Advancing the Chase…

by Jeremy P


Advancing the Chase

It’s possible that me, my dad, and two brothers were the “first four clues, but I am not certain” folks. I’m not going to try and convince you by pointing out all the subtle Easter eggs such as I wish he hid it in the Appalachians, and that Forrest Fenn wishes he had another treasure to hide there (5Q). There’s a bunch of these and they are fun to discover.

I point to that one because it’s true. People who live in the Rockies have an advantage over those of us who don’t. I really would be out there looking every weekend if I could. Instead, I have to meddle from afar.

There are parts of the Chase that are very serious, in themes of Forrest’s life and the extremes that some searchers have gone in risking personal and financial well-being. I’m not that guy. To me, it’s the Great Game, an adventure. I had thrills to last a lifetime off a single trip (I took two) so if it isn’t me that picks up the treasure chest, I’m OK with that. I feel that I have played the game as best as I could despite not being able to close it out. Some other me with more money and time could. I’m retiring, but I would like to see if I could advance the Chase as I do. I’ve said before, “It’s fortune and glory, kid. You keep the fortune, let me share the glory.” If anything here helps, please give me a nod.

Here’s are the facts. Going into 2015, Forrest stated that no one to his knowledge had solved past the first two clues. By the end of 2015, some may have solved the first four clues. I searched in 2015, so I’m in play. The advantage I have over others in considering “what if it was me?” is that I only searched one area. When I got back from my trip, I knew that if he continued saying only two clues, I was out. You need at least three to get there. He said four, maybe. I suspect why he said he was uncertain. I’m not going to share that.

I don’t know what I know, but here are the things I suspect:

Fundamental: The nine sentences are the nine clues

I’ve tried to explain this. Some get it, some don’t. I think it’s axiomatic. Whether you agree with me or not, seriously consider it. If you ignore everything else I say, keep this one. Further, consider that the first sentence (Stanza 1) describes where you are going. As Forrest has said, “If you don’t know where you are going, any trail will take you there.” The first sentence describes the location from the Weekly Words that “is huge”. Your journey to the destination that “is small” begins with sentence two. From this point of view, the first four clues are:

As I have gone alone in there
And with my treasures bold,
I can keep my secret where,
And hint of riches new and old.

Begin it where warm waters halt
And take it in the canyon down,
Not far, but too far to walk.
Put in below the home of Brown.

From there it’s no place for the meek,
The end is ever drawing nigh;
There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
Just heavy loads and water high.

This point of view suggests other things, such as you simply can not solve more than five without actually having the chest in hand and leaving in peace. Additionally, the third sentence is the third clue that The Little Girl From India (5Q) can’t get past. She wouldn’t be able to work out “Put in below the home of Brown”. I’m not going to tell you why that is. Figure it out. It’s clever.

Agua Fria, seriously

I talk a lot about analyzing things, applying logic, etc. but I’m a fraud. Since I’m retiring, I’m going to throw out a confession. When searching for Forrest Fenn’s treasure, I was chasing poetry. I am far more interested in art and poetry than I am in logic.

So while I may have looked up Santa Fe in Google Earth, saw that there was an Agua Fria there, did my research and found out there there were 32 “Agua Fria” entries in the GNIS for New Mexico, half of them being geological place names or locations, and saw that most of them were north of Santa Fe in areas of Colfax County, and related this to his comment that “There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe,” none of that is why I started there. Even while I vetted the idea that Spanish might matter, because of this class in the book that spanned several chapters, none of that is why I started there. Even though the crossroads is right there between a small airport, and his Vietnam War Memorial, and you absolutely should start there, I didn’t choose it for that either.

I chase poetry, period. When I decided where I would begin “it” (my journey), it was this excerpt from the book:

“When his home mortgage was finally paid, he and my mother went out in the back yard and ceremonially burned the papers. They said it was a religious experience.” p. 119

Father on the Banco. “I always listened closely when he talked and told me things. Sometimes he would ask me a really important question that I didn’t know how to answer and make it seem alright.” Really important questions, such as “where to begin?”

It is completely a logical fallacy to cherry pick in this way. But when you’re standing at the crossroads there in Agua Fria, in Angel Fire, and the only thing nearby is a real estate agency, you can’t help but think: What a clever way to describe this place. Not only is it poetic, it’s completely accurate. It’s a three-point match to a place that is otherwise non-descriptive. If you don’t see it, you’re not thinking like a poet. I think this is his “tell”. He can’t help but be completely accurate.

I’m not going to tell you how this relates to the HOD what ifs comment and why I think it’s confirmed. You’re going to have to use your imagination and connect those dots yourself. Since I am retiring, and attempting to advance the Chase, all I am going to say is that it is directly related.

I will suggest that you might not be considering Agua Fria because you’ve been in it too long. You find it cliche. Everyone, everywhere already considered it. Yes, and they didn’t know the significance of why they should have.

You can connect the remaining dots through the first four clues. I will say that Colin Neblett is your area that “is huge”. If you’re not seriously considering this, I’d suggest you’ve been in the Chase too long.

New Mexico’s G.A.I.N. Program

LitterateOne made a great comment and it didn’t appear to generate much thought. First, he points out that Forrest said, “Our great mountains, forests, and deserts are not to be worshipped. Strange when Forrest himself says that his Church is in the mountains and along the river bottoms.” This is true, but that part is easy. Sangre de Cristo. Blood of Christ. The river waters are the blood of the mountains. The other part, what Forrest also said, that’s really something to consider:

I want to use my public property, and if you don’t mind I prefer to do it without a game warden, yahoo environmentalist, or forest ranger watching from behind a tree. It is bad enough that they lock the gates and put signs everywhere reminding me of all the things I’m not allowed to do on my property.

Something else occurred in New Mexico around the time that Forrest hid his treasure chest. Look into when the Gaining Access Into Nature Program went into effect. Here is the sign that went up and the gates that were locked.


Gain access? Imagine Forrest’s reaction to that and you have a plausible answer to sentences six and seven, or at least a correlation to the timeline that prompted him to act at the time he did.

They told him he couldn’t. They told the Maverick he couldn’t!

Is this the solution to those sentences? I don’t know. Maybe, at least in part, the solution to Forrest Fenn’s poem is that Forrest does what Forrest wants to. He’s been fighting these sort of things all of his advanced life. He’s done it tired, and now he’s weak. He does what he wants to on his property, the sign be damned. Follow the timeline, the creek, the trail, Touch-Me-Not. You have a fantastic story that covers the entire poem, not just the bits.

What if no one discovers my art?

This one is fun. When the “what ifs” went up, people considered a lot of what ifs, but no one publicly mentioned the only “what if” in the book (maybe there are others that I missed, but this one stands out).

“And what if no one discovers my art?” p. 139.

In context he is talking about his bells and jars that he’s also hidden, but what if? Others have noted that the credits say “Drawings by Allen Polt unless otherwise noted”. The only one that clearly has a notation is on p. 99. The infamous “map” illustration. Forrest has later stated that “Life should be an illustrated search for hidden treasures, and not just a guided tour.”

There’s a few things that others haven’t publicly mentioned, so here is my guided tour. I sent this graphic to Forrest some time ago:


It’s kind of a jocular interpretation of the “map” on page 99.

These things are like Rorschach inkblots and people see what they want to see. I’m not going to connect all the dots for you, but here is what I see:

Consider that the lines on the plane aren’t camouflage but are instead the features directly above Santa Fe (roads or rivers) with the cross point being Espanola. Consider that the little square box on the side of the plane, where you might expect Moreno Valley to be, is the little square chest you are looking for. Consider that the fox hole in the illustration is really Eagle Nest Lake, looking West, like in my graphic above, and that the ladders Cynthia mentioned are really trails leading up into Colin Neblett. Follow it, and when in doubt, turn left.

Consider that the “JF” isn’t just an autograph. Consider that to be a marker to at least orientate you, if not “the blaze” from the poem itself.

No one ever promised clue longevity

I’m not going to call this a fundamental because I don’t know for certain. I suspect that Forrest’s intention was that the chest may survive the test of time (not be found) but he wasn’t as concerned about the clues lasting forever. Truth is, when problem solving, you hold some ideas fixed and you vary others. I vary clue longevity. I could point back to the mere fact that a real estate agency lives at the crossroads of Agua Fria as evidence of expiring clues, but that would be a circular argument, and I’m the only one who believes that is confirmed. I don’t really care at this point. You don’t have to believe me. I will say, you may want to consider that the chest is a lot like the bells and jars. It is a time capsule meant to survive the test of time. If you don’t find it in the next couple of decades, Forrest has already had his fun and he’s not planning to be around to help you out. I’ll leave it at that and say, consider tree blazes.

There are a number of tree blazes in particular you should consider. I’m not going to share the photos, or point to where they are. One in particular is a “JF” exactly where you’d expect it to be. It may or may not (hard to read) say “HALT” beneath it.

Something hidden. Go and find it.

So why is it that I must go?

I don’t have to, but I think I’ve gone about as far as I can go, personally, living thousands of miles away. If I lived there, I’d be out every weekend. It’s boots on the ground from this point, and I can’t afford repeated trips to work the area as it should be (though I tried as best I could).

I’ve had thrills to last a lifetime. The money would be nice, but I don’t need it. I feel I’m clever and bold enough to make my own fortune to hide out here in the Appalachians. I’m young enough to make it happen and I’m inspired by Forrest’s story to take that on.

I thought hard about partnering up. Giving information to a particular person who I felt was deserving, etc, etc. Ultimately, though, I don’t know what, if anything, I may have gotten right. I don’t want to lead random, individual people astray or mislead anyone at all. In hindsight I’ve gotten some things clearly wrong over my own journey.

So, my solution to The Final Problem (Sherlock reference) is to throw it all off a waterfall and see what bubbles up. If I am able to advance the Chase at all, I would feel personally rewarded in doing so. It’s fortune and glory, kid.

For you conspiracy nuts: I do not have the chest. All is in my humble opinion.

Jeremy P

228 thoughts on “Advancing the Chase…

    • If you want to know why Forrest would hide another chest in the Appalachians ask Suzanne Somers . She skis there and had an ornate yellow chalet blazing on the hillside . Just saying !

        • Ya-Sha-Wa,
          Maybe f did hide something in the Appalachians…. hmmmmm, he did say he wished he could. Well he could. imo

          • Why I asked was that I heard a weather forecast and I realized how early in the year you must have gone. Most likely snow above the blaze about now? Hmmmm snow/water that halts above a blaze, nah.

          • No significant snow in the areas I was at. Some of the surrounding mountains had snow on their shaded sides. The peaks of many of them, of course, still had snow. I’m not sure if they’ve had any snow in the last few days. I use the NOAA map and it doesn’t look like it. Hope this helps.

        • Hi Jeremy P.
          After reading your post, I’m not sure you advanced the chase at all. Although you commented about pg 99, you failed to find the other 2 pieces of the map.
          Just like the movie you referenced.
          If you’re still lurking about maybe you would like to discuss.
          all IMO.

          • Clearly 🙂 But in my defense, I was never very good with riddles. I don’t get a chance to hop on here as much as I’d like to, so here’s my email address. Feel free to drop a line:

  1. I love this post, Jeremy. Intelligently written and thought out, yet with the humility of a true gentleman. Makes me think…:)

    Good luck on all your future endeavors. Hate to see your level head leave the chase….:(

  2. Jeremy P,

    Well written my friend, lets us know when you do put a trove in the Appalachians. I have always wanted an excuse to complete the second stage of the triple. I’ll come out and buy you a beer.

  3. Say it ain’t so! Jeremy, please reconsider…at least leave the door open for maybe one more look-see? Ya never know. I really connected with your right-brain thinking and have admired your ability to convey your thoughts and compassion, not just chase-related but with finding Randy, as well. You’re a searcher with very compelling ideas, and I’d hate to see you go. Wherever your trail leads, may the wind be at your back.

  4. Hello Jeremy P. Thank you for your well-written story and for sharing what you know. I’ve enjoyed reading your posts. You seem to be a truly kind gentleman and I’m going to miss your wit and sense of humor. Have a wonderful life, Jeremy. Best wishes in all that you do.

  5. Ummm…. Jeremy you are not allowed to retire… You are the official Artist In Residence here… AIR at HOD… Your call sign can be HAIRDO 😀

    JK… Great writeup and ideas thanks for sharing!

    • It makes a whole lot of sense if you think about it. I don’t want to spell it out completely because that takes all the fun out of it. I won’t share other people’s info either. But if you have any questions, feel free to ask.

      • Enjoyed your post. I was tempted to stop and see you and Ken on my way back from Alabama. Maybe next trip south.

  6. Well thought out Jeremy and well written. Hope you don’t leave us, we all enjoy your thoughts and art work!

    • Ha ha, I saw that one today!

      One could argue, if I waited until the year’s clues were finished, maybe I could figure out more of the solution.

      I have a habit when playing the board game Clue to guess the answer before it’s confirmed. Heuristics is my method.

      A wise man once told me that “Complacency is the misuse of imagination.” I like that one better.

  7. Oh and 1989. Everyone speculates when he got better and I couldn’t find reputable sources for that. Hemisphere Magazine makes it out to be around 1996, around the time he was hanging out with Ralph Lauren. It’s actually 1989 and this is spelled out in the book. Since the date is in dispute, might as well throw that out there too.

    “I recovered after having planned my future up to one detail short of the final bier… on my own terms as my father had done two years earlier… he’s buried alongside my mother in row 4 of block 23 at Hillcrest Cemetery”.

    You Google that, his father passed away in 1987. Add two years, 1989. It’s not just spelled out, attention is drawn to it. I was trying to vet a tree blaze that might have been significant and the year of getting better was important to it.

    One of the what ifs I considered is what if he actually went out into the woods to carry through with his plan, or nearly went, and changed his mind. That was one of the possibilities I considered on why the place was special. He decided not to, he lived and had a great life. So 1989 would be an important blaze symbol to mark that. The place would be special because that’s where he decided to live.

    I don’t know if any of that happened, but I considered it as a candidate for the thing that surprises him that no one considered. I didn’t share that. I didn’t know if it would be appropriate. I’m sure he’d forgive me for suggesting it.

  8. Jeremy, nice write up. I guess you got the HOD. I got two ‘what ifs’ from it. Did you get two? Some of your statements seem to be ‘new’ to me. Shows how difficult it is to keep up with all the information.

    • What I got from the HOD comment is that I, personally, got something right. If you live in the area, please follow up on what I’ve shared and let me know what it is.

      • Jeremy,are u really quiting,I have enjoyed your words,sometimes your funny,go get some popcorn.haha.things do get salty on this blog sometimes.I still don’t get the HOD.I just don’t think its home of dal.he lives on lummi island.not unless mr. forrest is talking about something shining.I’m in Colorado, and still sit at home trying to decipher this poem.I come up with a lot of stuff.but never know whats,what.all I know is the treasure is in the rocky mountains ,north of new new mexico,montana,wyoming,colorado.large area to cover.he says somewhere,well that’s anywhere.only forrest knows about.he ain’t telling.this hide and seek game is something else.what makes that place so special to forrest.we don’t know.I think its a place only him and his dad knew of.its been nice having you on the blog.good luck in all you do.remember what ever you do in life,pass it forward and make someones day special.thats what its all about.and tell them to also pass it forward.

        • Virginia Diane, I agree with your conclusion; and believe ff meant something other than the blog. How about the home off the “Dons?” Meaning property holders of Spanish land grants during the 1500’s in what is now New Mexico. Other than that, the most logical conclusion is the Hebrew alphabet.

  9. Well this is much to consider excellent truly excellent. I can’t help but think of another searcher describing being on the Cimarron by the 3 waterfalls and coming across other searchers that were literally rubbing the walls to find the hiding spot!

    I don’t put much value in Cimarron because someone early on identified Cimmaron as a mathematical solve. For me the only math involved is 44 pounds and twice in an afternoon.IMO

    JP – you gotta come back and name your home of brown. After my trip on memorial day I will be naming my HOB. Of course if your not really retiring you can certainly keep it to yourself. Also even if FF himself told us what HOB means or is it doesn’t necessarily follow that anyone should find the trove. I mean you still gots to find her right? I would name my HOB now but when I told a friend that I shared it with Dal he said Dal is probably heading there in his truck right now. Ha! Dal probably rolled his eyes at me. How many homes of Brown has the man endured over the years? but i digress

    What I love about your thought process is that you are thinking romantically poetically as you put it. Eagles nest is a good choice, not as special as Blue Lake, but not chopped liver either. Forrest is connected to the lands and to their people. To the winds and to their language. To the rivers and to their blood. Forrest has soared with the eagles and some day he will swim with the fishes.

    You no doubt find it difficult to get a way from aqua fria in the same way i find it difficult to get a way from Chama is Portuguese for blaze.

    My side solve that I will be exploring is an area that like Cimarron valley has bee visited extensively. Ponce De Leon hot springs. Why would I go there? Why would you go to CN? Well other people didn’t find it, right? Why didn’t they find it? Well maybe no one follows the clues once they are there. I figure out the poem identify the clues follow them down and up and down and bingo!

    You and I are also in the camp that believes nigh means left or left side or to the left right? For fun do this. Try to figure out how the directions read when they just said left. Imagine the process of going from left to nigh and what words may have been used in betweeen like port for example. Consider what words would then rhyme with left and port and still convey how the stream looks or acts. Do you see what I am saying?

    “Men in search of a myth will usually find one, if they work at it.”

    If you are reading this and you do not know where I came from. I am NTTC new to the chase! I am heading out to NM over Memorial Day weekend to trek my solve and also 2 side solves.I will be staying in Taos and enjoying my evenings by the fire. If anyone is in Taos that weekend I look forward to seeing you!

    • Eagle Nest Lake is the home of Brown. It is the anchor point of Moreno Valley around which the valley thrives. In the solution I shared, I said specifically “When you arrive in the valley in person, it’s very clear.” This, among other reasons that I won’t bother to get into, is why TLGFI can’t get past it. It requires boots on the ground and abstract thought. Or at least Forrest thinks so, in my opinion. There is no place name that calls it the home of Moreno Valley.

      • I should add, I believe that if you don’t call it like he calls it, it doesn’t count. That is why others who “Put in below” Eagle Nest Lake before me, without calling it the home of Moreno Valley, only solved the first two clues, in my opinion.

        • Great! I really love it. That is really fantastic that you name a place so people can discuss and explore. Why did he capitalize Brown? Any thoughts on that?

          What’s great about the chase is learning all this great stuff about the places that make up our history. The history of the peoples that have inhabited those places. The Indians the Spanish the Mexicans the Trust Lands the Land Grants the Ranches the Gold Rush the Reservations.

          Fire of the Gods Fire of the Angels the Angels of Christ Christ of the Dessert

          • Each place you name in your solve has a capital letter and is a proper name. Cimarron River Eagles Nest Angel Fire Agua Fria The Palisades Maverick Creek. Why is only the reference to Moreno Valley capitalized? I am asking if you have any thoughts on that.

            I take Brown to mean the exact opposite, a reference to something larger. I am more looking for a place like where Brown Eagles occur in abundance something FF might revere.

            I am not saying that your solve isn’t correct as I wouldn’t know. It just nags at me that only one place name is capitalized.

          • @lugnutz

            Some of the items in your list aren’t actually referenced by the poem. Some are referenced only metaphorically.

            “Brown” is the only literal reference to a place name.

          • For entertainment value, I will share that my first ‘line’ brings me close to your site; Soldier Creek in the Sangre de Cristo Mountains. No poetry yet but I now consider poetry more seriously.

            Life is too short, I hope there are Hangers in the Sky, so we could at least observe while life goes on below. I think there is an easter egg in there somewhere.

        • Here’s what Dal said after he went I there:
          Eagle Nest Lake is the home of Moreno Valley. When you enter the canyon, you drive beneath the dam that forms Eagle Nest Lake. Entering the canyon, you are “below the home of Brown”, Eagle Nest Lake

          • My fault JP that was your quote not Dal’s. Such a great solve and adventure, too far for me to walk though.

  10. Jeremy, I’ve been reading Dal’s blog for three years and this story got me so excited that someone else is looking in NM and using the “map” on pg 99. I only started using the map a few months ago, but can’t let it go. You know, “what if?” it is Fenn’s treasure map? Regardless, I also love the Agua Fria area, Vietnam War Memorial, Cimarron Canyon and trails and waterfalls from it, as well as going down Guadalupita Canyon on Rt434 from Agua Fria to Coyote Creek State Park. For the last year my “problem” has been that I not only live here but retired so have TIME, which is just as important as living here, or in any of the states where folks search. But I don’t have to solve the poem as exactly as the folks who have to fly here or drive long distances and then spend money on hotels, rental cars, etc. because their opportunities to go do a BOTG search is so limited. So my tendency is to fit part of the poem’s solutions here and there, and go search a particular area, until I feel like I searched adequately and Fenn’s loot is not there. Then I move on to my next location and do the same thing. Basically I’m using the “process of elimination” approach, and it is taking a long time. Soooooo, if you are interested in teaming up, or at least discussing the possibility using email, ask Dal to send you my email address and let’s discuss a partnership for your location, not the entire northern part of NM mind you, but just your place. cynthia

    • For what it’s worth, you were on my list of locals to share this with. I decided to go the other way and share with everyone, but go up there and look! 🙂

  11. Woah!

    Forrest has soared with the eagles and some day he will swim with the fishes.

    Forrest did you hear that, better watch out for this guy. haha just kidding Lugnutz.:)

    • I think an eternity of swimming in the cold water streams deep in the shadows of the New Mexico mountains sounds like heaven to a man who finds his religion along the bottom therein…

  12. Lugnutz, I liked your comment. You mentioned that one of your side solves takes you to Ponce de Leon Hot Springs. I walked back to the hot springs a couple years ago and met the Head Councilman of the Taos Pueblo by the name of Pat Romero. The Taos Pueblo owns the land the hot springs sits on but allows us non-natives to hike to the hot springs. He was such a nice guy and told me how to follow the trail from the parking area to get there. He was actually working on the gate where I’d parked and was going to do some forest maintenance later closer to the springs. Eventually he made his way there, and he told me stories about when he was a teenager and the “fun” they had there decades ago. I did not get in any of the springs that day but the water looked crystal clear and clean. There was a small octopus in the bottom of the larger pool. I have a picture of it…can’t post it here, though. Hope it’s still there the end of May for you to see. Let me know. Have a great trip and stay safe. cynthia

    • What the heck I will add some intrigue. Taos Pueblo owns PDL hot springs now. It was when they took ownership that the sign and gate were placed. Previous to that you could simply drive right down to the pools. That is what I have read while researching.

      My favorite thing I read about is that Taos Pueblo was able to make the purchase owing to an anonymous donation of 500k with the stipulation that PDL remain open to the public. I do not know that to be true, I do know I read that on ToTC, I do not recall who reported it. But hmmmmmmm it makes you wonder doesn’t it?

      • Purchase was made 1997 and in 2009 a conservation easement /perpetuity was sighed by Taos land trust and Santa Fe conservation trust.
        Indulgence was hidden either 2009/10 sometime. He won’t say when. Kind of makes you wonder. 🙂
        I too have dipped in PDL and used it as WWH.
        Cynthia are you sure it was an octopus you saw and not a googlie-eyed frog. 🙂
        I,ve only known octopus,s to be found ocean environments.

  13. Thanks Jeremy, great solve. I don’t see how anyone can BOG search and not be hooked for life! You’ll be back!

  14. Jeremy, I will miss your posts, I always looked forward to reading them. Best wishes to you in life. Thanks for sharing your thoughts about the search.

  15. Great use of imagination, Jeremy. You have made interesting observations that I doubt I would ever have considered. And I really like your magnanimous attitude.

    Agree with you about the distance. The chase really is easier, logistically, for people who live in the Rockies. But to FF’s credit, he rendered clues vaguely enough that locals would not have an unfair knowledge advantage.

    I may have a critique about your solution later, assuming I can find something to critique. 🙂


  16. You really have to admire someone like JP. I bet Forrest would be proud. I’m headed to an area you mentioned in June.

  17. Jeremy, I am far more interested in logic but I am chasing literature. I am bizarro you. (Seinfeld episode)
    You are a fraud and fooled me well!

    • It’s reasonable that the poem should have an artistic interpretation as a solution.

      • Artistic interpretation makes the field really big. artistic in a child’s view? As he said a child could find it. But FF did not draw in stick figures either.

        • Good question. When I say “artistic” people probably think I’m referring to the illustration. I think that (intentionally or not) is ambiguous and people see what they want to. Maybe a child might see some cool things in it.

          What I mean by artistic is the poem itself (right or wrong) does have a symbolic interpretation with a profound meaning. This is the interpretation I’m suggesting:

          Begin it at a place that represents him as an individual, a cross roads in a valley that symbolizes his days as a war hero, his passion for flying, fishing, everything that uniquely represents him as a person. Then take it into a canyon that has special meaning to him, to a place along a creek that bears HIS identity and symbolizes all that he stood for. The Maverick touches the big rock that says Do Not Touch. Then, they throw up a sign that says what he can and can’t do. They lock the gates. They say he needs a permit to access his land, symbolically himself. So he writes a poem and hides a treasure chest and says, “I am Forrest Fenn. I do what I want.”

          That, my friends, is art.

          • Although I agree with some of what you think, IMO the tc is hidden in a place that it is free to go search.

          • I vaguely remember FF making some kind of comment about it not being developed yet???.(I have a bad memory) Meaning no signs yet?. I have a place I have been thinking that fits what you said above till the sign.

          • For what it’s worth, I believe he hid the chest before the signs went up, possibly anticipating them going up, and that’s why the timeline is important.

          • Another funny thing: The photo above of the sign is from last year. When I went out there this week, it was actually knocked over. I fantasize that Forrest did that because he knew I was coming. I have a lot of imagination, but these are all things that make it brilliant.

      • I meant fraud with a smile on my face. When I just now read it, I see it might be taken otherwise.

        “Reason”able!? Here you go again, dang it. Which way did he go, which way did he go (cartoon).

        Sorry to see you go. I will be taking a break soon.

        Best to you and yours.

  18. Jeremy,
    You said your four clues are; stanzas 1 2 3 4, assuming sentences. Fenn stated, when an interviewer read stanza 2 that, there were 3 or 4, and the interviewer read the last two lines in stanza 3 and fenn said, sounds like a couple I count clues up to stanza 4 and two lines missing within stanza 3 to be 6 by fenns comment. While I agree that 9 sentence equal 9 clues… it seem fenn is saying six lines equal 6 clues, with two line not read. Should we add in those other lines; ‘from there it’s no place for the meek, the end is ever drawing nigh’ and say 2 more clues… that would be 8 clues in stanza 2 and 3.

    You see the dilemma here ~ right? of course I’m back to the ‘fenn calls everything a clue.’ So can you explain the difference? Thanks.

    • I wrote a lengthy reply, hit Post, and it didn’t save it. I was going to try and recreate it because it was really good, but then I remembered that I’m retired and I don’t have to! But seriously…

      Seeker, you’re a very smart person. You can work this out. The interview is just playful banter. People have been latching on to it for years for no reason at all.

      Compare it to the hard confirmation that the clues weren’t counted until after the poem had been finalized and you have all you need to resolve the paradox of a poem containing both nine sentences AND also nine clues. Again, when problem solving, you hold some things fixed and vary others. Hold fixed the idea that time travel isn’t possible, and vary things like playful banter in a radio interview.

      You can work this out, my friend 🙂

      • Also, I really do believe that if nothing else, this is something I got right. This is my contribution to advancing the Chase.

        I get that the predominant view is that you are supposed to go and figure out which phrases from the poem are the nine clues, but this is all a distraction. It’s the First Distraction.

        This is important stuff. That’s why I call it fundamental.

        I believe that you will never hear him say that “someone has solved the first six clues” without someone having the treasure chest.

        I mean, unless he just wants to mess with me individually because I’m a smug. 🙂 But just because I’m smug, doesn’t mean that I’m not right on this. It is an opinion, but it’s a very strong and well considered opinion.

        • Don’t retire yet my friend I have been on this for over 5 years your perspective is alot like mine we are on the right trail

        • “I mean, unless he just wants to mess with me individually because I’m a smug. :)”

          By saying individually are you indicating a private conversation/email or by a public comment such as weekly words or scrapbooks? Because I wonder how f would think you “a smug”. (adj. or noun?)

          • If there was a private conversation by email it was one-way. Like everyone else, Forrest has never replied to any email I sent containing solution information. I have no direct evidence he ever read any of those emails, which sucks, because some of them were really clever and I think he’d enjoy them.

            Example: “New Mexico appears to have a drinking problem judging from the rusted Coors cans we keep finding.”

        • I don’t know how to interpret the silence regarding poetry in solving the poem. Jeremy, You were so clear in what you shared, certainty in your solve. No detractors, many questions. You have been generous in responding to the folks interested.

          So, I don’t get the silence. I have been looking at poetry and possible connections and have only come up with Voltaire who even anagram his own name.

          Are the other folks dismissing the poetic possibilities or are they lurking hoping discussion wanes?

          You most likely are unable to answer this but others might chime in.

          • My personal reaction to Jeremy’s poetic solve to the poem was “yes! of course!!” and how eloquently he was able to convey his thought process. I have always believed the poem requires more than just a logical analysis and minute parsing. Maybe most searchers feel the same, in which case, most of us were all nodding our heads in agreement with Jeremy’s approach. As you said, no detractors (or very few).

            I’m hoping Jeremy gives his solve one more go.

          • Melanie,
            I too hope Jeremy gives it another shot. If I find myself with more than four clues I would like to give it to him to encourage him to give it another shot. All he wants is the glory but”your going to get killed chasing the glory! (He knows what I am talking about and this is not a threat)

          • “Maybe. But not today.” (is the rest of the quote)

            Sorry uken2it, I’m taking at least the summer off as I have some work to catch up on.

            All I meant with my comments on chasing poetry is that the author of the Chase is a poet. He left us clues in the form of a poem. He wrote prose that was poetic in the book. The solution to the poem, in my opinion, would likewise be poetic. It’s not just a map, it’s a message.

            The Clover’s simple Fame
            Remembered of the Cow —
            Is better than enameled Realms
            Of notability.
            Renown perceives itself
            And that degrades the Flower —
            The Daisy that has looked behind
            Has compromised its power.

            This poem by Dickinson is a good example of what I’m talking about.

            The part about the clover has a much more substantive meaning than just “the cow ate the clover”.

            The clover is “remembered of the cow” — the clover has become a part of it. The cow and clover can no longer be viewed as separate things. Thus, the clover’s simple fame is that it has become a part of something else, and it isn’t even aware of it.

            This is contrasted with the Daisy, the “day’s eye” which can look back and perceive it’s own renown. It’s the awareness of fame that degrades it. It’s self-conscious and self-degrading. We also see that it is impermanent. With “day’s eye” we’re told this is a temporary day’s fame, while the other is “remembered”.

            The poem is a statement, and it makes clear what we’re meant to prefer.

            Every poem has a message, but you wouldn’t think it in how a lot of people go about trying to solve Forrest Fenn’s. 🙂

  19. JP – I agree it’s rare to have the same rainbow as someone else, but seeing another rainbow doesn’t cost a thing. A friend would do it for free.

  20. Jeremy, i would hate to see you retire completely from the chase, I enjoy your intelligence and always like reading your comments.
    Forrest may give us a scrapbook that makes everything fit perfect for your solve.
    Wishing you the best in all you do. Every one will truly miss you..

  21. Awwww. I really enjoyed reading your post, Jeremy! Thank you for sharing. I think we all are better for reading your words. 🙂

  22. JP,
    I can relate.
    I’m pretty sure I will be retiring after my next trip.
    I would like to bow out gracefully & admit defeat as far as the treasure goes.
    There’s also the feeling of victory in visiting the Rockies for the first time.
    Been fun as you know & have gone places I would not normally go, making excuses not to go wasn’t an option.

    We have to thank Forrest for taking us on this great journey, but for every beginning there is an end & a new beginning.

    Just too many places north of Santa Fe where warm waters halt.

    I like your writing’s & artistic talent. Don’t retire from these things you love to do, that you do so well.

    Yes, someday, we will be right there, next to the little girl from India.

  23. I enjoyed reading your “thinking” Jeremy. There are probably herds of folks who like you, would have preferred that the chest to be hidden closer to their neck of the woods but I would encourage you and everyone else who loves “the chase” to look close to their homes for the treasures that await there. There are many “lost treasures” in Appalachia and elsewhere. I can’t get to my Fenn search area often myself so I satisfy my chasing habit by exploring close to home–and frankly, its just as much fun as looking for Fenns treasure. I’ve uncovered a lot of interesting information about a cache of gold left by a 1850’s miner and learned some fascinating information along the way about the gold rush. Forrest Fenn has also peaked my interest in native American artifacts and I’ve had great fun exploring areas nearby that I am convinced was the home of some of our early ancestors even though they are not plotted on someone’s map. I have to laugh when folks in Appalachia or the Midwest suggest that they are “far” from treasures. When I was a kid in Michigan, Indiana and Ohio, we would find arrowheads frequently even in heavily populated, urban areas. If you want gold or other treasures that will make you rich, there are plenty of those too–you just have to do the research to identify and put the BOG to possibly find them. Its fun!There are many lost caches of gold (some of them payrolls for confederate soldiers), confederate artifacts, etc. that may be closer than you realize–you just need to look for them.

    • Thanks Raven… maybe I should call my “retirement” a “sabbatical”. I bought a metal detector for the Chase, but I’m anxious to try it out locally. There’s a local bridge that is no longer there, just the old supports, and the way I figure it during the Civil War that was the only place to cross the river here. I’m going to go there and scan around this weekend.

      Maybe I’ll go knock out this Fandango thing no one can seem to figure out and use that to fund trips back to NM. Beale ciphers? Pfft. They ain’t got nuthin’ on Forrest Fenn’s puzzle. I’ll try that too. 🙂

  24. Trying to think what else you guys might need out there. One other possibility you should consider…

    In recent email to Forrest, while letting him know that we were planning a return trip and telling him how much fun we had on our trip a year ago, I wrote:

    “I tried to plan ahead and think of some side things we could do. One of these was to look at tree blazes. This is nature’s art gallery, and blazes are the street art of the woods. I didn’t accept tree blazes as the blaze from the poem back then, but that didn’t stop me from pointing them out on the trail.”

    This was just a few days before SB 152 where he stated, “Life should be an illustrated search for hidden treasures, and not just a guided tour.”

    It’s possible that the illustration on p. 99 has nothing to do with anything and you should instead be looking at nature’s art gallery. This didn’t occur to me until now.

    Something hidden. Go and find it.

    • Hey Jeremy,

      Let me say, I did enjoy your explanation of your thoughts… and as you explained in my last question to you… “The interview is just playful banter. People have been latching on to it for years for no reason at all.”
      Yep, I cant agree with you more. Hence my thoughts to 9 sentences [ poem as a whole ] vs 9 lines problem solving.

      This is just and observation on my part, so bare in mind it’s not about disputing any of your thoughts or comments. Fenn answers and makes statement on national TV, Mag, to reporters etc, and then creates SB’s for a blog… while the blog is considered another type of international venue, it still is a personal blog, and there are many of those just for the chase.

      Could it be said, that the Playful banter… is simply for the overwhelming interest to this story be the same? I have read, talked in PM, and in-person to searchers who seem to think that… they send fenn an e-mail, and shortly after… ALL those folks seem to have the same response, fenn may be hinting about something they wrote to him. Your post; “This was just a few days before SB 152 where he stated, “Life should be an illustrated search for hidden treasures, and not just a guided tour.”

      Isn’t it a bit of stretch for us to think… I sent an e-mail and fenn is hinting about my solve?
      I’m not categorizing anyone here, especially you. But after every SB, a couple dozen post go out on the blog[s] saying what you just said… and all have completely different solves, thoughts, theories, location, states etc. So you can see why it may be confusing for me when I read that.

      Do we dismiss the comments fenn will not aid ‘a’ searcher… do we think because he makes a SB about it [ an e-mail sent to him ]… it’s to even the playing field? by posting a clever SB to explain… hey bud you’re on the right track?
      And don’t get me wrong! the SB are very informative, interesting, helps promote the chase, and simply enjoyable, and may hold subtle hints… but to use this avenue to direct possibilities to a single searcher is a bit of a stretch… imo.

      Who knows, maybe fenn see’s someone is very close and/or solved the clues, and is leveling the playing field. I highly doubt that personally… but who knows.
      That should send the paranoid and obsessed over the cliff.

      Anyways… Best to you and yours.

      • No, I completely agree. People see what they want to see. I’ve been very careful about that. I also agree that Forrest will not help anyone. That said…

        Someone is partially right. Is it you? Is it me? Is it someone else? Someone is. We were all asked to consider if we were, each of us.

        I did just that. I don’t consider things lightly.

        My argument isn’t that he would aid a searcher. It’s that he would subtly confirm correct responses, in public, for evaluation by everyone.

        Did he confirm anything I suggested? I don’t know. I’m asking.

        • Actually, I can add to that:

          IF (strong if) he is hinting that something I said is correct, well, I can’t really do anything about that, can I? I can’t keep going out there and trying different things.

          Also IF he is hinting that anyone at all is correct on something, one might conclude that he himself wants to advance the Chase. I don’t know. He’s not exactly clear on his instructions on what we’re supposed to do with the things he says.

          Combined together, IF me and IF he wants to advance the Chase, all I can personally do is encourage all of you.

          That’s about it.

          • Thanks for the response… My intention here is to help myself see what I may not be seeing, or confirm my original thoughts… Use what we had from the start, so not to be confused.

            The point here is Why? Why after all the time spent planning the chase, details we don’t know about, how that was all done, what else was involved, 20 plus years in the making… Why point to us/anyone to anything? What could have [ for lack of a better term ] ‘Change’ his mind and point out to one or all something that would lead us closer or say you’re on the right path.

            I mean, I can go look for it, yet there was a statement that he would not give out information he received in e-mail / correspondence, if it was useful or helped. [ I’ll go look for it, I’m on a mission now.. lol ] maybe another has it at the ready… it would be very helpful if they could post it…. At least, if it’s just to keep my head on straight. But wouldn’t using SB’s to do just that make anyone ask why.

            Sure, sure, I know… fenn game his rules. But I would still wonder… what changed, if anything at all.

          • Seeker-
            Lots of folks believe there are no clues in the SBs. I’m one of them.
            I think they are just interesting stories about the man who hid the chest and the interesting people he’s met along the way.They are extensions of his memoirs. Which are themselves extensions of the writing he did for the Yellowstone paper and his squadron.That doesn’t mean I don’t think there is useful information in them. I think many of them contain insights into Forrest which will help me think more like him and help me understand the poem.

            Forrest likes to write.
            Forrest writes about his life.
            Perhaps it’s because he is leaving a record of himself for the part of his family he does not know. The grand children of the children of his great grand children. Don’t you wish you knew more about your ancestors? I know I do.

            He’s agreed to answer a few questions here and over at MW about the treasure but they are not clues..they don’t get us closer to the chest. In my opinion it’s all useful information about the man and about how to think about the poem more than about where the chest is located.

            If there are hidden clues about the chest in the SBs then no one will know what they are until the chest is found…that’s my opinion.

            I work with the poem and his two memoirs. I read what he writes for clues to the man…not the chest. I pay attention to the way he talks and his sense of humor. I look for that sense of humor in his poem and I separate that humor from the directions to the chest. I try to think logically about where a special place might be for a person with his interests.

            That’s all I use.

            And…I might’s gotten me no closer than anyone else’s ideas as far as I can tell. But I am enjoying the trek. I like the focus of hunting for his chest. It’s fun for me. I’m not an adrenaline junky. I am not in the least bit concerned that neither I nor anyone else has found it yet…and when it is found I will be disappointed. I am in no way eager for the chase to end.

          • “I mean, I can go look for it, yet there was a statement that he would not give out information he received in e-mail / correspondence, if it was useful or helped.”

            We know that some searchers have been within 200 ft. We know that the first two clues were solved a few years back. We know that in 2015 some may have solved the first four.

            If your statement were true, we wouldn’t know any of that. There’s 52 Weekly Words of hints. You could argue that none of these are helpful, but I would argue back that the at least two, maybe four clues shows progress and that we shouldn’t consider the Chase to be some stagnant thing that started in 2010 and never evolved.

            Why wouldn’t he whisper that some ideas may be correct?

          • Jeremy you asked: “Why wouldn’t he whisper that some ideas may be correct?”

            Well, the main reason is because he has said over and over he will not do that. Just one example:

            When he did think he gave out inside information he leveled the playing field by telling all of us WWWH is not a dam.

            I am surprised at how many people think he’s giving them inside information thru email or Scrap Books or anything else. And I’m surprised at how many people think it’s OK to get information from Fenn about their solutions; I suppose it’s OK to cheat because they consider themselves to be special.

            Just my opinion.

          • I would also add, and maybe he didn’t realize this, but two clues at the start of 2015 and four at the end of 2015 *is* objectively helpful, to every single person who searched in 2015, not just me.

            Everyone who searched in 2015 should be revisiting their solution and considering, “what if I am right?”

            Someone made progress.

            I’m just in the fortunate position of having only searched one place, and in the unfortunate position of that place being so far away.

            Go look.

          • @Goofy:

            Not cheat, not insider info, just publicly shared but useful info. Number 5 here actually says “privately” so why not publicly?


            The argument I’m hearing is that no public information would be helpful to a searcher either. I don’t see how that’s said explicitly, or implied either.

            I would argue, of course there is publicly helpful information out there that aids searchers.

            Let’s say you were right about something you said. Let’s say he wanted to draw attention to your statements. Let’s say he posted hints about things you’ve said. Is that for you alone, or for everyone? Is that directed solely to you, or are they hints to everyone that maybe they should pay attention to you?

            I hope you guys don’t think that I am saying that I am special. What I’m saying is that maybe you should consider that something I said may have been spot on. And of course, maybe none of it is. Just consider the what ifs. That’s all.

            Forrest is a man of integrity, in my opinion. He wouldn’t cheat and neither would I. There’s no fun in that. If he were to draw attention to something I said by hinting that you or I should consider it, that’s completely in the realm of fair game and above board sportsmanship.

            All in my considered opinion.

          • Occasionally I forward parts of emails to Dal for use in his blog to
            add human interest for others who are in the search, ***but I never would if
            it made a difference or in any way might point someone toward or away from
            the treasure.*** Dal is also a searcher. ***I am determined to stay aloof of
            providing any additional clues that are useful.*** Everyone has the same
            information to work with. Some few have stopped within several hundred feet
            of the correct location, and then passed it by. I said in my book that
            the solution will be difficult but not impossible. If it was easy anyone
            could do it. Whoever finds the treasure will mostly earn it with
            their imagination. I have done only a few things in my life that were truly
            planned. Hiding the treasure chest is one of them. And at the end, the one
            who finds the gold will not feel lucky, but instead, will ask himself,
            ”what took me so long?”


            This was the quote I mentioned early. Goofy added another as well. I do believe there are others… but is it really needed.

          • Seeker, when Forrest says “Have you considered the ‘what ifs’?” Is that not meant to be helpful?

            When he says that no one has considered a particular what if, doesn’t that mean that the what ifs they actually have considered are wrong?

            All the people who said they solved eight clues in 2014, when he says they’ve only gotten two clues right, isn’t he confirming that they were wrong on the others? Isn’t that also helpful?

            If going into 2015 he says that only two clues were solved, and coming out of 2015 maybe four clues were solved, isn’t that helpful to all those who searched in 2015?

            I completely agree. If someone got something right, he’s not going to come right out and say it. He’s not going to tell them. He’s not going to any of us directly. But what’s so weird about hinting at it in plain view in front of everyone through playful hints? This is a treasure hunt. Wouldn’t that sort of playfulness be compatible with his statements?

            To my knowledge he has never said anyone is correct on anything, directly, to me or otherwise. And yet, if that sort of information was out there in plain view in the form of a side puzzle, that sounds like Forrest to me. That sounds completely in line with what he’s said, and it sounds completely fair.

            For all I know, he’s hinting that you were right. I merely happen to think he’s hinting that I got something right. Truth is, he’s heavily hinting that someone’s right.

            Hints are just fine. If you aren’t paying attention, you’re going to miss them. They aren’t useful unless you already know the answer. If you already know the answer, it’s not helping. If you’re wrong, it’s not helping. If it’s out there in front of everyone, it’s not helping anyone in particular. That’s my take on it. I don’t even know if there are hints, that’s just what I see.

            It’s a treasure hunt. We’re supposed to solve puzzles like this.

            Also, don’t forget, my solution is that Forrest does whatever Forrest wants to do. I don’t really care what he does. In my opinion, he’s free to do whatever he’d like. I chose to play or not. That’s my decision. His are his own.

            I don’t have the chest, so clearly I’m wrong on some things. Maybe this is one of those.

          • The game hide and seek comes to mind. And when playing the hider would say cold, warm, hot or degrees of. So when ff says your effort will be with the cold , do you think he is saying even if your effort is far from the hidden treasure it is worth it?

          • Jeremy, you said;
            Hints are just fine. If you aren’t paying attention, you’re going to miss them. They aren’t useful unless you already know the answer. If you already know the answer, it’s not helping. If you’re wrong, it’s not helping. If it’s out there in front of everyone, it’s not helping anyone in particular. That’s my take on it. I don’t even know if there are hints, that’s just what I see.
            Also, don’t forget, my solution is that Forrest does whatever Forrest wants to do. I don’t really care what he does. In my opinion, he’s free to do whatever he’d like. I chose to play or not. That’s my decision. His are his own.

            I think that sums it up well… we see the after the facts the way we ‘want’ or even hope… we all do it. We twist, bend, conclude, and come up with a solve we feel is accurate. And while you and I can disagree.. it’s always good for a friendly debate to keep our minds a bit sharper or duller, depending on one’s opinions.

            I did enjoy your thread… and the debating, and appreciate your thoughts on your line of thinking… that is always the fun part for me… to argue points we believe in and not fight about them.

            Even though you’re retiring from searching… don’t wonder too far, I like a good ‘banter’ now and then.


        • Everything changes, you have changed, I have changed, everyone has changed & yes Forrest has changed.

          I think he wants the treasure to be found before the big change. You know, when you cash your change out.

          His statements are meant for all but we think they may be for us personally & we interpret them for our own liking. It’s human nature to think this way. That’s how most of us are wired & I think he knows this.

          As far as statements about searchers being close or went by, or whatever, I would bet these searchers have their information on the internet where all can see, not just Forrest, otherwise he would not have made such statements.

          That’s my change in the form of my 2 cents.

          • Jake Faulker,

            IMO – I agree that perhaps Forrest now wishes his indulgence to be found before he can no longer be asked about it.

            ~ Wisconsin Mike

          • WM,
            I am not sure, as the questions will not stop after it is found. Besides, I think he is enjoying this very much & his intentions have been successful beyond his vision.

            There may be a double meaning in “Advancing the chase”.
            Helping people out with the the solve is one.
            Also, bowing out gracefully & moving on with life, IMO.

    • A guided tour through life is memorize and regurgitate like many do in school? Its much more fun to listen and then go try and experiment for yourself like ff did with the bronze screw tops . test the unknown. Find out for yourself.

  25. Jeremy P., Thanks for posting all this great information. I hope you are coming to the Fennboree. Jeremy, pleeeeeeeease come to the Fennboree.

  26. Another one of the “good guys” retiring from the Chase. Sad to see you go, Jeremy. You are a gentleman and a scholar.

  27. Thanks for sharing parts of your solve Jeremy. Your confidence seems to be there but I suspect that not finding the treasure has taken a bit of the wind from your sails. I still am fascinated how there are so many completely different solves and all seem to be equally confident. I too live on the east coast, but I will remain in this until I cannot physically make the trip. I no longer feel anxious and do not feel rushed.
    I have a new found desire to discover more every trip I make. Each trip keeps me humble and eager…with that in mind, every little thing becomes that more interesting to me.
    Good luck in life and hope you get back in the Chase…

  28. Jeremy,
    I guess that there is only one way to prove anything as to the location of the chest. But, in my honest opinion, you are painting the edges of the plate with good stuff that you don’t even know you have.

    “Something out there. Go and find it.”


    • Thanks DZ, I agree. There’s something there. I don’t know exactly what. I can lay out all my suspicions, but if others don’t arrive at them themselves what good would that do?

      • Jeremy,
        Edit: “Something hidden. Go and find it.”

        Nearly sacrilege on my part. Sorry.

  29. Hey JP, lots of info and research. All good other than the ‘real estate office’, unless it was a Cold-well Bank-er… I understand the poetic side though.

    • I do think this is his “tell”. I’m no literary critic, but consider his writing style. There is an excessive amount of detail he includes in describing simple scenes. Not all of those things are likely to be clues.

      He can’t help but accurately describe things. If you consider the point of view that each sentence is a clue, and that the first sentence describes the larger area, things like “riches new and old” become curious. He can’t help himself but say “new and old” because he put both antique and modern items in there. He can’t simply say “old”. I feel he has difficulty with that.

      Whatever the correct answer, you have to consider the man and the poet together.

  30. @Jeremy? 1) approximately how long (time) of a drive would it be from downtown SF to your special place, the general area? 2) when you are searching do you ask yourself what was Forrest doing to discover the spot, as in was he just out clearing his head from the tour in Nam shortly after arriving in SF or was he hunting for artifacts, fishing, game hunting, etc? 3) Do you ever think about if he really did rent a car and where else it might be other than NM or CO? As much as I love the idea of NM as the spot he sure seems to dance around the question when asked if he rented a car (book store interview)….if so it only rules out NM IMO -thanks

    • I suspect he wouldn’t want you to know how he got there because he doesn’t want to narrow the search area. Hold some things fixed, vary others. Vary how he got there. He could have driven to the place I have in mind. Short hill, but decent incline. I covered it five times up and down just this past week. Arguable, but doable by an 80 year old taking breaks. Possibly driven up in a 4WD before they locked the gates. Horses OK. Vary all that. None of it matters. It’s metadata. Follow the poem. Only he knows how he got there. Speculate on why, but that would be sentences six and seven and you’re jumping ahead.

      Or, forget my location and apply the same principles to your own. Vary how he got there. Guess why he was there, but vary that as well. Follow the poem.

      All I can say is that the poem would take you to the place I picked out, accurately, and you have a great story for it that covers the whole poem and not just pieces of it.

  31. Jeremy – I have so enjoyed reading the write up of your latest adventure, and appreciate your generous efforts to advance the chase. I believe you have a solid approach and great instincts. I still find it “almost umbilical” that 2 searchers (actually 3 – shout out to your Dad) coincidentally met up in the same deserted canyon, in the same empty campground, in virtually the same spot, on a Sunday evening. Different agendas but very similar ideas and approach. Your “eureka moment” continues to percolate…like camp coffee. I don’t think your search is over, my friend.

  32. Oh, and I loved your collage and relating it to the “map” on page #99. Brilliant! Don’t forget about the other maps in the TTOTC…we searchers are the most incredible map nerds, aren’t we?

  33. Jeremy, your insights are very compelling (as usual). You seem so close. Don’t we all? I sincerely hope you’ve got at least one more try in you before you give up the ghost for good. But I get takes a toll..

    I do have a question for you tho: How do you reconcile Eagle Nest Lake, which was created by a man-made dam (vs. a “natural” dam like that created Quake Lake), with ff’s statement that a dam was not part of the clue set? Maybe I’m mis-para-phrasing that? I’m sure you’ve addressed this in your rationale, but could you please refresh it for me?

    Stumbled across this quote again: “The poem was written by an architect.” (FF video clip, i think from Moby Dickens?). This 3rd person invocation of a designer/builder is interesting. Maybe ff’s spirit animal is a beaver (HOB). IDK.

    Be well. ‘-)

    • I don’t have the quote, but I believe the prohibition against dams was related to WWWH.

      • Yep, you’re absolutely right. I mashed 2 things together, which shouldn’t have been.

        From the Cheat Sheet:
        ♦ Chest is not associated with a structure
        ♦ Where warm waters halt is not a dam.

  34. I agree that ff said a dam is not WWWH. He did not say a dam is not the home of Brown. But he did say no structures…is a dam a structure? I’ve often wondered about that. Just as I wondered if my La Caja Pueblo Ruins is considered a structure…I mean, it isn’t a structure now but it was 800 years ago. Hmmm…so much to ponder.

    • Great question as well. This one is easy because it’s on his resource page… “the treasure is not associated with any structure.” In my opinion, the treasure isn’t. Further, the location isn’t. You’re way far away from any of that. You’re in nature, completely.

      Even following the path you never actually come in the vicinity of the dam. You put in below it.

      Again, stressing accuracy here, you enter the canyon before you end up below the lake.

      In my opinion, his “tell” is accuracy. He said take it in the canyon down before putting in below the home of Brown because that’s literally how it is. You enter the canyon before you end up below the home of Brown. Where you encounter Cimarron River is below the dam, but not in any near vicinity of it.

      If he’s reading this, he’s probably laughing as I explain these things because he probably thinks I’m nuts too. The question is, does he think I’m nuts because he knows it’s far away? Or does he think I’m nuts because I’m giving the solution away? Or does he think I’m nuts because he never read any of my stuff and doesn’t think of me at all?

      The solution is 100% accurate to the poem, and in turn 100% accurate to the environment.

      • Also, technically speaking, my solution has nothing to do with the dam. It’s the lake. The mere fact that the dam is the device that allows you to beneath the lake without drowning doesn’t have anything to do with the solution.

        • I believe the poem starts at HoB and ends at a different HoB but coming full circle in a way of the Name and finishing where start like he said

  35. I have a theory on HoB and WWWH. I believe forest was being very literal when he said we are missing the big picture.. fist time post but I’m not headed out to search a spot so should I just throw up what I think?

  36. the river waters are not the blood of the mountains.the san de Christo mountains (blood of Christ).when the sun comes up very early in the morning ,it makes the san de Christo mountains look like a redish pink hue.I have pictures of both.thus that’s why the preist that was dying saw this ,and he called it the blood of christ

      • And I think that is what I think forest ment by missing the big picture. History can be poetry. It just depends on how the story is told.

  37. @Don, please do! Look up toward the right for Topic Heading: ‘Discuss the Chase’ Searchers Discussions, click and then scroll to HoB and/or WWWH separate topics…..fresh ideas welcome! IMO

  38. Ok so here it goes. I believe fenns work is the most bueutifly crafted way in retelling an old Pueblo Indian folk tale that in a way that was all but lost until Finns poem raised from ruins. Another dug up artifact.
    Here is the old Pueblo folk tale..
    The cyote and the bear
    Oncell upon a time Ko-id-deh (bear) and too-whay-deh ( the cyote) chanced to meet at a certain spot, and sat down to talk, after a while the bear said;
    Friend cyote do you see what good land this is here. What do you say we farm it together sharing our labor and the ceop.
    The cyote thought well of it and said so. So after talking they agreed to plant potatoes in partnership.
    Now said the bear I think of a good way to decide the crop. I will take all that grows below the ground. And you take all that grows above it. Then each can take his share and there will be no trouble to measure. The cyote agreed and when it came time to they plowed their place with a sharp stick and planted their potatoes. All sumer they worked together in the field hoeing down the fields with stone hoes and letting in water now and then from the irrigating ditch. When it came time the cyote went and cut off all the potato tops to the ground and carried them home and afterwards the bear scratched all the potatoes from the ground with his big claws then took them to his house. When the cyote saw this his eye opened and he said, but this is not fair you these round things that are good to eat but what I took home we can not eat at all. Neither my wife or I. But fried cyote, answered the bear gravely, did we not make an agreement, then we must stick to it like men. The cyote could not answer, he went home but he was not satisfied.
    As they met next spring the bear said, come friend cyote, I think we aught to plant this good land again and this time let us plant it in corn. But last year you were dissatisfied with your share so this year we will change. For you take what grows below the ground and I will only take what is above. This seemed very fair to the cyote and he agreed. They planted and tended the corn and when it came harvest time the bear gathered all the stocks and ears and carried them home. When the cyote came to dig his share he found nothing but roots like threads, which where good for nothing. He was very much dissatisfied and the bear reminded him of their agreement and he could say nothing. That winter the cyote was walking by the river he saw the bear sitting on the ice eating a fish. The cyote was very fond of fish and coming up here said, dear bear, where did you get such a fat fish. Oh I broke a hole in the ice and fished for them. There are many here. And he went back to eating without offering any to the cyote. Won’t you show me friend, fainting of hunger at the smell of the fish. Oh yes said the bear, I broke a hole in the ice with his paw. Now friend cyote ,sit down and let your tail hang in the water, and very soon you will feel a nibble but you must not pull it till I tell you. So the cyote sat down and soon ice began to format around it and he called, friend bear I feel a bite. Let me pull it out. No no not yet cried the bear. Wait til he gets a good hold, and then you won’t lose him. So the cyote waited and soon the hole was frozen solid and his tail was fast. The cyote pulled with all his might but could not lift his tail from the ice and there he was – a prisoner. While he pulled and howled the bear shouted with laughter and rolled on the ice and ha ha’d til his sides were sore. Then he took his fish and went home stopping every little while to laugh athe the cyote. There on the ice the cyote had to stay until a thaw liberated him. And when he got home he was wet and cold and half starved. And from that day to this and from that day to this he has never forgiven the bear and will not even speak to him when they meet. And the bear says politely good morning friend, too-whay-deh.

    As interesting as this is it isn’t alot of help if you don’t know where to start. I believe when fenn says start from the beginning he is not talking about a place in his poem per say. I truly thing when he says start at the beginning he is saying start at the story. Read my poem over and over and try and see the story I’m trying to tell you. Like an architect he crafted this story layer by layer to bring new life to an old art. The art of the story. For me the story started with me believing through things said that the key word fenn spoke of was courage. The courage to seek the answers. The courage to take chances. The courage to to believe that your spot was 100% accurate until you proved to your self otherwise. The courage it takes for some to get up every day. The courage to fight. Like fenn has. My study of the woRd courage and words like it as bravery led me to the deeper meeting and symbolism of the word and how for the pueblo that symbol was a spirit. Then I found the pueblo word kachina the force or spirit of life = courage. This made me really dig into the pueblo and I found out the pueblo were called the Brown Storytellers. I believe that the story is the entire concept of the search so It goes full circle with what begins with a story will end with a story. You start and end your same place. A story. This lead me to believe the home of brown was the home of the pueblo which is tee-wahn or now Isleta. From Isleta you take the canyon down to the rio grande and put in your starting point below the home of brown. Fenns poem and the pueblo tale are a beautiful painting of words that masterfully describe your trip from your put in at the Rio grande all the way up the river past the place where warm waters haults at bear Creek (see the story)(also I believe that start where warm waters hault is the place you start your seach on foot) and up past pole creek (without a paddle) and past quartzite creek (Spanish translates to hard, compact, granular rock = heavy loads) and up past deep creek (high water) to the head of the rio grande. Here the rio splits in stree separate directions and where I think the word nigh means the left. Take it to the peak of camby mountain. Camby translate to change and I find that fithing as the purpose of this was to change things. Change the way live. Change the way look at nature. Change the way we look at the story. I believe the blaze is either the beautiful change of the color of the mountain to a brilliant turquoise or there may a literal symbol for courage at the peak. I believe the chest will be in the area of the peak. Don’t know if I’m even close but it’s the solution with enough straightforward poetry and beauty to ease my soul. Hope you enjoyed. Happy searching.

    • Don … an interesting theory. The mountain I believe you refer to is “Canby Mountain”, not “Camby”. It’s located in San Juan County, Colorado.

      Unfortunately, the summit of Canby Mountain is almost 13.5K feet. And for quite some distance from the summit, the elevation is well above 10.2K feet.


    • Amazing we all come up with so many solutions and our government thinks they can make each and everyone of us happy! Solutions many time do not take into consideration the history behind the people.

  39. Jeremy … I really like your approach here. In response to another searcher, you said: “I decided to go the other way and share with everyone”. Thank you for your magnanimous attitude toward the group, vis-a-vis some private clique.

    Your puzzle solution, however, while interesting and clever, leaves me with some doubts.

    You were at least able to get past the Yellowstone hype. If ever there was a distraction to this chase, surely YNP is it. Congrats on that. And I like how you applied an artistic POV to your solution. I wish I had that talent. My approach has always been through the gates of logic, using as much “imagination” as I can invoke.

    I just have a few minor points about your solution that do not ring true to my interpretation of the puzzle. Of course I’m probably wrong, and maybe you just looked behind the wrong tree, so to speak 🙂

    I have scanned that area on a map several times, and I have always come away with the following observations …

    1. For the life of me I can’t fathom what FF would see in that area that would be “special” to him; that entire area strikes me as impersonal, relative to FF. Surely there are other areas throughout the Rockies that would have deep meaning to FF. Would he pick a place that seems, at least to me, as being impersonal?

    2. While that areas is publicly owned, it seems way too touristy for FF.

    3. Looking at how many trails there are (or old, ruddy 4wd roads that function as trails) I just can’t see FF finding much solitude in that area. I do like your interpretation of how FF might react to the sign display, however.

    Couple more points … there has been speculation on the page 99 sketch, forever. To me, that sketch, along with all the scrapbooks function as a distracting Rorschach test for the searcher who pauses to consider them; people see in them what they wanna see.

    Also, quite clever of you to perceive that the lake could function as HOB; but, as someone who has lived in Texas a long time, I can tell you that the archetype Texas redneck isn’t going to know how to speak Spanish, and further … has no desire to learn. 🙂

    Again, all this is just my perception. Your solution could be far closer to the TC than my solution.

    Ken 🙂

    • Thanks, Ken. I encourage you to skip the map and go out there and look. It really is quite beautiful.

      For the record, the illustration is a fun “what if”, but I chase poetry and the poem is what leads you here.

      • Jeremy,

        You are now pretty clear that it is all about poetry for you and your solve. Look at the poem, chas poetry. Yet we bantered about logic awhile back, a topic that suits me better than poetry. I was taken aback when you said (not precise quote) your mentioning an interest in logic was a ‘distraction’.

        Yet f did say that the person that finds it, is going to be a person who thinks and plans and has an analytical mind and uses logic, not someone who has a hunch.

        Sorry if I am off the mark but I think you can understand my curiosity. My curiosity goes beyond the above, and if accurate could be brought about for multiple reasons, none of which must be with ill intent. I can see reasons to misdirect the location of an actual search site, I suspect one search/author has already done just this. In my mind only. So with your apparent switch from a strong interest in Logic to a strong interest in poetry-You chase poetry, a very certain solve using poetry; well ya got me wondering.

        I also have a wild imagination and that might be all this is, but imagination is a requisite

        • Just for you uken2it… spend some time with those heuristics links I posted.

          You’re using logic, but it’s not perfect logic. It allows for guessing, shortcuts, trial and error, etc. It’s abductive reasoning.

          I’m interested in philosophy and logic, but this is a treasure hunt. Pure logic is only going to get you so far, in my opinion. Forrest said, “Don’t let logic distract you from the poem.” I follow instructions. I’m only bowing out because on the ground I ran out of instructions to follow and can’t make the repeated trips I feel might be needed.

          I will say, no misdirection on my part. This is actually the area I was searching earlier in the week. You could ask Forrest (good luck with that) but I also met a nice lady out on the trail and she can vouch for me. It’s the place that follows from the book and poem, and it’s the only place I’ve been.

          • Jeremy, maybe down the road I too would like to hide a treasure. Keep me in the loop if it might be possible that we might have an Appalachian/Sierra Nevada Chase.

  40. Going through my notes and deciding what else to dump…

    In a Huffington Post article, he stated:

    “Now, what if I wanted to secret a can of Dr. Pepper under a rock in the cooling waters of a rivulet somewhere in my allotted public acreage? If I did, I would not need to use all of my area, I would need just 7.5 fluid ounces and 90 calories of space. And I would still have about 2.08555 acres remaining. Seems fair to me but would I have broken the law? Yes or No? If yes, then let us change the law because who knows where that nonsense could end. If no, then why are we getting so excited about the little things?”

    My solution leads to a special creek that is symbolically related to his views on the use of public lands. Maybe this statement matters. I have considered “what if it’s under a rock in that creek?”

    I don’t know, but that doesn’t stop me from dropping hints of my own.

    In German, “Richard Brook” is Reichenbach. Throw it all off Reichenbach Falls and see what bubbles up.

    See, I’m playful too 🙂

    I’m totally going to do a treasure hunt some day.

    • I think I understand you better the more I read your posts. You can be playful, there are things about poetry that will help along the way but it does not mean you have to understand the poem as intended, you may not need to understand it, just know it. See what bubbles up… I hear f laughing now

      So it is chasing poems that led you there. Not that you need my affirmation but I am no longer ‘suspicious’, well I now gamy suspicions about me.

      In German, “Richard Brook” is Reichenbach. Throw it all off Reichenbach Falls and see what bubbles up. Ha!

  41. US 64

    Every stop along my solution occurs on US 64, especially the “too far to walk” part. If US 64 were correct, it should be hinted at in the book. Look in “The Long Ride Home” for those hints.

  42. “No place for the meek”

    The only public reference to Forrest actually using the word “meek”, outside of the poem, that I am aware of:

    “Well, (meekly) will you hold the painting for me until tomorrow when I can……?”

    The word is a part of Forrest’s vocabulary and thus less likely to be a biblical reference or whatever some of the other ideas suggest. Forrest uses it here to describe the man backing down, like the dictionary use of the term meek.

    Contrast that with “No Place for Biddies” (hint, hint) where the ladies are trying to tell him what he can and can not do.

    The Maverick does what he wants to do.

  43. Touch-Me-Not and Green Mountain. Both are hinted at in the book, in side by side chapters. They sandwich the creek valley.

    I didn’t make this connection myself, so I can’t claim it, but: “Don’t be impatient, the treasure chest isn’t” – WW Jan 22 may refer to “impatiens”, which are also called “touch-me-nots”, which may translate to “don’t be touch-me-not, the treasure chest isn’t.”

    Given a choice of expectations, for other reasons I would guess the Green Mountain side anyway, so maybe this is a hint. I don’t know. I don’t put a lot of stock in these things, but what if?

      • The color of Olga’s tea in heaven is green. It’s not all about the money. There are important themes of life and death wrapped up in the whole Chase.

        Olga passed away from cancer in 1979. His father passed away in 1987 from cancer. He’s diagnosed with cancer in 1988. He sees what is in store for him, and somehow miraculously lives through it. That weighs on a man. Ultimately it’s a positive and uplifting story, but it takes a toll.

        Gold is MacGuffin that gets you off your butt, but I don’t think it has anything to do with that, or any of the trivia people offer up as part of their solutions. Forrest Fenn isn’t a trivial man. In my opinion.

  44. I have a black list of reasons I may be wrong too, but what’s the fun in sharing that? 🙂

  45. Early versions of “My War For Me” had the height of the water fall as 200′. The book version of the water fall was dropped to 100′. Fixing faulty memory, or adjusting the height to better reflect the reality of a water fall mentioned in the poem? I don’t know, but what if? Douglas Scott sets the height as 30′ but that’s just the main drop. With boots on the ground, the entire thing is more or less 100′.

  46. It is a good thing the Maverick does what he wants to do. I wouldn’t think otherwise.

    Who would?


  47. I must admit, the title to this blog post immediately made me roll my eyes.I mean come on, you cant prove one iota that any of this info is even remotely correct for any kind of advancement.The title needs to be reworked.(Advancing the Conjecture) would seem a better fit.I think you’re a very smart guy, Jeremy, way smarter than me, but to suggest the scrapbooks hold hints,or Forrest making statements of secret confirmations through the press seems ridiculous.He’s said many times he’s not giving this thing away, which also leads me to believe the map on page 99 won’t help you get to the area. (Fluff from the jr.blogs).The chase is perfect in every way and doesn’t need any advancing.Goodluck on your retirement, and I look forward to one day coming to find your hidden treasure since you just told me exactly how you think. 😉 Salinger was a cool guy because he kept secrets hidden in his vault.

    • Sure, sure. But I ask… If you were retiring from the Chase even while thinking you might have something right, what would you title it?

      Be bold! 🙂

  48. I should really settle a misunderstanding, because I feel it is important. I’m getting a lot of “Scrapbook this” and “Scrapbook that” stuff. I’m not saying any of that. I aim for clarity, so…

    I did not read a single Scrapbook prior to coming up with a solution. Not a single one. Everything I came up with before setting boots on the ground in 2015 came from the book. I froze time at 2010 and said to myself that everything I needed to solve the poem would be in the book and in the poem.

    Everything about my solution is actually in the book and poem. Period. The actual confirmers are in the book. They are subtle, and easily missed, but I think they are there. That’s the data. That’s the Chase material.

    I do think there’s other information out there in the metadata, in the SB and Weekly Words, but those are all besides the point. And I really don’t think he’s giving anything away out there either. You’ve got to earn it. It’s a side puzzle. If you read between the lines in the other stuff, there’s stuff there. I’m not going to lie. It’s just as hard as anything else, but…

    Your actual puzzle is in the book.

  49. I can’t help but to relate to you stepping away from the chase and Mr. Fenn’s weekly words on Jenny’s website.
    They just seem…………. connected.

  50. This is all imo but I’d like to add my 2-cents and defend Jeremy and his solves. The first SB was written by Dal and posted Feb 6, 2013. It is of a picture of Lucca (f’s grand-daughter) holding a nice rainbow trout up to be photographed that she’d just caught while fishing with Forrest along the Pecos River (Is this a hint in itself?) There are only 11 comments on this Scrapbook…that’s how small the readership was three years ago. That’s about the time I entered the race.

    Yesterday I decided to read a different blog and go back to comments searchers wrote in 2011 and 2012…I was shocked and amazed to read their solutions to Fenn’s poem and the places they searched. Eagle Nest Lake and Cimarron Canyon and it’s side canyons and trails back to Maverick Falls and Clear Creek Falls were searched extensively back then because the clues fit the area so well. This was before Forrest began contributing much of anything, including Scrapbooks and Weekly Words on Jenny’s Site. I only read the comments about New Mexico on this other blog and it’s uncanny how most of my ideas for solves have already been figured out by searchers who went and searched BOTG back in 2011 and 2012. I’m sure the other 3 states have had as much activity as well.
    And this is only information that people posted…think about the hundreds of folks who searched for Fenn’s treasure BOTG in 2011 and 2012 and 2013 who never commented and only used the poem and TTOTC.

    So for those searchers who like to use the Scrapbooks and Jenny’s Words to verify their solves, I say go for it…I sure do every now and then, including the “treasure map” on page 99 of TTOTC. I guess my point is that it doesn’t matter because nothing any of us come up with now is NEW to a general search area. Someone has already thought of it and probably been there to search it. To find Fenn’s treasure chest, “you have to look AT it, not near it”, according to a quote from Forrest supposedly on this other blog. All this is IMO.

    • No new places, but maybe new interpretations on old places that also happen to be the correct to view them 😉

      Look, seriously, maybe it isn’t something I said. It’s something someone said. It’s something someone said in 2015. Maybe someone came up with some new interpretation of an old place in Yellowstone, I dunno.

      My money has been and would be on Agua Fria. It’s spelled out in the book. I’ve only hinted at how, you guys can sort it out. When I go back to work tomorrow, my time is going to be diverted towards other things.

  51. Jeremy thank you for all your comments. One of your thoughts has caused me to rethink my previous solves and that is “the chest is not associated with any structure.” Since reading your post I can see how a dam (structure) can be part of the chase flow-chart but not associated with the treasure chest. All my solves these past four years lie within Tierra Amarillo to the Red River drainage to the Pecos headwaters to Agua Caliente. Because of your reasoning reference “associated with”, I will rethink the Cimmaron. Thanks

  52. 6pm on Sunday on the East coast. Officially retired. Go get that treasure folks!

    (Disclaimer: If no one finds it this summer, I may try my luck again next year. But I really have to get back to the real world for a bit. Enjoy and be safe!)

  53. JP –

    I like the memorial. It’s the most poetic WWWH that I’ve got. I can’t get into Agua Fria or ‘cold water’… just doesn’t seem like WWWH to me? maybe I’m trying to think to hard? And your thing about the cross roads and the real estate agency is too vague for me… Cimmaron canyon does not seem like an obvious link from either WWWH (yours or mine) as it is several miles away. This is not to say that I haven’t been lured past Eagle’s Nest Lake into Cimmaron Canyon because of the “no place for the meek” line….but it felt kinda forced….and I don’t know where to go in there… And I live in Appalachia, too, and haven’t yet gotten my boots dirty in this chase so I’m deciding if this area is worth my short list. I’ve also toyed with and tossed aside the idea of 9 sentences = 9 clues. I think some of the FF comments made me discard it:

    “You told a reporter that there are three or four clues in the second stanza. Were you telling the truth? ~Alison R
    I don’t know what it is about girls but when I say something they automatically ask if I’m lying. Shame on you Allison R. I promise you that I get more things right than most reporters. If you were here I would make you take a dose of castor oil. Besides, if I lied to the reporter what makes you think I would tell you the truth?
    Sorry Alison, I’m off my soap box now. No, I was not lying but I don’t remember a reporter asking me such a question.f”

    “Nice thinking halo, I didn’t count the clues until the poem had been finalized. Although I changed it a few times over the months I think the number stayed about the same.f”

    These next comments have affected the ratings that I give my various solves:

    “When you hid your treasures, did you take the same path that is described in the poem, or were you able to skip some of the steps because of your familiarity with the area?
    Thank you Curtis
    The clues should be followed in order Curtis. There is no other way to my knowlege.f”

    “I cannot tell you how many searchers have identified the first clue correctly, but certainly more than several. I cannot imagine anyone finding the treasure without first identifying the starting point, although many seem to be preoccupied with later clues. To me that’s just expensive folly.”

    I could go on with the FF comments, but it’s time consuming and doesn’t help me… Enough of my thoughts.. I have a question for you and others who claim to be giving up the chase and offering a “hand out”. Why be vague and mysterious about your solve? There must be plenty of uncertainty left in it because if you had it nailed you wouldn’t be giving up. I’m not as convinced of your solve as you are, but I don’t know all the details. I would like to hear a good story! I like to read the stories that clearly describe the solve and boots on the ground experience, maybe a couple of photos. Why don’t you send us what you sent Forrest if you are truly retiring?

    • DWRock, please don’t take this the wrong way as it’s meant to be helpful:

      Did you seriously ask me to give you all my answers, even while dismissing a canyon because it’s too far to walk from where you begin it? You don’t need me. Just think about what you’re actually saying.

      • Well I’ve not considered the canyon being too far to walk from where warm waters halt because I follow Forrest’s advice to follow the clues sequentially. And I’m not begging for your solve: I just would be more entertained by an illustrated and comprehensive account of your attempt to find the treasure as others have submitted and have been published under “other’s adventures”… Since you’re “retiring” *wink, wink*.

        And please don’t take me the wrong way… I don’t mean to insult…
        I was really meaning to help or offer other perspective on your solve, as well as, help myself with somewhat focused debate if it is worth my limited time to trek into Cimmaron Canyon (which I had previously discarded). You seem quite confident… I, unfortunately, have little confidence in any of my many solves. All I can do is rate them against each other. It’s easy to apply the poem (or parts of the poem) to many places and tracts within the greater search area, but when filtering through the many comments Forrest has made it is also easy to identify conflicts and flaws in these solves. One of his messages that has knocked many of my potential solves down in the ratings is that one must accurately identify WWWH first before finding the blaze and the treasure; that there are no shortcuts; that there is no other way to his knowledge than sequentially following the clues to the treasure. I had looked at Eagle’s Nest Lake as Home of Brown and Cimmaron Canyon as no place for the meek before coming up with a WWWH to fit the solve…. they are easy to fit in a very literal way and if they are correct then why wouldn’t someone just start there? this is my problem with the solve.

        • “I just would be more entertained by an illustrated and comprehensive account of your attempt to find the treasure as others have submitted and have been published under ‘other’s adventures’… Since you’re ‘retiring’ *wink, wink*.”

          Thanks, DWRock. You’re right, I should have talked more about the adventure and not just the solution. Here are photos and a write up of the trip we took last year:

          We didn’t do anything touristy this time. It was a quick look-see. I don’t have any illustrations to share and the photos would short-change you of your own adventure. Regarding retiring, I really am otherwise occupied with real life work. I’m just replying to comments in this thread in a limited capacity. I don’t have the time to go back out there any time soon.

          “Well I’ve not considered the canyon being too far to walk from where warm waters halt because I follow Forrest’s advice to follow the clues sequentially.”

          It is sequential. The clues, viewed as sentences, group related items together (I know, not the predominant view). Most would have you “take it in the canyon down” and go “not far but too far to walk” in the canyon, because they view those as separate clues. Together, as one sentence, the clue is:

          “Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down, not far, but too far to walk.”

          Punctuation matters. The punctuation here can have you view it as a canyon that is not far, but too far to walk, from where you begin it. I think that is the correct view.

          I do agree that it could be read in at least two different ways, but the view I am suggesting is not a view arrived at by personal preference. It’s the view that matches the poem as a whole, sentence by sentence, and the subtle hints in the book. In my view, I didn’t pick that. Forrest did. Who am I to argue?

          I think this also relates to your other point, “why wouldn’t someone just start [at any other place than WWWH]?”

          My answer, simply, is that Forrest didn’t say to. My solution (ostensibly Forrest’s solution) isn’t DIY instructions for building a cabinet. The solution tells a layered story that mirrors themes in the book. You begin a Vietnam Veteran pilot’s journey at the cross roads between the airport and the memorial. Of course you would. You don’t start at the entrance to a state park. There’s no profundity in that. The underlying point in my solution is that Forrest has a story to tell you and the poem tells that story. You can skip ahead, but you’d be missing pieces of the story he is trying to share.

          In my opinon, if you don’t solve Forrest Fenn’s poem in the way that he wants you to, you’re not going to recognize the waypoints along the path for what they are anyway. That’s why people have only solved two instead of four even though they may have been standing in the exact same spot we did when we were out there. If you nail the first one, all the others are a matter of course.

          Just give it some thought. I’m not trying to convince anyone. I realize others aren’t seeing it, but I’m OK with that.

          • Jeremy – I believe you are absolutely correct when you state “Punctuation matters” – at least to ff. I mentioned on a past post here on HOD some time ago (can’t find it now), that before TTOTC ever came out and the Chase began, ff made a big deal of pointing out a punctuation mistake in a book to some friends of mine. Their recollection is that the offending punctuation involved the incorrect placement of a semicolon. I don’t know if the book in question was one he had written or not. But, obviously, that minor error stuck in his craw.

          • The semicolon is the giveaway on how we are supposed to read his poem, and why each sentence is a clue.

            All things related to the creek are included in a single sentence, using a semicolon to join the related items.

          • Hey JP,
            Thanks for sharing! Although, I don’t much like the photo of the bare earth amidst the grass where a 10 by 10 inch box may have been removed!
            I hear ya about the semi colon; and the 9 sentences is bold… but I’m not sure on the read of the 2nd sentence… Is there a grammatician in the house?!

            Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down, not far, but too far to walk.

            This sentence is the trickiest of the poem. The “it” is confusing. Assuming both “it”s are the same: the reader is the one to “begin it”, but does the reader “take it” or do the waters “take it”. Regardless of “it”, I cannot read this sentence in a way that makes the canyon too far to walk from where warm waters halt.

            I do like the idea of this sentence being one clue instead of three…. the clue would be a vector rather than a point… but as much as that would suit me it goes against the comment by Forrest that there exists 3 or 4 clues in the second stanza.

            I believe Forrest is and has been careful with his comments… I don’t think he has given any additional direct clues toward the chest, but he has generously offered many powerful indirect clues in his comments that serve to narrow the search.

          • The disturbed grass was at my dad’s location, closer to Santa Fe. The funny story about that is that when we arrived, he found that a construction crew had built a road right through the hill he thought the chest was on. When we found the disturbed grass, the joke was that the construction crew found the chest first. It was a good joke, because there was no other cause we could find. No turned over rocks, etc. And it was the exact 10″ x 10″ size. It made him feel better about not finding it.

            In my solution, “it” is your journey. It’s straightforward.

            Regarding the grammar, remember that it’s poetry. You can absolutely work out Agua Fria as the starting location, from the book. With that, the intention of sentence two can be worked out.

            Seeker brought up the statement about 3 or 4 clues in the second stanza (elsewhere on this page). I encouraged him to listen to the interview and compare the playful radio banter to the hard confirmation that the clues weren’t counted until after the poem had been finalized (MW 6/29/2014).

            Those who say there’s nine sentences and also nine clues buried in them, when the nine count wasn’t determined until after the poem had been finalized, have a lot to explain.

            They are essentially claiming retrocausality. They are stating that somehow the poem ended up with both nine sentences and also an *other* nine clues, while the poem was being written, even though the “nine” wasn’t observed by the author until after completion of the poem.

            This is a paradox. The solution is clear: the nine sentences are the nine clues.

            That’s why I say it’s axiomatic, and I really don’t get why others don’t get it. The only other explanation is time travel and that introduces way more problems than what I’m suggesting. There is absolutely no reason to latch on to 3-4/second stanza statement and ignore the other more important one, that the clues were only counted after it had been finalized, when it’s just two people in a playful radio interview.

            As I suggested, when problem solving, you hold some things fixed and vary others. Hold fixed the idea that time travel isn’t possible, and vary things like playful banter in a radio interview.

            Just assume that I have a well-thought out answer for all the questions you’ve asked, and even the ones you haven’t. I don’t consider things lightly. I dwell on them. It doesn’t make me right, but please just assume it’s been considered.

            But I’m not here to answer questions. I’m only encouraging you to ask them yourself! The leap of faith is Agua Fria. Everything else follows.

            We can sit around talking about it all day, or you can just go and look. The game is a-foot!

          • In hindsight, “Just assume that I have a well-thought out answer for all the questions you’ve asked, and even the ones you haven’t…” sounds a little off-putting. Sorry about that. I’ve just moved beyond broad scope questions as I consider them resolved and/or irrelevant.

            If/when I come out of retirement I wouldn’t be starting over. I’d be picking up where I left off because those questions were already thought through from all the angles.

            One of the angles is “what if I’m wrong?” That one’s easy. Someone made progress in 2015, so if it isn’t me there’s no sense in starting over as I’m already too far behind.

            If someone may have solved four clues, and we’re still talking about broad scope questions like how many clues are in Stanza Two, there’s little point in thinking it may be us that picks up the chest. This is especially true if each sentence is a clue (my argument) and the chest gets picked up in sentence five.

            That’s why I titled this “Advancing the Chase”. At this point, we should be beyond asking broad scope questions. They aren’t the interesting ones. The interesting question is why hasn’t it been found yet? That’s the question you, me, and everyone else should be asking.

          • Jeremy P –
            SO TRUE! As well as being beyond the broad scope questions, I believe it’s time to get past minutia that is tangential and diverts attention (not basic to the original poem, book and good map). Case in point: why all this protracted, laser beam focus on Little Indy? As if she deserves her own dedicated discussion page? She did not exist 5 years ago when ff sent early searchers on the Chase, fully expecting a very clever one may be able to solve the poem and find the TC without her help (or SB’s, etc.).

            Maybe I should have posted the following thoughts (all IMVHO, of course) over on Dal’s other page (The Nine Clues), where Little Indy is in the spotlight:

            1. She does not advance the Chase any more than any other side distraction/SB/off-hand comment.
            2. She will not reveal any “Eureka” moment.
            3. She is at best only karmic/serendipitous confirmation of a well-thought out solve, or at worst a harmless red herring that uses up one’s time/energy/resources.

            It’s past Little Indy’s bedtime. She’s very tired and has too many rabbit holes to explore in her dreams with the little boy from W and the Arab kid from M. Sleep tight, little ones.

  54. Jeremy, good ideas and well thought out. I enjoyed your art as well, hate to see you go. Thanks for all your input.

  55. Jeremy,

    No Need to respond. I find it probable that getting past the third clue will result in me getting wet. Right or wrong, it was not a result of knowing the first 2, since it is less probable that I have those right, but they are still in front of me and dry.

  56. I love it the “chase” since 2010, many have been searching for the TC…still searching in four states..most of our cherished memories were growing up feeling free with no responsibilities and most important enjoying the Outdoors..IMO, I feel to solve the poem you have to go back to FF childhood and see what was most important to him…that is were the clues will begin…soon the snow will stop fallin on the Rocky Mountains and everyone can start looking for the TC..Question did anyone look in FF backyard maybe he met feet instead of miles North of Santa…His backyard looks like the Rocky Mountains and maybe looks like the location where he hid the TC..Happy Trails be safe

  57. Theres another line created from poem clues that Forrest tells you where he starts on foot. Has anybody else found were this is?

  58. Jeremy, sorry to see you leaving Dal’s blog. I feel your “torn-ness” – as I have been trying to keep one foot on the dock and one in the canoe for about 3 months now and it doesn’t work all that well. I end up blitzing through new posts like this one to try to get the gist of what’s going on and then pressing on.

    The only thing I can say about Mavericks is that folks building up their Ford Falcons are always looking for the 5 bolt rear ends out of them. I know, pretty obtuse – welcome to my world.

  59. Searched this site for something and came across this post by Jeremy P, called Advancing the Chase. I’ve read it before. But, just wanted to say Thank You to Jeremy P. This post is well thought out, well researched, and a really good read with some great ideas. I like your writing style! I’m not on board with your location, but you have some good thoughts. I see your ideas are very similar to what I believe HOB is. Thanks again for “advancing the chase”.

  60. Jeremy on another post I was just mentioning all the people that have been within 200 feet of the TC. If Faulkner starts asking about that I will have to tell him about Angel Fire airport. You might want to get back out there before some of the Yellowstoners start exploring. Just a thought.

  61. Holy cow, Jeremy. I just read this again, and I believe we both know things…

    You may have been closer than you realize…

        • I just wanted to say you are very wise to be looking in New Mexico, and I am very glad to hear you feel Jeremy was “super close”.

          I only hope many more pick up on this idea also. In fact, I hope hordes of searchers descend on New Mexico. They could really use the tourism and dollars that would come into the state by such actions.

          You are doing a great service, and I need do hope to see this baton passed on and on again in the future.

          • Obviously because you don’t think it’s there. Lol. BUT, what if we can find which statements are true and false and why he wrote them that way?

            I believe there’s a method of this, and from what I’ve learned so far, it’s NM all the way. IMO

  62. Jeremy— I had never read this article before. I don’t know if you are still “retired” or still on “sabbatical”. But I did want to encourage you to continue looking in New Mexico–and also everyone else who reads the solve above, because the darn thing is in Wyoming.

    • I’m with you there Joe Sparrow except for one little thing. The “darn thing” may be in Wyoming but the location of the treasure chest is in Montana. Anyone got anything in CO? pdenver?

      • There’s a spot in Colorado I searched that seemed to fit, but learned it was too high in elevation from what was given to us. Others have been there, too. Beautiful place.

    • A co-worker of mine, Anne, just asked me why I think the chest is in Wyoming. I told her it was basically due to my friend Jack and one of his sickly children.

      “What do you mean?” she asked. “Well”, I answered, “one of his children was very ill, but a trip to Wyoming made Jack’s son whole again”.

      “I still don’t understand” she said.

      “Well, it also could do with the fact that I like friendly ghosts, and to top it all off I am awfully shy Anne.” I added.

      She shook her head and said “everything you say is so pun – itive”, and walked away.

  63. Totc tells you exactly what state the treasure is in. If you don’t see it don’t go looking.

    • Summary version:

      I was using the p. 99 illustration as a map, believing it matched the Eagles Nest, Cimarron Canyon area. Out in the woods where it would be on the map, I happened to find a JF tree blaze, and later discovered that the AB that is also on the blaze matched the marble illustration, reinforced by braille.

      • Hi Jeremy. In the past few days I’ve been reading about the treasure being found in many news reports. One of them, can’t remember which, said the chest was found in Colorado, which wouldn’t square with your solve. Will be interesting to get the real deets from FF.

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