Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Five

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Thanks…

 

dal…

858 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Five

    • Thanks 42,
      Great article. I noticed the Smith River was one of the rivers noted. Dal had a comment about the Smith River back in Dec. I am not sure if it’s the same river?
      But either way, our resources need to be saved.

      dal on December 22, 2015 at 10:52 pm said:

      About 40 years ago I borrowed a friends seriously unserviceable rubber raft and spent two weeks sailing down the Smith River thru the Little Belt Mountains. A serpentine, religious experience of a healing trip that I can, to this very day, close my eyes and resurrect with satisfying pleasure. I’m no Jiminy Cricket but in my mind it’s a lovely adventure and if you’re looking for something beautiful and “in the wood” to do in Montana next year, you might consider floating it yourself. If you don’t have a raft at your disposal you can take the trip thru one of the rafting companies out there.
      But here’s the thing. Do it now. The Smith is in danger by another mining experiment in Montana. If you’ve ever seen the spoils around a giant mining mistake you won’t soon forget it. The devastation and fouling is total and inescapable. The scene can make a grown man lash out in anger and confusion. For more info about the likely threats to the Smith, look here:

      http://www.saveoursmith.com

      Only 7,175 signatures to date.

      • I floated the Smith twice during the 80s. We went in canoes. It’s a great river that falls through a long canyon. Two nights of camping if you take your time and fish. Brown trout and rainbows. On the first float I saw a black bear. On the second I saw a mountain lion.

  1. Hi All – I wanted to begin a new topic of conversation: GPS Coordinates. Mr. Fenn has stated that if a person had the correct GPS coordinates they could find the chest. So I decided to test this statement using Google Earth and a Free GPS app on my phone. I logged in the coordinates for the end of my driveway using each device and calculated the difference in the two readings.

    Then I went out to Google Earth and using the line feature, logged the coordinates of two points about 5,000 feet apart and calculated the difference. Doing this I determined that each coordinate to the 6th decimal place (1 millionth of a degree – the limit of accuracy on Google Earth) spans approximately 1.78 feet.

    Finally, I applied that calculation to the difference in the GE and Free GPS coordinates above. The results: the two differed by approximately 48 feet north-south and 11 feet east-west, for a total difference of 49 feet.

    Unless there is someone in this community that has a better understanding of GPS and the use of devices, this calls Mr. Fenn’s statement into serious jeopardy. 49 feet away does not get the job done when we’re talking about a small box hidden so as not to be easily discovered.

    Does anyone have any insight into this apparent problem? Voxpops – I’d love to hear from you since it sounds like your search is reliant upon accurate GPS coordinates.

    • Spoon,
      Shucks, I really wanted to replace the $300 Garmin gps my wife hid from me, but you say any cell phone works just as good.

      • Not saying that at all, theycallmesarcastic. I’m a self-acknowledged neophite on the matter. But I can tell you that on one search trip I took my neighbor’s very expensive GPS device with me. I tested it against GE before I left – they disagreed by a fair amount. So I wrote down the coordinates of some notable locations on the trip to see it the differences were consistent from one spot to the next. Not even close! The differences between GE and the device were wildly different.

        Perhaps my neighbor needs a new device?

        Look: the real question isn’t really about the accuracy of my phone or a nice GPS device. The real question is how well they match up with Google Earth. As I pointed out in a note below, even GE coordinates have changed over time by at least 27 feet.

        • I marked my gps at an exact spot and then placed my tracks on ge. It didn’t match elevation. But I believe the coordinates, as Charlie says, are there, as are herrings/rabbit holes. But, I also believe the directions, once gps is no longer reliable are for lack of a better term, “clicks” or paces. I also believe, and have found much more that I cannot share, just cause you’ll all get lost the way I think… 🙂

          Also, how many different coordinate units are there? Which do we use? What does ge use? :-);-)

        • my point was, cell phones don’t work where there is no signal.
          Sat phones and GPS units work nearly everywhere outdoors

          • It is true cell phones do not work as a phone where there are no cell tower connections, however, the GPS on cell phones, at least on an iPhone, do work as long as they have overhead clearance required for any GPS unit. I sent one of my iPhone’s to an altitude of 103,000 feet on a weather balloon and a tracking app I had on the phone accurately tracked the path of the weather balloon from the start to the end of its journey which took it well out of reach of any cell tower.

    • Spoon, “If person had the correct GPS coordinates they could find the chest.” Physics says this has to be true. How can it not be? The key word here is “correct.”

      • Heck I’m just tickled to know for sure what the “keyword” was in that statement. That’s a first for me.

      • Mr. Fin i do not understant much of what you say but i what to know this one thig, did you not or did you hid the gps in your book

      • Hi Forrest! I’m sure the “correct” gps coordinates would bring us to the treasure, but how does one get those! If they are hidden in the poem and have to be discovered by some cryptographic gymnastics, I’ll never figure it out! 🙂

      • forget it Forrest, they’ll never get the “key” word concept.:)And, I agree with Forrest, the key is correct.

          • @Jake

            Would you be referring to the missing “a” in the line “I give you title to the gold.”

          • LitterateOne,
            I was not reffering to the missing “a” in that line, but I think I see where your coming from.
            “I give you a title to the gold.”
            I truly think Forrest hid the actual treasure itself & there isn’t anyone that’s going to change my opinion on that subject not even Forrest. If he came out today & said I lied, there is a title or whatever in the chest, not the gold & new & old things, I wouldn’t believe him because if he lied about it once then you don’t know when he’s telling the truth. I am sure Forrest is a man of his word & willing to put my life on that, Oh I already have several times….

            I was referring to another word in the poem, which I will let you know that you should omit the”a” & add an “e” when the time comes again. I have already talked about this word in older posts & most have let it go right over there heads just as I with there being no hidden treasure..

      • No need to post this on the blog since this is personal, but Forrest, in my child like excitement I can’t help responding. I noticed the coodinates of my search spot show off the mark of the exact location. It could be coincidence or not. I guess it’s part of the thrill of the chase. Sure wish I could remember the password to my old email :/

      • It wouldn’t be wise to post this on the blog either because I don’t want to encourage anyone to search in winter. But Forrest, if my search area is having a mild winter, is it too dangerous to go early, say late March? I have a bad feeling about waiting too long.

    • Maybe 49′ is accurate enough? Doesn’t the poem say if you find the blaze look quickly down. So maybe at 49′ away the blaze is apparent. GPs is accurate but for real accuracy you need a digital GPS ( DGPS). Don’t forget there are small errors not least of which is that the US Government control the clock signal. Also the GPS has to be set for different maps. A marine chart will differ from a land map for example. Also there are fluctuations in atmospherics, albeit small. My gut feeling is that with a normal GPS you will be close enough to look around and see the blaze. Happy hunting!

      • Don’t forget that many GPS units also use the Russian GPS satellite system. (GLONASS) It must be fun for a GPS unit to extrapolate data from two entirely different systems and figure out where anything is. 🙂

      • You dont need a GPS. Maybe a flashlight and a sandwich.
        If F.F. gave me the G.P.S. coordinates, be it 49 feet or 12 feet away ,I would find it . I don’t understand the reasoning for this gps debate.
        IMO Forrest just told you that you need the key word ,and trying to find G.P.S. coordinates is a waste of time.

        • Find the key word in the poem ,that start’s you on the right path,at the end of the path you will have your G.P.S. coordinates, or at least close enough to find the chest .IMO G.P.S. coordinates are not in the poem.

        • IMO Forrest has told someone that the key word that they needed to hear from them, this is just my opinion. with a big 😉

    • Spoon the coordinates are specific, therefore accuracy is dependent on the gps. A good gps will get you within a couple of feet a cheap one maybe within 10′.
      jl

      • Forrest you said…
        “If person had the correct GPS coordinates they could find the chest.” Physics says this has to be true. How can it not be? The key word here is “correct.”

        Logically, yes… but wouldn’t that “distract you from the poem” 🙂

          • Good evening Mr. Fenn, it’s a treat to see you on Dal’s blog tonight. You’ve done a fine job of assimilating a widely diverse group of folks who enjoy enchanging ideas.

            Perhaps you’ll enjoy seeing just how differently we each think [or have a good laugh]. I spent months trying to mine numerical coordinates from your poem which were all failed attempts. So, when I see the word “correct” I have fun breaking it in two halves, then gluing together new thoughts.

            Cor=> heart, a kind of fish, measure, or surprise.
            Rect=> coroner, priest, ruler, immediate

            Heart-priest, fishing priest, immediate surprise, measure with ruler, fishy coroner

            Pretty much ignoring coordinates…I might be considered a dark horse 🙂
            But I’m having fun which yields contentment.

        • I agree with not letting f mentioning having correct gps coordinates and finding the chest distract us. Coordinates can be 3D.
          In mathematics, analytic geometry (also called Cartesian geometry) describes every point in three-dimensional space by means of three coordinates coordinates

        • I suspect that distracting oneself from the poem isn’t so much about finding the treasure as it is understanding the beauty of the area in which it describes, once that is finally revealed…

      • Thanks, JL. I’m learning more as I research the subject. I did a second test while I was thinking about it. Since Mr. Fenn told us to use Google Earth, I considered whether or not we were looking at the same images of Google Earth that would have been available to him at the time he wrote the poem and hid the chest. GE is a great tool in that it provides historical images as well as current ones. So I focused on an item on the landscape and wrote down the GE coordinates using the most recent images. Then I pulled up images from 10 years ago and recorded the GE coordinates associated with that same landmark. The coordinates were different by 1 millionth of a degree north-south, and 15 millionths of a degree east-west. That is an equivalent of 27 feet.

        It’s probably irrelevant to the whole ordeal, but I’ll just put it out there as food for thought.

        • Spoon ,
          I am no expert at anything but I have found with google earth that getting the courser on the same spot is impossible. I transfer coordinates from GE to my gps and when I get to the location I am doing well if I am within 30 feet.
          jl

        • I will just have to agree with you here my friend, IMO they are not important, My old drill SSGT said to me once, Recruit remember my face, it may very well save your life one day, lets just say I will never forget his face, or the 13 weeks I went through!! 😉

    • I did a similar exercise. I used an old Garmin as I drove to work one day. Then I used those GPS coordinates on google earth and another map application on the 2 iPads I carry with me. Out of 6 points…. it was 3 dead on and 3 within 5 feet difference.

      Can’t explain why your was way out.

      • An inferior brain and talent are the most likely suspects, TZP. But I do live in the mountains, so maybe that has something to do with it. Thanks for weighing in.

    • @Spoon I can confirm that a phone device isn’t going to get you 100% precision on GPS coordinates most of the time. GPS is expensive on the battery so it first tries guessing using the cellular network or wifi if available. It’s “good enough” positioning but not the best.

    • Spoon, hunch here. great work! confirms for me that the blaze is two feet near the poem chest. well, 2 is close enough to 1.78 for me. I didnt bring my tape measure with me because I already got bear spray, canteen and cell phone hanging off my belt and all that weight keeps trying to drop my britches. thanks Spoon.

      hear that Jake Faulkner? you better think twice about a hunch.

      • Yea, heard it load & clear.
        I never said the blaze wasn’t close to the chest. I would have to think it’s very close, maybe within a couple feet, that’s probably why F said it would be unlikely someone to be within 12′ & not find it.
        So you know what county I am heading to. So which county do you see the bounty?

          • Part of my solve takes me through a part of Park County, Wy.
            I had searched near Colter’s Hell, Spirit Mountain & Rattlesnake Mountain back in August. I thought the Shoshone River was “There’ll be no paddle up your creek”. Shoshone was renamed from the Stinking Water River. Now my search is on the West side of Park.

          • Well hunch and jake ive gotten my coordinates ready to. I’ve checked and double checked. And It feels right
            ( this time ) I like numbers Ive been a builder and architect for 42yrs now. I’m ready to move, all I need is a place. I’m going to find that place this year and move there and yes ff I give you title to that location for your bones.

      • It’s not often that I’m star struck with celebrities. Living in Vegas I’ve run into some celebrities here and there. The most embarrassing for me was when I crossed paths with Teller of Penn & Teller. We chatted a bit and I asked well do you have a first name. He said no just Teller. I couldn’t understand why everyone around me was looking at me like are you being serious right now and a small crowd was starting to gather by then. It didn’t even dawn on me that he was Teller of Penn & Teller until he had made his exit. What I remember most is how uncomfortably close he stood to me. It made me wonder if he’d ever heard of personal space. But yeah, totally star struck with Mr. Fenn.

  2. From the looks of it, IMO, the chest looks like a scene of people building something. That is how I see the chase, FF wanting to build peoples spirits and character through adventure and adversary.

  3. im wondering wether the HOB could encompass two or more spans or sections or if it is one specific constrained location.

  4. Hello Forrest, So glad to see you back on the blog. Thanks again for the inscription in my Leon Gaspard book, I will treasure it forever.

    Sally2Fleming

  5. Hey Everybody, I’m still here!

    Jake mining is terrible and I signed the petition! Smiles

    I think having a Garmin BOG is imperative… using it to find the tc, maybe not so much? Not sure the poem gives GPS or elevation? I think I heard f say it distracts from the poem and the numbers would differ…
    Mark H. Loves the Chase!

    • X Mark the spot.
      http://www.saveoursmith.com

      Not all mining is terrible. To me it’s all about location & consequences. Do we really need to mine in such a beautiful place? I think not.

      Many of you have signed the petition but many of you have not.

      Please take a few seconds out of your FF treasure search & try to save this treasure. http://www.saveoursmith.com

      Forrest, I know Q&A is over for tonight, but this is a good cause for you to endorse on a larger level.

  6. Dal, I have a couple of questions that maybe you or someone can answer. I am new to the blog but have not seen a discussion about it:

    1. 1. The Thrill of the Chase book was released in 2010, a year or two after the chest was hidden. In that book only the poem was available. Too Far Too Walk book was released 3 years later (2013 I believe) with the map. My question is this, since Fenn have always repeated that we only need the poem to find the 9 clues, did he give away one of the poem clues by releasing the map? Or Is it possible that one clue is now hidden because of it? Or both?

    I understand that it may needed to be done to avoid people from going into searching into Canada, Mexico, Vietnam or some other more or less dangerous location. Just like the warnings not to dig graveyards, jump off Dams, disturb hibernating bears or spiders; or the clues about Utah, Idaho, elevations and so on. Those could be call hints or clues but they are not part of the 9 in the poem. Do I make sense?

    2. This one is for clarification only: his comments regarding Toledo and the Saskatchewan were in both occasions like a way to dismiss someone else’s incredible claims? or does he stand by them if they are put to the test?

    • Oz-
      There are people here much more qualified to answer your questions and will chime in…I am certain…

      I don’t really understand your first question…
      But I’ll take a stab at it anyway.
      First off..He tells us that he hid the treasure when he was 79 or 80. That means sometime after August of 2009 but before Late summer of 2010 when the book was made available and he announced the treasure hunt to everyone…At the first book signing event he said that he “hid” the chest..so it must have already been in it’s hidey spot. So we can discount the possibility that the chest was hidden “after” he announced the treasure hunt and the first book signing.

      I think he wrote the second book because he still had stories to tell. Remember, TTOTC is his “memoir”. He has said in interviews that he didn’t expect to sell very many. When the treasure hunt went national…and then international…books were flying out the door. I believe the treasure hunt was more successful than he imagined and his books were doing much better than he expected. When TOTC was being designed I think he was determined to limit the number of stories in it to make it affordable/readable…ie, more stories equals more illustrations, more design time and more paper, more press time…which all means more cost. I think he put the map in the second book to encourage folks to buy it…just as he put the poem in the first book to get folks to buy it…

      But after TTOTC he still had stories to tell. Stories that didn’t make it into TTOTC. But then there was so much demand for TTOTC that it seemed likely he could tell the other stories in a new book and sell a few copies…TTOTC proved to him that folks were interested in his stories, hence the second book. Since then he has said he won’t be writing more books. But after he said that he wrote the Gaspard book. I think what he meant was that he would not be writing more memoir books. Those two may be all the printed memoir stories we will be getting from Forrest. Possibly more on the web…but not printed…in my opinion…
      But if I had a buck every time Forrest did something I never expected I’d have at least two bucks in my pocket.

      I can’t remember Forrest ever saying we only need the poem to figure out the nine clues…He has said that there are nine clues in the poem…but I think he put it in poem form because he likes poetry and putting the clues in that poem would get people reading poetry who never would have considered it before… I think there were other reasons for the use of the poetic form as well.

      The other part to your first question has me thinking…
      Prior to TFTW being published we had no map. As you point out, he had already eliminated Nevada, Idaho and Utah as likely locations of the chest. But there were a lot of people who missed that since it was information that appeared on blogs and in interviews. So it’s possible that the map with just 4 states as the likely place of the chest was a way to insure that everyone had the same information about where the chest could be hidden…
      I don’t think it stepped on any of the clues in the poem..I think of the map as simply a narrowing down…a refinement…a way to make the search area more manageable.

      By the way, our friends in Canada may vehemently object to you labeling their country “dangerous”.

      Maybe he came to the realization that unpuzzling the poem was harder for us than he thought and that narrowing down the area would not make it a cinch to locate.
      In other words there was nothing to lose by confining the search to just 4 states.

      On the other hand maybe he planned all along to narrow down the search area at some point. Maybe he knew what additional clues he would give out over time..maybe all his “additional clue releases” were planned from the start…If I were a conspiracy theorist I would buy into that…but I’m not…I do believe that Forrest is a great planner..in spite of the fact that he claims planning is the antithesis of spontaneity and freedom..

      As far as Saskatchewan and Toledo..
      I believe those were just spontaneous, off-hand, unplanned and frivolous responses when asked for a clue. Can you imagine how many times he’s been asked for a clue???? It’s probably fun to say nothing when you say something…sometimes.

      In my opinion they were meaningless and humorous. They were not intended to be taken seriously…in spite of the fact that many folks spend days…weeks…months trying to work them into their solution.

      Sorry my answers are longer than your questions..
      If you were a teacher and handed out an essay question to me, you might regret it.

      • Dal you said “I believe those were just spontaneous, off-hand, unplanned and frivolous responses when asked for a clue. Can you imagine how many times he’s been asked for a clue???? It’s probably fun to say nothing when you say something…sometimes.”
        they were meaningless and humorous
        I so agree with you, and love the way you phrased it.
        I think ,it also can apply to the response to the reporter when FF said “if I told you that (HOB) you could walk right to it.(the chest)
        IMO it was a flippant reply to a reporter asking for a clue to the HOB. Yet a lot of people have taken that remark and ran with it.
        FF, IMO has made quite a few spontaneous, off-hand, unplanned and frivolous responses.
        Once again IMO folks should stop dissecting every word that Forrest says,there only making it harder than it already is.
        If he doesn’t seriously imply this is a hint like the (66000 chain link,hint) or the focus on a word that is key statement then it should not be considered a hint.

        Anyway ,Thanks Dal for the post ,I have tried to no avail, to say the same thing a couple of times before, but people are going to do what people are going to do.

        • If your opponent is making a mistake you do not have to correct them.

          My advise is to attempt to verify / deny before dismissing anything Forrest says.

          “Hear me all and listen good,”

          Seannm

        • Let me give you an example. If I didn’t have that map to start with and all I have is the poem which will take me to some “location” when I get to the line that says “Just heavy loads and water high” I could presume is the Rockies since that is the longest mountain chain in North America (heavy loads) and will also have the highest amount of water per elevation (water high). Now if that was the right conclusion then many people will also be looking in Canada since the Rockies extend into it but we didn’t know until the map became available. I am not saying that is the meaning of the line “heavy loads and water high” but what I am saying is that you could see it that way if you are in a plane or if you are a black-crested buzzard eagle. 😉

      • I agree that they are humorous but not meaningless. I have a connection in my solve to the Toledo comment. I got a chuckle out of the Saskatchewan clue. I see them as confirmations, meaningful to me. As always, IMO

      • Dal,
        Thank you for sharing your opinions in response to OZ10. If you wouldn’t mind sharing your thoughts in regards to the little girl in India. Is it your opinion Forrest was meaning to indicate to searchers that they would need to actually be in the search area to solve most of the clues?

        • uken-
          I have no opinion about the “little girl from India” remark…except to say that he mentioned that little girl at exactly the same time two girls from India showed up on the blog and submitted entries to the t-shirt design contest…coincidence??? Maybe he was sending them a message!!

          • Dal, I am sure you remember that the little girl from India was the lark of Jenny Kile, who inserted it into a question she asked me. It might just as well have been a boy from Waxahatchee, where my father was born, or an Arab kid from Marrakech, a city that Winston Churchill said was the most beautiful place in the world. He was an excellent artist and I once sold his oil painting of that city. We are getting a lot of mileage from that little girl from India, doncha think?

          • I dont think I knew that Winston Churchill was an artist. Now I do, thanks for that interesting bit of history.

          • The little girl from India would have to be really swift to get to the Rocky Mountains to be able to actually get the treasure, not find it by other means.

          • You’re right Fenn, lots of mileage out of the little girl from India. Almost as much as the floating hat.

            If the boy from Waxahachie can’t get any closer than the first two clues I guess that rules out any advantage the folks in Muleshoe, Circle Back, or Wink thought they had. 🙂

            Your comment should get the pot boiling.

            WAIT!!! I GET THE CLUE………IT IS THE FLOATING HAT! You spelled Waxahachie as Waxahatchee…..WaxaHATchee. Fire up the truck, I got the coordinates!

          • Eeeek!
            The blog goes silent as a thousand searchers head to the anagram machine to see what city in Colorado can be made from the letters in Marrakech and what city in New Mexico rhymes with Waxahatchee. 🙂

          • “The Boy From Waxahatchee”

            “The Arab Kid From Marrakech”

            or

            “The Little Girl From India”

            Seriously, now, which has a better ring to it? 🙂

            #TheLittleGirlFromIndiaProblem

          • Fun fact: Marrakech was the city that Belloq took the Chachapoyan Fertility Idol to after he stole it from Indy in the beginning of Raiders of the Lost Ark.

          • Hello Forrest,
            I certainly agree. It might just as well have been any of the four you mention; any one of them cannot get closer than the first two clues.

            On the subject of closer, I’ll bet you are one of the best in the business! Do you do freelance work? 🙂

            Hope you’re having a great evening!!

          • Funny how things from the Chase keep coming up. I saw this morning that we had bombed Isis heavily in the city of Sabratha! Is that wall still standing?

          • there he is Jake!
            stand back rookie, this might get ugly..

            excuse me Dal.

            FORREST FENN!!!
            (bull whip cracks!)
            uh…hunch here.

            I need my title to the gold. Now, you may be old but i heard tell you still quick with a pun. well, i’m a callin you out to slap leather!
            (crack!)

            I found the blaze
            That was quite a feet
            And a wee little birdie told me where the chest is
            And his talk aint cheep.
            (crack!)

            gimmie your best shot old man.

            Forrest Fenn: “hunch Bailey! I aint a scared a you. how dare you put words in my mouth! its best if you head south.”

            Dal: “beat it hunch….dont need your kind around here.”

            the wife: “hunch quit mccracken that whip you done give me a head ache.”

            yes dear.
            go on ahead without me Jake.

          • I will go ahead without you hunch. I may be a rookie here, but I am veteran in spirit.
            You would not need a little bird to tell you where the treasure is if you found the blaze.
            You wouldn’t know what the blaze is, even if it was burning a hole in your head. IMO

            Good luck with your self destruction.

          • hey Jake, hunch here.
            you said…”good luck on your self destruction”
            thanks Jake, once the facts of this treasure hunt are known, my hunches just may implode on themselves. thats the nature of a hunch, to either blossom as truth or wither and die as a misconception. either way its all i am for now….just a hunch.

      • Dal, by the way, thank you very much for your quick response and you can definitely make them as long as you want since your knowledge is what I was looking for. Thanks.

  7. All,
    IMO, “Put in below the home of Brown” represents precisely one point on the map, not a region; and, IMO, the GPS coordinates aren’t important.
    Geoff
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

    • Hi Yiga, I know we only talk about the chase and related stuff only here, but knowing where you are right now and seeing the news re unrest there, just hoping you and your family are safe and all….best….cq

      • Cholly,

        Thanks for the concern. Yes the elections here are nearly finished but the big thing is when the results are released. That will be the test…… For us we are fine ….been home for two days and will be home tomorrow. Have provisions for a couple weeks if need be. Results should be tomorrow. As of now around our home it has been nice and quiet. Very little traffic on the roads. Nice and quiet.

        Thanks for asking.

  8. Dal,on page 133,of the thrill of the chase book,why do you think,mr. forrest put that I call it an airplane,because it looks like one ,even tho its gold and coin and frog. over part of southern new mexico. I remember telling him once the treasure was at san larzano,he told me that san lazrano was south of santa fe.so don’t know why he’d put the gold on south of santa fe.just wondering.

    • Virginia-
      I don’t think Forrest was trying to give out any clues when that photo was taken. He was just looking for a nice arrangement that could serve as an interesting illustration on the page, and I also think he knew that folks would be looking at that map for clues anyway.

      He is in a unique position. He can hardly make a move or utter a word that isn’t analyzed by thousands of people who believe everything he says or does might be a clue…

      It must be hard being Forrest Fenn sometimes 🙂

      • I would not walk in his shoes,too heavy. but dal,you got a heavy load yourself.if i can’t ever figure this poem out to find the treasure,i really hope it is you that finds it,as you have been looking for so long,and have taken some of the prettiest pictures of places i will never get to see.you should make a book of all the places you’ve been of photos.not the poem places,but you know what I mean.good luck in your adventures.

  9. Spoon said, above … “Since Mr. Fenn told us to use Google Earth …”

    Where exactly did Forrest make that statement? Provide documentation, please. Thanks.

    • Hi, just wanted to say that GE is awesome and provides great info, but I think f said it doesn’t go low enough. That was the problem for me with Tom and his brother’s solve where they thought they saw the box under a tree in a meadow below the Gold Hill. It doesn’t go low enough means to me, one would not be able to see the box! Also the Gold Hill is a bit high for our clue below 10,200′, but I love this area and hope to get back to it.
      Now, I also have a problem with math… And so, f might have also said… paraphrased… it distracts from the poem… or Spallies suggested it, and f confirmed this above… Thus, I have given up Gps and Triangulation theories… 🙂 By and by??? What happened to f’s reply with Spoon above, it seems lost? I can’t quote what I can’t find???
      Mark H. Feel n’ the glow of the sun!

  10. TY Forrest, you have answered what I already know, but your clarification is key, I am looking forward to next chapter in our hopes, so let it begin, soon but not real soon, you may need to tighten our ropes, close to the lands of Boone.

  11. Mr. Fenn, I got a notice when I tried to access my web browser the other day about strange activity on my computer. I suspect hackers. So I’m going to stop all emails until I’m certain my computer is secure. Til the spring flowers blossom.. C.B.

  12. Regarding the map on the opposite page of the poem, and his reference to Billy the kids treasure on Gardiners Island.
    The faded map (assuming it’s an old map of New Mexico) would push you to think the treasure is in NM. The reference to Gardiners Island would push you to think Gardiner Mt.
    So I’m thinking….. could the path to the treasure cover that much distance? Start in NM and end up in Gardiner or visa versa. The preface of “To Far To Walk” may hint at that.
    Thoughts?
    PS. New to the search (since Dec 2015) so sorry if this has been beaten to death.

      • You got me think n’… my first Gardiner, was before I had bought the book and boy, I knew I was right…hehehe. Above Stag Canyon, not far. Ted Turner I think closed it down… IDK… forget? Coal mining area, a friend actually went to Dawson a town not too far away, but was chased off??? Chased off, hehehe! Heck, I think he wrote a story for this blog… He had picked up an old railroad spike from a long forgotten time in which I think curiously, he launched it into the Ocean. Huh? Never could figure that one out? Anyway Gardiner to Gardiner, Farmington to Folsom, who knows?
        What was the question? Smiles
        Mark H.

        • Good to see you here, I am still here also, I left you a story, it only seemed logical and TY

      • Yes… Capt. Kidd LOL And good point on many Gardiners… I was fixated on Gardiner MT. Thank you for the welcome.

        • Arca –

          Welcome to the chase…….. ! I think you nailed an important clue in “Kidd”…..and please know that IMO – I think this is about people……. even if you take the clue of Gardiner, it relates to a person. You will have to dig deep for that one – but it is so clear once you find it. It’s one of those elated feelings of dancing around the room. Those people relate to the solution of the entire coordinates – which take you to a shadow. Yes, I do believe that is right. The shadow is something – which is in a position to lead you on to the ground game and there are explicit directions to that ground game. Good Luck to you.

          • @inthechaseto
            Thank you for the welcome and your comments. It’s encouraging to know i’m “wandering” down a good path. I love this hunt! And what a good group of people. Except those who intentionally mislead, but there is only a few of those. Good luck to you!
            And may our heads bump as we bend over to pick up the chest.

          • Hey Arca,
            You got me think n’ bout that Gardiner thing???
            So… I went back to my first Gardiner and to where I’m working one of my current solves and lo and behold there was another Gardner. Ha, Gardiner to Gardner. 🙂 If n’ you had one more of those MAYBE I’d have the X???

            Evening Inthe, Stuck on this E thing for years! Hi E. I’m afraid if I GE and find IT… the E I mean. I might do something crazy like pack a backpack and stick out my thumb! Grins!

            inthe, Wondering If we start at 10,200′ how far do we descend? Although I think I could start at the bottom and work my way up…? I think it would easier to carry 42 lbs down hill??? Actually, in a few of my working solves… there may be only one way in IDK? 🙂
            Mark H. Smile and the whole world smiles with you, frown and frown alone!

  13. All this GPS/GE talk prompts me to remind you that FF’s intent is not for us to sit in front of our computer screens to search, but to put on some hiking boots, grab a water bottle (leaving cell phones behind) and enjoy the great outdoors.

    • Maile,
      Now that sounds like a solid plan & don’t expect to find the chest. Have those expectations low, that way you won’t be disappointed but the place where you have gone should be the centerpiece.

  14. Regarding Gardiner MT., I too had a solution that led me there. I even found a Mr. Brown who was a founder/miner where he hit it big with a gold mine strike there. My warm waters was the Yellowstone river. I thought “warm” would be the yellow color since Forrest commented on a blog one time for an artist to use warm colors such as yellows, reds, ect. I searched in circles for the other clues with no luck. I’ve been searching since March 2013. I have given up for now and watch as a bystander

  15. IMO there are absolutely no GPS coordinates in the poem. There’s a key word, a word that is key, landmark descriptors, vectors, and the like….and that is as simply put as I can make it….all is IMO by the way.

    • I agree MD,
      If you wanted to find GPS coordinates in his poem or anything written, you could find thousands if not millions depending how much you want to screw with it.
      There are no coordinates in the poem that lead you to the chest. I would be willing to say there are no coordinates in the poem that relate to any of the clues unless by coincidence.
      Forrest’s plan was to get kids off the coach & away from there video games & devices & go out into the wilderness.
      Oh & by the way kids make sure you bring your little devices out in the woods, so we know the GPS coordinates of the chest. I am pretty sure the kids will be playing games & texting.

      Just appears to be a contradiction to my opinion.

      • A gps is a good tool, and an excellent online search. But botg, another story. You could literally be off by 100 ft if your signal is guessing…? No guesswork. Need precision. 🙂

        • Jdiggins,
          My warped mind can calculate the probability of someone knowing & posting the exact GPS coordinates of the treasure down to 2 ft are approximately 00.00001%
          OK, so I exaggerate a little. My point is, you need to put BOTG where you think your coordinates are & lets face it, even military coordinates may not be able to get you that close, but I am not sure because they won’t tell us.
          For someone to post they know where the treasure is within 2′ according to there coordinates or physic or whatever is a bunch of crap IMO, considering they don’t have the chest. My opinion & I’m sure some others.

      • what if the poem gives you a distance of feet to walk? Say, from the blaze a certain amount of feet to the coordinates. Which is also in the poem. then you could walk to the coordinates. If the blaze was destroyed, you have the coordinates anyway. And, what if from the coordinates, you have to walk a certain amount of feet in a certain direction, which is also in the poem, to get to the chest? You could then be within 1′ of the chest.
        This would also confirm the “coordinates” in the poem DO NOT lead to the chest but are support for the blaze, and what you are instructed to do after.

        • IMO you are on to something there Charlie, may be a hunch, I have been up all night thinking… 😉 smiles

    • Hey Slurbs and SL, hope this post finds you both in good spirits! I checked out the Museum and I think you’ve hit it right on the head! Confirmation??? I just don’t know? But, those sure are where warm waters halt!!! Thanks for sharing!

      Hey inthechaseto, just wanted to say that I looked around in all of my piles of Chasing, and I have only three topos that I may be able to use??? I probably should have had stacks!

      Funny thing is I was drawn back to the ski valley (point A) and a bit west (point B), and a trail between them. Additionally, I connected the owners of A, B, C, D, E… private property, with trail info and stories of surrounding areas that I thought were from different sources but NO, Bam… they were the same folks??? Coincidence I’m think n’ but odd nonetheless? Sadly, it doesn’t get me any closer. Okay maybe a little. And inthe, I hear you that some of the clues may be people… I think I decided the clues could be or refer to people, places, ideas, art, archeology, Native Americans, mining, monuments, happenings, fishing, flying, flowers, animals, etc.

      And again thanks for sharing the painting friends.
      Mark H. In my mind, I’ll be back NM. 🙂

  16. SL, thanks for the advisement. I knew how to share a link, but I had a screenshot on my phone of Childhood and Spring that I wanted to share. I had found it on a page that contains other interesting things which I don’t wish yet to share. I do not know how to share such a screenshot, I wish it were black and white.

  17. Good to see you here, I am still here also, I left you a story, it only seemed logical and TY

  18. Maile wrote, above …

    “All this GPS/GE talk prompts me to remind you that FF’s intent is not for us to sit in front of our computer screens to search, but to put on some hiking boots, grab a water bottle (leaving cell phones behind) and enjoy the great outdoors.”
    ————————————————————————————————

    Ain’t it the truth; ain’t it the truth!

    How ironic … and supremely disappointing … it would be if Forrest’s stated motivation of the treasure hunt is to get kids (and adults) away from their tech gadgets and out among the wilderness and nature … and yet searchers would be required to use GPS, GE. (haha)

    I don’t think that is the case. As I have stated before, and posters conveniently ignore it … not everyone has access to the internet. What a cruel joke on some redneck in Texas who thinks he has a chance to find the chest with just a hard copy map and the poem yet he can’t afford internet access.

    Forrest Fenn is smart enough to consider EVERYONE, not just those of us who are distracted by the internet in general, GE in particular, and GPS and other annoying tech gadgets. FF said >>>> “I tried to think of everything”.

    • Honestly IMO the GPS discussion is a eddy current. It was confirmed yesterday the correct GPS coordinates would lead you to the chest. That’s as logical as being assured gravity would have an influence if you stepped off a large rock into a deep ravine. I’m not sure there are explicit GPS coordinates to be found amongst the available data. Just doesn’t seem like Mr. Fenn’s style.

    • Ken,
      I have not been in the search area to search. Your words ring true though with respect to the internet of all things. It might be wise to rely on the internet nearly as much as I have been in the past. Using it in lieu of a map, or a dictionary or encyclopedia as such, may still be a help, but not to search the out of the ordinary. imo and unless f wanted to take the internet into account. I will be giving the internet searches a bit less attention. Now if only I knew one needs to be on the ground to find a few of the clues, I would make at least one trip to the search area.

    • For about the last 25 years or so the internet is available to anyone who wants it. All Library’s have free computer’s and access,at least in the U.S.

      • You think all small towns in Texas have a library? (heeheehee) And no, the internet has not been in widespread use for 25 years.

        Given that FF’s roots are in Texas, I think he has a pretty good feel for how Texas rednecks operate, and thus wanting EVERYONE to have an equal chance, he would compose a set of clues that did not require GE in particular or the internet in general.

        • Ken,
          First I should have said IMO about the internet . IMO most people sense 2010 have some sort of access to the internet. Forrest has said all you need is the poem and GE would be helpful. GE imply’s the internet, as far as I know that’s where you get access to GE.

          You said ” Given that FF’s roots are in Texas, I think he has a pretty good feel for how Texas rednecks operate, and thus wanting EVERYONE to have an equal chance, he would compose a set of clues that did not require GE in particular or the internet in general.”

          So how do you propose that redneck get answers to the clues without GE or the internet ?

          IMO: All you need is the poem because the clues are in the poem. But you are going to need more than the poem to solve those clues.

          • Absolutely no way GE is required, this guy is old school. Forrest would never make a person use GE. Also just wanted to say he built it for families so no breaking laws or going in dangerous places. Desecration of Indian lands or digging on federal lands is out. This was built for the family, a 3 year old could nearly walk there with some help. He probably put it very close to a animal trail, camoed under bushes in a hollowed out rock. IMO PEACE OUT!!!

  19. I believe I’ve solved the nine clues including two very important verbal clues Forrest had made. I believe if it were not for just one of these verbal clues, not certain anyone would have found it for a long, long time. Everything fits perfectly and if I’m right about my solve, most if not all searchers will be scratching their heads ’til their bald as a newborn babe. Going out tomorrow to my blaze with my metal detector and an exuberant amount of confidence. Why my metal detector? Because the blaze is larger in area than one might have thought, which can in fact be clearly seen on GE. Should I have shared this post, why not? I’m darn proud of what I came up with after 4+ years of pondering this riddle.

    • Good luck Peter, please be safe. Most of the Rockies still covered in snow and ice and quite treacherous.

    • I am sure you are confident in your solve and I wish you the best, glad to hear it is a place where and 80 year old could go and stash it safely,

      I would as only one thing, as I am sure many other long time searchers want to know, if you do not find it, how did you come to that place?

      We searchers all have felt like you and many before you, so what was so convincing from ff’s verbal expression that you got and we did not?

      Tom T

      • I would really get a kick out of sharing that info. with everyone at this time but if I’m off the mark in my solve I’ll surely share it because it is a real doosey if I do say so myself. IMO this is a riddle par excellence,.. not a mathematical formula, no GPS coordinates, nothing to do with Forrest’s childhood experiences but a fabulous riddle. That’s all there is to it in my not so humble opinion for the moment. But I’ll be real humbled if I’m wrong!

        • I will however give people a clue of my own… Thinking outside of the box and out of the obvious helped me the most. Thanks to Mr. Jobs!

          • Aw what the hay. I’m feeling a bit playful which is rare for this guy after struggling with homelessness after a perfect storm of my own some years back. But very thankfully I now enjoy a home with my teenage boy. I was tenacious as heck in that quest as well to say the least. I’m so thankful I had the strength to carry on.
            So again here’s just one more clue and here’s the last… Coupled with one very important verbal clue Forrest gave as I’ve mentioned and without it the correct solve IMO might conceivably take another 100+ yrs. And, there is but one key word in the entire poem that must be correctly deciphered first which btw a school kid might very well figure out. From there the areas of search will be greatly reduced. Remembering where an 80 yr.old could go, not be dangerous and where one can safely bring the kids minus the dog among other guidelines Forrest has given. And now I do believe Forrest wanted the TC found in his lifetime.

    • Peter, best of luck to you. There is more than one key word but only one word that is key. IMO. I have to agree, a riddle indeed! If you find the chest then congratulations! If you don’t then maybe consider not spilling the beans until summer after people with their families have had time to try out their solves. Be safe 🙂

      • After giving this additional thought, I would agree with not spilling the beans if my solve is wrong. Not only for searchers and their families to try out their own clues and have the time of their lives but also for another reason, to the possible consequences it may have on the locales serenity.

        • Serenity is a good thing :). I have considered spilling my beans before but then I went through my solve again and was able to go further than before. I wish you a happy trip, Peter !

        • Peter – is your key word/words on line 10 of the poem? I found a very interesting location that fits, being “out of the box” but not too far out of the box. The surrounding area also has a number of places that seem to fit other lines in the poem.

    • The use of a metal detector on MANY federal lands in illegal. That fact alone makes me think you are off base, but I will wait for your “solution”.

        • If your solution is on Private land, including Indian Reservations, you will be trespassing unless you have permission. What does that leave … State land? State parks have too much hubbub; State Wildlife Preserves normally require permit and are open only for short periods during calendar year. Just be sure you know, not just assume, who owns or has legal authority for the land you intend to search.

      • Tickle,

        Metal detector use is allowed on Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and National Forest (public lands). People use them daily for prospecting. There are rules in regards to antiquities. A couple of examples from the BLM:

        “Gold and silver may be prospected for with hand tools including pans and metal detectors.”

        “Metal detector use is allowed on public lands. Modern money may be collected, but coins and artifacts more than 100 years old may not be collected.”

        Some areas may be off-limits (cultural, National Parks, etc.) so it’s always good to verify or you risk having your equipment confiscated and/or you may be fined.

        Forrest stated you don’t need any special tools and a metal detector will not help you unless you are right on top of the treasure (obviously) but you may find lost coins on human trails or nuggets in gold-bearing areas of the Rockies while searching for the treasure.

  20. Okay no GPS and yet, Yates throws out the GPS to Chaco, Wolf to the Barvarian, and many others to many other places. How did you all get those GPS??? From the poem or guessing? I find it interesting that we go with confidence… but how… How do we have this confidence if you’re not holding us by the hand, or GPS??? BDANG… f, this is a good one!!! No human path, not a structure or mine, and it’s wet???

    I wish someone would make a copy of this key so I can get in??? Keys in the olive jar, and the olive jars in the box??? So, Which came first the chicken or the egg???
    Mark H. I hope my health holds out til June… smiles!

  21. Thanks much for your concerns but the place of my solve is not dangerous and hasn’t seen snow for some time now. I hope my biggest concern will be lugging a 42 lb. backpack on my arthritic shoulders, bone spurs you know. For a TC, I’ll take the pain. lol

    • That is hilarious Peter. I’m in the same boat as you. Except it took me less than a year to figure out. I’m heading out next week to the Rocky Mountains. I believe i’m 100% correct. May I please ask what state you are searching in?

  22. Wow, Forrest signs on and the boards light up! Thanks for taking time to liven up the peanut gallery. I enjoyed reading up on Churchill and Roosevelt playing hookie in Merrakesh. Who did you sell his painting to? If you can tell.

  23. Slurbs, thanks for sharing the work of Danish artist Thorwaldsen. You should absolutely share the rest of that page for our enjoyment.

  24. I’ve been thinking a lot about the first stanza.

    Fenn has told us that all we need is the poem and a good map. Now suppose that is all we have. We have no book, no clues on the Today Show, no words from Fenn. How would we know where to even start looking?

    With just the poem, we should be able to deduce that the general location is in the Rocky Mountains; correct? If we only need the poem, then the poem must state where to start, and I am not referring to WWWH.

    Therefore, there must be a clue in the poem that points to the RMs. If that is true, it must also point to the correct state.

    With this assumption, I already have the answer to at least one of the clues – the Rocky Mountains. I can now reverse solve for the clue, and hopefully figure out how the rest of the clues “work”.

    First stanza:

    As I have gone alone in there
    And with my treasures bold,
    I can keep my secret where,
    And hint of riches new and old.

    Here we have “Treasures” and “Riches”.
    “New” and “Old”. What is it that can be both new and old that is located within the state?

    If I take the poem at face value, I can easily assume that the state is the Treasure state.

    “New and Old” may refer to the two parts of the Rocky Mountains. Montana contains both of these. The Ancestral Rockies and the younger Laramide Rockies.

    Then we have “alone in there”. The Laramide Rockies contain several Island Ranges. These Island Ranges appear to sit “alone” and apart from what some consider the Rocky Mountains proper. However, these ranges are indeed part of the RMs.

    So, perhaps we are looking to zero in on an Island Range contained in Montana. Since Montana is the only state to contain the Ancestral Rockies, it is the only state that fits the stanza, as solved above. Simply put, it has both “new and old”.

    I am not necessarily suggesting the chest is in Montana, but I think it is possible to narrow our “true” starting point down to a specific Island range.

    That is all I have for tonight.

    Fire away – – – – –

    Scott W.

    • Hey Scott

      Very true and it could be Montana. One of my first locations point to the Glacier National Park though I don’t know if that is in the newer or younger mountain range. There is a Mt. Brown there and very close there is a Going-to-the-Sun Mountain (Blaze?) Browning Montana is not too far either, here it’s the coordinates 48°38′18″N 113°49′04″W

      But using the logic of “new and old” you can also name NM since it was part of “old” Mexico and now is New Mexico.

      • @Oz10 et al, in the beginning when I first learned about the poem (almost 10 months ago)I thought about New and Old as you mentioned above re New Mexico and Mexico, but then my kid was doing some research and taught me a thing or two! This is from Wiki

        New Mexico, or Nuevo México in Spanish, is often incorrectly believed to have taken its name from the nation of Mexico. However, New Mexico was given its name in 1563, and again in 1581, by Spanish explorers who believed the area contained wealthy Indian cultures similar to those of the Mexica (Aztec) Empire.[8][9][10] Mexico, formerly a part of New Spain, adopted its name centuries later in 1821, after winning independence from Spanish rule. Consequently, New Mexico was only a part of the independent federal republic of Mexico for 12 years, 1836 through 1848. The two developed as neighboring Spanish-speaking communities, with relatively independent histories.

        Good thing the little girl from Thailand can read English! lol!

    • I get it down to a specific mountain peak from the first stanza using the big picture approach.

      • What exactly is the “big picture approach”. And how does it differ from any other “approach”?

      • Re: The BIg PICTURE > HUMMMM…………

        Have you really found it? It’s hidden in TTOTC. I’ll tell you where it is………. Pgs 122 and 123. Now do you see it ? It’s a BIG “E”. The picture as a whole is a map – see the river coming out of the “Hebgen Lake “E” at the bottom – almost in the middle?

        There is another map – which you would not have – if you are not a serious searcher – a topo. Huge clue in it too – imo.

      • My initial mountain peak from the first stanza is over 12,000 feet. Does that ring true for yours?

        • Mine is under 12,000 ft for sure. Just my opinion on the big picture approach. And I equate a big picture approach to following a recipe.

    • Wow Scott, That’s very interesting.
      I am thinking these are hints & not clues.
      But I don’t think I ever heard Forrest say there were hints in the poem though.
      Maybe you have discovered the first couple of clues in the poem? Although that may be too large an area for people to figure out the first couple of clues & then went by the other 7 clues?
      The good map may explain about having knowledge of Geography.
      OK, I need more time to chew on this a while.

      • Hey Jake you said “But I don’t think I ever heard Forrest say there were hints in the poem though”
        Your right Forrest did not say it,but it’s there. HINT of riches. Not a clue, a hint.

      • Jake,

        My point, by example, is that there must be a mechanism in the poem that leads us to some general area. Had the book not been published, and had Forrest not told us it was in the RMs, how on earth would we even know what country to start in?

        You wrote:
        ” Although that may be too large an area for people to figure out the first couple of clues & then went by the other 7 clues?”

        I am suggesting that the location in the 1st stanza is only the first clue. Everything combines to tell you what it is you are looking for.

        Using this line of thought (method), the entire second sentence pinpoints the range and reveals a canyon by name.

        So now I am right smack in the middle of Seeker’s age old question. What is a clue and what is a hint?

        I am starting to believe a sentence as a whole may be a clue. Of course there will be hints within the clue. I call those hints adjectives. Imagine I want you to find something hidden in a huge parking lot, and I told you to start at the “old red car”, as opposed to just “car”. Wouldn’t the entire “old red car” be the clue? Would you call “old” and “red” hints? I wouldn’t.

        Scott W.

        As always, anything that might find its way from my brain to the keyboard are just thoughts to share. Nothing above should be considered fact. <— long winded version of IMO.

        • Hey Scott,
          You said:
          Using this line of thought (method), the entire second sentence pinpoints the range and reveals a canyon by name.

          I agree with the method considering Forrest has stated all we need is the poem, but I’m not sure if it’s going to give the canyon name. I think he would be giving away TMI.
          I’m surprised you haven’t got Seekers attention by now. Must be taking a break, not quite as long as yours though.

    • Scott,
      I think your are correct. This idea has been in my head since I looked deeply into stanza 1. The riches that he hints of are places not all of them may be clues. Another thing to look at is how Forrest spoke of his treasures and riches in stanza 1, but how the sentence is structured can they really be the same thing.

  25. Peter

    Congratulations on your solve. Hope you are right.

    Went to my site for the first time Thursday. It too had no snow, except it started
    to snow just as we left. My blaze is also VERY large. If by chance we are in the same place, darn, I am a couple of days late. Bought MY metal detector yesterday. I will send it back if you post that you have found the TC. Good luck

    JD

    • JD, if you told me appx. where you lived then maybe I’d be able to deduce if were looking at the same locale. Just figuring that you made a short hop from whence you came as I sense it to be. And I would give you a carefully worded response if in fact I thought we were. But I would be astonished if we were due to my readings in general.

    • JD, in any event don’t return your metal detector on account of TTOTC. I’ve detected some great finds with mine, not $2 mil. worth but did dig up 17th-19th century artifacts in the past few years! Have quite a lot of all kinds of Spanish, Indian and Civil War relics. And I wouldn’t sell them on account of my personal attachments to them in the Thrill of those Chases as well.

  26. Never mind. Peter you say the blaze can be seen on GE. Unfortunately it can’t be. You will have to be right next to the treasure to encounter the blaze.

  27. Morning folks,
    Hey who ever posted the hanging of Capt. Fenn, cool!
    However, I have no clue as to the antique pieces… Mikes Art???

    Hi Intothechase, Please don’t stop there??? Is it your opinion several pages in the book do this? Is there another topo contained in these pages that is hidden in the same manner? Or, are there other letters that spell something? On pages 122-123 are pics IMO that have been shopped and chopped. I seriously have no clue as to why, but then again, I haven’t a clue about any of this and I’ve been here for a few… several… okay, many… yeah!!!
    Mark H. Smiling!

    • Hi Mark –

      Smiling back at ya……… you know – as well as I – there are many pages of hints in the book. I don’t think the topo is hidden in the pages of either book – I think you have to get a real topo to the exact area. I think you need hard copy – ( there is nothing as good as holding a map in your hand), kind of like reading a hard copy book – just feels good. I have not found this hint on line. Hope that helps – although I doubt you need it. 🙂

      • Hi in, You know every little bit of info helps, and I trust your thinking! I had never looked for or saw the E, or the Creek coming out Hebgen at the bottom of the page. In fact, I’ve read the book several times, but think/thought it somehow distracts from the poem…
        In the beginning, I think f said the book was important because it included the poem… IDK.

        So for some of the new folks…
        From the poem wwwh or the …Brown, and gut, I chose NM.
        From heavy loads and water high or riches new and old, I too believe as f has told us… the Mountains (They are all rocky).
        I believe f when he tells us 8.25 miles north of SF.
        One better dang well learn their geology/geography.
        There is no paddle up a trail, or shallow creek.
        meek must be a clue or f would have used sissy pants… okay I made that one up!
        And I guess I could go on, but I am a poem enthusiast. But with that said, f has said things verbally and in the SB s that could be small hints???
        I would stick to the poem, a good as in detailed map, and this blog where ideas come together!
        Mark H. Still in the race!

        • fenntreasure etc-
          Forrest never said it was 8.2 miles north of Santa Fe. He has said it is AT LEAST 8.2 miles north of Santa Fe…

        • Hi Mark,

          Just wait until you see the “real” E………it will blow you away. It’s quite visible from GE …….but not the “X”………the X must be found on the ground. This is just my opinion – as I do not have the chest – yet – 🙂

          • I’ve been looking for that E….. Since I got the book (Dec2015), I’m being open minded but my assumption is that it is a creek, river, trail, ski trail, road….
            I’ll re-post my question about GE. GE doesn’t provide an overlay of rivers, so it’s very hard to see a rivers course. (so maybe it’s not a river or creek?) Can someone post a place to find a good GE river overlay. The USGS water overlay isn’t working for me… but the contour overlay is very good.
            Have a great day everyone, and stay safe.

          • Not sure, I get your whole “E” theory, but that’s not what I’m actually responding to. What I’m wondering is, do you suppose Randy was also onto some interpretation of “E” and that’s why he had one circled on his map? Whatever you think “E” means, do you think it would give any insight to finding Randy?

          • Hey Into –
            I recently posted the following question but forgot to address it to you, specifically, so mebbe you didn’t pick up on it. Here it is:

            “Not sure, I get your whole “E” theory, but that’s not what I’m actually responding to. What I’m wondering is, do you suppose Randy was also onto some interpretation of “E” and that’s why he had one circled on his map? Whatever you think “E” means, do you think it would give any insight to finding Randy?”

            Would’ve let it drop, but it’s been nagging at me since. And since then, a recent poster (Melissa) over on the “Report From Friday by Cynthia” thread has asked about any recent developments in the search for Randy. So, I just thought it timely to re-ask…..could your “E” thing possibly pertain to Randy’s solve and help locate him ?

            BTW, not trying to get you to divulge your solve ‘-)

  28. When FB FENN speaks… everyone listens. However, I think everyone hears something different. I am diligently attempting to block out all of the after comments and staying with just TTOTC/Poem to shore up my ideas as to where the Treasure is secreted. Spring is on the way, right over the horizon, good luck to all and stay safe out there(or “in there”) !

    • “I am diligently attempting to block out all of [FF’s] after comments …”
      ————————————————————————————
      You are wise. Some of those after comments seem contradictory, and therefore help not at all.

      From one Ken to another Ken. 🙂

  29. Terrance

    You state, “Unfortunately it can’t be. You will have to be right next to the treasure to encounter the blaze.”

    The above is YOUR opinion, NOT fact. We are each entitled to our opinions, and those opinions should be expressed as such. I am sure that you would not want to mislead a new searcher, if in fact YOU are wrong.

    This of course is just my opinion.

    Good luck on your search

    JD

    • JD

      I could type something that would cause this blogs server to crash today. I know everyone wants to right, but if it were easy anyone could do it. I’m going to the spot next week. Good luck on your search as well.

      • Hey Terrance, oh never mind… Have fun next week at your spot. Maybe it will turn out to be THE Spot. Good luck and be safe.

          • WEATHER REMINDER: All be safe out in the Rocky’s. Remember also Yellowstone’s Roads open completely May 27th 2016; if your solution is within the Park. BE PREPARED TO STAY OVERNIGHT just in case somthing/anything comes up . I have been unprepared in the past and thank God I didn’t come to any harm. Good luck fellow searchers:)

  30. Terrance,
    IMO a smaller blaze would be quite logical if one were to interpret the following on its face value, “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, look quickly down….,” However, in my interpretation of the poem, face value is not the case in any of the clues albeit for WWWH. The other clues are fraught with deeper meanings far from the obvious. That being the case in my solve and I do indeed see the poem as a fantastically brilliant riddle, one might interpret “I can keep my secrets where …,” as having a deeper meaning as well. And so my larger blaze would not only be reasonable given “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,” but to “look quickly down,” would also be a likely part of ones solve if one believed there was a specific part of the blaze to be sought ie; the foot of.., the mouth of…, the eye of…, or perhaps the back of the blaze etc., etc. So with that being the case of my interpretation or meanings of my solve to a riddle as I see it, I think given the vast amount of varied interpretations of ALL searchers solves should be respected and not frowned upon. And since I haven’t had the thrill of carrying that 42 lb. TC on my back as of yet, who am I to say “it can’t be” so? So that being said, even though you’re dead wrong Terrance, the best of luck on your solve too!! LOL!!!

    • I know exactly what you’re talking about. Actually we are on the same page, but if you knew where it was exactly you would have it by now.

      • You’re right that I would but given my physical limitations I’m a bit wary of going it alone with arthritic bones and COPD so I’m waiting for my teenage son to assist me on this. And you know how BUSY teenagers can be. Between his girlfriend, his holy skateboard and studies at school, its been real hard to pin him down and get some Father/Son time together!

    • Peter,

      Let’s talk about interpretation. The Blaze. IMO, there is no thing that is the blaze.

      I’ll give an example of a solve for “if you’ve been wise and found the blaze …” which has nothing to do with a thing you might identify by sight.

      Here we go – remember, this is just an example of a concept, so don’t laugh. Ask yourself these questions:

      Why would you look QUICKLY down? There is a situation of urgency.
      What is the reason for the urgency? You found a blaze.
      What do you see when you look down? Anywhere? Your feet.
      What would cause your quest to cease? Perhaps a “Hot Foot”. (hope you know what that is).

      Believe it or not, there is a Hotfoot Creek in Lincoln County, Wyoming. Is it possible that Hotfoot Creek could be a clue along the way?

      So why can’t this stanza simply be giving us another clue to take us along the journey? It would then make sense why there are still two more stanzas containing four more sentences (clues) beyond the blaze.

      Scott W.

      • Absolutely your interpretations of the poem may be dead on. And the blaze as you see it at Hot Foot Creek may be “the Blaze” in FF’s poem. But my thought being,.. unless one has the conviction of thinking that they’ve solved at least the first three clues, then one can find hundreds of blazes throughout the Rocky Mtns. IMO yes the first 3 clues are the most important followed by the rest and as I’ve mentioned verbal clues as well. Speaking of which, one verbal clue in particular is critical to ones understanding of the solve or else nobody would have figured out the solve in Forrest’s lifetime. And I do believe that Forrest realized that after he published the poem or else why IMO would he ever have stated it at all? And no I’m not going to divulge this quote of which I speak and what my interpretation of it is because if I did I think many of you would halt what you’re doing and understand why out of thousands of searches thus far, no one, nobody has even been warm to the final clue which is the blaze, cold and wet most definitely, again in my opinion. But this again is my solve, not yours or most other searchers as I see it. I can definitely be wrong in my interpretations no doubt about it.

        • Peter,

          Good conversation.

          So the “Hotfoot” blaze I mentioned was actually not one that I just made up. It is from an old solve that I partially published here a year or so ago.

          You mentioned that I would have to have the first two clues to back it up. I actually had much more than a few; I had, what I thought was all of them.

          In that ancient solve, my WWH was the Salt River Range. Why? Because to me, if I listen good, WWH sounds a lot like Warm Water Salt. Turn that around and you can get, with a little imagination, Salt River Range. The assumption is you would warm salt water on a range (stove).

          Anyhow, the range is bounded on the west and east sides by the Salt and Greys River, respectively. Hotfoot Creek runs into the Greys. At this point in my solve I was super excited. It was confirmation that I was on the right track, and also confirmation that there must be more clues in the last two stanzas.

          And then there is Rock Lake Peak for Heavy loads and waters high, Indian Grave flats for brave and in the wood, or maybe that is Stump Lake for a combination of “.. in the wood … and … worth the cold”. Stump Lake, by the way, is a short hike from the parking area at Hotfoot Creek.

          All of the poem can be mapped to the Salt River Range area with unbelievable coincidence. Yes, I said “coincidence”.

          I tried and tried, but could not find it. However, you must admit, Hotfoot Creek was a pretty convincing “blaze” under the circumstances, as it was just sitting there to be found after I found the previous clues.

          Maybe this post will nudge someone else to pick that area over a little closer.

          By the way – If you are an angler, This is the only place where you have an opportunity/chance to complete the Wyoming Cutt-Slam Challenge in a single day. I would call this a VERY special place to those who might consider themselves avid anglers.

          Scott W.

          All of the above was once a very strong opinion of mine. Now it just sits in the past-solves folder waiting to be revived; by me or now someone else.

          • I must commend you, that was a terrific solve q1werty2! By the sound of it, yes it does seem like the 9 clues would fit perfectly. I’d like to give you my thoughts on YOUR SOLVE but am not at liberty to do so given our audience out there. But if you will give me your email I’d be happy to do so?.. I think you may find some added objectivity or thinking on the matter useful, let me know.

          • Hey Scott, Wyoming is always a great place to build a solution… It’s beauty along the RM divide doesn’t disappoint. when I fail in finding the tc, I still have great memories of exploring beautiful country. would enjoy reading your hot foot solution but couldn’t find it in the archives or search engine here. Any ideas where to locate?

          • q1werty2,
            ” WWH sounds a lot like Warm Water Salt. Turn that around and you can get, with a little imagination, Salt River Range. The assumption is you would warm salt water on a range (stove).”
            Another way to have gotten Salt River Range without heating of the saltwater on a range would be warm=range, water=river, salt=salt. Turn it around Salt River Range.

          • uken2it,

            Go back about a zillion Q1werty2 posts, and you will see that is exactly what I did. I just didn’t feel like filling in all the details since the folks here a plenty smart enough to figure it out.

            But you are absolutely correct. I made each and everyone of the associations you mentioned.

            If you liked that “listen Good” association, go back and look what I did for Wimpys Knob. It’s part of a long drawn-out essay that even mentions how I came up with hoB (well, that particular one anyway).

            Say it out loud. “Go in Peace”, “Go in Peace”, “Go in Peace”.
            Then say “Go Wimpys”. Then go look on page 4ish of TTOTC. He loved Wimpys hamburgers. 🙂

            The Salt River Range was in that solve as well.

            Scott W.

          • Thanks for describing parts of your back burner solution, q1werty2. I might could get somewhat interested in it except for the “very special place” criterion.

            There are billions of good places to fish in the Rockies, and do you really think the “Wyoming Cutt-Slam Challenge” will still be around 500 years from now?

            Can you think of any other reason this area might be “special”, apart from … fish?

          • Ken,

            The fact about the fishing place is not part of the criteria. It was just added in as a neat fact about the area on the south side of the range. The tri-basin divide there leads you to the different types of trout necessary to complete the Cutt-Slam challenge. The tie in to Fenn was simply because he was an avid angler.

            Sorry to have confused you by mentioning it. From now on I will try to keep interesting trivia off the blog.

            Thanks for pointing it out to me.

            Scott W

        • hello Peter.I am from Thunder Bay Ontario. I have a solve that is different and by the way you talk, it sounds similar to my way of thinking. I will be down in June.Can I ask what State you are looking??We can get together on the info to share if we are in the same area. Let me know,JD

          • James, Sorry to say I can’t give it up at this time for good reasons but my best advice to you would be to develop your solve to the point of feeling a eureka, then proceed from there. But will say IMO, the poem can definitely be solved from a comfortable armchair next to your computer and a printout of the poem tacked to the wall. And begin by thinking outside of the box. Good luck with your chase!

  31. From Weekly Words from FF
    *Your destination is small, but its location is huge (Posted Feb. 19th, 2016).

    I think most people would consider “Yellowstone NP” as a huge place that FF could have “gone in alone”, I sure do. IMO

    • *Your destination is small, but its location is huge (Posted Feb. 19th, 2016).
      If I were in I Indi…. Nah let’s pick Europe, the destination in US is small but the location, the USA is huge.

    • It may not be an f perspective so much as the poem perspective. Although f built the poem into 24 lines, 6 stanzas and 9 sentences the perspectives are limitless. So determining his perspective is futile IMO. The perspective I mentioned is from afar. Example: YNP is small but the USA Is huge.
      Not much of an answer q1werty2, but off the top of my head (which isn’t much)

    • What a great tidbit of information. Thanks for posting it so we can be in the loop. Good luck all. Leaves me feeling positive.

  32. Jake, Poetreasurefish, Dal

    Thanks for raising awareness about Smith River Canyon, Montana….truely a genuine Rocky Mountain treasure. I’ve not had the privilege of floating the full 50 miles but as a native Montanan support fully the effort to prohibit mining on the Smith.

    Mining permanently scars the landscape and pollutes the aquifers. Damage to fish, wildlife and people is an irreversible process. Please sign the petition. Please write to Montana’s Governor. SAVE THE SMITH RIVER

    http://www.saveoursmith.com

    • Happy to sign and support. This is quite similar to the battle we had with Noranda and their mine plan at the very edge of Yellowstone Nat’l Park where the headwaters of the Wild & Scenic Clark’s Fork of the Yellowstone begin.

    • 42,

      While I understand your concern, you would not even be able to write what you did on this blog without mining. Everything we have was either mined or grown.

      New reclamation rules, bonding, and oversight often leaves areas better than they were previously–introducing new water features that attract wildlife.

      We should all fight to retain pristine areas and restrict mining where there is too much risk–especially when operated by foreign corporations. Avoiding absolute and hypocritical statements will gain you even more support in my opinion.

      • Sourdough,
        I’m in agreement with your thoughts. We need metals, vital minerals from the earth; mining yields them. Everyone who searches for Forrest’s gold realizes it was likely mined from the earth. I’d be surprised if golden egg sized nuggets were surface finds.

        As a Montanan, I’m keenly aware that copper, gold, timber, coal, petroleum, and uranium all fuel jobs and industries. We need medical uranium to treat cancer and timber to build homes. Unfortunately, safeguarding the land is seldomly the focus of large corporations who benefit the most. I doubt Queen Elizabeth really needs to invest $17trillion in uranium rights. http://www.nationofchange.org/queen-england-deals-extensively-depleted-uranium-trade-1393604116. I’m a cancer survivor – my surgeon asked if I had lived near Chernoble or in the Rocky Mountains (because either nuclear fallout, or uranium exposure had caused my cancer). Investment greed, nuclear arms races, cheaper petroleum extraction allow large corporations to pollute and scar what’s left of open lands. Timber is one exception, and a great example of how reclamation through reseeding the land can work.

        I’m saddened by the deep scars past mining operations left upon Montana’s flesh without reclamation or restoration. Look at the mess gold dredges left in Virginia city, the mile-deep, putrid chemical pit in Butte, coal strip in eastern Montana, uranium mines near Helena and YNP, Petroleum leaks into the Yellowstone River because pipelines run beneath it. Then treat yourself to the mountains of slag in Globe & Miami Arizona.

        I typically don’t approve of big government, other than when it comes to protecting the land – America’s natural treasure.

        • I agree 42,
          I wish many of us did & we could speak louder for the lands that mean so much for us few in the natural way instead of putting a dollar value on our environment at the expense of us.

        • 42,

          We’re on the same page. For the past nine years, I’ve researched mining history and agree more reclamation needs to happen; just not as clumsily as the recent EPA example at the Colorado Gold King mine.

          I support your education efforts regarding Smith River because individually, we all must take responsibility and often, it’s simply not worth the risk. Intellectual honesty ensures your audience listens and they don’t judge you as simply another “tree hugger.” Appreciate your previous response.

          Back to the chase.

  33. imo- if you’ve been wise and found the place – look quickly down your quest to cease- just take the chest and go in peace

  34. I didn’t realize George R. R. Martin lived in Santa Fe too. No wonder he never gets his books finished. Too many distractions 🙂 Anyone who lives there ever run into him on the streets?

    • Anna,

      After the SB about the baseball players, I had to go back and revisit the ole hot-foot solve.

      I’ve gotten to where I hate scrapbooks. I always read something into them. Kind of like the one with Leroy and Skippy, where Leroy was hospitalized in the fireworks incident. Somehow I ended up with an association with Bad Bad Leroy Brown, from the south side of Chicago; the meanest part of town.

      Well, I was then all over the 42nd parralell thinking perhaps that was the home of Brown. After all, the 42nd runs right smack through Chicago. Toledo too – well almost if you count 41.66 close enough to 42.

      Anyway, glad you liked the hot-foot blaze. It’s amazing where one’s mind will go.

      Scott W.

      • Hi there, would you mind hinting at which scrapbook this one is. At work and not enough free time to look through them all.
        Thanks,
        Friend

      • Hi Scott, Friend and I would love to know which Scrap book your hot foot solve is. I looked through all arm chair and searcher solves but could not locate it. Sounds like a hoot.

        • Anna,

          I don’t think Hotfoot was in a SB. I did mention that Leroy was though.

          The story of Leroy and the fireworks was in SB 125.
          https://dalneitzel.com/2015/01/17/scrapbook-one-hundred-twenty-five/

          If you are referring to the baseball SB, I simply made an after-the-fact mental note and loosely associated it with the “hot-foot” I had already found. This association was only because players have seemed to play this joke on others for as long as I can remember. Had I not found Hotfoot Creek, the SB would have made no sense to me, and I really don’t link the two together.

          Sorry for the confusion.

          Scott W.

  35. Hi Guys,

    I just wanted to share two movie lines from the Nickolas Cage movies “National Treasure” and “National Treasure Two”

    Since joining the chase these words have brought me even greater entertainment.

    First movie – “Why can’t they just tell you where the treasure is and to spend it wisely?”
    I think we know why,,, right? Where the fun in that?

    Second movie – Cage says “Someone else is after the treasure” Riley’s reply “Of course someone else is after the treasure. That’s the, …axiom of treasure hunting”

    As for our chase-
    Many times I feel that I do all the book work, alone.

    Why is it that when it comes to the poem work in our team, I feel alone? This is supposed to be a family thing right. Why am I alone? In spouting this I mean my team not you guys. You guys are great.

    But really, you guys experience that???? Many volunteers for the .. “boot work but na for book work!!!”

    Anyways thanks for allowing my tirade. I feel better now. I need to watch my movies again!

    Here is a question that I don’t have an answer to-

    Why is there an “S” in “answers” in the TTOTC poem, but not in the TFTW poem? You guys may not agree on the reasons but I am curious to your thoughts.

    Yiga

    • Fenn responded directly to a searchers question and said the “s” missing or otherwise was a typo and made no difference.

      There were comments on it for a while before he said anything.

      • Thanks PL, Might you remember where the question was asked? Here or over on Jenny’s blog, or elsewhere? Just thinking of the context. Otherwise, no meaning? OK fine by me.

        • Yiga –

          Yes, he said the answer or answers was a mistake. I don’t believe that for one minute ! I think it has to do with a person (yes, again a person). I think that person changed their name along the way and dropped the letter “S” from their name. I do not think it is important that one finds this info.

          Do you really think Forrest or an Editor would make a mistake in the poem? No Way !

          • Question:
            Mr. Fenn,
            After locating the Blaze in the poem by solving the clues, and having been led to the chest, I was disheartened to learn that there are two different versions of the poem. The version found on The Thrill of the Chase Resource page online shows:

            The answer I already know

            While the version published in your memoir reads:

            The answers I already know

            Based on the way the clues are solved to this point, it is obvious that every word and every letter are crucial. I was hoping you would be able to clarify which version of the poem is correct. Should the word answer have an S on the end to make it plural? Pehaps this one letter has no bearing on the final solution, but it is something that continually weighs on my mind.

            Hope all is well!
            Archie

            Fenn’s answer:
            Archie,
            It makes no difference, one of them is only an innocent typo. You can pick which one. f

            https://dalneitzel.com/2013/06/19/forrest-gets-mail-4/

      • PL289, oh, that’s right! Now I remember.
        Yiga, I’d go with what PL289 just said. Anyway, f should be allowed to be told he is right at least some of the time… Some times? or some of the time? Dang it! That a sure can make life difficult,

    • Yiga, I believe that it may be an editor’s error or f did it to show that in matters of TTOTC treasure hunt, the s in question is insignificant. For instance, if I want to say that I am craving the flavor of my favorite vegetable, would it make any difference if I say, “I crave pea” or “I crave peas?” So, I ask, does the a matter in the poems case? Maybe he wants you to realize that as an individual on the search, and in life, you are going to have to make a choice… Right, wrong, or indifferent. Either way, it is yours to make. Choose what is best for your particular path. Then again, maybe it’s not that deep and he just wants to leave you a bit perplexed. Maybe it’s f being shady. Let the wind be your guide.

      • I posted a possible reason for this a while back. Look at the first Superman Comic book.
        It has Superman throwing a car on the cover. That car is an old Plymouth.
        It also has a chapter in the book called “Odds & Ends”
        The Comic is called “AC 1” (Action Comics 1). AC = Cold, etc..
        Also the letter “S” is associated with a chest. Superman’s Chest.
        In real life the comic book was stolen from Nicolas Cage. (National Treasure)
        Christopher Reeves played Superman, rode horses, and broke his spine.
        In almost every photograph of Fenn, there are pictures of books on shelves, and they only present the “spine” of the book.
        Everything is ammo: or a hint.

        All of this was linked by using a contradiction within the chase. IMO, the “S” is a hint and it will tell you how to do things. Along with everything else in the poem. Use all of it to get the answer. Do be scared to be wrong, and definitely dont be scared to ask a question. I think that is fair.

        Of course none of this gives you a location to anything, but that is not the point yet. You are looking for a way to find a location, and this type of separation is a great way to start.

      • Two questions, two answers…..’why is it and leave my trove…’ doesn’t matter to me, IMO the TC is found before this stanza….

    • Yiga, I can let you wear my National Treasure spectacles for awhile and sign an autograph to help you feel better.

        • For sure…they definitely allow the wearer to magically focus on the right path if the colors are adjusted just right!!! I’ll make sure to bring them to Fennboree so others can try.

          • Hmmm sounds interesting, I do like how in the movie there was hidden stuff under the colored glasses. Wish I could make the party try them out. I would, hate to niss it, but coming from Africa it is a long way and I am saving my plane ride for a search ..When is fennboree?

            Yiga

          • Hey Fun,
            I’d like to be at the f thing, but now days I’m winded putting on my socks. 6 month Petscan Friday… Arggh! I’m keep n’ the faith!
            Hey Fun, do you think… “To think outside the box, is to not go in the box?”
            Mark H. Chill n’ with the Chase!!!

          • Hello Everybody,
            Okay, Yates location for that GPS sometime back, and Veteran’s Memorial, had me thinking. Maybe you have to know how one works to figure out the other… Okay back to the drawing board!

            Went for the 6 month PetScan Friday. And then, the Dr called today on a Saturday… (a Doctor who works Saturdays, have you ever heard of such a thing??? He loves me…) Anyways, he said it didn’t look so good, and that I should come see him Monday for the next plan of attack! Jeez!

            Mark H. Noth n’ left to do but smile!

          • Hello fenntreasuremarksblogsite. Keep your head up and continue to smile. You’re in my thoughts and prayers. Stay strong. 🙂

  36. I recently had an uncle pass away. He was a great man, a skilled carpenter and repairman and his weekly emails would keep me abreast of what project he was working on or where the catfish were best on ‘his’ stretch of the mighty Mississippi. The one thing that stood out to me when going through the belongings of an 88-year-old was the sheer volume of maps. Trail maps from all over this great country in his study with references of when to go so that the weather is suitable, maps of fishing spots so secret that he would erase or black out the name so that only he knew, and of course his Rand McNally Road Atlas collection that he kept in his Jeep, “Always get a new one every five years, just in case they change a route that I know can get me there faster”.

    Interpret the books and poem as you would any stories told to you by an elder that has so much more wisdom and real life experience than you or I have. If you have the chance to visit your local VFW Post or have a chat with an Octogenarian, I encourage you to do so as soon as possible for it is only with an understanding of how the mind of an elder thinks that you can see things through their eyes.

  37. hi Peter,
    You seem to have great insight, but it is not clear to me at all that Mr. Fenn desires to have the TC found during his lifetime or ever for that matter. All the vibes I have been getting suggest otherwise. Sure, I have heard him state that he does not care one way or another but when asked specifically …do you want the TC to be found during your lifetime? A simple, I do, seems like it would suffice for an answer if it were his desire and that answer would be more in line with Mr. Fenn’s typical brevity. But when interviewed, Mr. Fenn states that it does not matter to him one way or another. That answer is as noncommittal as deciding which sort of socks to wear in the morning. Important to a women, but not so much to a man. This is something I have stumbled over time and again and your comment about a verbal clue giving credence to his desire for the treasure to be found is intriguing to me. Makes me want to pull my hair out particularly since my memory is not very good these days. I just cannot remember all his verbal comments and since I never write anything down, I guess I remain puzzled by it all.

  38. Long time creeper on this page, first time posting……
    I’m just glad to see the treasure hasn’t been found and the hunt continues!! I was in NW Wyoming in the ShoShone Forest Wood River area a couple of weeks ago and was impressed how little snow there was. Don’t get me wrong, as I headed further towards Kirwin on Wood River road, the snow load was pretty bad. I got a little stuck(under 30min) in the snow but my Jeep kicked some tail that day! I wasn’t looking for a fight but am glad the Jeep was there to have my back. Some backstory….
    I’m a disabled Marine Corps vet who served in Iraq in 2004 as a S.A.W.machine gunner. I left the Marine Corps to do what I intended The day I joined the Corps, go to college using the GI Bill. I became an air traffic controller with the FAA but my health forced me to retire at the age of 32. I was angry because I was working at “Regional Approach” in the Dallas area. For you pilots, you know that’s a busy place. I was super depressed after being forced to retire medically because I was an important public servant that helped people and now I’m scheduling surgeries because I can’t help myself. I loved the responsibility in both my previous careers and loved knowing I helped get someone home. I’m very serious in my work as a Marine(once a Marine, always a Marine) and was very serious in Air Traffic. I now am now a professional explorer of the wilderness, win win for me because 1. I get to travel somewhere other than a war zone and 2. I don’t have to be around a lot of people(I have PTSD). This year is the first year of my new chapter. A big part of this new chapter are the books by Mr. Fenn and creating search parameters for the treasure. I went to WY a couple weeks ago by myself and my service dog to put boots on the ground and make some understanding of what my maps were telling me. Dick Creek Rd was closed which I wanted to check out, but oh well. I will be back to NW WY this summer with the family and in Montana as well. Mainly in Montana. This coming spring break, me, my wife and kids, and dog have rented a motorhome and are headed to New Mexico. I don’t know where exactly we will search in NM but there are some good ideas on this web page. FYI, I give my word, if I find the treasure with “your” solution, you will get your “share”. This hunt fills a void for adventure. Long after this hunt, I will still be “In the woods”! I love nature and look forward to meeting you all on the trails! I’m not big on social media but my wife created an Instagram for my service dog and that has our pics from WY. CrimsonsChronicles is the Instagram with pics. We have also just gotten back from AR where we hunted for diamonds! This year is going to be exciting thanks to the books by Mr. Fenn.

    P.S. Don’t for one second think I’m not eternally grateful for being “retired”. I’m one hell of a lucky guy bc I shouldn’t be here. I’m on borrowed time and enjoying every breath! May my life honor my brothers who didn’t come home.

    • Andrew,
      I have read you comment & was moved by it.
      I think your mind is in a better place in this environment especially in the mountains. Seeing what you have seen & being in the middle of hell & be able to come back & have some marbles rolling around in your head is a testament to your strength. I wish you good luck & peace in your mind. I have never been unfortunate to see & experience the hell, you & your comrades have been through. Now you have new adventures that will hopefully ease the adventures of your past.

    • P.P.S.- Ive only been reading on this for a month or so but will let you know if anything of interest turns up on aeronautical charts in “my” areas in WY and MT. Has anyone else looked on skyvector.com or other flight planning charts? These charts show a little different perspective but still basically a topography map. I’m interested in the gps coordinates but just don’t have any of my own, lol. Also, just so everyone knows, “my” areas are sometimes…. Well…. mostly “your” areas I’m looking at. I’ve learned to embrace my limitations and now try to surround myself with professional types when I’m the novice. Treasure hunting is not my forte but adventure is!

      • Welcome Andrew. I have flight vector maps overplayed on my Gaia App. I have IFR high and low and VFR. The website you shared https://skyvector.com , is impressive and easier to navigate thanks for sharing.

        And once again welcome aboard the blog.

      • Thanks for you service Andrew. May God Bless you with peace and healing. As far a being a novice here, you have as good of a chance as any of us. Most of us here have “solved” the poem only to find out that our solve wasn’t the same as FF’s. Read everything with a grain of salt, and most of all stay safe in you searches. Good Luck and God Bless

      • If you are interested in aviation-related clues, there are a number of giant concrete arrows on the ground that established the mail route through the mountains for the early days of flying. Many in Montana. Been a while since I looked at that as possible blazes, so don’t have links handy. Maybe someone here can dig those out and post them.

      • Good luck and have fun Andrew. Begin WWWH and you’ll be on your way! There’s only one correct solve and anyone could have it.

          • My understanding is that it is the first clue. Having spent a ridiculous amount of hours doing research on this project, (and a little a luck helped) IMO there is only one place WWWH that will lead you to the chest, but you have know HOB too and that was tricky. It all works together and it all leads somewhere. You also need to consider all the other known facts. Every piece of the puzzle has to fit. IMO the treasure is pretty much hidden in bfe, for lack of a better term. Not a place you will find a million people visiting like Yellowstone. The finder will go straight to it as Forrest has said. Good luck!

          • Hello Kedar’s Mom. Thank you for your reply. I greatly appreciate it. Gosh, I have to agree with you in the many hours of studying. I’ve had three solutions I’ve worked with and one I feel is saying “It’s here!” I’m happy you feel you’ve been able to put the pieces together and I wish you the best of luck. While getting there, be sure to look around and enjoy the beauty that’s around you. 🙂

          • Gosh Andrew, I think you’re going to have a lot of fun deciphering the poem. Do the clues begin in the first stanza or at WWWH? What do each clue mean? I wish you the best of luck on your amazing journey.

    • Good luck with your searches. I worked on the Kirwin area for awhile but couldn’t get it to come together for me. I like that country and think I will go do more fishing over that way. My son and I have also looked for the diamonds in Arkansas, had a great time but didn’t find any diamonds. We have diamond here in WY if you know where to look, lots of other gem stones also.
      jl

  39. Google Earth Question;
    Where can i find a good river overlay?
    The USGS Hydrography Overlay doesn’t work for me.
    Without rivers, GMaps seems to be a better resource than GE.

  40. New post on MW regarding a question to ff from a new searcher and the blogs, ‘contradictory information’ is their concern…..IMO not on this blog! Check it out no need to reiterate, just read the poem!

  41. imo – this is how I see in my little mind what is happening – from home of brown – forrest is sending us to heavy loads and waters high imo if you’ve been wise and found the place look quickly down your quest to cease just take the chest and go in peace just a thought

  42. First ,I have a solve .A complete solve that takes me to a very specific place. I have been working on my solve about a year and a half, and took many wrong turns along the way. Because I stay home ,with kid’s and Dad, I probably have had a lot more hour’s to put into the hunt than some others or it would have taken a lot longer,for my final solve.

    The poem for me is one very big puzzle,and when a piece did not fit ,I had to step back ,and try a different approach.
    I cant get to my spot until June,not because of the weather, but for various personal reasons. Kid’s in school,My brother cant stay with dad till June,thing’s like that.

    I know 100% there are a few others on the same path as I, because of there post’s Most are not ,but a few are, maybe half a dozen or so.(just guessing from what I have read)
    I can only hope there stumbling down the many wrong turns along the way,or reached a stopping point, and don’t know which way to go from there .

    There are many stopping point’s, in which your not sure what way to go next. It was not easy. It took over a year.
    However , I never ventured from my starting point once I found it, that always stayed the same.
    Now just like everyone else ,there’s no way to know if I am right until, there’s a chest or not. If I am wrong, just like Forrest said, it starts with where my warm waters halt. Everything after that is useless, unless I have that correct.

    I can tell you all that my path took me in and out of the highlighted areas of the map,and that the first stanza got me to where my warm waters halt. I can also say that one thing led to another ,then another and another. There were and are connections that made it all eventually come together.

    A true Treasure map, written in the form of a poem, I can see how it would take Forrest years to put it all together.

    So if anyone want’s to try and start the path I took, quit worrying about the highlighted areas on the map,and the 9 clues . Don’t let the map distract you from the poem . Let the poem lead you, even if logic say’s it’s wrong, keep looking and you might just discover it’s right.
    The 9 clues will all come together later, you will have a ah-ha moment, when you understand just like I did.
    Don’t move past the first stanza until you know WWWH and you WILL KNOW,without any doubt.
    As someone else said on here one time, he danced around the room when he found it,I knew what he had found, when he stated that. I didn’t dance ,but I knew it was right, or at least a very good path to start on, and if you find it you will to.

    Forrest said (paraphrasing) If you don’t get the first clue right ,all you have is a nice vacation. Think about why he said that. IMO he is telling us ,you will know when you get it right,(the first clue). There is a reason that you will know.

    It’s also entirely possible as others have been, that I am partly right and partly wrong ,as in the total solve .
    If I am only 1/2 right, or 100% right on my solve, and I followed the path Forrest intended, then he is a true genius ,I could have never mapped it out ,in a poem form like he has.

    BTW I have made two trips 2200 miles ,the first I think I was way off base. That was about 2 months in.

    The second, six month’s in, I was only at the beginning , somewhere around clue 3 but of course, I did not know that at the time.
    There are many points along the way ,that can totally lead a person to think this is the place for BOTG .
    Given the funds I could have went quite a few times thinking ,I was at the end. Then I realized just like my clue 3 that , wait maybe there’s more.
    If I lived in the Rocky’s , I would have had BOTG a lot more than twice ,and would have been wrong on all count’s . Not wrong on the path , just wrong thinking I was at the end.

    OK I have said enough and I hope this helps some of you. If it does great if not that’s ok also. I cant really say I am right or wrong, I only know I let the poem lead me, and I did not force fit anything.

    Good luck all, stay safe.

    • Lisa, sounds like you are really on to something. Just wondering if what you now know and feel does the idea that all of us could solve the first two clues from home hold true? Anything else from ff that helped with your solve and that you can share? Scrapbooks? Vignettes? This blog? The books? Hints? Is the poem straight forward in your solve? Understood if you can’t say anything else, thanks! -chollyq

      • Cholly, I’ll Try and answer.
        In hind-site with my complete solve ,It all could have been solved at home. But like I said, If I lived in the Rocky’s , I would have had BOTG a lot more than twice ,and would have been wrong on all count’s . Not wrong on the path , just wrong thinking I was at the end.

        So yes it will get BOTG if a person has taken the same path as I. Several times I thought I was at the end and ready to be BOTG,and would have been had I lived closer ,or had an endless amount of funds.
        It would be days or even a couple of weeks when a light bulb in my head would go off and say wait ,I should check this or that out. I think the reason, I kept pushing out in all directions from an area that I thought was the end, was because it was a general area just like with my clue 3 . It was not exact,as I thought it should be or as I had hoped it would be in the end.

        Two things that helped the most… If you don’t get the first clue right ,all you have is a nice vacation.
        The path would not be direct for those who had no certainty beforehand but sure for the one who did.
        Both those statements scream volumes . Certainty beforehand. Plain and simply you will know before you go.
        Oh yea one more thing ,Forrest said in an interview (I think) people need to think about the things I love. He put story’s about things he loves in his two books.

        Yes my solve uses or goes through a lot of those things,he cares about.

        There will be some who disagree, with my path,because yes, I did use the Internet and , at least one old book ,that is on the net . There is also some local history of the Rockys involved. Yes I used GE ,plus a couple of other old maps.

        Forrest said all you need to find the Treasure is the poem. IMO that’s telling people you don’t have to have the books if you don’t want them, and you need the poem because that’s where the clues are.
        But your going to need more than the poem to solve those clues, at least I did.

        • Hello Lisa,

          I have been exploring some of those theories myself and is very interesting that you mentioned your clues have taken you in and out of the map highlighted areas. Can I ask you if it was just one or was it multiple clues that you found outside the map? I think I have wwwh but no luck on hoB so far

          • All my clue solves are on the map that’s in TFTW , there just not all in the highlighted areas. example Las Vegas N.M. is on the map,but not in the highlighted area.

        • @Lisa, thank you for your honest reply! I keep wanting to read up on John Ehrlichman to see what all he was up to back during those years, prob. a waste of time…also I have a few other must read/research ideas….I hope there is time. Thanks!

        • Hi Lisa,

          I have to run out the door right now, but I wanted to thank you for your thoughts. I think I am struggling with what you have worked through. I seem to have skipped the third clue and that has left me unsure as to the very spot. I need to figure that out. I am sure of most all else, but it must be that clue 3 seals the deal when you get to the end.

          Thanks have a good day.

          Yiga

          • My HOB was easy i’ll say it was my 3rd clue and it falls into place after 1 and 2 as it should . That’s where I had a setback ,between 3 and 4 . No paddle up your creek.
            But in my solve HOB is not a big deal in the overall picture.

            I can say this though , on my path through the clues there were many Browns . Many repeats of many things. Forrest is very tricky ,and there were many stumbling blocks along the way,he made it very easy to get sidetracked,and hit dead ends.I had to back up and rethink a lot of times. But there were other thing’s that when you find them ,it’s a conformation of sort’s. When you find the next step/clue whatever you care to call it ,you know it’s right because it makes a connection to the previous step/clue. IMO

        • Lisa,
          I agree with most of what you said, especially the line
          “A true Treasure map, written in the form of a poem”
          But I am not sure about this
          “There are many stopping point’s, in which your not sure what way to go next.”
          I think we have a a place to start which I would think is the first clue. All the other clues are waypoints, landmarks or travel areas. The way I see it, there is only way to go. For instance, if you start at the first clue and go to the next clue, there is no left or right, just straight ahead. From the second clue to the 3rd, there is only way to travel as well, no other choice & that goes for all of the clues. No choices, just one way for all clues. I am not sure if I am explaining it correctly do to time constraints right now, but, yea, the path is direct as it gets & that is the solve I have now. all my opinion.

          • Jake , in my solve clues 1,2 and 3 were straight forward . After that is when my solve became harder. But in the end , I can now see how it’s all straight forward. There were times when I’m sure I made it harder on myself than it had to be.

          • Lisa,
            I think your on the right path.
            Keep it straight forward. It seems like we all make it harder at some point or another for some reason even though Forrest said it’s straight forward & something about wasn’t playing games IMO.

          • Uh oh Lisa!
            Now that I’m back sitting at my desk reading the email comment again, a red flag went up when I noticed you said:
            “Jake , in my solve clues 1,2 and 3 were straight forward . After that is when my solve became harder.”
            I think Forrest stated somewhere that the clues get easier as you go.
            I am going to have to look that one up, but it sounds as if you may be going down a slippery slope.
            The figured clues in my latest solve get much easier to the point where your literally right on top of them. It took me months for the first couple but only a couple of weeks for the rest except for the HOB (which I skipped) & the blaze which I consider to be the last clue & have to be on the ground.
            God luck & maybe you should rethink all IMO.

          • Well after thinking about Forrest comment about the clues getting easier, I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it. His easy is not the same as our easy. How could someone say it gets easier when the already know where it is?
            My easy is not the same as your easy & visa versa.
            There’s nothing easy about this whole thing. Is there?
            If there was one thing Forrest said, if he did in fact say it, I would be happy to omit this particular comment along with a few other knee jerks.

          • Jake
            My easy is not the same as your easy & visa versa. So very true .
            And I think Forrest also said the person that finds it ,will have worked for it.

          • I would agree with your keen assessment Lisa but clue #1 wasn’t my first way to travel, it was another which brought me back to the first clue. A treasure map for sure riddled with riddles!

        • Thank you Lisa. Let me ask you something else since you have been working on this for a long time and it seems like you have a good solution for the poem (btw, good luck and I hope you find it this year) I am sure you already check for elevation but, does every clue stands the test of time? 100 to a 1000 years?

          What about FF statement about “Your destination is small, but its location is huge”. Did your solution checks out with this too? I am not sure if he means huge historically or geologically or maybe just specific to that state.

          • Oz, you made me stop and think, I just double checked everything in my solve.
            Yes they all stand the test of time. All but 1 are 100 years old or older. That one is give or take 50 years old but I see no reason they or the info they provide wont be around much longer. Unless the internet cease’s to exist or the Rocky’s change in a major way they should all be available.
            “Your destination is small, but its location is huge” Yes that fit’s also.
            Good luck to you also

  43. I just can’t go out knowing that someone might have got it. There was this guy on the blog awhile back that rattled my nerves. He just seemed so certain. Now I can’t stop thinking what if he has it and won’t tell us.

    • Well Moose, I wish I had a dollar for every person that has come here and declared they knew without any doubt they had solved the poem. There is no shortage of obsessive over confident folks out there.

      But hey, if you would rather sit home and wring you hands about someone already finding it instead of going out into the mountains that’s OK. Maybe you can find a nice Canasta blog to join.

      • Hi Goofy, I’m still laughing about what you said. Yeah, I’m one of those people who’s convinced they have a winning solve. I’ve learned the hard way not to reveal too much info about my solve online though. I’ve been talking with Forrest about it for the past couple of weeks, and soon after I began having trouble with my email account and computer. I suspect that a hacker stole my solve. Just wondering if anyone else has been having trouble with their email accounts here. Maybe Randys disappearance has made me paranoid. Idk. Can you help me ask around to see if any other searchers are complaining of strange activity on their email accounts or computers too? Thanks! I’ll be glad when spring comes. I have chase fever lol 🙂

        • CB, I’m not aware of anyone having trouble do to emailing Fenn. Of course everyone should have a good virus program and firewall on their computer. If they don’t it’s just a matter of time before they catch something.

          • Thanks Goofy. I just thought I’d ask. I did a virus scan and it came back all clear. It’s probably my overactive imagination.

        • I too am wary of any detailed corresponded with Forrest. Although I did in fact tell him to delete my emails after his read, in retrospect, a good hacker could easily perpetrate his computer hence email. Your thinking is right on concerning our confidential “solves.”

    • Moose , I can’t remember where I read it ,but it’s been fairly recent (the last few weeks)Forrest said that he believed it’s still right where he hid it. I’ll try and find where that was, I heard or read it, and let you know.

      • On Jennys Site Feb. 4th 2016

        3Q) It seems I ask it every year during these Six Questions, but it is such a curiosity that I have to do so again. Do you feel anyone is getting closer? Do you feel you will get to congratulate the finder of your treasure within the next few years, or do you have a sense it will remain hidden for many more? Can you say?
        Searchers speak to me about their search places only in generalities. I don’t know that anyone has been closer to the treasure than about 200’.

        That’s not a yes or no , but It does mean Forrest think’s it’s still there.

        • Thanks Lisa Ill try to keep my nerves in check, it’s just that he sounded so certain that’s all.

  44. moose- I think that in one way or another forrest has made it to where who ever finds it has to go and see him – so unless forrest doesn’t say its been found I would go and look for it this is just my opinion

  45. In not so sure about that, Frank.Forrest has said more than once the chase is out of his hands.If Forrest was abducted by aliens and never made it back to earth the finder wouldn’t be able to contact him.

  46. If any finder of the TC attempts to convert most of the contents into cash then the word will eventually leak out that it’s been found unless sold to a very wealthy private collector and even then how do you advertise to find such….it’s not going to be easy to keep the discovery a secret for very long, I suppose the original finder could convert to cash on the black market but eventually some of the items will show up listed some place…..or not? Anyone? I keep hoping there’s a deed to a 40 acre patented gold claim in there! iMO

    Off topic just downloaded a new John Gresham book for free if any one is into that author, it’s called The Tumor.

  47. Goofy, et al.

    You know the HoB thing has been a thorn in my side, so let me throw this out there.

    What if Fenn’s ‘home of Brown’ isn’t an exact physical location but more of a generality? A gag of sorts.

    A lifetime outdoors-man like Fenn could take affront at the gibberings of someone who wrote their dissertation (1970’s) about such an obvious concept.

    Micheal H. Brown M.A.

    Micheal H. Brown Ed S.

    Mr. Brown here, for decades has been re-branding himself, and I suspect has even tried to trademark the phrase “Wilderness Vision Quest”

    I found Mr Brown through this link on Internet Archive (archive .org)

    https://archive.org/stream/ERIC_ED300255#page/n0/mode/1up

    The title [or selling point] of this particular symposium was…

    ” How Wilderness Experience Programs Facilitate Personal Growth: The Hendee/Brown Model”

    In essence the guy is a salesman, he’s got a lot of Irons in the fire. You can google him, he’s written 3 books, has an office in Virginia, etc.

    Point being, maybe Fenn is poking fun at someone who for years has been selling the ‘Wilderness Experience” the same kind of thing early man evolved away from. One connection I think I could make is that F is telling us to put in under a Wilderness Area/ HoB

    • 9clues,
      The HOB has been a thorn in my side for all my solves except one & that didn’t pan out. It seems like I am always second guessing HOB even with my latest solve. It’s possible that it could be a gag of sorts & I decided to skip HOB & try to solve the rest of the clues & seems to work for me. I will not know for sure until I go on my next trip, but I must say I was able to figure out all the other clues except for the blaze & figuring out the clues before HOB and after gives me a general area to “put in” & as long as I draw or pull out at the specific spot in the clue after HOB, I will be fine & still heading for the treasure. So my conclusion is like you said “generality” or in my case a general location along a river.
      Warning! This is all my opinion & subject to change without notice.

      • @Jake, maybe the HoB that you have went by a different name back-in-the-day. Like if your HoB you solved for should have something to do with say frogs or something, but your HoB is say Faulker mountain, no relation to frogs, but back-in-the-day the mountain was called Green Frog Mountain. This would then be something you can feel confident about. Just a thought…

        • Could be charlie,
          I will have to rest on that thought. Hey, maybe Purple Mountain?
          My mind is wide open as long as stays within the FF constraints.
          What an oxymoron, isn’t it?

          • lol, Purple mountain was my first 5 yrs. ago. reading poem for face value, ha. I think Dal only had about 40 searches under his belt then.

          • Purple Mountains Majesty,
            I think allot of that area has been searched thoroughly.
            Was wondering if any had searched that creek on the south side of the Madison, below Harlequin Lake?
            Charlie, which areas did you search around PM?

          • @Jake, I’ve only gone on 4 searches, all within a small area. Last time out I think I found the blaze, but didn’t know it then. After getting home, worked the poem and now pretty confident. As far as the “Purple Mountain” area goes, I never searched there. Since I’m in California, don’t get to the Rockies to often. When I first started the chase, I thought that area looked as good as any. Took it down to “lake in/of the woods” south of Purple Mountain, below Shoshone. Boy scouts meet there, called camp LOLL. (which if you moved the first “L” right you get “OWL”). What can I say, I was just starting the chase.

            As far as possible places to search, I don’t believe Forrest has ever talked about the place, so any place in his stories or pictures, etc. I don’t believe will take me to the chest. Now bells or jars, that’s different.

          • Charlie,
            Been on a few BOTG searches myself, some around Firehole River & down the canyon to the Madison. Had thoughts about Shoshone lake & Pocket Lake and around that area but couldn’t find the canyon down from WWWH. The Madison & Gibbon will be a small part of my focus coming up in spring & summer. I have 4 weeks of vacation & will scour many areas unless my tired body wears out. My main focus will be tributaries in the Madison & The Gallatin where the big fish are.
            There are 40+ creeks in this area & all are screaming for attention but only a few are eligible. So many places but so little time. Secret Valley Creek up the Gibbon seems like to tall of an order for weary bones & Norris is to touristy. The Gateway is the key, All in my opinion.

      • OK, Jeremy.
        No one keeps a secret unless there all dead.
        Taking this one to the grave.
        Where did you dig that up? Gotta love it. The Pierces.
        Not everybody’s cup of tea, but the lyrics got me.
        Thanks JP, now before I go rest I need to listen to another more positive song, to overwrite what I just heard.

      • I don’t really know. On one hand I see him referring to his own Scrapbooks as having entertaining stories for readers. On the other I see it as him saying he is personally entertained watching us scramble around trying to figure things out.

        • I agree Jeremy,

          Forrest has just got to be so entertained with us when we think we got him figured out. But he sits back and thinks to himself, ya right,,,,your going in circles. In fact I have laughed many times at myself, I am sure he is throughly entertained. But I am happy to to help out in like that.

          Good day to all. You to Mr Fenn.

        • Jeremy,
          “Read the blogs for entertainment, and the poem like you were going to put an X on a map.”

          for me it was one of those responses I find typical of f. The blogs are of entertainment value yet he is commenting on a blog. Circular? Hint value zero? Or straight forward? Then you throw a couple of other viewpoints.
          I dunno

          • Good point. The blogs are for entertainment. His statement is on a blog. Is it then meant to be entertainment?

            Reminds me of the Liar’s Paradox which goes:

            “This statement is false.”

            If the statement is actually false, then the statement is actually true, which makes it false, which makes it true, and around it goes.

            I’m pretty sure he just gets a kick out of the crazy ideas people come up with.

          • Partially right JP & uk,
            The blogs as a whole are not totally for entertainment.
            Most of his comments appear to be for entertainment.
            His posts seem to have more substance pertaining the Chase & other life experiences.
            It’s up to you to figure out.

  48. The blogs are for entertainment, the poem will lead you to the chest. Straight forward, just like the clues in the poem..

  49. IMO it would be unwise to limit our searches to New Mexico/Southern Colorado because we think Forrest couldn’t have been gone more than a day without Peggy noticing. Forrest wrote in TTOTC that they used to take separate vacations. I would think that happens less in recent years but it’s possible Peggy may have went somewhere for a few days to a week herself, maybe with one of their daughters. It’s not unreasonable to think that Forrest could have seized that opportunity to secret the chest. As long as he returned before her, she would have been none the wiser. A few days to a week is long enough to secret the chest in any one of the four states and be home in time to sample some spices and straighten the silverware drawer…lol.

    • Hello Ramona. Sometimes I sit back and wonder what Mrs. Fenn thought when she found out Mr. Fenn hid the treasure chest. I would have loved to have seen her expression and her kind words to her husband. Could she have said, “That’s okay, Dear.” Maybe she could have thought it wouldn’t have passed her for him doing so. My best thought yet would be her saying, “What?!?” lol

      • Somehow I just don’t think she was surprised. If anyone could tell the motive behind all of it I think Mrs. Fenn might be the have the closest guess. I sometimes think we are all part of the big Fenn experiment. The experiment consist of how one person can use today’s media to influence the masses perspective. Oh, I forgot the last presidential election was that experiment.IMO
        jl

    • Lets see here…” I think I may have solved the poem” and ” I believe I know where the chest MAY be hidden”. I am though certain I am leaving on March 2nd. In my opinion , I may be on the “Today Show” with Forrest soon after that. I think I will be throwing a party and it is my opinion that you will all be invited. Now, Michael, didn’t we make a tu-tu wager last year ? If I am right, (i.m.o.)….you get to wear the tu-tu at the party. If I’m wrong, (i.m.o.) I will wear it at the Fenn-buree. In my opinion, waters is “watters”, bottoms up, and Brown/Blaze= BRAZE, or “BRAZE-BRAZIER”….A person who works with brass.

  50. Good luck SeattleSullivan – Hope (for your sake) you are right.

    Can you at least tell us in what state you will be looking?

    Aghain – Lots of luck

    JD

  51. HOB… has anyone explored this as Colorado Springs where Charles Shulz lived and around the time he created Charlie Brown? Are there resources on what has been looked at already?

    • New-
      Yes. This theory has come up a few times in the past and expressed by searchers on the blog. In order to find out about it you’ll just have to do some reading.

      • Thank you for that. My interpretation puts in below but moves up for there into the mountains. The elevation I thought was it though, is slightly over the threshold that has been released. I will keep at this though as it is pretty fascinating.

    • NTTAAH,

      Welcome. Regarding Charles Schultz and Colorado City I have one bit of information that I have not found to be shared. If you wish email me at ordering0407 at me dot and then com (you can put this together, it helps in avoiding an address from being collected outside the blogs.)

      I will not request nor expect any info from you just want to share this with you since I see nothing encouraging from others.
      Uken2it an oldtimer

  52. The comment about, ( two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead ) puzzles me. There is still one person alive that can spill the beans (not that he would ). I think there is a hidden clue in that statement. I think his father knew of the place where he ended up hiding the treasure. I also think this place was special to Forrest because he knew it was very special to his father. Maybe the place his father wanted to spend his final hours but couldn’t.

  53. On HOB, dal recited “Charlie Brown, Molly Brown, Harvard Brown, Buster Brown …”
    ——————————————

    I even considered “Jerry Brown”, the Governor of California. So that HOB might = California Peak, California Creek, California this, California that. (heeheeheehee) No such luck of course.

    Point being … IMO, I don’t think someone whose last name is Brown has anything to do with HOB. Any person you can think of whose last name is Brown will be long forgotten in five hundred years.

  54. And yet …

    We can hardly ascribe HOB to non-human life, i.e. Brown squirrels, Brown bears, Brown trout, Brown spiders, Brown deer, Brown aspen, Brown cactus, Brown mice, …

    Their habitat is too spread out and changeable.

    What seems to be needed is a non-life Brown that is confined to one particular point (or small area) on a map and never goes away. I have an idea what that might be, but it does not fit well with some of FF’s … verbal … comments.

    Always, his verbal comments get in the way of wonderful solutions I come up with from his poem. 🙂

    • HOB will do that to you, from Wiki
      “… in October 1919, he changed the title to Believe It or Not. When the Globe folded in 1923, Ripley moved to the New York Evening Post. That same year, Ripley hired Norbert Pearlroth as his researcher, and Pearlroth spent the next 52 years of his life in the New York Public Library, working ten hours a day and six days a week in order to find unusual facts for Ripley”

      HOB will do that to you

  55. Hello pdenver

    I think I know what you’re talking about at the site you have searched. I have not been there but I have seen some strange stuff on Google Earth going on at that location. I’m sure there has been some major disappointment at that location if my theory is correct.

  56. IMO home of Brown doesn’t stand alone. IMO you need to figure out the other 8 clue before you can solve hoB. Just my opinion. IMO I know nothing.

    • That is really interesting Anna! Forrest once asked someone if they had an airplane? And we know he flies or did… so he would be familiar with this…

  57. ff has said use, …… TTOTC, GE and /or a good map. I know we all would love to know which map that would be, well, maybe I have found it.
    But I can’t quite make it out. This link about pinion nuts, right near the beginning, ff is running his finger across a map as he speaks…. what type map is that?
    Please post answered, lol
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aJBakBqwQVs

    • It’s looks to be a large fold up map. What State is it, or what type map, the maker, i.e.: BLM, whatever.
      Please post answer here lol, let’s find this thing !

    • Musstag, I’ve watched that video dozens of time but I never paid attention to the part where it shows the gold in the chest. I always thought they were filming a photo, but it is actually a video of the chest. I wonder when that video was made? I hope it is an old video that they added in and not new footage. LOL, does FF still have the chest? I don’t think so but it makes you wonder. So how about it Forrest, when was the chest video made??

  58. Somedays I just don’t know like this morning, I awoke with doubts as to wether it’s still there. In this dream this guy reached for the gold but then someone stepped in an blocked my eye from seeing. Another thing is iv been having loud ringing in my ears as of late and voices talk to me but that wasn’t so bad but now the voices are talking to other voices and that is freaking me. i mean its got so bad I imagine myself as other searchers and I make belief stories about them then i make up other stories to counteract that searcher, straw arguments i thought the chase would bring me relief. now Im not so sure of what is real. my granmother has been supportive an a therapist says i should try an just focus on a thing at a time. It’s hard!

  59. I just meant you don’t have to guess about what warm waters hot is or about which Canyon or which home of brown. They are literal places needing no translation. That’s all I was saying. As far as saying I was going March 2nd I don’t believe I ever said that. If I did, I must retract it because it is still too early for my spot. However, I have been there twice already both times in December. The first time there was 4 inches of snow on the ground, the second time there was 15 inches of snow on the ground. I was not successful either time obviously. But that does not change the fact that I believe I have found the first two clues. I’m not sure where the hostility is coming from, all I have tried to do is provide topics for discussion and ideas to think about just like anyone else. I have always said it is my opinion, and everyone is entitled to their own.

    • “They are literal places needing no translation”…
      Q. how does any of that fit with Fenn’s qualifying remark ” the clues didn’t exist when he was a kid” ?
      Have a good time, just don’t take any unnecessary [Randy] risks. IMO, Fenn is a tough educator.
      Where you thinking of attending Fennboree? I’m worried the right mix of searchers & medicinals could finally lead to a breakthrough.

    • Michael, some people have hostility twined into there DNA .Don’t worry about it. If you have a solve ,go for it. Good luck.

  60. MichaelD,
    IMO, your “literal places” suggestions for some of the clues has as good a chance of being correct as the suggestions that others have made. (I hasten to add that in my favorite tentative solution, IMO, each clue has both a literal meaning and an alternate, often figurative, meaning.)
    Good luck searching when the weather allows!
    Geoff
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

  61. Sticking to my HOB theory and points prior…..I am entertaining moving up from Colorado Springs along Fountain Creek as there will be no paddle up your creek could be based on the 2005 incident with Fountain Creek giving it the slang name only given to a creek that you would be up without a paddle. I believe the direction is up that must be taken. Any thoughts? I am wrestling with a few thoughts on the blaze after.

    • Newly Hooked, What would make your Canyon down? You’re looking at Fountain Creek? Seems you would be going “up” the canyon when the poem says down,,,,or are you thinking that it is down because it is a north SOUTH (down) canyon?

      • My starting point is at a higher elevation and following a specific line of sight ( too far walk) using GE , brings me to a point on Fountain River below Colorado Springs where one can put in. The next direction is up from there based on being up the creek without a paddle. This the fork in the road.

        • @Newly Hooked,

          interesting hob theory, thanks for the reply. You say you are new,,,,how long have you been looking for the TC?

          • I first read the poem in April 2015 and have had a friend make two trips to search. Although we disagree on interpretation and location, I have been really at since Tuesday this week as he plots his third trip. I enjoy the intrigue of the chase and the endless possiblities of where it could be, and am confused by the sheer confidence and condescending overtones of others that are still empty handed. I suppose it is a part of the thrill of the chase. My intial concept is based on the permafrost lines which are based slightly higher than the elevations given, but the shady side of a mountain is always colder a little lower eh?

  62. SL, Spallies, perhaps the vector maps will assist someone. At least they are somewhat easy to follow even for non-pilots. The Yellowstone/Cody, Wyoming airport map was especially interesting with a brown boundary resembling an astronaught’s helmet. Could coincide with poem line one which anagrams to Neil Armstrong. Forrest has certainly been discussing his astronaught friends recently on the blogs. Cody & Meeteetsee are not on my radar to search. But I have to admit that may be an incredibly stupid move not to strongly consider Forrest’s strong personal ties to the area.

  63. I check the blog everyday.The rock formations at the top of the page are starting to seep into my brain. I’ll share and then maybe you all can see them too. Look at the singular rock formation, center and slightly right, I call him Grayskull. To the left is a formation that looks like a lion that is looking over his shoulder and getting a kiss from the big formation that looks like a javelina. To the left of those two is something that I don’t want to say, and then finally, the last formation looks like a melted face that has been carved out of rough bark. Have you seen those? Well, enjoy.

  64. Any one remember when ff was talking stuff that just didn’t make any sense about people in Euorpe driving on the other side of the road… and the Corioli effect?
    well I found this, wonder if it fits in any way to our canyon down ?
    .The word “canyon” is widely used in the United States, and the term “gorge” is widely used in Europe.

  65. Good morning into, in answer to your Neil Armstrong question: nothing new, i was reiterating what. was discussed approx 2 yrs ago on a couple of the blogs. In paragraph 1, sentence 1, lines 1&2, Neil Armstrong can be anagrammed. [IMO anagrams are dangerous unless you are simply confirming a true path already determined]. Perhaps another reference to moon complimenting moon references in the books.enjoy your day.

  66. If a watched pot never boils, does a watched snow drift melt? I can tell you right now,,,,,,,NO!

  67. fellow searchers- although I have one complete, imaginative solve after 3 years of many theories both armchair and BOTG, i decided to take the advice of ff-

    “yeah, i have some advice. read the book. and then study the poem, over and over. read it over and over, maybe even memorize it. and then go back and read the book again, looking for hints that are in the book that are going to help you with the clues that are in the poem.”

    so i finally went back to the book. the first two words are “all of” if you listen good, it sure sounds like “olive” and then there is one more repetitive sound throughout the book– i can not make sense of it, but its in the poem clearly. what am i missing?

    maybe it’s all nothing but coincidence. then again, nothing about it will be accidental.

    • “… I finally went back to the book.”
      ——————————————–
      Hi leigh cramer …

      Congrats on working so long and so hard on an imaginative solution. I wish you the best of luck. One word of caution about going back and re-reading the book, over and over.

      There are hundreds if not thousands of potential “clues” or “hints” in that book, from the myriad topics discussed to interesting punctuation, postmarks, dates, diagrams, photos, specific words, doodles, numbers and on and on. The danger is that once a searcher comes up with a solution that looks good, he or she can almost always find something in that book to justify their location solution. It’s called “confirmation bias”. We tend to see what we wanna see, and dismiss what we don’t wanna see.

      TTOTC is a wonderful book; I enjoyed immensely reading FF’s memoirs. His experiences were moving, sometimes funny, occasionally heartrending, and his conclusions are true and profound. It’s a book that teenagers and those in their twenties especially, need to read for the experience and wisdom FF imparts, and for a sense of historical perspective.

      But for clues to the treasure chest, I’d rather confine myself to the poem, a good dictionary or thesaurus, the right map (not GE), and a good night’s sleep following a heavy-duty brainstorming session. Of course each searcher will approach the chase in their own unique way. And some, including Forrest, will tell you to re-reread the book over and over. Just be aware of the pitfalls that such an approach entails. Cheers. 🙂

      • Ken, you are so correct with that comment, it is almost like you are preaching to the choir in your info melt down and overload assessment, that is precisely why I have tried to reverse the order of events that ff has described, for example, ff says :If a searcher was within 12′ of the TC he or she would most likely find it” just a paraphrase here, then he has mentioned that “people have been within 200′ and searchers who sent him emails describing their hunt came within 500′.

        So if you believe like I do the clues are in consecutive order as described by ff, then perhaps everyone may come to the conclusion that the BLAZE is the final trail at or near (200′) of the chest’s location. That would make it easier to follow than the many places where WWW Halt which is again perhaps straightforward any place on a river where cold waters start. Following that line of reasoning is like backtracking to the place where you got lost in the forest. So after the 500′ or 200′ scenario along the blaze (trail) you would a place where people, backpackers, searchers and hikers go to find peace, certainly a marvel gaze is nearby and heavy loads, water high etc.

        This still does not clearly define the generalities like the multitudes of WWW halt, but in perspective it seems no one is close to HOB etc.

        Tom T

      • Good right up Ken…but I would encourage others to not be afraid to follow Forrest’s best advice for serious searchers by going back to reading TTOTC and looking for those few hints that are abberations.

      • dear ken,
        thank you so much. you have tremendous clarity and i think i needed that reminder. i follow your line of thinking.

        thank you for no attacks, rational writing, true well wishes, wise advise, and brilliant delivery.

        you’re in my top five hopes now to solve this. sincerely, leigh.

  68. Two roads diverged in a wood, and I— I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference.
    -Robert Frost

    Can anyone tell me where Forrest quoted this? In the book? On line?

    • @ Jake, I think it was on that “warmwatershalt” website in a basic code when the clock ran down. I can’t remember either if f has ever said that exact line or not.

        • yeah, there’s been a lot of speculations about that website. Now, it’s just a flag. Was a count down clock that ran down on Aug. 15, 2015 @ 5:15 or 4:15 or something around there. Maybe you heard that line in posts from others, but I don’t remember f saying it. Dal, you know of anything?

          • Charlie-
            I like to think I know quite a bit. But reality keeps stepping up and demonstrating to me that I actually know very little. Reality is such a show-off….

          • I suppose you noticed the snap with the figures uses the same landscape as the one without, just blurred out a bit…

            This site always did creep me out.

          • Hi Jake – thanks for reminding me of TOMWHAT’s solve. I liked that one.

            Apologies to Goofy in advance for this follow-up, but just FYI, looks like the rifle and both soda signs should be clickable as well but they’re not. Curiously, that whole square area looks clickable but is not (bounded at the bottom by the gun stock, at the left by the centerline of the Dr. Pepper sign, at the top in alignment with the 2nd white stripe up from the bottom of the flag, and at the right by, well you’ll have to cursor around to find it).

          • Good grief…….are we going to rehash that ridiculous site yet again. I mean really, that’s all you guys can come up with to talk about.

          • Musstag,
            Archive.org will take a snapshot of a website every now & then for archiving, viewing later.
            Conclusion: wwwh.com website was created by a searcher. No hints or clues there then & of course now. Nice creepy pictures though. I think I had seen them in a video game or 2.

          • Sorry Goof, my bad…@ Dal, it’s not what you know, it’s what they think you know.:)
            Okay, something different. Some think the “theme” is middle.(maybe 1 or 2), but just fooling around on Google Earth and using the Mountain states to reference, marked all the places for “middle mountain”. Don’t know if it’s anything but when done, looks like two Omegas. Maybe I’m missing something, but looks weird in any case. If anything, gives those that have already “solved” the poem something to do.
            Also, I haven’t mentioned the “alpha numerics” for some time so here goes. butterfly is a flutterby. Why? Why not a futterbly? No, not because it “flutters”, because of the alpha/numeric values. , some of the things i’ve enjoyed in life the most come from the smallest voices. Hear me all and listen good.That line in the poem, when broken down is a hint at the values. (a=4,L=2) or (a=1,L=3) or (a=7,L=1). The word good= go odd. As far as the butterfly, in the end, B=FL. B=2, F=1,L=1. So, butterfly=flutterby. If you don’t have the al[ha/numerics, go back to the poem, you’ll find them. So much opens up after.

      • “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location

        • Lisa, thank you for the reminder.

          The only thing we all underrate is the complexity of Forrest’s intellect and the subtle nuances hiding in his dialogue.

          I still can’t figure out if his statement you quoted implies that knowing about those things won’t assist BUT would applying them Assist one to the treasure?

          I do believe the poem is straight forward. Just never certain about his additional dialogue on the blogs.

  69. Goofy,
    I’m turning the washing machine on again.
    You posted this back in 2013 when you were Goofy Old Guy
    Goofy_Old_Guy on May 17, 2013 at 9:31 am
    http://www.85fis.doncondra.org/Forrest%20Fenn%20Story.htm

    This was also posted by a member:
    http://www.85fis.doncondra.org/Mustang%20article.htm
    I found this interesting.

    Old aviators and old airplanes never die… they just fly off into eternity(author unknown).

    ” I’ve never wanted to be an American more than on that day. It was a time when many nations in the world looked to America as their big brother, a steady and even-handed beacon of security who navigated difficult political water with grace and style; not unlike the pilot who’d just flown into my memory. He was proud, not arrogant, humble, not a braggart, old and honest, projecting an aura of America at its best. That America will return one day, I know it will.”

    I have read this before but do not where? Was it in TTOTC?
    Now put it on spin cycle please.

    • That is a very good read IMO much better then what made it to TTOTC but why change any of it? It’s a must read for anyone in the chase.

    • Hello Jake Faulker. I remember reading the story for which you’ve posted from someone else who posted it on Dal’s blog a while ago. It’s an amazing story.

      • I thought I read it in TTOTC but I can’t find it after rereading some, Must have read it here I guess. Funny how you read things & can’t recollect where. Must be getting old.

        Trying to find this in the book ”I’ve never wanted to be an American more than on that day.” I guess I will keep reading.
        Just wondering who the unknown author was?

        • Hello Jake Faulker. I’m not 100% sure I have the correct information, but this may help:

          https://dalneitzel.com/2015/05/09/scrapbook-one-hundred-thirty-eight/

          I emailed someone from the Super Sabre Society because I had questions in regards to them. The gentleman knew Mr. Fenn and he had a funny humor about him. He thought I was trying to find out information about the treasure chest. He said something like, “I don’t know where Forrest buried the treasure.” I responded back by saying something like, “I appreciate the information. I was trying to find out information about the Super Sabre Society. One more thing, Mr. Fenn said the treasure is hidden not buried.” 🙂

    • It is his chapter My war for me sent to the 85th in 06 but appears to be written in 04. It appears to be about 60-70 percent the same as in TTOTC. If Fenn says to re-read TTOTC can this be considered one in the same?

      • It does seem to me that the one sent to the 85th is more about spiritual feelings he had than and in TTOTC it’s more about the war I pretty sure there is one more version out there that I read but it is much shorter and is about him having 2 crashes in the war. I think that one talks about it being the 1500th rescue of some sort and there was an article about that rescue. I’ll look for it.

      • Hello Jake Faulker. Sometimes, authors proofread what was written and change things up to make their point come across. Having too many sentences can make the story drag and become uninterested. Mr. Fenn has stated of all the chapters in his book, this would be his most important for others to read, (paraphrased). Does if have hints? Very possible. This chapter brought me to tears and I’m not ashamed to say so.

        • I would agree that this is the most important chapter to share. I didn’t look for clues in this chapter.

  70. BEWARE OF BEARS

    The Colorado State Department of Fish and Wildlife is advising hikers, hunters, fishermen, and golfers to take extra precautions and be on the alert for bears while in the Dillion, Breckenridge, and Keystone areas. They advise people to wear noise-producing devices, such as bells, on their clothing to alert but not to startle the bears unexpectedly. They also advice you to carry pepper spray, in case of an encounter with a bear. It is also a good idea to watch for signs of bear activity.
    People should be able to recognize the difference between black bear and grizzly bear droppings. Black bear droppings are smaller and contain berries and possibly squirrel fur. Grizzly bear droppings have bells in them and smell like pepper spray.

  71. This is the lull before the mad dash for the hills…be careful out there folks. There are many more dangers than the critters. Make like a scout, and be prepared. Toodle Lou … and keep your powder dry.

  72. Rick Fuller is a searcher and author who recently published a new book that has certain similarities to a treasure hunt we all are familiar with…
    The book is available on Amazon. At $5.99 I decided to give it a try and I really recommend it…
    You’ve got some time to kill while waiting for spring…This might get you revved up…
    and Rick will stop by to answer questions…
    https://dalneitzel.com/2016/02/28/reasonable-doubt/

  73. @ Newly Hooked see your reasoning in your comment before and I can say that I had thought of that before. This may just be a small thing, but could you elaborate on the thought of elevations and shade. I have an idea but wanted to compare notes to see if we are on the same plane.

    Yiga

    • WWWH is the Eastern side of a specific elevation at the permafrost line to me.

  74. Is the Madison Arm Resort CampGround where the FennHaven camp ground used to be on Hebgen Lake Mt.?

    • Musstag,

      Scrapbook 136 has a 1954 Field and Stream “Marvin Fenn ” Article, (Earl Goldring) that was printed in the Waco, Texas Tribune on March 26th, 1954. (Print is too tiny to make out the content)

      My earlier research, however, has indicated a “Marvin Fenn Fishing Camp” located in Montana; same year. Hope you have better luck locating its exact location.

      Could be a positive step forward.

      SL

  75. Update:

    Fennhaven in W.Y. Montana……confirmed:

    “That country up there…..man, you just want to stay the rest of your life.
    The water is crystal clear, and there’s always plenty of it. It’s a fisherman’s paradise.

    Marvin Fenn –

  76. Why in the poem Forrest states: “Look QUICKLY down,” ?
    What would happen if you removed: quickly?
    OK, so I will just look down. -not going to find it-
    This word is straight forward & has some weight to me now, again, after considering all the other clues are all used up.
    If you looked SLOWLY down, would you not be able to cease your quest? -not going to find it-
    You must look quickly down, to find or see it, not your eyeballs or head & or neck moving in a quick direction will help, but rather, holding your breath, poking your head in the pool, opening your eyes & seeing it. You will have to do this quickly, for you cannot hold your breath for a long time, it must be done quickly. All my opinion while breathing.

    • Well let’s see, poking your head in a pool quickly might scare the frogs? You might even see a golden frog :))

    • jake imo quickly means not deep – lets just say that if you look down a hole that is 6ft deep its not like looking down a canyon that is 1 mile deep imo

      • Frank, So your saying that quickly could mean a distance or depth? If you look down too far, you will miss the chest? That would indicate to me that quickly must be a clue if not it’s straightforward meaning. You may be right.

          • Frank, I can certainly see down is depth. Maybe quickly is one of those useless words to discount. But why would have this word in there at all? Look down, your quest to cease – would have been good enough to convey the message, unless there something fishy going on here, if you know what I mean. IMO.

    • IMHO, It’s a matter of what you can imange ‘quickly’ to represent in context to what the event is about; the same goes for ‘down’. I haven’t got here yet, I’m at wise.

    • Jake, Jake, Jake. hunch here…let me help you out ol buddy. look quickly down because the chest is right next to the blaze. two feet.

      • hunch, I’ll agree with you there, it only seems logical the blaze & chest be next to each other, of course the chest is below the blaze IMO. Couple feet, maybe, we will see when someone finds it.

  77. I would like to bring up a topic for discussion, and I hope to hear some opinions and thoughts from fellow searchers….The topic of discussion is precision…

    What exactly does FF have in mind when he uses that word? Will the poem take us to where we are standing on top of the chest and looking quickly down at it? Or is he using a looser interpretation, and we will still have to look for the chest, even after the poem is correctly and precisely solved?

    Let me provide an example…this is in no way related to a solve, it is only an interpretive example.

    If we begin it where warm waters halt…say its Old Faithful geyser…and we must start precisely where Forrest tells us to, and go exactly on the same path he directs us to take in order to find the 10x10x5 inch chest, then logically we must begin it where he begins it. So did he begin it in the center of the geyser stream? Did he start at the observation platform? The parking lot? Or, lets say WWH at a certain canyon intersection that encompasses 50 square yards…How do we determine precisely where in the intersection FF began? If we are even 10 yards off at the beginning, then we are AT LEAST 30 feet off at the end! 30 feet is ALOT when you are looking for a concealed 10x10x5 inch box. So, my thoughts are that precisely is a relative term, and that when the poem is solved correctly, it will lead us to an “ISLAND”. An island of trees, or an island of desert in the trees or an island of rocks in the sand, or some other recognizable feature that will narrow it down for us and help us have confidence in our precision. If I have a solve that takes me into the middle of 10 thousand acres of giant pine trees, none distinguishable from the rest, how am I to go with confidence…or go directly to the chest? Even if coordinates were provided in the poem (I DO NOT believe they are by the way), most GPS units will only get us within 20 feet of the exact spot. Since nobody is going to happen upon the chest, I must assume it is well hidden. So only somebody looking for it in the correct area is going to find it. And then, only if they are CONFIDENT it is there somewhere.
    So back to the question in a different form. How many of you think the poem takes us directly to the BOX…and How many of you think the poem takes us directly to a spot, and we must then search for the box?

    • It’s a really good question, Michael. I suppose this is the time for me to answer it but I’ve been sitting here for minutes and can’t seem to formulate a good one. I’ll try again later.

    • Forrest says people can get the first two from India. If Old Faithful is clue 1, then probably just a normal visit to that general area is required to verify and move on the the next clue. I don’t think precision is required for the first eight clues as long as you have them correct within a few hundred feet and understand their meaning.

      If the box is buried, then precision to within inches makes a lot of sense for the last clue. If the box can been seen from twelve feet away then precision is less important.

    • Michael, neither IMO. Although there is but one key word in the poem, there is also one other that is a close runner up. Albeit to say, I do believe that without one key verbal clue which Forrest spoke, the solve could in fact take a hundred or so years to crack. With that in mind I also believe had this realization after the chase took hold and decided to add this additional piece to narrow down the field of search and possibly for Forrest to both assist and enjoy the thrill of the find in his lifetime. I use the word assist for both legal implications and helpful guidance for the overwhelmed finder. Again, IMO.

    • Actually, I can be more helpful. 400′, for the reasons I discuss here:

      https://dalneitzel.com/2015/08/21/geometry/

      There’s an X (point) or a Y (line) that was shared with Forrest that determines how he knows 200′. That X can be any nameable point, and the Y can be any nameable line.

      Beyond that, I gots nothin’.

      • Rather, X is the treasure… Y is either a point or line (forgot what I was naming my variables).

      • If the chest is about 200 feet from a road for example, thousands of searches moving from one point to another using that road would have been “within 200 feet from the chest” without even knowing they were. IMO…

    • IMO if the poem is correctly understood and followed precisely it will lead directly to the chest. Thinking like this will allow one to believe that the last few clues may be within feet of each other to lead precisely to the chest. Because we know it is hidden, one question crosses my mind, where in the poem does it describe how it’s hidden or how to uncover it?

      • Count, IMO in hi interview with Todd Lovato, when asked if he was someone else, would he like to hunt for the treasure, Forrest’s replay was some thing to the effect that “I would look under every bush in America”
        In TFTW, first chapter “Toys Are Forever” he talks about scary things living in the juniper bushes next to his porch. He was so afraid of them that if a toy fell into one he would leave it. “If you are brave and in the wood” look under juniper bushes. All IMO, not to say it that it is under a bush, but I would look there first.

      • @ count, I have it pretty precise. IMO, from the blaze you walk a certain amount of feet in a certain direction,(all from the poem), that gets you to the “X” or the coordinates, (also from the poem). That’s where you place “Y”. At a certain date, at a certain time, with the sun in a certain place, that 7′ “Y” will create a shadow of a certain amount of feet, due west( all from the poem). You then add the last clue/line in the poem to the shadow and you are there. So, from the coordinates (or X), it’s a certain amount of feet, due west. The key will give you the sun’s elevation and the date. All from the poem.

    • Michael – thinking about your question more without a lot of insight, except to say that I choose option B: I think the poem will take us to a spot and we have to search to find the chest. Why is it you think that the poem will lead to an ISLAND?

    • @Michael, I believe the poem gives you the confidence in how exact it is. Like WWWH, not very precise, could be off feet or even yards here, but a canyon down starts to narrow. And, if there is a trail then you only have one way to go. It’s when you get to the blaze where it starts to pinpoint for you. Then you are basically measuring feet, IMO. And the last two lines put you right on the mark. Confidence in my opinion also is supported by the poem in the since if you know how to read it and solve, adding the lines/clues that you used to do so by stanzas, will give you a number that must be done by design. Lets you know you have it right. All IMO.

    • Michael D, your island idea can be supported by ttotc memoir, not yet sure if the poem supports it. My hunch is that when Fortest says precise he absolutely means it. An older form of precise means to cut or cise down to small bits/pieces. My hunch is the poem leads you to
      an area approximately 12′ X 12′ since Forrest made reference to it being unlikely one would not find it if within 12′

      Here’s another question I’ve pondered… Given that we all seem list after 5+ years, does anyone else think it’s plausible we have to solve to more than one location? If so do you think two places? Mirror image and twins are strong themes. I also wonder if one must solve three locations? My theory for needing to solve for three locations hinges on Forrest in the middle and ttotc illustration with three marbles in the center of ring.

      Anyone have thoughts?

  78. Michael D.

    The answer, IMO, is both. The poem takes me to a very specific “area” – smaller than 25′ X 25′. I then have to look precisely IN that small 25′ X 25′ area for the Treasure Chest. I MAY be able to go directly to it, or at least within 5′ – 10’… IF I am lucky and IF i have solved all of the clues that precisely.

    My son and I are going to my site this week-end. By Monday, I should be able to give you a more precise answer. – providing the weather and certain other conditions are favorable.

    Good luck to you and all searchers.

    JD

    • Good examples but other ideas come to mind about how it is hidden. Some of the last few clues would need to be some what permanent for a long lasting precise solution. As well as some clues my not be locations when it comes to how the chest was hidden or how to uncover it.

  79. I think you should be able to go right to the chest! Hopefully, I will find it when I go! I have faith that I will!

  80. JD…All of a sudden I worry we are in the same place…but I am pretty sure my spot would still be difficult to get to..even if the exact spot was free of snow
    …if you don’t mind sharing, what elevation are you looking at?

  81. Michael – Contact me at SculptorJDA at aol dot com. Do not want to share with everyone. We can discuss off-line if you think we are in same place. ..doubt that we are.

  82. Does anybody see it? I think he is doing what he is doing on purpose. He wants to see who’s paying attention. Oh, Mr Fenn you are a rascal! We’ll see if what I think you have said is what you have said. It only reassures one of what you have said in the poem. My opinion and opinion only.RC.

  83. RC

    What the heck are you talking about?

    What you have written has NO connection to anything posted on this link.

    I am confused!

  84. IMO… It is my belief that the chest will be found the next time I go search for it. Since searchers have been within 200 feet of the hidden chest, I will not be saying anything that will give my spot away. Everything I have heard f say matches my solve. The end of my solve came to me Saturday morning. I had just finished doing a good deed and POOF, there it was. As I say this I am not getting winded. Yeah, I was showing Mary Lou (she had a black marker problem of all things), my interest in TTOTC. I saw the end. I went home and verified my finding. Wholla! This is a done deal. Now, I don’t know if I can get to where I believe the resting place of the TC is by the time of Fennboree, but I intend to give it a shot.
    On a side note, with the end spot in mind, I decided to Google search a phrase I believe f stated as I remembered it. I searched, “no other way to my uncertain knowledge”. How’s that for some thought. It led me to a whole bunch of quotes that we should find iteresting. Also, there was a page about Mark Twain. Did you know that Mark Twain said something like he never let education get in the way of his learning? He really said that. I can hardly wait to hear what’l come out of d’s mind next.
    Well, I just had to say something, anything. All is written IMO. Good luck to everyone. I will mail f with my solve soon.
    Slurbs

    • hey Slurbs, hunch here. be sure to include a photo of the chest with your solve. its really important. even better if the blaze is in there too.

    • Slurbs –

      It’s such a great feeling to believe you have a correct solve ! I wish you the very best of luck and hope your journey is a good one. Go Get It !

  85. I really should learn to proofread before posting my comment. The first error I saw was where I said, “what’l come out of d’s mind next”, and of course it should have been “f’s mind next”. I guess I’d rather stumble in here rather than out there. I wonder what else I didn’t catch in that comment.
    I think I was suppose to learn in the past to not be trying to post comments while at Otowi Crossing or Totave. Cell phone service is not good there for me.

  86. Well, I just got back from my hunt. Decided to leave early to beat the rush. One thing’s for sure, the treasure’s not in Colorado. Wherever it is, the home of Brown guards it well. Best of luck…

      • No, only where the clues led me. I’m just discouraged and broke right now. It will pass.

    • Hello C.B. Are you sure it’s not in Colorado? There’s 265,870+ acres in just Rocky Mountain National Park alone. The Rockies run the entire length of the state.

      • Hi pdenver. Yeah I’m pretty convinced, but whatever. This was my first hunt so I’m just a newbie to the chase. I found a scenic vacation spot though. It’s a place I dreamed about as a kid but never actually went there before…. a deja vu experience. I’ll be returning when I get enough money saved from my second job, or if my lottery ticket wins, whichever comes first. I love the Colorado Rockies. The whole place is a lovely treasure trove 🙂

        • Hello CB. So you did find the treasure! This time it wasn’t Mr. Fenn’s. Imagine the beautiful memories you just had and you’ll be making in the future. Fulfilling a childhood dream? You can’t beat that! If you feel the treasure is in Colorado, go back and review your materials and try again. Wishing you the best of luck and fun! 🙂

          • Thank you pdenver. I appreciate your encouragement. On my hunt I took a couple of great photos. Well, as great as great can get with my cheap phone. I even sent them to Forrest since I read that he enjoys looking at photos from the searchers about their journey. Thanks to Forrest Fenn’s poem I found my own blaze. Just not his blaze. When I save enough money I’m going to visit there again, and I want to visit Mr. Fenn too since he awakened my creativity that led me to find my beautiful place from my childhood dream. I’m already thinking of ways to save extra money to accomplish my goals.

          • Hey pdenver, I already have another solve in mind, but it’s not in Colorado this time. I think I’m onto a good case in New Mexico. Just have to save money from my two jobs first. Don’t worry, I’ll be careful and won’t be going alone. I’m quite the master detective and my trail buddy is an officer of the law. We’re smart and have plenty of back up. This time we’re closing in on the winning solve. I can feel it in my bones 🙂

          • Opps! I meant to say location, not case. Silly me, lol. Good luck on your hunt. I hope you find the treasure 🙂

          • Pdenver, I can tell from your posts here that you have a beautiful soul. Thanks again for all your encouragement and kind words.

    • Two things are for certain: death and taxes. Beyond that, your statement seems audacious, to say the least!

  87. “I don’t want to broaden the clues and hints I’ve written about by pointing them out. What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve.” ff IMO I don’t think anyone’s truly Comprehended this, This IMO Does not relate to the Poem Clues Towards a Solve. From :Seeker’s Recap of Forrest’s Statements……

    • golden knight, you said: “I don’t want to broaden the clues and hints I’ve written about by pointing them out. What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve.” ff IMO I don’t think anyone’s truly Comprehended this”
      Yes I believe that to be so, I have spent some time on this but one never knows if they are right or wrong until they go look. My answer is not one I’ m willing to divulge and if there are some others who comprehend it they probably will not want to share either. These are hard fought battles that are not easily given away. This is one that can be answered by studying the poem, but by asking the question, you have already thought of that i’m sure.IMO
      jl

      • JL, IMO the “important possibility related to the winning solve” is the word that is key, and how it relates to the “blaze” . I found the answer almost by accident, but your right all is in the poem. But again Forrest has told us the answer too, I for one just never understood it as I believe the same for most of the searchers. If you can solve the complete poem clues and are sure of it at a very high percentage 98-100 the hints in the TTOTC book will pop out of it and also ones that Forrest has given in Scrapbooks and interviews and book signings. And if you lucky you just might figure out who the guy and girl that have been close the chest are IMO. Good Luck. Bur

          • JL, so “you” must be the “some” who sent Forrest the 3 or 4 clues that he wasn’t sure about last year. I might just see you come snow melt at the secret spot then. Unique “blaze” ain’t it. Good luck. Bur

        • Bur,
          That question can only be answered by FF himself. And just for the record I don’t think luck has anything to do with it at all and if it does then I am most definitely not in the running. As they say if it weren’t for bad luck I’d have no luck at all.
          jl

          • I hear ya JL, luck has really nothing to do with solving the clues, but sometimes “fate deals you four cards and a joker, and you play them whether you like it or not.” I have been at this hunt for almost 5 yrs now reading and researching things over and over and I have had all the clues fit in my solves but come up empty handed after my searches. But each solve leads me to another and I try to stay focused and not let useless info get in. We know all the answers are in the poem, and in my case there is always a good journey involved when I believe I have all the dots connect.
            Best of luck to you and I’ll be staying idle until my time comes to venture out to the Rocky’s again. Bur

          • Bur,
            It would surprise me if we had the same search area, the odds of that in my opinion are not worth betting on. I am in no hurry to go look, if I’m right it will be there. If i’m wrong it was never meant to be.

            I am curious however, how did you come to your conclusion that I was the one with 3 maybe 4 clues right from my response to golden knight? That seems like a big leap of faith considering that I might have never emailed f.
            jl

          • JL, just a guess when you said you were the luckiest person. So you think maybe you are?

            Hey Friend, Forrest has said a man has been closest to the chest and a woman has also been close and if she knew she would tear up the whole countryside looking for it ( or something like that). It in one of his early book signings videos. Bur

          • Bur,
            I was being sarcastic, Like I said if it wasn’t for bad luck I would have no luck at all. I never learned of the chase till about this time last year, with all the brain power expended and people like yourself that have worked on it for years, what would be the odds of a newbe strolling in and coming up with a complete solve?
            jl

          • JL, the odds of a newbie coming up with a complete solve is very high! If you think about the idea for just a second you will realize a basic fact. 99.99 percent of the veteran searchers (those before your arrival in the chase… And not inferring military background) each have or had a complete solve… COMPLETELY WRONG, that is! So, you betcha. You can easily have a complete solve. Welcome to the family! We all have the correct complete solve, we just haven’t proven it yet though. Remember, f said something along the lines of many paths lead to the same place… Which one will you take?
            Good luck 🙂

          • Slurbs,
            Yes thank you, until it is found nothing can be discounted, that was just my attempt at being humble. I have had 3 failed attempts myself already and at this point it seems I am better at finding where it is not. Winter came and is starting to fade which gave me a considerable amount of time to consider all the possibilities where I went wrong. I tend to read the blogs for enjoyment like f recently suggested because I think originality is a key factor and others thoughts only muddy the waters.IMO
            jl

        • Bur
          I’m stuck on this one spot or area, email my userid at yahoo. I gotta get it off my chest.

        • Hi Bur, how do you know that a guy and a girl together have been the closest?
          Friend

          • how do friend, hunch here. bur knows because he’s friends with me and the wife.

  88. “The treasure’s not in Colorado.” I haven’t searched yet, but I feel your pain.

    )

    and I realize you have not scoured the entire state of CO

    • Yeah, I now know that pain. Bummer. :/ I’ve heard this happens to searchers all the time though. I’m not the first and I won’t be the last. My interpretation of the clues is not Forrest’s interpretation.

  89. IMO, based on our (self and kids) search last year, I’ve come up with a theory of how a searcher might follow the clues “precisely.” It will only take a couple of hours on site tomorrow to prove the theory false. (It won’t be a wasted trip; I need to shoot some photos there anyway.)
    Geoff
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

  90. can someone tell me where FF stated he would never go back there again? What Video?

    • Frank, I can’t pull it up from my hundreds of bookmarks but there is a video interview where he is in his office and says something about I’m not going back there…he nods his head in a subliminal direction too, wish I knew the lay out of his office, lol, IMO!

  91. Friday’s Weekly Words from Forrest from JK’s site:

    “After reading HOD I am prompted to ask, have you considered the “what ifs?” “

  92. @ Bur, you has a good name. I like to think I know the guy and girl that were together near the chest. I know them quite well.

    • Yiga,
      I was under the impression that the guy & girl & whoever else, that were within 200′ of the chest were not there together at the same time. If you know them, did they divulge all the areas they searched or had been to. Probably very unlikely. I am not sure you know of the actual people that have been there. It is impossible to know unless your Forrest.

      • Sorry Jake I stepped away.
        As you know there is no way I could match Forrest, or his mind. i’m way too slow. I doing my best just to lag behind. As for the guy and girl, well that was IMO. I was not aware of another with boots on the ground with them. I will research that to. But as ff says, I gotta stick to the poem. That is my key word.

        It’s late here, off to bed. Maybe while I am dreaming I will solve the puzzle. Wishful thinking!

    • Yiga,
      I’m not Bur but I did have a conversation with Bur along these same lines yesterday. What is up with the guy and girl theme? If they were closest and you know who they are then why is it that they don’t even know who they are? Am I missing something here?
      jl

      • Yiga, JL is right the guy and girl are two different people from what Forrest said and I to understand. Look up his early book signings it’s in one of those. Supposedly the guy was the closes to the chest. Not sure if this will help find the area unless you have all the clues correct and start looking up search solves posted on all the blogs. Good luck. Bur

        • Hey Bur,
          As I remember it f said a guy was the closest but there may have been a girl with him, he wasn’t sure. And then there was a statement that they don’t know they were the close and so its of no help and that there was a lady who if she thought she was one that was close she would tear up the countryside looking for it. I took that as just a random statement about a certain lady not necessarily one that was close. The video was at one of the book signings if my recollection is correct.

          So my question is if this “man” and “girl” doesn’t know who they are and how close they were how would anyone else deduce the answer without more information from f ? Good Luck to you also.
          jl

  93. @ jl, yiga, and bur

    If people know the guy and girl that were the closest then shouldn’t they have the treasure chest? If the people close to the chest didn’t know they were close and someone else knew they were close then why don’t they also have the chest? How come no one has the chest but can possibly know the people closest to the chest? If they know someone was that close wouldn’t they be out there scouring the area where those other people were? Forrest said you would be hard pressed to miss the chest if you were within 12 feet so it seems to reason if you know the people that were closest you should be able to find the chest… or am I letting logic distract me from the poem?

    • Yes I have found logic a funny thing. It is needed but also seems to get in the way. And all very good questions, I wish I had all the answers. Maybe one day.

      But not today, Friday has passed it’s one am, soon it will be two, then you know what comes next,,,,,,,,,,,,A very cranky Yiga Saturday morning because of no sleep.

      I will catch up with all you friends of Fenn tomorrow.

      Yiga

      Hope I didn’t smash anyone’s toes, all posts tonight are IMO

    • JC,
      you are correct this question can not be answered by the poem but in solving the poem it might lead you to the answer. IMO
      jl

    • howdy JohnCena!…hunch here.
      this guy and girl is me and the wife.
      we have the chest in a picture because thats what the poem says to do.
      as soon as all you geniuses out there remove the carrot (bronze box) dangling in front of you, and take the correct steps with feet, you can find this chest too.
      stop looking for the bronze box.

      im scared to say too much else Dal will delete me.
      that would be a sad day….no more hunches.

      enjoy your trip to the mountains!

      • Hey hunch

        So I am assuming you are a bystander now and not an active searcher? Because you are saying the bronze box is phony???

        I’d beg to differ! But hey, what do I know I’m not a genius! The bronze box is a carrot? You’re saying it’s a metaphor for “The Thrill of the Chase”? All possible since I know nothing of Mr Fenn.

        I’m not going to elaborate too much more since I’m going to a spot in May…

        But I’ll leave this tidbit of advice – “So hear me all, and listen good”…

        • howdy Virginia! hunch.
          I’ll gladly tell you …..
          “just take (a photo of) the chest and go in peace”
          easy huh?

          you just have to find the correct chest. its not the bronze box.
          the definition of a chest is a large, usually wooden, storage box.
          the bronze box does not fit this definition its too small.
          this is why photos are so important to FF. also important is to recognize when FF is speaking about the treasure chest, the chest, and the bronze box. three different things.

          self destruction mode nearing 40% now

  94. Just in case some have not seen this yet
    Weekly Words for March 4th, 2016, are as follows:
    *After reading HOD I am prompted to ask, have you considered the “what ifs?”
    Forrest sent that to Jenny this past Wednesday.

  95. hello again fellow searchers…

    there are still 2 things i’m re-searching for, that i’ve taken in over the years…
    can anyone remind me where these are?

    1. video- i thought a collected works vid?? where someone asks if the solve can be completed from home, and ff says, “no. did i really just say that?”

    2. audio only- ff reply when someone asks about the clues in the poem, and ff answers something to the effect of “there are 9 clues in the poem, actually 10, but one of them won’t help you…”

    thank you, leigh.

    • He says no because google earth does not go deep enough and there is no picture of the chest. At other occasion he does says that google earth will help I think. It will not show on satellite imo cause it’s hidden.

    • Leigh – I am adding the Q&A with f that I have in my notes as what he says is not exactly what you have stated above.

      Q. Is it possible to locate the treasure chest without ever leaving your computer and Google Earth?
      A. No. It isn’t. Did I really say that? There is not a picture of the treasure chest on Google Earth. … Because Google Earth doesn’t go down far enough. (11/2/13)

      f is only indicating that you cannot sit at your computer, look on Google Earth, and actually locate the chest because Google earth does not provide a high enough resolution of the spot to see it. I am sure f has been on Google earth and looked to see if it can be seen.

      It would have been great if the question would had been “Is it possible to figure out where the chest is located without leaving your house?” instead.

    • yes! pdenver, that was exactly it- that one. thank you so much for your reply.

      any memory of the other one? I know I heard it- i think late summer of 2014, but could have been early summer of 2015- it was audio only- no video, not an article.

      cheers to the underdogs. leigh.

      • Hello leigh cramer. You’re welcome. As for the other, I’m having a hard time remembering that one. I’m listening to an audio now, but not sure if it’s in this one. They’re really fun to watch and listen to. I especially love the one I already posted to you. This is the one I’m listening to now:

        http://www.eisradio.org/item/003/

        • it’s weird, cause i re-listened to that one 3 or 4 months ago looking for that 10th clue thing, thinking that was the one- i know i heard it. i remember the summer light at my kitchen table. and audio about a truck. i’m listening again now. it’s good to anyway. always compelling.

      • Leigh and Pdenver,

        These are great little reminders of comments… even though most may recall, it’s always good to review…
        I have been changing my mind about how clues seem to relate to the poem. With all the talk about how Little indy can’t get pass the first two clue… How one can’t solve the poem from home… How folks indicate the first two clues and didn’t understand the significance to where they were etc.
        I have wondered if the poem truly hold all the “answers”? clues yes, answers?

        Looking at it from a point of view that the poem with, whatever amount of clues you believe it contains or what those clues are… could it tell of the only two answers? the 9 clues answers, that is… and the remaining part to be understood on sight? I’m not talking stomping to one location to another to another. More that once your at the actual location of the first two clues… something there is needed to be understood… something that lead directly to the chest.

        Even if the starting point is in a completely different state, then where the chest lay in wait. Are all the clues in the poem referring to only the first location? and hinting you ” if you’ve been wise, you found the Blaze…” Now, you know where go…

        Nope that is not a linear way for thinking, but does seem to explain most of the comments. All the information you need is in the poem, need to know where to start, be a impossible to find the blaze with out the first clue… all we have been told. But does that mean the poem has all the “Answers”

        • seeker, i know you are an open, deep thinker, and i appreciate it.

          I have my solve, and i know where i’m going. Those 2 things I just wanted to find again- hear again. you know how we all just want to hear what we need at times-

          i had posted some months ago in the architecture thread looking for something else specific. no one responded, but i answered myself, in case someone was looking for the same thing.

          best, leigh.

        • Hello Seeker. Interesting post. I believe it’s possible to know where to begin, as well as, where to end in the poem. I cannot pick up the chest from where I sit at the computer. I must get up and follow the clues which leads to the treasure chest, just like everyone else. I’ve posted what I thought were the nine clues under “The Nine Clues” section. Remember what Mr. Fenn has said in the past (paraphrasing)…read the book, read the poem several times (memorizing it is better) and go back to the book and read slowly. This is the best advice he’s given. 🙂

          Begin at 49:40 and continue to listen:

          http://www.eisradio.org/item/003/

          • this is some of what i had written over at architecture- pdenver how are you so fast at finding these??? super awesome.

            http://www.eisradio.org/item/003/

            roughly at 35:18 “the clues are there, they’re not easy to follow, but certainly not impossible.”

            and 49:35 “yeah, i have some advice. read the book. and then study the poem, over and over. read it over and over, maybe even memorize it. and then go back and read the book again, looking for hints that are in the book that are going to help you with the clues that are in the poem. that’s the best advice that i can give ’em. You have to find out, you have to learn where the first clue is. They get progressively easier after you discover where the first clue is.”

            other simply great quotes by ff from this interview-

            “the greatest thrill is going by yourself; you don’t know where the edge is unless you look for it.”

            “I just wonder what i’m going to do with all this character” ff

          • and about the reading the book again slowly- that’s why i- a few nights ago- wrote about doing that finally- the first two words in the preface – read slowly- “all of” =olive

            the second chapter first words are I still= ice??

            nothing to do with my solve, but reading again slowly… who knows. i mean Ken brought up a great point about going back to the book and getting confused vs. ?? – i forgot what he called it, but it was brilliant.

          • Hello leigh cramer. Glad I’m able to help others. I enjoyed listening to this audio this evening. After hearing Mr. Fenn talking about “character,” I felt like I wanted to give him a big hug. He and his family have gone through a lot since this chase began, but I believe the majority of it has put a smile on his face. Probably has strong stomach muscles because of laughing so much at how we interpret the clues. 🙂

          • Hello leigh cramer. I’ve gone through the book a couple times or so and have started on “Too Far To Walk,” again. I’ll return to “TTOTC,” soon after. Have to love the chase! 🙂

          • well said pdenver. he for sure chuckles, at least i hop he does. i’ve never met him, but everyone who knows me chuckles for him… i’m in 3 years deep. three winters. late nights. map libraries. diagrams. random thoughts about the chase interjected into conversations not chase related. uh. in over my head. honestly? best to all.

          • Pdenver,
            ” I cannot pick up the chest from where I sit at the computer. I must get up and follow the clues which leads to the treasure chest, just like everyone else.”

            Sure you have to follow the clues… But are the 9 clues, 9 places? Why couldn’t the clues all refer to a single point…a single answer, location of all 9 clues, a point that a searcher discovers the answer to the location of the chest itself.

            The point is, are 9 clues a must to 9 places? why can’t 4 clues explain how the next 4 combined, each of the clues to a singular point. I find it strange how the mind only see this poem as a map, direction, linear, step by step.

            Fenn talks about the what IF’s, talks about important possibility, talks about the first clue and having basically no chance, not only to find the chest, but a miracle to find the blaze without know it. Doesn’t it seem strange, if you know what hoB is or refers too, you can supposedly go right to the chest? Especially when thinking linear you still have What? 5 clues at least left? Yet at the same time folks don’t know what the significance to the first clue[s] were…

            I may be beating a dead horse… But the throwing darts is great for the bars and a few laughs… I thinking what we’re missing is the concept of a poem.

            Just more rambling…. so it seems.

            There was talk about a 10th clue… Maybe the clue that is needed, is found at the place of the other 9 that lead you to, and the ” know where to start”

            So I’ll ask this question… ” look quickly down [ once you found the blaze ] , your quest to cease.” What are you truly doing at that exact moment? what is it your actually looking at… 5.5 years and Not one person has been able to answer that.
            I don’t think it’s because folks have not traveled their path of directions and simply can’t find the blaze… It’s more than likely the blaze is more than a marker… some markers ~Tell…

          • Hello Seeker. If I weren’t a searcher, I would love to tell you what I know of my solve. I’ll try to do my best to explain and hope I don’t say too much of my location. I believe the poem tells of the area, where to start, where you’re suppose to go, what you’ll see along the way, etc. Nine clues…specific area. In my studies, I know the blaze I have to go to. I hope what I was able to share gives you some answers you’re searching for. This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

          • seeker,

            this is really quite brilliant-

            Fenn talks about the what IF’s, talks about important possibility, talks about the first clue and having basically no chance, not only to find the chest, but a miracle to find the blaze without know it. Doesn’t it seem strange, if you know what hoB is or refers too, you can supposedly go right to the chest? Especially when thinking linear you still have What? 5 clues at least left? Yet at the same time folks don’t know what the significance to the first clue[s] were…

            it’s confusing!! maybe if we took a less intimidating approach. just look at the poem- lets say- pretend ff never said a word.

            what do you notice about the poem?
            what sticks out?
            rhymes?
            alphabet?
            a word?
            repititions?
            numbers?
            sentences?
            math?
            patterns?
            vowels?
            sounds of letters?
            capitals?
            punctuations?
            what?
            what’s YOUR gut?
            how do YOU interpret?

            take that, and then, of course is reality, i know- what of the hundreds of things ff has said does your gut tell you is important? he really did say to go back to the poem. so if that’s what we’re to do- what do you notice?

            your posts are always, also so deep thinking and open. appreciate you as well. sincerely, leigh.

    • Hey Leigh, pd, seeker,..

      just thinking on the clues ideas you all are laying out..

      What if the TWO clues “a few ppl” have found are actually the 1st and the 9th clue. Something about the beginning and the End. The same clue.

      And kNOw one has ever solved the 2nd/8th clue because lets face it it only gets easier once you get the 1st/9th clue(which only a few have done). Unfortunately of the few to get the first two clues none have found the correct solution to March 4th…to ff uncertain knowledge.

      At this point the 3rd/7th clue are out there but no good with out the pre heat temp of the oven..

      and still no one can obviously get to the 4th/6th clue if you don’t have the recipe..

      and clue 5… the HOB the mirror of clues will lead you to the treasure chest…

      did FF ever say the treasure chest was at the 9th clues end?? Not to my recollection.

      Find HOB, you find the chest, only bc you followed FF’s instructions….

      good to see you still seeking Leigh 🙂

      • Navy!! Once again, brilliant thinking. You are Always open.

        Yes, of course I’m still chasing… You too? Did you ever get out there last summer? Headed to New Mexico end of May, might try a theory it 2, but my greatest solve is somewhere else… June. Great to hear from you. Sincerely.

      • Hello navyigatior. Interesting thoughts. If you bend those thoughts a little, it could work. I do believe in the mirror, as well as, start at the beginning and end at the beginning. But, is the treasure at the end from where you start or in the middle? 🙂

      • navy navy navy- you’re right, IMO, in a way. the beginning is the beginning, and the end is the end, but the end is not the last clue. how do you always know so much, and not even know you’re saying it? if not me, i’m rooting for you. if not us, i’m rooting for underdogs, jokers, wildcards. best, leigh.

      • Navy,
        I’m not sure how the “first” two clues could be the first and last clues IF the other clues are not of the same place. or at the very least, not a place, but an object or a meaning of the same place.

  96. What a travesty. One of Montana’s most pristinely beautiful rivers became the home of brown sewage yesterday as The Yellowstone Club’s main sewer system broke polluting the green pools of the Gallatin River with 35 million gallons of sewage.

    http://youtu.be/4uKJf-F-W_k

  97. 🙁 truly sick to my stomach over the Gallatin and Missouri Rivers. It will be years before stream biology recovers.

    • I’m still sick about all the mine waste that the epa spilled last year in Colorado, yet if you or I dig a 6 inch hole looking for treasure they cart us off to jail in handcuffs

      • Hello Silentfly. They call that “an accident.” Could we claim digging a hole be “an accident”? Perhaps we could say we lost a contact lens and we were searching for it. lol

        • Hi pdenver . I’ve decided on the wedding ring I accidently lost, and if my wife finds out I’ll be safer in jail. 😉

          • Hello Silentfly. Be sure to slip the ring in the pocket before you leave. Wait. I think I hear the sirens now! Don’t do it, Silentfly! lol

  98. Seeker wrote: “I have wondered if the poem truly hold all the ‘answers’? Clues yes, answers?”
    ———————————————————————-

    Seeker, leigh cramer, pdenver …

    For me one of the main advantages of this blog is the Cheatsheet. It’s rarely quoted, but I find it most helpful because it puts the poem in context.

    With the exception of the physical properties of the treasure chest, almost everything in the cheatsheet pertains either to the poem or to the treasure chest location. For example …

    In the poem, “clues are in consecutive order”. To me that means start with clue #1, then proceed to clue #2, and so on; you can’t skip around. Clue 7 must necessarily follow clue 6. The poem is a map, or as some have said a “funnel”, whereby with each clue you get right, you render the search area smaller. So that, at clue 9, you are virtually at the chest. I don’t see any other way to read the directive that “clues are in consecutive order.

    The cheatsheet further informs us that FF said: “The person who finds the treasure will have studied the poem over and over …” He does not say … will have studied TTOTC over and over. FF also states: “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem.” Again, there’s no mention of TTOTC or any scrapbook or any other book. So that, seeker, when FF says “all of the information”, he might just as well have said “all of the … answers … ”

    So putting those two cheatsheet statements together, we get … all of the information needed to find the treasure is in the poem, and that information is in consecutive order.

    The reason the chest has not been found in 5 years is because the 9 clues are vague and the area to be searched is vast. The point is to persevere with the poem and the cheatsheet information.

    We don’t need TTOTC as a crutch. And we don’t need to contort our ordinary thought processes. It’s rather more a matter of endurance in trying to figure out what he is getting at in his choice of words and phrases in that poem? At least that’s how I see it.

    Ken

    • Hello Ken. Thank you for your response. I do believe the poem holds the answers to the treasure chest. For me, it tells the location and what one will see, as well as, step-by-step directions. Studying for months have brought me to my location. I love to follow instructions. 🙂

      Begin at 49:40 and continue to listen:

      http://www.eisradio.org/item/003/

    • Ken,

      The simple question is … is a clue, an answer?

      Clues are hints themselves, just a more helpful hint/important, a narrowing agent if you will. An answer, can contain many clues that needs to be understood for the final result. The riddle: what’s black and white and red [read] all over, is a prime example of three clues [ w/ possibly 4 clues as read is a twist ] leading to a final answer.

      You may like to believe that the poem is a map, because the wording looks simple and directional,and so “vague” guessing seems to be the method. that’s fine, but this has not been a process that has been very helpful. An estimated 65,000 to 100,000 searchers are doing just that, which should raises question to the method.

      The simple fact is, that this is a poem, should make ya ask, Why a poem to present clues? It would have been just as difficult to place clues all over the book [ which most are doing, looking at the book for answers ] But the poem does something the book can not… it can explain, describe, twist, bend, many aspects to an answer. “all the information” is in the poem… “Information” are not answers that we seek… where are the answers? or better yet, how many answers are truly needed?

      Or is it, that we just don’t know which words, lines, sentences, stanzas, word counts, metaphors, idioms, celestrial bodies, are clues. again, seemingly guess at what a clue may be, and not so much finding the answer[s].

      9 clues may not be 9 answers or even 9 location… this is all I’m saying. But seemingly the ‘only’ process everyone is using. [ with the exception of looking coordinates only ]. I find that strange.

      So allow me the explanation of a thought… Stanza 1… a single location, a place he went alone. right?
      Stanza 2 and 3… describing ‘ what that place is by the use of many clues to hint to it. a single place.
      Stanza 4… hints that if you “found the Blaze” [ still a single place ] NOW you have more to still do. “to cease” maybe just be the action of finalizing this task, and not so much ~ i found the chest ~ Why is it, we need to Tarry scant with marvel gaze? I don’t believe this refers to the find, but more than likely the location/information found at the blaze [ a single location ] that direct you to the precise location of the chest.

      The theory here is… the information and clues in the poem lead to a single location that hold the Blaze, a marker, ‘the information’ to the chest. which may or may not, be even remotely near that blaze. There are no facts that clues are all places, no facts to 8 or 9 different places are needed to be traveled, no facts that the blaze is the resting spot of the chest… and there is no facts that all the “answers” are contained within the poem… just all the ‘information’ will lead you to those answers.

      Stanza 6 states, “So hear me all and listen good” while most like to tell fenn ” yeah buddy, I hear ya, I’m listening to ya ” I ask, is this line telling us, that the answers he knows are on, at the blaze? marker. Hear me all and listen good… a poetic tone to a eulogy? Fenn ruined the “story” by surviving… however, the story was always about… taking it with him.

      Yeah, I know. Seeker you’re making it took difficult… well, that may be so. But I ask, where is the imagination in a map?

      • Seeker – it is good to see you posting again after going mostly quiet the past week or so; it has been mostly less than interesting with your absence.

        Has f’s recently answered question over on Jenny’s site added anything to your thoughts on this topic of clues in the poem?

        “Read… the poem like you were going to put an X on a map.”

        After reading and thinking about that answer, I went through an exercise of reading the poem and identifying what I felt were instructions for identifying or finding nine things within the poem that would put me at a point where I would put down an X where Indulgence is sitting. The process of doing it was enlightening and brought out some subtleties in the poem that I had not considered before.

        This exercise was purely about identifying what are the 9 clues in the poem and nothing to do with what they mean.

        You discuss “locations” and “places” above and I would be interested in how you define those words. Do you perceive them to be within a defined area (all contained within several miles or less, or far apart and extensively spread across the Rocky Mountains? My current belief is that the clues are all within a very defined area or tract of land, and the last few clues are very precise descriptions, generalized by f in the poem, that pinpoint you right to the chest. My take is that the 4th stanza, as you have mentioned above, is the precise description that pinpoints the location of Indulgence.

        I am convinced that how f wrote the 4th stanza has had the exact effect that he wanted. People read it and think they just need to find the blaze, look down on the ground, and then hurry off. I can’t imagine that f would spend 15 years tweaking and refining the poem and then dedicate a whole stanza to telling us to find the blaze, look down, don’t stay too long looking at the chest, and then to take it and get out of there.

        I think I agree with you, if I am understanding you correctly, that all the clues are not necessarily specific places. I would be very surprised if the last three or so clues are not all contained within a several hundred foot area, and the poems’ 4th stanza has the information needed that will help you figure out precisely where the chest is sitting within that small area, and perhaps stanza 6 has some hints that help with understanding stanza 4.

        • Ok JCM let me take a swing at this blaze thing.

          A blaze is a trail with multiple markers throughout the trail. Bear in mind this poem
          is a mirror that repeats itself multiple times throughout.

          CAUTION (this is the last blaze I’m talking about here and this requires multiple steps to get to this perspective. This is a perspective issue K 🙂

          Wise also has multiple meanings as well that applies to the blaze throughout the trail.

          Example: clockwise or in the direction
          (Essentialle if you are going in the right direction you will see)

          I don’t have time to explain this entire poem it is multifaceted and without spiritual help you won’t stand a chance. MOVING ON TO MY POINT.

          If you’ve been weyes and found the blaze
          (We are told to “listen good” wise sounds like eyes)
          West to east
          Look quickly down your quest to cease
          L oo k (these are the eyes in weyes I talked about, there is also an owl connection I won’t go into)

          If you’ve been wise and found 12 blaze
          Look quickly down your quest to cease. I’ll let you figure out how (the) became 12, it’s a two step process 🙂

          OK so if you’ve found the blaze or EYE (look down from the eye perspective 12ft, basically your looking down your nose to a lower elevation (quickly applies to the first blaze meaning fast but in regards to this last blaze it means look to the center with light)

          THEN THIS PART OF THE POEM COMES IN PLAY

          As I have gone alone in there and with my treasures bold I can keep my secret where and hint of riches new and old.

          As far as wether the chest is still there or not I’ll let FF address that. I’m sure you’ve noticed the elevated level of whispering throughout the blogs.

          • If the poem is multifaceted and requires spiritual help to understand it, then I certainly don’t stand a chance at finding the chest. Yet I persist. 🙂

        • JCM,

          I’ve been busy with my editor. Apparently, I played hooky, from English glass to many times, and my comma usage, is, slightly, just a bit, most of the time, completely, off. And my spill-checkar hateed me. I did warn him it was a rough draft…

          The X on a map does seem to fall inline with this, brilliant one of a kind theory, I’m looking at [ someone needs to toot my horn, might as well be me]. An X on a map is a single location. Sure it’s more than likely the X that marks the spot of the chest, but while I tended to read the poem with a poetic intent, and not so much a directional map… I can relate most if not all the clues referring to a single place and an object. Now come the point that one must go to that place and object to see exactly what is there. The theory is, this tells of the location of the chest. Not something that simply says, Go Here. but still needs understanding of what you’re looking at / for. The poem does this as well, too a point.

          Two things have been stated over the years by two other searcher that have always been on my mind… Wolf stated: the poem was designed to make you fail at first [ ] And Goofy stated: The poem should end elegantly. This doesn’t mean the poem is simple or even straightforwards, but cleverly wrote to appear to be what fenn wanted us to see. Fenn has stated the poem has done its job, 15 years of redesigning word choices and placements of those words, tells me that both Wolf and Goofy could be correct.

          It not what you think it is… it what I can make you think it is… Line of thinking.

          Multiple Meanings is the backbone to my approach… especially because this is a “poem” that is the main aspect of a poem, freedom of word usage with all those meanings. And not just the common dictionary meaning. Poems tend to bend and twist those meanings to make it work… seems we heard this before.

          * Straightforwards in a poem? … that is opened to interpretation all by itself.

          I get why most dismiss my thoughts about this approach… They are stuck on a linear movement of the poem. I’m not saying that approach is incorrect… it just doesn’t involve the reason for a poem, and limits results. Results that have not produce a find, and are all over the map. With all the thousand of man hours on google, at the library, reading other’s books, looking at hundreds of map, hours on GE, researching every aspect of FF family, friends, all the folks he every met or mentioned, his pets and even the number of shoes in his closet… not to mention all the history lesson learned and revisited…doesn’t it raise an eyebrow to a possibility, somethin ain’t workin well here.

      • Seeker, you said”
        The simple fact is, that this is a poem, should make ya ask, Why a poem to present clues? It would have been just as difficult to place clues all over the book [ which most are doing, looking at the book for answers ] But the poem does something the book can not… it can explain, describe, twist, bend, many aspects to an answer. “all the information” is in the poem… “Information” are not answers that we seek… where are the answers? or better yet, how many answers are truly needed?”
        Along with many other questions, you ask so many at one time its sometimes hard for me to follow you. This is only a suggestion and perhaps you have considered this because you have mentioned it several times. Is this a poem? It’s not who you are it’s who they think you are. IMO
        jl

        • “Along with many other questions, you ask so many at one time its sometimes hard for me to follow you.”

          LOL!! Halleluja!!!!…….. JL, you wanna borrow some Tylenol? 🙂

          See Seeker, I ain’t the onliest one!!!

          and Seeker…..that perspective does have some merit. (can’t believe I said that!)

          • My wife always asks questions in pairs that one answer is yes and the other is no, so I now in my later years choose not to answer. And she wonders why I never have anything to say.
            jl

          • I’m not just another Purtty face… ya know?
            I keep telling folks that, but they never see it.

        • JL,

          Are you suggesting this presentation of clues are not a poem?

          I can only go by what was known at the start of all This… ” So I wrote a poem containing…”
          Fenn has stated he chose the avenue of a poem to present the 9 clues, as well as, the poem has done its job. I’m a little confused to where you’re going with your question… ‘ is it a poem?’

          I mean, sure we can look at it as directions or instruction. But all in all, it’s a poem for a reason. Making words rhyme is not the full intent of a poem. if that was the case, a lot of tongue twisters would be consider poems… There need to be a substance of context. Not unlike a story or a book which contains a plot, a poem has a purpose or substance… maybe term to use would a body content.

          The Theory I posted many moons ago, gave that idea some legs… The reading of the poem was of “I” or us, a journey of “I” from the Old world to the New world, and using geography to refer to what the poem seemed to be relaying and the travel of “I or humans”
          All using places, location and even events which occurred… And all directional in manor. See, the thing is I look at this poem , obviously, quite different then simple direction and the luck of the draw… Folks call this poem vague, I see so much more than vague directions. I have to, because it is a poem. If this was presented any other way… I’d be on the bandwagon with y’all.

          So could you explain, why the poem could possibly, not be a poem?

          Maybe ya might lite a flame for me…

          • Seeker,”So could you explain, why the poem could possibly, not be a poem? ”
            Probably not, it’s just an aberration but I have to ask myself why does f want me to think its a poem, and if he does then what is he wanting to hide that would be to much information for solving “the poem”.
            Your not the only one with a twisted, convoluted mind. The trick is to get it to match up with FF’s or at least to discover the correct meaning and not the one he wants you to think is the correct meaning.
            IMO
            jl

          • LOL, welcome to my world… did you read the warning notice, when ya entered?

          • Seeker – I just did a search on poems and found the following which I thought was interesting as related to your comments:

            http://classroom.synonym.com/purpose-vs-meaning-poem-3636.html

            The use of a poem to communicate how to get to something is unique as compared to how other people have put forth challenges to find things. I agree with you that there is more to it than just vague words that seem to give sequential directions to the final spot. A poem has the format and structure to allow reference to other parts of the poem in order to gain understanding and meaning. I believe that this is what the 1st, 5th, and 6th stanzas are doing to the other 3 stanzas, and I think there might also be a similar thing going on within the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th stanzas to each other as well.

            Then there are the levels that people seem to think exist. I personally see at a high level words that provide general directions to follow to get you to a specific spot; within those directions are additional words that contain the information, or clues, that are the basis of the places/things that you will find/pass as you thread your way to the final location. The poem all ends up vague and generic when read at face value, but we know that somewhere within all this commonness and generality of words, it all comes together to give precise detail and direction.

            One of the points in the article is a point about talking with the writer of the poem can sometimes help to gain an understanding of the meaning of the parts of the poem. We don’t get to sit down and have that discussion, but f has said that there are subtle hints in the book that can help you understand and solve the clues in the poem. So is the book effectively us getting to have that chat? f has said you just need to think the right things in order to figure out the meaning of the clues in the poem. One approach people have taken has been using the book to find things that they think are representative of the clues, others have approached it as if the information and solution is somehow derived from things within the book (e.g. pictures, date stamps, etc.), and there are the many other approaches people have taken with what they think are hints in the book. Yet people likely have not been using it to understand how to think, whatever that may mean. Is this why the book has been a complete and utter failure for everyone and is loathed so terribly by so many at this point?

            Then there is “a word that is key”. f said that a few were in tight focus with it and that it might cause the chest to be found sooner than he anticipated. If this “word” is in the poem, then it is part of all the information that is contained within the poem needed to solve it; and it would flow nicely into the model of the poem. In that interesting question by the bridge club, they wanted to know if there were additional clues in each chapter that would be needed to find the chest in addition to the nine clues in the poem. f was very clear in saying that the 9 clues in the poem is the information needed to find the chest and nothing in the book provided information that would be required to find the chest – i.e. the 9 clues in the poem is the complete set of information needed to get you to the chest. So does that eliminate the possibility of “a word that is key” as being included in all the information needed that is in the poem? I don’t want to infer that that means this “word” is thus not in the poem; but usually you don’t lock something up and then leave the key in the lock. Maybe this “word” is in the poem, maybe it isn’t, we just don’t know what it is and f isn’t saying much other than it exists. But someone somehow seems to have figured it out. Whatever this “word” is, it is a major contributor to bringing understanding to the vagueness of the clues and making the poem blossom with understandable detail that will take you to the chest.

            So Seeker, I don’t think your completely out to lunch in your approach and thinking about how the poem format comes together to lead to an understanding and solution to finding the chest.

          • JCM,

            I can’t debate what you stated, as I been preaching most of that. You do bring up a certain concern though… The poem’s information. How can we understand what the Information details without something to guide the reader? Is it simply a word that can break open what would lead the reader to understand the poem… all you need is the poem attitude… or is the book still vital to that information?

            Just because the poem contains the “information”, it doesn’t actually say the book is not a necessity [ even though I don’t like to actually admit that ].
            It may be simply saying the poem’s information tells you where and what correct order the hint / clues in the book are needed to be in.
            This still leave the book’s stories hint/ clues, not in any ‘order’, and not ‘intentional’ to aid the searcher, The clues in the poem may do just that… the poem being the ‘intentional factor’ to aid the searcher.

            I know this statement contraction a lot of other comments I make… But I have yet to rule out the possibility the poem may a type of schematics for the book.

            The what IF factor. and why I ask so many question… thanks for a great response.

    • Ken – the cheatsheet is great for a quick reference and reminder to some of the things f has stated, but I would caution you in using it the way you have to logically deduce anything about finding the chest. The cheatsheet is a cheat and shortcut to the things f has said, and like all shortcuts and cheats in life, they rarely produce anything of quality. You need to go look at the full statements from which those quotes are taken so you understand the full context of those quotes and do not conclude something that is incorrect.

      There are a number of incorrect ideas that have been perpetuated and that people now take as fact that have come from the cheatsheet. I gave up long ago trying to fight those incorrect ideas and accepted that it is a great tool for pointing less-than-studios researchers in the wrong direction — thus less competition.

      • JCM, What incorrect ideas have I perpetuated in the cheat sheet to mislead searchers?

        • Goofy,
          ♦ He never said it was buried (he never said it wasn’t)
          Forest said it was buried here:
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXupxL4ovmY
          Moby Dickens Book Shop Nov 2nd, 2013
          (34:00) Was the car, you walked back to after hiding the treasure rented?
          “That’s the 1st time I’ve been asked that Q, but I can’t tell you how many times I’ve thought about that. That’s why I told people I buried the treasure, that I hid the treasure when I was either 79 or 80 years old because I don’t want the exact date to be known because I’m afraid somebody will go check the rental car records & mileage”
          And here:
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipvIGaVt7C8
          Published Apr 2, 2013 – HDNet’s Jennifer London
          (7:04) “Put it at a very secret & a very dear place, private & I walked back to my car smiling.” – How did you pick that particular spot to bury the chest? = “It’s a very special place to me & otherwise I would not have done it, I couldn’t just take it out & bury it in the ground someplace where I didn’t know where I was.”

          But Forrest has made statements that he doesn’t want to give that as a clue?

          If it’s buried, it’s buried under water IMO.

          • Jake if you want to believe it’s buried that’s fine…..He has stated many, many, times he’s not saying one way or the other if it’s buried or not. Then one would have to ask the question; “what does buried mean”. If it’s covered is it buried? We’ve had endless discussions on that topic.

          • Goofy,
            Personally I don’t think it matters whether it’s buried or not.
            If you are near the blaze & recognize the blaze, that doesn’t matter. It’s game over.
            The meaning of bury can vary greatly.
            The meaning of hidden covers being buried.
            But the fact remains, he said it was buried. I heard it twice.
            I’m going to have a cigar & a beer at the Gallatin now.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UdW-mTcioc
            Please recommend better music or natural sounds for this video & provide a link or just email it to me & don’t forget to comment.

        • Hi Goofy – I don’t believe you have put anything incorrect on the cheatsheet or done anything to mislead people, it is only peoples’ interpretation of quotes that are listed there and the application of their logic to them that they get off-kilter.

          Look at Ken’s comment, he rationalized that TTOTC has no importance in figuring out the clues based upon the quotes listed on the cheatsheet, yet f has stated:

          “I have some advice. Read the book and study the poem over and over – read it over and over – maybe even memorize it; and then go back and read the book again looking for hints that are in the book that are going to help you with clues that are in the poem. That is the best advice I can give.”

          If you’re serious about looking for the treasure, read the book, and then go back and read the poem 8, 10, 12, 15 times; and then go back and read the book again slowly looking for hints in the book that are going to help you solve clues in the poem.

          f’s BEST ADVICE and recommendation if your SERIOUS about finding the chest is to use TTOTC to help you solve the clues in the poem.

          Contrast that to Ken’s conclusions from the quotes on the cheatsheet:

          ‘The cheatsheet further informs us that FF said: “The person who finds the treasure will have studied the poem over and over …” He does not say … will have studied TTOTC over and over. FF also states: “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem.” Again, there’s no mention of TTOTC or any scrapbook or any other book. So that, seeker, when FF says “all of the information”, he might just as well have said “all of the … answers … ”’

          “We don’t need TTOTC as a crutch.”

          I routinely see people post saying f said “All you need is the poem” and “All you need is the poem and a map”. And more than a few times I have seen them reference the cheatsheet as the source of those statements. They are not correct, f never said that specifically or in that context, and that statement is NOT on the cheatsheet list; but they derive it from the quote “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem”. They have no concept of the context that this quote was given.

          So I believe I am correct in saying that the cheatsheet has perpetuated incorrect ideas that people now believe to be facts (but maybe I am not stating that in the best of words); you are NOT responsible for how other people think and my comments are NOT an accusation that you have done anything deceptive to mislead with the cheatsheet.

          I personally like the cheatsheet for a quick sanity check and refer to it from time to time. You have done a good job with it. The problem lies in that people don’t do their own research and thinking to understand what f has said, they don’t research and find the actual quotes, they just do a quick read of the list and run with the first thought of understanding that pops into their heads, whether it is correct or not.

          • Dear Mr. Fenn,
            We are a group of avid elderly bridge players in San Diego who after reading your book hope to find your treasure. We are not into poetry as much as the memoir. We realize the clues are in the poem, but were wondering if there isn’t at least one clue in each chapter.
            Thank you for a great book

            Sincerely,
            Emily

            Emily,

            All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search. f

            https://dalneitzel.com/2012/01/26/is-the-book-important/

          • So what do you find misleading about the above statement JCM?

            You want to believe all the answers are in the book. That is your opinion and is fine. Good luck with that.

            All of his quotes lead me to believe the book is full of rabbit holes. Actually, I haven’t read any solution that couldn’t be “verified” with enough imagination using the book.

            If you want to dream up solutions using the book that is fine. But I’m taking exception to you saying I’m misleading people with the cheat sheet.

            Again, what do you find misleading about my post above?

          • So what do you find misleading about the above statement JCM?

            – Nothing.

            You want to believe all the answers are in the book. That is your opinion and is fine. Good luck with that.

            – I DON’T believe that all the answers are in the book, only that the book can HELP a person solve the clues as f has repeated stated. (help: to make something less severe : to make something more pleasant or easier to deal with)

            All of his quotes lead me to believe the book is full of rabbit holes. Actually, I haven’t read any solution that couldn’t be “verified” with enough imagination using the book.

            – Will you share some of these quotes from f that have lead you to believe that the book is full of rabbit holes, I always appreciate your thoughts and perspective on what f says. I absolutely agree with you on many of the solutions that I have read too, an extreme stretch of the imagination at best and just random, pulled out of the air, solves that left me shaking my head.

            If you want to dream up solutions using the book that is fine. But I’m taking exception to you saying I’m misleading people with the cheat sheet.

            – Dreaming is not an effective way to come up with a solution to this poem, f is too thoughtful and cunning. The solution will need to be more like surgery on a brain tumor: very precise and specific, and probably requiring more than one attempt.

            – I am NOT, nor have I specifically stated above that YOU are misleading anyone with the cheat sheet. I am only saying that people read “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem”, then rephrase it and say “all you need is the poem” without ever doing any additional research into what f has written and verbally spoken on the topic.

            Again, what do you find misleading about my post above?

            – Again, nothing.

            And please take you finger of the nuke button. 🙂

          • JCM you wrote:

            There are a number of incorrect ideas that have been perpetuated and that people now take as fact that have come from the cheatsheet. I gave up long ago trying to fight those incorrect ideas and accepted that it is a great tool for pointing less-than-studios researchers in the wrong direction — thus less competition.

            I created the cheat sheet and maintain the cheat sheet so if you got a problem with the cheat sheet it is me you are talking to. You said the cheat sheet is perpetuating ideas to mislead searchers pointing them in the wrong direction.

            So what are your problems with the cheat sheet?

          • Goofy – I like you; when you do something, you do it the best you can and stand by it being quality work.

            As I said above (in parenthesis) perhaps that wasn’t the best choice of words to have used.

            Where I said: There are a number of incorrect ideas that have been perpetuated and that people now take as fact that have come from the cheatsheet.

            A better choice of words would be: There are a number of incorrect ideas that have been perpetuated, and that people now take as fact, which people derived from the cheatsheet, but changed the wording and twisted the meaning.

          • Well JCM, I’ve found people hear what they want to hear; not what is said. Many reporters have got it wrong when repeating what he has said; and they are supposed to be professionals at listening.

            For example there are people that think the book is critical in solving the poem. 🙂

          • Reporters anymore are mostly just entertainers, and many not that great. Most just write or drone on and on just to get peoples attention and make money for themselves and their companies. I trust what reporters report about as much as I trust the cashier at McDonalds to do my tax return and financial planning (hey, they handle money, right?).

            Is the book critical to solving the poem? I don’t know, I can only go with f saying it is helpful, so I will stick specifically to that word. Those just focusing on only the poem seem to be having about as much success as those who focus on everything and/or anything.

            Almost everyone is getting it wrong, I think that is exactly how f planned it to be; he was thinking decades, a hundreds years or more, not just several years. But there are a “few” or “some” who seem to be slowly figuring it out.

      • JCM and Ken

        All you need is the poem… Forrest has said that time and again….. logic helps and research helps but they won’t solve it for you at least they didn’t for me…

        • JohnCena – will you please point us to these multiple statements where f has stated time and again “All you need is the poem”? I would really like to add them to my very large list of quotes I have collected over the past 3 years.

          And I look forward to hearing the results of your solution, I am sure it will finally put an end to all this insanity.

          • I know you asked John but Fenn himself has said he’s told people to go back to the poem many times.

            There’s a lot brain power being expended on the blogs by some pretty bright people Jenny, and it seems they are having fun. But the great preponderance of searchers don’t comment publically. Very few tell me exactly where they are looking so I don’t know how close they are to the treasure. I’ve said searchers should go back to the poem so many times that I don’t want to say it again here.

            http://mysteriouswritings.com/six-questions-yet-again-with-forrest-fenn-always-a-treasure/

          • Thanks for that reference Goofy, I do have it on one of my 20 pages of quotes. I think it is like how Seeker put it so succinctly above and why f made the following comment:

            “Results that have not produce a find, and are all over the map. With all the thousand of man hours on google, at the library, reading other’s books, looking at hundreds of map, hours on GE, researching every aspect of FF family, friends, all the folks he every met or mentioned, his pets and even the number of shoes in his closet… not to mention all the history lesson learned and revisited…doesn’t it raise an eyebrow to a possibility, somethin ain’t workin well here.” Seeker

            “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.” f

            Spend more time on the poem, less on everything else that f has identified as “not assist[ing] anyone”.

            I wonder if f would have any suggestions for those who only focus on the poem, and maybe maps?

            There was his answer a few months ago to the Italians:

            Is it an advantage to buy The Thrill of the Chase and Too Far to Walk?
            There are hints in my TTOTC book that can help solve the clues in the poem.
            https://dalneitzel.com/2015/11/02/forrest-gets-mail-9/

            And his comment about the little girl in India; all she gets is the poem and a map:

            Can a little girl in India, who speaks good English, but only has your poem and a map of the US Rocky Mountains, work out where the treasure is? And would she be confident as she solves each clue, or only confident when she has solved them all?
            I wish I had another treasure to hide in the Appalachians. The little girl in India cannot get closer than the first two clues. There are many disabled people who are deeply into maps and geography, and they are having a lot of fun.
            Maybe if f is having a slow night and doing some reading for entertainment, maybe he could weigh in.

            I am happy to wait for JohnCena to get those multiple quotes from f specifically saying “All you need is the poem”.

  99. Let’s say you have found the TC, what should your next move be?
    Do you immediately come forward, contact Fenn, take a couple of bows and then fade away?

    I have decided on a more hands-on approach for acquiring any further royalties. Personally, I would like to remain anonymous, who other than the IRS needs to know your particulars?
    The plan is simple. Keep quiet just long enough to cobble together some self- made “I Found the Treasure, You Didn’t” scrapbook.
    Aren’t there plenty other pompous folks hawking their books on Amazon? People are going nuts around the world worrying about this bronze chest, so take advantage of it.

    I think you could throw something together [ lot of photos of the gold, the location, your prior searches, your breakthrough moments, etc. etc.] and then sell it online for a couple of bucks.

    If it were me, I would run it by Fenn moments before the announcement is made. Forrest, being a business man would probably congratulate that kind of initiative.

    The idea being, take full advantage of being first. If you say to Fenn, “hey, do think you could hold off a few weeks, let my storybook sales run their course, before you follow-up w/ your conclusion”

    Think of what a sensation it would be if you returned his bracelet at a live media event. If you make a tidy little amount thru book sales, what’s the harm in simply giving it back to the man, the legend?

    Except, I kinda like my privacy, so in the photo at the back of my scrapbook… we will all be wearing Nixon masks

    • I like some of your ideas here. In my case, however, should I be so lucky to find the chest, I would propose a co-authored book with Forrest. I see alternating chapters: his background, my background; his previous treasure hunts, my previous treasure hunts; his need to create the Thrill, my need to participate in the Thrill; and other chapters leading to the blaze, the chest, a shared history, shared meaning in time. In other words the hidey spot morphs into a meeting house.

      • Poetreasurefish, Forrest has already had his two cents er.. books worth. He has told his story. 9clues I like you plan, but don’t await too long after you find it – the rest of us need to know so we can get over this life consuming chase.

        • Respectfully, Natalie, I believe Forrest’s best story is yet to come. It refers to “The answer I already know” and goes on to answer the all-important question: “Why there?”

    • A good motion picture about the adventures of the finder would be a hit and most likely valued more than the chest and its contents. I would never disclose the location of where the chest was found, why spoil the fun for a future chase?

  100. Maybe someone can help me? I’m looking for the original post where Forrest said WWWH is not related to a dam, thank you.

      • Thank you, Jake
        I’m thinking this is one of the most important things Fenn has said in finding the chest location, besides the poem that is. Why would knowing this help to give anyone an equal chance? Almost like the first one to know it had a leg on the competition.

        • I would remain a silent person.if i found the chest.its like you see people win the lotto.people come out of the woodwork everywhere.i would wait awhile.would like to call mr. Forrest,but don’t know if the government has his phone tapped or not or hearing devices secreted in his home without him knowing.i think its hidden where you can’t get in trouble. As i don’t think mr. Forrest would want anyone to go to prison. The satilites up there,the government knows what we are doing all the time. Remember when we could watch cable tv just fine. Then the government came in and said you need this government box in your home to watch cable.just makes me wonder,and the drones they fly over the usa.just like mr.fenn said they’re watching.now thats got me thinking. Did he hide the chest on a air force base.haha.

    • Yes TC, very important.
      I wish I had seen this Scrapbook before I took my trip to Cody, WY, thinking the Buffalo Bill Res was WWWH.
      Oh well, nice trip anyway.

      • If one believes WWWH is the start of a river there’s not a lot of rivers in the Rockies that are not related to a dam. But than again it could just be reference the beginning of the river not being related to a dam and not the entire river.

        I love the “If” game

        • hunch,
          If you want to learn about the west, i suggest visiting Cody.
          If you want to find the treasure, i suggest, your mind is your worst enemy.
          Just keep on taking pictures & the title will show itself in a picture of a chest.
          I am obsessed, you are obsessed, others are obsessed & it appears we all have different POV’s.
          Just enjoy the scenery & keep your eye on the marble.

          • Jake- although you did not specify which home of Brown,
            1. treasure chest
            2. chest
            3. bronze box

            i’m going to give you what i think is the home of Brown as it pertains to the 2. chest (poem chest)

            any one of two log cabins at the Buffalo Bill Center of the West.

            self-destruct mode reaching critical.

  101. It is possible that clues 1 and 2 are contained within stanza 1. Stanza 1 could give you a specific area. Since there are several of these areas within different states, throughout the Rockies, it also could give you the name of that specific area thus narrowing it to a single state.

    Stanza 1 could narrow it even more by identifying what the feature is that you are to begin at. As there are a number of these features in the area, just as there are many in the Rocky Mountains, it could also name that particular feature.

    Stanza 2 could merely be descriptive (a hint?) of the feature identified in Stanza 1 and telling you that you are to begin there. If that were the case the difficulty of the first two clues would definitely be understandable, and how the other clues could get progressively easier, especially after one had solved HOB.

    That could also explain how some solved the first two clues, albeit unknowingly, and walked past the other seven…… They could have recognized the “feature” alluded to in the Poem. They went to one of those “features”, which can be found in a number of states, and it was the correct one. Upon telling Fenn where they went and what they did, he knew they had “solved” the first two, but they did not know it. So, not confidently knowing they were at the correct “beginning”, they failed to associate HOB (or anything else in the Poem) to the location.

    just another .02…………loco

    • Anything is possible Loco,
      But you have to settle down on a geographical area at some time to put your thinking to the test.
      What geographical area would make sense to you at this point & back in time?

      • hmmm, let’s see:

        Gives name of specific area thus narrowing it to a specific state.

        Identifies a feature within that area.

        Possibly names said feature.

        “What geographical area would make sense to you at this point & back in time?”……Reeaally, Jake??? 🙂

      • @pdenver,

        The link you provided took me to this comment:

        36.My top movie Quotes ever! – YouTube

        ohio

        March 5, 2016 at 9:37 pm

        ……………………………………………………..

        LOL!! I can be pretty dense at times, to which Seeker will no doubt attest, but I can see nothing of interest in that post?? Thanks though.

        • Hello locolobo. You’re making me giggle right now. Go back and start at the very top and work your way down. You’ll know what I’m talking about. If you don’t know where the beginning is, how are you going to find the treasure chest? 🙂

          • hello pd, sorry about the late response. I just now saw your post.

            LOL!! I like it when the girls giggle. Heck, they usually just try to slap me!! 🙂

            OK, yeah, I had a pretty good idea where you were sending me when I read the URL. After I clicked on the link I just “cntrl f” and entered “3 or 4”….sure enuff, it jumped me straight to the Q&A I figger you were pointing to…….
            ……………………………………………………………………….

            Question: You told a reporter that there are three or four clues in the second stanza. Were you telling the truth?
            Fenn said, “No, I was not lying but I don’t remember a reporter asking me such a question.”f

            ………………………………………………………………………
            from interview:

            @261–she reads stanza 2 and says, “that seems like a couple of clues to me”,,,,, Fenn says, “ that..that sounds like 3 or 4 to me”….

            @290—she reads, “there’ll be no paddle up your creek, just heavy loads and water high” and says “umm, couple more clues there.,,,,,,, Fenn says, “sounds like it to me”…..
            …………………………………………………

            —He did not “tell” her there were 3 or 4 clues in that stanza,,,,,he just responds to both her statements, saying ”it sounds like”….. And, he is correct, there was no “question” from her in either instance.

            pd– if you (or anyone else) are interpreting that interview as that there are 3 or 4 clues in stanza 2, and possibly at least 2 clues in stanza 3…..then I strongly urge you to continue adhering to that line of thinking and proceed accordingly! 🙂 🙂 

          • Hello locolobo. Now, WHY would a girl want to slap you, or should I ask? (giggling) Yes, you’ve found where I was directing you. You’ll probably laugh at me when I direct you to current “The Nine Clues” section and ask you to find where I posted my thoughts to the “nine clues.” I posted them before reading the link I sent you.

            March 3, 2016 at 2:30 p.m.:

            https://dalneitzel.com/2016/03/01/the-nine-clues-41/

            I’ll continue along with my thoughts, locolobo! 🙂

  102. So, whAt do you think. …ff said at Jenny’s, After reading HOD I am prompted to ask, have you considered the “what ifs?” (Posted March 4th, 2016)

    • What if someone has solved the poem.
      What if someone is waiting to retrieve the TC.
      What if the weather is breaking sooner then expected.
      What if the chase is about to end.
      jl

          • I am glad it didn’t come down to that, although there is still time left on the clock.
            The last thing I want to see while hiking in the Rockies is human remains, specifically Forrest’s. I change my mind, bones would make for an obvious blaze & should be able to recognize bones from 12′ away.

      • What if this is Fenn’s way to manipulate hundreds of thousands of poeple? Well done fenn, well done….

          • What if this is Fenn’s way to influence hundreds of thousands of poeple? Well done fenn, well done….

            It doesn’t have the same ring to me but it does sound more fun this way.

            Jake, its ok to feel manipulated every now and than, or influenced.

          • Manipulate & influence have different meanings TC.
            As do control & effect.
            If you are manipulated, you are not in complete control & the person or entity is usually doing it for there gain. He did leave a treasure chest out there for someones gain, didn’t he?
            Are you under the influence?
            Never mind.

          • It’s just a “what if” jake, do I (or anyone in the chase for that matter) feel manipulated or influenced? Well that’s a matter of opinion just like so many other things around here. Maybe here’s a better question to help answer the what if, do chasers feel obsessed or act obsessed, and if so is that from a simple influence? Like I said a matter of opinion.

          • manipulate/influence……..tomato/tomahto

            Whatever, he has certainly accomplished these two goals:

            reporter asks, “Does it give you some enjoyment knowing this drives people crazy?”

            “Well, I’m kind of proud of that,” Fenn says, “because what you’re saying is I make people think.”

          • Hey Loco, good to see your still Loco, just not as Loco as Seeker.
            You know: Locolobo/Seeker – Tomato/Tomahto – Potatow/Patatoe
            I hate to compare you to vegetables but the Tomato’s are the same & so are the Potato’s.
            But, manipulate/influence have different meanings as well as you & your rival.
            I would feel duped if I had the inkling I was being manipulated & would move on & not be involved in this anymore.
            But we are still here, so we must think his influence has at least given us a choice.
            The choice disappears with manipulation. It is no longer your choice at this point.
            That’s where the control aspect appears.
            Hold the tomatoes & the potato’s & give me an extra dose of humble pie.

          • All right TC & Loco,
            I may be in denial.
            Where is the Forrest Fenn hot line # to call when you are out of control?
            1-800-FOR-REST

            All our representatives are helping other people being manipulated at this time.
            We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you, please stay on the line, a representative will be with you shortly.
            Hi, I am calling because I am out of control in trying to find his treasure, can you help me?
            Yes sir, I can help you with your problem. Please tell me more about your problem.
            Well sir, it all started with the poem, then I bought the books & saw all the videos about his treasure & read all his statements & I feel as though I have no control because I don’t.

            Click —— dial tone-rrrrrrrrrr

            If you feel as though you are being manipulated instead of influenced.
            C’est la vie

          • Funny ,I like that.sometimes I feel like throwing my phone away.please hold for the next rep.your time is valuable to us.——please hold your time is valuable to us..its like the sound of your fingers being dragged down the chalk board.whew.

          • Jake,
            Admitting you are in denial is the first step, good job.
            Being manipulated is not always a bad thing, depending on what one is being manipulated to do. Just like being obsessed is not always a bad thing depending on what your obsessed about.

          • Yes, I know, TC
            It’s tough to admit when your wrong.
            But sometimes it’s better to look in the mirror of life & see the subtle differences you disagree upon are not worth the battle, but worth meeting on middle ground.
            I see your POV & some of the others here & there but you still have to believe in your own thoughts as long as they are of good intent.
            I have been thinking lately my solve seems to match the poem in a map fashion to a tee, but, I am no one special & am humbled by Forrest’s video where he stated about 1,000 years later someone giving the treasure to the Smithsonian.
            I have to say, I am not that special person, although I am a good person. 1k years tells me I will not find it in June when I arrive in Bozeman.
            I think there is a better, smarter, person out there than me in the future to solve this.
            Probably in the distant future.

          • Jake,
            wow a 180 from a few days ago when you in your opinion had “the solve.”What happened to your rose colored glasses?
            jl

          • Yea, I know JL,
            Sometimes you got to be humble, tonight anyway. I will be back tomorrow with a different POV.
            I still see a glimmer of hope in what my mind has conceived.
            I guess I/m just feeling down tonight.
            You know the roller coaster ride?
            Sometimes you feel like the windshield.
            Sometimes you are the bug.
            Tonight, I am the bug.
            Anyway, what ever happened to JD?
            He was going to his spot this weekend with his son & I think he owes me a dollar.

          • yep its a heavy dose of ff poem remorse, happens to everyone at some point. Hope a good night sleeps brings you back to your cocky self, the blog entertainment wont be the same without someone for sure knowing where the chest is at and just having to wait to go get it. I have the wheatbacks but you will have to talk jd into getting some I bet.
            jl

          • Ah, JL,
            Yes, everyone.
            Not so much as poem remorse as video remorse when Forrest has set the time way down the road to millennium.
            Well, I am in good company here, seeing that no one has cashed in yet to his knowledge.
            You wouldn’t be commenting if you had it, would you?
            So we are in the same boat. Are we not?

            Hey JD, click on my name & find the contact page where you can email me & will probably set my address as a safe email address.
            I am looking forward to more pennies to frame.

          • Perhaps, unless the person who has it is trying to act like they don’t for reasons unknown.

          • Hey Jake, I will take the same friendly wager you made with JD, then you will know if IT comes into my possession. Only thing is since you now are talking such an impossible time frame I want 100 to 1 odds all in wheat-backs and make one a 1944 steely.
            jl

          • JL,
            One of the reasons I made that bet with JD, is he disclosed his area to search.
            Now if you want to divulge your general area, so I can get an idea of where your searching, then, I may accept the offer except the 1944 steely & the 100 : 1 odds.
            What I would like to do is get everyone on board to make a wager on all the searchers for let’s say 10 bucks. Watch the pool grow out of control & then there will be another treasure to hide in a few years.

          • I’ll be the fox watching the henhouse. Send your money you uken p.o. Check In House, 90210

          • Jake,
            you remind of all the people that used to say “a penny for your thoughts” ha mine don’t come that cheap and for a dollar to ten I will just keep them to myself. thanks anywayz.
            jl

  103. @ JCM I’ll have to run it down somewhere… I know I’ve seen it but I don’t remember where… sooooo many videos, so many other reference postings etc….

    • I am happy to wait for you to try and find it; or I can give you a hint that you will only find many others saying it, but never f.

      I have watched, listened to, and read – multiple times – just about everything that has been said and reported on f. I have collected all the quotes from all those sources that pertain to anything f has said or that has been inferred to have been said by f about where the treasure is hidden and what I believe to be useful things f has said about finding the chest (I do not think things like what does north of Santa Fe mean to be all that useful, though I am sure other people do).

      You will not find f having stated these exact words “All you need is the poem”. I am happy to proven wrong in that statement and will gladly add it to my list with everything else. But until then, I am of the strong opinion that this is a perpetuated, mythical statement that has come to be accepted by more than a few people as true words spoken from f’s mouth, and many of the newcomers to the search are deluded by the blundering repetitions of the phrase by those who are ignorant of its origin.

      OK, I am getting off my soap box now and moving on.

      • “Dear Mr. Fenn,
        We are a group of avid elderly bridge players in San Diego who after reading your book hope to find your treasure. We are not into poetry as much as the memoir. We realize the clues are in the poem, but were wondering if there isn’t at least one clue in each chapter.
        Thank you for a great book. Sincerely, Emily,
        Emily,
        “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search. f”

        I’ll agree that the wording ” all you need is the poem” is not “exact” However, it does stated clearly that the information “is In the poem.” How can you conclude a summary of “all you need is the poem” not being accurate?

        • I find that the two statements are not the same with the logical statement that all apples are fruit, but not all fruit are apples.

          • Read my last post to you, just minutes ago… I think you’ll see I’m in agreement this this comment, because if I wasn’t , I couldn’t look for other possibilities. I’m not the type to settle on a one and only … I’m hoping that the poem reveals what is needed to be understood. I just personally don’t line up a single ‘ directional’ concept for the poem. It simply does not seem to be working with that thought process.

          • Right on, Seeker. And the apples/fruit analogy is a great one, JCM. I don’t know why others can’t see it. For all PRACTICAL purposes, I don’t see how anyone could confidently solve the poem without the book.

  104. That comes from mysterious writings under the facts section..

    The poem, if followed precisely (and understood correctly) will lead a person to the location of the hidden treasure. Nothing more is said to be required.

    I’ll have to find the video where Fenn says it… I know I’ve seen it.

    • The statement is the introductory sentence to the poem in TTOTC:

      “So I wrote a poem containing nine clues that if followed precisely, will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure:”

      It is a complimentary statement to “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem” and fits the context of the Q&A that produced this statement.

      The bridge club said they knew there were the clues in the poem, but also wanted to know if there were also clues in each chapter of the book. f told them that all the information needed to find the treasure is in the poem (poem contains nine clues, if followed precisely, will lead you to the chest).

      The two-fold challenge f has put to us:

      – Figure out what the 9 clues are in the poem (the information in the poem that takes you precisely to the chest)
      – Figure out what each of the 9 clues mean (f’s repeated statements of hints in the book that will help you solve / figure out what the 9 clues mean)

      Time for bed, I have unloaded enough of my thoughts today and barely cracked the door open on what I have given much thought to.

  105. sounds to me he’s saying to follow the poem precisely, that there are 9 clues in the poem which will help you do that. It’s up to interpretation on if he means follow the 9 clues precisely or follow the poem precisely. If someone solves the clues, will they find the chest? If someone solves the poem will they find the chest? If someone solves the clues, do they solve the poem? If someone solves the poem, do they solve the 9 clues?
    It seems to me that the poem is what will lead precisely to the chest. And that it has 9 clues that will help you solve the poem, which will lead right to the chest.

  106. Further thoughts on upstream comments by “seeker” and “JCM”

    Seeker … your theory, as stated above, sounds almost like you think that in the poem, FF has baked a two-layer cake. The first layer is the directional map that FF has intentionally inserted, specifically to mislead searchers. On top of that first layer is a far more subtle layer that correctly points to the treasure by way of a serpentine route of double meanings and hidden messages that have nothing to do with locations or places. And further, once you reach the blaze, you don’t find the chest; instead, you find more information that will lead you to the chest.

    You could be right. But if you are I would be disappointed with Forrest Fenn. He has said it is not his intention to mislead anyone. And I believe him. He has also said somewhere (finding exact quotes is as difficult as finding the chest 🙂 that the clues are straightforward. Further …

    How does your theory jibe with his comment from the Cheat Sheet that: “clues are in consecutive order”? (A few posters seem to want to dismiss the Cheat Sheet; I’m not one of them. Maybe they are prone to be dismissive because their preferred location of the chest is inconsistent with some statement in the Cheat Sheet … an approach that basically says … if the facts don’t fit my location, then I’ll get rid of the facts 🙂

    So I would invite you, seeker, to explain how your theory is not a form of deception on FF’s part. In other words, how can your theory be correct and yet not be deceptive?

    I’ll address JCM in a subsequent post, so as not to render posts that are prohibitively long.

    Ken

    • Ken,

      “misleading” is not the word I would use. Cleverly written for the purpose to make one think, is how I describe it. Whether the poem as layer or level is not far off to the intent of most poems… that is the reason poems needs to have a personal interpretation.

      Misleading has intent to direct a malice intention. Where making one think of possibilities, or the now, “what IF” factor, ~ the difficult but not impossible clause.

      How many interpretations are there just for the three words “in the wood”? Is it misleading that an S is not there? Is in the wood, to mean wooden surroundings? a forest? a wooden crate? a wooden structure?
      Is meant to refer to a term of, being in the Saddle [ on a horse ], or a saddle is a mountain pass? Can In the wood be understood has a coffin? the word wood is the center of a horses hoof which is called a coffin bone. Can wood refer to [ as singular with out the S and plural at the same time ] petrified wood, or even a petrified forest? There are many variation of just the word wood for interpretations… Are any of those Misleading? or just a clever word usage. to make one think.

      Difficult, is what the poem was meant to be, and I think that most have simplified ” consecutive order” as well. Fenn also used the word, contiguous. The two words are closely related but still, different. I like contiguous as it says, the clues work together, neighboring each other, touching, connected… where consecutive means, a listing or lining in order. Even straightforwards I believe most took as, simple, to a point. But IF the poem does contain twisting of words, or ends up being a single description of one area, and not 9 different location would you consider that Misleading or just made difficult to read as?

      I wouldn’t call 15 years of re-writes, misleading… so if that is what it seemed I stated, apologies. Layering or levels in my opinion is… the different ways the poem can be read. In the end, it may be that all those layer [reading] whittle down to a single reading that becomes straightforwards at that point.

      And I feel the same way about all the after the fact comments… they only help to make one think, no true aid intended… maybe a clarification now and then, which fenn has done… but not an aiding factor. [ example; WWWH is not a damn comment]

      • Hi seeker … I understand what you are saying about layers in a poem; you’re quite correct. But the purpose of most poems is other than to lead people to a physical box in the physical world containing physical gold that one can hold in one’s physical hands. Most poems have a layering purpose more aligned to metaphysics or emotions.

        You quote poster “Wolf” as saying that “the poem was designed to make you fail at first”, to which you seemed to agree. You reinforce that POV by quoting Fenn as saying that “the poem has done its job”.

        Fenn’s quote could easily have meant simply that the poem did its job to get people to think. Wolf’s comment is dreadful. Why would a kind, generous man like Forrest Fenn want people to … fail (on first try, second, or last, or any try)? To believe that Fenn wants people to fail is tantamount to believing Fenn is sadistic, a belief that is laughable in the extreme.

        Still, you have got me to thinking. And your POV is not lost on me, given the perplexing nature of the last two stanzas. Thanks for your response and your willingness to debate.

        Drifter

        • oops, I meant “Ken”. I use “Drifter” as screen name on a message board that has nothing to do with the chase. 🙂

        • Ken,
          What I meant was the poem looks to be one way to you… to us, to the reader. Because of the freedom of word usage a poem give and an Author has the capability to utilize many words, terms [ of many eras ] twist, bend and even make up. A single word or part of a line or sentences in a poem can say many different things all at once.
          My example of wood was to help explain that with just the “chase” in mind.

          Now add the time spent on word choice and the possibility double and triple… because of placement of those words and terms.
          That is where Goofy’s thought hit me… In the end of all the choices of how to read the poem… it should end up elegant, and at that time straightforwards… But if consistently read one way… it is only our own fault, because we dismiss the reason for a poem… we mislead ourselves… we over-simplify the clues.

  107. JCM upthread said: “Look at Ken’s comment, he rationalized that TTOTC has no importance …”.
    —————————————————————————–

    JCM … as I have said elsewhere, I focus on the poem because that is where Forrest has said the 9 clues can be found. For finding the location of the treasure chest, I do indeed rule out TTOTC and here’s why …

    That book contains so many different topics and the material is expressed in so many different ways, a searcher can find just about anything he or she is looking for relative to “clues” or the location of the chest. Here’s a brief summary of some of the topics in that book …
    … alligators crossing a river (p24)
    … picture of Peggy holding a long, narrow fish (p143)
    … Lee Harvey Oswald (p102)
    … a buffalo named Cody (p65)
    … picture of Skippy leaning on a big rock (p56)
    … strawberry shortcake (p38)
    … pick targets … if you have “Mic-Mic” (p78)
    … “I had completely covered up Philadelphia” (p97)
    … in Wyoming between Shoshoni and Casper (p56)
    … schematic of a kid milking a cow (p31) … If you look at this diagram upside down you can see that the cow’s head forms an almost equilateral triangle. There’s a music group that has put out a CD called “Equilateral”; it has been reviewed in a Colorado music blog. Maybe that’s a clue that the chest is in Colorado. (heeheehee)

    We see what we wanna see. And by golly, I’m gonna find something in that book that proves the chest is in Colorado (or Wyoming or New Mexico or Montana). Or, alternately in the case of seeker and JCM, I’m gonna find some reason to rely on that book since I can’t make heads or tails out of that poem.

    In the field of logic, it’s called “Confirmation Bias”. There’s no way to know whether some topic in that book, or the manner in which material is presented, is a valid indicator of a clue or a hint, or has any relevance whatever to the treasure chest. I agree with “goofy” whose rabbit hole comment about the book is valid, in my opinion.

    One more point. Upthread, there was some mention, by Jake Faulker I think, that the treasure chest was actually “buried”, as in … you need a shovel or pick or some implement to dig it out of the ground.

    Word to the wise >>> If Forrest Fenn actually buried the chest, underground, then you can absolutely rule out Yellowstone National Park. Digging is illegal in YNP. Digging is illegal in all jurisdictions run by the National Park Service. I’m sure you will agree with me that Forrest Fenn would never require the searcher to do anything illegal.

    Ken

    • Did you notice that Mrs Kennedy is missing her left foot in the TFTW book.
      Do you think F is doing that to see if we are paying attention to details?

  108. Did anyone find some sprinkles of hints between the two versions
    of stories I posted above. I think I did.

    Also do you realize that many, many of these stories are not Bout Yellowstone, the park, many happened in Montana.

    • Yes Musstag,
      I read them some time ago & I think The Greater Yellowstone Area or Region is another one of his back yards & where the treasure resides IMO.

    • The reason for them being about Montana is because they are all about West Yellowstone. That’s also the reason he sent them to west Yellowstone news. I’ve studied these articles a few months back and found the changes to be informational. The blog is always uninterested in them. The big question I ask myself is, if these writtens are the same as TTOTC do they contain subtle clues as well? And since they appear to be unedited do these unedited parts contain clues that are less subtle and thats why those parts didn’t make the final cut?

      • I see ‘Old Fred’ name replaced , and he added another ‘nickname’ for the same guy in totcbook, Grandma lady has another name as well, and brown gravy added.

      • They are about the same topics, stories, at that link and in the book, book version would have the hints in think.

        • Why take this out of the book? “I surveyed the land that had not changed in a million years”
          Then Forrest said recently “*It will be there for as long as time has to come, or until you find it”
          He knows that area that he discribed above will be there the way it is for a long time, could they be the same? Could that place be part of the “riches new and OLD”? All of this plays an important role in my solve

  109. The treasure would not be affected by the eruption of the Yellowstone super volcano, according to FF…so what makes you believe it is anywhere near that National Park?

    • Michael D,
      Fenn doesn’t seem to share you opinion of that area

      “I surveyed the land that had not changed in a million years”

    • Michael D … whether FF ever said that or not, the reality is that posters here are so fixated on Yellowstone for the location of the chest I’m surprised the blog even allows posters to comment on the rest of Wyoming or the other three states. 🙂

      I can’t imagine a more unimaginative location than the Yellowstone area, and I would be deeply disappointed in FF if that’s where he chose to hide the chest, given his directive to use our imagination.

      • Hello Ken. I wouldn’t be too disappointed in Mr. Fenn if he chose to hide the treasure chest in Yellowstone National Park. There’s 2,219,791 acres to the park. That’s a tremendous amount of imagination. 🙂

    • “The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years but the geography probably will change before we reach the next millennia.” “ff” from the cheat sheet. This statement makes we wonder? The Rocky’s haven’t gone through any changes in a long time to my knowledge. IMO. Why would he make a statement like that?

  110. Mr. Fenn,

    According to recent research about the Yellowstone Supervolcanoe and if I do the maths right, there is a 1 in 700 chance the treasure will get blown to bits in the next 1000 years.

    Are you okay with those odds or does that make you feel like you should move the treasure? …preferably somewhere closer to me.

    (Scientists find missing link in Yellowstone plumbing this giant volcano is very much alive link)

    ~Chuck

    I doubt that a volcanic eruption under Yellowstone Lake would blow the treasure chest to bits, no matter the odds, but it might spread a lot of beautiful cutthroat and lake trout around the country side. f

  111. Now admittedly, I am reading between the lines a bit…but that statement pretty much crosses anywhere within the “blast zone” of that park off of my list…Now, I agree that it could still be in Montana or Wyoming…just not anywhere within 20 or 30 miles of the caldara…

    • You said “The treasure would not be affected by the eruption of the Yellowstone super volcano, according to FF…so what makes you believe it is anywhere near that National Park?”

      Thats between the lines? From this…

      “I doubt that a volcanic eruption under Yellowstone Lake would blow the treasure chest to bits, no matter the odds, but it might spread a lot of beautiful cutthroat and lake trout around the country side. f

      It’s Not even in the same town’s library to me.
      Reply ↓

      • That’s fine…I’m not trying to ruffle any feathers, or convince anyone I am correct…I am simply stating that FOR ME, this comment crosses Yellowstone National Park off of my list….I wish everyone that searches in or near there all the best. If you read Jenny Kile’s site and all the comments made by searchers regarding this topic….they point out some reasons for thinking the same thing. One thing is for sure….Yellowstone is beautiful, means a lot to Forrest, and is full of places that fit the clues. The treasure could ABSOLUTELY be there…But I do not believe it is.

        • Michael D … FF’s comment about the treasure not being disrupted in a thousand years was probably rhetorical. I’m sure FF would be happy if it stayed where it’s at for a hundred years, for example. A thousand years is merely a synonym for a long time, in my opinion. I wouldn’t make too much of it.

  112. I know if I was going to hide something for what I thought might be “time immemorial”, and I tried to think of everything, I would never place it anywhere near one of the most active volcanic areas on the face of the earth…no matter how pretty it is now. Just sayin…

    • If Yellowstone blows nobody will be looking for fens treasure. They would be too busy trying to stay alive and not be eaten by cannibles.

  113. Hi All;

    Am back from a beautiful week-end with my step son at our site. Beautiful, country, beautiful weather, beautiful time spent with my step son. Alas, NO
    TREASURE – Oh well, one can not expect perfection.

    Am more convinced than ever that we are in the right spot. Ice and snow
    made it impossible to do an adequate search though. We shall return when climatic conditions are more favorable—probably in May.

    Jake – guess I owe you a buck.

    JD

    • TREASURE – Oh well, one can not expect perfection.
      On the first trip JD.
      I am sure you have many left in your belt.
      I give you credit for getting your step son involved & seeing nature away from those little finger devices.
      Yes, I know, I play video games myself & have great visuals of the woods & mountains but there is no substitution for the real thing.
      I hope your step son has realized the unmatched beauty of the Rockies.
      I am getting a frame ready for the what backs.

    • Hello JD. You’ve found the treasure in the weekend you’ve spent with your step-son. The memories you’ve created on your beautiful weekend will be immeasurable and unforgettable. 🙂

  114. I just want to say the recent reparté here has been a very enjoyable colloquium. I wish I had something worthy to add something to the conversation. But, probably best not to get in the way of a locomotive.

    Wait: Loco + motive?

  115. So here is a discussion to all searchers

    Since I’m convinced that I know where the chest is I’m going to ponder the “what if’s” for a moment

    Scenario A – I know where the chest is. I get the chest. Chase over. I walk away with the gold

    Scenario B – searcher finds the chest. Walks away with the gold, chase over.

    Scenario C – me and searcher know where chest is and it’s not on property that belongs to Forrest. Doesn’t this become a prisoners delimma? Assumed neither one of us knows that the other knows the location of the chest but realize that the location is the correct one. Ok, now let’s say I can’t get to the chest before searcher but I could theoretically keep he/she from getting it… i.e if I can’t have it why should someone else??? I mean we’re not talking chump change… we’re talking 1million bucks not considering the actual value of the art work here….People have killed for less…. So the question becomes what happens going forward because you could have supplementary evidence of the chest on the ground then disappearing from the ground and the chest becomes property of the owner… Forrest must have thought about this… what is the solution to this problem???

    • Take several pictures of the location, write down your solve with the GPS coordinates and send it or take it to FF personally. He will know if you were in the right location and tell you and everyone. It belongs to who was there first and took possession no matter if you came up with the solve 3 years ago.

    • You ponder the question of what if TWO people know where the chest is, concurrently? Oh my. I’d say your solution would be to downplay your optimism.

      I wish Forrest Fenn had not used the phrase “go with confidence”, or words to that effect. Ever since, the word “confidence” has taken on an annoying connotation. 🙂

      • Oz10 and Ken

        To adress Oz10 – I have not been there yet. But I wish I could go right now….this is how confident I am…and usually I’ll tell you I’m the first to say I’m usually skeptic of any story I hear… because I’m a fisherman and usually I know a tall tale when I hear one…but this is one I’m not sure about… I’d say when it comes to people most of the time I assume they are usually embelshing( a little with some untruths for effect) when they tell a story… it’s usually his side her side and the truth… I’d be the first person to tell you I never thought he hid a treasure… sounds too good to be true…

        To address Ken- if you knew what I know you would feel the same way…I can’t explain my solution for fear of giving it away… you tell me to tone down my optimism…. but you don’t know what I know… I’m not scared to be wrong because I’m going to have fun on my vacation… I could care less if I was wrong… what have I lost for being wrong but I have EVERYTHING to gain if I’m right! This game requires little risk to play (as long as you’re smart about it) because you aren’t risking much but your time and maybe a little money (can’t take that with you….unless you’re Forrest… lol) but to quote Metallica “The Memory Remains” from the trip so you still win “The Thrill of the Chase”!

        • JC, good luck to you whenever you decide to go. If I was confident on the location I will make any sacrifices necessary to go there. Since I will be coming from the east coast it will be best for me to fly and rent a car there, I never been to the Rockies so I will plan to stay a few days and make it a mini vacation with my sons.

          I am still working on my home of Brown and I just recently changed strategy cause my WWWH is not taking me where I though will take me. Fenns’ comment to somewhere that if he gave away the HOB one “could walk right to the chest” was my handicapped cause I was treating the HOB as the “JOKER” or wild card since it doesn’t seem to be a single location. I have a logical solution for everything else in my opinion.

  116. Goofy,
    How many people, have passed by here, stating confidently, they know where the treasure is? Including myself & yourself.
    I know you have seen at least a thousand if not more.
    Let us know, what you have seen being the mod.
    This should give us an idea to our futility.

    • Jake, I’ve lost count of how many are absolutely sure they know where it is. Many have be