The Nine Clues…Part Sixty-One


This is the place to discuss the nine clues…For instance:
What are the nine clues…
Is the first clue “Begin it where warm waters halt” ?

748 thoughts on “The Nine Clues…Part Sixty-One

  1. The newest article from his friends by YNP brought up the Lava rock shelf.., has it been said a million times, and I’m just plus one, that wwwh is the Lava river hitting the cold river and halting?… Or all ya’ll waaay past that, since I’ve not been keeping up lol 🙂

    • That is the first time I have read something about lava. Care to elaborate on that line of thought?

      • Hi Chad, in SB #149, ff’s friend says that hoot owl hole (wise?, as they call that run) is just under the Lava rock shelf where they “put in” with their waders and walked downstream to the deeper water where its like 5 ft not 3 where they got in. Anywho, maybe as we’ve all said a zillion times, is wwwh, the web? Or the Lava rock shelf, where years ago, since YNP is a volcano, the hot river that flowed to the Madison, firehole or Gibbon river as the warm waters (Lava) halting when it hit the cold waters and became rock. Is there any of that near Pompeii’s Pillar? Where lewis and Clark trail is? I haven’t been exploring in MT since 2012. I’m jus thinking and have been known to follow many a rabbit trail lol :), as a means to an end. Gotta play my joker!! 🙂

        • And he said he got kicked out of Pompeii twice. The real one? Or just cuz it was closing time and he was still fishing or coming out that way?

        • Again Kym. Google maps will show you the entire Lewis and Clark exp. Route. Remember FF was 79 all most 80 when he did this. Keep your search ideas in that range for his ability to complete it in one afternoon. Do you have TTOTC OR TFTW book to reference? They both have clues throughout. Read slow. FF spells things wrong and uses words not used daily to help you search but you have to watch FF. He’s a sly one.

          • Just finished with FLW. JUST FOR INF for everyone (Travis) this man is a major architect. Including the major Art Gallery in NYC that FF has gone to. He has built in CODY, Wyoming. Thats all I’ll say about him. Good luck. Good info if you know how to use it.

        • WWWH has NOTHING to do with the internet web. I was the first or second person to use wwwh in a post. It was used to not have to key in All the letters , like texting, that’s as close as it gets to having anything to do with the web.

  2. I think that the entire poem is essential to knowing the exact location of Forrest Fenn’s treasure. I have my specifics if anyone is interested. I have not been able to search physically because of money, work, and distance. I have, however, put many of hours into reading the poem over and over, to the point of memorizing it, and I think I might know the exact 9 clues of the poem. Let me know if you are interested.

    • Hey Stephen,

      I’m only interested in the last clue… so fire away. lol
      Why don’t you give us a little taste on how you see the poem. That may help folks if their interested in getting a hold of you. Are you asking for someone to go look for you? There is a topic thread just for that, I believe under ‘ searchers discussion’ maybe that will help.

      • My take on the nine clues are actually the nine sentences of the entire poem. For instance, the first whole stanza (first four lines) are considered to be one complete sentence, combining at least two sentences. When you read it, you read it as one sentence or one thought. The one spot in the poem that drew me to this conclusion was in the Second Stanza. The first 3 lines are one sentence, but then the last line is one complete sentence. (Put in below the home of Brown.) I have literally recognized all nine complete sentences and believe they are specific locations or directions, but some are a little tricky for me due to the fact I have never been out that way. I live in Tennessee. Again, jsut been having fun figuring this out. I am a teacher and knowing English and Grammar, that is how I picked up on the nine sentences. I could be entirely wrong, but that is my take thus far. What do you think?

        • @Stephen, if you can find a way to make it work, it’s at least trying to solve the poem and not taking it for face value. I like the thought. My only thing is the capital letters. They normally would not be in the middle of the sentence like this would pan out. You would have to answer for those. “As I have gone alone in there And with my treasures bold”, just to start, why would the “A” in “And” be capitalized? Maybe it’s in those letters you may find your answer. It’s a good thought though.

          • just a thought, maybe it’s something like the kids in a line story in the book. A knot for each kid. String out the whole thing, knots in certain places, just a thought.

        • Stephen… your at least the fourth Tennessean I have heard of in the chase. Myself included. So at least I know ya’ll will get my dry, warp, sarcastic sense of humor…
          The semicolon or semi-colon (;) is a punctuation mark that separates major sentence elements. A semicolon can be used between two closely related independent clauses, provided they are not already joined by a coordinating conjunction.

          the punctuation mark (;) used to indicate a major division in a sentence where a more distinct separation is felt between clauses or items on a list than is indicated by a comma, as between the two clauses of a compound sentence.
          I keep asking myself… Are there 9 sentences? I’m not an English professor, Yet I read this as a compound sentence, as one… “a sentence with more than one subject or predicate.”

          I have in the past thought, 9 sentences 9 clue… just not sure if that is an accurate statement. So why the semi colon? Is that a hint or a clue in itself?

          Reading stanza 3 seems to be one connecting idea or unit. Maybe two clues. Maybe one place. Maybe we are at half the distance from start to the chest. A comma would have worked just as well here, But it seems that fenn needed to have a more distinct separation… Honestly I’ve given up trying to see what a clue looks like and work on the poem as a whole. Hopefully then, the clues will simply present themselves at the end.

          • Seeker,
            You said- Reading stanza 3 seems to be one connecting idea or unit. Maybe two clues. Maybe one place. Maybe we are at half the distance from start to the chest. A comma would have worked just as well here, But it seems that fenn needed to have a more distinct separation…

            I have an old idea I would like to share that is similar to this. ”The end is ever drawing nigh” is before the semi-colon, I do believe this line has something to do with time. So could it be possible that its half way in your distance of time? Such as drive for 1hour then walk 1hour. If one has the correct starting place it could be approximate distance related to time but not precise, thats why I left this idea behind, but it may help someone in the future.

          • Count,

            I honestly don’t see distance as feet or miles. The poem has always for me, seem to be about time. Example “In there” as in time. “keep my secret ‘where” in time.
            Riches or possibly knowledge..New and Old or past and present. and that is just the first stanza use with this line of thinking.

            So are we to “begin it where” in time? That was one of my premise for the Glacial period, and “I” was self or knowledge of self ~ humans. So I work with the poem to come up with a theory of Human travel from the “Old world to the “New” world by the ice free corridor or WWWH and canyon down. With NFBTFTW as a time period where distance equaled time. Now comes the line you asked about… TEIEDN; and yes I can see the relating to time as everything always come to and end… no exceptions to that rule. It’s just a matter of time.

            ~ ” So could it be possible that its half way in your distance of time? Such as drive for 1hour then walk 1hour. ” IMO absolutely possible, depending on how you read the rest of the poem.
            I have a hard time [ no pun intended ] with step by step from point to point approach because it seems to force a time into a distance needed to be traveled.
            I’m not so sure we need to travel the clues, even though at first read it seems that way. And more to an understanding of what the clues refer to. Of course this seems to contradict searchers indicating the first two clues … and went passed, walked passed the other seven.

            Yet, those references I explain are actual place in this time period, just not explained in this time period. So…

            Some have said this is to complicated a solve. But it does give clues: 1. where to begin. 2. The RM’s and Ice free corridor. 3. The CD. 4. where the end in near in this time period and a physical place… the end of the glacial extension and retreating in today time period. [ comprehensive knowledge of geography?]

            I know that was more than you asked for, but I like to give examples of my thoughts, rather than just making statements. Hoped that helped. Or maybe I hoped it confused you more. lol

          • Seeker,
            I’ve spent a lot of my life studing time, so your concepts and ideas are easy for me to grasp. Which is why I find Forrest comments about hundreds or thousands of years down the road so interasting. IMO time is the big picture that Fenn wants us to understand about the poem but I like you still feel we are missing something. One idea that always comes to mind, is Fenn predicting Wwwh in the future? Atlest, the CD theory would always have that locked down.

          • Count,

            I took about 5 second on the thought of; “Fenn predicting Wwwh in the future?” at one time. I couldn’t think of a single thought that would remotely seem reasonable. At least not for a single clue. But as to what we are talking about, TEIEDN, it does appear to have a future reference. Or it simply could be the end is near where you need to be, in regards to a larger area clue.

            I can read the poem as birth and death… which could also play a roll in new and old, which could relate to the RM’s themselves… which could, well you get the gist. I’m a multiple meanings guy. So not far but to far to walk can mean time or an elevation drop, lets say 100′. But the only way to get to the bottom of that drop is a long way around. No real distance ‘ measured ‘ to travel.. just know where you’re going to.

            Now that I think about the poem as read one way or another… could it be we need to read into all those to links to conclude a single reading/solve?
            What has birth or creation, meaning to death or destruction, mean to geography, mean to clues refer to… The entire poem jumps from past tense to present tense and back again or beginning to end, birth and death etc. ” I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak” even indicates the possibility of time or time spent. The book starts out in the beginning [ youth ] and brings it to the end is near [ present age and the original plan]. If time is not involved, I’ll eat that hat~ barbwire and all.
            But the future as a clue? My mind is not capable to comprehend that thought. Do you have a thought about a future style clue? or a prediction has you said earlier.

          • Seeker,
            Way put me into a spot with this queastion – Do you have a thought about a future style clue? or a prediction has you said earlier.

            If Fenns poem is vaild for any amount of time past the completion of the poem he is making a prediction but how long will his poem be vaild? I believe his WWWH will last for some time if that is right then he’s making that predition within the poem IMO. Or I could be wrong and WWWH has already ceased.

          • Seeker – sorry to be a Johnny-come-lately on this…..
            Several years ago, before The Chase existed, I recall FF pointing out to some friends the inappropriate misplacement of a semicolon and how it really bugged him. That would seem to indicate to me that every punctuation mark in the poem has bearing.

        • I’m with you Stephen. It’s not the more popular thought it seems, but I’ve explored the idea from every angle and count this as one of the few things you can accept with a high degree of probability.

          • 9 sentences? 9 clues? poem as a whole? … same difference I guess. That must put me in the same sinking boat as you two guys…

      • Yea Seeker, as if we all don’t have the exact poem figured out. Me, at least 10 times and many searches.
        Stephen, if you think you’ve got it borrow the money and go get it. After all once you pay them if will leave you with a feww bucks anyhow.
        Good luck guys. Where izzz SPRING?

    • Hi I’m interested in you thoughts on the poem for no other reason than I think I’ve scrapped the barrel cleaned it out and scrapped a few more times with bare bone.
      Or am I being obtuse?

  3. I am about 90% sure it is not in Yellowstone. It is somewhere in New Mexico.

    Reasons for thinking it is in New Mexico.

    1. He wants to be close to the things that matter most to him. History, fishing, and art.

    2. His wife didnt even know he was gone. Montana is a huge trip that would require more hours than can be gained by running an errand.

    2A. A few hours is possible. I am guessing the treasure isn’t that far away from a road. So most of the trip is going back and forth.

    Now, i am not going to say i have a place. I don’t. I have a good idea of where it would be, but i am still putting everything together. I don’t want to move forward with over confidence and be wrong. That being said, when i take my trip, i want to have it narrowed down to a few miles.

    Also, i have seen on here people going crazy about Fenn saying if he told you where Home of Brown was, you would walk right up to the chest. This isn’t a clue. He could literally say that for any of the location clues and someone could find it. This is because the hardest part is you never really know if you have everything. You want to search every nook, but there is always skepticism, always what if i am wrong. Narrowing down the search to one area would let any person figure it out.

    However, i am sure HOB is pretty close to the blaze. So there is that.

    • Travis-
      You’ve made a couple quantum leaps in your assessment. We’ve heard your argument before, many times, as people try to rationalize NM over other states as being the likeliest of places for Forrest to hide his chest. I don’t disagree that NM would be the most convenient but that doesn’t make it any more likely than any of the other states on his map. I feel compelled to correct at least one error in your argument for NM.

      You said:
      His wife didnt even know he was gone.
      Peggy never said she didn’t know Forrest was gone. What she has been quoted as saying is that she didn’t know the chest was gone…
      This is part of the story that Forrest tells about how he sneaked the chest out of his vault without his family noticing. This has nothing to do with Forrest being gone, nor is it tied in any way to Forrest’s ability to be gone for extended periods of time. Forrest took precautions to ensure that no one would notice exactly when he removed it from his vault. In my mind this means he planned the moment he would hide it. It could just as easily have been on a trip to Glacier, Montana as a trip to the Pecos in New Mexico. Let me explain-

      Forrest was on the board of the BB Museum in Cody. He went to annual board meetings in Cody. Look at the reports. You will see that he attended in important years. Cody is 52 miles from Yellowstone and the road between the two goes right through an area east of the park that many searchers have examined in addition to YNP itself. There is absolutely no reason to believe that Forrest would not take a trip from Cody to YNP before or after his annual board meeting at the BB Museum. He loves fishing those rivers. His mom and dad lived up there every summer until their deaths. He visited them regularly. He knows the area like the inside of his jeep. He has written that his heart is there.
      It’s not logical to suggest that he had no time, no will or no chance to go there in 2009 or 2010.

      In 2009 and 2010 Forrest owned, and still owns, a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Purpose built for getting back to rough places as well as comfortable riding on the long stretches of smooth highway between the rough places. He used it to travel the mean dirt two tracks to go looking for artifacts and fishing spots and he also used it to travel long stretches of well paved highway in comfort. After Forrest stopped flying he continued his love for getting up and going hunting, exploring, collecting, buying and visiting. His family is well aware of his ability to toss a few things in the jeep and be gone on a trading/collecting/fishing trip for a few days and more. Forrest is fiercely independent.

      I am not saying the chest is in or around Yellowstone but I am saying that your logic is skewed and there is no reason to rule out Forrest’s ability to get to anywhere he wanted for as long as he wanted without raising suspicion. I think it is sometimes difficult for folks who have a 9-5 job to see how Forrest’s life was different once he left the Air Force. He tossed his watch away. He was not a slave to time or place. He went on trips constantly. His family was quite used to Forrest heading out for a few hours or a few days on a regular basis. For most of his life he flew all over the west, rented a car and drove to the end of the road. When he stopped flying he simply drove. Multiple day absences from his home were a constant event. He was out exploring and having fun as much as possible. He had the desire, the financial means, the character and personality to make this happen. Forrest is a different breed than most of us. Fiercely independent, always looking for adventure and great with people.

      I think it would be foolish to count out any area on his map simply because it would be inexcusable for him to be gone for many days at a time. That was his lifestyle from the time he went out with Donnie to play Lewis and Clark right up to today…

      • I’ve heard those silly arguments too many times but you know Dal they don’t ring a bell with me. I believe you are right, keep searching Wy-o-ming W-h-y is it.

      • That’s your best reply yet, Dal. I’ve given up trying to develop reasons for why he picked the place and instead just focus on the clues.

        I’m only half Forrest’s age and yet it would be impossible to guess where I’d hide a treasure based on my past. During the chase I found a wonderful little spot that I’ve intentional returned to on a few trips, yet it has nothing to do with anything in my life except my kids loved it and we had the best family vacation ever while camping there.

        How could anyone ever guess that place based on my life? Even my own family doesn’t know I’ve returned there a few more times while on a search nearby. It’s a special place to me know because of that one great vacation and yet no one else knows it.

        I think it’s fun to create scenarios for the location and why he picked it, but we just can’t use non-poem based ideas to rule out an area.

      • Dal, in addition to the point you are making. None of us know how often Forrest travels each year nor for how long each trip is. He could still be looking for particular pieces of art for special clients, or merely visiting friends. So Peggey might not get suspicious when Forrest says he needs to go away for a few days to look at a painting or something. And of course he would drive so he could more easily bring it home.

      • Well said Dal. You painted a nice picture with words showing the patterns in Forrest’s life after the Air Force.

        The term weekend warrior is more applicable to a some of us but we’re not complaining since we find time for adventure too.

      • Dal hit the nails on the head (as usual). I do a lot of travelling for work. Some of it is by car and some of it is by plane. Not a bi-plane. Just by a plane. Sometimes I’m gone for days at a time.

        Anyway, I could go on a routine work trip (in my car or in my private plane if I had one) and take a chest with me to hide somewhere. Actually I did something just like that. Nobody knows where it is. Not even my wife. And she doesn’t know exactly when I hid it either.

        So with Forrest’s lifestyle, board meetings, etc. he could have very easily taken the chest on one of his longer (or shorter) trips and Peggy would have never known.

        Just imagine Peggy sitting there reading a book and Forrest packing up for a trip to Cody. He could have wheeled the chest and the contents right on by without her even realizing. If she questioned him about why he needed so many suitcases, he could probably just say something about not knowing which slippers to take so he took them all.

      • Dal,
        I have a question for you, I once read that Forrest kept a red bandanna on the chest while in his vault, can you comfrim this?

        • Forrest did say that he kept it under a red bandana during his plan to make it go away unnoticed but if you want to know where that story is at you’ll have to ask someone other than me. I tend to tell folks they should look at all the materials in the “Media Coverage” section of this blog, take copious notes and jump to their own conclusions.

          • “…It doesn’t matter who you are, it only matters who they think you are,” he tells me. “It’s what I can make you believe…”

            That imo, is exactly the way he wrote the poem… “It’s what I can make you believe…”

            I wonder what the books were that he used in-place of the chest… Clue? hint? hmmm. lol

          • @ Seeker

            I think I know at least one of those books was Catcher in the Rye…JD Salinger kept secrets in Vaults too.

          • Thank you, MartinS for posting that.
            After reading articals again with more knowledge of the chase other things do stick out. For instance Forrest dodged a question about the clues in the form of a story about the madison. I wounder if thats the same reason for the cover of TFTW? Ok, back to the red bandanna, is there more to it then just hiding the secreting of the chest from peggy?

          • Seeker, Interesting quote – It does not matter who you are; it matters who they think you are. I met a few searchers during 2015. They were surprised to hear I am Crowfeast – they thought Crowfeast was Forrest. Hmmm and I wasn’t even trying to see what I could make people believe. Sometimes I think they would believe anything if it sounded good and pictures went with it 🙂

      • Hi Dal,
        Your right on everything you said. Travis, if you count out Montana and Wyoming do at your own PERIL. This poem covers an area that’s hard to even think about. People are trying to rule out states thinking it will help with their solve when indeed it could very well be their demise.
        Dal, I seem to remember that FF made sure that no one new when the TC left his possession. I believe Peggy discovered it gone daysss later. FF had left his vault open and Peggy went in and picked up the cloth that F had covering the TC and found 8 books stacked up and covered in it’s place. Then the search was on. God Bless FF for finding something (the poem) that can keep me awake for days at a time. I think I’m still married, haven’t talked to her in the house for quite a while. But I have part of number 11 solved

        • Where did you hear about the cloth stil left at the house covering 8 books? Was it on an audio or video of Forrest being interviewed?

    • Hi Chesney,

      I was starting to wounder if you were still with us. I was thinking maybe you got snowed in out there somewhere trying to get the rainbow nailed down.

      Welcome back

  4. I wouldn’t discount any possibility involving areas in nearby proximity to Cody, WY……..

    New Mexico remains the region I would hope to explore if it were even remotely possible to do so, however.

  5. There are obvious references to each of the 4 states. I havent heard much with the use of Colorado. The other 3 states, are mentioned by their names by Forrest, over and over, but I dont believe that I have ever heard him say or type the word Colorado. Of course I may have missed something. But if it is anywhere, IMO, it would be in Colorado, just because it is rarely used. I think that there is a trail of clues that make the image of a 9 on a map. Starting from Santa Fe or the Grand Canyon (Depending how you draw your 9’s), head up north to Canada, a big half circle back w/sw, will take you through Montana and yellowstone, and ending near the Border of Co/Wy.
    9 is also not only a number of clues, but I also believe the number 9 is the clue.
    Cat has 9 lives
    On CLoud nine
    Go the whole nine yards
    A stitch in time saves nine
    Possession is 9 tenths of the law.

    Those types of idioms can be tossed into a basket for when you come across something that is directly related to the chase or book.
    (I use Yellowstone as the meaning of Yellowbrick too)

    Example: The movie, the whole nine yards”, has a main character that is named OZ. I think “The Wizard of Oz” is widely observed in the chase universally. So this could be a sort of confirmation that The Wizard of Oz, does have a play in the Chase. Then it routes back to the word “Color” (Wizard of OZ is known for Color also), in which says COLORado.

    That is one many possible ways to use the 9 clues. Once you can nail those little things down, then the bigger picture becomes more clearer. Just like the movie, “The Wizard of OZ.
    Also, the Character OZ in the wizard of OZ has nine different names.
    Oscar Zoroaster Phadrig Isaac Norman Henkle Emmannuel Ambroise Diggs (OZ-PINHEAD)

    There is alot you can do with nine/9. And I havent even used the “nein” anagram yet that is in the first line of the poem. That is why the poem took 15 years to make work. IMO

  6. Hammer,

    Would you have an opinion about: Wet Mountain Valley, Colorado?

    Grape Creek
    Jasper Brown
    Royal Gorge, including that super kids playground area
    DeWeese Reservoir
    Arkansa River

    E T C

    Totally agree with the “Nine” as a key hint.


    • SL~ That is where I pretty much started my search. If you read the poem as Deweese reservoir is the Blaze you can follow the rest of the poem on a map all the way down to Rye Colorado. That area has been the best place IMO to gather info. I don’t think it is in Rye/CO city, but there is alot of sublte chase ideas there. I’ve search the area pretty thoroughly, and I do believe that some answers that we are looking for are hiding in the direct area.

  7. I have ideas about Firehole River area, Yellowstone River area, and for the Colorado one I thought of the unsinkable Molly Brown in Leadville, Colorado, but my first idea ever before reading the books was in Colorado near the Arkansas River and Brown’s Canyon. I got to say this is fun being able to just talk about this with others. Whoever is in Tennessee, it would be cool to acutally meet with you guys and maybe go on a venture together for the treasure. I can tell you that I don’t have all clues firgured out, but I feel that aot of the first ones connect in some form or fashion. I will tell you that pertaining to the Firehole River, the first clue being the first complete sentence, which is the first entire stanza of the poem, very well makes me start the hunt at the very place where he went alone and that is the geyser pool he used to take a bath in while in west yellowstone. He says it is a special place where he hid it, so that was my thought leading me to a starting point at Firehole River. Just curious of others thoughts. Again, just having fun with this.

    • Stephen, I have always thought Fenn’s bathing spot was the first clue in the poem near Ojo Caliente in the Firehole River WWWH, but I also thought it was the place the treasure was, that’s why I went swimming there in the fall to find out, well maybe it’s just the begin point IMO.

      • Without ever being there , I imagine that location helping the reader of the poem recognize the beginning of where to start in the U.S., which narrows it down to one small area rather than jumping around to different states. The next complete sentence that I come to, clue 2 for me, was “begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down not far but to far to walk.” To me that could mean begin it from that specific bathing spot or could the warm waters could represent the name Firehole River. Fire being warm, but in reality I read on other websites that the Firehole River isn’t warm. Not sure about that. Anyways, Where the Firehole River halts was where I looked on google maps at it stopping where the Madison River is. I noticed through pictures and videos of the Firehole River that the river flows into the Madison and not the other way around. That is only what I think I saw. “Put in below the home of Brown”, I could only think of Brown trout, but maybe the Madison is big on Brown trout and their is a put in below the Madison. Just my thoughts thus far with that idea. I still think the next stanza has something to do with either a waterfall or creek bed that may or may not have water flowing, depending on someone’s interpretation.

      • The temperature varies greatly in the Firehole River during the day & through the seasons. You can find the graphs here:
        Keep in mind you can change the dates on USGS website to see further back.
        I also read somewhere that the Firehole has heated up around 10 deg from many years ago, how many, I don’t know.
        I knew what I was getting into before I went swimming. Made many videos & had allot of fun. About 35′ from Ojo under water, there is a UFO shaped rock in the middle of the river with a diameter of about 3-1/2′ & a stem to the ground less than a foot in diameter.
        The Firehole converges with the Gibbon to create the Madison which flows towards West Yellowstone. There are a few creeks in this area that are worth noting including no named ones.
        I considered Take it in the canyon down to be the Firehole Canyon.

        • I also thought canyon down referred to canyon drive next to firehole river being the next line mentions not far but to far to walk….meaning you may have to drive a short distance….I would love to see an extensive map all around the fire hole river to view any specific put ins, creeks, unamed or named roads to drive or bike or walk, etc. However, the other version of the poem leading me to Yellowstone river I have accumulated more details.

  8. Tarry scant with marvel gaze means, Don’t stop and stare, just take the chest and leave in peace.

  9. Subscribe.

    Regarding WWWH as a clue 1. here’s one thought… Begin it where the war/arm waters halt. Perhaps a firearm or war club; the site of an ancient battle or gun fight.

  10. Just trying to get other people point of view here & would like to see if anyone else came to the same conclusion as me.
    My latest solve uses these lines, phrases & words as the nine clues.

    1st clue – Begin it where warm waters halt (Got it)
    2nd clue – And take it in the canyon down (Got it)
    3rd clue – Put in below the home of Brown (Not sure what Brown is)
    4th clue – From there it’s no place for the meek (Got it)
    5th clue – The end is ever drawing nigh (Got it)
    6th clue – There’ll be no paddle up your creek (Got it)
    7th clue – Just heavy loads (Got it)
    8th clue – water high (Got it)
    9th clue – blaze (Not sure what this is)

    As you can see I am missing Brown like most of us. I gave up on it & started on the other clues to see if it would bring me back to first couple of clues & it did. Whatever THOB is, I haven’t a clue but I suspect it’s a change of direction & Fenn, maybe the only one who knows what it really means.
    The blaze, I don’t think it can be figured out until you have BOTG.
    All my opinion.

      • Donna, I am glad you agree. It shows me you are on the right path. I don’t think it’s luck, chance or coincidence we have the 9 clues. We have crossed paths in Montana at different times last year & maybe in spring we can meet & have that beer together in West Yellowstone or the CL. I hope to be there mid June.
        Seeing your the only that has agreed, although there are many lurking, what brings you to this conclusion?

        • Actually Jake, I too am looking hard into MT. To me, there are just too many interesting connections to what Fenn says and the region. Uncanny in ways, that shows he knows the area, it’s history and loves it to be his resting place.

          I noticed you mentioned June2016 timeframe. I think my wife and I are planning a Spring trip back up there from NM, be a use we both believe that “brave and in the cold”, represents a seasonal tike, maybe late winter/early spring or late fall/early winter.

          Using these time periods also allows the seeker to probably view the landscape with minimal brush to work through while searching. I believe one could even acieve a “tarry scant” in the process.

          So ahain, we all have our own perceptions, but d they meet what F means with the poem.

          Would love to have a drink if we happen to cross paths, drop me a note to my email of zosorocks at rocketmail for com.

          Who knows, right? Cheers!

          • As someone else put in a post….”your effort will be worth the cold. “Brave the cold”..IMO….same gust of the phrase.

            But I do stand corrected.


          • Tim,
            Zoso, what is the real story behind Stairway To Heaven.
            It took me a while to crack this song. I would like to hear your thoughts.

            Yes, I know it is in MT. All the hints point to the area. I know where the treasure is within a 50′ area. The poem leads you right to it. You cannot go left, right or straight ahead when you are there. Just walk along the heavy loads to the blaze. You are in a confined area. There is only one way in & one way out. I have cracked the key word in the poem & probably would not have been able to do this if I had not been there. I took extensive HD video on my trip & reviewed every inch of all the video. It took a month to go over all the video & freaked out when I realized I was at the exact spot where Forrest was in one of the pictures in his book. Exact spot where I stopped to have a beer & smoke on the way to Bozeman to catch a flight back home. I only stopped once on that 90+ mile trip & just happened to be at a very key area that will lead you to the treasure. I hope to throw a few back with you & your wife somewhere in West Yellowstone glaring at all the gold. I know I will catch allot of flack for saying I know where it is but I have to say that the poem is straight forward except for the one word that is key. I can give Forrest the coordinates where he hid the treasure but my mom already did this. Maybe he will just go & get it for her so no one else gets hurt. Randy is weighing heavily in all our minds.

    • What is BOTG? I am not sure what those acronyms mean. I like your ideas, but for some strong reason I still think that the nine clues are the nine sentences. I know these are movies, but clips like National Treasure and even the Goonies, they thought that they were at the end of it partially through the map, but then realized that they had to finish it to actually reach the destination. THOB is puzzling to figure out, but Forrest Fenn in his interviews acts as if the poem is so simple if you just read it over and over. That is why I either think that THOB has to be either the name of a Canyon, a last name of someone, or even Brown trout, and we all know the area where he used to fish for Brown trout after reading the book. This is fun to discuss. Thank you are for making this exciting and thank you Mr. Fenn and Dal.

      • Hello Stephen. It stand for “Boots on the ground.” Walking to the destination to which one believes the treasure chest will be found.

      • BOTG – is a good question Stephen………..

        The expression “boots on the ground” has an extended military-jargon history. It certainly dates back at least to British officer Robert Grainger Ker Thompson, strategist of the British counter-insurgency efforts against the Malayan National Liberation Army during the Malayan Emergency, 1948-1960 (see entry). The term is also associated with General William Westmoreland and the United States’ intervention in Vietnam, particularly the large force increase from 1965-1968.

        Perhaps some here don’t think the above is a clue – I do think it is………. 🙂

        • How did BOTG/Boots on the ground term get started on the chase/blog(s)? Do you know? When I lurked for over a year, I’ve seen it, but never understood how it came to be. I feel it’s something one must do, but wondered how it all started; whom said it. This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

          • pdenver & all.
            Sooner or later (hopefully when the weather is forgiving) you have to put boots on the ground to either eliminate an area or confirm certain clues that you have in mind or the ultimate, finding the prize. Either way, you cannot be totally successful without being there. Unless of course, you have someone else putting BOTG for you. BOTG should be the last stage of your research or search IMO. You should have already figured out the other 8 clues.

          • JL,
            I consider the 9th clue to be the blaze & there is no way you will be able to find it unless your physically searching on the ground even though F didn’t answer the Q about the blaze being in the poem. My hunch this time is rock solid (literally) all the way around, but let’s face it, you never know till you get there. We all have a hunch, because we don’t have the chest, right?

          • Thank you pdenver for your postings. I learn allot from all the postings I read here & logical, straight forward thinking goes a long way towards the prize IMO.

          • You’re welcome, Jake. I, too, have enjoyed everyone’s postings. Watching the thought process is amazing. It appears logic and straightforwardness are key ingredients to a successful outcome. This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

      • “I could go right straight to it” well of course he could, he knows exactly where he put it.

    • Jake, in reference to your post in January, have you consider HOB to be where brown trout were introduced in to the western US, back in 1890 I think. Wikipedia says “Upper Firehole River’ Someone else has posted that they were introduced into the Nez Pearce Creek, either way, it puts you going “down” “Firehole Canyon”. If you haven’t read my solve, go to Others Adventures” “A Redneck From Texas…”. IMO its very near Firehole Falls.

      • I’ve read your solve & is very interesting.
        The BT was introduced in Nez P back then.
        You need to go down past the falls to the Madison where F put in & then go from there.
        No one to my knowledge has solved the key word which I have locked up in my thoughts.
        If you can get by the HOB & send me an email what you think is the key word which I already know, then maybe, possibly, think there may be a god but I don’t think so IMO.

  11. Forgive me if this has been suggested by others. “Heavy loads and water high.” Heard the expression, “Take a load off your feet,”? Perhaps walking a distance and “water high” being the sweat above the brow. Might associate with, “I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.” This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

    • Heavy loads (physical) and water high (spiritual) IMO.

      Tired (past) and weak (future)

      Kidneys are past and future in energy medicine. Illness can be fear (dis-ease) of one of those aspects. Right being a more physical/external source and left beign a more emotional/internal blockage.

      Anyone know which kidney Forrest lost to cancer? Right or left?

      • Which kidney? You can’t be serious! Leave the poor man a shred of dignity and privacy.

        • 100% !!

          Brings a whole new meaning to… “throw us a bone”
          Dissect every portion of his life, family and friends… living and dead. Now an autopsy. Five years, now going on six, interviews, Q&A’s, e-mails answered, radio and TV shows, a second book, SB’s, comments and statements, Book signing and other get together, extra clues… apparently that’s not enough.

      • Thank you for your reply 23kachinas. I will take your comment under consideration. I’d like to continue with your thoughts and add an opinion, along with yours, if I may.

        Your opinion suggests the following:

        ‘Heavy loads (physical) and water high (spiritual) IMO
        ‘Tired (past) and weak (future)’

        Would it be possible that heavy loads (physical) and water high (spiritual) could be the distance walked in a special place? Tired (past) could be both past and present. If I may clarify this comment. Walking a distance, one may start out full of energy, but depending on the distance, it could tire one out, become weak, on their return. Hence, could possibly say, “I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak.”

        Once more, this is an opinion, offered as a thought.

        • Ya know ::the end is ever drawing nigh might be connected with heavy loads and water high, if you think about it, you can’t get up this crick for two reasons heavy loads and water hi. OK so now what do we do,,? we got to get to the end of that place where we are blocked. Ever is interesting so let’s say that means reve like reverse. Maybe put the car in reverse and go around the blockage. Possibly a forest service rd. No place for the meek:: does not meet public standards?? Just thinking aloud.

          • Thank you for your reply A. If I may add to your opinion. I , too, feel “The end is ever drawing nigh” is connected to “heavy loads and water high.” Also, “There’ll be no paddle up your creek,” could mean water is nearby, not necessarily having to enter it. Depending on time, it could be dry. Creek also means a narrow or winding passage, along with other meanings. This may be something to ponder.

            This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

        • To me blaze is the sun and waters high is the clouds. My grandpa was 93 and always called clouds water high.. Might be totally wrong thinking sorta spiritually but who knows.. Also thought of Jim Brown and Cleveland NM.. Like other said without BOTG who knows. Like others when I came across the poem 48 hours ago I had no intent to actually try to solve it. 6 hours sleep past 48 hours now Im in the chase as well as you guys. Its addicting for sure, and the poem haunts you.

      • 23k, I’m not sure if he indicated which kidney. I assumed it was the left since the cancer had spread near the heart.

        • Hello lia. Would you be so kind to guide me where it’s mentioned how the cancer spread near his heart, please. I either missed or don’t recall this information. Thank you.

          • Pdenver, i’m sorry I don’t have the books with me. In one of the memoirs forrest discusses his cancer diagnosis and I believe he mentions that he waited too long and it had spread to the vena cava.

            I’ll post the exact reference later

        • Thank you for your recent reply lia. I have found for which you spoke. TTOTC, “Ode To Peggy Jean,” page 141. ‘I waited too long; my inferior vena cava was imbedded with a hateful, chewing malignancy.’ I truly do appreciate your help.

          • Pdenver, that’s a good lead to chase. Lots of possible applications for “interior vena cava” … Hollow vein in cave, Caves, Heart Lake in YNP holds record for largest brown trout, heart shaped lakes etc. and how about a nod to Dr Taylor for a saving his life. If you search Mt, Taylors fork/Qtr Circle 9 ranch, Lincoln Mountain with the small air strip is a perfect place to search. It’s on my summer list.

          • The inferior vena cava takes the blood from the lower body to the heart. If you look at a picture of the body you will see that the ivc is right next to the kidney. I don’t think it had anything to do with his heart.

        • Thank you for your reply lia. Your suggestions are commendable. If I may add an opinion. Could it possibly suggest a direction in path for which one must travel? The blood traveling up the inferior vena cava, loops around, and returns back down.

          Merriam-Webster dictionary:

          Inferior (adjective)- situated below and closer to the feet than another and especially another similar part of an upright body especially of a human being.

          “Look quickly down, your quest to cease,”?

          This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

  12. If you want to use a clue that Forrest stated on TV, about the treasure not being at a dam or something. You can use “water halts” as a body of water that is not made because of a Dam. That would mean that the water is still. water that is not moving, or halted is still-water. Also “Steel” can be used for Heavy Loads and water high. Since Bridges are usually made of steel. I would use “Stillwater” as a hint, since that is where history began with the Land-run near present day Stillwater OK.

    I dont think Stillwater is the place to physically look for the chest, but I think there are some answers from there.

    John Smith is from Stillwater and Is a 2 time Olympic Champion Wrestler

    Chester Gould is from there too
    And many other things that are very chase related.

    I am posting this, just to get new ideas for folks. It is definitely outside of the Rockies, but there is so much rich history there.

    I think this chase has a big connection with Native American History, and Oklahoma shares a large portion of that. “The trail of tears” ended in Oklahoma. The Indian Removal act started 100 years before Fenn was born. Fenn stated he was born 100 years too late. This could be a connection to that unorthodox quote. IMO

    Just trying to stir up some new ideas for the clues, and hopefully this will help. Just think outside the box(Rockies) for an answer.

    Still, Steel, Steal, Tears

    It is fun to think of ideas like this. It is using your imagination to paint the big picture.

  13. Gypsy? Dal? Any serious Montana searcher interested in putting together a solution and searching Madison River at Jack Creek Basin in late June?

    Area is loaded with history, fishing, canyon, small caves & boulders.
    I’ve exhausted other ideas and moving on to a known Native American & fossil rich site in that alluvial plain where L&C passed. I Have already done considerable research to qualify the area. My family gave up, and I don’t want to search grizz, rattler country without a partner. Lia

    • Are you talking about Madison River near the Firehole River? If so, I have a strong feeling about that area as well. I am not sure where Jack Creek is being that I have never been there.

      • Hey Stephen, I love the Firehole area, but no I was discussing an area further north closer to Ennis Montana with both fly fishing historical ties. Good luck.

      • JL, (Dal, gypsy, et al.)
        I don’t live there but know the area and have a brother who guides on the Madison; I’ve completed 3 yrs research; a bit flexible on dates; will watch snow melt and water velocity before traveling. Might go late May if an early spring arrives as it did last year.

        Access to most FS roads and trails in Greater Yellowstone area don’t open until Memorial weekend; I like to check with FS Rangers about known carcasses, grizzlys, and Cougars. Also putting a solution together for the Helmet canyon from the saddle down to bear creek Trail head. Lots of bears so impt to have a group of serious adults only.

        • I am usually by myself, last year I walked right into a sow and three cubs on a trail by West Yellowstone. Gets your adrenaline going when you hear one of them cubs bawl and they are only about 15 yards away. No matter how well you keep an eye out it seems they just blend in so well that sometimes you are right in the thick of it. I am going to go earlier I think but if I happen to be there later I would be interested. jl

          • I stayed very still and loosened my 41 mag in its holster. Fortunately I did not end up between the cubs and mom and they left after mom determined I was not a threat.

          • Cool. A little luck there too. With 3 cubs, it would have been easy to scare mama into thinking that you were a threat.

          • Windy City,
            I have never put much faith in the bear spray. I have been traveling the back country for 40 years and that was not my first close encounter with a bear. I have never had to use the pistol but it gives me more peace of mind then the spray. That bear encounter was actually the highlight of my whole summer, I really enjoy nature up close like that. I just plan for the worst and hope for the best.
            I live in a windy city, maybe you do to? Right now its howling about 25mi. an hr.

          • I was born and raised in Chicago. I live in suburban Saint Louis, MO. now due to a job transfer back in 1993. To me, Chicago will always be home.

        • Lia, I just googled Sphinx mountain. Amongst the descriptions: “Its steep vertical drop plummets thousands of feet into a well-known grizzly bear stronghold.” Not your average walk in the park for sure!

          • 3rocks,
            Sphinx mountain is spectacular but is way too far, steep, and deep in grizz country. I’m thinking of solutions which begin on map/GE below the Helmet’s easier approach ending near FS cabin near Bear creek trail.
            I think Jack creek basin confluence to Madison River area south of Blaze Mountain holds promise for reasons I won’t say publicly.

            It’s funny, 3 years ago I wouldn’t have disclosed my search areas, now we all just hope anyone finds it.

  14. hello just wondering has anyone thought about putting there ttotc book in the oven opened up on the poem page. sound,s like a bad idea. still tempted

  15. “Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that
    something else is more important than fear.”
    ― Ambrose Redmoon


  16. Anyone use a simple groundhogs day in their solve? Seeing a shadow, and spring awaiting type stuff. It may give an insight on how to read the poem using the town of Punxsutawney Pennsylvania. And that you need to read the poem using puns and stuff. Seems logical to think about

  17. Dal, (or anyone else)

    In the Cheat Sheet section it has been said by ff to start at the beginning, can you provide where that came from I have looked and cannot find it in any of the blogs, audio or videos.


  18. hello has anyone figured out the hidden letters on pg 133 . they are right in the middle. that is why i considered the oven (Seeker)

    • Boy I need to get the book so I can keep up with all discussions of 1000’s of clues in it.
      If you found the hidden letters on the page, why would you need to bake the book at 360 degrees for 45mins, and bast with lemon juice every 15 mins.?

      Here was another idea… the binding of the book has stitching on some pages and glue on others. One idea was to heat the glue, remove the pages and line up the remaining pages that will tell how to locate the chest.
      In the picture with the fighter jet bombing the bunker, there’s a pair of sunglasses near the palm tree. That’s definitely a clue, right?

      I always find it interesting the lengths folks will go to find a clue… right, wrong or indifferent, it’s interesting.

      Here’s a simple thought. in the story ‘ looking for L&C’ there is a view from a mountain top… clue / hint ? or just a nice memory.

      • Seeker,
        Here’s a bone for the dog.
        If you look closely at the top picture on pg 58 & the bottom pic on pg 62.
        You will notice that the pic on 58 is to the right slightly from pic 62 if you look very closely at the landscape. I have an idea where this pic was taken in the Madison’s near Kirkwood Ridge.
        What do you think?

        • I don’t have the book, yet. I was going by memory when a friend loaned me the book to read. So I don’t have all the details you mentioned.
          But now I’ll have to check out Kirkwood Ridge, to see what you see.

        • If one can find the exact location of the “secret fishing hole”, the one may be able to know what is in Fenn’s heart….??

          If you get my point, it literally could be anywhere.

          A recent thought came to me…and that is, how subtle is subtle. Or bold is his – for a clue to be? Are we just chasing our tales and although Forrest maybe be intrigued and chuckling, I wonder how he really is paying attention to see how well the seekers are coming along.

          We already know he reads some of these blogs at times.

          Subtle to me….”it” (clue) is there, but not taken understood at first read, but maybe a second or third time.


        • hey Jake, you have to be carefull there on pg 62. big time photoshopped.the clouds chop off some of the mountains and landscape. lol, with that said, I believe I know where that is too. Even have pictures of the spot. Just, more trees and bushes 58 clouds are also photoshopped, but the picture is off the right a little.

          • Those photos are not Photoshopped at all charlie. The pic on pg 58 is zoomed in slightly more than pg 62. Take a good look at the clouds & mountains, you will see that these photos have been digitized from an old camera obviously & there is no Photoshop here in my professional imaging & printing opinion which I have 20+ years experience in.

      • Absolutely seeker the sunglasses represent shady business that has to be done under the cover of dark. I can’t believe you didn’t know that!

    • I don’t think there are menu clues that will help in the chase that may be found in TTOTC and even in TFTW. What I do like to look at is Forest web site (which has a lot of stuff from thoes books there), West Yellowstone new site(articles from 2008, which are also stories from thoes books indicating that some stories from TTOTC were written 2 years apart) and then of course TTOTC. Forrest made a comment about the chest being in a place that is “his alone”, with the info above he tells where this location is(I don’t believe the chest is in the location he mentions). You need one other book that I have not read to find the precise location and I have not read that book yet.

      • Didn’t Forrest say that all that was needed was the poem? I’m not doubting that some extra reading would help, just clarifying that outside reading isn’t required to succeed.

        As a matter of fact, I sent away for Flywater the other week and just finished reading it today. Almost every page I turned was instant hidey place eye candy. I could see the chest being stashed in nearly every photo. Made me want to pack up and head West again, but then I looked outside and remembered it’s winter.

      • I’ve came this far I might aswell explain the above – This can be found on MW
        Mr. Fenn, Did you choose the hiding location purely because it was special to you, or were there other considerations? (I’m not talking about logistics like transporting yourself there, ease of access, not being spotted). ~Michael Monroe

        Thanks Michael. The spot where I hid the treasure was in my mind from the time I first started thinking about the chase. It is special to me and there was never another consideration. I was going to make it work no matter what. In my reverie I often find myself stealing away to that place and I will always consider it to be mine alone.f

        This can be found on West Yellowstone news site(this is almost the same as in TTOTC) –
        Those great places on the Firehole, which were personal secrets to me then, are now busy with the flourish of fishermen and women who cast a midge or floating cadis upon the same waters, never knowing I had been there, or even caring yes or no. I always thought that space was mine alone, and many of the memories there bred are even now still so personal that they exclude the intrusion of strangers. How dare they do that?

        In the book he edits out Firehole River (I would post it but I don’t have my book on me and its not one of the chapthers Fenn posted on his site) why would he do that? And can these places that his says are his alone, can they be the same spot?

        • “Those great places, which were personal secrets to me then, are now busy with the flourish of fishermen and women who cast a midge or floating cadis upon those same waters, ever knowing….” p125 TTOTC

          He did indeed edit out Firehole. Good catch!

  19. Subscribing….moderation check. No use posting interesting info or dangerous intel if Dal or Goofy get first crack at it…wink wink.

  20. I’ve been wondering for quite some time now how the poem to earth translates.. like, can clues 1-x be found on a map but then clues x-y need to be found by actually being there?

    I’m definitely thinking the blaze will be one of those clues that can only be seen once on location, but that’s just me. How far can a good map take us?

    So how general do you all think he’s being? I know he’s said it’ll make sense once we’ve found the correct sequence and that we’ll go straight to it if done the correct way… does this mean the whole riddle can be solved from home and that we go straight to the chest? Or does this mean the answers, if you will, to the poem will get you in a general “correct” area that requires more searching?

    I’ve been struggling with this when trying to decide if I want to look at the bigger picture or get deep with detail etc when setting my search parameters.

    Any thoughts?

  21. The Nine Clues…or somewhere else?…hmm…

    “Let not fortune, which hath no name in Scripture, have any in thy divinity. Let Providence, not chance, have the honour of thy acknowledgments, and be thy Oedipus in contingencies. Mark well the paths and winding ways thereof; but be not too wise in the construction, or sudden in the application. The hand of Providence writes often by abbreviatures, hieroglyphics or short characters, which, like the Laconism on the wall, are not to be made out but by a hint or key from that spirit which indited them.”

    “Be substantially great in thyself, and more than thou appearest unto others.”

    ~Sir Thomas Browne

    Although you may not have attended university Forrest, perhaps you have read this somewhere?

    – Wisconsin Mike

  22. In the light of Randy’s disappearance, I would like to say something related to these posts.

    I feel it was just a matter of time before something like this happened. FF has said over and over, don’t go anywhere a 79- or 80-year-old man wouldn’t go, but a number of us are not listening (and I’ve been guilty of pushing the limits before now). We really should take that to heart. I totally believe FF when he says that it’s not in a dangerous place and a child could walk right up to it. Before any of us set out again, unless we are experienced and fully equipped survivalists who are out for extreme adventure, please, please, please think twice about where you plan to go. We need this to be a fun and happy Chase.

    Good luck to all those searching for Randy.

    • Yes so true. How many times has Forrest warned the searchers on the things they were doing and told they place not to go, that were dangerous. With that we all hope things turn out well.
      Listen to Forrest

      • I think one of the reasons is the ‘no place for the meek’ line in the poem. Makes some people think they have to follow a more dangerous path…

    • Vox,

      I agree with you and everyone else that ff has said several time to not venture where a 79-80 year old man could not go and to also wait until spring. However I must in defense of Randy add the following:
      In 2011 the Jemez Mountains area (in which Bandelier NM is located) suffered from a man caused wildfire that burnt much of the forest. That blaze along with heavy rains that same year caused the Bandelier area to flood and destroy a trail leading down to the lower Frijoles falls.

      See the following site for more information and pictures:

      Now a lot of searchers (myself included) believe that the Bandelier area is a potential spot for indulgence for several reasons one being that the highest elevation is 10,199ft and the lowest being the Rio Grande river at approx 5000ft. I believe that Randy too thought that the lower Frijoles Falls was a potential location of the TC and in his enthusiasm he abandoned all reason and advice (im sure we all can understand that). Randy must have know that the path was lost and that is why he did his recon on or about the 24th of December from the east. I believe that upon returning in early January he found that the roads leading back out to the area were too muddy for his vehicle and then unfortunately choose to purchase a raft and float down from the Buckman area instead of listening to advice to wait.

      I hope that Randy is found alive and well, but this should be a lesson to us all to listen to ff, our own common sense and wait until the Rocky Mountains are more forgiving in the spring.


      • One Note:

        I believe Forrest did say in the recent search notes that the area Randy was in wasn’t North of Santa Fe so Bandelier may now possibly be removed as a potential search area now.

        I thought that ff had previously said in a video interview in his backyard that north could be anywhere from from 271-91 degrees.

        Dal, Goofy or ff please correct me if i am wrong.


        • Seannm-
          Whether Bandelier is a viable location was argued extensively a couple years ago on this blog.
          Forrest finally settled it by pointing out that it is on the TFTW map and so must be considered.

      • Sean,
        I agree and would not look in the winter if my solve was in a snow covered area or icy area. That being said, I can understand why folks would take the added risk. f has said it is best to stay home by a nice warm fireplace (paraphrased) but that does not translate into a fact that it cannot be retrieved in the winter. The more sure one is of their solve and certain that others have the same solve might lead to being less risk averse. Good advice sean.

      • Seannm, I’m not familiar with NM but I believe Forrest told a reporter that this area of the Rio Grand river where Randy’s dog Leo and raft were found is SOUTH of 8.25 miles starting boundary North of Santa Fe.

        Forrest had a reason for giving out that public clue. Perhaps it was to keep folks out of the Rio Grand river.

        He may have eliminated Utah and Arizona for similar reasons with their numerous deep remote canyons IMO. (I do realize the remaining states have dangerous canyons as well).

        When Forrest stated the treasure is NOT in a dangerous place, and a child could WALK (not swim) up to it, DON’T search in the winter, be prepared, IMO Forrest meant just what he said.

        People should take him at his word! No dangerous float trips through remote canyons, no rappelling down ravines, or over cliffs, not in a mine or tunnel….

        I’ve been guilty of ignoring “don’t go anywhere an 80 yr old man wouldn’t go.” He means that too.

        While we all deeply feel the loss of another human being who enjoyed ttotc…I hope Forrest doesn’t feel responsible for anyone’s choice to ignore his warnings…which are intended to keep us Out of trouble.

        ***Forrest, if you see This post, I hope you will consider posting a HEADLINER message on the main blog sites that searchers frequent clearly stating your “not in a dangerous place” related statements. With 65,000 searchers many with children…perhaps folks would see the headline before digging for clues.***

        I’ve enjoyed my days spent in the Spring and summer sunshine looking for your treasure more than you can imagine. I believe Randy’s passionate spirit would want the rest of us to continue enjoying the quest you set forth.

        • Lia,

          Yes when Chanon Thompson went missing (then later found) back in March of 2013 in the Bandelier area ff never ruled that area out as being south of SF at that time. My opinion up to this point has been that BNM was within the 271+ degrees north of and well beyond the 8.25 miles as the crow flies from SF. Now ff has stated that BNM is south of SF and as i read it should be eliminated as a potential search area.

          Again ff has stated several times to wait until spring to search and i have headed those words because i hate the cold and would much rather sip hot coffee and warm my feet by the fire as well.


  23. I wish it was summer now. I have only been involved with this since November when Expedition Unknown came on television. Now I can’t search because of the weather. So when I am in the ER and not busy with patients, I bang my head on the counter hoping for summer to tap me on the shoulder and say “Let’s go”!!!
    I want to scream my interpretation to everyone because it feels RIGHT (I’m sure we have all had that moment). I can’t though because it would be my dumb luck that I, like many before me, did the same thing and still reach in their pockets to this day only to feel their leg and no cash.
    Or worse, I could be right and everyone on the blog buys plane tickets or gas and beat me to it. That way I become the first official person to have gone to the right spot only to have someone beat me to it and turn it into the site of Fenboree 2017. ha ha ha.

    • Hey med_evac, I’m new to this blog like yourself, but I just wanted to make you aware that one of the dedicated searchers has been missing for a few weeks so the search for treasure has been (unofficially) ceased and the search for the missing person is in full force.

      • FF has not ceased the chase, either officially or unofficially, but rather has said he doesn’t want to call off the chase … however many of of the searchers were already in “winter hiatus” in compliance with FF earlier warnings of the dangers of a winter search. We too are itching for the warmer temps when we can test our solves!

        • I’m waiting for the right time to spring but that’s not to say I won’t try something in the winter. I just don’t wanna say.

        • Ultimately, Forrest doesn’t get to “cease” the chase. It’s out there and there are no rules. People are going to do dangerous things in the name of greed. That being said, we’re all basically in this little circle, and don’t wish ill on anyone.

    • Hi there,

      I missed the program and can’t seem to find a post program file at the station website. Enjoined here record it? Or will it be posted in media coverage?


      • I caught it and IMO nothing was discussed that had not been discussed before. It was a nice interview for the chase, they asked no questions that would have revealed any new information.

  24. Has anybody asked themselves why do we have to be brave when trying to retrieve the treasure chest if it is not in a dangerous place? It makes me wonder what kind of bravery is Mr. Fenn talking about. A kid could walk up to it, and pick it up if he could? It would be the very definition of hidden, but buried and not buried but hidden. That’s what it sounds to me when Mr. Fenn keeps saying hidden, and not buried. All this is my opinion.RC.

    • Yes I have, many times. Maybe it is just the fact that you have to be ” in the woods” for a example, some city dwellers may become very intimidated by leaving civilization behind. I know of some that think when they are a mile away from the nearest road that think they are in the wilderness. Perhaps it is a clue to the location, whatever it is you can be brave and not actually put yourself in harms way. The definition of bravery covers vast area’s of ones life.IMO

    • IMO “Toys are forever” in TFTW , first chapter. This is why I think it is hidden under a juniper bush, and you would have to be brave to look under it, with all the “dragons and scorpions and black-widow spiders”. Also you could walk right past it and not see it if you weren’t looking (under the bush). Well hidden and they live a long time. I don’t have the TC in my hands, so I might be wrong, or I haven’t looked under the right bush yet. LOL. Good luck

      • Good luck trying to find the right one, Not Obsessed. Maybe if you place a tag on each one, you won’t have to back track. 🙂

    • To me brave has something to do with indian lands and in the wood means under something like leaves or nature.

  25. Well, I do not think of remember ff saying a kid could walk up to it. In a sec tion called emails or Forrest gets mail, a lady asked ff if it was safe for her kids to get the chest, he did not say they could walk up to it…. he said it was in a safe place, as I recall.

    • HERE it IS

      Hi Mr. Fenn,

      I wonder if you could tell me if it’s at a place that my boys and I would be able to go to that’s not too risky of a place (ie: the side of a cliff). I haven’t even read your book yet. I’m already planning a trip though to Yellowstone with my family.

      Patty, the treasure is where an elderly man put it so I suppose your kids would be in a safe place if they found it. f

      • For me, it is the last one or two clues. Tarry scant with marvel gaze has me still a little stumped.

        • Thank you for your response, Friend. As for me, I haven’t took time to look because of concentrating on finding Randy. I would love to say I’m trying to figure out how to “take the chest and go in peace,” but then I wake up and realize I was only dreaming. I’m just hoping I have it right this time, along with the thousands of people who feel the same way.

          • @PDenver, I have been trying to figure this out as well. I still have a hunch that he built a shelter for survival and that’s where he will be found, a mile or so from the raft. No one in my opinion should be looking for the chest right now. FF said not to head out in the winter. So my focus lies elsewhere now as well.
            Best wishes,

          • Friend,
            I respect your opinion about Randy but please keep those opinions on the appropriate page. Looking forward to your opinion about the 9 clues when you have had the time to think it over.
            I am not a moderator and this is just ‘my’ opinion

          • I hope he’ll be found, too. I agree. Anything to do with the chase, it should be studying or wait until Spring or Summer to physically search.

        • first clue. I can not know for sure the first clue is correct if I have not found the treasure. so i guess you could also all of the clues.

        • @friend, research Andrew Marvell, Upon Appleton House. May give you an idea about the blaze.

      • Well I guess I am fortunate, I believe I have them all. But I wont even know if I have the first one correct or not till the weather breaks and my paper gets graded.
        The most difficult is the first clue, without having that one right it is impossible..

      • A clue is the answer to a part of the poem it refers to. I don’t think it’s the clues that are giving some problem, I think it is simple how we see the poem, rather then the authors intent for what he is saying.

        The word “follow” in the the book ; “So I wrote a poem containing nine clues that if followed precisely will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure”
        Most want to believe this is a must to botg only, a directional stepping only… however, It could be as simple as a description or a set of instruction [ not unlike baking a cake ] and all you have all are the pieces/ingredients understood, and go to that location.

        It’s not who you are, it’s who they think you are… he can make you believe what he wants.

        Many have posted suggestion, Meek is a place that most folks would not normally go. possibly because of fear of those places.
        Many have posted suggestions, Brave is needed because of possible Danger or very difficult.
        Some have suggested Tired and Weak, May mean difficult water course or terrain needed to be taken.
        Almost everyone believes canyon down is where they need to travel physically.
        Cold must mean winter or a very cold river of extreme temperature.

        Why the heck are some looking in places that are seemingly very difficult to traverse, believe there is some sort of risky act involved?

        We have been told time and time again. Don’t go where a 79 or 80 year old can’t go. Have been told, that while no place is completely safe on this planet, the chest is in a safe place for searchers adults and children could go. Also have been told suggested, to wait till spring and warmer conditions for searching.

        Why is it, that this poem should be suggested to have any physical or dangerous situation involved is beyond me…

        Pdenver, this comment is not directed at you personally… just a general comment to this discussion. To attempt to answer your question… people see clues the way they want to see them, with very Little thought of imagination to interpretation. Of course, That’s my opinion… which doesn’t hold water.

        • Why is it, that this poem should be suggested to have any physical or dangerous situation involved is beyond me…

          The physical aspect or danger is all in the interpretation of the clues, We know there is some physical because ff made two trips, and we know its not where any 80 year young man couldn’t go. Some seem to think ff couldn’t take it far and some seem to think maybe he has super human abnormal 80 year old strength. I think the answer lies somewhere in between. As for the danger I guess it is only as dangerous as your interpretation to make your solve work.. These are all clues that searchers seem to ignore. If your solve involves super human feats or present a chance for injury then a person should take that as a red flag and reconsider if they have solved the clues or are they making the clues fit their solve. IMO and some could say mine holds no water either.

          • Clarification; Physical was meant as, risky or shouldn’t be tempted, such as the man and woman in YNP building a make shift raft with tree limbs and such to cross a river… and had to be rescued… they couldn’t hike around? or better yet find another route to the other side?

            But thanks JL… I should have made my point clearer.

      • Pd you asked-Which of the 9 clues do you feel is stumping you the most, if it truly is one?
        There seem to be 2 for me that are difficult to get correct IMO and that word be HOB and the blaze. Both could be so many things and I think that’s way Forrest chose such vague descriptions. One thing that I’ve been wondering is if HOB is the place he went “alone in there”? The more and more I read the poem the more and more it looks like each clue is connected. My most recent way of looking at the blaze is it’s a place that could hold all the clues from the second half of the poem. These ways of thinking takes a little imagination to fully understand and it’s not the typically way the poem is looked at.

        • Count,

          pg 131 of TTOTC “A little piece of me is also inside the box” could this be the as i have gone alone in there?


        • The first and last words in the home of Brown are capitalized. Hes a writer and knows that means HOB is a title.

      • The Blaze, hands down. [this is in response to a question about opinion 😉 ]

        At least WWWH refers to
        -a location, general or specific
        -water, with your choice of warm
        -halt, ditto your choice

        HOB refers to
        -home, subject to interpretation, but still inferring a PLACE that’s “home-ish”
        -associated with something you may refer to as “Brown”

        IF you have those, the rest MAY be easier as f suggests, but I still think you need the confirmation of successive clues to EVER validate your ideas about the first few.

        THE BLAZE, is…..some sort of marker. Any sort of marker. Any size, any color, any material. Our only clue is that it is probably permanent in a human time frame (i.e. enduring on a geologic scale), simply because f thinks it will still be “find-able” in many hundreds of years.

        Personally, I take the poem as literally as its’ vagueness allows. I have a solve for all but Blaze, but not the weather; so I am only looking at clues in preparation for being wrong. Hahaha.

      • Sorry for the delay, pd, busy “logging”, and fire breaking. Plus. I rely on a smartphone with a bad connection. But I digress. Let’s back up a minute to the the phrase, “so I wrote a poem containing nine…” stop there. Nine. Nein. Ninny.
        Nin “e”…
        Just one way to look…
        How many tries before Formula 409? 😉

        • Sorry I missed your reply, Jdiggins. ‘So I wrote a poem containing nine…’How about, “A stitch in time saves nine”? 🙂

  26. All,

    Been searching through the archives and cannot find where ff sates about how far he walked when he did the chest in his two trips from his car. I remember seeing a conversation with Dal about this but cannot locate it.

    Thank you.


    • Less then a few if my recollection serves me right, don’t keep track of the quotes.
      I mainly rely on the processor between my ears. But I suggest looking up the definition of few. imo

        • I really don’t think it took him “all” afternoon. IMO less than the 500 feet that he mentioned some early searchers were within. I think its not far from a parking spot. The two trips in one afterenoon could have been anywhere from 10 minutes to 5 or 6 hours. An 80 year old man carrying 20+ pounds is not going to walk two or three miles, IMO of course.

  27. Less than a few, can mean scant. What is less than a few? What is scant? Could be 100 feet! A less than a few can mean anything from 1 foot to up to..otherwise he would have said less than a mile, or less than.. His words are carefully chosen.

    • Perspective… To an Ant, a mud puddle is an ocean.
      A scant means a few, Fenn stated he walk a less than few miles when hiding the chest. Did so in two trips in one afternoon.
      Perspective… a few miles in one direction? total trip of two trips? in one afternoon being 6 hours or one hour?
      A few being three miles? @ 2 mph walking / hiking? [ 6 hours to fully complete the task?] On flat land or inclined, straight walk or switchbacks?

      Is the same way Fenn went that same way we’re told to go?

      Hmm eight questions… Loco must be pounding his head against a brick wall right about now… lol… sorry bud!

      • Think about less than; What does that mean; Less than can mean only one foot under his meaning. Or one foot to few!

        • Less than a few; can mean … even a inch! as he did not describe or tell you any other definition of a “less than a few.” And low and behold he says he walked “in two trips in one afternoon.” Confusing at least!

          • Makes me wonder if he’s leaving out something like riding a horse or atv for a ways, prior to walking.

          • As much as I agree it’s confusing. The word choice of a few is greater than two. With the “miles” added to the comment, we must assume miles is the distance of measurement. Should he actually meant less than a few miles, I would think the words less than couple of miles or less than a mile would have been used. I don’t think he would mislead us in that comment by suggesting miles and meant feet. imo

            Fenn is not going to relinquish exact miles traveled, but a few in common terms mean more than two. The question is… one way? or total? Now we have something to calculate. Two trips approx. 3/4 of a mile one way, if total travel is involved. < to equal less then 3 miles.
            If it's less than a few miles one way, then we have up to three miles [ with the possibility of more ] giving a total of two trips of approx. 12 miles.

            Then we add time, and we still don't know what the exact time was that those trips took as well… 2 hours, 4 hours, 6 hours?

            This is all fun to think about, yet facts are; we may not have to travel the same way fenn did, and we don't know how far off road fenn drove. He has a 4×4 jeep and knows the area like the back of his hand. He may have easily drove 2 miles or more, into the area off any type of road, paved or otherwise, and still hikes more than two mile from there.

            So now we have as much as a 3 square mile area ~ add four different directions to search [ N – E – W – S ] That is a very big search perimeter. Even IF we knew where he turned of a road.

            If only 3/4 of a mile one way, with 4 different directions available, that is still a very large area to look for a 10" x 10" chest, without knowing how to solve the poem.

        • Seeker: “LESS” THAN A FEW! the word “LESS THAN”.. a few, can mean alot! You are missing the “less than” a few. …

        • Less than is not a distance, it’s acknowledgement of not more than. Fenn used ‘miles’ as a distance of measurement, in his comments.

          I’m sorry Debi, I don’t see how more or less than is a measurement without some kind of detail of distance, such as miles.

        • Debi, I agree with your interpretation that “less than” could be a range from 0.1-3. Additionally Forrest could have been implying using “>” a less than symbol to point directionally. Who knows? I was chasing my tail round-about yesterday looking at his Rumbaugh/Watkins creek comments at Mysterious Writings from months ago. The scenery around Firehole Ranch on Hebgen is flies on that. Not affordable for our family, but sure pretty.

          friend, did you have more luck than me getting thru Andrew Marvell’s poem Appleton? That’s a lonnnng piece with a lot of thinking involved – needed 3 study guides to make sense of everything from primogeniture to transmutation. Wittily worded trident but Thank you mr fenn for writing a brief 24 line poem. Now, where can we buy your cliff notes?

          • Hi Anna, I started to look at the poem then had to set it aside. My brain was to tired when I started reading. It is heavy and intricate. Maybe someday I read the whole thing, but not today. 🙂 Looking back through the scrapbooks and words from Forrest, I am gaining a clearer understanding… I hope so anyway.
            Tis a mystery?

          • @Anna & friend, sorry to put you thru that. I haven’t read that whole poem either. You might find interesting stuff in either poem(The garden), but his “gaze” I believe is seeing the “97” stanzas. Marvel gaze is the “97”.
            “The Garden” will get your gaze on “sundials”, IMO.
            Now, you can take it for whatever you may think, for me, it’s the 97, sundial, firepit thing. That’s the blaze. Also, the date of his death along with his age when he died, 57. Same age when Forrest was diagnosed with cancer, (January 1958).
            Here’s a bone, research “nickel”, you may find “where warm waters halt”.:)

  28. To have an opinion about what a clue may, or may not be I think is the wrong way to approach the search. I think the clues are what they are and they have no room for interpretation. How else can you follow the clues exactly? RC.

    • We all have an opinion to what the clues are, no one received a list of the nine clues. Look at all of the solves that have not produced any results. Fact is if you do not have the correct nine clues your path will not be direct to the TC. How many possible scenario ‘s can there be to the poem, only one correct one but an unlimited amount do to a persons opinion/interpretation. IMO

        • Hey debi, don’t think I’m picking on you… as to our discussion of less than or about what I’m going to ask now… it’s all about difference of opinions to make one think.

          You said. “Nine clues one path; one map” What size map are you working with?
          That would be a big help to know… I still don’t know if the clues refer to one small area or a continent.

          • I say just solve the poem, forget the nine clues or whatever thing. Solving the poem, in the end will tell you your supposed nine clues.
            What if there is different levels in the poem, and the “path’ couldn’t be solved until the different levels before it are solved. You could have 9 clues in one level, 11 in another, and now the third level solve for your path with another nine clues. Solve the poem, don’t take things for face value, and don’t fall into the “interpretation” trap.IMO.

  29. I thought about less than. it’s not relative to miles in relationship to “less than.” so many miles. It could mean less than to 0.1 miles all the way to 3 miles! Thought for discussion.

    • Lets play with that 1/10 of a mile.
      That would be 4/10 of a mile total with to trips. That if my math is correct, that’s less than a mile, in-fact it’s less then a 1/2 mile. If true, the the comment of ” less then a few miles” would be completely misleading as there is no one mile involved, nevertheless two or more. or “a few miles” Miles being plural and more than one. I can’t see a word smith, that most call him, a surveyor, a pilot, be so far off in calculating.

      However this was fun Debi… we just disagree.

  30. What I don’t get is the number of clues applicable to different sized areas.

    FF said that a searcher correctly solved the first two clues, then walked (or went) right by the chest, just a couple hundred feet away, because the searcher didn’t understand the remaining 6 or 7 clues.

    So how is it that we have only 2 or 3 clues for an immense area from Santa Fe to the Canadian border. But have 6 or 7 clues for an area smaller than a football field?

    FF’s comment thus changed my entire perspective of the clues given that he said basically that when you’ve correctly identified HOB you’re very close to the chest.

    How can that be … with 6 or 7 clues remaining, after HOB?

    I know we should not necessarily take a literal view of what FF says in interviews. But the logic (2 or 3 clues for an multiple states, but 6 or 7 clues for a very small area) defies logic.

    Would be nice to hear some sensible responses from posters, vis-a-vis accepting the apparent illogical implications as valid because the comments were made by FF. Finding the chest is literally dependent on the clues making sense. The above contradiction does not make sense, regardless of the status of the person who made them.

    • Ken,

      I think it’s long pass due to rethink…
      First; Fenn stated some have indicated the first two clues, however the comment about some being 500′ or 200′ from the chest is , imo is separate comment.

      Some have the first two clues [ but no indication they knew they did] and went pass or walked pass the other seven, does seem to indicate the clues are relatively close…Yet what are those clues? You assume [ by your post ] that hoB is either the 3rd or 4th clue, which seems logical… but i’ll throw this possibility into the mix… Should WWWH, canyon down, not far and too far be the first three clues, why can’t they be All below hoB?

      Stanza three is two separate sentences, and maybe the first sentence describes the first three clues with the second sentence tells, All that is ‘put in’ below an area. Doesn’t it seem interesting that, the first sentence of stanza 2 appears to be an action of movement, Yet stanza 3 appears to be more a description of a overall place, and no movement?

      So the thought here is: BIWWWH, ATIITCD, NFBTFTW, are already below the hoB… “FROM THERE IT”S” no place for the meek, [ where is the movement] the end is near,[ still no movement] no paddle up your creek,[ again seemingly no movement] “JUST” heavy load and water high…[ how do you move that?] < do these lines truly seem to be a movement?

      Now go back to stanza 2; Begin it where and take it in [ movement ] Not far, but too far to walk [ seems like movement, just not sure of distance ] Is this why the some have indicated the first two clues… and… went pass the other seven? They simply kept going?

      Stanza 4 states; "if you've been wise"… past tense… "and found the blaze"… past tense. Could stanza 3 be simply describing the Blaze itself? Two clues putting you at a location, while the other seven clues [ in part ] tell you what the blaze may be, and now you are to " look quickly down " to finish your quest. { a movement]

      Just thoughts, as like you, the comments about the first two clues and going pass the other seven are confusing to me as well.

    • I have to ask myself why would Forrest place the treasure close to the first clue?
      I don’t think he did, it would be to easy to find.
      Yes people figured out the first couple of clues & went/walked right by the other clues & the chest.
      I am thinking that it may be the same people just different days. They could have been on a week long trip looking for the treasure & sight seeing as well. Taking pictures & posting them or emailing Forrest letting him know where they were.

      There have been many searching for the treasure & site seeing as well & travel 50, 100 miles while away for the week. I am one of them.

      The way Forrest words things sometimes can confuse probably by design.

  31. Ken,
    The following is just my opinion but it fits with my solution, perfectly:

    Once you’ve solved the first 2 clues you are passing by the actual area of the hidden chest. But you don’t know it yet. The 3rd clue is beyond the chest area. The final 6 clues take you in a large loop of many miles but comes right back to the location of where the 2nd clue led you. That’s when you recognize that you’ve already been to that general location. And that’s one reason why “the end is ever drawing nigh,” after the 2nd clue.

    Forrest did not say you were very close to the chest at HOB. He said if he told you where HOB was you could “go right” to it. He meant exactly that. Looking at HOB (or below HOB) on a map, you must “go right” to get to the chest. In other words, turn right and continue following the clues.

    • I like this observation of hoB. Locate the first two clues, which in-turn may have 6 remaining clues… However those clues must be seen from a distance @ hoB…
      If you’ve been wise [ to that possibility ] you should see your goal from the area of hoB and what is needed from that vantage point to finalize your quest.

      The question remains is; is stanza 3 describing what one sees at hoB or is it describing hoB itself?

      This could answer why searchers went pass the other seven clues… they never located hoB to see them. Now comes the next problem… If some have indicated the correct ‘ 4 ‘ clues… yet still may not have know, is hoB not so much a ‘place’ but simply a viewing point / station?

      Does the poem [first two clues ] have you at the location of the chest and forces you to walk away ~ to that vantage point?

      • @Seeker @John, I think he pretty much ruled out a “loop” or “switching back”, here–>

        Moby Dickens 11/02/13 – it starts just before 8 minutes in the video ;

        Q: if you followed the clues in the poem precisely would you find yourself switching back? making a loop??

        A: i think i can say no to that without giving away too much of a clue

        (of course, he may have just been joshing, eh seeker? 🙂 )

        • Yeah loco I know… Yet is it really a loop or switching back if it’s an observation point to view something? Only to see and not a clue. This could be a hint that this vantage point show details back at the points of where the clues arr and what those clues refer too.

          We seem too preoccupied by clues… Are we forgetting his hints? Just thoughts to think about.

          • Seeker,
            There is one location that I have determined that would work with the Poem.

            It would definitely explain why/how Fenn could state that some searchers have solved the first two clues (but don’t know it) and how they could have proceeded past the other seven. Also, it most assuredly would allow him to state that others arrived there and didn’t know the significance.

            And yes, I agree that in stanza 3, the first “sentence” is referring to what you must find below HOB. I haven’t determined yet if the second “sentence” is also referring to the same as sentence #1, or if it possibly is related to the Blaze. I am researching using stanza three both ways—wholly related to HOB, or divided between HOB and the Blaze.

            So, in that respect, within the Poem, you must “look back”! I think(hope) that his answer at Moby Dickens was referring to BOTG search.

            My current attempt does absolutely require that you “locate” something beneath HOB in order to identify the Blaze and proceed.

            🙂 🙂 …………loco………IMOIMOIMO 🙂

          • The semi colon may suggest they are two different entities yet work together, or have to be combined in someway.

            By the way, what was your hoB again… ? ? ? ? [ insert smiley face here < ]

    • John, Ken:
      For discussion purposes it may be helpful for you to cite that exact quote from Forrest, since it’s an important statement.

      If memory serves me, he replied to a question about what is the home of Brown by saying (paraphrased)
      If I told you that you could go right to it. To me that implies you could go right to the ‘home of Brown’, but ff didn’t say you could go right to the treasure. I believe it also implies there must be exact coordinates in the poem, or one thing that embodies HoB.. a large rock, cliff, historic place where a famous Brown lived, etc. Can’t simply be where brown trout live – how would you go right to it?

        • @Jake. Thanks. That’s helpful in elimination of Browns or further research. Sometimes I wonder if Brown is his trustee or attorney and all you have to do is phone the correct Brown in Santa Fe. LOL 🙂

          I di also agree that in the poem ff could be making references to two separate types of chests. Maybe the grand Teton mountains. Lol for those French fur trappers paying attention.

          @Jdiggins like you I’m stuck at As I. Just finished thinking that it could be American Standard tuning notation given the a’s inside ears in books. I’ve been laughed at so many times here and by family that it no longer bothers me to figure out how to fit a square peg thru a round hole.

      • hey Lia
        I agree with you.. Why is that everyone complains about how smart FF is with this poem but then they will turn around and say that it’s Brown Trout that is the HOB. I DO NOT BELIEVE for a minute that as smart as FF is he would such simplicity for HOB. After he was a guide for that when he was younger.

        • How about House of Brown as in Jim Brown Cleveland NM.. Never been BOTG but isn’t that North of Santa Fe?

  32. John;

    I wish that you would NOT state as fact, those things that you personally believe. Saying that “HOB has nothing to do with brown trout etc…”

    This is your personal opinion NOT FACT!


  33. John;

    Perhaps I spoke a bit harshly. I do ask politely that you review the RULES of this blog, and abide by them. Until you have the Treasure Chest in your hands, all that you might say is opinion, not fact. Please abide by the rules.

    I new searcher might read your opinions as fact, and be completely thrown off of what might have been the perfect solution.



  34. @Seeker, John, loco:

    Thanks for posting that exact Q&A.
    Here’s my opinion for what it’s worth. Two completely different questions were asked. A switchback looks like a Zig zag on every map I’ve seen; where as a loop resembles a circlular path.

    Forrest said he could answer “that” not both or those. So which one did he answer? Moreover, was fenn thinking about the entire process of following the clues or only one segment? IMO way too many refs to circular patterns and reasoning appear in his poem and books to discount it. What is true is that my mind zig zags through his poem and I do chase my tail in circles.:-)

    • Lia,
      A ‘switchback’ and ‘switching back’ IMO are two different things. Where a switchback is a trail that does zigzag, The trail still usually leads in the same direction of line of sight or straight to a point, if you will. A loop is just that, a circle…
      In the question presented, I believe it was meant as circling back to a previous place, and answered the same. Yet it is curious that fenn stated “I think I can say no to that without giving away too much of a clue.”

      Maybe, just maybe, we don’t need to ‘go back’ to where were, but see something that can’t be seen when we were at that location. There are many possibilities…
      I’m just trying to keep them all in mind for when they day comes to have a look.

      I do believe the poem can be understood beforehand… however there maybe something in the field that must be known as well, and not known till one gets there. But at least if the poem is solved… one should know what to do to see that and and how to figure it out… in theory anyways.

      • Seeker & all:
        (7:48) If you follow the poem precisely, would you find yourself switching back? Making a loop? (It appears Fenn did not hear “Making a loop”) (Also Fenn repeats the question without mentioning “Making a loop”) “I think I can say no to that without giving away to much of the clue”
        I am not sure Forrest heard making a loop, he was in thought & talked over a portion of making a loop?

  35. Hi Jake, this isn’t my exact solve but may help explain different meanings for chest. Please don’t think I’m being crude…I’m a Wyoming gal, thus familiar with who named the Grand Teton Mountains and what it’s French interpretation is. The French fur trappers during In the early 1800’s aptly named them big boobs or Grand Tetons in French. They look like a woman’s chest and are a perfect geographical place to build a solution. Here are some ideas
    (All loose opinionated ideas only)

    Chest 1 = Grand Teton peaks
    Chest 2 = a close facsimile of real bronze chest with info on how to contact Fenn’s trustee
    Chest 3 = actual Romanesque chest filled with Fenn’s treasure
    Chest 4 = outward wooden chest/or crate containing Romanesque treasure chest

    • LOL Lia, Those French trappers must have been real lonely there in the middle of nowhere.
      We need to get our minds out of the gutter & focus on heavy loads… never mind.
      I will go with door #3 actual Romanesque chest filled with Fenn’s treasure.
      I don’t think Forrest was referring to any other chest although he does seem like a perv at times. IMO

      Hows the weather in WY?
      Took a trip there in Cody back in August looking for the treasure in Colters Hell & came to the conclusion months later, sometimes you got to go through hell to get to heaven.

      • Uhumm Jake, would you like to explain your perv comment to goofy and dal? Kinda surprised that one flew by. Anyway weather in Jackson has been nice, mid 20’s is balmy and skiing is decent. We could use some fresh powder so the Tetons are properly covered in their foundation garments.

        • OK lia, you got me there.
          I should have used the word “flirt” when describing some of Forrest’s reactions when around woman. I have seen allot of video & pics to see this appears to be true.

    • Lia,

      I know you posted for Jake, but I have to inquire about the “close facsimile of real bronze chest”
      Are you thinking the real chest is not hidden in the RM’s and safe and sound somewhere else…? still in the safe?
      My first thought is; what happens in 1000’s year? How can a trust be reliable for that long a time period.

      • Hello Seeker, please keep in mind that I’ve been doing more coloring than thinking :-). I have several untried, unsolved theories, one of which is that f was smart enough not to pay gift tax or have his families estate taxed in the future if the treasure is ever found in a hundred or thousand years. Some states are better than others for sheltering wealth by state law. Maybe ff purchased land somewhere and the real treasure box resides there but a different less impressive chest sits where the poem first leads with further instructions. I think it’s possible the poem may lead to two planned locations.

        He may have figured out a way to tie the treasure to property so the finder doesn’t pay state taxes, only federal, Who knows? His ttotc dream about Captain Kidd and also riding away on a white horse lead me to believe any scenario is possible.

  36. Does anyone know of other good blogs like this one, where a guy could get additional hints about the chase?

    • Duh, I’m sorry, only wandered into this a few days ago from a Google search. There are 250+ news articles on google about Randy and Forrest. This page moves like a sluuuuuggg…..

  37. Just beginning to investigate and gain insight to the poems meanings. First of all the Yellowstone basin is where to look ..

  38. Saturday evening, January 30th. You’ve probably noticed the blog is slow. over 2,000 hits an hour are threatening to derail it. Goofy is in the engine room. He told me this:
    “If we eject the core and detonate, the blast could be enough to push us away! I cannae promise anything, though! “

    • I told him just the other day, to upgrade from a dilithium to a trilithium articulation frame. The warp plasma will travel through within the power transfer conduits at a 23.8% more efficient flow rate 🙁

    • Thanks for splainin’ Dal.

      Most of the ancient ones probably had that figured out, maybe not the newbies…….and maybe Seeker hadn’t figured it out?? 🙂

      Tell Goofy we’ll all chip in and buy him a new chew toy if he can keep it patched together long enough to get out of range!!!

      LOL!! Thanks for all you guys have done and do!!

      • Loco,,

        You almost caused me to spit water all over TFTW! that was decent comic relief.

        Thanks to those in the flight deck, and those in the engine room.

    • Aye Capt’n……She’s giving us all she’s got and I’m pushing for more.

      I think this is the highest sustained hit rate we’ve ever had, and that’s a lot.

      • … slow indeed. Thought I never would get in to post.

        Readers probably are already aware of this, but in case they’re not …

        Both CBS and ABC ran a story yesterday on the search for the missing searcher. That may account for the increased traffic.

  39. Thanks much to everyone who responded to my dilemma in logic. I don’t want to hog this thread with redundancy. But it’s a very important consideration to anyone serious about finding the chest. So I’ll make a quick repeat of the problem and then respond to posters who responded upthread.

    Here’s the problem … FF has said that searchers have been within 200/500 feet of the chest without knowing it, as a result of correctly figuring out the first two clues. What he’s saying, in effect, is that searchers are given 2 clues for an immense area from Santa Fe to the Canadian border, but then are given 7 clues for an area smaller than a football field (for a searcher to be within a few hundred feet of chest). How can that be?

    Perhaps I have misinterpreted their explanations but both “seeker” and “locolobo” “seem” to make sense out of this dilemma by suggesting that FF’s comments imply that the clues are not in sequential order. “Seeker” said: “So the thought here is: “BIWWWH, ATITTCD, NF-BTFTW , are already “below” the hoB …”. “Seeker” regards HOB as a “vantage point” to begin quest using remaining clues.. That’s fine, except the explanation puts the clues out of sequential order, if by “below” “seeker” means “after”.

    Poster “Jake Faulker” suggested that the dilemma could make sense if the searchers who went right by the chest made a second visit to the area. But that still doesn’t negate the fact that they were in close proximity to the chest on their first trip.

    Later, “Jake Faulker” responded to poster “lia” of the exact quote that Forrest made. When Forrest was asked “Who’s Brown?”, FF said: “If I told you that you’d go right to the chest”.

    So again, HOB appears to be in close geographic proximity to the chest. Yet the HOB clue comes early in the poem. The implication is that FF gives us 2 clues for an immense area that includes 4 states. Yet, when we find the HOB, we get 7 additional clues for a small area, given that searchers solved the first two clues but walked right past the remaining 7.

    Enough. Just lots of thinking here. No need to respond. I’m just trying to reconcile this apparent contradiction in my own mind. And if you are serious about finding the chest, at some point in your thinking process you will need to address this issue too.


    Ken 🙂

    • Vantage points are everything Ken.

      In this chase and in this life the way we see each moment and its angles will always affect our outcome.

      Each persons treasure is for them to find.

      I hope Randy found it that day. I am sure he did.

      Godspeed good soul.

      the humanity you ppl have displayed is truly beautiful.

    • Hey Ken, You said;

      “Here’s the problem … FF has said that searchers have been within 200/500 feet of the chest without knowing it, as a result of correctly figuring out the first two clues.”

      The problem is the searchers did not know the had the first two clues correct either. [ at least at the time of the comments ]
      “Several months ago some folks correctly mentioned the first two clues to me in an email and then they went right past the other seven, not knowing that they had been so close. Alas, and dame fortune, so often a fickle and seductive wench, never spun her wheel to lure them back.”
      Hi Forrest,
      I saw an excerpt from your Oct 22 event at the bookstore where you mentioned again that the furthest people have gotten was only figuring out the first 2 clues. I had sent you an email after my 7th trip to Montana from Connecticut a few days before the event outlining my solution which led me xxxxxx where I planned to continue my search in the spring. Obviously if you said you know of only the first 2 clues being solved then all of the people who emailed you their solutions, including me, should start looking elsewhere. Before I give up my solution, I just wanted to confirm that you do in fact read every email even if you don’t respond.

      I read all emails unless they are too long, unsigned, or ask for an advantage or confirmation.

      Those who have solved the first two clues are not aware that they did, so I don’t see that as useful information for anyone. I will not comment on any solutions that are sent to me by email. Good luck sir. f

      As to my suggestion that WWWH etc. maybe below hoB … The thought is in how you read the poem.

      ex. I tell you to travel two separate roads to get to a place, and then mention to you that both those roads are south of [ lets say ] Brownsville city hall.

      This doesn’t change the order in the poem, it explains simply, that those two roads are located below city hall. or city hall is above the roads. This could also give a vantage point that overlooks those two roads. Anyways, it’s a different thought to how to read/understand the poem and why those searcher didn’t know they had the first two clues.

  40. For my solve…Stanza #1 tells me to go IN THERE – to be used later

    Lines 1,2 and 3 of Stanza #2 – = Clue #2
    Line #3, Stanza #2 = Clue #3 – total of stanza #2 = 10 miles
    Line #1, Stanza #3 I go 2.5 miles
    Lines 2,3 and 4 of Stanza #3 I go 6.7 miles – Total 9.2 miles

    The remaining stanza’s = remainder of the clues.
    At no point do I go more than 500′ after Stanza #3

    Don’t know if this helps…Hope it helps someone

    • JD,

      How do you calculate your distance?

      Are you using the poem or the book for these measurements, I ask because it come down to “all the information is in the poem” comment. And In the OH radio / phone interview @ 40sec into it. Fenn is asked the question about the need for the book… answer; you don’t need to read my book… [ i’ll let you listen to it to make up your own mind.] Found under media coverage in most important info.

  41. All,
    I have gone back and forth on “If you are brave and in the wood I give you title to the gold”. I have spent many hours on this one and at times consider it a clue and others not. Anyways, my thought I woke up with this A.M. is Wood = Forest so maybe all this line is saying is if you are like ff he gives you title. Any thoughts? Is this reaching a bit for an answer or a possibility.

    • JL,

      I can give many examples of what that line means within my warp mind. Warp in this case means; speed through my thought at light-speed, and not so much my warp sense of humor. But that is a good example of how many ways this line [ and all the others] can be interpretative depending on what the author meant.

      The problem i see is… how do you read the poem? if only read as directions to travel, you can see that line one way. If your interpretation of the poem reads differently – such as death… I can see that line might mean, Brave as to finding the location of fenn intended passing, his body, and the chest, and in the wood as a metaphor for coffin or ceremony of such. [ cold as well… dead cold ]
      I can also see the mountain man’s term being used as in the wood, meaning saddle, and saddle of a mountain pass. with brave meaning to take on a challenge. [ a lot of folks today fear the wiles of nature sort of thinking ]
      Someone once suggested, hear and listen may pertain to wood as in the sound of a wood instrument when the wind current flow through a certain area.

      So it comes down to how one reads the poem. Personally I’m a multiple meanings guy when it come to the poem, so i don’t limit myself to one single meaning for anything in the poem. The line you asked about… imo… must flow with the entire reading of the poem, just like all the lines in the poem.

      • This one has bothered me from the beginning, I have gone back and forth on it so many times I am second guessing myself. This is the last two lines of the poem which if it is a clue and you have interpreted everything else correct up to that point I would think you could determine the meaning while there and still walk away with the chest, but then again maybe a 88.9% is not a passing grade for the course. I had considered it as part of the solve at one time but then changed it. It is still there in the back of y mind if I ever need that equation so I guess no harm done if I have to convert back latter. My interpretations of the poem follows many different paths that include direction, imagination, sense’s, and geography, so I get a morphed answer compared to what most others interpretation seems to be.

        • Well, it could be that fenn knew we would dissect every word of the poem, and this stanza is an encouragement to not give up.

          Your effort or tireless pursuit, will make you worthy of the cold, or simply stating metal chest and contents. If your brave enough not to quit in the challenge and found the chest in-lined with wood, treasures and bio. He give you the Title… maybe of the bio… “Title to the Gold” [ would make a great Title don’t ya think?

          If I’m not mistaken, within that bio is, the reasoning of why he did this, how he did this… so future generation knew about it, and what it was like in the time period he did it. [ going by memory of things I have read in the past ].

          Fenn told us this would be difficult but not impossible… the finder would work for it… the path would not be direct for those who did not know beforehand… Maybe this is just a simple closing of encouragement…

          I personally like saddle of a mountain pass to a geographical location, more than I do simply being in the wood [ forest ]. Even though fenn explained what he would see at the location of the chest… it’s not so much the “forest” he is drawn to… imo… as much as the wiles of our natural environment… Mountains, deserts, streams and river, highlands, prairies etc. for me those are the answers.

          Yet, I have thought of one of the clues [ after the fact ] that seems so trival, however, very important… The book states in the mountains north of SF. The clue was, those mountains being the RM’s… I can’t help to think we needed to understand that… for a reason. And the subtle hint to it in the book being… “My church is in the mountains.” Not a religious notion, but a spiritual endeavor…

          • “Title To The Gold” if I find it and use this for the bio does that mean you want compensation? lol. The bio may be the most valuable thing in the chest, nobody knows till they find it. I don’t think we will really understand FF until the chest is found and the mountains are a spiritual place. God knows I’ve spent more time in them then in church. I hope that is a plus and doesn’t get held against me.

          • “My church is in the mountains.” Not a religious notion, but a spiritual endeavor..

            I have been thinking a lot about Forrest spiritual connection with the place he hide the chest and the possible connection with the last stanza pertaining to his spiritual connection with that place. Nothing in TTOTC spoke to me spiritual and then I read something recently that Feen wrote that did speak to me spiritual IMO that version should of been put into TTOTC. I’m starting to believe this part of the poem
            “If you are brave and in the wood
            I give you title to the gold.”
            May have to do with his spiritual connection to the place and the bravery that he once showed to his special location. This tought crosses my mind because of the first word in the poem which is “As”. Leading me to believe the searcher must do what Fenn has done in order to precisely locate the chest. If we must be brave in the wood I believe Fenn once showed this same bravery. For one to brave in the light of a place that you cherish most leads to a bonding that can never be broken.

          • JL,

            I’m the driver of the bright red bus that is heading due south. Your names not on the list as a passenger… so don’t worry too much about missing church now and then.

            I’m not looking into a spiritual connection as clues, just an emotional connection to the mountains.
            Although I have thought about fenn’s comment on ” know where to begin ” While most look at 9 lines for 9 clues, I see a lot of wasted space [ information ]. I have thought that the question within the poem may just be that starting point. I don’t consider it a clue has much as a hint. Reason being, it’s just the starting point – plain and simple. But this starting point has a significance to the spiritual aspect, and and the 9 clues maybe held with inside the understanding of it, how it works for an individuals journey, and the 9 clues tell you that… with those clues leading to the chest’s location.

            So in the nut shell, this technically means there maybe two starting points, 1. The location. [ the place he went alone in a spiritual reference ] 2. The beginning of the 9 clues to be deciphered by the journey taken. Remember, imo, there are 9 clues to be deciphered [understood]. Yet we are told in the poem itself there are hints as well.

            All that brings a another meaning to Brave and in the wood.

            food for thought.

          • Its never to late to drive a different color bus, u could trade that red one in. Maybe red is not the bad color, it is associated with the second coming.

          • When searching for a greater purpose (which I believe is what the chase and poem means to Forrest) emotions and spiritual beliefs go hand and hand. IMO there is no doubt in my mind that Forrest has both a emotional and spiritual connection to the place where his chest is. But maybe the question now is, are any of the clues, especially the last few clues spiritual or emotional feelings with his special place? The last stanza seems to be the biggest stanza for possible metaphorical meaning, if one attempts that route. The act of one being brave in the face of adversity can be both a spiritual and emotional feeling.

          • Since we are talking about the rocky mountains, maybe in the wood just refers to being below timberline. Just a thought.

          • yes saddle, yes church… title to the gold, IMO, references time and what’s missing. As far as the “path”, lines 23 & 24 are clues 8 & 9. IMO.

        • JL & all,
          I look at the poem like meat & broccoli. The meat being the clues & broccoli being non-clues or filler. BTW I do like broccoli, just not as much as meat.
          I believe the clues are places or things we do not know about and/or direction. First, you have to figure out which phrases & words are clues & which are not, before you can move on.
          We all know there are only 9 clues in the poem, right? If you don’t think so, then you shouldn’t be looking for the treasure.
          Try to look at wording in the poem that appears to be straight forward & looking for wording that appears to be giving you direction or place or thing.

          Forrest gives us the begin point & has also stated that the blaze is a clue.
          It appears to me that the 1st stanza is broccoli & sort of a preface in the poem describing that he went to that place alone with the chest filled with new & old items & keeping it completely secret. All straight forward except for where he went.

          Second stanza begins with, begin. Ah, this is where the meat gets put on the fire. He is telling you where to begin the chase in this first phrase. Seems logical to me this is the first clue.
          And take it in the canyon down is 2nd clue you have to figure out.
          Not far, but too far to walk. I think this is straight forward, Forrest is telling us you cannot walk to get there. Besides I don’t think he would have titled his book after a clue in the poem.
          Put in below the home of Brown. 3rd clue you may have to figure out.

          From there it’s no place for the meek, 4th clue is a place
          The end is ever drawing nigh; 5th clue is a place
          There’ll be no paddle up your creek, 6th clue is a creek
          Just heavy loads (7th clue) and water high. 8th clue

          If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, blaze is 9th clue, if you see this, you don’t need to figure anything else out in the poem. This is where the meat falls off the bone. You now have what you’ve been searching for.

          Everything else in the poem is straight forward, all my opinion.

          • That is a good plan, I just don’t see it that way. Doesn’t make either one of us right or wrong. At least until its found.

          • Thanks JL,
            I believe this is the second or 3rd time I posted this. I am glad there are not many believers. It just makes sense to me to seperate what is a clue & what is not before beginning to figure out clues that my not be clues.

            Keep in mind Forrest said something like: When I wrote that poem I wasn’t playing any games, It’s straight forward.

            This is why I took the approach I did in trying to solve his poem.

          • Something tells me when someone finds the treasure, I will say “I never would have thought of that” I could be so far off with my solve, I will be laughing for days.
            Here come the men in the white coats again.

          • Jake,

            I won’t laugh… I don’t think the poem is as straightforwards as everyone [ well, most ] hopes it to be. Um, i mean, not as a directional map to begin here, follow the dotted line, and find the X that marks the spot.

          • Seeker, I hate to beat a dead horse but Forrest clarified.

            Hello Forrest
            May I ask – is it still true that now, even with searcher numbers doubling in the last year, you still don’t know of anyone who has solved beyond the first two clues?

            Dear Emily
            Searchers continue to figure the first two clues and others arrive there and don’t understand the significance of where they are. f

            I know we have been over this ground before but seems to me he separates searchers from tourists?

          • And then he turned right around and said they sound just like simple words but I felt like an architect when I wrote that poem or something to that effect. Is he saying that it is not as straight forward and simple as the words imply? imo

  42. Seeker
    My measurements are primarily from Google Earth backed up by other literature that indicates distances between point A and B. All I have used is the poem, GE, a good tope map and a minimal bit of research on-line.

  43. JL
    For me, “In the wood” is the bow that ties the package all together. I have a specific meaning for “wood”…actually 4 meanings, but they all apply to a specific location. My “wood” refers back to line one “In there” My “wood” becomes my “there” – circular architecture, each reading getting me to an exact location within a defined area.

    • That was how I once had my solve also, and I can use it again when I am in the proper area if need be. I can also see the poem as linear with a beginning and a end. I can find different answers for every clue in the poem, but in my opinion there is only one correct answer. Never hurts to have a back up plan I guess.

    • I think you have something there JD,
      Wood for me has a few meanings all in the same area & sort of confirmation of where TC is. Don’t understand:
      “each reading getting me to an exact location within a defined area.”

  44. Forest tells us to read the poem over and over – read TTOTC and then reread the poem over and over. By doing this clue #9 flows into clue #1. 1st reading “as I went alone in there…”There is somewhere” – not sure yet. Once you get to clue #9 “wood” has a meaning. Substitute this new meaning for there. As I went in (to) a wood thicket perhaps…and through the poem again. Possibly wood will take on a new meaning this time. For me, I kept getting closer and closer to KNOWING that I was at an exact spot once I finished. Now all I have to do is wait for spring, and to go to that EXACT spot…. COME ON SPRING!

  45. I do not think we have to wait until spring to find the treasure chest. The reason why Mr. Fenn has said to wait is , I think, because some searchers like to go into the mountains and search for the chest. The chest can be found all year long no matter the season. If it is snowing,raining, or whatever the weather is the treasure can be retrieved if you know exactly where it is. If I have read the poem correctly, and I think I have, then a searcher only needs to be brave and go get it. All of this is my opinion. RC.

    • I guess that would be dependent on your solve and how many resources you have available. I think I could get it now also but I have spent many years working in the cold and snow. I have learned over the years that as snow levels and cold increases so does the amount of time it takes to accomplish any task outside. The level of safety decreases and the amount of daylight available to you is significantly decreased also. For me its a matter of percentages so I wait for a more optimum time .imo

  46. I think you can park your car next to the treasure chest and go get if I am not mistaken. If someone has solve all the way to clue #4 then, there are two ways to solve the poem. The easy way, and then the not so easy way. Does anyone follow this? This is my opinion, and only my opinion. RC.

    • RC –

      I’m with you a 100 %…….. I think there is an easy way and a hard way…and they both lead to the treasure. Think and analyze are two different things. Good luck to you.

    • Rc in my opinion there’s no way you can park your car or jeep beside the chest and get out and retrieve it you are going to have to hike plane and simple I think forrest put it in a place to walk and enjoy nature smell the surrounding listen to woods and come spring time I will do my final attempt i have had a few in 5years

  47. LOL, RC,

    I have contemplated that a great deal!!

    It does seem possible that, in that respect, the Poem could have a duality of meaning depending upon the perspective. Since I cannot totally rule out either one, I must give equal consideration to both.

    It is possible that, if solved by identifying points on a map and/or BOTG, the Poem leads you directly to the chest….the hard way?

    Also possible, seeing it perhaps from a child’s perspective, is that the Poem leads you to where the “secret where” is kept and, once you have that, you can go and retrieve the chest with no problem….the easy way?

    Figure it out yet, Seeker?? 🙂 🙂 (if you can rule one out for me, I’ll buy ya a steak dinner)

    • As you stated Loco, you can’t rule out much at this point. However the odds are against one driving straight to the spot the chest lays in wait…
      Fenn’s original intent, and IF at all possible may still be, his final resting place.
      With that alone in mind, would you want Parents, with little Sally jean, and Joe Billy Bob having the capability to ‘drive right up to’ the place Mother nature is working on taking ya back?

      I don’t expect a Steak dinner for my answer, But a coffee [ w/ refills… don’t go cheap on me now ]… and serious consideration would be just fine.

      • LOL! Seeker, I never said you could drive straight to the chest.
        RC’s premise seems to be that you can park beside the chest…..NOT mine.

        I said there was a possibility you could just go and “retrieve” the chest, without any problem.
        That would mean, from wherever you park, that you could confidently walk to the chest, whatever the distance……but no searching will be required.

        And yes, I know Fenn’s original intent was, and IF at all possible may still be, for his final resting place to be where the chest is located… don’t patronize me lil buddy, I ain’t one of your starstruck newbies!!! LOL! 🙂

        I always give your ideas, and questions, serious consideration Seeker…….I just wish you would reciprocate sometimes.

        Coffee….but no refills, this time. You gave me nothing to consider. Your reply was based on a premise I did not voice!!!

        as always, Good Luck to Ya 🙂

        • I thought your inquiry was to drive to the chest… shortest route…my bad.
          As I said, I’m in agreement with you, you can’t rule out much at this point.

          What we have been told is fenn walk less than a few miles… More than likely that is the shortest route to be taken, IF you know where the chest is located scenario.

          Otherwise, the only way to locate the chest is to understand the clues in the poem, hence most likely the long route.

          Now back to the “know where the chest” is scenario, or know beforehand. I can’t honestly say that the job of retrieving the chest is completely understood prior.
          It does seem that way, with the comment “know beforehand” However, if this chest is hidden so well that it can’t be stumbled across… you have to ask yourself what in the poem leads to a 10″ spot? Is it simply the blaze as a marker or is there something we need to finish on sight to find it?

          If a child can answer those questions, I’d like to talk to him. This is not the first time you reference ” a child perspective” I have attempted to look at it from that angle, But truthfully i’m lost.
          Of course fenn’s 9 -10 year old child, is not a 9 -10 year old child of today either. Is the poem written for a kid of yesteryears to understand… maybe even before fenn’s time?

    • @ Loco, and RC,
      Just a simple question, that I hope will be answered. Would that not be a shortcut? I am new here, but didn’t ff say “No short cuts”? How do you reconcile the statement? Thanks

      • @ Yiga What statement are you referring to? I want to be on the same page when I answer a question. RC.

        • @RC,

          Sorry if my thought was not clear. I was asking in reference to the peom having the long and complicated solution and also having the simple fast track. To me the simple fast track would be a short cut, but ff has said not shortcuts. Just curious.


      • @yiga, sorry for the late reply.

        Shortcut?? Absolutely not!

        I’m merely looking at the Poem with the view that it could possibly be solved without needing BOTG searching for answers to one or more clues and/or the chest itself.

        Aaannnd, before everyone starts in that it is impossible, I am NOT saying that it can done in that manner. I’m just looking at the Poem from a different perspective. I keep both options open– BOTG needed and not needed!!

        “If” it can be solved in the manner in which I am pursuing, it would enable one to walk confidently to the chest, from their car, regardless of distance that is required to be walked.

        But, you definitely still have to solve the Poem… shortcuts.


        • Loco – I too have given a lot of thought and consideration to both ways; botg and just figure out the poem and go straight to it. I find f’s comment that “you just need to think the right things” would lead to the possibility of just go straight to it. But what causes you to think the right things? Perhaps it is the botg that get the thinking where it needs to be. I would state that those within 200 feet have not been thinking the right things to find it and have thus missed it, even though they were so close. So I suspect that even once you are within 200 feet, it is going to take a lot of observing and thinking about the area, as related to the poem, that will unlock the final clue(s) for walking those last few hundred feet to the chest.

          • JCM, I see it as you should be doing a lot of looking and searching before you get within that 200′, so you know what you will be looking for. Getting within 200′ of something possibly being subjected to nature’s whims may not allow you to see a box of that size. You have to know more about the details of that spot (maybe why you are at that PARTICULAR spot) before you get there.

  48. My $.02 worth…My view is that the first two clues give you the location to go to and the other seven are directions to the chest…Why?

    (1) Some solved the first 2 clues but didn’t know it and walked by the other 7… They told ff where they were in e-mails, their location…Why were they there to begin with if they didn’t know?…What’s the draw?…

    (2) Some have been within 200 feet but unaware…How did they arrive there without knowing the first 2 clues?…Were they not searching when there?…If not, why go there?…

    (3) Some arrived there not knowing the significance of the place…Weren’t they following the poem?…Does this location really fit the picture the poem describes reading literally?…Why/why not?…

    (4) People continue to arrive there…Why?…Is this a location regularly visited by many people?…If so, what is it’s appeal?…

    These questions lead me to believe this is a popular location well known by many people but isn’t a place described by a direct interpretation of the poem’s wording…Something must be hidden behind the words…

    IMO, the 1st clue is just that…That information is hidden in the wording of the poem and there is a means to find it…This, I think, is the purpose of the 1st stanza…

    And IMO the 2nd clue is that information, the search location…”Don’t mess with my poem!”…Meaning don’t change anything…But does the poem tell you how to find this info without changing anything?…I think the 2nd stanza does…It gives the instructions…

    I do know of a particular operation or method that does reveal a named location… There is no refuting it, it is there…It is very precise and it works…It starts exactly WWWH…It answers all the above questions when revealed…I can also understand why ff has a connection to this place…

    So, to me, the 2nd clue reveals where to go, but there are 7 more clues for a BOTG search…Still no picnic…

    Oh, I don’t mind saying that this location is in Wyoming and definitely in the overall search map area…Sorry NM people…I don’t believe ff hid it anywhere near his home…Think he took time to go trout fishing while on a business trip…Or so he lead others to believe…Just my thoughts…

    Welcome to all the new searchers, enjoy the fray…

  49. As I said before if the fourth clue is the home of Brown, then whoever has solved the fourth clue has solved where the treasure is. But how do you get from the first clue to the home of Brown. Well that is the million dollar question, is it not? But how do you know that you know that that is the right solution? Mr. Fenn is not talking , or isn’t he? Maybe we should hear, and listen well to what he’s telling us. Is that Mr. Fenn talking to us in the poem, or is it someone else? HHmmmmm, that would be interesting! wouldn’t it? Its my opinion only, RC.

      • I’ve said that many times in the past. If you read the first part of the poem as someone speaking to Fenn, then you get an entirely different perspective.

        In this case, “take the chest and go in peace”, is what I call the spirit-person telling Fenn where to take the chest. It is NOT Fenn telling us to take the chest and go home.

        Scott W.

        • Lets take that a step further…

          IF the poem is about someone or something other than fenn [ at least in part ]. Could the 9 clues be something different then just 9 clues. Most like the first three clues as the first sentence in the second stanza… ok three clues telling what? Are they three different places or three clues that tells us of same place.

          First three clues same place, clue 4 second place, clue 5- 6-7-8 a third place, Clue 9 final resting place. How many “places” do the clues refer too, Why does each clue have to be a separate place?

          • @seeker,
            Or is it that the clue has self confirmations within it? 3 lines in stanza 2 each with similar or synonymous answers, confirming the correct clue.

          • My thoughts as to how I am going with this are leaving me confused regarding a specific 9 clues.
            For instance, the name of a place might have 2 clues, one for each word in the place name. Does a person count that as 1 clue? or 2?
            And if something just hints at a confirmation is that really a clue? Or is it just some poetic play?
            This poem is full of wordplay. Where I am at now in my thoughts I probably see MORE than 9 clues (and I am not certain that I am seeing everything, but maybe so.)
            But then language is tricky, and coincidences abound.

          • @” Debbie But then language is tricky, and coincidences abound.”
            I once added up all the coincidences I found for one very important clue and it totaled 16 in all. At what point does a coincidence become a consequence?

          • Seeker,

            I’m with you there. It really could be multiple clues to describe each “place”.

            An example I have posted in the past is WWWH AND take it in the canyon down.

            If you parse this in such a way, you will see that warm waters do two things to “it”. First they halt “it”, then they take “it”.

            So the sentence could just as easily read – Begin it where warm waters halt it and take it in the canyon down.

            This completely changes the interpretation from a place and an action, to a singular place described by the two actions that the warm waters do.

            Then, the next line, “Not Far but too far to walk”, might be an additional descriptor of the above clues. So let’s assume it is describing the canyon. Perhaps Ten Sleep Canyon is the canyon that is not far but too far to walk. It is too far to walk because the distance is measured in units of “sleep”, not units of distance.

            Somewhere in the past (many moons ago) I posted something similar to the above, but with more detail.

            All of the above is just an example pertaining to the discussion. No known facts yet.

            Scott W.

          • JL, I guess when they all tie in together…but my problem is that they do all seem to tie in together (and still make sense!)

    • The all seeing eye that watched Fenn deposit the gold says “the answers I already know”

  50. I went in there alone; “just talking.” Begin it where warm waters halt! That’s the important key to the solve! Start here and take in the Canyon Down! Clue Two. Then people passed the other 7, not know where they were!

    • Yes!

      “Keep going until you reach the Home of Brown” – clue 3

      “Put in and head for No Place for the Meek” – clue 4

      (all my opinion, of course) 🙂

      • As far as the “path” goes, I don’t see HoB as a clue.
        1. WWWH
        2. canyon down
        3. meek
        4. blaze
        “Putting in below” is too general of an area. might as well said “put in below Canada”. Too general and not specific enough for a “path”.
        But, it is below the home of Brown.:) If you’re walking South. Meaning it’s North of HoB. IMCHO.

        • Here’s how I see it, Charlie…

          First, FF gives us an initial point – WWWH. Then, he gives us a direction – Canyon Down. Then, he tells us how far to go – to the HoB. If the Home of Brown is something specific – say, a building, lake, or hill – then the put-in below makes good sense, he’s telling us to go past it (remember, we’re going “down” a canyon, so below would be past).

          Also, many canyons in the Rockies run to the north, as do many creeks and rivers (just look at how far north the Missouri goes before heading east and south). So, in my scenario, going north is going down the canyon (“my” canyon loses elevation as you go north). And like the river next to my Home of Brown, continuing north puts you past HoB and leaves you at a very interesting put-in, as described by the local hunters and fishermen.

          IMHO – again – the next set of instructions follows the same logic – Initial point: “put-in below HoB” (put-in as a noun, as any canoe paddler or hunter would use it). Direction – towards the land that is “no place for the meek”. Distance – “end is nigh; no paddle up your creek”

          All of this is my opinion, of course.

          • Ohopps… you stopped at the creek. You need to go UP that creek. He sez there’ll be no paddle…. (as in THERE WILL BE …) when you get there.

          • Well, yeah – you need to get to the creek in order to go up it. 🙂

            Unfortunately for me, the 4 feet of snow is keeping me from going up my creek, a bed full of heavy loads that also has plenty of high water during runoff season:

            Guess it will be June before I can venture up there again.

  51. Does anyone know who Mr. Fenn would choose to forgive for their sins? In the book TTOTC , in the “My war for me” story he talks about where he stumbled upon a crudely made grave marker probably of a French soldier. It said something about forgiving a sinner. If any of you were Mr. Fenn what sinner would you forgive? If anyone has an idea who it would be, then, I think, the answer would shed a little light on the subject, pun intended. My opinion, and my opinion only. RC.

    • @RC, I’ve been finding stuff that lead in that direction. I’m sure saying this people will take it the wrong way, but, I get: Forrest Fenn, Peggy ate sin willful devil, William Fenn ( don’t know which one yet, think it’s father), and Trust.
      I tend not to put too much weight on it because it doesn’t really help with finding the chest. But, it’s what I’ve found. Probibly nothing.

    • There a close resemblance to the grave stone and a bell that he made as far as the words on it. Mostly about a task which should be performed. The stone says “IF YOU SHOULD EVER THINK OF ME
      Forrest has also made a bronze bell that said something like if you wish to please my ghost ring the bell a think of me or something like that. I’m think Forrest got a lot of inspiration out of the grave stone. If anyone here has not read the chapter “my war for me” that he published on line in 06 I would highly recommend it. IMO its 10x better then what he put in TTOTC but only about 30 percent different.

      • Hey Count
        It is in TTOTC, My War For Me takes up half of this book. TFTW only has 28 lines. Very interesting and i already have that down with my LM notes together.

        • There are 2 versions of that chapter one that is in TTOTC published in 2010 and the other version he sent to the 85th in 06, but appears to be written in 04. The version I’m speaking of is the one he sent to the 85th. If there is not a link on the media page I can post one but very few people read it a the way through and noticed the difference. To me it appears to be the unedited version and there are other chapters that one can find that appear unedited as well.

  52. Just a reminder that we only have 10 more days in the T-shirt Design Contest. If you have not looked at the designs recently please go to the top of this page…the tabs under the header photo…far right tab…Sacha’s T-Shirt Contest.

    If you want to vote for your favorite T-shirt you need to make a comment on the contest entry page..Your comment today gives you the right to vote later.

  53. Charlie, I finally had time to research nickel, but am clueless as to how you believe it ties to wwwh, unless you’re referring to meteor nickel from outer space. My wwwh is more in line with wash ‘basins’ referred to in TTOTC and as a land form. I did however enjoy reading about the history of US nickel coinage, and have always loved the artistry and beauty of old coins.

    Here is one possible “in the wood” [from 1913 the buffalo nickel] that I haven’t previously seen listed on blogs that is historically interesting to me:

    The identities of the models for the Native American on the obverse and for the bison on the reverse are not known with certainty. Fraser stressed that the Indian was a type, rather than based on a specific individual, and identified various Native Americans as models, not always consistently, including Iron Tail, Two Moons,[79] and “BIG TREE” (of the Kiowa people).[80] There have been other claimants, the most prominent being John Big Tree, a Seneca, who made many public appearances as the “nickel Indian” until his death in 1967.[81] Fraser recounted that the animal on the reverse was an American bison, Black Diamond, whom he stated lived at the Bronx Zoo, and also described the model simply as a bison at the Bronx Zoo.[82] However, Black Diamond was never at the Bronx Zoo, but instead lived at the Central Park Zoo (both facilities are in New York City) until the animal was sold and slaughtered in 1915. The pla

    • Ok Lia,
      I’ve been reading this a lot today and I have to let you and seeker and Travis this,after searching out FLW i have found that he has built in Cody WY and Pecos in NM. He is one of the worlds best architect. He also built the Main art gallery in NYC that FF has been to and has quotes about nature and construction that “mirrors” FF. I’ve been on Wiki, Pin, and a few others i can’t remember..So Travis, I wouldn’t be counting out WY as of yet.
      I also found out that w w is created in an arroyo and or a dry bed canyon.. The flash floods run over the sand and rocks and pebbels that at times reaches 130 degrees and becomes very warm water until it gets to a river or lake the eventually cools it back down ( wwwh ). FF never said if it was running water ( rivers, lakes or creeks ) or if the warm water was short term. This has now got me looking over my solve #11. HELP i’m drowning in a dry bed…

    • Lia
      That’s interesting, as Tarry used in a poetic style means Blackened..Maybe a Blackened stone as a marker.. I kind of like that as my Blaze is white. Mirror opposites .IMO

      • Charlie, colo, swott…
        Thanks. I appreciate the numbers help. Although, not ever enough time or brain power for this gal to figure out how to apply everyrhing which could be applicable. Overwhelming.

  54. Tim, yours is a solid interpretation – short black stone fits tarry s.cant.
    The jury is still out for me as to whether mirror images are only important in the memoirs and poem or if that concept must also applied to the ground search. Specifically, could ‘look quickly down’ actually mean look up and could ‘put in below’ mean above? How do we know the rules?

    @ ANYONE [Thanks in advance if you can help direct me where]

    I’m Looking for word counts, number counts in the poem. Anyone remember a post??? Perhaps Astree or Chris Yates?
    Can anyone confirm the total word count inTTOTC as 8008???

      • Is that the total number of words used or the total number of distinct words used?

        IE: I like apples. = 3 total words and 3 distinct words.

        I like apples and I like banannas and I like peaches. = 10 total words and 6 distinct words.


        • There are roughly 4,480 unique words. This number includes about 90 unique numbers and years.

          The below word count found in TTOTC:

          I = 890
          like = 88 / likely = 1 / liked = 6 / liking = 1
          apple(s) = 2
          and = 954
          peach(es) = 0
          banana(s) = 0

          • CJinCA
            on February 2, 2016 at 4:19 pm said:
            Colokidd, do you have a digital file of TTOTC – how did you count words, etc?


            Yes, I have a digital file. I wrote several functions to parse, count, hilight and sort any and all words within the whole book or chapter by chapter.

          • Lucky dog! I wish I had a digital file. I thought even MS Word could do some counting of words and search out specific phrases you might want to look up.

    • @LIA, I think the word count in TTOTC is 28,800. (from memory). If you’ve found 8008, well very good. That is the exact elevation of the coordinates. (IMCHO). You can get that number from adding the 9 line numbers you used to get those coordinates. lines: 3,4,5,6,8,20,22,23,24. Adding by stanza: 3+4=7/ 5+6+8=19=1+9=10=1+0=1/ 0 / 0 / 20=2+0=2 / 22+23+24=69=6+9=15=1+5=6. So, 7,1,0,0,2,6,or 8008. (all IMO)

      • hey charlie
        this could be nothing or something, who knows. Have you looked at the numbers on the $5 dollar bill on s/b 107?
        JL 2-2-1-0-7-7-8-2-0
        Really? Could FF have done something like that on accident? I think not. I’m sure he chose his words very very carefully. IMO
        9 clues 9 numbers close to yours..
        wonder what the JL means to him on the $5 dollar bill?

    • Thanks Lia but don’t put the mirrors out just yet..Remember that FF said that he Loves his special place and there’s no other place he would ever want to live but yet F goes on to say at a later date that Santa Fe is the greatest place to live and have a business on earth. Montana, all mountains and grass lands and Santa Fe mountains and desert, opposites . there is more but not in the open.
      ok 1 more – not buried, just hidden!!

      • JP,
        I can’t believe you took the time to lay it out with such detail & post it.
        Looks pretty accurate to me.
        Could you add words that sound the same but different spelling?

        • I only compiled it to prove a point to myself, so I’m kind of done with it for my own purposes. But feel free to download it and modify it any way you’d like.

      • Jeremy, it’s super generous of you (and the others) to share your well organized, accurate counts. a thousand thanks.

        • Oh just that Forrest will be less certain his chest is there because I’m currently headed to search. Don’t worry I’ve been out in the Rockies in winter before. Only Forrest knows if it’s possible to get through the 4ft of ice 🙂 Did I bring a jackhammer?

          • Search – – same old tune, different verse. Please tell someone where to look for you and post a security deposit to defry cost of the search for “Search”.

          • Try not to damage the chest with the jackhammer!
            I thought for a second maybe I can go retrieve it in the winter but then thought about 4 ft of snow & no telling how many inches or ft of ice. Hiking a mile and a half through snow & ice is no fun & dangerous especially up the creek, then you have to get back to the vehicle safely. Hope you have a snowmobile, shovel, ice pick, plenty of hand warmers & allot of good luck.

    • Not a chance Jim! Why would I want others to know where millions of dollars lie. Your effort will be worth the cold….but but he said not to search in the winter….well then maybe he’d like to explain THAT line to folks. My name is a little deceptive because I ain’t searchin anymore 🙂 I know exactly where I’m going. I can’t guarantee recovery on this trip I just need to verify something. IMO Alll of this is just my opinion and my opinion only as RC would say.

      • Search – you use words like trippy, numb and ice. Honestly, it sounds like you’re on drugs! (Just funning with you.) If you’ve really solved the poem in its entirety then I hope you find it. But please, stay off the drugs.

        • I see where your goin with that….yea man I’m flyin high! When your searching near a maximum security federal prison it’s best to go in after dark and the more snow there is the better 🙂 just kiddin Spoon I’m in the zone….could see temps down around zero or below with wind chill factor.

          • GOOD LUCK,
            but really make sure you tell someone when you plan on being back just in case. Its fierce out there, I just spent 5 hrs plowing my driveway, probably got 3 1/2 to 4′ of snow in the last 36 hrs.

          • Please tell me you’re just being clever with your words and not stupid enough to be out searching in sub-zero weather. I’m beginning to think you’re stirring the pot again.

  55. I do think that someone, as I said before, could drive their car close to the treasure chest, get down, and do a little work and get it. Without being arrogant, but going with confidence( look up the meaning of confidence) a searcher may go as confidant as on may be without actually having the treasure on their hands, and go retrieve it. This is my opinion and my opinion only. RC.

  56. Your efforts will be worth the cold…GOLD! Not referring to weather. Sounds like someone will be searching in water, F said it was “wet”, but “in the mountains, everything is wet”.
    Again, if people would research ALL that F has said, they will realize that if the chest is exposed to the elements…fire, rain, snow, mud slides, earthquakes, toronados…it’s NOT SUBMURGED!!!
    And, F states he will “lay his body over the chest in the sun.” SO definately NOT in water!
    Take heed F’s words, stay home through the winter, be safe. Randy’s actions have proved no one is Superman, and we are all mortal, and most of all, put safety first!

    • Donna- your effort will be worth the cold GOLD
      Reminds me of the story in which he let the children touch the bronze(?) statue and he asked them if it felt cold. Metal will feel cold to the touch. Maybe he meant the cold is the gold. Is this what you were saying? and just in case… IMO

      • ALOPES…(Oops!–prev statement and this one = IMO)
        YES! Exactly what I meant!

        You wouldn’t take a 3yr old ACROSS (not a “dangerous location”) water high, Indulgence is there as you REACH water high. Then, you see the blaze, IF you’ve been wise to get to THAT point, the blaze, look quickly down. The treasure is there for a 3yr old to find (low) but would need help picking up.
        Effort worth the cold/ (bronze chest full of gold), open it, your hands reach into wood lined chest, hidden in the woods = you get title to gold once you touch it, it’s yours!
        (Or, if F’s body were lying over the chest, you get BRAVE and move it to open the chest.)
        ALL IMO
        BE SAFE
        ¥Peace ¥

        • Donna- I like your interpretation of Brave. It is the most logical and simple explanation for brave that I have come across yet. Be safe as well and happy searching 🙂

  57. Mr. Fenn keeps saying that nobody will happen upon the treasure chest. To happen upon something means, to me, to find something unexpectedly. That being said, the person who finds the treasure will have gone with the purpose of finding it. They will, in my opinion, know what they need to do once they get to where they were going. Nothing will be up to chance, not the place, or the way the chest will be retrieved. So I say this to all, and any searchers, or researchers if you are not mostly sure, whatever that means, of your solve, they you are wrong. I repeat if you have doubts that the treasure is there, then it won’t be there. The poem leads you to the treasure, but if you cannot find your way in the poem you are reading it in the wrong way. Only those who look at the poem closely will see. Will you be the searcher who thinks the poem cannot be beaten, or will you go beyond and see? You choose. All this is my opinion, and opinion only. RC.

    • RC,

      It is my opinion that you are correct in your assertion that Mr. Fenn has said “that nobody will happen upon the treasure chest” in the wild. I would also assert that even if you did not have the poem or even know of the poem, you would not stumble upon the chest. It is also my opinion that in hiding the chest, Mr. Fenn put Indulgence in a spot that cannot be stumbled upon – you have to be actively searching out this piece of geography for some reason, which may simply be curiosity, to find it setting there for you to behold. In my mind, this is a big hint in helping to determine where the poem is trying to lead folks.

      This is also why folks can be in the neighborhod of 200 feet of the chest and not know it. That is, that you have to be looking for it; you’re not goiong to trip over it. And if you don’t know about the poem – what might you be looking for when you do find it? I suspect that searching has a large part in the discovery of Indulgence.

      “Olly, olly, oxen free.” 🙂 (Alle, Alle, auch sind frei)

      • swwot, I don’t agree. If it is out in the open, it could very easily become covered with leaves. You could trip over it just walking where you might walk (for whatever reason you might need or choose to walk there.)
        As far as Forrest knowing that someone has been that close, if it were searchers he was speaking of, it may be that they have communicated pictures to him of their search, or since many post photos on-line of their travels (along with notations of locations), he may be seeking out such postings.

        • Howdy Debbie,

          The fun part of this chase is that neither of us may be thinking correctly. 🙂

          Concerning proximity of searchers, I wasn’t trying to rehash how Forrest knows they were that close, rather, that the searchers were not “searching correctly” or “in the correct manner” to find the chest. It’s not that they weren’t looking, or looking in the right places or directions – it’s more of a hunch I have that one has to put themselves in a different mindset to find Indulgence. It’s my opinion that the person that finds Indulgence is going to be looking at the search area from a different perspective. (And I don’t mean from the use of drugs.) Perhaps even getting to the stash area from that different perspective.

          And that’s why I think Mr. Fenn has said over and over again, read and reread my poem – it’s in there – or something to that effect. But these are simply my simple opinions about a puzzle that for now has me flummoxed.

          • Hello swwot…

            I agree with you about needing a different mindset to solve ff’s poem…I believe the winning solve will appear totally alien and unbelievable to most searchers… IMO it will not remotely resemble the idea most have of where ff’s secret spot lies…

            I left the box long ago and have a totally different way of reading and interpreting the poem…I can honestly say that nothing in the poem is what it seems to be, therefore my solve differs greatly from others…

            To presume that the wording in the poem reference mere land features to follow shows little regard for ff’s imagination and prowess IMO…I have only admiration and respect for his ability to use that which people may presume to confound and confuse them…There is much more to the poem than what meets the eye…That should be evident…

            To my way of thinking there are two different levels to be worked…Two separate interpretations of the 9 clues using variant word meanings…The first is to find where to go, the search location…The second is to follow the directions given BOTG to the chest…This is what I infer from ‘read and reread’ the poem…Gotta work through it twice for a winning solve IMO…

            Haven’t seen anyone lately list their 9 clues on here…With many new searchers aboard maybe it would help some of them to know how others view the poem…Here are my 9 clues as I use them…If something here is useful to anyone then more power to ya…I already know where I will go look…I have one solve and one place to go…That is enough for me…

            1.) As I have gone alone in there and with my treasures bold, I can keep my secret where and hint of riches new and old.
            2.) Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down, not far, but too far to walk.
            3.) Put in below the home of Brown.
            4.) From there it’s no place for the meek,
            5.) The end is ever drawing nigh;
            6.) There’ll be no paddle up your creek, just heavy loads and water high.
            7.) If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
            8.) Look quickly down, your quest to cease,
            9.) But tarry scant with marvel gaze, just take the chest and go in peace.

            I have a single variation of one clue above that I use for the two different levels I have worked the poem…The variation doesn’t change the number of clues, there are still only 9 in either case…

            Best of luck to all searchers in the thrill of the chase…


          • 🙂 Hello Sam,

            You said, “Gotta work through it twice for a winning solve IMO…”

            And, you say you have a location. Guess that means you worked through it once completely to arrive at that location?

            How many of the nine clues have you solved correctly in the second work-thru, which will take you to the chest?? One?…. 3 or 4?……7 or 8??

            I’m not interested in knowing your location or solution to clues…..just how many you think you have solved correctly….

            Thanks ahead of time!…………loco 🙂

          • Howdy Sam,

            You’re waaaaaaaaaaay ahead of me at this stage of my solve. I’m still working on which might be the correct perspective I need to achieve to see things as I ought to. There seem to be many ways to “take” or read the poem – none of which can be discounted as one begins to delve into the chase. As a relative “newbie” (only been here since late June of 15) I am still trying to gather all the evidence, as they say, to then sort through it all.

            I will confess that my earlier solves did not hold water, and I have come to realize that this puzzle is not for those easily dissuaded.

            Good luck to you as you head into the wilds to seek Indulgence!

          • swwot, the way I look at it, is that:

            If you are actually seeking the treasure, you have to read and reread the poem to understand it and accurately decipher its clues. The reason I say that is that in my area of the solve there are so MANY things that could lead you astray…the area is UBELIEVABLY rich (pardon the word) with things that relate to the poem (and that relate to him.)

            If you are not looking for the treasure, it could very easily be stumbled upon (a small child could find it), but it’s exact location would be unlikely to be traveled. (There’s a lot of acreage there in “them thar hills…”)

            Getting back to that UNBELIEVABLY rich thought, in the area that I have deemed to be the searchable one, I am amazed that I have only seen one person in these postings to ever mention it. I have only been looking for the treasure (online) for 1 week. The spot I am considering is loaded with things that should make everyone’s head spin and alarms go off.

            As for the number of clues, I can’t really determine how many I have solved. In my eyes, there are MORE than nine, but then I have always been good at seeing things that one can attribute to coincidence, some of which Forrest may not have seen as he wrote it, or quite simply, it was not one of his “intended” clues. The best I can say is that I am studying the last stanza, trying to determine if it has something that I am missing. I might have enough to actually go BOTG now. I’m not sure. I know he has said that if one has correctly deciphered the clues, that person should be able to go right up to it (more or less, that quote may not be word for word.) But as a searcher, that might be that once you get within so many feet of it (say those 200 ft), if you have thoroughly understood the poem, you might see something that should click and put you within 10′ or 5′ or 1′ that you would actually see it if you were to remove nature’s debris.

          • Also in my solution, there is something(s) that can be seen at some difficult point(s) if you backtrack through the poem (re-read.)

          • I’m happy for you and good luck. But 1st FF has said no one including a child will just happen on it. That won’t happen.
            2nd. You may be good at what you are saying but do not take FF for anything less than a born genius. He spent years putting this poem together and I would stake my life that he DID NOT MISS OR FORGET “ANYTHING’. Your a searcher and I applauded you for that. But we have all read, reread at bunch of times and put clues in and out. I and others have put BOTG a few times. I wish you the best but hurry JD hit the road today he said to go straight to the treasure. He even said he might not stop, just drive straight thru to the treasure and he sounded like he has a very good solve.

          • Tim, I never meant to diminish the genius within his poem. In fact, I am awed by the complexity, not just of the scheme of the puzzle, but by the artistry of the poetic aspects.
            But don’t underestimate the complexity of language. (In his poem, Forrest himself illustrates how involved language can be.)
            It would be impossible for him to perceive that which all others might perceive in his words. He also seems to be surprised at the analyzation that some people have applied to his words, almost implying that some over analyzing. That in itself confirms that he could not have perceived all that other might have taken from his words.

          • Hi Debbie
            Ok sorry I read you wrong. I went and read the 6 question with FF and (sorry mark) the interpretation that mark has of those are wayyy off. FF never said anything like what mark had said. Especially 3Q. You should just read them. Very helpful. IMHO

          • Also, I could be wrong, in Forrest’s statement, he did not say that a child COULD NOT happen upon, but implied that it was very unlikely.
            In reality, Forrest has no way to predict that with any certainty.
            For example, if it is hidden in such a way that a child could not physically remove some obstacle hiding it, perhaps nature or someone else would have previously and not even realize they had uncovered something. Or if it is very visible at its “hiding” spot, but remote enough that one would think that a child should not be out there (at least alone), who’s to say that children don’t get lost in the woods by some freak occurrence. (Even a small plane crash could strand a child somewhere.)

    • No one will “happen” upon it because local legend here in Santa Fe has it that Fenn was quite the hiker. Probably still is, and certainly was known for his good shape in his 70s. Remember the 80 year old who climbed Everest not too long ago.

      • Hello Stephan….have you and the lads found another Blaze or did you retire? 🙂

        Say, would you be a sport and print the whole poem: even though a little poem from “f” says “he won’t even need a tool, as he carries out the chest.” 🙂

        LOL!! Good to know you’re still around. Good Luck to you and the lads!!! 🙂

        • Hi Locolobo,

          Me and the lads are never far from the hearts and minds of fellow pirates or wolves like yourself, and though we are still sprite like with the lasses as ever, we haven’t been otherwise piratin’ about much lately. But we did find a Brown that no one else has follered. He ended up once upon a time on the Dark Continent, a veritable haven for pirates, but he was in fact a perfesser of something or other who studied brown bears in the wild west days. He was pretty wise too and knew his way around a Sharp(s) rifle.

          And no, you won’t need a tool as you carry out the chest, and also, your warm water better go from being in motion to physically halting, and not just changing temperature, or ceasing to be warm. I had that to from f long afore he was all famous-like, ‘cos I am indeed a true old-timer hyar.

          • Stephan,

            Thank ye kindly for the words, they are much appreciated. They give much to contemplate, especially as they come from a lad who has sat at f’s right hand.

            Although most don’t know ye, I tip me hat to you…..for yes, you are truly one of the old-timers hyar.

            Until such time as I might buy ye a cup of grog…..Thanks, again. (and the lasses are not a treasure to be taken lightly, either! 🙂 :)  )

            fair winds and smooth sailin’ to ya………loco

  58. I think Indulgence is pretty safe while it’s buried under 3 or 4 feet of snow. It’s frustrating to sit here week after week and watch those snow clouds roll in. Darn that El Nino!

    • voxpops –

      I understand about the snow – but just think of draught stricken Calif. needing all this CO snow. At minus 7 last night – I’m out of here – headed for Texas. 🙂

      • Oh, you’re absolutely right, inthechaseto, the increased snowpack this year is a real blessing for the whole of the West. I’m just grumbling selfishly – itching to get back out there.

  59. Hello, I’m a 12 yr. old girl who recently started doing research about the treasure chest and where it is hidden. II just want to share what I had tracked so far. I think the treasure is located in Colorado. Explanation: The warm waters halt… well the river called Rio Grande flows from the Rocky Mountains base of the Canby Mountains which is north of Santa Fe then down to the San Luis Valley then south into new mexico.In New Mexico, the river flows through the Rio Grande rift from one sediment-filled basin to another, cutting canyons between the basins. Based on the poem it says “then take it on the canyon down” so I figured this got to be it. Also the sea level of the river el paso… where the river rio rande flows has a sea level of 1,147 m. After that, the river then flows to the gulf of mexico where a town called BROWNSVILLE is located near it. So i figured if people start from the gulf then go all the way up the river until you reach the other end of the river which is in colorado (rocky mountains) then maybe JUST MAYBE IF MY INFERENCE IS RIGHT… the treasure might be hidden there…. pls. don’t hate i’m merely just a 12 yr. old girl interested in researching this. And I really putted effort in it

    • Welcome to the Chase, Camille! No one has found the chest in the last five or six years of hunting so you have as good a chance as anyone. Keep at it!

    • Welcome to the chase Camille Espinola, sounds like you’ve put a lot of thought into it. Sounds like a good plan. Good luck to you while you chase your dreams…. Until next time …..see ya

    • You’re merely 12? Your post puts mine to shame. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders… I’m impressed already, and that is not an easy thing to do. Good luck in the chase.

    • Welcome Camille,

      Many here on this blog might be envious of you because of your age, for many reasons, one of which is your child-like insight. 🙂

      Good luck as you work your solve!

    • Welcome to the chase Camille, sounds like you have some very good ideas. I be live your insight will be helpful around here. I think this is just what this place needs some young and fresh ideas.

    • Hi Camille, you’re thinking and research is some of the most logical I have seen posted to date. Keep up the good work and good luck in your search.

    • Hi, Camille 🙂 Welcome to the Chase! I hope that you have a lot of wonderful adventures searching for the chest. Good luck and be safe!

  60. welcome to the chase Camille. But i was wondering , n
    instead of following up the rio grand to where it ends why could i not just go there and search around.

  61. I give you title to the gold.
    I have been thinking ,and want to throw this out there, and get some feedback from you guys. What if,” I give you Title to the gold ” is the place the chest rest’s which may not necessarily be where your physical location is at “brave and in the wood”.
    Suppose the whole poem is about the wild’s and wonder’s of the Rockies and Forrest means for us ,to explore, learn and enjoy before he gives you Title to where the gold lays, not Title as in a legal document. The only way to get to that title is to explore and learn about nine different places (clues) that lead to the end . If this is correct ,and I’m not saying it is, but that could take you outside and back into the High lighted area of the map several time’s.

    • Lisa, I believe that FF has said that the chest is physically located at the place revealed in the poem (i.e. if you solve clue 9, you can go and retrieve it directly).

      As far as going in and out of the search area, I don’t believe that it’s the kind of treasure hunt where arriving at a clue’s location reveals a new set of directions. IMO, of course.

      • Voxpops, you said ” I don’t believe that it’s the kind of treasure hunt where arriving at a clue’s location reveals a new set of directions”
        My question then becomes how could anyone know what heavy loads and water high means?
        I guess what I’m saying is, no matter where you are standing in the Rockies Below a HOB ,there’s going to be water high ((streams,rivers,lakes)and heavy loads (mountains,trains,cars,) depending on how far you go in any direction. It could be a block or a 100 miles. IMO there must be something to make a connection to the previous clue. It could be a river your standing in front of flowing from the NE or it could be a stream a 100 miles NW, or a small lake 20 steps north. But how would you know which one is correct without some sort of connection to the previous clue?

        • What I’m trying to say is that the poem is self-contained. All the clues and locations are contained within it, and there’s no need to be on the ground to discover where to go next – otherwise you could never move with confidence. All IMO.

          • Oh contre my friend Voxpops………

            If I may politely say that I don’t feel “all” is contained in the poem……why did he write two books??

            I know you feel it is not by a road….but, we know he took a car…….and so I feel it is near a road ….. and then within a distance a 80 yr old could walk – twice.

            I also think roads will lead you close to the treasure with research….look up “The Pathfinder of the West”. Absolutely amazing how he is related to the spot.

          • I never said it wasn’t accessible by vehicle – just that it isn’t next to a maintained (read snow-plowed) road.

            The books may or may not be useful to you (I’ve never read them), but the entire set of directions is within the poem, IMO. If I were a gambling man, I would offer odds of 1000:1 that you can find the treasure with just the poem and very good maps (plus a little worldly knowledge).

          • “You have to move your carcass out there, if you can find the treasure chest it won’t be a big job for you to get it.”
            I’m gonna move my carcass out there!

          • Seeker,
            This is one of my favorite interviews Forrest has given. He very clearly states that you do not need to read his books. I especially like that in this interview he says you must “decipher the clues” instead of “follow the clues precisely”.

          • Ken,

            There has been a few comments about the book by fenn… This was the latest of those. Yet the one thing that bothers me, is the comment “know where to start”

            I have been brewing over this as, you need to know where to start to use the 9 clues, and the starting point is the key to understanding the 9 clues. Instead of one clue being the starting point. This is where the book may be helpful / reference usable… the big picture. Well that’s my most brilliant, one of a kind, absolutely, maybe, could be, a possibility of the most likely way to not read the poem correctly.

          • Seeker,
            “Know where to start” is the killer…My head hurt for quite some time on that one. The answer slapped me so hard that it took me two days to remember what it was. My opinion on that is that the first thing you need is in the first line of the poem. That’s my story, and I’m stickin’ with it.
            The comments about the book are only important to stay on track. I personally did not read the books for more than a year. TTOTC helped me confirm my path.

          • Ken,
            I see a starting point in stanza 1 as well… Even a conclusion to the poem for it as well. I’m just not sure if what I see is actually there.

            Now I’m looking at a second possibility. One that deals with the after the fact clues.. Why not in Utah, Idaho, Canada, what is it about the mountains north of SF, why is the first clue a must etc.

            I’m down to a location, yet it’s not finalized to a spot.

          • @ vox, I agree the poem is self contained and that you could possibly find the location without BOG. It would be extremely difficult IMO but holds a slight chance. The search and the poem is a road trip with a purpose IMO. It is designed to get you off the couch and in the country not just the opposite.

            @ Seeker, have you read TTOTC or are you trying to decipher the clues from the poem?

          • Ken, I actually have three “know where to starts” coming off the first 2 lines (one just uses the first line)….and all three of them will related to my path. I’m guessing that maybe two are mere coincidences that I see…or maybe not…perhaps it was intended to be this rich in coincidence, because at some points it may cause one to become overconfident in some choice.

          • JL,

            I read the book a friend let me borrow. But only working on the poem for a solution to the clues.

      • Thanks Tommy, I’m going to try and move in that direction and quit worrying with the map’s highlighted areas.

    • Lisa,
      Hold up, are suggesting ‘title to the gold’ speaks to something other than monetary wealth?
      What about a majestic place were couples can marry outdoors?
      Forrest always says the nicest things about Peggy, with his wife by his side he’s literally been able to have it all.
      There’s a place in the Rockies where folks get married on an amphitheater, plenty of parking, nice paved road, heck I think there is even shuttle bus service.

      BTW, IMO, I’m just going from the photos, and park information I’ve read, I haven’t actually been there.

      You could say that Maroon Bells is similar to a box canyon in the sense that just one road leads in. The elevation looks to be within range, and there are a number of visitors each year to this ‘gorge’

      Much like Yellowstone, in wintertime this place gets buried under snow, not sure how late in the spring it opens.

      ‘Fenn’s hidden treasure is somewhere to be found within the highlighted region of the Rocky Mountains on this map”…I am sometimes confounded by that phrase, because of the separately colored (highlighted) areas within this ‘highlighted region of the Rocky Mtns’

      • They call me 9,
        Hold up, are suggesting ‘title to the gold’ speaks to something other than monetary wealth?
        No that’s not what I was getting at.
        I am suggesting that in the woods ,you will somehow get the title to where the chest is located . The wood’s being a totally separate place than the chest.

    • Lisa, agree totally. But I think you would have to have all 9 clues and then know precisely where the bronze chest resides. Title is important and the correct solution is important to request possession. I would just like to take a glance at Indulgence.

  62. RC,

    Thanks for the reply. I see your reasoning.

    But If I could ask one more question without being a pain.

    If you are able to drive to it, or closely to it. In your opinion could such a trip be possible at this time? With the snow fall as it is? Or another way of asking, in your opinion is it along a plowed or un-plowed road?


    • Yiga, I’ll let RC speak for himself, but it’s my firm belief that the location revealed in the poem is not adjacent to a maintained road.

  63. Regarding the “home of Brown”:

    FF has said the treasure is “not associated with a structure” and also that “where warm waters halt is not a dam.” Therefore, is it reasonable to assume no part of the poem refers to or relies upon man-made constructs? If so, then hoB is not a physical structure, i.e., an actual house. Just a thought…not even an opinion.

  64. The poem must be followed precisely, in its exactness. I see some searchers, and researchers who get caught up in their own opinions. If a searcher thinks she, or he will find the treasure without following the poem precisely I think they are making a mistake. The poem will push you away because you are not following its rules. If you think you are smarter than it, it will kick your behind. Follow the poem commonsensically, and it will reward you for your effort. This is my opinion, and opinion only.RC.

    • Hmmmm, food for thought, don’t want a kick in the behind, You make it sound like it’s just like saying my abc’s. Wish it was that easy. Thanks for you opinion.

  65. Melanie;

    ff has said that the Treasure Chest (and its location) is not associated with a structure. He has not said that other clues within the poem are not structures, or associated with structures. Therefore: hoB “could” be a structure. Only if you believe that the hoB IS the location of the Treasure Chest…and IMO that is unlikely since you have to go somewhere related to the meek plus find a blaze and Heavy Loads and Water high before you actually locate the TC.

    • True, true, JD, treasure is not associated. So stop digging up old outhouses! You can dig up new outhouses but the treasure you find will not be pleasant.

    • I tend to agree that hoB is NOT the location of the TC – it is just part of the cluepath. However, FF has also said the TC might not be found for 1000 years. If that’s the case, it’s highly unlikely that any part of the cluepath depends on man-made structures as reference points….unless they could stand the test of time, like Native ruins. And, how likely is it that 1000 year old ruins that are evident today will be recognizable (by a common joe) 1000 years from now, assuming such ruins are not in a protected place, such as Mesa Verde or Canyon of the Ancients?

      Off the top of my head, the only man-made structures in modern times in the Rocky Mtns that could last 1000 years (without maintenance and would be in ruin) would be dams and mountain tunnels (highways, rails, utilities). FF has ruled out dams. As for tunnels, they’re no place for the meek, but I don’t think FF would send anyone into one. Especially a child.

      HoB could also be a reference to a place/structure no longer extant but recorded in history.

      So, I’m thinking the cluepath is based entirely on natural and/or historical references, where he finds beauty/connection. Those stand the test of time. Again, just a thought to bounce around and only my working opinion as of today.

      • “it’s highly unlikely that any part of the cluepath depends on man-made structures as reference points”
        I like that Melanie. Thank you.

        “So, I’m thinking the cluepath is based entirely on natural and/or historical references”

        You really said historical with Seeker watching.
        This could get hysterical.

        • Yeah, I just give up…

          But as some have said, this only refers to ~ association to the chest, with no mention of other clues. And as others have stated, what is a structure? some place of habitation are dugout ~ are these ‘ structures ‘?

          The comment on ‘ any level of US history’ is a tricky one… imo… Personally I rule out U.S. as to government control or act as to a time period. Even though the chest [ not so much the clues ] lay in wait in one of four present day states, does the poem refer to the place when or at the time of a ‘state’?

          Time seems to be a factor in the poem with the presence of past tense and present tense within the poem. After the fact comments of a 100, a 1000, even 10,000 years down the road. Comment of future time line such as the year 3009. Comments of influencing future generations etc.
          Yet I can’t argue a location that was under another governing body in history… just not during the time of U.S. history… IMO. Even during the time before and after U.S. history, names of places have been changed, and most likely some will in the future, and one of the reasons I don’t like names usage to match a clue.

          At different time in history, land that is now under U.S. boundaries/history, was under other controlling factors. If we go back far enough the controlling factors related to Tribes…

          A mere 1000 years ago, The Americas didn’t even exists in recorded human history. So it really comes down to what one thinks of as history… in a time period.

          • I’ll go one step further for discussions.
            I have asked in the past these two questions, so I’ll ask once more.
            Can the poem be solve 1000 years from now?

            And more important referring to time and /or history

            Could the poem be solve by someone 1000 years ago?

          • Seeker,
            You would have to ask questions as this seeing my time machine is in the garage being fixed. Maybe I can borrow the Wayback machine from Peabody if I remember correctly.

          • seeker, in my solve:
            The poem could be solved 1000 years from now. That is dependent both on both natural and human history that is yet to come (and we can’t predict that.)
            The poem could not have been solved 1000 years ago. That is dependent on history that has already occurred and place names that humans have applied to those places. I just can’t see Forrest building this solve solely on names that any Native Americans in the area might have given (and I really can’t imagine Native Americans had that much interest in naming everything so specifically…I don’t know that much about Native American history, but I get the impression that their own view of history has more to do with the spiritual.)

          • Hello Seeker. To add a little humor to answer your question, ‘Could the poem be solve by someone 1000 years ago?’ The answer would be, “No,” because Mr. Fenn wasn’t alive to write the poem to get the chase started. 🙂 Now to answer seriously. In statements Mr. Fenn made in the past, (paraphrasing) about the surroundings could change or how things didn’t exist when he was young…could these answer your questions?

          • Seekers,
            I always enjoy your questions but I don’t know why because they always lead to other questions… maybe that’s why. So you asked- Can the poem be solve 1000 years from now? From every thing Fenn has said I would say yes. But we all know things change and it’s only a matter of time until the landscape changes enough until so few clues will be identifiable and how long will that be?

            Could the poem be solve by someone 1000 years ago? Last time I read this question I believe you used 300. I don’t believe it could because I don’t believe all of the clues are just merely locations. If they are all locations I mostly likely. Is it more likely to look at a location and know it will be the for thousands of years to come or know that it’s been there for thousands of years? Imo there are lots of geographical locations that one knows will be there for thousands of years such as mountains, lakes, and some rivers. So this items are the ones that help me solve some of the clues. So meny that search assume so much will change so soon but within time and geographical locations that’s not true.

          • Debbie,
            I agree that geological changes, and human activity will make it unknown / hard to located the chest years down the road… Although fenn did seem to take that into consideration.

            The clues didn’t exist prior to the poem. I was asking more about what the clue refer to, So thanks for bring that up… maybe I need to clarify as to… Could what the clues ‘refer to’ be solved by someone 1000 years age? meaning the clues are time lasting. and if so can the poem be solve in the far future?

            “I always enjoy your questions but I don’t know why because they always lead to other questions… maybe that’s why.” Are you related to Loco? Thanks for the chuckle. I have to ask questions, not only to myself, but to others as well… Mainly, cuz I’ma not da sharpest tool in ta shed.

            I just hope some of the questions I ask, help to suggest a different line of discussions. I find it interesting that Fenn has made comments about “years down the road” Yet most dismiss ‘years ago’. He did say a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help. My theory of the Glacial period revolved around that thought process of time. This is why it has been confusing for me, reading all these post and solve… they all seem to relate to this day and age or very close in present time.

            So that is why the question of time… even though the “RM’s are still moving”, and will be more difficult to find in 3009 and beyond…
            Why couldn’t it be solve in 1009 with the same difficulty Or is the poem only related to this day and age?

            The only problem I can come up with, to past time is; The clues did not exist when fenn was a kid… [ he hadn’t thought of them at that time ]… but most of the places the clues refer to did. That “Most” is the only factor I can see that will kill a solve of a 1000 years age. However that would only suggest one part [ at least ] of the poem could not be solve 1000 years ago.

            Even though I sake question to others… I do try to dissect them my self. Now the question is… which clue was not around? Is it historical? a natural event? of something fenn did himself?

            I need to buy stock in Acetaminofenn…

          • Maybe the treasure chest would be the clue that wasn’t available when he was a kid? Personally speaking, I like to take Ibuprofenn for my headaches. 🙂

          • swwot, are you referring to seeker’s comment as mine by mistake? or trying to tell me that mine gave you a headache?
            (I certainly got a kick out of his humor.)

          • Changes to named places actually lines up with Forrest’s comment that it would be tougher to find in 3009.

          • Seeker,
            Now I think your asking the right questions- Now the question is… which clue was not around? Is it historical? a natural event? of something fenn did himself? If one knew the answer to these questions the poem would be easier to solve. First, Let’s go about this these questions with some facts we know. We know for sure Fenn said the chest is “hidden”. So what does hidden relay mean: to conceal from sight; prevent from being seen or discovered. “So I wrote a poem containing nine clues that if followed precisely, will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure:” This will eliminate the possibility that the word “hidden” means that it will prevent the chest from being discovered and would imply that the word hidden means out of sight(I do love logic). And now for some IMO, if the chest is hidden out of sight, and that is a clue within the poem because of the word precisely. There is no way that the solve to that clue could of existed a thousand years ago. But there are ways that Fenn could of hidden the chest by using his natural surroundings with out changing the environment around the chest location.

      • man made structure that could be around in 1000 years;

        Cheyenne Mountain, Colorado?

        Roosevelt Arch, Yellowstone?

        A place like Mount Rushmore?

        different highway tunnels through the mountains?

        maybe an old NORAD base – ICBM site?

        • Your response is thoughtful. Sorry – I meant within the assumed context of FF’s poem. Therefore:

          Cheyenne Mountain, Colorado? Probably not.
          Roosevelt Arch, Yellowstone? Won’t last 1000 years. Concrete, rebar & mortar already failing. Needs constant maintenance.
          A place like Mount Rushmore? OK, but I think South Dakota is outside the parameters of the poem, by FF’s own admission.
          different highway tunnels through the mountains? Like I said.
          maybe an old NORAD base – ICBM site? Opps, forgot those. Sure, all of that plus the silos and salt mines will be around for ages, but I don’t think that’s what FF had in mind as reference points to locate the TC. It’s not supposed to be “dangerous”.

          Just my late night musings. Appreciate your riposte.

      • Hey Melanie
        I’ve been wondering for a while now, do you and or anyone else think that the ancient Pueblo sites would be considered a man made structure. As i am a builder i don’t. Reason being is they did NOT construct the homes from ground up. They simply dug and carved them out of the sand stone most of the time. No real construction at all. Everything is there naturally.
        Thoughts!!!!!!!! Oh yea, IMO

        • Hi Tim! I was in the construction biz myself. Nice to meet you.

          Yes, I absolutely consider ancient Pueblo sites man-made. As I said, “If that’s the case, it’s highly unlikely that any part of the cluepath depends on man-made structures as reference points….unless they could stand the test of time, like Native ruins.” I also said, “So, I’m thinking the cluepath is based entirely on natural and/or historical references.” That would include ancient Pueblo sites. IMHO.

          Meanwhile, I’ll wait for the lecture on “historical”.

  66. Take a sandwich, sit and enjoy your sandwich and take in your surroundings below the HOB. You don’t have to search right away,familiarize yourself with the area you think is the HOB.
    There are things that I saw in my location ,that only clicked after I had left. I now know the place for the very first time after having been there several times before . Where,s Spring when you need her. 🙂
    “From there it’s no place for the meek.” “Meek” is not what it seems to be. It is no place to take your children BUT he has said several times that a child could retrieve it. Children are curious little free spirits and me as a loving,protective parent would not take my children into a dangerous place…just my 2cents..IMO…

    • onuat, “no place for the meek” is indeed a dangerous place – but there’s absolutely no need to go there!


    • Hey onuat
      FF also sad thatt its very safe and he would have no problems taking his rand kiids there.
      Just saying…

  67. From there its (( OFF TOwards )) no place for the meek….

    is that what is meant or ismeekt away from where you need to go, since it may be dangerous…

  68. Hmmm.
    Here is something to think about. (not sure why I am telling anyone, but oh well.)

    FF said that there are 9 clues. He didnt say there are 9 directions or steps.
    But it seems like most people are looking at them as directions.
    Begin at some place that warm water halts
    Go down a canyon from there…etc….

    What if they are not directions at all?
    What if they are clues to something totally different than what they seem to mean.

    I mean what if “Begin it where WWH” Translates to “Start with a compass”

    “Take it in the Canyon down” translates to “go where two highways meet”


    I know it sounds far fetched, but I read or listened somewhere that FF used “Masquerade” (the riddle book) as inspiration.

    And if you read that and look at the answers you will see that the pictures and words had nothing to do with the actual solve.

    Things like drawing lines between the eyes and left toe that would point to a letter, etc….

    I believe FF also said somewhere that he was surprised that no one was thinking a different way about the poem. Something like that.

    I am just thinking that I need to stop looking at the poem as step by step directions and totally be outside the box.

    FF just said they need to be followed in order….

    Something to think about.

    • Mark,
      I would check out the Q&A,s about the book thing. I believe the answer to that was answer in the negative.

      • I will have to find where I heard or read that.

        As for the other thing which I think is very interesting, is on Myst. Writings, Six Questions Yet Again With FF, Always a treasure:
        3Q: about clues hidden in the book

        FF Answer:

        “I don’t want to broaden the clues….What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve”

        A very interesting statement.
        Especially with all the solves people have sent to him.

        • He doesn’t really know what all have considered, does he? I mean, It’s not like everyone reports back to him on their thoughts. It’s just that those around him or that he converses with mostly either haven’t thought of it or don’t want to bring it up in front of others, maybe?

    • I often look at the poem in a similar way as this is due to one question I’ve asked myself since the beginning and that is, If Fenn buried the chest and the clues lead precisely to it, is that described in the poem? Not just the location it is buried, but the act of actually burying it. That would be a clue that is not a location but an action. Thinking this way there may be more than one clue that may be an action. One example could be five locations and four actions. This is only a hypothetical scenario and in no way implys that the chest is buried.

      “The answers I already know,
      I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.”

      • Please remember, FF never said the TC was buried. He has corrected many an interviewer on this point.

  69. BTW, the Masquerade book is very interesting. Definitely a good addition to the library.
    I would suggest the one with the answers…

  70. “No place for the meek.” IMO is not a dangerous place, but the name of a place that some might interpret as dangerous, or that the meek might stay away from.

    I would not be afraid to take my youngest granddaughter to my “meek” place.

    On the way to where I think the treasure lies, I probably won’t even slow down as I drive by, except to possibly take a picture of the sign…if there is one.


    • @Donna M, at your prompting I revisited possible definitions of meek.

      If not a place for the meek, how about a place for the “magnanimous.”
      It’s the perfect description of the brave & selfless people dedicated to searching for Randy.

      Magnanimity (derived from the Latin roots magna, great, and animus, mind) is the virtue of being great of mind and heart. It encompasses, usually, a refusal to be petty, a willingness to face danger, and actions for noble purposes. Magnanimity is a latinization of the Greek word megalopsuchia which means greatness of soul.


      MAGNANIMITY, n. [L. magnanimitas; magnus, great, and animus, mind.] Greatness of mind; that elevation or dignity of soul, which encounters danger and trouble with tranquility and firmness, which raises the possessor above revenge, and makes him delight in acts of benevolence, which makes him disdain injustice and meanness, and prompts him to sacrifice personal ease, interest and safety for the accomplishment of useful and noble objectives.

      • DING DING DING…! ANNA IS THE WINNER! That’s what I mean by looking at not just the words in the poem, but their meanings. Many levels here to dig through!

        • Why thank you Donna M! Last time I won anything was a Santa Claus coloring contest 49 years ago. Meek suggests that one makes the self small, gentle, humble. Magnanimous is an interesting contrast to meek since it could be likened to a person of bravery – like a warrior with his chest out ready for battle. Magna means large, great, etc and could refer to the big picture ff speaks of. I enjoy ‘wordeling up’ as 23kachinas cleverly put it. Forrest set out his treasure chest expecting us to act like we belong in the home of the brave. Let’s hope one deservingly brave searcher can come home with a magnanimous treasure, and not an empty magnum of champagne like Forrest & Peggy’s headhunter costume party. Gotta love those costumes. 🙂

        • “I haven’t seen use of any antonyms, and think that would not be a useful tool to try, unless somewhere in the poem itself it INSTRUCTED you to use them.”

          Magnanimous is an antonym of meek! 😉 However, it is preceded by a negative… so does that make it a synonym???

          • Are you quoting me, uken2it? I am honored. (or did you accidentally think my post was somehow connected to this one?)

          • Debbie,
            I am confused easily but putting a relationship between your posts aside, I hear you say antonyms would not be a useful too unless INSTRUCTED to use them. Then you mention in another post meek and magnanimous which are indeed antonyms. ( I acknowledge the negation of meek).

            So help me out here, what do you mean ‘my post was somehow connected to this one’? Or explain how they are not connected.

          • In “it’s no place for the meek,” an antonym is implied by the negative. That is much different than just using an antonym because you think that it might be some kind of method or code. I don’t believe there is any “code” used, uken2it…it is simply a” very unusual” way of giving directions.

          • uken2it, this posted comment starts with Donna M., then anna makes a comment, then Donna M., then anna, then you.
            My comment that you refer to was under a different commenter, not Donna M.

          • Debbie,

            1) Let me make it easier to understand. Did you say something to the effect antonyms are not to be used unless INSTRUCTED to use them?

            2) Did you say something to the effect that magnanimous may be indicated when looking at “no place for the meek”?

            I believe the answer is yes and I see no ‘real’ contradiction between the two. My commenting on the use of an antonym was intended as a bit of sarcasm with a confession that there was no contradiction. Sarcasm was brought about by your reply with SHOUTING that INSTRUCTION is required.

            If I am not clear by now I am done with this either way. Lets get back to fun and prizes ;^)

          • Yes, we certainly are done, uken2it. I never used the word Magnaminous until after you used my word in a quote. I had not been listed under this comment prior to you using my quote. I occasionally use quotation marks or uppercase letters to highlight a particular word. If you are offended by that, I certainly apologize (but on the other hand, I think it is entirely ridiculous.) Since it appears that you only intend to pick a fight, yes, our conversation is done.

  71. All,
    After reading the last few entries here, I would suggest, IMO, that the “one important possibility related to the winning solve” is closely related to a way that a searcher can “precisely” follow the nine clues.

    By the way, I keep running into multiples of the number 12. (The 24 lines in the poem is perhaps the most simple example.) Anyone else notice this?
    “Have flashlight, will travel” (But not right away; waiting for dry weather.)

  72. IMO one should consider antonyms. Example: clue’s answer = spring. Antonym = fall (not precisely an antonym).

    See if the antonyms relate to the clues somehow. Above might be water ‘fall’ and spring might mean ‘springs’ leading to the falls.
    Purely an example and not intentionally pointing to the merits or lack there of, using water falls in a solve.

    • I haven’t seen use of any antonyms, and think that would not be a useful tool to try, unless somewhere in the poem itself it INSTRUCTED you to use them.

    • The little Indian girl..”first two clues.” Kinda points to knowing your geography. In my opinion ..First two clues is in the first stanza..know what State to start. Everything else is in the eye of the beholder until you get to 200ft of the chest.

  73. From Jenny’s new “Six Question”, about whether a “foreign” English speaker with only the poem and a map can confidently identify the location of the chest, f replies “The little girl in India cannot get closer than the first two clues. ”

    leaves me utterly baffled; I was really confident f has said that if you study wisely enough, you can go confidently to the chest. And maybe he did, but it did not mean what I thought if meant (in my best Inigo Montoya accent). I was convinced only the blaze required boots on the ground (botg).

    or maybe this little girl in India answer is what I’m misinterpreting

    • Yes Joseph, Forrest’s replies there could potentially be a major game changer for many.

      It is going to require a great deal of pondering, discussion and questioning…..dang, where is that guy when you need him?? 🙂

      LOL!! Good Luck to All!!

      • OK Loco – I thought about it. If the closest that she can get to the chest is the second clue, then the other seven clues and chest are contained or exist within the area of the second clue. If not, then get some good hiking boots.

        I am sure this can be spun other ways as well; but still no game changers for me. I will just keep thinking… And whatever it is I need to think, I still have not thought.

        • “I wish I had another treasure to hide in the Appalachians. The little girl in India cannot get closer than the first two clues. There are many disabled people who are deeply into maps and geography, and they are having a lot of fun.”

          This is one of those answers that will lead to so many possible conclusions.. so yes loco.. much to ponder.

          Wish he had another chest to hide in the Appalachians… is this simply stating the opportunity to physically search? for others outside the US.

          The little girl from India cannot get closer than the first two clues… Seems to indicated the other seven are a must ‘see’ in person, to finalize the poem.

          There are disable people who are… This also seems to indicated that the poem is a physical track… at least after the first two clues, yet what about the “know beforehand comment?
          If a searcher needs to be botg after knowing the first two clues, that makes the other clues needed to be viewed for some reason ‘other’ than a good map / GE.

          Three separate comments here? or hinting there is no other way to “follow” the clues other than being in the field…

          Then there is the other thing i mentioned in a post below… The first two clues are not part of the 9 clues needed to be followed… but are hints. Is Hints of Riches new and old or gone alone in there… hinting where one needs to “know where to start” and at that location something tells us where the first of 9 clues or all the 9 clues are, and at a different location? is this why some indicated the first two clues [ of 9 ] and didn’t know it?

          So now, If someone from another country can’t get get any closer than the first two clues “in the poem” Does that mean neither can searcher in the US and Canada?

          We are told clues get you closer to the chest, hints help with the clues… maybe the hint to know where to start are what fenn is calling the first two clues. As I have pondered before… why does he call everything a clue? even the useless clues. My only thought is that he will help by telling us what the actual ‘9’ clues are and calls everything a clue… it makes for a good sales pitch anyways.

          Man!` I’m more confused then ever… But I guess I knew that beforehand.

      • Taking the question literally, “only has your poem and a map of the US Rocky Mountains” would infer no internet. That MAY resolve why the hypothetical girl can’t interpret, say, “home of Brown”.

        But that ALSO suggests that wwwh IS decipherable with only the poem and a map. No Fish&Wildlife trout stream map, no stream temperature studies; nothing but the poem and a map. Velly Intellesting.

        I think this may turn out to be valuable information regarding wwwh.

        • Joseph, my WWWH came only from a map. In fact, so far, everything I have (and I suspect it is a lot), CAN be ascertained from just a map and the poem. (Light bulbs have flashed when reading other things, but it all could have been done with the map and the poem.)

        • A good map, that is. Not just Forrest’s map. Good maps may be more accessible on the internet, looking up information, questions etc., is all more easily accessible with the internet. But all those things can be accessed without the internet, just at a much slower pace.

    • A simple explanation is that the first two clues can be solved before heading into the wood. I don’t see how that hinders a person being able to go confidently into the wood and retrieving Indulgence.

      Add to that that Mr. Fenn has mentioned numerous times that he has been surprised that noone has realized the word in the poem that the rest of the poem hinges on. Makes me wonder if it associated with clue number two.

      What do you all think?

      • swwot,

        hmmm…..could you provide a couple of links to –> “Fenn has mentioned numerous times that he has been surprised that no one has realized the word in the poem that the rest of the poem hinges on.”

        I can’t recall him saying that. And I checked the Cheat Sheet, no mention of it there. Dal and Goofy usually don’t miss statements, such as that, from Fenn?


        • Loco, I honestly could not show you where I saw that, but almost certainly here on Dal’s site since I joined this past summer. I am almost certain though that Mr. Fenn said something like “a key word that nobody has figured out” or something to that effect. Sorry to change words in mid-thought, perhaps I shouldn’t have said “hinges upon” as that is slightly different in meaning, but I think you get the gist of what I think I remmeber Mr. Fenn saying. Hope this helps someone remember where I saw it and can reference it for us on this thread.

          Perhaps, like you may be thinking, if I am remembering somewaht coherently, then maybe it is relevant for finding Indulgence – perhaps more so than previously thought or considered.

          And as always, this is speculation and merely my opinion at this point in time.

          • Melanie,

            Yes, that is the exact quote, and link. Of which I was completely aware of.

            Fenn had not mentioned it numerous times, nor was it worded as swwot indicated initially. But swwot kindly posted a disclaimer and corrected his/her remarks.

            Thank you for posting the link. And no, I do not wish to discuss what the key word might be.

          • Melanie and Loco, many thanx for veirifying I am not “misremembering things” – and perhaps Mr. Fenn has said it only once, but I know I have read it more than that – so many times, that in my mind, it could simply have been the number of instances where that single quote has been talked over, debated and analysed.

            I think we can all agree that there is one key word that many are not considering carefully enough, because Mr. Fenn has said so. Could it be in clue number 2? It might be, but then again, it might not be.

            And just to clarify – I am definitely a him, his, he, sir, mister or Mr. – just don’t call me late for dinner. 🙂

        • Hiya Loco…Caught up to ya to answer your question from last night…How many clues do I think I have?…Well, like almost everyone else I’d like to think I’ve got all of them…lol…

          I do have a location which I think is the result of clue # 2…For me that part is a given now simply by the way it is derived from the poem…What is hidden in the poem took careful and deliberate design and construction to make it work…It is too precise to be accidental…

          The rest of the clues 3 through 9 are a BOTG to me…I believe you can get some idea about what they may mean by figuring out what they may be saying or instructing you to do, but there is no way to really follow them except to be there…

          What I must wait for is to make a trip to find out if I have deciphered meanings properly…Been attempting to iron out clues 8 & 9 so they make sense as applies to preceding clues…That’s where I stand right now…

          I think I understand what clues 3 through 8 may be instructing a searcher to do to line up clue # 9…And a part of clue 9(“with marvel gaze”) makes sense as ‘looking AT the right spot’…There’s a little more to # 9 than that but I won’t disclose all of it here…

          Who can say how many for certain?…No one but the finder really…

          Best of luck back atcha there Loco…

          • IMO, samsmith, you should probably study that poem and a map a little more. There is a lot more that can be derived from them beyond clue #2 before you hit BOTG.
            Didn’t he imply that once you deciphered the poem’s clues, you should be able to just walk right up to it?

    • I actually can see what he is saying. In fact, the first two clues that I see relate in many different ways.
      When he says “closer” that might mean in an actual physical way.

    • I posted this yesterday-That would be a clue that is not a location but an action. Thinking this way there may be more than one clue that may be an action. One example could be five locations and four actions.- this fall’s in line with the little girl in India question.

      • It does not necessarily have to be a location or action, Count. Words can have dual meanings. Locations are just a group of words, a name composed of ANY words. It can be a noun, a verb, an adverb, a preposition, even a letter. It can be both at the same time.

        • I copied and pasted that from a longer post from yesterday in a different discussion that had nothing to do with what what was posted on MW. Just felt like it COULD be one explanation for what was in the Q and A #5. And you could be very right that answering a clue correctly and precisely means more than just a action and location.

          “Put in below the home of Brown.”

          • A good example is that Google is named after a number, yet is a name.
            Anyone can be close to a google (of atoms.)

          • But a person in India can move closer to a Google of atoms that are in India, but she cannot move closer to my Google of atoms in the U.S. without actually leaving India.

          • I’m not smoking anything, Jake. My point is that even concepts are words and could be place names…like Freedom. There is a place called Freedom in Oklahoma. She could get closer to freedom while in Inida, but not Freedom, Oklahoma.
            Once you get to a point in the poem that describes a very specific place that can’t be found anywhere else (or at least not in India), she can’t get closer to it in India.

    • If the 1st two clues are outside of the search area then someone in India can not get any closer than that The same is true for those of us outside the search states, we can not get closer, the 3rd clue location is closed to the search are.than clue 1 & 2. However, if you live in Denver you might be closer to clue 5 than clue number 1. Hope this makes sense to you all.

      • I meant to include in the above message that one not being any closer physically to the other clue locations does not in any way mean you cannot have solved those clues. (read up a bit)

  74. WHAT, I think thats a departure from anything he has ever said about the ability to find the chest.

  75. Just remember how FF talks. He never said that the little girl cant find out where the chest is from Indiana. He just said the closest she will get is the second clue.
    Why, because she is stuck in Indiana.
    So, maybe it’s the opposite.
    That the first two clues have nothing to do with the location of it, So they dont bring her closer or further away.
    Technically, I can find the location of anything but not be physically closer to it than where I am sitting. Unless I move.

    Just a thought.

    • Here’s another thought.. Lets skip the play on words for a moment, and just say a searcher from another country who can understand [English] the poem.

      If that person [ from another country ] can not get closer then the first two clues quite a couple things come to mind.

      The first two clues can be known beforehand, and the remaining clues must be utilized / traveled / paced or just physically known to find the location of the chest.
      Is the “know were to start” ~ the same as the “first” of the “9” clues?

      Fenn calls everything a clue… even useless clues. We have been told to follow the “9 clues” in the poem that will “lead” to the chest.

      One possibility is, there is a separate “hint” that explains where to start, and that starting point explains or tells where the clues are… so if you don’t “go” to the starting point you don’t know where the 9 clues are.
      A location fenn has gone alone, that actually tell a searcher, where WWH is at or the actual first of the 9 clues.

      This may sound confusing if you think in line of only “clue”. Yet this would explain how some indicated the first two clues and did not know… The starting point may not be a clue… it may just be a hint to where a searcher needs to go to the clues.

      A clue will lead you closer to the chest, a hint helps you with the clues.


    • Mark, Its not Indiana it’s India.
      Not sure if this was typo but maybe doesn’t matter either way unless Forrest was replying in a physical (3D) way or just about text & map (2D).

      A couple of thoughts come to mind but that Moby interview stands out in my head where Forrest said: “Little girl I already know you, you’ve been out looking for the treasure. She already knows what the clues are.”
      Question asked by a little girl? 35:20 “Which of the 24 lines in the poem contain the 9 clues?”
      Was she from India or maybe visited there at some point?

      Forrest knows we will pick this one apart till we go crazy.

      • TILL we go crazy… lol, I’ll save you a seat on the crazy bus. Do you prefer window or isle?

      • I was thinking more like a train, Seeker, as in train wreck or seeing the light at the end of the tunnel only to find, well you know. Ozzy was right, I’m going off the rails on a crazy train! Forrest’s comment cannot be without contradiction to other comments he made unless……….Please insert them here….X

      • So what is it about the 3rd clue that no one can get & no one has solved to Forrest’s knowledge?
        People have walked past it and the other remaining clues.

        There is something about the third clue that makes me think you need to skip it & figure out the 4th & 5th clues to figure out the 3rd clue. Even though they are in consecutive order.

        My 3rd clue is HOB. This clue seems to be the hardest to figure for everyone except of course the blaze which is a clue very close to the TC. Is someone figured the blaze they would have the chest IMO.

        • Jake, if it is what I think it is, I can see why most people are missing it. (And I do very much believe I have it correct.)

          • Ok Deb, you could be right.
            But there is only one way to find out.
            Why has Forrest never acknowledged anyone figuring out the 3rd clue?
            IMO, You will not, unless you have figured out the other clues after the 3rd & seeing that Forrest said the clues would be easier to figure out as you go in consecutive order.

            Again, the 3rd clue is the HOB which only Forrest knows.
            Why do you think this clue is the only one that is capped that does not start a phrase or line?

            I will tell you because he is throwing most of you off with this.
            Most of you think this is the “Word that is key”.
            It isn’t & he’s got most of you fooled who thinks it is.
            All IMO.

          • You are assuming that the HOB is the third clue. I don’t agree. And I am very confident that I know the HOB. Forrest could never confirm that I know because I have never told him. It is really that simple.
            And if were to ever phrase it to him, I would never call it the 3rd clue or any of them by a numerical term. There are many more than 9 clues to be found in this riddle. I can’t understand why he is saying that (unless he is counting places?…I haven’t counted those…perhaps…)

          • Debbie,
            There are only NINE clues in the poem.
            Only trying to help U.
            If you think there are more, then you should be doing something else instead of wasting your time.

          • There’s only one person that knows the HOB & he’s not telling.
            If you think you got it, you will find out when you go there, you are wrong, just like everyone else IMO.

          • Jake, why do you think no one else can know the HOB?

            I have a HOB that everything else links to in an unbroken sequence.

          • I don’t agree with nine, Jake. It may have something to do with what you are counting as a clue. Do two hints for one place count as one or two clues?

          • I’m just going with what Forrest has stated the last 5+ years.
            Like I said, if you don’t believe 9C the your wasting your time & others, but I don’t mind as you have your mind made down.

          • Oh I believe he has 9. But he using a different method of counting them than I am, and probably one that differs from what others are using as well. I haven’t yet taken the time to see if I can find a way to count them as he has. But I don’t have doubts about where I am at. And I may very well be at the end. I just have to analyze whether or not I am really seeing everything to be seen, and double checking to be certain that I have not missed anything or erred in a path.
            And I find it very amazing in how he has described that path. Much admiration.

          • If anyone retrieves it, he will have to write a book to explain it and tell how it was done.

        • Jake,
          There are no short cuts, so by skipping the third clue you would not find the fourth clue. The forth clue is dependent on the previous. I have a blaze yet I have no chest lol.

  76. Well, if he meant “physical” CLOSER, then the wwwh and canyon are touching and all the other spost are ‘westerly’ from those two.

    • IF you think ” of course she can figure it out in her head” , which is what I think we all felt, then that Question asked goes with deserving an answer. So I can reason that ff would give a “physical closer” type answer. And if it closer from India going west from India to The Rockys, then the other Spots are in a WESTERLY direction from the first two.

      • If that’s the case then Forrest is not answering the question #5 but merely making a comment that pertains to the question. Within the questions it makes no mention of distance or closeness.

        • In my opinion, Forrest often answers a question without answering the question. Wordplay is one of his many fortes.

        • Or perhaps I should say, doesn’t answer the question in a way that someone would normally expect it to be answered.

        • Yeah, in a way, he did not the answer the question, but then because the question itself did not specify that “distance,” how could he?
          Think of it this way, she could be fairly confident that it’s location is in the Rocky Mountains, she could be confident of that, couldn’t she?
          So the question should have specified a certain distance as well…like a 100 square foot area, or a 1 foot square area.

      • He has alway said, about solving the poem, you only need the poem, not you only need the poem to get 2 clues right.

        • It is my opinion that now one must consider the possibility of the first two clues getting a person within 200 feet. Hmmmmmmmmm…….

          • Not at all, swwot…simply means that in the first two clues, there is some commonality between India and in the Rockies. She can get physically closer to those things in India as well.

          • Howdy Debbie,

            In your reply, you said. “She can get physically closer to those things in India as well.” I agree with you in that any two physical objects anywhere in the universe may get closer or further apart in distance, this is an elementary observation.

            I think I disagree with you concerning the possibility of proximity to Indulgence. I stated “It is my opinion that now one must consider the possibility of the first two clues getting a person within 200 feet.” This is a possibility. It may even be a probability. The statement stands on its own. This is basic logic.

            Additiionally, you replied, “Not at all, swwot…simply means that in the first two clues, there is some commonality between India and in the Rockies.” My reply to this is that I am unsure of the inference you are trying to make. Perhaps you are not disagreeing with the observation, rather saying the commonality could be both/and? If so, then I concede the possibility. It definitely could be that the first two clues could be solved in both the rockies and India, or anywhere else for that matter.

          • Swwot, I don’t mean that she could take a map of India and look at the clues of the poem and solve it.
            What I mean is that the answers to those clues can be found in India as well as the Rockies, meaning whatever those answers are, they represent something that can be found in the Rockies, but you can also find them in India. So while she is in India, she can “get” closer (physically) to them (the ones in India.)
            But for the third clue, whatever the answer is…that is something that can’t be found in India. The only way she can “get closer” to it is to leave India. (However, I guess technically you could say that if she moves a foot in the right direction in India, she could move closer to the “something” in the Rockies, but let’s not get ridiculous here.)
            I do believe I have the first and second and third clues (and plenty more), and in the context of my answers to those, what he said makes perfect sense.

          • Debbie – as I suspected, we are two peas in a pod, in that we are in agreement as to what was said and how to interpret it.

            I’ll say this about anything Mr. Fenn says to the public – listen good. 🙂

            Sometimes more is said by what he doesn’t say than in what he actually says – in my opinion.

            Good luck to you as you head into the wood.

  77. JCM, Bingo!!! Forrest has said, People have figured out the first 2 clues and then walked right past the treasure because they did not know how to interpret the next 7 clues. So Forrest is right in saying that the girl in India can not get any closer than the first 2 clues. No one has been any closer. (IMO)

    • What about the 4 clue comment? What about walking past the other seven clues? why can’t someone from India figure out the remaining clue, just because no one here has? The question was not about did the little girl figure it out, it was “could ” she. If she “can not” get closer than two clues [ that is a pretty strong comment ] is the entire poem or at least clues 3 – 9 not solvable beforehand?

        • Re latest questions and answers to FF from Jenny on MW, #5: What about the little boy in Scotland, can he do the same thing as the little girl in India? My take and thinking (IMO), it didn’t matter that ‘India’ was used, could have been Cuba for that matter, right?

          • @Debbie et al from earlier post regarding my post: I’m suggesting ‘India’ was just a hypothetical question/location from Jenny and not to read to much into that physical location (country)…. might as well of been any place….What the ‘answer’ to this question does for me is makes me think that the first stanza does contain at least one or two clues and that a good map and knowledge of geography can help, Just something I’ve not been sure about and still ain’t as to first stanza containing clue(s). We know WWWH is a clue, ff has admitted that, but is WWWH the fist or second, is this what searchers have known…etc etc. Anyhow, thanks for stimulating some discussion. IMO.

        • Ok Debbie,

          If she can not get closer than two clues, that means neither can anyone else ~ unless they are physically there.
          Fine, I can see what your saying, yet does that mean the first two clues are ‘not’ physical place[s] if she can figure them out? leaving the 7 remaining clues more likely physical places.

          I get that some are saying this is fenn talk for not answering a question… Then all I can say is why bother asking those question in the first place.

          • Look at it this way, seeker. The answers to the clues are mere words as well. While you may be thinking they have some specific connotation or meaning for that matter, with regards to the Rockies, India may have something in common with the Rockies that allows her to be closer to those named things while she is actually in India. If she came to the Rockies she could also be closer, but it would be to those things in a “Rockies” context, rather than an “India” context.
            On the third clue, there is no commonality. So she can’t get physically closer. She can get “closer” in her quest to solving the puzzle.

    • All,

      To me this is a confirmtion that f considers each sentence to be a clue. The little girl in India could decifer the first two clues (first two sentences) but would need to have BOTG in order to physically “put in” below the hoB.


      • If the poem is to be followed precisely(which Fenn says it must be to find the chest) there is a very good possibility that something of this nature is true.

        • Count,

          Also Marvin Fenn once told f “the greater part of knowledge is knowing those things not worthy of knowing” so even if f considers each sentence in his opinion to be a clue it is us searchers who must think and analyze to figure out what knowledge within the poem is worthy of knowing.


          • All,

            So instead of referring to clue’s as 1-9 let us refer to them as key points in the poem and they IMO are:

            Canyon down
            Put in below hoB
            No place for the meek
            end is drawing nigh
            no paddlle up your creek
            heavy loads
            water high
            look quickly down
            Brave and in the wood

          • Good list Sean.
            Now eliminate:
            NFBTFTW – Because you go down the canyon & put in below THOB. & I think Forrest is telling you not to walk.
            Look quickly down – Straight forward
            Brave & in the wood – Brave to go up that creek even though it appears dangerous, it is not, except for the high concentration of Griz. In the wood, would indicate there are many trees around.

            Now you have your 9 clues IMO.

      • Seannm, u saved me some typing. I agree 100%, AGAIN!
        Also, F, imo, was referring to wishing he hid another treasure on East coast, (Appalachian Mts) so “chase” would be more accessible to that area, for those who can’t travel to RMs.

    • After seven hundred years, nobody really understands Occam either.

      I think the latest set of six answers are weak and offer nothing new.

      • I don’t see Forrest’s statements as new clues. They almost always (or I should say ALWAYS except for those few actually given in a few major media broadcasts) contain reiteration of clues.

  78. Seeker, imho his answer had nothing to do with India or a little girl etc. Cleverly left out was GE. If that little girl was using the resources ff stated would help…map, poem, GE – she could most likely figure out 4 of the clues. Beyond 4 clues, who knows? Maybe ground search 300 times gets you the last 5 clues.

    • It’s a stretch imo that GE was left out for a reason. the question asked about a map, and I’m pretty sure India has computers… every time I get on mine for tech help I end up there…

      But while whereon the subject of Maps and GE, what is the difference? a map is a map. Sure, you can zoom in one, but not close enough to find a 10″ chest.
      So was fenn hinting at, maybe a global map or just simply saying GE is available to most searcher and can be used as a good tool.

      It’s 5 O’clock somewhere… I might as well start now.

  79. Seeker, you will understand when you figure out why Forrest said, not far but too far to walk. (IMO) WWWH starts up in the snow capped mountains. But you are not going to take it in the canyon down until you climb to the top starting from the bottom. Unless of course someone jumps out of an airplane. So when you put in below the home of Brown you need to go back up the canyon to clue 2. That’s the only way to get there, except on paper.

    • Ok Louie, lets see If I’m following you correctly. WWH is a snow cap mountain top… can ya tell me which one so I can follow you on a map? Then to get below hoB you need to go to the bottom of the canyon to understand you went too far because hoB might mean IN the Wood ~ by meaning of wood; an area that sit between a section of trees or treeline to an open area such as a field or lack of any vegetation. So if I correctly followed your thoughts, In the wood [ area ] is hoB and the location of the chest. If not disregard the question below.

      How do you precisely know where the chest is? along the Treeline.

  80. I believe FF is saying the “little girl in India can’t get closer than the first two clues,” is because Jenny asked “identify the location of the chest.” The third clue is beyond her reach and of course she can’t get “closer,” she is too far away!

    • “many disabled people who are deeply into maps and geography,” FF is telling us also these people can’t get closer.

      • He has alway said you only need the poem….. I think he is tired of being asked that question… so he replied in Fennism. Disabled people are not doing botg, but they are having fun and MAY solve the poem is what I think he meant.

        • I agree Mustag,
          Forrest also did not state “That girl” or “A girl”
          He stated “The girl”
          The Q was “A girl”
          One thing I would like to know is how much time he had to answer the Q?
          What is a knee jerk answer or well thought out?
          Time will tell.

          • nice Jake 🙂 look at my response in Jenny’s blog in the comments section and then apply that to what you just said….you MIGHT just find something others aren’t 😯

          • Thank you Iron Will,
            This the 1?
            I didn’t spot it 🙁 Why do I feel like I am completely “buffaloed” on that one?)

            Yea, Buffaloed is correct for the most, not the few, the very few IMO.
            That’s just the architect at work here.

            If not, give URL please

          • I asked that question on Jenny Kiles blog, Jake. (How long to answer) It has been answered there.

          • I see Debbie, Thank you.
            The Q was not answered for about 10 days.
            Not knee jerked.
            This type of answer from Forrest is well thought out as opposed to a Q from an interview.

            Now that I know this, I will have to mull it over for a few.

          • I think they are done by email. You notice there is no follow up question. Dal will know

          • On Jenny’s blog Forrest made a comment that it took 10 days. You can find it if you scroll down the page from the six question.
            Sorry dal I didn’t post a quick link to it.

        • Mr. Fenn has never tried to discourage people from searching… except those that try to take short cuts and begin at HOB or the blaze without deciphering previous clues first. Although his answer to the little girl in India question seems to imply it’s necessary for boots on ground after clue 2, I don’t think that was his message. I don’t think he would be that discouraging.

          Could Desertphile ( I think it’s him that keeps telling us it’s in Kansas) be wrong.

          What if all I had was the poem and a map of the Rocky Mountains, but the third clue took me outside RM search area? I would never find the location or have a map of a path, road, trail, route, river or creek that would show me the way back to the RM when a clue dictated it.

          The question wasn’t about the poem and a good map. The question was the poem and a map of the Rocky Mountains. Jenny (or whomever wanted the question asked) knew exactly what they were asking.

          It’s quite possible clue 3 is not in the Rocky Mountains. This answer could be the biggest clue he’s given in quite some time.


          • If we take the narrow approach that Fenn’s answer was specific to her having just the poem and a RM map, then it opens up all sorts of possibiltiies. The simplest of which is certain clues are answerable within the poem itself and others require outside information other than the poem and/or map. But this contradicts what Fenn keeps reiterating about how the poem contains everything you need to solve the 9 clues.

            If we need outside information other than what’s in the poem/map, then where do I learn what that info is other than the poem? It must tell me what I need or we violate the rule that the poem contains all you need.

          • JDH,

            This was my first thought as well, and to be honest, I was a little excited about that. But should the next clue after the first two clues be outside a “map of the RM’s” shouldn’t the poem at least, tell what the next clue is? I mean hint to what it refers too.

            If the poem doesn’t have a reference of the next clue, especially if it’s outside the RM’s how would anyone figure out any of the poem. I don’t like to say this, but it seems at least one clue must be discovered on site.

            My thought is “Not far, but too far to walk” not so much the distance which may not be mentioned in the poem… but line of sight… a must see view from clue two… to locate the next clue. In this case the hoB.

            I hope I’m wrong… otherwise I’m gonna need a recipe for crow pie.

          • Indy,
            I don’t know what you mean by outside information. The poem does need to provide all information, but a map shows us how that information can be applied. Let’s say that HOB is Brownsville TX as a young person suggested recently. That’s very good thinking because ville, or villa or village is a home. That info came directly from the poem but is outside the Rocky Mountains search area and a map of RM, but certainly not a good map of the entire U.S. Is that outside information? Perhaps if a person did not know what “put in” means and had to research it, would that be outside information?

            The reference to the clue is also in the poem as stated above. At the point of HOB we are to put in. If we use “put in” as a reference to get in the water, we would follow the Rio Grande northwesterly (left on a good map) to Colorado. (Again the smart young person’s suggestion) This also fits well with “no paddle up your creek” because I have stood in the middle of the Rio Grande in El Paso TX and there were only a few puddles of water. I was on dry ground. Irrigation up river had taken most of it. With only a map of RM I could not know to follow this river to Colorado or even where Brownsville is. But the name Brownsville came directly from the poem.

            The only physical location that is absolutely necessary to be “boots on ground” for is the last one, #9. And that would be to pick it up.

            I’m not suggesting that Brownsville is the real HOB, however I want to commend the young person for their well thought out idea and I hope they don’t mind me using it for this example.


  81. Seeker, I am not going to spill all the beans but I will say this.(IMO of course). When I get ready to take my adventure, I will look at the map and tell myself, begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down. Then I will tell myself , that’s to far to walk so I will start my journey by going to my home of Brown, which is also on my map and then I will proceed with my other clues and make myself go up the canyon to the point of clue 2. Which by the way isn’t that far if you could actually start from up there. You almost go back to the staring place. Which reminds me of a quote from T.S.Elliot.

    • the poem contains everything you need to solve the 9 clues

      To solve: resolve, answer, work out, find a solution to, find the key to, puzzle out, fathom, decipher, decode, clear up, straighten out, get to the bottom of, unravel, piece together, explain

      The poem gives information you need to get to the answers ,the answers are not in the poem , only the information to get to the answers.

      The little girl cant get to the answers with only the poem/map.
      Forrest said some geography ,
      noun:the study of the physical features of the earth and its atmosphere, and of human activity as it affects and is affected by these, including the distribution of populations and resources, land use, and industries

      human activity as it affects the lands. The building of Fort’s ,Trails,City’s ,Roads,canals,…. IMO

  82. Thanks uken2it, I love this chase. and I thought doing crosswords was fun. I haven’t done crosswords for what , 5 years now. Thanks Forrest.

  83. try looking into crypto crosswords if you want a challenge and it also may provide new perspectives on words in the poem. maybe not certain and imo

  84. The Little Girl From India Problem

    “I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of solves suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced…”

    • Some will blow it off as fenntalk, and go with their original way of thinking. Other will will find hidden clues no one else sees. A few will redirect their thoughts and wonder why the first two clues are…

      While I’ll be in deep consultation with my Buds, Jack, Jim and Mr. Morgan. They always bring my spirits to a high.

      • You forgot jose, whats up with that? To think properly its got ta be tekilla for me. I think there is some info in there u just have to think about what was said. I think there are lots of aberrations to keep everyone occupied for another year also. I think ff likes rattling the cages.

  85. One theory I’m exploring regarding the 9 clues is that Clue #1 = 1; Clue #2 = 2 etc. For instance if clue number one is 1, then perhaps longitude begins with 1 or 11 from line one []. I’ve been able fit a couple clues using this method into my solution but only boots on ground would tell. And of course, this conflicts with ff’s current answers on Jenny Kyles site, since I’m only using the poem, map, and books.

  86. Trying to identify 9 specific clues is the wrong approach. I have come back to the 9 sentences being the nine clues that he referenced. The basis for this is his comment that –
    there are a few words in the poem that will not assist you in finding the treasure, but it is risky to discount ANY of them-

    IMO of course

  87. I would like to touch on the comment Mr Fenn made about the little Indian girl. I think that maybe, and just maybe no one get closer to the third clue without them being there. That ‘s another way of understanding what he said, but then again who knows. My opinion.RC.

    • I think it’s quite the reverse, RC! There is a very good reason for Mr. Fenn to phrase it that way.

      • Help me out voxpop, what’s the good reason for the wording? Promise I won’t tell anyone else…

        • I’ll tell you this, Seeker, and mainly because everyone else will ignore me, but there are only two clues that lead you directly to named places.

          • I will have to respectfully disagree. And most will ignore this. Good luck with your search.

          • Jake, that’s exactly what I had to do after almost 4 years of studying the poem, but not quite getting the right answer. The result of opening my mind to the poem has been amazing – if only at this stage in seeing the beauty of the poem’s architecture. I have no reason to revisit any of my solution, as I’m totally happy with it – and I could never say that before. I only await the snow-melt.

          • VP,
            I give you credit for sticking with it four years. My attention span is usually equal to that of a fly.
            You must have discovered things I have not.
            Have you ever put BOTG?

          • Those of us with a touch of OCD have a slight advantage, methinks. Lol!

            Yes, I’ve had BOTG six times. The first time I was convinced that the West Yellowstone area had to be the right place, simply because of FF’s history. After that, I followed a hunch with regard to the poem, and it began to pay off – but only partially. And a miss is as good as a mile (or a few hundred).

            The full majesty of the poem was only revealed after obsessing night and day for months. I’m at that age where nightly calls of nature are the routine. I would automatically recite the poem to myself at every bathroom visit, while lying and waiting for sleep, and at every opportunity during the day. I think (and hope) that it’s paid off.

          • WOW VP, that was a more info that was hoping.
            Was the majesty on the throne? Just kidding.
            Maybe you can shoot me an email of the areas you have been by clicking on my name above, so I do not go to those places near WY. I wish I knew about all the places everyone has been to save me some grief.
            You are a trooper to put BOTG to check your solve unlike many here that have allot of talk but no substance.

    • RC,

      “without being there”… I can understand this. if the third clue happens to be ” not far, but too far to walk.” The distance maybe in question as to, it may not be in the poem. Should this be a clue and a non-place then it must be a line of sight. Which then the distance, not mentioned in the poem and a place is “from the second” to view the next clue. The answer or what the clue refers too, is the distance only to be viewed on site.

      But if a searcher knows the next clue, lets say hoB is that distance needed or is hoB “only” known on location as well.
      Which brings us back full circle to “know beforehand”

      • This is starting to remind me of the book The Gold Bug. Where to know the next clue someone had to sit in a specific chair and look for something specific. Without being at that specific location the was no way to know exactly where the clue was. It’s a good book and I’m guessing most here have read it.

      • Hey Seeker
        Yea I also have botg but all I can say is without the correct solve you might as well leave your botg without being in them…
        As far as as, Not Far, but to far to walk, remember FF was 79 80 maybe. His distance and younger peoples distance will not be the same.. He will slow down a little each year, that’s nature. I’m 60 and I’m only telling the truth. So, at 80yrs old how far is to far? Does anyone really know?
        Where’s Spring I’m waiting.

  88. Well I think I can agree with RC , seems logical in a strange sorta way. It’s late going to bed.

  89. I think that “The little girl in India cannot get closer than the first two clues” because the 2nd clue leads you nearby the location of the chest, but not directly to it. The 3rd and 4th clues, take you further away from the chest and the 4th clue, IMO, the blaze, can be seen from Google Earth but must be confirmed by BOTG. This and the remaining clues lead you back to the chest but she won’t be able to follow these clues without knowing what the blaze really is by BOTG.

    The little girl would be close but would never get closer than the first 2 clues even if she solved the 3rd clue and arrived in the vicinity of the 4the clue.

    The 5th clue probably also could not be deciphered without boots on the ground, IMO.

  90. Has anybody found the starting point of the search? I do not mean of the poem. The poem directs you to this specific place, and that is , in my opinion, the starting point, then and only then you start using your clues however you understand them. Maybe ,and just maybe the clues are all synonyms and that’s why you only need to find the start, and the rest of the clues fall in place once you figure out what they mean. That’s why it is so important to find the starting point. This is my opinion,and my opinion only.RC.

    • Yes, and the middle, and the end! 😉 And it’s all verifiable within the poem. Of course, this is an opinion that has yet to be verified, but I am as confident as Neil Armstrong was in the ability of the Apollo mission to take a man to the moon and back.

    • JL, the important word is “directly.” I said a long time ago that the poem has a “hinge” after clue two – what FF has said confirms my opinion.

      Thanks for the good wishes, and best of luck to you, too.

      • Yes, I understood the important word and I still respectfully disagree. Hopefully I will be able to prove myself, if not then no harm done.

      • I don’t think he meant the river… could be wrong. There is a theory I have been looking at that give a starting point that tells where the clues are. Of course that is depending on what a clue is to a hint scenario. It not a master piece, just a work in process.

        • Seeker,
          I have read both books many times & the first time I read TFTW in chapter 5 “River bathing is best” (I know you don’t have the book) Forrest wrote about bathing near Ojo Caliente spring in the Firehole & when he was done bathing he stepped back downstream a couple of feet where the “WATER WAS COLD”, “THAT GAVE ME INSTANT INCENTIVE TO CLIMB OUT & SUN DRY”

          You have to assume the water was warm near Ojo, which it is, I know I went swimming there in Oct. But much colder down stream.

          This is WWWH IMO.

          • Many have been there Jake. I personally have not, but maybe someday. This is One of the places mentioned fenn went alone in. So it may just be…

            Can ya think of another place? Another place to start, a hint that may… repeat may tell where to begin the clues. It’s a hunch but at least it’s a hunch on where to know where to start and not a hunch on a clue.

            By the way if this post confuses you to some of my other post.. it should… I’m still going at this from all angles.

          • Seeker,
            I cannot think of any other place to start considering this area has been written about in his book. It appears to me, when he was in his early teens, West Yellowstone was the place he loved the most by far. I know this is the area to begin. The question is where to end.

          • Seeker,
            What was that comment about 4 clue comment by Forrest?
            Was it a maybe or concrete?
            I am just trying to figure out why only 2 clues have been figured, including BOTG.

  91. If one assumes that the third clue is “Not far, but too far to walk” – Forrest disclosed that in TFTW that that distance was 10 miles. Having only the poem and a map of the Ricky Mountains, our girl in India would not have this information. And Without information relative to hoB. (the next clue)..No, it would not be likely that she could get past clue #2. Nothing new or surprising here.

    • JD,

      If that is true, Little Indy had the same poem from the start, as we all did… we should not be able to solve the poem with out the second book.

    • Imo its unlikely that 10 miles is “too far to walk” from the poem considering Forrest spoke of walking more than 90 miles in one trip before.

      • Maybe, and this is just a thought but NFBTFTW can be defined by something other then the book TFTW. Do not go farther then an 80 year old man could make 2 trips in several hrs, so the distance after that becomes too far to walk. If taken in that context then TFTW would depend on how far f could walk in several hrs.
        That whole line is very subjective one persons TFTW may be 10 flights of stairs and another may be more then 100 miles.imo

        • Since other searchers have been within 200′ of the chest, how far do you think FF really had to walk?

          • How dare you underestimate Forrest, Debbie!
            OK, I will say less than 2 miles but more than 1 mile to his spot & not back.
            Going up in elevation apx. 500′ – 700′.
            Through high grass then the creek, straddling rocks & water high until anyone cannot go any further.

          • Just joking around Debbie,
            Sometimes it’s tough to tell when the person is not in person.
            Which brings me to the point of what Forrest types in his Q & A.
            How do we actually know what he is trying to convey without being there.

          • By other searchers if my memory serves me correct from what I read was two maybe three people have been within that distance in five years, that is less then one person per year. That doesn’t necessarily equate to a remote area but possible at least an area that doesn’t have a lot of traffic. Are you asking me how far I think he walked for my solve?

          • It was not really specific to your solve, JL, but more of a general question to those who believe a number of miles are involved.

            Imagine what it would be like to carry 20 plus pounds (plus personal supplies such as water etc.) over a few miles – twice at the age of 80. Also, think about the security implications if something went wrong.

          • I started backpacking in the early 80’s, lite weight camping gear was not the norm and a 60 to 80 pound pack was not uncommon. The gear nowadays has improved considerably especially the packs. My last trip was a twenty- seven pound pack for 5 days. With a good pack weighing 20-25 lbs two trips in one afternoon which means the return trip is lite I think an 80 year old seasoned in the wood person could cover more then a few miles easily and is more dependent on terrain and elevation gain then the actual weight of the pack. On a warm day in the summer there would really be no need for extra food or clothes and water for a two hr trip a person could get by with 16 oz. or could take one of the survival straws and drink all you wanted from the stream.

            My take on FF is he enjoys remote places and his final resting spot is not going to be near any man made development areas, will be traveled by few, a place that will be picture perfect and serene. imo

          • I think your last paragraph is spot-on, JL! But IMO, the spot is not far from where you can take your vehicle – no need to ford streams and climb boulder-strewn trails with large quantities of gold. 😉

        • hey JL
          That’s been my theory for a while now. I just left that message for Seeker too. At 80yrs how fit is FF. I’m 60 and 10 miles would be a lot for me right now, and I’m not getting younger. The distance has to be set by Forest or the books. I have both and he doesn’t clearly define distance for a 80 yr old person. It’s like saying at 80 FF and PF could walk equal distance. I don’t think so..IMHO

    • JD,
      10 Miles from Bakers hole, upstream, river distance, right?
      Forrest would not title his TFTW book after a clue.
      Your 3rd clue is HOB IMO.
      BTW, He PUT his dingy in where?

      • All,

        Remember the preface in TFTW says (and i paraphrase) “the river distance was about 10 miles” so IMO not far but too far to walk is no less than about 10 miles but could be further than about 10 miles, how much further who knows? Maybe f’s statement about the definition of several can lend some insite.


      • Jake, nowadays you Have to put in west of Bakers Hole, because it’s almost or is out of the NatlPark ,and you can not use a boat in the Park part of the Madison river. Boats not legal there.

        • Good valid point Musstag.
          Bakers hole is in YNP.
          Back in the day when there was nobody to tell Forrest he wasn’t supposed to do that, go up 10 miles & where does it bring you?
          Below Harlequin Lake?
          Either way, TFTW is not a clue & HOB will only be confirmed when someone finds the treasure.
          Like I was saying last night, Forrest has got most searchers snowed with the capped B in Brown. Most thinking this is the key word.

          The word that is key ties into the clues before & after the B.

          B leery of the B.

          • There is the 7 Mile Bridge, just 7 miles east of the town West Yellowstone, and 9 Mile Hole is 2 more miles to the east of that. I would guess that’s about where he began his trip down the Madison that he writes about. 9 Mile Hole is one of the pics in the book if I remember right.

          • Yes Musstag,
            I have surveyed the area well.
            I think it’s safe to say we have the first 2 clues like some.
            How do we decipher the rest of the clues to bring us to the right creek without asking & praying for god to help us because I know there is no god IMO.

            Atheist’s help’s those that help themselves IMO.
            I am not sure where I am at times…..

        • I have first 2 and first 3 in more than one state. Meaning I have several different partial solves, not one solve that is in several states. Wow, see how easy it is to get the wrong meaning from a statement.

    • Distance? Why are we so hung up on distance for TFTW?

      I have given several examples in the past where TFTW has nothing to do with distance, but instead is a descriptor to the place you are looking for.

      I leave one of them here again, since I received no responses last time.

      Now, let’s suppose that we are actually looking for a canyon. I’m beginning to believe we might not be, but let’s assume we are for this example.

      “It’s not far but too far to walk”. The age old question – what is IT? Well, if we use standard grammar rules, IT, refers to the last thing defined. Here, IT, refers to the canyon. Example – Go get in the car. It’s the red one. = Go get in the red car.

      So “The canyon is not far but too far to walk”. Hang with me here.

      Let’s look for not-far-but-too-far-to-walk canyon. Just like looking for the name of any other canyon, Red Canyon, Grande Canyon, etc. We are looking for the name.

      If you landed WWWH the same way I did (for this particular solve), you would find yourself staring at a magnificent canyon; pretty much the only canyon of “real” significance in the area.

      There it is – Ten Sleep Canyon. You can walk a mile, but you can’t walk a sleep.

      Ten Sleep Canyon got it’s name because that is how many nights the American Indians spent along the route from Laramie to the Stillwater Indian agency. There is another story as well describing the travel between two camps, but it is the same concept.

      The Indians measured travel by the number of sleeps – which was 10 – between the two points. So, it’s not far but too far to walk simply because the “journey” is not defined in a unit of measurement we can traverse. You don’t walk time, or sleeps.

      Conclusion – Not far but too far to walk is a viable description of the canyon you are looking for, not a distance you must travel to get there.

      The above is from an old solve I partially abandoned. It is all opinion, but this is the discovery that made me look at the poem from a different perspective.

      Scott W

      • are you saying the distance is from WWWH to no place for the meek?
        and does not have to be 10, 20 2,000 miles?
        if so I think I can agree with your thoughts

        • Jim,

          Actually, I am trying to say that it doesn’t refer to distance at all. It simply, in this example, identifies the canyon by name.

          In the example above, “Not far but too far to walk” = Ten Sleep. He s telling us what “it” is. And since “it”, in this sentence, is the canyon ….

          I know this is an entirely different way of thinking, but the old distance thing we have all been trying to solve hasn’t quite worked out yet. Has it?

          Just throwing a concept out there.

          Scott W.

      • Scott, I did 4 trips to the Ten Sleep area. It’s a wonderful place to visit with some spectacular scenery. I nearly came seriously unstuck in the badlands when I fell and damaged my leg. No cellphone coverage out there – be careful!

        • I haven’t made it there yet. I couldn’t get the entire solve to make enough sense to justify the trip for a search. However, my research of the area has me wanting to go just for the visit alone. Not sure when though.

          Scott W

  92. P.S. I number my clues differently than my above statement. To me, Clue #1 is from stanza #1. Clue #2 includes 1st 3 lines of stanza #2, and Clue #3 is hoB…but the result is the same as I mentioned above.

    • JD, I am with you on those clues as being the first 3 clues. I have always looked at the nine clues as the nine sentences. I also have looked at the sentences starting at “Begin it where warm waters halt” as clue 1 going down to where it says “if you’ve been wise and found the blaze” as clue 9, leaving the next line the actual treasure found “look quickly down, your quest to cease”. The other parts may just be hints and also the other parts refer to him doing stuff. These are two different ideas, but my specific locations seem to still match up to both ways. I also think that if you are able to park your car in one spot, you only have to walk anywhere from 200 – 500ft, believing that that is how FF knew people had the first 2 clues and went right past it by driving past and not stopping. Just a thought. This is all my opinion and fun thinking. Enjoy the Thrill of the Chase!

  93. I think the answer from F is crystal clear on the girl in India question: Do not think about outsourcing your solve. No disrespect.

  94. Seeker;

    Good point but – Even if you did not know that 10 miles was TFTW, you could have gotten to hoB. The additional info re 10 miles just makes it a bit easier…and places some parameters around what TFTW is.

    ff has talked about people getting the first two clues correct, but then going past the next clues. The critical question is “What are the first two clues to ff?”

    If a person says that clue #1 is wwwh, clue #2 is canyon down, then #3 =NF,BTFTW…To them, when ff says they got the first two right, but that they made a mistake at NF,BTFTW, and went too far, or not far enough.

    If , on the other hand, ff counts clues as I do:
    Clue #1 = stanza #1. clue #2 = wwwh + canyon down +NFBTFTW and #3 = hoB.

    Then ff is saying that most people get hoB wrong, and thus the rest wrong….and not that they had gotten TFBTFTW wrong.

    I think that this is critical!

    • Sure… But there’s a difference to getting clue wrong to can not go to the next clue.

      If you have it correct, and without knowing the distance, then the little hypothetical should be able to do the same.

      Now if the third clue is out of area and all she has is one map of the RM’S… Then she should not be able to continue.

      Dang .. Every time I think of this Q&A. I find another loop hole.

      Goofy nuke me for a week.. I need a vacation.

      • Seeker,

        What you said about the 3rd clue being off the map of the Rocky mountains is exactly what I thought when I read his comment.

        If that is true, that means that the first two clues can be found on a map of just the rocky mountains, but for some reason, clue 3 is not located there.

        Let’s take this comment at face value – “all you need is the poem and a good map…” – If we do, and clue three can’t be resolved with just the map of the Rockies, then we can assume that a map of the Rockies alone is not a good map.

        Wonder what other clues might not be on that map?

        Scott W.

      • If the 3rd clue is not on a map then she wouldn’t be able to continue as well. I can think of many things I’ve learned about the Rockies that don’t appear on maps.

  95. I think it’s always dangerous to take what FF says literally in respect of the chase – there is usually a different, oblique, way that is more fruitful. I would suggest that too many people are taking what he said about getting the first two clues right and then walking right past the other seven (or words to that effect) as literally passing by where the treasure lies. IMO, there must have been a wry grin on his face when he said this, as it was yet another way to misdirect the unwary! IMO, we all need to think more creatively about this point.

  96. One of the other things I think some people are taking too literally is concerning how far Forrest walked from his car in several hours, or an afternoon. It might be worth considering what else he had to do in that time.

    • Your on the wrong path here VP.
      It’s what Forrest did before he went there to hide the treasure.
      He had years to prepare the place to hide the treasure.
      Hiding the treasure there in his special spot was easy compared to the preparation IMO.

      • I agree that he had most of the preparatory work already done – and I think I’ve seen the evidence of that. But, I also believe that he did not spend an entire afternoon walking.

        • FF has stated that this is a private, special place. IMO he didn’t do anything to prepare the place. I think it is a place he “found” not made. A God made place, with a beautiful view, that you have to get off the beaten path to find. I think that the whole poem describes a journey of how to get there and how to find the spot. There is no need to make the journey when you solve the poem since you can do as he did and drive to a spot that you can park you car and walk to it. I would be surprised if it is more than a mile form where he parked and not surprised if it is closer to 500 ft from where he parked. 20+ pounds is a lot for an 80 year old man to carry, even in a backpack. All IMO, and I could be totally wrong.
          Good luck to all, and of course God Bless Randy’s family and the searchers who looking to find him.

  97. I just do not understand why searchers think that not far, but too far to walk is a distance of miles. When I see this line I see “not far” before “but too far to walk”. So to me not far is more important than what proceeds. It is my opinion.RC.

  98. You guys ever feel overwhelmed be the sheer quantity of information this blog puts out. Hard to keep up. You guys have been busy! I’ve been up for an hour and already feel I need to go back to bed! I don’t have anything intelligent to say right now, but just wanted to share that.

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