Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt Part Fourteen…

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612 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt Part Fourteen…

  1. Forrest will be on a syndicated and podcast travel radio program LIVE on July 16th, Saturday morning at about 8:18am, Santa Fe time. The show is called Rudy Maxa’s World With The Careys. I am told you can listen to it live on Tunein. After the fact it seems to be available many places, Look up Rudy Maxa’s World… or try one of these links:

    For the live feed on Saturday morning go here:

    For other info go here:

    I also see that the podcast will be available on Monday here:

    Rudy has more outlets than Beyonce..

    • Hello Dal. Thank you for giving the podcast link. I won’t be able to hear the interview live, but will listen to it upon my return.

        • I don’t know how many times, or if it matters. The host said “buried” first (as they all do) and then Forrest repeated it, so (like the others) easily could be nothing.

          • Hello Jeremy P. I do find it interesting. In the past, he has corrected the hosts for saying “buried,” but he didn’t with this interview. It’s true that hidden and buried have similar meanings. We tend to think that buried is “underground,” whereas, hidden is away from one’s view. Yes, being “buried” is “hidden” from one’s view, too. Is it a mistake? I do believe it’s our decision to listen to him carefully. All eyes and ears are upon him. 🙂

        • Buried can mean the same as hidden. At this point, I’m sure it is “buried” in the unknown details of the poem. Once somebody “uncovers” the path to the TC, itso location will no longer be “buried”. I think the confusion is in the definitions. It seems that Fenn wants us to understand that the TC may or may not be covered up.

  2. Has anyone notice what Forrest Fenn and Doug Scott the waterfall guy have in common besides waterfalls & both are writers.

  3. 14th sub on the odds and ends, does that mean IM even on the odds ?? or 14th on the 14th.

  4. I knew you would come back, Odds n Ends.
    I missed you so much & just want to let you know how much I love you.
    Please don’t disappear like that again.

  5. Does anyone think we should focus on F’s epitaph?
    “I wish I could have lived to do, the things I was attributed to”.
    Seems to me most are focusing on the adventures f had not the ones he wished he had. IMO of course.

    • Everything else Forrest says seems to have meaning so I think you are right. Maybe not as a clue to the solve but at least as a reference of some sort to the hunt.

      One thing this could mean might be that Forrest wishes he could be a part of a treasure hunt like the one he’s made for the rest of us. That Indiana Jones spirit, you know. But with Forrest, so many things seem to have more than just one meaning.

      • Yes, BB.. a reference to some sort of “hunt”, exactly!
        Like the thrill of the chase, or being chased. What was f attributed to doing?
        That is the question, I think.
        Maybe “the thrill of the chase ” has another meaning.

    • I like his comment about “being who they think you are” in the context of “don’t go where an 80 year old man wouldn’t go”. I think there’s a hint in there.

  6. “Odds n Ends” – To me it is “ODD” that in the line, “The END is ever drawing nigh;” Forrest uses the word “EVER” – a definition can be, “More than once.” Why would the “END” be getting closer more than once?

    Just something to think about.

    Good luck to ALL searchers and may you EVER try to STAY SAFE


    • Hey JD
      There is always the possibility that the end is near when you look down but you can’t reach it so you have to start looking around to find away that f did reach it and go that way, Hence the end is ever drawing nign, again.

    • JD, Forrest commented to a searcher once and I always remembered it because the word was in the poem and he gave his definition of the word. The searcher asked a question which included the word ever. And Forrest replied, ever as in eventually.

      Hope this helps JD

      I also like Samsmiths response below of slowly appearing.

      • DPT – In my main solve,…that “eventually” interpretation works perfectly. Thank you for that! I applied this line as follows:

        “From there it’s no place for the meek,
        The end is ever drawing nigh”

        Since the first line in this solve (for me) is:

        Begin (The Madison River) where warm waters halt (at Madison Junction)…

        Then later:

        “Put in below the home of Brown” (along The Madison River)

        The “From there” (for me) is still “below the home of Brown”,…along the Madison River,…and per this sign,…that is “no place for the meek” (below Hebgen Dam in the Madison Canyon Earthquake Area) with the end “eventually” drawing nigh (the Madison River at Quake Lake OR if the dam fails,…the REAL end!):


      • Thanks DPT,
        Somethings, you will never forget.
        I will go with what your saying here & seems to me the word is “ever” & not never.
        That tells me Forrest definition makes sense.

    • JD- in my solve, we can not ever reach the end even though it is “ever drawing nigh”.

  7. JD

    Just something to think about.

    The words “ever drawing” can be interpreted as ‘slowly appearing’.


    The words “ever drawing” can be interpreted as ‘coming near’.

    Maybe both, depending upon your perspective.

    • Really Sam?!… Alternative usages of meanings In A poem?? That doesn’t seem straightforwards to me… lol… What happened to easy and not complicated? But not necessarily in that order.

      Sorry bud… just have some fun. “slowly appearing” I like that one. That can bring a new perspective to ‘look quickly down’
      hmmmm. Oh By they way. Did ya happen to see today’s WW?

      • Isn’t it MW as in Mysterious Writings?

        The POEM can be straightforward, looking for alternate definitions does not make it less straight forward, in my opinion.


        • WW ~ “Weekly Word”

          Weekly words for July 15th, 2016 are as follows:

          *Be mindful of nature and your health, but not in that order. f

          • Hey Seeker – Didn’t you get the memo??? Odds and End is for introducing extraneous subjects only. Did you know there is a thread for Jenny’s site?

            You’re welcome Dal and Goofy. 🙂

            p.s. Just a friendly reminder,…it’s good to be back here with you. 🙂

      • Ain’t nuttin’ easy, Seeker. You should know. lol

        Saw WW, yep, I did, I did.

        I got nuttin’ tho. Movin’ rite along here.

        Ya cain’t hep it I know, ya just ain’t rite thar boy, ya just ain’t rite.

        Big Jack knows. lol

        • Big Jack tol’ me ta think rite.

          Come ta think o’it, I mite back up some.

          Sounds ta me, f mite be sayin’ ta be careful like.

          Sumthin’ could be back’ards, or look behind’ja?

    • I personally think it means eventually coming. But, I don’t think we ever reach “the end”

  8. Good insight – and yes, either interpretation could be correct. Only the “Finder” and Forrest know for sure.


    • Morn JD
      Just wanted to know if you are still on for trekking on the 22nd?

      If so, please be safe and best of luck on your search.
      By the way, you never did answer me when you ss
      aid you have a new direction and it’s not Wyoming. Then what state might I ask is it?

      • Sorry you missed it – I said that I am STILL searching in Wyoming – NOT in YNP. I have NEVER changed my site. I have been locked into it for the past three/four months. I have made 6 trips to this same general site…modified by less than 1/2 mile over the past 4 months.

        Sorry you were mislead.

        YUP – YUO one week from today we head out.


  9. Subbing play for work. Hi ho hi hi back to work I go. Tan from the sun and a whole lot of fun. With my BOTG many curiosities found. But my thrills don’t pay the bills so back down from the hills until Benjamin can call me onward.

    • Hey Ace
      That wasn’t bad. Change the last word to Home and you will have something..

  10. so many odds and ends….still not sure if treasure buried or not, still not sure what wet means exactly in this case….how can a treasure not be stumbled upon if not buried but still open to the elements of rain snow and forest fire?…

        • jerry and decall – Thank you, decall! A picture says a thousand words….

          I think ff carried one of those flat rocks on the wall in that picture I posted to his potential hidey hole and dug a cache and put the rock on top. That way he could judge how the weight felt in his backpack ion the uphill…and have the cache all ready to put the gold and jewels in first,…and then the bronze box on the second treasure hiding trip. Then he didn’t need a shovel when he took his two trips from his car on the final visit.

          • jerry and decall – And again I quote ff:

            “How can anything be in the Rocky Mountains and not be wet,” he said. “Even if it were buried six feet deep, it would still be wet. That’s not a real clue.”

            Yep,…water would get in under that rock. Well,…unless it was a “tarry scant”,…and he sealed it with pine pitch tar. Get it?:

            “tarry scant” = flat rock covered with tar.

            But if he used pine tar,…that might heat up things a bit,…when the FOREST FIRE came through. But still,…I think the bronze chest would survive it underground.

            Caution: Don’t try this yourself in a forest fire. Read this book and you’ll know why I said that:


    • 1) buried? – Not unless being in the water counts as buried.
      2) Wet – being IN a stream to me is WET!
      3) Not stumbled on – Hard to stumble over something in the water, unless you are fishing.

      Just my opinion – I will know on the 23rd.

      Best of luck to you and TRY to STAY SAFE


      • JD – This may help you:


        And avid searchers detail his every word. In one recent video interview, Fenn described the treasure as being “wet” and many assumed it was hidden in a river or waterfall, and that was new information.

        It wasn’t.

        “How can anything be in the Rocky Mountains and not be wet,” he said. “Even if it were buried six feet deep, it would still be wet. That’s not a real clue.”

        • The reason I feel that it is IN a stream are as follows:

          “As I have gone alone IN there…”
          “There’ll be no paddle up your creek, JUST heavy loads and water high.”

          Where is “IN THERE”? by figuring out some of the clues, I am led to a particular creek or stream.

          “JUST” means “only”, so (to me) Forrest is saying that there will be no paddles in the creek JUST (only) the TC (Heavy Loads) and water high (The creek or stream).

          Putting these two together I feel that I must look IN there (my stream or creek) for the TC NOT AT the stream, but IN the stream.

          Just my opinion – I will know soon.


          • JD – To me “alone in there” means the area that was special to Forrest for fly fishing. I am looking for the bronze chest in the forest fen area surrounding my solution to that creek,…but not in it. Or it could be on an island in the middle of it…

            Hee hee hee….

          • JD – And here’s my thought on these two:

            “heavy loads” (sediment coming down that creek or drag on a fly fishing line)

            “water high” (alpine springs, alpine lakes and snow melt)

          • Thanks for your input E* – you have been at this FAR longer than have I. I guess that it is a “CHASE” because we each read each line differently. Good luck in your search and TRY to STAY SAFE

            Good ideas though, IF I fail on the 23rd.


          • Just be sure you don’t go too deep for three year olds. I have to listen to the interview again but I think he said that he was sure that the chest had gotten wet as an eventuality.

  11. OFF TOPIC… Big News… A member from Chase Chat has informed me that Randy Bilieu’s remains may have been located! I hope f, Dal, or Goofy can shed light on this where appropriate. I will keep my source private, but this person is reliable.

    • Thanks Slurbs;

      I am sure that if true, this will be welcome news to the family.

      Let us know more, if you learn more.

      We ALL must TRY to STAY SAFE


  12. Well the family can put him to rest. I think of him a lot. It was a sad thing for me as I watched the search unfold. It caused me to pull back from my chase. God Bless everyone. Especially all who searched so hard. Thanks so much. Lou Lee Belle

  13. Has anyone heard about ancient cliff dwelling peoples using signals of reflected light over nontrivial distances to signal their allies/friends? Relatedly, IMO after the invention of the sheepeater’s reverse curve bow it became possible to have more secure camps on both sides of some steeper canyons. This could mean that a “blaze” may be on one side of a canyon and the TC and a point dwelling on the opposite side.

    • mensan_fennsan – In Cameron, Montana,…at the beginning of my search,…I was looking at a website for Sun West Ranch,…a newer housing development across the Madison River from Sun Ranch. They had an extensive description (which is no longer there) about how a Medicine Wheel at Sun Ranch was used for ceremonies,…and communications were done between those at the ceremony and those over on the other side of the river (but they didn’t specify what method was used). This is from a USFS Conservation link for Sun Ranch:

      “The Ranch is rich in prehistoric and historic resources. A
      medicine wheel is located on the ranch and evidence of
      prehistoric human occupation is evident in teepee rings and other artifacts.”

      Based on the description I read back then,…this squarish looking plateau in the bluff area of the Ranch (but I can’t see it in Satellite View – can you?):


    • Or the possibility of 2 blazes, one a reflection of the other. Would explain distance from chest to blaze comment, as in the distance between the 2.

  14. Buried treasure. Our culture automatically adds the word buried when we speak of hidden treasure. buried is synonymous with the word treasure.
    We rarely say sunken treasure and never flying treasure.
    Until a whole bunch of clues are solved, it doesn’t really matter too much if it is buried or not.

    • Melanie, I haven’t heard anything new yet. I was going to head out on a search in hopes of getting to the end of my solve. The plan was to meet with my informant, but my search has been postponed for at least a few days. I expect that something will come out on the local news in the next couple of days. To find more info I suggest checking Randy’s ex-wife’s web page about the search for Randy. I do not have a link to do so. I get sad thinking about our loss of Randy. Please make any further comments in a Search for Randy chapter on this site.

    • Don’t understand your point(s), Jake. Would you care to
      explain or add to your message that reads in full
      “Just golden & a rainbow high.” ?

    • Forrest is entertaining. I come away learning that for as much as I’ve learned in my lifetime, there’s still a whole lot more to learn.
      That’s a good thing. 🙂

  15. Looking for some hints in the last few lines of the poem, for example tarry scant and marvel gaze become starry cant and gravel maze. “Listen good”; you can get: “is to log end”. Also “leave my trove”; you can get: “my revel ovate”. Anybody else have any good info on this?

    • You got “revel ovate” out of leave my trove?… as in “enjoy oneself in a lively and noisy way”… with… an egg? How’d you settle on that one?

      • Jeremy- trying some anagrams at end of poem to find the chest. I do have a picture from my search area with a knar shaped like an egg! And if im not mistaken forrest as a child was watching gypsies dancing around. I know i’m close!

        • How about “Effort will be”? What directions do you see? I see “Left below fir”!

          • Why not “brief owl left” or “tribe well off” or “fire bowl left”? Anagramming will send you down a lot of rabbit holes…

          • They dont work everywhere in the poem, and you can rule out some based on the location. Ive got only one rabbit hole to search!

  16. You’ve probably heard that Forrest was a guest on the Rudy Maxa Radio/Podcast Show on Saturday morning (yesterday July 16th). Rudy’s show is a travel show and Forrest was interviewed over the phone. I posted the portion that contains the interview with Forrest on the Media Coverage page. There are a lot of other interesting media interviews with Forrest on that page as well. The Rudy Maxa interview is on the top of the list when you get to the page. You can find the Media Coverage page here:


    • Thank you Dal for keeping us updated with all the information as it comes out.
      I did notice that the interviewer said buried and Forrest followed up saying buried as well. Curious Forrest didn’t correct him so I’m wondering if it was buried how would that give away a clue?

  17. This whole deal about FF going along with “buried”….
    C’MON, people! The poor man is SO sick of correcting interviewers he’s just letting it go now. He’s done it tired and now he’s weak, darn it!

    • I agree with that. I would have stopped correcting it long ago and let people assume what they want. I’ve done a few speeches in front of people and I’m always amazed at the mistakes I make that are pointed out after I’m done. I would have bet my life that I didn’t say it, but the tape doesn’t lie.

      Give the guy a break and appreciate that at 85 he can still do a decent interview and only make a few mistakes. It’s probably better than 95% of us could do.

    • melanie,

      Lets look at this from another perspective… while I heard an intro from the interviewer saying buried treasure, I dismiss fenn not correcting him as usual for the fact this was a phone conversation, and fenn may not have heard this. Yet you have to agree that later on said he ‘buried’ the treasure. what is interesting… He has always said he never wanted to give that as a clue.

      Here’s a WhatIf… is buried an actual clue? No I’m not talking about the chest. however, what was the key reason fenn started this in the first place?
      I have seen searcher pick apart every word fenn says. I have to wonder, IF he actually gives a very important piece of thought / info, would we actually see it. And if we do, will we understand it correctly?

      Buried vs hidden has been a hot topic since day one… but only seen as the chest itself in those conversations. It does make me wonder about how buried can be thought of in relation to the poem and not so much the chest.

      • Hi Seeker. As to your “What If”….you make a good point. And I can tell you this: the correct solve sure is “buried” in the poem!

    • I don’t think it was only Fenn himself that was “tired” and “weak” in the poem. “I” was tired and weak also and that is a very big hint in my opinion. But I do think Fenn is tired of correcting folks. The word “buried” does not necessarily mean covered up physically by something. It can just mean hidden. So why does everyone focus on that word anyway? I don’t think it matters whether he says buried or hidden or something else. If we can understand the poem, it will lead to the TC.

    • I noticed that too. What do you think he meant to say? Anyone can mistate a word or phrase but he obviously meant to say something.

    • It’s one of the reasons I don’t like the abbreviation YNP: it’s ambiguous, and living in CA I always see it as Yosemite.

        • Puzzled – Was it you I was talking with,…when I was searching for the Miwok Elder,…to discuss getting past My Grizz “in the Wood”?

          • Yes. But I don’t understand. Are you talking abt grizzlies? How will a Miwok elder help?

          • Puzzled – See: National Geographic Traveler October 2013 “America’s Cathedrals” by Mark Jenkins interviewing a Miwok tribal elder about their “bear bretheren”. They believe the Grizzes to be their relatives,…and do bear shaman ceremonies:


            The Northern Sierra and Plains Miwok called bear doctors sulik müko. These shamans donned, bearskins, but, like their Yuki colleagues, had bears as spirits and exhibited their powers publicly. Like the Yokuts bear doctors, they were thought able to transform themselves bodily into bears.

          • Are you talking about getting past a grizzly while out searching for the TC? Why not use a basic method such as bear spray, or take someone else with ylu who has experience with grizzlies

          • Was just reading the May 2016 issue of National Geo. The whole issue is about Yellowstone. On page 143, it talks about about how the Oglala Sioux revere the Grizz. Here it is:

            “A man named Reuben Fast Horse, representing the Oglala Sioux Tribe, walked to the podium carrying a small drum. His longish dark hair was pushed back behind his ears. He adjusted the microphone, took off his glasses, and began speaking in Lakota, one of the Sioux dialects. All the white people listened raptly. Occasionally we caught a word—“Europeans.” Fast Horse spoke for three minutes, his speech musical but utterly incomprehensible to most of us, then came to an end point and said: “Don’t worry, the rest will be in English.”

            He read a statement from the president of the tribe, expressing strong opposition by the Oglala Sioux Tribal Council to delisting the grizzly (from endangered status). This statement noted a relationship with the bear “that has existed from time immemorial,” and stressed that the tribe “recognizes the grizzly as a relative, a healer and a teacher of our people, as exemplified in narratives related to our ancestors.” Fast Horse added some words of his own, explaining that his Lakota people “never ate or hunted bear” anymore because, when they originally had, “the skeletal remains looked too human, too close to ourselves.” Then he lifted his drum and his stick, played a strong cadence, and sang a bear song in Lakota.”

          • Puzzled – I read that whole May 2016 issue a few weeks ago,…now how did I miss THAT??? Thank you! 🙂

            My barista here is 1/2 Lakota Sioux,…I’ll see if he has a nice, burly relative who likes to hike, knows how to use bear spray, and has a day pack to carry the bronze chest (because I will be carrying the loot in mine, and I don’t want to make two trips!). But I still have hopes that Bart the Bear 2 will be my Search Buddy…

            I read that issue a few weeks ago,… that’s how I found Fan Creek as a “below the home of Brown” (@ the YNP border) for my Gallatin River solve,…because of an article I read in there. Fly fishermen and river rafters like to “put in” there apparently. The rafters end up right at my “A River Runs Through It” hidey spot,…when there is “water high” on the Gallatin.

            Fan Creek = “your creek”? We are all ff’s fans…

          • Puzzled – I remembered the speech by Reuben Fast Horse in Lakota,…but not the part about the Grizz delisting etc. I must have been interrupted and lost my place…

            Thanks again! 🙂

          • melanie – Thanks again for that National Geo article info,…I just noticed it was you and not Puzzled who posted it. I really appreciate you typing all that text here for me! 🙂

  18. I found the following oddly fitting with regards to The Chase…

    It is never my custom to use words lightly. If twenty-seven years in prison have done anything to us, it was to use the silence of solitude to make us understand how precious words are and how real speech is in its impact on the way people live and die. -Nelson Mandela, activist, South African president, Nobel laureate (18 Jul 1918-2013)

    Credit for this goes to wordsmith.org from a word.a.day subscription. After all, he did go ALONE in there!

  19. There’s a new surprise words up. It’s interesting how Forrest shows us that words that seemingly contradict actually make perfect sense.

    Posted on July 17, 2016 by Jenny Kile

    Mr Fenn,

    A blog is making a big deal about you liking to be alone. Your poem says, “As I have gone alone in there.” The final chapters in several books say something like “…alone with only my thoughts…”

    I recently read that you frequently sit in the shade alone for hours and water your trees. Is being alone some kind of weird thing with you Mr fenn, or what? Sally McIntosh

    That practice does not suffer a sinister side Sally, It’s just that I enjoy the solitude and the company. f

    • Dal,
      After further research on this site, it appears the listing of people are from only 6 states: Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico & Texas.
      It appears this site is an example or mock up. it wasn’t created too long ago.
      I also looked up the whois & the email at MIT does not work but the phone does & appeared to sound like Martin. The mailbox was full.
      I sent multiple email messages to some of the folk listed there on the map but no answer yet.
      Dal, how did you find this site?

      • I like it Martin & thanks.
        This probably should have been done a long time ago.
        I have a few areas I have searched & would like to share on the map, considering I didn’t find it.
        When do you think it will be up & running?

  20. What would you guys give the over/under or hi/lo that the “bracelet” isn’t really even a “bracelet” at all and it’s just another fennism or something? Say you open the chest and it’s really a hermit crab shell or a snail shell or whatever kind of bracelet….would you give it back right away? or taunt him and rib his spine a bit first?

      • @jonsey1
        Yes Jonsey1 I would return anything that forredt wanted up to the box. He could ask me for all of the gold and I would give it to him no questions asked, but the Romania Box is something that I would like for my personal collection. 3 Dimensional boxes are for and few apart. I have already told this to my wife and she is ok with it.
        Good luck with the future
        Timothy A.

        • Do you think it’s a Romania Box for a book of days certainly? Or maybe a sassafrass lined old tea chest? When I first read that he thought it may have contained a book of days was when I first thought of how neat it would be to get to smell it….so you could know for sure and all.

  21. So no one has found this fabled treasure.still… I’ve lost focus… and that website just pulls up Google maps for me… but hey, I’m still working on MAPS… heh…

  22. In Scrapbook 53, A comment that Forrest writes about pointing her radiator toward Montana has me wondering if this could be a WWWH? You drive and stop somewhere. Thoughts…..

  23. Just feeling generous with the fengshui and thought I might share a bit (related to the recent surprise words/alone) I have a feeling F and “Sally McIntosh” might like to water the MayApple…also known as the Mandrake (like the dragon fly too)Eric Sloane drew him a nice ‘Mandrake’ that he included in one of his books as well. Here’s some good ole’ MayApple / Mandrake infothat helped me with my search 🙂

    Mayapple: Harbinger of Spring

    Horticulture Administrator
    Country dwellers might want to pay attention to and preserve one of our woodland East Texas natives, the Mayapple, Podophyllum peltatum. It is sometimes called Devil’s apple, hog apple, Indian apple or umbrella plant.

    In the Tyler area the Mayapple starts appearing almost overnight in very early March in undisturbed, well drained, hardwood woodlands. Height is 6-18″ and they grow in large patches. Each single stalk is topped with one or two broad, deeply divided leaves that resemble umbrellas. The mature two-leaved plants frequently produce a white, or rarely pink, waxy flower at the V where the two leaves join the stem. A few weeks after flower formation in April the flower develops into a yellow apple-like berry that later ripens. By the end of June the plant has completely disappeared.

    Mayapples colonize by rhizomes. Propagation is by seed or root division while dormant. It is not commonly available in the general nursery trade but if obtained from a specialty nursery in a pot, buy a good thick pot. Divide the roots gently to make several plants and put them in a small drift several feet apart to multiple in a wooded sloping hardwood forest.

    The rhizomes are processed and used in some medications but the plant is considered toxic except for the berry. I’d wear gloves to plant Mayapples.

    The delight of this little native is in the overnight appearance of massive green groundcover on the forest floor under deciduous trees at a time when the landscape is mostly brown tree trunks and brown leaves. Don’t mow it and don’t destroy it. Don’t plant other flowers among them as they like to be alone.

    Sandy Wilson, Smith County Master Gardener intern
    Texas AgriLife Extension Service

    ***You can go a step further and find the lovely leavein TTOTC drawings too.

    -skinmittens 🙂

    • Speaking of apples…Gaspard wanted to be buried at home behind his barn under an apple tree. His friend, Mr. Waters, assisted in making this happen as the ground was frozen and had to be thawed with the help of the Pueblo people. He was exhumed by his widow when she remarried and reburied in a Taos cemetary. Interesting story.

      • Interesting….I had understood some of the details of this heirloom story differently…probably depends on who’s version one is reading and which card table it was written from. May I ask where you got that version?

        • I read the information from an old blog ‘Whatsablaze’. Some old newspaper articles were posted describing Forrest buying the mansion along with some history of Gaspard’s estate.

          • FennShui-
            He bought the Gaspard House in Taos and turned it into a second Fenn Gallery. But it didn’t do well enough and Forrest sold it later.

  24. ..I never to underestimate the power of any form of umbrella. Like. A. Boss.
    Just kidding
    …..but umbrellas are pretty sweet. And so are Mayapples. And so is F. A flat out bud to us all

  25. If only I could tie it all up at the with a rain delay and a pitcher plant….that’s be a great ballgame to even Micky Mantle himself. Lol. Back to.the voices in my head now…

  26. I believe that the Mountain Laurel that Forrest refers to in ‘Tea with Olga’ has a purple flower and the smell is a strong grape flavor like Grapette soda. Mr. Fenn’s favorite.

    • Does he still enjoy it the same? Sometimes I picture him more thirsty for just a plain old Coke now that the days of Tarzan and sugarbeets are behind him. What a neat ‘non hint’ question I’d love to hear the answer too…when his last sip of grapette was and if he kept the cap 🙂 . I’m a junky for that type of nostalgia, and he’s probably too busy for those types of curiosities anyhow. Fun to imagine though…

  27. There will be a story about the Chase tomorrow in the Billings Gazette. When Forrest told the reporter that about seventy years ago he sold that paper on the streets of West Yellowstone the guy had a good laugh…

  28. All,
    What is the best for gps coords?
    Degrees minutes seconds, decimal degrees, utm..
    What about Nad 27 or 88 or wgs 84…
    There are so many choices on my handheld. Does anyone have recommendations? Thanks in advance!

    • JDiggins: It depends on the application. The most common geoid used today in the U.S. is WGS-84 — for instance, all astronomy work assumes WGS-84. However, many (most?) topo maps are NAD-27, so if you’re trying to navigate to a specific coordinate on a topo map, you would want to set your GPS to NAD-27.

      The choice of coordinate format is mostly personal preference. I use Google Earth and Google Maps a lot, and I find it faster to enter coordinates in decimal format. However, when I’m out searching for meteorites, I prefer to use degrees and decimal minutes when recording/reporting find coordinates or waypoints. I almost never use degrees, minutes and seconds for points on the ground (but that is the only format I use for astronomical coordinates).

      UTM with its easting and northing is no doubt popular with cartographers, but cumbersome for general use. That said, all topos have UTM coordinate grids on them, so if you’re working heavily with topographical maps you may find it convenient to set your GPS in UTM coordinate mode.

  29. Ok boys and girls how is the treasure hunt going? Any progress, Dal? Maybe a little progress update! Everytime that I say I’m out something drags me back in. I feel like Mark Howard :). Well let’s see it’s been 19 trips for me…I found out about the treasure quest late in 2013 and took my first trek in June of 2014 a little over 2 years ago.

    • Ed-
      I don’t know how it’s going! I don’t even know where I am right now!

      But you could take a poll and ask. I’ll bet you’d get 437 responses from folks who believe they know where it is and are about to go get it (no two places would be the same). I bet you would get another couple of thousand responses from people saying they are confused and have no idea where to begin.
      This sounds about the same as it’s sounded since the first summer of the chase.

      JD seems to believe he might be coming back with it. E* has all the clues worked out but doesn’t have the money to go get it. Jake seems to always be on the cusp. The little girl from India has the first two clues worked out. Someone is lining up the stars with Rainbow Point and drawing tangents based on the magnetic declination of Santa Fe. Zivia has discovered that Forrest actually wrote the poem in Hebrew and what we are looking at is simply an English translation. Cynthia has walked every square foot of northern New Mexico and is now walking her way west along the border in Colorado. More than a few have figured out that if you listen to the recording of Forrest reading the poem backwards you can hear Charles Manson claiming to be Lucifer.

      Personally…my money is on Goofy…no one knows where or when he is out looking, but he reads everything on the blog and has encyclopedic knowledge of the things Forrest has said since the beginning.

      • Dal – I agree. Because I think Goofy is Yoda. Do you need a search buddy, Goofy? I think I can run faster than you….

      • Hi Dal. Imo…It will be a wise person who finds the treasure. Won’t be the ones shouting out their locations on the blogs. Imo it will be the quiet ones. I think Forrest feels this way too. It’s funnnny he said no more clues. But yet he has given us a few more IMO. Happy hunting everyone.

      • Thanks Dal,
        On the cusp of reality is more like it.
        Don’t forget Goofy has the Ouija Board mouse pad. I am sure that will get him closer to the crescent.

      • OFF TOPIC

        Dal and Goofy – When I select Key Word from the Searchers Discussions,…it takes me to the closed Key Word One. Then selected Key Word Archives,…and it takes me to the closed Key Word One also. Are you working on the Key Word thread,…creating a new file maybe???

        Thank you. 🙂

        • Dal and Goofy – You can run but you can’t hide,…little Key Word thread,…not from ME,…anyway! 😉

          The problem still exists,..but the current Key Word thread came up from a comment link I had to it in another thread,…and I was able to post a reply to it.

        • Goofy – Did an entire discussion we had here yesterday disappear (especially Iron Will’s post on Land Trust info)…or maybe it was moved to another thread???? I only see a few replies from it.

          Thank you for your help! 🙂

          • Goofy – So Sorry! Nevermind! (as Gilda Radner used to say). I got lost here on Odds and Ends…like I’m EVER going to find the bronze chest if I keep doing THAT!!!! 😉

            Jake Faulker on July 23, 2016 at 10:43 am said:

            I think that conversation was over on The Nine Clues page.

      • OM gosh, Dal, that paragraph is a classic. If it were a shoe I would bronze it and put it on my mantle. Love your sense of humor.

      • HA! You betcha, I’ve almost got it nailed. It’s in a tree that’s under water on the side of a mountain in Kansas. Just a few more pages to burn at a golf course in Texas and translate the smoke signals from Hebrew using the Rosetta stone I found in the petroglyphs of the ancients.

        I slapped my head and wondered what took so long once I figured it out. 🙂

      • Dal,
        Thanks for that — the resulting chuckle made my day!
        [I’m a little behind on my “correspondence”, but my life exists in two-week cycles…7-on/7-off]

    • Hi Ed,
      I went to go get it with friends earlier this year, ended up only having 15 minutes to look around (it’s a long,long way from my home) and hadn’t planned on that short of time. It is hidden well. No gps, no metal detector and nightfall was on it’s way. I found something at the site that told me I had found the right place. We’re going back later this year.

      • Just curious, why only 15 minutes?
        Why come all that way for only a few minutes or did something crazy happen like what happened to me when I broke my toe within minutes of arriving?
        Are you from the east coast?

  30. The path we wanted to use was unavailable. It took hours to go around and hiking ate up time too. Things happen…. good and bad. We helped a very lost gentleman at 3:00am on our way home. I don’t say where I’m from or where I’m going. ; )

  31. There are so many “What IF’s” involved. What If a big storm comes up? What IF a forest fire starts? What IF I am wrong? So far, all of the “What IF’s” are leaning in my direction. Leaving Saturday instead of Friday, but
    all is good.

    Good luck to ALL searchers and PLEASE TRY to STAY SAFE!


    • Can’t wait to hear about your adventure when you get back. Good luck and be safe!

      • Let’s hope that it is lucky #7 for me Jake. Snake eyes are a NO-GO.

        If I am one day late, I will cry enough tears to float all the way home.

        Take care and Good Luck in all you seek Jake and TRY to STAY SAFE


        • JD,
          If you get a 7 when the point is established you crap out in craps.
          Your number is 6 right now.
          I hope you get the point.
          If you know the game.
          I still don’t think the treasure is in the Cowboy State.
          Only time will tell, I guess.

          • OK If the point is six – come-on six!

            I thought it was a new game, that is why I wanted a seven – seventh search – seventh month looking.

            I DO NOT want to “Crap out”


        • Nobody wants to crap out JD.
          We all have though.
          The odds are against you & all & hope you can defy the odds.
          Take a few deep breaths & whisper to the dice.

  32. Best of Luck to you JD. 🙂
    I can’t wait to hear your successful solve in its entirety.
    Be Safe !!!

    • Thanks Signholder. I appreciate it very much.

      Take care, and Good luck to you as well and TRY to STAY SAFE


        • YUP – YUP – Well, six so far, now #7.

          Ice has blocked me most of the time, then torrential waters. Have been monitoring water levels – I think that we will be OK this time out. IF it is where I think that it is, it SHOULD be relatively easy to put my hands on it.

          Only time will tell.

          Good luck to you in your searches – and TRY to STAY SAFE


          • *If you know precisely where it is you can probably retrieve it in any weather (Posted Dec. 11th, 2015)

  33. You know what?
    If Forrest, Dal or some higher authority told us we had to pick lab partners for the remainder of the hunt I think I’d like to pair up with Cynthia, I could send her out on mission after mission, kinda like a lunar rover. Please don’t take it wrong, I am a bit jealous- & may have to sit out this search season.

    I found Andrew Jef’s comment on the Gardiner story, WOW I couldn’t have said it better…

    “Andrew Jef on July 20, 2016 at 9:12 pm said:

    JasonD, FF has said something to the effect of (paraphrasing,) If you can’t figure out the first clue, you don’t have anything.

    I take this to mean that if you start your search at the wrong place, you don’t have any significant chance of finding the TC. “

  34. hmmmm…strike two on my side.. Just cant find that final link. Time to step away and let the ol’ juices stew a bit or simmer….

  35. All,

    Catch of the day:

    “The greater part of knowledge is knowing those things not worthy of knowing” – Marvin Fenn

    In this post I will attempt to extract those items which do not assist one in locating Forrest’s secret spot, from those things which may be the actual clues that will get one “closer”.

    Stanza 1:

    “As I have gone alone in there, and with my treasures bold, I can keep my secret where and hint of riches new and old.”

    Come on we all already know he went alone to hide the treasure somewhere “out” there, so there is no need for him to repeat himself. Therefore, I interpret this as Forrest describing that he has placed his autobiography and hair strands (I have gone alone) in the chest along with his treasures. He then uses what I believe is a rhetorical question (I can keep my secret where, and…) which directs us to his poem and TTOTC book. So, I do not see a clue in this stanza that leads one “closer” to his secret spot and treasure.

    (*there is a good thread on this topic by “Mindy” on another unsaid blog, look quickly down)

    Stanza 5:

    “So why is it that I must go, and leave my trove for all to seek? The answers I already know, I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak.”

    The word so when used to lead a sentence is called a “discourse marker”, It’s used by a writer to refer to information that both writer and reader have prior knowledge of. In the poem Forrest first uses the word so to refer back to why he must go and leave his trove for all to seek. Forrest is rhetorically asking us to recall why he has to go and leave his collection for all to seek. We know from TTOTC and the many interviews, that he wants to pass on his thrill and love of searching and collection things before he passes, but then the says “The answers I already know,” What are the answers? Are they, “the thrill is more important than the quarry” or “we are all here for the benefit of others” I’m not fully sure if it is one of those, both or another altogether. He then ends that stanza with “I have done it tired and now I’m week” this is quite possibly the answer to his question of why he must go and leave his trove for all to seek, because he has had his thrill (I have done it), is old (tired) and prepared for death (now I’m weak).

    So the line/stanza appears to a rhetorical question, it is one that he knows the “answers” to, but is persuading thought in his answer, “I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak.” So in my opinion this line and the entire 5th stanza does not provide any clues, but is giving us the reason why he has created the chase, and at the same time reminding us what should be important in our lives.

    Stanza 6:

    “So hear me all and listen good,”

    The so used in this line is in my opinion both to start the poems conclusion and also to refer back to previous knowledge gained in the poem and in the book.

    Another definition of listen is to “hearken” Literary to give heed or attention to what is said; listen. heed: careful attention; notice; observation

    Hear and listen seem to have the same definition but they do not:

    Hear is to physically acknowledge a sound, listen is to pay close attention or concentrate on what we physically hear.

    “Your effort will be worth the cold, If you are brave and in the wood, I give you title to the gold”

    This last part of the Stanza and the poem itself, is just, in my opinion, a recap of what we already know, that the treasure we seek is out in the woods, and our effort looking for it out in the woods will be worth it, and finders keepers. Much like Stanza 5, i do not believe there are any clues to be found within this entire Stanza.”

    Think, the idiom “out in the cold” means to be outside, in the cold.

    So I am of the opinion that Stanza 1, 5 and 6 do not contain any clues that will lead one to the secret location of the chest but may give us the “who, what, and why”, and Stanza’s 2, 3 and 4 are “where” the 9 clues reside.

    9 clues in my opinion:

    1. Begin is where warm waters halt
    2. Take it in the canyon down
    3. Not far, but too far to walk
    4. Put in below the home of Brown
    5. From there it’s no place for the meek
    6. There’ll be no paddle up your creek
    7. Just heavy loads and water high
    8. If you have been wise and found the blaze, look quickly down
    9. Marvel gaze


    • IMO, stanza one tells me two things in my solve. Will know next week if my spot is golden.

        • Good morning JD,
          Well tomorrow is your day and I think I’m just excited as you! I feel you made a strong argument for your spot. Out of all the fine folks in this community I hope you’re the one that finds it.
          Great luck to you and be safe!

          • And I thank you again. I do hope that my logic is sound, and that I have used my imagination appropriately where needed…and that I started at the correct wwwh.

            I hope that you have a GREAT week-end – I certainly hope to.

            Take care, and TRY to STAY SAFE


          • You’re welcome, im sure.
            Please let us know ASAP as I will be on the edge of my chair.

    • IMO, the first two lines give two distinct justifications for why FF believes he can “keep his secret where (aka hidey place)”.

      Use of the word “bold” in the second line suggests to me that the chest is “buried” underwater. More specifically, in “water high”.

      To sum up the first two lines, no witnesses and hidden underwater. Strong reasons for FF to feel secure in his hidey place. All IMO, of course.

      • Tripp,

        You make these statements but provide no backstory to how, why or for what reason you believe them to be true. You cannot simply yell fire in a crowded room without giving us an exit. The old “In my opinion” moniker is not a preface to give one liberty to spout off whatever they feel, put some substance behind your opinions it if you wish to be heard or taken seriously.

        Why is it so easy for some to criticize without providing a clear and justified counter. Please people if you wish to move the chase forward provide some intelligent feedback.


        • Hello L1,
          I am not sure nor did I move my efforts to witness an outlandish event, but did you put on a display of burning one of Forrest’s books? I hope I am wrong. I read your posts here and you seem wise. If you did do this alas I feel your efforts will only be haunted by how close you can be.
          Have you ever heard the phrase God don’t like ugly.

      • Tripp, I like your thinking. Anyone who thinks about the poem would come to a similar conclusion, especially in light of river bathing is best. What state are you searching in? Have you made any trips?

    • LitterateOne: I’m afraid you’ve blown it on stanza 1, and you have ignored Forrest’s own advice by discounting 1/6th of the poem right off the get-go. I suggest you scrutinize that stanza, concentrating on its many oddities.

      • Zaphod73391-867-5309-R2D2/C3PO well whatever,

        Pay attention school is in, read it again, it was not a discount of stanza 1, I simply stated, stanza one refers one to the poem and the book. Again why would Forrest need to continually repeat himself. In my opinion it is obvious are behind the curve and need to catch up my friend. Good luck you seem to be a “sandwiches” short of a picnic, and need a “flashlight” to shed some light on the true trail. ON-ON


        • Hi litterateOne: the reason I felt you are discounting the first stanza is that you specifically wrote: “So, I do not see a clue in this stanza that leads one “closer” to his secret spot and treasure.” More than half the searchers who took the informal survey at Fennboree this year believe the first stanza contains the first clue, so it would seem you are in the minority believing there is no clue there. Doesn’t mean you are wrong, but since most searchers appear to disagree with you, it might be “worth your effort” to revisit it.

          • Zaphod,

            I’m happy to be in the minority when it comes to theories, that means I’m out front. If you are not the lead dog then the view never changes.

            “Always out front”


          • litterateOne/seannm – It is true that being in the lead on this chase is good but it also reminds me that when being in the lead one can forget to see what is right beside them because things are moving so fast.

          • Hear me all,

            You are correct, when in the lead you can sometimes miss things in your peripheral, and that is why one must adjust. I’m just out here in my solitude lumbering around within striking distance.


          • @Zaphod74391 of those more than half surveyed, what percentage felt NM was the state?

            I’m thinking/guessing that the majority of this years Fennboree attendees were of the NM camp and naturally the last line in the first stanza is a clue for NM. IMO?

          • Hi Cholly,

            Re: “@Zaphod74391 of those more than half surveyed, what percentage felt NM was the state? I’m thinking/guessing that the majority of this years Fennboree attendees were of the NM camp and naturally the last line in the first stanza is a clue for NM.” — you bring up a very good point, and I would certainly love to know the comparative breakdown of those that believe the chest is NOT in NM and yet still believe the first clue is in the first stanza. There is no doubt that people on this blog who have posted where they are searching are statistically way overweighted toward favoring NM relative to its fractional area of the four states. That said, it’s nowhere near 50%, so there are plenty of people here who don’t think the chest is in NM and yet believe the first stanza provides clue #1.

    • I agree with your take, LitterateOne. Except for your 9 clues.
      I think they begin with “Begin it” and end with “quest to cease”.
      There are 10 lines in that span, but only one that doesn’t end with a punctuation mark.
      Notice the word “mark”, as these punctuations “mark” the bounds in this treasure map made of words.

  36. Need clarification on FF’s comment that the chest is located at least 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe.

    Recently, a poster discussed his search in the area of Hermit Peak, NM, northwest of Las Vegas. Hermit Pk is about 20 east of Santa Fe. I gather the searcher believes 8.25 miles refers to the circumference (or circular distance) around Santa Fe.

    In contrast, I took the distance to mean the latitude that lies 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe.

    Which is correct? The Cheat Sheet doesn’t say.

    And for New Mexico searchers, it’s a big deal.


    • Ken – FF has said (in an interview, forget which) that his definition of North is anything greater than 270 degrees on a compass. It stands to reason that anything less than 90 degrees is also a northerly direction, but FF did not specifically say that. This indicates to me that FF’s view of “North” is strongly influenced by his training as a pilot.

    • Ken… have a look at fundamental guidelines located at the header of the page.

      • So I gather that Forrest’s definition of “north” would rule out Hermit’s Peak, because even though it’s beyond the 8.25 mile distance, it is south of the 270 degree / 90 degree latitude from Santa Fe.


        Ken (in Texas)

  37. A brief review of Fenn’s poem reveals that it is grammatically correct. In the line “Put in below the home of Brown.” “Put in” is therefor a transitive verb and within this context means “to land” not “launch”, we believe. And, it is not a noun. If it was, the sentence would be grammitically incorrect which is inconsistent with the rest of the poem. We think Fenn would not make such a mistake.

    IOVHO (in our very humble opinion), BIWWWH is a starting place somewhere in a canyon in New Mexico or Colorado. Then, using some type of water-craft (raft, kayak, canoe, etc) travel down river and land BTHOB. Alternatively, if there’s a road one could drive or hike to BTHOB (“but to far to walk.” is suggestive, not exclusive, and is not a clue.) Now, at this point one does not launch a water-craft and go down river. There’s lots of reasons why not, but a major reason is how do you know when to stop? Some might say when the blaze is spotted but then you have to look quickly down into the water! Not feasible given all the clues Fenn has given in addition to the poem. We believe at this point the next part is hiking up a gulch that has a seasonal creek.

    The Geezer Team – Dennis Bockhaut, member

    • Dennis –

      Thanks for your post and also for confirming that FF is grammatically correct. Do you really have a Geezer Team – that’s so cool.

      You wrote “There’s lots of reasons why not, but a major reason is how do you know when to stop?”.

      Here is one of the ways I believe you would know where to stop –

      The end I SEVER drawing nigh,

    • Dennis- I agree that the poem is grammatically correct as far as I can tell. However, I think you need to widen your view of the water cycle, “the big picture” Your location is wrong in my opinion. Your viewpoint is incorrect in my opinion.

      “Too far to walk” along with “heavy loads and water high” are such a wonderful way of describing WWWH . Your point of view has to be correct or you will interpret this to mean one thing and you will miss the entire confirmation that your WWWH is correct. These phrases sound like they mean one thing, when the meaning is quite different. I now understand what Fenn meant when he said, it’s fun to arrange words. In such a way that you laugh at the end of a sentence.

      All IMO of course.

    • @Dennis Bockhaut re: ‘put in’ meaning leave the water not get into the water……very interesting twist, I suppose I could hear some one say hey put in over there for the night or put in over there and lets fish etc. if on the water…..never looked at it that way…..still not sure if the family in the pick up from TX would know that much about correctness of grammar! IMO, thanks and happy Friday everyone.

    • Dennis, While a few others have come to the same conclusion as your group “put in; as to land” not enter/launch. I think fenn was giving an example of how to read this…
      SB ~ 124
      “I caught a nice fish and with it he took my photo. I mean he took my photo with it.”
      There are other examples of this type of wording usage, which most would read backwards as it was intended. Being a Pilot, which would travel by aircraft carrier at some point in time… “Put in” means; to port.

      But I doubt you’ll get the ‘MY Perfect Solution’ solvers to agree. It’s not straightforward enough for them. “IN” has to mean go in someplace, right?
      You almost have to ask, is this transportation needed to be brought with you… or … is there transportation supplied by a tour company, rental shop, or boat ferry? I just don’t see an 80 year old dragging a canoe or inflatable with him and making two trips.

    • “using some type of water-craft (raft, kayak, canoe, etc) travel down river and land BTHOB.”
      Your “Team” must enjoy lots of rafting, kayaking, canoeing, to come to the conclusion you did.

      I don’t think “water” factors into Forrest’s special location at all.

      Ken (in Texas)

  38. Put in means: landing a plane and putting a boat in the water, as well as putting the boat in somewhere like a port.

  39. I have always interpreted it as – I started at wwwh, I took it (A river or stream) down the canyon, not far, but too far to walk, and then I got out of my water craft (put in) just past the hoB, and next looked for “no place for the meek.

    I did not HAVE to go down river in a water craft, and “put in”, I could have driven, and saw all points along the way as I drive – – -wwwh, canyon down, and passed hoB then “put in”.

    Just an opinion of an old geezer

    Take care, Good Luck and TRY to STAY SAFE


    • JD – Ditto for my spot. But in a different state. Thank you for that concise translation of The Poem’s directions. It was very helpful. 🙂

    • I agree too JD! I knew this from years of boating and fishing with my parents! Even in Jellystone park. Also I was lucky to fly around Hawaii in a small plane when I lived there long ago. We would “put in” on Kauai. I like to go by my experiences and not by what it say’s on the internet. I too believe you may need a small boat. Could be? No one knows for sure. Be safe and wise my fellow chased. I am looking forward to putting in and putting in when I go fishing this fall, in Montana!

        • I am so looking forward to searching again. I have been down from my regular activities since March. Recovering from knee surgery. I am getting better. I won’t be able to run, they say. But I can hike! I was so happy when Forrest said peeps don’t need to go too far!. Love that Forrest. It was music too my ears. And I am not afraid of bears! Lou Lee Bug.

  40. JD, Have fun this weekend! If you find the Treasure Chest remember: I am your friend; & I liked you even BEFORE you were a millionaire.

  41. NAMES – I was thinking about names this morning and pondered how many of the clues, or places mentioned in the poem have names?

    “In there” – does it have a name? It didn’t but I gave it one – “Cathedral in the Rocks”

    wwwh – It has a name – a very descriptive name.

    Canyon down – Nope, this canyon does not have a name that I know of.

    hoB – yes it has a name

    No place for the meek – Yes, it has a name

    “The End” – I guess that it could have a name = unsure

    No paddle up your creek – Yes my creek has a name

    Heavy Loads – Yes, and her name in Indulgence

    Water High – Yes, it has a name

    Blaze – Yes, it has a name

    Tarry Scant – I gave it a name

    Stanza #5 – The Thrill of the Chase is its name

    Worth the cold – has a name (Listed before)

    Brave and in the wood – It has a name

    Interesting – almost every clue or place of importance in the poem can be named. – Interesting.

    Just a few thoughts.

    Good luck to ALL searchers, and TRY to STAY SAFE


  42. Jon Edo and Warlock62

    If I am not mistaken, you too are heading out to Wyoming this Week-end.

    Good luck to you both, and keep an eye out fro the Grizzlies – TRY to STAY SAFE


  43. Hi searchers, I forget the dates. But does anyone remember when Forrest opened his gallery and when he sold it?

    Thanks in advance.

      • Cholly, thanks. I was under the same impression that it was around those years. I thought I heard once that he sold it around 1985.
        So if you and I are remembering correctly how could Forrest have coasted his last 15 years like he says in the weekly words?
        Any searchers know the exact dates? Does 15 mean something?

        • Yes, I just found an article on Forrest and it says he bought the gallery in 1972 and sold it off in 1988.
          So that is 16 years. Why does hesayhe coasted the last 15 years?
          Did he miss calculate? Does 15 mean something? First 3 years of any business is usually the hardest. He built the business in 1 year then coasted home the last 15?

          Help searchers, what do you think?

          • DPT,

            It’s been written that Forrest Fenn has a “marvelous sense of the moment.”
            (People Magazine, 2015).

            I believe it, and IMO, I doubt he’s miscalculated too many things during the course of his lifetime.

            A life well lived.


          • Thanks SL, I agree as well. So I think it’s odd then that he calls attention to this last sentence. 15 years coasted. Coast as in water and land, high water mark, high tide, water high. Or coast as in glide down a hill like a soapbox? Interesting??

  44. JD – may good fortune find you this weekend. Can’t wait to hear all the gory details when you return!

    If you do find Indulgence, perhaps the rest of us can on with our regularly scheduled lives. Boooorrring.

    • Thanks for the well-wishes Melanie. Even if I do find it, I doubt that I will be able to say much on Monday.

      Forrest and I will have to talk. I will have to deliver the bracelet, and Forrest will have to give me “Title to the gold”. I expect that it will be a fairly lengthy process.

      Forrest and I will have to decide when and how to tell the world, and whether it is safe for me to divulge where it was found.

      Probably not what you wanted to hear, but reality.

      Good luck in your search and TRY to STAY SAFE.


      • “Forrest and I will have to decide when and how to tell the world, and whether it is safe for me to divulge where it was found.”

        WOW JD,
        You really are confident.
        Just remember, the higher you go, the lower you fall.
        I wish you well, but all I see is talk.
        Someone please preheat the oven to 350.

      • Jake;

        The lead in was – Even IF I do FIND IT. This leaves LOTS of room for doubt that I will find it. I have to have confidence, or why be in the chase?

        ODDS are against me, but I can hope.

        Good luck Jake, and I do enjoy crow and humble pie IF DESERVED!


        • Jd- hoping to save you vacation this weekend! If you dont have the 1st poem solved the 2nd will blow you away! Get ready for crow! Oh yeah imo!

          • If you find it, JD, I will congratulate you because your solve seems like a very difficult thing to figure out.

            I’ll also hold your voodoo doll for ransom.

          • Thanks Buckeye Bob. I F A B I G IF I am lucky enough to find it, I hope that I can buy all of the VooDoo pins around!! HaHa


          • Buckeye Bob;

            In actuality my solve is pretty straight forward. I use a couple of “odd” definitions for certain words, and a wee bit of imagination, but basically – straight forward.


      • JD – Make it quick and put us out of our collective misery! Get ‘er done!!!!!!!

        I hope you’ve researched whatever it is that mega-lottery winners do. Me? I just went into the witness protection program. Works pretty well. most of the time, anyway. lol.

        Be well, stay safe and bon chance.

  45. On the subject of Land Trusts and “Title to the Gold” in another thread:
    I searched New Mexico Land Conservancy north of Santa Fe and found some examples on the topic. One piece of property peaked my interest. It is called the Anonymous Easement. It is near Tesuque Village and near the National Forest land. I can’t put my finger on the exact location. Here is the link:


    I have my doubts that it is beyond the 8.25 limit, but it is near the Shidoni Gallery. I always look for an excuse to go there.

    As for other Land Conservancy property in New Mexico north of Santa Fe, here is a link:


    Disclaimer: I am not saying that I think that the treasure is on these lands. I am providing an example of land trusts. These properties are for conservancy.

      • E*,
        Isn’t that Sandy’s land?
        She’s about 90 something & someone else looks after the land.
        I was there last month & there was a younger woman driving by the gate to access this property.

        What I thought was interesting when hiking that area, there is a tiny piece of property there that is private but not listed anywhere I could find.
        Me & my brother James looked at the sign & know it is not a lot of maps but was on mine as a tiny white spot like other properties.

        • Jake – Yes,…Sandy,…I mentioned her name in my post yesterday,…because I found “The Trapper’s Cabin” in a conservation publication about the Taylor Fork area (also home to the Grizzes!).

          I am so glad SOMEONE actually went there to check it out! Did she let you walk down Lightning Creek through her property,…while staying beneath the water line,…to look at my wisdom-is-in-the-heart-blaze I posted on the mytopo map? So you remember that one??? Are we on the right thread here,…or am I in the Twilight Zone??? :-0

          • I am still kicking myself in the but for not striking a conversation with the woman in the car there. She waved back with a smile when I waved to her.
            Me & James talked to Mike at Eldridge cabin & told us she doesn’t stay there anymore & her daughter is staying there.
            We checked the area out & came to the conclusion there’s no way an 80 yr old man is going to make it up Lightning or surrounding creeks.
            Way to many boulders & huge trees block where ever you go.

          • E*,
            We only stayed on trail 200 for maybe a quarter or third mile.
            Just not doable for an 80 yr old man IMO.
            Unless of course he is Superman.
            Maybe I’m underestimating him.

          • I see what your saying E…must be some kind of property right of way before it turns into federal land, maybe that’s why its a lil white there

  46. Sometimes you spread yourself so thin, you don’t know the odds from the E*nds.
    Where’s my elbow anyway?
    Have a nice picnic JD & I will be the first to serve up a great big heaping of crow.
    Don’t worry, I am a good chef.

    • I WILL enjoy my picnic Jake – We will NOT be serving crow…that can wait for you to serve it…IF NECESSARY.

      P.S. I TOO have a great recipe for humble pie. How do you like your crust? Flaky or not? Just kidding.


    • Better start cooking for JD! He’s in wrong spot, tried to save him vacation, but didnt even get response! IMO

    • Jake – Did our entire discussion from yesterday about my blaze for my spot disappear here???? :-0

      • It’s possible it may have been deleted because it may not have belonged on this page.
        I know, I know, sometimes we all get sidetracked.

        • Jake – Iron Will on Land Trusts,…JD getting miffed about OPINIONS about the bronze chest being on privalte vs. public property,…Forrest sitting on Lightning with his back to my star blaze on the “face”,…am I LOST on the wrong thread????

          • Well JD is entitled to his opinion. What I said about it all is my best intellectual theory on the matter given the fact that Forrest pretty much argued that the finder would own the treasure in that video clip. If property isn’t given with it (i.e. town, state, federal, Indian property), any of those entities can take every bit of the treasure because it was found on THEIR land.

            Of course I’m no real estate lawyer so this opinion could be wrong.

          • Iron Will – I agree. And that video was really helpful to me for that reason. But thanks to you,…now I found out that my topo trout is on Forest Service land,…but my Double Omega Island isn’t. Because it’s “in the stream”,…which might just be “your creek”. And it looks just like a 360 degree rainbow. 🙂

            p.s. Hands off Jake,…or I’ll sic My Grizz on you! I think of him kind of like one of those treasure sentinels that Jesse James had…

          • Your Griz is not going to like bear spray unless it thinks I’m a spicy burrito.
            I’m sure they don’t always run the other way.
            Our clues are different anyway although we are in the same area.
            The Area IMO !!!
            Subtle hints do not give it all away.

  47. Fellow Searchers,

    We’re surprised no one caught our mistake – “put in” is an intransitive verb not a transitive verb.

    Seeker said, “I don’t see Fenn, an 80 year old, dragging a canoe or inflatable with him and making two trips.” We don’t either, and nobody should, because the route Fenn took to hide the treasure is different than the route specified by the poem to find the treasure!

    JD, we think we’re in agreement. Then you said “next looked for no place for the meek.” we think it is a hike up a gulch until you find the blaze.

    Lou Lee Belle, “landing a plane”?

    Cholly, it’s not a twist, it’s the definition in the dictionary! The dictionary meaning is to go into a port, to land. Anything else is a twist!

    Inthechaseto, we don’t understand “The end I SEVER drawing nigh.”

    Puzzled, we’re puzzled!

    The Geezer Team has been in existence about 4 years. We have a 72 year old, a 71 year old, a 65 year old, and a 55 year old who is our “hired legs”!

    The Geezer Team, Dennis Bockhaut, member

    • Does your 55 year old – hired legs moonlight? Might need some “hired Legs” tomorrow. Actually that is why my step-son Dan and his sister Chelan and her husband Jack are heading out with me. Also, an adopted member of the family Crete – a multi-generational hunt for the prize.

      Good luck to you “Old Geezers” – can I be a member in abstencea – or however it is spelled?

      Good luck Guys


    • Wait… what? You have a 55 year old on the “Geezer team”? Isn’t that illegal or something… I mean.. can he/she even file for SS? I, um, am close to that age… depending on, if close can go backwards. I’ll tell ya what… send me an application for teams consideration. I may not have great legs, or a strong back, But I still look like I did when I was 54. Note; I didn’t look that good then either.

      But seriously. I have been thinking about the way fenn went to hide the chest, to the way the poem instructs us. Fenn said he walked less then a few miles, tells us if we can’t walk several miles to our solve, don’t go. Said he made two trips, and seemed to suggest we do the same. He said [paraphrasing] when asked if he took the same route as the poem tells us, answered, there is no other way he knows of. [again not exact wording].

      So you have to wonder if fenn did take the same route as the poem. Or at least very close to the same.

    • Yes true. For seasoned small plane pilots. It totally applys. I am not saying that is what it means in the poem. Its a term. I have heard it many times, when I was flying around Hawaii. Lou Lee Belle, a small time miner and treasure hunter from Whoville.

    • Hi Dennis. So, you have a “Geezer” that was on your team 4 years ago who would’ve been 51 at the time and is now 55? My god, you’re a bunch of young whipper-snappers!

    • Dennis – I caught your “put in” verb mistake yesterday:

      E* on July 22, 2016 at 4:15 pm said:

      Seeker – That was:

      intransitive verb

      : to call at or enter a place; especially : to enter a harbor or port

      One can certainly “put in” at a trail head,…with that definition.


      And this post just went to the bottom of this thread,…so I’ll re-post it here:

      Seeker – A few more places Forrest may have “put in” while hiding the bronze chest (besides his Piper plane or his rowboat on Hebgen lake):

      – Who knows where?,…wearing waders,…in his SB 124:


      – A Spring Creek like this one,…in my neck of the woods,…while wearing waders AND fishing from a Float Tube:


      (If the bronze chest was in a gear bag,…no one would see it until he reached his secret hidey hole IMO).

    • I don’t really get the idea that put in must be a landing.
      Put in below the home of Brown will be grammatically correct even if you put in on the lake, river or land.

      Can anyone explain why I can’t write – Put in below the home of Brown and paddle downstream until you see the blaze. (of course, the other sentences give context).

      Why would going on land make the sentence okay and going on water would not. And if this is true then are the rules backwards for a fish because he normally lives in the water?

      • Indy – For my solve,…you CAN write:

        Put in below the home of Brown and paddle downstream until you see the blaze.

        Donna M did that EXACTLY for me last summer,…in a fly fishing guide’s canoe….to search around my Wise Owl Blaze,…across the Madison,…shown at 5:50 in the upper right corner in this video (which is “no place for the meek”, since it’s right below Hebgen Dam – they have sirens for that possible dam failure emergency there):


        Thank you again, Donna M! Hey,…where are you??? Are you on The Chase AGAIN!!! 🙂

        • E*…Here I am! Spent 2 weeks in a COOL area in Montana, no treasure, but did find peace and quiet, and several trout that are but a memory to my tastebuds! (Yes, I roasted them in mud…delish!).
          That search was #80-85.
          I do plan on returning in a few weeks.
          And, if anyone cares to know, I thoroughly enjoyed searching for you, E, so if you want anymore beautiful spots searched, let me know! (I cherish my Grapette bottle I found near our creek!)
          Play safe, think fun!
          ¥Peace ¥

          • Donna M. – Yippee! I KNEW you were on The Chase again!!! I live vicariously through you and all the other fine searchers who put BOG.

            I can almost taste the mud-baked trout…

            And did you find any ARTIFACTS??? 🙂

      • Indy – You wrote:

        “And if this is true then are the rules backwards for a fish because he normally lives in the water?”

        I wrote a little story on another blog called:

        “The End of Forrest’s Rainbow”

        It’s not there anymore,…but “Forrest’s Rainbow” headed up Cabin Creek at this confluence to spawn,…which I would consider to be equivalent to:

        “put in below the home of Brown”


        Especially since My Grizz lives up that creek/trail,…and Bob Jacklin’s Monster 10lb Brown was caught just upriver from that confluence on the Madison. But now there is a fish barrier just above the trail head to restore the native Cutthroat trout population,…so no more Rainbows allowed. 🙁

        • Hi E*, where can I find your story – The end of Forrest’s rainbow. I would like to read it.

          • crowfeast – It was in an archived file on another blog that never got re-posted. I searched for it over there,…and it didn’t come up. Like “Forrest’s Rainbow” on Cabin Creek,…it has disappeared forever. 🙁

            Spoiler alert: An Eagle seizes and eats “Forrest’s Rainbow” just before he releases his “treasures bold” while spawning way up in “waters high” on that creek. Because Forrest couldn’t catch him on his fly line first. 🙂

  48. Dear Searchers,

    We cheated a bit when choosing a name for our team because one member is a woman! Since geezer means old or elderly, “old geezer” is redundant unless you really intend to hurt a guy (or gal in our case)!

    Yes, up a gulch, its the only way to go from the bottom of a canyon! Regarding hide route vs find route, in an email, Fenn specifically told us they were different, but not how.

    Here’s our take on the sitiation. After putting in BTHOB (or driving), one must hike up a gulch with creek that is somewhat poopendicular to the canyon. At the top of the gulch is a wetland park. We believe Fenn parked at the top of the gulch and hiked down to the place where he hid the treasure.

    Yours in Time,

    The Geezer Team, Dennis Bockhaut, member

    • Dennis et al, re: “Regarding hide route vs find route, in an email, Fenn specifically told us they were different, but not how” Thanks for sharing this! Nice to keep the playing field level, lol! I like the idea of a wet lands. Are you the team leader? What do you and your team plan to do with the trove when you find it? Have you explored all the legal ramifications and tax consequences? Any thoughts on just what the time period for when Forrest discovered this special place and what he was up to? I figure he was looking for the gold that the French hid!

    • So, are you saying he hiked back down into the gulch, or, hiked down another way? If Fenn parked at the top of the gulch, why must you hike up the gulch in the first place?

      If he’s hiking DOWN the gulch, then the answer would be down a gulch, and if he parked at the top of the gulch, then no need to hike up the gulch. So, up the gulch is the wrong answer…

    • Hi Dennis/Geezer Team.
      You wrote “Regarding hide route vs find route, in an email, Fenn specifically told us they were different, but not how.”

      That seems to be at odds with this Q&A from MW:

      Question posted 6/20/2014:

      I have a question for Mr. Fenn:

      When you hid your treasures, did you take the same path that is described in the poem, or were you able to skip some of the steps because of your familiarity with the area?

      Thank you Curtis

      The clues should be followed in order Curtis. There is no other way to my knowlege.f

      How do you square these 2 statements? Are you willing to share ff’s exact wording from his email?

      • melanie – I hereby nominate you as a deputy of the:

        What did ff REALLY say?

        Goofy-and-Dal-the-Sheriffs’ Posse

        We’re just trying to save Dal and Goofy (and other searchers) time spent looking that stuff up! And time spent posting about stuff that isn’t true,…and then having searchers add that stuff to their solves. 🙂

        Our reward?

        Maybe a break here once in a while,…when we do something a little irritating. 😉

        • Hi E*. I don’t mean to be irritating, I just want know the facts, Ma’am, just the facts.

          Still trying to catch up from my 2 weeks of jury duty……like being marooned!

  49. Re: “title to the gold”

    IMO Forrest doesn’t need a land trust, or even own the land to pass the title. His “trove” is his until a court rules it abandoned property.

    IRS allows a one-time exemption from gift taxes of $5MM, so Forrest could deed the gold without either the finder or him paying taxes on the exchange. However, Forrest would have to include the transaction on his return. In it, he would have to give the name and SS# of the recipient of the gift.

    That’s why he’s confident the finder will contact him.

    I’m not a tax expert, but I am a know-it-all.

  50. I’m not going to give my reasoning just yet but I am going to accept that there are in fact 10 clues. The tenth being that it is buried. He said he didn’t want to give that away as a clue. Of course, because if we knew we would be digging for it, then there would be no thrill to that chase. It would have been too easy for anyone to walk right up to it. Perhaps even stumble upon it. So, Mr. Fenn, I have my metal detector and shovel. I am ready to dig and if I don’t find it, I will stir up enough sediment in the creek to help the fish populations. After this last trek you will all finally read my solution and perhaps find out where I went wrong with my thought process. Have a great week everyone.

    JD- I hope all is well with you and Tess.

  51. Seeker – A few more places Forrest may have “put in” while hiding the bronze chest (besides his Piper plane or his rowboat on Hebgen lake):

    – Who knows where,…wearing waders,…in his SB 124:


    – A Spring Creek like this one,…in my neck of the woods,…while wearing waders AND fishing from a Float Tube:


    • E* – Too bad you weren’t in Santa Fe during the early 70’s. FF might have hired you as his research librarian.

      My apologies if I just blew your cover!

    • Seeker – And when I wrote this:

      “Who knows where,…wearing waders,…in his SB 124”

      I meant that my Wise Owl Glacial Erratic (= “Who”) “blaze” possibly COULD have seen ff holding that Rainbow trout. Check out the gravel in THIS video,…I posted above:


      The “Joe Billy Bob” just may have been Bob Jacklin,…who caught the 10lb Fish of a Lifetime Brown around there also (and has his fly shop in West Yellowstone):


      I texted a picture to ff after my first search in July/August 2013,…of Jim Slattery’s nephew (Jim is the owner of Campfire Lodge) holding a Rainbow trout he caught at that river/creek confluence. Is THAT where FF caught that SB 124 Rainbow trout? Was he trying to out-do the Brown caught by Bob Jacklin in that video I posted previously???

      OK, Dal and Forrest,…NOW do I win that SB 124 contest???

      • Seeker – I mean,…REALLY!:

        From Forrest’s Scrapbook 124:

        “There are a few fault lines in my aptitudes.”

        Uh,…that would be the 1959 Earthquake IMO. That video is in that area,…and just below the Earthquake fault exhibit on Cabin Creek.

        He mispelled proximAty – could that mean ‘proxim-Aty’,…or ‘almost-Eighty’,…whehe may have hidden the chest?


        “Well, that’s the sad story, and I really don’t know what else to say, except that if anybody can tell me where I caught that beautiful rainbow trout, I’ll tell them a secret that I haven’t revealed to anyone – ever.”

        That may just be (IMO):

        “I can keep my secret where”

        He hasn’t told anyone where he hid the bronze chest – ever. 🙂

  52. uken2 – Some things given as clues…not associated with a structure,…not in close proximity to a human trail (both paraphrased),…but I would check that creek area down by Heart Butte Cutoff (that would be “below the home of Brown” in my book) on this map (he only went “less than a few miles” from his car and took two trips):


    And BEWARE THE GRIZZ! I think an area near Two Medicine Lake is where a Grizz incident happens in this book,…and the author did her homework on Grizz research (she lives in Whitefish, MT):


    • E* thank you for your suggestions. I will check out the creek area.

      I may not have been clear but my interest was in finding another clue in that room and not finding the chest in or even near a structure. Thus the dilemma that things may not be as they were when the chest was hidden. I have looked on maps ago the south of the Brown House as well as down hill but I may have better luck when I get out there perhaps this summer.

    • @Real deal re: ff saying not in a ‘cave’ don’t have the exit interview but it was this year as I recall….I remember being a bit bummed as I knew he’d said not in a mine or tunnel but prior to that he’d not said cave…..IMO….some interview this year is best I can tell you…..

        • David – Here is ff’s original statement about the MINE:

          “The treasure is not hidden in a mine. A lotta these old mines are dangerous. I mean, they have snakes in ’em, they have black widow spiders!” – CBS New Sunday Morning / July 12th, 2015

          Thanks for letting us all know about what he said about a CAVE,…until now,…I did not know that. I was pretty focused on THIS comment he made to someone who emailed him about my main solve search area:



          We looked around the area of “Forest Creek” near a blaze there on Cabin Creek but found nothing. We also looked in a small cave further downstream where the pinnacles of the cliff look like a blaze of fire and up the side of the opposite wall about 40 feet. We took bear spray as well as our 9mm’s(some elk hunters laughed at us and said it would only make the bears madder!) Nonetheless, we had a great time as brothers on an adventure and probably will not make it back up there anytime soon. Maybe we can visit again if we get back to Santa Fe.

          Forrest responds-

          Glad you got in the chase but bummer about not finding the treasure. Don’t give up, maybe next summer. Did you see any other caves near where you were looking? f

      • Ah, the psychology of the search.

        My solution requires shelter for Indulgence, f’s remains, and perhaps a Chief or two. It also needs an awesome view.

        So the “not in a cave” comment forces me to either abandon my conclusions, or……

        …….believe Forrest meant “cavern” as opposed to “grotto”.

        This is plausible in the sense that Forrest was trying to keep folks away from danger, as in a mine, and perhaps a cavern. A grotto is much less dangerous, has shelter but not so much that Indulgence does not get wet in a thunder/snowstorm, and a great view of the valley and the pass where competing tribes must approach from.

        • Joseph – This looks like the “grotto” you described,…but Forrest clearly called it a “cave”:


          “Only a few minutes after you leave the East Entrance of Yellowstone, on the way to Cody, if you pay attention, you’ll see a big cave there on the left. Its mouth is 150-feet wide and looks like a giant opera singer yawning in the side of the mountain. The beautiful North Fork of the Shoshoni River splashes the opposite side of the road right there.”

    • OH CRAP!!
      You just reminded me to take it out of the oven. Thanks ken.
      Oooo, looks like it’s a little burnt.
      I wonder where he is?
      He’s not sitting at the dinner table yet.
      I think we might need a funnel.

      • No cell service where the TC rests.
        Maybe that’s why we haven’t heard anything from him? IMO of course.

        • I think JD said there was little or no service & thought he said he may stay overnight nearby. I look forward to reading what he has to say.

          • Looking forward to it myself, even though I do believe he’s in the wrong state.

          • Well guys, I did make it back, and Ken and Jake, thanks for burning it…Gives it a nice char-broiled flavor – YUM – YUM

            Water was just too deep and fast. Oh well, there is always luck #8???

            Take care all and TRY to STAY SAFE. I did, that is why I am back safe and sound.


      • YUM ! Burnt crow with a serving of humble pie…I have eaten my fair share that’s for sure. I like mine with brown gravy.

    • ken – You wrote:

      “I think I smell a hint of Crow being prepared…”

      Because I was investigating where JD’s hoB might be,…in Crow country (the Big Horn Mountains) today,…I remembered reading this great book:


      A Crow Indian might take offense to your statement ,…if you were referring to Crow being cooked or burned,…but not if he was preparing for the Sun Dance. 🙂

      • Not sure what gave you the idea I was in Crow Country – although I was willing to eat a bit of the bird. Re-think Crow Country – wrong tribe.

        TRY to STAY SAFE ALL, and good luck in your searches.


        • JD – OK,…which one then?:

          Arapaho, Bannock, Cheyenne, Comanche, Dakota Sioux, Kiowa, Pawnee, Shoshone and the Ute

          I based my Crow/Big Horn Mountains theory on what the fly fishermen I met said they thought THE hoB (Brown trout) would be.

          • E*,
            I give you credit than most here.
            You spill your guts, speak your mind, show pics, illustrations about your area & ideas sharing with everyone.
            I have done the same right down to posting videos where I have gone.
            I respect you a lot more than these secretive know it alls here.
            Oh, I can’t give you that information because my area is so secret & I know where the treasure is.
            I’ll just play games with you so you can try to figure out what I know LOL.

            That’s right, I’m calling all you paranoid secretive know it alls out.

            Only you know who you are & you know where it isn’t.
            Let’s just chat here & dance around the flame for awhile until another gets burned.
            I’m throwing another log into the fire.

          • Jake – You GET me!!! 🙂

            I have the most fun when I can joyfully share what I have learned,…in life AND on The Chase.

            But now I have to just type, type, type,…endlessly,…to explain my discoveries. The server here at Dal’s is being challenged by so many hits about the Randy stories,…so I understand. But it isn’t going to be as much fun. Oh well.

            And being the GYPSY that I am (I won’t be “Diggin”,…so I’ll omit that part,…since I believe the bronze chest is cached),…I do so LOVE to dance around a fire,…any chance I get. Thank you for the invitation.

            Now I’ll get out my Crystal Ball,…so I KNOW which tribe you’re referring to,…in Wyoming.

          • E*

            I think that you are a bit confused. Here is your post:

            Because I was investigating where JD’s hoB might be,…in Crow country (the Big Horn Mountains) today,…I remembered reading this great book:


            A Crow Indian might take offense to your statement ,…if you were referring to Crow being cooked or burned,…but not if he was preparing for the Sun Dance.

            My comments regarding eating Crow relate to that and eating Humble Pie when one comes back from a search empty handed. In older days I guess it was wearing a pink tutu instead of eating crow.

            You made the assumptions about the Big Horn Mountains and the Crow nation. I have NEVER mentioned either, and I have NEVER talked about my hoB. That is one part of my solve I will NEVER talk about, unless I DO find the TC


          • JD – OK. Since you live in Pocatello, Idaho,…and I have been to a Shoshone-Bannock Pow wow at Fort Hall,…here’s my guess:

            “Descendants of the Sheepeaters, a Shoshone group,were moved to the Wind River Shoshone reservation in Fort Washakie, Wyoming, and the Shoshone -Bannock reservation at Fort Hall, Idaho.”

            You’re looking where the Grizz likes to go looking for White Bark Pine nuts! IMO:

            “High in the alpine forests of northwestern Wyoming, archaeologists have discovered more than a dozen villages dating back over 2,000 years, a find that could alter our understanding of the scope of human habitation in the ancient West, as well as the histories and migrations of the people who lived there.

            And although the discovery of these sites was in many ways unexpected, the scientists who found them actually predicted they would be there.

            The villages were found across more than 300 square kilometers in Wyoming’s Wind River Range, at elevations over 3,200 meters, making some of them the highest prehistoric sites ever found in Wyoming — and possibly the oldest high-altitude settlements found anywhere in North America.”

            I’ll bet it’s “worth the cold” at that high elevation! 🙂

          • JD – I wrote:

            “Because I was investigating where JD’s hoB MIGHT be…”

            All words following that were MY hypothesis.

            OK,…here’s more on my NEXT tribal hypothesis (continued):

            “Judging by the settlements’ lofty location, along with their architectural features and artifacts, archaeologists believe they were built by early Numic-speaking peoples, the mountain-dwelling ancestors of the diverse but related tribes that today include the Comanche, Ute, Shoshone and Northern Paiute.”

            That covers so many of the tribes I listed in hy first post…

          • E* some very interesting research. I compliment you on your tenacity..

            As I said before – Keep fishin’ if it makes you happy. I ain’t bitin’.


          • JD – I’m just playin’ with you here on Dal’s blog. 😉

            And I would have LOVED to share that archaeology link with you,…but….well,…you know….

  53. Sincere searchers and feather merchants,

    Fenn states that he was about 80 when he hid the treasure. He knew it would take two trips, so, by parking at the top of the gulch, hiking down hill with a heavy load is easier than hiking up with a load. I can see him running and skipping his way uphill to his car without a heavy load on the return trips (har har)!

    Fenn must have thought that the hide route would be too easy for searchers so he came up with the find route. Remember, Fenn said he new exactly where the hide spot would be when he came up with treasure idea. We have reasons to believe that he was very, very familiar with the general and specific hide area, and it’s not in Montana or Wyoming, IOMHOHO! We will not share the information that led us to these conclusions since we believe searchers want to experience the joy and excitement of discovery themselves as they get closer and close to the treasure.

    Ain’t that right!

    Your most obedient servants,

    The Geezer Team, Dennis Bockhaut, member

    • Good luck with your states Dennis.
      Seems like you got a lot of brain power working on this, unfortunately, too many cooks spoil the broth.
      One brain in the right place, puts shame to all the others in the wrong place.

  54. The Geezer Team…you guys are entertaining! I think I have been to the spot where the treasure is and I am returning Tuesday….Everything you just stated is correct from what I have seen…keep u the good work…meet me if you can…or better yet beat me to the spot!

  55. Hi to All;

    Well, I am back, none the richer, except in memories of a beautiful place shared with beautiful family members..

    I am not yet prepared to eat my Humble Pie and crow – Will a pie of four-and twenty Black Birds suffice?

    My stream was STILL a torrent. Where I hope the TC is located – the water was six feet deep. I had expected it to be half that- – – so, the plan is, wait another 30 to 45 days before we venture out again.

    Saw two Bald Eagles, several Osprey, many deer, and A BIG herd of Buffalo in near The Grand Tetons Park.

    Everything points to the treasure being where I think that it is – I just can NOT get Mother Nature to cooperate – DARN!!

    Hope those searchers that were out this week-end had as good a time asI had.

    Good luck to ALL searchers and TRY to STAY SAFE.

    I am back empty handed because we WERE SAFE, and NOT foolish


    • Damn!
      I was so looking forward to hearing about your adventure.
      Gotta love seeing those Eagles though.
      Happy to hear you chose safety over being foolhardy. There’s always the next time.

    • So glad to hear you had such a great time with your family… And that you played it SAFE!!! I think you get extra points for that… or at least some extra seasoning in your pie 🙂

    • It’s nice to see everyone made it back safe.
      It’s better to stay 6′ away from a 6′ torrent than end up 6’deep.
      I just want to let you know the creek or river is not going to go much lower in a month or to. They tend to only drop a small percentage at this point of the season going into fall.
      I thought I was nuts going into a pool of very cold water 6’deep where the flow wasn’t so bad considering the size of the pool.
      The waterfall flowing into it was a torrent & the water flowing out of the pool is a torrent but areas in between in the pool are somewhat stable.
      Well, it’s nice you all enjoyed yourself.

      • USGS graphs of water levels in the area I am in peak in June, and decline to end of Sept – then stay pretty constant until April when it begins to build again.. Hate to wait until Septy, but if that is what Mother Nature dictates, I will follow.

        I like your 6′ away from 6′ water or 6′ under. GOOD advice

        Take care.


    • So it sounds like you searched in Wyoming? Why must I go? I love love Y oming. Fav place I have searched. There are some other treasures in WY. Too. I would go there soon. But my knee surgery is going bad again. I was told I need a knee replacement. I am so bummed out about that. I envy some of you out looking. How I long to search. Dang. And me the one who would run to the top of mountains.

      • Wife to get a new Knee in Sept. Good luck with yours.

        Y oming IS Beautiful!!! Love it – Love it!!


    • Sounds like you had a great adventure. I’m sorry for your luck but glad you are safe and sound.
      Better luck next time, JD.

    • JD
      I am glad you and your family made it back safe
      I wonder if your location is the same as mine,
      my location is east of moran WY.
      we will be BOTG maybe this aug.
      I was going to wait till 2017 .


  56. Listen (you knee replacement people) and hear me good……don’t do it unless you are committed to doing the exercises BEFORE the surgery. If you want to improve the quality of your life following surgery–your leg MUST be strong and flexible before so the rehab will go well. I’ve seen too many people come out worse than before because they didn’t prepare.

    and I don’t know what others think, but I say JD should have to eat at leasat a portion of crow.

    • OK, so four and twenty blackbirds won’t count. So be it,
      serve up the bigger blackbird – I will eat a bit of crow!

      YUM – YUM!!

      Thanks Whut – you prepared it well.


      • JD – before you eat another bite of pie, instead I hope you will congratulate yourself on following your heart and your dreams – another search, another chapter in the adventure of your life. Perhaps even your life’s greatest adventure! There is no shame here. Put down your fork, please.

        • Thanks SandyB

          I MAY eat one or two more servings, but the nourishment only make me stronger! I am
          still VERY convinced that the treasure is where I believe it to be. All I need is to be patient enough to let Mother Nature make the site SAFE for me to search.

          Thanks again

          TRY to STAY SAFE and GO FOR IT!


        • Well said, SandyB. Better to be wrong but out there looking than sitting at home doing nothing. My husband and I took a short trip to search, with no results. But I am happy that we got out there.
          (I understand that not everyone can go out on a search but for those at home, I hope you can search vicariously on this and other blogs.)

    • Whut, thanks so much for caring. You are right you must be strong. I am in physical therapy two times a week. I am having trouble post surgery. And now when I have time will need knee replacement. You must must work everyday to get your knee strong, everyday….pain or no pain. Do take care. You don’t know what you got till it’s gone! Right?

  57. Sorry for my absence for the past few days. I received a few messages that truly tested my core and I needed to re-evaluate many things. However I was able to reaffirm my path and will not waiver from it. Is this still a Game? So – No – let the chips play as they may. I will always know I have the upper hand in the end. In addition, The King should be your focus, not the other cards in my deck.

    Otherwise, I understand (not appreciate) the final concept and General Rules of the game. It is the proper card placement, which is extremely tricky for how my mind plays. Did I seriously misread the hand? I may have, since a few cards are still a little unclear, but If you have 10 cards in a single suit, you can pretty much guess the remaining.

    Anyway, I will take a leap…it appears that I have missed a lot of messages. Anything of significance I should be aware of? Are we still playing a game?

    “P.S.” I’m hoping..7/2+1GR = zero…ok, maybe not quite zero yet!

    Good thing I waited until TODAY to post my ramblings.

    Time to get a little sleep…think I’ve missed a few days worth. Hopefully, I will be able to focus better and only look Forward to the coming days.

  58. Serious searchers and feather merchants,

    Jon, Jake, and OS2, we geezers and the geezette, thank you for the kind comments and support! Jon good luck on your search Tuesday!

    We’re getting ready to venture forth in one or two weeks. And we have a new member, sort of, to help us. It’s a DJI Phantom 3 Advanced camera drone. We have to learn how to fly the damn thing since a drone is only as good as it’s geezer! Can 4 old dogs be taught new tricks?

    This drone has a 1 hour flight time and a 3 mile radio range so that we can peruse and take photos of both sides of our target gulch, and from the top and bottom of the gulch. Fenn said it wasn’t in close proximity to a human trail, so we’ll photograph everything 600′ to the right and left of the gulch trail and from 3 miles down to the top.

    What are we looking for in this 1,200′ x 15,840′ rectangle? The blaze and the treasure box itself, of course, but the latter may be out of sight. We don’t know what in blazes the blaze is yet but we have a hunch. Also, we believe Fenn
    brought the blaze with him on one of those trips and put in place. It is highly unlikely that given the perfect hide that there would also be a natural blaze that would last 10,000 years in just the right spot! We’re also looking for a rock shelter – a small cave-like or grotto-like geological feature formed by large boulders tumbled on top of each other and/or erosion underneath large boulder(s) or a rock shelf. Another thing we’re looking for is …. Well, we’re not sharing that!

    The Geezer Team, Dennis Bockhaut, old dog #2

    • FYI the phantom 3 has about a 22 minute flight time per battery. You typically get only about 18 minutes before the low battery warnings start going off and it tries to return to the start location. Three miles is way over blown, some sites say that is possible but in my experience once you get close to a mile or so you start to lose connection with the drone. First the live video feed goes then the connection with the drone itself. If that happens it will try to return home. However the phantom 3 has no active obstacle avoidance so it is possible it may find a tree between the point of lost connection and home. This latter point was primary reason why I sold my 3 and picked up a phantom 4.

  59. Serious searchers and feather merchants,

    Jon, Jake, and OS2, us geezers and the geezette thank you for the kind comments and support! Jon good luck on your search Tuesday!

    We’re getting ready to venture forth in one or two weeks. And we have a new member, sort of, to help us. It’s a DJI Phantom 3 Advanced camera drone. We have to learn how to fly the damn thing since a drone is only as good as it’s geezer! Can 4 old dogs be taught new tricks?

    This drone has a 1 hour flight time and a 3 mile radio range so that we can peruse and take photos of both sides of our target gulch, and from the top and bottom of the gulch. Fenn said it wasn’t in close proximity to a human trail, so we’ll photograph everything 600′ to the right and left of the gulch trail and from 3 miles down to the top.

    What are we looking for in this 1,200′ x 15,840′ rectangle? The blaze and the treasure box for sure, but the latter may be out of sight. We don’t know what in blazes the blaze is yet but we have a hunch. Also, we believe Fenn brought the blaze with him on one of those trips and put it in place. We think It is highly unlikely that given the perfect hide that there would also be a natural blaze that would last 10,000 years in just the right spot! We’re also looking for a rock shelter – a small cave-like or grotto-like geological feature formed by large boulders tumbled on top of each other and/or erosion underneath large boulder(s) or a rock shelf. Another thing we’re looking for is …. Well, we’re not sharing that right now!

    The Geezer Team, Dennis Bockhaut, old dog #2

    • Thank you for your support…I’m in the Dallas airport now and heading to my final location.. From there a 3 hour drive and a 2.3 mile hike… The treasure will be found today or I will share my clues so others can prosper…

    • Good Luck in your search – Learn to fly your drone, and hope it leads you to all you seek


    • Dennis and the Geezers – I am sure you read this,…but:

      “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f”

      Notwithstanding,…I would REALLY like to have a drone like yours to do Grizz reconnaissance on the trail,…before going “alone in there”! Do you think your drone flying skills will improve to the point where you could direct it in HERE?:


      I camped at that National Monument when I was a young Girl Scout. Lots of hidey holes in and around there…

  60. Baggage is always difficult two claim….especially when I had to rush out the door. .. hope I didn’t forget any important items for my trip.

    • Good luck in your search. Hope the only baggage you are carrying holds cloths and such, not bad past experiences.

      TRY to STAY SAFE


  61. Hello Fellow Searchers.


    If you are interested, above is a pic link which all but points directly to a central feature (center of circle) which may well be Forrest’s WWWH. I am not saying that Forrest knew that his WWWH was also the center of this 1000 mile diameter geographic circle. I am saying that the BOG wisdom of the ancients may have also found this WWWH as an unusually special place. Best of luck to you all. Please tell me what you think of the link and pic.

    • mensan_fennsan – Thank you very much for posting that pic link. I think you are right on target to find the Gold:


      On 8/12/2014 Forrest answered a question about ‘where warm waters halt in ‘Featured Questions: Warm Waters and Geography’. He said, “There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them. You over simplify the clues. There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts. f”

      That’s a pretty “big picture”. 🙂

      • E…You are very welcome…I hope you find the TC above 1500 meters (or 4921 feet) altitude near that hot spring geographic center soon. Cross the stream and walk leisurely IMO no more than a few miles and think about an 80 year old man walking and the TC site’s similitude to a mummy Joe site he visited with other experts in that state.

        • mensan_fennsan – I’m thinking that center to which you are referring is near Cody, Wyoming (near where the Mummy Cave is),…so here is a cave system that we explored on another blog (I know ff said a few months ago that the bronze chest wasn’t in a cave, though):


          But while this one may be too far South in Wyoming,…it has a Cody connection also,…and it looks a lot like the Mummy Joe site:


          But I’m still going to look in the area about 1.5 miles after I cross the creek where My Grizz hangs out,…about 23 miles from West Yellowstone in MT,…just in case there are any similar outcroppings hiding such a “cave” as that one.

          And thank you for your help and suggestions! It is a pleasure to be communicating with you here. 🙂

          • mensan_fennsan – Ooops! I think the map for the second link was wrong,…they are both the SAME CAVE!

          • E* … IMO…I think you are off the precise center of the 1000 mile diameter soliton (donut-shaped toroid) scar astrobleme perfect circle by about a hundred miles to find FF’s WWWH.

          • mensan_fensan – Which location is 100 miles off center? The Spirit Cave or my main solve spot 23 miles from West Yellowstone?

            And may I ask,…which DIRECTION (NSEW) am I off by 100 miles,…ie. did I go too far East?

            Thank you. 🙂

        • mensan_fennsan – And the Bighorn Mountains are a little further East of Mummy Cave,…but speaking of “the ancients”,…the Big Horn Medicine Wheel is there,…and evidence of The Little People (who Crowdog over on ff’s blog told me about – he said they live in caves there):



          “Little People populate the world and almost every country has their stories. In 1932, two gold diggers in Wyoming’s Pedro Mountains blasted through a mountainside and found a 14-inch fully formed mummy. The Little Man was in a sitting position, and described by one website as having wrinkled brown skin, a low, flat forehead, and the appearance of an old man.

          Timothy McCleary, liberal arts instructor at Little Big Horn College, Crow Reservation, Montana, said the mummy ended up with a car dealer in Wyoming. “He kept it in a jar on his desk, but eventually somebody from the Museum x-rayed it.” The American Museum of Natural History in New York, and the Anthropology Department at Harvard University declared the mummy to be that of a 60-year-old man.”

  62. “Shut your engine off until spring”
    “Plan a warm place into which you can retreat.”
    “Having a good plan is the best plan.”
    “A good solve is frequently lost in a poor execution”
    “It will be there for as long as time has to come, or until you find it”

    “The person that finds it, is going to be a person who thinks and plans and has an analytical mind and uses logic, not someone who has a hunch.” 

    A good solve is lost by poor execution… Well sure. We have been told;
    “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.”

    So what is it that fenn keeps reminding us we need to plan for?
    Plan; design, outline, Formulate, arrange, detailed drawing , a method for achieving an end are just a few understandings of plan usages. Fenn has stated, this challenge was one of the very few things he planned. What is it that we need to plan for, to solve this poem?
    Is there more to the solution of the poem than coping pictures of our search areas from GE or a map? Do we have do to something other than stomping around nature taking in the views?

    “Craig, there is no substitute for thinking and planning and observing and looking at maps, unless it’s the desire to keep it simple.f”

    “The poem in my book is something that I changed over and over again. When you read the poem it looks like just, just simple words there. But I guarantee you that I worked on that. I felt like an architect drawing that poem.”

    “I’m not flippant about this. It’s not something somebody is going to be able to do on spring break or a Sunday afternoon picnic. I’m looking a hundred years down the road, maybe a thousand years down the road. People don’t understand that.”

    How can the poem be solved if we don’t know what the plan is? It seems to me that the plan has a thought process of ~ down the road.

    “There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them… You over simplify the clues. There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts. f” 

    Is the Big Picture part of what is needed to known, what it is for us to plan for?

    • Some great words there seeker! We are also told that the poem will take you directly to the treasure. If that is the case, why are people searching from one end of rockies to the other? There are no short cuts to location. When you see a man on top of a mountain, he didn’t fall there! The task at hand is very difficult, trying to make a blueprint from rubble. Analyze the poem again and again and follow what ensues.

      • John,
        Is that all we need to do… Check out what large rocks we need to maneuver around? Pack an inflated raft? Carry Bear Spray… just in case?

        What is fenn saying about the “poem’s” solve we need to plan for. Is there an calculating involved? Can the poem lead us to the chest at any time of year? Fenn said, ‘If you know precisely where it is you can probably retrieve it in any weather’… Knowing and finding are horses of a different color.
        Architect, blueprint, plan etc. are the words fenn uses when he talks about the poem.

        Is planning all about what kind of sandwich we want to bring or is planning needed to “solve the poem”

        • You’ve used the qoute that bothers me the most, the one about retrieving in any weather. If you knew the clues that took you to the precise location and it was under a freezing waterfall and 3 ft of snow would you go get it? Or would you wait? Odds are you wait. Why does he refer to architect in place of artist when making poem? There will be calculating to do when getting to search area, as to tarry scant and not be seen, or linger in the treeline. You shouldn’t need anything more than flashlight and sandwich, and maybe some running shoes! Imo

    • My thought on what the “plan” is: Get the TC to your home.

      Finding it is on thing, but the plan FF talks about (IMO) is how to extract it. Your solve should lead you to a precise spot, and if you don’t know the requirements to extract the chest from that spot, you probably don’t have all the information you need to be successful. Depending on your solve, you may need any of the following: another person’s help, rope, tools, flashlight…use your imagination.

      Based on that, plan the equipment you will need to take it home.

      • Whut,
        I don’t have the comment [quote] at the ready but I think fenn stated no tools or equipment as such.

        Let put travel to and back home again aside. The comments above relate to the solve or at the very least working through a solve. It seems from fenn’s comment about his trip to the hide… all that is needed is a backpack and two trips. so what is it about the poem we need to plan for in “solving” it

        • @ Seeker as a matter of fact he did say that to a reporter. So, if your out digging in the earth etc… sounds like you need to re/think

          Loco you got that statement handy. I recall it being at the end of a television interview. He also said in an Ohio interview that once you find the treasure it won’t be hard to get.

        • Seeker,
          What is a tool? besides myself of course.
          He mentions weather but not conditions.
          It could have been snowing for days & the treasure is covered under feet of snow.
          Do you think you or little Sally would be able to retrieve it?
          Let’s face it, we can’t take everything he states as absolute.
          Sorry to butt in…..

          • Lets go with that thought… “IF” you know where it is… Why would you track through Feet of snow unless for some reason you have to be there at that time of year. No one will stumble across it, we have been told that, so why would we go in the dead of winter. Is that part of the planning? knowing a time of year?
            [note; i’m not saying to go in winter]

            When fenn talks about planning he talks about the solve or solving the poem. That is absolute… “a person who thinks and plans…” [ not just one time, but many time]
            We jump all over imagination, stand firm on logic, analyze ever word in the poem, the book and after the facts. Are we to plan on doing something, that requires work in the field? [ other than simple hiking ]

            Folks talk about the more than 8.25 miles north of SF. If you read the full comment it talks about easy methods of counting fence post and such [land surveying] . I measurements involved?

            Apparently I’m beating a dead horse with this post. It seems we all have our solves and we’ll keep climbing trees, go swimming for a 42 lb chest, and carry a pick axe and shovel to dig up fenn’s final resting place… I mean we still have some talking about caves and mines… some have even wrote a books about those type of solves. Hmm. So wwwh must be a dam. Right?

          • Seeker,

            Many lurk and hope for ‘hints’ that might help them find the chest. Admittedly I do.
            Your 2nd paragraph is about as good a ‘hint’ as I’ve read in a good while.

            Lurkers, read the book with your imagination. Read the poem the same way but more often. The rest of us have already settled into our own frames of reasoning imo.

            You may not end up with much after each read but a better part of something is better than a bucket full of nothing. Rainbows are beautiful and I’ve seen many, but a bucket full of gold…meh.

          • Seeker,
            Let’s focus on the phrase – no one is going to stumble over it and/or No one will happen onto it.
            Forrest says NO ONE, that means searchers as well as tourists, hunters, sightseers, you name it NO ONE.
            What does this tell you?
            Let’s say your a hunter in the woods, off the beaten path away from any trails & you have covered every foot of the woods many times over & over.

            Why is it you would not happen or stumble upon it?
            I personally don’t think it’s covered in soil.
            I also don’t think it’s under a log.

            Where else could it possibly be if NO ONE is going to happen upon it?

            How about a place where people just don’t go but pass by now & then. Not because it’s dangerous, but maybe they think it is dangerous although it isn’t.
            Those people stay on the trail & there is no reason for a hunter to go in there because it’s a small box canyon that ends. Why would anyone want to go in there?

            This is open for anyone who can solve the problem of NO ONE is going to stumble/happen upon it.
            I am curious to see what people think.

          • Seeker wrote-> When fenn talks about planning he talks about the solve or solving the poem. That is absolute… “a person who thinks and plans…” [ not just one time, but many time].

            one definition of “plan” is: to decide on or “arrange” in advance…..just sayin’. 🙂

          • Loco,
            “Arrange” is a good example of what I’m presenting. Is it possible that we need to do such on sight?
            Is all we gaze at simply the chest, or is there something we need to arrange or wait for, that arranges itself? Using tarry scant as a measurement of time [ linger for a short time span ] are we to plan for watching for something?

            I in roman numerals stand for [ not special knowledge in my book]. If a time of day is needed for viewing, could 1 o’clock refer to that time? It’s a stretch, but better than forcing “far” as four, imo. and kinda lines up with ” done in 1 afternoon” Is this the reason for the question ~ “the answers I already know”

            I could also say the M “I’m” could mean March and relate to Multiple Meanings of “halt” with a bit of a ‘twist’. Everyone talks about imagination but all I see is match names on a map… “If time” is relevant to the solve and the poem tells us precisely how to locate the chest… It seems to be March would be a could candidate for no place for the meek ~ in like a like and out like a lamb.

            These are just thoughts rolling around in my head. My whole point is… do we have things we need to plan for?

            It easy to dismiss tarry scant with marvel gaze to be only the chest, yet I don’t get how we can dismiss three of the stanzas in the poem as ‘fillers’ [ not say you loco, but most of what i read from others solves post ] Where is the Difficult but not impossible?

            So just for grins… hear me all … in like a lion? Effort be worth the cold… March?
            I = 1
            These abstract thoughts only work if one reads the poem as a “whole” and doesn’t attempt to “count clues until it’s finished” [Halo’s Q&A type thinking].

            Food for thought.

            @ Jake, 42lb chest and content, and add 8 more lbs of water weight for being submerged… 50 lbs possibility, to be yanking out of a body of water. ‘how many men does it take to retrieve a 10″x10″x5″ chest?’… I know there’s a joke in there somewhere. Not to mention fenn left the box unlock so no one would damage it prying it open with a crowbar.
            I have a hard time to think he would place it in water that sediments could inundate an unlock chest and over time… well, make a big mess of all those things he carefully chose to store inside.

            Just my opinion.

        • @ Seeker as a matter of fact he did say that to a reporter. So, if your out digging in the earth etc… sounds like you need to re/think

          Loco you got that statement handy. I recall it being at the end of a television interview. He also said in an Ohio interview that once you find the treasure it won’t be hard to get.

          • Jake, no one will happen upon it – and yet did some people actually walk right passed it? How could one walk right passed it and yet no on could happen upon it?

        • Seeker- I think that when Fenn talks about “solving the poem, he is referring to figuring out what the words and sentences are really trying to convey- understanding alternate meanings, synonyms, homonyms and understanding phrases which may be a play on words. He has said the clues are straightforward. If we study the words, we should be able to understand the message.

    • Seeker…I would say the hot spring at the precise center of a prominent thousand mile diameter impact rebound (inverting) soliton vortex scar which undoubtedly shaped the inner arc of the entire California Sierra Madres is an excellent analytical solve…(see the pic in my link just above your last post). This center is also on a straight line trending North to South spanning the USA which are known clovis cache sites and itself is in the close vicinity of a newer clovis site. I wouldn’t be surprised if sufficiently old North American medicine wheels have markers aligned with this precise North South bearing due to other parallel alignments of hot springs and clovis sites across the mid and Eastern USA. The ancients not only knew the North Star but the four directions of the compass and smaller divisions. NOTE: Similarly, certain cubic crystals gathered chatoyant light even on cloudy days enabling the Vikings to navigate sea vessels stealthily with little regard to weather. Their victims unwisely discounted coastal invasions during the rainy season.

    • seeker wrote:

      “Is there more to the solution of the poem than coping pictures of our search areas from GE or a map?

      In my opinion, no there isn’t. Indeed, I would ignore GE; get a detailed USGS map instead (7.5 min). This blog contains all kinds of opinions and theories from all kinds of people. I find it better to detach myself from the comments here, to focus more on the poem.

      The only planning needed is that which would be required in any long distance travel away from the comforts of one’s own home.

      Again in my opinion, the correct solution, more or less, is already known by a few people. But the devil is in the details (or rather precise location within that general solution).

      Would advise to ignore overbearing opinions by “popular” posters who don’t know what they’re talking about, but who clog the message board with their certainty, day after day after day after day. At least they obscure, to the benefit of the rest of us who don’t post much or who get few responses.

      Time is running out. The chest will be found I predict by this next winter, or sooner. But my message here is already overwhelmed by these “bulls” whose comments, though useless, dominate a poorly conceived layout.

      Read between the lines and find encouragement.

      Ken (in Texas) 🙂

  63. Searchers, especially those in Montana. In the no contest started by Dal I believe Forrest threw us a hint or possibly a clue. Forrest said ” I like to walk up the side of a hill and look back down.”

    Side of a hill, very vague. Why not more specific? That’s the same thought I got when he said the city dump was just a mile away from Bakers hole, across the highway and OVER THERE ON THE SIDE OF THE HILL.

    That is a story he told in Dals site on June 22nd 2014 about swimming in the cold water at Bakers Hole.

    Forrest also said he built a bike from the dump. Did he also build a soapbox and coast down the hill? I am sure he had a great view of the Madison River, West Yellowstone and Hebgen lake on the bench top of the hill.

    It seems like we need to pay closer attention to the word DOWN. As in canyon down and look quickly down.
    Down comes from old English and means dune or HILL! What? I didn’t know that down meant hill. It reminds me of what Forrest said in TTOTC. Paraphrase, that he prefers the saying look at my house built upon the Sand. Sandy Butte by campanuela creek? Campanuela means bell flower. A sandybank, sand dune or hill like a bench or terrace??

    And he says it almost like a look out. Something that E* has been eluding to with the pictures of Forrest in TTOTC with the Lewis and Clark search with Donnie.

    There is a lookout on top of the Horse Butte hill also. I know where you are thinking also E* and wont tell other searchers for ya. I like your lookout as well.

    As Forrest says its near the top.

    Thoughts Searchers

    • DPT – Great post!!! I also had the Horse Butte lookout as my vantage point in my pirate solve,…to see the bronze chest in its hidey forest at Edwards point. I posted that I imagined that whole area being like RLS’s Treasure Island,…and that Spyglass Hill was Horse Butte’s equivalent,…where one could “look quickly down” at the Cape of Yea Woods:


      Speaking of Old English,…look at that map legend:

      “A Scale of 3 Englifh Miles”

      They used ‘f’ for ‘s’ back then…which makes me think of ff’s “a few miles”,…being around maybe 3-4.5 miles.

    • DPT – And check out this great trail intersection I found (#205 & 88 = Red-Black-Green meets Double Omega IMO),…that looks like the keyhole “blaze” on Lightning the Horse’s forehead:


      I think that’s where one of the OTHER photos from ff’s story was taken:


      I’m not sure if ff could see my “face” hillside blaze from there,…over the top of it,…but I think he could.

      • DPT – And just for continuity,…I’ll post this quote here:

        Is the Blaze one single object? ~ Scout Around

        “In a word – Yes

        I have received a few hundred emails from searchers who are sure they know what the blaze is. Ideas range from a mark on a tree, a rock, a sign, a fire, the side of a bluff, a waterfall, a spot on the head of a horse, a rainbow, and even a live owl that flew away when it was approached.

        As a side note: with summer on the close horizon, searchers should review the rules about being safe in the mountains. f”

        That was: “a spot on the head of a horse”.

        That is a good idea for a “blaze”,…and so is the trail (“blaze”) that it looks like,…IMO. 🙂

      • DPT – Granted,…if that is Sage Peak (= “wise blaze”?),…on the far left of that picture in the distance,…then THIS could be where ff is standing with the two horses (at the 7800ft lookout):


        decall and melanie – Let me know what you two think. (And thanks again, decall,…for posting that route with the pics you hypothesized!)

  64. crowfeast,
    I’m thinking the ones who went right by the treasure were about 200′ away.
    It seems to me the treasure is in a place a lot less traveled, maybe even no one else has been there except Forrest.
    Why else would nobody is going to happen or stumble upon it?
    That statement by Forrest tells me this spot has to be somewhere where no one would want to go unless the poem takes them there.

    • I totally agree with you Jake. A trail could be 200′ away, even overlooking a stream. If there were steep sides going down to the stream even fishermen might not be inclined
      (pun intended) to go down the steep sides. Throw in a waterfall or two, and it is not a place many would venture to go to, so not likely stumbled upon. Easy to picture such a place. Could a 79 or 80 YOM get there? – he may know an easier route.

      Just musings


      • Thanks JD,
        You get it.
        Why else would NO ONE stumble or happen upon it?
        Not a hunter, hiker, fisherman, searcher, alien.
        Got to be in a place where NO ONE goes IMO.

        • Jake – I agree that the bronze chest may be within 200′ of a human trail,…but I think if it were cached UNDER a flat rock that is flush with the ground,…no one would easily discover it OR trip over it,…unless they knew to look. And an area set back that you could “look quickly down” on,…from an overlook,…or from satellite view in Google Earth,…or from the air,…would work nicely (like my wisdom-is-in-the-heart hidey hole).

          • Jake – Think: “pillowed down and scented in”:


            I noticed Dal used a similar image with lodgepole pines in that Spring 2016 Logging video. Nice.

            My hidey hole used to TOTALLY look like a heart from Google Eath,…but now,…not so much. It’s all those mountain pine beetle-killed trees falling down…

            That quote in full:

            “And when my tackle box is closed at last and the cadis hatch is gone, I will rest through all of time and space, pillowed down and scented in, with a smile that comes from remembering the special things that brought me to find that final place, one of which was knowing Peggy was there, somewhere, waiting for me.”

          • Jake – Why did I think about something flush to the ground? So ff (or anyone else) wouldn’t TRIP over it,…like he did this grave marker:


            “As we rose and started walking in the tall grass toward the helicopter, a strange chain of events began to unfold. I tripped over something and fell flat on my face. That never happens to me. Then, when I started to push myself up, I came nose-to nose with a rude aluminum grave marker. How strange and out of place it seemed.

            I could barely read the dirty nameplate, but did make out the name of a French soldier. Then suddenly we saw more grave markers. The more we looked, the more we found. These soldiers had evidently been killed during the French Indochina war in 1947. But I had tripped over a crudely made stone grave marker that had fallen face down in the grass. Before I could roll it over to see what it said, the pilot was strapping in. I had to hurry. A French name and rank, followed by arcing English words across the top:

            FORGIVE A SINNER

            Those words burned in my brain and I can see them just as clearly now as I did then, when I was so rushed. I took care to replace the stone marker as it had fallen, and smooth the grass to hide it over. The promise that place had made to me had been kept, and mine to it, as well.”

          • E*,
            It’s possible “cached UNDER a flat rock that is flush with the ground”.
            The problem I have is where is the blaze & I hope you don’t think it’s a tree.
            The blaze could be a marking on a rock but wouldn’t make sense for it to be on the rock covering the chest seeing it’s already down on the ground.
            Could be on the side of a rock face & when you look down, why would you need quickly?

          • Jake – In my solve,…there are SEVERAL blazes,…leading inward,…like treasure markers,…and you “look quickly down” at each,…but in different ways (that concentric circle thing I mentioned,…looks like a target with GOLD in the middle).

            The closest blazes to my hidey hole are the letters and symbols on the side of the “face” hill above,…and my Double Omega Island (ff’s “thumb points to that).
            It is a “trail” of one-word blazes. The one on the “face” is aka a vertical cartouche IMO:


          • Jake – And I think the flat rock itself is the LAST “blaze”,…that you can see when you enter the clearing,…which is probably about 24 feet in diameter. When you see it from 12 feet away,…flush with the ground,…you approach it and “look quickly down”,…and MAYBE see this inscription on it:

            FORGIVE A SINNER

            Then you “look quickly down” underneath it,…and find ff’s hidey hole cache and the “title to the gold”. IMO. 🙂

            There is a clearing thereabouts with a HUGE TREE laying diagonally across it,…which has NEVER moved since March 2013 on Google Earth (I used to call it the Pyramid,…because it looked like one to me). I thought the Forest Service removed fallen trees,…but maybe not that one. So the flat “gravestone” rock could be hidden under that fallen tree also.

            There were “Additional Legal Owners” or some such on the owners tab on that Montana Cadastral map link Iron Will provided,…and some “Agricultural” uses for the land in my Rising Rainbow Trout-bound land area. I am thinking someone is getting those trees,…but who??? And where did ff get the wood for The Dude Motel anyway? I know there used to be a lumber mill in West Yellowstone….

          • Jake – Even though I found my two potential clearings by shape,…using my imagination,…on Google Earth,…I also believe that if someone is guided to my Double Omega Island,…they could find the last blaze. Because that Double Omega Island looks like ANOTHER celestial “blaze”,…a Double Rainbow!:


            So then I looked those up,…and found out how rainbows are formed in physics to get this chart:


            Then I laid a Double Rainbow on the ground and went from there to figure out the likely angle of my trajectory (that was fun!). Anyway,…you can still get to the Bronze Chest,…from LOTS of different directions (at least three) and still find LOTS of “blazes”. IMO. 🙂

          • Jake – And speaking of ff-mentioned potential “blazes” that searchers told him,…there is even the remains of “a FIRE” on the way to the overlook to my spot (the one where ff sat on Lightning the horse),…which melanie said she encountered on her trek on the #205 trail. Look where the trail arcs at the 7,702 ft altitude,…then switch to satellite view:


            And I still don’t discount that I will find this blaze:

            “…and even a live owl that flew away when it was approached.”

            It’s a clearing in the pines,…there just MIGHT still be an owl living there,…since ff was 79-80!

            But then,…we might be dealing with “The Wood” (that’s for JD),…meaning the “100 Aker Wood”!:


            See also: “Owls House” 🙂

          • Well E*,
            You certainly have a lot of imagination & speculation & still agree you are in the right area, but I’m biased to loving this area as well.
            Your fortunate you have peeps looking for you in your area.
            I may not be able to make it to my area as well & feel your pain & anxiety.
            Just remember to use the poem the most, the books are next, the statements come in 3rd & everything else is just speculation at best until someone finds it.
            Just my colorful rainbow opinion.

          • Jake – Thank you for helping me try to vet my solve. I look at you, decall, and melanie as great persons to do that.

            And no one is looking for me “in there”,…I would not send anyone else to try to get past My Grizz. Especially not the very kind and generous Donna M.,…who searched my Wise Owl blaze for me.

        • Jake – You wrote:

          “Why else would NO ONE stumble or happen upon it?
          Not a hunter, hiker, fisherman, searcher, ALIEN.”

          This is my theme song for posting here at Dal’s again:

          “You shoot me down but I won’t fall, I am titanium”

          When I feel that no one likes my main solve,…or the catty-cats come out to play here,…I just watch and listen to that video,…really loud. 🙂

          • E*,
            Be careful when posting a link like that.

            There are some serious issues with that link when I clicked on it & watched what happened to my browser was not a good thing.

            Stick to trusted sites, please…….

          • Jake – Thank you for the heads up. I am on a hyper-maintained secure server here,…and I guess I assumed Goofy was minding the store as well. The volume on the youtube video seemed compromised when I tried it,…so I switched to the other one. But in light of the overwhelmed server yesterday,…I probably should have been more selective.

            Did your virus software catch it or something???

            I am NOT a techo-geek like you are….

          • E*,
            If there’s a video you want to post that isn’t yours, you should watch the whole thing before posting.
            No harm done here. I just don’t like redirects & fear advertising to update my browser when I know I have the latest update & the URL didn’t match Mozilla’s from memory.

          • Jake – I DID watch the whole dailymotion video here,…THREE times to be exact! And then I watched it from Dal’s blog,…TWICE. All yesterday. Then I went to an administrative computer here just a bit ago and watched it directly from the internet (NOT the one posted at Dal’s),…all the way through,…and NOTHING happened.

            Does that mean the corruption happened AFTER I posted it at Dal’s????

            Again,…it was running fine at Dal’s until late evening yesterday….

      • The poem (map) took me there Eaglesabound –
        others will likely not have the same map I had.

        Others were likely on the trail 200′ away just for a hike, never dreaming that they were so close to the riches that were/are so close.

        Just the musings of an old geezer with only two working brain cells.


    • All,

      Go back and read SB 92 Mummy Joe. Think about how and why Forrest stumble upon that place and how the knowlege of what/who was there affected him 25 years later. You think that the treasure is just in some obscure random location, but in my opinion its in a place right under everyone’s nose and when its finally found we all just sit back and laugh and say “why didn’t I think of that”.


      • I get what your saying Litter81. The same type of stories are told of the first arrowhead, the dessert graveyards of bones and conflicts, etc. An overall theme if you will. I have often wondered why we haven’t heard more about the 35mph trips back and forth for 1600 miles. Sure there was the schoolhouse and such… but all those lunch stops, and side tracks seem to have an impact just as much as river bathing or climbing out his bedroom window midnight.

        Now that I think about it… there has been a lot of talk/SB’s/stories about midnight’s…
        “After midnight, with George’s words fresh on my mind, I drove to Mummy Cave.”
        Anyways… if you don’t think ‘time’ is relevant to the poem… I’d think twice more.

      • litterateone,
        I never said it’s in an obscure random location.
        Certainly the place has been discovered before, but I would have to think not many people go in there.

        There’s nothing random about it.
        Oh wait, I heard Forrest say it’s in a very special random place. LOL.

  65. OFF TOPIC-
    The server has been trying to keep up today but as you may have noticed…she’s having some problems’ This is due to the large number of new visitors to the blog. If you are experiencing problems connecting please understand that we are experiencing more than 2,000 hits an hour right now as the Randy story has hit all over the world. It should slow down this evening and taper off tomorrow. Sorry for the issues. Goofy has been all over the server today checking for bugs or malware…Nothing could be found except an incredible number of visitors that the server is simply not equipped to deal with…

    Thanks for your patience…


  66. I just noticed Forrest said in his statement on No contest, paraphrase. That Sante Fe is the best place in which to live.

    I read that as Forrest saying a good place to live, but not to die.

    Read again searchers, what do you think?

    • good thinking DPT, kinda like the two trips done in one afternoon thing. One trip in the morning, one trip after noon, which is when he was done. Shame on those thinking he took two trips both in the afternoon.

        • Exactly Goof, he made two trips, and he was done in the one trip that was after noon.
          I would like to see “him” write it out, then we would be sure.

          To have gone out after noon on both trips does not make sence. With him trying to think of everything. The weekend would possibly result in tourist or people out in general. During a weekday, kids in school, people work. He would have to get out early, before people get up, back to the car before noon, back out again, back to the car “finished” after noon. Around 2:30p.m.
          Before people get out of school/work.

          With the theme of the poem, a good guess would be start at 5:30a.m., finish at 2:30p.m.
          or 9 hours. A horse would be the most likely transportation from the car. I’m sure he “planned” out everything. To do everything after noon, just too much that could go wrong.

          He finished in one trip which is the one after noon…

          • Why is it so hard to take Forrest at his word? Why make it more complicated than it is? 2 trips made in one afternoon PERIOD! In YOUR solve, doing it in one afternoon MAY not make sense, in mine it does. Could YOUR location be wrong, and not Forrest’s description of what HE did?

            Just a thought.


          • Charlie,

            What difference does knowing how fenn went to hide the chest or how long or how many trips? We ‘don’t know’ if this is the same route the poem takes the reader. I mean, That leaves a whole lot of guessing where he could have parked his car within 4 states…
            Fundamental Guidelines;
            “If you can’t make two trips from your car to your solve in several hours, then don’t go.”
            “Don’t search anywhere an 80 year old man could not carry a heavy backpack.”

            Attempting to follow fenn’s footstep for hiding the chest does one thing we shouldn’t be doing… ignoring the poem.

          • Thank you Seeker. I agree. Attempting to find the TC using statements made by Fenn, unless they support what the poem says, is counter productive in my opinion.

          • @Charlie, he used an ultra light with pontoons, big bright yellow one, lol! Come on man, two trips from his car (maybe a rental, we don’t know) and when he walked back there was no one around – there could have been but he got lucky that day. IMO

        • I realize I’m not as focused as others but I always think of this when I see discussions of time frame.

          How often do you check it? I’ll be going to the destination to claim the elusive prize on Wednesday. I’m leaving here in the morning and should be there before sunset. Please be sure to check your mail before retiring for the night on Wednesday. Please mark my words. On Wednesday everyone can cease their searches. It will be done.

          How fast do you plan to drive sir? Please fasten your seatbelt securely. f

      • come on all, I made an example from what DPT posted and ran a scenario. Mike, you should know I put no weight into that statement from f because it’s not in the poem. Plus, it’s somebody else’s interpretation of what f was saying. I WAS JUST RAISING AN EXAMPLE.
        JD, and how is that solve going? I could really care less when he went to hide the chest. I’m more concerened in solving the poem. Read what DPT smartly wrote, and my response. Where did I say that this was exactly what f did? It’s a “what if” and that’s all. And no JD, my location will hold up to anybody, especially to someone’s whom we know is wrong…

        Do you really think I solve by outside quotes and others interpretations? The poem, the poem, the poem, but you keep thinking f is secretly sending you messages, I’ll stick to the poem.

        • To be perfectly honest Charlie, when I read your post… I didn’t relay it to a response to DPT post.
          Now, I see where you were heading.

          Lately it seems more and more are jumping on the bandwagon that fenn is or has been sending secret message to ‘The One’ who would know. It’s a bit nauseating to read these post, when fenn has explicitly stated [ more times than I can count ] he would not aid a searcher…

          I stand on my post, but apologize for not recognizing your post was a WhatIF. It’s always good to question the possibilities.

        • Charlie you say it was a “What IF” – strange I didn’t read anything like that in your post – How were we to know it was a “What IF?”

          You then say, “And no JD, my location will hold up to anybody, especially to someone’s whom we know is wrong…”

          “Especially someone’s whom we know is wrong” How has my solve been proven wrong by anyone? I am the only one who knows what my solve is, and I’m not talkin’.

          I do not have the TC in my hands – nor do you. You MAY someday, just as I MAY someday hold it. But, today, neither of us is holding it!

          If I were you, I would back off a bit. If and when I give up on my site, I will let you and the world know. Until then please express your OPINIONS as just that – an opinion – NOT A FACT – “Especially someone’s whom we KNOW is WRONG” PROVE IT!

          Yes, I am miffed.


          • JD, I’m not even going to get into it with you. Take it for what it is.

            lol, if you were me…I never said it was fact. You need to read past your anger. Waaa, get over it, next subject.

            Seeker, no problem, I don’t always explain things like I want. If I knew I would “miff” JD, I would have sealed it more in stone. But like you said, it really doesn’t matter…

          • Charlie;

            I will drop it, but the word “KNOW” means “To know something to be true” = FACT. Your words not mine.

            But, I WILL drop it.


          • okay, those are your words, not mine. I said we KNOW you were wrong because you just went on a search and did not find. So here’s my words, I know for a “fact” that that was wrong, because you did not find. This is what I “understand”, this is what I’ve been “informed” of, and that is the definition of “KNOW”. Knowlege with a “d”.

            No more off topic, if you don’t take into account that it is possible he rode a horse to location, then you narrow your possibilities. Taking this poem for only it’s face value, IMHO, is foolish. To believe somebody else’s interpretation of what f is saying is equally foolish. Afternoon could be after noon. Until he writes it out as fact so we all KNOW for a fact what he is saying, it is foolish to believe somebody’s interpretation of that FACT. Don’t say I said something when I didn’t. There are other definitions of KNOW, when you figure them out, I’m not interested.

          • LMAO…
            “KNOW” means “To know something to be true” = FACT.

            FACT; a thing that is indisputably the case.
            KNOW; be aware of through observation, inquiry, or information.

            90% of the world “knows for a fact” there’s a God of some sort…
            Place it on currency, teach it in classrooms, spend billions on building and jewelry/trinkets and books. The most sold book in history is the “Holy Bible” Fact? At one time we all knew the world was flat, Fact?…or no one can survive in space, Fact?… Man will never fly, Fact?… The Earth is the center of the Universe, Fact?… Aren’t ya carrying this ~ self appointed opinion badgering security guard a bit too far.

            You have suggested fenn is telling you things by way of the blogs, call it fair play because it’s in the public eye and add “IMO” to make it all better. Then jumped on anyone who “you” think is saying something out of line…
            Maybe Dal or Goofy could tell me, when ‘you’ were hired to patrol the place? Apparently I didn’t get the memo.

            “Know means Fact”??!

            I think you have your “facts” backwards.

          • Charlie I’m not sure what you mean, he did write it out. It was a written response to a written question. It’s on the link I posted.

            Fenn wrote: I made two trips from my car to the hiding place and it was done in one afternoon.f

          • How many trips have you made to the same location and for whatever reason, did not find the treasure? Did not finding it on that one trip prove the solve invalid? I think not. We try one spot, and if we do not find it, we modify our search area slightly and try again. Not coming back with the treasure, does NOT prove the solution wrong.

            I can not control the depth of water in a creek. I can not control how fast the water flows. When the waters subside, THEN I will know if my solve is good or bad. If it is bad, so be it. I will eat my crow, and you can have a party. If I DO find it, I will be the one having the party.

            I get no pleasure in people not finding the treasure. I am not so sure I see the same in you. Just MY OPINION.


          • JD: “I get no pleasure in people not finding the treasure.”
            OK, you would get pleasure from people finding the treasure.
            You have stated before you would like the treasure to be found soon as well from past comments.
            I am speculating you are talking about your people & not any people here or anyone not associated with you.

            Now, if you want it found soon, then why are you so secretive about the tribe or the place?
            Are you so paranoid that giving this info will cost you the treasure?
            How many attempts & how many excuses?
            Your over confidence has come up empty every time.
            Oh, I’m not sorry for attacking you for fact.

          • Jake;

            I have stated that I would love it if YOU or any other searcher were to find the treasure – now, a week from now, or next year. I would be happy for ANYONE who found it.

            Why am I secretive? Forrest once said something to the effect that – If I were to tell you where hoB was, you would be able to go right to the Treasure.

            IF I were to tell you, E* or ANYONE where my hoB was, I would bet almost any amount of money that you or any dedicated searcher would wind up in the approximate area that I am searching

            From my hoB to my END point, there is only one road in, and the same road out.

            Over the past four months I have refined my search area, and it took a bit of work to get to the EXACT spot I am at now, but ANYONE would easily figure out the general area, and I am not willing to take that risk.


    • DPT – Did ANYONE actually answer your question here?:

      “I just noticed Forrest said in his statement on No contest, paraphrase. That Sante Fe is the best place in which to live.

      I read that as Forrest saying a good place to live, but not to die. ”

      Or did they just go off on an “elastic spastic tangent”? 😉

      That was for you, Goofy. I thought it was all very educational,…and it helped me with my solve. Thank you all. 🙂

      But DPT,…I thought your comment was very insightful. And I agree with your assessment of ff’s words (for what it’s worth,…since I am THE “elastic spastic tangent-maker” extraordinaire!). Thank you for initiating this worthy discussion.

      • lol, sorry, I’m a little testy today. Coyote got my cat last night. I’m sooo bummed…

        • charlie – Meet: Rover:


          He was my “pet watchdog” on another blog to help the blog owner monitor other searchers for bad behavior. Bob over there offered to pet sit Rover while I went out on The Chase. That was nice. I like Bob. Hey,…where IS Bob???

          Anyway,…I’ll send Rover right over to take care of that nasty cat-eating coyote. That’s what I said to a friend here,…when her Main Coone Cat, Hendricks,…was taken by one. Very sad. 🙁

          But Cougars REALLY DO eat the coyotes around here,…and Big Cats should avenge little cats,…right? 🙂

          • E you are posting way to many links. Knock it off, especially with the nonsense that has nothing to do with the chase, like your theme song. And I don’t care where Bob is but I will be happy if you want to join him.

          • We are all a loving family again (meaning the blog). I apologize for being such a “tool”. Thanks all for the support. SL, awesome.

            Sorry GOOF , we done.

  67. Horsed around and threw a 20 & 25lb dumbbell together in a pack, with some other gear felt like I was back in the service. Oh to be 18 again 😉

    • I did a test to see how far Forrest might be able to go with 20 pounds in a backpack.I live in Alaska where there are lots of mountains so the terrain is similar.I am also not exactly described as ‘strong’ so the 80 year old man thing is probably a check. I went through some woods, messed around trying too cross a river, and even climbed a bit. Just for fun I put my feet in the water. With all of the fun I had (as Forrest might have done) it took me about two hours to go about two to three miles before my back felt like it had a knife in it. I commend Forrest for making that trip in the state he was in at the time. P.S. It only took about one hour to get back so two trips would take about plus or minus six hours which is the length of an afternoon.Hope this helps.

  68. I’m not sure accessibility to the blog will be any better today. The number of folks knocking on the door this morning is still very high.

  69. Wouldn’t the Mummy Joe (CAVE) …actually be classified as a rock shelter??
    I believe it would be.


  70. Charlie and Seeker;

    I hope that both of you have a wonderful day. Charlie, I am sorry about your cat. Seeker, I am sorry that you think I am playing traffic cop. I am not. I felt that Charlie directly attacked me and my solve, when he said,

    “And no JD, my location will hold up to anybody, especially to someone’s whom we know is wrong…”

    and I got miffed.

    I said was willing to drop it, and I am, but I will also defend myself against slanderous attacks.

    I hope that you both have a GREAT day.


  71. I tried to send a nice little thank you and a little piece of my handmade art to Forrest and Peggy, but it didn’t get to the PO Box. Not sure what’s up with the address. I’m bummed. Emailed F and he only saw my second email to which he replied: I don’t know what your talking about sir. Ahhh…He must have misunderstood my name as I am a madam : ( Hope it makes it or gets returned to me.

    • If I find that chest, I’m keeping the bracelet, cause the mailbox to return it to him doesn’t seem to exist.

      • Well, I guess it got delivered, who knows. I don’t trust the post office now though. I’m just going to play with my puppy when she gets up. Have a good one all.

  72. Hello Searchers…FYI, Google Earth has a polygon feature that you can overlay a semi-transparent plane at 1500 meters (or 10200 feet) altitude on your search area so you can view above or below that plane. This may give you a new perspective on WATERS HIGH or which box canyon to explore and from which direction to approach it.

  73. Did you guys know the word MUD was taken to replace the word FEN? F prob. Empathises with false names in mud. Lol.

    Courtesy of etymonlone com

    mud (n.)
    mid-14c., cognate with and probably from Middle Low German mudde, Middle Dutch modde “thick mud,” from Proto-Germanic *mud- from PIE *(s)meu-/*mu- [Buck], found in many words denoting “wet” or “dirty” (source also of Greek mydos “damp, moisture,” Old Irish muad “cloud,” Polish muł “slime,” Sanskrit mutra- “urine,” Avestan muthra- “excrement, filth”); related to German Schmutz “dirt,” which also is used for “mud” in roads, etc., to avoid dreck, which originally meant “excrement.” Welsh mwd is from English. Replaced native fen.

    Meaning “lowest or worst of anything” is from 1580s. As a word for “coffee,” it is hobo slang from 1925; as a word for “opium” from 1922. To throw or hurl mud “make disgraceful accusations” is from 1762. To say (one’s) name is mud and mean “(one) is discredited” is first recorded 1823, from mud in obsolete sense of “a stupid twaddling fellow” (1708). Mud in your eye as a toast recorded from 1912, American English. Mud puppy “salamander” is from 1889, American English; mud bath is from 1798; mud pie is from 1788.

      • I think he’s referring to the “warm SF waters”tears/rain lately causing a slippery slope/landslide.supernova and maybe giving us a heads up to Beware for him. But that’s just me version of Fenns peak so no idea really. Just a guess….and we were just talking about code word “COFFEE” on seekers thread. Who knows just IMO

    • Jonsey1 – Great find! Thank you for sharing that. 🙂

      Your name is MUD, Fen!


    • Or mud is a term used for an Earth Quake that changes soil into a quicksand like substance. There are other factors involved such as water content etc. This fast acting process has trapped many ancient creatures during this event at very shallow water holes.

      There’s also a mud pot in YS with a heavy sulfur, rotten egg smell… Don’t mind me, I’m thinking geographical.

      • Yes, Seeker –

        I agree that word – mud, after being used many times by Forrest, is a hint. Liquefaction has been occurring in the Rocky Mts. in many places………..

        Perhaps this relates to the brown pants – SLIDE – story in the book?

        • Something odd just happened…..

          I went looking for the word mud in the poem and knew it wasn’t there as an acrostic ….but

          if you start at the word marvel and look up in a “V” shape – you will find the word mud – twice.

      • You think F ever slid down the Devil’s Slide in Montana? I tried in June but it wasn’t wet enough or dry enough. Haha. Look up the pictures if you can ins an awesome feature and surrounded with lots of thought provoking places depending how you get there but no matter how you think. Neat stuff!

        • I tried hard for a solve there. No joy.

          Because nearby are “Pinyon Terrace” and “Sepulcher Mountain”, and my favorite “Joseph Peak” 😉

        • I couldn’t figure out how to get to the slide. The area around it was posted “No Trespassing” and I couldn’t in good conscience take the kids there. I do agree the area is rich in history. Like the Boxcar rapids near there (well down in Yankee Jim Canyon) where a boxcar went into the river and is (from what I understand) still in a deep hole in the river.

  74. You guys ever think that bracelet is on a mummies wrist or something inside the chest? That would explain why you wouldn’t know whether to laugh….or faint. I’d find it hysterical, maybe a matching ring or two also? Just trying to fogure out how his mind works and comes to his words…

  75. Similar, to.at least this Road Worn Searcher, to Mud originating in Fen…in an interesting way…(again taken from etymonline ) F posts a warning about warnings.

    I was glad to see the Ballgame in there too :)… but there wasn’t more.about it as a disambiguation of Ferry (foray) (to carry- no vague hint to Browns ferry in Montana though it is a nice short ride when the weather is suiting…not going on that tangent I promise)

    road (n.)
    Old English rad “riding expedition, journey, hostile incursion,” from Proto-Germanic *raido (source also of Old Frisian red “ride,” Old Saxon reda, Middle Dutch rede, Old High German reita “foray, raid”), from PIE *reidh- “to ride” (see ride (v.)). Also related to raid (n.). In Middle English, “a riding, a journey;” sense of “open way for traveling between two places” is first recorded 1590s. Meaning “narrow stretch of sheltered water” is from early 14c. (as in Hampton Roads in Virginia).

    Modern spelling established 18c. In 19c. U.S. use, often meaning “railroad.” On the road “travelling” is from 1640s. Road test (n.) is from 1906; as a verb from 1937. Road hog is attested from 1886; road rage is from 1988. Road map is from 1786; road trip is by 1950, originally of baseball teams. Old English had radwerig “weary of travelling.”

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