The Nine Clues Part Sixty Seven…


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This is the place to discuss the nine clues…For instance:
What are the nine clues…
Is the first clue “Begin it where warm waters halt” ?

758 thoughts on “The Nine Clues Part Sixty Seven…

        • Iron Will, hey you’re not daydreaming on the job al la Homer Simpson are you? Joke, joke.

          But seriously, after all of the comments from Fenn, do you think these clues are simply random/ arbitrary things, like in nature?

          Nothing wrong with folks getting a little exercise outdoors, if they want to post their photos on GE even better. Thing is, if I am going out searching w/ a film crew, I want to sound like I put a great deal of effort into “figuring out what the clues mean”

    • …How about this idea, generally speaking Mr Fenn’s longest chapter in TTOTC comes down to the one thing he feared most, ending up like the 7th Calvary soldiers at Greasy Grass. Now if you don’t know what that is, time to read up.

      I’m not saying the chest is hidden there, but maybe this place is one of several along ttotc highway

      “From there it’s no place for the meek,
      The end is ever drawing nigh;
      There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
      Just heavy loads and water high.”

      Take a battle where our side lost, “the most-studied battle ever fought”, then picture f flying into combat every day wondering if he would make it back.

  1. I was playing the garden today and saw lots of squirrels scampering about. That is how I feel when I go BOTG! So much fun 😉

    Squirrels like to secret things…..hmmmmm.

  2. #1 Begin it.

    That’s all I need to know.

    Get outside. The treasure is this.

  3. Joe Sparrow –

    A big welcome to you. It isn’t often we have a new person come along
    and offer such good thinking. Bravo!

    Re: your acrostics….

    After being here 5 years, I know – not to discount anything at
    any time.

    There are 2 gates involved in my solve. And with
    what you wrote, take a look at the ones in the words gone alone.

    one and one makes – two. So we have two gates.

    Now, about other gait – IMO horses are very much involved and I don’t mean that one would have to rent a horse to find the treasure – but several people have lead me to the horse and sometimes the horses have lead me to the people. It will be interesting to watch the Rio Olympics as I do believe a certain
    rider by the name of William Fox-Pitt is involved in the chase.

    I hope you continue to post and have fun with us. Happy Hunting.

  4. Inthechase—- thanks for ur comments. Yes, I also noticed the acrostic in “brave and in the wood”. BAIT— FF loves to fish so that caught my eye. I know ” bait” would have to be a dry or wet fly as I am sure he doesn’t use worms. Lol.

      • Along the path of my solve there is a little store in which you can buy both flies and bait……I don’t know any fisherman that hasn’t used bait at one time or another.

        Early on in the chase – Forrest told Dal – not to mess with his poem. So – this all makes sense.

      • astree – Hi! Are you saying the ‘BAIT’ acrostic is in those lines? I don’t see it. But you have always been better at spotting those than I am. 🙂

  5. A short drive but too far too walk, Where warm waters halt, the canyon down, put in below the home of Brown, and no paddle up your creek all refer you to the same place.
    Namely Big Tesuque creek and the Big Tesuque trail. The home of Brown being Bishops Lodge

    • Hey Michael – I always listen closely when you post because I like how you think and we explore many of the same areas in NM. I bet our paths have crossed a time or two. Would you care to share where you believe WWWH in relation to Big Tesuque might be? I am at a loss.

    • Hi Michael. Why do you think Bishop’s Lodge = HOB?

      Have you read “Death Comes for the Archbishop” by Willa Cather? Good story.

  6. I bet (nothing) someone has said this before, but I think the first clue is is ‘And hint of riches new and old.’ Agree or disagree, why?

    • For me I think that the first clue is talking about rocks, specifically ones that formed over long periods of time or were formed a long time ago like granite and sandstone.

    • I strongly agree with you jackmgunter about the first clue and in my opinion it interprets the second clue

      • I’m kinda thinkin’ the second clue might be part of the first but not the same thing.

          • Without saying to much, my opinion is the first clue qualifies the second clue and vice versa-the first tells you what to do with the second.

  7. Inthechaseto—lol! There is one more. There is one more acrostic in the poem that spells the word “waft”.

    But I do think that “Hint of riches new” which acrostic ally spells “horn” may really be clue, especially since the word “hint” provides the “h” for the acrostic. “Horn” could refer to the big horn, or even to George Custer.

    One other tidbit—fly fisherman occasionally use a fly called a “bitch creek”. “You’ll need no paddle for your ‘creek’ could refer to a dry fly. Happy hunting! 🙂

    • Joe- If I were you I would either see if I could make all the acrostics work or just forget it. Just my opinion, and good work.

    • Joe,

      Check the 20th letter of each line in the first verse. (check the 19th, too)

      • astree—-that is amazing. That confirms it for me for that word. It seems you are looking at the poem in the same manner ( or cloesly too )I am. I’d like to hear more of your shared thoughts. Want to split a million bucks? LOL

        • Not trying to jump on your coat tails but have been wondering if the acrostic – go in peace – gip somehow relates to the horn. Gip horn could be – hear me all and listen good. If you reverse the gip to pig and horn, scrapbook 123 talks of pigs with horns….I don’t know just curious as everyone is. hmmm

    • How about horseshoe bend campground there in the bighorns. Alt rt. 14 runs right across big horn lake (warm waters halt) …the river looks like a snake coming outta there. “It could twist like a snake”

    • Joe – Or ‘horn’ could refer to the Bighorn Medicine Wheel (see: charlie’s and seeker’s comments),…or to a great location for fly fishing for Brown trout:

      “The Bighorn River is arguably the finest trout stream for flyfishing in Montana if not the world.” (See: Fort Smith and Thermopolis as potential hoBs)

  8. Will there be an announcement somewhere if and when the Treasure is found??
    The first I ever heard of this search for treasure was on the “The Travel Channel”
    On a show hosted by Josh Gates, called, “Unknown Expeditions”. I live in Hawaii, and do have the money to go a search of this nature. But it sure is interesting to read update’s and get emails on people progress. So for me I’m going get Mr. Fenn’s books and read all about it,

    • It’s an interesting thing if you get deeper into it. A fun thing, if you like puzzles and treasure maps. It can also be frustrating if you can’t find solutions, but that’s always a part of these sorts of things.

      As far as an announcement when the chest is found, no one knows for sure what Forrest has done to insure that he’ll know. He said he’ll announce it if he knows.
      One thing is that he’s said he’ll pay for a certain bracelet he’d like returned to him. It’s a silver bracelet with turquoise beads, and there’s a picture of it at this site under:
      “Most Important Info” (right side links)
      Then go to:
      “What’s It Worth”.

      So if someone sends that back to Forrest, that’s one way he’ll know.
      Another way would be if that unique chest Forrest calls “Indulgence” turns up for sale somewhere, at an auction, or whatever.
      There may be other ways that we don’t know about too. Forrest put years of planning into this, I’m pretty sure he’s planned for this part too.
      But I think there’s always the possibility that someone finds it and simply hides it away, never telling anyone, never selling any distinguishing items. In that case, Forrest and the rest of us might never know.
      Them’s the breaks.

      • I don’t think Forrest will go through too much of a process in ascertaining that its been found.

        Forrest Fenn appears to be a person who thinks ahead. Way ahead.

          • Yes and YES…those who know are aware of GOD’s abuse of his powers this morning, if Leon were here his heart would be fluttering. This mornings display of pure bliss, cast upon his eastern sky, was all the nourishment my heart and soul needed for this moment in time. Highlights like these are why I am who I am. This is my opinion and today I share it without regret, all the clues in one beautiful bundle. Good Morning.

  9. Even Forrest doesn’t seem very concerned about the EXACT number
    of clues. I don’t much care whether it’s 9, 8, 10, or whatever. But I
    do agree with him that it’s pretty risky to ignore ANY of the words in
    the poem. It’s also pretty risky to change any of it.

    Correctly INTERPRETING the meaning of any or all of the words is
    challenging enough.

    My solve now relates to the way a 9-year-old child would think. I
    was thinking, earlier, in terms of a 10-12 year old child. It’s pretty
    important (in my opinion) why I make this distinction. I won’t be
    willing to explain it before returning from my upcoming search
    trip (my second one. It’s in the same place as my first one —
    that one got abruptly stopped by snow).

    The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

    Good luck to all searchers. Please stay safe.

  10. IMO…I think the first stanza is the first clue. It tells you where the treasure is.

    • I do not agree. For me the sixth stanza tells me the general area where it is secreted, and the first stanza tells you how it is secreted, then the first three lines of stanza two start the map that actually leads you back to where the treasure is secreted. round and round you go until at last you know EXACTLY where it is. THEN, if Mother Nature cooperates, you can retrieve the chest.

      Just the rambling of an old geezer with only two operating brain cells.

      Good luck to ALL searchers and TRY to STAY SAFE


    • Hey Doug
      Just wanted to give you something to think over. The 1st stanza could tell you where the TC is or it could also be saying “as I have gone alone in there”, this could could also be telling us that f was alone when he started to enter the forest in his car on his way to the hidey spot. Not all things point to the TC, some are given direction to the spot….
      good luck in your searches

      • I look at the first stanza as a place off the beaten path, more likely a place that has very very few visitors. You know, like finding an Indian vessel that had hung on a peg or limb for years and years, then fell and laid there for years and years before someone stumbled onto it and found it in its time of history. An unexplored canyon, if that is possible in this day and age.

    • i’m leaning that way too, I’m thinking New Mexico because of the following…

      as I=(me) have gone alone in there
      with my
      treasures bold=(x)
      I can keep= (i)
      my secret where= (co…as in care of) hint of riches
      (new) old.
      New Mexico
      Just a thought and a “resolve”

  11. I doubt that I will ever get to search for myself, so I’ll offer a thought for the rest of you. I think the second stanza s one clue. Wwwh has to do with color not temperature. Red orange and yellow are warm colors FF would know this. So where the Red river runs into the Rio is wwwh. It runs in a canyon down and the Brown trout hatchery is also there at that confluence. I hope this helps.

    • This is a place that a lot of searchers come up with, if it is correct where would the rest of the poem send you?

    • This was my first solve about a year ago but after HOB I hit a dead end. Put BOTG, still came up empty handed

    • I pretty much got that too, then got San Cristobal creek from the third stanza, (named after Saint Christopher, read the legend and compare to stanza!)

  12. I’m looking at the 9 clues as way points in a way I haven’t before but maybe others have.

    Checking aeronautical charts and looking at the big picture.

    • JasonD,

      It has been attempted before. I think most gave up as the entire poem being thought out this way because of ” …a comprehensive knowledge might help” …comment. But to be honest I still gander at the thought. I would suggest looking at ‘time’ as a possibility with this line of thinking. My example would be… who is “i” in the first ans possibly 234 stanzas?

      Look at stanza 1 as “I” being self knowledge of ourselves as a race… the human race. Gone alone “in there” in time. ” i ” can keep my secret “where in time” and hint of riches [ knowledge ] new and old [ past and present ] {archeology line of investigation}

      Fenn wants to influence future generation… is the poem imply he is the riches of old for those new generations to come [ when the chest is discovered ] and why he was thinking a 100 – a 1000 – even 10,000 years down the road? Not unlike the arrow head he found that kicked started his interest.

      What did the sky’s look like 10,000 plus years ago? Should this method you’re looking at work, you might need to be very precise.

      • who is “i” in the first ans possibly 234 stanzas? Should read; Who is “i” in the first stanza, possibly 2 3 4 stanzas.

      • Great info Seeker, I like the “sky” connection.

        I get it would need to be precise but it sounded fun to at least play with the idea. found a great way-point app that exports to google earth and overlays it with some aeronautical maps also. I have a lot to learn still as I never took flight training nor astral navigation.

        Sounds like fun!

  13. I keep writing out the 9 clues differently but ending up in the same LOCATION. Like the beginning is the end and the end is the beginning. Double omegas. Wish I could figure out exactly how Forrest means them.
    1. Title
    2. secret
    3. wwwh
    4. home of Brown
    5. The end
    6. paddle up your creek.
    7. the blaze
    8. Look quickly down
    9. tarry scant

    • I can not say for a fact that “One sentence = one clue”, but it sure works for my solve. Try it, you might like where it leads you.

      Just a thought.


      • Thanks JD, happy Sunday to you. The poem gives me a location no matter how I list it out but I’ve changed my title to Queen of Poor Execution because I know the location but my attempts at getting there are poorly executed so just trying to help everyone. And since titles are important, I own it.

      • ok JD & Everyone Else Reading this,
        Forrest has said you only need the poem…period.
        Yea I know he added a good map and other stuff but the key answer is starring at you, Use the poem and believe what f has said…IMHO
        Good luck in your searches, mine is coming up shortly…

      • JD, have you looked at the one sentence, one clue starting with the 5th stanza?

        So why is it that I must go And leave my trove for all to seek?

        The answer I already know, I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.

        So hear me all and listen good, Your effort will be worth the cold.

        If you are brave and in the wood I give you title to the gold.

        As I have gone alone in there And with my treasures bold, I can keep my secret where, And hint of riches new and old.

        Begin it where warm waters halt And take it in the canyon down, Not far, but too far to walk.

        Put in below the home of Brown.

        From there it’s no place for the meek, The end is ever drawing nigh; There’ll be no paddle up your creek, Just heavy loads and water high.

        If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, Look quickly down, your quest to cease, But tarry scant with marvel gaze, Just take the chest and go in peace.

        • In many ways, it makes sense, BUT Forrest says to not mess with his poem. I start at sentence #1, Stanza #1, and TRY to make some sense out of it, but not a lot of luck. I reach stanza six, and get a hint. I take this hint into Stanza #1, and the circle starts all over again. I go from a global view of where the TC is, to an exact description of where it is. It takes me about five “laps” around the circle – getting back to where I started – to have it “solved”

          It works for me, it may not for you.


  14. Two more acrostics and I’ll shut up: “Your Effort Will…= YEW–a type of pine tree with red berries which are poisonous—grows in Montana more than other states in the search.

    ” And Leave My… = ALM== code letters for airport in New Mexico.

    I’ll keep searching. Well, well, well, it’s been fun so far.

    • Joe –

      There’s one thing for certain – You never stop learning as long as your in the chase…………..

      About the yew………

      Our ancestors revered the Yew above all other trees. It has always been held sacred and understood as a link with death and rebirth. It was used by early man for making weapons,
      tools of death, and now thousands of years later it is providing a possibility of averting death for cancer patients.
      It is a powerful re-connection to humankind for this tree when you consider that each person with cancer has to face their own death, whether they are cured or not. One of the most valuable abilities of the Yew is to provide the opportunity for people to turn and face death, to progress beyond fear to a communication with what is beyond our reality, which will bring understanding,
      clear insight, enriched by a deeper experience of life.

        • You can add “what” (waters halt and take), “law” (loads and water), and “kid” (know I’ve done). If Joe figures out WWWH, he’s going to have a big jump on the competition, so no more clues from me! (wink)

          • There is an imperfect acrostic about 16 -18 letters over in the second stanza diagonally: “wyom”. (Wyoming?) However this could just be by chance.

  15. The following is my opinion. In order to find the starting point (boots on the ground) one must follow the poem precisely. After the searcher finds the starting point ,then and only,then it is an attitude matter, not a knowledge issue. As I said before we must surrender ourselves to the poem. RC.

    • WOW RC,
      That is so helpful in my solve.
      I surrender!
      The poem & the 9 clues are of consequence to see the real objective.
      When you realize the real objective, you can then move confidently to know the knowledge you have.
      As I said before, we must understand what we are reading & therefore we must be able to completely follow the steps in the poem.
      I am glad to help.
      Thank you,

  16. RC, what happened to your solve over the winter? You and voxpop were sure you knew exactly where the treasure was. You guys were just waiting for clear weather.

  17. astree— noticed something very interesting. Forrest served in the Air Force from 1950-1970. You pointed out that the 20th letter of each line in the first verse spell the acrostic “horn” as does the partial sentence “hint of treasures new” in the last line. So, the number 20 may have more significance in this riddle than I thought at first. I really appreciate your input.

    I believe the mechanics of the poem are far more important than delving into all the meanings of words, etc. This causes you to “walk right by” clues that are in front of your nose.

  18. The following is my opinion. The most common mistake we make is trying to find answers outside the poem. The answer to the first clue is in the poem, but we are so busy trying to impress ourselves that we forget that we are following simple directions on a page. That’s what the poem is- simple directions. But we rather make it as difficult as we can because there is no way these directions are so simple, or are they? RC.

  19. I’m sure this has been shared before, but noticed that the word “treasures” is the only word in the poem with 9 letters. Since there are supposedly 9 clues I found this interesting.

  20. What does it mean when someone just puts “sub”? I’m new here so don’t know. Thanks.

    • I think I speak for Slurbs and myself when I say that not only does it mean that someone wants to subscribe to a post without contributing anything of value, it also means they are too lazy to spell out the word “subscribe” 🙂

      You can’t subscribe to a post without adding something on the page…sub is short for subscribe. Those folks are simply commenting so they can subscribe to the post and get email notifications anytime someone comments on the page…

      Slurbs and I wanted folks to write some sort of wonderful and useful comment rather than simply leave an absurd “sub” but we were nearly boo’d out of the park.

      • Wait a minute. I always entered subscribe and that was also criticized, not just sub. SUBMARINE was said to be creative, so now I use that. Just saying. It matters not to me either way.

  21. I have been stumped for a few weeks and so I will try and take a fresh look at the nine clues (whatever they are..).

    It seems to me that “worth the cold” and ” brave and in the wood” should be clues, because they convey some strong imagery and sort-of assert a challenge.

    But then we have to think about how several lines earlier we were supposed to have found the blaze and ended the quest. Does “..your quest to cease” imply the chest is right there? Or does the end of the “quest” mean the end of not knowing where the treasure is generally located; and those last few instructions need to be resolved properly to fetch the prize, making them the last of the nine clues?

    • To me, and it is just my opinion, I think you have the correct interpretation when you say, “or does the end of the “quest” mean the end of not knowing where the treasure is generally located; and those last few instructions need to be resolved properly to fetch the prize, making them the last of the nine clues?


  22. The following is my opinion. We cannot follow the poem precisely without starting in the beginning of the poem, and ending with the last word in the poem. The whole 9 sentences are the 9 clues. There is no other way in my mind to solve the poem. By following the clues precisely one can solve where to go and start solving the clues. To think about the clues before having an actual place to start is futile. As I have said before is not the clues that are the problem. The problem is us getting in our own way. To solve the clues one needs to think in the simplest terms, but a mature brain is always thinking in the most complex ways. That’s where Mr. Fenn has an advantage over most of us if not all of us. I do believe that the one who can solve the poem will be a simple person who is not interested in getting rich for it is greed that blinds us all. RC.

      • Stephanie

        It is my opinion that the keywords in your sentence above are SOUNDS LIKE. He said, It sounds like there are three or four. He DID NOT say – There ARE three or four. Do not be misled. The one sentence = one clue, to me, is a good path to follow.


      • Stephanie,
        You’re a good listener. I give a lot of weight to that interview & helped me decide what I think the clues may be.
        So we know for sure that WWWH, where HOB is (not what) & blaze are all clues in the poem. Now, what about the other six. Piece a cake!
        Thanks Steph.

      • @ Stephanie The following is my opinion. I do believe there are two sets of clues. The clues in the poem, and the physical clues. The information Mr. Fenn tells as far as clues is interchangeable, but we just don’t know what clues he’s talking about. RC.

      • Hi Stephanie — I suspect you are correct: there is no need for the poem to be as regimented as 9 sentences, 9 clues. Those in the 1 sentence/1 clue camp must believe there is only a single clue in the first stanza, and worse that there is only a single clue in the third stanza. Stanza 3 is pretty busy with “no place for the meek”, “end is ever drawing nigh”, “no paddle up your creek”, “heavy loads” and “water high”. But if that works for some people, so be it.

  23. Who says the 1st word isn’t a clue?not me fenn said As.which means do as I did that’s a pretty good clue if you ask me.can someone she’d some light on the situation so I can see what’s going on?

    • I agree – all of stanza #1 is a clue. “AS” = since so…Since I went alone in there…” Hint/warning – So should you be alone.

      Just an opinion.


      • Maybe that’s why you didn’t find it on your last BOG. Didn’t you have others with you? LOL Just kidding. I don’t have any room to talk, I’ve only been on one field search.

        I like to read the banter you offer up at times. It can be entertaining and enlightening!

  24. And hint of riches new and old meaning everything that’s on my private property in new Mexico and even some things from old mexico like my turquoise braclet I want back thats from Mesa verde that I won in a game of billards from a gentleman. 4 corners area was old Mexico territory and not Arizona as we know it today.

  25. To this day I’ve never tried to count clues and I’ve never read the book but I do have 6000 hours of research and I have listened to Fenns every word.

    • So, Joey, two straight years of 8 hours-a-day research and you still don’t have WWWH? Sounds like maybe you should get the book. (wink)

      • True, zaphod, but why do you think the clue to WWWH is in the book TTOTC? (wink-back at ya), I have it, I read it probably 30 times not seeing it.. Not to say its not there, but IMO lets think about this for a second. I believe and I guess I should say IMO, that Begin it WWWH is the first clue. IMO, I think it is as well and I believe “FF” has said the rockies have many WWWH,,, so unless you have the correct WWWH, in actuality you have (nothing), more than an expensive camping trip…

        So zaphod, I say this to say and not just to you but many. If in reality WWWH is the first clue then why in the hell would “FF” even hint at it in his book? If truly that is the one clue that takes you to the finish line then why would you publish it? ..

        IMO… FF’s only “hint” at WWWH……well I guess that is mine and a very few others.


        • Joey/Joad: you are contradicting yourself. You just said you never read the book. Now you’re saying you’ve read it 30 times. So which is it?

          And just to be clear, I did not say that the clue to WWWH is in TTOTC. I offered up the book as potential source material for you since you seemed to be at an impasse and claimed not to have read it. The book is not necessary to solve the riddle of what WWWH is — Forrest is right: all you need is the poem for that (and perhaps a good map or a “comprehensive knowledge of geography”).

    • We are opposites I guess. I DO count clues, and I do not count hours of research, and I do have both books that have provided me with valuable hints or validation.

      Good luck – Hope all of your research pays off for you.


  26. Who says you can’t judge a book by its cover?and why hasn’t anyone ask Mr Fenn if his house was built by. BROWN HOME BUILDERS OF SANTA FE,NM? Which wood make his house HOME OF THE BROWN.

  27. And can somebody help me? I’m not sure if this falls under 9 clues but someone mentioned the post marks in the two books…either I am blind but I can’t find them…thank you if you can point me in the right direction.

    • Several are on the inside of the front and back cover of TTOTC. One on page149, one on page 114one on page 108, 72, 68, 58 etc. Hope this helps.

      I do not think that there are any in TFTW, but I very well could be wrong.


      • Thank you JD. I was looking forward to hearing from you. Hope life is treating you well and keep the good thoughts flowing on the blog. You are heading in the right direction….Only my perspective though…Stay safe!

        • Thanks – Has been a bit of a rough day, but all is good. I HOPE I am heading in the right direction.

          Good luck in your search and TRY to STAY SAFE


  28. JD seems to be edgy lately. Either he needs the company of a thoughtful lady or somebody needs to say something insightful and intelligent.

    • Sorry if I seem edgy – maybe I am – Sorry it showed.

      Thanks, I have a very thoughtful lady in my life.

      “Somebody needs to say something insightful and intelligent” – There are many insightful and intelligent people on the blog, and a few not-so-much, but “Ain’t it fun?”

      Good luck, and may you find all that you seek – and TRY to STAY SAFE


  29. On a different note…
    After thinking about the meaning of “no paddle up your creek” which IMO is one of the nine clues, I have come to the conclusion IMO that I don’t have it “precisely” nailed down yet.
    I’m wondering if anyone else has come to a similar conclusion?
    “Have rain-proof flashlight, will travel”

  30. In the first stanza I got “New Mexico”
    second stanza “Rio Grande gorge”
    third stanza “San Cristobal creek”

    I’m thinking that the first 3 stanzas are the general locations and the last 3 are the exact instructions.

  31. I have always believed that once the blaze is found and he tells to “look quickly down,” there must surely be a word/phrase that says what we should look for; I often wonder if that word is “leave?” As a verb, to leave, is to cover with leaves? Does anyone else question this word or any other?

    • Those three words “Look quickly down” can be interpreted in several ways. I looked up all three, looking for “different” meanings, and after about two months of research came up with a unique definition, that led me to my prime search area. Without this definition, I would have been within 200′ of where I now feel I needed to be, but would not have known it. Confusing? Maybe in time I can make it a bit clearer.

      My suggestion – Look for hidden meanings of these three words. Who knows what you will find.

      Good luck in your re-search – JD

      • JD,
        Every single word or groups of words in the poem can be interpreted in several thousands of ways.
        Why these 3 words?
        “Look quickly down”
        My suggestion is to read it as it is.

        • Good Morning Jake;

          Since neither one of us is holding the chest, I guess we will just have to wait to see which definition is the one Forrest meant for us to use.

          Good luck in September – STAY SAFE


          • JD,
            Luck will have nothing to do with finding the treasure although it may have something to do with staying safe.
            Sometimes you just gotta throw caution to the wind & see where it lands.
            We think it lands in the water.
            Still wet.

      • JD, early on, I interpreted “look quickly down”
        as meaning under rapids…I ended up with wet socks in the middle of winter and no chest, lol!

        • An interesting interpretation that I had not yet heard of. Sorry for the cold feet, and no chest. Better luck next outing. JD

      • I have a unique meaning for “quickly down” and that it is the name of a place. I have never seen anyone state this name on the blogs and if they did come to the same conclusion as I they wouldn’t say it because it tells you right off the place that the searcher is searching in. Very specifically it does. My interpretation for look is seek. Seek quickly down, your quest TO cease not that it has ceased at the finding of the blaze. The blaze is the path, not a human one, that takes you to the treasure location at quickly down. In my opinion.

    • BW – How about “pillowed down and scented in” (pine needles camouflaging the hidey hole)? Or,…”look quickly down” as ‘down’ meaning ‘hillside” (thanks spallies!)?:

      1. often downs An expanse of rolling, grassy, treeless upland used for grazing.

      My Rising Rainbow Trout-bounded property had “grazing” under the agricultural “other legal owners” tab.

      down (daʊn)
      (Physical Geography) archaic a hill, esp a sand dune
      [Old English dūn; related to Old Frisian dūne, Old Saxon dūna hill, Old Irish dūn fortress, Greek this sandbank; see dune, town]

      That says in Old Irish it’s a FORTRESS!!! See also: ‘”effort” as ‘ef-fort’. Where is my Leonardo Da Vinci Siege Device????

      I also thought of ONE downed tree as possibly being A ‘down’,…and there is one at my hidey spot,…sitting on a perfect diagonal (which hasn’t moved in more than 3 years!).

      • BW – From Jenny’s:

        “The mountains are full of activity that fills me with wonder. One of my earliest recollections as a boy was to turn over a rotting log in the forest and watch as a hundred little critters scurried around trying to decide what to do. It’s nature in its rawest moment. I find solace in the solitude of the trees.”f

        • OS2 – Feet! Brilliant! That is a CLASSIC riddle solution. 🙂

          In one imagined search story I wrote,…I was crossing the Madison River in the lower water of August,…downstream,…at the confluence with MY creek,…after retrieving the Bronze Chest at my “Forrest’s Plan B” spot (the one Donna M. later checked for me). I was using a walking stick like the one ff uses for fly fishing (see: the TFTW cover). The stick was in my right hand and the bronze chest was under my left arm. Just when I did the “look quickly down” thing,…to watch my FEET step on the smooth rocks in the deep water,…My Grizz appeared,…and I lost my balance and fell flat on my face in the sand on the beach. That story did not end well,…I think the perspective changed to that of My Grizz,…noting how my brain looked like the DoubleDay publishing logo from the top:

          And My Grizz REALLY WAS seen right at that confluence,…by the people in Cabin #11,..about two hours after a family with a young child in tow and a baby on their back encountered him (about 1-2 miles up MY trail). They slid down the creek bank to avoid him on the trail,…and followed the creek bed ALL the way back to our camp,…terrified.

          Keep your eyes forward everyone,…on The Chase,…and if you have to “look quickly down”,…make it quick!!! 🙂

      • E* what “effort” means is “an applied force acting against inertia”. this is a key. ff likes keys!

          • james – Why I wrote that:

            “After all, in an utterly empty space, how do you know you are moving? Einstein later tried and failed to work that notion into general relativity.”

            I am still working on Einstein’s Unified Field Theory with The Wolf. A nuclear physicist I met from Rome,…who does research in Germany,…wrote his Masters Thesis on that topic. We had coffee here a few mornings. I asked about the progress of the theory to date,…but he said only the RESULT of a Supernova had been proven. The CAUSE of that Supernova has not yet been solved. I guess I need to keep at it. 😉

        • I’m no physicist, but doesn’t effort produce heat? So its absence is cold?

          I tend to take things more simply effort= try, cold=ice… trice. Is that a word?

          And while I’m at it, the past tense of leave (leave my trove) is LEFT. And an answer is a reply, like an echo.

          There are so many more, but they’re never discussed.

          • OS2 – So:

            “try ice left echo”

            Is this a Winter go-get-the-bronze-chest at my spot solution? If it is,…it works if it’s at my Double Omega Island in the creek.

            You can take a snowmobile from Refuge Point up My creek to get there in the Winter. And I’m pretty sure Forrest’s cousin over in Graying Creek has one of those ff could borrow.

          • No E, my thinking is not as geographically remote as yours. Mine’s more about specific words in the poem that suggest to me something covert.

            Is the phrase “Hear me all, and Listen good” merely poetic, or a bit too pointedly affirmative and rather redundant? I think ‘Listen good’, as opposed to ‘listen well’, means listen to the sound of something. Perhaps it is the sound of the word ‘hear” …. similar sounds might be: here, her, heir, hire, hare, etc. I look up those words … I ‘look quickly down’ the pages of an in an old dictionary and find that ‘here’ means not there, ‘here’ means this, ‘here’ means a nearby locality,…. and sometimes I find it has curious derivatives from long ago, like herald, Herold, a hostile host or army. Lots of those places in the Rockies.

            As for “effort’, well, that one is work. But I wish all you BOG guys good luck, and please keep reporting what you find, or don’t. It does “stir my spirit”… my Coriolis.

  32. The following is my opinion. The reason nobody has found the treasure is we let our minds wander away from the poem. We have it in our minds that the place where the treasure lies is some kind of wonderful, special place. I see the poem as a set of instruction that will take anybody that can solve the poem to the hiding place. I do not follow the poem with any prejudice, or preconceived notions for only the poem and Mr. Fenn know where the treasure chest is. That being said nothing matters about the poem but the 1st clue,and this clue will point to the second clue, and the 2nd to the third and so on and so forth. The first clue is the hardest because it is not what searchers think it is.RC.

    • I think you could take that 1 step further by saying we need to determine WWWH, then the other clues fall right into place like a set of directions. I also agree that the TC doesn’t necessarily lie in a wonderful, special place. IMO, that’s what the line, “your effort will be worth the cold” means. Lacking in passion or emotion.

      • If only it were that simple. I’m confident I have WWWH, that I know what the “it” is in Stanza 2, and that I have the right “canyon down”. I have a couple possibilities for HoB, but beyond that, the correct choices are not clear-cut. Perhaps this is what Forrest meant by TLGFI not being able to get closer than the first two clues. At some point you have to transition from figuring out the starting point and the correct direction of travel, to physically being there to follow the remaining clues.

        • On the contrary, IMO if you solve the correct WWWH, the following clues fall right into place. There will only be one canyon , oneHOB, one creek, no choices. That’s how the searcher will be confident. How can anyone be confident if there are choices?

          • Eaglesabound: then how would *you* explain Forrest’s remark about TLGFI? Why can ~you~ get past the first 2 clues without physically being there while she cannot? I can move with confidence to the starting point — that’s easy. (And also amusing, given that you and I aren’t looking in the same state, and in fact you and JD are in different states.) So two out of the three of us have the wrong WWWH, and yet I’m sure we’re all equally confident we’ve got it right. (grin)

          • You’re probably not gonna like my answer about the little girl, but here goes
            F said she couldn’t get “closer”, not past the first 2 clues, but closer than.
            So I think F was having fun with us because the 3rd clue is “too far” as in too far too walk. She can’t get closer because it’s too far. I think it’s funny myself.
            I understand that JD and I are in different states but we have similar thoughts on how the poem is used.

          • I think there’s another potential answer to the LGFI conundrum. Suppose the second clue is “take it in the canyon down, not far, but too far to walk.” Suppose the third clue is HoB, and that it is a point somewhere along that canyon. In this case, having the first two clues technically gets you as close as having the first three since the 2nd clue actually includes the 3rd as one of its infinite number of points.

            Eventually the spatial resolution of the clues must exceed that of any map you could be using, and therefore you will have to be there in person to properly follow the clues. From Forrest Gets Mail #9: “Do [you] expect that people will somehow *know* for sure once they have found the first clue?”

            Forrest replies: “No, many people have found the first clue but they didn’t know it. Until someone finds the treasure they will not know for sure that they have discovered the first clue.”

            Moving with confidence is not the same as moving with certainty.

          • IMO, you don’t need to be there to follow the clues, you only need to be where the journey ends.
            You are assuming that the first clue is WWWH, that is not my first clue.
            The place where the treasure lies is directly related to the first clue, that’s how you will know that you had the first clue correct. But since none of us has the treasure this can’t be proven.

          • Hi Eaglesabound,

            > IMO, you don’t need to be there to
            > follow the clues, you only need to be
            > where the journey ends.

            Well, sure — if you knew where that spot was, and there was a more direct way to get to it, no need to retrace the clue steps. But Forrest has said there are no short cuts, and “the clues should be followed in order (Curtis). There is no other way to my knowlege.f” (misspelling deliberate).

            > You are assuming that the first clue is
            > WWWH, that is not my first clue.

            It is NOT my first clue either, at least in terms of the order that clues appear in the poem. My first clue is in the first stanza, and is more specific than the answer to WWWH.

          • Well zaphod, we agree on the first clue.
            I believe you can follow the clues without BOTG and there is a more direct way.

          • Eaglesabound: well, we may agree that the first clue is in the first stanza, but we clearly don’t have the same first clue (nor the same WWWH) since we’re focused on different states.

  33. I haven’t post in a long time.
    I do enjoy reading post when I can. My search was leading to dinwoody glacier.
    But now changing direction on interpreting the clues.
    maybe only one or two clues are in the poem, and you need to find the spot for clues 3, then you’ll need to solve another clue or poem to get to more clues etc…
    Is that why searchers went right past the other clues.
    Just a thought.

    • Eirkvon,

      I have always liked the idea of glaciers being involved in the poem. One thought was obvious, Glacier National Park.
      I read stanza one as; “I” being of two… Fenn himself and the glaciers. Fenn with his treasures and the Glaciers with there’s trapped for thousands of years. I can keep my secret where [in time] and hint of riches new and old… this hint was to me, both fenn cache for the next generations to follow in his chase. And the glaciers hidden riches of years past to be found years from now. A theme if you will, for the reading of the poem.

      “the end is ever drawing nigh; there’ll be no paddle up your creek [ glaciers are called, ice river in this case ] just heavy loads and water high.

      It’s a theory I put on the back burn for later thoughts.

  34. Hi Erikvon,

    Lot’s of people agree with you I think … sort of … that the poem gives some solid locations with a clue or two or…. and then you have to be there to turn the words in the poem into clues/locations.

    I like your perspective.

  35. Here’s some help with the “first”clue, that lead me to my perspective on the “nine” clues.

    first (adj., adv.)
    Old English fyrst “foremost, going before all others; chief, principal,” also (though rarely) as an adverb, “at first, originally,” superlative of fore; from Proto-Germanic *furista- “foremost” (source also of Old Saxon fuirst “first,” Old High German furist, Old Norse fyrstr, Danish første, Old Frisian ferist, Middle Dutch vorste “prince,” Dutch vorst “first,” German Fürst “prince”), from PIE *pre-isto-, superlative of *pre-, from root *per- (1) “forward, through” (see per).

    Read the forward. Go FORTH!! (Running joke in my family from the old Levi’s treasure hunt called go forth! Some clues you had to approach a stranger in central park etc….there were living breathing walking clues so we use it as an expression on trust in others and ourselves since that hunt) I do believe this first clue may honestly help many go.forward with new ideas if stuck in a rut though 🙂 just a perspective to consider. ….then again my prehistoric family are all loons so maybe following our advice is not great. I believe it is good though 😉

      • Correction OUR prehistoric family
        .. sry, aparrelently it makes a difference in Cleland…I was knapping when I was typing…

    • Thank you for trying to help, i need it. But honestly sometimes i think its harder to decipher searchers posts than the poem. 🙂
      Maybe i’ll read the foreword again.

      • LOL, I agree that sometimes ‘its harder to decipher searchers posts than the poem.’ My favorite clue is “Don’t let logic distract you from the poem.”

      • Hulings wrote Forrest’s first ‘forward’ (At least that’s his choice of spelling…it can be read for free on the Old Santa Fe website by clicking on store /teepee smoke/ look inside. It’s on deaf J.H. Sharp. Listen good.

        Cleland (at least that’s how be spells it) wrote Our Prehistoric Family.

        I found both the most forward forward, and a bit west of Toledo interesting. A simple google search or reading the forward suggested in the post wasn’t recommended to be more cryptic than the poem. Just found it interesting and thought I’d share it.

  36. I’m looking to vet an idea…

    could, the chest be in a culvert? blaze… trail… ford the river… culvert… under trail?

    not near it… under it?

    • Even if Forrest placed it when waters were low (80 year old man), flowing waters can move boulders so moving a heavy square box wouldn’t be a problem. Therefore i don’t think the hidey spot would stand the test of time or a spring rain.

  37. Any thoughts on – take it in the can yon down-. He could have carried treasure that way. Doesn’t really help solve anything though.

    • Remember he’s not telling you how HE got to the spot, he’s telling you how to get to the spot. So he probably didn’t carry anything that way.
      To me this line tells you to “take (WWH) in the canyon down”. Down meaning lower in elevation. (as the waters would flow)

  38. The following is my opinion. I do believe the poem is superfluous for the instructions are more than we need, and it is sometimes repetitive. RC.

    • RC,
      Repetitive for what reason? Some have suggested that the 9 or almost all the clues might be one place with different description. Others suggest that parts of the poem confirm one place / clue with another place /clue later on in the poem being the same place. I can see for example; wwwh and hlawh as the same.

      So is there a possible reason for being repetitive? Wouldn’t that be unnecessary… like beating an answer into the reader. Or just clever to repeat the same, to force the reader to think many place / things are involved. An illusion if you will.
      In any case… why this method of writing a poem? any idea?

      • A few thoughts–

        1) broken record phenomenon…..or maybe read like ’rounds’ are sung overlapping parts

        2) word games/riddle

        I don’t want to give away all I think but an easy line as a game might be:

        I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak.


        Tired done over again= RE-TIRED

        And Retired also matches old/finished/weak

        Possible “hint” in book (according to F hints don’t help find chest…more like confirmed to clues) all the replacing and re#tiring spares on Skippy’s car.

        Again just flowing ideas not saying it’s right.

        • How old do you need to be to join AARP or get SSI? it different in every state? Anything special at 80? Besides 4 score?

          • Hello jonsey1. I started receiving AARP info when I turned 50. You can receive SSI when you’re 62, but can receive more when you’re 63 and 64. Don’t believe there’s anything when you turn 80.

          • you might be confusing SS with SSI. Also, SS is NOT a taxpayers investment into a gov. insurance program or retirement plan as so many think it to be. It never was. Read the history/description at the site.

    • zeldasings,

      I always feel like reading!

      Thanks for sharing such an entertaining journey about the life of one, remarkable human being; Mr. Barnum Brown.

      Cool, indeed!


  39. The following is my opinion and opinion only. The clues are what they are and there is no room for error . If a searcher uses their own opinion about what the clues may mean she, or he will be wrong. But do not dismay there are searchers who have been within close proximity to the chest but have not found it because there’s something missing about their solve,and that is to decipher the first clue, and to believe in what the poem says. To believe that anything is possible and that nothing is but the poem.

    There are those of us who think that we are so smart that we”know ” we can solve the poem, but believe me this poem is like quick sand the more you think you know the more you are devoured by it. As I said before you must surrender to the poem and open up yourself to what the poem is saying and not to what you think you are seeing. RC.

  40. Advice on how to solve the poem . . .

    First, I would not worry about how many clues there are, or what
    is a specific clue.

    Then I would try to find places that seem to fit various phrases
    in the poem, in order, from the poem’s beginning to its end. And
    I would try to be flexible, using some imagination. For example,
    if a phrase in the poem was “distant tower”, I’d look for something
    that is tall and relatively thin, as seen from a distance . . . or else
    something with a name that is suggestive of this, such as
    (fictional name) Skyscraper Cliffs.

    Here’s an example of my method, using fictional places:

    “Begin it where warm waters halt . . .” Maybe it’s a memorial to
    fallen soldiers, as people cry there (warm waters may be tears).
    I might start at a place like that . . . such as the location of Custer’s
    “last stand” (Little Big Horn?).

    Then I would look for a nearby canyon to go down (either southward
    or downstream the way the water went that formed the canyon).
    If there’s no canyon of any apparent significance within a few
    miles of the memorial, then this solve is probably not valid.

    Each clue must be fairly close to the preceding clue (if there is one),
    as well as the next clue. If not, the solve probably isn’t a valid one
    that will lead you to the treasure.

    I think you should ignore man-made things such as buildings. And
    trees. How many of those will stand the test of time, and be around
    for a thousand years? And more specifically, I DON’T BELIEVE
    that the BLAZE is carved on a tree! But if you’re going to be
    stubborn, at least please take care and don’t risk your life doing
    something stupid! I’d look for more natural things, like rivers,
    creeks, canyons, mountains, etc. that aren’t very likely to change
    very much over time, compared to buildings, specific animals, etc.

    Good luck to all searchers. Please be safe.

  41. The following is my opinion. The clue Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down is of no consequence if you do not know where to do just that. The first stanza has more wight than the second one. If Mr. Fenn had started the poem with the second stanza it would not work for the first one starts your wheels in motion. RC.

  42. So why is the first stanza the most important information? Because of what it is being conveyed to us, but we just do not understand. This piece of information is imperative to understanding the rest of the poem. Without it we are just lost, and throwing darts in the dark. The second clue owes its existence to the first stanza(the first clue). We just do not get it. He went where? By himself? To do what? He went there to keep a secret, but how is he keeping his secret you may ask? Is he keeping his secret in his mind or somewhere else? But he has never put it in writing where the treasure chest is, right? Really? Something to think about.This is my opinion, and opinion only.RC

    • I have spent most of my time on this stanza and the second. Early on, I deciphered this stanza basically telling us to look in TOTC. I haven’t been able to move on , kind of stuck.
      Thank you for your post, always an interesting read.

      • Arca –

        What you should be looking for is a great starting place.

        Yes, I think to look in the book is important – but later on……..

        Where you start is everything – try narrowing things down.

    • He also will be giving old and new hints. To me riches are memories, after all, thats what ttotc is all about, right?,memories. Thank you stanza one.

  43. First timer with a question….how does one make a post under a new topic header?

    • you can’t really do that here. But if you wanted to put a solution story up for Dal to see. Just send it to him via email… ….

      and request him to post your adventure. Include any pics in the email you would like to be shown.

      But as for a new topic, this isn’t a forum, and therefore doesn’t work like one. Hope that helps.

  44. Fellow searchers, I would like to pose a hypothetical situation and see what the range of responses might be. I’m posting this here under “Nine Clues” as it strikes me as the most appropriate place to ask my question. Here it is:

    What would it be worth to you to know the correct solves for clues 1 thru 3, which for the sake of argument are WWWH, CD, and HOB. What value would you place on that information if those solves could be supported to your satisfaction?

    To Dal and Goofy, I am not attempting to create a firestorm with this post. I hope you will agree that with all the time, energy, and $$$ that have been expended over the past 6+ years by searchers, it’s a fair question to ask.

      • So to be clear, if you find the TC worth an estimated $2+ million, then and only then would you pay $1000 to the source who provided you with the correct solve for clues 1 thru 3?

        I appreciate your response. I may comment once a reasonable time passes for others to respond.

        • Hi Blue Wolverine,

          To play with word interpretations, you said “So to be clear, if you find the TC worth an estimated $2+ million, then and only then would you pay $1000 to the source who provided you with the correct solve for clues 1 thru 3?”

          The only source who could provide the correct solve for clues 1 thru 3 is Forrest or the person holding Indulgence in their hands. If someone other than Forrest is holding Indulgence in their hands, why would they want to pay another person for something they have solved themselves?

          Not following the logic in the question.

      • Blue, it was a ridiculous hypothetical question and you got a ridiculous answer. sorry to let you down.

    • $00.00

      Forrest has said that the first few clues are the most difficult and that the clues get (relatively?) easier after that.

      If you had the first three clues correctly solved, it should be no mean feat to decipher the remaining clues and go get the chest for yourself?

      At any rate, no way to “know” that your solution to any clue is correct…..unless you have the chest!!!!

      LOL! Good Luck to Ya Blue W!

      • I understand your skepticism. Let me see if it can be addressed to your satisfaction.

        There could be several reasons why a solver cannot go get the chest. Distance, $$$$, disability come to mind.

        And let me reiterate, the solve of the first 3 clues must be revealed to your satisfaction or you have no obligation to the solver. If you are not satisfied after the reveal of the solve, you walk.

        Does that help?

    • Well since he has said( I believe) that if he told you where the HOB was, you would walk right to the chest. Soooooo, I would give half the value of the chest in hoping that I could give him back his bracelet and sell some on the contents and keep some. I think the big money is going to be when the “Oprah” show and the like start calling. Late show, Tonight Show, magazines, etc…..


      • To be clear, I am asking what you would pay upfront for the 3 solves. This is not contingent on you finding the chest. I’m asking what you would pay upfront, and the other party disappears. After that, everything accrues to you.

        • OK Blue,
          Let’s cut to the chase.
          You will have to pay me $1000 to have me look at your 1st 3 clues cause I’ll never be able to recover that lost time in my life.
          Not only that, I may be laughing so hard, I may need to be hospitalized.
          That’s my final offer.

          • If they 3 solves lead to the chest or I walk, I still think 1/2 the value is fair. Not saying I have that kind of coin laying around but we are being hypothetical, correct? I’m certain the shows, magazines, etc….., will net a very lovely chunk of change to the finder. IMO.


          • Dear JF,
            IMO, the only laughing that seems appropriate regarding the chase would be FF’s laughing. He was laughing on his way back to the car 6 years ago, and in all likelihood, has been laughing to this very day.

            But laugh if you must, esp if it soothes your soul.

      • Good grief another one………How many does this make selling clues?


        If you have something to say Blue say it…….Otherwise take it to Ebay or start your own website to hock your clues.

        • Goofy,
          I am not hocking anything and have no intention of doing as you suggested. I see a lot of flailing not just here but also on other sites. So I posed a hypothetical situation to see what value searchers would place on a risk-free proposition. That is all.

          • Well Blue, I’ll bite on your hypothetical sale, but an explanation will be needed to understand my answer.
            Lets say “John Doe” or JD (sorry JD hehe) came to us professing to know the first 3 clues and wanted to sell them privately to anyone who would pay…let’s say 10,000 dollars. That means JD could basically sell it to 100 people and make a million dollars. Sounds like a great plan right? Well, not really. Let me explain…
            FIRST, you have 2 out of 4 people or 50% of all searchers that will not believe your information is accurate at all. This is because they believe that their way is the right way, and everyone else are just here as eye candy *cough* *cough* seek *cough*. We call these people Supremacist Searchers.
            SECOND, another 25% believe there must be a certificate of authenticity and veracity signed by Forrest Fenn with the deal before they could ever consider it legit information. We call them Purist Searchers.
            THIRD, the remaining 25% are polite, open to ideas, and listen to other’s interpretations, but after all of the fake or failed claims to the treasure that have been brought forward, this group is too gun shy about trusting anyone’s information, and instead will try to subtly “needle” the truth out of John Doe for free. We call these people …normal.

            You might be better off telling John Doe to go to Las Vegas and ask everyone there about this offer….because the experts in this matter exist there. We call them gamblers 🙂

      • JF,
        Please read my clarification above. It’s self-explanatory while still playing within the rules of this wonderful site.

          • yes, I feared it would get misinterpreted. I am well aware of previous searchers posting solves for sale, but the difference is those are sales with no recourse once payment is made. The situation I articulated has the solver going first with their reveal of clues 1 – 3. At that point, the listener can walk away and retain the info or proceed by putting some skin in the game. To me, that’s a very big difference. But ok, whatever. It’s not my website.

          • Blue Wolverine………

            You remind me of that barker in a covered wagon selling me a tonic that I didn’t even know I needed.

            While showmen pitching miraculous cures have been around since classical times, the advent of mixed performance and medicine sales in western culture originated during the Dark Ages in Europe after circuses and theatres were banned and performers had only the marketplace or patrons for support. Mountebanks, or fake doctors, traveled through small towns and large cities, selling miraculous elixirs by offering small street shows and miraculous cures.

            Perhaps we can learn from you, so our reading of your posts are not a total waste.

      • Have you actually seen the first three clues? I mean boots on the ground , been there? If not, and you are going by what you think you’ve solved, then zero is the value.

        If you had pictures, history, research, etc.. to back up your “guess’, well then the value would also be zero, because it seems you are unwilling to give that info.

        So, here’s a question, what makes you think you know exactly what the difference between a hint and a clue is in f’s mind? You cannot possibly know, so, again, the value of misinformation is ZERO.

        You should have asked, what is the value of what I think the first three clues are. And guess what the answer is???

    • First you would have to explain why you feel so confident that you do indeed have the first 3 clues

    • BW,

      For the sake of argument and interesting conversation, if any of us were willing to know your solve, lets be clear on that, your solve, which you believe are the answers to the, for arguments sake first three clues; WWWH, CD & HOB. How much do YOU think its worth?
      I ask you to keep in mind that FF has said there are (9) Clues in the Poem. So if you’ve figured 1/3 of the solve, should we assume you would be looking at a 1/3 value of the chest?
      Wouldn’t the question be better posed as, “I believe I have solved three of the nine clues in the Poem, I’d be willing to share this information with other searchers who were willing to pay me a 1/3 the fetched value if the chest was found”
      Just saying…
      I think I’m more curious as to your motive then your solve. Your hypothetical question would be like me asking how much someone on this blog would pay me for a Ferrari with no engine, but is brand new? You interested?


      • Like they say in the used car business… there’s an a$$ for ever seat.

        We might as well buy all those books that claim they know all as well.

        • Seeker,

          Truer words were unfortunately never said. I’m always amazed at comments like this and I have to ask myself, “What is this person thinking or are they thinking at all”. I mean, its like someone you never met trying to sell you a 1/3 (lol) eaten sandwich.
          The only way to prove any solve true is to complete it and find the chest, correct? Or am I missing something? You have to figure all of the clues and find the chest to know that any of your thoughts prior were genuinely correct.
          I wish BW the best in his search, but don’t peddle “cheap wares” that you have no way of proving true.

          My opinion only….just saying.


  45. I would prefer not to say why, but if Blue Wolverine really had the first three clues, IMO he would be hawking 4 of the clues, and not just 3 of them.
    Now, back to the maps for me…trying to plan my “fly-by” for as soon as the weather allows. Safe searching, everyone!
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

  46. BW,

    Please let me preface my statement by saying that I mean no disrespect. But, if you did have the supposed first three clues answered, then why don’t you complete the solve and find the treasure? Secondly, in my opinion only, I do not believe that the clues you stated above are numerically correct. Again, in my opinion only, I think you are off by one. I believe the first clue is the geographical location i.e. the State where the treasure resides, then you “begin it where ww’s halt”. My reason for stating my opinion as such is that you really can’t technically say that you are selling the first three clues, as you really don’t know if that statement is correct. I don’t know if my statement is correct, nor do the thousands of others doing the same thing. In reality, after near six years no one has found it, so none of us have anything more than good ideas that we hope pan out.

    Lastly, I think the question broaches on being unethical. FF made a decision to create this “quest” from a place of sorrow and finality. This is a man that thought he was going to be taken away from everything he loved, “His Team”, his friends, his dreams of things he still wanted to accomplish,etc. Luckily, for all of us, he decided to take that tragedy and in my opinion, create a quest that allowed people to “live a little”. This is a man that lived an amazing life, a man that reinvented himself to the person he wanted to become. To try and sell, possible at best solutions, kind of cheapens what he’s done here, wouldn’t you at least agree?

    Anyhow, apologies if offense is taken, I am not a soapbox preacher, I am only a student of life.

    Best of luck!

  47. CDN,

    Obviously, without stating, the poem is very tough. Everyone’s interpretation is different, IMO. This is the reason the treasure is still out there.
    Again, IMO only, once any of us discover correctly, where warm waters halt, then we are in the area. As the poem correctly states after you discover where WW’s halt, “not far, but too far to walk”.

    I think the first clue puts us in the right place, the real difficulty is figuring out from there, again my opinion only. Everyone has a different approach and take on the poem and subsequent clues.

    Keep going!! As FF has said, the discovery will be intentional, nothing accidental about it. Whoever finds it will have to have studied and researched. Read the poem over, over and over again.

    Best of luck to you!


    • CDN,

      Apologies, I said the “first clue” I meant the clue where to begin.


  48. Well since there seems to be quite a few people who have figured out the first stanza, is anyone willing to explain to us slow thinkers?

  49. dal– I have a question for Forrest if he’d be willing to snswer this. If this gas been asked before, my apologies. My question is this: could a blind person solve the puzzle by hearing and memorizing it by heart?

    Or would they need to “see” it through Braille to solve it?

    Thanks, Sparrow

    • Joe-
      Interesting question…
      I think you should send it to him. His email is on his website. Maybe he’ll answer it over on Jenny’s site…

      • Dal,

        Curious as to your thoughts about the opening stanza of the poem. “As I have gone alone in there, and with my treasures bold”.
        I have always felt that somehow the sentence wasn’t right. By that I mean typically when the word bold is used as a descriptor of an action, there are usually others present to validate or concur, which in FF’s case we know he was alone. Now, I understand that it can be used as an adjective to describe his actions. But, FF was an adventurer, an outdoorsman, so I’ve always felt it wouldn’t be very bold of an action for someone like him to go alone. It would be bold however, if he went in alone and there was actual risk associated with the action. Risk of being caught, etc. He’s also said don’t go looking for it in a place an 80 year old couldn’t have hid it. Again, bold wouldn’t fit that description.
        Anyhow, was interested as to your pondering’s on this……


        • I believe “with my treasures bold” he is telling us how adventurous he is. Nothing significant in that stanza. Interpret as this; “boldly I have gone in there alone with my treasures.”

          • Hi Debi — if you haven’t found anything in the first stanza, I recommend you keep looking. The wording of that stanza is odd because Forrest is trying to do two things at once. Remember, he was an “architect” when he put this poem together, and there is more there than meets the eye on a casual reading.

          • When you figure out where “in there” is, you will be well on your way. IMO

            TRY to STAY SAFE and Good Luck


        • TSHB,

          I hope I’m not crazy, but I think, IMO, the word “bold” is describing the word “treasures”. One definition of bold is: ‘standing out prominently’. Like in this sentence: ‘He painted with bold colors.’

          The treasures are now hidden in the chest; but when we open the chest and look at the treasures, I believe the treasures will be described as ‘bold’. Synonyms of bold: noticeable, brilliant, catchy, commanding, conspicuous, dramatic, emphatic, eye-catching, flamboyant, remarkable, showy, flashy, etc.

          I hope that helps.

        • To me; AS = since – therefore “Since I went alone in there, and with my treasures bold…”(sic) Again, to me, the treasures are what are bold – Bold in their quantity, bold in their opulence, Bold in their beauty.

          Why alone “IN THERE”? – alone so as not to be observed. Where is “In there?” again, for me, “In there” is revealed using the clues found in the poem. For me, “In there” = a specific geographical area, A very large grouping of trees, a smaller group of trees, a group of rocks, and a stream.

          Sounds complicated, but it really is not.

          This progression of “In there” takes the searcher from a global view of where the treasure is secreted to an EXACT view of where the treasure lies.

          Just the mutterings of an old man – JDA

          • Should havve been, “Since I have gone alone in there and with my treasures bold…” (sic) – sorry JDA

    • I’m gonna go out on a limb here, and say probably not.

      I think “look quickly down” and “marvel gaze” would lean towards that not being a probability.

    • Joe Sparrow,

      I would love to see / hear Forrest response to that question, I believe he would not answer it with a direct answer though, for it may debunk a certain “muse” of his.


  50. Some food for thought…….We all know based on historical information that there are 9 clues in the poem and that FF has said not to mess with/alter the poem. So, with that said, one of FF’s statements has been to “start at the beginning”, anyone who starts looking for the blaze first, will never find it.

    So, simple logic says if we are to start it, then we should “Begin it” where WW’s halt, right? I’ve always thought, for no particular reason, other than a gut feeling, that this is not how it starts. I’ve always felt that we needed to find the State it resides in first. Logically we had a map that gave us an enormous land area to cover, then there were additional hints to assist in possibly helping to narrow it down, maybe. (lol)

    For some reason I’ve always had the feeling we needed to know the State, before we could begin where ww’s halt. Anyone else felt that? Curious.


    • What you must know is where you’re going before you go. Otherwise, how would you know where to go? If you don’t know where you’re going any trail will take you there. Happy hunting.

      • Agreed KM. I understand that you have to have a solve to begin the search, I’m just questioning if the actual state in which it resides is somehow hidden in there or alluded to, thats all.

  51. The following is my opinion. The nine clues, or the poem cannot be deciphered if not followed the way it is written. One cannot just start guessing about where to start if one does not follow the clues precisely, exactly. A searcher has to find the starting point and if not found WWWH is of no consequence. Yes, I am saying WWWH is not the beginning but a continuation of the firs stanza’s line of thought. If we cannot grasp this concept we will not decrypt WWWH. The clues are well hidden but no buried in the poem. But why is WWWH so difficult to decipher? Because we think that is the beginning of the search, but it is not. RC.

    • forgive me, i’m 4 years into this… my memory gets shady.
      did f say the “first” clue was most difficult, or WWH is most difficult?

      • I agree with you RC on all points. My gut is just telling me that we need to know the State and that is somehow relative. My rationale is that in order to begin it where ww’s halt, we we need to in what State the quest begins….make sense? I think this is tied into the subsequent map in TFTW, which says the treasure is somewhere on the map. Mind you, Im not suggesting that its a clue or not, I don’t know. I just feel we would first need to figure out where we go to begin it.


  52. So it seems that soooo many searchers have cracked the first stanza. Does anyone of you want to enlighten us slow thinkers into what you cracked?

    • You asked – Here is what I believe stanza #1 means:
      As I have gone alone in there And with my treasures bold,
      The first line is a warning, and a clue:
      As = Since – or Owing to the fact that: Therefore: “Since I have gone alone in there” (sic)…you too should be alone when you go INto where the treasure is hidden…or at least not be observed.

      IN THERE was very important because it prepared me for things to come. Once I had found a location where I thought the treasure was located, I knew that I must look IN that area, not just AT that area. I had to be IN a specific area or place.
      By solving the clues, I determined that “IN THERE” meant: In a particular area, IN a Forest, IN a smaller group of trees, and IN a group of rocks. (Not my actual four)

      “And with my treasures bold” = The Treasure Chest and its contents.
      I can keep my secret where, And hint of riches new and old.
      FF could keep the Treasure Chest’s location a secret, but he could also hint of the riches, both new and old, that were to be found in the Treasure Chest.

      I hope that this helps you or someone else.

      Good luck in your search and TRY to STAY SAFE


    • Hi Gregorious — since I spent a couple thousand hours working on this before finding “something” in that first stanza, I think you would have to call me a “slow thinker”, too. Anyway, if you had discovered something unexpected about the poem after spending so much time on it, would you be inclined to reveal it to everyone — which would unavoidably include those who have only been working on the Chase for a week or two? What if it’s a pretty valuable clue (because of its specificity), and perhaps the most difficult one to solve? (I’m not saying it *is* the hardest clue — there may be a harder one to solve that I have yet to discover — but I found it quite a bit tougher than figuring out WWWH because it requires lateral thinking.) Forrest has claimed that the clues get easier later on, so this is an indication that one or more of the early clues are the main hindrance to finding Indulgence. Suffice to say I would be quite dismayed if someone blurted out the answer on Dal’s or Jenny’s site, but I think anyone who has found it would be wise enough to keep quiet.

      At least you have a slight leg-up: that there is something to be found in that suspiciously benign-looking first stanza. So the scope of your search is 1/6th what mine was. (grin)

  53. I just got an email asking if I thought WWWH might be a laundry machine and if in any of my research I knew if F had one. I thought it was a pretty neat question given some of the stories in the book and I can’t work WordPress to.respond but maybe more would find it interesting anyhow. I have no clue if the family had one- but personally doubt it. I did however research the town’s and time periods F grew up in and I know where he lived in Texas has the first “washateria” (as they would be called) in the entire country. That- coupled with Fs job as a dishwasher- Skippy’s inventions- and the two postmarks bearing 141 and “temp”…and my own Bar experience with all types of commercial water using equipment- generally the distinction is above 140 degrees is “hot”. Since it’s true- F (think of the ‘scalding’ dishwater….he woulda had to know this “hot” temp to clean pots) then it’s also in the postmarks (I call 141 and Temp a “hint/confirmation” in the book that 141 degrees is WWWH. At least that’s where this rambling woman followed the poem.

  54. Just wondering if anyone that has searched Colorado put any emphasis on the chapter concerning the marble story. I found it interesting that the picture is on pg. 33 and the Hwy leading to Marble CO is Hwy 133 and County Road 3. The marbles resemble the shape of Aspen, Marble, and Carbondale to me. Just thinking out loud and IMO.

    • I think F had a hand in the famous Elgin Marbles at one point as well…..and maybe a watch too. Interesting he must have found those Marbles. End papers too.

    • Somehow my street smarts tell me your question may be hoping for more curiosity and less subtribekuglen.

      Here’s me best shot:

      marbles (n.)
      children’s game, from plural of marble (n.); first recorded by that name in 1709 but probably older (it was known in 13c. German as tribekugeln) and originally played with small balls of polished marble or alabaster, later clay; the modern glass ones with the colored swirl date from 1840s.

      Meaning “mental faculties, common sense” is from 1927

      Then again, that’s a loose score…I’m no Pennsylvania Dutch when it comes to Elgin’s..or football….but I’d put a knee down in exchange for the right Marbles most any day of the week.

      knuckle (v.)
      1740, from knuckle (n.), originally in the game of marbles (putting a knuckle on the ground is the hand position preliminary to shooting). To knuckle down “apply oneself earnestly” is 1864 in American English, an extended sense from marbles; to knuckle under “submit, give in” is first recorded 1740, supposedly from the former more general sense of “knuckle” and here meaning “knee,” hence “to kneel.”

  55. One more thing that I have pondered about is the “Big” picture in the middle of page 121 and 124 in the TTOC, Why is Skippy’s picture missing?

  56. @FennShui….I really do think that whole scrapbook was a tribute to the Unknown Soldier. Check out when it was posted and the history of Armistice Day. I don’t think many put two and two together or even understood the history of lighting the flame etc. Compare it.with the Memorial Day (parade) one and there’s a lot of meanings that I’m not sure got across properly. JUST IMO and only mentioned cause you mentioned the Unknown Soldier hoped you might enjoy.

    • Everything In 107 is Armistice day. Even Lincoln…the stamp…the “cap off” salute the year Etc. I think many scrapbooks are like that….maybe not poem clues…but tributes and questions and things that make you think and care about stuff. Lots seem to have solid structural.underlyomg themes to find. Unknown Soldier, o think, is quite important to him and that scrapbook showed a little of his heart…you may be on to.something…

      • FennShui

        Please read this it explains both scrapbook 107 and the Memorial Day one. Hence “FELT” feel ,,,”TIP” ( compensations) being QUIET (cap off moment of silence) communications issues / tangled up phone cord on memorial day “PEOPLE JUST DONT UNDERSTAND” the unsent unsealed letter/message the “AMERICA” breaking the silence- prudence/PROVIDENCE 5 loud speakers. Brave/lost Wilderness/WOODrow. Just reread theArmistice and Memoriam day scrapbooks. It’s plain as day if care about what he’s saying. Personally i thought of them as cool.puzzle/editorials…..but if you’re on the Unknown Soldier maybe they will somehow inspire you to the Madison Square….(or some other PLAZA) all just IMO hope you enjoy.please do read — you’ll see 😉

        RE-TIRED…..ring a bell??
        ^triple entendre there if you read the link. Lol. Sorry too many blueberries in my oatmeal this AM 🙂

        • Interesting Jonsey,

          How do you connect the silverware to Armistice Day? Not being critical, just curious.

          • Personally I thought the “shots” were what people weren’t understNding was important about the drawer. There were 2 diff scrapbooks. One for memorial day and one posted ON Armistice day Nov 11th. The unsent mail to 1921. The year the famous first published “ADDRESS” of armistice prior to Thanksgiving. The cap of salute lain over and the flag stamped half mast FOREVER. Just my take on it. I mentioned as FennShui was asking about the Unknown Soldier and that’s a connection I felt related in an odd way. I never saw anyone mention it That’s all

          • Jonsey, You have some good thoughts. You dig into concepts with good perspectives. Keep up the good work.

            Windy City

        • Thank you for all the information and link. I enjoyed reading about the public address system. My previous acrostic words included horn and pig or gip. I guess gip horn could relate to hear me all. IMO Thanks

      • jonsey1,

        Mention of a most humbling testament is appreciated.

        The marble used for The Tomb of the Unknown Soldier was cut from Colorado Yule Marble Quarry in 1931.

        First Lieutenant Michael Blassi, USAF …was the “original ” honored soldier.

        The ‘first’ Tomb of the Unknown Soldier was “The Civil War Unknown Monument.”

        The “21 Steps” – ( Gratitude in the purest sense of the word).

        No surprise that Forrest Fenn would hold this priceless history close to his heart:

        With Respect,


        • First Lieutenant Michael Blassi, USAF was not the “original ” honored soldier. He was the first and only person to be ID after being entombed at the Tomb of the Unknowns. He was from the Vietnam era. He has been relocated to The Jefferson Barracks National Cemetery here in Saint Louis where he was raised in accordance with his family’s request. JB is the 2nd largest National Cemetery in the US. When my time comes, that is were I will be laid to rest. It is unlikely that anyone else will be entombed in the Tomb of the Unknowns again, due to DNA testing which can ID most everyone nowadays. There are still the remains of 3 unknowns entombed there. One each from WW1, WW2, and the Korean war. The remains of the WW1 soldier was brought home on the ship that my Great Uncle served on at the time, the USS Olympia.

        • Just below the Yule Mine, was once the world’s largest marble manufacturing plant. It was demolished twice by avalanches.

          I attended stone carving workshops on the site of this plant for 13 out of 15 years, until the elevation (a little over 8,000′) became too much for my heart. Such fond memories of MARBLE/Marble and this area.


          • Wow JD- way to cool!! What else is out that way….and neat little nooks /crannies or folk type incidentals/curiosities you care tomelaborate on?seems like a real interesting place….is there limestone there too? I’d love to hear more if you’re sharing

      • Scraptbook 107 was also posted on Armistice day with 1921noted as first year. Forgot to include.

        Love the link too SL-thanks!!!

  57. Honestly I don’t know diddly about poetry, but it strikes me as being very yin and yang. Old and new, warm and cold, meek and brave.
    I think the double omega is the end of the end which is the beginning. Everything comes full circle.
    When he says the end is drawing nigh I think he is telling us the blaze is an omega symbol and we are close to it. Just a thought.

  58. Brian— I was watching the interview with Forrest in the bookstore from a few years back where he answers some questions. Placed just to his right (not sure if this was done at his request) at the interview is a book by M.C. Escher.

    Escher was famous for drawings that are basically infinite, such as two hands with pens drawing each other, etc. The artwork is fantastic. Check it out if you haven’t seen it. But I take this to be a hint regarding the poem— that it somehow “mirrors” an ides or begins where it ends, etc.

    Just thought I’d add that as you mentioned “ying and yang”. Happy Hunting!

  59. The following is my opinion and opinion only. If a searcher is looking for adventure she or he may never find the treasure chest. Your final destination will not be what most expect. There will not be water,or even a canyon.

    The poem is our worst enemy, but our best friend as well. Most of us see it as our worst enemy. The poem is as difficult or as easy as you want it to be.

    Nobody who listens more to herself, or himself more than the poem will ever have a chance to solve it. The poem was designed to open for those who open their hearts to it.RC.

  60. RC;

    Your posts ALWAYS sound as if you have found the treasure, but walked away from it… and I find that hard to believe.

    Just because you start every post with the words, “The following is my opinion and opinion only.” Does not give you license to make such grandiose statements. IF you have found it, please show us and Forrest, IF NOT, kindly quit implying that you know the answers, and are just trying to help us poor dumb clucks down the road to enlightenment.

    And, this is just my opinion, and opinion only.

    Good luck and TRY to STAY SAFE.


    • I was going to say something about a pot and kettle, but decided to keep my opinion to myself.

        • Some are; and some, not so much…
          The Poem has nine clues and I sure do want to find out what the heck they are…

          • ken,
            I think these are 3 clues out of the 9.

            WWWH, where the home of Brown is & the blaze.
            Forrest has stated many times you need to figure out the 9 clues.

            Forrest: “The only requirement is that you figure out what the clues mean. But a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help.”
            If he is telling us we need comprehensive knowledge of geography, then I would have to think the clues are places.
            Geography: is the study of places and the relationships between people and their environments.

            Forrest: “I guess you have to know where the home of brown is?” “That’s right & you have to know where warm waters halt”
            You need to know where not what……

            Forrest: “I mean there’s people driving down the street looking for a blaze, because that’s one of the clues.”

            I think it is safe to know these are 3 clues out of the 9.


          • “Comprehensive knowledge of geography…” and “show it to a kid” sort of throws the train of thought into a tail spin. Your 3 out of 9 seem quite plausible and do fit my scenario though. I am using the who what when where and why method to weed through the possibilities…

          • Well, I don’t have that quote “show it to a kid” in my library.
            I don’t save quotes from another person, only the ones Forrest stated.
            Can you show me where he said “show it to a kid”?
            3 out of 9 is 30%
            That’s a good start but would be better if we had the 1st one pinned down.

    • J.D.

      As others have already said, you need to practice what you preach. I’ve read this blog for several months and there are times I’ve wanted to join the conversation.
      But YOU sir, are the predominate reason I choose to not participate.
      Who died and made you hall monitor?
      I’m really surprised that Goofy puts up with your CRAP.

      Just because you say it is your “opinion” does not give you license to police the blog and spew your criticism.

      And now, having said that, I will say this . . . Every time you have gone to search your spot , the water has been too high. Right?

      So, my question to you would be this . . . Do you honestly believe that Forrest would have chosen a spot where the searcher or even Forrest himself, would have to know EXACTLY what day of the year the water would be low enough?

      Did Forrest KNOW what day of the year he would be able to go to the location, and make two trips from his vehicle in one afternoon to the spot, all the while KNOWING the water would not be too high on that particular day?

      And would Forrest have secreted it in a location where any searcher would also need to possess that same divine knowledge? Or did he say that it wasn’t in a dangerous location?

      No offense intended J.D. but, from one ol’ dude to another, you need to chill out brother. You ain’t the only one here who gets excited when they think they know where Indulgence patiently slumbers.

      Not being in third grade, and not really having opined anything other than constructive criticism, I suppose I shall forego the required IMO.

      • I am sorry that I have been a cause of you not commenting. I come across as over-confident, and I always have. It is a fault I have never been able to keep within bounds.

        I am confident in my solve, and if this causes others to be uncomfortable, I apologize – I apologize for making others uncomfortable, but not for being confident in my solve.

        Most of my searches were unsuccessful due to ice, not deep or swift water.

        I do not know how to answer your question regarding how Forrest knew when the right time to secret the treasure was.

        In two weeks, I will know for sure. I will look the fool, or I will hold the coveted prize in my hands. Either way, it has been one heck of a thrill.

        Good luck and TRY to STAY SAFE.


    • @ JD I am sorry that frustration can sometimes get to us, but the whole chase thing would not be fun if we were not passionate individuals. I do believe 100% of what I post, and when the treasure gets found you will look back and understand what I was trying to convey. I do believe the poem is a game of our own making because of the words Mr. Fenn chose , but harmless nonetheless. Open up yourself to it, and you will see. Look at it from this perspective let’s say you find yourself in a very complex labyrinth (the poem) and you go in through one door(the entrance),and you are told to find the exit. The only thing you have to do is think they(Forrest) tell you. There are nine puzzles that you have to decipher, and when you do they take you to the exact door you came from. So all a searcher has to do is think, and not let ourselves get in the way. This is my opinion. RC

      • You may well be right, and maybe you will be the one who solves it. If you do, I will be one of the first to congratulate you.

        Good luck, and STAY SAFE


    • Hi JD – I hear you, brother. A lot of people feel good about their solutions and the enthusiasm which flows from that is great and welcomed. But I think what you’re objecting to is the “If you all only thought like I did you could solve this thing” message. That irritates me too. I kind of reamed out another searcher on this blog for repeatedly sending out what was effectively that message. In retrospect I regret doing it, but I still feel justified in being irritated. Hang in there man, you’re one of the good guys.

      • Thanks Spoon;

        I appreciate the nice words. I do try to be one of the “Good Guys”, but do not always succeed.

        Good Luck in your search and STAY SAFE


        • Don’t let it get to ya JD.
          I’m confident too…
          As confident as I was about my 1st marriage being my last… 🙁
          As confident as I was about retiring from my 1st job… 🙁
          As confident as I was about never getting a speeding ticket… 🙁
          As confident as I am about finding Indulgence… 🙂
          You are one of the good guys… I’m Confident 🙂

        • I have always enjoyed reading your post and communicating with you. Like you, i get fed up from time to time with post from people who KNOW where it is and want to tease the rest of us with cryptic post. Unlike like them you have always given me straight answers to questions and guided me in my thinking.
          Thank you JD aka Hall Monitor, LOLing at that.

          • Thanks ARCA – How goes the search in the Green River area?

            I see that we now have about 25 Wyoming searchers – Mostly in the YNP area – the more the merrier.

            Good luck, and Thanks again for the kind words. TRY to STAY SAFE


          • I’m back!
            I took some time off to catch up on work, enjoy my 3 and 1 year old, and give the pack ahead of me time to find the TC. Since i haven’t heard of anyone wearing Forrest’s bracelet yet, I’m getting back into it. Hopefully by spring (LOL) i’ll be ready for my first adventure (BOTG).
            I can’t believe its only been 9 months since I started on the chase. It seems like years!
            Green River Update Soon.

          • Welcome back – Enjoy the kids, they will grow up quickly.

            I look forward to your Green River update.


  61. JD –

    As we have the same initials – I feel an kinship with you. I like your confidence and think it is a necessary quality to find the answer ……….(s).

    Here’s what Walt said about it……….

    “Somehow I can’t believe that there are any heights that can’t be scaled by a man who knows the secrets of making dreams come true. This special secret, it seems to me, can be summarized in four Cs. They are curiosity, confidence, courage, and constancy, and the greatest of all is confidence. When you believe in a thing, believe in it all the way, implicitly and unquestionable.”
    ― Walt Disney Company

    Wishing you success in all that you do and want.

    • Thanks Inthechaseto.

      I love your quote by Walt Disney. I agree with it wholeheartedly. Curiosity lets you see what is hidden to others; Confidence gives you the strength to believe in yourself when others try to put you down; Courage gives you the strength to fight the demons that seem to appear out of nowhere to block your way and constancy allows you to always keep moving forward at a steady pace, until the goal is reached.

      Thanks again Inthechaseto.

      May you find all that you seek and TRY to STAY SAFE.


  62. Funny, I’ve always found JDs comments to be as responsive and explanatory as possible without giving away the store. Normal discourse with the usual level of testiness and Y- chromosome confidence thrown in. To me, RC reads like that in-your-face coach screaming useless stuff like: YOU GUYS GOTTA THINK HARDER, THINK DIFFERENT, BE SMARTER! His IMO’s seem costume de’ rigueur. But that’s just my take from afar. Let the games continue please.

    • Thanks OS2

      As a twenty year retired Marine, I tend to want people to “Play by the rules.” If I see someone breaking the rules, I tend to say something rather than just letting it pass. I admit that I sometimes speak when it would be better to remain silent. For those time I speak up when I should keep quiet, I apologize. Having been raised in an abusive home, I often wished that someone would have the guts to speak-up, but it rarely happened. How sad.

      Breaking the rules here is not the same, but it touches a tender spot in me that I can not ignore. I am just compelled to speak out if I see someone breaking the rules, or if I see someone “Bullying” someone else.

      Good Luck OS2, in your search, and TRY to STAY SAFE


  63. Just thought I’d chime in here – it’s been a while. Looking at the discussion above, I don’t think either JD or RC should have to apologize for being who they are or promoting with gusto and confidence their view of the poem. All you regular posters are helping to keep the chase alive and interesting.

    As for me, I made three quick dashes to my spot before I had to get on a plane. I did not discover the treasure, but did uncover some elements that I’d been missing. If I’m right, I stood at the blaze and understood the meaning behind Forrest’s reference to marbles, baseball and the running man for the first time. It was a real adventure and I’ll write about it one day.

    So far, all the clues seem to work correctly in my solution, but I have had to add to my original hypothesis. For example, “Look quickly down” has multiple meanings, IMO, and it’s only just become clear to me what the most critical meaning is. With this poem there always seem to be more layers to peel back. I think I have the final few elements in place now, but I need to wait until I can afford to make a 5000 mile journey – to an area I really didn’t expect to be searching – in order to finally put the theory to the test.

    As before, I can’t say too much until I’ve made this final expedition, but I will say this – and PLEASE take it as pure, unfounded conjecture and not as some kind of “I know better than you” diatribe:

    1. The first stanza is helpful both to establish the general start point as well as the resting place. However, there is also a key in the poem that will verify your specific launchpad.
    2. The second stanza provides very precise directions that lead you to a critical spot, along with other helpful info.
    3. After establishing the critical point mentioned above, you need to “free your mind” in order to pinpoint the next critical spot.
    4. Go and reread what FF said about tangents!
    5. You need numbers as well as names to make the poem work.
    6. Words and meanings can be twisted…
    7. Remember that FF has a great sense of humor!!!

    My ideas are worth neither more nor less than anyone else’s, so, as always, take this with a large pinch of salt, and good luck!

    • Thanks Voxpops;

      It sounds like a worthwhile trip. Glad that a few more of the pieces to the puzzle fell into place for you.

      Continued good luck and TRY to STAY SAFE


  64. Many thanks, JD. I hope everyone’s having a lot of fun out there this summer.

    BTW, I saw someone was trying to sell the first three clues, lol! I think quite a number of people have already got those in the bag without needing to pay a finder. Funnily enough, I think that once you have the entry point into the poem, it’s really not so tough getting to HOB. Forrest hints that it gets easier after that, but I’m of the opinion that, without quite a lot of lateral thinking, it’s a real long haul to get through the next bunch of clues, mainly because the poem’s precision becomes less dependent on the words you’re reading at the time and more to do with an overarching interpretation – if that makes any sense at all.

  65. Voxpops;

    The question is where is the entry point.? Those that believe as I do that 1 sentence = 1 clue begin it at the first word of stanza #1. Others believe that one must begin at Stanza #2 – – -“Begin it where…”

    Either way, clue #3 becomes hoB. Although Forrest has said that it becomes easier from there – What is clue #4? Is it “From there it’s no place for the meek,? or is it “From there it’s no place for the meek, The end is ever drawing nigh;” ? Coupling the two lines may give you an entirely different answer, than taking it one line at a time.

    If I can be so bold as to make a suggestion; Try looking at it from both perspectives, and it may clear your thinking a bit.

    This is just my opinion, and what do I know? NADA –

    Good luck with your solve. and TRY to STAY SAFE


    • Figuring out which is the first clue is no easy task. As you state, there are different options. Or, even beyond the first clue can be confusing. An example being: BIWWWH / ATITITCD one clue or two?

      Good luck in you upcoming search.

      Semper Fi,

      Windy City

    • JD, although I believe the very first words of stanza 1 will give you a strong hint, the first direct clue is BIWWWH. However, that’s not the entry point to the poem in my solution!

      IMO, the place to begin is logical and can be checked out by the words in stanza 2, since they are so precise, but it lies elsewhere in the poem. Unfortunately, it becomes so obvious after realizing it, and works so precisely, that I can no longer see it any other way. Of course I could be self-delusional, but what follows on from there fits so snugly…

      So, “From there…etc.” is definitely the next clue, but in my mind it doesn’t matter too much how you number the clues (although I agree that the nine sentences are the clues); it’s more important to pay attention to punctuation (BIG hint).

      Because there appears to be strong verification in the poem up as far as the blaze, it’s not too ridiculously hard to get to that point, IMO, but the final segment is difficult to pin down as it relies on imaginative thinking and a somewhat unexpected, though still logical, twist. And unfortunately, I missed something in the poem related to the end game that stares you in the face once you uncover it. Like I said, layer upon layer.

      Everyone interprets the poem in their own way, and there have been some fascinating and truly imaginative readings of it. But although, like everyone else, I’m empty handed, I am, paradoxically perhaps, even more happy with my solution than before. And that’s because it seems that nothing is left to guesswork in the end… and it made me laugh out loud! If I’ve fallen prey to a classic case of misdirection, Forrest has still managed to put a huge grin on my face.

  66. What I think the 9 clues are- Everything that ends with a period or a question mark.

    1. As I have gone alone in there And with my treasures bold, I can keep my secret where, And hint of riches new and old.

    2. Begin it where warm waters halt And take it in the canyon down, Not far, but too far to walk.
    3. Put in below the home of Brown.

    4. From there it’s no place for the meek, The end is ever drawing nigh; There’ll be no paddle up your creek, Just heavy loads and water high.

    5. If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, Look quickly down, your quest to cease, But tarry scant with marvel gaze, Just take the chest and go in peace.

    6. So why is it that I must go And leave my trove for all to seek?
    7. The answers I already know, I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.

    8. So hear me all and listen good, Your effort will be worth the cold.
    9. If you are brave and in the wood I give you title to the gold.

    • I 100% agree – Now all we have to do is figure out what each of the clues means.

      Good Luck in your search and TRY to STAY SAFE


    • Very interesting to see you use the whole poem.
      5. If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, Look quickly down, your quest to cease, But tarry scant with marvel gaze, Just take the chest and go in peace.

      I will post it again in case you missed the memo.
      Forrest: “. I mean there’s people driving down the street looking for a blaze, because that’s one of the clues. ”

      So tell me how all those words in that phrase are one of the 9 clues?
      Brian, JD, whoever…….

      • There are 9 distinctly defined sentences, that does not mean that every word in every sentence is relevant. I may be as wrong as everyone else, but if he says there are 9 clues and there are 9 defined sentence structures it seems pretty obvious to me. What do you think the 9 clues are?

        • Brian,
          Some of us here are in denial in exactly what Forrest states at times.
          Maybe because it will blow there solve right out of the water.
          This is the video of Forrest stating the blaze is one of the clues.
          A little over 1 min in.
          Listen good

          This is my take on the 9 clues.
          1 – Begin it where warm waters halt
          2 – And take it in the canyon down,
          3 – Put in below the home of Brown.
          4 – From there it’s no place for the meek,
          5 – The end is ever drawing nigh;
          6 – There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
          7 – Just heavy loads
          8 – water high.
          9 – blaze,

          • Those are very specific and I was leaning in that direction myself, but let me ask you this- If the clues to finding it are over and done at “blaze” then why write 2 1/2 more stanzas? Why not just wrap it up there? Or with one more. I think there may be more to it.

          • You ask me why & I ask you why not?
            The rest of the poem appears to be self explanatory & leaves nothing more to be figured out.

            But don’t hang around when you see the chest cause you’ll be cold & wet in the woods.

          • Believing in the 1 sentence/1 clue system requires you to believe Fenn was being slippery when he said, “Sounds like 3 or 4 to me” in response to the interviewer reading the entire 2nd stanza (2 sentences) and saying it sounded like there was a clue in there. I see at least two clues in the first stanza, which again would be a violation of the 1 sentence = 1 clue hypothesis. WWWH is a standalone clue and does not depend on what follows in that stanza. So if you are a one sentence one clue advocate, then you believe that “take it in the canyon down, not far, but too far too walk” is not a clue.

          • Jake, How do you reconcile 9 clues to be the nine you mention and stopping at he blaze… to what these two comments from fenn say? [ and others ]

            “There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them…”

            “I mean, there’s people driving down the street looking for a blaze, because that’s one of the clues, but you can’t start in the middle of the poem and find the treasure, I don’t think, I mean, it would be a miracle if someone did.”

            Your nine leaves out more than 3 stanzas of words… ” risky to discount any of them”

            Your 9th and ending clue as the blaze… to… ” because that’s one of the clues, but you can’t start in the middle of the poem and find the treasure, I don’t think, I mean, it would be a miracle if someone did.”

            I mean these sound pretty straightforwards to me, how about you?

          • Seeker,
            I am obviously not starting in the middle of the poem.
            I think you know where I am starting & is not the middle.
            Would it be fair to say the middle of the poem is the 3rd & 4th stanzas?
            Or if we take into focus we can say the last line of stanza 3 & the 1st line of stanza 4 where the blaze resides is the middle.
            There are 6 stanzas, so where would the middle really be?
            How about the space in between the 3rd & 4th stanzas?
            Would you say this is the absolute middle of the poem?
            You see my point here?

            Is not The Thrill of the Chase a risk anyway?
            I would have to say it is.
            Risky to discount any of them.

            I ask you & all, now that we know 3 of the clues & one of them is a single word “blaze”.
            How are you going to figure it out without discounting any of the words because you think it’s too risky?

            “There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure”
            So, go ahead & tell me you are going to use all the words when all are not needed to find the treasure & while you’re at it, tell me everyone’s meaning of “few”.
            You can’t, because most everyone’s meaning of few is different.

            The poem is pretty straightforward as I see it, but others can’t see it.

          • Okay Jake, I listened well. What I hear is him saying “people driving down the street looking for a blaze because that’s one of the clues,BUT, you can’t start in the middle of the poem and find the treasure, I don’t think”. Sounds to me like he is saying the blaze is the middle clue. Whether it be 4 or 5, the blaze is the middle clue. You have the blaze as the last clue.

            The blaze line is the middle of the poem, so it seems he is saying. So you can’t start at the blaze and find the treasure. But, you have the blaze as the last clue, when you do find the treasure. Does that sound correct to you?

            If the poem is suppose to be straightforward, then wouldn’t the last line seem like it would be the last clue? Then, there are no more pieces of the puzzle to put together. You have the whole picture. Solving at line 13 or 16 leaves pieces of the puzzle still on the table and an incomplete picture.

            Not trying to put your solve down, just trying to think logically about it. Do I believe that is what f did in writing the poem. 9 clues in 13 or 16 lines? I just don’t see it.

          • charlie: “Sounds to me like he is saying the blaze is the middle clue.”
            He didn’t say that, you are assuming that & that’s that.

            charlie: “Whether it be 4 or 5, the blaze is the middle clue.”
            How do you know this charlie? It’s in the middle of the poem.

            charlie: “The blaze line is the middle of the poem, so it seems he is saying. So you can’t start at the blaze and find the treasure. But, you have the blaze as the last clue, when you do find the treasure. Does that sound correct to you?”
            YES, this sounds correct to me.

            charlie: “If the poem is suppose to be straightforward, then wouldn’t the last line seem like it would be the last clue?”
            NO charlie, that is not straightforward nor logical. It would be logical to begin where he stated to & cease where he states. That is straightforward & logical.

            The picture is far from complete from where you cease. There is a lot of info left in the poem to help you but no clues from there.

            I understand you don’t see it & don’t expect everyone to see it.
            I see it & that’s all that matters.

          • And that’s fine with me Jake. If that is what you see then that is what it is. I’m not going to discourage you or say it’s right or wrong. It’s just I don’t see it, that’s all.

            But now, since you have your solve, would it be a good idea to try different approaches to solving the poem? If you do not see any other way, does that seem logical? There are various ways to look at the poem for a solve, to think all the different ways would end in 13-16 lines just doesn’t mesh. But, if you have it, you have it. What else is there to say.

            I’ll email you something and you let me know.

          • charlie: “But now, since you have your solve, would it be a good idea to try different approaches to solving the poem?”
            NO, I have to prove my solve is wrong before I can go any further in thinking any other way.
            I think most of all would agree with this logic.

          • Hey Jake,

            Have you considered the possibility that Begin it where warm waters halt / and take it in the canyon down, may be 1 clue?

            Windy City

          • Windy,
            No, I have considered such, but you still have to figure each one separately & Forrest stated you need to know WWWH. That tells me this a clue all by itself.

      • Ah Jake, you are so right. Maybe they didn’t watch enough Scooby-Doo as a kid. A clue is a clue.

          • He’s out there somewhere. Has my orange hiking stick and is patiently waiting for me to come get it. : )

          • I don’t know the area you left your stick at, but I would bet it’s still there where you left it.
            I know if I saw one & needed it, I would just borrow it for the hike & leave it where I found it when done.
            That’s just me though.

      • For me, it is the continuation of a single thought. Sure, there are capital letters at the beginning of each line, but that is a result of it being a poetic style. It has NOTHING to do with ending one thought, and beginning another.

        Just my opinion, but what do I know? NADA

        TRY to STAY SAFE Jake


        • I’m confused JD,
          Maybe you are to.
          What does this have to do with the question I just asked?
          Have you ever saw & listened to the video before?
          Did you hear what Forrest said?
          “blaze, because that’s one of the clues”
          Are you hearing something different than I?
          Or are you just ignoring what he said?

          • “I mean there’s people driving down the street looking for a blaze, because that’s one of the clues. ”

            Maybe the clue is driving? You know the whole “too far to walk” thing…

          • Okay Jakester- You responded to my posting of the Mark Twain quote about “what you know for certain” with your ‘Overconfidence is an invitation for failure’. A few days later Mr Fenn posted the same Twain quote on Jennys site. I’m just wondering if you have any thoughts on that…Thanks, Wendell

          • Now you have my undivided attention wendell.
            I am glad you pointed that out to me.
            You posted it on the 2nd here & Forrest had it posted on the 9th on MW, correct?
            The only thing I can think of now is that you spurred a spark in Forrest to post that quote that may not be from Twain.
            Did you happen to send him any info on your solve?
            There is a connection here that I cannot see but there is clearly a connection in some way, no doubt.
            If you do not feel comfortable elaborating here, you can email me & we can discuss the possibilities of this clear intention.
            I will need more time to think about this & it’s relevance.

      • Brian and I agree, “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze…etc.” IS one of the clues. We are just including the additional three lines as part of a continuing thought. At the end of that thought, we go on to the next clue.


        • I think the clues are something that needs to be figured out.
          Like, what is the blaze? Where do warm waters halt? Where is the home of Brown?
          If you’ve been wise and found – seems pretty straightforward to me. Doesn’t appear to be anything to be figured out here especially after he stated the blaze is one of the clues. You need to figure out what the blaze is.

          • Hey Jake,

            I vacillate between “in” (first line) being the word that is key–suggesting shelter (for me)–, and “wise”, suggesting some particular way to look for the blaze.

            Now I’m stuck on “in”.

            flailing ideas for wise:
            3 Wise men; look west, go west
            somehow my gut says “look up”
            my gut also says “the color red”

            goodness my gut has a lot to say today


          • Now don’t get stuck “in” there alone Joseph…
            I always thought “in” was the opposite of “out”.
            Here’s an idea for “wise”, how about Sapiens…..
            Your gut may be telling you, you’re hungry.
            Use your heart & mind instead.
            So when are you heading out anyway?

          • Jake, I agree with your logic. While I have not been an avid participant on the site, I have been at it myself for a couple years now.
            I think that your approach on looking at it straight forward is a good one. I would say additionally to that, it is important to look at all the words in context. What I mean by that is each of our interpretations is different. For example, “There’ll be no paddle up your creek” You and I may interpret that as 1.) a Dry Creek (stream) 2. A parallel to the old saying “up the creek without a paddle” 3. We may interpret is a directional clue, “head up” in the larger context. Just examples mind you for conversation.
            I do belive the clues are in order, by this meaning, again just example, we couldn’t find the blaze until we found where warm waters halt. I think each clue and their order are specific in placement. I also do not believe that they are solely based in geography. Each one is geographic, but there is meaning to the location to know where you are or to begin.
            Just thoughts……


          • I’ll buy that Sleepy,
            The creek I’m heading to again had a paddle wheel back in the day & is no longer there. That’s just a small tidbit to the big picture.
            Very nice in all you said.

          • Jake,
            When do I depart?
            me: now! now! now!
            wife: I’m not sure we have time this fall

            I want to make it a geology lesson for my boy, but if I have to I’ll drive straight there walk the few hundred ft to my spot and then either drive back to Seattle or to Santa Fe hehe. Did I just jinx me?

            My only real criteria are after school starts and before snow starts. My ideal would be last week of Aug or first of Sept.

            pdenver, I was reading somewhere the other day of trusting your gut.

          • Joseph,
            I wish I could go now, now, now!
            Not gonna be till Sept for me as well.
            Maybe we can hook up & eat some crow together?
            I know a place where it’s prepared in such a way, you will always come back for more.
            I will let you know my itinerary when it’s set & will let Dal know as well.
            I think Dal said he may be able to pop over there if possible in Sept.
            It is a beautiful place whether we find it or not.
            Been worth every penny as far as I’m concerned.

          • Hey Jakester-
            Didn’t you find it a little ironic that I posted that Twain quote and a few days later Mr Fenn referenced the same quote?

  67. Posing a question, as a little food for thought and some interesting conversation. If I’m not mistaken, and please correct me if I’m wrong, FF said that at one point he was intending to go with the treasure to it’s final resting place. With that said, would it stand to reason that the place itself would have to be large enough to house the treasure (not very big) and a human being? Further, it would also have to be not very close to a human trail and not be able to be found “by accident” or stumbled upon. Make sense so far and factual?
    FF also gave us all a few added clues or tidbits, whichever your preference, when he said over various statements that the treasure was not associated with a graveyard, mine, cave or structure,etc.
    I have always personally thought that the “place” was almost to some degree “mausoleum like”, not to the extreme, but large enough to house both the treasure and ff for a long time. Think King Tut, but smaller and in the woods 8 + miles north of Santa Fe.
    My question for thought/comment is, would a “Ruin” constitute a structure? Architecturally speaking a structure is something that is organized together and can typically sustain or support itself. Archeologically speaking, when they discuss various ruins around the globe, they are typically, in the case of a building or Roman Bath, etc. referred to or described as former structures.

    Any thoughts…….


    • Apologies.. I meant to post this in Odds-n-Ends. Was typing and not paying attention.

    • In my humble opinion, a ruin would be considered a structure. Secondly, finding ANYTHING in an archeological ruin, and removing it would be a felony. i doubt that Forrest would place a searcher in such a position.

      Just my humble opinion.

      Good question though – Take care and TRY to STAY SAFE – away from old ruins.


      • JD,

        Let me re-phrase. I’m not saying it is an archeological ruin or dig site, I was saying that archeologically speaking ruins are typically considered to be former structures as they do not pass the criteria any longer to constitute a structure technically.

        I am more leaning towards the ideology that, there are ruins scattered all over the place, that are not currently considered archaeologically significant. Such as the ruins of a cabin in the woods, the ruins of an old settlement or homestead that are abandoned, etc.

        If FF was going to go with the treasure would it make sense that the space would have to be large enough? In other words, he wasn’t going to go with the treasure under a rock or in a random tree hollow. Just thinking out loud, not intending to sound definitive. I am just rationalizing.


        • I guess you have to ask yourself at what point does an old abandoned cabin stop being a structure?

          Among several definitions is the following:
          something built or constructed, as a building, bridge, or dam.

          Even if it is derelict and falling down, is it not something that was built or constructed?
          So to me a ruin will always be a structure.

          Just my opinion, but what do I know? NADA

          Hope you find all that you seek – STAY SAFE


    • TSHB,

      I am of the opinion that due to Forrest’s disdain for the academic archaeologist it would be highly unlikely that the treasure is located in close proximatey to any type of ruin, that would allow the opportunity for some snooty academic type to stumble upon, but I’ll let you be the judge:

      I also believe that any type of old structure in any state of disrepair is still considered a structure.


      • Thanks for the response and opinion. Was curious of others thoughts on the topic.

        All the best.

    • TSHB, if a place is known to be “a ruins’, I don’t think that the
      place is likely to be free of structures (even though they may
      not be complete — as in “like new” condition — any more.

      A well-known “ruins” location is likely to in close “proximaty” to
      a human trail, don’t you think? This would tend to exclude that
      particular “ruins” location from serious consideration as the
      hidey spot, in my opinion.

      Good luck in your search.

    • Well Vox, I think you have the beginnings of a new Subaru commercial. Although I don’t think you were feeling the love when you came back to a flat tire. 🙂

      • You wouldn’t believe what I put that car through, Goofy. I don’t even think Subaru would have believed it! And yeah, my heart sank when I saw that flat. But it’s these kind of things that make for great memories.

  68. Sorry, Dal and Goofy, I think I should have posted that in “Odds and Ends” – please feel free to move it.

  69. Great! Glad it was the thrill of the chase, and not pokemon that got you outdoors. Too bad your sedan got a flat.

    • It was Pokemon (but I think I was a little off-target)!!

      You know, I only found out what Pokemon Go was about a month ago – I may be just a tad behind the times. I think I’ll just stick to the old-fashioned treasure hunting. As for the flat, I was just being a drama queen, but I must admit I forgot to check that I had a jack on-board before setting off.

  70. Hi, All
    I like this exercise to see how others interpret FFs words.

    For me:
    #1 is the fact that RF could go in and out of where the chest is solo.. unaided.
    ‘As I have gone alone in there’ .
    It also hints to inside a distinct place: forrest, cave, canyon… whatever.

    #2 ‘ I can keep my secret where, a hint of riches new and old.
    This definite place shows a cycle of new and old. Forrests are the embodiment of this by having trees from saplings to ancient behemoths.
    Or in strictly human terms, old run down foundation in the vicinity of contemporary buildings.

    #3 ‘ Beginning it where warm….WH.
    Is the third clue telling exactly where to begin your search to follow through the clues to the final Blaze, where your search ends.

    However the poem continues to deliver more clues after you reach the Blaze..

    That’s my brain typed down into blog..

    Have Fun !

    • I think those are clear and rational. At this point I believe he means forest when he says “in there.”

      • I agree with you. In there, seems to me to be a more natural boundary with some expanse to it.
        With that clue, it narrows down a few million acres : D

    • Bryan ~ “#2 ‘ I can keep my secret where, a hint of riches new and old. This definite place shows a cycle of new and old. Forrests are the embodiment of this by having trees from saplings to ancient behemoths. Or in strictly human terms, old run down foundation in the vicinity of contemporary buildings.”

      Are you imply that the poem might be related to time? just curious. On another note or two; the cave and mines are out of the running, as well as old rundown foundations could be implying a structure, which fenn has eliminated as not associated with the chest itself. So are you saying the old foundation is another clue or the place the chest lays in wait? I just need some clarification on what you’re saying.

      • Hi Seeker,
        No, I don’t think the entire poem is related to time in a way that is relevant to find the treasure. What I interpret as clue#2 does mention a hint of new and old. I think of this as a more symbolic hint, and going along with FF style. Indeed he does nix
        Foundations, outhouses and other human- made structures overtly.
        I used the analogy of a forrest here because it embodies renewal, with both new and old, and a person can go ‘in there’. As the second clue, I don’t intend that the chest is there. FF does say that a person can follow the clues (in order?) To end up at the chest location. 😀

        • If I read what you are saying correctly, Bryan, you are saying that, all of stanza #1 is clue #2. Is that correct? If so, where is clue #1?

          I firmly believe that something in stanza #6 points to “In there” in stanza #1, but I am not willing to say that something in stanza #6 is clue #1. Are you saying something like that?

          Just curious.


          • Wow light bulb moment thanks to your post about stanza 6 and stanza 1.
            Can’t wait to research this when i get home from work.

          • Hi JDA,
            I’m thinking that stanza 1 has two clues in it, but does not necessarily have the beginning point of the chase. That’s all. For me clue 1 is line 1.

          • Brian;

            If you use the one line = one clue formula, I can see where you could get more than one clue from stanza #1.

            I, on the other hand, follow the one sentence = one clue formula – therefore for me, there is only one clue in stanza #1 – I see more than one element, but only one clue.


          • uh oh JDA, I can see, and have seen for quite awhile. stanza 6 can support stanza one. For me, you can solve the poem from line 1-24. The spot that reveals itself in stanza 6 could also be seen through the eyes of him already being there and looking back through stanza one. Does that sound right? Confused myself…

            Okay, I have a spot, stanza 1 could actually be him, looking back on his path. So, stanza 1 could be seen as him looking back, but I only get as far back as the 8th clue. Which for me, stanza 6 holds clues 8 and 9.

            Stanza 1 could give you the same answer as stanza 6. Or at least one way of looking at the possible many.

            Example, if stanza 6 clue 8 is a set of coordinates, and clue 9 is a distance and direction clue, stanza 1 could start me from the spot, line 1, and by the time I’m done with stanza 1, I would be at the coordinates. But like I said, stops there. Stanza 2 doesn’t keep me going back through clues 7-1. IMO…

          • Charlie,
            Here is where you and I agree and disagree. I working a something along the same lines as your comment started out, which involves the, start at the beginning, and the know where to start concept.
            The first two clues work in combination as to know why and where. The remainder of the clues simple lead right back to where you are… however… there is no movement by you [ the searcher ] its all a view that can only be seen from that vantage point. Basically you are standing almost on top of the chest.

            “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze…past tense for a reason, you have to understand that you’ve Found it.
            It will be know at that time to be the correct point. So is the Blaze in the poem or “only” in the field? Well, try answering that question.

            The fact is [ in this theory ] you would know clues one and two, with clue one having the most significant understanding, and why you will not know for sure you have it right, until you have the chest.
            No stomping out individual points.. yet they are points [ places ] no need for a vehicle or horse or drones, not swimming in 6′ of moving water or drudging through marsh land. No US history, important people, major research, knowing bible verses and on and on. You’re viewing it all from another perspective… a mirror perspective if you will.

            Does this help with “not far but too far to walk” to understand that the distance is not distance at all? Why fenn doesn’t need to travel up and down a canyon twice?
            Why one should linger a bit with marvel gaze… and the reason why ‘you’ [the searcher] should begin it wwwh? You need to ‘see’ that point… to bring you to where you are, to be correct.

            Scant… why does fenn feel like he’s talking in circles.

            “Do expect that people will somehow *know* for sure once they have found the first clue?
            No, many people have found the first clue but they didn’t know it. Until someone finds  the treasure they will not know for sure that they have discovered the first clue.”

            “Or they might have found it without realizing it? Yes”

            “*A good solve is frequently lost in a poor execution”

            “*You will ignore the poem at your own peril ”

            “I think the problem that searchers make is that they don’t dwell long enough on the first clue.”

            In this theory, and if correct, we read the poem in our minds as directional that we need to stomp out. We make our own illusion because we get trapped by words we think mean things we need to do physically… ” don’t go where and 80 year old man can’t go ” We see “follow” as movement, we see take it in as movement, we see put in as movement.
            imo this is the house of mirrors we make it out to be.

            Of course it’s still a theory… one still in the making.

          • Seeker: with great trepidation for fear of causing any offense, I was curious if English might possibly be a second language for you? I know in the past you have explained that you hate typing, but it seems like your typos are rarely true spelling errors, but rather errors of verb tense, which is not uncommon with non-native speakers. I bring it up because an unintended verb tense error can really alter the perceived meaning of a sentence. Here are some examples from your post above:

            “I working a something along the same lines as your comment started out …”

            “The first two clues work in combination as to know why and where.”

            “It will be know at that time to be the correct point.”

            In these particular cases, the reader can easily interpret your intended meaning, but there have been other times where I have had trouble deciding on your intended message.

            Since you are a frequent poster, and I read almost everything you post (often with great interest!), I wanted to politely bring up this point. I mean no disrespect whatsoever — heaven knows that while I can read French fairly well, I am sure I utterly butcher the language when I write or speak it.

          • Zap,
            I gave up a long time ago fighting spellcheck, Auto talk, idiot phones, and this dang lap top keyboard. I spend more time with the backspace button then I do with my wife. In all honesty, I know I’m not the best two finger typist as well. I hardly ever proof read nor do I really care.
            If you get the premise of my post, you’re doing good. If not…
            My main language is American, because my English suck. I’ll blame that on being lazy and the American school system.

            On another note; What did you think of the theory?

          • Hi Seeker:

            > On another note; What did you think of
            > the theory?

            It reminds me of a golf joke: Golfer: “So, caddy, how do you like my game?” Caddy: “Very good, sir. But personally I prefer golf.”

            Joking aside, I agree with a number of elements of your theory. I think the first two clues do get you quite close — just not extraordinarily close. I think it will be a matter of miles and not meters.

            I think perhaps the biggest misstep that searchers make is assuming that all of Forrest’s clues will be of the same type, e.g. WWWH is #1, canyon down #2, HoB #3, etc. That’s a pretty boring architectural plan. If Forrest felt like an architect constructing that poem, I would be looking for some variety and hidden complexity. As an example, people have offered up nearly every word in the poem as Forrest’s so called “word that is key”. But he never said the word was one of the 166 words in the poem as you would normally read it.

          • Zap,
            I don’t want to get to far off topic…yet the word that is key could be a clue as well… other than rainbow, why wouldn’t the word be in the poem?

            Fenn keeps repeating to go back to the poem, the information is in the poem, any would it be in the book?

            Tight focus… look? I ? Found as in see or seek?

            Many believe fenn is giving clues out like candy on Halloween…. maybe tight focus truly means something…

          • Seeker,

            > I don’t want to get to far off topic…yet
            > the word that is key could be a clue as
            > well… other than rainbow, why
            > wouldn’t the word be in the poem?

            Oh, I think it’s in the poem alright. It’s just not necessarily one of the poem’s 166 words.

          • Seeker, I think I see where you are going, (or not going), with this. Putting everything aside and just looking at that theory, it does seem plausible. It would fit a lot of his comments. Especially not knowing they had the first clue, and walking right by, but it’s a tough sell.

            Do you think all 9 clues are fairly close or just the 1st,2nd, and 9th? Is the blaze close or on top of the chest?Or further away? I guess on top could be ruled out because of his comment, don’t start in the middle.( I forget the actual quote, but you get it).

            I can’t fullhearted disagree with this theory because at first glance it’s possible, I just have a problem with distances and trails, etc… but the what ifs are possible. I just think f wanted to have the searcher experience nature more than having the searcher start and end in the same spot or area. I guess that’s where we as searchers need to keep at the back of our minds and not the forefront so much. Trying to think of what f is thinking has not worked out yet.

            So yes, we agree and disagree, but not on the possibility of a new way to look at the whole.

            As far as the blaze, I’m working on something, will post soon. Has to do with 85%,15%, longhorn cattle, Texas a & m, mind at 13 years old, and Bevo. Thinking the blaze has something to do with a longhorn. In the early stage though.

          • Charlie,
            Does the poem not take folks all over the Rockies, all over the four states and prior to knowing those, almost all of the states in the mid west?
            The ” …f wanted to have the searcher experience nature more…”
            Like fenn said the poem has done it’s job.

            The question again is are we reading the poem the way we want to see it, and missing the intended reading. You mentioned: “I just have a problem with distances and trails…” Well, that is exactly what I mean by what we think the poem is saying… do we really need o do all this traveling? Or do we make it out [read the poem] that we have to?

            There is traveling involved, but in this theory not the stomping from point to point, but the “several miles” round trip [ possibly twice] to your solve. which seems to fall in line with “certain beforehand” comment.

            The word follow doesn’t always mean; Tag along, directional… it could be more like follow the instructions, know what you need to know, having all the ingredients right in front of you.

            A couple comments that fenn said [paraphrasing] about; looking so far ahead I forgot to look behind me, and another, about; climbing a hill just to see what was behind him or were he came from, seems to imply the same thinking in this theory.

            The thing about this idea, if you look at the after he facts along with the poem… I can’t find many comments that would disagree with the clues are visual at the starting point and work their way to you.

            As well as, there should be only one location that can do this… [ all the ingredients ] This still allows the poem to be straightforwards from that perspective. Just not from the perspective we ‘think’ or hope it is.

            While other searcher where at the first two clues, one should ask, what were they thinking?

            Just for fun – e-mail me if ya like or we can do it here – throw me any after the fact comments relating to the poem… not what we think is a clue, like a floating hat or a bird or pics in from SB’s… but ones that you might see tearing a whole in this idea. LOL rip me a new one!

          • Charlie ~ “Do you think all 9 clues are fairly close or just the 1st,2nd, and 9th? Is the blaze close or on top of the chest?Or further away?”

            This is a great question. And sorry I neglected to answer it in my last post.

            The answer is “tarry scan with marvel gaze” we need to see not only what the clues refer to but we don’t know the distance of them… and to the Point… we don’t need to… We should see it all unfold as we take the time to see it. It really may depend on where clues 1 n 2 are located. elevation may be a factor, but what seems to be correct here… if you don’t have the first clue nailed down… you won’t see what you need to see and you have to look at it from a mirror perspective… the clue are looking at you.

            If you have been wise and found the Blaze… in this theory is you are seeing the trail… not a human trail, but the trail fenn is describing. And why the Blaze is in the middle of the poem… stanza 5 and 6 are needed to ‘precisely locate’ the chest.

          • Seeker, give me a little time to soak it in and take a look. Kind of reminds me of that pic with him on the hillside, overlooking the valley. With his Daniel Boone hat on. Loco might have some quotes to offer. With this thought, could the Wyoming med wheel come into play? hmmm, I’ll get back to you.

        • Thanks for the clarification. I can’t say for sure if a structure is not involved with a clue… it all depends on how one looks at what a structure is.

          Example, is Rushmore a structure?

          Its design is man made and carved out of the mountain, but is it a structure?

          • Well for me a structure is something that has been created, not necessarily by man. Like say a beaver dam, it’s a structure in my eyes. Rushmore definitely qualifies as a structure.
            I like how you’re getting at the meat of the language use and I agree that it does depend on how one looks at what a structure is, especially in this clue.

          • Bryan… this might be not pickin but if a beaver drops a tree over a small gorge and humans and animals alike use it to cross over… is that a structure… if the chest in on the other side?

  71. Maybe this has been shared before. I’ve only been here a short time. But does “in there” have to be the same place as the treasure is?

    As an example: what if “as I have gone alone in there” refers to a museum? He enters with his treasures, but he sure as heck isn’t going to share where he found those treasures with anyone.

    He is able to keep his secret. “It” may refer to the secret. Take “it”. What? The secret, even though we don’t know what it is yet. We’ll eventually know, but not at this time in the search.

    We have to follow the clues to find the secret place. The first stanza may be recollection (by the writer) as he stands “alone in there” admiring treasures only he knows the location of where he has obtained them.

    I know this is basically obvious, but could help in determining how to follow the clues correctly.

    • Joe –

      You are not this first one to think of this theory………and even today it still works for some people….with a complete solve, botg and no treasure. Only the phantom knows for sure.

      In the beginning FF said he was going to place the TC and throw his body over it…….I have a hard time picturing him doing that in a museum.

      • I think you misunderstood my point. I am saying that the first stanza could refer to a museum—not that the treasure is placed in one.

  72. Velma knows a secret about stanza two. I’ve been waiting for someone to mention that.
    I did an experiment with three people. Each one gave me the same answer.

  73. I think there is a good chance that after all is said and done the successful searcher will be able to look backward from the direction they came and be able to see the spot WWWH and may realize that the TC is located where an ancient group utilized that vantage point to also watch the “watering hole” in all climates and seasons and even water levels which may be 100 or more feet higher than today due to the last ice age melt. That is why WATERS HIGH may be related to one use of the term BLAZE…High water leaves a blaze on the rock layers. IMO it may be necessary to understand the blaze and “looking back” in this context to reduce the complexitty of finding the correct TC spot out of several or many possible high water box canyons or overhangs.

  74. I’ve only been here a little over three weeks now. I’m pretty sure this was most likely shared before, when the chase first began.
    I don’t like to throw in negativity, but there is an important thing to consider. A lot of treasure searches have what is called a “red herring”, which is a false clue, or set of clues designed to purposefully throw you off track.

    Does this poem have a false set of clues intermingled with the REAL clues? What I’m trying to say is there could be a gate, but also be a bait if you catch my drift. Has this been discussed before? Just curious.

    • That is a really good point, Joe. Although I don’t think there are “false” clues as such, the genuine clues will throw you off the scent if you try to use them too soon – if that makes sense. For example, if you’ve found the blaze, “But tarry scant with marvel gaze” fits that area well and makes you think you’ve reached the end (which is not the case), IMO.

      • Voxpopx,

        Exactly, I think the same can be said for the entire poem. Fenn gave his comment;
        “I mean, there’s people driving down the street looking for a blaze, because that’s one of the clues, but you can’t start in the middle of the poem and find the treasure, I don’t think, I mean, it would be a miracle if someone did.”

        Some would like to dismiss the possibility that the blaze might be a clue in the middle of the poem.
        I’ll add, many think the poem is to be all traveled point to point only. Fenn made a comment during the search efforts for Randy… [Paraphrasing] an 80 year old [fenn] is not going up and down that canyon twice with a heavy backpack.
        So is it only our perspective, we have to travel into a canyon, because we over simplify the attempt to decipher the clues… or as many call FF ~ a wordsmith ~ just using words and words usages that allows us to be fooled by our own imagination or lack of? and still be straightforward and honest.

        When people fail at understanding or accomplishment, many seem to want to find an excuse for their wrong…”red herrings” instead of realizing they could have just read it wrong, as to the author’s actual intent.

      • Not in the poem Jeremy, in the blogsasphere there are thousands. Fact and fiction, just when you may think you have the perfect solve, think again. The complications, like life, are endless. A quagmire of conflicting thoughts, 360 degrees out in all directions then back in, double omegas like conflicting gyroscopes, when you get confused you seek a trusting ear and end up with spinning gears, word definitions mixed up with different languages, songs, anagrams, holograms, and sonograms, French, Indian, Spanish, take it to the stars, etc. the only thing I have figured out is a good map, or is it figured in to a good map. I don’t know, let me bust out the chains and shrink the string, a marriage of two brings on a whole new meaning like a three ring circus or gypsies doing the two step. In the clouds are the colors or in the colors are the clouds, anyway or any way you look at it-there’s a different way to go. A Sunday kind of love, Peace:)

          • SL, I can’t pull that link up, bad service area. I’ll try later. Those words were just a venting of emotions. My thoughts aren’t quite that scattered. Usually I just write them down and press cancel, this rant though has a huge hint in it, so I decided to post it.

      • Jeremy–thank you so much for that link. I truly appreciate it very much. —sparrow

      • Vox, seeker— thanks a lot for the input. Thanks to Jeremy for an actual quote from Forrest saying there are no red herrings in the poem. I can get back to my investigation. 🙂

      • Jeremy— just one curious thing though. His reply to Mr. Hall appearsbto have intentionally left out punctuation. Or is “No sir Mr.Hall” a proper sentence? Just curious.

      • Jeremy— I was on another thread (“I think the chest is here”) discussing the poem. I had accepted the statement that there were no red herrings in the poem based on Mr. Fenn’s response “No sir Mr. Hall”. But I did some checking and the correct punctuation should be “No, sir, Mr. Hall”.

        So, I truly believe that Forrest may be stating in a round about way that the punctuation itself may be a red herring.

        Just thought I’d share that.

        • What I mean to say is that the punctuation in the poem itself. The commas, semi-colons and periods may be there to help throw someone off.

          He may be showing this to us by purposefully leaving commas out of his reply “No sir Mr. Hall”.

          I find that to be very interesting.

  75. I have a solution in Colorado if anyone there wants to check it out. This is an opinionated guess though.

    1. Begin WWWH. Where RED waters FREEZE. Colorado is “color red”, red is a “warm” color by definition. Ice Lake Co.,-107.808137,16.87z/data=!5m1!1e4
    2,3. Tank it in the canyon down, not too far, but tftw.. put in below the home of Brown. follow the canyon down into just below Silverton CO.
    4. From there it’s no place for the meek. Meek means spirtless, and the animas river means spiritual river.
    5,6. “The end is drawing nigh; There’ll be no paddle up your creek, just heavy loads and water high.” This details the point at which you get off Animas. “The End” “up $h!t creek without a paddle” refer to death. Deadwood Gulch. The semicolon connects the paddle and heavy loads comment to the end of the quest. There are couple ponds up the small creek in the gulch and a power line that crosses it (heavy loads and water high)
    7. If you’ve been wise and found the blaze… You have to be there at night (wise like the owl). You’re looking for a light beacon of some sort that will go off between midnight and 1 am.(my guess about 20 ft up in a tree) It will help if you look for it under a new moon (darkest night sky available)
    8. Your effort will be worth the cold (of night) — the cold effort of waiting until you see the beacon.
    9. brave and in the wood. brave at night (like his story of going into the graveyard at night), and of course DeadWOOD gulch. It might be linked near the power line (for the beacon’s power source).

    And above all….it just happens to be off the side of the Million Dollar Highway 🙂

    The thing that troubles me about this solution, is I don’t have the confidence to go try to find it there, and Forrest said the finder would.

    • Thanks Iron Will.
      IMO, you might be stretching a clue or two…
      But a fine example of a solve.

    • @Iron Will. This is my backyard, and I am very familiar with the area. Ice Lakes are perhaps the most beautiful lakes in Colorado. We jokingly refer to them as “Windex Lakes” because of their stunningly beautiful blue color (due to aluminum in the water, apparently). At first I thought you meant Deadwood Gulch in the LaPlata Range, then the Deadwood Gulch by Rico. There are a lot of Deadwood Gulches, almost too many. Who would have known…Although you have a fun solve, I don’t believe the treasure is here. A woman named Pam Shetron searched the Silverton area exhaustively several years ago, convinced the treasure was buried/hidden at Shrine of the Mines. Anyone who has ever been to Silverton (pop 700 or so) is familiar with the Shrine because it dominates the hillside above the tiny mountain town. FF said that he had not heard of the Shrine prior to reading about it on Pam’s blog. I suspect that if he had been to the Silverton area, he would have known about the Shrine. Just my thoughts…but you remind me that it’s time to take a fall color tour.

  76. All,
    Since we (self and kids) have been researching or searching for 3.5 years now, it seems like a good time to summarize our search efforts.
    We have, IMO, identified good candidates for over half of the clues (including the first clue, which, IMO, is REALLY important), and also good candidates for the “word that is key”, the “important possibility related to” the solution, the double omegas, and the knowledge of “geography” that is helpful; and we have identified over a dozen “subtle” hints from TTOTC, plus other hints from other sources.
    We are still working on, among other things, identifying the “creek” (and several other clues), identifying the “rainbow” (if in fact it has a second meaning), and understanding how to follow the clues “precisely.” (And, of course, we won’t know if our “first” clue is correct, unless and until we find TC.)
    Do any other searchers have a feeling for how far along they might be?
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

    • Geoff, I have a feeling for how far along I might be. I believe
      that I have an accurate, valid solve. I have been on two search
      trips based on this, and haven’t yet seen the TC. But I expect
      to see it on my next search trip. And I think I’ve already had
      that “DUH!” experience. Forrest did a BRILLIANT job with this
      poem. I’m not ready to share why I say that. But if I am the
      successful searcher who retrieves the TC, I’ll be happy to
      anonymously share the info, one way or another. Please
      understand my wish to stay anonymous if I’m the successful

      By the way, Geoff, I think it’s a great idea for you to bring a
      flashlight with you. That’s another point I’m not quite ready
      to explain just yet. Please believe me, though.

      The above is just my opinion. Good luck to you.

  77. As I’ve mentioned a couple of times now, I have only been around a month or so. But I have to say, one thing that has kind of amazed me is people who say they’ve been out 12 times searching for the treasure.

    This doesn’t seem to make sense. For example if a friend of mine invites me to visit him in Burbank, California, and gives me the address, I don’t grab a map of California and say “I think I’ll go have a look around”.

    I believe I would most likely find a map of Burbank Ca. ( if I don’t have a GPS) and find the street address.

    What I’m trying to say is that the poem most definitely contains directions to the Treasure. Shouldn’t I wait until I have narrowed down the area in definite manner before I take off on my search?

    Burbank most likely hasn’t moved, so if I’m visiting there it makes more sense to have an idea where it is than driving to California and ” looking around for Burbank”. If all I have is “how now brown cow” I’m going to wait until I have a bit more information about the cow before I go looking for it. Do you catch my drift?

    • Joe-
      As someone who has been out looking close to 70 times let me defend my habit of searching in the wrong place.
      First of all…if the poem tells us precisely where to go…no one has figured out where that precise spot is …except you perhaps…
      Depending on how one interprets the place to “begin”, the poem can take you to thousands of places in the Rocky Mountains..maybe more…once you have the right place to “begin” there may not be a guarantee that you will follow the next several clues correctly either…
      That is the conundrum of the poem…
      That is why it is a puzzle…
      That is why folks quit trying..
      That is why many who are not enjoying the search are frustrated…

      In my opinion Forrest knew that the poem would be confusing and challenging and require not only thought but also trial and error.
      Forrest is in it for the long run and so am I.
      I figure with nearly 70 searches under my belt I only have aprox 4,766 places left to look.
      I am narrowing it down… 🙂

      • Dal, your math is confusing. As far as your reference to being frustrated. When I go fly fishing and get frustrated tying a number 28 on my 6x, that doesn’t mean that the trip wasn’t enjoyable. Just my opinion.:)

        • I agree Straw. I am by now, not only prepared to be frustrated but also look forward to the two or three days of events that will eventually lead to my frustration…
          ie traipsing around in places I’ve never seen before…Smelling the sage and finding some new thing that if I squint hard enough and twist my head in just the right direction could possibly be a blaze…I have absolutely never tried to tie a #28 on a 6x but that might be because my bamboo pole and bobber have no tippet…
          I do everything wrong…

        • Is there really a fly as small as a #28? I’m so blind that anything smaller than a 16 or 18 is a real struggle to put on. And 6X tippet is almost invisible to me. Does this all mean I have no chance of finding the chest?

    • Joe-
      If you’ve found an address then more power to you..
      Many have thought they found the precise location detailed in the poem..
      Be it lat/lon or some other form of address..
      But according to Forrest the treasure is still out there so perhaps no one has found the “invisible address” yet…or more likely…no such address exists in the poem…
      Like Forrest says..
      Start at the beginning…the clues are in consecutive order…there are no codes…

      • excellent succinct summary Dal, thanks:
        “Start at the beginning…the clues are in consecutive order…there are no codes…”

        and I might add, Forrest has suggested that it will be a “DOH!” moment upon the solution becoming known

    • Joe, we all don’t think the same, the first time I went on a search was the day after I read the poem. I jumped into my truck and drove to a spot that made sense to me at the time. I still remember the ground I covered and things I saw. For me the best part was seeing new sights and learning new things. We all start somewhere, some of us with boots on the ground. I understand the importance of researching, it’s just that I would rather do mine with birds chirping in the morning. Then again I once hitch hiked to Alaska with less than $10. And decided to go to Australia on a whim for 6 months with just the clothes on my back. Both of those adventures turned out to be great decisions. And in hindsight every place I’ve searched for the Fenn has been a memory I’ll always cherish. Happy hunting:)

    • Joe, I’m with you on this. I didn’t hit the road on a search trip
      until I was FULL OF CONFIDENCE in my solve. I can’t afford
      to make more than perhaps 3 search trips in a year, and even
      3 stretches my budget quite uncomfortably. But this chase
      is pretty important to me.

      I spent approximately a hundred hours of head-scratching
      working on my solve. It started quite slowly. I was considering
      all kinds of possibilities regarding WWWH, including the sky
      (re: clouds), places where people cry (such as cemetaries),
      and river names (in Spanish and English), as well as places where a sentry would order a visitor to halt. I think I covered
      a good range of possibilities in this. And I also think that my definition of “halt” is the correct one, and that many folks
      have it way wrong.

      I have believed from the start of my solve attempt that if a tentative location indicated by a clue is viable, it has to
      support a tentative location indicated by the next clue, as
      well as the previous clue. I’m not the type of person to just
      go the street looking for the blaze.

      These days, I am not trying to solve anything in the poem.
      I reading the blog to stay informed about other folks, so I
      can be (kinda) informed about their thoughts on this
      chase. And yes, I’m fully aware that most searchers
      (many, many thousands) don’t post on this blog. This is
      why I am a bit concerned that the TC may be found this summer. I can’t afford to go on another search trip until
      the spring of 2017, so I’ll keep my fingers crossed, hoping
      that nobody beats me to the correct hidey spot.

      Please think about why FF specifically said “sandwich” and “flashlight” in his comments. I think these word choices are
      hints, although I’m not willing to explain why I believe this . . .
      until after my next search trip has ended.

      The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

      Good luck to all searchers. Please be safe.

  78. dal— no, haven’t found the address yet. No, I was just curious about the searchers. Didn’t mean to put anyone down. I guess what I was trying to say is that I would have to have some kind of concrete proof in place before I would start physically searching. I don’t have that proof yet so here I am in California. ☺

    But as strawshadow just mentioned, we don’t all think the same way.

    I have truly had a lot of fun with the poem and I haven’t gone searching yet. So when I do I’m sure it will be a wonderful adventure.

    By the way, totally off subject here, but do you think Lee Harvey Oswald worked alone? Or was there a conspiracy? I just happened to be thinking of that just now. Always cwantedbto gonto Dallas, but didn’t have enough concrete evidence to do that either.

    Sorry about that—way off the subject there. 70 times. That is amazing dal—- you must have had some really great times! Wish I had the bucks to do that!

    • Joe,
      Your post down plays so much, I don’t even know where to begin.

      If I said;
      The spur in my heel is the avenue I must place, I must extend my extension for a lane I need gets to my street.

      What am I telling you? Allow me to save time with this Poor example; but you’ll see in a second what that is.

      Lincoln spur, to Franklin Drive, to Washington avenue, to Park place, to Adams extension, to Jefferson lane to Seeker street.
      With a few readings and figuring out of the words you see are directions. You now have exact locations of where to go and how to go… maybe the only way to get there as well.
      Easy, right? …
      So What?
      This can be in any village, town, city, county in any state. With out the starting point… knowing anything is actually no help.

      You said; “What I’m trying to say is that the poem most definitely contains directions to the Treasure. Shouldn’t I wait until I have narrowed down the area in definite manner before I take off on my search?”

      OK. Now, if you “have” the starting point and only these words to guide you ~ The spur in my heel is the avenue I must place, I must extend my extension for a lane I need gets to my street.~ to guide you.
      How can you know beforehand what it is you’re narrowing down without being there, to see the names of the streets?

      Again, a fast and poor example… yet, even knowing beforehand what you think you need to know, there are still things you don’t know.
      One is, from what perspective are you seeing the names from? Your starting point may not be Lincoln Spur, even though the direction seem to say that. Your knowing where to start might be Seekers lane… but you will not know for sure until you see the clues / streets that lead you to where you are.

      The poem was meant to be difficult. If it was easy, you wouldn’t have a blog to be posting on, telling us, how amazed you are we don’t see how easy it is.
      ok, back to the drawing board for me…

      Just food for thought.

  79. dal—- sorry about that—studying the poem and reading the book “Crossfire” at the same time confuses two subjects. 🙂

    I do see where you are coming from, and if you have the resources must be really fun. In other words, a bunch of money can accomplish what most of us only dream of.

    • Joe?
      You are confusing me with Forrest. I drive a 17 year old van by the name of Esmerelda with 380 thousand miles plus under her belt. I own three pairs of pants and two pairs of shoes. I am spending this weekend tearing up my kitchen floor and thinking about how I wish I had the money to pay someone else to do this. When I go out looking I spend about $38/day on average for a week trip. Most of that is gas. In that week I might look at two or three different places. The rest of the time I take pics of wildflowers, hunt for arrowheads and sit in a meadow and watch anything that happens. Sometimes I toss a bobber into a lake…sometimes I take a hike down an irresistible trail…sometimes I fall asleep next to a trout stream and wake up with a new idea about where to find the blaze. I spend the night in the van. I shower at a campground or take a swim in a warm river. I stop at farm stands for fresh produce and mom and pop burger stands and cafe’s where I specialize in homemade apple pie. For entertainment at night I read a good mystery by flashlight.
      I travel cheap Joe…
      and I have a great time doing it..
      I look forward to it…

      • Thanks dal. Appreciate your post very much. You sound like someone having a great time. Good for you

      • You sound like my kinda guy, Dale. Life should be lived simple…no need for all the store bought hoopla in my’s too expensive and it will not make me any more happier than I am without it. My car is almost 17 years old and I only have only 108,000 miles on it..I love staying at home because it doesn’t cost me anything. I live alone and my yard keeps me plenty busy. Oh, and so does this poem…

  80. No—I never said it was “easy” to solve the poem at all. I can already see it is quite difficult to do so—it’s been 6 years and no one has solved it.

    What I said that I was amazed about was the use of funds and time for 12 searches, when there was no real confirmation of the “spot”.

    For example, when I first read the poem, and having been to Yellowstone, I knew immediately that the “Firehole” river meets up with the Madison. Could this be WWWH? Now, maybe it is, who knows?

    But am I going to drop everything and run to that area to “check it out”? To me that just isn’t logical. I need something that confirms that to me. That’s all I’m saying—I don’t know where the treasure is– but before I drive to the Rockies I want to have at least a fairly certain idea of where I’m headed. Don’t mean to offend anyone.

    By the way, why would Jack Ruby shoot Lee Harvey? It doesn’t make sense. Was Lee about to talk? Did Lee shoot a cop that was supposed to have driven him out of town and executed him? I guess we’ll never know.

    Oops, sorry about that. “Crossfire” is really interesting so I keep confusing the two subjects.

    Seriously though, don’t take offense. I don’t think finding the treasure is easy business at all. It’s going to take a detective’s mind (in my opinion) to solve the dang thing. 🙂

    • You are soo right, Joe Sparrow. I have my solve figured out from top to bottom….A to Z…all nine clues…all 6 stanzas, and I am ready to boogie! I can’t imagine someone just having a hunch as Fenn said, and spending oodles of money just on one hunch.. That is just plain insane as far as anyone’s pocketbook goes. Of course, all IMHO.

    • Joe ~ “What I said that I was amazed about was the use of funds and time for 12 searches, when there was no real confirmation of the “spot”.”
      Many folks have been wise with their cost, while other have gone off the deep end. The obsessive searcher will sell their blood, snitch from grand ma, mortgage homes, sell and re-buy near their search area. While most of them whine that it has to be fenn’s fault… why isn’t he telling us more, helping more, allowing us to risk our lives and beg for more bone… Others want to blame fenn for sending them in to dangerous areas, but ignore warning from fenn it’s as relatively safe as can be. Don’t go where a 80 year old can’t go…

      Those folks don’t want to take responsibility for their own stupidity, But set blame another to boost their warped egos, that their brilliant, one of a kind, perfect solve is it.

      As Bill Engvall says; “here’s your sign”

  81. It’s not very important to me how many clues are in the poem. I just
    carefully worked on it, being careful to pay attention to each and
    every word in the poem, and looking up the definition of many words
    (like “it”) that I thought were quite ordinary and familiar to me. FF,
    in my opinion, was very clever. No wonder it took 15 years to bring
    the poem to this finished/polished condition!

    I don’t think it much matters to FF how many clues are in the poem.

    I think people are too concerned about the quantity. I also think
    that people are over-thinking the poem. I think they should keep
    it simple, use some imagination, and show the poem to children
    between the ages of about 7 and about 14. I’m not quite ready
    to explain why I say this. But in the summer of 2017, I hope to
    be ready to explain.

    The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

    Good luck to all searchers. Please stay safe. This means to
    avoid stepping on cactus needles (my first mention of that!).

    • Andrew: “I don’t think it much matters to FF how many clues are in the poem.”
      Ya, sure, that’s why he has mentioned there are 9 clues in the poem hundreds of times, cause that don’t matter much.

  82. Serious Searchers Only (all others, do not read the following),

    Here is what the Geezer Team believes are the nine clues in the poem. To us a clue is a clue only if it moves the searcher closer to the treasure and is not redundant.

    The first line of the poem is an important clue because it tells us something about the hiding place. “As I have gone alone in there” seems to mean that Fenn has had his whole body plus treasure chest in the hiding place. This suggests a small natural cave or grotto, since he has ruled out man-made structures and mines. Geologically, small caves/grottos are called rock shelters and they are made by large boulders that have tumbled down upon each other and/or soil being eroded from underneath large boulders. Erosion suggests water trickling, seeping or running under and perhaps through the cave/grotto. Fenn said at one time that the chest is wet.

    The second clue is the first line of the second stanza. “Begin it where warm waters halt” We don’t believe any searcher would argue against this as being a clue. The third clue is “And take it in the canyon down,” Clues 2 and 3 tell us that warm waters halt at a canyon, then we go down the canyon in elevation. If there is water at the bottom of the canyon, the flow indicates the correct direction.
    The fourth clue is “Put in below the home of Brown.” This clue tells us when to stop going down the canyon. “Put in” suggests that the canyon is a navigatible waterway and that we’re in some kind of watercraft (canoe, kayak, raft). Some searchers believe “put in” means to launch. Well, if you’re already in a watercraft launched at WWWH it doesn’t make sense to launch again. Or perhaps there’s a road at the bottom of the canyon along one side of the river and the searcher drove to the spot defined as BTHOB, and then launches a watercraft to continue down the canyon. That there is a road could be supported by “Not far, but too far to walk.” being a clue. OK, but then how does one know how far to go down river? A searcher doesn’t, as far as we can tell!

    For our theoretical solution/solve we have taken the “land” vs “launch” scenario in which case “Not far, but too far to walk.” doesn’t mean much so we drop it as a clue. The fifth clue is “There’ll be no paddle up your creek,” which is a word play on the idom “Up sh*** creek without out a paddle” the meaning being it will be tough going. Many searchers believe “From there it’s no place for the meek,” is a clue but we don’t because “There’ll …” makes it redundant. Clue 5 also tells us that, since the creek is non-navigatible, we’ll be hiking in a dry or seasonal creek bed, a gulch perhaps, on public land. The sixth clue is the next line “Just heavy loads and water high.” Fenn said the treasure is not hidden in close proximity to a man-made trail. The sixth clue tells us when to leave the trail. Look for large boulders and some kind of water feature (i.e., seepage, creek, water fall) coming from higher up. The seventh clue is “Look quickly down your quest to cease”. This clue tells us to take an action as soon as we see the blaze. This is because the natural tendency is to move toward the blaze which will move a searcher out of position to see THE TREASURE!!! Clue 7 also tells us the treasure is not buried. Clues 8 and 9 are “Your effort will be worth the cold.” and “If you’ve been brave and in the wood” found in stanza 6. These 2 clues and the clue in stanza 1 tell us what to look for.

    Since the treasure is not buried and it’s not in plain sight, we believe it’s in a small cave formed by boulders that tumbled here long, long ago. We guess that there’s only one opening big enough for a searcher to crawl through and its at the top. The cave is dark, cramped, cold and damp – so be brave going in! There are a few small openings framing magnificent views of the Rockies. The boulders are in a small stand of juniper, cedar, and pinyon pine which shades the whole area. Sagebrush grows thickly here and there. Occasionally, the scent of sage and pinyon pine comes wafting through on a gentle breeze. There’s a trickle of water dripping ino a small puddle but during spring run off and the monsoon we are guessing it’s a small water fall. Ah yes, the sights, the sounds, and the smells! AND HOLY WHOLE IN A DONUT, BATMAN – THE TREASURE!!!!!!!!

    Of course, searchers need to know only three things; where warm waters halt, the home of Brown, and what the blaze is! Sounds simple enough, “HAR DE HAR HAR HAR!” to quote the famous comedian Jackie Gleason.

    We rest our case.

    The Geezer Team, Dennis Bockhaut, member

    • To The Geezer Team,

      You must have a poem purist in your group – who is miss leading you into a dark wet cave. Your not serious are you? We already know for a fact – it is not in a mine. Can you tell me the difference between a cave and a mine? A mine is probably safer as it has been shored up.

    • Dennis Bockhaut wrote: “we believe it’s [the chest is] in a small cave formed by boulders that tumbled here long, long ago. We guess that there’s only one opening big enough for a searcher to crawl through…”

      Dennis … as “inthechaseto” has pointed out, FF has ruled out the chest being in a cave; at least that’s my understanding.

      Also, I must take issue with your definitions. A “rock shelter” is not really a cave. A rock shelter requires no artificial light during the daytime as does a cave. And as one who has explored many wild caves in New Mexico, I can tell you that a cave, any cave even a small one, would be much too dangerous for a searcher to enter.

      Regarding the first paragraph, yes the chest “might” be in a rock shelter, an alcove, or a crevice … but cave? No.

      You might want to rethink some of your ideas.


      Ken (in Texas)

  83. I read the post, and I am a serious seeker. “As I have gone alone in there” does not have to refer to a cave. “Geez guys where were you? I had to go in there alone” (a kid referring to his trip to the zoo).

    “There’ll be no paddle up your Creek” could easily refer to a dry Creek, or that you both should use an oar (lol).

    I actually think your clues are too literal in nature, but all the best to you fellow searchers!

  84. Inthechaseto,

    In line 1 of your message “miss leading should be “misleading. In line 2 “Your” should be “You are” or “You’re”. If you want to know the difference between a cave and a mine – Use a dictionary, Luke, use a dictionary.

    Also, a person should know their own name (handle, id). If your name is supposed to mean “In the chase also” then it should be Inthechasetoo.

    Now put your glasses on and read paragraph 2 where we say “since he (Fenn) has ruled out man-made structures and mines”.


    Please provide the reference wherein Fenn states the treasure is not in a cave.

    The definition of “rock shelter” is not ours, it comes from a few light-weights like the, Merriam‑Webster, and Wikipedia.

    A shallow cave or cavelike area, as one formed by an overhanging cliff or standing rocks, occupied by Stone Age peoples, possibly for extended periods.

    Rock–shelter: a natural shelter between or under standing rocks in which the debris and campfires of prehistoric peoples are found.

    A rock shelter (also known as a rockhouse, crepuscular cave, or abri) is a shallow cave-like opening at the base of a bluff or cliff.

    I guess those stone age and prehistoric peoples laughed in the face of danger and scoffed at ancient cave regulations (dang those bureaucratic troglodytes)!

    Ken, You should rethink some of your ideas.

    Joe Sparrow,

    Joe, of course “As I have gone alone in there” doesn’t have to refer to a cave but that is our interpretation. We don’t get the kid and zoo statement.

    Remember, the purpose of the entries in this section is to give what we believe are the nine clues in the poem and why. Or to rebut a searcher and give a plausible reason for the rebuttal.

    The clues are Fenn’s not ours. Please give us or reference what your nine clues are and why.

    Your humble servants,
    The Geezers

    • Dennis; to put it into your own words, “Remember, the purpose of the entries in this section is to give what we believe are the nine clues in the poem and why. Or to rebut a searcher and give a plausible reason for the rebuttal.

      I fail to see how correcting someones grammar or spelling aids fellow searchers in finding out what the nine clues are. What did you gain by criticizing Inthechaseto’s handle?

      These are just the opinions of a fellow, “Old Geezer.” Comments like the ones mentioned above give us “Old Geezers” a bad reputation.


      • Goofy: are you able to get that link to play? I know I’ve listened to it before, but right now it’s doing nothing for me.

        • Zap, I just checked it; it’s working here. It’s a sound recording not a video if that makes any difference.

        • Probably some firewall issue for me at work. The audio player just shows 00:00 on both the left and right sides of the playbar. No matter, I’ve heard it before.

      • Goofy & All,



        An alcove is not the same as a cave. Caves are underground chambers, not found in Mesa Verde. Alcove formation is caused by water that seeps into cracks, freezing and thawing in them, eventually expanding and slowly pushing the rock apart. These portions fall off in blocks, creating the alcoves you now see. These blocks of sandstone were shaped and used by the Ancestral Puebloans in the construction of their homes.


        Alcoves are common where aquifer rocks sit on top of an aquitard or aquiclude. The groundwater (before any canyon cutting) is “ponded” on top of the shale, thus weakening the cement in the overlying sandstone, such that when it is finally exposed, it weathers away faster.

        That could also be your answer to “water high”


      • Hey Goofy
        Clear as day 24min 29secForrest Fenn said:” I have said it’s not in a cave or a mine. I don’t want people going into them and getting hurt.”

    • Dear Geezers—- I just used the zoo as an example. What I was trying to say is that “alone in there” does not really have to mean absolutely alone.

      “You guys said you’d be there and didn’t show up. I had to go into the Library alone”.

      The person doesn’t mean that they were absolutely alone in the library, They didn’t know anyone, but they most likely were not alone in the literal sense of the word.

      One could be driving solo and enter Yellowstone and say “As i have gone alone in there”—there may be a thousand people in Yellowstone—but he is using the phrase “alone”.

      That is why I say I think you may be taking all the words to “literally”. But all the best just the same.

  85. Hi Dennis — it will take me some time to dig up a link for you, but the statement about the treasure not being in a cave was made by Fenn during a radio interview this year.

    • Thank you zaphod –

      Forrest Fenn said NO CAVES, NO MINES

      Google earth is your friend and so am I.

  86. Researching ‘burial rituals’ of certain Native American tribes might help better define some of Forrest’s comments regarding the subject??

    Rocks survive all types of mother natures various….moods.


    • That’s a good idea.
      I’m thinking in terms of stone.
      Do you have anything more specific you can share?

  87. Excellent feedback! I listened to the broadcast referenced by Goofy and zaphod73491and Fenn does say the treasure is not in a cave or mine (darn, our cave senario was such a nice place, too). LitterateOne’s explanation of alcoves was also excellent. These examples show how this kind of website should work!

    Joe Sparrow, we understand your thinking and we will consider it.

    Spelling and grammer are important. Correct language provides clarity and minimizes misunderstandings. We all gain. I didn’t think i’d get slammed for spelling/grammer corrections. Gee, I guess I shouldn’t point out why “old geezer” is redundant or post our “mindless drivel” commentary.

    Dennis Bockhaut Geezer Team member

    • With all the minds you have working together, you still don’t have the facts right & need people from here to set you straight with there selfless input disregarding your arrogant comments from the past.
      The mind of the one out weighs the mindless of the many.

    • Hey Dennis B,

      I hate it but, someone has to say it . . .

      “senario” ?

      I’m thinkin it might be SCENARIO ?
      ( spelling and grammer? are important)

      yer killin us dude.


    • And , Dennis B. ,

      Simply because ” Correct language provides clarity and minimizes misunderstandings ” , you should now “put your glasses on” and read this :

      “non-navigatible” is not “correct language”

      The Proper spelling and grammar would read “non-NAVIGABLE”.

      “please give us or reference” is also not Proper grammar.

      And , just so there is clarity and no misunderstandings , Proper grammar would dictate that you use “e.g.” instead of “i.e.” when using “seepage, creek, waterfall” to describe “some kind of water feature”, since you offered those as examples.

      How does it feel to be bullied?

      We rest our case.

      • Uh oh,

        We already have Goofy and JD as the PC police now we have grammar police, I’m in real trouble that’s for sure. (Wink wink)


  88. Searchers,

    Thanks for all the corrections because spelling and grammar are important. We don’t think pointing out errors is bullying. Most of those mentioned we found ourselves when doing a reread after posting. Is there an easy way to edit a posted entry?

    Jake, our facts are straight. Which facts do you believe are not?

    Roll Tide, good catch on “senario” and “navigitable”. Regarding the later, why capitalize “NAVIGABLE” and why capiatalize “Proper”? What is grammatically incorrect with “please give us or reference”? The use of i.e. is correct when a list is exhaustive.

    Now down business. Twelve different individuals submitted a total of 28 posts relating to our nine-clues post dated 9/6/16. However, nobody stated what they believe are the nine clues and the reasons why or gave a reference if previously posted. One purpose of this website is the exchange of ideas, so let’s have them!

    Dennis Bockhaut, Geezer Team member

    • Fair is fair – One sentence = one clue. You can read the nine sentences as easy as I can retype them. Why nine sentences = nine clues? By using the nine sentences in the poem, I use all of the poem, not just parts. To me this is logical.

      What are your nine clues, and why have you guys chosen them? JDA

      • I scrolled back up, and found your nine clues. You seem to skip all of stanza #5.

        I disagree with almost all of your assertions about the other clues, and I certainly disagree with the way you have chosen your nine. I am not one to trash some ones solve, so all I can do is wish you guys well. – I hope that you find all that you seek, and TRY to STAY SAFE. JDA

        • Dennis –

          Do you really want to know why you don’t have ANY clues right?

          1. Because you did not start in the right place and that’s a fact.

          2. You said “Since the treasure is not buried and it’s not in plain sight, we believe it’s in a small cave formed by boulders that tumbled here long, long ago.” Wrong again, Forrest never said it was buried and he never said it wasn’t. He never said it wasn’t in plain sight.

          If you and your team really want to find the treasure you should start over and I don’t say this to be mean in anyway.

          Seems to me you have a great deal of research to do.

          • Inthechaseto;

            I disagree. I think that Dennis DID start at the right place – line 1, stanza #1. – and you say, “and that’s a fact.” Can you please provide the “fact” of your assertion?

            Just because Line one of Stanza #2 says, “Begin it, where…” This is NOT necessarily a statement of FACT that wwwh is THE first clue.

            Begin “IT”, wwwh. “IT” can mean the search for the treasure. so –
            “Begin the search for the treasure, where warm waters halt…” (sic) is certainly a possible interpretation of this line.

            Just the thoughts of an old fool – JDA

    • D.B. ,

      If you can’t figure out why I used all caps in the word navigable , then I don’t know how to explain it to you in a nice way.

      I capitalized Proper because I wanted to. Fair enough? Here’s a hint . . . you say “correct language”. Most folks use the term “proper grammar”, not “correct language”.

      Your use of “i.e.” was indeed Incorrect for a couple of reasons.
      1) It was incorrect in the context in which you used it.
      2) Your ” list ” was in no way “exhaustive”, as it only contained three words. That’s irrelevant. It doesn’t matter if your list contained 100 words to choose from, it would still be incorrect.

      I do not recall you offering “inthechaseto” as much civility as I am attempting to afford to you. I am treading very lightly, so as to not get nuked by admin. Otherwise, I would say exactly what I think about your coming on here and trying to humiliate a total stranger on a public forum.

      None of us are here looking for a lesson in grammar or spelling. We are here looking for a hidden treasure.

      Don’t bother replying to this, as I will not respond.

      And now, so that I’m not castigated for being off-topic :

      There are nine clues. They are in the poem.

      • My best Grammar used to correct me for not using “correct language”all the time. She lived to be 80 years old. I miss her.

  89. My solution came first, then upon counting and finding I was at 9 to reach the location it only reaffirmed my solve. There were also several “hints” in addition to the actual clues. Now its time to put feet on the ground and head to my blaze!

  90. Dennis;

    You posted the following, “The first line of the poem is an important clue because it tells us something about the hiding place. “As I have gone alone in there” seems to mean that Fenn has had his whole body plus treasure chest in the hiding place. This suggests a small natural cave or grotto, since he has ruled out man-made structures and mines.

    I can agree that the first line is important, but just the first line is not the first clue. All of Stanza #1, to me, is the first clue.

    You then make a whole lot of assumptions. You say that “As I have gone alone in there” seems to mean that Fenn has had his whole body plus treasure chest in the hiding place. This suggests a small natural cave or grotto…” This, to me is making a MAJOR assumption, not backed up by ANY facts in the poem.

    “alone in there” could mean alone in a geographic area of any of the four states. It could mean in a national forest. It could mean alone in a grove of willows. It could mean alone in a riverbed or creek. As long as he was “alone” in this particular place…he was “alone in there”

    “In there” is NOT limiting in size, at least it is not to me. What else in the poem leads you to believe that it is a rather small confined place? You
    are throwing “stuff” at a wall, and hoping that it sticks.

    Stanza #1 IS important, because it is a clue, AND a warning. A warning that the searcher too should be alone when he goes “in there” – wherever “in there” is. The remaining three lines also have value, but I will not go into these lines at the moment.

    To me, you are placing ALL of your hopes on a single assertion, that very well could be wrong. There are clues, and I have posted my thoughts on these, in Stanza #6 that tell you where “in there” is at. Do a LOT of research, and you just might find what I am referring to….THEN you will have something to base your assertions on.

    We are not all illiterate fools on this blog. Many have spent years doing the research, and have SOUND reasons for their assertions. Assertions that should not be discarded so quickly.

    The wonder of this search is that we ALL are entitled to our opinions and theories. And we are all free to express those ideas.

    I learned a LONG time ago, that honey catches more flies than does vinegar.

    Just another “Old Geezer” – JDA

    • JD…f stated it was a “small destination”, this gives me thought to believe it IS a small grotto or natural “tub”.
      As far as “alone”, f said that he saw no one as he hid his treasure. I know the poem was constructed first, so that seems to reiterate, in f’s way, that he indeed, followed the steps of his poem.

      Now, to ramble on about MY thoughts…

      So many fall into the “float” theme, because of “put in below the hoB.”. But, f did say he “walked back to his car…” after hiding the treasure so parking below the hoB is his put in, and he parked his vehicle, or “put in”.

      F said “whats to stop me from throwing my bike in ‘water high’…” (Forrest gets mail), which indicates that deep water is a stopping point, below hoB. ‘Fly Water’ states “water high” is deep water close to chest deep, and “heavy loads” is the swift current in the river. The heavier the load, the heavier the fly, swift water creates bouancy. Some say it means ‘rocks’, but my fishing experience says otherwise.

      It wont be a piddling creek you hike beside, but a swift moving river, thus, “no paddle up your creek.”. After a hike, but not extensively long, you should find the blaze…IF you’ve been wise to get that far! (F said if you cant make two trips to your car in an afternoon, you’ve gone too far.)

      “Look quickly down…”, seems to mean very close to the blaze, possibly two feet. F’s two feet were toasting nicely infront of his blaze. In the Olde World language, “quickly” meant very close.

      I think I’ve said enough, all in my opinion.
      P.S. F never said “the key word” was IN the poem! I feel his key word is THINK. Sharp focused thinking is what is needed to solve the

      Play safe, YOLO!

      • Donna;

        You did not ask for input, but since part of what you posted was addressed to me – here goes – OK?

        You said, “JD…f stated it was a “small destination”, this gives me thought to believe it IS a small grotto or natural “tub”.
        As far as “alone”, f said that he saw no one as he hid his treasure. I know the poem was constructed first, so that seems to reiterate, in f’s way, that he indeed, followed the steps of his poem.”

        Here is the complete quote, “*Your destination is small, but its location is huge (Posted Feb. 19th, 2016). To me this could mean almost anything. If the location is huge – say a National Forest, then the destination could be something like a grove of pines, within that National Forest – couldn’t it? I think that you are reading too much into “small”, but that is just my opinion.

        Can you refresh my memory – When did Forrest say, ” he saw no one as he hid his treasure.” I do not recall ever reading this. I would appreciate it if you can tell me when and where he said this. Thanks.

        I agree. Forrest had been to his “special spot” on more than one occasion – probably. He knew “How to get there”. He created a poem that walked the searcher through a series of “landmarks” that he passed through.

        I once stated that if I were Forrest, I would start at where the treasure is hidden, backtrack, noting interesting or important places that I could describe in words, until I reached “A” starting point. I would add a stanza or two that expressed why it was important that I had hidden the treasure, and why it was important that a searcher find it. I would then take 15 years to “polish” the poem, until I was well pleased. Making the finding of the treasure difficult, but not impossible.

        But what do I know – with my only two active brain cells, and one of them misfires quite often.


        • JDA, the “alone” statement was said in an video interview. “There was no one else in the parkinglot…”
          And small…hum, i guess it is a matter of opinion.
          Love your comments and wit!

          • Donna;

            “There was no one else in the parkinglot…” I doubt that the treasure is hidden in a parking lot.

            He had to hike some distance – I believe Forrest said less than a few miles – to the place he secreted the treasure. He had to ensure that he was not followed etc. Just saying that he was not seen in the parking lot does not guarantee that he was “alone in there…” It is far to easy to “assume” things that are possibly not correct, and we all know what Assume means. JDA

  91. It is no coincidence that there are so many beautiful locations in which the poem neatly meshes. Do you really think he wrote the poem for only one location? Or did he write it with the intention of enticing people from all walks of life to go out and explore. The solution is a simple one, but its simply not the most readily ascertainable. How many HOB or WWWH.are there in the rocky mountains? The possibilities are endless in their interpretations and their locales…..perhaps neither are what they seem…..other than they seem to confirm almost any location on the map. The master of double entendre has certainly outdone himself. His wiley ways and understanding of human nature has positioned him to manipulate the mind of men seeking patterns in chaos….and women :).

    All I know is its 14 hrs from here and I better pack a sandwich

  92. JDA –

    You said something very interesting – about going “in” there alone. I’m wondering why you think one should be alone. Eeegads – I remember going to my spot alone the very first time I went there.. It was an experience I shall not forget and not something I wish to do again. I now think the idea was ill thought-out – especially without packing. I’m wondering if your thinking one should be “dropped off” at the spot.

    • I think he’s only saying that you dont want to be retrieving millions in unmarked gold and gems under the gaze of prying eyes….not as in traveling with a companion. No one should venture into the wilderness completely alone.

    • inthechaseto ,

      I never go “in there” without my little friend. There are crazy people in this world who will kill you for a lot less than what’s in that bronze box.
      Better to be safe than sorry.

  93. ITCT;

    Maybe I should have been a little clearer. I think that the searcher should be alone, or at least NOT observed! i always have at least one other person with me when I go “in there.”, but I most definitely make sure that I am not observed by anyone. Anything found on public lands – National Forest, BLM National Park etc – CAN be confiscated by the government.

    The searcher MIGHT win in a lawsuit, but it would take forever – “Just take the chest and go in peace.” – DO not talk with anyone, do NOT disclose what you have found, nor where you found it – Don’t be seen! – That is why I see the first line as a warning – not so much to be alone, as to not be observed.

    Hope that this helps. Being alone HELPS in not being observed…and two can keep a secret, if one is dead – haha.

    Please answer the “fact” question I posed earlier. Thanks – JDA

    • JDA,

      We are in agreement as to “go in peace”. Get out of there with it without being seen. And even after that, keep your mouth shut about where you found it.

      Imagine the headache of anyone trying to confiscate it , if you never tell where you found it .

      All one has to say, if anything at all, is that you found it somewhere in the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe.

      Who’s gonna try to confiscate it? Feds can’t claim ownership unless they have incontrovertible evidence that you found it on fed land.

      State, county, nor any local government body can claim it without same burden of proof.

      BLM, private-property owners . . . nobody.

      No court will allow a prosecution without proof of where it was found.

      How’s anyone gonna be able to prove where you found it , without themselves solving the clues in the poem?

      Even then, how are they going to prove that solve correct ? There’s hundreds, if not thousands of locations that poem can lead you to.

      How’s anyone gonna prove you found it here, or there, because they interpret wwwh to describe a particular location in their jurisdiction?

      Only two people can know that . . . the person who finds it , and f .

      That’s the beauty of this thing , f “tried to think of everything”.

      Nobody can take it from you as long as you keep your mouth shut.

        • Hi incolorado –

          That would be great if he said that – could you find where he said that for me. Thanks

          • inthechaseto , Sure i can find it. May take a while. It’s most likely in a video. Want anything else? Everyone will call me crazy but I am giving away everything I know. Start by asking what the word “it” is. Too much is assumed. Did he not say a keyword that only a few are in tight focus with? Isn’t that a small word requiring tight focus? He didn’t say it only occurs once.

          • incolorado –

            Sure thing., tell me what IT is…..let er rip.

            Thanks for hunting for the quote……I’ll be waiting – it’s real important to me.

    • JDA – I think the poem is pretty clear on where to start. It says begin. I don’t think it says start in a rock cave. I think people forget the poem – is straight forward – and since the TC, has not been found in the last 6 years, – are we now more prone to going off on wild tangents.. If you read what we were talking about back in 2011, 2012. I think we were really getting closer than we are now. Dal would disagree – as he is out eliminating places. Everything gets so convoluted and it seems every word has nine meanings….and every sentence has twenty. We now have to be dramatically, grammatically correct etc. IMO this hunt was written for everyone – including those who have not been to school at all.
      IMO all the info you need is directly in front of you with a computer, the book. and the poem. Research of history is needed IMO – and even if FF did not say it – I feel he wanted this to be a fabulous learning experience for all – which it has been. I don’t see many posting about research – related to their spot.

      There are a few here who have what it takes to be a good treasure hunter. You are one of them. As you know – once you hit the ground it’s a brand new ball game – which in turn takes a different kind of attitude.

      For those who so readily fly off the handle (not talking about you JD ) at someone offering advice, I would say an attitude of gratitude for the help is needed, irregardless of if you like or not. If someone disagrees so be it. But we can all do that in a nice way. Until I get really mad….. 🙂

      • We can agree to disagree on where to start. That is what is so wonderful about this chase, and the blog.

        Good luck, and I hope that you find all that you seek, and TRY to STAY SAFE – JDA

      • inthechaseto, You recently commented on another thread (something to the effect of} ff stating that he was not sure that the poem was working…until recently. Do you have a reference for that or was it perhaps some misunderstanding? Thanks!

        • LMN –

          You know I have looked for that and now cannot find it. I will look again. It could have been on a radio show and not sure I want to go back thru all of those. Just disregard it until I find it or if anyone here knows – please help us out here.

          It was so interesting to me at the time – because it kind of indicates that the poem is to be solved in a very particular way. In other words – if you did not use a certain method – you couldn’t find it. I think he used many methods – but each method in a particular order of things – and guess what – nine of them. If I had done — what I think he did – I wouldn’t know if it would work either. There is no way IMO, to count the clues in the actual poem.

          The things I am speaking about here, absolutely will not work if you don’t start in the right place and the methods are then applied to the end – because that is were you are heading. And then the end changes with what he tells you in the middle. So, indeed it forms a rainbow effect.

          To me look quickly down means – look at the paper work in front of you.

          Pretty amazing how he did this – if I’m right – but I could also be wrong.

          • i appreciate the reply! That is a very interesting comment and significant, yet if not confirmed – that is another story. Thanks!

          • inthechaseto, you mention that “it forms
            a rainbow effect”. I don’t understand
            what you mean by this. Would you care
            to explain, so that a ten-year-old child
            could understand . . . please?

            Andrew Jef

          • spallies –

            Thank you so much – I think that is it…

            Not quite like I remembered it …but it will do. As that remark was posted March 2015.. I think we can rule out the fact that at that time someone found it.

            Here are the questions and what he said……..

            Had you read about other treasure hunts and their different methods used to hide treasure before deciding to write a poem? Is there a reason you chose to write a poem? ~j

            Thanks Jenny. I have read only about treasures that were hidden by pirates, and I wish I could find one of those. I wrote the poem in my book because I needed an avenue where I could present clues and start searchers on the chase. I worked on it for a long time and am pleased that it did its job so well. f

            I printed this here so ya’ll can refer to it.

            First of all I do believe he read other available treasure hunts, as some of the things he does are similar. You easily could call modern day treasure writers – pirates. It’s odd he says he wrote the poem in the book – instead of saying – I placed the poem in the book. He needed an avenue to present the clues – and the hints are in the book – you make the clues. How would he know the poem, in the book, is working? E-mails.


            lucinda – I used to know someone named lucinda. Stick around, you will learn so much it will make your head spin. 🙂

  94. imo – I think he went in there alone for a reason – and that’s so only he alone would know where he hid it – that’s just what I think but what do I know

  95. My sense is one of sheer astonishment when Forrest Fenn’s true story is revealed.

    If getting ‘the last word’ is what transpires after the discovery from TTOTC, hang on to your seats; It’s likely going to be one H… of a ride.

    For a whole lot of folks. – A whole lot of folks.

    IMO ~

  96. After just reading Flywater, ‘gone alone in there’ has a deeper meaning to me than it did before. And ‘my treasures bold’… are not what gets carried in, but what gets carried out, if only in one’s heart. New is catch and release, and old is trading for potatoes. Stanza one is Flywater. Maybe I should put it on a farther shelf to keep some perspective.

  97. Im excited to say that approaching the poem in a new way has opened up an entirely new line of thinking and a new location. The clues all fit and Ive found a blaze. Ive narrowed down a location and in addition, the method in which it is hidden. Now it’s time for a road trip! Ive only pieced together 2 solves in 2 years of daily….yes daily research. Im not one to throw a dart blindfolded and hope for a blaze. I enjoy these forums more than you know. Many of the ideas put forth spark my thought process into different directions and I thank you profusely for that. This is a virtually unsearched area (vocally anyway). And i can see how searchers would have been close and never known it was there. Why do the best spots have to be so far away?

    I can tell you….being that I live on the map… final, official story and solve will be a lovely elaborate storyline that plants it squarely under a tree in my backyard

  98. everyone should start considering the land types and the possibilities, just my two cents. some of these just dont work. not in regards to keeping what you found (assuming you find it).

  99. Serious Searchers,

    There were 9 more posts relating to our nine-clues post dated 9/6/16 for a total of 37. Only one person in the 37 posts stated what they believe are the nine clues.

    It seems to us that facts from outside the poem are important for our approach in analyzing the nine clues. Our approach consist of assigning probabilities to various scenarios or options. As an example, look at lines 1 and 2 of stanza 4 “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, look quickly down, your quest to cease,”. These lines suggest that once you’ve found the blaze simply look down and you’ll see the treasure. Fenn has told us that the treasure is hidden (fact) and that he never said it was buried (fact) and he never said it wasn’t (fact). If it was buried, how could a searcher look quickly down and see it? So we give the buried scenario a low probability. But then is it in plain sight? No, Fenn said it was hidden (fact), so for that reason and some others we give the in-plain-sight scenario a low probability. Fenn said it wasn’t hidden in a mine (fact) or a cave (fact) or a structure (fact). Note that all of the facts are from outside the poem. Based on four other facts given by Fenn, we came up with the rock-shelter/standing-rock/alcove scenario which we gave a high probability. The word “cave” has been deliberately and benevolently omitted to prevent some searchers from having “nutty squirrels”. We won’t reveal the four other facts because, as we stated before in other posts, we can’t have all the fun!

    The Geezer Team, Dennis Bockhaut, member

    • Dennis;

      To me, you are again making several assumptions based on a “fact” that may not be correct. You state, “look quickly down, your quest to cease,”. These lines suggest that once you’ve found the blaze simply look down and you’ll see the treasure.”

      There are several definitions to the three words, “look quickly down.” One of these definitions tells the searcher “where” to look, not HOW to look. It took me about two months to uncover this unique definition.

      Finding this unique definition changed the game completely.

      If you find the blaze then look immediately at your feet, in my most humble opinion, you will probably be at least 20 to 50 away from the treasure site. From the FIRST time that you can identify the blaze as being the blaze, you could be 200′ to 500′ away from where it is secreted. To me, that is why people have been from 200′ and 500′ from the TC and not found it, and possibly then walked right past it.

      You then say, ” If it was buried, how could a searcher look quickly down and see it? ” – Again a possible wrong premise = a probable wrong conclusion. Just my opinion.

      If you accept the easiest definition of ANY word in the poem, as being the correct definition, I would bet that in at least sixty – seventy percent of the time you are using the WRONG definition.

      But what do I know? – I am just an “Old Geezer” like you guys, and none of us are holding the treasure. JDA

  100. I read something from Forrest but don’t remember wherevI saw it— but I think on Jenny’s site where Forrest says if he hears a sound in the forest he “quickly” looks in that box direction.

    So I have wondered if some sort of sound is associated with the blaze which causes you to “look quickly down”. Just a thought.

  101. Weather looks good. Time to shoot some photos tomorrow to try to identify the “creek” that may be a clue. Safe searching, everybody.
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

  102. By the way, based on photos from yesterday, I changed my opinion again; IMO, “heavy loads” and “water high” are two different clues. Time to get the kids involved again.
    Has anyone else changed their minds about clues based on recent searching?
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

    • I asked my wife what she thought “heavy loads and water high” meant. She immediately mentioned the laundromat. You don’t think Mr. Fenn might have hid the chest in a Maytag do you?

    • Heavy Loads, and water high are two different elements to me, but they are just two elements in a bigger clue.

      To me, clue #4 includes:
      “From there it’s no place for the meek, – A location
      The end is ever drawing nigh; – A location
      There’ll be no paddle up your creek, – A thing/location
      Just heavy loads and water high.” – A thing & a location

      To me, a clue does not have to be a single thing, or a single location. – one sentence = one clue.

      Good luck to all searchers, and TRY to STAY SAFE – JDA

    • I agree Geoff,
      I see “just heavy loads” and “water high” 2 different clues.
      Water high seems to be a waterfall.
      Maybe heavy loads is all the logs & boulders up the creek.

      • Jake,

        Since erosion could effect the treasure’s resting spot and as Forrest said he tried to think of everything is it possible that “water high” could relate to the lack of water as in the idiom “high and dry”? If we are in fact going up a creek most believe is “dry” because of the “no paddle” mention do you think this is plausible?

        Pacman had an interesting comment in “The Hidey Space” thread about erosion.


      • LOL… oops… sorry for laughing out loud Jake, but did you miss the logic in you comment? “Water high seems to be a waterfall. Maybe heavy loads is all the logs & boulders up the creek.”
        Moving water would dislodge most, if not all that debris from ‘up’ stream… carrying it away or at least, not in the same location. I hope that is not truly what HLAW means… imo… I hope we don’t have to “chase” moving clues.

        While fenn did say it would be harder to find the chest in a thousand years [3009] because the Rockies are still moving…. your scenario could have already removed what a clue might be. That would make it almost impossible to ever find the chest if moving water could hamper the search year by year… nevertheless a hundred or thousand years down the road.

  103. Geoff, In my solve heavy loads and water high are one place. I don’t have the chest yet but feel close. I have been to the general area 3 times so far. A friend has agreed to look in the area for me soon.

  104. Well, shiver me timbers if it be not Talk Like A Pirate Day. Find those 9 clues, me hearties! (And search safely, like good pirates do.)
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

  105. By the way, based on last week’s photos, IMO, I’ve been able to identify the “creek” (which, IMO, is one of the clues), and it is NOT the one I had in mind most recently. Time to go back to the map. Safe searching, everyone!
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

  106. I don’t count clues. But, if I did, I would probably give the following some consideration.

    Clue :


    With that in mind, I decided to go through the poem and count the instructions contained therein.

    1) Begin it where
    2) Take it in
    3) Put in below
    4) Look quickly down
    5) Tarry scant
    6) Take the chest
    7) Go in peace
    8) Hear me all
    9) Listen good

  107. ” So I wrote a poem containing nine clues that if FOLLOWED precisely . . .”

    Notice he said “followed” and not “interpreted” or “deciphered” etc.

    Now, how does one “follow” a clue?

    By knowing that a “clue” is an “instruction”.

    Is it simply a coincidence that a clue is an instruction and there are nine instructions in the poem?

      • into ,

        No, I’m not a gumshoe, I just enjoy a tough puzzle.

        Everyone who knows me gives me a new puzzle for Christmas every year.

        I must say, this is the toughest one I have ever taken on.

        Thanx for the comp.

      • I really want this found sooner than later so let me help you out here………….In the definition of followed you will find the word people. FF is first and foremost a people person.

    • You are right RT, and no coincidence that a clue is an instruction.

      Here is my take on the instructions:

      1 Start the chase here. BIWWWH
      2 Take the chase down the canyon. TIITCD
      3 Go down the canyon this distance. NFBTFTW
      4 Stop when you get to the creek below HOB. PIBTHOB
      5 Go up to the end of the dry creek. TBNPUYC
      6 Be wise and find the blaze. IYBWAFTB
      7 Look quickly down to end the chase. LQDYQTC
      8 When you find the TC leave quickly. BTSWMG
      9 Just take it and go and tell no one! JTTCAGIP

      There are no other instructions that I see in the poem other than So hear me all and listen good. Which I think he means follow my instructions good. The problem is you still have to interpret what the instruction pertain to, you still need to analyze what the clues are.


      1 Rio Grande at Red River.
      2 Go down the Rio Canyon.
      3 Go 12 miles.
      4 Stop after you see the creek below Mr. Brown’s house.
      5 Go up this particular creek until the end where HL&WH.
      6 If you’re wise you take the easy way to the blaze instead of up the creek.
      7 Look down…..etc., etc…..

      These instructions are clues because they all get you closer to the TC. Again, you must analyze and think how these instructions relate to places. IMO, the words he chose in the poem (which took him 15 years) define these places. You need to know all of the definitions of the words, like his example of “several”. This is also where you can use your imagination to twist the meaning of the words. This is the way you will find the starting place, IMO.


    • So I wrote a poem containing nine clues that if followed precisely . . .

      So I wrote a poem containing twenty-four lines that if followed precisely . . .

      So I wrote a poem containing six stanzas that if followed precisely . . .

      So I wrote a poem containing one-hundred-sixty-six words that if followed precisely . . .

      So I wrote a poem containing ??? verbs that if followed precisely . . .

      So I wrote a poem containing ??? nouns that if followed precisely . . .

      So I wrote a poem containing coffee stains that I’d spilled on it that if followed precisely . . .

      Anyone following me here?

      So I wrote a poem that if followed precisely . . .

      • ” It doesn’t matter what words I use as long as the reader understands what I mean . . . (f)


        • Iron Will ,

          Sometimes, punctuation, or the lack thereof, makes all the difference in the world as to how we understand what we are reading.

          Insert a comma after “poem” and another comma after “clues” and see if that makes a difference in how you perceive that statement.

          • It was actually a joke at your use of “precisely” dude 🙂 There are times when I could care less and just want to be funny, and times when I’m dead serious. Just ask Forrest… He’d probably tell you my emotions are all over the place 🙂

    • Iron Will ,

      That’s what I thought but I wasn’t sure.
      I do the same thing at times but, it seems to go unnoticed also.

      • Iron Will ,

        I would’ve thought that my comments about the nine clues would have at least stirred the hornets up a bit. After all, this is Part Sixty-Seven on this topic.

        And while I’m here, didn’t you post your recipe for those apple-butter pies somewhere? I love apple butter.
        Plus, I’ve been nominated to host Thanksgiving again this year. Thinking about trying my hand at making some of those.

        I’ll call ’em Iron Willies.

  108. Everyone should consider the “take it” and what it really means. Do not assume to much. “I always took the path to school”. Know what I mean? So yes, you can follow something.

  109. What if the clues are describing the ride on a swing. An activity a kid might find thrilling. I know, too simple but made me smile when I think of the fun I used to have on swings as a child. Sometimes it seemed like I flew so high I was going to go over the top. Yikes!!! IMO.

  110. I found the treasure!
    Sorry not the infamous indulgences fenn trove.
    behind and empty electrical box in a hole in the wall, on a remodel I’m rewiring that contained 20 silver dollars, 3 platinum bars, 10 collectable coins 5 krugerrand 1 oz coins total value approx $14,000.
    It was really exciting, something I’ve dreamed of for the last 22 yrs as an electrician. I gave it to the contractor he said the family of the previous home owners told him (before I found it) that there was something hidden there they were looking for.
    Too bad I couldn’t keep but it was fun.

  111. It seems to me that most of us are trying to decipher the poem without following it precisely. In the TOTC book Forrest tells us to follow the clues, but he does not say to decipher, or interpret, or crack etc. the clues for us to find the chest. Now, there are only 3 ways, in my opinion, to follow the clues precisely, and they are by making a copy( copy machine) of the poem, writing it exactly as it is written, and reading it exactly as it is written. Those are the only ways I know on how to follow the clues precisely, but yours my differ. Why is this I important? Well, there is no solve if the poem is not followed exactly. Yes, the poem as a whole.

    The first stanza is the beginning of the poem, and that’s our start. In the poem there are 8 periods, and one question mark which gives us 9 sentences. These 9 sentences are the six stanzas, and the whole poem. 9 sentences are the 9 clues. One cannot follow anything if she, or he does not know what to follow. So to follow the clues, or the poem exactly,or precisely is to read it ,and follow what it is saying. Not more, not less. To me this is clear-cut, but maybe not to you.

    So if this is true, why is it that nobody has solved the poem yet? Because nobody has solved any clues on purpose. The findings were accidentally. Whoever finds WWWH, not by accident but on purpose ,will have solved the poem. But to solve WWWH one must follow the poem precisely. One will know when they have solved this first tangible clue for all others follow precisely.

    But why is WWWH so important? This clue is the key for all the proceeding clues , and without it the following clue is worth nothing, just like a zero to the left of a number. One cannot solve it if one does not follow the poem precisely. Oh, yes I almost forgot. All of the previous is my opinion. RC.

    • RC,
      I have subscribed to this way of thinking since I started the chase almost a year ago. Although I’ve deviated from this path in ways most have, I continually come back to this first stanza. Who is I? Where is there? Who’s treasure? My Treasure. Keep it where? In there!
      Is “I” the piece of Fenn that slipped into the treasure chest when he last closed it? Is “there” the place he and his dad stashed their camping gear? (probably not because that info is not in the book or the poem) .
      Or maybe the first stanza is not the first clue or thing to figure out? He did say something like it was easy for him to create the clues, he simple had to put his foot down and put the other foot on top of it. Seems like that statement from from where he hid the treasure.
      Maybe the poem is written from that perspective?
      Anyways, thank you for the post. I always enjoy reading them.

  112. Hi All
    Stuck on what might be a clue. The first line, but not the whole sentence.  As I have gone alone in there. Do all the clues have to be places? Have been trying to use the meanings of the words with no luck, but if mirrored. How do we mirror a word? When I look in a mirror can I use the word we? The same but opposite. So we will go together out there. Does that mess with the poem? Or change the way to read the instructions? Sure makes the next clue fit in our theory. In our opinion. Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated. Thanks. 

  113. All,
    I agree with searchers who are trying to precisely follow the nine clues. IMO, based on the marks on our maps, “precisely” seems to be the difficult issue. It looks like another trek to shoot photos would be helpful.
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

  114. Back from my last search for 2016 – I think. About to cozy-in for the winter and contemplate the poem.

    Does anyone have any thoughts on the two lines – one sentence – “So why is it that I must go And leave my trove for all to seek?”

    The “…must go…” is the part I am perplexed about. Does it mean more than Forrest saying (when he had cancer) that he felt that he was about to die?

    My next question relates to the next two lines, “The answers I already know, I’ve done it tired, and now I am weak.” Is, “I’ve done it tired,…” a Texas
    Colloquialism? Does it mean, “I am tired and weak”? Why the comma after tired?

    I have seen no discussion on these four lines, and really would like some input from some of the old-timers, as well as some of the newer folks. The lines seem somewhat self explanatory…but are they? I suspect not.

    Thanks for your help folks. TRY to STAY SAFE out there folks. JDA

    • JDA, “So why…” I believe this is a precise instruction as to where you need to finish one part of your search. It’s how I found myself at the fen in my recent search. I’m seeing hints that it also contains specific information relating to both the start (“leave”) point and end (“go”) point, but I’ve more work to do on that.

      The “must go” may relate to the idea that a particular waypoint completes a part of the diagram or map that is described by the poem. That, in my search, was the place where I found the marbled stone.

      As for the sentence beginning “The answers…,” in my solution that refers to the mirror, and the fact that you need to answer the clues twice to get to the treasure. It may also provide another insight. Since I found myself in a reedy marsh, I wondered whether the phrase indicates that “already” can also be voiced as “all reedy.” I’m not certain.

      The “tired” and “weak” may also have multiple meanings. Tired can mean by car, which in turn can relate to 4 wheels. Weak may also have numerical value. But more importantly, I think, weak relates to the place near where you find yourself at this point in your adventure – you’re not quite finished (in every sense of the word).

      Hope this helps.

      • So the top two items in the chest may be the metal mirrors and may strongly relate to the specific time sensitive blaze which marks the precise location and the need for carrying a flashlight on your second trip to retrieve the second half of the trove from the TC in one “afternoon”. When the blaze is in the correct location look quickly down before the blaze changes. Don’t fear the dying of the light but prepare for it with certainty in the canyon down. Are there any new ideas here?

        • Carry a sandwich because your last probable meal was 8 hours ago even though it’s not too far from where you started the chase today.

    • JDA,

      The word so when used to lead a sentence is called a “discourse marker”, It’s used by a writer to refer to information that both writer and reader have prior knowledge of. IMO Forrest is rhetorically asking us to recall why he has to go and leave his collection for all to seek. We know from TTOTC and the many interviews, that he wants to pass on his thrill and love of searching and collection things before he passes, but then the says “The answers I already know,” What are the answers? Are they, “the thrill is more important than the quarry” or “we are all here for the benefit of others” I’m not fully sure if it is one of those, both or another altogether, maybe it’s better to ask “what are the questions?” He then ends that stanza with “I have done it tired and now I’m week” this is quite possibly the answer to his question of why he must go and leave his trove for all to seek, because he has had his thrill (I have done it), is old (tired) and prepared for death (now I’m weak).


      • Those are lovely sentiments that I’m sure many people share, including, perhaps , Forrest. But how do they help you find the chest?

      • Liter81,
        I would have to ask, if all the words in the poem were deliberate… be unwise to discount them etc. Why would stanza 5 would be rhetorical?
        We have been told to “start at the beginning” Many hope that simply means wwwh. But wwwh has been told to be a clue, right? and we are needing to decipher clues.

        We have been told to “know where to start”. That sounds the same as start at the beginning, however, if the “important possibility” fenn mentioned is the possible starting point? Could the answer to where we are to start be in stanza 5 and a little imagination brings the starting point to life… yet we still need to decipher the 9 clues at the location we were told to start, consecutively.
        IF fenn gives us the answer to where to start… technically… it an answer and not a clue. Where as clues may still be unknown until deciphered on site.

        • Seeker: I’m not 100% sure, but I think there is a pretty good chance that when Fenn wrote, “What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve”, he was referring to how the blaze is to be used.

        • Seeker,

          My seppuku is ever drawing nigh, and I feel It unwise of me to further my lessons so openly.

          It matters not what warm waters are only the where they are.

          “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem.”f


      • Thanks Liter 8 1

        I concur with much of what you say. Is there more? I am not sure yet.

        Thanks again for your post. JDA

    • To me, “So why is it that I must go And leave my trove for all to seek,” could be related to we as humans being “in the wood,” if in the wood refers to flaws or imperfections, like knots in the wood.

    • Hi JDA: your solve seems to be largely if not entirely based on coming up with the correct interpretation of the words, phrases, or sentences of Forrest’s poem, and you are obviously not alone in this approach. Perhaps over the winter you can consider other methods that Forrest may have used to conceal clues in the poem.

      • Zap,
        We have been told fenn looked up meanings of words, that the words look like simple words, but he worked on that poem etc etc. I feel I get what you’re saying because I have read many of your postings, and have looked at this poem from angles that my Chiropractor tells me not to. But a lot of things said, even over short period of time, gets shuffled into the vault and not always seen.

        I’ll add… there are gray areas in interpretation that need consideration as well.
        You stated; “F may have used to concealed clues in the poem”
        How about an example of how something is conceal [hypothetically if you want] and the poem still be honest to the words.
        One of my thoughts were the use of the capital letters… a common practice in poetry writings… but still a usable possibility for, as you say, conceal information. The hide in plain sight line of thinking.
        Another thought was word count of each line… Example stanza 5, is 8858 { each line ~ full stanza } maybe the exact elevation of the chest [ leave my trove ] ? is this a reason for stanza 1 ~ ” I have ” [ two words ] and in stanza 5 ~ ” I’ve ” [ one word ] to possibly keep correct numbers of words for some reason? Even when the same word[s] usage is used.

        Difficult to see but not impossible a possibility? It would help explain “precisely” … maybe.

        • Did you see my post on each and every line having a hidden sentence? Go to any line, keep letters, discard letters, ignore spaces and you will find a hidden series of words on each line pertinent to the poem.

          Also, has anyone considered nfbtftw is a location clue and not a direction clue?

          • Tim,
            If I recall, you used a grid to set the poem up, and like you just said, remove letters, and ignore the way the poem was written out.
            I could say, this system sounds like a Beale’s paper treasure hunt. IMO this would be a coding style information gathering. That for me is out of the gray area… but that is just me.

          • If Nfbtftw is a clue, which I believe it is, then that should refer to a place like FF said. (the clues didn’t exist but the place they refer did).
            So yes, not a indication of distance but of a place.

          • PS. Forgot to mention in my post about Not far… that line has to be used with two proceeding lines, not as a indication of distance… just wanted to clarify.

        • Time: I did see that, but I would caution that that alphabet soup approach has too many degrees of freedom, second only to anagramming whole lines. That is a rabbit hole that will take you far outside the “box”.

          Your NF, BTFTW comment is closer to the mark. If anyone had solved it and told Forrest that solution, he would be able to confidently report that 3 clues had been solved. Instead, he has said “may” have solved four clues, but that he is not certain.

      • Hi Seeker: as I’ve posted before, the poem is a bit “clunky” in spots because of how Forrest concealed clues. Fortunately, English is rich with synonyms and alternate ways of saying the same thing, affording some flexibility. But wherever you see unusual wordings (E.g. tarry scant) or seemingly unnecessary words (and, so), it could be an indicator of other things going on behind the scenes.

        People have opined that you can solve the first 2 clues from home, but the rest can only be solved with BOTG. I will counter that if my approach is correct, if you don’t figure out the blaze before you leave home, you have zero chance of finding the chest.

        • Zap,
          There is that ” certain beforehand ” comment. I’m still attempting to understand that… it could be one simply understand what is needed to be done when on site, Could be certain of the location to start but not certain of a clue or clues beforehand.
          I don’t hold after the fact comments as hinting or secret clues give. I use them for thought of those “WhatIF” this or that. But affording flexibility of chosen, deliberate words is skipping a possibility such as my example… imo. Think about treasures, chest, trove and their placement in the poem. IF they are just flexibility of using different words to mean the same thing, are we dismissing what they mean separately?
          Simple example;
          treasures can mean possessions.
          trove as no ownership.
          chest can go either way or mean something else altogether… maybe heart, with a little imagination.

          I have to ponder… is the poem ‘not’ using poetic usages [ a word or words phrases capable of meaning more than one usage at the same time.] Is a canyon only a big hole and water is only water? meek must be a scary place, and tarry scant should mean don’t linger to long, cold is a only temperature, If this was the case, why bother with a “poem” to begin with?

          However like you implied Could ” BUT tarry scant, may mean just the opposite? But stay a short time and gaze for a reason other than the marvelous chest?
          I mean, “‘So’ tarry scant with marvel gaze” would make more sense to not linger at the chest, leave now.
          “But” seems to be implying… But ~ “do this” ~ linger for a short time for a reason to see what might needs seeing.

        • Seeker: you seem stuck in a mode of interpreting the words and phrases of the poem, chasing down synonyms, obscure definitions, and so forth. If you want to figure out WWWH and in general progress with the poem, you need to break this pattern of analysis. It’s interesting and educational, but a dead-end for solving Fenn’s puzzle. You keep insisting that everyone is stuck in the same mode of poem-solving and everyone is failing, but this is not true. The people who have solved the first two clues either don’t post here, or if they do are wise enough to keep quiet about the starting point. I’ll give you a clue: figuring out the starting point has nothing to do with numbers or coordinates or anagrams or codes or ciphers or obscure definitions. It hinges on one word that is key, and it is not a poem word.

          • Zap, where in my weird thought process was mentioned number, or coordinates or anagrams or code or ciphers… in this comment?

            I truly can see why you, even Jake and a few others don’t follow / understand my ideas… I can talk about many approaches, methods, theories, etc. from one post to another. It really depends on the particular discussion going on and thoughts of seeing things. I don’t have a brilliant one of a kind solve, I don’t have a single thought process or brag that I do.

            And how do you know the folks who got the first to clue may not post here or if they did they keep quiet about it… LOL fenn has said by what he was told… they didn’t know squat either.
            Have you ever considered why some may have the first 4 clues but fenn is uncertain? one possibility is, those folks never e-mailed fenn and he may have only read those clues from a blogger on the site… so no, he wouldn’t know if they knew.

            I really having a fun time though… it really seems that some of my wild thoughts, crazy ideas, different theories, dissecting etc. irks the heck out of a few.
            My bad… I have never been politically correct. Or is it that because I simply can utilize fenn’s many comments and show possibilities or impossibilities, some just don’t like to see their perfect solved may not be as perfect as they want it to be, because my post raises doubt in their minds?

            Too funny… I’m “stuck.” Maybe a better way of chiming in is to show how a thought or theory I suggest can’t work… use example from the poem, the book, a map… or the only suggestion I can give is… if anything I say bugs you so much, don’t read the dang things.

            Oh Jonsey and Ken in GA… nice jobs.

          • Seeker LOL,
            How can someone understand you half the time when you say vague things like “first clue is not a place but an understanding”
            You don’t say what we are supposed to understand. Even if it’s a place, you still have to understand where the place is.
            Understanding is part of all the clues because you have to understand where they are. Get it?

            Whether they are in your mind as a thought or a physical place, you still have to understand.

            Many times you talk in circles & your circles are much larger than Forrest’s.
            Throw in a few typos & bad grammar & poof, I will not reply to try to get you to explain better.

            Fine, you can dumb me & others down all you want to make yourself look special & smarter than us but the bottom line is you don’t have the chest either.

            I understand where your coming from & think the box is far away from some of your thoughts. Here’s another example “we need to do something” or “there is something we need to do” Duh!
            Of course we need to do something otherwise we will be doing nothing.

            My brother Pat would ask me “You look like you thinking, are you OK?”

            My answer would be: If I wasn’t thinking, my brain would be dead, even when you think your not thinking, you are always thinking even when your sleeping.

            Just to stay on track.
            I think all the clues are at a physical location including the chest.

          • Seeker, you asked:

            “Zap, where in my weird thought process was mentioned number, or coordinates or anagrams or code or ciphers… in this comment?”

            You misread my post — you picked the very last part and assumed it applied specifically to you. It was meant to divert the inevitable follow-up posts from others who will poo-poo numbers, coordinates, anagrams, codes, ciphers, etc. I’m not saying that some of these might not come into play later, but they are not needed to find the starting point. It was a frickin’ hint, nothing more.

            “And how do you know the folks who got the first to clue may not post here or if they did they keep quiet about it…”

            Because *I* know the first two clues, as do probably a hundred others. There just isn’t any clear evidence that those who post here have figured out the starting point. Some may have, but as I said earlier if they have, they are being smart about not revealing it.

            “Have you ever considered why some may have the first 4 clues but fenn is uncertain? one possibility is, those folks never e-mailed fenn and he may have only read those clues from a blogger on the site… so no, he wouldn’t know if they knew.”

            Because there is nobody that posts here whose *posts* would lead Fenn to suppose they might have the first 4 clues correct.

            You need to do the math. How many people post here over the course of a year — a couple hundred maybe? Out of 100,000 that Fenn said are involved? With such a small sample out of the whole, it is only hubris that would make you think that the posters here are somehow better informed/smarter/further along than those who lurk or who never visit at all. The people here represent less than 1% of the searchers!

            “… some just don’t like to see their perfect solved may not be as perfect as they want it to be, because my post raises doubt in their minds?”

            Yes, people get defensive over their beautiful, imperfect solutions. But none of your posts, nor anyone else’s raises any doubt whatsoever in my solution so far since I am my own worst critic and I have already put it through a worse wringer than anything anyone else could dream up.

    • JDA … So Why? ‘South Wyoming’ is the most obvious, or maybe Why =Y (fork symbol). But IMO, together WHY & MUST affirm a deep internal purpose. One of character or religion… like paying off a mortgage debt or a debt of thanks to a waterfall. “Leave my trove” just means the TC, or the path to it, is under a canopy of trees, Maybe the trees were once sheared off like the canopy of his plane before he descended into them to hide. Recently, I’ve come to like Gros Ventre because of the French rank on that fallen stone. Face to face, nose to nose, belly to belly, etc.

      • Thanks for the reply OS2;

        I especially like your, “like paying off a mortgage debt or a debt of thanks to a waterfall. “Leave my trove” just means the TC, or the path to it, is under a canopy of trees.” Not sure how you got the “under a conopy of trees” – but I like it very much – can you expound a little?

        I also like your, ” Recently, I’ve come to like Gros Ventre because of the French rank on that fallen stone. Face to face, nose to nose, belly to belly, etc.”

        My search area is not near Gros Ventre, but I like the French connection. What exactly does Gros Ventre mean?

        Thanks again for the post. JDA

      • Or maybe something means both GO AND LEAVE…like EXIT?
        As in X it? As in mark (with an X) my words, map, trove for all to seek? His proverbial RE-retirement? Now he’s we weak, so passing on a couple bucks? In case of fire break glass and follow the exit signs?

        • I like it. The exit is also the entrance, bring us full circle. I just woke from a nap, so perhaps I’m not making any sense.

    • JDA,
      IMO the question, if distilled down to its most simple basic answer, could possibly be pointing us to very important clues in the the book that will help solve the rest of the poem (for the poem purists, the poem can still be solved without the book it just makes it easier if you figure out the clue and also serves as a powerful confirmation when your solve is complete).

      The tired and weak portion to me helps tie together what you are doing at the stanza above to the stanza below.

      To me that whole stanza is hints to how to finish solving the puzzle and also aids in what f is actually telling us with the poem.

      Of course I don’t have the chest so who knows? 🙂

      • WY girl,
        “The tired and weak portion to me helps tie together what you are doing at the stanza above to the stanza below.”… How to finish solving the puzzle.

        You don’t need to get into specifics, but are you say… there is work to be done to retrieve the chest… physical exertion other than just carrying it way?

        Just curious.

        • Seeker,
          i will just say that you are not done at look quickly down. IMO you need to understand what the whole poem is saying before you go BOTG.
          As f said not every word is necessary but it is not wise to discount any of them. To me this is why some were so close but did not find.

          • It’s my opinion that if you look quickly down your quest will cease. Unfortunately your your quest will not end the way you wish it would.
            A marveled gaze will serve your purpose better and your quest will continue.

        • Seeker;

          I know you are asking WY Girl the question, but I appreciate your asking. As I answered her, I feel that I do need to look for something more physical in these four lines. Is it a physical action, or is is something more physical after finding the blaze and Tarry Scant? I am not sure yet.

          I do NOT think that “look quickly down” means to look at your feet and simply pick up the TC. More must be found, and/or done. I just do not yet think that I fully understand what that is.

          Tire/tired can mean watery – Weak can mean collapse under pressure or droop.
          Done can mean to be the cause of. OS2 just mentioned that Trove (I think) could mean tree canopy.

          How can all of these new or different word meanings be combined to paint a physical picture beyond Blaze and Tarry Scant and In the cold, and in the wood? Not sure yet, but I sure appreciate all of the input – yes, even from you Seeker – Thanks. JDA

          • JDA I think that – done it tired and now im weak means that he is relieved (weak) that he did what he set out to do that’s what I think

      • WY Girl;

        I wholly agree that these lines are a “Connector” between the stanzas above and below. I have used it as Forrest telling us (searchers) why it was important that he hid the treasure, and why it is important for we, the searchers, to find it. The simple answer, The Thrill of The Chase.

        As Vox, OS2, Zap and Litter 8 1 have suggested, there MAY be a more physical interpretation, and it is this physical interpretation that I may have been missing.

        Thank you all – JDA

        • JDA,
          Two quick thoughts for you, first in regards to answering f’s question, there are several answers that are correct and important but deep down what is the simple basic answer?
          In retrospect maybe there is a bit more of a reason for the two different versions in the two different books. Maybe he did want to call attention to that single answer? Like I said earlier its not imperative to find the clues in the book it just makes it easier.

          Secondly, in my quest for a solve I found that I had to use different methods of thinking and solving will different parts of the poem. I got very stuck for a good long while until I realized this. Right brain and left brain thinking if you will.

          • I was an IBM Engineer at one point in my life, and a stone sculptor in another. I fully understand the right-brain, left-brain aspect of solving the poem. Without the use of both, I am not sure a solve is possible. JDA

          • CA Technologies (Computer Associates) Mainframe z/OS Engineer here.
            Thank you IBM/JD for indirectly supporting my entire career.

        • JDA, did you look down at the top of the waterfall? i think the chest is on a rock ledge , just below the top of a waterfall.IOM

    • I think this line in the poem is critical to figure out.
      “So why is it that I must go And leave my trove for all to seek?”

      “so why is it” we all have asked ourselves this question at sometime or another.
      This line is directly related to the 2nd stanza where it says “take it”.
      “it” is key when you follow the other meanings of the other words in this stanza.
      If you cannot figure out what “it” is then you don’t have a chance at figuring out the poem.

      “trove” is actually “vote r” which tells me we are up the creek without a paddle.
      When we get to that creek, you will have to plug in the word “leave” as in get the heck out of there.

      Never mind.
      I just think he’s asking us why he must go & hide the treasure for everyone to search for it…….

      • Thanks for your reply Jake. I like your trove = vote r and being up a creek without a paddle. Where is the “Neither” button? JDA

        • We are up a creek either way.
          Anyway, to elaborate more on this sentence we have to know why.
          The reason why is because he got cancer & this sentence was probably created when he was sick & ready to die.
          He probably wanted to leave this line in there so people would do some research & know why he wanted to do such an atrocious thing.

          It seems logical to me that this stanza is related to his past illness & how he felt.

          I don’t see any other lines in the poem that relate in this way & seeing the reason why he did it & how he felt, must need it’s own stanza.

          Why would he not hint or include in the poem what he was going through at this perceived devastating time of his life considering there would be no poem or treasure without out what had happened?

          Riddle me that….

          • Jake;

            For eight months I have interpreted these four lines exactly as you have described. I posed the questions because I seem to be at a loggers-head. I can not seem to go forward. I am VERY happy with everything including – But tarry scant with marvel gaze, Just take the chest and go in peace.

            I think I fully understand the last stanza, and what those words mean.

            Nothing in stanza #5 was actually connecting stanza #4 with stanza #6. That is why I posed the questions to see if others might have found physical things or actions that could connect the two stanza’s.

            Several interesting ideas have emerged. Will they be the key that I was looking for. I am not sure yet. Maybe you and I were correct right from the start, but it certainly doesn’t hurt to hear from people who have looked at these lines a bit differently.

            Thanks for your input Jake JDA

          • Pdenver may have given me a new moniker today – Gros Ventre – BIG BELLY – would you vote for me then? haha JDA

      • Jake/JDA,
        IMHO this line serves (2) purposes
        #1 Forrest wanted to publicly and officially – call IT a Trove – for a variety of legal option/reasons.
        #2 I have a theory about the reason it was called “indulgence” and speculate that will be revealed in the Fenn autobiography inside the “Trove.”
        I do not believe it to contain a clue to location although I would call the word “why” a hint/confirmation of location.

  115. nfbtftw “not far, but too far to walk” anagrams to “no raft, but owl took a raft”. Just thought I’d throw that in there. lol 🙂

  116. JDA,
    Re right brain/left brain above. That really didn’t come out how I meant it. I was alluding to different sections of the poem being solved in different manners like smaller puzzles within the larger puzzle and each one being solved in a different manner with some being something a left brain person would do well with and others that a right brain person would excel at.

    For example logic puzzles, word finds, crosswords, and mazes all take different parts of the brain to work. Those are not what I used but that explains what I’m talking about.

    Didn’t mean to sound derogatory, sorry if it sounded that way. Sometimes what’s in my head doesn’t make it to the page. 🙂

    • It didn’t sound derogatory to me at all! I took it as a compliment. I agree, different parts of the puzzle need to be looked at from a very analytical perspective whereas other parts require a bit of imagination.

      Like Spock would say, “Captain, look at it logically”
      It is ALL logical, but there are also beautiful fields of flowers amongst all of the data. “Data” may not be able to smell them, but he can perceive their beauty….maybe. JDA

    • Wy girl,
      Your last to post sparked a thought… one I have put on the back burner for a while. We are told to think and analyze… told not to go on a hunch. So, my thoughts go to a poem, and not just this poem, but the purpose of poems in general is to have each reader see it differently [ not all but again n general ]. Different interpretation for each to take away from the poem. And one of the reasons a poem is more or less allowed to change up words usages to mean many different things at once.

      Read the poem over and over and over again, read the book, re- read the poem, go back to the poem… etc. Why? if the poem is so straightforwards, Why? or is re-reading different interpretation needed to be seen. Some of my past examples were: a journey of who I is. Another was birth and death, another was geography and or combination of, and another was a ceremonial theme of a burial itself, a directional point to point. even stroies told in the book relate to other reading of the poem etc. etc. Is the purpose of re-reading the poem just to memorize it?
      Or are we needing to see those other possible interpretation and how the encompass each other [ hence fenn chose the avenue of a poem to present the clues]… so we can read the poem in it’s final stage as maybe fenn intended. The full circle thought, the know the place for the first time thought. Why does fenn feels he’s talking in circles?

      Not unlike fenn’s epilogue. And I’m not a big believer in illustration in the book as clues or even hints, but food for thought… the Adult with the tree stumps and the kid in the grave yard… give a helpful thought to this page.

      Of course, keep in mind that my right side of my brain is always in agreement with the left side.

      Just deep thinking.

      • Seeker,,
        I think there is more than one meaning in a lot of the content of the poem but not that you go through once then circle around and start over and go through again. More in the sense that a line/word means one thing literally or whatever and also could help you solve the next clue with a different meaning. I believe is is a big reason f chose a poem as the vehicle for delivering clues.

        IMO the whole poem solved has two meanings and two purposes. One is obviously the location of the chest and the other is something f wants to make clear. Also when solved you see it is circular in two ways, Physically and also in a way that allows you to go with confidence. By physically I do not mean that you end up back where you start but it in another way.

        I haven’t read all of your solves I can’t seem to find a lot of the archived content but then I’m very tech illiterate. But I think you are on the right track by thinking and analyzing different ways to look at and solve the poem. There is a reason no one has found the chest. I’ve been giving that a lot of thought and I don’t think it’s cause nobody’s bright enough. I also don’t think someone is going to stumble onto the correct solving method either because IMO it takes several solving methods to get there. And the only way to figure it out is to start at the beginning and go one step at a time and work slowly through the poem asking yourself at each juncture “What do I do next? What is f trying to tell me?” And don’t get stuck on one way of thinking.

        I don’t think the illustrations hold secret hints such as maps or hidden words but I haven’t really looked at them that closely but I don’t believe you need to decipher any thing like that to solve the poem. Like you I believe they help us think and visualize what’s being said and I do believe some of them can help solve the poem.

        • I agree, and disagree with this sentence.

          “By physically I do not mean that you end up back where you start but it in another way.”

          Last two lines of stanza #6 – “If you are brave and IN the wood I give you title to the gold.” I think that the “IN” circles back up to stanza #1 – “…alone IN there…” Once you figure out what “IN the wood” means, substitute that or those words for “In there” in stanza #1.

          “in the wood” might mean something like a geographical area in Wyoming as you read it the first time. so the second time you read the poem, “As I went alone into this geographical area in Wyoming etc…

          Next time, “…in the wood” might mean in a National Forest” – substitute – re-cycle – etc.

          This process takes you from a global area to an exact location where the treasure is secreted…or so I hope. JDA

        • Wygirl,
          The overall concept to your line of thinking and mine have cross road meetings… if I read your post correctly. Multiple Meanings and usages of words has been my main concentration from the start. But i wonder if because more than one meaning can be usable in poems, could those different readings of interpretations be combined and not so much… i can read the poem this way, but it doesn’t really tell me how to find the chest and I can read the poem another way with the same results etc… however when combining those thoughts and different interpretations… the word usages seem to pop with a better understanding of how the poem feels, seems, in a layer form. Multiple meanings and usages.

          My example will be; Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down.
          Begin it as to start, and as a place in time. Where is also seen this way. Warm as in temperature of any liquid water[s] and warm a in a seeker indicating closeness. Halt to temperately change the direction of the flow of water[s] and stop for the Seeker is near the desire location. That is a combination of two different ways of reading the poem [for that sentence]. But there are other ways the poem can be understood as well.

          In the scenario above it implies the water[s] takes it in the canyon down which its travel is long and too far to walk it all. As well as telling the searcher to stop, Not far. You are in the location needed.
          Again that is two different meanings or word usage / two interpretation… but I can see how other interpretations [ readings ] such as birth and death etc. can be utilized with those first two readings. So look at it this way:
          One reading is one exploration.
          Another is a second exploration.
          Third yet another exploration, and so on
          And in the end we’ll know the place for the first time line of thinking.

          Is this the purpose of having to read the poem over and over and over ~ to see the possibilities of different interpretations and utilize them to a single correct reading to understand how it all fits to locate the chest? Is this in part how some have deciphered the first two clues and walked past everything else… they got one interpretation correct but didn’t understand the others that might be need to understand the poem [ and other clues ] as a whole?
          That straightforward, certain beforehand, all the information is in the poem, and those subtle hints that can help… if you know what your looking, for finalization of a solve.

          Sure any single interpretation can be straightforward, including stomping out clues, but maybe the “difficult but not impossible” point is what a poem can do… freedom of word usages for interpretation[s], that other forms of writing can not do on this level… I’ll add, it might be why we can see/interpret clues/hints in everything fenn says. We’re just not lining it all up correctly.

  117. Hi JD – you’ve sparked an interesting discussion here. I’d love to tell you what I think those lines mean – because I like you – but posting it here would give away too much. I suppose I’m with Vox on this one: I want someone who’s earned it to find the treasure. If you’re interested and there’s a safe way to connect with you privately please let me know. My apologies to all here if this comes across as arrogant.

  118. Hey there, ex-sculptor, IMO- ”Leave” my trove = hide under a canopy of leaves until rescued. A big earth slide in GV, like at Hebgen means the tree canopy wooda been severed too. At the waterfall, nose-to-nose with rows & rank describes a range. Check the etymology.

    I read that a downstroke of the hand on the chest/trunk/torso, or a patting of the abdomen was Indian sign language implying self, or tribe. French misinterpretation of the sign as Big Belly, was just as wrong as their war. But winners draw the maps.

    Spend a minute and think how to put an X on a map… you can do it with your lids closed, then cross your legs.

    “The poem is all you need”….. is in that 15% range, From an ex-potter.

    • OS2

      Nice – “Leave” my trove = hide under a canopy of leaves until rescued.

      To quote Forrest, ““When I was a kid, more than seventy-five years ago, my father and I often walked the wooded hills and among the creek bottoms in Texas, …”

      Lots of references to trees – like this one, ““And when my tackle box is closed at last and the cadis hatch is gone, I will rest through all of time and space, pillowed down and scented in, with a smile that comes with remembering the special things that brought me to that (this) final place…”

      Makes a lot of sense. Thanks OS2 JDA

  119. Interesting… search on the Home of Brown thread:

    OS2 on September 25, 2016 at 1:13 pm said:

        • You’re welcome, OS2. Which publishing year is your “Flywater” book? I believe I’ve read the publishing years differ a bit from each other, but I may be mistaken. I had considered buying one over a year ago, but I, regretfully, never did.

          • What an excellent price, OS2! I’m trying to find some information about it now. Does this book only mention one of the states for which the treasure chest may be? I’ve read states, but only saw one of them mentioned. It could be that’s how the publishers listed the book. I really don’t know. It sounds like a great book either way. I would love to get one of those winning beauties on my line.

  120. I have a slightly different take from zaphod re WWWH. Although I originally approached it from something outside the poem, it is most definitely referenced (and confirmed) in the poem. If it were not, how would you ever know you had the correct place?

    Additionally, call it a trajectory, a path, a map or a drawing, but I believe that following the clues correctly enables you to see a picture unfold as you progress. This pattern is also something that FF has referenced on many occasions. I believe that if the shape that emerges is coherent, and consistent with your understanding of the poem and FF, then you may receive added confirmation.

    Zap and I may actually have identified the same places referenced by the first two clues, but it’s not essential to look outside the poem initially – although imagination and a knowledge of geography help enormously!

  121. Seeker, I’m curious. From your considerable research and questioning, how far do you think you’ve progressed with the clues? Do you have a path – partial or complete – that you’d like to explore?

    I ask because you’re such a regular contributor, but I can’t tell if it’s helping you firm up ideas or not.

    • Vox ~ “Seeker… do you think you’ve progressed with the clues?”
      Simple answer: No.
      I think I have processed in the poem.
      I face facts when it comes to “clues” … I can’t be sure of a clue unless I can be somewhat certain of blueprint of the poem as he calls it. I use to call it structure of the poem, but fenn seems to always have a better description than I.
      I have looked at this poem from the 9 line = 9 clues point of view. Looked at it from the 9 sentences to 9 clues point of view. Looked at it from there are 9 sentence and there are clues, period.
      I can read the poem many ways with, so far 4 to 5 different possibilities of full interpretations… That is not saying clues are any amount of counting… just different reading themes for lack of a better term.
      When you mention research, I cringe. I have studied words meaning and usages, and not only the Harvard dictionary style meanings. I have looked up information that I’m simply not familiar with, but should have been. I look up information for refreshing old info that was laying around and collocated dust.
      I don’t get into thousand of hours of computer or encyclopedia research or study outside resources. I do spend time chatting with others who have the same interest in the challenge. Main reason is, they say something and it sparks a thought… even if that thought was nothing like what they were saying.

      My goal is to understand the poem and not assume I understand the poem. One thing I feel to be true. The poem seems to be designed to help the reader solve itself…. with 99% being done by multiple meanings of the words and how they are usable in meanings and placement in the poem. As of late, I have gone over many of fenns comments to use in an investigating manor to help eliminate what is not working and what is possible. One simple example is the first two clue comments. I don’t or never have thought fenn is handing out “clues” like candy in interview, SB’s Q&A’s or secreting messages, I do think many thing fenn states is for food of thought… a kick in the butt if you will to look at the poem for those WhatIF.

      LOL. Bet ya like the simple answer better. I don’t fool myself to “know” anything. I’m honest with myself to say…. straightforwards doesn’t always mean easy, undemanding, not complicated. fenn dedicated a lot of effort and time and patience to the poem. That same dedication might be needed to solve the poem. Like I said before… I’m not in a race with anyone.

      I have a question as well. Who hear remembers the days when comments such as theses were made with vigor and all knowing…?
      All we need to do is decipher the correct wwwh and were golden or all we need to do is decipher the first clue, and were going to the chest.
      Ah! we all knew so much… when we didn’t know the facts. lol how things never change.

      • Thank you, Seeker, for such a detailed reply. In one way, it’s certainly a more efficient method – not chasing all over the Rockies (and getting disappointed), but I wonder if you can imagine a time when you’ll be sure enough in your own mind to commit to a path. Maybe it’s the tortoise and the hare – there are a lot of hares here (I think I probably fall into that category), but the tortoise (or maybe turtle) will win the day.

        • Vox… you hit in on the nose, imo. The poem is / was designed to do just that.
          Chasing all over the Rockies.
          That is the cleverness of the poem from what I can see. The wit and work put into the poem is a whole other animal… like fenn said, if it was easy anyone could do it. I guess that includes Joe Average to.

          • Seeker,
            Thought I would poke my head in and render some thoughts. This is not specifically directed at any particular searchers though I’m sure some will choose to take offense.

            The straightforward statements may be tripping some folks up. Most people that jump on the straightforward statements seem to want WWH to be a hot spring, TFTW to be exactly 10 miles, and “the chest is wet” to mean it’s in a lake, river, swamp, etc. I think what’s missing here is remembering that Fenn said, “Whoever finds the treasure will mostly earn it with their imagination.” Is it imaginative to use TFTW as a distance of 10 miles when F directly implied this in the book TFTW? Not very subtle and we’ve been warned that hints are subtle. Could the chest have been placed in moving water? Anyone that’s seen a house being swept away on the News at 11 in a spring flood should know that a relatively tiny open chest has no chance of staying in one place, and is sooner (rather than later) going to be strung out over miles of river bottom in no time like gold placer nuggets. That’s just common sense.

            In many cases I think straightforward is being confused with literal and easy to figure out. It’s my opinion that there is probably very little in the poem that is to be taken literally. It’s the imagination part (or lack there of) that makes this hard but “not impossible”. A man with an imagination wrote the poem and an imagination will be needed to decode it. The question is: How do we get inside Forrests imagination?

            So you’re absolutely correct….without the imagination part in place, a searcher will be Chasing all over the Rockies.

          • Colokid;

            I am not Seeker, but as one of those Straightforward kind of guys, I have to disagree with you on a couple of points.

            In MY solve, wwwh – I use warm and water – It works

            For Nf,btftw – I come out at almost exactly 10 miles by car or 11.3 miles by water conveyance.

            I once thought that the TC WAS in water, I no longer think so, so we can agree there.

            What is your favorite drink Colokid? Alcoholic or other wise.

            Whatever it is, I bet you one drink that the final solve will be VERY straightforward. Do we have a bet?

            Try to STAY SAFE out there folks


          • JD,
            Sure JD…I’d love for you to buy me a beer, LOL.

            Unfortunately, we both know that’s an uncollectable bet since we would never agree on what constitutes ‘straightforward’.

            I’d like to discuss this further but got to leave for a couple hours so I’ll get back shortly.

          • Colokid: everything about your post is exactly right:

            “Most people that jump on the straightforward statements seem to want WWH to be a hot spring, TFTW to be exactly 10 miles, and “the chest is wet” to mean it’s in a lake, river, swamp, etc.”

            Yes: all three assumptions are erroneous.

            “I think what’s missing here is remembering that Fenn said, “Whoever finds the treasure will mostly earn it with their imagination.” Is it imaginative to use TFTW as a distance of 10 miles when F directly implied this in the book TFTW? Not very subtle and we’ve been warned that hints are subtle.”


            “Could the chest have been placed in moving water? Anyone that’s seen a house being swept away on the News at 11 in a spring flood should know that a relatively tiny open chest has no chance of staying in one place, and is sooner (rather than later) going to be strung out over miles of river bottom in no time like gold placer nuggets. That’s just common sense.”

            Again, spot on. The ridiculousness of thinking that Forrest would submerge over a million dollars worth of goodies and cross his fingers that nothing bad would happen in a decade, let alone a century or a millennia. He said he thought of everything.

            “In many cases I think straightforward is being confused with literal and easy to figure out. It’s my opinion that there is probably very little in the poem that is to be taken literally.”

            None of the important clues are literal, and that is what’s tripping people up. Most insist on reading the poem like a travelogue when it’s a cleverly crafted, multi-faceted puzzle. As another searcher posted, it requires both right- and left-brain thinking. The only thing “straightforward” about the puzzle is that clues 1 and 2 lead you to clue 3, which leads you to clue 4, and so forth.

          • Ya, I agree Zap,
            TFTW is not a clue seeing it is the title of his book.
            Not so subtle at all.
            10 miles, would not be subtle either.
            I like the area as a clue but not NFBTFTW.
            I think he’s just telling us to get off your feet & float.

          • JD,
            “If it was easy anyone could do it. Whoever finds the treasure will mostly earn it with
            their imagination. F”
            I’m a scientist and engineer. I live in the world of logic, physics, and reason. You are a sculptor. I presume you live in the world of creativity, abstract, and emotions. For that reason, I suspect that we won’t agree on much but I’ll try to make some points. I would think you would have a leg up on me when it comes to the imagination department.
            You said: “ I use warm and water – It works”. Question #1: How is it that you know it works? What you really mean is that you believe or hope it works within the solution that you constructed. There is no such thing as knowing any clue for sure unless you have the chest in hand. Forrest has said as much and that’s just common sense.
            You lifted 10 miles straight out of the TFTW book. Question #2: Do you really believe Forrest would give you a straight up answer to a clue? That didn’t require much imagination or solving did it? Seems a bit too easy to me. Further, Forrest has told us that you can’t get other clues without solving the first one. That becomes a lie if all you have to do is read the answer to clue 3 or 4 straight out of the book.
            So I actually believe that poem is straightforward too but I interpret this much differently than most people. I think most people confuse straightforward with simple and literal.
            “It is straight forward so there is no need to over-think it or look for commas and misspellings as clues. It was not written with the idea of fooling anyone. F”
            “The poem is straight forward with no subterfuge in sight….F”
            Notice how SUBTERFUGE and FOOLING ANYONE form a common theme. IMO he uses straightforward in a colloquial way to express that there is no deceit intended. This is much different than saying the answers are simple or literal.

            Question #3: If the clues answers are simple and literal, why is the use of imagination required?

            Final point: If I understand your approach from the posts you’ve made, then it appears that you are going to the same general area over and over expecting a different outcome each time. It also appears that you have tweaked the last couple of clues slightly (upstream, not in the stream?). Here’s a problem with that which you may be overlooking. The nine clues have some form of interdependency (e.g. you can’t get later clues without solving the first). So if you screw up on the first clue you are going to be miles off the mark by the time you get to the end. If you only adjust the last couple of clues, believing that the prior ones can’t be wrong, you may be kidding yourself. I applaud your steadfast conviction but many have been down that same road in the same kind of ruts and can’t seem to extricate themselves either. In conclusion, your advice to “settle on a strategy” may not be the best advice.

            Personally I have never gone to the same place twice. Generally speaking a single concerted BOG search is sufficient to tell me where I errored. But that’s me and I exercise a lot of critical thinking.

            I wish you luck with your approach.

          • Hi Jake – “Ya, I agree Zap, TFTW is not a clue seeing it is the title of his book. Not so subtle at all.”

            Just for clarification, I didn’t say that TFTW wasn’t a clue. I was agreeing with Colokid that NF,BTFTW wasn’t 10 miles (per the book TFTW). As you say, that would hardly be subtle. It’s definitely a clue; it’s just not the type that people think it is. It may be the hardest clue in the whole puzzle, depending on your individual skill sets. It is completely unsolvable without having the right starting point.

          • Oh, got that wrong Zap,
            But what makes you think the title of his book would be a clue & subtle?
            Seems to me it’s like hitting a tack with a sledge hammer.

          • Colo –

            You said “I’m a scientist and engineer. I live in the world of logic, physics, and reason.”

            Doesn’t a scientist at some point have to stop and think ? If that didn’t work then what in the world of Fenn would work.

            At sometime you had to stop and think about how perhaps you would do this. How would you create a treasure hunt, keeping in mind – perhaps a certain type of person would find it. There is your quest. Would you make the words in the book mean something else? Would you place things around the edges. What would you do if you were to invent a treasure hunt. That is how I found a solve that works for me. It may be not the right one – but it is one. And it always takes me to the same spot.

          • Into,

            You said: “At sometime you had to stop and think about how perhaps you would do this. How would you create a treasure hunt, keeping in mind – perhaps a certain type of person would find it.”

            Well I agree that thinking about how F created the Chase is extremely important and that is something I do all the time. Now did he intend for a certain “type” of person to find it? There may well be a certain personality set that will help but he couldn’t know what would happen in the future.

            Did he sprinkle things around the edges? If that means what I think then no, I wouldn’t agree. I think he’s made that clear but that’s my opinion.

            So you keep going to the same spot over and over like JD. Every cross your mind that you need to take a fresh look at the whole process? I’m guessing no.

      • Seeker – Because your long answer wasn’t long enough… 🙂 I want to pick your brain further.

        Do you think that once a person is able to correctly approach the poem according to how f designed it – once they figure out how to read the blueprint – do you expect the answers or solutions to each clue to be fairly easy to identify or still challenging to work through?

        • LOL JCM,
          I’ll try to keep it short. But ass you know very well, there is 6 years of after the fact comments and when I post thoughts for or against anything, I have a lot of info to help explain different reasoning. So we all tend to have longer post as the years go on. If we don’t listen to fenn’s warnings, suggestions, and all the other tidbits… what’s the point of wanting/asking for more bones to chew on.

          I’m going to us two other searcher comments to answer the question in paraphrase… with my own twist added;
          The poem was designed for us to fail, at first, like a learning process…
          In the end the solve will be elegant with understanding of ‘what took me so long’…

          Fenn gave us a “challenge.” And long before a searcher put one foot on top of the other, he warned us it would be difficult. That says to me he knew exactly what his challenge was going to be like or wanted it to be.
          Like Colokids comment on straightforwards is a great example of how we make it even more challenged… it seems we fool ourselves to think clues are easy.

          So is the poem or the clues difficult by design, and / or, by our own human faults of what we think the design is?
          lol Sorry, it seems I answered the question with a question… because, in all honestly it’s all I have… Questioning/dissecting my interpretations. And I’m ok with that. My ego can handle disappointments, and is still intact.

        • Hi JCM – I know you specifically asked Seeker, but I hope you don’t mind if I chime in as well. Forrest’s techniques for hiding each clue are not the same, so you won’t know the whole “blueprint” after you uncover the first clue. Instead, you will have the “ahha” moment that the poem is a clue delivery vehicle. To borrow a term from cryptography, if we all didn’t know that the poem held the clues needed to find the treasure chest, it would be called steganography.

          The short answer to your question is that each clue is still challenging to work through. The clues are hard, in part, because each is a little different from the others. Solving that first clue, for instance, is not a slam-dunk for solving the second. And even when you think you have the answer to the first two clues, your confidence that you are right won’t skyrocket until you solve the third clue.

          I’ll leave you with something to ponder. Have you ever wondered why most of the poem words are so short? 75% of its words have 4 or fewer letters, which is unusual. The longest word (treasures) has 9, there are no 8-letter words, and only a handful with 7. Most of the words are single syllable, and no word has more than two syllables. Now compare this with Forrest’s books and his scrapbooks…

          • “Already”, has 3 syllables. Im intrigued by your comment Zaphod. Are you willing to expound further?

  122. This is what was ‘well said’: Question #3: If the clues answers are simple and literal, why is the use of imagination required?

  123. Colokid;

    I moved my reply over here, because the space was just too narrow to give you a complete reply without it being way too long. I am going to cut and paste your entire post, and comment along the way. I may delete a line or two of your post, but will try to give you as complete an answer as I can. Here goes:

    “If it was easy anyone could do it. Whoever finds the treasure will mostly earn it with their imagination. F”

    I agree!

    I’m a scientist and engineer. I live in the world of logic, physics, and reason.

    I too worked as a systems Engineer in IBM so I have more than just a creative mind.

    You are a sculptor. I presume you live in the world of creativity, abstract, and emotions. For that reason, I suspect that we won’t agree on much but I’ll try to make some points.

    I think you will be surprised at what we can agree on

    I would think you would have a leg up on me when it comes to the imagination department. Maybe ???

    You said: “ I use warm and water – It works”. Question #1: How is it that you know it works? What you really mean is that you believe or hope it works within the solution that you constructed.

    Please do not presume to know what I meant. I meant exactly what I said. True, I do not have the chest yet, but I will soon. (Just my opinion – no conceit intended) The reason that I can say that it works is because (as I have posted several times) an obscure definition of in “the wood” tells the searcher to go to an exact geographical area in Wyoming. When you get there, physical or on a map or GE you will see something that you will know instantly is the correct wwwh. LOGIC, not imagination tells me this is true.

    There is no such thing as knowing any clue for sure unless you have the chest in hand. Forrest has said as much and that’s just common sense.

    It MAY be common sense, but if the poem TOLD me where to go, and I found it, That to me is proof enough at this point.

    You lifted 10 miles straight out of the TFTW book. Question #2: Do you really believe Forrest would give you a straight up answer to a clue?

    Absolutely. The chase has been going on now almost seven years, and one man has died, and a searcher or two has been lost for at least a day. I suspect that Forrest is TIRED, and wants the quest to end, so yes, I absolutely think that he told the world that Nf, btftw = 10 miles.

    That didn’t require much imagination or solving did it?

    You are right, it didn’t,

    Seems a bit too easy to me.

    But then again, that is just YOUR opinion, not fact.

    Further, Forrest has told us that you can’t get other clues without solving the first one. That becomes a lie if all you have to do is read the answer to clue 3 or 4 straight out of the book.

    Wrong assumptions. What is the first clue? Biwwwh? Wrong. Clue #1 is the entire first stanza. In MY opinion.

    Just because Forrest GAVE us clue #3 how does “That becomes a lie if all you have to do is read the answer to clue 3 or 4 straight out of the book.?”

    So I actually believe that poem is straightforward too but I interpret this much differently than most people. I think most people confuse straightforward with simple and literal.

    I 100% agree

    “It is straight forward so there is no need to over-think it or look for commas and misspellings as clues. It was not written with the idea of fooling anyone. F”

    I 100% agree. (P.S. you use straightforward in one sentence and straight forward in the next, and these two have very different meanings. Which one do you mean?)

    “The poem is straight forward with no subterfuge in sight….F” – Agreed

    (This is a correct quote, but then Forrest defines it as if it were straightforward – interesting)

    Notice how SUBTERFUGE and FOOLING ANYONE form a common theme. IMO he uses straightforward in a colloquial way to express that there is no deceit intended. This is much different than saying the answers are simple or literal. 100% agree

    Question #3: If the clues answers are simple and literal, why is the use of imagination required?

    Several of the words require imagination to find and use the correct meaning. Accepting every word at face value requires no imagination. Being imaginative enough to seek alternate definitions, and then correctly applying these old, archaic or obscure definitions requires great imagination

    Final point: If I understand your approach from the posts you’ve made, then it appears that you are going to the same general area over and over expecting a different outcome each time.

    That is kinda like saying, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. True.

    The question is why have I returned to the same GENERAL area multiple times? Answer – primarily on site conditions like Ice, snow, or torrential waters.

    I have moved my actual search site three times, all within the same general area. I was smart enough to LEARN where I might have been wrong, or misinterpreted something. I am sure that as a scientist you have tried multiple approaches to resolving a problem. You did not just give up the first time when an experiment failed. You used deductive reasoning, found where you were in error and tried to correct that error.

    It also appears that you have tweaked the last couple of clues slightly (upstream, not in the stream?).

    False assumption = false outcome. I have done no such thing. I have moved upstream more than once (see above reasons)

    True, yesterday I decided that the TC probably is NOT IN my stream, but on the bank. I changed one of my basic premises. Probably I can now have a more accurate result.

    Here’s a problem with that which you may be overlooking. The nine clues have some form of interdependency (e.g. you can’t get later clues without solving the first).

    100% agree

    So if you screw up on the first clue you are going to be miles off the mark by the time you get to the end.

    TRUE – but if I screwed up clue #9 only, and I corrected that, success is possible without changing any of the previous clues.

    If you only adjust the last couple of clues, believing that the prior ones can’t be wrong, you may be kidding yourself.

    I MAY be kidding myself, and I may not. Time will tell.

    I applaud your steadfast conviction but many have been down that same road in the same kind of ruts and can’t seem to extricate themselves either. In conclusion, your advice to “settle on a strategy” may not be the best advice.

    And your advice to NOT settle on a strategy may not be the best advice.

    Personally I have never gone to the same place twice. Generally speaking a single concerted BOG search is sufficient to tell me where I errored. But that’s me and I exercise a lot of critical thinking.

    As do I, and that is why I returned. Maybe YOU walked away from the correct solve???

    I wish you luck with your approach.

    As do I with yours.


    • JD,

      JD: “True, I do not have the chest yet, but I will soon.” Wish I had a dollar for every time I’ve heard that boast.

      JD: “When you get there, physical or on a map or GE you will see something that you will know instantly is the correct wwwh.” Again, wish I had a dollar…..

      JD: ” I suspect that Forrest is TIRED, and wants the quest to end, so yes, I absolutely think that he told the world that Nf, btftw = 10 miles.” People been saying that for 6 years. And you do realize that Randy’s passing and many of the other near misses happened well after TFTW was published so those events don’t line up well to make your case.

      JD: “Just because Forrest GAVE us clue #3 how does “That becomes a lie if all you have to do is read the answer to clue 3 or 4 straight out of the book.?” It’s simple logic. F said you can’t find/know later clues without first SOLVING the first clue. I assume you agree the TFTW is a clue? If anybody can simply read the answer to that clue in the book TFTW without solving anything, then that makes Forrest’s statement about needing to solve #1 (whatever that is) false.

      JD: “P.S. you use straightforward in one sentence and straight forward in the next, and these two have very different meanings. Which one do you mean?)” That’s a Forrest quote….. not me talking.

      Let’s reformat the bet. I’ll give you 1 year from today to find the chest in your spot. If you find it there (where you’re currently searching give or take 1/4 mile) I’ll owe you a case of your favorite beer. If you haven’t you owe me. Based on your responses I’m feeling pretty confident. Too bad I have to wait a whole year….I’m thirsty. I wonder if Blog gambling is legal? LOL

      Kid over and out.

      • Kid;

        Thanks for responding. I can’t agree much with your logic above, but that is just me. Perhaps others can.

        When I make my statements that reflect my confidence in my solve, I am not trying to be boastful or egotistical. I am just confident.

        And…I will put my money where my mouth is, and do you one even better – I will make it six months vs. a year.

        I do not drink beer, but a nice bottle of Seagrams 7 would do fine. JDA

          • JD,
            Come on now. I have followed you since you stepped into the Chase. I know that you have more common sense than to make a idiotic bet like that. You are searching in an area that is already getting snow. Then when the winter is gone you will have to deal with the water run-off. You are going to lose at least
            90 days for winter, 30 days for run-off and that’s at best…You are making a bet for 183 days and you are losing 120 days for the above, leaving you with “maybe”
            60 good days… God help you if we have a long winter, a long spring or anything else. Think it over, you are much to bright to get sucked into that deal…

  124. Whew… I feel like the register guy …” showing more patience than I felt at that moment while two borderline biddies were preoccupied with some kind of breathtaking nonsense at the expense of my time and patience.”

    • You ready for a surprise, OS2? The line you quoted above contains one of the “subtle hints” that Forrest says is sprinkled in the pages of TTOTC!

      • Ahh… back from the dog park & poop detail…. So, Zap, Time and Patience are the X & Y? i merely thought all the grinning and sniffering had something to do with sulfur geysers. Register didn’t register until now, but Store #1 always haunted me. More fun tonight.

    • OS2;

      I seldom post long posts. Colokid chose to point out a number of things that I disagreed with, which were pointed directly at me. Should I have let them go unchallenged? This is a forum for discussing ideas. Sorry it was so long. Hope I didn’t sound like an old biddie. JDA

      • I know you do JDA, and I appreciate the content you put out. I usually appreciate your brevity and clarity along with the logic, Too many seem to think opinions are the bread of life and they build tedious piles of minutia. My opinion is… say it, own it, done.

  125. to find where wwwh you have to think – what does not far but to far to walk mean just what is says – not far

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