Scrapbook One Hundred Fifty One…


MARCH 2016

A Stellar Solution
The author of this story asked that he not be identified, so Dal named him Stern. But after reading it in the Scrapbook, and deciding he was some kind of a genius, I begged to allow his real name be used. He replied, “Eck! I’m not that kind of brave! How about Reddigo? He was my first dog and a weiner dog at that. Somehow at three years old, ‘The Ruff and Reddy Show’ became ‘Reddigo.’ Mom says I wanted to name him after both cartoon characters at once and that’s how it came out.”

The name doesn’t identify the writer, but it does show that he’s human. f


Mr. Fenn,

A 10″ x 10″ target, to my mind, is an impossibly small target considering the vastness of your target area.  How to reconcile those two extremes has been on my mind a lot and has gotten me off on a tangent that, to my knowledge, nobody has considered.  Possibly not even you, but, given your aviator experiences, it’s a distinct possibility that you’ll understand my reasoning perfectly.  Of course if you did, my hat is off.  It’s brilliant.
However, it’s so brilliant that I have some difficulty in believing that anyone would ever come up with it.  I’m not exactly sure what that meant, but nevertheless…

Google Earth has a sister component named Google Sky*.  If you look up, to the stars, in the right place and at the right time, an entire series of clues fall into place.  For instance,  Acamar, in Eridanus, and Arching are both excellent candidates for “where warm waters halt” because Eridanus is the river constellation and is visible only in the Southern sky. Both stars are known as “the end of the river.” Archinar isn’t visible from above 33d so it gets the axe, leaving Acamar as a reasonable start place. If I assume Santa Fe as a starting point and look south (“As”), there is distinct time of year when Acamar and all the subsequent clues (described below) are above the southern horizon.  That date in the Fall, more or less, is August 22 or roll that to the Vernal equinox and you have the same thing.  Assume “I” is the intercept angle from the horizon up and it’s not a big jump to “horizontal azimuth vernal equinox” or “have.”  At that point, all of a sudden, the “home of Brown,” becomes apparent. The First point of Aries, as described in “Brown’s Nautical Almanac” is your HOB.

There a couple of other indicators.  “Not far, but too far to” sounds an awful lot like “Not Fornax, but to for(nax) two” or Beta Fornax, which lines up with “the bend in the river,” or Angetenar.  Of, course the perfect place to put in.

Horizontal East from there is Columbia (the dove, no place for the meek), Canopus (no paddle, the rudder), the end (Puppis), ever drawing (Pictor, the easel), heavy loads (Vela, the sails), and water high (Antlia, the water pump), and, of course, the chest or Pyxis.  So, who is the blaze?  Beats me.

Wezen (wise and) points at Sirius. Maybe, but there are two wezens in that region of space.”In peace” or in Pyxis, points at Naos, or “the bright and shining one.”  Down, in this reasoning, is the incidence angle to the horizon. A minimum of two over lapping great circles drawn from the incidence angle will define a specific location on Earth.  Whether that’s the start or finish, I don’t yet know.

After that, I’m stumped, but if I ever nail down a specific sidereal hour angle, I think I have a reasonable shot at measuring an assumed position using navigational stars, incident angles, and great circles.  That answers my original question on how to pinpoint a 10″x10″ plot of ground, or at least eliminate a lot of potential targets.  Of course all that also
perfectly fits with your statement about over thinking the solution.  I’m really good at that.

Then there’s my alternate theory.  In Google Earth, just west of Hegben Lake are a couple of silhouettes created by the general land forms.  Directly west is a gentleman with a staff and a hat that looks suspiciously like your TFTW cover, he’s even carrying a sack of gold (Gold Butte).  Directly above him is the silhouette of a ram, and nestled right below there is the city of Sheridan, which is suspiciously close to Sharadan, the second star seen (right behind Mesarthim) in the First point of Aries.  It’s a loose connection to the star solution, but there none the less.

Like before, all the clues are there, like mesa art, as silhouettes and landmarks.  The blaze is a cow’s face.  Wise is a river.  Divide is “ever drawing.”  No place for the meek is Silver Star.  The chest, when you see it, is a heart attack waiting to happen.  Drill down and you find that “Why” has a question mark.  Bell Mountain points to McCartney Mountain.  If you “list ten” degrees good, you’ll finally see the wood.  At that point, you had better be brave.  Else Tesuque will get you.  Just north of there is a flying key, which presumably, fits the keyhole, to its South.  I sent you that picture for a Christmas card.  It’s just north east of Glen, MT.  Take a look from about 30,000 ft.  You’ll see the chest.  Zoom in and you’ll see a great big W with a question mark above it.  Nine clues, start to finish, but again, I can’t imagine anyone ever figuring all this out.  Let alone being within a few hundred feet and not finding the prize.  It’s far too simple after a point.

I know.  It’s a stretch but good for the brain.  You quoted Einstein and after a lot of digging I found the magazine article for that original interview.  His full quote includes another line.  “… Imagination encircles the world.”  So there you go!

Oh, btw, I just ordered “A Walk Too Far.”  If it only came with a sextant, my life would be complete.



*Another excellent star mapping program is “Star Walk.”


206 thoughts on “Scrapbook One Hundred Fifty One…

  1. Interesting that you came up with this. I have been pursuing Spirit Quests. There are many more connections than I originally thought. Todays study led me to a location where a Spirit Quest location aligns with constellations. I also found what could be the Brown connection Ive been digging for. You could be on to something. More research tomorrow.

  2. Stan,
    But if the Rangus Lona didn’t articulate with Micanthers the azimuth to Cassiopeia would be off, thus negating your hypothesis. Can you explain that for me please?

        • I know I’m gonna regret saying this, but here goes:
          When I think of Stern, I think of Howard Stern.
          When I think of Howard, I think of Howard the duck.

          • I too, think of a duck as I sit here alone with a cup of Joe – oops, got it too full.

            Gonna have to expand my range of thot or else trade it for something maybe even better. In the meantime my plan is to head towards the second star to the right and straight on ’til morning.

      • Oh, yeah, the Rangus Lona. You are absolutely right sir. In fact, I think it’s probably a good thing you are.

        • Stan,
          I’m not that kind of brave either. But your stellar story made me tarry a little, and now I’ll fix my gaze on the blazes in the sky.

    • Well Forrest the obvious answer to this question (I know you didn’t ask me but answering anyway) is that Rangus Lona does in fact articulate with micanther so the azimuth does align with Cassopeia thereby supporting his hypothesis….and I will prove it as soon as I figure out where Rangus Lona and Micanthers are.

    • So about Polaris…When Shakespeare compared Julius Ceaser to a star that “doth hold his place” he was referring to Polaris.


      The skies are painted with unnumb’red sparks,
      They are all fire and every one doth shine;
      But there’s but one in all doth hold his place.

      Julius Ceaser III i 63-65


      • You know that big picture on the Old Santa Fe Trading Company website where Forrest is sitting amidst his vast collection? See the camera on the shelf?

        That’s Polaris.

        • Mindy – you have good eyesight to see that camera on the shelf.

          My first camera was a Pentax K1000, and you?

          • I don’t remember, but it was probably something cheap. The first decent camera I bought was a Nikon something or other…

    • nope…that “aw shucks” drawl doesn’t disguise your genius level IQ Forrest. Not for one red-neck minute.

      Of course, we’re all working thru Wicki definitions on an astronomical level to glimpse even a layman’s understanding of what was just discussed on this thread.

      “James Leslie (of Edinburgh.) – 1806 – ‎English language
      Parallels of altitude are termed almacantars, almacanteras or al- micanthers. ALWAYS. ad. Ere, incessantly, indesinent- …”

      Locolobo, please pass the spam. Lia, throw me a Lone Star beer.

  3. Interesting… I’ve thought about stars as well. How about the Hopi mythology stars? Blue Kashina? (the 9 signs), etc. “The end is ever drawing nigh” may be Sirius (drawing west). Nigh also means west.

    The poem is just too ambiguous — it fits everything, every scenario and every groups of place names if you look deeply. IMO There is something everyone is missing. A trick or key to the solve hidden inside the poem.


  4. Can I go outside for recess now? Way over my head.

    Forrest, I loved your story about escaping Spanish class down the old iron slide down.

    • I am going to go out to recess with Lia…

      But I did notice that you say:

      “However, it’s so brilliant that I have some difficulty in believing that anyone would ever come up with it.”

      “I can’t imagine anyone ever figuring all this out.”

      But YOU did figure it out! Wow!

      And I never even sent Fenn a Christmas card… 🙂

    • If the Lone Ranger doesn’t whisper to Mica the degree to which her beauty surpasses that of Cassiopeia,…..all is lost!!! 🙂 🙂

      • Why whisper, if it is remotely factual?
        Where’s the ‘will not aid factor’
        While most want to think there is a message behind everything fenn places out there in cyberland, wouldn’t this be taking another’s clues/answers and passing it on, if any of it held a drop of water.

        • 🙂 Yes, it would seem that he may have availed himself of Lia’s largesse and partaken of a Starus Lona (or 2). And all along I thought he only imbibed H2O. What you articulate is steeped in certitude, oh wise one! 🙂

        • True, nothing here of substance , but it is all that can be talked about. Distraction at its finest. Fine by me maybe I can gain a step or two on the big race. imo

  5. Stan,
    Although it is certainly possible to navigate using the stars, you lost me at ” If you look up, to the stars, in the right place and at the right time, an entire series of clues fall into place.”
    Granted my skills at navigating by the stars is very limited do to the fact my Garmin is much more operator friendly. How could a person ever see the blaze and then the TC without a flashlight or will the journey be done on a full moon?

    • I don’t know if the answet lies with stars, but I do know that there are Native American sites that are designed to be mirror images of the constellations. So one would not have to be at the location when the stars are actually in alignment to understand the significance of the place. In other words, you would study the location and know the significance of it and how it relates to the stars. Im currently looking at one such place.

  6. I think I must have skipped that class. Oh yeah, that was the time I got paddled for it! I don’t consider that being up the creek with a paddle!


    I should have ‘really’ listened to my Mother better when we were in Mexico City, and also visited the main pyramid at Chichen Itza. (Subjects like this were of great interest to her.) Astronomy; her second love.

    *The vernal equinox is probably the most important astronomical event of the year*

    *Sunlight is a mixture of all the colors of the…. * rainbow


    • Stimulation and intellectual imagination provided us by way of the stars, planets and other remarkable gifts coming from a beyond awesome universe; defined and better understood by some who will bask in the glow coming from the experiencing a….marvel gaze.

      There are quite unique locations and specific times of the year that are extra fascinating; and a chase becomes even more challenging and…….thrilling.

    • 42,

      Come back, where ever you are. Missing your advanced thinking! ( Any thoughts about the “Black Mat?”)

      Remember “the Mantle”


  8. Stan,

    I already thought of all that and the chest was not there. However, you may have missed the part where you divide by 19 and then multiply by seven…

  9. Forrest may have said don’t overthink it, but didn’t he also say something like the person who finds the chest will have studied ….?

  10. Ummm ahhh, ok. My thinking is that a pilot seldom navigates by the stars.
    A sailor, yes. A mountain man maybe. This is not to say it is not possible, just unlikely. Based on the fact that Forrest has to the best of my limited knowledge
    never hinted at using the stars in finding any of the clues on the ground.

    As for the second proposed solution. Distance is an outstanding question.
    Forrest hid the chest when he was 79 or 80 yrs young.
    Here is what we have deduced so far. Forrest drove his car to the general are where he made two trips from his car to the hidey spot. Now even this is subject
    to reinterpretation. I.E Did Forrest go to the spot twice driving his car??
    Oh my did the rabbit hole just get deeper?

    • Aircraft Pilot’s don’t Navigate by the stars, but during WW2 and on most Early AF Bombers, they had what were called Navigators – a member of the flight crew – I don’t remember on B-52s, I think it was there, but on B-17s, a periscope like tube stuck out of the top of the fuselage, and, at night, the Navigators could read the stars and correct their flight path, sending the information to the Pilot .. Of course, Forrest was a Fighter Pilot, but he did Navigate using his thumb ..

  11. Interesting theory, but probably a bit too complicated for novice star gazers like most of the general population.

    I do like it, though!

  12. Really cool thought, he wrote his poem in the stars. Consider that the names of all the stars are a human creation. Astronomical locations can be named and renamed, different cultures view the same places with very different perspectives. Look at how the Mayans, Anasazi, or the Egyptians viewed the night sky. Even in modern times the geography of the cosmos is always changing. Nine planets, nine clues, except we now have eight planets and the hoB. Maybe we need to be on a boat at night to understand the directions in the poem. Thinking outside the box may be the key to what’s inside the box.

    • Yea Blaze, then I’m in trouble….Living by Chicago the closest thing to a star we see. Is the Moon….2 trips past and NOW F starts talking about stars. Heck I could of quite a while ago.
      I was trained never give up!!!

      • I hope that training serves you well. If you don’t think the sun is a star,
        you may be searching for a long time. All IMO.

    • Your opinion is appreciated, Blazeone – It is kind of difficult to “look outside the box” when one elects to remain inside of it.

      Below is a short ‘explanation’ of why the Flyer might utilize the numbers 3, 6 and 9, so often.

      Tesla: The ‘key” to the universe?


  13. Part of his analysis is absolutely 100% correct and has been confirmed… and I am not going to comment on which aspect, but his thoughts align directly with mine. And is it crazy or brilliant minds can think alike?! I don’t know… but it tripped me out when I read this story.

    Stars, calculations, secret words and meanings.. etc. etc. Makes me think of the old movie “Goonies” like a hidden pirate ship filled with gold is waiting to be discovered. Only this pirate ship is tiny.. 10×10..

    Forrest if you read this… please, do more interviews like the one at the Bookstore years ago with the great audio. Our minds are thirsty for more clues and hints…

    • Aldebaran is important, if the solve contains any stars. It’s the bull’s eye. Line it up with Polaris (the camera in the picture on Old Santa Fe Trading Co), and see what you get. I’m not sure what you get, but it lines up…lol.

  14. Sub and Sub again….The Mystery of the Stars and It is Written in the Stars!!! Did he not say Peggy was watching Dancing with the Stars? One of us will figure it all out one of these days. MS Girl!!

  15. We’re going to need a big sky to see all those stars. I bet you can see the stars better from tarry scant with marvel gaze. But what if it’s cloudy? Oh well, as long as we know the stars are there. I guess then maybe we could see the distant twinkling lights somewhere that warm waters halt.

      • Jmbguidry, I can confirm with certainty it’s not at Big Sky Mt. When I emailed Forrest last June after completing a search there, he said he has Not been to bigsky since 1973 when it was developed into a resort. Hope that helps rule out one area.

  16. Where did this comment from in the 9 clues?

    A 10″ x 10″ target, to my mind, is an impossibly small target considering the vastness of your target area.

  17. Stars move. Hourly and seasonally. Keep thinking the stars are aligning for the treasure! That will allow the rest of us to look for real Clues.

    • Star have been used for alignment for thousands of years and with great accuracy. Structures around the world, built 5 thousand years ago or more, still have their alignments to the stars exact. There will come a time when even those do move enough to throw those off… but how long will that take doesn’t matter for the chase… and there will come a time when Earth gets swallowed by the sun… I wonder if the chest would be found by then?

      And when ya talk about alignment… it was very difficult to do a fly by of Pluto 9 years after the launch… but not impossible. is this the thing we need to plan for? doing the math.

  18. I’d once got it in my head to look up certain stars and constellations. I wanted to see if there were any numbers related to the positions that could relate to GPS on earth. I had thought that ‘as above, so below ‘ or vice versa. But it was over my head.
    For now I will have to stay with simple solves. Namely, WWWH is Aqua Caliente and Picuris Peak is HOB. That is the general area. The rest of the clues are in a specific area. I have mentioned that spot on a few occasions. I just have to figure out how the box is wet and yet be brave and in the wood. But I am going to keep it real simple.

    • I keep everything as simple as f’s poem, anything more then that is over thinking it. imo

    • wet: Involving the performance of experiments rather than the design or analysis of them (i.e., a wet lab).

      He designed and analyzed the Poem. The next step would be to test the theory.

      The chest is “wet” now because that is the phase the Poem is in. It would seem his hypothesis is holding up quite well…..100 years…..1000 years…..????. 🙂

      • hmmm… I’m thinking it’s “wet” because of it’s association with alcohol.

      • Very nice alternate interpretation, locolobo.

        It’s so nice to read comments, like yours above, that infuse the chase with some intelligent imagination, vis-a-vis trite, stodgy interpretations of FF’s verbal comments and written words and phrases. Congrats.


  19. Geeze Louise, I have 9 of Forrests’ books, and now my brain is really hurting, even my hair hurts.

    • Sally2,
      Would you mind identifying which of the books have a double omega as a colophon at the end of the book? I know of three at least, and vaguely remember someone mentioning a fourth (maybe). I think a lot of searchers would have an interest in knowing this information. Thanks.

      • Dick , sorry i saw this post so late but i will happily look for you tomorrow, and post it for you when i am rested, getting ready to go to bed, almost 2pm here in Arkansas.

      • Hi Dick Evans, I looked at my books for you and only 3 of them have the double
        omega at the end. Those are, The Thrill of the Chase, To Far to walk and Seventeen dollars a square inch and i was mistaken, I have 10 of Forrests’ books not 9. I also have the one his friend Charmay Allred wrote.

        • @sally2 : ” I also have the one his friend Charmay Allred wrote.”

          🙂 Thanks!!

          • Hey Locolobo, that is cool, mine is # 43 out of 250,not many of them printed.Do you have the Leon Gaspard book?
            I am searching NM, what state are you searching? if you dont mind telling.

          • Sally, I was quoting you and was being sarcastic with “thanks”….. while beating my head on my desk.

            LOL!! I wish I owned one! And, I almost did last year, I had an important lesson, reinforced for me…..keep your dang mouth shut!!! It is a lesson I learned early in life and I am older’n dirt!!

            This copy was for sale last
            **Author Signed, “Charmay” on the title page – also has an ink inscription to a named couple by Forrest Fenn, the Publisher. A Limited Edition, this is Number 145 of 250 Printed. Additional note from Fenn to the same couple is laid in.
            I ran across it by accident and researched Mabel. While I doubted it would be of benefit in the Chase, I thought it would be neat to bring it home to Texas, and to own what is probably one of the first books published by OHL&CC….. I was busy and intended to purchase the following weekend.

            Now, for the funny part (HA_HA). For some unexplainable reason, the following day I posted about it on ChaseChat I really figured the price would be a deterrent for most.

            But, Saturday, when I went to purchase….IT HAD SOLD!!!!! I haven’t yet found another one.

            Yeah, Forrest, I know. You probably have a rule about that in your Top 10…..go ahead and rub it in, I deserve it!! 🙂 :)

          • Locolobo, Wow, that sounds like it would have been a keeper, mine is signed by Charmay. but A note from Forrest would have made it an even better keeper.
            I know what you mean by missing out because you didnt keep quiet. I have done that once or twice in my 65 years.
            Friends have told me i am to trusting of people, but i still like to have a positive attitude. It makes my days seem more sunny and bright.
            Think positive and maybe another copy will come up for sale.
            Good luck in the chase for the book and for the chest.

  20. I once had these same thoughts sitting on a bench wearing my tin foil suit talking with my friend that no one else seemed to notice. Disturbing how that reflection simplified my solutions with two simple points.

  21. I’m just going to say one thing…the stars are in the poem’s map, it’s all you need.
    Now, figure out why you need the flash light, and you’ll see it!

  22. I find it interesting there is not much conversation around Forrest’s comment above regarding the azimuth of Cassiopeia…

    this is the wikipedia intro for Cassiopeia.

    “Cassiopeia is a constellation in the northern sky, named after the vain queen Cassiopeia in Greek mythology, who boasted about her unrivalled beauty. Cassiopeia was one of the 48 constellations listed by the 2nd-century Greek astronomer Ptolemy, and it remains one of the 88 modern constellations today. It is easily recognizable due to its distinctive ‘M’ shape when in upper culmination but in higher northern locations when near lower culminations in spring and summer it has a ‘W’ shape, formed by five bright stars. It is bordered by Andromeda to the south, Perseus to the southeast, and Cepheus to the north. It is opposite the Big Dipper. In northern locations above 34ºN latitude it is visible year-round and in the (sub)tropics it can be seen at its clearest from September to early November in its characteristic ‘M’ shape. Even in low southern latitudes below 25ºS it can be seen low in the North.”

    As a pilot for the Air Force Forrest most assuredly used celestial navigation. Up until the storm of GPS in the 90’s, the U.S. Navy considered ‘visual navigation’ as the primary means to obtain position. Which included visual land bearings as well as visual celestial bearings. Why? because is the most accurate. There is no doubt FF was an excellent celestial navigator during his service time, though you never hear him brag of this skill. A skill that obtains the most accurate fix of position if done perfectly, easily accurate within a 10’x10′ area.

    Stan, I believe your theory is excellent and may have opened the door to the thinking to the ‘correct’ solve. IMO

    So Mr. Fenn mentions two ficticous spots in connection to the azimuth to Cassiopeia? The fact that it is shaped like a ‘M” and like a ‘W’ in far north locations. Yet the at 34N is the cutoff latitude for seeing it year round or not…

    In his Scrapebook list of things you don’t need he never mentions anything regarding celestial navigation skills. A good map tho is def needed to place a celestial fix on … among many other things; sextant, clear horizon, watch, map of stars, surface map/chart, oh and a flashlight…. how do you think those navigators read the degrees on the sextant at dusk/dawn/night… we always used a flashlight… with a red lens of course.

    Guess now I gotta wonder if Rangus Lona and Micanthers arent the place to shoot your azimuths from. Maybe some better position to use for AP (approx pos.)

    Good luck Stan or is it Stern, what is the difference? a=er?

    • Navy,

      I have a feeling that when Forrest said “Micanthers,” he was referring to an obsolete term, “almicanthers,” which are the parallel lines drawn through every degree of the Meridian. The Rangus Lona is another slightly off celestial word.

      The azimuth of a celestial body is: The arc of the horizon intercepted
      between the north or south point (according as it is the south or
      north pole which is elevated),and the circle of azimuth passing through the
      place of the body.

      Azimuth should be always reckoned from the point of the horizon most remote from the elevated pole westward (so as to agree in general directions with the apparent diurnal motions of the stars),and carry its reckoning from 0 to 360″ if always reckoned positive,considering the eastward reckoning as negative. Azimuth and altitude are the horizon coordinates for describing the points of the
      celestial concave relatively to the position of an observer on the earth’s surface.

      To find the azimuth of Cassiopeia, you first need to know if you want to find the true azimuth, or the magnetic azimuth. Since Forrest included the magnetic declination on his “map,” I’m assuming that if this is the way to solve the poem, you need to find the magnetic azimuth.

      Then you draw a circle that represents the Earth. You draw your North South line according to magnetic North South (NS) Then you draw the equator (EQW). Those are easy. Then you mark the Zenith (Z) and the elevated pole, which I think is Polaris (P), and mark Cassiopeia (X). Then, you draw the circle of declination, which starts at P, runs through X to the equator and you mark a D where the line hits the equator (PXD). Then you find the circle of altitude by starting at the Zenith (Z), drawing a straight line through Cassiopeia (X), and continuing the straight line to the curve of the Earth, where you mark a B (ZXB). SZB is the azimuth, and it can be found by determining the angle PZB, which is its supplement.

      From there you can determine the hour angle, which in Forrest’s case is just past midnight. And this is all really too complicated for me, so you can just read the whole thing on page 18 here:


      There are some other really interesting words to check out in this glossary, things like “bore” and “Log line.”

      • Stern and Starboard were very important for the Vikings in their navigation, Ports were on the left and Stars like Polaris, the North Star were stern, rear and usually off, on the right side of the ship where the oar or rudder was placed for steering into ports, all naval, aeronautical and astronomical terms originate from these root words and home of Brown and put in may as well as points of the compass and Latitude and longitude are all related in origins.

        So do your homework and tell me how HOB is woven into this poem and our co-ordinates?

        Tom T

  23. Cassiopeia notable at being the brightest’… it is also ‘the’ best radio source in the sky. Observing it this past November was a real eye opener.

  24. 23kachinas,

    I believe it was you who first introduced Cassiopeia here awhile back. It continues to fascinate!


    • SL – I will never lose interest in studying nature, stars and birds.

      In December 2014 I gazed upon Cassiopeia from the One Wave hot tub at Ten Thousand Waves. If your ever in Santa Fe book a evening visit so you can see the stars.

  25. Hmmm. Very interesting read indeed. Though it makes me wonder about ff saying “Nobody is going to happen upon my treasure chest. They will have to figure out the clues and go to it. Somebody could find it this summer, or it could be a thousand years. The guy I hope finds my treasure is a redneck from Texas who’s lost his job, with a pickup truck and 12 kids and a wife to support.” (from I understand it’s ff’s “hope” and certainly possible, but then again we are not to overthink and need only the poem and a good map? hmmm.

  26. ay yai yaEEEE………Got the heeby geebys, Ay do, from dippin into all them hot n’ heavy starry, starry night words —- so much to consider, so little time ……… BUT PULLEASE DO NOT ANYONE IMPUNE THE GENTLE MR. FENN’S INTEGRITY.

  27. Way way over my head. Can someone explain how using a celestial map could lead a searcher to a specific location on the ground? Wouldn’t you need to know roughly when FF hid it?

    • Hi Tommy — sure. Here’s one way you ~could~ do it. The celestial sphere is organized in much the same way as the earth’s grid of latitude and longitude lines, with right ascension corresponding to longitude, and declination corresponding to latitude. For instance, declination +90 degrees is the equivalent of the North Pole. Declination 0 degrees corresponds to a point along the earth’s equator. So if you wanted to pick the celestial analog of a geographical point on the earth, there is a 1-to-1 mapping from lat/long to RA/Dec. For instance, longitude 90 W, latitude 44 N would be RA 18h 00m, Dec +44d.

      The main difficulty is one of precision, and the devil is definitely in the details. You can’t just arbitrarily pick a spot on the earth that you want to leave a treasure chest and expect there to be something notable in that part of the celestial sphere. You would have to pick a general area you were considering, convert its coordinates to celestial coordinates and see if there was something noteworthy “nearby” in the sky. And by nearby, I mean VERY nearby. A bright star even just 1 degree away would mean you’d need to shift your ground location by almost 70 miles to match it!

      So could Forrest have done this. Sure. But did he? Almost certainly not, IMO.

  28. Don’t get me started on stars again , now that I hope I am going in the right direction. LOL
    I think anyone who has read the book has thought of stars in at least one solution? You aren’t alone in your thoughts. Now my thoughts tried to tie an earthly location to a legend of a Masonic treasure , Forrests treasure and the stars. It was fun to think about.

    So many things we have learned on the Chase. Thank You Forrest !

  29. All this confusion about ff’s Navigation method to the TC suddenly reminds me of a very popular movie that I showed a lot in to troops and aviators and sailors, while I was in the Amphibious Navy, during the early Vietnam War, 1964 to 1968, yes we actually did such things, in country, it was part of my job, done to keep up morale which by 1969 was getting low, the name of this “Flick” as we affectionately called em in the 60’s was:

    And this movie was about a crazy search to find the “BIG W” and the treasure buried there, it has often been called the Maddest and Funniest comedy ever created and it was a big hit with the guys and gals in the military, who needed an escape from our mad, mad, mad world.

    So if you ever get a chance to see it there seems to be a lot of parity to the Thrill blogs and stories I read, it will not reveal the solve, but it explains in great detail the MADNESS we searchers can create in formulating our solve, like Cassiopeia or the W in the northern heavens at nigh, opposite the BIG DIPPER, but the only important thing is to remember the little dipper, which the last two stars at the bottom of the Big Dipper point at, and the end of the handle of the little dipper is was the most important navigational tool for thousands of years, and I quote Shakespeare from Julias
    “I am constant as the northern star,
    Of whose true-fix’d and resting quality
    There is no fellow in the firmament.”

    Julius Caesar (III, i, 60 – 62)
    With this speech, Caesar seals his fate. After arrogantly defying three separate warnings that his life would be in danger were he to go to the Senate this day (the ides of March), Caesar sits amid the noblemen (and would-be conspirators) and denies their request to repeal the banishment of Publius Cimber. He will not change his mind. He goes on to compare himself to the brightest star of all. His ego and self-importance grows stronger by the word. Finally he compares himself to an Olympian god, and that is when the attack begins. He is stabbed to death by men who, until that point, were on their knees asking that he repeal Cimber’s banishment.

    Tomorrow is March 15th, beware, the Ides of March begin and it is after all A MAD,MAD,

    Tom T

  30. Thank you, 23 K, remember, all gave some but some gave all, with an emphasis on the but, just like this treasure hunt, and our countries rancorous elections: “When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of all parties etc”… It is all about Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

    Elections are and will always be about the state of the Union, of said Union I was proud to do my duty, and so was ff, but we both look back with some regrets, not the least of which was leaving troubled waters and airways where our comrades and friends were left in a MAD, Mad, Mad, mad world.

    I know Winston Churchill was correct in assessing the US and it’s crazy form of democratic institutions, and therefore all democracies, but he redeemed himself with this tongue in cheek statement : “It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others have been tried”.


    Tom T

  31. WoW Stern! That was utterly brilliant in a 10 Magnitude!

    And I have a hard time finding the Big Dipper! :o) JK…I love the stars and your references…although I have never understood Anthony passed the fundamentals of Astronomy, I do love to look at the constellations. Even dabbled in Astrology just to see what that had to offer. But not for Fenn’s puzzle.

    “West of Hegben Lake”….very interesting…

    I’m searching that region as well and have come up with some interesting factoids.

    But thanks for the read…nicely done.


  32. I keep thinking that although the various sentences of the poem seem to be talking about different things, I believe that there is a cohesive theme in the sentences. I don’t think they are as disconnected as they at first appear.

    For those who have read my comments in the past week, I believe there is a connection to stars as well as to Native Americans. But, in my digging through google search, I came across a definition of one of the words in the poem that I had not previously considered. I suspect I may be on to an additional theme. Could all of these seemingly disconnected clues actually tie cohesively to a theme; and not just one theme, but three distinct themes? I think they do. In other words; all the lines of the poem tie to theme #1, tie in a different way to theme #2, and in a different way to #3. Sorry, but when I have heard FF refer to his poem as brilliant, I have been reminded that the line between brilliant and crazy can be fuzzy sometimes. But, now I wonder, . . . maybe it is brilliant after all? And, I do mean MAYBE. Jury still out on that.

    So now I am looking at this new theme that popped up when I saw a different definition for one of the words in the poem. Interesting! So perhaps, just possibly, a good portion of the clues if not all of them tie to a specific theme and are not disconnected bits as I had once thought. I still haven’t decided if the star theme is accidental or intentional and if the American Indian theme is accidental or intentional. But, I am seeing how all of the clues can connect to three completely different themes that all place me in the same location. Hmmm. This requires some deep thought!

    • And, what do you know! A definite Home of Brown sitting right at the place where all my clues line up with the three distinct themes placing me in a specific place I had not before considered! And, if indeed I’m on the right track now, I am finally understanding FF sense of humor. Ha, ha. . . this solve would be too good!

  33. Hey there Stern- The day you suggested the connection to the stars, I was already working on that very topic. I’ve since changed my WWWH and I’m coming along nicely on a Solve for it. But, I have been convinced that there has to be an astronomical connection or it isn’t right. I had bits and pieces of a connection. But, tonight the whole thing unfolded before my very eyes as I came across a local story that ties my location of WWWH directly to certain land features that line up with astronomical points in the sky at certain times of year. I believe I have now figured out what astronomical points are important in this solve and how these points connect to the history of the area I’m looking at. If I explained it more clearly than that, you would know exactly where to go. Rather excited about figuring this out. It fits very nicely with the other points on my map and all of the pieces seem to fit together smoothly. Keep looking at stars, constellations, and connections to points in the Rocky Mountains.

  34. Well I haven’t looked into celestial navigation so much as a solve for the location but I am sure I can use the copy of stellarium on my laptop to look over these aphophesis and see input if the water has some weight to it.

    I have another theory as to a solve I had emailed forrest about but I hadn’t expected a reply and didn’t get one anyway. As Dal said, he [probably] won’t reply if it is about a solution.

    • I ran back to my boat to cook some instant potatoes.

      Anyway, i think the reference to Sirius and wisen and naos is interesting. Off topic but glowing nonetheless, it reminds me of those potato lamp experiments all of the sudden, if you’d seen one with the copper wire in one place and zinc in the other a little gadget that makes a lightbulb light up from a potato.

      Anyway I still haven’t bought out my laptop to check on the star chart theory but it seems like it’s plausible. Not as plausible as having 30 clues refrain from purgery and pointing to four likely spots about 300′ diameter round within about 4 sq. mi.

    • Pandora are ya new don’t go look near that cow head you will be stuck in the muck we all have looked there 🙂 years ago

        • Ok that made no since just trying to save ya from loseing a boot in the swamp

          • There are many interestingly shaped lakes and ponds. Cold spring is shaped like a bell and Moon lake is shaped like Texas. But IMO the blaze is not a place.

          • Chris-
            If you believe as I do that the blaze is one of the nine clues in the poem, then Forrest would disagree with your point about the blaze not being a place… Note in the below quote from Mysterious Writings that Forrest refers to the “clues” as referring to places.

            Q. Did the same 9 clues exist when you were a kid and to your estimation will they still exist in 100 years and 1000 years?

            A. The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years but the geography probably will change before we reach the next millennia. The Rocky Mountains are still moving and associated physical changes will surely have an impact. If you are in the year 3009 it will be more difficult for you to find the treasure. f


          • Hi Dal. On one level yes, but the clues have multiple meanings. Most of the clues ultimately refer to places but only after the puzzle is complete does it make sense. I believe that the blaze is a few things. The first is the word that comes from the clue “blaze” and the second is the creation of the blaze image. Once the blaze image reveals the places, then the poem acts as a vague navigator on the ground,(although it’s probably not needed until tarry scant). This thing has gone on so long because most folks are stuck looking at maps and trying to make the clues fit places they find. The poem can work well for 1000 different places. IMO the blaze reveals hidden words that describe the exact location.


          • Hey Gypsy… I understand you’ve searched Montana exhaustively. I’m wondering if you’ve wandered over Nigh in the Wood and water high?


          • I’ve wondered over nigh up and up beyond nigh and water high water low. Snow knee deep. Blazes everywhere everywhere did I say everywhere. Now what was your question 🙂

          • I left out wood over the wood in the wood stuck and tripped on wood Wood in my finger wood in my hair houses of wood. How much wood could a wood chuck wood if a wood chuck could chuck wood A lot in Montana hahahha Yep going back soon 🙂

          • I asked Siri how much wood a woodchuck could chuck and she said “exactly 42 cords…everyone knows that!” Funny how everything leads us back to FF and his poem and hints but nothing leads us to his treasure…I too have been looking all over Montana, 4 trips, last summer to be exact, all the way from Texas. Will be making my final attempt soon- I wish someone would find it already, but not in my spot!

          • I went 7 times last year hahah and I think this too will be my last search 🙂 it’s sure has been a thrill I can sure say that much

          • DG,

            Just curious. Have you had any grizzly encounters up there. Good luck in your search.


            Windy City

          • Grizz tracks on back of hebgan lake. That’s about it and black bears on Madison. Ohhh and grizzz in the park 🙂

          • Funny, or ironic. I think i know where it is i have about 1000. Sq ft to search and that might take about 2 days. But I don’t have a car to drive out to the rockies so I’m waiting and saving up and watching. Maybe next month.

          • Hmmm… ok. Doesn’t seem like you’ve been to nigh? It’s actually a place. I’m not being quixotic, nor prone to lye.


          • It’s Ok…so be it. I just glanced over at your website and your analysis of Fenn’s TTOTC page 99. Some nice catches there. Seems a bit troubling for us folks looking in Montana however… since he’s possibly wearing a sombrero and flying Taos Air. Although he’d need a NM-based plane to fly to Montana! Did you see the arrow into the abyss? I may know where that is…. but dagnabbit, it’s a hike! He would need be in better shape than he leads on.


          • Sombrero could mean he is just from
            New Mexico 🙂 and I didn’t see fly taos mindy did everyone can study that good map there self 🙂

        • Pandora, that’s a little harsh. If you believe it’s the blaze why would you search there?

          • Because the blaze is a clue, not the end. Using your logic, why not search HOB or water high. If I’m giving you directions to my house and I tell you turn right at the McDonald’s would you think I live at McDonald’s?

    • Pandora, you should read the mysterious writings today at Jennys site. Looks like the blaze is the end. Now we know.

        • Well, there’s this one from her site:

          “Mr. Fenn,

          Which direction does the Blaze face? North, South, East or West? Curious. Foxy

          I didn’t take a radial off of the blaze Foxy. I’m thinking it may not be any of those directions. f”

          Personally, I’m leaning heavily towards the blaze actually being the chest. Has Forrest ever said the blaze is Not the treasure chest?

          • If your theory is correct — that the blaze is the TC — why would FF say the blaze doesn’t matter?

            Q: What is the distance (X) between the chest (C) and the blaze (B)

            C – B = X


            If you don’t know B => it doesn’t matter

            If you know B & C => you can solve for X

          • What do you think he means by the answer being obvious if you know where the blaze is? To me, it means either it is the chest, the blaze is within very close proximity to the chest, or…. the blaze actually states exactly where the chest is or at least gives directions to the chest’s resting place. IMO, the 1st 2 options are more probable.

          • I’ll give you a hint though, you only see 1 and 2 walking down the street and you don’t need a map to figure out 14 and 17.

          • Which side do you drive on and how high to you chip a wedge? I can’t even afford a nine iron.

          • I’ll tell you what I can see though, nine turkey chicks and a turkey out back yesterday and a tree frog on the storm window two nights before. I looked and then I closed the window, opened it back fifteen, twenty minutes later it was gone.

          • If you know point p and [REDACTED] nd then you can solve for b and nd to sigma x c.

          • But it looks like it’s somewhere between 14 and 17 Churchill Place in London.

          • diggings- I agree with you – if you take the chest and go in peace- that is the end there is nothing else beyond that .

      • Formalhault is the first visible planet beyond our solar system to have ever been seen with the human eye. It appears to be the mouth of a fish, and has a distinction of being referred to as the “first frog.” It shines all night long during the Autumn months.

        September is a fascinating time when I especially think of The Flyer when viewing this lone….celestial treasure. If you would like to learn more about it, here’s a link:


  35. I have to agree with Chris on this one.
    IMO, I think the blaze is a thing, once found will let you know your in the right place.

  36. Bump, bump…..bump.

    Stars… Space…. Universe….

    The Flyer would surely have been worthy of being a main player in NASA.


  37. Hmmm, So was the binoculars guy wasn’t even watching? Or was he close enough, that he only used the binoculars to hide the booze?

  38. 231 degrees azimuth. Use your head Orion.

    It’s a cosmic joke, you get it?

  39. Ah the memories. Once upon a time upon the deep blue sea there was a fishing boat with the name “Dancing Sky”. It was in reference to the continuous dancing of the northern night sky, aurora Polaris, the northern lights. Those memories are fleeting indeed, however, I do remember a beauty by the name of Cassie. She could dance around a pole like none other I have ever seen. Many a night, when the navigators gauge struck midnight, I would spin around and try and catch her off balance, always to no avail. What a beautiful blaze she was though, reminescent of something one might find on a mysterousily written blog, never lost her composure even while I was clumsily spilling my philter.

  40. I checked Google Earth for Glen, MT. And SURPRISE !
    To the northeast of Glen is a HUGE heart shaped shadow..
    At the dip in the heart is McCartney mountain, and near the bottom of the heart is Bell Peak.
    Other nearby place names are Big Hole Dinwoody train wreck (in the wood?)
    and Hogback. Have a look.

  41. Heart – TTOTC is a love story in such a gentle and beautiful way ♥♥


    Thank you, Michael.


  42. It was a silver steed, bright and winged, she saw from her stone. Ride with me he said. We will swing round the pole and face the dragon – that old one-eyed cat who guards the evening star. We will build a great ship by the Tartessos’ silver waters. The Phoenician’s fare is one golden apple. Now home, new, again in your chamber, together we view Kochab.

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