The Minerva Solution…

Submitted by Paul-

I have included some other information on nine clues today and will reference to some of that.  If anyone has questions please ask.  If I am not correct and the final solve I know a lot of this information will help someone.

I used three tools that Forrest told us to use.  TTOTC, google maps and/ or a good map.  I wish I had a better map though.

Sorry for this being long.  There is just so much information in his solve.  Complex, but simple at the end.

Things to note when reading the book is when Ravens, crows or birds are squaking or trying to tell you something.  Also possibly windows, they can fortell something.

I am going to bypass some of the reasons behind Minerva and Weaver girl and Cowherd boy that I posted on nine clues.  I would recommend looking up symbols for Minerva- such as owl, olive tree(peace), warrior, invented spinning, weaving, major color is emerald green, lapis luzli, sapphire, spiders, stag, dragon and emblem of medusa.  Forrest also references to her with the Ivory bird that he fancies, I found out after googling Forrest Fenn and Minerva.  It is on Dal’s site as well, also on the site is dragonflis and lightning which he refers to a couple days ago-more hints.

Good story as well, if you don’t know look up and read as well.  Takes you to milky way or silver cord cascade.  South rim of grand canyon of Yellowstone.  Also known as sliding falls, it is a horsetail waterfall.  Milky way means silver river.  Clear Lake and Lily pad pond is referenced in the story. Magpies are very important in the story. All on south rim.  Above the falls is ribbon lake.  Ribbon as weaving.  All is here.  The big pictures he leads you to from the TTOTC.

Another Story to read up on if you don’t know is Jason and the Argonauts.  Minerva built the Argo.  It is a quest to find the golden fleece.  but first they have to conquer obstacles with the last being the dragon.

Now I am growing tired and weak and have a lot of work to do so I am going to cut to the chase.  a lot of information left out, but trust me or ask and I can tell you.

The major Key Word is drawing.  As I mentioned in nine clues that is the trick he mentions in TTOC, blackboard.  Go back to the drawing board, go back to start.  Where is start?  That’s why he has Begin it, so we know where to go back to.  At the end of all our exploring we end up where we began and know the place for the first time.  That is why others walked by after knowing the first two clues.   That is why the specific starting point is sooooo important.  If you don’t know it stay home and play canasta!!
The blaze is by WWWH!!!!

Use the 1st three stanzas as one book and next three stanzas as another book.  The lower has the clues and plug them into the top three stanzas.  Not too far, but too far to walk= the answers I already know.

If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, past tense!

After you go back to start or drawing board you are up creek without a paddle there is nothing there but heavy loads and water high.  I found this out after following the book clues and it took me right down to silver cord fall following Minerva,
oh yeah another hint is the parking spot his Dad the principle parks in is in the front where he goes in.  Then states the kid always bugs him with olives that he doesn’t and makes fun of the parking spot sign.   That is a hint.  Minerva-olives-parking spot-right in front to go in.   Many of those in the book.  FOLLOW MINERVA——WISE!!!!!

So after you get to Silver cord falls you go up the creek right?  Like the poem says.  But the creek is surface creek.  Surface means up.  can’t go up the up.  After that is Ribbon lake, a glacier lake.  Heavy loads water high.  But if you go here and look around this beautiful lake the trickster has ya.  You are up creek without a paddle.  S^#t out of luck.

Instaed go back to start.  WWWH–SURF SPRINGS in Forest Springs.  remember Forest says the most important part he had in life was his name!  Forest Springs a desert like thermal area in Yellowstone that has one named feature and that is surf springs.  Isolated white mountain area above south rim of the grand canyon of Yellowstone.  Park and take a nice easy 3/4 to a mile walk to Forest springs, just south of artist point.  Thomas Moran!!  There you will find surf springs a mud pot.  Surf is WWH and in the bottom of the poem is your clue Seek.  Seek means to search such as many things including the web, surf , www.   Look up the definitions, all the same.

So after you walk to Surf Springs in Forest Springs you see that it is just like dragons mouth, logic as forest says lets you see it.  You take your journey return to surf springs and see it for the first time.  Dragon which protects the golden fleece.  Mudpot, look it up contains clay, one of the first building materials along with stone and wood.  It contains a lot of iron compounds and causes discoloration and staining.  Stain those pants after you go down the iron slide as Forrest referenced to in the book.  Now behind the mudpot is the wood.  Tree where you can find the golden fleece in the tree then look down to find the TC.  Could be hidden under a log there.  Also could be w weeping willow tree like in the weaver girl cowherd story which forest references to as well.  Either way it is behind as he watches the dragon in the inhabitable desert.

Oh yeah, hard to find any good maps, so close to the beaten path and easy walk, but just off and no real good maps.  As Forrest says.

Also on the chest Forrest has a Dragon and 4 Bricklayers.  Bricks where made out of clay-mudpots.  Look up mudpots, desert, uninhabitable where he wants to be forever in his name Forest Springs under a tree behind the dragon.

Also in the story the golden fleece is a fleece, could be wool on a tree, or covered in medusa moss.  Should not be hard to find once in the area.

Any questions let me know-lots of other information and book matches all.  Also thumb is an ovolo=convex molding=architecture=Minerva ,   follow MINERVA!!!   Means Minnie girl.

If you’ve been wise and found the blaze= Minerva and golden fleece,  ( 2 clues)

Tarry scant and marvel gaze= Mudpot , scant water and tarry look and Ferdinand Hayden expedition called mudpots ” the greatest marvel we have met with.” (1 clue)

Quest= Jason and the Argonauts ( 1 clue)

And leave my trove to seek=surf   (1 clue)

The answers I already know= not far, but too far to walk (1 clue)

If you are brave and in the wood=  Knight/warrior and Evergreen(Ever) (2 clues)

Take the chest and go in peace=olive tree-hint to Minerva as is wise owl. (hint)

So hear me all and listen good=  listen to the dragon hiss.  Like the jet engines and many other examples in the book (1 Clue)


Your effort will be worth the cold = Yellowstone  (hint)
PS: I have never been to Forest Springs and if someone does go and find or not find it I would like to know.  That is my overall reason for telling my solve.  So someone will check and let me know before winter hits and Yellowstone is essentially closed in two weeks.  Like Forrest said it will be a long winter for me not knowing.

165 thoughts on “The Minerva Solution…

  1. Hi Paul –

    Thank you for a great post ! There is a lot there to digest.

    You said so many interesting things – could you elaborate on this one ———

    “Use the 1st three stanzas as one book and next three stanzas as another book”

    • Yes, I have found the clues such as seek are below in the last three stanzas. Seek=Surf, WWW etc.. Also in TTOTC in Important readings the “little girl” takes Forrest to the exact spot and gives him two books. That made me think that the exact spot needed two books.

      • Thank you Paul,

        He does take her to the spot – in the middle of a forest of books. Interesting that you said he would use his name.

        The only thing in the solve I didn’t understand is how you could go up from WWWH – as I think the poem says – go down from there?

        • No problem Inthechase, drawing is the word that is KEY! drawing is go back to the drawing board, go back to start to find the end. That is Begin it, like a game Start here.
          Drawing means go back to start like he said in the book on page 27 that he was the only one that knew that trick.
          He says in the book then says the slide I mean. I don’t believe he was the only one that knew about going down the slide by the side of the school, doesn’t make sense. But he is the only one who knows about the blackboard trick.

          The drawing is sooooo important! It is the Key! That is why he has drawings all over the book. The first time I saw the book I opened it up and said to myself whats up with all the sketches?

          Go back to start, you’ve been wise and found the blaze. Sitting behind the dragon (surf springs) in the wood.

          Does that help?

      • Intheshaseto, thanks and also I didn’t add how I felt Miss Ford was a dragon. In TTOTC Forrest states that Miss Ford gave him a side faced look and he says it looks like a can opener in good housekeeping magazine and references to an alligator. then goes on to call her an old bat.

        HMMMM- side faced alligator with wings like a bat? Sounds like a dragon to me.

        When he refers to Minerva he says you could see her face or whole face, like an owl.

        It was either raining , cloudy , or sunny in theses stories as well.

        Also Ford is the Deneb star in Weaver girl and Cowherd Boy!

          • Inthechase, email me . I would love to hear yours and help if I could. I am not going anywhere. My gold is here at home, my kids and patients need me. That is why I told to all. It was a challenge to me. I love a challenge-ex athelete in me.

        • Hi Paul, I read something much more direct in Forrest’s tale about Ms. Ford.

          Remeber, Ms. Ford spoke only Spanish in class, so when she questions Forrest about his sleeping, he responds saying that his “eyes were open, it was only [his] eyelids that were closed.” This conversation would have been in Spanish. Forrest said Ms. Ford gave him F’s but that doesn’t mean he didn’t learn Spanish. When he explains to his father that what he said was “my father said you’re an old bat” in actuality, he had called Ms. Ford a witch.

          Old Bat = Vieja Bruja = Witch

      • Paul, very interesting on the two books… He also wrote two books ttotc and tftw… He said the last one was begging to be written or something like that…

        Forrest, whatever happened to Minerva? I hope you still have her – she looked so happy in your hand!

  2. I appreciate your solve, I really do. But there are some problems to be pointed out. I HAVE been to this area. The sound of the “dragon’s mouth has changed since the 1986 ?? earthquake and is not as impressive. Problems : I never saw any dragons or bricklayers on the chest. I don’t believe they are there. There is no “medusa moss” in the area, just scrubby stunted plants. I spent some time there long ago (before TTOTC). I got very sick from the strong smell of sulphur fumes, the predominant and overpowering smell in the area. I for one would not want to have my final resting place smell like rotten eggs. Remember FF said we would smell pine nuts or whatever where the chest lies? Definitely not here.

    • Piratejim, thanks, hope this helps.

      The latch of the chest is a dragon and the four “girls dancing” are people in aprons on ladders, very old reference to Bricklayers.

      Where you to Forest springs or dragons mouth ? two different places.

      Lots of lush pines mixed into Forest springs, not scrub brush. I have seen a video on youtube about surf springs at forest springs. It was done by American west I believe. The evergreen pines are right behind the mudpot surf springs. Check it out.

      Yes, Forrest said he wants to go into the desert and die, let his bones return to the earth. Look up desert definition. Not where I would like to die, but that is who he is.

  3. Hi Paul,
    Couple of comments. I thought you told Seeker that you could derive all the information you needed just from the poem but it appears that you have done the opposite. In other words it appears that you use the book and mythology to relate back to the poem instead of using the poem to derive locations.

    Also, Forrest has indicated on several occasions that the clues are in consecutive order but it appears that you have rearranged the order pretty randomly.

    Finally it isn’t clear what you are calling clues (in the poem). There should be 9 but depending on how I read your write-up it seems like you could be well past 9 and into double digits.

    • Hi coolkid, thanks for posting,

      After I got information from the book it helped me understand the words in the poem according to Forrest. If I was able to understand each word and how he used it a person could use just the poem. I just put what I thought each word meant so everyone could get my reasoning for using words where I did.
      But a logical person could say seek=surf and so on.

      Forrest and you are correct Coolkid, the clues are in consecutive order. I just used the bottom and showed you how I found the clues. Then you use the clues in consecutive order starting with WWH . WWH to the end is in consecutive order.

      Sorry Coolkid, I think I counted 9 clues, some are hints as posted-could you help me see where there are more than 9. thanks

      • Paul,
        Maybe I’m not reading your solution correctly. To add clarity if you list the clues from the poem in order that you used them 1=xxx, 2=xxx, etc. This would show us the path you are following.

        As it stands you said WWWH–SURF SPRINGS in Forest Springs (WWWH is what most think is clue 1) but first you have us traveling out to Ribbon Lakes, Surface creek, and Silver Cord falls which don’t seem to be on the way or in close proximity (1 mile cross country) to Forest spgs. So it looks like you are saying that the chest is really at the beginning but we are going to other locations for no particular reason.

        Sorry…Just confused.

        • Coolkid, Yes you got it, but you dont’ go there if the answers you already know which is to turn around and go back at drawing. Not far, but too far to walk–think it through .

          the anwers I already know= not far but too far to walk.

          Does that help Coolkid?

          • Coolkid,

            You don’t have to go there, You go there in your mind. Process it in your mind.

            Because you already know the answer so you don’t have to walk there.

  4. Paul,

    He actually said the poem is solvable without the book. All you need is the open and a good map. I interpret that as all you need is page 132 and a good map.

    I don’t see how your solve can be done without referencing the book.

    I also have an issue with any thing being associated with a tree. Heck, I just lost a tree this weekend.

    One thing we do have in common- our solves both tell us to turn around.


    Scott w

  5. I like this somewhat romantic solution to the poem with Greek deities, heroes and dragons. Sorry to nitpick, though, the Argo was built by Argus, protected by Hera. It seems there is an Athenian version of the story “told” through a vase painting, and Athena/Minerva is definitely wise, but her relationship to Jason and the Argonauts is weak, IMO. I don’t get that connection.

    • Spoon, sorry I may have missed it, but Forrest states in TTOTC that movies lie. In his notes upon returning from his quest for Lewis and Clark with Donnie–very important story I believe.
      In the movie it was Athena and in Roman Mythology I believe it was Minerva that built the Argo- for architect.

  6. Hi Q1, I enjoy reading your posts. You are an outside the box thinker like myself. I think that’s what it takes to solve this.

    I was unaware he said you only need page 132 or the open of the book. Everthing I have read he always says TTOTC, google maps and/or a good map. I once read where he said knowledge of geology would also be helpful. Any adavantage he says to use I have used.

    You can just use the poem with the words below to solve and put them into the 1st three stanzas. That is using just the poem.

    I agree with you Scott on the tree, but Forest also knows a Forest of trees along a thermal region that has been there for long time will continue to prosper. Why these small forests live close to these thermal areas and thrive I don’t know.

    • Don’t get me wrong – I meant that if the poem is solvable without the book, then all we really need the book for is the page with poem on it.
      It was an opinion.
      Sorry for the confusion.

  7. Paul,

    Your interpretation is captivating – Thank you for a great experience!

    Forrest Fenn was born under the astrological sign of “Leo”….the Lion – It’s interesting to note that “Deneb” also completes the 3rd part of the ‘Summer TRIANGLE Constellation’ which also includes the beautiful and haunting love story of Altair and Vega. ( I can understand why FF might appreciate it).

    It’s also been written that observing Leo on a moonless, Springtime night reveals a horse, lion,owl raven and an eagle.

    I would suggest to any searcher that they read “The Cowherd and the Girl Weaver.” (The connection(S) to FF and his poem are powerful ones, indeed!)

    BTW…..might someone know if any ‘Celtic’ coinage is included in the TC? Am also curious if there is any reference to the term.. Discworld” that someone might have come across during their journey?

    A great deal of intelligence and imagination certainly went into the composition.

    Hope you will remain focused, Paul; and continue to be confident, steadfast and true to YOUR solve ~


    • SL- You are exactly correct and Yes I did see these things when putting it together. Just sooo much info. that I can’t put it all down here. SL- you know it well. That is one of the many reasons, they all connect why it should be there, unless I am missing something? I hope not.

      It is such a beautiful story! I will always weep when I see a picture of Silver Cord Falls. I swear it does look like the milky way!

    • Also SL, I can’t go, but according to the story the first wood I would check would be the willow wood if there where any there.

      And Yes, Forrest is a Leo. Born on 8/2330 I believe.

    • Discworld? Been there done that. Not so much a “term” as a fantasy story. UK write Terry P something, the last name escapes at the moment, is a collection of stories that as been going on for many years. The one character is Scant… the keeper of time or gate keeper of something. [ been a while since I read about it ].

      It’s great to research and find different subject matters and books, etc. that later just for fun, I may go back and read. But as far as the chase… I personally wouldn’t consider this helpful… just entertaining.

      If you like fantasy type book reading I would suggest, The Tide Lords series. You may need to push yourself through the first book of four [ I think 4 books ] as this book repeats itself, but then takes off.
      That is, if you like these types of book.

      • Seeker, why does Forrest mention Thor in TTOTC then?
        His horse is named lightning and refers to lightning a lot in his writings. Sorry, not trying to be contradictory just trying to understand.
        No, I am not one who likes these kinds of books like the tide Lord series, but thanks for the information. I do not read a lot of gods and dieties books, just had to read them in college. This was the path the poem and TTOTC took me. I connected a lot of references to this in his book, not sure if right, but just what I saw.

        Just like his multiple references that Forrest makes about gravy and brown gravy and cleaning kettles and after that had white hands from scalding water with deep canyons, and the sauce looks like brown gravy. To me this sounds like scalded white earth and mudpots. I read passages like this more than once in TTOTC.

        Thanks for the input seeker!

        • Well… My response was to SL about discworld. But that’s OK… The books are not about Gods or religious deities, just made up characters in a off world fantasy.

          • Thanks for the clarification seeker. No worries. Just trying to put everything together myself.

            Just a question for you seeker. Why does Forrest write a book about a treasure and say on the front cover insert of the book that if you can unlock the clues within the book it will lead you to the treasure(paraphrasing). That would not make sense to me to just make up characters in a fantasy book and lead them astray?

          • Um, what?!

            I’m not pickin up what ya puttin down…
            That would not make sense to me to just make up characters in a fantasy book and lead them astray?

            My suggestion was to SL if he/she likes these types of books… I just recommend that series as a fun read. Nothing to do with the chase.

            I could plaster the correct wording from the book… comments and statements, quotes and Q&A’s all day long on what FF has stated about information in the book, but to be honest… it’s a waste of my time.

            You never did answer the one question I asked you from start, Could you have come up with this solve without the SB of Minerva, and all the other components… Jason and his group etc. with just the poem and the book?

            I think this is a fair question, as since the start of the chase and the release of the book in 2010. All we had at that time was just that… the book and the poem it contained. Without any of the After the fact comments, SB, Q&A’s for any possible guide… Can you explain how you would have come to your conclusion, with just the original information? if not, then is it possible that too much imagination lead to a wrong conclusion / solve?

            I’m a true believer in the fact that, Forrest Fenn gave the readers all the information needed to solve the poem from the start… to solve this challenge. That is all I’ll say.

          • Morning Paul…

            Regarding your statement above
            “and say on the front cover insert of the book that if you can unlock the clues within the book it will lead you to the treasure”
            The poem is in the book…

          • Sorry seeker I thought the question was directed to me.
            Also I have answered how I got to the blaze using just the poem. Look up a few posters under Nate( the poster) . He asked a similar question.

            Hope this helps, if you can’t find it I will type it out again for you-thanks

  8. Paul, thanks, very exciting, seems like you were on to something but the final location doesn’t seem like the place to me, the body would be discovered within a summer season or two for sure….? Also, how does ff’s middle name apply to your solve as a hint to hoB? Nice to see a potential solve for a change, it’s been a while…..-cholly

    • Hi Cholly,

      This is a very remote area, no maps that I know of for the geothermal area and the few people that walk thru this area go to Ribbon lake and stay on the path. I could see no one going into the trees behind surf springs for a very long time.

      So Sorry Cholly I just looked back to my morning post on nine miles. I was seeing patients and in a rush. I meant it to be two different post. I did not know his middle name. I was curious. I now know it is Burke.

      I meant to say what is Forrests middle name? And later I will wet your whistle with the HOB when I have more time. Meaning in the post above.

      Sorry for the confusion Cholly!

  9. Paul,

    Lets skip TTOTC book for a moment and go to the other stories / books that seem to be needed in your solve. If fenn never wrote the SB on Minerva, could you have found any connections from the poem [ ok ~ and / or TTOTC], without it?

    I have been going over in my head about, all these outside usages that seem to be “needed” to solve the poem. Is there anyone that has a Solve that doesn’t involve SB’s as Needed, Q&A’s as Needed? Other books from any venue that is Needed”. Don’t get me wrong Paul, there will always be some kinda researcher needed… example you looked up meanings of words. Yet now the solve of the poem seems to relate to nothing in the TTOTC book and all to do with other books / stories / mythologies etc. I find this a bit hard to follow as Again needed information.

    I maybe bias as to this… But should we go back to 2010 and use that information that was provided as usable then to solve the poem, would Minerva etc. even be mentioned? It’s a bit of a stretch for me…

    With that said, I can plop you in the same spot you have shown, just by an easy geographical explanation of the poem and actually, I have posted them over time on here and other site… The Mudpots, the sulfur, Mr. Bubbles / dragon mouth. the falls etc.
    Maybe you can explain the need for these other stories, and without them the poem is not solvable. AT least that is what I see here. Am I wrong?

    • I think your wrong, unless someone showed you the word that is key . Drawing, back to the drawing board , back to start and etc… See above. That is why people can walk by WWWH and not know it.

      • Forrest never said people can walk by WWWH and not know it – he never said that. If we are not careful in what “we” say – FF said – we are going to end up in a jumbled mess…………….

        • Forrest said that he knows that people have gotten the first two clues correct and walked right past the treasure chest.

          Check the cheat sheet it is in there.

        • The problem I have with his ‘supposed’ comments is that the 2nd and 3rd clues go hand in hand. (Canyon down & Not far, but too far to walk…) Wouldn’t those folks have figured out the first 3 clues?
          I realize that I might have the clues wrong and that is another problem I have with there being exactly 9 clues. I won’t go into that, right now.

          Is there any way to confirm that he did in fact say: “Others have figured the first two clues and went right past the treasure and didn’t know it.”??

          Sorry if this has already been confirmed. Just very curious about it. 🙂

      • Hey Paul,
        OK, without the word drawing [ drawing board ~ Mrs. Ford etc.} as the word that is key, and your thoughts on it bring you back to a spot. Allow me to explain how the poem can do just that by definitions and Multiple Meanings.

        The first stanza relates to a place where the chest lays in wait. It connects with the overall meaning of Waters, as in all liquid within the range.
        Warm, using the meaning of ‘ as a seeker ‘ indicates one is close to that spot.
        The 2 stanza’s first sentence describes the action of the water[s] over the entire Mountain Range, while the NFBTFTW will direct you Not to go down the canyon.
        The example of this is; with the meanings of ‘ far’ as in right, and the twist on the word too, as two rights or 180 degrees , ending up facing away from the canyon down. The word halt may refer to the waters halt as in a different direction [ one meaning ] and halt as stop to indicate the search not to proceed [ second meaning of halt]

        What we have in this scenario is being at the correct WWWH [ which is provided in the first stanza and will not say more on it] Warm to indicate you are close to your goal, halt to stop the searcher from going down the canyon, halt indicating the waters is the “IT” that does go down , and NFBTFTW explain to turn around back to the beginning and don’t proceed. In this hypothetical the chest is very near the first two clues, and maybe why the searcher went pass the other seven clues… be cause they ignored the meaning of the words and there instructions.

        All using the poem. Oh wait… what about the second sentence in the stanza? Put in below HOB. In this theory all of stanza 1 and 2 are below hoB. The indicator for this is in stanza 3. But i’ll stop there.

        I don’t know if I’m right or as you said “I think you’re wrong unless someone showed you the word that is key” But yet I did exactly what you did by not going pass anything, and yet no book or outside information needed… just words in the poem.

        Just curious, what kind of practice is your field of medicine that you can’t take a vacation? You must be very dedicate to your job… I applaud you for that.

        • Thanks seeker, yes nice example. I just tried to do the best with the information I had and what I could understand from the poem. I hope it is right, but not sure.
          My time off is for balance in my life and with the family I love, they are my gold. They are not fond of Yellowstone vacations, they are too young to appreciate. 3 and 9. They like the beach. Someday..,

          • I don’t know Paul, Fenn may argue that those are the perfect ages for a trip to Yellowstone. Just bring extra sneakers for them… fenn seemed to lose his often.

          • Paul,

            Do both! Do the beach and then do the mountains.

            I took an 11, 9, and 5 year old fly fishing in the Rockies. They loved it and are begging to go back.

            I gave the five year old a graphite pole with line and a fly tied to the end so I didn’t have to worry about snags and tangles.

            Believe me! Rent a little cabin on a stream with some acreage. Get up early to look for sheep, bears, elk, etc. Pitch a tent near the cabin so you can retreat to the indoors if you want.

            Take a drive to a volcano (what kid wouldn’t brag about going to a “real” volcano).

            Make some side trips to some caverns and such.

            DON’T make it about the chase. That’s a vacation disaster. Pick one day to check it out, then the rest is family vacation.

            Lessons learned – make sure they each have their own pair of binoculars and their own camera. AND most important – if your wife wants to visit a few shops, make that part of the plan.

            Scott W

  10. Paul Can you Tell me how you would solve the Poem without the book. If you were to just dissect the poem how would you arrive at your locations? For instance how do you get a starting point from just the poem.

    • Hi Nate, sure.
      Begin it at surf springs, get surf from seek. Take in canyon down. On map it just says canyon on old map, I like old maps. Not too far but to far to walk, use the pack trail that it says on map. Put in below home of Brown. Two options both at about same place Artist Point and below Forest Springs- I like this one! From there no place for the meek- point sublime- brave knight warrior regal. The end is drawing nigh- didn’t have anything, thought it ment close to TC. Then no paddle up your creek- surface creek at Silver Cord Falls. Then heavy loads water high. Glacier lake ribbon lake. I knew I had them all but drawing line-what was it, I figured it out when I looked into drawing more deeply- laughed and knew what he had just did. At the end of all our exploring return to the beginning and see the place for the first time. It is like a dragon , steam and waves surf springs, desert , woods behind. Hope this helps

  11. I like the use of the word “Drawing” as a word that is key. It could refer to a place where water is drawn up, like a spring. Or it can refer to a petroglyph. Or to a draw, like an arroyo.
    A while back I found a petroglyph indicating a spring up a draw.
    Works for me.

  12. Paul – I hope someone offers to check or you might dream about Minerva al Winter long.

    My only thought after reading your post is that brave is a character test of the searcher rather than a place name association. The location clues seem to match up many places but the emphasis on brave is being underestimated and overlooked IMO.

    That being said, I do not consider myself brave in the way the poem asks.

    Do you?

    • 23 no, otherwise I would try to get there at all costs. Good question though 23. Made me think a while.

  13. Paul, like myself; has apparently been using his ‘eyes’ as his’ feet’ – It’s been a blessing to me to be able to truly appreciate and enjoy the thrill of the chase.

    NM has been the State I’ve most concentrated upon; however, as I continue still…to return to one of the very first comments I remember about Forrest;is a comment he had made; something to the affect: “I completed it all in one afternoon, and headed upstream in time to have lunch with Peggy in Cody.”

    Starting out at either parking area of Artist Point”, or Wapiti; the entire adventure might actually have satisfied the above and…..more.

    Lots more here that Paul might be confident in filling in the blanks!

    Again: Do remain focused, Paul. This can become a bit complicated / difficult at times.

    Thinking outside of the box often is!


    • SL great news and info. Had not heard of that. Makes a lot of sense.
      I agree with you not taking long and I would use the easy wapiti trail, or Stag for Minerva!
      Great minds think alike outside.

      • I have added a lot of good information above in poster comments SL and inthechase if you have not seen it yet.

    • SL,

      That would be a very important quote … “I completed it all in one afternoon, and headed upstream in time to have lunch with Peggy in Cody.” Even if it is, as you said, something to affect.

      Where did you find this / have reference to?

      If this is remotely accurate as to; ‘headed up stream’ or ‘ in time to have lunch’ or “in Cody”… I think everyone one here would very much like to know when / where it was said. Just hope this is not another E-mail late breaking news.

      • SL,

        I’m sitting with seeker at his table on this one.

        Can you provide a link, or other reference, as to where you read/saw that remark you attributed to Forrest?? As seeker said, that would be one important piece of info.

        Thanks in advance.

      • Seeker,

        No E-mail here.

        The original mention of having “lunch with Peggy in Cody” was made by me back on August 17th @8:51AM. Insofar as recalling exactly where I found the mention can’t be confirmed.

        To say that I’ve read over one thousand pages relating to FF wouldn’t begin to give the research justice.

        I still have respect for the thrill of the chase ~


        • SL,

          Uh……huh? OK, I see, I think. Thanks.
          One thousand?? hmmmm…….

          good luck to you


        • Ok SL,

          I have never heard of this statement, other than … making two trips to the hide from his car in one afternoon… I mean seriously, The other parts of your post would be a game changer. NM would be a wasteland, CO would have a traffic Jam, MT wouldn’t even know why it’s population dropped to 12, including cats and dogs, and I would be building a hotel in Cody tomorrow.

          If you happen to located the source… Please let me know.

        • Well SL, perhaps you should have taken some notes during your research of thousands of pages……..Odd to me you knew exactly when you made the comment, but you don’t know where you got it from.

          The other thing I find odd is you put quotes around a paraphrase.

          If Fenn said anything close to what you are paraphrasing, about hiding the chest, it would have been front page news with endless discussion on what he meant.

          So maybe you can review your research and let us know where you got your quote. It would certainly be big news around here.

  14. FF to my knowledge said he hid it all in one afternoon, he never stated where he “left” from, that would certainly give too much away of course. He also never said anything about having lunch with Peggy when he hid it…if I am incorrect please cite the reference because that information is not correct (IMO). The “hid it in one afternoon” is really a non-clue.

  15. Also another tidbit I just saw when going over my notes. Forrest once told someone who emailed him what he thought of ever. The person who emailed said ever and Forrest said ever what ever as in eventually? The emailer and Forrest did not have any responses after that.
    I always remembered that because it didn’t make sense to me for the end is eventually drawing nigh? That clicked into my head again when I started to analyze that line. But if ever is eventually it makes sense to go back to the drawing board!

    • Paul and SL

      I would like to warn you – that talking what someone said about what someone wrote in an e-mail is not fact. I would never use something like that in my solve. I would in fact – verify any actual clue over and over. This is not tiddly winks and I am a serious searcher. Making statements that are not verified is risky and not good for the blog in the long run – so if you guys are in for the long hall – get your facts straight.

      • Inthechase, sorry for the confusion. But when I report what Forrest says it is fact. I don’t use hearsay.

    • whatever! is a term used rudely by most people now days! if it means eventually that is from like 1860 LOL, maybe he was born 100 years to late

  16. Pauls story solve is quite Interesting. I guess we all have a different way of looking at things. Although I don’t think the squawking crow and widows that are made from glass has much to do with the solve . I hear crows squawking every day . They most likely found an old sandwich on the road or something meaty to eat. I don’t think it was the sandwich Forrest said to take with you. I do like the figure of the crow though. It is quite a hansom bird and minerva is another interesting figure. Good luck though !!!!!

  17. Paul,

    Turning ‘left’ at the “Y” junction comes to mind when I think about “the end drawing…nigh.”

    Logs, Willows and a host of other key elements play quite a part in this special area as well. ~

    Steadfast ~

  18. As I contemplate about the special place and think about Forrest I somehow think that the place is so special I cannot fanthom the place as the one that paul describes.. Each to their own I suppose Good to hear about different solves!!!

  19. Formed from two lakes, the area has been described as a “perfect destination for families with young children.”

    Having also researched a great amount of ancestral and fascinating material relating to Fenn, Simpson and Proctor family history; has indeed involved a lot of…reading.

    Wouldn’t trade the experience….or the time involved, for many….’things.”

      • I would agree that there also remains several interpretations that have “nothing to do with the fnal solve.”

        None the less…..wonderful reading!

        • Thanks again SL. You are a deep thinker who does there research. Only good things come from that!

  20. Thanks for posting, I always enjoy reading how others are approaching the chase.Some really good thinking in your solve.Does this area fit the criteria of not a dangerous place? Boiling mud is no joke.The irony of me telling a spine doctor to get a spine and go search your area. 😀

    • Fins up, I guess I am more of a beach person and like my time in the ocean like Skippy and his son. Thanks for the reply.

  21. Paul, your solution really stinks……like hydrogen sulfide. 🙂 Thanks for posting your solution. You have an interesting train of thought. I commend anyone that is willing to jump into the shark tank and make their case.

    I’ve been to the area many times over the years. The Clear Lake and Ribbon trails are some of the most popular (and easiest) hikes in the Yellowstone area. If I’m reading your solution correctly the chest is in the woods by Surf Springs. I don’t recall any Weeping Willows there.

    If anyone does go look be careful getting off trail in the thermal areas; it can be dangerous.

    • Wow, goofy. You’ve been there? Great to hear a searcher has had boots in the area! Yes. I believe the TC is being guarded by the dragon. Look in the Evergreen, possibly hemlock behind the dragon which is surf springs. Should be some wool or moss as the Golden Fleece in the tree. Then look down. Something maybe sandwiched in between trees or a rock also. Thanks for the information goofy!

  22. I think I better go back and re read everything. I think I missed most of it. as far as Jason and the Argonauts…I saw it when it first came out the first time… I hated it then and hate it now….if you need it to find FF Treasure… then you’ve got one less contender. thanks for the read.Good luck to all.

  23. Much too complicated for myself to fathom as a contender.
    Is it really something a child would come up with, myths and monsters maybe, but nothing as exact as this.
    I also don’t think FF would have a solution based on applying everything to one subject ‘I.e. Jason and his Argonauts’

    Good effort, though I doubt anyone will find the chest using this solution.

  24. I don’t know why I took the time to read all of that. But I did. Wow that’s out side the box and into the book’s. No sense to prod the man for his thoughts. I think Paul did a great job putting his thoughts down for all to see.Thanks Paul. It was a great read and mind bending experience. Maybe your right who knows. Id like to hear a update from any searchers checking into this theory or solve.

    Paul I think you should of asked for a nugget if the treasure is found by your guidance. You would get one from me. The word that is key is based on ones Idea when all the words are key. There, I would say is key for there is where it is. That’s just one, there are more, but I am no match for this high level of train of thought. That may be why a treasure I have not. Not yet anyway LOL Have fun always and thanks again for the post. I did enjoy the volley. JB

    • Jeff , thanks for the reply. I hope I am right too, but if not I hope it is someone like you. Great post-appreciated.

  25. Regarding the *lunch with Peggy in Cody* claim, I guess this needs repeating:

    MW, Question posted 6/24/2014:
    Did you really say the blaze is a white streak, as has been rumored? Thank you. ~Deb
    Thanks Deb,
    “No, I did not say that. There is a lot of bad information floating around the blogs and many posts that are not well thought out. One person said (I’m paraphrasing) “He said the treasure is hidden in the trees. Then he contradicted himself and said it was in the sun. How could it be both.” Makes me wonder if that person has ever been in the forest.f”

    So Fenn says it best…..”there is a lot of bad information floating around on the blogs” so readers beware. Do your own homework, take copious notes, and please don’t put quotes up or state “facts” without being able to cite the source. If you’re not sure about what was actually said have the courtesy to put in a disclaimer or say you’re paraphrasing.

  26. Paul,
    Your solution is imaginative, and an entertaining read but IMO you have completely failed to explain how you could derive any of this with just the poem.

    Without mythology (Minerva and Jason references not in the book) you would have no connections to wise, golden fleece, Silver Cord Falls, or Ribbon Lake. Without these connections you would have no connection to the Forest Springs or Surf Springs area. You have not identified a HOB. You have us traveling in a circle back to the beginning (why bother….why not just go straight to the beginning?)

    IMO you have generally failed to square any of this with virtually anything Fenn has told us. Sorry….just can’t buy in to any of it. I think you made a wise decision not to bother visiting the spot.

    • I’m with Colokid on this one. I’m not a poem purist by any stretch of the imagination but at the end of the day you have to be able to remove all outside material and have the solve make sense in the context of the poem. The poem tells you the basic features and fundamental characteristics of the solve (e.g. a sphere), the books tell you what that sphere’s precise form and function is (e.g. baseball). When you have completed bringing in all of the additional materials and have developed confidence in your solve it should still have the fundamental characteristics ascribed by the poem and every step should be consistent with the directions contained therein. My biggest mistakes have been looking primarily to the books at the exclusion of the poem and I’ve wasted a lot of time this year in that distraction. The books give you great insight on framing a search but if you rely on the books or other ancillary information primarily without the directions provided by the poem you will be chasing your tail in pursuit one sure thing after another. All of the above is IMO and none of my experiences have yielded a successful find. However what they have yielded is an appreciation for how the innate human ability to think abstractly can be one’s best friend and worst enemy in this endeavor. We must think abstractly to have a chance at interpreting the clues. However if we think abstractly with bias, and develop a personal attachment to and ownership of an individual solve, we start to associate the veracity of that solve with our identity and individual worth. Once you reach that space it’s very difficult to change course and subsequent failures can feel very personal. My best advice for anyone out there is to take your solve, put it out there, (privately or publicly) like work of art on a table or hanging on a wall and reassociate those very human feelings of identity and worth that may naturally attach to the creative process in formulating a solve with a capability of remaining objective and critical of the proposed solution. Anyone can come with an interesting directional story that matches selectively extracted information from Forrest’s writings and interviews. The challenge is taking that story and asking the question over and over again whether it makes sense and stands up to scrutiny, allowing that process to evolve, refine, or completely revise a given solution. It’s a difficult process to engage in but is actually a really great life lesson that is transferable to many scenarios outside of the chase.

      • Excellent summation. May I use that? From time to time.

        I would had that most whom approach the poem purist attitude would say the same.

          • Cool kid and three rocks look above. Seek from the poem means surf which is WWWH. Surf springs.
            Wood means Forest which is the HOB. Forest Springs the home of The Brown Forrest. Nothing used but the poem!
            Use second half of poem to figure out the first!

          • Paul, I appreciate you taking the time to put your solution out there. However a lot of this seems like simple associative logic similar to a “six degrees of Kevin Bacon” exercise instead of a cohesive solution that is firmly rooted in both the poem and a broad collection of ancillary materials authored or articulated by Forrest.

            That being said, I encourage you to go out and search in the area where your solve leads. I’ve personally gone through the whole risk benefit of family/professional life vs venturing out into the wilderness in search of hidden treasure exercise. However what I didn’t realize until I got out there was how liberating it can be to wander around in a wilderness free of any man made sound and how that experience would enrich all of my day to day activities. Back home hiking in the woods I now find myself aware of the constant noise of jetliners cruising at 30k+ overhead and how even that subtle background noise compares to an experience of really being “out there”. The arm chair solve is a fun mind game, like the world’s most complicated Sudoku, and publishing an armchair solve can be a way of feeling like you’ve accomplished something if someone were to ever find the treasure in this area. However the real value of this whole thing is allowing the promise of gold to lure you to places you otherwise may not have discovered in this lifetime. Let’s face it, none of us are getting out of this life alive and ultimately the safest path travelled is often one free of some of life’s richest experiences.

  27. Thanks, Colokid.

    Under the circumstances, I will consider the “lunch with Peggy in Cody.” comment a disclaimer.

    FF’s answer and suggestions to Deb’s question tells it like it is. I can understand and see it much more clearly now.


  28. OK, Paul, Forrest said all one needs is the poem and a good map to solve and don’t mess with the poem… You think outside the box and it is very believable but for most of us a bit far fetched. IMHO the solve will be so simple after being constructed to appear complicated. What has Forrest said about your solve have you presented it to him and gotten his thoughts about how very close you are or possibly how way off base you are. Inquiring minds want to know….If I had the finances, I would go back to New Mexico, and then explore Colorado, and all other possibilities!! You have given us lots to digest & ponder. Keep up the good work!! I have several notebooks with lots of theories and need to post some of them but am too self conscious to let my crazy ideas go public and feel the seekers and searchers of our elusive TC see how really out there I am on some of my wild hair adventures in my mind…. Good luck, will look over notes and maybe publish one or two here One involved a mystery writer who lived at the Bent hotel house in NM where the first Governor was murdered. I am coming back one day soon and going to the places I did not get to search two years ago… Bon Chance and see you all in the funny Papers and as always, continue the chase….. Ms. Girl Still in the Game

    • Thanks for the good information MS girl. I have not contacted Forrest, do I call him, email him? Many have said he doesn’t return emails anymore and if you go to old santa fe website it says it is a support staff email, may not ever get to him.

    • No one is stopping him from doing just that… Folks are asking question and voicing opinion on what has been presented thus far. Paul has his own page and opportunity supplied to him, to add has much as he likes, and answer any question he would like to.

  29. You like hundreds of other people took a “Key” that didn’t belong to you or Forrest.

    Your never asked permission, and you just assumed everything is yours for the taking.

    One of the reasons your unable to use this “Key”

    Things that are free and require no work or dedication to achieve, aren’t always the best things in life.

    That being said Fenn said “You only need the poem”

    He also said “Don’t mess with my poem.”

    Kinda like don’t mess with that “Key”

    Don’t thank me Paul:)

    • I don’t think a person can solve this case with just the poem; without it containing ciphers, anagrams, puns, math equations, ect ect.If you had no outside info to go on the possibilities of a search area would be endless.You may be able to pull something out with a, Brown or a, Meek,but that’s a huge longshot imo.It says very clearly in the book, subtle hints are sprinkled throughout the stories.Fenn himself has said, read the poem, memorize it, and re read the book.These are fairly simple directions to understand.But I say let the “poem purists” continue on with that line of thinking.But beware, that excessive brow furrowing may start to look like the canyons down.Any solve posted is going to come with controversy because imagination is involved.I say keep up your line of thinking, Paul…By the way, is playing golf bad for ones spine? …All of the above is imo.

      • Fins up,

        I always find it interesting that folks believe that this given title ~ poem purist… { by a searcher, many moons ago, who only believe that the book holds all the answers and there is no possible way the poem could be solve by itself } …means absolutely, no research.

        I believe the poem should be able to stand on its own… yet there is always information that will be needed to help.

        Yet I’ll refer to threerocks post above, as it explains The book and poem and research, much better than I can.

      • I believe you can solve with just the poem. However, I believe your degree of confidence rises with each connecting sprinkled, subtle hint, thus, the books are your back up. Imo.

      • It hurts mine, but some things you have to sacrifice to be able and be in Nature with the people and games you love. Moderation my friend. Fins UP!

  30. @spallies,
    Sorry my computer would not let me reply to your question so I am doing it down here.
    You are correct that the poem is in the book and that may be what he is hinting to when( paraphrasing here ) he says if you can unlock the clues in TTOTC it will lead you to the chest.
    But I have never heard him say that you should only use the poem in the book and nothing else. “TTOTC, google earth, an/or a good map” To me that means the book not the poem only in the book.
    Thanks for the reply spallie, maybe I am incorrect in my thinking, just trying to reason it out.

  31. Paul,
    These are probably the most pertinent quotes on this issue:

    Dals blog Most important info/“Is the Book Important”, 1/26/2012
    Dear Mr. Fenn,
    We are a group of avid elderly bridge players in San Diego who after reading your book hope to find your treasure. We are not into poetry as much as the memoir. We realize the clues are in the poem, but were wondering if there isn’t at least one clue in each chapter.
    Thank you for a great book. Sincerely, Emily,
    Forrest’s succinct response:Emily,
    “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search. f”

    Question posted 6/27/2014:
    “Is any specialized knowledge required to find the treasure? For instance, something learned during your time in the military, or from a lifetime of fly fishing? Or do you really expect any ordinary average person without your background to be able to correctly interpret the clues in the poem? ~mdavis19
    No specialized knowledge is required mdavis19, and I have no expectations. My Thrill of the Chase book is enough to lead an average person to the treasure.f”

    So in one case “all the info…is in the poem” and second case “book” (which includes the poem. “Subtle hints ….not deliberately placed” should be considered carefully.

    • Exactly Coolkid, I like your input, but I gotta believe that any subtle hint or as He puts it above stating the book CB be of use is knowledge that should be used, why discard it and use the poem only?

      • Paul,

        Not sure how to make this more clear.

        He never said the book “should” be used. At best he implied it *could* be used for subtle hints. He said “(the book) is enough to lead the average person….”.

        But the point really is that he said “all the information you need…is in the poem”. That’s the litmus test….show how you got there without the mythology. I’m not seeing hardly any use of TTOTC other than the drawing board stuff and that doesn’t make any sense to me.

        You said:
        ” Seek from the poem means surf which is WWWH. Surf springs.
        Wood means Forest which is the HOB. Forest Springs the home of The Brown Forrest.”

        How does Seek=Surf? No explanation. How can you pull one word out of context from the sentence and come up with this?

        If Wood=Forest, why forest springs? There’s 100’s of brown forests all over the RM’s what makes this the special one. You only get there through associations with your mythology.

        That’s really all I have to say other than the fact that you keep calling me Coolkid instead of Colokid makes me wonder about your attention to details. LOL.

        • Colokid, Forrest did say,

          “Holly: What tips do you have for those wanting to find the treasure?

          Forrest: Here is what I would do. Read my book in a normal manner. Then read the poem over and over and over, slowly – thinking. Then read my book again, this time looking for subtle hints that will help solve the clues.”

          By the way you have my permission to call Paul, Pill. 🙂

          • LOL Special,

            Yes he is a Pill.

            Of course I’m aware of that quote. I could make a weak argument that F isn’t really saying we *need* to use the book, rather just suggesting that it could help because of the hints. Everyone will interpret this as they like.

            But let me make another point and If I’m wrong about this I’m sure the Usual Suspects will quickly correct me.

            I don’t believe any of these statements were made until well past early 2013. So this info wasn’t available to us for ~ 3 years. In other words, the chase was originally released to the public without these Fenn suggestions IMO because he fully expected that the poem could be solved solely with the poem alone. I would guess it was only after the search got big that he caved in to pressure and began release little tips.

            Food for thought.

          • Colokid, he did say that subtle hints would help solve the clues.

            Also, inside the dust jacket of TTOTC, he said the clues are scattered among it’s pages. That takes it back to the beginning.

            Good luck hunting. 🙂

          • I think this falls in line with… any part of something is better then nothing. He also stated that there are a couple of clues and a couple of aberration. That doesn’t a whole lot imo.

            “Get the Thrill of the Chase and read it; and then go back and read the poem, over and over and over again. And then go back and read the book again but slowly looking at every little abstract thing that might catch up in your brain, that might be a hint that will help you with the clues. Any part of some is better than no part of any. ” – Moby Dickens book signing

            “There are nine clues in the poem, but if you read the book (TTOTC), there are a couple…there are a couple of good hints and there are a couple of aberrations that live out on the edge.”

          • Special,

            You said:
            “Also, inside the dust jacket of TTOTC, he said the clues are scattered among it’s pages. That takes it back to the beginning.”

            Are we sure about that? There are two things I would question: 1) Did Fenn actually write this or is this just a literary teaser that was tossed in to spark interest in the book for a casual browser? That’s pretty common on book jackets. 2) This statement seems to contradict his distinction between clues and hints. He’s clarified that hints are in the book (in general) and the clues are in the poem only….another reason to question whether he wrote it or whether this is really useful information?

            When it comes to the read the book, read the poem, read the book statements I don’t believe you can find one dated prior to mid 2013. If someones got one please correct me. I would also ask anyone to present a quote that the *hints* must be or have to be used. Let’s remember they weren’t deliberately placed. If they weren’t deliberately placed then they must just be *happy accidents* that *might* help if you can find them. He has never unequivocally stated we have to use the book….it has only been stated as if it *could* be helpful.

            Don’t get me wrong. I’m not looking a gift horse in the mouth. I’d love to have a tip/hint and I’m actively looking though the book just like everyone else. But just like everyone else I can’t say I’ve found one (for sure) and can’t say it’s helped.

            He unequivocally stated the poem is all you need. I think it’s pretty safe to say he truly believes the poem can be solved with just the poem.

            My main focus is nailing the 1st clue….that’s been his consistent, most recent advice.

          • Colokid, your desire to take only what came at the beginning is a tangled web.

            Also see page 133 of TTOTC. Forrest refers to “clues” in the book. The hint verses clue issue is also a later interpretation.

            If he didn’t say it at the beginning, should we still include Idaho to search.

            You say, “He unequivocally stated the poem is all you need.” Exactly what did he say and where do you find that info.

            You say you are focused on his most recent advice, to nail the 1st clue. I agree with that, so I don’t omit other things he has recently said, like:
            “Here is what I would do. Read my book in a normal manner. Then read the poem over and over and over, slowly – thinking. Then read my book again, this time looking for subtle hints that will help solve the clues.”

            We humans tend to hear only what we want to hear. This whole chase experience has demonstrated that.

            Who doesn’t need help solving the clues.

            If it needs to be expressed, this is all in my opinion.

          • Special,

            You said: “We humans tend to hear only what we want to hear.”

            No kidding. This is funny because I think we are mostly agreeing but for some reason I don’t think you see the point I was trying to make.

            You asked: “You say, “He unequivocally stated the poem is all you need.” Exactly what did he say and where do you find that info.”

            Here you go:
            “Dals blog Most important info/“Is the Book Important”, 1/26/2012
            Dear Mr. Fenn,
            We are a group of avid elderly bridge players in San Diego who after reading your book hope to find your treasure. We are not into poetry as much as the memoir. We realize the clues are in the poem, but were wondering if there isn’t at least one clue in each chapter.
            Thank you for a great book. Sincerely, Emily,
            Forrest’s succinct response:Emily,
            ***All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. *****The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search. f”

            So there it is “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. ” All means inclusive….nothing else is required.

            “….subtle clues…not deliberately placed to aid the seeker.” If they aren’t placed to aid the seeker then this implies you they aren’t *required* because there was no premeditation to include them…as I said happy accidents. But by all means, let’s use them if we can find them.

            Our discussion (IMO) was what does a person absolutely need to solve the poem vs what might just be helpful. I’m making a clear distinction between the minimum necessary and everything else. I never said to to omit anything else he said.

            In fact I said, ” I’d love to have a tip/hint and I’m actively looking though the book just like everyone else. But just like everyone else I can’t say I’ve found one (for sure) and can’t say it’s helped.”

          • Colo –

            I don’t know how to get it thru your thick skull that the book will help you. 🙂

            Read the top of the inside of the cover –

            “Unlock the clues that are scattered among these pages and you can go home with a bronze chest…………….”

          • Colokid, I’m sure you are right, I’m the one who does not “understand”.

            You are not reading what I have written.

            That example you gave needs to be “understood”:
            Forrest’s succinct response:Emily,
            ***All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem.

            Yes the poem contains all that “information”. It’s pretty obvious we searchers do not “understand” that “information”, or someone would already have title to the TC. To “understand” the information we must have another source.

            This is different than f making a statement saying “unequivocally stating the poem is all you need.” You haven’t shown that reference.

            If Forrest said, “Read the book.” why would any one ignore his advice?

            If this is a matter of semantics, then much valuable time is wasted.

            Again, this is my view and opinion.

          • Look – if those stupid ladies has read the front cover of the book – they wouldn’t have asked the question. A dumb question deserves a dumb answer and that’s what they got.

          • Special,

            I’ll throw this one out there too:

            Lorene Mills interview 2012:
            ~minute 27:00 he says: “There are 9 clues in the poem and the clues are in consecutive order. You can find the chest with just the clues.”

            Since you think the use of the word “clues” on the dust jacket is important I’m guessing you’ll want to argue that there’s no difference between clues and hints but that’s your choice. Just trying to help.

            Since you feel that: ” To “understand” the information we must have another source.” ; Would you care to expand on what you think is fair game for “another source”?

            Are you mining SB’s, dabbling in numerology, codes, microscopes?

            Inquiring minds want to know.

          • Inthe,

            Yes I do have a thick skull….thank you.

            While I don’t agree that the dust jacket is a good source of information I am reading the book for “hints” not “clues”.

            In fact I wrote this in a previous post:

            “Don’t get me wrong. I’m not looking a gift horse in the mouth. I’d love to have a tip/hint and I’m actively looking though the book just like everyone else. But just like everyone else I can’t say I’ve found one (for sure) and can’t say it’s helped.”

            So maybe you missed this but not sure how you are misinterpreting what I’ve said.

          • Colo –

            I just see you placing limitations on your thinking.

            Where are the rules in treasure hunting?

            If anything FF has broken a few rules – and lived to tell. So why the box ?

            Why at this point even count clues ? You have no idea what to count. You only start counting at the end. He told you nine clues – but he never said there are more than nine and why would he – he has everyone locked up tight – while he is going down the fire escape – laughing all the way.

            As for hints – counting – there are so many it would be a stupid endeavor.

          • Colokid, you still don’t read what I write. Must be ego involved.

            You guess what I’m thinking. I guess you use a Ouija board.

            Did you read pg. 133 TTOTC? No.

            Did you hear Forrest clearly say what to use with the poem? No.

            If you have an inquiring mind, pay attention.

          • inthe/Special,

            I was hoping we could have a thoughtful exchange of ideas but it doesn’t look like that’s going to happen so I’ll just take the high-road here and fold my tent.

            Good nite and good luck

  32. Paul-

    Firstly thx for sharing with this vibrant community your knowledge …….secondly I don’t wanna be too down on everything you said but why did you weave so man disparate ideas together? Where did Jason of the orgonauts come from? The cowherder boy doesn’t make sense either ……sure there is a cow in the book but that seems too vague. Have a nice day and thx for sharing 🙂 🙂

    • Hi middle, thanks, there are Many refernces in the book. Not only a Cow named Bessie that he loves dearly. He was a Cow Boy. Also shooting milk at the cats. Milky Way. Why say 3 Babe Ruth candy Bars? Is it a hint ? Also pictures of him and discussions of him as a Cowboy such as cowboys and Indians. The weaver is due to all the things spinning, many references such as spinning tops, yo-yo’s. It all links together for a bigger picture.

      Hope this helps on my thinking.

  33. Very imaginative weave of the poem/book/literature. You have given us a great peak into your obviously creative mind although I wonder if your solve isn’t more a reflection of what in you head than what is in FF’s. I can only wonder….Thanks for sharing your ideas.

      • While reading another article relating to Silver Cord Falls, the Cascade and Ribbon Lake located within the same Clear Lake Loop area; (“, I came upon the following description:

        “The Clear Lake Loop has canyon vistas, forest, two lakes ‘linked’ by a channel, a moonscape of mud pots and a Lily Pad lake where you may spot a family of ducks swim by.”

        To say this didn’t remind me of one of the pictures Forrest recently shared with us of the ducks and pond in his backyard; wouldn’t be correct.


        • I agree SL, I as I said before. You are a deep thinker as I. Keep up the chase for me and I think you will do well. This area is so intriguing in many ways.

          SL, remember that going back to the drawing board will create a horseshoe on the trail.

          Also I never figured out why he mentions the operation light arc in the book. Quest for the arc or TC? Arc is a rainbow, light, flame arc gives off three colors CA++, Barium and variences of another? Green, Red and Black?
          The light arc took away his hearing- hear me all and listen good.

          Also Operation light Arc was used by Pilots in Laos. Look it up. Talks about Secret CIA cover up and how the pilots there shipped opium in CAT or Civilian Airline Transports and other odd and crazy stuff.

          Opium is the Big O, also stands for tar. I never figured this all out, but too many coinsidences. I think a deep thinker with time could figure it out and shed some light on it all.

          • I did research the operation light arc and it’s real! It did happen and that’s what it was called, I believe that actually fell under the 85% rule.
            IMO somethings in the stories don’t make sense at first and we assume they are clues but then there’s things that seem normal that are clues

          • Hi Paul,

            I believe it was the F-100 Super Sabre that Forrest flew during the “Fool On the Hill…. Viet Nam war. (Operation Arc Light involved the deployment of the B-52F Stratofortress).

            By mid April of 1966, all B-52D/F redeployed back to their bases in the States and were replaced by “Big Belly” modified B-52 D/F/G. (Close air support).

            Jet engines however, can most certainly play havoc on the ears.


            Have a relaxing evening ~

      • Maybe so, but lately I’ve been listening to “my rock” (my entry in the found object contest) and its has had a lot to say… Sometimes even silence is deafening. 🙂

  34. Ok this is for all the seekers who want to see how I used the poem only. I will call them the Poem Purists or PP for short.

    Use two books or the 1st three stanzas of the poem and the last 3. Get the clues from the last three stanzas and plug them in on top so there is a chronological order to follow to the TC.

    wwwh=SEEK=Surf Springs

    Canyon down=MARVEL GAZE=canyon to grand canyon of yellowstone

    Not far, but too far to walk=JUST TAKE THE CHEST AND GO IN PEACE= Pack it up and take the peaceful trail=Pack Trail

    HOB=WOOD=Forest Springs, Forest is brown , capitalize Brown because it is Forest=Forrest as in FF.

    no place for meek=BRAVE=Point sublime

    The end is ever drawing nigh=I”VE DONE IT TIRED AND NOW I”M WEAK=weak

    no paddle up your creek=TARRY=tar=surface creek=tar a roof, tar a road(surface)

    Just heavy loads= COLD=glacier

    Water high= TITLE TO THE GOLD=Ribbon ( award for winning a championship) Ribbon Lake a glacier lake.

    Those are the 9 clues and answers. I Used ONLY the poem.

    I thought drawing was sentence was weak literally. Looked it up and says go back to drawing board, go back to start. So if you go back to Start you are wise and will find the blaze.

    This is what I could have written up as my story above, but I used research and facts as best as I could to back up each word in the poem. I feel that is VERY IMPORTANT. Otherwise I could do the same for a thousand other places in the Rockies!
    I feel those who do not use research to back up their claims have nothing. Like in my profession if you do not have a double blind study to back up your claim you have nothing.
    I wish those who use only the poem and not subtle hints like TTOTC and FF’s scrapbooks and writings to back up your solve as research, the best in your hunt. I will continue to rely on my research and studies to validate my claims.

    Good Luck everyone and I hope everyone finds their Rainbow. I already have!


    • Paul, I’m at forest springs now but only have found signs/maps for surface and not sur creek. Hope to hear from you by morning w directions or a link.

      • Geoguy, sorry I just got your post. Forest springs has surf springs, a mud pot. The chest may be in the woods behind surf springs which is WWWH and dragon. If I am wrong, the other location may be surface creek to ribbon lake. Possibly a weeping willow or willow tree in the area?

        • Hi Paul,

          I hope that you and yours are doing well!

          Wanted to share something that I was unable to discuss earlier. Has to do with the “Weaver” aspect of your solve.

          A lovely and much respected lady from the Taos area of NM, was a highly gifted, respected and well-known Weaver. Her name was Rachel Brown. ( She has since passed.)

          Although I don’t really feel as though it makes a real difference in the overall solving of TTOTC; you might want to check it out. ( A kind of “coincidence” of sorts?)

          If anything else; a truly remarkable story about a truly fascinating woman!

          Would have appreciated meeting her ~


        • I went between surface and ribbon; the only sound from the trail is a creek that turns into a small waterfall. I stripped down and went to the bottom of the waterfall which is covered in thick green moss and checked everywhere around for a few hours. Your brown fields look like your golden fleece. If its there its on the trail back or down towards mud boils. I dont think its there though.

          • Thanks Geo, Surf Springs is a mud pot in forest springs. The woods behind the mudpot if you are still in the area would be the place I think the TC is , at top of post and read Minerva solve. You are a trooper to check. Thanks!

  35. Paul…just a couple of thoughts…
    ☆F said the poem is not a circle, when answering an email.
    ☆ Indians consider the alligator as guardians of treasure, F had Elvis.
    ☆ F smells Pine and Pinyon trees at his hidden spot. Pinyon are found in only 2 states in search area, and a very tiny section of WY, so say…3.
    I appreciate you, Paul, for braving up to these bloggers! They are fiercely loyal and unbending because they love the chase so much, as I do, and are all great people.
    It takes a certain ‘breed’ to have the tenacity and fortitude to search for treasure. It’s a rare breed in today’s world.
    Nothing against you, Paul, but I got a little brain fried trying to follow your train of thought and think you went into FAR left field trying to make the poem fit the the solve. You should try it the other way around. The solve needs to fit the poem!
    But, kudos for your imagination! It is better than ‘knowlege’.
    Good luck!
    ¥Peace ¥

  36. First of all I like the ideal of the Yellowstone park area as a place for searching.
    From my take on the first 3 clues ( if I have them correct, WWWH, Canyon down & HOB )

    Now someone please pass me an aspirin or two, my head hurts.
    Being some what dismayed at some of what I have read I must say this. I recall
    a classroom experiment. The teacher called one student to the front of the class and whispered something in his / her ear. And then gave that student instructions to whisper it to another student. And so on. When the last student had received the whisper the teacher started asking each student what they were told. By the time the last student had related what they had been told all could clearly see that the information had been distorted so far from the original that the true meaning had been lost.

    So now I ask:
    Please by all means when quoting something, Copy what you want to share and post the link. I humbly ask this as a courtesy to the community at large.
    In this manner we eliminate the non factual things that tend to seep into any conversations. Otherwise we all will become entangled in a web of lost meaning.

  37. Hey Paul,
    I like what you’ve done here. I can’t get into the Cowherd idea, but as usual I have found perspectives in your solve that will turn into yet another of my own solves to go in the collection. I do like your work on “drawing”, but I don’t think it is that complicated or necessary to use the TTOTC story to decipher. “Nigh” when interpreted as “left” is a horse riding term. You “draw” your horse to the left or the right using the reins to get them to turn. If you are ever drawing your horse nigh guess where you’ll end up!

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