Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Thirteen

pinkPlease click on the comment balloon below to contribute to the discussion of  Forrest Fenn’s Treasure Hunt. Please note that many topics have their own pages. Please scroll through the blog to see all the discussion pages. There are also stories, scrapbooks, searcher’s reports general information, tips from Forrest, a rumors blog and even email responses from Forrest. So please look around and if you want to make a comment please use the most appropriate page.




698 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Thirteen

  1. Joe

    You said that you wanted to talk to me about my circle theory. Email me at SculptorJDA at aol dot com

    Have a GREAT DAY and STAY SAFE


      • @Jake That was back in 2014. I’m betting more than a few “are in tight focus with a word that is key” now, but many more are unnecessarily complicating things.

      • And what does said key unlock? A possible shortcut? Confirmaion of location? It is possible to get in without key!
        I would think the key is as Forrest states: The answers I read wonky! Reading that way will help unlock this chase! IMO

      • My issue with FF’s tight focus comment is the arbitrariness of his clues. Say 2 years ago Dal or Jake or anyone was person in tight focus of the key word. If they missed it or figured it out but didn’t find the TC they would scratch the solve off their list. Forever missing the prize narrowly. Unlike traditional puzzles you do not know when you have solved one or more of the clues. For example I sent Dal one of my solves last week. Say my home of brown is correct. There is no way of confirming with 100% certainty, as a result of that fact I have moved on from that general area. Tight focus 2 years ago is meaningless today.

        • Golden Horse,
          I agree with there’s only one way to confirm any of our speculations.
          We can’t confirm anything until you have the chest.
          I don’t think I was searching when he made that comment though.
          Why did he use the words “tight focus”?

          • I was just using you as an example. I believe he used “tight focus” because it is a concise way of saying some people were attempting to solve a piece of the puzzle that could lead to the prize and that he was aware of it.

          • If you figure out “where warm waters halt”, you will understand why the word “tight” was used. I don’t think the word can help you figure out WWWH, but it will sure make sense when you know WWWH. It makes perfect sense to me now that I know WWWH and “I”. (imo)

        • IMHO – the key word is just the same as it was two years ago and so would be just as relevant today as it was then. If a key word is working with the area – it could be a name, and thus an in depth study of that name would be needed. It could be the name of a person. place or thing, but probably not an idea. Tight focus means to me – to explore every aspect of that name. I really do think some heads up detective work is needed in this area – in that – let’s say it was a person – and let’s say that person died – did you look for the obit – cuz sometimes it won’t pop up in google with out going to the city or other various web sites. Did you research genealogy of that person. Ha for that matter, did you do a genealogical study on Forrest? I truly believe this type of sleuthing is needed in the chase. Do I know what the key word is? Maybe – I’m guessing until the end.

          • Puzzled I am surprised by your response to my last comment. My point was that once you visit your final location and discover that you were wrong. You will go back to the drawing board. Maybe you will continue to search that area for another two years? But eventually if you never find the TC you will either give up or start looking in other locations. At that point it will not matter if you were in tight focus with the correct word because you can not know you have solved a particular clue until you have the chest. The puzzle has an infinite number of possible solutions with only one correct solve. Unless FF reveals more the puzzle is near impossible. Every solve is a lotto ticket. If 100k people are looking for the TC, there aren’t. It may never be found. BECAUSE… If you solve the first 8 clues correctly you have no confirmation. These lotto tickets don’t cost $1 either. These tickets cost 1-2 weeks vacation, 2000+++ miles round trip… etc. I enjoy the hunt because it gives us a reason to head to the mountains.

          • Goldenhorse- I don’t know what is about my last message that bothered you. IMO the poem has all the info we need. FF has said before that a person should be able to proceed confidently to the TC.To me that says that the poem will confirm the answers as we move through it. Right now I know I can go to WWWH. I figured out WWWH, not while looking at the map, but by reading the poem and thinking. FF said we have to think. Once I put aside the map and just thought, I realized I knew the answer. Best of luck to you.

          • Nothing you said offended me. Please don’t take my response that way. I will try to respond differently next time. You could be right. Best of luck to you.

          • Or, as Seeker would say, maybe we are reading that comment incorrectly. I think to answer those questions, you need to solve everything first that is in the poem. Then, his “aftermarket” comments will come to light. Maybe figuring out what needs to be answered will shed some light. That would be a good poll.
            WWWH, HoB, centipedes, capt. Kidd, Hopalong, etc…etc…etc…

  2. https://dalneitzel.com/2016/06/20/odds-n-ends-about-fenns-treasure-hunt-12/#comment-142841

    Could have little value & finding it or following the clues.
    I agree with the mindset & getting into Forrest’s may be what is needed although I think he just gave us all a window to see inside.

    I see the circle theory as:
    You begin at his first natural bathing spot & the treasure resides at another natural bathing spot, which would bring you full circle in my mind.

    • Interesting interpretation to the circle theory…one I had not thought of.

      Good luck Jake, whenever you go out again and STAY SAFE


    • Jake-
      I agree with JD that your circle concept is interesting,

      Is “his first natural bathing spot”…your actual WWWH? or was that simply an example?

      I ask because I have heard many people attribute his favorite bathing place in YNP as Forrest’s WWWH and wonder how the poem points to that place.

      I have been there and I think it is a great place to visit but I remain unconvinced of it being WWWH because I cannot see the poem pointing to it or singling out any other “hot spring” or “geyser” as WWWH.

      Just curious…I know I must be missing something obvious or there would not be so many who are convinced that it is correct.

      • Yes Dal,
        I think his first natural bathing spot is WWWH near Ojo Caliente.
        I could not find anything in the poem that leads to this exact spot but what I think I have discovered is the word that is key that pinpoints the general area, more specifically it is in between WWWH & where you cease to find the chest.

        I know you have been there & love the Vimeo videos & thank you & Goofy for what you guys do.
        This is my fav: https://vimeo.com/53872866

        The way I look at it is, Forrest would not want anything in the poem to point to the exact spot WWWH which I believe to be the starting point because he loved all the surrounding areas so much & are part of the clues in the poem, but instead used a word in the poem which describes this area known as YNP & The Greater Yellowstone Area or Ecosystem.

        What do I know? Could mean nothing.
        I only know what I think I know & that goes for everyone here.

        We are in the same general area & if there’s anyone I would like to find it, that would be you. You have put more BOTG that I know of any.
        Are you heading back there soon?
        I am going to wait till the water gets lower.

        IMO of course.

        • Jake-
          I’ll be back out in the Gallatin National Forest once or twice more this summer to see if I can locate my next clue. In my solution I am following clues, like falling dominoes, one at a time from my WWWH until I can’t find the next clue. I’ve headed through canyons both south and down. One way seemed correct intuitively but I could not get past a certain clue…maybe because I was thinking about it wrong…or maybe because I went in the wrong direction. So I started in a new direction a couple years ago.I feel that unless I get lucky it will take me another 10-20 tries in this new direction to extinguish all the possibilities I can think of. I am literally looking for one clue at a time. There is no master scheme that I am following because I feel at this point I have to be there, walk the walk and see the land before I can see the places the clues represent. If that doesn’t work I’ll try something new…but I do not have a complete solution or a plan..I simply go to the location of my last known clue and start again, keeping my eyes open and mind flexible for the next thing…even though I don’t know what that thing is right now. The ideas put forth on the blog help me think in different ways about what thing could be next.

          • Dal,
            Gallatin National Forest is where I think it is & more specifically in the Madison’s.
            You have done a lot of bushwhacking out there & shared it with us & that’s what it is all about.
            I hope the 10-20 tries can be done in half an afternoon although he may know of the best & quickest way to go.
            I am not sure anyone could have a complete solve without having the chest. My solve has a couple of small ? marks as some do.
            Sooner or later you got to put BOTG & realize if what you see & visualized comes to fruition, the keep going, so far for me it has not bared fruit.

            The ideas & postings on the blog have helped me get up to speed very quickly.
            Thinking & sharing……

            Dal, what made you switch to this are of your main focus?

          • Jake-
            I don’t look in areas that are too far from where a car could be parked. My clue places have all been built on the premise that Forrest drove part of the way…and so do I. That the place where he parked his car was not at his WWWH but more likely at just below his HOB. He drove from WWWH to below his HOB which is why so many folks have been right about the first two clues and kept going past the other seven…in my opinion…they did not recognize clue number three.

            Jake asked:
            “Dal, what made you switch to this are of your main focus?”

            I’m not sure what you mean by “switch”. It seems to me I have been looking in this area since 2012. Although it is true that my first area in 2011 was in NM. I quickly abandoned NM and began working things out in MT & WY. It is also true that I took the press out to places outside my area of paramount interest. I have never taken the press to my prime area because I didn’t want to expose my prime area to millions of TV viewers and because I like to think I understand a bit about what the press is after, which is:
            1. A good story
            2. A scenic area
            3. An area not too challenging for the crew too get to.

            So, in every case I have tried to take the TV crews to a lovely place with a good story and easily accessible for the camera crew. In some cases my search area with a camera crew was predetermined to be in NM because the TV folks had an appointment to interview Forrest and did not have the time, budget or inclination to travel to NM and then 1200 miles north to film me in my search area…so I came down to NM to search with them…

            This does not mean I don’t think those places I took them were not good places..(Posi-Ouinge, Tres Peidras, Red River, Whits Lake, Red Canyon, Black Rock Springs…etc) rather, they were not solutions at the top of my list. But I could still defend every one and demonstrate how the clues led me there, although the press rarely asked that question. They were too busy having fun filming the locations.

          • Dal,
            I agree, no one should search too far from your vehicle, maybe 2 miles max.
            I would think we would have to take alternative transportation besides walking at some point to help achieve the goal.
            Not far, but too far to walk –
            This line speaks volumes for me. I have to assume you are walking from the begin spot & you get this message when you ask yourself, how far is it to the treasure?
            – Not far, but too far to walk –
            Why would anyone tell you it’s too far to walk if you are in a car already?
            Because your on foot and he tells you it’s too far to walk.
            I do believe that he did not park on asphalt when he took the 2 afternoon trips.

            You changed your way of thinking from NM to WY & MT & just wanted to know the reasoning behind it. My reasoning has always been in WY & MT.

            I do think you could drive the whole way except for the last 1-2 miles.

            The media is very biased based on ratings to pump them up.

            I like the general area where you are now & keep going & sharing as we will.

          • Jake-
            I believe Forrest told us it’s “too far to walk because he didn’t expect us to walk it. He is telling us to use some other mode of transportation from WWWH as you go down the canyon toward his hoB. I believe he has suggested, at times, to use a bike…but he didn’t say that in the poem. I choose to drive Esmerelda through the canyon down to just below the hoB and that is where I begin walking looking for a stream I cannot paddle up.

          • Yes Dal,
            I think that is the main point about “Not far, but too far to walk”
            You will need some other form of transportation.
            Leading to this is the fact that he titled the second (TC) book after a phrase in the poem.
            Why would you title your book as the same as a clue in the poem?
            I don’t think you would. It would not seem subtle anymore.
            That’s why I think this phrase is what it is.
            Not far, but too far to walk.
            Alternative transportation it is.
            The question next is to where?
            How far do we have to travel on a float or horse or in a car?
            Sooner or later we know we have to walk again.

            “The person who finds the treasure will be the one who solved the clues in my poem and walked to it. No one will happen onto it”

            Throw the bike in water high & walk to it.

            It seems as though every creek I have seen except for one, you cannot paddle up.
            That creek is in New Hampshire, then again I have only seen 500+ creeks.

            I hope Esmerelda can take you there. She must have a few hundred thousand miles on her by now.

          • Jake-
            I’m not sure we are saying the same thing. I believe it is definitely possible to walk from WWWH to hoB. But who wants too? Its 15-16 miles and there is no need to walk because there is a road between the two places. I know Forrest has ridden his bike along that road as well as driven in his car. He wrote a story about riding his bike. I tried riding a bike along a portion of that road before the snow melted in spring. I would not do that again. Now I wait till later in the year to explore the area and I drive a car rather than peddle a bike. Additionally, my WWWH is different from yours. I do not use his bathing place as my WWWH…never have.

            I’m also pretty certain my hoB is different from yours. My hoB is where I believe Forrest parked his car and carried Indulgence and her goodies (put-in). He walked from below his hoB to the hidey spot, twice in one afternoon in my opinion..until I change my mind…

          • Dal,
            We agree on many things but we go in separate directions on the Madison, but yet still in the same area.
            I think your WWWH is at Madison Junction where the Gibbon & Firehole join to make the Madison?
            Yes, Forrest rode his bike apx 20 miles from West Yellowstone to his bathing spot, that would put him at Ojo. Why pay for a bath that cost 3 times as much in town. There was no road at that time. You bathed your lower half with your clothes & boots on & talked to the girl with the day pack & I got a rock thrown at me by a child while I was explaining why I was swimming there.
            Well, we have been there & enjoyed the warm minaralized waters there & was very theraputic to say the least.
            I thought the treasure was there at Ojo, NO, just a great swim & folly.
            How many people have swam or bathed here?
            I know of only 2 others, you & Forrest.
            I think it is the first clue. Hands down, without a doubt.

          • There’s one big deference what I believe about hoB from most y’all.
            I think the only person that knows what it is – is Forrest.
            Where it is – on the Madison River near his put in where he never returned to do the same as promised. That day never came.

          • Dal, I like your approach (clue by clue) and I’m definitely partial to your chosen general area. Two months ago I was leaning toward Colorado, partly because of its conspicuous absence in TTOTC, but more because I felt I had done a pretty thorough job of searching Montana and Wyoming for any reasonable WWWH I could come up with, and I was working my way north to south. That all changed when I found an unexpected clue in the first stanza (or at least believe I have) and decided that WWWH must not be the first clue after all.

          • Jake – You wrote in your response to Dal WAY up in this thread:


            I agree, no one should search too far from your vehicle, maybe 2 miles max.”

            I would like to explore Forrest’s use of “I will say that I walked less than a few miles” by quoting him from this scrapbook:


            “Avalanche Lake was a fairy-tale spot for me in the 1940s when I was young and could do anything. It was few miles north and west of where, in 1959, a mountain fell and dammed the Madison River that formed Quake Lake.”

            OK,…so looking at this topo map,…can anyone tell me as the crow flies how far “few miles” is between the Madison Slide and Avalanche Lake?

            If you read that scrapbook,…the actual hike was pretty arduous. Hmmmm…..

          • I agree totally E,
            I read that story many times & the distance & direction he stated in the book is correct to my amazement.
            The problem I had with the story is the 4′ wide 700′ drop & I know exactly where both these places are because I spent a lot of time figuring out if it was possible & it is but the details are shady.
            I am going by memory here so the feet may not be exact but this particular climb would not be doable for an older man (Rock Creek) & if you take the other route from the east, Beaver Creek, the hike would be too long as well.

            IMO there’s something in this story that doesn’t jive.

          • Jake – Thank you for those details,…but I really don’t know,…how many miles IS IT from Madison Slide to Avalanche Lake as the CROW FLIES per my topo map?

            I know how far, high etc. he HIKED,…but I’m trying to I.D. what Forrest thinks “few miles” is by the comment he hade about the DISTANCE between those two points.

          • I know that feeling James,
            We may have to partner up with a local when & if the time comes.
            For now, we will have to only dream or nightmare.

          • Jake – I’m STILL looking for the CROW FLIES distance between the two points on my topo map,…NOT the distance Forrest hiked to the lake from the trailhead.

          • I know what your asking E,
            But the only way it would be a few miles or let’s say 3 miles is to tunnel through the mountains or fly like a crow.

          • Jake – Thank you for that. I never knew how to gage distances on that topo map when I started The Chase and I still don’t. It looks like 5 topo squares from Madison Slide to Avalanche Lake…is THAT 5 miles?

          • The squares rep 1 sq mile on my map which equal 1″ & would assume the same for your map.
            So, do you think it’s at Avalanche Lake E?
            I like the surrounding area but I don’t think he hiked more than 2 miles one way from the car to the hiding spot.

          • Jake – No. I am making a point. The point is,…based on this Avalanche Lake Forrest’s Scrapbook example,…is that to Forrest “few miles” means FIVE MILES. Thank you for bearing with me through that exercise!

          • Did he say less than a few?
            So far it has been an exercise alright.
            Getting those kids away from there texting machines & off the couch has been a success.
            I am assuming you are looking in that area E?

          • Jake – My main solve,…most of which I determined in April 2013,…is in that overall area. I have come up with many other fun solves,…which I have shared since then,…but not on this blog. For example:

            The “A River Runs Through It” Gallatin River Solve

            The Aaaarrrrggghhh! That Looks Like Gardiners Island! Pirate Solve

            The Grizzly Restaurant is the home of Brown Solve

          • Kinda curious E*,
            What website are your solves posted on?
            If you don’t mind divulging.
            If you don’t want to list it/them here you can click on my name & contact me.

          • E*

            Just a dumb question, but doesn’t your TOPO have a scale on it?

            You are asking for “As the crow flies” measurements, I would think that a map scale would allow you to measure that. Just a dumb question.


          • OR – can’t you go to GE – bring up the same area – Right click your mouse – click on get measurements and measure it?

            Just askin’


          • Jake – Thanks for that great video in your comment below,…but can you I.D. WHERE on the Gallatin River that spot in the video is??? That would be helpful to my solve. Is it anywhere near the Fan Creek mouth for instance?:


            “There’ll be no paddle up your creek”

            Since we are ALL ff’s fans,…could Fan Creek be the “your creek”?

            The details of all those solves were shared via email with one searcher I was having with,…I didn’t publish them on the blogs,…yet. 😉

          • E*,
            That video was taken by me & is near Taylor Fork on the Gallatin.
            Page 99 in the book too far to walk where Peggy, Forrest & Joe were fishing.
            Around here – 45.077977 111.206140

          • Jake-
            Here is my problem with Ojo Caliente being the place in Forrest’s poem WWWH-
            It is a hot spring…it is one of ten thousand hot springs in the Rocky Mtns north of Santa Fe…
            The poem does not point us at Ojo Caliente…only the story in Forrest’s book points us to it…
            So if “all we need is the poem”…then how could WWWH be a hot spring? There would have to be something in the poem that points to Ojo Caliente…and I don’t think there is…
            Madison Junction, on the other hand, is a unique place..there are not ten thousand places like it in the RMs. So if it is Forrest’s place WWWH it is unique..the only one…and therefore the poem leads us there..because it is THE place WWWH.

            So I suspect you are going to bring up Forrest’s remark about there being thousands of places in the RMs where WWH…that is still true…warm water may very well halt at a hot spring…but it’s not Forrest’s WWWH precisely because there are thousands of them and we would not know which one to use. Forrest’s is unique because it can be found with only the poem. Hence Madison Junction…because it is unique as well as well known and a tourist spot….my opinion of course…

          • I think most of us have this problem Dal.
            How do we know where to start if all we need is the poem as Forrest has stated.
            As I stated to Seeker in a earlier comment, I don’t think Forrest would pinpoint the exact spot WWWH is in the poem. Just doesn’t make sense to me for him to give away the first clue as a freebee in the poem if that is the first clue.
            I think the word that is key in the poem gives away the general area which he loved so much.
            One of my other theories about needing the poem & only the poem is if you just use the poem it may take you 1,000 or 10,000 years to find out where the exact begin area is but why would you not take advantage of buying the books & trying to figure out the clues which I think are places.
            The word I found that is key is in the line of the fifth clue, smack dab exactly in the middle of the clues. Funny as well this key is also in the middle of the geographical area in between Ojo Caliente & where the last clue is (blaze).

            BTW, if the word that is key is in West Yellowstone & you look at the closest hot springs area, you know that it is Fountain Flats, the area you have filmed where Forrest’s bathing spot is.

            There’s a few coincidences that I found out after I figured my solve.
            1 – Double omegas at the end of both books – take a look on GE & you will see that Ojo is located on a bend in the river in the shape of an omega & where the last clue is also an omega shape in the river. He answered a question about the double omegas & said it will go to the grave with him (paraphrased). The first omega is the beginning & the second is the end.

            2 – Ojo was his first natural bathing spot & the resting place is a natural bathing spot as well. Both places have rocks placed by a human around these spots.

            3 – The poem comes full circle considering you start at a bathing spot & end at another.

            4 – The word that is key is in the middle of the clues in the poem as well as geographical area where to begin & cease.

            5 – You begin WWWH & end up where cold waters warm.

            6 – The second clue, you are going down a canyon & the last few clues you are going up one.

            This is my opinion or my imagination getting away from me.
            I will email you the details of all & if you would like to critique here, I would like that.
            You have already told me you would like to solve it yourself & understand.

          • JD – Thanks to you,…I was able to verify on Google Maps that the distance as the crow flies from the Madison Slide to Avalanche Lake is 4.52 miles,…so in Forrest’s Scrapbook,…that is what “few miles” meant to him. Thank you. 🙂


            “Avalanche Lake was a fairy-tale spot for me in the 1940s when I was young and could do anything. It was few miles north and west of where, in 1959, a mountain fell and dammed the Madison River that formed Quake Lake.”

          • Jake – You wrote (way down below in this conversation):

            Jake Faulker on July 12, 2016 at 10:12 am said:

            That video was taken by me & is near Taylor Fork on the Gallatin.
            Page 99 in the book too far to walk where Peggy, Forrest & Joe were fishing.
            Around here – 45.077977 111.206140

            That fits perfectly into my Gallatin River solve. Taylor Fork is a known hoB to fly fishermen,…so it looks like that’s where Forrest, Peggy and Joe “put in”,…just below it (but not during Spring runoff or after a thunderstorm!):


            “That is not the case below the mouth of Taylor’s Fork, which dumps piles of sediment into the Gallatin. Always remember, if the Gallatin’s lower sections are out of shape you may save the day by heading upstream and fishing above Taylor’s Fork.”

            That would be Brown with a capital “B” to a fly fisherman! 🙂

        • Simple, straightforwards, the book as reference, hint from the book will help with the clues… seem to say… went alone in there[ clue to be deciphering?].
          Helpful hint for clues [book?] warmer/colder water mixture as to ‘halt’ being they stop being what they were originally [ warm and cold ] an the usage o warm waters to mean he waters travels. or the direction of what you need to know. Where warm waters halt being warm and continue on o turn cold/cooler once more.

          Leaving the ‘answer’ to the clue as mixing in the spot he went alone in and what direction the flow goes. Canyon down may refer to how a canyon is created… flow of water carving out what the more common understanding of a canyon is…

          Not far but to far to walk relates to the ‘time’ this takes. which begs the question, analyzing what is a canyon?… simple answer is shear side and lower level carved out normally by erosion.
          Does size matter? or even distance? or is distant to mean feet or miles?

          Of course wwh could be related to death… in this case… the canyon down is actually a ‘hole’ / a grave. and might relate to heavy loads and water high. Ton of dirt and tears of sorrow. The end is ever drawing nigh… the reason fenn start all this.
          creek as a narrow passage… or poetically… going on… go in peace.
          NFBTFTW could means one foot in the grave… fenn also went alone into a cemetery on a cold night and was brave about it, as he sat on some guy’s marker. which is another word for a blaze used as a directional indicator.
          However that was in TX… how could that be the first clue? or is it simply the know where to start, start at the beginning… is the the circle we should be looking at… the beginning is at the end?

          Just like the bike… do we see clues too literally that we don’t understand them in alternative usages? We know we need to steer the bike, we just have a hard to to steer it as it was intend when it was built.

          So how can the poem point to a the mountain bathing? Are we seeing the correct way the poem steer us or what ‘we’ know of, that steers us.

          Dal, can you put the video in with the cheatsheets or important info, for future reviewing and newbies just starting to research the blog?

          Oh right… the previous comment is all opinions of thoughts and ideas… Please refer to the owners manual for further instructions… [insert smiley face, followed by three letter I.M.O]

          Yes… I was trying to add humor in my own dry, sarcastic, warp way…

          • Seeker said-
            Dal, can you put the video in with the cheatsheets or important info, for future reviewing and newbies just starting to research the blog?

            HA! You want me to suggest they go anywhere but where you are searching…

          • Seeker,
            You have quite a memory & imagination.
            I’m a little behind on my medication & need it to follow everything you said.
            I don’t think the video is a factual clue but a beautiful masterpiece of Fountain Flats.
            I know what your asking, how does the poem point to that exact spot where to start if you only need the poem.
            If you were a child & had little or no knowledge of the Rockies or where the treasure was, but you had the poem only & understood it in a way us adults don’t.
            How would you know where to start?

          • ok seeker – in the old blog I said that stanza one was a picture of what you were to look for at the end where the chest is – remember he used to sign his name with a double omegas – one was the picture and the other one was what you were to look for- think omega – he went in there – and then look quickly down – its not a cave – so to me its a pit in the ground – new and old is a hole – so now you have an old pit – he made a new hole in the bank of the pit , where he put in the chest (new and old) making the form of the omega – so to me when I get to the end I will be looking for a pit in the ground with a hole in the bank where the chest is – you have to know what you are looking for when you get to the end and stanza one is that all this is just my opinion . here is where you can reach me if you have any more questions -theoldpeople08@yahoo.com

          • I think “not far, but too far to walk” has nothing to do with walking on our feet.

          • Dal,

            Yes… But I was hoping you wouldn’t say it out loud. Now I have to chase the cat down and put it back in the bag.

          • Jake,
            I highly doubt that a child with little knowledge of anything could figure out the clues. However, My thoughts are this… a child, kid, or really anyone else needs to read the poem clear headed. I have suggested that the possibilities of the waters is what is traveling is what part of the poem refer to.

            Some see this as logical until the hit NFBTFTW. this is where a kid might come in handy… everyone/most [ adult blogger] see this as a distance of travel WE need to perform. Make up car trips, quads, snowmobiles, bicycles, horses, mules and even aircraft. Yet ask a kid what is more reasonable or what is it that the words in the poem talk about… I would say most will answer the waters.

            IMO this is where the book gave us too many ideas so take from. If all you had is the poem and no other knowledge if what it was all about… how would you read what is going down the canyon?

            By the way… this was talked about hundreds of time… I don’t think anyone could find a quote straight from fenn about showing the poem to a child. SO I personally use the one I heard in a video… that kids may have an advantage… and I don’t think it was because they read the poem differently… But sorry I’m not going to look it up again. This one is on you.

          • It’s not about how a child is going to figure out the clues as much as how to read the poem when it comes to a child reading it.

            A child will most likely see the canyon down as going down a canyon.
            no paddle up your creek is a real creek.
            Begin would be the place to start.
            Cease would be the place to celebrate.

            I already know I am wasting my tired time.

          • Frank, the reason you know it’s not a double omega, it’s one on each end, it’s in the poem. Begin it wwwh , halt is the omega. Quickly down your quest to cease. Cease is the omega.

        • I’m a believer that NFBTFTW is a description of “it” from stanza 2. To me it seems as if sentence 2 is describing “it” and that is clue 2. I also believe hob is somewhere along “it”.

          • Count,
            So if “it” is not us or waters… The most logical conclusion is Hint of riches new and old. Now if that is true, riches seem to imply what ever “it” is, is both old and new and “it” has to be a thing.

            If that is true… then the hint [thing] is not in the chest. So what could “it” be if it’s not in the chest… now we’re at transportation… to take “it” in…
            Dang that’s a lot of WhatIF if it’s is “it”. Are we back to the train thing?

            oooh! Now I get it loco… my head hurts.

          • I believe “it” from stanza 2 is water in the form of a river, a long river. I also believe it can be found on a map. I also believe it is one of the riches Fenn speaks of in stanza one, one of thoes types of riches we can all enjoy like so many out there in the wilderness. Is “it” new or old if it is something described from stanza one? For a while now I’ve believed some of the clues, if not most are the riches new and old. Somethings that have been there for eons and others that are renewing even as we speak. These things will continue to be new and old long after we are gone and dust. The more and more I think about the poem the more I believe some of the clues are very simple and easy to solve. And some clues(most likely the latter half) may be more difficult and elusive.

          • Count,
            I’m reminded of Halo’s question about the clue count…
            “Forrest, Did you intend for there to be 9 clues, or did it work out to be just right with 9?” ~ halo
            “Nice thinking halo, I didn’t count the clues until the poem had been finalized. Although I changed it a few times over the months I think the number stayed about the same.f”

            I think the number stayed about the same… hmm. This doesn’t sound like counting clues to be a specific numbers. But an overall combination of the entire poem. which leads me to think… 9 sentences simply gives a number to work with… a hint if you will, that the whole poem is a clue holder.

            So while I have fun with IT or canyon down or in the wood etc. I’m looking at answers, not at what I think might be a single individual clue… but how the poem works as a whole. I think fenn hinted [ subtle hint in the book ] 9 clues, to saying ALL OF the poem contains clues necessary to locate the chest… and why “it would be unwise [words in the poem] to discount them”

            So what happens is we see 9 and automatically look for 9, as lines or even sentences… which seems to ‘break up’ the poem in parts. This..imo.. leads to force fitting something to be a single clue and now we need to find the ‘next’ single clue until we have 9 altogether.

            I say… there can be any number of clues… to get the answers …to tell us what we need to know.

            So while IT is important to understand… I don’t number it as clue.

          • I look at the clues as Forrest has described, something that will get you closer to the chest. There are lots of places where warm waters halt north of Santa Fe and there are probably even more canyons so it is very hard for me to look at these 2 things independently allowing me to combine the entire sentence to equal one thing. You may look at it as many answers but I more look at it as parts that equal one answer and to me that is a clue. Honestly I’ve always struggled to understand past sentence 2 so for me to try and compute clues past that it just all seems to fall apart for me.

  3. Seeker;

    Thanks for the well-wish. Same to you whenever you go out.

    Why not just one stanza? I thought that I was being generous by stating that my “word” was within two. You aren’t being greedy on me now are you?

    You, being a thinker, and a “Seeker” should be able to narrow down the 58 words into something more manageable.

    What is my take on Treasures, chest and trove.? Nothing special. Treasures = the treasure chest and its contents.
    Chest = The same, the Treasure Chest, and its contents
    Trove = The Forest Service has special regulations relating to a Trove vs other found treasure. This MAY have legal ramifications for the finder.

    Why the bicycle video? Right = left – Left = right. Someone has something backwards. He uses the words, “To illustrate my point” as a lead-in to the video. This tells me that someone(s) has referenced an illustration in TTOTC or TFTW and that the searcher needs to reverse something in the way that they are interpreting this illustration.

    Is Forrest talking to a particular person – probably not, but possibly more than one person has told Forrest about how they interpret a particular illustration, and THESE people have it backwards.

    You asked for my opinion – you got it.

    Take care, keep “Seeking” and thinking, and asking and STAY SAFE


    • seeker I wrote you a long comment on your question on the old blog LOL and it took me awhile cause I only type with one finger I used to know how to type the right way but I cant now – but by the time I finished dal closed the blog so ill let my finger get a rest and ill answer you later

      • lol frank… I just recently graduated to using two fingers. Then I asked myself what took me so long. I’m in no hurry, take your time. PS. cut and paste my post so I remember what I said in the first place… I only use one side of my brain at a time… I should work in that as well.

    • JD- I’m a firm believer that the poem makes you change direction when you get WISE! West IS East. Then the directions would be look quickly up your quest to cease. Which would explain the reason the “AOE” marked in tree was upside down and made it more difficult to understand upon first view. It makes sense to me now and time will tell! The poem is circular and going each way will take you to the same point. Good Luck!

      • An interesting perspective John. Hope that it works out for you in your next search in Wyoming. – STAY SAFE

        Thanks for posting.


        • Hey JD
          I have to ask you since you put what state you were searching in just waiting for the water to go down some. What state are you now talking about since the”word” seemed to change your direction.
          Just curious I have mine and am not looking for another one at this point.

          • No “word” has changed my mind – not sure how you came to that conclusion. My solve is complete, I am searching in Wyoming, I am waiting for the waters to subside.

            All I said about “word” was that when I first started to develop my solve, I noticed a word in the last two stanzas that took me to the first stanza. This then led me to my wwwh. Nothing has changed in over three months regarding my solve. I have “Tweaked” a point or two, but my end location is exactly the same today as it was a few months ago.

            Good Searching and STAY SAFE


    • Ok word that is key is me.
      I’m not going to argue about the video [ ps argue is not fighting but present…] Just so I’m clear. I still have a very hard time that fenn is telling anyone anything directly or public leveling… I keep going back to the useless clue debate… while helpful some of those were to eliminate areas or places… nothing helped to get us closer. Not to say, he’s not giving information to help us think… but directly pointing to something about the poem?

      Yeah, I’m having a hard time believe that.
      Oh! and my slow response was because my Honey Dew had me doing a lot today… I mean, she thinks I have time for real life when there is a poem needin solvin.

      • Seeker;

        Thanks for the reply to the last question. I can see your point. As I said, he PROBABLY is not directing his post at a single person, but as I have said before, so what if he is? It is his game, he can play by his rules. Jake Faulker made a good point that because of Randy’s probable death, Forrest MAY want this game to end – and the sooner the better.

        What are your opinions regarding treasure, chest and Trove?

        Would you care to expound on the “ME” being your keyword? “So hear ME all and listen good,…” I would like to know how this became your keyword.

        Sorry if I was testy yesterday. It just seemed to me that you had asked a lot, and were not so willing to then share your thoughts.

        Hope that your Homey Do’s are done.

        Have a GREAT DAY and STAY SAFE


        • JD,
          The “me” was me attempting humor again… be patient I’m still working on that.
          You said Me as a Seeeekkkeer could figure it out. Cold was my guess as your word that is key, so my answer was… As a Seeker.

          Treasure, chest, trove, I have stated many time about their different definitions ans usages, even thought they can be said as the same. And the words seemed to be placed within the poem to emphasis those usages.

          You said, “Sorry if I was testy yesterday. It just seemed to me that you had asked a lot, and were not so willing to then share your thoughts.”

          For the life of me… it seems you’re the only one that thinks i’m ‘Not so willing’ to share my thoughts. Do you only read the comments below your own postings?
          The questions I ask here are the same I ask myself… so I’m interested in what others think about those questions. Other wise, I would be only posting with enough hot air, that could fill a hot air balloon, about how brilliant all my fail interpretations are.

          Jake was talking early about a child reading the poem… It’s been a while since I was knee high to a grasshopper… yet I do recall my favorite word. “Why”
          Is the Adult version of that word translated to “WhatIF”

          • No, I do not only read what is posted below my posts Seeker.

            Maybe I am just not “Hearing” you correctly as I read your posts. To me, and that is just me, I do not think of ANSWERS as sentences that end with question marks.

            Asking others the questions that you are thinking about is GOOD!
            …If both you and the questioned person gain insight – BOTH, not just one.

            I will stop here.

            Thanks for your reply.

            Have a GREAT 4th tomorrow.


          • Seeker;

            For what ever reason, I just have to recognize that you are one of the few people in the world that “Get under my skin.”

            I do not know what is is, but I will try harder to not respond to your posts.

            All that happens is that I expose a side of me that I am not very proud of.

            I offer my apologies – “You just get under my skin”!

            Have a GREAT DAY


          • JD,~ “For what ever reason, I just have to recognize that you are one of the few people in the world that “Get under my skin.”

            Trust me when I say… I know why I get under your skin. My language is straight to the point, very little fluffinnutter, don’t see the need for well-wishing, patting on the back, congratulations, teenage girl smiley faces and inundate my post with those and IMO or complain when others do not.
            If my wording, I think, possible, might be, maybe… doesn’t suffice my message to another, that is not my problem they don’t get it.

            Yes, I’m a friendly outgoing personality, with a sarcastic dry sense of humor, and that can BS with the best of them. And I get, that writing a post lack the true personality… however, I’m not 12 anymore, I’m walking the edge of 56… I’ll leave the fluffinnuttering to book writers and teenager.

            So yes, trust me when I say… I know exactly what the problem is.

          • “that is not my problem they don’t get it.”
            Dang Seeker, I’m beginning to like you more than I respect you.
            Gonna go eat some cow now.

          • Seeker & JD – you two are too funny. You remind me of Kornheiser and Wilbon’s on-air personalities. I’ll bet you’d actually like each other in person. Thanks for the entertainment, tho.

          • Yes, a wise person once said that we can only recognize in others what we also see in ourself. If someone gets under your skin, you are looking in a mirror. Suddenly, compassion and a desire to understand are easier to come by.

          • Melanie, I am reminded at this juncture about a Smarter Every Day video having to do with magnets and polarization. Bottom line is… Opossites attract.
            To connect this comment Chase related… I am reminded by (magnets) polarization that there are a North and South Pole which are refered to as (if I’m not mistaken) + and -. That leads me to f saying that in reference to + and – (i.e. math) he is not very good at geography. What if one were to find something mathematically geographic? I have found such a place, IMO, in my solve.
            BOTG, after TFTW, planned 7-16-16.

          • Hi Slurbs. I’m glad to have given you a segue to explain your thoughts. An interesting approach, and I wish you luck. The 2nd half of July is shaping up to be a real cliff hanger.

          • A peanut butter and marshmellow sandwich might taste pretty good
            to most. You might try serving a little to your guests on the 4th

            Just a thought


        • Yes James,
          There is quite a cloud lingering over what was once a solid solve.
          Still a bunch of searchers in denial here & we will have to let them go by the way side.
          The future is bright. I see a new moon soon.

  4. Something that I have not heard anyone mention are the references in the book and poem in regards to honesty and trust. Thinking back from Vietnam, art dealers, plane instruments, politicians, straight forward, an innocent child, Indians, etc, etc, trust and honesty just reverberate through out.

  5. So, I just emailed and got a reply from Destin, creator of ‘Smarter Everyday’! He had not heard about the Chase. Hoping he gets into it and we see him on here soon!

    • What bothers me about this box is there is no bronze box in here.
      We need to get back out there in the box canyon & box it in.
      But we need to keep our minds in the box while our bodies search in the box canyon. Are you feeling boxed in?

        • Searched in a double box canyon & never saw a fox. 2 moose, 1 elk, 1 mama bear with 2 cubs that thankfully ran the other way.
          How many double box canyons do you know of Golden Retrievers?
          Maybe next time we will see a fox.
          Yes I would search with a fox GR.

          • I don’t know of any double box canyons. Where is the double box canyon, you were in?

          • Well GR,
            I appreciate your interest & input.
            There are quite a few double box canyons in the Rockies, but not many.
            There’s no way Forrest at his age could have made it there unless that person was completely underestimated IMO.

        • “Would you search in a box? Would you search with a fox?”

          I’d search under a tree if you were me.

  6. Who says we have to look in the box? I’ll think inside the box before I look inside the box. Introspect.

  7. I think this weeks weekly words are quite clear. Blueprint, think in the box and the videos. I am sure he doesn’t want to cloud people’s judgement.

  8. I know a lot of you have seen this video, but for those who did not, there is some great advice from Forrest as usual with most his videos if not all.
    “somethings are so obvious, you don’t wanna look so far down the road, that you don’t see what’s laying in front of you”

    • Hello Jake Faulker. Funny how he said what he did, but planned for his poem to last 100, 1000+ years from now. 🙂

    • Jake there are 24 videos in that series and 3 in the Air Force series and 9 in the Gone Fishing series. The links to all those interviews with forrest are on the menu, Orange text on the right, at the top under the heading Forrest Speaks. I have a new series of interviews I am preparing to post in the next few days.

  9. Seeker;

    I thought that you wanted a discussion. You asked a series of questions, I answered each and every one. No evasion on my part – why so much evasion on yours? If you have no responses to my answers, why don’t you at least give answers to your own questions…or are they too hard?

    Just hoping for a friendly discussion.


    • My reply is under your original post… Ya ain’t gonna find it down yonder in the back 40.

  10. Meet the faulkers….
    Just kidding…welcome, james. Jake is a fun contender, you have some shoes to fill.. 🙂

    • Jdiggins 😉
      My bro James is a prodigy of unrecognized quality.
      I will have to post it once again & thank you for it’s temporal qualities.

      A dreamer believes
      A quitter he grieves
      and so tells his tales of woe.
      But he who achieves
      what his dreaming conceives
      Has no limit to where he may go.

  11. Say,
    “Begin it where”,
    3 times fast, then again and again…what do YOU hear?

    Or say, in super slow mo, like a dying 8 track tape,

    Or, LOOK at the words,
    “Put in below…” take out the spaces…
    See anything different?

    Put an x in your poem and ask you figure that out, more goodies pop up…

    That’s all for now…
    All IMO…
    Happy Independence all!

    • Ha! I try saying 3 time fast with a TX drawl. Begunitwhear, biguntwear, bigunderwear ~ I guess everything IS bigger in Texas.

        • Funny thing about this video and another time I heard him read it. [ personally only heard of two times, in full, but i’m sure there are more]
          Stanza 6 seems to stump him. In the one he says;
          “If you’ve been brave and in the wood”
          The other time he stopped to get his glasses to read that last stanza.

          Does that mean anything, not really. But I would think after all that time he worked on it…he could recall it backwards.

          • Hello Seeker. It is interesting that it has happened during that stanza. Can you say the entire poem from memory without any problems? Thinking of stanza 6, do you believe it holds a clue(s) or just confirms one has completed the poem?

          • Forwards backwards and standing on my head…lol
            I do that just to get the blood flowing to my last working brain cell.

            I’ve given up on trying to know what is a clue, or in what stanza a clue is in. Chasing clues imo leads me to force fit a conclusion that a line or sentence must either have one or not [ a clue]. I think of clues as an overall combination. Example;
            stanza 2 is two answers to the clues within. Stanza 3 is 1 answer to the clues within.
            Stanza 6 also answers what stanza 2 and 3 refer to with hints for narrowing down to a point. Yet, the point is more than likely a combination of stanza 1 and part of stanza 2.

            Are you spinning in circles yet? The reading I’m working on at the moment is telling me the “know where to start” is the ending and looking at it from wwwh to me. No i’m not talking circles, i’m saying both points, start to finish, are the same point straightforwards.

            Think of it more as a view of the poem, from where, the poem is telling you to go.

          • Seeker,
            Are you trying to say that the poem folds back on its self or the first half and second half are describing the same thing?

          • Hello Seeker. The talent lies when you can sing and dance to it in your sleep. 🙂

            It appears you’ve been able to start answering some of the questions you’ve been asking. Good for you! Are you able to apply your thoughts to a map and start searching?

          • Count,
            I just posted under your last reply to me my thoughts on that… so I don’t have to re-write… please look there.
            And no there are no halves… the poem might be backwards, depending on your view… maybe a better word would be vantage-point.

          • PD,
            In one thought, the map is the poem. So “A” map to is look at [ a map with details of the land] is for reviewing or looking at what you don’t know of. Not everyone is familiar with the RM’s nevertheless where fenn hid the chest… So yes, it’s obvious we need to review a map… “GE and/or map.”

        • I was born a Yankee from upstate NY, move to Redneckville in Middle TN… My lingo is screwed up enough and you want me to try Cali style?? lol.
          Seriously, a waitress asked what I wanted to drink? I said, I’m fixin for a cup of cawffee, and I got the deer in the head lights look…

  12. I just wanted to make an observation that the man said get back “inside the box” and the first major conversation following that has been about circles and circular. 🙂

    (Not being critical. I just thought it was funny.)

    • Jeremy P –

      He did say get back in the box. I just want to put my two cents in on this.

      I tried putting things together in a circle like fashion – and that was fun and worked for awhile – but in the end – I went off the edge. The edge of the paper. I simply needed more room for what I was doing. LOL

      I then created a something that worked for me. It always seemed to me, that if it took him 15 or so years to put this together – IT MUST BE BIG or it must be in depth. There must be trickery along the way – and that is what I found along with the directions in the poem itself. In no way am I discounting the poem.

      In the end – I made strips of paper, that could be moved around – as there is always more than one way to do things. Just doing that one simple thing – helped me.

  13. lets see – I have -alone in there – but in below – quickly down – treasure trove- and in the box, new and old —— I wonder

  14. Jake, this was a post that had long ladder to climb to the reply button. So I thought I move it to the basement if others wanted to chime in.

    “It’s not about how a child is going to figure out the clues as much as how to read the poem when it comes to a child reading it.
    A child will most likely see the canyon down as going down a canyon.
    no paddle up your creek is a real creek.
    Begin would be the place to start.
    Cease would be the place to celebrate.”

    While I don’t go on this concept ‘ show the poem to a child” as fenn has correct it, not accurate to what the searcher implied…
    The advantage a kid could have are; Youth, physical ability and energy. I still would like to know what it is we need to “Plan” while we analyze, think, and be certain beforehand. Is there something we need to do, other than hike?

    The other thing is the difference between ~ naive as a lack of experience,[kid] and ignorance as lack of knowledge [ Adult ]. The Adult will use their personal experiences to attempt to find an answer, A kid will ask ‘why’ something is.
    The kid may have the advantage because they are simply look/read exactly what they see and use only that while asking Why. The adult forces [ unknowingly a majority of the time ] personal experiences into the mix and clouds what it is they actually see/read.

    The Sherlock Holmes affect… it elementary.

    My example is; NRBTFTW. a lot of folks see this as distance needing traveling. This might be because we want it to be, so we can understand it as a point to measure.
    A child may ask, “if” it’s not far, “why” can’t I walk it? Which opens the door of thought to be possibly, a quick drop in elevation, not far in time, no need to walk but to observe only, or even to mean don’t walk… turn around. etc.
    For me the kids lack of experience give them pause to think alternatives, yet simple, while Adults think of what we know from experiences and force them into the equation.
    I think Fenn’s comment followed Dal’s posting of throwing tarts. Which beckon the possibility of the “WhatIF” and that is another way of asking, Why?

    “The person that finds it, is going to be a person who thinks and plans and has an analytical mind and uses logic, not someone who has a hunch.”

    Without asking Why or WhatIF, all we have is guessing or throwing darts.


    • There ya go again Seeker,
      You keep crawling outside the box.
      You & others should adopt the concept.
      I am sure you have seen this video before:
      Juvenile: of, for, or relating to young people. – a young person.
      I seldom asked why, I was the kid who explored to find the answers myself so you can’t label all in this way.
      The box may be for young minds only I guess.

      Yes, I agree a plan is obviously needed.
      We know he planned for many things but when he would fly his plane north of Santa Fe above the Rockies towards WY & MT, he was winging it & that makes me think he is adaptable in more ways than most & tells me the child inside is always thriving.

      We have to plan for everything, don’t we?
      I’m on the Treasure Coast & your in TN or back in upstate evil empire country?
      Either way, we will have to plan to get where we think it is…..
      Planning is part of life & death.

      The only thing I see about NFBTFTW is that it is.
      I don’t see a specific distance embedded in the poem for this line.

      Yes, we are all throwing darts and all have missed the bulls eye but some have been within 200′.

      Keep throwing your darts as we all do & do expect someone will hit the bullseye someday.
      If I missed something outside the box, this is my opinion.

      • Jake, you did exactly what my post suggested.

        You said…”We have to plan for everything, don’t we?”

        { yep, there’s the Adult way of thinking and not what might have been suggested}

        You said…”I’m on the Treasure Coast & your in TN or back in upstate evil empire country?
        Either way, we will have to plan to get where we think it is….. Planning is part of life & death.”

        The simpleness of planning an excursion to get to our search area, just because we need to plan out out life’s movements?
        Do you really think FF suggestion to “think and plan” is just packing a pair of extra sock if we walk in a mud puddle?
        Shouldn’t we ask what it is we need to plan for, possibly involving the solution? Seeing fenn gave us that to think about when talking about the person who would solve it.

        And I’m not really meaning to be offensive here, but It kills me when someone use the example that they are searching physically to those who might not have yet, as a positive to, not really trying to solve the poem. It’s too laughable to even suggest it.

        If all we’re supposed to be doing is Planning for life and death… forget the chest and buy life insurance… the odds of a pay off is more in your favor.

        • Seeker,
          I just had a thought on “planning” that was sparked by the recent Q&A….kind of an analogy.

          The reference to “blueprint” made me think of this. A blueprint is a pictorial set of instructions created by an architect (F) and intended to be used by a contractor (a searcher) to put something together. It’s not step by step…..it’s up to the contractor (searcher) to figure out the best way to put everything together. There may be more than one way but is probably only one best way and that will require planning. Do you start with the roof….no, you start at the beginning. If you start in the middle the structure will collapse. If you bring in the electrician too soon you’re wasting time and expense. If you’ve never read a bluleprint (treasure riddle) or built a structure (searched for a treasure) it will be challenging. And like the oddball bicycle, it will require trail and error, persistence, adaptability, and planning.

        • Seeker and Colo……

          I think you both are starting to think in the right direction………….. Plan, Plan and Plan again. I think you are going to do that nine times….( but you won’t know that till your finished.

          I told everyone now, it’s in the stamps – if you don’t believe that – it’s OK – try it your way. Count clues and stumble around. As for me, I would rather know I have something solid for my structure.

          There are sooooooooooo many things in those little suckers………

          There are dots, placement of things, dates, names, and more……oh yes, then there is the 039. If you don’t find out what that means in the end – ooops – you have goofed.

          IMO (all of this) Forrest invented mind games.

          If you find something – you must use what you find and then use what you found in a different way to continue on. Dang,, this is hard to explain
          So maybe I won’t explain it until I go to my spot – one more time.

          I really have no worries of anyone doing this fast, or even within the next few years.

          I too dauddled around with what I thought were clues in the poem – it I couldn’t do it any more. I knew there was a different way.

          I nothing changes, like your perspective on solve – then the outcome will not change either.

          On more hint from me – start with the dates……all of the date.

          • Inthe,
            I’m sure we’ve been down this road before but…..

            Dals blog, 1/26/12, Forrest’s succinct response:Emily,
            “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search. F”

            Torq & Illiott podcast, dec 3, 2015
            “Q: Does someone need to read your book to find your treasure or do all clues exist within the poem.
            Fenn: “They don’t need to read the book but they need to read the poem. The book will help them but they can find the treasure if they can decipher the clues in the poem.”

            So Fenn tells us that we don’t need the book (yeah, yeah it *may be helpful*) and he tells us that clues where not deliberately placed and he tells us that we do need to decipher clues in the poem.

            I’d love you here your reasons again for ignoring all these very clear instructions from Forrest since it appears your solutions is based primarily on postmarks and ignoring the clues.

            You’ve been beating us over the head with how much you know and your absolute certainty of where the chest is for years. Why not just go get it already and quit telling us we don’t know what we’re doing.

          • Geeez Colo –

            Who pulled your chain…………

            I am simply posting my views there on a blog just like you do…and saying IMO.

            I am not telling anyone they are not smart or beating them over the head.

            “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search. F” I agree the chapters are not placed in any order to aid the searcher.

            Fenn: “They don’t need to read the book but they need to read the poem. The book will help them but they can find the treasure if they can decipher the clues in the poem.” I think I have deciphered the clues in the poem. He never said don’t use the book..

            Now, dear Colo – would you like to tell me why there are so many 4th of July stamps in the SB’s……..? Oh well……have a happy fourth……..

          • Dear Inthe,

            You said; “I told everyone now, it’s in the stamps – if you don’t believe that – it’s OK – try it your way. Count clues and stumble around. As for me, I would rather know I have something solid for my structure.”

            So you’re not saying we’re “not smart” but we’re the ones “stumbling around”? Sure sounds like you’re saying we don’t have a “clue”.

            And how do you “know you have something solid”. If you had something solid it would most likely be a 10×10 bronze chest.

            So you twisted Fenn’s quote to “agree” that the chapters aren’t arranged in order? Who ever said that? The order of the chapters has never been an issue that I’m aware of.

            You said: “would you like to tell me why there are so many 4th of July stamps in the SB’s……..? I don’t have a clue because I don’t use SB’s. I’m not an advocate of the kitchen sink style of solving the riddle. IMO this is the the type of out-of-the-box thinking Fenn just warned against.

            Would you like to tell us why you haven’t retrieved the chest since you’re so certain you “have something solid”?

          • Colokid, I’m sorry you are having such a bad day. First you confront Charlie, then you jump all over Inthe . I have no idea why, but you come across sounding very angry.

            Peace! Hope your evening gets better.

        • Seeker,
          Planning is a part of life at any age except of course when your mom was wiping your but.
          “Do you really think FF suggestion to “think and plan” is just packing a pair of extra sock if we walk in a mud puddle?”
          That is a very shallow statement & you know the river runs much deeper than that.
          You are much more intelligent than that & have brought a lot to the table, but your recent comments have me baffled.
          I don’t believe in insurance. Only one out of every 5 dollars goes back to the end user. Where did the other 4 bucks go?

          Are you still trying to figure out how the poem is to be read?
          There is plenty of room in the box if you are willing & able.
          Maybe you are still in denial.

    • Logic would dictate to try to remember your own childhood, and how you saw things. Remember, we all were taught to sound out our words to spell them correctly. So, are we to sound out words? Is this what he meant?

      Now, instead of the old discussion of what is a clue, it would be more like “what is an instruction”.

      Is that what he meant by, show it to a child? Sound out the words, or, letter by letter.

      Architect, or blueprints…instructions…Is this what he is saying to do? Follow instructions not only by words, but by letters. So hear me all and listen good could mean just that.

      • Charlie,
        You said: “Is that what he meant by, show it to a child?”

        This is perhaps the worst miss-quote of Forrest that continues to kick around the blog. It’s persistence is amazing.

        Do you have a reference for this? Please refer to Dal’s rules at the top of the page. …..#2.

        • Colo, do you see any quotation marks? You’ve been here ALMOST as long as I have. Are you really telling me to check out the rules? I was just raising a point, I could care less if it’s misread. Come on Colo…

          • Charlie,
            Sorry bud….I didn’t know you’d been here for the last 4 1/2 years like me.

            It sounds like you’re saying this is not a Fenn quote,….OK, then when you say; “Is that what he meant by, show it to a child?” ….please explain who is the “he” you’re referring?

          • hey Kid, yea, feb. 2011 seems so far away. I think Dal was only at around 40 searches at that time. Anyway, I don’t think showing the poem to a child is the smart thing to do, but some people seem to think that Forrest says that may be a smart thing to do. I’ve never heard him say that exact quote, but if searchers believe in it, maybe, ( and my point that I didn’t get across to well) those searchers should look at when they were a younger and focus on how they approached things so long ago. Example, sounding words out. Point being look for instructions in the letters.

            So, my “he” is Fenn, but for those who think showing it to a child may be a hint. Bottomline people, don’t show it to some child thinking they will see something that you yourself cannot figure out. Fenn didn’t write this when he was 10, it’s coming from an 80 year old man. Only memories.

            And hi Kat, good to see you still around, happy 4th.

            The searchers in this latest post have been doing this for awhile. If chase says they have something solid, I believe it. Just like I believe you and the others have. I’m a firm believer that there are multiple ways to arrive at the same spot. So, none of us are wrong, we are just not right yet.

          • We don’t have any youngsters in the family. I asked my wife to look at it from that standpoint since she taught Kindergarten for 22 years and I thought there may have been a connection to a kids story, movie, or poem. She could not make any connections.

          • Hi Charlie,
            I see what you’re saying, and I think many of us have actually showed the poem to a kid to try and get another spin. That’s fine…I’ve done that.

            My point is if you really are using that sentence and “he” does refer to Fenn than IMO it is being offered up as a quote and will be potentially miss-leading to some. That’s OK….just hate seeing misinformation propagated on here but see that was not your intent.

            You said: “So, none of us are wrong, we are just not right yet.”

            Sure I’ll get heat for this but….

            Unfortunately I have to take a more cynical view. Since there can only be one correct searcher/search team, I would say statistically the 99.999% of us (lumping myself in there) are flat wrong. Like trying to win the lottery, it’s still fun to try even with the long odds. That’s why when people start patting each other on the back and telling them they’ve got a great solve, I just have to laugh. Maybe it’s the politically correct thing to do these days but it serves no purpose other then to build up a false sense of confidence. IMO searchers are better served with the truth even if it’s a bit harsh.

            People are welcome to say they have something “solid” (in their opinion) but largely this is unsupportable. Some people put forward solutions that are possible, some might rise to the level of potentially probable, but some people come here with crazy stuff that is obviously contrary to everything Forrest has said. The later is fine too until they condescendingly start telling me that I’m “starting to think in the right direction” and “stumbling around” like Inthechase did. Not cool.

            My BOG searches have had a pretty educational way of showing what the reality of the situation is. I don’t come here and brag that I have it all figured out because I don’t. I think it’s more constructive if people discuss ideas and concepts and ask questions to stimulate others thought process. This blog should be more of an exchange of ideas…..not a “my solution is better than your solution and I’m the only one that knows what’s going on” slugfest.

            If a searcher wants to put their solution up here for others to critique that’s great. They should expect that it will get dissected, need to answer some key questions, and be held up to very rigorous peer review. That’s reality, IMO.

          • Colo – you said –

            “The later is fine too until they condescendingly start telling me that I’m “starting to think in
            the right direction” and “stumbling around” like
            Inthechase did. Not cool.”


            I was only repeating a word that FF used “stumbling”, and was not in any way
            referring to you individually. We are all entitled to our own opinions.

            Mean people don’t bother me a bit. Mean people who disguise themselves as nice people – bother me a whole lot.

            The only one here telling folks what not to do – is you. You are not cool – you
            are mean. Don’t mess with me, I know Karate, Kung Fu, Judo, Tae Kwon Do, Jujitsu, and 22 other dangerous words…

    • An observation I had this weekend. A tourist spot. A dwelling off the side. I noticed that when families walked by it was only the children, not all, that were curious. ALL of the parents just walked by, adults without children too. I propose the kids angle is curiosity.

  15. After forrest’s own heart:
    Deep in the heart of the greater Yellowstone ecosystem, “Ecoflight” Pilots assist conservation efforts. What a great idea. Let’s hope local efforts can change existing mineral right extraction in Paradise Valley. What a shame to mar more of that historic, ecologically important and beautiful land just north of YNP.


    • Thank you anna,
      The Yellowstone Gateway Business Coalition may be the key to resolving this issue. I would hope someone would get a petition going so the public can have a say here. Strength in numbers sometimes trumps the lobby.
      I am going to mom’s cookout today & will check change.org later tonight to see if there is one.

  16. Seeker, Approx. 10 months ago, you suggested that someone look thru TTOTC to find concepts that are repeated. IMO, I somewhat completed that task, and would like to share what I found. Mean people/bullies, middle, lessons learned, don’t trust governments, list steps of things to do sequentially, window, mirror, imagination is more important than knowledge, fishing, disguising, hiding, disappear, encourage/help children, water, rivers, flowers, contribute joy/happiness/beauty to other people, frogs, adventure, history, cars, gravestones/cemeteries. When ff feels strongly about the topic he is writing about: he asks the reader a question. When ff wants to be sure the reader understands him: he repeats his point in different words. ff uses personification often. ff uses alliteration, but not frequently.

    Regarding the concept of: “hidden, disguise or disappear”. In my opinion, this concept appears approx. 30 times BEFORE page 127 (before ff started writing about hiding the Treasure Chest or the Bells and Jars.) This tells me: we need to study the poem, to try to figure out: how the poem tells us: how/where the Chest (or blaze or the clues) is disguised, or how does the Chest “disappear”?

    When I’m hiking I might see a rock formation that looks like a frog (maybe a quarter a mile away). When I hike maybe 5 minutes further – the formation no longer looks like a frog. I joke and say, “oh no, the frog disappeared.” Of course, the formation just looks very different from a different angle. (“In the Catcher in the Rye”, didn’t children fall off a cliff because they didn’t see the cliff as they were running through the rye?)

    I hope this comment helps spark something in someone’s brain.

    • Golden,
      You remembered something I said 10 MONTHS ago??
      Will you please have a talk with my wife.

      I read this post in a completely different light to what I saw within the book when I read it… Write, rong or in different… You got me wondering.

      Really?! 10 months ago… I can even remember the first line of this response without peeking… lol. Cawffee’s on me if we ever cross paths.
      Dang!… Mr. fenn is this what you meant by influencing a future generation? Sure give one a good feeling.

      • Seeker, Recently, you have asked about the significance of the word “plan”. Give me 10 months, and I might have an answer for you. hee hee

    • GR,
      You said-
      Regarding the concept of: “hidden, disguise or disappear”. In my opinion, this concept appears approx. 30 times BEFORE page 127 (before ff started writing about hiding the Treasure Chest or the Bells and Jars.) This tells me: we need to study the poem, to try to figure out: how the poem tells us: how/where the Chest (or blaze or the clues) is disguised, or how does the Chest “disappear”?

      I’ve spent a considerable amount of time reading the poem and asking myself, where in the poem does Fenn speak of how he hid the chest or how to uncover it?
      I keep going back to one of the stanzas that seem to be passed over and that is stanza 5. If I’m ever within that 200 ft I want to be prepared enough to know how to uncover or find how it may be disguised. Maybe I’ll take another read through the book and look for the places you described above.

      And for awhile I’ve believed mirrors are important I wonder why?

      • Count,
        Mirrors as a items to use or as meaning as reflect opposite? just curious.

        • Seeker,
          Mirror as reflecting opposites, from my analysis of the poem there appears to be some reflecting opposite within the structure. But you already stated that you don’t look at the poem as 2 halfs and it does take breaking down the poem that way. Your open minded so if you want me to explain I’m always up for it.

          Thanks for the page count.

          • Within the poem there appears to be a structure, a structure where the first half mirrors the second half. While reading TTOTC and searching for subtle clues I noticed something within the writing(mostly in Important Literature). Often Fenn uses a comma before a conjunction, at first I only noticed this with the word and. I was under the impression that this is only to be used while constructing a list but that’s not the case, it is often called a serial comma. Within this analysis it’s best to try and not look at the poem as 9 clues but this is rather a way to understand each sentence better with using the punctuation. There are 4 serial commas in the poem and they appear to mirror each other. 2 that use the word but and 2 that use the word and. In stanza 1 Fenn uses a serial comma with and then in stanza 2 he uses a serial comma with but. In the second half of the poem he uses but in stanza 4 then and in stanza 5 giving a mirror image of the uses of the serial comma. The structure is made even more complete by stanza 3 and 6 being divided into 2 parts. When one goes even farther the can see that Fenn also made stanza 2 and 4 having two sentences to also create a mirror image of structure within the two halfs of the poem. This way of looking at it allows one to fold the poem in half and essentially get the same structure out of each half of the poem and mirror each other.I can go into greater detail about this, with how much study I’ve done on the subject, but this post is becoming long enough.

            When one studies what a serial comma is they understand that it is inserted within a sentence to take away ambiguous meaning of the sentence or to better understand the sentence. Ambiguous, I found that word mentioned numours times by searchers to explain how the poem is created yet there is something within the poem that helps take this away or better understand it. If you would like me to go into greater detail of what a serial comma is I can but I believe a searcher sould do this study on there own. Most never notice serial commas within the poem rather the less there structural pattern leaving one to contemplate there intentional usage.

          • Sorry correction to a sentence-When one goes even farther the can see that Fenn also made stanza 2 and 5 having two sentences to also create a mirror image of structure within the two halfs of the poem- I wish there was an edit button.

      • Here’s the pages where I found “hidden, disguise or disappear” (before page 127). Twice on p. 6, p. 7, p. 9, (I ignore “cover up” on p. 11), p. 12, p. 17, p. 23, p. 27, p. 32 (grinding marbles hiding them from Miss Ford), p. 33, p. 38, p. 42, twice on p. 47, p. 48, p. 50, twice on p. 53, p. 65, p. 69, p. 70, p. 87, p. 89, p. 94, p. 95, p. 97, p. 111, p. 119 (“pretending to read” is kind of a disguise or trying to hide). You can probably find some I missed. Anyway, that’s a lot of hiding, disguising, and disappearing!

        I hope that helps.

        • I feel Mother Nature is very good at hiding things. Think about how Mother Nature hides baby rabbits. I believe, IMO, ff knows Nature so well, that ff knows how to use Nature to hide his chest. I’m not saying the chest is buried, I’m not saying the chest is out-of-site . . . I have no idea . . . I’m just saying: I try to keep my mind open to everything and anything Nature and ff might do. I hope that makes sense.

          • There is a saying that – if you want to hide something – put it right in their face – they will never see it.

            Repeats =

            Stamps = inside front cover, inside backcover and inside the book. (3 places). There are also repeats of the actual stamps too.

          • Is this true eaglesabound?
            I have thought some of the post stamps were valid but obviously some of the dates or year stamps on them seem to be double stamped or jumbled intentionally.
            I do like the one on pg 58. SUNDAY 20SEP 1946 SOMEWHERE IN MONTANA.

          • Well, when I checked it out way back when, the stamps you can read were wrong. In other words the dates don’t match the days. Now the ones that are jumbled are obviously of interest since they are not dates or not legeable even under a magnifying glass, which you need by the way. IMO of course

          • Inthechaseto, f infers that searchers do not focus on the poem (IMO). Are you focusing on the poem or are you searching for hints in the book that tell you what the clues in the poem are? Are you trying to satisfy a “what if” that you have asked yourself? I hope the stamps are speaking to you or at least helping you eliminate the places where Indulgence is not.

          • I am doing research on the dates & days & I agree with you now eaglesabound.
            I have not found a match yet.
            The one I mentioned is actually a Friday.

          • F is a fox. I wonder why he wants us to do this excercise? Perhaps the answer lies in the ones that are jumbled. They are very hard to read . You really need a magnifying glass. IMO of course, but then again my eyes aren’t what they use to be.

          • You got that right eaglesabound,
            He’s like a fox on steroids.
            Besides inside the front & back covers, Me in the middle stamp is jumbled, Gypsy Magic, Totem Cafe Caper(WEST YELLOWSTONE), My brother being Skippy, etc…
            You would think this was intentional by Forrest but the only pattern I see now is randomness.
            I was at my mom’s home yesterday & she had some new paintings on the walls & these 2 caught my eye.
            I told her we need to switch them around & she told me she liked them just the way they are?????
            She is a interior decorator & has been an architect for many years & I can’t figure for the life of me why she hung them this way?
            If you need some decor, or you just want to think backwards, you can reach her here:
            If you think you know better than her, fa getabout it!
            Gotta love your mom!

          • Slurbs,
            I know I am offensive at times & my odor makes the flowers wilt.
            I have seen you in NM at The Rio searching for Randy & know you are a good soul.

            If I was standing right next to the treasure & didn’t know it, would you you want to be near me then?
            So, why is it you wouldn’t want me near you besides the odor?

            BTW, I like you as well.

          • Jake, this if f related here. You appear to have not listened good. I never said that I wouldn’t want to be near you (smell or otherwise). I said that I wouldn’t want you near me (more so if you didn’t realize the Treasure was near). There may not be an obvious difference, but a difference does still remain. No ill remarks meant to be sent or taken. In the fiture, I may explain myself. Nothing but well wishes I send your way.

          • Thanks Slurbs,
            It’s nice to see we have some things in common.
            I am not sure what they are but they do coexist.
            “You appear to have not listened good.”
            Story of my life.

          • Hello Jake Faulker. Your mom seems to be quite an independent woman and very smart. I had considered becoming an Interior Decorator while in high school. Having the pictures hang that way in her own home expresses individuality and her way of conversation. If she applied it to a home that was being sold, she would be considered brilliant. Having something “off, ” so to speak, would make the potential buyer remember the home. 🙂

          • Slurbs –

            You asked this – Are you focusing on the poem or are you searching for hints in the book that tell you what the clues in the poem are? Are you trying to satisfy a “what if” that you have asked yourself? I hope the stamps are speaking to you or at least helping you eliminate the places where Indulgence is not.

            I first focused on the poem and then the book and then postmarks. I did what FF said read the poem over and over – then read the book.

            Am I trying to satisfy a “what if” – no – I don’t believe he did this as a guessing game. I believe in specifics and precisely, and the truth and nothing but the truth.

            The postmarks did not help me eliminate places – I would think that to be a totally futile effort.

            IMO – he gave you all you need to know where to start. It’s in black and white. Not that hard – and right in plain view.

          • Jake, in reference to your mom`s pictures…

            did Mr f write this to your mom…?

            Forrest responds-

            You are not the first to figure the postmarks into some kind of equation. What difference does it make which one came first, the book or the hiding? You are an individual thinker and the kind who might find the treasure. But remember, if you follow yourself around a circle sooner or later you’ll be behind yourself. Happy hunting. f

  17. Howdy all you seekers of Gold and maybe also seekers of truth. I think I posted somewhere awhile back that in my own selfish bias opinion…..the chest is hidden in a pile of sticks and branches. Somewhere in one of ff videos he is sifting his hands through a pile of pieces of pottery and talking about a missing manuscript
    from some Spaniard who was on the run. He talked about how he may have hidden it by putting pieces of wood, branches, and sticks around it. “IF YOU ARE BRAVE AND IN THE WOOD…..I GIVE YOU TITLE TO THE GOLD”.


    • I’m not sure I saw that video. Can you please point me in the right direction.

    • It’s possible Guy, he did use an “underwood” typewriter. He did mention centipedes, the Brown centipedes’ home is in rotted out logs. Could be a home of Brown. Or at least another meaning of it.

      There was a discussion awhile back about it, maybe that was your post. Don’t remember.

    • -guy michael-on –

      Happy forth to you too ! In the wood – to me, means a few things, a name, and tree branches, and a forest. Not a pile of sticks. yes, imo that is where the treasure is.

    • I’m new here (first comment) but I have had a similar thought, perhaps beaver dam?

    • Should I use bbc or embed to upload photos here? I want photos to show on the site without having to click a link.

  18. Wow fantastic. Thank you guys for posting what I consider valuable information. Something for me to chew on.
    Now go and stare at the chest some. Not the gold, but the chest.

  19. Happy 4th of July to all – Our Independence is precious, and has been
    paid for by the precious blood of so many brave souls – Let us NOT
    forget how this Independence was gained.

    Oh, by the way, I’ll take a Braut please!

    Good luck to ALL searchers and STAY SAFE


    • Thanks JD & wish all as well.
      Like I didn’t eat enough yesterday, I got some bratwurst on the menu today.
      Make that a Johnsinville with some Nathans on the side.
      Please pass me the horseradish.

    • Hello JD. Happy 4th of July to you and yours. I can’t pass a braut, but I may have a leftover steak with sides of homemade pasta and potato salads, and corn-on-the-cob. 😉

      • WoW PD that sure sounds good!!! I can taste it now!

        Good luck PD – when are you heading out?

        Good luck, whenever you go out – STAY SAFE


        • Hello JD. Thank you! 🙂

          July 16th is the day we head north and return on the 23rd. Thank you for your well wishes. I greatly appreciate it. 🙂

    • Happy 4th, all.
      I wish we didn’t have to fight for out independence, but that seems to be the nature of things.
      God bless all who believe in liberty, justice, and the pursuit of happiness.

      And judging by what’s on the plates, there’s a lot of that pursuit.

    • Welcome to the Blog – have not seen you before.

      Good luck with your search and STAY SAFE


      • @JD he has been around a long time just changed his name! I recognize his pic, looks like the Grand Canyon….IMO and Happy 4th to all!

        • I have been around for quite some time, but don’t recall changing my name. The photo isn’t from Grand Canyon, although I’ve been there quite a few times. It’s a photo of me from Narrows Bottom-Up hike in North Fork of Virgin River in Zion National Park, Utah. My wife and I lived in Utah for a few years, and for the past 15+ years Utah has been our retreat, playground and lately some extended family living north of Salt Lake City. Cheers…

      • Not new – just post when I think I have something to contribute or say. Thanks just the same for the welcome.

  20. Inthechase,

    ” Don’t mess with me, I know Karate, Kung Fu, Judo, Tae Kwon Do, Jujitsu, and 22 other dangerous words…”

    Clearly you are very frightening….remind me not to meet up with you in a dark ally, LOL.

    Alright let’s play nice. You’ve been going on about stamps so I think it’s fair game to ask you questions about this theory.

    You said: “There are sooooooooooo many things in those little suckers………

    There are dots, placement of things, dates, names, and more……oh yes, then there is the 039. If you don’t find out what that means in the end – ooops – you have goofed.”

    What you are suggesting here is Forrest “deliberately” placing altered stamps, dots in the stamps, names, dates, and numbers, I guess, that convey some secret meaning.

    We also have this: Blog post dals/nine-clues/7-14-15
    At the event at Moby Dickens Book Shop in Taos, he said, “There are nine clues in the poem, but if you read the book (TTOTC), there are a couple…there are a couple of good hints and there are a couple of aberrations that live out on the edge.”

    How do you rationalize your statements when he clearly said: “The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. “?

    To me, it sounds like what you are suggesting exceeds way more than “a couple”, none-subtle and very deliberate hints being placed in the book.

    Second question: Could you have arrived at your solution/conclusions using just the poem? Remember…Fenn: “They don’t need to read the book but they need to read the poem. ”

    Third question: Didn’t you say 4th of July is important? (Happy 4th by the way) How do you get 4th of July out of the poem?

      • Hello JD. It’s possible using the word “riches” from the poem, one might consider “wealth” and going down the thread with “independence.” When thinking of “independence” we tend to think of freedom and the Fourth of July.

    • Colo –

      I have already answered your first question –


      Second question: Could you have arrived at your solution/conclusions using just the poem? Remember…Fenn: “They don’t need to read the book but they need to read the poem. ”

      I did have a solve before I started working the stamps. So, yes I could have done it with just the poem. After the stamps – things became clear as to why he did this entire treasure hunt.


      Third question: Didn’t you say 4th of July is important? (Happy 4th by the way) How do you get 4th of July out of the poem?

      I did have the 4th of July clue – before I started working the stamps. All one has to do is research the area. You do believe in research don’t you?

      Happy 4th to you too – i think – gurrrrrr. If you don’t think anything I am saying is right – why don’t you just skip my posts?

      Reply ↓

      • Inthechase,

        “If you don’t think anything I am saying is right – why don’t you just skip my posts?”

        Actually I’m hoping that there is something in your theory and holding out the possibility that I just don’t understand. I’m wanting to understand your train of thought.

        Secondly, by asking you specific questions about your theory and asking you to verbalize your reasons, I’m hoping it helps you think about your theory from other angles you may have missed or not considered.

        I don’t think you answered any of the questions but they may have been poorly worded so I’ll try one last time then give up…promise.

        On the first question you actually responded with an answer to something I didn’t ask. You said something about order of the chapters. Fenn never specified that deliberately had anything to do with order of the chapters. He said:“The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. “? So the “hints” are “not deliberately placed”.

        The thinking here is: if I don’t “have” to read the book, and all the information is in the poem, then anything (hints) in the book must relate back to the poem somehow.

        1) Adding a stamp with information would be a deliberate act. He’s the only one with the info. How do you rationalize that he deliberately placed stamp hints ?

        2)How does the poem relate to or reference stamps or the information in the stamps? Or how do you get “names, dates, and numbers” out of the poem?

        3) How specifically is 4th of July referenced in the poem?

        • 1) Adding a stamp with information would be a deliberate act. He’s the only one with the info. How do you rationalize that he deliberately placed stamp hints ?

          I think he worked with his editor – she suggest the stamps and he then – included his info (which he already had) and embellished them. I do not think the stamps themselves are deliberately placed. You must find where they specifically go in relation to the chapters.
          2)How does the poem relate to or reference stamps or the information in the stamps? Or how do you get “names, dates, and numbers” out of the poem?

          You get names, dates, and numbers from the stamps. You can get them from the poem too – if you research all the clues and apply what you learned. I do believe there are many clues in the poem – and the book – good grief – how do you get YOUR clues. I don’t see any great solve coming from your lips.
          3) How specifically is 4th of July referenced in the poem?

          I see you are trying to be a poem purist – I was too at one time. That thinking created my first solve – but IMO it will not get one to the pin point solve or understanding of “why” he did this or “how” he did this. Again, the 4th is important to the area. It can be found on the internet. The 4th is specifically referenced by “riches new and old”.

          • inthe,
            “I don’t see any great solve coming from your lips.”

            Still keeping it combative I see. Maybe that’s why people react to you the way they do?

            The bottom line here is; if your solution is as solid as you suspect then go get the chest. What’s stopping you? Prove your point.

            I wouldn’t call myself a poem purest. That seems to be a negative label that some like to use to create divisions.

            I’m a Fenn purest. I believe what he says, I don’t think it’s necessary to read a lot of subtext into everything he says, I don’t think everything he says needs to be twisted to mean something else, and I think what he says is pretty straightforward if you really listen.

            So by listening carefully to Fenn it is my opinion, at this time, that a complete solution to the poem can not be determined sitting at home. IMO BOG are mandatory and only the first two clues can be solved at home.

            I could tell you the starting point I’m playing with based on the first clue in the poem but then you’d be a competitor. I’m happy with you thinking along the lines you’re on. Good luck with it.

          • Colo –

            I am happy that you have a spot – that is not anywhere near mine. Best news I’ve received all day.

            I hope you explorer it until the cows come home and then maybe you will know where you are. LOL

            Best of luck to you too !

        • JD,
          What exactly is it you consider “Testy” about this discussion?
          I see one poster asking another to explain what he claims to be informative information on a possible way to interpret hints he/she believes are in the book.

          Inthechase has stated openly what she refers to, and Colokid has asked questions about how this might come about using the FF comments that seem to contradict inthechase claims/thought process.

          Colokid said; “Actually I’m hoping that there is something in your theory and holding out the possibility that I just don’t understand. I’m wanting to understand your train of thought.”

          Like I said in a post between you and myself about asking question…” I know exactly what the problem is” You simply do like anyone who asked questions that might, indicated a theory/interpretation of … that could bring doubt to what we may think is the one and only brilliant perfect solution that no one in the words knows about. AS if it’s a personal attack. That is big ego 101.

          I think anyone who read this discussion would see two people “arguing” [ definition; presenting information / debating possibilities ]

          So what is it exactly that you see, you feel the need to make the comment “My – MY – aren’t we “testy” today?”
          Unless I’m wrong, the blog was meant for folks to have discussion and different of opinions… not just bragging how wonderful there personal theories are. I see this conversation helpful not only to those two searchers, but give thoughts for other to consider.

          • The only line I found test was this one:”Happy 4th to you too – i think – gurrrrrr. If you don’t think anything I am saying is right – why don’t you just skip my posts?”

            I will not comment on your other jabs.


          • Seeker you said,”Like I said in a post between you and myself about asking question…” I know exactly what the problem is” You simply do like anyone who asked questions that might, indicated a theory/interpretation of … that could bring doubt to what we may think is the one and only brilliant perfect solution that no one in the words knows about. AS if it’s a personal attack. That is big ego 101.”

            I will follow the rules, and make no personal attacks. I will be polite. I
            will also say that I have a completely different point of view than you have.

            I have NEVER said that I thought that my solution was the “only brilliant perfect solution that no one in the words knows about”… should have been WORLD not words…but be that as it may.

            Yes, I am proud and confident in my solve. Yes, I do hope that soon I will prove it to be THE correct solution, but I have also said that I will be more than willing to eat my fair share of crow and humble pie IF I am wrong.

            “Big ego 101” Didn’t you write that course? You certainly try to teach it enough.

            Have a GREAT day Seeker.


    • Here’s how I get the 4th of July from the poem:
      I RED the poem,
      from a WHITE piece of paper,
      over & over again, until I was BLUE in the face.

      Red, white & blue makes me think of the 4th of July.

      Just kidding. I’m just being silly.

  21. From what I read, many people discount the first stanza. I am going to go out on a limb, and post exactly what I think that the first stanza means.

    I do not think that I am revealing anything that has not been posted by myself and others before, but, maybe not a full interpretation of the full stanza.

    So: Clue #1
    As I have gone alone in there
    And with my treasures bold,
    The first line is a warning, and a clue:
    As = Since – or Owing to the fact that: Therefore: “Since I have gone alone in there” (sic)…you too should be alone when you go INto where the treasure is hidden…or at least not be observed.

    IN THERE is very important because it prepares the searcher for things to come. Once the searcher has found a location where he/she thinks the treasure is located, the searcher will know that he/she must look IN that area, not just AT that area. The searcher must be IN a specific area or place.

    “And with my treasures bold” = The Treasure Chest and its contents.
    I can keep my secret where,
    And hint of riches new and old.
    FF could keep the Treasure Chest’s location a secret, but he could also hint of the riches, both new and old, that were to be found in the Treasure Chest.

    To me, the most important parts are “in there” and alone. (Not be observed)
    I place no special significance to new and old other than the contents of the chest.

    Probably nothing earth shaking, but I would appreciate any feedback.

    Good Luck to ALL searchers and STAY SAFE


    • OK JD –

      You asked for it …………you said………To me, the most important parts are “in there” and alone. (Not be observed)
      I place no special significance to new and old other than the contents of the chest.

      I do believe the complete poem to be perfectly straight forward – as in literal. I think you have to believe just what he is saying. I have gone alone in there – means just that. There were no other people around – period. Now, how is that possible? Think – how would you go anywhere alone in the rocky mountains. I believe there is a very specific answer to that. He had a key. Believe it or not – – I can see how no one would believe this and that’s OK. Do we have to have a key? NO………IMO

      I just explained “old and new” above and believe it is an important event that took place near where the TC is located. There is IMO an explanation for almost every word in the poem.

    • Happy Fourth of July, JD.Interesting take on the first stanza.Thank you for sharing.

  22. CO (11.5): 1/2 of Kevin, Cholly, Corin, E.C. Waters, JDiggins, Locolobo, Inthechaseto, Eaglesabound, Cas, SL, Geydelkon, Lou Lee BelleDon’t forget beautiful, smiling, Amy Sweitzer! Speaking of Amy, lurker amy, where are you??? You me and spallies make a great trio, fenns angels? Lol! And I don’t see a very tough competitor…wise one…what state are you in now?I’m in the state of relief. I have less competition than the rest of you! But…the competitors I face are definately    some I consider in the top of the league. Thank goodness the others are in the wrong state or I’d have to up my game…But wait…

  23. “So I wrote a poem containing nine clues that if followed precisely will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure:”

    A couple tidbits for those who dare…

    Rainbows, circles, blueprint, red letters, the blaze could be white, home of Brown, color of a daffodil, etc…

    CYMK are the colors for print medium. The “C” is cyan (a blue), blue print.

    RGB are digital graphics, and as such, all have codes,as do all colors. There is a color wheel (actually several), a compass rose…see where I’m going?

    A rainbow is a circle. Which rainbow, which wheel, which rose holds the end of forrest’s rainbow? The one that does, also holds the…
    Wait for it….the beginning of his rainbow.

    If we have “treasures bold” does this mean three blues, in bold, ? Cyan, Azure, and maybe Indigo? (Get it, indy go) is turquoise a blue?
    Which blue is the beginning, which is the end?

    that’s it for now…

    Oh yeah, IMO…

    I’ll be back later to see if I have ruffled any feathers. 🙂

    Merry Christmas! Oh wait, sorry, Happy 4th! 🙂

  24. Inthechaseto, I will stand beside you on the stamps/marks. Actually, I am quite beside myself. I’m wondering if anyone else who sent forrest an SASE and received an arrowhead; were any of you a couple who sent two envelopes and received two, one for each?
    I did, and the post marks on the envelopes were different…

  25. Merry Christmas JDiggins….I hope there are giant blueprints under your tree. Somehow I assume there is also a tangerine in the toe of your stocking today. Let freedom ring!!

    P.S. nice posts.

    • ** some people like to.pass out blueprint…but I prefer to pass out carbon copies…almost the same…only slightly different….and wrong. That way when everybody runs face first into one another I can sit back with my giant tub of corn seed and say “oh, I’m sorry….I thought those cheesy poofs would save you” I’m starting to think you feel the same. Lol.

      And yes….some.of the return postmarks back this way are from denver also.

      • Hi jonesy1, I’m feeling jonesy myself!
        Kinda confused about the cheese poofs, but I DO LOVE the way your brilliant mind ticks! 🙂

        • I just wanted to say cheesy poof cause it makes me smile and added a mysterious element to the post. Busted! Lol.

          • I was trained by the Green Berets and I’m starting to get scared of posting.


          • Kanafire,

            I’m in agreement with you… there seems to have been a mood change, for lack of a better word, for some time now.

            While we all enjoy posting our thoughts / Ideas / theories… There are some who seem to take great offense to having their post questioned on its viability. Even if they offer other posters to give thoughts in return about what they post.

            Maybe it’s because they might feel all their time, research, effort shouldn’t be challenged, but only excepted. I for one look forwards to another, who has taken interest in solving this poem, to give critical and constructive feed back… even if it isn’t what I want to hear. Many have with me – my postings – and have given pause for thought.

            I believe I understand you when you said; Scared, as to mean, Should I even bother to post, because it might start trouble… if I’m correct in assuming that.

            Disagreements happen daily [on the blog], most are for legitimate discussion and debates of thoughts… Yet some are taking it way to personal that if, you don’t agree and debate with an informational thought, and act as if your attack them personally… It’s sad really.

            But, Adult doesn’t always mean mature.

  26. Haha kana- JDiggins and I are of an obscure self trained 17 year hybrid- cicada/mantis shrimp- Brood #5 precisely. Neon orange wings and UV halos. Don’t worry, we only use our powers for good. Don’t tell the government. Can’t have anyone wisening to our WAY+MEANS before unearthing Proof of Chest. It’s all still under our collar for now. Mess dress ONLY.

    Jamie’s found the wine again. Green Berets are safe.
    Happy 4th!

    • Seeker,
      You are correct my friend.
      Thanks! I feel safer now.
      I believe to many are sure that they have the solution,before they go out.
      Time will tell.
      Happy hunting!

  27. Sometimes, late at night, by my juniper fire, I want to paint a white blaze that says “free candy” on my 1966 de Tomaso Mangusta and then just drive by Forrest’s house sloooowly….but then I think it might be better with no blaze at all and just me REAL favorite car. The 1894 Balzer. Pun intended. “An American Pioneer that Lacked Everything But Ingenuity”.

    I don’t chase stalkers…..stalkers chase me. Lol.

  28. I just thought of something. Translating links to miles might just be the wrong translation and a big mistake.

  29. I am going to go back and reevaluate the translating of links to miles.
    Also north of Santa Fe might mean altitude as well

  30. I’m curious, so I’m hoping you’ll take part in this poll. How many here have told Forrest that you are trying to think “outside the box”? How many feel their ideas might be a little out there? No particulars, of course, just a show of hands.

    • I, for sure, am always real down to earth and grounded. Never been one to understand the “out there” logic I read on here sometimes but u try and let it slide. Live and let live, you know?

    • Hello Jeremy P. My thoughts are a little out there somewhere, once I step out my front door. 🙂

      I think the thought of whether or not one thinks it’s “outside the box” is yet to be determined. How does one truly know that it is?

      • Same problem as most philosophers have..always trying to describe concepts not yetunderstood with words that already are. Either your ideas are in the box, or your sentences are. Not much room for error….besides ” jumping high and to the right” as one well known philosopher put it.

        • I think he wants us to remember that a ” butterfly is a flutterby”. And that’s all. IMO

          • In what reference do you mean?
            I have wonder if the poem is straightforward….yet our destination is not.

            Before subterfuge is used to dispute this thought… thing clues travelling to you and not the other way.

        • Hello Jeremy P. Yes, it is fun to read others thoughts. No, that isn’t correct either, because then one would be a mind reader. 😉

    • Jeremy:
      the box I am in is really big,
      so I stay,
      and people who want to leave
      may find that they should have stayed
      for that is where the treasure will be found
      in my opinion only


      • And maybe someone has never left the box and is close. That is why he felt he needed to level the field.

        • Randy:
          yes I agree with you.
          many people on this blog are in the same box as I
          the box to me is Wyoming
          and the place I will be searching is in the Shoshone National forest which is a smaller box.
          people have looked where I am going
          but they went to far.
          this is only my opinion, as everyone has the right to voice.
          I say have fun, be careful and take photographs
          and share if you like.


          • Zenden, thanks for your reply. Forrest said your destination is small, it’s location is huge. Huge could mean significance, not area.

          • If you are in a grove of pines, IN Shoshone National Forest, that is
            an even smaller area in a BIG one.

            Be “Brave and in the wood”


          • Zenden: you’re on to something! 🙂 Fenn is trying to tell people that it’s not in New Mexico or Montana: only Colorado and Wyoming are “box-shaped”. /sarcasm

        • And why would he spell Ms. With a Z instead of an S….it that a pun before the SED videos?? I don’t get it.

    • I, for one, have never strayed outside the box. However, I believe there are two distinct parts to the poem; hence the need for a paradigm shift. After reaching the blaze, your effort = (starting) cold. I believe this to be in line with FF’s latest correspondence. Of course, my post probably sounds way outside the kitten box to most.

      • Dang rotary engine powered minds…..open one up and next thing you know you’re building an entire factory. 100 years to late. Or 1000to early? I can’t keep track anymore. Time to turn pocket watches into patios …..

    • Jeremy, no for me on thinking outside the box. I just get advice and it does not make things better – more the bike example than whether or not it is in or out of the box. Advice sometimes can be rather adventurous and ultimately ineffective 🙂 Trial and error appears to work.

    • Jeremy,
      Your question has me stumped. I don’t know what is inside the box to the out side. To be honest i don’t think anyone really knows. For me the statement fenn made implies… go back to the poem, again.

      Maybe my answer would be… I’m looking from the outside in.

    • Obviously I’m stuck inside the box now Jeremy.
      I like to keep things simple & idiot proof.
      I am wired both ways but make a rational decision based on information & the information points to it being straightforward.
      If you cannot adjust based on information & experience, then you may not have a shot.

      • lol Jake, “simple and idiot proof”…
        Reminds me of, the glass is 1/2 empty or 1/2 full scenario.
        Its all about perception… Another may not even look at it being close or worry about it either way, and conclude that they simply have water. But will need more eventually.
        So, in those examples of thought… which is straightforwards? Which is the ‘rational decision’ to understanding what is in front of you?

        Lets take another example that, at one time, everyone knew the Earth was flat. But along came others who question it. They asked what other possibilities are there other than Flat? The illusion that the world was flat was from everyone perspective of what they see in front of them and what they been told or how to think… never to look up at object shaped like balls and try and surmise the reasons.

        This is my point about straightforward… from what perspective are we seeing the poem? or our we simply following what we think is what we been told.
        Analyze; study in detail
        Think; direct one mind towards something or someone.
        Plan; decide on and arrange in advance
        Logic; access according to principles of validity.

        We have been told to use these has guides in our thought process. Personally I don’t see simple and idiot proof, but lean to the side of what perspective [ outlook, viewpoint, frame of reference, interpretation ] fenn is attempting to indicate… How he sees it, what straightforwards means to him.

        This is an opinion post only.

        • Yes Seeker, I agree with most you said.
          I do like to keep things simple & idiot proof.
          I am not stating that the poem is as such & we all know it is difficult to solve but would like to think the way it is to be read is fairly simple.
          You know my take.
          1st stanza is introduction, 2nd is where you begin with the 1st clue & cease is where your done.

          “Dear Mz. Mary,
          The solve is difficult for many searchers because their minds think the clues are tougher to decrypt than they really are. ”

          I guess it depends which box you think your in.

          • Jake,
            Dear Mz Mary… Searcher over complicate the solve by trying to know/research other things… lingo, coding, biblical, an so on. That is part of what I take from this Q&A.

            But lets plat with your view and my view for a second.

            You are standing at a point and you might see a place very near, then another place a little farther and another place just beyond that, and still a few more place even farther off in the distance… that you must travel to to get where you desire to be at.

            I stand In the same exact spot you did, and I see far off in the distance a place, and in front of that place is another and another until the last place is where I’m at.

            Which one of these descriptions is straightforwards?

          • Well Seeker,
            I think your understanding is right on. Over complicate.
            I guess it’s all about perspective though, is it not?
            My straightforward is different from yours & others, is what I think your trying to say.
            When did Forrest say to show the poem to a kid?
            I couldn’t find it.
            The only reference to a kid/child that I have seen & heard was the Moby video where a kid may have an advantage because more agile & better eyesight.

            Anyways, it doesn’t matter in my mind. My mind is made up already after Fridays post confirms what too many searchers have been doing is just not the right approach on how to read the poem & figure the clues.

            Begin where it says to begin & cease when…….
            Just my simple straightforward opinion.

          • Jake,

            First off, you wouldn’t find that as a quote directly from fenn… he corrected that as the searcher who started it all, misunderstood him. Yet folks still use it as a positive quote of fenn’s… this has been going on for some time now.
            Sometimes you can’t fix stupid.

            But you avoided my question, by answering only what you feel is correct. I’m not debating what you think is correct or not. what I’m challenging, is in what perspective of reading the poem correct?

            But I’ll save some time here… IMO both scenarios can be straightforwards and completely opposite.

            For many months now I have reviewed as much as I can on the after the facts. I’ve been looking at things with a different thought, what did all those searchers who told where they were, described what they saw, indicated what they thought..to fenn, and why he said they didn’t know they had the first clue[s]. Didn’t understand the significance of where they were, Why little indy or anyone else can’t “get closer” than the first two clues. Why did they all go by, went pass, walked by all the other information, and didn’t know it.

            Why do we ignore the first clue, don’t dwell on it enough. Why is looking for later clues a folly, Won’t know the have the first clue correct till they find the chest, especially when we are told to nail down the first clue. Why warn us the path will not be direct to those how have no certainty beforehand.

            My suggestion here is not to make assumptions about trying to answer these… like; the Little Indy doesn’t have a passport, or all those searchers made wrong turns, or it was simply the wrong map, or even botg is the only way… there is a commonality that all those [ and others ] comments have.

            The question we “might” need to ask ourselves at this juncture is… what have we’ve done wrong? Instead of thinking how brilliantly correct we are.

            food for thought.

    • Never told him I was thinking outside or inside the box.
      Then again, we know he reads the blogs & stating as such here or there, you are telling everyone that reads them.

      • Jake;

        What is “Thinking inside of the box? Or what is thinking outside of the box? To me the most conventional definition would be that thinking inside of the box would imply “Conventional” thinking. No
        codes, no ciphers, no foreign languages, etc. Get
        back to basics.

        Forrest has said, “Here is what I would do. Read my book in a normal manner. Then read the poem over and over and over, slowly – thinking. Then read my book again, this time looking for subtle hints that will help solve the clues.” f. THIS is “In the box thinking” at least to me.

        Good luck to ALL searchers, and STAY SAFE


        • I agree JD,
          Conventional or straightforward – no games here.
          It’s easier said than done as the backwards bike video illustrates.
          Get back to the basics, the core, the foundation & when & if you can do this, you may have shot.

          • Hello Jake Faulker. Was the bike video the one Mr. Fenn suggested? Or, was it assumed? There are many videos.

          • pdenver,
            What I did first was go to YouTube.com.
            I then use the search box & typed in “Smarter every Day”
            The first 2 videos are adds.
            The 3rd is the backwards bike video & I would have to assume that is what Forrest was referring to. Unfortunately he did not supply a direct link so who really knows. This was done on FireFox.
            When doing the same thing with IE, only one add comes before the BB video.
            So, my conclusion is based on a 2 step process with 2 different browsers & the same results.
            Now when you go to google & type in “youtube smarter every day” the top page is the BB in IE & FF.
            So why would you dig any deeper when the 1st (non add) video is the BB.

          • I think one of the problems here is that this quest is really hard to solve. There’s a LOT of territory to search in.
            And because of the many inevitable failures, people have started to turn to other methods.
            Forrest is trying to get people to stay the course, in my opinion.

          • I agree with you Buckeye Bob,
            If there’s one thing we can take from his Fridays statement is people are overthinking.
            There are still some in denial & there’s one thing I think I know.
            A number 6 will always be a number 6.
            You cannot change it to a number 3.

          • Jake, you had to pick the number 6, eh?
            The fact that it could be a 9, depending on how you look at it, might not be the best example. 😀

          • LOL Buckeye Bob & pdenver,
            Looks like I picked the wrong number as usual.
            Well, I think you got my point though.
            I guess you could learn to think in different way if you spend enough time on it.

          • Ha! pdenver!

            Nut then again, maybe it is an excellent example, eh?
            You can’t change a 6 to a 3, but you can look at it in different ways. This hit me after I posted. It seems to fit ff’s poem quite well.

            So here I am, back to wonderin’, and soon to be wanderin’.

          • Hello Buckeye Bob. It’s true. One can interpret the poem in different ways. That’s why I have three areas I search, in three different states. I’ll be rereading the books before I leave and the poem is already embedded in my brain. Pretty soon, I’ll need to learn how to recite it backwards. 🙂 When will you start your “wandering”?

          • Hello Jake Faulker. Yes, we knew what you were talking about. It was fun to giggle about it. There are many ways to understand the poem. Look at where everyone is searching. Some are in the same spots as others. Mr. Fenn’s poem definitely did the job by getting us off the couch. Now, as for the computer… 😉

          • pdenver, my daughter and I plan a trip in the first half of August. She has a job and only the one week of vacation left, and we’re coming from Ohio, 26 hours away but we’ll hotel it along the way.
            My arthritis won’t go well with camping, unfortunately. How I miss youth.

            You sound like you’ll be spending quite a bit of time on your trip, is that so?

            I’d offer to meet up, but I don’t think we’ll have enough time outside of our searching as we’ll be pushing time to get back home for another thing. Unless we get real lucky and find it right away, but the likelihood of that is very small.

            But I am curious about your time available, and envy you if you have a lot of it. 🙂

          • Hello Buckeye Bob. My family and I will be leaving on July 16 in the wee hours of the morning. We usually don’t do too much on the first day because of the hours driving on the road and feeling a little tired. We usually go searching for animals. We’ll be leaving for home on July 23 around mid-morning or so. Hard to leave such a beautiful place. What I do plan to do is have a wonderful time with my family, travel to areas I never have been to and make memories along the way. Arthritis? I can sympathize with you. Mine are in my knees and they yelled at me when I did my last exploration. I’m surprised you couldn’t hear them in Ohio. 😉

  31. Hello gang – I’m still alive. Since the first of the year, one-third of my pay has been overtime – ’nuff said. I’m back-logged to around May 1st on all your comments. I’ll be catching up to you all and saying things waaaaaaaaay out of context, I’m sure. Good luck to all!

  32. Hello fellow treasure hunters! My first time commenting on this blog. I have been studying the Poem (and lurking on this blog site)for about a year and a half. I will be heading out this coming weekend, July 10 th, to spend three days with my son in the Colorado Rockies looking for the treasure. While I believe I have a solid solve(like everyone else, LOL) the TRUE treasure for me is getting to spend a few days in the mountains with my 20 yr old son. He has battled cancer three times in the past two years and we believe he has beaten it this time. The excitement has been building these past six months as clues have fallen into place and we have planned this trip. My sons latest scans in May show he is cancer free and he is so excited about this trip. We live in Illinois, but I work in North Dakota. So I only see my family every couple of months. I WILL find the treasure next week! It may not include a chest full of gold, but something worth so much more! Thank you, Forrest!

    • @DreamersDoMore. Amazing for you and your son on every level. I know a little about what you two have been through from my own experience. The chase has given us memories I will always treasure. Have fun and best to you both.

      • Thanks, JD. Always enjoy reading your comments. Best of luck to you to.

    • Some things are worth more than all the gold in the world.

      I’ll be going, at some point soon-ish, with my daughter who’s had a different battle and conquered it through her own sheer will. Rising from the ashes like a Phoenix.
      The opportunity to share a “brave and in the wood” moment with her is priceless.

      Best wishes, DreamersDoMore.

      • Thanks, Buckeye Bob! Enjoy the time with your daughter. Best wishes to the both of you in your search!

    • Over-all, a nice article…IMO. The only line I questioned was this one. “First, he took the cast bronze chest. Then he took the valuables in a backpack.”

      I am not sure that Forrest has ever stated this to be a fact. Can anyone shed light on this one?

      Take care all and STAY SAFE


      • JD –

        First he took the chest and then the valuables? That’s a stretch – don’t think he ever said that.

        I don’t think it makes a dimes worth of diff…….as far as finding the TC.

        i would have taken the chest first as it would leave the most valuable items under lock and key……

        • Inthechase;

          I am not the one who said it. It was in the new article that Dal posted. Please note the quotation marks.

          Have a good day and STAY SAFE


        • Inthechaseto

          You contradict yourself – First line you say,”
          First he took the chest and then the valuables? That’s a stretch –”

          and your last sentence you say, “i would have taken the chest first as it would leave the most valuable items under lock and key……”

          The two sentences seem the same to me.

          But again, I didn’t say it, the author said it – be it right or wrong.


          • smiling JD –

            Ya got me – dang you mean I’m not perfect? I’ll have to work on that.

            The first part – What I meant was – I never heard FF say those words – and I know you didn’t hear or read those words by him either – other than in this article.

            the second part – is what I would have done –

          • Isn’t it funny how we all think differently. I would have taken the treasure first, in a backpack to the hidey location. Forrest would make sure he was not observed. It would be easy to hide a backpack under a couple of rocks, under brush or sticks of wood.

            The car in a parking lot, with no one around would be an easy target.

            Which is the least valuable, to be left in an easy target – the TC of course.

            Forrest returns, gets the TC – back to the hidey spot – combines the two, again makes sure he is not observed, and he hides the TC with its contents.

            To me this is more logical, but what do I know? NADA

            Have a SAFE search


          • JD –

            What parking lot ? IMO there was no parking lot involved.

            It’s my thinking that he went in there alone – so NO ONE else was near.

          • If I am not mistaken, Forrest has stated that he drove, and then it took him two trips in an afternoon to secret the treasure. He will have had to park somewhere. MAYBE it was not a parking lot, maybe he stopped at the side of the road and parked – Only Forrest knows for sure at this point. A parking lot works in MY solve, it may not in yours.


          • Again – isn’t it amazing how we all think differently

            Good luck in your search and STAY SAFE


    • Hello Dal. Thank you for the link. I’ve read it and I think it’s a good article. It seems the journalist may have been with Cynthia and her understanding of the possible clues. Wishing her all the best in her search. She has quite a head on her shoulders. I love the photos of Cynthia and Mr. Fenn, too.

    • Just read the article… sounds like it was written by a resentful 17 year doing a writing punishment. C minus. I’d like to read a re-write by Cynthia.

  33. Hi, I’d like to say that I confirmed from the author Fernanda who interviewed Forrest and wrote the article, he did state to her that he took the chest first and then the treasure, and he used a backpack.

    • cynthia –

      Thanks for the info about how he hid the TC………..I’m certainly not a lawyer – and, even though that is how I would have done it – it is still hear say. Tony D reported some things that later we found to be not so true. I tend to believe this reporter. Was she fun to be with?

    • IMO Did he walk any tangents on the way there?

      Or did he circle the chest and leave it square?

      • “Houston, we have a problem.”

        Hello locolobo. It does appear there is a discrepancy to how it was hidden, but does it really make a difference to the solve? I believe inthechaseto may have pointed this out earlier today. Could the order of how the two trips were made (treasure chest and treasures) determine the distance where it was hidden? If he brought the treasure chest in first, does it mean he could have traveled further than if he brought the treasures in first? I’m really not sure.

        • Actually, pdenver, it doesn’t matter to me whose words a searcher might want to believe.

          I was just pointing out to Cynthia that she might want to take the journalist’s words with a grain of salt…..something she, herself said to do.

          Depending on where Forrest chose or had to park, the intelligent decision may have been to take the gold in first.

          • Hello locolobo. You make a good point. I have read from others that they would have brought the gold in first. With “loose treasures,” would it have been wise to have brought in the treasures first? It probably doesn’t matter, but it is interesting none the less.

        • Hi pdenver & loco. Well now, this interesting that FF would mix up the sequence. But frankly, I don’t think it makes a gnat’s spit worth of difference what the order was. The box and its contents weigh about the same, each about 21 lbs, so the carrying load would’ve been the same.

          Also interesting is that FF said the box was cast bronze. I thought I just recently read on this blog somewhere that that was not the case, that it was formed, hammered or somesuch. If it were cast, the wood lining would not be necessary – at least for adding strength.

          Is it possible the Oracle is possible of “aberrations”? wink wink.

          • Hello melanie. He certainly keeps us on our toes with his comments. Definitely makes us think. He has talked about aberrations before. 🙂

            One more thing. You’ve seen gnat’s spit??? 😉

        • I didn’t think it mattered – the cart or the horse – but –

          If you have a room full of let’s say 50 people – and knowing there are 365 days in a yr – how many people will share a birthday.

          • On average, three pairs of people in that room would share a birthday. There is about a 13% chance that 3 people will share the same birthday.

      • Sure seems logical to me, and I will take Forrest’s word over a second-hand opinion any day.

        Just my opinion Good luck and STAY SAFE


      • This first version could be interpreted both ways if you think about it. He does not explicitly say which is actually first. This version sounds off the cuff…Forrest’s latest account is clearly saying which was first(treasure or chest) and which was second. I can believe this version. Either way, I cannot see why it makes any difference if Forrest was confident about the hidey spot and his well thought out plan. Parking a vehicle somewhere and making two trips to one spot could have any number of risks which always brings me back to the issue of distance and time. The more time spent, more risk; less time, less risk. Less time means less distance….

      • Thank you!! Loco

        But here’s Is not any problem… Does it matter which came first the Goose or the Egg.. The Jolly Green giant made two trips up and down the bean stalk, to go to Grandma’s house via the yellow brick road… The only problem is, do we go through the Haunted Forest or via Sherwood Forest?

      • Hi Loco – given f’s penchant to mess with people (about something not meaningful), would it be a stretch to say that maybe he purposefully pulled a reversal just for the fun of it and see how the masses would react?

        • Absolutely JCM. And they reacted just as I suspected they would! 🙂

          I gave no opinion of the quote when I posted it. I merely made some aware that he had made a different statement before. And, I was/am aware of his “1982” comment in that interview.

          Neither really affect my process, and progress. I, like you, just like to keep abreast of what’s trivia, and what is important.

          As Seeker said, all that matters is, Which Road?? One may take you to a forrest full of alligators, and the other to a bowl of Rainbow Stew.

          I shall refrain from posting links as they now seem to be passe, and nothing but trivia, if the content doesn’t match that particular searchers interpretation of the Poem.

          I await, and look forward to reading, the enlightened posts of searchers that contain “the stuff that matters”.

          Been fun, seeker…..again. 🙂

      • In the same interview he says that he started filling the treasure chest in 1982 when he had cancer (23:10). We all know that’s a mispeak. In my opinion, tracking trivia makes it hard to get at the stuff that matters.

    • That just goes to show you how wrong “logic” can be – me included!

      Great job Cynthia.

      Good luck in your search and STAY SAFE


      • So why not observe the what ifs? Maybe Fenn didn’t hide a chest.. Maybe there is another way to be rewarded. Obviously, there are 2 opposing statement, that are referenced from the man himself.. 1 of them is true.. Or none is true.
        I’d bet, he never hid a chest.. He hid something else, and the chest and it’s contents, and the box you need to think inside of.
        Good luck

        • Good grief Hammer, do you people do any research at all?

          I said on the Today show that the treasure is not associated with any structure. Some people say I have a desire to mislead. That is not true. There are no notes to be found or safety deposit boxes to be searched. The clues can lead you to the treasure, and it will be there waiting when you arrive.


          • You can hammer the nail on the head all day, but it’s hard to sink it into a thick brick wallnut.

  34. I probably haven’t put in enough effort, but I cannot find out when the “Firehole Canyon Drive” was put in. NPS did give any info but said to look at the history links, and nothing in it tells much about any of the roads. I anyone can find out when it was opened I would appreciate it. Trying to figure out how “private” it would have been in the 30’s-40’s. If you have some topo’s in that time period, check it out and let me know please.

  35. FYI:
    The blog views are beginning to pick-up. If you cannot get in later this evening it will probably be attributable to the NYT story. Give it some time and viewership will probably fade back to normal.

    • Yes, and I was just informed it moved up on the MSN Home Page, which will probably bring in more hits than just the NYT. Gotta love the Internet to get the information out there. Good or bad.

  36. OK, one more comment from me and then I will shut up. I went back to the Richard Eeds podcast from last May, 2015 where ff seemingly says he took the gold first and then took the treasure chest 2nd. Did you listeners also note how he said he started collecting things (to put in the chest) in 1982 when he had cancer and thought he was going to die? I always associated him and his cancer with 1988. Does the year really matter, though?

    I talked to Fernanda because I want to make sure she wrote what he said regarding the sequence of the two trips from his car. This is probably not important to most people but maybe it is important to some searchers. I heard him say he “took the chest first and then the treasure.” Whether or not he intentionally reversed these two statements, I don’t know. But I do know that on May 27th of this year on the Richard Eeds show, when asked about Fennboree, he called me Stephanie, and we had just exchanged brief emails minutes before he went on the show. And I didn’t call myself Stephanie. Forrest is almost 86 years old…I think we should give him a break when he uses the wrong year, or a different sequence, or calls me the wrong name. I’m ok with this … and I hope most of you are, too.


    • I agree completely Cynthia. He occasionally contradicts himself…who doesn’t? He once said in a radio interview that the chest was “buried”. He didn’t mean to say that…Heck, he didn’t even know he said it and then got into a “discussion” with the radio host who pointed out that Forrest had just said it was buried…Forrest of course claimed he never said it was buried…

      When you’ve given as many interviews as Forrest has, there are bound to be a few screw-ups. If you’re going to try and take everything he says as “gospel” then you’re going to need to carry around a bible and have him put his hand on it when he speaks…but kidding aside…if you start holding him to a lie detector test every time he speaks he’ll just stop talking and that will be the end of us hearing from him…so be careful what you call him out on…

      • Hi Dal,
        I remember him saying buried too. (more than once) I think many of us know he is sincere about this… I like to think he’s ALL IN on this one. There must be something to this buried idea, else why would he make a big deal out of it every time. “I never said it was buried.. I never said it wasn’t buried, too important of a clue” (paraphrasing) I even think he is telling the truth when he says it’s buried Half covered, covered, concealed, hidden all qualify. I like the picture of the woman opening the floor to reveal the square pottery.
        So Dal, you said you don’t find value in the omegas, but do you see any part of the poem as representing DEATH. No doubt the chest itself can be a symbolic coffin. The final place, a burial or grave, an omega. The several stories mention the graveyard and/or the field of stumps representing a WM Fenn’s grave. What symbolism do you see?

        • I see value in the two omegas – two ends – and that may give some explanation as to so much confusing information – buried and hidden. For me, the two omegas give credence to buried and to hidden. Now what?

      • It appears he’s gotten quiet. I think I would become silent if everything I ever said was put through such extensive analysis. Speech is the most difficult communication to ensure correctness. It occurs without the opportunity for review and revision before release. Verbal information tends not to be as correct as written – just what is. Many educated individuals make horrid grammar errors in speech that they would never make in writing. No one should be held to such a standard in communication.

    • Cynthia… You said…”we had just exchanged brief emails minutes before he went on the show. ”

      Do yo mean like he emailed you from his phone from the radio station?

      Also, Forrest was on The Richard Eeds Show on KVSF Radio on September 14th 2015… Did I miss another interview on May 27th?

    • Mistakes occur – just think how a simple story repeated from one person to another and another and another then returns to the original speaker – all distorted. It is difficult to ensure that ‘hearsay’ is correct and reporting what someone said tends to be ‘hearsay’. Good catch – some details are not important unless they are in the poem itself. When I think about the ‘chest’ and the ‘gold’ I realize that chances are I need to find the chest first and then the gold. Given that, I would not care which came first, but which I have to find first 🙂 IMO for me the poem is the interesting part, not every word that comes after the poem publication.

  37. The following is my opinion and opinion only. If i am write, the chest can be found during a blizzard.RC.

    • @RC that’s right! from Jenny’s Weekly Words: *If you know precisely where it is you can probably retrieve it in any weather (Posted Dec. 11th, 2015)

      So, if a searcher is waiting for a stream or river to subside are they searching in the wrong location or…..? IMO no special equipment needed.

      • IMO
        Another instance of FennSpeak here…” you can probably retrieve it in any weather ”

        If I knew PRECISELY where it was hidden, sure I would dig down through a snow drift if need be.

      • I don’t know – walking on ice is like walking on egg shells – not for me 🙂 I wonder what ‘special equipment’ would be.

      • It can be retrieved anytime of the year. The question is are we brave enough? Imo. RC.

          • Aren’t ya guys and dolls skipping over the obvious part… “If you know precisely where it is…”
            I’m not certain, however that seems to be key to me.

          • Any time of the year, yes if I am write the treasure chest can be retrieved any day out of the 365 days. My opinion and opinion only. RC.

          • RC, technically yes, but there is an opportune time, imo. Seeker, do gps coordinates count? : )

    • @Kedar’s mom. It’s my opinion that a searcher does not need a g.p.s. either. Just need to know where it is . RC.

      • Well, if you know where its at and how its hidden, then no gps, I agree.

    • Hello locolobo. Thank you for the link. I greatly appreciate it. The area Cynthia searched looks absolutely beautiful.

      • I forgot to mention I’ve enjoyed seeing Mr. Fenn’s collections. Seeing the medals was something I wondered about. You have an amazing collection, Mr. Fenn.

        • Hi pdenver, I also enjoyed seeing Mr. Fenn’s collections. They are total eye candy. It’s fun seeing Mr. Fenn in his office. Have a good day pdenver and all. 🙂

          • Hello Ramona. I agree 100% on all accounts. Hope you’re having a good day, too. 🙂

            When do you hope to go exploring again?

    • That is a beautiful video.

      One thing that’s creeped it’s way into my brain is the idea of mineral hunting. Gems, rocks, a person could make a little money while experiencing nature’s wonders.
      I might spend a lot of time in the Rockies in the coming years.
      What better way to live, eh?

      • LOL! I was laughing like crazy when Forrest said, “It’s here somewhere…..are we rolling?” Great to see such cool personality from someone this old 🙂

    • I really like this video. It’s one of my favorites so far. The area Cynthia was searching was beautiful. Truly wish I was there right now. Thank you Mr. Fenn and Cynthia. Also locolobo for posting it.

  38. Colokid — I, for one, find your more cynical (I would say “critical”) comments to be a refreshing alternative to the preponderance of atta-boys and “great solves” that dominate the blog. Most of the proffered solutions I’ve read here have demonstrated a lack of critical thinking skills, so what is wrong with reminding people that more than 60% of them aren’t even searching in the right state? Fenn himself has indicated that the successful hunter “thinks and plans and has an analytical mind and uses logic.” He didn’t say the successful searcher is the one that’s the nicest to everyone, tells them how great their solves are, and never offers constructive criticism.

    • Dang zap, I viewed your post with logic, thought deeply and analyzed it, and was going to offer constructive criticism……but I could find nothing wrong!! 🙂

    • zaphod, your comments are interesting. This one in particular. I’ve been doing research (lit review) on critical thinking and the poem. Would love to chat with someone of like mind – (critical thinking, statistics). If you would like to chat cathmaestra at gmail dot com love to toss ideas

  39. Fenn says the clues are straight forward. So I’ve been thinking about what exactly that means. I have learned that there is a style of poetry that is to be considered STRAIGHT FORWARD. It is called Plain Text Poetry.

    So of course I had to google “Plain Text Poetry”. This is what I found about it. ”
    “In rhetoric, the term plain style refers to speech or writing that is simple, direct, and straightforward. Also known as the low style, the scientific style, the simple style, and the Senecan style. In contrast to the grand style, the plain style does not rely heavily on figurative language. The plain style is commonly associated with the matter-of-fact delivery of information, as in most technical writing.According to Richard Lanham, the “three central values” of the plain style are “Clarity, Brevity, and Sincerity, the ‘C-B-S’ theory of prose” (Analyzing Prose, 2003). (http://grammar.about.com/od/pq/g/plainstyleterm.htm)

    So isn’t it possible that the clues being “straight forward” actually means that the discription of the clues is in “Plain Style”? Perhaps it doesn’t actually mean that the searcher is moving in a straightforward direction.

    What do all of you think about this?

    • The clues may be straightforward but FF loves to play with words; most of the important ones, IMHO, have a double meaning — one that fits the clue and another that is either, a) meaningful to his life, or, b) a word that is misleading to searchers. Take the word “chest,” for example,… most believe it is straightforward and refers to a treasure chest. I think it has a different meaning. This is the genius of the poem. Each word has a very precise meaning but each word also has multiple meanings.

      • Pandora- I agree that the words themselves have multiple meanings but when you put them together with the correct meanings (which may not be the familiar meaning) then the clues are straight forward

      • it does have a different meaning. He’s saying to see hest. Look up hest in the dictionary. It would help to solve the rest of that line of course.Oh yea, IMO.

  40. Just sayin…
    For instance, the person who was close, if they are still in the game, we are all giving information we may not think is important, but could be that just one thing is all they need…
    Are we all ready to have this found and not have the chase anymore?
    Whatever will we do?
    I’m not smart enough to do this for the next generation if I found it.
    But I do know I have ants in my pants. I want to go but can’t cause my partner cant/won’t yet.
    I don’t need the money, I just want the thrill, and I need a fix bad!

    • Hello Jdiggins. Slowly breathe in through the nose and exhale slowly through the mouth. Repeat until calm. If that doesn’t help, find the most decadent piece of chocolate cake and think nice thoughts. 😉

      You do pose good questions and I’ve wondered the same.

  41. “Wild West Plains to the Pacific”

    Hope this is the best place to post the following which may be of interest to those finding art, e.g. Thomas Moran, to be helpful in their chase and if you are going to be in the San Francisco, CA area before Sept 11th. I plan on visiting the exhibit and would enjoy having a lunch with any of you all that would visit there.


    Included in Wild West are works by Albert Bierstadt, Maynard Dixon, Ester Hernández, “Thomas Moran”, Eadweard Muybridge, Chiura Obata, Bill Owens, Frederic Remington, Ed Ruscha, Fritz Scholder, Michael Schwab, Wayne Thiebaud, Carleton Watkins, Emmi Whitehorse, and other artists, whose diverse range of approaches to the theme contribute to a multifaceted picture of the American West.

    • Hi ukem2it. Thought I’d just add another tidbit to your post for those that may be interested in more Western art, should they be in the Ft. Worth area b/t August – October. One of our own fellow searchers, Veryl Goodnight will have a 30-piece solo retrospective show of her work (both oil paintings and bronze sculptures) on display at the National Cowgirl Museum and Hall of Fame from July 21st thru October 30th (1720 Gendy St., Ft. Worth, TX). She will be inducted to the Hall of Fame on Oct. 27th.

      Regarding Veryl and her connection to FF, here’s one of Dal’s earlier posts from 2012 for those that may not have caught it:

  42. An open question that might not even be relevant. Why are there isogonic lines (compass deviation) on FF’s map? Surely we’re not supposed to pick up a true heading and correct it from a map that covers several states??

  43. I was re-reading the chapter “My War For Me” and something puzzled me since it
    is completely out of context.

    I wonder if anyone has any comments on this.

    The photograph “Peggy modeling her swimsuit”. What in the world does this
    photograph have any relation to the chapter? Is this what you would call an “aberration”?

    • He was off to war. Peggy was on his mind.
      Not out of context at all, if you think about it.

    • UA –

      Always thought all of the beginning photos of that chapter – rather unrelated……., of course – it could be his thoughts, like Buckeye Bob thinks. I think I’ve got the wedding photo down as to why (rather not say why) but the modeling one has me stumped too.

      • UA –

        During WW2 – bathing suit pin ups where all the rage – btw – I do think WW2 is important to the chase. Perhaps this is FF’s great sense of humor coming thru again, to show us – his pin up…..during war. I like it..

    • UA – You wrote:

      UA on July 7, 2016 at 10:16 pm said:

      I was re-reading the chapter “My War For Me” and something puzzled me since it
      is completely out of context.

      I wonder if anyone has any comments on this.

      The photograph “Peggy modeling her swimsuit”. What in the world does this
      photograph have any relation to the chapter? Is this what you would call an “aberration”?

      There is a faint image of the Three Forks area in Montana seemingly highlighted on the very faint background map behind Peggy modeling her swimsuit,…to her right. That’s where the Madison, the Jefferson and the Gallatin Rivers flow into the Missouri River. To me,…that is the beginning aerial blaze for Forrest to locate one of his favorite places,…and for searchers to find it,…and IMO the X it makes leads “quickly down” via plane to the IMO location of the bronze chest. So maybe he was thinking of Peggy AND his adventures near his summer home in West Yellowstone during the war? I imagine him seeing a blaze I found from the air,…marking my spot,…as he circles the runway to land in West Yellowstone.

      Forrest said he wasn’t going to put an X on the map for us,…because the Creator already did,…right there at Three Forks in Montana. IMO. 😉

        • UA – Uh,…maybe I DID find that WWWH where those three rivers end and the Missouri River begins,…close to Three Forks:


          “Soon after its origin, the Missouri River flows over Totson Dam. This dam doesn’t regulate river flows. Instead, during periods of high water, the water flows over the top of the dam. This releases warm surface water into the river, which is not ideal for trout habitat.”

          Many parts of my solutions were found on trout fishing websites,…because Forrest is such an avid trout fisherman.

          • UA – Oops! But then I heard Forrest say WWWH was NOT at a dam,…which is why I tossed that WWWH location. Nevermind!

      • Sorry to but in E,
        If that’s the Three Forks area there then it’s on many pages in the book.
        If you look at the other pages you will see the same pattern & mirrored at times.
        Appears to be a generic background to me used throughout the book.

        • Jake – OK. Nevermind. Wait! Why did he use THAT particular background with Three Forks MULTIPLE times, then? 🙂

          • If it is the TFR area and it is mirrored on different locations then which direction would be correct to go? E* I know what your saying though… you might be close to me? one question E* – what’s your biggest hurdle?

          • James – I would fly my Piper plane from the confluence of those rivers at Three Forks “canyon down” to Yellowstone Airport,…via the Gallatin or Madison Rivers (I have solves for both).

            My biggest hurdle is an ever-present Boar Grizzly. He is pretty hard to jump over.

          • You know E,
            I am beginning to think every book is unique.
            That background appears to be the stock material itself.
            I could be wrong but if you can take a picture of that page & post it here, we will know better.

          • Jake – I do not own a copy of either of the two books. I saw the picture of Peggy back in October 2013,…when I read both.

          • Oh! E*
            So your relying on your memory of that page & picture in the book from 3 years ago?
            I hope you have a photographic memory.

          • Jake – I like maps. I REALLY like to remember maps. I like playing with maps. I like using my online mytopo.com map in satellite and terrain view to go as close as I can to the ground to find a blaze,… or maybe even the bronze chest. Hey,…I wonder,…is that is a “tight focus” of about 200 feet? Does anyone know how close to the ground that drill down feature goes in Google Earth?

          • Jake – Thank you! So how close to the ground to I get on mine in satellite view? Do you know???

          • No, I do not know E,
            That topo is very similar including the shadows to GE.
            We need to hijack a military spy satellite to get the details.

    • Agreed JD. it’s another sad day in America. I understand that “focused” was in Dallas yesterday. It would be nice to hear from him or her to let us know they are safe. Prayers to all the families affected. Everyone please be safe.

      • Yes, how SAD!!! Violence only begets violence!

        PEACEFUL protesters protesting the deaths of two souls. Sometimes police HAVE to resort to lethal force in order to stop further violence, but SOMETIMES that lethal force CAN be misused.

        Killing police officers IS NOT the answer!

        Just my personal opinion.


        TRY to STAY SAFE


      • Eaglesabound. . I’m safe and leaving Dallas this morning…heading to austin. And yes my prayers to the families affected also….. until next time…see ya

        • Thank you so much focused. Since Randy disappearance, I worry about all my fellow searchers. I’m happy you’re safe and have safe travels. I really love your poems and look forward to many more.

    • Thanks JD,
      Crazy people in this world & no, there is no truly safe place anywhere.
      Well, he didn’t answer the question about a cell phone. Guess he didn’t want to give that as a hint or clue.
      The treasure is safe for now.

      • JF you have 0 proof that the treasure is safe. It is your opinion , follow these blog rules please and say IMO

        The onus is on him to prove it is safe just as the burden is on me to prove utherwise – this could go on for quite sometine and may result in a new owner of all the trademark patents etc

        In other words the entire chase is willed to another upun death.

        What good is a chase without a secret?

        • YUP – Looked it up – Here it is:
          adjective: safe; comparative adjective: safer; superlative adjective: safest

          protected from or not exposed to danger or risk; not likely to be harmed or lost.
          “eggs remain in the damp sand, safe from marine predators”
          synonyms: secure, protected, shielded, sheltered, guarded, out of harm’s way
          “the jewels are safe in the bank”
          antonyms: insecure, at risk
          having reached a base without being put out.
          “Davis was safe when the right fielder dropped a fly ball”
          allowing the batter to reach base and not involving an error.
          “a safe hit”
          not likely to cause or lead to harm or injury; not involving danger or risk.
          “we have to cross the river where it’s safe for us to do so”
          synonyms: secure, sound, impregnable, unassailable, invulnerable More
          “a safe place to hide”
          harmless, innocuous, benign, nontoxic, nonpoisonous
          “the drug is safe”
          antonyms: dangerous, harmful
          (of a place) affording security or protection.
          “put it in a safe place”
          cautious and unenterprising.
          “MacGregor would be a compromise, the safe choice”
          synonyms: cautious, circumspect, prudent, attentive; More
          unadventurous, conservative, unenterprising
          “a safe driver”
          antonyms: reckless
          based on good reasons or evidence and not likely to be proved wrong.
          “the verdict is safe and satisfactory”
          uninjured; with no harm done.
          “they had returned safe and sound”
          synonyms: unharmed, unhurt, uninjured, unscathed, all right, well, in one piece, out of danger, home free; informalOK
          “the lost children are all safe”
          antonyms: in danger

          noun: safe; plural noun: safes

          a strong fireproof cabinet with a complex lock, used for the storage of valuables.
          synonyms: strongbox, safety-deposit box, safe-deposit box, coffer, strongroom, vault
          “I keep the ring in a safe”
          North Americaninformal
          a condom.

          I doubt that it refers to Noun – 2a


          Stay “SAFE”


          • Lol..me neither on 2!
            But this has me curious……….based on good reasons or evidence and not likely to be proved wrong.

          • This puts a whole new fear on the idea of Grizzlies coming out of hibernation.

  44. “SAFE” as in baseball just means one directed the ball and then stayed one step ahead of often accompanied by a carefully orchestrated slide, skid, or run hitting the base, or home plate,….before being declared “out” (insert dumb ‘of the box’ pun here)

    But really think about it…safe traces the edge of the diamond, only halts or pauses for quick reflection at corners….and best of all begins and ends at the same place….with a catcher to your back , the wind to your face, and the only thing between you and the ball is your ability to swing just right.

    Forgive my Sermon of the Edge of the World Series….but there’s four safe places right there. The fifth? Well, one might have to ask the six year old boy in the stands who just caught his first Homer off his father’s shoulders….rumor has it he can still feel his hands stinging in his finest of dreams. Safley tucked and hush-a-byed to sleep the very same fugue as an old man as he was as a six year old boy. Maybe one day hell get that ball signed so he can put it in a glass box on his Mantle…until then I think there’s a good probability that unsigned and under his pillow is the safest place that ball could probably be.

    Just IMO.

      • “it is 8-7, one out, and school will never start, rain will never come, sun will warm the back of your neck forever” (my favorite line besides Every summer having a little autumn in it)

        Enchanting and wow.
        Just WOW. what I wouldn’t do to have lunch with that guy one day…i just read it twice.
        Naked. Thanks SL LOVES!

    • Marathon Man Dustin Hoffman probably still has nightmares about being asked, “Is it safe?”

    • Your “pun here” sure is, thinking outside the box.

      You know, I haven’t been reading the blogs lately but I was searching the internet and I saw “Pilot to hold raffle”. Made me think of the Forrest and the Chase and that maybe I do have a chance.

  45. hi everybody, I’ve been following you all for awhile now and have learned a lot from you seasoned tc hunters. I wish I could say I have a solid solve but I don’t, just some beginning level hunches. But I can’t help but notice the face of the west bndy of Montana and wonder if Forrest incorporated that in the clues some how. He seems to be very visual.

    • Let’s face it, that depends on how you look at it.

      Just kidding – Welcome Danker.

      Good luck in your search, and TRY to STAY SAFE


        • Of the many quotes from Forrest, this one seemed to help me the most:,“Here is what I would do. Read my book in a normal manner. Then read the poem over and over and over, slowly – thinking. Then read my book again, this time looking for subtle hints that will help solve the clues.” f.

          Again, Good luck with your search, and TRY to STAY SAFE


    • A ‘lil birdie told me JD swears the chest is somewhere in or around Jackson Wyo (why they don’t wanna include ‘hole’ any longer is beyond me)…shhh keep it to yourself

      • Being a VERY close friend of JD, I can honestly tell you that your little birdie is NOT correct. I know for a fact that JD IS NOT searching around Jackson or Jackson Hole if you prefer.

        But what do I know, I am only JD’s little friend.

        JD’s buddy

      • Figuring out where JD is searching should not be TOOOOOO hard. There are only 111 mountain ranges in Wyoming. If you subtract the 24 mountain ranges that are below 5,000′ that only leaves 87 mountain ranges that you need to cull through.

        Good luck, and happy Hunting and TRY to STAY SAFE

        JD’s buddy

      • Always thought Jackson was the city, and Jackson Hole was the canyon nearby….

        • You are right. Wikipedia says, “Jackson is a town in the Jackson Hole valley of Teton County, Wyoming, United States. The population was 9,577 at the 2010 census, up from 8,647 in 2000. It is the county seat of Teton County and is its largest town.[6]

          Jackson is the principal town of the Jackson, WY-ID Micropolitan Statistical Area, which includes Teton County in Wyoming and Teton County in Idaho.

          The town is often erroneously referred to as “Jackson Hole”, the valley in which it is located.

          Way to go! Good luck JCS – STAY SAFE

  46. FYI-
    This comes under the heading, BELIEVE IT OR NOT

    Forrest is scheduled to be on radio in Bogota Columbia, live, on Sunday at 830am Santa Fe, New Mexico time. He’ll be on the Julio Sanchez Cristo show.
    I think it might turn up as a podcast here:

    But those of you with Spanish moxie may be able to find a better link…
    At any rate, I will post a link when they send one….

    • Thanks for the heads-up Dal.
      I’ll be sure to be sipping on a good cup of Joe for this one.

    • Dal,

      I guess they want to question him about is unscheduled flights there and back in the mid 80’s.


    • Dal – So was Forrest really listening in Spanish Class,…and that party of his story in the book is an aberration? Is the interview going to be in SPANISH??? 😉

      • E-
        I think there will be an interpreter. Forrest will probably hear and respond in English…
        But he does live in NM…so he probably has a handle on Spanish comprehension..
        He does have a hearing issue and the phone does not make it better so this could be difficult for him…

        • Dal –

          En este situacion, oyendo por telefono muchas veces es dificil de todos modos. Por supuesto para Forrest, va a ser mas dificil. Ojala que si Julio habla mas despacio, Forrest puede oir lo que esta hombre esta diciendo, sin usando este persona de traducir.

          OK,…that was fun! I haven’t taken Spanish Class since I was 20 years old! Just copy/paste the paragraph into Google Translate to see what I wrote. We didn’t have that back in the day for help. It’s missing some ‘acentos’,…because I STILL don’t know how to create those on this keyboard. Thank you very much for the info.

    • I thought it was a good interview. Wish I knew Spanish so I could hear how well the translator did, as well as, at the end of the broadcast of what the hosts were saying about the treasure. I could hear a “thrill” in their voices. 🙂 Well done, Mr. Fenn! 🙂

  47. Would love to see if Mr. Fenn would be willing to give an update on the “proximity (500′ – 200′) question” and provide hope to thousands of Fenn adventurers. Would he answer, “As of this date, has anyone shared details that indicate they were near enough to spot a clue within 50 ft. of your amazing TC?”

    I am sure that everyone would like to know and I -believe- that he would say “Yes (in his typical Fennish way).” Or – has he already done so?

    • IMO, how would that help anyone?
      There are many of us that have not told F where we are searching.
      I just don’t see how this helps.

    • LMN –

      You have to be so careful – how a question is worded when asked of Forrest. You asked “has anyone shared” . Shared with who – him? in other words – how the heck would he know. For me personally – I don’t care if anyone walked on top of it. Unless it’s in their hand – it doesn’t matter.

      • Inthechaseto;

        Have you had BOTG this year? I am guessing that you have not, since you do not care if anyone had been closer than 200′ or 500′ to the TC.

        I, on the other hand, have been out 6 times this year, and I most certainly would like to know if that # had been reduced to – say 50′. That info COULD mean a lot to me. I KNOW where I have been, and I KNOW what I have told Forrest about my trecks.

        Just a thought and an opinion.

        Good luck in your search and TRY to STAY SAFE


        • Hey JD…
          I feel your enthusiasm, and wish you and others the best of luck in your quests. With that said, I ask you how anything Forrest comments on, could possibly motivate you to think he is directly referring to you, or your solve. With the numbers of searchers growing on a daily basis, I cannot for the life of me, understand how anyone could be that sure he is directing ANYTHING at one particular person. In fact, it could make those who think that way go on a lot of pointless treks. Just curious and not nitpicking in any way…

          • The probability that Forrest MIGHT have directed ANY comment directly at me is minute, but it is FUN to at least contemplate the possibility.

            IF I had told Forrest that I had searched a particular definable area, and he then says that “someone” had been within 50′.

            Regardless of whether that person had been me, or someone else, you can bet your bottom dollar that I would be back to that location looking VERY closely – JUST IN CASE.


        • JD –

          It’s always been my opinion that until I had a completed solve via the blueprint – that I would not have all the info needed to complete the hunt.

          Yes, I have had BOTG.

          If that question will help you in any way – then I think someone should ask it.

          Have a nice day………..

        • Hey JD
          My wife and I have been out 3 times so far this year from the south side of Chicago. I don’t see how that would make a difference unless he said that someone found it. Just because he might answer that question doesn’t mean that he’s talking about us. He for sure will not say a name in either case. We are planning another trip at the end of August during my wife’s vacation. I am going to find it and i will let you know….IMHO

          • Hey!!!!JD
            You said you where going on the 22 of July? OH wait… Yea the wife said NO to going before August. Dang it!!!
            What state are heading out to???

          • Timothy A

            I thought everyone knew I was searching Wyoming – NOT YNP

            Good luck in August – IF I do not find it first. TRY to STAY SAFE


          • The “TRY” relates to this weeks MW Post – Safe is an absolute – Absolutes are not a reality so all one can do is try.

            so: Good luck and TRY to STAY SAFE


    • Wait till the end of the search season then you’ll most likely get that answer to your question of proximity or clues solved. I bet Fenn gets emailed this question a lot so searchers can try to validate there search area.

  48. So JD, I gotta ask…
    Do you feel this is as simple as eliminating every possible “canyon down”? I believe what Fenn said is we have to ‘figure out what the clues mean’. Kinda like how every military mission is given a short title/code name. I’m not implying codes or ciphers, just cleaver word usage, a hallmark of Mr Fenn .

    I’m all about databases, here’s one

    obviously you can’t pour over every detail on a TOPO map, but if you come up good ‘cleaver names’ you can ferret them out on that site.

    IMO, there must be something unique about this one particular Canyon, I’m guessing it’s in the NAME not just which way, which direction it slopes.

    • 9clues;

      Starting at “Canyon Down” seems a bit strange to me.

      I have said many times – “one sentence = one clue”, so it is obvious that I started at Stanza #1. I have also talked about the architecture of the puzzle being a circle.

      I found a word somewhere in the last two stanzas that pointed me to wwwh – which of course leads to canyon down, not far but too far to walk etc.

      As it happens, I had used a theory for three failed solves in Montana for figuring out wwwh. I used this same theory in Wyoming. So in this case, I started at wwwh – saw the word in the last two stanzas and this word verified that in fact, I
      had picked the correct wwwh.

      Long story for a short question. No, the name of MY canyon would NEVER have lead me to wwwh or hoB. I am not even sure that my canyon has a name.

      This is just how it worked for me.

      Lot of luck, and TRY to STAY SAFE


      • JD….”And take it in the canyon down”

        I’ll give you a failed example, Poacher Trail (2) or Poacher Creek (1). Going back thru f’s stories, from everything he has touched on, (..trappers, Lewis and Clark, Forrest absconding w/ a pie, Forrest taking a whipping) a cleaver use of the word like Poach could be this particular waypoint…but probably not

        Sounds crazy, maybe.
        I was reading over some ‘Environmental Impact Reports’, where they specifically talk about protected or endangered species.
        Just because a utility or corporation is granted a work permit doesn’t mean the Federal Govt is going to let them off, NO in each and every instance that is known as a ‘take’, the permit holder probably gets socked w/ huge fines, but if you or I killed something protected we could face jail time.

  49. Hey JD
    Your circle theory has a small road bump in as to complete a full circle you have to know the actual starting point. without that you’re just out there drawing lines in the sand. Is your theory starting at wwwh then you have to be 100% positive that that is correct. Or, are you using Santa Fe 8.25mls as your starting point, then that means you have to know if that 8.25 is from the center of Santa Fe or the furthest point outside of Santa Fe. So many different theories with the circle thing I don’t know how anyone could use that without knowing 100% that where they start is the same place that f wants someone to start at.
    Sorry about this JD as you are one of the people that I really enjoy this blog with.
    Hope this kind of makes since and doesn’t peeve you off but I have tried to make this theory work because it would answer a couple of questions for me.IMHO

    • Forrest has said “Here is what I would do. Read my book in a normal manner. Then read the poem over and over and over, slowly – thinking. Then read my book again, this time looking for subtle hints that will help solve the clues.” f

      Yes, we each must start somewhere. If you start at line #1,. Stanza #1 – “As I went alone in there…etc” You learn that you have to “Go IN THERE” – problem is, you do not know where, “IN THERE” is yet. This line just prepares you for actions that need to be taken later in the poem.

      “Begin it wwwh” . If you have NO idea where to begin, you are in trouble. so go back to paragraph #1 above – – read, re-read and read the poem again and again. read TTOTC for hints. Trust me, they are in there.

      As I hinted at in my last post. I found a single word some where in the last two stanzas that told where wwwh is located. It is not easy, but it is not impossible. ANYONE CAN find the word, and this one word will get you on your way…then the circle architecture will take over, taking you from a global view of where the treasure is, to a finite description of EXACTLY where the treasure is.

      All theory SO FAR – hope to prove the theory soon.

      Good Luck and TRY to STAY SAFE.

      Hope this helps. – I hope that I have not disclosed too much.


      • JD – Is that word in THIS line of one of those stanzas?:

        “So why is it that I must go?”

        Thank you for your post. I thought it was AWESOME! 🙂

        I look at my solution as narrowing down from a very large circle from an aerial viewpoit into gradually smaller concentric circles until you get to my spot. Sort of a pilots perspective. I just think Forrest did a lot of fine thinking when he was “alone in there”,…or maybe ‘alone in th’air’ (that’s my quote).

        • Sorry, you will have to find the word on your own. No more hints. I have probably disclosed too much information already.

          Your ever smaller circle idea is intriguing.

          Good luck in your search and TRY to STAY SAFE


          • JD – Thank you for helping all of us! That is my intention here also. I don’t hold back much,…as you will see. I just want the bronze chest to be FOUND!!!! 🙂

          • I hope to help as much as I can, but I do not want there to be a stampede to my site. Two weeks from today i HOPE to end this FUN.FUN search.

            If not, who will be baking the humble pie and frying the crow? I will be the one eating : – ))) YUM-YUM


          • E*: since JD has made no secret of the fact that he is searching in Wyoming (but not in YNP), your suggestion that his keyword might be in “So why is it that I must go” isn’t a bad guess [So(uthern) WY(oming) is it …]. But I highly doubt that’s it since JD has said figuring it out is *not* easy, and this could scarcely be easier. Also, simply narrowing the search area from 4 states to the southern half of one state is not going to help you isolate a unique and unambiguous WWWH.

            That said, most of the colored-in part of Wyoming on Forrest’s map hardly compares to Yellowstone or the Grand Tetons in the iconic beauty department (i.e., Forrest isn’t likely to hide the treasure in an oil field.) So it’s not a very long list of places that JD is likely to favor for his solution.

          • I posted something last night that stated that there are 111 mountain ranges in Wyoming – minus 24 that are below 5.000′ – that only leaves 87 mountain ranges to cull through.

            Good Luck and Happy Hunting, and TRY to STAY SAFE


          • zaphod – You’ll have to bear with me,…I just started reading the blogs again this week,…so I am behind on who is looking where,…and I was unfamiliar with JD’s not-in-YNP search area. I was just giving my gut feeling answer to his clue in his post,…which took me right to Dal’s WWWH,…which looks like the letter ‘Y’ to me!:


          • You MAY? be able to find me a tutu that fits, but without the proper shoes, I will not be able to POINTE to where the word is.

            Tee Hee


          • That is a rather troubling image. I just can’t figure out why, on so many levels. But I love it! Thanks E*!

            I once saw a small group of elephants wearing pink tutus being parading down Constitution Ave in DC at morning rush hour (fer reals – too early for altered mind tricks). They caused a huge traffic jam and bolluxed all the side streets for hours after. Made quite an impression on me. Was writing specs for a GSA building project at the time. In the General Requirements/Div 1 section, I inserted a clause under the heading of “Acts of God” for delays that a contractor should not be responsible for: Elephants parading in pink tutus. To their credit, GSA caught the joke and I had to redact it.

            Sorry. To get back on topic……

            Take a look around your topo for other lakes in the vicinity. I think you’ll find some hold interest. And, yes, mytopo.com is a great resource. And it’s free!

          • Hi Melanie – Pleased to meet ‘ya! And thanks for that great story. I live for those.

            And yes,…I think at this point I have explored all of the geological features and waterways surrounding that area with my favorite topo map software. I pretend I’m in a Piper plane…

          • Nice to meet you too, E*.
            I offer you this piece of up close, personal intel on that area (and I use/prefer the same topos you do): the marked trails to Avalanche Lake are long and strenuous. IMO, not what FF did twice in an afternoon. I’ve done the hike from Beaver to Axolotl Lake and let me tell you….. as the crow flies, that was only one quarter/third the distance you’re talking about to Avalanche Lake from about the same starting point. I had a 15 pound day pack on my back. Even if you can trace a fairly level grade, it’s pretty rough going. And, it’s at about 10- 11K’ elev to start.

            So, unless there’s another way into Avalanche Lake, that’s just too far for FF (or me!) to have hiked in twice in one afternoon with 21 lbs each time. But who knows….maybe there’s a “back door” not on the maps? I have to say tho, those topos are VERY accurate. And, it does NOT appear friendly for landing fixed wing aircraft. A little high for a helicopter, but not impossible…????

            Good luck to ya! Beautiful country up there. Watch yer back…..griz!

          • JD and zaphod – OK,…more on this post and that letter ‘Y’ formed by the confluence of the rivers at Madison Junction in YNP:


            I chose that spot as the WWWH for my main solve,…not because of the named rivers coming together (the Firehole and the Gibbon) being the “warm waters”,…as Dal did,…but because the boundary of the Yellowstone Caldera occurs right there,…which makes the waters outside that volcanically active boundary colder for ff’s trout fishing:


            And just to prove Dal’s and my proposed WWWHs,…how about putting ‘The Madison River’ in for every instance of “it” in the Poem,..especially here:

            Begin (The Madison River) where warm waters halt

            The Madison River DOES begin there,…at Madison Junction,…and where warm waters halt (vocanically AND by the two Firehole and Gibbon river appellations).


            So why (=’Y’ in Wy?) is (The Madison River) where I must go…
            I’ve done (The Madison River) tired and now I’m weak.

            Didn’t ff use that section of the river below Madison Junction in the preface of TFTW? He was wearing waders and had his dingy floating nearby (no fishing from boats in YNP) and attached to him, right? Something about 10 miles being TFTW,…especially wearing waders.

            I personally think that Forrest fished right there,…as sort of a last hurrah,…the morning he hid the bronze chest,…when he was 79 or 80. After that,…and the publication of The Chase and TTOTC book,…I think he knew he would be exposed going back there.

            And I STILL think he had NO problem making this hike after that,…from Noon onward (see my comments above that with zaphod):


          • I wasn’t buying into the “Y” being visible on a map or even being necessary anywhere. But then I figured out WWWH and it took me about 2 min to find it on the map even though i previously was unaware it even existed. Surprisingly, my WWWH has a neatly designed by nature herself “Y” sitting right on top of it. Huh, guess I need to rethink the “Y”.

        • melanie – I was making a point about what Forrest may think “a few miles is” by using the Avalanche Lake story info. for comparison. I never thought he hid his bronze chest up there,…per my comment here:


          But he doesn’t say he hiked back down in the same day from Avalanche lake,…does he? DID he???? That would be FOURTEEN MILES total in that (heavy loads and water high?) terrain. If you read my proposed treasure hiding hike in the post above,…you will see that is so very tame in comparison to that one.

          So how hard WAS it to hike from the parking area at Potamogeton Pond to Axolotyl Lake btw? How far and how much time and effort did it take? It is important to one aspect of my solve. Did you see what an Axolotyl IS btw?:


          • Hi E*. Yes, I did know what an axolotl is! Strange little thing, ain’t it? It’s often (erroneously) described as a tadpole that doesn’t take the next step into froghood. In my very early days of searching, frogs figured into one of my solves given FF liked to adorn his bells and jars with them and also that he mentions a frog (p. 130), which is prominently shown on p.133. Also, this frog is pre-Columbian….. a nod to the Nahuatl word axolotl? Since then, FF said something that blew my frog theory out of the water. lol.

            To answer your question, the hike would not have been particularly difficult except for the fact that we did it the weekend before Memorial Day. The weather was awful, the mud was deep and the streams were very high. It was a real slog under those conditions. Got a boot sucked clean off. The hike itself was about 3 miles. If I recall correctly, it took us about 2 hours or so each way (not counting the time at the lake). Fording Timber Creek was tricky/took time and we were carrying gear/equipment. BTW, I was wrong about the elevation. Not 10-11,000′. Only about 7500′. My memory mis-remembered due the weather and that trees were scarce up there, altho that was due to a burn (“in the wood” and “blaze”? not.) and not cuz we were above tree-line.

            I understood your point about “a few miles”. To your point, I believe the distance b/t Madison Slide and Avalanche Lake is about 4.5 miles, as the crow flies. This conversion site is helpful and takes into account earth’s curvature (even for crows): http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/gccalc.shtml

          • Puzz, “Y” is in reference to Skippy, knowledge, buried him standing up, Indiana Jones, shadow, and 7.

            It is a stick(switch) 7′ tall in the shape of a “Y”. It is used like the staff in Indiana Jones. At certain place, certain time, it will cast a shadow of a certain distance which must be followed. Just saying…

          • Charlie, I’ve never thought “Y” needed to be found. Haven’t been looking for “Y”. Have been just thinking about WWWH. Then it finally came to me that we all know where warm waters halt and so do most children. The answer is so simple that, as Fenn has said, you will say, “why didn’t I think of that?”. It was so simple that I just know and didn’t know I knew. Had to figure it out without the map, the dictionary, the thesaurus, history, geography, etc. I just had to think. Once I figured it out by thinking, all I had to do was spend 2 minutes and I found it on the map. That is why a child would know they answer; because we all know the answer. It could just be coincidence that there is a “Y” created by Mother Nature. Is it important to the poem? Not entirely sure yet.

  50. We are in a Fire Weather Alert here in parts of Colorado! Be very careful and stay safe out there while searching!

  51. LOL!!! I wondered who would fill in for Seeker while he’s on vacation!!

    HELLO E*, nice to see ya back!!! I wasn’t certain that was really you, but it really does seem to be you?? You gonna stay around awhile, this time?? 🙂

    really enjoy your posts….. Good Luck to Ya

      • The Wolf – Yippee!!!! I was hoping you would see my posts on Saturday and come back to play here at Dal’s with me!!!! This is going to be fun….

    • locolobo – I’m really Baaaack! And I don’t intend to leave until that goldarned bronze chest is FOUND! Common you searchers out there,…let’s GET THIS THING!!!!

  52. Forrest said a man was closest but there may have been some women with him…veterans remember this, but I’m sorry I cannot pull the quote with my current IT capabilities….
    Anyway, maybe this guy can’t go back cause his wife won’t go, and won’t let him go alone. Maybe he knows, but she doesn’t believe…
    Just a silly thought…

    • jdiggins – Greetings! Here’s the quote:


      Who has been the closest to the chest; man or woman? (that you know of)

      “As far as I know the closest person to the treasure was a man, but there may have been a woman with him. The most common mistake that I see searchers make is that they underestimate the importance of the first clue. If you don’t have that one nailed down you might as well stay home and play Canasta.f”

      • De natha..
        Missed you mucho!
        California spanish, forgive por favor…
        Gracias deus! 😉

    • dal – There is always a debate on which of these two would be the proper response:

      Qué lástima! What a pity!

      Qué pena! What a shame!

      I’ll listen to it after I’ve had WAY too much fun posting here on your blog,…thanks again! 🙂

      • dal – I thought the interview was excellent! And that the woman translating the questions and Forrest’s answers did a great job. Some of it was a little fast for me to understand completely,…but I got most of it.

        Now maybe a Chinese radio host will contact Forrest to do an interview,…I read in this National Geographic May 2016 Yellowstone issue that more Chinese are coming to the park:


  53. Dal, thanks for keeping the blog relevant and up to date. You do an excellent job. I’m amazed at how productive Forrest is, and I don’t mean for an octogenarian! He accomplishes more in a month than I do in a year.

  54. Of interest to me is Forrest’s connection through JH. Sharp to the Crow Nation. Because Forrest and Peggy attended the Crow/Shoshone sun dance in Montana, I thought it was interesting to learn more about this sacred ceremony. (Note: Crow Agency is not in the Rocky Mountains, but adjacent the Big Horn Mountains which transverse MT & WY.



  55. “Go in peace” possible application to poem: who knew that grizzly bears are a sign of peace and friendship to the Native Americans. Additionally, Lewis and Clark exchanged brown bear claw necklaces with tribes they encountered and were respected by the Indians for being brave warriors. Interesting to me.
    Application to the poem would be grizzly territory I guess. It would be so fun to hear Forrest talk about the bear rug on his den wall. Just guessing it belonged to a medicine man from the Bear Society, or to a Chief named for the brown bear. http://www.lewis-clark.org/article/3047

    • Anna – Thank you for that info! You KNOW I love all things Grizz. There was a great article in National Geographic a few years ago about how the Miwok Indians consider bears to be family members. I was going to consult one of their tribal elders to see if he could help me get to my spot. I did find this link, though:


      “My family’s association with Yosemite is nothing, of course, beside the millennia of tenancy by the original inhabitants, the Ahwahneechee. This band of Sierra Miwok lived here forever, by their own account. Ahwahnee is their name for this valley. ‘Yosemite’ itself may derive from uzamati, the Miwok word for grizzly bear.”

      • E* Interesting that you mention Yosemite. We have a vacation home 20 min outside Yosemite. Our children grew up with Yosemite as their backyard and we love it there. We have a friend who is a direct descendant of the Miwok indians. He is very proud of that connection.

        • Puzzled – That is so GREAT! Can your friend introduce me to that tribal elder I read about in National Geographic? I really LOVE the Grizzes,…and don’t want my searching for the bronze chest to upset My Grizz in any way. Did I mention that the folks from Vital Ground were here at the local library for a biologist talk (Doug Chadwick) on the Grizzes and Wolverines? Sadly,…they did not bring Bart the Bear with them. 🙁


          • E* My friend is going through a tough time with his health right now. Not sure this is the best time to ask him to introduce us to the tribal elder. Maybe if things improve for him in a few months.

      • E* thanks for the Yosemite/grizz information. We hiked Yosemite last month and spent time with a Miwok descendent in the park’s museum. He explained what you just posted with reference to “Uzamati”

        I know you love your buddie Bart the Bear. Hmmm, is he a real grizzly? Just kidding you. I loved the TV series Grizzly Adams I the 1970’s. Dan Hagarty and Bozo/Ben were endearing in a rough way. Have you read about the original mountain man, Grizzly Adams? A relative of John Adams who lived among the Miwok in California who captured, befriended, and trained grizzly bears. He also traveled to Montana. The mountain man, Grizzly Adams named his bear Ben Franklin. So, to please Goofy, let me tie this back to the poem… If you’ve “Ben” wise. Ben Franklin the bear, and Ben Franklins statement Three people can keep a secret if Two of them are dead.


        • Anna – That was precious. No I was not familiar with Grizzly Adams. Thank you.

          And we’re just discussing the possibly Grizz-related aspects of THESE lines from The Poem,…aren’t we?:

          “Put in below the home of Brown”

          “From there it’s no place for the meek,
          The end is ever drawing nigh”

          I know I am. My Grizz ALWAYS seems to know when I am on The Chase,…trying to get to my spot.

  56. Anyone have thoughts?

    Why must I go AND leave my trove for all to seek?

    the reasons [plural] I already know:

    I’ve done IT tired

    Now I’m weak


    What has FF done tired & weak? Fight?

    Tired – bed

    Weak – eat (breakfast)


    • This is my opinion on the matter, but IT I believe to be the “quest” or “path” to the treasure.

      • “Tired” and “weak” are directly connected to WWWH (imo). If you don’t see the connection, you don’t know WWWH *imo)

        • I know water can be both tired (of running) and weak (always taking the path of least resistance). Unless you’r one of those who believe WWH doesn’t involve water

        • I’m glad I have such an “opinionated” authority admonishing me on the subject matter I try to share, but I would beware of Goofy. He doesn’t take too kindly to individuals who try to stifle EVERYONE’s ideas with his/her “opinion”(I’ve noticed that about you in the last 24 hours).

          But back on a Chase note, you might want to recheck “tired” and “weak” . It’s my opinion Forrest would not repeat the same meaning twice, therefore, one of those two words is NOT what you think it is….IMO 🙂

          • “Anyone have thoughts?” Question was asked. I answered. I specifically stated it was my opinion. You do not have to share my opinion. And it is the first time I have commented on “tired” and “weak”.

          • picassobull, I was responding to Puzzled…nothing directed at you 🙂 Was just letting him know, he shouldn’t come bursting in shouting “I know WWWH! I know WWWH! But I’m not telling you” over and over… and then start directing us all how to “properly” think through the poem, all the while, safety stamping it with “IMO”. It’s kind of like Ken explained below just a lil bit ago.

            And Puzzled, I don’t recall anyone asking a question before you chimed in telling me what I do or don’t know… unless you can point out that question you were answering.
            I get it bud, you’re excited. I remember a certain someone on here who came in just like you and people started hating on him because of his confidence and sure mindedness of what the poem meant (looks in mirror). But once he failed, and saw how stupid he must’ve looked gallivanting around with his Einstein hat on, he decided to have a little more humility when posting.

            And I was also just fore warning you to an unchained golden retriever that runs loose around here. That goofy dog has the same contempt for those type of people and will bite you if you’re not careful.

            Good luck with deciphering the rest of the poem.

          • Iron Will, and anyone interested in how I found my WWWH- picassobull asked if anyone had a thought. I quote, “on July 11, 2016 at 8:36 pm’

            “Anyone have thoughts?
            Why must I go AND leave my trove for all to seek?
            the reasons [plural] I already know:
            I’ve done IT tired
            Now I’m weak”

            I was responding to picassobull. I was not responding to you Iron Will. Sorry if my thoughts offended you. They were MY THOUGHTS. And, by the way, I am a SHE, not a HE. But that doesn’t really matter. It is still my thoughts and belief that “Tired” and “weak” are directly connected to WWWH (imo). If you don’t see the connection, you don’t know WWWH (imo) That is just what I think. I have had that thought that long before I discovered what I believe to be WWWH. I also believe that “heavy loads and water high” are related to WWWH.

            As for me suggesting in a differrent post that is is important to “Just think”, I was referring to a statement Fenn made in a recent interview. The question was asked
            “If people try hard enough,. . . that they can find the chest”
            Fenn resonded by saying,
            “Its Not a matter of trying. ITS A MATTER OF THINKING”.
            Read the poem, read the book because there’s some hints in the book
            that will help you clues in the poem. But sure. . .

            So I take Fenn’s response to mean that we need to THINK to determine WWWH. I was previously going about it by studying the map of 4 states and trying to see how the names of places or the geography of places might indicate WWWH. But, then I put away my maps and just spent some time THINKING.

            (Note to Iron Will) You are more than welcome to come up with WWWH any way you wish. If you want to “THINK”, that is fine with me. If you don’t want to think, its fine too. But if you want me to tell you, which you suggested by your statement, “I know WWWH! But I’m not telling you”, I’m not going to tell you. I am more than willing to share the way I arrived at WWWH and I thought it might help some people. If it helps you fine, and if not fine too. Some people might find it helpful to take the steps I did in arriving at WWWH.

            So here is my thought process for those who are interested.
            A couple of things stuck out to me in the book TTOTC. The first time I read The Totem Pole Caper, a few things caught my eye. The manager of Cafe was named Frosty. I took note of the name right away but didn’t realize until I discovered what I believe to be WWWH that this entire story is describing something else. I think it is describing WWWH.

            Note that grandma took FF into the meat locker to speak to him when Frosty was mad. Sounds wierd I know. But, I really think this entire episode is describing WWWH and I believe it halts in two ways at the same location on the map. I didn’t know until I discovered what I believe is WWWH that this chapter was describing it.

            I also think the chapter, Looking for Lewis & Clark chapter is significant. When I first read it, I was drawn to a sentence that said, “The first afternoon we found ourselves way up on top of a beautiful mountain under lapais lazuli sky.” Forrest was riding a horse named Lightning. But, apparently lightning didn’t exactly live up to his name. Fenn said, “The inside of my legs were raw most of the way down. I found that riding behind the saddle on Lightning’s soft, furry, rump helped some but he didn’t like it much and kept doing a funny dance step that I didn’t trust completely.” Interestingly, I did not realize the real significance of this story when I first read it, but I did think it was saying more than I recognized at the time. Now that I believe I have discovered WWWH, I see (imo) that this story is also describing WWWH. This part of the story (imo) describes one way that WWH. Another part of the story describes something else significant about WWWH. I suggest focussing on pages 61-63.

            And then there is the chapter, “My War For Me”. I have to admit that I skipped this chapter when I first read the book. I’m not into war stories, although now that I have gone back and read the chapter thanks to the searchers who pointed out its significance, I am impressed with the service of Fenn and others whose service benefits us all. I kept hearing from others that this chapter was important and so I went back and read it. There is much in this chapter! Other searchers kept talking about the waterfall. So of course I wanted to look into it. pg 80 says, “A small clearing appeared at eleven o’clock on my canopy and slowly worked its way under my left wing to disappear behind. It was magical because a small waterfall in the center of the clearing dopped water so far that it turned to mist before it could even speread on the rocks below. It must have been 100 feet or more.”

            Well, I didn’t get what this paragraph was really trying to say until I focused on the waterfall. There was something unique about it and it led me to understand WWWH.

            I had felt that the three stories/chapters from TTOTC were very important. There were things that just stuck out to me but I didn’t know why exactly.
            But, then I read the advice from Fenn when he said, “its a matter of THINKING”
            So I decided to set aside the map. I had some driving to do and figured I would think about it while I drove. What exactly could “warm water” be? And what exactly was HALT referring to? I have studied these words extensively in dictionaries and the thesaurus. I knew the synonyms, definitions and how these words were used in sentences. I had all these thought bopping around in my head from the book, and a few of them came together and I realized that I have always known WWWH. That is why I believe that everyone knows where warm waters halt but they just don’t know they know. A child could definitly come up with what I believe is WWWH. It does take some imagination but it also requires logic. The hints I have outlined above were helpful to me in coming up with what I believe to be Fenn’s place that warm waters halt. I believe it to be what he was referring to when he said “show it to a child” and when he said that people will think, “why didn’t I think of that?”.

            Oops! Left out a story; the one so many people see significance in. The story about Fenn bathing in the stream and moving down to where the water was cooler. Now that I have what I believe is Fenn’s WWWH, I can see that this story also describes WWWH. Its like the situation is the same, but the place is different. (imo)

            So basically, I’m not going to tell anyone what I believe is Fenn’s WWWH. But, I gave you my thought process that helped me arrive at it. While I saw importance in certain words used in the stories I have mentioned from TTOTC, I did not really see the significance until I discovered what I believe is WWWH. That is when I saw that the stories had a double meaning; or at least I believe they do. I would never have believed it if someone told me this before I discovered what I believe is Fenn’s WWWH. But, now that I believe I know the answer, I can see so much more in the stories.

            I honestly hope that someone else will come up with WWWH from my notes here. If you get it, I would love to hear from you.

            – Puzzled

          • Iron Will- I was never assuming those two words, “tired” and “weak” had the same meaning.

          • Oh ok… sorry didn’t know you were female.

            As for your WWWH… I have no need to understand what you THINK it’s possibility is. That is another one of those things you THINK you figured out but did not. I simply stated that you came to the blogs recently shouting to the rooftops, “look at me, I’ve figured out WWWH, but I’m not telling” repeatedly, and then started butting into people’s ideas and thoughts, telling them how they should be THINKING based on your self proclamation of “divine” correctness. I was simply warning you that authorities here do not like when searchers do that, but apparently you THINK it was some self centered attempt to “divine” the location of your WWWH, but you’re grossly incorrect. See what I did there with that dual meaning? Don’t TRY to see it… THINK about seeing it.

            BTW… your response to Piccaso was in a direct reply to me if you look. Perhaps next time you could THINK of a better “reply” button to choose….imo ofcourse.

          • My response was ONLY to Picassobull. I believe I have the correct WWWH. I am willing to share how I arrived at this idea and hope it benefits someone. If it doesnt’ benefit you, that is fine. I do hope your stormy day brightens up a bit.

        • Puzzled, I think you’re reading too much into my response. Many people have stated that WWH doesn’t involve water. I wasn’t judging; rather I was curious about your comment.

          Until someone has real proof, we are all voicing opinions. Unless you are breaking Dal’s rules, you opinion is as valid as anyone’s. I truly admire the people here who willingly discuss their thoughts.

          Sorry if I offended (if I did, it was unintentional).


          • Hey picassobull,
            did Puzzeled wwwh deal with water? I personally think that wwwh and the blaze and the hob are all in common with each other. What that means is if the people are saying it doesn’t deal with water then it must deal with a location that would pertain to a completed solve. I have a solve completed but I have to check it out later this summer before I can talk about it. I will tell you this, the poem is all you need to solve it. everything that you will need is in the poem, only the poem. Forrest didn’t come out and say it but people here have torn his poem apart and made it so much more difficult than it needs to be. I can say that as now I see what the poem offers and it is everything that is needed. I won’t even tell F until I go there myself. Do you think a 10 year old child would be able to come up with some of these out of the universe solves? NO! That child will read the poem and understand what she or he needs to do. Have you ever heard of that show, Are YOU Smarter Than A 5th Grader?

            Be safe and smart on your journeys

          • Picassobull- you didn’t offend. No worries!
            I tried to answer your question. I will be more specific. Yes, I believe WWWH involves water. But, when I locate it on the map, it only indirectly involves water.

  57. Could volcanic tuff be “no place for the meek”? As in tough being the opposite of meek? Or is this a stretch? Now that I have my WWWH, I need to confirm HOB. Thought I had identified it. If I have it right, it isn’t a house or related in any way to someone named Brown. It seems like a good fit and at this place is “volcanic tuff” which immediately caught my eye and I wondered if it was “no place for the meek”. Any opinions on this?

    • If you rate your solves for each clue, say 1-10, I’d give your “tuff” a 3.
      But, what you would have to do is rate all your other clue solves too. A rating of 8-10 on all the others would bump this one up considerably.
      If you follow my system, anyways.

      The point being, you have a defined solve. It doesn’t appear real strong. But it’s better than just nothing, and worth keeping for consideration.

      Just my opinion.
      Good luck.

      • Thanks Buckeye Bob. I kinda thought it was a stretch. I have a better “no place for the meek”. Just wanted a second opinion.

    • Puzzled, I don’t know about HOB like Buckeye Bob, but I like Tuff or lava flows for the ending of the poem. Not for sure but it is interesting.
      Lava was named by the Neapolitians who lived in vicinity of Mt. Vesuvius and Pompeii. Lava meaning to them is ” a stream caused by sudden rain”. They applied the word to the molten rock coming down the side of Vesuvius. Now think what is the definition of a creek, a stream. Now one without the use of paddle. Possibly lava.
      Now remember Forrest says in the preface of TFTW and one of the last stories, I think he is talking about the end. Searching through the volcanic ash or cinders in Pompeii. Those areas exist around Yellowstone. I also believe the end of the poem is like a pile or swell of rocks, possibly molten rocks. Look up root word of blaze, it means to swell or blow up.

      Tuff and volcanic activity is interesting??
      Hope this helps ya puzzled.

      • Thanks for your reply DPT. I agree that “the end of the poem is like a pile or swell of rocks”. The reason I believe this is because the word Tarry could refer to terry.

        • Puzzled, also look at the story banco. Banco means a bench or seat. Where the wise sit. Also a river Bank. Like a sedan:-)
          Also look what is behind his Dad on the picture to the left- a pile of rocks. And in the War for me story Forrest posted on Dals site he has a difference in the story. He said as the rescuers appeared he waved his arms like a windmill while standing near a pile of rocks. To wave arms like a windmill is to flail. And arm of a windmill is called a whip.
          A pile of rocks. A pile of Mother Earth. hmmm

          Hope these help puzzled

  58. Given the wide variety of poem interpretations, if and when the clues are ever deciphered, most people are going to be disappointed. None more so than those egotists who are so sure of themselves … especially those who clamor some rubbish to the effect …”I figured out FF’s clues and wow what a genius he is”. Translation: “I have solved his puzzle; look at me; I’m such a genius”.

    There are so many of those type comments it makes me not want to come to this site at all! Is there no moderation at this blog?


    • Yes Ken, they due monitor pretty well. You just have to get use to it I guess. Most everyone is reading the poem incorrectly anyway, let them feel smart. The fun in coming to the blog is deciphering all the B.S. and conversing with those that are actually trying to help each other with some deep thought. And of course, the awesome people.:)

      Anyway, everyone knows that I am the only one with the perfect solve, and I’m not too bright…

        • “At the source of the longest river
          The voice of the hidden waterfall”
          Hahahaha, “hidden”
          I’ll bet Forrest flew over this cuckoos nest a few times.
          Nice to see you James.

      • Charlie and Ken, Yup – everyone has the correct solve and that is why we are all still here. The saying, ‘It is not over until the fat lady sings’ applies – ‘It is not over until the solve and chest are found (probably by pictures)’ Until then, it appears there are tons of correct solves. There is a ‘rules’ section on the blog. And of course, I have the correct solve, toooooo.

  59. Here is an Odd connection to the poem I just have thought to. Recently, for Fennboree III, a new map was printed along with the poem. I was going over “Just take the chest…” I looked up the definition of just. That led me to wonder if we are being drawn to the word just through this latest map. The maps alignment, as I recall, have been centered. This latest map is left justified. JUSTified. One definition of “just” is “right.” Could this equate to a directional instruction given us be f in the poem?
    I usually keep a find like this to myself, but to what end would keeping all of my thoughts to myself lead to. Just makes sense to me.

    • … And now, over an hour has passed and I just saw and read Jason’s Ant’s And Syn’s Post. Hmmm… He mentions “just” as well. Hmmm…

    • Hey Slurbs
      This caught my attention. Where can I get one of the new maps and how much different is it from the one in TFTW?

  60. The very charming Amy, who we got to meet at Fennboree, was in the 1st group of evacuations from the fire here in Colorado. Amy & her family have a place to stay; and they are doing o.k. Amy’s home is still safe. Last I heard: the fire is still 0% contained, but the firefighters are making progress & the fire might be contained today. When Amy evacuated her home, she took her dogs, her jewelry, her photos, and her Thrill of the Chase research material!

    • Amy
      Thank God you and everyone is safe. I’m glad to see that I’m not the only one that put there TTOTC documentations in a place to take with the dog..I love my Boston Terrier and my TTOTC material so they share the same place. My wife thinks I’ve lost it.
      Be safe. That means everything first..
      Timothy A.

    • Hello Golden Retrievers. Which fire has Amy had to evacuate? There are several that are going on here in Colorado. Hoping everything will be okay for Amy and her family and all those being affected by the wildfires. I had to smile after reading she grabbed her Thrill of the Chase research material. Please keep us informed when possible, please.

      • I’m not sure if she wants everyone to know where she lives. Next time I talk with her, I’ll ask her if I can disclose “which fire” on this blog. I only disclose information that she says is o.k. I’ll tell her: many of you are sending good thoughts her way. And I’ll keep you informed.

      • Thanks so much! We just got word they will let us in for two hours tomorrow to check on our houses. Unfortunately some houses were lost so thoughts out to them. One was a firefighter working on the fire. After he couldnt save his house he moved to save his nieghbors. His dog is now missing so thoughts for him especially. Amazing people. And yes, i grabbed my bag full of chase research, i figured i could find the chest and rebuild my house. 🙂 Hopefully it wont come to that!

        Just a quick shoutout to those i got to meet and get to know at fennboree as well as old friends….you are all awesome!!!!! If i were more of a blogger i would speak your praise, i had such a wonderful time! You all have me worried about needing to find the chest before you do. 😉 If my house makes it through this fire and i get back to my research you all better watch out 😉

        Golden Retievers has been super sweet and offered her house as shelter for me AND my (now) three dogs. In times like these it is difficult not to feel the love and be grateful that humanity has this side. For those of you unsure…she was the one who brought that wonderful mini-library with books AND chairs. What a sweetheart!!! 🙂

        So, even though i dont post much, i am often thinking of my wonderful chase friends and am very grateful to have met you. 🙂 An awesome group with amazing stories and hearts of gold.

        Thinking of you all!
        Amy 🙂

  61. Hi fellow searchers, I was wandering if anybody has been to the Church in the desert in Chama River canyon. I am trying to find parking areas in my solves, where FF could have parked. Can you drive/park past the sanctuary? I was also curious about the parking at the north part below the reservoir, there is some kind of lodge there you can park at maybe? Thanks, I would be happy to answer any questions you have about Colorado as I know it well!

    • Hi Finder. No, I do not believe you (the public) can park past the monastery. The monastery is where the road ends in a box canyon. There are a few trails that continue on, however.

      I can’t answer the 2nd part of your question.

    • Hi Finder. Google Benedictine Abbey of Christ in the Desert. The satellite map that comes up will show you FR151. I believe public access beyond the abbey is closed to the public, at least that has been my experience in the past. However, that doesn’t preclude FF from having gotten in. The canyon continues up a little ways..not truly a box, other than access is denied and it narrows down in there.

  62. Yes E*, continuing our discussion on “below the home of Brown”…
    The holy grail of solves would be to nail down locations (below the cross) which are habitat for keystone species like Brown Bears, Beavers, and Elk; then tie in historic homes with Brown – in the name; then tie in Native American culture; throw in some old bones and arrowheads below the foundational Browns; and then go fishing! Ha! I know just the places. Yes, they are in the wood, in a poetic sort of way. That’s my ‘in the box mentality’ coyly sporting rose colored glasses.

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