who were 200ft (about 2/3rd length of a football field) from the treasure and didn’t know it, may have been on a trail lookout. They are usually a couple hundred feet from the tourist sight, so you can take pics. F may have gone passed that point, onto the un-trailed area to hide chest.
    He did say if you were 12ft from it, you would see it. Imo, the blaze is rather large and chest is sitting below blaze.
    He is partial to his 4wd jeep. If you go searching, and your spot calls for it, I would Def rent a 4wd.
    Just ALL imo.
    On with the search!
    ¥Peace ¥

  122. I’ve yammered on about this before…

    I believe that when Forrest mentioned WWWH..and said that there are many of them and most are north of Santa Fe, he was specifically talking about hot springs.

    I think he was simply pointing out that these hot springs could not be his WWWH because there are too many of them and unless you see a way in the poem to eliminate all but one of them you would not know where to start. Hence he said “there are many of them and most are north of Santa Fe.”

    Most folks seem to believe that a hot spring…or similar feature is the place where warm waters halt. I believe Forrest was using that opportunity to hint to us that this is an incorrect assumption and that his WWWH is something more unique, more interesting and knowing anything about ciphers or an education in geology is not necessary to find it. I think this was a clever hint from Forrest telling us that his WWWH is not a hot spring or “the like”.

    I do believe that his WWWH is a unique place. Perhaps there is only one of them in all of the Rocky Mountains…so there could not be any confusion about which one it is.

    I do believe that when Forrest told us that a map would be useful it was because his WWWH is located on most maps of the search area.

    If it is the WWWH that many of us have been using for four years it is certainly on the map in the TFTW book. It seems to be unique. I can’t think of another. It is well known and written about often as not only a unique place but also as a place where two warm rivers come to an end.

    In fact, Forrest has even mentioned that one of the rivers is getting warmer than it was when he was a kid and the fish have to move out into it’s cooler feeder streams in summer when the water heats up beyond its usual warm temperature.

    This place was there when Forrest was a kid…He was very familiar with it. He writes stories about areas in close proximity to it in his books…In my mind these are the “hints” in the book.

    For me this place adds up in all the ways that Forrest has declared we need to consider.

    Unfortunately for those searching closely in NM…this place is in WY, just 13 miles from where Fenn Haven was located.

    But maybe I am just suffering from wishful thinking…. 🙂

    • Do the clues really point to this place in your mind? Maybe I should take a trip in that direction just for a look see. I love look see’s Great post thanks for sharing and just being who you are. I thought you liked Montana for your solve. There I go thinking again. I found treasure in my dreams last night that was fun. I got to bring that to a reality point. Always Thinking you know J B

  123. Dal, thank you for your opinion on what wwh Fenn describes in his poem.
    I have searched Sentinel Valley, Fairy Fall, Old Faithful,the Firehole, the falls, the small lake that begins the Firehole, I even found the basement of the old motel, Queens laundry… I’m done with WY.
    I’ve discovered new answers to a few of the clues, pointing to NM. Hints of this are also in TOTC!
    My wwh is in NM.
    Search safe.

    • This is a funny thought as I walked up a creek where the warm water turned cold. True story, I felt this with my legs. Hmm Where warm waters halt I thought as I looked around and under every bush maybe I was close Maybe not. I believe that one can pin point this very important clue down Dal.

      But as you have said its in Wyoming. This is not where my event took place and a specific clue that is very hard to understand. Never the less One man knows exactly what he is talking about and I don’t think any clues were given by Forrest is to lead us astray. How do warm waters halt.

      Forrest mentioned one reference to bathing as a child and moving to cooler water. So I believe this happens in the water not a stop per say but a gradual mixing of cold and warm water. In the Colorado NM basin on the Rio grand the water travels 20 miles through a canyon and becomes cold water where fish can live. Or so I have read. You have been there.

      If it is a creek you can not paddle up. This could be because of rough water or it could mean its to shallow. Or as you have said in the past there is no water in it at all . Or it could simply mean there will be no paddle up your creek. The two references to water in the poem. Warm waters halt in dams lakes streams and creeks when the sun is shining or winter makes the warm water sink. You know. the place to start is somehow important to Forrest.

      If we could of spent our lives around him always we may know the answer. That would of been a great life spent by the way. I think we all should pitch in and get Forrest a helicopter ride to his favorite spot he mentioned in TFTW maybe his daughters and grand children could accompany him on this journey with the park’s approval. That way there are no regrets in his life. This would be a great thing to do for him I think. What do you think Guys and gals and Dal’s?.

      I have been to places to stay for the night where there was no warm water it was either hot or cold. That’s what I call a rough shower. Anyway warm water halted there. I think Forrest has done his best to lead us to this treasure and even if he told us exactly where it was, we would have a hard time finding it. Something, whether it being the spot or in ourselves would find conflict with how to proceed. That brings the word Brave to the forefront of my mind.

      Maybe its just me but a thinker I am. I’m not always right nor am I always wrong. We have to find balance in our lives. you know. I hate when my beer gets warm. Put it in the fridge to halt the warmth. The effort will be worth the cold if you are brave and in the wood I give you title to the gold. Where is that Milk box that Donny and Forrest was sitting by now? Have a great life always JB and Titan

  124. WWWH is the most important clue and Mr. Fenn has pointed out abundantly that not getting that location right leads to nothing. I have read the Poem hundreds of time, and I always fall back to pinpointing the correct location of WWWH. That being said, I wonder if anyone has ever considered Sinks Canyon State Parks Popo Agie River? There are interesting fact and parallels that seem to fall in place…….Any thoughts?

  125. I read about 90% of this blog and the comments yesterday (it’s always slow at work at the end of the month). IMO I believe WWWH is a hot spring. I understand the explanation of the 2 rivers coming together in Yellowstone concept as well as Dal’s explanation about it not being a hot spring due to Forest’s comment using hot springs as an example. 2 reasons why I still believe it’s a hot spring. #1 is that Forest was confidant enough with the hundreds if not thousands of hot springs North of Santa Fe that he could use that as an example during that interview without giving the location away. #2 is the comment about showing the poem to a child, or more importantly to a teenager, and I believe the answer I’d get would be hot springs for a WWWH.

    I have a solve after 5 months of “armchair” searching and will be putting my “feet on the ground” last week of April 2016. I’m planning a week long fishing trip with a life long buddy of mine and will check out my solve. Even if I don’t find it, I know this will be an awesome adventure.

    Happy hunting everyone and stay safe out there.

    • Woah! Heartfelt SL, thank you for the eye opener. Thank you all service members passed on or alive!

    • I wholeheartedly agree. Thank You, SL. And THANK YOU to all heroes past and present who paid a heavy price and were prepared to pay the ultimate price…and especially to all those who did. You are temporarily gone but not forgotten.

      Godspeed the day when all lay down our weapons of war.

      • JC1117 et al,
        A suggested way to honor our veterans would be to serve at a local VA Hospital. It may be for one day per month or more frequent visits. I started at one day each month helping out on bingo night. This helps satisfy, in a small way, my long held conviction that veterans are easily forgotten. Out of sight out of mind kind of thing.

        • Awesome suggestion and thoughts, JC117 et al and uken2it.

          Feeling so blessed & grateful that those giving Veteran heroes…didn’t forget about us, and especially “Out of sight out of mind” was not even part of their vocabulary.


        • Another option is to donate to an organization that helps our Vets. One charity we are involved in is “Homes for Our Troops” whose mission is “To build mortgage-free, specially adapted homes nationwide for severely injured Veterans Post-9/11, to enable them to rebuild their lives.”

          Help if you can.


  126. Hi

    What makes all of us think that WWH is a physical place? And not a understanding. The reason he said to start there is so you won’t look for a blaze first. Plus who says the blaze is a mark. ” Could be a blaze on a horse”
    F made a mistake while reading the poem and stumbled on the word “A” blaze and then quickly corrected him self and said ” the blaze”

    Of course you would start at Begin it where warm waters halt. If you read the first stanza correctly then “it” is not a blind spot any more nor is begin . I think the question “Begin what ” and what it is is profound.
    And if read correctly “it’s” is referred to 2 different concepts. This is confirmed by the last stanza ” If you are brave and in the wood I give you title to the gold”
    Declarative statement … Direct A-B. A straight line. something a child can do .


    I found a place that has 9 clues directly placed by F , would you think if you saw something like that , that you are in the right place?
    Followed by 9 more things he placed in a direct place.
    Now that would excite anyone, and no Im not gonna say where that is , that would be crazy to tell a bunch of folks looking for a million dollars. Who you know dang well wouldn’t share with you if they found it by your posted information . And how would it make you feel if someone found it off your post and didn’t even thank you?
    Well , I guess the best advice is my own! Don’t post it ! With that said , my jokes will be the most of the new posts I will be sharing .

    I recently sent a solve to Dal , then realized that Dal was kind enough to share with me , and I was able to build a great concept off of that. But , I have asked him not to post it here . The reason , well I have had a few people lately email me and try to soke us for information. The funny thing is , I never share the real understands of my solves , never have … Only a shell . Why , Im not in a race or compilation with any one to win the “all time solve record” on “TTOTC “. I need no medal from any one or a pat on my back for my own work on this. If I find it or not , no prize there. I don’t feel I need to look smart to any one nor need any one’s logical opinion of Forrest F and or how he hide it. For one no one knows where it is … so to act like we do is folly. The only thing that matters is getting out with the kids so they don’t miss out on the real world while others are on their machines making them dumber. ” Dumber ” Yes… Whats the need to use your memory if you can google all . And funny there , Google information is Not excepted by most Universities due to the fact that it is 10000 hand info. Not to be trusted is how my professor contested . Copied information of a site that is .com is frugal he would say. Every one knows of the .com boom , and the market created by it.

    My Clues
    Even with the clues I have unlocked , I still cannot figure out what they mean .
    I can translate half that poem , but non of you would believe me anyway , and I still don’t know what “it” means . But I know how to use ‘it” Im sure……..
    Cant put “it” to a map yet . But have a good one.
    Along with me knowing and for sure, and can say only one clue is in TFTW ,
    and that’s the poem and Map. Why ? Not gonna tell ya. It has cost me thousands of dollars to answer that question . But by no means should any of you take my word for it. You should pick up every wanna , and metal enough with that thing
    to have may be struck a blaze. But the blaze I have is not a mark or a physical understanding , but a MetaPhysical one . I love that guy Hindrichs wise man .
    But , I really like the way F is , and didn’t really understand him at all until recently
    when I understood how funny he is in hi cleverness. You can find his cleverness in the first part of the preface in TTOTC .

    NEW Searchers

    One asked not long ago where a good place to start is .
    One searcher was quick to shoot him down ..
    So … Here is a better answer… Read the poem , memorize it front to back .
    Remember all yo need is the poem , I would start with the definitions.
    Then read the book , while reading the book , try to match clues with in the stories.
    Yes I can say that another way but I will not give away my understanding.
    Clues are sprinkled like Tinker Bell and are there but fairy dust disapperas
    but the concept is still there. Not the physical . Look at the concepts like Disney rides 9 of them . A little easier to understand.
    Your not going to find it on a blog. No one is going to say what they really know , unless they have already been there and don’t mind sharing , but what I mean is
    it the chest is not in your computer. You must get out of your house and do some research on the ground.
    You would never know how many blazes are in Yellow Stone unless you have been there to see them . It took me 2 years in bed and 1 on the ground to learn that lesson . Don’t spend your money with out knowing for sure where you are going , and are familiar to the area. Turin is different in each state and present their own hazards. Pack for safety, Bring all you will need against the climate, and water is most important while at high altitudes . Vitamin C is a self save towards altitude sickness.
    Make sure while in the wood you are loud , and in a group of 2 or more.
    Bears are pretty and graceful until they don’t know your around and you scare it .
    Careful of animal dens . Wild cats come down the mountain durning the spring to give birth . Usually in a rocky area and where wild life is present . All the animals come down for food at that time so be care full . I had a run in with a grizz in Yellow Stone . I was freeking out , while he softly walked away after growling and looking at me shaking his head as if to say there goes the neighborhood . As well as my run in with a mountain lion , and our nearly charged selves by a young male
    buffalo who was not happy we were in his area. He was rutting and everything … Boy that was the closest incounter we had. But our camera man is not very wood friendly and started to run while that buffalo was watch him like a target.
    Be care full , stay safe F did not risk his life to hide it , so why would you to find it.
    It is not at the top of a 1000 ft cliff .

    Final in Saying

    Every one is intelligent , which of us can hear them ?

    Will they ever escape the dark,
    Will they ever set free their light,

    Sitting high perched looking ,
    Watching them go by ,

    As we watch and meagerly fly by.

    Set free their site ,
    make way , safe flight
    to save ,
    Those caught in the night.

    Our will we set by and watch
    as evil wins the fight ?

    Einstein said once
    ” The world will not be destroyed by evil doers ,
    but by those who stand and watch ”

    “Imagination is the Key to flexibility and that’s why I waited so long to hide the treasure”
    Forrest Fenn
    ” The Answers I already Know ”
    “I’ve done it tired and now Im weak ”

    My favorite parts of the poem .

    Good luck all .
    I had posted I was looking for Team Members for the Chase , My Team is now Full. Sorry all who were thinking about it , but I have filled the team and no new members will be brought in . We ll have signed parers from a filming company
    protecting our Intellectual property as a whole . We all are even in split if found and we are very serious about finding this treasure . The one slot that was left was excepted by a blogger here Mindy . She was the last of the Team . Unless she has conditions no one else will be contacted , so thank you for all the emails about the slot. And we have chose Mindy and She has excepted that position . We are very happy to have her , every one know how intelligent she is , and her and one of my solves are running very close together . Great minds think alike.

    Good luck all ,
    Oh I may make a exception for 2 more ; Goofy , Wiseone , or Jamie

    Jamie , I have asked and Im waiting for a answer.
    The team is looking GREAT!!!!

    One more time for any one who would like to email me

    Hope to hear from you Jamie , I really think your very special and have a lot to offer the team .

    • I do appreciate the offer Mike but I’m a bit of a loner. Good hunting to you all.

      lux ex tenebris

      • Thanks Goofy , I had too . You seem to be a strength of logic when mine is tired.

        ex tenebris lux

    • Thanks for thinking of me mike! I’m
      flattered- you seem quite smart with a great team also! The sheer nature of solves and secrets and teams puts my position being joining a team I don’t even know and a solve i don’t even know what is, so it doesn’t really make sense for me cause it would limit my own ability to explore stuff and that freedom of curiosity is my favorite part! I 100% understand why you can’t explain first…but I’m not a fan of mixing trust and contracts at all anyhow, I’m super anal retentive about keeping my word, and I gave my word to Mindy long ago on keeping our secrets to, so even though we may not be out treking or whatever lately Its still my word and I’m bound to that so I’m certain it would be a conflict of interest on every lever of my being. Lol. That being said- I’m glad to help you guys in whatever capacity I can though! It sounds exciting no need to know the solve or whatever. Just say the word if there’s something I can do, I love to research stuff!

      • Im sorry but I trust contracts. A contract is concrete. A persons word now a days , in a Million dollar treasure hunt. Im sorry sweetie I rather fight a alligator. But that’s just me .

        Funny I had no Idea what Goofy was even talking about,
        and I wrote that poem because that is how I felt. As the one watching every one perched. But I have a cool gift I guess , when Goofy sent me that I learned from Him , and so I commented back what I learned from Him.

        Thanks all I have been able to put my Team together pretty easy and Yeap its a great one. Mindy was the only outsider on this Team . The rest were family , so yep your so right , Im on the best team in the whole world .
        And since Mindy told me Forrest Told her she has four clues, and to my guess you are part of that “your and Mindy’s Secrets” , I must help her keep her word and her stay as part of your alls team . Why would Mindy want to be apart of my team if forrest fenn confirmed to her by email she has four clues and she is on your team.

        SO … I guess you and Mindy figured this all by your self . Awesome so Mindy Wont be soaking me for information
        while really she and you are a Team .Glad to know who is who Thanks.

        Dal your a great man and I respect you to the highest level. Please forgive me for bring human here . But I must!

        I will not post on this site ever again =(
        Due to the fact that folks like this can take advantage of a guy like me , who had 7 surgeries , stuck in a bed from a accident for 2 years barely able to anything and some days couldn’t at all . Where I have 5 kids , and had
        nothing .
        Using this chase as a rehabilitation , a place to put my mind while in recovery .So one day I put a solve out and a person offered to go for me . Ah should have known , of course you would go for me theres a million in gold and what people will do for that is mind boggling… and to be apart of that is not good for my sole. I thought out of kindness , until I see the real vail . Shame on you all .

        Never again …

        As far as the chase… I don’t know yet. To be honest , I think Im close . I have found 9 things placed by Fenn . Not 4 , 9
        And funny I think I can decipher that whole poem . ” Mother Earth and Father Sky ” Heavy Loads and water high , funny .

        Has it been worth the cold ? I don’t know .

        I may after this small happening , never look again.

        No need to comment on this post . I will not be re posting here .

        To the ones I do respect , thank you
        Forrest Fenn
        Goofy for your wisdom sir . I learned a lot from you.
        Seeker your harsh words keep logic real
        Spellias for your kind words when I really needed them .
        and any one elese who was kind to me while in recovery
        =) Thanks

        • Mike,
          Harsh might be a tad harsh, in meaning… maybe if we twist it a bit, incongruous: not in harmony… or Undemocratic: not according to democratic principles, We can make it work.

          Respectfully. { insert smiley face } How I ended up named with such a good group of folks is beyond me… but, I thank you sir.

          • Thats my point , seeker . It was not beyond you . Why do people think they have to do something to inspire a life . Or why do they have to know . Well you have to know because that was the Truth . I reepected your views and concepts and you never let your guard down at all . You corrected my lthinking a time or two and you weren’t the nicest about it. But I learned some from you . What was that yo ask … To seek … to go beyond in learning all I could . I wanted to be as smart as you and some of the others .

            PTSD is not easy to explain . Its like little pieces missing form you and you forgot what they were . And sometimes you remember . But , when you meet folks who have those pieces , it reminds you of what you forgot . Make any sense ? So I saw that in you and it re thought me to think twice. Each person I mention was for a reason. You just so happen to be the first I spoke to on this site.

            Im only posting this for you . Im done with the blog. I have more important things to do now . Like find my own treasures.
            Which I have , My family who was waiting of me for along time.

            The Chase gave me a reason to look out the front door again . And some off the folks in here , kind of gave me the courage to find the strength with in my self to act on the solves I was putting together .

            Funny I was praying at that time for a little light to help me get through the tough times I was having with healing. I was not healing right . My body is pretty broken .

            The Chase was already going I decided to get involved . The first time I asked for help someone on the blog said , well
            why don’t you go your self If you know where it is .. I had a hard time not letting them have it. Knowing I could not walk at that time to the mail box let alone the mountains , was a hard secret at first on the blog to keep .
            But I forgot this is a chase to a million in gold , so I was trying got make friends and build a team to find the chest . My goal was to re hide the box if found , and donate half my book to cancer in honor of my dad and f , and the rest to a pay it forward program for those who were train got escape poverty , in which I lived in .

            Any way , the chase impacted me in many ways . I was overly educated by it . I learned stuff I could not even dream of in school. Since all I have is 9th grade and 2 years of adult seeking higher education , i figured what the heck and learn some new stuff. Beats all the study I have on ancient cultures and languages I had been studying my whole life. All there is there is back there is how we burnt our kids to learn . Yea learn … We cook them so oracles could eat them , the smell would excite the demon and or spirit
            and it would possess the oracle and the demon would teach , math , science, war, music .. ect. Hey don’t take my word for it look it up . Baal Beck is a great starting point .

            Never th less , I rather look of ra gold treasure then that .

            So That is why I commented abut you . So know you know , yo influenced a guy who was in a bed for two years to get off his butt and find out. Now can you manage me just saying that out right , and is it impossible for us who are not Forrest Fenn’s or Eric Sloanes to inspire peoples lives. Of course we can . I have …

            My friend and colleague Jake Fink
            is inspired by our Family . My Friend Mike Wolf , the same … Im no one to be inspired by , but a kid in West Yellow Stone would argue that when he told me I was living my dream looking for the chest.

            Take care thank you again .

          • Mindy, I haven’t been able to read all the posts on the blogs, but do you know where that bit of misinformation came from? Was it just because Forrest said someone may have solved the first 4 clues and someone just assumed it was you?

          • Maybe CJ…I had commented that I’d sent Forrest two sets of four clues, but I never said he confirmed them. I don’t know where that bit of misinformation came from…

        • Mike –

          Best wishes to you and your team……… stay safe and have a great adventure. 🙂

          Looking forward to a full report on the journey – and if not that – a photo of the treasure. !!!

        • Wow. Sounds sad indeed. I am glad this is over for me. I am scheduled to reveal my solution to the powers that be over the land/property that is at my solution’s end. I am glad to know that the “thrill” has not become a “horror” for me and now is the time for me to end it while I can still look back on the adventure with smiles. Best to all.

          • crowfeast –

            Sorry to see you leave us……… I hope the hunt fulfilled something in you that was not there before.

            If you just sent your solve to Forrest, it would be a good idea to send it to Dal, too – so it could be posted here. Just an idea for you.

            Best of all good things to you in your future…….

        • Hi Mike,
          I sense quite a bit of excitement in your comments here today. That’s a good thing! I’m happy for you.

          You know… In all our crazy crypticness here on the blog, to be able find someone that we can relate to, can be quite comforting. At least it is for me. And I have found some of that in your words. So thank you!

          “Imagination is better than knowlege”… and
          “Indecision is the key to flexibility”…

          So, if after you travel to where your imagination has taken you on this quest, and it ends up being just a dream, at least you went there…

          “They never knew that it was the chase they sought and not the quarry”…

          So go see what there is to see… Experience IT!
          You never know… you could be right. But if not, you can always be flexible and decide to come back and tell us of your travels. I, for one would love to hear about it.

          I do wish you luck, and hope you find peace and happiness wherever your journey may take you.

          • Inthechase, Thanks – Maybe some day it will make it to this blog. Not sure, Giving Forrest a bit of time and the powers over the land/property a bit of time to digest first. Will not know until end of November. 🙂

        • Mike,
          I’m sorry I can’t be on your team. I stand by my word that I will not share anyone else’s solve. If I had chosen to be a part of your team, I would not have shared your solve with Jamie. And I wouldn’t have shared Jamie’s secrets with you. But I WOULD have shared my portion of the treasure (if we found it) with Jamie, because we are tight like that.

          I wish you the best of luck, and I’m sorry for any misunderstanding.

        • MikeD-
          HOLY SCHNIKEYS MIKEY!! C’mon dude….check yo’ self foo! Wtf?!??
          i’m truly sorry to hear of your troubles and do wish you well. But what was THAT?!?

          I am not aware of poetry between you and Goofy but if your remark is about you guys writing “ex tenebrus lux” and me writing “ex George’s Luk” in retort…that was a compliment as you had said you were a kindred spirit in being a huge Sloane fan I foolishly assumed you knew he and John Sloan were actually a three and had another mentor “George Luk” who was ADMIRED even though Eric didn’t take his name. so that was just my way of saying I was wishing you luck even though it wasn’t a good fit for me to put my name on.
          Yes, Mindy and I had a big solve last year and went on a trip and shared a bunch and gave our words no to repeat as we both were sharing everything and not keeping any “shell” or “hole cards” at all. No, there was not a business contract written out, but it was still a promise and would make it impossible for me to offer anyone full disclosure even if I was smoking crack had any desire at all to work on someone else’s solve instead of my own. This is fun and friends to me so I wouldn’t want to limit or do anything that would close down my own abilities to follow whatever roads I like. Just last week I was chasing little green men in my imagination and loving it. If someone contracted me to find to find real gremlins they were chasing as a business I’d say no and explain it that the pressure of the business alone might lower my fuzzily wiggly Pygmy psychic redar abilities as well. It’s a very delicate nerve in that ‘sense’ but more of a hobby than a job…I just like to be able to wander off! And that’s nothing personal to you at all!
          As far as the undertones directed at Mindy and others….I’m not quite certain how to even dignify that with a response except to Marvel Gaze at my phone wondering how to properly word the fact that Mindy has more Character in a ball of her own toe jam than all the leadership skills in that entire post combined…to the googeleth power….Plus one…seeing we should offer a positive integer so as not to insult math as well.
          Mindy never said forrest said that, she never said she was right, and I don’t even need to bat an eye or ask her….your temper tantrum fully explains the motive, even though that girl would probably still change your diaper for you of you had an accident in the process. Why? Because she has class. And that’s the exact same reason I don’t deal with people’s whose words need to be backed up with a paper contract. I find the latter often tends to need the contract to protect themselves when they spit venom and lasers shoot out of their eyes unannounced…so it makes me wonder who the “contract” is truly protecting in the first place. Probably the one that wanted it….that is currently identifiable by the lasers shooting from their eyeballs. Just IMO. Maybe it’s a Roman candle or the shock and pain of a million trembling unborn flowers. Who knows?! Not me!
          I’m am sorry also to hear about your extensive health and other stressors in your life and will assume that outburst of insinuation was maybe a result of displacement. I’m sure Mindy and others also understand as we’ve all had our moments we made ourselves into complete tools as well. so don’t be to hard on yourself tomorrow is a new day and I doubt anyone will crucify you for making one post full of lies and undertones intended to create drama–it’s no big deal and will be forgotten as fast as you can post under a diff. Psuedonym and complete the dramatic disappearing act. DavidBlaze might be neat? Kinda like a pun on DavidBlaine? I don’t know…don’t sweat the small stuff and try and laugh at yourself with us just a little. It’s not so personal that people are in love with their own their ideas as much as you are in love with yourself. Were all just fish in the sea. In the hole in the bottom of the sea that is. 🙂 keep your chin up and I lol forward to seeing existing old and new moniker soon. Always a delight and surely unique 🙂

          • Crow/Mike…from the above comments it appears you are one person forgetting to switch your moniker back and forth just 2-3 of your comments or so and Maybe I’m totally wrong and it just reads funny, but if so I Figured I’d give you a heads up to be more careful in case you didn’t want everybody to notice and find out or wanted to keep it private or whatever.

  127. Nov 9, 2015
    David here

    This is my solution for WWWH.
    From the poem: “Begin it where warm waters halt.” (waters is a given, you know water, H2O, non-believers may stop reading now).
    There are two words that are key: warm and halt.
    I give my solution first, so readers can think about this as I explain how I got there.
    WWWH is a lake.
    I will cover waters “halt” first. It’s in the nature of things. It has to do with the science of water. It’s in the water. Many of the lakes in the Rockies were created back in the last ice age, so let’s say 10,000 years ago, no 15,000, somewhere in there, you pick. So water halting in the lakes has been happening every year since. It happens every year and will continue till the end of time, I think this passes the time test. Yes water, water is very, very unique in the way it reacts to temperature. Did you know that water Is most dense (heaviest) at 4 degrees C (39.2 degrees F). (that’s why ice floats, remember at 32F, it is less dense so weighs less than liquid water). Water is less dense on either side of 4 degrees Centigrade.
    lets think about a lake heating in the sun all summer, (in F degrees now) 55, 60, 65,… we may never know the max temp, we’re in the Rocky Mountains and not going to take it’s temperature. It doesn’t matter. This is thermal stratification of the water, coldest on the bottom and warmer towards the top, (this is not the warm clue). Along comes fall/winter and the water temp starts to drop, drop, drop. When it hits 39F(the heaviest) the water halts, it takes another turn. The lake over turns, turns over, cycles, mixes, from top to bottom. lake waters halt and take another turn. So that’s the halt part.
    I think Mr Fenn hints of my solution in TTOTC page 4, the preface.
    From the book: “if any readers over the age of twelve don’t see a little of themselves in this mirror, then maybe they deserve another turn.” Think lake.
    Now let me cover the “warm” part.
    This is how scientists refer to different types of lakes. Scientists have to put everything a little box, each kind in its own box. They call these categories with sub-categories , and two (2) kinds of lakes are of interest, they are defined as “warm lakes” because of location, the lake depth, a bunch of stuff, so it’s “warm something lakes” , warm is right in the name of the category. So there’s that to think about.
    I have shared some of the comprehensive knowledge of geography that I have recently acquired, but it all started with a few words written by Mr Fenn and my imagination. Mr Fenn says there are lots of WWWH places in the Rockies. I agree.

    • Hi David….

      The chase has inspired so many of us to expand out thinking and go exploring in places we never thought about. The research that the hunt has taken me on is very cherished.

      It is amazing how so many of us come up with completely different solves and for various reasons. I always say follow your gut feeling and then try to relate what you find – back to the poem.

      Imagination is what makes the world go into unexplored places.

    • David, one of my solves used Yellowstone Lake as my WWWH, not because it was warm though, but because it is a cold lake with a lot of warm or hot streams flowing into it but the water flowing out to form the Yellowstone River is pretty cold. The top layer of water is about 66 degrees in the summer and much colder at lower depths. I’ve moved on from that original solve as I couldn’t make everything fit but I still liked the idea.

    • David, You are correct about the warm lakes…I like that idea as a possible wwwh. They are called “warm monomictic lakes”…one example is Dal Lake in Srinagar, India…Dal never told us he had one of these named after him.

        • Jamie jones
          You need to take a time out, or at least step back, and think.

          This is for a discussion about Where Warm Waters Halt. We’ve all got ideas that didn’t work out or we are willing to share…I think we can give folks just starting out some ideas for the kinds of places that might just be the place Where Warm Waters Halt…or not!

          Let the discussion begin…


          I posted here to share, 11 other blogs and i picked this one.

          When i named this lake in a face to face with Mr Fenn at least he thought it was “very interesting”.

          Janie Jones ….. Jeez Dal

      • Thanks cynthia,
        Yes, and the other warm one is “warm polymictic lakes”. The diff is how often they take another turn. It’s complicated, scientists cant even agree on whether there can be ice cover in the winter. so theres that to think about.

  128. I have searched in the Sinks Canyon area.I have moved on to another area…but there is still one spot there I might return to for a closer look.

  129. Thank you CJ… So nice to know about this. I found two in my area looks like one is completed and the other one in Graham is just starting… I had the I guess I would say now fortunate experience of spending about six months with my father at the Seattle VA spinal cord unit… Wow what an amazing group of people… I know a lot of people bad mouth the VA but all I saw was a lot of caring loving people doing a really tough job and doing it well… I also saw a lot of young men who were very brave and facing their challenges with a smile on their face… Thanks again for the link…

      • Thanks, I used the first site you sent… You are able to select the person you want the donation to go to so I choose Samual Shockley in Graham WA… They asked how I heard about the site I said CJinCA on Dal Neitzels Forrest Fenn Blog lol bet they haven’t heard that one before…

        Here’s the other link again I got a bit lost from your first post… All you Northwest Bloggers should go donate!!!


        • I’m sure they never had a referral like that before! 🙂 Our donation was earmarked for a vet from N.Cali and we went to the ribbon cutting ceremony. Very grateful vet as were the organizers. We hadn’t done any work on the home or yard ourselves but there will be other opportunities to do that for another vet’s home.

          Thanks for donating to Homes for Our Troops!

          To stay on topic. I don’t think WWWH is any where around here. 🙂

  130. If a new angle is needed to solve this, could a mirror reflection be used? Like…
    Begin it where COLD waters START?
    Or, would this be “messing” with the poem too much? Just a thought…imo. thanks!

    • Donna,
      I tried that thought process for a couple of weeks, I didn’t get far with it. I have come to the conclusion that if Mr. Fenn is targeting the younger people to go and search, the adults are over thinking the poem and need to get back to the basics. With that being said I joined this search in late spring, have logged over 4000 road miles, 30 foot miles on 5 different trips and am probably no closer then when I started. I was certain I had HOB figured out last trip, and again think I have maybe found it but will not know till spring now.
      I have had good times looking and always plan my trips around some Fly Fishing adventure so I am never disappointed. Mr. Fenn has allowed me to look at myself and my life in a different perspective and I am working on my second turn. For that I will always be grateful.

  131. “Begin it where warm waters halt
    And take it in the canyon down,
    Not far, but too far to walk.”

    all below is IMO
    I have come to believe that the part of stanza 2 that I posted above is a riddle within the puzzle and just one clue. I believe once one can determine what “it” is, you have solved that clue. I believe “it” can logiclly be determind and “it” is percise place. I have came to the conclusion that “it” is a river and I would like to discuss this possibilty. Anyone else in this boat?

    • “it”
      is definitely on my radar but I believe the answer to “it” lies in the first stanza. IMO

      • I do now believe that stanza 1 helps to point you in the dirction to find the correct “it”. With just wwwh and not the entire sentance it’s not enough to logiclly determine that clue IMO.

      • PS: Count, IMO the journey is down a river, so you are pretty close to my belief. The only problem you have to on the same river the FF is talking about. So if you find the river he is talking about, you’ll be very close finding to the TC.

        • Thats the way I thought for a while but I just can’t get over the put in which seems like fenn is using it as a boating term. I just looked into the last time boats were allowef on rivers in yellow stone and the answer is 1950 the last year Fenn went to YNP with his family which means the entire time he was a youngster in YNP he would of been allowed to boat rivers that we are no longer allowed.

      • one of my only problems for believing it is a river would mean that the it in stanza 3 would also be the same river.

  132. Sorry I am new here and have read through almost all the comments…A couple of thoughts that have been discussed and few that I cant find discussed:

    1. If his wife doesnt know when he hid the treasure, how could he have went further then say 5 or 6 hours away from home? If he went to say, Yellowstone, which is 14 hours away, wouldnt she be suspicious of a 79 year old man being gone so far away for so long? So wouldnt this limit the search to somewhere he could make it there and back in one day without being missed?

    2. If he hid the treasure in a national forest, wouldnt he have known the finder of the treasure would be breaking the law if they removed it?

    3. IMO I think if anyone finds it, that there will be a lot of luck involved rather than great planning and strategy. With so many places that warm water turns into a lake or where a warm river runs into a cold river, that it will be someone with a good guess.

    • FF never said that he had been at home on the day that he hid the treasure. He never said that he only has one home. He never said whose home he was at on the day he hid the treasure. He never said if he was on vacation at a hotel or camp site. There is no reason to assume that he was in Santa Fe on the day he hid the treasure…IMO.

      • Sorry I was reading this imo I don’t think FF would take the treasure on vacation. That’s a lot of weight to carry around and his wife would know if he did it have it on him anymore imo

      • I guess that is true…I know if I were gone for a brief period of time my wife would know where I was and when I was gone and I am only 40 haha
        But yes you are correct no where are the details stated of when or the circumstances behind it. But why are the first assumptions its in Yellowstone. I know he loved it there, but I am sure there were many places he was very fond of. I will admit though my research always leads me back to Yellowstone area so I am guilty too.

      • F did say (paraphrasing) that Peg has it narrowed down to two moments, maybe in 2010 if I’m counting correctly. Perhaps at least one is a date he attended a BB Center of the West board event in Cody? That would enable him time in the park.

      • I like the E.C. Waters on Stevenson Island as wwwh. Steamship stranded. And the first poem in F’s book is lyrics from an Ernest Tubb remake called “Waiting on ships that never come in.” Could just be coincidental.

  133. It’s interesting to me that there is so much discussion on where warm waters halt and still no absolute answer after all this time. Particularly interesting is all the chat about exactly where does warm waters turn cool or cold? Wouldn’t that question also work in the opposite direction? Example, where does warm waters halt before it becomes hot or boiling? I get that searchers are saying cool or cold because of the canyon down and how water and rivers flow down out of a canyon. But on a scale, temperature wise, where exactly does warm waters halt before it becomes hot or cold? Is there an exact number or range for warm? Or is it that warm halts before freezing point or boiling point? Just trying to throw some thoughts out there as I’m reviewing each word of the poem.

    • Ramona, initially I was thinking along those lines (that warm waters halt could be considered two ways, not just cold, but boiling as well, and I had various thoughts along those lines.) But now I may be back to thinking to interpret as the cold (maybe.) If you think about it, there are other ways for warm waters to halt other than temperature as well, or any water for that matter.

  134. There is a certain creek in Colorado loaded with hot springs. This creeks flows into a cold river. This cold river flows thru a canyon. On one side of the canyon and up a hill is a town and graveyard having a name different than it was in the
    1800s, the old name had brown in it. On the other side of the canyon is a seasonal gulch which goes up 7 miles to a wetland park. Along the way are numerous boulders, rock outcroppings, etc. As you gain in elevation the view of the Rocky mountain peaks is spectacular. Typical of this terrain and elevation is Pinion Pine, Juniper, Cedar, and sage brush. I think the treasure is in this area. But what are the “heavy loads” and what is the blaze? I Think the blaze is an aluminum marker of some kind.

    • Dennis. Can we start on the line before the one you are asking about because I think they may be related in some way, “There’ll be no paddle up your creek” could be a hint to tell you to go towards the creek, but you don’t need to paddle it. This could mean that you don’t need to travel in the creek itself, just be near it or even a hint that you should head down stream. Now, add “heavy loads and water high”… I see either big rocks and snow on the mountains (or clouds in the sky). I don’t think F would refer to something like clouds, but mountains that have year-round snow capped peaks could fit. For that matter a heavy loads and water high could be a tongue in cheek way of referring to the mountains covered in snow. Just my musings on your question. I strongly suspect that a boat is not necessary in any way because F didn’t carry a boat with him while he made 2 trips back and forth to the hiding spot.

      Now, my question. I keep reading about the 42 pounds, but he made 2 trips from his car to the spot in question. So is that 42 pounds per trip for a total haul of 84 pounds or would that be 21 and 21 pounds… with carrying water to drink and a few other pieces of gear, I think 21 pounds each trip makes more sense. Have you seen anything about this? Maybe it doesn’t matter, but it is a curiosity to me.

    • hey dennis,I live in arvada,co you talking about Nederland,and yes it is a beautiful area.I know it used to be called brown.been riding all over that area and estes park,and national forest.not far from central city and Blackhawk.

  135. I’d like to think warm is meaning “welcoming” waters, a place that had a welcoming feeling to it. PS….Pack around 20 lbs and you won’t be walking that far. Not far = near. It’s quite a heavy load. Ya.heavy load.

  136. Here’s my thought: In order for there to be a treasure hunt, there needs to be a starting point. A lot of the thoughts that I have read have been very broad or generalistic. For example, there are several hot springs in these states. There are several places where warm waters stop. Hypothesizing which location Mr. Fenn would be describing would be a complete waste of time.

    I think this very clue tells us precisely the starting point, without having to fear that we might be at one of several different possibilities. My initial thought was, “At what temperature does warm water “halt”, or freeze? 32 degrees.” I checked out 32 degrees Latitude on the map and it turns out that the line is just south of where Mr. Fenn has claimed the treasure to be hidden. But, it got me thinking more on the lines of that, as a clue.

    “Where warm waters halt.” Where water freezes. Where water stops. Freezing Point. Cold Point. etc. The only thing I could find is that there is a place in Western Colorado called “Cold Shivers Point”. Strangely enough it leads right into a canyon. Anyway, with that said, I think it would make more sense to start in a location thats name actually is an answer to the clue. What are your thoughts regarding this?

    • I don’t see anything wrong with the thought. I like the idea of keeping it as simple as possible… something a teenager could do. Alternatively, I’ve been thinking about “halted” waters too and been wondering about tepid waters or even stagnant waters. Tepid waters are less than warm and more than cool. Does this point to a single location? I don’t have reason to believe this over your idea. I’ve also wondered about placement of the poem on the map, too.

  137. some luke warm trivia regarding some folks’ wwwh:
    the Boiling River was apparently first named by USGS scientists in the 1880’s (Bargar, 1975) as the “Hot River”. It has also been called “Warm-Stream Creek” and “Chestnutville” (wha?)

    if interested I can send the url; it has some nice color pics of what look suspiciously like Pinyon Pine trees up on Pinyon Terrace above Mammoth Hot Springs. Imagine that. 😉

    • @joey, what two major hints in the stories from TTOC, and a couple on the edges, continue to point you so strongly to Earthquake Lake?

  138. I believe where warm waters halt is the confluence of the Delores and San Miguel rivers. The Delores river slows to a trickle as it flows thru Paradox canyon eventually merging with the San Miguel. The former town of Uravan, Colorado once overlooked the confluence. Uravan was where they mined yellow cake uranium for the atomic bombs that ended WW2. The town became a super fund site, and was buried in a giant hole and covered with 100’s of feet of rock. I believe Uravan is the dirty mining town FF references in his first book. As you head down the canyon of the San Miguel you encounter the remnants of the hanging flume built in the 1800’s. The flume was used to get water to the strip mining camps searching for gold about 15 miles down the canyon. About 20-25 miles down stream you will find the entrance to John Brown Canyon. You will also find a $500 dollar a day all inclusive resort owned by the founder of the Discovery Channel right at the entrance to JBC….. Hmm.

    I discovered JBC on my way home.. I’ll be back!

    Happy Hunting!

    • Jeff-
      Look in “Other’s Adventures” on this blog and you will find a story about searching in Uraven that might interest you.