The Nine Clues…Part Sixty Four


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This is the place to discuss the nine clues…For instance:
What are the nine clues…
Is the first clue “Begin it where warm waters halt” ?

884 thoughts on “The Nine Clues…Part Sixty Four

  1. OOPS, I got caught at the transition between #63 & #64… so I’ll present my post from #63 again, and add to it here. I’d hoped to get some thoughts before my addition.

    OS2 on March 1, 2016 at 4:17 pm said: Is it established that from the “waters halt” site, there is in near and logical proximity, an actual transportation mode available other than walk?

    The addition, my inquiry:
    I asked because I have a lovely logical WWWH site which is about 10 mi NE from a fair gravel road that follows a river (somewhat) and has a couple of fish camps along the way. At the end of the road, you’d have to continue by foot to the WWH site…. many have already hiked there. Hikers could come from the opposite directions as well, but both routes are rustic and rarely used. They are not actually human trails…. more like long narrow, wet, valleys.

    Then, about 20 mi almost due West of the WWWH is a solid HOB. Twenty miles is too far to walk, & there are no roads to it. A horse or ATV would do, & you’d need to cross a lot of streams and likely spend a night under the stars before you got back to your car. Without roads, and “too far to walk”, how does one do the distance? SO…. does one actually need to do the distance? Is it enough to locate the points on a map, like the girl in India might do? I just don’t think Mr. Fenn used a horse, or ATV. I sure hate to give up my perfect WWWH and HOB.

    And now I am more curious, if people were within 200 feet of “it” was “it” the TC or the 3rd clue? How can they be within 200′ of the TC… if they pass it and THEN went on past the next 7 clues? Either every thing is in very close proximity or it is
    a loop.

    I may have over-thought this all.

      • It’s in the first, at 1.40. But its a short version, the word THEN is not spoken, it is not in discussed that way

    • @ OS2 Just keep in mind his statement(s), two trips from his car in one afternoon and don’t go where a 79 or 80 yo wouldn’t go. No ATV or horses needed. I’ve been thinking about not to far but too far to walk and relating the distance a kid who walks to school would walk….any distance more then 45 minutes would be to far for a kid to walk and get to school on time, IMO. Also in TFTW Chapter 7 ‘concy and me’ first paragraph last sentence, “It was an easy three mile walk from the gate to the lake, carrying enough gear to stay a couple of nights”.

      Hope that helps IMO. Had a TC dream this morning that has stuck with me all day and it was related to going North and the chapter 26 in TFTW ‘lost and found – a saga’ made me do some reading!

      • I really WISH someone had ask Forrest if “his car” he is referring to was actually his own car or a rental.

        If it was his car — then we may deduce that the treasure is hidden in NM or So.CO only. How? Well we know that Forrest snuck this trip in — he never told his wife. IMO So he was not gone for long… because he told her in retrospect. I think she’d notice if he was gone for more than a few days? If it was a rental car, then we know it was too far away to drive his own car… he flew in a plane. If he took a plane, it must have been his own plane… He’s is not going to carry $1M in jewels on a commercial plane. They would stop him and there would be questioning. They would have a log of the event –which he couldn’t afford. So a rental car would mean Wyoming or Montana.

        My guess is that he took his own car from his house… and the event took a matter of hours. This would mean a very limited area.


        • Chris,
          He’s not saying.
          (34:00) Was the car, you walked back to after hiding the treasure rented?
          “That’s the 1st time I’ve been asked that Q, but I can’t tell you how many times I’ve thought about that. That’s why I told people I buried the treasure, that I hid the treasure when I was either 79 or 80 years old because I don’t want the exact date to be known because I’m afraid somebody will go check the rental car records & mileage”

          Moby Dickens Book Shop Nov 2nd, 2013

          • Thanks for that — I never saw that reference. Well that’s conclusive to me that the treasure is outside of NM and probably most of Colorado as well. I can’t think of a scenario where he’d need a rental car in NM or Colorado. Sounds like he flew his own plane (Dal — Forrest still has an airplane right?) To one of the smaller landing fields / airports, got a rental car locally (taxi-shuttle?), did his business in one afternoon and then flew home in time where Peggy didn’t miss him much.

            One of my ‘solves’ actually has a public landing field right near the TC location. I’ve wondered if the car-story is even true at all –in this case, he could have gone straight from his plane …. but can’t give that as a clue.

            About rental cars: I think that any rental car agent could feasibly look up Fenn’s name and dates/location of rentals. How many rentals in those 2-3 key states could he have had in that time frame? Anyone here work for Budget, Alamo or Enterprise? Ha, kidding

          • How about he rented a car because he did not want all his friends in New Mexico to recognize his car pulled off on the side of the road or parked in a parking area and have them come looking for him to say “hi” and interrupt him while hiding the chest.

            Just my opinion, but I would not base my solution on whether or not I thought Forrest rented a car.

    • I see you are thinking about distance. Now some may regard me as a Forrest purest. So be it. Forrest has stated he walked back to his car. So this indicates to me that WWWH is X amt of distance from Hob. Hob being the place where he parked his car. Imho the distance from WWWH is roughly between 7 and 10 miles to below Hob. Someplace in my pile of paperwork I have the figures on
      the distance which Forrest referred to; People have been within so many feet of the chest. Which if memory serves me correctly it came out the length of one and a third football fields. About a eighth of a mile. Here is a little exercise I do.
      I draw a circle and place a dot at the the rim of the circle to represent WWWH. Within the circle I place other dots representing Hob etc. One burning question in my mind is: Can one see the Hob from WWWH?

      • Chad, I like it, the 7 to 10 miles from WWWH to the put in, I’m thinking, no you can’t see HOB from WWWH as it’s down stream (lower elevation and around the bend) it’s a short drive. IMO

      • @Chad, with the Seven Falls theory, it could be on public land (“Strawberry Fields”) within 500 feet of parking. Maybe up a hill to increase time. But he hasn’t said he walked the full sequence twice in an afternoon to hide the chest. I just did this yesterday looking around where I thought it might be. Other than a few deer, and a lot of red/blue spray paint marks on trees for the city survey, I found nothing of hype. I’m not interpreting Madrid correctly.

        • “But he hasn’t said he walked the full sequence twice in an afternoon to hide the chest”

          I don’t think those were his exact words either EC.

        • He said he made two trips to his car and did it in one afternoon…

          In a written article(mag), it was attributed to him that he carried in the chest first and the treasure second(Author’s wording, secondhand!)…

  2. Spring and summer can’t come soon enough. I can’t wait to get out into nature. Plus I have a pretty solid solve, but I’ve said that before… Lol.. I have wrapped myself around some serious hikes and journeys in the past 2-3 years to figure out that I didn’t need to go to those extremes. But that is part of the journey; Mother earth is increasingly beautiful and kind of snaps you back into perspective of what is important in this world. Especially while walking through God’s country and all its wonders.

    My perspective for the 9 clues is that in order to find the treasure, you must find certain clues that can be found geographically and cognitively before you can ascertain the location of its resting place. Very much a mind map. Some are in plane sight and are taken for granted or forgotten about. The journey is like one through a Zen garden where the path takes you through a story and challenges your senses and imagination.

    The clue that everyone is looking for is the correct place to begin, WWWH or where is the HOB The million dollar questions. Keep pondering them. They may have more than one meaning or location. I believe I have found “the spot” many times, to walk away feeling empty handed. But after further evaluation, to have found a clue staring me in the face. Maybe it’s a never ending rabbit hole, that I am burroughing through but it is one that I am thoroughly enjoying. Never give up on your solve, because it is yours, and that is treasure enough.

    Good luck everyone and please be safe. Double, triple check your routes, paths, and preperations for your journeys. But most of all, have a blast. You only live once.

      • Thanks Jake. I wish you luck on your search as well. The treasure in life is nature and being able to enjoy it. Don’t get me wrong, being able to pull the chest from its resting place, solving the riddle would be a great treasure.

  3. if you are brave and in the wood- and no place for the meek would that be children? I know what he said -but is he saying its no place for the young to go? just thinking

    • Frank,
      I just want to put what “meek” is as far as who maybe Forrest is referencing with it. Of course this is just my opinion and the way I think it is meant.

      No place for the meek-are normal everyday people who are not really familiar with being out in the mountains among nature. These people tend to be very cautious when ever they are on foot off the main roads when in this kind of terrain. Now “kids” no matter what lifestyle their from are curious by nature and love to explore and are always twenty feet ahead of you looking for what’s up around the bend. So a place that is not for the “meek” is someplace off the main safe trial. If there is a animal trail off that safe trail and there is bighorn sheep dropping at the beginning of that trail for sure a meek person would not most likely go that direction because the droppings means the are wild animals , and they are happy where they are. But on the other hand children want to see that animal that made them droppings and will head that way. So does the animal trail present a danger? The answer is maybe yes or maybe no, this is where someone who is familiar with being outdoors in nature may have knowledge of how to proceed wisely down that trail to ensure that it can be done in a safe manor. Maybe they also know what animals inhabit or frequent the area and know that maybe there is no real threat of very dangerous animals being there. No place is 100% safe, but if you don’t try to see past that main trail then this is where the “meek” part kicks in, and they miss out on finding the chest.
      IMO the area off that main trail that takes you to the “blaze” is safe for children for the most part and parents should always keep children in plane sight no matter what. And if your child is lucky they just might see that family of ” bighorn sheep on the mountain side. Good luck and have fun out there. Bur

      • Bur thanks for your reply good comment I will try to keep that in mind while working on my solve – thanks

      • My thought exactly. It is said that 98% of the people see 2% of Yellowstone park. The other 98% of the park is used by just 2% of the people. So if you are in the 2%, you are not meek, no matter how safe your hike is.

  4. FF says that some searches have been 200 or 500 feet away using his nine clues but walked right passed the treasure..why because they failed to use the key word “Wisdom” in the sentence talking about the blaze..without using wisdom u cannot find the blaze and you will walk right passed it..remember if you use FF nine clues as an outdoorsman the clues will make more is wisdom you cannot see the blaze on a map only in person and the blaze will stand out..but to find the blaze first use wisdom..FF wouldnt have mentioned the word wisdom if you could find the blaze is wisdom when did FF hid the treasure..happy hunting..

  5. So, I figured out the poem and my nine clues several years ago. I explored my idea with my son, living out of our Honda Element for two weeks on the road. We had a flat tire, got stuck in the snow, all above 10,000 feet. I had my hands deep down in the cold waters where I could feel a square edge of a box, I pulled back to warm my hands and reached back in…I could not again feel the edge again. The water was too cold. We gave up to try other ideas of the finally quest. I knew the final resting place would be harder when on the ground. My research of maps and the internet brought me to this place. Forrest is right when he says “when you have solved it, you will know”. I know and have been waiting for three years now to get back to that sight. The more I read the poem here at home, 2,200 miles away, I know I my solve is correct with in a few hundred yards or a few feet. Forrest has clues hidden in the bronze bells and jars. My reseach has taken me to two countries and two languages. I may have touched it, but will not know until I return…..

  6. Jplpohoto. I find it very hard to believe if you were close enough to get your hands on the box you would not have left it. Frostbite or not.

    • Will,
      If you remember and you should, if you have all of the poem figured out, Forest has planned on laying next to the chest and die there or at least that’s where his bones will rest. If it is his bones (I don’t think so) then someone would have to bring the bones to the spot. At which time they will retrieve the chest I’m sure.
      But good luck with your solve,

      • Tim-
        Forrest has repeated that he no longer intends to return to his secret place to die. He said that he has no idea how or when he will die and he could get hit by a bus downtown. He has also said that he will not be going back to the the treasure chest for any reason.

        • also Dal was he not clear to channel 13 reporters, two gals i remember the end of the show. she said f told her the chest is easy to get, nothing needs disturbing no tools digging etc

          people like james make it seem hard from scrapbooks but we have a official word from his mouth saying nothing to disturb that is more concrete than trying to decifer his poetry

      • Hey Tim PM, hunch here. Yeah I agree. they aint his own dead bones. hes talking about bones he dug up in an archaeological dig. thats where the chest is right now.
        take the chest and leave my bones.

        well, thats about all you can do because theres a guardrail protecting the chest and bones.

        and hey all you geniuses out there- I dont have to say IMO because im a hunch and its implied already.

  7. sub –
    Poem Level I = 9 sentences = 9 clues ==> each clue feeds the next sentence
    Level II ==> Use poem as a treasure map (Directions)
    Level III ==> Not sure : ) , I sure hope not.

    • Arca, thanks so much for that. iv’e been on this crazy treasure hunt now for over three years and never, ever has anybody leveled with me.

      • I enjoy talking about this, there are so many ahead of me, i think opening talking about theories might bunch up the pack a little. Those rabbits are getting to far ahead. Feel free to contact me and opening discuss anything.
        Happy Hunting and be safe.

    • @Arca, pretty good.

      level 1= 11 lines that give you your alpha/numeric. primary values add up to 80, secondary 57. 80+57=137, = 1+3+7= 11.

      level 2= 9 lines that give you your coordinates.

      level 3= 9 lines that you use for your path.(Thee 9 clues).

      level 2, 9 lines, when added by stanza will give you the exact elevation of those coordinates.

      adding up all the lines by stanza, for each level, then adding each level will give you a number that will give you confidence that the whole thing is right.

      The number 80 plays a role in all.

      • Wow Charlie thank you for your post. I had to take a few days off of searching and just saw your post today. I played with alpha/numeric a couple weeks ago and couldn’t get the longitude to work out in the right range for the Rockies. I’m looking forward to taking a second look again (as soon as i get home from work!).
        Happy Hunting and be safe.

  8. Dal, love this site and all the comments/experiences posted from fellow searchers.

    I have not looked for the treasure but here is what I come up with:

    WWWH (Wyoming)
    Blaze / treasure hidden (Montana)
    Next time you plan on searching use the Key word “Wisdom” remember to find the blaze you have to use wisdom

    I know you have been to many locations but if I talked you about one location and asked you questions about the area I believe the treasure is in that area.. hopefully I will be in the US to search but might be in Philippines

    hint: FF did not hide the treasure in a river or creek because he said he would lay next to the treasure..your surroundings should be mountains in background, pine trees, animals near by, river or creek, meadow, and wooden area..hehehe

    • Hey Woody, glad to hear you might make it here for a search. I want to put my two cents here for ya. IMO most of the clues can be seen from a good satellite map view of the area, one needs boots on the ground to see that clue. Two clues need a lot of research to identify but after you do they can be seen from a good map. Also remember Forrest had said (not a quote) something like you can’t see the “chest” from Goggle earth or satellite (not sure) because it doesn’t zoom down close enough, but he didn’t say anything about the “blaze”. All is IMO. Good luck. Bur

      • Bur,
        You are correct to the point that FF said google Earth does not clear up the chest location. It stays blurred out with the rest of the area.. Which brings me to my next question, Is there anything else other than G.E. that would zoom in better?? This is the 21st century, there has to be something…

        • Tim-
          Yep..your eyeballs…get outside and look for it. I don’t think Forrest intended folks to sit at home in front of a computer and look for it. You can research til you’re blue in the face but in the end, in my opinion, you need to get outside, preferably with friends, start walking around…

          You can only do so much with a computer. Once you have a starting place and have determined the first couple of clues, grab TTOTC and your sleeping bag and enjoy yourself in the magnificent Rockies..

          I think Forrest intended it to be found this way.

          • Hi Dal,

            You are totally right. The laptop can give me a host of very interesting info and great ideas and a serious solve ( like 50,000 others…), but it’s only by physically being out there in the Rockies looking will take me to the next level. I speak from Cairo, Egypt so can only do so much…. Think of me as being in the same team as the little girl from India or Gujarat as someone said?..btw who was it who said Gujarat?

  9. HELP

    Somewhere, ff made a statement similar to – Read the poem then read TTOTC and then read and reread the poem over and over again….or something close to that.

    Can anyone please direct me to this quote?

    Thanks in advance for your help.


    • JD…’Mr. heartattack’

      (IMO) people should have the poem memorized.
      Then you should know the all of the stories in TTOTC cold.

      You have to keep at it, like learning a foreign language, or cramming to go on Jeopardy.

      Honestly, does anyone really get what Fenn is talking about in chapter ‘My War for Me’ ? It was, by far the most pages, the meat of the book, is it imperative that all of the facts check?

      I believe he crafted a message(s) into that chapter. Vietnam was a disaster, it shames us, disgusts our sense of right & wrong. As Americans we’d rather not talk about it.
      We’d rather shy away from it, than to acknowledge we were prepared to use 3 nuclear weapons… after ‘bombing them to the stone age’ failed.

      • Forrest ask us to read it. Why is it so important? Does it have a Hidden message? Or did Forrest want to share his heavy heart? Or both.

  10. PDenver

    Thanks SO much. Was exactly the quote I was looking for.

    How do you do it? How can you come up with an exact quote from all of the interviews that ff has made? You MUST have one heck of a system.

    Again, THANKS!


    • Hello JD. You’re quite welcome. Thank you for the complement. Would you believe I have no system? I’m honestly going by memory. I keep telling myself I should write things down in a journal, but I haven’t yet. Believe me, there’s plenty of research I’ve done over the months where I wish I had.

  11. Cholly, Musstag, thanks for your input.
    Lets analyze: It’s known that the WALK from the car to the TC is just a few miles. Getting to that parking spot is up for grabs. There’s no assurance that FF followed the 9 clue poem route to get to the place where he parked the car. The ‘parking spot’ only tells us there is road access within walking distance to the TC. But if you find the TC, you’ll want your car there to haul it out.

    Starting with– each of us comes from somewhere, each of us is likely to be in a car. The BEGIN, by common usage, is close to the WHERE, which is close to WWH… though they may not all be exactly the same pinpoint spot. Think about driving into a site like Norris in Yellowstone, parking, then walking to the boardwalks to view the geysers. So at BEGIN we are, close to WWH, and close to our car. (I’m temporarily eliminating that the WWH is at an airport or train stop, though a water halt for a train is probably accessible by car too.)

    From the BEGIN, how do we get to the PUT IN? We know the direction to go, its down the canyon. And we’re told to TAKE IT, but its too far to walk. So either we drive our car to the PUT IN, or take some other readily available mode of transportation in that direction. (my favorite is a tram or gondola). I suspect we can probably find a road route that takes us down the canyon too.

    Then, just like finding the BEGIN in close proximity to the W & the WWH, somewhere down that to-far-too-walk canyon, we have to find a PUT IN reasonably close/below a HOB. Whether we were able to drive here, or took another form of transportation, we now have a new set of directions that we’re to understand and heed. And… we either have our car with us, or reliable transportation back to where we left it.

    I know, I am breaking this down in a painfully pedestrian way, but I think your gonna have to take your car down most of the legs because you’re going to have to haul that TC out. And if your car is back at the BEGIN … well, you will have to leave the TC in place, and travel back the way you came, and find a car route to the parking spot so you can come back and retrieve the TC. Unless, the your car is already at the parking space and you’ve sorta circled back to it. Capisci?

  12. PDenver – GREAT MEMORY!

    Thanks again.

    OS2 –

    Let’s say, I am driving down a road – I can see where a small stream meets a larger stream or river. I know that the small streams name is Ojo Caliente -( Hot water) and that it flows into the Cold River (All made-up names). This is wwwh.
    I continue driving downstream and see another stream joining my Cold River.

    Just after the new stream joins Cold River there is the “Brown Shack”. A road parallels my new stream, and goes right past the Brown Shack.. I take (put in) this road.

    My New Road leads me to Scary Canyon (No place for the meek) and then on to Treasure Falls.

    I park my car, get out and walk a short distance to Blaze Hill…At the base of Blaze Hill I find the TC.

    I was able to drive the entire trip. – had to walk only a short distance from my car – made two trips in an afternoon, and came away a winner.

    No magic – just lots of good luck.

    Let’s hope that this simple tale is true for although the names have been changed to protect the innocent – the facts are true.

    With luck, I will know this week-end if weather and certain other conditions are favorable.

    Good luck to all on their searches

  13. No fault with that reasoning, JD. You’re using your car the whole distance, and enjoying nature thru the windshield, until the very end. I’m probably overthinking it. I came to my reasoning because I have a perfect HOB that is about 20 miles away from a perfect WWH…. yet no road between them. They’re both out in the wilderness, but not unknown because a few hikers have written about them. On a map, it travels easy, on foot/car, not so much. So… not perfect. Thanks for considering & responding.

    • 20 miles away and no way to get there from the Point of It being 20 miles away?
      And there is no other road from the other side of where ever to get closer? Hmmm if it’s the right place that ff hid the TC, then look quickly down must be a parachute.
      LOL .
      I don’t see It as the spot. ?

    • Well, think about this, about the nine clues, the line, NFBTFTW, (not far…) is that really two clues? It’s first, not far, BUT …. that changed it a lot,
      giving too ways to measure it, so….. two clues IMHO.

  14. I’m 73, so I have to look for the least strenuous “solve”.

    Perfect wwwh’s and hoB’s are hard to come by..

    Good luck with your long hike. Although my hike will
    be short, my old arrhythmic heart will be thankful.


  15. Peter you had stated in the Nine Clues post now closed.

    These are my Nine Clues as I think them to be..
    Stanzas 2 and 3 hold the first eight clues for me and be darn curious to see a consensus on that. And my 9th Clue is,.. (drum roll) the last stanza of the last line, “I give you title to the gold.” Your turn..

    I am trying to help you out here. From what you said & what Forrest said, doesn’t add up unless one of you are wrong.
    I agree with you on the first 8 clues being in the 2nd & 3rd stanzas. That’s how my solve came together.

    Forrest said this:
    How To Find Fenn’s Million-Dollar Treasure. Sept 8 2015
    “I think the problem that searchers make is they don’t dwell long enough on the first clue. If you can’t find the first clue, you don’t have anything. I mean there’s people driving down the street looking for a blaze, because that’s one of the clues.”

    There it is, Forrest said the blaze is one of the clues.
    So you will have to either get rid of your ninth clue or one of the other 8.
    Either way the blaze is in the 4th stanza.
    So hear Forrest all and listen good.

    • I’ll be darn Jake, never heard that one before. But let me say that “I will give you title to the gold,” may be a sub-clue perhaps?

      • “I give you title to the gold”
        Forrest has all the documentation (title), for all the items in the chest including the chest itself. After you find the chest, you will need to go see Forrest to get the cardboard box with hole handles in it with a cardboard cover, to help legitimize your finding.
        It’s pretty straight forward to me. There is no clue here.
        This is all common sense (sorry, uncommon sense) for someone who has thought out everything about what he did in my opinion which is probably fact.

      • I give you title to the gold. There is not the word ‘will’ in the sentence. I also believe that this line holds a clue but not with the extra word in there, so now I am curious about the clue that you see. I thought it was the same as mine but now I’m not sure. Just pondering out loud……

      • RE: “I will give you title to the gold,” may be a sub-clue perhaps?
        Well, some (myself included at one time) considered this to be a pretty obvious clue that the treasure is in Yellowstone (Gold, after all, being a “yellow stone”).

    • I would agree with that Jake,

      You gotta get the first clue and the last, otherwise it’s a nice vacation in the rocky Mountains. But I’m not sure I agree that it is down at the bottom of the hill/mountain. I can’t remember who said that, I was thinking it would be more toward the top. Maybe a measurable distance from the blaze, I was thinking a smart, problem solving, redneck that did not have a computer could use a 100ft tape measure or maybe a two hundred footer. I grew up in CA but lived eight years in a small town in Pa then by choice we moved to another town for another eight years,,,maybe I got what it takes. My wife likes the country as well, so I guess that means I got a Redneck Woman to boot. I like that country song.


  16. @JD I will carry the med bag and the O2. Have you had a catheter ablation? @ Frank, there is no cure for COPD so I guess I will lug the CPAP around. Just try and improve your exercise tolerance before the summer and maybe, just maybe we can all go.

  17. I came across a post, and I cant remember where. Someone mentioned that ff was quoted saying “the TC is located in a half circle of boulders with one or two trees” does this ring a bell with anyone? Thanks

    • no Casey, but that would be very interesting if that were true and the was an audio of it

    • That was not a post Casey, that was you reading my minds vision. But the trees are larger & there are more sproutlings. The half circle is actually a little more than half, maybe 200 degrees. The boulders are not that big, but of course a boulder to you may be a stone to me. There is no bell to ring, they are all in New Mexico. It’s time to take a shower/bath & retire, have a good night.

    • If he said that then Im pretty much set to walk away with that chest in May! All IMO until I go look but if he said that then I think it solidifies my solution… at least in my eyes it does…

  18. Med-evac;

    Yes, three or four years ago I had the catheter ablation – No luck. I will be using a portable O2 concentrator. Problem first diagnosed 11 years ago – should have died. EF 19%. Med = great life now. EF moved up to 48%, but now back down to 35%. Not a LOT of energy, but enough…enough to find the TC I hope!

    Thanks for the offer to carry the med bag.

    I will be with my step-son this week-end.


    • Your a trooper JD,
      I commend your resolve & give you credit for following through your solve.
      Your obviously not in the best of shape considering where you are going.
      I remember your comment about a few weeks ago, so I know you are about 40 miles from my blaze.
      I certainly wouldn’t care if I didn’t find the treasure and didn’t make it back alive. I wouldn’t have anything to worry about if this happened. I just want to enjoy THIS life as if it was my last & nature has always been the calling. What better place to leave your bones? Oh, sorry, your not going alone in there. Have company, will travel.

  19. @JD Those percentages stink. Have you been diagnosed with HF? Are you symptomatic at those levels?

  20. Jake said; “I certainly wouldn’t care if I didn’t find the treasure and didn’t make it back alive. I wouldn’t have anything to worry about if this happened. I just want to enjoy THIS life as if it was my last & nature has always been the calling. What better place to leave your bones?” Amen Jake.
    I would be lying if I said I didn’t care about not finding the treasure. My work contract is up soon and there is nothing on the horizon at the moment, so soon I may just be the person Forrest pictured finding the chest but I don’t have 12 kids, just 5. But we may be living in our truck soon.

  21. Med-evac

    NO HF symptoms at all. Get an echo every 6 months – all good. Yah – %’s not great. Yes a little shortness of breath at about 8K, that is reason for concentrator. Thanks for asking.


  22. med-evac

    Sorry about the job situation. Hope that something comes up. You seem like a very caring individual.

    God speed.


  23. Thank you sir. I believe something will come up. I have to stay positive, but it’s getting hard since I knew this day was coming about a year ago and no job prospects yet. I work in a highly desired industry but I also work in a department where you have to be the best of the best.

  24. Hi, Pdenver.
    I was a little late answering a question that you had asked but I didn’t see it until today. The answer came to me while I was dozing off. It is kinda funny as the real answer is in the first answer that I gave you. Cryptic, I know, but hey, what else is there to do?

  25. Nine clues.
    The 200 footers got 2 right, so they missed …..what…..
    What’s the third clue? What’s the first clue they missed? Not far, did they go too far?

    • Musstag,
      I may be wrong, but I think you combined 2 separate statements.
      1. He knows searchers have been within 200′
      2. Someone got the first 2 clues, but went right past the 3rd.
      IMO, these were 2 different, separate incidents.

      • Take your number 1(within 200ft) in context of this statement “There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty to where I hid the treasure.”, what does that tell you?….. IMO There is a road, bike trail, horse trail, or river within 200 yards of the treasure, aaaaaand he still had to WALK a mile or so twice to hide it.

        • I am not saying you are wrong but does he comment somewhere that he walked more than a mile from his vehicle it may have just been a quarter of a mile with rough terrain making it difficult for a man near 80 to accomplish on one trip

  26. Last summer my wife and I flew over our basic search area and from 30K ft both of us looked down and wondered where, maybe over there? Gotta get back, but not till spring.

  27. Jake –

    You said something to the effect that due to a post I made a couple of weeks ago, you felt that your blaze was within 40 miles of my site. Please email me at SculptorJDA at aol dot com to discuss. I do not feel that I have disclosed enough info for you to come to your conclusion. Would like to know if I have slipped up that much



    • Nevermind JD,
      Your email address is only accepting certain email addresses. Evedently doesn’t like mine. Tried sending one & AOL is one of the worst ISP’s since the bubble burst. Your too old to have AOL, get a real email address. You don’t have to use them because your blood does. You can set a better example by not using them.

      Anyway, you said this:
      JD on February 8, 2016 at 10:26 am said:
      Guess I mis-spoke -…near Gallitin peak in Montana

      I see now, you were referring to an earlier comment.
      Good luck this weekend, but I’m not sure that will help you find the treasure.

  28. The Nine Clues. This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

    1. As I have gone alone in there
    2. And hint of riches new and old.
    3. Begin it where warm waters halt,
    4. And take it in the canyon down,
    5. Not far, but too far to walk.
    6. Put in below the home of Brown.
    7. From there it’s no place for the meek,
    8. Just heavy loads and water high.
    9. If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, Look quickly down, your quest to cease.

      • Hello lender

        I hope you’re not going to the same place as I am! I’ll know in May! I’d like to go before then… but alas…work calls…

        • Hello JohnCena. Searchers are very intelligent and I’m very nervous at this time because I do not know when I can go. I’m trying to convince the family I know where it’s at this time, not like the other times I’ve said, “I know where it’s at!” 🙂

          • Hey pdenver

            Yeah, I’ve been all over looking for wwwh’s and I finally convinced my girl friend that I know where it’s at. And she has said, “We have to go now, because I need closure whether you are right or wrong…” I’d love to take my kids but a 17 hour ride wouldn’t be fun with a 5 month old and seven year old…. since I only have 7 days to get there and search for vacation.

            I almost feel too sure… like my answer is right but I’m missing something… just a few things I haven’t put together…. like is the chest full of gold? Most people belive that but I question it… people ask me, “why search” and I tell them the “Thrill.of the Chase” I almost feel compelled to know if it’s real or not…

          • Hello JohnCena. Everything is real and there’s more than gold in the treasure chest. A seventeen hour drive with kids in the back? It’s still possible if everyone is willing. A backpack filled with activities (coloring book and crayons, storybooks, doll/Matchbox cars, maybe a portable DVD player, etc.) Snacks and drinks are a must. Always did wonders for my six children when they were young while heading for Yellowstone. Also helped when we left early in the morning and the kids slept for a few hours. Hope you have a lot of fun in your chase. 🙂

    • I am surprised at you pdenver,
      You have come a long way of understanding what Forrest has said & applying it to a solve or trying to figure out the clues.
      I had just posted last night about the blaze. I am not sure if you heard what Forrest had to say or maybe just ignoring it.
      How To Find Fenn’s Million-Dollar Treasure. Sept 8 2015

      “I think the problem that searchers make is they don’t dwell long enough on the first clue. If you can’t find the first clue, you don’t have anything. I mean there’s people driving down the street looking for a blaze, because that’s one of the clues.”

      So after hearing this, “blaze” is one of the clues, not:
      9. If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, Look quickly down, your quest to cease.

      I give you credit for being imaginative & agree with some of your clues, but that doesn’t matter.

      You must listen & apply what he says correctly IMO.

      • Hello Jake Faulkler. Don’t be surprised too much. I did read your post and listened to the video yesterday. ‘If you can’t find the first clue, you don’t have anything.’ What if I do believe in my first clue in which I posted? The decisions didn’t come overnight. It took many months of studying for this particular area. I started the chase in August 2014, but only recently started posting. It’s fun to see what others think of my opinions. I keep listening! 🙂

          • Your not the first & wont be the last at misspelling my name.
            Even Google suggests Faulkner all the time.
            My last name spelling is not as important as getting the poem right & it’s message by Forest, I mean Forrest. Just think how many times people have misspelled his last name. 🙂

  29. Pdenver:
    BigSkip here:

    First time in a while I’ve read what I believe FF wants us to do. I “think” you’ve got it, plain and simple. As I’ve suggested, it’s a complicated poem describing a location with as-difficult instructions to get there. Also, IMHO, difficult instructions to get to a very simple place overlooked by many searchers.
    Keep on searching and be careful.

  30. Six stanza,s…. Five have clues but one of them is the joker. The other is straight forward.
    “Life deals you four cards and a joker. You play whether you like it or not”
    Is it Spring yet? 🙂

    • Hello onuat. First four stanzas hold the clues, the fifth is Mr. Fenn’s return from the hiding spot, the sixth is giving invitation to the chase and ownership to the treasure chest. This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

      Time to do my stretches and get ready for Spring! 🙂

  31. Jake –

    Sorry we could not communicate. Most people have NO problem reaching
    me at AOL address. Sorry it did not work.

    My comment, if I recall said something about Blaze Mountain in Montana.

    I used a hypothetical mountain with a blaze, but stipulated that it was NOT
    Blaze Mountain.

    My site is not even in Montana, so I am nowhere near you – IF your site IS
    in Montana.

    Thanks for the tongue-in-cheek well-wish. Hope I can surprise you and
    the rest of the world.


    • JD,
      You said: My site is not even in Montana, so I am nowhere near you – IF your site IS in Montana.

      Jake Faulker on February 7, 2016 at 3:05 pm said:
      So JD, which area are you going to search in?
      Hopefully not the Madison’s, where the high concentration of griz are.
      I know your packing but still risky.

      JD on February 7, 2016 at 3:22 pm said:
      Jake, nope, not the Madison, but you are in the right state.

      So I have to ask you JD. Are you in the right state or were you just stating that I am in the right state?

      • Jake,
        Don’t want to butt in but maybe you jumped to a conclusion, correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t the Madison start in WY?

        • That’s fine JL, you or anyone can but in on conversation anytime. Besides, I do quite often.
          Freedom of speech is a great thing except for the fact that money became freedom of speech by the corrupt few that have plenty of it.

          I do know my geography & what I stated. The quote I pulled from here was from JD, he said Madison. I said Madison’s. There is a huge difference there. JD may have meant Madison County or Madison Junction or Madison whatever. I stated the Madison’s, if you go to the 9 clues #62 archive you will see this.

          If you have a good map, you will see the Madison’s on there labeled as such.

          So, yes, we are all jumping to conclusions……

          Did I mention Madison Valley?

          • I knew a girl once named Madison does that count? yes I noticed your “s” but I hadn’t looked to see if there where any mountain ranges. My map only shows treasure mountain’s. lol

  32. I know that not many people agree with me, but IMHO:

    One sentence = 1 clue. ALL six stanza’s are used, almost every word is used.

    Just my opinion

  33. Someone out there will solve the enigma some day.

    Am sure we each hope that it is the person looking
    back at you in the mirror!

    Good luck to all, all be safe


  34. Jake –

    I now see that the Madison is in both Wyoming and Montana. ff’s references to the Madison were associated with YNP, or so I assumed. Therefore my statement was that if you were referring to the Madison in Wyoming…you were in the right state. IMHO

    My site is in Wyoming, NOT in or near YNP.


    • Hey, JD

      I hope you’re not where I’m headed or you may beat me to it since I can’t go until May…!

      Ugh, May needs to hurry up so I can go see if it’s there!!!!

    • JD said: “My site is … NOT in or near YNP”.
      Good for you!

      How supremely disappointing it would be for FF to tell searchers to use their “imagination” to find the chest, then turn right around and hide it in what is arguably the most unimaginative places, relative to his family experiences as expressed in TTOTC.


      • I guess that depends on your perception?! Maybe Forrest was telling something different in the poem than you are understanding. Everyone usually has a good story or two but that doesn’t mean you can’t have a secret one that’s your favorite shared only between one or two people. A smart fisherman once told me, if you catch a few fish in one spot you tell others, if you catch a lot of fish you tell no one.

    • OK JD,
      Got it now. Your area is pretty far away from where I am going to look. I was wondering why you had stated about no snow being on the ground cause there seems to be about 3 ft of snow in & around my area.

  35. John –

    Doubt that we have the same place in mind, but one never knows.

    email me at SculptorJDA at aol dot com if you want to discuss.

    If I do not find it – Good luck to you in May.


  36. This should make for a bit of fun…..

    Dal — we may want an entire thread for this.

    Poem clue lines may be a plot description from a children’s book. The book is Whispering Sage, Drago 1922. The storyline in Whispering Sage is identical to the poem. The book also contains towns and character names taken from the West Yellowstone area. Further, the book contains a ‘blaze’ or brand image in the center pages. The story resemblance to Fenn’s poem is shocking. Associate clues: “Gone alone in there”, “ treasures bold” “ “It’s what they whisper”, “if you’ve been wise”, etc, etc.

    taking the time to read this is worth the effort.

    • Aw carppp! Now, see what you’ve done….. more stuff to consider. Page 3 and theyre already overlooking a valley with a little town called Paradice… I’m sure ff has read this book…

      • First 4 chapters, a guy named, Blaze, a dry creek, diverting it, flows to a sink hole, ‘contigous,’ paradise, …. it’s in pdf free at , Google it, books name ‘other side’

        • OMG, Blaze finds a kid on a Burros back in the creek with a fishing pole In One hand, and stringer of fish in the other…

          • So, this kid, in the middle of a creek, with a fishing pole in his hand, finds a guy named Blaze….

          • Every single clue line is in the book… including the end “heavy loads and water high”. “It’s not in Nevada” -f brown=(little b = Nevada) Brown (big B= Montana). Paradise Valley, MT is where the warm waters halt in the story. Go down river to “if you’ve been wise-” Find the blaze in the middle of the book, look quickly down into the center of the blaze (arrow)… what do you see?


          • in the book the blaze looks like a w
            wise ( W eyes ?) when you see the w
            look quickly down
            i can keep my treasure where
            ( W here ? ) under the w blaze ?
            i think the book could be used to solve the poem
            good hunting all

    • NO! Please no more books to read, I can’t find the time! lol! Thanks for the tip Chris, very interesting…..

  37. It’s an interesting puzzle. Some searchers say that each of the nine sentences contains one clue. If that is correct, then stanza 1, being one sentence, must contain a clue. I don’t buy the idea that “alone in there” is a clue; it doesn’t help narrow down the location at all. So that leaves a couple of possibilities for a clue in stanza 1.

    In the case of 1 clue per sentence then, WWWH must be the second clue. So if the little girl from wherever got the first 2 clues correct she must have gotten the clue in stanza 1 + WWWH, but was stumped after that. Which suggests that she could not figure out clue 3 … the HOB. I can envision that she located both clue 1 and clue 2 from simply looking at a map. HOB eluded her and she went right past it. On the other hand …

    It may not be true that each of the 9 sentences contain 1 and only 1 clue. In that case, one could argue that stanza 1 contains no clues, rendering the first clue as WWWH. At which point we reach a fork in the proverbial road. Is “canyon down” then clue #2? Or, is “canyon down” part of WWWH?

    It would seem to me that since FF has said there are many WWWH in the Rockies especially north of Santa Fe, that WWWH cannot be the first clue since it would not really narrow down locational options. So that … there has to be a clue in the first stanza to help narrow down WWWH. Yet if that were true, then all nine sentences must contain a clue as well, even the seemingly clueless “The answers I already know, I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak”; what possible clue could be contained in that sentence?

    The only other possibility beyond the two thus mentioned is that there is no pattern to clues to sentences. Some sentences may contain 1 clue each; other sentences may contain multiple clues or no clue at all. This is the pattern I think best fits the distribution of the nine clues within the poem. It’s the easiest and clearest pattern, one that does not force the searcher into an architectural straightjacket. It would also mean that we cannot tell which clue the little girl got stumped on, which is perhaps why FF related the story; he knew he would not be giving too much away.

    All of which is to say that one might want to revisit the rigidity of the 1 clue per sentence option, but at the same time realize that some sentences may indeed contain 1 clue each.


    • IMO,
      Stanza 1 solve gives you a clue, which “points” you in an area to look for WWWH. Stanza 2 (first sentence) solve leads you to the HOB. Stanza 2 (second sentence) solve will send you down the road to a place not for the meek. But i don’t think it leads to the TC just yet.
      I think there is a second level to the poem, where the poem is used as simple directions. but i think you have to solve all the nine clues before you can use the poem like that.
      I’ve only been searching since Dec 2015 so what do i know?
      Happy searching, good luck and be safe.
      PS. if I’m going down a rabbit hole can someone STOP me please 🙂

    • The first sentence is not just “alone in there” it is…
      As I have gone alone in there and with my treasures bold, I can keep my secret where, and hint of riches new and old.
      That could easily be the most important clue to get you to the right area. Like Forest said, people don’t concentrate on a key part. That key part can’t possibly be HOB, WWWH, or the blaze as they are discussed endlessly. So for instance alone in there could mean escorted, where you are supposed to have an escort, especially when connected to “bold” as in brazen or trespassing without and escort. The take “secret” as in top secret like a ICBM silo or a Air Force radar bomb scoring (RBS) range. Forrest might have the insight on that for sure. Now many of those sites are decomissioned. Riches new and old could be an area of old gold mining gone, but say current Uranium or oil mining.
      Not that any of these are right, just that there possibly is the first clue in the first sentence. True you would find the chest bu the 5th clue but you would still be going in order. Clues 6-9 are just helpers that can apply to any point in the steps 1-5 to the chest.
      This is just me playing Devil”s advocate. I’m not convinced either way but am leaning to the simple each sentence is a clue (a key, a pointer), some with smaller clues helping narrow the main clue.

      • I have always believed there was more to the first sentence. It wasnt until last nigh, that I figured out how much more! It took me a while. But I feel confident that I now know why the location was chosen, how the chest was hidden and how to recognize the blaze . That first sentence contains much info.

  38. ken imo – stanza 1 has 1 clue – stanza 2 has 4 clues – stanza 3 has 3 clues – and so on and some stanzas don’t – so I do agree with your way of thinking

    • correction -stanza 2 has 2 – imo its early in the morning need my cup of coffee

  39. Ken;

    I have to disagree with your proposition.
    You say:, “It’s an interesting puzzle. Some searchers say that each of the nine sentences contains one clue. If that is correct, then stanza 1, being one sentence, must contain a clue. I don’t buy the idea that “alone in there” is a clue; it doesn’t help narrow down the location at all. So that leaves a couple of possibilities for a clue in stanza 1”.

    To me, this stanza gives me two pieces of information. 1) “Alone” is a warning to not be observed when I 2) Go IN there to retrieve the TC. I can not just look AT an area, I will need to look IN a specific spot. I will need to go INTO a place.

    Why does the clue HAVE to narrow down the location? If it gives you a warning, or provides information that will be critical later, why isn’t it a clue?

    You then say, “all nine sentences must contain a clue as well, even the seemingly clueless “The answers I already know, I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak” To me this is NOT a clueless set of words. The words may not give directions to a location, but they provided me with information that I thought ff wanted to impart to a searcher.

    I wish that I could elaborate more, but alas I can not without walking you through my solve step-by-step.

    I will be going to my site this week-end. Hopefully, I will then be able to tell you, and the rest of the world why I am a believer in the one sentence = i clue approach.

    Good luck in your search, and be safe.

    • JD, I’ve follow your post and appreciated when you conversed with me. Thank you and a seriously hope you find it, so i can get back to my life. Good luck

    • “Done it tired and now I’m weak” could just mean it’s just 100 yards from the road. He put it there while he was in a weak and tired condition.

      • I believe “done it tired and now Im weak” is tied to the first sentence as well as another sentence. I can now see how they are all directly connected. When you put them together, the big picture comes in to focus.

    • hey JD
      just remember Fenn plainly said it is not in a mine. Do us all a favor, come back in one piece, don’t turn this into another search party fiasco. Oh, good lick

  40. Theycallme9clues:

    The only “Mine” involved is when I claim the TC as mine – I wish! Just a joke


    • JD,
      If you can see the blaze from my house or any house that has a computer using GE, then you will surly be disappointed when you go this weekend as far as finding the treasure goes. But I am sure you will achieve the other treasure in my bold opinion. But is something you must do as most of us do & somethings are obvious to others as they are not obvious to me. I will state you will not find the treasure this week with the solve you have. I will bet you a dollar. It’s an easy 1$ bet. The odds are way against you. Prove me wrong when you come back.

      • Jake,
        make sure you disclose that as earned income if you win, your rich uncle is going to want his part.

        • JL,
          I am hoping he will pay me with pennies, so I can divvy it up amongst the investors. My uncle who is Rich (Dick) owes me many pennies from his lost bets.
          The ninety nine I got from him are framed in my office & he doesn’t go in there anymore. I will frame JD’s right next to them if he accepts the bet & sends them.

    • JD good luck, have fun and search on line for Crow Pie recipes, just in case….it’s okay if you don’t find it….

  41. I have a great recipe for Crow Pie. Hope I do not have to eat any.

    I do not believe I have ever said, “I will find it”. I do believe in my
    solve, but I am also humble enough to realize that I am a “Newbie”
    and I respect those that have put in a lot more time, effort and
    energy than I have.

    I depart with Great Hope, tempered with a dash of humility.

    As I have always tried to say – Best of luck to all in their searches…
    and that all includes me and my son.

    Good luck to all


  42. Jake –

    What makes you so sure that the blaze can not be seen by GE? What has Forrest said that makes you so certain? We each have opinions…opinions
    based on “something”. What is your “something?”

    Good luck to Ya’


    • JD,
      There are a few reasons why I don’t think you would see the blaze with GE.

      1. Our good ole friends at Google would have spotted it first.
      2. I don’t think Forrest would do such a thing considering he has thought of everything.
      3. The images are not good enough quality in detail.
      4. You will have to be there in person to realize & see the blaze.

      But I know your not asking me thinking I will change your mind, so go have fun with your son.

  43. Jake –

    Not to belabor the point, just trying to generate a little discussion. I “HAD” (past tense) considered all of the obvious – Double Omega, Arrowhead, ff in a circle, Owl etc.

    And then…As I worked my way through the clues to the point that I would have expected to put boots on the ground, and gone searching for one of the above smaller “Blazes” – Low and behold, there it was. The most obvious blaze one can imagine. One that “FITS”…and it was BIG too – right in front of my face!

    I still could be wrong, but it is “Just too perfect”. I guess that I will know more
    by Monday.

    Best of luck with you opinion re it being small.


    • JD,
      How long have you been at this?
      I have researched on many members & found one of your first posts in January 3rd of this year. I do my homework in most cases.
      It just seems unlikely for someone to get it right on there first go around. If you do I will go crap myself & get over it.

      The obvious is decided in our minds as what we think is obvious.
      No one else sees it but us.

      The double omega’s? Hmm
      The end is the beginning is the end, like a mirror.

      Arrowhead sent him into a lifetime journey.

      Didn’t read the one about him in a circle, just th T.S. Elliot thing comes to mind & when he said he was talking in circles.
      The owl has nothing to do with being wise.

      There is no such thing as too perfect IMO.

      • Hi Jake, you say the owl has nothing to do with being wise. Do you think that being wise has something to do with an owl?

    • Just suppose the blaze is the giant blaze on Blaze mountain. But the clues lead you to a point where you finally crest a ridge and see it. Say on the ridge above Lowers Falls Creek Lake up Spanish Creek off of the Gallatin River.

  44. JD- I have been with the thrill of the chase for 4 years and I too agree that you can see the blaze from GE- you have come a long way for being a newbie I can tell by your comments – and if you find it or not the most important thing is to go out and spend some time with your son .

    • “I too agree that you can see the blaze from GE.”

      Oh my!

      Pity the poor Texas redneck who does not have access to the internet. Further …

      By scouring GE one could just stumble onto this … thing … that you’ve identified on GE. In that case why are the preceding 12 lines of the poem even needed, since you seem to think that the entire puzzle can be solved by just using GE to find the blaze.

      My impression of FF is that he is not the kind of guy who meant for this to be a stay-at-home puzzle that could be solved by skipping all clues before the “blaze” and simply look for some outline on GE, then go to that spot and retrieve the chest.

      I would be severely disappointed in Forrest Fenn if that’s what he had in mind. And I don’t believe that it is.

      Are we seeing what we wanna see rather than seeing the blaze?

      • I thought GE was language heard along the Iditarod trail. Ha, maybe this is why I’m missing the mark in my pointed opinion.

      • ken -I did not ask for your opinion nor do I want one from you .just because my line of thinking or I see what I see is not up to par with you- does not give you the right to say im wrong – maybe its you that needs to work a little more on your solve and leave mine alone frank

      • Ken, Frank, hunch here.
        tsk tsk tsk, you both wrong because you cant separate chest from treasure chest. the chest is in the treasure chest. two different things. dont pity the redneck from texas, he will find the chest way before either of you without google earth. and the more kids he has the better. true, he will plan his trip to the treasure chest, with a good map. and can walk right down to the chest kids in tow enjoying every minute of it safely.

        self-destruct mode at 30%

        • I vote goofy just go ahead and hit the doomsday button, but what the heck u are some what amusing if I could just decipher what you are saying.IMO

      • IMO Forrest has made it clear that the person that finds it will know where they are going BEFOREHAND…meaning the poem can and SHOULD be solved before an attempt is made. IMO you will still have to go look for the chest, but you will go with confidence…KNOWING that you are in the correct spot. The blaze can ABSOLUTELY be seen on google earth, or a good map for that matter (IMO), and only AFTER you find the blaze, can you even begin to dream of finding the chest. There is ALOT more to be done AFTER the blaze has been located…ALL IS MY OWN OPINION.

  45. JD said: “Why does the clue HAVE to narrow down the location? If it gives you a warning, or provides information that will be critical later, why isn’t it a clue?”

    … because the objective for all searchers is to find the chest, located somewhere in the Rocky Mountains. There is no other point to this puzzle. Until someone finds the chest, any “warning” or other “information that will be critical” is secondary and academic to those of us who are seeking its location.

    The only “critical” question right now is … WHERE is the chest? If a word or phrase or sentence in the poem does not contribute to an answer, then to me, it is not a clue.


  46. Ken –

    I did not stumble on my blaze on GE.

    I worked through the clues step-by-step. I had a Topo of my area. Once I reached a certain point, I noticed my Blaze on my Topo, and things began
    to fit together. I THEN found my Blaze on GE…but only after I had done my
    homework first.

    Am packing not – Off to the “Wood(s)”

    Good luck to all


  47. The last clue is in the first 4 lines of the poem. If you haven’t figured out the other clues, oh well.

    • Hey Will,

      I think that last clue was the first clue I solved because it is the first clue , but I still cannot find the treasure. LOL!

    • will and wind- the first and last clues are in the first two lines IMO. they are much different from each other.

  48. Here’s your nine clues.
    Yes Seeker, the clues are lines, phrases or words you have to figure out what they mean and or where they are.
    It’s a map.

    Begin it where warm waters halt (spot)
    1. Ojo (WY) His bathing spot, very special to him.
    2. Firehole Canyon (—line)
    3. Put in (spot)
    4. From there it’s no place for the meek (—line)
    5. The end is drawing ever nigh (spot —- line) (Acronym in this line)
    6. There’ll be no paddle up your creek (spot — line)
    7. Just heavy loads (spot–line) (homophone here: lodes)
    8. Water high (spot–line of sight)
    9. Blaze (Very special spot) (You can now take a icy cold bath & shower)

    I am confident it’s a map.
    But there is a story to the poem.
    You start out taking a bath in warm water when you are young & at the end of the journey you will have to take a shower in a bath in very cold water when you are older, this is life as we know it. Isn’t it?
    Your effort will be worth the cold.
    Hope this helps……
    Just my opinion.

    • Jake, from StateFarm

      Should we be concerned at all with this last item on the ‘Cheat Sheet’ list?

      ….♦ Q: Did the same 9 clues exist when you were a kid and to your estimation will they still exist in 100 years and 1000 years? “The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years but the geography probably will change before we reach the next millennia.”

      • Yes 9 clues & State Farm?
        Everyone should be very concerned about this statement. Allot of bloggers are ignoring this statement, even considering how to read the poem on this blog as we read now. Oh well.

        Only 8 of my places did exist, so that would be most.
        My 5th place/clue didn’t exist.

        So there, he said it.
        the places the clues refer to did.
        So, that tells me the clues are places & some or one of the places didn’t exist.

      • OK, 9 clues, I get it, Jake from StateFarm, The TV commercial.
        It took me a bit, but I got it now going from past memory. LOL
        Now, let me ask you.
        Do you get this:
        The word that is key in the poem gives you a location that confirms you only need the poem?
        I get it.

  49. Jake:
    Hooray! Glad to read you have put in print what I have been saying: the instructions are in a poem that is difficult to interpret…. It’s just a map. That simple. Further, the TC is closer than you think. All, of course, in my humble opinion.

    • Hello Michael D. I’m a little confused with your post and I’m hoping you’ll be able to explain it to me, please. You’ve said, ‘If you two are serious searchers you should stop talking now!’ When you post, aren’t you a serious searcher? I believe when people post, we’re asking others to listen to what we’re saying which may hold merit to the chase. I’ve read what you’ve had to say in the past posts. Should I have taken you serious or have you given information to throw people off track? I don’t believe this is the case, but your comment confuses me.

      • Sorry Pdenver…I sometimes forget that a sense of humor cannot be “interpreted ” in text….I was simply ribbing you guys cuz your talking “Dangerous intel” that we don’t want to get out “WINK WINK”…Just ignore me….most do.

      • I’m not sure where I was discussing the Yellowstone volcano comments….but it has been pointed out to me that I may have “misinformed” people by “Incorrectly” quoting FF. I did not quote FF, and I certainly don’t want to SOUND like I was quoting FF. All he EVER said about the volcano to my knowledge was shared immediately after my first volcano comment came into question. He has said something to the effect that he doubts the chest would be blown to bits if Yellowstone lake erupted…but trout would be scattered across the country….Then I took a leap of interpretation from that. I apologize if I came across as QUOTING FF…I promise to put these little sguiggly marks called QUOTES if I ever quote FF in the future….and I am beginning to feel a bit over scrutinized of late…so perhaps I will just stick to reading the blog for a while and let all the cerebral vibes soak in for a bit, so I can remember what a “well behaved” blogger sounds like before I go spouting off uncontrollably in the future. I apologize if I persuaded ANYONE to give up on Yellowstone based on my drivel…Please just ignore me as most of my friends do.

  50. FF said find the key word and u will find the treasure..When I review others adventures I have a location where I feel all nine clues fit…The good news is my brother like FF is a fly fisherman and has fished the area since 1990, when I explained to him the nine clues and location he said yes this a beautiful place and where a 80 yr old could hide the treasure..I will tell u this their is a reason why people have walked by it (within 200 – 500 feet) , its because they dont know the key word…Yes u need to follow each clue step by step…and u need to know what the blaze is…but like FF said if u been wise and found the blaze..There is a reason why u dont find the Blaze..yes this area has changed since FF was a boy until he hide the treasure..

    • woody, do you have a reference to your statement that : ff said find the keyword and you will find the treasure?
      I would like to read this in its entirety, i have not seen this statement anywhere before.

          • so in actuality f never made a statement ” find the key word and u will find the treasure..” if I am reading you and Lisa correct the statement does not exist.

          • If he has ever made the statement, ” find the key word and u will find the treasure..”, I am unaware of it.

  51. “Where”?
    Since the first moment I read this poem, the word “where” has bothered me.
    “I can keep my secret where”. It seems like ‘where’ should have been ‘there’ or ‘here’. I don’t see anyone anywhere discussing this word. Does it not bother anyone that the word, ‘where’ is used. I’m certain it means something. I have an idea what, but at this point, I’m not sure.

    I have a couple of choices for home of Brown. This is not my first choice for home of Brown, but it has crossed my mind. Has anyone considered that “home of Brown” might be a reference to Brown ware (native American pottery) I haven’t worked much on this possibility, but it has crossed my mind.

    • Sheri, the ‘where’ doesn’t bother me as much as the gone alone in ‘there’, IMO the “in there” is what the where refers to.

      • I honestly think “gone alone” is connected to “quest to cease”. I really think that choosing the word quest is a reference to a spirit quest. I have been reading about spirit quests and they were intended to be done alone. I see other clues in the poem that point to a spirit quest. The first thing that got me thinking about the poem this way is a response from Forrest. Someone asked him something like, would the place the treasure is be a place to admire (tarry not with marvel gaze). He said he wouldn’t use the word admire. He would use the word respect. That the place the treasure is hidden would be a place that should be respected. I thought of sacred Native American sites and considered whether the hiding place might connect with a sacred site. This is when I realized that spirit quests were done by young “braves” (note word BRAVE in poem). There are actually quite a few words in the poem that could indicate a spirit quest. The last word most people consider to be a clue is “BLAZE”. It has been pointed out that a blaze is often a trail marker or a trail. The end result of a spirit quest is that the young BRAVE finds his PATH (or BLAZE?) If anyone wants to discuss this possibility some more, I am happy to. I have some more thoughts on this being connected to a spirit quest. If it is, then possibly some of my thoughts might help someone out with the clues they have already worked through. Anybody want to pursue this line of thought?

        • I think the spot ff chose has a spiritual value to him but I don’t think it can be tied to anything other then personal. Maybe a place where he went to meditate or reflect but not tied to any cultural affiliation. This is just my opinion and can not be substantiated by anything I know. An intuition mostly.

        • Sheri,
          I had not thought of the poem in that way, but you may very well be on to something. Forrest did say that his church is in the mountains or something similar to that anyway. I think that is one of the most intelligent lines of reasoing that I’ve heard too date. Do you have a solution?


          • I also have been thinking about a “vision quest” and it is done alone in there. They sometimes made a rock and wood bed to lay on. A brave on the wood so to say. The difference I have is this is not the end of the clues but the start. This also helps as going to that place you would have to be bold as it is no-trespassing, private property of the Indian nations they are on. Good news is hopefully you don’t actually have to go there to follow on to the next clue, It just points to where the warm waters halt. That points to the HOB, etc.

    • I considered it but not to much “brown style” pottery north of santa fe, most in in southwestern NM…

    • Sheri, I’ve thought about where/ware a lot. I was a hobby potter many years ago, and that experience also informs an understanding I have of’ home of Brown’. And its strangely supported somewhat by the George Burns comments in TTOTC. I think ff really enjoyed the crafting of art as much as the profitability.

    • i think it means, W here , as placed under the W.
      and wise is. W eyes , use your eyes to see the w blaze
      then look quickly down.
      the blaze in only seen for a short time ? certain time of day / night ?

      those are my 2 key words
      happy hunting

  52. I have something for where and in there its just my opinion but its something you can kick around in your mind a little bit- as I have gone alone in there and with my treasures bold I can keep my secrets where — and hint of treasures new and old in my opinion new and old is a hole

    • I have it as an anagram. Land owned. “And “h” in “t” of riches land owned. = tree, “h” in “t” = three. “And three”.

  53. What if a searcher only has to know what the clues are, and not know what they mean? That would be following the clues precisely, would it not? So to follow the poem precisely is to read it as it was meant to be read. Nothing more, nothing less. This is my opinion and my opinion only. RC.

    • Interesting thought RC, I guess I hase more work to do to improve my reading skills. I will sleep on that one.

    • RC, in that case you describe, IMHO, they would take you to ocean front property in the RM’s.

      • Musstag… property along Pacific or Atlantic creeks perhaps. Cold & Warm oceans. Go in Peace.

        • i looked there, kinda. was part of my second abstract solve involving the continental divide.

  54. Goofy or Dal – where is the “dialogue” 🙂 that Goofy had with Forrest in the Spring of 2013 about what a clue is vs. what a hint is? I have been looking for a while but haven’t been able to locate it yet. Was it on this website or just back and forth through email?

      • Thanks Loco – Maybe that is what it was all about, the “useless clue” and not about f’s interchangeable use of clue and hint. It was back when I wasn’t taking down notes as diligently and I had skipped it as I figured the 9 clues in the poem are all that are really important to me and ultimately lead me to the chest.

        I recall in an interview somewhere, f stated something to the effect that he hadn’t been careful how he used the two words and had used the word “clue” at times when he should have been using the word “hint”. That is another I need to find.

      • Mr Loco, Thanks for the link. It added perspective on how to view hints or a clue. Thanks Goofy for that old dialog, hmmmm a pdf of TFTW, that was a treat, but I must say I like paper books still. Old school I guess.


        • WTH!!….. Yiga, Yiga. what’s up with the “Mr.”???

          Don’t do that!!! I might get the big head and then Goofy would have to push his precious!!! And while we’re at it,… No capital “L”…..Although I AM starting to understand Seeker’s posts better, I’m just a little loco!! 🙂

          LOL!! You’re welcome, Yiga….and Good Luck to Ya!

    • I disagree MD, which is probably good for you…since my judgement has been iffy lately. Time will tell. Good luck to you.

  55. Hello Fellow Searchers, just joined the chase a couple months ago and started following this blog about a week ago. A lot of great minds and ideas floating around. I have a lot of catching up to do lol! Just finished reading both books and started working on my solve that will hopefully lead me to that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. My dilemma is, I know the chest is somewhere on the map from TFTW but do all the clues start and finish in the highlighted area or could the clues start outside and work there way into the highlighted area???

    • JoeKing,

      Your question is one that has been discussed and debated many times over the years. To be honest, no one knows where each clue may start, inside or outside the highlighted area. Plenty of opinions about it though.

      Short answer is that your guess/theory is just as good as anyone else’s.

      Scott W.

      • Scott,

        Thanks for your insight! Being new to the chase, I was unclear if FF might have stated somewhere about if the clues are inside or out of the highlighted area.

    • What do ya know Joe?
      If you’re prone to occasional headaches… the lottery may suit you better. If you’re really determined, you should go way back & start at the front.

      There’s only 63 back issues under the ‘Nine Clues Archive’ category
      ….I find it helps to right click and save each page under “favorites”
      BTW, ignore all past comments from searchers claiming they know where it is, no one has found it yet.

      • 9clues,

        Tried the lotto a couple time but wasn’t as lucky as I thought I was. Lol Plus its the thrill of the chase that has me hooked. Thanks for the tips, seems like I have a lot of reading ahead of me. Yeah, from looking through the archives there’s at least a dozen or so who have already found it, dang! Lol Guess ill go buy my lotto ticket

  56. All,
    With respect to “have you considered the ‘what ifs’?”
    Here are eight variations on the theme.
    (This location was chosen because they relate directly to some of the 9 clues.)

    What if the canyons have no path?
    What if the home fires glow?
    What if the meek are also brave?
    What if the end is slow?

    What if your creek is full of stones?
    What if the loads have eyes?
    What if the water is not deep?
    What if you pass the prize?

    “Have flashlight, will travel”

          • cluesfromphilly,
            I believe that numerous individuals have written books about their figurative solutions to the quest, where there may not be real water, or real canyons, or a real chest.
            As for me, I am continuing to develop a literal, hemibel-based, recursive, and precise solution to the quest, but I won’t know for sure if my favorite WWWH is correct, unless it someday leads to the chest.
            “Have flashlight, will travel”

    • What if’s. After giving this some thought, and reviewing other “weekly words”, I have concluded that it is not a helpful clue, or a clue at all.

      I think it’s “What if I HAD stayed in the Laotian jungle.” and subsequent reflections on how f’s life wound up as blessed as it was.

      • Joseph, I have spent considerable time on this myself and I’m not sure it is a clue as much as a message. If so who ever reads it that knows what HOD stands for then would understand the message. HOD would appear to be referring to a location, the same as HOB. Two totally different locations.Maybe it is obscure to give something else to think about.IMO

        • It’s this website. Home of Dal. Go to others adventures, read the last part of a part III post by Cynthia,IMHO.

        • I was thinking “Heart of Darkness”–a novel about a man (Marlow) venturing into the Congo to “fire” a renegade ivory trader (Kurtz), who had “lost it” and was playing god for the natives. Pretty famous book; it was adapted for “Apocalypse Now”.

          I’m thinking if that was the book it may have triggered memories of the Laotian jungle, and f’s brief (I presume) consideration of just staying in the jungle. What if? and how the wonderful life he got to enjoy would have never happened.

    • Woody,
      I visit Treasure Valley frequently, and even visited hoA (home of Aggies) during a recent springtime. If you are interested in bouncing ideas off someone (my feedback costs nothing, and is worth the price), gmail me. (I’ll bet you can guess my gmail address. Be patient; I’m not always in coverage.)
      “Have flashlight, will travel”

  57. Hey does anyone know that slang expression the Military used for the enemies in Vietnam? I don’t have my books right now.

    • I’m sure this will get censored by Goofy like some of my other posted due to our society being too PC but i’ll respond anyways.

      Slang words: Gook , Viet Con VC, NVC…

  58. I guess I am just getting old.

    I can not make sense out of ff last weekly post,
    “*After reading HOD I am prompted to ask, have you considered the “what ifs?”

    What the heck is HOD? What are the “What If’s” he is referring to?

    I found an old song “Hands of Death” – lyrics did not match the “What If’s” mentioned.

    Can anyone shed some light into my darkened brain?

    • Hello JD. Many would consider “HOD” to mean “Home of Dal.” As for the “What ifs?”, it certainly has people thinking and trying to figure out what Mr. Fenn means. 🙂

        • The precedent for using “HOD” to mean Home Of Dal was set on the ChaseChat site, therefore, some believe ff is referring to the “What Ifs” on that site. I don’t think so.

          colokidd ΩΩ

    • JD, it’s anyone’s guess what Forrest truly meant. One avenue I explored was HOD being the Hebrew alphabet. I have no idea what “if’s” Forrest was speaking of.

    • It could be an acronym (IFS) Initial Flight Screening, flight screening used as a prerequisite for Air Force Flight School.

      “What Initial Flight Screening?” Forrest has a video about this here:

  59. HOD is (IMO) “Home Of Dal” like most people have mentioned. I believe when he says “I am prompted to ask, have you considered the ‘What if’s’?”, I believe he is speaking to each of us indirectly because he has the chance to read our written thoughts and solutions to his poem. He is trying to get each one of us to review our solutions, perhaps getting us to second-guess ourselves. Who knows. There is no real answer to this (IMO). We all have our “what if’s” that can answer him, but I think ol’ FF wrote that just to get our blood pumping. It’s like sharks responding to blood, FF writes “Hi. How are you?” …and we come chomping looking for clues and hidden meanings, when all he wanted to do was say “Hi”.

    • @all,
      What if HOB means home of brown cover. And what is beneath the brown cover? (under covers of ttotc of course). Po: You need to look within, grasshopper. Grasshopper: Yes Master, but I have a headache.

      • regarding prior comment, it included a tiny bit of humor that would be lost unless you had been following this thread.

        @JeremyP: I went back to the heuristics wikipedia page and what do I find at the bottom of the page? Another link explaining why some of us get headaches around here. I love the title and it tells it all about my headaches sometimes.

        • Haha, that’s great.

          I think that’s directly related. There’s too many “what ifs” to consider. Consider, for one, what were asked to do in this treasure hunt. We’re tasked with trying to figure out what square foot of the entire US Rocky Mountains holds the 10″ x 10″ box. I tried to figure out how that compared to the Powerball odds back when it was so high, and it far eclipsed it. The chances are ridiculously slim.

          But there’s clues!

          That helps a lot, but only if you can figure out what they are and where they lead. I’m trying, but it’s mostly guessing. I think that’s the first hurdle anyone looking for Forrest Fenn’s stash has to get over — it’s just guessing. If you’re OK with that, then maybe you can try to “guess better”.

          I don’t have the time to pick apart everyone’s solution to Forrest Fenn’s puzzle, but I can say with a reasonable degree of confidence that anyone who says they are certain they’ve figured it out doesn’t really understand what the definition of certainty is. All anyone can do is hazard a guess. Some guesses I’ve seen are better than others.

          That’s why I’m interested in heuristics. It permits guessing and even offers suggestions on how to guess better.

          I do think there’s some things you can reason out to a fair degree of certainty, but they are few and far between. Since we’re on the topic of “nine clues”, I can say that I’ve decided that I’m pretty sure the nine sentences are the nine clues that Forrest Fenn wrote about. That’s the only thing I’m pretty confident on, and that, if I’m honest with myself, is completely just a guess.

          • Hey Jeremy P

            Remember “hear me all and listen good”
            Paraphrasing here, don’t let logic distract you from the poem.

            But on the topic of logic

            First before you can even begin deciding if the poem will lead you to a bronze chest with gold the actual first hurdle would be to decide that Forrest had told the truth that he hid a box with gold and etc… The best question is why should we believe him? Why do you have faith that he’s telling the truth? (Not saying he’s not, I believe he did)
            I don’t think guessing will get you anywhere, that’s like throwing darts at a map of the Rockies…because if we have indeed decided that Forrest has put out a set of clues that will indeed lead us to the box then they must be there somewhere… all we can do is work through the wrong possibilities until we find the correct solution! You are still correct in your argument that everyone is guessing until one person holds the box (if that’s even possible).

          • @JohnCena… “…the actual first hurdle would be to decide that Forrest had told the truth that he hid a box with gold…”.

            I never understood why some find that a hurdle.

            “Did Forrest tell the truth that he hid a box of gold?” That barrier is actually really easy to overcome. Assume that he did. Done.

            Freed of that barrier, you can start asking smaller questions, solve smaller problems.

            I don’t think you start with these big, broad questions. You simply skip them. Then, if you can work out some smaller questions, you’ve already done all the work needed to answer bigger questions like that with a degree of confidence.

            If enough smaller questions pan out, it’d be weird (Law of Parsimony) if he didn’t hide it. Make sense?

          • “Law of Parsimony” Jeremy my dictionary is gonna be worn out if you keep it up!f I love it. Would it be fair to say random is opposite parsimony? Similar to wall street lingo Random Walk down wall street vs predictable behavior behind the tape.

        • I don’t think you can ever think too much! I’m only 30 but I feel sometimes I don’t think enough… Some of my friends have told me I’d be a great philosopher because I try and rationalize the irrational… like God, Aliens and Physics (quantum mechanics) All very real enigmas and all very real possibillities and all of them at best theories….Intruging enough I’d try and find a solution to quantify all three together… I know absurd…but people would tell you I’m an oddball and have a weird way of thinking…

      • I have been trying to locate a recent comment by f saying along the lines of “No (name of someone) there are no hints on that page or in that picture”

          • Uke(one)=1@all

            Uke now, (one) from early on 2013? . Made note of changing handle then. I reestablished my account hoping to avoid the then subscription failures. So you will see uken2it on this site, (one) elsewhere I have not updated.

            Anyway if I find where I heard something like “no clues on that page” I’ll let you know.

        • Hello uken2it. Mr. Fenn has recently started to comment on “Odds and Ends” and Scrapbook One Hundred Fifty One. I don’t recall hearing this statement from him. You have me curious now. Do you recall if it was on Dal’s website or Jenny’s? I’ll try to see if I can locate it, but it may take me a while.

          • It seems like I read this also, I think it is on the MW website but I am not for sure.

          • Hello JL. I’m thinking it’s on Jenny’s site, too. Someone asked Jenny who chose the picture(s) on her blog for the Featured Question(s), whether it was she or Mr. Fenn. They had wondered if the picture(s) may have held some hints or clues. Jenny explained it was she who chooses them, unless otherwise stated.

          • Pdenver,
            You are a kind one. If I can be more certain I will let you know. I have a bit of memory deficit and things clear one minute can slip away. I seem to recall hearing f answering someone asking about clues that might be on a particular page, but I may have ‘read, it on who knows where, f emails, SB, nine clues or ?? I do recall that one page was ruled out to having a hint/clue. I hope I haven’t started dreaming about all this, but don’t think so.

          • pdenver,
            I believe it was about a scrap book page and it is in one of Jenny’s 6 questions with f. I can look tomorrow if I have time and see if I can find it.

          • JL/PDenver
            I have looked at six Questions/one Question and will redouble my efforts since you all are trying also. I hope it wasn’t a dream, if it was it would be my first chase related dream.

          • Hello uken2it and JL. Good morning. Going to do more searching on the blogs today. I started looking last night, but couldn’t find anything just yet. Thank you for your help. 🙂

          • Good morning pdenver, you seem so kind and fun. If you are in Denver and would like to kick around Colorado this summer, me and my twins would welcome your company!

          • I will check videos today. It seems I might have heard this rather read it but you al, fall things so well I can’t imagine how something like this would have passed unnoticed. Color me puzzled.

          • Hello uken2it and twingem.

            uken2it, chase dreams can be fun. We’ll see if we can find this information for you. If it was a dream, then you know there’s people who care about you and your success. 🙂

            twingem, thank you so much for your kind words and complement. I truly do appreciate them. Your invitation is quite inviting. Thank you for your offer. 🙂

          • pdenver and uken2it,
            I have looked in MW 6 clues with no luck, also f gets mail here at Dal’s. It is either in one of the scrapbooks or an interview I’m thinking.i am out of time, my wife gave me a puppy for my birthday ang she is keeping me way busy, the puppy that is, but sometimes the wife also.

          • Hello JL. Thank you for your. I’ve looked at the questions, too. There were things said about scrapbooks, vignettes, etc., but it wasn’t it. I’ll see what I can do today. Have fun with your puppy. 🙂

          • Hello JL. My mind was going quicker than my fingers and I didn’t proofread before sending. I meant to say:

            ‘Thank you for your help.’ 🙂

        • Hello uken2it. I read all of Mr. Fenn’s comments from the current Scrapbook going back to January 2015 Scrapbook and I did not find the quote you are searching. I’ll try to keep going back, but it isn’t looking too promising, especially if this is a current comment he made.

          • You guyz are still looking for ghosts?
            The quote doesn’t exist.
            The closest quote by Forrest was about the video not any page or picture & most of us know about that video.
            “That video didn’t have any clues.”
            So why did the chest gain weight?

          • Jake, since you know everything ever said about the chase I must let it go, not on your word. It is on the back burner though. If I find it I will be sure to let you know. I be you $1,000 that I find it. Rules are the contest doesn’t end until I prove it. I am a SA i guess, oh yeah what was so Important about an S & A folks? I recall a canine or two discussing this.

            Oh yeah, the chest weighs more because:
            1- All the BS we are throwing its way
            2- It has bulked up its intercostal muscles laughing at us

          • pdenver,
            thank you for trying so diligently. I would let it go for now. I will share the info if I find it. As stated a few months ago it may have been a quote from another searcher. I have searched chase chat and mysterious also.

  60. Haha… what ifs indeed… but hey, I’m not a genius, I’m not a notary, nor am I a lawyer; I’m not Italian, and I’m not a baritone.

  61. Thanks to those that responded – “Home of Dal” makes a lot of sense.

    “What If” it’s “Home of Daffy” – OOPS sorry Goofy

  62. I guess that my biggest “What If” would be…

    What if I find the Treasure? How will I be able to pay the taxes without selling off some of the treasure? How sad that would be, to break up the treasure!

    What If I find it, but do not tell the world? Could I get away with that? To what advantage?

    What If there are additional instructions in the TC that limit what I can do with it?

    All interesting “What If’s”, that I have no answers to.

    Just food for thought.


    • JD,

      I believe that if you are a good salesman and can market the treasure you may never have to sell it. You could play “Monopoly” with just the revenue and never have to reveal the location thus avoiding both legalities of its location and the IRS. I believe it is what Fenn would do.

      My first response to reporters asking me where the chest was located would be, “let me show you a poem that if followed precisely….”

    • Hi JD, I don’t think you would owe taxes unless you sell. I could be wrong though, and try not to count your chickens before they hatch lol, that’s my chest your talking about. 😉

    • JD – my reading of the law on such matters is that you would need to include in ordinary income the value of the treasure on the day that you found it. So yes, there would be a sizeable tax bill if the public ever became aware that you had found it. The precedent case for this is a couple that found a bunch of cash in a piano. After reading about it, it seems pretty certain to me that the value of the find is taxable. If you subsequently sold the chest and/or its contents, you would have a capital gain or loss on the difference between the value of the contents at the time you found the chest and the price for which you sold those contents. I’m not an attorney, but that is my take on it all.

      It does seem like there are opportunities to market the find, though, like someone suggested. You may be able to generate enough income to offset the taxes on the find as well as the taxes on that additional income. Or, if you thought it would be a shame to break it up, maybe there’s a wealthy collector or museum that would buy it and keep it intact. Then maybe at least you could visit it?

      As for me, the most coveted possession is the chest itself. That beauty would look great on the mantle and oh, the stories you could tell. I can almost imagine the nights of moderate to excessive consumption, blathering on with stories until my guests’ eyes rolled over. But any collector or museum would likely want the original. Then again, Mr. Fenn does own a foundry….

    • JD, just post the autobiography. If f can validate, hey, you could just say lucky guess. But, I’m sure we would all believe. I’m sure everyone has found money on the street, maybe not $2,000,000.00, but point being, did you claim it on your taxes? Why not? I’m sure if you are smart enough to solve the poem and find the chest, you’re smart enough to find a way to get by the taxes.
      With so many before saying they found the chest then lost it, since they found it, why not go after them for the value? They lost it, oh well, still need to pay taxes. From the time you find it, you’ve just increased your income. Have to pay taxes, so why don’t the sooo many that have found this thing not paid? Proof is in the “woods”, or pudding:)

  63. Thanks LiterateOne;

    I appreciate your response. I hope (as does every searcher) that this is a problem that I will one day have to tackle.

    How can one “tell the world” that the treasure has been found, and not reveal WHERE it was found? Even if the “finder” has pictures, how can he “prove” that he has found it without letting the IRS know?

    All very complicated!


    • JD,

      What i will do when I locate the treasure is first prove this to Forrest. Then its location will be a secret between he and I. I will then go public with the treasure being found (to spare us all) but I DO NOT have to reveal where I found it. I mean what does one really gain by revealing the location the treasure anyway? Since I am a salesman and a good marketer I will use my imagination to generate an income without physically selling the treasure thus never having to pay the IRS. So I achieve both avoiding the IRS and any legalities surronding the potential location of the treasure. And maybe I let it sit in my home town museum, the Buffalo Bill Center of the West, and possibly the Smithsonian (wink).

      Hope this makes sense.

      • Hey litterateone
        I’m assuming here, but I’m going to assume this will be similar to this situation here.
        For instance if you buy an asset at some price and it appreciates over time you won’t pay taxes on the appreciation until you sell said asset…or I believe what they call capital gains.

        My assumption is this treasure will fall under that category… since you paid 0 dollars and determining a “value” on this chest will be nearly impossible I’d say it would be like an asset that you wouldn’t pay taxes on until you sell for capital gains… because how is the IRS going to value this? Just the contents??? Who knows what that box would bring at auction if left intact…

      • hi my name is inkling.
        im in fifthgrade at glenn livigston school in cody wyoming.
        im hunch’s niece.
        im in computer science class and my teacher mrs. learner is helping me.
        im 10 years old
        im telling litterateone that my uncle hunch took me to the museum and showed me the box.
        im not saying anything about it because uncle hunch told me not to.
        our class went on a field trip there.
        there’s rabbits outside but you cant pet them.

        • “Alice had begun to think that very few things indeed were really impossible.”
          ― Lewis Carroll, Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland

  64. JD do you own physical Gold? When you sell to Gold shop you dont pay taxes… I think it would be fun and hide it in my favorite place

  65. I’m beginning to think that the “what if’s” statement is just Forrest rolling over a log to see whats under there, well whats under that log is all us searchers now scurrying about trying to figure out what just happened.

  66. I know some of yall know the comments and stuff that Fenn says. The best practice that I feel I have got from this chase, in regards to finding answers and hints, was to learn and know everything that Fenn says. Whenever I am actively seeking clues and hints online, I always look over what Fenn says. I think everything he says is very important, and alot of the time, it seems that he has a double meaning in the words that he chooses. If you think you are struggling or behind in the chase, then I would go back and spend a couple of hours reading every SB and watching/listening to all the interviews that fenn has given. It is amazing how many contradictions you will find, that seem completely fixed or predetermined. That has helped me alot when sorting things out. Find the source directly and know it. That way you dont have to deal with the Chinese Whispers, and get thrown into another fantasy. 🙂

    • I looked at this aspect. warm waters halt, being Indian/Calvary battle fields. Warm blood turns cold or warm blood stops. Notice i said stop not halt. Nez Pres Indians from MT through YS to almost the border of Canada. I also looked at other Indian tribes that had been decimated. How cruel, what such horrible acts. I’m glad my people were still in Italy. 🙂 Anyway, my goal is to connect the first stanza to WWWH, and the connection to Indian battlefields has not been made.

      • I have wondered about connections to Indian battlefields. It seems to me that “Ive done it tired and now I’m weak” is similar to the wording of the Nez Perce Chief Joseph when he surrended. And in fact, his surrender quite literally gave the white man title to the gold on Nez Perce land.

        • That was a great connection for me too (Nez Perce surrender), Can you imagine moving his people (North) down that canyon, with just a few warriors hanging back to slow the army down. They almost made it to Canada. so sad. (Off soap box), And that’s where my connections stopped. Could not link any area from where they started west of Montana(Idaho?) through YS and north.

  67. Karina check out paradise mt. Take it down to arrow mountain ( the blaze in the book) and sage creek. Amazing coincidences on that book! I’m not saying it’s the solve but it should be!

    • @Chris, I read the book ‘Whispering Sage’ that you had mentioned and really enjoyed it. Interesting how there were telephones and automobiles were just starting to show up back then…the flood in the story sort of reminded me of the Folsom flood that occurred years ago in New Mexico and the story about that and the phone operator….anyhow thanks for the tip on that book. I can imagine a young Forest reading that book as a kid. IMO

  68. LiterateOne

    The 1st sentence of the next-to-last paragraph says, “The river distance was about 10 miles…” and the last sentence of the preface says, “For me now, it’s just too far to walk.”

    I am not sure how much clearer he could be. “Too far to walk = 10 miles”

    Am I missing something? I don’t think so.

    Good luck in your search and BE SAFE


  69. The following is my opinion.
    If the 9 sentences are the 9 clues, then and only then, ” Put in below the home of Brown”, is the third clue. If the clues start with, “Begin it where warm waters halt”,then, and only then, “Not far, but too far to walk” is the third clue

    The only way someone can follow the clues precisely is for everyone to agree what the 9 clues are before anything. Please look precisely on your dictionary. It means to be exact, without room for vagueness. It has nothing with guessing, or opinions. It is what it is. If I say to anyone to read the word floor, they will say floor. And floor is what floor is. Now, if ” Put in below the home of Brown” is the third clue, what does it mean? I mean the whole sentence, not just ” the home of Brown”. RC.

    • This assumes the first clue is the first sentence I presume? How can we say that for sure.? What if the first clue is the first sentence in the fifth stanza, and consecutive goes from there until you get back to the end of the 4th stanza…If I have taken the chest and gone in peace, what the heck do I need the rest of the poem for? Filler? Epilogue? Conclusion? Nah…dangerous imo to assume the first clue is wwwh or the first sentence. That being said, I agree 9 sentences = 9 clues…you just have to know where to start…

  70. RC you say, “The only way someone can follow the clues precisely is for everyone to agree what the 9 clues are before anything.”

    I was not aware that the purpose of this blog was to come up with a consensus opinion as to what every clue is and means, and then to develop a consensus opinion as to what the correct solution to the puzzle is.

    Each of us MUST come to our OWN conclusions as to what the nine clues are, and what each word in the poem means. This is an INDIVIDUAL endeavor. We each seek the support and encouragement of other bloggers…that is why we are here.

    Unless I am wrong, the purpose of the blog is NOT to come up with a “One solution fits all” approach

    This of course is Just My Opinion.

    Good luck on your search, and BE SAFE


    • @JD I do not think I made myself understood. Here it is:

      If I told my kids to follow my directions exactly, then and only then they could watch their favorite show. So I say,” go clean the dishes, dry them clean with the yellow cloth, brush your teeth, and take a shower. They would have to do exactly what that says. I see searchers, and researchers do what they want with the poem, and do not follow it exactly. Well,to follow the poem precisely is to read it as it was meant to be read, and without looking for any clues, then and only then, one can understand where to begin. My opinion only. RC.

  71. JD<

    I have read that and heard it from Forrest himself but what we are missing from this statement in my opinion (i'm tired of saying that Goofy) is that the distance is no less than 10 miles but could be any distance greater than 10 miles. Keep in mind he said in his book (release in 2013 when he was 83) "for me now, it's just too far to walk" key word being "now" also remember he and Donnie walked the 91 miles from West Yellowstone to Bozeman of course when i assume they were teens.

    So to sum it allup i take it as the distance from "And take it in the canyon down" to "Put in below the home of Brown" should be no less than 10 miles up to X miles.

  72. I may just be trying to force the clue to fit my solve, but here it is:
    Look quickly down==sunset

    =Sunset Rapids=

    This site is on the northside of the confluence of the Rio Pueblo de Taos and the Rio Grande, on the Rio Grande. North of Pilar, NM.
    It also fits the poems “no paddle up your creek, just heavy loads and water high”…IMO

    • So, IMHO, you are saying implying that the water is so hi, that a seaplane can’t take off?

  73. RC

    Sorry if I misunderstood.


    Good point. I see your logic. IMO the 10 miles is a more-than-good place to start. I doubt that any solution when measureing the distance between wwwh and hoB will be exactly 10 miles, but I am willing to bet that the final solve will be pretty darn close…I know that a solve I am working on measures 10 miles by car, or 11.3 miles by boat.

    Good luck with your searches, good luck to all, and STAY SAFE


  74. Help me find something…. please (didn’t know where to post it)
    Somewhere i saw a picture of a “purple” horseshoe. The text associated with the picture was,
    “Do you know what kind of Omega, I mean shoe this is? Knowing what that color is call and how the texture came to be known as Laghsen will help you find the treasure. Or not!”
    I thought it was part of the Scrapbook but i cant find it again. I’ve researched it and it gives ME a good hint on the Blaze.

  75. yes laghusen
    he was a geologist i think
    but what he has to do with a lilac burro shoe i dont know ?
    maybe rocks near the treasure are that color, and texture
    but what is the texture ?

    • I’m pretty sure that that particular post was just Dal messing around. Perhaps he should clarify this for those new to the chase.

      I went back and read the comments. Saw one asking if the post was his of Fenn’s. There was a reply from one person indicating it was Dal’s post.

      Scott W.

  76. On whether on can solve some or all of the clues from the comfort of their home I found this quote that seems to me to imply poem before maps in locating a special spot. IMO and I do see how one could argue otherwise.

    ”What I didn’t expect was the number of people who immediately started searching maps and using Google Earth to locate their special spots.” ff [Six Questions with Forrest Fenn @ Mysterious Writings]

    • According to Forrest, the little girl in India can work out at least two, just with a map of the Rockies and the English language.

      Haven’t seen her mentioned in awhile.

      Did everyone forget The Little Girl From India Problem? 🙂

  77. What scares me the most is that Stanza 1 and 4 seem to offer no hints or clues…Is there something there that I am overlooking? I have no clue. The rest to me IMHO seems to be a piece of cake…All nine clues accounted for IMHO, that scares me even more…

  78. There are nine sentences and there are nine clues.

    “There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil,
    but it is risky to discount any of them. f”

  79. Literate One;

    I totally agree with you, “There are nine sentences and there are nine clues. ”

    I also very much agree with Forrest, ““There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them. f”

    Tomorrow morning I will be off to my site, I hope for the last time. I will know then, for sure, if what I have said above is true.

    Good luck to all on their searches and STAY SAFE


  80. Back from my quest – None the richer.

    Too much ice and snow. More confident than ever, but must wait
    three or four more weeks.

    Good luck to all searchers, and STAY SAFE!!!


  81. If the chest is 5″ tall and was placed on the ground by F, and there is 6″ of snow on the ground, then you have just wasted a whole afternoon. IMHO

  82. Ok I have been away for awhile. Has Vox or RC picked up the chest yet? I know over the winter they were both claiming they knew exactly where it was.

  83. Gregarious, read vox’s comment. He got stuck going on a search, and had to abandon it. I’m not positive, but I think RC had to postpone his search for a later date. But double check with him, I don’t want to give bad information. The Rockies are thawing quickly, except in Colorado course. My site will be a muddy mess in another two to three weeks.

  84. By the way, I’m no flatlander. I came prepared for what I might encounter. I have a four-wheel drive, and chained up all four tires. My mistake was trying to cross that drift. The snow has that spring Crunch at the top but is light and fluffy underneath. So if you break through you go all the way to the bottom. I came prepared knowing I could get stuck. I had a shovel a pry bar and an axe. I also let someone know where I would be and that if they did not hear from me by a certain time to call the sheriff. I had warm clothes and sleeping bags along with food and water at my vehicle. I take the Rocky Mountains seriously. I was born and raised in them and know what they are capable of. Be safe folks, the Rockies are no place for inexperience, especially in the winter or early spring. Always tell someone exactly where you are going, and when to expect you back. If there’s no cell service, arrange for a time to call and stick with it no matter what. This way the cavalry can come if you aren’t heard from at the arranged time.

    • I know SOMEONE that needs to listen to Mike…definitely call to check in with loved ones, especially if you’re going alone or not planning on telling anyone exactly where you’re going. Which I think is dumb. Even if you tell your neighbor down the street, tell someone.

      Being “safe” and “careful” with your knowledge isn’t worth dying over.

  85. It is my opinion that the first clue will guide a person to the second clue, and the second clue to the third. It is my belief that clues tend to overlap, and that’s why they get progressively easier.RC.

  86. If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,

    Socrates was illiterate and knew he lacked wisdom so he went around town asking people questions with the intent of showing them they really didn’t know what they thought they knew, they were wise in their own mind. He was wise because he knew he wasn’t.

    Oh, he was executed for refusing to cease asking questions around town.

    So if you’ve been wise, you know you are not wise.
    If you’ve been unwise and found the blaze,

  87. We all should look in the spirit mirror of life, not the mirror of the wavelengths our eyes can interpret, but the wavelengths our eyes miss. Our spirit mirror reflects who we really are.

    • “not the mirror of the wavelengths our eyes can interpret, but the wavelengths our eyes miss.”
      Our eyes miss the color indigo, it is our third eye that can see the 4th primary color, or so I’ve read.

  88. Putting together more pieces of the puzzle contained in the poem.

    I have mentioned recently that I thought the poem was a metaphor. I have to correct myself here because I got my metaphors and similes mixed up. The poem begins with the word “As”. I believe this is a hint that the poem is a SIMILE, a comparison of two or more things using the words like or as.

    I believe that Stanza 1 is introducing us to the idea of a Simile and hinting at what two or more things are being compared.

    I firmly believe that the poem is comparing Forrest’s hiding of the treasure to a historical event. I’ve mentioned Chief Joseph’s surrender in previous posts, but I no longer think that is the correct historical event.

    Analyzing Stanza 1. I firmly believe that each of the four lines in Stanza 1 are speaking about both the historical event as well as Forrest and the treasure.

    Analyzing Stanza 5 & 6. I just as firmly believe that Stanza 5 & 6 are a continuation of the simile. I think all 6 Stanzas hint at the simile but Stanza 1, 5, 6 are much more clear about it.

    Now I feel certain that I have identified the historical event and the location it took place by studying the hints in all 6 Stanzas that compare the event to Forrest and the treasure, as well as studying the the directional clues that guide us along to find the treasure. I have some pretty good historical evidence that I’m on the right track in the location as well as the event. I’m not going to disclose the evidence at this point.

    But I would like to refer you to this website, and some comments by FF himself which I believe to be confirmation that I’m on the right track. I was actually looking for something else when I dug up this page. Wondering if the bracelet itself was tied to the historical event. But, what I discovered was fascinating.

    The following was written by FF.

    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    The Dragon Bracelet…
    by forrest fenn (


    “When Don Johnson asked a question on this blog about a coat bracelet that adorns the treasure chest, I decided to write something here that might help quench his curiosity.”

    Speaking of Eric Sloane, Forrest said, ” he was a dichotomy”

    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    This line from FF, IT IS NECESSARY FOR ME TO REMEMBER THAT EACH PIECE REPRESENTS WHO WE ONCE WERE IN A TIME THAT USED TO BE. Clearly FF feels it is important to remember the past through his treasures. And, I believe that he is comparing his own journey in life to the journey of someone else that lived long ago. I believe I know who.

    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    Notice the further discussion by FF as to how he obtained the bracelet from his friend Eric Sloane. I know that there are people who believe Eric is important to the chase and I’ve read that some believe there are clues in Eric’s work. I don’t believe there are clues in Eric’s work. But, I think FF’s feelings about Eric are what is important here. I noticed a word I didn’t recognize in the following statement. Speaking of Eric Sloane, Forrest said, “he was a dichotomy”. A what? I had no idea what a dichotomy was. So I googled it. Here is what I came up with.

    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    di·chot·o·my (dī-kŏt′ə-mē)
    n. pl. di·chot·o·mies
    from the Greek dichotomia

    A division into two contrasting things or parts

    A dichotomy is a partition of a whole (or a set) into two parts (subsets). In other words, this couple of parts must be

    jointly exhaustive: everything must belong to one part or the other, and
    mutually exclusive: nothing can belong simultaneously to both parts.

    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    I assume some of the rest of you have also discovered that there is some dichotomy going on in this poem. FF likes dichotomy.

    I firmly believe that FF is using dichotomy to compare opposites in this poem. He does it boldly in Stanza 2.

    I also have found that visual dichotomy (I assume that is what you call it), is used in the giving of the clues that must be passed in order to find the treasure. Dichotomy is important in the clues. It is confirmation that I am on the right track. Most of the dichotomy is subtle and tricky to see.

    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    I assume that most of you have noticed that Stanza 2 is the only Stanza in which two of the lines don’t really rhyme. HALT and WALK do not rhyme, but if FF had been keeping with the rhyming pattern in the poem, the words he used here should rhyme.

    It was not immediately apparent to me why he chose to use two words that didn’t rhyme. He is a smart guy. Surely he could have come up with two rhyming words, unless he didn’t want to because he wanted to draw our attention to these two words.

    Halt and walk are a dichotomy. They are exact opposites.

    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    So I googled these two words together and came up with a couple of interesting things. I will share one of them with you. The other one (or more) is a puzzle that you have to figure out on your own.

    When I googled HALT and WALK, I came up with something interesting. Apparently there is something called a “halt-walk” that is used when dealing with horses. Not really sure I can describe it accurately so you may have to google it yourself. From what I can understand, the “halt-walk” is used when walking a horse down an incline. It keeps the horse from falling on its face by preventing the horse’s hind legs from getting ahead of his front legs and causing him to fall.

    This would be important if you happen to be riding a horse along the trail because we have been told by the poem that we are to take the “canyon down” and “put in below the home of Brown”. Now I do not think we have to ride a horse for this adventure. But, I do think this is descriptive in that we will be going down a steep incline.

    The words HALT and WALK have some other things going on there as well, but I am going to let you figure this out on your own. It wasn’t easy.

    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    In regard to “walk” though, I do believe I understand clearly what FF means in the line, “not far but too far to walk”.

    I was going over some information in my solve and decided to look up some distances between points. That is when I found something fascinating.

    I came across a couple of websites that gave distances between points in my solve. The place names were listed on a chart, with the distances between the points. Then there was a note under the chart that indicated that the distances were “as the crow flies” and that getting to the place by car or trail may take much longer.

    That sounds very much to me like “not far, but too far to walk”.

    And then I thought it over. We have neighbors who live behind us. Their house is right over the back fence. But I can’t get to their yard through my backyard because of the fence. I have to drive around and it takes about 5 minutes to drive the distance around, when the only thing between me and my backyard neighbors is a fence.

    I firmly believe this is one meaning of “not far, but too far to walk”.

    But, like every other line in this poem, I believe it has at least 2 different meanings. For one thing, it refers to the historical event that is being used as a simile in the poem. I’m certain of this because of some historical information I have managed to dig up on the location of my solve.

    But like everything else in the poem, I firmly believe that this line has more than one meaning. For one thing, “not far” and “too far to walk” is a dichotomy.

    I googled “too far to walk” and came up with a quote about Huckleberry Finn.

    “Huckleberry Finn goes back to school. It isn’t too far to walk to Humblesmith after all, where the new day’s lecture for the hastened Fist opens with a quotation from Catullus:
    I hate and love. You ask how that can be?
    I know not, but I feel the agony.

    Notice that in the Huck Finn quote above, there is a dichotomy. Love and hate are opposites. FF loves dichotomy.

    Googling “too far to walk” brought up another book, written by John Hershey. The film rights were purchased by Otto Preminger . Google gave me this info on the film and the book. “The contested relationship between man and the earth is both historical and an existential metaphor (it is also a sexual metaphor, as is clear from the film’s preoccupation with dynamite- its degree of potency and freshness, Rad’s questioned ability to use it, the two series of explosions). Through this metaphor, Hurry Sundown takes on a quality both pathetic and hyperbolic. ”

    John Hershey’s book, Too Far to Walk is also a dichotomy. Forrest loves dichotomy!

    And I will just add here that my solve is filled with fascinating dichotomy. Hope FF is reading this.

    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    Back to the trail going down. I also want to point out that in addition to the fact that this trail is going “down” (requiring a halt-walk if you were riding your horse, which you won’t need) there is quite a bit more to the word “down” in this poem. Good luck with that. It might not be what you think.

    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    While I’m still on Stanza 2, I will mention some other things going on in this Stanza.

    In addition to “halt” being part of the dichotomy, it is extremely important to solving the WWWH. I have mentioned before and I will mention again that I feel certain that I have figured out WWWH. The answer to WWWH is the same answer I get when I consider FF’s comment about, (not sure I”m quoting this right), “the best place to start is at the beginning”. I think both of these clues have exactly the same answer. And it is something that is very frequently suggested in TOTC as well as other writings of FF.

    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    Then we have “put in below the home of Brown” Lots going on with this statement. I read one quote by FF who indicated that many people were walking right by “the home of Brown”, which indicates to me that it isn’t something like Brown or Mtn, Brown Lake. We are all smart enough not to just walk right by Brown Creek, Stream, etc.

    I really was kind of hung up with HOB. But then I focused a bit closer in and found out that there in the place I thought HOB should be, there is something that historically had the nickname similar to “home of Brown”. So then I thought I had it figured out until I discovered that literally less than 1/4 miles from my “something that historically had the nickname similar to HOB, there is another location that figuratively is HOB. Both places are right next to one another so I’m still mulling over which one is right, or perhaps both.

    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    Then we come to “no place for the meek”, “end drawing nigh”, no paddle up creek”, and “heavy loads and water high”

    The rest of the poem is filled with dichotomy, simile, hints and clues.

    Forrest said to study the poem. There is so much more than I have pointed out here. Dichotomy is fascinating! Double meanings to every line are fascinating!

    Happy Chasing!

    • Puzzled, I find your comment full of the same questions I have. I’d like to throw this in your mix and see what you think or perhaps you’ve already have discovered this. ……….
      Everard Jean Hinrichs, aka Eric Sloane.
      I believe he is the smilie that you speak of. For example…..
      Hinrichs knew, (hint of riches new) meaning Eric knew where Forrest hid the treasure. 2 people can keep a secret if one of them is dead.
      Secondly, Everard (ever drawing).
      So should we be looking for an Everard drawing. He had many, I think 15000.
      There are other clues pointing to Eric Sloane and IMO, he’s a major part of this whole story.

      • I do not believe that Eric is the simile. I would not be surprised if Eric knew the secret. I feel certain about the simile. I wasnt sure at first, but I have found ‘a historical document’ that contains phrases that were used in the poem. The ‘document’ is directly connected to the person/thing that I believe FF is comparing himself to. I also have found one piece of Eric Sloane art that “seems ” to give a clue. It matches a phrase in the poem and provides an answer to the phrase. But, I think it is coincidence. Eric and Forrest did share some common interests that could result in a piece of artwork representing the answer to one of FF’s clues/phrases from the poem.

        I also do not believe that Eric Sloane is refered to in “ever drawing”.

        I should have mentioned in my previous post, that my WWWH is true for two different definitions of WWWH. I have mentioned that I believe WWWH is the same definition/word/phrase that would also be the answer to “start at the beginning (one of the clues FF gave in an interview.). I believe WWWH= “start at the beginning”. However, there is another definition of WWWH that also applies to my WWWH solution. So basically, it halts in more than one way at this location.

        I first was able to make connections when I discovered the “key word”/ “word that is key”. Dont assume you know the definitions of all the words.

        Good luck

    • di·chot·o·my
      Okay, so there is a word for it.

      Does this explain why he says, “begin it where…AND take it…”

      • 9clues, if “begin it” and “take it” is a dichotomy, Im not seeing it. I do believe I understand why “it” is used. I had to first understand the person/historical event that is referred to in the simile. When I studied that, I no longer wondered about “it”.

    • Puzzled, Very fascinating as in I like it!
      Thanks for sharing as I had not looked at the poem in this way(not a simile)

    • I have had ‘some’ of those thoughts without knowledge it had a name. Just remember, IMHO, everything in moderation, don ‘t over work that idea.

    • Puzzled,
      You have some interesting thoughts..although most have been mentioned before, you seem to line them up a little different.
      With that said, I would like to suggest that your post be moved to it’s own page… maybe under arm chair searches… so that more discussions can be added without invading the nine clue thread and later get placed in the archives, after the nine clue thread become to crowded.

      My one question to you would be the history part you mention. We have heard and chatted about the comment / Q&A on is there any level of US history involvement…

      “Mr. Fenn, Is there any level of knowledge of US history that is required to properly interpret the clues in your poem. ~Steve R
      No Steve R,
      The only requirement is that you figure out what the clues mean. But a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help.ff”

      Do you feel that the history you are looking into, falls in or outside, of the above Q&A?


      • Seeker,

        Your thoughts about moving the discussion initiated by ‘Puzzled’ 😉 are what I would call a good idea, although I don’t believe it would be best served to call it “arm chair searches” rather than leave it in 9 clues discussions.

        There is an obvious divide between the boots on the ground and the arm chair searches. Why move something to where only half the searchers would have an interest.

        So now I am pausing wondering why you might recommend something like this. Divide and divert attention or maybe to keep this active discussion alive for longer than the 9 clues discussions take to get archived (long time, more than any topical discussions under 9 clues imo). This discussion would be carried over with the other 9 clue discussions too.

        So what was your point again?

        • FF said that if you study the poem and the map, you will be able to move with confidence. We will be traveling to the search site this late spring/summer. FF says to wait until summer. So this search is not an “arm chair solution”. It is a serious study in preparation for a hike to the solve site very soon. We want to “move with confidence”.

        • Point; to keep this discussion on a page where it can be talked about more… where that is, isn’t a factor. I thought there would be enough chatter along this line of thought, not unlike others, for an easier commenting.

          Everything here [the blog] relates to the nine clues… yet there are some dedicated pages for information like this chat, where it won’t be placed/discussed over 9 different pages of archives.

          That was my thought process and suggestion to.

          • Sorry Seeker, Looking for more chatter? Sorry today is a cleaning and cooking day, you can say our weekend is Monday Tuesday. I am about to make Goan Fish and Indian dish. But that has nothing to do with the hunt,,,I guess fishing, maybe.

            What is this about other places to chat?

  89. Puzzled;

    Quite the thesis; Lots of thought has gone into your solve so far.

    To me the biggest Dichotomy is this one:

    Forrest says that the poem is straight forward, yet you feel it is a dichotomy.

    Isn’t THIS a dichotomy? How can the poem be straight forward, and still be
    a dichotomy, or filled with dichotomies?

    Just something to think about.

    Good luch with your solve.

    Good luch to all on their searches, and STAY SAFE!


    • JD, Look at the quote from Huckleberry Finn. “When the new days lecture for the hastened fist opens with a quotation from Camillus.” ” I hate and love. You ask how this can be. I know not, but I feel the agony” Two things can both be true. In the poem, FF directs us to consider opposites like ‘walk’ and ‘halt’ Walk and halt are a dichotomy. But it does not make the poem any less straight foward. In my solve, the poem is absolutely straight forward!

      • Seeker,
        I have seen the quote about no level of knowledge required. I believe most people misunderstand FF’s answer to the question. If I look at the way in which the question was asked, I can see why there is confusion about what the answer is. It appears to me that Steve was asking if there was any kind of special knowledge needed BEFORE a person interprets the clues.

        What is “special training” or “level of knowledge”?

        I notice that some people are fairly convinced that the poem contains a cryptic hidden message that can only be found with some sort of code. So it seems like if that were the case, then anyone who is not trained in code breaking would not stand a chance at solving the poem. I would consider special code breaking to be a special skill or knowledge need to properly interpret the clues. Others might disagree.

        Compare this with questions others have brought up about whether some of the place names they find on the map are in a language other than English. I’ve seen people discussing various words that might mean “where warm waters halt” Now if a person needed to be completely fluent in a language other than English BEFORE they could begin to interpret the clues, then that would be a special level of knowledge and would be going against what FF said. But the reality is that there are hundreds of place names in the Rocky Mountains that are derived from a language other than English. Many of us have examined place names because we think they might mean WWWH or they might tie to another clue in the poem. I don’t need to be fluent in Spanish in order to recognize that a place name might be Spanish. I can then go to a source to look up that place name and find out what it means. If it means WWWH, then maybe I want to follow up on finding out why the place name means WWWH. There must be a reason. So I look into it a bit more. Then I can either satisfy myself that the place name really does mean WWWH, or I can determine it doesn’t mean that and maybe I’m in the wrong place. In my opinion, that kind of research does NOT require a level of knowledge to BEGIN TO INTERPRET the clues. It just requires some time to focus and think about the poem, compare it to a map and then follow up on place names on the map which might be WWWH. I don’t need to be fluent in Spanish to do this. Anyone can manage it with a few basic resources.

        “The only requirement is that you figure out what the clues mean. But a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help.ff”

        This quote, along with other quotes from FF, indicate to me that some work is going to be needed. I’ve read some estimates that over 65,000 people have looked for the treasure. Obviously, if it were simple, somebody would have it by now. So it is going to require some study of the poem itself to try to understand what is going on with it. It will also require some understanding of maps, and geography. I have spent quite a bit of time on that as well. But, anyone can do that. You don’t need to wait until you earn a college degree in map making or until you are trained to be a geography teacher in order to read, come up with ideas, look into those ideas and follow up with more research.

        So when I say that I have studied the area of my search and read the historical background, I am saying that I am studying the poem and the map. FF said that we would only need a map and the poem. I do think that is true. But, it is going to take some amount of study in order to understand how the clues might fit into the solve that I am working on.

        Here is an example. I’ve heard “heavy loads” discussed repeatedly. You ask yourself, “what are heavy lodes?” Maybe it would help to look up each and every work in that phrase and analyze whether there might be definitions of any of the words in the phrase that might be different than what you think the definition is. You probably will find out there there are different definitions to a lot of words the poem. Then you ask yourself, “how might one of these other definitions fit the solve that I am working on”, or “could this be saying something different than I thought at first”. So then you decide that there really is no way the definition would fit the place you are looking at. Maybe you choose a new search area and begin to learn a bit more about it until you can rule it either in, or out for a search area.

        So while I firmly believe that FF does not expect anyone to go learn a special skill before they can begin to analyze the poem and the map, I do believe he expects us to do what he says and STUDY the poem and the map. That is time consuming and we will learn as we go along. But, anyone can do that without being trained in a special area of study first.

        About Historical Research
        It doesn’t take any special skill to study the poem, ask questions, look up information to learn more and begin to try to identify points on a map. The “historical document” I keep referring to falls under this category. I do not need a degree in history or a complete understanding of every single place in the Rocky Mountains before I can study the poem and the map. As I study, I am going to learn more and that will help me determine if I’m going in the right direction.

        To be specific. The “document” I keep referring to is connected to “heavy loads and water high”. I had a hunch what that meant, but for my hunch to be correct, I had to check out the geography and the weather patterns in the area of my search. I needed to know if it was a desert or a forest, high elevation or low, and what group of people live there now or what people might have one time lived there. So I asked myself these questions and set out to find the answers. I spent a few days on it. I read so much stuff and became so interested in what I was learning about so many things that I just kept studying it. Along the way, I found out what people used to live in the area and what life might have been like for them. Along the way, I decided that I did the have the right answer to “heavy loads and water high”. And then I was just reading something I found from the area of my search.

        The document was just talking about the people who first lived there and how “heavy loads” affected their lives. And it wasn’t just talking about carrying a bunch of stuff around that was heavy! It was in the context of what I had previously suspected heavy loads meant! It was talking about how the “heavy loads” (in a unique context) had affected the lives of the people there. So this told me that “heavy loads” could be used in that context and that the context would fit the place of my search.

        Does that help at all?

        I just firmly believe that we do not need a college degree in any specific area of study in order to begin to interpret what we think the poem means, study more about it, read, think, and start to analyze the information. This kind of study is what FF meant when he said to study the poem and the map. That is all I am really doing. Just my opinion

        • “Mr. Fenn, Is there any level of knowledge of US history that is required to properly interpret the clues in your poem. ~Steve R
          No Steve R,

          The question presented was about “US history” imo that is very specific.

          Now If I’m reading you correctly… it seems your time line is prior to “US history”. ~ I found out what people used to live in the area and what life might have been like for them. ~ So i’m ok with that… was just a curiosity. My guess is heavy leads and water high means Ice rivers… and a time period prior to the USA. If so can you explain the comment. ~ There are many WWWH in the RM’s and nearly all of them are north of SF.?

          • In the area of my solution, I have read material describing how the land features were formed, as well what kind of rocks, plants, animals are in the area. I have information that talks about what little is known about the area prior to US History and I also have information on early explorers, and those who were in the area in the 1800’s. Also have newer information as recent as yesterday’s weather report.

            Just to be clear. It is not necessary to have any special training in US History in order to study the area of your search.

            In regard to the following quote.
            “There are many WWWH in the RM’s and nearly all of them are north of SF”
            In all of the scenarios that I considered for a place WWWH, I determined that all of them had multiple possibilities. I know that FF also said in connection with that quote, that you should consider the “whole picture”. Of course that is hard to do when you can’t even see the whole picture that is hidden in this poem. But, I believe he meant to identify additional clues if possible. Do you have a place where you believe WWH? There are probably dozens more that also fit the definition as you have interpreted it. But, if you look at all of them ( or even just a few), can you see any possibility that what you think the next clue is, might fit your chosen location? What about the third clue? Do you think your solution area might fit with “heavy loads and water high”? It just will take a lot of trial and error until you can fit in all of the clues to a proposed solve. And, even then – who knows?

            Good Luck

  90. Puzzle,

    Your methodical ‘comparisons’ are intriguing to say the least. I hope to appreciate an exciting journey involving higher and refreshing levels…. to the hilt.

    Thank you.


    • “….and the dichotomy of Fechin’s earthly experience still weighs heavily on my mind.”

      Forrest Fenn – Too Far to Walk


  91. @Puzzled: I wasn’t going to log on today, planned on taking a break from anything internet and still had my head in the sand from that topic about loving it to death. Really good food for thought, glad I checked in today, thanks.

    My only ‘but what about’ is: Didn’t a question get asked to ff regarding need for historical knowledge and his reply was something like not really? I read that somewhere and always figured that 1800 era or before type history wasn’t really needed at this point in time….100 years from now things may be different if the TC is still out there! So, if your ‘historical’ discovery isn’t more than early 1900’s to 1988 then you may have found something good.

    I like the Sloan involvement/connection, the thinking about horses and the Huck Finn too. Lot’s of good thinking going on, wonder if others are on the same wave length as you are. One other tiny critique would be the ‘show it to a kid’ comment from ff and your dichotomy angle being a bit more mature than a young kid….Anyhow, thanks and Happy Easter.

    • I might not have made it clear that my solution started ONLY with a map and the poem. No special knowledge needed. But, Forrest did say to “study” the poem and the map.

      Forest also said that he put hints in the book TTOTC and in his interview answers. So when I came across the word dychotomy, as Forrest was talking about Eric Sloan, and I didnt know what the word meant, I looked it up. While we may not need any “special knowledge” it is possible that we may encounter in FF writing or interviews, something we need to look up to understand. I think this is not really obtaining special knowledge, but just CLARIFYING what Forrest has said. I didnt know the word dychotomy (which Forrest used) and so I looked it up. The minute I read the definition, I could see that it defined what I already knew,was happening in the poem. I already knew from studying the poem, that Forrest was comparing opposites.

      I also already knew from the map that several places on my solve involved “opposites”. I didnt really need to know the word dychotomy in order to see it in the poem and on the map. But it was entertaining to me that I finally had a word for what I knew was there.

      As far as historical information, I looked up a few things on my map to better understand what I was looking at. I already had the locations on my map. But, looking them up sometimes helps us visualize the area, topography, fine details and so on.

      I think I could have done without the historical information and just stuck with map and poem. But, understanding the historical information gave me a clearer picture of the area and simply confirmed for me that some of the things I suspected about the area were true. I do have historical documents that talk in great detail about the area. It was not easy to find them. But I had to know the area of my search first and that came from the map and poem. What the historical papers did for me was give me another view of the area. When I saw some of the same unique phrases that FF used in the poem, I felt like I had confirmation that I was on the right path.

      Forrest did say STUDY the map and poem. I think he meant more than just staring at it. I think he meant that we should understand it. That is just my own opinion.

      Also; I got the Huck Finn quote from Forrest’s own writing. So it isnt just a random thing. There was a reason Forrest quoted it.

      I think STUDYING the map and poem are essential.

      • If you look in a mirror, what do you see?
        An opposite reflection.
        You may have something here Puzzled.

        What do you think about the opposite of nigh?

        • Jake, I really wish someone would explain to me where the idea of a mirror came from. I don’t see a mirror mentioned in the poem, but I do see a “figurative mirror” in my solve. So if someone would tell me what is the deal with the mirror, I would love to know. Because me solve has a “figurative mirror”

          • In the book he mentions mirror and there is a scrapbook where the mirror is central. It is an occasional fringed theme in some of his writtings.

          • Thank you Bee. I thought someone suggested the idea of mirrors came from the poem and I’m must not seeing it. But, yes, it is talked about in the book. And he does quote a lot of other writing that suggests mirror images.

            There is a “mirror of sorts” in my solution.

          • Puzzled, re mirrors one idea within the poem
            Look quickly down….
            [loo k-doun]
            Spell Syllables
            the appearance of paper when inspected under reflected light.

          • The mention of Mirrors are in the book, as well as SB’s. But to give you examples of Mirror image in the poem… look at what you state earlier. Begin to halt… is a good example of start and finish/stop.
            Then there’s warm and cold. exact opposites yet mean the same thing [ with many usages ]. You can take some words a step further, such as there and where, as to there in time or where in time, and where a place to there a place… in both present and past time.

            New and Old works well as opposites too. up and down… etc. etc. just to name a few. Most words have a mirror or exact opposites, not unlike the poem is written in past and present tense.

            Are treasures and trove the same? or can they be opposites… while both have value… one is possession / owned, the other has no owner. I could also say far meaning right side and nigh meaning left side, opposites … if we twist it a bit right could be east and left could be west [ thinking maps ] or opposites.

            If you want to be creative;
            Begin it where warm waters halt…
            So why is it that I must go…
            Go and halt [stop] opposites, and if interpret that begin WWWH is birth … and Why I must go is death… opposites.
            and could relate to new and old as well.

            exact opposite… mirror image. Fenn’s selfie in the SB with the mirror is opposite… he seems to be holding the camera in his left hand, but it’s actually his right hand.

            The cover of tftw shows a shadow of the exact opposite in the same manor.

            Just a few examples….

          • Ok. I see what you are talking about. I still don’t think opposites are mirror images but I see your point. And, as I said, my solve does involve a “mirror of sorts”.

    • I don’t see a specific thread on “no place for the meek” so I guess this is the place? Forrest said something about a comprehensive understanding of geology might help. What about Fielding Bradford Meek
      At first I thought maybe as Meek was “more or less an invalid”, no place for the meek was no place for the weak, that fits even if you didn’t know anything about Meek. But could this be narrowed down more to a layer in the fossil record? “Follow the canyon down” could be talking follow down the fossil record again fitting with a knowledge of geology is helpful but not necessary, the word down can always refer to “down a timeline”. Now maybe also add in ” put in below the home of Brown”. This I haven’t looked into but maybe there is something in the fossil record where you would start a canyon at Brown and get out at Meek. I’m asking for free help from the Geology gurus here LOL!

  92. I am not convinced that the poem has anything to do with water, and perhaps…


  93. Is anyone else brave and in the paper? Or having trouble with words that dissapeared? Was that the question?

    I understand that fenn wants someone to find the treasure someday but it must be terribly tricky to keep the ball rolling without giving away too much. Most hints that are given are only helpful once you already know the answers….so much fun when they connect! I am just now getting back to where i left off and hopefully more of his hints will start to make sense. It is like finding things in plain site. My biggest complaint is knowing what information is necessary for the solve and what information is just a confirmer. I just keep in mind that he did want someone to eventually figure the clues out with his cryptic breadcrumbs. Thank goodness temps are warming, i could use the time to walk in sunshine, flora and fauna for inspiration.


    • Ah well. Good luck all, and dont get to mad brainstorming, it is possible to solve this and be right on his spot.

    • Bee,
      There’s many here that are brave & in the pulp.
      I think some of us have trouble with words that vanish.
      Your biggest complaint is just your mind not knowing the unknown.
      9 breadcrumbs will lead you to the bird bath.

  94. Is it safe to say that the nine clues are 9 words or phrases of PLACES that will lead you to the treasure.
    Where does warm waters halt?
    Which canyon do I have to go down?
    Where is the home of Brown where I have to put in?
    Where’s no place for the meek & from there?
    The end is ever drawing nigh; This does not seem to be a place – or is it?
    Which creek?
    Heavy loads? or maybe it’s lodes, anyway, where is it?
    Water high, there’s water high everywhere.
    What’s the blaze?
    Is the blaze in between heavy loads & water high?

    The hints in the books must be places.
    I don’t know of any other way to figure this out.
    I have spent enough time in school trying to figure out geometry, algebra & trigonometry & refuse to use formulas & such to figure this out. Geometry was fun though.
    There are no coordinates hidden in the poem.
    It’s straight forward, but Forrest’s straight forward may differ from our straight forward.

    Just my straight forward opinion & approach.

    • c’mon Jake, it sounds like you’re taking the poem at face value. You know better than that, that will just lead to a dead end. Outside the box, Jake…But I’ll help a little, (what do I know).
      HoB is a place which goes by a different name then it went by when f was young,
      nigh IS a place, just need to “sever” the end.
      no creek, just latitude (if you severed nigh correctly)
      heavy loads & water high is direction, one of two places.
      meek is a gate, blaze is before water high, and yes, there are coordinates (if you do them correctly, the poem also yields the exact elevation of those coordinates)
      The poem is straight forward, last clue is line 24.
      Look at line 21 and solve it as many ways as you can, outside the box Jake….And the blaze, I would need your email for that.
      Oh yea, IMO…

      • Charlie,
        I will agree with some of your comments.
        I was born outside the box. If you think too far outside the box, you lose where you came from.
        If you cannot find my email somewhere in this comment, which doesn’t take much effort, then you should try going back to finding all nine clues.
        Have a good night.

      • Charlie,
        How did you know that my interpretation of the clues in the poem will lead me to a dead end?
        I will be disappointed if it does not.
        Yes I see it at face value with a few twists. I am pretty sure it’s still very difficult at face value considering all the failures using this method if you will.
        I don’t think you would need elevation if you had coordinates, especially if those coordinates are for where the treasure is, & then if that was the case you wouldn’t need 9 clues either.
        All in my opinion.
        You can click on my name & goto contact page to send me a private.

    • Jake,

      Why do the clues have to be ” places “? Ok, all places. I noticed to left out “not far, but too far to walk” is this not a clue to you? it doesn’t have to be, yet if it is, is it a non place?
      Try asking these questions for a change of pace…
      Are the places needed to be traveled or just understood?
      Are all the clues places?
      Are there hints in the poem that will help? [ why is the poem only read for clues?]
      Could the places referred to, be a collection of one place? made up of smaller / parts of a larger place?
      Is the poem directional only?
      The small list of questions you have, don’t include any parts of stanza 1, 5 or 6… I don’t know if you left them out for a reason or dismiss them as clues… But if you’re asking about clues to place, can’t one or all of these stanzas hold a place?

      Fenn said, every word was deliberate. then said, not every word will help. Either way you take those comments… you seem to be dismissing a lot of words.
      Like you said, what is straightforwards to fenn? First he warns us the poem is difficult, but not impossible. Tells us the path will not be direct if we don’t know beforehand. States don’t “over” complicate the poem by knowing a bunch of things [ head pressure, bible verses, codes, etc.]
      States there are many WWWH in the RMs and don’t “over” simplify the clues…

      Maybe the question you should ask is; which one are you doing?
      Over complicating a difficult poem [ I’ll add a complicated poem ]
      Over simplifying a difficult poem? Maybe by being too straightforwards in your places.

      • Seeker,

        I will tell you why I believe the clues to be places, or things at places or along places that you have to travel.

        The books which I read from the back to the beginning, had listed many places, people, things & experiences.

        I decided that the places in the books were going to be hints that will help you figure out the clues in the poem considering the poem has questions about places you need to figure out.
        Maybe the people, things & experiences do play a role here as well.
        The treasure is obviously in a very special PLACE.

        “They’re contiguous, I put one foot down & then step on it, to get to the next foot.”
        – He said to step on on it to get to the next foot.
        contiguous: sharing a common border; touching.

        I left out NF,BTFTW because I felt as though this line is a metaphor.
        “I looked up the meaning of words”
        Too far to walk “That part of my Preface is a metaphor for my entire life.”
        Why would Forrest title his book with a line in the poem?
        OK, I snipped a bit, but I don’t think it’s a clue, place, hint or thing.
        I think we can take a straight forward approach with this line.

        They all need to be understood & think the poem is directional.

        Stanza 1, Forrest is stating what he has done with the treasure including contents.

        Stanza’s 2, 3 & 4, hold the clues. There is no “I”

        Stanza 5, he’s telling us why he has done it.

        Stanza 6, Listen good……..

        Again, notice, there is no “I” in stanzas 1, 5 & 6.
        So stanzas 2, 3 & 4 are about you being wise.

        This is my short explanation of my opinion.

        • Hello Jake,

          You said, “Stanza’s 2, 3 & 4, hold the clues. There is no “I”. “

          Forrest has said in the past(paraphrasing) – that a few, several, etc. have gotten the first two clues (although they didn’t know it)…, not very many have gotten the first “two”.

          But, on 11/02/2015, he said this, “No, many people have found the first clue but they didn’t know it.” …, “many” have gotten the first clue.


          ??Your statement, that all the clues are in stanzas 2, 3 & 4, would seem to indicate that “many” have found WWWH (but don’t know it)??

          • Just to add to your paraphrasing.
            (38:10) How many clues has someone cracked? I know they’ve cracked the first 2, and went right past the treasure chest. Several people have done that.
            Not sure of the date when he said it.

            I have to believe what what Forrest says when he is candid & I believe these statements are as such.

            The fact of the matter is that there are “I’s” in the 1st, 5th & 6th stanzas only.
            The 6th has “I” & “You” which is the last stanza of course & this is the only stanza where there are both. Hmmm.

            The 2nd, 3rd & fourth – there is no “I” as you already know which brought the red flag higher.

            ??Your statement, that all the clues are in stanzas 2, 3 & 4, would seem to indicate that “many” have found WWWH (but don’t know it)??
            Seems to be some searchers & some tourists as well as the same recipe for some being within 200′-500′ of the ultimate.

            Just a thought

      • TM? Seeker,
        I will ask you one ?
        Have you bought & read the books yet?
        I had TM? before I read the books.
        Now I have TMI.

        [ why is the poem only read for clues?]
        I have no idea…..

        • I read the book… point? Is ownership important?

          I guess it would be, If I needed to burn a page, or spray lemon juice on it, maybe examine it under an electron microscope, or rummage through all the clues secreted in every page of the book, measure pictures, count standing trees to stumps, know about every jet that was ever flown, chase down every owl ever mentioned, look for horses with a white blaze on it’s face, then add that altogether to very SB and after the fact statement, compile years of research from dino-rex, to who or what is named Brown…mix all that into a blender and hope for a nice fluffy cake.

          Why don’t you have any ideas of the question ‘ “why is the poem only read for clues?”
          I mean, it is a poem, is it not? when you read the poem, are you only reading what you want or think clues are… if so, are you missing something by limiting the readings only to read as clues?

          It’s a fair question… I would have thought most would ask themselves the same. It’s ok if you’re stuck on one method of reading the poem… at least you’re having fun.

          • When you buy a book, you own it & it is there for any ?’s you may have later.
            I know you have read it, but it’s nice to go back to it now & then, unless you have a photographic memory.

            I will answer your Q
            “why is the poem only read for clues?”
            Most people that read the poem do read it for clues.
            Some people read it because they have no idea about it’s relation to the chest.
            When I handed the poem to my mom, she read it not knowing about the chest.
            She said it’s a interesting poem.
            I agree.

            There are underlying stories to the poem.
            One of the stories I see is that you start at a bathing spot & end in another which I have stated before.
            You begin where warm waters halt & end where cold waters warm.

            I am not stuck anymore.
            It all makes sense to me.
            Why does the reflection in the mirror only show opposite of right & left but not north & south?

          • Very nice catch Jake… Mirror image. I have not heard another actually say it, but yes… east west, not north south.

            Anyways… that is an observation… so what can you do with it? I have a couple of thoughts on that. I do share a lot of my thoughts… but I’ll hold on to those for a while longer.

      • One more reason why.
        I noticed to (you) left out “not far, but too far to walk” is this not a clue to you?

        This line seems out of place. Get it? place, out of….
        Walk does not rhyme with halt.
        This is not a clue in my opinion.

        I look forward to your East West theory in the future, when your ready.

  95. Spring Cleaning. … maybe you, or that little girl in India might like to pick over my discards…

    In TTOTC there are 6 or 7 references to the color ‘brown’, plus a capitalize ‘Brown’ in the poem. A theme emerged from the contexts … brown gravy and brown toast are both a result of fire. The brown britches stain was from a fire escape. George ‘BURNS’ rang like a firebell. But how does a brown sack & a brown bag in? Ah ha, Fenn’s humor perhaps? Sacks & bags are holes! Thus, fire +hole + capitalized = Firehole. Does that work for anyone?

    The CD for WWWH? …. Warm waters of the Atlantic on the East, Cold waters of the Pacific on the West. Isa Lake because ISA mirrors AS I… the first 3 letters of the first stanza and that’s kinda bold.

    Or, Parting of the Waters …. Atlantic Creek drains east into Yellowstone River and Pacific Creek drains west into the Snake, thus “Go in peace” takes on a new meaning. A bit westward, Mr. Brown’s solitary grave nestles in the woods of his meadow. Read the interesting article written about 100 years ago by Evermann in Google’s References. His creek is just west of the Parting.

    A 3rd relatable CD site is in the vicinity of the park, a bit more tricky.
    From Isa Lake, you can walk off in 360°, but if you are driving, there are only two ways to go… I’d go towards Firehole. Look for a name dear to Texans… it looks like an asterisk. That old road probably saw a few bikes.

    Hate discarding stuff I can’t use, hope you found something that stirred your spirit.

  96. Jake, IMHO from begin to brown are as you say, from there, is exactly that, somewhere else. From there is about life away from that other peaceful spot near Brown. S 5 and 6 go on telling you about life and it’s treasures.

  97. Jake,
    Three comments on your questions:
    IMO, 9 places.
    IMO, there is only one creek there (of any significant size)
    IMO, no, that is not “precisely” the location of the blaze.
    “Have flashlight and gloves, will travel”

  98. Charlie;

    You posted to Jake,”c’mon Jake, it sounds like you’re taking the poem at face value. You know better than that, that will just lead to a dead end. Outside the box,”

    Why should Jake “Know better than that?” Do you have the Treasure Chest in your hot little hands, and have not told the world about it?

    Jake’s OPINION is just as correct as your “Stated facts”…or at least until one of you (or I) find the treasure.

    Until you present us with the treasure, your pontificating sounds like that of an unnamed politician running for President. Sorry, I can’t put much faith in either.

    This of course, is just my opinion, and we all have a right to express those opinions as just that – OPINIONS

    Have a great hunt


    • Thanks JD,
      Maybe he’s right & I should know better than that. But there is only one person that does know better & he’s not talking, because he knows better.

        • Yes, he does keep talking, but he’s very careful in what he says, and smart enough not to give out any information that would help find the chest, IMO. No mater what he says, someone will turn it into a clue that helps them with their solve. Analyze what he SAYS to figure out how he THINKS and you will be closer to finding the chest, again, IMO

  99. As I have gone …..and with…. (you know how it reads), IMHO, are the 2 times , once as a young’en and once as a ole man. IMHO that is also a hint to…….

        • I’m a mainframe software engineer and a private investigator so I have a “logical” brain, and I’m not sure anything makes sense.
          Maybe logic is the problem.
          I’ve got sooo many ideas swirling in my mind i’m having trouble filtering out the noise.

          • I think my best ideas were sparked by someone elses comments. One I cant say, but Latest were about author Jonh Donne for his, for whom the bells toll and tittles to the gold in the poem meaning and who posted that about doubles, some word starting with a D. all That got me 2 times,places,& treasures. But no X.
            maybe a area but no 10×10.

          • Oh, and the info about Agates, very interesting, from 2 different people. You know that in addition to brown, they can also be Red or Black or Green.

          • Musstag
            I work with performance management and monitoring tools for z/OS (MVS). Love the Mainframe space!

            Thank you for the posts reply, I constantly turn new information over and over in my brain. I had previously read the John Donne piece. And agree with poem’s two POV/twin/double. I like this part the most,
            “If a man carry treasure in bullion or in a wedge of gold, and have none coined into current moneys, his treasure will not defray him as he travels. Tribulation is treasure in the nature of it, but it is not current money in the use of it, except we get nearer and nearer our home, heaven, by it.”

            Is “doubles” in ref to the words with double letters or stringing the words together (like the kids on the string in the gallery)? I’ll have to search the archives.

            “some word starting with a D” – that went over my head. Ha. not the first.

            I’ve read a lot about the Agates and how they were formed and where they are found. I thought it might be tied to the kind of rock cliffs I’m looking for… Mucronata chalk but it was not.

            Do you know what double omegas look like upside down?
            A Lower Case Omega… da ta daaaaa the blaze?

          • So Arca,
            You think that being a software engineer and a private investigator makes you have a “logical” brain?
            So illogical IMO.

            The 9 clues have nothing on you.

          • @Jake, The jobs don’t give me the logical brain, but my abilities put me in those professions.
            Does that answer your question?

        • Well I have not found any cents here but I have found, sense. But these days I think I only make sense to myself. I am working on a convergence of all the thoughts on the blog like Hammertime once suggested a few weeks ago. Big stinking job. Good advice I suppose. We will see. Thanks everyone for your thoughts.


          • Well I know meek, well the whole s4 ‘can’ be a metaphor for it takes strength to get thru life, yet we ever are nearing death, and things w/o a paddle wont be easy and our burdens great… and many swift
            streams to cross in life… forgot the point…

          • Oh, the point ‘may’ be that this is how things are from there, but not near here all. Meaning of what I allude to is Brown may be it, no need to next find a meek, a creek and so on.

            That’s the end of this guided tour.

    • IMO he did it young to middle aged a (few times) and when he hid it. Possibly on trips to YNP?.

  100. Musstag asked,
    “Is any thing begining to make sense to anyone?”

    I thought I’d throw out my best April 1 IMO, on what I once thought the 9 clues were. There are 10 lines in the poem between “begin” and “cease”.
    (This makes a lot of sense to an old FORTRAN programmer like me.)
    The first two of these lines are not separated by punctuation. So, IMO:
    One: Begin it where warm waters halt
    And take it in the canyon down,
    Two: Not far, but too far to walk.
    Three: Put in below the home of Brown.
    Four: From there it’s no place for the meek,
    Five: The end is ever drawing nigh;
    Six: There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
    Seven: Just heavy loads and water high.
    Eight: If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
    Nine: Look quickly down, your quest to cease,

    I emphasize that I no longer think that these are the exact 9 clues; however, I would suggest IMO that a new searcher who started to follow these clues (or a similar set) “precisely” would soon find themselves being able to match the (tentative or modified) clues to actual locations, or, in many cases, rule out other locations. Sorry for being so wordy.
    Have a great April everyone, with productive research and safe searching!
    “Have flashlight and gloves, will travel”

    • The list of 9 clues that I’m working on;

      As I have gone alone in there
      And with my treasures bold,
      I can keep my secret where,
      And hint of riches new and old.

      Begin it where warm waters halt
      And take it in the canyon down,
      Not far, but too far to walk.
      Put in below the home of Brown.

      From there it’s no place for the meek,
      The end is ever drawing nigh;
      There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
      Just heavy loads and water high.

      If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
      Look quickly down, your quest to cease,
      But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
      Just take the chest and go in peace.

      So why is it that I must go
      And leave my trove for all to seek?
      The answers I already know,
      I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.

      So hear me all and listen good,
      Your effort will be worth the cold.
      If you are brave and in the wood
      I give you title to the gold.

      • It’s best to use the entire poem in a solve. One limits themselves from using only part of the poem. To me it doesn’t seem logical that only half or nine lines from the poem hold all the clues. When I analyze the poem I begin to realize that the clues start with large areas that can be identified on maps and at some point in the poem the scales change and describe a small place. It does seem difficult to determine when these scales change within the poem. If the poem leads precisely to the chest than many clues may be within very close proximity of each other similar to bread crumbs that need to be followed. I believe the end of the poem holds these type of clues and without understanding them one will never find the chest. To think that 2 clues can be within 10 feet of each other towards the end of the poem really makes one think the importance of finding the area where the chest lines is in the beginning of the poem. I’m starting to think once one arrives at the blaze the scales my change. Where in the poem do you see the scales change?

        • Good thoughts Count. The crazy thing about it is the answer depends upon each person’s solve for a particular area. The clues will line up. You have to determine how they fit together. We are looking into different possibilities. Some may make sense to search over a hundred miles. Another makes sense within 5. The location and how the clues speak to you that determine this.

          For example, some people may find a solution where everything is isolated to a specific park, lake, mountain, river, etc. Who is to say whether the clues are concentrated or spread out?

          I do think it’s reasonable to say the clues should tend to tighten up the closer you get to the end. “Take the left path, find the marker that looks like a bear, listen for running water, is there an echo? …” Fun stuff 🙂

          • Magic8- you asked a question
            Who is to say whether the clues are concentrated or spread out? If the poem leads one to a 10×10 inch box out of the American Rockies at some point the clues must be concentrated Imo. This all comes to my mind because of Fenn’s use of precisely when describing how the poem leads to the chest. When analyzing the poem one can see the scales change such as in stanza 2 a canyon is mentioned then in stanza 3 a creek which by terms would be smaller.

        • The Count,

          Like minds ~ I believe you are on the right track…many more clues than “nine”, larger area leading to smaller, more definite location(s)…tell me, when are you hitting the trail?

          -Wisconsin Mike

          • Wisconsin Mike,
            Not long ago I lived in the Rockies and was always hitting the trails but recently I have moved. Due to finances I won’t be able to search again until 2017. Better that way gives me adequate time to plan and think of locations I want to go. How about you?

      • are you certain Seeker? there must be at least a dozen clues in there somewhere. we need to figure this out before aliens scramble our brainz. – did i just say that last part out loud?

        • Just because one thing is described 3 different ways doesn’t make it 3 different things, it would still be one. Don’t understand why so many throw sentence structure out the door when it comes to the poem.

          2 things come to mind
          1st- poems are known to break the rules of English and often have no punctuation
          2nd-Fenn used punctuation within the poem, punctuation that help understand each sentance. He did this for a reason.

          The big question did he do it to complicate the poem more?

      • Seeker,
        As always, you say a lot, in just a few words!
        “Have flashlight and gloves, will travel”

          • Yup. I even know why it’s capitalized. Now if I could just figure out why “Brown” is capitalized…
            “Have flashlight and gloves, will travel”

  101. Geoff- the treasure will be found this year! The code has been cracked! When you hear the complexity and simplicity of how, you will shake your head in unbelief, saying, “How did i miss that!” Its a wonderous and beautiful thing! Be sure to search early cause nobody will beat my solve!

    • What’s your deadline, before then, date John e…

      Goin’ in on snowshoes?…

    • “Be sure to search early cause nobody will beat my solve!”
      I give us a little somethin’ to smack around…

      • Euphoria can be intoxicating, lots of stumbling and falling down…Gettin’ back up is often sobering enough…

    • Somebody needs to go through this blog and others and compile the number and variety of these types of statements that have been made over the years.

    • “Be sure to search early cause nobody will beat my solve!”
      — John edo

      “Or, rather, let us be more simple and less vain.”
      ― Jean-Jacques Rousseau

      i agree with complexity and simplicity.
      some others may have “cracked the code.”
      there may not be a code to crack.
      i think it’s important to remember-

      “Everything is false, everything is possible, everything is doubtful.”
      ― Guy de Maupassant

      best, leigh.

    • Maybe, but not likely IMO. Be careful not to fly too close to the sun, by which I mean Goofy’s nuke button. We have all felt the exuberance that a new and shiny solve gives us, however some folks have taken that feeling to mean they or their interpretation of the poem is somehow superior to others here. Posting that you know something without any evidence is one thing, calling others inferior, without any evidence,is another. I personally will be headed out when spring has truly sprung. Oh and Forrest said it isn’t a code or cypher btw.

  102. Both “complexity” and “simplicity”?
    IMO, “precisely” would be a good description of a tentative solution.
    “Have flashlight and gloves, will travel”

      • Enlightenment should be maybe tempered by caution…It won’t be safe until the snow is gone you know…Take care in your search, retrieval may be impossible ’til later due to accessibility…

      • John — Let me guess your Nirvana:

        1) Paradise Valley MT
        2) Spirit Mountain, MT
        3) Dream Lake, CO


  103. The tracks are not a place to go around or are they. John a place is there, so there is the treasure. GL with your solve.

    As I figure the clues each one is a step like crawling down a ladder. One foot in front of the other with the reason why in mind the whole way down.

    Finding Forrest Fenn

    I’m not saying you have to crawl down a ladder to find the treasure but you must follow the steps.

    Defining the There

    Keeping in mind treasures new and old this might replace the one below if I screwed it up. #3 but 7 is a favor in the poem and 8 is next in line. On my rock I build my foundation.

    1 Warm waters halt
    2 The canyon down
    3 Not far but to far
    4 Put in below
    5 Home of Brown
    6 No place for the meek
    7 Continue to the end that’s drawing nigh;
    8 no paddle up your creek
    9 Above you Heavy loads and water high

    Your there where you must be brave to gain possession by being associated with cold and in the wood.\Blazing trails? Waterfalls or deeper thought ?

    Would you figure the treasure, not being safe from destruction? I would not. Its protected so you will not destroy it, with your pick or shovel. He loves its value and meaning to much, I believe. Just thinking out loud. He thought of everything right.

    The there is of substance and beauty.
    The reason why is everything that has meaning to him and his life.

    To find the treasure you must find thought.

    After you find it, it will also take thought, and a lot of it.
    Always keep your mind and be aware of what is around you at all times.

    You must also think of everything. The “my” key word is Love. So love it, learn it, and live it. Don’t go to “Jail ” or [ Die ] Think first and always be “Safe” This is supposed to be fun right !! I Hope I didn’t give to much away here !;;!

    Yes I’m looking and listing to everything even you. Are you? The search goes on GL everyone. Remember to keep your hearts full of love always,…

    Thank You Forrest Fenn for making us think. Even if we do screw it up. It’s a lot of joy learning and exploring. This is like a big sand box. I cant wait to jump in again tomorrow. Yee… Ha… JB RC and Titan

    • Jeff,

      Did the “there” part you posted (copied below) come from f? As in, are these specific lines supposed to be the 9 ladder rungs?

      Defining the There

      Keeping in mind treasures new and old this might replace the one below if I screwed it up. #3 but 7 is a favor in the poem and 8 is next in line. On my rock I build my foundation.

      1 Warm waters halt
      2 The canyon down
      3 Not far but to far
      4 Put in below
      5 Home of Brown
      6 No place for the meek
      7 Continue to the end that’s drawing nigh;
      8 no paddle up your creek
      9 Above you Heavy loads and water high

      • to add to the comment above, it would seem the blaze would be a significant clue. curious why the 9 clues are tallied prior to that.

  104. Hi Everyone,
    Trip was delayed due to the snow storm and trying to get back out there when family life will allow. In the mean time, How do you access old archived discussion topics on this site? What am I missing on the site?
    Thanks for the help and Stay Safe in your adventures.

    • Hello Pschillerberg. You’ll find to the right of this blog several things that will help you. Under “Discuss the Chase….Searcher’s Discussions,” you’ll find plenty of topics.

    • Pschiller-
      The indexes are on the right side of the blog, at the top of the page, in orange type.
      Look under “Discuss the Chase”…
      (left side if you are looking at the blog in a mirror)
      Do you need a poem and a map to show you where they are located?

    • Well Pschillerberg I don’t know how anyone would know what you missed. I asked my Dee Lux Wee Gee Board Mouse Pad your question and the mouse started rolling around on the pad laughing, so I still don’t know.

      As far as the discussion topics, they are listed under “Discuss The Chase” on the right hand menu. The list includes the archives of the discussions. But that’s just the part of the comments; each post has many interesting and insightful comments from the teeming millions.

      Good hunting.

  105. Off topic here.
    Is it my imagination that text in (parenthesis) when you comment )Hi( does not show up in emails by WP subs? (Hi)
    I cannot know this for sure unless I create another user, which I have not done & will not. Unless the comment was edited after posting?

  106. Thanks for help…Guess I needed to open my eyes, be a little more patient and look for the “ARCHIVE” in the title. hmmm…..can’t figure out directory…looks like the solution is safe from my intellectual capabilities 🙂

    • @Pschillerberg it does take some getting used to, navigating around here. 2013 – 2014 is good time frame to get up to speed, IMO. I think the archives take a second to load sometimes too. Go to ‘searchers discussions’ then look for ‘odds and ends’ archived as an experiment.

  107. Here’s a Seven Falls theory:

    1) Pirate “clews” like “square/thief knot”, “folly = Foley”, “Captain Kidd” + “Buzzard Scrapbook post” –> La Buse Treasure –> Ranomafana, Haute Matsiatra (ranomafana = hot/warm water in Malagasy) –> probable rebus of “Ramona Falls halt” in Seven Falls, Colorado Springs. He had a scrapbook post of telephone cord getting all tangled, and he scrambles butterfly.
    2 through 7 –> the names of the falls… if used in alphabetical order I’m able to do it, but I can’t seem to make it fit in order of the falls. Something here makes me think of TS Eliot and time folding and a Walsh function (see frieze group later).
    8) Pillars of Hercules (about 42 feet across depending on source, one of these is George Washington’s profile facing left) <– TTOTC Buffalo Cowboys is an example of one of the 12 Labors. Another is "the poem is strait forward", and John Charles with green olives = Juan Carlos I, King of Spain, and Gibraltar. The other rock is in Cueata (seven). Fenn uses "prudent", like "get a piece of the rock".
    9) exit (worth the cold is a frieze group and architectural pattern like Schoenflies notation, rainbow / Bifrost is the exit sign with a message using the word "portal")

    The attraction also has many other word correlations to TTOTC, like "Alligator's Head", "Mexican Saddle", "Aspen Groves Picnic Area", "Three Amigos", an old Ponderosa tree over 450 years old, signs with lightning danger, a feature called Covered Wagon with a sign suggesting Far Ridge and Gateway to Heaven, and Helen Hunt Jackson's grave marker (but not her remains)… Helen (torch) Hunt (chase) Jackson (son of Jack, life is a game of poker).

    And the general area around the park has some interesting word correlations like "Old Stage Rd.", "Frosty's Park", "Santa's Workshop", "Pinon", "Vietnam Veteran's Memorial Highway", "Academy", so on and so on for as long as you want to keep linking stuff. It's all good fodder for remembering memoir stories.

    Also, there may be some connection to the seven Millennium Problems, and its coincidental $1M prize for each solution. I see familiar names and words there, too.

    I think the area just outside the attraction is public land but moves back into private land again. I checked inside at a few locations. The HHJ marker is closed until July because they're constructing zip lines. The amusement attraction and Old Stage Road were closed for a bit to repair for floods ("I think it's wet"), and it changed hands from the Hill family to The Broadmoor. Near the hotel they have a few Brownstones they rent out for $8K per night, so do reserve early.

  108. I forgot to mention the fire escape correlation… the steps up were brutal.

  109. Also related to Ramona and Helen Hunt Jackson is Helen Hunt Falls. At this fall is a rock sign for “Bruin Inn”, or home of Brown, where the former Tenney home burned in the 50s. We passed an old sign of how extremely dangerous the rocks are (we weren’t meek). We hiked up the hill on the left, we were brave and took a side path continuing left at a bench where a sign warned us not to go. The unmarked trail led first to a promontory to see the parking area below, but then down to a peaceful vail with several trees, a big stone where people are leaving dimes, flowers, and what looks like lace hanging in trees. I don’t know why. We didn’t go up further for marvel gaze, so we may have missed it completely. But of specific interest is either a mark or a shadow, I can’t tell which, of Running Man (Scrapbook 23) on the cliff side at 38°47’13.34″N, 104°54’19.70″W.


    I have been going on the assumption that “heavy loads” are “heavy lodes”

    This makes sense to me because this definition would tie in nicely with “warm water halts” If I understand correctly, it takes warm water such as a spring or geyser along with high water and pressure to create lode gold or silver.

    “In geology, a lode is a deposit of metalliferous ore that fills or is embedded in a fissure (or crack) in a rock formation or a vein of ore that is deposited or embedded between layers of rock.[1] The current meaning (ore vein) dates from the 17th century, being an expansion of an earlier sense of a ‘channel, watercourse’ in late Middle English, which in turn is from the 11th-century meaning of lode as a ‘course, way’”.[2] (

    “The generally accepted hydrothermal model of lode deposition posits that metals dissolved in hydrothermal solutions (hot spring fluids) deposit the gold or other metallic minerals inside the fissures in the pre-existing rocks.[3] Lode deposits are distinguished primarily from placer deposits, where the ore has been eroded out from its original depositional environment and redeposited by sedimentary forces.[4] A third process for ore deposition is as an evaporite.” (

    “I was looking at lode gold or silver in the Rocky Mountains, I came across one location where there was and still are gold and silver lodes. There are quite a few locations where this happens. One place caught my eye because it is named after a Ute Indian chief, Ouray. The town of Ouray is in Colorado and it is known for the indian history as well as the mining and hot springs. Don’t stop reading if you are not searching in Colorado, because as it turns out, Ouray has ties to New Mexico and Wyoming as well.” (”

    Ouray means “the arrow”, which is of course interesting because of course FF first became interested in artifacts when he found his first arrow head.

    “According to oral history passed down by Ute elders, he was born on a gloriously clear night when a magnificent display of meteor showers streaked across the black winter sky. The elders believed it was a sign; a message from above of good things to happen.”

    “Ouray’s mother was a member of the Uncompahgre band of Ute and his father, Guera Murah, was half Jicarilla Apache. Ouray grew up in the Taos area where Spanish and English were the prevalent languages and would not learn to speak the Ute and Apache languages until later in life. He spent most of his youth working for Mexican sheepherders and fighting against rival Sioux and Kiowa. “(

    “When his father died in 1860, Ouray became chief of the Ute Indians, including the Uncompahgre band. In Ouray’s role as chief, he was considered one of the Utes’ greatest leaders with strong characteristics of patience and diplomacy. He was often referred to as “The White Man’s Friend,” as he sought to work with the white settlers and the government.” (

    “With the discovery of gold in Colorado, conditions for the Ute changed dramatically as miners flocked upon their lands. As a result, relations between the Indians and the whites deteriorated. In the spring of 1878, Nathan Meeker assumed the role of Indian Agent at the White River Agency. “Dictatorial” in his brand of management, Meeker undiplomatically tried to force the Ute to farm, raise stock, discontinue their pony racing and hunting forays, and send their children to school. Meeker, determined to convert the Ute from primitive savages to hard-working, God-fearing farmers, persisted in forcing his reforms, even when warned that he was making the Utes furious. But Meeker ignored the warnings and ordered that a horse racing track be plowed under to convert to farmland. He also suggested to one that there were too many horses, and that they would have to kill some of them. The Ute, whose land Meeker was plowing under, resisted and a fist-fight occurred.” (

    “As a result, Meeker wired for military assistance, claiming that he had been assaulted by the Ute man, driven from his home, and severely injured. The government responded by sending 200 troops led by Major T.T. Thornburgh.”(

    “However, perceiving this action as an “act of war,” the Utes revolted. On September 29, 1879, before the troops arrived, the Indians attacked the agency, burned the buildings, and killed Meeker and nine of his employees. The incident is known as the Meeker Massacre. Meeker’s wife, daughter, and another girl were held as captives for 23 days. After the massacre, relief columns from Forts Fred Steele and D. A. Russell, Wyoming, defeated the Utes in the Battle of Milk Creek, Colorado, and ended the uprising.” (

    Though Ouray had sent orders to the Ute band involved in the attacks to stop, his orders were ignored. Afterwards, he did his best to keep the peace but it was too late. Area settlers demanded the Utes’ removal. One headline in the October 30, 1879 issue of Harpers Weekly screamed “The Utes Must Go.” (

    “In 1868, he (Ouray) traveled to Washington, D.C. to represent his people and was appointed “head chief of the Utes” by the government. A new treaty created reservation lands in Colorado for the Tabeguache, Moache, Capote, Wiminuche, Yampa, Grand River, and Uinta, but again, more land was relinquished.”(

    “In the summer of 1880, Ouray and his wife, Chipeta, journeyed to the Southern Ute agency at Ignacio with the intent to negotiate once again with the white man. Though Ouray completed the journey, he was a sick man by the time he arrived. He died of Brights Disease on August 24, 1880″(

    Most of the treaties set up between the white man and the Ute indians, as well as other Indian tribes, came about because the white man wanted the gold which was discovered on Indian lands. In the end, the Ute people were sent to a reservation and the whites got “title to the gold”

    Now as I mentioned earlier, Ouray and his wife Chipewa had ties to New Mexico. He was born in Taos. Because the Ute people migrated to various areas of the Rocky Mountains, they lived in New Mexico part of the year, Colorado, and also Wyoming.

    Uncompahgre= WARM WATER SPRINGS
    Ouray was the chief of the Uncompahgre band of Utes although he worked to help all Ute people remain peaceful with the white man. There are a couple of different definintions given for Umcompahgre. It is believed by many that it means “warm water springs”

    There are a number of areas near Ouray Colorado which are named for the Umcompahgre. There is a very interesting plateau. More on that in a minute.

    Could WWWH mean something other than water?
    What if WWWH is referring to a group of people (Uncompahgre Ute=warm waters) halting in their migration across the Rocky Mountains?

    It was interesting to me to find out that the Ute tradition of burying the dead was to place them in a narrow opening of rock like a slot canyon. There are numerous slot canyons scattered throughout the Ouray and Umcompahgre plateau areas. When ouray died, he was taken by braves on horseback and placed “secretly” in a slot canyon where he was buried upright on his saddle along with his personal possessions. It was many years later that his bones were removed and placed near Ignacio Colorado where a monument stands. I remember that in TTOTC, FF talked about Skippy’s death and said they should have buried him standing up. Like Ouray?

    After Ouray’s death, his wife Chipewa went on to represent the Ute people in working for peace. She was known as “wise woman”. Interestingly, her name means “white bird singing” Take a look on pg 146 of TTOTC. This picture shows a “white bird” sitting on a crescent moon” The moon has some significance to the area of Ouray, Colorado. More on that in another posting.

    As I mentioned, slot canyons were used to bury the Ute dead. Chiefs were buried with all of their valuable possessions. Remember how FF wanted to go with his treasure chest and leave the poem to tell the finder to take the chest and leave his bones? Interesting. . .

    Slot canyons were common in the Ouray and Uncompahgre areas of Colorado as well as in the areas where this tribe lived during other parts of the year, in New Mexico and Wyoming. If I understand it correctly, the slot canyons are formed by a complicated combination requiring “high water” and often hot springs over long periods of time. The slot canyons are very fascinating. Many are beautiful. I noticed something in TTOTC , Chapter- Looking for Lewis and Clark. On p 62, it says, “We decided to follow a fast-running stream”, “Gradually, that little stream got narrower and narrower and deeper and deeper until it developed vertical sides that nothing could get through but water.” Sounds like a slot canyon to me!

    On the same page, FF talks about “Donnie’s right stirrup broke and he had to ride on one foot. Well, that was it. He got real serious about being mad and lost at the same time. ”

    Compare Donnie’s scenario with something I found in the history of the Uncompahgre Ute history, and to chief Ouray. Apparently, the Utes had dances to celebrate numerous events as well as times of year. There is a dance that is no longer used by the Ute people, but it seems to tie into the poem as well as into the story about Donnie’s stirrup breaking.

    “Lame Dance
    The action of the Lame dance was described as that of a man
    lame in the right leg. The motion was forward and the right foot
    was dragged as though it were crippled.” (

    The dance is also to symbolize having to pull or carry heavy loads of loot after a raid.

    The dance is specifically to be performed by the women following a battle in which the men have been either killed or “crippled”. The dragging of the right leg represents being injured and the dance is to represent the men returning injured from battle. It also represents them bringing home the spoils of battle. The dances themselves having fallen into disuse. Only women danced the Lame dance.

    Now this dance caught my eye because another meaning of the word, Halt is “lame” or “crippled”. So there is possible connection both to the poem and to the book TTOTC p 62.

    More information on the Lame Dance states this. “In all the Lame dance songs the accompanying drum is in quarter notes, following slightly after the voice. This does not appear in any other songs recorded among the Utes and may be considered a characteristic of the Lame dance.

    Notice that the drum music of the Lame dance is different than the pattern of all of the other Ute dances and songs. It is unique. Notice that the stanza of the poem which talks about WWWH is different than all of the other stanzas. The words “halt” and “walk” do not rhyme like the other lines in the poem do. Is this a suggestion that the word “halt” is connected to “walk”, as in “lame” or “crippled walk”? Just a thought to consider.

    One source of information on the Lame Dance had this to say, “Tim Johnson recorded this song which contains only one word (Tsiyuta) said to be the Shoshoni term applied by them to the Utes. The melody has a compass of 11 tones and more than half the intervals are smaller than a minor third.” (

    And then there is the interesting sentence on p 60 of the same chapter of TTOTC. “I found that riding behind the saddle on Lightning’s warm, soft, furry, rump helped some but he didn’t like it much and kept doing some FUNNY DANCE STEP that I didn’t completely trust. FUNNY DANCE STEP makes me think of the “Lame DANCE”

    One more point that I wanted to cover in regard to the area of Ouray Colorado. Could it tie into the dichotomy theme to this poem. If you missed my discussion of dichotomy, you might want to look it up. FF likes Dichotomy!

    There is some interesting dichotomy in the landscape near Ouray, Colorado.

    There is a canyon atop the Uncompahgre Plateau that is called “Unaweep Canyon”, meaning “canyon with two mouths” “Unaweep Canyon is a geologically unique canyon that cuts across the Uncompahgre Plateau, Mesa County, in western Colorado. It is unique because two creeks, East Creek and West Creek, flow out of opposite ends of the canyon, separated by the almost imperceptible Unaweep Divide. DIVIDE is another term for DICHOTOMY. And a dichotomy in the landscape is something that divides into two separate, but equal parts. The Unaweep Canyon is a dichotomy. And it is said to be the only canyon in the world with two rivers flowing in opposite directions. It is a dichotomy.

    There is another place just outside of Ouray, Colorado that is also a dichotomy. It is the half moon basin. A dichotomy in astronomy is “the phase of the moon or of an inferior planet when half of its disk is visible.” ( There is also a “Half Moon Creek” in the same vicinity and both are located right next to “Full Moon Basin” which I found to be very interesting.

    I have found some other areas in other states which also tie to the Ute people and these places also are dichotomies. More on that another day.

    “Begin it” ?
    Apparently the Ute Indians claim to have originated from the area of “Garden of the Gods”, Colorado which is considered to be a sacred place. The Ute Indians referred to themselves as the “Brown Storytellers” Could it be that “Home of Brown” is a reference to the place of origin of the Brown Storytellers”? Actually I don’t think it is, but I’m tossing it out there for consideration. I have a couple of other places near Ouray, Colorado that nicely fit “Home of Brown” and they aren’t Jim Brown Hill, Brown Mtn.

    So, I just thought I would share some interesting information I have come across. I don’t know if it fits in with the poem, but there certainly are some interesting possibilities.

    • Hello Puzzled. You’ve done excellent research. I had considered “Garden of the Gods” as a place to look. I’d like to go there just to experience the place; only driven by it many years ago.

    • I was reluctant to read all that but glad I did and would like to share some of my knowledge of Colorado. When reading this post you kept mentioning the Ute Indians. In Colorado there is a Ute pass that the Ute Indians would use for trade and to get to hunting grounds. The thing that I found interesting was when you mentioned “Garden of the Gods”. If you follow Ute pass from Divide, Colorado it will lead you to garden of the gods. And now for some more that ties in with your research. Ute pass goes through a slot canyon one that floods like the way you have discribed. It has even folded recently do to a burn scar and washed away cars. If memory servers me correctly there are still some acivte gold mines in that area that has been know for high quality gold ore. There are lots of historical ties to that area. I believe there’s even an old historical mining town named after something “Crippled”. If you really feel your information will help you all of this info is worth researching.

      • Thank you Count. I have studied all of those things you have mentioned. I do think Cripple Creek is intriguing.

        • The Pikes Peak region is full of treasures. From rich minerals that can be pulled out of the ground in Lake George and Cripple Creek area. There’s a show called prospectors on weather channel that show a great prospective of this in current days. Florissant, CO has some great petrified wood outcropes. There are some great rock formation on some of the back roads around throes parts. If go there and get a chance take a drive down old gold camp road.

    • fantastic research Puzzled. it’s almost like you’ve written a thesis regarding the story. great read even for those who aren’t searching in this region. best of luck to you in your chase 🙂

  111. if your not trailing down the Madison river I suggest you put in below the home of the Brown. which is west Yellowstone national park. where ranger Brown lived and you might want to take a rafting trip down bear paw canyon.grab you a sandwich first at the deli.and make sure you walk around the kitchen sink which is a class five white. water.that 80 year old men can’t go..that should put you in warm springs for a nice rafting trip and when that trip is at the end of warm springs we can begin.I’ve told you. enough.make sure you wait till the snow has melted away and the river is low.and don’t get pawed by a grizzly like Joe meek did.just go to the bottom of bearpawtrap canyon and look around who knows what you mite find.good luck

    • Joey,
      Could be this Brown, maybe it’s the same Brown.

      Full text of “Superintendents of the Yellowstone National Park, June 1967”
      Gary N. Brown MM reassigned from Latsar Sub District Park Ranger CS-9-2 to

      Yellowstone National Park Rangers Gary N. Brown and
      Frederick T. Anderson were recent recipients of Valor
      Awards for their courageous efforts in saving the lives of
      injured and stranded mountain climbers in Yosemite National
      Park, California in 1965* These men were honored at the
      Department of the Interior Honor Awards Convocation, June 8,
      1967, in Washington, D. C,
      Great Bear Almanac
      (1993) by Gary Brown, former superintendent of Yellowstone National Park, includes
      unique lists of bear facts.

      YNP is no place for Joseph Meek now anyway.

      Like your research.

  112. Puzzled…You’ve thrown out quite a bunch of bones to chew on. Your logic and intuition seem to be equal partners. I shudder to think what you’re NOT telling us. You’re scaring me that this chase might end too soon.

  113. wow that’s interesting . Dal can you move that to looking in Co. Or someplace easier to find later.

    • Re: Puzzled post above dated April 3, 2016 at 10:37 A.M. or move it to the shared ‘Solves’ section, that was my take on reading it when it first posted…..IMO

  114. Musstag and Cholly-
    Apparently you missed the last several times that I’ve mentioned I cannot move comments to another place without changing the name of the poster to my own name. So I do not move other searchers comments..
    If they are inappropriate I delete them..
    However, the Nine Clues is the most appropriate place for that comment.
    If you think you are going to lose track of where it is I suggest a Post-It on your refrigerator door as a system to track all the important things you need to remember… 🙂

  115. Had a idea about what E.C. said about dead indians….. you might have to look quickly down as you walk by to see one. (Wedged in crevices of large rocks)

    • @Musstag, eh? Not following… I don’t remember making a comment about “dead Indians”.

    • My comment about the Indians was specific to the Ute people. Not sure why you would need to look quickly down to see the slot canyons the Ute people used to bury the dead. But, since you mention “look quickly down”, I will add that I don’t believe that FF wants us to actually look quickly down. I don’t think he is talking about an action we will do. I think this phrase points to a word that means “look quickly down”. That word has other meanings that imo apply to the poem.

  116. IMO, if u do not have blaze as one of your clues u will never find the TC and if u r not wise u will never know what the blaze is…Good luck to all who seek the TC and may your adventures be spectacular and safe

    • Woody,
      The blaze is a clue as Forrest stated.
      Some have not realized this, but only hurts them minus one clue, the most important one. I’s possible to not have this last clue & still find the treasure IMO.

  117. Perhaps the little girl from India can find the first two clues using a map of the Rocky Mountains.
    But there are obviously things she cannot locate from India using a map…the treasure is one…perhaps the blaze is another.
    When you’ve been wise AND when you’ve found the blaze…only then can you look quickly down and locate the chest.
    First you find clue one, then you find wwwh, the cd, the hoB, and the creek….THEN you must locate the blaze along that particular creek…etc, etc.
    But what is the blaze?? An FF in a tree? A waterfall? A rock Cairn? a petroglyph?

    Whatever it is…It needs to be relatively long lasting…100 to 1000 yrs…Does an FF on a tree last that long? Doubtful…So what am I looking for??? An out of place rock? (like Shawshank redemption?)
    Most likely a petroglyph or a waterfall…any other ideas?

  118. Michael D, and others,
    IMO the blaze is similar to a “V” shape; however, I’m still working on details.
    “Have flashlight and gloves, will travel”

  119. All,

    I only post this here to hopefully move everyone’s thought process in the chase forward. Everyone is so focused on identifying WWWH, but in my opinion if you do not have the first clue nailed down, you are just shooting in the dark. While I believe what I will post below is not giving away anything as far as my theory on the troves location it may get you in the write frame of mind.

    Forrest once said:

    “At my secret hiding place, as I was closing the chest for the last time, I felt part of me slip inside and become part of the treasure, or at least I thought I did. I’m okay with that now.f”

    Sound familiar??

    “As I have gone alone in there, and with my treasures bold,”

    What do you think Forrest is implying?

    Now take this same thought process and apply it to the last two lines of Stanza 1.

    I can keep my secret where, and hint of riches new and old.

    Is this line a statement?

    THINK, my friends THINK. Forrest has told us where “in there” is i cannot tell you the answer you must come to the conclusion on your own otherwise we learn nothing.

    “Give a man a fish…..”

    • Thanks for sharing your thoughts and the link. It really fits with something I’ve been considering today. Something from TTOTC just randomly popped into my head this afternoon. I thought about it and then went back to the book. I’m intrigued with how it fts your thoughts. If I was as literate as you, I could probably makes sense of it all.

      What is up with FF answer to the question from 7/7/2014 ? What did he aspire to that is no longer within his reach?

      • Puzzled,

        Great question, and in my opinion Forrest is no longer capable of “stealing away” to rest his bones on top / beside the trove. Either because of his age, family has talked him out of it, or we are all getting too close to finding his spot. You choose which.

    • L1,
      The fish is getting a little stinky here.
      Now, I know many think that begin does not mean start or where the first clue is.
      But, I think Forrest stated the poem is straight forward & he wasn’t playing any games.
      IMO, if you or anyone thinks “begin it where” or “begin” is not the beginning of the journey he wants you to take, then the meaning of “begin” must not be associated with start & must mean something different to it’s real meaning.
      To me, that would not be straightforward & let the games begin.
      Is this not straight backward?

      • Begin it / where warm waters halt

        Think of a one word homonym with both of these definitions. Begin as a verb is is a secondary descriptor. Begin as a definition is the real clue.

        So what word means both of these things? Hint: You can take it in the canyon down. It’s not far from now but too far too walk. The home of Brown trout resides below. It draws ever left. It’s up the creek. Tarry scant.

        Of course you need to understand every definition of every word. Most people miss that Halt means ‘stumbling haphazardly’ as an example.

        On a side note: I now think the only real way to solve this everlasting Fenn challenge to team up. Most people think they are on the cusp.. and so greed sets in. But I’ve been on the cusp so many times that I now relent: This needs more heads than mine. Many folks, me included will not give our best stuff to a chat board. Think of the brainpower this truly obsessed group could muster in close collaboration…

      • So Jake you’re saying that WWH is “the” beginning? Ok … how do you pick the correct wwwh out the many in the RM’s without a clue to tell you where to start? The journey of the searcher maybe to find the WWH, yet if we don’t have another clue to where that is… we’re back to throwing darts.

        IF the clue that explains where we start our journey tell us where the WWH is, would that not be the beginning of the clues, hence the know where to start comment? The beginning?

        Just an example; if WWH was a dam how do we know which dam to start at, unless there is a clue prior to tell us. That clue would be the eliminator to guessing which of the many WWH [ in this case which dam] and must be the beginning of the clues.

        Two beginnings; one, the understanding where, and two, what it is we’re looking for to start at.

        It doesn’t matter if it’s a dam, a river, a water fall or anything else for WWH ~ that is what is needed to be found. We still need a clue to give us that location.
        No wait… my bad… that means WWH would be the second clue… that can’t be right.

        • Seeker – well stated; from a logical reasoning perspective, it makes complete sense and is hard to argue it is wrong. The rationale is that we need to know the general area of wwwh so we can then figure out which of the many wwwh in the RM’s we need to start at.

          It’s like trying to figure out the capital city of a certain state; 50 choices, but which one? We don’t know unless we know the state, then we will know the city. But is knowing the state a clue or just a hint or help? And more importantly, is knowing the state the only way to know the city?

          Think about and consider this write up from f:

          One thing Fenn will say is that most people are missing the most important clue; “begin it where warm waters halt”. When you solved this clue, he shared, and the others will fall into place. “If you don’t know ‘where warm water halts’, Fenn said, “you don’t have anything.”

          The logic we started with is that we need a general place to point us to wwwh so that wwwh falls into place, but f is saying here that it is specifically wwwh that we need to solve and then the other clues will start to fall into place. f does not say to solve some other clue first that will then cause wwwh to fall into place.

          This would seem to imply that you don’t need to know which state, you just need to solve, figure out, decipher, learn, unlock, etc. what the clue is that tells you which state capital you are trying to figure out. If the state capital clue is “it is hard to run a mile here”, you could put enough thought and imagination into it and eventually come up with Denver. You don’t need to know the state, the clue itself gives you the specific place. It nails it down very precisely. But you must solve/learn/understand what the clue means. That process is NOT just coming up with some rational meaning of some words stuck together, which is what many people do.

          So what is it that gives the understanding of or helps us unlock the meaning of wwwh? Is it the first stanza? Hints in the book? A word that is key? We know that many people have correctly solved the first clue (but they didn’t know that they did), then most missed the other clues and that only several have got more than the first clue correct (and yes, those too didn’t know they were right). Why?

          Is it because they didn’t have the right ingredients to finish making their cake? f tells us we need all the ingredients if we want to have a cake when we are done baking it or you will just have a nice vacation or you should just stay home and play Canasta (lesson in cake baking: leave out any ingredients or use the wrong quantities and you will not have a cake when you are done).

          So your ongoing question remains, what is it that gives us the understanding of what wwwh is? What is it that has allowed so many people to get the first clue correct (but were prevented from knowing or having much, if any, confidence that it was correct)? And is it really all that difficult to get the first clue correct?

          I think f has laid the process out for determining how to approach the chase, but it turns out that he is not kidding about the whole process of solving all 9 clues as being really difficult and that it will take many years to accomplish.

          Read this through several times and let the various thoughts and ideas sink in. I am not looking for any specific responses or answers, it’s just more dialogue as we continue beating this horse which is certainly long dead by now.

          • “So your ongoing question remains, what is it that gives us the understanding of what wwwh is?” I think it’s more a “where” question, rather than a “what” question. Just my take on that.

            BTW, it’s harder to run a mile in the capital city of NM, which is almost a 1/2 mile higher in elevation than Denver. ‘-)

          • Good discussion points, JCM. As far as your question about unlocking the meaning of WWWH, I think he told us that a long time ago, but perhaps most have forgotten: “What I recommend is that you read my book, normally. Then you read the poem over and over and over again. And think about every line. Read it 4, 5 or 10 times. And then go back again and read the book, slowly, looking for hints in the book that will help you with clues in the poem.”

          • JMC- I your post from April 12th. You mentioned something I have thought over for quite a while. “We know that many people have correctly solved the first clue (but they didn’t know that they did)”

            Is it possible that what FF is really saying is the following?
            Could the people have discovered the location that the first clue directs them to, but they arrived there by a different method. They chose the place because they felt it was WWWH, and it is, but not using the same definition that FF used in the poem? Does that make sense? So if you arrive at the place because you have decided it is WWWH, but you aren’t using the same definition of WWWH as FF used, then you don’t really understand the poem the way it was intended to be understood and you just got lucky that your solution to WWWH happened to land you in the same place as FF definition of WWWH. Without understanding definition as FF intended it, then you will never be able to understand the other clues and would walk past them every single time.

            Really would love someone else’s opinion about this.

          • @Puzzled – I’ll bite.

            For demonstration purposes only, let’s please first assume Seven Falls is the correct solution. Using probabilities in a population set of 65,000 separate email sources, and judging from the traffic this location receives, it is actually quite possible that a small union set has emailed Fenn about their vacation trip to Colorado Springs area, including Seven Falls, but did not understand why this is (hypothetically for demonstration) where warm waters halt (e.g. had not linked Ranomafana, Haute Matsiatra through La Buse and Ramona Falls). It is a popular location with some great falls in a canyon, and will end up on a lot of cameras.

            I speculate that when he talks about solving the first four clues, perhaps he’s talking about people finding themselves at the attraction and linking to the first four lines of the poem, which (in my opinion) are using synonyms and homonyms to direct the seeker to So. Cheyenne Canon, Seven Falls. I speculate this because I can’t imagine having gotten to the fourth clue at this location without having previously solved the 5th clue, the blaze (in my opinion), using available online resources.

          • Puzzled, I can totally accept your premise. In fact, I think it’s quite possible I may have been one of those people you refer to!

          • Puzzled,

            Do expect that people will somehow *know* for sure once they have found the first clue?

            No, many people have found the first clue but they didn’t know it. Until someone finds the treasure they will not know for sure that they have discovered the first clue.

            determiner, pronoun, & adjective
            determiner: many; pronoun: many; adjective: many; comparative adjective: more; superlative adjective: most

            a large number of.
            “many people agreed with her”
            synonyms: numerous, a great/good deal of, a lot of, plenty of, countless, innumerable, scores of, crowds of, droves of, an army of, a horde of, a multitude of, a multiplicity of, multitudinous, multiple, untold; More
            several, various, sundry, diverse, assorted, multifarious;
            copious, abundant, profuse, an abundance of, a profusion of;
            informallots of, umpteen, loads of, masses of, stacks of, scads of, heaps of, piles of, bags of, tons of, oodles of, dozens of, hundreds of, thousands of, millions of, billions of, zillions of, gazillions of, bajillions of, a slew of, a boatload of, more —— than one can shake a stick at;
            literarymyriad, divers
            “many animals were killed”
            antonyms: few

            plural noun: many

            the majority of people.
            “music for the many”
            synonyms: people, common people, masses, multitude, populace, public, rank and file, proletariat, mob; More
            derogatoryhoi polloi, (common) herd, riffraff, rabble, great unwashed, proles, plebs
            “the issue of sacrificing the individual for the sake of the many”
            antonyms: few


            Again i believe the First Clue is in Stanza 1 and “many” people have gotten this correct.

          • litterate1,
            How do you calculate “many”?

            If you’re talking 1000, many can be 300.
            if you’re talking 65,000, many can be 30,000
            If you’re talking 5, many can mean 3

            This reminds me of the crime rate… an area of 1000 populaces has 100 crimes, that’s 10% crime rate. if the same area increases it’s populaces to 2000, and the crimes committed are 200… did the crime rate go up?
            It looks like it did by double, or 20%, yet if the population is factored in it stayed the same…

            “Nearly all” is another conundrum to figure out… all that “many” and “nearly all” really tells us… there’s more than two.

          • Seeker,

            Great question. I define many as, more than two, much more. So i believe many (a lot) of people have figured out the first clue and in my opinion it is obvious.

            I can keep my secret where, and hint of riches new and old.

            But, only several have mentioned the first two clues to Forrest in an email and then went right past the other seven.

            The one searcher who came within 200ft may have solved the first four clues but Forrest cannot be certain.

        • Seeker and all that need a clue, in the first stanza.

          Seeker: “We still need a clue to give us that location.”
          No you don’t.
          What you need is the word that is key in order for you to not need a clue in the first stanza & give you an idea of a vast location that he loved. This will eliminate about 99% of all warm waters halt north of Santa Fe.

          So, what is the word that is key? Is it a clue? A hint? A location? A key?
          I think the word that is key is not a clue, but part of a clue & I don’t think Forrest ever mentioned about the key word needing to be in any order, unlike the clues, so it can be anywhere in the poem.

          The key word I have found is in the middle of the poem & only exists in the Yellowstone area including Yellowstone National Park & Montana of course.
          IMO OK?

          I will elaborate more, but something tells me, you will assume this key word is a clue.
          I have about 50 messages in my in box & need to catch up. I will be back.

          • That’s fine Jake… a word that is key, is a word that is important to know. If it’s important to know or you can’t find WWH without knowing it, that should tell you it’s a clue. You say you think the word that is key is ‘part of a clue’… and… it’s in the middle of the poem…ok. If anything is part of a ‘clue’ , it’s a clue!

            Is WWWH a clue to you? if so, warm is part of it, waters is part of it, halt is part of it… a clue. Unless you think there are three clue there… I’m not sure what ya think, but if anything is ‘needed’ to be known, that is a clue.

            I won’t argue what order anything is found in… but again, if you can’t find the correct place without it… what else is it?

          • Seeker,
            Some of Forrest’s clues appear to be lines in the poem.
            There are words in the lines that are components to make up the clue.
            Each word by itself without the other words are not helpful in this case.
            So, you need all the words in such lines of the poem to make a clue.
            I think there was a quote by Forrest explaining it better than I.

            It’s not a clue, but a component of one. There’s a difference IMO.

            We are Homo Sapiens, but if you start removing some of the components whether intangible or not, I think the label is lost.

          • i disagree with you Jake. Not every clue needs to be a complete phrase or line from the poem. You are twisting FF words and insisting that everyone agree with you. If you had the word that is key, this whole poem would make more sense to you. IMO But you are entitled to your opinion.

          • Puzzled,
            Sorry if I said that every clue is a phrase.
            I don’t think every clue is a group of running words.
            The “blaze” is a clue.
            “I mean there’s people driving down the street looking for a blaze, because that’s one of the clues.”

            We all seem to twist things a little to our liking.
            I definitely don’t want everyone to agree with what I say. That would be very creepy IMO.

          • In my opinion, the word that is key is “secret”, in the first stanza, because that is a synonym of “key”. Taking it further, using synonyms and homonyms with “secret” can get one to “Ceuta”, which in my opinion, actually does unlock the rest of the poem by providing a location.

          • Jake,
            You just said it… If we remove any components of a clue, there’s no clue to be usable. So if, as you say, the word that is key is part of a clue… and if it’s not a clue but a component of … Wait ! What ? lol.

            If it’s “needed”… it’s a clue… part of, piece of, by it’s little lonesome, in the beginning, middle or end… it’s a clue.

          • Seeker,
            I think your missing the point here as usual.
            You do not need a clue in the first stanza to give a location of WWWH.
            I think there is a word that is key that can be anywhere in the poem that will give you location.
            Am I correct?
            A straightforward, yes or no will do.

            Why didn’t Forrest say the key word is a clue?
            He would not be giving anything more away by saying this.
            But he didn’t IMO.

    • I think he meant his autobiography and a strand of hair or a follicle for his DNA. Many think “riches new and old” means NM… Did you get something else? Bold is related to Bald etymologically I think.

    • According to what I am seeing (in my opinion), I believe he means his ghost. This is in accordance with how to interpret the final clue (brave and in the wood).

    • Thanks LitterateOne,

      //**** DISCLAIMER ****/
      These thoughts are my own and are not representative of this blog, Dale, FF, Donald Trump, Ted Cruze, or Hillary Clinton. PS. I did hear that Bernie is also looking for the treasure.

      First two lines of stanza 1:
      What is F implying = He is implying part of him died when he closed the lid, but part of him will live for ever with the auto bio and the treasures being passed on through out history.

      Last two lines of stanza 1:
      Is this a statement? = Hmm… a question with an answer? as you said we know where “where” is. its “in there”.

      my treasures = memories,thoughts(bio),experiences
      my secret = The treasure’s secret is it’s location or the “key” to finding me by way of WWWH.
      my trove = haven’t thought too much about this one… quick thought is the real treasure

      So, if the secret is “in there” then we must look in there for the answer. And the answer will considerably cut the down the area to look for WWWH.

      Am i on the right track? so what’s next.
      I. Review what’s in the box to see if a piece of treasure can help.
      2. Think about what “And hint of riches new and old” means.
      3. Take a good hard look at the newly framed 24×30 map #11 out of 250!

      PS. Its still hard for me not to think this is telling you to look in TTOC. at–> list of treasure, Captain Kidd, Gardiners island and the map of New Mexico.

      Thank you to those who have stressed to solve stanza one.
      I am loving this Chase!

      • Arca:

        //**** DISCLAIMER ****/
        These thoughts are my own and are not representative of this blog, Dale, FF, Donald Trump, Ted Cruze, or Hillary Clinton. PS. I did hear that Bernie is also looking for the treasure.

        I about fell out of my chair with that one, thanks for that, I’m still smiling :).


        You are, in my opinion fishing well. But focus just a little more.

        I can keep my secret where, And hint of riches new and old.

        Turn this line into a question and ask it.


        my treasures = memories,thoughts(bio),experiences
        my secret = The treasure’s secret is it’s location or the “key” to finding me by way of WWWH.
        my trove = haven’t thought too much about this one… quick thought is the real treasure

        You, in my opinion and definition of these three are close, but they are separate things.

        Go back and listen to:

        Pay close attention to his response to a question about why he choose the items in the chest.

        Reel her in Arca!

  120. Jake;

    The search MAY begin at “Begin”, but if you are to get to the Treasure, you need to start at line #1, stanza #1.

    “As I have gone alone in there
    And with my treasures bold,,
    I can keep my secret where,
    And hint of riches new and old”

    This stanza has meaning, and should not be ignored.

    Just my opinion


    • The first stanza is clearly an introduction of what Forrest has done with the treasure & what’s inside the chest. There is no mention of “you” in this stanza & only “I” is mentioned here (as in Forrest) & the only hint here is the word hint which is all straight forward.

      When I first started the chase, I saw clues & hints everywhere in the poem, but decided to pick them apart & always ask the questions why?
      I had allot of time to do this unlike many others, plus, my way of solving any problem is eliminating the things it is not first & then you are left with fewer possibilities to what it actually is based upon all his writings & interviews.

      Problem solving should always start by eliminating what it is not first, as opposed to what you think it is. Unfortunately most are wired to think what it is. I am not one of them.

      So, when someone of integrity like Forrest states that the poem is straight forward & was not playing games.
      You should be able to cross allot of your opinions off the list, because he eliminated the BS, if you believe him????
      I do.

      Good luck with your rabbit holes.
      Know the process of solving problems.
      All in my process of elimination opinion.

      • Jake,
        Jeremy P shared quite a bit of his solve which was very much about poetry leading to a solve. Your approach seems more direct, analytical in reducing noise and discovering from within the poem the clues. Do you feel that your approach is quite distinct from JPs?

    • I agree with JD. The first stanza is essential. Without it, you are just plain lost.

    • I agree J.D. IMO- stanza 1 does have meaning, IMO it has double meanings ( maybe double double meanings that are too deep for me to figure out, but only one clue) as does much of the poem. I don’t think that WWWH can easily be figured out without figuring out stanza 1 first.

    • @JD, I absolutely agree with you. In fact, I believe the first stanza uses several synonyms and homonyms to direct the seeker to So. Cheyenne Canon, Seven Falls.

      @Jake, as for Fenn “playing games”, I suppose the definition would be needed before this can be arbitrarily eliminated. “Word play” is not necessarily a game, but it’s very clear this is what he has stated he is doing specifically in Scrapbook 107. “Straight forward” could be an actual giveaway to “Strait forward”, implying Pillars of Hercules and Ceuta. Otherwise, my English interpreter broke twice at your use of the word “allot”, so perhaps I have missed your other points on how to solve problems.

  121. @Mindy
    Hello Mindy, I’m not sure if you are currently frequenting Dal’s blog. Just wanted to say I had opportunity to read the piece you wrote about Eric Sloane and really enjoyed it. He and Forrest are remarkable men. If you don’t already own “Seventeen Dollars” it’s worth every penny in enjoyment!

      • Hello strawshadow – your avatar photo made me take a closer peek. Is that a bobcat on my backyard fence? ROFL!!

        • Howdy Neighbor, just don’t tell that pan handle cat her names bob, she might take offense at that.

          • Howdy Strawshadow – true story here… Not long ago we had a bobcat dining on a jack rabbit right on our front porch (in the middle of the city). I keep at ready my shot gun (aka Bebe gun). It may be your eye that gets shot out rather than Ralphie’s==**;-)

            OMG, before I “end up” at the bottom, Omega-ing myself into moderation, I’ll do a U-turn – quickly down under. Is there a Sharp comment in sight?

            Why is it that we don’t have a double-entendres page? Seams like it may hem/fence in the dividends or divi up the ends penned inside the keep as we fence with languishing languages while resting under a doubletree from a bye-gone era with ERA type women tilting the world while riding fence in the memoir lists. I do think Elenor of Aquitane once competed in the jousting lists. Amelia Earhart could have for certs. They both embodied confidence like Elizabeth I who straddled confidence and made a run at the Roses. Did she play fair when playing faro or was she a canasta type queen?

            Maybe our new Brit friend will understand my rambling.

    • Hi Lia,

      Thank you. When writing about Eric, it’s often hard to choose what quotes/paintings/philosophies to include, cause they’re all so good. Yes, I have Seventeen…it’s a great book. I think I have 10 or so of Eric’s books now and am very slowly building my collection. Like Forrest, when I buy old books now, I look for the unique ones. 🙂

  122. Jake,

    Again we disagree and that is OK. As Forrest has said before:

    “There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them. You over simplify the clues. There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts. f”

    SO how are we to determine which WWWH is the correct one? What is the big picture?


    Dear Forrest,

    You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:

    a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and
    b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”

    Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail? ~ Steve

    No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal? f

    So when making a cake or maybe using any recipe I believe we first need to know what size pan to use or how many servings the recipe will make so we can adjust if needed.

    So inorder to find the correct WWWH we need to know what size the pan is or how many the recipe will serve. and in my opinion the first stanza does this.

    Think, analyze and go with confidence.

    **PS, candor admits i cannot cook to save my life and the Apple TV remote mocks me from a hidden location somewhere north of my flat screen, to which my wife wonders why i search for this treasure.

    • L1,
      Key word here is confidence. How could anyone be confident about their recipe being palatable when your missing more than half the ingredients.
      I have to go make dinner now & will chew on this later.
      I hope the digestion works it’s way to the end.
      I may regurgitate tomorrow if it does not.

      • @Jake – in my opinion, and in my experience, and based on Fenn’s instruction, one should decide on a general location, get out and discover what’s at and around the general location, and have “aha” moments with what is there and how what is there connects to TTOTC stories and the poem. This process will absolutely generate the confidence needed that the clues are being followed correctly.

        For example, I have a photo after hiking down into Hully Gully and finding a rusted-out antique ice-box that was dumped into the drainage ditch by some idiot. Who knows how many decades it has been there? It looks similar enough like the contraption that Skippy was building that I had a moment connecting it to the story. I sent the photo to Dal for posting, if he gets the chance.

        As it turns out, the descriptions found in Looking For Lewis and Clark very closely match my experiences hiking through Hully Gully. It seems Fenn tries to emphasize this by needing to turn (the drop at the ledge requires repelling, he suggests turn right with the broken stirrup), and hinting (synonym for insinuated) by including the dance step and hands on one’s own butt. It is my opinion that Fenn’s continued references to his “Woolly” fly ties, as well as his referencing his brother as “Skippy” are closely related to Hully Gully.

        So, Jake, rather than sitting on your computer and typing all of your negativity to other theories, offering nothing useful, consider getting out into the fresh air and building confidence (or eliminating possibilities) to your own theories. I’d like to read them if they’re helpful.

        • Here’s the image link of the rusted-out antique ice-box in Hully Gully. It probably weighs a good 100 pounds or more. It seems to be iron and filled with maybe cement, or some other heavy insulator. The Fenn chest is not beneath it nor inside of it, nor anywhere near the very close proximity of it.

          Thank, Dal!

          • Huh. Maybe it’s not an icebox. At least it doesn’t look anything like the one a I remember my grandparents had (Yikes. I just dated myself with that). Kinda looks to me like an old-fashioned fire-proof safe with gypsum lining. What an odd thing.

          • @melanie – solved! Thank you! Someone tossed an antique safe into Hully Gully.

          • If it’s an old safe, maybe that hints at riches new and OLD? But, if it’s an old icebox, maybe that hints at worth the COLD? One or the other, or both? So many choices!

          • EC – OK, this is probably just crazy talk, but…. I was looking at your pic and wondering how/why the door is missing and why wouldn’t it have had a noticeable seal/gasket indentation around it’s perimeter. Plus, usually, old safes had rather elaborate bas-relief/trademark stuff on the front. So, that looks like the back of a safe, the side that would’ve been up against a solid wall, probably brick/masonry (built-in fire barrier). And probably also thought to be impenetrable. SO…..maybe some clever thieves accessed the back side of the safe from the adjoining space, cut thru the steel (note the uneven cut edge) and easily hacked thru the gyp (a chalky mineral) to get their hands on the goods? The safe is trashed now.

            I should’ve been Nancy Drew. HA.

          • @melanie – after looking at this photo a bit more and thinking about it, I wonder if someone nabbed a safe, cut open the side of it, grabbed the contents, and then tossed it into the ditch back on Old Stage Road. Another mystery, but still kinda humorous. Hopefully the prior owner was insured.

          • @EC some other heavy insulator– it’s called ‘asbestos’ lol! That ‘was’ a fire proof safe at one time for sure! Way cool. Stolen and torched into for the deed to the ranch…! IMO

          • That is in fact the back side of a burglarized money chest. Torched. I’ve been a safe technician for 36 years.

          • HA! Thanks Joe Bad. Taking another look at it, yep, you can see part of the front hinges facing the dirt. Would love to know the story behind this one.

          • Funny! It will be found in the general vicinity of 38°46’47.89″N, 104°52’21.60″W, a ditch known to locals as the top drainage of Hully Gully (and in my opinion, the exact land descriptions of the story of Looking For Lewis And Clark). One can also probably use binoculars standing on Old Stage Road to see it.

        • EC,
          I have made multiple failed searches as you & allot of others, so we are all in good company here.
          I give allot of credit to those who actually put BOTG including yourself to solve the nine clues. If you think I am offering nothing useful, then do what I do & stop reading when you don’t find anything that relates to your thinking & maybe take a parting shot on the way out.

  123. Jake,

    you said:

    The first stanza is clearly an introduction of what Forrest has done with the treasure & what’s inside the chest. There is no mention of “you” in this stanza & only “I” is mentioned here (as in Forrest) & the only hint here is the word hint which is all straight forward.

    I too once thought this way, not saying that you are wrong but to discount that there is no substance to this stanza and that it only states what the book obviously tells us already is just expensive folley.

    “I could agree with you but then we both will be wrong”

    As far as your mention of the word “hint” refer to my previous post above as to the 3rd and 4th line of Stanza 1.

    • LiterateOne…

      The biggest headache for me is deciphering whether each clue line break or each sentence nets the clue word (cake ingredients). You are saying that the first stanza sets these rules?

      I already have many ingredients. But without knowing whether clues lines or whole sentences net the relevant ingredients to use in the puzzle, I’m stuck. I understand the structure of the blaze and have some amazing blazes… but without knowing which are true, they can lead down many paths.

      If you think you know the rules of the recipe based on the first stanza…. I may be able to trade you the ingredients.


  124. Hey my post disappeared. I was saying how cool New Orleans was. We went on a cruise to Mexico that departed from there. Wonderful city with a lot of history. The coolest thing was how many street performers there were. It seem like there were street performers on every corner. From playing jazz to pop and lock dancers. It was real cool to see. I quess because Dal did not feel it was related to the search. Sorry. Okay so about the search… IMO I think TTOTC and maybe TFTW(not sure have not read it yet) will have good ideas on where we should begin. Maybe if we undestand all about Fenn and not just where his favorite place was as a child we may figure out WWWH is.

  125. Chris,

    Much appreciate your comment and offer. I have a complete theory on the location of the trove and will be proving this theory write or wrong very soon. I only offer thoughts and slight nudges to others in hope to move the chase forward. If my theory proves to be inacurate i will share it with the blog.

  126. Colorado River?
    Has this occurred to anyone?
    The headwaters of the COlorado begin at the ‘linear’ CD, then believe or not there is a road along-side the river & choo choo tracks much of the way down.

    The road numbers may change several times but if you look closely the name of the road is Colorado Headwater Byway.
    Don’t ask me about HoB, but coffee pot road and Deep Creek Rec site seem appropriate.

  127. I belive what ff meant when he said people have correctly identified the first clue but didn’t know it is he has seen the first clue correctly identified either in e mails or on this blog…some searchers have discussed in detail their ideas about what the clues are…and some of them have been right without realizing it. It is possible, for example, to say you believe I can keep my secret where to mean EYE can keep my secret where, and be correct, without knowing which eye or where that eye is …or maybe wwwh is the continental divide as many have guessed….but may not have known for sure…IMO

    • MichaelD. I’m trying to wean myself off this internet chase, thought you were also, and you were to make one more trip and hang it up. I know, I k ow, it’s hard.
      Anyhow, IMHO, how did you get so far off base to talk about what you posted above?
      This may be my last post for a while. WML and GLTY as well.

      • Before you folks hang it up (as I have recently contemplated as well), you should consider teaming up. This thing likely takes multiple brains. It’s been conjured and twisted for 15 years.

        My idea is to get a few obsessed Fennactics together and toss everything we know on the table. Contracts would be involved. Some booty is better than no booty.

        I have pages of clues and “solves” that seem valuable. Most have never been mentioned. It would kill me to give up only to find out later that one of these was correct. I’m sure you’ve thought the same.


  128. IMO

    As I have gone alone in there
    And with my treasures bold,
    I can keep my secret where,
    And hint of riches new and old.

    The journey begins at the start of the Santa Fe Trail in Old Franklin + New Franklin in Missouri (Forrest mentions Ben Franklin in TTOTC). The water there is salty = does not freeze (warm). The is a place on the Santa Fe Trail called Wayne City Landing = Forrest wrote about a guy named Wayne + Wayne is the city that the school in the Catcher in the Rye is based off of. Forrest’s website is called OldSantaFeTrail.

    Also there is a Town called Independence on the trail. Independence is a big theme to FF. William E. Brown Created in a map of the trail in the 1863 (you could say Warm waters is a metaphor for friendship…the North and South’s friendship ended around this time with regards to slave’s in the west)

    Maybe HoB is is related to William E. Brown….but it seems that you have to be on the ground to figure out HoB…

    Check out ….

    This is all IMO. Maybe this will intrigue someones interest.

  129. Seeker, JD, EC & all.
    After long deliberations in my mind & here & looking at my solve & going over all the things Forrest has stated, I think you guys are right about needing a clue in the first stanza if you think WWWH is the first clue.
    9 clues in consecutive order.
    Only needing the poem & must be a location or something that refers to a location in the poem.
    The word that is key must be a clue, because you need to figure it out.

    I am going to have to let my current solve fall to the way side.
    Which means I am going to have to get rid of at least one of my clues.
    I can’t get rid of:
    Begin it WWWH or take it in the canyon down.
    Never thought NFBTFTW was a clue anyway.
    Obviously cannot remove HOB.

    After thinking about this I decided to get rid of 2 clues that appear not to fit in my solve that well.
    I am going to get rid of “From there it’s no place for the meek” This appears to be straight forward to me.
    If your meek, you will not like this place.
    Getting rid of: “The end is ever drawing nigh;” Straight forward again. The end is ever drawing near.
    I did think the word that is key was “drawing” or petroglyph only found in Montana & Wyoming. I have mentioned this a few times on this blog & a few agree.

    So now I think the first stanza is pointing to Montana in the form of a clue.
    But I still need one more clue, maybe marvel gaze? I am not sure, will have to get some ideas here.

    Anyway, I thought of the odds weather my solve was right or not & from what I can see the odds still stayed the same at about 1 million to 1, so now is the time to tweak it further & possible improve my odds.

    • Hey, Jake from State Farm
      You can’t toss stuff out. IMO it’s those extras that lead to the right person being confident.

    • IMHO I would not discount nfbtftw as a clue because it gives you the distance from wwwh to hob. Forrest once walked 92 miles but he said in a question that 10 miles was tftw. This distance from wwwh to hob helps to confirm that you have found the right places! If I were you I would take out take it in the canyon down because this is just a simple instruction. It’s exactly 92 miles from my wwwh to my hob!

      • Have you considered that nfbtftw could be from WWWH to the blaze/chest? IMO HOB and WWWH are close together. After you put in and take it in the canyon and get to the “end” you will have traveled tftw.

      • Jeremy,
        You said: “It’s exactly 92 miles from my wwwh to my hob!”
        That seems like quite a far distance. I know it is possible & seeing he was a pilot for many years, it’s really not that far.

    • @Jake, nice work. I like reading these kinds of posts.

      Depending on what you are using as your set count, your odds might be:
      – known players, 65,000 : 1.
      – unknown players, who knows? 1M? Doubtful.
      – number of 10″x10″ points in the search area, above 5K’, below 10.2K’, using roughly 150K square miles, I think this is roughly 60 trillion (rounding) : 1.

      • I will agree with 65,000 – 60 Trillion to one EC.
        If I read the poem & understand it correctly, I should be getting closer to the chest.
        Not an easy task as we know.

        Sometimes my solve goes POOF & you need start somewhere again & not throw everything away & keep the clues you think are necessary that hold some connection to your imagination.

    • Jake, That’s dumb… if you dismiss your thoughts because of something I said, don’t blame me
      I have posted stanza 5 could be the first clue.
      I have considered tired and weak as the entire location.
      Just because I [ personally ] say something, it simply to make you or anyone else think of other possibilities… if it helps, I’m ok with that… if it leads ya away, I’m ok with that too…lol

      Questions posted 6/13/2014:
      You talk about how you worked on, and changed, the poem for many years. As you read it today, are you still completely content with the belief that someone will eventually understand and follow your poem precisely to the treasure?” ~ John
      Thanks John,
      I think your question is wrought from misinformation. I have no real feelings about when the treasure might or might not be found. But eventually sounds too far away. The treasure is there for the person who can find it and I think that person will be positive in their attitude and deliberate in their actions. No one has any secret information that will take them to the hiding place. It’s in the poem for all to see.f

      “It’s all in the poem for all to see”…. so ya better get back to all those research documents ya have save in your favorite places.

      • Not your comments that made me read the poem again & again. Even though we don’t need the poem, I will read the book again after reading the poem.
        I need to look at things in a different way.

    • Jake and All. Save this, to refer to.

      IMHO Forrest sees it as 9 sentences equal 9 clues. The key to this is that there are more than one type of result from each clue. The clue result you are used too is a direct location. I find it hard to explain the other type clue w/out using an actual example, which I just can’t.

  130. There is absolutely no doubt about the first clue being in stanza one IMO…the second clue begins at wwh…but it doesn’t end there imo…

    • Quick question – could it be a woman that has figured it out? The where, there, and it. Today’s words imply a woman is the cunning fox imo.

      • Recently Forrest was asked if it was a man or woman who had the fourth clue…he said it was a man. However he said a woman searcher had been close to it but didn’t know and that woman must email him regularly because he said if he told her that she would faint- I think but don’t quote me on that…I would like to know what women are searching in Montana who email or talk to Fenn regularly and where they’ve been!

    • Jeremy,

      If you subscribe to the idea that Forrest may consider each sentence in the poem as a clue (9 sentences = 9 clues) then the forth clue would end and “water high”.

      Remember Forrest said “Searchers have come within about 200 feet. Some may have solved the first four clues, but I am not certain.”

  131. Maybe Forrest would be so kind to answer this question. are all the clues are in the same state as the chest?

    • Yes it will be good if he answers that question but I doubt he ever will. Logic to me says no, they are not necessarily in the same state and probably not all are within the map given.

      His answer will be: ‘I have said that there are 9 clues in the POEM and that the treasure chest is hidden somewhere within the highlighted areas of my map’.

  132. IMHO A clue AND a concept, maybe thats the way to describe the other thing . He even tells you what he is going to do, but the way he describes it, is ‘proximaty’ not how it seems ……. you can’t see it in this stanza…..

  133. It seems by all the comments from ff regarding the first clue is that nobody has been able to decipher it. Some may have been close to the chest but they didn’t even know. It may have been accidental. He spoke confident to the fact that without it there is no search, and also to the fact that once that clue is known the rest will come much easier. So evidently after 5 years nobody has cracked it or they will have the bronze full o’ gold.

    I understand the consecutive order to follow the clues, but if I want to concentrate lets say on the first 2 should I completely block the rest of the poem? or does something on stanza 5 or 6 will help me understand my first clue for example? how do you understand it…

    • You asked some very good questions here-I understand the consecutive order to follow the clues, but if I want to concentrate lets say on the first 2 should I completely block the rest of the poem? or does something on stanza 5 or 6 will help me understand my first clue for example? how do you understand it…
      I’ve been asking myself similar questions and it does seem the first 2 clues are the most important and should be concentrated on the most until one has a confident answer. If one believes clues 3-9 can only be discovered from BOTG search than only a certain amount of time should be spent on thoes clues until one is on location. Location, location, location, it’s all about the correct location, that’s what a good business man will til you. Regardless if only the first 2 clues can be found without being on location it stands with reason that the first 2 will point to the general location. As for looking for possible hints to this general area within the latter half of the poem that just depends on how one looks at the poem.

      • @The Count…IMO you are 100% correct…Think about the little girl from India…If she(or any other child according to f in his comment to Dal about this) can get NO CLOSER to the treasure than the first two clues with confidence, then she CAN get at least that far…This is with good English skills, the poem, and a map as her only tools…If she can get the first two clues in the poem, then the map can show her where that location is…She can get no closer since she can’t journey there to find clue # 3…The location must be somehow named enough in the poem to ID it on a map…

        Once you get that far(two clues) then 3 – 9 should be directing your path once there…IMO

        • If this logic is correct it may be the best explanation why there has been so many fail attempts by searchers. Most go to search with all nine clues before there even out the door. This would take them to a location where the chest would not be because clues 3-9 would be incorrect. This could be very helpful for searchers that have been in the chase awhile, go back to old solves but go to the physical place of clue 2 and search for a different clue 3.

          • “Most go to search with all nine clues before there even out the door.”

            At first read is does seem that way. Hypothetical; I think know the first clue.. so I go there in hopes to figure out 7 or 8 more clues…
            Where is that confidence level at this point in time? How do we feel we have the one and only correct first clue? Is this all we need to know ~ to know beforehand, and move with confidence? It seems that just having the first clue doesn’t help, if all that is needed to do from there is walk out the other clues.

            We can make all the excuses we like… and we do have a lot of those… and while some make excuse why folks were at the first to clues, those searchers seem to have missed something or not understood something. As of late, some may have as many as 4 clues… maybe. yet again they don’t seem to know they do. Could it be they made a wrong turn… sure, but all of them? could it be they were just there sight seeing… sure, but all of them?

            Or could it be… they read the poem wrong from the start? Every one of them, by fenn’s comment did one thing the same… they kept going. walk passed, went by, etc. not knowing how close they were. My question is two folds, if you can have up to 3-4 clues, and the most critical first clue… what is it that they all missed. Directional travel? or Read the poem wrong?
            If they have up to 4 clues… why is it so unrecognizable to them? either beforehand OR in the field?
            What seems to be missing is… the know beforehand, the correct confidence and not false hope, know exactly what needs to be done to get to the location and know exactly what needs to be done when one gets there. That doesn’t say we have all the answers to the clues… but we should be able to know the answers when we see them in the field.

            Which brings us right back to the importance of the first clue… How do you know it’s the correct first clue? If we don’t have that nailed down we might as well stay home… oh wait! We won’t know if we have the first clue till the chest is found… lol… What wrong with these two comments?
            Better yet, what is right about these two comment?

            Those 12 or so questions should bring Loco out of his slumber … lol

          • I tend to think the first clue is the big picture such as how Jeremy P mentions. Would be a waste of time to go wandering around the desert not knowing where or when to go. (Using Moses metaphor analogy or whichever it is)

            I anagramed Keyword lews after reviewing Jeremy P’s thread article.

        • It’s always good to hit the refresh button… Fenn has repeatedly stated, go back to the poem, the information is in the poem, the first clues is critical, without the first clue ya got notta, etc.

          But what about the knowing beforehand… what about the, what took me so long? Is it as simple as knowing the first clue[s] and walking the other seven. Are the other seven being read wrong as well and leading us away… could the clues be a designed that we need to create and not just walk to. Folks have been at the first clue[s] and seemingly all walk/went by/ pass the chest.

          I see so many searchers asking about wwwh as a clue, canyon down as a clue, etc. My question is how many ‘clues’ does it take to get an answer?

          • Could it be that no one knew any of the clues, and he was again just hinting at the location by using the words “the other seven”?

          • EC.

            Sure why not, anything and everything is possible. Here’s a question… would you have even thought of your area if you never read a SB? I think that is an important question we should ask ourselves. While I can’t say for certain that SB’s don’t hold helpful thoughts… I need to draw the line that they don’t tell an answers.

            When I read the seven falls theory, it seemed to wrap around SB’s and after the facts more than the poem, it just makes me wonder if this was nothing more than an over use of imagination. That and private property… no sense getting into that here.

            But what makes more sense… Folks didn’t know they had the first clue[s] because the didn’t understand an after the fact? or they read the poem wrong and got to a location by an aberration in the book?
            What makes more sense… folks kept going on their travels because they didn’t understand the significance of where they were [ first two clues ] or they misunderstood a SB or any after the facts.

            Is this connection to all those after the fact comments because fenn feels he made the poem too hard, as some have suggested… or is it we are not concentrating enough on what we had from the start. You can argue that point either way really… it all depends on what you want to believe… But what makes more sense?

          • @Seeker, I’ll first assume your questions are rhetorical and intended to provoke thought.

            In my opinion, the more I build support for my theory, the stronger I feel it becomes. If you’re attempting to understand why Fenn continues to hint, the reasons might be many. If I assume my theory is correct, the park where I believe it sits is getting ready to become private property after a century plus. Another theory is that he genuinely wants this to be found. There have been a lot cruel naysayers. What better way to be smug than for a random blabber mouth to actually find the damned thing? Another theory is that after a while, to keep himself amused, he is giving out hints the same way he was before in his book, just kinda repeating or using new fun words he likes.

            How we get to the solution shouldn’t matter and perhaps the focus on this, the how, may be somewhat limiting your and maybe others’ opportunity. Lots of math problems have multiple paths to the same solution. The gist of the puzzle is to form a theory, then to prove it by first collecting enough evidence or correlation through discovery that can’t be gathered from a computer, and then to find it.

          • Is any specialized knowledge required to find the treasure? For instance, something learned during your time in the military, or from a lifetime of fly fishing? Or do you really expect any ordinary average person without your background to be able to correctly interpret the clues in the poem? ~mdavis19

            No specialized knowledge is required mdavis19, and I have no expectations. My Thrill of the Chase book is enough to lead an average person to the treasure.f

            Seeker, I sit and read comments all the time and I read yours which I tend to always find interesting. You seem like a well round guy with good thoughts and who’s comments seem to challenge others ideas. Don’t get me wrong, in a way that’s a good thing, this is why I posted Forrest comment above. I just want to throw some of my reasoning for some of questions asked and truly this is only my opinion.

            Forrest does stated above that the TTOTC book is enough to lead a average person to the treasure, not the poem alone, but to me the poem will take you there it just might be a little longer in your process of searching. As for hints in the book I have come across some that seem to back up the search area that the first clues take you to. I have also found out too that a few more of the hints are what I’ll call “after the fact hints” once you have solved most of the poem clues. As you see I said most of the clues, and the reason for that is not all can be solves with just the poem or, a good map, there is a trail to follow and I’m not referring to the one you walk on but there is one of them too. Forrest gives you that trail in the book he also has made statements in interviews, questions and answers, and scrapbooks along the way that also help following that trail. Again that’s maybe why he put “so hear me all, and listen good” into the poem. Yes he has said he’s not giving out any extra clues but “hints” that might be something else. Ok back to why not all clues can be solved, because one clue needs more then basic research to understand it’s meaning and this is why some have solved two but went by the rest. And there is one other clue that needs boots on the ground to solve because it can not be seen on any map or satillite view and I’m not referring to the “blaze”.

            Now as for “some may have solve three or four clues” but Forrest was not sure. Why not sure? He would have known a clue solve unless when someone wrote him they did not specifiy that they solved those clues but maybe they intentionally just stuck in the answers to them in a statement about a area they were intending to search last year. This is why Forrest was not sure because they never said these are my solves and Forrest might be thinking that these “some” have already searched that area and came up empty. But ” what if ” they never made it out there yet?

            Of course this all my opinion, and good luck to all. Bur

          • EC,

            Every thing I say is for conversational purpose. I’m not a person who attempts to fluffernutter every word I say, or put smiley faces at the end of my sentences. While I try to provoke discussion by taking different avenues, for the most part it does bring out others to join in. For the ones who only believe in one way of looking at the poem… I have no problems with that or them. I simply trying to see all sides and not get stuck on a single process… and defend it as factual. I also don’t put IMO after all my comments or post.. I would think it would be a reasonable assumption that, I use terms like; I think this; or I believe that, maybe, could be, possibility, etc. The addition of imo is redundant.
            I’m simply a guy who eats his peanut butter straight from the jar… I only use marshmallow for s’mores.

            If anything I say seems to imply otherwise… then I have been mistaken.

          • Seeker,

            You said:

            I’m not a person who attempts to fluffernutter every word I say, or put smiley faces at the end of my sentences.

            You making fun of Forrest?

            “It is fun to arrange words in such a way that you have to smile at the end of a sentence.” f

            Think I’m getting hungry with all this talk, i need a sandwich.

            Just ribbin ya brother.

          • Litterateone,

            Clever… Just so y’all know… I’m not making fun of fenn, and I’m not fenn [ like I would ever be accused of that… but just playing it on the safe side ]..
            Although, I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once, So ………….. [ insert smiley face here! ]

          • Hey Bur,

            In one of the interviews [ found in the media section ] fenn was ask about the book. He answered “you don’t need to read my book”, you have to decipher the clues in the poem… then adds… the book will help. [ you’ll need to hear it for exact wording, but that’s very close ]
            Anyways. Your quote and this one seem to contradict each other. But when I think about it, I wondered if ‘reading’ the book is not the correct way to see the hints / clues / information in the book. That is why a couple weeks ago I suggested the poem is more like schematics, designed to show how to retrieve important information from the book… another words… Nothing in the book is in any order, hints in the book not intentional placed… because the poem is a must to be use, all the information is in the poem to help locate the correct hints that will help you discover the correct clues back in the poem.

            Is this why Little Indy can’t get pass the first two clues… she didn’t have the book for reference? Let me repeat… the poem may guide you to see the hints in the book, because the poem is in order, and that [ hints ]may help you find the correct clues and understand the poem.

            Is this what was meant to “sprinkled” in the pages…

            So when I read or hear what seems to be contradiction from fenn… I attempt to rationalize how it could work. And I could be wrong, but I don’t think fenn will give us anything that will leads us to the chest or even hint about a single clues… But I do see how he can say things that makes one think of the alternatives… the possibilities…. The what IFs.

          • @Seeker – I disagree with the assertion that nothing in the book is in any order. It’s in seven ages of man order, As You Like It, which Fenn points out in his book. I believe that each story contains important information regarding the various locations (not in sequential order) where he will frequently point it out to the reader using words like “big deal” or “important” or using a homonym of the word “clue”, like describing a “cluse” or a “clou” with the term “nail”, or a “clew” with a ball of string.

            I urge readers to keep an open mind instead of using sweeping and discounting statements potentially leading to missed opportunities.

          • EC,

            Maybe you missed the comments about clues/hints in the book… one of which fenn said the clue/hints are not in order. and other was Sprinkled, another was unintentional etc. If you read my post, I stated;
            “I wondered if ‘reading’ the book is not the correct way to see the hints / clues / information in the book.”

            My comment to Bur was about the hints/ clues/ information… and why the two comments from fenn seem to contradict each other. Try reading the full context of the post… it may help clarify the single line you are referring to.

          • Seeker,

            I read your comment back to me and I see you are getting some of what I was implying. The book was/ is helpful in first giving me a “main thread” to follow which in turn I have followed in most of my searches, but the “sprinkled hints” only really finally appeared after what I believe are the correct solves “now” to the poems clues. Also after solving a couple of these clues did I notice hints from Forrest in helping in confirming the “large area” in which the chest is hidden. Now after a lot of hard work through out the years I have finally completed my answers and I can see even more of his hints that describe the area in close proximity to the chest. I was going to make a trip out west last summer but never got time needed so I have just been waiting until some time this year which will happen in a few weeks. I have seen some posts from a couple of searchers “that seem to be interested” in the large area of my solution but I know that there are two clues if not understood correctly then they too will go past the chest as others in the past have done IMO. Well guess I’ve said enough, it’s time to just sit back and wait until I can get my BOTG again to see if just maybe I’m in that same boat with Jerermy P. as one who might have solved three or four clues that Forrest was not sure about, will have to see.
            So everyone enjoy your searches and good luck to all. Bur

      • That little girl in India. I don’t take the whole comment as a hint because it was a very aloof answer.

        Question: Your treasure hunt has inspired people worldwide to discover history, culture and nature, but many people, (even in the US) might be deterred because they don’t live near the Rockies or can’t afford to travel. Should they be deterred? Can a little girl in India, who speaks good English, but only has your poem and a map of the US Rocky Mountains, work out where the treasure is? And would she be confident as she solves each clue, or only confident when she has solved them all?
        Answer: I wish I had another treasure to hide in the Appalachians. The little girl in India cannot get closer than the first two clues. There are many disabled people who are deeply into maps and geography, and they are having a lot of fun.

        CLOSER as in physically being there, or CLOSER as in solving the nine clues she will not understand pass the second clue?

        If you take it as ‘boots on the ground’ then how can she be close to your first 2 clues? Most people agree that WWWH is one of the first 2 clues so how is she close to it now? Well, if your wwwh is Mt. Everest then you have a chance cause she is pretty much down the canyon from there.

        Someone asked him if it was possible to locate the chest without leaving the computer and using google earth, his answer: No! ‘there is no picture of the chest in google earth’ and then he said ‘google earth doesn’t go down enough’. REALLY? I mean I know it was a flawed question but that is not what the questioner meant. He doesn’t want to give to much away and he wants people to get out there, I get it. But after 5 years and thousands of boots on the ground is time to put more boots on the poem, specially the first one or two clues and really nail those. imo.

        • “I can keep my secret where”. What is his secret? Not the chest since millions know he hid a treasure chest. Maybe we should figure that out first.
          Then “riches new and old”. If we assume the chest is new what is old?
          Maybe this will answer why we won’t know if clue 1 is correct until we find the chest. Just IMO.

          • eaglesabound,

            There are three possessives in the poem understanding their relationship and difference is key.

          • I’m not sure what that has to do with my statement. Perhaps you can explain with more speificaity.

          • eaglesabound,

            You asked what his secret was, it was indirect correlation to that question.

          • eagles abound, if you put emphasis on “keep” and “where”, it reads to me that he can keep the place secret because he was alone

        • Little girl in India
          So she can’t get past the first 2 clues. Is she stuck at solving clue 2 as in cant get past clue 2 or she could be past clue to but stack at 3?

          Maybe she can’t get past the first one.

          • I think everyone is yoo hung up over the little girl in India. I also recall that at one point, FF told a disabled women in a wheel chair that if she could decifer the clues and tell him where the chest was, that he would retrieve it for her. So I think that it is possible that the clues can be figured out without going to the TC location. He said you cant see the blaze on google earth, but that does not mean you cant know what the blaze is and what to look for. I just think that overanalyzing the little girl in India is pointless. IMO

          • Not sure about that, Puzzled. I wouldn’t have landed on Shrine of the Sun had I not heard the bells while I was out hiking around looking for signs of clues. Although one can find the shrine has bells by researching, it’s a completely different experience for a separate bodily sense to detect something and hit one squarely in the head with an answer. I believe he wants us out in the fresh air looking for various reasons.

          • Shrine of the Sun does sound interesting EC Waters. I might have to check that out

          • “… only has your poem and a map of the US Rocky Mountains, work out where the treasure is? And would she be confident as she solves each clue, or only confident when she has solved them all?”

            “I wish I had another treasure to hide in the Appalachians. The little girl in India cannot get closer than the first two clues. There are many disabled people who are deeply into maps and geography, and they are having a lot of fun.”

            What I find interesting in the question is the use of “US” RM’s… seems similar to US history. We also know fenn stated… Most of the places the clues refer to did exist when he was a kid… One can assume that not all the places were around then, and/or, not all clues are places. So is it likely there is a reason to answering NO to US history or US RM’s map?

          • Only s map of the US RMs. Might mean other parts of the US or Canada need to be on the map. What gets my attention is the term “work out”.

          • Seeker,
            One clue that I speculate that was not around when he was a kid is how it’s hidden. One example, if it is buried, the hole that it got buried in mostly likely didn’t exist when he was a kid(this doesn’t mean it’s buried but just one example). Hidden means out of sight, so however he concealed most likely didn’t exist when he was a kid. One of the thoughts constantly on my mind is how is it hidden? Does stanza 5 have anything to do with it?

            “The answers I already know, I’ve done it tired, and know I’m weak.”

          • I like to think f created his own camouflage. Perhaps out of bronze and using some new technique he created that adds to the cammo. For example an artificial tree stump or rock.

          • That’s funny uken,
            I was thinking a similar thought a few months back. Thought maybe a wax rock.
            Bronze or wax should hold up well in the elements for many, many years.
            The blaze maybe the camo.

          • @uken2it – his camouflage is in the words he chose.

            I seem to keep running into the word “bell” again and again for all sorts of different things, e.g. one of the Catalan words for “beautiful tawny-colored calf”, the chimes at the shrine (did you know flies in Catalan is mosque? weird…), the beach for La Buse (Bel Ombre), and Dr. William Bell, a person relevant to Colorado Springs history.

            Fenn’s bells look like “elephant bells”, to the point it looks like he tried to make one that looks like an elephant’s foot… which reminds me of the Cheyenne zoo below the shrine. Has the “elephant bells” comparison been mentioned here before?

            To Ken’s sorrowful Texas rednecks: lege totum si vis scire totum. I took this from “knowlege” and Totem Cafe.

          • Seeker, are you saying that could be one reason why tgfi can only solve 2 clues, because the map in question only shows the US Rockies?

          • OZ10,

            Kinda… What do both mountain ranges have in common? One, is the both are in North America… USA and Canada. While we all know the map from the book show only the RM’s in the US, that map is only for the location of the chest itself… not any facts all the clues or clue reference are in the same area. We truly don’t know if there is a connection to any clue/answer north of the border line.

            Another connection is the divide… The eastern divide… Was that a hint? Maybe the hint here [ if any ] was a correlation to each range that could possibly work with the/a clue[s] in the poem. We have been told a comprehensive knowledge of geography ‘might’ help. maybe a ‘good’ map shows the ‘big[ger] picture.”

            Or maybe it was… she young, and couldn’t buy a plane ticket.

          • @The Count – I’m stuck on the “answers” too. In several places throughout the book, “fence post”, “postman”, “postponement” and other posts seem to be clubbing me in the face. “Answers” (riposte, aka counter, aka sally) seems to be tied to a fence post somewhere in Strawberry Fields.

          • Uken2it,

            I have been pondering the ‘work out’ that you pointed out… would you explain your thoughts?

          • “work out”
            Seeker, I don’t have a certain answer how this can be interpreted another way. However it just sounds like it is not a good fit. At first I thought of the word exercise, where the treasure is and that the location of the chest is too small to do anything in there, or good cold. but then f’s answer kind causes this to not make sense.
            others that are not fitting:
            disable people cannot work out to the extent others can
            pencil out
            Exhaust a resource, such as a mine, as in This mine has been completely worked out. [Mid-1500s]

          • Seeker, since I had zilch to offer on “work out” I will share something else.

            Jeremy P, encouraged me to dust of a few books from my bookshelf. I pulled Voltaire, Poe and Robert Browning.

            Voltaire peaked my interest since I had read Wikipedia earlier which yielded some interesting facts:

            • François-Marie Arouet changed his name to Voltaire
            • The author adopted the name “Voltaire” in 1718, following his incarceration at the Bastille. (alone in there). His name is an “anagram” of anagram of AROVET LI
            • the Latinized spelling of his surname, Arouet
            • the initial letters of le jeune (“the young”)
            • known as le petit volontaire (“determined little thing”)
            • The name also reverses the syllables of Airvault, his family’s home town. Air Vault = Hangar in the sky? Going own the runway of life about to lift off, I sure hope there are hangars in the sky.)
            • anagrammatic derivation of the name, a writer such as Voltaire would have intended it to also convey its connotations of speed and daring. (brave)
            • associations with words such as voltige (acrobatics on a trapeze or horse), volte-face (a spinning about to face one’s enemies), and volatile (originally, any winged creature).Bold and Brave ”
            • Arouet” was not a noble name fit for his growing reputation, especially given that name’s resonance with à rouer (“to be beaten up”) and roué (a débauché).(Beaten up, tired and weak)

            Micromegas is one of Voltaires works
            Small Omegas
            Lower case greek omega is ω
            Ωμέγα = ωμέγα

            Other titles in this volume:
            The Sage and the Atheist
            On Taxes Paid to a Foreign Power
            The Philosophy of History
            The Ignorant Philosopher
            The Enigmas

          • “The ‘little girl’ in India cannot get closer than the first two clues.”

            “It might just as well have been a ‘boy’ from Waxahatchee, where my father was born, or an ‘Arab kid’ from Marrakech…..”

            I am curious as to why, in his follow-up remark, he seems to reinforce that it is a “child” who cannot get closer than the first two clues?? – – -why not just say it might as well have been “someone” from wherever??

            (LOL!! Seeker, I don’t know where this post will wind up…..I had to climb waaay up to find a reply button!!!)

          • Very interesting observation Loco.
            Maybe the third clue requires you to put a boat in?
            Scratch that.
            What is it about the 3rd clue that requires you to be an adult to figure it out?
            Can’t be size cause there are short adults.
            Must be an age requirement?

          • Loco, I have tried to understand the little girl, child aspect but I get stuck because “little girl” does not mean child, it could but might mean in stature for instance. So leave “little girl” behind as a distraction. (shooo, little girl you bother me)

          • Loco,

            Exactly… was that a deliberate attempt for the focus on children or just simply using ‘boy’ and ‘kid’ to keep it in framed with the question, and it doesn’t matter who the person is, it matter the tools they use.

            It slightly contradicts ~ kids may have an advantage. So what would the reason be if the poem and a ‘US” RM map couldn’t get one any farther?
            It also seems interesting that there are a few other Q&A related to ‘if those are the only two clues you have”…
            You know the quotes as well as I… wwh and n of SF… what colors the bear… if you don’t have all the ingredient you can’t bake the cake…

            Or is the reason for ‘Child’… because of the location requires adult supervision? no shoe -no shirt – no parent -no service.

          • Seriously… regarding “Marrakech”, how is it that you are you not seeing this is another hint to Ceuta (Seven, Pillars of Hercules) and Colorado being the color red? Fenn must absolutely be tired and weak for playing the fool Touchstone. But I will say he is very good at it.

          • Marrakech is interesting due to its nickname “”Red City” or “Ochre City”

            A larger City than Marrakech is Casablanca. White House which does not seem to be related imo but others may find a fit for home of white.

            Also a connection could be made to page 14 of the ttotc “Caliph” and Caliphate leaders of the Muslim peoples.

          • Seeker asked—“So what would the reason be if the poem and a ‘US” RM map couldn’t get one any farther?”

            Nowhere, in either statement, does he does he state or allude to, that if you have the resources stated in Jenny’s question, one cannot get any further than solving the first two clues.

            Jenny did not ask if the LGFI could “solve” the clues. He does not say anything about the child being unable to “solve” any of the remaining clues, just that they can’t get “closer” than the first two……as always, he left himself wiggle room.

            Again he has never stated that the Poem’s clues cannot be solved beforehand, using the right perspective and resources. Nowhere in his LGFI comments is he saying such!!

            Taking the two statements together, he refers to a “little girl”, “boy” and “kid”.

            Now, if you want to interpret those as anything but a “child”, that is certainly your prerogative…….as is just considering the LGFI statement and excluding the other statement, even though they both clearly address the same subject.

            So, that still begs the question, what does it mean that a child can’t get “closer” than the first two clues??

          • uken2it, ochre is more brown than red. So can it be ‘Brown City’ or city of brown, home of Brown.

            Hey, when you have nothing even a cigarette butt on the side of the road can be a good ‘blaze’.

          • Fenn’s Waxahachie reference appears to be the importance of Bessie’s tail tied to a fence post, which could be related to the final location or something that I missed along the way.

            Seriously, guys. Analyze everything he says for hints, and not just a literal analysis. There is no face value here other than George Washington’s Profile in Seven Falls (in my opinion).

        • Lots of good discussion here. It really does make one wonder if TLGFI question is Fenns way of reveling that some clues need BOTG to solve? Would that be bold of him? He does say his poem was ment to inspire people to go into nature and the more I think about the blogs they seem to have the opposite effect. Fenn doesn’t answer every question and I was a bit surprised he took on TLGFI question. Could these be signs that he wants the chest found soon? And does it really make the chase easyer with all of these after poem comments and questions?

          • @The Count – He’s playing Touchstone in As You Like It, his next to last role. He’s helping the audience to connect. Of course he wants it found, regardless of if he claims to be “Ambalavao”.

        • @Oz10 – consider also that when Fenn comments on the disabled, he may be genuinely willing to help them if they can solve it, but he might also be hinting at Cripple Creek as it is flowing through Seven Falls property.

          • To support this theory, a paddle is a licking. Fenn’s father was a principle who spanked kids, and Fenn talks about this in TTOTC. “Lick” in Spanish is “lamer”, therefore “Cripple Creek”.

          • @EC- the waters that flow out of Cripple Creek don’t flow onto 7falls property. It flows down a road called shelf road to Canon city then meets up with the Arkansas River. I know this area like the back of my hand.

          • @Count – awesome. The Fins inside Seven Falls are like the back of a hand, the thumb being Philadelphia. If you’re in Colorado Springs, would you consider meeting for coffee and comparing notes? I’m in town this week and there aren’t many people in the world with whom to discuss this stuff.

            Also, thanks for the info on Cripple Creek. Would you consider contacting The Broadmoor and letting them know their map is incorrect?

        • Good analysis. Why not a child? age restrictions or an action that a child can’t or ain’t supposed to do, like drive. Clues 1 and 2 describes your starting point using the poem and map of course and then clue #3 you drive somewhere. (car, train, boat)

          • It is IMHO that no child will find this. Sorry to the kiddos on here. I am just a person who sits comfortably in this little circle but it is still my firm belief that a child will not find it. Sorry if that upsets anyone and disrupts your solution. JMO.

          • I just remembered another ff post regarding the little girl from India directed to Dal. I can’t find the actual but it was something like “We are getting a lot of mileage from tlgfi, doncha think?” mileage…

  134. IMHO the first stanza says alone=solitude(fishing spot in early spring), in there=Water (can’t be a structure), my treasures (plural) bold=1. Indulgence 2.a bold creek(as described in the journals of Lewis and Clark) also probably Forrest’s favorite fishing spot (that would make it his treasure bold). I can Keep my secret where= under a rock in the cooling waters of a rivulet like his dr. Pepper can in thick wooded brush where no one will stumble on it. And hint of riches new and old=not sure but to me this means there may be artifacts already there.

  135. The comments on this blog are getting better and better and scarier and scarier for me. People are finally listening to Forrest, and realizing that clue number one is absolutely crucial. I will say this about my ideas, clue number one gets you to the area. Clue two must be solved before you can solve clue number three. Clue number 4 through 9 can be solved before you leave but do you no good without clue number three. IMO of course

    • “Over the River and Through the Wood” You cannot get in the wood without going over the river. imo

  136. Hi All;

    ff has posted his Weekly Post on Jenny’s MW site.

    Any comments?

    Good luck to all searchers and STAY SAFE


  137. Here is my “catch of the day”:

    “Just take the chest and go in peace,”

    Wasn’t Forrest raised a Baptist, someone correct me if I’m wrong and maybe raised isn’t the correct word. If he was then the phrase “go in peace” may be of some interest to research:

    The following is a cut and paste:

    The words “Go in peace” are not just nice words to nod our heads to because we agree with them in theory. To literally “go in peace” is an incredible challenge. As we reflect on what these words mean, we begin to realize just how transforming the Mass is supposed to be. We begin to see that, because of our baptism as Christians, we are called to be different. We are called to be holy—in the words of Peter’s epistle, a people “set apart.” We begin to realize that to “go in peace” means much more than to leave with a good feeling. It means that we leave church with the intention of making peace happen in our personal lives and in what happens around us.


    What I partially see as key from the above paragraph is: “It means that we leave church with the intention of making peace happen in our personal lives and in what happens around us”. As Forrest’s has said his “church” is in the mountains and river bottoms, so as we take the trove and go in peace we are in fact departing his church with the intention of making peace happen in our personal lives and in what happens around us.

    Remember this statement:

    “The key word is contentment. If you can find it, everything else has already fallen in place.”

    Synonym of contentment is peace.

    There isn’t in my opinion much of a clue or hint as to the location of the trove in this rant, but it may just lend some understanding to this line in the poem.


    • Nice LitterateOne. A few other thoughts. Warm waters may halt when tears stop. Tears stop when pain, anguish, hate, grief, etc., stop – basically stop when one is at peace or content. Warm waters could also allude to blood. When blood stops flowing, we die. An important question I believe is why must we wait until someone dies to wish that they “rest in peace.” How about using that as the way we rest if life…in peace.

      • twingem…important thoughts and for me…this goes hand in hand with the Cowboy Code of Ethics that 23 kachinas shared on the poetry page.

        BTW…every time I see your name (twingem)…my thoughts go to the sparkling twin stars of the constellation Gemini.

        • Hi Ellen. I will check out the post for sure.

          You are very wise Ellen. I have twins born June 15 99 which makes them Gemini. So I guess that means there are four of them or they are twins squared?! And yes, they are my twin gems and treasures that sparkle at me everyday. Cosmos and Chaos.

          May peace be upon you everyday.

    • @LitterateOne – if I may be bowled enough to suggest an alternate meaning to “just take the chest and go in peace”, I am currently bending the meanings to my need to fit my path.

      Perhaps chest = arc (Spanish, las arca), and MIGHT mean, take the arc path south without telling anyone. You’re not supposed to go that way in the Seven Falls theory, according to posted signs.

    • I think “Take the chest and go in peace” means take the trunk (a spur line) and go west (towards the pacific).

  138. Guys, I’ve kept away for a while as I’m still waiting for a suitable weather window and didn’t want to intrude on the interesting discussions underway here. However, I decided to double-check a small part of my “route” using a layer in the poem that I’d felt wasn’t really necessary to the final solution. What I discovered was that there is a very good reason why FF uses the word “precisely” when describing how we should follow the clues. Although, IMO, you can reveal the final spot with a slightly more generalized approach, being absolutely precise in your reading will give you final, detailed confirmation (or otherwise) of your solution. I can confidently state that – again, IN MY OPINION, and yet to be confirmed – the poem should not be read at face value alone, and that it really is ALL in there – no need to start guessing when you arrive at your start point!

    Good luck to all.

    • @vox – I do agree from my experience in the Seven Falls theory that following precisely at the start isn’t difficult, other than strenuous. But there is a point where continuing to walk is too much, and then impossible because one can only drive, no foot traffic.

      Getting from Shrine of the Sun to Strawberry Fields is the part where I’m experimenting on why, and using numbers from My War For Me that I believe pointed me here from following Clarke poetry, but also Fenn’s allusions to “talking in circles” or TS Eliot. Maybe I missed something crucial at the shrine that confirms the final spot…

      Any insight would be useful on the meaning of “layers”.

      • The way I see it, E.C., is that a phrase (or sentence) may provide one clue, but that individual words or groups of words within the phrase add depth, clarity and precision. I don’t think this is a new insight, but when applied “correctly” such layers give amazing results!

        • @vox – Cool. Thank you. I know very little about poetry so my palette is immature. I can only speak in terms of teaching a computer linguistic analysis, which is what landed me on this puzzle 3 years ago. For both me and the software, this has been an improbable experience.

          • You’re welcome, E.C. One small hint: don’t get too hung up on word definitions (as in dictionary definitions) – the poem is often less formal than that, IMO!

          • “It’s nothing to get hung about” is actually a correlation in my current theory.

    • Sounds like you’ve got it all figured out…I really hope you or someone can find it, somewhere soon (other than in Montana), to discount my solve before I make that long drive up again. Good luck! When do you plan on going?

  139. Jeremy…whereabouts do you reside? How long is your trip to MT?

    Voxpops…STATELESS do you mean your not talking as much?? Surely a state doesn’t narrow it down too much does it?

  140. After reading the poem over & over again & reading the books again, I may be onto something in the first stanza if acronyms & homophones are acceptable. Of course it lands me in the same area that I think WWWH is. Please excuse me if this has already been mentioned here.
    “As I have gone alone in there”
    We need to know where the first clue is in the poem.
    Seeing I have thought that was begin it WWWH.

    Now I am thinking: “As I” is a clue to where you have to go first.
    A = Aqua or Agua
    S = Spring
    I = Eye
    Forrest’s bathing spot? Ojo Caliente? Eye Warm or Warm Eye?
    His poem is messing with me!

    • What is your basis for assuming that “A” = aqua or agua? What is your basis for assuming that “S” = Spring?

      Ojo Caliente has been named almost as many times as Yellowstone. Are we trying to convert our assumptions into clues?

      The single biggest observation I have about posters’ comments, and it applies to everyone including myself, is … we see what we wanna see!

      Kindly explain how you get from “A” to agua, and get from “S” to spring, based on logic, not assumptions.


      • Acronyms Ken,
        Yes, we see what we wanna see.
        I can only see this area for some reason.

        Acronym = an abbreviation formed from the initial letters of other words and pronounced as a word (e.g., ASCII, NASA ).

        Example: KEN


        Or: NASA
        National Aeronautics and Space Administration

        You have to convert somewhere don’t you?

        • How about AAIS for the capital letter in stanza 1 Association on American Indian Affairs. I’ll let ya do the rest if ya like. But what I think Ken is saying, what connection other than a guess can you come up with.

      • Imagination & logic should be harmonious.
        There’s a little of both in what I have done.
        Sure, fill me in: Association on American Indian Affairs
        I didn’t quite get it last time it was offered.
        Doesn’t mean I won’t get it his time either.
        I will be back after rest for the night.

        • acronyms?

          Why acronyms but not antonyms? How about homonyms or anagrams?

          Point being … what basis is there for using any of these word games to form clues? Why would the use of “anagrams” be “messing with my poem” but “acronyms” wouldn’t be “messing with my poem”?

          When FF says “don’t mess with my poem” and that the “clues are straightforward”, I take that to mean that the searcher needs to take the poem’s words at face value and apply what he has actually written to places in the Rocky Mountains. Imagination is simply an inspired translation of poem words to place names or some specific geographic personality.

          At least that’s how I see it.


          • @Ken – I’ll continue to repeat this. Have a look at Scrapbook 107 and decide if homonyms, spoonerisms, and malaprops are still inappropriate.

        • My point is, if your going to think about Acronym, using ‘words’ within the poem can lead to thousands of possibilities. The definition of what acronyms is “the initial letters” of words, not all the letters of a word. So where in the poem are just letters to be seen. While some poems do use capital letters in each line… this is a challenge of deciphering… are those capital letter in each line [ even though the previous line was not a complete sentences ] simply poetic writings?

          Just a thought….

          • Looks like the blog is getting back to normal. The menu on the right is back to the top. Things were getting weird around here.

            Anyway, Seeker & Ken,

            When I first took the chase to a serious level. One the first things I found was the poem. I read it quite a few times & made an educated guess that WWWH was going to be near hot springs. Hot water pouring into cold water, turning it warm, then flowing down river getting cold again. YNP came to mind first.
            Keep in mind, no books, no statements, no SB’s, nada.
            That being said, you can search the hundreds of places NOSF & sooner or later you will have to search YNP which was & is still my choice to begin only now. I searched Dal’s site & YouTube & various other sites while waiting for TFTW. When I read TFTW, I realized I maybe right about WWWH being near his bathing spot.
            When TTOC arrived a couple of months later, it seemed to reinforce my theory.
            Those tourists that visit Fountain Flats, have no idea of the importance relating to the chase.
            Just an educated guess, I guess.

          • Jake…and others who noticed the change in the blog a few days ago-

            WordPress instituted one of their “periodic updates” which changed the look of many blogs..this blog being one of them. It moved the menu list to the bottom of the blog from the right hand side..where it usually lives.This appears to be an unintended consequence and nothing they expected to happen. Many folks complained. Many folks experienced issues much worse than ours.

            Goofy dived in and began looking at the new “code”. It was a slow analytical process that is well above my pay grade.

            Then a couple evenings ago the server that our blog lives on went haywire and folks could not reach the blog. Goofy stopped looking at the code issue and moved over to the server issue. Possibly it was being attacked. We’ll never know because as Goofy was looking at the problem and the possible cause, I (not knowing Goofy was looking at it) decided to reboot the server (left hand not knowing what the right hand was doing) eliminating all possible avenues of investigation into the root cause of the failure.

            The server came back up fine but we’ll never know why it went haywire to begin with.

            This morning Goofy patched the WordPress code so that our blog looks “normal” again.
            So, as Jake mentioned, things are back to normal, thanks to Goofy’s knowledge, skill and patience.

            Just a footnote..when WordPress updates again to repair the problems instigated by their previous update, things will probably go back yo haywire until Goofy can undo his patch.

            We have no idea when that might happen. WordPress does not “warn” users that their updates are coming down the line.

            So…we are one of the few blogs with someone smart enough to patch the WordPress update…THANKS GOOF!!

          • Thanks Dal,
            I knew things were getting weird on Wednesday or Thursday when I wasn’t receiving comment subs by email after seeing there were new comments posted on the pages though.
            WP updates can have different consequences for all the templates.
            Even when adding other apps (for lack of better word) to your template or server can make things go screwy.
            Not everything is Goof proof though, or is it?
            Proof is in the Goof.

          • Thank you for the information, Dal. I thought it was something to do with my computer. You have a great crew member having Goofy onboard. 🙂

          • Goofy, when you’re done with the blog… I was wondering if you can debug a poem for me?

          • @Oz10 – I suspect we’ll all learn soon enough about such circles. The sentiment analysis of new posts has taken a very specific turn in this community, and so time is now short. Many people have also picked up on the patterns.

    • To add info, ISA is the name of a lake on the CD than one side I thinks starts the firehole river..

  141. Jake, this is a first – you considering the first stanza as being something other than an introduction.

    Wonders never cease.

    Just kidding – It does go along with your other “solves” though, doesn’t it?


    • Yes JD,
      We all have the ability to change in life. Hopefully in a more positive manner that affects everyone including yourself.
      If anyone doesn’t think they change in life, just look in the mirror. Sometimes it just takes time & an open mind.

      Yes it does fit with my solve, but it seems our minds can make new ones up in a day or 2 without actually putting BOTG that fit our solve or frame of thinking. Funny how the mind works….

    • LOL JD,
      My mirror broke a month or 2 back & is even scarier when I look since.
      The only reason I look there is to shave. Maybe I should let it grow.

      Good luck JD & hope you got an “A” with your homework.
      Not this weekend but next?

  142. This gentleman, Forrest Fenn…has outlived most of the closet and dearest people in his life. I think it could be a combination of old & new memories that he “takes alone in..there.” Each Rocky Mountain State and other places where his memories were born and continue to live and play… are likely a major part of what “it” has been that defines him.

    I don’t know what makes the Flyer thrive other than his family, a love of History and perhaps the desire to make a positive difference in the lives of others.

    One fine day, what’s been written in his own words; will reveal the fascination and wonder what has become the legacy that is Forrest Fenn; a long with gifts of unique desire & treasures that he knew have ‘always’ lived within us all.

    The thrill of the chase ~

  143. All I remember is that I was supposed not to forget something and I know there is a clue there but I don’t have a clue where.

    A theme, there is got to be a theme but it escapes me. It is there in the poem, hiding in plain sight. Since this is a poem within a poem, or more accurate a map of sorts within a poem where the face value doesn’t match the trail. Perhaps the hidden message will. It seems like an introduction, simple and straightforward. He Fenn, went in there alone with his treasures to a place he will keep secret but will hint via riches or important things of the past and present, now and then. What or who else can say the same words for this to take another meaning? SB 107 is one of my favorites because he illustrates the ‘double meaning’ or hidden message if you will, very clearly. It seems like he is upset about those who are around him not paying attention to some details. The phone line tangled up, the list written the wrong way, the unsent envelope and the disorganized silverware. But right away a smart searcher knows that he is talking about us handling the poem. One message, two themes or two different meanings and one little hint (write way).

    Is the poem so tangled up that the message is scrambled? Do we need to write it the write way by keeping our priorities straight? It does make sense to have the ‘get gas’ on top of the list before the reminder about the license renewal. That simple failure is why ‘apparently ‘ he ended up running out of gas in the middle of the road and couldn’t make it to the MVD and maybe the same reason we are not making it all the way to the last clue and the treasure. The end goal was not accomplished. The silverware was organized so everything is facing the same way. Are the clues going in different directions and we have to organized them?

    I know he has said “do not mess with the poem” but I feel like I should go and get some scissors now. Tell me why I am wrong in thinking that some words or full sentences can’t be re-arranged, especially if they don’t alter the meaning.

    • OZ, the Great and Powerful…

      Forrest has said on numerous occasions, Don’t mess with the poem. The clues are in order which will lead someone right to the chest.

      It has been great to see another level of excitement breathed into the blogs with the approach of spring. IMHO, I think that we bloggers (and the silent lurkers) are getting closer, especially with the exploration of homonyms. [I’ll pour a little gas on the fire in a little bit…]

      Although I have a solve that I feel ‘confident’ about, I know it’s not the “go with confidence” Forrest has spoken about. IMO again, I think the correct thought process is that there are nine clues, in order, with each stanza representing a clue, but not necessarily a one-word clue. My recent re-analysis leads me to believe the first stanza gives the “big picture” to search in. The second begins your journey within that area, with the proceedings clues/stanzas giving further directions, eventually leading you to Indulgence.

      I’ll give everyone who’s new to the chase this hint – substitute one word for each sentence, or partial sentence separated by a comma. For example:

      Not far, but too far to walk = 2 words = 1 Clue

      That’s my contribution to humanity.

      God Bless, Forrest and I hope we meet someday.

      ~ Wisconsin Mike

      • WI Mike,

        Is your solve a step by step location? If it is, test something for me. Switch the ‘Put in below the home of Brown.’ to the top of stanza 2 and see if it changes anything in your solve?

      • Hey Mike — I’ve been doing that for a long time with some neat results but what makes you believe that commas indicate clue differentiation? Why not every clue line? Why not complete sentences?

        Further… in the case of NFBTFTW, what makes you believe that the 2 net clue words are not the actual clues? There are single words that can precisely describe that line as well.


        • Chris,

          In my solve the sentences with commas are directional, not descriptors.

          ’nuff said.

          ~Wisconsin Mike

      • Not far, but too far to walk, is directions and clue. Not 4, but 2, 4, 2 is more the clue. Just gotta know where to use!

        • Yeah, but John…. We could twist so many words in the poem into words that sound somewhat similar. Far and Four seems a bit silly.. but who knows.

          Beggin’-wear worm walters halt and tape it on the can of yams down. 🙂

          I did earlier see Where as Wear. “Secret Wear” = pajamas? Fenn says he “sleeps in the nude”… which is creepy. He also said he’s a “homosapien”. It was one of the first things that made me consider “alone in there” = “in the closet”! The poem definitely could have homoerotic connotation if you went there with it. Sorry to project those images — just sayin!


  144. To E.C. Waters …

    I can’t respond to your above comment where it’s located, because there is no “Reply” option below your comment … which seems to be a recurring anomaly, among many other anomalies, with this blog; I guess we’ll all muddle through somehow. 🙂 So I’ll respond here.

    You cited Scrapbook 107, the “People Just Don’t Understand” essay, wherein he uses “write” for “right”? Sorry, I don’t see anything in his essay that tells me that he expects searchers to use acronyms, homonyms, anagrams, antonyms, “malaprops”, or “spoonerism” to find clues in his poem.

    Some redneck guy from Texas wouldn’t have the slightest idea what a “malaprop” is anyway. His best guess would be that “malaprop” is an invasive species of catfish. I’m not even gonna get into “spoonerism”; too kinky for me.

    You’ll have to do better than Scrapbook 107 to convince me that we have to twist the poem’s words into gnarly, convoluted, onomatopoeic knots to extract useful clues.

    What’s wrong with a straightforward interpretation of the poem’s wording?


    • Ken,

      I agree that Forrest would be unlikely to make the solution to the poem extremely convoluted. IMHO its not. He has said to read the book, then the poem; rinse, repeat. If you’ve read TTOTC, there are several places where Forrest asks the reader, “Do you get what I mean?” I think he paints a picture with words, and not all of them the first word the average reader would utilize.

      IMO the poem has layers of meaning – the surface being apparent only after the chest is found, and the one we’re all working to decipher.

      BTW, I think Forrest would say a malaprop is a bad propeller!

      ~ Wisconsin Mike

      • Your interpretation sounds reasonable to me. My impression of FF is that he regrets to some extent not having a college education. And I gather from some of the things he has written and said verbally, that he resents intellectuals, especially those in the field of archaeology. To which I would agree with FF.

        So perhaps his poem, either consciously or subconsciously, reflects his attempt at revenge on some of his archaeology peers, by making the poem so opaque, with as you said “layers of meaning”, that even those learned, scholarly elites are stumped by FF’s unexpected intellectual skills. (After all, only Ph.D.s are entitled to be smart (hehehehe).


      • @Ken – might your pointing to Fenn’s “straight forward” response be a hint to “strait forward”, or “Pillars of Hercules” and “Ceuta”?

        For support to this theory, see John Charles and his jar of green olives (Juan Carlos I, King of Spain owning Gibraltar and Ceuta), the etymology of the word Ceuta, Thumb over Philadelphia and the Dactyls where Hercules is the thumb, Philadelphia is George Washington’s Profile at the thumb of The Fins, Cody being one of the 12 Labors of Hercules, the scrapbook showing 1/Lt. Aide de Camp and the 12 planes in 9 bases, the concept of the first stanza pointing to “secret where” as “Ceuta to” (secret = confidence = certitude = Ceuta to), etc. etc. ad nauseum.

        • Your comment here at least has a “Reply” option; oh joy, rapture!

          Dearest E.C. Waters … The Strait of Gibraltar is not in the Rocky Mountains. (hehehehe). So I find that the “Pillars of Hercules” is irrelevant to the chase. And Ceuta is presumably in Morocco, which is in North Africa.

          Talk about a circuitous, serpentine route to the treasure chest!

          I think you and I are operating on very different wavelengths. Which is okay. But if your wavelength is the same as FF’s, then pity the poor Texas redneck. To some redneck, pillars of Hercules might just as well be the brand name of that thing you lay your head on when you get into bed each night. And Ceuta sounds like a side-dish at some Tex-Mex restaurant.

          Ken 🙂

  145. Jeremy, thanks for the link. Funnily enough, I spent a lot of time researching border locations – particularly corners where two or more states meet (there are a couple of those that looked very promising). There certainly are some interesting stories behind some of the surveys and markers.

  146. Are we all just assuming? Concerning the little girl in India, it sounds as though a lot of us are thinking she’s the only one on the planet who has a good map. Forest never said that. Maybe a 34-yr old in New Jersey also has a good map. And maybe a 24-yr old mother who lives in Denver also has a good map.
    And concerning his comment about a searcher being within 200 ft. When did he ever say within 200 distance? Could he not have meant within 200 ft elevation?
    Maybe he said that to make us believe someone has nearly tripped over it when, in fact, no one has been within miles.

    • If I recall correctly (Correct me if I am wrong) in the LGFI scenario, the little girl had a map of the Rocky Mountains – NOT a “Good Map”. A map of the Rockies would not provide sufficient detail to show the hoB. IMO. Just as the map at the end of TFTW does not show the hoB, because of its scale.

      I use the 1 sentence = 1 clue approach. Therefore clue #1 is in stanza #1, clue two = first three lines of stanza #2 and #3 =
      “Put in below the home of Brown”

      Since the hoB will not show up on the map she has, she will get no closer to the treasure than the first two clues.

      Good luck to all searchers and STAY SAFE


        • Thanks PDenver, I thought that I was right.

          “Can a little girl in India, who speaks good English, but only has your poem and a map of the US Rocky Mountains, work out where the treasure is? ”

          So my statements still stand.

          Thanks again.


          • You’re welcome, JD.

            I believe the statement might mean that the rest of the poem, past the first two clues, is our physical journey. This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

      • She can get to the first two clues but not past that. Because she is not from America and would not understand the poem enough to move with confidence. She is in fact a little girl from India. We are all adults… for the most part but we have books, maps, libraries, google earth etc etc. and we can’t get past the second clue. I think we all need to leave this one alone and try to figure out why we can’t get past the first two clues.

        • Med evac.

          Fenn said: “It might just as well have been a ‘boy’ from Waxahatchee, where my father was born, or an ‘Arab kid’ from Marrakech…..”

          You said: “She can get to the first two clues but not past that. Because she is not from America and would not understand the poem enough to move with confidence.”

          So a boy from the place fenn’s Dad was born would not be able to get passed the first two clues either, apparently. So what does, not being from America – have to do with it?

          I wonder if fenn’s 9 year old self could figure the poem out? That is actually a two stage question.

          Could fenn, at the age of 9 figure out the poem when he was 9?

          Could fenn’s 9 years self, in this time period, figure out the poem?

          Beyond the first two clues….

          • Seeker. My apologies for the America. I didn’t have the exact quote in front of me. My answer however still stands. No child will figure it out… Perhaps not even a young fenn couldn’t figure it out. Just because he wrote it does not mean a younger self would understand what was written. Perhaps he could though. I just do not believe that a child will crack this. Just IMO .

        • I believe that all Forrest was telling us with “the little girl from India” statement is, that we can only get the first two clues from a map. After that we need a more intimate grasp of the area, such as personal geographic knowledge or a physical presence.

          This also helps to verify my belief that the poem is a set of directions and if followed precisely will take us to the chest.

          Like the poem itself, I believe this statement needs to be taken at face value.

          • Amen Dal sir. You gave 2 valid reasons. I believe one is correct. IMO of course of course. Forrest and you have enough miles for a round-trip to Florida and perhaps a Disney cruise.

    • As searchers are telling their chase stories, it reminds me of the 1st paragraph in the poem. Aren’t our memories “treasures bold”, also where we keep our secrets?
      I believe F is telling us to go where he keeps his secrets and treasures bold. That of course is his “memoir” where he can hint about where the TC is. I think that’s why the little girl can’t get closer then the 1st 2 clues. She needs his memoir and all she has is a map of the RM’S and the poem.
      All we need is the poem and a good map!
      The “good map” is the pathway he leads us down in his memories, which is needed to decipher the poem. IMO

      • A Columbus, OH radio Station aired this interview with Forrest on December 3rd, 2015.

        This is where I did a double take… fenn said… you don’t need to read my. OK, so does that mean we don’t need the book other than the poem is in the book?

        Fenn said… you need to decipher the clue. OK, so is all the information in the poem?

        Fenn said… the book will help. OK, so we’re back to little Indy or even a boy from dear old Dads hometown, can’t seemingly get pass the first two clues… Logically the thing missing is what we all had from the start of all this… the book and a poem within.

        Auugh! Charlie Brown…. Why? don’t we need to ‘read the book’?

        LOL… talk about the “what IF’s”

        Here’s the interesting part… the first clue has been told to us, as being the most important clue… need to dwell on it more, without it you have notta, but yet, it seems we can locate it by either the poem or a map… apparently no book need for this. OK,
        Now we have a couple thought… 1. the book is needed for the next clue[s]… or 2. the first two clue are a must to be at… for the next clue to physically present itself…. no information in the book or in the poem or even on a good map.

        The again, the next clue may not be a place. If so, is the information at clue[s] 1 or 2 the only place for that, non-physical clue, to be answered?

        Lucy is pulling the ball out from underneath us again… lol

        • Ok, f said you need the poem and a “good map”. Where do we find a good map? There are literally thousands of maps. How do we pick the good one?
          I still believe the good map is the path he leads us down in his memories. Imo

          • eagles, the chase existed before the books – were those early searchers bound to fail?

          • I think I have my dates mixed up, eagles. The TToTC was early 2010, and I thought it followed the publication of the poem on the web, but I think I’m quite possibly wrong.

          • Question posted 6/28/2014:
            “Is the map that needs to be used to discover where warm waters halt found online or in paper form? or both?” ~mdc777
            C’mon now agent 777, a map is a map. The more detailed maps are most useful if you have the right map, but I’m not sure I needed to tell you that.f
            Dear Forrest,
            You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:
            a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and
            b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”
            Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail? ~ Steve
            No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?


            The first comment refers to; useful if you have the ‘right’ map. So is the good map and the right map only of the RM’s?

            The second comment refer two two clues [ not necessarily the first two clue, we do not know what those are ]. But yet it seems Steve can’t go on with confidence, just like the Girl, boy, kid… If the clue are contagious; touching, neighboring… Is it possible that those two clues reveal the next important piece of information, and only know if you’re at that location? it doesn’t matter is it’s another Place or an understanding of something… you can not move on without it.

            Many have indicated to fenn where they were… they all seem to go pass the next seven clue… walked pass, went pass, basically kept going… maybe the next clue is something, is not so much a “place’ to go to, but something to see.

          • or Clue one results in a word or phrase than when combined with clue two results in a whole new clue. example clue #1 – the woods clue #2 – marsh land results in forest fen

        • Seeker, one curious thing is that we know for sure that ‘HIS MAP’ the one highlighted that came on the too far to walk book is not a ‘GOOD MAP’. Fenn has never said, all you need is the poem and my map. He has also said google earth is a good tool but apparently still not the ‘GOOD MAP’. So what are we looking for, which one is the good map?

          I have seen and studied the paper maps, they don’t seem to provide any more info than what you can find on google or bing. If anything the online maps are always ahead of paper cause they are updated constantly.

          • In my current experience, Google Earth is useful for measuring distances and to just get a general 3D perspective of the area of interest. The best tools are the poem, TTOTC (tons of hints), social media of Fenn, media appearances, Google (lots of translations and reading), Google maps, mapcarta, and Google Earth as cross-ref because they don’t always have the same info, and enough of these to get a few clous to hit to then inspire hiking and exploring for the other clous.

            Of course if you live in the area and are able to recognize Fenn’s allusions, there is an advantage of already having “the vision of a 79 year old” and only needing the poem.

          • EC. what about the good map? if you were to take ff’s advise at heart, ‘all you need is the poem and a good map’ which map will you choose?

          • Well, I’ve posted two here, the current cartoon map of Seven Falls, and the older trail map. I think what he’s saying is that a map of the right area will get you motivated. I also use Google Earth to drop pins, which then give me a way to kind of mark my path and relative distances. I can then see “do I really need to walk up all those stairs again and up that big hilly path, or can I pay the fee at hotel conk, drive around back, and hop a fence on Old Stage Road to get a good feel if the HHJ cottage ruins are involved?” The cartoon map of the feature names is a really good map because it helps build confidence that the TTOTC stories connect.

          • EC. I knew the answer to my question before I even posted it. lol.

            I will let you work your seven falls theory all the way to the end. I mean, you have to turn every rock and tree stump out there until you either find the chest or confidently eliminate this area completely as a choice for all of us. Don’t get arrested though…

          • @Oz10 – Actually, I think I have enough of a case to be confident about the first 8 clues, and a general sense that the 9th is in the right area. Madrid did that for me. I also trust that Fenn has planted everything needed in his book and the poem to be able to confidently walk to it. I don’t think I need to turn over that many rocks or fallen trees, just those that match what he’s describing. I haven’t gotten all the way there on the 9th yet, but I feel like I’m super close to cracking that final geometry, or maybe fence post, or whatever that final thing is, to then finally cross the pons asinorum. My eyes are certainly looking for it.

          • @ E.C.- you sound very confident about your solve. Are you heading to the destination soon and hoping to locate the 9th clue when you get there. Or are you waiting til you get the 9th clue before you head out? Its nice to hear someone so confident.

            And, I’m just curious. You seem quite unconcerned about sharing the general location of your solve. Are you not worried someone might use your ideas and get there first?

            Hope you dont mind the questions. Just curious.

          • @Puzzled – I’m already in Colorado Springs now, just extended my stay another week because the snow interrupted. It mostly melted today so if it holds and I get further in my grunting through the translation work, I’ll be out immediately at whatever I come up with.

            I’m confident enough in my interpretation to have been motivated into action. After failing in Yellowstone, and giving up, my skepticism meter was exponentially higher. So to be here now, it had to be compelling.

            It was with Helen Hunt Jackson, Ranomafana, Haute Matsiatra, La Buse, and the Seven Falls feature names… and only became more compelled after finding the old ponderosa pine, seeing the older map showing Cripple Creek, finding the wooden Indian and Babe Ruth, seeing a photo of Suzanne Somers and a f-ton of Fechin paintings at the hotel, hearing the bells at Will Rogers Shrine of the Sun, visiting and seeing the frieze group castle wall patterns, being blown away by the murals, connecting to mural crowns and the pattern on the chest, then connecting to Madrid Coat of Arms and a public park bordering Seven Falls called Strawberry Fields… Yeah, I’d say I’ve collected too many things in sequential order to be forcing a “solve” (as much as I hate that use of the word), so I’m confident enough to be in action.

            As for blabbing… Puzzled, no one else is interested in connecting to it because they have better solutions, so why should I worry?

          • fen1

            low land covered wholly or partially with water; boggy land; a marsh.
            the Fens, a marshy region W and S of The Wash, in E England.

  147. I’m going to chime in here on the continuing “little girl from India” discussion. Forgive me if I come across as opinionated or dogmatic.

    1. FF writes a poem with clues to a treasure
    2. He tells us that all we need is that same poem and a good map
    3. He writes a memoir and says hints to understanding the clues are scattered in it, but not deliberately placed

    Beyond a mildly interesting (and extremely frustrating) intellectual exercise, why are people worrying about the little girl conundrum when it won’t help anyone get on the trail?

    In order for the poem to work, it needs to contain both the clues AND the key to unlocking the clues. IMO, it does that very clearly. Without the key, each and every WWWH is just a guess and a bunch of gas/motel receipts (I know, I have them in abundance!). And you really don’t need anything beyond what Forrest has specified – not his books, nor history lessons, nor literature – not even a biography of the Earl of Sandwich…

    So, I hear you ask, if you don’t have the treasure, voxpops, how the heck can you be so sure? Because the poem also contains confirmation that is so compelling you’d have to be a fanatical follower of the Church of Crazy Coincidences to be a disbeliever. You will know when you’r