Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Two



Please click on the comment balloon below to contribute to the discussion of  Forrest Fenn’s Treasure Hunt. Please note that many topics have their own pages. Please scroll through the blog to see all the discussion pages. There are also stories, scrapbooks, searcher’s reports general information, tips from Forrest, a rumors blog and even email responses from Forrest. So please look around and if you want to make a comment please use the most appropriate page.




679 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Two

    • Don’t know where so here’s as good as anyplace. For those who haven’t watched Mr. Fenns video on book collecting WATCH IT. It is excellent!

    • Luckydog-
      Is the 4th in reference to “Florida’s Fantastic Four” LOL been a long time. You still searching? Does the chest relate in any of your solves? I came across something and am heading back out soon but would like to hear other thoughts on the chest. Good luck if you still like CO. Bur

      • That’s what happened to my 1st comment, must have put in the wrong email address and it went to moderation. Oop’s sorry for the double comment. Bur

      • How’s it going Bur? I wish you the best of luck with your up coming search! I’m still around and still researching, but haven’t been able to get back out to CO to search. My solve has not changed in two years. I keep finding things to confirm my spot. I don’t think the FOUR will ever give up, I won’t. I just don’t post as much as I used to. So far, no one else seems to think the way I do, so I don’t worry about it being solved before I can return. It feels good not to be paranoid anymore, that someone else is going to my spot! LOL 🙂
        Yes, I believe the chest does relate to the solve, but I guess I better go over the to new post for that discussion.
        Good luck Bur! Look forward to hearing about your search.

    • Luckydog-
      Is your reference to 4th to the “Florida’s Fantastic Four” been a long time. You still searching Co. Hey does the chest have anything to do with any of your solves. Just trying to see if others consider this. Good luck chasing. Bur

  1. I for one would like to hear more comments on the chest. It has been awhile since it has been discussed. Why did forrest pick that particular chest? – is it a outside the poem clue? Can it hep in the location of the solve? After a lot of research I believe yes, that is why he chose it. Bur

    • I agree Bur. For me it points to a general area of the chest but I still can’t narrow down the place the chest is hidden and I believe you need to do that before going out on a search. Back to the poem and TTOTC and some deep thinking!

      • Bur –

        Yes, I think the chest is a minor hint – and one that should be discussed. Once the right spot is found – you will know why.

        Does it depict a castle to you? That would be another hint.

        It has many ladders – which may be important.

        • CJinCA-
          Yes you might want to check more about the chest itself.

          And for it having many ladders (another word would describe better) to it you are correct. Remember the “history” about it, if you can find how to follow that part (hard to do) then maybe why Forrest chose it will be more clear IMO. Bur

          • Just can’t say it right. One more time -then maybe why Forrest chose it will become clearer IMO. Don’t laugh working and not thinking. Bur

          • You were right. I am having a hard time sleeping at this point. Before posting on this group, I was excited, but now hearing what others are saying I am feeling Feendish. What parts of Colorado are you searching in general on the 17th? Why? Going N, W, E, S? I am not searching in Colorado and don’t plan to unless my spots in Montana don’t pan out, so no worries…

    • Bur, As a late-comer my comments may have been discussed somewhere already, but practically speaking, no small critter is going to dislodge it nor open it because of the hasp. Also, as has been discussed in other places, it is pretty much impervious to the elements. Lastly, again from a practicality standpoint, it had to fit inside a backpack of some kind for a person to carry to or from the hiding spot. Yes, Forrest planned well.

      • Swwot-
        Yes the chest has been discussed before in all aspects, and I agree on your comments for the most part thanks, but there is more to it. IMO- hope I do have to keep adding that – just consider it on all things I write. Bur

      • hi swwot we love your name lol. we carry an assortment of zip bags and roll of paper towels. some items maybe chips, cracked, or other damage while being lugged over a trail. we can take pics and repack it or we can pad the chest with paper towels to keep items from shifting or banging into each other.

  2. Dal, I am new to the chase and think it has been great fun. My question is if someone has found the chest, how quickly will the rest of us be told? Would surplus books have an impact on this. I ask this because a coin dealer in Colorado was asking about if their were new gold coins in the chest, and if so the treasure had been found. This seems credible to me. I can’t remember which blog I read this on, but I will try to find it if you want. It also seems that with so much publicity if it hasn’t been found yet it will be soon. Thanks for your response in advance. I just don’t wish to be hunting if the treasure has been found. I wish I had started earlier, because this whole idea was amazingly brilliant. What a gift Mr. fenn has given all of us.

    • Betsy-
      Forrest has told us that he will announce via the blogs if/when it has been found. Forrest has not announced that it has been found. Go look and have fun.

  3. Thinking like Forrest – maybe?

    Taking a purely speculative stance in this post, as everything that follows is a guessing into how Forrest might have done this whole search for the treasure thing. I know that there is a lot of me in the following narrative, as this is how I would have done it if given the means, and we know Forrest has the means.

    It is no revelation for me to say that the hiding spot is known to only to Forrest, as far as we know. One has to wonder when he found it if he recognized immediately the potential for secrecy of the spot. My first guess is that he did and he told no one. So a supposition that flows from that thought is that I am betting he “kept an eye on it” over the decades to see if anyone else stumbled upon it like he did, so many years ago. (Maybe when he and his buddy were on the rented horses when they took only three Baby Ruths and got lost on their expedition?) At any rate, we don’t know exactly when he found the spot that the treasure is now hidden in.

    Then comes the cancer scare where he loses his one kidney. This is when he starts hatching his plan to hide the loot. Again, because this is what I would have done, I wonder if he took something of value and placed it in the spot and left a note asking that the finder return it for a reward. And then he waited. And waited. And waited. When it was obvious to him that no one in all those years that he knew about the hiding spot had stumbled upon it by accident, or with the teaser stash, he realized that now he had a good spot.

    (Side note) If anyone knows for certain that one or more of the objects listed as being in the chest “disappeared” for up to 10 years before the hunt began, it might be that that item or items was/were the teaser that went unfound in the first run of hiding something in that hiding spot. I’m guessing that Forrest did not bring anything back to the car with him – that he left it all for someone to find.

    So, all this line of thinking boils down to this: nobody is going to “stumble upon” the hiding spot. You’re going to have to go out and look for it. And the poem is necessary for the solve for those of us that do not have a lifetime to wander the Rocky Mountains looking/probing/digging for secret places to stash some loot.

    • swwot,

      There is nothing in the chest related to the hiding spot. Mysterious writing Q&A. so we can skip that one for now. but i do like a test run idea. well maybe She knows, but we don’t.

      The other part of your post is also thought worthy to when? I can only imagine that there was a time period of when he was told of the cancer to the time he acted to have medical intervention, if you will.

      So was the plan started at that time? was the idea of this before laying in the Hospital bed? I would say that is a very good possibility. One thought that also comes to mind is Why wait so long? 1988 or some time before to 2009 or 10, per the information in the book, and publishing. Was the other possible person, two can keep a secret if one is dead… telling us why it was not acted on before? Would knowing any of this actually help?

      My answer to most of those is he took just as much planning to pick what he wanted, to do, to place in the chest, the chest itself, the spot, how to hide it, when to do it as much planning it took to write the poem.

      One thing you can say about the man is he has patience beyond words.

      • I think someone else knew FFs special treasure spot.

        People really can’t keep their mouth shut about something special. I am guessing that FF is no different.

        I don’t think the other person was Skippy. Hen would have died around 1978 at the age of Fifty.

        My guess is that the spot was special to FF and his father who died around 1986.

        The other person could be Donnie.

          • I didn’t find Donnie’s DOD in thrill of the chase.

            You can tell from the book that his father played a very important role in his life. I would bet the location is somehow related to his father.

          • Guesses at to the other person who knew Forrest’s very special place: Forrest’s Dad or an ancient na entombed at the site.

          • Mindy said: “Donnie died a while back. I personally think Eric Sloane was the other person who knew”

            I think you are right, Mindy and I think that Forrest was concerned that Eric’s wife may have also known because Eric may have told her. That’s why I think Forrest waited until she died in Oct 2009 before proceeding with his .

          • anna, I agree the hiding spot was special long before the treasure idea came to life. Very special.

            To me, that means jaw dropping (for Forrest, at least); not unlike the reaction he was aiming for when someone opens the chest.

            And further, for me, that means mind blowing Native American artifacts (which would also indicate to Forrest, “this place has not been seen by human eyes in ages”).

            As for “another person”, I would lean toward Donnie–say, during their “Finding Lewis and Clark” adventure……except……they were lost. HAHAhaha.

          • @joseph – using Ulysses as a “secret guide”, I speculate that the location is where F proposed to Peggy Jean Proctor, or perhaps had a special date there. Has anyone asked him this question “Where did you propose to Peggy?”

      • Seeker, in one of his interviews, F did say it took him a long time to write the poem. And he said, “Indecision is the key to flexibility and that’s why I waited so long to secret my cache.” (on page 131 inTTOTC…for Goofy)

        • we are pretty no one but him knows of this place like he said only one person can keep a secret. as for it being special to him i asked hubby where my favorite birding spot was and he named a couple based on how often i go there or talk about it. he couldn’t name my favorite spot. trying to guess or figure what his spot is we believe almost impossible without input from him and we have that in the form of his poem

  4. Why this chest? In addition to what has been said above, It must have been deemed worthy by f, to hold the treasures he had set aside. What would make it worthy? The history? The depictions? The material? I dunno.

  5. anyone have any thoughts as to the significance of the word “it” as used in the poem?

  6. Thanks Goofy. So I guess when we all figure out that Why is “it” we’ll be on our way. Why, wise, Y’s… eyes too? Trying to eliminate wighel room to give high regard to the layers and points mr Forrest cleverly hid.

  7. Hey all- I’m moving thru CO now, random time off school= road trip with no goals for a week or two just looking at all the stuff I always want to see but didn’t when I was on searches or whatever then thru MT WY and zig zag back to OH so all over. Anyhow I happen to have an extra pass to see Marigreen Pines each of today/tomorrow (near Colorado Springs- ONLY open two days every three year and Mindy couldn’t come so I’m glad to give it to anyone that wants it) Anyhow, if anyone wants it it’s all yours. Today OR 12:45 tomorrow. Skinmittens at AOL Boating in a bit but I’ll check my email as I can. Lemme know!

    CBS News is somewhat certain that the story they shot with Forrest last month will be on tomorrow on CBS Sunday Morning. The producer told me, “Forrest hands out a new clue.”
    It is a “news” show so the story line-up can change and Forrest’s story might be dropped if something more timely needs to air. If so they would reschedule it for a following Sunday.
    The CBS web folks are already promoting the story with a video clip:

    If you need to know when CBS Sunday Morning airs in your town, look here:

    After the show airs it should be available on their web site for awhile.
    and it may be tough getting on the blog right after it airs once viewers start looking for more information.

  9. I had a silly unexplored and outside the box thought when considering “ask a kid”…

    It’s a fact that kids love Disney everything. Coincidentally, Tinker Bell has her own movies with characters named Fawn and Blaze, and even a 2009 movie named “Tinker Bell and the Lost Treasure”. She comes back to life in the official “Peter And Wendy” sequel, “Peter Pan in Scarlet”, and marries Fireflyer, a new fairy.

    A painting of fairies are mentioned in TTOTC. Dal’s shadow appears on the cover of TFTW, a photo requested by f with specific instruction. “Peter Pan in Scarlet” uses the shadow metaphor for not being able to fly, while TTOTC has flying metaphors throughout, including the usage of “fly” and “shadow” in “Ode to Peggy Jean”.

    Did you know there’s a Disneyland Rd in Pavillion, Wyoming? It’s near Teacher Rd. Funny.

    • @E.C. Waters: hey, been searching all of my ‘bookmarks’ but can’t find where I’m sure I recently had seen that yes, Dal took the pic of the river that is on the cover of TFTW but I’m sure I had bookmarked an interview where ff stated he had one of his graphic artist do the shadow and it’s not the trail master DN in the shadow….Dal? anyone? Just trying to help all with keeping the facts clear…lol….IMO, anyways, I can’t find that interview now.

      • Cholly, regarding the shadow: I recall reading that Dal took the photograph of the Madison River at Forrest’s request, then the art director of “Too Far To Walk” overlaid Forrest’s shadow on the river photo.

        I’ve wondered if the shadow, angle, walking stick, river rocks are important in addition to F’s storied description of “his” Madison fishing holes.

    • When I first started researching the poem I thought canyon down meant a waterfall so I researched “gravity falls”…all that comes up is Disney stuff.

  10. I’ve lost my smart phone along with some treasure hunt photos from my latest chase and Amy’s chase a few weeks ago. I’ve also missed out on a weeks worth of comments. I can hardly wait to read what I’ve missed out on. Been researching still and learning more. No date set for another chase yet. All of the recent research only succeeds in getting me more excited. I continue to improve myself and my solve evermore. Thank you, f. Forrest has taught me things I am thankful for. I’d walk a mile in f’s shoes… if they’d fit. Hmmm, I think it’s time for me to shut up 🙂

  11. Oooos, I slipped up. If you’ve been BRAVE and not as I stated above “if you’ve been wise”
    I’ve been unwised

    • I viewed it earlier, cannot right now, but when I did, it appeared the book; the pages weren’t turned far back enough? Or just my bad eyes?

  12. I went down the Eric Sloan Rabbit HOLE. Considereing sloanes’ death in 1985 I do not think he had “committed” to the treasure hunt before his death. Hence, I do not think he is the other one who is referrenced in the two can keep a secret.

  13. Hmm, for the Sunday Morning show having started two hours ago in some places it sure is quiet here. I don’t have TV right now. Out of the country. If any one has been able to to see it,,,,, I am oh so curious…….. I’m sitting here with mouse in the hand, waiting for some better broadband, If the hint comes and I just can’t see, I will have to go away, that’s how it will be.

    • FF said the treasure is not in a mine.

      Dal did a nice job with his part of the episode.

    • The website is slow this morning. I am betting there Is a hundred thousand new people online doing research for the first time.

    • Great interview Forrest! Very happy to cross rattlesnakes and black widows off my solve.

      Fun CBS segments following Forrest on marble championships; and Alan Jackson – another southern Cowboy who writes poetry.

  14. Thank you Sir Bob, So not in a mine. I have nothing to contribute on that score. I looked at some a few months ago but left that train of thought. But if others have info to research, maybe the video link will have something to follow. Thank you again.

    • “what does this make the treasure worth in comparison. ?”

      Personally it would all depend on the longevity of the chase/celebrity status. comparing a classic move with a highly like celebrity is hard to do. Props from movies are highly collectable.

      Even comparing to other treasure hunt stories… oak island etc. is hard to do as well. This Hunt was provided by an individual for the purpose / challenge to find.

      As most other well know treasure hunts have a story of history behind it, and in mot cases, never meant to be found out. Sunken treasures, hidden stolen treasure that were meant to be retrieved later by those who stole it. treasures with a mystery behind them. etc.

      longevity, is the word that is key here.


      • I’m personally a lot less concerned about the value of the chest as much as it being found in Forrest’s lifetime. There is an entire blueprint he has created throughout his writings on how to get to where it is hidden. If it is found within our lifetime but outside of time point where Forrest can provide clarity, there will be endless discussions on exactly what aspects of the books and poem were key to finding that location. Perhaps some of this is revealed in his hidden autobiography? Either way, it would be great to be able to hear Forrest provide that definitive narrative.

  15. Server overloaded. I will post when I have a chance to watch show. Twin 3 year old grandsons watching curios George now

  16. been:: verb

    Past participle of be.

    bin:: noun

    A container or enclosed space for storage.

    :: verb-transitive

    To place or store in a bin.

    bine:: noun

    The flexible twining or climbing stem of certain plants, such as the hop, woodbine, or bindweed

      • Well, it would be too easy to just “been brave”, for my solve anyway, so I looked for an alternative use. I think a vine would stand out in my wood. I like bin/container, as well. I’ve forced so much before, and ran oft like a pup after a squirrel a few too many times. Don’t get me wrong, every time was worth it, and I’ll go back forever, I think…

        Stunning falls, anna. Stunning. 🙂

        • Jdiggins, I’ve never been to Woodbine Falls, so I can’t say, “Remember when” but it sure looks like a fairy tale setting I’d like to visit.

  17. Todays interview was great and I started to wonder how FF would want his to end. I found the following website which list some famous treasure hunts some of which have ended. NOTE the Fenn Treasure is now number one. I offer this for your fennertainment. There could be a contest here to see who has the most creative ending to the chase. Mine would be a book release PR event where FF pens a new book and there is a chapter on how the treasure was found authored by me of course.


    • I completely agree, Mindy. Another excellent presentation, Forrest and Dal…and all. I especially liked hearing Forrest read his poem Masterpiece all the way through. He is much more than a word pro. Which makes me wonder if he actually intends another meaning of the word “mine”…as a noun…in his new hint. For example…IMO…maybe he used that word to counter his friend, Michael McGarrity’s, use of the word “ego”. Of course, I don’t believe Michael used that word in a snide way. Friends can say those things about friends…but maybe, in some way, Forrest was countering any negative accusations about his intentions which might come from others. Just a thought. I don’t know. Thanks again, Forrest!

  18. We are a lucky bunch to be alive and able to be a part of this life changing adventure! Forrest, by all means wins the trophy of thanks, but dal, Goofy and jenny really do an awesome job of corralling the lot of us and keeping us entertained.
    Fellow searchers add to it just as much, it is exciting to read others’ adventures, to see other ideas and thought process. I am honored to be among you, and will always cherish this Era of my life. Thanks to everyone! Kumbaya da da….

    Now, about that treasure chest…

  19. To those who was wondering , I went on my trip last week and came up empty handed. I did not find the chest but just like the 17 trips before that I know where it is not at…..lol…… Planning my next trip towards the end of next week…..wish me luck…….good luck to everyone…….see ya on the trail…… 🙂

  20. Can anyone confirm that Terry Lynch (The Blaze) actually did take photograph of: 1) Black-eyed Susan flowers entitled “The Home of Brown” which won first place in the Yellowstone Park Photography Competition sponsored by Hamilton Stores? and 2) “Where Warm Waters Halt” for the same contest? He doesn’t seem to provide hard evidence.

    • Hi Mindy, aka always keeping it fun. Thanks for the new blog. It’s exactly what I need since I’m not actively reading each blog post anymore. a wrap up is perfect. =)

    • Mindy,
      I like your new blog. Your approach sounds refreshing. I have pretty much limited myself to this blog site due to time limits I place on myself and I have to recall the websites of the other blogs and my memory is not so good after an incident in 2008. So I am glad a link is provided on this site.

    • Mindy – nice blog! It’s a great concept and fun to read. I especially enjoyed the selfie with you and Forrest in Yellowstone. That buffalo looks a bit too photoshopped though. You might want to get some pointers from Forrest regarding feathering and such. 🙂

    • Mindy, nice concept of a summary format. Reading your blog is the opposite of “Ain’t Nobody Got Time For That!” – Sweet Brown’s famous saying.

      Nice lead on the Taos Hum. Almost got in the car with my guassmeter (measures magnetic fields) to check it out!

  21. Mindy –

    Great blog – and a great idea for those who cannot follow daily.

    PS – whispering – I can’t wait to hear what you write about all the naysayers at that other blog. 🙂

  22. I have a question for the group. I do have the TTOTC and TFTW but they are at home and I am not. I been away out of the country for a year. That’s the situation, but the question is “What is it that is guiding some to incorporate a monument in the solve?” It seems to be a semi-popular train of thought. Is it a statement in a book or interview? Thanks.

    • Yiga, Forrest has had at least 2 scrapbooks where he talked about Glenna Goodacre, an artist who creates monumental sculptures like the Women’s Vietnam memorial and also designed the Sacagawea dollar coin. Look up scrapbooks 31 and 129 for more info on Glenna. There may be some kind of hint in those scrapbooks – who knows!

  23. Anyone heard from Pirateofgold? Its been too long since I’ve heard (read) his feisty repartee. Yoo hoo POG and Saban, where the heck are you? Hope all is well.

  24. Just a thought.. I have three different locations where I plan to check in Wyoming starting tomorrow…But all of them are rather exposed to the elements. It makes me wonder, if Forrest originally wanted to have his bones lay with the chest wherever it is, wouldn’t it make sense that he wants a place where coyotes and bears can’t just drag them all over God’s green earth? Is there a chance that the location might be a little more set away from easy access from predators?

    • I concur with thought Tiddy, that Forrest would have thought that through and would probably want his remains unmolested. So if he was wanting to curl up next to the treasure chest and expire, how could he do that and not have his remains disturbed for a long time?

      Along those lines, I think Forrest is in a bit of a pickle now, as his treasure hunt has probably exceeded his expectations in popularity, but if the treasure is not found before he dies – how’s he going to lay down next to Indulgance without being followed?

    • I don’t think we can assume what Forrest might be concerned about regarding his remains other than he would have wanted them to “remain” at the location of the chest if he had carried out his original plan and someone (human) found his bones and the chest. My guess is that he would not be too concerned about wildlife messing with his bones–but maybe that’s projecting my own views too much. I know I would rather be placed out in the wild for critters to help me decompose than sit in an airtight casket and vault where anaerobic bacteria turns flesh to gel. Hey, we will all be food to something. Even cremated remains break down and nourishes life.

      • Very descriptive analogy and thought process Raven. lol
        which I agree with

        I have always found this discussion of what if or where about the leave my bones, interesting in a comical way. But that is my slightly warp sense of humor at work again.

        I wonder how some searchers would react if, far down the life’s path f travels that last stretch of the trail and ends up in a cemetery.

        I may not be around to see those reactions, as Fenn may just out live me. But what then? What will be the talk of the town in that scenario. I personally just skip the thought of what ifs… i was never very good with reverse engineering anyways. I always had a few screws loose, i mean left-over.

        • Seeker-
          It’s my impression that Forrest has given up trying to control his death. I remember a conversation he had with a searcher about whether or not he still intended to end his life in that same place and he replied that he no longer knew the outcome because he might get hit by a bus in downtown Santa Fe.

          In other words, he can’t predict his death and final resting place anymore. He was no longer in control as he once was when his ambition was to take control of his death to avoid letting cancer ravage his body.

          None of us are, except those who make better plans than I have. I remember a dear friend who’s life was ended suddenly in combat. This guy was a planner. In his early twenties he had purchased four cemetery plots in his hometown for him, his wife and the two children they intended to have.

          But when his body was shipped home his wife had a change of heart. In the intervening year since they purchased the plots she had become a “green” advocate. She had him cremated and had his ashes mixed into pavers that she used in her new patio. She sold the cemetery plots and used the money for a vacation to Puerto Rico where she met her new husband to be. She sold the house when she returned home from vacation and moved away to live with her new boyfriend.

          I went over to their place after she sold it and swiped two of those pavers. I buried them under a tree in that cemetery where his plots used to be.

          Making plans like Forrest’s..to end your own life, in your own way, out of everyone else’s control is the only way to guarantee how you’ll end up. If you don’t do that…there simply is no guarantee…I think Forrest knows that and fully expects that he will end up in a vault somewhere because he is no longer in control, any more than the rest of us.

          • @dal, what an awful story! Reminds me of my ex. Bleh! Good for you for moving a portion of his remains to where he wanted to be.

          • I’m leaving my body to science. I figure that would be my last best joke I can pull on someone. Only wish I could be there when the say… What the heck kept this guy upright?

          • Make sure you specify what you mean when leaving your body to science. Many donated bodies end up as teaching cadavers for human anatomy. Most bodies have little novel scientific value due to rapid changes that occur in tissues early following death. One of the best ways to control your body’s fate and continue to influence the future following ones passing, in a manner similar to forging and burying bronze bells, is to be an organ donor. Up to 50 individual lives can be improved through a single act of organ donation.

          • Dal,your efforts to fulfill your friends wishes is very touching. I hope it gave you some peace.

          • Check with your local medical school before donating your body. They have to be within certain guidelines for height, weight, ages ect.. They turn away far more bodies than they ever use.

            Donating organs is a much better option. 🙂

            SPECIAL !

          • That is a sad story, Dal. I’m glad that ultimately you were able to fulfill your friend’s wishes. That’s what friends do…after all.

            I reckon if I was to donate my body for anatomy students to study I’d start embalming my body long before I pass on…with gin. I’d also get a tattoo on a distal appendage…just to get a blush or a smile from a homely girl…long after I’m gone. 🙂

  25. Greetings gang,

    I hope I’m wrong, but if I was a betting man, my money would be on saying that the treasure will be found before I get a chance to prove my solve.

    I got together with my younger son this past weekend, who will be a senior in college this coming year, and we went over some things and the plausibility of my solve being correct. He’s definitely all in, but life being what it is, we won’t get a chance to go looking for about a year. So, you all need to stop looking now so that I have at least one shot at finding it – ha!

    I am still enjoying the comments and shared adventures here and try to check in every couple of days or so – and of course, look at the comments and replies that I am subscribed to get via e-mail.

    Seriously, good luck to all!


      • True story… any sense of urgency is just wasted energy. This is supposed to be a fun journey w/memories to last a lifetime. I will try to make another trip in the late fall and unlike previous times feel no sense that I must rush into it.

      • I felt the same way in
        March of 2013,
        June of 2013,
        August of 2013,
        October of 2013,
        February of 2014,
        March of 2014,
        May of 2014,
        August of 2014,
        September of 2014,
        November of 2014,
        February of 2015
        June of 2015

  26. I am firmly in the “plain language” camp. BUT, I realize that not everyone is. So for the enjoyment of the “over-analyze” camp, and to keep you as distracted as possible (big grin), let me offer up this rabbit hole up to all.

    Begin with the double omega in the credits section at the end of TTOTC.

    Now mix in a bit of cowboy, and a healthy dose of Masonic Lodge….there is in Wyoming, not far from the Joe Brown boat ramp, the oldest dude ranch around. the O.T.O. ranch (see the Omega angle?). It was the original “dude ranch”. OTO stands for Ordo Templi Orientis, Order of the Oriental Templar. Founded in 1912 by Jim Randall (who was into the, dare I say rather kinky sounding, OTO), it offered the wealthy of the roaring ’20’s a taste of roughing it, sort of. By 1939, I guess the Great Depression winnowed down the pool of available rich people, and OTO closed.

    It was run as a ranch for decades, and is now part of the USFS Gallatin National Forest, and a historic site. The buildings are still closed for renovation…..but I think the grounds are still game (not positive).

    Ready, set, over-analyze!

      • Or, an even simpler approach….the double omega is a colophon, just like the one in the other books published by FF.

        • Strange however that FF said he simply would not comment on the double omegas or rather would keep that to himself…Seems it does have some significance for him and therefore to me…

          And I must admit that with the solution I have(imperfect at best) it has relevance not only once but twice…In the poem itself and historically…

          I think the two omegas are more than just a colophon…

          My best guess…A hint…


          • I suspect that all colophons or other emblematic marks have meaning or significance to their originators. The Borzoi used by Knopf and the horn player riding a dolphin used by Houghton surely aren’t just random marks. They mean something to someone just as the omegas seem to have some special meaning to Forrest Fenn. The question is whether they give us a hint or are otherwise helpful in solving the poem. Since they were used in other earlier books he published I doubt they are really important to finding the chest although it would be interesting to know why he chose that mark and why he is reluctant to tell us its meaning. But then, all of us are entitled to some secrets, aren’t we?

          • @raven, your references to earlier books as an assertion of insignificance should probably be viewed with some caution. F has been working this idea since at least 1988. I’d even go so far to hypothesize that some form of this idea has been ruminating since his childhood, or perhaps even before with his father. Fishing does give a person quite a bit of time to think.

          • Not knowing when FF started using the double omegas, the following is only a hunch, imo. What if it is an allusion to his being shot down twice and thinking about coming to the end of his life twice? Omeaga is often thought of as the “end of things” – perhaps two ends of things? Lastly, I would be surprised if they were directly related to a solve of the puzzle, as FF stands by his statement that “all you need is the poem”.

        • If it’s so simple then why include it at all 🙂 ?IMO. And I’m sure he’s been planning this a few years longer than several of his books.

      • Forrest the double omegas in a scrapbook about DG adventure, no where in her story was mentioned about the Masons or the order of the temple or something like that IMO

        The omegas seems to have a simplistic meaning but I have no clue what it is 🙂

        • I was throwing out a playful canard, or so I thought. I must restrain myself.

          DG adventure?

          • Go through the Scrapbooks and look for John Wayne the rooster, at the end of the scrapbook Forrest put double omegas

          • @William – Scrapbook 50, IMO, is an allusion to one of the clues in the poem. I’ll say which one it is IMO in the coming weeks.

            Also in my opinion, I believe there are at least a couple of meanings to the ΩΩ. One of the references (I believe) is pulled from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, the first scene with River Phoenix when he busts in on his father who then makes him count to 20… in Greek. Given the father/son relationship F describes, I believe these symbols reference the roughly 1,600 miles from Temple, TX to W Yellowstone, MT (assuming a route through Cody as mentioned in TTOTC). There is one other meaning that I believe which also references what I’ve been suggesting to be a mental model for the book. Again, I’ll explain more in the coming weeks.


        • Scrapbook 50, the one that the car picture of a ford galaxy became a pick up truck? Wouldnt bet the farm on scrapbooks.

  27. CB88. I was baffled by the odd occasional reference to the Omegas. They are on the last page of The Thrill of the Chase; below them is the word COLOPHON. Then a line and an odd assortment of production credits.

    I can see how that seems like a huge clue of some sort, but I (newbie also) see few references to it. I think they have a secret OMEGA club. 😉 Hey! I might be onto something and they let me in !

    • Ha, thanks Joseph. I’ve been in the chase for quite awhile (not that seniority means anything) and am well aware of the fabled Double Omegas. I know that many people have the opinion that they are an integral part of the poem solve. I don’t believe so. To each their own though.

      • fabled? OK, busted, I’m mew.

        what’s the most popular, or rather, credible “omega” idea?

        I’m in the “plain, if vague” language camp with regard to the poem. But the O’s are intriguing.


      • I am of the belief that the double omegas are an integral part of the chase. My solve has several omegas. Some at the beginning and some at the end. Now keep in mind, as with many interpretations within the poem and TTOTC (IMO), there is more than one way to interpret the double omegas. Research, research, research! My solve is complete minus finding the chest, but I feel like I know where to look. I have been holding back due to forces beyond my control. I am in no rush. IMO, the chest isn’t going anywhere too fast. Everything I can think of fits in my solve and now my patience is in the driver’s seat. I will sit on my hands until I am ready to take the wheel. If my solve is correct, f is definitely a wild man! Omegas are connected to the chase. All I have said is IMO.

    • COLOPHON or “CALL OF FUN”. There you have it, a completely sane answer for those who don’t want to venture out of the box!

  28. Or those who don’t want to venture down the hole, or those that just like to have fun, and of course this is all IME. Or “In My Exaggerated” opinion.

  29. Double Omegas are akin those Stout Hearted Men chapter of TTOTC.

    Anyone remember the story of Forrest meeting Eric Sloane in an arrangement at a high end NY dinner party with many famous people?

  30. just for fun…..
    For electricity, omega stands for resistance. It can also mean “the end”.

    Resist death !

      • I Don’t believe the Ohmega value has been mentioned. The symbol for ohm is also the omega. Ohm being the measured value of resistance. It hertz to think about this because I just retired from these things⚡️

      • Key. Chi is a homonym of key and is the letter X in Greek and is a noun (word?) and also has the following definition:

        “the vital life force in the body supposedly regulated by acupuncture.”

        For what it may be worth.

    • Elephant Loop Trail, One I have thought about many times. Hiking alone is a no no, unless you have protection.

  31. Preface; an introduction to a book, typically stating its subject, scope, or aims.

    synonyms: precede, introduce, begin, open, start … Just to name a few.

    We have been told : the poem, the book for reference, GE and/or a good map. Is what provides us all with the same opportunity to solve the poem and locate the hidden trove.

    In the preface, we are told …” the fact that one of my natural instincts is to embellish just a little.”
    “Please overlook my penchant for provocation…”
    ” …all of us are environmentalist to some degree, and me more than most.”
    “My church is the is in the mountains and along the river bottoms where dreams and fantasies alike go to play.”
    ” I tend to use some words that aren’t in the dictionary, and the others that are, I bend a little.”
    “this book is my ninth in twenty-six years of casual recounting the things i enjoy most”

    These are some excerpt from the preface of TTOTC. I place these here just as examples of what catches my eye. Does this Beginning, Opening, starter, help us understand the poem? Are there hints in the start of the book that can explain what we the readers should look for within the poem? Is the sentences prior to the poem, in premise, the same as a preface?

    Over the years I have read many post of what some believe to be hints within the book, but most are very specific in nature. That has always raised a red flag for me, as to understand what information in the book is hint-able. And what it is we should see… ” if you know what to look for.” Are subtle hints within the book even noticeable before understanding the poem? or just confirmation after having a good idea of what the poem’s is intended to tell us?

      • We can EC, I enjoy the freedom of a more private conversation… and I will send you an e-mail to do just that. But I was hoping for what or how we the readers precede if a subtle hint is seen, understood etc. before understanding the poem or after as confirmation.

        At least that was my main objective.

        • I believe the book’s hints and objectives are twofold, but from a seeker’s perspective, primarily to lead the reader to the treasure. In my opinion, a seeker would precede by validating assertions as best as possible, prepare for a trip (depending on point of origination), and then proceed to the location.

          Please do reach out to me at your earliest convenience.

          • I got it… I paste the period at the end of the email as well. It’s early on a Sunday morning and I only had one cup of cawfee.

        • the e-mail you sated above says unrecognizable, did you leave something out… all i did was cut and paste.

      • You could have just Halted at, ” Seeker, you are wise”

        Yes I believe that quote is important, to suggest on how to read the poem.

      • 23K – my favourite quote in particular – Will be to arrive where we started And know the place for the first time. Many know why I believe that and that is what makes the solution so cool.

  32. Hi All, I did not find the treasure. But everything seemed to fit so well. Maybe I just walked past it.

    Speaking of fitting, I built a box the size of Fenn’s treasure box, so I would recognize the box by size. Once I did that, I think Forrest looked for a box that size because it fit in my back pack so well.

    Anyway, I wondered why Forrest would be so specific that he hid the treasure 8.25 miles or more, north of Santa Fe. Why not just say 5 or 10 miles…but exactly 8.25 miles? So I looked horizontally on the map 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe.

    I did find a place formed by an extinct volcano, Valles Caldera National Preserve in New Mexico, just like Yellowstone National Park was formed, and it had great fly fishing there, archaeological caves, obsidian deposits where Indians used to make arrow heads, too. The park entrance has pictures of some of the caves and a small collection of Indian arrow heads on display that were found on the Preserve. Now THIS was a place WORTHY of the Fenn treasure.

    Also, I read that ancient New Mexico Indians somehow knew that lava was a liquid, so I looked at the Valles Caldera Preserve in New Mexico on Google Earth. I followed down where the lava stopped flowing (WWWH), down Sulfur Canyon. AND RIGHT THERE ON GOOGLE EARTH, it listed Ron Brown Realty. I found out later that Mr. Brown really lives there, too (HOB).

    In fact, you can simply enter “Brown NM” on Google Earth, and in the long list of search results, it also lists Ron Brown Realty (page 4).

    On Google earth, there were a couple of places to “put in” about a block or two south (and downhill) from Ron Brown Realty, and both places had roads with parallel creeks. (There’ll be no paddle up your creek) One was Sulfur Creek, but that was too developed to be special to Forrest. The other creek was Redondo Creek, that flowed right through the Preserve. Both creeks pass under Hwy 4, and I searched Sulphur creek for a bit, and as expected, nothing was found.

    Ah, but the other creek to “put in” was Redondo Creek Road which follows Redondo Creek. The road is only a few blocks long until it runs into the Preserve entrance, and is renamed to VC02. Trucks go in and out of the Preserve on this back entrance (heavy loads). There is a gate there to keep everyone out, so the trucks have to unlock and re-lock the gate whenever they pass through it. Redondo Creek is always cold because it flows from the high Redondo Mountain creeks (Your effort will be worth the cold…you probably will have to stand in the creek to get the treasure…also “water high”).

    I went to the front entrance of the Preserve for a hiking pass. They said folks could not hike back in that back entrance area any more. They also said that Redondo Mountain was restricted anyway from 10,200 feet and above, as the Indians considered that part sacred. Hmmmm….seems when Forrest was asked how high he hid the treasure, Dal’s Cheat Sheet said exactly below 10,200 feet….once again and exact number…once again the preserve looked worthy.

    So since I could not go back there officially, I elected to go there before the trucks started going through the back entrance. I got up early the next day, 4am, and drove up the mountains from Los Alamos. By 5am, I was there and the dawn was starting. Maybe this is why Forrest said take a flashlight, who knows.

    Anyway, I parked between mile markers 27 an 28 on Hwy 4, and followed Redondo Creek Road to the Preserve gate. The gate is easy to go through at the bottom. I can guarantee you that evading detection from the trucks is “no place for the meek”, as I was scared my whole day of searching (even though it is a national preserve because of what the front entrance folks told me).

    A few yards from the gate, there is an old shelter with a broken built in heater. Maybe a blaze….but doubtful. Anyway, I looked down the little hill from it to where the creek was flowing, because we all know now the treasure is wet. There was a huge log going from that bank to the water. It would have been a good place. But after tearing at the log for a long time, I didn’t find anything.

    So I went further in, but not on the service road, but a little in the woods, on the other side of the creek from the service road. The reason was that it was way to easy to be seen if I were on the road. (If you are brave..being on the preserve….and in the wood…having cover from detection)

    This was a good thing too, because I did find a trail blaze going that way, that you can’t see from the road. The trail blaze said this was Duke Trail, an equestrian trail, not a human trail. And it was closed anyway. So I looked from the trail marker back to the creek, which was downhill, but everything was so over grown I just couldn’t find any treasure. (I wish I had a metal detector) I walked further, and saw yet another little old sign saying Duke Trail, but couldn’t find anything near the creek from that either.

    There were two little waterfalls in the creek that I passed by, too. Both about 2 feet high. I prodded with my walking stick. But didn’t feel anything like a chest.

    By then, I just couldn’t see how Forrest could have walked any further, twice, in one day. Certainly, he could not have walked up the Redondo mountain. I couldn’t have even done that once in a day. Only Superman could have done that twice in a day.

    If I did find it, I certainly could see very well why Forrest would say “But tarry scant with marvel gaze” if you were trying to avoid being detected by the trucks on the Preserve service road.

    If anyone tries this, to see if I missed some blaze somewhere, the trail blazes I found were both behind some round wooden posts holding up fences…located about 6 to 9 blocks from the back gate. That is why you can’t see them from the VC02 Service Road.

    If I just knew more about what kind of “blaze” to look for, I bet I could have found it…ha!

    The timing for going to the Preserve from Santa Fe (2 hours each way), hiking a mile into the Preserve twice, going slow to avoid detection(4 to 5 hours total), is pretty close to a day trip for Forrest, in my opinion.

    Hope this helps someone.

    • @MikeBarnhouse, lots to respond to here, so I’ll just pick one of importance.

      Fenn did not say 8.25 miles. He said 66,000 links. 66,000 is a hint and is a number that is relevant to the mental model. Others have extrapolated 66,000 links into the surveying measurement system that then calculates to ~8.25 miles. While, yes, the treasure is more than 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe, the seeker should not focus on 8.25, but instead on the number 66,000.


  33. Drat, I forgot to mention that the Preserve back gate is 7844 ft in elevation, and that I didn’t ever go above 8200 ft in elevation. I never tried going up Redondo Peak, I couldn’t even make it to that mountain, much less try to climb it up to the 10,200ft or the 11,254ft elevation…sheesh.

  34. WAY OT. I noticed the avatar I got automatically assigned here is identical to the avatar I was automatically assigned over at Capt. Pappy’s on-again maybe site (THE Thrill of the Chase).

    Are these icons “assigned” on the basis of your input “name”? is this just a coincidence? OR does it mean that a bronze box lie in my future?

    • My bad. “THE Thrill of the Chase” is Mike’s site. Captpappy is a wordpress site. Sorry.

  35. I have gold coin (double eagle) and I am very tempted to hide it.

    To learn about crafting a search…perhaps some insight to be gleaned.

  36. OFF TOPIC: Requesting prayers for my 20 year old daughter, Aidan. She’s in the ER with what is likely appendicitis. I’m heading there now…

  37. Thank you, everyone! Aidan is ok…not appendicitis and thankfully not pregnant, either! Whew! Just a nasty virus going around….

    • That is very good news Mindy.
      BTW, Thank you for the very kind and positive words about me and my book, Finding Forrest Fenn on your Hotspot blog!

      I have been reading your Hotspot blog for a while and I really think you are on to something with this kind of blog. I will be busy over the next two years and I do not have time to read everything on all the blogs. Your blog gives an impartial summary hitting on all the highlights over the past week and is very informative. It will likely be all I have time to read in the months to come. It would be nice if your blog was picked up by a newspaper as a weekly column.

      Thank you for purchasing “Finding Forrest Fenn” and supporting cancer research, you are making a big difference. Enjoy!

      • Wolf. I have searched for treasure in your area before I found out about the thrill of the chase. It is beautiful country. Mesmerizing to think there may be a wealth of treasure there. I think I will go again just to see if I can find one or two treasures there we missed.I love the history of Colorado’s majestic back country . There are many places here that fit the riches new and old scenario. It was a great read. I love your wake up twist on your storytelling. Good stuff TY JB

    • hi mindy i am trying to catch up on blog just read about your kido. Whew its never funny when your child is ill praise God she is ok glad to here it

      • Hi Marie! Thanks for reading. My daughter is doing better, but still has off and on pain, so she’s going to see another doctor this week. I think she needs an ultrasound or CT, so I’m hoping this doctor will order one.

        • mindy we will keep her in our prayers. one of our grandsons got real sick and was sent to hospital. it was at the beginning of the ice cream recall. if she has eatten any ice cream that could of been in ice boxes for a while have them check that.

  38. Goofy,
    Could we get a direct link to the Media Coverage page on the right hand side bar? Maybe under the heading of Important Information. I always have trouble finding it.

      • Dal, I think he means that it would be easier to find if it were not included in the long list of “Most important Information” but rather, because it’s such an important resource, was an additional bullet point on the right under “IMPORTANT INFORMATION”. I tend to agree with that myself. 🙂

        • yes…two clicks are always so much more difficult than one click…
          You guys are a tad on the needy…or possibly lazy side..
          Hey Goof…these guys don’t appreciate our organizational style…
          I wonder what we could do about that??

          • We’ve tried to maintain the “two click rule” of web design. Any page on the site can be accessed in two clicks. I think we’ve managed to do that for the most part. There might be a few “three clickers” but I don’t remember any.

            I think anyone that can’t be troubled with searching this site for important information when it’s labeled “Important Information” probably has a snowball’s chance of finding a ten inch box in the Rockies……but you know how I am.

          • Aw common guys. The web site is great and you both have done a terrific job of organizing all the info. And of course 2 clicks isn’t a lot but the Media area is probably the most frequently talked about and referenced link here and it just would be nice to actually see the link on the right. But we lazy folks can live with it the way it is. 🙂

          • Make it so they have to make a extra click to find what they are looking for.

            If You want it You must make one more click -+= and your there. Where is it they were going in the first place?

            Oh yea I forgot, there is a mass of information to travel through but Ill remember someday I will for sure.

            Or you could start a organizational skills page and let them learn from your methods. Hmm to much work.

            Id guess better just to let them hash it out themselves. Have a great day Dal

          • Clicker treat I know when I’m beat. How come the second time around always leads to the lucky charm. Just thought I would chime in.This is more important than the do not remove tag on a bed mattress.

        • Thanks CJinCA….That’s exactly what I meant. Sorry to rock the boat Dal and Goof, but it is something I suspect people look for frequently and it is easy to overlook in the list, and if you forget which major topic it’s under (yeah i’m old and forgetful) then you end up looking through multiple lists. No worries, I’ll live with it.

          • Yo Colo,

            Ya could do what I do.

            Type “media” in the Search Box…..lo and behold, guess what the first result shows??? 🙂

            LOL!! I’m old and forgetful also!!

            Dal, thanks again for hosting and Goof for trying to keep all the ducks in a row!! 🙂

            Good Luck to All!!

            (ok, back to the Pond…….loco) 🙂

      • since we are on the subject of making it easier why don’t you get FF to re-writer the poem with just ONE easy clue, then this whole search thing be solved.

        • HAHA.
          Begin it at 44 07′ 54″N -110 03′ 46″W between the owl eyes. It’s just layin’ there, pick it up. Call me.

          Oops, that doesn’t rhyme.

  39. Dal or anyone – I seem to remember Forrest writing somewhere that a song he sings quite often is “My Blue Heaven”. But I cannot remember where I read that. Can anyone tell me? I thought maybe it was at Mysterious Writings. I just can’t find it.

  40. Mysterious Writings, Jenny Kile’s site, isn’t closed down. There is a link at the bottom of this page and it worked when I clicked on it.

  41. @WiseOne – That’s it! That’s it!!! Thank you so very much. Scrapbook 98 … I’d never have thought to look there. That’s exactly what I’ve been searching for. Thanks again.

    • YW Becky. 🙂 Happy to help. That certainly was a fun SB.
      WV is a long way from the Rockies… How many searches have you been on?… If you don’t mind my asking.

  42. @WiseOne – I’ve been west two times to the same area. Much more excitement & newsworthy predicaments traveling there than actually searching. I don’t like making the trip alone, I have no sense of direction, & I don’t like the western environment so I’ve decided that until I can “go right to the treasure chest” by figuring out the location before I ever leave home, I’m staying here where I belong. How about you, WiseOne? Where do you live?

    • Same here. Made two trips, alone, from MO. I enjoy driving but it would be nice to have someone to talk to and do things with once you get there. And I agree with you about figuring out the exact location first. It is possible, IMO, but that’s the hardest part… figuring it out. 🙂

  43. Unforunately I made a comment that there was no treasure due to river being polluted and in my air row head way should not of said that, as i forgot we have kids participating so for that I’m sorry and imho the chest is still out there so please forgive me for that and I will do what i can to help and serve others in their quest. sincerely Dave

  44. IMHO – speculating at best – I am wondering if there has been a development concerning this chase for Indulgence. I say this because of the way the “whole Today Show announcement” has been handled. We first heard that the Today Show would be in NM tomorrow, and now it is next Tuesday. Regretfully, my gut tells me the chase is over and this will be Forrest telling everyone that his chest has been found. And the delay has been due to legalities that needed tidying up.

    I hope I am wrong.

    Being that I am a long way away from my solve, both physically because of distance and calendarly because I had no time to join the chase until next year at the earliest, I am/will not be too heartbroken if that is the kind of announcement that is made as others might be, because of how much time and effort they have invested.

    If it is not that kind of announcement, then I do hope that Forrest does not “narrow the field” any more than he already has to make it easier for folks to find his treasure chest. If it is not found before the snow flies this year, then there is hope for me when I finally get a chance to go further West and take a look around.

    I am pretty certain that no “armchair searcher” is going to solve the clues/riddles in the poem without putting “boots on the ground” and geting a look at the terrain. The best we can do from afar is make educated guesses as to where to begin the hunt and then verify that hunch by taking the time to get out there and start looking. Once a person is in “the groove” they’ll know it and as Forrest has mentioned, walk right up to Indulgance to then carry it off.

    • swwot, my guess is that Forrest won’t be announcing that the chest has been found. I think he would give that info out on his own through the blogs or give the scoop to a reporter like Margie Goldsmith or someone closer to home. Also, NBC wouldn’t be dragging their feet if they thought they had such a big story on their hands.That’s my take on it anyway.

      If its another clue, I don’t think that it necessarily follows that the chest will be “easier” to find. I think it is fair to say that the last few years haven’t “narrowed” the field much. It seems that the masses of complex solutions, interpretations, esoteric fact finding, logical and not so logical sequencing of information and boots on the ground has not made it any easier or “closer” for the novice or the pros. We will know soon enough!

      • I would add that in my opinion, no area can be irrefutably and absolutely ruled out even after all of the searches that have been reported and suggested EXCEPT for the Shrine in Colorado that the one gal is still peddling as the solution to the poem. How could that possibly be the spot when FF said he hadn’t heard of the place until after he hid the chest?

        • Raven,

          I believe the “gal” you are saying is “peddling” her solve would be me. Normally, I would take a bit of offense to being called a peddler, but I don’t due to the lack of your knowledge of the meaning of the word. You see Raven, a Peddler is a traveling vendor of goods. A person who travels by foot selling goods to small towns and villages. I am not “selling” anything. In fact, I have contributed 100% of my own time and money offering valuable information to serious searchers. Also, you may want to go back and THINK about what Forrest said regarding The Christ of The Mines Shrine.



          • lol – oof. I imagine someones gonads are now hurting. I’ve been doubled over in pain quite a few times up in here.

          • My opinion of you is that you’re essentially a slanderer. Forrest has said the treasure isn’t there, you continue to declare that your solution is correct, ipso facto calling Forrest a liar.

          • Hmm. So, not defending arrogance because I’m full of that. Slander is spoken and witnessed leading to monetary or other tangible loss (like reputation of Subway w Jared, or a divorce from a rumor per se). Did you mean libel? Also requires a tangible loss, in this case to F. Nice Latin tho.

          • Hi seabee88,

            “Slanderer?” Your joking right??
            I hold Forrest Fenn in the highest regard. You clearly have chosen to glaze over the meat and potatoes of my sight which is singing the praises of Mr. Fenn. I must have lost you somewhere between my heartfelt letter thanking Forrest, and my poem “Angels In Evergreens” written for him.
            No hard feelings. We all have off days. Sounds like you are in need of a good dictionary, (Raven has one) and a good night sleep.


          • Pam, words are fascinating because they often have many meanings. Your definition of peddler is definitely one often used. However, even after your scolding, I stand by my use of peddling as well. I use Webster’s Third New International Dictionary of the English Language Unabridged that defines “peddle” in part as: ” to deal out or seek to disseminate ideas or opinions”. The dictionary then sets forth the following example that is surprisingly appropriate in the context of our exchange: “peddling secondhand truths and undigested truisms to popular audiences–William Phillips b.1907”.

          • Hmmm Raven I also saw the definition as “Derogatory.” No harm done. Maybe Seabee88 can borrow your dictionary to look up the word “slanderer.” Poor thing is all confused.

      • I’ve not seen anything official. Just read speculation. I’m in Santa Fe and don’t have time to go search my spot(s). Whatever I do I need a nap first.

        Something tells me we’re collectively missing something important. I can’t figure what it is, but as this thing comes down to the wire it will be interesting if the final solve is published.

    • “IMHO – speculating at best”…. “Regretfully, my gut tells me the chase is over and this will be Forrest telling everyone that his chest has been found. And the delay has been due to legalities that needed tidying up.”

      swwot, or maybe it’s just gas…

      Delays like this have happen every time a report come out. Even if so, why worry? I’ll still need to pay my taxes tomorrow if the chest is found or not.

    • Who knows maybe its about the new book coming out!
      that is on the old Sante Fe trading blog! maybe they want to cover it and its release.

  45. So much speculation! I will be waiting to see what Forrest has to say. We all should have some patience, right? 🙂

  46. As I read through the blogs and re-read the books and study the poem, my old mind wonders to some strange thoughts. Does anyone know when FF first posted the 500 ft mark? If everyone who had sent their solves to FF before that comment could put all the solves together in one group, we could narrow down the search to several “500 ft” areas. Areas the had not been reported to him could be eliminated. LOL Its a crazy thought. Maybe Dal could make a link for “Early Reported Solves”

    • @C.O.O.S. the issue is there are thousands and thousands of searchers, way more than just show up here or have posted here since ’11, ’12 and ’13…..the ones that had been close and didn’t know it still don’t even know it! Sorry for posting so much today, slow day at the office! lol!

    • Searcher –

      I think the first time it was reported – was by Margie Goldsmith in the Untied Hemispheres Mag. That was published Jan, 1 2013.
      I could be wrong – so if someone else knows for sure……..chime in.

      Most people who report their solves – have given up on the spot after searching – so I don’t think your plan (which you could do straight from this blog) would work. Searchers who have a good and viable solve – are not reporting it.

      I love new ideas – keep em coming.

  47. There are a lot of flaws, that why I said it was a crazy thought. In the 2013 M Dickens bookstore interview he said some (2 maybe) had gotten the first two clues right but passed by the other 7. True they don’t know who they are (FF said she would probably faint if she knew). Chances are that they may not even be posting on this blog. I went through a few months ago and started compiling a list of post ID’s, the list was around 500 when I stopped, although I sure that I missed quite few early searchers as well as the new ones. If 500 posted there are probably thousands who read and do not post. Crazy idea but we have to start thinking outside the box.

  48. The following is my opinion.

    The people who have solved the first two clues know it, they just didn’t recognize the other seven clues when they passed by them, and don’t know how close they’ve been to the chest. If the first two clues have enough info to put one in the general location, I think they also give the searcher enough confidence to stay on track. I imagine the people who have solved the first two keep going back to the same place.

    Early on, I was really close to publishing my (very difficult) solution. I could probably monetize from it like those who have published e-books and youtube videos. But now I realize there are numerous others who have a very similar (if not the same) solve, who have put in the same blood, sweat, and tears as I have. How would I feel if one of those people gave up on the chase and gave away their hard work, which is also my hard work, to just anyone and everyone? It would make me sad and frustrated.

    I think there’s a good 50/50 chance the chest has been found, but I’m not giving up and I’ll keep going back until this is established. So if any of you with a working solution feel like giving up, please, pretty please, keep it to yourself 🙂 Not just for me, but for everyone headed in the same direction.

    Also, just off the top of my head and without rewatching the Taos Q&A, I think someone asked FF, “who has been closer to the chest, Dal or (some woman, whose name I don’t recall)?” FF’s answer was “if they knew they’d probably faint.”

    Keep on keeping on guys! Good luck and stay safe.

      • E.C. Waters –

        I apologize. My comments aren’t personally directed at you or anyone else who’s published their solution. I think it takes a lot to come back here and say “I was wrong, here’s what I know, or thought I knew….” It really does.

        It’s not even directed at the people who are somehow profiting from unproven solutions. To each their own.

        I disagree on the sharing is caring part, however. NOT SHARING is caring about the people who’ve done the work. Let them have it, they earned it.

        That’s just my personal take on it.

    • Sorry, one more thought on that. Still my opinion.

      If a person with the winning solve were to publish it, and it was convincing enough to send searchers scrambling, the first person with the time and money to up and leave would find the chest. It would become a race among the highest bidders.

      Not only that, but it would effectively ruin the thrill of the chase, the very element that inspired FF in the first place. It would rob the very man who brought us this quest of his very simple and selfless goal.

      If I ever do give up, I’m taking my secrets with me.

          • Yup. The part where the people in the streets grab it? Or the part where Culpepper loses everything in his life that he cared about? I’m ready for the chase to be done so that I don’t have to keep reading about Culpeppers since that’s all the media reports related o searchers (Dal interviews notwithstanding).

            Btw, Aloysius is name of significance. 😉

      • I believe Forrest thought of that scenario. I do not think the chase is set up that way – as you must solve every clue to be the one to find it and then one must know what to do with those clues. I’ve said many times there is a ground game to be played and that is fun. It’s easy but difficult at the same time. Is that possible? I think so. Ahw heck what do I know – I don’t have the treasure.

        • I agree, into. And, the ground game is the best part! (Even though sometimes hindsight brings that revelation.) 🙂

    • Close is irrevalent. It’s a term that must be used in context. Think about his answer. Being close still leaves a big gap in IQ points. OK maybe your gap is a little narrower. But I feel comfortable with a little distance. IMO.

    • Lois, while you’re sitting there wringing your hands consumed by paranoia consider this. If someone posted your solution you might see how wrong it is and that would save you all the time and money searching the rabbit hole you’re in.

      If your solution is that good you may make enough money that you don’t need to look for the chest if you published it. You are probably correct, since there is no single instance of genius, someone else probably has the same solution as yours.

      Lots and lots of folks have the same great idea, but only a few carry it through and capitalize on their ideas. I doubt they care about all the sad and frustrated folks like you that didn’t follow through on the idea.

      If you don’t want to share that’s fine, but don’t try to stop those that do.

      • Might not have a dalneitzel.com (well, not for this purpose) if not for those of us who blab.

        I’m reminded of something H. L. Mencken said… Or was it John Dos Passos… Ok. Not really. Just dropping important names again.

      • Yikes and Goofy bites. I think I’ll share mine now. Just to confuse the geniuses it’s quite simple. But for people like me it’s quite genious.

      • I’m really attempting to understand the logic behind this now as I am feeling guilty for having jumped out of the chase and tossed my research into the lake of public domain.

        Lois Highwater, you actually have a trip report here from May, posting more or less what you are chiding: https://dalneitzel.com/2015/05/15/on-the-move/

        And Reuben (Slurbs), also the same with a ton of content contribution.

        Is the logic and disdain for sharing more about drawing people away from NM and perhaps logically adding curiosity to Yellowstone? Or is it something I’m else I’m not seeing?

        I really do believe this is what this forum is intended to do, to inform, postulate for argument, and share ideas with other like-minded people. Contribute, or lurk. Any little scrap can help confirm or discount an idea that leads any one of us closer to finishing this thing.

        For the sake of argument, and speaking in terms of cooperative game theory, the probability of many of us looking using open-source information theory is significantly better than the probability of one of us correctly solving it on our own. I don’t believe this should last 1,000 years. I don’t believe it should’ve lasted this long considering how we are being treated by Yellowstone officials and the press. Greed is usually and easily predictable in USA culture, so competitive individualism is most predictable here in this treasure hunt. I’m thinking outside the box, and I choose altruism for this situation. Sorry if this “spoils the hunt” for you.

        • E.C. don’t let the paranoid psychos bother you. You are correct, the reason this blog exists is to share information. If someone doesn’t want to share information that’s fine; but trying to stop everyone from sharing information is being in a state of greedy obsessive paranoia.

          • You know in the past I have seen pages of posts on this very subject. No one at that time called any one greedy obsessive or paranoid just because they stated an opinion.

            All she was saying – is to post or not to post. Along time ago that was a big question for us – but now not so much.

          • Into, there are those that are of the opinion that the chase is a hoax. Which is fine, that is their choice; but this is not the place for them and they will be invited to leave.

            Likewise if someone doesn’t want to share information this is obviously not the place for them. Someone trying to stop the discussion about the chase is wasting our time and will be asked to leave.

        • @EC sure is nice to read what smart folks such as your self and others on here have to say…..not sure what the chase would be like without this and other web based info, from learning about needs for hiking permits to park closures, animals, weather, everything….RU planning to make the book signing?

        • You don’t believe it should’ve lasted this long?I think it’s fantastic he created this to be so hard.I enjoy doing the research and I alway s have a smile on my face as I’m plotting against Fenn.That’s the thrill!Well, I enjoyed reading the solve.Iwould say try harderand stay In the chase,but I wouldbe lying.You’re dangerous!!…AARRRGH, Hoist the black flags, another ones walking the plank! 😀

          • Nah man. Even “Win Ben Stein’s Money” was only around for 6 seasons, and this isn’t that. 😉

    • The probably faint was in reference to she and was on November 2, 2013. Who was closer originally was a she but then was changed to a he with perhaps a she with him. If she knew she was so close she would probably faint and try to figure out where she was and tear up the country side. BTW IMO don’t worry about people writing their solves and partial solves. I thought there were only two teams on the right track and it is unknown if either team is on this or any other blog. I have yet to see any clues that match mine on here – so there have to be many more interpretations than thought.

  49. The simple complexity of the Chase.

    Forrest, The Poem, and the treasure. Three separate pieces of a puzzle, but singular and woven together like fine tapestry. The different colored threads complimenting and contrasting together, weaving a picture worthy of the great halls of kings. Like all art, the beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as patrons we attempt to understand the artists intent and probe their minds with our own understanding, sometimes succeeding and sometimes missing the mark considerably.

    Over the last couple of years I have done this very thing myself. I have followed the path of the purist, decoded hidden numbers, hypothesized some conspiracies worthy of a novel, and lost faith with myself, telling myself it’s not there because “I” can’t find it. All in all a cycle that most would say they themselves have experienced and have come full circle with. In a way it is a story of the human condition, from birth to death, our constant desire to define ourselves and answer the question “who am I”.
    Even if this was not the intent of Forrest in creating his treasure hunt, some things are inevitable, one cannot foresee all the forces at work in the lives of others and prepare for all scenarios.

    I write this for you my fellow searchers, believing that at some point in the chase it became more than a hobby, it became a part of your life and hopefully in a good way.
    Is the poem simple or complex? Is it really there? Why (Douglas Adams) is the answer to life 42?

    I once told my son while playing checkers, which is the most difficult opponent: a very intelligent person or yourself?

    Just my thoughts, nothing more, nothing less.

    • Near Indiana, I once waxed philosophical about my experience in this chase. Then Forrest’s reality slapped me in the face.

      If we’re discussing Forrest’s determined target market for TTOTC – ‘every redneck from Texas with 6 kids and no job’ – Beauty is in the eyes of the Beerholder!

      • And perhaps through the eyes of Herodotus via Clio, if I’m reading my current work correctly.

  50. @Jdiggins regarding Santa Fe book signing, would be fun to go and meet up with other Fenner’s if that is what we are……would it be considered bad form or taste to use the opportunity to get an autograph on TTOTC……? Wonder what RT fare out of SFO or SAC is?

      • @Jdiggins: I can’t sleep! Looks like for me and my side kick (soon to be 20 yo daughter) to go it would be cheaper to just drive….I’m finding low 300’s RT for one person, plus renting a car so driving is looking more logical….we have a KIA that gets great mileage but wouldn’t be very useful off road, and our Tundra would be killer but then the gas consumption….lol, planning and hoping for a Fall trip for sure so maybe this trip could just be checking out Santa Fe and all the historical landmarks and same up in Taos with a few tarry scant marvel gazes here and there….would be a long drive, even to Vegas from up here is hard on this old man, lol! But, a chance to meet the man in person……

        • Might there be more than one “North of Santa Fe” in New Mexico?

          It’s becoming difficult for me to assume that the beginning of the Chase has to be limited.

          Some elements of my reading comprehension abilities are certainly not as clear cut as I once interpreted them to be.


          • SLF –

            I like your out of the box thinking. I don’t know about NM – but there’s north of the SF railroad – and north of the SF trail.

  51. Among the many talented people here there must be someone who wants to make an extra GRAND! The Bernallilo school district is looking for some one to pen a children’s book. What better children’s book than one titled “A Fenn venture”. New Mexico school children from 1st to 3rd grade. This would be so easy to do for the right person. Just follow the thrill of the chase from a child perspective. For details you can contact the school district or AM 770, I’m sure (what a cool name) Candy Cruze knows all about it. Just I would cast out out there.

  52. Does anybody know, how long after the release of the book/poem, the clue of Utah and Idaho not being part of the chase released?

  53. Hi There, Does anyone know when it was that FF confirmed the box was still there? I want to say it was early this year, is that true or was it last year?

    • He never confirmed a box? And he was only 99% sure about the chest. And who knows when.

  54. Okay so I’m putting myself out there to get eyes rolling, and perhaps little chastised for not doing my homework, but I swear I’ve looked and I have not seen anywhere talk of the following:
    on page 5 of TT OTC just above the dedication there’s a little swirrely mark that people often put underneath a signature or whatnot. Number one, what’s that called?
    Number 2, it’s different, and does it mean anything to anybody else? Its always been a curious thought to me maybe I’m just crazy or maybe I’m just working on eccentric?

    • The dedication itself seems very important to me. He is addressing a group he already knows, not one generated by the book.

      • Is it not both groups it is dedicated to? Existing thrill seekers he knew/knows, as well as those generated by the book?

    • Turn the book on its side. The mark you refer to appears to be a signature: “ff”. Much like the cursive transcripts you see in a monogram.

      Scott W.

    • jdiggins – hand writing is a very old art form some call it calligraphy. i remember as a child that i had some story books that contain what is called Illuminated Letters. these books were very cherished for their colorful pages and little curly Q’s at the end of a story. i think anyone of Mr. Fenn age would of had a story book or two that contain this art work and have have a father as a teacher books would have been important to the family. as for the curly Q i include a link to samples of filigree. just thought of all the cartoons from the Warner Brothers time that had this art form in them.
      Illuminated Letters https://www.pinterest.com/explore/illuminated-letters/

      • sorry jdiggins i am sorry that site is on pintest herehttps://www.google.com/search?q=illuminated+letters&espv=2&biw=931&bih=603&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CCkQsARqFQoTCPLEyIv30ccCFU_vgAodh44Amg a better one

      • Thank you wildbirder! Interesting stuff for sure! I took a brief calligraphy stint in 3rd grade….many moons ago. 🙂

        • jdiigins you are welcome. it is easy to go off the deep looking for meaning in everything that Mr. Fenn has done or might do in the future. i joked with hubby the other day that it was reported that Mr Fenn awoke, stretched and yawned twice instead the his usual one yawn setting off a world debate of what his yawning meant. we as searchers must take time to think about all of this, research, then decide to keep an idea or through it away. if we had every idea we have ran to ground on a piece of paper i am afraid we would have killed enough trees to fill a wood. lol we to have gone down some very strange rabbit holes without our sandwiches, flashlights and carrots. LOL

  55. Hey does anyone know if Forrest owned more than one airplane at the turn of this century? Dal has he ever mentioned it?

  56. *IMO* Things are about to get very interesting. Imagine if the Today Show was to show up at his upcoming book signing event. I better start checking on flights!!

  57. To All,

    If any of you found the real treasure chest, and Forrest asked you to keep a secret for now, would you?


    • Pam Mr Fenn is from the state of Tx where i live. Tx is considered a southern state and i am original from the southern state of Ala. we do not have a monopoly on being po-lite. however people from the south take pride in our manners, try to go out of the way to be nice, and make people feel welcomed. we are not perfect by any means but we try very hard. i think Mr. Fenn wouldn’t ask us to keep a secret if we found the TC. it is still out there somewhere in one of four states. we went to a relatively small canyon to search and it was beyond hard because if you are in the the woods with no human trails it is very RUGGED but doable. i will add that if you are in an area like we searched it would reasonable that Mr. Fenn might use a swallow cave or overhang to protect the TC from falling trees. we also after looking dont think its buried but in time leaves, limbs and plant debris might bury it some making it harder to spot.

    • Here we go again……..Pam, Fenn said he never heard of the Christ of the Mines Shrine. So if you want to discuss your solution allow comments on your sight. For those that want to see Pam’s sight it is awhisperer.com…….There’s a few thousand hits for you Pam, your welcome, now don’t bother us with your nonsense all over again.

      Third, I had not heard of Christ of the Mines Shrine in Silverton, Colorado until many months after I hid the treasure.


      • Goofy, I have to aver that the quote from Forrest in Scrapbook 78 morally, ethically, spiritually, physically, positively, absolutely, undeniably and reliably means that the solution of the poem and the location of the chest is not at the Christ of the Mines Shrine. Its not merely there, it is really most sincerely not there. Ok, I plagiarized a bit from the Mayor of Munchkin Land but I think it expresses the point of my most considered opinion very well.

        • Correction: On second thought, I think the words I used were made by the coroner of Munchkin Land and not the Mayor. Sorry.

      • Goofy,

        I’m sorry you seem to be having a bad day, and that my comment has you so upset. Looking back, it appears you have a distinct issue with any female who makes a point you may not agree with. I’m not your friend, neighbor, or therapist, but I am a independent thinker who is not and will not ever be afraid to stand up for my beliefs. On behalf of the ladies who are brave enough to put their names and faces on these blog, I applaud you. Your opinions count, and I, along with others enjoy reading what you have to say. Sorry if that offends you Goofy.

        Fortunately, my website http://www.awhisperer.com doesn’t need your support. Over one million individuals have viewed my solve since I posted it only 15 months ago. I owe most of that success to the wonderful article about me featured on the front page of The Santa Fe New Mexican Sunday newspaper.

        Also, please be kind enough to check your quote about Mr. Fenn’s statement regarding The Christ of the Mines Shrine in SIlverton. Not only did you misquote him, but you failed to mention what he later said in another interview regarding the same topic.

        Remember Goofy, every dog has his day. Yours may come sooner than anticipated. Being kind and respectful of others may not get you the bronze chest, but it may bring you the treasure in which you are searching for.



        • Actually Pam I’m having a great day……Thanks for being concerned.

          Your female martyrdom routine is ridiculous; I’m an equal opportunity nuker.

          I did not misquote Fenn; here it is again. Third, I had not heard of Christ of the Mines Shrine in Silverton, Colorado until many months after I hid the treasure.

          If you will go to the link I supplied you can read his words for yourself.

          And peace to you cupcake….

          • Goofy,

            The last person who called me “cupcake” ended up with icing on their face…..

            During your rant regarding Mr. Fenn’s quote about the Shrine, you failed to point out number nine on the link you supplied:


            Luckily you already have this link so you just have to scroll down a little further!!

            Your Welcome!


          • pam we are totally baffled by you claiming that Fenn is send people to the Shrine. its a structure and the TC IS NOT AT A STRUCTURE!!!!!

          • Sorry sweetie didn’t mean to offend you…..I’m not ranting, you’re the one yelling.

            So are you saying he told us; “Third, I had not heard of Christ of the Mines Shrine in Silverton, Colorado until many months after I hid the treasure.”; then later in the same post took it back by saying he reserved the right to be wrong. You’re kidding right?

            I mean really……..that makes no sense at all. As far as I can remember you are the only one he has said point blank that you are wrong; other than the folks that thought it was in a cemetery, outhouse, or mine.

            Fenn said you are wrong……consider it a special favor and let it go.

          • Goofy,

            I’m pretty thick skinned, and it’s really difficult to offend me. And, btw if I was “yelling” you would know it. All of my words come from a place of peace so please understand that. If I have come across as harsh it is only to get my point across to you.

            It seems odd to me why my solve seems to upset you so much. Could I be correct? You seem to have gone way out of your way today with a very futile attempt to discredit me and my solve. I can’t but wonder why??

            Let me be clear…I have stated on my site TTOTC POEM is a METAPHOR which leads the searcher to The Christ of The Mines Shrine. The “treasure chest” is an entirely different matter. One I have yet to discuss.

            Also, my missing letter “X”, 24 lines, and nine clues are explained in my solve which coincidentally spells CHRIST SHRINE. Furthermore, I, unlike you have the guts to put my name, face, and heart out on a website that I fund 100%. I don’t make money, sell books, or ask for notoriety.

            I do it in the name of Jesus Christ our Savior, and if you have a problem with that then all I can do is hope that one day you will receive the peace that surpasses all understanding.


          • Pam you are making claims that aren’t true. Leading people on like you and Fenn have some sort of agreement .

            We went through all of this last year. You simply cannot accept you are wrong. I find that amazing….

            Fenn has said the poem has nothing to do with the Christ of the Mines Shrine; metaphorically, literally, or any other way since he never heard of it until after he hid the treasure…….What is so hard to understand?

            “Third, I had not heard of Christ of the Mines Shrine in Silverton, Colorado until many months after I hid the treasure.”

          • Holy crap… Why do some bring in Jesus to push their point… I’m pretty sure the guy could care less about a treasure hunt.

            Although he maybe helpful getting across that dang creek.

        • Pam, your solve is simplistic, and you were unable to admit you were wrong. I find it unbelievable that because you could not find it, you concluded that it did not exist. Your desire to be center stage is mind boggling to me. Even now you cannot let go, and you obviously think you know more than everyone else. There are many brilliant people who have come up with viable solves. Obviously, you don’t stand by your solve, or you wouldn’t keep trying to figure this out. Whoever does find the chest will be the one deserving of recognition.
          As for the millions who view your blog…..well that is a lot less competition for the rest of us, imo

          • pam i sent a post to you the other day i thought but you may have missed. we have a very solid solve and we need to go finish our search but because there are no human improve trails it is covered in fallen trees, with large boulders to small ankle turn rocks. we think a group of people could search our area and not fine the Tc. not because it an’it there because there is so much there to search even though it is only a few hundred feet wide and a few miles long. because the ground is so uneven i don’t know how we will ever do a complete search. if we don’t find the TC it does mean someone else already found it it will mean we just didn’t if its there.
            if people are searching in terrain that is full of trees-wood it will be very hard to find. we built our own make shift box and at 200 ft it was very hard to see and where we are searching nigh on impossible to see more than a foot or two away. the world is just way to big and even though the search area of the four states has been narrowed down by the TFTW map it is still a HUGE AREA to search.

          • I’m sorry wildbirder, I must have missed it. Please send it to my email pamela@awhisperer



          • we are trying to limit how much we email people from the blog. we have a few we have become friend with and email. we are wanting to limit messages for blog so we dont discuss poem and etc.

          • Hi Bet,

            Please understand I am saying the poem is a Metaphor. One that leads to The Christ of The Mines Shrine. The physical treasure chest is another story. So please tell me where I am wrong in my opinion that the poem TTOTC is a metaphor?



    • howdy there Pam, hunch here. you bet I would keep it a secret if FF told me to. this is his game, his rules, he is in charge. if I had the real treasure chest I would just ask him- what now? of course he gets the bracelet back. but I aint never had my hands on items of such great value. he has. he would be the best financial advisor you could find. i bet he works cheap too, he dont need the money. ha ha.

      • Agreed, unless he waited for what I felt was an unfair amount of time to the people spending time and money searching. I don’t recall where I read it, but I recall reading that he has said that once it was proven to him that it was found, he would make the announcement quickly. The bigger question in my mind is what if it is not found until after FF has passed?

        • “Unfair amount of time to the people spending time and money on searching.”

          This Windy City is exactly opposite of the challenge to begin with. If those searcher can’t utilize a budget on how much time and money they have for such an undertaking, who’s responsibility does that fall to. Certainly not Fenn. Sure there will always be some with the capability of searching anytime they wish, and others needed to plan just like anything else in life…

          I hear this more and more as time goes on, How can he let me spend so much time and money. Some Idiots have mortgaged their homes, borrowed from dear old mom, spent 10’s of thousands to go look, leaving family behind, just to make the trip a little cheaper. The only ones responsible for their actions is themselves.

          And as you stated… if fenn is convinced the chest has been retrieved he said he would notify 3 major networks and Dals blog. But if the chest was found last year and fenn only was convince yesterday… should we hang him by is toes and tar and feather him?

          Go search, don’t go… Sorry this type of thinking
          ” unless he waited for what I felt was an unfair amount of time…” has been said so many time, I wonder when the chest is found will people be so upset at the solve, would they demand their hard earn and ignorantly spent money back?

          • It sounds like you misunderstood my post. Let me rephrase. I said that if he knew and was not announcing for an extended period of time that would be unfair to those who are still pending their time and money searching. I would in that circumstance if I was the finder of the TC announce it myself if he waited too long. I guess I omitted the obvious that if I was the finder, he would have the proof right quick. I also said that he has said he would announce quickly so that would not be a problem.

            People who spend their time and money searching now do so by their own choice. I never suggesting hanging FF by his toes.

        • IMO – those interested in just the thrill of the chase haven’t gotten that far or care about the loot. Those who are hoping for fame and fortune are concerned about the loot and safety. I think I will have the problem of “marvel gaze” and am not sure what to do if I really do see it. I just hope the spot remains quiet and without crowds. I doubt that I would want media following me around. I am doing it tired and weak and maybe all I will get is a picture. I wonder if I should leave it where I find it. At least it is Labor Day and most of the summer crowds are returning home and preparing for the autumn and winter holidays. Yes, I would let Forrest know and listen good again to any suggestions he would have about the loot of Indulgence.

          • hi kathryn we have prayed about it and we will be taking the TC to the officials in the state we are searching to follow the law and file a claim. we have checked with each state and not one has a protocol for what to do if someone fines it. even the feds dont have a plan

        • Windy city, I bet Dal could be our adopted “Fenn father”.
          If I found it, (being positive…when I find it), I’d call Dal first anyway, to video walking the clues to the treasure, then go with Dal to Forrest’s house. I Def want Dal involved, I owe him that. I even plan on giving him a chicken egg nugget!

          But, imo, Dal just may become the go-to if Fenn passes before it’s found.

    • Pam and others,

      This is a “counting your chicks before they hatch” kind of response. Along these same lines of thinking I have not seen much written here on Dal’s blog where we searchers have talked about our “exit strategies”. What if you do find Indulgence? How are you going to deal with that? I must confess this is as hard or harder for me than solving the poem.

      Because there is so much we don’t know about the treasure, I’ve been thinking about all the legal things one would have to do to claim the proze. Can you, yourself keep the secret? I am certain I could, but how do I make a valid claim without giving away the secrecy that I may want to keep for awhile?

      I am going to make an educated guess on this, but I think in the wax sealed/covered jar is more than his memoirs. I’m guessing it is an itemized “packing list” that has been formally noterized that gives title to the contents and the chest. I’ll go so far as to say, there is probably a “secret message” of some kind that will need to be conveyed back to Forrest or his kin to let them know that it has been found. I’m not sure just a picture of the chest would suffice.

      And to clarify, I’m not looking to find out how you would spend the money or divest the treasure as your long term strategies. I am curious as to what folks are going to do in the hours immediatley following the claim, say the first 3 or 4 days – and why?

      I’ll share what I’m thinking right now, and this may change after reading what you all put here. But right now, the first think I will do is head straight home. Once home, I would reinventory the goodies and then secure the treasure. Not until this is all done would I contact Forrest. Like I said above, I am hoping/planning on his having thought this through so it is a very easy think to do.

      Then I would ask him to “keep the secret” of exactly who discovered it until I could contact my legal advisor or advisors. During the time it took me to get my affairs in order, I am thiking this blog and others will light up with all kinds of comments.

      Once I was ready, or thought so anyways, I would publicly announce/declare what was agreed upon by Forrest and myself. I’m thiking I would not disclose the site so that forrest could go there to die in peace if that was still a desire that he wanted to undertake. (Sorry, bad pun.)

      So what say you all? What would you do in the first few days after walking out of the wood with Indulgence?

      • Swwot,

        Those are some great thoughts and questions you are asking yourself and others. I would continue to support my solve and let Mr. Fenn handle the rest.


      • Laugh to myself, walk back to my truck and buy a nice big juicy steak dinner, mash potatoes w / gravy and an Ice cold beer to celebrate. Then go home and give my wife the item she has been waiting for. and peacefully keep quiet.

      • Go back to my motel room with the chest. Pour the contents on my bed. Warm the gold up with a hair dryer and…ROLL IN IT NAKED!!!
        Then, I would call Forrest, then Dal, sending him pics. Staying secret on my identity.
        Cash a bit at a time, I would do more philanthropy work with it.
        Still remaining invisible to all.
        I would let F decide if he wants to give away his spot.
        And, of course, he would get his bracelet back!
        ¥Peace ¥

      • Ok, first I will scamper back to my vehicle, laughing so hard that well, the first thing on my list might be to change my pants. Sorry if that’s too much info but I really do wonder if I might spontaneously combust if and when I find the chest. What an explosive event eh? The next thing I will do is contact FF. I will probably notify Dal as well and ask him to meet me in SF to document and check out the find if he is willing and if that’s ok with FF. I will then figure out a way to make some dough to ease some finances by selling my story, setting up a show and tell or charging for appearances on shows, etc. I will find a good home for the chest and contents where it will remain intact and be known as Raven’s Fenn Cache for evermore.

      • I would try and get home without becoming paranoid about being followed! LOL I would read the autobiography, and think about all it entails.

        I would go see Forrest take him back his bracelet . I would ask his advise because I dont know if I would be able to think straight. (Chuckling)

        I would arrange to get my kids home, and we would all marvel at the treasure.
        I would mail someone very important to the chase something special from the chest, she earned it. 🙂

        • Deb, yes, I too, would mail a dEar friendE a token of my appreciation! Queen Elizabeth…in code!

  58. I have to think that in keeping the privacy of his beloved family in mind; he thought that one out a long, long time ago.


    • Hey Mark nice see your typing. hang in there buddy. if this treatment is hard on you let PRAY it harder still on those cancer cells. if you need a laugh think of a 300 pound lady falling in a steam getting up and falling again. HA HA HA hey dont laugh too hard you might be next.LOL

    • But he did say whoever finds it wouldn’t be the type to keep quiet about it… Maybe he just means he is pretty sure they would contact him due to the iou that might be in the chest… 🙂

        • Don’t forget safety deposit box… might as well cover all of it.

          “I said on the Today show that the treasure is not associated with any structure. Some people say I have a desire to mislead. That is not true. There are no notes to be found or safety deposit boxes to be searched. The clues can lead you to the treasure, and it will be there waiting when you arrive.”

        • Sorry Dal… I was referring to the UOI… the Unidentified Object Inclueded… in the chest… 🙂 lol

        • DAL, I’ve been trying to reply to your email all day but it says your mailbox is full. Let me know when it’s working again. 🙂

      • I think he already told us what to do. Contact your banker then the IRS. However I’m sure Mr. Fenn would be OK with Donna’s plan.

  59. Dal, thought he said he couldn’t remember if he put it in there or not?
    Guess it doesn’t matter, tho’!

    • Forrest-

      I have figured out there is no treasure. This is a medical study being done by Dr. Fenn concerning the use of riddles to help delay the effects of Alzheimers Disease.

      We are the case study to prove his theory that by doing riddles helps your ability to keep your mind healthy. This will soon be published in the PubMeds that are available to all doctors. The population at large will only get a brief overview of the complete study, which will more then likely not help much.

      Looking forward to receiving your memoir, researching has been a lot of fun for my son and me. He is very excited about our trip. Which I think will be in June for 2 weeks.

      I am concerned about one thing about the quest, should I carry a firearm (as laws permit)? Its more to do with safety with wildlife there, then protecting from other people. But I guess that wouldn’t be a bad idea either.

      Hope all is well


      I hid the treasure chest at the first onset of dementia. I knew I had a disease so I made myself a note that revealed the exact location because I wanted later on to give some additional clues. Now I don’t remember where I put the note. Maybe if I search my fishing box I can find what it is that I was looking for. But why would I want to fish in this weather? I’ll go ask my wife Phyllis where my tool kit is.

      Oh brother where out thou.

      • Seeker –

        That was funny. In my dementia today – I finally came across something I have been looking for to convince you that Forrest did indeed put “hints” or by his very own words “clues” in the book. Here it is……………

        “Thanks Jenny. I have read only about treasures that were hidden by pirates, and I wish I could find one of those. I wrote the poem in my book because I needed an avenue where I could present clues and start searchers on the chase. I worked on it for a long time and am pleased that it did its job so well. f”

  60. Pam,
    My apologies If I misunderstood. The article I read said you had found the treasure….I interpreted this to mean you had found the chest. I think the article was misleading and created a great deal of confusion.

    • Mindy –

      I gotta tell you – you are amazing. Anyone who would burn a page in their book and then go order another one to do the same thing to – is one serious searcher – and ought to be placed on treasure hunter of the month. !!!!

      You go girl………………….

      • Uh, I think you maybe got a little too intense… there’s a line, VanGogh crossed it… I think you are getting close.

        • Nah, not even close to self-mutilation. Just throwing out a precursor to the next chapter of this chase. 🙂

    • I read your post, but you don’t seem to be listening. Mr. Fenn told us we only needed the poem and a good map.

      IMO, you are wasting your time picking the images and photos apart.

      I believe that perhaps an illustration in the book might be hinting to a bigger concepts at most, but nothing more.

      If I were the hired illustrator for the book, I would have no issue photo-shopping images to produce items with more impact. Perhaps the “original” head was simply unflattering; thus the reason to graft a “good” head onto a body.

      I respect your analysis, but I don’t necessarily agree with the conclusions.

      Scott W.

      • Scott, that’s okay. I’m not asking anyone to agree with me.

        However Forrest did say there are subtle hints sprinkled throughout the book.

        Why are some people so adamant on abandoning something Forrest said will HELP?

        Yes, a first grader can learn to read without a dictionary, but without that helpful tool, the task is much harder and comprehension harder to achieve.

        • Mindy,

          I respect your angle on this. I just don’t agree with the whole thing.

          Believe me – I’ve had plenty of searchers disagree with me, or simply didn’t get what I was trying to say.

          Maybe I just don’t get it and I defaulted to “disagree”.

          Scott W.

        • You are correct about drawings but they are hints to the location of the chest or they help validate your in the right spot I found them 2 years ago and now found them all on the side of a canyon like forrestshowed in his shower

        • Page 99 ttotc is the canyon that’s my opinion but i will walk out with the chest wow that was bold of me

        • Remember those comics where two pictures lookedalike but you had to find what was different this is like that but they are there lumber jack and moon with dove in nest and lts more forrestmust have spent along time there to see them all and draw what he saw

        • Mindy
          I have a couple of questions about your blog post.

          Forrest told us that the hints in the book “were not deliberately placed” and that there are no “red-herrings”.

          You speculate that:

          “I found what I believe is undeniable proof that Forrest did alter some images and placed hidden hints in the drawings. ”
          “Now, many of you are saying that some other guy drew the pictures and therefore, couldn’t have hidden symbols that are hints to where the treasure lies. That’s true, but who’s to say Forrest didn’t add the hints after Allen Polt had turned them in?”

          Can you give us a logical explanation of how these “hints” got there if not deliberately placed?


          ” Maybe Forrest was hoping the finder of those letters would assume “printing error” and not examine it further. ”

          So you seem to be saying that Fenn is purposelly misleading us contrary to what he has said. Do you believe that Fenn is lying to us?

          • we dont believe the drawings have hints hide in them but the drawing as a whole maybe a hint. we could be very wrong but we found a hint or two in one of the drawnings

        • Mindy,

          done consciously and intentionally.
          “a deliberate attempt to provoke conflict”
          synonyms: intentional, calculated, conscious, intended, planned, studied, knowing, willful, purposeful, purposive, premeditated, preplanned; voluntary, volitional
          “a deliberate attempt to provoke him”

          What else do you have?

          • I also have carefully. Used in this context, he hasn’t deliberately (carefully ) placed the hints, because he wants us to find them.

            Also, he say “the searcher” meaning one, when he placed them there for all.

        • Mindy,
          If he intentionaly altered photos and drawings, I think most reasonable people would agree that is deliberate by definition. I think you are really stretching.

          OK here’s another question: You have assembled what seems like a random collection of “hints”…(ear symbols, tents, random hidden letters, photo shop pictures).

          Can you provide any logical explanation of what these mean and how they might help us with the poem?

          • Not yet. I don’t k ow why they’re there. But the ear symbol is in several more places. I don’t know how it all fits yet. I don’t know if they will ultimately be helpful or not. I think they ate, if only for the fact that Forrest had no idea the chase would grow this big. But they are there. And I’m fairly certain they’re there for a reason. I believe the deliberate to aid THE searcher is being interpreted wrong. As long as careful remain a definition of deliberate, it can’t be dismissed just because we think he used the first definition on the list.

        • Mindy,

          Not sure you really answered this:

          ” Maybe Forrest was hoping the finder of those letters would assume “printing error” and not examine it further. ”

          So you seem to be saying that Fenn is purposelly misleading us contrary to what he has said. Do you believe that Fenn is lying to us?

          • No, but we need to broaden our interpretations of what he says. Take the word “Independence.” It could mean freedombut if you “bend” the word you get “in dependence.

            When my French teacher got his hair cut, we’d say “You got a haircut,” He’s reply, “No, I got lots of hair cut.”

            IMO, Forrest also does this to make his words seem clear as day, but don’t mean what we think.

            He’s not lying. We ate misinterpreting.

          • F DID say we shouldn’t discount anything in the book. I take that to mean words, drawings or pictures!

    • Mindy,

      The first pic you posted is what I will comment on, as I think your correct, some kind of work was done on it… The other pics and drawing is a lot of imagination, curious yes… but i can see that someone looking for something can see what they would like. With that said…

      The “coin pic” on your blog is interesting as it appear to have been cut in 1/2. The brighter 5 or 6 coins in the center separate two images exactly the same on both side [ Not just the stacked coins].

      My only guess would be that the image may have been cut to remove something shown… maybe something too telling. But I would agree that both sides of that picture are exactly the same, coins, light ~ brightness, and shadows. A hint or clue would be a stretch for me. If this was done for that purpose… a hint or a clue, then it was done deliberately, which we have been told was not done… and definitely not subtle in my perspective.

      I don’t see important information personally. Like i said, maybe something else was there that was too telling and corrected at the 11th hour, so to speak.

      But, very good eyes.

      • I agree. It is way more than just the little stacks of coins that are circled. The entire image reminds me of ” hotel wall paper”. The pattern could go on infinitely.

        Seeker – I think your eyes are pretty good too.

        Scott W.

    • Mindy, As long as your comfortable with where you draw your lines and use your mind it doesn’t matter what others think or do or say.

      • 23,

        You are correct. And as Mindy said, “it is what it is”.

        I would like to add that disagreeing with someone doesn’t mean you don’t respect their ideas.

        Scott W

          • That’s why I like this blog. Respect doesn’t mean you have to agree, but is a courtesy bestowed by hard work and passion.

          • I say, anything in the book is fair game. After all, TTOTC is the vehicle Fenn used to tell the world that he did what he did. Who’s to say what the hints are…
            Mindy, you have two books now, maybe a page by page burn is in order. I like it !

      • 23K

        You’ re correct in your comment. But I’ll add if you are going to post a comment and ask others about it… Then it fair game.

  61. I am not sure where to post this,,but I will give it a try here.I am not sure also whether it has been raised before. It has been some months for me since I made up my mind on my ideal solve …just waiting for time and space (I am outside USA) to put boots on the ground to check my solve.But the point I want to make today is not about my solve but about some possibility about Fenn’s poem being a double treasure map.
    Let me explain.I am wondering whether we might be dealing with a poem that has two layers of treasure clues or two abstractions of treasure clues.Fenn had a chest of treasure and wrote the poem containing 9 clues to lead us there,,,that is one layer,or the outer layer,,,,could there be a possibility that there could be an inner layer of treasure clues which Fenn has deeply hidden?….another bigger treasure ?..and one has to find the chest first in order to poem,,, the second bigger prize? I know it may sound far fetched. Here are some strange things in the poem in this direction.

    In the first stanza he says
    “my treasures bold” meaning his chest and then he says
    “And hint of riches new and old”,,, the new being his chest treasure while the old could be another ancient treasure that he wants to give hint about besides his chest…then with this introduction the rest of the poem goes on to give clues on how to find his chest treasue and culminates that quest by saying “Just take the chest and go in peace”.But strangely enough the poem does not end there,,,the outer message about the chest treasure might have been communicated but he wants to hint of another treasure which is ancient…and this inner treasure clue is more subtle than the first…he puts stanza 5 to tell us he knows what he is doing,he wants us to search as he did ,,but what are we searching for ?….his chest? Yes but more than the chest …he advises us to “hear him and listen good” and then he says “your efforts are worth the cold” and ” if you are brave and in the wood”,,,then comes finally ” l will give you title to the GOLD”,,,why on earth does he speak about giving title to the gold as he already said go in peace taking the chest? Could it be he is referring to anothrr treasure entirely of gold? You see the chest is not only of gold.The chest treasure has gold and other valuables but he says “the gold” at the end..could it be another treasure of gold(entirely gold)?…The chest belonged to him..he put it somewhere,he gave clue and if someone finds it he says “just take it and go in peace”…but on the possible other inner treasure he can only give “title” to the “gold” ,,maybe because he is referring of a huge gold catche (or gold mine) of some sort which he knew and may have benefited from it in the past and now wants others to find it…hence as this “gold” is not his own he can only bestow “title” as the finder files claim to his find to the authorities..this is in contrast to “take and go in peace” that he ascribes for his own treasure chest…I hope you grasp what I am trying to say.
    Hence in this alternative “Fenn poem treasure view” the chest treasure of Fenn has two roles..It is a treasure in its own but also a “marker” of some kind to lead the clever one to a more grand treasure.The outer layer of the poem leads to the chest but once one finds the chest in that vicinity or somehow related to that find one can decode the inner and more large treasure of gold (specifically gold).Hence the poem like modern softwares may he acting as a ” basic” map to lead to the chest,but can also be used to decode another gold hoard if used in “advanced mode”.Hence the chest treasure may not be the end but acts like a marker to be a means to an end in finding some larger hoard of gold….

    If this theory is correct,I may have some impression on the nature of this “ancient treasure” of “gold” that Fenn is communicating in his poem…. but I can not say at the moment…But I hope I have given you one theory to consider as you crack this mysterious treasure poem.If you think it is a stupid and crazy idea just ignore it.What I say does not derail anyone from getting the chest but rather I am offering some ideas that may go beyond the chest find…ofcourse all I write is my humble opinion and I may be wrong.

    Tintin Treasure

    • Tintin very interesting, Forrest was once asked if he hid more than the treasure chest (such as a cache of gold..sort of like a second prize) he chose not to answer but deflected with (I’ve buried 8 bells)

      • Cat cut,
        You brought to my mind the 8 Jars f buried. Only 8. If this poem is more than an all in one or a multi-layered poem, well 8 bells may fit nicely into a solve. Poem solved is layer one, solve location for 8 jars is layer 2. Solve location for 7……,

  62. @ Mindy

    You talked about a mark on the Benchmark map with no name (North of Cody) quite possibly a hint after all it is bench(mark) maps. The postmarks are along the same lines.

    Think about this:

    I can keep my secret where


    Look up the definition of spot and you’ll find the word mark.

    :a trail marker; especially :a mark made on a tree by chipping off a piece of the bark

  63. Sad story of Scott Jurek, the runner that ran the Appalachian Trail got in trouble at the end of his run. A friend brought him some champagne and some friends gathered to help celebrate. Seems that the park rangers are afraid too many people will start using the park and keep it from being rustic outdoors. Where have we heard similar stories??

  64. Dal, Goofy or anyone else who may know: Anyone heard from POG (Pirateofgold)? I couldn’t find an email address for him to check on him myself, and he hasn’t been keeping his blog up so I was hoping someone might be in touch with him. I see he hasn’t posted anything about his booty either. That sounds kinda weird given todays vernacular but you know what I mean…..Any word? Thanks. And POG if your out there, check in and let us know you are ok!

  65. Here’s an “odds and end” thought –

    My guess is there are plenty of talented people here. I’m guessing we have plenty of folks that have great ideas (outside the chase), but never act on them because they don’t see how they can turn that Idea into reality. I’m one of those people, by the way.

    I’m thinking about the time I have spent, and the collective time we have spent together in the chase.

    From time to time, I wonder what mountains we could move if we could just channel a tiny fraction of our efforts chasing the chest toward something else. Pick the best idea you ever had as an example.

    I’m not knocking anyone here at all; heck, I’m in the same boat.

    I’m just doing the math : 100,000 or so people world-wide researching, lurking, posting, searching…. Suppose they/we only spend 15 minutes per day on average. What is the collective exertion that could have been channeled to something else – per day?

    Well, I’m not going to do the math for you but it’s huge! Convert it in to man-days, then convert it in to man-years. Yeah! That number occurs every day!

    Will I stop chasing the Fenn chest? No.

    An economist would look at this as an “opportunity cost” situation. Lump us all together, and the cost of opportunity is enormous.

    I think about these things.

    Scott W.

    • Scott, I agree it is a lot of time. But just think of the time folks spend watching tv, sitting in traffic, texting stupid jokes, playing golf, shaving body parts, listening to a bunch of bozos debate how ugly each of them are, sitting in Starbucks, playing an accordion, solving a rubric cube, futilely washing skunk stink off a dog, watching the clock at work, doodling, and well, add anything else you may want to add. The sum of all that makes the time spent on the chase seem very small. In my opinion of course….

  66. Hey folks, thank you! I missed all of you all as well.

    Scott I have to agree, there are an enormous amount of man/woman hours spent on this chase that we can never get back… nor would I want them! I love the chase, it’s players and f’s idea of putting a treasure out for others to find. Genius! And also, all of research we have all done… at least for me… has been better than time spent at SIU. I truly have enjoyed it!

    Also Scott, I was discussing with a friend the Idea that ken again suggested, that the TTOTC was indeed created for locals and friends… as you did not so long ago when you asked why f would put his phone number in the first edition. It seems to me that New Mexico is the place to spend our time???

    As for me… I hunt NM, and I can’t wait to get strong enough to get back and find that box!

    And Raven, you described our family perfectly… we waste time on the regular. Smiles
    Mark H. Happy too be back!

    • hey mark we know NM is a large area but let’s not invite anyone else to this area to search. HUSH! LOL
      great to have you back

  67. Non Chase related –

    You might be interested in going outside and looking up Sunday night.

    Sunday night will be a Super Blood Moon. The last time this happened was 1982 and the next time will be 2033.

    A super moon is when the moon is as close to earth as possible. It will appear 14% larger. A “Blood Moon” is a lunar eclipse. The combination of the two is very rare.



    The above let’s you put in you location for exact times.

    Scott W

  68. Summer’s over and no one has announced they found the TC so far. I have an idea for a fun diversion that might even refocus how you think about your solve.

    Recently my daughter (Middle School age) competed in an Academic Decathlon where they had a Zebra puzzle as one of the questions. [See https://csl.name/post/einsteins-puzzle/ for a good example of the original zebra puzzle with a solution.] Some twelve- and thirteen-year-olds in the Decathlon were able to solve this puzzle in 20-30 minutes.

    IMO, because a zebra puzzle has a straightforward solution (like FF’s poem) and doesn’t require any math it is great practice for solving Forrest Fenn’s poem. I modified the puzzle to make it Fennier but the rules and solution are identical. You may get a kick out of trying to solve it. This is purely a mental exercise and does not require any travel. I will post the solution here if there is interest.

    The Puzzle:
    There are 5 Fenn TC seekers who were born in uniquely different states of the USA and bought houses located side-by-side on the same street in an undisclosed canyon down in Idaho so they could share seeking stories and ideas. Each of their houses is painted or decorated a unique color. The seekers each drink uniquely different beverages and read uniquely different magazines. Each of the seekers found something not found by the others, but one of them found Fenn’s TC.

    What is the native state, house color, magazine and beverage of the finder of Fenn’s TC?

    The Clews:
    1. The seeker who reads Field and Stream lives next to the seeker who found a fishing lure in Dal’s plastic box.
    2. The seeker living in the house right in the center drinks Coors because it is brewed in the Rocky Mountains.
    3. An arrowhead stuck in a rock crevice at the bottom of a canyon was found by the seeker who lives next to the National Geographic reader.
    4. The Utah native reads Cosmopolitan.
    5. The Coloradan found a piece of mint chocolate under the bed pillow at the Dude Motel in West Yellowstone.
    6. The Montanan drinks PBR.
    7. The Antique Doll Collecting reader drinks St. Pauli Girl.
    8. The New Mexican lives next to the brown house roofed with brown shingles surrounded by a moat full of warm, brown water.
    9. The seeker in the red house covered with pink roses drinks Rainier Ale.
    10. The seeker in the silver-domed grey house reads National Geographic.
    11. The New Mexican lives in the first house on the left on the street.
    12. The red house covered with pink roses is on the left of the gold-roofed green house next door.
    13. The seeker who reads Treasures found a Bic lighter still full of butane imbedded in the bark of a tree.
    14. The seeker who reads Field and Stream has a neighbor who drinks Dos Equis.
    15. The Wyoming native lives in a blue house painted with white trompe l’oeil clouds.

    BTW, I have no connection to CSL or his blog. I don’t know CSL and he doesn’t know me. I chose to link to his site because it is a clear and concise statement of the zebra problem and he carries no advertising. If you don’t want to give CSL any web hits, there are many wiki pages about zebra puzzles you can read instead, just Google ‘zebra puzzle’. The original formulation of the zebra puzzle had some ambiguity which is halted in my version, although my changes may have obfuscated the perspicuity for some.

    These additional facts won’t help you solve the puzzle in any way but IMHO they are true:
    a. The brown trout mounted over the mantelpiece of the brown house was caught in a canyon down in the Atlas Mountains near Marrakech.
    b. None of the seekers in this puzzle has ever visited Vermont or New Hampshire, but one of them flew over the Grand Canyon on the way to Disneyland.
    c. Clew is frequently spelled clue.
    d. The arrowhead mentioned in Clew #3 is made of obsidian, a type of volcanic glass.
    e. St. Pauli Girl is a Pilsener style beer brewed in strict adherence to the Reinheitsgebot of 1516 by St. Pauli Brauerei C.L. Wilh. Brandt Gmbh & Co. in Bremen, Germany.
    f. The canyon in Idaho where the seekers live was surveyed using a 100 ft long Gunter’s chain consisting of 66 links in accordance with the Public Land Survey Ordinance of 1785.

      • Bear drinks 36 cans of favorite beer
        BAKER LAKE, Wash. (AP) — Rain-eeeeer …. Bear? When state Fish and Wildlife agents recently found a black bear passed out on the lawn of Baker Lake Resort, there were some clues scattered nearby — dozens of empty cans of Rainier Beer.
        The bear apparently got into campers’ coolers and used his claws and teeth to puncture the cans. And not just any cans.

        “He drank the Rainier and wouldn’t drink the Busch beer,” said Lisa Broxson, bookkeeper at the campground and cabins resort east of Mount Baker.

        Fish and Wildlife enforcement Sgt. Bill Heinck said the bear did try one can of Busch, but ignored the rest.

        “He didn’t like that (Busch) and consumed, as near as we can tell, about 36 cans of Rainier.”

        A wildlife agent tried to chase the bear from the campground but the animal just climbed a tree to sleep it off for another four hours. Agents finally herded the bear away, but it returned the next morning.

        Agents then used a large, humane trap to capture it for relocation, baiting the trap with the usual: doughnuts, honey and, in this case, two open cans of Rainier. That did the trick.

        “This is a new one on me,” Heinck said. “I’ve known them to get into cans, but nothing like this. And it definitely had a preference.”

  69. Good effort, X, but you didn’t supply the house color, magazine and brew. Since you have a 20% chance of guessing the seekers’ native state the you need to provide more information for full credit.

  70. Does Fenn know Karl Von Mueller (a noted treasure hunter in the late sixties and seventies)? Or at least mentions him in any of his writings? Any ideas?


  71. I just thought of a word to the Wise.

    If you believe you will find the chest
    every thing you have ever typed here
    will suddenly become interesting
    make it so

  72. I agree with Goofy, I’ve gone back and read thru some back and forth comments by searcher. Some of you think Forrest is giving away actionable info in the scrapbooks, if this were so than why hasn’t anyone found Indulgence? I suspect those same minds are believing that Forrest just told everyone his secret spot is next to a tree |see Jenny Kiles latest post| I would just like to say for these poor $ folk that you must really like crow. Here is a toast to Kathyrns new name, let’s have a feast.

  73. I was just wondering if anyone might know of a complete video or maybe a pod cast of the book signing that took place at “Collected Works Bookstore” with Forrest, Doug Preston & Michael McGarrity “Feb 26, 2011”. Dal, Goofy, maybe Stephanie (if your still following here and did a video) or maybe even you Desertphile, don’t think Tolby did podcasts back that far. Desertphile I see you have a short 9 minute version on YouTube but looking for the whole evening with all these guys and even Bob Haworth singing at the end. If you listen to the youtube version Desertphile put out there at about 8.01 Forrest said a “clue” but it was different – he said the treasure was ” 400 miles west of Teledo” not 300, as if that makes a difference ( must be a early version). Any help on this would be grateful. Thanks. Bur

    • Amy Sweitzer,
      I see you said you were there when Bob Haworth sang the Thrill of the Chase song, you didn’t happen to take a video of that night???? I had just started the search around that time and never payed that event no mine. Anyway if you got something can you share it. Thanks. Bur

  74. well now that we canceled our trip in two weeks and cant not get the off days back we do not have to worry about be short weeks pay. good news hubby has been given a job in our town saving gas and better hrs. oh well life is strange sometimes

  75. Posting here because I’m having problems posting on the Nine Clues page…

    Over there, Specialklr wrote: “Scott, the whale riddle is different. Each line gives a different aspect of the solution.”

    Yes, but this is a weak analogy because this riddle requires special knowledge in order to solve it. If you’ve never read the Bible you have no hope, because the answer is entirely dependent on that source material, and is not derivable from the riddle itself, nor other general knowledge.

    So I certainly *hope* Fenn’s poem is self-contained (other than requiring a decent map), and not drawing on some other text for secret knowledge.

    Specialklr continues: “Forrest’s poem is like a map with different way points along the way. These must be arrived at in a specific sequence. We have been told it is a waste of our time to first attempt to locate the blaze.”

    In large part, I agree. But because the poem’s directions are probably deliberately vague by design, they cannot be followed correctly without proper association. Beating a dead horse here, but since WWWH is clearly not a unique starting point, it cannot be considered an actionable waypoint without additional information.

    I think the nine clues must work in concert with one another for any of them to be usable. Maybe not all nine simultaneously, but I’m betting you’ll need the first 3 or 4 working together before you can establish a good starting point.

    • Zaphod,

      You lost me when you wrote this, “If you’ve never read the Bible you have no hope, because the answer is entirely dependent on that source material, and is not derivable from the riddle itself, nor other general knowledge.”

      I am uncertain at best as to what you are trying to infer. I cannot ascertain whether you think the Bible cannot be understood on its own, that there is something about the poem that needs “interpreting” or that there is some kind of correlation between the Bible and the poem, in your opinion, of course.

      Could you please clarify? Thanx!

  76. hi i hope other get to see this i was looking for something and stumble on to this Montana has the nickname the Treasure state. it was even on standard licence plates in the 1960s. then i found this site which tell you all kinds of neat facts about our states
    hope this is hopeful

  77. Willy Wonka

    Just watched Willy Wonka and the Chocolate factory.

    A search for a golden ticket
    The chance of a life time
    Charlie returns the gobstopper
    He is rewarded with the keys to the chocolate factory

    The Chase –

    A search for a chest
    The chance of a lifetime
    Fenn would like an item returned

    Just a weird thought. Then again, my brain has been in “Chase mode” for quite some time. Even the road signs I see seem to find a way to relate to the poem.

    Scott W

    • scott, hunch here. nice thoughts. thanks. I been keepin an eye out for an old silver bracelet with turquoise beads at garage sales and thrift stores to send him. ha ha. has to be cheap though.

      even a toy would do the trick.

      loved that movie. thanks. Charlie Buckets are rare.

  78. I have a question –

    When it came time to buy a new car, how many of you purchased that new vehicle with the “Chase” in mind?

    I did.

    Actually, I bought the truck I always wanted. The Chase helped me justify that decision.

    I’m having so much fun with it, that I am kicking myself for not doing it ten years ago.

    Gone places I had only dreamed of going, and pulled things that I never thought I would.

    Scott W

    • Scott,

      Since you asked, I’ll share my personal experieinces on these matters. (So it’s an opinion based on real life data.)

      My current vehicle is 4WD SUV. It is my first 4WD and I’ll never buy another one. I bought it used with 99,800 mile on it. It now has 187,300 on it and it will be in my possession 9 years next month. When I bought it I had 3 kids still living at home. Now I have none. My primary reasons for buying it was traveresing “the wild” so I wouldn’t get stuck in the woods while hunting with my boys. I have only had to use it once in all that time to help pull a buddy out of a ditch. (He had 4WD and had slid off towing a trailer. I was on good dry ground and had a long snatch strap. I had him out in under 10 minutes.) I have turned it on two or three other times “just in case” but really didn’t need it.

      Granted, my expereiince is mostly “up North” where we get snow and ice and nastier weather seasonally, but I’ve never needed it for snow. As I do more of my driving on pavement, it just isn’t needed for the majority of the driving I do. As it is my “work truck” I plan to drive it one more winter and then I’ll get rid of it. My next truck to be bought in the spring will be another used 2WD with a stick – I really do not like automatics, which this current one is. It probably will be a domestic, and if I can find one, with an extended cab, and short box with a topper.

      Now, to your question – yes, I have given a lot of thought to ensuring my next vehicle can be used in the chase. Because I live at least a full day’s drive from anyplace closely resembling the rockies, it has to be good on the highway, get decent mileage and be dependable for when I get out in the desolate areas. At this pioint, my youmger son and I would have to “live out of it” while camping and searching, so I am thinking about many possible camping/living scenarios, but the most plausible is to find a camper I can throw on the back when I am out and about.

      About that “camper” – I’m thinking about building one of my own that is more like a tall topper with bunks on one side. (Using aluminum stock and sheeting) I’d build it so you would have to stoop over when entering or exiting, but comfortable sitting up eating meals or studying maps. I am pretty sure I do not want to tug a trailer style camper, as that makes it very difficult to get off the pavement. So I know I want a “wide bed” with the fenders inside of the truck bed//box.

      If I do end up building my own, I’ll also wire a deep cycle “battery box” into it so that I can have 12 volt lighting inside that would be charged whenever the truck was running. I’d also plumb a propane tank to a burner of some kind for cooking on. It would have a canopy that rolled out one side for setting up a water station underneath of it for cleaning up gear, etc.

      So yeah, I’ve given it some thought.

      • To each his own, swwot. 🙂

        That is why around here we say IMO.

        Ever since I got my first 4X4, I can’t count the times I’ve said, “Love that four wheel drive.”

        That’s my opinion. 🙂

  79. Scott, Good for you. My last 4 vehicles have been 4wd. Always like the thought of being able to get where most people can’t.

    I’ pulled race cars, UTV’s, a travel trailer and now just me to go find the tc.

    • 4 Wheel drive is so nice… You never know what you will need to pull or when you might need extra traction… We got rid of our 4 Wheel about 3 years ago next vehicle will definitely be 4 Wheel drive we really miss it… And it will be handy for looking for the chest:)

    • Bought it in January, so it’s not quite new any more. The fact that it already has 18,000 miles ought to tell you that I have put it to good use. No – they aren’t commute miles as I only live 10 miles from my office.

      One of the most fun places was the National Seashore in Texas. It’s about 60+ miles of undeveloped beach and you can drive the whole thing. We didn’t, but we did go WAY down the beach.

      The Smitty-Built sand ramps came in handy a couple of times in the softer sand. I highly recommend them.

      Scott W

  80. How does Fenn want any potential find to be handled? For instance does he not mind if the finder discloses the secret location ?


    • Imo, as I think he has mentioned generally, that is up to the finder. It is out of his hands, literally. But I believe he truly would like the bracelet back, as mentioned, and that connection at time of meeting him would have some bearing on final decision on how the finder wants to follow thru on divulging any info about indulgence, aside from him notifying existing blogs and some media of simply that it has been found as has also been mentioned. Also depends on if he is still with us when it is actually found, which I hope he is. I want to meet FF with indulgence in my possession like the masses/searchers likely do.

      It may end up being wise to conceal actual find location, however I would also like to enable others to journey to the location and share the feel to be at the destination of the end of the chase, which is a quest of desire in itself. If you find it, I would like to go and be there after the fact as well.


  81. Last 4wd was an Avalanche. Great for hauling and once pulled a chevy 2500 and a dodge dually out of a mud bog.
    Now I have a 2001 toyota sequoia and love it.

    Not only can you go places but you can sleep in it, if needed. Not bought for the chase but it is a great vehicle for it.

    Next vehicle is going to be a helicopter. The ultimate chase vehicle.

  82. Scott,
    I can say with confidence that we bought our last vehicle with the chase in mind because we were on the chase at the time. On our first search in spring of 2013, our 98 Ford Expedition started having some unknown issues several hundred miles into our journey until we found a place to get her into the air to see what was going on. We had been losing transmission oil from where a chunk of transmission housing metal had broke off around connection to drive shaft. Apparently that was the source of a long time vibration we had been feeling until the “vibration” suddenly disappeared hours away from home on this quest. And ya, the problem did not really just “fix itself” as we had hopefully thought when the sounds of distress magically disappeared (when chunk finally broke off probably) but later developed into massive shuttering of the vehicle at lower speeds.

    Long story, short, we went directly to a car dealership, found a 4×4 off-road pickup truck, left the other truck at the dealership. Came back after our search few days later, and got an auto transporter to haul old truck all the way home with new truck since the sentimental attachment to old truck was still there (especially since she tried to hold on and not leave us stranded in middle of nowhere, we returned the favor). The smart thing would have been to have traded the old expedition in but the decision was made and new truck got her home and we went ahead and got her fixed enough to keep her restricted to within 50 miles of home now, no major excursions; she gets loved traveling gravel roads exploring the local counties looking for some acreage to buy one day if the means become available, I.e. If we ever find the chest could obviously give us a leg up on that, lol.


    • Oh ya forgot to mention, new truck is actually used 60k miles on it, new is way too expensive, wow, can’t believe how expensive vehicles are getting.


    • What a coincidence!!!! Super BAD Karma going on at my house.

      A tree just took out both my old search vehicle and my new search vehicle.

      The sad thing is I have a three car garage that houses stuff other than cars. That’s about to change.

      At least my wife’s car and the 78 Spider are safe and sound.

      Lot’s of unplanned work ahead tomorrow to free the vehicles.

      On the bright side – it’s just metal and plastic. Insurance will cover all repairs.

      I’m beginning to think the truck is cursed. This is the third major incident since I bought it this year. All three times the truck is “not moving”; it just seems to attract objects.

      My wife just nick-named it “The Black Hole”. Anything in close proximity will be sucked in. (It’s black).

      Scott W

      • OMG Scott! Where do you live that trees are falling down on your cars! Hope the damage is minor but the thought of having 2 vehicles damaged is really bad luck. Thank goodness no one was injured.

        • The tree appears very healthy. It just split in half. (the tree grows two different directions at about six feet up).

          I examined where it came loose, and I can only guess that it was just too heavy.

          Damage to the old vehicle is relatively minor (hood, fender, roof damage). I will have to wait until the sun comes up to evaluate the truck as it is completely covered. Just can’t tell yet.

          I guess the bright side is that I get to play with the chain saw tomorrow. Gotta find my hockey mask and dark grey coveralls tonight.

          Scott W

          • I don’t know who Karma is, but maybe send her some flowers and she’ll stop throwing things at you…

          • Thanks to all for the concern and well wishes.

            Everyone is OK at the home of Scott.

            We just have some plastic and metal stuff that we need to separate and extract from the wood and leafy stuff.

            Not too worried – we have insurance on everything we own, do, or touch.

            Amazingly no windows broke. That’s a good thing ( as Martha would say).

            Scott W.

          • My Insurance is awesome. I already have both cars estimated and all is good.

            Old search vehicle damage – $ 1385
            New search vehicle damage – $3980

            Going to save the tree by pruning the remaining portions. Should be back to “awesomeness” in about two years.

            Bad news – since the tree didn’t touch any part of the house, I have to pay for the debris removal. Had it even dented a gutter, all would have been covered.

            Good news – It didn’t hit the house.

            FYI – we broke a record in Austin today. The high was 99 degrees.

            Scott W

      • Sorry to hear of your weird incident!
        If we all lived in the same community, I would be there to give you a hand. Hopefully you will have some physical help and support.
        You have our spiritual support and prayers. 🙂

      • Nice way to spend a Sunday, sorry it had to happen to you, at least everyone’s OK. Trees always seem to be attracted to cars, must be some kinda law.

  83. I was at a gun and knife show today and a gentleman and his mom had a table set up with fossils and rocks.I bought a megladon tooth from him.As I was paying for my item I noticed he had some small bags of what at first glance looked like pieces of antler.I asked about them and he told me the bags contained pieces of mastadon tusk from russia.He was selling them for $50.00 a bag.Not quite as big of a bag of tusk that I recieved from Forrest for the ornament contest.Still very appreciative of the generosity, Forrest.I didn’t buy any russian tusk but I may go back tomorrow and pick some up.I’ve been thinking about it ever since I got home and now I have regret lol.

    • Fins,

      I found a #3 mammoth molar and the tip end of a tusk right here in the Austin area on Walnut Creek. We’ve found hundreds of fossils, arrowheads and knife points.

      Our trick – wait for a huge rain. Then wait for a moderate rain.

      The big rain mixes up the creek beds. The moderate rain washes out the debris and cleans up the search area.

      It works.

      Also, when we are driving out in west Texas (or wherever), we often pull over at wash areas and poke around. You would be surprised at what you might find.

      $50 bucks a bag! I would spend more than that just in gas with only the hopes to find one. I suggest you snatch it up. It’s not like ivory – nothing dies for your purchase.

      Scott W

      • That is awesome,Q1.What a find! In my area I can find arrowheads once in a while when the farmers plow fields.Can’t wait to try after a good rainstorm.Thans for the tip on that.I went back to the show today and bought a bag of tusk! purchased another megladon tooth and he gave me an extra package of tusk, no charge!

      • Q, Just curious, did you find it in limestone? I use to work in the streams around Austin and was often finding stuff in the limestone.

        I also maintained 24 recording rain gauges, and the last storm I processed had 12 of them showing 13 inches in 25 minutes. That rearranged a few creek beds. That would’ve been around 1985 iirc. Lot’s of VW’s floating in town lake.

  84. How far has your copy of The Thrill of the Chase traveled?

    I keep mine in my backpack along with my computer. It goes to work with me every day.

    My book has been to Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, San Francisco, Santa Fe, (other search areas), DC, Richmond, Atlanta, Columbus (GA), Birmingham, Huntsville, Amsterdam, Paderborn, Utrecht, Frankfurt, Pensacola, Gulf Shores, Hattiesburg, New Orleans, and everywhere in-between and then some.

    I’m wondering if there are others who might have such a well traveled copy.

    I have no idea why I thought about this. It just came to mind.

    Scott W

  85. Congrats to, Cloudcover on her winning advice entry.I’m a little jealous of her fabulous prize.

        • Congrats to all the winners – there were many good examples of “bad” advice! Scott, my vote for you probably was the one that moved you up to 3rd place. 🙂

        • Scott- 2nd place here. Got mine too! It is amazing to hold and imagine who made this 500 years or so ago. I wonder how the colored marking have stayed so intact and that they haven’t worn off.

          This will make a nice piece for a pendant for a necklace, like the one Dal has. For those who haven’t seen his I hope he puts a picture of it here on the blog, it’s beautiful! Thanks Dal!

  86. Congratulations to the winners. The rest of us all have the chance to work at a company with unlimited vacation days! Just think of all the adventures we could go on around the world!

  87. It was great to wake up to the words First Place Winner this morning! Thank you to all who voted for me. I was only expecting my entry to get only one vote, mine so I was very surprised. I don’t think I’ve won anything since that T-shirt from orientation at UNM in ’85. Thank you to all and congratulations to the 2nd and 3rd place winners too!

    • Congratulations on your win Cloud; I thought your story was great and hopefully a bit of wisdom for other searchers.

      • I know! Why would I take such advice from my sons, I’m still asking myself. But I was the adult and I stood by myself in the courtroom without my advice givers. Had to drive five hours or was it longer from Farmington to Raton to be in court by 9 or 10 am to explain my behavior. Judge was quite interested in my treasure hunting activities.

        • Maybe Mr. Fenn will slip in a $!00 for gas money because of driving to and from court. Definitely the best “bad.”

          • Well, it turned out not to be just about court.after court I met my sister in Cimmarron at the St James. She had procured a couple of rooms in the historic section. Mine was right next to the ghost room. The one they don’t rent out. Went searching the next day. Couldn’t pass up the opportunity of being in my search area and not search. Didn’t go around any locked gates this time.

  88. Congratulation Cloudcover on winning first place! And to you Q1werty2 for third!
    I am thrilled to take 2nd, thanks to all who voted for me…or should I say thanks to Forrest for the advice! lol Thanks Forrest! I am happy to receive a bit of history in the sherd of pottery. Thanks Dal!!

  89. I am going to suggest Dal and Goofy add a “Search Everything” link on this blog. As it is the “Search The Blog” searches words in the “Posts” but not the “Comments”. I see so many comments from readers asking for links to things that are always found in “Comments” made on this site but they do not show up when you “Search The Blog”. They could be two separate search boxes…

    • That search function is available by using Google “advanced search”. I have almost always found what I was looking for using that function. That way Dal and Goof will have one less duty–and might just have some time to do some fruitful “thinking”. Everyone needs a few quiet moments to just think……

    • hey mark i have been working on my own list of web sites on all the nines clues blog. i am up to part 28 i think, i will need to spend several more weeks cleaning it up , finishing the work etc. i do not copy links that have funny pics or videos of music that are not part of a clues etc. places that are missing i list and mark not not there. so the content can be search in another way. i then plan to go through the scrap book pages and do the same. wish me luck getting this finished big headache.

  90. Congratulations to the three winners of the bad advice contest !! And thank you Dal, for all the work you did on it……Appreciated very much…..it was fun.

  91. A list for Newbies –

    As your adventure is just beginning perhaps I can give a few pointers on what to do and what to avoid as you start in the chase. If you do these things early on – I think it will save you time in the long run. I wish someone would have done this for me – but we were all new then. 🙂

    Read the book, then read the poem over and over, then go back thru the book slowly looking for hints.

    Keep copious notes – decide how you are going to do that –

    I like plain white paper – it allows me a freedom to draw – trace and place things where I want – not where the lines tell me.

    Keep like things together – for instance –
    FF quotes
    to do list
    junk file (don’t throw any notes away – you’ll
    be sorry)

    Organize your favorites to fit with the chase –

    You might want to read about what it takes to be a good detective.

    You might want to read about other treasure hunts and how they where solved.

    Avoid taking what others are saying on the blogs as fact – check it out yourself. Many times things are taken out of context and really very true – but it it changes the entire meaning.

    Read Goofy’s cheat sheet – it’s a good one

    Use you intuition (that gut feeling) and imagination – backed up with facts.

    Be inventive – find ways to narrow down a good search area – and a starting point. Without the right starting point – you have nothing.

    Do extensive research on the clues/hints you do find. Most info is available on the internet.

    Know that Forrest made this chase not only for adults but also for children – so if your research is taking you into dark and terrible places – you are most likely wrong.

    Ask questions on the blogs. You might get a good answer. There is no such thing as a stupid question.

    Do extensive research on the area you find. Are there old treasures already buried there? Where the indians there? What did the old timers do – who where they and what did they do? What where their names. Was there major flooding in the area. What are the hidden secrets?

    What is there – is there a city nearby – are there clues to the city? Is there a song about the area?

    Learn how to use the internet to it’s full capabilites. Learn how to use Google Earth. Learn how to use the way back machine. The best part is, all these things are free.

    Is there a theme to the chase?

    Leave no stone unturned – but pls put it back.

    Later on – when you have a good start point –
    Get a topo map of your entire area – if your not really serious – you can
    forget this one. 🙂

    I would like to add this is just a few of the things I have done and it is not in any way to be taken as the only way to do this – just a few things that may be helpfull and is totally my opinion.

    Happy Hunting and most of all Have Fun !

    • @intheschaseto good advise/sharing Has you search area changed sense you first started? In other words had you started in one state but now search another area or even returned to your first area after exploring, another area. Did the release of TFTW change or strengthen your solve/search idea area? Do you put much stock in the scrape books? Have you ever thought you might be one of the ones who ff mentions of having been close? Thanks!

      • Hi Cholly –

        OK there ya go………..

        My spot has never changed.

        TFTW has not done much for me. I don’t have it.

        The scrape books are great for hints – but only if you are in the right place. But, I would not know if they are miss leading to other places – as I have not been there. They probably would be – but I put no time into finding that out. I do believe that most of the scrape books have hints – maybe a couple don’t – but I just might have missed the hint as there ARE SO MANY HINTS.

        I really don’t need FF to tell me I’m close. In fact, I stopped e-mailing him a long while ago so no one could ever accuse either of us of any type of collusion. He was always so nice – but never gave me a usable hint.

        • Thanks! I’m reading SB’s now, started at number one and up to 51 now, takes a lot longer than I’d imagined what with all the comments and links along the way! It’s interesting to see who all was searching and posting on the blogs in 2013 and still at it today, can sort of see the evolution of the various topics such as Nine Clues. There was a lot of open and off topic chatter back then on the SB’s, pre Nuk days! lol! IMO! P.S. In your notes did you ever notice ff mentioning he had a friend from San Antonio who owned newspapers and magizines? I read or heard this but can’t find it now….nothing to do with solving, more human interest as a family relative fits this description!

    • Inthechaseto AMEN! KEEP A JUNK FOLDER.i tossed something and two yrs later still cant find it.

  92. Forgive me if this has already been hashed out. I know the olives and olive jar have been discussed before but in my searches of the blog, I didn’t see any posts like this.

    In TTOTC, chapter titled First Grade, Forrest writes “Sometimes John Charles would bring a little jar of green olives to school and wave that thing in my face. Can you imagine that? It was one of those long thin jars with a green lid and the olives looked like they were placed in there one at a time. What was that all about anyway?”

    The way I see it, this is an example of the hints throughout the book. He makes a statement and then asks “What was that all about anyway?” It’s like he’s telling us “heads up, here’s a hint, you just have to figure it out or STRING it together if you will.

    So when I Google “John Charles green olives” I see a book titled, John Charles Fremont, trail marker of the Old West (January 21, 1813-July 13, 1890) written by Olive Woolley Burt

    I actually see several hints just by Googling that. Forrest is an expert at tieing a lot of hints into a small amount of information. I don’t want to write a book here so I’m not going to cover them all.

    What I am going to cover is that Olive Woolley Burt also wrote a book called Sacajawea. Now we know that’s important because although Forrest is not talking directly about Sacajawea, she is mentioned in 3 of his scrapbooks as subtle hints. I know a lot of people don’t believe there’s hints, I’m not here to convince you other wise. However, these are not random connections. 3 scrapbooks! It’s like he’s SCREAMING it at us!


    I’m not saying you can’t solve the poem without this information. I am firm believer that all you need is the poem. But what I am saying is that this is an example of how Forrest has left hints in the TTOTC. Research the books he has named, and the people he has written about. That’s where the hints are.

    • Ramona,
      I agree. I found that book a while back and bought it, but haven’t read it yet. I probably need to! 🙂

    • You researchers do impressive work,and I really appreciate your exposing what you find (I would never find this stuff) , but I tend to think these are gifts from Fenn are to enrich us but they do not necessarily lead to the TC. The man is a teacher by nature, he walks in his fathers shoes. Bless all teachers.

  93. Forgive me if this has already been hashed out. I know the olives and olive jar have been discussed before but in my searches of the blog, I didn’t see any posts like this.

    In TTOTC, chapter titled First Grade, Forrest writes “Sometimes John Charles would bring a little jar of green olives to school and wave that thing in my face. Can you imagine that? It was one of those long thin jars with a green lid and the olives looked like they were placed in there one at a time. What was that all about anyway?”

    The way I see it, this is an example of the hints throughout the book. He makes a statement and then asks “What was that all about anyway?” It’s like he’s telling us “heads up, here’s a hint, you just have to figure it out or STRING it together if you will.

    So when I Google “John Charles green olives” I see a book titled, John Charles Fremont, trail marker of the Old West (January 21, 1813-July 13, 1890) written by Olive Woolley Burt

    • I actually see several hints just by Googling that. Forrest is an expert at tieing a lot of hints into a small amount of information. I don’t want to write a book here so I’m not going to cover them all.

      What I am going to cover is that Olive Woolley Burt also wrote a book called Sacajawea. Now we know that’s important because although Forrest is not talking directly about Sacajawea, she is mentioned in 3 of his scrapbooks as subtle hints. I know a lot of people don’t believe there’s hints, I’m not here to convince you other wise. However, these are not random connections. 3 scrapbooks! It’s like he’s SCREAMING it at us!


      I’m not saying you can’t solve the poem without this information. I am firm believer that all you need is the poem. But what I am saying is that this is an example of how Forrest has left hints in the TTOTC. Research the books he has named, and the people he has written about. That’s where the hints are.

    • I actually see several hints just by Googling that. Forrest is an expert at tieing a lot of hints into a small amount of information. I don’t want to write a book here so I’m not going to cover them all.

    • What I am going to cover is that Olive Woolley Burt also wrote a book called Sacajawea. Now we know that’s important because although Forrest is not talking directly about Sacajawea, she is mentioned in 3 of his scrapbooks as subtle hints. I know a lot of people don’t believe there’s hints, I’m not here to convince you other wise. However, these are not random connections. 3 scrapbooks! It’s like he’s SCREAMING it at us!


    • What I am going to cover is that Olive Woolley Burt also wrote a book called Sacajawea. Now we know that’s important because although Forrest is not talking directly about Sacajawea, she is mentioned in 3 of his scrapbooks as subtle hints. I know a lot of people don’t believe there’s hints, I’m not here to convince you other wise. However, these are not random connections. 3 scrapbooks! It’s like he’s screaming it at us!

      • Ramona,

        Imagine that Fenn was unable to communicate, in any way, the day after the book was released.

        How would you go about solving the poem?

        Scott W

        • hey Scott, hunch here. i know your question was for Ramona, I feel like butting in. heres how i would solve the poem…

          first I’d find me some warm water in a pool.
          then, I’d follow the creek from it going lower in elevation. passing the home of Brown, I’d keep following that creek on foot. camp out and keep going the next day. I’d be wise and find the blaze, take the chest and go. I’d record the adventure by taking lots of pictures of me and my family and put them together in a scrapbook when i get home. along with all the neat rocks, funny shaped sticks,bones,old trash i found. I think FF would say our trip produced a treasure. If he was talking to us.

    • I’m not saying you can’t solve the poem without this information. I am firm believer that all you need is the poem. But what I am saying is that this is an example of how Forrest has left hints in the TTOTC. Research the books he has named, and the people he has written about. That’s where the hints are.

      • Sorry you had trouble Ramona. I approved your comments earlier, but I wanted to let you know what was going on. If a comment has more than two links it automatically gets thrown into moderation. This is to cut down on the spam bots, which typically put several links into a comment.

        • Thank you Goofy. I’m the dork who made a mess of it. Should have just waited for your approval. Good to know about the links. I won’t try to do that again.

  94. Ramona, Sacajawea, I think, is relayed to a hint towards Lewis and Clark. F was a big fan of them!
    Have you read “Trailer Marker of the old West”? I have not…yet!
    Try Osborne Russell Journal of a Trapper, like F suggested.
    Alot of blaze references in these books!

    • Yes, I think you are right. I have not read the selection In quotations above. But I did read Journal of a Trapper. More than one hint there.

  95. I think many of FF’s “hints” present opportunities to gain more colorful and often deeper insights into subjects one might not give a second thought to.

    More recently; I’ve discovered that Hummingbirds & Dragonflies ‘really’ are fascinating and wondrous creatures!

    Higher education comes in many forms ~

  96. I wonder if Sotheby’s or a a private party has already been in contact with him?

    Kinda nice if he remembers the folks he bought it from in some way.

  97. Speaking of rarity, I imagine that the entire treasure is more “valuable” together, as a collection. And I would not be surprised if that idea puts a smile on M Fenn’s face.

  98. If whoever finds the TC and should return the turquoise bracelet to FF, would it compromise the collections “value” as a whole? – On the other hand; If it’s not found during Forrests’s lifetime, and unless a family member requests it; this could become a mute issue.

    • SL –

      I don’t think it would compromise the collection as the “request” was part of the “deal” – leaving it in tact as agreed. His family Imo is not involved in the chase and would have no claim.

      • SL and inthechaseto – IMO, the 22 bead turquoise bracelet is just a metaphor for lets make a deal, let’s exchange what you have for what I want.

        The objects and deal are flexible, not just the items presented in photos. He’s a collector ya’ll.

        • You offer a good perspective, 23kachinas; FF is “a collector” after all.

          “Everything is negotiable.”

    • SL, Why would it compromise the “collections” value as a whole.

      I’m no expert by any means, but the items within the chest don’t seem to have any correlation to each other. Eagle Coins, Columbia necklace, Emerals Diamond, gold nuggets, 1150ad chest etc.

      What brings more value to the actual items themselves is the story behind them… the challenge itself. The turquoise bracelet is just another piece of personal possession of the one who hid it all… raising the value over all. IMO

      Face value to over all value, along with the story behind it is what will control the outcome of the whole thing. Again IMO.

      The interesting part about the Value of this is not the stock market, or collectible value. The fact that there is a bio contained with the reason why this was done, who the person was, what it was like in this time period etc. maybe more valuable as time goes on then all the other items put together.

      • I thought there was a big correlation between the items in the chest.

        Sounds exactly like what a pirate would place in chest. Awesome things that will make you laugh when opened. I wonder if he put a pirate in the chase and who that would be…………hum That would be fun for kids and adults alike.

  99. I wonder if the future will know the term “Fenn scholar” once this thing is done and all is revealed. There’s certainly enough layers in all of this for a dissertation. In addition to all of the cleverly woven details of “the chase” there are other narratives that include the societal and personal contexts leading to its creation and the national and international response. Just a thought.

  100. I would like to touch on the opinion about the map, and the golden frog and gold nuggets on TTOTC book. What do you guys think it is? Does it represent the exact area where the treasure is? I think it does. Are we looking for 3 big rocks, or something else? What about that frog? What does it mean? RC.

    • NM state amphibian is the Spade Foot Toad (look at it… look at frogs feet on Fenns jars) …. just an affirmation of NM on the NM map.

    • RC / there are three gold nuggets representing rocks in front…the coin represents a hole…the other gold nugget is a rock that looks like an alligator head behind the other rocks….yes I’d say that is where the gold is.

      • Close earth, I see on p. 133 the three rocks and then the alligator looking one. Then there is the frog and a 1/4 of the coin showing. You think the coin is where the hole is? Would that mean that the chest is buried? Or do you think that the frog is pointing to the hole between one rock and the alligator head? I just can’t figure out if the frog needs to “jump over the rock into the hole” or if the chest is buried where the coin is. I am tired of turning over rocks and moving dirt. And it is getting rather cold to freezing!

        • Obviously I am not Close Earth but I can say, In my guessing around, that something might be found inside the coin and it may not be the chest but it might be the key.

    • RC, interesting. Why would you say three big rocks? I see four pieces of gold not three. I will compare it to my pics of my spot. Interesting where the fog is pointed and the gold coin. Hmmm food for thought.

    • If you look carefully at the frog, and again at it when photographed in the chest you can see it’s “loop arms” (sorry best word I can think of) and also the mark where it’s head has worn the metal of the locking mechanism plate. So you can see how it mechanically would fit together with the top piece of the clasp which is still connected to the lid. My best guess is frog makes a statement about “architecture” and “knowledge” while the woman on the top Of the lock and the blurry map make a statement about “imagination” for whatever that’s worth. The same prevalent part of a clue/theme as the characters on the jars just my guess though.

      • The date on the coin is odd. The space between the 9 & 0 is too large and the 0 looks like a C and the last looks like a couple of dots. I believe it is a Liberty head $20 gold piece for what it may be worth

  101. The Pinyon Pine is also the State Tree of New Mexico – All roads continue to lead me back to “The Land of Enchantment.”

    It would be difficult to visualize the “heart & soul” of this fascinating human being that is Forrest Fenn; anywhere else on the “map.”

    A heart and its treasures….. belong where they truly need to be ~

  102. Could there be a rough predictive formula to keep track of the value of the Fenn’ s treasure as the years go by? Because I believe the value of the treasure have increased from the time
    Fenn put it back in 2009/2010.This is mainly because the value of gold has soared in recent years,,,added to that the wide fame the treasure has got in the media will also contribute to the antique value of the treasure…I wonder what it is worth today…the estimates given here and there are estimates from 5 years ago…


    • The entire chest as a whole may now be a “collectible”, which may boost it’s perceived value.

    • The spot price of gold is actually pretty close to where it was at the time Fenn hid the treasure — in the $1100-$1200/oz range. Now 3-4 years ago it was worth quite a bit more — up to a high of around $1900/oz. Of course, Fenn’s gold is worth quite a bit more than just the melt value; there is numismatic value in the coins above their gold content, and large placer nuggets are rare and so also command a premium above their weight.

  103. TRIVIA: pronunciation
    SUBJECT: Absaroka Range in Wyoming and Montana

    Just looking at “Absaroka”, my internal voice says ab.sa.RO.ka
    But I went to a presentation today about Pleistocene and current [read: Anthropocene] alpine glaciation in the northern Rocky Mountains.

    The research, I learned, was conducted in part in the ab.SA.ro.ka range.

  104. If the treasure were to be buried underground, would we need a metal detector, and or, a gps, or am I wrong in thinking this? RC

  105. Hi RC, I just remember forrest saying that ‘it might help” I think the chest is “underwood” and that is why it is “wet” IMO

    Lou Lee, from whoville

  106. If anybody is interested Douglas Preston will be at the LaFonda tonight talking about highlights from the Honduras “Has the Monkey God been Revealed” . What an adventure, wish I could go. More info on Pasatiempo. Cost is $10.

    • My friends and I attended this event as well as the afterparty at La Fonda…we all should be thrilled that Forrest didn’t hide the treasure chest in a similar rain forest infested with deadly fer-de-lance snakes and potentially lethal parasites. For anyone who is interested, Doug Preston’s account of this expedition is in this month’s National Geographic. Listening and reading about the team’s discovery of the Lost City of the Monkey God in Honduras helps me understand the awe that Forrest must have experienced when he found his first arrow head, and all his later discoveries, especially during his excavation of San Lazaro. cynthia

  107. Here’s an odd one. I remember learning that after Skippy’s death he was burred with his parents in Temple Tx. However now I can’t confirm this. Did I imagine it?


    • Yiga-
      I shared that piece of info with the blog when someone asked where Skippy was interred. Forrest gave me that info one day when we were discussing Skippy’s death and Forrest’s heartbreaking trip to retrieve his brother’s body.

    • Yoga, I kinda remember something about that I think you might be right.. If so then you did not imagine it… I will try to do some more research on it…. Let you know what I find out…

  108. geese are oftentimes mean and ornery. i’d hate to have come across one of prehistoric proportions

  109. Spallies mentioned yesterday, today marks 5 years from the release of TTOTC.
    Congratulations forrest! You must be proud and pleased!
    And, thank you. 🙂

  110. Has anyone noticed the map location Mr. Fenn put his gold frog/nuggets/coin on the New Mexico map in TTOTC is the SAME location his finger is pointing in the photo of him with the Food Initiatives map?
    It’s certainly not the treasure location, and probably not a clue, but…

  111. As I was pondering about the chest , I did a few calculations and thought that I would share them with everyone. This defiantly fits the ODD of Odds and Ends. So be it, the rambling mind of unsuccessful (so far) hunter.

    There are 461,577 square land miles in the four states. Looking at the map in TFTW, I estimated that about a third of Montana, two thirds of Wyoming, half of Colorado and about an eighth of New Mexico are in the serch area ( wild guesses if you will, this is NOT scientific).
    That makes the search area about 179,093 square miles, take out 10 % for buildings and roads that would not be included that leaves 161,184 square miles or 53,922,819,009,046 square inches to search. Indugence is 100 Square inches, so the chest makes up about .00000000000001845% of the search area.

    My calculations may be off a good bit, and a lot of you could do it precisely, but why? Just IMO. It won’t help you find the chest but it might make it a little easier to understand why you didn’t find it. We are looking for a pin POINT in a haystack if you will.
    Have a good laugh if you will! Yes, I have a mind that wonders off in strange directions at times, why else would I spend so much time looking for a treasure chest that might not be found for a thousand years. Would someone hurry and find it so I can get back to a nearer normal life!
    Thanks for reading. Have fun hunting and stay safe! Winter snows can get deep quick.

  112. Greetings gang,

    Hoping to gain some insight from this great panel of posters concerning fly fishing. Even though my in-laws have a cabin on a lake, I drown worms – I’m not much of a fisherperson, by any stretch of the imagination. As a kid, if we went fishing we carried our poles and tickled the trout. If Forrest was a guide, just what does that mean? Does that mean he caught the fish for the person being guided? Does it mean he sits on the bank as a cheerleader? Just what does a fly fishing guide do? And what makes a good one, as opposed to a bad one? Is it the number of fish caught, or the “tougher” the fish is to land? For example, my in-laws cabin is on a Muskie lake in Northern Wisconsin and folks catch hammer handles (young pike) and small mouth bass out of it all the time. Muskies are the catch of note, if you believe the sports section of the local paper near the cabin. Are there “tougher” or more difficult kinds of trout to catch with a fly rod? Does a good guide show you how to get those kinds of trout? And that all leads up to, are the tougher kinds of trout only found in a certain kind of water? Muskies are not able to live in just any lake, there are parameters as to were they will survive and thrive. I suspect that’s true for some kinds of trout as well. So what kind of trout would a good fishing guide help me to be able to land? Are some trout “more desirable” than others? If so, where do they live?

    Thanx in advance for any info anyone could lend.

    • swwot –

      What makes a good guide? Someone you can have fun with and a good teacher – or perhaps someone to hook everything up for you and hand you the rod….. just depends on what the customer wants……. a good fishing guide should be able show you how to catch any kind of fish you wanted with in a certain area.

      My favorite fish to catch are brook trout – generally found in small streams. I find them good eating and a challenge as they are easily spooked – even by your foot steps on the bank and certainly by a shadow on the stream. Next best to catch would be a five lb brown — they fight a little better than a rainbow. A fish of that size would generally be caught in a lake. Rainbows are the most stocked fish of all and the most fished of the trout in the rocky mountains.

    • Well SWWOT, I think you might want to trade in a ‘good’ guide to a ‘wise’ guide. Then you may get somewhere! The wise know where to to and where to be in order to catch the desired treat or treasure of fish.

    • Thanx to all that have replied thus far. For clarification’s sake, I’m not wanting to catch fish but gain insight into the man, Forrest Fenn. What makes a good fly fishing guide? The ability to cook a great “shore lunch”? Or is it something else? I guess I’d like to hear from any fly fisher-persons for what they look for in a guide, if there are any on this blog.

      • I am not a fly fisherman, but I have done a lot of fishing. I have never hired a guide, but if I ever did it would be to be taken to the good fishing spots. So, in my opinion, a good fishing guide would be a person who knows the good fishing spots in the area.

  113. SWWOT, I’m not a trout fisher, but I found a lot of good information online when researching FF. There are a lot of web sites that give a lot of good info, try searching fly fishing in Montana, Wyoming, the rockeis etc. Good luck. IMO a good guide will get you to the right area and give advice to flies/lures to use and how to work them. They should know the

  114. A good guide will know the spots and pools on a river where the big trout hang. He will instruct on the type of cast to be made and will know what bug/fly/creepy crawler is hatching at certain times of the year. A really good guide, like Fenn, will tie flies that match the hatch on certain spots of the river. You almost need to be an entomologist.

    He will also instruct the angler on how to bring in and net the fish in the least invasive way.

    2 weeks ago on the Rio Grande I caught a small mouth bass, 3 browns and an 18 inch cutthroat all on the same lure. The cutthroat is the most voracious, then brown and rainbow. All provide a good fight. IMO.

  115. Most trout are opportunity eaters. You will see them waiting in the shadows, weeds or behind boulders waiting for a bug, cricket, worm or fly to come with the current or land on the surface.

    They face into the current waiting for something tasty. They have great eyesight and can spot you before you spot them. I have seen a fisherman in full gear, waders, vest, hat and an 8 foot rod, crawling on his hands and knees to get to a choice spot on the river.

    Many sport fisherman either fly or lure fish using the lightest weight line and lures in hopes of hooking a big one that dances across the surface of the water.

    My daughter agreed to go on a 2nd trip with me if we did more hiking and less fishing. So I woke up before she did. 🙂

  116. I am curious about something that I find odd. Supposedly FF will know when someone finds the TC. The only way I can think of how this is, is if FF placed a GPS tracking device in the TC and therefore if/when someone finds it and takes it home he will be able to track it. Any thoughts on this possibility? If I am right about a tracking device being in that TC it’s probably in the sealed jar with his memoirs. Just a random thought, I’m bored at work and still have 1 hour before I am off for the weekend.

    • @bookworm, this topic pops up every now and then….100 years or more from now it won’t much matter…..there is a possible note in the TC from ff to contact him for an additional 100K if he remembered to place the note in the TC! Please don’t ask where I read this info, I didn’t write it down, maybe in the earlier Scrapbooks….I’m only up to #75 right now, takes a long time to read all the comments and look at the various links along the way. I’m still trying to find where Dal mentions his WWWH location! Some day….

    • When I saw that, the first thought was that the treasure chest was so heavy the earth gave way under its weight. LOL I hope it didn’t fall to the bottom!
      On a more serious note, it also reminded me of the giant landslide several years ago that did so much damage and killed several people, the whole side of the mountain or large hill gave way. I don’t remember where but I think it was in the North West area.

  117. I had a curious thought today. We know that Forrest won the bracelet in a pool game….but what did he stand to lose if he lost?

  118. This puzzle is quite complex but the final solution will be so clear that you will not need to search the country side for the treasure. It will be clearly spelled out in my opinion. My interpretation of the first line of the poem is the frame or backbone of the solve. ASI is a reference to and air speed indicator and a loan is also a clue. Both refer to a logarithmic function and the template for the solve. A spiral solution would provide both an artistic and mathematical form. There are 1000 characters to be mapped including the data provided in the poem. The rest of the data is also embedded in the poem but requires clue interpretation to fill it out or solution of the keys in the chapter titles. Excel can be used to manipulate and plot the data in a spiral.

    • And I was fearing the solve would be 9 words pasted on a rubics’ cube. 9 words on each side. Spin it so the message moving right to left and bottom to top etc. But Andy you scare me even worse if the solve involves whatever it is you are saying. I’ll have to think about what you’ve said awhile longer.

      Hope you are able to produce good results and find the chest Andy. Good luck

  119. 5000ft…….500 0 ft……500 0 rit,,,,,,,500 0 writ…..500 0 written…….500 not written. There is more to the poem than is written. It has nothing to do with elevation imo

  120. re: something in the chest that Forrest KNOWS when found, he will know

    I recently read an old ff quote that had me convinced (again) that Forrest would know FOR SURE if it was found…..is there something in the chest that somehow will cause Forrest to know it has been found……?

    does anyone know where in this blog relevant discussions are? I drew a blank……what could that thing be????

    something in a trust (as opposed to the very large check idea)?

    something so incredibly rare it would be instant national news when someone went to have it appraised?

    a deadly virus? haha

    • Joseph, I may be wrong but maybe you are thinking of his idea of putting a $100,000 check or an IOU in the chest but decided against it because if the chest wasn’t found for a 1000 years his bank would no longer exist and it would be worthless. I think he said he couldn’t remember if he put it in the chest or not. This is off the top of my head. I think he also said somewhere that there is something secret in the chest for the finder as well. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

      • Oops, I see you already knew of the large check idea. I did find his quote about something special in the chest for the finder on Jenny Kile’s site:

        Are there any objects placed in the Bronze Chest that are connected, or have meaning to the place the chest is hidden? ~ Mike


        No Mike, everything in the chest is straight forward and visual, except my autobiography, which some might find dull. Oops, I forgot, there is one thing in the chest that I have not talked about except to say I don’t want to talk about it. It is something saved especially for the person who solves the clues. I think that person will be pleased when she sees it. f

        Also, there are things like the necklace in the chest that are probably unique and would attract attention if they surfaced somewhere. IMO.

        • maybe the chest is on a private property owned by FF and the title to the property is in the chest.

    • Hi all ,
      Good question !

      I looked into this . I found that there is a such piece of gear that you can transmit a signal long range. Sorry I can’t remember what the equipment was call . But I think it is a Weather proof data transmitter.

      And If I remember right it has a signal that reaches 20 miles or so .

      • Well realistically it might only need to transmit 8.5 miles… 🙂 I wonder if they have ones that are solar powered so you would not have to worry about charging the battery… I don’t think he put an electronic tracking device in it to many things could break or stop working then he would have to go fix it or replace it… Didn’t he say something like he was not going to go back there? I think it is something that cannot break that will ensure the searcher will contact Forrest and let him know they found the chest… Imo

        • Mike, Spallies and others,

          While Forrest might be into “gizmos”, my guess is that there are no electrical/electronic devices in proximity to the treasure. An RF chip placed subcutaneously helps us keep track of our pets and are in the credit cards and passports. They are all passive and need to be in proximity to a reader.

          I don’t think there is a trip switch/dead man switch either to set off an alarm of some kind if the chest is disturbed in any way. That just doesn’t strike me as something Forrest would do.

          More likely, there are directions inside the chest to get in touch with him or his heirs to let them know it has been found.

          Of course, this is all my opinion of the matter as I have thought a bit about it.

      • With a large enough budget, you can set up a trail cam anywhere there is cell coverage, hook it up to solar power, and you’re all set. It will email you snap shots.

        I don’t think this is a likely scenario, just mentioning it’s technically feasible.

        Any sort of camera would require maintenance, though.

          • Jeremy, I thought a trail cam was a possibility quite some time ago, especially in one of the scrapbooks he showed us a picture taken with a trail cam in his back yard of a coyote, I think, or maybe it was a fox? Anyway, I always thought it interesting that he would post that.

          • That’s cool, Jeremy. I wonder how many orders that company has received with delivery addresses close to the border with Mexico or in Mexico.

            After all, it can carry whatever “payload” a person wants to put into it…and it has a distance range of almost 3 miles with a fresh battery. All a person would have to do is remove the payload…perhaps put in another payload (cash?)…put in a fresh battery and send it back. Perfect system! Ain’t technology great?

            This could all be done under the cover of darkness…where the border is considered to be very “secure” and not patrolled as much as other places.

          • 10 minutes isn’t too bad for something of this size. The leading drone only gets about 20. They all have diminishing returns if fighting heavy winds.

            The limit is mostly about battery weight. I’ve got a little quadcopter that gets about 7 minutes of flight time. It’s limited by RC distance, so maybe 4-600 ft or so, but if there wasn’t a connection limit I could probably get it a mile or two away in 7 minutes.

            But the trick is to carry spare batteries and swap them out.

        • CJinCA, That fox picture is in SB 20. And I agree, it was interesting that he posted that. I wonder what it could mean. Maybe hinting at the capabilities of these outdoor cameras. Who knows…

          • I remember seeing an outdoor photograph either in one of his books or Scrapbook that had three very well hidden cameras all aimed at the same location on the ground. I’m not sure what type of cameras they were, but they were certainly there. I interpreted that photo as meaning the chest is covered by some type of surveillance. I had to look at the photo a long time before I saw the first one, then I finally saw the other two. I was kind of blown away when I lined up the lines of sight and they all intersected at the same point on the ground. I wish I had made a note of where that photo is, but I’ll bet someone else knows. This, of course is all my opinion.

          • Wow Robert, I don’t remember ever seeing anything like that but if the story around the picture was about a hat or about blazes on trees etc, I probably didn’t look at the background for trail cameras. If you ever find the picture, just out of curiosity I’d be interested in seeing it!

          • Thanks Wiseone! I’m one of those people that believe Forrest’s scrapbooks may contain hints for us – we just have to figure out what they are. 🙂

    • I can answer that Crowfeast; Here’s the hits by year.

      2015–2,999,342 (so far)

      It’s changed much over time. We get more hits in one day, on many days, than we got in a year when Dal started. Lots of research going on; which is a good thing.

      A little more trivia; as of now we have a total of 105,968 comments.

      • A tribute to Dal & Goofy ‘s efforts to make this a civil watering hole. Thanks guys.

        Also a noteworthy statement about the “virtual community”. Thanks to all you as well.

      • I’m curious about world-wide reach if you wanted to share the country numbers from Google Analytics for the year.

      • Jeremy, on any given day we get hits from all over the world. The only typical numbers are the US is usually 92% to 94% of the hits, and Canada is usually 2% to 4%. After that it varies widely; I’m guessing it depends on the media stories that run in each country. Here’s the totals in percentage for the past month. Like I said this is not typical and next month may be completely different.

        1. United States–92.16%

        2. Canada–3.10%

        3. United Kingdom–1.28%

        4. Australia–0.46%

        5. Portugal–0.21%

        6. India 0.20%

        7. Germany–0.17%

        8. Ireland–0.17%

        9. New Zealand–0.14%

        10. Norway–0.13%

        @Cholly: If you checked in on the same page then it would only count for one hit. If you looked at 4 different pages then it would be 4 hits. We have several thousand members; but some try to post under different names so I don’t really know how many “real” commenters there are. Very few of the folks that visit the blog leave a comment. If I notice someone arguing with themselves, different name but same IP or email address I’ll block them.

  121. Good Morning All! Raining in N. CaIf. Goofy, If check in 4 times a day is that 4 hits or is it based on my ISPN per day? I don’t subscribe so much as just check in and glance over at latest topics and latest post, take a peak at what ole so and so has to say, etc. What is the total number of ‘handles’ or member/names would be interesting to know? Ditto what Joseph Jones says! Thanks!

    • Cholly, last year I started a spread sheet and I had about 500 names, some could be same person using different names. I went back a couple of years on some links, but I sure there were a lot that I missed early on. I also stopped adding names earlier this summer. Its quite obvious that hundreds are posting and many times that that don’t post. I sent the list to Dal to see if he could set up a link for everyone to log in and put there names in and share personal in if they wanted, He said that managing a site like that would be too time consuming and I don’t blame him for not attempting it. Any geek types want to start a new site for searcher names and info?

      • N.O. Good Morning All, I did the bio intro that Dal created and shared my personal email ady, so far one searcher has written to me and I gave them a great tip on a link for jobs teaching English in Thailand so they are stoked. I’m not shy! I’m thinking a lot of searchers haven’t even seen the new link and a few that have didn’t read/follow the instructions! It reads do not comment! lol! Anyhow, between the intro page and this web link by our gravitar names I’m approachable! “Karst” is my latest hint word from ff’s scrape books, might help explain halt…..IMO!

  122. I guess this ranks as an odds and end. I made an outline on Google Earth of the search area as defined by the map in the Too Far to Walk book. The red line is approximate as is the map. The state borders are of course finite. It is an interesting view to see how little of New Mexico is in the search area as compared to the other three states though it is still a huge area to walk around in.

    You will also notice on the page with this picture is a book entitled “The Inheritance Part 2.” I wrote and published (author not my real name but does contain all the letters of my real name) that book back in the 1980’s shortly after the conclusion of Sheldon Renan’s “Treasure: In Search of the Golden Horse”. It was a treasure hunt for 500 ounces of buried silver and a certificate for $20,000.00. For the searchers here that like to work on codes and puzzles, this book might be fun for you to play with. If you think you find the solution let me know and I will tell you if you are right. It was solved two years after its release and the treasure recovered by two gentlemen working together from California. There was a short clip on Inside Edition about their search and recovery.

    Click on the “Other Stuff” button to see the map and book. I am still developing this site so I will try to make the book downloadable in the next week or so since it is a PDF file.


  123. Forrest,
    I hope you have a lovely day tomorrow with your beautiful bride on her birthday. 🙂

  124. Hey Dal you wrote:

    So I created a new email account and took on the name of Mike.

    How do you know Forrest isn’t playing with you under the alias Mike?

  125. Yesterday was a beautiful day. It started with tear drops from heaven, who doesn’t love the rain? Then turned to diamonds glistening and blessing the sky. At that moment, pristine in nature, I realized that the “Queen of the Sangres de Cristos” was also enjoying this very special day.

      • If Mt. Elbert is King and Blanco his queen I believe. Crestone the heart in heaven she gleams, yet the peak of Culebra is private…unless you pay a heavy entrance fee, opening possibility. If glory is where you find it maybe he found a glistening key to a place a little southwest of Bozeman which holds clue number three?

        Or maybe he’s just writing poetry..about a tangled cord and an acronym of the root of humanity…but it still sounds a bit like baja to me?

        IMO- good luck straw!!

        • JJ, why is it you always seem to touch upon the high points in question. Your thoughts tend to stick close to the heart. The Madison, Gallatin and Yellowstone conjures memories right from the start. This game of pick up sticks in many ways tests our balance as if on a beam. And if my memory serves me correctly, grape was my favorite pix.
          Mucho Suerte!

    • That reminds me ….. I think there is a secret item in the chest that Forrest wants to buy back from the finder for Peggy. A diamond?

  126. Spoon, I’m glad you asked and without a doubt is not a what but a whom. The one and only Mrs. Fenn.

  127. Lost my response on Nine Clues. Bringing it here to be compliant. Wolf you don’t get my point. I don’t care about the $100. Just saying that she obviously changed her mind about telling the secret as her reply to me was that I got it wrong. Readers here aren’t as dumb as she wants to make us out to be.

  128. Howdy Ya’ll, I’m currently in the deep south, saw an old Dr. Pepper ad on a building and was reminded of the how the numbers 10, 2 and 4 were on the old glass bottles, not that it means anything but I’m searching for hints where ever I can find ’em, just thought I’d share. Also, I asked my uncle who is almost 85 what he felt ‘not far but too far to walk’ would equal to in distance and he said over one mile but less than 3 and for sure less than 5. Great MSU game last night too! It’s nice down here, real nice. lol! IMO, best – cholly q

  129. Good Morning –

    This morning on Kelly and Michael – Josh Groban sang ” Somewhere Over The Rainbow “. It was kinda like he was singing it just for all the searchers looking for the end of Forrest’s elusive rainbow…………. just made my day more special, as I so look forward to Thanksgiving. Wishing all a very bright a fulfilling holiday!

  130. Anyone know where I can find the discussion of FF talking about “the smell of Pinyon nuts”. I am sure it has to be someone in these thread but I cant find it? If he said this and its true, it eliminates many of the areas I have circled as potential treasure spots.

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