The Nine Clues…….Part Fiftyone


This page is now closed to comments but you can read the comments here. To comment on this thread please go to the latest Nine Clues Page.

This is the place to discuss the nine clues…For instance:
What are the nine clues…
Is the first clue “Begin it where warm waters halt” ?

783 thoughts on “The Nine Clues…….Part Fiftyone

  1. Naught I tried to reply to your reply in the old nine clues but it was closed. You said he laughed to himself when he got back to his car. He said saId something like nobody was around so he laughed to himself… Makes me think it is someplace very secluded that not a lot of people go to… imo

    • Spallies, even popular trailheads can be deserted on a Tuesday. I seem to remember the quote was As I walked back to my car I laughednat myself and thought Forrest you ol devil… I’ll look up the exact quote when I get back to my PC and off this tablet.

    • Probably, Naught. You’ll know you’re close to the treasure when you see strange debris and gray alien bodies lying around. I’d bring a Geiger counter, though. Extraterrestrial ships are, no doubt, powered with nuclear energy.

    • If Roswell was north of Santa Fe and in the Rockies, I’d wonder if it was there too! 🙂

    • Naught, I too have a recollection of Forrest saying he took the treasure in first and then the chest when he was asked about if he used a bag/backpack or just carried everything in the open. I’ll be danged if I can find that quote though. I always wondered if he really meant it that way or if he just made a mistake about what he took in first. It doesn’t seem to make sense to do it that way does it?

      • Here you go CJ:

        Q: Mr. Fenn,
        When you made the two trips from your car to hide the chest and the gold, did you carry it openly in your hands or in some type of bag or backpack?

        A: I did both. It was a special time of fulfillment for me and I can still sense now, the elation I felt then. It’s the only time I recall laughing out loud at myself. Hiding that treasure chest full of gold and jewels was fundamental to how I feel about living life to its stretched best, and it emphasizes my aversion to seeing anyone be a spectator to today’s opportunities.f

        • Hmm, thanks Goofy but maybe I’m mixing up two different questions and two different answers. I definitely recall him saying somewhere about carrying in the treasure first and then the chest and I remember thinking at the time that it was a strange way of doing it. I’ll keep searching for the quote but I can’t really remember if it was in a video or on Jenny’s site.

          • I thought it might have been the Mike McConnell interview but its not available anymore to check…

  2. It begins with WWWH, but every line is not what it seems. As an amateur magician, I see illusions and distractions in the clues. I think that is why some have followed the first few clues and have lost their way. Fascinating!

  3. Well I saw this old map of the Rocky Mountains and it included Oregon….? Made me think….He never said not in Oregon. But maybe he said something else, I don’t know? When I saw it. It made me ponder it, just for a few moments. Anyone else seen this map?

  4. Heres my little in-put on ‘put in’… its used by boaters and pilots and apparently by cavers (I didn’t know that)
    …. But maybe it has a double meaning in the poem. Could it be that FF ‘put in’ at the hoB, and also ‘put in’ the TC at the hoB? And when you take the obvious forward movement from the hoB, continue down the non-meek place and up the paddle-less creek and get to a marvel gaze blaze, you will look back and see the wwwh and hob you started at and know that’s where the treasure is. You will have made half the loop and see that the beginning (youth) was the best part of the trip (life), and as TS Eliot tells it, see it for the first time.

    • As others have posted, the term “put in” is commonly used in many different contexts including put in a bid, put in an offer, put in for a transfer, pass, permit or some R&R. I think F had many different opportunities come his way to use the term. Since we tend to be creatures of habit, I wonder which context(s) sparked his use of the term. Some have speculated flyfishing. I even question if it has any meaning at all other than just a term he was comfortable using so he ‘put in” the term cause it well-fit the cadence of the poem.

      • Yeh kidtah, it’s a pretty common term in lots of contexts. I was just adding to a discussion about ‘Put In’ that was on the tail of the last Nines thread (#51) and I got caught in the switchover to Nines #52. A ‘put in’ is just a place like there/where. Thanks for the in-put.

      • Ya really can’t put in to a bid, or put in to an offer unless you omit TO. One can put in to the water as in a canoe. or put it to the cave… and I guess one can put in to the wild blue yonder…. But ya really can’t put in to a transfer, pass, or permit.
        Mark H.

        • You have to look at the term “Put In” as just a starting point for where you will begin any search or trip, don’t put much thought into it or you can get side tracked.

        • Why are you including TO? I don’t read it in the poem. If I may put in a meaning for “Put in below HOB” it could be understood to…
          I’ll be the first to say it don’t make much sense all by its lonesome, but I’m trying to stay open to different meanings I might derive. Thanks.

          • Hello, Zaphod. The Brown Inn? Now that’s fancy! …and crazy…so crazy, in fact…it just…might…work. 🙂 You gotta think outside the box…instead of inside the box all the time…yaknowhatImean?

          • Right zaphod…The card doesn’t say ‘Brown Inn’ as in the title but says ‘Bruin Inn’…It’s a stretch to get Brown out of it…A misread possibly?…Not you misreading, but whomever listed the card and titled it…

    • PUT-IN is a term used by rafters and canoeist. We all know that,don,t we.This also means to LAUNCH,which is the proper term in english for PUT-IN.
      In my opinion this just means that you start a new direction at the Y intersection,below the home of Brown. The not so well travelled road is the one that should be taken from there on… 🙂

    • OS absolutely your points are on target IMO. Put in (chest) south of home of Brown. Below can mean south it could also mean the chest is low down.

  5. So, we put in… OS, I’m with you. Boots On Ground Or creek? Did U put in to the woods, the desert, a creek, how did we put in? I know there will be no paddle up my creek…What are we now looking for now that we put in… a monument, glyph, Pinon? Juniper? Power lines? He said heavy loads and water high… On Sunday Morning, where did dal look?

    My same friend asked if wwwh isn’t instead of a place an idea. Like the mountains. He said something about dew points and humidity, axis s’ and solstice etc. I said it has to be simple… He said it gets cold and snows in the mountains. Arrrgghh! I can’t wait to here his hoB?

    • Guess I’ll have to witdraw and retreat in the face of all that kind of smart. Expand and enlighten us, keeping in mind to parallel the ideations with the realities. I really do like “here his hoB” … kinda the thing I think Fenn plays on us.

      Oh, and I think the starting arena is spelled out in stanza one, but I’m holding onto that for a while longer.

        • I wasnt offended, ‘sorry’ not necessary. (I dont offend easily, I just get more curious about the person.) I didnt understand your line of thoughts so I couldnt respond with any confidence. I understand about 2/3 of the posts, and sometimes when I run across my old ones, they even confuse me. I have really come to appreciate the art of technical writing. I sometimes wonder if the misspellings and floating clauses etc, are intentionally cryptic or ESL efforts or merely typos. Carry on, no offense taken.

    • Mark…Your friend was sorta right, but not an idea…You won’t find wwwh on a map or the landscape…If it was, then a map would be necessary to solve the poem…

      ff said everything we need is in the poem, so that is where you will find wwwh…It is hidden there…It is so simple it is easily overlooked…


        • ararebird…

          Good luck with that…

          5 years and no one has found a good map yet…

          The poem is the map…FACT…

          Any other map is good research material, as is TTOTC and GE…It’s useful to find your way to the location…The poem yields that secret…

          Do you know how to play canasta?…I never learned many parlor games…


          • Nope, don’t know Canasta, I heard she can play though. And I agree, the poem is a map.

            So what resource would you emply to transform the poem from a literal map, to a geographical map? A tool that you can actually use to retrieve the chest from the Rocky Mountains?

          • Now if I gave you that resource you would know where to go look…What I used is right there in the poem, so you can find it as I did…

            Few words are as literal as you might believe them to be…Their meanings are hidden in the aberrations out along the edges…

            For example: In the 3rd line, the word ‘keep’..Think ‘castle keep’, a hiding place within…Strange, no?…

            Tried retrieval myself a few weeks ago…Didn’t fare well at it, though I must admit I had very little time to look…

            Think I walked right by it just as others have done…How close is debatable of course…

            I will be going back however, it’s just too good to let it go…

          • samsmith if you found IT why didnt you stay till IT was in your hot little hands? because you DID NOT find IT!
            if i had a solve that was as good as your i would sleep in my car till i found IT

          • Sam smith, the man who said everyone had it wrong and the solution was so simple and wwwh had nothing to do with water, has returned from his first battle to join the likes of other rookies and claims he walked right on by treasure. We should create a new name for that phenomenon, because that seems to be the reaction for most who return empty handed. I have been there myself.

            Time to admit you got wrong my friend and move on, otherwise after your next trip you will be triangulating dog measurements on your next trip…

            I told you it wasn’t in Wyoming! All in good fun of course, like they say what goes around comes around.
            The Wolf

          • Sorry to disappoint Wolf…

            The location is for real, I simply failed to look in the right place…My bad…

            For you Wyoming is a dead end…Just means we will never meet…And that’s a good thing I think…lol…

            I will go back there again…Bet on it!…

            Other people wrong?…Not necessarily, just difficult to climb out of the box…

            And I will stick with simple and won’t change a thing…Except where I look…

            And BINGO!…No water!…A little snow and wet soil only…Don’t count for me…

            Having a ball with this myself… You?…

        • Oh…Forgot to mention…hoB isn’t on a map or the landscape either…

          Food for thought…


          • Now that is amusing to me…A screensaver?…lol…I could really raise your eyebrows with ‘put in below’ and ‘the home of Brown’!…

            Shouldn’t go there however…Too telling…

            Besides, tried explaining it a long time back…Scoffing was the word of the day…Ignorance is bliss I guess…

            Nothing personal intended here…Not pointing fingers…I believe most people are just locked in their box and have thrown away the key…

            How do you know how far you can go if you’ve never been to the edge?…

          • Go ahead and tell Samsmith. Since you searched and failed chances are that you are wrong anyhow.

          • Sam, Sam, Sam,

            I don’t need your resource, I have a good map that guides me through the poem.

            BTW- “I can keep my secret where” simply means- for him to know, and you to find out. Let’s not complicate this anymore than need be.

            The first stanza is the introduction to the main body of the poem, ending with a coda as the last stanza. obvious, but jmo…

            Best of luck with your chase, great fun eh?

          • ararebird i not upset with you please dont take this that way but awhile back ago i state much of what you are stating when we solved the poem for ourselves.
            i would researcher and re post it but it would be pointless i just see you post things i have said and our names are a little a like. it strange its like i have a twin

          • Don’t bet on it seabee, I’m going back…So no telling…

            Having a ball rarebird…But too literal I’m thinking…

            And nope lianer, hoB is staring you in the face every time you read the poem…

            Best of luck to all here…Fun, No?

          • rovrumrebel…No on the chest and yes on going after it again…

            No plans yet to stop looking, wife’s idea…She enjoys it too much now…

    • Without knowing the blaze, it will be hard knowing where to go from your car. I think time with boots on the ground is needed, but if you follow the clues, you will know it when you see it.

    • question for the locals: what are the best months to search where it isn’t too cold but also when water levels are generally lower? And during these months, what are typical temp ranges for Northern NM around 7,000 feet?

      • Patrick …. I am trying to remember where I heard this, but I heard that April was the best time to search. In northern NM most of the snow is gone by April.

        • Thank you, that gives me at least something to start with. My 77 y/o dad and I are planning a trip in 2016. He’ll be 78 by next year. Will be our first trip as we just learned about this about a month ago. Not expecting anything but the Thrill of the Chase! We are LBers, so this is the ultimate LB!

  6. Nine clues #51… that is hard to believe ! Time sure does fly when you’re on a treasure hunt. I believe the first stanza sets the stage( general area) WWWH is the start point. My next search is in the fall. There is no rush for me. It is all good clean fun and very interesting research. Good luck all and happy hunting…

  7. Here’s my 2 cents about the clues… There (IMHO) can only be ONE SPECIFIC ( call it “Unique”) ANSWER FOR EACH CLUE. Here’s what I mean. You can spend the rest of your life tracking down every location of where WWH, but the odds of finding the correct confluence… plus the odds of finding the correct canyon … plus the odds of finding the correct HOB (i.e. every place that originates / has brown trout)… plus etc. etc. etc. drives the ending odds of finding the treasure into the ‘impossible to find’ zone. I don’t think FF intended it to be impossible. He has said it would be hard, but not impossible. So, my take has been to think of only one UNIQUE answer for each clue. Each answer stands alone without any possible alternatives, i.e. HOB #1 vs #2 thru #100. This is why the clues have to be followed in order. Clue #1 has only one UNIQUE answer, and that answer does not exist among options. So #1 can only lead to #2 which also stands alone (no options). #3 forces you to end up at #4, etc. So, when you get to HOB you are already at the beginning of NPFTM. When you travel through NPFTM, TEIEDN can only mean one thing (also – no options.) And, of course, there you are at the creek, etc. etc. That’s why (once someone solves the poem) there will be a collective sigh, and the obviousness of it all will smack us in the face.

    I need help with a riddle in order to identify / locate the blaze once I’m at the end of the creek. I was originally hesitant to put this out there, but perhaps it will help move things along. If “…wise” means ‘West is East’ … what can that mean, and how can that be (West being East?) What would be a ‘unique’ answer that would stand alone? Anybody?


    • It doesn’t say that you will come to the end of a creek, but I think the blaze refers to an elk trail that leads north away from the creek. I think when Forrest said “Wise” he was playing around with the 3 Wise Men following the North Star. I think the creek is running East & West and when you find the trail North it will be at a small deep pool of water. If you care to email and talk further my email is

    • Well, there is that guy, Joseph C. Brown, who mapped a Santa Fe Trail route (1850’s or so) and drew it upside down, N was S, so I guess W was E.

      • Ah, reminds me of an old joke … What color was the bear? Of course it was white.
        I think my parrot wants to talk to me now.

        • It must have been a polar bear, but what color was the parrot?
          Of course it was grey 🙂


    • Ronsstar / OS / Uken2it / Spallies …Thanks! It’s amazing how (some) answers to a simple (well… perhaps not so simple) question can open up new ways of thinking, or actually answer the question. So, in the case of my (continuing) solve: TINPUYC takes me to a dead end. In which direction do I go? If (my) West (at that point) is East (of the treasure) then I walk West (I think – lol) I’ll work with it and see what happens. Again, thank you for the replies. Much appreciated.

  8. Don’t get me wrong, I would love to be the one to solve the clues and find the treasure, but what makes the search so great for me is that my kids want to get away from the TV and the video games and spend time with me out in nature, can buy that or put a price on it.

  9. We are in YNP right now – skunked today. Found an old rusty mattress metal spring set where I think FF cabins mights have been tho (assuming he had a mattress)? It was just leaning against a tree out in the forest.

    • Hey Dal,

      I just watched the cbs morning show. I found it interesting when the interviewed the forming CIA agent and F’s other friend..they said that Forrest “loves the attention, even if he does not admit it”…
      This makes sense but also struck me with this thought..

      What location, from 100 plus years from now, would people say “wow that guy was awesome/funny/innovative?”

      What location would gain the most attention in hundreds of years from now and have people talking/ gain the most attention to Forrest posthumous?

  10. Hey Folks,
    I have been working on posting the crazy story of how I got a ticket on the hunt in Rio Arriba County NM. Just been running behind. IMO it’s worth sharing though, so I’m working on it. 🙂

    Off Topic,
    and I know this blog isn’t the place for peoples personal problems.
    And not really for pity… although that works too, but because I don’t really want to be considered a spoiler or a fake… I want to share some of my thinking on the Chase and why.

    You see, last week… I was diagnosed with stage 3b Lung Cancer, and the VA, who has been doing great job, are now running a series of test to see what’s next or whatever? The problem is no matter what their conclusions are, the mass on my right lung is surrounding the airway, and it makes surgery impossible.
    So those experts that are suppose to have an answer, and a plan of attack… ain’t really got much… Chemo and Radiation is all they know… I guess I’ll find out in a week or two ????????

    Mark H.

    • Mark –

      I’m glad you shared some of what you are going thru – and hope you know you have friends here who will see you thru this and support you any way we can.

      Looking forward to your adventure story.


    • Been there, done that 7-8 years ago. It aint the death knelll it once was. Just follow the regimen, eat well, sleep long, laugh a lot…. everybody in my chemo/radiation group is still kickin’. And follow Woody Allen’s dictim… eat garlic every day, so when the angel of death knocks on your door, you say “Whhhhoooos there?”, & he’ says “Never mind, I’ll come back later”.
      The chase is a good mental occupier, keep at it.

      • Thanks for the garlic advice, OS. I suppose you’ll know you’re getting “just the right amount” of garlic when garlic crystals appear on your eyebrows from your respiration. 🙂 Or, simply…if you can SEE your respiration…even though it’s not cold out…you’re eating enough garlic to scare Dr. Death away. And don’t forget that vampires can’t stand garlic, either!

    • Mark, chemo and radiation have come a long way over the years. Also, you might consider looking at whether there are any clinical trial opportunities out there. The web site is a great resource. If you search for “lung cancer” and click the option to show only open studies it will show you all the clinical trials going on nationally for lung CA. Don’t give up. If you need help getting connected with a trial or navigating the process you can contact me at:

    • Mark, my dad had lung cancer, and had half of one lung removed. He is 88 and doing very well on 3/4 lung capacity. This was after his heart surgery. There is always hope and faith. Sending prayers your way.

      • Kat, Your Dad, must be very proud to have you in his life! I know I’m very fortunate to have you all behind me, wonderful kids and wife. Prayers are awesome too!
        Thank you.
        Mark H. 🙂

    • Dear Mark,,, kick cancer’s butt!

      Inthechaseto said it best,,, you have folks who care and wish you the best. Hugs from me too!!!

    • Mark,
      I am deeply sorry to hear of your diagnosis. I had melanoma many years ago but not to your level. I envision a day in the future when all types of cancer will be eradicated.

      Scientists are working on new methods (simplified analogy) where they inject the DNA of the cancer cell into a cold virus, then give the cancer victim a cold which tricks the antibodies/white blood cells into attacking the cancer cells. This type of vaccine is being developed for a few types of cancers and I predict one day most cancers will be treated this way.

      I believe Cuba has developed a lung cancer vaccine with a slightly different approach (hormone retention) which I think a US company is licensing. I think it works on the non small cell variant.

      Be brave and I am praying for you.

      The Wolf

    • Sorry to hear about your diagnosis Mark but as others have mentioned, the treatments today have worked for many people. We know more than a few people/friends who have had great success with their treatments for cancers that used to be though incurable among them: mesothelioma, stage 4 melanoma, and even brain cancer. Best wishes to you in your treatment and keep searching!

    • STILL Way Off Topic

      Mark H, I’m an ICU RN going into the Oncology field. Wife has 4b ovarian CA, diagnosed in 2013, multiple tumors. She gets chemo every week. We are about to go out for a bicycle ride. ALL cancers are not the death sentence they used to be. Yes, follow up on any clinical trials. MOST Important : Positive mental attitude. Keep asking questions. Ask the MD, “What would you do right now if this was your husband / wife?”. Be wary of any report of a cancer “cure”. In the U.S. patients are followed closely and if there is no sign of cancer by blood markers or tumor, they consider you to be “in remission” for your general type of cancer.
      The so called “alternative medicine” people may have something of value, but they are quick to label patients “cured” of cancer even though they don’t follow the patients for years. If they never see the patient again, he/she is counted as “cured”.
      There are new and exciting biotherapy medicines that can take chemotherapy right in to the abnormal tumor cells and no where else, “targeted therapy”. A new horizon for all cancer patients, and that is why I am moving into this field.
      Stay Strong! if you want to talk.

      • Oh, I want to add , “home of Brown” is a pueblo, imo.
        So Goofy doesn’t nuke me.

    • Mark,
      A cancer diagnosis is a mind blowing experience. A friend used what he called the “ARM” technique to fight his battle. You assess the situation, if necessary regroup, then move forward. It always made him feel in control.

      I hope you will get a second opinion. Mayo Clinic , in Minnesota, is a wonderful place.

      Sending positive thoughts your way.

  11. Okay I found the reference that says where the Rio Grande warm water halts.
    “Beyond the Taos County line, the river becomes more of a warm water fishery, …”
    Still kind of vague.

    Also up in that area is Agua Caliente creek, which is another wwwh.
    Canyon down is the lower box near the Orilla Verde recreational area.
    The road going north along the river from Pilar is not far but too far to walk
    Rafting groups put in there, HOB is the pueblo lands directly above.
    The rocky and steep terrain is no place for the meek, but it is near.
    You can’t take a boat up or down either the Rio Grande or Rio Pueblo here.
    Heavy loads and water high are at the Sunset Rapid on your left.
    I guess that you must be there to see the blaze, but you are on the east side.
    The water may be lowest when it is cold, then you may cross over.
    Even then you must be brave to go voer those boulders at Rio Pueblo.
    On the otherside is a grove of trees.
    If you are standing there you will smell the sage, juniper, pine, and mountains,
    because you are standing on top of the chest.

    It is within 500 feet of where you parked your car. The trail is dubious.
    If you drive across the bridge and up the switchbacks you can marvel gaze
    That’s as much as I can figure out since I can’t physically get down the rocks.

    You and others have been there Dal. But did you go down across the Rio Pueblo to the place I described? Tell us what you did there.

    • Michael-
      I did not go down to the Rio Pueblo. I don’t even know where that is.
      I walked from the confluence of the Red and the Rio up and down the Rio Grande a mile or so north and south…but only on the eastern side of the Rio Grande,

      I also walked from the Hatchery all the way down to the Rio Grande..but only on the northern side.

      I was convinced after climbing down there via La Junta and Cebola Mesa and El Aguaje that this was not the right place and so I stopped searching there and went on to other places.

    • Michael, When I posted my Orilla Verde story, the trail I hiked ran along the Rio Pueblo. I started my hike at the confluence of it and the Rio Grande…called the Slide Trail. That’s where I found the boulder with the owl petroglyph thing. I never went back to continue searching because i don’t think it is his “special place.” Don’t know if this is the area you meant, or not.

      • Yes, it is very close to the area you searched. But, instead of going along the Rio Pueblo along slide trail, just go down to the confluence of the Rio Pueblo with the Rio Grande. Cross the Rio Pueblo to a patch of forest on the otherside. It is on the Northeast corner. It is beneath pueblo lands, HOB. and adjacent to the Sunset Rapid.
        When I stood there I could see how it fit the poem.
        As to whether it is a special place is too subjective to judge. Take the Taos hwy, turn at Pilar, take 570 along the river past the bridge. Directly above the confluence of the rivers park the car. Go down the “trail” to the water. And, if conditions allow, cross over. It’s about 500ft. The terrain is difficult, but an eighty year old man could do it.

          • Warning, Michael, watch for Rattle snakes I that area. Especially in the rocks between the Rio Pueblo and Slide trail. My father had fished there often in the late 70’s and early 80’s. There were times when he’d get back to his vehicle to find a Rattled rattling near the driver’s door. I don’t believe f would have put the TC anywhere that may have a snake danger hiding under rock which calls out to you to look underneath placement. The “slide” did not exist when I was a young boy. I caught many fish in that area amongst the many fishing holes. Have fun and safe chasing!

  12. Dal,

    Close to the end of the last Nine Clues thread you said this:

    “Naught- I don’t believe Forrest ever said that he took the gold on the first trip and the chest on the second. That is common opinion about what he likely did. But all Forrest has said is that he made two trips in one afternoon. The rest is speculation.”

    On the May 29, 2015, KVSF podcast, Forrest said this (and a few other things):

    “It was heavy enough that I took two trips to hide it. I took the gold in one time and I took the treasure chest in the second time.”

    “The treasure is out there, I guarantee it.”

    Interviewer: You bought the chest around that period (1982)? Forrest: “Yeah.”

    “I’m 99.9% sure that no one has found the treasure chest. You can never be 100% sure, but I know it’s out there. I would bet my kingdom that it’s still out there.”

    “I’m not gonna give any more clues.”

    “There are hints in my book that will help you with the clues, but a clue will point you toward the treasure chest and a hint will just help you with the clues, if you can understand that.”

    “I’ve said things people think are clues.”

    “I’m not gonna release any more clues.”

    “When I hid that treasure chest there was nobody around.”

    “I thought it was the most atrocious thing that I’d ever done.”

    “But in the back of my mind I told myself if I’m sorry tomorrow I can go back and get the treasure chest.”

    “It’s out of my hands now. I’m an interested bystander at this point.”


    • He said, “I thought it was the most atrocious thing that I’d ever done.”…
      “atrocious”? Why atrocious? Not sure I like the way that sounds.

      • This to me describes atrocious from Fenn’s eyes:[from TTOTC]…
        So with an alert to my wingman, we turned in and started down to 500 feet and lit the afterburners. When I got to the edge of the crowd, I rolled on my left wing to get a good look.
        It was a funeral!!!
        We were traveling so fast no one had heard us coming and I rolled my wing down I could see nothing but panic and yelling and screaming and stampeding and terrible fear. It was horrible. Women were running with babies in their arms; children had started fleeing in every direction with their arms up as if they were surrendering. One old, bearded man with two walking sticks just looked at me as if he were resolved to meet his fate.
        I was so ashamed I started crying in my oxygen mask. Sobbing. I could hardly see through the dark visor on my helmet and the salty tears burned my eyes in a way I had not known for a long time. Suddenly, I hated Lyndon Johnson and Robert McNamara and all of the other politicians who were sitting in their fat offices at home, totally oblivious to what war was really like.
        On the first of November, 1968, all flying in the north stopped and we started bombing in South Vietnam again and in Laos, which was also dangerous air. President Johnson, who was now maneuvering for peace, was telling everyone at home that we weren’t bombing the Ho Chi Minh Trail in Laos, but no one told us we weren’t.

    • Thanks for catching that Halogetter. I’m rewatching all the videos to find other things we might have missed

    • “I’m not gonna release any more clues.”

      What was that he just released last week? I believe it was called a clue. Gee, I wonder why that came out? (wink, wink)

        • Dal called it a “clue” the day before and he knows what a clue is. Before he responds to this, I will clarify. Hints helps one with the clues as clarified by FF above in Halos quote provided.

          But how does this latest “hint” help anyone with the clues?

          I have always believed clues get the searcher closer (point direction) to the chest. So what does one call the removal of options like “not in a mine,” “WWWH not a dam” and the Today Show clues?

          Technically removing options supports a clue since it does move one closer to the chest; if FF continues to remove all options eventually there will only be one option left.

          I guess we need a new definition for “removing options” they aren’t hints because they don’t help us solve the clues and they aren’t clues because they don’t really point the way…

          • Just looked them up and a mine is below the earth and cave is in the side of a cliff or hillside

          • spallies,
            Yes most caves are natural, some are man made; however does something man made disqualify it?
            Man made has not been given as a clue yet – only “the treasure is not associated with any structure” and structure has a specific definition which many apply too liberally.

          • I don’t think there is a need to rehash “The Great Useless Clue Debacle” as I call it. I fought the law and the law won…..

            I made the same point to Fenn; that if he kept telling me where it was not, it would in fact lead me directly to the chest.

            The poem calls them hints, the book calls them clues, and I call it information. What a clue is to one person is nothing but a smoke screen to another. For example those that think the tiles in Fenn’s bathroom are actually a map; I would think that would be considered a very large clue.

            If you want to waste your time arguing semantics with Fenn go right ahead.

          • hi goofy
            i agree way you. Mr.Fenn is very cagey and i try to just stick to the poem the book and use his non clues for what they are.

          • Yes Goofy very good point. I guess we should listen to just you talk about how information in the scrapbooks is useless! Now that is productive…

          • FYI-
            I referred to it as a “clue” because that’s what Dustin, the producer at CBS, called it in an email he sent me. I had not seen it or heard it at that point so I was just passing on what he told me. I am sure Dustin does not know, nor care about the semantic differences between hints and clues…
            Sometimes we (including me) get very hung up on what is a clue and what is a hint..
            I don’t think it’s all that important and often can be counter-productive.
            It may not even be important to key in on the differences between clues and hints in the poem..If you have found 26 things in the poem that help you find the chest…so be it.
            I suspect Forrest just wanted some method of determining how to attach a number to the clues in the he came up with a definition for “clue” just as Wolf has pointed out above, and when Forrest applied this definition to the poem he found nine clues..the rest are probably hints…
            Forrest has said a number of times that he will not give out any more clues..and then it appears that we got one..whether it’s a hint or a clue or just a repeat of an old useful statement..I for one am happy with it and feel the discussion about clues vs hints is not terribly important in the grand march toward finding the darn thing.

          • Like I’ve said several times Wolf, if someone is of the opinion the scrapbooks are helpful that’s fine. Whether they call them clues or hints doesn’t matter.

            If you want to waste your time arguing semantics finding “a new definition for “removing options” they aren’t hints because they don’t help us solve the clues and they aren’t clues because they don’t really point the way…” as you put it….. go for it.

        • @wolf there is a whole thread about divorce below this one that isn’t chase related so maybe time is better spent discussing that instead of a clue that will help us get to our common goal

          • Its ok, it’s my fault cause I was trying to make a analogy how a subject on the chase can be less counterproductive than a non-chase related subject.

            I agree with you though about its best to go with another searcher than someone that really don’t know what HOB means or brave and in the wood might be when you out in the forest

          • I think it’s very much on topic.

            1. She asked what to do with funds from the treasure if found.

            2. She asked for an opinion on what to do regarding a treasure hunt.

            Marie – keep your head up and don’t let these guys get away with this.

      • No sweat, Dal. When Forrest does a long interview like that, not everything gets put into print or remembered, certainly not like the comments he provides in writing. So I try and keep records of the ones that are conspicuous, and there were quite a few in that podcast.

        Regarding clues versus hints, I think Forrest has made that pretty clear, and those that pointed out that the labels are not critical, and that it’s all potentially useful information, are on the right track in my view.

        The number 9 has been mulled over and examined from every angle, yet when I asked Forrest about the significance of 9, he said this (sorry to those who have already seen this):

        Did you intend for there to be 9 clues, or did it work out to be just right with 9? ~ halo

        “Nice thinking halo, I didn’t count the clues until the poem had been finalized. Although I changed it a few times over the months I think the number stayed about the same. f”

        The 9 appears to not be part of a grand plan from the start, unless he’s just being coy about it. He thinks the number stayed about the same, after working on it for at least 15 years. Ha.


  13. Holy black wapiti marbles, Batman! There are already 71 comments that I’ve got to catch up on. Was I dozing? Sorry, about that. Nine clues, huh? Well, I have a question. I’ve gone from feeling that I’ve been within 500/200 feet to not so sure. Does anyone else feel this way? I have done it tired and felt weak. I have found marbles in the area. I’m thinking of getting a license plate that says WAPITI. Kind of describes me 🙂

    • this is way off topic but i will bring it back. after 20 yrs of marriage i found outhubby has been having an affair almost the whole time. i am not devastated if anything i feel a rock has been lifted off my shoulders. i am at peace.
      back on topic we plan to go get chest in aug. we will be putting the divide in writing etc. our grandson may not be allowed to go with us because of the emotional stress. i think we will do fine if he can go. here is our problem if we take grandson who has done very little work what is his share?
      if he cannot go we have to have someone go with us. if anything were to happen to one of us it might not look good. if you think i worry too much see the link below where an owl killed a woman and her hubby went to jail for it.
      when we were at clear creek i nearly fell off a 4×4 board that was loose over boulders 3-4 feet below. it could have killed me or very lease seriously hurt me.
      no neither of us want to go by ourselves so if someone babysits us what do we owe them?
      no i am not kidding

        • we are searching in NM we have a cabin at tall pines and we plan in to go in mid aug.

      • WOW! I always tell my friends who are getting divorce. If he wants to go hiking stay away from the cliff….LOL, no really, someday it will hurt real bad. Just remember that you are free! Men are such a pain…..sorry guys.

      • What do you owe them – ? How generous are you ?

        A college education might be nice for your grandson.

        Find someone you trust to go with you and leave the wandering ole coot at home.

          • You bet it is – that way the treasure is all hers. If she would then, while still married derive an income from it – that would be split 50/50. If she eventually got divorced without selling it first – it’s all hers and from what I’ve heard – deservedly so.

            It’s high time – we girls stick together.

          • I agree with Inthechaseto. It’s one thing if a man can ask forgiveness and NEVER do it again…and quite another for him to tell his wife that’s just the way he is…love it or leave it. I say LEAVE it…and I’m a man. I’m a “typical” man in many ways…in that my brain is wired like a man and I joke around with words sometimes…but my actions I take very seriously. My wife has enough to deal with already than for me to make her question my fidelity. That causes way too much heartache. I’ve been on the receiving side of that before. My heart goes out to you, Wildbirder.

      • Wild, it’s all about you now. Take care of yourself…go get your 50 and leave the rest. Tell him if he wants it to go get it himself…best of luck to you.

        • If I understand this correctly, Wildbird and her recently discovered 20yr philandering hubby are planning to take a trip together…in the wilds of NM, to look for the treasure and are needing guidance on the going rate for a chaperone. The chaperone obviously needed to make sure one doesn’t push the other over a cliff.

          Does that sound about right? If so and if I had time, I’d chaperone for free just for the entertainment value alone. I’m thinking I could go pro that whole train wreck & pay for several search trips with the viral video ad traffic. 🙂

          All kidding aside, I can’t imagine a worse idea.

          • clinger the sad but funny part is we really get along great. w had to spend time fixing our car insurance and he had to spend the night. we fell back into our regular routine amazing fast. we still need work and are getting that. we have a great preacher who didn’t lay a lot of Bible on this.
            i am afraid anyone who came with us would be bored stiff waiting for a fight.
            i guess i watch too much murder and mayhem.
            i am concerned that if something bad happened on trip the law might look at this all in a different way
            i have another story but dont want to take blog time to tell but we have laughed about for yrs. i guess that what’s help us get through tough times is our love and humor. the ability to laugh at things

          • Bird,

            I’m glad you’re still getting along. Marriages fail for many reasons, and I believe infidelity is not the greatest problem that any marriage can have, and in fact, If you do some research, there are many studies that show that infidelity is the easiest problem for a couple to work through. Some people, Amelia Earhart comes to mind (chase related post now. :)), aren’t wired for monogamy, and as long as both parties are up front, I think people can make anything work.

            I still think it would be better to take separate trips.

      • Wildbirder, you are a much better person than I could ever be. Probably the reason I have an ex-husband.

        Your husband cheated on you for 20 years and you are wiling to go with him and split the tc.

        Honey, I would lock his XXXX in the closet and go by myself!! Let him figure out how to get out of the closet!

        Oh yea, IMHO.

    • I sure do! The “waters high” were too high during the time of my search during the spring runoff. I’ll give it another shot in late summer or early fall. How close to the chest is the blaze?

    • That rocks! I don’t feel sure either. Am sort of looking way down from the top and I feel like its covered? How do you feel?

    • The whites of our eyes are as red as tires. This is a reel adventure. What a marbel gaze! The sights have us grounded but a nice drive is lightning us UP. Back to the foundational 24 lines.

  14. Hey Yogi, did you hear us yesterday? We found your red refrigerator in canasta canyon but boo-boo had already cleaned out the sandwiches.

    Lucky we brought our own tayleer made forks for fine dining at the dude.

  15. Boo boo must have felt bad for raiding the refrigerator…he brought us Eagle milk and swerial upon request.


  16. I never thought I’d have trouble subscribing. Maybe it is the new UP address. IMO, I was looking for the clues the wrong way. Now, I wonder where I will be up. I hope I will be in the land of Oz. Oh yea, sub again… Happy Adventures to all.
    P.S. found the error… My email is @, not… Where oh where was my mind (probably on squirrel tail).

  17. Has anyone considered F 200 feet comment as a hint? Why not within 150 feet or 75. My point is, F says very little that isn’t calculated.

    From TFTW:

    After a few minutes a man, woman and three small children approached within about 200 feet, and sat down.

    BTW did anyone else notice the pillows piled on the couch in the CBS interview. Again he does very little that isn’t planned. I believe alot of his statements or off the cuff remarks are thought out as well—even though they appear natural. He’s had years to perfect his game plan, if your going to win you have to study analyze and think IMO

    • Search the West-
      Could have easily been the producer or cameraman that arranged the pillows. Forrest wouldn’t even know where the camera guy will choose to film in advance and certainly cannot predict what will be in the background.

      The camera operator usually chooses the framing and likes to make things look good.

      I’m betting that if the pillows were messy Forrest’s house cleaner would have arranged them during the day and if they were messy just before the interview the cameraman arranged them just before touching the “record” button.

      But my point is you’ll never know if the person that arranged the pillows was Forrest, Peggy, the house cleaner, the producer or the cameraman.

      To give a detail like that “clue” status is to fall into a rabbit hole.

      • @ Dal

        I would call them hints not clues. I refer you to something in TTOTC.

        And when my tackle box is closed at last and the cadis hatch is gone, I will rest through all of time and space, pillowed down and scented in, with a smile that comes from remembering the special things that brought me to that final place, one of which was knowing Peggy was there, somewhere, waiting for me.

        Dal I want you to scroll down to the 5th picture in this magazine article and examine the couch.

          • My point is the middle couch cushion of that brown couch has been reversed. When I saw that my curiosity was peaked. So I watched the CBS interview and sure enough someone had jacked with the pillows.

          • I think you are right that people moved things..His dolls have been moved since I was there last and a pair of moccasins is gone and some of the books have switched places and some brandy is missing from the Jackie Onassis bottle..
            You might want to add those to your “clues” list too…just saying..

          • If you reversed that cushion may I ask what your intention was in doing so?

          • So why did you turn the brown cushion over. Was it because of wear…maybe for photographic reasons/better picture??

        • Hmmm so if you go to You’ve got Mail posted in September 2011 that picture is posted on that thread ?

          • So looking closer the pictures are taken from different angles but they both have the “reversed” cusion in them?

        • Really? He could have just got a new couch.. or cleaned the cushion…It appears to be no accident.. The is some sort of stage there..

          • I can’t believe all the “Pillow” talk! You Guys are so funny. I am getting the feeling some of you are hoping this is a clue?

          • I agree woneyedwilly. IMO it does mean something… To me anyway, it does.

            @ Lou Lee, 🙂 We are funny aren’t we? Some of us have to try to grasp every little morsel (hint). Maybe someday these hints will feed an idea and help us with the poem (clues) putting us on the correct path to the f’s treasure… You never know… That’s what I’m hoping anyway.

        • Not Obsesse, IMO, I don’t believe it’s in that position because of a “spot” on one side, but if that were the case, the cushion could simply be flipped over R to L or L to R, still leaving the front side of the cushion at the front of the couch. This is why I believe it was done purposely as a hint.

          fwiw: Pillow in Spanish translates to “almohada” or “el cojinete”, which could also mean “bearing”. We’ve seen “bear” hints before, Just saying…

          @ Bigfoot, I’m not sure if the buffalo hide with the circular sun blaze design and the broken line going through it is in connection to the pillow/cushion position, but we have seen that design in the background of photos with forrest before, so I believe it does have some importance.

          • Also because of the cushion being reversed it could be interpreted as “back or backward” or “past” as in time… IMO

          • The chest is under his couch cushion and he keeps checking to make sure it’s still there so he can tell the next reporter that it is still hid… uh yah just joking but maybe he keeps treasure stuff stashed there when he is in a hurry like when there isn’t time to put it away right 🙂 or ???? go back to the poem that’s the real clue.

          • I would not say the pillow is a clue, but more of a hint. Whatever the pillow references, is the clue. IMO it is pretty obvious what it is though..

          • Jdiggins, It’s not that obvious to me either.
            Too many ways to interpret things… I like hearing others interpretations. I do have my own ideas, which I’ve already shared.
            Do you have any opinion or interpretation on this cushion/pillow topic?
            Maybe woneyedwilly would care to enlighten us with his theory…

          • Jdiggins, Well, at least we do know that for certain. It is the “middle” cushion… And it’s backward / reversed. I think we may need to determine f’s meaning of the word “middle” and what it could possibly be referring to. Middle Ages? Middle English? Centre? IDK, just thinking out loud.

          • Wiseone, Forrest know US! So I think he may be playing with us and laughing about how we Look at every little thing. IMO, I think he did this to see what we would say. Maybe?

          • Hmmm Wise One doesn’t Indulgence have a siege of a Castle on it? You might have made a connection there??

            Or it’s just Teseques spot on the couch 🙂

          • You guys think what you want. I personally think he did it for a reason. Besides, Tesuque usually is pictured lying next to forrest in his chair. Or posing on the floor for photo ops. She probably couldn’t jump that high anyway.

          • So, wiseone,
            Iyo is “reverse” the clue, or is it pillow, cushion, or middle? I’m not being a smart alec, I’m serious, I respect and appreciate your thoughts. Mine are often all over the place, and I need to ground myself, center myself. 🙂

          • Remember the way he arranged his closet? The shoes, the shirts, the extra chair in there, etc… He wouldn’t go to the trouble doing these things if it wasn’t for a specific reason. Several of the SB’s show similar oddities… We all know he does this. Take them as you will, but in my opinion, these are hints.

          • wiseone i have all my veggies lined up in my pantry peas, gr beans etc. i do this because at a glance i can see what and how many i have. i am very organized.
            all my long shirt shirts are in one place in my closest lined up from formal or dressy to trash shirts for yard work. tehn comes my 3/4 shirts and then my short shelves.

            from what i have see of Fenn home /office picture he is very neat. compulsive maybe or neat freak

          • Got a question for you Wise…….No really, it’s a real question; I’m not making fun of the deep thinkers.

            How did you determine the cushion is a clue? Or maybe a better question; how do you know what is not a clue? What criteria determine what is or what is not a clue. We have hundreds of pictures here; some of, maybe all of, them have something odd in them with enough imagination.

            I can see Fenn now, running all over town gathering up cushions for the next scrapbook. Cushions with owls, and trees, and waterfalls, and cactus, and Indian symbols, and wavy lines, and circles………He will need 42 of them. 🙂

          • Goofy, I know this question was directed at another poster but I’ll share my perspective as well. My opinion is that the poem and associated information is like a puzzle with more puzzle pieces than are necessary to recreate what’s on the front of the puzzle box. It’s also a puzzle where we aren’t actually shown what’s on the front of the box, only what the “front of the box solution” leads to. So other than the poem and the named clues, we are all trying to create what’s our impression of what the front of the box should look like from too many pieces. Sometimes you an extra piece only declares itself when you’ve built your whole puzzle and it doesn’t fit. A piece that belongs may only make itself known if you’ve mostly built your puzzle and it fits perfectly. Either way, there’s no real “knowing” when it comes to clues and hints outside of what’s been explicitly identified unless you have chest in hand and can point to all of those pieces of critical information that got you there. All of this in my opinion for whatever that’s worth.

          • threerocks that is a great way of stating the problem. we just have to be careful not to act like Melba in the movie The Cincinnati Kid who would trim the existing puzzles pieces to fit her puzzle thus ruining the puzzle for ever her self.

          • Onuat, I don’t see any zipper on that cushion. It appears to be a leather sofa and you can see that the leather is folded and sewn on the backside of the cushion. All I’m trying to do is figure out what he is hinting at by placing the cushion in backwards. I have my opinion and I suppose you have yours. All is good.

          • Goofy, I never said it was a “clue”. I used the word “hint”. I do understand after doing this for 3+ years now, what the difference is between a hint and a clue. The clues are in the poem.
            There are nine clues.
            There are hints in the book and in the stories he writes and words he speaks. The hints will help one to understanding the clues.
            Am I not correct in my understanding?

          • Goofy might disagree about hints being in the “stories he writes and words he speaks” part of your comment, but I agree with you! 🙂 I have a search area in mind and I often see things in his comments that seem to be hints supporting my solve ……. it could all be wishful thinking on my part but who knows????

          • Thank you CJinCA 🙂 I appreciate your support. I never used the word “clue” in any of my comments, so I’m not sure what Goofy is getting all uptight about. We’ve all discussed SB hints on here before…
            And I also agree with you on the wishful thinking.
            Maybe it would be best to simply drop this “middle cushion/pillow” conversation and move along to more important things. That’s probably what Goofy is trying to say to me.. I’m sorry if I confused anyone.

          • Wise,……I really was wondering how you determine what is a hint/clue, helpful information.

            If you don’t want to answer that’s fine.

          • I have agree with Goofy. Being one who is trying extra hard to be an outside-the-box thinker, I find the discussion of cushions and stuff in his office to be the most ridiculous discussion to date. Sorry, folks, please see Scrapbook 62. With that said, I’m now seeing hints everywhere in the book. Not just a couple, but in every chapter.

          • E.C. waters if you thought the discuss of couch cushions is the most far fetched discuss to date please see woneeyewilly comments

          • Goofy, I’ll reply.
            IMO there is no absolute certainty in locating what one may think is a hint from forrest…. or a clue for that matter. We all know there are nine clues in the poem. As far as hints go, you just look at things in pictures (TToTC book or SBs) or even in his written and spoken words. If something stands out as looking out of place or sounding odd, that could be a tip-off that it could be a hint IMO. Forrest has stated something similar to what I’ve just said in one of his early videos. I think it may have been the Moby Dickens video, but not sure. I can go look for it if you want me to, but it may take me a while to find it. Maybe someone else here remembers him saying something like this. It was a long time ago. Anyone recall this?

          • WiseOne.
            I think this is what you are looking for from Moby Dickens:

            “Get the Thrill of the Chase and read it; and then go back and read the poem, over and over and over again. And then go back and read the book again but slowly looking at every little abstract thing that might catch up in your brain, that might be a hint that will help you with the clues. Any part of some is better than no part of any.”

        • Teseque is probably rolling on the floor laughing…:) “My day bed,my day bed is a hint ..too funny.”

          • Lol Onuat… That’s probably the real story… But, why couldn’t he just flip it over with the front showing. Unless little Teseque wore away at the front of the cusion from getting up and down so many times. That’s a pretty big leap up for such a little dog. I have to go back and reference Iron Wills measurements again to determine if this is a valid theory lol 🙂

          • Or the zipper could be broken that’s why someone turned it that way.I have done the same with my seat and I’m sure others have as well. As for a hint?? As Jdiggins says its in the middle . 🙂

          • the fuss about couch pillow does it involve two pictures from two different interviews or is this about one picture of a couch pillow. to me the couch pillow is not backwards because there is no zipper showing. if this is the dogs or a humans favorite place to sit the ceases on the end look just like that. just ceases from someone sitting there.
            second unless fenn had the picture made what control did he have over the picture coming out the way it did and what guarantee did he have they would use the picture. there are a lot of ifs here.

        • Wiseone, Sorry but I can’t see anything of significance to marvel at. What makes you think it is of significance ? Where does it apply in the poem? All power to you if you have found a hint amongst the cushions. It’s all good.

          • Maybe it just has significance to me. Or maybe it’s nothing at all… who knows. I think it was purposely done – you don’t, so that’s ok too. Let’s move along, shall we?

          • WiseOne,
            Maybe calling attention to “pillowed down”? Or maybe just the word “down” in the poem?

          • Hold on a minute… Can someone please look at the photo under “You’ve Got Mail” and look at the size of the first cushion (the one closest) Is it just me or is the cusion a lot longer than the other two? I know perspective but compare the back of the couch to the seat cushions???? Might just be the angle but since we are dissecting all the stuffing out of his couch anyway I thought I’d throw it out there 🙂

          • The cushion is placed backwards on purpose to reference the textile on the wall, which looks like a crosshair. IMO it links to JFK, since he was shot from a place called the DAL-TEX(tile) building at 501 Elm St in Dallas Texas. This is why the Bracelet was from Harvey’s Heirs, and it had 22 disc beads on it. JFK was Assassinated on Nov, 22. I believe there is something in the chest with Ruby’s too.. But that may be a coincidence. I remember Forrest saying something about getting people off the couch. I am sure Jackie Kennedy’s bottle of Brandy was left near a couch in the guestroom, along side her $50 tip. The “Big D” holds a lot of information we need to find this treasure chest IMO. Forrest could have easily set that cushion backwards without anyone having any clue or noticing. It looks like, whoever is taking the picture, is trying to get a photograph of the entire room. Or it is a still photo from a security camera that is in the room, and Forrest did it all himself… Done.

    • I suppose if you crack HOB, this would be as critical if not more so than WWWH because you might get WWWH but not reach where to put in below the home of Brown. I’m amazed with so many searchers over the years, this has not been found. I can’t wait to get to NM, even if it’s found before I get there next year!

      • hi patrick where in NM are you going to look and when . i get to go in mid aug.
        my life is going to be mess but i have this plan and i dont want to put it off.

        • My dad (who is 77 now) and I will go sometime next year, probably between March to Oct. trying to decide best months for searching. We will be in northern NM.

          • YIPPEEEE!!!! we hopefully will go in aug and i hope i am right but if not i wish you well and good luck

        • I also think FF goes where he pleases and boundaries aren’t necessarily something that would stop him. As I mentioned, it could have been opened when he found it previously, but now more secured.

  18. I’d like to Thank you all individually, but I shouldn’t make Goofy crazy…
    Thanks folks for your support. Group hug!

    And yes Pueblos and most of NM are the home of the Brown. Smiles.

    Mark H. Feeling the love!

    • Hello, Mark. Indeed. New Mexico is where it’s AT! Thanks for charging my hug batteries. Back at ya!

    • Question regarding a clue- what are the chances that “no place for the meek” would refer to going onto private property through a gate? One of my possible solves gets me to a gated, private property. Would you locate owner and ask permission to search property and split treasure if found? Just wondering your thoughts on this.

      • Hi, Patrick. That would be kinda tricky. Personally, I’d go way out of my way…or find some other way in…before I went through someone’s gate. Hunters need to use apps and maps for that reason. IMO, I don’t think that would be necessary…because, after Forrest’s last interview I don’t think he put the treasure on private property, anyway. Permission or not it could cause problems. If you never step foot on private property then the owner never enters the picture. Always better safe than sorry, right?

  19. This is my opinion and my opinion only. People have tried to decipher the clues to the poem without paying attention to the first clue. When the first clue has been deciphered, all others become evident.It is my opinion and my opinion only.RC.

  20. Patrick before you venture into someone’s private boundary,stop and think why it would be special to Forrest. If you have found something special within the boundary then by all means ask before you enter. They might be willing to show you around and get a cut if it’s in there. I wouldn’t enter without asking..but that’s just me. 🙂

    • Patrick definately ask permission first before you go onto anyone’s private property… they may be reluctant at first but once they understand what it is exactly that you are looking for they just might be happy to show you around 🙂

  21. I just learned about all of this today I’ve been reading for hours. I plan to join the search but have a lot of catching up to do.

    • Hello everyone, As I’m no longer in the chase, I hope to offer to all my gift:

      LET’S LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD. Here are my best ideas available for all. I will not be answering questions since I’m moving on.

      I hope I am recognized for generously giving away KEY METHODS developed to everyone:

      1. 32 points on a compass rose,
      2. 32 degrees – freezing point, Warm waters halt at freezing, run at 33. Follow section 32 East on a straight line, down the middle of a glaciated canyon.
      3. Section 32 of every township on a NFS map; 4. HALT ends numerically at 32.
      4. plot 4 compass POINTs N,S,E,W each on Sections 32 with the center section 32 landing on the Continental Divide or Rocky mountain spine.

      “KEYS TO THE POEM”: “musical/piano tones” FF is a piano player and likes finding the center or middle of everything. look for Middle E, frequencies which match Longitude and F major tone frequencies which match latitude. (note Fran Warren’s song (forrest’s fav) is Major F (forrest finished as a major in the AF.

      1. WWWH = MUSIC tone frequencies:
      W.W.W.H.= Whole note, Whole note, Whole note, Half note (Diatonic, Dorian)

      2. SEEK = KEEY backwards. Longitude is Middle E. Look for KEEE, KEE, KEY in the poem both vertically and horizontally. LONGITUDE sits on the key of middle E frequency. You will find latitudes which match other F frequencies.

      3. EF = ef cryllic, or 2:3 perfect circle of 5ths in music, 3/2 perfect symetry in architecture, coordinates, aviation, etc. IT WILL HELP ANSWER EVERYTHING IN THE POEM as it is the key to perfect balance in the poem and life.

      4. IMO ff is a 33 degree free mason. Many signifcant Masonic symbols, geometry & numbers provide answers to the poem.

      5. LOOK AT PRIVATE PROPERTY on township sections down from your Cardinal direction Point CROSS.

      6.MAKE A POEM GRID; take out all spaces in the poem. Justify LEFT, and do a WORD SEARCH vertically, horizontally, backwards, forwards.
      SLIDE ALL WORDS TOGETHER to give additional meanings.

      7. WORDS INSIDE OF WORDS: examples;

      -But.tarry.scant= buttery, butt, airy, scant, cant
      -MARVEL run definitions for mar, are, V, EL

      (I found twin butt shaped butter colorred short buttes in Big Sky, Montana where the hill side is marred with a blaze of EL on private property fitting every portion of the poem’s directions including exact coordinate found in the poem.

      8. PRECISELY; means slice down to the smallest portion. Look for letters in pictograph form and use the RUINIC symbols. IMO ff has used both for the final game.

      9. NUMERICAL VALUES: assign every letter of the alphabet 1-26.

      10. WITH SO MANY SPANISH references in the poem and memoirs study the JESUIT method of treasure mapping and treasure monuments. It’s well definied and several helpful books are available. Fenn lives in SANTA FE. This was the Palace of Governors 400 yrs ago who governed new spain in america and governed Gold mines for the Kind with specific treasure mapping methods.

      11. MONTANA = treasure state, Gallatin River named for US Treasurer, numerically #42

      12. Line 16 down from the top reads ERT NM
      (run the definition for ‘ert’ and decide for yourself)

      13. Number 13 or B is indicative of Treasure in Spanish gold maps and most likely also in the treasure.

      14. The poem must be solved on at least 3 levels. I have completed 7 levels all leading soundly to the exact same place in Montana.

      15. “What is above, so below.” mirror images all over the poem: MW is one example which you can find on the map and in landforms.

      16. Pay attention to CONSTELLATIONs on your map in name and structure.

      17. As Fenn said, ‘ALL YOU NEED IS IN THE POEM.’ the key is music key. The blaze may be the letters Blaze. HoB is also found in the poem as WWWH that I described for you.

      My methods are sound logically and reasonably.
      I have been signed on for 18 months and spent 2500 hours of thought with the poem, fs map, google earth.

      Sincerely, “42” Valerie

      • Virginia –

        I feel like I am losing a good friend.

        I wish you success and best wishes for what ever you do in the future.

        Please know you have always add wonderful notes to this blog and I thank you for that.

        • He said it’s less than a few miles he travelled from his car. Are you positive Montana?

      • Sorry to see you go 42. You have been a great contributor and thinker. I can see a lot of potential in your solutions and with a few twists and bends I am sure those facts could line up to something special.

        • 42 i will be sorry to see you go to. i hope God blesses you with a great life and many more days searching for what ever is your hearts desire. wildbirder

    • @skyler regarding catching up, yea, read the blogs from 2013, and you can get up to speed on how newbies thought back then! Lots of videos to watch and it takes a few hours a day on here too! IMO

  22. 42

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts about the poem. I understand that you are finished. Thanks for being such an awesome blogger. It was fun. 🙂
    The biggest part is that you were involved in The Chase. Something you will never forget. 🙂

    • @42, so I now understand very specifically the meaning behind 42 and it is related to why there are exactly 265 gold coins in the chest (it’s also very cleverly related to the weight 20.2 troy pounds of gold), and other items he named from the chest. There’s a specific theme. These numbers are hints to f’s secret. In fact, as I go back and read and listen, just about every time we hear from him he’s actually finding ways to sneak in hints. With each new “untangle”, I’m continually amazed. F’s a genius at being underestimated.

  23. I’ve looked around the site and don’t see Lewis and Clark’s journals mentioned much. I also don’t see the Nez Perce war described.

    For those interested in Montana, here are a few coincidences I’m chasing at the moment.
    – Fort Fizzle in Lolo Pass coincides with Gold and More mention of fizz.
    – Looking Glass was familiar with Sitting Bull (prized peace pipe of Fenn’s) and was attempting to meet him in Canada before he was killed. Looking Glass is a curious coincidence with Alice in Wonderland allusion and poem.
    – Blaze Cenas and the air gun is an unfortunate story.
    – Wiser had to blaze some trees to Traveller’s Rest (the only confirmed camp site from the whole expedition)
    – Misspellings galore coincide with words like “knoledge” (in the journals) and the bells. Extreemley hard to reed but fun nunthless… I recommend reading the originals as much as possible.
    – A few mentions of Native Americans dancing in circles around the fire, coincidences with Gypsy Magic (page 42 and the 42 lbs coincidence) and fairies painting. Has anyone else noticed the grass below the blaze on the p43 illustration subliminally suggesting Wyoming? Or is it just me? Probably just my crazy linking.

    – wwwh – Lolo Hot Springs (halted the Corp of Discovery), or another thought is Steamboat Island (warm waters halting) next to Great Falls on the Missouri (specifically next to Rainbow Falls) is not far but too far to walk.
    – canyon down – Lolo Pass or the Missouri
    – hob – could be Little Brown Stein at Missoula, a curious item
    – no paddle – could be Lolo Pass, could be Great Falls Portage where they had to walk their equipment around the falls for miles
    – marvel gaze – could be Great Falls
    – done it tired and now I’m weak – could imply Traveller’s Rest or the portage

    My current focus of research is on Traveller’s Rest and Great Falls. A stretch? So, all you need is the poem, but these other things might help.

    • A few more…

      – Jefferson was an architect, and sent Lewis and Clark on this journey.
      – Jefferson had a cipher, their agreed keyword was “artichoke”. I haven’t yet tried to decipher all of the capitalized chapter letters (which coincidentally end up in pairs), the poem or other items of interest, but it’s on my list, even though I’m not supposed to. I’m still passionate about the National Treasure movie and trying to make some logical sense out of this. 😉
      – brave and in the wood – journals are written in what is called “codices” or a “codex”. These are made from wood.
      – worth the cold – I’m choosing to see this now as all of the trails that have turned cold of which I’ve followed trying to find this thing.

    • EC, I once thought Great Falls too over by Maelstrom AFB by the dam below as home of Brown. I even found a “red herring” in acronym form with all the letters up and down both sides once. In one there is a reference to a junkyard on the road behind the dam. But to no avail. LOL the acronyms made a ladders. In reference to ladders on sides of indulgence or the homes of Indigenous Brown? Go figure, lol, I gave up. Then had to chuckle that not too long after, I found out that a bunch of cadets got caught cheating on exams! LOL HA!

      • …and doesn’t FF look like the guy on the cover of the movie Heartland from 1979 in the California sunrise article? It was filmed in Central MT but set in SW WY.. Hmmm

    • Oh, and one more important coincidence that I left out.

      Nicholas Biddle (No Place for Biddies?) edited the first release of volumes in 1814.

  24. Reposted:

    Hello everyone, As I’m no longer in the chase, I hope to offer to all my gift:

    LET’S LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD. Here are my best ideas available for all. I will not be answering questions since I’m moving on.

    I hope I am recognized for generously giving away KEY METHODS developed to everyone:

    1. 32 points on a compass rose,
    2. 32 degrees – freezing point, Warm waters halt at freezing, run at 33. Follow section 32 East on a straight line, down the middle of a glaciated canyon.
    3. Section 32 of every township on a NFS map; 4. HALT ends numerically at 32.
    4. plot 4 compass POINTs N,S,E,W each on Sections 32 with the center section 32 landing on the Continental Divide or Rocky mountain spine.

    “KEYS TO THE POEM”: “musical/piano tones” FF is a piano player and likes finding the center or middle of everything. look for Middle E, frequencies which match Longitude and F major tone frequencies which match latitude. (note Fran Warren’s song (forrest’s fav) is Major F (forrest finished as a major in the AF.

    1. WWWH = MUSIC tone frequencies:
    W.W.W.H.= Whole note, Whole note, Whole note, Half note (Diatonic, Dorian)

    2. SEEK = KEES backwards. Longitude is Middle E. Look for KEEE, KEE, KEY in the poem both vertically and horizontally. LONGITUDE sits on the key of middle E frequency. You will find latitudes which match F frequencies.

    3. EF = ef cryllic, or 2:3 perfect circle of 5ths in music, 3/2 perfect symetry in architecture, coordinates, aviation, etc. IT WILL HELP ANSWER EVERYTHING IN THE POEM as it is the key to perfect balance in the poem and life.

    4. IMO ff is a 33 degree free mason. Many signifcant Masonic symbols, geometry & numbers provide answers to the poem.

    5. LOOK AT PRIVATE PROPERTY on township sections down from your Cardinal direction Point CROSS.

    6.MAKE A POEM GRID; take out all spaces in the poem. Justify LEFT, and do a WORD SEARCH vertically, horizontally, backwards, forwards.
    SLIDE ALL WORDS TOGETHER to give additional meanings.

    7. WORDS INSIDE OF WORDS: examples;

    -But.tarry.scant= buttery, butt, airy, scant, cant
    -MARVEL run definitions for mar, are, V, EL

    I found twin butt shaped butter colorred short buttes in Big Sky, Montana where the hill side is marred with a blaze of EL on private property fitting every portion of the poem’s directions including exact coordinate found in the poem.

    8. PRECISELY; means slice down to the smallest portion. Look for letters in pictograph form and use the RUINIC symbols. IMO ff has used both for the final game.

    9. NUMERICAL VALUES: assign every letter of the alphabet 1-26.

    10. WITH SO MANY SPANISH references in the poem and memoirs study the JESUIT method of treasure mapping and treasure monuments. It’s well definied and several helpful books are available. Fenn lives in SANTA FE. This was the Palace of Governors 400 yrs ago who governed new spain in america and governed Gold mines for the King with specific treasure mapping methods.

    11. MONTANA = treasure state, Gallatin River named for US Treasurer, numerically #42

    12. Line 16 down from the top reads ERT NM
    (run the definition for ‘ert’ and decide for yourself)

    13. Number 13 or B is indicative of Treasure in Spanish gold maps and most likely also in the treasure.

    14. The poem must be solved on at least 3 levels. I have completed 7 levels all leading soundly to the exact same place in Montana.

    15. “What is above, so below.” mirror images all over the poem: MW is one example which you can find on the map and in landforms.

    16. Pay attention to CONSTELLATIONs on your map in name and structure.

    17. As Fenn said, ‘ALL YOU NEED IS IN THE POEM.’ the key is music key. The blaze may be the letters Blaze. HoB is also found in the poem as WWWH that I described for you.

    My methods are sound logically. I hope they assist someone to the treasure. I have been signed on for 18 months and spent 2500 hours of thought and research on the poem, fs map, google earth.

    If you are curious why I’m exiting…
    after uncovering 7 layers in the poem – It’s my opinion that Forrest’s TOTC honors the death of one he loved.

    Sincerely, “42” Valerie

    • Thanks for the insight.

      You have quite an imagination. It’s amazing how far an idea can take a person even without confirmation for any of assumptions along the way.

      I think it is necessary to make a trip to firm up at least the starting point; and then some more thinking, and then another trip.. and so on.

  25. Well, I’m not considering a Yellowstone connection, but if I was, I think that a mirror of the first 3 letters of the poem (As I) might be a good place to start. Isa Lake is on the CD in YSNP, and it is unique. It has two drainages, and they are twisted (east goes west, and west goes east). Has this spot ever been considered in anybody’s solve? Has it been discarded? Just curious about it.

  26. I read earlier that a BLM spokeperson in an interview said that “if its found on BLM land there is no rquirement to report it to the authorities.

    Is this the same for National Park/ Forrestry land?

    What is the difference between BLM/Federal land and Public land?

  27. Disclaimer: the following is all IMO and is more than likely codswallop.

    The key word is in the poem (almost!). It is revealed by finding WWWH.
    WWWH is not (entirely!) in the search area.
    The solution requires “information” from more than one state.
    You have to think like a pilot.
    You have to pinpoint more than one place to reveal the final search area.
    It may be straightforward, but it’s not simple.

    The above criteria came to me after an initial leap of imagination, following hundreds of hours of frustration, and a realization that probably most of us will never have an opportunity to discover the final resting place without broadening our thinking beyond a simple ABC approach. It’s now my opinion that the poem can be divided into sections that relate to each discrete geographical location. It’s linear, but not localized. Essentially, there are three separate areas revealed in the poem, but they are all linked in a direct way.

    Having said that, I haven’t completed my research, and (obviously) I haven’t got the chest. But I’m becoming more and more convinced by the logic that underpins this approach. So far, the “scattershot” approach, whereby you pick a likely area and see if you can make the clues fit, has been fruitless for me and for so many others. This way, there’s only one possible WWWH, one possible keyword and one possible startpoint. As for the rest, I was truly amazed by the fit that was revealed by coordinating the various segments within the poem – the fit is both thematically and geographically coherent.

    If I’m anywhere near right, the architecture of the poem is stunning. I was beginning to think that it was so woolly and vague that it was impossible to decipher accurately, but now I applaud its creator, unreservedly. Of course, if I’ve chosen the wrong WWWH, my solution will collapse – there’s no room for error in this approach – but that doesn’t negate the symmetry and superb cunning that underpins the correct solution, should this theory prove to be generally correct.

    I shall be refining my solution over the next few weeks, and so I shan’t be giving out specifics yet, but I would encourage everyone to start looking at the “big picture”!

    • I should add that there’s very little math involved, no codes, no jiggling of letters, no need to know about historical figures or music theory – just a large portion of geography, and a little understanding of flight.

      • Vox, there was a guy named Eager Beaver on this thread several weeks ago, from Boston I think, who was certain the poems clues were pilot navigations (latitudes and longitudes I think). Sound familiar?
        He flew out to Santa Fe to do a search, and promised to write about his experience when he returned. No word yet, but like you, he was pretty sure about the pilot navigation thing. I am very intrigued and wait for your solve.

        • OS, I haven’t been following the posts very consistently in recent weeks, and so missed Eager Beaver’s comments. I will say this, though: NM is not part of my current thinking. Ironically, it was on the menu for me a few weeks ago, but I discounted it once the pilot theme came together for me.

          What’s probably more important in my solution is the WWWH “injection point” into the poem, and the multiple, separated locations.

  28. @voxpops Thanks! You state ‘think like a pilot’ I took ground school at the Anchorage Community College in ’83, what a great program. What I recall was to always trust your instruments, in the case of the Chase it’s the Poem that must be trusted and used or else one could get vertigo, lol! Also, when I visualize the special and private spot of the TC and ff’s, I think about the pilots who I’ve shown real estate to over the past 19 years, they all like land that has a birds eye view, southern or south western facing and with remote chance of constructing a small landing strip. Standing by waiting your next post and IMO!

    • Cholly, thanks for the support! I agree about trusting the poem. I’ve found myself in an uncontrollable spin way too many times when trying to consider all the thousands of possibiities introduced by stuff that’s not in the poem.

      Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a pilot, and so I may not know what I’m talking about, but I don’t think you need to know the abstruse technicalities to understand the allusions to flight in the poem.

    • Cholly-

      The class of 1983 Anchorage ground school was post mine (finished winter semester in December 1977)! I am a local pilot providing flights in the southwest (Arizona, New Mexico, and California). Always nice to meet folks on the website who share similarities. What area are you hunting in? We should meet up!

      • @lianer and voxpops, still in research stage with strong pull toward landing in NM this Fall and if the TC is still out there by next summer then taking off for YNP -Firehole, Madison, Riddle Lake, Solution Creek, Quake Lake, Ice Lake and after that if still out there then back to the drawing board, lol! I live in NorCal 707 Mendo…….

        • Cholly, good luck with your search! You have some great places lined up.

          Like you, I’m still researching. I’ve “moved with confidence” a few too many times already, and so am more circumspect now about setting off until I have a rock solid basis for it. If my current theories don’t pan out, I also have a whole bundle of potential sites in Wyoming alone. Add to that a good number in the other three states and I could be leaving my own bones out there by the time I’m done!

  29. OS, I replied to you, but for some reason it’s gone into meoderation. Hopefully, it’ll appear, soon!

  30. IMO
    The poem seems to start in water and until the end it seems to end in water.
    The theme to the poem leads to water, Lewis and Clark story follow fast moving stream, My War story fast running water everywhere, Cody story ends with them crashing into a creek and losing the front axle, Skippy not able to takeoff from a lake.
    Effort worth the cold could be indicating water so is brave in the wood in its true form be a log in the water? Story where Forrest walked miles to fish a lake he secreted a can of Dr Pepper in the lake by piling rocks on the can.

  31. I have been studying this poem for about a week and I have actually come down to an actual physical location. I really want to check my theory out.

  32. 80 east I say
    Soon will be on my way!
    The kids are Sooo excited which makes it all so much more!
    Treasured memories will be made…again!!!
    🙂 🙂 🙂

    • Me too….leaving tomorrow…good luck to you jdiggins…… 🙂 make some memories…..

      • Yay! How fun, focused! Have a blast, stay safe, stay hydrated, and good luck!
        I leave monday. 🙂

        • good luck searching have fun make memories and find that chest please so we can sleep nights lol oh where are you searching

          • Hi wildbird, thanks! Sorry, my “state” card
            I keep close with the others in my hand. 😉

            Which brings to mind…
            he did say
            It’s out of my hands now..

          • i understand about card close to heart. i was wondering? well i know there was an inter view and a picture with couch pillows backwards and was there a second time and pictures. i am getting a headache searching and i have a big headache with hubby lol

    • Yes jdiggins and Focused,
      Travel light and return heavy. Safe travels where ever you may be going… 🙂

  33. Has anyone noticed that the start can be read “Así ha ve” or “Thus seen”?
    Doubt it is the key to the puzzle, and only having basic Spanish can’t check the entire poem for phrases. Stood out to me though that the first 3 words could be read in a different language.

      • As I say, I doubt it is ‘the key’ but wondered if any other phrases came up simply by changing where the spaces are.

        Happy that at least 1 person found my finding interesting 🙂

        • Sid, I found it interesting. That’s a good find. Not sure what to do with it though. But I do like it.

          • wiswone to me it looks like the middle cushion is not on backwards and it is either a replacement cushion made poorly or well used. i vote well used.

  34. Also, and I appreciate this may have been better as a reply to one of the previous comments. I don’t think the first puzzle we need to crack is WWWH.

    Considering the time Mr Fenn had to work on this poem, we shouldn’t imagine the first stanza is simply filling space.

    My assumption is that either the first stanza, or the last and first stanza combined give you the clue to identify the specific WWWH.

      • Yay 🙂 I’m not out on my own on 2 points. Only the entire puzzle to crack. 🙁 lol.

        Out of interest have many people taken Mr Fenns advice of showing the poem to kids?

        Being part of a huge family, I have cousins, nephew and nieces spanning the entire spectrum of ‘kid’. In my experience, this puzzle has distinct reactions from the various age groups.

        Before the ‘tween’ age they at best put up with you reading them a poem, then try and get you back to performing a puppet show with their toys.

        Past about 14, they are ‘too cool to care’.

        But by far the best age group, humour wise are the 12-14 age group. They are smack in the height of the ‘I know everything, and all adults are stupid’ phase, and the reactions you get when you introduce the puzzle can be hysterical.
        My favourite so far is when a group of them were first shown the puzzle, and started instantly arguing among themselves about who would ‘solve it first’. The show stopper being “I GO’ 8 OUT O’ 10 IN MA SPELLIN’ TEST”.
        I had to walk away before I laughed at that point, didn’t want to put them off before they even started.

        If any of you have tweens about the house and haven’t shown them the puzzle, regardless if they solve it or act like my crowd, you gonna get gold 🙂

        Happy huntin’


        • Sidjames –

          It was fun reading your “kids” story and I think you are very smart.

          There are lots of things that can be put together in the poem – to add hints.

          One is the usage of the word OLD – it’s in there 3 times.

          If you use take “But tarry” – and use the first three letters after B you have UTT. I do believe the Ute Indians could be in the chase.

          The end is ever drawing nigh = I sever

          • Think I’m going to put an app together to scan text for any hidden words.
            I personally doubt that this is the key to cracking the poem, as Mr Fenn has himself said ‘Don’t mess with my poem’. So I will take him at his word.

            My thinking though is to do a full scan of the poem and post the results, so as to level the playing field for anyone interested in a solve using hidden phrases.

            For my own solves, I’m trying to go back-to-basics. My interpretation of Mr Fenn stating that kids may find the puzzle easier to solve is that us grown-ups are trying to read to much into the solution.

            Glad you enjoyed my anecdote about the kids and thanks for the compliment 🙂

            Good luck with your hunting 🙂

        • Sid, I asked my great niece and nephews to look at the poem to see what they thought. They told me the HOB was grandma and grandpa’s house… Their last name happens to be Brown and they live in Florida, Go figure.. I kind of thought that’s what they’d say. Oh well.

  35. The Wolf, Thanks for your help. Yes, that’s the one I was referring to. I believe that statement is about 44 minutes in on the Moby Dickens Video. He may only be referring to the book hints there, but why would he go to the trouble to stage these scrapbooks / photos / interviews, etc., if there are no hints in them… I believe there are hints in them. To each his own I guess.
    IMO, I feel he does this sort of thing frequently (or he used to anyway) and I like to pay close attention. This might be a good question for Jenny’s MW Q&A with forrest…. but after today, maybe it’s best to just be drop the subject. I don’t want to get put on Goofy’s Nuke List… :/

    • wiseone i dont know if you are on to something or not. i had a couple of thing Mr. Fenn has posted that drove me nuts until i found an answer. it will drive you nuts untill you can either use it or toss it.
      in our case one of them we were able linked it to a solve.
      i am very tenuous not stubborn TENUOUS!!! it works most days but sometime i have to say dead end.then move on. just think of Rose in the African Queen

    • Wise you won’t be nuked for having an opinion about what is or what is not a clue. That should be obvious from looking at the comments here.

      I honestly was wondering how someone decided something is or is not a hint/clue/helpful information. One could probably come up with thousands of oddities going through the photos.

      I wondered if people are just picking out something odd and creating a hint/clue/helpful information out of it or if they are using it as a conformation to one of their solutions like several have in posted solutions.

      There is so much information available here I thought it would be interesting to know how one goes about deciding what is a hint/clue/helpful information. That’s all, no big deal……I’ll get back to my deluxe wee gee board mouse pad.

      Carry on with the “The Great Couch Cushion Conspiracy”.

      • The Cushion is the MAIDS Fault 🙂

        I do not possibly see a clue in that unless it’s the Zipper 🙂

      • Goofy –

        Here is your question and if I may, I am going to try to tell you how I perceive a hint.

        You asked –

        “I honestly was wondering how someone decided something is or is not a hint/clue/helpful information. One could probably come up with thousands of oddities going through the photos.

        I wondered if people are just picking out something odd and creating a hint/clue/helpful information out of it or if they are using it as a conformation to one of their solutions like several have in posted solutions. ”

        The hints I have picked up sometimes relate to a person, place or thing. Detective work 101. But more than that before I would consider – say a place – I would have to almost have a three way confirmation. That area would have to have had a least three hints. This creates the layered effect we speak of. Those hints would come from – research, the poem, the book, other books, things FF said and yes, finally the scrapbooks. Why would he have done the SB’s – just for his fun? I don’t think so. There were a couple of them – that maybe didn’t have a hint. Many here in the past have said he was speaking to them from the SCB’s – that’s a real good possibility.

        Not everything I found was “odd” in fact quite the opposite. I do believe that everything to solve a complete puzzle is right in our face.

      • 🙂 Thanks Goofy. I didn’t want to be viewed as a trouble maker is all… And I can’t believe I spent the whole day thinking/commenting about a sofa cushion…That’s pretty bad! Especially not knowing for certain if he did it deliberately as a hint or not… But after reviewing the other photos of the couch, especially the “Everlasting Forrest Fenn story”, the cushions appear to be placed correctly in that photo, but the other one doesn’t IMO.
        So, I just look and listen to things (oddities) and try to determine if I think it is a hint or not. (out of the who knows how many thousands)
        I said earlier today that I thought the cushion being reversed could mean going back in time or into the past. so I was just curious as to what others thought. I also find it odd that forrest mentions his “couch” frequently. Well, that may be an exaggeration, but at least it seems that way to me. I have to admit though, I would be curious to learn if the cushions have zippers on them or not. 🙂 I bet they don’t. Forrest? Do they have zippers?

        • wiseone most cushion for furniture have a zipper or someway of removing the cover for cleaning and replacement of foam. i dont think it was a waste of time. think of it as an exercise for the brain. you and all of us had to do some thinking and debating on it to come to an answer. it was just an exercise in logic. certainly no worse than some of mine

          • Thanks for the acknowledgement of my comment Wild Birder
            The cushion could be a reference to Peter Cushing. Died of prostate cancer (WWWH) and he played in pretty much every Frankenstein movie.. Also he played Grand Moff Tarkin.. Any Star Wars similarities? Skywalker, far far away.. Jar Jar, father, Carrie “Fisher”… could go on and on..

    • WiseOne –

      I’m with you 100% – and here’s why –

      I found along the way – you are going to have to switch something. Remember Peggy said she would rather switch than fight.

      The cushion is also “in the middle” a fact we should all know is important. IMO

      So – I know he has been hiding things all along the way – and usually in the middle of a story or in the middle of a sentence. 🙂

      The reason some folks don’t think this is true – and that is because it simply doesn’t work for them. First, they are not in the right spot and secondly they are not working the poem correctly. Thirdly, they think they can simply find the nine clues – walk out in the woods and find it. That’s not going to happen and IMO Forrest made sure of that – he did say you will have earned it.

      So – all of the above is just exactly and precisely how the puzzle is working for me and just my humble opinion.

      • Thank you into, That makes me feel better.
        I thought everyone knew he hides things… But maybe not. I will think about the things you have said. It makes some sense to me but still I find it difficult to have confidence in my line of thinking…and pinpointing an exact location. It’s hard to explain.

        • WiseOne –

          Your welcome – I thought everyone knew that too. Well, the realization that they don’t work if your not in the right spot – should be a wake up call for many. I can tell you – as a serious hunter that there is one map that is IMO a huge clue.

          • Yawn… I’m tired. Been at this since 7:30 this morning. These are long days. Maybe that’s what f means by they will “earn it”.

            One Map… Hmmm. Huge Clue…

            I think I need to go find my pillow. I’ve been on a couch cushion all day. Mine has a zipper 🙂 Forrest’s… I’m not so sure.

            I’ll think about it some more… in my dreams… Tomorrow is another day.
            Good Night. And Thanks Again.

    • WiseOne-
      That photo is not from a scrapbook. Forrest had nothing to do with me posting that article for all to see. I did that, just like I do with all articles, stories, interviews, reports that I am aware of. For the most part Forrest doesn’t even read the blogs.

      By the way, you’ve only scratched the surface. There are dozens and dozens of photos posted on this blog that were taken at Forrest’s home and his pueblo and out with his friends out in Santa Fe..So you have days and days of great examination ahead of you and I can’t wait to hear the results.

      • Dal,

        IMO – Forrest may not read every post – but he does read the blogs, as he just made a post on Scrapbook 143.

        • He checks his new scrapbooks and occasionally he gets directed to other posts by his friends but he does not regularly read the blogs. But believe what you want. You apparently know more than I do.

          • Dal, I agree. If he knows about something from these forum type blogs, he gets it from a searcher’s email secondhand. He doesn’t read every comment, and he probably doesn’t read 98% of the comments. IMO

          • @Mindy, I partially agree. I pretty much skip over the entire discussion about couch cushions myself. If it were me, and it’s not but if it were, there are two situations I would tune in: 1) if a seeker started to get close with their solution by revealing it to me in an email, 2) if an email came that was related to a scrapbook. Then I might start monitoring the specific blog or thread for what they were saying specifically while still filtering the rest.

            Our team is planning our final outing in Sept. We had thought we were done this year with our art angle fails, but something that excites everyone has been uncovered and developed. Stay tuned. As usual, if nothing else, it will make for an exceptional “ask a child” and “straight forward” blog post because at the moment we’re finding every chapter in the book can be coincidentally “Fenn-linked”, or to use his words:

            “… the lines that spun the web that forms the latent beliefs that brought me here…”


          • heck mindy i have hard time reading all of this. we have got 17 days – 9 hrs etc till we leave and eat our crow

        • I agree. I think f reads the blogs too.
          And I would guess that no one really knows what he reads… that is unless they are there watching and/or looking over his shoulder. IMO

          • I know if I spent that much of my life on something, I wouldn’t just “set it and forget it”. Heck no! I’d be all over it, savoring it, living it, loving it!
            Not just check in. I would know it inside and out. Who my leaders were, if any, who my fav’s were, the laughs, the intelligence…c’mon, this chase is giving forrest just as much fun as us! 🙂 imo

          • Me too! He’s still young in my eyes! 🙂
            I believe his spirit is extremely vibrant!

          • Lou Lee, it is f commenting on Jessica having a good understanding of the English language or something to that effect.

          • Lou Lee –

            here it is in total –

            Forrest Fenn on July 22, 2015 at 5:50 am said:

            I received another email from Jessica about midnight. It is refreshing to see how she commands the English language. I am sure the air of her new freedom will be intoxicating.

            Reply ↓

            on July 22, 2015 at 10:51 pm said:

            Well thank you! I am sure some English major somewhere would tell me I misuse semicolons, but thank you. I like how you commanded the English language in this comment! “Intoxicating” “air of her new freedom” love it!

            Reply ↓

          • Oh Thanks, I was looking at today, because I thought he said he just posted. So forrest does still read some. 🙂 Best Wishes to forrest.

          • Ha! Lou Lee! You just gave a hint!

            When I email Forrest and say, “Forrest! Do you see what they’re saying on the blogs?” He always replies, “No, what are they saying? Can you send me a link?”

            That’s how Forrest reads the blogs, in my opinion. Which was why I created the Fenn Hot Spot, for those people like Forrest and others who don’t have time to scan through a bazillion comments. Bear with me…things will grow as I get more organized. Things will be hectic for me for a while until I get moved to CA.

      • Dal,

        Your posts are always right on and helpful. Thank you.

        I do have something to ask regarding the unintended clue in TFTW. You mentioned the 10 miles in the introduction not starting out that way and that you didn’t think that was the unintended clue becuase of the first rendition of the intro. He had changed it to 10 miles to be more accurate. Couldn’t the fact he changed it to be more accurate be the “unintended” clue so that “too far to walk” does in fact mean 10 miles? Get my drift?

        • Pat-
          I do not think so. That was an email exchange. Forrest and I writing about the actual distance vs his perceived distance …I had map tools in front of me. He had his memory. I could put accurate measuring tools against his perception of a distance that he walked dozens of years earlier…The exchange happened before the book was printed…before he knew there were typos..

          I was just trying to save him some grief because I knew that every searcher would measure that distance on a mapping program and come up with a completely different mileage than he stated.

          If it were important he would have simply told me it didn’t matter and used the numbers he wanted. I believe it was important to him to be accurate.

          Anyway…I believe he said that the unintended clue was ruling out Canada because the map does not include Canada.

          • Dal, forgive me for posting this here but i cant find your original post and i have been looking awhile, anyway, you said that you had darkened a photo of Forrest daughter fishing, can you tell me, where is that picture, is it one of the scrapbooks?? Thankyou, we all appreciate the hard work you and Goofy put into this blog.. You have alot of great people here..

          • Into, Thank you,
            Now does anyone know where on the pecos river that picture mite be taken. I sure cant find it using google earth.

  36. I believe very strongly that the hints are ONLY any use to you ONCE you have solved at least some of the clues. The poem is all you need. the hints are a confirmer that makes no sense to you unless you have solved the clues.

    • I was in a course once where the instructor liked to say, “Context is worth 80 IQ points.” If there are hints in the Scrapbooks, they probably will only make sense to someone if they have the proper context – i.e. they have figured out some of the clues and are looking in the right area. Without context they can be a quick route down a rabbit hole.

  37. I had another breakthrough in my tripartite potential solution today. I discovered a very clear and well defined blaze that was “brave and in the wood”, and would allow me to go in peace. I had hoped that this particular area would reveal something of note, but I didn’t expect anything that fitted so well with the theme and geography I was researching.

    What made me even more convinced that I’m onto something was the reaction of my wife. She was very sceptical earlier in the year, and threatened me with all sorts of repercussions if I even thought about making another trip! This time she understood my excitement, and even raised the prospect of us making another trip together. I think I must be onto something!!

    • voxpops with out someone who believes in your idea it can be hard. be sure to have some fun out side of the chase to remember after the hunt just in case.
      i waver back/forth with my belief in our solve. as a Christian i try hard to let God give us guidance in our everyday life.
      i will be working on our solve when something comes up on the blog to misdirect me causing doubt of our solve.
      i will pray and what we think is an answer will come to confirm we are doing the right way. but until BOG we will not know if we have been deluding ourselves. LOL
      as i write this a line from an old war movie comes to mind. we believe it’s from the Longest Day these two german guys are discussing the weather on a porch and question whose side God really is on. i really don’t believe God takes sides and nor do i believe just because we are seeking God help that we have a ticket to the chest. God know us better than ourselves and may have other plans for for us. all we can do is pray, listen for guidance, and pray some more we have it right.LOL

          • uken2it dal is right to question this. i dont feel it was bad taste. we have been a little heavy on this and then to have marriage go south. it doesnt look good. but we have bumps in our lives just like anyone but our faith helps us through them.

        • dal thank you for asking the question. we dont believe God fails us as much as we fail him. i was trying to say that just because of our faith we DO NOT have any special advantage to find TC. we try to give God all the glory for the good in our lives in including our solve. now that is NO guaranty our solve is right. trying to express things on blog is hard. in re-reading the blog i realized some of our statements didnt sound the way we wanted them. we sound like a pain in the neck and we are faithful but we fall real short because we are human

      • @wildbirder, you said:
        ” with out someone who believes in your idea it can be hard. be sure to have some fun out side of the chase to remember after the hunt just in case.”
        Very wise words. I do have some fun memories from previous searches, but there was too much driving and worrying about mounting costs to make it a totally pleasurable experience. I should try to be more devil-may-care about it. But you’re absolutely right about having someone else believe in what you’re trying to do – the trouble is, up to now, I’ve been wrong (at least in terms of where the treasure is), and so it’s difficult for a spouse who isn’t as obsessed to generate the same enthusiasm.

        As for a deity’s involvement, I think that any higher power is probably indifferent to our little escapdes! After all, what does all this mean in the grand scheme of things (if there is one)?

  38. I think I will ignore the clues and just look in the places I’d like to explore. I met a guy that said he knew Forrest. he figured it was in yellowstone in a bear den behind a waterfall. He based it on some fishing story Fenn told him decades ago.

        • Thanks, inthechaseto! I’m having fum with it. Today’s Pillowgate post will be fun. 🙂

          • Hey Mindy I finally took a late lunch and read your Fenn Hot Spot… Thanks for the recaps… How do you find time to read all the blogs you are amazing 🙂

  39. I may regret this but I have been stuck on this one for a while now and figure the brains here might be able to help.

    My WWWH is eric sloane related. In 1980 he painted “canyon 1991” why?

    In 1982 fenn bought the chest. why? were they working on this together?

    IMO, I believe that 1991 is an hourglass on its side. Which is where time stands still. this is where time halts. This painting has many great clouds which were erics true passion. These warm rain clouds over the desert are standing still in time I believe for a reason. Maybe there was a day that this painting was painted that would be remembered by the both.

    so I believe the painting “Canyon 1991” is where warm waters halt. imo

    please, be brutally honest, seeker, wolf, halo, goofy,…


  40. Another possible ‘hint’ just occurred to me.
    In one of the interviews Mr Fenn mentions that if you were at the location of the box, as well as the sagebrush and pinon, he said there would be arrow heads and bits of pottery around you.

    Specifically he says that some of the remains ‘may be up to 30,000 years old’.

    Now, if Mr Fenn were just a layman when it comes to Native American history, it would be easy to pass this number up as just some stab-in-the-dark guess. But considering his knowledge on the subject it is probably worth taking this date as a reasonable estimate.

    And here comes the hint….

    The Clovis people are currently only thought to have settled the Rockys from around 16,000 years ago. Meaning if Mr Fenn is even in the ball park with his guess we would be talking about the oldest known settlement in North America by many thousands of years.

    It could be a good idea to look up the known Clovis settlements and the routes we think they moved on.

    Hope that is helpful to someone, and if not hope it is at least a little interesting.

    Happy hunting 🙂

    • Hi there, I’m not sure that Forrest said there would be pottery or arrow heads near the chest. Could you please provide a link to his quote or video link that confirms this information. This would be a bad rumor to start if it is one.
      Thanks, Friend.

      • It’s from the letter ‘Milan’ wrote to him.

        The quote is:
        “You once wrote: “There isn’t a human trail in very close proximity to where I hid the treasure.” You also once wrote: “And in close proximity were stone projectiles and crudely made hand axes that could have been 30,000 years old. Can you clarify for us your definitions of “close proximity” and “very close proximity?” (e.g. 10 feet, 50 feet, 100 feet, 500 feet, etc.?) Thanks, Milan”

        It’s about a quarter of the way down this page:

        I’m not certain where ‘Milan’ found that line though.

        • Sid –

          Here is the TOTAL quote of what he said – and it just goes to show again how easily things get misinterpreted.

          It’s from Jenny’s site —————–

          I found that little arrowhead when I was nine and it sent me on a lifelong journey of adventure and discovery. I wondered who made it and caused it to be resting at my feet for 1,000 years, waiting for me to pick it up. I still feel the excitement of that day.

          In the Saharan desert of Libya I discovered thousands of war relics left over from the tank battles of WW-II: burned out tanks and shell casings were everywhere. And in close proximity were stone projectiles and crudely made hand axes that could have been 30,000 years old. I was looking at conflicts piled on top of conflicts. Who can imagine how many…

          Sid – I really like your way of thinking so keep on –
          and I think your idea of putting together an app –
          to put words together in the poem is brilliant.

          • Good research into! I never thought the 2nd part of the “proximity” question from Milan on Jenny’s site ever referred to the location of the chest but without the whole quote, it may have been difficult for some to understand Milan was talking of 2 different uses of “proximity” by Forrest. We certainly don’t want people to think there are axes and projectiles in close proximity to the treasure chest! 🙂

          • Thanks for clearing that up Into 🙂

            Saves me researching the migration routes of early Clovis people.

            This is the reason this forum is so useful. Many minds are better than one when comes to getting to the truth.

            Happy to hear my idea for a word-finder sounds useful to others. Got a couple of job interviews to get out of way, but once those are done the app shouldn’t take long, so hopefully have it ready by next weekend.

            Thanks again for clearing up my error Into, and happy hunting to everyone else 🙂

          • Hold the phone Sid –

            Why on earth would you give up on researching Clovis migrations?

            Forrest has been hinting to Clovis over and over.

          • into – When I read Sid’s “proximity comment this morning regarding arrowheads and pottery in relation to the pinion and sagebrush location of the box… I felt this was incorrect also, so I started researching it. Now is see you found it! Wonderful. Thanks for your work. We don’t need any more mis-information or mis-interpretations out there than there already are. Do we? Nice job!

        • I agree Wise there is much mis-information, outright lies out there. Those here try to correct any wrong information; but some still gets through. This should be a good example for the newbie’s to do their own research.

          This is also one of the reasons we want folks to use IMO when expressing their thoughts. Some over confident searchers express their opinion as if it were fact; which could lead to a lot of confusion.

          As far as misinterpretations go, they are abundant. An interpretation is nothing but opinion and we have lots and lots of those.

          Just for example some folks have interpreted the placement of the couch cushions on Fenn’s couch to mean something. 😆

          • Goofy –

            I just love the avatar of your dog – we lost ours a few months back after owning him for 12 years and I was so hoping to have a photo of him with the chest. 🙂 He helped me on my very first journey to my spot.

          • Goofy, totally agree with all.

            But, dang, it gets tiring playing whack-a-mole all of the time!! 🙂 🙂

          • I find that kinda funny. It’s probably just to make himself more comfortable for those naps he takes on it. Its maybe starting to wear from sitting so he flipped it around for more support and then just forgot to return it to the correct position. Lol imo of course 🙂

  41. Could it possibly be about the shape of the Clovis point and not just the history of it…only time will tell. (Geographically speaking that is…what to look for in the field.) 🙂

    • Friend –

      If you take a look at the Gypsy Dancing drawing on pg 43 – look at the bottom “in the middle” and you will see one with a foot sticking out of it. 🙂 Now what do you think that is telling you. Duh.

      I don’t think the shape of a arrowhead has much to do with it – at least not in my solve – but I could be so wrong. 🙂

  42. Here is another clue from Philly…

    Pennsylvania stands for “Penn= William Penn…sylvania= latin for woodlands =Penswoods”

    Forrest said one clue was that the chest was 300 wiles west of Toledo….

    A town next to Toledo is called Sylvania….again its the name for woodlands in Latin….

    I have some other references to Philadelphia in Forrest’s work, if anyone is interested..

    • I’ve asked this question to other people before, but even if you can somehow abstractly string together bits of information such as this, how does it help in discovering the location of the chest?

      • Cause it’s the definition of the word we are trying to find, Phil is trying to break ideas down to get it. Wood? We know the meanings that are for wood but which one did Forrest use? If we was sure that would be useful information

      • “in the wood”

        this is in reference to that clue in the poem…

        IDK if any of these connections lead anywhere, but might as well look at every possible way of solving this chase…

        • And you’re right, if we don’t bounce ideas around no matter how ridiculous they seem well then how are we to find a solution.

          • right and it’s not like I am saying its right or that it is the only way to go about it…I just thought it was a coincidence that Sylvania is a town next to Toledo and F mention Toledo…Why Toledo? Well maybe it was a reference to the towns name next to it..’woodlands’? who knows…

          • my Dad for what it is worth had a saying “there is no such thing as a bad question except the one NOT asked”

      • I am with you seabee88. It all begins to run together in a confusing collage of ideas and pictures. Here is what we did to get to our solve. We first took info from what started all of this. That starting point was Mr. Fenn cancer and his idea to die on his terms with the TC. We then use logic to rule out places. We don’t think TC is more than 200 miles N. of Santa Fe. But that’s a lot of area still to cover. We based this on him being in final stage 4 cancer and very ill. How far could he travel all by himself? Not far but too far to walk. Here why he used his car. Any journey Fenn took started from his home IOHO.
        Once we had an area marked on Google map we started looking and researching the areas. Our area does stretch into southern CO. Using the poem we plugged various places in from Google maps.
        Once we had several places to look at we focused on how you would get there from where Fenn lives to see how one would travel there.
        Once we had a path to search we started trying to find how it mirrored the poem. If the path could fit the poem we started looking to see how other clues/hints from interview, book and history help or hinder our ideas.
        Clues from poem on path from Fenn’s home backed up with at 2 – 3 or more ideas from the many interviews, question/answers forum, hint/clues from book, history of area that could be linked in a logical thread.
        Our HOB happens to be three DIFFERENT ideas with nothing in common except they all over lap our search area and have supportive items in poem, interviews, book, and history.
        With all of that we have over 50 ideas linked, yet WE KNOW WE COULD BE SO FAR OFF it is maddening.
        And our faith or religion and where does that get us? More than likely a not so delicious crow bbq sandwich. LOL

  43. Philly –

    So…… how does that get us anywhere – do we draw a line or something – ? I want the light bulb to go on. 🙂

    • Hi Intro, I believe some of us here are just “blogging” our ideas about things. If they help out someone or not, it’s just thoughts. It’s all in fun and the chase; for me anyway. Wishing all searchers safe and exciting memories with boots on the ground.

      • exactly friend…just throwing around some ideas…

        Intothechase…Ha, I am just waiting for a light bulb to go off, But I bet you could make connections to a lot of different things..but I am from Philly and want it to have a connection to there I guess…

        • Actually I think there are hints from Philly – but you have to use the key word – and If I told you that – it would not be pretty. 🙂

          So – happy hunting to you my friend. 🙂

          • howdy folks! hunch here. well Chosendiedem talkin about thumbs and cluesfrompfilly. so i figured id throw this out. covering up philadelphia with his thumb? thats east. but theres a west thumb in yellowstone so maybe thats the hint. not west but go east from thumb. im kind of particular to wyoming since i live here. i never searched the west side of the park, too obvious and crowded with people. im searchin east side, mirror imaged. and beyond.

  44. This is off topic and probably none of my business.. But, …I heard FF sold San Lazaro. Can you confirm and do you know who bought it and he retains interest…like a conservation easement or to Suzanne and her hubby Mr. Somers? LOL 🙂 please forgive me in disparagement is intended. 🙂

    • I think it was in the last interview. There was mention of it being sold but no mention of who to. It’s out of his hands now… 🙂

    • hello chosen, hunch here. yeah its true FF sold San Lazaro. Mike Gramley of the american society of amateur archaeologists can confirm for you. as to who bought it, cant say.

      I just talked to Mike last week. about my cave man hand print on the Point of Rocks thread. Mike said it looks more like a dinosaur track to him and he doesnt deal with dinos. only early human history. so he directed me to Bill Parsons of the Buffalo museum of science, Buffalo new york. then Bill directed me to James Kirkland. a renowned paleontologist from Utah. so, maybe James can figure out what it is.

      I told Mike Gramley it looks like a human hand print that is missing two fingers,probably got bitten off by a t-rex, isnt that early human? he just chuckled and said no, humans werent on this planet the same time as dinosaurs….learn somethin new every day i guess.

    • I spent a while wondering about petrified wood locations, but then stopped after re-reading the poem.

      The line goes “If you ARE brave…”, present tense rather than past tense.

      IMO that excluded it being a hint to petrified, as if you are petrified you are no longer brave.

      • Sid that ain’t right a person could be rummaging through petrified wood and fulfill this line.

        As some have pointed out the poem is ridiculously vague, intentionally so, no one is just going to stumble upon the chest you have to start at the beginning and it’s linear.

        • I’m not ruling out petrified wood as a clue, but I still think it is a stretch to make it fit.

          If you take the word brave as being a reference to the person and not the wood’s condition, then why should ‘in the wood’ refer to fossilised wood?

          As say, it obviously isn’t up to me to decide what is and isn’t a clue, but I do find it a tenuous connection.

          • Well if brave in this context means human courage, I suppose you need to be brave to put your hand under a bush with snakes or thorns, or in a tree hollow with bees or bats. It may even mean ignoring a No Tresspassing sign, or Beware of something sign.
            Somebody should submit a list of actual things that relate brave & wood… so we can get beyond the ordinary and muse on finding some more clever association. (A while back I thought the Indian in the canoe was pretty good. Don’t remember who put it out there.)

      • Sid Sid Sid 🙂

        If you are Frightened where you are searching you have to be Brave 🙂

        Maybe my Imigination is becoming Frightening 🙂

        • I will just Re – Read TTTC 🙂

          I’m getting to know Forrest really well. 🙂

          • lol. I agree if you were frightened where you were looking you would be brave to look there.
            But I was stating that IMO, if the reference of brave is to the person and not a cryptic hint at petrified wood, then there would be no reason to assume that the ‘wood’ we are supposed to be in should be a fossilised wood.

            To address to point of braveness though, since Mr Fenn has stated many times that we shouldn’t look anywhere an 80yo couldn’t get, I had taken that as read that the best route to the treasure probably isn’t too scary. I hope anyways. 🙂

          • Onaut – possibly, but consider that he was an 80yo recovering from cancer carrying 20+lbs.
            As a healthy, athletic, 30 something, I would assume that finding the treasure would be less strenuous than Mr Fenn found hiding it.

            My personal thought is that brave is either a location reference or a red-herring filler referring to the general action of physically perusing the treasure.

            My view anyhow. 🙂

          • I don’t mean to sound like I am belittling Mr Fenn with that statement. I imagine he could put many youngsters to rights as far as fitness is concerned (hence the treasure hunt).

            But going on the experience of my own grandfather, who was a serious physical specimen (original SAS member and spent until he was in 80’s actively building) that by 80 even a super-fit person, when handicapped with a 20lb load will not be capable of the physical feats a fit younger man (initially) carrying only his own weight will generally be able to achieve.

            Add to that the fact he seems to have intended the person who solves to clue to involve their kids in the search (I believe he has said on various occasions that the main reason behind the puzzle was ‘to get kids off their ass’). And I am left thinking that Mr. Fenn did not intend for us to put our kids lives at risk trying to accomplish amazing physical feats.

            As such is why I believe the ‘brave’ reference isn’t refering to ‘hard going’.

            Just my opinion.

  45. All this discussion about what might (used loosely) be hints when the title of this post is to discuss what are the nine clues. Haven’t heard much discussion on what people think are the clues. A few who believe WWWH is the first clue while others think the first clue is in the first stanza. IMO, WWWH is the first clue. Therefore, “And take it in the canyon down” would be clue #2. What are all possible interpretations of that line? What does “it” refer to? “Canyon down”- south, elevation, what other possibilities?

    • That’s right Patrick, so all the people going north into a canyon from their warm water halts are wasting there time.

      • Or all the people thinking that down can only mean south are seriously limiting their options and will never find it if the canyon goes any other direction.

        • Well then you explain how the poem is solvable if down , isn’t south. Thousands have read this poem and yelled “I know where it is” jumped in there vehicle and returned empty handed. I’m not even sure the box is findable even if you do understand the poem. What does your effort will be worth the cold mean? Right now I’m of the opinion this means late fall or early spring (because vegetation might obscure your effort/search) which leads me to another point if your effort means to search then does the poem really lead right to the treasure? If someone is out searching in August or is thinking about it i’d like to hear your rationale for being out there in light of the poem saying your effort will be worth the cold? Wildbirder?

          • Advice from someone who lives in the Rocky Mountains…

            Down has nothing to do with compass headings and everything to do with elevation. Where I live most all canyons descend in a northerly direction. And most creeks and rivers run north. Just look at the Missouri in Montana for example.

            Spring in the upper elevations starts around the beginning of June. Early spring (April/May) is snowpack and harsh weather. At 7500 feet there can still be a foot of snow in June.

            Worth the cold could mean crossing a creek. Even in August the creek water is freakin cold especially at higher elevations.

          • I’ve never read a comment on here that I’ve agreed more with Naught. I’ve given my opinion on both of these matters before and I completely concur with your thoughts on the matters. Cat cut, while south is a possible definition for down, there is a very slim chance that is what the poem means. I firmly believe it refers to elevation. In my solve the canyon goes down to the east. Canyons can go down in any direction. You’ll know which direction down is when you solve WWWH.
            As far as “worth the cold”, I have stated this before and agree with Naught. Forrest has already reiterated the dangers of being in the Rockies during the winter. Summer is the prime time to be out of doors, so I don’t believe at all that cold is referring to time of year. One of the few ways to guarantee that you will get cold during the summer (and possible the only one to guarantee that you will be cold in woods of the Rocky Mountains) would have to involve water. Many streams and rivers in the Rockies stay around 40 degrees year round. So “worth the cold” means that we will be getting wet at some point while searching.

          • when we searched clear creek in the summer of 2013 the water was indeed very cold. we think who ever finds TC will have to cross water that is cold and worth the effort to do so.

          • I believe”cold”, when applied toward the end of the treasure hunt, is an instruction to “see-old”. It is my view that Forrest is telling the searcher to be in the presence of “old” from line four of the Poem.

        • Thanks, Seabee. My favorite “hint” from Forrest is a reply he made to someone asking if the Blaze is a single object. I think his “side note” on the end of the answer is really the hint:

          “As a side note: with summer on the close horizon, searchers should review the rules about being safe in the mountains.f”

          He was responding about the blaze; I see a hint for my solve in “close horizon”.

          • Interesting. I remember reading that but didn’t think of it as a hint. Perhaps I should rethink that. The comment that has been the biggest hint for me was this nugget:

            Q: Someone unfamiliar with your poem receives a message that says “meet me where warm waters halt, somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”. Would they be able to work out where to go? If they can’t, would they need the whole poem, another stanza, or just a line or word to help them on their way?
            ~Phil Bayman

            A: There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them. You over simplify the clues. There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts. f

            This was huge for me. I concluded two things from it: one, that the correct “warm waters” location will not be unique. I do not believe it will be somewhere like Aqua Fria, or the Red River, or any other one-of-a-kind place. If it were, how could warm waters halt in many places? We can also deduce that warm waters definitely halt in New Mexico. Maybe not only in New Mexico, but they are guaranteed to halt there, because he said “nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe”. This drastically narrows down the area that we have to look at. The Rocky Mountains extend only a short distance south of Santa Fe, and since we know that warm waters halt in this small area, we can discover what warm waters means.

          • seabee-

            I don’t understand how that remark and your conclusion drastically reduces the search area for you. It seems to me the search area is still the same…everything on his map north of Santa Fe…
            Why do you think it is now drastically reduced?

          • I may have worded that poorly. We know that warm waters halt in the Rocky Mountains south of Santa Fe. The Rocky Mountains do not extend very far south of Santa Fe, so by looking at this relatively small geographic area and knowing that warm waters halt there, I believe we can determine what warm waters means and then apply that to the entire search area.

          • Does anyone recall F stating that the treasure wasn’t at the top of a mountain, but that it could be close to the top. Thank you.

          • seabee,

            I just came across your post, and as much as I like it, and have thought the same. I see a small flaw.

            Yes i can see the poem’s “end is ever drawing nigh” meaning the end if the Rockies or very near. But to say it’s “definitely” that warm waters halt is in New Mexico is just a guess. Why?

            As you stated and from fenn’s answer…there are many WWWH in the Rocky Mountains and nearly all of them are North of SF. For your “definitely” to ring true… there “can not” be any other WWWH above the Colorado – New Mexico border.

            Especially if you’re using halt as in stop. The mountain range may stop in NM. but the waters continue. And If the poem is so straightforwards as to be talking about waters that halt, as in “stop”. This just doesn’t quite work.

            I have thought in the past that the End is ever drawing nigh to mean the Border of CO. and NM. using the definition of end as a border or boundary line. [ I know you like definitions as much as I do ] And this does give you an actual place.

            With out knowing your solve… the only conclusion to WWWH just in NM and North of SF is still a needle in a hay stack… just in a smaller area.

            So how could you find an exact location of WWWH without guessing, even if you have narrowed it down to just the Mountain Range in NM.?

            For me that is still the same as trying to find a single WWWH in any part of the Range.

            But then again, I could be completely wrong, as I do not believe WWWH is the first clue… In fact I think it may actually be the Third clue.

      • I think that the North we are supposed to go is hob.
        Draw a little house, LOL then put an “N” under it and it becomes like the legend key on a map

    • Spallies 🙂

      I’m taking a little time to think on my own. Although we try to help one another here to an extent, it’s just too much info for me to process. 🙂 I’m trying to think straight forward instead of up and down and all around. See that’s what happens when my Boots are on the ground I’m all over the place. I tell myself to Focus, and today I’m thinking Petrified ha ha ha. 🙂 I’m in the Twlight Zone 🙂

      One more search is coming soon. 🙂
      Let’s all wish Slurbs Good Fortunes as he searches this weekend and to have a safe adventure. 🙂

      Right now : All I do is play Peek -A – Boo on the blog 🙂

      • People watching is the most fun Amy. Just try driving around in circles and looking at all the confused looks it’s really fun. Remember the treasure is neither here nor there is where you find.

    • It is also possible, as it is strictly one sentence that “Begin it where warm waters halt, and take it in the canyon down” are actually just one clue written to appear as two.

      It is one of the routes I am keeping an eye for.

      • wwwh is the crux, everything after is much easier but only makes sense if you have figured out wwwh. canyon down appears to be an important clue but is ust a guider

        • I agree that without a very specific WWWH you’ll be chasing your own tail (as I have done for three years, both mentally and on the ground). Even then, it may not be as easy as one expects. I also think that, despite the wild speculation about the infamous cushion, “middle” is a very important hint.

          • Vox middle has been discussed ad infinitum. Fenn is tight lipped about that really could be anything…in between two rocks/trees etc…on and on…………Waiste of time.

          • Closed earth its only a waste of his time if its not there. if it doesnt work for your solve but works for him who know either one of you could find it. we all are trying to find the same thing the TC and are trying to help ourselves as we help each other. good luck to all.

          • I agree it’s a waste of time, unless your solution can make sense of it. At the moment it’s at the heart of my intended search area (pun intended).

          • The cushion in the middle has less wear. Seem like the left side has the most use so I would assume that is where Forrest sits. The one on the right has less wear so I’m going with Forrest dog or maybe Peggy sits there IMO

          • Nice that’s juicy. Turquoise being my favorite color and all. By chasing your own tail, doesn’t that depends on which way you’re spinning?

  46. So, Cat Cut, you think down means South, correct? Just trying to clarify. Could someone not go N if from WWWH the canyon is lower in elevation than WWWH begins?

    • Yes down mean south IMO, definitionally though you are correct, it could be referring to a lower elevation BUT what I’m looking for is hidden meaning in the poem otherwise the surface text isn’t going to get you there. There are dozens of canyons we could go verticaly into.

        • seebee and catcut,, I had a friend from connecticut that would use the word down in an odd way,, She would say something t the effect, Will you take me down to the store ? I always thought it was strange to put down in the sentince
          but what do i know about proper grammar.

        • Sea bee that comment about www halt south of Santa fee I didn’t understand , why did u come up with that? I have been thinking befor about that but he said warm waters holt north of Santa fee ? I would appreciate if u would be kinde and explain it again to me .english is my second language , I wasn’t very good in first one too lol thank u

      • Catcut – Have you considered that ‘in the canyon down’ may not be a directional reference at all?

        It may be a reference to a canyon with a name that means ‘down’ in some way. For example (and I’m making these names up) Canyon Debajo, Arroyo Sud etc.

        • Maybe I’m not supposed to read that comment since it’s addressed to someone else…but I did anyway and I like it…nice idea Sid…

          • ha. Your the boss here Dal. 🙂
            I’d say as the owner you have the right to read any comments.

            I only address comments to infer the reply to a previous post, not to say it is private. 🙂

        • I have but do you think that would fall into the straightforward category? Listen, anything is possible i’m just looking for a reasonable solution and I think Forrest probably designed this thing around a map, so down meaning South makes sense. If down is a name or the letters have to be matched up with numbers from the 1958 Montanna Gazzete to figure out then it’s imperative we start at the right warm waters halt.

          • I personally agree that there is no hidden code to this puzzle. And tend to favor locations with a southern canyon.

            I’m just throwing the possibility’s out there that it may be a location clue rather than a direction clue. Similar to how many think the ‘brave and in the wood’ reference relate to petrified wood.

            All the best on your hunting Cat Cut (and everyone else) 🙂

      • we think it could be south but if you are in a canyon you are lower than the rim. you are already DOWN in the canyon.

  47. Are you all aware of Letterboxing? Most TTOTC enthusiast probably would really love to do this and can be done in your own area or wherever you travel. I’m new to the Chase and likely still on the surface level of the poem, but am not new to following clues to find hidden treasures. But this is definitely the King of all Letterboxes!!! For now, I’m sticking with the clues in the Poem, follow FF advice about re-reading it often and will go back to reading TTOTC again to assist with understanding the clues.

  48. One more thing . . . Just want to clarify and if anyone has any links to clarify my question would be great. Is it true that WWWH is definitely NOT related to a dam or man made structure? Or, was that comment related to the treasure itself?

    • Many searchers have thought that warm waters halt at a dam because water being released through flues near the bottom of the dam is much colder than water on the surface of the lake. I have discussed around that subject with several people in the last few days and am concerned that not all searchers are aware of what has been said. So to level the playing field to give everyone an equal chance I will say now that WWWH is not related to any dam. ff

  49. That eliminates one of my WWWH starting spot- Conchas Dam – Canadian River (warm water) stopping at Conchas Dam. He said the treasure is N of Sante Fe, never that WWWH is N of Sante Fe.

    • One of the things I’ve often wondered is if all of the clues can be found on the map from the book.

      Also if google earth\maps gives you views and labels you would need.

      As an example, I came across a reference to a ‘House of Brown’ just below Abiquiu reservoir in a blog about fly fishing the Rio Chama. So far I can’t find a map with the location named on it though 🙁

      Makes me wonder if looking for the clues from satellite may be largely wasted effort. Not that I plan on stopping. lol.

      • You could very likely get this information by downloading the appropriate USGS quad map…

        • That was one of my first tries. No joy.
          Figure it must be the nick name of some fishing spot or building there.

          Name was “casa de plata marrón”, or “House of Silver Brown” if anyone is interested.

  50. I have to admit. WWWH is driving me crazy! Right? One min. I think I know, than I know nothing and I am crying. I have searched to the End of the Internet! And I know where warm waters halt…I do I do….in many area’s. ….But which one? Well its below the home of Brown….I am like forrest, walls and walls of Books and a few great old maps. I read and read and i am exhausted….Oh and Toledo…I feel I do know what that is. And like forrest said; It does not mean much but it means a little. IMO……Still means something…..Small clue.
    Good Luck everyone.

    Lou Lee, chased by Bears in Montana and Wyoming and lived to tell the tale.

  51. Sanity check; I know the poem better than my social security #, I have a autographed hat from a bunch of nice people who gave me a ride from my search area, I halt at all warm waters, everything Brown is a suspect, and my best friend is a talking invisible rabbit named Harvey.

  52. First time poster here. I do not believe the following is part of the correct solution as I am of the opinion the poem is more abstract. So I thought I’d throw it out there, maybe it will get some interesting discussion.

    A possible Home of Brown could be the old Valmora Sanitorium in Valmora NM. It was founded and run by a Dr. William T. Brown as a place for “Lungers”, people with tuberculosis to recover. In that respect, it is a “home”.

    This could allow the Fort Union Memorial to be WWWH halt as it was a stopping (halting) place on the Navajo Long March. The “Long March” has also been referred to as the Navajo’s “Trail of Tears”. Note that the Santa Fe Trail does go from Fort Union to Watrous NM, very close to the Valmora Sanitiorium. It is a little more than 12 miles, too far to walk? However, the canyon down part doesn’t really fit.

    It could also allow WWWH to be the Eagle’s Nest area. That solves the canyon down part

    Near the sanitorium are some railroad tracks (heavy loads?) Also, the Mora River runs through there and there is some history of “high waters” causing some deaths of locals including sanitorium people.

    Branching off the Mora river is Dog Creek…there will be no paddle (dog paddle?) up your creek. It looks dry. Also there is some history that some caves along the Dog Creek were a hiding place for some outlaws.

    That’s about it.

    • Oh forgot…this is on the very edge of what would be considered the search area and the Dog Creek / Mora River is about 10 miles north of Santa Fe. Hmmmm.

      • Interesting, looking at a topo map I wonder how many clicks to reach the center? Oh never mind, what I was thinking was 3 and it doesn’t apply.

    • Ever hear ‘living high on the hog’ or ‘down on the farm’… i doubt the highs & downs refer to elevation or direction. ditto for warm and other descriptors.

  53. Not sure where to put this but I thought it was interesting that under the description of Spirits of The Arts book on Forrest’s website it says “assembled over 50 years by noted art dealer Forrest Fenn and his father” not that it means anything I just never knew his father was into collecting as much as he was…

      • into-
        Did you scroll down to the bottom pic?
        My comment was in reference to that kid carefully doing something with the new little cache… 🙂

        • And a cute little one at that. She,s probably saying” Daddy Iets put the big yellow stone in and take the scribble book and pen.”.. 🙂

  54. According to TTOTC Eric Sloane died waiting for a light to change. Someone else claimed he died on a porch. Is this a red herring?

    • dont know. I googled the obit several years ago and it said front steps of hotel I think. .

  55. @wildbirder….thanks! I’ve been wondering what some camp food ideas would be, hoping for a side bar soon on this very subject….along with must have supplies, gadgets, etc.

    • on our trial trip to galveston we come to the conclusion that having dinner for breakfast example tacos (taco meat precooked then placed in tostia scoop/bowl chips with cheese on top or spaghetti was the better idea.we stay full longer.
      by the end of a hot long day cereal in cold milk was the best and easiest dinner. it took up move room but i took the boys to Krogers where we could buy bowls of pre packaged cereal. pull top off top add milk and plastic spoon. it a hurry or hungry can be eaten without milk. comes in healthy favors and not so healthy. i like to make egg salad and tuna for first three days of trip, then pimento cheese followed by peanut butter and jelly. and as a very last resort 40.00 dollars worth of lunch meat that made 25 sandwiches. again it takes up room and creates trash but snack size chips from krogers or sams are great. we also brought fruit cups from del monte, pudding cups, go-yurts and sams had a great 36 count box of cookies, snack crackers that last 7 times for the whole trip. we had plenty of food lost weight and felt great. we also used the small water like at home NO USE BIG BOTTLES if it is HOT. to keep food cold i froze large containers of water old oj juice jugs etc. the flatter on sizes the better. when defrosted you can pour out water fill with bag ice

  56. I haven’t seen this posted anywhere before, so thought I would share it.

    Has anyone ever heard of “The Fenn Cache”?

    Apparently Mr. Fenn bought what at the time was one of the largest collections of Clovis artifacts.

    Hope is helpful to someone.

    PS. If folk haven’t guessed yet, I’m not an active searcher. There is no way I could afford to ‘put boots on the ground’ to try and actually find the chest. I just see this as an interesting puzzle to try and solve, and appreciate the excuse to study what is frankly one of the most amazing geographical areas on the planet. As such I post my thinking’s as they come to me, rather than holding off in case I lead someone else to the trove. Apologies if sometimes I ramble.

    Happy hunting all 🙂

    • Sid-
      That’s been brought up on the blog several times but it’s always worth showing to folks who have not seen it.
      There is a book out (out of print) on the Fenn Cache (The Fenn Cache) and there was a sensational poster showing the points.
      Forrest sold the cache several years ago.
      One of the magnificent things Forrest did when he had the cache was allow scientists to have practically unrestricted access to it for study and analysis. He could have locked it away in a sealed mayonnaise jar for his own amusement, which is what often happens to these prehistoric objects. But Forrest understood that they are both stunning to view…hence the book and poster, and invaluable to folks trying to understand how north americans came here.

  57. An exploration and journey can enrich the soul. The soul is the center of your universe. It is a circular journey with no end or beginning, like the spiral. Is the center the end, or beginning? We each have our own answer. In the end, we find the beginning. Maybe, just maybe, we can understand the chase if we start inside. I have whispered, who will hear? € Peace €

        • im a rebel because I dislike tax as by very definition it is theft nomatter what good it is spent on, the state, the gubbermint, pointless rules and regulations. so I guess mentally I am a rebel….but at the same time I am against damage to the environment and warmongering. if I could pass one law it would be the banning of plastic wrappers etc!!!lol

          I have always critiqued things to the nth degree, im the type of guy that if 100 people tell me I am wrong about something, I always question what they are saying. I am the opposite of a “sheeple” that just follows the crowd. if 1000 people tell me I should invest in real estate- my 1st thought is that they are probably wrong. if the gubbermint tells me I should invest in a pension then my default position is to do the opposite.

          like mr fenn- I am a libertarian at heart, people can believe in whatever they want providing they don’t FORCE me or other people to believe in what they believe is right.

          so the above describes the word rebel in my moniker 🙂 rovrum you will have to figure out 😉

          • come on JD…im sure a person who is a serious chaser can THINK and figure this little conundrum out. think of it as a warm up to the main event 😉

          • Unfortunately in a world w/o gubbermint and taxes, arbitrary power & bribery fills the void. Survival reverts to tribalism, no man is an island.

        • Hmmm now JDiggins got me stuck on counting syllables… But my mind got blury so I had to stop counting…

  58. today is one of those days where i read and re-read the blog posting. 7 hrs of work and a few postings of my own. i don’t see how Mr. Fenn could read all the blog and other postings with his head exploding.
    one thing i just started doing (more paper work YUKKY) is i am copying all the web addresses to a page and a little note after each one to know what it about. little like a key to web sites. i dont know how long it will take to go back through on the site and make note of these but it has already helped me four times in three day to be able to check something said. dal may have something to this effect but i have not seen it.

  59. I agree, SidJames, wildbirder has some excellent, practical advice. I shall be going out there again, early September, and will try to follow a few of those tips.

    Having made some extraordinary discoveries the past few days, I’m very excited to be heading back into the Rockies. I have no delusions, though. Although I think I now have a truly exceptional spot which is no more than 100 feet square, I have already been setting the crow traps!

    And this time, I want to have more FUN! There were so many tantalizing and beautiful spots that I flew past on my previous forays, and this time I want to take in more of the marvels.

    Oh, and Sid, carry on… deciphering? 😉

    • where did you get your crow traps or can i borrow yours when we get back empty handed in Aug.? lol

      • Now there’s a great business idea – we could sell thousands of them to disgruntled searchers! Are you up for it – we could call it “The Wildbirder”? Maybe sprinkle a few ads on the blogs.

        Here are the plans:

        Sorry, Goofy, veering off topic, I know…

        • voxpop those are real i thought you were kidding. i not crazy about people using sparrow traps. i guess tho if your are going to bbq a few you have catch them first. yukky

          • I was just kidding, wildbirder! I honestly didn’t think there was such a thing as a crow trap, but a quick google search proved me very wrong! I’m one of those live and let live people, and wouldn’t dream of trapping a bird – until I’m forced to eat crow… 😉

            Anyway, back on topic. It’s not in NM (IMO) – just not cold enough!

          • Mainly Wyoming, but not exclusively. My current thinking takes me beyond that state’s borders (way beyond, in fact!).

    • @voxpops – lol. Is rare these days for someone to know who Sid James and the Carry-Ons were. Kudos 🙂

      Id go for ‘Carry On Cracking’, slightly better alliteration. 🙂

      • Lol – I like it!

        Yes, I’m from the Tony Hancock / Hatti Jacques era. Growing old here in Oregon, it seems like another world now. Trouble is, in the hunt, we could use a Sherlock rather than a Sid; this poem is way too hard a nut to crack without a touch of manic genius. Maybe we should send it to Stephen Hawking…

  60. Sorry to take up nine clues space, forgive me oh great and powerful oz, but why is it that dals, mindy’s and jenny blogs all load fine, but trying to log on to chasechat I literally get error messages now for about 2 weeks now? Can’t load. Mindy’s blog indicates it’s still up…pro Fenners here, please let me know if I’m missing anything important ( chase related, of course).

  61. Well, rovr, I can’t spare a square.

    Unless ur forrest, I gotta save my remaining brain cells. 🙂

  62. Maybe WWWH is the end.

    We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.

    T. S. Eliot

  63. I plan to ask ff on his email if I have the question that no one so far has asked.

    Forrest recently stated that there was one question that no one seems to have asked, but I assure you we are all thinking it, just not announcing it, that question is actually very simple, and let’s see if he answers?

    ff has said we will all be surprised when it is found, seems this question is along those lines. So wish me luck….

    Tom T

    • “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses,


      cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f” 

      • Seeker… Good point even a three year old today probably knows what Google Earth is…

        • “…it became the dominant language, initially in Italy and subsequently throughout the Roman Empire. Vulgar Latin developed into the Romance languages, such as …[French]…, Italian, Portuguese,… [Spanish]…, and Romanian. Latin and French have contributed many words to English. Latin and Greek roots are used in theology, biology, and medicine.”

          Latin….Guilty by association… “will not assist anyone to the treasure location… f”

  64. I plan to ask ff on his email if I have the question that no one so far has asked.

    Forrest recently stated that there was one question that no one seems to have asked, but I assure you we are all thinking it, just not announcing it, that question is actually very simple, and let’s see if he answers?

    ff has said we will all be surprised when it is found, seems this question is along those lines. So wish me luck….

    Tom T

    Forrest, it took me a while to get up the wording and courage to ask you this, but here goes:

    In the poem which I will call for lack of any other title, “The Thrill”, do many of the words (metaphors) which represent places (CLUES) that you wrote about, words like “No place for the meek” require an understanding of that place in another language, like say Spanish?

    My solve for that line is the word “Cimarron” which means “Wild” in Spanish. It is wild and No place for the meek

    In a nutshell, there are many other words, even French words in my Solve?

    Tom Terrific

    • Tom, your last sentence/question makes no sense. Are you asking f if French is used in your solve? What kind of question is that? That’s like me asking you, “Do I work with a wrench?”

      • Tom –

        In the last sentence – you wrote it as a statement – and then placed a question mark after it – ? I really don’t know “how” he would know what your solve is. If you wrote him before and expect him to remember – I think that is a problem.

        You added so much to the question – like metaphors and clues – when I think all you really want to know is if there is a word that could be translated into Spanish or French.

        As that is an easy thing for you to research – why ask him.

        • Tom –

          Just one more little thing – I don’t remember FF saying no one has asked a certain question. If he did could you please post a source?

          I do remember this quote –

          “On February 4th, 2015 in Six Questions Yet Again with Forrest Fenn, Forrest said that, ‘nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve.’

          PS Tom – I like Cimarron being wild AND crazy.

        • into,

          the question to ff is, or will it be necessary to translate his poem words into another language to solve the riddle of the Thrill?

          Almost all words can be translated the trick is to know, or SUSPECT which ones, it could be as simple as using English from 150 years ago, but it would be helpful to us if we keep in mind that all languages evolve and become changing things, like connotations, overtone, undertone, undercurrent, implication, hidden meaning, nuance, hint, echo, vibrations, association, intimation, suggestion, suspicion, insinuation
          “there was a connotation of distrust in his voice”

          the abstract meaning or intension of a term, which forms a principle determining which objects or concepts it applies to.

          So to say “In Fenn Speak”.

          Tom T

          • hey Tom –

            You go for it – best of luck to you – I would love to hear how he answers you. Hope you post it here.

          • @TomTerrific, I once chased “aguas tibia” to be warm waters halting, tibia halts at the talus, archaeology, Bessie the calf, suggesting the TALUS sign near the west entrance at Madison Notch was the beginning point. I liked it because too far to walk was just a little bit downstream (Nine Mile Hole). My efforts in there turned cold.


            Good luck with non-English language synonyms. I’ve not had a lot of luck with them.

      • Slurbs, the way to make sense is a lot like your name, did you create that from other words?

        ff said he does this all the time, so many words and yet he admits he creates new ones? Where do they originate? Imagination is more important than knowledge, is it not?

        I only ask about the French Connection above to try and relate this important point of reference his use of vocabulary..

        Tom T

    • How about thinking about “wild” in another language? Let’s use English as “another language.” Wild… Would you say “crazy” is the same as “wild” in an other English language? Example, I have a brother who is WILD. I describe him as being CRAZY. Crazy, not in mind, but in action. Hense, CRAZY is English for WILD (English, yes, but a different English). Another way youth of today say wild/CRAZY in English is “Cray Cray.” Who is to say what is correct when it comes to English? Keep in mind, f says, I bend a little.” All I have said is in my opinion and it is also in my opinion that f may Answer a simple “Yes” or in considering all of the multiple “other” uses of any given language, just choose to not answer to avoid subterfuge… IMO of course.

    • Tom,

      I agree with into that the wording of your question has become too convoluted, and it has too many assumptions that complicate the question’s intent. It’s better to keep it straightforward and simple.

      I don’t believe he will answer that. You are essentially asking if the treasure chest is in New Mexico or not, which has a preponderance of non-English place names. It is way too big of a hint, or narrowing of scope.

      I believe some have questioned whether the need to translate something from another language into English falls under the heading “no special knowledge is required” which he provided previously. I don’t think that it requires special knowledge to make a simple translation from, for example Spanish, because virtually everyone has the tools at hand to do so- at least they do now. When Forrest began the poem, he would not be thinking that everyone has a translator at their fingertips…

      But good luck with the question.


      • Halo, Thanks, but many of those “places” existed before he wrote the “Thrill” poem and everyone knows that most of the places in the rockies were called by “Native American” names, Spanish names, French etc long before we re-badged them in English, so which is it for us?FF, just grope or (Groupe) See french definition, in the dark or should we shine a light on his vocabulary? He is an Architect of words and I ask, since he uses language like Tarry Scant, Put in etc what are the metaphors from, you know which language?

        That is what I asked, is it too much for anyone to not see how important that could be?

        Tom T

        • Tom, if you get a reply, then great, but to my mind the most important thing is to establish WWWH. Everything follows from that.

          • you are correct. without the correct WWWH, you are guessing at the HoB. this then makes the rest impossible. put 100% of your efforts into finding WWWH

          • ararebird, Kudos and a very logical answer that is what ff might tell me..

  65. Concerning the question that no one has asked Forrest…..could it be, “Are you the person talking in the poem (ie, “As I have gone alone in there” and “I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak.”)? Or is this some other person or entity speaking?

  66. Samsmith i am sorry my comment wa said in haste & i am tried. I should have left my anger out & just said REALLY????

  67. Hey folks,

    Been doing my daily map scanning and come across a location I haven’t seen before for a possible ‘No Place For The Meek’.

    Has anyone ever looked at the town of Billings in Montana?

    It is just up/down the canyon from where the Stillwater River joins the Yellowstone River (WWWH?), and has a district named after every planet except Earth. As the meek would inherit the Earth, not the rest of the solar system, this would qualify it IMO as ‘No Place For The Meek’.

    Also ‘Billings’ is a slang term for a soldiers digs\accommodation. Often used to apply when small or individual soldiers are housed with local families. (As I have gone in there alone?)

    A long shot, but thought it may help some.

    Happy hunting all 🙂

    • That’s a neat correlation between “no place for the meek” and the solar system minus Earth. It had never crossed my mind to consider the other planets in relation to the meek iunheriting the earth. Great snippet of info re Billings in that regard.

      As for the soldiers’ accommodation, isn’t the word billets (and therefore billeting)?

        • Actually, I owe you thanks, SidJames! You’ve just confirmed one of my clue interpretations, which I was approaching from a different angle. I think I’m on the right track!

      • Hmmm. could have been tbh. I’m was recalling from memory terms my grandad used to describe places he stayed during WW2. Was sure the 2 main terms he used were ‘billings’ and ‘digs’. But with the thick accent he had, and fact I never asked him to write the word down, it could have been ‘billets’.

        Willing to strike that correlation off, as at best I guess ‘billings’ would have to have been a local term (if not just me miss-correcting his pronunciation).

        Thanks for the clarification there Voxpops 🙂

  68. To be “wise” is to be knowledgeable. Does anyone believe we must be knowledgeable about a particular subject to find the blaze? If so, what subject?

  69. hi folks this will sound crazy but we are going to NM tomorrow. we r not going to the TC. this is a three day by our selves to have some time. we are going to check out where we are going to stay and other ideas. check a camp site as a second op. mainly we need a few days to our selves and we want to check the area before our trip in three weeks. we plan to sleep till we wake up and just go hiking in peace and quiet. we are also checking out the weather in our area.

    • Marie –

      I hope this mini vacation will be everything you want it to be –

      Have fun girl, you deserve it.

      • thanks into. we plan to check a lot of stuff. we were planning to go south and stay in TX then we got talking and decided to check our area for issues before we go there with coty

        • Marie –

          You might want to pick up a Topo map while you are there – they are around 10.00 dollars and now come in a book form – not individual pages like before. Great investment.

  70. Just throwing some stuff around. Below the home of Brown as a clue. Colorado’s motto is Nil Sine Numine, which translates to “Nothing without Providence”. Brown University is in Providence RI. So either below Colorado on a map or below in Colorado…

      • Technically yeah, but metaphors could help you. Brown university can be expendable. Like using IVY, or New England. Maybe there is a large or particular Ivy plant near where the treasure is. You can expand Ivy to IV(4).. This could be the reason why we need to study the poem and book so much (Ivy leave schooling), or the “Do Not Touch” in red letters, because of poison ivy?..

  71. Uken2it,
    I personally can not develop any logical solution using methods like that. It just seems to me that the more you complicate the poem, the farther away you get from the correct solve. When you start going 3 and 4 four movements with words the options become infinite. For the same reason I don’t believe the distance between the clues can be that far apart, nor that any of clues are outside of the search area. The more distance that you assume is between clues, the more solve options you have and the more your chances of “guessing” the correct solve diminish. This is all my opinion though. I’m anxious to see what the correct solve is.

    Hammertime- no metaphors, for the same reasons mentioned above. The more you convolute the poem, the more options for interpreting it wrong you have and the further from the correct solve you get. Just simple, straightforward words that mean what they mean. WWWH is where warm waters actually halt, “canyon down” is actually a canyon,
    HoB is where Brown lives, “put in” is where you enter the water, and so on.

    Uken2it- thanks for that article. I am very fortunate enough to live in Melbourne where the treasure hunters who found that live and where it is on display. I am a scuba diver and beach-combing metal detector user so that is how I currently treasure hunt. I’m planning on spending next summer out West though so I can search for this one.

      • I totally agree. However, I’m new to the Chase. IMO, the longer you are on the Chase, the more obscure the solve becomes or the more time passes the more complicated solves become. No one has found it in 5 years! Some really great minds have not cracked this yet. But I do think the solve is pretty straight forward.

        • That’s an interesting perspective Patrick. I’ve been doing this for 3 years now (haven’t been out searching yet since I’m on the east coast, but I’m getting out next summer) and personally for me things have become clearer and simpler as time has gone on. I realized I had to take a step back go where the clues led me, rather than picking an area an trying to make the clues fit. I really do believe it might be in Yellowstone, but I just can’t get the clues to work there so I had to move on.

    • Seabee,
      I think that your analysis of solving the poem is sound. I lean toward the straightforward solutions that I think you present, rather than the more complex. I do not discount either when I go on my treasure hunts.

    • cb88

      well said- it all needs to “streamline”

      thought- where Brown lives, and is. Call it a symbiosis. mo

      I used to dive commercially for oysters in the Chesapeake Bay. Did some tropic reefing. Certified since forever.

    • Seabee88,

      I have been backing away from the blogs for a bit… But you post some very good question and responses. So I would like to add some thoughts to what you just said.

      I’m not going to debate straightforwards. But could it be that those words in the poem, are not what is needed to be done, as much as needed to be understood?
      People have talk about “IT” and what is being taking down… Is it us, the searchers? is it the chest? is it a direction to travel? N,S,E,W or lower level ?
      ff has stated no one to his knowledge has got pass the first two clues. And has stated, those folks went by, walked past the other seven. And I’ll add, he said, A comprehensive knowledge of geography might help. So are we the searchers or the chest going down… or … could it be, the straightforwards thing is, The Water[s] ?

      As you just stated; you don’t believe the clues are that far in distance. Can all the answers to the clues be in the same spot? and why everyone seems to be going by the other seven. Why is it we all seem to think the poem is telling US what to DO, and not the poem telling of something that is happening or has happened. So what exactly is being taking down the canyon.

      Why will we “know the place for the first time” after we have done our exploring? Could ” knowing where to start”… be the end.

      I don’t think we are supposed to Do what the poem seems to be telling us. I think the poem is telling us what the waters Does.

      Ponder on that for a moment.

      • I’d never thought before about all the clues being related to the same spot. Nice idea 🙂

        Quickly reading through the poem, it could possibly be describing the things you could see from the location.
        “Take it in”, could be meaning ‘Take in the view” I guess.

        Interesting possibility. Next map-hunt I do I’m gonna try that idea. 🙂

      • As always good thoughts Seeker. Its never a good idea to get locked into one way of seeing things. I doubt that Forrest used that kind of approach in life. He traveled the path least worn. So why expect the poem to be any different?

        I love all the passion of new searchers, we have all been there havent we? Good luck everyone!

      • That is an interesting approach Seeker, and good thinking. For me, the clues are directions that make sense. One right after the other, not in the same spot, but that is just the way the poem speaks to me. I did find it interesting when he said that people had missed the third clue, and wondered what that could be. My third clue is HoB, and when I have read some of the other solves on here and looked at my solve, it made sense how people could go right past it. I don’t particularly like when people say cryptic things and offer up no useful information so I will say that Brown for me is Brown Trout. I know that very few people agree with that conclusion but that is the conclusion I have come to. I have said it before but I believe that if Brown was a person then through research we would be able to find Brown and proceed with the clues from there, making WWWH and “canyon down” completely unnecessary. I also believe this is why Forrest has said that finding and starting WWWH has to be first. Just as there are many places where warm waters halt, I believe there are many homes of Brown. In my solve, WWWH is a specific, defined spot, as is the HoB and the “put in” below the HoB. I believe this is why people missed the third clue. They went to far down the canyon and didn’t know where the HoB ended. This is just my analysis, but every one of the clues for me is an instruction of what to do and where to do it.

        • Seabee88, you make some valid points, but if you believe it is as literal as you suggest, then you have to be able to point to THE facts. In other words, out of all the places where warm waters halt (ends of rivers, geysers, clouds, tears, springs, continental divide, basins, etc.) you must be able to identify the correct one from the words in the poem. The same goes for the other clues, of course. The problem, as I see it, is that everyone comes up with a different start point based on seeing all sorts of (usually somewhat stretched) Browns, meeks, ends, nighs, paddles, loads and highs in the general vicinity – and for anyone who has been doing this a while, you find there are an amazing number of those places up and down the Rockies.

          The alternative is to clear your mind – and your atlas – and start afresh, with a more imaginative and wide-ranging view. There have been some interesting hints dropped by Forrest, which can be helpful, but in a way all that extra stuff can get confusing. I haven’t read any of his books, but I have been studying the poem and the map for three years, and have had BOG five times. It’s only in the last few weeks that I’ve made some fascinating discoveries based on taking a new approach. I won’t go into detail at this stage because I intend to check out my hypothesis soon, but I’ve made suggestions on here in relation to a way to think about the poem. Suffice to say that, if I’m right (and that’s a huge IF), the words are not so straightforward, but the solution is, and visualization is important when it comes to studying the poem.

          • You make some excellent points Vox. I agree that do have to identify the correct one. I also agree that while there have been a few very useful hints given by Mr. Fenn, I take most of the things he says at face value, just stories he is telling, and I don’t try to dissect his every statement and try and find a clue in it. I will say, for most of your examples of where warm waters halt (I know they aren’t just your examples, I have seen them mentioned many times), such as tears, basins, the continental divide, clouds, etc., I just don’t understand how those can work. Some of these I just don’t see how they can be twisted to mean warm waters, and some just lead to huge, broad places. If your solve is a basin, how do you decide which canyon to go down? Or how do you decide on the exact spot on the continental divide? I also don’t believe it can refer to temperature, because what is warm for one person will not be warm for another.

      • We’re talking here about how the poem works, how the clues work. I believe that Forrest has, multiple times and very emphatically, given an incredibly revealing clue to the nature of the poem. Not a hint that will help solve a particular clue, but an actual clue as to the way that the poem that he has “crafted” works. “It is an architectural plan.” While it is actually a poem, he is not saying that the poem is like an architectural plan, he is saying that it IS one. The other thread addresses thoughts about the architectural plan, but it suits the thread here at the moment. I’ll put this in the architectural plan thread as well…

        So what does “It is an architectural plan” imply?

        An architectural plan takes a long time to develop, and includes all kinds of meaning and information. It is not simply a drawing- that is the medium, whether done by hand (a rarity these days) or on the computer. One primary difference we can get out of the way up front is that most architectural plans are the culmination of a team effort, usually multiple coordinated teams, and yet the Poem is the work of only one, as we understand it. So Forrest is working in the classic manner of the solo architect, completely responsible for the initial conceptual design, the schematic and design development, every detail, and lastly to the final set-in-ink plan.

        Forrest used the singular word plan, not plans. So let’s focus on the architectural plan. There are many people who look at an architectural plan and cannot “read” or understand it. They may have a sense of how the planimetric footprint they are looking at corresponds to some future real building or place, they might recognize the doors, walls, windows and other elements, but they do not simultaneously comprehend both the “big picture”, which Forrest suggested we look at, yet also the multitude of detail and graphic information, the symbols, the specialized jargon, etc. An experienced architect will understand all of these things, and immediately recognize how to use the plan to actually set forces in motion to make a real building which is many times the size of the drawing, and a contractor must be able to read the plan as well (or he won’t have a paddle up his creek).

        The plan is to a particular SCALE. This is critical. It is also critical that the person reading the plan understand the legend(s), or key(s), on the plan. Taken together they are an integral whole, and they work together. But the plan is very “straightforward” and logical. There is no extraneous material, you need “every word” so to speak. It’s meant to be as absolutely clear as possible, and not open for interpretation. That is a difference between the intent of the architectural plan- little room for interpretation, and the intent of the poem- much room for interpretation. But still a plan nonetheless.

        So we have the Poem. Forrest’s chosen and perhaps best analogy is that it’s an architectural plan. He “felt like an architect drawing that poem.” Very elegant terms. So I believe that is in fact how the Poem works. He has stated that the Poem is “contiguous.” Again, that is a critical aspect of an architectural plan- it is incredibly contiguous. If there is any brokenness to it, you have huge problems. Everything is interconnected, very dense. And the plan does not work like a sequential path, hopping from clue A (architectural element A) to clue B (architectural element B), etc. It is an unbroken whole. And the Poem as well must have scale. How big is the geographical area that the poem is attributed to?

        So instead of all of the architectural graphics, symbols, lines and legends of the plan, Forrest is using words, phrases, rhyme. A different medium for the message. There is no legend outside of the poem, unless you believe that TTotC or tftw contains one, and he has emphasized over and over that all you need is the poem. He’s said there are hints in the book, and he has narrowed certain aspects of the chase with comments and answers, and there may be hints concealed elsewhere. That’s for you to shake out. But the poem itself, he says, “It is an architectural plan.”

        A plan for what?

        Not a building. But a contiguous place in the landscape, in nature. You are not going to go and build something physical out in nature using his plan, rather you need to use his plan to understand (conceptually rebuild) the existing place he is describing, or “the places that the clues refer to”. It’s already built! In a sense, it’s a backwards process from the architectural plan. With the architectural plan you can step by step, logically create a new building. But the analogy with the poem is that our ‘building’, rather the geography, nature itself, already exists, and he’s going back to the drawing board and drafting up a plan of it for you with words and clues.

        The sense I have, based upon this powerful concept provided by Forrest (and the poem itself), is not that he’s describing a path for Hansel and Gretel to take, from here to there to there, and so on. He is using a poem, understood as an “architectural plan”, to describe a place that is contiguous and unbroken.

        If you understand his plan, you can recreate in your own mind the actual place in nature from which he has modeled it. Forrest’s process, I believe, was like taking an existing old building, measuring it up, and trying to create a new plan that describes it accurately. Only instead of a precise plan telling everyone how to read it clearly, Forrest’s plan has challenging Clues, not concrete actualities. It is not as literal or straightforward as a plan. There is an extra step involved. It is meant to be mysterious, which an architectural plan cannot be. Imagine a contractor trying to build a building from an architectural plan about which the architect said “It is a Forrest Fenn poem”, meaning that the contractor had to solve clues to figure out how to build it. Or 50,000 contractors had to figure out how to build from a plan with 9 hidden clues… Crazy. So it’s interesting to see both where the analogy to an architectural plan works and where it breaks down.

        And the strangest part of all, and the very challenge itself, is that we don’t just read the plan, we need the plan itself, the Poem, to also figure out how to read itself! It is simultaneously the plan that can be used to re-create real place, and also the instructions on how to understand the plan. There’s the rub. And in lieu of suggesting that a comprehensive knowledge of architecture might help, he appropriately said that “a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help.” That may key you in to the idea of a legend, or a key. “There is more of a key.”

        But the analogy of the architectural plan tells me, and the way I read the poem reinforces it for me, that the Poem he gives us is the plan of place; a rather dense one. Clue solutions translate into understanding of place. Using it you can construct unbroken, contiguous place. It is kind of an overly on nature, and once you begin to understand it you can coordinate it with real maps and also out in nature (although the two may not align exactly, as many have learned). And just like an architectural plan where you can identify focal points, like the main entry or the hearth, for example, the Poem creates a place that also includes the precise location of the treasure chest within it.

        So I believe that the Poem is an “architectural plan” of real place, not a map as to how to get somewhere. There’s a difference in understanding. It is less like pins on a map connected by string, and more like a broad paintbrush stroke, a “big picture”, of place, that also includes key critical and unique details. He is trying to paint like his friend Eric Sloane.

        And as I see it, you don’t need to actually DO everything in the poem, you need to understand it. You need to understand the cold, as a clue, whether or not you actually experience real cold…

        The plan, the Poem, is the somewhere, the secretwhere.

        And I believe that the beginning is the end, even though you’ll not be in the same geographical place when you are done. And yes, he’s telling you about what the water(s) does.



    • Well, you may be right – certainly all my earlier solutions were based on the ABCD approach within one geographical area. It got me (and a lot of others) nowhere. Now, I’m seeing broader and much more interesting patterns. The chase has suddenly got a lot more intriguing for me. I could be completely wrong, but I do now think that you do have to paint a much bigger picture to see the connections.

    • Seabee- At the end of the day it is straightforward as ff says. But there is a lot of work that needs to be done in order to realize it is that simple. For instance the Movie “National Treasure” The beginning of the movie it was said that “the secret lies within the Charlotte”. After finding the Charlotte he had to do a lot of work, but at the end of the day, after he did all of that work, what he had found in the charlotte, is what actually gave him the key to the treasure. What seemed so simple at the end, was actually a lot of work. (Running from gunman and FBI agents probably made it a little harder). In my case instead of looking for Carl, I mean Charlotte, I am using metaphors to find where warm waters halt… Then on to the next clue etc.. Basically my Warm waters halting is Nicolas Cages Charlotte . As I agree with you at the end, the poem matches up, but its starting at the top of the funnel that will get you there. I think if there were no metaphors/crosswords anagrams to be used, then it would have already been found IMO.

      • At the end of the day we all have our opinions and I respect yours. I believe the reason the treasure hasn’t been found yet is because we continue to over-complicate it. If EVERYONE thinks that metaphors, crosswords, anagrams, or latitude and longitude are in the poem and in reality they aren’t, then we have been trying in vain to use complicated solving methods that aren’t necessary and in the end will never lead us to the chest. I think that the other reason it has not been solved is that we as searchers use too much of our own opinions in our solve rather than sticking to the facts. A great deal of searchers seem to search Yellowstone simply because Forrest spent his childhood summers there it is featured so prominently in his books, but he has spent the last 43 years living in New Mexico, more than half his life. I think that is plenty of time to find his “secret place”. I’m not saying it is not in Yellowstone, or that it is in New Mexico, I just think that we have to be objective as searchers, and that if we keep things simple and stick to the facts, we will find it.

          • Hey Cholly, I’m replying to your comment up about the Brown Club. When I first started searching I believed finding out who Brown is was the key to solving the poem. We know that isn’t the case any more but I did find that web page a couple years ago. As I said up above though, I don’t believe Brown can be anything of this nature, otherwise WWWH and “canyon down” are useless.

          • I Remember getting lost in that rabbit hole a couple of years back. Interesting stuff about some interesting folks, but not what I should have been reading for a good solve… the poem the poem

  72. I am pretty new to the chase (couple of months). Loads of catching up to do.

    Below are some of the things i have noticed which i would like to share and maybe get some feedback on.

    1) I remember reading somewhere that one clue given by FF was “don’t go to places where a 79/80 year old cannot go” or something like that.

    I am wondering why this is a clue ? It sounds more like a cautionary remark. Anyone out there thinks it is important?

    2) I was re-reading the book and noticed the below points which makes me believe that they are pointing to New Mexico.

    * page 129, 2nd paragraph: “….,why not let others COME searching for….”
    sounds to me that he is inviting to where he is.

    * page 63: “Coffee made by boiling pine needles…” —- New Mexico Pinon coffee company.

    * The cartoon on his web page: “He’s hidden the gold somewhere in New Mexico!”

    3) “So why is it that I must go And leave my trove for all to seek?”

    This sounds like a forced relocation or displacement. This makes me think “the Navaho long walk” where they were forced to move and relocate which
    they had to leave their culture/belongings behind. Now all the excavation sites are unearthing these treasures.
    Is the “location” an old Navaho (or another tribe, — since Navaho long walk was south of Santa Fe) site?


    • @UA hey, I’m new too and have been following as much of the blog post and other info as I can. IMO to answer your first question: it’s been discussed on here a lot,the difference between a ‘clue’ and a ‘hint’ and/or IMO just straight up advice or suggestions from ff. The poem has 9 clues, the book TTOTC has subtle hints. ff saying don’t go searching where a 78 – 80 y.o. wouldn’t go is stating the obvious i.e. climbing gear, rappelling down cliffs, diving gear, tree climbing, not the place to go. Can’t answer your other questions but like your thinking and have feelings for NM to be his special/private place.

  73. @seabee88, you said:
    “I also don’t believe it can refer to temperature, because what is warm for one person will not be warm for another.”

    You’ve hit the nail on the head there. It has to be something we would all agree on (and that ain’t ice, IMO), and it has to be identifiable as one specific thing or place. That is how I’ve approached the problem recently, and it has yielded very ripe fruit!

    • That’s great. It’s always exciting to discover some new information that leads to new ways of seeing the poem and hopefully the correct solve.

  74. Hi guys any knows any creek in Rockies where u can paddle ? I know it’s says no paddle up your creek ,but what u guys think ? Is he actually talking about a reall creek?

    • Admir, there are thousands of creeks in the Rockies. Some are navigable by kayak, but I suspect the majority are not. I don’t think it’s helpful to start midway through the poem/clues. You need to establish where warm waters halt and go from there.

      Good luck!

      • Thank u voxpops .my question was midway but I’m not starting from there but that is bothering me lol

    • He’s referring to reversing directions and now moving upstream in the canyon. The following phrase brings you to an impasse. Hope that helps. jmo

        • My thought on “no paddle up ur creek ” is that he is telling u that its not a creek I mean how many creeks are there that u can paddle on them but that is just my thought I might be wrong

          • All,

            Another definition of paddle is from the online free dictionary:

            vb (mainly intr)

            1. to walk or play barefoot in shallow water, mud, etc

            2. to dabble the fingers, hands, or feet in water

            3. to walk unsteadily, like a baby

            4. (tr) to fondle with the fingers

            5. the act of paddling in water

            pay close attention to #1.

            Therefore if ff means “no paddle up your creek” it may not mean it is a dry creek that we must go “up” but it could mean the creek is too deep to and we cannot “paddle” up it.


  75. Seeker, and others,
    IMO, “know the place for the first time” refers to the “contentment” that comes after the search, and is not actually part of the search itself. Again IMO, we all can find contentment when we “arrive where we started and know the place for the first time”; that is, home again.
    “Have flashlight, will travel”
    (Soon, and this time with kids)

  76. Anyone see a similarity between the cover of ttotc and the floating hat picture? (Scrapbook 126)

  77. Hey folks I haven’t had the chance to catch up… ICU!
    But I’d like to throw out another Brown. Johnny Mack Brown, the movie star! I haven’t made all the ties but Hopalong and Billy the Kid? Anything??? IDK
    Mark H. Check back later!

  78. I agree with 42’s intelligent solution. Key word is “Key” as in the key of middle E and F major frequencies tied to longitude and latitude. She was brilliant and incredibly generous to share publicly her methods. As she suggested I’ve located mirror image locations in Montana and New Mexico working with music frequencies.

    Additionally, by following the poem graphing format (remove spaces and punctuation, justify Left) The POEM’s content is very revealing. One other key word becomes End/bottom/butt and offers a horrific ending to someone’s life.

    Has anyone ever asked Forrest:
    I believe he speaks true in that the treasure chest is “out there” to look for. but Forrest’s repeated responses including sepulcred, entombed and his oft spoken, “You may as well ask me…How deep is a hole” lead me to believe his trove of gold sits deep within a cavern – which qualifies for being exposed to water and elements. It may not be recoverable.

    2. DOES HE FEEL RESPONSIBLE FOR A LOVED ONE FALLING TO THEIR DEATH FROM A SLIPPERY LEDGE? If you deeply search his poem (in graph format) every line beginning at WWWHalt on down, aludes to an excruciatingly sad death of a person falling to an unrecoverable depth inside a cavern.

    This is not conjecture or imagination. Do your homework – it’s all in the poem.
    These two questions likely answer why Forrest placed his favored possessions in the ‘very dear place’ he did or leave one wondering about the sanity of building a poem around such information.

    Forrest – it would be terrific if you would kindly answer or clarify your poems information.

  79. Hey folks,
    I haven’t had a chance to catch up, but I’d like to throw another Brown out there…hehe.
    Johnny Mack Brown a famous western movie star. The only ties I have so far are Hopalong and Billy the Kid. Just ideas if anyone has anything?
    Mark H.

      • Hi Into,
        He was awesome! I have some old collectable postcards signed by some of the Best… Two of Johnny Mack, and two of Gene Autry and Champ! Twelve in all…

        Odd thing is I just thought about it.

        And too, I was laying in bed in a dizzy spin and I thought of Hemingway…or “The haves and the havenots.” Wierd huh?

        Starting Radiation and Chemo tomorrow at the Cancer Institute of Southern Illinois… 4 miles from home…I’m blessed!
        Mark H. thinking of you all… sending hugs and smiles!

        • fenntreasuremarksblogsite,

          Make sure they get your nausea under control. It CAN be almost eliminated. My wife had chemo today, tired but living. Best of luck to you. Your key word is that you are LIVING. home of Brown is a pueblo. Keep on keeping on……

          • You bet Pirate.. I was going to say thank you on your last post… but got sic after the biopsies… So thank you! And Best wishes/prayers and love for the Wifee. This is tough stuff!

            As for the Pueblo thing… it’s my fav!

            Living is KEY

  80. it just hit me. if the treasure is at the end of the rainbow, wwh must be at the beginning of the rainbow.

  81. OFF TOPIC:
    Anyone looking in CO and interested in working with a photojournalist from a Denver TV station on a story about the chase…please drop me an email..

  82. @charlie, @deb, @uken2it… found some stuff you all were previously “untangling” (to use a synonym). Dead f*ing on. Well done; return to it! #GoodLuck

      • @uken2it, seriously, dude… You and your blog-buddies were on the right path. Keep untangling, for real. #GoodLuck

        • Ec,
          I have no blog buddies:-(. I am simple minded and you have lost me once again. Try to speak to me slower with more explanatory words. What path? Boots on ground?

          • @uken2it, said plainly, revisit your blog posts. In my opinion, you once proposed something during a conversation that is meaningful to truly understanding the poem, but you dismissed it and moved on. #GoodLuck

  83. As 42, Im officially out and like numerous others on Dal’s blog believe I have a million dollar solution.

    NOTE: if you are an editor or movie producer looking for a million dollar solution with 2 years of intelligent research including maps within the poem and coordinates, email me: 4242 l e v e l @ g m a i

    You’ll not be disappointed. (I’m not interested in any chase related documentaries)

    Here are my comments in response to the latest question on Mystetious Writings:

    Ask yourself the right questions, not the obvious ones. Look closely at obscure meanings.

    1.Why was a “Stool” an apt ‘prop’? Keep in mind f’s numerous references to brown as forms of stool related to human bottoms.

    Why did FF use those words? Is he simply referring to “tools” used to display “loot” [backwards] or is there a muck deeper association with stool? His word choices and letter choices reveal everything in his poem.

    2. Why a chest sitting on a stool? – perhaps a landform? m=chest or twin buttes sitting atop a river bottom. Why wooden planks and nails which resemble a coffin or pirates plank? Maybe the chest simply sits below a wooden plank or pile of wood – but I personally doubt Forrest spent 10-15 years constructing his poem if it’s that simple.

    3. Why did FF select the name Agnes?
    common meaning of Agnes is lamb, innocent.
    How about ‘no place for the meek’ or page 109 TTOTC Chapter title “Teachers with ropes” Deconstruct the words as Forrest constructed them.
    Tea = at E; Cher=dearly beloved boy = UUits8Eternity
    Perhaps Forrest’s secret he dares all to discover is a dearly beloved boy resting in peace at the treasured “chest” or twin buttes location at E (middle E frequency).

    Reply ↓

  84. hi folks we just got back earlier today from our scouting trip to our area. lots of good stuff and a few problems. some of good stuff hubby is even more a believer now. we saw our jumping off spot and found a great place to stay. we found a couple of problems not with the solve but how to follow it but we have figured out how to get past them. glad we went in ahead to scout out problems. it will be worth the effort! still have to wait till mid Aug to travel again for a bunch of reasons we can not share right now. we are not sure of the date we are leaving on but WE ARE VERY SURE OF OUR SOLVE.

  85. Forrest,

    I would like to be the FIRST one to say Thank You that u did not hide your chest of gold on Snake Island in Brazil.
    Because if so, I would never ever ever ever search for it. EVER. 🙂 🙂 🙂

        • @onuat and Amy, me three! Saw that show for first time last night while eating out…..there’s a snake, there’s another one, there’s one…..huge and extremely deadly…, does make me think I need a team effort….it’s just me and my kid who doesn’t enjoy reading at all…..I’m burnt out on the double omegas and what did ff mean when he said such and such….man he can’t hardly sneeze without it becoming a ‘hint’ or change order…!

  86. Hey all,

    Does anyone have the link to the quote where Mr. Fenn talks about what the finder will experience when he finds the treasure? He mentioned what the finder will see, smell, feel, etc. Ive done searches but no luck.

    Chris M.

  87. Can someone shoot some holes in my WWWH. I have been going back to this clue over the past 4 years and have been thinking this has to be something really specific or the whole poem is just crap. I have thought through the a lot of things but Forest has said time and time again that you just need the poem. When I think about that and forgot all of the other things, it tells me that where warm waters halt has to be so specific that it is the only option on a map. So that is my thought.

    Now where I think WWWH. When I first heard that and every time since I have thought Yellowstone because the vast quantities of hot water that are in the area, but it’s not specific enough. So I thought, does all that water flow to one river? And why does it say Warm waters…

    It seems it flowed into three rivers Yellowstone, Gallatin, and the Madison. That might be an over simplified way of looking at it though. So I found that there is one place where the three watersheds come to together, it is at three rivers peak. That is where I believe warm waters halt.


    • Nate, I agree with your premise (premiss?), but not with your conclusion. WWWH has to be as unambiguous as possible. IMO, Three Rivers Peak does not pass that test.

      • Voxpops, thanks for the reply.

        I can see some ambiguity in it, I keep thinking the only other things that would be where warm waters halt would be for example the highest warm waters in the rockies, so conundrum hot springs is another example.

        Why waters and not water. That means mutliple sources are halting somewhere.

        That’s why I think three rivers peak.

        Anyone else have ideas that would not be Ambiguous at all?

    • Nate –

      I think your idea is better than some others I’ve heard. What you might do is now go look for your HOB. If within a short time of research – your not finding one that really moves you – move on. Once you start to research a spot intensely – it is hard to let go of it – so it’s major – that you are right in the first place.

      I also think you can find HOB first and then go backwards.

      Imo – having both wwwh and hoB is imperative.

      • That’s been my issue is I don’t get connected to a spot. I find reasons why it isn’t and move on. I have gone through about 40 different warm waters and as I go they get less and less ambiguous.

      • “There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them. You over simplify the clues. There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts. f”

        “The most common mistake that I see searchers make is that they underestimate the importance of the first clue. If you don’t have that one nailed down you might as well stay home and play Canasta.” f

        “What surprises me is that so many IGNORE the first clue in the poem. Without it all the searcher has is the memory of a nice vacation. Although many have tried, one important possibility related to the winning solve.”

        I agree hoB is important… but with out Knowing the first clue, we don’t have a leg to stand on. I’m not saying that Fenn is. 

        • I agree. The correct HOB can only be discovered (other than by sheer good fortune) following the uncovering of WWWH. However, I do believe there is a very good reason why no one has gone past the first two clues (to FF’s “uncertain knowledge”). I think we often forget the comment about FF being the “architect” of the poem. IMO, you need to visualize the poem in its entirety and with an architect’s/builder’s eye.

        • So it seems to me that narrowing down the exact start where warm water halts is key to being able to move on. So you have to have an exact starting spot or else you never will find anything.

          I suppose you could say that you are warm if you are somewhere where there is no water. Where waters end.

          I don’t know. More comments and discussion would really help this dude.

          • Think of it this way – where warm waters halt means only a change of temperature and you are still going to have water.

            Yes, if you don’t start in the right spot – you have NO chance of ever finding the treasure. You are never. in any way. just by happen stance tripping over it.

          • I’m going to have to disagree with inthechaseto. But we both have done that is the past and shook hands and moved on.

            I don’t believe “where warm waters halt means ‘only’ a change of temperature”

            It may in-part help understand but not only. That for me is the rabbit hole. And Nate ask yourself, could it possibly be that WWWH is not the first clue? but related to the actual first clue. Could both clues be the same as in area but not in what the are?

            Example;[ and in now way a suggestion to a clue…] a Mountain peak call John doe is covered in a snow cap. Can WWWH mean snow cap… sure it could… but would it be the first clue? No, that would be the correct Mountain peak yet still the snow cap is related to it and still not the first clue… so why can’t you find the correct starting point? Maybe because your looking at the wrong clue as the first clue.

            That statement won’t go over well with others…But as fenn said “What surprises me is that so many IGNORE the first clue in the poem. Without it all the searcher has is the memory…”

          • @nate: thoughts I’d have if at a WWWH, is there a canyon down and is it to far to walk to hoB from there? or, is everything close by from where you park and can you see mountains, trees, animals, smell sage and Pine trees? What type of property is it? BLM, NPS, FL, private? What’s the distance from where your finale parking place to ‘no paddle up”? What’s the elevation? Is there a marvel view that you can gaze at? Does it feel special and private? What do you hear? How does your ‘meek’ and being ‘brave’ apply? What else? Maybe not much help but stuff I’d be asking myself to justify a beginning……next!

    • “Can someone shoot some holes in my WWWH”

      I can do that for ya Nate…lol, as long as you can take it with a grain of salt.
      You almost answer your own questions. “Now where I think WWWH. When I first heard that and every time since I have thought Yellowstone because the vast quantities of hot water that are in the area, but it’s not specific enough.”

      I think your trying too hard to narrow down the starting point. I have, we all have and some still are. What that does is, unconsciously force fits a conclusion.

      You also said; ” And why does it say Warm waters…”

      That for me is the catch 22, if you will. This is my opinion only, use it, do what you will with it, it is just a suggestion. When looking at the word warm… separate it from waters… but not completely. all the words in the poem, just like any other word, have Multiple meanings and usage.

      Warm for me is an indicator. Waters is what we should be looking for. Fenn stated show the poem to a child. There are many meaning to child and it all depends on ones perspective. Child; Under a certain age… A mountain in a range with it’s parents and siblings mountains… a racoon or coon which is a term for a mountain man, or even, the way a young person sees the world or attitude if you will.
      I personally think what FF meant by that is, a child’s outlook and how they would look at the poem through a simple minds. WE call this chase a treasure hunt and a child may look at it as, Hide n go seek. Same difference, right?

      What is warm in Hide n go seek? Then ask, why later in the poem your efforts will be worth the cold. Not one single person as gone and found the chest and not one has done that on the first try. So Is cold only about temperature? cold to the touch? a cold running mountain stream? or one definition of cold is; As a seeker. I see the poem as all hints, with indicators to help understand how the poem should be read.

      Wolf has stated, [ paraphrasing ] the poem was meant /designed to make one fail at first… that comment gave me thoughts to ponder on, and other searchers have done the same… whether they realized it or not. I just hope my comments to you, will do the same. Don’t take what I say to be factual or for that matter any other searchers comment… use them to help “Think” about something that may have slipped your thoughts or turn those thoughts into something useful.

      IMO, Just food for thought.

      • Reminds me of the game.. you are getting warmer… and warmer… and warmer… so if the efforts are worth the cold the efforts are worth all of the failing.

        • In premise, yes. You will fail your searches till you understand the poem the way the Author meant it to be read. So once you see that, all those efforts will be worth the dead end searchers. It will also be worth the cold hard cash, be worth the cold of the touch of the bronze chest etc. IMO don’t single out one meaning… that is what lead down the rabbit hole.
          Everyone calls fenn a wordsmith or a master in writing. No argument there… yet I see most don’t follow their own complements and comments and over simplify the poem.

          But Like i said before, all the words throughout the poem have Multiple Meanings, usage, and understandings. Some words are opposite… such as warm and cold but mean the same. I have always believed that all those meanings are to be understood to understand the poem.

          And for that reason alone is why fenn choose a poem and not just placed clues in the book. A poem is an avenue that give so much leeway to usage that it make a word seem one way, but means something else altogether. The same with halt. Stop, freeze, change direction. Readers tend to use just a single meaning… all those meanings are needed to be known. IMO that is a fault of reading the poem and will not give you the big picture.

          And to be politically correct All my comments are of my opinion.

          • Seeker –

            I haven’t found any words in the poem to be opposites. At least none that I can think of right now. The poem is really pretty straight forward in both direction and words.

            I think he used something along the way that could be taken as an opposite and that would be a direction to look at on paper.

          • inthechase,

            Warm and cold opposites as by definitions stated in my other comments.

            How about Cold as dead or halt as dead gone a dead, end as dead. yet all mean the opposite cold as in seek. halt has in change direction, end as in boundary, [ and not so much as “dead end”] even dead does not only mean demise or death. It can also mean stop or forced to move opposite or change in direction.

            But can those word used in the poem related to dead as in demised or finished or the end of something. Is the “end is ever drawing nigh ” a simple one meaning that a searcher is close?

            All those words are indicators in one form or another.

            We tend to over simplify the meanings in the hopes to force the poem to be the same and IMO that is the downfall of reading the poem incorrectly.

            This poem is not as simple in the definition of straightforwards that we all hoped it would be when we started this challenge… or seemed to be anyways.

            Straightforwards means honest without deception. but yet again most of us want to see the simpler meaning of the word.

            Fenn gave us a subtle hint and example when he asked, Have you ever looked up the word several?

          • to clarify halt, cold end as: dead…
            halt dead stop, cold; dead cold, end: dead end. all the same yet opposite in other meanings of other words that seem the same.

            warm and cold are the best examples for opposite warm in tempt. cold in tempt. same meaning in temperature yet opposite. warm as in seeking or close cold as in seeking or not close. The same yet opposite. Maybe a better way of saying it would be mirror image… for all those who enjoy the book, SB’s and Q&A’s a clues… i call them informative information. Seems there is a troy about mirrors in the book. another in the SB’s and a Q&A as well.

            Yeah, there are opposite meanings of words that mean the same in the poem. more than I can count.

            Hope that clarifies my comment.

  88. Water going into a Canyon down turns shallow, picks up speed, often changing to Rapids because rocks halt it’s normal placid warm pace and can turn into a waterfall. So I see a waterfall, then “about ten miles” of canyon, then a Pueblo (Brown) and another waterfall with a rainbow at the end. As the sun lowers, you will see a blaze of color pointing to treasure surrounded by trees. The cold is the chest and in the wood is inside chest, and also the cold mist and woods, so means several definitions. Maybe that’s what f means saying to use a different angle. Actually use each words different meaning together to solve it…imo. ¥♡Peace ♡¥

    • Donna,
      I’m picking up what you’re putting down. But just for shoots and ladders, Lets say. your warm placid waters travel down the canyon not far from it’s starting point yet far enough to make it a long trip…

      Could it be that hoB is not at that area of travel but back at the starting point? A continuous description of what you see and not a step by step maybe?

      If your warm waters start at lets say, Brown Creek Pass and the water heads south, down the canyon to the lower level of that area, to the land of no meek… are you not already below the hoB? where your starting point was.

      Over the years of reading the poem we seem to have fallin into a line by line read and dismiss sentences or even the stanzas.

      Stanza 2 is two sentences which seems to tell you start here, go down there and below that. Maybe hoB is all one in, the same and you are starting there with everything else below IT.

      Straightforwards and consecutive order

  89. For what it’s worth. An example of a line by line solve but not line by line search

    1- at my wwwh I can see my (2)canyon below my solve for (5) ‘no place 4 meek’
    3- and it is too far to walk
    4- How do I get to ‘meek location’? Go to HOB (2nd begin spot)
    2- then take it in the the Canyon down
    5-hike/raft etc. to my solve for ‘no place 4 meek’

    • uken2it,

      LOL that was to much to see this early in the morning. But after a couple reads, I think I got it.

      The 1 2 5 3 work together to get to understand 4 to take 2 into 5 and get to below 4 and onto 5.

      Did i get that right? what do I win?

      • Seeker, Correct. It should have read “(2) my canyon below AND my…”

        At 1, I see 2,5 & 3
        Being it is too far to walk I solve 4
        Go to 4 then 2,5

        In physical movement it is 1, 4, 2, 5

        Sorry folks, what makes sense to me doesn’t translate to what I write very well, also when I talk. Just me but I go with it even after re-reading it.

  90. Questions to those who has determined and are confident with their starting point.

    How long did it take you to find it?
    Did the book help you find it?
    Is the meaning of the place important?

    Since FF said generic knowledge of the geography would be helpful, i am not focusing on the place names that may relate to “warm”,”water”, “stop”, etc. at this moment.

    any comments?


      • thanks E.C.

        The reason i asked was that i was getting a little discouraged. Wanted to see how long it took for people to establish their start since I am a little late to the party.

        • @ua, I wouldn’t use my experience as an indicator. I’m not very smart. I somehow backed into the solution without realizing it until last week when I finally “fronted” into the right solution. I couldn’t sleep for days. I can assure you and everyone else, once you understand it, EVERYTHING falls into place.

          #GoodLuck #WillItBeYouOrMe #September9

          • EC, looks like we’ll be searching around the same time. I’ll be mainly in WY, will you be there, too? I’m thinking it’s possible we may have similar solutions.

          • @voxpops, look for my tweets on Sept 9 – 12. @mikebibler

            I’m on twitter silence until then. Perhaps you’ll understand why I won’t share my location while hinting that I have untangled it.

            #GoodLuck #WillItBeYouOrMe

          • hey E. C. Water what state are you searching may i ask? and even better what part of what state?

          • @wildbirder, bait.

            I’ll tell you where I have searched, but not where I’m heading next.

            I’ve looked in Colorado (specifically Ouray), Montana around Hebgen and W Yelkowstone area, and Wyoming, specifically Cokeville and Yellowstone vicinities. I’m making another trip into the search zone before it snows. This will be my last effort whether or not I take it. Either way I will go in peace but not before providing my solution.


          • thanks for your answer and we get you keeping thing to one self. bog aug good luck

        • hi ua we started in 2013 hubby and i searched in an area but didnt know much about the poem or Mr. Fenn. it was more a vacation. this time after months of hard work we have a pretty solid solve. IOHO. we just came back from a scouting trip to secure a good place to stay and checked our area to be sure we want grandson on trip. we will not know till real BOG. but we have at least 2 yrs of hard work and it could all blow up in our faces. if God is willing we will find it if not we are not meant to find TC.

    • 3 years (to find a specific, coherent spot, rather than a stab in the dark start point)

    • Do you want realistic answers or just wondering?

      90% of the folks will answer, they are confident of their starting point and 99% of those confident folks will all have different starting points … so how confident someone is, is only one’s perspective. This hunt is no longer a sprint to the finish as much as, thought consuming with dedication. and with that dedication comes a responsibility to not let is consume you.

      I’m personally into it for 3 years, and it still would not bother me if it was found tomorrow.

      Is the meaning of the place important? I’m not sure if you’re asking the right question, but yes “the first clue” is very important as all the searcher have been told by the Author of the poem and book. The real question may have been worded… how confident are you about having the correct first clue?

      Fenn’s actual statement was, a Comprehensive knowledge of geography… there is a difference to “generic knowledge”

      Any Comments? Yes at this point, only one. Have a realistic point a view when attempting to solve the poem, and then give your best shot.

      • thanks Seeker.

        I agree that everyone has a different starting point and that is great. otherwise it would be a race vs a chase and no one would be sharing anything.

        Maybe i am making the mistake of analyzing the poem too literally. I am not sure at this point whether the poem is bunch of random words linked to make it appear that it tells a story or it really has a meaning.

        Just thinking out loud.

        • UV,

          That is a good point of discussion. And how the poem was meant to be read. I think most see the straightforwards comment to be a simpler means of reading the poem. Where I think the poem is very difficult until you found out how to read it properly.

          Yes, this is a difference of opinion only. But we have been warned by Fenn the poem is difficult but not impossible. And, how surprised he is that so many ignore the first clue. In my little storage spot I call a brain, that is hinting to me, if most searcher talk about WWWH as the first clue … either I’m wrong or most are.

          Then again, there are a lot of people in this world that don’t know the same difference between, a left handed screwdriver and a right handed screwdriver. So I guess the more that think it is… it must be correct.

          But that has been my problem since I was knee high to a grasshopper. I’m not much into following.

        • Oh it has a meaning for this I am certain.I may not have a clue but the poem has 9.

    • Well UA, I think folks have gone way overboard with the confidence thing; which has led to a false sense of confidence. The false sense of confidence may be why folks are getting the first two clues correct and going right past the others. Because of their confidence they are not seeing what is right in front of them.

      Being confident enough to use ones time and resources searching is fairly confident in my opinion; but being over confident only leads to mistakes.

      Like the old saying says; “The greatest obstacle to discovering the truth is being convinced you already know it.”

      I agree with Seeker; Fenn said a comprehensive, not generic, knowledge of geography would be helpful.

    • Hi UA, I worked for 6 months, looking at all the usual places that everyone looks, before arriving at the starting place. A comprehensive knowledge of geography would be useful in discovering the solutions that I have discovered. I made some connections after reading… alot. The book(TTOTC) was helpful in deciding what was relevant in my solution and, yes, the place is significant(I’m not sure what you mean by important).

  91. Mysterious writings has a new photo and question answered by Forrest. Mike’s bloggers have determined it may indicate Forrest could eliminate another state. Let’s do some deeper thinking and share intelligent content. I may be wrong, but this is a THINKING game.

    IMO: What I notice:
    1. The castle turret design on the top of the chest also looks like a large Elizabethan style “E”
    2. compare the photo on cover of TTOTC. The one coin singled out with lighting is British with an image of QEII.
    3. A very important question which is tied to the blaze – why a Queen Elizabeth Coin…stealing the spotlight among American eagles and double eagles associated with a decorated US golden pilot?
    4. E & L are letters in the word BLAZE. Maybe they are the blaze you find after following the Y’s, because Why is it.
    5. Note that “EL” is predominately the name for the triune Godhead and used as such in multiple cultures and languages. Perhaps when Forrest put his chest bELow HOB he bellowed at EL (aka God) and payed a debt with “Indulgence.”

    • lately I feel like I’m missing a lot… did you say that was a “new” pic of the chest in the Q&A of august 1st 2015? or were you just referring to a new question.

    • well … to be honest there is nothing to believe or not to believe. He just said it might be near the top of a mountain. That means that it might not. My best advice is try to focus on all of the things that he speaks as a “definite” and not a “maybe” 🙂

  92. Here it is… another summer of searches gone by the wayside. The spring excitement has waned into the dog days of summer. It is hard to believe that this Quest is five years or so running! Let’s keep at it and find that dang box before the years end. Good luck to all and stay safe out there.

    • @ken, don’t count the search season over just yet.


    • Ken,
      You show your frustration by referring to the TC as the dang box. This encourages me none. The box will be found in due time. Maybe you should take a break from the search. This search was not meant to cause you frustration, but to bring adventure and discovery to many. Indulgence is not a dang chest to myself and I am sure there are others who share my sentiment… IMO.

  93. hi everyone. we had a safe and fun trip scouting our lotion and where we are going to stay. we found a couple of problems not with our solve but with how to launch our search. glad we went BOG to see these issues so we will be prepared when we go later in a few weeks. still have bugs to work out on meals and what to take. traveling is fun but a headache too.

    well as for needing a babysitter on trip we think we will be OK as long as hubby doesn’t take any more road side pics. please see link below scroll down to hubby’s pic. YIKES!!!!!!!!!

    • hi mark
      if you can be patience we just might find that little old box in a few days. we leave aug 15 now and will get to look for 6 days i think. still waiting to hear if grandson can go. its close to when school starts here. hope you are doing well. prayers your way

    • Peace be with you Dal. Can we start a post mapping out translations of Spanish, local Apache & Navajo dialects? Perhaps a translation into a culturally/ contextually significant peripheral view may help us to hone in on a word that is key, a phrase lost in the current times/ assumed literal English description, or lead us to a significant ceremonial meeting location that FF may have experienced a healing transformation/ new found affinity for native American cultural beauty.

    • When he was on CBS and released his latest clue, that it isn’t in a mine, I didn’t really find it noteworthy because I never really considered a mine.

      But the way he talks about it not being in a mine in this video it takes on a whole different meaning. He says no tunnel, snakes might drop on you, and so on. These are things you might say about a cave as well. But he doesn’t say cave, hasn’t ruled out caves, and it almost seems like he’s avoiding saying “cave”. Anyone else get that?

      Feels like he might be avoiding saying it’s not in a cave because the actual place could be a shallow hole or grotto or something someone might consider to be a cave.

      • Jeremy,

        I concur that it could still be in a cave. There are specific references to caves in both memoirs, and also “vena cava” or hollow vein.

        When ff mentions “they” can fall in in you, I thought he meant stay out of man made mines and tunnels because the mines can fall in on you (not snakes)

        Those who think we can walk right up to the chest or it’s easy because ff was 79 or 80 may wish to contemplate Forrest’s statement made in 2014 (approx June or July) on Mysterious Writings…

        Forrest made a strong and IMO telling statement that to return to hiding place of the treasure chest “would be the BOLDEST thing he’s done.”

        For a fearless fighter pilot to make that statement should raise eyebrows. Why would it be the boldest thing he’s done?

        [If anyone has the reference point from MW to post here that would be appreciated.]

        Note possible important definitions for BOLD are cliff and dwelling

        Fearless and daring; courageous.
        adj. Requiring or exhibiting courage and bravery.

        adj. Unduly forward and brazen;

        impudent: a bold, sassy child.

        Clear and distinct to the eye;

        conspicuous: a bold handwriting.

        *Steep or abrupt in grade or terrain: bold *cliffs.

        *A dwelling; habitation; building.


        I predict it is in a cave on a cliff face or opening on a very steep hillside you approach from below.

        Furthermore, there is
        no P, but ADD ‘LE’ to the side of that hill or cliff.
        “No paddle”

    • to everyone. we are half dead from cooking, shopping and packing for our adventure finally. it 9:30 here and i am waiting for a few items in dryer we need so i can go to bed. everything is ready to go. a good night sleep and we will be off like a herd of turtles. will post if we can. poor phone service where we are going in NM. we will be home on or before aug 21 in time for school for grandson.

      • @wildbirder: best of luck to you and your team, be safe and have a great time….Go NM searchers! Wondering how hunting season impacts searchers in the various states, bow season usually opens first and those folks are very stealthy, they will see you so tarry scant……

        • yes hunters can impact searchers and birders lol thank you if we dont update its because we dont have good phone reception

      • @wildbirder Safe travels to NM for you and your family. Hope to see your story posted up soon!

      • Safe travels Wildbirder and have FUN! Looking forward to hearing about your adventures. 🙂

      • Good luck wildbirder. Be safe and have fun. I believe your on the right track, go NM team hunting. Sending you plenty of good thoughts and energy. sally2

    • Oh crap… sure, blame me if you’re wrong… I see the set up. lol
      Ok give me a few minute to read whatcha got.

      • Well all I can say is… you’re correct to see that my prediction may be correct. lol

        Nice grouping of after the fact information. You surly can find subtle hints that others may not recognize as hints at all.

        Just out of curiosity, how much has your book sales raised for Cancer research? so far.

        • I ave raised around $1000 in donations but book sales are only around a couple hundred dollars. I should have got you to market it! ha!

        • Have you tried Kickstarter? It seems to have better luck than GoFundMe. Our family is waiting news right now on my 24 year old nephew’s Lymphoma biopsy which was done Wednesday. My search has been postponed a bit after paying his rent and utilities for the month but if his results come back negative will happily contribute to you. Best of luck!

      • Sounds like your are knocking on my door. What state is your “triple divide” in? Did you find the blaze there as I did? And just down the way, is there a lake take that is “in the wood”?

        Scott W

        • We are nigh to each other by the sounds of it… enough said for now. lol, i do like to help with food for thoughts if i can… but I don’t give the last piece of pie to anyone. I’m selfish that way.

          • That is the place where the triple divide is. I’m not putting the horse before the cart. One thought that is interesting about that spot is the northern route. Wolf mentioned it just yesterday, how interesting would it be, the chest lays in wait smack dead on the border of Canada and the US.

            Does 60,000 link ring a bell? Not the 8.25 calculation… but the story itself.

            Food for thought

          • If you meant 66,000 links, can mean an acre. GNP is one of my earlier solves that never became certain. I return to it off and on. In right now. The border is interesting for ground zero, whose rules dictate how the find should be handled.

  94. Question .. Can anyone tell me how It is at least 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe or when this was said? I know I read it once but I can’t find Mr. Fenn’s words on this.

    • Forrest was giving an example of the method of using chains and links to measure distance. The was over on Mountain Walk, Richard Saunier’s blog…he mentioned that the chest was at least 66,000 links north of Santa Fe. 66,000 links is equal to about 8.25 miles. Goofy demonstrated the math here:
      The original post is probably still on Saunier’s site but I don’t have a link to it.

      After he made the “66,000 link” remark Forrest started using the 8.25 mile reference himself and said that in a couple of interviews to the press.

    • Here you go Lisa:

      Fenn’s complete comment:

      Forrest Fenn: Land Surveyor

      Since Richard mentioned the olden days lets harken to 1620 when universal land measures first became law in England and America. As you rode your horse into town you had to pass 80 telephone poles in order to reach a mile because they were 1 chain apart, or 66 feet. And each chain had 100 links, if
      you wanted to break it down further. Road rights-of-way also were 1 chain wide. And 80 square chains made a square mile, or 640 acres – and that was 1 section of land.

      But if you’d rather count fence posts you had to pass 320 in order to reach a mile because they were a rod apart, or 16.5 feet. And since everyone knew that an acre was 10 square chains (43,560 square feet) it was easy to tell how many acres were in your neighbor’s farm.

      Some aspects of those measures are still in use today in the horse racing business because a furlong is 10 chains in length, or 660 feet. You should feel smarter now because that’s so easy.

      If you want to apply those important figures into the thrill of the chase I will give you an additional clue. The Treasure chest full of gold and precious jewels is more than 66,000 links north of Santa Fe.

  95. Months back supposedly someone was close at least it seemed that way from an answer Fortest gave. What gives is this going to be found or was that just more hype ? I’ve been out of the loop…..

    Forrest Fenn, Who Will You Tell?

    Mr. Fenn, Should the chest, for example, be found today, would you be able to tell searchers that the chest has been found in the same day? ~Johnny Q


    Well Mr. Q, you present a question that’s hard to answer. There is so much talk on the blogs that whoever finds the treasure may be driven underground and not say anything to anyone.

    If I am convinced it has been found then I will announce it immediately to Dal and three major media outlets. It seems logical, that if someone solves the clues, they will retrieve the treasure immediately. Until they do, no announcement can have teeth. With snow coming on the situation, this changes of course; in which case, if I were the searcher, I’d stay very quiet until spring.f

    • “Driven underground” interesting choice of words there by mister Fenn. Maybe he/she will stake claim to “indulgence” soon, then again maybe we’ll all just be left hanging.

  96. I’m tapping out, so here’s my solution.

    Alone in there: Yellowstone
    Wwwh: EC Waters as supported by preface poem, Ernest Tubb, I’m Waiting on Ships That Never Come In
    Canyon down: go south in the lake (it’s a canyon filled w water)
    Tftw: need a boat
    Home of Brown: see Phil May cartoon referencing Dottyville
    No place for the meek: it was a zoo
    End is ever drawing nigh: it’s an arrowhead pointing to the left
    No paddle: please don’t paddle there, use a motor boat
    Water high: elevation of Y Lake
    Blaze: dunno, could be the island pointing at it
    Hear me now and listen good: cross the “sound”
    Worth the cold: the lake
    Brace and in the wood: Spruce Point or nearby – Dot Island is pointing at it
    Give you title: President Ulysses S Grant

    To me, the word that is key is Ulysses. All of the stories can match James Joyce’s writings in Ulysses. Here’s just a few things of which I will send to Dal to post called “Connecting the Dots”:

    – father committed suicide
    – 265 gold coins = 265000 words
    – Troy lbs
    – 42 lbs = #42 on the Companion to Modernist Lit
    – Ceylon – mentioned
    – 66000 links = first edition sold for £66000 in 2005
    – kidney
    – brown gravy
    – milk a cow
    – Gilbert Stuart / Stuart Gilbert
    – Bloomsday suggested in paperboy numbers
    – Sandy / Sandymount / Sand Point
    – Dottyville / Dot Island
    – giant dot at the end of Ithaca (QED)
    – nine clues / nine muses
    – teachers with ropes is at the end of O Brother Where Art Thou, another allusion to Odyssey
    – on and on and on into Scrapbook hints

    • Very good work there EC Waters. Sorry to see you go when you were so close. Sometimes our solutions need just a little twisting and bending to make them work. Perhaps you have nail “Joyce” but just applied it in the wrong place.

      I think I know who the “Joyce” that Fenn meant. So close yet so far away.

      Stay in touch it is going to better.

    • Hey E.C. – sorry to see you go also. I’m with you on the Nine Muses and think some of your other ideas are quite interesting also. Best of everything to you.

    • EC –

      Just wanted to say thank you for all your input here, and sending you good wishes for a very bright and happy future. Don’t forget us and stop in to say hi – OK?

    • hello EC. hunch here. cant say I’m sad to see you tap out. I was gettin worried you might be closer than me. fare thee well sailor.

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