Looking in New Mexico…Part Two



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684 thoughts on “Looking in New Mexico…Part Two

  1. I was just getting ready to start typing Dal a message suggesting a part two to Searching in New Mexico when this thread started up. He read my mind!

  2. I believe I don’t search NM because I grew up here in the Land of Enchantment and nothing in the poem strikes a chord with me.

  3. The Land of Enchantment ~ Been reading about it for the most part of the day.
    A truly wondrous place to.. ‘go’!

    • True SLF..and if you were to buy into all the State’s tourism propaganda you would be led to believe the chest is hidden in NM because nothing of any interest what-so-ever exists above the NM northern border 🙂

      • Dal, the searching in NM archieves , is a blank page, mite be my PC acting up.
        Thank You and Goofy to.

        • Sally I know it’s confusing; it just looks like a blank page because there’s only one post in the archive. Click on Looking in New Mexico Part One and it will open that post for you.

      • Had me scared there for a minute Dal… Had to double check a good map and realized I’m below the NM border line. Not to far, and wrong Mountain Range, but at least I’m still interesting.

      • Dall

        are you secretly trying to imply that a ‘mysterious something’ does indeed exist, somewhere north of the NM border?

        ..is it Canada?

  4. here for two more days then going to go search in NM. thank you for another piece of our solve. YIPPEEEE!!!!!!

    • Hey there, Wildbirder, are you there yet? I’m still traveling and have about 1,000 more miles to get to NM. Take care.

        • Thanks. Back in NM and appreciate the cooler weather! It feels like home! I guess in a while I will get back to business of looking quickly down. I hope to hear from wild birder before they leave town.

      • we left on the 13 of aug spent night in amarillo tx then on to RR NM. we got there on the 14. realized we left oa suitcase at home and made arrangements for it to be mail to us.

  5. This is my opinion, and my opinion only. I have always said the treasure chest is in New Mexico. The poem leads you to New Mexico, and no other state. I believe anyone searching for the treasure chest,and only the treasure chest, in any other state is wasting their money. Of course there is always the fun times you had with the family, but if you are only interested in the treasure chest, in my opinion, it is in New Mexico. The information is in the poem, but it is not easy to decipher. RC.

    • Ok RC in New Mexico it is…are you still hung up on Manbys gravesite. A better question is do you think it’s buried? I believe it’s buried, yes a shovel is necessary. Apparently Forrest told a news reporter she wouldn’t need a shovel. Ask inthechaseto she knows about that. As far as Manby grave don’t know about that.

      So if it isn’t buried why would Forrest say no need to dig up the old outhouses.

      • Cat cut –

        Ask me ? What the heck do I know. That has always been a major point of contention with me. Yes, I think it’s buried – in a way – and no I don’t think you need a shovel.

        I think you are supposed to brush something off it and then there will be something he provided to pull on it. How’s that?

  6. Is the chest hidden in NM?

    Perhaps the bunny
    “nose” but is silent, with the
    rattlesnake nearby.

    “Have flashlight, will travel”

  7. Here we go…It remains my opinon that before the treasure was “in the wood” it was in Santa Fe…waiting for a dying man to take it with him to a place to die. I do not think that a dying man would travel a long distance to “go alone in there”. Indeed Forrest spent time in JellyStone…but his treasure, his love of his life Peggy, his gallery, his friends and associates, his home after the turning point in in his life (Viet Nam), and his Church…”The mountains, rivers, and woods were all in NEW MEXICO! -guy-

    • HMMMM New Mexico. A rancher was out riding the range following a big storm and the washout along the banks of the river exposed an 10000 year old arrow point.

  8. An important question that no one seems to have asked, but I assure you we are all thinking it, especially in New Mexico, just not announcing it, that question is actually very simple, ff has said we will all be surprised when indulgence is found, seems this question I asked him on earthlin has fallen on deaf ears:

    Forrest, it took me a while to get up the wording and courage to ask you this, but here goes:

    In the poem which I will call for lack of any other title, “The Thrill”, do many of the words (metaphors) which represent places (CLUES) that you wrote about, words like “No place for the meek” require an understanding of that place in another language, like say Spanish?

    My solve for that line is the word “Cimarron” which means “Wild” in Spanish. It is wild and No place for the meek and starts (ends) in the Moreno “Brown” Valley.

    In a nutshell, I also suspect that many of the poem’s 166 words, words that we seldom use today like “the end is ever drawing nigh” seem out of place (time) they might as well be GREEK, however I know once the chest is found we will clearly understand their importance and usage.

    Dal, thanks, for not forgetting (one of the 50 is missing) New Mexico, like Texas, ff’s childhood home has had many flags and languages starting with the Native Americans through today, NM is full of riches new and old, that is why ff chose to spend 44 years here.

    Just sayin,

    Tom Terrific

    • Also you can take cimmarron and translate to french ci (here) marron (brun, brown) and willow springs now raton means small rat (no place for the meek) and oh yeah, there is a dry branch of the cimmaron(no paddle up that creek) ooops I have said way too much.

  9. It is my opinion that we should take a better look at grave site definition and go with confidence. Grave site, and not gravesite , I think there is a difference in the meaning. That is the beginning of the search. But not the beginning of the clues. Does anybody see the hint? RC.

  10. RC, I see it. A grave site can be an area where something is buried, like a chest. It is the grave, a home in the ground.
    But…F said not in a grave yard, and he has integrity and spirituality and would not desiccated a grave site area.
    Now, hiding it in an abandoned village site IS a possibility. He likes small towns, especially abandoned ones hundreds of years old.
    Imo, it’s further up north than New Mexico. Just returned from Montana, planning to continue search in the Wy/Mt area one more trip.
    Good luck all. ¥Peace ¥

  11. If you know what is FF secret you will know the chest is in NM.

    ‘heavy loads and water high’

    this is a spot in NM….. a very tight, specific, spot


    imo Navy,…. i hate giving alll my hintaclues

      • Specialklr – as the saying goes, “I don’t know you from Adam,” so let’s start with greetings. As you are aware I’m relatively new to the chase and am not living in proximity to the Rockies, being a flatlander in fly-over country, hence the handle “some where west of Toledo,” or swwot for short.

        Because we really do not know one another very well, it is with some trepidation that I recommend the following information for you and any others that may on occasion quote Bible verses to support a position that they hold. Please allow me to recommend to you (and any others that want to get a really firm grip on just what the Bible does say about life and matters pertaining to how we should live), a great book written by one of my seminary professors that I had the privilege of sitting under back in the 1980’s – that is, “Methodical Bible Study” by Robert Traina.

        So here’s where I am going with this line of thought. Dr. Traina drilled into us the acronym “CIE” which stands for “Context is everything”. While I agree with your sentiment found in the last part of the verse you quoted, that we each should be “convinced in our own minds” concerning where we are to search, Paul is writing to the Romans in this passage not about finding treasure, but of how it is we should treat one another concerning the differneces we have in how we observe special holidays because of how we were raised. He is dealing with cultural norms, instructing them (and us) how not to be offensive when incountering someone whose upbringing and culture are different from theirs (and our own).

        I’ll stop here, as I am sure that you and anyone else reading along thus far has made the connection I was intending to make. That is, please don’t quote Bible verses out of context. Thanx! (Getting off my soapbox now.)

        Now, let’s get out there and find that treasure!

  12. I think the chest is a half a days drive from his home. This would give him time to get to the spot, hide the chest, and get home. Who would like to have over a million dollars with them overnight?

    • Jeb, you are so right, who would carry this on the airlines? ff has not flown as a pilot for some time right? So how do you put a time line on this? Just using common techniques to see how it got there without someone sending out the Mounties. ???

      In the beginning of the search, we were all under the impression that the Treasure chest was literately in the (Rocky) mountains north of Santa Fe, that meant the Sangre De Cristos, which end in Colorado, just short of Leadville.

      Once the Thrill of the Chase gained traction, Yellowstone became a point of focus, regardless, the TC is probably a sandwich away from Santa Fe…??

      • You can drive from Santa Fe to Colorado Springs in about 5 hours maybe more at a 80 year olds pace. AND there are some great spots to hide it in NM. Lots of sage, lots of pinion, animals and one spot is wet. Make sure that you go through raton, it is no place for the meek rat.

  13. Morning friends,

    I like northern NM. for a kazillion reasons… I think f wrote in TTOTC that he moved his family to NM. to heal… why? He could have just as easily went further north where he had ties, but didn’t? He moved to where the Art Scene was happening…IMO, SF and Taos! He met and socialized with some of the coolest people on the planet during his tenure! How cool is that? Perhaps the chest is how f is paying it forward?

    f also wrote from a poem… in that same book, that some houses were built on rock but his in sand and he was good with that. I believe where f sets his hat was his home! Wasn’t he prepared to bleach his bones in the desert…???

    And lastly, if folks believe there is a theme to all this madness… as I do! Then NM. is where the story/theme is still practiced and alive, told and re-told, a place in which we still might be able to see history as its happened and as it’s happening!

    Mark H. The current disaster at the Animas River this week… brings tears!

    • Terrible thing that river mess is. I’m not buying into all the noise over at Mikes blog. F will never eliminate a state…he himself said that he doesn’t want to narrow the search area anymore so either he is forgetting past statements or Mikes info is suspect. I suspect the latter….anyways a lot of people thinking NM and for good reason. I hope ‘she’ hurries up and gets it.

      • I believe “she” is working on it. The hurries up part probably has to do with tarry scant (hurry up – there’s no time — I sound like Jack Bauer on “24”!). The last piece of the puzzle for me was look quickly down. It’s my third interpretation – hopefully, 3’s the charm. Checking out NM soon and will be in MN at the same time as wild bird – perhaps we can meet up 🙂

    • We have a 90 day supply of water so using the water from the faucet as usual. My mom has a big garden and we use ditch water from the animas. I think she’s using city water right now due to the spill for the garden but boy that sure costs. Wonder what will be the case when the 90 days are up.

      • Sorry to hear about having to use City water. There is a drought right now at least in California so my garden is in the same state. Problem with tap water its hardness; where I live it has to be neutralized so that my avocado tree doesn’t keel over. Moving north, which should mend the problem, not for the avocado tree though! Hopefully after 90 days you can find another source. Good luck!

        • Our water is very hard also. Lots of minerals in it. i’m thinking the city may restrict people from using the water for gardens and lawns since we only have a limited supply. After 90 days the problem may be are we going to have water at all, I don’t know. The Animas looked like it had mustard flowing in it when I saw it yesterday. That’s how yellow it looks.

          • Cloudcover –

            There is a moratorium on all outside watering in effect now – but I don’t think it has been well publicized. All city water has always been pulled from the Florida River and so is OK. It’s the people on well water – that are in deep trouble.
            I’m in Durango – where are you?

            Here is fresh water at the fairgrounds.

          • I live in Farmington, well actually Crouch Mesa and my mother lives in Flora Vista between Aztec and Farmington. My Aunt’s (used to be my grandmother’s) house is right on the river and she has well water and city water. When my grandmother was alive she only had the well until maybe the last 10 years of her life but had a faucet with the well water coming up in it remain in her kitchen because she refused to drink city water. I will go by my mom’s tonight to see if she knows she can’t use the city water. Tomatoes were just starting to ripen last week. I guess she will lose it if it doesn’t rain.

          • Cloudcover –

            I only know about water restrictions in Durango – they might be different in Farmington – so check with the city.

            We are supposed to get rain tonight.

  14. EPA-Environmental Protec…err…Pollution Agency. New slogan courtesy of Mel Brooks, “We’ll pipe the $hit right INTO your home”.

  15. Many of you know I truly believe the chest is hidden in NM, but I surely wouldn’t criticize any of you who are looking for it elsewhere. My question to any of you other-state-searchers is: Since the only place to originally buy his book TTOTC was in one book store in Santa Fe, not even the book store in Taos originally offered it, why would you have to go to Santa Fe to buy the book, and then continue driving to WY or Montana to find the chest? His reference to it being found by a family from Texas with kids driving their pickup truck also fits the NM solution because tons of people from Texas vacation in NM. When you are here, just look at the license plates in the various parking lots, especially if you are in a mountainous vacation spot (Red River, Taos Ski area, etc). Of course, I’m not holding the chest…and this is just my opinion.

    • Well Cynthia, a good circumstantial case can certainly be made for it being in New Mexico. An equally good case can be made for it being in the Yellowstone area. Some could argue that even though Fenn loved those two places and wanted people to visit and explore those areas, those would be the last places he would hide the chest simply because everyone would think that is where it is. That line of reasoning would lead you to Colorado since he mentions that state the least.

      Those that think it’s in New Mexico because he couldn’t travel far being sick probably should rethink that reasoning. Elaborate is normal to Fenn. So what does elaborate look like to a guy like Fenn? He said he had an elaborate plan about dying; that chest could be anywhere he wanted it to be.

      Obviously the chest could be in New Mexico but, in my opinion, trying to figure out how Fenn planned on dying is just another rabbit hole to where the chest is not.

      At 4:02 in this interview he said he had an elaborate plan about dying but not ready to talk about it.


      • Exactly, IMO looking for a state to start in is working backwards and just a guess at best. I can see how the poem maybe vague at first to where to start. And why most may think they should pick a state that seems to be the best option and start looking there for WWWH. As goofy stated, good arguments can be made for all those states, so you’re back to the drawing board.

        Maybe the question is, not what state I think WWWH is. but is that the first clue?

        Well, we can argue… Begin in stanza 2 tells us that, or argue the poem starts at the beginning of stanza one. Even give a good argument for stanza 5 that is asking a question, with an answers fenn supplied. Choosing a state or guessing a starting point in the poem is just throwing darts.

        Even better, we all throw our best guess into the ring on what is a word that is key. 5 years into this and that is a whole lot of searches and guessing. No wonder fenn said, the poem did it’s job…

        Could it be we just don’t know how to read the dang poem? But that is only a guess on my part.

  16. Cynthia- My book was delivered by mail to my house. I never went to NM.
    I would guess that many more states’ license plates are to be seen in Yellowstone than in all of NM combined, not than it will be found in YNP.
    These seem to be rather tenuous arguments. I trust that you have better reasons to search NM.


  17. First of all thanks to FF for giving us the Thrill of the Chase, and to Dall and Goofy for all the work you do for all of us searchers.
    Logically, hiding the chest in New Mexico makes a lot of sense, he would not have to travel far to “leave his bones”. New Mexico has indeed been good to him and Santa Fe is definitely important to him. There are a lot of beautiful places in NM and lots of hot springs and rivers with brown trout, and canyons, He talks about the Art Galleria and his pond with the alligators and his house with a waterfall behind it. All very special. These places are not North of Santa Fe, one of the key points. The problem that I have with NM is that I haven’t found any thing written or pictures of places in NM, other than Santa Fe. Most of his stories, other than in Santa Fe are in Texas and the area around West Yellowstone. In the last several years he talks of “Heading North” and flying to Lander, WY. and that he wants his daughter to be a Dr in a place like Lander. His photo of Him fishing with Peggy and Joe Rivera is at the Gallatin river. He took his dad to the YS area in one of his final trips.
    Only FF knows where it is hidden so good luck in NM, or where ever you search. I just want somebody to find it real soon so I can go on with my life! LOL All IMO.

  18. Has anyone investigated waterfalls that fit the context? We were taken to pacheco canyon rd because it fit the elevation, had the word canyon, and we happened upon 2 small waterfalls. There’s an old native American gathering spot right above the area we were drawn to that could have been where FF was first introduced to the elaborate beadwork of the dance ceremonies. It seems to to be on a creek bed, maybe wedged in with old stumps or branches?

  19. I believe this treasure hunt is connected to the Indians of the southwest. what is the difference between (To far to walk) and a (walk to far).

  20. First time poster here.

    For me, most important info from reading the above comments is that the chest probably has still not been found.

    So my research continues. 🙂

    Being a statistician, I like to play around with numbers. My best statistical guess is that the search areas, in order of hunter popularity, are: 1. norther New Mexico, 2. Yellowstone NP area, 3. other areas in Wyoming, 4. other areas in Montana, and 5. state of Colorado. Why is Colorado so, well, neglected? Just curious.

    My approach to this search is a bit different from most people’s.

    Happy hunting.

    Lechuguilla, aka Lech

  21. Here is my thought on New Mexico. I’m from Texas and I wish I was convinced it was in New Mexico. I would be searching once a month because it is so close, but I just don’t think it’s there. Didnt Forrest sort of admit that the vehicle he was driving was rented in the moby dickens bookstore interview? From my understanding Forrest definitely had connections in Montana and I don’t think it would be unreasonable to believe he put together his chest in one of the northern states over a period of years. Just for the record I wish I believed it was in New Mexico, I just don’t see it.

    • ” I don’t think it would be unreasonable to believe that he put together his chest in one of northern states over a period of years”
      So Jonny,if this is correct then please explain how Peggy had seen it in his vault and how a few of his friends in Santa Fe had been shown the chest and its contents. This has been verified by the few fortunate ones.
      A little more research would help you on your way. IMO.. 🙂 I agree with Frank.

    • Jonny, you state “Didnt Forrest sort of admit that the vehicle he was driving was rented in the moby dickens bookstore interview?” I watched the interview again and I never heard him even so much as hint to the car being a rental. Can you source the exact time of the interview that you gleaned this information please?

    • A good reminder not to use treasure hunting as a “get rich quick” avenue, but as an avenue to explore and enjoy gods greatest creation..Stop and smell the rose,s..maybe,just maybe there’s a chest under the bushes.. 🙂
      Good read,Dal. Thanks for sharing.

    • So that’s Darrell………Ya know, if these folks expended half the effort, imagination, and dedication at fixing their lives as they did searching for the treasure they wouldn’t have a problem in the world. That seems odd to me; but lots of things in this world seem odd to me.

    • Hi, I’m BW and it has been 5 minutes since my last since my last computer search!

      This chase creeps into the crevices of the brain even as we sleep. We dream about it, we read about it, we talk about it, and we write about it hoping that we will find it. Some of us have become obsessed to the point of no return.

      For some it fills the gap of time, others the need for that adrenalin rush, for a few it takes the place of a void long in growing, and some to bring the family closer. But we all start with one little thought, “That would be fun, I’ll try, or I could use the money.” Along the way a switch flips.

      Darrell, I feel your pain.

      Daily I remind myself of the purpose of Mr. Fenn’s quest, and pull back to not have as tight of a focus, I still want to look at the big picture.

      IMHO. 🙂

  22. This man was sort of the Leonardo Da Vinci of North America and integral in mapping the treasure of the land acquisition for future endeavors. His art & cartography is also highly valued and sought after by early American collectors. I just recognized that he named the waterfall canyon after himself which eventually became a road nearby our search spot.

    Bernardo de Miera y Pacheco (4 August 1713 – 4[1] or 11[2] April 1785) was “perhaps the most prolific and important cartographer of New Spain”[3] as well as an artist, particularly as a Santero (wood-carver of religious images).[4] He has been called a polymath, being “proficient in astronomy, cartography, mathematics, geography, geology, geometry, military tactics, commerce, husbandry, oenology, metallurgy, languages, iconology,iconography, liturgy, painting, sculpture and drawing.

    Was this guy important in mapping out the United States’ first capital city and surrounding area? It seems he would be a fitting integration into a treasure map adventure. It seems like fun to me…

  23. i believe spas really fit the bill,where warm water halts. look beyond the spa,what do they do with the water after it is used. water must be treated before it is released back into the environment. check out jemez springs, i can tell on the satallite that they have a water treatment facility,this is also another where warm water halts going through the treatment. but where do they release it after cleaning it up i know their are canyons near by,their are many spas in new mex

  24. Spent the greater part of the morning on a few informative sites, including some highlighting a variety of languages – translations. I enjoy learning even more as I travel to other locations that appear to be connected with them.

    Home = CASA
    Brown = MARRON

    Raton, NM : Home of the Brown Ranch ( Looks to be a wonderful area. )

    Folsom: First place of a campfire!

    Long Canyon, Wedding Cake Mountain, Rabbit Ears Creek, Wisdom River, Wise River…..including smaller airports and Museums nearby.

    Dry Cimmaron Creek Including 3 Springs: Lower Middle and Upper

    Brown Bridge (Historical Landmark)

    Uncompahgre National Forest (UTE)

    Owl Creek Pass is at 10,114 – Owl Creek Ridge can appear as a deep, dark orange at certain times of the day.

    Another great morning!!

  25. SLF I think you will find it today. You can email me if you want a spot to look. Raton also means small rat (no place for the meek) and the town name was originally willow springs but was renamed for all the rats coming out of the mines. OMG Heavy loads probably came from those mines. NOT to mention the Capulin Volcano. I am sure it blazed way. and the train robbery by black jack ketchum who is the only man hanged for train robbery. And folsom man site. and the folsum waterfall and the fact that a telephone operator stayed at her station when the water was high during the flood and died with the others in the early 1900’s. AND Folsom was originally called MADISON until grover clevelands wife Francis Folsum hopped off the train and the town was renamed Folsum. And in order to leave folsum you can get hit by the train because it makes a loop around the city. And plenty of pinion and sage plants grow there. Bell is another town near folsom. OMG IMHO I may have just found it and said too much.

    • Thanks, end of the chase.

      I’m still reading; still getting a thrill from the chase. Just the beginning.

      Love this History class!


    • How does Raton (small rat) have anything to do with no place for the meek? I am not drawing the conclusion…


      Rookie Lynn

  26. endofthechase, If you want to tell me a spot to look, please give me your e-mail. I like the Raton area. Have you studied about the Maxwell Land Grant? The history of the Maxwell Land Grant is fascinating.

    I try to keep my “search” simple; and I try to focus on the poem. And I try to AVOID finding importance in “silly, little coincidences”: but here’s a “silly, little coincidence” that I like to think about: ff’s friend, Douglas Preston, wrote a book called The Codex, which is a fiction story. In the Acknowledgments, the author says Forrest Fenn “gave me the idea for this novel.”. In this book, the man who hid his treasure is named: Maxwell. Isn’t that funny?

    • I did know the connection between FF and the codex but did not know the Maxwell part. Want to have more fun, the brown and bear canyons are both back hollers of the dry cim range near raton. That lady from texas would easily pass raton if they were going to look for the tc. The brown family homesteaded a piece of land and family members still live on the property.

    • A connection between ‘Maxwell’ and…. Raton, (*The Old Raton Pass Road) might be of interest to you as well?

      So much history. A great journey ~

      • Interesting stories about these two: Maxwell and Springer. Springer, NM was once…Maxwell, NM .

        Kind of humorous in a way, and a lot of good reading!

        Going back in history and finding the many connections related to the life and times of Forrest Fenn; including some of his ancestry….is the kind of stuff that dreams are made of.

        Wish we had an FF History school book to study from back then. ~

        • I know, isn’t that funny: Springer used to be Maxwell . . . and there’s an old Hotel in Springer named the Brown Hotel. The Brown Hotel is on Maxwell Avenue. Hee Hee. I wanted to visit the Brown Hotel, but I believe it is closed now.

          • Brown Hotel was listed for sale last winter when I was researching the area. Oh and btw. There was a boys home near springer and not the Philmont ranch.

  27. Just got back from my first hunt in northern NM. Came up empty-handed but my son and I had quite an adventure. I emailed Mr. Fenn to thank him for providing such a great time in beautiful country and described my theory to him. He wrote me back this morning to wish us luck! What a thrill that was! I’m convinced it’s in NM and will trek from El Paso to try again next chance I get!

  28. What an opportunity! Will your son be able to join you on the next trek? (Mine is currently reading about The Philmont Scout Ranch in Cimarron) – W O W !!

    Wishing you all the best in the Chase, Adam ~

    • Thank you SLF! Yes I’ll definitely take him along on my next run. We had an amazing time together. I just Googled that ranch and it looks like a fun place. Hope your son gets to go! Best wishes

  29. I went up to Pilar, New Mexico today. My intention was to try and find another way down to the confluence of the Rio Pueblo and The Rio Grande. Or, at least a trail that I could go down. What I found was a narrow wash with few rocks that took me to the edge of the cliff side.
    Along the way through the bush and cactus I noticed a white rock sitting on a black boulder. It is a nice lump of white crystal, which I replaced with another white rock. It looked like somebody had placed it there to mark a direction. I followed a rabbit path through the brush. I found a curious petroglyph on a boulder behind some cactus and sage. It was the image of a box with two circles side by side, a small rectangle above them, a line parallel to the top, and two more lines from the top right…like rabbit ear antennas…It was an old petroglyph of a radio. Why would they do this? Why Here? or is there something to hear? Yeah, very funny, mister whoever you are.
    I also found another stick figure up the way, but beneath it was an old Spanish carving of a maltese cross on the forehead of a mans face which was carved out of the rock.
    Also learned today: there are TWO Rio Pueblos. The one that comes from Taos Pueblo, and the one that runs parallel to NM75. From Sipapu, all the way down through Embudo canyon to the Rio Grande. And that one is better than Cimarron canyon. Now we know.

  30. My way of thinking is that we must start at the beginning of the poem which is the first stanza. I think if Mr. Fenn knew that the second stanza was the most important in the poem he would have written, “Begin it where warm waters halt” at the beginning. It is my opinion. RC.

  31. A quick question. Why was looking in NM part one shut down to comments. It was all starting to make sense and cum together then it was closed to comments. This new thread isn’t picking up where it left off. Where did everybody go. Also I’ve noteiced in the old thread every time the discusion got good and everyone was puting their heds together and really making sence of it all someone come in blatanty post something faroff from the subject ond the mind meld would warp and every one went back to their own way of solving. I’ve always been able to read between the lines and interpet things that othere just can’t see. And I see a lot of this on here. belivieve me I don’t comment much and when I do its just to to tease everyone a bit. But it was all truth with no intention to distract. Cloud cover, old shadows dal, mark and a few others that took inters in my solves. Thanks for beeing open minded and reread what I wrote. There are to many subltle cluse I have found that match with the book and with photos that back up my ramblings and theories. Also the fact that after thee years of research on this area there is very little written. About this small search area of about. Three square miles. I call this placel the invisibleneedle. Oh and a huge thanks to Stephanie. If you had a chance to search this area I hope you found the monuments I mentioned. Look for MONUMENTS that look like or resemble any picture or drawing that ff has written about and I promise you will find it in there. Including the shadow.

    • I went up there yesterday and I do believe it is the best place in New Mexico to search.
      It would be nice if your earlier posts could be collected and posted in the Scrapbooks.
      While driving up the road, NM75, I saw a memorial for MIA war veterans. It overlooked the canyon. It seems like it would be a good place to start.

    • I did see the road that went up to the mine and it had a locked gate on it if I remember correctly. And I think there was a road that went past it running parralel with 75 for a little while then turning in towards the canyon but I’m probably not remembering right. I didn’t descend into the canyon that day it was so hot I couldn’t stand it. A cold glass of iced tea in an air conditioned restaurant was calling my name and we abandoned our search early that day a few summers ago. The embudo box is an ideal hiding place. It will never be developed in my opinion because of lack of accessibility. I am quite certain that Forrest has fly fished there and is aware of the local history and is fond of the place. The mystical aspects of it that you bring up would only enhance it in terms of desirability in the eyes of Mr. Fenn I’m thinking.

      • That second road you metioned is the one you need to take It onlyy goes about about a quarter mile in. Find a a place to park I recomend turning your vehicle around before you leave on your walk unless you don’t mind a few more scratces or dings on it. At this point you have three roads to the right a green gate, in the center a wire gate,and to the left a road the leads to hell I think, don’t go left, stay on the center road (wire gate) its a bit rough lots of loose rock and slipery when wet, only about a hundred yards o so. There are a few roads that branch of to the right stay to your left untill you run into your first left a this point (toma el pecho y valle en pas) which means take the chest and go in peace, or say your prayers and go with god. Look down and ask yourself if you think ff could make two trips in one day, and your answer should be no if its yes then you have issues this walk down to the box is not for the meek or even some children if you decide to go down ther please take pleny of water the scenery looks like your at twelve thousand feet and its fresh and cool in the early morning. In reality your walking into hell (AKA The road on the left) back where you parked your car. This place is like a scorching deset during the summer months. It is also the only place to cross the embudo box called a ford . Looking down the canyon Thee peek to your left is cerro alto to the right is cerro de la cruz behind that is cerro de la rana. Cruz and rana are also known as tetillo peek. Which meens CHEST. IF its not on your map get another map. Rana means frog. And cerro means heavy loads. Turn and look to your right ( west) and all those peeks are cerros. These Cerros are also referred to and kn.own as natural springs (water holes) waters high? Take the chest and go in peace. Between rana and cruz is wherf you will hear the heart beating drums. Be safe

        • You know what Sancho, I have to work today and tomorrow then its off to Cali to see my daughter but I have all of next week off and we were planning to be in the area anyway. For treasure hunting, camping and of course some sippin brew at the Blue Heron. So, I think I might go out there and check it out that is if I can stand the heat. I’d like to hear the drums.

        • Sancho,
          My solve and some of what you have mentioned have intersected. Is there a way to get to the Embudo from the Chamisal side?

          • You can entter the box through chamisal. But you have to, drive through private property with privately owned roads to get to the public property. And then the road that leads the box is closed to motor vehicles. From there its about a two and a half mile walk to the box. Also from where you park you can head east towards the China falls there is an old game trail that will lead you down to the rio pueblo. Its kinda hard to find and stay on course cause the newer game trails look more promising. And there is on lye one way in and the same way out. Unless your willing to swim your way out. In that area the river is deep and the banks are steep. And its still about a mile and a half walk from where you park, not including all the wrong trails your going to back tract. You can also get to the china falls off of 75. Park your car at the road nearest to the pueblo fence line right befor the cattle guard. Walk down that road and stay to the left the last 30 or so feet your going to have to jump. Trust me its safe. This is where we used to go cliff jumping. Its about half a mile walk but its a steep walk. Hope this helps.

    • Well said Sancho but NM is the Land of Enchantment. Nothing is normal except for the split personality. Which is why I only fit in half the time. Your comments have been appreciated, even though I can only remember half of them.

    • Sancho-
      When threads get a lot of comments they start to load very slow on reader’s computers. Typically we start a new page on a thread around the time there are 700 or so comments…or when the complaints start rolling in. You can always read the old comments on the archived pages for that thread.

  32. If the story of the disbursement of Olga’s ashes by flight has a hint in it for readers and searchers, then after listening to ff described his relationship with that kind and gentle person then the 90 mile flight to deposit her ashes on “Taos Mountain” ff definitely was TOUCHED, so much so that he has given us 3 hints and they are clear and an easy pick out, Red, Black and Green tea or Multiple t’s, which are all mountains MTS in NM. They are in a straight line with one another and also a story in Thrill, see Google earth, or a good map of Philmont, the “Touch Me Not” mt, which is near the only major Gold Strike ever in NM, at Elizabeth Town, NM. Riches new and old?

    I know that “No place for the meek” has baffled a lot of serious searches for a while, but if you use Spanish as your language (instead of English) you realize that from there the Cimarron (wild) Creek/River starts or ends near these 4 mountains, Green Mt, Touch Me Not Mt, Black and Red.

    This is not coincidence, look for them on any Philmont Map, the Cimarron River dissects the Philmont Scout Ranch, does any one besides me think that ff might want a young Boy Scout (child) to find the TC even many years from now?

    I think this is the solve that makes more sense than any other so if you think so and would like to know more email me


    Tom T

    PS see this


      • The last Chase running the Chase ranch was Gretchin Sammis. She passed way on August 15th 2012 I believe just days after we left the area. I had talked many family members into a vacation in Cimmarron. You have to pass Chase ranch and the old Philmont headquarters(I think its Deer Camp now) to get to Elliott Barker wildlife area, the Rich Cabins on Ted Turners land(also used by Philmont) and into the gorgeous Valle Vidal. Not usual way to get into the Valle. Read the Chases of Cimmarron to get a nice feel for the history of the area.

        • Okay, to get to the Elliot Barker SWA go east of Cimarron and turn north on 204. As for the Valle Vidal, take 1950 a long way between Amalia and 64 east of Cimarron. There are forest roads that may provide a short cut if you have a 4wd. I’d be interested in finding Riches Cabins if they hint of riches new and old.

          • Hi Mike , just wanted to say hey and spark some chatter . What do you think about Gravel Pitt Lake “Heavy Loads and water high ” ? And what do you think about Maverick Park ? Seems to be a good blaze… At least with google. Wish you the best of luck . Also when you asked me where that little water fall was in Colorado was … My directions were a bit off . But when heading into Lyons take 66 to why 7 and turn left … There will be a totem there , with eye’s all over it … Cant miss then stop here 40 12 13.20 n
            105 18 39.70 w
            This is where that water fall is and the picture we found . Hope you enjoy this spot we did as a family. Also one thing there is a young moma cat there . She is not aggressive , but she is making this a place where she raises her cubs. We found a fresh kill here and only the stomach was used. So , we figured this is where she feeds them .. Then one day while filming our camera man stuck his head in a hole and she hissed … Boy talk about freaking him out … I guess her babies were with her cause I saw her also and she was tucked in tight with her back too us… And she wasn’t coming out , but she sure let us know not to come any closer . Like I said she seems like she will avoid you , but keep a eye on ya… Have fun there and , check out Lyons Clock , and the art that is around the area … I think you may have to even ask your self if F may have been or placed it around the area ..If you use your Imagination there you may see something I missed.. Good Luck have fun … Best time to visit is Spring… When the water is flowing at it’s highest … Take care.

          • 1950 or the cerresoso road was the most common way to get unto the Valle but you can get there too by taking 204 past chase ranch. It becomes Forrest road 1910 in the Valle. When we went past the Rich cabins there were many boy scouts there. Be cool to go up in the fall and see them after the scouts are gone.

          • I guess I should add that once you get to the edge of Elliott barker you have to walk into the Valle Vidal. You cannot drive right up to the Rich cabins and you may need permission also. We walked right into the midst of the boy scouts and asked aphilmont ranger if we could go on up the trail.

      • Michael, The Chase Ranch is a little ways North of the UU Bar. The Chase Ranch is kind of East of Philmont. I believe, the best way to find the Chase Ranch is: take 64 NE out of Cimarron, then turn left onto 204. If I remember correctly: real soon after you are on 204, you will see a sign mentioning Chase Ranch (on the right). I hope I described this correctly – I do get lost everywhere I go.

        Michael, I always love reading your posts. Would you like to go on a search with me? I’ll be in NM in Sept.; and I have some good ideas of places to look . . . and I KNOW you have great ideas!

  33. Tom, thanks for all the good info. I made a Philmont trek back 1968, and it is wonderful area. I don’t consider the scout ranch as a viable hiding place because of the limited access, you have to be a scout, as far as I know, to get into the property. I don’t think Forrest would have wanted to limit who can find the chest, but I sure he would be happy if a boy scout did find it. The ranch that is outside of Philmont that recently was given to the BSA for public use could be a viable spot. All IMO.

    PS Would somebody please hurry and find the chest, I think we all need some relief from this mind breaker.

    • Fossil Forest near the Northeast entrance, (Tower Junction) at West Yellowstone Park could be a wise beginning to a marvelous experience! (Before crossing the Lamar River, at the last pullout on the road).

      No trail or mark to speak of; just continue East to Specimen Ridge. You should see two large areas of brown dirt, separated by a cluster of trees.

      If you leave the highway and cross the sagebrush; there will be a HUGE petrified redwood tree stump. ( Close to 27 feet in circumference!)

      It’s been said that a Crow Indian man once cast a spell on this mountain. Even the Sun and Moon and birds were said to be affected. (The view from this wonderful place must be truly awesome!) I can only imagine.

      Hope this comment can offer a bit of relief.


      • I think Olga would have been a person that I would have so enjoyed having a chat(s) and cup of tea with. I can recall Forrest’ mention of her.

        Takes a skilled flyer to dispose of remains and a kind and loyal heart to carry the journey through. If this was a personal request asked by Olga; no doubt in my mind that he followed through with it.

        Forrest Fenn personified ~


      • SLF, I think you meant to put this on the Looking In MT-WY thread. Or are you looking for the poems path to cross 3 states?

        • I believe that many paths ‘cross’ towards a single Rocky Mountain State.

          When I think of Olga and others; I can feel hearts overflowing with a golden essence of pure love.


  34. “You know what’s wrong with New Mexico? There’s too much outdoors.” ~Charles Tatum (Kirk Douglas) from Ace in the Hole.

    • Dal
      Can we start a special page just for me where I can just send in my stupidest ideas for locations? Here’s the first one, or rather latest one…I am about to drive to one or two locations which are actually SOUTH of Santa Fe. Stupid is as stupid does.

      • Well, as my third grade teacher ms. Kumpe would attest…I am easily distracted. This was the case for me yesterday. I hope to make amends to my better self later this week, but in the mean time….the chase continues, albeit lighter in the hip.

  35. Has anyone created a radius of 8.25 miles from the center of Santa Fe? It just seems interesting how he would mention a specific chain measurement that would come out to be 8.25 miles rather than simply 8 miles. Does anyone see this as having some sort of importance relative to the starting point?

    • Anthony, a radius will not create an 8.25 distance “NORTH” of Santa Fe, except at due north, we are talking Latitude, not radius so anywhere north, that is at (least) 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe could be 16 miles north of Las Vegas, NM or the KKTO TV tower in Jemez, Mts. ff was a pilot and must be a great navigator and map reader as well.

      Since 90 seems to be very important number to ff, like say 90 degrees (Due East) and since his brother Skippy drowned in a cave at 90′ and Olga’s ashes took a trip of 90 miles as well, did any one notice what page of “Thrill” Skippy and his father are featured on? Also what is he holding, a degree? It’s on Page 51 and what is circled on page 51 in the postmark over their old address, yep 141 is circled, 141 minus 51 is also 90. That postmark on that page is the only postmark in the entire book (19 others) that appears on an odd numbered page. Coincidence? I do not believe. The odds of that occurring accidentally (randomly) are about a million to one, so it was no accident.

      We all know from Google Earth that Camel Rock is 8.3 miles nearly due north of Santa Fe, but no many people know that Las Vegas, NM is 8 miles south of Santa Fe, and if the Map in Too Far to Walk is the same as the Google Earth, then 8.3 miles north of Santa Fe on I 25 is a curious town named Waterous, NM, that is where the turn off for Ft Union, NM is.

      IS Anyone listening?

      Also on the same highway that you access Ft Union is another curious town called Golondrinas, (Swallows english) and does anyone else know that Cozumel, Mexico where Skippy drowned in a cave at 90′ in the Mayan language means SWALLOWS?

      Just some food for thought..Life deals you 4 cards and a joker, do they play cards in Las Vegas or Cimarron or Philmont?

      Just sayin

      Tom T

        • Edword, on a compass 90 is due east, furthermore in geometry a right “triangle” is defined as having one 90 degree angle, that makes an easy (unique) tool for navigation, in measuring any distance and direction if you know the length of one side of the right triangle, you can easily compute the other legs of it to help you create a vector, its real handy in the flight of a plane or plotting a ships course using time and the old fashioned Sextant a must on ships for centuries.

          The last known whereabouts of Indulgence was Santa Fe, NM so every time he says “North of Santa Fe in the Mountains” I suspect 90 is important, whether it be miles or degrees, but actually it might be that the 8.25 miles north comment was ff’s way of saying he was not so good with math, tongue in cheek…Ha Ha! He may mean 83 miles as the crow flies. and a vector thrown in just for confusion, that joker likes to confuse, confound, amaze, astonish, dumbfound, stagger, surprise, startle, stun, throw, shake, discompose, bewilder, bedazzle, baffle, mystify, bemuse, perplex, puzzle, etc;

          Tom T

      • Does anyone have a link to where Forrest actually said “8.25 miles north of Santa Fe”? I know he said 66,000 links, and the mathematicians in the bunch calculated that to be 8.25 miles, but I don’t think much should be made of that exact number. Even in “Forrest Gets Mail – 8” he says 8 miles…nothing to see here…move along…IMO.

        • Look in Richard Sauniers blog Mountain Walk under Forrest Fenn Land Surveyor, comments section.

          It reads:
          Forrwst Fenn april 17, 2012 mountainwalk.org/2012/04/16/forrest-fenn-land-surveyor/
          Since Richard mentioned the olden days lets harken to 1620 when universal land measures first became law in England and America. As you rode your horse into town you had to pass 80 telephone poles in order to reach a mile because they were 1 chain apart, or 66 feet. And each chain had 100 links, if
          you wanted to break it down further. Road rights-of-way also were 1 chain wide.
          And 80 square chains made a square mile, or 640 acres – and that was 1 section of land.
          But if you’d rather count fence posts you had to pass 320 in order to reach a mile because they were a rod apart, or 16.5 feet. And since everyone knew that an acre was 10 square chains (43,560 square feet) it was easy to tell how many acres were in your neighbor’s farm.
          Some aspects of those measures are still in use today in the horse racing business because a furlong is 10 chains in length, or 660 feet. You should feel smarter now because that’s so easy.
          If you want to apply those important figures into the thrill of the chase I will give you an additional clue. The Treasure chest full of gold and precious jewels is more than 66,000 links north of Santa Fe.

          100 links = 1 chain
          66,000 links = 660 chains (66,000 ÷ 100)
          1 chain = 66 feet
          660 chains = 43560 feet (660 x 66) = 8.25 miles
          So. . . according to Forrwst’s, the treasure is greater than 8.25 statute miles north of Santa Fe. This explanation in no way endorses the claim.

      • Correct. That is what I intended. These old arthritic fingers skip keys on occasion. My point was that the starting point could be anywhere as I understand it.

  36. 51+141 might be another way of applying that. We might never know if it’s significan or not.

  37. In spanish “hint of riches” transelates to ” pico de rices ” in its context it reads “te pico rices ” to me I believe this is picuris puebblo . Which is also the HOB..edu/cdm/ref/collection/sit/id/27″>Picuris Pueblo through time: eight centuries of change in a northern Rio Grande pueblo this artical also explanes the “new and old ” as I mention before “WWWH” is called an embudo or La Junta . Which means a place where spring runoff, irrigation, rain , gather and become one this would be the Rio Grande del norte. So you see the first stanza tells you which warm waters to look for. And the HOB backs this theory as well. “Not far but to far to walk” also backs tis theory meaning a really long walk which also translates ” un camino real” . The Camino Real is an old wagon trail used to carry tradei goods to taos (if you look up the high road to taos it also backs this theor,. Cause it also runs along embudo creek wich is to far to walk. Put all my rambling in order and you have your first three clues and lots of himts to support them. Check the milee between la junta and tetillo peak you get exactly ten miles. Coincidence? If anyone finds any literature on tetillo peek could you please let me know where you found it. The page I fount it in was an artical written by Juan Estevan Arellano-Remember our predecessors. But when I downloaded it there was a blank page , and this is where I belive he mentions tetillo peek. Ff tells us that many have figured the first two clues and drove past the treasure. Which is easy to do in this area with little access. This area is where three counties meet all in one point and forn or a Y which a symbol for a bell. The book gives us a pic with a bell and a frog on it the map also has a frog. Rana means frog in spanish. The shadow I mentioned is also on the twin peeks. And just obout every pic ive seen in the book or read on his blogs is in this area including a one of a kind blaze. The poem and hints discribe this area in great detai. If if decide to check it out youll see what I mean. I could go on and on with examples and and not hsve a problem backing them up with solid proof. But the only way to make you a believer is if you go there yourself. Happy hunting.

    • I know your comment is addressed to everybody but there is quite a bit of what you are saying in my solve, my big solve that I’ve been nursing for a long time. It’s not that I don’t know what you are saying and will only be a believer when I get there. Our solves are not identical of course and I love the stuff you have brought up that I hadn’t thought about before. Of course many of the spanish names for places in that area I’ve researched. I wish my husband were still here to tell me more stories of northern NM. If you grew up in Penasco you and he might have much in common. I grew up in NM too but in the four corners area. One aspect of what you brought up are about certain lines that form a Y. I relate two of those lines to the two biddies mentioned in two stories in TToTC. In one, the biddies created the line and when the biddies moved, so did the line. Forrest followed the line in the ttotc story to where the biddies were not where they went.

      • Im sorry in no way am I trying to give up someone elses solve. I have been reading post and comments on the chase for three years now and have not heard a single thing about this area even after I mentioned it a couple times . If this is part of your solve I wont post on it any more. Ive made about 3 trips looking for the trove, and a many number of others fishing and hunting and many more rock hounding. In other words this is lterally my back yard. Never nothiced all the monuments till I started looking for the trove. My grandfather worked for the forest service , and he used to take us hunting to all the honey holes. He taught us alot about carson and the camino real. His old maps are to die for . Complete with names of just about every trail path or road, and every cerro, creek , hot spring, natural spring well you get it. 7f im wrong on this solve and its not there the poem is to vague and it will never be found. But I dout im wrong ive given alot away and I do rember u saying something about this area . So ill give you a jump start tell you exactly where the blaze is and the shadow. And which peak its on and what to look for. If you want it let meknow. But I do recall you saying you were on the ell valle side. Thats where the poem took me on my first solve but it is some rough walking on that side. And there is to much private property olso your car isnt safe there if your not a local. So friend me on my wifes fb page youll find here in ttotc fb page look for the cropped shadow pic and that would be me.

        • Okay Sancho. But I don’t have a facebook page so I will have to do it from one of my sons’. so you will get a friend request from someone by the last name Duran.

        • Hi Sancho, I’ve been following all your posts & hope you are not giving up or giving away too much. Dont feel rushed. A partnership might be a good choice if you feel you can’t navagate as you used to. Be careful, be selective, and good luck.

          • I don’t need anyone’s information. I have my own solve. How dare you act like I’m trying to get information out of someone just because I showed some interest in what he had to say.

          • If you are responding to me Cloudcover, I think you are projecting something that was not intended. Get a grip. I liked Sanchos thinking and attitude for years now, and I hope his accident does not interfere with his ability to hunt for the TC. If you and he partner because you are working the same area, good luck to both of you, and I offer the same, be careful, be selective.

        • I’m going to bet you’re wrong, and it’s arrogant to say that just because your solve may be wrong that it is too vague and will never be found. It just means that line of thinking is wrong.

          • @seabee88 como quando y porque yo no se la verda yo no se…..and you have posted? ask me no questions and ill tell you no lies…..arrogent…maybe but at least im not ignorant what i write i have researched all on my own and i have never asked for anyones intell unlike u find your own WW.

          • I only understood about half of that. Also not sure what you meant by asking for intel. I’ve had my own WW for 2 years, and I’ve shared it several times on here.

        • @sancho As a NM want a be searche,r I like reading what you post and from I’ve seen you are one of the few who has a handle on Spanish as a second language! It’s really great to read yours and Cloud’s and Michael H.’s post, first hand locals who are out there. Could you elaborate on what you mean by the possibility of vandalism to out of state/town vehicles? Punk kids from down the way or what? Sounds like you have access to some really good maps. I’ve seen some of the timber company maps from where I live with just about every skid trail and log landing from the mid 1800’s depicted, good intel for sure. As for posting ideas and sharing thoughts that’s what this blog is all about I thought…..it’s all a unilateral agreement with no implied terms or conditions of sharing the pie! IMO and LOL!

          • Cant say for sure who is vandalizing the vehicles in that area. If I had to guess I would say its the local drunks and addicts. You should be ok until the sunsets, personally I wouldnt leave it parked on public land your better of asking someone if you could park in there yard or property. The north side of the box is patrolled by the mines curator . If you get a chance to talk to him he will answer any questions you may have. Also if you translate box to Portuguese it means put in. A put in , in Navajo is a deep canyon where ceramonies are held. along 75 between dixon and penasco is canada pedra lumbre which means fire rock. And north of 75 is the agua caliente hot springs and the fire leap cliffs. The road the the hot springs is closed to motor vehicles, my grandfather used to drive us to pillar though the back road’s. HOB could also be the Picuris land grant. In Chamisal there is a small landing srip in cerro Colorado from there is a road that takes you to Ell Valle and Questecita, then back down to Dixon. Above the public parking area in Questecita is Cerro Abrevadero which means water(s) high. It also translates to brave or fierce. On top of cerro abrevadero there is an old landing strip. This is also where the embudo box ends. This cerro literally translates to brave and in the wood. Also north of Abrevadero is cerro de los Arboles which means trees or woods. This is where the poem led me in my first solve. Mainly because of Ell Valle Pass, and the old wagon trail that crosses embudo creek to the camino real. This crossing was the only way to get a wagon to taos . Take the chest and go in peace. Which literally translates take the box or ford through Ell Valle Pass. If this makes any sense at all, you will find yourself back at the beginning of the poem WWWH. In my opinion your first and last stanza of the poem are the most important. And if your solve doesnt take you in a complete cricle then your solve is wrong. FF says in the end youll find yourself back at the beginning. Thats why he tells us not to look for the blaze untill we figure out WWWH. I figure the chest is in or on a natural warm mineral spring surrounded by trees that dont belong and grow in threes. ? WATERS HIGH. an abrevadero(watering hole) . Good luck.

          • I just tried to check your translations with a few of my Spanish speaking coworkers here in Albuquerque. I got three different answers. That is the problem with the spanglish around here. But since your New Mexico solve is the best one, I’ll take your word for it, Sancho.

          • That would be interesting. I am available Fridays and Saturdays. The only problem is that I am limited in my mobility. 500ft on even terrain is all I can do. From what I remember, you also have physical limitations. If this would be a hinderance then I must decline.

          • im walking about half a mile at a timmee with several breaks my solve is about three fourths of a mile all flat but the first hundredred yards is a small climb. i think our handicap might get us vehicle access thru the gate. ill check .

          • You go guys. You’ve both been so frank & generous with your knowledge and ideas, I hope the fates treat you likewise.

        • Sancho you wrote: If im wrong on this solve and its not there the poem is to vague and it will never be found.

          Many searchers have had the same sentiment over the years. It’s very discouraging to work hard at a solution and make all the clues fit only to find nothing there. It just has to be there; the solution is too perfect for it not to be.

          Hang in there; you’ve got some good ideas. I know that area has been searched extensively by a couple off road clubs (I photograph some of the events for off road mags), but that doesn’t mean it isn’t there. Everyone has just driven right past it. 🙂

          Several people think you have to be in the right spot at the right time of day/year to see the blaze. If anyone’s solution follows this line of thinking I highly recommend the “Photographer’s Ephemeris”. It gives you the light/shadow angles of the sun/moon anytime of the day for any year. I use it a lot. It’s very helpful getting the correct position for photographing an event or landscape; and seeing the blaze. 🙂


          • Re: Goofy’s mention of Photoephemeris
            If price is an issue LightTrac is a 5 star app for $4.99. I use this app but have not compared the differences.

    • Sancho, Thanks for your thoughts, I have been trying to come up with a path using the Picuris Pueblo for the last month. Not knowing the area, what you have to say opens up new ideas.


  38. Weird things are going on in my computer. While doing a search on something completely different, the ghost in the machine redirected me to a page describing my old solve. The ghost put it right at the top of the search engine results even though it didn’t contain the word I was searching for.
    Ghosty says,

    The ecology and zoology is all there. The directions on the page are different than the route I took. I would take 77 to Old Buckman and down to Diablo Canyon. This other way I shall have to look at.

  39. Hi folks we had to run grandson home and are on our way back to nm to search. We maybe looking for a person who can hike. m.nelsonm25@gmail. com should be back tomorrow stopping in Amarillo to rest.

  40. I had a disturbing dream recently that the chase was some kind of man-hunt game devised by twisted individuals who forced f to publish the poem in order to lure unsuspecting searcher(s) into a “middle-of-nowhere” crossfire. It was truly terrifying and I was shaking and punting when I woke up.

    I had reached my spot when all of a sudden shots rang out and I found myself shot in the chest. It was crazy ish and I hope I never have another nightmare like that again. Sweet dreams everyone. 😉

  41. @Pl289 regarding your recent nightmare/dream lots of good symbolism, shot in the chest ‘The Chest’, crossfire X marks the spot, middle of nowhere, man hunt, lots of people treasure hunting for sure…shots rang out, bells ringing on target?…..maybe seeing the spot is to much for some of us, that much energy all at once…IMO, my recall has been terrible all summer just now getting back to a couple a morning last night was getting permission from some old timer to hike his land and had to cross a stream several times to get to a rock with some ancient writing on it…

    • Yeah, I’ve tried to steer away from making too many connections to stuff on here or IRL like dreams in connection to the chase. If I did that every time I’d end up crazy and telling people he was masquerading as one (or more) of you just to throw us off the trail)s) which are many and varied. F is old and doesn’t mean any harm, and too many of us try and read too much into what he does actually say, which is getting more disjointed to say the least (God bless him). Besides, what 84 year old man would want to spend his last years screwing with people’s heads. That’s sadistic and I have a hard time seeing a grandpa as sadistic. Even if he was, that’s his ball to play (insert golf ref here), not mine. If the bracelet means that much to him, he knows exactly where it is. All due respect of course, and I do understand why he says he doesn’t care if it take a thousand years to find it. How can he care? Too many trails and too many acres to search. IMO it will still be out there long after he’s resting peacefully on the other side. This chase is fun, but it’s not worth what some put themselves through…but then that’s their ball to play.

  42. Good luck and careful drive. Great to hear you will be back to NM soon. I do not know of anyone who can hike – hubbie and I are too old for hiking.

  43. Interesting, how many of us are too old, too sick, too broken, too poor, too far to search, but still we follow this chase, visualizing mountains and streams that harbor that little treasure box.
    We praise and we scold, we applaud the efforts of some, and recoil from others. Some talk too much, some too little. My thanks to the good government of this site.

  44. Too old to hike – but I do not think hiking is required – at least not in my solve. As I wander around the state I see those who chose to shortcut the poem, as if that is going to help. One sedan was traveling with about 10 cameras attached to its roof. Inventive way to try to find the blaze I suppose. But I doubt it can be found while driving. Driving only gives one angle of view.

        • Kathryn — maybe you spotted a car collecting data for Google Streetview? They’re pretty obvious-looking, though — most of the cars are white with green doors, with a soccerball-like camera mounted atop a 4-foot post.

          • My original thought. But the ones I’ve seen before all were marked to indicate Google. Given the area, I doubt it. They were either doing a ytube or searching for the blaze. No worries for me because my blaze cannot be seen from a road.

  45. I noticed in Forrest’ Book Too Far To Walk he has a map and on the backside of the map, there’s narrative about not putting an X but it’s there in spirit. Has anyone looked into this with relation to OSIRIS IAI? The big S and the little s.

    • I have considered the “spirit” of the map as maybe being the places you can barely see like Farmington N.M. ,or Billing’s Montana The places you can just barely see.

      • While reading the book, i noticed that some chapters had a red square on the first letter and other didn’t. So, i wrote them down and came up with OSIRIUS IAI. Then, I noticed Fenn used Spirit I think more than once so, I thought he might have used an S instead–relating to Sirius. Then, I found the big S and the little s when I held a flash light to the map. The location matches the first Stanza –at least for me. But, that my opinion.

  46. Let’s have some more fun and talk about the color Red. On the map, some of the important notes are in red. Hmmmm.

    • I once read or heard that Forrest kept a red bandanna on TC before he hid his trove I keep thinking maybe he likes the color maybe his fav.

        • I saw an interview the other day where he was wearing a red bandanna (reminds me of banana:) ) around his neck. I will have to go see if I can find it again…

  47. this is the first time ive read my solve or written it down. it made me think a bout my wwh and its exact location. its a sense of place knowing it is feeling it and this is all you need if its the right one your there. Look around and and look good cause its close.

  48. Sancho, I’ve spent most of the summer searching from the special trout waters (wwh) above Picuris Pueblo down through the Dixon Box. I feel much stronger about this area than any of my many previous searches on the Rio Grande these past three years. I live in Santa Fe so I get up to the area at least twice a week. In all the trips my car was broken into last week for the first time (blm). Local plates with Vietnam disability tag so I kinda thought I was safe. Goes to show yah, but will go out again tomorrow.

    • It sure is a beautiful area, Radcrad. Been roaming the area for over two years and am rather “a regular” these days. There are so many spots up and down the Rio Grand I doubt I will ever see them all. I agree, STW is WWWH and is a particular term for NM. I can finally put an “X” on my map after interpreting “look quickly down”. That is the clue that was not available when FF was a kid. It took me a year and a third interpretation of that clue to settle on what I think matches what I think is the rest of my “solve”. In any case, I enjoy the contentment in the mountains and rivers. It is the “peace” and “loneliness” I have been wanting for a very long time. Santa Fe is nice; I get to shop there once in a while.

    • Radcrad, When your car was broken into, had you left your car parked there overnight? I’m asking because: I wonder if my car might be safe there for just a day hike?

      I’m just trying to weigh all my risks. (My car looks like I’m not rich, and it looks like I don’t own anything of value! hee hee)


    • Sorry to here that your car was broken into. Aremyou parking north or south of 75. If its north of 75 i can have my cousins drive by throughout the day and night. It would be a good excuse for them to drive around the mountains and do some scouting. Usually if were going to spend the night in there well have someone drop us off and pic us up a couple of days later.

  49. Kathryn, Sancho, Michael et al searching this area, I drive a pearlescent beige Explorer with a Lost Dutchman’s Mining Assoc. bumper sticker on the back window. Honk if you see me on the road and we can talk if you’d like.

    • Will keep an eye out. If all goes well, I will be searching soon. My spine, particularly my neck is giving me problems. Luckily, I do not have to look up this time. —it’s look quickly down 🙂 I think I recognize “Lost Dutchmen’s Mine” was that in AZ? I spent many years there but hubbie is from here. We have been in both states reminiscing. The funny thing is that we were in Santa Fe September 2012 trying to get copies of his birth cert and had no idea there was a “thrill” going on! Came back in 2013 and have been roaming since.

    • I don’t see you on the road 🙁 but I wish to talk very soon. Please email me cathmaestra at gmail dot com – Kathryn (now appears as crowfeast).

  50. The pecos River, To Far To Walk, On page 38 in the tftw book, there is a picture of Lucca, Forrest’s granddaughter fishing. Does anyone have an idea of where this fishing spot mite be. I have searched using google earth but just cant seem to find the location.any help will be greatly appreciated.

      • sorry IMO its not the pecos. there are no trails along this river it looks like a very secluded place. The pecos is heavly fished with trails along the bank. looks like walking threw the river is the only way in. or safest.

        • Thank you Sancho,, In the book ,beside the picture Forrest states that his granddaughter is the fisherwoman in the family and that they went fishing at this special spot on the Pecos.

          It looks like a some what wide shalow area of the river . I have followed the pecos with google earth and see places somewhat similar but cant seem to find where i believe the correct spot is that matches the rocks.

          Walking the river may be the only way to find it.
          but i believe it would take too many days to do that when i come back to NM to search so am trying to locate it beforehand .

          • the pecos mountains watersed both to west and to the east of the sangre de cristos.in otherwords the pecos can be fished in more than one stream or river. unless stated pecos river.

        • Sanch, yes he states that it is the Pecos River. Do you have the book To Far To Walk, on page 38 there are 2 pictures of the spot with his granddaughter. The spot looks wide, I dont believe it is a small stream feeding the water shed area, I believe it is the Pecos river , somewhere between the Terrerro area and Pecos NM. I did not search that area when i was there but i believe the river gets wider as it leaves the high wild wilderness area and the water speed looks rather slow.

  51. All,

    I will be Camping out in the Jemez Mountains and doing some searching this weekend 9-4 thru 9-7. If anyone else will be there and want to meet up let me know.


    • Seanm, I was there in June. Beautiful area. Heading to another area second week of Oct. Best Wishes.

  52. here is my interpretation.

    while traveling down a single trail where my hearts at ease , and i can sort my thoughts and views on common grounds.

    i see where tears were shed, on a short trip, a long time ago.
    cause thier faith had to be hid.

    their spirits crying draw me near,
    to a stream where hope was lost,
    and burdens begin
    then slowly trickle down.

    new found knowledge led them not astray,
    they wrote it down, to find there way,
    even by night the path drawn lit.
    follow your hearts their faith proclaimed

    now weary souls have come to rest
    travel no more the spirits shout,
    new lands we did seek,
    but rich like this we did not know.
    so now we weep tears of joy.

    our crys are loud so all can hear,
    be brave and face your fears,,
    follow your hearts to find new lands
    and hid your faith no more.

    sorry couldnt sleep again.hope this still makes sense in the morning .

  53. So I’m not super familiar with rocky mtn weather and i’m seeing a lot of talk about the search season being pretty much over for the year. Is that the case for northern New Mexico as well? My schedule opened up and I could potentially get out there the first week of Nov. Is the weather already too bad? I don’t mind cold its the snow I’m worried about.
    Thanks in advance for any advice!

    • The weather can be so varied at this time of year. My son and I hiked a 14teener on December 2nd a couple of years ago but we can just as easily be dumped on too ! I say early November go for it!

      • to all: we were going to search in late Oct then we decided to wait due to an illness and not sure about funding. while waiting i have been making a chart of all the http sites on the blogs. we start in part one and now we are on part nine with how many more to go only God knows LOl but because of this i was able to refine a piece of our solve. this KNOCKED a HUGE HOLE in our solve that we do not think we can plug. we will still go back just to finish the trip we couldnt but we dont think TC is there any more.

    • springer 42 google the area you want to search and check the weather. for us we didnt think we could search after mid Oct because we had a stream / creek to cross with temps near freezing at night and highs in lower 60’s. burrrrrrrrr!!!!
      you can also call the local town and they will glad to tell you how weather going

    • Thanks all, I’m pretty sure I’m gonna go for it. Just got to find a nice warm cabin or hotel room for the cold nights.

      • Be sure to have a backup place. We have four reservations go south on us that were a headache but worked out. Have fun & be safe. Can u share where u are searching.

        • wildbirder
          I know no one would agree with my solve because everyone thinks their solve is best, but I’m gonna hold off anyway. I will be happy to share all once I’ve searched.
          I will say it’s pretty close to the CO/NM border.
          I think you commented on or around the picture I posted in the hidey space discussion. My solve (IMO) leads right to it and I’m planning to find out what it is.

          • Springer, you, me, Sancho, and Hammer should get together. Have you been out before – or is this your first boots on ground? It would be nice to have a group discussion with like minds – at least on location. I put my email address in a reply to Hammer. It is not as colorful here as it was last year but it is still nice. Tent camping is not a problem in Questa. However, cabins and motels are rather booked because there is a mine cleanup nearby and the workers are keeping that business busy. I suggest reservations. If you need any suggestions, email me.The helpful visitor’s center is closed for the winter. There’s also plenty of fishing! Bring a pole; you never know what you might find – perhaps a 42 pounder!

          • you can also stay in red river some place great some ok. very small fun town. easy short drive to questa and other areas

          • This would be my first search. I’m putting a lot of stock in F’s answer to one of the Six Questions on Mysterious Writings:
            “The person who finds the treasure will have studied the poem over and over, and thought, and analyzed and moved with confidence. Nothing about it will be accidental.” I think you need to be there “bog” to see the final clue, but the rest of the poem leads to a very specific spot, no football field sized search areas involved.
            I would only have a few days next month to look including travel time. Will have to pretty much go straight to my (very small) search spot and then come right back home again.
            Definitely a gamble with weather, very tough call…

          • Springer 42 just watch the roads if they get wet. Go slower speeder can go round dont hit any elk or deer. Take care.

    • Springer, November is too cold. It would be great if you were able to be here at the same time as Hammer. Last year there was an “Indian summer” and the search time was longer. This year, it is colder sooner. However, my first visit (BOG) was November 2 2013. I managed to get to my spot to check out the terrain. It was fine but too cold to do what needed to be done. I think even if you came in November you would have a good experience and gather necessary data to ponder this winter.

      • Last year in mid november the area north of Santa Fe was hit by a blizzard. It was bad. I drove through it on the way up to Colorado. A couple of searchers got stuck in it on 64. A week later the snow and icey roads were still dangerous.
        I recommend visiting Before november. It’s colder this year.

        • It followed an “Indian summer”. I had just left the area the first week of November. It is a lot colder this year – agree – brrrrr. I understand that snow is possible in October in northern NM. It says brave and cold – does not say insane and freezing!

  54. Springer

    Just searched the weather forcast for Questa over the next 10 days. By next Monday, when my daughter and I will be there, it is in the mid 60’s and mid 30’s at night.

    How warm are your boots? We are pushing going this late but my daughter has a week off from school.

    Taking F’s advice. Getting off the couch and cant wait for the phobe to have no service. Campibg all the way.

        • hammer13 if you have to cross a stream or creek double zip bags all items. if item are in a backpack or pocket pressure on bag can cause them to pop open LOL if you are using a walking stick tie a long piece of string to it and a belt loop. we lost three including a special one when we fell. i know water is cold but crossing in tennis shoes and saving boots for other side. we brought felt bottom soles if you don’t have a pair you might try pulling an old pair of socks over shoes. sound silly but might work. even waders will cause you to fall due to slick rocks. oh we looked online and saw most hikers use two walking sticks in creeks or streams. stay dry

    • Hammer13 ……Email me . This is the best time of year to search. Just be respectful of hunters and try not to spook the dear and elk.

      • Hammer 13, Great travels! Questa is nice this time of year. Monday should greet you with warm weather in the day and cooler/cold nights. Sancho, are you and Hammer13 meeting? If you have time, let me know – I’m not that far away. Love to share discussion even though I finished my crow dinner last night 🙂 email cathmaestra at gmail dot com

      • If you are searching the high desert you should be ok as far as snow. It does get cold at night and the sun sets really fast epesially on east facing slopes. If your camping in a tent and it does snow dont panic its like camping in the rain. My wife and i were hunting and a huge storm came in fast and left about eight inches of snow on the ground. Our tent had a ring around it with no snow all we had was a small lantern for heat . A small fire close to the tent will keep it just as warm. Big bomb fires dont do much for keeping warm. As long as your not lost its ok to be out there in the snow. Keep your feet warm and all is good. Wool socks is the best way to keep them warm even if there wet. Dress in layers and avoid heavy coats. If your sweating while walking peel off a layer and as it cools in the evening add a layer. Be safe and good luck.

        • Just read my husband “sancho”s post. You should all know we have been called crazy though. Lol We did survive and were quite comfortable, all in all.

          • True words of wisdom about layers and fire size. 🙂 Not as crazy as roaming the wilderness looking for a small box. You probably had better luck looking for game!

      • The elk are spectacular. Had many cross the 522 a few days ago. They took their time hopping fences and were watched over by the “trophy” near the end of the line. Of course, it was the morning I did not have my camera at the ready!

          • crowfeast love you name you swwot have two fun names. where in NM are you. we are not searching till next fall but if we get to come we would love to met up with you. we would also like to met slurbs and seannnm someday. slurbs name is cute too. we stay up near red river and go to search area from there.

          • well folks now that we canceled hubby time off for our trip because he was going to lose three weeks during the holidays and we were worried about cash flow he has been given a job where it will not be an issue and we will be using less gas Yippee. still don’t think we will go in two weeks but i sure am tempted. LOL

          • wildbirder, near Red River. The fall is the best time of year. Love October because of the colors. Love to meet in the fall. I guess the bunch of us should have been here at the Fennboree – it was just too early in the season.

  55. Managed to work things out and have officially booked a flight to search my spot next weekend! woohoo!
    A friend of mine even decided to come along for the ride.
    NM here we come

    • Springer 42 avoid salt like the plague and drink lots of water. Get some rest first day at alitude. I dont have website to send i am using my phone no computer. But just Google alitude sickness. Have fun be safe find tc.

  56. Very cold nights but wonderfully warm days and that equals a great time. Have fun Springer 42 and if you like let me know when you are there. cathmaestra at gmail dot com I think Hammer is having a fantastic time because I have not heard from him for over a day.

    • Went to northern nm yesterday but didnt get a chance to.search. i did notice there is a good pinon crop this year. If your out searching take a break and pick some fresh pinon.

      • Absolutely! There are vehicles parked everywhere – got some and they are great this year.
        Has anyone heard from Hammer13? Hammer hope you are good and had a good time.

  57. Read the poem in ‘The Week’ magazine.
    First thing came to mind was Taos hot springs and then down the Rio Grande, then up some side canyon.

    • The story that Ted is talking about is a recycle of the story that appeared in Outside Magazine in August. You can find both of the stories posted on the Media Coverage page of this blog.

  58. Just finished my search. Unsuccessful. Heading back to the real world tomorrow. I will share my complete solve in the next few days.

    It was still fun and saw some great sites.

    • Hope to hear from you soon. While the retrieval of the trip may be unsuccessful, the trip let you know the ‘solve’ was not completely successful.

  59. springer 42 glad you have a safe and fun trip. were you any where near north eastern NM and how was the weather?

    • Red River area is cold, freezing cold, and snow. It is not the time to be out in the wilderness. IMO the search for 2015 is over if safety is important 🙂 in north NM.

  60. If anyone is in the red river area the next couple of days, feel free to email me at grubbder at gmail dot com. I don’t get many opportunities to meet other searchers where I am from.

  61. This info is not new, but my vantage point of what they mean has changed to reveal some important events to ff and his Rainbow or even the story of his life.

    In the Thrill book on page 51 is a photo of his father and brother at Skippy’s Graduation and a curious thing also appears inside the circle of the postmark, the #141 is inside it. We all know ff did these postmarks, 19 of which are on even page #s and that particular postmark is the only one on an odd # page, this was no accident.

    Odds of that being an accidental are a million to one.

    I have brought this up before to Dal along with the math involved ie: 141 minus 51 equals 90. Also Olga’s ashes took a 90 mile flight north, along with the Red tea (Mt) Black tea (Mt) Green tea (Mt) which are all on the Philmont Scout Ranch border and Taos Mountain ie Wheeler is clearly visible the top of all those peaks from I know I have been there

    ..Another strange “90” is the depth of the cave in Cozumel Mexico where his brother drowned. In the story of Forrest Fenn’s Legacy, we have 9 clues, 90 miles, or 90 degrees to some how we must fix a point and ultimately 90 and 9 play a role, so to go with confidence to the TC, in his poem the true obscurity or 90 and 9 becomes very important, perhaps the final location has more to do with the way ff intended us to use these references will become clear.

    • Tom,
      As you call them references, I would like to share a bit of what I just now read, …’asides’ fulfill an important narratological function in facilitating an informed reading and preventing the reader from being sidelined because of missing data required for a successful decoding of the narrative.

      So I am apt to look for ‘asides’ from the author of the ‘narrative’, or references designed to aid the decoder. Notice decode is not a dirty word?

      Good luck to you Tom!

    • 141 degrees is the flash point a liquid actually becomes combustible in air and they attach the warning blaze (a orange triangle with a big flame inside) where any liquid is that combusts at that or a lower temp. That’s a class III so it would have 3 digits below triangle start with C or 3 then the sub class of warning. Kind of like the danger limit or a label if I understand it right. Would have been on fuel tanks etc. I think some of the long thinner tanks that run up the right side aircraft are called banana tanks, I assumed that’s why the 141 mark was on right side in book, but that’s just me and I’m wrong a lot.

  62. “9” and a combination of other numbers that equal out to it it; appears to very much play a predominate role in the legend that is Forrest Fenn.

    Nine is a number that proves to be quite interesting when researched.

    My birth number is 9, and it certainly holds ‘true’!

    • Did you know that if you add the letter values of a keyword and the message they equal the code? Using the Jefferson grid sans &.

  63. The Golden Retrievers just returned from our trip, searching in New Mexico for the Treasure. We had a blast! The weather was wonderful. The mountains were beautiful, with just a little bit of snow. We didn’t find the Treasure, but we have lots to think about, and dream about, until next year’s search.

    At the first two trailheads, where we parked our car, we found two pennies – one at each parking spot. My husband said, “We are finding the Treasure one penny at a time.” hee hee, I thought that was funny!

      • Michael, Our team is not ready to disclose our search areas. But I can tell you (in case this helps) our focus is on the poem, AND “why did other searchers get only within 200 feet”. In other words, we are trying to search that last 200 feet – we are trying to BEGIN our search, where others have searched; and then, find the last 200 feet, where others did NOT search. I hope that makes sense.

        Michael, Next summer, we would love for you to meet us in New Mexico, if you want to search with us.

      • Hi Michael, Our team is willing to disclose where we search. So I want to tell you: Embudo Canyon. We are sharing this information, since it’s so pretty there – everyone should visit that beautiful place! We aren’t giving up on searching that canyon – it’s a magical place, in my opinion.

  64. Sometimes it may be best to just walk away…for a little while, anyway. I see not much has changed.

      • Hey there spall. Missed your post until just now. Yeah, I was in nm. Searched around lost alamos. Beautiful up there. I’ve avoided what I think is a hotspot because it seems too spooky to go alone. I know, crazy right? I’ll get up there again at some point though…just enjoying the cooler weather for now and liking forward to deer season with my dad.

  65. Greetings NM searchers, The weather is too cold for searching and rather reasonable for other travel. So, I am off to warmer climates sooner than I planned. The drive is nice thus far and hopefully the weather will be good. Even taking my time, I should be home before the holidays. –Crow

  66. I’m not sure where to post this, but this is a New Mexico solve.

    Fiction or Non fiction? You decide Wink

    I believe this started with Forrests fascination with waterfalls. I believe he flew a direct path from Lindrith to Taos, and it flew directly over the treasure spot. I think he was reliving his days back when he was a pilot in the air force, flying over Laos. I think he saw the spectacular falls hidden at this spot, and just had to go there on foot to experience it himself. I could see him melding his experience in Laos with Taos.

    Forrest hid a picture of him sneaking around in a small group trees in his TTOTC book. He also hid the words Fly Taos in there, which is a small hint that would help someone locate this spot if you flew to and from Taos east/west. I believe this has to begin in Taos because of this.

    Begin it where warm waters halt. I think most people are on the same page with that. Warm waters halt at the 2 springs in Taos, Manby Springs and Black Rock Springs.

    Take it in the canyon down. That speaks for itself. You are told the direction of the canyon because of the line, not far, but too far to walk. That’s in reference of the childrens riddle, why do birds fly south? Because it’s too far to walk.

    Put in below the home of Brown. The home of Brown is a remarkable man named Malcolm Brown, with a very unique home. His home is basically a work of art. This man lived a very similar life to Forrest. A military pilot who turned to art after that career. There was many things great you could say about this man. Certainly a worthy choice for inclusion into the poem. There’s a put in right below his home where the Rio Pueblo puts in to the Rio Grande.

    No place for the meek. The first is in reference to Stephen Meek. A famous trapper/guide. As you know, he expedited a very large party along the Oregon Trail. Then, while in Oregon, he deviated from the known normal path. He should have went North. Instead, he thought he could take a shortcut west. Well, as history shows that was a very dire mistake. West is no place for the Meek party/expedition. So if you draw a straight path east to west, from where you put in below the home of Brown, you come across Ghost Ranch. Another reference to no place for the meek.

    The end is ever drawing nigh. That means your quest will be soon over. It also means the end of the day is coming to an end. The time of the day is important, if you want to see the blaze. If you go too early or late, you will never see the shadow blaze the path for you to follow.

    There is no paddle up your creek. The small creek that runs through Ghost Ranch. If you follow that up, it will lead you on a path in box canyon. The normal path leads through the canyon and then makes an abrupt left to the north. You don’t want to take loop trail at that point. You continue to go east past the huge boulders blocking the way, off the beaten trail. This leads you to the falls. It’s a U shaped falls, with water falling on 3 sides. Heavy loads and water high. Heavy loads is pretty vague in itself, it could mean the gigantic boulders you have to climb up and across to get in this area. High water is self explanatory.

    If you’ve been wise and found the blaze. Chimney Rock is associated with blaze from the word chimney. If you’ve been wise, you’ve come to that area around Chimney Rock around 2:30pm. Also, the time of year is very important for this to happen. You need to go there early November because the sun is setting further south than it would if it were September which would be east to west perfectly. If you go during the summer the sun would be too far north. So as the sun starts to set on that November afternoon, you will see the marvel gaze of watching that shadow from the Chimney Rock blaze the path for you to follow, which will point exactly at the treasure area. You need to look quickly down or you will miss this happening.

    I think there’s a small hint in there with I’ve done it tired, referring to the Carson National Forest. Associating car with tires. The last stanza pretty much describes the end. You’re listening to the wind and waterfalls before you, and it’s very cold in there. If you’re brave and in the wood, that’s telling you to go inside of the small group of trees in there, which seem to be pretty much in the middle. This area has been ravaged recently by a monsoon, back in July. There’s amazing video of a wall of water coming down the arroyo, destroying a lot of Ghost Ranch. It altered the TC location.

    In the Wood I believe is also description from the Herbert Edwin Clarke poem. It pretty much describes the trail and experience going to this area.

    So when I first noticed this spot, the first thing that popped into my head was the pigs head. If you look at google maps, at the very top of the pig/boars head that’s box canyon and the falls. Then I started going through all of the SB posts. Forrest was putting hints in front of everybody. He first talked about abstract art looking at the marble in your shower. He talked about seeing animals in there. Then in another SB post he created a story about pigs and boars. He talked about being smitten with the baby boars because they loved having their tummies rubbed, but in the picture it shows him petting the head. Exactly where the treasure is on the map. And then there’s the jar lid he created which I believe was a bull on it, and the shape looks just like the pig on google maps. They look very similar except for being different animals.
    Also he posted just last month about the equinoxes. He spoke of November, and the different equinoxes. There’s also a post from November 2014. If you zoom into your picture of the phone, it says November 11th. The Perfect time to view the blaze. It also shows a time of around 2:30, perfect time to start watching it unfold. There’s also a hint with the $5 bill. It’s folded right where treasure is, with either a rainbow or waterfall on top. Basically saying that the treasure is under the falls or rainbow created by the falls.

    There’s also the word Teecup if you look at the spelling backwards. I’m pretty sure that is referring to Georgia O’Keeffe who lived at Ghost Ranch, and a dear friend to Forrest. There’s a famous photo of her drinking tea in the Ghost Ranch. I believe the word wilderness also refers to her. 1921 I believe is referring to the date there were nude photos put on display of her, I think it was a pretty big deal at that time. You also see a U in the picture, exactly what the falls look like. He also mentioned heather a couple times relating to golf. Possibly that was related to her because of Heather Hole who was the curator at the Georgia O’Keeffe museum. And in another post he italicized Evironmentalist Friend, I believe at that time he was referring to Georgia O’Keeffe.

    And then there’s the statement he made in a SB post. “Don’t you just hate that? Look at it!!! With all of the copious people wandering by that spot you’d think someone would pause for two seconds”. I see that well traveled loop trail just above the treasure. Many searchers have gone along this trail, but not down into the falls area. It’s seems to be a couple hundred feet from the treasure, right under their nose literally. Over the years Forrest has made so many mentions of trees, like aspens, sage brush, pinon, pines, etc. etc. These are all places within Ghost Ranch. There’s a Ghost Ranch map showing all these places. People are assuming he’s really referring to trees. They’re actually hints to this location. Also the bull skull emblem of Ghost Ranch is plastered all over the place in Forrests pictures. It’s odd how he never speaks of Ghost Ranch, but surely he was a big part of it. There’s many more things leading there…
    I’m also have a suspicion of what the double omega means. Every clue refers to two things. Kind of a check and balances to make sure you’re on the right path.

    So, there’s my solve. Fantasy? Probably. LOL. It was fun making an Indiana Jones type solve. I have no way to get there to check if I’m right, so I thought I’d just throw this out there for fun. Maybe someone is willing to take the adventure out there for me…. Hopefully this isn’t on the same level as a Slicknickel solve, I’m starting to see animals all over the place lol. I know there’s been thousands of I’m 100% right solves, and this is probably just another one.. So take it what it’s worth.


    Here’s a link to an album with the pictures.


    P.S. somebody pointed out to me that a wind tunnel has something to do with the final resting spot.

    • Hello Ken Stearns …

      Interesting solution … area behind Ghost Ranch …

      Tell me …

      Can you see the mountains from the waterfalls area?

      I was doing a search of the various trails at Ghost Ranch. All I found was the Loop Trail, which goes on endlessly. There are other trails, like Chimney Rock, Box Canyon, but I could not find a map of those specific trails.

      In your solution, which specific trail are you referring to? What is the name of the trail?



    • Hey that’s good, like the Chimney Rock timing thing and it as a blaze, have you checked there?

  67. Another possibility of where the final resting place would be a hollowed out log there. I’ve seen some down trees in the photos there.

    • Re: hollowed log

      Picture this: A Tree is cast in a Fendry with great care to have room to spare. From a distant glance every thing seems as it should be. When clues lead you up close to this tree in the forest you will know you have found what you are looking for.

  68. I personally believe it’s in New Mexico for a number of reasons…..but can anyone share thoughts on:

    1. FF has made multiple (perhaps many) “mistakes” in his interviews. Misstating words, facts or clues. A few that come to mind include the 5,000 ft vs 7,000 ft clue, potentially the Pinyon nuts comment, mistakingly saying buried, etc…..Personally, I assume FF to be very intelligent, and the mistakes are honest ones. Thus, I use them without prejudice and consider them wholly in my analysis. Does anyone differ on this opinion and why?

    2. FF’s mistake of saying “pinyon nuts” near his final resting place, which are basically only found in NM and southern CO. Absolutely the most important clue he’s given IMO. At the very least, I would be upset by that comment if I’d been searching MT or WY. Thoughts?

    3. He has stated it’s not near a man made trail…..and then followed that up by saying there are places you should stay on established trails, Yellowstone is one. To me he slipped up (yet again) and has basically ruled that area out. Now, I understand everyone who believes it’s there will say some of those trails were not man made. Personally, I don’t think he makes the distinction between man made and well traveled. The origin of the trail is of less importance than how frequently people traverse it. Additionally, he has said, “When I am in the mountains or in the desert, the last place I want to be is on a trail. Ain’t no adventure in that for me.” He didn’t say “man made trail” he said trail, ANY trail. So I personally don’t think there is a trail anywhere even close to where the TC is. Opinion?

    Thanks in advance for keeping the discussion going!


    • hurdlethief ,
      A lot of what you say makes sense. After five years of interviews a lot of things start to be said that might not have been intentional. It would start to be like a forever Interrogation.

      I was always speculated about the Pinyon Nuts comment myself and it does narrow the search area down dramatically. Also after doing lots of reading about FF it seems that yellowstone was his dads hangout but FF did lots of searching in the New Mexico and arizona areas when he was in the air force and after he was retired.

      That is starting to shift my focus more to the south myself, IMO

      • He’s a spiritual guy… I always thought he would want to stay close to home and family …. maybe on a mountain they can see from their house, or one they ski on, ….a little spiritual connectivity.

        • OS2 –

          I know he’s a spiritual guy – totally agree – but perhaps he placed the chest a little further away from his house – so he wouldn’t be tempted to go back and get it, Ha ! 🙂

      • He said the smell of pine needles or pinyon nuts. The needle part leaves the door open for Ponderosa pine in WY or MT.

    • Charles,

      I’m with you on all the points you made.

      How long have you been working on the hunt? Excellent Post. I thought he said not near a “human” trail – I don’t know maybe I’m wrong. That would indeed leave an animal trail somewhere in the mix. Which in my travels is exactly what I would be looking for.

      Forrest and his family had interests all over – to include CO.

      • Here’s the quote from Mysterious writings………….

        “Generally speaking, there are places where one should stay on established trails; Yellowstone is one. However, it reminds me of the worn-out axiom, “If you ain’t the lead dog, the scenery never changes.” When I am in the mountains or in the desert, the last place I want to be is on a trail. Ain’t no adventure in that for me. There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty to where I hid the treasure.f”


    • I’ll keep my response on this subject sort and simple. Go where the poem takes you. Do not go where the after poem comments and questions take you IMO.

      • Can’t go wrong just using the poem and the book.

        Speaking of the book it states “There are also subtle ‘clues’ sprinkled in the stories.” Pg 133

        Book Jacket Front Flap: “Unlock the ‘clues’ that are scattered among these pages and you can go home with a bronze chest that is so full of gold and precious jewelry that it’s almost too heavy for one person to carry.” (Not unintentional hints but Clues”)

        IMO there are clues that are sprinkled and or scattered among the pages of the book In addition to 9 clues that are in the poem. This information, imo, is rock solid, i.e. More reliable than after the fact statements. I listen to new information and accept that it is true if f says it unless he retracts it that is.

        All imo and if f retracted this information please point me to that information. I do not want to initiate a new volley on this topic so I will not respond to comments arguing against this opinion.

        I am also an arm chair searcher which provides another target for a couple of folks.

        • When reading TTOTC I only found 1 subtle hint, the hint only helped me to understand the poem better, and it didn’t point me to any actual location.

    • Charles, I agree with a lot of this. (1) I think that you should take everything into account. The poem is the key, but the interviews can make a big difference. He’s also in his 80s, seems like a nice guy and genuinely wants to help people out. Mistakes will happen.; (2) This could go either way. The actual mistake could be that he thought that he hid the the treasure where the smell does not exist; (3) I think there are trails somewhat nearby, but you have to get BOTG off trail to actually find it. In that sense, it’s off trail. Hiking off trail in Yellowstone is dangerous but not enough that he wouldn’t hide it there.

      I’m not convinced of any particular state yet and generally don’t buy into the “new” and “old” meaning for New Mexico. It could also easily reference “new” treasures and “old” memories. I also feel that the poem has more spiritual tones and would straight-forwardly identifies physical places in nature. However, the draw to New Mexico is logistics. I’m still not 100% sure if he could get the chest to Yellowstone without it being noticed. The chest isn’t that big, but it weighs a lot. You’re definitely not flying with it. Does anybody know if he drove to Yellowstone in 2010? If not, I don’t believe that it’s up there.

  69. JL,

    Thanks for the reply, I wholly agree with you. Yellowstone, aside from being too obvious, was just where he grew up on vacation. I think it’s special, but I don’t think it’s what “forged” FF as a person or his life. That place is NM, IMO.

    • Not to mention the part about there are subtle clues in the stories of TTOTC if you can find them. Its not hard to find anything about yellowstone, newmexico gets a mention and I cant remember reading anything about colorado except Mesa Verde which is in the four corners area. IMO

  70. Regarding use of the poem and only the poem (and/or the book itself), I think you’d be foolish to not use any and all information available. If FF did not want to give out clues and wanted you to simply and literally JUST use the poem, why does he continue to speak and answer questions today? He could simply go the route of “no comment” when asked about anything relating to the hunt.

    Additionally, I don’t take the man to be a liar or to intentionally deceive anyone by giving false clues or mis-information. Of course that’s my opinion and determining the source of the poem is just as important as determining it’s meaning. What kind of man is FF? He is straight forward, self made, no non-sense. He’s not a dreamer, he’s a do-er. I don’t see a guy like that sitting around for 10 years encrypting a poem with hidden numbers/meanings/coordinates. The clues may or may not have actual signficance to him. My latest thought is this…..if I had a treasure, AND a hiding place pre-assumed, how would I direct people to that treasure? I may simply find interesting or fun landmarks, they may or may not have special meaning to me, maybe they are just more adequate to point you in the right direction.

    Just some thoughts…..and finally, regarding the issue of being confident in your search, to me, that says you know the proper state and are committed to it. For me, I would not dream of searching anywhere outside NM and that’s my confidence so to speak.

    • @ Hurdle

      I agree with you mostly, I caution you in this one point. The imaginary hurdle is the one element that maybe too big for most, even if they can solve the first few clues.Yes it’s true he hid a treasure (more than likely) IMO of course, eye haven’t seen it. I don’t understand why searching near N.M makes anymore sense than searching CO.

      • I agree with you on imagination. I think that’s why Forrest wants children involved. I believe we have to approach this like a child would. Simple thoughts, mixed with imagination. Reminds me of Willy Wonka.

  71. Inthechaseto,

    I’ve been working for about 6 months. I’ve read every post on this website (which took about 2 months)……most of what I’ve been working on has been a compilation of others people’s work. I think A LOT of people have great ideas!!! For SOME of the clues…..and then it’s like they go nuts and Sasquatch left a blaze in Area 51 as the final solve. So I pick and choose what I deem to be very credible/accurate/within my belief system……and I have some of my own ideas as well. I think it’s served me well to this point. Again, I’m about 200 miles away, I won’t go on foot until I have everything but the blaze fully figured out to the best of my knowledge. Additionally, I’m focusing on logic as my primary mode of search. I don’t believe he’s using double meaning or different languages…..just my opinion.


    • Yes, Hurdlethief,

      I think he uses a lot of common sense. The hints are all there – if you can find them and it sounds like you are well on your way. It actually took me two years to put them together – after I knew what I was looking for. So anyone thinking this is a Saturday afternoon picnic is sadly mistaken IMO. Good Luck to you.

  72. He or she, who is looking for the chest will certainly fail for it is not the quarry one should be looking for but the chase. Look for the chase, and it will be there. “It was not curiosity that killed the goose who laid the golden egg, but an insatiable greed that devoured common sense.”
    ― E.A. Bucchianeri, Brushstrokes of a Gadfly

    It is only my opinion. RC.

  73. My final revision…. I’m done. 😉

    I’ll start off by saying that I never read the scrapbooks until AFTER I solved the 9 clues. So they didn’t influence me at all. With the exception of the one last November. I did read that and it threw me off course for awhile. The only thing I took in was direct statements he’s made outside of scrapbooks, and interviews. I also never looked at any google maps until after DG posted that page 99 map. After that I was convinced that was the correct starting point. I never understood why people would look at google maps looking for names etc. You can fit the poem almost anywhere doing that. So, special thanks to DG 

    I think I understand what Forrest was drawing on page 99 of TTOTC. DG found the words Fly Taos in this drawing. Forrest was telling us to Fly to Taos from somewhere, I believe that spot to be Lindrith airpark. Melding his experience in Laos with Taos. He sets off in his bomber, and drops the first bomb, which is his treasure, into the crevice shown in the map. This is a crevice and not a base of a mountain because we see a crack or fissure near this spot. The first bomb points directly at it. There’s an arrow there that shows it to go down in the crevice. From the drawing it looks like there’s a stump also in the crevice and most likely the place where the TC is hidden inside. The second bomb is Forrest himself. It points directly to Taos on the map, the starting point. You see Forrest at this location hidden in the Pueblo Mountains at the start of the journey. So now you have the starting and end point shown on this drawing.. You just don’t know where that ending point is.

    I believe every clue has 2 different meanings. The key to solving it, and the meaning of the double omegas. Starting with the first clue, hint of riches New and Old. That tells you what state to start in, New Mexico.

    And with my treasures bold,
    I can keep my secret where,

    Where are secrets usually whispered? The ear. The final resting spot. A ear on an ear.

    Begin it where warm waters halt. Right there in Taos. The same place we see Forrest starting on page 99 of the TTOTC map. Manby Springs and Black Rock Springs, both close to each other. 2 WWWH, right there in Taos. I think Forrest gave a hint to this with his WW=2 statement, that could be a typo but I don’t think so.

    Take it in the canyon down. That speaks for itself. You are told the direction of the canyon because of the line, not far, but too far to walk. I really don’t believe it’s actually too far to walk literally, to below the home of Brown. That’s in reference of the childrens riddle, why do birds fly south? Because it’s too far to walk. He once said to show this poem to a child. I believe this is important because it tells you to look for possible future n,s,e,w directions in the clues.

    Put in below the home of Brown. The home of Brown is a man named Malcolm Brown, with a very unique home that he built, a work of art. This man lived a very similar life to Forrest. A military pilot who turned to art after that career. There’s a put in right below his home where the Rio Pueblo puts in to the Rio Grande. 2 put ins. Looking at his history he was a very remarkable man, and the fact that I’ve never seen Forrest mention him pretty much made me stick with him for my Brown. I also saw that 4th of July stamp Forrest placed in a scrapbook, possibly referring to the day that this man died.

    No place for the meek. Also 2 meanings. The first is in reference to Stephen Meek. A famous trapper/guide. As you know, he expedited a very large party along the Oregon Trail. Then, while in Oregon, he deviated from the known normal path. He should have went North. Instead, he thought he could take a shortcut west. Well, as history shows that was a very dire mistake. West is no place for the Meek party/expedition. So if you draw a straight path east to west, from where you put in below the home of Brown, you come across Ghost Ranch. That name is self explanatory why it’s no place for the meek.

    The end is ever drawing nigh. Probably my last discovery in this solve. It means the end of the day is coming. Also there’s a fork at the very end of the creek you’re currently on in Ghost Ranch, up above the falls. On the left side it’s called dead end tank, on the right it’s called wild horse tank. End is on the left side of horse, in other words drawn nigh.

    There’ll be no paddle up your creek, just heavy loads and water high. You follow along the creek starting at the trailhead of loop trail. It leads to the north/northwest. You come across heavy loads, gigantic boulders blocking the path, and the falls are beyond that. There is no paddle, meaning don’t continue going up the creek, just keep following loop trail. It takes you to the top overlooking the falls. If you read TTOTC, the Frenchmans grave marker had a profound effect on Forrest. This was also above a falls. Forrest made a deal with the Laos falls that day. I believe he made another one with these falls… Which he paid his debt to. Also, I read a story where Forrest was waiting for a friend, who was flying over the Carson National Forest to meet with him in Taos. His friend never showed, and Forrest later learned that this friend crashed in the Carson National Forest. Another reason why this area could mean a lot to him. I believe it’s the same route they both flew in their planes, directly over this spot.

    If you’ve been wise and found the blaze. We are first told this by the wise men. “We have seen his star in the east”. If you go east from water high at the top of the falls during the afternoon sun, the sun will reflect off the only white rock in that area, to the east. It’s about 2000 feet from the top of the falls. I’ve taken notice of the altitudes from the falls to the rock, and this rock jutting up is clearly above it in elevation. I’d imagine the highly reflective white rock should make it look like a star in the afternoon sun. The blaze marker you need to head to. Look down when you get there, there’s a large opening in the ground. If you notice on google maps, there’s a large crack running right through the middle of this spot. This is the crevice that the treasure is hidden in. The large white rock you see on this map, is the same rock you see in the page 99 drawing, crevice and everything. It’s made to look like a huge mountain, but then you look at the stump drawn on it and that gives the true perspective.

    So hear me all and listen good. The 9th and final clue. This just verifies it’s the right spot. It’s a white ear shaped spot in the forest, with a huge hole in the middle. If you zoom out of the maps it’s sitting directly on the boars ear. Forrest threw hints towards this boar in a few scrapbooks knowing people would have no clue lol. In one picture he’s talking about being smitten with the boars because they let him rub their bellies, but the picture shows him petting its ear. If you zoom out of google maps you’ll see this spot is directly on the pigs ear. Forrest also said to bring a 6 pack of beer to celebrate if you find it. In reference to Cockney slang of pigs ear. I’d also imagine the wind noise would be pretty fierce there too with the shape of the rocks and hole in the middle.

    The last couple of stanzas just provide slight hints. Leave the trove, hiding under leaves in the crevice. In the wood refers also to it being in a stump, in the crevice. Tired referring to the car-son forest. Weak, it’s a decent hike there. From the start of the trail I’d say about 2 miles. There’s also Go In Peace. Which in itself I believe has no meaning, until you reverse it. P I G. Look at the google map of that spot. It’s a pig.

    There’s many hints in the scrapbooks that point to Ghost Ranch. Many of them point to different facets of Georgia O’Keeffe’s life, and different areas around Ghost Ranch. Ghost Ranch is the perfect place to hide a treasure, because that’s the last place anyone would suspect. With all of the history of treasure there, and all of the great movies made there, who would suspect that?


    • Interesting! Is Ghost Ranch currently owned by a church? Sort of private property but sort of open to the public? Thought I read that some place, IMO. Good solve, thanks for sharing!

        • Blazed –

          Quite often there are inholdings within a National Forrest….. that means a specific area that is privately owned – and it’s up to the owner to decide whether or not the public can have access. Sometimes you may be allowed to drive on the road – as it may be an easement – but not allowed off the road. Just a thought…………….

      • No sort of about it… A Church is private property only opened to the public if that is the wishes of the church. I could do the same with my own home, yet it is still private property. I know many churches that lock their doors and even have fencing / gates around them. The major problem with private property in respects to a solve, is the great possibility of change of hands.

        • I don’t think they’d have legal rights to it. From what I understand, this church runs Ghost Ranch, they don’t actually own it. It’s in the Carson National Forest.

    • Such a great solve! What’s really mind boggling is that so many searchers have perfect fitting solutions, yet they don’t find the treasure? ?
      I don’t think even Forrest imagined that his poem could be interpreted in so many ways. Well, on second thought, maybe he did! After it’s all said and done , we really have to admire the man behind the poem! IMO

    • I used to hang out at Malcolm Brown’s house, there were always cute hippy girls tending the big gardens. I helped (mostly watched actually) my good friend build that huge picnic table in the yard. Malcolm was a real trip and his house is a work of art, if you haven’t seen it here are a few pictures:



      • Mark,

        Does the late “Rachel Brown” ring any bells? (I’ve been into a theory which involves her former home for awhile now.) Arroyo Seco


        • SL,

          She was his wife, I don’t remember ever meeting her but if I remember correctly she had a weaving business in Seco but has since passed away.

          • Mark,

            Thanks, There is also someone that links both Rachel & Malcolm Brown to the “Wild West.” (Kinda)


    • “until you reverse it. P I G. Look at the google map of that spot. It’s a pig.”

      Not sure if this has been mentioned but the pig has wings! When pigs fly. Does this tie into to f in anyway?

      • Yeah I saw that too awhile back. I searched everywhere to see if he has ever said that, and never found it.

      • Well, there are plenty of searchers in NM.
        Maybe some will follow your clues. I hope if they find it they will share it with you. That would be the fair thing to do.

  74. Folks, I have made two searches to this area for Blazed…my last trip was this past Saturday morning…it was 29 degrees when Molly and I departed the truck. We hiked to the end of Box Canyon and Ice Falls which dead-ends at 200 ft high cliffs on 3 sides of the canyon…there is absolutely no way out of the canyon to continue on to Blazed’s hiding spot via this route. I sent him pictures…he asked me to try a different way up and around the canyon using the Loop Trail. I explained to him this terrain is way more rugged than a person can tell using Google Earth…it took me one hour to walk from my truck to the end of the Box Canyon, even if you used the Loop Trail, it isn’t easy hiking…it’s rough! And that route is a bit less direct…then you still need to hike across mesa up and down another 2000 feet to reach the pig’s ear….In my opinion (since I’ve actually known ff for 3 years), there is no way he hid the treasure that far from his car across that kind of rugged terrain, making two round-trips in one afternoon! This is just IMO…I admit, Blazed’s solves are good. And I want anyone who reads this to understand that Blazed did not have to talk me into these two searches/trips I did for him. I absolutely loved both hikes…the Ghost Ranch area is breath-taking in the winter with the snow. If he gives me permission, I would love to share my hikes and pictures with you all. But since it’s his search area and solutions, I will not share any info unless he grants me permission. Maybe there’s another way to the Pig’s Ear that we just haven’t found yet….cynthia

    • Thank you Cynthia. I just want to reiterate again how much I appreciated you doing those 2 hikes for me, you’re a beast out there! Well and Molly too 🙂 I saw that path you took to both the top of Kitchen Mesa and then Box canyon, both were not for the faint of heart for sure. I don’t have any problem at all with you posting the pictures, the ones I’ve saw are stunning.


        • Awsome solve. Ghost ranch is a bit far from Taos. And gets alot of tourist. Your interpretation of the clues is mind blowing. All kinds of light bulbs lit up and blew a curcuit. Thank you for sharing. If you have read any of my ramblings apply them to that area and look up pictures of the area and get a map the older the better. Google earth does no justice to the box. Be wise and wait till spring to search this area mid june would be the prime , with fresh days and warmer nights. My map dates 1964 and and states for officiall use only property of carson national forest USFFS. My solve took me above the falls, yours putts me at the falls which is about three fourth ofma mile closer to the highway. Looking at the blaze at a complete 180 which puts you about 40 to 60 yards west of the view of the falls wich in turn makes you the center piece of the blaze look at your shadow cross canyon or down canyon take a picture and turn around wtch the sunnset and try not to have a heartattack cause the dead tree to your left yes the one struck by lightning will be in your windows view. This will all make sense when you see it. Good luck. Almost makes me want to take a road trip this weekend. Iwas on the wrong side off the cerro.

  75. The one nagging thing that bothers me about my solve is that Forrest said searchers have been within 500, 200 feet of it. That would put them at the base of the ear marking. I just can’t see a searcher not investigating a gigantic white rock that is right above them if they are indeed a searcher of the TC. Plus how would they convey to Forrest they were so close to it.

  76. To blazed …

    … interesting solution. And of course you could be correct.

    Before I convey a minor critique, let me say that my impression is that where you think the chest is hidden is not technically at Ghost Ranch … it is in the Carson National Forest … behind Ghost Ranch. But one would still probably have to traverse Ghost Ranch property to get to that big rock. Now for a tiny critique …

    First … I see no “map” on page 99 of TTOTC. What I see is a sketch. I see no “Fly Taos” anywhere in the sketch. Here’s the problem I have with using TTOTC, for “hints”. That book has tons of different topics, and in each topic, there are tons of detail. How exactly is the searcher to know what is a hint and what isn’t? In other words, using the book to find “hints” is a waste of time, imo. Insofar as looking for location hints, the book functions as a gigantic Rorschach inkblot test. We, as searchers, see what we wanna see. We arrive at a preference for where the chest is hidden, then use the book to find confirmation that our preference is correct. In logic, it’s called “confirmation bias”.

    Second …Ghost Ranch is just so obvious a location. Ergo … Ghost Ranch has become the new Yellowstone. I wrote off Yellowstone within a week of when I first learned of this treasure hunt. Both locations would be disappointing to me because neither requires much … imagination … to figure out. Looking at a map of Yellowstone few days ago, I counted no fewer than a hundred place names within that park, tempting searchers with all manner of WWWHs, blazes, homes of Brown, et.al. The same could be said of Ghost Ranch and its geographic connection not just to Taos but also to Santa Fe and to Georgia O’Keefe. For FF to say that we need to use our imagination to find the chest, but then hide it in some well-known tourist spot that requires little or no imagination would be disappointing to me.

    Of course disappointments are a big part of life. And if a searcher happens on to the chest in the Ghost Ranch area, he or she has my congratulations.


    • I don’t mind the critique at all. I want holes to be punched into my theories. God knows I’ve been endlessly trying to debunk all that I can to prove myself wrong. But I don’t think you and most people understand Forrest at all. He’s not going to put the TC where you think he’d put it. It’s not going to be overlooking a beautiful super secret flyfishing spot, with the best view you’ve ever seen. There’s a billion of these places in the rockies. To ME that lacks imagination. This is Forrests sense of humor at play here. Unlike you, I’d be disappointed if it wasn’t here. Not because I’d be wrong, but because this would be a perfect spot to hide it. Who would think he would hide his treasure in an area so rich in treasure history? I read his book months after I started in July, and only after I had solid ideas for what the poem meant. Take a look at the part where he visits the falls in Laos. He was disappointed with the falls when he actually got down to visit it. Yet, it seemed that moment meant more to him than just about anything else in the book. To me that speaks volumes. This wasn’t a deliberate hint thrown it, it’s his life stories. You can understand them or not, it’s up to the readers. So me personally, I wouldn’t be able to understand your disappointment. Think why nobody has found it yet, after all these years. People many times more brilliant than me, you, and most people here. They are thinking about it all wrong.

      And as for deliberate hints in TTOTC, I don’t believe there are any except in the page 99 drawing. He said to read the poem, and then the book, and then the poem, and then the book etc. It’s not because there’s hints hidden all through the book, it’s to understand his mindset, I believe. As far as what’s hidden on page 99 I’ll leave that for another topic if anyone ever wants to post about them. I didn’t make those discoveries, DG made them. On the start of my solve I’m merely giving a description of what I believe Forrest was thinking when he drew it. And that was the last thing I did. I never used that to fit my clues how I wanted them, or vice versa. I just found it interesting when I had it completed that that drawing fit perfectly. And lastly, I still base my solve on just the clues in the poem, nothing more. Everything else is just complelling evidence to me that supports it. Just keep in mind and ask yourself why Forrest was laughing to himself right after he hid it. I think you have to understand his sense of humor. Then again I know I could be wrong. Either way it doesn’t matter, I don’t mind laughing at myself. This is all in fun. I don’t mind being wrong at all, I am most of the time 😉 As far as whether it’s technically Ghost Ranch or not, I don’t know. I know the ranch comprises many thousands of acres. I haven’t seen a map with set bounderies.


  77. blazed-ks,

    I enjoyed reading your enjoyable Solve! I’m however, leaning more towards Ash Mountain (South) NM as a Blaze. It has a natural formation in the shape of an ‘arrowhead.’

    There’s also some areas around the Little Costilla Creek up near Comanche Point that are looking attractive. ( As is your “Ghost Ranch”… it too is within the range of the Sangra de Christo, etc.

    Your “Listen Good” pointing to the “Pig’s Ear” location is much more bolder and prominent than is my simple, whisper like ‘sound’.

    I won’t be initiating any type of ‘boots on the ground’ type solve, and really have a lot of respect for those who have and will,


    My very best,


    • SL, you might want to review A VALLEY VIDAL SOLUTION on OTHER’s ADVENTURES. Maybe has some support info for your search. Good Luck, bring flashlight and water. Old Shadows / OS2

    • at blazed-ks,
      How is it that you arrived at the rock looking like a ‘pigs’ ear? Because it looked like a pigs ear? Or did your solve include a pig in it already? When I look at that formation I see Pegasus a horse as well as a pig.

      • when I arrived there I had no idea I was looking for or at a pig, or any ears, or a rock as the blaze. I just went east like the poem said from water high and saw the only possible blaze. It fit perfect for me because I was figuring a setting sun in my solve since day one.

          • fwiw…or maybe you’ve already learned/read this:

            “Pig’s Ear” as defined in Free Dictionary:

            Something that has been badly or clumsily done; a botched job (esp in the phrase make a pig’s ear of (something).

            Wikipedia Encyclopedia:

            Pig’s ear may refer to:
            Pig’s ear (food)
            Pigs Ear, Pennsylvania
            Cotyledon orbiculata, a flowering succulent plant
            Gomphus clavatus, an edible species of fungus

            Make of it what you will…

          • Thanks for the info on pigs ear wisone. I had never heard a connection to a botched job before. My solve did not have and ear in it, or at least not yet, but it does have a pig in it via an anagram that is not in the poem (so I have not messed with the poem folks)

  78. Thanks OS2,

    I read that and it it was great! (Much more detailed, and Old shadow appears to be really orientated with locations and their descriptions.}

    I’m not even close, yet enjoy the journey. Sill in the NM camp.


    • Mike, you are a most dependable source of spectacular stuff!! I wish I could visit NM and the Rocky Mts and explore all the stuff you bring to my attention. I really appreciate your posts and their clear and informative content. Thanks.

  79. I’m Kind of new here, but I think NM is where to start. I think the first clue is calling that out directly.

    I can keep my secret where,
    And hint of riches new and old.

    It asks the question “where?” and give you a “hint” to the answer…new and old

    as in new and old mexico…pointing to NM.

    If you miss and are in any other state..”you might as well stay home and play Canasta.”

    • I think the second clue is specifically about NM too.

      Begin it where warm waters halt
      And take it in the canyon down,

      Halt – bring or come to an abrupt stop.

      NM Department of Game and Fish define Warm waters…

      Warm waters include all streams, lakes, and ponds

      So, in NM the warm waters come to an abrupt stop at the border of NM, and that is where I think you need to begin.

      Just my opinion.

      • And i think there is only one canyon that goes down (in elevation) from the NM border leaving NM north of Santa Fe in the Rocky Mountains.

        That is where you should “take it in the canyon down”.

        Just my opinion.

  80. My idea on finding a clue in Stanza 1…. Suppose that, “ hints of riches new and old” refers to the treasure objects, as well as the state of NM. A general location clue might be in the contents of the treasure.
    • 20,000 word autobiography
    • Objects too (2) numerous to mention 1×1
    • 17th century Spanish Ring
    • Coat bracelet w/254 rubies, 6 emeralds,2 sapphires, and diamond change.
    • The Wetherell bracelet w/ 22 disk beads (circles & circles)
    • 2000 year old necklace w/ 39 animal fetishes, plus 2 special objects, jaguar
    claw & frog.
    I see lots of circles and numbers. And of course, rainbows are a segment of a circle, as is a crescent, a smile, or an Ω. Maybe your segment of an enchanted circle blazes with spring flowers, summer greens, and autumn golds.
    How subtle is that?

  81. I contacted Ghost Ranch and gave them the complete solve. I would like nothing better than to see them get ahold of the TC to donate to that beautiful place. If they do get hold of it first I asked them to build a nicer trail to this spot, and to return Forrests bracelet. That’s if I’m right. I know I could be way off base here.

  82. I’ve been to the top of cerro del la cruz, it’s a truely magnificent view, but I can tell you there is no chest there.

  83. Nice view huh? You need a good pair of binoculars , Chest is at least 8.5 miles North of Santa Fe. per ff

  84. If Forrest hid his treasure in the afternoon which to this searcher might mean he needed to do some amount of driving prior to and after if he traveled from his home in Santa Fe and back. And/or he may have even stayed overnight in a motel at his destination. So I do concur with others that the treasure lies in Northern NM possibly as far as Cimarron. Just being logical from this Santa Fean’s perspective.

  85. I am still looking for the spot where Eric Sloane painted his picture of the Rio Grande. So, I went up to the Orilla Verde Recreation Area at Pilar, NM. I just wanted to take a picture of the river from the Taos Crossing bridge. That is about all I could do since the area is still too iced over to do any searching.
    Zoom in on the peak, it’s awesome.

    Notice the giant F on the side, made of trees and cliffs… What a BLAZE.

    • Michael, nice pic, you miss the grandeur of this peak when you raft or Kayak down.

      Recently ff had a conversation with Linda B, Randy’s ex wife and she said, I paraphrase: I think I offended Forrest, after he said Randy was way WEST and SOUTH of the Target Area, which was North of SF and East, and she apparently had conferred with someone, an alleged expert, that he was North and West of Santa Fe.

      I see very few NM searchers who have noted this comment and what it may infer, to me it confirms what I have been trying to prove for a long time. Can you hear me?

      It is only 90 miles from Santa Fe to the Colorado border, and it is a fact that
      that ff is always using the # 90 for some reason, in OLGA, ref to Skippy, a Franklin Bill minus a Hamilton is also 90, these are no weird coincidences, they are plain as daylight. Why 90 also why 8.25 miles north of the Santa Fe city limits?

      Michael, is it possible that almost exactly at the place where your picture was taken in Pilar, that the Rio Grande has the start of warm water and cold water halts?

      Name me one other Canyon like the Rio Grande Gorge which flows due South?

      AKA DOWN? No other part of this poem uses a word (noun) that only has one meaning, the word CANYON has only one meaning and it just might be the Key word.

      Long have I believed that Moreno (Brown) was home of Brown but I am beginning to change my thinking that HOB has an obscure definition that ff intended such as “the Cave”, according to legend of many Native American tribes is where man emerged from into the world, see Wiki, also see Coyote the Trickster, the creator.

      If the Rio Grande Gorge was the canyon down and you started at WWWH the end of it will soon draw NIGH or left. Or the creek will draw NIGH.

      Problem is HOB in a nutshell and I can’t seem to crack it. Pun intended.

      Tom T

        • cloudcover,
          I have followed your posts about Cimarron and the Moreno Valley for several years, you are clicking on all cylinders and way ahead of my understanding about the poem, if anyone is understanding the poem better than your solve I will be surprised, because as far as I am concerned, you get this more than anyone else I have read since 2012.

          What we are all struggling to understand is how and what is the HOME of Brown?

          Tom T

          • Love it Tom! 2 things though. There is another Canyon that travels straight South, right? And have you ever thought about what else Canyon Down can mean?

    • Michael: “special waters” begin at that bridge and extend all the way north to the Colorado/New Mexico state line. But I’m sure you are already aware of that.

  86. Tom…

    You said ““the Cave”, according to legend of many Native American tribes is where man emerged from into the world”

    Sipapuni – the location from which man emerged into this world.


    IMO this could align with WWWH.

    I guess that doesn’t help with HOB, I just thought it was interesting.

    • Mr Mike, I am listening and your http://jimmyakin.com/2005/12/found_the_sipap.html

      Seems rather enlightening, especially since the HOPI, Zuni and others have this location in their (radar) as their ancestry place where man may have emerged, or came from onto earth.

      This would fit so many clues in the poem that are baffling searchers, I cannot deny it as (perhaps) the “home of Brown”, since ff surely is aware of it’s position and prominence in Pueblo culture and perhaps “Navajo” tradition, as well, that place where man emerged onto earth from. Those SECRETS which are expressed like that (THIS), if divulged, were enough to have a SHämən ex-communicated or even killed for divulging them, much like the Priests of Ancient Egypt, SECRETS are never to be told without a penalty … https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amenhotep

      My search has me looking in and near the Colorado Border, whether it is North, South of the border is irrelevant, the 64 dollar question is still WHERE IS THE HOME OF BROWN?

      Tom T

      • Hey Tom,

        I too am looking at New Mexico/Colorado border.

        Its funny, I actually came upon that link at the end of my search when the 9 clues led me here.

        “brave and in the wood”

        A small hole in the floor of the kiva (sometimes carved through a plank of wood, sometimes dug into the earth) served as the symbolic place of origin of the tribe; the Hopi word for this element is sípapu.


        Does it sound like I am talking in circles?

  87. Mike, just use your imagination for a moment, what if the the 9 clues were exactly 9 or 10 miles apart, you get the picture?

    I went to Holmans Map company and picked out $45 dollars worth of Northern NM Maps and while they are not perhaps the “MAP”, they do show things that Google Earth does not, like the exact boundary for Philmont Scout Ranch. I was shocked at where it extends. A great deal of the Old Maxwell Land Grant, does anyone remember the statement ff made in “Thrill” about Captain Kidd and Gardiners Island, see Wiki of Gardiners Island, coincidence, no, also who goes to Philmont? Why would ff or for that matter his father be concerned about those young people who go there?

    A few years ago Moonshots Film Productions an Emmy awarded company and they filmed my treasure hunter group for 11 hours, we took them across the Gorge Bridge and through Angelfire to the Moreno Valley. However Animal Planet who had sponsored their pilot effort here decided to film some gold diggers in Alaska instead.

    When they were here they said ff told them that his father would know where he hid the TC but this word never got out and I have on occasion mentioned it.

    If your elderly father came to visit Northern NM where would you take him too? ff’s father passed after Skippy, I don’t recall the exact date, but for sure he ended his life at home in Temple with a method that ff may have planned for himself in 1988/89 when he too believe the end was drawing nigh.

    So the $64 question is what was a place perhaps near and dear to ff and his father? Yes, they loved Yellowstone, but that may not have been practical for a man with cancer like his father in time when he was terminally ill and also for ff in 1988/89 so if you look for a place to retire, and you choose NM and not MT or Wy what is an alternative? Obviously, the Yellowstone of NM! That’s the Ticket!

    Only problem to work out then is how to take it with you, right? He planned it all right up to the final detail, that is except for the fact he got well. Perhaps he reconsidered and decided to go in peace later on and something tells me that he prayed that cancer would Touch Him Not, and so far so good, he is beating the odds each day since Social Security say on average the life for me he has greatly exceeded, and is still sharp as a tack, defined as a sharp, broad headed nail, and speaking of broad head, Old Baldy, Red, Black and Greenie are all there at the entrance to the Yellowstone of NM. Which, by the way is exactly 90 road miles NE of Santa Fe.

    Tom T

    • All interesting stuff to think about.

      One thing you said…
      “His father would know where he hid the TC”

      Do you think that why he say that two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead?

      • Precisely, my dear Watson.

        Skippy passed shortly after ff and family move to SF so who else would you find close enough in your life to share a Suicide Pact with?

  88. I always thought the other person who knew the secret was Eric Sloane, but it might make more sense that it was his father.

  89. Mr Mike I got “his father would know where he hid it” from the film crew of Moonshots, who were commissioned by Animal Planet…

    Tom T

    • Lower elevations 5000′ to 6500′ may be clear except for the north slopes of mountains, temps in the daytime are mild however the wind can come up in afternoons so do a weather report like this hourly one by Zip Code:


      click on the wind and if the sun shines and wind is below 10 mph, you can ski in the morning and play golf in shorts in the PM. We are sometimes called “The Land of FREEZING SUNBURNS and of course ENCHANTMENT”.

      During the early part of the war in Afghanistan news agencies all compared New Mexico to where our soldiers were fighting, description of the terrain and weather are quite similar, several films are made here each year, some mountainous areas will be a ringer for Afgan conditions.

      My son, Retired Captain,Helicopter (UH 60) pilot, spent two tours there and he was born and raised here in NM and says it is pretty similar to Northern NM.

      Tom T

    • Sorry promtbr88, my comment on Weather in NM is above your question, gotta love not payin attention.

      Tom T

  90. Horrible wind occurring in New Mexico as I speak…plus a cold front is rolling through northern NM tomorrow with a high in low 50s in SF forecast for tomorrow. FYI in case anyone is planning to search here in the next few days.

  91. Ok Cynthia, it is time that you and I stop talkin about the weather, and since it is too windy to hunt I think I will soon be takin a train ride and visit my favorite memorial plaque…

    After all it requires bravery, a flashlight, and I know for sure it is in the WOOD.

    Now if I could just confirm the home of Brown, it is after all the deepest canyon down in our state.

    Tom T

    PS After you tired me out on the excursion lookin for Randy, I could use a nice gentle train trip.

  92. Lugnutz, I realize that we usually call the Caja of the Rio Grande a GORGE, not a canyon and there are three other well known (shorter) smaller canyons down (southerly) one is the Brazos the another one is the Chama, finally the Toltec, the deepest is debated, but when you stand at the Garfield Memorial and drop a rock over the side it is hard to believe but it falls straight down some 500′ and you are not near the top of the rim above, which is some 650 feet above you. Now that is an impressive canyon.

    What canyon do you suggest?

    Tom T

  93. I started to comment last nigh and so now I will introduce myself. I chose Lugnutz so that when I get interviewed Mo Rocca will say I am joined by Lugnutz Goofy Desertphile and Dal Neitzel (IT’s German!)

    I have written Dal and Frosty a few times. I want to share a few ideas about why I will search NM. (oops Bro you didn’t see that but if you aren’t careful you can type MN or even WN instead of NM)

    Forest is quoted as saying a good map could be helpful. He didn’t write that, the listener wrote that. He might have meant Goode Map.

    Tom T you have read the New Mexico fishing regs about warm water vs trout water. Um, the fishing regulations for the other states do not mention warm water

    So I am new to the chase (NTTC) and I will be NM over memorial day weekend. As I get closer to my trip I will be sharing more ideas some of which are nutz! Those nutz ideas will just show different ways of thinking.

    Let me tell you all that I have not enjoyed reading anything like this blog since I first picked up Joyce! We are creating our own adventures writing our own books. The authors here are fascinating people full of fantastic ideas and the chase brings me great pleasure, thank you.

    Lugnutz out

    • Lugnutz, just to confirm that Chama is likely in the mix here, know that ff has repeated the number 90 multiple times in the book many times and it seems to be a bit of Simon says IMO ?

      It is exactly 90 miles NW of Santa Fe to Chama, NM and it is also exactly 90 miles to the border near Antonito Co. Now that could be mere coincidence, but the odds of that are sorta like the postmarks in his Thrill book, which are 19 of them are posted on the left side of pages, even #’s in the book and only one is on page 51, and odd # so the # he circled inside the postmark was 141_ Main St and who is on that page? Now I was a business major in College and did 2 years of statistical analysis, the odds odd of that happening are a million to one or greater, so Simple Simon Math tells me that 141 minus the page # 51 equals 90 once again.

      Olga ashes were flown 90 miles, his brother Skippy tragically drowned in 90′ of water in a cave in Cozumel Island Mexico.

      Now I do not think there is a multitude of hints in his book, but that 90 is math I can work with.

      My problem is putting an X on the exact spot, I feel certain about the definition of WWWH and Game and Fish is the only place I have seen my exact definition, Canyon (down) IMO must mean south, cause all, all canyons go down, one def for Canyon, two for down, It is only logical that these are the clues the little girl from India could solve and I am embarrassed to state I had those in 2012, but until this comment by Randy Bilyeu’s ex did not convince me of a word and direction of which I am now in tight focus, my main problem is putting in below HOB, unless put in means a trail and not a Canyon/River or Creek I am lost at that point.

      So do your research Lugnutz on what she heard from ff, it is a revelation.

      Tom T

    • PS If you are brave and in the wood, is also something I think I have found, in old western magazines and comics I have seen that as the home of the brave, ie dead and in the wood, meaning in a PINE BOX.

      If only I could find somewhere a TC “Pining” to be found, you know languishing, drooping, I’ve done it tired and now I am weak?

      Tom T

      • Tom when I say Chama I am referring to the river, or sight of the river to be specific. To my way of thinking the Put In is either the spot where people put in, or it’s the instruction to do so. There is an official Put In on the Chama and there is also a place where I would put in, 2 different places.

        Only one of the 2 has something that I identify as HOB. I would put in below that spot. Problem with this main solve is that it relies on my opinion as to whether one might be allowed to deviate from the line of the poem. Specifically might one come upon the Blaze and yet subsequently “find” it?

        I do not follow your reference to Randy’s Ex.

        • coordinates for a rock shelter where can wait it out whilst the rescue party looks for you

          36.454299° -106.702182°

          • Hey that’s a nice offer butvibam not going anywhere a 79 year old man carrying 20 or 30 pounds of gold couldn’t walk in about an hour

          • Hey 9 clues, the longitude ur using does not exist, could you re examine the 106.7??? is it 106.___ or 107.___

            Tom T

  94. Lugnutz, for the definition of “Several Hours” by ff: see Moby Dickens interview Taos, he says don’t look for a place an 80 year old who parked his car could not make two trips to the spot in several hours. More than a couple, less than many, ha ha!

    People have been within 200′ perhaps a highway or hiking trail?

    Tom T

  95. Tom –

    There and back twice in several hours. So less than an hour in and out twice plus a sandwich break?

    • At a minimum, 4 hours total, probably more than that, after all most people walk at 2 to 4miles see


      ff is probably at his stature and condition, not on the slow side in his gait, even at 79 yrs, so depending on the up hill or down degree of difficulty/footing and how long it took him to disguise and stash the TC in it’s hidey spot, he uses “hidden”, not necessarily buried, but most likely camouflaged either naturally or by his hand.

      He said it took several hours for this operation, probably left in a somewhat protected position from some elements like erosion etc.

      Now several is one of those terms like “too far to walk” or ask me “how deep is a hole”, ff loves playing, even creating these kind of terms, so most likely within 6 hours but more than 3 to 4 now does that sound like Fenn speak? Capiche? Comprende?

      The amazing thing that no searchers ask him is do we need to translate the locations for clues into English? So if anyone gets the chance, ask him that question…?

      Tom T

  96. Another reason to appreciate the healing wonders that are New Mexico:

    Pueblo insurrection and their many flights from Span-ish oppressors throughout the 1600s. In short, thelush pastures of El Prado sustain more than just cat-tle. They also speak to a long and vibrant history of Jicarilla paramilitary strength (Eiselt 2006). Anyone who has had the misfortune of finding them-selves at Embudo Station during the torrential sum-mer monsoons that dislodge large boulders, carryingpeople and equipment to the bottom of the gorge, will appreciate this next story of the galloping rock.Powered from the inside by a magnificent pair of black and white rams, the killer stone lived at Pilarand rolled all over the land, crushing and terrorizingits people. After four vain attempts, Killer-of-the-Enemies manages to head off the rolling rock andshoot it in the spine. Splitting in half with a thun-derous clap, the rock releases the two rams. In oneversion, Killer-of-the-Enemies shoots the giant rams with white flint and obsidian tipped arrows and in an-other they are told to retreat to the mountains. Thekiller rock still lies where it was shot in the RioGrande. The Jicarilla still visit it today; only now they share the space with mostly non-Native kayakers, fish-erman, and sunbathers who are unaware of its healingpowers. Powder and shavings from the rock can heal wounds and illnesses and protect military servicemenand veterans of war (see also Opler 1938:73).
    After vanquishing numerous other monsters, Killer-of-the-Enemies travels to the Taos area to counsel the Ji-carilla one last time and provide them with one finalgift before leaving to live with his father the sun. Heremade the northern Río Grande in the form of hismother, White Shell Woman, locating her heart at theEl Prado Marsh where he previously had killed themonster frog (Goddard 1911:206; Opler 1938:43).The four sacred rivers, each representing the genderedhalves of her body, flowed from her heart to form theRío Grande, the Canadian, the Arkansas, and thePecos
    Water from two of them, one male and one fe-male, is obtained and mixed together for the Long-lifeCeremony of newborn children. White Shell Woman’s heart also is the focal point of the first Bear Dance ceremony. The heart is located where the first fires for the ceremony stood. Opler(1938:43) records that these fires flared up at the marshon two different occasions following the ceremony.During the first time, theTaos Indians were powerlessto stop it. They dug ditches and filled them with water,but the water burned like oil. Finally they called uponan old Apache man and woman to put it out. The sec-ond time it burned, it was brought under control by the spirit of an old Apache man who had recently died. Jicarilla prophesy states that the El Prado marsh willburn two more times and on the fourth time it willburn all over the world (Opler 1938:113).
    The protector spirits of the Jicarilla reside within thebody of White Shell Woman. Roughly equivalent toPueblo
    , the
    are the formal personifi-cations of the power of objects and of natural forces.There is a
    of every animal, bird, substance, ornatural phenomenon that you might encounter nearTaos, and the Jicarilla are able to call on these naturalforces for protection and assistance in times of need.Principal
    reside in the mountains surroundingthe valley where they were placed by Killer-of-the-Enemies. These areas are marked with rock shrinesthat can still be seen today. Other important shrinesin the Taos area are shared with Pueblo people. LikeTaos, the Jicarilla obtained ochre from the Blue Lakearea and considered Hopewell Lake nearTres Piedrasa holy place of emergence. Red clay was obtainednear Questa and was used by the runners in their an-nual relay races (Opler 1944).Micaceous clay shrines also figure prominently in the Jicarilla landscape. This clay was so important to Ji-carilla women that it was embodied by its own
    spirit. Pottery making was a mainstay of the Jicarilla economy throughout most of the historicalperiod and women relied upon it to generate incomefor the family. Commenting on Jicarilla pottery mak-ing in 1865, Father Antonio José Martinez of Taosstated that the Jicarilla had always lived between the

    * If posted incorrectly, I will attempt to correct the above by using another method. (The “healing rocks/ military servicemen and veterans of the war connection prompted me to think of the Flyer.)


    • I think you might be refering to the pueblos surrounding the Jicarrita mountian which is always confused with the Jicarilla Apaches. The Apaces used to raid the pueblos in northern new mexico. The Jicarilla pueblo is about 200 miles south of taos. The northern new mexico natives were known as a peaceful
      People with great skills in architecture , the fireing of micicous clays, basket weaving, and an ancient knowledge of irrigation. And were feared by many cause of there exceptional hunting skills which were useful in fighting there enemy and the taking of scalps to scare others from attacing. The mountains between Taos and Pecos are known as the sacred mountains. And the jicarita was also known as baldy mountain which is also mistaken for mount baldy north of taos pueblo. When the spaniards visited the northern pueblos Picuris pueblo was dicovered in a hidden valley and was the bigeet of all the tribes in new mexico with a population of over 3000 , and a language of there. own but yet simular to all the sourounding pueblos . Picuris peak is spoken of as taos mountain by the Picuri people. The spaniards were amazed a tribe that large and sufisticated had gone undiscovered for,centuries. Their only conclusion was passage to the hidden valley was limited and dificult if not impossible .

  97. pdenver. I’m glad that you like it! ( Rocks are a subject that really interest me .)


  98. SL I remember a time when this and many native legends, were forbidden to repeat or even “WHISPER” perhaps it is not important what they say, but what they whisper.

    Tom T

    • The question(s) here then would be, How would one …they..if forbidden, speak of legends without saying anything? How does an unspoken whisper of a legend live for centuries? And how would a future generation know of a unspoken of legend or listen to or hear a whisper of said legend?

      Imo this is part of the poem that ends in “hear me all and listen good”

      • Sancho, when speaking of the secrets we “WHISPER”, as a tribal member who carries a CDIB card and one very proud of my native heritage, when using the word whisper above, it means we are suppose repeat legends to tribal people (only) and never share those SECRETS with anyone else.

        Now as SL has shown above two or more have a hard time keeping a secret, ff has stated many times, two can keep a secret if one of them is dead, and that person is undoubtedly his father, William Marvin Fenn, I have explained that statement on this blog many times and it is true, ff will not deny it.

        With that secret of ff and his father’s special place, IMO, it is a unique and beautiful, even an UNFORGETTABLE place, not in Yellowstone, but in NM.

        I have searched almost 30 times for the TC, at several NM mountain locales north of Santa Fe,

        The Rocky Mountains are huge, but early on in the search, we heard the term somewhere in the mountains north of SF and it is hard for me to wrap my mind around the entire RM chain, even if ff said there are many places WWWH in the RM’s, so I try to keep it simple, even limiting my search to canyons and their respective (tributaries) creeks that run mostly South, the ones that have (yes) the B word, “Brown Trout” and limit it to those rivers that NM Game and fish tell us have a place where WWWH and cold water regulations begin.

        Imagine the Rio Grande, AKA Rio Bravo (Mexico) at an exact place on our famous river, well known to fishermen, where you can no longer can catch Browns, since they must have cold waters to exist. I can assure you that above, north, it is “no place for the meek”, but a fantastic “Brown” habitat. ff, being an avid fisherman would know that spot and many other places WWWH on the various tributary rivers and creeks in northern NM. Not HOT but are we getting WARM?

        Tom T

        • Tom-
          You wrote:
          “…and that person is undoubtedly his father, William Marvin Fenn, I have explained that statement on this blog many times and it is true, ff will not deny it.”

          Because Forrest doesn’t deny something does not make it true. Forrest does not confirm or deny hundreds of ideas folks have tossed at him. That does not make them true.

          Ordinarily I would throw out your comment for saying that something is true…when there is no evidence that it is..but I am going to let it stand for now…along with my comment.

          In my opinion Forrest could have been speaking about his Brother Skippy, His friend Donnie Joe, His friend Eric Sloane or anyone in particular or no single person at all.

          You cannot put words in Forrest’s mouth and expect to remain unedited on this blog..Please remember that in the future.

          To avoid censure for spreading rumor all you have to do is let us know that these ideas are your opinion and not fact…

          That way readers will not be fooled into believing something you have stated is unequivocally true…rather than just your opinion.

          • Dal,

            Did Goofy give you his set of keys? I thought there had to be a two person rule when handling the nuke button, or was this a preemptive strike.

            Haha JK, have a good weekend Dal, lay off us NM peeps and stay up in the Gallatin peeing behind some tree.

          • Dal, I seem to remember, somewhere, that I read F had said, (paraphrasing), ” If my father were alive, he’d know where I hid the treasure.” ?
            I’m currently searching my notes to confirm this, but can’t go fast enough!
            It was in one of his book interviews, I think, but just not sure.

          • Donna, lets just call this hear say and since I got it second hand, from what I considered a reliable source, It was not spoken to me.

            So Dal is correct, that comment came from me and should be called second hand info of dubious distinction.

            Sorry for stating it that way but I had earlier explained, that it was second hand knowlege or knowledge.

            So take it off the RADAR, OK.

            Tom T

          • PS As I stated several years ago, the Animal Planet film crew Eric and Dave of http://www.Moonshots film Productions Company, an Emmy award winning video and film group told a group of 5 searchers this comment in November of 2013.

            That is why it is second hand knowledge and if I get nuked for saying it, it was what I heard them speak, I have 4 other witnesses.

            Tom T

      • A

        One method of communication without words might involve:

        Pictures* (Rock/Stone)
        Smoke signals – (To increase the range of the smoke signals; mica or copper would often be used to reflect the glow of the fire).

        *Of other interest…as shown below during one Spring “Inipi” ceremony in 1983, IMO…is nothing short of a miracle:



        • The Rio Chama or Chama river and for that matter the town and peak of the same name garner attention here because the name comes from the Portuguese meaning The Blaze. So Tom and I among others think that Chama figures in somewhere. The word has also been used colloquially by Mexicans and others to refer to the smoke rising from a fire. Like this:

          “Look for the Chama and come straight for us about a mile down the canyon.”

        • SL

          thats what i meant in my comment. A whisper can be monument, writing or drawings on a cave wall….etc. A trail can be blazed just as subtle as a whisper. the same way Mr. Fenn whispers us hints in this blog, for example when he tells us about osiris, and his friend that studies the sun, the equinox, you get it. these are all huge hints that seem to be ignored or at most short lived. The biggest hint imo is the scrapbook on seeing faces or objects on his bathroom tile. THATS HUGE. The man is 86 years old he could write stories of just about anything and ramble on and on and on, but he doesnt his story are short and straight to the point with pictures to help us visualize. these pictures in the stories are his memories and he is telling us what to look for when were out searching thats why imagination is more important or greater than knowlege. Imo we have over thought the poem and turned it into a few jigsaw puzzles with no picture.
          eventually it would get solved but not likekly if the pieces are being twisted amd reshaped. thats whats happened with the chase and all the blogs . all the pieces are there but thery are bing forced to fit . if it doesnt fall in place on its own then its the wrong one. and if it happens the two pieces fit The book TTOTH and his scrapbooks tell you which is right. And as for the theory on brown trout not beeing able to survive in warm waters is false. Brown trout have been caught in the rio grande as far south as bernallio. and as late as mid july. It is the rainbow trout that have a low chance of surviveing in warmer waters. also if you begin WWWH ……..then Put in Below the HOB you would just bounce back and forth to and from . imo thats the wrong piece of the puzzle.

          • Sancho, I am so happy to see you posting here again. I have been looking at your earlier posts and think that you have the best understanding of Picuris, NM.
            I am going to ask a favor.
            Would you please write up your solve and send it with some pictures to DAL?

            IMO you have a great story to tell.

          • Sancho and Michael, Sancho, Can you postphone disclosing detailed information and pictures about your solve, until after the Fennboree? If Sancho posts his solve, I’m worried that lots of searchers might go to that spot. I believe I’ve been to that search area; & each time, I was the only person I saw. I love that that place is not too busy with people. (There is a lot of trash/litter; but every time I go, I make progress cleaning up the trash.)

            Sancho and Michael, Will you be at the Fennboree? If I serve you a breakfast or dinner at the Fennboree, would you meet with my team for a discussion of this search area? In other words: Can I bribe you with food? to listen to me talk about the things I have found in this search area; and to share your ideas with us?

        • SL thank you for sharing that. Now I am very curious to know about the Looking Horse family. I have family on Pine Ridge and one of the neighbors (a dear friend of mine) is Kelly Looking Horse. I am eager to know if this is his family the author is referring to. They are a well known family on the rez and have been part of many ceremonies between natives and non-natives in terms of blessing new grounds such as the buffalo drop in Windsor, CO and Denver International Airport. They also have many pieces of art featured in the museum of the Native American in Washington, D.C.
          I can’t wait to email him and ask him. Again, thanks for this link.

  99. Sancho,

    As you appear to relate; I give thanks and am glad you are here. I believe we see many of the same ‘things’


  100. Sancho, my definition of WWWH on the Rio is not my own, the biologists of NM Game and fish for many years have written up regulations for fishing and these places are called in their exact words on NM fisheries, at certain spots , “Where Warm Waters (regulations) Halt”, and cold water (regs) begin.

    I have caught Brown and Rainbows below Elephant Butte Dam spill way and I get what you are saying about Browns being as far south as Bernalillo, but my point is the frame of reference ff may be using, so if you are an avid fisherman and follow the game and fish rules that spot is north of Espanola and Velarde. Embudo Station bridge was the marker at one time, I do not know if it still is. The same is true on the Chama, Cimarron, Gila etc.

    One point we might all agree on is the Rio Grande Gorge, perhaps being “no place for the meek”, and when I use to Kayak, raft and fish the Rio, from Red River Hatchery to Pilar, and that is a good way to describe power line, the rock garden and north of Embudo Station Bridge.

    My Brother in law was a NM game and fish biologist at the Red River Hatchery, and no they have never raised Brown Trout there, only Rainbow Trout.

    Tom T

  101. On the way up to Picuris along 75 there is a little pull out on the hill. Just off to the sourth side of the road there is a flag pole with tattered flags and a small memorial to POWs. I got out to have a look and walk around just a little. The place is steep and rocky. I looked down over the edge into Embudo canyon. The stream was low, and there was a narrow dirt road barely wider than a path. It twisted and snaked its way down to the canyon. There is no way I would take my car down that road, even if I knew how to get to it. But I could see that it was no place for the meek. It was an interesting view from the memorial.

    • That sounds like an interesting spot. I believe I know where you’re talking about. Next time I’m in that area, I’ll look over the edge into the canyon at that turn-off. When I hike into that canyon, I turn-off 75 (and park my car) a little further East of that flag pole.

      • Sancho,

        Great to have you back – I wanted to ask if you’ve been to the town of Dixon a long your way to THE Boulder? Some interesting history; I found the story of “Collins Dixon” interesting. He was its *first school teacher and also a Postmaster.


        • Dixon has the best apples in the nation. My sister lives there close to the river. before they changed the name to dixon it was called embudo. The embudo box is one of new mexicos best fishing spots for record sized browns. During the spawning season the trout can only travel up the canyon a couple of miles where there are deep pools of water and the canyon walls are steep and keep the water cool. With lots of vegitation on its banks this an ideal place for trout to make there home. then after embudo you have Apodaca. Canada de apodaca is the the original low road to Taos. The road along the Rio Grande did not exist until the late 1800s, and was considered Mal pais -=badlands-no place for the meek? on highway 75 you can turn east in dixon and take the back road to highway 76 through Ell Valle Pass which runs along side the embudo box. Does this sound familiar? it should . Take the chest and go in peace. This translates Toma ell pecho y valle en pass. And a valley pass is also called a ford. The Battle of ell valle pass was a brutal and bloody battle with no survivors there are lots of unmarked graves in this area of the soldiers whp lost there lives in battle many of which were french. n

        • Its nice to be back lots of new intesesting writings. Its been a bad year for me and my family. Shortly after my accident while i was trying to get together with a few searchers both my son and my daughter had a bad accident my son broke his femur and my daughter broke both her hands,some ribs,elbow , and internal bleeding. Both were air lifted to the hospital, and spent a couple of weeks there. They are doing really good and back to normal activites. I pray we never have to spend the night in ahospital again but that is highly unlikely considering how active we are as a family. This is why i disapeared for awhile and i apologige for making plans with some of you and not following threw. Im still not 100 percent healed but close enough . So this makes it the third year year the chase has eluded me which makes me rethink what my family in northen NM tell me. ” The chest is not for us to find”. Im still curious though and i don’t give up so easy. The weather has cooled off enough to safely search that area again. The only dis advantage is that we missed the spring solstice which i believe palys a major part in finding the blaze. I dont think the summer solstice is the right time to acurately fallow the blaze . Ive tried it once but itbtakes you to far down the canyon i believe its no further down than half ways. So three months difference in the suns angle brings you way off course. Maybe the fall solstice is the same as springs l guess ill have to wait to see and pray were able to stay healthy enough to check.

    • That road has been closed for years itis part of the comino real. The memorial is in candada de piedra lumbre (fire rock canyon). I would personally stay out of the canyon below the memorial due to mining claims in the area. On 75 about a mile or two before the memorial and about w mile past the embudo creek bridge right after the cemety two the right south about halfways up the cerro there is a giant bolder I ( penasco… heavy loads) that looks like the head of an owl. If you collect arrowheads youll find the biggest arrowhead youve ever seen at the bottom righthand corner of the rock. Lol oh and watch for rattle snakes .

      • Sancho,

        Thoughts and prayers to you and yours. May you shine and grasp….the sun.

        Keep the Faith, my friend,


  102. Be careful everyone looking in northern New Mexico. The rattlesnakes are out in full force, saw 3 today.

  103. Glad to see you back, Sancho. Have a safe and fun year. I may be in NM this summer but will miss the mark for Fennboree. I will be elsewhere in June. Hope all have a good time.

  104. While doing a google earth scan of Ghost Ranch and Plaza Blanca I noticed some interesting ruins Northwest of Plaza Blanca and Dar Al Islam.

    If you happen to be in the area, it may be something to see.
    Take the road that goes behind Dar Al Islam.

  105. How interesting Mike… sure wish I were able and had a horse. would be fun to explore. Is That reservation land?

    • No, it isn’t reservation land. It is way up on the hill above Georgia O’Keefs home and gallery in Abiquiu. Looking at the landscape from above itisinteresting to see little stone circles and the remains of dwellings on the hill tops. Were they native Amerrican? Were they old Spanish ranches? It would be nice to explore. It is probably on a list of archeology sites.

      • Do you have any idea of what the two nautilus structures are at 36° 14’ 32.33, &, 106° 18’ 41.22?

        When the Chase first started I learned the curious structures at 36° 53’ 13.06 N, and, 104° 28’ 43.88 W, were old coke ovens. My GE identified the near-by canyon mouth then as Gardiner Canyon, Colfax County. But now it doesn’t… if I plug in that name, it drops me somewhere near Alice Lake. So I don’t know what the correct name of that canyon by the ovens is. I plan to haunt northern NM when I’ve passed, and visit all the curious sites, maybe there will be banquets.

  106. Historical info for northern NM:



    Has anyone put together a solution including the Red Bandana Mine? I realize ff said it’s not in a mine. Perhaps including Angel Fire/Enchanted Circle route – including Baldy Mt (Elizabeth Mountain) E-Town ghost town and finishing in Santa Fe closer to Forrest’s home. Depending upon interpretation, 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe could be 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe County line or oldest historical boundaries.

  107. FF received 16 Air Medals (pg 99).

    The Air Medal was designed in 1942 by sculptor Walter K. Hancock, one of the original Monument Men (loosely portrayed by John Goodman in the 2014 movie.) I think Mr. Fenn, the warrior, sculptor, art dealer might have known, or knew about, Mr. Hancock.

    A powerful work of Mr. Hancocks is the 39’ tall, narrow, bronze war memorial titled Angel of the Resurrection (1950-52) which stands in Philadelphia’s 30th St. RR station. Inscribed on its black granite base are the names of 1307 PRR employees who died in WWII. This magnificent piece portrays two figures, Michael the Archangel gently lifting a dead soldier up out of the flames of war.

    Does that remind anyone of a place north of Santa Fe?

    If you are interested in such things, be sure and read the 1977 interview; I think Mr. Fenn may have back in the day. It’s a lot about education, and curiously, the intervewer’s name is Brown: http://www.aaa.si.edu/collections/interviews/oral-history-interview-walker-hancock-13287

    Off topic: Interesting to me was how gender prevented his mother from her educational goal… like my own denied admission to the architecture program at college because “engineering was mans work”. I wound up taking the ‘life’ courses (nudes) that she was denied. Sometimes my memory can have a long attention span too. (pg 106) Glass ceilings, harrumph!

    • Very interesting post OS2. Maybe this gives some credence to the possibility there’s a tie-in to ff putting his thumb over Philly. Not that the TC is there mind you, but that Philly references may indeed hold hints. I had discounted that premise previously. Maybe @cluesfromphilly has been onto something.

      During the late ’90’s, I had several clients/architectural projects in downtown Philly, which required many a commute from DC into the 30th St. station and right past Hancock’s statue. It always gave me goosebumps, conjuring up my grandfather’s WWI experience. He lost a leg fighting in Belleau Wood, France (two amps, no ether). He had just turned 19.

      My grandfather was a great admirer of the sculptor St. Gaudens and had 2 small bronze studies of his. Apparently, Hancock also was. St. G designed the 1907 high bas-relief double eagle coin. Sound familiar? He also cast The Adam’s Memorial in DC (a/k/a/ “Grief”). Of this, a replica was made called “Black Aggie”. Aggies are types of marbles.

      I probably should’ve rambled on about this over on the Nine Clues page. Sorry.

      • Aggies…. hmmm. On the nines #65, you said marbles, I said Texas A&M, we are in sync! What I am noticing is that the big flashy stories (Philadelphia, Waterfall, etc.) get analyzed and discarded. But the hints may be in the more mundane paragraphs before or after them…. thats why I began looking at the medals. In the past I had looked at that Viet Nam Cross of Gallantry. It turned out to be a circle & cross design like the NM flag symbol, or that coin pushed under an old womans’ grave stone (assuming a cross shaped stone). That Fenn guy is good!

        But, I have some pretty good connective tissue for Yellowstone too. Hope I live long enough to see this solved.

        • P.s…. that’s quit a coincidence about your passing that statue, (I think Omar Bradley did the dedication in 1952. And a painful sorrow for your grandfather. No words can heal war scars.

      • Ahh here it is….

        “The first double eagle was minted in 1849, coinciding with the California Gold Rush. In that year, the mint produced two pieces in proof. The first resides in the Smithsonian Institution in Washington, D.C. The second was presented to Treasury Secretary William M. Meredith and was later sold as part of his estate—the present location of this coin remains unknown.”

        Now all I can imagine is a box full of double eagle saint gaudens! I actually have one! It’s a replica 🙂 But it’s still pretty cool looking…:)

        • Did you notice there was also at least 2 Canadian “Elizabeth II” coins. 99%pure gold and only 1500 ever minted.

  108. One of my first solves included the Enchanted Circle, I did so much research to find out about the hatcheries and the Red River and thought maybe going clockwise in the circle, or maybe Questa or maybe not. Taos, Cimarron Campground, Gold Hill, June’s campground,. Mete’s and bounds. I felt like my mind was the only thing going in circles. BOTG three times in areas like these. New Mexico is a beautiful but exhausting place for a seacher. IMO

  109. I recently scouted the area below Picuris Pueblo between Dixon and Penasco to find access to Embudo canyon. The east entrance is near the west road into Picuris. There is a short trail at the base of the ridge bordering the private property that leads to the canyon entrance. Kayakers may put in (HOB) near where the Rio Pueblo crosses 75.
    36°11’52.80″N 105°44’7.52″W

    Then I drove down 75 to Dixon. My intention was to scout access to the west end of the canyon where the kayakers pull out. At Dixon I took cr0068 (69?) as far as the narrow paved road would take me to the canyon. It crossed a narrow bridge, turned right, and ended at somebodies farm. This farm is sitting at the access to the west end of the canyon. Rather than trespass on their property I turned around and got back to the main road. My impression was that you can’t get there from here. Unless you were a really good Kayaker. 80 year old FF did NOT go there via plunging over roaring rapids. Do NOT Do That !
    36°10’42.67″N 105°49’32.70″W

    After that I went back to the main road and turned east. It was now a good hard packed dirt road. It goes up out of the desert area and down into some beautiful hidden valley farming communities of Canyoncito and Vallecito, to Ojo Sarco. It exits there on 76 across from a pink house..If you hapen to be on the high road to Taos, take a detour down this road from Ojo Sarco to Dixon. Even though it is dirt it is safe and well traveled by locals.

    This is a very beautiful area with a variety of ecosystems from desert to valley farms to forests and high mountains. One thing that amused me is that the area near Dixon at the west end of the canyon is called Montecito. There is also a river east of Penasco called Santa Barbara. Since I grew up in Southern California in cities of the same name I had to take interest.

    My next adventure will be to go up the Santa Barbara to a place that looks like it is a picnic area. From Penasco go east to Rodarte. From there follow the road up into the mountain to what looks like a good parking lot and picnic area, (on Google Earth).
    36° 5’20.31″N 105°36’38.31″W

    Has anybody been to the Santa Barbara river and the picnic area?

      • The santa barbara river runs straight threw my dads property and the campground is about 2miles away. Further up the river is another campground called Hodges . Best place to go fishing in new mexico imo. If you look up Sanchez road in Rodarte nm this would be where i grew up last house at the end of the road.

          • Michael,

            Are you planning on coming to Fennboree? We would love to see you there. You can even bring your mom, if you like. The group shelter is really easy to access, and even has wheelchair accessible restrooms.

          • Sacha, I just spoke to my Mother, she is available to come with me. We might bring the great grand kid also. He’s 4 years old and a hoot. Both of them are much better conversationalists and company than I am. As for the treasure box for the hunt, do you still need one? Where and when can I deliver it to you?

          • We are going on a road trip to the four corners area and up to durango on the 28th. Everyone voted on going zip lining in durango . I was out voted 4 to one. Which i dont mind at all cause we get to fish the san juan on the way up there. If all goes well and God willing we should should be in the taos area around the 1st of the june. Hopefully we can stop and search the embudo box on the way home. It should be a quick search that day. There are three areas within short distance of each other where i believe the blaze shows you to go . The pictures i have of the blaze were taken on the summer solstice at end of june but im starting to think the spring solstice is the one that points in the direction of the chest. Either way this is a blaze and it does point to something specific and it was made by man and it was made to last for centuries. Was it made by FF? I dont think it was. I also have a video of the blaze which im willing to share along with some interesting pictures that are surprisingly simular to the ones posted in this blogs scrapbook section.

            If i remember correctly someone tried to bribe me with food to get us to go to the fennboree. My wife says you can always bribe us with food and i agree. We will try our best to make it and yes i will bring the video and the pictures. If all goes well on our search and we find the chest ill bring that as well.

          • Sancho, I’m the person who tried to bribe you with food to come to the Fennboree. I hope to see you there. Have you seen the pictographs/petroglyphs in the Embudo Canyon? I’d like to talk with you about that.

        • Hey Sancho,

          I have been reading your posts for a couple of years now. You have a lot of interesting things to say, and you seem to have some really great insights about Northern New Mexico.

          Are you going to be able to come up for the day, for Fennboree? Many of us would love a chance to shake your hand and chat about the chase.

  110. I went for a drive with my Mother Saturday. We went up the high road to Taos (76) to Penasco. We then turned right and followed the road until it intersected with 73. From there we headed east to Santa Barbara Road, and took it all the way to the Santa Barbara Campground.
    This place is gorgeous. A lush green forest below the mountain, with a river running through it. The river was running very quickly from recent rains and snow melting.
    Though the gate was closed until next week, there was a lot of people camping just outside the gate where ever they could find a space. I parked closest to the restroom and strolled aroud the immediate area near the river. My body wasn’t cooperating with me, so I just admired the view from there. I could feel the vibe, the energy of this spot, the roaring river. I chose a small slope where I could lay down and take it in. This is a special place. Not THEE special place. but it would be a shame not to go and camp there.
    From there we went back the direction we came just a little ways to another camping area called Hodges. First I went down the short entrance nearest to Santa Barbara. I took the trail down about a hundred yards. I was was trying to find a short trail down to the river where there was what looked like a beaver dam forming a pond and slowing down the flow of the river. But the thicket of willows was too dense. Then we went to Hodges Road and drove down to the main camping sites. It’s a primitive camping area but a good place to fish. Across some side roads to the south there were some fields where some people had parked their trailers and spread out as if they had laid claim to the entire area. Good for them. The roads in Hodges are sketchy in parts but if I could do it, it’s easy enough.
    From there we drove backsouth on 76. Along the way I happened to see a sign that said El Valle. I was wondering if there was a campground beneath the mountain. At first it looked like any other forest road. Then we passed by a cemetary that was all dressed up for memorial day. We wondered who was living out here also. Then we found out that there was a beautiful hidden valley with a farm community that was having a meeting in the church at that time. There was a big lilac bush next to the road that we had to stop and admire. We wondered why the lilacs were such a dark purple at these elevations and lighter at lower elevation. My mother told me to reach out the car window as we drove by and grab some. They smelled extra good stolen.
    We headed back to 76 and went down to Truchas. I usually just pass through but today I had to explore the area. We turned east a headed through the community towards the mountain. It was much bigger than I thought and much more developed than I remembered. Truchas has been ‘discovered’. Who are all these people? What do they do for a living? How can they afford these homes? Is this still New Mexico? Or is it a suburb of California? When I got to the new Baptist church I turned around. There was a educated professor type walking along the road with his little dog. I asked him what was at the end of the road. It goes up to a trail head, that’s it. The area foliage was right. Sage, Juniper, pinion, and other pine, and a great view of Truchas mountain. Maybe I’ll check it some other time.
    Now I decided to head back to Chimayo and treat my mother to lunch at the resturante de Chimayo. along the way we went through local communities like Cordova just to see. In all we saw a beautiful day.

  111. Hi Michael and Sancho- I always enjoy your posts. You both have a very comprehensive knowledge of New Mexico. I camped a few miles below the Santa Barbara campground in a primitive site a few weeks ago – no one was around and it was lovely. I’m actively searching in the general area; I’m sure you know this but Vadito means ford…Miss Ford? And of course Sipapu, Las Mochas, The Camino Real etc. all pique my interest but after 4 trips I’m at a loss and almost but not quite ready to move on. I live in Durango but search in New Mexico – beautiful landscapes. Thank you both for your comments and ideas. Wish I could be at Fennborree to meet you both but alas am working that weekend. Sandy

    • SandyB, the area off the highroad to Taos seems special and promising. I recall a place called Cuestocito somewhere up there. It sounds like “quest to cease”. Maybe I will double check that next time.

      • I finally found where I saw Questocito.
        It is west of Ojo Sarco off the northside of the road.
        Take the high road to Taos 76, take the road west at Ojo Sarco 69…there is a house with a large beautiful Lilac bush across from the turn off. Take the road to the west end of the valley. Beyond that is a more desert like terrain.
        Look around. The foliage is right, the view is right, it is near Embudo canyon, it is a short drive but too far to walk. I am not sure of the other clues.

        • La Cuestacita isn’t really a town or community. It’s private property. I went down there once and spoke with a nice older gentleman there. He was friendly but adamant that this wasn’t a town. I only saw what looked like one farm/ranch like place with a maybe two houses on it. Cuestacita does sound like quest to cease.

          • Although not used in this sense very often I don’t think, Cuesta could mean Quest. I think in this name it means hill like cerro. Cita could mean appointment or meeting as in destination. Quest’s destination.

  112. Michael, We love much of the same spots. Last year I did a recon back the forest road through El Valle to the end of the road. There are a few campgrounds and at least two trails to lakes high in the Truchas Peaks at the end. I hiked along the Trampas (Trap) Creek for a half hour, just to see if it was something ff could have done. It was pretty but I never had a warm fuzzy feeling for the area so never went back to do a thorough search. Have you checked out the Tres Ritos area just east of Sipapu on rt518? It is another good area for treasure hunting, imo.

    • Aside from the clues in the poem I also look for sage, juniper, pine, a view of mountains and desert. Tres Ritos seems to be forested with pine. But it’s not near desert like environment. Right now I focus on the western slope of the mountains near the Rio Grande. But there are great areas on the east side IMO

  113. My vote for NM is because the number nine in Spanish is nueva, same word different gender as Nuevo Mexico.
    I’m giving it 50/50 with another line near the bottom of the poem

  114. Today I went out to my little spot above the confluence of the Rio Grande and Rio Pueblo de Taos, near Pilar NM. I noticed that the area had gotten more traffic since my last visit. People were leaving rocks stacked around on boulders to mark their trail down to the river. At one spot there was a flat rock with lots of little colorful rocks put on it. I have no idea why. Maybe it was an offering.
    Over near the path down to the Rio Pueblo was one such cairn. But next to it was something of huge significance. A petroglyph with a curious design:

    As for me I became dehydrated quickly and had to leave in less than an hour.
    I also went by the rock with the boombox radio petroglyph. The boulder that had the white rock on top no long had a rock on it, so I put a new one there.

  115. Cynthia, I have an area that might interest you, if you’d like to hear about it then Dal has my email and can pass it to you. Alopes

  116. Don’t give up New Mexicans…
    I am debating with myself, I’m so eager to burst with something… but no, I won’t tell yet or I might have to kill you all…. but keep looking in NM.

  117. Here’s a sentence/description from a Wiki article on Philmont geography & ecology… it’s not meaningful for my current solve, but it might be to someone wondering who “I” might be in the poem … “The boundary between the central and northern sections is around U.S. Route 64, which runs just south of the narrowest part of the ‘I’-shape, which is only a few miles across.”

    • haha, did you see the school bottle cap story further down on that page, over a million collected and stored in a basement…

    • Ironically, Hell’s Canyon mentioned in that article is very near the Dog Head Wildfire burning since Tuesday am (as yet 0% contained, over 16,700 acres burned).

  118. We couldnt stop laughing when he was talkin. It was englis spanish and some foreign language all mixxed togeter kind of like my typing. Lol

  119. hi folks we have been taking a break from blog and getting stuff done around home etc. we think we are going to search our area in late Sept or Oct. we were going to skip this year but that bug is hard to resist lol.

    • Hello mnelsonm25. Nice to see you back on the screen. Will you be searching the same area you searched last year? Hope all goes well.

      • yes we will search in N. Nm i some how didnt notice my name was not what it should be sorry for any confuse and thanks Dal for helping me fix this.
        While planning our next trip we notice warning about NM monsoon season. We think there may be a link to what time of year Mr. Fenn hide the TC.
        We found a PDF Doc. http://www.oldsantafetradingco.com/assets/book-previews/thrill-of-the-chase.pdf that states when the book will be released in Oct of 2010. We think the TC was put in place by or before this date. Which makes sense that the TC would have to be hidden by time the book came out.
        “New Mexico and other areas across the Southwest U.S. are affected by the North American Monsoon System (NAMS) every summer, and the “Monsoon Season” is designated as the period lasting from June 15th through September 30th.” From the site http://www.srh.noaa.gov/abq/?n=prepawaremonsoonhome
        We believe if the TC was hide in NM then Mr. Fenn hide it after the monsoon season which ties into the poem about it being worth the cold because crossing a creek at this time of yr would be cold.
        If he hide it in Nm we think he would be concerned about monsoon season because of the flash flooding and because of the lightening in the storms. Before we married hubby spend the night in a tent in Cimarron Canyon. He said it was very unnerving and was glad to have at least a tent to hide in. He said someone wouldn’t want to be in a canyon in the mountain during a storm

        • Hello wildbirder. It is definitely a good idea to try and plan accordingly. Last year, Mother Nature won in the area I search and I couldn’t go any further. I wish you the best of luck in your journey. Have fun along the way.

        • Hello wildbirder. I cannot give out my specifics because other people are there searching, too. I’ve seen evidence. Last year, I searched in the summer.

          • Correction. Last year, I tried to search in the summer, but Mother Nature had a mind of her own. The monsoon season is pretty active once more in Colorado.

          • thank you we are planning a trip late sept early oct trying to miss the monsoon season. we dont mind the cold or getting wet but the less the better lol
            we are working on cutting down on salt and planning meals that are low on salt. a couple of salty food killed my last yr

  120. My nephew is creating videos from our trip to Fennboree. Here’s a link to one of these videos. This video shows us searching in New Mexico, in the Embudo Canyon. This video probably won’t help you find the chest, since more time is spent throwing rocks and hiding car keys from each other – than discussing clues & hints. Anyway, there’s some pretty video from NM, great video of the pancakes from the Fennboree breakfast, a very short clip of Wisconsin Mike’s syrup, and a short view of one of Iron Will’s pies. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx8ZN0cYVjY

    • Hello Golden Retrievers. Enjoyed the video. I never knew one could taste the nectar from an Indian Paintbrush plant. I knew about Honeysuckle and it does taste sweet. Shhh…I won’t tell where you hide your spare keys. 😉

      Hope you and your family share more beautiful memories. Good luck in the search.

      • pdenver, Regarding the keys: You’re very smart & very observant. Since you figured out where we hide our spare keys – I’m sure you can find a treasure chest!

        • Hello Golden Retrievers. No, not smart. There are so many smarter than me that have a better chance to finding the chest. You are one of them.

  121. Today I drove ten hours to eat a cheese burger at the St. James Hotel
    in Cimarron, New Mexico. Compliments to the chef.

    I was out on a day trip with my mother. It was good to get out to the mountains north of Santa Fe. And, It’s been a year since I last visited the area of Cimarron.
    It is the busy season there now. With tourist crowding everycamp ground, lake, stream, and mountain village.
    People are off the couch, and their devices are stored away…(no reception)

    As for me, after my mother and I finished lunch, we drove up to the Chase Ranch. It’s on road 204, eastt of Cimarron. My mother asked why. I told her because the TITLE of the book is ‘The Thrill of the Chase’. And the poem says “I give you TITLE to the gold”. Get it, mom? “Ooooh”, she said. “That’s a good one”.
    But, I just went a few miles up to the main house and turned around. I didn’t want to get in the way of any boy scouts up there at Philmont.
    I got a real good vibe from that place. Everything fits.

    • Hello Michael Hendrickson. Sounds like you and your mom and a great time today. Hope you’re able to go back soon and check it out, especially having good vibes. Remember, there may be some behind you, or others may be ahead. Have fun and be safe.

    • Yes. I peruse his site often; it is invaluable. If you like waterfalls or have a waterfall as a clue or hint in your solve. I have used his website directions to find many obscure waterfalls, and I’m going to email him one I found recently that he doesn’t know about very soon!

  122. Hi folk this is off topic but I checked with Mr. Dal first. I like talking or typing. I would like to from friendships off the blog where a fee of us stay in touch. If anyone is chatty and want to visit by email please email me. wildbirderntex at gmail. Com. We share ideas and daily events. We discuss TC but anything discussed should be shared if it is important.

  123. I’ve been pondering a solve that would have some basic things in common, and I think that I have an idea.
    First, it must be one of those early solves that somebody likely emailed to FF.
    Second, it will have a place where they took a wrong turn and went right by the chest.
    Third, it must be so simple that people will wonder why they didn’t think of it.
    Fourth, someplace easy that FF could get to in an afternoon.
    Fifth, there may be two ways to get there.

    Here’s what I have so far:
    A short drive but too far too walk, Where warm waters halt, the canyon down, put in below the home of Brown, and no paddle up your creek all refer you to the same place.
    Namely Big Tesuque creek and the Big Tesuque trail. The home of Brown being Bishops Lodge.

    Using Google Earth and search, here is what I have found;
    Borrego/ Bear Wallow Trail

    Tesuque Creek at Winsor Trail and Bear Wallow Trail 182

    35°45’38.22″N 105°50’44.30″W
    Elevation 8217


    White Boulder on Tesuque Creek a Blaze?
    35°45’11.66″N 105°51’26.46″W

    If you use the Google Earth street level there is a black dog that you can follow all the way down the Big Tesuque trail.

    Outside of the poem what drew me to this solve was pictures of Tesuque the dog in a creek in the scrap book. And, the picture with a bear in the water as FF hat levitated in the air…bear wallow.

    There is two ways to get there, either from the bottom at the Big Tesuque trail head. Or, above Hyde Memorial State Park at the Borrego trailhead 150. The Borrego trail is a loop. For those that were looking for a circle it fits. I also found an interesting white boulder that hinted of being a blaze.I did NOT find heavy loads and water high. That and the rest of it will require boots on the ground. Good luck with that.

    I shall call this the “Slap Me on the Forehead Solution”

    • I may have found the Heavy Loads Water High. it could refer to
      Glacial Moraine. Where past glaciers had pushed about boulders and carved up the landscape. This is a feature that exists around the Santa Fe area including Tesuque Creek. But, it is even more pronounced along the nearby Rio En Medio. Here is a site discibing it and how it is accessed from the Winsor Trail:


      For those that believe “Me in the Middle” is a hint, En Medio means the middle. and there is a little waterfall there.


      I’ve learned alot today, and I hope you enjoyed what I have shared. Good night.

      • Michael – great insights! Thank you for sharing. I have studied this area using the Nat’l Geo Santa Fe map and haven’t come up with a solid WWWH…which is generally my starting point. Care to share your thoughts on WWWH in relation to Big Tesuque? Thanks.

          • Thanks Michael…I don’t think it would be the Santa Fe River because where that confluence occurs would not be 8+ miles north of Santa Fe. But looking at the topo, there are several confluence points along the Big T that would work. I like your Bear Wallow idea!

      • Looks/sounds/feels about right Michael and so simple too! You sure know the area, best of luck to you and your mom.

    • Michael, your number two states;
      “Second, it will have a place where they took a wrong turn and went right by the chest.”

      I want to really disagree with this… I can’t too much because we just don’t know… However, would it be more reasonable that, instead of all those searcher making the same exact mistake, that they all got the next step incorrect?

      “I cannot tell you how many searchers have identified the first clue correctly, but certainly more than several. I cannot imagine anyone finding the treasure without first identifying the starting point, although many seem to be preoccupied with later clues. To me that’s just expensive folly. f”

      Is Identified the “first two clues” the same as “Identifying the starting point?”

      “Dear Forrest,
      Now that the 2014 search season has ended, can you summarize the results? Ie: is anyone close to the treasure chest? Has anyone given you a solve? Thanks, puttputt.
      I know of a few searchers who have been reasonably close to the treasure puttputt, but there is no indication that they knew it. No one has given me the correct solve past the first two clues.f ”

      “No one has given me the correct solve past the first two clues” Wrong turns or wrong interpretation? of the next clue.

      While this last Q&A is date 2014, and since then fenn said; some may have 3 or 4 clues… but he’s not sure… The real question is why the heck are we so stupid we can see what is in-front of are face when on site? ALL those searcher didn’t know they had the first two clues. Is it more likely, they had there clues process [ stomping out one to the next ] wrong?
      Now where back to what is the first clue[s]? WWH doesn’t seem to be working well. Because if on site at wwwh and take it in the canyon down be the first two clues… and walked past the other seven clues and the chest. It only makes sense their clues are out of order.

      • Imo in the canyon down may not mean go down into the canyon from wwwh. Because you may then take no paddle UP YOUR CREEK. But with this solve you can start at the bottom or the top or midway. Once the main starting point was found more options were available. I Think that my latitude mark is correct, if you have a latitude that is more precise to 8.25 miles please tell me. Imo that may just be the line beyond which is the chest, but not necessarily all of the clues. I’ll double check on that.

  124. Question, I cannot locate this but know I read something about “many people walked pass the TC” or something like that. Does anyone recall anything similar or what was meant or inferred?

    • NT … at top of blog, click on “Cheat Sheet”, then scroll down to “Subjective Information”.

      Ken (in Texas)

    • Native Texan, There are more than a few comments made by fenn on the subject. Most of which were in the form of Q&A’s… have a look at Mysterious Writings [ located at the bottom of the page ].

  125. Hi all. I’m going to give an abbreviated version of my 6 failed attempts for a single solve and see if anyone else wants to pursue some of my ideas. Start at Sipapu NM (umbilical, warm amniotic water, place of emergence). Follow canyon down, more warm water/cold water based on NM fishing regs. Continue canyon down – put in below the home of Brown…past Las Mochas, Picuris Pueblo. Picuris = mountain warrior people (no place for the meek), Pi, etc. My place of interest is the Embudo Box. The Embudo just below the BORDER of the Pueblo (remember Borders and the salesclerk with the braids) is the confluence of the Santa Barbara, Rio Lucio, Rio Pueblo, and Rio Chamizal (many other creeks confluence in the Box). I’ve found 3 separate entrances to the Embudo Box (get back in the box he says!) – the Harding Mine (hint of riches new and old), Chamisal (the Chamisa!) from the Vallecitos road, and another entrance a few miles east of Dixon NM. The one I think FF could have gone into with a heavy pack and a sedan is from the Harding Mine. That particular section of the township is #34, and is state land. Geographical features include Cerro de la Rana (frog), Cerro Alto (halt)…and so much more. Get out your Spanish dictionaries! It’s all downhill from where you park your sedan near the mine entrance. ALAS!! I have not been able to locate a blaze. At the Chamizal entrance to the box I found a huge JF blaze on a big old ponderosa pine tree. Got my juices going for sure. But alas, nothing but spectacular scenery, waterfalls, a remote and fantastical canyon, and a few brown trout on the line. Good luck, happy trails! I need to move on from this solve and hope this is closure for me and help for someone else. SB # 56 and #107 crucial to my solve. If anyone has the window idea going, you can make it fit here.

  126. I forgot to mention the reason for starting at Sipapu….sipping tea with Olga. Sipapu along direct flight line from Santa Fe to spreading Olga’s ashes on top of Taos Mountain. The chamisa! SB #107..Mr Puceet (tea cup). Forrest’s interest in Native American mythology. Sipapu is the place of emergence…place of birth…warm water. You can make your own connections from here. Just down the road from Sipapu is Las Mochas, then warm water halts according to NM fishing regs. Use your $5 bill on the map…pen and cap points to Telephone Canyon and Picuris Peak. I have hiked miles of trail and driven miles of rough road in that area. No Blaze…but maybe you can find one.

        • Back to the comments on the embudo box. HOB Picuris. To far to walk …Camino Real..WWWH…Rio Grande…the canyon down…..southern most canyon of the Rio grande WWWH called La Junta..east past dixon to canada piedra lumbre .. Thiw canyon is also known by the locals to have lots of turquoise in its gravels as kids we used to sift through it and pick out the turquoise. The blaze IMO is a combination of monuments and windows on top of the cerros which channel the sun. This window i speak of is on top of cerro de la Cruz. Gun sights is what i call them. I didnt put any of this in order but i hope it helps..

          • Hi folks we planned a trip in early oct to our search area. Well hubby will be having triple bypass surgery probability tomorrow. Wednesday the latest. Next yr here we come.

  127. SL… you are referencing the Brown turquoise claim in Cerrillos? Hmmm. Weren’t we just talking about this on Jenny Kile’s FB page? Good find. I like going in circles. And thru windows.

    • Hi SL & SandyB. Here’s a tidbit you may not know of: The best turquoise mines in the Cerrillos Hills were at one time owned by Tiffany & Co. The distinctive color of their blue boxes matched their “gem quality” turquoise.

      If you ever get the chance to visit the Cerrillos HIlls, keep a sharp eye out for turquoise pieces scattered about on the ground. I highly recommend the experience from the back of a horse.

  128. SandyB,

    I am not a Facebook member so can’t relate to Jenny’s page.

    Some Cerrillos examples of what I’ve found:

    Outrageous Fortune was filmed there.
    The ‘Nine” lives of Elfego BACA filmed there.
    Waldo street
    The early”Little Pittsburg” baseball team.


    Madrid, NM and the “Weeping Lady” story, (Was made into a children’s book).


    Circles are quite good. Actually, have you explored New Mexico’s symbol,the ZIA?

    Spiritual, Very.


  129. Jenny Kile posts “Weekly Words from Forrest Fenn” in combination with a Featured Question on her FB page on Fridays. On July 26th, Cerrillos turquoise was part of the discussion. Nice additional finds re: Cerrillos. Thank you! La Llorona…yes I am familiar with the tale. I know people who say they have seen her. But not I!

    • finally somebody sees it the way i do. Lol…i thought maybe i wqs all alone.

      Sandy i responded to your email and left a number where you can reach me at.

      • No you are not all alone, NM has many fine places with a rich history to explore. I agree Jenny does a wonderful job , always so positive and informative. Glad to see you posting Pancho.

      • Sancho! So great to hear from you. And, you are definitely not alone. So great to hear from you…I was hoping you followed this thread. I did not recieve your info. Will you please try again with this email address and I’ll include my phone #? Anyone else interested also welcome to contact me. sbolyard9@hotmail.com

  130. SandyB,

    Yes. I’ve read and posted on the Jenny Kile MW Site and appreciate her work. Haven’t read her FB.

    Madrid, NM also has a lot of informative history.


    • I think Jenny’s postings appear in multiple places; I just access from FB since it’s the fastest way for me to search. Thanks for all the info you are sharing – to paraphrase a quote I heard the other day: “alone we go faster, together we go farther.”

  131. When I am looking for a blaze, I keep my eyes open for something very like a ZIA, or a spiral, or other circular etching/pictograph etc. Perhaps a horseshoe or omega symbol. Hopefully white…Thanks for sending the links.

  132. I have searched in Montana, Wyoming and New Mexico. I keep leaning toward New Mexico because of the first stanza of the poem.
    As I=Me
    With my treasure bold=x
    I can keep=i
    my treasure where=co (as in care of)
    riches new and old=New

  133. All,

    For those that are interested, I posted a short search story in the Chama Canyon over a site i will not mention.

    “Adventures in the Land of Enchantment”


  134. Sancho, his family and I had a mini “Fennborree” near the Embudo area this weekend. What a blast and so very enlightening to “see” the landscape from this mans’ eyes. From the eyes of a person who knows this land deeply, from an ancient lineage. The land is majestic and awe inspiring. I must say, there were more vehicles at the Harding Mine entrance than I’ve ever seen before. At least one, if not more were searchers. Hundredth monkey? Our ideas all coming together as one? And I am embarrassed to say I’ve parked there myself a ridiculous number of times…each time I come home empty handed but richer in experience. I am putting on the finishing touches to my Embudo thesis before submitting for review for a PhD in Embudology. I sure hope I graduate someday!

  135. All,

    I may mess up what I’m about to say but I’ll make my best attempt;

    This may be the best case to justify that the chest could be located within the state on NM.

    As I went alone in there,

    As I have gone alone in there,

    Both these examples appear to say the same thing, but closer analysis of the differences between “went” and “has/have gone” is possibly key to proving this theory.

    When using the present perfect “has/have gone”, the implication is that one has not returned and is still in there.

    Incidentally, you would normally use “I went alone in there.” when the time of the action is understood between both speakers, so the context might indicate whether he is alone in there or back where he came from.

    What this means to me is that if the treasure was located outside of the state that Forrest resides in (New Mexico) then it seems logical (grammatically speaking) that he would have wrote “As I went alone in there” because we all know that he has obviously returned from whatever state outside of New Mexico. I know, the critics will say “well he went outside and returned isn’t that the same”, possibly yes. Think of it this way when you return from a weekend vacation and your coworkers ask you what you did on your weekend you would say “I went to….” because obviously you have returned and now are back at work. The same could be said if you didn’t show up Monday and your boss called you and asked you where you are you may reply “My mother is sick and I have gone to California to help her”, you obviously have not returned.

    I know this may be hard to follow and I could be splitting hairs based on confirmation bias, but there is something to this idea in my opinion. Maybe someone can help me out on this theory or straighten me out if I’m way off the reservation.

    Thanks all.


    • Well litterateOne since Fenn misspells words on purpose, uses incorrect punctuation on purpose, and says the dictionary is an infringement of free speech; you may have just made a good case on why it’s not in New Mexico. 🙂

      • Goofy,

        You are correct that Forrest has misspelled words and used incorrect punctuation on purpose, but I do not see proof of this in the poem.


    • LitterateOne ,

      I like it. Makes sense to me.

      Scenario :

      My phone rings while I am at the grocery store . . .

      ” Honey, where are you?”

      ” I have gone to the grocery store” (this would indicate I am still at the grocery store)

      2) “Honey, where are you?”

      “I went to the grocery store” ( this would indicate I am no longer at the grocery store)

      This is how I read “As I have gone . . .”

      Could I be wrong? Is a forty-pound chicken fat?

      • Yes a 40lb chicken is fat, it’s actually a turkey now…lol
        but you are reading this correctly…

      • oziboy,

        I believe that it would be more accurate to say he spent 15 years perfecting the poem. Forrest says he knew exactly where to place the treasure and no other place was ever considered (paraphrased). If this is the case it is possible that he made changes to the wording and structure of the poem over the 15 years because of trends and or topics found on the ever expanding knowledge base found on the internet. I also believe that he purposely waiting until he was almost 80 and then much like Eric Sloane releasing “Eighty” then put his plan into action.


    • litterateOne … You proposed the theory that >>>
      “As I have gone alone in there” is a clue that chest is in New Mexico, because FF writes “have gone” rather than “went”.

      I disagree, because of the inclusion of “alone”. There’s no way that FF could be “alone” in New Mexico.

      To me, that first line implies that the place he has gone into is small, a place where he would know that he is alone, as in solitude, privately, by oneself, solo, apart from others, blah blah blah.

      Ken (in Texas)

  136. As I was inspired by a view of the chest in scrapbook 158,
    I took a day trip to the Pot Creek site.
    First I found that there are two Pot Creek CulturalHeritage sites that are adjacent to each other. One is the trail in the Carson National Forest. I parked at the gate and walked past the parking lot to the trail head. There were several picnic tables at the begining of the trail. The trail itself is a well maintained and easy to walk gravel path. It is about a mile in length with placards describing the plants, and life of pueblo residents. But there was no ruins to see there. It is just a walk in the forest. Its GPS is:
    Pot Creek trail
    36°16’45.53″N 105°34’40.75″W

    Next I went to the Archeology site, which is across the street from the United Methodist Campus. It is they that own the property. I drove past the no trespassing sign that firmly states that there shalt be no trespassing no fishing no hunting no firewood no walking no gawking, etc. I parked my car right in front of the first building and walked over to the creek, Rio Del La Olla. As I stood there I scanned the scenery and plant life. It is gorgeous and a very special place. I got a strong vibe.There is sage, juniper, pinon, pine, and some desiduous trees. Fall is just beginning to set in, turning the leaves color.There are bright yellow and purple wild flowers scattered through the fields. It is a treasure of smells and colors. The problem is that it is private property. So, I had to find a way around it. The GPS is
    Pot Creek Archeology Site
    36°16’29.37″N 105°34’31.74″W

    Next I went down the road until I saw a stop sign on a side road on the east side.
    It led to Forest Road 438. This is a dubious road that follows the rio Del La Olla up to the source high in the mountains. I did not go that far. There signs saying that passenger cars should not go beyond this point. About a mile up is were I figured the private property would end and the national forest would begin. That’s where I found rocks and wood blocking the river. I declared it to be ‘Heavy Loads and Water High’. Then I got out of there. Beyond scouting the area and finding cause for a deep appreciation for the scenery, I did not search. The GPS is:
    NF-438 Rio Del La Olla creek site
    36°16’19.11″N 105°34’6.96″W

    Does the area fit the poem? Yes. Most places along the high road to Taos fit the poem. It is just a great road. There are overlooks where you look into the canyon down with marvel gaze. When we find a place that fits the poem anywhere in the Rocky Mountains, it is a special place.You will want to return there whenever you want some peace. That’s the point.

      • No, I am sorry to say that I have not read it. I have had my own experiences with wise elders telling me their experiences and insights of life. One was an old cowboy in Willow creek Montana. Near Three forks. He had been a ranch hand for most of his life except for his stint in the military in the Pacific in WW2. He was among those left behind in the Philipines and was sent to a POW camp in China after fierce fighting. Most of his stories were about cowboy life along the Madison. He was frustrated that “Kids these days don’t even know how to hitch a team!”
        The other elder that tells me stories of mountain life in Montana is my mother. She grew up near Kalispel and along the Kootenai river. I told FF that she has more stories than he does. I keep telling her to write them down.

        • Michael H,

          She will likely never write them down. I lost all my mom’s stories that way. With my Dad I did something different. I mailed him one of those voice recorders that keep data on a memory card. I also chose one with an AC power adapter to help the batteries.

          Problem was he would not use it much even though it was an easy one click button device. So I had him keep it by the phone. Then I would call him once a month or so and ask him a question. I would help him turn it on and leave it on the desk until the story was over. Then I would tell him to turn it off. If it ran out of memory, I would have him mail it back. I would fix it up with fresh memory and send it back to him. I even told my brothers, sister, aunts and uncles to ask him for stories and help him turn on the recorder.

          That worked well for 3 years until he got to the point where he couldn’t remember the stories anymore. We got a few more out of him but they were harder to understand as he kept getting things mixed up or forget he was telling a story.

          If I were to do it differently, I would call much more and have the relatives visit more. These are the things we should never lose… but do because we no longer live in family groups and tell stories.

          The elder stories are priceless as is the time spent listening to them. Michael, don’t lose your stories. Our elders waste away in loneliness when we have the technology to at least talk to them often… even if we are thousands of miles away. Call one of your elders today… you will make their day!!!

          –Just a little Timberwolf advice.


      • Is this about the Rio de las Trampas area? I hiked back the Trampas Trail about an hour and never got a warm fuzzy feeling like this was Fenn’s special place so turned around and went back to the car. I think I should have stuck closer to the stream and stayed off the trail. It was a pretty area, though, and no one around.

        • Hi Cynthia-
          Yes..the Trampas..
          I had the same feeling. To many dead trees and too much over used land. It never felt like a lovely, peaceful place..more like land used just past it’s ability to be productive.

    • Michael, That’s interesting about there being a different site where the ruins are located. I’ve been to Pot Creek where you started but didn’t know about the second one on private land. I’ve driven the FR438 road numerous times so will re-examine this private area as soon as possible. Thanks for your account of a lovely day and the GPS co-ordinates, making it so much easier for those of us who want to follow in your footsteps.

    • I had wanted to stop at Bear Wallow Canyon down the road and check the creek but I turned around to soon. Access to that canyon is at the southern end of Rio Chiquito road. There is a gate there on Google Earth, with a car parked at the spot. At the top of the canyon is Bear Spring. I will not be going there.
      Bear Wallow Canyon
      36°17’54.19″N 105°34’49.05″W

      Directly across the street 518 in the Rio De La Olla there appears to be a lone fisherman. I thought that it would be a nice solitary spot to flyfish. I would put a treasure at that spot.
      I will be going there.

  137. Michael, Cynthia, Dal… if you haven’t already come across Fred Wendorf in your look at Pot Creek, you may want to. He founded the anthropology department at SMU along with founding the Fort Burgwin Research Center in Taos, and he may have crossed paths with one of the Fenns. Here is a snippet from one of his obits:

    “Beyond his archaeology fieldwork in the American Southwest, Wendorf was involved in the protection of historical shipwrecks. His investigation of a Spanish shipwreck off the coast of Texas ultimately led to the Abandoned Shipwreck Act of 1987, which protects historical shipwrecks in U.S. waters”

    Just some background stuff.


    Been on here a couple of months, went on an expedition or 2, and made a few comments, and saw a lot of smart individuals making sense of their own interpretation of their poem.

    Whether its the right location or not, of course we will never know who is right until someone actually solves the poem correctly and grabs the Roman Chest.

    or stumbles on it while hiking or camping and never knew nothing of ” The Thrill of the Chase” or Mr. Fenn

    This is why I want to act fast and start a team and go one last time to my locale in New Mexico before winter— Who is with me??

    I will hand pick a few people so go to my website/blog and put in your resume even if you cant look for it physically or think your too old, or handicap or too busy at this stage of your life… please apply I have other options


    Thank you for your time, and Happy Hunting !!!

    • 1idwillhe – where are you going?

      I can’t go, but I could give you another spot near by.

      You and your posse could hunt down a couple of TCs while your out before the weather comes.

      • Thanks Lugnutz,

        How can you give me another spot near by if you don’t where I am going? lol

        If you cant make this trip my website gives you options of still being on the team if you prefer… What happens if we use your spot and find the chest?? if you know what I mean..

        If not maybe join us next year… unless it is too late

        Happy Hunting

        • Thank you for asking.

          If your are going to Taos I can detail a solve in the area etc.

          If you find a treasure at my one of my spots that would be awesome!

          Now I understand if you want to tell some other people where the area is and not put it out here on the blog.

          I like what you are doing in trying to out some heads together. To me that’s kind of what this blog should be about.

          Ask yourself a question when you are out there.

          What are The answers I already know?

          Good luck!

  139. If any of you New Mexico searchers are interested in the Santa Barbara Campground area, go now if you are able. I was there yesterday and the aspens and willows are bright yellow. The campground is now closed for the season but you can still park at the gate to reach the trailheads. For anyone unfamiliar with this area, take High Road to Taos, and turn southeast at Penasco. The dirt road beyond the pavement (FR116) is in good condition and any sedan can get you there.

    • Sounds beautiful, Cynthia. How are they looking around Santa Fe? While visiting last year, I came upon an area I would love to take a leisurely stroll through.

    • Me and my mother went there in May. It is now one of my favorite spots. Just before Santa Barbara is Hodges road. It goes tosome free campsites by the river. A the Hodges campsite the river runs SLOW and is good for fishing. Just up the way is a beaver dam and logs that form heavy loads and water high. It’s a good spot enjoy nature.

      • Yes, Michael, I drove down Hodges Road for a mile or so. Molly and I spent a few minutes wandering around the campsites and wading in the river. We didn’t see the beaver dam though but will look for it next time. I also would like to hike a bit on the Indian Creek Trail through Indian Creek Canyon along the Indian Creek (you know, “there’ll be no paddle up your creek” and “If you are BRAVE and in the wood.” Doubt the treasure chest is there but that’s one more place I can cross off my list. This process of elimination I’m using is taking a long time!
        But Molly and I are witnessing a lot of beautiful places. Thanks for sharing your spots.

    • Thanks, Melanie, but this cabin is listed for $850k…and it’s not entirely finished. I’d need to find Fenn’s trove first to buy it, but need it now to find Fenn’s trove. Hmmm…

      • Hi Cynthia. I know…ouch! But, it IS 10 acres and a sweet piece of land.

        IF it comes with water rights, $850 ain’t too bad as a starting point.. one should be able to negotiate it down a bit….

        Taos. Not too shabby. Sure would be a nice place to sit on the deck and think about where the TC might be. Need an investor or two?

  140. I took my mother up the high road to Taos to see the leaves change. We were not disappointed. But this may be the last week to enjoy the view. So don’t hesitate to get out this weekend.
    At the northern end, I stopped at Bear Wallow creek. I first walked up the trail until I found an easy spot to get down into the dry creek bed. I walked up that about another quarter mile. But I couldn’t press my body to go all the way back to the canyon. So, I climbed out of the creek and went back down the trail. Along the way back to the car, and my mother, I looked up the hill to the north and saw a pile of boulders. They were arranged in such a way that a small man sized cave was formed between them. On top of one of the bolders was a small cairn. I thought that this could be it. The place where FF would lay his bones and the chest. But getting up there was a problem. I am short one leg, and weak.The soild was soft and scattered with rocks and brush on a steep slope. Could an 80 year old man go there? Yes. I got on my hands and knees and scrambled up to the pile of boulders. But right below the hole was terrain that I could not quite pass. I could just see inside from six feet away. It didn’t look so big from that angle. So, I have decided to pass it on to people more strong than me.
    I was not the only person that went up the creek that day. There were foot prints in the sand. I don’t think that the chest would be in the creek, but it is a way to get to the Bear Wallow Canyon and Bear Wallow Spring if you have the strength to go that far. The smell of sage and pine there is strong and the general area is a special place..Good luck with that.
    36°17’54.19″N 105°34’49.05″W

    • Thank you, Michael. I think we all appreciate your willingness to share your adventures and insights into the chase. Nice sleuthing! It was a beautiful weekend for exploring in beautiful NM, wasn’t it.

  141. Michael, you are a special person and your commentary is greatly appreciated. Just wanted to let you know.

  142. All,
    It is true that Montana is “The Treasure State”, and apparently a center of searcher activity; however, I see some interesting possibilities in NM.
    I’m wondering if other searchers are actively planning searches in “The Land of Enchantment” at this time. (I read Cynthia’s delightful report.)
    If anyone cares to reply, please feel free to NOT provide any more specifics than you are comfortable with.
    Safe searching, everyone!
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

    • We can not search till next year. Hubby had open heart surgery triple bypass. He is doing great. Nine long months to go.

      • Wildbirder,Yes thoughts and prayers to you both, and 9 months will give you time to figure out where the chest is. I am praying for wisdom for all of us New Mexico searchers.
        Have a good day all searchers far and near.

        • hubby is doing fantastic we are just grateful we caught it in time. he has diabetes, had changed his schedule and we were caring for a four yr homeless child. he was very tired and i had said he should get checked. GROWL-GROWL SNARL-SNARL GRIPE-GRIPE. TWO DAYS LATER HE IS HOSPITAL. moral when you feel bad go to Dr. i am fighting a-fib and wearing a heart monitor to find the reason. I FEEL FINE and i am ok. we are grateful for the prayers.
          as for of our search we have a VERY detail solve. at last count we have 60 plus supporting points. in fact Mr Fenn’s weekly words from feb 19 2016 “Your destination is small, but it location is huge”. we think think refers to a canyon that is small but is located in a huge place like a state or national park vs a whole state. we think this helps narrow where to search and confirms our solve for us. we also think the blaze is very simple. we think the blaze is a mountain top that you can not see till you reach a certain point in your canyon then you look down. we always wonder why you would see the blaze and then look down. for us this implies you are looking upward for the blaze. a mountain or this blaze can be moved but it not feasible. i tested this when i was in palo dura canyon. again these are our ideas and until we can get BOG that is all they are ideas. we try to share everything we can without giving our solve away. God bless & happy hunting

          • Birder, be sure and take care of yourself, God Bless you for taking care of the 4 year old homeless boy, He isnt homeless any more he has you . a rare bird indeed….
            I believe you are correct about it being in a small spot in a big national forest,
            good luck, winter time is to hard to search in so stay in the warmth and enjoy all you do…

      • hey 1id, looking forward to reading your posts.
        New Mexico is the team for me. The more the merrier, lets find that chest and give F his braclet back..

          • Hey Birder, yes there is alot of info to read, ive been at it for 3 years now,, made one trip for nine days the first 6 months, so sure i knew where it was like all newbees, boy that taught me a lesson soooo,, ive been following the scrapbooks and researching maps for about 2 1/2 years now,, hope to make one more search this coming spring.. I have slowed down on the blogs, to much constant sitting at the computer, didnt help my arthritis at alll, I needed to be outside working in my yard,,maybe i will run into you and Hubby.
            Stay positive in all you do, Enjoy every day.

  143. Hi Everyone!

    This is, (or was), The Lurker Of The Chase. I’m Bob and my wife is Anja and we post videos to YouTube on our channel Follow Our Wanderlust. We have studied Forrest Fenn’s poem , own some of his books and checked out some search areas for 3 years now. We are living full time in our RV now and would like to share our searches. Not all of our videos are about searching for Fenn’s treasure, but when they are, we’ll post them here. Enjoy and I’ve put the link below. Thanks!!


  144. hey folks i am bored and was playing around on google & google earth. i dont it has much to do with the search but who knows. i found a site with a list of ghost towns in NM. one of them made my heart skip “Pietown” until we found it was way too far south. they are still interesting and there maybe some here. at very least its a place to see on visits. here is the site.

  145. hi sally2fleming
    hubby & i are in n. tx. we started our collection of info in 2012 & first search in 2013. we been 3 or 4 times. if we were to find tc it would be tough to figure out all of our history with this lol

    • Im in Arkansas close to little rock, I have changed my search area from the first trip,, im focused on the pecos area now. I dont plan on changing my area again. I can imagine how much you can amass with 3 or 4 different areas, mind boggling to say the least.

      • Sally, I love/loved the Pecos area too but it’s difficult to find access into the Pecos Wilderness and still meet the 8.25 mile criteria especially from the eastern side. I like the idea of starting at his house and going north on the Santa Fe Trail. Have you ever considered taking the path farther north up the Santa Fe Trail using the Cimarron route to the Philmont Scout Ranch area, like Tooth-of-Time?

        • Cynthia, i am sticking with the Northern pecos area. I know where i want to go and pretty much how to get there. I think you will haft to put boots on the ground to find the additional clue areas as you go.. I still read the new scrape book posts and the weekly words at MW. i may come to Santa fe area this spring and try my solve. I hope to get to meet you and of course see if Forest would like to have a chat about anything other than the chest.

  146. Fascinating wilderness in New Mexico. Beautiful in its own right.

    de na zin new mexico

    de na zin – Yes


    • Yep, beautiful place to visit. It’s not in the highlighted area of Fenn’s map in the back of TFTW, though, is it? Looks to be a ways south of Farmington.

      • pdenver,

        The Bisti/De Na Zin Wilderness of New Mexico is quite literally “no walk in the forest.” Not by a long shot, lol – (Not difficult to understand how the Flyer might be drawn to a high desert).

        My preferred New Mexico location however not spelled out on the map, is, IMHO, located ‘within the highlighted area of the map).


        Elevation level being listed at 5,400 – 6,800 feet.

        Crownpoint to S Farmington, NM – Highway 371

        Of added interest:

        Isolated and peaceful.

        Desert land with no water available to use

        Areas are close together, however it would be best not to walk it.

        A rock formation named “WINGS” (I’ve read it’s particularly beautiful at dusk).

        Expect thunderstorms on and off.

        Heavy monsoon rains in the Summer. (Clay and mud).

        No place for the meek as it could pass for being on another planet!

        Petrified logs and stumps.


        Moveing forward, it could be easy to get lost in there, so a good map sure wouldn’t be a bad idea!.

        A flashllight might be helpful.


        No trails. Lots of gravel.

        So much more to experience! Don’t forget the Alamo!! (Right, Passenger??)

        Y not give this magical place a serious LOOK? Let me know what you think!




  147. hi folks we want to share this. please note these are ideas & opinions but are facts of our solve.
    After reading searcher’s solves we felt we have not shared as much of our solve as other blogger have. After much thought, prayers, hair pulling & discussions or is that cussing we came up with what we are willing to share on the blog. We as of now only search in the state of New Mexico.
    This is our solve. This does not contain our complete solve however it is what we feel comfortable sharing with everyone. These are our ideas & opinions & do not guaranteed that we will find the TC even if we can put BOG again. It only represents the research, time spent, BOG we’ve done, fun we have had, friends we have made and lost during our time here and money we spent searching.
    Our solve using F. Fenn Poem:
    The first four lines are an introduction to his tale explaining the actions taken by Fenn & does not contain clues except for the added clue ALONE. It explains what he did & why. Which is backed up by Fenn quotes.
    As I have gone ALONE in there.
    1. Fenn has claimed he went by himself in a car to the site, made two “trips” into canyon & did it in one afternoon.
    2. Fenn claims to have been home in time for dinner. Peggy didn’t even miss him.
    3. Time frame 12:00 pm – 6:00 pm. is usually used to define an afternoon. 6 small hrs. to drive to the location, make two “trips” into canyon & return home. We will explain importance of the word trips later.
    The next few lines continue to say or state what he did.
    And with my treasure bold – I can keep my secret where – And hint of riches new and old
    These lines say he took the TC with him which contains treasures that he describes as old & new. The words “new” & “old” might be a referring to some items being “new” such as he the recently brought chest or his written biography and older items that are artifacts he had for a while. This line could also mean the area has a history of riches from long ago and found in the present or recently.
    His secret was where he was going & that he was going to commit suicide. Most people who commit suicide do it in a private or secluded place because what they are doing is a secret & private. They do not want to be stopped from their actions. The reason for note or poem in this case is to explain or justify why they did what they did and sometimes to help find them as in the poem
    Remember he was planning to die there. He did not want to be found easily. He wanted to become a legendary person and not a footnote on google like his father. This is not meant as disrespect to Mr. Fenn
    First clue: Now he tells us WHERE TO START. With every race or quest you need a starting point or line.
    Begin it where warm water halt
    WWWH must be a place that is NOT an opinion. It must be a point of refence that is not arguable or debatable. A provable place which can be found in a thousand of years from now as to where to he said to start. Remember he was a searcher of artifacts and knew how history could be debated. It needed to be a histrionically provable FACT. Fenn even said all you need is a good “map” to find the TC.
    WWWH must be a documentable item that in a thousand of years from now could be understood regardless of any future changes.
    WWWH must be something that can be found as a document through research in the future. Here is where the NM fishing guide map comes in. NMFG was printed during the time he hide the TC therefor it is a provable document. It is a provable fact. If you can find another WWWH that meets that criteria you might just have something. Also, most journalist believe that is where WWWH is. Forrest Fenn fishes so he used or knows of this map.
    Guess where Fenn’s home is? It is in in Santa Fe and SF is on the edge of WWWH. Where do you start a trip from; its where you live. Even if I go to NY on a long trip my starting point is from where I live.
    And take it ( IT = TC) in the canyon down
    1. Once you enter a canyon you are down in them. It’s another play on words from our dear friend Fenn.
    2. BTW if you are not in a canyon we don’t think you are in right place.
    3. Recently in Weekly Words from Fenn on Feb 19 of this yr. he said “Your destination is small, but it’s location is huge” We believe your destination is the canyon and where it is located is huge like a state park or national park or you could even say a certain state but that does not narrow the search area to a more precise area like first idea.
    Not far but too far to walk
    1. He took his car and did all of this in 6 hrs.
    Put in below HOB
    We will leave HOB for you to figure out. All we will say is we have a HOB no else has mentioned.
    From there it is no place for the meek
    1. The person who finds the TC will not be a meek person. Fenn said that you would need to go in confidence. A CONFIDENT person is not meek.
    The end is ever drawing nigh.
    1. You are traveling in a canyon and you are getting close to the end
    2. You are traveling and getting closer to the TC
    3. If a creek is running through canyon stay to the left of it.
    4. Stay towards the left side of canyon
    There’ll be no paddle up your creek
    This is my favorite clue. The definition of paddle is “move through the water in a boat using a paddle or paddles. If the definition is preceded by the word “no” the above definition now reads “no” move through the water in a boat using a paddle or paddles. Fenn is a marvel at word play.
    Just heavy loads and high water
    “Just heavy loads” is plural here meaning more than one load. The word LOADS represents the two trips plural that Fenn made with the TC to the hiding spot.
    For us if TC weighs 42 pounds then about half would be 20 plus pounds. Carrying that much is a heavy load for most people including us. Please remember that the TC must be carried an unknown distance from the area where TC was hide. 20 plus pounds could get VERY heavy fast.
    “High water”
    This clue we cannot share it’s a MAJOR part of our solve.
    If you’ve been wise and found the blaze
    We think the blaze is a mountain or MAJOR landmark that you can only see once you reach that critical point in your canyon. BTW if you are not hiking a canyon you may want to rethink your search area.
    1. Trees will not last thousands of years
    2. A boulder with marks on it might last but is not safe form vandals who might alter the “blaze”. We have seen firsthand how much vandals’ markup trees, rocks & everything else they can mark.
    3. Fenn had 6 hrs. to drive, hike, and return home. How long does it take to mark a boulder for centuries? This does rule out a boulder or large rock no but does make it a less of a possibility. If it is a large rock or boulder it should be one that ice, water and wind could not change easily.
    As you are hiking the canyon looking up for that first glimpse of the mountain or landmark you are looking upward so once you view the “blaze” you must look down right away to find TC. It probably will be a mountain or landmark with a “blazey” name.
    For us the rest of the poem is frosting or filler to finish the telling his tale. So, he can become a legend himself and turn one of us into one too.
    So far in our research we have found over 60 points include the above ideas that help our solve. These come from the Fenn’s first book and clues he has given since the beginning in interviews, writing, etc.
    Happy hunting from wildbirder & hubby

    • Everyone sure has interesting ideas. I think no place for the meek is a location with a name. Where did you get Fenn had six hours? He could have had six days.

        • I abbreviated it but i said this was our humble opinion & idea. I only met that Mr Fenn said one afternoon & afternoon is defined usually as from 12:00 / noon till 6 in evening. (Several of our friends define afternoon ending around 5:00 pm) i based that on what Fenn said & common sense or thoughts.

          • Yes, I agree an afternoon is normally defined as 12-6, guess I should have specified that he could have started anywhere. You assume he was at home in New Mexico when he started out the morning of the hiding. That’s all. : )

          • I have to point out that Forrest went to hide the treasure at 12:00 that day, but returned by 11:30. He used a time machine when hiding the treasure. He had to make two trips because he forgot a sandwich he had made, and had to go forward in time to retrieve it. After hiding the treasure, and having a bite to eat, he went back in time to a half hour before he left. This of course is just my opinion, and not based in fact. 🙂

      • I believe Mr. Fenn stated he took two trips and did it in one afternoon. I believe to define what an afternoon is may be of some importance.

        • @pdenver – I would also currently believe it to be significant, and suggesting the Zia symbol (NM flag) is related to Fenn’s words.

          Hinting of Ritch’s new and old with his thesaurus’s bold may also be a reasonable research project.

    • You and your wife have put in a fair amount of time with your “solve” – My hat’s off to you.

      By ending at the blaze, I feel that you are making one heck of a mistake. After the blaze, and looking quickly down, there are still ten lines left in the poem. These ten lines have provided me with a LOT of information that I feel that you are missing. I encourage you to spend at least as much time on these last ten lines as you have on the first twelve. Just my opinion. JDA

          • i used a highlight to mark the nine clues we used and one hint. but the way the blog is set up it doesn’t read as clearly as it would on paper with them & double spacing but we agree with how the blog posted it to save space. then under each clue we number our supportive ideas that support our solve. Mr Fenn said there were 9 clues in the poem & these are the ones we choose. we were only trying to share our opinion & ideas which we had not done very well after our other searches that FAILED because we couldn’t do a complete search of our area. we to fine items in the other parts of the poem that could support our theory but we just gave the clues we used. until we get BOG on ground we will not know if we are right or wrong.

          • Sorry I read it too fast I guess – JDA

            From the “Cheat Sheet” above is the following:♦ Q: Were both trips made on the same day/date? “I made two trips from my car to the hiding place and it was done in one afternoon.f”

            This quote says NOTHING about being home for dinner – I think you
            have read FAR too much into this quote. Just my opinion though, and what do I know? – NADA JDA

          • on this one point we may have took liberties & please forgive us. we may have gotten the idea from someone else.

            but still if he did it in one afternoon there is only a 6 hr window and we eat at 6:30 or so so it is plausible he was home for dinner

    • wildbirder ~ “2. Fenn claims to have been home in time for dinner. Peggy didn’t even miss him.”
      I would like to know the comments / quotes you have read that lead you to this conclusion.
      For that matter; could you explain what quotes / comments lead you to conclude ~
      “1. Fenn has claimed he went by himself in a car to the site, made two “trips” into canyon & did it in one afternoon.”
      More specifically, Trips into Canyon.

      Appreciate…. Thanks

    • Wildb, there is something wrong with this picture. when he said he did it in one afternoon, was he talking the full trip from his house to the place and back before diner? If this is true then there is no looking into WY or MT, it is like 6 hours to Denver from Santa Fe.

      • this is our solve we never said we ARE correct only hope we are.
        but how far could you drive literally near death.
        the most i like to drive for a short trip / day trip is between 150 – 200 miles. being ill and having to hike two trips who knows how far he could have done. but he said he drove a car there & back in ONE afternoon.
        for our solve we take him at his word and we keep it simple.
        this is our solve and our ideas

        • Wildbirders,
          If I’m reading your line of thinking correctly… you take the “trip” to the hide to be fenn’s only trip to die. Ok, I can see where you’re going with the thought process.
          Originally, fenn knew where he wanted to go and take it [the chest] with him. So, at that time you feel he would have been to ill to travel a distance.

          Unfortunately… we only know that fenn original intent was ruined by him beating the cancer.
          So would it be safe to say that, what we have been told, may not be how he would have done his “Last Trip”? with the intent to die there…
          1) He would have left a vehicle behind.
          2) He still needed time to write the poem and the book to get it all out there for us to read about.
          3) You are only assuming he was so ” ill ” that he was to weak from that illness to travel far.

          So Hypothetically; if fenn was to actually fulfill his last wish… so to speak… I would think the process to do so would be much different, then the process of what he actually did, and told us.
          He would not want to have a car within any distance that could be linked to his location. He would have imo said his good byes to family.
          And has far as his physical condition at the time… he could have been strong and capable…Only a person who was told they have cancer, But we don’t know his physical condition at the time… that would be a big assumption to think he was frail and weaken and incapable of traveling farther.

          Because of these thoughts I presented… would you say that any one trip to any location, even outside NM, is very plausible?
          With that said; I still believe there are some misunderstanding with your thoughts… such as “two trips into canyon”… I can find anywhere his trip involved any canyon. That would be a big deal if actually stated.

          • we say canyon because its part of our solve. we are not trying to prove us right or anyone right. just trying to share our ideas. the canyon idea comes from the canyon down comment.
            we can as we have said several BE WRONG!!!!!
            this is only our solve. we will go next year with BOG so we can search & maybe fail again

  148. interesting read…. I am also a fan of new mexico a lot of searchers are NOT they think he hid the chest on a plane or in car when they traveled on vacation to Wyoming or Montana thus that is why fenn is not giving a true date of placing the treasure in the secret spot so people cant look for rental car documents or plane schedules… right now I am only pursuing this one location and have been their twice but have a lot of places to look in a 10 mile radius so even tho I think starting at his home is a good play I will be busy elsewhere… Good Luck and Be safe… AAaarrrggghh

  149. It is possible that treasure was left in the three other States with New Mexico being the the primary….location.

    Anything’s possible.


    • We agree. Until we find the TC this is partly theory. Followed by BOG. But a pretty good theory. LOL

        • thank you i was reading some of the solves to hubby and reread what we had posted. we were not trying to hide as much as not give too much away. its hard to put your neck out there because there is no telling how many axes will swing in your direction. LOL but we felt we had not been as sharing & helpful as we could have been. we have a lot more but feel we need to play those cards glued to our shirts and two pounds of duct tape over that.

  150. Wildbirder, thanks for sharing. Some good ideas. FF has commented that he made two trips from his car to the hiding place in one afternoon, one with the chest, the other with the contents. Where have you heard that he was home in time for dinner?? Never heard that before. And I don’t remember him saying that the drive was part of that “afternoon”. Peggy didn’t know when he hid it but I dare say the he has made a number of overnight trips (fishing-business-etc.)without her over the years.
    I will agree that one afternoon is 6 hrs, but if he made both trips in 20 minutes, it would still be done in one afternoon. just MHO.
    Good luck and keep safe.

  151. gee all we did was post our solve and the sharks and piranhas are out for blood YIKES!

    its just a collections of our ideas. we were asked to post more a while ago. we felt we owed fellow blogger more info on our solve. its what we are using to search for the TC.

    • May I offer a thought, please? Remember, you are given the choice to accept or decline what is being suggested. If you feel strongly about your solve, isn’t that what’s important? Continue to have fun with the chase.

      • we meant no meanness in that remark. i to have been sharky myself. i meant playful i ask amy if she had a bandaid. i sincerely hope we offended no one including sharks.

    • Wildbirder;

      We are all excited for you. YEA for you for developing a solve. We are NOT sharks or piranhas. We are all fellow searchers with our own solves and ideas. What I, and others, posted was meant to let you know that we saw what (to us) appeared to be a “Leap of faith” on your part.
      Does this mean that we are right and that you are wrong? No it doesn’t. It means that logic is telling “us” that you went one step too far in you WANTING the facts to say that the answer to the puzzle MUST lie in NM,,,A “leap of faith” that many of us are not willing to take.

      We are ALL entitled to our own truths or opinions – we are not entitled to our own FACTS. All we were doing is pointing out something that you appeared to accept as fact, was in truth, just an opinion.

      Thanks for posting your solve. You have put in a lot of work. Good luck to you in your search. You MAY be the one to come home with the TC someday. I hope that you find all that you seek. TRY to STAY SAFE JDA

      • please see my above note. i meant my remarks to be playful not hurtful. i am sorry it didnt come across that way please no offence intended as i said including to sharks.

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