On Searching…


February 3rd, 2016

by forrest


An average person can believe they excel when they don’t, and most smart people realize that they are really just average. Then there are some who stand out and don’t even know it.

I received this email from Cynthia this morning. f

I think Sacha and I will put together another group search on Saturday unless the search area gets more snow tomorrow or Friday. We just can’t turn this off…you trained us to look for your treasure chest. Most of us aren’t surprised when we don’t find it, but that doesn’t keep us from continuing to search. We go home, regroup, re-research, and go out again…never ever planning to give-up.

177 thoughts on “On Searching…

  1. Forest Fenn i can tell you there’s alot of us like myself, Rodger, Sacha, Cynthia, Erica, and many many others that feel the same way and will keep looking every time we can until he is found or until we can bring closer to his family on where or what happened. I know i would hope someone would keep looking for me if i was the one out there and theres alot of us that fell that way. We are like the engizer bunny we keep on going until the job is done. Thanks Cynthia for saying what you did and thank you Forest for posting it.

    • Well said Scott. There’s some great people that have been out there since the beginning who continue to pull whatever resources they can to try and get some answers

    • rodger if theres any time you want to go out there but would like to have some one to go out there with out side of the days theres a big group let me know ill meet you some place there in santa fe. The only thing sents the day the axle broke on my trailer on the way home my truck started having transmission problems but I can drive my car up there and leave it some place when we go looking.

  2. Wish I could help. I live too far away and my limited ability to walk or stand would make me a Hindrance. Godspeed to all of you who are out there searching.

    Windy City

  3. They are truly the stout hearted men and women! We are all proud of your efforts and continue to assist in any way we can even if it’s only via long distance computer! Good luck and God speed.

  4. I agree with everyone…Thanks again to all who keep up the effort.

    Wish we could offer boots on the ground as well. But instead, ,, well wishes will have to do. Thank you Forrest for being such an inspiration…still.

    From Alaska
    Keep the updates coming

  5. I have known Cynthia for more than a couple years now. we have searched together several times & I know for a fact that she has amazing focus & determination. Stay safe.

  6. You are an amazing group of people who know no end to human kindness or perseverance. I hope Randy’s family members get the chance to thank you in person.

  7. For some reason this does not surprise me. I don’t think it ever occurred to any of these awesome people that they were through. The job is not finished so why would they stop? I salute your enthusiasm and dedication to see this through to completion whatever the outcome may be. Godspeed to you all. Wish I was there!

  8. Godspeed good weather and another safe search your way.
    To you two and your passé ,there are no words that can describe what wonderful people you are. Wish I was there,where and not here.

  9. They are very special, not giving up and working tirelessly fighting a good fight. I can only imagine how tiring it is out there, and also thinking of Randy. I still believe he’s out there alright maybe confused I don’t know, but I believe he’s a fighter. Being from Colorado he knows how to do it! Thank you Forest for sending the article. When I saw Randy picture the other day I sensed he’s ok.

  10. As a former marine, allow me to salute all of you who have vowed to “Leave no one behind” – Randy’s family needs closure – Thanks for your efforts.

  11. I thought abut this last night searched the dates just now. About the time he went on his search Jan 5 2016 was the night people saw something in the sky over CA, AZ, NV then searched NM and saw on Jan 6 2016 something seen in NM area. Maybe he went searching and went into area he shouldnt

    • To some, there’s weird stuff in the sky every night – especially in N.M.
      — No offense, in my opinion this is not about that. This is a very human experience that transcends even one.

  12. Forrest Fenn, You are our national treasure. You have touched more lives than you will ever know and will continue to do so for many years to come. God bless you.

  13. I have done the same Rio Grande canoe trip in summer time as Randy did; and by far the worst Rapids of the whole trip are Ancho Rapids about 2 miles north of where raft and Leo were found. I swamped my canoe there myself. With Randy in a raft with possibly waders on could have fallen overboard there and was quickly dragged underwater; the dog and raft continued drifting to location where they were found; I would search in river just below Ancho Rapids

  14. Cynthia, I thank you for each and every minute of your time, that you have spent, so caring and giving in this search. That could have been anyone one of us lost.

    I do not want to re-hash all the possibilities, Just what clear facts, I personally summarized: Randy left Buckman, Visited Fijole, Landed on East bank, and from the photo footprint with the animal print, made the top of the east mesa.

    It was dark, He was moving quickly north. He was being tracked. Large cats instincly attack fleeing prey.

    If anyone desires to continue searching, then let’s be practical about what we are searching for.

    Randy has become part of The Circle of Life, (Consumption). What the first left, those that followed finished. Leaving man made material and bones.

    I believe Randy died quickly, I say let him rest. Randy will forever be part of The River Grand.

    • John,

      I disagree because if not found (even his remains) his daughters and granddaughters will have no closure. IMO if anyone is willing to continue searching I agree with continuing.the search. I’m a 12 hour drive away or I’d be there too.

    • I agree with the realistic part, but if his family wants him found it warrants a safely executed search. That said, I think trained cadaver dogs should be used.

    • “If anyone desires to continue searching, then let’s be practical about what we are searching for.

      Randy has become part of The Circle of Life, (Consumption). What the first left, those that followed finished. Leaving man made material and bones.”

      *John, that was nicely stated than what I was going to say about a week ago when someone? (can’t remember) was leaving the parking lot and saw carrion birds. Probably 10, or so, days late. But who knew? This transition takes place immediately after someone has died on land, perhaps not water, as much.

      To an Ode to all the searchers for Randy Bilyeu: (Ode to follow in a few days) I love all your staying power, dedication, sleepless nights, time and least of all $$$, you, ALL, have put into this search. Finding Randy now, in these conditions, may leave an ever lasting picture in your mind. I’m from the East Coast and wish I could have, in some way, helped. Except for praying and grieving for a man I never knew, I, not being a family member, also need closure. I found it difficult the other night, looking through drones and pictures, just couldn’t sleep thinking if I were there in your shoes and just happed upon seeing Randy. God Bless You All. Hoping soon, we will all know…

      • I saw a small number (3-5) carrion birds in the trees about a 3/4 mile east of the rim above the raft late in the day on Friday January 22nd. I went back to look for them the next morning until around noon and did not see them again. A friend went and looked later and didn’t see any either.

          • Of course we don’t just look in the trees. We don’t have the location pinned down to a point, but to a ridge line about a half mile long. It was almost dark and I was sitting there in my truck, tired and staring blankly, (while waiting for some other searchers behind me to catch up) when my passenger said “birds!” and I’m like “yeah. whatever.” Then I woke up and saw them but I never got a precise estimate of their location.

            I also searched that ridge line with Fenn by air. Helicopter would scare away the birds. Still that ridge line has been searched twice by foot and once by air now.

          • My apologies for wording it incorrectly, John. I can only imagine how you both felt when the birds were spotted that evening. I’d like to submit four coordinates, asking if this area has been searched, please. I ask of the boundaries these produce:

            35.747001 -106.227797
            35.746844 -106.219686
            35.738920 -106.229535
            35.739425 -106.216810

    • What “photo footprint with the animal print” on the top of the east mesa? In any event at this late stage tracks are almost useless. I’ve seen two people out there with small dogs.

  15. Mountain lion attacks are extremely rare…Randy had a better chance of being struck by lightening than being attacked and killed by a lion. This is just pure conjecture on someones part and not really appropriate at this time. The raft did not drift to the location where it was found. It was placed there with the paddles neatly set beside it. Randy may have attempted to cross the river to get to the Ranger station and drowned but he was not lilted and eaten by a lion….IMO

    • I know these are facts but you cant tell that to others that have experienced the worst of encounters. I for one know they are rarely seen but I saw tracks and I was also told of their presence by someone that works in the area. This was not a hypothesis of a attack just a knowledge shared to others in the search area as to a word to be wise and safe. With that said, I believe no one persons thoughts are more or less important then others. Let us stay positive And help find Randy in any way we can. We are a team. lets not divide our thoughts by downplaying others Ideas. Let us all work together by exploring everything. JB and Titan

      • I agree with your suggestion of not downplaying other’s ideas. Thanks for all you’ve been doing to help find Randy! Best wishes for a full and speedy healing!

      • Jeff i agree when you say theres no idea on what could of happened to randy out there. Think about how the cops have solved some crimes with leads no matter how dumb the idea they still look in to it and sometimes that idea is what solved the case. So no matter what a person may thing could have happened with Randy is something to think about. The only way an idea can be counted out is if there is no way it could of happened or i impossible for it to of happened. We will still look in to the possibility of someones thoughts.

  16. If the raft and paddles were neatly set there, that blows my theory , I didn’t see the photo, I did see reports of no human footprints where the raft was found; struck me as strange ; the footprints with dog prints on the Frijoles canyon could be someone else hiking down to River from Bandelier park. Just trying to help from1600 miles away .

  17. Treasure searchers are a different breed of man…
    A common person is content to a “one night fling”. Treasure Hunters wants their whole life “a fling”. They don’t just TRY to touch the stars but keep crabbing until they have no strength left.
    A common man gives up easily. A Treasure Hunter believes it’s out there and won’t stop, each day of searching fuels the fire for the next day.
    A common man’s imagination has boundries and reality. A Treasure Hunter doesn’t know the meaning of the word “no”, and looks at failure as a stepping stone to their dream.

    Mr. F has awakened the Treasure Hunter in a certain breed of people who were content to spin their hamster wheel, day in and day out. The spark was always there, but he blew life into it and created a raging inferno in the chests of Fenners world wide.
    Mr. F has awakened something else in his followers. Something that was lost ages ago…the burning desire to help his fellow man. The chase has brought together a brotherhood of men and women who don’t know the word “quit”, and openly show an emotion of love for a brother.
    Some Treasure Hunters can’t be there to search for our lost brother, Randy, but are there in encouragement, searching eyes, helpful thoughts and all the while, keeping the rally cry for Randy’s recovery on their lips and in their hearts.

    If Randy is still missing in June, maybe another search can be organized at Fennboree, when those that couldn’t help, can.

    I’m proud to be a Fenner, and forever will be grateful to the man who showed me “The Thrill Of The Chase” isn’t for gold, but for the fire of life!
    Be safe, family!

    In the next several days a story by correspondent John Burnett on Forrest will be on NPR. Then in a couple weeks there will be a story in Outside Magazine’s online edition. Sometime after that there will be a story in Time Magazine.

    • Thanks Dal.
      Btw… Did you get to listen to and or record the live “Hooked on Oregon” interview? Unfortunately, I missed that one. Just thought I’d ask. Didn’t see it on the Media Page here and it’s not on their web page.

  19. Hopefully, good news. I read over at Linda’s blog, some people think it’s all about Mr. Fenn, rather than Randy. (“BAD” Exposure) I have to say Mr. Fenn has given more than what we all could possibly do or have the means.. It’s a shame, some people speak before they know. Mr. Fenn started a treasure hunt, engage or not. He gave us the facts: Don’t go where an 80 year old would not go. Mr. Fenn has spent his $$$ and sacrificed his time and effort, if that does not resonate with all who are reading this, shame on you.

    • I guess I got pretty steamed at the guy spouting the “love the exposure” comments over there. Linda said he had a right to his opinion, didn’t stop it or disapprove it. Needless to say, there has been more than one comment in the negative over there, I dropped out of the group. Don’t care for the negative vibes. It’s not helping to find Randy.

    • Maybe those people should try figuring out what they CAN do from far away rather then complain about what they can’t and who is. I’ve read some on my forum as well. Jealousy is natural, but you have to get to a point where it’s not productive to your goal and move on.

      With the search it’s unbelievable who I was and what I pushed myself to do. I was not one to do the extreme outdoor things. Favorite part of TTOTC was talking about tenacity. I used that line many times to fight my fears…and I think we need to continue with finding Randy by using it. #RandyTenacity While it might not have turned out well for Randy…you have to admit…his tenacity should be respected.

      • I appreciate his tenacity too, Stephanie. We can not begin to know all that Randy & Leo went through. Dreams are chased in a multitude of ways.

        Still…..we dream.

      • I agree with you about complaining what they can’t do and what they can do.
        That’s why I left the negativity.
        I know stress makes people do/say weird things.
        When a person who doesnt know F, and says he enjoys the media attention, I DRAW THE LINE! Stressed or not, if it can’t been seen as plain rude, untrue and crass, ive no use for them.
        I’ll leave my energies here, where it’s taken serious and not slanderous.
        F is a hero in my book, I won’t associate myself with people who try to belittle F, point fingers, and will look at the real mission we have here, a man named RANDY!
        Imo. Sorry for the rant.

    • Confusion causes stress and people do weird things in stressful situations. There’s certainly a lot of confusion in the Randy missing person case.

      The percentages fall on the side of those you would look up. There’s a lot of folks I look up to here.

    • Lois i agree with you on how some people have been negative on othet web sites about the search for both Randy on the search and going missing along with looking for the chest. The other day i watched a bit on channel 4 news here in N.M. on the search for Randy and i just had to commit back to the people that left commits there. The comments left there real rude and i told them they should all be ashamed for there words on Randy being missing because its about a person needing help to ne found not about a treasure and if they cant say something to help him not to say anything at all.

  20. Cynthia, Sacha and the whole team of folks with boots on the ground and those

    at home searching pictures and drone footage, all amazing and not giving up.

    True spirit that all of us Fenners are proud of. The ladies are true Leaders and inspiring.

    Prayers and Godspeed to each and every person.

    • Well said Sally2. I don’t know why but your post made me think of “John Hammond” and “Ellie Sattler” in Jurassic Park when he was stumbling around trying to tell Ellie it should be him going out to risk the danger and not her. I think what Ellie said might be nothing compared to what Sacha and Cynthia might have to say to him. 🙂 Thank you ladies for taking the stand and the lead to jump in from the very beginning with both feet on the ground and never slowing down! I would follow you any time!

      Godspeed to all.

      • Thank You TXTH, You said it even better and i agree, i think there are alot of us that would follow those 2.

  21. Some years ago I joined the chase, buying a copy of TTOTC. Reading the poem.
    Hanging in this blog. Ever searching for a hint that would lead me to gold.
    Tonight it hit me. I found the gold, right here. In this blog.

    Cynthia, Sacha, Forrest. just to name a few. Exemplify what it is to have hearts of gold. Not stopping for a moment to say what’s in it for me. Or ” It’s my job ”
    You all just plan and go. The world could use another million like you all.

  22. Thanks from one searcher to another to those who’ve worked on trying to find Randy. Is there anything those who aren’t in the area can do? I know the drone videos…but anything else? I’ve heard that the cameras in the area are “live” only and don’t record per the water department. Also, there are no animal camera’s in the area.

    Is there any possible way to search the lake? Any chance Crayton would have equipment that could search it? I’ve seen remote cameras for sale online that work like drones above.

    • Had another thought…does anyone know anyone at Big 5, one of the stores Randy was at? I’m not sure if they sell those remote camera’s or not…but I wonder if someone has some pull with any place that does that would consider donating one to SAR in Randy’s name and it can be used to search the lake?

      I’ve seen them on ebay for around 4k. We could try to get a fund going if someone wants to pursue that, I’d be happy to donate.


  23. Made it out of surgery yesterday with anticipated success. I’m down for 6 weeks I’m Told I can’t lift more then a milk jug or bend or twist. That’s about everything we do in life. I’m alive and living so I just want you all to know how much I wish I could be there to help. My Ranee, Titan and Family are standing by me strong. I hope Randy knows that a family of treasure hunters are working hard to bring him home. Your all angels. I will be working the footage over and over. Please think about the safety jackets for your next time out. I’m sure people would be happy to bring their own if they own one and its requested by search leaders. We can see how hard it is to spot anything on the ground in this terrain. Bright Colors would be a plus. Also consider a few men or women with drones Up river from Randy’s car at least a few with cameras. Stick together and make some noise. I would if I could cover this area. Sorry guys for not helping out more. Jeff, Ranee and Titan. Our health is the wind that carries us to the river. Always J B and Titan

      • Thanks Pdenver The feet are still numb with a little less pain. At this point any little improvement is a welcome. Wishing for more to follow. I will say Thank you to all, so we can get back on topic again. Sorry for going off topic but to all of you have a great day always JB and Titan

    • Jeff, good to hear you are on the mend. Hope you have a full and speedy recovery. Let Titan do the dancing for the next 6 weeks–I’m sure he has some great moves. Best wishes and gratitude –your efforts to find Randy are appreciated.

    • Jeff, I am glad you are doing well. Don’t see how you went out looking for Randy when you needed back surgery. I met you and Titan at the book signing in Santa Fe in September. Take Care!

      • I’m not sure either but no amount of pain has killed me yet. When there is a need such as a life in the balance. I just had to try to help. Now I have to wait for future searches but I am spending as much time in this chair as I can reviewing what can be done here at home. I just can’t let it go. If there is anything more I can do from here for anyone please let me know. Have a good day always JB and Titan

  24. So I’m sure it crossed people’s mind that Perhaps Randy found the Treasure and Vanished on purpose. I know it’s conjecture but to dismiss it as a possibility is equally conjecture ; only FF can confirm it could not be the case.

    • Stephen Grot, I believe ff has already answered that question, he clearly stated that was not a place where and 80 year old could safely go, furthermore he said it was not really north of Santa Fe and I gps about 5 to 6 miles latitude, so much for conjecture.

      Change of topic, did we get the OK from the Pueblo (San Ildefonso) to search the east side of the river and mesa?

      Tom T

      • Tom
        the raft was found at 35.75 Degrees north, and SF is at 35.69 degrees north so clearly where the raft was found is North of SF, as FF uses the definition of North

        • Technically it could be North but understand if you are standing anywhere within the city limits of Santa Fe, you are not North of Santa Fe. I used the North Santa Fe city limit sign on US 281 and measured 8.25 miles north of it on Google Earth since Forrest clearly stated over and over it is at LEAST 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe. That line passes well north of Buckman Road where Randy’s car was found. I understand now that there may be parts of Santa Fe that are further North than that city limit sign so my line may need to be shifted even further North.

          (scroll down until just after the New Mexico Map part of the total search area map I did. You will see in the captioning where I say the Randy info starts.)

      • Tom,

        We haven’t asked for permission, because their boundary is North of Buckman rd. I haven’t ruled out that Randy overshot his destination, but we are focused on other areas, for the time being.

    • But not 8.3 miles north.

      Considering that that Camel Rock Casino is 8.3 miles north check that latitude against even Frijoles canyon, and it still been stated that ff said not where and 80 year old could safely go, that was repeated all over news and net.

      Tom T

      • Problem with all that is that both Santa Fe and Bandelier are on the TFTW map. Fenn said that if it’s on the map it’s in play. Also it was an easy hike to the bottom of Frijoles when Fenn hid the treasure. The flood took out the trail in 2011.

        • Agreed John. As was creatively discussed on another site (with too many what if’s by me perhaps?) Frijoles probably made sense to Randy for the reason you just pointed out. This was not a good plan for a trip, freezing weather, and whatever unknown plan to return to car, either hiking back, or somehow rafting all the way to Cochiti Lake. Neither makes a good plan. To me it looks like he waded over to Frijoles side, at least tried to cross back. Tracks support this. If he didn’t make it back across, then he likely drowned and is somewhere downstream. If he did make it back across, then as you have said he probably tried to hike upriver and met his fate along the way, probably along the East bank, with the Ancho Rapids being a most risky spot. If this was the case, might he also be in the water above the raft and below Ancho? Once all areas have been searched to some degree (they probably already have), I think these two possibilities give the best chance of finding him if the search is to continue.

  25. I think maybe the Fennboree should have a few awards given out.

    I nominate Cynthia and Sacha for the first annual “Indomitable Spirit” award.

  26. How do you put a pic on here I found what looks like an “S” and a horseshoe in the middle of the woods.

    • Nick-
      Pictures cannot be posted in a comment. Put it on a free photo site and put the link to the photo in your comment.

  27. You woman searchers are our heroes nice that y’all live close and can help out Y’all be safe in your search

  28. My Heart felt sympathies goes out to the family, and loved ones. God bless those that continue to search for Randy! You all are in my prayers. I hope he will be found to be brought back to his loved ones.

  29. I am sure many of you saw the comment by 21Ponies that we removed a few minutes ago. It was removed because it attacked someone and I cannot permit that on this blog. I certainly understand 21Ponies’ anger and I agree with his sentiments, however this blog is not the place to post such an attack.

    I am going to post here a piece of what Linda (Randy’s ex-wife) wrote on her website about Forrest. I believe this is the crux of what 21Ponies was upset about. I am posting this because I want us as a community to be aware of her outrageous accusations. I am appalled at her remarks. I believe her comments to be unthinkable, undefendable and completely irresponsible.

    I will allow civil comment on her remarks but I will not allow name calling or bullying.

    Linda Bilyeu’s comments as copied from her website on February 5th, 2016:

    “I emailed Forrest today and kindly suggested that he tell the a family member where the treasure is. I emphasized that we did NOT care about his treasure madness and just wanted our treasure returned. This idea was all I had left to try and find Randy! He opted out. He said Randy was no where close to the treasure. I’m calling BS!

    There is no way Randy went there without his mind being manipulated enough to believe that the treasure was there. He was certain the treasure was there. He had found it! Now, that is if the treasure actually exists. Come y’all do you really think there is hidden treasure?

    Who in their right mind would be that desperate for attention that they would need to hide $1-$3 million dollars worth of gems and whatever and then write two books about the hidden treasure? And on top of that charge $35 for the first book on how to find the treasure? Who does that? I will allow you to answer that question because I am sure by now you have already formed your own opinion which you are entitled to.

    I think I might have possibly offended Mr. Fenn today. He told me with all certainty that Randy was searching West to Southwest of the area, when his clue is actually North to Northwest. But, after much research via an expert Randy was actually searching North to Northwest of Santa Fe. And that, is a fact! Randy might have went down the river on a raft in the winter because he had a damn good reason to do so.

    Possibly, Mr. Fenn is directionally challenged, such as myself?

    In need of lawyer who will take on our case pro-bono. At this time. For PR only. Are you up for the gig? Email me for a consultation. lindabilyeu@gmail.com

    February 4 – I had a consult with our family attorney. Due to the way this case is being handled he suggested it was time to acquire the services in the Santa Fe area. So, if you are or know of a lawyer who has worked along with the police in a missing case before, please let us know. Pro bono would be greatly appreciated. Of course the PR is a bonus for them.”

    There you have it. If you want to check the authenticity of this quote Linda’s website is located at:

    Please…no assaults or name calling or bullying in your comment about her remarks.

    • I believe this is the anger/bargaining stages of grief. It really has little to do with the treasure hunt or Forrest Fenn.

    • Forrest has said time and time again that everyone should wait until spring when the weather is warmer.
      Randy is an adult,he made the decision to raft the Rio Grande in the dead of winter so no one else is to blame but himself .
      When first interviewed Linda herself said that Randy” wasn’t all there”.What did she mean by that? Was his obsession overwhelming ?
      Maybe a trip to Santa Fe and a little help with the search will open her eyes to the type of terrain the searchers are dealing with.
      All in all..I can understand her frustrations. I just hope that Randy will be found soon and we can all get some closure.
      God bless Sasha,Cynthia,Roger and all you others who have halted your personal life’s for the sake of Randy.

    • Hate to say it… A couple of us in PMing, have predicted this action when the story broke. Jeremy maybe correct to the “stages” of grief, Yet we all have seen the what lure of the Gold can do to some. This is a sad example of greed imo. I’ll stop there before I say what I truly feel.

      • I also agree with Jeremy. Anger is definitely a stage of grief. Linda needs to understand that many of us have felt we knew exactly where the treasure was and it wasn’t there. Praying may help her more then trying to solicit a lawyer, and continue to keep faith that the people that are desperately trying to find Randy won’t quit until they do.
        Stay strong Linda, and try not to lash out at the very people who are trying to help bring your treasure home.

    • I agree with Jeremy, I’m going to cut her a little slack. I look at her words as coming from a grief stricken relative not a drama queen trying to make this about herself.

      @ onuat, what she was quoted as saying in the article was; “He checked the water the day before, and he said the water was fine, but yes, he’s never been rafting,” she said. “You can put that he’s not the sharpest tool in the shed.” When I read that I thought it was a little cold even for an ex-wife.

      I do find it odd that she requires you to join her group to read her finding Randy page on facebook. I can understand requiring someone to log-in to make a comment, but not to see the page. Millions of people don’t like facebook and don’t have an account there that would go read the page about Randy. Perhaps one of those people has some information that might help……….Just my opinion, make the facebook page public, it would get a lot more exposure.

    • This is a statement of where our society is at as a whole. Many feel that they are owed something because they are here, they don’t see any advantage to hard work or thought to improve their situation. If something happens that doesn’t go according to plans it must be someone else’s fault and therefore they hold no liability for their actions and deserve some compensation. I don’t see any grief in the above statement.IMO

    • Dal,

      I think the Hemisphere Magazine’s article by Margie Goldsmith holds some relevance at a time like this. It was published in late 2012 and includes this passage.

      Which isn’t to say the quest should be undertaken lightly. ” There are dangers involved,” Fenn says. ” Things can complicate the search— earthquakes, mudslides, forest fires, floods, trees, falling rocks. There are those who have been at risk in water when they attempted to search someplace where it was not really safe to go. Some have not been prepared to face the elements after they parked their car and started walking. Some have lacked the proper clothing, food and water.”

    • Thanks for sharing, Dal. I’m just trying to get the timeline straight. When you wrote the date it was copied from Linda’s blog, did you mean Feb 5? “Linda Bilyeu’s comments as copied from her website on January 5th, 2016”

      • wendyjo,

        I read the comments on Linda’s page and the quotes above range from Feb 1 – Feb 5 and not everything Linda wrote was quoted here by Dal. But if you click on the link Dal provided scroll down to the Feb 1 entry and start reading from there. to get a full understanding.

        Also I agree with Goofy, Linda is going through a very difficult time right now and over the past 3 weeks. I’m not going to get worked up about this and I suggest no one else does either, all IMO.

    • I just read this posting and hope the family can find peace. I was tsken back by the comments posted on Linda’s blog. I have spent countless hours along with other induviduals searching for Randy and sent money to the Santa Fe Human Society and the Randy goFundMe site. My time is very expensive as with others too. We are behind the scenes searching for Randy scouring the photos, maps, blogs and putting together scenarios. As i mentioned on another blog, there are thousands of people searching and this was was the only time something like this happened-less than .01%. I agree with Jeremy P. that the family is going through the stages of losing a family member, but we are too. In no way should Mr. Fenn disclose the chest. Can you imagine the thousands of people that would be impacted by this request? The time, money and resources used to go on trips? This is my hobby and i love it. Randy made a bad decision and did not listen to family members or public messages not to search in the winter. He ignored those warnings and did not use good judgement and proper planning to communicate with family members and friends. He put his best friend Leo at risk and i’m suprised the Human Society didnt seize Leo for his risky behavior. No dog life jacket. I also feel that the some of statements are harsh and directed at an 85 year old man and compassion should have been used. An apology should be submitted to Mr. Fenn. Mr. Fenn and the Fenn searchers no doubt went above and beyond what is provided in a search and rescue as well as provided this at no cost to the family. I have more to say about this, but i’ll wait for the right time.

    • Dal,

      Thanx for the clarafication. I was reading comments in my e-mail just a moment ago and came across 21 ponies comment and thought to myself – hmm, somethings up. So I followed the link here.

      It is so sad that things have gone sour. I’m no lawyer, but I would think that this is not worth pursuing to litigation. There is just so much overwhelming evidence that Randy was in the wrong place at the wrong time and was not adequately prepared for the undertaking on that fateful day.

      I have no doubt that others will be drawn into her camp that it’s all “so-in-so’s” fault because “fill in the blank”. Someone could say, “Let’s blame the checkout clerk at Big4 for selling a raft at this time of year – what were they thinking?” – Ad nauseum.

      Here’s hoping for closure as soon as possible,

      • What a shame it had to come to this.I understand grief is a terrible thing, but to threaten legal action at the very ppl that went above and beyond to help you is awful.

        • If you read her blog carefully, her lawyer comments appear related to her frustration with the authorities in the Santa Fe area. It does not appear to me that she had any interest in suing Forrest. So maybe cut her a little more slack. If the detective handling the case did not return calls for five days (and did worse in the first week of the search for those who recall), I might be thinking of suing the police department myself.

          • Dick Evans, Randy’s family truly appreciates your words. You seem to understand exactly where we are coming from. Whoever you are, thank you.

    • In the light of recent events I feel compelled to repeat several comments. When searching please don’t get target fixation or become obsessed with your solve to the point where you ignore these fundamental guidelines.

      If you can’t make two trips from your car to your solve in several hours, then don’t go.

      Don’t search anywhere an 80 year old man could not carry a heavy backpack.

      The treasure is hidden more than 8.25 miles north of the northern limits of Santa Fe, New Mexico.

      The treasure is very definitely in the Rocky Mountains.

      Never search alone or in the winter when nighttime temperatures are low.

      Carry some kind of device that will make your location known at all times.

      And something I have not said before, if you are going into rough country it is probably best to leave your pets at home. f

      • Target Fixation : I am curious if that is a Military term? I have terrible target fixation it seems my sights waver, maybe I need to hold my breath more. I thank you for your well intended advise.

    • It’s all just really sad. I don’t think we can take any of this content at face value it’s the desperate words of someone who is losing hope and on the verge of beginning to grieve for what is likely a tragic outcome. I hope she and her family finds peace and understand a legal pathway to resolution is the farthest route away from doing so. I also hope Forrest understands that he has no responsibility for anything that has happened here. We always tend to focus on the bad at the exclusion of the good in times of trial. Yet the numbers of families, relationships, and individuals who have received positive and lasting benefit from being drawn into the mountains cannot be understated. Peace to Randy and his family and safe wishes to everyone continuing to venture into high places pursuing the answer to this puzzle.

  30. It seems Linda is alienating those who can help her the most. The detective is no longer answering her calls. Forrest was most polite in telling her that Randy was looking in the wrong place. Where is her thank you to him for all he has done in this search? She is starting to alienate those of us on this blog……as she thinks Facebook is her salvation. It was nice to finally receive a report on Leo.

  31. Of all the responses here, the one that stands out to me is this one. The person that had previously rafted 2 miles north and swamped his boat. I haven’t read anyone searching the waters in depth. Perhaps Randy did in fact fall in and got stuck by an undercut rock. IMO check the WATER if diver needed secure them…. I live too far to help…. If I were family I too would want closer, if only his dog could speak ugh!!! God Bless all who continue in THE SEARCH for Randy. Be safe. Praying from across the miles for a positive outcome…Sending Much Love and insights for all.

    • Karen,

      If I remember correctly in the beginning stages of the search when NM SAR was involved they did check the water using divers and helicopters. This was talked about in length in one of the first few blogs, although I don’t remember which one. You’d have to read all the blogs in order to find that information. The only water they were not able to check was the lake due to the layer of ice. Hope this helps.

  32. I agree with some of the posters above, she isn’t grieving, it sounds more like panic. I dont know if she was getting alimony from Randy or not. But her comments sound more greedy and grief.
    “Give us the treasure”????
    “We need a Lawyer”???

    How would any of those bring Randy back.
    They wouldn’t

    But they will bring money.

    I’m assuming the family attorney pawned them off to someone in Sante Fe because they knew there is no case.

    You can’t blame someone else for your stupidity. Well, let me rephrase that, “You shouldn’t be able to blame someone else….”
    But this is America. Home of the entitled.

    On top of that, how much effort and resources has been given by FF to find Randy.

    I am also assuming that since they cant find a body, it will take a while, if ever, for life insurance to pay out.

    It’s been about a month. I can see where panic may start to come in if your were depending on someone else financially that is no longer there to support you.

    It’s a sad time.

    For everyone…

    Be careful out there.

    • The treasure she was asking for was Randy’s body, not Forrest’s treasure. The people she wants to sue are the local authorities, not Forrest. Please don’t jump to unfortunate conclusions.

  33. This is getting to be a bigger puzzle than finding the Treasure, some questions I have:

    If Randy’s search goal was up Frijoles canyon (the poem might lead one up a canyon) why would he land his raft on the east side??

    Why did Leo stay at the Raft? Dog would surely follow master out of the east side of canyon

    Did Leo gather the raft and items and place them neatly; some kind of herding instinct and make his own shelter?

    Did someone else gather the raft and place it there then move on?

    Although evidence points to Randy being at the raft location, that may not be true just so many other strange questions don’t add up.

  34. The stages of grieving:

    Denial (It can’t be. It must be a mistake.)
    Anger (They don’t know how I feel. Blames God.)
    Bargaining (“I won’t ask another thing God, if you’ll bring my loved one back.”)
    Depression (This is usually the “I” stage. Self blame.)
    Acceptance (Accepting the inevitable and talking about it.)

    I, along with others, have personally gone through these stages. Linda may be showing grieving stages, but there seems to be things that are “out of the ordinary” with this. She asks Mr. Fenn where the treasure is and says it’s not about the treasure, but wanting their treasure home. She denies what Mr. Fenn tells her about the location isn’t where Randy went and her words of ‘I’m calling BS!’ comes next. Why say the following statement: ‘Come y’all do you really think there is hidden treasure?’ Ummm…I believe she does. Why else would she ask Mr. Fenn where it’s at? Instead of hiring an attorney Pro Bono, why not hire search teams Pro Bono to look for Randy with all those who are out there searching for him now? Hiring an attorney is wanting financial gain from someone. What happened to finding Randy???

    As to her previous comment about Randy not being the “sharpest tool in the shed”? Those are “razor-sharp tongues” one ex-spouse says to another. My sisters and I witnessed these from our divorced parents. Belittling the other was common until they each grew up.

    • She wants “their treasure” which is Randy back. She does not want Forrest’s treasure. She wants the lawyer to sue the local authorities, who are not calling her back, etc. Please do not impute crass motives to a woman who is clearly in pain. Please read her blog carefully. The lawyer comments are not even near to the Forrest comments.

      • Dal, you may have done her a disservice by quoting her lawyer comments out of context. You may want to re-read the blog and edit your statements above. Just a suggestion. You may have a different take on it than I do.

        • Dick, with her comment today I’m starting to wonder about her motives.

          I have yet to hear back from Forrest Fenn about his chances of possibly being directionally dysfunctional…Randy was searching the correct coordinates. That is a fact! I have heard multiple times that when Forrest doesn’t get his way or feels pressured he stops responding to the conversation at hand. Hmmm. I did also hear that 2 weeks ago he was pressuring someone to appear on the Today Show with him, she refused, wants nothing to do with the spotlight. He cut off contacts with her. Good for her! I can’t tell you who I’m referring to yet, but will one day.

          Now she’s attacking Fenn for what reason? What correct coordinates are a fact? I’m still trying to treat her as being delusional from worry and grief, but it is getting more difficult to do so.

          • This is starting to seem mighty suspicious to me, but I suspect everyone until proven otherwise.

          • Goofy, John Pearson, who sometimes posts as John Brown, and who has flown in the helicopter with Forrest to search and who has spent a lot of time on the ground searching for Randy, has stated that he thought Bandelier was in the accepted treasure hiding area because it was “on the map” and that Forrest had previously stated that if something was “on the map” it was fair game. Many searchers had interpreted that this might mean that the 8.5 mile rule, which is somewhat vague anyway, was not a hard fact that ruled out Bandelier. I am agnostic about this. But I would not trash his ex-wife for misunderstanding “the rules” since many searchers don’t think Randy was out-of-bounds. Also, it seems clear from her statements (clear to me at least) that she admitted she might be confused about the way Forrest was describing directions after her initial comments — she used a qualifying word like perhaps or something like that. I don’t agree with her on a number of things, but I think she is less guilty than you, Dal, and others on this thread are making her out to be. Not innocent, but less guilty and under a lot of stress. People are accusing her of wanting the treasure and hiring lawyers to get it, when she wants Randy (her treasure) and spoke of lawyers in the context of the local authorities doing a poor job. Just trying to clarify things a bit. At least that is my interpretation, even if I may not agree with other things she may have said or done along the way.

          • Dick I don’t know any searchers that think Randy’s area is in the search zone. That area was a very popular search area back in the beginning and has been searched thoroughly. I was one of them……This was before Fenn came out with his statements. Fenn has given very few rock solid statements about the treasure. WWWH is not a dam is one of them, the treasure is at least 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe is another. Fenn also clarified what he means by north.

            If John Brown wants to believe it’s in the search area that’s up to him; but it is clearly not and Fenn has verified that recently. I’m saying all that to hopefully prevent anyone else from going into that dangerous area.

            But I actually don’t see what that matters; what if Randy was in the Wyoming camp and got sucked under rafting the Madison in his pool toy? It’s a wonder it hasn’t already happened with some of the search stories about folks searching that area. There was one couple that had to be rescued two years in a row doing the same thing on the river up there.

            I don’t see what her goal is or how she feels it’s productive attacking Fenn who has taken an active part at considerable expense to help search for Randy. Like I said, I’m willing to cut her some slack being delusional with grief and worry for the time being. Perhaps she is just lashing out; mad at Randy for searching for a treasure she feels doesn’t exist.

          • I was stunned to read the things Linda is now saying about Forrest. How could she possibly “know” Randy was correct about his solve. Forrest is the only one that knows where the treasure is and if he says Randy was not in the right area, she should accept that. I have a feeling one or more people have been calling Linda and filling her head with venomous thoughts about Forrest and the treasure hunt. Now who would do that? I was very surprised that she didn’t say anything about how grateful she is for all the people who have been spending their time and money in the search for Randy. I don’t know of any other missing person that has received so much attention and had so much effort expended in their search than Randy. I understand her husband passed away 6 months ago and maybe her grief for him is clouding her mind in regard to Randy’s disappearance. I hope Linda comes to her senses as her current train of thought makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

          • Regarding coordinates, I believe she means that Randy was North of Santa Fe (not “south or southeast of the area” that she said Forrest had stated to her, which I believe was a misunderstanding by two people — Forrest saying Randy was south of the area he had defined as being the treasure area, and her saying Randy was north or northwest of Santa Fe). I think she was trying to clarify this issue with Forrest when he cut her off, and why she used the word “possibly” in the statement you highlighted. She may also think that Randy is North of Santa Fe and acceptably 8.5 miles distant from Santa Fe, even though not due north, which some on the hunt may have thought a possibility since Forrest is cagy and tricky with words (that’s meant as a compliment to Forrest by the way).

        • Nope Dick, I don’t believe I’ve done her any disservice. I can read just fine, thanks. That remark and the others that she has made and the email she has sent are all very clear.

          • So you do have a different take on it. I hope no one gets banned for attacking her on the basis of out of context materials. That’s up to you and Goofy, of course. Are we allowed to attack her based on in- or out-of-context materials? What are the rules here? The selection of quotes that you and Goofy have posted of hers (that she did not post here) is generating a lot of personal attacks and questioning of her motives. Is that what was intended? I can join in on that, too, but I thought that kind of stuff was frowned on here. Frankly, I don’t think Forrest needs me to defend his reputation against Linda, but if you think it would help, I can start slamming a woman who is in great pain and having tremendous, unbelievable frustration with the local authorities.

        • I tend to agree with Dick here. A family lost a loved one forever. Attacking Linda here, regardless of what she said or threatened, and disallowing any criticism whatsoever of the Chase, does not strike me as fair and balanced. Humans have been hunting for lost treasure for centuries, and fatal results have occurred with frequency. If the treasure remains indefinitely in the mountains, it is an absolute certainty that this will happen again and again, just to be clear, regardless of whatever guidelines are in place. I accept those risks, but I don’t expect others to see any sanity in that.

  35. I have gone through the RIo Grande Gorge on Kayak and raft from Arroyo Hondo bridge, site of originally built crossing to Tres Piedras (see Long John Dunn’s toll bridge on Wicki) through Power Line falls, that drop below the Rio GrandGeorge Bridge then down and through the Rock Garden rapids class 3/4 to Pilar and Velarde, where the Rio becomes warm waters and it is tough in June almost impossible to navigate. Some years flowing at 6 to10,000 cfs. at Pilar. Also I have traveled many times up from Cochiti Lake to white rock via small motor powered boat in ideal water conditions, depth and temp in May and june are best, but I cannot for the life of me understand how one without a life jacket and small dog to tend too, would believe they could trek (float) down it in winter, so many obstructions, sharp rocks, trees and snags, ice and snow?

    But the one thing Randy had as an ace in the hole was the neoprene waders if they were in tact and sealing out the water and cold, he could have carefully negotiated along the river bank if he stuck to the sand and leap frogged over rocks and cliffs eventually back to his parking place at Buckman. My gut tells me he did until an obstacle along the rio forced him east.

    The type of climbing to exit east up to the top with wader boots would be far more dangerous and fatiguing, than the river route, although we should add doing it a NIGHT is even more hazardous.

    However Randy must have felt an urgency because of Leo, and so he may have left all his food at the raft and struck a path north along the rio where he would go purchase another raft and return to retrieve his doggie.

    The question should become did Randy strike east up to the mesa or stay low and tread along the river. In either case he would be dealing with hypothermia unless he found a cave or made a fire in some similar shelter.

    I feel at almost 70 I should not want to have a search party forced into looking for me.

    Tom T

  36. Here is my theory
    Frijoles canyon was Randy’s search goal; he originally landed there and explored with Leo( thus tracks there) Leo hurt his foot in the rough terrain ; so he paddled Leo across the river with the raft and waded back across the river to explore Frijoles by himself; this prevented Leo from following him. He placed raft and paddles as shelter for Leo.
    Randy somehow got trapped/ hurt/ killed in the Canyon.

  37. I have to admit that I was irritated when I read Linda’s comments and the back handed swipes at FF and others. It seemed odd and a display of totally misdirected anger–but I decided like many of you to give her some slack and not let it distract me from the real issue, namely, where is Randy? I hope that Linda refocuses her attention too because a lot of the criticism she is making is probably counterproductive. Whether or not others are doing what she wants them to do makes her seem ungrateful for what they have done and the extraordinary effort so many have made to help and find Randy. That type of criticism may make her feel better but it does nothing for Randy or his kids. It baffles me why she would want a lawyer–a professional tracker would probably be more useful and relevant.

  38. Grief can manifest its self in many ways not recognizable. Given time, hopefully the family will realize where blame should rightly be placed. If after that time Linda “lawyers up”, that would be a whole different ballgame…..not grief.

    Time reveals all things.

  39. Forrest has made it clear, from the very start, that is is where an 80 year old man can go. There are risks in everything we do, stay at home so you cant be in a car accident and a plane can hit your house. I believe that all of us searchers felt sure enough about knowing that we had the right spot to go look, just like Randy, but that doesn’t mean the he, or us, were right. I feel very sorry for Linda and all of Randy’s family, but FF doesn’t owe them anything and isn’t responsible for Randy’s misfortune. If you go by her logic, FF needs to give the treasure to ALL of us who came back empty handed. I know his family needs closure and I applaud all of those who are putting their lives on the line to find him, they are doing more than anyone could ask.
    Thank You Forrest for giving us the thrill of the chase and all that you have done to help find Randy, you have gone far beyond the call of duty. Thank You to all of the searchers looking for Randy. May God Bless you all with safe and successful searches. May the Peace Of God fill ALL who are involved in this sad situation.

    • Amen. True to form, Forrest has handled this situation with utmost class.

      It bears repeating that Forrest doesn’t owe the family anything, yet he has done everything humanly possible to help find Randy.

      Mr. Fenn has shown that at 85 he has more physical and mental stamina than most 20 year olds. He is a self made man who has worked hard his whole life and it shows. Good habits are hard to break.

      Forrest has been abundantly clear from the beginning: wait until spring, do not go where an 80 year old man would go carrying 42 pounds, the treasure is not located in a dangerous place, etc.

      He has been saying these things for Years.

      If treasure seekers choose to ignore Forrest’s advice, well that is Their choice.

  40. Treasure makes folkZ do KraZy ThingZ.
    Just a thought – what may become of the person that may find Randy in these circumstances? Perhaps everyone might should wait until nature gives Randy up.

  41. To Linda; Life is to short on this earth. Love Happiness and Friends are important. Read FF TTOTC, and when you are done you will realize that memories are a gift for you alone, and “possibly” those left behind. FF has said it in so many ways; his memories may not move on, but in his heart he has reiterated those that just my touch on those in the future. With that said; it’s sad to think one is looking to blame another for one’s own actions. It’s not easy to grieve a loss, but let life teach us how to move on an cherish what remains. My heart bleeds also for your loss of Randy ; but go outside and cherish the rising Sun and Setting Moon and ask questions Why..Write a Memoir.

  42. I was at the funeral of a family member yesterday. Sorry….I am feeling the loss
    So lots going on for me. And trying to keep up with the missing Randy, which is also very sad….so forgive me….I am a loss too at the direction that forrest is saying. I may have missed something on the posting of all this. I was taking what forrest was saying as a hint of somekind but felt that Randy was northish to Santa Fe….If anyone can correct me or fill me in on something pertaining to this. I would appriciate it alot. I am tired and have been driving all night. Thank you.

    Forrest, Please do not tell anyone where the treasure is…….for I want to find it. too. Something is very off about all of this with Randy, I tried to tell you, but no one was listening….I have said it before. God Bless Forrest and all who have looked for Randy……

    Love, Lou Lee, who has been through hell and back, chased by Bears, in Jellystone Park, Lived in Whoville and prospected for Gold.

  43. According to Dal, Linda said:

    “I think I might have possibly offended Mr. Fenn today. He told me with all certainty that Randy was searching West to Southwest of the area, when his clue is actually North to Northwest. But, after much research via an expert Randy was actually searching North to Northwest of Santa Fe. And that, is a fact! Randy might have went down the river on a raft in the winter because he had a damn good reason to do so.

    Possibly, Mr. Fenn is directionally challenged, such as myself?”

    This was her words, not ff’s, so to be fair to all parties she sees (emotionally) it this way, not the way according, and explained, in the guidelines given to Searchers who study and form opinions based on the instructions from the “Oracle” who created this treasure hunt ff.

    Linda has truly misstated and misunderstood what ff said, and so did Randy, this is a very good example of the “amature” and “directionally,challenged, misinformed” trying to make “the area” fit their fantasy. That is how Randy got so far off base with SAFETY and DIRECTION!

    Whoever her expert may be in Navigation, a science of which I am very familiar, may be in small part correct that Frijoles is slightly North of Santa Fe, 4 or 5 miles but not any where near 8.3 miles from the city limits, as declared by ff in no uncertain terms.

    I do not for the life of me see how anyone would doubt ff has an uncanny knowledge of direction, and feeling for human safety as well, after all he was a pilot with more time in the cockpit than many people spend in being educated.

    Linda’s EXPERT may see that as “slightly North of Santa Fe” but not 8.3 miles which is at a latitude (North) at Camel Rock Casino, 35 degrees 49′ 17.87″ Frijoles is at the Rio Grande River, 35 degrees 45′ 04.53″ south of this point of latitude, therefore way south and of what ff said, and THIS IS THE MOST SALIENT POINT if Linda correctly stated ff as saying, it was west of the TARGET, I was a Navy Gyroscope Tech and Dead Reckoning Navigator and pilots like ff were much better at this than me.

    If ff says Randy was South and West of the Target, I can agree and if he says it was no place for an 80 year old I too totally agree, in conclusion her expert does not know the whole story regarding these boundaries both geographical and safety wise.

    Linda’s comments come from a motivation which I do not understand and were half way thought through, sometimes when we are emotional it is best that we stop, regroup and then use logic and knowledge to get the best result.

    What the brave women and men who are leading this search for Randy need to know is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the TRUTH.

    Tom T

    • There have been many posts and comments by Forrest and by Dal (quoting Forrest) in the past that left Bandelier in play, including the fact that North of Santa Fe could mean northwest or northeast, even slightly north of west or slightly north of east. This results in drawing a half circle to the north and northwest and northeast of Santa Fe with an 8.5 mile radius, and a center decided by whatever is in the mind of the searcher — not a straight horizontal line along a latitude. It was also stated that Bandelier was on the map and anything that was on the map was in play. The map has Bandolier Nat Mon printed on it. And that the Jemez Mountains could be considered part of the Rocky Mountains, even if geologists disputed that. Originally it was not clear or not stated that the 8.5 miles was from the city limits — many assumed it would have been from the center of town until very recently. Because of these ambiguities, and the difficulty keeping up with all statements by Forrest, it was not unreasonable for Randy to be considering Frijoles. Unfortunately, many posters do not have all the facts from the five-plus year history of the chase, and can come to some uninformed conclusions.

      • Here is a fairly recent post by Dal that helps explain what I said above:

        Dal on September 20, 2015 at 5:49 pm said:

        After I wrote that Forrest told me that he considers everything between 271 and 89 degrees to be north…
        That’s the entire top half of the compass…
        I wrote that up somewhere..maybe as a comment on this post..
        Anyway..that shoots my idea of north all to heck..or at least what a pilot would consider north…
        So don’t follow my opinion on this post…”

        This is the very last post in the section of Dal’s website that is called “Bandelier National Monument — Not”

      • Dick, there are many dangerous places in the Rockies that are definitively within the search area. I’m not sure this discussion serves anyone, You have defended a grieving family in previous posts. That’s admirable. Extending that discussion to proving a point simply for the sake of “being correct” is less so. It doesn’t matter if this area is in play or not. It matters that Randy is missing and has not been found. It matters that this community has gone to great lengths, personal expense, and have put their own safety at risk to find him. So how about we focus on that aspect of this story rather than talking down to this community and lamenting how uninformed everyone here is. Tell me, what have you personally done to help find Randy?

        • Threerocks, Dal has the record of ff’s definition and it agrees with the true geographical definition of North (8.3) miles, it is not and never will be an arc , and Dick just does not want to see the truth and has obviously gotten latitude challenged, confused, and does not know the history of ff’s area of the search, so no matter what we show or tell him he will find a flaw in or reasoning, knowledge. I have studied and searched since 2011 and NEVER below the latitude of Camel Rock Casino, because ff made it clear and defined the search as starting from that LATITUDE:

          the angular distance of a place north or south of the earth’s equator, or of a celestial object north or south of the celestial equator, usually expressed in degrees and minutes.
          “at a latitude of 51° N”
          synonyms: parallel
          “Toronto and Nice are on the same latitude”
          scope for freedom of action or thought.
          “journalists have considerable latitude in criticizing public figures”
          synonyms: freedom, scope, leeway, space, breathing space, flexibility, liberty, independence, free rein, license, room to maneuver, elbow room, wiggle room, freedom of action
          “he gave them a lot of latitude”

          Therefore, Dick is using the second definition of Latitude as his guide, so let him proceed with his line of reason, but the truth is the truth, and if he researches the facts, the truth is there, some will never accept it.

          Tom T

          • Thanks for the clarification TT, appreciate the additional information.

            It’s difficult to watch something as sad as Randy’s disappearance turn so ugly with the finger pointing that’s occurred after the fact. I don’t agree with what Linda wrote about Forrest but I find it hard to judge her given the incredible loss she and her family is feeling right now. Dick Evans on the other hand, whomever he or she may be, should know better than to be stirring things up here on this issue.

  44. I just came across the comments on this blog post and wanted to share my opinion. I am Randy’s youngest daughter. I did not read 21ponies post so I am unsure what his/her statements were. I have a few things to share regarding the comments that followed.

    The section of Linda’s (my mom) blog that you copied and pasted onto your website were written out of frustration, aggravation, and exhaustion. We had run out of leads and had no idea what else to think or where else to look. Out of desperation, we thought maybe Mr. Fenn had more information about Randy’s (my dad) solve and plan from emails, letters, or their conversation at the book signing. Linda, along with the rest of the family, have NO desire to know where the treasure is for the reason of finding it and keeping it. We do not care about the treasure. We are not treasure hunters. We were slightly hopeful that maybe knowing where the treasure was would help with the search. We realize now that it would not be helpful. Our minds have been on a complete roller coaster of emotions the past three weeks. Some things were said out of anger and frustration but were not intended to speak ill of anyone, especially the treasure community. I think you will see many positive and appreciative comments about your community on Linda’s blog.

    I also wanted to comment that our family was in search of a lawyer ONLY for support and answers to questions regarding how the case is being handled by SFPD. This investigation is being handled so poorly and inefficiently. You will also see that in Linda’s blog. We have NO intention or desire to sue Mr. Fenn. There is no mention of this anywhere in Linda’s blog.

    Regarding the Facebook group that we created, it is a closed group but anyone and everyone is welcome to join. It was created to be a smaller group of people who had useful suggestions and as a common place for search notes/photos to be shared. There have been many beneficial relationships formed and conversations held in the group.

    A response to Mark’s comment below – Linda and Randy have two adult children and child support payments ended a long time ago. As Randy’s daughter, I do not think my dad even had life insurance. I was never informed of that. We do not care about gaining any financial benefit, we just want him found.

    I want to say a big thank you to Dick Evans, who seems to understand what our family is experiencing. I don’t know who you are but we truly appreciate your comments. Everything you said was accurate for our family. I want to give you a hug!

    I want to close with a statement that Linda wrote in her blog on February 5th. As a family, we all agree on this –
    “Feb 5 – In the water or on the ground, we will find him. This in no way implies that the family expects searchers to continue to search and endanger their lives! While we do appreciate all the assistance of the volunteer searchers, we do understand that they have lives also, they must move on. We will not hold this against them in any way, shape or form! We will not be discouraged or disappointed. We will always be thankful for the time and energy they spent on helping to find Randy. The family commends their heroic endurance and we salute them.”

    Thank you to all who have been helpful and supportive in this situation. We are hoping for closure soon.

    • Michelle, I speak for myself and I think many on here in saying that we are truly sorry for what your family is going through right now. My heart goes out to your family and I hope you are able to find answers and peace soon. Please just look past the short term action and reaction around words said in frustration and focus on being strong as a family unit. The vast majority of the community is not judging your family and fundamentally hope you are able to emerge from this place of anxiety and uncertainty soon. Your family remains in our thoughts and prayers.

    • Hi Michelle, this must be so hard for you and your family. Thanks for sharing how you feel. I come from a place of non-judgement, and have compassion and understanding for your family during this difficult time.

    • Michelle I thank you so much for taking time to try to explain your situation. Most of us have never experienced such a traumatic event. Your love is deep and this I do understand.

      I have a two daughters and a son that are in their thirties. I do think they would love the fact that me as their father loved living my life the way I chose. No mater what that life was. They except that I am Me.

      I as their father I would hate any pain that my actions would cause them . But they would always know I loved them no matter what.

      I am sorry you are going through all of this. I went and looked for two days and I am sorry I could not find your father. I would of spent more time if my family did not need me here. My mom needs 24/7 care I’m sorry I could not do more for you or him.

      You growing up with him. Can you tell me if he had survival skills. I think we all need a hope to hang on to and this is very valuable information.

      I met your dad at the book signing and I thought he told me he could survive in any conditions and I told him to be careful. Any information as to what he packed with him may help us understand if he could be alive.

      Did he talk with you about his adventures and or Ideas of where he may travel? Where he was going to put in anything or inside information on his friend and his knowledge. The person That Knew where Your dad was and phoned your mom an the 14th. Lack of communication has not helped maybe you can help please

      Michelle I hope you know there are many of us that want to help bring closure to all of this and I still hang on to him being alive. The Color of clothes hats gloves color of his packs. I’m not sure if the distance between you will not allow you to know any of these facts.

      I know as a father no distance could ever keep the love for each other apart. Please if you can help. Nothing may be to small as to information you may share.

      Can you answer any of the questions about your Dad in the missing Facts page. We are not giving up.

      . My prayers go out to your family. Please ask everyone you know and get back with us Thank you. JB

    • Hello Michelle. Our hearts go out to you and your family. We can’t imagine what your family is going through. We do feel Randy as being a part of the community and we are affected. The words Linda used in her blogs were quite hurtful towards Mr. Fenn. If Mr. Fenn knew where Randy was, he would have been the first to find him and bring Randy home to you. Mr. Fenn went searching while not knowing where Randy is because he cares. He also checked on Leo. I hope the family realizes what a kind person Mr. Fenn truly is. I do hope Linda calls Mr. Fenn personally.

      Thoughts and prayers continue to be with you and your family.

  45. Michelle,
    It might be a good idea to have Linda refrain from blogging her emotion for awhile.

    We have all been going through loss and Mr. Fenn who is 85 years old has been on the receiving end and I don’t think it’s fair to him. Can you imagine how he must have felt receiving a demand for the treasure from Linda and then having her blog about it? That’s no different than asking for money. How he must have felt being called directionally dysfunctional? For him to be told that he didn’t respond to communication or that his Thrill of the Chase is a manipulation? How he spent money and his own TIME searching himself and coordinating searches for Randy? That he was dealing with publicity and pointed questions from interviewers. Those words Linda used are very harsh and were directed at an elderly person and made public. I feel for your family but when I see this, it breaks my heart.

    I believe a formal public apology from Linda to Mr. Fenn is due.

    I understand your family is grieving and hope they take care of themselves.

      • I believe that it is time for us all to move on – on this subject. I do not think folks should be pressed into apologizing or telling where the treasure is. These forums can become tooooo personal sometimes. Folks don’t HAVE to do anything.
        Any possible future communication between Fenn & Linda can be private. Honestly.

    • Well said Rose, and thank everybody again who has been busy helping and searching for Randy. You guys really couldn’t have done more.

  46. Michelle S, you are a gifted writer and I applaud your words, thoughts and feelings which you have eloquently expressed. You seem very mature and well educated.

    This community of people called “Treasure Hunters” are all in many ways like your father Randy who was obviously a brave hunter and one person I would love to go exploring the wilderness with, and more so than that he seems to have imparted a very wonderful gift to you, wisdom and courage, my feelings are expressed in this poem:

    Out of the night that covers me,
    Black as the pit from pole to pole,
    I thank whatever gods may be
    For my unconquerable soul.

    In the fell clutch of circumstance
    I have not winced nor cried aloud.
    Under the bludgeonings of chance
    My head is bloody, but unbowed.

    Beyond this place of wrath and tears
    Looms but the Horror of the shade,
    And yet the menace of the years
    Finds, and shall find me, unafraid.

    It matters not how strait the gate,
    How charged with punishments the scroll,
    I am the master of my fate:
    I am the captain of my soul.[1]


    Consider how your father met his challenge and regardless of the outcome has left a legacy, not unlike what ff has attempted to do.

    Our world would be a much less interesting place without people like this and now I would include you too.

    Tom T

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