The Nine Clues…Part Sixty Five


This page is closed to further comments. To continue the conversation please go to the latest Nine Clues page.

This is the place to discuss the nine clues…For instance:
What are the nine clues…
Is the first clue “Begin it where warm waters halt” ?

618 thoughts on “The Nine Clues…Part Sixty Five

  1. @Dal

    re: your post on

    So, dal, your view of F’s TLGFI statement is: “….that we can only get the first two clues from a map. After that we need a more intimate grasp of the area, such as personal geographic knowledge or a physical presence.”

    You very well may be correct in that assumption. After all, you have more one-on-one time with Forrest than anyone else involved in the Chase. You would definitely know his penchant for word play better than anyone here. So, if you feel, at face value, that is what he is saying, then so be it.

    It is just surprising, to me anyway, that he would knowingly craft the Poem in such a manner.Especially after his stated goal was to get people into the outdoors.

    If your assessment of the statement is correct, that would mean that any complete solution arrived at beforehand, regardless of resource(s) utilized, would be incorrect and useless past the first two clues.

    And anyone, adult or child, who is unable to travel to the area derived from the first two clues and physically search there, whether due to age, disability and/or financially…..would be precluded from participation.

    Wow!! That is going to eliminate a lot of people. Probably the majority of posters on the blogs/forums, and those who lurk, are of the hope that they could formulate a solution and then go test it.

    But, we maybe gotta understand that this venture was possibly not initiated with those kinds of people in mind.

    Thanks for the heads up. I am going to have to give this some thought, as apparently should others, before I continue the Chase……Man, I never would have thought, that is a lot of people having to give up!!

    • Did I miss something?
      I understood the girl from India had the “poem” and a “map”.
      Forrest said the best one could do was the first two clues.

      Unless I misunderstand something this says we probably would need the “book” to get further.???

      • I disagree with loco and special here. I think the intended meaning is not that you require to be near the area, or that you need the book, which it appears very clear to not be a necessity ( although it could help, as he has said ).

        Rather he means, I believe, that wherever you are in the world, working on the poem, you need something more than just the poem and the map- some alternative source, to get past the second clue. You need to discover things outside the poem/map.

        That’s to solve it. Ultimately you need to be there to prove your case…


        • Hey Halo,
          While I agree with your comment… I would like to add one little thought. We [ bloggers ] keep repeating “map”. Yes, it’s true fenn said the poem, the TOTC as references, GE and/or a good map… yet in this case ‘ little Indy ‘ or even a boy from Fenn father’s place of birth… the map presented in the Q&A was only for the ‘US’ Rockies. Important? Who knows.

          By the way… I enjoyed your assessment of the stanzas reading order.

          • LOL!! What a way to start the day!!!

            @special—The book? As no one has the chest, that is quite possible. But, I tend agree with “halo”… is probably some alternative source and/or perspective that only a few have utilized to date.

            @halo—Not sure what I said that you disagree with? I did not say that I agreed with dal’s opinion of what it takes to find the chest, nor his assessment of Fenn’s TLGFI statement?? I merely said he “might” be correct…..and offered my assessment of the impact that such a limitation would have on the Chase overall.

            @seeker—The map? As far as TLGFI, you may be correct. Maybe they just didn’t have a detailed enough map….who knows??

            –You said: ”While I myself have mentioned the “knowing beforehand” comment too, should we know a complete solve…? What we have been told is all the information is in the poem. So realistically, the information can be found on sight with the poem explaining what we see, yet not known till we see it. Does “found” the blaze say in the poem or ‘only’ in the field? Do we know all clues are just places?”

            —again, as you said…..we know nada! As you and others do, I strive for as complete a solution as possible, given the resources available. Every piece of information could be vital, once you are in the field…..some searchers have walked past the other seven clues. It is imperative that one can recognize a clue in the field, whether it is a “place”, or not!!

            LOL!! There is no dilemma in the Chase, only in our minds!!! I was only responding to dal’s opinion that Fenn was saying: “I believe that all Forrest was telling us with “the little girl from India” statement is, that we can only get the first two clues from a map…… After that we need a more intimate grasp of the area, such as personal geographic knowledge or a physical presence.” – – – and what the ramifications could be.

            NOW, everyone be honest…… If Fenn had said at the onset that only two clues could be solved beforehand, and then one would have to go to the “field” in order to solve the rest… many of you would have undertaken this??? How many would continue if he said it today??

            He has not said it, nor will he ever….it would, for the most part, decimate the ranks of searchers.

            And Seeker, you are correct saying this: “opportunity doesn’t mean all can physically do it.”….. But, if two clues were all that could be solved beforehand, then the “opportunity” to solve the remainder would be effectively removed, for a majority of folks. Which, in itself, would be OK. As long as one knew beforehand that limiting factor of the Chase.

            @Timothy: See all the above 🙂 . I am perfectly aware that, at some point, BOTG will possibly/probably be required….I have no prob with that. And, I am still fully invested in finding the dang chest……So you, dal, Goofy and especially Seeker, are gonna have to put with me!!! 🙂 ……(oh, unless Goof hits the Button)

            Ya’ll have a good day and Good Luck to Ya……………………loco

          • Loco, it didn’t take long after the chase started for me to come to the opinion that the poem will only be figured out on location. Where you proceed with confidence from is on location after you figure out what the poem means; you won’t be going past the last seven clues like so many have.

            Read Fenn’s answer:
            I wish I had another treasure to hide in the Appalachians. The little girl in India cannot get closer than the first two clues. There are many disabled people who are deeply into maps and geography, and they are having a lot of fun.

            And his follow up comment:
            Dal, I am sure you remember that the little girl from India was the lark of Jenny Kile, who inserted it into a question she asked me. It might just as well have been a boy from Waxahatchee, where my father was born, or an Arab kid from Marrakech, a city that Winston Churchill said was the most beautiful place in the world. He was an excellent artist and I once sold his oil painting of that city. We are getting a lot of mileage from that little girl from India, doncha think?

            In my opinion he is point blank stating that only the first two clues can be solved from home. Even though there are many disabled people having fun; the poem will only be solved on location. That’s what the chase was designed to do; get people out into nature not be obsessed behind a computer screen.

            Of course he did reserve the right to be wrong; but I don’t think he is. Just my opinion.

          • et tu, Goofy? 🙂

            It would be a boon to all, veteran searchers and newbies alike, if you would post this to the Cheat Sheet, under Forrest has said:

            “The little girl in India cannot get closer than the first two clues.
            It might just as well have been a boy from Waxahatchee, where my father was born, or an Arab kid from Marrakech, a city that Winston Churchill said was the most beautiful place in the world.”


    • Wait?! There’s a dilemma involving the chase? I thought everything was straightforwards…

      What I find hilarious is, we all seem to know notta. WE all know two clues have been solved, Yet no one knows what the heck they are. WE all know we need a good map, Yet we don’t knows what map. Do we know that this challenge was meant for all? Seriously… We all may have the ‘opportunity’ because we all have the ‘same information’ to work with… but is Great Grandma gonna leave the senior citizen home and trek the wiles of the RM’s and carry a 42lb chest back to the taxi?

      We have been told that… Most of the the places the clues refer to existed when fenn was a kid… that doesn’t say all clues are places. Is the knowing beforehand misinterpreted as a “complete solve”? or is it simply understanding something is needed to be done, looked for, thought of… planned? and still have work in the field to finalize the “complete solve”

      While I myself have mentioned the “knowing beforehand” comment too, should we know a complete solve…? What we have been told is all the information is in the poem. So realistically, the information can be found on sight with the poem explaining what we see, yet not known till we see it. Does “found” the blaze say in the poem or ‘only’ in the field? Do we know all clues are just places?

      There is a difference between ‘knowing’ as factual, and having the same ‘opportunity’ and opportunity doesn’t mean all can physically do it.

      • @Seeker, do you think that if Fenn were asked again now, he would prefer to evade the question with a different answer, like “to my uncertain knowledge, no one has been within 200 feet of the treasure”?

        I think he wants everyone to have an equal opportunity at finding it, and will do his best to not ruin it for anyone. What would such an answer do to everyone’s effort if he were to say “Yes, Dal has up to 8 clues and was within 250 feet from the spot a couple of weeks ago”?

        Right now I’m testing an idea to see if the trail to the 9th location may actually be through translation and hopping about through TTOTC. Knowing my penchant for twisting and turning, and Fenn’s statements on how the book wrote itself (meaning he maybe had an outline he needed to fill in with anecdotes), this part is time-consuming and frustrating me a bit. Some of the shorter stories seem to me to be written for the intention of providing the hint or step in the path.

        For example, “title to the gold” may be suggesting TTOTC… the phrase itself may translate to a homonym for “parlor”, suggesting Bessie and Me with the definition of “a building used for milking cows”. The Bessie and Me focus on “tail” may translate to “cola”, or mentions in Gold and More, where then the English “cola” translates to “reajuste salarial”, or a possible homonym pointing to the story of his income in “Father on the Banco”… and then a Spanish synonym for “banco” may translate to “school”, confirming something a bronze way pointer for a view-finder on the Shrine of the Sun’s deck suggests might be the answer to “brave and in the wood”. I’ll drive there later today to have a look around because, at the very least, it seems relevant in one of the stories.

        I just don’t think Fenn will answer succinctly what is being asked if it risks the thrill for others, although I will freely give away my own personal progress to inspire productive discussion that may assist me or others toward the solution.

    • Hey Loco,
      I’m sorry that you feel that way, it’s a lot of fun reading some of your stuff. Forrest wrote the Poem the way he did so it would be an adventure for all who is interested in it and get any and all of the people of the couch and into the forest. Mainly he wanted to get the kids away from the computers and hand held devices and into the mountains and woods. Every searcher here on the blogs had to understand that at one point in their solve they would have to put BOTG. This was never hidden from anyone and in some blogs it’s been stated over and over. If it were possible to find gold that has been abandoned from the arm chair using your head, computer research and GE then by 2017 there shouldn’t be any lost gold in the US any more. Your very smart as is a lot of people who blog. If they do not understand then they haven’t been listening or hearing all that’s been blogged. As for Dal Forrest has said that Dal doesn’t get any special info from him. Dal gets all of the same info at the same time we all do. Actually, if it wasn’t for Dal and Goofy running these blogs none of us would be getting any info and the whole Chase would have to be BOTG, with many many more trips involved.
      Well I’m done and I hope not to offend you or anyone else, but I don’t see that anything has changed at all.
      Good Luck with your future ventures & sereaches

  2. It is my belief that I had entered there while uncertain. Though it may have been an adventurous choice and unyeilding, it is also my belief that I can continue in peace with that knowledge. Why? I do not yet know, but I have seen with eyes not my own.
    f, will you work on another hidey place so the finder of Indulgence can hide another container of days? Perhaps, it can be named Insperation.
    I’m sure most searchers can an will dismiss this commentary. I’m fine with that. Maybe it is meant for one. Eh, maybe a few. They say hindsight is 20/20, but what if your too far to see?
    Ponder yonder wonder.
    The ninth clue

    • It is my strong belief that you cannot know the 9th clue until the first 8 are solved. So my question to you is if it is too far to see with 20/20 hindsight can you see it with a good pair of binoculars?

      • nd4peace,
        My belief is that binoculars are not needed. What I have seen 20/20, I have seen with my naked eye clearly. I wear corrective lenses. I mention this just to be straight forward with you. It is all a matter of perspective, IMO of course.

    • Not really, she needs more than 2 to be that close but she will probably go right past it.

  3. I love this Chase!!! The comments, the ideas, the stories and especially getting out there on the trail. I would love to find Fenn’s trove, but the mystery and intrigue get’s me pumped! Good luck searchers and be careful out there…

      • Hey Seek,
        I LOVE THE CHASE CHALLENGE. it wouldn’t be challenging if f started giving out straight hints, clues or even the answer. My challenge is to myself, I want to show me that I can decipher the poem and retrieve the reward. I have no use for the monetary value as I do the artifact and past history with-in the items. I get so wound up (in a good way) inside just thinking of having the ancient artifacts and what they represent. To sell all of that is just crazy. It can get melted down and it would take all of the past history with it. What a shameful thought that is…
        I can never be as smart as f is but I can be smarter than 60,000 others IMHO

  4. The Nine Clues….

    Shall I toss more kerosene on the fire?

    Forrest said you need a good map, eh? Did he spell that out or just say it? If we follow the idea that there may be homonyms in the poem, perhaps there are also homonyms in Forrest’s hints.

    IMO, perhaps his “good map” is a “Goode” map? This map has been used widely in textbooks in elementary and high school since Forrest’s days. (Do you remember it?). Specifically the Goode map of the world was revolutionary in that it laid out the world in proper perspective, merging two previously used world maps at every latitude between 40°44’ North and South.

    Have at it fellow bloggers!

    ~ Wisconsin Mike

  5. One of the wonderful things about the chase, is that we each can have our own thoughts and/or opinions as to what the words of the poem mean.

    Dal has his view, and I have mine. I was able to develop a complete solve using only the poem, A Topo map and GE with a bit of research online.

    Was I right? I have made four trips to my site so far this year. Each trip has
    resulted in a great adventure, but no treasure. Partly, due to my own stupidity.

    I HAD a perfect solution, and decided to go farther up my stream to a new
    location – BIG MISTAKE! Ice has also been a real hindrance to me.

    This week-end I shall return to my original site. I am in hopes that all of
    the ice has melted. If it has, I go with confidence!

    The two additional trips were not wasted though. With boots-on-the-ground, I
    learned a lot. What I learned enabled me to get a “REAL” overview of my
    search area. This overview proved to be a road map BACK to my original

    The value of Boots-on-the-ground can not be discounted, BUT as I said
    earlier, I was able to develop my first “solve” using only the poem and a good map and GE with a small bit of help for on-line research.

    If I can do it, anyone can.

    If I fail this week-end, I hope that someone finds it soon.

    Good luck to all searchers, and STAY SAFE.


        • Thank you. I have only been a member of this blog for a few days and I enjoy reading your posts. Sorry for not knowing where your search is this Blog is HUGE. I never seen anything like it.

          • ndW4peace Welcome to the enchanting and addicting Home of Dal (HOD) . Where dreams and fantasies alike go to play. The one and only equal- opportunity treasure hunt. The place you run to when you have a thought to share, a mishap to scream, a folly to giggle about and a whisper of your latest and greatest solve. We may not always agree or get along, but we are a family and that is what loving, supportive families do. Welcome to TTOTC. Of course, this is all IMO. Lol

          • Welcomt nd4peace,
            I’ll tell you mine, nothing to hide just trying to narrow things down. Southwest Colorado. The scap book I think it’s 106 shows a 5 dollar bill. from there it’s on you. Pueblo ruins everywhere, very cool and so interesting to see.
            Be safe on all searches and good luck with everything. Remember, only look where a 80 year young man could place the TC. (Treasure Chest)
            BOTG (boots on the ground)
            IMO (in my opinion)

    • Hi JD.

      Thanks for sharing your ideas and experiences.

      On all of my own searches, I plan time at the end of the trip to explore further ahead for at least a few miles.

      I think the person who finds the treasure will have become fairly experienced with the surrounding geography for miles in all directions.

      Good luck !

      • At my age (73) I have to limit my searching – but
        a good idea none-the-less.

        Take care, and good luck


    • JD,

      Well said, nothing can replace experience. I always hated the quote “failure is not an option” so i added to it:

      “Failure is not an option, its a growth opportunity”

      Seems to fit well in my opinion.

      Good luck my friend and be safe.

  6. Hey Muset,
    I couldn’t agree more. With all of the on line searching , all of the Google Earth searches turning the screen every angle and upside down and all of the blogging
    “I’m sure” that the person that finds the treasure chest will know every inch of their surroundings. And let us not leave out all of the BOTG trips to verify all of the other information. Man do the years go by quick. But I’m from Illinois and I have loved the people and the mountains more than even I thought I would. Just like the searchers on the Blogs, meeting new people is just a new friendship starting up in our lives.
    Good luck on your future searches, Be Safe at all times

    • @ACE – the book Origin of Thought and the chapter on Imagination suggests the vision of 79 years might also be useful to cross the pons asinorum.

      • You are wise sir. I feel I will do fine however with the book + belief + imagination. Belief to keep me strong and imagination and book to get me there. I will use logic to make sure my shoes are on the right feet!

        Happy Hunting!

  7. I am seeing a lot of searchers post questions about “a good map” many of us use terms like topographical, detailed, 7 and 1/2 minute maps, quadrangles, Google Earth, etc etc, somehow I get the feeling the latest and greatest maps with fancy legends or keys using Satellite technology is not the message ff meant when he inferred ” a good map was needed and the poem”. Why use so many ancient words “drawing” “nigh” me back to believe that “tarry scant” is not time spent at the “Marvel Gaze” no, it is something entirely different, but I am at a loss to understand why and what importance it has/had to ff?

    I think a good map would be one made before ff was born, since he admits that “most” of the places existed when he was a kid he just illustrated them in his clues and hints. The poem I feel gives me hints, not just 9 clues that are moving me closer to my solve I am undertaking in a couple of months, in fact there is a clear sense of;

    After living almost all my life and spending many of my vacations in Northern NM and Co, I finally think I am onto it and the 30th hunt will be a charm or it may prove once again how difficult the Chase is. I just feel that I have not given enough attention to searches above 37 degrees Lat. But like ff’s father said, you gotta grab every banana along the way.

    Tom T

  8. Any interpretation that leaves the “Girl From India” statement true is open for consideration. Its easy for Forrest to test these statements before issuing because he only has to consider the location of the TC and the poem. For us, it is a matter of imagination and trial and error…:

    1) You must be BOTG to discover clues 3 through 9


    2) Clues 1 and 2 point to locations equidistant to India (or any point east in relation) and clues 3 though 9 point to places west of the first 2 clues


    3) The TC is physically closer to the places described by the first 2 clues than to the places involved in the remaining 7


    4) ???? I’m sure there are other possibilities I haven’t thought of.

    Don’t dismay. I think that Forrest has clearly suggested that the one who finds the chest will have to “think” and “analyze” their way to the end, and when boots hit the ground they will move with confidence to the TC… not just poke around and enjoy nature (even though the latter seems to be his highest aim). So i think the “arm chair” work continues to be valid…

  9. Slurbs, and others,
    “…too far to see?”
    IMO, that is why the “good map” is needed.
    And I think I figured out why “magnetic variation” is not important.
    Meanwhile, before my next BOTG, I research the Dread Pirate Roberts saying, “Get used to disappointment.”
    “Have flashlight and gloves, will travel”

    • Louie, can’t you pretend everyone on the blog sent an email wanting to know your humble opinion…and just post it so we all can review / critic/ be inspired by it

      • Arnold, Everything I am about to post is in my humble opinion. My WWWH is in the snow capped mountains, which I interpret as being the first clue. Then I take it in the canyon down ,not far. which I believe to be the second clue. This leads me to a minor problem. I can’t start at the top of a mountain. I have to come in from the bottom which is why its to far to walk. So what do I do? I put my car in below the home of Brown and work my way back up the top to clue 2. So the first 2 clues takes you to the treasure in thought and the next 7 clues takes you back up to the second clue by using boots on the ground . Remember the saying by T.S.Eliot? That’s why I stated my humble opinion about no one can get any closer than the first 2 clues. In my solve that statement is exactly right.

        • I admit that your solve does sound like it might have some merit. I like your thinking of working your way back to clue 3…keep thinking and good luck

  10. Are there any retired or independently wealthy full time searchers living in the treasure valley of Idaho, or in the Yellowstone area in Montana, or anywhere in between, that would be interested in meeting to discuss my solve, and perhaps forming a partnership? Serious inquiries only please…and I want somebody that can devote some time to looking for the blaze in the area I give them…you can solve the entire poem at home, but you must be able to find the blaze to execute the search any further…oh yeah…IMO

  11. Sub…..Please excuse me if I’m repeating something that was said in an earlier post. Allergies are effecting my vision terribly this spring and I’m not able to read much due to blurry or double vision. Also excuse any typos for the same reason.

    In my opinion, the reason searchers found the first two clues and were within 200 ft. of the TC and went right by it was because they had identified the other clues incorrectly. I believe that this has happened because the correct “key word” hasn’t been identified. Forrest has stated that he was surprised of that fact (I’m not sure where he stated that or if it was a video). In my opinion, the correct key word is attached to, is part of, or follows the second clue. So until the correct key word is put into play, with the correct second clue, any other clues following the first two will be wrong. That’s just my opinion.

    I had my first solve all worked out, then, I realized it was wrong due to the fact that there would be too many tourist/people in this northern NM area, and I couldn’t see Forrest resting with the TC several hundred years before being discovered. So it’s back to the drawing board for me. Good luck to everyone.

    • Melissa, I also made that assumption after reading those 2 remarks too many times I ended up combining them.

      F never said that the searchers who correctly gave the first 2 clues and went right past the other 7 were the SAME ones who also were within 200 feet and didn’t know they were there.

      Dals cheat sheet:
      ♦ “Some folks correctly mentioned the first two clues to me in an email and then they went right past the other seven, not knowing that they had been so close”.
      ♦ People have been within 500’ of the treasure
      ♦ “Some of the searchers have been within 500 feet I know”.
      ♦ “Searchers have been within 200 feet”. Huffpost interview 02/04/15

      You are right about the word that is key= keyword= password. Is it one of the 3 Bs’, bold, Brown, blaze. What do you think?

      • OZ,

        The key (word) or legend of his poem could be any one of many possibilities, however once you have that word, what do you do with it? Thinking this way helps guide you on his route to the TC.

        I can see how many of the words, especially in the beginning, before WWWH in the first Stanza would be typical placement for a Key or Legend guide in the normal sense of mapping. This poem is a map, a pathway, a route.

        As I have stated earlier, I am in tight focus with this whisper of a word, HINT because ff never mentions hints in the poem but admits freely that there are hints the Thrill Book if we can recognize em. Clues admitted, hints in poem seem logical because if you get a solve with all 9 clues there are some that always seem to be left over, I liken this to 12 or 14 combined, so IMO the Key is to distinguish the clues from the hints, understanding that hints are confirmation of your solve, not necessarily a geographic pathway/route to the Chest.

        There are also “two words” that I feel ff has put together, created and intentionally misused their meaning to describe something, an object that would surely give the location away, and once you understand that, you know that many people may have been within 200′ of the TC and past right on by.

        Tom T, it’s just my nickname not my personality, go figure?

        • Thanks Tom, I will think about that one. I researched Brown way too much. To me that is the one that stands out from the rest of the poem, you know ‘it goes alone in there, it is bold, it keeps the secret (ff said if he told us what that was we will walk right to the chest) but is not hinting riches to me yet. Misdirection? who knows…

      • Thanks Oz for posting that. No I don’t believe the keyword is one of the 3 B’s, I believe it is an obscure word that makes another word pop and fall into place, you know, one of those “I could have had a V8, smack your forehead moments” lol. BUT, I’m a baby searcher, meaning I just started in Jan. of 2016, alnd when I was able to read a lot and would read some of the seasoned searchers comments, I’d think, “now why didn’t I think of that?” So anything I post is in my humble opinion. Good luck!


        • Good luck to you too. I found out about the search when the news about Randy came out, a few months ago. I am still hoping he is found alive and well.

          • That’s about the same time I started out, although I think I may have seen something about it several years ago, but didn’t become interested in the chase.

            I too hope he’s found alive and well, but I’m not sure anyone will know until winter’s last grip has gone. I just keep reminding myself what Forrest has said many times, don’t go where a 79 or 80 yr. old man couldn’t go.


  12. Loco, Goofy, Seeker, et al,

    I have to add my two cents on what’s been said about the LGFI. Like many of Fenn’s quotes, if you take them individually you can attribute many different meanings and get confused. For 4 years I have been operating off the common assumption that 9 clues = 9 spots on the map and that by applying enough imagination I could decipher what those locations where. That hasn’t panned out for me or a lot of others and it’s been constantly lamented here that collectively “we must be missing something”. Granted that thinking this way leads to a difficult and challenging solution path but what if that’s not how the chase was designed?

    As a result, I have spent the last 5 months analyzing Forrests quotes pertaining to the chase looking for patterns. When the LGFI came up on MW back in February that really precipitated an Ah-Ha moment where everything came together and it became clear to me that 9 clues= 9 spots is the wrong approach. I needed a paradigm shift. As Goofy pointed out earlier, this approach results in a “retrieval” style solution (the searcher goes directly to their spot and rummages around) that is not what Fenn intended. He wants you out there following a “trail of clues” through the woods that can’t be known ahead of time. But he knew that you needed a starting place so he gave two clues that can be found on a map to get you started. This is what a real thrill of the chase is about. Designing the puzzle this way creates the perfect firewall to prevent the armchair solve and guarantees that the finder gets out and earns it the old fashioned way (exploring the woods not to mention it ensures a longer lived run of 100 to 1000 years).

    He’s been pushing us toward this conclusion for quite some time. Emphasizing the importance of the first clues, telling us they must be followed in order (“there is no other way to my knowledge” f), telling us they are consecutive and contiguous.

    This perfectly explains why people can get two clues right and walk by the others….because they thought they knew what the other 7 were going in rather than understanding that they needed to be looking for poem clues with BOG. This design guarantees there are no short cuts and that the exact path must be followed (“Their contiguous. I knew where I wanted to hide the treasure chest so it was easy for me to put one foot down and then step on it to get to the next foot….that’s what I did. f”

    I would urge everyone to look at all of Fenns answers to questions (just about the chase…forget SB’s) and look at the pattern. My advice is to stop attributing long and complex rationalizations to individual statements….look at the big picture story that ALL his answers direct you to. Many of the veterans here are doing this but I suspect the majority are locked in thinking in the same old direction.

    I know this dashes a lot of solutions and as Loco pointed out this will thin the herd because going out to look with 2 clues under your belt takes a lot more self-confidence than going out with nine. It’s time to think with a different mind-set. All IMO of course.

      • Literate,
        I certainly don’t rule that out. More twists are always possible.

        Would you be willing to share something about how you think that works?

    • IMHO, you have 2 or 3 shifts in your thinking to go. I agree with what you say, 9 does not equal 9, but there are 9. I was there, I think I’m one step beyond that now, the method changes. It’s not a one method fits all clues affair.

    • Preachin to the choir Colokid. But let me throw a curve-ball and you can take a swing at it…
      Possibilities ~ or what if’s: we are told we need to “know where to start” and ” nail down the first clue”… are the one in the same? Fenn did say [ no I don’t have the comment at the ready ] Possibly 10 clues scenario. Is this where all those searcher got screwed up? It’s debatable, but just a thought.

      Now to the first two clues being on a map, I can’t argue that.. But why not the other seven be in the same spot? Spot here would be around 500′ for example. Could that explain why the other went pass or walked by… their area was mistaken in size. So the thought is this;
      Know were to start…can find first clue[s] there… other seven, even though may be places… just not as big an area as thought.
      Is wise and “found” the blaze a designed for the other seven that show the location of the chest? This hypothetical is to explain my comment and question… How many clues does it take to have an answers?

      Know beforehand the place we need to start

      Find the first clue and understand what is needed to why this is significant [ so if this and clue two can be found on a map or by the poem prior… most everyone is still in the running]

      Seven remaining clues are to be ‘utilized’, maybe because we create the blaze ~ a marker / pointer to the chest. [doesn’t matter that method at this point ] but known beforehand that we need to finish this in a small area near the first two clues… and the place we know to start at. 9 clues used… with the place to start… Found/create [ which is one meaning of found ] and we have three answers and a location… can it be known beforehand? Well sure, I just said it. Can little Indy or anyone get any farther the the first two clues… no.

      Could a handicap/disabled person or a three year old girl get to the chest? We have been told with assistance they could.

      So the question in this hypothetical scenario is… can we find or told the “place” to start by the poem?

      Oh! right.. the part that fenn wanted us to be out all over the RM’s searching for the chest… tracking trails/exploring/ enjoying the great outdoors… when we ALL have the same information and opportunity… that was answered already… fenn said he was happy the poem has don’t it’s job well.
      65,000 plus searchers has proven that over 5.5 years.

      So while botg is needed at some point… is it impossible to think knowing “beforehand” of what we should be doing so hard to consider?

      We both have the same thoughts… just a difference perspective of reading he poem.

      • Seeker,
        You and I have debated all this many times so let me just briefly state how I see it going down. Obviously this is just my opinion and I can see many other optional approaches, but F did say to keep it simple. Additional twists are always and option.

        First off I’m not sure F every said that a handicapped person could get to the chest. I know someone has stated that he told them that privately but I await a direct quote. He has said they are participating for sure but I’m sure the extent of the disability will come into play.

        Second, I see no reason why a child couldn’t get to the chest if an 80 year old guy could.

        To answer your question I believe the first/second clues and starting point are one and the same. Once there I think you are probably very close (< 1 mile…a guess) and are going to have to visually identify landmarks and/or direction-of-travel to match the other clues. Perhaps the Blaze marks the spot…I don't think we'll know till we get there. I think the other 7 are fluid without knowing them in advance.

        Again, IMO, the other 7 walk you precisely to the chest.

        Sure there are many ways people "could have" gone by the remaining clues but that's just focusing on one thing he said. I think all the things he said taken as a whole provide a clearer picture.

        • All possible… No argument. Just a different reading.

          And my point… Is this poem only to be read as a step by step… We may never know, but options are important. So for now I side with loco ( ow! That Hurt ) that we need to know/ understand what is to be done prior…maybe not the answers, just simply the knowledge / understanding that get us through it.

          • Seeker,

            A couple of clarifications. I think all the clues refer to “places”; just not places that are named on a map. For instance a massive unique boulder in the middle of a clearing is a place but probably won’t show on a map. And, yes, I do think that most of the clues are relatively close together but I don’t think that has anything to do with why some were missed.

            Not sure what you meant here: “Possibly 10 clues scenario. ” I’m not familiar with a quote where he said there might be a 10th clue?

            Also not sure what you meant by: “So for now I side with loco ( ow! That Hurt ) that we need to know/ understand what is to be done prior”.

            Are you saying that you think the poem should tell us some special information about how to treat the clues that can be determined before hand….rather than just stepping from one clue to the next once you are at the starting point? Not sure I follow.

          • Colokid,

            I’m suggesting that instead of simply going from the first clue[s]… that those clue[s] are need to start us ‘doing something’ other than stomping around. As in the scenario, all the clues are Utilized to form something ~ calculate something, do something etc.

            Whatever that maybe we should, by rights, have knowledge of it beforehand… that is what I’m suggesting. That doesn’t mean we have the answers yet, just what to do when there.

            not far…. too far to walk? right..pacing?
            end… turn left?
            There are seven steps of pacing just for a quick example only.

            These are just thoughts I look at to see if there is another way of reading the poem other than stomping…
            What I don’t get it is this… If WWWH is the first clue and the place to start… Something in the poem or the book must indicate that. There are many WWH in the Rockies and nearly all are N of SF… Using just the USA Rockies only and not know what Warm Waters actually is… we can guess at thousands of possibilities. IF that were true [ the poem doesn’t tell us exactly, or the book indicates such ] I can see why it would take 100 or a 1000 years to solve this.

            Right now it doesn’t really matter if my example or yours or anyone’s theory is correct if we don’t know where to start.

            So we can say all day long WWH is the first clue… how do we get to that conclusion… what the answer is. or is something else the first clue that is “not many”?

            Now I’m back to … ignore the first clue comment… don’t dwell enough on the first clue… If some may have up to four clues, and still not know? Yep we’re missing something.

          • Seeker,
            You said: “So we can say all day long WWH is the first clue… how do we get to that conclusion… what the answer is. or is something else the first clue that is “not many”?”

            You pointed to the quote about “there are many places were warm waters halt and most of them are north of Santa Fe”. I look at this the way Dal does. I don’t believe he is saying there are many places “similar” to what he chose for WWH….I think he is saying there are many places that could be “thought of” as WWH but aren’t what he intended. The best example would be a hot spring. It’s warm water but probably not what he had in mind and there are too many to isolate a specific one (tho many have tried).

            You said: “Using just the USA Rockies only and not know what Warm Waters actually is… we can guess at thousands of possibilities.” Precisely, but who said the phrase WWWH has to be about a water feature. I think that’s where the trick is….WWWH is a disguised way of saying something else and that’s where we trip up.

            So how do we know what’s first and how to we determine it? IMO the word “Begin” is the biggest flag but consider this quote: “All of this cyberspace verbiage is conspicuous by the absence of talk about where warm waters halt. ” f

            If WWH isn’t important why does he point us specifically to that lilne? If something crucial was in the 1st stanza why not say “….absence of talk about riches new and old” for instance.

            And listen to

            at about minute 4:30 the interviewer says something about “I guess you have to know where HOB is”, Forrest responses, “That’s right….and you have to know where WWH…”

            So I would argue, based on the number of instances where he points us back to WWH, that this is the start. It’s a theme based on many statements, not just a single statement.

            I advocate that we look at “everything he says” and look for patterns. My belief is that concentrating too closely on individual statements will sent us in circles.

            I’m an Occams Razor guy…. “other things being equal, simpler explanations are generally better than more complex ones” .

            As always, I reserve the right to be wrong.

          • Colokid,
            I see what your saying,

            Sometimes a poem is not just a poem – CBC

            (3:50) “The clues are in the poem & my book (TTOTC) has hints that will help a person with the clues. The book won’t take you to the treasure chest but it’ll help you with the clues that are in the poem.” The interviewer reads the second stanza to the poem: “Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down, not far, but too far to walk, put in below the home of brown.” “That seems like a couple of clues to me” “That sounds like 3 or 4 to me” Interviewer:”I guess you have to know where the home of brown is?” Forrest:”That’s right & you have to know where warm waters halt”

            “It says, They’ll be no paddle up your creek just heavy loads & water high, hmmm, couple more clues there” “Sounds like it to me”

            So why did Forrest jump to WWWH from HOB?
            Seems obvious to me.

          • Colokid,
            Does it matter for the sake of this discussion what Warm waters is? nope…

            The point is, we have been told, there are “many”. And they range the length the Rockies from top to bottom and I can add below them as well. So all we had was the book and the poem to start ~ if one does not hold the answer to the clue[s] it become nothing more than a guessing came. Can we really apply the after the fact comments to tell us that answer? I say, it would defeat the purpose of the challenge.

            You said; ” I don’t believe he is saying there are many places “similar” to what he chose for WWH….I think he is saying there are many places that could be “thought of” as WWH but aren’t what he intended. The best example would be a hot spring. It’s warm water but probably not what he had in mind and there are too many to isolate a specific one (tho many have tried).”

            I see the point of what we think to what fenn intended… However if we are to be ‘confident’ and ask ourselves “what took me so long?” I still have to examine that the book or the poem must have the indicator / answer. Fenn stated… “you don’t need to read my book” I can argue that reading doesn’t mean information is not in the book and that is fenn talk… but it is curious at the same time. Then fenn said in the same breath, you need to decipher the poem… can’t argue that either.. he wrote the poem. Then adds the book will help… wait! what??

            This has been the confusing part as to does the book hold vital information or just the poem? and This brings me back to Warm Waters… IF the answer to the many is not indicated in the poem [ possibly the book ] then all we have is a guessing game… And that does not sense to the comment[s]… the poem has all the information, the book as a reference [ yet apparently does not need to be read ] GE and /or a good map, and all the confidence and knowing beforehand, comments.

            Now while we are to attempt to interpret the poem and there can be many way to see that… we know one thing we didn’t know from the start… the many WWH… If it is the first clue, is it just a guessing game? IF not the answer should be told to us in some form… would you agree? and if not can you explain your thoughts?

            I’m very curious, and we can do this in PM if ya like. But I think this is an important discussion about where do we get the information to interpret / decipher the clues.

          • Hi Seeker,
            I’m a little confused because it sounds like you are shifting back and forth between several topics: a) the “many” WWH, and b) whether there is information in the book to help us, c) whether we can use his subsequent comments after the poem was first released.

            Let’s start with the “many” WWH. You said: “The point is, we have been told, there are “many”. And they range the length the Rockies from top to bottom and I can add below them as well.” And you said: “ we know one thing we didn’t know from the start… the many WWH”.
            I don’t know how to say it better than I did before but I will try: I don’t agree that he is saying there are many WWH. That is a possible interpretation but I direct you back to Dals analysis. Here’s what Dal said: “I believe that when Forrest mentioned WWWH..and said that there are many of them and most are north of Santa Fe, he was specifically talking about hot springs.
            I think he was simply pointing out that these hot springs could not be his WWWH because there are too many of them and unless you see a way in the poem to eliminate all but one of them you would not know where to start. Hence he said “there are many of them and most are north of Santa Fe.”
            Most folks seem to believe that a hot spring…or similar feature is the place where warm waters halt. I believe Forrest was using that opportunity to hint to us that this is an incorrect assumption and that his WWWH is something more unique, more interesting and knowing anything about ciphers or an education in geology is not necessary to find it. I think this was a clever hint from Forrest telling us that his WWWH is not a hot spring or “the like”.”

            I agree with Dal….Forrest did not tell us there are many WWH’s relevant to the poem. IMO.

            Then you said: “So all we had was the book and the poem to start ~ if one does not hold the answer to the clue[s] it become nothing more than a guessing came. Can we really apply the after the fact comments to tell us that answer? I say, it would defeat the purpose of the challenge.”

            So first of all I think we can use some things F has said after-the-fact. Why not? I don’t think this negates what he said about only needing the poem but if you do just use the poem and block out everything else it will be much harder. It would require that you happen to think along the “exact” lines that Forrest was thinking and think through every possible way the clue set could have been designed. That could take century’s. He said we would not have an easy time. Devils advocate: Isn’t the “many” comment an after-the-fact comment? If so, why the emphasis on MANY? I believe the “many” comment is irrelevant to knowing what or where WWWH is.

            In reference to the first clue you said: “ If it is the first clue, is it just a guessing game? IF not the answer should be told to us in some form… would you agree? and if not can you explain your thoughts?”

            I assume you are asking whether we are just guessing as to what the first clue is? On the one hand yes we are guessing….that’s part of the uncertainty built into the riddle to make it hard. If he told us directly what the first clue is then he decreases the difficultly. But as I pointed out I think he has hinted and redirected us many times to look at WWWH. I’m not assuming he is telling us anything but very indirectly. You have to start somewhere….isn’t the word “BEGIN” a good place?

            Was this any clearer?

          • Colorkid,

            I am shifting from here to there, not so much topics, but avenues, to read / see the information. So if I say something that make it sounds… this is my way of seeing this or that… It’s not. I’m attempting to see it from as many angles as possible.

            I can see two clues prior and the rest only botg.
            I can see two clues so closely related the can be one in the same, and not easily see it.
            I can see something else as the first clue and so on.
            I can see a single location with all the clues working to make something.. maybe the blaze itself. [Location = approx 500′]
            I can see travel involved by the searcher over some miles [ clue travels ]
            I can see the poem as being read in the third party or narrated in the second party.
            I can see the book being needed and the then the poem is all you need..

            etc. etc.

            Yes, I attempt to see it from all angles or otherwise… WWWH can only be the first clue and stanza one has notta. And 9 clues only goes as far as Just take the chest… leaving stanza 5 and 6 as fillers.

          • This reply is directed mainly at Colokid and Seeker, but I welcome comments from anyone. Here is one strawman approach:
            Assumption #1: “Begin it where warm waters halt” is one of the first two clues.

            Assumption #2: If we take Forrest at his word, assumption #1 is not actionable because there are too many places in the Rockies that can be made to fit equally well. One can hardly proceed with confidence when assumption #1 doesn’t rule out any of the four states. Colokid has taken this as a sort of backhanded clue that WWWH must not be associated with a hot spring or warm spring for the very reason that it is too ambiguous. So the question is then, if you eliminate from consideration all the WWWH’s that are tied to thermal springs, what other WWWH’s remain? Having spent hundreds of hours scanning 7.5-minute topos of most of two of the states in play, and a good fraction of a third state, there are quite a few WWWH’s that are out there that do not involve thermal water features. So a second clue is going to be needed to winnow down the remaining possibilities.

            Assumption #3: Let WWWH be the first clue with assumption #2 in play, and assume “take it in the canyon down” is the second. Is the combination sufficiently unique to identify a starting point? Unfortunately, I don’t believe so. Or at least I have several candidate places that meet these requirements, and one doesn’t stand out more than the others. I certainly can’t proceed with “confidence”. I suppose I could proceed with “thoroughness” and hit them all, but this could get quite expensive!

            I conclude one or more of the following:
            1. I haven’t stumbled across the correct WWWH yet
            2. Either WWWH or TIITCD is not one of the first two clues
            3. You need more than 2 clues correct to uniquely identify the starting point

            I’m leaning toward #1.

          • Zap,

            When I first read; “This reply is directed mainly at Colokid and Seeker…” I asked myself… great, what did I do now? Then I said, what ever it was, I’ll just blame Colokid. Lol.
            Honestly, we can assume a lot of things… WWH may be many, but could the answer be, all of them? Of course that also depends on what fenn actually means by WWH.
            The other thought is why a single line to mean a single answer to a clue? I mean is there a rule that stanza two hold three or four answers? I have asked this before…How many clues does it take to get an answer? So sure WWWH and canyon down can work combination, and I’ll add it may be one answer and not two individual answers.
            You’re asking great question and giving good thoughts, but have you or I or anyone else asked all the correct questions to ourselves…
            Lets use the comment ‘know where to start’ and the first clue comment ‘ without it ya got notta’ Are they the same in one? Could, know where to start not be a clue as much as a place to find/see/understand the clues?
            Here’s another thought… is the know where to start, later in the poem? Example; I can say to you, turn right, drive 5 miles, turn left for 2 more, turn left again to the next right turn, and top 1 miles down that road… all given points to go, but yet no place to start… not until I tell you to start on elm street. So can we assume that the starting point is after the clues? That still keeps the poem straightforwards, does it not?
            While I can see the clues in order, is that all we’re looking for… just clues? I have to look at this poem as a poem first, and not just searching for what a clue is. I know that doesn’t work with your post and questions, yet that is how I’m approaching it.
            For me straightforwards means; in all honesty, and not so much step 1 2 3. Maybe WWH is the first clue and the place to start, but is that “place” large or small? There is a lot to consider in my eyes.
            Sorry if I wasn’t nay help.

    • Colorkid – Good call. I will throw out this question/answer from Shaun Whitehead over on Jenny’s site:

      “4Q) The Thrill of the Chase by Forrest Fenn has not only captured people’s attention in the United States, but in your country, and even the world. It is a treasure hunt worthy of anyone’s inquiry. As a successful treasure hunter, what do you feel is one of the most important things to consider about searching for this chest of gold?”

      “My hat is off to Forrest Fenn! He has secured his place in legend. I always say that it is important to get into the mind of the hunt setter, and as with serious archaeology, to get back to the purest information. With Forrest, it’s difficult. He may be an amazing character, intelligent and wily, but we have no idea whether he is any good at setting treasure hunts. It would be a great mistake to assume that the hunt is a work of genius, it may be but we can’t possibly know.”

      “Now for a tip, you can take this or leave it, but I know a little bit about these things. Some people think that this can be solved like an “armchair” hunt, identifying the location from the comfort of one’s home before heading straight to it. I thought like this, I don’t any more. Some people think that it can only be found by getting out and about, and randomly fitting solutions to the clues. I don’t think so. I think that the way it will be solved is a combination of the two.”

      “I think that the clues point to geographical features, but not specific ones, so for example “wise” would not lead you to a named feature such as Owl Creek, otherwise you would be able to short-circuit the solution and Forrest is convinced that we cannot do that. I think that the clues are not complex codes or ciphers, but more crossword-style, so you can (and should) have a very good idea about the features you are looking for before you leave home. However, you will probably not positively identify them without going there, except if you are lucky on Google Maps and Street View. You should definitely start where warm waters halt!”

      Reread those last few sentences.

      And then the response from f to Shaun about the statement that was posted on Shaun’s website before he (Shaun, not f) took it down:

      “You are a class act Shaun and your comments are mostly correct.”

      And this quote from f:

      Q. In your mind, who would be the best person or family to find this treasure?
      A. A family that is joined together and going out looking for the treasure 4, 5, or 10, or 50 times. Take a tent and sleeping bags, and your fishing pole and go out looking. That was my primary motive.

      Multiple searches of an area, slowly putting all the pieces together, until you finally arrive at the chest in confidence and ask yourself, “what took me so long?” This is how we as humans functionally work, figure things out, and make discoveries. f keenly understand human nature and what it means to experience the thrill of the chase; AND that is what he made this to be in my opinion.

      Let’s assume for a moment that WWWH is the first clue as associated with those who have identified the first two clues and then went by the other 7 not having correctly identified any of them. We have WWWH and also “take it in the canyon down” as the probable second clue. We know many people have got the first clue correct and missed the second clue and we also know people have arrived at the first clue and didn’t understand the significance of where they were.

      Why did so many miss the “canyon” then? And why did others not know they were even at the place? Because they didn’t understand how to decipher or solve the meaning of the clues.

      If these two clues are determinable before going and were determined correctly by several parties and the other clues are only determinable onsite, then the other 7 clues were probably predetermined by the parties and they went with a notion of what they thought the clues should be, ignoring everything they passed by, and arrived at their final spot with everything wrong, missing the other 7 clues and passing within hundreds of feet of the chest as they went. Gives some perspective to the what if scenario example f presented to us and his latest “If all of you have such great ideas about the solve, how can they be wrong?”

      One thing I do believe, like Shaun said, is that one can go with good ideas of what they should be generally looking for in the clues, not that the clues will be easily figured out or immediately identified once at the correct location, but probably overlooked or not understood without standing there and staring at things over and over before it clicks (threading a tract through the wiles of nature and circumstance). I could throw out more statements and quotes from f on this, but I think this whole thing is more than long enough already.

      And Colorkid, I second your advice:

      “I would urge everyone to look at all of Fenns answers to questions (just about the chase…forget SB’s) and look at the pattern.”

      If TTOTC has hints in it that can help lead one to the chest and a person cannot figure out what those hints are and actually find the chest, then I can’t imagine how heaping on more material and hanging onto everything else f says is going to magically take one to Indulgence. It is irrational in my mind. I have been focusing on these statements as a whole for several years now and they paint a very interesting picture when each are considered individually and then combined together logically.

      One last statement from f:

      “Technology is not going to help you find that treasure, but your mind and your body and your attitude changes as things change.”

      I like that. It sums all this up nicely.

      • Q “…..Can a little girl in India, who speaks good English, but only has your poem and a map of the US Rocky Mountains, work out where the treasure is? And would she be confident as she solves each clue, or only confident when she has solved them all?…..”.

        A “…..The little girl in India cannot get closer than the first two clues…..”

        Fenn’s answer, taken in context:
        The little girl in India, , cannot get “closer” than the first two clues……and, “It might just as well have been a boy from Waxahatchee, where my father was born, or an Arab kid from Marrakech,”

        ***It’s the same thing he’s always said, you cannot start anywhere but the first clue in the Poem and expect to solve the Nine Clues, no matter where you are at…..period. 🙂

        Makes more sense than “cannot get closer than the first two clues” saying, point blank, “you cannot solve more than two clues at home”!! I see no context, in the question, for this interpretation whatsoever!

        Yep, I’m still gonna work on narrowing it down as much as possible, maybe all the way, from HOME!! 🙂

        (at least, until he plainly states, “no one can solve more than the first two before going to the area.)

        And JCM, I’ve read all Shaun’s stuff. I get a different take on it…..but that’s for another day!! 🙂

        Good Luck to All Ya’ll!!!

        • Hi Loco –

          Yep, I’m still gonna work on narrowing it down as much as possible, maybe all the way, from HOME!!

          I hear you! Are you able to get out and search much from where you live?

          In reality, 99%+ of my time has been spent at home thinking and working on this… as much as I would prefer to be out in the mountains testing and (dis)proving solutions. Experience is a great teacher and it builds confidence; quickly ruling out a potential solve is far more productive than sitting at home for months, even years, contriving to oneself the perfect solution that is wholly or just partly wrong.

          Failure tends to either drive people to give up, trickle along at only a fraction of the effort they once moved with, or to rise in strength and with vigor of mind they never knew they had. No action in this chase mostly leads a person to become enamored with their own brilliance in their thinking and rationalizing, ever talking, never proving.

          I have been out several times to search each year over the last few years, though this last year I was overly busy and only got out once. Trips for me to search cost about $125; I think that is of some advantage, but not as advantageous as others have it.

          The first year of searches and half of the second were always all nine clues predefined and going straight to a spot… disappointment would always ensue… followed by where did I go wrong (I always accepted that I could be, OK, mostly likely was wrong before I went, so none of that “someone must have already found it already” business ever went through my head). I then would sit for some time at the location and think about how great MY solution was and where it could possibly be wrong. I had poked at the solution so much trying to find flaws and holes in the logic of the parts and totality of the solution before going; I was just too enamored with my own brilliance.

          I learned to be a little more wise after that. The following years I still went with full solutions to a final spot, but I started paying attention to and focusing on all the detail of the area as I went. I would compare my meanings of the clues to what I considered to be the clues once on location and then consider if I was just trying to make those things fit as possible meanings. I then began to consider other things that I would come across as possible alternatives by looking at things from different perspectives and in consideration with the things f had said or written about the chase itself. I would do this as I made my way to the final spot. And no, I still haven’t found it. 🙂

          But observing and taking in ones’ environment is always much more enriching and enlightening than being hyper-focused on a few singular things in an area, running with horse-blinders on to a final spot. Observing has opened my mind and thoughts to considering things that I was previously neglecting and ignoring as possible solutions, and some of these things have become much better meanings of the clues that have thus lead me to even better spots where I hope the chest just might be.

          One of these things is my current blaze; my daughter pointed it out on our first trip out as we were hiking along. It took me 2 years to come back to it and even give it consideration, yet it is an excellent meaning to that clue. I was just too enamored with my other thinking and solution way back when; just went right by it without a second thought.

          And with that, I am not nearly as enamored with my solves as I used to be, but I am more confident.

          Once again I feel the thrill of the chase bubbling up as the warmer months slowly creep near. I look forward to getting out into some insanely beautiful locations and with much more intent, taking in everything around me in the coming months.

          For those who are unable to get out into the sunshine of the Rocky Mountains and search a location, I feel pity for them and what they are missing. I hope these people who cannot get out to a search area because of distance or money will still take the time to get out wherever they live and experience the beauty around them, perhaps finding something else that can also give them the thrill of the chase there.

          I think that is why f said he wishes he could hide a chest in the Appalachians. The draw that would have on the large population of the East Coast, from Georgia to Maine, into the mountains would be massive. And that chase would probably be exponentially bigger than this one in the Rocky Mountains.

          • Hello JCM,

            I totally get what you are laying down. It appears you have done your research well.

            But no, I am not the searcher you describe.

            Chase, or no Chase, I cherish every day of life, each and every day. And I totally appreciate my surroundings when outside, wherever that may be.

            My searching is not hampered by distance or money. I took time, a couple of years ago, to drive my wife to Seattle, where we embarked on a two week cruise to Alaska…Now that was amazing!!

            The Chase is not my life. When I go to the mountains, it is to enjoy and “experience” them. I have done that many times.

            And no, I am not the one “dazzled by my brilliance”. When, or if, I decide again that I have solved the first two clues, or all nine, I will go again.

            I had hoped, in the interim, to join in here. I like to agitate Seeker to see what comes out and I attempt to stimulate others thinking, in the hopes of it aiding me in seeing parts of the Poem from a different perspective. And, IMO, you are correct, no one will discover the treasure if they can’t view their surroundings from different perspectives.

            It was enjoyable as long as other factors were not introduced. I see now that it will no longer be possible. It was fun bantering with you, JCM…..I will go now.

            Good Luck to All…..may the lucky one find it this year.


          • Don’t disappear on us Loco, stick around, or at least come visit every few days and put in your two cents. There are only a few reasons that I come here and post, you are one of them.

            I am now leaning towards selling the quotes and comments I have accumulated over the past three+ years, almost 40 pages worth of words from f or statements attributed to him. I am in review mode right now with it as when I was consolidating and formatting, I inadvertently deleted or didn’t copy all of my quotes into what has become a master chronological ordering of everything.

            I could use someone like you who knows the quotes to review and see if I am still missing anything significant, if you are interested.

        • My apologies folks.

          This (from the above post)……..

          Fenn’s answer, taken in context:
          The little girl in India, , cannot get “closer” than the first two clues……and, “It might just as well have been a boy from Waxahatchee, where my father was born, or an Arab kid from Marrakech,”

          …..makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I had “inserted” additional text, at various points, that was related to the context of the question.

          I used ‘angle bracket’ at either end of the inserted words to delineate…..apparently the system did not like this. It deleted the brackets and everything between them.

      • @JCM – Technology has assisted me quite a bit with drawing connections, write or wrong, so I disagree. I also disagree that scrapbooks won’t assist, write or wrong. It was Scrapbook 107 that shifted my thinking completely, write or wrong. I wouldn’t just discount (or forget about) them. I found lots of much better hints in scrapbooks than what I could manage from My War For Me (if you’re a true Fenn-purist, then all you really need is the poem and that chapter, so good luck interpreting the meaning of Thumb over Philadelphia without all the other great materials).

      • Nice JCM…excellent addition to the discussion. Also thanks for posting the Shaun Whitehead quote. I’ve been kicking myself for not copying that down before he pulled that section from his webpage.

        So here’s a thought….if you can’t get started without the first clue and there are hints in the book that could help, then doesn’t it follow that the hints (in the book) have to involve the first clue?

        Just thinking out loud.

        • Hi ColoKid – Good discussions you have got started here.

          I think many people look at TTOTC with some level of disdain, some certainly more than others. The amount of crazed and varied solutions it has produced has certainly lead to a huge amount of horrible solves and severe failures on the part of searchers. TTOTC is an abysmal failure in leading people to the chest from a statistical measure.

          Having said that, I believe it is an essential ingredient in the cake we are trying to bake. Yeah, I can already hear the disagreements and chant of “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem.” Opinions and beliefs are often as hard as concrete and not subject to change. When the chest is found, It is my opinion that this statement may rank very close to the book in terms of sources of failure.

          Not caring that others disagree with you or have a different opinion than you is hugely freeing. And so it is with this statement.

          I had two solutions prior to getting TTOTC, but once I read it, I threw them away and never gave a thought to them again. I quickly determined that to figure out the first clue, I needed to find the hints in the book for the first clue. Heck, f was preaching that at the time, had been from some of his first interviews, and continues to do so today. I had to restrain myself mentally from the allure of focusing and chasing after other clues because the first clue is absolutely important. Another point f has repeatedly emphasized.

          And is it just the first clue that there are hints for in the book? I believe it has hints for all of them because I believe that is what f says.

          Q. Dear Mr. Fenn,
          You say the clues in the poem are to be followed in consecutive order. You have also said the book holds sublte hints. Are these ‘subtle hints’ in consecutive order (in relation to how they help with clues in the poem) too? ~ Thank you, joseph
          A. That’s right joseph, you should start with the first clue and follow the others consecutively to the treasure. Hints in the book are not that organized. f

          Ultimately the question is, what are the hints that are in the book? There is not one hint in the book that has universally become accepted as actually being a hint. Failure at its max!

          I think that is why this answer from f is so succinct:

          Q. Are there subtle hints in the book?
          A. Yes, if you can recognize them.

          There is the problem, recognition. There is a long chapter waiting to be written about this topic one day, and I suspect it will also be one where people will wonder why they didn’t think of it.

          “My Thrill of the Chase book is enough to lead an average person to the treasure. f”

          I suppose we all like to think we are more than just average, perhaps that is part of the problem. 🙂

          • Don’t ya just love the information over the last 5 years!!
            JCM, as you know folks worked on the premise… poem and book. Many many chat about it, and fenn repeating a lot of it.
            Yet I still need to turn attention to the interview: A Columbus, OH radio Station aired this interview with Forrest on December 3rd, 2015. It’s HERE.

            Stating; … don’t need to read my book….
            This was a direct question to the book vs. poem. I mean, this is not a very old comment, DEC of 2013.

            So if all the information is in the poem and hint in the book unintentional, not organized, yet helpful if you can recognized them? … imo… seems to say a couple of optional ways of reading these.

            The poem will organize the hints if you know what a clue is? That still doesn’t say we can get an answer to a clue… yet.

            Maybe the text [stories] is not as important as the illustrations?

            The book help confirm what we think is a clue, if we already have an idea what a clue actually is?

            “There are hints in my book that will help you with the clues, but a clue will point you toward the treasure chest and a hint will just help you with the clues, if you can understand that.”

            Without the hint to help with a clue can we know how to decipher a clue? or are both needed? Without one you can solve the other?

            Over 3 years I attempted to stay clear of reading to much into the book… we were told all the information was in the poem, right? but for the last several months I have looked into the possibility that one is a must for the other… hence… the answers to the clues in the poem are only the book or the poem or both as equal.

            Then came… you don’t need to read my book comment. Needles to say, I was a bit baffled, because of the comments the book has hints.

            Anyways, it still seem to be the first clue that is the dart in the bulls-eye.

          • Hi Seeker – I am very familiar with that comment on the radio interview. I have listened to it over and over, listening to intonation, and I have also transcribed it into my notes.

            Radio Host: Does somebody need to read your books to find your treasure, or do all the clues exist within the poem?
            Forrest: They don’t need to read my book, but they need to read the poem. The book will help them, but they can find the treasure if they can decipher the clues that are in the poem.

            I like throwing out the morphed statement of f, It doesn’t matter what I say, it only matters what they think I say.

            Most get stuck in their own interpretation or impression that they initially have of what is f says, missing context, and end up reading far more into his statements than is there or twisting it to mean something not intended by f.

            f is answering a 2 part question, and gives a double answer to each part – nothing more.

            Part 1 – Does somebody need to read your books to find your treasure:
            – They don’t need to read my book
            – The book will help them

            Part 2 – or do all the clues exist within the poem:
            – but they need to read the poem
            – but they can find the treasure if they can decipher the clues that are in the poem

            Other quotes from f that sound very familiar and are consistent with this response:

            You can find the chest with just the clues, but there are hints in the book that will help you with the clues.

            If you’re serious about looking for the treasure, read the book, and then go back and read the poem 8, 10, 12, 15 times; and then go back and read the book again slowly looking for hints in the book that are going to help you solve clues in the poem.

            Q. Is it an advantage to buy The Thrill of the Chase and Too Far to Walk?
            A. There are hints in my TTOTC book that can help solve the clues in the poem.

            And there are more that could be listed.

            In a later interview with the same guy who asked the above question, we get:

            Host: It’s going to take some long, concerted research and effort.
            Forrest: …well it doesn’t take…you just have to think the right things. The clues are in the poem, and if you can figure the clues out, they will take you to the treasure chest.

            People are running around trying to find the meaning of the clues in the poem, some thinking that the specific places or representations of what the clues mean are actually in the book (and that only scratches the surface). f has said they are not; most people had no idea what he meant when he said that and just became more confused.

            The purpose of TTOTC is to help us figure out what the clues in the poem mean. And that happens by the book helping us know how to think the right things. No omegas, old trucks, field of stumps, or anything else in the book should show up in the search area as confirmations or after the fact confirmations, that would make them additional CLUES that help point one to the chest. And all the of the information to find the treasure is in the poem; nothing is in the book that will lead or point one to the chest.

            “There are hints in my book that will help you with the clues, but a clue will point you toward the treasure chest and a hint will just help you with the clues, if you can understand that.”

            Do we really understand that?

            Yes, there is no question in my mind that the TTOTC is an essential ingredient in the cake recipe. The first major obstacle of the chase to me is recognition of hints in the book, that is what starts the dominoes falling. Yes, I know, but what is the first clue? f says the poem is straight forward and not to overthink it, that settles that conundrum in my mind, but certainly not for others. But then it doesn’t matter what I think. 🙂

      • Hey JCM – fantastic post; one of the best every. Can’t say I agree with all of your conclusions, but I do appreciate your sharing. 4,5 or 50 searches? I think many of us are on our way while others have exceeded those totals.

        • I am putting my solve to the test this weekend, and very excited to do so. I will be flying to the US, so this will most likely be my one and only attempt because of cost. My interpretation of the clues is that the first eight can be solved either by a map or on foot. It does not matter. The last one though, must be accomplished on foot. By using the clues I believe I am able to produce a trail that leads in a very specific direction which always gets tighter. I guess we will see. I am lucky, the very good problem I will have is transporting it. It cannot be taken on a plane.

          • Good luck Hans,
            Maybe you should use part of this trip to move a little closer to the chest or maybe find a partner that lives here with your interests in mind. Which state are you searching?

          • Hi Hans – Should you find the chest, I would be most happy to keep it for you while you figure out how to get it back home. ‘-) Which is where, BTW?

            Good luck on your hunt and enjoy the scenery!

    • Colloid,
      I appreciate your write up, thought provoking. Would you be willing to post the quotes that indicate f trying to point to moving along on foot so to speak? I am not going to argue the point either way, but would like to reevaluate my thinking after reading the quotes that seem to point that way. I have tended to believe that this is true and that the intended audience were folks within say a few hundred miles of Santa Fe. I recall f in an interview saying something along the line that the treasure was in NM. I will find the quote if needed but it was an early interview that others have discussed.

      • Yes find where ff says the TC is in NM and post it in the
        Looking in NM section so we can find it after you post it.

      • I am looking for that quote. I believe it was an interview early on 2012? Or earlier. Possibly early 2013. Female interviewer from NM. I am sincere in my recollection (but might be in error?) and not trying to mislead.

      • Moby Dickens book signing, 11-2-2013,

        Minute 47:36 Q: Did you have 9 nine clues before you wrote the poem or did 9 clues appear after you wrote the poem?

        A: “Their contiguous. I knew where I wanted to hide the treasure chest so it was easy for me to put one foot down and then step on it to get to the next foot….that’s what I did. But I changed it …I don’t know how many times. I looked up the meaning of words. You know we really don’t know what some of our words mean, for instance what does the word several mean?” Discussion….”How the hell did I get on this subject” f

        F never said it was in NM.

        • Colokid, I’m not sure how that clip relates to what uken2it is trying to remember. In fact, I’m not sure how ff’s response relates to the question he was asked. It’s a curious response and prompts me to wonder about his use of the word “contiguous”, but that is another conversation…

          Uken2it, Finding that quote you’re trying to remember would be a total game-changer. Please do try to find it, but I think you may be mis-remembering. Maybe pdenver’s powerful search engine can track it down.

          • It was originally reported on the Today show that the chest was in New Mexico, but Fenn has since discredited that statement.

          • Hello Spoon – Yes, ff did discredit the statement that the TC was in NM. But, he has NOT ruled out NM from the search. I just wanted to clarify that for newbies.

            Perhaps the statement you referred to is the one uken2it was trying to remember?

          • Melanie,

            Uken asked: “Would you be willing to post the quotes that indicate f trying to point to moving along on foot so to speak?”

            I posted a quote about Fenn moving from foot to foot. That’s the only one I’m aware of but if he want’s something else we can try again.

            The question was about 9 clues. He explains it in a round about way but he does explain and I think it could be an important quote because he tells how he went about creating the clues and using words.

          • Ah. Now I understand what you were responding to. And, I agree with you that ff’s answer to the question is important, especially his use of the word “contiguous”.

          • Hello Melanie. I started to listen to some older interviews and I don’t believe I’ve heard Mr. Fenn state it’s in New Mexico. An interviewer suggested it and flowed with the thought until Mr. Fenn corrected him. Mr. Fenn continued with the statement of what we already know.

          • Hello pdenver –
            Yep, that jibes with what I know. The force is strong in your datatbase.

          • Hello Melanie. Need to clarify my recent statement to everyone; especially those new to the chase. The treasure chest is north of Santa Fe, in the Rocky Mountains and it’s somewhere hiding in Montana, Wyoming, Colorado or New Mexico.

          • Melanie,
            I am poring over videos as I write this. I thought I would have written it down on my computer notes but don’t find it yet. What I am looking for, I believe, is a video interview by a female reporter who assumed the treasure was in NM and stated it that way. Forrest may have just agreed and not heard correctly or is was a slip, or I am misremembering it. I am determined to find it. I had this problem recently and I hope this is not a repeat of that one. (I had a stroke a few years ago and memory is tricky at times)

            TOTAL FICTION as and example: So what we have is a treasure that is in New Mexico and whoever finds it gets to keep it, right forrest? Yes, that is correct.

          • uken2it – I know exactly how it is to feel so sure you remember something a certain way. But I’m pretty positive ff never said “something along the line that the treasure was in NM.” It very well may be, but not exclusively.

          • Thank you Melanie for sharing and understanding. I believe this is the second time on this memory. That is where it gets worse, when I don’t recall something that I already went through, the same mistake more than once. I was planning on taking a break from the chase at about the same time, Jeremy P came out with his story about his search in NM. I am going to give myself a time out now. I am sure I will check back in at some point.

            It has been a blast, a joy and some frustration but I’ll miss you all during my break.


          • uken2it, don’t stay away too long. I’ve enjoyed your musings and hope to read more!

          • Uken,

            As melaine commented, it’s hard to understand who said what… when a reporter is re-writing an interview. One example of this is :

            An important clue
            One thing Fenn will say is that most people are missing the most important clue; “begin it where warm waters halt”. When you solved this clue, he shared, and the others will fall into place. “If you don’t know ‘where warm water halts,’ Fenn said, “you don’t have anything.” It’s not much, but it’s a start.


            I personally take that with a grain of salt… I do not believe there is a video to back up the reporter’s quote. Now while some can give good arguments as this is the first clue… the fact is, reporters hear what they want has much as searchers do. ‘ NM treasure hunt’ make for a great headline…

            AS to the above report it sounds to me, those are three different comments fenn as made jumbled into a reporters quote…
            Folks ignore the first clue… If you don’t have the first clue, stay home… and the poem Begin WWWH.

          • Seeker – You are absolutely right about reporters rehashing and stringing pieces together of what f may or may not have said during a non-recorded interview. And what is worse is when several do it and insinuate the same thing – specifically that f has told them that wwwh is the first clue; makes you wonder if f has actually acknowledged it or not.

            Then you throw in Dal saying that early in the chase, f was saying it as well, that wwwh is the first clue. I have no interest in questioning Dal on something he says he heard with his own ears.

            I suspect that ever since people started questioning and arguing what the first clue is, whether or not it is wwwh, f has been very quite as the topic gets a lot of mileage on the blogs. The mileage now has got to be close to what Dal has on Esmerelda. 🙂

        • Colokid, appreciate your comments. I defined so many words in the past, I occasionally forget how much emphasis is placed there. It was fun to rewatch the ff interview – he’s a character to be sure. Also good to revisit several word definitions.

  13. Colokid, cool logic, I like the way you explained yourself, however if one has been there before and has memories of the place, it is possible at least in my case that his imagery (clues) evoke’s a feeling of Deja Vu, we feel something, then think about it and act with logic to solve this, one puzzeling problem keeps haunting me though, how can there not be a human trail nearby? I am paraphrasing an ff quote. 200 ft is close, 12 is the magic distance?

    Tom T, its just a nickname not my personality.

    • Tom,
      I’m not sure I understand what you said here: “…. one puzzeling problem keeps haunting me though, how can there not be a human trail nearby?”

      If I was to to hide a box in the woods, and didn’t want anyone to accidentally stumble over it, I would choose a spot that wasn’t near a “human trail”. There are plenty of animal trails, for instance, that could come into play or he might simply lead you away from a human trail, clue to clue, through the forest to a spot not normally visited.

      Also not sure I understand the Deja Vu reference. How could you design a clue that would: a) reliably evoke a sense of Deja Vu in all searchers, b) and have it mean the same to all.

      I would expect that the clues refer to visually identifiable landmarks. Just my opinion.

  14. Hello Colo, nice to hear from you!

    You are correct on all counts. And, you are preaching to the choir about looking at, and taking in context, all of his remarks about any given part of the Chase…..I’ve been saying that for awhile.

    I posted this in reply to Seeker—> again, as you said…..we know nada! As you and others do, I strive for as complete a solution as possible, given the resources available. Every piece of information could be vital, once you are in the field…..some searchers have walked past the other seven clues. It is imperative that one can recognize a clue in the field, whether it is a “place”, or not!!

    … Dal, Goofy, you and others state: 2 clues may be all you can derive from the Poem before having to go to the field. But, you need all the information you can obtain about the area beforehand (big picture). Then you MUST go to the area with the mindset of looking for ONE more clue, at a time. If you go looking for the chest, you will probably walk past the other seven clues. It will be a grind to do it…..don’t believe me, ask Dal!!! 🙂

    And again, yes, the more searchers who realize this, and espouse it, the “thinner the herd” will become……kind of a catch-22 for Fenn though. He wants lots of people outdoors, but he built in this limiting factor…. As you said: “going out to look with 2 clues under your belt takes a lot more self-confidence than going out with nine.”

    thanks for weighing in, Colo!………………loco

    • I am sorry, I just can not see the logic. As I have stated on several different occasions; I was able to develop a complete solve – 9 clues from 9 sentences. I did it all from my computer. I used only the poem, Topo, GE and a bit of on-line research… and a couple of hints from TTOTC and TFTW.

      Using a “Good Map” and GE I was able to see wwwh, canyon down, hoB, “Meek area”, Waters high, “end” and even the blaze.

      I am not holding the TC YET! I expect to do so this week-end now that the ice has melted.

      If I can do it, anyone can. Sure, I have made 4 trips so far, and had BOTG. Primarily I was hindered by ice in my stream….at
      My “In There” location.

      Please, new searchers…and even some older searchers, do not give up and feel that only two clues can be found from home.

      This approach defies logic to me. Solve AS MUCH of the puzzle as you can from home _THEN – put BOTG…be that after two clues, five clues, or nine.

      Best of luck to all searchers and STAY SAFE.


      • JD,
        You are absolutely correct. Anyone can come up with 9 matches from the poem to 9 spots on the map. I’ve done it repeatedly and, just like you (and everyone else) I don’t have the chest. I’ve repeated this process many times and come up with many different solutions that I thought fit perfectly. That’s why this approach is so insidious….the human mind can make just about anything seem to fit. It’s almost like an addiction. Once you have the “first clue” (fix) you begin to rationalize why something else fits with it. and before you know it you’ve rationalized a whole solution (your hooked). Once hooked it’s hard to get that particular solution monkey off your back.

        Trust me….I’ve been in Chase rehab many times…but now I’m clean…LOL.

        Go search and have fun but my guess is eventually you will realize that the perfect solve you thought you had isn’t working for you any more.

        Of course I could be wrong.

    • hey Loco,

      Ultimately I suspect the crowd won’t thin much because many will be very reluctant to drop their grip on a hard fought solution.

      You said: “kind of a catch-22 for Fenn though. He wants lots of people outdoors,”

      Fenn has been extremely careful with his answers so as not to discourage people. If you believe the 2-and-out-the-door (TAOTD) approach, you can hear this in just about every answer he gives. (I believe you even mentioned this a while back so I’m preaching to the choir again.) So while some think he’s dodging a question, I have come to believe he is being really careful to keep moral high without tipping his hand.

      But he has left sufficient doubt so that many will stand pat on the 9=9 approach, continue searching, and deny the possibility of TAOTD….IMO.

      • Colorkid – I would be interested in more detail of what you are considering in the 9 clues is not 9 spots if you are willing to share. Is it like 9 somethings or a twist to what a clue may mean?

        If you don’t want to expand on this, I understand.

        • JCM,

          Not sure I understand the question but I’ll take a shot.

          First, Im a bit of a traditionalist as to what is a clue so I feel the 9 clues are contained in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th stanzas.

          If I get your meaning I would say that all the clues are “places” but not all of them are named places on a map. Therefore, you can get 2 off a map then you must be BOG to decipher what to do next. I consider a large rock in a meadow a “place” even if it’s not shown on a map.

          The rest of the clues could be visual descriptions of landmarks that you will see or descriptions of the terrain you cross. For example NPFTM could mean that you follow a path into rougher terrain, and NPUYC could discribe an turn into an intersecting stream. These are just possibilities but there well could be twists I’m not expecting.

          He said the clues get “easier” so my expectation is that standing in the correct starting spot it may be somewhat easier to access what he describes.

          • Thanks Colokid – that was what I was asking about. I would lump myself in the same bucket as to generally what are the clues in the poem.

            Sometimes understanding the basic approach that a person has or uses with the poem gives the foundation for understanding what they say and mean in their comments.

      • 9 clues to follow are good, but isnt there a “LIST – TEN” good in there as well? I believe I’ve found the tenth clue by using the cypher outlined in poem. This 10th clue tells you were Forrest starts on foot and what to do when there. Heres hint…find cypher 1st!

  15. Pretty soon folks are gonna be sayin’ that you only have to read every other line of the poem and a map from New Hampshire will work just fine. The more mileage this Chase gets, the more people read crazy things into everything Forrest says. It’s kinda’ like the “Rumor Mill”….The more a story is told, the more off kilter it gets. Quite likely TLGFI is soon to be a real person who actually talked to Forrest and helped him write the poem….talk about mileage!!!

    • @ken, curious opinions. I look forward to reading about your solution after you have found the treasure.

    • All IMO, she did talk to Forrest and is a real person. She did not help write the poem as far as I can tell. I have researched so much stuff at one point I felt like I’d have a better chance at deciphering the Beale Cypher… Working on that one and think I have a solve… it hasn’t been cracked in nearly 200 years but hey, I’ll give it a shot… Still searching for that magic spot but it seems elusive… expedition unknown is a cool show if you like the treasure hunt you’d like this show..

  16. Solving the first 2 clues to find a starting point and then just go walk and make faces out of boulders in the countryside does not make me wanna move with confidence. Who needs a “Good Map” if all you need is one location to start with? It sounds like we are trying to bake a cake with just 2 ingredients.

    • @Oz10 – no need to make faces out of boulders in the countryside when there is a specific feature that is named for the face it resembles. See Washington’s Profile at Seven Falls.

    • Oz10,

      You said: ” Who needs a “Good Map” if all you need is one location to start with?”

      Don’t you need a “good” map to help decipher the first/second clue and find that starting place?

      Q: Did you have 9 nine clues before you wrote the poem or did 9 clues appear after you wrote the poem?
      A: “Their contiguous. I knew where I wanted to hide the treasure chest so it was easy for me to put one foot down and then step on it to get to the next foot….that’s what I did. But I changed it …I don’t know how many times. I looked up the meaning of words. You know we really don’t know what some of our words mean, for instance what does the word several mean?”

      Doesn’t this sound like he’s saying he walked the path to the chest trying to decide how to phrase the clues?

      For some perspective, I would recommend setting a mini-search in the woods and have your search buddy try to solve it. I’ve done this and the most natural thing to do is describe landmarks in a disguised fashion….no map needed but the spots/landmarks are “places”.

        • EC,
          Did you withdraw your AdvTC thread posts? anything bythe zipline posts? I was at the zoo, sun, academy, & metal railing in June of 13 . Never toured the north canyon. Yet.

          • @AviationGuy51 – I haven’t withdrawn any posts. I’m still just as exuberant about Seven Falls being everything up to heading south of the grave marker and “now you need a bus or car” to then drive up to the Shrine of the Sun. The thread is still here on the blog, it just scrolled from easy view and now you have to navigate to it.

            Good luck.

      • “Their contiguous. I knew where I wanted to hide the treasure chest so it was easy for me to put one foot down and then step on it to get to the next foot….that’s what I did.

        “look quickly down your quest….” Sounds like pacing to me… just saying.

      • Forrest, Did you intend for there to be 9 clues, or did it work out to be just right with 9? ~ halo
        Nice thinking halo, I didn’t count the clues until the poem had been finalized. Although I changed it a few times over the months I think the number stayed about the same.f

        Seems that the clues may have not been pre-planned. With the other quote above… does that sound like walking a path? or calculating?

  17. IMHO, Nine sentences, nine clues, write it down,, but they are not all the same type clues.

  18. So,
    The nine sentences in the poem are nine clues?
    Funny that the punctuation’s doesn’t match what is being said in the poem for continuation or closure.
    Strange that all the first letters of the first words in each line are caps regardless of the punctuation before them in the line above them.
    I am not an English major & failed it miserably in school.

    As I have gone alone in there
    And with my treasures bold.
    That’s right, I put a period there, at the end of bold – because it belongs.
    Keep in mind “(And) or (and) is a continuation of a sentence.

    Begin it WWWH
    And take it in the canyon down.
    That’s right, I put a period there, at the end of down – because it belongs.
    Keep in mind “(And) or (and) is a continuation of a sentence and a period ends it unless your Forrest in this case.
    Peace. ¥ 4th stanza all one sentence.
    SWIITIMGALMTFATSeek? Ah… the only question in the poem that he asks everyone & has answered.

    Read & understand the poem & you may get it someday

    If you read the poem over a couple hundred times & think for yourself where the punctuation’s should lie, then you may be able to realize that those that follow the periods at the end are wrong.

    I count 13 periods where they should be.
    one question mark? In the 5th stanza.

    Is this messing with the poem?
    Not with the words at all, just with our interpretation on what you think it is & what it should be.
    All in my opinion.
    Good luck!

    I see a few poofs going by the wind.

    • Jake;

      In my humble opinion, you ARE “Messing with the poem”.

      Forrest spent 15 years writing, re-writing and massaging the poem so that it said EXACTLY what HE wanted it to say…NOT
      what you think he me meant to say.

      Why should the punctuation be anything other than what it is?

      Punctuation is like road signs, it directs you regarding upcoming curvs or dangers. It tells you how fast or slow to go. Punctuation does exactly the same.

      Just because you think that you can take the next curve at 10 miles faster than the posted speed does NOT make it safe to go 10 miles faster than the posted speed.

      Putting a period where a comma was, just because it suits your fancy does not make it right.

      I have found that grouping some lines of the poem, where there is a comma, rather than a period has resulted in meaningful differences.

      “Don’t mess with my poem”, I feel is sage advice.

      Mess with the poem at your own risk.

      Best of luck to you on your June search.

      JD…and STAY SAFE

    • JD,
      I knew you would get a rise from what I said.

      “Punctuation is like road signs, it directs you regarding upcoming curves or dangers. It tells you how fast or slow to go. Punctuation does exactly the same.”

      Yes, there appears to be allot of signs in the wrong places.
      Buyer beware. Know & understand what your reading.

    • Jake, good insight, 13 period, 9 clues, 4 hints, finally someone is seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.

      Have a flashlight and eat a sandwich.

      Tom T

      • Thanks Tom,
        Although the light at the end of the tunnel may be a train.
        I don’t think I am messing with the poem JD.
        I am only seeing the poem differently & not changing it.
        It is what it isn’t, If you understand what you’re reading.

        My imagination says to ignore all the punctuation’s except for one. Also ignore all the upper case & lower case rabbit holes including home of Brown.

        Most think the cap B in Brown must mean something.
        I don’t think so. You just need to know where it is & not what it is, as Forrest has stated.

        4 hints Tom?
        I thought those were straight forward. I think the sprinkling of hints are in the 2 books although he didn’t rule it out that there are hints in the poem. Some seem to use a handful instead of sprinkle. Good luck to them.

        How is it that your effort will be worth the cold when it’s 90 degrees where the TC is?

    • Hi Jake — just a short rebuttal to your very first example:

      As I have gone alone in there
      And with my treasures bold.

      “That’s right, I put a period there, at the end of bold – because it belongs.”

      No, it most definitely does NOT belong because you only have a dependent clause (a sentence fragment). You can’t ignore the “As” at the beginning of the sentence. It would be like saying, “Since I went to the store but without my wallet.” It’s incomplete.

      • Never mind that jargon they taught you in school about English & punctuation.
        There rules don’t rule here.
        I don’t see a fragmented sentence here. It looks perfectly complete to me.
        As I have gone alone in there
        And with my treasures bold.
        I don’t think you know the meanings of “As”.

        I started a label company about 14 years ago & named it:
        As Labeled.
        I think this wording speaks for itself.

        Anyway, I was just trying to shake up the snow globe & see where the flakes fall.

        • Hi Jake — as others have pointed out, if you mess with the punctuation, you’re messing with the poem — something Fenn warned not to do. You might argue that you aren’t changing the words per se, but when you alter the punctuation you are alteriing their meaning.

          You say you don’t see this “sentence” as a fragment: “As I have gone alone in there and with my treasures bold” but that’s what it is. Grammar aside, the clause simply makes no sense by itself. Since you question whether I know the meanings of “As”, let me turn the question back to you: what purpose does that word serve in your version? As far as I can see, the only reasonable interpretation of that word in the context that Forrest is using it is to mean “since” or “because” (as opposed to “while”).

  19. Well, I’m not finished, so I may not right but try not treating all the clues the same, and some may be doing double duty, like telling on other clues, maybe not. That’s all.l.p.

    • Musstag,

      Just a hint, if it ain’t a clue it’s a HINT!, sorry I did not mean to raise my voice, hints should always be “whispered” and kept in tight focus.

      Tom T

  20. here is a monkey wrench for your gears…

    …suppose when f remarked that someone had solved the first/second clues

    he meant they had solved WHAT it was and not WHICH it was……

    ….there are many north of Santa Fe….

    necessitating the reverse cascade solution

  21. Do you think that someone who is sure about the location of the home of Brown could reverse-engineer where warm waters halt? ~Ben Raylor

    Thanks for the question Ben.
    If you are sure about the location of home of Brown why are you concerned about where warm waters halt? But to answer your question, sure you could and a few searchers might throw in some gas money for a percentage of the take. Good luck.f

    Is this why the little girl from India or any other minor cannot get closer than the second clue? First and second clue will give you the starting location and that one you can get on the good map but then you MUST drive to find your next location that will solve your 3rd and maybe 4th clue. There is some driving involved.

    Is this why also some have gotten the first 2 and went past the other 7? They had the first 2 clues right to the starting point but they kept going to what they understood was their 3rd or 4th clue following a map and not looking for visual signs (geographically or other).

    Is not far fetched to suggest that ‘not far, but too far to walk’ means some driving needed but the ‘not far’ is open to discussion. I understand it to be more than within the same town, not more than within the same state or just across the state border.

    Can we deduct that the first 2 clues will give us the starting point and that is WWH? Can we also say that home of Brown is clue 3 or 4 or both?

    I know this points have been discussed a thousand times before and I know some will say not to take ff comments literately but it kind of match some of it.

    • Forrest,
      Hello, way to sneak in there. It’s been awhile now and everyone is getting or already is going to their solves. All of us would like to know if still stand by you’re quote”I know the chest is still there and the chest is wet’
      PS I do understand the mystery answer in red…..

  22. Oz,
    You said: “Is this why the little girl from India or any other minor cannot get closer than the second clue? First and second clue will give you the starting location and that one you can get on the good map but then you MUST drive to find your next location that will solve your 3rd and maybe 4th clue. There is some driving involved.”

    That’s pretty much the theme that we were discussing most of yesterday. Now is driving involved? I can’t say for sure but it is certainly possible. I would speculate that you have to move in some fashion in order to “see” or understand HOB.

    I would agree that WWH is 1 and HOB is probably 3. Based on the quote you chose, I think HOB is pivotal…..if you had pre-knowledge it would crack open the path that you need to follow.

    Is there a large distance between points? I doubt it. The further apart the clues are spaced, the less likely a searcher is to be able to connect them within a clue set.

    Once again I advocate that everyone try setting their own mini-search with a friend. Issues like this become very apparent and you will gain insights.

    • Colokid, I am glad you liked my analogy. I am looking for patterns just like everyone else and yes of course I read your reply to me yesterday to how far will the map take us and I am taking that into consideration here. Everyone knows that at some point you must put botg there is no question about it, but if you wrongly suggest that you must do that from the starting location you may be misleading people. Why not keep adding the ingredients to the mix if you can see they are there in front of you. If you go out without a full solve or understanding you will fail again?

      • Oz,
        I am under no illusion that people will immediately shift their strategy and drop the 9=9 approach based on what I’ve said. Different people will be comfortable solving this in different ways. I’m merely throwing out what I believe is a fairly rational line of thought for discussion. It’s not original but I think I have elaborated on it a bit and I can’t see how this will mislead anyone more than any other concept that’s been put forward.

        One thing is sure in human nature…everyone will always like what they came up with the best.

        Best of luck in the hunt.

  23. @Oz10 – I’m a bit reticent to answer your questions because you’ve suggested in so many words that I am not viewed as credible. But for the lurkers that are watching with continued interest, I offer the following responses from the perspective of my theoretical solution of Seven Falls:

    – “Is this why the little girl …” — Yes. The third location, home of Brown, is likely to be a sign in the park for a Ponderosa Pine tree at the top of the falls. This is not available on a map and must be observed and thus realized while BOTG.

    – “Is this why also some have gotten…” — Probably. I haven’t seen Ranomafana, Haute Matsiatra mentioned anywhere related to Forrest Fenn, and I’m a reasonably good googler. I can’t say with certainty that others before me haven’t derived this, but I can say that if they had, they would be at least to the 9th location already. Without “knowing” Ramona Falls is the 2nd location, a person viewing the area and sending pics to Fenn would not perceive the linkage.

    – “Is not far fetched to suggest…” — Yes. He states this in the poem using the word “seek”, but not until that point. The word “seek” is translated into Spanish as “buscar”. This why he does the rest as “tired”. The full path is indeed too far to walk.

    There seems to also be some confusion about my continuing to imply the treasure is in Seven Falls proper. As time has continued, my thoughts and translations of the poem have evolved. I do not believe the final part of the poem suggests Seven Falls, but I strongly believe that the poem leads the seeker up to just after the blaze through Seven Falls proper.

    • Further to my comment about leaving Seven Falls, the line “So why is it that I must go” tells you to leave the park…

      “So why” translates in Spanish to “entonces por qué”, or a silly homonym of “park entrance”… is where you must now go and get back into your car or bus so that you can go (with tires) to the Shrine of the Sun, the 8th location (hear me now and listen good, your efforts will be worth the cold).

      • Hello E.C. Waters. Do you believe the entire poem should be translated or understood in Spanish to know what the clues are, which leads to the treasure chest?

        • @pdenver – No. I believe that Fenn has hidden the clues in several forms of linguistic manipulation, or puzzles in order to make his path work, including interpreting strings of letters as homonyms, synonyms, Spanish translations, etc.

          Once you shift your thinking that it is a linguistic or poetic puzzle with directions and locations, and not a literal “your hunt stops because the treasure is below you”, it becomes interesting that what he has seasoned with a hint, sprinkled with pepper, added to pimiento, all of these suggest “Falls” using synonyms, because Fall is a season. And Spanish can be used to further the homonym and synonym hunt, like “title to the gold” is “parlor” and thus Bessie and Me, or “seek” is take a bus or car… etc. etc.

    • EC. I don’t think I am the only one who don’t subscribe to the idea that Fenn hid the chest in private property, or that we need to learn a dead language to solve the clues. If he did hide it at Seven Falls then I hope you are the one to find it since you have put so much time, money and effort. I really do, I told you that before and I apologize if you took it as sarcasm.

      You have a whole section on this blog for the discussion on the seven falls theory. If anybody is interested in discussing that with you I imagined they can go there. There is another section for Poetry. If I start posting poetry in the seven falls section it would not be nice of me, I could get admonished or worst Goofy can ban me. On this section we are discussing the nine clues, where they are, how to spot them, etc..

      • @Oz10 – I believe I’m on topic discussing the nine clues here. I was just very succinct with you that I believe the chest itself is not in Seven Falls, but the that the first seven locations are.

        Whether or not you subscribe to this idea is your own choice, but it is also my choice to participate in this conversation, on topic, with information I believe in and have found. It is Goofy’s and Dal’s choice to continue to allow it or not.

        As for Spanish being a dead language… I have no printable comment.

          • @Oz10 – Perhaps it’s relevant, perhaps it is not. There is also a Malagasy translation in my opinion about warm waters “haut”ing.

            I believe Fenn did what was necessary and within his context to make the poem of clues work. Imagine how difficult it is to use iambic pentameter to create a clever map to a $1M+ 10″x10” location.

          • In golf I also find it amazing on a par 5 that I can get the ball to cover such a great distance and find it’s home in just six strokes. I’LL TAKE IT!

        • Not to sound like I am coming across wrong. About my golf statement.. You see I used to get 9’s and sometimes 10+ scores on the par 5’s. But I IMAGINED the ball going in the hole and made it happen. I feel you are full of knowledge sir and respect it deeply. Now its time to take all that logic and knowledge you possess to imagination land. You might be surprised what you can come up with. IMO

          • Ha I wish. If I had I would’ve use that as my story as of now I can only dream of it they say practice makes perfect so maybe someday soon.

          • @ACE – Thanks for the tipo, dude. I’m actually in Colorado Springs at the moment singing the Imagination Song. That’s how I was able to get the shots a couple of days ago of the Log School in Black Forest, the shots where I didn’t imagine the Good Housekeeping Magazine ad of a can opener over the top of its door, or the similar looking structure that look like Fenn’s one-room accommodations in W Yellowstone. The weather is nicer today, but still waiting to be sure snow is leaving some of the higher elevations. I’m going to experiment using BOTG with the meaning of “middle”, “500”, and “200” today or tomorrow.

  24. Driving v. walking?

    How far could an 80 year old man choose to walk? He may have been
    able to walk close to 20 miles, but would he have chosen to do so?

    Probably not.

    For my solve, I drive almost exactly 20 miles. From wwwh to hoB is almost
    10 miles exactly “A 10 mile float down the Madison River, now, for me, is “too far to walk” (paraphrase). Driving = 10 miles, using a boat = 11.3 miles.

    From hoB – “end” = 9.2 miles. I then walk only a matter of yards…about 200′
    actually, to the TC…IF I am right.

    I will know this week-end.

    Yes, the Crow and Humble pies are baking.

    Good luck to all searchers (including myself this time) and STAY SAFE


    • Good luck JD…try BBQ crow this time around. I have become fond of it myself…it has a certain pizzazz. And, don’t forget to have a little fun while you are out there!!

    • Hello JD. I enjoy hearing the excitement and stories of your adventures. Have a lot of fun this weekend. I look forward to the celebrations. 🙂

      • Not Obsessed;

        I have emailed you twice – no response.

        Is the problem you not receiving emails, or me not
        receiving your response?


    • You gave me a little heart attack. It sounded like you were describing where I planned to go next month (providing no further disasters befall me). I had to go back and measure some distances to calm myself down. I don’t think we are talking about the same place (read as: I HOPE we are not talking about the same place)

      I’m of the opinion that their is a facet of this that most people have not touched on. As much as I wish you luck I think wishing you wisdom and or understanding will be more useful in realizing it.

    • Best of Luck JD. Be safe. Men at our age after walk slower than these young’ns

  25. My THANKS to all of the “Well Wishers” – I ABSOLUTELY will have fun…
    that is what the “Thrill” is all about…THE THRILL and enjoyment.

    Each time I go out, I see some of the most beautiful country in the whole
    of the USA. I see deer, antelope, elk, moose, fox and even one bear.
    How can that NOT be fun and exciting?

    The excitement of possibly finding the TC, or at least learning something
    more about my area that will lead me closer – what a thrill.

    Good luck to all searchers – and STAY SAFE


  26. Yes and no. At a road junction, my hoB is about one mile down a road.
    At the junction, I go left, not right to the hoB.

    Have gone right, have seen hoB…may go back some time.

    Evasive, but accurate.


  27. Ahh, so by going left you are effectively going below the hoB whether that means south off or down from elevation wise. Still no boots on the ground until you reach no place for the meek? Very good sir, thanks for sharing.

  28. No boots on the ground until 6.7 miles past meek area at “END”

    I may be getting too detailed for my own good, but I honestly expect
    to find the TC Saturday, so if I am “speaking too loudly” – someone
    will have to move fast.

    Sorry if I sound like a “Know it all”, for surely I am not one. I am just EXCITED!


    • Nobody is going to know where you are and I’m in Florida so you have until I go there late summer. But your solve is making me think of what has been said here. How far into the poem can we recognize the clues using a map or visually?

    • JD said: “Sorry if I sound like a “Know it all”, for surely I am not one. I am just EXCITED!”

      Gosh, I SO get that! When you’ve been waiting and waiting for the right time to test your solution, the suspense becomes almost unbearable.

      Good luck, JD!

        • Your so lucky JD, you say your going out and searching and everybody wishes you good luck. I say…. I think I know where it is, and nobody really cares or insults me for my confidence. Best wishes and have fun.

          • Hello Kedar’s Mom. No need to worry about what other people think. Feel confident? There’s nothing wrong with that. If one wasn’t, one shouldn’t go out searching. Have fun in your search and I hope you get to celebrate. 🙂

          • @pdenver – Words hurt. I like to argue. Therefore, I need thick skin. Me in the middle.

          • Kedar’s Mom – I totally understand. I won’t search your spot if you don’t search mine.

          • Well Kedar’s Mom or KM or K mom,
            When we all talk we all talk and I know you been talking to Jake both on the blog and in his dreams but you;re trying to get us to wish you well and we haven’t had a chance to get to know you or anything about your solve. We all talk as though we are the one’s going to find it but I’ve watched you pick away at ideas here and not offer anything back. We have fun and we listen but most of all we try to help others. Feel free to really introduce yourself and talk about your solve. Also, JD is going out this weekend so yes, we all wish him luck and to be safe on his journey. You have only stated that you are going by the end of the month. Last month you where talking about “maybe” going to check you solve. Come on here closer to when you leave and I can assure you that we all will be wishing you good luck and be safe on your journey. We do not pick and choose here all of the true searchers become family and that’s why everyone was trying to help with Randy and also why we do not want to see anything happen to anyone else.

          • Thanks Tim,
            There is allot of truth to your words.
            We don’t have to look at her cards to see what she’s holding.
            The last clue in the poem seems to be the blaze & that’s why I suggested to get a bonfire going to reveal the chest. 50/50 – JK.

          • Hello Timothy,

            Sorry you do not know me well enough. I LOVE RIDING HORSES and I get annoyed by bad drivers. I have not commented much, because I do not feel I can contribute much. Even if I said what I think the nine clues are, nobody would care. I have never said anything inappropriate about someone elses solve. (Although I have wanted to)
            I have always said I/we are going…. since I first commented back in February, just didn’t know when the opportunity would allow us to go. It is a hell of a long ways. Many preparations had to be made.
            If we find it, we want the spot to be a secret, because we are leaving behind another small treasure chest.
            I understand everything, the little girl from India, the 200 ft searchers, the 500ft searchers. I have said this a few times: I was only getting one chance to go.
            Four cards and a Joker…….what’s in my hand? Call it fate or karma, I’m ready. I have shown my efforts to my closest friends and swore them to secrecy. YOLO. :+)

  29. On the LGFI, I believe that she can’t get “closer” than two clues for no other reason than the fact that she is a little girl. The Appalachians have areas that are kid friendly and even parts that are wheelchair friendly. Could this not be a hint that the area we’re looking for is a bit more “wild”? Or not completely kid friendly? I know Forrest said a kid could walk up to it with some assistance. And I believe that to be true. Is it possible that he is just reinforcing that statement with his choice of the word “closer”? Because to me the word “closer” indicates physically.

    If Forrest’s answer is an indication that only 2 clues can be solved at home and the others must be solved by BOTG then how could anyone ever go in confidence? I can see how that would extend the life of the chase with a lot of hit and misses. Like playing darts with Dal. I know Forrest wants to get us outside but does he really want us to run around like chickens with our heads cut off? 2 clues here, 2 clues there, everywhere 2 clues.

    Forrest followed up with 2 more examples, “a boy from Waxahatchee, where my father was born, or an Arab kid from Marrakech”. Again both kids. Are we assuming that since a kid can’t get closer than 2 clues, that we must need BOTG for the next 7? I think a better question is why did Forrest purposely misspell Waxahatchie and Marrakech? Does Forrest not have a “comprehensive knowledge of geography”? I think he does.

    I hadn’t given my two cents worth on TLGFI yet so this is all IMO.

    • @Ramona, my theory on Fenn’s comments and two additional hints are as follows:
      – I believe Fenn is astounded at the amount of blog space committed to attempting to understand this “little girl” theory so that the third location requires BOTG to recognize. How much more discussion is needed around it to say, outright, you have to see the third location to confirm you’re on the right path?
      – I believe the Waxahachie reference, although pulled from his father’s hometown, is a hint to have a look at “cow’s tail”. This not-so-seemingly coincides with the theory I have proposed that “title to the gold” in Spanish refers to a homonym of “parlor”, or Bessie and Me, where in this chapter, Fenn focuses quite a bit on Bessie’s “knotted” tail. Using Spanish translations of words, we can then hop through chapters for more pointers to clues, such as “tail” to “cola” (or Gold and More)… “cola” to “reajuste salarial” (or Father on the Banco), and finally “banco” to “school”, leading to the (brave and in the wood reference) Black Forest School where the Good Housekeeping Magazine can opener (with a very high confidence) can be found above the front door, and where it was previously a home and a religious experience.
      – I believe the Marrakech reference is yet another hint to look at Colorado, “red”, as well as close-by Ceuta, which matches the first stanza “secret” synonyms for “certitude”, or “Ceuta to”… leading to “Seven” and the Pillars of Hercules… which of course points to Seven Falls.

      • E.C, Marrakech is the French spelling of Marrakesh. Do the French play have any role in your solution? I’m just curious because I see you referencing Spanish a lot and I do find your connections impressive.

        • @Ramona – I have only played a little with attempting to connect through French. Malagasy is a developed form of local dialect plus French, but after solving the second location with a Malagasy transformation, I haven’t yet seen more connection to French. I could be mistaken in my interpretations.

          • Thanks E.C. I was just wondering and I looked at your twitter. Very interesting stuff. That picture of the log cabin is great. I don’t go on twitter or I would follow you.

    • Ramona, I didn’t see the original statement by Fenn, so I don’t know if this is a valid thought or not, but in the post by Goofy
      on April 18, 2016 at 1:34 pm, the word “doncha” seems untypical of Fenn speak… so the phonic emphasis may be an indicator of something … or not.

        • ramona, your record keeping and research speed is impressive. Thanks.

          Does anyone think the poem is strictly a TC chase map? Or that it might be a parallel of sorts to his memoirs in TTOTC,? Or some type of chimera?
          Stanza 2 sounds like the boyhood stories to me, Stanza 3 = Viet Nam, and Stanza 4 = Santa Fe years. IMO

        • Ramona, I’ve wondered that myself. Here’s a funny rabbit trail regarding doncha… F’s father was born in Waxahatchee, TX. Just north of Waxahatchee (a funny word to say, doncha think?) is a Mexican restaurant named
          Doncha nos on route 67. May Forrest likes to eat there. LOL. More likely, there’s a place in NM or Wyoming which translates from Spanish to something like it.

    • Hi Ramona,
      Those are possibilities but the premise of the question was: “Can a little girl in India, who speaks good English, but only has your poem and a map of the US Rocky Mountains, work out where the treasure is?”

      To me, the operative phrase is “work out” or, in other words, solve where the chest is, not get physically near it.

      Many things have been proposed as to why she can’t (age, stature, physical ability, intelligence, knowledge of english, education, lack of a proper map, no computer, etc) but Fenn has stated an absolute….”she cannot”.

      Since the complete parameters of TLG’s resources and background are not specified we have to ask how Fenn can be so certain as to state absolutely that it cannot happen. As you said, Fenn stated a “kid” could get physically close to the chest.

      Just my opinion there there is something else in play with the solution strategy.

      • Maybe the little girl from India has moved so this is no longer and issue for her – only for us?

          • Thanks twingem, I kind of feel the question of TLGFI has been beaten to death. But I just wanted to add my two cents. Because I feel Waxahatchie and Marrakech were misspelled for a reason. Which is in disguise an answer to TLGFI question. Hope you have a great day.

    • I suspect this is Forrest being tricky again. I suspect the only reason TLGFI cannot get past the first 2 clues is because its an instruction manual and the third clue describes an action to be completed at a location.

      For example you can know where the home of brown is and know what it means to put in below there but you cannot actually put in below the home of brown thus not meeting the requisites to “solve” that clue.

      Alternatively you could understand what you need to do when you reach the location revealed by the first two clues but clues 3-9 are contextual. You can still confidently know how you will respond to such contexts but are not able to understand how they apply to the situation until you are in it. Boots on the ground. Surely you at least have a preference in does “no paddle up your creek” mean go with the flow of the river or does it mean go against it on foot?.

      I have an express reason for thinking this that Ill not spill the beans on just yet because no one else has mentioned it to my knowledge, meaning that either I have a truly unique idea that might be a solution or I am very dumb and beginning to go mad trying to sort this mess out.

  30. Isn’t it amazing that 166 words, 9 sentences and 6 stanza’s can be interpreted in SOOOOOOO many different ways? How many different interpretations are there to these same words? Thousands? Hundreds of thousands? Millions?

    Who knows?

    What a masterful challenge Forrest has placed on our plates to feast upon!

    Thanks Forrest, for your skill, imagination and intellect.

    Thanks SOOOOOO much for “The Thrill of the Chase”!!

    a Fenn-atic


    • Ahhh… the “original intent” theory. .. and there are thousands of us, not just nine.

      • My “9” was sentences –

        Thousands, and hundreds of thousands of ideas or interpretations .

        What is the “Guess-timation” of participants? 65 Thousand to 100 thousand?


    • JD,
      If this search doesn’t work out it seems as though you might have a career in politics. Maybe mayor! You seem to be the blogs favorite (if not me then JD).
      Wish you the best of luck!
      God bless you, Be Save, and have fun.

  31. I do believe that you actually start, or begin, any journey, at home.

    There is no journey that you can take, no path, no physical search, that you can begin, without starting at, and taking action to leave, home. And the word home has many analogies and meanings like this, such as home base, home town, I am at home when I am with you, home is where the heart is, etc. You begin at home.

    I believe that the home of Brown is where you begin, in the sense of the landscape itself. It’s not the first clue, and it is only understood from the preceding clues, which are all directly contiguous, as he has said.

    And I believe that hoB is not generally on a map, which supports my idea which I expressed above about the girl in India (insert anyplace), that the understanding of home of Brown is outside of the poem and the map. You need to utilize an alternative source, wherever you are in the world- India, Alcatraz, Alaska, whatever…in order to understand home of Brown.

    So if you begin at hoB, then what of Biwwwh? In understanding Biwwwh, while I believe there is a place involved in this clue, a special place, that you need to understand from this clue, which conveys an idea, and is a real place- but you don’t actually need to go there. You need to understand the “there”, not physically go there, even though you could if you choose to. It wouldn’t help you with the chase to go there, as I see it. I don’t believe you need to. He can keep his secret where warm waters halt.

    I once put a question to Forrest, that he did not answer, of course, and for which I did not expect an answer. Someone wisely hinted at it in the thread above (I forget who, and I don’t want to search it). It’s the idea that the hints in the book logically might hint at the first clue, if they were truly to help you. In my question to Forrest, and again I do not have the exact wording, I kind of link the ideas of:

    A. There are hints that will help you in the book, if you recognize them.
    B. If the hints are really going to help you, and you’re nowhere without where you begin (insert a dozen ff quotes here about the beginning), then it’s likely or logical that the hints would help you with the beginning. Jumping forward to later hints is analogous to Forrest’s comments about it not being logical to solve later clues without the first one. You need the correct beginning.

    This is kind of like saying that if the clues are contiguous, then the hints might be too (but not highly ordered or structured in the book, which Forrest has expressed in several ways…)

    The thought is that I believe that it’s likely that if the clues in the book can help you, there’s a good chance that they help you with the beginning.

    And, as I’ve just mentioned, if there are two beginnings, 1) the beginning to the understanding the poem and 2) the actual beginning of your journey, in my view there are hints to both of them.


    • Halo, you get it, “It is not so much what they say, it is more what they (HINT) Whisper” just a paraphrase, now if you have been wise perhaps the hints in the POEM will confirm the Clues in there and the hints, if you can recognize them in the book will SHINE

      Tom T

  32. Interesting ideas, Halogetter, and I agree with many aspects of your analysis. However, I’d suggest that HOB is indeed on a map, and is crucial to the next part.

    As for the TLGFI riddle, I think it might help if people treat Forrest’s answer like the poem – read it over and over.

  33. JCM,

    In an earlier post you said: “People are running around trying to find the meaning of the clues in the poem, some thinking that the specific places or representations of what the clues mean are actually in the book (and that only scratches the surface). f has said they are not; most people had no idea what he meant when he said that and just became more confused.”

    Can you provide the link where he said: “….f has said they are not (actually in the book?) While I agree, I don’t remember every seeing such a quote.

    Also, you provided the quote: ““There are hints in my book that will help you with the clues, but a clue will point you toward the treasure chest and a hint will just help you with the clues, if you can understand that.”

    I am aware of this but lost this link as well. Could you please provide that too?

    Thanks, Colokid

    • Hi Colokid – Here you go.

      Q. You have said to read the poem and read TTOTC to help solve for the 9 clues. We all know there are many options to choose from regarding, Brown, hoB, wwh,and blaze hinted at in the book. My question is, “In the book, do you also, in a more subtle way, tell which is the correct answer to one or all of the above?”~BW
      A. No I don’t madam, sorry.

      There are hints in my book that will help you with the clues, but a clue will point you toward the treasure chest and a hint will just help you with the clues, if you can understand that.

      I took some liberties with the first one as to what I stated (I should have stated that f has “alluded”, not “said”) based upon this and other quotes where f talks about the hints in the book are to help with figuring out and solving what the clues mean. I also tie in

      “We are a group of avid elderly bridge players in San Diego who after reading your book hope to find your treasure. We are not into poetry as much as the memoir. We realize the clues are in the poem, but were wondering if there isn’t at least one clue in each chapter.
      Thank you for a great book
      Sincerely, Emily
      All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search.”

      and also the other statement above about clues in the poem and hints in the book.

      If a person logically considers these quotes, and thinks about them, then:

      – Only the poem has clues that point you to the treasure
      – TTOTC has hints that help with solving the meaning of the clues
      – TTOTC does not have clues in it that help point you to (aid one in finding) the treasure (exception – the poem is in the book)

      It should not be hard to arrive at the idea that specific things mentioned in the book, pictures, or whatever else that is in there are not things you will find while searching that confirm and help point you to the chest; that would make them clues.

      If a person is gathering together a bunch of things in the book, finding them at their search area, using them to justify and confirm the specific search area, and/or using them to help point them to the chest, then I would say the person is suffering from a case of confirmation bias. I have been there, done that, and learned my lesson.

      Sorry for a long answer to a simple question. These are all just my generalized conclusions (and opinions); I am sure many will disagree and think I am up in the night. That is fine, I usually am. 🙂

      • JCM,
        Thanks. I was just missing those references for my equally long list of quotes.

        We are very much on the same page in many respects including what the book is good for….and perhaps in the minority when I read some of the outlandish stuff people conclude.

        The fact that he said hints weren’t deliberately placed should have warned folks not to try mining the artwork (for instance) but perhaps that gives us the advantage. Ha, ah

        Real logic can be as scarce as a good solution.

        • It’s like Seeker said somewhere above:

          Don’t ya just love the information over the last 5 years!!

          With f’s analogy of baking a cake as to what it takes to find the chest, I classify all his statements about the chase to be the icing on the cake. 🙂

        • @Colokid – your interpretation of “not deliberately placed to aid the seeker” may be incorrect. He did not include the hints in the story to “deliberately” help someone, but to subtly aid and confirm the clous described in the poem. Perhaps he was also placing them in the chapters to amuse himself. Nevertheless, the hints are all there, and in every chapter. And in many Scrapbooks. And in many media presentations.

          In my opinion.

          • Fenn gives a word in his book that can help us understand the meaning behind the use of the words “deliberately placed”. The word “totem” is a set of figures that are “deliberately placed” in a specific order of meaning to tell a story or to convey historical purpose.

            Fenn is saying he did not put his hints in a specific order of history or meaning… but they are still there.

            In my opinion.

          • @pdenver – I’m in COS now. I believe I have quite a bit figured out, but struggling with the final interpretation and maybe the final step or two. I’m combing the book and poem for tips, but also looking at scrapbooks. With or without, I leave Sunday.

          • Hello E.C. Waters. Hope you get to figure out the remaining interpretations. If the chest isn’t found by Sunday, will you continue your search at a later date?

          • E.C. – I think I am missing some comments from f, can you point me to where he specifically says the hints “confirm” the clues or clous (sorry, my French literary skills are lacking with nailing that word).


          • @JCM – from TTOTC …

            “There are also other subtle clues sprinkled in the stories.”

            Guys – you’re being dix. I’m leaving the board.


          • Fenn is saying he did not put his hints in a specific order of history or meaning… but they are still there.

            IMHO , you got that right EC.

            But be careful, all good news is not what it may seem to be. But they are in there never the less.
            He sez so!! Right here

          • I just read at chasechat. Good thought.

            “Just take the chest and leave my bones”

            the original poem stating
            possibly having been “look quickly down beneath the stones”

          • EC.
            We [ the search community] have been back and forth on a lot of the discussion of hints in the book. Even though it’s interesting to get different perspectives about it all… when I read what you said, and have heard it from many others… to be honest, it’s mind boggling to say the least.

            ” Nevertheless, the hints are all there, and in every chapter. And in many Scrapbooks. And in many media presentations.”

            How in the world can all those pieces of information be hints?? especially in the book… fenn stated;

            “There are nine clues in the poem, but if you read the book (TTOTC), there are a couple…there are a couple of good hints and there are a couple of aberrations that live out on the edge.”

            Unless my definition is off, a couple doesn’t say to me.. ‘in every chapter’
            There are over 150 SB’s are you say there are that many more hints on top of every chapter in the book? I won’t go into reports or interviews etc… that could climb the count of hints far into the hundreds… dang, if that is remotely true… the word that is key must be “A” because I would be the biggest Donkey in the chase.

          • @Seeker – last one…

            Using Venn logic and simple set definitions: Fenn did not say ONLY a couple, or two. I’m a vegetarian. I also eat meat.

            Fenn manipulate words, toys with people, allowing us to hear what we want to hear. Why do you think he’s rich? There is an economic correlation to transparency and wealth. Read up.

          • Seeker, I see what you are saying and agree if all these things had clues it could be endless!!! But I still could see that perhaps a couple of scrapbooks or interviews have some clues or even hints sprinkled in them… Now we just have to decide which ones contain them…:)

          • Thanks for references E.C. and Musstag. I know them very well. I would like to find where f specifically used the word “confirm” when talking about the hints as related to the clues.

            I am of the opinion that “help you with the clues” and “help you solve the clues” is somehow different in meaning than the hints “confirm the clous” (clues?) (sorry E.C., I’m still lost with that one).

          • That’s OK if that is what you want to believe EC.

            Seems fenn talk is being used as an excuse to dismiss a lot…

            The book as reference… Don’t need to read the book…couple hints and couple aberrations… All the information is in the poem… Sprinkled…

            That’s a whole lot of fenn talk to stretch it to hundreds of hints… No matter the sourses

          • EC,

            {dal on April 4, 2016 at 11:27 pm said:
            Has anyone ever mentioned that you might be a bit twisted?}

            You said: ” He did not include the hints in the story to “deliberately” help someone….”

            Then you said:”… but to subtly aid and confirm the clous described in the poem.”

            Setting aside the fact that you are “messing with the poem” by making up words (clous), isn’t this a distinction without a difference?

            In my opinion, you are toying with a Kitchen Sink style solution where anything and everything is a clue. Others have espoused this but it’s not credible. The Kitchen Sink solve is like a mosaic….if you stand far enough away (and squint a bit) it looks like a pretty picture. It falls apart under closer inspection when you realize that it’s just a bunch of different colored, irregularly shaped thoughts that don’t fit together. Because they don’t fit the “artist” spends his time grouting in a matrix of useless bonding agent to hold it all in position. IMO people should be looking at a jigsaw puzzle analogy….the pieces should dovetail together nicely in a neat, and understandable way. I think one thing most people don’t get is that the poem design and nature of the clues don’t have to ridiculously obtuse in order to be difficult to solve. Simply and straight-forward can be incredibly difficult if we aren’t thinking the right thoughts…..Fenn’s thoughts.

      • @JCM – a clou is a location. A clue is a hint. When he speaks the word clou/clue, you have no spelling baseline to judge what he actually means. This hunt is based on a set of linguistic puzzles, “if you can understand that.” Confirmation bias, in the form of a hit-and-miss treasure hunt like this, is another meaning for motivating oneself to get off the computer, invest some banco, and outside looking. Without this confidence, there is no action. Your argument is curious.

        • “Well, you don’t know where it is,” he said, grinning. “When somebody finds that treasure chest, everybody’s going to say, ‘My God! Why didn’t I think of that?’”

          Q. Is any specialized knowledge required to find the treasure? For instance, something learned during your time in the military, or from a lifetime of fly fishing? Or do you really expect any ordinary average person without your background to be able to correctly interpret the clues in the poem? ~mdavis19
          A. No specialized knowledge is required mdavis19, and I have no expectations. My Thrill of the Chase book is enough to lead an average person to the treasure. f

          I am so far below average that when someone finds the chest, I’m going to be left standing there for a while trying to figure out the secret of thought. Then someone average will have to explain the solution to me because I will be really confused. 🙂

          • “When somebody finds that treasure chest, everybody’s going to say, ‘My God! Why didn’t I think of that?’”

            There is another statement related to whoever finds it will say “what took me so long”.

            Is it possible that is a very very silly concept that thousands of us are overlooking?

          • Yes. I believe so. Why? I believe ordinary is extraordinary. I believe extraordinary is ordinary.

            I think ff does too.

          • Body Talk

            It’s no place for the meek.

            NO – BODY, lines of declination

            “Me in the Middle”?

            SO – ME – BODY


            EVERY – BODY

          • 23kachinas, Very nice! Great thinking. I wish we could meet. I feel as if we’d relate well.

          • twingem – where do you make your nest? SoCal is my home. Hummingbirds are shy.

          • twingem – if my migration path ever goes through CO I’ll keep it in mind. Boulder is one of my favorite places.

  34. Well, this can’t be right… 😉

    I visited the Shrine of the Sun yesterday. To visit, I had to pay admission to the Cheyenne Mountain Zoo, so that I could then drive up through the zoo to get to the Shrine. I got a map with my ticket, and of course I have just scanned it for word associations, just in case.

    I’m now seeing the match significance of “purple” and “yellow” at the zoo (the zones are color-coded), the “middle” splits these zones and is a road to the Shrine, as well as other word associations to “porcupine”, “bald”, “naked” (mole rat), “ducks”, “alligator” (again), a “Griffon Vulture” (in terms of chest contents, griffin would be the combination of golden eagle coins and the dragon bracelet, the dragon is specific to Madrid/Spanish heraldry), “trout”, “raven”, “red-necked” (wallaby), “monkey”, “snakes”, “chickens”, “frogs”… but most significant, a correlation to one of the items in the chest, the Tairona and Sinu Indian necklace from Columbia. The chapter “The Long Ride Home” describes what it’s like to drive through that area at 5 miles an hour.

    I’m continuing on my same path.

    • Oh dear. This isn’t good news for the naysayers of the Seven Falls Theory.

      The Cheyenne Mountain Zoo keeps Mantella Frogs, native only to Madagascar. Another connection to Ranomafana, Haute Matsiatra (where warm waters halt) besides just La Buse. Sorry naysayers.

      • I see the connection to purple & the solve as well as the Mantella Frogs now.
        There is also rain in the forecast. Just kiss the frog & it will turn into Prince. The treasure is probably not near any entertainment complex. I think the real hint of riches new & old are waiting to hop out of the chest. RIP

        • @Jake – your allusions are offensive, cowardly, and homophobic, but also bullying. I have not declared it to be at the zoo, but the clues/hints/words from TTOTC certainly do align to describe what one sees on the path. Grow up, self-educate, and learn the message Fenn is trying to teach in TTOTC about people like you… “… people should know enough to just leave other folks alone…”

          • You left out quite a few descriptors of my self awareness like obnoxious.
            If I was a coward, I wouldn’t be speaking my mind here. I have no fear of anyone’s preference to what they are. A bully is only bullied by the meek, which I think is the 4th clue. But if the contiguous foot fits, then wear it.

            The amusement park deal has been very amusing for me & look forward to your ending result in the form of humility.

            You have the mind to put it all together, no doubt, but your talent & intelligence is strewn in the wrong places.

          • Riddle me this.
            Do you really think you would have to pay an entrance fee to find the treasure? Whether it’s inside or not?
            If you answer yes to this question, then proceed to tear up your solve & start over.

    • Perhaps this is why he mentioned showing the poem to a child…. (paraphrasing from some video content I once saw, maybe my memory isn’t correct) … “I think children have an advantage. They’re more curious and they’re lower to the ground, and their hands are just smaller.” I would love to find this video again. This impression stuck in my mind.

        • How about this fun theory, Geydelkon…

          What if Fenn just wants to leave his name behind as a memorial on the “Forrest Fenn Library” that he donates? “Bones” matches a Spanish synonym for “corpus” … a term that has a significant meaning in my wheelhouse of text mining. When he said he wanted to leave his bones behind in silent repose, perhaps what he’s actually saying is he wants to donate his books… whereas the whole intent of this is to be educated, leading the the schoolhouse in Black Forest. Maybe this is why we always see photos of him at his house in his library.

          Yeah, this is the path I’m choosing.

  35. Better late than never.

    Well, here is my take on the 9 clues and I have been on this angle ever since 2014. I have posted this thought on a few websites as well. This just my interpretation and nothing more at this time.

    Art is where its at.

    In the “too far to walk book” Forrest says that Art is where you find it. It has always been said that gold is where you find it. I know many of you have looked at my comments and perhaps thought what the heck is he talking about.

    So I have mentioned my avenue to the solve has to do with art. To me it mentions only 9 pieces of art. One piece of art though points to another. I had thought I had a tight solve several months ago but I kept questioning it over and over. Like a shotgun with a hair pin trigger and a 24 shell magazine, I tried and tried to tear it apart. Yet, it kept falling back in line. The first two stanzas seemed to be at face value but I felt something was wrong. I kept asking myself why is the rest of the poem so difficult and yet the first two stanzas seems to be easy. Then I started to think of all the art I had seen here and there.

    Many of you have placed links of your thoughts with many connections to Forrest comments and his life. I went as well to study the information you provided further. Some of you really know how to do your research. I am very impressed on what everyone has found relating to the chase. We as humans beings will always seek the unknown to the nth degree.

    Many of Forrest interventions via media and other websites in the chase does require to stop and analyze his words. I really like many of his comments especially the one I was born 100 years too late. Well, the first piece of art and to the last piece of art that I had identified is exactly 100 years. He said look at the big picture there are no short cuts. Well, he is right according to one mans depiction. I can go on and on and give you my interpretations of what he has said. Why, because its all about imagination.

    So I have been giving out many interpretations to what the clues are. I don’t know if anyone considered any of them. Yet only consider who Mr. Fenn was and who he is today. Do not cross outside the boundaries of his life because his life is what he truly knows.

    So perhaps you are thinking, does he know what the nine clues are? Well, these are just my interpretations and just like with all art there is only one common connection and that is the date and everyone has there say.

    Even the bronze chest is art. Its all about art.

    Thanks for your time.


    “An Indian Scout and A Saint”

    • @Geydelkon – I am absolutely interested in your perspectives on this. If you feel it appropriate, please do expand upon it. I have also explored the art angles on this blog.

      • What I have been doing the last few years may be all for nothing. There are many thoughts among many highways of the chase, I just chose the best scenery. It is good to know at least one other person is on the same trail as my wife and I. Thanks

        Quotes from Mysterious Writings

        “Oh, tell me wise sir, Where are the treasures? And the wise man replied, “Wherever you find them.”

        “It is interesting to know that a great number of people are out there searching. Many are giving serious thought to the clues in my poem, but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key. The treasure may be discovered sooner than I anticipated.”

        The “A” word is the key.

    • *Disclaimer* – this is my personal opinion

      I wish you the best of luck, but if it does have to do with art(paintings)….
      I”m out! Not a big fan and have no interest in researching art to the extent to which I’ve researched the other avenues to solve this poem.

      Best of luck,

    • Geydelkon,
      Could you please clarify?
      “its all about imagination.”
      “Its all about art.”
      I’m confused. Which one is it?
      Art or imagination?
      I do think that art & imagination does have a place in his writings including the poem, but I don’t see it as 50/50 or 100% one way or the other.
      I think the recipe has many ingredients & different amounts of each.

      • Jake, I really cant explain it without knowing the meaning. The last several years I have learned to appreciate some art. I would go out and look at art and I would just ponder on what the artist is thinking and what he or she might be telling me. I also try to look through there eyes. I think once I figure that out then that’s when I appreciate art.

        If you Google Art and Imagination you will find all kinds of things. Most places I visited I would wonder why would someone buy a thing like that.

        I have a degree in reverse engineering and I cant draw or write very well. Yet, I do have imagination and that’s where I find most of my answers. Imagine that, doncha think?

        • Well Gey, you have just been downgraded.
          If you can’t explain it, without knowing the meaning & dodging the question about what “all” means, then I’m wasting our time. I guess I will move on to the next politician that will not answer a straight forward question that knows what “all” means. Sort of an oxymoron. Yadon’t think?

          • Jake, its all good. It is just difficult for me to explain. I guess I need to drop out of the race in 2017 and head deep into the Pecos.

        • take Environmental Art as an example…Wiki does have a few examples.

          Some crackpot buries several Cadillacs in Tx, well they’re still there, (in 1980 Springsteen wrote a song about it)
          How long does information last? Assassinations, news stories, etc
          Let’s say another “creative person” builds a sculpture that only Allowed to stand for a few years.

          Google: stonefridge new mexico

        • If you can find where the Rainbow ends in Eric Sloan’s painting “Earth Flight Environment” you may have something..

    • I agree somewhat,Geydelkon.
      ART does play a part in the solving of the poem. I do believe so does GOLD and LAND. A third,a third,a third= nine.
      I believe and this is all my opinion that Forrest is trying to educate us on how to preserve our riches. Not the new way but the old way. A third to land,a third to gold and a third to art.
      Nouveau riches.In the end it is the hard assets not the paper assets that retain value through collapse and catastrophe.
      Forrest has built his empire around this. He is a very smart man… 🙂
      I’m ready to go find me some gold so I can buy art and land with some of it. 🙂 All I will have in my pocket will be $50 dollars.

      • Onuat, there are many who seek gold. I never thought I would be one but it happened. I would like to buy a small piece of land somewhere in the Pecos. I really miss New Mexico because it has a special meaning to me. I guess i need to save some pocket change as well.

  36. Each of us has a dream and interpretation of what we feel is an essential part of the ‘clue’ which will successfully identify and ultimately guide us to the glory that is FF’s Treasure Chest. ( I am also, however, not placing too much importance on “Art” that’s found on canvas as playing a significant role in my personal search.) It is:

    Family, Archeology, Aviation, History, Native Americans, Old West.Space and our Youth that personally reach out to me,

    While thoroughly appreciating and enjoying, although a rather iimited amount of geographical exploration; it’s still New Mexico, the “Land of Enchantment” where I believe the heart and soul of the Flyer ……lives.


  37. Has anybody used the punctuation and converted it to morse code to add letters to particular clues? (commas are dashes, periods are dots, question mark has dot, apostrophe is dash, etc. Where extra letter completes, does it narrow down key words or clues?

    • Hello John. I had considered this many months ago and asked someone who knew Morse Code. This person felt the poem didn’t hold any. Perhaps others may see differently.

    • Been there, done that… all I got from the morse code ‘was try again later’… oh wait, that was the magic 8 ball.

      Personally I think that would fall under, no codes or ciphers… but that’s just me.

  38. Posted above, JCM said: “… I would say the person is suffering from a case of confirmation bias”.

    Ain’t it the truth!

    I think the very first step in solving this poem is to understand what “confirmation bias” is. My impression is that most searchers have no idea what it means. And if they do know, they simply ignore it, and continue right on their merry way down their own yellow brick road.

    People see what they wanna see, because it’s so much easier than to think objectively and critically.


  39. As I have gone alone in there

    And with my treasures bold,

    I can keep my secret where,

    And hint of riches new and old.

    Like Forest has said, you people are way overthinking the clues. All you have to do is read the book to solve all nine. For example, the first clue directly relates to Fenn’s story, ‘River Bathing is Best.’

    Fenn’s “secret” is that he is uncomfortable being naked in front of others; so uncomfortable, in fact, that he’d ride his bicycle 20 miles one way (think, too far to walk), just to take a bath. He’d go alone to keep his secret and boldly bath where nobody could see. His reference to treasure is private parts, not a chest full of gold. Riches new and old — he went there as a child (new) and again when he hid the chest (old).

    The warm pool FF bathed is currently closed for bear management so it wouldn’t be wise to go there; in addition, it disturbs the bear habitat which is critical this time of year. The area opens back up in late May if you want to start from the true beginning.

    Happy hunting.

    • Yep, one year the nez perce trail right near there was closed to humans(thats whAt the sign read) until mid June due to Bears still hanging around that aRea.

    • He bathed in Ojo Caliente. Hasn’t that been searched over quite extensively? If we begin it at OC, what are you thinking is the canyon down? Toward Old Faithful, or toward Madison Junction?

      • Each year, typically starting in early August, brown trout make a migration from Hebgen Lake in Montana into the Madison River of Yellowstone National Park.

        The fish will run all the way up the Madison and into its two tributaries — the Firehole up to the falls and the Gibbon up to the falls.

        Because both the Gibbon and Firehole River have geysers along its
        banks, the Madison River can get too warm for the trout to feed
        aggressively during the hot summer months. The added warm water from
        the geysers together with the Summer heat often raises the water
        temperature to a level the trout are best left alone.

        During low water years, if the stream gets very warm, the resident trout
        usually become lethargic and feed little, if any. The best time to fish the
        stream is during the month of June, provided it’s clear enough, and from
        about the first of September until the season closes the first of November.
        There more fish in the river and the water temperature is usually ideal.

        During the early fall, brown trout from Hebgen Lake move upstream into
        the Madison River to spawn. Large rainbow trout follow them. Many
        anglers consider this the prime time to fish the Madison in the park.

      • oziboy,
        I consider the Firehole Canyon to be the one.
        Put in the Madison where Forrest put his dingy in & float downstream. How far? Who knows, maybe you have to float across Hebgen lake, down the dam, all the way past Ennis till you reach Three Forks. Darn, I went way to far.

          • Very well could be Pandora,
            I believe the Madison’s have the highest concentrations of Grizzlies in the lower 48. Brown bears come to mind. Although the data I have retrieved from the internet may be different from others.
            There are many creeks & pockets on the north of Hebgen & many have been searched very extensively from doing research here & other sites.
            Red Canyon, Grayling, Johnson Lake, Kirkwood, Stinking Cabin Creek, Beaver Creek & lets not forget Rock Creek which many searchers think is not doable by a 80 year old man.

            So where did Forrest & Donnie go when they were 16?

          • Yes Pandora,
            Way overshooting the mark.
            Just trying to make a point that you could still get there even though you went way past where you should have pulled out. If you happen to go down stream to the Three Forks area, you can still go back the other way to reach your goal.
            When are you heading out for your quest? I’m still waiting for the snow & ice to melt.

    • Very nice Pandora!
      I have swam there last year looking for the treasure for a few days.
      Now I just believe this spot is the beginning & not the beginning & end.

    • OR….If you using the TTOTC book chapters: Begin it where war matters halt. “Antique it” in the can, on down….


  40. Hi All;

    Forrest’s Weekly Post is already up.

    “Weekly Words for April 22nd, 2016 are as follows:

    *Snowy days are a searcher’s enemy”

    Not too much to bite on here.

    Good luck to all searchers and _ STAY SAFE


    • I’m not so sure, JD. I tend to think that each of FF’s statements may be a puzzle in and of itself. Maybe the word snowy means pure or white. Maybe an enemy is the opposition, so we are to go the other way at the white thing? I’m not seriously suggesting that is what this statement means, just suggesting that it MAY have a deeper meaning than what it appears on the surface.

    • I would search that spot too JD if you believe I guess that is what counts. Ok but somewhere I read you’d be looking in water?

      Hear me all and
      I see the word land there k just a thought.

      Happy travels 🙂

      • Oh I forgot to add it all up for you j/k I a newbie but seriously…..

        Hear me al land
        Your ef fort
        = land fort

        I googled that and I found off the Isle of Wight a land fort. Could the treasure be on an island like treasure island….. water around but not in the water per say. I myself am looking for natural structures like say an earthen fort. The meek shall inherit the earth!

        Ok bud

        Happy travels 🙂

        • Hello Sunny Day. I spent a lot of time considering Arizona Island in Jackson Lake (As I) as well as various forts – all before I’d pinned down WWWH.

          IMO, if you use imagination and general knowledge, you can obtain Forrest’s key and pinpoint WWWH on the map, PLUS it will tell you how to interpret the poem. As the clues unfold from there, you should find that you don’t need to look for hidden words etc. (although some things are certainly disguised).

          I believe this is why FF has laid such stress on getting the starting point right.

          Personally, I don’t think islands or forts are important.

          Again, this is just how I interpret the poem – others disagree vehemently.

        • I like your thinking here. Forrest does mention don’t mess with the poem, but what you did is kinda in the grey area. I love living in the grey area and I believe Forrest might too. IMO

      • I do believe that it is IN my stream…but the stream banks COULD count as being IN THERE also – with
        a stretch.

        “As I have gone alone IN THERE,”

        I don’t like “stretches” though, so will focus on my
        stream, but be aware of what is on the banks


    • What caught my attention there was the 3 y’s… why? why? why? there may be some truth to those who say Mr. F is getting annoyed.

        • Maybe f wants us to answer the question in the poem, “so why is it I must go”. Maybe the answer is the keyword. IMO of course.

    • S know e daze area searc her’s ene my.
      Naaa, got nothing here.
      Just uncommon sense.

      Hey JD, you going with the tribe this time?
      I have one very important question for you.
      Can you get cell phone reception in your search area?

  41. There is plenty there squirt. Imagine this; You have the perfect spot. However, the trails to the perfect spot are covered in snow. You decide to take the road less traveled to your perfect spot walking around patches of snow, climbing mountains, crossing rivers, slaying dragons and jumping from tree to tree. Now after you have driven across the country, battled through the forest for hours, tired and exhausted you make it to your special spot and there is another 4′ of snow and quite possibly the TC is covered by a mere 6 inches of snow. You have come all this way, you’re within 50 feet of your mark but you can’t tell where your mark is because of the snow. Mr. Fenn makes mention of winter and snow a few times, but enough to keep me grounded. I want to go out today, I wanted to go yesterday but I’m not chancing a long drive just to be turned around by snow at the special spot… I’m not a millionaire for crying out softly. lol.

    • Been there, done that – big time! Yes, it’s not just a waste of money, but just as importantly of emotional energy. It just makes the inevitable continued wait even more frustrating.

      • No doubt. It is hard to be patient with mother nature at times. However, she will teach of her irritation swiftly when impatience prevails. Mother knows best!

    • Where my spot is, snow is not a problem AT ALL! There has
      been very little snow all winter. Snow on the higher mountains surrounding my area, but none where I search.

      Leaving this afternoon. Will search Sat and maybe Sun.

      Hope to “Bring it home” Sat afternoon though. We shall see.

      Good luck to you and all searchers – STAY SAFE


  42. I had thought that the TC was IN a stream, snow would not affect it.

    Is it on the bank, where it could become covered with snow?

    Should I re-think a bit? I will know Saturday. I will look both IN the
    stream, and on its banks. Who knows?

    No snow in the forecast where I am going.

    Good luck to all and STAY SAFE


    • JD- Remember the chest is wet and also can burn in fire. I’m thinking spring thaw makes it wet and come summer that wet spot is dry.

      • Hey John,
        Did Forrest say the chest could burn in a fire & if so, someone please post the quote. I may have to burn my solve.
        I do remember him saying “exposed”. Well sort of a quote from an interviewer?

        • Hi Jake – I think this is the quote being referenced:

          He told me the chest is “exposed” to rain and snow, and could be scorched in a forest fire. He told me the box, which is just 10 inches by 10 inches, is unlocked—suggesting it’s someplace where it is unlikely to be toppled or otherwise thrown open.

          Granted, this is a reporter rephrasing what f said, but I think it is hard to deviate too far from the idea that fire could affect the chest in the rephrasing process.

          • Oh, That was the Tony Doukopil interview.
            Thanks, L1, JCM & Seeker.
            I wish Tony would have the audio or video posted online somewhere so we wouldn’t have to just trust what Tony wrote.
            I will have to throw this by the wayside & give it next to zero credibility unless Forrest actually reviews what will be posted later after the interview & agrees upon it.

            “wind MIGHT affect it, it’s PROBABLY already wet”

            Well, not much here either.

            Only burnt the lower left corner a little.
            Let me read the poem again. Backwords this time.

        • Mr Fenn, in relation to the final resting place of the chest, which of the 4 natural elements (Earth, Wind, Water, Fire) would mostly compromise it resting? ~ James

          I know what the question is. I don’t think earth can hurt it, under the right conditions wind might affect it, it’s probably already wet, and look at what fire did to the twin towers. Nature makes her own rules, James, so I try to not be absolute when talking about her.

          MW’s…. Later, fenn reminded, Tornado in the RM’s are rare but still happen… posted in the reply section.
          As said before by others, and I’ll repeat as simply a friendly… most comment, statments etc, from fenn have more than one reply… best to search for them all before jumping to a single conclusion.

    • Perhaps I am wrong but I think ff is more concerned about people’s safety searching for the TC than he is worried about the TC itself. He doesn’t want anyone to be harmed during the search. That is why he doesn’t want people searching in the winter. I don’t think he is giving us anymore clues with that regard.

      • *Snowy days are a searcher’s enemy
        *Urgency is not a good plan to fallow
        *Minding common sense in the mountains is good savvy
        *The chest weighs 42 pounds plus, best to have gloves
        *Sage says don’t try and carry it home in one trip
        *Your destination is small, but its location is huge
        *It will be there for as long as time has to come, or until you find it
        *Don’t be impatient, the treasure chest isn’t
        *Having a good plan is the best plan.
        *If you know precisely where it is you can probably retrieve it in any weather

        ND4peace… I agree. It doesn’t matter if there are hints here or not. It does seem fenn is telling us to use common sense.

        *Snowy days are a searcher’s enemy… common sense here IMO, is Unless you ‘know’ exactly the 10″x10″ spot… and head out to hoof it through snow, you may miss a critical piece that the snow may have covered….
        *If you know precisely where it is you can probably retrieve it in any weather.

        • Searchers,

          “If you know precisely where it is you can probably retrieve it in any weather.” ff

          Forrest is funning with us here. IMO

          How could someone know precisely where it is without having boots on the ground?

          Does this suggest that one can know precisely where it is without boots on the ground?

          Or is he saying don’t go in bad weather because you don’t/can’t know precisely where it’s located w/o having boots on the ground?

          I think that knowing precisely where it is requires boots on the ground, but, IMO one can know the general area of the TC w/o BOTG.

          • Ritt- I beg to differ. I’m working on a solution that puts me in 25’x25′ area with specifics on what to look for. Ive only used clues and cypher from poem. Going to search next week!

          • John, a 25′ by 25′ area in not precisely!
            It’s close buy not precisely. I’ll be waiting to congratulate you next week when you show the pic’s of the treasure in you hands. But, have you ever tasted crow? Just mix it with the poem and cyphers it will help it go down easier. Good luck.

        • “If you know precisely where it is you can probably retrieve it in any weather.” ff

          Don’t you need gps coordinates to make it precisely to a 12×12 foot spot? Anything else is not ‘precise’, especially if you can only locate the first few clues on a map.

    • Be careful sir. Melting snow brings strong currents. Happy hunting! Create great memories as it seems you always do.

  43. Snowy = “Frosty?” (Wasn’t Fred the Bakery boss kind of an’enemy’ to the young Forrest?)

  44. I have said this before. Mr. Fenn ‘ s poem takes us to a secret fishing hole of his, but the same clues take someone to the treasure chest. It is my opinion, and opinion only.RC

    • Could not have said it better myself.

      I am not a fisherman myself, but locals say my area is some
      of the best around. I know my site is “Pretty as a picture”, and
      it “Looks” like a great fishing spot!


  45. It is easy to see why Forrest would have chosen this place to hide his Treasure Chest. Forrest had said “With my last gasping breath, I was going to fling myself on top of that Treasure chest and let my bones go back to the dirt” …This beautiful grove of pines, cascading stream and the magnificent surrounding mountains, all create the “Perfect” place. If this is not the place Forrest hid his treasure, It should have been


    • You know JD, that was beautiful. I hope that while you are looking for the TC you also enjoy the beauty that surrounds you.

      Have a wonderful adventure.

      • I am amazed at the beauty of my search area every time I go there. This is my fifth trip, and I am always
        stunned by the beauty of my search area.


    • JD-
      You may not remember but Tony’s story that you quoted from above was originally written for Newsweek magazine. The links are on the Media Page of this blog. Remember that Tony wrote that…not Forrest. And Tony has a dubious record when it comes to accuracy in his stories. He is a sensationalist reporter. There were other quotes in those two stories about Forrest that were extremely questionable.

      In short, I am very cautious about what I believe from either of his stories or the video he did.

      Forrest wrote a letter to the editor of the magazine in protest to the manufactured quotes in those stories. Shortly afterward Newsweek closed its doors and became history.

      I’m not saying Forrest had anything to do with that but he was quite unhappy with Tony at the time and Forrest is not a person you want to cross. 🙂

      • @Dal – my favorite part of that article is where Tony says you can just skip over My War For Me when that, imo, seems to be the condensed version of all of the subtext everywhere. The article did have several insinuations, if one can understand what that means.

      • Good clarification, Dal. I think Tony did a lot of harm to this whole thing and his actions have always frosted me. I also believe he went on to disparage FF in some way. I don’t remember all the facts, but my conclusion was that I would not like this guy.

      • Dal,

        Do you have a link to Forrest’s response to the editor, this is news to me and i would be very interested in seeing this with my own eyes.

        Thank you in advance.

      • I am not knowledgeable about what exact quotes in Tony’s stories were misquotes, and Forrest has never said, as far as I know. I only know that at the time the story was published Forrest was unhappy about being misquoted and that means I look with a cautious eye at all the quotes.

        But come on…we are talking about a guy who told his readers/viewers to ignore the first and last stanzas of the poem. That alone should be a huge red flag waving in your face.

        I think we all know there is information in every stanza and Forrest has certainly said that folks ignore any part of the poem at their own peril so it doesn’t take a genius to see that Tony was taking great liberties with accuracy in his report.

        I only trust what I have heard Forrest say or read what he wrote…and often that is also confusing

        There are many false leads in the chase and you have to be smart about what you believe and particularly what you believe when others quote him…me, for example.

        In my opinion it’s best to learn as much as you can about him. Read as much of his writings as you can. Don’t ignore things he wrote that have nothing to do with the chase because everything helps us understand the man…and understanding the man is key to understanding the poem…I think it’s particularly crucial to be familiar with his brand of humor, his manner of speaking and his allegorical approach to storytelling.

        On the other hand, I have not found it yet so question what I believe as well…

  46. Dal;

    Thanks for the info. I had always thought that was an authentic quote from Forrest. If I am wrong, I am sorry. Hopefully, some day Forrest can set me straight.

    Again thanks for the insight.

    My apologies. if by quoting what I thought was an authentic quote from Forrest, I have misled any searcher, I again apologize


    • Hola Forrest

      I was wondering if you would clear up this statement for the record, it seems to me that this statement should not be allowed to stand if you did not make it. So for the record did Tony accurately characterize what you said here?

      Some people have suggested the treasure is under water, plopped in a river where Fenn loved to fish or swim. They are wrong, I know, for in a moment of exuberance, Fenn said so. He told me the chest is “exposed” to rain and snow, and could be scorched in a forest fire. He told me the box, which is just 10 inches by 10 inches, is unlocked—suggesting it’s someplace where it is unlikely to be toppled or otherwise thrown open.



      Oct, 11 2015
      I did not say that sir. f

      • Who knows how many reported-mangled things I have taken as “from the horses mouth”. I should know better, having been misquoted enough to be reporter-shy.

        It’s going to be hard to purge that one–I had taken it thoroughly to heart.

  47. Dal I concur with mis quotes from many media sources, recently I almost got nuked for repeating a mis quote about “his father would know where he hid the TC” so please address both of these and let’s be done with Mis Quotes, OK?

    Tom T

    • Hi Tom – I hope I don’t get nuked for prolonging this, but here goes:
      How did you come to realize the film crew mis-quoted ff? I guess it’s kinda moot point since it can’t be proved those words actually came from ff’s mouth. It still leaves me curious, tho.

    • Sure. Just looked up a pic from TTOTC and verified my location. Once you see what I see you wont believe it!!

      • John, We may be looking at the same spot. Does the first stanza give your place away? Is it in two states? Does it contain Indian history?

        If so, PM me… I think I have some good info about the area.


      • I think I know where your going but if all you have is chypers and clues how will you proceed with confidence

      • Lets face it John,
        We will never see what you see.
        There’s only a few pics in TTOTC that have discernible landscapes or specific markings in the background. Most if not all of the landscapes have changed drastically & the ones that are too close, are.
        I have picked apart each & every one of those picks , unless of course it doesn’t have anything to do with the treasure or I am missing something.
        Your right, I don’t believe.
        Hype without type.

        • There’s drawing in book that is 2 maps of area in one! One from side and one from top! Can’t wait to search!!

          • But there are 2, one too many X’s. The better clue is that the JF stands for the JF Duck, the type aircraft Skippy flew to the water high.

          • It is obvious, you are talking about the illustration on page 99 of TTOTC.

            I agree that what is illustrated is a “map”
            of AN area. The question is it your area, or mine? I have been able to match 10 distinct lines of the illustration with topographical features that can be seen on GE…How are you doing?

            Just because I can “see” 10 similarities does not mean that I have solved it all, it just means that that is interesting, or that I have a great imagination.

            Two many “X’s”? the missiles tails are not “X’s” in my estimation…but I may be wrong.

            Good luck in your search and STAY SAFE.


      • John
        1st Welcome to the Chase. This has been going on for 6 years, at least. John, everyone knows it’s pg 99 in TTOTC and that there is an arrow on the tree trunk. As I’ve said before, just about everyone has gone and checked it out to the point that Philmont is sick of us and are ready to make a point out of someone. It is very wide open, the cover won’t be til July or August and you shouldn’t take to many others.. just you and someone else to bond you out and get your vehicle. Please think it over, FF doesn’t give anything away for free. By the way, the other side is suppose to be Vietnam where FF was a jet fighter in the war. If it was that simple this would have been done years ago. Also, Dal and a few more have videos on you tube that you can watch. Go to FF “s poem on google and you can pick it yourself it’s on you tube.

    • John
      That area has been gone over by just about all of us including Dal. It is all Private Property and they have said that they will Prosecute to the fullest if found TRESPASSING.. They own 244,000 square acres. I’ve tried talking to the people but they don’t want anyone on their property that has anything to do with the CHASE. They are sick of it and won’t tolerate it anymore..
      Good Luck Bring Bond money with you

      • John,
        To be fair I need to let you know that they will take your vehicle also, that is what I’ve heard..

  48. IMO, it is important to “precisely” follow the 9 clues, as some searchers have stated above. IMO, it takes both research and BOTG to do this.
    “Have flashlight, will travel”
    (By the way, I’m trying out Instagram, if there is any interest.)

  49. Hi All;

    Back from Wyoming.

    What a beautiful trip. We left Friday afternoon early. Spring means migration time for elk and deer. Believe it or not, we saw over 300 deer, and 100 – 150 elk…all on the move. We also saw a beautiful fox, and five bison. W O W!

    At the site, MOST of the ice had melted. I have three “Special Spots” within a two mile circle.

    Site #1 – NO ICE. Was able to search it thoroughly, but with no luck : – (((
    I guess I can mark that location off of my list.

    Site #2 still has a LOT of ice. It will take at LEAST two to three weeks for it to melt. It is in a shaded area, and only ambient temp will melt the ice – not direct sunlight.

    Site #3, which was never much of a site anyway, proved fruitless.

    Five trips – LOADS of fun and adventure, but Forrest is winning 5 to zero (as is Jake)

    I guess I now owe you five Jake.

    Still excited, still exuberant, still blessed by good companionship with my step-som and thrilled by it all

    Good luck to all searchers, and STAY SAFE.


    P.S. not sure when trip #6 will happen – I will keep you all posted.

    • Glad to hear you had such a great time, JD. How wonderful to see so much wildlife! (I’m amazed at just how magical the Rockies are every time I go.) Already raring to go back for #6 I see! It’s amazing how the Chase – and the majestic scenery – does that to you!

    • That’s OK JD. You still sound like the trip was enjoyable. Keep working on it and get ready for trip #6. Glad to see you all made it back OK..

  50. I just have to pipe in, this morning at daybreak the sky was a beautiful blend of red and orange for only a brief moment. The colors excited me enough to venture down to a hot spring near the river that I had never visited. It was beautiful and so peaceful, all alone just me and my Gyrl. The natural spring was a perfect temperature for an early soak. The river was roaring with great strength in the background. It was then that rocks started rolling down, and what a awesome sight as two bighorns grazed ever closer, not caring a bit that we were sharing the grace of God together. The chills I felt were not from the cold but from the realization, that at moment, peace had filled my soul. Life was good and I knew exactly who to thank.

    • Sounds peaceful and relaxing……..yes , put the thanks where it belongs …..thanks for sharing strawshadow…….God Bless….

    • Thank you strawshadow…you drew me in to your “moment”…like a kindred spirit.

      • Ellen, I’m so happy we see along the same lines, it is a pleasure to share a moment, thank you.

    • strawshadow,
      “I just have to pipe in, this morning at daybreak the sky was a beautiful blend of red and orange for only a brief moment. The colors excited me enough to venture down to a hot spring near the river that I had never visited. It was beautiful and so peaceful, all alone just me and my Gyrl. The natural spring was a perfect temperature for an early soak. The river was roaring with great strength in the background. It was then that rocks started rolling down, and what a awesome sight as two bighorns grazed ever closer, not caring a bit that we were sharing the grace of God together. The chills I felt were not from the cold but from the realization, that at moment, peace had filled my soul. Life was good and I knew exactly who to thank.”

      I have been truly inspired by your words!

      I had promised myself to stay off of the blog, hopefully I can be forgiven for this one small indulgence.

      • JL, I’m the one who should be thanking you and everyone else who felt my emotion. Thank you all for for enriching my life today as I remembered your kind words while gazing off into Gods amazing creation. Certain indulgences are most justified. We each touched eachother today, one of life’s unselfish treasures.

  51. JD- I think we are referencing different drawings from the book. The one I’m using matches aerial view of area and from boots on the ground. Also I need to clarify for Jake; I did say picture in above comment and then drawing in another comment. I will be sure to keep this straight from here forward.

      • Jake- I will check with Dal to see if I can post my solve. Going to have to wait til after my search. Flying into Colorado on Thursday!

        • Yes John, it’s probably best to wait.
          Good luck in Colorado & try to stay away from amusement parks unless your taking your kids to have fun.

        • Hi John, I live in Colorado! I’ve tried to find other CO searchers to meet with but oddly they all seem to go to Montana! Not sure what part of CO you’ll be in but if you find yourself down in southern CO and wish for spirited conversation, hope you will reach out!

  52. Wonderful experience, shared with your gyrl – Wonderful moment in time, to be long remembered, a wonderful moment of closeness with your god. Y E A


  53. Thanks every body:) In a strange way I believe you were all there with me, I know I wasn’t alone. It’s a beautiful day for a search, hope to see you out there.

  54. strawshadow,

    The Painter exquisitely brush strokes yet another masterpiece upon his canvas in the sky. It is a truly beautiful experience to have read and felt your deep.appreciation. Thank you, my friend.


  55. SL, your complimentary words have brought me to the realization that, yes, there many ways to touch ones heart. Thank you for reciprocating, may we do it again soon my friend.

    • strawshadow – so many of your hints lead me to believe I know where you are at. If you are unsuccessful on this trip, I really would like to speak with you.

      • Spoon, Of course you do I’m in the Rockies, other than that I don’t even know where I’m at most of the time. None of my trips are unsuccessful though, my life’s a trip. I’m glad we think along the same lines. Keep in touch, I don’t mind talking. Thanks, have a great day, I’m going fishing.

        • Your morning adventure sounds amazing! Today I’m gonna watch the Nascar race and get ready to go.

          • It was KM, and with the best company a guy could ever wish for. Thanks for speeding that reply off to me, my head was racing when I saw it was you:)

        • Well, straw, if you don’t find the chest on this trip, drop me a note at the consecutive words with no spaces: thrill chase, and It is a temporary account I set up for you. I’m not sure if we are thinking along the same lines or not, but have a feeling they’re awfully close.

          • Strawshadow,
            Your head was racing…lol…when you saw it was me? Who am I, a simple country girl.

          • KM, Thank You, my message served its purpose, It brought you a smile. Are we not all of the same importance in life. A simple country girl is just who my message was chasing. Careful of NASCAR, it will make your head spin. Have a good day.

  56. A while back, I wrote a post (presumably unread since there was no response) but I think it has merit, especially to the armchair searchers and those who are not poem purists… and so I write it again, and expand it here…

    Basically, Fenn’s memoirs in TTOTC are separated into 3 parts … his boyhood years, his war years, and his Santa Fe years, and recounted in Stanza one as: I, gONE, alONE, THREE.

    Those three stages of his life are likened in IMP LIT to three novels. Fenn outright tells us that his boyhood years are like Salinger’s Catcher in the Rye. His war years are represented by Hemingway, AND HERE’S MY CONVINCER FOR THAT: The Bells Toll story is deliberately wrong, it’s the Farewell to Arms story, because like Viet Nam, it was a WRONG war in a WRONG place. We can deduce that his Santa Fe years are represented by Fitzgerald’s GATSBY, full of abundance, celebrity, glitz and great success. There is also Kismet (a play) full of rapid and humbling changes of fortune, the deaths of family & friends, and cancer. IMO, these temporal parallels play out again in the poem.

    Those three stages of Fenn’s life are described by stanzas 2, 3, and 4, which explains why it took so long to write and rewrite and reright it.

    I suggest the clues (in the stanzas) and the hints (in the memoirs) may be found in the stories to which they are attributed, not deliberately placed but naturally revealed. That of course doesn’t explain the path to the TC’s hidey space (yet), but I think it does explain a basic organization of the library of his life which even Ora Mae might like. Understanding the long view may open portals of imagination for mobile searchers, and we armchair ride-alongs call “shotgun!”

    I’m not sure yet, but I think HOB might have something to do with ‘aggies’ and a threshold or an experience. What do you think?

    • Hi OS2 – I don’t remember seeing your earlier post. However, I agree with what you’ve laid out here. For quite a while now, I’ve been convinced the poem’s structure parallels ff’s life. You bring up some thought-provoking ideas by citing those titles. An elegant and solid theory, in my book.

      Long before I ever know about Texas “Aggies”, my dad taught me those were agate marbles. I still have his collection.

      • Hi Melanie, Yes, “aggies’ was a nexus word for me too. As soon as I connected the Texas A&M story to the word ‘aggies, I jumped to the marble champion story.

        OMG, seperating the wheat from the chaff is soooo slow, but the bread is so delicious.

        • OS2 – Ya know, in a certain marbles game or two, the object is to knuckle down and strike another’s marble out of the string line but leave your marble as close as possible inside it. Then you get another turn with max advantage, and so on (“keep those knees neat!!!”). Like running the table in a game of pool, provided you always leave yourself (and not the other guy) a good lie/set-up. I think that’s an apropos metaphor for ff, street-smart from the get-go, testing the limits, setting up the play and usually winning – in childhood, during the war and in his art-dealer/archeologist days – to the point where he is now master of the game. Is the marble game yet another nod to a circular solution (cycle of life)? The string line defining some threshold comes to my mind. But what do I know? Nada. Jack. Big zeros. Omegas.

          • Yup, Melanie, Pg 26… valedictorian marks in Savvy 101 and Street Smarts 102.

            If the poem is a map, the corresponding clues in the book should advance the journey. All those those soft circular pastel strokes are pretty, but a seasoned eye might see a few guide marks underneath …. like “listen good” reads as ‘list-10’ to some, but a ‘list’ is a selvage edge, a border. Did anyone see that or remember the discussions on ‘Hear me all’ and the herma the border markers? Lots of borders and edges in the stories. Jello anyone?

    • Very interesting OS2,
      My theory has 4 legs of his journey.
      “Those three stages of Fenn’s life are described by stanzas 2, 3, and 4”
      Look deeper in these stanzas & you may just find another.

      • Jake, The architect of this rainbow must have studied under Buckminster Fuller and Antoni Gaudi. I have enough spidery footprints to follow without posters suggesting I look deeper …. just spin it out please. Thanks, OS2.

        • Yeah. Spin it out, both OS2 and Jake. I can’t wait to consider what either of you think is a good solution.

          • No solutions yet, probably never for me. But EC, I do appreciate your contributions, found them very informative.

          • Jake. Such a rascal, you are. You are hittin’ on my post-Renaissance to Baroque architectural and musical nerves. Not many can do that in one fell swoop. I hope to make your acquaintance at Fennborree.

          • @melanie – if you have a moment, please read “Life is a Dream” by Calderón. Hopefully then everyone can see.

          • Melanie,
            I seem to strike allot of nerves here, good & bad.
            Sort of like lightning, but without the voltage & amps.
            I would enjoy your company & conversation there, but it doesn’t have to be there.
            Not able to go to Fennboree this year.
            Only have so many vaca’s a year & the obvious option was to opt out & follow my dreams.
            I hope to swoop the treasure from it’s resting spot in June, but we all know that is very unlikely.
            Renaissance Baroque Architectural music is a treasure in it’s self.
            Maybe I can get some more time off to go there, but my CEO is OCD.
            I will rest on that for the night.

          • Hi Jake – yes, I’ve noticed your uncanny ability to provoke nerves! Too bad you can’t make Fennborre to smooth some feathers ‘-) Good luck on your hunt in June!

          • Thank you Melanie,
            Well, sometimes you will ruffle some feather’s as you smooth others out & visa versa.
            This is life as I know it. There is no perfect formula.
            I would like to go to my first Fennboree & meet allot of you in person. Somehow I know the conversations would be more civil & compassionate.
            Have fun & keep an eye out for the wizard.

          • C’mon…remind the CEO about all that OT you’ve pulled and “fennagle” a long weekend pass! My mantra: Never hurts to ask.

          • Melanie,
            If you worked for my CEO you’d be MIA.
            This is a man that doesn’t want to listen or consider anyone’s POV.
            Such a very poor example of a human being.
            Yea, I am sure we have all worked for this type.
            I’ve got a great career offer in Fort Worth that should be finalized after my trip to Montana in June.
            Sometimes people see you, who you really are.
            Sometimes they don’t & time to move on…..
            There loss, not yours.

          • “@melanie – if you have a moment, please read “Life is a Dream” by Calderón. Hopefully then everyone can see.”

            Well… I can see that Forrest is probably a fan…:)

            From Wikipedia…

            “It may well be that, rather than intending his audience to see this action as purely right or wrong, Calderón purposefully made it ambiguous, creating an interesting tension in the play that adds to its depth.” 🙂

          • @spallies – you’ve only scratched the surface with that one reference. Hopefully everyone will see.

          • @spallies – let me know when you get to the point where you’re also seeing Estrella as a translated reference to Fenn’s father. *The name means star (asterisk), but the word “star” translated in Spanish is also “principal”.

            Then when you actually read her lines regarding what she’s saying to her horse… and the whole locket thing… which signifies Fenn’s “lock of hair” in the chest… and the emerald ring signifies the Golden Age attached to Calderon…

            Folks, I’m write about the Seven Falls Theory and it landing in the Black Forest, probably to a public area around Detention Pond (a really big dele) and related to Kettle Creek, or quite possible to a private lot/residence owned by Fenn. Sorry, Jake. Study * up, *.

  57. Do you know what kind of Omega, I mean shoe this is? Knowing what that color is called and how the texture came to be known as Laghusen will help you find the treasure. Or not!

    Did anybody solve this hint? I think I finally made sense of it but I am really hoping is not.

  58. it was posted with a picture of a purple horse shoe
    in what was supposed to be a paper back edition of TTOTC book
    which is none existant
    some one posted that it was dal having a bit of fun ?

  59. Question for DAL:

    For the past year I have been expressing to searchers my opinion about the importance of FF’s description of the TC location and his desire to have his bones ultimately resting with the treasure. Now I return to read that this comment may not be credible? Did this all begin with the Newsweek article and the misquotes or is there a true basis or comment from F about this subject? Can you provide some history on this matter? Or I owe one big apology to all searchers.

    • I believe that comment about is bones is all true. He said that himself. I think he said, “I dare you to come find me.”

      • @smalliesonthecroix – translate “I dare you” to Spanish… “Yo Te reto” (see “Te re” and homophone to “tear”… translate “tear” or “cry” to Spanish (that which Forrest did when he flew over the funeral)… the hint is to Pillars of Hercules if you can find it.

        Ensenando a los peces. (Sorry fluent folk… Gringo at large).

        • E.C. Waters, I have say that your conviction in your solve is refreshing. Best to you in your search! Don’t forget to have tons of fun on the journey too.

          • Yeah, look… I get the whole “having fun” bs. Just read up and make your own way.

          • Wow E.C. Waters – that was really harsh. I was being sincere and have my own way. I’ve enjoyed following your posts deal. Sorry you mistook my sentiment. Best to you.

        • EC, this is in response to your comment on the asterisk… there was no ‘reply’ at that post.

          The Spanish stuff is way over my head, but Texas punctuation parlance for an asterisk might be a ‘Lone Star’ … on the Firehole near Kepler Cascades.

          • @OS2, I’m not a native Spanish speaker, so it’s also over my head. The best way I can describe this process it is to think of two immature gringo pre-teens sitting in a TX classroom pronouncing the Spanish words they see using English pronounciations. “Para” sounds like “pear-uh”. “Pie” sounds with a long i instead of “pee-ay”. This is the process I believe Fenn is describing and focusing so much more on Miss Ford than ANY class in his chapter “Jump Staring the Learning Curve” and “My Spanish Toy Factory”.

    • Big Skip-
      Forrest has told the inception story about how the treasure hunt began several times on radio and TV.

      When Forrest was diagnosed with incurable cancer in 1988 he decided that he would end his life on his terms…not cancers.

      Remember that his father ended his own life rather than have cancer ravage his body slowly and be a burden to his family. Forrest intended to do the same.

      Rather than die in a hospital bed with tubes stuck into him and his family watching him draw his last breath it was Forrest’s desire, at the time, to go to his special place, the same place the chest is hidden today, to end his life. There was no chest at the time. Just Forrest deciding that he wanted to go to this place that is special to him to end his life. Nothing about being buried there…just ending his life there.

      Later, one of his friends asked him what he planned to do with his collection of remarkable artifacts since he couldn’t take them with him when he died. It was this question that got Forrest thinking about taking some of his remarkable artifacts and some gold with him to this special place when he went there to end his life….further, he decided to make a game of it by writing a poem that would guide folks who could understand the poem, to his special place, where they would find Forrest’s bones and the gold and artifacts from his collection.
      The original poem, according to Forrest was much the same as the poem we have today but the last lines read something like…
      ….and take the gold
      But leave my bones alone.

      In the times I have heard Forrest retell this story he generally adds…but then the cancer went away and messed up his plans.

      This was the seed for what later became the chase that we have today…

      One or more of the interviews with Forrest telling this story are linked on the Media pages of this blog for your listening pleasure.

  60. K.i.s.s. IMO, too much on spanish. Trying to change TX drawl words to spanish, Visa versa. The poem is straight forward. If a small child could find the treasure, I’m sure F’s clue answers are all english.
    It’s a place safe for kids, surprising, exciting, deserves respect and reverence. A place we should have thought of out of simplicity.
    F said to think on and analyze the poem.
    Look up analytical thinking. Gives you step by step how to work a problem (poem) out.
    I’m not saying I have all the answers, but I feel I have a grasp on what F is saying in his clues enough to hit MY chase in June.
    Maybe F was telling us, in his Spanish stories, that if you don’t listen to him, you won’t be successful, you may as well keep your day job, making marbles.
    Imo, I see alot of chasers getting way off the original method that F said to figure it out, and each bend is taking and stretching the solves to almost ludicrous surmises. But to each his own. I’m not trying to poke a stick in anyone’s eye.
    I’m just trying to keep it as Fennistic as i can!
    Be safe, have fun!
    ¥Peace ¥

    • @Donna – I’d probably agree with you 6 years ago. If all one needs is Fenn’s TTOTC poem and a small child can find the treasure, what’s keeping the entire world population of locating a free box of $1M after at least 6 years… with ample media attention and frequent hints from Clarion himself? There just aren’t an almost infinite number of places where all the clues can line up to motivate action. What’s keeping residents of the 4-states of Rockies who are actively engaged in solving?

      Probabilities are problematic here. Logic dictates a reconsideration of what and how we are perceiving. “Twisting” becomes more reasonable after this much time. We should each try to think differently now.

      Please read “Life is a Dream” by and about Calderon. Everyone will start to see.

  61. Hey Donna, haven’t seen you post in awhile and have missed your presence. I always considered you one of the best of the bunch here. I agree with you that some people take things to almost ludicrous surmises, but I do not think that the solution is simple by any means. I think that when it is all revealed (which may be sooner than anyone imagines), many will say that it was beyond the reaches of almost everyone. I fear there will be grousing that Fenn crafted an unfair “problem”, misled everyone, etc., etc. And I think that would do a great disservice to a real masterpiece.

    I digress, but probably the biggest head scratcher in all of this is that 65,000 or more people would spend inordinate amounts of time – years! – and money chasing a $2 million prize. If he’d just given us each $30…. But that is the beauty of it, isn’t it? It’s about solving the problem, the intrigue of it. That’s what makes this great.

    Anyways, good luck to you and glad to see you back on the board.

    • Thanks, Spoon an E.C., for your always welcome feedback.
      The reasoning behind my madness is, I’ve realized the few clues F HAS given state, “People will say, ‘Why didn’t I think of that?’. And, let a child read the poem.
      As adults, we change our mode of thinking from childish fantasy and anything is possible, to more logical and realistic and synical. It’s extremely difficult to flip back to the child mentality. One of the clues I figured out was right in front of my nose, yet I refused to believe it was that simple! Our adult brains have forgotten the carefree wonder we had as kids.
      Imo, the reason a “few” have gotten the first few clues right, is that they went with a childhood mentality, very simplistic, but that was their downfall. ..they didn’t recognize the rest of the clues, or the significance of them. There has got to be a point where intuition and deep thought is used to get the rest of the poem’s meaning thru F’s eyes. It’s delving deeper into the “dumb down” process, which makes it a thousand times more difficult for an adult to access and utilize.
      F said, who ever finds it will have earned it. You have Harvard, Stanford grads trying to crack this. But F went backwards with it, the most difficult thing for an adult to do! F wants the finder to think like him, which is a very special gift in itself. To be an adult, but retain his child thinking while developing a cunning adult mind!
      Kids and adults all “think”, but that’s why we have to analyze also, to look at the 360 deg picture that weaves thru a juvinile/adult mindset.
      An adult may say, “No! That’s REDICULOUS! “, and it’s the right answer! Hence, F’s statement of “why didn’t I think of that?!”.
      We need to start thinking, and believing in what we discover and let the adult stop telling us it’s not logical!!!
      Just my juvenile opinion, hope it’s worth a nickle, since we are all in this together!

      • I think, Donna, that he actually said, “Show it to a child.” Like most of his statements, I have a feeling that it doesn’t mean what it seems to mean on the surface.

      • I believe showing the poem to a child will spark their imagination and bring them out of the “electronic coma” is all that Forrest is intending us to do.

  62. Geez, I don’t sub to any threads, on any site, so it takes forever to get caught up if I take a couple days off!! LOL!! Not much goin’ on, but I did want to address these points.

    @JCM, you said this:

    “Then you throw in Dal saying that early in the chase, f was saying it as well, that wwwh is the first clue. I have no interest in questioning Dal on something he says he heard with his own ears.”


    Well, it seems you have something in your database that I do not. Would you be sooo kind as to post a link to where Dal stated: that Fenn had said that WWWH is the first clue???…..or, if Dal did hear Fenn say this, early in the chase, maybe Dal could reiterate it for the benefit off all? 🙂


    AND— There are only a few on the blogs/forums whose opinions I give much weight too(yeah, I know, nobody listens to mine either 🙂 )…. But, Dal is one of them, when he speaks of Fenn. I may not agree with him all the time, but I do listen, give consideration to and weigh them carefully.

    Dal wrote: “In my opinion it’s best to learn as much as you can about him. Read as much of his writings as you can. Don’t ignore things he wrote that have nothing to do with the chase because everything helps us understand the man…and understanding the man is key to understanding the poem…I think it’s particularly crucial to be familiar with his brand of humor, his manner of speaking and his allegorical approach to storytelling.”

    As Dal states, this is crucial advice for any serious searcher.

    AND, that is what I was referring to with my remark that Dal has had more one-on-one time with Forrest than any other searcher….. He may know some of Fenn’s quirks, so when Dal speaks on Fenn…I listen. My remark was not inferring, nor alluding, that I thought he had “inside information”………SEEKER!!! :)

    • Loco-
      Let’s not start with the insider info issue again. I have no insider info. Forrest does not talk to me about the chase. I do not ask him questions about the poem or the clues or the chase. I am privy to the same info as everyone else…probably less since I rarely read any of the other blogs..

      I am just as curious as you are where I said that Forrest said that WWWH is the first clue. So let’s see what JCM says about that.

      It is true that I believe that WWWH is the first clue…and by clue I mean by Forrest’s definition of a clue…It certainly is not the first bit of useful information in the poem…but I do think WWWH is the first clue….

      However, I don’t remember ever thinking that Forrest said it was the first clue.

      • LOL!! GEEEZ US!! 🙂

        Dal, let me point-blank state: I absolutely do not think you have, nor have ever had, any insider info!!!!!!!!!!!

        (Seeker, I’ve said it before!! You should read, read and comprehend….before you post!!!) 🙂

        In a post on the previous Nine Clues I made a remark about you having more one-on-one time, with Forrest, than any other searcher. Seeker posted in response to me and used the “insider info” term.

        I was responding to that remark, by Seeker, in my post above. My opinion is, you have freely shared your perceptions of Forrest’s idiosyncrasies…..and for that, I am grateful. 

        • And I was agreeing with you Loco… it’s just so dang hard to say the words…lol… hence the quote.

          My personal feeling is fenn will not give anyone “useful” hints or clues. I could go back to the Useless clue debate… but I know you and I have the same headache about that.

          For me, this is why so many see clues in there sleep, every word from fenn, each an every report etc. While I see information that could be helpful in our thinking process… I don’t believe he’s handing out hints and clues other than in the poem.

          This is one of those post where ~ “IMO” is needed.

    • “Occasionally I forward parts of emails to Dal for use in his blog to
      add human interest for others who are in the search, but I never would if it made a difference or in any way might point someone toward or away from the treasure. Dal is also a searcher. ***I am determined to stay aloof of providing any additional clues that are useful.***
      Everyone has the same information to work with….”
      ***Asterisk provided for emphasis only***

      That pretty much sums it up for me.

    • Come on guys, I don’t think it was but a few weeks ago that we were talking about this one specifically:

      In your rumors abound section you write Forrest said start with the first clue WWWH you need to figure that out first – did Forrest tell you that was the first clue?

      That’s what Forrest said Clayton. Not my words…his…

      Forrest said :
      You need to start at the beginning. You need to figure out where warm waters halt.

      He said this because many searchers were skipping directly to home of Brown. That is the point at which many folks were starting. ..because (I suppose) it is easier. He was trying to get them to think about the first clues rather than the middle…

      Forrest said:
      You’ll never find it that way. You need to start at the beginning. You need to figure out where warm waters halt.

      And then I believe he went on to say that the clues are consecutive and we need to figure them out in the order they are, in the poem…

      It is in the second person information of my collection of quotes and comments of f, but because Dal is saying it’s f’s words, not his own, I respect them with a little more authority than Josh Gates saying it on the travel channel episode. But if Dal is questioning it now, perhaps I need to respect it at the same level as Josh’s statement then.

      • Look at what I said carefully JCM..
        Those are two different sentences..

        First sentence..
        You need to start at the beginning.

        Second sentence…
        You need to figure out where warm waters halt.

        It would be your interpretation that Forrest is saying the first clue is WWWH…
        That is not what he said..
        That could be inferred…but it is not what he unequivocally stated..
        What he stated are two different remarks.
        1. You need to start at the beginning
        2. You need to figure out where warm waters halt.

        These are two different statements and may not have anything to do with one another. He may simply be telling us two different things that we need to do.

        He did NOT say
        1. You need to figure out where warm waters halt because that’s the beginning..

        I hope you see the difference..

        Now…it’s possible that your interpretation is what he meant…it’s also possible he did not mean it that way..
        Yet another conundrum…

        • Thanks for the explanation Dal on the second part of the comments, but it is the question and your first answer that is my focus on this exchange:

          In your rumors abound section you write Forrest said start with the first clue WWWH you need to figure that out first – did Forrest tell you that was the first clue?

          That’s what Forrest said Clayton. Not my words…his…

        • Another thought on these two sentences.

          Forrest said :
          You need to start at the beginning. You need to figure out where warm waters halt.

          I don’t have it in my notes that f said this, so I guess you heard him say it. What if the period should be a semicolon and you just typed it wrong?

          Just a “what if”. 🙂

  63. I think that the first stanza represents a certain place/a certain confined space. The first stanza almost sounds like he is walking into a room. Of course, IMHO..

  64. Dal:

    Thank you for the history. Glad to know there is some validity to my comments. I shall continue to look for “That Spot”.

  65. this is just my opinion – that first you have to find the canyon to find where warm waters halt – to take it in the canyon down- where youll find the home of brown

  66. As a newbie to this treasure hunt, is there a place where the book is online to read for free?

    • @LEK – just buy the book. Some of it goes to a good cause. Otherwise it’s theft.

    • dont buy from Amazon, those are resales, often way over priced. Buy from Collected Works bookstore in Santa Fe, Fenn’s distributor.

  67. Oh, I didn’t think of it that way, you are right. So how much is it and where can I get one?

  68. Thank you pdenver…so the treasure has been our there for six or seven years now right?

    • LEK, Just my simple opinion, however, I believe you’ve underestimated a bit.

      • Now that’s just cruel, straw. You can’t play mind games with a new guy (and everyone else for that matter).

        Did you find it or not? Are you staying dry currently?

        • Spoon, that was not my intention just my opinion. And I’m not playing mind games, my words speak for themselves, I stand behind them. Thanks for asking.

          • Didn’t mean to offend, straw. Just still think we’re talking the same language, that’s all, and would like to get on with closing this deal while first giving you room to maneuver where I failed.

          • Spoon, absolutely no offense taken, maybe I should have included a happy face:) one question? Why would I want to maneuver where you failed, IMO.

          • Hey straw – glad you weren’t offended. Things aren’t coming off my keyboard exactly as I intended them tonight.

            As to your question, you cut me to the quick. Just because I may have the right answers, doesn’t mean that I have all the right answers or applied them correctly. Sorry I can’t be more specific without laying it all out, which I’m not willing to do in this forum.

    • LEK, I’m just guessing, there’s only one that really knows the correct answer. That was just my humble opinion.

  69. Hello to Everyone,

    I have been on this site for about 2mths. now. I have made a few comments here and there. As I have gave commentary to a few of the searchers, I realized I was in the wrong room. I was quickly guided and told my room is down the hallway and 6th door on the right.
    So here I am… I am ACE and I have a solve!!
    But let me lay something to rest before it even gets started. I WILL NOT DISCUSS MY SOLVE! So why am I even on here you may ask. After my solve I still have time before I go on my adventure(sometime before end of August I will not give date), I started reading some blogs on this website. Thanks Dal for setting all this up. I read many blogs that have dated back to 1st part of February. I started to appreciate all the efforts that many searchers have demonstrated. Besides Forrest, I have felt great appreciation to four of the searchers on this site. I will not give names. Search deep within yourself and take an educated guess if it concerns you. So I need to stop right there before I take this way out into left field. I am not someone that when Forrest says jump I ask okay how high? Instead someone who jumps then spends the remaining time figuring out why. Maybe then understand and avoid being told in the first place.
    With this philosophy I have read TTOTC, many blogs from searchers, and nearly every radio and television interview with Forrest. You see although I have a solve there still may be more. Much more. There were wrong turns that I made. But with each wrong turn, I corrected it. IMO and only IMO I was able to sculpt it in a way that makes perfect sense. Only thing I will say is I feel it is a masterpiece.
    IMO I have the solve, but am I the person for the job?? You see I do not take my spare time taking selfies, videoing myself, and I do not even have a facebook account. So taking on this task is going to be a huge hill to climb. I do not want to just go to the hidey spot as you refer it and not complete the story I feel Fenn intended. Yes, the chest has value, but it is more important to me that I take you along on this journey. What to do with the chest will be a consideration in a short trip down the road. This WILL be actual footage and no reenactment. Take you on this journey BEFORE I either do a victory dance or eat crow pie. Every checkpoint I take I will film, explain, and allow you to take in some of the sights. It is important to me that this gets done right or to the best of my abilities. I will need approval from the man that created this enigma himself, but after that hopefully if my solve is correct you will experience through my solve what Fenn’s vision is all about. I feel Forrest has put himself out there on stage for the whole world to witness. As to you Forrest, I feel it has been a very colorful experience. Well done sir!!

    I will do my best,

      • Thanks sl and vox. Yes vox I can see where it would be tough helping others while not giving away your solve. To all people reading this when I respond to you I will do it in the most honest way possible but be forewarned that I usually answer in a lighthearted.

      • Thanks L1 and Cholly. To an earlier blog I just hope that Forrest wasn’t into late 60’s music. They were passing a lot more than lyrics around in those days if that’s the blaze we are all in trouble.

    • ACE, I understand where you’re coming from. IMO, if you have a credible solution, it will be so precise that it would be sheer folly to discuss the details. And how do you know you have a credible solution? Again, my belief is that the answer can be cross-referenced within the poem itself. Some people think I’m grandstanding (or worse) for stating this, but I have reason to believe this is how the poem works.

      Good luck to you (and your film).

      • Thank you sir. As I said before I feel you are brilliant as are many others who blog here.

    • ACE, look forward to the film and your story! You inspire me to do better at capturing my journey. Best to you in all you seek.

      • That would not really help your search. First question directed to me. So, I WILL give this one the most consideration but I am going to wait a few weeks to answer. Yes I do have a helpful reply to this just worried that it is not appropriate to tell.

        • ACE,
          Thank you very much for your consideration. I have my own solve which does not require BOTG until the 9th clue. But regardless, I have a really good idea what the 9th clue is, along with its true meaning.

          Be Safe.

  70. Ace,

    Well written, I look forward to your presentation.

    “Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Boldness has magic, genius and power in it.”

  71. When does 9 equal 14 or 15?

    When one does not understand the difference between a HINT and a CLUE, HA HA!

    Did anyone get my joke here?

    I feel like someone on Facebook who asks if anyone is listening, or does anyone hear?

    The Poem is not about JUST the Clues, it is about the confirmation of the clues using the Hints in the poem, not just the two in the Thrill Book , Just sayin, TTOTC could be an acronym does anyone get this???

    Tom T

    • “The Poem is not about JUST the Clues, it is about the confirmation of the clues using the Hints in the poem…”


  72. Life’s tragedy is that we get old too soon and wise too late. Benjamin Franklin

    There is an immeasurable distance between late and too late. Og Mandino

  73. Voxpop, when are you planning on making a trip to your location? I know over the winter there were a few of you in here claiming to know the location and you all seemed to be somewhat on the same page. I would be worried someone would beat me to the location.

    • Soon, Gregorious. I will only be able to make one more trip – ever. I have to do it before the summer solstice, and if I fail that will be the end of it as far as I’m concerned. It’s been purgatory waiting since November and then being thwarted by the snow in March when only a few miles from the spot. And there’s still a lot of bad weather in the Rockies.

      I think it’s a good thing that so many people are ready to check out their theories and locations. There is just a chance that this amazing chase can be brought to a conclusion. You can feel the tension as you read the blog, and I wonder how much longer we can all go on discussing the same ol’ before being committed to the asylum!

      • Vox,
        Mind me asking which state you are searching? Not even a general area. Just which state?

        • Hello KevinP, although a lot of my effort is in Wyoming, that’s not the whole story!

  74. Hello All,

    For a guy who spent the last 25 years of his life living in Colorado, only to move to Florida last summer, I sure picked a bad time to hear about this (about a month ago, I’ve been lurking and researching this website ever since). I wanted to reiterate my private thanks to Dal here in public, as well as say thanks to all of the sincere contributors that take the time to come here and post.

    By way of introduction, I will start off with hat in hand. When I first heard about the treasure, I immediately believed that I had an idea of where it might be. (Shocker, right?) I am still only scratching the surface of all the info contained on this site and others, but does anyone know if anyone else ever publicly took the following location seriously prior to me?

    (You have to view it in Earth, or Satellite, or Birds eye mode to get the joke, and at least at the 1000 foot or greater scale. I apologize to Forrest in advance for the lack of creativity in the ‘hidey place’ of my first solve)'39.1%22N+104%C2%B050'27.0%22W/@37.5108535,-104.85831,5340m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0

    Or simply, 37°30’39.1″N 104°50’27.0″W

    And I will use that as a segue to a question. Google Maps drills down through successive scales – among which are a 500 foot, and then down to a 200 foot scale in the legend at the bottom.

    Does anyone think that the Forrest quotes of saying that someone was within 500 feet of the treasure, and then 200 feet of the treasure, might be referring to someone only zooming in to this scale on a Google Maps search?

    (P.S. – My screen name has been ‘WhereItsWarm” for many years. Long before I had any idea that waters of that variety could literally, or figuratively halt)

    • WIW, that looks like a good blaze and look what happens when you look quickly down, but tarry scant.

      I wouldn’t discount anything but one good theory is that the chest maybe about 200 to 500 feet from either a road or trail and those who went by there (or mentioned it on an email) didn’t know they were so close.

        • Fenn tells us to use our imagination…

          Whether this is the chest’s hiding place or not, I wouldn’t immediately discount such a large ‘in your face’ land formation.
          Yes the potential is there, but I also agree w/ Tom T on the dynamics of the poem………..
          “The Poem is not about JUST the Clues, it is about the confirmation of the clues using the Hints in the poem”

          Aren’t all of us sitting at home ‘looking down’? _we are using imagery much the same way Fenn flew for decades, all over this country

      • hey Oz
        Yes you can. This poem is a little bit of a ——.and if you fail, well welcome to our list. I just wish they would move Il for me It’s a little bit of a cost to keep going on.. But I will

  75. Mysterious Writings,

    Heck Shannon, you just widened one of my largest fault lines. In my haste to get back to the helicopter and leave that place, my effort was expended trying to remember the inscription, and I repeated it over and over. In that process the soldier’s name was not retained.

    All I remember is that his last name had an x in it. Is it strange that I would remember that? But there are no regrets because now he is my personal Unknown Soldier whose lack of identity stands as a metaphor for all men and women who fell in that ugly war and have now faded from our memory. f

  76. @WIW to funny that you only learned about the Chase and have moved away, I bet you know CO real well. I was flying back to CA this past summer just as the sun was going down over the Rockies and the AC was above KS or NE and I looked out the window to see what I imagined to be Spanish Peaks and distant lights of SF and AB! On my list of places to eXplore for sure….Thanks and welcome to the Chase and this blog.

  77. @Goldknight, I had read that passage just the day before, and ‘walked right past’ the reference to the letter X.
    @Cholly, eXplore, huh? All capitalizations are intententional imho 🙂

    Btw, that letter does play a small role in the ever evolving Solve #2. Ill be coming back to Denver this summer to visit relatives and try it out.

  78. Some time ago I thought I heard ff say he would not put an X on the map, but since nature already did it for us, it might be worth investigating, and since the least mentioned state is in the mix, it just seems logical. IMO Colorado is and always has been in the MIXXX>

    Tom T

    • I would be interested in reading/listening to that quote if anyone knows the source

        • Hey Tom,
          The only thing that I have heard is FF saying that the Map Publisher asked if he wanted an “X” on the map and he told them “NO”. BUT, I really didn’t understand that as the same Map Company alleviated CANADA and he didn’t know that they were going to do that!!! HMMMM, they asked FF about the “X” on the Map but didn’t talk to FF “at all” about taking Canada out of the CHASE.
          VERY VERY INTERESTING….That was a LARGE portion of the Rocky Mountains GONE FROM THE CHASE. “GFTC”

          • At the end of TFTW, the last words are:
            We’ve recently been turned on to the map and atlas products of Benchmark Maps, and have had fun partnering with them to produce this treasure map. Their unique styles of cartography speak to our shared spirit of exploration. I declined their invitation to put an X on the map, but will admit that it is there in spirit.

            This was one of the reason I thought the chest was somewhere in (Cedar Mountain) Spirit Mountain, Cody WY.

  79. I need some help… Does anyone know if it rained last Tuesday? Just kidding. Does anyone remember any scrapbooks that deals with lakes or pictures of lakes in ttotc? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!

  80. When I read the poem it sounds like clue one is stanza one and clue two is stanzas two and three. Clue three is the blaze stanza, and clues four through nine are in stanzas five and six. I think that is why the girl from India cannot get past the first two clues…she can find the creek on the map, but cannot locate the blaze without being there. Stanzas five and six do you no good until after you have found the blaze…this seems logical to me anyway…I think I might know what clue one is, since I spent all night and all of today reading all the archives….it seems several people have mentioned it as a possibility, but then they don’t apply it to the same location as I am thinking of. If I am correct, the second clue would be the entire trail to the blaze, starting where warm waters halt, and taking you down the canyon, below the home of Brown, and ever left until you reach the heavy loads and water high of the creek. All of this can be found on a map or Google earth…even from India. What does everyone else think? Where do warm waters halt for you guys? For me, with Forrest Fenns description of lots of places, I am thinking the Continental divide…which has also been mentioned by several searchers in the past in the archives. From my meteorology classes, I remember warm waters of the Pacific flow towards the East, cooling as they rise with the elevation change that the Cascades and then the Rockies cause. As they rise they cool, dumping their moisture at the top of the Continental divide. So now, if that is correct, where does stanza one point to along the divide…hmmm, more work to do. This is so much fun! It’s one great big unsolved mystery!!

    • According to Capt. W. F. Raynold — who lead an 1860 expedition which including Jim Bridger — “The pass [Raynolds’ Pass] is so level that it is difficult to locate the exact point at which the waters divide. I named it Low Pass and deem it to be one of the most remarkable and important features of the topography of the Rocky Mountains.”

      There is a historical marker (blaze?) on I-287 which tells the reader/traveler to look south (down?) over the Continental Divide. In reality, Raynolds’ Pass is located right on the Idaho/Montana border… barely on the Montana side.

  81. I consider “water high” to be glaciers in the higher elevation; feeding the entire ecosystem of the area. One could argue it could also be a geyser — think Old Faithful which would fit the description of both “heavy loads” and “water high” (in the air). I won’t tell you my crazy theory for heavy loads. I also strongly believe the blaze can be clearly seen using Google Earth.

  82. I second that Forrest.

    We realize that you’d like to persuade people to get out in nature and BOTG is way… but I believe that most will still venture out believing they have the complete solve.

    The little Girl in India has always weight heavily on me – it’s paradoxical when assuming she has the same info we all have.

    Thanks for any clarification.

  83. Ace, make sure your searching in New Mexico so you are close to FF when you find the TC…lol…answer this what is your blaze does it have “White color” on part of it?…IMO the blaze is in FF backyard

    • Hello Woody. Does your statement imply that the blaze looks like something in Mr. Fenn’s backyard or the blaze is “in” Mr. Fenn’s backyard?

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