The Key Word…Part Two


This page is now closed to additional comments. To continue the discussion please go to the current Key Word page.

“Many have given serious thought to the clues in the poem but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key.”

The above is a quote from Forrest. This page is where we can discuss what that key word might be.




629 thoughts on “The Key Word…Part Two

    • Puzzled – It’s a good thing that Dal happened to create a new thread,…before anyone found my post and read that Gallatin River link,…right? The one about “volcanic duff”.

      So sedimentary rock is “tuff” and volcanic rock is “duff” per this link,…right??? I am confused:

      And I have to post that link again,…because it has a MAJOR CLUE to my “A River Runs Through It – Gallatin River Solve”,…and my key word for that solve being “keep”.


      • Puzzled – OK,…”Key” Word as “Keep” (pronounced Kee-p or Key-p,…get it?) and a “tight focus” on “Keep”:

        Part One:

        I have another link here,…but the one I posted about the Gallatin River in the previous Key Word thread mentioned that THIS picture is where the final scene of “A River Runs Through It” was filmed (look @ 1:56 in the video):

        That blaze is Storm Castle Peak,…and every castle to be stormed in medieval times has a “Keep”,…where the rich castle owner hid out. It doesn’t face any direction either,…because it is basically an all-around blaze.

          • Puzzled – You’re most welcome. 🙂

            If you need specific directions from Hwy 191 to that pretty spot from “A River Runs Through It” in the last picture I posted,…let me know. I have those saved on my email:

            “Eventually, all things merge into one, and a river runs through it. The river was cut by the world’s great flood and runs over rocks from the basement of time. On some of the rocks are timeless raindrops. Under the rocks are the words, and some of the words are theirs.
            I am haunted by waters.”

            ― Norman Maclean, A River Runs Through It and Other Stories


        • E*

          Nice to see another finally state the meaning of ‘keep’. Interprets as ‘hides’ to the meaning of the line. Get all of line 3 interpreted properly for a big surprise.

          Clue # 1.

          But that’s just me I guess. I’m all alone, just hiding in the poem, and hinting as well.

          • samsmith and puzzled – Since I think BOTH of you are referring to the “secret” Key Word,…I will now mention my next solve:

            Grizzly Restaurant is the home of Brown!

            If you head North on Hwy 287 from the Hebgen Dam area,…you will eventually reach the Grizzly Restaurant on your left.

            Just beyond,…you make a left turn and go across the historic Hutchins Bridge and the Old Kirby Place to get to the West Fork Cabin Camp (where I think ff’s Dad had a trailer):


            “From there it’s no place for the meek”

            Because the Grizzes live ALL AROUND that camp,…up in them thar hills!

            Here’s MY “secret where” for that solve:


            A young man who cooks for the Grizzly Bar and Grill told me that Osborne Russell’s battle with the Blackfeet (one of them) was about 3 miles up that FS 237 road. And “Flywater” had a nice picture of the Madison’s West Fork in it.

          • E* – And if Grizzes don’t convince you as a viable hoB,…then how about something that MAY just be around in 1000 years (if the glaciers don’t all melt first!):


            “I took this photo with my phone a couple of days ago. Cabin Creek flows into the Madison just below Hebgen Dam. Both Cabin and Beaver Creeks are flowing like this. Unreal. The snow is coming out of the mountains and will be for some time now. This mud will take a few days to blow out Quake Lake and once that happens, the Madison below Quake will blow out as well. The West Fork is dumping in color too.”

            As I’ve said before,…to a fly fisherman,…that’s:

            Brown with a capital “B”!

            And sorry, Forrest,…they’re restoring the native Westslope Cutthroat trout habitat up in those hills,…so maybe no Rainbow trout THERE either!:


        • Great links E*! Thanks for sharing. I had not considered “key- p”. Something new to think about. I will read some more about Storm Castle Peak. Sounds interesting. Thanks for all this new info.

      • I cling to the hope the treasure is in New Mexico. His home state is NM and it seems to me that he could make a day trip to hide the booty and make it back in time for dinner. Had he driven all over the rockies I would think his wife might
        notice….It also occurs to me that this is a selfish thought as trying to comb four states would probably make my head explode 🙂

        • Robert Miller – I remember reading that Forrest’s wife, Peggy,…likes to stay in hotels while Forrest likes to rough it,…so they sometimes took separate vacations. This is a good article also:

          “Then, sometime around 2010, Fenn did it. Without even telling his wife, Peggy, he slipped out and squirreled away his chest — to which he’d added a miniature autobiography, sealed with wax in an olive jar — somewhere in the wilds of the Rockies. It took him two trips from his car to get all of the treasure to the hiding spot, because it weighed 42 pounds and he was in the neighborhood of his 80th birthday by then. For a while, Fenn kept what he’d done secret. His own daughters didn’t find out about it until he self-published his memoir, The Thrill of the Chase, complete with the poem he’d spent years refining.”

      • E* there aren’t many rivers as lively as the Gallatin, and I love the movie. Have to say that it bothers me when Redford calls it the Big Blackfoot. (I was raised on both rivers; not at all alike.

        Have you heard if all the human waste has passed thru after the Yellowstone club effluent fiasco? Guessing upstream near Ousel could be a mess this year.

        • Puzzled – How to we solve The Poem if all the resources we look at in our research are different??? I guess that’s the bane of internet searching for us!

  1. I reckon I am here to take a dive in my Brown SUBMARINE and take it in the canyon down to get in focus with the word that is key..

  2. Perhaps all of the clues simply describe the canyon trail taken as in reaffirming that the explorer is on the right track… not traveling towards a waterfall or moving beyond large lode stones. Simply stopping at the end of the trail taken? Maybe canyon is literal in a name as well that would allow any child who could read to find the key or starting point?

  3. The key word is Old
    Zoe Fenn Old
    4 grandchildren with the last name Old
    They own a tree farm in Pecos NM.
    and also oldsantafetradingpost his web page

  4. T-igh-t focus.
    N-igh; is the word for me.
    For my solve, this word is in the line I think is the 5th clue.
    You can count it up to 5 & back from blaze to 5.
    Puts it right in the middle of the clues in the poem & right in the middle of the geographical area of the clues.
    Just my opinion.

  5. a word, that is KEY. replace key with any other word, what would you think the word is? A word that is lake, tree, trail, camp, etc… The word would be that word. No difference here. The word that is key is key. The key is Forrest Fenn. “A little of me is also inside the box”, he’s referring to the key.

  6. I feel it might be down. As in take it in the canyon down. Old English, down means dune, or sand dune.

  7. Or wise perhaps. Representing the owl. The letter m represents Minerva , or the owl of Minerva. If I’m the field and you find the letter m, or 13 (m being the 13th letter of the alphabet) could mean your close to a treasure cache. Look at the coors light beer can. At the bottom you see the mountain symbol that also looks like an m with a line at the bottom. If you turn it 90 degrees it becomes the number 13 or also the letter b (which represents the bell). Maybe this could even be the blaze. Remember the asphalt art he talked about. You can see the symbol on the can in the picture Forrest added.

    • For what its worth and having something to do with your Key word I have “13” from reading the link below:

      Single fish and three others (could be 131 if you count and “a” nice brown)

      – But JB does, only he won’t tell me, thinking that since I can’t remember, he’ll keep that knowlege for his very own personal use. He didn’t catch a “single” fish that day and probably was put off that I skunked him with “three” others about the same size, and a nice brown. My parens
      pg 13 Making plans is antagonistic to freedom
      pg 131 Indecision is the “key” flexibility or Hwy 131 in Colorado for those searching in that area.

      May reinforce a solve out there. Is “indecision” a word that is KEY?

    • Tony…, the letter “b” is part of the blaze. Has to be lazy though, looks like a 9. And yes, there is an owl at the blaze.

  8. I am amazed at how many different Key Words emerged. We all truly do look at the world through our own eyes and experiences.

    Good luck to ALL searchers, and TRY to STAY SAFE


    • Hey JD, I am wondering how your search went this last weekend. I believe we are searching the same area and I have had a few BOTG experiences I would like to discuss with you. Hopefully we can narrow this thing down. Reach out if you’d like,

          • JD – Welcome back! I was trying to find you while you were gone,…using your Key Word: Brown trout. This resulted in a new Wyoming solve for me, called:

            “Ask a Fly Fisherman Where hoB Might Be”

            I mentioned I met some traveling fly fishermen brothers here,…who caught a Big Brown in Hebgen Lake. When I asked where they caught the biggest Browns and Rainbows ever,…they said to head to the Bighorn River,…below the Yellowtail Dam. This is my new theory for where ff caught that HUGE Rainbow in his Scrapbook 124 (do I win, Dal???):



          • E*

            My key Word was “Wood” – Actually “The Wood”, and not Brown Trout, but my hoB does involve Brown trout.

            Sorry, no hints. Paraphrasing Forrest, “If I told you where hoB was you would go right to the treasure.”… or something close to that.

            That is one clue I will NOT be giving out.

            Glad to be back, I missed you guys.

            Good luck to all and TRY to STAY SAFE


          • JD – Here is the topo map to get to the Medicine Wheel:


            I think Forrest and Peggy went to a Sun Dance in the Crow Reservation country somewhere in the Big Horns (see also: J.H. Sharp),…and of course there is the Custer Battle Site at Little Big Horn (ff preferring the Indians’ side perspective):

            If you or other searchers are interested,…this is a great book:


          • JD – Oh,…that’s right,…your Key Word:

            “The Wood”

            But if ff was in a wooden drift boat,…he would be “in the wood”,…right???

          • JD – But a Crow Indian traveling the same route (through Crow country),…would be in a canoe,…and would then be:

            “”If you are brave and in the wood”

            IMO. 🙂

            p.s. I think ff likes canoes,…he said something about taking one around Hebgen Lake to go fly fishing at all of his favorite spots.

          • Very strange E*,
            It is not 65 miles around Hebgen Lake even if you hug the shoreline.
            I think I know why he said 65 miles.
            Funny, I never paid any attention to that statement probably because all I have is 2 cents.

          • E*

            “If you are brave and in the wood…”

            to me does relate to an Indian, just not a Crow Indian…who is in the wood.

            Keep diggin’ E*, one never knows what will be found in the next shovel full. Could be buffalo chips, could be gold.

            Take care and TRY to STAY SAFE.


          • E*: golden treasure to be sure! Just apparently not of the metallic variety. 🙂

          • zaphod73491 – O contraire:

            Just North of that image on the Big Wood River is a dirt road that leads to the Boulder City trail head,…where treasures of “the metallic variety” were mined in large quantities:


            I backpacked one August and spent the night up there with a friend in August,…it was “worth the cold”. 🙂

            And if the landscape surrounding Hwy 75 in the Sawtooth National Recreation Area is looking familiar to you or anyone else,…Clint Eastwood (who has a house here) used that area North of town here to film “Pale Rider”:


            Them thar hills are mine now…

          • Hi E*. That Pale Rider reference reminds me of the hoot we gals had admitting our Crush-on-Clint at Friday night’s Fennborree fest. HA!

          • Thanks E* & loco,
            My measurement must be wrong.
            How could Wiki & be wrong?
            OK, I think they are both based on an average during a certain season.
            As far as I can see this number changes over time & think it is way off.

          • Forrest stated edge not shoreline.
            there is a difference & the larger the lake the more deviation there is from the actual shoeshine.

            shoreline (coastline)
            The intersection of the land with the water surface. The shoreline shown on charts represents the line of contact between the land and a selected water elevation. In areas affected by tidal fluctuations, this line of contact is the mean high water line. In confined coastal waters of diminished tidal influence, the mean water level line may be used. The shoreline is defined as MHW. (NOS CO-OPS 1 2000)

            Would not be 65 miles, much less. Where is the edge anyway?
            10′, 20′, 30′, 50′ from shoreline.
            Now do the math & see what you get in the water on the edge whatever that is.

          • Jake – From Seeker’s post,…with quoted from ff:

            ““There are nine clues in the poem, but if you read the book (TTOTC), there are a couple…there are a couple of good hints and there are a couple of aberrations that live out on the edge.”

            Maybe this is an ff aberration?

          • Let me get to the point E*,
            I think “Not far, but too far to walk” is right around 65 miles where you will need other forms of transportation besides your feet.

          • Jake – Maybe that Montana waterways law applies here,…only to the BEACH in front of a private property,…where ff could “put in” with his canoe (going from the waterline to the shoreline)?:


            Here is a historic home that I found in April 2013,…that had a “John Trout” Rainbow painting on the side of the outhouse mentioned:


            There used to be a much more detailed link from the National Historic Register,…with all kinds of pictures (like the one with the outhouse),…and historic Hegben Lake info. and the application from the owners to join the register. It’s gone now.

            And remember: “No need to dig up the old outhouses, the treasure is not associated with any structure.”

            He gave that clue shortly after I emailed him that Lonesomehurst Cabin info…. 🙂

          • E*,
            I don’t see that as a hint.
            I’m having a difficult time following you.
            You throw so much stuff out there, I get the feeling of being smothered.
            Maybe you should get another post going & send it to Dal so he can post it & maybe then I might get it.
            I know, I’m guilty of fragmenting myself.

          • Jake – One of the things mentioned on that Lonesomehurst Cabin register application was how the shoreline there changed during the 1959 quake. But that site is hidden or gone now. But here’s the info:


            “When the lake quieted, it became apparent that the northerly tilt of the
            Hebgen Lake block had displaced the lake northward. The north shore
            was flooded; jetties, docks, and beaches were submerged (p. 18). By
            contrast, the south shore emerged, so that stranded boats and docks were
            common sights and immense areas of bay and lake bottom were exposed.”

          • Yes E*,
            I read some of that document a few months ago as well as many others because I thought he hid the treasure somewhere around Hebgen Lake, North, South, East & West.
            Could never get a full solve without some ? marks.

          • Jake – From the Lonesomehurst Cabin link and the map I provided:

            “The outhouse is 4 by 5 feet (1.2 m × 1.5 m), plank board walls, rolled roofing, and has no foundation. It is northwest of the cabin. The boathouse is 13 by 23 feet (4.0 m × 7.0 m) is also northwest of the cabin. It has a concrete foundation and walls of concrete and flat sawn logs.”

            I figured ff could reach the outhouse and boathouse from the shore,…without going too far onto the property,..which would make him:

            “brave and in the wood”

            But shortly thereafter (March 27, 2013),…he announced this quote on the Today Show:

            “No need to dig up the old outhouses, the treasure is not associated with any structure.”

            I am saying that is why I had to GIVE UP that as Forrest’s:

            “The end of my rainbow and the treasure”

            Because of the “John Trout” painting on the historic outhouse.

    • Fundamentaldesign- You said you like keyword Pie. I have an interesting belief about why “pie” is mentioned so many times in TTOTC. I think it’s important for two reasons. I often use an online Etymology Dictionary to understand the words in the poem. This type of dictionary looks at the history behind our words. It looks at “PIE”, or Proto-Indo-European history of the word. PIE is “the hypothetical reconstructed ancestral language of the Indo-European Language; earliest use of a word and it’s history. I think the mention of “pie” in TTOTC has several ideas behind it and one of them is suggestive of PIE, or the history of our language. Clearly language in the poem is intended to direct our quest I think PIE is essential in understanding the words in the poem.

      • Interesting. I will think deeply about pie. It could also be that pie was very desirable and a popular thing to eat, before mass factory made deserts hit the market. I remember my father talking about Aunt Tilly’s pies like it was the best on the planet! She taught me how to make them. I could never do it as good as her!

        • Perhaps Pie is a hint of what a farmers field looks like when graded from a satellite view using Google Earth. Never read the book too see how the word Pie is used but this came to mind reading your post. If one was to look at satellite imagery of some farmers fields, you sure see a whole lot of pie shapes and forms that look like the definition of Blaze…..just some thought I had.

          • I have even seen some farmer fields graded to purposefully look like the Peace Sign and many other geometric forms. Not too far from the area discussed are such forms in abundance.

  9. IF I had to guess…in a word yes. However… i+F looks more like a key shape iF and if you use your imagination the JF “brand” looks like an iF with a hook on the i/J.

    Maybe the fan shape above the brand is a key hole? Some have said it looks like rotor blades…

  10. Forrest says “few”. Few means little, such as 2 or 3. If there are approximately 50,000 searchers then 2 or 3 is definitely few.

    My key word is GO. Not the go that everyone knows it as, to leave. Remember Forrest wants you to find a different meaning to a word that everyone thinks they know. Such as a butterfly is a flutterby.

    I believe GO is really not what we all think it is. Like training your mind to understand what you think you know, smarter every day. I am inside the Box. And I hope I am one of the few who are in tight focus. It certainly is tight in this sedan.

  11. No other place to post it so: There is ANOTHER post from Forrest on MW.

    Just thought you guys would want to know


  12. Because of ‘focus’ the keyword must be eye, or I, or maybe me. Now if I can only find the lock, I can insert the key and maybe end up where I’m going.

    • Yes I’d like to be where I’m going also in a few days. I have a key that needs a lock. I think it has something to do about ff’s thumb covering Philly.

      • It took me a while, but I think I finally understand what the thumb covering Philadelphia has to do with this poem. I didn’t know until I think I figured out WWWH.

  13. OFF TOPIC-

    Some of you have asked about the disappearance of the Odds n Ends page. It was being used by many to post comments about everything including comments that should have been left on more appropriate discussion pages. Odds n ends was intended for comments about TTOTC topics that were not covered by other discussion pages and not as a place to comment about everything.

    This blog is organized by topic so that folks looking for specific information about a topic, such as “tarry scant” or “in the wood” or “Jenny Kiles questions blog” or the Key word or what is meant by “it” in the poem could find relevant discussion about those topics.

    When commenters use one page of the blog for constant off topic conversation it makes it practically impossible for someone to find the information they are searching for.

    So please look around in the discussion pages and see where your comment best fits. Please abide by the rules of this blog.

    Goofy and I will be watching for comments not posted in the correct place. We will suggest you move them to where they belong and/or if we catch them in time we may simply remove them completely.

    Your support on this “organizational concern” will help others find the discussion they are looking for.

    • Dal, I’m wondering if specific topic pages can have the most recent posts to that page only shown? That would make things MUCH easier to keep up with.

      • Wouldn’t that make it difficult to go back and check something you read previously….say like a year later. I love the way Dal keeps the comments so you are able to go back and check when you have a new thought in another direction.

        • How do you go back and check something from that long ago?
          I would have to dig through the entire page(s) related to that subject looking for it.

          My suggestion wouldn’t change that at all, but it would make it easier to see recent ‘replies’ that otherwise go off the “most recent comments” list due to being mingled in with all the other comments from other subject pages.

  14. JD,
    You suggested the word BOX earlier:
    “pg 125 f says “And when my tackle box is closed at last and the caddies hatch is gone, I will rest through all of time and space….”

    Is tackle “box” a term fly fishermen use? I am not a fly fishermen but I googled it and went to fly fishing stores and didn’t see that “tackle” was used. If this is not an appropriate term, then Box may be a word that is Key. Terms “Fly Boxes” “Reel Cases” but not tackle box which seems appropriate for all other types of fishing.
    Maybe I am fishing up the wrong creek
 but this has been on my list of possible words.

    • Box – made of wood?


      Near a farm with honey bees and oxen (plow) or cows? Do people still use oxen? In TFTW F has pic of oxen near SF trail?

    • Yes, a “Tackle Box” is a term used by fishermen. A box often used for line, leader,lures, and of course “Flies”


  15. A Key word,
    may not be a word in the poem
    tight focus = confidence.
    ( confidence is the key word )
    I think forrest was confident enough
    to walk alone.
    this is only my opinion.


  16. “It” begs for tight focus. Is “it” YNP, the Madison, the blaze, or simply the walk to the TC?

  17. OK , will give my 2 bits here. I have only been at this for a week from my arm chair . I just follow my intuition as a guide to lead my research- I just let it lead flow. I have read numerous insights from people on this site and read a little bit about the person, Forrest Fenn and certain things stick out that I kid of zoomed it on.

    OK, topic is key word here:

    Everyone is focused on home of Brown (HOB) , the only capitalized word other than the start of a line in the poem. Therefore, my key word is BROWN. I will narrate this as if I think I know what I am talking about..haha..OK?

    Brown is John George (Kootenai) Brown. A person can Google him and find a very rich history about the man. He was the first forest ranger for Waterton Lakes – Montana and Canada . He successfully lobbied the Government to make the Waterton Lakes a protected National Preserve. It is/was the FIRST designated International Peace Park!! He did have many Cabins in the Wateron Lakes but the only location of one I could find was right in the middle of the Canadian and US border line of the Upper and Lower (Canada/US) lake. Kootenai Brown is buried on the Canadian side of Waterton. There is a village in his name at Pincher Creek, which is not far from Waterton. Ok, so read up on him.

    Now another point to influence me. There is a movie about Kootenai Brown and it is called Showdown at Williams Creek. A true story about him and a fellow having an argument and the guy challenged Brown to a gunfight and Brown agreed. The went outside to Draw! Brown won. Brown was arrested for murder and he tried to kill himself while in his cell before trial but he failed to. He was acquitted of murder and was a freed man. Brown was also in the military during the Indian wars and also a mail man with the Pony Express. Native Chief Sitting Bull captured him and he escaped before Sitting Bull could kill him. Forrest Fenn has Sitting Bull’s Peace Pipe does he not? I have more strong eludes to this area if you all here would like for me to continue. I’ll end here for now because it is a long read already. The only way that Forrest would have been able to as he said he did ( 2 trips from his car, did this in one afternoon, not far but too far to walk, go where an 80 year old man can, elevations ect) He had to drive across the border into Canada ( you can’t have a criminal record to do this by the way) first then go down Waterton to the US side!! I have a couple more strong clues to add. One more of my clues will be at first be thought of as absurd but then AHA! I will add more if the responses would like me to.

    Good nigh,


    • Thank you Shane. I have studied the area and the man. Your key word being Brown, HOB can be his his burial location imo 49.084605° -113.851107°

      • Thank you for the response. Another though I have about HOB as it came to my awareness as a potential Key word. That key word maybe is the word home. Forrest had said ,” not associated with any structure”. To me that is a huge clue and Forrest was really saying something here. When you meet someone new on your travels , as an example, and they ask you ,’ where is home for you’?. We usually say the country, state, province,city and or town. We don’t give out our address! A quote from Kootenai Brown – Brown first saw Waterton in 1865 after travelling over the South Kootenay Pass. At that time, he vowed he would return to this place of scenic spendour, “for this is what I have seen in my dreams, this is the country for me.”

        “home” is not capitalized, therefore it is not a structure! So, in all reality , to me the actual key word is HOME. Its a place-not a structure with leads to the starting point which is pertaining to Brown.

  18. OOps! Poor editing on my part. Where I said ,” that I kid of zoomed it on.” I actually meant ,’ that I kind of zoomed in on”.

  19. Here to help in your interpretations…Don’t go away from what Forrest is or does…he is an archaeologist/art collector. Re-think your Brown interpretation & that will put you on track!

      • Sorry Shane I stepped away. Yes I am discussing with you. I don’t think home of the Brown has anything to do with trout. And everyone is stuck on that! I don’t want to break any rules and I am in to helping others. I think I have a grip on that clue. By Brown being capitalized it is a person, place, or thing.

        • A noun is a person, place, thing or idea. A capitalized noun is a particular person, place, or thing. But then again, ff does not seem to conform to rules 🙂 IMO

          • crowfeast – I have mentioned that ff as a fly fisherman and a poet might have capitalized to emphasize. Spring runoff or post-lightning storm “water high”,…rushing down “your creek” as “home of Brown”,…may just be ff’s:

            Brown with a capital “B”!

            Here’s some good info.:


            “Some great 19th-century poets had a habit of capitalizing abstract and personified nouns such as Nature and Love, but that doesn’t make it a good idea in general.”

          • You are correct Crow. The capitalization of Brown is a trick. He has a purpose for doing it that way. It has gotten more mileage than Carter’s got little pills.

            Sorry, don’t know if you’re old enough to remember the old TV ads for Carter’s Little Liver Pills. Long time ago.

        • I agree with you, Jon. If the home of Brown had anything to do with trout or bears or any other animal where “brown” is descriptive of the color, Forrest probably wouldn’t have capitalized it. But I also doubt that it refers to a specific person since that would require special knowledge not found in the poem. Since Forrest has said the only resources you need are the poem and a good map, if Brown is indeed a specific person, then he or she must be named on the map.

          It seems unlikely that Brown is the “word that is key” that Forrest is talking about, since he says only a few people are in tight focus on it. Being the only capitalized word in the poem (not beginning a line), I’d say hardly anyone has NOT been fixated on that word at one time or another.

          • Zap – I disagree and agree. Paragraph one, I disagree, I think that hoB does have something to do with Brown trout.

            I agree that Brown is not the word that is key, or the key word.

            Just my opinions. Good luck in your search and TRY to STAY SAFE


          • JD – If you have the TTOTC book,…is that picture of trout laying in a circle from when ff fished with his on Hebgen Lake of Brown trout? Does it say?

            I am hypothesizing that “below the hoB” could be below Hebgen Lake in the Madison between-the-lakes area.

          • I’m curious E, what page would that be?
            I don’t see any fish laying in a circle.

          • E*

            If you are referirng to the double-page of pictures, I do not see a group of fish in a circle, but the center picture has the following captions:”YELLOWSTONE PARK”
            Below that the year “1942”
            Below that, outside of a drawn box it says “HEBGEN LAKE”

            Since other pictures are labeled – Mount Haynes, Water Hole, Highway Hole and Highway Hole again, Nine Mile Hole and Watkins Creek, it does appear that Forrest is saying that this group of fish WAS caught in Habgen Lake.

            Hope that that helps.


          • JD – Here’s a link to explain why I am asking:


            “Each year, typically starting in early August, brown trout make a migration from Hebgen Lake in Montana into the Madison River of Yellowstone National Park.”

            So I think Forrest and other fly fisherman would then think of Hebgen Lake as “home of Brown”. Yes they migrate to spawn in YNP on the Madison,…but their full-time home is Hebgen Lake per this link.

          • Hi E* & JD. Just to throw a fish in the ointment….

            Hebgen may be where the Brown spawns and therefore might be considered HOB. However, maybe there’s another HOB…..

            The brown is an introduced species. In 1889, 9300 non-native trout eggs imported from Germany (from Louis Von Behr) were planted in the Nez Perce Creek. “Behr” is the root word for “brown” derived from Germanic, Old English, Russian and Sanskrit (can also mean “beaver”). So, perhaps the Nez Perce could also be considered HOB (if not the tribe, itself?)
            (some sourcing here: )

            As for the brown trout, can’t remember where I found this, but it’s in my ye olde notebook form before I got anal about citing sources: “The Brown Trout has a rather extensive distribution in the park. The fish now inhabits the Madison, Gibbon, and Firehole Rivers. In the last named it is found from its junction with the Gibbon to Keppler Cascades and is particularly numerous in Nez Perce Creek, Little Firehole River below Mystic Falls, and Iron Creek.”

          • That depends on the usage of the word home. I was born in Chicago, so that is where I am from and will always home to me. I live a Saint Louis suburb now. I reside here, but the Windy City will always be home.

            Point being, to me home is where I came from, not where I am now. Same goes for the brown trout. Home is where the were hatched and where they return to to spawn.

            As a sidebar, I do not go all the way back to Chicago for a similar reason.


            Windy City

          • Zap;

            During my research, I found examples where Brown trout was capitalized, and just as many (or more) cases where it was referred to as brown trout. Why would Forrest capitalize it? I guess that we will have to ask him that question once the treasure is located. I would suggest that he did it to bring attention to it, and give us another reason to “cuss and discuss” what it means, and why it IS capitalized.

            Just my opinion Zap


          • E*

            I think that Eaglesabound is correct. On page 9 of TFTW there IS a picture that has 7 fish arranged in a circle. On page 8 there is a picture captioned, “Dad with a trophy brown trout he caught in Hebgen Lake.” Nothing in the text indicates where these fish (in a circle) were caught.

            NOTE: brown trout NOT capitalized, BUT I still believe hoB = Brown trout.


          • JD and eaglesbound – Thank you both so much for your help! Right picture in my head with the right Brown trout as hoB at Hebgen Lake attached,…wrong book, though. But hey,…it’s been since October/November 2013 since I read them,…so please forgive me. 🙂

          • JD et al.: I guess what I am getting at is,…what if capitalizing Brown (for emphasis and/or personalization) is the case here? What if “home of Brown” is a personalized reference to fly fishing for “Brown” trout with his Dad at Hebgen Lake? Like:

            Hey Concy,…hey Dad,…let’s go fishing at the “home of Brown” today:


            “One day my dad and I were talking with Concy Wood, our special fishing buddy. Dad said, “Let’s go fish Rumbaugh Creek.” Concy smiled, and replied, “No flies on that.” (It’s an old Texas folk phrase.)”

          • melanie – Yes,…I knew about the ORIGINAL hoB for brown trout in 1890 at Nez Perce Creek ( I made that the hoB in a reverse solve I did for fun this past week from ff’s tepid WWWH bathtub in West Yellowstone to “put in” at Ojo Caliente below there. I did that because of that out-of-the-box bicycle video.

            And I did know there were browns farther up from their Madison spawning location,…because of where they were introduced. By the way,…Craig Matthews referenced in that link I provided above is my favorite fly fishing source for the Chase.

            My point here was about ff’s potential capitalization of “Brown” for personalization,…like a special, personal ode to his Dad’s coining that term in relation to fishing Hebgen Lake (which he clearly liked to do).

          • E* – think behr = brown. Or not.
            This formed much of the basis for my failed 2012 search. Just can’t shake the feeling I was in close proximity (I know, redundant phasing), just didn’t have the specific coordinates aligned….

      • The “it” in “Begin it” and “take it” refer to the same thing to me in the poem. IMO Forrest is not saying to take “it” the treasure chest in the canyon down, he’s saying “take it” as a direction from where “begin it” starts. Kinda like when I head to My search area in a month I’ll begin it on the highway and I’ll take it (the same highway) to the next turnoff.

        • Sorry just realized you wanted me to explain on another thread but this is my key word so I’ll keep “it” here.

    • jerry – Ooooohhhh,…THAT is intriguing!!!! 🙂

      I am trying to figure out if ff was really writing about ONE word only here:

      “It is interesting to know that a great number of people are out there searching. Many are giving serious thought to the clues in my poem, but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key. The treasure may be discovered sooner than I anticipated.”

      • In my case it is actually two words – “…the wood…”

        Wish I could say more, but maybe soon.

        Good luck and TRY to STAY SAFE


  20. E.C. Waters – Just before Dal closed the Key Word One Thread (it’s in the Key Word Archive now),…I posted my “Cay” as “Key” solution there. And you responded as follows:

    E.C. Waters on July 13, 2016 at 8:40 pm said:

    @E* – haven’t seen you around these parts in a good bit. Just lurking or have you completed the Fenn cycle of try, fail, try, fail, try, wtf?


    I am hardly “lurking”, E.C.,…that term is used for people who look but don’t post anything. 😉

    How are you???? And how long have you been on The Chase?

    • IMO, the word that is key leads you to the “place to start”. It is the blaze in the poem that marks the trail.

      Q: Is the Blaze one single object? “In a word – Yes”

    • Sorry Colokidd, I do not agree. For me, it was a MASTER KEY. The Keyword(s), ( or words that were key) was “the wood”. It led me to wwwh, and then through the whole poem. It truly was a MASTER KEY.

      Just my opinion.


      • I hope it does you well JD, but I can’t agree. The statement is outside the poem. If someone with only the poem to guide them was to solve, they would know nothing about this statement. You are making it sound like it’s a Rosetta stone of somekind, when it is obviously not needed, unless you actually find it in solving the poem. There is no master key… Colo is right…

        • I do not see how you can say that the statement is outside the poem. My two word key is “the wood” as in ,” if you are brave and in THE WOOD I give you title to the gold.”

          These two words were able to direct me to wwwh, and from there, I was able to solve the rest of the clues…or at least I THINK that I was able to solve the rest of the clues.

          There IS a MASTER KEY and it IS :THE WOOD”, you just have to unravel the riddle, and it then becomes pretty simple.

          I DID find it by solving the poem. I guess if I am wrong on the 23rd, I will have a lot of humble Pie to eat – but then again, I MAY have solved it.

          Just my opinion, – Good luck and TRY to STAY SAFE


          • I just don’t see where it says in the poem that “the wood” is key. I do see in the poem the 9th line from right to left say “kee me”. I would believe that is a reference to “key”, but nowhere kee/key “the wood”.

            When he stated “a little of me is also in the box”, what do you believe he is talking about? He even mentions the word “key” on that same page.

            Saying the statement was outside the poem didn’t mean you couldn’t find a key in the poem, but if he never mentioned it, would “the wood” still be some master key to solving?

            I could believe that “the wood” helped you in some way to solve the poem, but not that it is a master key like the Rosetta Stone or something.

            If we are in tight focus with a word, which is key, then we are ONE step closer.

          • I do agree with you JD of the two words though. Forrest Fenn.

            Key is hiding in plain sight. Like the rainbow thing, is everyone really looking for a reference to 42 degrees? That would be too obvious.

  21. Yoda – Where did your post here go??? I was all ready to respond to you! It said:

    “Dipthong, my word is”

    Here’s my response:

    Yoda – Many dipthongs in The Poem there are. A “wise” story “blaze” they may make….

    Are you still posting here, Yoda? I counted 24 dipthongs!!!! That’s enough to write a short story…

  22. Word that is Cay “ISLAND”
    No man is an island. Can a woman be an ‘island’?
    As I have been (gone) alone in there – a location untouched, ‘virgin’ territory.

    1st Clue: The Virgin Islands

  23. Our keyword is wood as in we will be in the woods in two weeks. Booked our first family get away to the Rockies to site see and hunt.

    • Dal, you may want to put this podcast in Media Coverage section.
      Do you think it was just a misspeak on his part. He also mentions Yosemite as a place to search, another misspeak? Maybe so., but clearly he said he buried it.

      • Correction Ritt, he stated searcher are looking in Yosemite, Not “a place to search” He also mentioned his wife didn’t know 18 month prior to him hiding the chest. This as been discussed before as well.
        Yes, in my opinion, there will be slip-ups that mean nothing at all, but 5.5 years of answering the same question over and over and over again.

        But there is something fishy about this interview.

        • To Seeker

          Yes, there is something fishy in the interview . Everyone has their ideas, solves analysis , very intelligent thoughts. Thousands have sent him emails but of course he doesn’t respond (smart man). Also, we all know he reads this blog. This particular section is about about “key” word, which is new. So, my take on this interview is this . I am going to go a bit sideways here but please be patient with my following example. Anyone here seen the Bourne movies? In the third one I think this example is in. He is in an airport and Pamela Landy sends him a message over the airport PA system saying the name of one of his many identities he has available to use but its the one he never used on the grid, yet one he would know and pick up on right away – he got the message. Now with that theme in mind, this is what I believe FF did in this interview. The one thing everyone is focusing on is he said BURIED and the host said BURIED and FF did not correct himself nor the host. FF previously said in an interview that all persons here has heard and or read is that he said, ” I never said buried”. Now he says its buried..WTH right? Coincidence not! There was also in that interview another clue. So far, no responses on what that clue is. It is something he also said before and I read that also. He is responding to someones RECENT posting or email to him. Why else would he do this interview where he has said the same things already BUT now says BURIED. A cleaver key word that will misdirect to the other clue he said in the interview. Something he said may seem non remarkable to say but its the second time I heard/read him say it. In that is a clue, a clue I heard very much so.

          You are correct to be intrigued with suspicion. There was something fishy about this interview with this avid fisherman but it has nothing to do with fish.

          Happy hunting all. As soon as I can find someone to go with me I will look where I believe to start.



        • Sorry, Seeker, You are right, I misspoke, it can happen to anyone. I meant searchers were looking in Yosemite as a place to search.

          I’m getting up in the years myself. I can see how one at Fenn’s age can slip-up One needs to revert back to the poem for answers.

    • I guess it depends on your definition of buried. There are at least 8 variations/ interpretations when I looked it up and to me that is why it doesn’t really matter. : )

  24. Like: I found my cell phone buried under some Laundry. Not buried just hidden.

  25. How about, when you get to your spot, since you would be totally positive, if you don’t see the chest, you start digging. Why the big discussion? I don’t get it. Don’t want to waste the energy? Don’t have a fold away shovel? Maybe if you are not so positive, you should not go looking…Either way, does it really matter?

  26. Without giving away their word or how it’s key, would anyone like to give an example of how a word can be a key to the poem?

    • My key word(s) is the wood. By doing some careful research, these two words led me to an area where I was then able to find my wwwh. From there, it was one step in front of the other.

      That ishow it worked for me.

      Good luck in your search and TRY to STAY SAFE


          • I guess the question is: Do you count “the”?
            It appears you do in a few statements.
            It is possible that words can mean word, when someone says:
            You have my word.

          • JD, hopefully it’s something different from the Wood River in Wyoming. While that has lots of nice tie-ins (e.g. Brown Mountain, Brown Mountain campground, Brown Creek, Canyon Creek), that location was investigated by at least one searcher 3 years ago. Not that it isn’t a big area — you could be focused on your own set of later clues.

      • I’m glad to see you had to” research” to find your spot. Some are suggesting that no research is needed claiming it’s special knowlege. IMO of course

          • You didn’t say anything about my missing “d” in the word knowledge.
            I hear ya on the research. I’ve read more books etc, the I ever did in school!
            Heck, I read the TTOTC at least 10 times!!

          • Difficult but not impossible would be a chest thrown down a mile deep mine shaft. Now that might stand the test of time. (And no, I do not believe that is the case).

    • What if some poeple have locked onto a specific word or some historical item that is very important and if you research it far enough you will solve wwwh. That person would definitely find the treasure sooner than Fenn might have imagined.

      Even more directly, what if that word was the HOB or the final clue and with it you could go directly to it. I’m not suggesting any of this is true, but you asked for a scenario where a key word could allow the poem to be solved sooner than Fenn expected.

      What I don’t believe is a key word exists that suddenly makes all the letters in the poem change and the final solution is revealed. That works in the movies, but with this poem I believe you are dealing with words and places and so the keyword is probably something that helps with research, but doesn’t directly solve it.

      As for me, I have no keyword. I believe using a keyword might send you down the wrong path and you’ll never be able to solve the puzzle because you’re stuck with that keyword.


      • Indy, I agree with you. When Fenn made that statement it was after numerous attempts telling us to start at the beginning. To me the word that is key is “begin”. He was trying to tell us to start where the poem tells us to start……..DUH!

        The deep thinkers will never accept this, but hey, they are entertaining.

        Just my opinion.

        • Goofy,

          ” Begin it where…” is the question then. If the poem doesn’t say…then the book must, imo. And now we are back to…all the information to find the chest is in the poem.

          So would you say that either the poem holds this answer or the poem directs you to the book to find the beginning?

          I can see it both ways honesty… poetically the first stanza can be saying…alone in my memoir. And the poem hints of his riches ( to mean his knowledge of) from then till now…new and old, past and present.

          The one thing I can’t denied is fenn saying… references: the book GE ” and/ or” a good map. But from the start… the book will help.

          Now my problem is back to…can the poem be solved on its own?

          • Seeker –

            Yes, indeed I think the poem can be solved on it’s own.

            Everything I did with the book – was icing on the cake. My spot has never changed from day one. It did change about 600 feet. I don’t think I would have put the years into this had this not happened to me in exactly the way it did – and had the entire solve, not started working for me.

          • inthechaseto – I agree. I had the same experience with using The Poem only in discovering my main solve spot in March/April 2013. I didn’t read both books until Oct/Nov 2013,…and items in the books did support that solve.

          • I know I go against the grain for what most people believe on this topic, but…

            If you sat down and had a chat with f and he told you

            “If you’re serious about looking for the treasure, read the book”

            then you asked him

            “How would you go about trying to solve the clues and find the chest?”

            and he told you

            “Here is what I would do. Read my book in a normal manner. Then read the poem over and over and over, slowly – thinking. Then read my book again, this time looking for subtle hints that will help solve the clues.”

            How important would you you think the book is in assisting a person in finding the chest after that chat?

            Would you seriously consider trying to solve the clues in the poem without the book after he told you that?

            And just how serious would you be about finding the chest if you decided to skip the book after that conversation.

            I would add, is there a difference between (1) coming up with a solution and going to the book to find things that support and justify your solution versus (2) reading the book, getting ideas from it that help you think certain things that then help you figure out what the clues in the poem might mean?

            Yeah, I am going to stick to my methodology and hope that others stick to theirs.

          • Inthechase, JCM

            While I have been call a poem purist, I think… should the book have important information [ note important as needed for solving the poem ] Than the poem somehow must leads the reader to the book. [ not an after the fact comment, if we’re being honest ]

            That does not disqualify the comment that [ para. ~ all the information is in the poem ]. It would mean that we need to understand that to be so. If this were true, It would make a better discussion than simply saying fenn told us he would read the poem and then read the book slowly [ I’ll add, from the ‘start’… we were told to solve the poem ~ a message from the book, not an after the fact ]

            My point is, If part of the poem does imply that the book is ‘that’ important… where is it found and why is it or is it not a clue? Searcher have told fenn exactly where they were, So the reasonable question is… is one of the first two clues “The Book”? or are they referencing something else as the first two clues? How are we to know beforehand anything if this is not figured out first?

            Many have said the first clue is wwwh… ok great… is this a shot in the dark to the thousands of possibilities [ the many wwwh comment ] research everything about water, fishing, breeding grounds, thermal vents, merging of two waters or more, waterfalls, paintings, beaver habitation and their dams and on and on. or does the book hold this answer? [ the only real reference fenn has ever stated from the start ].

            Guess the poem tells these answers or guessing the book tells or even guessing we need to research thousand of hour on every other possibility doesn’t seem to be working. I would like to know if others have wondered the same… if the book is that important how does the poem give us this detail? Subtle Hints in the book aside… All the information to find the treasure is in the poem, is needed to be understood. imo.

            But this conversation will die off soon. Mainly because everyone has their solve and to truly look into this means they would have to place those years of research on the back burner or dismiss most of it all together…

          • Seeker –

            I can tell you only what I found – that the clues can be found in the poem. Those clues are simple directions. I do not think it will take you to the pin point spot. I think close is only good in horseshoes and hand grenades. Once I figured the treasure chest was buried – is when I started looking for ways to pin point the spot – and the book helped with that.

          • Let me add to the discussion about what is or is not in the poem. There seems to be a debate about what “I” represents and what “it” stands for. According to what I read about the rules of pronouns (“I” and “it”, it sounds to me like a pronoun should only be used to replace a noun that has previously been named or will be named in the following text. So, if Fenn used the rules of pronouns and if “I” is a pronoun, then it must have been named before or after “I” is used in the poem. Same would apply for “it”. Now of course there is no way to know whether Fenn used the rules of pronouns, but it seems logical to me that if everything we need is in the poem, then that should include what “I” and “it” represent. IMO

          • Seeker – so much hinges on this Q&A for so many people and so many people see conflicting words from f over it.

            “We realize the
            clues are in the poem, but were wondering if there isn’t at least one clue in each chapter…

            All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem…”

            This one statement, compared to over 40 pages of statements I have collected from f, is by far the one that lies at the top of the heap. It is the basis from which many people approach the poem and how they figure out what the clues mean. Many take it as the absolute from which just about everything else is measured for how to solve the poem.

            If f had never made this one statement, how would things be different today in how people approach the poem and conduct their research?
            Would there be poem purists? (And is there any irony that the whole theory of it is based upon something that is NOT in the poem?)

            I personally see no conflict with the statement and everything else f has said. I see this statement in its simplicity. All the information to find the treasure is in the poem has the same general meaning as the 9 clues in the poem will lead one precisely to the treasure chest. The “9 clues” is the “information” that f referred to. That is what the bridge club question was about and that is what f clarified in his response. Straightforward answer. Think about that deeply, does that change anything for you?

            For me, the real question ultimately comes down to how does a person go about figuring this whole thing out. You are always drilling this from many different angles, which I find to be of great interest and worth participating in these blogs and discussions. But my approach personally has been to consider everything f has said, paying close attention to what he has repeatedly stated, and moved in that direction.

          • JCM,

            “There are hints in my book that will help you with the clues, but a clue will point you toward the treasure chest and a hint will just help you with the clues, if you can understand that.”

            There’s a lot brain power being expended on the blogs by some pretty bright people Jenny, and it seems they are having fun. But the great preponderance of searchers don’t comment publically. Very few tell me exactly where they are looking so I don’t know how close they are to the treasure. I’ve said searchers should go back to the poem so many times that I don’t want to say it again here. ff

            The only requirement is that you figure out what the clues mean. But a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help.ff

            All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search. f”

            “There are nine clues in the poem, but if you read the book (TTOTC), there are a couple…there are a couple of good hints and there are a couple of aberrations that live out on the edge.”

            “Get the Thrill of the Chase and read it; and then go back and read the poem, over and over and over again. And then go back and read the book again but slowly looking at every little abstract thing that might catch up in your brain, that might be a hint that will help you with the clues. Any part of some is better than no part of any. ” –

            Is it an advantage to buy The Thrill of the Chase and Too Far to Walk?
            There are hints in my TTOTC book that can help solve the clues in the poem.


            ****There are mostly answers [ saving space and time] about the poem and the book. What I keep seeing in most is, the book holding subtle, not deliberate, helpful information ~ book as reference. in other comments [ and again there are many ] F reminds us to go back to the poem etc.

            Again my point is; I keep hearing folks say the book holds the answers, talk about the book and how they solved the poem from it… however I have no quote from fenn that states the book does this, only that ‘any part of something is better than nothing’

            So ~ I think back to the start and the information we had… a book that contained the poem and told we need to solve the poem [ with hints sprinkled in the book ] however, this simply seems to be a guess that the book has the required answers for the poem…. IMO – wouldn’t the poem have to explain the book holds the answers? and if so where in the poem can this be referred to?

            I have wondered if this is what fenn talks about when he mentioned a “word that is key”. Not a word that magically unlocks the location of the chest… but one that points us “back” to the book for critical piece[s] to solve the poem, but without the guess work.

            Such as the first stanza, F has gone alone with his “treasures” [ plural ] to mean memoir… or… the question in stanza 5 “answers” … or … Brave; to take on a challenge. in the “wood”; reference to the book. Even, I give you “title” to the gold, might refer to the title and the book.

            If All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. Then shouldn’t the poem tells us the book has them?

          • Mindy,

            I gave it a quick read and you have some good points. What I’m look for is not a bunch of things from the book that gives the impression the book is a needed part of the solving of the poem’s clues… That’s the, carriage before the horse.
            But IF stanza one does relate the reader back to the book…. how do you consider it to be clue # 1 ?.

            We have been told that, searchers told fenn where they were and ‘he’ knows they had the first two clues. I’m hard press to think that the first clue is not an actual place or at the very least reference “with” clue # 2 as a place.

            For me, if the book is the first clue… how can we think of it as a place? or even a clue? Wouldn’t that simply imply ~ this is where you find the answers… hence not a clue but a direct piece needed to be known of?

            In my mind, when fenn talks about “know where to start” .. “You need to start at the beginning” I think they may imply to the book and not so much the poem. [ maybe, possible, could be… I’m still up in the air on this ]

            On the other hand, I can also see the poem talking about one specific place and not nine… and that is where we need to start, the first two clues being many lines in a section of the poem as clues giving a single answer to a single location.

          • Seeker,

            You actually could be right on stanza one not being clue 1. I believe I know the “how” of solving the clues, and I believe I know what the clues are, but I haven’t solved all of them. From what I see so far, the nine clues refer to one place, not nine separate places.
            I don’t think I will know exactly which clue is first until I solve everything. That being said, I do believe I have strong evidence that supports stanza one referring to the place to start.

          • Mindy,
            1-In your partial solve are there more than one word that is key?
            2- Are all your clue places in the continental US?

            1-I suspect that each stanza may have a word that is key.
            2-And my first location is in the Virgin Islands.

          • The way I think I understand the poem, many lines describe a single place. So I agree on that point.

          • Seeker – you said:

            Again my point is; I keep hearing folks say the book holds the answers, talk about the book and how they solved the poem from it… however I have no quote from fenn that states the book does this, only that ‘any part of something is better than nothing’

            I agree with you on the points about the book, people are looking for the answers in it and saying that they were able to confirm their solutions with the it; but f has never said that the answers were there or that the book should be used to confirm any of the clues, only that the book can help a person figure out what the clues mean.

            “There are hints in my book that will help you with the clues, but a clue will point you toward the treasure chest and a hint will just help you with the clues, if you can understand that.”

            I think many don’t actually understand what f said with that, but many like to think that they do.

            You also said:

            If All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. Then shouldn’t the poem tells us the book has them?

            I struggle in agreeing with this thought because you are taking a statement from outside the poem to dictate that only the poem can point you to something outside the poem that can be of help.

            In other words, where in the poem does it say that all the information you need to find the chest is in the poem? If it doesn’t say it, then where in the poem does it point you to this fact outside the poem? And if the poem doesn’t point you to it, then is all the information you need to find the chest really in the poem?

            The only argument left is that f said (1) that all the information to find the chest is in the poem — but he also said (2) that the book will help you solve the clues in the poem; and he has said statement (2) many more times than statement (1).

          • JCM,
            F has compared the poem to a cake recipe.
            If he gives you a recipe for a cake, and says “Here’s all you need to make this cake. It’s all right here in the recipe,” he doesn’t need to tell you that you also need an oven, a spoon, some flour, and a kitchen, because it’s in the recipe.

            Same principle with the poem. All you need is the poem, because it provides the ingredients and directions. He doesn’t need to say all you need is the recipe and a spoon and an oven, because it’s already saying it in the recipe.”

            If you understand the poem, you’ll have the ingredients needed to solve the poem, and I believe it tells you where to start in stanza 1. IMO.

      • Well if you want to try a word, try WATER. Try solving the poem with stanzas 1, 5, 6 from the perspective of “I” being water. Like “I” is water and it is talking. Then put solve stanzas 2, 3, 4 with what you learned from 1, 5, 7. Clues are in all 6 stanzas in my opinion.

    • @reiteri,

      Great question and you are correct, there needs to be an application involved with the word that is key. My criteria for the “keyword” is that the finding and application of it must be elegant, it must confirm the method and progress and it must lead you to another key element.

      Does your key word do this?

    • What do you mean ” then the “I”s are as they should be? ” I believe the clues are straightforward but there are many ways to interpret the individual words, which means there are numerous ways to interpret the combined words that make up the poem. I think that when we apply the correct definitions to the words, we will have straightforward clues.

  27. I know Fenn said what he meant, and he meant what he said, but what exactly did he say?

    I looked up this quote from Fenn, regarding the “word that is key”. It was in response to a number of questions.

    Interviewer: “. . . new seekers from all across the world. What are some of your thoughts about the flurry of activity over the past year? Did the excitement about the chase surprise you in any way? Does it make you think the chest might be found earlier than you first thought?”

    Seems to me that this is a lot of not completely connected questions which Fenn apparently answered with the following.

    Fenn: “It is interesting to know that a great number of people are out there searching. Many are giving serious thought to the clues in my poem, but only a few are in tight focus with a word that us key. The treasure may be discovered sooner than I anticipated.”

    The first and last sentences don’t seem to offer anything new. Seems like he was basically acknowledging that there are many people searching and neither agreeing nor disagreeing that the treasure may be found sooner. “may be” could have just as easily have said, “may or may not”.

    It sounds to me like Fenn is saying, “Many (people) are giving serious thought. . .” I wonder though if the last part of the sentence, “but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key” might actually have been intended as a separate sentence. Perhaps it should not have been a comma, and instead the comma could have been a period. If “but only a few are in tight focus. . .” were a separate sentence then it might have a different meaning.

    If this phrsse were it’s own sentence, then it could potentially be interpreted differently. Perhaps, “only a few (clues) are in tight focus with a word that is key”, or “only a few thoughts are in tight focus with a word that is key”. I think many people believe it reads, “. . .only a few (searchers) are in tight focus”.

    Is it possible that this phrase was spoken but not typed as a distinct sentence, apart from the first half of the sentence? Does this change the meaning ? For me it might. If this phrase refers to a ‘thought’ being in tight focus, then I’ve got an idea about WWWH which I would say is very much in focus (like a lens would focus) with the word I think is key. I know there are others who have considered this “lens like” WWWH.

    Is it possible we don’t really know what Fenn is saying in this quote?

    • It’s been so long now… wasn’t this an audio or video interview? If so that may help with understanding how it was presented.

      I have noticed when I read anothers’ “typing” out an answer to the actual video or audio… I don’t hear the same commas and periods as when I read it. Maybe someone hear knows exactly where this comment was made and how… I just don’t recall.

      • Seeker,
        I would like for you, to have you look at some pictures I have of where I think the treasure is.
        I have showed a few people the pics & got some feedback.
        I would like for you to examine the word that is key as well as my solve. Warning, you may have to take a step back to being somewhat simple.
        We do have different POV’s on some things but I do respect your analysis of other ways of thinking & would like to get your input.
        Let me know…..

          • Puzzled and Jake – Key Word ‘Eye’ as ‘I’ here:

            Puzzled posted this:

            Fenn: “It is interesting to know that a great number of people are out there searching. Many are giving serious thought to the clues in my poem, but only a few are in tight focus with a word that us key. The treasure may be discovered sooner than I anticipated.”

            How about?:

            The treasure may be discovered sooner than ‘Eye’ anticipated.

            That could mean ‘sooner’ as ‘before’ you get to the ‘Eye’. The word ‘anticipated’ might also mean ‘before’.

            Let’s chew on that one,…could he mean ‘before’ the ‘Eye’ at Ojo Caliente or at Grand Prismatic Springs?

          • Puzzled and Jake – Get it?:

            “…but only a few are in tight focus with a word that us key.”

            Key Word: ‘Eye”

            See also: Lens of the eye.

          • Jake and Puzzled – Now I am going back to ff’s scrapbooks,…looking for related “I” as ‘Eye’ clues:

            How about:


            As with some definitions, there are many issues in this life that I don’t agree with (“with” is a preposition). Who made the rule that says I shouldn’t end a sentence with a preposition? Probably some Harvard PhD somewhere. Einstein said, “Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put.”


            OK,…he wrote, “with which ‘Eye’ will not put”. So he may have “put in below” my “home of Brown” (at Nez Perce Creek),…by submerging himself in Ojo Caliente,…but he didn’t put the bronze chest there I don’t think. And Nez Perce Creek has a nice pack trail that goes up it,…maybe the “blaze” is right there at the foot bridge at the trail head.

            But another “home of Brown” must be nearby,…because he wrote that story or scrapbook about a Grizz approaching him while he was soaking at Ojo Caliente,…and he submerged himselk with only his eyes showing. I can’t find that one. Can you???

      • E* No that is not the ‘lens like’ WWWH’ that I was referring to. I found this one after reading Fenn’s comment, “consider the big picture” I wondered, “big picture of what?” I believe that the ‘big picture’ is the water cycle.

        • Puzzled – Bummer. 🙂

          Because I just came up with a GREAT SOLVE because of all your posts on this topic. The Hey QWord ‘Eye’ brings so much of my research together.

          If I find the bronze chest,…I promise to reward you (if ff says it’s OK,…because he knows my plan of what I would do with it!).

          Thank you! 🙂

          • Glad I helped you, but I really think the most important word is WATER. I’ve never seen anyone mention Pg 62 in TTOTC. “Gradually the little stream got narrower and narrower until it developed verticls sides that nothing could get through but water.” Mull that over as you think about, “As I have gone alone in there”. Have your imagination follow WATER through its cycle.

          • Puzzled – On ‘water” as Key Word:

            I mentioned that I had imagined a spawning Rainbow trout,…traveling from my/Dal’s WWWH to Forrest’s “the end of my rainbow and the treasure” at my spot. The Rainbow trout was in the ‘water’,…traveling via my “it”,…the Madison River.

            I even wrote a story called, “The End of Forrest’s Rainbow”,…about a spawning Rainbow trout being eventually caught by an eagle “in there”,…while spawning in “waters high”,…much higher than my spot. The eagle got him because ff couldn’t seem to catch him on his fly line…

            But alas,…it was archived on another blog and it doesn’t seem to be there anymore. 🙁

          • Puzzled – And my “Rising Rainbow Trout (the one from that story AND the one at my spot,…which Anna remembers as my “topo trout”),…knows just where THIS is IMO:

            “Gradually the little stream got narrower and narrower until it developed verticls sides that nothing could get through but water.”

          • I do Not think the location is important. I think what is important is that only water cold get through. There are places only water can go and two of them fit a double meaning in the poem; as if water is narrating from two different places, “gone alone in there”. Takes a tad bit of imagination to see WATER narrating but when you follow the wording in the poem, I believe you can use logic to follow the path water takes as it goes through its cycle. I think you find the “answers” that unlock the poem. I know several searchers have previously looked at the places only water can go. But imo, they gave up because they didn’t understand HOB. I think I do.

          • Puzzled – Alas, no. But that story was based on a pen and ink drawing I received from ff in a thank you note for a birthday card I sent to him two years ago,…but also alas,…Forrest does not have the talent that Eric Sloane had for pen and ink drawings.

            Just kidding, Forrest!!! I KNOW it will be worth MILLIONS someday!!! 😉

          • Puzzled – My Rising rainbow Trout also knows where all those Spring Creeks are,…that release the water held in the aquifer,…the ones that make “heavy loads and water high” during the Spring Runoff,…and make “Brown” with a capital “B” for all those disappointed fly fishermen on The Madison. Here’s a good alpine hydrology chart,…since I can’t find the one with the aquifer in it:


          • That is a good chart on hydrology. I think it is missing a couple of important places only water can go.

      • E* I should have added, that I discovered two interesting things while studying this ‘lens like’ WWWH. #1- Fenn’s nephew works in hydrology (study of water ). #2 surprised me, mostly because I’m NOT part of the crowd the believes Eric Sloane has something to do with clues. I still think he doesn’t lead to any clues! But it is interesting that Eric Sloane wrote a book about this WWWH. I discovered his book accidently while googling this ‘lens like’ WWWH.

          • Hmm. Will have to look into Hydrology of the Alpine Climate. You mention water droplets evaporating. I’m sure you must be aware of Pg 80 in TTOTC. “Small waterfall…turned to MIST before it could spread on the rocks below”.

          • Puzzled – Sorry – Those two links were switched.

            There is a very large Eric Sloane painting at a local store here,…one with clouds and a vintage plane in it. I think the price was 30K,…even though it was previously owned. I texted a picture to ff last summer. I think it’s still there if you want it…

            I was glad I got to touch it. 😉

          • Puzzled – A good post about the clouds and a rainbow:


            “He then speaks of a cloud his father he imagines is upon, watching down, followed by an epitaph which is bowed as in the form of a rainbow speaking to signify the end of the journey,”

            Eric’s in the clouds (IMO in that Weather Mural now hidden in the museum behind wall),…and so is ff’s Dad. 🙂

            I think I saw an “E” AND a STAR (with an FF) in one of my first from-the-sky blazes,…which you can’t see anymore from Google Earth because of updated angles (that’s for Seeker). If melanie had not “done it tired”,…she may have seen it, too. But I don’t think decall has had BOG at a certain overlook to see it,…or maybe he did,…but didn’t “look quickly down” there carefully enough.

          • Puzzled – And the ‘E’ I saw was at the end,…at the far left,…which is why this line fits (think horses and “nigh” and that Double Omega that looks like 2 horsehoes):

            “The end is ever drawing nigh.”


            The end is ‘Ever’ drawing nigh

            Everard Jean Hinrichs = Eric Sloane

            At the end is ‘E’ for ‘Ever’,…all the way to the left. Or,…E* forever! And that is why I have the blog handle E*. The End. 🙂

            p.s. I know you are watching from the clouds, Eric Sloane,…and having a great big LAUGH over this!!!!

            p.p.s. And don’t think I didn’t see you hiding in those clouds below that modern jet in that weather mural at the Air and Space Museum (the one that’s hidden now)!

          • I just really don’t believe Eric Sloane is part of the solve. I only mentioned the book he wrote because I found it interesting to come across one of his books while googling one possible WWWH. It was just interesting. I have not used his book at all. Just saw that it existed.

          • Puzzled and HviteUlf – On “blaze” as the Key Word: ‘Star”.

            OK,…now does ANYONE know why I knew when ff and/or Dal changed this image (and I noticed, of course!),…what it meant?:


            Imagine THIS as a blaze down ff’s “face”:





            I thought it meant:

            Airforce (that’s the Airforce symbol)

            Airman (that’s what the bird means IMO)





          • Interesting…I see a different meaning in the words highlighted and have a good inclination on why/significance of the picture change. Unfortunately I will not make them public. I don’t see a bird but another hidden animal. It is a very good picture. Looks like it was taken in the New Spring and the long winter is over.

          • Puzzled and HviteUlf – Think: What would endure for 1,000 years or more,…like a ‘face’ on Mars, maybe?:


            Or an Olmec Jadeite Mask?:


            “The Olmecs especially liked Jadeite. They sawed it by drawing a taut string back and forth and using abrasive powders to cut, a process that could take years. Jadeite was the stone of the heavens, they thought, and when they carved it their hands were guided by the gods.”

            Hmmmm,…”drawing”,…and “stone of the heavens”,…and that “face”!!!!! 😉

          • I just think that isn’t common knowledge and can’t be found on a map without much research. I think the poem contains everything we need and the book has subtle hints “if we can recognize them” which may help confirm our path. I try to focus on the poem and use research only for my own interest/entertainment as I go along. When I mention my own research it is just in the former of, “isn’t this interesting”; just because it’s fun to read more about certain topics.

          • Nice! They must have been very patient to get there and calculate the proper order and path necessary to create such a treasure. If it is real. 🙂

          • Puzzled – I had only The Poem, the mytopomap (in satellite view),…and a story from Forrest’s blog called “From My Memoir The Thrill of the Chase”,…when I found my “face” (which he posted there in January 2011):


            Here’s a BIG HINT I posted previously:


            2nd Hint: The “face” is a Forrest Fin (or Forest Fin) on my topo trout. Giggling here….

          • Hi E*. You sure have brought some interesting thoughts to the party, but try as I might, no I do not see a face, star or E.

          • Hi E*. Thank you for trying to explain that to me. I think it may be a bit too arcane, but WTH do I know!

          • Puzzled – I can’t believe I just found THIS link:


            “Nature has also taken advantage of the phenomena of fins. The ears of jackrabbits and fennec foxes act as fins to release heat from the blood that flows through them”

            Here are the missing “ears” (or fins?) to that “face”,…which are size-proportional (the one on the right wasn’t so eroded three years ago, and matched the one on the left):


            “Here me all and listen good” 🙂

            p.s. I’ll add a precious picture of a fennec fox below….

          • melanie – The “face” is dead center in topo view (looks like an Olmec Mask),…then when you switch to satellite view you can see the ears that go with it:


            The Star + BIRD + F + F + E are running down the right side of the “face” in satellite view,…closest to the ridge,…but are hard to see now. In 2013 it was a direct Google Earth image shot down upon them and they were very clear. When ff and/or Dal photoshopped that image and IMO added my blazes to it,…they put it down the LEFT side of ff’s real face.

            And you can see what I think were the inspiration for these blazes on that same hillside to the right of ff in this image:


            That might help you to find them. You are looking at a face laying down,…and you are standing above its head.

          • E* – maybe, if I really squint down. Thanks for being so patient with me – ha!

            Having been back in that general area, it just seems a bit too remote to me for FF to have recently retraced his boyhood steps that far. But as I said, that does not necessarily preclude how that spot may figure into the solve for the poem. For example: “As I have gone alone in there…” and “2 people can keep a secret if one of them is dead”. Well, I can see how those 2 quotes might pertain to this place.

            How that squares with BWWWH, I don’t know.

          • melanie – Oh,…the rest of The Poem squares,…believe me,…after 3 years +,…it certainly squares!

            Also,…some of us had a long discussion about what a “few miles” might mean to ff,…per his Avalanche Lake scrapbook here:


            That short snowmobile ride from Refuge Point to my spot (that you showed in that snowmobile wipe out pic) is about:

            3.5 miles from the trail head.

            That is LESS than 4.52 miles.

          • I’m still here! 🙁 Little murky yet but guess there is only one true way to determine the depth of the water..Jump in carefully. 🙂

          • LOL water I Trust. But to poke it? Sometimes the best way to experience it is to just jump in, otherwise you may hesitate because you Know it is cold. It is that instant shock experience that definitely makes you aware of how alive you actually are. Usually followed by a few well chosen words. 🙂
            Now if it is a sleeping bear? You may want to be extremely quiet and constantly aware of its actions.

          • Hi E*, still catching up with the inbox. A thought for you to consider: FF said he drove a “sedan”, parked and walked to the hidey place (twice). Would a snowmobile trailhead fit that description in your solve? If so, you may be onto something.

            I had considered the snowmobile scenario too, or even on a pack horse in summer or an aerial landing, but that was before FF came out with the “sedan” comment and other info, which would seem to preclude the area as the hidey place. I still like the area, regardless. AND, it might yet be key in the solve!

            I’m sure FF and Donnie passed b/t those two giant ridges on their L&C adventure. Must’ve been incredible. Even without a SnoCat.

          • melanie – Oh,…I would dearly LOVE to go get that bronze chest,…where I think it is,…more than three years down the road from finding my spot (and never going to it!). But besides the ever present GRIZZ,…Dal has reiterated why I cannot:


            “JD seems to believe he might be coming back with it. E* has all the clues worked out but doesn’t have the money to go get it. Jake seems to always be on the cusp.”

            I’ll just have to post here and IMAGINE going there,…like I did when you provided that Bad Driver snowmobile link. That was really nice to see. Thank you for that. And for giving me an experienced second opinion on the details of my main solve. 🙂

          • E* – You have such a creative imagination. Maybe you could figure out a way to go check your spot. I financed my 2nd search by selling a bunch of stuff at the local flea market. Actually made more $$ than I spent on the trip, and I got rid of a lot unneeded stuff to boot – total bonus!

            I hope you get BOG soon! And thanks for your provocative (in a good way) thoughts/ideas.

          • melanie – Thank you for the compliment and for the great ideas to raise $$. I wish the BBC folks were going to the location near my spot to film with Dal,…when I was there July 28 – August 2, 2013 and again August 14-19, 2013 (when I was escaping a 100,000+ acre fire here!). But,…no,…they were there BETWEEN my two trips!:


            And we won’t ever be able to see that production,…because it only aired in the U.K. I am sad….

            Wait! Maybe I can call Anthony Geffen to get a copy (who worked for the BBC for 10 years),…who was here at his favorite library,…to do a viewing of Part 1 and a talk on THIS production:



            Coincidentally,…a little girl had colored in a drawing of a reef fish with pencils earlier in the day and had given it to me at the library. I had Anthony Geffen sign it,…and I know that fish will be worth MILLIONS also! 🙂

          • Hi E*. As I have lamented before…I’m always the last one to the party and the last to know. Woe is me. Do I take it you are down under? If so, I did not know know that. It might take you a few flea markets for air fare to the Rockies. Sigh.

            But, if you have that solve of yours solid enough, it could be worth the trip. 1/2 of something is worth a whole lot more than 1/2 of nothing, eh?

          • melanie – Thank you for the compliment and for the great ideas to raise $$. I wish the BBC folks were going to the location near my spot to film with Dal,…when I was there July 28 – August 2, 2013 and again August 14-19, 2013 (when I was escaping a 100,000+ acre fire here!). But,…no,…they were there BETWEEN my two trips!:


            And we won’t ever be able to see that production,…because it only aired in the U.K. I am sad….

            Wait! Maybe I can call Anthony Geffen to get a copy (who worked for the BBC for 10 years),…who was here at his favorite library,…to do a viewing of Part 1 and a talk on THIS production:


            Coincidentally,…a little girl had colored in a drawing of a reef fish with pencils earlier in the day and had given it to me at the library. I had Anthony Geffen sign it,…and I know that fish will be worth MILLIONS also!

            (I had to repost this,…because it had 3 links and went into that goldarned wordpress doc.!)

          • melanie – No,…I do not think ff hid the bronze chest in Winter. But I was proving that he COULD go out there to check on it on a snowmobile then (which he said he could do,…where he hid it).

            I think he made two trips,…from his car parked at the Cabin Creek trail head (or at the Day Use area across Hwy 287) in one afternoon. Each direction is 3.5 miles. The return is downhill and without any weight in his backpack. The elevation gain is about 800ft.

          • melanie – No,…sorry to confuse you. I live just shy of the Rocky Mountains of Central Idaho,…the Sawtooth Range. I can be here in about 1.25 hours:


            Anthony Geffen likes to ski where I live,…every year I think. Even if he lives in the U.K. And he loves our local library,…and likes to come talk here about the projects he is working on,…like that Great Barrier Reef series.

          • E* – you live in some gorgeous country.! And rather close to your search area! At least closer than I do, anyway.

            I’m actually seriously considering moving to Idaho next year or the next….

          • E* Awhile back I ended up looking at Sawtooth and also Sawteeth. What drew me there was an anagram of Treasures… Serrate us (trees).

          • melanie – I do enjoy living in this beautiful area. Sometimes I just drive up the highway about 15 miles to see this:


            On July 11, 2014,…I left here about 7:30am to drive to my spot. I wasn’t feeling well (bladder infection),…but went anyway. I hit 1.5 hours of delay for construction on Targhee Pass on Hwy 20,…then HAD to eat lunch,…then arrived at the trail head about 1:45pm. There were the West Yellowstone rangers taking down the “Extreme Bear Behavior” signs. I didn’t have money to buy the $50 bear spray,…nor enough time to hike in/out twice,…so I tried to find a place to camp that would take a credit card (Campfire Lodge right there does not). No luck. I drove all the way to Big Sky to see what was thataway. Still nothing. Tried West Fork Camp in Cameron,…and the attendant was away for a few hours. Scratched up the side of my car when someone forced me over to the shoulder there. Bummer. 🙁

            So after finding no good place to lay my head,…I drove ALL THE WAY HOME!!!! But I got back before midnight,…so that was good. 🙂

        • uken2 – Why did your post make me think of one of those old cross-cut logging saws?:

          Probably because ff did that “Logging” segment in Dal’s Spring 2016 videos. But he said he used an axe,…like he did in this picture (page 14):

          Being a Night Owl (pun intended),…I think ff was looking at that crescent moon about 1-2:00am,…as it began to set in the West,…while secretly making the blazes on the “face” at my spot. 🙂

  28. Not sure what the key word is but found an interesting point. The word ‘it’ whether by itself or within another word is always preceded by a cardinal point letter (n,s,e,w), except in the last line. But you probably have the treasure by then 🙂

    • Nice pattern you found there, Peter: 7 instances (WNEEWSE) before that final T breaks the pattern. Maybe the T stands for Treasure. (grin)

        • If you trace out those directions on a map, 1 unit per N/S/E/W, it creates a sideways letter A. 🙂

  29. Lots of confusing thoughts here. If someone tells you they know they don’t. Look back in time and tell me who knows. Read the blogs for entertainment, your solution is in the heart of the poem. IMUO.

    • Absolutely correct…just need to “refine” it…The path goes up down and sideways. It takes time to find if no map is given. Keep the faith. IMUO

      P Schil

  30. I am pretty sure the first stanza is critical for understanding the keyword, and in turn, the rest of the poem. I think it is all just wandering aimlessly without that information.

  31. In order to find the Blaze FF tells us to be “Wise”, IMO Wise is the key word to finding the Blaze and the TC is below the Blaze

    • Woody, you may be right about this. I was physically within a
      couple of miles of what I think the blaze is, and saw something
      that very importantly emphasized why (generally speaking), it
      would be so helpful to have been wise (please note the “past
      tense” usage . . . it’s important!) when looking for the blaze.

      All the above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

      Good luck to all searchers. Please be safe.

  32. Has anyone heard from Jon Edo or Warlock62? I understand that they were out searching in Wyoming this past week also.

    Hope they both had enjoyable searches.


  33. JD – I believe John Edo reported over the weekend that his trip was delayed a couple weeks.

  34. The key word is “wood”. In the wood” refers to a ” knot” in the wood. A definition of a knot is that the grain of the tree “flows around it and rejoins”. To be in the wood is to be part of the tree. Perhaps one looks “quivkluy down” from the vantage point of the tree. See what the tree observes. Or, perhaps the “knot” is a homophone for “not in the wood”. A clue that the chest is not near a tree. Interesting stuff 🙂

  35. I believe the word “bold” is very important. It really helps you to see things more clearly.

  36. The key word is anagram! Each line of the poem when anagramed correctly gives you specific instructions. Try these two: And hint of riches new and old=not owned land hunter faradises. Begin it where warm waters halt=Saltwater baring me herewith. Whoa that’s pretty specific start point! I’m finishing boots on ground search today and part of tomorrow. Did find small clearing with waterfall that Forest wants you to see, and moving thru final lines of the poem. This is all IMO, by the way.

    • John edo,

      I have not figured out a “word that is key” but I can’t help but look for anagrams and acrostics in the poem too. Are they ciphers and codes? Maybe, but regardless I can’t help it. I have found they can drive you crazy though. I actually never found an anagram or acrostic that gave me a clue, but coincidentally after figuring out what I think are clues (that is IMO) a few of them perfectly anagram or acrostic to things that seem to reinforce those clues. Unfortunately online anagram finders don’t work so well with things like Flutterby and abbreviations like No. and So. and Mt. and NW and SW and MT and WY and CO, and NM, etc, so it gets complicated.

      Anyway without giving away any of my clue anagrams or acrostics here is an interesting example of an anagram I found that seems to make sense without getting too crazy. He asks this question and then says “The answers…” So I thought maybe he answers it with an anagram.

      So why is it that I must go
      And leave my trove for all to seek?
      The answer(s I already know)…

      The answer (Laos War Kidney),
      I’ve done it tired (Laos War?), and now I’m weak (losing a Kidney to cancer?).

      Also in Too Far To Walk the poem had Answer not Answers, singular, and he said it didn’t matter or something like that, without the S you still get Lao War Kidney, “the people of the country are called Lao, they speak Lao language, and they refer to their country as Lao”, so I guess it doesn’t matter, both of these anagram.

      It doesn’t help me figure out any clues but it does seem to be a coincidental anagram for things that might have motivated him to do this, and it makes me keep wondering about anagrams…


      • Mark- great input! From that same line, I already know; you can also drop a few letters to give you, I read now. Putting “now” in place of “know” or “no”; will say,” It’s know(n) place for the meek. The anagrams are tricky to understand and how to tell if you have the correct one. I’m starting to think there’s possibly a second and third poem to be found in this one. The one we see is the chest telling the story, the 2nd and 3rd are young forrest and old forrest. I’ve got a few more thoughts to put together, and will post my partial solve soon. IMO

        • Mark and John,

          We have been putting out complete anagrams over at for years, and I have yet to see them actually move anyone closer to the final solve.

          So, if you have some that you want to share, let em rip………..

        • IMO, you are reading “and hint of riches new and old”, and “begin it where warm waters halt”, incorrectly. Instructions in the words.

          And h “in” t of riches new and old. New and old is the anagram. Land owned. So it’s, h “in” t of riches land owned. Riches of the land would be “tree”. H “in” t of tree equals three.

          Begin it where warm waters halt. begin it w “here” warm waters h “alt”. Begin with warm water salt. Equals epsom.

          Chase is right, the anagram thing has been going on for awhile. From what I have found it’s back up or support info, but needed. Not actual “clues” as the 9 clues thing goes, but needed.

          Certain things may be anagrams, but the entire poem is a stretch. Way to many variables to make sense of.

          As far as dropping a few letters, I think that’s a “no-no”. If you are “instructed” to, fine, but to just drop letters, I think that will get you an incorrect solve. “know” could be k “no” w which would just give you “k” in that example. IMO, of course.

          • Charlie-lets take a couple of your variables and make some sense from them. What are odds that anagramed lines of poem, if correct, would make sense and work with corresponding lines for location? I would say only 1. The correct one and only. Having a starting point of epsom salt verses where forrest used to bath in hot spring is night and day for where to begin. Follow these next couple of anagramed lines; and give me odds! Not far, but too far to walk=art on foot flatwork abut.(look up definitions of flatwork and abut). There’s iron flatwork, in a canyon down, in the rocky mountains, and we’re getting there! Now for the next line to anagram and work with the past line must be like 1 in 50,000 or more, but get this; Put in below the home of Brown=Fun plot, moonbow be herewith! (look up fun plot by the way). In the canyon is waterfall with huge moonbow! Ready for next odds multiplier? From there its no “(known)” place for the meek=hence meek ref proof, toms trail. It’s only place to go from artist point. Guess what happens when you follow the poem line? The end of trail draws to the left(nigh). But what about the anagramed line does it fit? The end is drawing ever nigh=divine height rangers wend. From bottom of toms trail across the canyon is the north rim trail where you can be seem by people and park rangers! There are four consecutive poem lines that fit and work to the correct solve using anagrams, line for line. I just gave you a winning lottery tickets worth of information! Thats only half of the poem! Get the ttotc team back to work, anagrams are the key!

          • John, at least you are trying to solve the poem, and I like that. Who knows, it may pan out. As far as epsom goes, to me that says e+p, or the sum of e+p. Nothing to do with bathing. I see alpha/numerics in the poem from using instructions in the words and letters. Like h “in” t, of tree. It’s hard to see f talking in anagrams throughout the poem. There would be misspellings all over the place. I’m not saying he didn’t use anagrams, but for 9 clues, don’t see it. Somewhere, wherever, sooner or later, one of the 9 clues has to have a number in it. Whether it be distance to walk, how many steps, feet, yards, whatever, there has to be a number. It would be impossible to walk around and go directly to the chest unless you can count trees, or measure off distance, or count steps to take, etc… One of the clues would have to give up a number or everything would be to generalized and not specific enough to walk right to the chest.

            Now, if you used an anagram like I did in the example of “new and old”, and followed the “instruction” of h “in” t, you can get that number, wherever it may lead. To go by just anagrams takes away from his comment of making a cake, or blueprints(I don’t remember the actual quotes right now).

            That is why I gave those examples. You may very well be on to something, it may pan out if you see other forms of solving. Mainly, the instructions he gives throughout the poem. Ohh, and e+p, that equals 4, the start of the latitude. But that is IMO. When it all pans out, my WWWH is a hardware store, believe it or not. If you don’t have it NAILED down, might as well stay home.:)

    • Hi John Edo et. al.: a caution on anagramming. There are few exercises that you can perform that will send you down more rabbit holes than anagramming, particularly if you allow yourself to drop letters or (worse) add a letter or two. The number of potential solutions grows exponentially as you increase the number of letters. If you start anagramming entire lines (the shortest of which in the poem has 20 letters), like a bowl of alphabet soup you can make them say whatever you want.

      • I only dropped letters to “I read now”. I still used all the letters to form above anagrams from lines in poem. Go back and read the 4 lines that anagram to specific location. It’s what forrest wants you to see. Small clearing with waterfall similar to vietnam. Or better yet open TTOTC to the poem and look closely to the front of the car. Then check this:
        The waterfall also fits to the leaky radiator, as it’s only there in spring. Willing to bet many missed that one! So now 4 lines fit with anagrams and it matches. Coincidence? No way! IMO.

        • Oh yeah, i forgot 1 other thing… Gues how many steps are in Toms trail? 328! Exactly the number of combat missions flown by Forrest! 2 trips down, shot down twice!

  37. Right after the “Treasure” book hunt was over (golden horse) I began to write my own book too, What I discovered (and what is actually kind of disheartening if it happened to be the case with TTOTC also) is that it is very easy for “clues” to make perfect sense to the writer, which the reader would NEVER understand.

    One of the keys in the book I began to write was a sentence that explained where code was found in the story, The sentence was a long anagram. When I showed this to a few people they then explained how ridiculous the odds were for someone to take my sentence of 8 or so words and do an “anagram” that came out perfectly. To check this out take a simple sentence and go to the anagram analyzer on Google. It is amazing just how many words and configurations can come out of one sentence—they are countless!

    So i would say that if an anagram or two were used in the poem that would probably be solveable, but if the whole poem is made up of anagrams no one is going to solve it. It may seem to the writer that all of those anagrams can be deciphered, but to anyone attempting it, it is literally close to impossible.

    I’m sincerely hoping that this isn’t the case with this poem. There is no one to really prove that the poem is solvable—we have to take the word of the writer on that. But I sincerely hope that there is a most logical and really “doable” solution to the thing. Again, when I attempted to make a treasure type book, it actually proved to be unsolvable—-solvable to ME, but to those who ventured into it that was not the case. To me it made perfect sense—but when tested by others, it proved to be non-sensical.

    I’m just playing devil’s advocate a bit here. The poem greatly excites me, and I have had great fun for a couple of weeks working on it. I will continue to do so–the only thing that has nagged at me is the thought that only one person KNOWS everything, and we really don’t know if he has made this far too difficult for anyone to really solve or not. The steps to solving it may be very logical TO HIM, but to anyone else attempting to break the mystery it could truly be a blind tunnel.

    I’m hoping that the “nagging” thoughts I have are not true. I would really like to see someone solve this thing, and rejoice with them for having been able to locate and dig up something of such value! That would truly be exciting.

    • Joe –

      Aha….but we do know the poem is solvable. Forrest said – and this is not a quote – that he didn’t know if it would work……….but, he does know that it is working now. I’ll try to find where he said that.

      So, somebody has sent him something that is working…….

      I don’t believe anything he did was non nonsensical – maybe just embelished a little – but the poem is straight forward in one aspect.

      I do think that a writer could put together a wonderful book and have the reader make perfect sense of everything – right down to the coordinates.

      • inthechaseto, Your first paragraph about the poem “working” was really interesting. Were you able to find the quote that you mentioned? I see at least one other person is interested in what you shared…so please help us out…as we hold our breath and wait for you. THANKS!

    • Joe…IMO and as I posted in another thread on this blog…I believe one might be able to reduce the complexity of the search by assuming that the altitude of the TC is actually quite close to the threshold which FF has stated…In fact he may have actually further clarified one threshold if he was the one who stated that it was above 1500 meters rather than above 5000 feet. I believe the key word alluded to is BLAZE and it is probably higher than the TC.

      • mensan_fennsan, I haven’t seen FF stating that the TC
        was located above 1500 meters altitude. That is about
        4921 feet. My solve, in which I have a lot of confidence,
        puts the TC at an altitude several hundred feet higher
        than 5000 feet, but less than 8000 feet.

        I believe the mention of 10200 feet (as a maximum altitude) was to get people interested in a specific peak, which has a scenic feature, for sure. And people searching there would certainly be out in the beauty of nature. Good for FF, that clever guy!

        My key word is not “blaze”, although finding the correct
        blaze certainly is proving to be a challenge for people.

        The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

        Good luck to all searchers. Please be safe.

  38. intothechase— thanks for that. I’d be interested in knowing when he said it was working. If you could nail that down it would be great. Searching for the treasure is a lot of fun. Don’t mean to be negative just realistic. My best hope is that it is solvable— of course, I’ll keep searching anyway. 🙂

    • Joe, FF has told us that someone has been within 500 feet,
      and later FF also said that someone has been within 200 feet.

      I’m quite convinced (based on my solve) that these folks were
      DEFINITELY searchers, and would not be that close for any
      other reason!

      This suggests that the poem is working (at least for about 7
      or 8 clues). Finding the blaze is a challenge for most, in my
      opinion, but even after that, the search area is not really

      I was optimistic that the TC would be found this summer, but
      have recently decided that it won’t be likely to happen before
      next summer.

      The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

      Good luck to all searchers. Please be safe.

  39. I like your thought process, Joe Sparrow. Trying to create your own puzzle and seeing how difficult it would be to solve – that is a great idea. Very enlightening, I’m sure.

  40. Spoon— the point I was trying to make is that the anagram I put together made perfect sense to me at the time. When I began to explain this process to another person who was very interested THEY pointed out that solving the anagram would be next to impossible, To ME it seemed very solvable indeed–because I created it. But to someone else attempting to re-align all the letters correctly it would have been nearly impossible. When I realized they were correct I took a different approach to my clues. I’m not sure if I’m being clear in my explanation—but I wasn’t creating a puzzle for myself to solve. lol.

    • Yes, Joe, I understood what you were saying. And i think the exercise you went through is instructive. It was smart of you to step into the shoes of the puzzle maker. It gives you a better appreciation for what is plausible and what is not. I agree with you that it is not reasonable for Fenn to expect someone to solve a puzzle that has a billion different possible interpretations/permutations. So therefore, there must be something wrong with any approach that would produce such results. I think that is what you are effectively saying.

      What may be the true genius of his poem is that each clue is progressive and only understandable once the previous one(s) are solved. Without the context of the previous solution, the following clue makes no sense. That may be why he stresses starting at the beginning. At least that’s the way it appears to me.

  41. I thought that I would take another look at anagrams just for fun.
    “Old and New” became “Land Owned”. Which sounds good for you to get the Title to the gold.
    Next I checked “Put in Below” became “Pueblo Twin” . That led me to some interesting stories from pueblo mythology.
    That was fun. Maybe I’ll try some more.

  42. Great conversation guys. Very interesting. I too had gone down that road last year, looking at anagrams, as well as poly-alphabetic and classical ciphers. They all did produce some fun and interesting results, but none that led me down a confident path to the solve. It seemed I would get only so far, then it was as if I was forcing the next step.

    I agree with Spoon and think his theory on the solve is spot on. You have to solve each clue confidently before the next one makes any sense.

    I have a solve that I have been working now for about 6 months, I’m up to “From there its no place for the meek” and still working it out, so far producing good results and supporting evidence.

    One of the items, in the larger context of the solve, that I have been pondering on is the final resting place of the chest and how it ties into the fact that FF intended to go with it at one point.

    Anyway, great conversation and input. Thanks and have fun!


  43. I have changed my thoughts on a word that is key. I have/had an excellent word not in the poem, but recently realized that that word did not help with what I needed to know. A key will open something and I think if it’s supposed to be a word in the poem. I finally found it. : )

    • KM;

      Unless that word is “wood” – specifically, “the wood” I suggest that you reconsider. As I have posted before, there is a very obscure definition of “the wood” that points directly to a geographic area in Wyoming. Once found, this geographic area leads one directly to “in there” of stanza #a, and then to wwwh. But this is just my opinion, and I know very little. JDA

      • Agree to totally disagree. Wood or ‘the wood’ is not the word that is key.

        To me the poem/solve is straightforward, with no obscure definitions.

        • Then we agree to disagree. I agree that it is straight forward, but my definition of straight forward includes two or three obscure or archaic definitions of “key” words.

          Good luck KM Try to STAY SAFE JDA

  44. I am somewhat surprised that no one is really considering the word “it”. Maybe one should start at a place like here. 43°33’13.80″N 109°48’23.13″W
    Can anyone identify what that is/was? I know of one other person who has considered this spot and posted it but not in its entirety and may have missed a few things or did not completely understand. Why would I throw this out there some may ask? I have no intentions of going here or anywhere else. It’s simply a puzzle to me. Remember to use your imagination!

      • Jake,

        Yes, that’s exactly what is.

        Those types of structures are known as “log – flume” dams.

        Here’s another one, just a stone’s throw from that one.

        43* 33′ 51.05″ N ~ 109* 51′ 12.77″ W

        I like the Warm Springs Creek though . . .

        • Marvin Candle had a solve using the Warm Springs Creek and the wood flume upstream near Dunoir. I think it was called Warm Springs part one and two. Interesting reading. Check it out RT JDA

          • Marvin Candle did have that solve. But he only went as far as the Natural Bridge. Thinking out loud here, but what if Natural Bridge is “no place for the meek”? How’s it all fit?

      • Dang, looks like the impoundment structure for a 5 mile flume that ends where “Pinion Ct” and “Geyser Creek Trail” meet near Dubois WY. Passing Warm Spring Mountain on the way.


    • No one as considered the word “it” ?!?
      Have you ever visit the searcher discussion section of this site?

    • InColorado;

      Dinwoody creek is all that I can see. “…in the wood…”

      It has possibilities I guess, but seems a stretch to me.

      What else is/was here? I might do a bit of research just to satisfy my curiosity – that you tickled

      OK I did a brief search. The Dinwoody Formation is a geological formation in the Snake Mountains in Wyoming. Apparently, a number of fossils have been found in this formation. This would tie into Forrest’s interest in archeology. If my present site turns out to be a dud, it might be worth a second look. See if any of the clues fit the area.

      Thanks for the tip. JDA

      • All i gave was WWWH so far. Maybe look at the “wood” that is within the creek I gave coords to? Perhaps the bear creek that only has a label when zoomed in far enough? Possibly the multiple warm creeks (waters) above the “dam”? Some will disagree about the “dam” i know but its all in the definition for everyone to see. Im done for now, have fun and be safe everyone. :o)

      • Dinwoody is the very first place I centered on after I read the poem. “in the wood I’ sounds kind of like Dinwoody.
        Also, near the large lake, several hundred yards behind a house is a big black circle—-I almost jumped out of my seat the first time I saw it.

        I think it may be an area to run horses though. But again, this was back a couple of months when I first started looking—EVERYTHING looked like a blaze at that time. 🙂

  45. It seems most have no explanation of a word that is key except a simple guess. So, the key is Forrest Fenn. To back that up, in the book, “a little of me is also inside the box.”

    More back-up is in line #9. Breaking down that line and solving from right to left will give you, key me 2 of E. Again, Forrest Fenn.

    The word that is key is “key”, the key is Forrest Fenn,

    IMO, Forrest Fenn equates to 5 degrees, 8/22. Meaning the sun’s elevation in the sky on 8/22, at a certain time. You can find the time in the last line of the poem.

    The key goes along with the 9th clue. The sun’s 5 degree elevation, on 8/22, at a certain time, at your spot, where you have something standing up(think Skippy), will cast a shadow, of a certain amount of feet. Without knowing the key of 5 degrees, you cannot figure out the shadow length, like Indiana Jones in the map room. Think of the map room being clue 8, and the staff of Ra, with the light’s degree of elevation, casting that beem of light, or in this case a shadow, to the spot. The 9th clue being the time at which you would do that. Don’t forget the gold…Not just a random guess, The word that is key is “key”, the key is Forrest Fenn.

    -It is interesting to know that a great number of people are out there searching. Many are giving serious thought to the clues in my poem, but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key. The treasure may be discovered sooner than I anticipated

    but only a few of the CLUES are in tight focus, not the many. Means, the final clues are close together. And they are used with the key… To think anything else is a guess. f is telling us, straight forward. The only other possible word would be “contentment”, (going from memory), the only other time he said something was “key”.

      • JDA, I know you don’t believe in the letter/ number value thing, but, just imagine a stick(switch), 7′ tall. That’s your rod. You can figure how far of a shadow would be cast if light at 5 degrees hit that 7′ stick(switch). Ironic…

    • Charlie,

      Somewhere, f also said “the key word in the law is discover” (paraphrased), when talking about if one “discovers” that remains are of a human nature.

      Not sure where that was at, I have it in my notes somewhere.

      • I know there are a couple out there, just can’t remember them all. I looked into discover a long time ago. Came out of it as disc over. May have something to do at the final spot. That would be a wooden disc. I know he said something along those lines Roll, just can’t remember. Also in notes.

        Kind of with the thinking of:
        Disc over
        Underwood (typewriter)
        over age of 12 another turn
        and that comment about going by the next 7 clues and the Dame spins, or whatever that was.

        It all has something to do with the medicine wheel route. Spider woman myth, etc…

  46. Here are the coordinates for the circle: 43,360225 -109.370751 check it out—I got pretty excited at the time. 🙂

      • Tickle—I had just started the “search” about two days before–the tank looked like a black circle around something and I immediately thought “the blaze”—there appears to be a waterfall very close by–Dinwoody, the black circle, the waterfall—it all seemed to fit at the time–and having not really read much into the poem I got excited that I may have “stumbled” onto a solve. 🙂

  47. “…only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key”. That is really intriguing to say the least. A lot of people (including me) come on the blog at first thinking the solution is going to be a breeze, then begin to realize just how difficult the whole thing really is. Getting an intelligent take on the meaning of the poem is really important, but trying to find a word that is “key” is kind of frustrating. Do you think it could be “paddle”? Because an interesting thing to note is that you don’t need one to get where you’re going. That could be a clue. Not sure though.

  48. By the way, did you know that an anagram for “too far to walk” is “owl took a raft”? Chew on that one for the evening.

  49. It wasn’t a Keyword, but a word that is Key…. might make a difference, and might be ‘coffin’

    Coffin… chest, trunk, vault, basket, casket, hutch, store, box-like pen for animals coffin… a place where human warm waters halt for a while.
    Coffin… a bone in horses hoof
    Coffin… an old term for pie crust
    Coffin nail… cigarette (Ora Mae)

    Key, Cay… an island
    or que… as in Albuquerque

    • OS2 ,

      I’ll add to your list :

      coffin . . .


      • How about “wood” to mean a horse’s hoof to add to OS2 center part of the hoof called a “coffin” bone. And if we want to elaborate on the hoof design ~ Omega, which we can add: is the 24th letter of the Greek alphabet and X is the 24th in the English alphabet. Also case letters in Greek are; Great O and Little O. But there are meanings as well: a double Omega; Greek, Finishing, top, summit.
        LOL that’s a lot of crap from one word with extensions.

        Oh forgot one; Horse hoof [coffin bone], to horse, to In the wood, to be in the saddle and saddle can refer to the saddle of a mountain pass.

        If we want to let the imagination run a bit… we have a mountain pass with a lee side or ‘shadow’ side.

        If we relate coffin to death: words in the poem that might match… Gone, wwhalt, in the canyon down, boB [maybe]
        end, quickly down, cease, go in peace, must go, leave, cold, and in the wood [coffin. And with a bit of a twist… title / blaze for headstone marker.

        Jonsey, lol have some fun with that… Just funnin with ya.
        Research? I don’t need no research.. ha I kill me.

  50. RT, I try & stay within the ‘big picture’ of the book. Not the biggest picture, not the whole outside-the-box universe. Many think I am wrong in doing so.
    But thanks & good luck.

  51. What a French Theologian once said just might be true. “Give anonymously, in time your name will be known by the angels”.

    Though not found in the poem, I wonder if charity could be the concluding word, and key word, that we are supposed to learn in our search? I would bet all in the end that a word like charity is what is key.

    Seville Wilaison, a novice monk in Versaille, is the author of the quote above. Yes, even Wilaison, though not known by men, is known by the angels. As he often also said, “Just give what you can, and go in peace”

  52. I used to think the key word was “halt” but now I’m taking another look.

    In another thread I used the two quotes: “The poem is straight forward with no subterfuge in sight….f”, and “It was not written with the idea of fooling anyone. f” to make the point that Forrest has repeatedly emphasized that he intends no deceit.

    Take a couple of other statements:
    Dear Mz. Mary,
    “The solve is difficult for many searchers because their minds think the clues are tougher to decrypt than they really are…..f”

    “A hypothetical example of a “what if” might be, what if I was looking so far ahead that I neglected to notice what was beside me. f” In other words, maybe we are overlooking the simple answers where simple is applicable.

    Taken together can we conclude that, indeed, “Begin” is the the word that is key since the 1st clue is so important, and this could be the word that signals the first clue? it does make a lot of sense.

    I know Goofy already mentioned this (begin) but now I’m throwing my hat in that ring as well.

    • Hey Colokid,
      I like “maybe we are overlooking the simple answers where simple is applicable.” Applicable ~ is the word that is key… see what I did there… lol. Anyways. When trying to decide what begin is or mean, is it really that simple?
      Does begin only imply a physical movement to start/place or is [if this is the actual first clue ] Begin to relate to knowledge of where and when it started? I’ll add… can it be both?

      Yep, I’m back to the first two clues being deciphered, and possibly the first 4. But with searcher at the correct location and with the first two [ first two clues is all we know of at this point ] clues decipher, fenn stated one thing that is digging a hole on my skull… they didn’t understand the significance of where they were, and hop, skip and jump pass everything else.
      Is the first clue simple by just a decipher/place of the clue, or is there more to “nail” down? If so, {and it seems to be that way because many have done just that, decipher the place }, the first clue doesn’t seem that simple to me.

      I said it in another post, but I’ll repeat it here for this conversation.
      IMO, the first clue is not a simple place to start… thinking in lines of… no one will stumble upon the chest, even a searcher, if they don’t have the first clue “nailed down”

      • Seeker, apple lickable sounds pretty simple…never mind on that.
        ” IMO, the first clue is not a simple place to start…” This is possibly the reason why so many empty searches in so many years. There are many who insist they’ve got that nailed down and continue to expound on why they return over and over to no avail. Forrest has repeated himself repeatedly about the importance of the 1st clue and IMO opinion that is crux of the whole problem.
        My idea on this, is that the first clue gives an area that is in relation to the second clue(another area) but is not the place to start. I believe it all boils down to figuring out which/what is the first clue.

        • Ken, ~ “I believe it all boils down to figuring out which/what is the first clue.”

          From what I see in all of fenn’s comments about the first two clues… the which and what part seems to have been understood by those who deciphered and on location.
          For me, I have no clue of what the first clue[s] is [they apparently did] or where [again they did]… I just think something was unknown by those searchers and it seem to be more of information missing than wrong turns. I say that because of the words fenn used “understand the significance”

          Could it be, that the first clue or two clues have to be seen for that? Sure it could. or is it that it needs to be known “beforehand”. Which is what I’m leaning to.
          Another idea is… getting the right first clue from the poem, needing to see that clue, because there is information there that is easliy overlooked or not understood as part of the first clue. Maybe that is why Little Indy can’t get closer or have confidence to move on in the poem, and a map of the US RM’s… we must be on site / sight to see what fenn wants us to see and understand.

          I say this because of the intro in the book to the poem… “follow” as instructions to need all the ingredients poem and field, and “lead” as in direct and not so much directional. Is this those aberrations that fenn talks about? “Something different” yet subtle. And why I’m starting to think the poem is designed to have ourselves fall into an illusion of what we think it should be. But actually straightforward when read properly or intended.

          This doesn’t take away the thought of all the information you need is in the poem… we’re just missing something in the ingredients pile. WWWH might be a good example because, we hope it might be a single place, and not, the many. “over simplifying”?

          • You may be correct Seeker…about the first two clues being known/understood, but I have a strong feeling that folks have been close purely by misunderstanding. This figures highly probable why they, went on by…I believe the first three clues are closely related as to a specific place, but the second clue is the actual start clue. This brings to mind many discussions over the years about how close are the individual clues to one another.

          • I have thought, and still do in part, of what you said Ken. I think fenn’s use of contiguous to mean close, touching, neighboring, bordering may explain the possibility of closeness of the clues.
            That is if, the poem reads on a smaller scale.
            If we look at the big picture Idea being a huge area and the destination a small area, that might be a horse of a different color. While I don’t think fenn’s after the fact comments are clues… I still keep in mind that they are useful for thinking of the WhatIF’s and WhatsNot.

            I’m attempting to see consecutive, big picture, contiguous, first clue, and many other comments working in tandem. My approach might not be great or even useful… but at this stage in the challenge and with fenn’s involvement of taking time for Q&A’s, interviews, etc. It’s not a bad check list to help see if I got anything remotely correct.

            That is why I have asked many question for discussion…some may not like all my questions, but folks like you give feed back… thanks.
            I’m truly starting over so I don’t get stuck with rinse and repeat solves, or waiting for nature to let me search, and I sure don’t what an epiphany on my way home each time I go. Unfortunately my total travel is close to 3000 – 4000 miles depending on theory out come. I need a little more then a hunch, especially with the first clue.

      • Seeker,
        “Lets start at the beginning, it’s a very good place to start…”

        Maybe “nailed down” is the word(s) that is key. LOL

        I did use applicable for a reason, as you cleverly noted, and making a distinction between clues and a word that may be a ‘pointer’ to a clue. I doubt that the 1st clue is easy to decipher (as I said before probably not literal). And sure, begin could signal the start to something else….something else to know. But couldn’t it also be a simple “signal” of where to start deciphering?

        Let’s also not forget the CBC interview:

        Where f strongly suggests that the bulk of the clues are in the 2nd and 3rd stanzas. These things dovetail pretty nicely.

        At this point I’m still thinking the 1st clue is a physical place.

        • Colokid ~ ” But couldn’t it also be a simple “signal” of where to start deciphering?”

          Bingo… in my thoughts as well. Deciphering what a clue refers to, and maybe, just maybe the start of the consecutive order of the clues.

          But even with that deciphered start… something is still amidst… betwixt would be another way of saying that; between to positions, middle, neither wholly one thing nor another. I would even use the word encompass. LoL ya got love those words of the day calendars.
          Are we missing a piece of the first critical, need to nail that one down clue or stay at home clue.
          The “stay home” part to me is implying that “certain beforehand”
          [ there are more than one of fenn’s comments involved with my explanation, but I know you and most understand what they are ].

          Hang around Colokid… you and a few others are helping to keep on my toes… later.

          • Habitation, domicile, residence…home is where one resides…

            Find where ‘Brown’ resides…

          • Hey Sam, loco
            Been ‘dwelling’ on how ya two been doing.
            It does seem the words fenn uses in some comments and the poem revolve around hoB being a place for something that is a norm to be at. Or recognized as a normally understood. But there is still many options to look at. Maybe a place that is involved with water high only

            Brown dwell upon? hmmm. Maybe hoB has a reason from something to be where, and not so much the place its at.
            Animal; food supply? need natural things found no place else?
            Person; a place that is only for______.?
            The meek, the brave, in the wood, cowboy…

            Could the word that is key refer to Brown, but is not the word Brown itself?
            Arn’t ya glad I jumped in to say “hey”

        • Colokid;

          I am not Seeker – not by a long shot, but if I can put in my 2 cents.

          To me – 1st clue is stanza #1 – all of it.
          So – “As I went alone in there etc – “In There” IS a physical place – the place that he took his treasures bold (The TC and contents) – A place Forrest can keep a secret, but talk about its riches new and old.

          Clue #2 = 1st three lines of Stanza #2. –
          ALL physical places.

          That bottle of Seagrams is sure gonna’ taste good goin’ down sip by sip – Thanks


          • JD,
            And I thought a “straightforward” guy like you would appreciate the simplicity of the word “begin”. Go figure.

            Don’t count your cocktails before they’re poured. Tic-toc. LOL

  53. Searchers, I love this discussion. I also believe that with out first “nailing down” the first clue you don’t understand the ending.

    Colokid, I also look at this that Forrest does not try to deceit any searchers. I have always had one question in the back of my mind that no one can seem to answer about that though. The question is if Forrest says he doesn’t intentionaly try to deceit anyone or use subterfuge ( paraphrasing). Then why would he tell searchers in an email to Dal that Dal has shared with all of us, “This will be Porochista’s first time into God’s country. Please don’t let those guys find the treasure up grayling canyon.F” ???

    Seeker, I really would like us all to “nail down” the first clue also. I found something in the story a long ride home and know that it talks about the first clue.

    In review the story talks a lot about parts, division, being separated and at the end Skippy buried standing up. So I put that together to be Continental divide. The divide or parts and the Mountain standing upright at the end, Skippy. Nail down, would be an upright nail, like a mountain or Skippy.

    Now I just saw Jennys words today that confirmed it for me. Forrest says ” If you have a searching partner, best to have them wait in the car.f” This to me is to go in there alone. Alone means to SEPERATE from others. Separate is exactly what the story a long ride home is about! Look up the definition separate, it means to isolate, divide, part, to keep apart. Keep my secret where, keep apart.

    So the first line as I go alone in there tells of separating from others. What is a geographically big area that divides and will be around for a long time and you can see on map of US rockies? The Great Divide!

    So if we use the all important first clue. When we arrive at the area we must remember separation and being simple or do we adapt and look for the bond of togetherness?

    The second clue and third clues gets us to the area, I believe. But we must understand the meaning of the beginning.

    What do you searchers think? Am I thinking correctly?

    • You asked for an opinion. I will give one. I personally think that you are thinking on too grand of a scale. I do not see the “Great Divide” or “Continental Divide” playing a part in the first clue.

      “As I went alone IN there…” The key word in this sentence is “IN”, and not “ON” there. You can not go IN(to) the CD, you can only go ON(to) the CD. Just a thought. JDA

      • Thanks JD, I have not thought of it that way. Interesting thought!

        You can go over, to, from, but not necessarily in the divide.

        As I have gone alone in there, hmmm.

        Ok, I do know the first clue is parts , division, separate and if you adapt like Forrest tells us then the end should have to do with all. Such as , Hear me ALL and listen good. Could ALL be the key word?


        • One step at a time! Don’t ASSUME anything until you get there. You can not “throw Darts” at the poem, going from line one to line 21 and then to line fourteen, or where-ever. Line one to line two to line three – step by step. Just an old man’s opinion. JDA

        • P.S. – There is NO punctuation between line #1 and line #2, so complete this complete thought; BUT, there IS a comma (slow down but do not stop) at the end of line #3. You have to go to the end of line #4 before you STOP. Consider stanza #1 as one thought.

          Figure out what each line means, as PART of a complete thought. Basic English Grammar – don’t ignore the basics you learned in school. JDA

          • Thanks JD, I do need to slow down some.

            So if we know the first clue is about separation, then what is big enough to see on the map of the US rockies ( which includes all four states) that involves separation?

    • DPT,

      You said: “Then why would he tell searchers in an email to Dal that Dal has shared with all of us, “This will be Porochista’s first time into God’s country. Please don’t let those guys find the treasure up grayling canyon.F” ???”

      For everyone’s benefit, DPT is quoting the Grayling Creek Part 2 story submitted by Dal.

      To me that reads clearly as a joke not special information. Forrest has a sense of humor but not everyone gets it.

      So in my opinion….no intent to deceive.

      • Thanks Colokid for the reference. Sometimes my brain works faster than I can type and forget things.

        I understand what you are saying Colokid , and you are probably right.

      • Thanks for the link to the greyling creek search.
        It had been a special place for me. 36 years ago I had worked along greyling creek at Parade Rest resort. When I told F that he paused for a second of thought and remembered a real old cowboy that had once owned the property. Then he told me that there is no fish in greyling creek. I wasn’t fishing anyway.
        I sometimes speculate that the chest is hidden directly 200ft. north from Rainbow Point. Across the greyling arm of Hebgen Lake.
        But that’s just my subconcious memory of good times in the area.

        • Michael,
          You have some deep history in this area & know Forrest loved this area.
          I think you know this is where he would like to rest his bones.
          Maybe not Grayling but maybe Teepee, sage or Taylor.
          Just above Hebgen seems too easy.
          Lets head up further in the Madison’s along the Gallatin & see where along that walking trip from WY to Boz they would have poked out with the horses reigns free..

        • Great information Michael. Forrest said there was no fish in there one other time and that was in TTOTC in the story with Donnie. Is Forrest telling you grayling creek is the creek in the story where he says there was no fish anywhere?

  54. Good info, I really like this thread.
    JDA: I like the way you think, fellow. We should team up and go on an adventure sometime soon. I’m sure I’d learn a lot from you. You’re right though; I’d shy away from the continental divide. It’s not in my search area, at least. But hey, I don’t have the chest in my hands…yet. Take it with a grain of salt, I suppose.

    • Thanks for the nice words Joe. Sorry, I have never considered a partner, but it might be fun.

      I wish you the very best. I hope that you find all that you seek, and TRY to STAY SAFE JDA

  55. A crazy relative, or someone that I couldn’t identify, left a voice-mail asking about the poem today. They were asking if it would be easy to hide anagrams or acrostics in the poem leading to the Treasure.

    Geez, and I thought I was the one with all the questions! But am I too hasty in dismissing the use of these things in the poem? I’m investigating all the avenues, so just wondering what you all think about this. I’ve been searching for two months now, and I have told others what a fun thing it is to do.

    But, unfortunately, I haven’t gotten very far. 🙂

    • @Joe Sparrow –

      astree and 42 (profile names of contributors) seem to see this sort of thing more naturally than others, based on my observations of these blogs. Perhaps they will directly respond.

      • E.C.—- Great. And if they believe acrostics or anagrams are in the poem it would be a great help.

        When a Fenn “tidbit”, in the form of a hint, comes our way, I’m never exactly sure how to define it.

        But anything in the way of new information I’m always open to. This poem is leading me to the “funny farm” quicker than I thought it would!

  56. Joe Sparrow (and others),
    IMO, it would be possible to hide information in the poem.
    But, IMO, there is no useful information hidden (in that sense) in the poem, and the “word that is key” is just one of the words of the poem.
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

    • Geoff– Thanks– I am beginning to think you’re right. There is a great deal about the “bare bones” poem that still needs an explanation—it really is a challenge.

      When a friend told me to focus on the words, not the hidden meanings, I didn’t want to listen at first. But I think they may be right. I think may take the literal approach from now on.

  57. Try steganography. Take any line. Use some letters, discard some, ignore spaces. You will see there is a hidden sentence within every line of the poem.

    • Not exactly what you want to do I think, Timw. The method you suggest changes the poem or alters lines.

      Try it without changing anything. There is only one method that will do this IMO.

      And, for Geoff and Joe, there IS hidden information in the poem. Finding where to start is the hardest part. All IMO of course.

      I also fear that using the literal wording of the poem to identify or understand the clues over-simplifies any solution that results. I think f was much more creative and crafty than that.

      • samsmith– This is a great place to visit and discuss the poem. There is a better way to understand it I’m sure. With a few theories, and some facts I’ve seen quite a bit.

        I think someone intelligent, new, without your ordinary mindset, is near gaining the upper hand in this search!

        There may be hidden information— but I think someone is getting close to solving the thing. Searchers with a new “take” on things are going back to be successful.

    • Tim, if you discard letters or words from the poem, you’re messing with the poem.
      From what I remember, Forrest said don’t mess with the poem.

      • Come on you guys try it. How is it messing with the poem? I guarantee you there are hidden messages in every single line of the poem. It is not easy to pick out the right letters to make words. But they are there. It will get easier with a little practice.
        There is another method to pick out even more words.
        They are hints to the treasure location and some about Forrest himself.

        • No way Tim,
          You’re not going to ever get me to start messing with the poem.
          I like it just the way it is even if it don’t like me.
          My word that is key is – nigh – it’s the only word followed by a semicolon which in texting & typing means – wink.

          It appears to me Forrest is winking at you after this word without the smile.

        • Timw: I’ve said it before, but doing what you’re describing is hardly more of a method than forming sentences with your Alphabits cereal. The only thing worse would be if you were anagramming every line. If you’re going to carry out a hidden-message extraction technique, it must have a small number of degrees of freedom. Your approach has hundreds if not thousands of combinations per line. Just consider how many words can be formed from the very first line of the poem: ash, ashen, Asia, age, ago, an, ant, Avon, anon, alt, ale, agent, Ann, Anne, ain’t, alter, as and alone — and these are just most of the words that start with A. I’m sure I could construct over 100 words or phrases from that first line.

          • zaphod…

            What would you calculate this ‘small number of degrees of freedom’ to be if the extraction technique allowed for 0 to a max of 5 selections or choices in any given line of the poem?

            How accurate would you think such a technique could be rated?

            Just curious as to the odds being in my favor…

          • Forgot to add…

            The technique also operates with no changes at all to the poem, even spaces and punctuation remain as is…

          • Hi samsmith: I would need more information to assess the viability and prospects for generating “false positives”. For instance, are you selecting from only a single poem line or multiple lines? If multiple lines, are they scattered or consecutive? Are you extracting words or letters? I understand that you can’t reveal the system, but I can’t answer your question w/o more of a general idea of the method.

        • Timw: I was overly pessimistic about how many words I could form from the first line. I wrote a quick computer program to do this and it found over 450 words including some longer ones like anointer, another, heather, igniter, neither, sheather, and signaler. Had I opened it up to allowing multi-word phrases, I’m sure it would be over 1000. Do this for all 24 lines of the poem and you will have a number of combinations that is approaching if not surpassing the number of atoms in the observable universe!

          • I don’t have to create a program to already know it’s going to lead you to no mans land.
            I think you want to cut down on the probabilities within reason instead of expanding them into the universe.
            What happens when you stretch a rubber band too tight?

  58. its my opinion that the key words are – not far but to far to walk- begin it where it all started (santa fe)- from there its not far but to far to walk to – wwwh – to canyon down to hob – to waters high- to the blaze – where he parked – then it changed to not far to walk from the blaze to in the wood to where he hid the treasure chest – so from santa fe to the blaze its not far but to far to walk imo

      • Jake maybe so and maybe not – to me not far but to far to walk says more to me then just one word would and tells me – the is a lot of information in those words if you just listen and think about what it says that is just my opinion

          • Jake, Frank, John

            I will tell you this much and Jake you know that I do not B.S. anyone.
            There is a key word that opens up the whole poem and I do believe that Kedar’s mom and I know the same word. If you look back Kedar’s mom said that she is going searching this weekend because of what she had found in the poem. She is going to a different location than her original search, so I believe that she also found the same word that I found… I couldn’t go search until my wife retired and she has now. We are leaving today to go to a specific location that the keyword gave us. Who knows, maybe Kedar’s mom has already beaten me to the location. I will know more Monday.

          • Enjoy your trip Timothy & wife.
            I wouldn’t worry about others knowing your keyword or being in the same area as others.
            The odds that you’re both in the same area is astronomical & the same odds seem to apply to finding the treasure.

            I never caught what state you’re looking in.

      • Jake, I think A WORD may be many words (The WORD of God, etc)… as A WOOD may be a cluster of trees. I dunno, how strictly does the article control the noun?

  59. Tim all I can say is good luck to you on your trip hope every thing works out for the good and you find the treasure stay safe

  60. Timothy or Kedars Mom,
    Are you mentioning what state that has the two of you bumping into each other?
    I hope for the sake of Fenn and family that you…or someone is successful real soon.

    • LMN,
      My search partner and I keep it secret where our great adventure has taken us. We are looking forward to my partner finally arriving there for the first time, I’ve been twice.

  61. Drawing is the key word because that’s where your imagination comes into play no knowledge needed if you have the right map google earth and the book with the poem Imagination is more important than knowledge Happy trails people winter is creeping around the corner

    • Another case for Peace as the possible word-key.

      “Many have given serious thought to the clues in the poem but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key.”

      only a few (scant) tight focus (marvel gaze) and what comes after ‘take the chest and go in peace’.

      He also used ‘contentment’ just another word for peace.

      If you find the gold chest, once you leave you are in a place-location called peace or equivalent. Or, if you believe ‘take the chest’ means your ‘solved clues’ and now is time to put botg you will need to go to a place-location named peace or equivalent.

      Just my 2 cents, this key has not opened doors for me yet. 🙂

  62. I would think that until someone takes the key word ( where ) seriously,
    the chest will not be found. No clue will be answered until it is known by
    someone, ( where ) warm water halts. Warm water halts, going into cold
    creeks, or rivers are in thousands of places. A person has to know where warm water halts before any other clue can be solved. ff, has made this
    very clear. Good luck to all.

    • Sam M.
      Fenn made what very clear?
      ~ “A person has to know where warm water halts before any other clue can be solved. ff, has made this very clear.”
      That WWWH is the first clue?
      That “where” is meant to be WWH?
      That “where” is the key word?

      Dang, what did I miss in the last 24 hours.
      Hey Jake.. Ya pickin up what I’s be puttin down, now?

        • I’ve had Montana on my mind all day for some reason. It all started out in the parking lot. I was talking to this dude about speakers and the guy said “Get yourself some Bose, man”.

          From that point on I’ve had Montana on my mind–really strange.

        • “Other than the poem describing how to locate the Trove … is the poem designed to convey a deeper significance? ”

          You figure it out Jake.

        • Oy Jake, you’re making me lift my cone of silence… if it is subterfuge, its not in sight. Listen good to the Flanguage.

          And Sam, right, the key is ‘where’, but in IMO, that’s not the ‘word that is key.’ The word is ‘I’… not that ‘I’, the other ‘I’. And it is not ‘Indulgence” either…. I kinda suspect it flows and is good at keeping secrets (doesn’t have a big mouth).

          But I’v suspected a lot of things that were mirages.

          • Woosh!
            “NO subterfuge in sight”

            I think the word “no” was the 1st word we learned but it seems it just doesn’t take for some.

            Maybe in another 60+ years it will.

          • Jake-
            “NO subterfuge in sight” makes sense to those who do not see the subterfuge. Those who realize the subterfuge no longer see it as subterfuge, which makes f’s statement accurate with subterfuge.

          • You’re speaking subterfugely.
            You’re statement is not correct.
            I see & realize subterfuge in most of what he says but when he says no subterfuge for a particular statement, then I have to believe what he says.

          • I thought about that colo,
            Then you have to think if his eyes were closed or the poem wasn’t within his site. If the poem wasn’t within sight, I’m sure he has a copy in his head that he can see.

            If it’s out of sight, it’s off my table, but you can keep it on yours if you like.

          • Thank you colo & the same to you,
            Getting back on point, the word that is key may be referring to unlocking a part of the poem or maybe the whole poem.

            T-igh-T focus on the word….

            Maybe it’s not in the poem but that would leave way too many words on the table & he might as well said nothing, but he didn’t.

          • Jake,
            I’m gonna be real nip-picking here. The Q&A sent to fenn, gave fenn time to think about an answer. The point?
            The point is “A” to “The” use in the answer for “A” word that is key. [ you and others continue to use The].

            SB124 gives a good example of the difference. imo.
            Example; A dog dug up the flower garden… what dog is being talk about?
            “The” dog dug up the flower garden… this narrows down the exact dog and not a random one.

            In the SB: I caught a nice fish and with it he took my photo. I mean he took my photo with it. [with it- has the same affect as does ‘A’ in the answer]Subtle, but different….
            Is “A word” the key to breaking open the poem for a solution, like most seem to think it is, or is it simply a helpful word, not unlike a hint, and some have relayed this or talked about it.

            We can look at it both ways… but many don’t.

          • “A” is the dogs name?
            You better go replant those flowers & keep a out of it.

            Wuz up A dog?

          • Jake, either your thick or having fun… lately it’s hard to tell.
            “A dog” can be any dog.
            The dog can only be one dog.

            I think it was HMA who [ and a few others ] that have other words they feel are key pieces to be known. This would match to “A dog” as an example.
            Others use the word as the code breaker for the poem. This would match “The dog” as an example.

            As you said; “Woosh!
            “NO subterfuge in sight”

            The again… maybe your right… not far but too far to walk means; use a four legged pack animal. or a 4 wheel vehicle.

          • I guess you haven’t noticed which doesn’t surprise me.
            Woooosh! Once again.

            I am thick & thin & having fun.

            Another form of transportation may be a floatable & a flying carpet can’t be ruled out.

            I just don’t see anything you said relates to “the word that is key”.
            I offered my opinion on that but seems like folks want to sidetrack everywhere.

          • Seeker –

            “I think it was HMA who [ and a few others ] that have other words they feel are key pieces to be known. This would match to “A dog” as an example.
            Others use the word as the code breaker for the poem. This would match “The dog” as an example.”

            I found one word that is key and it’s not just any word. If it was just any word, it wouldn’t be helpful. The word that f chose, helped me narrow down the search area considerably. I still remember back to the day when I found the word that is key. It was a very special day. 🙂

  63. Sam—-
    Actually, according to the poem it is not where warm water halts, it’s where warm waters halt— there is actually a difference if we stop to think about it for a moment.

    Waters may actually infer two different sources.

  64. Rich—

    But they do to Forrest Fenn. Is “halt” possibly a hint regarding “walk”? Very possible.

    • Good morning gent’s and ladies
      halt (to me) means STOP. When it’s to far to walk, I imagine f is telling us to drive to the next location and when you get there you are going to have to STOP the car.
      So: Halt = Stop
      walking or driving you will have to Stop at some point. So maybe, just maybe the key word would be = Stop!!!
      NAH… To simple

  65. Hi All. Mr Fenn is messing with your heads. There may be a key word in the poem, but the quote he gives us is an anagram. It does not give away the actual location of indulgence, but gives a hint to something that is used nearby. Good luck guys and gals.

  66. Seeker,
    The big question is where is the chest, where is the home hasof Brown, where is warm waters halt? Where, where, where ! I believe that the first clue is, Begin it ( where ) warm waters halt, because f, instructs you to start your solve here. Here is my reasonings. The true place where warm waters halt, is in a canyon that has cold water running down . The warm waters, or multiple warm springs halt when those waters run into the cold running water that runs down the canyon. You know the Bible is read, by many people, and the readers can not agree, for there are over a thousand different Churches. The poem is straight forward, but people read it
    differently. I think Dal commented some place on one of his pages quoting f, it said something like, if you have not solved

  67. Seeker,
    I will try to finish my comment, I must have touched the post comment.
    The quote that I think Dal posted of f,said, if you have not solved the first clue you might as well stay home, and watch tv, something to that
    way of thought. I think most people have read it?

    • You’re more than likely referring to this quote;
      “The most common mistake that I see searchers make is that they underestimate the importance of the first clue. If you don’t have that one nailed down you might as well stay home and play Canasta.” f

      But yet, you assume that wwh is the first clue. Which has never been stated by fenn, that I know of.
      In fact fenn has stated; you need to know where to start, need to start at the beginning, many ignore the first clue, don’t dwell on the first clue enough… So you automatically think ‘where’ is the word that is key or ‘where’ is even in this time period. As well as begin it. None of which fenn has “clearly” stated.

      Example; IF wwh was to imply waters that ‘halt’ to exist, stop being, gone etc. Then “begin it where” is of a past time, and keeping with the past tense of stanza 1.
      If someone was to come across the book and the poem in the future… wouldn’t the entire subject be of past tense? for interpretation.

      “I’m not flippant about this. It’s not something somebody is going to be able to do on spring break or a Sunday afternoon picnic. I’m looking a hundred years down the road, maybe a thousand years down the road. People don’t understand that.”

      Fenn has stated he wanted to influence future generation… does this mean we are to read the poem only as if it is for today’s time period or do we need to think, the possibility, the poem can be read today as it can be read 1000 years from now… with the same tools we all had from the start.

      Another words, how can we be guaranteed that today’s wwh will be around in 100, 1000, or 10,000 years from now. A lake can dry up, a water fall stop running, a river changed, etc. If all the information we need to find the chest is in the poem and the book is an excellent reference to help with the clues… what happens to all those thousands of possibilities of the assumed first clues start to disappears?

      I still find it interesting that readers pick and choose an after the fact comment that works for their theory, and dismiss many others that talk about or refer to the same.

      • Yea, I agree Seeker, LOL
        Options, picking & choosing is interesting.

        Maybe we should all just go down the same path?

        • You’re the “majority rules” guy Jake…

          Short of SidnCharlies post, almost all solve related post are almost exactly the same, just different starting and ending points.
          Yet, we have many searchers who have told fenn where they were and he knows the deciphered the first two clues.. hmmm maybe clue 2 is wwh and clue one was never known at all but fits so tightly its a necessity to understand.
          Could a searcher reverse engineer from hoB to wwwh, sure but why would you… seems the possibility is, wwh is not the critical first clue. You know the one fenn keeps tell us to go back to the poem, many ignore the first clue, haven’t dwell on the first clue… Who here ignore wwh… But many, like yourselves dismiss an entire 1st stanza as a 15 year in the work introduction. And completely stop after stanza 4.

          Like I said before ignorance of lack of knowledge and information… now I’ll add stupidity is having the information and ignoring the possibilities.
          One simple question Jake, why are you so dead against those whatIF postings?

          More than ever, and 6 plus years later, the majority rules doesn’t seem to be working well. On the average of 100,000 searchers and / or searches a years, we are climbing to over 600,000 attempts at a solve… great track record, dontcha think. lol and by fenn’s account clues are being solve and we may not even know they are.
          lol. Maybe I should change my definitions to; Ignorance is stupidity that can’t adjust.

      • Seeker,
        If you watch the expedition unknown episode, Forrest says the first clue is wwh.
        Very clearly if I am not mistaken.

        • The first clue is not WWWH, IMLO. 50,000+ people have assumed it is, and guess what they have to show for it? Nada.

          • zap-
            “I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man…”
            Sorry..couldn’t resist…

            Your comment is one of a few thousand possibilities multiplied by a few thousand guesses why no one has found the chest..

            It’s quite possible WWWH is the first clue but only a few have figured out where it is located and so they didn’t find the chest…

            It’s also possible that 50,000 people have correctly determined that WWWH is the first clue and also correctly guessed where it is but missed the second clue…and so didn’t find the chest…
            and on and on and on…

            There is certainly no evidence that WWWH is not the first clue and no evidence that tens of thousands have not figured out where it is…

            Additionally…this is the “Key Word” discussion page…not the WWWH discussion page so please keep on topic…

          • Hi Dal,

            “zap-“I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man…” Sorry.. couldn’t resist…”

            Ah, True Grit — great flick!

            “Your comment is one of a few thousand possibilities multiplied by a few thousand guesses why no one has found the chest..”

            Actually, it’s not so much an explanation for failure to find the chest as it is a sensible explanation for why so FEW people have solved the first two clues. After all, *if* there is a clue in the first stanza, and a huge number of searchers believe the first clue is WWWH, then naturally all those searchers will fail. So many people are satisfied with dismissing an entire stanza of the poem just because it “sounds” innocuous. Foolish, in my opinion, in light of Forrest’s remarks about dismissing single words, let alone over 16% of the poem.

            “It’s quite possible WWWH is the first clue but only a few have figured out where it is located and so they didn’t find the chest…”

            Possible, but not the most likely scenario.

            “It’s also possible that 50,000 people have correctly determined that WWWH is the first clue and also correctly guessed where it is but missed the second clue…and so didn’t find the chest…
            and on and on and on…”

            From a pure logic standpoint, sure. But again it’s not a very believable scenario.

            “There is certainly no evidence that WWWH is not the first clue …”

            The only evidence that anyone would accept is proof of discovery of the chest, so I agree with you here.

            “Additionally…this is the “Key Word” discussion page…not the WWWH discussion page so please keep on topic…”

            Is this directed at me or Kelly? I wasn’t the one that said WWWH was the first clue (and therefore, presumably, the “key word” is somehow attached to that line). You should be on Kelly’s case for claiming that Forrest ever said that WWWH was the first clue, when he has NEVER done so. Nor will he ever, IMO, because it ain’t.

  68. Who says that the “key word” has to be in the poem? I have always thought of the key word as being “Research.” Too far fetched??

  69. Feb 2014
    … What are some of your thoughts about the flurry of activity over the past year? Did the excitement towards the Chase surprise you in any way? Does it make you think the chest might be found earlier than first thought?
    “It is interesting to know that a great number of people are out there searching. Many are giving serious thought to the clues in my poem, but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key. The treasure may be discovered sooner than I anticipated.”

    “A word that is key”~In the poem or in the book?
    In one thought, a word in the poem would help with the entire poem.
    But should the word be from the book, wouldn’t that be a hint?
    Is it for the poem or a critical part of the poem or a clue itself?
    How do ya’ll see it?

    • Seeker…
      I’ll bite…I found a word in the poem that blew things wide open for me. Before you ask…not saying which one. Is it the correct one? I would say…maybe. I say this…because it may stand to reason that there are more than one words that may be “key”. Think about it…a set of directions containing nine clues… embedded in a poem…would there not be at least a couple of keys words( out of 166) ?
      I also discovered a word in TTOTC that… in my opinion…may blow things out of the proverbial waters…

      • I won’t ask what your word is… But how did it open things for you?
        Example “I” could be the word… this would infer the possibility of another being narrated into the poem.
        Using “As I Have” vs. “I’ve” could bring out a word that is key, and possibly a location of knowing where to start.
        Brown as well, only for the fact of a capital letter usage of a word within a sentence, and could refer to a word that is needing to be capitalized.
        Halt has many of us itching our heads… Far seems to have two usages, and one of the few words in the poem repeated that seems to be part of a possible clue…etc.

        How does your word help?

        • Does anyone think that ” in tight focus” might mean you need a magnifying glass to see it?

          • Eaglesbound,
            I do think “tight focus” could be telling us the “word that is key”.
            As far as the magnifying glass, I just dismissed that in the past but maybe I shouldn’t be? I just don’t know.
            I haven’t spent a whole lot of brain power on the “word that is key” up to this point. Have kinda felt about it as I do about counting clues, it’s a distraction. But, at this point, I need to be looking at things from lots of different perspectives………so my thought at the moment is along the lines of what Seeker and Ken are discussing, the word “I”. (Would make sense with the”tight focus” if you think about it as “eye”.)
            Let’s expand a little on that……..IMO the searchers who are not exploring all of the different meanings of most of the words in the poem are making a mistake. For a very long time I did not give I much of a second thought but it turns out it could have several different usages in the poem-
            I as in me
            I as in the ninth letter of the alphabet, sometimes used to denote or hold the ninth place.
            Eye as in look
            Aye as in yes
            I as in the initial of Indulgance
            That’s not to mention the different things that “I as in me” could be referring to.
            Now to go apply those to poem……………

          • Wygirl, When I read ” tight focus ” I instantly thought “under a microscope”. A magnifying glass works too. Have you used it yet in the book?

          • No eaglesbound, I have not. I don’t have a decent one right now. I always just use my jewelry loupe when I need to look at something closely but that’s not so easy with the book, lol. It’s meant for looking at very small areas that can easily be held in your hand not page after page in a big bulky book.
            “Under a microscope” brings to mind “to scrutinize closely”…………..
            Have to get a magnifying glass and check out that angle and also scrutinize possible “keys”!
            Lotta hard work to do in the wood, er, the book………..

          • Pg 130, TTOTC.
            “The printed text is so small that a magnifying glass is needed to read the words. I tried to think of everything.”
            I believe this is a hint to look for text in the book requiring a magnifying glass to see it.
            In tight focus with a word that is key!

        • Seeker…In literature… there are many vehicles used to change up how a writer expresses certain things to the reader. There are many ways to use words that may convey multiple ideas at the same time. Many searchers have claimed that the poem has multiple layers…that need to be solved to glean out the clues/directions. I believe this to a degree…but hold back on the overly complex methodology expressed by many over the years.
          Fenn has gone a few steps further by employing a poem to convey his message. You keep going back to the word “I” and rightly so considering it is the second word of the poem…and makes one ask…who is I ?
          You mentioned several other words that appear to plague many… past/present. I believe there are more than one “important” words in the poem…but one has given me more than a couple of answers to the where.
          I also believe Fenn when he speaks of the subtleties in the “text” in TTOTC. Very vague at best…and hardly noticeable until the hard work is done.

          • Yep Ken “until the hard work is done”.
            IMO there is hard work to be done in regards to the “text” of TTOTC but that wood mean that the searcher would need to delve back into the book and not be able to play with their friends on the blog
            Oh well, have a couple of hours this afternoon where I have to be away from the electronics. (Haha, just hit me what I just said. “Get away from the electronics”, unfortunately I won’t be in the mountains this afternoon) ☹️

          • WG…The TTOTC really has not helped me other than to see part way into Fenn’s head. Figuratively… there is light at the end of that tunnel. Until I made serious progress on “my” possible solve…the book or any of other info available…made little sense at all. The hard part…is sorting through it all and putting in different piles to be sifted through for little sprinkles/trinkets…

        • Just a note… If you read A River Runs Through It (fly fishing in Montana), the author, Maclean, always capitalizes the catch… Rainbow, Brown, Brook, etc.

          • OS2-
            Possibly more importantly, does Forrest capitalize Brown, Rainbow, etc when referring to his catch? Look and see!

  70. I do have to point out that many are using the quote by Forrest in the wrong manner. Even the title of the thread is THE KEY WORD. But look at the quote once more:

    “It is interesting to know that a great number of people are out there searching. Many are giving serious thought to the clues in my poem, but only a few are in tight focus with A WORD THAT IS KEY. The treasure may be discovered sooner than I anticipated.”

    Forrest actually says “a word that is key” not “a key word”. What if the word he is referring to is the word “key” itself? Though not one of the words in the poem—maybe it IS in the poem, hmmm. 🙂

    • Sparo…that is one of the basic errors that continually happens when stories/statements get splattered all over the place…the words get put in the wrong order and mean something other than the intended…

    • Forrest is referring to “a word in the poem that is key.” The word key is not in the poem. It’s simply a practicality to refer to this quote as “the key word”.

      • kinsol—-

        Be careful. Forrest is a wordsmith. What you consider a “practicality:” may not be that at all. Let me give an example, using an old riddle:

        “Railroard crossing, look out for the cars, can you spell that without any “R”s?”

        “Practicality” would tell us—-NO–we cannot spell that sentence without using R’s. But the riddle is actually asking if we can spell “that” without any R’s. And of course, the answer is “yes” because “that” does not contain any “R’s”.

        Now, think of the sentence “a word that is KEY” once more. 🙂

        • Sparrow

          You’ve said that many are using this quote in the wrong manner… however…

          If there’s a word in the poem that has significant meaning to the whereabouts of the location of the treasure, then “many” people would also call that word “key”! and could also
          be right, not wrong in their assumption.

          • kinsol—

            Vert true. When I said “be careful” I really meant not to shut any doors—I really do believe that Forrest is an extremely intelligent person, and knows how to use words in all of their definitions, and in their usage.

            The poem has been “constructed” more than just written, IMO. So whether we look for a word that is key, or look for a key word, we need to leave all avenues open. But I really do understand where you are coming from. All the best in your search!!

      • I’m gonna go with kinsol on the matter of in the poem or the book… The most obvious reasoning would be, if the word is important to be discovered and understood… all the information to find the treasure is in the poem.

        Sparrow, while I agree fenn is witty with his words we still should keep in mind, at least for me, he’s talking about the poem. I would highly doubt that ‘key’ is to represent the ‘legend’ on a map… as some have suggested in the past.

        But in all honesty, have haven’t ruled out the book as holding “A Word” that is key. because the word may be nothing more than a helpful hint, and not a must know to solve the poem.

        I can’t get the last sentence out of my head… If you are “brave” [ to take on a challenge ] and in the “wood” [ the book ] I give you title to the gold [ the title, chase ] There are some very interesting usages to the word.

  71. Quick thought on the word that is key, we know folks had emailed ideas/solutions over the years and ff has shared that first two clues ID’d etc. So, with this in mind the word that is key could be within the stanzas that contain the first two clues, how else would ff arrive at a statement such as only a few are in tight focus, unless the word that is key isn’t in the poem, IIMO. I used to think ‘hidden’ was the word but now I lean toward ‘halt’ as my first choice and ‘waters’ is my second. Is the word magical and unlocks the poem, no, not IMHO.

    • Waters is always a good choice. A plural word… Which automatically give two plausible usages. Such a waters of a river or more than one.
      As far as how fenn knows the word was being thought about…we do know he did / does read some postings. Trying to narrow it down to strictly emails may not help.

      What I think is more important to try and understand is ” A Word ” and not so much the word. Which begs the question is the word helpful or necessary? Or could the word be that important possibility?

      • @seeker re narrow down to email coms, good point, he may have picked up message traffic off the blogs! And, is it that important. Halt sure works under the KISS thinking!

        To the others regarding hidden text,magnification etc. Don’t you have to wonder how the hidden text if there is any got printed without the printers knowledge? IMO

        3 post in one day, I’m done, off to view an Iridium flare at sunset!

        • Cholly, I’m no printer but I can say there are certain printing anomalies in the book, depending on the printing. For example- if everyone here were to look at the photo of the missles flying in the top left quadrant some will find a TINY green circle (about half a mm) with the number 25 inside. It’s grass green color and very precise and distinct (not a vague interpretation of shapes…This is clear precise writing. It’s hard to find at first but once you see it, it can’t be unseen. The only thing is, it’s not in all the books. I have, and have seen several copies of others and found it in 2 of 7-8. I don’t see how it could be a typo, or leftover ink as it’s lighter than the surrounding black sky. Am.i saying it’s a clue? No. But it does pay claim to the precision and detail of heat offset printing…And the degree of detail those printers are capable of printing…At a rather costly price if one didn’t have a specific purpose of for needing them. When I researched the printer in the colophon it appears to be the only printer that had these capabilities in NM. The binding company he used also did printing only not that specific type of machine at the time. It’s certainly interesting he’d foot the cost of shipping all those books to a different printer and binder…At least to me it is. And I’m sure if everyone checks they’re pics carefully for the pin head sized green 25 several will be able to confirm what I’m saying. Again, the 25 may be a mistake or printing error sure…NOT SAYING ITS A CLUE….Just the fact that the printer is capable of producing such finite nuances in detail and tint may suggest he used it for a reason that wasn’t immeadietly apparent to the person feeding the data into the machine. Only something to consider like that kinda stuff there’s a few more in there.

  72. Timothy –

    “what state are you dealing with? I promise I won’t follow you.”

    I’m in MT. It’s the only state I will search and for many reasons. 🙂

    “I believe the KEY word is not in the poem, how about anyone else?”

    I believe that the word that is “key” is in the poem.

    Lugnutz –

    “They never say what the “key” word is or what the first clue is or where they’re looking. Or whatever they’re banking about. They go out in the spring to a place that’s been searched before. Usually many times before. They disappear.”

    Seriously Lug? You would expect a searcher who has evidence to say what the “key” word is or what the first clue is so that you can decide if it seems logical to you? There wouldn’t be any thrill for you or any other searcher if the answers were just handed to you. IMO f has given us all fair footing to start with and you can choose to use the tools as you wish. While it’s not an easy task, it is workable and will be proven at some point, (hopefully in 2017). 🙂

    • HMA,
      Do you get why many are skeptical?
      Some come on the blog and uses words like, “who has evidence” States the chest will be found, even IF they add there’s a slight possibility, maybe not.
      Tells us fenn has given us all a fair footing and uses that as their brilliant opinion, when fenn ‘has’ stated everyone has “the same opportunity”

      What is really the point of say how grand next year will be and the chest will have a new location?
      I mean, one searcher has to down to “within 12′ ” but for some unknown reason can’t seem to find the time to go and play fetch…. tis the season!

      Seriously, if for some reason it’s not located, will we hear about another great and powerful epiphany on the trip home and in 2018 it will be found for sure… excitement aside… it’s ego gloating 101.

      • Seeker –

        “Do you get why many are skeptical?
        Some come on the blog and uses words like, “who has evidence” States the chest will be found, even IF they add there’s a slight possibility, maybe not.
        Tells us fenn has given us all a fair footing and uses that as their brilliant opinion, when fenn ‘has’ stated everyone has “the same opportunity””

        Forrest himself has reserved the right to be wrong on occasion and since we are all human I would think that we all have to err on the side of caution by saying that there is the slightest possibility that the chest may not be found in 2017. I think it’s a very slight chance though! 🙂 There is evidence in the poem and the book that will knock your socks off. It might even cause some knee jerk reactions that will cause them to kick themselves after spotting a clue or hint. A good slap upside the head will suffice also!

        When I said we all have been given fair footing, it’s the same as you stating “the same opportunity”. You can slice that however you want, but it doesn’t change things.

        “What is really the point of say how grand next year will be and the chest will have a new location?
        I mean, one searcher has to down to “within 12′ ” but for some unknown reason can’t seem to find the time to go and play fetch…. tis the season!”

        Seeker, I unlike some other folks have hope. That hope along with insight equals a great chance that the chest will be found in 2017. Time will tell and my advice to other searchers it to keep plugging along because at some point there may be someone else who understands what f has been putting down. It would be difficult for him to be more obvious with the information that he has given us. It’s just a matter of how you look at it and process it. As far as someone picking up the chest at this time of year, you should know better. Not only has f warned against searching during the winter, he has told us that snow is a searcher’s worst enemy. I could also add the danger factor due to the weather. It’s just not the best idea to “stomp” around in the snow.

        “Seriously, if for some reason it’s not located, will we hear about another great and powerful epiphany on the trip home and in 2018 it will be found for sure… excitement aside… it’s ego gloating 101.”

        I don’t think you or anyone else will have to worry about it not being found. I’m still working on boosting my confidence, however I know of at least one other searcher who has reached a level that will walk to the chest……………

        • Hear me,
          It’s interesting that you say you are working on boosting your confidence…………I spent a little time in TTOTC this afternoon and I was reading My War For Me ,f said somewhere, I’m not sure at the moment where, that if you don’t read anything else read that story, he’s very proud of that story (paraphrasing). A few things jumped out at me, one was this sentence “Confidence can only come with knowledge and training, although a good ego helps.” Pg. 83 bottom of the page
          How does this tie in with a searcher going with “confidence”?
          Obviously we need certain knowledge and having a good ego is on us, but what about the training? How do we train? I think I might understand a little bit, anyone else have thoughts?

          • I would say the training part builds confidence as skill is developed . I am a mason of 27 years and would say those things go hand in hand . What can be intriguing is forrest statement that it is not who you are but who they think you are . Many people assume it has to do with a false personna generated by the individual . It seems more what forrest is talking about is that people have character assassination done to them all the time by people or groups of people .And he is gonna change what has be falsely said about him . No doubt the archeology community thinks forrest is a plunderer just as the FBI thought he was a thief as he had too many collectables not to be . What the FBI thought of forrest mattered a whole lot as his property was taken from him and he had to fight in court to get it back . Now have any of the FBI Geniuses been able to find forrests treasure ? NOT ! As people think the FBI is smarter than they really are and what people think they are is what matters . I have solved Zodiac Killer Letters that FBI had not been able too for decades and been met with some strange reactions .

          • Hey Ya….heya! You still into Zodiak? I’d love to look over a connection with some things with a like minded individual. Talked a bit with Kim Rossmo but still trying to hammer out a few details more clearly before presenting it. I’d love some thoughts/feedback/partner in crime for the project.

            Skinmittens at aol

          • Jonsey , my email isn’t hard to find . Do you agree with my 340 translations ? I have more , much more .

        • Thank you for sharing that! I love the soundtrack to the newest version of that movie. I’ve never watched that version of Annie, can’t place that actress, but it I’ve seen that dog elsewhere. Maybe Shaggy DA?

  73. All,
    We (self and kids) have recently focused on the word “precisely” as we consider tentative identifications for the locations of the 9 clues; however, we conclude that “precisely” is not the “word that is key” that F had in mind. We think that the “word that is key” is indeed in the poem, and that a focus on that word will help searchers to understand whatever pattern might be found in the 9 clues.
    Happy New Year, everyone!
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

  74. Geoff Idaho –

    You and the kids are wise to discount “precisely” as the word that is key. When you do find the word that is key, it will make perfect sense and you will probably want to have a party with your kids. It really is that big!

  75. How about “treasures” being a word that is key? It is the longest word, it also has 9 letters, hints of riches new and old, is currently alone in a secret place. Oh, its also bold.

  76. WyMustIgo –

    “How about “treasures” being a word that is key? It is the longest word, it also has 9 letters, hints of riches new and old, is currently alone in a secret place. Oh, its also bold.”

    Treasures is not the word that I see as key. I will say that the word that is key is not one of the words in the poem but is in the poem. I know that sounds odd but that’s what I see.

    • I find the word “secret” interesting. It spells “terces” backwards and “Terces” has something to do with Morse Code. IMHO.
      Happy New Year!

  77. Hear Me All—-

    I agree with your second paragraph 100%. It does sound odd, but it absolutely true. IMO of course. 🙂

  78. I think clue 9 is the end. The word is definitely key if you fing it. End of year has come so fast. Thanks to all for the entertainment and pleasure you have shared with all.

    Cheers to 2017!

  79. “some folks correctly mentioned the first two clues to me in an email and then they went right past the other seven, not knowing that they had been so close”. said Forrest Fenn…

    It’s POSSIBLE that the “key” word surrounds the 3rd clue in the poem, considering if you get the first and the second clues correct, you’re very probably ahead of the crowd on your solve (according to Forrest’s comments above), and thus, the all important 3rd clue has that much more relative meaning and could be considered “key” to solving the mystery.

    One still has to wonder though, whether the “few” who “are in tight focus with a word that is key” know that they’re hot on the trail?

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