Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Eleven


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695 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Eleven

    • Hi Mike, this is Connie from Fennboree, I didn’t get a chance to hear about your Hickory syrup. Also, how did your survey go?

      • Hickory syrup? A survey? I was wondering what the serious clip board-ness was about. Guess I din’t get interviewed to find out. Was the syrup tasty? I like mine over Swedish meatballs with ligonberries. Door County style. Ooof-da!

    • Well begin at the stop. Where water halts. Water lockes. Hmmm any thoughts. I. Got it now. In the caynon. Under the. Gate. Lock. Brown. Home. Under brown.
      Water but not always only when the lockes open to far to walk cause you need s boat put in. Well.

    • Yeh buddy now where did he fish in
      The lockes secrete place es. Need a key the gate keeper but where could it be what water lock help me people. You have to be in the wood cause the locke are scary specially. In snake river.

  1. Once more into the Odds-N-Ends fold. “If you have 24 odds and ends on the table and 23 of them fall off, what’ve you got, an odd or an end?” — George Carlin

    • No a sub below the rockies in tjebcaynon below a cynon can be a caynon or a. Can yon. Everythin g. Is in or below

      • Oops did I give away my coordinates. I was thinking more along the lines of loose lips sink ships.

    • Probably the same guy who sent f his gps coords, may of had a woman with him, was not sure why they were there and something about a hero. Or it’s Casey. Imo.

    • Iron Will,

      The “batter at the plate”… IMO, bears a strong resemblance to Skippy Fenn.

      Didn’t the original baseball cap have an ‘A’?

      • SL & ironwill,
        IMO the batter resembles a young Skippy Fenn and also a young Byron Nelson. Lefty batter or “switch hitter” could have been of import if ff had selected the drawing. The fact that Jenny confirmed she selected “this illustration” either:
        1.negates all associations to Fenn hints with illustration
        2.ff could have altered illustration or approved from several Jenny picked.
        3.ff and jk are same person or play same hand of poker; which of course is not the case.

        • 42,

          Would you mind taking a look at the National Archeology Data Base (NADB) Site that i’ve listed blow? I would like to see if you are seeing what I do.

          *Billy* Fenn, inc. – Enter Fenn in search engine:( One of its’ Doing Business As’.. have given me a chuckle!)


          Have also located an interesting list of Gold Mines which I think Stephanie might be interested in. (Will post that info before long).


          • SL – I got a kick out of ‘lucky stiff’ name and did basic research on Bill Fenn which led to oil wells in Gidding, NM and tx – all south of Santa Fe. Here’s the link to eagle ford shale formation & another link for mining claims be state. 2 yrs ago I attempted an extensive mining claim search but came up empty. Researching mineral rights is difficult at best. That said, it would not surprise me if ff invested in Texas tea:-) oil that is, black gold along with his stash of yellow gold.

            I’m guessing Senior Fenn is not only lucky, but an astute investor who instinctively knows which market(s) to play. Anyway, I hope the links help someone. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_Ford_Group

  2. Regarding a “blaze” can anyone tell me what a lone (black) dash, or short horizontal line would represent on a very small sign on a wood post? A symbol or message saying what??? (About a 4″x 8″ sign, with a 1″ x 4″horizontal line painted on it.)

    Also, I have heard of “blazing a trail.” Is the trail or path itself ever referred to as a “blaze?” ( I live east of the Mississippi, obviously)

    Thanks in advance.

  3. Keep on searching, sooner or latr you will find yourself. I did and I wasn’t in a dangerous place.

  4. Weekly words: Don’t be influenced by those who say they know, but don’t. f

      • I’d like to throw this out there . I’m not sure if it’s been brought up before.
        “Ford” as in Miss Ford,
        A place where a river or other body of water is shallow enough to be crossed by wading.
        “Don’t make the alligator mad until you’ve crossed the river.
        Does this help anyone’s solve?

        • This was posted in 2010 by a cousin of Forrest’s about his grandfather looking for info. I also came across something that he always bought a Ford. I’m looking for that quote, but I think this is the reason there’s a Miss Ford. Maybe that’s what he called his cars.

          I am looking for the parents of a grandfather: Charles Karl Simpson.The following is something written by my Father, William Jay Smith many years ago: Charles (Carl)Simpson, Nee:Charles (Carl) McElwain, Pittsburg, Penn.,September 27, 1883. Death: 19 March 1953 in Fort Worth, Texas.Wife: Arrie Beatrice Crayton, Born April 28, 1888 and married June 27, 1907. My Father then writes this:C.K. Simpson was born into a coal mining family and he ran away from home at the age of 13 and went into vaudeville as a song and dance man.His sire-name was “Charles McElwain” but the persecution which took him initially from his home—simply for being Irish—followed him into show business and he changed his name to Simpson and all his life he insisted that he was “Pennsylvania Dutch”.In 1945 due to contact with one of his older sisters, his wife and family first came to know of the name change.
          I have sent for the death certificate.The parents are listed as “unknown”.My next step is to try to locate the marriage application information.

          • Stephenie,

            I’ve the same information a long with more. Have it filed somewhere, and can post if you would like.


          • Correction: Stephanie (smile)

            Additionally; Coal/charcoal might be subjects important enough to look into.

            I’ve done quite a bit in relationship to “Charcoal Foundry’s.”

          • Thanks SL. I do find it interesting. I have been looking at the lines of “title to the gold” and how that relates to gold placer claims. I felt that could be how he knows it’s still there. If for example he has a quit claim inside the jar for the finder. Then that finder would change the title thereby showing Forrest that it’s been found.

            It’s the only way I know of that gold would have a title. CK actually bought a land patent from the BLM to build his cabins up in West Yellowstone so he’d be familiar with buying land from the government.

          • Thanks for the post Stephanie……

            What I find most interesting about this is that Forrest is of some IRISH decent.

            I feel that is very big deal in my solve.

          • Cool Inthechase on the Irish.

            SL that’s a very interesting genealogy post. I hadn’t seen that one before. I did see where he’s called Charles and Charlie. I also have seen Arie being called Arrie and a constilation is Aries….thinking of him looking up at the stars. What I found most interesting though is that one of the children was named Olive….the “olive jar”.

          • Very interesting on that creek with his paternal grandfather’s real last name. Have you searched using it?

            No I’ve not searched in Florida, but I probably have searched more states then anyone else LOL. I searched Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, Utah, Idaho, Texas, and Illinois. I considered Washington state, but have not gone there…yet. Still waiting for Dals invite to make it a worthy trip.

            On another note, I’m going through a divorce and there could be plans in the next few months to be going there to care for my Mom. So if I make it that far….I’ll pull out my waterproof metal detector and find the closest beach to where Forrest was stationed and see if he dropped anything there and left it behind.

        • I remember reading that a while ago.
          What made you define Ford? ; )
          Does this help anyone’s solve? I’ll keep silent on that. : )

          • No real reason except the alligator statement and it’s part of my solve but I knew it by a different name.

        • “Don’t make the alligator mad until you’ve crossed the river.

          What a confusing thread…

          eagles– I considered that connection quite a bit. In the end (for me) I found it to be not useful.

          Probably along the way between the nine clues we must cross a river or two, but that’s no surprise or helpful info..

          Whether we need to cross a river at the very end.. nobody can be sure since nobody has the chest. But doing that is one of my top two interpretations for “Your effort will be worth the cold”

          • Maybe you don’t actually cross the river.
            This could be a hint to one of the clues.

      • Does anybody else think it is odd that only one picture of Skippy with a fish appears in ttotc? Maybe Skippy was always the camera man, you know, hey Forrest go stand with the fish I caught and I’ll snap a picture. Sorry Mr. Fenn, I couldn’t resist.

    • My First Solve: First Thank you F. Now draw a straight line on a USA map through 3 known hot springs at Saratoga New York, Wisconsin Dells Wisconsin and Mount Hood Oregon. Now draw large perfect circles around those (and a fourth) center which define mountain range arcs like the Sierra Madres. You might have the first and possibly the most important NFBTFTW clue solved now. Good luck and avoid the big boulder in the center of the canyon after you put in and are ever drawing nigh to the point where you can’t paddle up that creek. I think you will know the blaze when you see it too and I wouldn’t be surprised if there are some little people holes in the area with red ocher or clo_vis ceremonial cache surrounded by rock (but not modern) structure and typically near to canoe building trees. Remember above 5000 feet and a blaze may be 13000 years old. If you are in your lapped wood then you are legal if your anchor is up. I’m not Forrest but I think I am familiar with the area the poem describes. When you arrive at the end of the trail you will see that it is quite near where you started but you will truly know it for the first time. Don’t be surprised if there is iron oxide in the rocks nearby which make the hills and mountains red. You may be able to look back and actually see the point where the warm water halts. S

      • my thoughts he begins in here alone looking back warm water haults at the water falls in the clearing from the air at 11 oclock in plane in northern laos at
        war in the jungle he tells his
        the story in a poem
        he flys into the caynon
        down low he tarry scants and mavrel gaze at .
        . targets .he is below brown at laos mountain .
        not far but too far to walk
        if wise you will see his blaze
        the water fall in laos
        looking down from his plane
        he see it he returns to find the grave and remembers it
        the memory wont last 1000 years nor will a tree or rock but his thoughts are his and he takes them with him alone in where ever he planes to be problem is hes still here yes he hid the chest for now but not for anyone to see its not time yet the real search begins when forrest
        passer bys if you should ever think think of me in a thousand years ring my bell hello im sure where he lays for all eternity will be the place where it all began

      • CLUE: The fourth hot springs center in line with the other three mentioned above is the important one in the Rocky Mountains.

  5. Interesting that Forrest posted these words right after Ax Man was AX’d

    Good luck to ALL searchers and STAY SAFE


    • JD, you do realize that 99.9% of the time the Q&A’s, weekly words, six questions etc. are done in-advance? As well as the pictures post are from the blog owner. I don’t see any connection to Ax’s rantings on this blog to weekly word.
      More than likely fenn is considering the overall rantings of blogging community. imo.

      • You are probably right. I just thought that it was an interesting coincidence.

        Many on the blog profess to have solved the poem, including myself. Only time will tell if any of us are correct.

        I am waiting for the waters to subside, and then, hopefully, I will know. Next trip planned for July 23 –
        exactly seven months since I first heard about the chase. What a THRILL these six months – so far – have been

        Thanks Forrest, and all of the bloggers that have shared their thoughts and encouragement.

        Good luck to all, and STAY SAFE


  6. Billy the kid

    I have found some information out about the chase and have not seen it referenced anywhere on the blogs. I have tried to use it and cant seem to find the exact ending. That is because I believe the most important part is the beginning. Warm Waters Halt. Without finding out the exact WWH that Forrest is referring to I believe you are unable to find the chest. The reason for this is I believe the blaze is a common feature in the river bottoms in the rockies. And to get to the exact blaze that Forrest is referring to you need to start at THE wwh. I believe that most everyone on these blogs have seen what Forrest is referring to as the blaze. He has a replica in his back yard connected to his pond.

    Ok, back to Billy the kid. I believe that Forrest portrays himself as a Mountain or Billy goat in the chase. A kid is a goat. I think it is also important to look at the root or archaic definitions of words because that is the meaning of the word that will last a very long time.

    Examples: Billy the kid that Forrest plays as a kid. Picture of him and June in TTOTC.

    Captain Kidd, his real name is William Kidd, or Billy Kidd. Forrest says he was reincarnated as Captain Kidd.

    In TFTW June rides on a Billy goat and Forrest has an inscription under the photo that says Billy the Kid!!

    Forrest is standing pointing to a map of New Mexico and pointing to a picture of three Billy goats. The caption on top says goat cheese. I am not referencing New Mexico. Just his hint in the picture. And a wishing well is directly behind him on the map.

    In scrapbook number 9. A little kid has two fingers up behind Forrests head. He looks like a Billy goat.

    I also think this chase is very hard, a lot harder than searchers realize. The references he gives that says ask a kid, That is actually a hint. I believe he uses a hint as a word that will get you closer to a clue. I believe a clue is an actual direction or location. So he says ask a kid, which is a hint to kid the definition. Which is a goat or young person. One of the root words of kid is a lamb. A lamb is meek, weak etc. Look at the school picture of all the kids. Only the girls have an L on their shirts. If you look close at the picture you can tell it has been photoshopped to add some of the L’s to the girls shirts.

    (Paraphrase) Also Forrest says a Redneck with a truck full of kids is who he wants to find the treasure. Well a redneck is a hill Billy and a bunch of kids. To me that is saying Billy the kid again.

    In the second stanza it is all about the meek. Even possibly Brown, because after you put in Below it then it is No longer the meek area.

    So WWH. Halt root word means limp, lame or cripple. By the way the wagon Forrest stands next to in his yard is called a cripple. So lame, limp cripple are all meek, weak and sheepish. Too far to walk. Walk is reference to gait or walk. A cripple walks with a limping gait and usually with a staff or walking stick like the picture on the cover of TFTW. Kind of like the hobo or bum also. Hobo in preface of TFTW and Bum in weekly words.

    I believe you need to use the whole sentence to figure out WWH. Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down not too far but too far to walk. That sentence, the whole thing I believe is how you get to the exact WWH. Root word of canyon is tube and down is a hill or dun. Also Kachina dolls are with cottonwood root. Root is important to Forrest. Going back to the Earth.

    Anyhow, back to Billy the kid. I am not sure why he is portraying himself as a Billy goat? One of my theories is that a billy goat is a scapegoat the Whipping boy. Forrest is a scapegoat and took the blame for June and would get switched for it. And he took the blame in war for me for killing the innocent crippled man and the villagers and he says the fat congressman sit back in their offices as he does their dirty work basically( paraphrase). So Forrest is the scapegoat and wants to atone. Interesting that the scapegoat wears a red hankerchief as he is sent from the village to atone for the sins of the villagers. And in for whom the bell tolls there is a chapter where they lead the towns people off the cliff like running the gauntlet to atone for the villages sins. This is just my theory on the reason for Billy goat. I don’t have the chest and this is all speculation obviously, but there are a lot of coincidences here. And Whip is very interesting.

    I hope this helps some searchers locate THE wwh.

    If anyone can be of help for myself or other searchers, I would appreciate their responses.

    Lastly, if my speculations are correct, Forrest you have created a masterpiece and you truly are a good man. I see that now. Like you said that you would like to take away the will to fight in individuals. We are all connected back to the beginning. We are all people from the same root. Thanks Forrest!


    • DPT,
      I’m not going to knock your line of thinking… personally and like you said… “this chase is very hard, a lot harder than searchers realize.”
      Yet your overall theme to WWWh and the Blaze is a bit hard to compare to each other, as the both seem to be many, from what you’re saying. How did you come to the conclusion that the blaze might be “a common feature” in the river bottoms in the rockies.”?

      My problem here is this; fenn has stated the book will help the average person… the book and a map are good references ~ or useful tools if you will… all the information is in the poem… and you don’t need to read the book. Using these after the fact statements to help guide a searcher, If there are many WWWH in the RM’s and IF that is the place to start. [ I’ll add~ for me the two comments; “know where to start” and “Nailing down the first clue” might not be one in the same but closely related to.] The the problem just became 100% more difficult, if not impossible, if there are just as many or even more blaze[s] in all the river bottoms.

      Even if one should discover the correct WWWH… how many miles of river bottoms have the same ‘natural features’ that could refer to the blaze?
      I thought the “clues” were supposed to get easier as one discovered one to the next… in your description the blaze seems to be just as hard to figure out as the WWWH.

      I’d like to ask one more question… If your theory places the chest at the blaze and the blaze is located on a river bottom… how does one walk right to the chest? That would be miraculous for an unlock chest with a flip latch to stay in its location, if you add in the force of water and mother nature. I personally have to rule out the chest in water after fenns comment… if you know exactly where the chest is, you probably can retrieve it in any weather. [paraphrasing].

      • Hi, seeker . I will try to answer the best I can. I don’t know what is right or correct, just my theory but if it can help a searcher or if someone can help me that is my intent.
        From the hints I have read from Forrest and what I have tried to figure out the blaze to me is a common feature. That is why others have been close, but did not know what they where looking for or at. Geology is a big deal along river bottoms and to see the lines and edges helps to understand what the blaze is. I don’t think it is in water, I believe that it is a couple hundred feet from the water along the river bottom. That’s where he put Olgas ashes and where dreams and fantasies play( paraphrasing). Hope this helps with my thinking. All speculation of course.

        • I am inclined to believe that there is a great deal of context needed to understand where you need to look. A few of my favorite personal solves involve the idea that you are basically standing on top of the treasure when you can see the blaze but the treasure is not actually under the blaze I suspect.

          I think people have walked right past it because they were looking for something close. It says “look quickly down”, that is not necessarily the same thing as under.

          If you find yourself stuck but have something you think might make a good blaze but isn’t even remotely close to what you think are other good clues try literally taking a few steps back and figuring out where you could see it from that is closer to your search area.

          Sorry not giving away my favorite blaze just yet but there are plenty to choose from.

          • Thanks Dys, under makes sense to me also. One of my solves includes an overhang or flap if you will.

          • I really believe that look quickly down is not asking you to look quickly. One word for a quick look is “peek”. It could be that we are to look for a specific PEEK/PEAK

          • Puzzled,
            I didn’t want to use the word, but seeing you did. Yep, peek with a double of meaning peak. While some would think ‘peak’ being just the very top of a mountain… could ‘peek and peak’ work to tell us an overlook of a high point and possibly with a narrow view or the meaning creek as a narrow passage.

            Thinking along the same lines of halt to mean ‘stop’, and a temporary ‘change in direction’ might also work together as well. and could that view point be described as a canyon; shears sides and lower lever, normally cut out by water and /or glacier activity. which might be the indicator of warm and while it is not far the action is far in time.

          • Yes I believe you a correct. IMO the blaze is constantly moving. Don’t assume it is stationary.

          • Nope, at least not in my favorite case. But I suspect that is only more confusing. There are lots of things that move but don’t change.

          • So do I sometimes… but I wonder if you think it is the same thing as me. Did you have a specific thing in mind or is that as far as you have gotten on that particular thought?

        • DPT, I’m not sure about the ashes…those were thrown from his plane.

          But your separation of the location of the chest to the blaze works well… Let’s say a searcher is at hlawh. This seems to indicate some elevation point and maybe with a narrow view of what could be the blaze. This blaze or marker could be hundreds of feet away… Even more, but can only be viewed from that one point…the point where the chest lays in wait.

          Hence, look quickly down…either just below your feet or below you view point.

          • @ eagleabound. yes, that is why you must look quickly.. It’s all imagination.

    • In my opinion WWWH is precisely the reason why the home of brown is the home of Brown and why Forrest loves the area because it has been that way for generation upon generation of locals in this area.(including ancients) and why they were able to survive and overwinter in this area. It is why Forrest probably flew a plane down or up the canyon and originally saw the blaze as he said he liked to do. Have you seen the new finding in the high mountains in Europe of red heiroglyphs on the underside of an open ledge which can’t be seen until you are just beneath them? They look fresh and bright as the day they were made. S

  7. DPT –

    I think you are right on with this post………….

    Captain Kidd, his real name is William Kidd, or Billy Kidd. Forrest says he was reincarnated as Captain Kidd.

    I agree with you in that this chase is a lot more difficult than most believe it is.

    Thanks for your great post… and Good Luck in your hunting.

  8. There is currently so much being discussed about “Ford”. Miss Ford, a Ford truck – etc.

    A Pretty Red Pickup truck does relate to my solve – here’s how……..

    Sam Walton……….


    Sam owned that red pick up for a very long time – took care of it – and of course being able to buy a new one – never did.

    Sam as a child helped his mom run a small milk business (Jumping the milk truck)

    This is directly related to my spot …………thru a relative of Sam’s.

  9. Lots of brain cells at work here coming up with interesting and thought provoking ideas…a/k/a “rabbit holes”. It does not cease to amaze me how many rabbit holes one poem can have.

    • OK. I just reread my last line and thought to myself, “jeez, if ff had spoken those exact words on MW, everyone would be thinking it was a hint!” (cease/halt, amaze/marvel, hole/in there). That’s just too rich/funny.

  10. Imagination and exploration into the unknown are the tools that drive us to excell greatness. However safety is the shield that allows us to return to tell about it.

  11. Where’s that Texas redneck quote?
    You know, the guy that lost his job with many kids & throw bedrolls in the pickup & head out into nature.
    Something tells me the average thinking person will have an advantage over the more intellectual high IQ types. The hands on type of people with experience & uncommon sense.

    Institutionalized geniuses, need not apply IMO.

    • Jake, It’s good to know that I have a chance! For the first time in my life average has an advantage. Also glad I’ve raised a couple of 13 year old boys.

      • 42,
        Bring the kids along for another advantage.
        There eyesight & agility is better than ours.
        Didn’t mean to insult the high IQ’ers.
        You have to ask yourself the question, how come the high IQ’ers haven’t found it yet?
        I think they over analyze or just don’t have the real life experience to help them.

        • No insult taken on my part. LOL. My kids are men now – agility welcome! I wouldn’t have hiked many areas without them carrying the water & packs.

        • JF I believe Forrest said many people are over-analyzing many of the clues and that knowing where the correct starting point (WWWH) is of high importance. The rest of the clues, followed with some straightforward but onsite open-mindedness, should lead an unemployed oilfield worker( and his wife and 10 kids) directly to the cache in the place that (for some reason) he says is very very special to Forrest. He went there twice in one afternoon to fill the box with it’s heavy contents so it can’t be too far from the starting point. IMO that’s what he means when he says, its not far but too far (or unwise) to walk the long way around so use the clues to take the short cut. Good luck.

    • Jake –

      You are very cool…… yes, for sure he laid the solve out so anyone could solve it. IMO you don’t even need to be smart.

      Common sense and experience will rein….in awesome fashion.

      We who know the land will indeed have an advantage……..Oh come on don’t ya all get mad at me – I have been giving out clues like crazy…………… pay attention.

      Oh, how i wish I could be at my spot right now – with one big strong man. Smiling…………..

        • morecowbell21 –

          geez I hope I got your name right……You don’t really think I would tell you – out right – where it is do you? If you listen to me – you may be able to figure it outl But I really doubt it. I do wish you the very best of luck on your hunt.

          Most of all have fun……Forrest set in motion one of the greatest hunts ever.


          • I didn’t think you would but I thought it was worth asking anyway.

            Good luck to you, have fum and be safe. I agree with you. It’s been a blast.

            Maybe the f at the end of your post is a clue that you are close.

      • More like cold inthe,
        I’ve been to hot & warm & getting ready to get cold.

        Maybe where warm waters halt & where frozen waters warm.
        But it’s still cold & be worth it.

    • And something tells me that the redneck will need to bring a lot of kids because they will have to move a lot of rocks. lol.

  12. Dal,this question is for you .In scrapbook 13,mr. forrest flew his mirage airplane toward Wyoming and Montana,land and ask if anyone collected arrowheads.he ate lots of volcanic elk chili and met a lot of nice ranchers.in your opinon,do you think these are the two states the treasure is in,no mention of Colorado.just thinking.

  13. It amazes me that nobody discusses the very real hints in
    in the book anymore…….and there were so many

    In the beginning of the chase people where so high on
    finding the chest fast…that many posted clues so real.

    Perhaps newbies should go back and read some of the things
    we said early on…………

    There are so many things that are now – not discussed – and
    are so important to the final solve – IMO.

    If – for instance -you take the drawings in the book..
    you will find many drawings that are very similar to Rockwells.
    There are names for every one of them.
    Do you think Rockwell is in the chase? I do…….

    For instance – if you take the drawing on Pages 110 and 111
    (the chapter is TEACHERS WITH ROPES) each person in that
    drawing is a real person ……..think about that …..
    to give you a start on this I will give you a clue – see the
    girl with the only black blouse – that is Judy Garland.

    The hidden person in the car – is a very real person too.

    They are all real………and until you know who these people
    are and how to apply them to the chase, perhaps you will
    be a little lost.

    • “There are nine clues in the poem, but if you read the book (TTOTC), there are a couple…there are a couple of good hints and there are a couple of aberrations that live out on the edge.”

      inthechaseto, you said;
      “It amazes me that nobody discusses the very real hints in
      in the book anymore…….and there were so many”

      While I won’t debate the book is helpful, how can you say. “and there are so many” [ clues ].?
      How does a reader come to a conclusion of, what is an actual hint within the book to what they hope is a hint?
      You say each person in the drawing is a real person… how do you know this?
      The hidden person in the car? is a real person?
      How did you come to the conclusion Judy Garland is a figure in the picture?

      Didn’t fenn say, another did the illustrations? I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure that is what was stated. I wonder how that conversation went… alright, draw Judy Garland here, but don’t tell anyone you did, ok?

      • Seeker- appreciate you posting the FF quote saying there are a couple of hints in the book TTOTC. I have found it interesting that he said, “there are a couple of aberrations that live out on the edge”. I thought I knew the definition of aberrations, but looked it up anyway. Was very surprised to see that one definition fits my most current partial solve. “failure of a mirror, refracting surface or lens to produce an exact, point to point correspondence between an object and it’s image”. As I have mentioned before, I think mirrors, shadows, and artwork are a hint that the solution involves an image of something but not the thing itself. So this unusual definition of aberration seems to confirm my belief that the solve does involve the image of something but not the thing itself. “nailing down the first clue” confirms the exact same thing for me. If these two statements both support my partial solve, it suggests to me that I’m on the right track.

        • Puzzled, a Q&A that may help with aberration…

          “In your dictionary, what’s an aberration? ~Serge Teteblanche
          I don’t have a dictionary but my personal definition is “Something different.” I like that word.
          When I was a kid there was a commonly used word. Crean, and it described the condition a car could get into when it ran into a ditch and the frame twisted a little, preventing the doors from opening. Modern autos are more sturdy so I guess that word was retired. I can’t find it anywhere now.f ”

          You said; Was very surprised to see that one definition fits my most current partial solve. “failure of a mirror, refracting surface or lens to produce an exact, point to point correspondence between an object and it’s image”.

          I think you’re correct that there is a “image” related problem to the solving of the poem. Light, shadow, reflection, viewing something etc. That is why I tend to see “And take it in” as a point of view and not so much a travel with botg. I think there is a very subtle hint.. maybe a better word would be a subtle suggestion… that the word “crean” seems to be retired from the dictionary to mean words in the poem suggest other meanings than common usage.

          I think the word usage in the poem relates to the same… maybe not retired as much as built different in meaning as fenn intended them. Does warm mean only a temperature? halt only mean stop? Go in peace only to mean you’re quest is done, have a great day? Just like, begin it where warm waters halt… if there are many in the RM’s is it simply a poke and hope to find the one and only, or is there a reason to understand all those WWWH in the RM’s.

          • Just bugs me, “Crean” mentioned by f, if spelled correctly “swerve” is still in use and has a little different meaning than he remembers.


            change or cause to change direction abruptly:
            “a car swerved around a corner” · [more]
            synonyms: veer · deviate · skew · diverge · sheer · weave · zigzag · [more]
            an abrupt change of direction:
            “do not make sudden swerves, particularly around parked vehicles”

          • didn’t he also say something to the effect of the blaze throwing people off. Maybe a picture is needed there to show the “wise”. 😉

    • I always saw teachers with ropes as a map. Field of stumps is a map. Dancing gypsies is a map.

    • Inthechase, thanks sincerely for directing newbies (me included) to early discussions regarding Rockwell paintings, etc. I plan to spend time doing so. May I ask how you arrived at the your Judy Garland = little girl black blouse conclusion?
      I’m looking at the illustration now and not sure how to determine who the kids are. Oddities/aberrations live large in many of the line drawings. How about the little girl at the front of the line with a hole through her mid section?

      • Anna –

        There is an exact way to tell who they are and it is through the stamps.

        The little girl in the front is Georgia Okeefe – via the flowers on her dress.

        No, I am not crazy – but FF did use someone who was a bit crazy – in a nice way. Do you see the boy with the black book? He is bent over and his hair is rather a mess ….I won’t tell “who” that one is —- it’s a duzzy.

        Now, do you see the middle of the page? There appears to be two boys if you look close – yes, indeed – they are brothers.

        • Inthechase – thanks for responding. My time will run out before I correctly interpret “teachers with ropes.” Unless one is an independently wealthy hermit with a staff of servants, and nothing to do- there’s not enough time to think it all through.

          **Because of your screen name I couldn’t resist posting the exciting finish of the 2016 Belmont Stakes. Wish I had placed a bet – I would have bet on Creator since I know the family.


          • Philosopher- yes!
            However, because Dal & Goofy dedicate a great amount of time to running a blog about ttotc rather than philosophical discussions – I try to stay on topic or relate those discussions to my solution.

            If you are new here, hello, and welcome to Fenn’s horse race!

          • Anna,

            Then you are wise indeed…. I ordered TTOTC in April, 2013 after reading Dal’s blog for a good while. So, not new, but hopefully judicious in what, when, and how much I say….

          • Anna –

            You are most welcome. You are right about it being time consuming. It took me a good two years to put together – and two years before that – not knowing what I was doing. But it is a trip – I would not have traded and an education beyond anything I had expected .I knew it was something that would take time, when Forrest said no one would stumble on it.

            Thank you for the video on the Belmont Stakes – truly a day for the grey horses – I did love watching it again as my daughter and I always watch the triple crown races and bet with each other. I did bet on Creator – mostly because I loved his conformation and thought he was pretty…

  14. Saw a running man in a tunnel on a sign. He depicts a way to run out of a tunnel I guess if it collapses. It also might fit the omega being the shape of the tunnel entrance. I’m curious though if two mean a double tunnel or each end of a tunnel. *pondering*

    • Stephanie it would seem to me that it means – each end of the tunnel – the beginning and the end imo

      • Thanks Frank. I was searching Idaho Springs and there were two tunnels and I didn’t know how it might relate to the poem at all if it had anything to do with it. Maybe just a symbol you’re in the right area. My eyes freaked when I saw the sign inside the tunnels though. I’m sure they are in other tunnels as well, but in all these years it was the first time I noticed.

        • why are you in tunnels? Somewhere I thought ff said no tunnels involved? He did say “not associated with any structures.”

          • I’m not IN the tunnels at all. Just felt that it might have been a sign to being in the right area. My solve actually started with the Sulphur hot springs West of there, because of the smell of sulphur being similar to his assaulted smell from the gravy and all…then it took me to the town of Idaho Springs. A spring bouncing you up high is water high and thought he just might have been amusing himself to take Idaho off the map(I searched Idaho back in 2011…so that seemed strange he took it off)

  15. I think there’s one thing that people are forgetting when they use obscure meanings of words in the poem.
    When we are doing this, does the poem still flow elegantly & make sense the way it does without?
    You have to ask yourself this question & if the answer is no, then I don’t think it’s the way to go.
    I would think Forrest would want it to flow together smoothly without sounding like something doesn’t belong.

    If the poem doesn’t flow.
    You should eat crow.

    • I am not sure that I agree. If the poem is to be solved, the meanings of words, as forrest meant them, is the important thing, not whether the poem still flows.

      Take the first sentance of stanza #2…”Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down.”

      If you decide that this means “Start at Firehole springs, and take it down stream following the Firehole rRver”.

  16. @Jim, re:crean
    I never discerned why Forrest used “crean” rather than swerve or what we are to infer from the his comment. I’ll throw out a couple of possibilities: Crean- spanish prounoun ellas for they; Crean is an Irish surname which comes from the word heart. (Center of wood is also known as the heart.) Crean is sometimes used to describe steep gullies on golf courses;hazards without sand. My dad also uses the word when describing cars creaning in out of control. It would be interesting to correctly understand what ff means on about anything! Lol he’s good at making me feel stupid.

    • JIm and Anna –

      I always heard the name said as “Careen” – not just crean. Always in the chase – look to the Irish.

      The center of the wood (in the forest) is where I believe the treasure to be.

      • There is also an antarctic explorer – Tom Crean (hope I’m spelling that right – don’t what to go look it up) who I long ago – thought could be in the chase – but in the end – he got ruled out. Since working in Antarctica – I thought that was influencing my opinion.

        • Anna……..

          Since you are new – I would like to maybe head you in the right direction……….

          Don’t count clues !

          I found counting clues a total waste of time and extremely counter productive.

          One only counts clues at the very end of your solve that’s because – only then do you know what they are. IMO

          • Exactly what I have been saying. Waste of time to count clues until you understand the entire poem.

          • Puzzled….

            It’s a good feeling to have one person agree with me. If lots of people agreed – I’d probably be headed in another direction. There is a very real meaning to that statement. I went back and read and checked “how” other treasure hunts of the past were done and how they were solved. It helped me a great deal in giving me ideas as to how this treasure hunt was done. It was then that I sat a put a great deal of thought into how I would do this – if I were him. Knowing FF and how he thinks – helped a great deal. I know he said he didn’t look at a lot of other hunts – but I take that with a grain of salt. All it takes is one.

          • Inthechaseto,

            I lean to the opposite. I don’t think fenn wanted this hunt to be like any other… considering ‘any other’ to mean the more popular style treasure hunt stories. This might be why I tend to not use a map as directional … the dotted line that goes from a rock to a tree through a valley and up a hill to an X that marks a spot type thinking.

            I’m thinking this hunt is more a journey of the mind when it come to the solving of the poem. Physical places and landscape… yes. Yet, there seems to be a story being told, for lack of a better term, and not just a story of fenn hiding the trove.

            So, is where warm waters halt a place? Sure it is… but there seems to be more to it than simply water or merging waters, or water that stops… Hint of riches new and old, for me, implies a telling of knowledge that is known and unknown [ to know the place for the first time ]. That is my line of thinking when I read the poem… finding the answers to new and old. Fenn’s objective here, as we have been told is, to get folks outside again… but fenn wanted to influence generations to come as well. What is he actually trying to influence them about?

            imo… this challenge is completely different to most treasure hunts… I think he is taking us on a journey… not having us simply follow a dotted line.

          • Well said seeker. This is the closest I feel someone has gotten to why I feel he did it since I have been on this site. Sure get people off there electronic devices and become one with nature. Get families together again and enjoy the great outdoors. But what is it really all about? It has to be more much much more??? Stay along this line of thought. I like it and I feel Forrest would like as well(IMO). Wow and you did that without all the fancy words being thrown around that I have witnessed by many.

          • Seeker –

            I did not mean to infer that this hunt is like another – it is not. It is better and a masterpiece.

            IMO this hunt does have a theme – and it is about life and death – FF’s life. It has a beginning , a middle, and an end. I am just not ready to give out any more info on that right now.

            As for the new and old (it goes along with the theme) but more than that – it is also about a wedding.

            All the above is just my opinion……….

          • To all –

            I’m going to add one more thing about the wedding. Forrest said that the most important thing you could read – was the chapter “MY WAR FOR ME”.

            Doesn’t anyone find it unusual that he would start that chapter with a wedding photo?

          • ACE, I use small words for medical reasons… I once attempted a five syllable word and almost had a hernia.

          • Into,
            Once I might have agreed with your choice of words. Upon reflection, my opinion tends to lead towards a broader perspective. Not unlike my memory, the poem will stand the test of time. A confusing path this one without a shadow, dark and blurry at best. My war for me speaks volumns according to Mr. Fenn. In my opinion, a question of why is something we all must ponder and all I know is who I must follow.

          • River bathing is best describes fenn’s symbolic birth…. at the first omega. The last Omega will be death. .. exit from the stage… also without clothes. “Begin it” vague because it is different in each layer. “Thrill of the chase” hinting at other layers (meanings of “it” like sex or other thrills) I agree standing up, and an act of faith required.

        • Inthechaseto,
          You said, the theme to the poem is life and death. While I can read the poem one way as, lets say birth… and… another way as death [ both in separate readings/interpretations ].

          Have you thought that the poem may refer to a creation and destruction or the making of and demise of something? And not so much about fenn himself. Thinking along the lines of, long term or 1000 / 10,000 years down the road.

          If knowledge of geography might help us, along with the RM’s are still moving comments… could this all be about the range itself? the preface of the book, tells of fenn’s emotional connection to the mountains as he calls them “his church” and the river bottoms are where “dreams and fantasies alike go to play” I have pondered the connection to fenn’s rainbow as the special place the chest lays in wait… and the theme being the Rockies. The journey / story of the RM’s.

          • Seeker –

            You asked – Have you thought that the poem may refer to a creation and destruction or the making of and demise of something?

            I have not thought it – what I FOUND directly lead me to this conclusion. It is about “where” and how FF is to be buried and why.

            How can you say could this be about the range itself – when that is precisely where the treasure is? That’s part of it but not the main theme. The rainbow will get you started.

          • Inthechase,

            I know folks change their minds, situations change, time is relative to decision making… But fenn did say he didn’t like the idea of being “buried”
            You said; – what I FOUND directly lead me to this conclusion. It is about “where” and how FF is to be buried and why.

            You may not say why you think this, but I’ll ask anyways… How did you come to the conclusion of where and more importantly why the change of heart for fenn? No specifics of the location obviously, it’s the “why” that interest me on how you came about that.

            You have to admit that is a strange piece of information to come across… especially when we have been told of the original plan… was not to be buried, and the reasons at the time.

          • Seeker- I agree with your comments regarding the RM. But, I have never heard the quote abt the RM still moving (although I know it’s true). Would you share the quote with me?

          • Seeker, Inthechase,
            Following your interesting interchange of ideas on Forrest’s ideology regarding burial and hiding the treasure…

            Holding the belief that ‘his rainbow’ is important: Perhaps, like the Biblical account of God’s rainbow being “the promise of His covenant” to never again destroy the earth by flood, in like manner Forrest is fulfilling his promise to himself, his family, Eric Sloane, or even God. One concrete example of Forrest making a covenant of sorts was his promise to quit hunting – when he was diagnosed with cancer. That promise could only be for himself. I doubt anyone else would care deeply, except PITA type organizations.

            Forrest is his own man, so unconventional that predicting what his thoughts are is impossible. No sense in trying. We have to look closely at what he has provided for our eyes & hearts to understand. Truthfully, I understand very little, and wish I could let go of the project. Something keeps tugging at me, saying don’t give up, yet.

          • Puzzled, it was a Q&A… MW’s

            “The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years but the geography probably will change before we reach the next millennia. The Rocky mountains are still moving and associated physical changes will surely have an impact. If you are in the year 3,009 it will be more difficult for you to find the treasure.f”

          • Anna,

            lol… I don’t know how you got what you said from my post. My wording of an “emotional connection to the mountains” was not meant as religious or bible anything. Think more along the line of a connection to a place you can be with ease with yourself. I also don’t believe fenn meant the mountains as religious in the sense of biblical either [ I don’t know…maybe he did, but I didn’t take it that way ]

            I take that statement from the book as, the mountains [church] is his sanctuary… his hideaway or refuge if you will. Just like “in love with Yellowstone” I think fenn feels that way about what the RM’s provided not only him but all who pass through… it’s is a geological / geographical wonder itself… Is this one of the reasons fenn stated in the “mountains north of SF”? and not in the RM’s… we needed to understand that ourselves.

            The RM’s information didn’t come out till years after the release of the book [ I don’t know exactly the date, yet it was well after the book ]. So is it a hint? or did fenn simple eliminate all the other mountain ranges has the hiding place.

          • Seeker –

            You wrote – ” You may not say why you think this, but I’ll ask anyways… How did you come to the conclusion of where and more importantly why the change of heart for fenn? No specifics of the location obviously, it’s the “why” that interest me on how you c’tame about that.

            You have to admit that is a strange piece of information to come across… especially when we have been told of the original plan… was not to be buried, and the reasons at the time.”
            I will try as best I can to answer your question – without giving away the farm.

            If you put things together in the book – he tells you along the way – what to do. There are nine equations to this quest of putting things together. In the end – you find yourself reading what he wrote in a totally new way. He wrote a new sort of poem at the end – and he tells you all about what is going to happen when he dies. Believe it or not – I don’t care – and am not going to argue the point. It is simply what I found by following directions.

          • Seeker et all……….

            I wlll add this – in the end – it’s funny. His sense of humor comes tumbling thru in glorious fashion.

            And in the end – he is not going to throw himself on a rock.

          • For All………….

            I’ll tell you what – if you guess what Forrest does in the end – I will tell you if your right. My bet is you won’t get it in a million years.

          • Inthechase,
            Guessing~ buried standing up right.

            So what I’m getting is you found a hidden poem within the poem?
            Or do you mean a new sorta poem came out of what you found from the book?

          • No it’s not standing up.

            Yes, you need the book – don’t kill the messenger. I also think the treasure can be found without the book. But, the book way is more fun.

          • Hello inthechaseto. You’ve posted the following:

            ‘Seeker et all……….

            I will add this – in the end- it’s funny. His sense of humor comes tumbling thru in glorious fashion.

            And in the end – he is not going to throw himself on a rock.’

            ‘For All………….

            I’ll tell you what – if you guess what Forrest does in the end – I will tell you if your right. My bet is you won’t get it in a million years.’

            In the following link, if the statement is true, it’s reads Mr. Fenn said:

            “No one knows where that treasures chest is but me,” Fenn says. “If I die tomorrow, the knowledge of that location goes in the coffin with me.”


            Trying to think of a possible humorous connection to the end, and the link shown, perhaps he thought if he came into this world naked, he was leaving the same way. Somehow I could see his family fulfilling this possible wish, but with a closed casket. Another possible thought would be to be buried in a tux, but be barefooted. With Mr. Fenn’s humorous side, it would seem the list could be endless. I’m curious to know what you found, knowing my two guesses are more than likely wrong.

          • OK inthe,
            You obviously know what Forrest had planned.
            But why would it take us a million years to guess what you know as opposed to his 10,000 year statement.
            I guess you know better than him…..

    • I’ve heard the term “crean” before.
      Careen is a different word.
      “The car careened around the corner.”
      Careen means something along the lines of leaning in motion. It’s also used when a car goes out of control, but the meaning is the same. Tilting, leaning, as in a car careening off the road.

      Crean is just as Forrest said. That’s when something gets bent, like the frame of a car or a twisted straight edge. That the item doesn’t function properly is an affect of it having been creaned.
      Car doors might not shut right, a creaned car will wobble when moving (misalignment), etc.
      I’ve never heard it applied to anything like a mirror that’s warped, but I suppose it fits.

  17. ff has said that some people have been by the first 2 clues and…………..
    Can anyone speculate as to how many people (searchers) that might be?
    Even estimate an order of magnitude?


    • Mountainman-
      If I am right about what the first two clues actually are…I would speculate 8,000 to 10,000 folks per day pass right by them..of course that’s only in summer. In winter the number is far less.

      • dal-
        This could be true but do you think the number of real “searchers” is as high over time also?

        Just food for thought….

        • Mountainman-
          I think that about one in ten searchers who are looking in MT/WY area pass right by the first two clues (if I am correct about what they are). Some of them are using those places as their first two clues…many others are using something else in the neighborhood.

          This is all speculation because I have absolutely no facts to justify my numbers. I think this is part of the reason Forrest has said that we will be surprised about it’s location when found.

          And finally, I think this is an ideal example of Forrest’s sense of humor.

          • Yes, you are correct sir ,the first 2 stanza are very important. My solve revolves around them.

          • I was about to rummage through the archives like a naughty hyena digging through rubbish… then I looked at the massive volumes of archived threads. As much as I would like to do more research into what you think I have packing to do as I hope to leave tomorrow.

            I’ve already made up my mind on where I am going and why. I’m not exactly sure where I got the impression but I think that you have already been there an done that. Would I be wrong to say that your favored location is the Madison and fire hole rivers?

            I know there is no joy in helping the competition. But if you already added your 2 cents it would be nice as a relatively new searcher to know about it. So indulge me (us) if you will if its not too inconvenient and pray do tell us what you think or at least where to find what you have already said for ourselves.

          • Dys-
            Look at “Dal – Almost Live from MT/WY…” and see if you can figure out what place clue two for me is…
            But really..I fall asleep a lot out there so never feel like you shouldn’t look somewhere simply because I was there…I could miss a doberman in the icebox on a regular basis…

          • Ah, that is where I got the idea that we were looking in some of the same places after all. I think i get where you’re going. So same first two clues most likely but 3 is were it gets tricky.

            And I’m not in the least discouraged to check a place over again. After all more than several of us have gotten the first two right and some of us have been very close apparently following in ALMOST someone else’s footsteps seems not only a viable stratagem but also a requisite for the winning solve at least up to a point.

          • Dal: My apologies if you’ve discussed the implications before, but…

            How do you rationalize the legalities of the treasure being hidden within the park boundary? Thanks!

      • Yes, you are correct . I would estimate 80% on this site have solved the first clue . The hard part is not to ignore it.

        • Hi all. For what it’s worth in trying to help an unemployed oilfield worker/dad/husband/everyman keep his head above GATT water ; My WWWH (not MJ) actually is a literal synonym for the famous multi-word location name placarded on the old large metal sign posted within yards of the precise mossy WWWH. NOTE: If the water is at high stage then the boulder may not hinder the searcher rushing ever nigher. “Woodland Brave” “Clear Point Cache” S

        • Hi Dr. Coffee: I guess you’ll have to lump me in with the 20%. I’ve been at it for over a year, and in no way would I claim I had solved the first clue. Unless the first clue is that it’s in the Rockies. 😉

          But in all seriousness, I’m interested in how/why you came up with a figure so high (80%) for the percentage of searchers who visit this site that you believe have solved the first clue. I think if you did a survey of the number of people here who think the chest is in New Mexico vs. Colorado vs. Wyoming vs. Montana vs. (other), not one of these 5 choices would be chosen by more than 50% of respondents, let alone 80%. Are you assuming that most people think Indulgence is in Wyoming?

          • Toby Younis did a poll 1/14 on his blog ( A Gypsy’s Kiss) Where did Forrest Fenn hide his treasure? Only 103 votes back then….surprised to see that 48% voted for NM. Things have changed since then, but it would be interesting to see the results today….

          • I would love to see such a poll (even an impromptu one) done here. Such polls are easy to set up in Yahoo Groups, but probably not so easy on a blog.

            Here’s a little factoid for everyone. The approximate number of square kilometers in play in MT is 146,000, using generous borders for the colored region on Fenn’s map. 179,000 square kilometers are in bounds for Wyoming. If 50,000 people are searching in one of those two states, and you distribute them evenly, each searcher would have his/her own 1.58 mile x 1.58 mile patch. So it’s really not much of stretch for “more than several” searchers to have appeared to solve the first two clues if the first two clues get you within, say, 5 miles of the chest. And if you eliminate all the places within those two states that are too high or too low in altitude, it starts to get downright crowded.

          • It’s based on the I.Q. distribution scale. It’s likely more than 84% based on the Stanford Binet-Scale .

          • I doubt there is any correlation between IQ and the people who have correctly figured out the first clue. You were positing that 80% (or 84%) of the people who visit this site have solved the first clue. I say this is impossible given that not even 50% of the people here agree on the state in which the first clue is located.

          • @zaphod73491 That’s because the 84% of people including yourself DO NOT KNOW that they have solved the first clue. The first clue MUST be solved but in ITSELF gets you NOWHERE.

            The Aforementioned is not proven fact and only the experience I had with the poem.

          • Well, I’m not a fan of speaking in riddles, and don’t see much value in suggesting that people have unknowingly solved the first clue and yet didn’t know it. It’s a bit of a contradiction — if they didn’t know they’d solved it, then that’s really no different than having not solved it.

            At one time or another I’m sure most of us have considered locations all over the Rockies — quite possibly in all 4 states. If you’ve considered “everywhere that’s in play” then, duh, you must have “solved” the first clue (however briefly)! But that’s obviously not actionable information.

            Should I conclude by your 84% comment that as long as you have an IQ greater than 84 (1 sigma below the mean of 100) that you are smart enough to have (at one point or another) correctly solved the first clue? Or perhaps you’re suggesting the more intriguing possibility: that as long as your IQ is below 116, you’ve figured out the first clue at some point.

          • No, IMO you should conclude that you likely found the the first clue, but did not think enough about it. I should have used the word found instead of solved. I’m sorry if I misled you.

          • Ahha! Dr. Coffee, our disconnect is resolved. You’re talking about *identifying* the first clue, not necessarily deciphering what it means. But even on this point, I’d be surprised if 84% of the posters and lurkers here agree on what the first clue is. Sure, everyone knows that WWWH is ~a~ clue (or at least everyone that has a hope of finding the chest). But it sure appears that a lot of people don’t think that’s the first clue.

            And then there is just the question of what is meant by “first clue”? Is it the first clue you encounter while reading the poem normally from the top down, or is it the clue that tells you the starting point, or is it the first clue you must solve (wherever it appears in the poem) for you to have any hope of unraveling the others?

      • apparently “more than several” I’d not go so far as to say any percentage but It is at least a solve we have probably heard of more than once by now.

          • Trust me I will be reasonably safe… and its a long way on purpose for me. This serves as more than a treasure hunt for me. I had a really bad auto accident that by all rights should have killed me and all passengers a little more than a year ago and have become a bit of a shut in due to ptsd.

            So I need to be a little “not safe” to get back on my feet and I need to go out on my own without help like I used to. Its a sad state of affairs when you’ve been an adventurous type your entire life and then become scared to leave the house over something as trivial as nearly dieing.

          • I have no regrets. But being scared to venture far from safety is not like me at all and its got to stop.

            I’m a person who up until this last year has all of those stories that definitely happened but would not be believed by any reasonably sane person even without embellishment. I’ve saved a few lives, nearly ended a few, partied with rock stars and physicists alike, been to all corners of the states, befriended several schizophrenics, lived off gambling for a few months, had to steal to eat, built a death ray (sorta), been loved by women well out of my league, lived with a hippy cult, clashed with riot police, been stabbed more than once and shot at. Never batted an eye didn’t even flinch but for some reason this one got to me.

      • Depends on the definition of some, 🙂 I wouldn’t follow in Pinacchios footsteps, however there is one that points the way, IMO Only.

  18. dal-
    As you know I really like your starting point.
    I’m just thinking that if we really knew the correct number of “some searchers”, we might be able to discount some sights in ANY Stare.

    • Well, forrest has been saying this since 2013, t hat I can remember , so the count of the first two clue
      searchers is pretty high by now.

      • If we are all headed in the same “correct” direction then it works ….
        Else only a few have been to the “correct” starting point and the rest have been chasing a “red hearing” ….
        Thus the need to know………

        Food for thought..

  19. Hello my fellow Treasure Hunters..wow I thought by now the TC would have been found..it’s great to know that FF said a few know the first two clues..but what if clue #3 and #4 are in the same location…IMO, there r three who have an idea about the first four clues from reading there comments..maybe this week I will drive to my location and see if the TC is there..What if the “blaze” is while the sun is setting there is a reflection coming from the TC..happy trails my fellow Treasure Hunters…I’m sure if I go this week I will run into a few of u..remember be “brave”.. and feel cold…hehehe

    • I would mostly agree woody. I like the idea of the overall flow to be something like here is a place, here is a direction, here is a new place, here is a direction, here is a new place, here is a direction. Often 3 and 4 for me are just that. 3 is a place, 4 is a direction from that place.

      Also you almost touched on something that I hold very dear with that comment about the sun. All I’ll say is I think you are on to something but forgot to include some pertinent information when reaching that conclusion… perhaps a word that is key, but that is just my opinion.

        • Not just yet Kevin. Its been raining since sunrise this morning (no surprise it is Washington after all). After not really raining for a week or two.

          I hope it lets up before noon (I’m far enough north that this would still leave me with 9 hours of daylight). While I have no problem braving the elements on a motorcycle as I have done in the past I have not done it with 2 weeks worth of camping gear strapped to the back of an already high set bike. Add in some slick roads to my inexperience with such balancing issues and that is a recipe for disaster.

          Ill call it a blessing in disguise for now and further baton down my gear, perhaps do an oil change on my bike if it does not let up sometime soon.

          I’m trying not to be impatient or disappointed and play it safe I am not particularly well known for my impulse control.

          • Yea Dys,
            Better to be safe than sorry especially on a bike.
            BTW, my other brothers name is Kevin, he thinks I’m crazy chasing the chase.
            My bro James who’s coming along knows I’m crazy.
            Maybe we are all a little crazy chasing.

          • Nope I didn’t call my other friend jake but I did just notice you two have the same last name with the same spelling. Your brother doesn’t happen to be a hippie from Oklahoma by any strange chance does he? I doubt it he likes adventures.

  20. Right seeker, I was simply following your conversation with Inthechase, and adding my bit of opinion regarding the ITC’s rainbow comments. I does seem like Forrest is completing some sort of promise in fulfilling the chase, etc.
    that’s all I meant.

  21. Have to run. In the process of liquidating and closing out a small business this week. Have fun.

  22. “Hear me, my chiefs! I am tired; my heart is sick and sad. From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.”


  23. Some fun facts about Scrapbook frequency…

    – I think (I hope) we’re due for a new one about any time now.
    – By this time in 2014, 21 new Scrapbooks had appeared. By this time last year (2015), 25 new Scrapbooks had appeared. This year, only 6. Perhaps Forrest is just busier this year. Or… perhaps someone has started to correctly decipher?
    – The longest duration between Scrapbooks was 107 days, between Scrapbook 149 and Scrapbook 150. It happened this year between 11/23/2015 to 3/9/2016. Dal broke the Scrapbook long silence, but Forrest followed up with Scrapbook 151 the same day, a letter from Stern on stars.
    – 2013 saw about 50 posts. 2014 saw more than 70, with esoterica starting to arrive. 2015 slowed back down to a little more than 30 posts with the same pattern of mystery and intrigue. 2016 frequency seems to be dropping very quickly.
    – The contribution frequency pattern started slowing down last year, around July 2015. Thereafter, Scrapbook contribution has been curiously sparse. Judging from the contributions to Weekly Words and Q&A with Jenny Kile’s MW site, Mr. Fenn is seemingly transforming his tones from Mr. Teacher to more toward Mr. Grumpypants. I can’t imagine scenarios in my head why this is occurring, but something has occurred. Perhaps he’s just taking more time now to be thoughtful and careful about exactly what he posts? Perhaps the synonym content has been replicated enough now that there just isn’t that much more content to post?
    – The median contribution has been about 3 days, the top quartile reaching 9 days in between. The 95th percentile is still only 32 days, with several outliers above this. Nothing much changes even if I adjust for early Scrapbooks having been posted in the same day.
    – At the moment, we are at 37 days since the last Scrapbook (155).

    Now, mind you, I really look forward to these Scrapbooks because I am of the opinion that Forrest hides hints in many of these later ones, starting around 81. I can then start analyzing them and applying my biases. I like to imagine he entertains himself by doing this, and monitoring the absolute cluelessness that ensues. But lately… something seems to be changing.

    If what I’m theorizing about Scrapbook numbering is relevant, I predict Scrapbook 157 to be a doozy. I can certainly hope. Or, maybe just by posting this, I have ruined it for everyone. I guess we’ll see.

    • Oops. I need to clarify I did not distinguish between Dal’s posts and Forrest’s posts. This is an error. Please disregard for the moment. I will recalculate and come back with new numbers.

    • Wow…. EC are you a professor or something? Impressive analysis thanks for sharing! Maybe Scrapbook 157 will have something to do with AGE?

    • Wow E.C. you must be really bored. Here’s a few more amazing facts: (I predict the next scrapbook will contain one of these facts.)

      A crocodile cannot stick its tongue out.

      TYPEWRITER is the longest word that can be made using the letters only on one row of the keyboard.

      No word in the English language rhymes with month, orange, silver, or purple.

      The “pound” key on your keyboard (#) is called an octotroph.

      The “dot” over the letter “i” is called a tittle.

      The slogan on New Hampshire license plates is “Live Free or Die.” These license plates are manufactured by prisoners in the state prison in Concord.

      The house fly hums in the middle octave key of F.

      Hummingbirds are the only animals that can fly backwards.

      There are 293 ways to make change for a dollar.

      • and you thought he was bored!?? BTW that Typewriter one was cool ….never looked at it like that 😀

        • Re: typewriter.. also perpetuity, repertoire, proprietor and pepperwort.

          ..for those who type with two hands: stewardesses.. is one of the few longest (12- letter) words that can be typed with your left hand while with your right hand is on the mouse..

          ..being able to find and manipulate words quickly has been a great aid for me in this Chase, I think.

      • @Goofy – Yup. Bored enough to want more Fenn-posted content with hints buried in them. I’m either close enough to smell it, or so way off the path that I found the anti-chest’s location.

        • E.C. I also predict you will find a big hint in the next scrapbook. (Regardless of what he talks about.) 🙂

          • @Goofy – maybe. Lately it’s been a strain to find something. Something has changed. He certainly likes the word “banco”. Let’s see if that repeats again.

            Yes. I am correctly interpreting your intended snark, but I’m just going ahead anyway.

          • E.C. I’m just ribbing you. I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone with an imagination like yours. Many of your comments are very interesting; but you take the term “going off on a tangent” to a whole new level………I crown you the King Of Rabbit Holes. 🙂

          • I truly believe your work is brilliant. No matter what comes of the chase, or how long I remain in it, you have been an inspiration to me and I am sure to many others. I love your bravery providing your solve to us in real time. I feel that you believe in your solve and move with confidence. So to extend your knowledge to us I thank you.

          • @Goofy – no worries. I know what you’re saying. And I accept the crown even if someone else (unnamed) is my model and predecessor. I just need to find ways to avoid their burn-out.

            Seriously, behavioral pattern analysis, written, frequency, and otherwise, is actually a really big deal. Not sure it’s wise to discount it as entropy, the analysis I mean.

            The way I just ended that last sentence is also a stylistic pattern known as clarifying ambiguous antecedents. Fenn leaves these everywhere. I can’t yet tell if there is a reason for it, but I certainly notice it.

            Maybe “whut?” actually can walk a way a bit smarter with bar currency after this post. Or maybe “whut?” is already smarter than all of us.

          • “clarifying ambiguous antecedents'”- so there is a name for this style of writing. Where do you learn this stuff EC? I didn’t know the name for it, but there is definitely a reason for it in the poem. This style is the reason people have been to clues 1 & 2 and not known it and why they walk right past the other clues and the TC (Imo)

          • Re: Goofy’s proposed coronation of E.C. yesterday (“you take the term ‘going off on a tangent’ to a whole new level………I crown you the King Of Rabbit Holes.”) — I second the motion! It might be an interesting intellectual/computer exercise to estimate how small the number of rabbit-holes-per-poem-word are necessary to produce every possible destination in the Rockies. Fenn’s “Six Degrees of Separation” if you will. 🙂

        • EC – will you send me to a place where uses the word banco- im interested thanks

          • @frank –

            TTOTC – Father on the Banco

            Scrapbook 91.

            Scrapbook 99.5.

            That’s three for now.

      • I’m twice as smart now, compared to befoe I read this. This will win be a lot of respect and maybe win some bets next time I’m in a bar.

      • I’m hoping the next SB talks about useless information…

        “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f” 

      • @Goofy –

        Set to blow college dorm room doors off *the hinges*
        *Oranges*, peach, pears, plums, *syringes*
        Yeah, here I come
        *I’m inches* away from you, here, fear none

        Absolutes suck on a good day. On a bad day, I’m just rude.

          • @Goofy – you mentioned some fun facts that included oranges having no rhymes, and yet Eminem was artistically able. Although Spallies seems to have recognized it, I unsuccessfully tried to point out the fuzziness of absolutes, and why I cringe when I see them. One might say I was like the purple gerbil that got too verbal after hitting the herbal on another bad day.

          • @Spallies – 8. As in octotroph. Oh wait. That’s not actually a word. I think Goofy meant octothorpe but didn’t fact-check prior to copying from a website that quotes useless facts for dealing with people that drive him crazy.


    • E C Waters- you are always so inspiring. Now I look forward to a new scrapbook. But this post prompted me to review the past scrapbooks. I haven’t really reviewed the scrapbooks that were here before I came along. I randomly started with SB 146. How interesting that it seems to fit part of my solve so neatly. I feel sure that I know why dragonflies are important to the solve. Lots more catch-up to do.

    • Forget about Scrapbooks. What I’d like to see is some searcher stories. Work requires me to live vicariously through you all, and no one’s putting up anything. C’mon, folks. It’s mid-June already. Go have some adventures, already, and report you back well and truly!

      • Our story – Drove a hell of a long ways, 4 x 4’d through amazing terrain, finally had to stop truck and hoof it. Friends didn’t make it to site, myself and husband did..only had 10-15 minutes to look….no flashlight and didn’t mark the path to get out in dark, so had to leave …going back later this year. : )

        • Kedar’s Mom- I’m so sorry you had such a short time to do your such. What a disappointment.

          • Thanks Puzzled. I was in tears when we had to leave. I never said anything, but I found something while there. : )

      • Jeremy,
        I just finished my very first search with my brother. It was in the selfsame area that you featured in “A Search in New Mexico” and “Advancing the Chase” – two of your featured posts. (I had independently come to the same ‘solve’ geography as you.) I won’t repeat here what this area is, for fear that every reader will become dispeptic. No treasure was found (obviously), but I realized later that something I had ruled out needed to be ruled back in – maybe. I told my brother, as we called off the search early due to weather, that you are one searcher I would like to have a conversation with – I admire how you arrived at your solve. Thanks for your contributions.

    • EC – Perhaps more important things than the SB’s are going on in ff’s life right now.

        • Have you looked into Tanoan or Tewa words? That could lead down some interesting rabbit holes for you.

          • @melanie – I think you suggested the Tewa name for Pikes Peak was the English equiv of “sun”. Not sure if that’s partially where Shrine of the Sun gets its name, but it would seem relevant in My War For Me if one connects this with the part about making first pass 250 degrees into the sun.

            I have not tried yet to transform the poem with Tewa nor Tanoan.

          • Hi EC. Nope, that was not my suggestion. Not sure, but I’d suppose that Pike’s Peak may be a bit too far north for Tewa to apply.

            However, some alliterations in the poem do seem to sound slightly puebloan to me.

  24. The reason, I said forrest was going to give me a paddle, spank me is because, title, deed.forrest got a spanking for doing a bad deed, even paddled when skippy got a spanking, forrest got one also.gold is ore, oar.paddle, spanking.forrest wouldn’t paddle me.goes with his father being a principle also.give me an oar, paddle, spanking.they canoed with a paddle, oar.maybeat the end . he’s giving away the paddle he used to get a spanking with or an oar he used.

    • @virginia diane, arvada – Fenn also uses the word “licking” in the same context to having been paddled or spanked (pg 40 and 146). For me, this is significant because “lick” in Spanish is “lamer”… and for me in the context of the poem of no paddle up your creek, this suggests Cripple Creek, or rather what used to be labeled Cripple Creek on a very specific sign.

      • Hi E.C. — I note that you continue to harp on Spanish translation as a hint-hook into deciphering the poem. But Fenn wrote both the book and the poem in English, and has said that no special knowledge is required to decipher the poem. For myself I count fluency in Spanish as a form of special knowledge, but it would appear you do not. If someone found hints to the clues that required knowledge of French, Italian, German or Russian, would you dismiss those just as readily as I dismiss Spanish?

        • @zaphod73491 – as does anyone, I go where the poem takes me. I see My Spanish Toy Factory or 17th century Spanish, or the corners of Main and French, and I give that language consideration. If it bears fruit, I keep going. If not, I let it go.

          Languages and linguistics are influenced and morphed by necessity and trade. To solve Fenn’s poem, rather to be in the chase, one needs special knowledge of following directions, using a thesaurus (the etymology of “treasure”) and a dictionary, pre-frontal cortex skills to imagine different scenarios before investing in a reasonable option, and ambition to keep going after one or more failed attempts. These are considered special knowledge depending one’s base capacity. Like everything about this puzzle, it’s a matter of perspective.

          For me, Malagasy and Spanish are bearing fruit. For me, French to a degree is interesting from the perspective and story of La Buse. For you, perhaps just a harp.

        • zaphod –

          I think E.C. is on the right path about the Spanish language being used. IMO you could change one little word in the poem to Spanish – and it would place you in the right canyon. It’s not a hard word and everyone knows it – so no special knowledge is needed.

          • Inthechaseto
            Come on now, that’s just ridiculous as anyone can pick out a word and change it to what ever they want to so it would place them where they it to be. we all know how to read the poem now but everyone is ripping it apart to make versions fit their solves…IMHO

          • Is any language needed other than the language the poem was written in? Fenn stated that Latin will not aid to finding the treasure. Latin is a root of many languages… was this a hint that another form of lingo is not necessary?

            This is not to say that if you’re using names of places to match the poem… the given name has to be in English… [ I don’t like using names, but that’s me ] but to change a word from English to another language forcing it to change it’s meaning or reference, is that not changing the poem? or in the very least force fitting a clue.

            It’s one thing to use the many meanings of a word within the poem… it’s another to change the Language to make that meaning fit one solve. And why only Spanish? why not french, why not a Native American language or Vietnamese, the choices are many.

            EC stated;
            Languages and linguistics are influenced and morphed by necessity and trade. To solve Fenn’s poem, rather to be in the chase, one needs special knowledge of following directions, using a thesaurus (the etymology of “treasure”) and a dictionary, pre-frontal cortex skills to imagine different scenarios before investing in a reasonable option, and ambition to keep going after one or more failed attempts. These are considered special knowledge depending one’s base capacity.”

            I’m pretty sure in a Q&A asked by MDavis, no special knowledge is needed. The average Joe is supposed to have the same advantage as everyone else.

          • @Seeker – Have you found the chest? Do you have special knowledge of Fenn’s thoughts that went into designing the poem? Or special knowledge on how to interpret the spectrum of simplicity or complexity?

            When I code AI fuzzy logic, I have to use ranges of tolerance, expanding or contracting to filter entropy. There’s a lot of tweeking for trial and error. Your tolerance ranges seem exceptionally limited.

            The hubris around here is smelly.

          • EC,
            Cool the after burners… I put up what fenn stated. I added my thoughts to what fenn stated… pure and simple.

            And what is it with all this crap that one doesn’t have a logical comment if the haven’t found the chest… seriously, its the most dumba$$ response one can give.

            I don’t see any of us [ all 65000 plus ] with a chest in their hands. Voice your vast knowledge of what you know fenn did with the poem… I’m throw out a rebuttal and give fenn’s comment as possible contradiction to it. If all were doing here is braggin how wonderful we each know we are… and don’t want a reaction/debates/discussions to our comments, only a pat on the back and a Good Job Buddy…I’m in the wrong place.

            If ya worried about that smell… try a dang Tic Tac.

          • All these blasted big words on here…good thing I only look at the pictures and patiently wait for a couple of scraps from Fenn. It’s all supposed to be fun and discovery with some adventure tossed in for good measure…

          • @ken – agreed. It’s unclear to me why criticism must be stated in absolutes like it’s being presented as evidence when there is no evidence. At the moment, all we have is a big bag of words to interpret. How you interpret “straight forward” is not necessarily (and not likely) how I do. And we have nothing else.

            Seeker seems intent on dropping Fenn quotes each time any of us express something that is contrary to his interpretation of any given quote, as if his interpretation of Fenn’s quote is more accurate and a way to dispute a presented thought. Maybe it’s just me who sees this as irritating. Maybe it’s he who interprets my theory and communication thereof as incessant, annoying, and inflexible. I don’t know what causes his drops, nor why my reaction to it is such.

            Sorry if I use big words. I’ll start tossing in “dumba$$” here and there.

          • Since I like you both, E.C. and Seeker, allow me to point out that statistics suggest that you are both wrong. How and to what extent your individual wrongness is, no clue.

          • @Jeremy P – no argument from my side. Until one is right, all of us are wrong.

          • Seriously EC, Now you’re going to complain I use quotes from the guy who started all this?

            Did you actually read my post? It started out with a question; is another language needed… Not unlike, other discussions, Is wwwh even referring to water at all? or did fenn travel the same route to hide the chest that the poem describes?

            Tell ya what, cuz I’m tired of hearing all this whining, from this point on, I’ll not comment on any of your posting… feel better?

          • Cholly –

            I can’t remind you – because I don’t know if you knew it in the first place…lol

            No – I cannot – it is way too easy to then figure the name of the canyon I am looking in……….

            But even then you would probably have a hard time finding it. I’ll think about it.

            I will say this about the spanish word…translation……..It’s not something that you need to know to find the TC.

          • @Seeker – I apologize. Do and say what you will. I acknowledge I am testy and intolerant today.

      • Song titled Cripple Creek. Some histories say Cripple Creek in Colorado was named after the original creek of the same name in Virginia. Interesting song written about Cripple Creek. Couldn’t help noticing that the editor was Ira FORD and the meter/rhythm is “REEL”.

        • Yeah,since i live in the denver metro area,I’ve been to the garden of gods.that whole area is a treasure for kids.my spot is somwhere around that area,just got to figure out what place.

          • So lucky that you live near your search area. Let us know how your search is going.

    • Speaking of Deed, the first 4 lines of the poem, and its ending letters spell out the word deed. Forrest wrote in the chapter “my war for me”,— “Longfellow, who was born almost 200 years ago, bent my thought around a little when he wrote. -“Lives of great men all remind us we can make our lives sublime, and departing, leave behind us, footprints in the sands of time.”

      Sand and Longfellow= Longfellow deeds, from the movie Mr Deeds. Adam Sandler plays Longfellow Deeds. Longfellow Deeds gave away a lot of money, etc.. Also Winona Ryder plays in the movie, and I think Fenn somehow has connected the Okc Bombing (4/19.. 419 is the area code for Toledo) The Ryder truck, is what carried the explosives that were used to bomb the federal building.

      I know this is pretty far out there for most, but its something to toss around, or judge.

        • If it was a daisy, then most likely. Lol. Ride has something to do with telluride..

          • Inthechasetoo- looks like a bell. There was a chapter called blue jeans and hush puppies.. Riders are a style of jeans.. Rider sounds like writer.. It all kinda goes together if you look closely

          • Hammer and Virginia…….

            You guys are treasure hunters? You could probably step on it – and not find it.

            I see (in the background) clouds, a frontiersman with a rifle, Mountains, and a train. Then I see 2 men on horseback, and what looks to be a man made cave, and yes indeedy – a bell.

            Then at the bottom – I see a rail fence maybe 3 or 4 rails, a road, and a rocky outcropping.

            Then if you take a look at the letters “Red Rider: they form the shape of a rainbow and also have the starting colors of a rainbow – red and yellow. And those are facts.

          • Hello inthechaseto. Colors of the rainbow, in its order:


            Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Indigo and Violet.

          • There’s just one more thing I want to add to the Daisy Rifle senario…..

            The boy in the ad is wearing – red, white and blue – this very neatly ties in with the Fourth of July – and more that I won’t tell about. A very tight package to the place.

            Just one little item out of many……

          • Into, you said “those are the facts”.
            What I see is a stagecoach and not a train. That is a fact.
            Goes to show that people can get off track if they are not in “tight focus”.
            Look at it again,top left. 🙂

          • Pdenver and Into,,,
            I don’t share much of what I think I know but occasionally will whisper some of it but seeing as this won’t hurt my solution in anyway,I will throw it out there and hope that it will help someone.
            Forrest says he likes bubblegum. He also says Skippy called him Bubba but meant to say brother.
            Did you know that the military loved bubblegum? And called it……………….
            Hubba Bubba,oh so good. 🙂
            In my honest to goodness opinion,it has something to do with what trail one should be looking on.
            Happy Trails everyone. Someone please go find it already. 🙂

          • Hello onuat. Interesting information you’ve put forth. Thank you. I believe Mr. Fenn truly was nicknamed Bubba, because there’s been other materials which seems to confirm this. For example, I believe it was someone that knew the family while in West Yellowstone. In the local newspaper, she calls him “Bubba,” if I’m not mistaken. As for the gum, I thought perhaps that is what you meant, but wasn’t positive. I’ve read the military personnel were served chewing gum. I was thinking more towards Chicklets. Hubba Bubba was introduced in 1979. Have you found the path?

  25. @Virginia Diane, here’s one of my favorite Spanish tie ins to scrapbooks.
    Paddle = pallet in sp. Think back to the SB with the artist pallets. IMO paddle may be one of the most spankin words in the poem!

  26. All,
    After reading recent comments, I’m thinking IMO that searching for TC is like being a batter at the plate, with Soren Kierkegaard pitching, T.S. Eliot catching, and Thomas Wolfe at first base. (I think F might be the umpire; and from somewhere I hear The Dread Pirate Roberts shouting, “Get used to disappointment!”)
    Safe searching, everyone!
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

  27. I have a tough enough time with English interpretations of the poem, let alone trying to apply other languages to it.

  28. Alright ladies and gents, the weather is marginally fairer today. I’m off in search of fortune. Kissed my wife and all of my pet rats (much to their chagrin) goodbye. Hopping on my bike and heading for adventure. Don’t wish me luck (not all luck is good and mine seems improbably bad overall)

    I’ll try to keep up while out and about but all I’ve got is my phone. Signal will be spotty at best and I hate typing with my thumbs. Cheers.

  29. To all searchers,
    Here’ one way to ” look guickly down”. Quick time in military time is 120 paces a minute. A pace is 30 inches. So 120 x 30 = 3600 divided by 12″ = 300 feet. This figure is mentioned at least twice inTTOTC that I can recall. Now go figure how long you tarry scant and you might know how far the TC is from the blaze. All IMO of course. Just food for thought.
    Be safe and have fun. I am!!


    • Wow, brilliant! I had no idea that could be related to military time. Person who was within 500 feet must have also walked past the blaze, then even further toward the chest if they were with in 200 feet. Dang that’s close!!! Any other thoughts how the poem could be translated in terms of time?

      • Brilliant, but it requires special knowledge which we should not need. So I don’t think it works. I believe that look quickly means to peek (peak).

    • Your light shines brilliantly Kanafire.
      Thank you for putting forth helpful info that I would never arrive at. Are you looking for a partner? Just kidding – already have one.

      Anyone else think Forrest may be a cross-cut of Osborne Russell and Nicoli Tesla with one large beer stein in hand?

      My stunted brain thinks more like this…
      “In love with Yellowstone” could mean ‘in love with yellow’s tone’ which according to Isaac Newton would be the key of G# or E. could also distill the interpretation to ‘in love with the Y (cup) of El’ which could translate in love with the holy grail… Which, of course is the core of every treasure hunter looking for his/her version of the holy grail.

          • SL – Kepler’s an interesting scientist to say the least, kind of like Bill Nigh the science guy, LOL. Can’t remember if you were referring to whitey ford, skippy, or another ball player. My brain is fried, trying to build out a complete, new solution in Wynoming. Heading a direction I’d considered 2 years ago following buffalo jump trails, Indian travois trails, glaciated passes, and hopefully some fish tales and pineapple pie in the mix. Did find a beautiful masque of sorts researching; at least it’ll be fun, even if I’m wrong again. Arm-chair, freestyling it this season. Hopefully, will be able to search in the fall.

    • Jake – please post photos of your trip! That’s some of the most beautiful country in the Rockies.

    • Awwwwwww…. Jake. Enjoy your time with mother nature. It is not an easy task to figure out the poem. To know before you go…requires logic and luck, imo.

    • Hello Jake Faulker. Don’t be surprised your area once more whispers “stay” to you. Enjoy your journey, be safe, and make great memories. Good luck.

    • I should be in tomorrow. Weather has hampered me greatly. Perhaps I’ll catch you on the way out.

        • Jake, take the drive up stream and around the bend south – it’s worth the dirt road. I’ve camped at the campground across the road from where you are. Pretty country, right?

        • Funny thing is Jake, those white tires marking the landing strip were red along time ago.

          • There are still some red tires left marking the strip.
            You have been here before 42, did you stay on the trail all the way?
            We plan on forging the creek at some point this week but right now she’s says to be patient.
            I think Forrest has been around here & is very familiar with this place.
            You must admit, this place is a great resting place for your bones.

          • Jake, my family camped there when I was young, and we were flooded out with an overnight rise in Taylor’s fork. I’ve been there 3 times over the past 2 years and taken the road south to its end; taken the right fork over the pass a ways. Look back through the “arm chair” searcher entries – I posted a photo from my last trip. I noticed you have also recently been to Spanish Creek. Been there a dozen times, even hiked Blaze Mountain in 1980. If you run out of fun searching, there are some beautiful hikes I can recommend.

          • Jake, I forgot to mention, If you are hiking, carry bear spray. We’ve never seen a grizzly there, but YNP relocates troublesome Grizzleys not far from where you are. (I don’t mean noisy U of M fans)

        • I got in some good searching today. I also got too much sun and ended up in pretty deep on a hidden mud hole. I did find a solution all the way up to a blaze so compelling that I hung out for an hour trying to sort out if I had missed anything.

  30. There’s a lot of if’s and and’s going on here. Did F really need to tell us that? I think we all make up our own minds. Is F running out of things to give as a hint or clue? How about it >Forrest When Forrest goes to the beyond or Heaven’s above do you think that he wrote the poem so that people 1000 years from now will need the books to follow indulgence? I personally feel that Forest wrote this poem so a individual 1000 years from now could figure this out and walk to the T.C.with only the poem. His books, like most books, won’t make it 1000 years. So it only leaves the poem. So stop killing yourself over these books and start working on the poem like you just found it 1000 years from now. It will for sure give you piece of mind and definitely shorten the area that the poem is covering. But only “TRUST YOURSELF”…..imho thanks Forrest & Jenny…

    • Timothy…spot on! I’ve interpreted the poem and only use the book for verification. I’ve only found two “hints” that have helped, in the book. I guess I’m alot (!) Like Seeker, I’ve read the poem thousands of times and then re-read the book prob hundreds of times. I stick with F’s suggestion of staying away from anything but the words and their meanings in english. It has led me north, that’s all I’ll say. A touch of desperation, curiosity and knowledge of the RM’S has given me fuel to figure it all out, I hope. My next adventure begins at the end of July, search #80. Maybe it will be my luck one!
      Just a word to all searching, ask and talk to the locals! They have enriched my search beyond my dreams. Hearing their stories and suggestions is gold in itself! Especially the local kids and elderly!
      Be safe and go in ¥Peace ¥

      • Correction…F NEVER said to stick with english, that’s MY interpretation. I don’t use feet, ciphers, latin, the Bible etc like F said. That’s what I meant.

    • I’m in agreement with you Tim and Donna, in regards to the poem itself. Other than I feel fenn wanted to present the clue by use of a poem because of the freedom of word usage [ note; not so much definitions but multiple meanings of word etc. ]. The one thing a poem helps with, is longevity.
      Not unlike songs that carry down through the ages… poems seem to do the same, without a written record of it needed. Once that 24 line poem is in your head, it can be passed on to the next generation. IF the book was so important and without the book the poem could not be understood /deciphered/solved… then I’ll never be able to solve the poem. Because I believe the poem was not written ‘just’ for this time era… but for other generations as well. Hence my abstract line of thinking… If my theory could not be solvable in 3009, 4009 and beyond, I’m scraping that theory.
      Another searcher once asked in the form a this scenario; A Grandfather on his deathbed hands a piece of paper to his grandson with the poem written on it. Tells the lad that his father gave him this poem and to go and find the chest, and now he is giving it to him… no other explanation given, other than the chest is full of gold… can the chest be still discovered with only the information given to the boy?
      It is an interesting scenario to consider.

      • Seeker –

        Your thinking baffles me. Do you really think in a thousand years – the book will be no more? With an information age – ahead of us – I think, history of the past will become MORE important. Access to such things – will be at everyones figure tips……in an instant. It’s my opinion – we should not limit our thinking.

        • When fenn started this thought process the “information age” was just a twinkle in the eye of the founder. However I didn’t say the book couldn’t last… I said; ” in regards to the poem itself. ” I never said ~ the book will be no more? ~ And I added, how songs and poems alike can last for ages with no written record. Fenn could have skip a poem all together and hide clues in the book only. Other authors of treasure hunts have done exactly that… they used the book to present the clue. What i’m saying.. imo… fenn used a poem because of how it can be recalled word for word.

          O say can you see by the dawn’s early light… Ok that might be a bad example because it’s our National Anthem. Yet do we need the written word to remember it?

          • That is a very good point Seeker. I know I’ve gone over this poem so many times that it interrupts my every thought and now I dream about it, not the treasure, just the poem. I’m sure it will not be lost over 1000 years.

      • Seeker, I like to follow ff’s recipe for serious searchers which is a little different than what you describe above.

          • I’ll look for the link tonight. It’s on at least 2 video clips I’ve seen and not unlike what some have posted here.

          • I looked for my video link and it was on 9NEWS in Colorado over a year ago but the link is no longer available.

            But off the top of my head it’s when ff says if you’re serious about finding his treasure read the poem 9 times then read TTOTC. Then basically try to find the hints in his memoir that stand out and lead you to the correct starting point. Once you find the correct starting point you can find the treasure…according to ff.

  31. intothechaseto,

    When enlarged a couple of times, I noted that the bottom right corner of the above linked book cover of “Red Ryder”, also displays the following; “It’s a Daisy since 1886”

    Great year, 1886! – On November 11th, Heinrich Rudolph Hertz proved the existence of “electromagnetic waves”, – ( An area that involves the use of x-rays and gamma rays in forms of medical procedure.)


  32. I was looking through Odds n Ends and saw this:
    uken2it on November 25, 2015 at 2:25 pm said:
    Sub again didn’t take or I double dipped. Oh, and the five most important things? Oops I forgot.
    2-I forgot,
    3-there is one thing in the chest that I have not talked about except to say I don’t want to talk about it.
    4-It is something saved especially for the person who solves the clues.
    5-I think that person will be pleased when she sees it.

    >5-I think that person will be pleased when she sees it.

    How can Forrest say that a woman is going to find it or is this a typo?

    • I’m sure it’s no typo. Fenn is being inclusive. It’s a not uncommon writing style to alternate pronoun genders rather than using the awkward he/she or grammatically questionable “they”.

    • Kevin,
      It could be as Zap said. Or can it be read that the item in the chest be something he placed for the finder, and the item relates to / is from / about a female. And that person [The female ] will be pleased it’s in the chest?

      ” I think ‘that’ person person will be pleased…” Compared to “the person” who solves the clues.

    • That statement’s been a while back. Maybe she saw it and is pleased. One will not know until a picture of the chest is sent to ff. And who knows if that will happen – if it is the thrill that is important and not the bounty – well, maybe the individual or she will remain in peace.

      • If “she”is to be pleased than maybe it’s a mirror and brush set in gold. Probably Peggy,s .
        There,s a little of him in the chest so why not include Peggy,the love of his life. His and her DNA. Remembered as one in the future.
        She,s probably wondering whatever happened to her mirror and brush set. To say what it is,would bring the wrath of Peggy down on him..lol.
        She will be pleased when it is returned with his bracelet .
        Heck, I would be pleased if someone did that for me.
        Thinking out loud. 🙂

      • Buckeye,

        Other “statues” have been used in parts of some solves. Why this does this statue bring thought? The meaning behind it means and equal justice. Blind to race, religion, sex etc. with a balance of the punishment fits the crime… as well as innocent till proven guilty.

        So you peaked my curiosity, what kind of item in the chest could represent this “she”. I have often wondered if an American flag is in the chest…. talk about time capsule… in regards to 100, 1000, or 10,000 years down the road.

        • It’s not the statue, it’s the “who she is”.
          Lady Justice.
          Re-read the comment (that wasn’t a clue either) with “Lady Justice” in place of “she” and you’ll see what I mean as a possibility.

          • And for those who are newer, this is related to the question of the legalities involved if the chest is found in a National Forest, where you are supposed to turn in anything you find. Although I question the comments about that to a degree.
            So what I’m getting at is that this comment by FF may mean that that’s not an issue. National Forests are as open to the search as anywhere else, in my opinion.

          • I got the lady justice part… I was wondering about the item placed in the chest.
            And this is all speculative in consideration… Fenn stated he thought of everything. Could this relate to an Item in the chest especially for the finder? Constitutional law maybe [ just a guess] Whatever the item is, it won’t have anything to do with it’s location of the chest, but maybe this was a hint to National Forest… Although a huge diamond would be great as well… That’ll shut ‘her’ up!

          • Yep. Several possibilities as to who or what “she” is.
            But a specific “she”, as in FF’s wife, is very unlikely.
            That doesn’t exclude the finder’s wife or girl, as that would fit into FF’s hint style, I think.

    • Donna M –

      That’s a great thought about a diamond – didn’t he talk about the yellow diamond?

      When I think of a treasure chest – and what’s inside ‘ I see pearls, I don’t think he has ever mentioned pearls?

      • Inthechaseto,
        It’s always fun to think about other items in the chest that were never mentioned… we know of gold coins, pacers, precious stones, the bracelet, the bio, even fenn’s hair…

        The question to this answer was about, is there anything contained in the chest that relates to the hiding place. The answer was No, by the way for those who didn’t know. Then fenn adds this one item and that person will be pleased when she sees it. I know you know, that a lot of folks went off on the “she” in this answer. But was this answer worded to help us think? imo that is one of the reason fenn stated what he said, and how he said it.

        Example; I would like to find the chest so my wife has a little nest egg to retire on. I also would like to trade my old pickup for a newer one. She has a few dings and dents and some hard miles on her, but she still purrs like a kitten and still has that new wife smell… But I really would like a new truck.

        When I first mentioned “She” what did you think I was referring to?

        I think of this Q&A not as a clue or even a hint, but a suggestion on how fenn loves the use of words… It’s not what you think it is, it’s what I can make you think it is.

        • Seeker –

          All I can tell you is “what” if found in my solve – which may or may not be correct.

          Forrest used both men and women in a pretty equal fashion – good for him. He placed in the chest – items for both……

        • Hello Seeker. Your comment has made me do a little deep thinking. Why not “he’s” going to like it? Now, let’s take the “she” and look at “he’s” look at the letters. First letter “s” now becomes the last and the middle letter “h” now becomes first. Possible theme or a way of reading the poem? Just a fun thought.

          • That’s all I meant by the post PD, to look at it differently than ones first instinct. I recall the women going crazy, as it to mean a woman may have the solve… some men stated the same. Other jumped into solution mode to think who She could be and how it related to the poem. I know of two searchers who have the “she” as an important part of there solve…

            My only suggestion here is, was this a clever way for fenn to show us how he thinks and writes? to make us think? It also reminds me of a story Dal told about walking through a door and how fenn commented on that term. Can we “walk through a door”? I guess we could but it may hurt a bit… best get a running start before ya try.

          • Hello Seeker. Mr. Fenn certainly makes us think. I thought a thought and thought some more and then I thought did I really think that? Or is it thunk? 🙂

          • Think of a horse, she’s a fillie or a mare, and they like apples or sugar cubes. Maybe a new bridle, one that isn’t crossed. One thing about this whole learning experience, it’s all how you look at it. Lia posted looking up the word “strike”, hundreds of definitions. Follow your own path, if you follow others you will be doing more erasing than writing. Life is all about turning the other cheek. IMO One question I am stuck on, Mr. Fenn hates texting machines, and rightly so, but then states to always carry a tracking device? This I find very conflicting?

          • Hello strawshadow. Have you ever seen someone at a dinner table with a tracking device? This past weekend, I saw many who sat at their table and most were texting. I even saw a young lady sipping through a straw, not picking up her glass, while texting. Not a conversation was made to each other. I don’t own a cell phone, although the rest of my family owns one. I rely on one of those old fashioned phones on the wall. Gasp! 🙂

          • Ok…so F said he still may throw his body on the chest…taking that, imagine I find it. Open it. Inside is a picture of Peggy, with an endearing message by F to her, asking us to return the picture. In THAT case, when F said there was something in the chest I know she will like, he Def meant “she” as in Peggy. That would be so romantic…F gone, chest found, and his last words of his love for Peggy right there! {sigh—}♡
            ☆☆NO snarky ‘men’ comments required, it’s a woman thing!

          • Hello Donna M. I love your thinking. Imagine getting one last love letter from beyond. Gosh, that thought brings a tear to my eye.

  33. All,

    Anyone have insight in to why Eric Sloane’s painting “Canyon 1991” got its name, seeing as Eric passed in 1985 so what does the “1991” stand for and who named it that? I have a theory but without further information i cannot confirm.


    • 19/91 hmm
      Have you read Hapworth?

      Sometimes I consider the “sees” in that statement the ambiguous part. Like in poker “to see” is to match. Maybe the ‘she’ is then a whole different third party that will match you (it)
      ? (Your wit)

      The 91 to the 19

      No.clue. I’m rambling/ free writing- just what came to mind.

      *if you could see the you that I see when I see you seeing me youd see yourself so differently. -Jack Johnson

          • Thanks, zosorocks1. I was pondering how many ways there are to interpret ‘quest to cease’. Quest ‘to see’, if you are looking for a voir or Quest ‘to see’ if you are looking to match ( as in poker) Either way the destination is the same. I think this a way to verify that one is on the right track. The mirror image. Just another way to say the same. As always, IMO.

  34. I’ve frequented this site for a few years but have never commented before. So, I thought it was about time to say Hello and Thank You to Dal, Goofy, and everyone else. I really love the sense of community that has developed here. So many intelligent ideas and kind sentiments are exchanged. Dal, you have done a commendable job compiling important information for us all. I especially like reading your adventures, you’re a very skilled writer and you take lovely photographs. It was in December of 2013 that I first heard of Forrest’s poem and I’ve been on the chase ever since. I have two wonderful search partners. Together we’ve had six BOTG adventures, and plans for a seventh are in the making. Our first five searches were in Yellowstone, the last was in Colorado and our next will be in New Mexico. Anyway, I truly enjoy reading everyone’s posts. They’re always entertaining and more often than not informative. It makes me happy to know there are so many dreamers out there:) Thanks Everybody!

  35. If you were at your spot, all the clues fit. How big of an area do you visualize having to cover?

      • Very clever, Decall! If there was an interstate I-11, people would be all over this. 🙂 (An I-11 *is* actually proposed — alas, it won’t go through any of our four states, and besides, Forrest couldn’t have foreseen it 6 years ago.)

    • Yes.
      I broke down the 9 clues from the poem into 9 numbers.
      A set used as an Ottendorf Cypher revealing 3 sets of page-line-word, to be used on the book TTOTC.
      And I got McDonald’s Happy Meal!
      Look quickly down for the prize.

      Just kidding, lol.

    • Seriously, Timw, FF has said “don’t mess with my poem” or something to that affect. Also that his poem and clues were “straight forward”.
      I really doubt that there’s a code of any kind.

      He’s also said that a person has to put in the work. To me that means looking for solves to each of the 9 clues (which we don’t know for sure what they are).

      He’s said it’s difficult but not impossible. And that “Indulgence” (the treasure chest) won’t likely be found by accident.

      I think the clues are along the lines of “go here” and “follow this”, and I think the chest is hidden by terrain so that it’s not going to be seen casually.
      But FF has also said that he can’t see someone within 12 feet (someone else brought up that distance) and looking for the treasure to not find it.

      That’s some info and some opinions, but I hope it helps you out.

  36. Who was it on here that wasn’t Italian and wasn’t a notary and didn’t star in spaghetti westerns? Was it 42? or ?

  37. Seeker,
    Respectfully . I do not know you. But please keep posting the correct F.Fenn quote when he is misquoted. Just as Goofy keeps everyone here civil, you are keeping the Fenn quote’s on track. If that makes sense. More power to you!

    • Kanafire,

      I’ll be honest with you… I didn’t hold much importance to SB’s, comment, statements or even Q&A’s as most do. They seemed to confuse me more, similar to the book. Like most from the start of this challenge I was ‘hoping’ fenn was handing out additional clues, then I quickly dismiss that. [ all I’ll say is two words ‘useless clues’ debate ] Don’t get me wrong ~ I see fenn’s comments as helpful, Informative, useful, but not clues. The man has put in so much time, effort, planning… [ 20 years ] it doesn’t make sense to me that he will hand out ‘clues’ on a golden platter just to lead us on a leash to the trove… he wants us to work just as hard as he did… imo.

      This challenge, for me, is not about getting folks back out to the wiles of nature but to find the adventure in the challenge it self. While the poem and the lure of a gold pot at the end of a rainbow kick started this, and as fenn stated; the poem has done it job well… Some call fenn a wordsmith and I have to agree to a point. I see a very clever use of words; It’s not what I say, it’s what I can make you think I said, line of thought. For fenn, the poem is straightforwards… we just need to read it has he intended… not like we hope it should be.

      I started to review Q&A’s and many other comments from fenn in order to keep my thought process… as correct… as possible [ for lack of a better term ]. Like, why did all those searcher indicate the first clue[s] yet didn’t know, when fenn as stated how important the first clue is. I don’t see the first clue as “simply” a starting point… there must be more to it. How can we know beforehand, Yet still no one has the knowledge [ as far as fenn is concerned ] exactly what the clues are?

      I have post a radio interview a few times where fenn has stated [ going from memory ] You don’t need to read my book, you need to decipher the clues. I deliberately posted this for two reasons. First, I found it interesting that fenn as repeated, read the poem – read the book, and now said, you don’t need to read the book… Second, I left out the next part of that comment, and I think only one other searcher called me out in it. The comment finished, The book will help with the clues. { don’t need to read the book?}

      So my point is, I’m not Looking for a solve to the poem, taking SB’s comment, statements, Q&A’s and forcing a solve from them… I’m back to the beginning to understand comments like the ones above, why searcher don’t know they indicated the first clue[s] why they all walked pass the other seven clues and the chest. I’m attempting to read the poem as fenn intended instead of making a solve that can basically work in an area of the RM’s… with only the names and places changed.

      Fenn has said; there is only one way that he knows of [ again not a quote, just recalling ] to follow the poem / find the chest… I’m looking for that way… to understand ‘how’ to read the poem.

    • Forrest gave a simple answer to a simple question. I do think it might benefit some searchers if they can recognize that he took a car so he was not driving to a place that was dangerous enough that you would need a high clearance vehicle.

    • I had to chuckle at this one. Paraphrasing – “what kind of car did you drive?”. Response: “A car”.

      • From the Weekly Words w/FF on the Mysterious Writings website….
        “*Plan a warm place into which you can retreat. Merry Christmas (Posted Dec. 25th, 2015)”


        I know that many may or will dismiss this as just a friendly “X-mas greeting” and a warning from FF to wait until Spring before you begin another hunt….but does it really mean that?

        If one were to apply this to the quest…..FF is stating something relative to how we should embark upon the journey….”Plan a warm place”.

        Now if we were to use “my solve” of the WWWH clue…..”Begin it WWWH” = the edge of civilization, a campsite, lodge, motel, hotel, etc.

        We all know that the warm water doesn’t travel with you, when you leave a place like this, so IMO – we now can actually say that “begin it WWWH” could very well be a lodge, motel, or some environmentally controlled place…..to reflect FF’s suggestion of “plan a warm place”.

        FF is also telling us to “retreat” – or to return – or go back to the warm place you are staying at.

        But once again, he is subtly hinting at what is “warm” and what could hold warm waters.

        Now to find the start of the path…..Easily DONE, huh??!! :o)

        Good luck to all!

  38. I guess that a sedan rules out the need for a 4 wheel drive vehicle. This does not effect my solution, but it might have an effect on some…Who knows? Not I.

    Good luck to all searchers and STAY SAFE


    • JD,
      Are you reading into, or not reading enough into, the answer?

      Just for fun… a sedan is a four door automobile. A four wheel drive jeep grand Cherokee is a four dour vehicle. Take in consideration what a coupe referred to in the 30’s and 40’s and right on up, to what a four door vehicle was considered to be.

      The fun part about the answer is… imo… the “yes” seems to refer to; may I ask… and the answer a sedan. while we may perceive car as nothing more than a car, and a pickup as a truck… a sedan is separated the number of doors and not so much the vehicle itself.
      3 door vehicle… two doors and a hatch back.
      Two door vehicle… sport car, yet pickups were two door for decades.
      SUV is a conversion of a commonly know car, and a pickup with a permanent cap and come with AWD, 4wheel drive, and two wheel drive. and most now come four dour.
      Not to mention in 2009 many “car” [sedan] came with awd.

      I also recall a story about fenn’s family driving there 1930 something [ a non fourwheel drive ] into the woods a distance to keep their belonging safe till the next season.

      If your going to use a “sedan” to confirm or affect your solve/location… maybe a bit more thought would be helpful. Just a thought.

    • If I were compelled to force a hidden message here, my brain sees Fenn poking at someone to get off their a$$ and finish their work. The etym of sedan might be “sedentary”, although he likes the word “banco”.

      • Why force anything? If that’s what he thought why not just say it and be done? Why would he want someone to go finish it when the goal is to keep everyone looking?

        • @JL – A few curiosities in logic and behavior for you to munch on:

          1) Why post anything at all when all has already been said, unless it is to help augment? His mark has already been made. He doesn’t strike me as someone who jibber jabbers for mental masturbation. I believe he has a purpose.

          2) Why assume or interpret he wants to keep everyone looking? Where’s the self-interested joy in that? If my published solution is close, the area in question is likely to become private land soon. Perhaps he’s hinting so that it’s is found before that.

          3) What if he has been communicating in a FORM of code? Wouldn’t that make a great story to accompany the chest story? Aide-de-camps are good with obfuscation, secrecy, and encoding messages using all kinds of forms.

          I realize my philosophy differs from most here. It’s just a philosophy.

          • E.C.
            I will admit your curiosities have validity. My philosophy entails that if it was to be found quickly why does it elude so many? Why talk of the next 100 or 1000 years? That might discourage some from beginning.

            Trying to force most things can end up distorting, breaking or warping an object. If you force all the pieces to a puzzle then the out come is not what was intended.

          • @JL – my theory on why he calls out the words 100 and 1000 is that they may be hints along the way, e.g. “A Century of Dishonor”, “The Grandest Mile”.

            Again, the philosophy I subscribe to is that he is dropping more hints with his content.

      • It is an individual or multiple person game, by the use of “sedan” in your context could be a statement for everyone to get off their a$$ and not directed at anyone in particular. Not wanting an argument, just trying to see the path in your statement.

  39. As I said, it does not effect my solution. If I can drive to my location in a 2-WD Sedan (normal car) – I certainly can drive a high-clearance, 4-WD or AWD vehicle there. So, I do not think that I am over, or under, thinking it.

    We each will read into any post what we “need” it to say to fit our solve.

    In this case, I “need” nothing, so it can be a Ford, a Chevy, a Jeep or a Subaru. It can be a 2-WD or 4-WD or AWD, it really makes no difference.

    Good luck to all and STAY SAFE


    • Like I said… just for fun… You said; “I guess that a sedan rules out the need for a 4 wheel drive vehicle.”
      I agree that this doesn’t help as far as getting closer to the chest… in reference to a clue or hint.
      My point is, how fenn words things.
      The answer does not rule out a four wheel drive vehicle that he may or may not have used to get to where he wanted to be.

      Fenn was asked later: was it a 2 door or a 4 door? He answered Yes it was. While a 2 door can be considered a sedan… a two door vehicles need a hatch back to fit the definition. Like I said… this was all for fun. IMO this Q&A [ and yes I’m reading into it ]. it doesn’t matter what I drove, but I’ll give an answer anyways.

  40. It seems as though Forreest can generate a discussion by saying almost nothing. A simple question, a simple answer…or njon-answer if you prefer.

    • LOL… If Fenn said “Boo”, we would still discuss it. I mean, that would be no place for the meek… right? And why we wood need to be brave… that’s it, a ghost town. And you thought there was no clue… lol

      • Now’s that funny Seeker! Who would leave their 4 x 4 home? Not this girl.

    • PS, JD… I thought you would have picked up on my use of dour.

      Dour; gloomy in manner or appearance. I never did like the looks of a four door… well until I had kids. The necessity came into play.

      Like I said… my comment was just for fun.

      • Sorry – I misread – you said CONTRACTIONS – NOT contradictions – sorry. – You are correct, there are four contractions, and that is a fact.


        • I wouldn’t say fact… what if the entire poem tells on one spot and one spot only?

          • I guess I am slow today Seeker – What does your statement have to do with “Contractions?” I did see the “Dour” – thought it was a Canadian spelling, or some such – haha.

    • I count 5 contractions: 2 in stanza 3, 1 in stanza 4, 2 in stanza 5. The simplest explanation for his use of contractions was to maintain 8 syllables per line (which he perhaps notably diverges from only on lines 2, 3 and 7). The second line is the only one with 6 syllables. I note that he could have changed it from:

      “And with my treasures bold,”


      “And carrying my treasures bold,”

      (or something similar) without significantly altering the meaning, and by doing so convert that line from 6 syllables to 8. But he didn’t. Since I doubt anything about the poem is accidental, I propose he is either trying to deliberately draw attention to this line, or there is a clue here that required those specific word choices and he couldn’t put in the extra syllables without fouling the clue and/or the A/B/A/B rhyming pattern.

      • “carrying” my treasures’ bold would not have allowed for the double meaning. FF was carrying treasures but the second meaning of “I” was not “carrying”. Imo of course. Figure out who/what “I” is and you have your answer.

        • It would still work if I=Indulgence, so you must have another “I” in mind.

          • My “I” is something else and “with my treasures bold/bowled” is the best wording I think.

  41. it would seem to me that no place for the meek – would be no place for a normal car imo

  42. Hasn’t anybody looked at the poem for a coded message?
    Let me give you heads up. There is one.
    Half in the poem half in one of his articles.

    • Tim, while their are some who use codes and other methods… and I’ll only speak for myself… I don’t see codes. Fenn’s comment helps us to understand some things may not be needed to know…

      “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f” 

      Do with it as you see fit.

      • I agree seeker….we need to keep it as simple as possible. Straining over codes and/or ciphers, really doesn’t seem to be something FF would have done. He said to keep it simple…..and codes are not simple.

        IMO – I think the path involves a variation of the poem, but in a way that the path and poem will cause a “Why didn’t I think of that” type of result.

        We really must try and tune into what FF meant when he wrote the poem. And to do that, one must be willing to listen to FF and read his quotes…..because they may have something that is “hidden in plain sight” and could be beneficial.

        Granted, he says a lot that have no special meanings to the poem, IMO – and some of the words he has spoken are quite silly or nonsensical…..but what would you expect from someone who doesn’t want to give out information that could help on the hunt. He loves to say things that have multiple meanings and perceptions. Finding the right one, is the key.

        Good luck to you!

        Good post!

    • Lots of people have looked for codes.
      I count 5 contractions, in 4 lines.

      This kind of post leaves a very very wide open space if you aren’t going to be more specific.
      Unless, of course, someone thinks they have found the same code as you (but probably haven’t the same thing), and replies with “yes” and nothing more. That still doesn’t go far.

  43. For now I will give you a hint. Count the punctuation marks in the poem, words too. Give some credit to the lines with no marks at the end. Write down those numbers in order. One more small addition, from the punc. Marks and you have half a code.

    • Tim,
      You said; “…Let me give you heads up. There is one.
      Half in the poem half in one of his articles.”

      What articles do you refer to? I’m not giving you a hard time. Yet, we have been told all the information is in the poem to locate the chest… and the book as a good reference. The problem with articles being used as a code for deciphering the poem… they came after the fact. IF they are needed for coding or decoding, how could anyone solve the poem prior?

  44. The cipher is a general start location. Does nothing to solve the poem.
    That’s what I am seeing now. More time may change that. I didn’t give credence to a code either, initially. Those punctuation marks and total words are a huge hint, and the poem was structured accordingly. You cipher this half and you will see.

    • LOL, I don’t see any way to make heads or tails or rhyme or reason from anything you are saying.
      And frankly, since I don’t like posting things too far to walk, I’ll just leave it at that.

  45. Once and for all, Forrest has said CLEARLY – “ALL YOU NEED IS THE POEM”. He has also said that there are NO CODES, NO LAT. orLONG. All you need is the, POEM, A GOOD MAP and THE A LITTLE KNOWLEDGE OF GEOGRAPHY could help.

    Get that in your heads. This used to be a great blog helping each other but now it’s turned into a gossip blog.
    Bla bla bla bla bla. Or it could be bla bla bla bla bla. Forrest said bla bla, bla bla bla…..IMHO.

  46. Tim;

    There is great value in looking at the punctuation, or at least there was GREAT value for me. K.I.S.S….Keep It Simple Stupid – Stupid referring to me.

    Read the punctuation. Period = end of sentence. In one case, a question mark = end of sentence. Nine sentences = nine clues. K.I.S.S.

    I can not yet prove that this is the right approach, but it sure makes my life (and my solution) a LOT simpler. I hope to state it as face after July 23rd.

    CODE at your own risk! Good luck in your endeavor. – STAY SAFE


  47. Come on people Forrest spent twenty years working with code.
    You ever see a movie Bat 21? Spend an hour on code cipher. What have you got to lose? I found a code. The other half is in his blog. It may be it is just coincidence, but I highly doubt it.

    • Tim, you never answered my question… how can a piece of information… as you said; half the code is on this blog… before you said in articles… be the true way to solve the poem? The information you are using is after the fact.

      If those piece are needed, then you are saying the poem was not solvable from the start until this blog or articles presented them.

      You have at least six posting today about how we need to use a code, Yet ya haven’t really said a dang thing about it. What’s the point?

    • Hi Tim. I’m not one to think the poem is cipher or code related, because I had found many historic “firsts” in my search area, and never used a code.

      I think that we can all find instances that our solve will work, but in the end, you either have the chest or not?

      Of course I hope I am the lucky one, but I wish you the dame good luck.


  48. I’ll give another food for thought. Have you ever read your clues from nine to one. Do anything? Maybe make you rethink what is a clue?
    Creativity and imagination will take the prize.

  49. @Timw,
    An interesting perspective, to far to walk to apply that concept . It would entail a 1000 mile drive and 5 minutes to see but it does hold a possible solution.

    • Hey JL….

      Interestingly enough about your “1000 mile trip” comment.

      Last yr, my team took out first trip to a search area. It was approx 1100 +/- miles from where I live in ABQ, NM.

      Santa Fe is approx 50 miles north.

      FF lives approx 1000 miles from my search area.

      Hmmmm…thanks for that…..you just made another connection to the treasure that could be applicable.


  50. Never said you could solve or find the treasure with the code. At this point all I see is a general location to start. Go ahead think I’m nuts,

  51. I gave anyone that chooses to listen the basic solve for the code. Figure it out and then come back and talk. In the mean time it does not make sense to bad mouth ANYBODY for anything.

    • don’t see anybody bad mouthing you. just vague on what you’re trying to get across. As far as no lat, long, codes, and all you need is the poem goes, there has been discussions on what was actually said by f. Need to watch how others interpret what they think they hear f saying.

  52. IMO- each stanza has “several” meanings. For example : stanza 1 – is talking about f being in the mind of the searcher ( that is just 1 of the meanings of that stanza).One’s moral compass MUST be set in the right direction also. Each meaning of each level of each stanza takes the searcher to the next step. One stanza has a “KEY” which unlocks a door. Once that door is unlocked then “Everything ” begins to make sense and fall into place. I MUST say again “This is IMO”.

  53. Jas on,
    Hey there, you are right about a “KEY WORD” in the poem and you are about everything falling into place but what you haven’t said is the key word. LOL. I do not blame you but we are to try and help each other out. At least tell us what stanza? Please…IMHO

          • Hey Jas
            JD was serious. Right JD? Really though while you are looking at keywords Jas, do not leave out the title. It is as important as the poem is when you are breaking down the stanzas.
            And thanks for the tip. Hope you or someone can understand where we are with this. To me it’s vitally important to be able to complete the solve correctly. I hope…IMHO

      • I would agree that one must find the Starting point of the “blaze” (IMO -key word), before any other clue will work.


        FF was an outdoorsman and all outdoorsman if travelling alone, will normally mark the trail they make. This “blaze” is “not a human material ” – FF, which leads me to opine on that it could very well be a game trail and a trail he created…..sort of…”off the beaten path”….of one were to think outside the norm.

        If course, this is all just my thinking, do with it as you may.


      • Ah, the pangram stanza (minus the X). It’s also a double pangram minus J, M and X. Obviously your “key word” (my emphasis, to distinguish it from “keyword”, which is NOT what Forrest called it) isn’t BLAZE. That would be a bit too obvious. And JD has already teased about QUICKLY. I guess that leaves WISE, DOWN, QUEST, CEASE, TARRY, SCANT, MARVEL, GAZE, CHEST and PEACE as your most-likely choices.

        • hello zaphod73491, All I have said is IMO, and it is the path I’m going down. Good Luck in your search…

          • Hi JD — perhaps I misread your comment to Jas as only intending to be funny, when in fact it could be both a humorous way to reply *and* your choice for the word that is key. 🙂

  54. Recently someone has been impersonating Forrest on Facebook. Forrest asked me to point out that he has not posted on Facebook and he has not posted recently on any blog other than Jenny’s and this one.

    • Thank you, Dal. Since he has posted in the past, I wonder why Forrest Fire didn’t post this warning himself? He also asked Cynthia to make a post for him recently. I hope all’s well…

  55. One odd thing I see in the poem is the usage of
    “it’s” , “There’ll” , “you’ve” , “I’ve” and “I’m” instead of ” it is” or ” I have”. why is this? He uses “will” or “have” in other stanzas.
    Is it because of letter counts? anagrams?

    • Hello Jake Faulker. Great video and nice area. Do you really think JD should wait until early October? I would have thought around mid-July or early part of August.

    • Nice video. : ) Question: You really think f would want his bones in there? Looks cold to me.

        • We need to forge the creek when it’s lowest.
          I think the window is tight. One of the reasons it will take 1,000 years.
          42 knows this.
          Never made it to the destination.
          80 year old man can only make this 2 mile trip at a certain time of year IMO.

        • Jake, there are horse bridges you can cross over if trying to cross near the Qrt Circle 9. If you are past Eldridge cabin south bound fording may be more perilous. Are you trying to approach the old mining waterworks in the lightening creek drainage? Watch for moose, and grizzlys.

          • 42,
            We made it to the bottom of the falls.
            Couldn’t go any further.
            Ain’t no place for an 80 year old man at this time of year when the creeks are high, maybe in late summer, but I doubt it.
            Lightning creek was a trickle but too steep.
            Tumbledown Creek is a back breaker at best.
            Saw a big moose & told my bro to stop going any further, by the time I got my camera out, it bolted.
            I think him & Donnie treked through this area.

    • You may be right Jake – I will probably “Check it out” in July just because I can not stay put until October. May find it too swift, and then delay until October. Thanks for the info.

      Sorry it is too swift for your search.



    • Hello Jake Faulker. Great videos. Looks like the weather really cooperated for your search today. Beautiful scenery.

    • Hello Jake Faulker. Great video of the bear and cubs. Nice to see the grizzly population growing. Nice to see twins. I’ve been told triplets are rare. Only saw triplets once. One of them was a maverick and looked as if it wanted to ask the nearby bison, “Want to play?” Mama bear looked as if to say, “Don’t talk to tonight’s dinner.” 🙂

      • We live near Yosemite National Park, and Sequoia isn’t too far. A few years ago we were vacationing in Sequoia when we noticed an unusual number of bear cubs, and many were triplets. We also noticed an unusual number of rangers monitoring them with notepads and clip boards. We were told they were doing a study because there was such an increase in cubs and especially triplets that year. I never did follow up to hear more about the study. We love Sequoia because we see so many bears while hiking.

        • Hello Puzzled. That’s excellent news! Must have been a sight to see so many triplets. Habitat must have been supportive for the breeding.

    • Jake you found the blaze. Right there above your head. Who new. Information highway. Wow mind blowing.
      Serious note thanks for the videos.

    • Hello Jake Faulker. I like your video. I hope Fenn sees this and gives you title to the gold because I believe you were brave and in the woods.

  56. all – looking at the capital B- I see a – q – and a – d- could it mean to say
    put in the qrownd below the home of brown also if you take the m from home
    and put an l you get hole the B also has a p-and a b just trying to see what sticks
    all this is just my opinion – see what you think — frank

    • I don’t think “B” can be a q,p or d. Switching a capital B to another lower case letter already gave you 3 options or even a fourth with a lower case b. If you get more creative it could be ol or lo or even 9… is ‘qrownd’ even a word?

      What about the other capital letters? Many overlook or dismiss as these are used in other poem ~ a capital letter in the beginning of each line ~ do the other capital letter relate to the B being capitalized?

      Fenn did say he felt like an architect, and be unwise to discount words in poem, does this relate to those capital letters as well? or just simply poetic artistry?
      [ note, he may have said each word was deliberate, but that was sometime ago, and I honestly don’t recall exactly what was stated ].
      Stanza one AAIA… Association on American Indian Affairs. BANP gene and protein Homo sapiens,
      FTTJ ? ILBA ? SATI ? SYII ?

      Could capital letter counting be need? 5A’s 2B’s 0C’s 0D’s 0E’s 1F’s 0G’s 5I’s and so on…

      24 capital letters in each line with one line having an extra B for a total of 25 in the poem.

      There are many ways to look at capital letters in the poem. I guess the first question would be, are they needed?

      • If counting is involved, how about 4 lines per stanza, 6 stanzas, 9 sentences, 25 capital letters = 44
        Simple math if the poem require math.

        • @Seeker – we agree on this. Most lines have 8 syllables, but those that don’t would seem significant to me, e.g. the one with seven (of course) screams Seven Falls to me?

          • I know you believe seven falls is important. What do you believe is the reason one line has six syllables?

          • what if there was a seventh stanza, what would it contain? Following the pattern of the other 6, it would contain 33 words.
            That poem would then have 199 words, how far from the blaze to the spot….?
            Maybe there is a 33 at the blaze. 33 is what is missing, needs to be found, maybe. Maybe the 7 and the 33 go together.

          • Hey Charlie
            Timothy A. Here. Just to answer one of your questions, If you’ve been wise and found the blaze “LOOK QUICKLY DOWN, YOUR QUEST TO CEASE,
            So I’m going to go out on a limb and it’s very close. But f talks alot about a long rope in his books. The teacher chapter with pic, the bull buffalo pulling the car with pic and more. Don’t overlook anything.
            Oh, tie “square knots” they never slip and they are one of the best knots out there.

        • seeker I wasn’t counting – I don’t think its needed I was just working with the word Brown- maybe it was a bad idea I don’t know- maybe somebody might find something good from that

      • seeker I just wanted to show if that was what he meant with the word brown – meaning qround – I know a while back it was asked what he was trying to say with the capital B on brown so I was trying to see if we could work with that nothing more just working the poem – thought maybe it would be away to figure out if we could find something from that

        • I don’t have the exact quote but I recall that FF specifically said you can’t figure out HOB unless you find WWWH first.

          • puzzled I know my idea was just trying to see if there was another meaning for the word Brown or what the capital B meant may there is something there or may not

          • puzzle imo put in below the home of brown has another meaning – put in a hole below the ground below the home of brown in my opinion

          • IMO WWWH is the reason why the Browns are not small browns because they have a longer than normal season of optimal food sources due to warm water mixing. Forrest and his father were fishing guides. He knows where fish are large and why they are world class in certain places.

        • In my solve I have accidentally put 2 Browns in my solve before the spot of indulgence…IMHO

  57. If my solve proves to be correct, then i will hint that the sign posted at the point WWWH has been given a different explanation for it’s mutli-word terminology IMO than when it was originally placed there years and years ago when I first read it. The modern explanation suggests that it is just a semantic term rather than the old literal term which actually means where warm meets cold.

  58. Hey mensan
    I feel that’s wrong. It is exactly what f wrote. Don’t change the poem to help your solve. It is outhere. IMHO

    • UA,

      I’ve noticed Forrest seems to wear a lot of violet, indigo and blue.
      Indigo is the color between blue and violet of the rainbow.


  59. In the book, I see 5 colors of the rainbow( yellow and violet on the ID card,
    blue on the Main street cowboy’s picture, red in the “do not touch” and green in the picture(page 85)). These must be significant.

    are these the colors of FF’s rainbow? does anybody see orange and indigo somewhere in the book?

    I think the rainbow symbolizes his life and the colors represent his relationships. pretty much his colorful life.

    • UA – I think the rainbow – also symbolizes – start at one end of the rainbow and ride it to the other end where you will find the pot of gold imo it also means no botg – all this is my opinion

        • lol ok Virginia but the rainbows I grew up with were half rainbows with the part that we do see so my rainbow starts at one end and ends up where the pot of gold is thanks for your reply –frank

  60. @ Charlie,you said.”What if there,s a seventh stanza. What would it say.”

    There is a seventh stanza. You just have to find it. I believe I have.Finding the correct “key” will open up that stanza. It’s all about the end of the rainbow.
    If I told you what it is,you would go right to the chest.
    The key is in the poem,the stanza is in the book.
    Happy trails. 🙂

    • I agree onuat, scary…As far as the rainbow, I think f is saying his rainbow in reference to the value of his name. For me, that would be 22. So, 22 degrees. From a tangent of another place’s middle point to the spot. Now if I told you that, you would go right to the area the chest is in. Within 1 mile. That is where the “key” is used, to get you within 12″. Cheers, it is hot over here…

      • Charlie,
        What I meant by end of the rainbow,is the end of the trail.
        Imo..the key is used to show you what type of terrain you should be looking for and what to do when you are within the 12 feet. I’m probably way off on a tangent,only time will tell.
        Are you in the heat wave happening right now. Stay cool,drink plenty of water. Cheers. 🙂

  61. What if I told you guys the code I ciphered, quite easily I might add, put you smack dad on a hot springs. Would anybody change their tune on codes?

  62. When Mr. Fenn writes “at the end of his rainbow,” I believe he is really saying “at the end of his Raine bow.” Raine is a name brand fishing rod…….very expensive and nice. I’ll bet a nickel he owns one.

    • BW, I like the Raine (rod) bow idea. A couple others for consideration: at the end of his reign, he bows. Old farm equipment… a team of work horses or oxen attached to leather reigns and a wooden yolk- bow.

      Belated happy Father’s Day wishes to Dal & Forrest.

    • For a nickel I’ll take that bet. In the old days we fished with bamboo fly rods on the Yellowstone for cutthroat trout. The fishing was easy, mostly casting a wholly worm or royal coachman upstream for rising fish. Those days were fun, most fish in the 1 to 3 pound range. The small creeks teamed with brook trout and if you got caught out there at night the coyotes would surround you and laugh at you from a too close for comfort distance. My girlfriend at the time, Bunny, was terrified. I still remember how brave I was just because one of us had to be. The kiss she would share with me while she held on tight kept me focused in the right direction. That is one of the reasons why I love “The Chase” it brings back many golden memories.

      • While I’m loving “The Chase” I would like to share this. Yesterday on a search I met a Father, son and daughter on the trail, they were a really nice family. The son got altitude sickness and I escorted him back to they’re camp. On the way back he mentioned he had a twin brother. I asked why he wasn’t along for the hike and he said that he lost a leg in his two year battle with cancer. I wasn’t ready for that and tried to probe a little deeper. I asked him why he thought that his brother had been invaded by such a terrible disease like cancer. His response shocked me, he said “I think it was to bring our family closer together”. Then went on to explain how close the ordeal had brought the whole family. This young man of 17 left me feeling so good about our future. His maturity was something that I rarely find in many adults today, including myself. And how about that Father to raise children with such a mature outlook on family and life. This is another part of ‘The Chase” that keeps me focused on my search. Thanks again Mr. Fenn

        • Hello strawshadow. Thank you for sharing this with us. Tragedy can either pull people apart or make them stronger than ever. I’m glad to hear it’s gone for the positive for this family.

  63. Tim: not very nice to “smack dad” on Father’s Day! The cipher, as you’ve described it in limited detail, has too many degrees of freedom, which allows you to “steer” the solution in lots of directions. But I’ll play along. Per your instructions:

    Stanza 1: 0-1-1-1, word count: 25
    Stanza 2: 0-1-1-1, word count: 27
    Stanza 3: 2-1-2-1, word count: 27
    Stanza 4: 2-2-1-1, word count: 29
    Stanza 5: 0-1-1-3, word count: 29
    Stanza 6: 1-1-0-1, word count: 29

    Total punctuation marks: 26
    Total words: 166

    Hopefully your method doesn’t not involve converting these numbers into longitudes, latitudes or both. Fenn has specifically said that there is NO such hidden coordinates in the poem.

  64. Count the punc marks count the words in the poem put them together figure out how the lines with no punc marks fit and there you go a longitude
    Use Santa Fe nm as a reference

    • Timw: Using the degrees of freedom that you allow, it is not hard to come up with complete coordinates like 41d 8′ N, 110d 7′ W (which is certainly NOT where the treasure chest is located, but meets the restrictions on altitude and is within the 4-state zone). The point I’m trying to make is that when you allow too many arbitrary parameters (whether it’s word counts, syllable counts, letter counts, punctuation marks, reading forwards or backwards, grouped by lines, stanzas, pairs of stanzas, etc.) you can generate thousands of partial or complete coordinates. It isn’t a “clean” solution. But this is neither here nor there; as I cautioned above, if your system is used to generate coordinates, you’ve apparently decided to dismiss Fenn’s own words on the subject. I guess I’m curious how you reconcile that.

  65. TimW remember that name, he is your friend.
    How about the B is the double omega standing up?
    Didn’t do much for me, at least yet. Maybe it will for you.
    After all the time I have spent on this as well. I could not stand here and definitively tell which clue is first. And I could not tell you which clue is going to put me on the spot, and then I don’t have any idea how big of a spot to check when I get there.

    • TimW=friend. As you know, tomorrow is the Strawberry Moon which coincides with the Summer Slostice… the spacecraft leaves at 9 p.m. sharp. Please be wrapped in your finest robe and remember, regardless of how much your baby brother cries, to sleep on the top bunk! We love you and look forward to being reunited. Your name will be remembered. TimW=friend

  66. @ Timw, everybody has there way. Need to say it, like Seeker has been trying to tell you, or just drop it. If you found it, quite easily, then I have my doubts. And why do you use Santa fe as a reference? I don’t think that Santa fe existed to him when he was young and found this place. Are you using that as a reference because he said it’s more than 66,000 links north of Santa fe? You’re being very vague, while you are telling us to do something. Your “ah ha” moment may just be nothing to others. I would say it is best practice not to stay with just one method to your solve. Multiple ways to get to one spot…They should all fit.

  67. Let’s say it this way when you count the words and the punc marks. Write them down in order. Fing the longitude of Santa Fe and fill in the blank on your code numbers. There you go half of the code. The number you put in represents the lines with no punc marks.

    • Doesn’t your code tell you?

      I hope I got this straight… first half of your code is in the poem and must work with an ‘article and/or blog post’ [ something told/talked about outside the poem and the book and stated after the book release to the public, second half of your code] … then the code tells you part of the coordinates [ the starting point ] and you still need to finalize the rest of those coordinates?

      Ok that’s about all I can get from the lack of information you have so generously supplied.

      I’d like to ask one more question, however I doubt you’ll answer this one… you haven’t answered my other question[s]…
      as you stated; “After all the time I have spent on this as well…”

      How long have you’ve been working on this challenge?

      Because the answer to your question above is… no one knows. Not the searchers, Fenn’s family, friends, Dal, Goofy’s deluxe Wee Gee mouse pad, the magic 8 ball, All those folks who wrote books about how they know or even the man in the moon… This is fennology 101.

  68. I’ve got easily 160 hours into this poem. Write down my method of obtaining the code, someday I may say exactly what it is. I’m sure there are many who have already started I will not divulge the entire code it is gaining importance to me all the time

    • 160 hours is not a long time in Fennspace.If you have found something, great, I say perfect it. Who knows. But you borderline sound like you are saying “I’ve solved it but I’m not telling”. That doesn’t fly too far here. Especially with only 160 hours.
      I do believe you are trying to be helpful though, so don’t take this the wrong way. I just feel you don’t answer the obvious questions Seeker has asked. He does make some pretty good points.

  69. Ask , what do you want to know. I will tell you anything except the source of the second half of the code and what it ciphers to. So ask away.

    • I’ll ask the same question I asked before…I’ll even re-work it so you can give the best answer possible.

      How can information told after the publication of the book / including poem, be used for any type of code and still have the poem solvable prior to that external information?

      I’m not asking for the source, I’m not asking what interview and what blog posting… I’m asking how it can be ‘needed as part of the decoding process’ [ after the fact ] as you earlier stated, when we have been told by the author ~ all the information to located the treasure is in the poem, and the book as a good reference/hints to help with the clues in the poem.

      To be honest TimW… 160 hours wouldn’t even cover 1% of what FF has commented on, made statements of, answered Q&A’s all the interviews and TV appearances, book signings, vignettes, SB’s, responses to e-mails etc. over that past 5.5 years. But what do I know… ya might be a speed reader.

      • Hi Seeker — Having perused Tim’s website, I will cut to the chase for you. Tim *arbitrarily* chose the longitude as 106 (with no explanation as to why, although I posit one below), and by some machinations extracts the digits 603418 from the Poem to yield 106.603418 for the longitude. (Btw, the last decimal place only shifts the location by +/- 18 inches — beyond the accuracy of GPS.) Perhaps he’s saying that the 106.6 derives from the 166 words in the poem, though that unaccounted for 0 is pretty bothersome. But let’s move on to the remaining 5 decimal places: 03418.

        Working backwards, there are 8 periods in the poem, so let’s call that the final 8. There is only 1 question mark and 1 semicolon, so maybe one of those is his 1. There are 4 lines that don’t end in a punctuation mark — there’s his 4. There are 13 commas, 10 of which that occur at line ends, 3 of which are interior to the poem, so maybe that’s his 3, and the 0 comes from the 10 commas at line ends. This is all just a guess on my part, of course, but if his decryption is anything similar to this, it can be instantly dismissed. There are 120 ways that those final 5 digits could be ordered, and I see no sensible system for choosing the order he did.

        So Tim, don’t be coy — just spell out your exact methodology (which hopefully is less arbitrary than the one I strawmanned above). I can then (gently) tell you why that system is unworkable, and perhaps you can then steer your poem efforts in a more fruitful direction.

        • Zaphod,

          I think [ I know I have ] at one time or another most have looked into coordinates and other ideas for a ‘precise’ point, whether to use as a starting point of ending location.
          Yet it seems Tim doesn’t want to answer the obvious question, and once again tiptoed around it. How can any after the fact comment / blog post be a needed piece to the decoding of the poem and the other half of that information in the poem. Tim is basically saying that the poem was not solvable with the information we all had from the start.

          Coding method aside… where he supposedly got this important and must needed information, should have sent up a red flag… even after a whopping 160 hours of diligent work effort.

  70. Ok here is a great equalizer. I said I would answer every question to the best of my ability. I meant it. I have two pages of info I have not added yet.
    Go to forrestfenntreasurehunt.com
    Have a read mail me if you like. TimW

    • Not to spoil too many solves….but I think I may have discovered the “HofB”.

      I’m not sure if I should reveal it, but this person did live in Montana for 40 years.

      As I progress further with my theory…..I should know more, but this Brown, is buried in a specific city in Montana and is relatively close to BLM land, thus allowing the seeker to grab the chest and go.

      As for how did I arrive at this place? Hmmm….not quite sure…..was just mashing some things together to see where the information falls and it just so happens to fall on this person.

      This person seems to also be critical in helping develop some certain areas within MT…..making them “the first” for their category.

      The kicker for me was….since I began this quest, I embarked on “Finding Forest Fenn” using the same logic he did….when he went “looking for Lewis and Clark”.

      It seems to me, that the years he spent in WYP and Montana/Wyoming, he learned the area very well. IMO – if I knew a certain area very well, I’d also know it well enough to project a future time with me dying there.

      IMO – Montana can be the only place for the final location, because FF has had the most familiarity with – with not only the lay of the land, but because he is also a history buff, with more than likely, a vast knowledge of the locations and historical references to the land – enough to envelop and include it within this poem.

      Oh yeah….BTW…..this location, for what it is worth, includes a railway that passes over it.

      Didn’t someone theorize that the location is near some sort of railway association, or was that just another theory on a place someone should look for as part of the path they are on? I don’t know, but there is a railway that is in this area.

      Am I on the right trail? I sure don’t know, but thought it was interesting enough to help others…..


      Wish me luck!

  71. Timw- Have you studied the things that have been posted here? Over the years Forrest has handed out information to help not hinder those searching. Here is a link that will clearly show you that codes are not helpful. https://dalneitzel.com/2015/07/04/seeker/ If you still feel that that you must chase codes to figure this out then best of luck while others listen to Forrest so we can solve the quest.

  72. So just checking in from the boonies mostly but also to get you all on the edge of your seats. Today I found what I think is the solve. It not only fits the poem like a glove but answers a bunch of questions no one asks (and some that are asked often). I made it all the way but when I encountered “the blaze” I had been wise but not wise enough. I had to pull back and regroup.

    If I am right: i know why the chest is called indulgence
    Why a child would be more likely to find the chest
    Why you have to look “quickly” down
    Why it is “worth the cold”
    Why you have to have “been” wise rather than are wise
    Why you need a flashlight
    And something fenn implied that none of us noticed and many more.

    So preheat your ovens to humble because I’ll be eating big for once. Those of you who know me know i am never this definitive and that alone should have you waiting to watch me eat it big.

      • This afternoon. I covered almost 22 miles in 2 days before I found it and not just hiking either. I did some climbing for site seeing purposes not necessarily treasure hunting. As a result my body was already chaifed, stiff and sore when I made the trek to the location. By the time I got back in was so exhausted that I was falling asleep on my motorcycle and my feet were so swollen that my toe nails were cutting into my other toes. I took a hot shower and just woke up from an almost 13 hour nap. I’m going to recover a bit longer and strike out again. Around noon. As for where I am looking it’s south of nez Pierce creek (my home of brown for this solve)

    • Ok DYS
      You’ve caught my interest. As I have been on this one solve for sometime now. My wife and I made to the Blaze (my Blaze) and had to be wiser than the wise and turn back. It sounds like we may be on the same solve. I try to help as many on the blog as I can, but my solve is just that. After eating crow pie (2 times) before I can’t no I won’t give away anything to do with this location. Ahhh, the blog. After reading all of your comments to TimW (not me) I will say that I am very specific to who I share or help out. I will never miss lead someone nor will I try to give answers that I have no idea of. But you all are doing something right now that I don’t think you realize. TimW has never once to my knowledge said that he has or is planning to put BOTG. I think he knows he can’t come up with the T.C. so instead he will get his TC by notoriety. If you go back and review you’ll see he has done just that. I will not help new bees until they have proven to me that they have at least read and reviewed ff’s comments and video interview as we all have. I know it sounds mean but I have been at this for 3 years and some of of you have been at this for 5.5 years. Why step out and give help to someone who hasn’t taken the time to investigate the back round of ff and the TC. What a question, “Does anybody know how long the chest was in place before the poem was released?” Tim W is talking coordinates, can anyone tell why he needs to know that? If he did his work first he wouldn’t have needed to bother to ask that. But it is up to each individual to choose who they help and who they don’t.
      OK DYS, even on my last trip to BOTG I at least helped out with some of what I have solved and seen.
      HOW ABOUT YOU????
      You have really boasted hard here and we are all in for you so now it’s up to you????????????
      Good Luck on the search and Please be safe.
      Timothy A.

      • TimA not W, just to be accurate. There are many folks looking into this challenge and many different personalities come alone with them. Some are very secretive and post simple comments, for example; ‘My hoB is different from everyone else.’ Or If you know what the blaze is…’ or ‘I have decoded…’ with nothing more to add, it baffles me why they say anything at all… their not saying anything to start with.

        Most like to share thoughts and ideas…’my hob is a person or a place or thing… and other like myself attempt to add suggestion to what it may reference with a little summary add to it. But no matter what a personality another has… obsessed, braggin, helpful, or simply chatting with others who have found the same interest… I can not recall any information that has lead another to the chest. imo whatever is said here is to be taken with a spoonful of caster oil. I don’t worry if what I say helps another because apparently those who have told fenn what their solves contain or where they have been… don’t know themselves. If I was to give a correct idea to a clue, I ask myself, would it even help another?

        For example; How many feel that hoB is a single place, object, item, person etc? We have been told there are many WWWH in the Rockies, it’s obvious that there are many canyon as well, too far to walk seems to imply many of feet, miles or measurement of distance [ when thinking alone that line of thought ] so is it possible there are many hoB as well? Heck, prior to the comment ” a word that is key… no one talked about a word that is key, Now everyone magically has the correct word fenn implied [ the only word have have not heard used is “and” ]. Now I’ll add that fenn stated ~ some may have the first 3 or 4 clues… yet he doesn’t know for sure. This comment to me says, he knows if those ideas are correct or not, but does the searcher know?

        I get a gut feeling if someone was to mention any correct clue or two from 2 to 9 no one would be able to fill in the other blanks. We don’t even know for sure if the blaze mark the location of the chest, or is that clue simply in the Middle of the poem… and there is more to follow. I’m personally not worried about another’s solve… I’m here for suggestions, ideas, methods, thoughts with explanations, and discussions just to keep my one last brain cell from burning out.

        Anyways, that is my KiSS thought of the day.

        • I agree with Seeker. Actually, hoB for me could be 3 different things. Frog, Frog lake, or the Brown centipede. (meaning put in below a rotted out log).
          I don’t worry too much on what others have. I like to hear great ideas and maybe see if I can prove someone’s solve with my own.
          Hey, if you like someone’s thought, run with it, if not, why even listen. By now it’s pretty easy to weed out the noobs. It’s the ones that listen or ask questions and don’t think they can solve this thing in 160 hours that most of the time come up with a good idea now and then.

          • HEY what’s wrong with… oh! Noobs. Yeah, their cute too.
            Note to Seeker; call optometrist for appointment.

    • Hello Jake Faulker. Thank you so much for the video. I had always wondered what the area truly looked like verses what we could see in print. It looks like I have a lot to learn about fly fishing. I thought I would see some calm pools in the spot where the fish would be. Beautiful area.

      • Is that Sage Brush flats on the Gallatin? There aren’t flat plateaus once you enter the Canyon.

          • Thanks Muset, that makes more sense with surrounding topography. Perfect location to search (IMO) just south of Cinnamon mountain and Burnt Top as HoB, sunken forest to the west, Cirlcle 9, 320, and Buffalo Horn dude ranches. Winter Elk refuge… It’s the perfect place to drop in a Piper, borrow a horse, get lost in the country fishing or exploring. Forrest may know every draw and stream in the area. Problem is, most is private property, and none linked to Forrest or a relation that I could find over the past 3 years. Funny coincidence, I researched “Forrest Service” property using two rr’s and at the time the Eldridge Cabin up Taylor’s fork was registered to Forrest Service with two rr’s. It’s been corrected and is in deed owned by the FS who no longer rent it out. A very nice gentleman carpenter is housed there during the summer months. I stopped to visit with him last summer.

    • Jake, was that taken at 45.077923, -111.206354, off hwy 191? I always thought that must have been special to FF. Not only Joe but Peggy was there too. Defiantly made after his AF days, probably not long before Joe passed I would guess.

      • Hi Not Obsessed — that’s definitely the spot in Jake’s video. Very distinctive pattern of trees visible in Google Streetview.

  73. ACE here,
    Just got back from my first chase. It was everything expected and more. Took 2 attempts to get to my target. My son and I walked through nearly 3 miles of 3+ feet of snow in places. Tried to go around some of it and only caused us further from target and much snow in those parts as well. We thoroughly enjoyed every minute of it. The views and nature was phenomenal. I am doing what I promised and am filming from beginning to end. Only sidetrack was trying to avoid snow. Was still able to film and explain path though. Planning to return soon. Did not find treasure. Remember I will not discuss my solve but please know I have your heart in this as well that is why I am filming. Not much data space on my phone so limited to what I filmed. Just know with the snow so far this has been an enjoyable but challenging adventure and if I do find indulgence it will be even more worth the EFFORT!!

        • Hey Ace
          Glad to see that you and your son did get to enjoy the time ans place. Plus you got to enjoy time with each other.
          Better luck next time and thanks for being safe.
          Timothy A. from Illinois

    • Congrats for getting out there ACE. I didn’t know you were from Indiana. I can relate. Though you didn’t find it… your trip, it was everything Forrest promised wasn’t it? The Thrill of the Chase! 🙂

      • Thanks Jeremy P,
        Yes it was. An amazing TOTC the snow was relentless but looking back now I would not of had it any other way. Waiting and then my wife is attempting with me. Great time with my son. Next with my wife chest it no chest will or should complete this solve. No regrets. Well I haven’t seen the bill yet( lol). I text Forrest and gave him a special thanks so if he missed it here it is again. THANKS

  74. Now for a sincere request for all the searchers and lurkers. I will tell you my solve came rather quickly for me. I was very fortunate. You see I needed to start somewhere and was able to work with something that a few very knowledgeable people who REALLY knows and has studied who Forrest Fenn is. I had to start somewhere right?? I was able to run with an idea and very and cannot express enough very fortunate to come up with and perform a solve. Now is mine the right one in my opinion yes. So now I had a solve and time to try to contradict myself. I ordered TTOTC book and listened to and watched nearly all radio and television interviews. More than my fair share as to what my time dictates. See although I had a solve Forrest is deserving of my time. I got to understand a lot about him in this short time. Busier at work now so no longer really digging deeper. With my studies I found let’s say some discrepancies in my solve. So searched deeper and resolved my issues. This is why I also feel important for all to see. To Forrest, sir you are a maverick and now a pioneer as well.
    Reason why I send all of you this is because although Forrest has stated all you need is poem, good map, and little knowledge of geography, it is also important to know who he is and why all this in the first place. Although many ideas are great and beautiful on this site at the same time I suggest you stay grounded. Yes Forrest is brilliant but at the same time he to is human. Unlock what makes him tick and WHY he may have done this. Now place it into nature which he loves so well. I have learned a lot in last few months. Thank you Forrest and to all searchers.
    P.S No the knowledgeable people I speak of to the best of my knowlege are not on this site.
    ACE and all IMO

    • “P.S No the knowledgeable people I speak of to the best of my knowlege are not on this site…”
      And all that time I thought ya was talking about me… man did that deflate my balloon… lol.

      • Hello Seeker. You know the sound of someone holding onto the neck of a balloon and pulling it taught to let the air out? I thought that’s what I heard. 😉 🙂

      • I did not say that none of the people on this site have not had the right idea as well it’s just that I did not get that from this source

    • Ace;

      I am so glad that you were able to find such knowledgable people on the other site. People who were able to impart to you all that you needed to NOT find the treasure. Thanks to them, we on this site, who are so much less knowledgable now have the opportunity to find it, since obviously you, who are so much more knowledgable than we, have not been able to find it.

      We appreciate the insight – THANKS

      Just an opinion of one of the unknowledgable many on this site.


      • Haha come on now JD. I in no way stated that people on here do not understand and have a lot of knowledge of Forrest. Many of them have more than I will ever know. I only said that so people did not stop to see who I may speaking of. No disrespect to anyone here. I came to this site because I love to see different ways the poem can be crafted and one other that I choose to not discuss. I really enjoy your posts JD as I do many others here.
        Yes I am prepared to eat crow pie if for so
        E reason my solve is wrong. Right now was unable to complete quest but will return in near future.

        • So now you’re say it was my brilliant abstract mind… I knew it… whoopee cushion inflated once again.

          Hey ACE … now ya owe me a gold Nickel…lol

      • To all,
        I hope to soon. Only time will tell for any of us. I did notice a discussion of the gender whom opens the chest. IMO I feel Forrest stated that as a generalization that women love the bling while the man is more about the value. Not speaking of myself I am overly excited as to what is inside. All IMO

    • Hey ACE
      I have to ask, even though you have said no to the up coming question. Did the people you spoke to know FF closely and did you answer your own questions; what makes ff tick and WHY he may have done this? Sounds like you may be off to a very good start, I wish the best for you.
      Be safe ……IMHO
      Timothy A.

      • Tried to post this earlier not sure what happened. Answer is I did not communicate at all with these people. I only took some of their what i feel is a good understanding of who Forrest is and ran with it. Before that I did not know Forrest myself. I had to start somewhere. Do they communicate with Forrest I am not sure but I doubt it. I guess not what makes him tick is best choice of words but just try to know him well enough to try to understand why he did all this.

    • Ok Seeker,
      I concur to everything that you just said. I also have been investigating the possibilities of multiple answers for a lot of the poem and I truly believe that was f ideas from the start to assure that the poem is more of a guardian than a riddle. Did it take f 15 to 20 years to write this poem? In my eyes no it did not… He new about the location long ago, he simply and quite exquisitely I might add, took the rest of the time to fit many versions of : if it where me how would I try to find the treasure, and then he fit the words to match his thoughts. To make it rhyme was no feat for f .He’s been around the service for 20 years and in there all we do is run and rhyme all day. He was used to this by year 20. Either way I hope to continue talking with you, JD, pdenver, Kedar’s mom, Jake and many many more until I find the T.C.
      Best of Luck to you Seeker and all of us unknowable people. According to the other sight right JD…..IMHO

      • Hello Timothy A. Looking forward to hear more thoughts from you. You won’t talk to us after you find the treasure??? Gosh, I thought we were all friends. 😉 🙂

      • Ok Timothy and to all,
        I will give you a few good reasons why IMO Forrest did all this. But only a few I will save the best for myself but I will however give you this. 1. To be a pioneer in a particular resolve all have failed especially through childhood. 2 his fight with cancer. 3 get families back together and back to nature. 4. Same reason he has the bells. 5. He could not pass up the opportunity of reason 1. All my other reasons can be intertwined with the above in some fashion.
        Now as for how he discovered this place of course because of all his curiosities and adventures. Mainly and this is just IMO being a fighter pilot in the Aur Force he brought that skill set home, purchased a plane, flew over most of the Rockies and discovered this place of significance. Can it be somewhere from his childhood? Sure it can but I feel it is a place that is special only to him and we came only admire it ourselves once we know and understand him.

        • ACE, I was having fun with you before, but lets get serious for a moment; your 12345 reasons are nothing new. In-fact the book tell of his family and his battle with cancer, not to mention it was the premise that started all this. The bell were slightly different but for the same reason he placed is autobiography in the chest… to tell future generations that find them what it was like in this time. etc. etc.

          I mean seriously, if we’re talking here about a revelation … give us something we don’t know.
          I don’t know, how about the first clue. That would help much, would it?… at least from what I can see from all the blogs.

          • Ok seeker and to all, I will tell you in a manner that will have you scratching your heads. First the clear one. I gave you my LGII right. That’s one. Now it gets fuzzy. My 12345 I feel you do not fully understand 1. I did not write it in a manner to be understood. I do feel however that if Forrest is reading our posts he will get it. Now where it really gets blurry. I have bled on this site for all. I am often considered a complicated man even to my spouse of 8+ years. I even manned up when I exposed myself when Doesn’t Matter came to this site to get my attention. I am not one to waste people’s time. If I post I feel it has always been of importance or just thanking someone else for a good post. With all my knowledge I feel I mostly get poked at which is fine. I am a big boy and after all I too do not have the chest. So blind fold me and slap me on that spinning wheel. I can take it but will you throw the knife with blinders on as well or take true aim at who I am and why I am here.

      • Timothy A

        I do believe FF said that it took 15 years to plan the treasure hunt. I never heard 20 – but I could be wrong.

        It’s my feeling – that you can go without the coordinates – but only after finding them at home. Once you know what the coordinates are……as they do not lead to the exact treasure spot – you only know, where to park. Then the ground game starts – which after finding that part at home – finding it with BOTG is easy.

        Have a good hunt and I wish you luck……..

        • If it is so easy, why has it taken 65,000 people over five years to NOT find it…including you? Words are cheap!

      • TIM A,
        I think, and it’s all speculative… when fenn stated he thought of everything, this was one reason it took so long to finalize the poem to what he want it to be… He did exactly what we are doing, looking at this poem from every angle, dissecting it, changing it to make it work… and as he said; he is pleased the poem has done it’s job.

        Indecision is the key to flexibility… he chose the avenue of a poem… imo… for that flexibility [freedom of word usage and their multiple meanings].
        I like that word guardian, I think it fits well to… its difficult but not impossible and I warned that the path would not be direct…

    • Ace, IMO you are not even close to the area where the chest resides presently. I could be wrong but strongly feel that the area has been free of snow for quite some time. You should order a slice of humble pie. It has been a favorite among all searchers for 6 years. Be safe searching.

      • Thanks for the heads-up hear me all. In case you missed my introduction I believe back in April, I too do not go down a straight line. I am a city boy so I’ll bounce off the curbs a bit. Besides it was a beautiful place and will enjoy it even more with the blossoming of summer.

  75. I was going to change my screen name to “unknowlegable”, but now it seems we all share that name. Oh, well…..

  76. Calling all angels… Can anyone help me pinpoint any/all references in Forrest’s own words anout his rainbow?

    Thank you for any help to narrow my time trying to find it!

    • I’d like to help, but you only asked for angels. It’s lonely here at the bottom…

      • @Seeker – too funny you are! Letting you horns hold your halo us still classifies folks as angels, doncha know?

        Seriously, thank you Seeker, EC and intothechase for the quick answers. Much appreciated.

    • Twingem………

      I am going to post below 2 times FF used the rainbow….they are different.

      This written below is from Forrest’s website……

      THE POEM
      This poem written by Forrest Fenn contains nine clues that if followed precisely,
      will lead to the end of HIS rainbow and the treasure. Happy Hunting!

      This written below is from the book……

      I knew exactly where to hide the chest so it would be difficult to find but not impossible ………..
      And like Eric Sloane at almost-eighty, I figured it was time to act. So I wrote a poemcontaining nine clues that if followed precisely, will lead to the end of MY rainbow and the treasure:

      Then starts the poem…..As I have gone alone in there

      So, since I hate telling people what to look for……..WHAT IS THE GIANT DIFFERENCE IN PUNCTUATION?

      • Hello inthechaseto. Gosh, I wish I knew what you are trying to point us to, but I must be blind. For me, I see the one from his blog was done for him in their own words. I’m not positive, but I think he said a family member helped him build his website; perhaps a niece. The other, in his book, is by him. In my opinion, there would be a difference in wording and punctuations.

      • Oh Boy, I’m gonna hear heat from this comment…
        Inthechaseto, The first quote? you have up if from the web page old Santa Fe… Have you noticed that most of the informational contents, such as you just placed up is written in the second party? I’m not sure, but it seems that another help fenn set the sight up, and wrote out the web page telling from their perspective of what fenn wanted… hence the “his” and not “my’ from the book.

        I think it’s a long shot at best to consider that one as important as the original. If you also noted, the poem on that web page as the word “answer” to the poem in the book “answers” , which fenn was asked about and said one is a typo…

        • Seeker –

          I did have an explanation for the extra “s” in the book……….and I may have an answer for why he might have changed his mind about it later. I think someone (in the chase) changed their name along the way…..I don’t know the reason. Perhaps he decided not to reveal that point later – and just said it was a typo. It’s not important and IMO will not find the TC.

        • UA – Congratulations ! Right on……you are smart.

          The use of a colon, in the book……….now why is that.

          In the book he changes it to sound like HIM speaking. But still why the use of the colon?

          Here’s what I think……..It’s really the beginning of the poem. How could it not be…a colon is used in a sentence to preface (something).

          Like this………….

          The colon introduces the logical consequence, or effect, of a fact stated before.

          Like this…………

          There was only one possible explanation: the train had never arrived.

          • Colons (:) are used in sentences to introduce that something follows like a quotation, example or a list. [your dictionary . com]

            Is the colon from the book not introducing the poem that follows the intro of the challenge, and would that not be the proper use?

            I’m asking not arguing… like I always say ~ I speak American, cuz my Engerlish sucks.

          • all the places in the book where ff mentions a poem or a saying , he uses a colon(:) (eg: page 70, 75,94,101). All these are not the full poems but some of the stanzas and without the titles. However, he does not use the colon(:) for the poem “ODE TO PEGGY JEAN” which is the full poem, with title and all.

            so this makes me kind of question is the poem in the book, all the poem?

          • I thought at one time I nailed down the semicolon… heck, for that I only had to use 1/2 my brain. I would need to call my old English teacher for help on this one. Honestly, I’d like to call my history teacher… she was 4 years older than myself in 12th grade, and pretty as pretty could be. Um, what was the question?

          • UA

            Very interesting….

            You said “so this makes me kind of question is the poem in the book, all the poem?”

            I think all the poem is there……it’s directional. I also think there is a lot more to it – and it’s all in the book.

            let’s just suppose there are hints in the book that lead to a list, and that list leads to another until you have Yes, nine in total. I didn’t say it was easy. I just kept saying I must be done…….remember?

          • Hello inthechaseto:

            ‘So I wrote a poem containing nine clues that if followed precisely, will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure:’

            The poem follows the above statement.

            The colon follows/gives the information of the question one may ask, “What poem?” The colon gives proof to ‘So I wrote a poem…’

          • OK ~ If we are to start before the poem, and rainbow is a clue or at the very least important. The problem becomes “all the information” to locate the chest is in the poem. Would you not agree that the poem would need to indicate this somehow?

            I still have a hard time with something so important to be external from the poem… even if it is in the book. Words like unintentional, not deliberate, not in order in-regards to hints from the book keep haunting me that anything outside the physical six stanzas are not “needed”… helpful yes… needed is another thing.

          • Seeker –

            I really don’t think I could ever convince you that there are things in the book that are important. Just keep an open mind…OK I find that most in the chase limit their thinking….once they find something that fits……they are off and running in that direction. When I did my solve – I tried very hard not to be lead by anything other than the poem, the book and GE.

            All I can say to you is – if was as simple as figuring out JUST the poem – why would it have taken him 15 years to do it?

  77. So dys here again. I have not failed I have simply found 2 ways to not bring home a tc. This is being typed with my thumbs so I’ll be brief even though I am so excited I want to tell you everything. I did not believe it was underwater until I saw this place so I was not at all prepared on day one. Today I was wise and found a better blaze (you do need a flashlight) I think the blaze is light this is also something I did not believe until I saw the location. Using my better blaze and jury rigging it in hilarious fashion to the end of a stick and be water resistant I dawned some cheap waiders and went about exploring the cold water. The rocky bottom shredded my waiders so I hopped out. After several goes at this i poked my custom made treasure gig stick did tell me that the waiders would be of no help because the deep part was well over my head. I would need to dive it. I took out all of my swim gear so I had more room for camping gear. The irony is not lost on me that I have not been allowed to camp but really could have used my goggles and swimsuit. On a related note: i really don’t like murky / dark water this is an especially trying task for me. I’ve gone back into town, Purchased some things I already have to do something I am scared to do. Perhaps tomorrow I will have something more to report than I am an I’ll prepared coward.

    • dys –

      DO NOT DO ANYTHING STUPID ! what you are explaining sounds very wrong. We already lost one searcher and do not want to lose you. There is absolutely NO WAY FF placed the treasure in water – not even close! Have you ever watched a river flood? Don’t mess with Mother Nature.

    • Wasn’t there a comment about a 3 yr. old girl would need some assistance to get to the chest… maybe I heard wrong.
      While no place is completely safe by the definition of the word, the chest is not in a dangerous place… or something like that.
      Oh! and
      No need for a gun, all you have to do is run faster than the person your with if you encounter a griz. Wait, fenn could have just been joking with that one.

      Have a nice swim…

      • I almost forgot… you’ll need to dive twice… remember a 79 or 80 year old man had to make two trips with a 42lb chest… maybe a snorkel would help or a come along wench. Or maybe join the tin man and lion to visit the wizard.

        • Yep – and be careful how you remove all those precious gems……you do remember the chest is not locked .This might take you a long time. Maybe a diving bell would help.

    • Hello dys. Mr. Fenn did not hide the treasure in a dangerous place. Remember, he also said that kids have an advantage, but would not explain any further. Please rethink what you may be considering to do.

    • I agree with inthechaseto: the chest is not underwater — especially not under moving water. Don’t let your excitement and the thrill of onsite presence incite you to action that from afar would look foolhardy or reckless. Water is a powerful, relentless force, and fisherman Fenn certainly knows this. If his intentions are for the chest to survive centuries, he would not risk its precious hard-earned cargo against the capriciousness of nature, nor subject would-be searchers to the significant dangers of retrieving the prize in such a location.

      Many have said it is better to be lucky than good. In this instance, I would say it is better to be wise than lucky.

    • Dys – if you honestly believe that f thinks a ziplock bag can protect the stainless steel hinge on the dragon bracelet from moisture exposure while submerged in water for several centuries, then suit up for your swim, otherwise take the swimming gear back and get a refund.

      • Tonight’s homework on making assumptions. I agree with everything you have said except that it is not underwater and that what I am doing is dangerous. All advice given was being followed even before it was given. I appreciate the concern but it is concern directed at a situation that does not exist. Contemplate what things you heard that I did not say.

        I do love you guys and I really appreciate it but as a group this is really your worst habit. Know that I will not do anything risky especially if water is involved and the worst danger I face in this situation is getting muddy and cold. Bonus points there are only 2 ways I can think of that fenn can guarantee “worth the cold” year round… this is one of them. Cheers.

  78. I know what the question is. I don’t think earth can hurt it, under the right conditions wind might affect it, it’s probably already wet, and look at what fire did to the twin towers. Nature makes her own rules, James, so I try to not be absolute when talking about her. “PROBABLY” wet.

    *If you know precisely where it is you can probably retrieve it in any weather. I wonder if an ice covered river, or spring runoff was included in this thought?

    The chest is unlocked and the key inside.

    Don’t search anywhere an 80 year old man could not carry a heavy backpack.

    5 minutes ~two site. That’s all it took dys to find these comments, do these comments sound anything like what you are describing to us… Swimming gear, 6 feet of dark murky water, fast running river, needing to dive underwater.

    5 minutes can safe you 500.00 … hell, that’s a better deal than geico can give you.

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