Scrapbook One Hundred Forty Seven…





That’s what I don’t understand. If a man really loves art, why would he pay $2,500 for an oil painting by a local artist when he could have the greatest art ever painted for $1,500? It’s a foggy question I know, but I’m thinking about a life-size print on canvas by Velasquez, Botticelli, or maybe Ilya Repin.

Ilya Repin - Religious Procession Kursk Province

Ilya Repin – Religious Procession Kursk Province

Does it seem reasonable to you that a $50,000,000 value should separate an original by one of those guys from a print of the same painting, when, from five feet away, they look exactly alike? And if the original and the reproduction were hanging side by side, and you didn’t know, I’ll bet you’d choose the one in the best frame. (Of course I never expressed those sentiments when I was trying to sell one of my really great $2,500 paintings to my best client.)

Years ago, Stanley Marcus and I enjoyed excavating together at San Lazaro Pueblo. He collected prehistoric pottery. I usually did most of the work and he did most of the talking.


Uncovering a 500 year-old Glaze Period D olla at San Lazaro

Stanley Marcus and crew at San Lazaro

Stanley Marcus and crew at San Lazaro

He was probably the world’s greatest merchandizer. (Okay, maybe second to Joe Duveen.)

Once he said, “Forrest, two ladies are walking down the street together wearing identical looking full-length fur coats. One lady bought hers from my Neiman Marcus store in Dallas for $10,000, and the other received her’s as a Christmas present from her husband. He got it on sale at JC Penney for $1,995. Do you think you could tell which lady was wearing my coat?” “No,” I said, tolerantly, and that got him started. In his quiet and unobtrusive manner he explained that he built his businesses on the premise that one could tell the difference. “The woman wearing my label carries herself better. She just knows – and pride sets her mood. She’s not afraid to make eye contact with anyone on the street.”

I’ve been thinking about what Stanley told me so maybe I’ll have to rethink my art emotions. Is there some middle ground, or a good place to compromise? Recently, I saw a really nice painting by John Moyers in Nedra Matteucci Gallery. It was about $7,500 or so. Maybe I’ll go back and take another look.

John Moyers - Chief's Blanket - oil on board - 18" x 12"

John Moyers – Chief’s Blanket – oil on board – 18″ x 12″


157 thoughts on “Scrapbook One Hundred Forty Seven…

  1. I have an expensive eye. every time I see something I have to go right to the expensive item. And then I say OMG. I have to walk away. 😉

  2. Uniqueness, everyone can own the print, only one person can own the original that sat on the artists easel, in his studio, while the he poured his soul into it.

    But since I am poor, I will skip the original and go for limited edition prints of original art. Best I can do.

  3. Are there any Pueblos similar to San Lazero that can be toured by the public in New Mexico? I’ve heard you can get close to one in Taos. Are they about a 1000 years old?

    • Tom-
      The New Mexico Tourism folks put out a guide to all the active pueblos and activities.It’s a great guide and is here:
      It’s large and takes awhile to download..

      If you mean ruins of ancient pueblos that you can walk around in..
      Yes..they are for the most part on public lands..some are free and some cost a fee..some are guided and in some you are on your own..

      The Taos Pueblo is probably the most famous historic active pueblo/tourist attraction. Chaco Canyon is remarkable. Bandolier is lovely..but popular and run by the feds as a monument …not much freedom to explore.
      I am not aware of any on private land that are open to the public..

      My personal favorite is free to visit above the resort at Ojo Caliente. The Posi-Ouinge ruin is on BLM land and there are pottery sherds scattered all over the place…It’s fun as heck to walk around there and the ancient mica mine…both in the same area..imagine the folks who lived there before…In the spring there are wildflowers scattered everywhere and interesting rocks and plants along the arroyos. It’s a very meditative place to explore on your own.
      There is a brochure for that place here:

      I had a solution that began there at one time..
      I took an Australian journalist there because he wanted to go on a search with me. We had a good was part of the Tres Piedras solution..or the Tewa Connection solution..
      A story about it can be found here:

      • I’ve got to go there and see that. My new solve is around there. I think people are too busy focusing on finding a blaze, when they should be focusing on the ground, because, IMO, that’s where the blaze is. 🙂

  4. Forrest –

    You asked the question “why would he pay $2,500 for an oil painting by a local artist when he could have the greatest art ever painted for $1,500?

    I would buy from the local artist, if I thought he was good, just to support his work. I would think that if, I liked it – so may others, and his work would appreciate in value.

    I don’t know if this is the right way to do it – but I only want works I like, hanging where they make me feel good, and enhance my life. I always buy what I like.

    Once while walking in Laguna, CA – I saw a photographic print sitting on a easel on the sidewalk and said to my friend – I’ve got to have that – we went in and I purchased it for 250 dollars framed. Later my friend called me to tell me what the photo was going for now – it was HIGH…….. It was called “The Bad Boys of the Arctic” – a photo of polar bears by Thomas Mangelsen. It became the fastest selling print of all time. I bought another one and sold it – and I still have today, the first one I bought. So, I think you can never go wrong if you buy what moves something deep inside you.

  5. The painting Chief’s blanket looks similar to Navajo Land by John Moyers, but not quite his style. Did you enjoy painting it?

  6. Forrest, thank you for introducing us to 2 more wonderful artists and a fascinating retailer. I enjoyed reading about these individuals and I would suggest you go back and buy that painting by John Moyers before it goes up to $10,000! 🙂

  7. Over the years I have noted that some things are bought on the basis of what I call perceived value. I.E. So an So owns one of these, therefore it must be good.
    In the case of art my belief is based on the ole phrase ” beauty is in the eye of the beholder ” Example: The rendition of the Indian chief above does not speak to me. Where as a rendition of a Chief on a horse situated in the plains would.

    As you so kindly point out Forrest we tend to relate value with packaging. 😉

  8. In the case of a local artist, I have paid a premium, if it is someone I know personally.

  9. Forrest, Interesting! My husband and I go to museums (Louve, MOCA, LACMA, etc.) to view great original work. We can’t buy an original so we’ll buy a poster or note card. But, a note card or poster is not the same as an original. The mystery, texture, provenance and age of a piece makes a difference. Knowing that an artist painted a piece onsite and captured the image at that point-in-time adds to the allure and connection of the art work. This message is conveyed to the customer and a connection is formed. Recently, I donated a number of works by a local artist to a museum, and to my surprise, the museum happily accepted the art work. I had no idea that the museum named a conference room after the artist and that she was from one of the founding families from the area. I had bought hundreds of pieces of art from the estate and didn’t know about the connection. When I went back to review the art, I saw something different. I saw an evolution of the artist’s work and what she saw–from her eyes. Once I learned about her history, it shed light on her art work style. I saw her interpretation of images and not someone else’s interpretation of her art piece image. I’m not an art curator, but I like art and it’s illustration of history.

    • No wonder I feel at home browsing Stanley’s stores…he liked old, crack-pots like me.

      Actually, I browse his designers and find the knock-off at a price befitting my budget. A little black dress is a little black dress regardless of the label. Jewelry is another story. Real is real…fake looks it.

      Enjoyed learning about Repkin, although I’ve come to prefer stylistically the Russian artists from the Taos School that Forrest advanced in fame.

  10. The Pieta in Rome. ( Her face is so accepting of the pain.) You can really get lost in that sculpture. If given the choice, i would almost always choose the piece that draws me in the most, replica or not. (5 feet can change everything)
    Though being a woman, i have felt the intoxicating allure of wearing something no one could or should afford. And of course, one cannot deny the pleasures of touching and feeling a connection with an original. However, in the end, i go back to the everlasting truth…it only matters who they think you are.
    Great article!

  11. He didn’t say which one is his?! The 10K or we all know JC Penny’s didn’t sell Furs. Doesn’t make any difference, so the questions was redundant. If said husband bought me a fur vs. purchasing coat myself… matter what, the gift would be priceless, and she knew she was loved. That matters!

    • You took the words out of my mouth, Claudia…

      I sure wouldn’t spend $10000 on a fur coat or even $1995 on a fur coat. But if someone bought it for me…well, I’d probably return it, get the money, and buy something I liked. Lol.

      Or wear it out of respect for the person who bought it while secretly fearing an attack by PETA.

      • Oh, I guess Stanley Marcus is the “Marcus” in Nieman Marcus.
        My mom gets the catalog every year…I try not to look in it, cause it makes me sad. Lol. Some of those boots (and grown up toys)are amazing.

        • Hi Mindy, The fur coat event reminds me of a story from 1990. My 6-month old needed a winter coat in Flagstaff (from Phoenix). We ran to Sears and purchased a cute animal-looking imitation fur onesie with little pointy ears. Later that year we went to the Northeast and had our little bundle of joy comfy in the warm coat while entering Bloomingdales. Women came out of nowhere asking where we got the coat? They thought it was real! We enjoyed the look of horror when we said, “Sears in Flagstaff.” One seeks to believe what one dreams about to be true and real – transient pleasure. I still smile at the thought of my baby wrapped in thousands of dollars – what a waste! Too bad there was no eBay when he outgrew it. Hehehe

        • And if you forward to page 93 there’s cool stuff about the Taos “Brand” it’s a T above a water line/lip line. It is modeled after the mountain line that marks a “secret” in the horizon.

          • I would encourage you should read 9 of stones books , that match the hints in the poem . I did…….. I have them all . Been there done that .
            But to come up with hint of richs you would have to say hint of rich 3 times fast. Funny , I think I posted that along time ago.
            Any way The lip line you speak of has a bit more to it then that .
            It is a place where once a year you would ask Mother and Father a favor. No secret there just Mother Earth and Father Sky , Heavy Loads and Water High . But I have seen also That T every where in Taos …

            The Sloane solve I have written out and dated over a year ago. This is a good follow . But still , every one leaves out the first verse .

            IMO … Begin “it” Okay so If you have the first clue you should be able to say Begin what and explain “it”
            In which “it” Is subliminal , and ties concepts of the poem together.
            I posted once before and have stated on Camera when we film my solves about Eric Sloane , and a simple fact that the poem is 9 sentences long and to locate the clues you would need to count how many sentences per stanza and that will tell you where the clues are , NOT WHAT THEY MENT…..
            Finding WWH is great , but I do not feel you can find WWH with out the first Part of the poem un covered. WWH is the place he has gone alone , with his treasures bold , a place he can keep his secret New and Old …. OMG I love when I type out things and confirm my own understanding of the poem….

            No one will know they found the first clue , unless they found the chest. That makes so much more sense to me now.

            Good luck with Sloane. But , the History of that group or people goes so much deeper .


            He wants that bracelt back , has any one given much thought to that ?

            Oh , the rain bird is awesome and Mindy should be pleased with your post . Good stuff …….

            Good Luck all , Im Still looking to Team with Fellow Searchers who are very Serious about this hunt. We are filming it and have been approached all ready to sell our Story line. If this has influenced your life and you would like to share that with us , please email me at

            I have a a great partner who I feel is on the same track as I am and she has been looking for a long time . This offer stands to any searcher again who is serious and has been searching for a long time . Who has done some home work and is not afraid of the woods. All My work is shared entirely with my team . Meaning all my video pictures research and more… Will be at the teams finger tips to use as tools to find the Chest. I’m looking to fill the Team By Spring.

            Im based in Colorado , I have around 30 solves . I have been out looking on over 15 trips . From Northern Montana to New Mexico have been my target areas for along time . Now Im starting to eliminate States based on New Data placed Directly by F in a place I will not tell. But I will tell you there is 9 things there. =)

          • I’ve read all of Sloanes books…I just posted this link because it related to the post. I have gone AS SLOANE in there. I think most all the sloane “hints” to poem are in “Legacy” and the “East-West” catalog he wrote his own foreward for. My reference to “secret” involved the grove in a humans lip right there that the Hereford cattle brand was mottled after so no worries on your dated solve- I only used part of 2 of his works for part of one clue don’t worry not same solve here! I don’t even have a solve still only halfway into a guess 😉

  12. How delicate the Glaze period D olla looks half unearthed. Just looking at it like that ,gives me a thrill of the hunt. Tarry scant with marvel gaze comes to mind… 🙂

    • You can tell by the lines on the object . The periods are very different the way the art work was done on the pot. But it helps when you are the only on who can tell.

  13. Forrest, isn’t there something to be said about an original, knowing that the person who made the art famous touched this painting? Knowing that as you touched it, you were touching the same paint that his/her fingers did? Knowing that the artist created those brush strokes for the very first time on that canvas you now held in your hands?

    For example, would you rather have an Eric Sloane original in your hands, or a print? No matter what frame, I bet you’d want the original, because the man was someone special to you. I would bet you’d pay extra for an original in that case, right? But I guess that’s different, in a way, than originals painted by someone we were emotionally connected to.

    Which brings me to the realization, that art can be an emotion, when, like in Eric Sloane’s case, the original painting contains a piece of Eric’s soul, and that is priceless.

    • I agree and that’s why I so hope the original treasure map is in the chest 🙂 with all his explanations of what each thing he drew meant a true masterpiece that I hope to find one day not so much the gold but what he wrote inside with it all 🙂 I’ll frame it in barn wood off my barn and hang
      Over my bar 🙂

  14. The coats, like the paintings…..they are both fine results from specific arrangements of hair, or brushes, used to create them. From 5 ft away the strokes look the same, the plastic ‘hair’ looks no different from an albino Siberian tigers hair, the wig looks like it’s real…only it curls…it bounces different. It simply has something else to say.
    I think the brushes…their strokes….and even the way a coat is sewn together all say very much about their creator is saying, or trying to tell us. Just as a different frame changes a photograph, or a different binding changes a book. *It involves where one has placed themselves going into storyline. Most any kid that has curled up during a story with a 20lb guilted copy of one grandmas ole fairy tales as a kid knows this. It smells old. That makes the story feel real. It does! The paintings main image can be replicated 100%…but not the same wide, thick, bold strokes used to make it.

    “Oft copies styles are still the artists alone, unique! Just look at Rubens…Valasquez…” etc. 😉 but, if it’s worth the price tag, maybe look closer than 5 ft?
    Somehow I think the woman in the $10k fur commanded a
    Totally different presence about her expensive fur and shopping….I bet the woman from J.C. Penny fur looked warmer…probably couldn’t wait to get home to her husband who bought it for her. Shows what’s on ppls minds….which is important to a merchant….and also to husbands I presume.
    Lol. I need a thick robe made out of hair and a six pack. Wanna go halfsies on some double malt scotch anyone? We can share a snifter if you like 😉

  15. *** if anyone’s interested check out Jeremy’s webpage from the last post. One of his paintings “Coffee Horse” says it all. He painted it using only coffee. The exact same Browns just wouldn’t be the same in a copy. You can copy brown….but you can’t copy coffee. You can’t get the paper to react the same way from the hot water infused “ink” as you can with coffee..Plus you could find the “real” one with your eyes closed if needed. Anyhow- go look at the horse- it’s super cool. Love it Jeremy!!

  16. I am convinced at this point in my life that some people are more “image concious” than others. Me, not so much. I think it’s usually pretty easy to pick those folks out in a crowd. They’re the ones with the latest Mac anything and lease the latest BMW or Lexus. Other kinds of “collectors” put their heart and soul into what they collect, whether that be classic cars or hand knitted wall hangings. These folks tend to be knowledgeable about the things they collect and like sharing that knowledge with others. They might be holding on to something that may be more valuable to them than money can buy. Then there’s people like me that see things as commodities for the most part. I appreciate a great photo and have been told I have a good eye when it comes to composition. But I look at cars and computers as throw away consumer items, as most of them devalue so quickly. In my mind it’s simply good marketing along with inflated perceived value that gets folks to part with their hard earned cash.

    If you like something and can afford it, buy it. If you choose not to spend your money that way, enjoy it from afar. It’s simply a matter of “different strokes for different folks.”

    • ^^ swot…
      What do you think made F choose the painters he did? What was “IT” that was contained in Gaspard, Fechin, Sloane etc. Certainly it wasn’t just friendships. There are better friends he didn’t record into the annals of time, and more skilled artists not on how walls…. For some reason they had a certain “IT” for forrest I think maybe this post screams it like a turkey’s gobble before thanksgiving. It knows. Haha

      • I would assume due to the connection by beauty and then need for more. By that I mean more knowledge .
        And the connection through time , that forged that community in Taos. Sharpe has one intresting connection.
        Where , and when I feel could be a more direct understanding.

        Oh and I was not offended by the solve you had posted . My words don’t always come out correctly when I type. I was only encouraging you to continue to learn about Hindriches, Eric Sloane’s Real Name. I got it by saying hidden rich 3 times fast. Which I felt was very childish .
        But I like the invisible ink concept. Maybe its more of a invisible word , but there is one old way to make words appear that where out of focus. =)

        I think you will figure that out pretty easy. You are way smarter then I

    • SWOT – consumable items – meant not to last. I look from afar – too old to care and too weak to have ‘luggage’. Window shopping can be more enjoyable than purchase shopping. and one can become more outsmarting in marketing to outwit the sales people. I still have just a few items left including prints, photographs of the past life, and a small drawer with trinkets surrounding an arrowhead and a mammoth tusk sliver 🙂 The only thing that lasts is the memory of the people in your life and the pleasure you have knowing you lived a life of righteousness. Everything else eventually moves on – 50 dollars 🙂

  17. Or possibly we could get in a lengthy discussion about signatures and how people even change up their own but you can still tell whose whom? F might get a hoot out of it… Anyone…? anyone….?

  18. John Movers is a unlisted artist with no track record.

    Anything over $5K is thought to be in the majors and falls into investment art.

    On another thought. Does Fenn get $500 to $1K for selling the work?

    • Rick, are you looking at John Moyers or John Movers? From what I have found, John Moyers is a talented western artist. There are many talented artists out there and if one of them catches the eye of a prominent gallery who will promote their work, they may become famous and their work sought after. Marketing frequently works but It still is pretty chancy buying art for investment purposes unless you really know what you are doing. 🙂

  19. Interesting question Forrest Fenn, but then I wonder about “value” on a lot of stuff, like cars, wine, shoes, $50,000 dogs, purses, autographs, and loads of other things. Although I have to admit that if I was given the chance I’m sure I would go into debt to spend 5 more years with my fine dog Blue even though everyone else probably wouldn’t spend a nickel.

  20. I’ve always been a bit conflicted about the buying and selling of art objects. It seems to me that the experience of art is diminished in the process of monetizing it. I guess possession is an experience, but to my mind, the greatest joy is in the process.

  21. Hi Forrest, Art is about emotion, the analogy of the coats was about ego, not art. School children have created great art, and they are still unknown.

    • James I agree…
      I was just typing up a similar analogy when I saw your comment.
      IMO, art can depict and create emotion.
      I also believe the coat analogy is about “ego”, so perhaps the middle ground or compromise is “value or worth” one places on the object.
      Ego: a person’s sense of self-esteem or self-importance.
      Value: a person’s principles or standards of behavior; one’s judgment of what is important in life.
      For example… it could be similar to a parent’s value of their child’s artwork being priceless to them… The emotion is felt as well as visually appreciated.

      • Art can be about emotion or about ego – depends on whether you buy it for yourself and visual pleasure or you buy it to impress others with your estimated mega wealth in your mc mansion. Depends on the person – but I agree in the context above it is given that art is about emotion and other things – coats – about possessions and ego. Good call IMO

  22. Now days nearly everything is computer designed and mass marketed. The experience of human creativity, genius and virtuosity is something rare and valuable. Someone put their heart and soul into it. You can feel it resonate with life. That’s why you appreciate the genuine article.

  23. If you like cowboy art and cartoons, you should check out Dino Cornay. He is a Kansas State Graduate that studiied animal science and not art. He is self taught. You can see his work at I think you will find him interesting.

      • That’s exactly right Cholly –

        Marcus fired Frank Lloyd Wright and it goes to show that the difference between greatness and not – is very little – but very real.

      • Cholly, your impression of the house is completely opposite of my impression. I see the pictures and see the beautiful woodwork and clean lines and say what a beautiful house. Opposing views, just goes to prove Mr. Fenn’s point “Art as an Emotion.”

        • @BW Don’t get me wrong! I’m just jaded after being in the business for so long, I know what a potential buyer would feel about the kitchen (the oven is original) and the floor plan is to confining. The old paneling could be recycled and used some where, no need to take to the dump but it’s probably why the home isn’t selling, besides being a pocket listing and not getting the exposure. I don’t know the market there, prob. has to do with the price more than anything else….

  24. Mr. Fenn, I hope you will read this and respond with a comment. I went to the Matteucci Gallery (Fenn Galleries) website and viewed the Gallery garden pictures. Was this garden your handy work, and did you acquire all the lovely statues or were they brought in later? No wonder you had a booming business. I would pay just to walk the garden pathways. Just stunning!

  25. John Movers is a unlisted artist with no track record.

    A artist should have 100 to 200 works, as a body of works. then at least 20 to 30 in auctions sales.

    As a artist he’s good, weak on folds which are super hard to paint.

    Anything over $5K is thought to be in the majors and falls into investment art.

    On another thought. Does Fenn make $500 to $1K for selling the work?

    So for $6500 I can sit on a painting that might drop in value or will take 2o years to revalue for a profit?

    Investment Partnerships are created to poll $100K or more together on major art works. At $6500 that’s a single investor coming in.

    Rather search for a painting, buy it for a few dollars and resell it for a bigger bang…………

    Like a Joni Falk I bought for $100 and can resell it for $1700. Total time spent 8 hours………..

    Fenn’s write up struck me as a sales pitch with long term investing in mind.

    Nothing to do about recovering art work.

    You recover art he’s out of a job:)

  26. Thanks for this scrapbook, Forrest. I love the ponderous look that John Moyers captured on the Chief’s face and in his eyes. He is a very talented artist. I also love the emotion that Ilya Repin captured in the Religious Procession. I love even more all of the feelings that Ilya created in his painting of the “Reply of the Zaporozhian Cossacks”. You might need to look it up on Wikipedia. It’s awesome. It’s one of my favorite paintings…and I know very little about art. I’m sure I could have added a few choice words to the Cossack’s text myself. LOL!

  27. When I squint my eyes I don’t see the Chief’s blanket, I can only notice that he is looking into the fading afternoon sun…that’s priceless. The Repin art does absolutely nothing for me, so if I posilutely HAD to purchase something of his it would be a print. Just too maudlin for me. Just sayin’…

    • Looks interesting jmbguidry. It’s not on Netflix or Amazon streaming yet but it looks like I can watch it on Youtube.

    • Yes jmbguidry–I saw it and it was really fascinating. I was tempted to try and set up a mirror, etc. to see how it worked. I look at paintings much closer now and often wonder if the technique is used more than we think. Its funny that you brought up that movie–I remember wondering what Forrest would think of it when I watched it earlier this year.

      cjinca–I rented the movie on dvd from Netflix if you have trouble seeing it online. Its really worth viewing.

  28. Art about emotion. What about a bronze chest full of artifacts and stuff (haven’t kept track of stated contents)? My place is small – no, tiny. In order to introduce one thing to the abode, I would have to part with something already here. Hmmmm tough decision sometimes. Would I give up my 14 or so Andrew Wyeth prints to accommodate a 10 x 10 x 5 box weighing 42 lbs? I’ve collected Wyeth over 30 years; the artifacts are ? years to me. There has to be middle ground in my tiney tiny abode. Sorry to conclude, I would retain my Wyeths because they carry emotion and memories of my entire life – most prized is “Winds by the Sea.” Indulgence, dear, what middle ground would provide you a place of honor? Perhaps, a weight-loss diet? Beginning with 42 lbs and possible water retention?Then again, the saying, “A picture is worth a thousand words.” or maybe a few pounds. My dream that I hope becomes real is to go to Italy and see the “real” beauty that I delight in photos from other travelers. Alas, I will be home writing until my prose gets an avalanche of genius to provide the travel funds. ff, Italy is great.

  29. Thanks Dal for the post . I’m sure glad that guy from Italy was kind enough to ask those questions , and F gracefully answered. Thanks F.

    As far as the jar found above. Interesting ; Jar # 40 is a very unique piece .
    It is very different then others with it’s vertical bevel in the rim , to add no red in the designs or anywhere else on either the inside or out side surfaces. Only a slight concavity in the vertical profile of the piece just below the lowest framing line.

    For each glaze period there are different names that relate to the variations and form or design styles. The most common for Period D is San Lazaro Polychrome.

    Thanks F for the picture of where that piece was found. Wow , that must had been amazing to un earth ….. How tight was the ground to the pot? Why didn’t it crack as much as some of the other pieces you have un earthed?
    Also, jar 40 and Jar 19 a similar . I understand that cultures were most likely mixed… so would is it possible then that the ancestors from the other villages who influenced this new way of things were excepting both cultures and the pots were a intended direct way to show expectance of this new culture or idea?

    Any way I love that old stuff, I could learn about that all day and never get tired……

    More please Mr. F , Sir. =)

    Boy I hope Im right about that jar. =)

  30. If any Art fans are in my congested State of California… I strongly encourage you to to visit the beautiful and “Free” admission Art Museums of J. Paul Getty. One is off the coast of Malibu, a beautiful place, and the other one is in Westwood, Los Angeles. The old oil tycoon billionaire Getty dedicated his wealth and beautiful places for everyone to see masterpieces for free…. The grounds are also amazing.

    I am sure Forrest would love the Museums too… The Ancient Art from around the World is amazing!! Greek, Italian, etc. Awesome sculptures, paintings, you name it. Each place, you can spend the entire day walking around in a marvel gaze!

  31. hello all! hunch here. hey who cares about art? not me thats for sure….nobody told the wealthy that photography replaced the need to create handmade images. well, i guess its just tradition that keeps the prices stupid high for paintings. makes em feel like a king when the buy an expensive wall hanging. kind of like that credit card commercial where the guy asks..”whats in your wallet?” I always yell back at the TV- “CASH YOU MORON!” of course he cant hear me but it makes me feel better because hes wearing a borrowed suit and tie and saying words that were written for him and in a studio setting. all designed to make you think that you aint nobody til you got one of his credit cards. the hell with that. im sittin here in jeans and t-shirt with enough cash in my wallet to put me in jail for having too much fun and i feel like a king. i’d like to meet that credit card commercial guy one day and ask him this- “whats on your wall?” heh heh heh

  32. I don’t understand art content and valuation but I do enjoy looking at art.
    I guess art is related to supply and demand as well as its content, like most things. But most things can be reproduced unlike art created by mortals who pass on. Did I get that right?

  33. I was walking in a store in deadwood South Dakota I saw a cool painting of a woman on a wall and messaged it to Forrest I told him I wanted it he said Why’ would you spend money on that just go look in the mirror Haha 🙂

  34. f,

    “I’ve been thinking about what Stanley told me so maybe I’ll have to rethink my art emotions. Is there some middle ground, or a good place to compromise? ”

    Middle ground could be a piece done “in the school of” or by an apprentice. Example would be a painting by Abraham Mignon might sell for a few million but a painting by one of his students and signed by Mignon would be worthy 10’s of thousands. Better than ‘middle ground, eh.

    • Or how about an Elmyr de Hory? I just watched a documentary about Elmyr – fascinating and talented forger. I wish I could have purchased one of them from Forrest way back when as it would be worth a lot more today now that Elmyr is considered the most famous art forger of all time. I wonder how many of his paintings are unknowingly still in galleries or museums under some other famous artist’s name? 🙂

  35. Forrest ,

    Art is in the eye of the beholder. What makes a prize piece ? Age , the person who painted it , the colors used in the way the artist arranged them . Like a shade concept never used , or pigment . My point I guess is, I recently purchased a piece , I won’t say where or when one the blog, because I think it would uncover my trail. But I could never afford the real one ; But this one is in a really nice frame , and its a copy. I have had a lot of compliments on this re print .
    I love this re print , due to the fact I could never afford the real one. But , my middle ground would be to educate my friends about the artist and explain this is a re print and why I got it and where . The center is still the artist , and why would we want to keep sucjh beauty away from some one who could not A) afford it
    B) Simply cannot afford the trip or can’t make the trip due to physical impairment.

    The Middle ground Mr. Fenn is that you can provide a market for folks who love art and simply cannot afford to admire , or study it in it’s original setting. This is where I think the re prints are most important. To allow one to dream =) To fulfill there imagination and hearts to expand their will to learn more by this simple gift of kindness. Some thing we all need a time or two in life. =)

  36. I would buy what pleased my eye, and would pay what I believe it’s worth.

    Art is different to each artist.

  37. I’m very curious.. if you look closely at Repin’s “Procession” there are white spots all over the people in the foreground.

    Are they places where the artist’s paint didn’t stick to the canvas ?

    But what a painting ! I see myself in one of those faces…

  38. I wonder if there’s a way of knowing beforehand if ,whoever has found the fourth clue, to know if he, or she has the right clues. I mean would Mr. Fenn hint in any way, shape, or form that indeed they had the correct clues? RC.

    • If he had said “some may have found a million clues, but I can’t be certain” would everyone think that meant there really were a million clues and someone found them? Or just that he has no clue what anybody has found? If he said he had no clue of what anyone has found would that mean no one found any clues? I think the use of “four” is completely distracting in this sentence.

      I also think that it is a pun on itself as “fore/for/four/fore/’fore/ fo’er” is maybe a hint or clue in itself yet unrelated to this sentence. Forrest seems to like to play with fire….so usually, at least in what I read…the very word that is used to distract is actually also the thing itself that it’s distracting from.

      This is, in his words “fun”


      IMO-FO lol

      • Jamie I think what he said was someone solved 4. We know there are 9 right so 5+4=9 that someone skipped the first 5 and solved the last 4 … Curious and curiouser.

        • Yeah. That’s because people keep saying that he said “some may have” , I can’t be certain.

          That’s why I’m pointing it out so people don’t keep inadvertently misleading one another. It’s right on this blog. Go read “forrest gets mail” I can’t believe everyone can even devote this much energy to a discussion but not have read the quote even. I guess I do the same thing but once you do read it substitute and high number in there and you’ll see it can easily just mean “I don’t know what people have solved” it’s misleading because it uses “four” which is over “two” and under “nine”. He hasn’t stated any fact technically at all so I wouldn’t decide he has or base any facts on something that you don’t know.

          • VERBATIM::

            Searchers have come within about 200 feet. Some may have solved the first four clues, but I am not certain.

            Aka- some have been there, they may not have even known they were (as stated prior) some MAY have solved 4 clues I can’t be certain. (I don’t know)

            All that says is people have been really close that didn’t solve all the clues. Maybe some have been close actually did solve clues. I don’t know.

            I don’t see any way that means he said people solved clues!! He literally says “they may have” and ADDs in “I am not certain”

            What is possibly so confusing that 99% of readers just build an entire different sentence jut because he used the words “four clues”? It’s ridiculous. I’m not trying to be rude or on a soapbox I just don’t get where that could possibly even come from any why it is even believed by so many smart people. What am I missing? Is anything perpetuation this besides paranoia and laziness to read the quote? Why is it still going on? I’m dumbfounded most people here are brilliant. I don’t get why they can’t see it understand this. Speechless.

          • Well Jamie, it’s the same reason some insists on using ciphers, and elevations that are in Texas, and burning the book pages, etc. etc.

            What is one person’s folly is another person’s wisdom.

            You’ve been around here awhile, I’m surprised you are surprised about anything that gets posted here.

          • Those frigging crazies!! and the long winded posters too!! sheesh!!! ….next thing you know they’ll be digging in manure and thinking Texas is in the Rockies.

        • Jamie Jamie Jamie

          You know better than that (someone solved the FIRST four clues) If someone solved the first clue “As I have gone alone in there” then they are at the end. IMO

  39. Are there signs that people are getting closer to solving your puzzle? How many clues have people solved now?

    Searchers have come within about 200 feet. Some may have solved the first four clues, but I am not certain. f

    How did they come within about 200 feet? By a random or unrandom process?

    To paraphrase Fenn, the chest won’t be found by accident. Some level of solving has to be taking place……….

  40. If someone had solved 4 clues how would they know, and would Mr.Fenn write something about their solve that only those who had been close would understand it? It boggles my mind that searchers are so close , and yet no treasure is found. We’re those searchers, who may have solved 4 clues, certain about their solve, or were they just guessing? RC.

    • RC, I am sure many people have sent Forrest pictures of where they have been searching. Perhaps one of us sent a picture of what we believe is one of the clues. Forrest wouldn’t know if we had solved the prior clues the way he thought he set them up. Maybe people were guessing what that 4th clue was without solving the other clues, even though Forrest has said you couldn’t or shouldn’t try to do it that way. Forrest has said the clues get easier, but I’m not so sure that is the case, especially if someone has said they thought the 4th clue was HOB or the blaze, happened to be correct, but still haven’t solved the rest of the clues and found the TC. It may seem easier to Forrest to solve the remainder of the clues because he set everything up, but I don’t think it is easier for us! :-).

      • Doesn’t forrest say “he is NOT certain is anyone has solved four” I know that’s what is says in dals post of the transcript. Nowhere does he say anyone has. Maybe you could get within 200ft by solving or by accident. Near a train track or road or landing strip anyone aboard a passing vehicle would be neat. If it was at Denver Airport and clues got you there and F saw a pic of me on the blog at the airport he’d know I was there but not if clues got me there. And he’d know it was not found from the web weather and security cams on the runway. Same as a train station or highway stop. Nobody had to email any solve at all– he says he’s NOT certain if the clues were even solved. That’s the exact opposite of saying they were and someone mailed them to him.
        (???) where am I misunderstanding this…. Lie how can his statement possibly be contorted to mean someone solved clues and he said so? I’ve got to be missing something since so many think this…but I can’t figure out what it is. Can someone please explain how him saying he’s not certain means he is? Was there another interview I missed? Typo? What???? PLEASE. ANYBODY. Can you explain it to me it’s driving me nuts where I’m misinterpreting this communication. Nuts I say. Just help me understand. It’s all I ask.

        • Ummmmm. I think that’s pretty much what I said only using different words. I don’t see anywhere in my response to RC a word about Forrest being certain anyone had solved the first 4 clues. 🙂

        • Jamie, Goofy and others,

          I’m of like mind – saying 4 clues instead of two really doesn’t change anything, as we are not certain that the person that let Forrest know where they were told him how they got there. It might have been a hunch, and IMO, it probably was. Get out the canasta cards.

          Earlier this summer there was a great post by someone (whose name slips my mind) that did some math to show that it was easy for Forrest to know someone was within 200 feet by sending a photo of an easily recognized spot so he knew that they were close – whether of not they knew it.

        • Jamie, I see your point on this. If we put this on the flip side, why would Forrest say four clues and not five clues or three clues. Why would he increase the number of clues solved? Maybe there was discussion about the clues, but didn’t follow through with boots on the ground. We don’t know, but he did elude to four of the clues rather than two. IMO

          • Yeah, but any number he used would elude to something. If I play devils advocate with myself and argue the reverse that he intentionally said “four” and it’s important to the statement then, given context- it would imply that it takes four clues to get within 200 feet….not that anyone has solved them.

            Some have been with in 200 ft and may have solved four clues (to get there) but I don’t know.

            He has already told us others have been close but may not have known the significance anyhow.

            My confusion is where anyone is assuming this means people have solved them when the one part that’s very clear is that he directly says they MAY have solved but he is NOT certain.

            If someone had emailed/told/or otherwise told him the solutions/solved there would be no reason to say “I am not certain” it would end at “some may have solved four”

            I don’t know. I can twist and force “four” to fit as specifically intentional…but only in referring to the location and how many it would take to get there….not the amount ppl have solved. And we already KNEW people have been within 200 ft. So it’s not new news. Maybe someone’s been within 20 feet and solved all nine! He wouldn’t be certain or even know. So four can’t mean anything about the people when it says nothing different if it’s replaced with another number. I don’t know. I just this him saying he’s “NOT” certain cannot be twisted in ANY WAY I CAN IMAGINE AT ALL LOGICALLY to say it means he IS certain, someone did, and that’s what he said. I just can’t even come up with a single context it MIGHT work. It doesn’t even say I MAY NOT be certain. It says “I AM NOT CERTAIN” I have no clue what diggin is saying he went back and changed it…but maybe that’s my confusion. Is that true diggin and where’s the correction cause dal still has it up as “not” so I can’t find what you’re saying at all but if that happened I take it all back and have found my err.

          • Lordy mercy haha I just rem reading something recently where Forrest said he thought someone may have solved 4 clues but wasn’t certain Kinda left everyone going what the heck did that mean haha but then again that’s what the old coot does for fun tantalizes us:-).

        • Sad as it may be. Occam’s razor people. If someone sent Fenn a photo that implied that 4 clues were probably solved to get there–they were solved and very probably much more than that. They would not be there “by accident” and just decided to send Fenn their photos or emails to relay a delightful travelogue to him. Knowing how entranced he would be by their journal.

          • Tamara, I agree. He might have recognized the location as being next to the 4th clue, and the sender didn’t realize where they were, so f said he wasn’t certain they actually solved it.

            Say hob was the Old Faithful Lodge. I just got thru searching for a week, in Dal’s area, didn’t find it, so took a pic of me getting drunk at the lodge, saluting F. I sent it to him. F sees it is the hob-4th clue and THEN F’s statement would be true. (Im just using examples for 4th clue/hob).
            Just one of many open ended scenarios that the poem can create!

        • Jamie I agree, as usual he didn’t say much of anything. And as usual there will be many opinions on what he said. And no doubt many will claim they are the one that has solved four clues. To some this will prove beyond any doubt the chest is in Texas. You seem to be especially upset about other opinions on this topic.

          Searchers have come within about 200 feet. Some may have solved the first four clues, but I am not certain.

          He has already talked about searchers being within 200 feet; nothing new there. In my opinion the remainder of the statement says nothing; sounds like something a politician would say.

          But that statement will provide the yellow brick road to the solution for some in their opinion. And that is fine…’s OK to have different opinions.

          • Agreed Goofy. There is too much of the politician in these Fenn remarks. Guessing how he feels about politicians, perhaps we can prevail upon him to open the toga and reveal his real intent and the blade. There comes a time, after all, when all pretense has been played out and the scores must be settled.

          • Ha goof…I agree. And no, I’m not that upset at the topic although I I have been posting a ton on this and a few other topics. My intention is not that at all…it was only to hear/read/draw out as much dialogue/language on this and and a few other topics I hoped certain people would speak/respond to so as to hear as much of their language as possible as to sort out a few people as far as who was who and who was more than one under different names for my own personal knowledge…but provide relavent and true discussion at the same time so as not to go off topic or lose intergity of subjects themselves. So I do mean what I say and believe it to be relevant and true but also had other motives at the same time as far a which topics I was smothering. Sorry if I seemed ticked. Not my intention.

          • Thanks, I think…. 😉 sometimes I say I’m a dogged dog, but I’ll take honest schrew. I’ll take anything anyone says as long as it’s true.

          • Jamie, Jamie,
            I did not call you a “shrew”. Was it a mistype? A play on words? Freudian slip?
            ;^) “shrewd”

          • Jamie, we try to spot those that post under different names at the same time and nuke them. I would say most of them are spotted fairly quickly and taken care of. But there may be some we haven’t spotted yet. If you or anyone thinks that is going on shoot me an email and I will check; it’s not hard to figure out what’s going on if I have a target.

  41. Jamie, I admire your determination and detective sense!
    Goofy, I love your sense of integrity.
    Man, I’m having a 60’s flashback! Sorry!
    ¥Peace & Love ¥ 🙂

  42. Hmmm – I guess it is that time of year when frustration abounds. This is when I usually bug out and concentrate on the poem. IMO ff would never state anyone being within 200 feet in a close time span of the occurrence- he too clever for that. So someone has been within 200 feet since he made his comment about it being 500 feet which was a while ago. That way it keeps all searchers wondering if it is them! Shall we guess what year it was that someone was 500 feet and what year it was 200 feet?

  43. In economics luxury items that do not follow price elasticity of supply and demand are referred to as Veblen goods. For these items the demand is more proportional to the price instead of inversely proportional. (They will sell better the higher they are priced up to a point). It is often referred to as the “snob, bandwagon, or fad effect”. No doubt Forrest’s friend, Stanley Marcus, felt he was good at targeting that higher price point.

    I am having no success at formulating a solve that I am happy with so I thought I would share something else.

    • IMO – that’s why people by Macs, BMWs and have the latest smart phone – perceived value, where when one compares similar devices using objective data, there is no justification for the higher price.

      (Typed on a hand-me down computer running Fedora Linux.)

  44. Thinking of indian blankets, you can get a nice one from Pendleton for about $200-400. That’s cheaper than a flight to Santa Fe, NM and its Made in the USA

    When the U.S. government ordered the Nez Perce onto reservations in Idaho, Chief Joseph resisted, leading his band toward Canada. Considered a brilliant strategist, he won many battles against great odds. In 1877 he surrendered to save his people from a harsh winter with little food and no blankets. The Chief Joseph design includes Native American symbols of strength and bravery, attributes of this great chief whose courage and determination won him respect in times of peace and war.

    • Speaking of “Nez Perce”…or nose piercing…I find it uncanny how many poem words have a root in “to cut, pierce a hole, etc” maybe the nose knows? The kids certainly had no problem poking George Washingtons. I don’t know if is consider anything ‘buried’ in there but one certainly would need to ‘dig’ to find it.

      As the saying goes “you can pick your friends, and you can pick your nose…but you can’t pick your friends nose” may make it hard to find the chest. -liliphant

  45. I think people buy original art (and artifacts) partially for the investment. Authentic paintings by old masters are way out of my price range so I don’t have to struggle whether to buy a print or an original. The secret to purchasing art is to buy what you like. Original or print. Gifted local artists should be supported and their art displayed proudly.

    As far as the coat conundrum. I think most women would be proud and confident wearing a $1,995 coat. Regardless of the label. Someone who spends $10,000 for a ‘label’ is just a snob flaunting their wealth. I have known struggling salesmen that had real Rolex watches, and I worked for a middle age millionaire that wore a Swatch!

    PS: My coat cost $49.


  46. Until I read about Stanley Marcus as Forrest’s excavating friend and the “greatest merchandiser” I didn’t have much of an opinion of his Neiman Marcus department stores because frankly it’s not prudent on our income to shop where the only thing I can realistically purchase is a $25 chapstick.

    I live in Dallas where Stanley Marcus was born, and know that he is well regarded for his contributions to the community and art museums…that I can afford. He has also become one of my heroes for his groundbreaking
    anti-prejudicial work during the 1950s and 60s at a time when Texas still had remnants of the kkk and other hate groups who were responsible for assassinating President Kennedy.

    Here is an excerpt from Stanley Marcus’s bio:

    “Marcus liked to be recognized for his progressive political viewpoints. In 1966, he defended three teenage boys who were expelled from a Dallas high school for wearing their hair too long. Marcus believed that the boys’ constitutional rights were violated and offered them financial aid to fight the decision in court. Also in the 1960s, Marcus conscientiously retrained his staff to insure that African American customers would receive equal treatment alongside white customers.” His department store was the first to employ African Americans as sales staff rather than back room staff.

    What a man of strong character and Integrity. Today, as a special treat our family enjoyed lunching at the original 1951 Dallas Neiman Marcus dining room. I can afford lunch…and it was delicious. Thanks Stanley…
    for ‘who you were’. Your legacy endures.

    Thanks Forrest for introducing me to the man Stanley Marcus. We are often known by the company we keep, and you keep good company.

  47. I would rather pay 2500 dollars for a basket made by the Tohono Oodham or a pottery vase made by the Acoma than 1500 for something painted by a famous artist in New York – the work of unknown local artists is always more important than the art of some rich self-indulgent pinhead from New York who thinks he’s god and treats people like shit ..

    B ..

  48. We always referred to Neiman Marcus as “Needless Markup.” But, taking Forrest’s closing suggestion (“Maybe I’ll go back and take another look”), I do find that the Chief’s profile in Moyers’ painting is not that dissimilar to the southwestern border of Montana from West Yellowstone to the Lolo National Forest.

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