I Think The Chest is Here…Part Three



This page is now closed to new comments. To continue the conversation please go to the latest “I Think The Chest Is Here” page.

Many searchers have decided the chest is in a general area…maybe even a specific area of the known universe of the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe. So this is the place where we can talk about where we, as individuals, think the chest is at…Don’t give away too much though… 🙂


673 thoughts on “I Think The Chest is Here…Part Three

  1. James TZP please explain why you think it is in the water in Montana? (Yeah I am the first to post on the new page)

  2. I’m
    thinking Jemez Nat Rec area but not sure if this area falls within the boundaries on his map. Does anyone know?

    • I think it is in Colorado. A strong second is Montana and thirdly Wyoming . I don’t consider New mexico the slightest possibility. I looked at all locations quite thoroughly with an open mind and with as much investigative prowess that I have. I have only been at this for just over a month since I have been home recovering and had the time . I have read and read comments, analysis, videos and the poem over and over. Cleared all that and started afresh and used all that I gleaned as a control against a renewed perspective. In six years no one has found it. I see that there is a rather continuity of thought in the searchers that I have read on this site and others. Very well put together ideas and I am not saying mine is in any way a level above by any stretch. I just realize my thoughts and ideas are the same and also different . I thought for sure it was here then it was there and then here and then there again! Which I found is as same as others.Then I had my aha moment! Is it really that simple? I believe that at least half the poem is from a Pilot’s perspective.

      After all said and done:

      It is in my opinion, strong opinion, that it is west of Colorado Springs within 200 km’s .

      Brown in the poem is- Mary Babnik Brown , I started from there. You can see how she kind of fits in with Mr. Fenn history.

      I can see allot of heads shaking already…lol. For another 6 years! Haha. If one would triangulate this with Pueblo it could also be around Leadville. Oh boy, never ending!


      • Here’s my question Shane. If you’ve already determined the Home of Brown, why do warm waters and canyon down matter at all?

        • To Seabee88,

          “Here’s my question Shane. If you’ve already determined the Home of Brown, why do warm waters and canyon down matter at all?”

          There are 3 potential Brown’s here-

          Mary Babnik Brown of Pueblo- Hair used for Norden Bombsights WW2- True not a hoax.

          Molly Brown (The Unsinkable) of Leadville- The Titanic.

          Charlie Brown (Schultz) Colorado Springs Wall Painting- Comics.

          To answer your question of “why do warm waters and canyon down matter at all”?:

          Think like an air force pilot! Allot of this is as viewed from above. FF did say Google and a good map is very useful!

          “Why” to you most certainly will be different of “why” to me. The meanings and leanings are vastly open to interpretation as many as there are thoughts in the world. Only FF currently knows the exactness.

          warm waters halt – Elevation,clouds. I view this in allegory speak, perhaps not literal speak.
          canyon down ( including whole sentence) is taking in the view, looking down from above it looks like a canyon( not capitalized).

          So this is my meaning of “put in below the home of Brown” , as viewed from above. Home means a town, city or area. Not a structure.

          Sorry for the length but it is required to answer the question.


          • Shane, You said;
            “warm waters halt – Elevation,clouds. I view this in allegory speak, perhaps not literal speak.
            canyon down ( including whole sentence) is taking in the view, looking down from above it looks like a canyon( not capitalized).”

            If WWWH and Canyon Down, NFBTFTW are any of the first or second clues… how can those searcher who were at the first two clue and walked pass the other seven…, be in the clouds and taking in the view?

          • To Seeker,

            Your question “if WWWH and Canyon Down, NFBTFTW are any of the first or second clues… how can those searcher who were at the first two clue and walked pass the other seven…, be in the clouds and taking in the view?”

            One would have to be at an elevation ( perhaps a mountain, an easily accessible mountain high that you could drive to) that is high enough for clouds to form . A place that families can go and easily an 80 ear old man also. A place of historical significance that once could say what he created looks like a blaze due to heavy lodes or esoteric loads, heavy heart ect.- all allegory to me ( it is a poem after all!) . You look down and see something or an area of interest (marvel gaze). The afternoon sun lights up the area and spot to an appearance of a flaming blaze . It appears you could walk to it but it is best to drive to it. You get there where you can park but the spot is off the beaten path but still easily to get there. There will be people close by being that it is parkland but they’re their only if really interested in that spot. It is here from where you park to the spot that the other clues give the hint. When you are at this spot you can see that where you are now from where you were looking down is not that far. The name Brown I chose for this also shakes hands with the person known of this mountain historically also changed air force technology.

            All the rest of the poem I can somewhat place strong potentials in it but one must go and search there confident with their starting point to really see it. Allot of people here place his use of the word “peace” as in a warning of a potential consequence of not getting out of their quietly and not being seen or known. A fearful view of Peace if you ask me . Phew! We are finally out of the woods-peaceful.

            The really question is- How does one find their starting point? The first clue not in the poem is he was/is a pilot.

            Such a long answer to a short question lol.


          • Hello JD, nice to meet you.

            You wrote:

            ” Shane;

            The answer to where wwh is hidden in the wood in stanza #6.”

            I am new, so please explain. I fail to see what you mean.

          • Stanza #6 includes the words “In the wood” – figure out what these words mean, and you will be directed to Where Warm Waters Halt – or at least, that is my opinion.

            TRY to STAY SAFE


          • To JD,

            Thank you. I do understand it reads ” where warm waters halt”. Not -where warm water halts. My,’ out of the woods” comment wasn’t referring to the poem.

            Yes, if one was to figure out the words in the poem then they will easily find the treasure. Allegory interpretation is one of the most difficult interpretation of words in a sentence. For anyone to know in certainty what they mean is difficult because we are reading it from our own perspective of the words. Unless you are the writer of it , it can mean whatever you want- just like a picture.

            I believe it is in Colorado. Where do you think it is?



          • Shane,
            What history are you referring to?
            You said you are knew to the chase, so I’ll show you this Q&A for you to decide if it helpful or not.

            “Mr. Fenn, Is there any level of knowledge of US history that is required to properly interpret the clues in your poem. ~Steve R
            No Steve R,
            The only requirement is that you figure out what the clues mean. But a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help.”

          • To Seeker,

            I much appreciate your insight and information.

            Your FF Quote- ” No Steve R,
            The only requirement is that you figure out what the clues mean. But a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help.”

            This is very true because FF did say that. But geography alone is not all that this poem is for clues and points of reference . I read all that he has said also. Some history does apply, maybe if only one clue is a historical person, place, thing or event. Everyone on this blog with their solves and other sites all play the history tune in one way or another. Where to start with this poem is a history research one can do for one specific clue in the poem. From there it is mainly geography explained by written words derived from the history of the created word. A word is historical. It is not needed as FF has said but the words in his poem are not 100% geographical in their meanings. To lean on every word that FF says in a perceived literal succinct interpretation is so far a 6 year misdirection not intended by FF.

            Perhaps a geographic professor will be the one to find this treasure. If so, I will never find it nor attempt to.

            I guess I am foolish to think otherwise.

            Don’t take this as a disrespectful tone, for this is how I talk to myself also. lol.


    • JD, you posted this awhile ago but you said if you find out where “In the wood” is, then you will be directed to “where warm waters halt” is. All I’m going to say is what Fenn said himself. You need to follow the poem in order. And not to rearrange the poem. You have to start with the first clue and if you don’t have that, then you have nothing at all.

  3. After many arduous hours spent, he finally locates the treasure chest in..


    oh, wait a minute – ‘North of Santa’ who..?

    ..he frantically begins working on a ‘Plan B’


  4. Ok Iron Will you completely lost me with the “hiding it on an island and not on an island” statement.

    • greg, when an island is made in the middle of a lake, from the melting snow. Normally, when the water level is low, their is no island. just land. with melting snow causing more water to accumulate in the lake, raising the water level, island can form.

      with this example, lake would be near a mountain. in fact, whole area would be saturated at certain times of the year.

  5. There has been a lot of discussion about what FF meant in commenting
    on what he would see and smell if he was standing right where the TC is

    I think I know, to a precision of about 2 acres, where this is. But my
    concern — in analysis/verification — isn’t about trees or nuts. It’s about

    In May of 2016 I spent about 3 hours hiking in the area that I think is the
    correct one . . . and only stopped due to undesirable weather (snow). In
    all that time, I saw NO animals of any kind. So I think that FF was including humans when he mentioned that he would see animals . . . unless he was
    talking about the idea of standing there for a long enough time that some animals would eventually wander by. What a crafty guy he is . . . I did see
    a few non-human animals in the general vicinity, shortly before I parked
    and started hiking. And I also saw a lot of scat from at least 2 different
    species of mammals.

    I plan to leave California in about 2 weeks, on my next search trip.

    The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

    Good luck to all searchers. Please stay safe.

  6. I am a newby here. In reply to the post the other day about which was the odd one out; Treasure Island, Imagination, Knowledge or an Owl.
    Consider Treasure Island. It was written by Robert Louis Stevenson. And by coincidence the wreck of the E C Waters is on the shores of Stevenson Island in Yellowstone! This ties in with WWWH. You can consider that the boilers on the boat which heat water had been halted, or even that the boat itself had halted?
    Not sure if this has been raised before on this site.
    What do you think?
    This is all in my opinion of course.
    Happy hunting everyone.

  7. IMO…It seems it could be a likeness to the family leaving their possessions by driving two miles into Yellowstone and driving off the road into the trees and unload the trailer, and cover it with a tarp for the winter. (hopefully there are no porcupines messing with the chest) It’s in a place no one has gone to except Mr. Fenn, obviously. He has said if he were able to relive his life, he would do it different. I believe since moving to New Mexico, he has created his own legacy by hiding his chest in correlation to his surroundings. The Yellowstone experience is in the past. He has lived in New Mexico for 45 years, why wouldn’t he have new adventures and new discoveries be his inspiration to write the poem and keep his secret where? In New Mexico.

        • Yea, those claims were pretty bold.
          How could anyone be inches away & not have it?
          It’s still early over there. Let’s see what he has to say later on, if he’s not nuked…..

          • Somehow I don’t think will hear from him.
            We seem to be the few on the east side of the treasure. How many times have you made the trip?

          • Yes it is eagles,
            This is where the 9 clues & the word that is key in the poem took me.
            I cannot compare it to any other place & I have hiked quite a bit.
            No crowds here. Didn’t see a soul around on the hikes through the week.

          • This solve came about at the end of last year. I have searched in Cody & surrounding areas, the Firehole River, parts of the Madison & Gibbon in WY.
            A few creeks off the Gallatin. An just general recon above Hebgen.
            When I went to YNP park last year & realized it didn’t seem right. I kept my 1st few clues & tried to see if there was something else in the poem that would take me out of the park & I found that & the rest of the poem took me here.
            There probably aren’t many that recognize this place but I do know of a few searchers that have been here before me & I believe they were the ones 200′ away. Just speculation…..

          • I hope to go in late Sept.
            I need a partner though, my bro can’t go & I will not search alone there.
            If you want to see another nice pic? Just click on my name & go to my contact page & send me an email. I do not want to post it here, besides I don’t own the rights to the pic to post on the internet.
            You will see why this place is so special.

          • I would live to see another pic, but I’m not very tech savvy . When I tried to do what you said, nothing happened . ughhhhh
            Help me out here

          • Hey Jake, I’ll be near your spot in a few weeks; still working out logistics. Have you resolved the “bones in there” issue? (flood resistant open air burial). I might need someplace to look should my “in there” be too “out there”.

          • No Joseph,
            Haven’t resolved that.
            I think his remains would go back to the dirt either way.
            If you do not want to trek there, I don’t blame you. The last 300ft or so, you will need waders anyway & I don’t know if your willing to get wet. I do have size 11 waders in Montana you can use along with bear spray if you want.
            I still have to lay out the plans in detail for you to get in there.
            BTW, if your going to search alone, never mind my spot, just focus on yours.
            If something happens to you alone with no cell coverage & very few people go there, I do not want that on my conscience unless you are a mountain man.

          • Ya Joseph,
            That sounds like a better idea for recon.
            Well I hope you’re not sidetracked on your way to Santa Fe……
            OK, I’ll change that & hope you do find it.

            What I need is a few pics of the creek with some sort of size reference to go by.
            If the creek is too high when you go next month, I will know this is not the place & will only go there again just to experience that beautiful area.
            I will be in touch before you go.

            I know all about rushing water & how it can send you down stream in a heartbeat. LOL.
            I have great respect for Mother Nature & she will always show you who is in charge. I just wish others would understand her……

          • hehe, not a mountain man but I spent years wading flooding rivers.

            People! respect rushing water! It will take you down without a moments notice !!

            But, I’ll be with my family, so we’re definitely doing it 80 year old style. Sounds like the best we can do to assist you is a recon for current conditions. I suspect (assuming we are not sidetracked by a trip to Santa Fe) we will do YNP counter-clockwise from Gardiner, so we won’t be near your general area till the end of our trip.

  8. Mr Fenn
    First off I wanted to thank you for inspiring me to head west. I just returned from an unbelievable trip to the Rockies with my father-in-law. It’s been a rough year for me as I lost my dad to cancer in April and this vacation/treasure hunt came at the right time. I have sent two emails to your info@santafetradingco.com address seeking confirmation of what I found. I look forward to hearing from you.
    Thank you

  9. NM because I believe he MEANT NM when he originally said it was in the Rockies north of Santa Fe. He almost certainly didn’t take the chest on an airline. He would have to drive. He said his wife didn’t know the day he did it. He didn’t have an active pilots license at the time.The original book doesn’t talk about Colorado at all. He said his audience was every redneck in texas which is next door to NM.
    I’ve only been thinking about it for a couple weeks so I’m a newbie. Be nice.

  10. Well Jake, I take that back. I really don’t know what I’m doing. I tried though.
    Sorry I’m incompetent.

  11. Bay, were you the one who took down the street sign a 2 or 3 years ago? Is that how you hampered the search for others?

    • lol, no. I would never damage/vandalize public property. Anyways, I just started the search about a week ago. Went out once.

      • Now wait a minute. You started the search a week ago and been on a single search? Mr. Fenn spent 15 years writing a poem. Are you saying that you think you’ve cracked it in a week’s time?

        While I think that is preposterous, BC, I admit that I did nearly the same thing myself. When I first heard about The Chase on The Today Show in 2013, I got to work on it that day. By the time I went to bed that night I thought I had it narrowed down (of course this was partly because The Today Show erroneously reported that Fenn said he hid the chest in New Mexico). Within a week I thought I had it – everything tied out, I thought. But truthfully, I didn’t have a clue. I provide that admission to let you know that I’m not looking down on you or your enthusiasm.

        I believe that if you stay involved in this for a while you will realize that there is WAY more to The Chase (and Mr. Fenn) than first appearances.

        • Thank you. I learned a lesson about creative thinking when I was younger. It’s served me well. When I approach a problem that requires an original solution, I take my first three thoughts, drafts etc… and discard them. Once I’ve done that, I’m left with little choice but to think outside the box.

      • HEY BAY
        WHERE DID SEARCH? Sounds like private property.. I thought f said it’s not on Indian nor private property.
        That’s IMO but I’ve stayed out of that for that reason.
        Jake, any imput on this???

          • Wait……… You’ve been there at this location at least once.
            You are concerned about legality, later warrants, what would be involved with such, as a family.
            You haven’t mentioned the “Scariest” part yet… whatever that means.
            You say you know exactly where the chest is, but won’t go, even to check to see if it’s there?
            And now you’ve come up empty on researching the land?
            Molly Browns house

            Baywatch… This sounds more like a bad blonde joke in the making, rather than, you know were it is exactly.

          • I’m not as concerned about legalities as I was previously. But still, If I can find out what I need about the actual spot and the surrounding area I’d feel better. I can’t say with absolute certainty who’s land it is. I have time, so I’m preparing, planning and covering my bases. I have a hard time understanding why, even within inches, nobody can envision a situation where taking the chest, should it be there, may not be the wisest decision.

          • In a sense, it is a cornerstone. Once it’s pulled, it topples a community. One thing I think Mr. Fenn may have failed to take into consideration, at least at first, is the human factor at several different levels.

      • So Bay, did you remove or destroy the blaze so that none of us has a chance to find the chest?

        • I wouldn’t worry about someone destroying or removing the blaze John.
          I would be willing to bet the blaze will be there for a thousand years maybe more.
          Bay is just flinging crap to see what sticks & to get us to buy what doesn’t.

          • Just because the Blaze will be there in a hundred years doesn’t mean you can see it.

  12. What in the world are you talking about dude. I really don’t think any human civilizations are in danger if someone removes FF chest.

    • You’re right about that. But your inability to think outside the box is why you’re wrong.

      • Bay… not thinking what you’re thinking, does not make him wrong and you right. It just means you wish to view your reality with an isolated view. One where you are right and everyone else is wrong. You have to try and overcome that.

        • Jake-
          Not at all. There are folks who try to get on the blog and never even get their first comment posted. We get our share of troglodytes, trolls, bible thumpers, hedonists, political morons, the senseless, the profane, threats and spammers.

          I try to be tolerant but Goofy usually sets me straight 🙂

          • I had to look up troglodytes.
            Kinda sounds like a small pet you want to keep caged up.
            Goofy has his work cut out for him.
            I think he deserves a raise above 5000′ but below 10200′. 😉

          • I’ve always known what troglodytes are. I’ve played dungeon and dragons type computer games for 30 years 🙂

          • I’m so misunderstood. 🙂

            Dal’s right, you wouldn’t believe the ones that don’t make it on the blog. I had no idea there were so many nasty crazy people in the world. It’s scary out there.

          • Dal

            I had to ask my recent wife (Merriam-Webster) the meaning of ‘troglodytes’.

            After I stopped laughing, I realised just how truly great some words can be.

            tipping my hat in your direction

          • Goofy and Dal – perhaps you should make a collection of some of the nut job postings that are worthy of posting in a “crazies” section, kinda like the “Forrest gets mail”.

            Might be great for some good laughs and eye rolls.

          • ..but doesn’t “especially the ones facing south” (re: light and warm rock shelters) entirely depend on which hemisphere they lived in?

          • Iron Will,

            Have you made a D&D campaign based on yer solve? Cause Id love to play.

        • I believe it Goofy, I just don’t want to know the details about these nut cases.
          As long as they keep it in cyberspace & don’t take it to the physical level, I think we will be OK.

          Your raise is right in the middle at 7600′ give or take a hundred feet.

          • Now I have to ask the question why he chose 10,200′ & not 10,000′.

            5,000 ft is a nice round number, so why 10,200′?

            There is obviously a reason why he stated this & added an extra 200′ to the nice round number of 10,000′.

            Divide the distance from both in half & add it to the lower value or subtract it from the higher value. You get the same result obviously.

            7,600 ft. Now he wouldn’t want to give the exact elevation so your looking for where the TC lies at an elevation of 7,600 – 7,699 feet above sea level.

            Just my illogical thinking.

          • To Jake Faulker,

            Nice eye on that. Illogical doesn’t mean it is ill. Common knowledge is all that common. I think you are on to something interesting and specific.


          • o Jake Faulker,

            Nice eye on that. Illogical doesn’t mean it is ill. Common knowledge isn’t all that common. I think you are on to something interesting and specific.

            Opps Isn’t not is. I resent edited


          • Thanks Shane,
            Didn’t think much about it before until I mentioned it above joking around with Goofy.
            It just seems weird he wouldn’t have stated 10,000 ft.
            Then I noticed my search area where I think the chest is, the elevation is a little above 7,600 ft.
            Maybe just another strange coincidence with my area, but they keep popping up every couple of weeks.
            Either way, I think there is a reason why he stated below 10,200 ft.
            On his website the 10th clue states:
            Clue #10
            The treasure is hidden higher than 5,000 feet above sea level.
            I would assume the 10,200 ft statement came later.

          • @Jake I remember reading somewhere that Forrest mentioned hypoxia setting in at a certain elevation. I may be mistaken, but I think he specifically mentioned 10,000 or 10,200 feet. Furthermore, there are studies that you can easily Google showing the effects of hypoxia above 3100 meters (10,200 ft) in particular… OR, 10,200 may just be a number Forrest picked so that we could all wonder and speculate and try to implement mathematical/algorithmic predictions into a solve – all while he gets a good chuckle 🙂

          • Jake asked, “Now I have to ask the question why he chose 10,200′ & not 10,000′.”

            Because it’s under a peak that’s around 10,200 feet in height. His exact words were, “It’s below 10,200 feet.” I take that to mean, it sits below a 10,200 mountain peak. not that 10.2k is an upper limit. I know we’re looking fairly close to each other. Have you also discovered an unnamed 10,200 foot peak in your area?

          • Unnamed peaks, yes.
            @10,200′ elev exactly, no, pretty close though.
            Just looking at my area & the peak to the WNW which is less than a mile away has a ridge that’s 10,200 about 1500′ long, but then as you head West, it goes up to 10,600, This peak is not named to my knowledge.

  13. I believe that the chest is somewhere along Big Tesuque creek, below the Santa Fe Ski area. I mentioned this possibility on the Searching NM thread, with all the links and likely details.
    Disclaimer: much of the creek is difficult to access and unlikely place for an 80 year old man to go. But parts are accesible.

    • Yeah I looked at that a long time ago, because of them skiing there and it’s elevation of 10200 feet, but I couldn’t make the poem work anywhere there.

      • Just my thoughts on 10200 feet:

        Blaze Mountain has an elevation maker line on most maps to include Google maps at 10200 feet. I think FF knows that some of us will search out this place and see the 10200 feet elevation line and go searching here but since he said not to go climbing where an 80 year old man can’t go, this is just a small joke from him. FF said not to start with the Blaze because you will not find it….

    • Hi Michael. I have also been pondering Tesuque area. I have only been to Taos and Santa Fe proper….does the topography and landscape seem to fit?

  14. Jake— did Mr. Fenn make the statement that it’s below 10,200 feet or helow before or after he mentioned someone came within 200 feet of the treasure? Just curious.

    • “It’s below 10,200 feet.” – Fenn, “True West Magazine”, December 2013

      Earliest reference I could find on the “Searchers have come within about 200 feet.” comment is on Jenny Kile’s site, near the end of the Forrest Fenn Treasure Facts page, Dated May 2013. It’s like the last thing written in that post, and it’s also possible it was added later; Dal or Jenny might be able to pin it down better than me.

  15. Sorry Jake, bad post. What I meant to ask is if Forrest specified it was at 10,200 feet or below before, or after he had mentioned someone coming within 200 feet of the Treasure? I had never thought of the 200 feet in regards to altitude before. Interesting.

  16. IMHO Fenn went with 10,200 so it included Leadville Colorado (Elevation 10,152), Home of the unsinkable Molly Brown.

    • To Wendell,

      Yes, I think along those lines too. That is my selected area also. Between there and Colorado Springs. Molly and or Mary Brown.



    • By far, the best presentation we have seen yet. Good job Decall. I still haven’t read the whole thing. I just had to post something, very good Decall, congrats.

    • Thanks for sharing your solve Decall…good luck to you in the Post-Fenn era of your life. I suspect that you may return at some point, but who knows…you may have walked right on by.

      • I will stick this here cause no one reads my comments. Forrest didn’t say that people have walked within 200 feet. Searchers have been within 200 feet. My clue here also ties into Jake’s question about what exactly happens at 10,200 feet of altitude. Over

        • Lug,
          This is just one of the many quotes from Forrest “Yes, people have come pretty close, I know people have been within 200 ft because they told me exactly where they were.”
          Are you thinking they were on a horse, driving an ATV, car, etc….?

          • Jake – are his quotes after March 3, 2013? Before Jeremy tells me to go fly a kite I will tell you that what I am referring to here is within xxx feet while airborne. You know out of the airport he has flown out of himself. An airport notoriously difficult to depart from especially when you are taking off and climbing into the Angel Fire!

          • While I do often recommend the sport of kite flying, you’re all good Lugnutz 🙂

            I’m interested in hearing what you have to say.

    • Very nice Decall,
      LOL, You sure got a heck of an imagination & talent!

      Love that area.
      I was checking out the FUN page & am sending you 100 bucks, keep the penny.

    • Hi Decall — for what it’s worth, I believe you are in the correct state and in the right general area of Montana. You are also quite artistically talented and imaginative. Very nice presentation!

    • DecalI, I just got around to reading your solve… and am violently shaking my head yes and no at the same time! Such wonderful links and leaps! I marvel at your ability to keep your eye on the pea under Fenns fast moving cups. Really enjoyed it. Thank you.

  17. I will go ahead and make my I think the Chest is here post. I like this because it’s a little more free from without all the gotchas like on the other threads like HOB.

    For starters I think the Treasure and the Chest are living together in New Mexico. I will begin where the poem tells me to.

    Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in. To me this is the Forrest Fenn way of saying begin where the sidewalks end. If i said that you would head out of town. Same here get out beyond the warm waters and out to where the trout run in the cold waters. I am not the only one that believes FF is using terms that are unique to the fishing regs of new Mexico. The other states discuss Warm waters and other states discuss trout waters but only NM refers to trout waters as cold waters. In fact NM lists them out. You can feel free to go nutz reading about each spot listed as I have. Many people have been to most of the major spots.

    WWWH is to me an organic description and it’s not meant to nail down the start line for you. There is no X to stand on and begin.

    For me there is only New Mexico. I feel its presence. It calls to me.

    Home of Brown can be attributed to many places and things and I won’t go down that rat hole here. Instead i will discuss some new Mexico blazes.

    First the trails. There are two trails that were blazed to Sante Fe. One from Mexico in 1598 by Juan Onote – El Camino Real. One from Missouri by William Becknell in 1821 – Sante Fe Trail. You can go out to see remnants of the old trails and they get harder to find as the desert reclaims them. If you are searching North of Sante Fe you may spot the El Camino Real blaze. If you are in the Cimmaron or Morreno valley(s) you may spot the Sante Fe blaze. but why Wise?

    Also the Chama river Chama meaning blaze or flame ask someone local who speaks Portuguese. i read that locals north of Tesque Pueblo would refer to cmpfires at Chama as in look for the chama look for the blaze and you will find us. One might well imagine that FF has heard just such a colloquialism. Then of course on the Rio Chama there is the town of Chama.

    Angel Fire. So this is the the interesting one. Interesting because while referring to the same place we can see that the name mean cold water and also contains the mysterious Angel Fire or Fire of the Gods. Utes and apaches were impressed to the point of Religious adoration by the phenomenon as were the Franciscan monks that arrived in the 19th century. This is a ethereal glow behind the peak when viewed from the valley.

    How many times has Forrest Fenn taken off from Angel Fire airport and climbed over that peak? How many times has he seen the Fire of the Gods? Does he revere Angel Fire as the Apaches, Utes and Franciscans do?

    • I see some of your imagination blending with the scenery & the area.
      The logic with the warm waters in NM, I bought & sold many months ago.
      I would have to assume you live in NM.
      If WWWH has anything to do with a sidewalk, then I’m out & don’t want anything to do with it.
      Good luck with your solve Lug.
      I have no further comments on it.
      My sidewalk is ending here.

    • Lugnutz…IMO I think the Brown trout like the feeding most prevalent in the warm waters but prefer to return to the cold waters just upstream from the warm-cold transition zone. For further explanation look up the term “blue ribbon” as it refers to trout habitat. Then apply that knowledge to the area/state where you think WWWH is to validate or invalidate your guess. You may even find an exact GPS coordinate pair from a google search in a PDF file.

    • Lugnutz, you seem to be “jumping” from WWWH to the blaze,
      although you did briefly comment about Home of Brown. And
      good for you, paying attention to the capital “B” . . . I think
      that whoever ignores the capitalization does it at great peril.

      You didn’t mention “no place for the meek”, and other parts
      of the poem, so I don’t know where your solve takes you.

      The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

      Good luck to you. Please be safe.

      • This isn’t a solve it’s a post about where I think the chest is. I think it’s in New Mexico.

        I have a number of solves in New Mexico.

        I don’t believe B is capital because it’s a reference to a proper name. Specifically I don’t believe there is any person named Brown that had anything to do with it. It’s too simple and it doesn’t respect the man who wrote the poem.

        This is my opinion. Maybe it will turn out that I’m wrong and the whole thing is based on your simple idea. As soon as someone figures out which person named Brown is the correct one we need only find his or her home and there will be the treasure. Simply be the first of thousands to figure that out.

        • The above response by me seems a little negative so I will expound. Here are some of my thoughts about the items that many of you consider to be clues.

          WWWH means go to the cold waters trout waters
          HOB is larger than a person like home of the brave
          No place for the meek means you go through a space that is not large enough for a man mounted on a horse.
          Drawing nigh is a direction left or West
          Creek means creek and a creek is a tributary
          Heavy loads and water high is a spot on description of mountain creeks that run in the spring but then are relatively dry and rocky in summer
          Once you see the Blaze you will look down and find the TC. It’s not burried but obscured from sight

          • I am sorry, I disagree with almost every statement. 🙁

            wwwh not related to trout.

            hoB – Smaller than Home of the Brave – Not a person

            No place fort the meek – my guess is that it is about three acres

            When I am nearing the END I am going west.

            My creek does not dry up in summer. It peaks in June and subsides to a low in September/October, but still flows quite a bit.

            My definition of “Look quickly down” tells me where to look, not how to look to find the TC

            It is not buried, unless you think of a burial at sea – it is submerged.

            Try to STAY SAFE, and good luck – JDA

          • Hey JD

            I mean that Home is being used in a way other than as the proper name of a person and I believe we agree on that. I used home of the brave as an example of how Home is used when it doesn’t mean house. In my Ponce De Leon Springs solve, HOB is a church and B is capitalized because of who its the home of. Make sense?

            The springs of the type I referring to may or may not dry up. What I’m looking for is an area loaded with a lot if heavy rock during the more powerful run. That may have been earlier in the year OR it may have been a long time ago. Either way I am looking for a rocky area on a slope. Again I think we agree there.

            Nigh means left or west when one is orienteering and I have read and heard both. I believe that’s a direction in the poem and many believe it’s not.

            If anyone is interested there is an absolutely fascinating history of horses in relation to the word meek. Although I may be chasing that idea like chasing a rainbow I have a lot of fun with it. If you start looking for horse related language in the poem and book and then read about wild horses in New Mexico get ready to spend about 6 months on just that

            You and I also agree it’s not buried. It could be submerged but I would remind anyone that a 79 or 80 yr old man did the submerging and a now 80+ yr old man claims he can retrieve it.

          • Hi Lugnutz: since you were brave enough to offer up your poem interpretations, I’ll give you my counter-thoughts:

            > WWWH means go to the cold waters
            > trout waters

            I think WWWH has nothing to do with trout waters. You mentioned that all of your candidate solutions are in New Mexico, and I’m sure there are quite a few searchers who agree with you on that state. But I consider it to be the most unlikely state out of the four.

            > HOB is larger than a person like home
            > of the brave

            I think what you mean here is that Brown has nothing to do with a person named Brown. In that, I would agree. I think the answer to that clue will be more subtle or clever.

            > No place for the meek means you go
            > through a space that is not large
            > enough for a man mounted on a horse.

            That’s a possibility. But I’m not convinced that I will know what Forrest means here until I’m physically there.

            > Drawing nigh is a direction left or West

            Again, reasonable, but I don’t expect to know until I’m there. In fact, if the search clues turn out to be point-to-point, I don’t expect any clues to be solvable after home of Brown unless I’m on site.

            > Creek means creek and a creek is a
            > tributary

            I expect that creek will turn out to be an actual creek, whether dry or otherwise.

            > Heavy loads and water high is a spot
            > on description of mountain creeks that
            > run in the spring but then are relatively
            > dry and rocky in summer

            Could be, but I would be prepared for something more sneaky.

            > Once you see the Blaze you will look
            > down and find the TC. It’s not buried
            > but obscured from sight

            I agree with you on the not-buried. I expect it to be obscured by something relatively permanent — a rock, or a pile of rocks that blend into the natural surroundings.

          • Z –

            Yes I am with you when it comes to being there to see where the poem leads. I should say that I don’t necessarily agree with what many of us refer to as clues. As one example I don’t believe that Take it in the Canyon Down is a clue or direction. I attribute take it in to the previous line as I have mentioned. Sentences get broken up to fit the rythum or the rhyme.

            I have no idea whether or not some of my solves will include moving through a confined space.

            I am dedicated to New Mexico because various hint and clues in the poem and book lead me there. I should say I get real close to Colorado though!

  18. Why would any one post their solve here: seriously: I have read 100 posts; now dont get me wrong; Most are calculated by measures – most are hunched but dont’ show you where “warm waters halt” That is the “key word” warm… most solves do not follow the path of the poem. JMHO

    • Debi – you can feel free to tell everyone exactly where the treasure is according to your solve and no one will find it. There have been thousands of trips. This whole blog represents only a percentage of people who claim to be looking. One of my solves ends at Ponce De Leon hot springs outside of Taos. The treasure should be behind a large rock marked with a white cross just beyond the last pool where the water disappears into the earth. Look quickly down.

      If you find it we’ll split the loot after the auction.

      • Large rock: If you put an X on It I will share the photo; but no I am not going to Ponce De Leon; I don’t even know how to get there. LOL

      • I would not recommend sharing “too much” of your
        solve with other searchers. It’s kinda risky . . . like
        underestimating your opponent (in general).

        I believe that many folks who post here are doing it
        mostly for fun and for the social connection(s) with
        other people. I have no major problem with that.

        But I also believe that there are people who read
        these postings, learn from them, and thus advance
        their own respective solve(s). To a degree, I’m in
        that category.

        Good luck to all searchers. Please be safe.

        • Well you don’t have the treasure right? So your no closer than I or anyone else. You too should feel free to go to one of my TCs, maybe take care of the one south of Angel Fire airport.

          It’s the ones that don’t share that are taking a risk imo

          • Lugnutz, No TC in hand means no proof, of course. But to conclude that one
            searcher is not closer than another
            makes NO sense to me. Surely, it could
            be argued that someone searching in
            the appropriate state is closer than
            someone searching in one of the three
            other states. Of course, even the person
            currently searching in the appropriate
            state could be overtaken by someone
            who is now searching in the wrong state.
            Things can certainly change, and do.
            But someone, per FF, has been within
            a few hundred feet of the TC. Does that
            not seem “closer”, compared to someone
            who has just started the search yesterday?

            I’m afraid that many searchers will be
            not only disappointed that they were not
            successful in finding the TC, but they
            will also be whining that “it’s not fair,”
            thinking that THEY deserved to find it.
            In other words, the whole world should
            stop searching, except these poor,
            “entitled” searchers!

            If someone finds it before I do, I’ll be
            happy for them. And yes, I’ll be a bit
            disappointed that I didn’t get there
            first. I’ll blame it on my own laziness.
            And I won’t be angry at the finder.

            I think all searchers should be “good
            sports” about all this, and I am trying
            to be one myself, even if I sometimes
            appear arrogant (I admit I am!).

            The above is just my opinion.
            Yours may differ.

            Good luck to all searchers.
            Please be safe.

    • Debi, if you don’t want to contribute any information that is fine. But don’t try to stop others from posting their thoughts.

      That will get you nuked very quickly.

      • so if I share i won’t get nucked? What questions you do have to ask me? I am not stopping others to post.

        • Well lets see……..To stay on topic you would post where you thought the chest is. That’s not too hard to figure out.

        • Debi, he said the same thing to me when I said I do not share my location of the chest. I just don’t know how that translates to keeping others from posting?

          • You have to look at Goofy as like a bouncer at a club standing at the door throwing away fake ID’s. Its annoying for some, and irrelevant for most. But he still serves a purpose. You just have to be smart enough for him to leave you alone.

  19. “We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time”

    After years of searching, it’s only just dawned on me what Eliot’s words might mean in this context. If I’m right, these lines don’t mean the treasure is in the same place you start, nor even that you come full circle in some weird geometrical pattern, but they have a more fundamental meaning. I’ll leave it at that, but I do believe there is great relevance here.

    • Especially if (part of) WWWH were the ice age…

      That’s all I have to say about that…for now.

  20. Voxpops;

    I agree with you that the quote has a great deal of relevance. Where we disagree is what it means. When coupled with the following two quotes from Forrest…

    “Forrest has said “Here is what I would do. Read my book in a normal manner. Then read the poem over and over and over, slowly – thinking. Then read my book again, this time looking for subtle hints that will help solve the clues.” f

    Forrest had also once stated, “The person who finds the treasure will have studied the poem over and over, and thought, and analyzed and moved with confidence. Nothing about it will be accidental.”

    I… believe that the poem actually possesses a circular architecture.

    I think that “in the wood” (Stanza #6) leads you back to “in there” in stanza #1, and that this leads you to wwwh.

    I believe that there are at least four definitions to “in the wood”, and that these four definitions take you from a global view of where the TC is secreted to a finite, EXACT view of where the TC is secreted.

    This, of course is just my opinion, and others may disagree.

    I wish you luck Voxpops, you seem like an intelligent, thoughtful searcher.

    Please TRY to STAY SAFE.


  21. JD, I agree with you about the poem’s circular architecture – I just don’t think that translates directly into a similar physical movement. What I’ve noticed as my solution has evolved is that there are “thematic circularities.” But if my theory is correct, Forrest is also playing a game with this aspect of the poem as it relates to the Eliot quote.

    I also agree with you about the multiple levels – and not just for “in the wood.” It’s probably why no one has found the chest yet. Knowing how many levels exist and how to apply them is like playing 3D chess (I have enough trouble with the regular game!). After my recent search, I realized that I had omitted a level at a crucial point.

    Good luck to you, too JD, and to everyone who has boots on the ground.

    • Not sure that I understand the term, ““thematic circularities.”,, but I will work on it.

      Good Luck and TRY to STAY SAFE.


  22. Ok where do I really think the chest is? I really feel it is near Jellystone park. But not in the park. Why must I go? Because I am close and begin where warm waters halt. So outside the edge of the Caldera.

    • However……will this Caldera be here in a thousand years. Maybe No. Will a lot of things change anywhere in a thousand years. Most likely. Least likely for Jellystone Park…so….who knows? Not me

      • The Yellowstone hotspot isn’t going away, although it will move over the course of millions of years. It melted/exploded clean through the Rocky Mountains, creating the Snake River Plain. Check out a shaded relief map of Idaho, it’s mind blowing.

        Of course, if it decides to erupt, all bets are off, but one thousand years is a blink of the eye for a hotspot. I concur on the Caldera being where warm waters ARE.

  23. Hi everyone.

    Now this question can get me talking for hours….*smiles*…..but I will move to the end…..

    I think Indulgence is in Montana. I think it is also near the 45 parallel, but not in it.
    – too many, what seems like extraordinary memories of YNP and that region. It also is a region he knows BERY WELL. I wouldn’t be surprised to think he used a spot he alone only knows….like his “secret fishing hole”.

    I think it is hidden and not buried.
    – FF doesn’t like to bury things, BUT lives to unbury things. Granted he buried the bells and other brass trinkets…deeper than a metal detector to make those last. This buried for a long time.

    I think it is near a lake or creek that allows spawning fish to congregate and lay their eggs. Again secret fishing hole can be included with this.

    I think FF wants to go to his favorite fishing hole…..paraphrased: “people have come within 500 ft. (or 200 ft.), but didn’t know it was there.
    – this tells us a few things.
    – It could mean it is hidden from plain view. Understandable.
    – it is a place that is frequented by others so we know it is also on “public” land and deduce it is not on private land.
    – we know that it is near a trail or road or something man-made
    – and he Now sort of confirms it is not on a man-made trail, because people have been near it. “Off the beaten pass” seems to pop in my head with that quote.
    + FF is also a bit qwerky, or “off the beaten path” in many things he has done and still do.

    There….those are some “out of the box” thinking to get others involved and their mind thinking.

    We are all in this together.

    FF: “it’s not impossible, just difficult”….which means it is solvable.

    Good luck seekers of treasures where.


    • Tim, I think the same way about almost all that you said as well as what Joseph said above you. I will be searching in September and can’t wait to get there.

      • sounds like we’re going to have a microFennboree in Montana in September, (if Carolyn is the Carolyn I emailed nearly a year ago).

        • The one and only Joseph. When will you be there? We will be there the 5th through the 8th, but we have changed our plans and are now renting an RV (first time I have done this) and going to camp at the Madison Campground. If you are there near that during that time, lets meet up.

    • Decall,
      Thank you for your post, it was well crafted.
      I think many of us have come to use Hebgen lake to be HOB when we first begin. (I have also used beaver creek). The problem I ran into was that I never had an AH HA moment when I felt that had something concrete.

      Questions or comments;
      1. I expect the first stanza to narrow the area down where i would look for WWWH. Or maybe you need all 9 clues to find the starting point. In any case, i’m a bit cloudy on what the first stanza reveals to you. (i will read your solve again)
      2. I love the fact that you would have to swim to the final location. That would severely limit the area’s traffic. You probably wouldn’t stumble onto it. But swimming with a 20lb weight is not easy. Could he have floated it out there? Sure why not! Very interesting. (this would rule out his families hiding spot for their camping gear, wouldn’t it? )
      3. Did you ever make it out to the island? Is there ground cover, which you could stash the TC? I don’t believe its in the water. Mr Fenn would not throw his body onto the chest if that were so.
      4. My final stretch of my solve(s) from HOB is looking for a geological feature (chalk cliffs), you know of any in the area?

      Thank you for your post!
      Thank you for sharing!

      • Thanks Arca,
        1. Without River bathing is best and the cover of tftw we probably would have no idea wwwh. Dal changed his after taking pictures for the cover of tftw.
        2. Fine, call it swimming, but I just think it is symbolic of entering life with nothing material and in water, and exiting life with nothing material, and 6ft under (water). Water is much easier to bury 6 ft. under.
        3. This is my 3rd year checking the island and surrounding water. I was convinced I would see it on the island, but in the snow, you could walk right to it. Snowmobilers jump the island in winter.
        4. Lots of chalk type fault scarps. You can see many from Google Earth.

  24. You have clearly put a lot of work into your solve, decall. Much to be proud of!

    I believe that your efforts will assist many ‘a searcher now and in the future.

    Thank you and may God speed,


  25. Thanks Decall; the only issue I have with this is that there or no Pinion nuts (Pinyon Nuts) in this state. If you do an overlay of Pinion nuts range you will see that the North half of Fenn’s map is a no search area.

    I still believe it is up near Yellowstone but Mr. Fenn did say he could see Pinion nuts (Pinyon Nuts) from the treasure site. I have asked for clarification but did not receive an answer from Mr. Fenn.

    • Hey JD,

      I am be wrong. However, my recollection that quote is: “If I was standing where the treasure chest is, I’d see trees, I’d see mountains, I’d see animals. I’d smell wonderful smells of pine needles, or pinyon nuts, sagebrush—and I know the treasure chest is wet.”

      IMHO, this leaves the door open for pine needles (Ponderosa Pine) or Pinyon nuts. That would seem to leave the door for all 4 states.

      Semper Fi,

      Windy City

    • Hi JD – I too am known as JD here on this blog. I hope that other bloggers do not confuse us.

      After Forrest said that he smelled Pinon Nuts, he later retracted it, saying that he meant Pine needles. Sorry, I do not have the quote, but someone can probably direct you to it.

      I would not exclude Wyoming or Montana based on this misquote.

      Just my opinion.

      Welcome to the search, and good luck and TRY to STAY SAFE.



        • Thanks for finding it Goofy.

          Goofy – a question – how can we have two people using JD as their screen name?

          I changed mine from SculptorJDA to JD on the first fay I joined the blog, for ease of typing. Was I wrong? should I start using SculptorJDA? I hope not.


  26. I first heard about Fenn’s treasure on May 6th 2016.
    I became instantly enthralled and within 6 or 8 hours had my first ‘solve’ worked out.
    I don’t think any hardcore treasure hunter would blab their best solves on a blog or forum. It doesn’t make sense, unless they can’t visit the site themselves or have just given up.
    I’m preparing to embark on my 7th outing to the Rockies and have enjoyed every minute of the ‘Chase’.
    I (like so many others) think I have cracked some major clues and hope this next trip will unearth Indulgence.
    I thank Mr Fenn for showing me that adventure and new discoveries can still be had in the 21st Century;
    And that there’s a whole world that exists outside my cubicle.
    Good luck to all in your search.


    • @randawg72… If you don’t mind me asking, what state have you narrowed it down too?

    • Randawg, welcome to the search. I’d like to offer some
      friendly advice . . .

      Before putting “boots on the ground” to actually look for the
      treasure chest, it would be helpful to be confident that you
      have ALL the clues solved, or at least up to the part where
      the poem says “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,”
      or you’ll never find the TC (in my opinion). Of course,
      traveling to and through the Rocky Mountains in a motor
      vehicle, and also on foot, can be a very rewarding
      experience by itself, even if one doesn’t find the TC . . . and
      of course, most searchers won’t. Many have reported that
      the search experience was quite fun, interesting, and
      memorable — and these are very important, don’cha think?

      I have made one search trip so far, and have seen some
      GORGEOUS scenery. Some of it was truly breathtaking, and
      I expect to see more in my next attempt.

      The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

      Good luck. Safe hunting.

      • Hi Andrew Jef,

        You wrote to Randawg, “Before putting “boots on the ground” to actually look for the treasure chest, it would be helpful to be confident that you have ALL the clues solved, or at least up to the part where the poem says “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,” or you’ll never find the TC (in my opinion).”

        What if the first two or three clues get you to within a mile or two of the chest, but they are the only clues solvable from home?

        • It is my personal opinion that more than two or three clues can be solved at home. I agree that the blaze PROBABLY has to be solved on the ground, and that the remaining clues will fall into place from there. Just MY opinion. JDA

          • in response to Andrew Jef,

            I appreciate your advice, but I don’t believe it’s possible to solve all of the clues before heading out to search.
            I do feel that a certain amount of confidence in one’s solve is required before anyone should ever attempt traveling to their ‘search area’.

            I have found several new clues in my visits that would have been impossible from the comfort of my living room.

            In my opinion, if someone thinks they have nailed the first few clues, then they have to go to the site in person to solve the rest of the puzzle.


  27. Its my opinion that many of the solves I read about are way too vague. I believe Mr Fenn composed the poem in such a way that it will lead the person with the correct solve to a very exact location. With that in mind, this is the solve that I came up with. One thing to remember about the location of this solve. This is one of the premier fly-fishing locations in the USA. Montana Game Wardens are in the area regularly and I personally saw someone get a $450 fine. Please do not dig up this location or otherwise damage it. You won’t find anything of value here so leave the area as you find it.

    Based upon one of Mr Fenn’s stories about riding his bike to a bathing spot on the Firehole River that is where I decided the warm waters start. They halt where the Firehole empties into the Madison River. There you find Madison Canyon so follow it downstream. A healthy bike ride from the canyon leads to Hebgen Lake which is the Home of Yellowstone’s Brown Trout.

    Once you are below Hebgen dam its time to put your meekness aside and get in the river(the current is very fast here so stay very close to shore in the shallows) Knowing the end is drawing nigh tells me the clues going forward will be very specific and no paddle up your creek is telling you to move downstream. As you move downstream you will come across a very old US Geological Survey chair(a modern one is further downstream just before Cabin Creek) that is on a large cable that stretched across the river under very heavy load. A few dozen yards further downstream you will find a Gaging Station that measures how high the water is. Heavy load and water high!

    From this vantage point if you are wise you will look around and notice some islands still further downstream. The one on the left is in the shape of a blaze on a horses face. As you get to that island look quickly down(stream) and you will see a larger island. And what a marvelous site(gaze) it is when you notice two clumps of small pines(tarry scant). Once on that island you notice a dense thicket between those two clumps 0f small pines. Tucked in on the left side of the thicket hidden from the road you will find a layer of rocks about 12 inches around. Removing that layer of rock reveals a 10×10″x5″ vault formed by small boards on the bottom and sides.

    As a side note this area is at an elevation close to 6400 ft. The vault is 500′ from the blaze island and 200′ from the road. Since its on an island it can be considered wet.

    • Thank you for your write up. So i’m assuming you found the round layer of rocks and dug at this spot and didn’t find anything? What made you think that there is a “vault” formed by small boards?

    • Brady: “Mr Fenn composed the poem in such a way that it will lead the person with the correct solve to a very exact location.”

      I will agree with you 100% & will also add it should not take you hours of searching there. You should be able to find it rather quickly.

      • And you shouldn’t have to exert more effort than can be reasonably expected of a 79 or 80 year old man carrying 20 or more pounds of treasure.

        • Yes Lug,
          We always have to keep that in mind as well as all the other things.
          I think the window where the chest sits is smaller than most think.
          I see a lot of searchers ignoring the facts Forrest has stated.
          I am not one to ignore the man that told us:
          So hear me all and listen good,

    • I used to “ride” those “chairs” for a living, sometimes just a loop of rope fashioned into a bosun’s sling. Fun. But please do not mess with these things–they are not especially safe for the unfamiliar, and you may inadvertently put someone’s safety in jeapordy.

    • Brady, did you take pictures of this? If so, I think we might like
      to see them.

      Thank you for posting.

      Good luck in your future searching. Please be safe.

  28. I’m a Yellowstone believer as well….but a slight modification to those before. FF stated that his swimming hole was where a hot spring meets the cooler water of the Firehole river. This is where the warm waters halt. The question is, which hot spring, because there are 2-3 upstream before you get to the big daddy Old Faithful. The firehole does in fact flow down into a canyon, and for most of that run, there is a road that runs along side to cut some of the chase down….I mean, he may be telling us to enjoy the natural surroundings, but that doesn’t mean the clues are the methods he used to place the treasure in the spot. The house of Brown is still a puzzler…but I like the idea of “put in” meaning to stop or cease rather than actually get in or place….and with Brown being capitalized, our nature is to think surname, however, when using a species name rather than adjective, Brown can be capitalized…like Brown Bear. Note, while all grizzly bears are Brown bears, not all Brown bears are grizzlies, but to this effect, I’m thinking home of the Brown is a cave. So, move down the firehole, through the canyon, and stop at the cave.

    From there its no place for the meek….I struggle with wondering if this is one of the 9 clues or just a phrase. Under our typical understanding of meek, one would seem to think the next part takes some courage. Do we go in the cave? Is the next step fraught with peril? Something that may be a little dangerous? (But not so dangerous that a 79 year old man couldn’t drive past while he watched his 19 year old self adventure through) . The end is ever drawing nigh…I don’t think this is a real clue, just saying “you’re close man”. But either we’re going in the cave (which would have to have light in the daytime to fit one of his interviews) or moving past by means other than boat. Just heavy loads and waters high….I think this is the cascade waterfall….could be heavy loads of water or loads of boulders through which the water rushes.

    The blaze, probably the most contested item along with Brown…..I just don’t know because its one of those “you’ll know it when you are there and you see it” situations. A marker of some sort? Most likely. Is there a grove of aspens? Some would say a grouping of aspens at the right time can look like a thousand burning bushes…whatever it is, when we see it, we need to look down stat…but down gravitationally or directionally (as in South). To think about the latter, note that the Firehole flows north (is this correct?) towards its confluence with the Madison…which means after conquering a waterfall, that waterfall would then be to the south….I believe you are to look south at the waterfall….I think the box is behind a waterfall….wet, but not in water.

    • I will add, this solution carried out as instructed in the poem would be difficult for an 80 year old man…however, because each part of this solve runs parallel to a road (but not a trail), a 79 year old could very easily park, walk (i dunno) 200 to 500 ft (deliberate number) to the river, wade in, and put something in the waterfall. Remember, the poem was to get us off our asses to enjoy nature, he had already spent 70+ years enjoying it the way it was supposed to be

    • Syc-
      You’re thinking too hard..
      Not his swimming hole…his bathing spot was on the Firehole and we know exactly which spring he is talking about. He has told folks many times and there are stories about visiting it in this very blog…
      You should give your brain a break and read more and think less…save the thinking for when you have more facts…

  29. Hey JD and all,

    I missed FF recanting the Pinion nuts. Thanks for putting the link up for this. I put my pic up just for you JD so no one will get us confused. Sorry, it is my real name too so I will be keeping it. I will be heading from Georgia to Yellowstone on Sept 06 for two weeks; anyone is welcome to join me or at least meet me for lunch out there.

    By the way, someone had blogged about Mr. Brown (gold miner in Yellowstone) and his home. I read somewhere that they have not found his gold mine. There is a satellite over Yellowstone that measures movement of the ground. It has some cool technology on it. I have a friend that teaches MASINT (measurement intelligence) to government students and they used special imaging and located Mr. Brown’s true gold mine. The creek that is named after Mr. Brown is not the creek that the mine is on. The students were thrilled to be the first to discover this for over 100 years. The discovery was just last week and I will be taking the information out to the National Park Service in Yellowstone to verify it on the ground and maybe look for FF’s treasure while I am there.

    • Welcome aboard – Good luck on your upcoming search.

      Since you are not willing to use a different screen name, I guess that I will have to be the one to change – SO, I guess that from now on, I will be JDA – sorry folks

      TRY to STAY SAFE


      • I would have thought that seniority had earned the courtesy, but I guess those are bygones too. JDA it is.

      • Well JDA, you’ll always be ” JD ” in my book…. have a great day my friend….. see ya

        • Thanks Focused – Hope you are recovering well – I can’t wait to read your next poem

          TRY to heal quickly and STAY SAFE


    • JD, if you would like to meet up for dinner near or in Yellowstone, get my email from Dal and we will see if we can make that happen.

      • Carolyn

        I would love to meet anyone that is out there trying to find FF’s gift.

        I leave Georgia on 6th September. I will be in West Yellowstone no later than the 8th (thanks to audio books keeping me awake.)

        I will get with Dal for your email. See ya soon.

        • Excellent J. Our last night there is the 8th so we won’t have a lot of time to work with depending on time u get there. I look forward to meeting you.

    • JD
      I am interested in your research. I am a longtime searcher. If you are interested in exchanging some info about Mr. Brown feel free to email me. I have learned much about the man called “Uncle —“. And you are quite right; the creek named for him is not where he discovered his gold in 1866.

      I do not wish to correspond publicly. If you are interested email me at jd3479542@gmail. If not, no biggie and good luck.

      • Yes by all means don’t say any more publicly. You have cracked the code and soon you will have the treasure. It’s in the newly discovered lost gold mine of a man named Brown. If you say anything more we will all rush to the spot and claim the treasure before you get there.

        • Lugnutz,

          I laughed at your comment. It really brought a smile to my face. No secrets are held here. I am not smart enough to have secrets; I just know a lot of smart people and got them working on the Poem. We know FF didn’t hide the TC in the mine and Mr. Brown mining for gold in Yellowstone is no secret. The creek named after Mr. Brown is to the North west of the creek with the mine. Gold flakes show up in that creek from satellite imaging.

          It is little gold traces (small flakes) so not worth panning for. As for some of the post I have just reread off this string of blogs, I think many of us need to return to the “Box” as FF put it.

          “Nigh” means near and not a direction (IMO). If you find the place not for the “Meek” then you will be near the TC.

          People speculate on why FF was so precise on the 10200 feet; I think he (FF) knows people will look up and find Blaze Mountain. The elevation lines on Google show Blaze Mountain has an elevation line of 10200 feet. FF did say not to look for the Blaze first and not on a mountain peak but go where an 80 year old man can go.

          “Cold” is likely water.

          “Brown” is not a person.

          My thoughts on some of the words in the poem.

          Oh and this is for JDA; I meant no disrespect on taking a name that you already had on here. When I set my account up it was for a different site which I still communicate on and would really screw up my co-workers. That is why I included my picture so no one could confuse us. Please change your screen name back to “JD.” I am sure everyone on here knows your picture. ;^>

          • Oh, your liebockj now,
            I’ll agree Brock,
            “Cold” is likely water.”
            “Brown” is not a person.”
            Blaze mountain has nothing to do with his blaze.
            I look forward to knowing more about the gold mine…..

          • Everyone is getting to know JDA, so I guess that I will keep it, but thanks for the explanation and offer.

            I see that you are no longer JD, but Liebrock. Which ever you choose to keep – Keep-on-keepin’ on as my step-son would say.

            Take care, good luck in your search and TRY to STAY SAFE


          • Shoot, I’m just waiting for some noob that hasn’t read the blog, to sign on as “Seeker”……talk about a train wreck!!!! 🙂

          • Loco… I promise I won’t have a hissy fit…. I’ll just blame everything on the noobie

  30. Hopefully, someone can answer this. ..I’ve heard about poor Randy and Leo but recently read somewhere on this blog (can’t remember where,) that a young fellow from, I think, California was searching and something happened to him. Can anyone elaborate? What happened and where? Have there been any other problems with searchers searching alone? Thanks and stay safe, Everyone.

  31. I have reason to believe that the TC is not in a mine, a cave, or a well. I also
    believe that the TC is not under an overhang of rocks. Too much can happen
    in a thousand (or ten thousand) years, that would bury the TC, making it too hard to find. I think FF would be delighted if it’s found while he’s still alive. I
    don’t think it’s in a stream, river, lake, or under or behind a waterfall. The word
    “cold” in the poem was used to indicate physical temperature, in my opinion.

    I think the TC is just sitting on the ground, in a relatively open — and very
    scenic — location, but perhaps among some nearby trees . . . and perhaps covered with a slab of rock . . . a “tarry scant”.

    The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

    Good luck to all searchers. Please stay safe, and don’t go anywhere a
    family (including a ten-year-old child) wouldn’t go while looking for the TC.

    • Andrew,

      I am of the same opinion about the chest not being in a mine or cave; however my search group did find Mr. Browns lost real mine just a few weeks ago. It was cool to see students find a mine that no one else has seen since Mr. Brown last mined there.

      I also believe that when FF uses the word “cold” and has stated that the treasure would be wet, well one can only assume that you must go through water or in water to find the TC. I believe you must go into water to get to the spot. I don’t think the chest is in water. I don’t think it is behind a waterfall since every waterfall I find I go behind it. I would be able to stumble on to it.

      I also believe that it is just sitting on the ground with something covering it.

      I go on my first search trip on 6 September; wish me luck. If my group does find it then we will keep the Thrill of the Chase going by relocating it with a brand new poem.

      I have already started writing the poem and know right where I would place it. For all of you East Coast Thrill of the Chase fans, you will be in luck.

      • Mr. Liebrock

        I am the one who posted the comment that Lugnutz poked fun at. I am interested in your research about Mr. Brown mostly out of curiosity. I am not harboring secrets but I have uncovered much about this gentleman through serious research. And, of course, I know that TC is not in his mine or any other.

        In regards to the Chase, my interest in Mr. Brown is only about the location of his home, nothing else. And it is along those lines that I have learned information that I prefer not to disclose.

        Many other searchers have been looking in the same general area that I have and that it sounds like you ultimately will (if you haven’t already). I can only really tell you where TC isn’t.

        But I am fascinated to hear about your research of Brown’s prospecting. Over the course of my research I have developed an admiration for this gentleman so I am curious about any information on him that I don’t have.

        Here is something cool about him that you may or may not have uncovered yet. Following his death in 1913 the local paper published this tribute of Mr. Brown:

        “A gentleman of the old school; the blazer of trails, the hardy pioneer; the man inured to privation, hardship and suffering; the man without fear or favor, who tells you if he likes you or if he does not; the man who looks you squarely in the eyes, tells the truth in return; the exemplification of honesty, sincerity and frankness – a race disappearing with the advance of civilization as rapidly as the buffalo, and destined in a few years more to live as a remembrance and not as a reality.”

        Mr. Brown sounds to me like someone f would also admire. I had no nefarious intentions in mind with my inquiry about discussing Brown privately, just curiosity.

        And if Lugnutz still wants to make fun of me, fine. I have pretty thick skin. Good luck in your Chase (but not too much luck).

        • My dear fellow searcher I am not poking fun at you. I just want you to go look at the spot they we have already been to. There you will see what others have seen.

          Please come back to the blog and tell us what you found in the spot. Then tell us what you know that you think is new or just tell us now and then we can move on.

          As I mentioned this blog only represents a fraction of people searching. My favorite search story is about the party that arrives at the third waterfall in Cimarron river only to find two other search parties already there on the same day running the walls of the Canyon to fund the hidey hole!

          • Very cool of you to respond to my post. I appreciate the amity.

            As far as where I am searching, it is definitely not a new or unknown area to any serious searcher. Most of what I have uncovered is not new at all. In fact, I know other searchers have been looking in my search area for a year longer than I have. And while searching I have actually come across others that I suspect were searching.

            But there is one piece of information that I have that is likely not to be known by many others, perhaps by no one else. And this piece of information gives me more confidence in the area than searchers without this info would have. I know that before I uncovered this I was not nearly as intrigued by the location. And to use the words of another Forrest, “that’s all I have to say about that.”

            As far as what I’ve found, well, so far I’ve found one crudely carved blaze on an aspen tree that I’m sure had nothing to do with the Chase, I have found three horseshoes, a penny from 1928, an old beer can (the brand Lucky), shed antlers, lots of memories and bonding with those who have accompanied me . . . but no treasure chest yet.

            I agree that many searchers don’t participate on the blogs. I usually don’t but the subject of Mr. Leibrock’s research caught my attention.

            I can tell you that the one searcher on this site who makes me nervous (like I think he or she might actually find TC) is Slurbs, who I don’t know and with whom I have never corresponded.

            Happy treasure hunting and stay safe.

          • Blazer either go to the spot and don’t find the treasure, or just tell us the info you have and we’ll tell you who else had it previously.

            That’s all I’m saying.

            Whatever you do have fun and enjoy nature like Forrest did!

  32. Curious thought, all:

    Where in the poem does it say the chest itself is placed “in the wood”, so to speak?

  33. Jdiggins,
    As I read the poem, IMO the SEARCHER is “in the wood”.
    I conclude therefore that TC is in the wood, but that is a conclusion using “logic” rather than a fact.
    IMO, it is an important hint. (Otherwise the earlier line might have read, “…and listen well”.)
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

  34. I believe this will begin the path to the solve. 9 characters from the poem followed by 9 blank spaces. A stitch in time saves 9. You will have to determine how wide based on poem clues. The poem slithers like a snake back and forth. Punctuation marks serve as directions. The back and forth is altered by punctuation. For instance, punctuation will alter direction of the text but not direction of the flow. Upside down, backwards, switch backs…. It is all included. The next step kind of makes sense. You now have text surrounding, black spaces. The texts serves as Hieroglypics. You attempt to enter the mind of Fenn and read his own created language. He of course does not make it easy and it is fraught with tricks. There are several reference documents. The reference documents are historical or Fenn centric. The ones identified are obscure. You do not have to have them to solve. The clues twist and swirl within the empty blocks. The characters do not lay in a straight line. When you enter a correct message, A second message you did not see is revealed. It serves as a confirmation of your accuracy. It takes mental discipline to find the correct answer and not what you are just familiar with from your own life experience. Good luck- Lothar

  35. Btw this solve will give you a map of the search area and one of the coordinates- Lothar

  36. Lothar—–

    I have been here for about a month now, but I have to say that your post comes closest to the way I have been investigating the poem myself. Your post is quite intriguing to say the least. I do have one thing to share with you though—I ran into this just recently, as I had not thought of it before. And it is interesting, because of something you mention in your post. I had asked if there were any red herrings or intentional false clues in the poem. Jeremy on another thread (The nine clues) shared something Forrest had stated back in 2014:

    from Jeremy:

    For what it’s worth, he says that there isn’t.

    “Mr. Hall asks: ‘Are there any false clues/red herrings intentionally laid within the poem?’

    No sir Mr. Hall.”


    Now, at first I accepted this as a truth. But when I looked closer I began to wonder about this question/answer. Mr. Hall asks if there are any “intentional” red herrings or false clues in the poem. Forrest responds “No sir Mr. Hall”.

    Now, I am not an English major, so I could be very wrong about this. But shouldn’t there be a comma after the word “sir”? Is Forrest perhaps trying to say that punctuation could be a “red herring” or “false clue”?

    Since you are basing a lot of your investigation on punctuation leading you in the right direction, I thought I might bring that (as a kindly gesture) to your attention. Perhaps we are to ignore the punctuation altogether? I wonder.

    If you are interested in conversing about this a bit more leave your e-mail address and I will write you. I understand if you are reluctant to do so—it is very hard to share information without giving away the show. 🙂

    But Lothar, I really do believe you are on the right track. I have thought in the direction you are going, and have discovered exactly what you are saying (I’m not sure if you are well advanced on what I have discovered so far or not)—but you sound like you are looking at the poem the same way I am.

    Perhaps the above statement from Forrest is a direct confirmation of no red herrings in the poem. But if there should be punctuation—and knowing how smart Mr. Fenn is—his response to Mr. Hall may be saying exactly the opposite of what we think it is saying. The man is quite cunning indeed. 🙂

  37. Actually, I should not use the word “cunning”. What I mean is that the man is extremely intelligent with words–use of words, and non-use of words when necessary. He is a very honorable person, and did not mean to infer otherwise.

  38. By the way, my suspicions were confirmed. I looked at court transcripts where a lot of questions are asked of defendants.

    “No, sir, Mr. Hall” is the correct way that the sentence should have been punctuated. So, are there red herrings in the poem? I think so—and they may have to do with punctuation. 🙂

    • I have completed this step. It is remarkable and provides feedback along the way. There are intentional misdirects. You know you are the right track when upon completion of various blocks, your information reads back with an entirely different message. I’m on a new path as to the next step. There is a pattern to the solve and you cannot jump ahead… for the most part. My solve took 3 months even when I “understood” the solution. Imagination is indeed more important than knowledge but you must first believe you follow the right path to be successful.

      • I think this is an extremely important and worthwhile discussion. For me, the punctuation has been both confirmatory and confusing. In other words, it helped with one aspect of my solution, and almost derailed another part. In an email I sent to Forrest, I detailed how my interpretation of the punctuation clashed slightly, but significantly, with an earlier discovery (I think I was right the first time!).

        That said, used in another context, the punctuation can be quite helpful, IMO.

    • Sorry guys there’s no subterfuge……..It’s funny how the new guys always think the same things.

      Wash rinse repeat.

      • Goofy—- I’m not calling it “subterfuge”—red herrings are a real part of most treasure hunts. I would point out that the treasure has been out their for six years without being found. Is it possible that a large amount of people are being led in the wrong direction by adhering to punctuation, etc.? It’s very possible that is the case.

        Yes–I am a “new guy”, investigating every avenue towards solving the poem. I think it may be wrong to just say “there are no red herrings at all” without fully investigating it. Otherwise it’s “wash, rinse, and repeat” (notice the punctuation lol) for another six years.

        I appreciate the input though, and really like the blog—it’s very possible I am wrong, but just want to walk down every road. thanks

        • To Joe Sparrow,

          Keep on going with way you think. I am new here also and received the same advice and critiques as you. All well intended by the folks here. Be not swayed by their though projections. No one has found the treasure, therefore there are no experts on here. There is no factual justification from anyone on here to call themselves an expert. They have their way of thinking and analyzing the poem. Non of theirs is correct until proven otherwise. I have had 11 different ways of looking at this poem from all available information provided by the good folks on here and Forrest Fenn. No one here ( other than Forrest Fenn) is any more correct than any other.

          Keep on keeping an open perspective.


        • Joe, Fenn has made many comments about the poem not being misleading. Like many discoveries of mankind and life in general; once the solution is found everyone says WELL DUH!!!………In hindsight.

          The only subterfuge or red herrings are created in our minds not in the poem. This seems to happen when someone can’t make part of the poem fit their solution. So they make it fit. Like the folks that say the chest has been found or was never there to start with because it isn’t where they think it should be.

          One fellow had an elaborate solution and was adamant the blaze had been removed, and he could prove it with pictures. He posted the pictures and it became obvious he was hallucinating and creating something that simply wasn’t there. Come to find out his search location was well above 10,200 feet so it didn’t matter anyway. Then his only answer was the elevation statements were red herrings. But hey if you want to go down the red herring rabbit hole…….go for it.

          Research is your friend……..Good hunting.

        • If one pays attention to the things that those with experience have already been through along with the things that f has said, there are a number of roads that will not need to be traveled again. But there are those who will always insist otherwise believing that they are somehow unique and more clever in their ideas.

          Here is one comment that has been posted worth considering. I could provide ‘more than a few’ more of similar statements, but see it unnecessary at this point.

          … I have always said the poem will lead you to the treasure if you have the right map and know where to start. It is straight forward so there is no need to over-think it or look for commas and misspellings as clues. It was not written with the idea of fooling anyone. f

        • Thanks for that cross-post, JCM. I’m surprised how many searchers selectively ignore the advice that Forrest provides over and over, and instead read something into every capitalization (or lack thereof), or a missed comma as some secret clue. It reminds me of the scene from Life of Brian where Brian is trying to convince a hoard of followers that he’s not the Messiah:

          FOLLOWERS: Hail Messiah!

          BRIAN: I’m not the Messiah! Will you please listen? I am not the Messiah, do you understand?! Honestly!

          GIRL: Only the true Messiah denies His divinity.

          BRIAN: What?! Well, what sort of chance does that give me? All right! I am the Messiah!

          FOLLOWERS: He is! He is the Messiah!

          So even when Forrest insists there are no red herrings, no codes, no ciphers, no mysterious misspellings, there will always be those will exclaim, “Of COURSE he would say that! It’s just what you would say if you were trying to throw people off!” There’s just no helping such folks.

          • Good example Zap. I do not have the reference, but I think f has discussed around the point that he didn’t study how other game setters had designed their challenges, hunts, solutions, etc.. Many of the newbies (and some who have been around for a while) come in and apply the techniques (looking for things in pictures, playing with words, punctuation, ciphers, etc., etc. I won’t bother posting the quote on this one) used to solve other challenges thinking that those techniques will also work here.

            Simply put, in my opinion, those techniques don’t work here. This is a creation unique to f and will not be solved like any other hunt/challenge has been solved. This obviously leaves the door open to question whether this challenge is solvable at all. But considering that we know people have figured out two of the clues, maybe four, maybe even more at this point, it is probably only a matter of time, not a question of “if”.

            My expectation is that the person who solves this will do so by understanding some of the subtle hints in the book that will lead them to the first clue. Having that one figured out, and then adding a good detailed map to study the area, the other clues will begin to be answered. It won’t be obvious or easy to work through all the solutions to the nine clues, but will require a lot of thinking and probably several searches of the area for the person to put it all together. At that point, the person will wonder what took them so long because the solution really isn’t all that complicated, just tedious and difficult to work and think through.

            So I offer my best wishes to those who want to widen the freeways that so many have already traveled and proved lead to no-where.

          • AMEN!!!

            ” This is a creation unique to f and will not be solved like any other hunt/challenge has been solved. ”

            A voice in the wilderness…..

            thank you JCM and Seeker!!

          • Hi JCM — I think your Mindy example above is also a perfectly reasonable explanation for why the little girl from India (or boy from Waxahatchee, or Arab kid from Marrakech) can’t get closer than the first two clues. Jenny Kile’s question specified that the little girl only had the poem and “a map of the US Rocky Mountains.” A map of such a broad region might be enough to get you to the correct state, and perhaps even a river in that state, but it’ll never work for the detailed features that are well below that map’s resolution. Eventually you’re going to need a map that supports sub-mile navigation.

          • Zap—Though I agree with u somewhat, I think you need to reconsider what you said about Caps or missing commas when it comes to Forrest Fenn.

            I have been here a short time but clearly realize after reading several of his question/answers on Jenny’s site that Mr. Fenn is EXTREMELY careful how he writes things.

            It took him 15 years to write the poem remember— and he is very, very careful how he words things and spells things. He is a wordsmith.

            So you can ignore missed caps and commas all you’d like, but I will pay very, very close attention to what Forrest writes. There are clues in his specific wording, and phrasing.

            So again, though I see your point, I would be very careful about discounting an “error” when it could very possibly (and most likely) be a hint or clue Mr. Fenn is generously dispensing to us.


          • Hi Joe:

            “Zap—Though I agree with u somewhat, I think you need to reconsider what you said about Caps or missing commas when it comes to Forrest Fenn.”

            Well, I respectfully disagree. Using punctuation to either mislead searchers or encrypt secret information is not a technique I see Forrest using. The latter is steganography, and while I would not rule out the possibility that Forrest has used some stego in this hunt, I highly doubt it involves punctuation. But to each his own.

            “I have been here a short time but clearly realize after reading several of his question/answers on Jenny’s site that Mr. Fenn is EXTREMELY careful how he writes things.”

            Yes, he certainly is. But I don’t think his motivation is to provide additional clues.

            “So you can ignore missed caps and commas all you’d like, but I will pay very, very close attention to what Forrest writes. There are clues in his specific wording, and phrasing.”

            Well, if you’re paying such close attention to what Fenn writes, then can you tell me why you would ignore this e-mail reply to Mindy?

            “Mindy, I would never encourage you to ‘screw responsibility,’ as you say. I have encouraged everyone to get out in the mountains, but you should always think of your family first. Please don’t become obsessed with the search like some others. I have always said the poem will lead you to the treasure if you have the right map and know where to start. It is straight forward so there is no need to over-think it or look for commas and misspellings as clues. It was not written with the idea of fooling anyone.”

            You say he’s possibly using commas and misspellings as delivery mechanisms for clues. Fenn clearly says he isn’t. So either you believe him or you don’t. But if you don’t, then you can’t be selective about which of his statements you choose to believe are truthful.

          • Joe and Zap,

            I’ll let you gut debate what is a clue and what is useful or how after the facts work etc. But you both bring up good points in your arguments about commas.

            So I’d like to ask a question about the chest is here topic and those commas usages…

            Stanza 4 is a full sentences. it holds the most commas of any stanza and seems to say the chest is found at this time in the poem… I say seem, because its all ones own interpretation. The lines “look quickly down ,” followed by ” your quest to cease , ” then what appears to be another type of action ” but tarry scant with marvel gaze….”

            Give me the impression that “your quest to cease” is an add in, if you will. The use of the commas break a thought here, the way I see this written. What would each of you say if the lines read more like this… ” Look quickly down, but tarry scant with marvel gaze, your quest to cease.”
            Just your opinion on the reason for the placement of “your quest to cease” the comma usages, and is it possible that fenn wrote those lines using the commas and placements for a reason. I know I’m not English Professor… but I’m reminded the comment about; [ paraphrasing ] folks driving down the road looking for the blaze… but you can’t start in the middle of the poem….

            So basically how important do you guys think the commas in the poem are to understanding the possible “intent” of reading the poem… codes and ciphers aside?

          • Seeker, my take is that the commas in the poem are purely for grammatical clarity and/or poetic style (just as capitalizing the beginning of each line is simply poetic tradition). I strongly suspect there are shenanigans going on with the word choices (nobody writes “tarry scant with marvel gaze”) but I do not extend those suspicions to the punctuation.

  39. If you follow the punctuation and arrange the characters as described, you will have a 1200 character puzzle to solve and arrange. After filling out entirely, you find history and other details that just appear. For instance, the first block begins by filling in the phrase “And he tipped his hat and drew his cane”. Several months after filling in this phrase, I found this block contains one of the books published by Fibanacci. The Fibannci sequence is a commonly occurring pattern in nature and subsequently “life”. I believe this was the reason for the graveyard clue. The treasure is found in life and not a graveyard. I’ve given away some keys but I think the step after the 1200 may be the toughest one. Good luck

    • Lothar,


      You gotta brake it down a bit pardner, I’m just a redneck from Texas, just lost my job, got twelve yung-uns to feed, and my woman Lucille thought this would be a fine time to leave me.

      Only time I ever been around 1200 characters at once, was that time we all loaded up the truck and we moved to bever lee.

      If that’s what it takes to figger this thing out, then I should prolly jus stay at home and shoot marbles or something.

      Besides, the only blocks I ever heard of is the ones I got all my old cars settin on in the front yard.

    • Lothar—- Now you lost me– I am not looking at the poem in the way you are. I was interested in your comments about the punctuation “directing you” in some cases—-but it seems you have a different way of looking at the poem than I do.

      All the best though—-and good luck!

  40. Goofy and others— I really do appreciate the input. Thanks for your words too Shane. I am new to the chase so I am looking at the poem from every perspective possible. Perhaps, as mentioned above, I am comparing this challenge to others, and this one could be constructed much differently. All I can do is keep searching, experimenting, and using my mind.

    By the way Zap, “life of Brian” is hysterical. I still remember that part where the people are at the Sermon on the Mount, but they are too far back to here what is being said correctly. So this one guy says “What did he say? What did he say”
    and another says “I think he said ‘blessed are the cheesemarkers. But why should THEY be blessed?” Very funny stuff.

  41. JCM,

    Am I correct in assuming that you are saying that “. . . playing with words . . .” is a technique that will not “work here”?

    I see this all the time, someone comes on here with a proclamation of “We Should All Listen To What Fenn Has Said” , and during the course of that proclamation, “What Fenn Has Said”, is butchered by the one proclaiming.

    f has said himself that he Played With Those Words. Need I say more on that point?

    Furthermore . . . “we know people have figured out two of the clues . . .”

    No . We . Don’t .

    If you can show me ANYWHERE f has said Anyone has solved two clues, then I will readily eat all the pie you can muster up.

    “This obviously leaves the door open to question whether this challenge is solvable at all .”

    Seriously ??? I find it very curious that Anyone who is in this Chase would even utter such profound nonsense. If you think it’s possible that it can never be solved, then why bother?

    Why put any measure of stock into anything f has said, if you don’t believe that “nine clues, if followed precisely, will lead you to the treasure” ???

    So, are we still gonna talk about “freeways that so many have already travelled and proved lead to no-where” ?

    • “No one has given me the correct solve past the first two clues.f”

      Seems to strongly indicate that he had received the “correct solve” of the first two clues, but nothing past them.

      Of course, if you mess with the words it could mean anything??

      • locolobo,

        Exactly. “it could mean anything.”

        If no one has given him the correct solve on Any of the clues, then f can honestly say that no one has given him the correct solve past the first two clues.

        I’d like to see something where he says someone has Solved the first two clues. Or even the first one. I have not found that yet.

        To accept that anyone has solved even the first clue, flies in the face of f saying that you won’t know you have accurately solved it until you have the chest in hand.

        Therefore, I can surmise that No One has solved the first clue .

        • Also, if anyone accepts that the first two were solved and that if Forrest told us where HOB is we’d go right to the treasure then one should infer that HOB is NOT the second clue.

          Just saying

        • LOL!! Roll, see, I was correct about your interpretation!!! 🙂

          OK, I’m not gonna do your homewordk for ya so I’ll give you this one and let you keep on keepin’ on til you find it! 🙂


          4/17/13…Collected Works w/ preston & mcgarrity

          FF said @23:00 I know people have been within 500’…there are two different parties that have figured out the first 2 clues…correctly, and went past the treasure chest………

          Yes, they can tell Fenn what they think the solution to the clues are, and be correct. They just don’t know it….but he does!!!!! 🙂

          • That’s not good enough Loco!
            I demand Forrest come out & say someone solved the 1st two clues.
            Who the heck does he think he is using words like figured, indicate, mentioned, identified, solved this just doesn’t cut it for me.
            I personally want him to tell me that searchers have solved the first 2 clues.
            I deserve this respect & will be expecting an answer from him ASAP.
            Roll on towards the rabbit hole.

          • I’m laughing so hard here loco… it seems to me I recall a discussion about that same things… you, I, Colorkid, Scott, Charlie, I believe JCM or at least another J something, as well as others digging up all these first two clues comments and Q&A’s … in part, of knowing ‘searcher’ solved, mentioned, indicated, told of, where exactly they were… etc.

            It’s a nice attempt to help others that have not been around long enough to have gone through this a couple ~ hundred time ~ But alas, they’ll need to learn on there own…
            You’re correct.. they need to do the homework and decide for themselves.

          • loco,

            Thanks, “They just don’t know it . . . but he does.”

            figured out : communicated, conveyed, assumed, brought-up . . .

            “They just don’t know it” is precisely what f has said. That is also precisely what I am also saying. If you don’t know it then you ain’t solved squat.

            @ JAKE,

            I’ve not demanded anything of f . What I have done, is asked for clarity on this point, from fellow searchers.

            If I wanted to be treated like a red-headed step child in the third grade, I would have went to one of those seedy joints down the highway.

            I am somewhat perplexed, as this is somewhat out of character for you.

            It takes respect, to be respected.

            @ Seeker,

            “the knowing was ‘only’ on Fenn’s part . . .”


            I love pie, just make sure it contains all the ingredients before it’s served.

          • Roll,
            I am not sure how this conversation helps anyone get closer to the treasure.
            It appears you have a credibility issue with the architect.
            I am familiar with Nick Saban & like what he has done there but he very rarely gives out any pertinent information.
            This is how I see Forrest.
            Take it with a big grain of salt.

        • HA! That’s funny Loco. I’m starting to think Roll is related to the gal that insists the chest is in Texas.

          One more try:

          Mr. Fenn: In the past when you have said that several people had figured out the first two clues and then went right past the other clues, would you say that they got lucky and just happened to go to the correct starting area, not fully understanding the poem, or would you say that they did indeed solve the first two clues by understanding the poem and clues? C

          Searchers have routinely revealed where they think the treasure was hidden and walked me through the process that took them on that course. That’s how I know a few have identified the first two clues. Although others were at the starting point I think their arrival was an aberration and they were oblivious to its connection with the poem. Playing a hunch is not worth much in the search and those who start out by looking for the blaze, are wasting their time.f


          • Folks, there is plenty of Fenn quoting taking place. However, like the quote above from (7/1/14) some of the quotes are getting a bit dated…and at least deserve a reference date when they are posted. Not a criticism of the Honorable Judge Goofy but an observation that over 790 days have past – that is over 18,900 hours x tens of thousands of “searchers” and plenty of posts and emails that flowed since. Perhaps, bloggers dating the posts would give the most accurate perspective. I don’t think that he “owes” anybody an updated clues solved count. IMHO the quieter Mr. Fenn gets would tell us either that he -really- needs more rest, or it will -not- take nearly 1000 years to return the bracelet to it’s rightful owner.

      • And that was not the only time the word solve in relationship to the first clues was used… But now there a glitch… Solve; find an answer to, explanation for, or means of effectively dealing with (a problem or mystery).

        Doesn’t that imply ‘ find an answer ‘ to mean knowing?
        So I see Roll Tide’s point. But I’ll argue that those who were at the first two clues, didn’t know/solve… the knowing was ‘only’ on fenn’s part that they [ searchers ] were actually there…
        example; which could mean that only one of the clues is an actual place… while the other may be a need to know why ‘that’ place.

        Roll Tide, It’s very easy to read into the poem and the after the facts… it’s a whole other animal to think they are easy to completely understand. I have done it, Loco, JCM, and I dare say, we ‘all’ have… This imo is why Dal is very clear to have exact quotes… we each can see what we want, and do with it as we will… but you’re challenge “If you can show me ANYWHERE f has said Anyone has solved two clues, then I will readily eat all the pie you can muster up.”

        Well… the word ‘solved’ was used… the question remains, How does it help us to further ourselves? My example above is just a thought… but it still a plausible thought… and imo, that is what the after the fact comments do. They make us think. Well in theory anyways.

        Would you like that pie ala mode? lol.

          • Boy Jake, talk about Tomato Tamahto… Fenn did use the word solve in regards to the first two clues, and has used the word in many other comments… If you’re looking for which came first, you may have to wait for that group who discovered the chicken came before the egg. That answer only took a few hundred years or so.

            But just for fun…
            “When searching please don’t get target fixation or become obsessed with your solve to the point where you ignore these fundamental guidelines.”

            “If you can’t make two trips from your car to your solve in several hours, then don’t go.”

            Is Solve any difference to decipher in regards to clues?

            Decipher | Definition of Decipher by Merriam-Webster
            Simple Definition of decipher. : to find the meaning of (something that is difficult to read or understand)

            You’re over complicating again Jake… lol

          • No Seeker,
            I am not over complicating it, your friend Roll is.
            There is no difference in my mind between those words figured & solve.
            My point is that Mr Roll is fixated on the word SOLVE & wants the proper wordage so it can apparently help him with his solve.

            Unfortunately we know he wasn’t one of the parties, searchers that was involved after or before those statements were made.
            So, I cannot understand why it is so important to him even though he was not involved then.

            Does not help at all…….

          • Jake,
            Friend? lol …I use that word very cautiously. I don’t know Roll Tide at all.
            But back to he comment; you said: “When did Forrest say you have to SOLVE the clues?
            Who used the word SOLVE 1st?”

            Does it matter? fenn has used both decipher and solve in the same manner. the words meanings are interchangeable, depending on the context… yet the context has been the same… Talking about the clues / poem.

            The funny thing here is … many conversations about this exact subject has been going on for years… The only real help I see .. imo.. is it has kept the interest of the chase going strong and hard… that imo, is why so many keep asking about who’s closest, how many clues have been solved to date, and has created groups to give themselves nick-names… the 200 foot club, or the first two clues club. And all of us are still clueless.

            There are still many questions involving the first two clues and beyond … are both clues places? Are the seven remaining clues close by or miles apart? Do we need a boat or will swim suits be enough? Can a little three year old girl get to the chest if she’s helped by great grandma? Heck, forget about Little Indy, no passport no entry, right?… Yep, I’m sitting here laughing so hard, my stomach hurts.

          • Yup Seeker,
            I’m getting a good laugh myself.
            I am in the “still searching club” until mid Sept.
            I will probably not have any time off until 2018, that being said, whatever I say means nothing.
            Does not really matter if anyone has deciphered the first 2 clues or not.
            How does it help anyone?
            The discussion is dead.

          • Wow, let’s beat this topic down . Here you go Roll Tide,Jake, and whoever else:

            Hi Forrest,
            I saw an excerpt from your Oct 22 event at the bookstore where you mentioned again that the furthest people have gotten was only figuring out the first 2 clues. I had sent you an email after my 7th trip to Montana from Connecticut a few days before the event outlining my solution which led me xxxxxx where I planned to continue my search in the spring. Obviously if you said you know of only the first 2 clues being solved then all of the people who emailed you their solutions, including me, should start looking elsewhere. Before I give up my solution, I just wanted to confirm that you do in fact read every email even if you don’t respond.
            I read all emails unless they are too long, unsigned, or ask for an advantage or confirmation.

            Those who have solved the first two clues are not aware that they did, so I don’t see that as useful information for anyone. I will not comment on any solutions that are sent to me by email. Good luck sir. f

            He, being Forrest Fenn, said “solved”. This is acknowledgement that the first two clues have been “solved”. Does not matter if the searcher knew or not, Forrest said “SOLVED”.

    • How’s this for ff saying some have solved two clues, ROLL TIDE?…from MW.

      Update 12/31/2014- Forrest answered a question providing an end of 2014 summary for the hunt– He said again, “no one has given me the correct solve past the first two clues.”)

      • so it’s possible IMO that the first two clues plus other clues have been “solved” since this was more than 20 months ago and there have been discussions to the effect that it may be solved sooner than expected rather than later.

    • Roll Tide- please get you panties out of the twist they are in. Then go back and reread what I wrote without the attitude.

      You said :
      “I see this all the time, someone comes on here with a proclamation of “We Should All Listen To What Fenn Has Said” , and during the course of that proclamation, “What Fenn Has Said”, is butchered by the one proclaiming.”

      Then you said:
      “To accept that anyone has solved even the first clue, flies in the face of f saying that you won’t know you have accurately solved it until you have the chest in hand.”

      Really? Where did f say that which you so boldly proclaim?

      Not here.

      Q. Do expect that people will somehow *know* for sure once they have found the first clue?
      A. No, many people have found the first clue but they didn’t know it. Until someone finds the treasure they will not know for sure that they have discovered the first clue.
      Q. Or they might have found it without realizing it?
      A. Yes

      Correctly solving, deciphering, or figuring any of the clues out vs knowing that a person has them right are two different things; unfortunately you have mixed them into one and confused your understanding. Solving a clue is getting the clue correct (whether you know it with surety or not), not finding the treasure chest.

      “It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.” ~Mark Twain

      Q. Forrest, you have stated that several searchers correctly identified the first two clues in your poem. Could you tell us how many searchers to your knowledge have correctly identified the first clue correctly? Thanks. ~49 Dollars
      A. No 49, I cannot tell you how many searchers have identified the first clue correctly, but certainly more than several. I cannot imagine anyone finding the treasure without first identifying the starting point, although many seem to be preoccupied with later clues. To me that’s just expensive folly. f

      Nobody is going to happen upon that treasure chest, you’re gonna have to figure out the clues in the poem and go to it. There are several people that have deciphered the first two clues. I don’t think they knew it, because they walked right on past the treasure chest. And I’m not gonna tell those people who they are because one of them particularly would faint, I know. She’d tear the countryside up trying to figure out where they’d been… (8:20)

      Q. How many clues has someone cracked?
      A. I know they’ve cracked the first two, and went right past the treasure chest. Several people have done that. (38:10)

      I use a small f because I’m too lazy to hit the shift button. All of this cyberspace verbiage is conspicuous by the absence of talk about where warm waters halt. Several months ago some folks correctly mentioned the first two clues to me in an email and then they went right past the other seven, not knowing that they had been so close. Alas, and dame fortune, so often a fickle and seductive wench, never spun her wheel to lure them back.

      I have half at least a half dozen more where these came from. If you still can’t see that people have got at least the first two clues correct with these statements, then I probably can’t help you.

      • JCM — This just demonstrates what I wrote earlier with the Brian/Messiah example: there are those who choose to believe that everything Fenn says is sneaky, subterfuge, double-speak, etc. Pretty soon we’ll be down to Clintonesque debates about what the definition of “is” is. There is no point debating with such people; what’s odd is why anyone who thinks this way would pay any attention to Fenn’s comments. To me, the following (somewhat more recent) quote in Forrest Gets Mail #9 leaves little doubt that at least one clue has been solved by many searchers:

        “Are there signs that people are getting closer to solving your puzzle? How many clues have people solved now?” “Searchers have come within about 200 feet. Some may have solved the first four clues, but I am not certain.”

        The conspiracy theorist, logician or lawyer will point to this and say it is a non-statement. That “Some may have solved the first four clues” is mathematically equivalent to “it’s possible no one has solved any of the clues.” They ignore the context of the statement, and choose to believe that Forrest is being cleverly evasive. It seems to me that if Forrest didn’t want to answer, he’d just say something like, “I choose not to answer for fear of giving some searchers an advantage over others.”

        • Zap- absolutely right on the Clintonesque debates. I think that already happens to some extent on here.

          We will wait and see if Roll Tide is a man of his words.

          Roll said:

          ” Furthermore . . . “we know people have figured out two of the clues . . .”

          No . We . Don’t .

          If you can show me ANYWHERE f has said Anyone has solved two clues, then I will readily eat all the pie you can muster up ”

          Thanks to Charlie above for posting this one… I should have grabbed it from my collection:

          Those who have solved the first two clues are not aware that they did, so I don’t see that as useful information for anyone. I will not comment on any solutions that are sent to me by email. Good luck sir. f

          f said it as clear as can be.

          I find it funny to watch an accountant and engineer talk, both are good with numbers and are typically very smart, but they can barely understand one another. People need to sync their vocabulary with that of the chase or face the fact that they will repeatedly be misunderstood and create interesting conversations such as the one in this string.

      • JCM,

        Really ?

        I said : “you won’t know you have accurately solved it until you have the chest in hand.”

        You : “Really, where did f say that which you so boldly proclaim?”
        “Not here.”

        And then you give me THIS?, as a counter : “Until someone finds the treasure they will not know for sure that they have discovered the first clue.” (f)

        That kinda makes me want to shake my head yes and no, all at the same time.

        • charlie

          You da man, serve it up and I’ll eat it. That is what I wanted to see. sorta.

          Just like clockwork, f immediately follows with “are not aware that they did.”

          now what was I saying . . .

        • Your almost there RT… just one more step and you will have finally arrived.

          People have SOLVED / figured out / deciphered and then mentioned the first two clues correctly to f, which you initially surmised had not happened and were willing to eat the pie on.

          Now you are pulling in the other part that “they didn’t know that they were correct” as what you really meant.

          So you can get off your roller coaster ride any time you’d like when you are ready to join the rest of us that already know and agree that-

          1. People have correctly solved and identified at least the first two clues.
          2. Those who have correctly solved and identified the clues didn’t know that they had correctly solved them, but f did.
          3. It is not all that useful for those who correctly solved the first two clues to know that they were solved, because those people don’t know it was them.
          4. A person will not know that they are correct in their solves/solutions of the clues until they find the chest.

          It was 1. above that you were incorrect on; Accept it and move on. I think everyone else is done here, and now, so am I.

          • JCM,

            “the rest of us that already know . . .” kinda reminds me of a Mark Twain quote.

            And just because you “agree that” , shouldn’t forbid further examination of the subject matter.

            It matters to me.

            I’m looking for a Million-Dollar Treasure.

        • Hey Seeker,

          maybe you’ll get it. The whole point in bringing this up was to steer it towards your question of “what are we missing” at this location in the poem.

          Apparently, no one got that?

          “Until someone finds the treasure they will not know for sure that they have discovered the first clue.”

          That is huge, from where I set.

          That is a riddle in and of itself.

          • Roll Tide,
            I don’t think anyone is disagreeing with you that those searcher didn’t know, at least fenn didn’t believe they knew. Your comment started on the word ‘solve’ not being said. Lets put that a side, because the word doesn’t match the action.
            There was another comment mentioned that fenn stated if someone could get the first few clues the might be able to find the chest. [paraphrasing].

            Some think this might indicated the 3rd or later clue is very difficult and those searchers didn’t have that correct… hence, no chest. Plausible, but personally that is odd to me, because fenn has indicated the first clue is a must and clues get easier…

            From ‘my point’ of view… it’s not a matter if they knew, and more to the fact of why didn’t they know?
            I wouldn’t want to be in the club that brags… “I’m the member of the first two clues club” … I’d be basically say, I’m a dumba$$ for not knowing when it is right in from of me.

            How can someone not know? is a very basic and imo, important question to ask, not knowing they were at the first two clue AND pass the other seven along the way to, just again, pass the chest. A wrong turn doesn’t seem to be – to me – the problem.
            So if you want to discuss the thought of why, I’m more than happy to join in… if y’all want to argue semantics on the word solve… lol… been there done that, and it didn’t help me with understanding anything. I don’t care who was on first or what was on second… I want to know why the umpire called foul.

            A) The first clue[s] is/are not what most hope it/those to be.
            B) The clues might be closer than we think and most are looking too far ahead.
            C) Both the first and second clue are a must to know and are so closely related, and if seen as separate.. they just look like anything else normal.
            D) Fenn has only said he was old by searcher their solve and process they took… he never said if they started their process in the ‘correct location’ or even started with ‘the first two clues’… this could mean that… at some point in their process, they were at the first two clues.

            D~ makes more sense to me personally, because reading what we think are clues to what might be actual clues can misdirect anyone… than simply all those searchers making a wrong turn.

            Well those are a few of my thoughts… of WHY they may not have known… care to add any others?

          • Roll,

            “Until someone finds the treasure they will not know for sure that they have discovered the first clue.”

            “That is a riddle in and of itself.”

            Not really, just elemental logic. No one can be certain that they have solved any clue without the treasure in hand because that’s the only proof that will stand up. There are a lot of people that claim they have solved this clue or that clue and claim to have “confirmers” but it’s all speculation until you have the prize. But as has been pointed out here by others, Fenn knows the clues and so he can say with certainty whether one or two have been solved.

            You can read here everyday about people that just “knew” they had it all figured out. Unfortunately, IMO, the winner here will have to rely solely on their own confidence and go out to test their theory. I don’t think there will be any real certainty beforehand…..only certainty in the form of self confidence as you quietly walk to the chest.

          • Colokid,

            What is it about the be “certain beforehand” comment?

            Personally, I think the idea of understanding what is presented to us is the certainty fenn might be implying. Not to know all the answers prior or what it is in the field to be known of exactly… but more to the what it is we need to know of, before heading out. No hunches, no guessing, no all I need is the first clue to follow the others when I get there process.

            Another words… know what the poem is telling us… with certainty we have the reading correct. So I have to ask… how can that be truly accomplished with 9 lines out 24 as many searchers have listed as “the clues”?

            I’m still trying to get a grasp on, won’t know the first clue until you found the chest [ i agree with your comment in the logical sense ] but we have Q&A’s with folks having the poem, the item with all the information to find the chest, have been told the one would be certain beforehand, told the book is the reference to guide the average person, suggested knowledge of geography might help, and the use of maps[s] [ i’ll add “good” map and /or “right” map, as fenn has used both words, and even a detailed map ] as useful tools.

            The only thing that I can consider to be “certain of”… is the knowing beforehand of how fenn intended the poem to be read. I mean, some have been at the first two clues that fenn knows ‘are’ the clues… yet no one else did know them as the first two clues… is it because we don’t understand the poem correctly to even know what is or is not an actual clue?

            This is the most perplexing part… it seems we can be looking at a clue and not even know it’s a clue… even if we think wwwh is the first clue or in the wood is the first clue or anywhere in between… that says to me, we don’t know a clue if it hit us in the face… so to speak. And yes, I’m talking about the general concept of how many blogger have stated they read the poem.

            Are we just simply missing a clue or two…or… are we missing what the poem is actually telling us. Logically, I can’t see any other reason for those many, several searchers not to know an actual clue on site, even if it’s slightly out of order. It may not lead us to the chest without all the clues used, but we should at least know a clue when at it, and being in the right location… that is the missing beforehand dilemma for me.

          • Seeker,

            You have “certainly” asked a lot of pertinent questions but as usual I probably can’t answer them.

            But let’s go back to being “certain” for a moment. He uses this word a lot.

            We all know that Fenn uses words in odd ways and makes up his own words. Here’s my favorite:
            From Jenny’s Six Q’s: ,“What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve.”

            Uncertain knowledge? That seems an odd use of certain.

            And then the all time favorite:
            ” I warned the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” (Flap on map in Too Far to Walk)

            “Certainty of the location”….what location….location of the chest, location of the “path”, location of the starting point, location of the state to search, location of the first clue. As usual this is ambiguous and non-specific though all most everyone wants it to mean location of the chest. And, what does “certainty” mean in this context….certainty of your solution, certainty of how to read the poem, certainty of some information/idea, self-confidence?

            I’ve said this before but it probably bears repeating. IMO searchers put too much emphasis on individual statements when they should be looking at the totality of what he says….kind of average out the meaning from several separate comments. I think this is the only way to see what he’s driving at. When you focus on a single individual statement and try to build a solution or chain of logic around it, I believe you could be headed for disappointment.

          • Colokid

            Definitely need to read all the comments in attempting to understand anything. And that was my point… at times fenn states we should have some certainty beforehand, and at times says, will will not know the first clue until the chest is found. At first light these seem to contradict each other, so my point was can they both be completely true [ adding in all the quote… first two clues other seven, path warning, 200′ chest etc.] That the reason for not knowing a clue when one is at it [ first two clue[s]] on location, is because of an incorrect method of reading the poem, and not just missing a clue?

            example; reverse engineering… sure you can [ reverse engineer back to wwwh ] if you know what hoB means, but why would you want to.

            So if those searcher left the first clue[s] as most thing is wwwh… continued and discovered any other clue… in this case hoB. wouldn’t hind-sight [ reverse engineering ] tell those searcher what wwwh was, even if they didn’t know at first?

            And yes, i get the notion of having all the ingredients need to get the job done right… lol.. but apparently if one as hoB or possibly another later clue [ as many have listed their order of clues ] Why is it we wouldn’t know what any clue could have been [ in this case the first clue ] with out the chest. Logically that is a sound judgement. but again fenn said if you knew hoB [ I’m adding later clue ] why would you want to reverse back.

            Fenn was also asked which clue he would like to have if he was a searcher… the reply was the last clue. which seems to say, if we know any clue we should be able to go on from that point and/or reverse engineer to the first clue.

            Note; last clue is a clue, not the hide, unless the hide is somehow a clue to find the chest within the hidey spot.

            Man! this dissecting/analyzing/ thinking/planning/ using logic to know beforehand is giving me an aneurysm.

          • Seeker…like your clarity in this post…https://dalneitzel.com/2016/08/12/i-think-the-chest-is-here_03/#comment-153110
            In my opinion and considering my solve,,,having some certainty of the area beforehand involves knowing the altitude range of the TC and evaluating the potential animal paths (like spokes in a wheel) to several sites above the minimum so that the timing of the solve can be managed in a few hours after arriving at the precise beginning point. If you can swim, you won’t need any special tools to get your mits on the TC. Getting it home might be another story. If this path certainty is not considered beforehand, it might take days or weeks of careful hunting to stumble upon the TC from the starting point.

  42. seabee88,

    That don’t cut it either. “correctly mentioned” does not indicate “Solved” to me.

    I can mention ” E=MC squared” to you. That doesn’t mean I know it or understand it.

    • At least you’re admitting that knowing something and understanding something is equivalent…that’s progress.

    • Seeker,

      ” I think the idea of understanding what is presented to us is the certainty fenn might be implying.”

      And I think that you are correct. Thus, my quest for the word “solved”. If he said it, I wanted to see it.

      Before I posed that challenge, I was working with these words : decoded, figured, guessed, illustrated, secret, analyzed, cracked, deciphered, detected, discovered, found, identified, interpreted, passed, and Clarified.

      Without the word “solved”, my little string-theory wouldn’t work. Why?

      Because “solved” ties all of those words together. All of those words are synonymous with solved. The only way I can pull all of those words together is by using solved as a starting point.

      The searches who were there, did not “understand” solved.

      I hold to the idea of “in the wood” being the final clue. And no, I don’t count clues. So, if “in the wood” is indeed the final clue, then those words tell you that you have Solved it, because this is where you are given title.

      Another word that is synonymous with solved : knotty point.

  43. Let me do something real quick here to illustrate the depth of research and knowledge for anyone newish to the chase.

    Anyone who thinks that either Ranger Brown or Rachel brown of Taos are the Brown homes we are looking for should consider that everyone considers those in the first month they are researching along with other easy Browns like Brown county Co. If any of those were it we’d of found it. That’s IMO.

    To show how deep Brown research goes I will give the newbies one that they won’t find for a year. Ragland Hill, Quay County, New Mexico. George M Brown requested a PO box to be named after himself for his settlement at Quay, 5.5 miles SW of Ragland. The PO box never operated and today nothing remains of the settlement but it is of course the home of Brown just not our home of Brown because it it is 100% without a doubt outside the search area as defined by Forrest Fenn. Not in Rocky Mountains north of Sante Fe

  44. Also, someone made a mistake earlier and I’m not sure who. Forrest only says the TC is below 10200 and that doesn’t mean that HOB or WWWH are below 10200. one could be at 13,141 and be looking down canyon at HOB

    Jake – has he ever said all the clues or HOB is below 10200? Do you have the exact quote. You’re good with his stuff.

    • Nulgutz,
      It’s out there somewhere.
      I would suspect that he was talking about the treasure being below 10,200′.
      All the clues could be at any elevation to my estimation.

      • It could also be a population of less that 10,200 feet. You can twist the words a bit to give you a definite answer either way. This is how Fenn thinks.

        • That aint no twist Hammer.
          You eliminated the word “elevation” & replaced it with “population”.
          If this is how Forrest thinks, then I don’t have a chance.

          If you have a solve Hammer, you would be better served to post it here so people can help you & save you a wasted trip. Then again it may be what you like.

      • Jake
        I went through my 3 years of files and “no where” can I find that f has said that the “whole” in it’s entire is below 10,200′. That’s a very good catch by Lugnuts. Great, just great, talk about throwing a monkey wrench into the pile. Well, I might as well start checking out locations for wwwh and possibly hoB above 10200.

        • Right? I begin higher and take the Canyon Down to below 10k and then put in.

          FF didn’t start with park the car and begin your hike buy that’s what many of us our doing. In the Rockies we may well be getting out of a car above 10,200 feet.

          Heck Angel Fire airport sits at 9500 as does that whole valley.

        • The “whole” what Tim?
          Do you mean the 9 clues?
          I do find it difficult for there to be warm waters at that elevation (10,200′) unless your relieving yourself. If we do consider WWWH to be a clue.

    • He also never said your quest has to start in the area highlighted on the map. For example, the great basin “could” be WWWH.

      • LOL Arca… who said WWWh is the start? Sorry just having a lot of laughs today… figure I keep it going.
        But yes, The highlighted map is, so far, only known to hold the chests’ location… clues are up in the air still.

      • I do not recall that comment. I do recall that Mr. Fenn has stated that the TC hidden is within the area on the map. I do not know of a statement from Mr. Fenn that the quest has to start within the boundaries of the map. Just my recollection.

  45. @Jake,

    “That’s not good enough Loco!
    I demand Forrest come out & say someone solved the 1st two clues.”

    Dammit man, I just spit my after-dinner bourbon all over me and laptop….and it was the good stuff!!!!

    ROTFLMAO!!! Good one Jocko and can’t believe Roll T didn’t get it. Oh well, lead ’em to water and all that………

    Oh well, dotta clean laptop and freshen the drink, then to see what else you guys figgered out while I was dining..

    dam, still laughin’…….that was best in a while!!!! 🙂 🙂

  46. Let me help you guys here which is something you haven’t thought about…Don’t get hung up on the first two clues and or been within two hundred feet…solve the poem!

    Could it be that the first two clues were found outside of the poem however refer to parts within the poem so therefore those people went right passed the rest of the poem?

    And to separate that from being close to the treasure, FF said whoever was close didn’t even know which could mean just about anybody. Doesn’t mean they were in search of the treasure but in a place they might have thought FF was interested in and sent him pictures.

    The first time FF made the statement about someone being in close proximity was in 2010 so shortly after he “hid” the treasure. Those pictures I believe are on the internet. I’ve also seen a video where “she” walked right passed he spot I think the treasure lies. Once you get on the right track, it is pretty much straight forward….

    And again for personal reasons I am not just ready to return to the area but I will be soon. If you are young and healthy you could probably handle the trip but if not you will have to train….FF advantage is he knew where he was hiding this treasure and he put it out there a distance. I think he said the person would earn it. So not only are you going “too far to walk”, you will have to search around which could add to your distance, and then carry 40 + pounds out of there where he has gone alone!

    Folks work on your history and I might see you out there…Good luck!

    • Missouri Jon, Have you read all the quotes fenn has stated about this? Have you been reading the blogs with searchers posting many times, those quotes?
      You said;
      “Could it be that the first two clues were found outside of the poem however refer to parts within the poem so therefore those people went right passed the rest of the poem?
      And to separate that from being close to the treasure, FF said whoever was close didn’t even know which could mean just about anybody. Doesn’t mean they were in search of the treasure but in a place they might have thought FF was interested in and sent him pictures.”

      Fenn has stated, those at the first two clue were “searchers”, the same searcher who explained in detail there actions and solves to him, and that is how he knows… the same searchers who walked by the other seven clues and the chest… that is how he knows, It was not some tourist who came across the clues “outside the poem” This is no longer speculation, but actual information from fenn’s statements.

      So when you say; “Let me help you guys here which is something you haven’t thought about…”
      Maybe a little more investigation work on your part would be a nice. So “Once you get on the right track, it is pretty much straight forward….”

      Hope that helps.

      • Ha you are funny Seeker! You have great enthusiasm and I am not going to knock your tactics, not my style…I never said they were tourist …oh they were seekers.. in regards to the first two clues and passing right by the other clues…If you go back to the articles and live interviews, FF says different things at different times. Not saying they are not true but could mislead if you don’t pay close attention to what he says. I don’t think it is the same person as “they were within 500-200 ft.” Although if the seeker made it to the second clue, he would have been within that range.

        So what I am stating is that by seeing the constant chatter about the two that they are getting blended together.

        So lets say the 200 ft. is in a common place, however no trail leading to it, then that has no bearing really.

        And because FF states first two clues, it does not mean in the order of the first two clues of the poem.

        I will repeat what i just said….because FF states the first two clues, it does not mean in the order of the first two clues of the poem…

        You know what I am going to back track just a little…only if the seeker pinpoints the second clue in the poem down to the exact foot, then I can see that but I just don’t believe so…And what I mean by that is that I don’t believe that clue is that close….

        Now the two outside of the poem are very close together and I did not realize it until i figured out the rest of the clues…

        I wish you had a clue we could discuss? The reason I am making this argument because it helped me and because I was caught up in the same process, it cost me a trip where I could have been more productive towards my resolution.

        So my advise is proceed as if FF never mentioned it.

    • Missouri,

      You said: “If you are young and healthy you could probably handle the trip but if not you will have to train….FF advantage is he knew where he was hiding this treasure and he put it out there a distance.”

      I suspect you are wrong. Consider this:

      Mysterious Writings 10/13/2014
      Hi Forrest,
      You once said you walked the 92 miles from West Yellowstone to Bozeman to just experience it. Obviously you were much younger than you were when you hid the treasure. Too far to walk means different things at different ages so I was wondering if you would be so bold as to give an estimate of how far you walked to hide the treasure after leaving your car: was it >10miles, between 5 and 10 miles, between 1 and 5 miles, or less than 1 mile? ~Thanks, Ron

      Ron, your question sounds like a travelogue, but I’ll answer it. No, I don’t want to be that bold. But I will say that I walked less than a few miles if that will help. I just looked “few” up and one definition is “scant.” Why do I sound like I’m talking in circles? f

      If a fella has to “train” for “less than a few miles”, my bet is he is way off course or horribly out of shape. And, since the distance is short, why not carry it out in pieces like F?

      • Colokid- I would add to your statement on what it takes physically to get to the chest location and the biggest clue of all the f has given out-

        Q. Have you been back to the site since hiding the chest?
        A. No, but I could go if I wanted to, even at 85. One of my clues is that it’s above 5,000 feet and below 10,200 feet. I said that because people were climbing up to the tops of mountains. The biggest clue of all is: Don’t look for the treasure any place where an 80-year-old man could not have taken it. That eliminates half the places where people are looking.

        • LOL!! So good to see you playing again, JCM!! 🙂

          In total agreement with your post.

          Also, and it goes along with your example, two months earlier he had given this:

          “If you know precisely where it is you can probably retrieve it in any weather”

          @ http://mysteriouswritings.com/weekly-words-from-forrest-dec-11th-2015/

          Many at the time believed it was extremely contradictory, but it too eliminates half, if not more, of the places where people are looking.

          If Goofy thinks about what Fenn is saying here, he could tell you, in most instances, what Fenn has eliminated!! 🙂

          A lot of searchers, if they think about it, are definitely searching in the wrong places.

          Can you see it???

        • He has also made the statement if I was in condition to make it back….”You have to earn it”! “The person who finds it will have earned it”! No place for the meek!…

          JCM have you solved the first clue? I’m curious and I am not being ignorant…ignorance..: the state or fact of being ignorant : lack of knowledge, education, or awareness

          So are you aware of where you are going?

        • Missouri Jon: “earning it” doesn’t necessarily mean physical exertion. I think Forrest meant that the person who finds the chest will have earned it in the sense that he/she didn’t just accidentally stumble upon it. You will have to have put in the hundreds (thousands?) of hours of brainpower and geographical research in order to correctly interpret his poem. Fenn’s statement “My guess is that the person who is successful will very quietly solve the clues and walk to the treasure with a smile on their face” doesn’t sound like an arduous journey to me. It’s a mental challenge, not a particularly physical one. He said he could do it at age 85 — retrieving the chest in practically any weather.

  47. RE: Solve/Certainty… Waded thru a lot above, skipped some & just thought I’d point out before I uncross my eyes that ff said somewhere (paraphrased) … it doesn’t matter what words I use, as long as the reader knows what I mean.

      • Not technology or IT platforms… I was Old Shadows when the game started, then Old Shadows2 on another site, then the gods of brevity told me to shrink.

        • Cool. I’m an old time OS/2 (operating system) guy. Not something you see very often these days.

          • I don’t even know what an OS2 operating system is, but I remember my husband plotting trajectories for the Eagle to land on the Moon in Fortran. Precious boxes of punch cards at Cape Canaveral in the 60’s.

  48. I love reading everyones solutions and ideas. I live in Montana but Im willing to drive anywhere that I find a solution to the poem that meets all the criteria without too far of a stretch in its meaning. I do believe that when the final solution is brought to light that everyone will slap their foreheads and say “why didnt I think of that!?”, not “huh?”
    I believe this treasure map was laid out in a format for the average man. Which is a good thing because Im pretty partial to my averageness. I have only found 2 locations in 2 years that I feel meet all 9 clues in a realist fennish manner. One is revealed in my story posted a year ago, the 2nd is still to be explored. Best of Luck to everyone!!! Oh and am I the only one that thinks starting your solve at wwwh is a huge mistake?

    • Leza,

      No, you are not the only one . . .

      I use the whole poem. Clue #1, for me, is in stanza 1.

      • I agree. Something in Stanza #6 points to “in there” in stanza #1, and then on to the remaining stanzas – or so I believe. JDA

        • As I have gone alone in there
          If you are brave and in the wood
          If you’ve been wise
          Who’s I?
          Who’s you?
          Who has been wise and brave and in the wood? Who is the poem describing? Forrest Fenn? Maybe not.

          • Although i’ve been trying to find more meaning in stanza one, that is exactly what what stanza one told me a month into the chase.

    • Hi Leza & ROLL TIDE — there is ambiguity in what Fenn (or others, for that matter) mean by starting point, first, begin, etc. Most searchers do not believe that WWWH is the first clue that you encounter as you read the poem normally. For those who *do* believe that WWWH is the very first clue when reading the poem top to bottom, they clearly think there are no clues to be found in the first stanza. Seems risky to toss 1/6th of the poem as “filler” or “background information only”, but plenty do.

      So when Fenn wrote, “I cannot tell you how many searchers have identified the first clue correctly, but certainly more than several” it is not clear to me whether he means “first clue” reading the poem top-down, “first clue” as far as being a physical starting point, or perhaps some other interpretation. If you don’t believe the poem clues are of a point-to-point nature, then it seems to me that “first clue” most likely means “as you read the poem”. Now Forrest has said that you do need to figure out where warm waters halt, but I don’t believe he has ever said that’s the first clue. Whatever the correct interpretation is, I’ve got at least one clue in the first stanza, which when combined with the answer to WWWH gives me a starting point.

    • Leza, there is a yes and a no to that statement. I believe f has said to start at WWWH, but I’m going from memory that is at work, so don’t drill me on that one. As far as the clue thing goes, Seeker would tell you that has been beat to the ground. I see three levels to the poem to be solved. So you could say I have two clues in the first stanza. But, when I map my route and see the path I must take, it starts at WWWH. So, as far as the “path” one takes, the first clue would be WWWH. Does that make sense, hope so.

      Each line in the poem can be solved, I’m sure you’ve heard plenty of times, “solve the poem”. If your solve does not have WWWH as the first clue then it’s all good. He did say “begin at the beginning”, now if that is with the word begin, or the first line, who knows. The only real “clue” that is important is the last one. That’s the one that has to be not in very close proximity to a human trail.

      To try to figure out what a clue is or a hint will drive you crazy and in circles. Solve the whole poem not trying to find the clues, the poem will answer all questions in the end. Just like him not knowing there are 9 clues until he was done with the poem, you should not see the 9 clues until you are done with the poem. So, where at in Montana?:) Could save me $1000.00. Do you own horses, I’m generous:)… good luck.

      • charlie ,

        ” Solve the whole poem not trying to find the clues . . .”

        That is how I work with the poem. I have a complete solve that I have tested with five BOTG (to no avail thus far), and to this day, I still don’t know how many “clues” I have worked.

        I refuse to count clues, as I feel it is a distraction. I try to understand what the poem is saying as a whole. Not segmented.

        To me, one clue flows into the other, it is all fluid. No need for me to disect the poem.

        With the exception of what I see in stanza one. To me, stanza one sorta comes across as the “legend” of the poem “map”.

        • I agree that counting the clues is certainly a distraction. My focus is finding a location that meets the criteria laid out by the poem in its entirety

          • Liza, since we agree on stanza one… I wonder if you think, as I do, that when ff started writing the book, he may have tried to put clues into the stories, but they became too controlling, confounding or corrupting to the stories he wanted to tell, so he switched to inserting a more sparse but direct poem of clues. I find very strong innuendos floating, or weirdly anchored, in some of the childhood stories … but not so much in the latter chapters. OS2

          • I think it will inevitably be one of those “hindsite is 20/20” that will slap us all in the face when it’s found. We will see it all clearly and simply and wonder what the heck we were thinking and how we didnt see it so plainly in front of our faces

          • Leza, I’m confident you are right. It won’t be “hard” … it will be “unconventional” or “unexpected”. For instance, can you figure out the pattern in the following number series?

            8, 5, 4, 9, 1, 7, 6, 3, 2, 0

            It is not hard — a child can solve it — but an adult probably has a more difficult time.

        • Roll,
          You have been told there are 9 clues.
          Why would you not want to count them?
          If you do not count them as you go then you may end up stuffing many lines into what you think is one clue but may be many.
          I don’t see how anyone could ignore the obvious IMO.

          • Jake –

            Roll, Charlie and Leza just told you NOT to count clues. You can add me to that list.

            It’s a diversion……15/85

            Don’t count………..

          • Here’s another way to look at it.
            When you read the poem, how many lines, phrases, do you have a ? mark for?
            When I read it,
            I don’t know WWWH is.
            I don’t know what canyon down.
            I don’t know where HOB is.
            Where is no place for the meek?
            Where is the end ever drawing nigh?
            What creek is your creek?
            What is heavy loads?
            What & where is water high?
            What is the blaze.

            I have an answer to all the other words in the poem.
            You just need to figure out what needs to be & find out those answers.
            When you realize it’s straightforward, you will have an edge.

            Go ahead and ask any questions about all the other words & I will give you a logical answer some day.

          • The reality is that the 9 clues may very well include every line in the poem. There is no way to know what ends one clue and begins another until you have successfully uncovered the final resting place. There is no way to know that you have in fact uncovered a single clue in its entirety so counting it as a complete solve may indeed mean that you are missing part of it. On the other hand we all know that Forrest is the king of double entendre. What if one clue is in all actuality is two separate clues…in that case you may miss another one entirely. I think the point is that once you have a completed solve, knowing you have a minimum of 9 clues may indeed be a way for you to finalize your solution before you set out on your trek, but limiting your solutions to 9 or counting as you go can definately be a distraction. Just my opinion

          • Forrest was asked about the nine clues, and he said something to the effect that he worked on the poem, and at the end there were nine clues, and that that number had remained fairly much the same during the creation process.

            The fact that he was able to “segment” the poem into nine sections – thus being able to see that there were in-fact nine clues, tells us that we too can break the poem down into nine distinct sections or clues…or so logic tells me. Use the entire poem. To me, break the poem into its logical nine sentences and you wind up with nine clues. One sentence may include more than one “element”, but the combined elements = one clue.

            Just my opinion – JDA

          • JD, Zap, & all,
            JD: “The fact that he was able to “segment” the poem into nine sections”
            Don’t tell me you have fallen into the 9 periods at the end of the segments including the ?.

            You can throw punctuation & caps out the window when it comes to a poem.
            There is only one punctuation that makes sense 😉

            It is not logical to think the whole poem has to be used for all the clues, this is an assumption.

            Take a good look at this poem http://laptoptrek.com/images/color_code_poem.jpg
            & it’s color coding & you will realize that Forrest refers to himself alone in the 1st stanza & the 5th stanza ONLY.

            He refers to you in the 2nd, 3rd & 4th stanza alone ONLY.

            He refers to you & him ONLY in the final stanza.

            Do you see a structure here?

            This also feeds into the things you need to figure out in the green.

          • Hi Jake — there’s a missing green highlight in the fifth stanza for the “all” on the second line. So that stanza isn’t technically only about Fenn.

          • You’re right Zap,
            Thanks for that, but doesn’t change stanzas 2, 3 & 4 as being green.
            I look at stanza 2 as you.

            So we have:

          • Jake – YUP – YUP, I am in the nine sentences = nine clues camp, and always have been, and doubt that I will change.

            Happy hunting Jake, and Best of luck to you in Sept.


          • well, to be honest – for the first three weeks of “solving” I was in your camp – Trash stanza’s 1, 5 and 6, they are only helpful info – no clues. Clues are only in middle three stanza’s. Then logic showed it’s nasty head and convinced me that I needed to use ALL of the poem. Time will tell which strategy is correct.


          • Hi Jake,

            You wrote, in support of the importance of counting clues:

            “When I read it,
            I don’t know WWWH is.
            I don’t know what canyon down.
            I don’t know where HOB is.
            Where is no place for the meek?
            Where is the end ever drawing nigh?
            What creek is your creek?
            What is heavy loads?
            What & where is water high?
            What is the blaze.

            I have an answer to all the other words in the poem.”

            Okay, so those are your 9 questions. But is a question a clue? And was there a reason you excluded the following as questions/clues?

            I don’t know where “alone in there” is.
            How far is “not far, but too far to walk”?
            What is it that is “cold” about exerting my efforts?
            What does it mean to be “wise and in the wood”?

          • Zap,
            Alone in there is where he hid the treasure & there is no descrip (unlike the other clues we need to figure) in this line to indicate it is a clue.
            Not far, but too far too walk is straight forward.
            Cold is what it is, if you do not know what cold is, then I cannot help you here.
            Wise is also what it is. In the wood is also what it is. Your in the wood….
            I cannot help anyone if they think it’s something other than what it is.
            These are self explanatory unlike the canyon, the HOB, your creek, etc….

          • Hi Jake,

            Well, like my “hard biscuit” bet with E.C., perhaps I should pose a fun wager with you. The stakes are probably not important because I doubt either of us will be willing to admit defeat until the chest is found. Perhaps a bottle of Grapette would be apropos!

            > Alone in there is where he hid the
            > treasure & there is no descrip (unlike
            > the other clues we need to figure) in
            > this line to indicate it is a clue.

            And yet, I say 100% this first stanza (or more specifically, a portion of it) is a definite, specific, actionable clue.

            > Not far, but too far too walk is straight
            > forward.

            Well, 10,000 miles is too far to walk, and for some people 1 mile is too far to walk. You say it’s straight-forward; I say it’s vague — perhaps intentionally so. But I’ll leave this point out of the wager.

            > Cold is what it is, if you do not know
            > what cold is, then I cannot help you
            > here.

            Cold is relative. Molten lead is cold compared to the surface of the sun. You obviously have something specific in mind for what you believe is cold, and I think from your past posts you have indicated that it means you will have to get in (cold) water at some point. I’ll roll the dice and wager you are wrong: that the chest is neither submerged, nor will you ever have to wade through water yourself to get to the chest. Any wetness acquired during retrieval will be incidental: rain, perhaps wet shoes from walking on wet ground/rocks, etc.

            > Wise is also what it is.

            I bet it will be a location clue, and not just a tip of the hat to the searcher’s wisdom.

            > In the wood is also what it is. Your in
            > the wood….

            Again, I’ll play the contrarian and say that “in the wood” will turn out to be something other than acknowledgement that you’ve been in the forest/woods. I think it will be another location clue.

            So there you have it: my friendly (probably-unresolvable-any-time-soon) wager proposal to you. Do you need to make any modifications to it?

          • Zap,
            You can pick just one of your choice & yes I think the only thing cold in the Rocky’s even when it’s 90 deg out will be water.
            Your choice, we will probably never know.

            I will bet the seven JD owes me.
            Doesn’t matter anyway, this is all in fun to me.
            But, I will have to say you are in the right state but not of mind.

            I am still waiting for the hard amusement biscuit.
            EC where are you!

            Just remember cold is relative to humans that made that term.

          • Or you know sometimes when two words rhyme you figure which is the important word and which is just the rhyme

          • 10-4 Jake, let’s go with the cold water wager since that one is pretty unambiguous and likely to be the most devisive amongst others who post here regularly. JD will be on your side (I know, strange bed partners, huh?), so I see this as a fun way to build bridges with people who otherwise disagree on everything Fenn. (grin)

          • Zap you said, in reference to Jake’s comment…NFNTFTW.
            “Well, 10,000 miles is too far to walk, and for some people 1 mile is too far to walk. You say it’s straight-forward; I say it’s vague — perhaps intentionally so. But I’ll leave this point out of the wager.”

            Is it vague or simply usable in another way, than measurable distance?
            Distance in time is usable, but not necessarily need to be measure.
            Distance of travel by something else and not a searcher, while possibly measurable, is it needed or just known of?

            If we only see it as a distance of measurement, it seems we need other factors to be known of, or we force an answer on to it.
            Example some have use but too far to walk as… 242. That is a big force fit in my book for anything really.
            Some used the book tftw as the clue of 10 miles. I see this as a force fit as the book wasn’t around at the start… adding a clue such as this, would say the original information was not fully known or usable.

            Another person [ who “I’ll” remain nameless ] thought far as, right side, to be.. not one right, but two rights to walk. So I guess if you are on the correct path… two right should lead to hoB. even then distance is not needed to be known, just make the next right turns.
            There ya go walkers… you’re welcome.

          • Hi Seeker — regarding NFBTFTW, I think the whole point of this clue is for Fenn to indicate that you aren’t walking yet — you are driving (or using some other form of conveyance). You don’t know how far you will be going (though probably less than 20 miles), but you know it’s far enough that you won’t be walking it.

            You asked, “Is it vague or simply usable in another way, than measurable distance? Distance in time is usable, but not necessarily need to be measure.
            Distance of travel by something else and not a searcher, while possibly measurable, is it needed or just known of?”

            I’m unclear as to what you’re asking. But whether it’s distance in miles or distance in hours or minutes seems irrelevant since in neither case is the poem providing units or an amount. You are “taking it” in the canyon down; maybe he doesn’t have to tell you how far (or how long) because it is unambiguous. If “down” refers to a change in altitude, you can’t go “down” forever. If it refers to traveling south, likewise. Or perhaps by putting you on the right path, you will unavoidably go by the put-in for home of Brown (though perhaps this is where searchers fail and drive right past it).

            But you’re not point-to-point, so none of this is going to be satisfactory to you.

    • JDA ,

      The biggest problem I have with that is, I don’t recall f saying that he segmented it and saw nine clues.

      For all I know, f looked at it after completion and said ” yep, that looks like a good clue . . . yea, there’s another one . . . that sounds like a couple there . . .”

      • What you just described, I would call segmenting – breaking it down into individual parts – There’s a clue (segment #1) – There’s the next clue (segment #2 etc. JDA

    • Zap,

      I’m in for a bag of fritos and a Dr. Pepper.
      No water.

      I don’t think you’ll ever get your feet wet.

      • ROLL TIDE: I wonder how many searchers who believe Indulgence is underwater would feel differently if just two words were replaced in the poem:

        As I have gone alone [out] there


        Your effort will be worth the [scold]

        I’m not saying these are reasonable word replacements — I’m suggesting that without “in” and “cold”, the number of searchers donning wetsuits would probably plummet (no pun intended).

  49. Seeker, there is no reply button on you comment to Colokid at 9:41 am, so I am responding here.

    You going around in circles on this. You are assuming that a person can know, or knows, what or where the blaze is w/o finding the TC. No one will know if their interpretation (solve) of the poem is correct until they have found the TC. If as you say a searcher that has solved the first two clues (in their mind) goes on to solve or find the blaze (in their mind) why can’t he be sure of wwwh? The searcher that thinks they have found the blaze CAN also reverse engineer to where they think wwwh, but because the searcher has not completed the quest and found the TC they can’t be sure if what they have found (solved), up until this point, is correct or not.

    Many searchers have been at this stage of the quest. Only Forrest would know if the searcher was correct (if of course, the searcher had told Forrest). The problem is that they can’t be sure of any of the steps along the way to the TC, but they can feel confident, however confident does not mean they are sure, or are correct.

    One can only follow their intuition and analytical skills up until the end and hope that they are correct. It’s like looking at a piece of puzzle and trying to figure out where it goes in the big picture, you won’t know until you get to that point when you have enough information to place it in the right spot, or the spot that you think it will fit, but until you actually place it there you won’t know for sure. That is like the big picture puzzle we all are trying to figure out. When you have the last clue figured out, like the last piece of the puzzle, you can see the big picture. That is why I think Forrest said he would like the last clue.

    Forrest has always said that the searchers that have figured out the first two clues didn’t know for sure that they did, and that no one is going to know if they have the correct solution to the poem until they find the TC. Many are getting confused as to what Forrest has said, but you can be sure that Forrest is correct that no one will know for sure until they find it.

    • Ritt ~ yous said, “You are assuming that a person can know, or knows, what or where the blaze is w/o finding the TC. ”

      I think you read my post wrong or I didn’t explain it well enough… I mean, those who were at the first two clues… because fenn knows they were at the location… didn’t know they had the first two clues. How in the world can some not know they were at the correct location and not know ‘any’ of the clues? Think about it.

      Scenario, {fact 1} Sally, Dick, and Jane are at the “correct” location.
      {fact 2} They tell fenn in detail, there process of there solve.
      {fact 3} They walk pass the other seven clues.
      {fact 4} fenn knows exactly where they are/were and what clues they indicated…

      Sally, Dick, and Jane live and breathe the poem… Yet even when they are in the correct location of all the clues, went passed all the clues and they didn’t know / couldn’t figure out a single one. These “few” ~ “several” ~ “many” ~ “more arriving” active searchers on site, the correct location, clues in hand, But seemingly it was impossible for them to see what was in-front of their eye. What does that tell you?

      You said: “If as you say a searcher that has solved the first two clues (in their mind) goes on to solve or find the blaze (in their mind) why can’t he be sure of wwwh?”

      I never said, “in their minds” I’m repeating what fenn has stated, they were at those clues location[s]. But just like your analogy of a jigsaw puzzle… there is common sense and information of what the out come should be… Blue for sky, green for grass, brick for building etc… and just like the poem we have that information. What does that tell you?

      Logically the most common element for “many” searcher to misunderstand “all the clues” when they are present at the “correct location” is… reading the poem wrong. Can I say for sure they all had the same method or reading the poem… No. But it seems much more logical, than all of those searchers being stupid. They didn’t know the clues [again at the correct site] because they didn’t understand what a clue truly is…imo.

      Fenn has said, more arrive at the first two clue, and didn’t know because the may have got there by ‘aberrations’…{ fenn’s definition; Something different} And even those searchers didn’t understand the significance of where they were. I mean, how confusing can waters halt, and canyon be??
      Of course if they are not the first clues, I can see the screw-ups.

  50. My biggest struggle right now is deciphering the last few clues as to the actual resting place of the chest once youve wisely found the blaze. Im certain that “tarry” and “scant”, along with “marvel gaze” and “wood” and “cold”are my trigger words but I have yet to untangle their meaning. I hate to drive 8 hours to Colorado…only to stand there in the trees dumbfounded as to where to go next after finding my starting point and following the first 7 clues.

    • To Leza,

      I have 2 areas in mind and one of them is in Colorado also. I am just an arm chair Canadian in Alberta passively interested in this treasure hunt . You probably wouldn’t want to say your area of search interest but where I think in Colorado, is the Colorado Springs area. The only part of the poem that stumps me for this area is HOB. Probably because I would have to be here to figure that out. But I can fit the rest of the poem to the area. I hope you do find it in Colorado so I can at least smile about it.

    • Hi Leza,
      For “tarry scant” I’m in the blackish slab of stone club, don’t know if you’ve given that any thought

          • There is water in nearly every search area that I have explored although in the rockies you dont have to be near any water at all to be wet. Experience in these mountains leads me to believe that the chest is certainly not “in” a stream or creek because spring runoff is such that the water will displace 2 ton boulders so a 42 or 44lb box wouldnt stand a chance. Forrest wants the treasure to be found in its entirety so the finder has the sense of awe he described when they open the lid, so altho it may be susceptible to the elements I do believe he did what he could to choose a location where it would remain intact. The only exception would be a lake or spring head where the flow remained a constant.

            In addition I believe a creek would offer a path to folllow that is not neccessarily a human path. Creeks and rivers have served as a beacon for travelers for as long as the mountains have been travelled.

          • I have researched a ton of locations in Montana but honestly cant find one that isnt too much of a stretch other than the one we also searched in Yellowstone. My next endeavor is to Colorado. I am very picky about my locations. If I am not able to exact a location with the clues, with the exception of the last 1 or 2 that pinpoint the resting place, I dont go. I was so confident in my my solution for my trek in Yellowstone it has set the bar very high for my future expeditions. It has taken me a year to find another spot that I feel is as strong a contender as my first. I will certainly be glad to give you any feedback on any areas in the state as far as terrain etc, as I am an avid traveller and rockhound. We are out in the mountains every weekend but its only a fenn hunt if I find a hot trail.

          • Most of my arm chair research has been in Gallatin National Forrest.
            I finally came up with a solve that brings me to the Madison’s.
            My staging area will be at Cinnamon Lodge & head up to Taylor Fork & take another look around Taylor Creek hopefully on the 14th & 15th.
            I notice it’s getting a little chilly there…..

          • Leza;

            I agree, and disagree. I agree that it could be in a lake (or small pool). The criteria is that it be placid year-round. I recently searched an area near the base of a waterfall, and the waters were ALWAYS too deep, and/or too swift. I have moved upstream 1/4 mile to a “Beautiful Placid Little Pool” nestled in a grove of pines. It is here, that I hope to FINALLY find the treasure.

            By moving to this new location, I hope that it will, at last, quell the conversations about whether or not I felt that Forrest was “Nudging” me with his posts. I may have thought that he was, but since the TC was NOT in the location where I THOUGHT that he might be nudging me, it HAD to be my imagination. Sorry if I upset anyone by my over active imagination.

            I have not sent Forrest emails since he said that he needed to take a break. Since he has sent several weeks of posts to Jenny, there can be nothing in the upcoming posts that in any way I can interpret as being directed at me.

            I hope that this brings to a close any thoughts that I felt that I was somehow “special”. I certainly am not, and have never thought that I was.

            Good luck to ALL searchers, and TRY to STAY SAFE, and Forrest – Please regain your strength.


          • Leza,

            You said you researched a ton of places in one state and now are looking in anther state.

            This sounds like a process of elimination… looking for a possibility and not how the poem directs you.

            Some others will wish you luck, tell you great job, blow the fluffinnutter well wishes… but as a person who is attempting to solve this challenge, just like you, I have to ask a serious question.
            .. is this simply throwing darts until an area in a 2000 mile stretch possibilities hoping for something to match the clues up with?

            I’m not downing… I’m confused why this approach.

          • Its certainly not a decision ive made willy nilly. I follow the clues wherever they take me. I live in Montana so I have scoured the map trying to find areas that I feel meet all my criteria and unfortunately they just havent been there. Id much rather just drive down the road. Like I said. I felt my first solve was pretty meticulous and I came away empty handed so the bar is fairly high as to what I consider a viable location. Colorado just happens to be the location that Ive found that matches the criteria. Ive found some that were close in Montana, New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming….but I focus my energies on the one that makes me say “its gotta be there!” Not just the hunches.

        • Aha! Apache tears. A shame that Arizona and Utah aren’t in the running any more, but I’m sure obsidian can be found in the remaining 4 states. All you need is past volcanism.

          • JDA,
            In re: to you feeling that ff was pushing hints your way, I think you actually may be right on the money. But not in the way you think!
            I think Forrest may be having fun with searchers and you are not the first one to be ” hooked”.
            I’m good at spotting patterns and I know some of the search areas really well from growing up nearby. I noticed ” mistakes” in some things f was posting and then would read solves later that had to do with that area. Then I looked back at when f posted and the timing was awfully coincidental. Then I noticed another time he did it in a different way.
            It seems he’s doing it to searchers who are very bright and their solves make a lot of sense so maybe he’s trying to invest them more in their current line of thinking so they don’t figure out the correct line of thinking? Of course this is all IMO so who knows?
            I don’t follow discussions on the blog very closely and don’t comment much
            but I saw your comment and had to say something.
            So it could be that you are not imagining things and are special. Maybe f thinks you have what it takes!
            Just a different perspective to think about.
            WY Girl
            P. S. Dang now that I’ve shared that you might figure it out before me and beat me to the chest

          • I know what you mean! I received an email from fenn after emailing him a story of one of my solves. His response was “keep searching, youre one of the good ones”

            I pondered on that line for way too long! Was I good because I was close or good because he liked my writing? Im good either way but it certainly makes your head spin!

          • WY Girl;

            How refreshing to read your post. I would hope that you are right, but only time will tell.

            The road to my present location has not been without it’s ups and downs. I have been “SO SURE”, only to be disappointed. When that has happened in the past I have taken a DEEP breath, re-evaluated, and moved on. That is what I am doing now. And I AM
            EXCITED! I am NOT forcing the poem to match my spot, because I didn’t know where to turn after my last “failure”. Careful reading of the poem (as it always does) pointed the way.

            After going to the TOP of my waterfall, I found a “Beautiful Placid Little Pool” that was right at the base of a natural landmark. A Landmark that I had noticed three months earlier, but ignored.

            I have now found a bit of supporting information in two different stories in TFTW, I MAY
            again be disappointed, but this time, I think not.

            What a BEAUTIFUL state Wyoming is. THANKS Forrest for the “THRILL”, and thank you WY Girl for your words of encouragement.

            Good luck in your searches, may you find all that you seek and TRY to STAY SAFE


      • MikeyJ et All,

        While I’m not in the “tarry scant” is tar colored club i will share this with everyone:

        If you look how alcoves like those found in Mesa Verde are formed by ground water that slowly seeps in through aquitards and aquicludes (possibly water high) and causes rocks to fracture and break off thus forming these hidden alcoves. Research seeping springs. There are also those “black” streaks that flow down the sides of these sheer cliffs some of which flow into these alcoves, these streaks are called “desert varnish” could be your “tarry scant” Petroglyphs are commonly found carved in desert varnish, look it up it may be useful in your theories.

        While I do like the aquifers as the potential “water high” I do not believe that “tarry scant with marvel gaze” is a clue. for me now it just means “take a few to enjoy your surprise in finding the chest”, but I’m constantly adjusting my views.


        • Interesting stuff.
          So the Blaze could possibly be a glyph by the hand of ff on “desert varnish”? I imagine there’s a way to determine what streaks will last like a petroglyph from ancient times.

    • maybe marvel is someone’s name. And you see the blaze as they would. Search Marvel, who knows, I would try two L’s though. Poets tend to think alike…:)

  51. One of my focal points is that perhaps wwwh is when you make the decision to take action.

    ♦ “The person who finds the treasure will have studied the poem over and over, and thought, and analyzed and moved with confidence. Nothing about it will be accidental”.

    The moment you move with confidence you have halted the luke warm attitudes of indifference and inaction.

    • Leza, that is possible. First clue could just be a thought. You best talk with Seeker on that idea. I think he’s looking at that avenue.

      • I wouldn’t say a “thought” as much as the first two clues work very closely in combination. In fact, it may be that most of the clues are like that… hence the caution on counting what we think are individual clues, as a single place.
        Example would be the watershed of the RM’s. One could guess waters as plural to be all waters etc. but there is no real confirmation unless canyon down and NFBTFTW works to explain this. Then hoB and no place for the meek with the ending is every drawing nigh work in combination to place one at a location… many say this is 6 clues, where I say it might be the answers to clue one and two… and the location needed to be at.

        This is where, what is a clue to what is a hint to how many clues are need for answer is difficult to understand.
        My only argument is fenn has called everything a clue… even the eliminating clues such as, states and no dam, etc. My only guess to why he does it… is to not give us an understand to what a hint is to a clue… if we truly understood what either was / are, we might have solved this by now.

  52. I was reading some of the post here and wanted to apologize. I don’t mean to come on here like some low brow snob and claim I know where Home of Brown is, or say WWWH is “here”, or WWWH is “there”, and arrive at that conclusion by simply looking at a few words and absent commas.

    Most of you have been here a long time and really know what’s up. I’m new and have my “ideas” on things. I think I will take the time to really listen to what some of you are posting so we can answer that most important question:

    So where is it that I must go to find that trove left for me to seek? I know why I’m looking where I’m looking (that’s a secret)—but where to look is the final question, isn’t it? It will take a lot of wisdom to find that chest–so I need to start listening a little bit more. Thanks everyone for your sound advice.

  53. As I’ve said before, I believe it’s in a well. I know all the reasons why many believe that is not possible or supported by what Forrest has said about structures and such. Tomorrow or the next day Dal is going to post my solve for all to see and perhaps start the stampede to Montana (hint hint) to find indulgence.

    It will also show that the poem is circular and has layers – an internal one and an external one and in true Fenn fashion the clues point to both at the same time.

    I may be wrong and apologize if it sends someone off on a Wild Goose chase but I am confident that many will never look at the poem the same way again.

    I think we will also answer the question about the difference between a clue and a hint and show how the poem absolutely contains both.

    • Stealth,
      Can’t wait to see your solve, i love going into the thought process of others. I’m curious to see what kind of a well you think it might be and why FF would originally pick a well as his final resting place.

    • Stealth,

      I’ll be watching for your theory… Just wondering one thing, or if you explained it in your theory… how do you get the 42lb, unlocked chest out of the well?
      I do have many other questions like; How deep is the hole? How old is the well? What property is it on? etc. So I hope your explanations are in the theory… if not, Well [pun intended]… there’s a heads up for ya! lol

      • It’s not a very deep well, more like a water reservoir of a potable water pump like shown in TFTW on pg 19. The solve gives the exact location.

        • I like the idea if there is a mechanism to bring it up as that is a very Fenn thing to do.

          As in Myst

  54. Stealth—look forward to seeing that. It could be in a natural well—interested in seeing your conclusions.

  55. Leza–many years ago I owned land above Billings called Flat Willow Creek. I sold it. What an idiot. Wish I still had it today. The place was beautiful!

  56. Jake—like the color coded poem. If you mix green and orange you get brown right? 🙂

    • Maybe Joe,
      I think you get a lime green with the colors I have there.
      You would be better off with smaller parts of black than red or blue & red.

  57. What in blue blazes is happening to me? Last night I had Brown bread with warm water for dinner. Later I snacked on some “pop secret”. Am I on the way to the loony bin?

  58. Good evening fellow searchers. The end of the chase has finally come for me. I will go tomorrow where I think the chest is and retrieve it. I will make the news no matter if I find it or not. There is a time in one’s life when a man, or a woman has to make the hard decisions and for me that time is tomorrow. Nobody said getting to the chest was going to be easy, and believe me this will not be easy for me. Anyways I will not post any of my comments,or opinions anymore for after tomorrow all of the chase,for me, will end for the good, or for the bad. I bid everyone farewell, and please stay safe. See you in the funny papers! R.C.

    • RC

      Your comments have me concerned…hope you are telling friends or family where you are going and of course we all wish you luck and that you find it. If not, keep your chin up the sun will rise tomorrow and the chase will continue for us all and hopefully for you too. I have made 15 trips so far and every time the current solution was better than the one before, yet no chest and I continue to have hope. Don’t go anywhere unsafe and don’t do anything you might regret or anything illegal. Not sure why you will make the “news” either way but if you don’t find it the day after you might use your imagination in a way that leads to the chest. Many of us searchers care about each other even though we have never met. We find a common humanity in this elusive and difficult quest. Be safe out there and please let us know your experience either way!!

      • RC –

        I wish you well in your adventure. Your post is a concern to me and others I am sure. Don’t be doing anything hard or stupid. We care about you. I have always enjoyed your posts and expect to hear about your journey.

    • RC

      Like those that have posted before me, I wish you the very best of luck in your search. I hope that you find all that you seek.

      I have been on eight searches this year, and I still do not hold the chest. I was SURE about each search, just as I am sure that you are SURE about yours.

      Life DOES go on after a failed search.

      I sincerely hope that we hear from you again, whether you are successful or not.

      You are a bright young man with a GREAT future ahead of you. Certain of us have kidded you a bit in the past, but it was meant as kidding – nothing more. Please accept it as that – JUST KIDDING – nothing more.

      Life is good, Life is GREAT – get out there and ENJOY IT!

      An old fool, hoping to hear from a Bright Young Man again.


    • RC, good luck to you. I hope you continue to check out this
      blog after your search, regardless of whether you succeed
      in finding the TC.

      I made two expensive, time-consuming search trips in the
      last few months, and haven’t found the TC. But each time,
      I learn something useful. I think I’m getting closer, and do
      plan on going again. Yeah, it’s very discouraging — if not
      depressing, each time I fail. This comes from getting my
      hopes up, and fantasizing about how finding the TC will
      change my life. Then, after all the driving, hiking, and
      spending money (which is very scarce in my life), I return
      to my impoverished existence at home. It’s a drag! But I
      think I have been very close to success this last time, so
      quitting doesn’t make much sense to me. I may, however,
      have to wait more than 6 months before my next search
      trip, due to lack of funds.

      I hope you can see things this way. Please don’t do
      anything rash or drastic.

      If you just quit the chase, that’s not necessarily a tragedy,
      and it may even not be a bad thing. There are many
      reasons for people to do what they do. Each person’s
      situation is unique.

      Most small businesses fail within a few years of starting. It’s
      nothing new (or unexpected). But life goes on. People try
      different approaches, or even find new things to pursue.

      Good luck to you. Please stay safe.

  59. Please never give up hope. I, too, have made several trips to my solve. My last trip was going to be my last one, too, as I had decided I would give up if I didn’t find it. I was sure I knew where it was but I returned home empty-handed. The interesting thing is that I unexpectedly found another clue after I returned which has given me much more confidence in my solve. You can’t give up as you never know when you’ll have that “Eureka” moment.

    We all need to keep this in perspective. This chase can easily consume you if you let it. I don’t know which is worse, the fortune and the change in life it can bring, or the mental challenge that we just can’t let go of until this is solved. I have had lots of sleepless nights due to the chase. However, I recently realized the toll this was having on my personal life and have come to realize, the chest is not that important. I am much more at peace now that I am focusing more on my personal life and treating the chase as just a hobby to do in my spare time. We really need to keep it as a fun activity and not let it overcome our lives.

    Our well being, to include our health and relationships with family and others, is much more important! If the chase is becoming too overwhelming, please take a step back to just enjoy your trip. Look at the beauty of nature, hear the sounds, and smell the wonderful scents (hopefully you’ll smell pine needles at your solve location).

    I really hope that you enjoy your trip and that only good comes out of it. Please let us know how it goes. Even though most of us do not know each other, we still care. It will be bring us much joy to see another post from you.

    Good luck!

  60. Do not allow your journey to be at odds with reality. f

    RC—keep Forrest’s words from yesterday in mind. The search is important, but not more important than you. You are unique. Remember that, and all the best with your search! Good luck!

  61. I believe the true solve would be scrutinized and criticized if posted. A lot of us have thought we had it all figured out only to sit there on site shaking our heads. I read a post where the guy was so sure he knew where the chest was he wrote a victory poem to Fenn and was practicing how he would answer press conference questions. (Sound familiar anyone?).
    I agree with CR. Every trip for me also reveals new clues and insight toward the solve. I think you not only have to be clever in puzzle solving, but you need to put ‘boots on the ground’ to test your theories in order to get closer to the prize.
    Remember FF said: “The person who finds the treasure will have studied the poem over and over, and thought, and analyzed and moved with confidence. Nothing about it will be accidental”.
    How can you tell if you are on the right track and not just obsessed? I don’t know! Only the finder of the chest will know. Even the most confident are only speculating till then. My solve waits till spring. Good luck to all.


    If I came up with a complete solve and a logical solution to every clue but could not get my hands on the treasure because my solve concluded that Fenn dropped it in a river and mother nature buried it, then what should I do?

      • JDA,
        That is an option! Recovery could be more costly than its value. Also, it could be three feet under and a half mile down stream.

    • @Ken K I’d imagine I were 79 or 80 y.o. and then I’d know what to do! Most likely not submerged. IMO, what would be the point in hopping the Bio would still be undamaged. Also, big heave rocks and boulders mover with time in streams and rivers and so would the chest so I’d think the TC is resting nicely on land but near water (fall)….IMO

      • cholly,
        Yes I agree with the damage potential to the Bio if it is not protected however, IMO Fenn is smart enough to figure out a way to protected it. In the water, under the ground, or under the river, all have the same elements of nature over time.
        Also, the Bio, IMO, is the most precious part of the treasure to Mr. Fenn

        • Ken K.

          “…The treasure is not hidden in a dangerous place in the normal definition of the word, realizing that there probably is no place on this planet that is safe under all conditions. Bloggers have quoted me as saying that a child could walk up to the treasure. I don’t think that’s an accurate quote because a three year old girl would have a problem without some help. Remember, I was about 80 when I hid the chest, and had to make two trips.f ”

          If a three year old would need “some” help to walk to the chest… I highly doubt she would need a life-jacket.

          • Ken K,
            a couple other quote that might help… but it’s your choice how you perceive them…
            Torg and Elloit OH. … approx. 2:55 mark ~ “If you can find the treasure chest, it won’t be a big job for you to get it.” [ I would think retrieving an unlock 42lb 10″ sq. chest covered by mud, in water, and most like full of mud and water… would be a very difficult task. it could almost double the weigh ]

            Question posted 6/26/2014:
            [In part ] [ you can look up the Q&A and decide if it is relevant.
            “…Although I am not ready to say the treasure is not in water, I certainly didn’t want moisture to enter the jar…”
            { is this a play on word? is fenn actually saying the treasure is not in water, but is not ready to actually say it?}

            Another comment was about why the chest was left unlocked [ I don’t have that one at the ready ] fenn explained he didn’t want someone using a crowbar to pry open the chest and damage the chest. I would think, this thought would include how the chest was hidden as to protect it as best as possible… So, sealing the lid closed to make it water proof, imo, is also out the question.

            Just food for thought.

        • Ken K,

          Here is a paragraph from an article written by Tony Doukopil in The Daily Beast dated 3-03-2013. The article is titled “Clues for Finding Forrest Fenn’s Buried Treasure, Part 2.” I printed this out, along with 3 other articles written by Tony Doukopil between 8-20-2012 and this one. Here is what Tony wrote:

          But as you frisk and refresh the poem for its meaning, keep a few more clues in mind: some people have suggested the treasure is under water, plopped in a river where Fenn loved to fish or swim. They are wrong, I know, for in a moment of exuberance, Fenn said so. He told me the chest is “exposed” to rain and snow, and could be scorched in forest fire. He told me the box, which is 10 inches by 10 inches, is unlocked—suggesting it’s someplace where it is unlikely to be toppled or otherwise thrown open.”

          Tony continued: Most importantly, when you’re scouting locations, consider that Fenn originally needed a space big enough to fit his own body. That’s because he planned to entomb himself alongside the box, and he still might. How serious is the idea? An earlier draft of the poem ended, “Then take the chest and leave my bones.”

          My comment (not Tony’s) to you all: Hope this helps some of the newer folks who are just now getting into Fenn’s thrill of the chase. I still haven’t read JCM’s new digital book on Fenn quotes, so don’t know if this in in it.

          • Oh no Cynthia!
            You’re throwing the Tony D interview out there as evidence?

            I really thought you knew better than that.

            Please take that interview, in what he says F said is BS.

          • Mr Fenn, in relation to the final resting place of the chest, which of the 4 natural elements (Earth, Wind, Water, Fire) would mostly compromise it resting? ~ James
            I know what the question is. I don’t think earth can hurt it, under the right conditions wind might affect it, it’s probably already wet, and look at what fire did to the twin towers. Nature makes her own rules, James, so I try to not be absolute when talking about her.

          • Cynthia,

            It’s good to see these comments brought back up again, it seems many people dismiss Tony’s words, I however do not. One thing I have constantly considered is that Forrest’s special place may just be anywhere outside within the great outdoors and not any specific location like YNP. If this theory holds true then as he has said the place he chose to have his bones rest is the same special, dear, fond place he chose to secret the chest, outside in the sunshine. So while he ruined his whole plan to have his bones rest in silent repose next to the chest by recovering from cancer, Forrest still went ahead with his plan to secret the chest, but he now will rest through all eternity pillowed down and scented in, but not next to his trove. And too many searchers IMO are starting from a location “they” feel may be special to Forrest then force fitting the poem around that idea rather than allowing the poem to lead them to the treasure.

            “You will ignore the poem at your own peril” f


    • Ken K-
      I think you have two choices-

      1. Start over with a fresh approach-
      Admit to yourself that the clues can lead to many places in the RMs. There are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of interpretations for every clue. It’s a puzzle and not an easy one…
      Also admit that being in a river where the chest could be washed away, tumbled, ripped open and items fall out is not a likely place for a smart man to hide a chest.


      2. Claim you didn’t find it because someone else took it.
      Many searchers have done this when they were certain they figured it out but the chest wasn’t there..
      I call this the Cry Baby Excuse. They cannot admit they were wrong.
      We get a few of those every year.

      Personally, I think you should choose number 1 above…

      • Dal,
        Working for a lifetime career as an engineer I understand probabilities and odds. If you get clue 1 and then 2 which leads you to 3 then 4 and this process goes rapidly all the way to all 9 clues, with clear logical solutions, the odds are incredible small that my location is wrong. My paradox is I can’t clear my head for a fresh start.
        I am also an avid fly fisherman and so is Forrest Fenn. Fisherman frequent the same streams year after year and can’t help but notice the power of nature on the ever changing creek beds. How do we logically decipher “put in” other than a boat reference? Then how do we decipher “look quickly down” as not a river bottom?

        • Ken K –

          If I am in a ship and I am piloting that ship on an ocean I put out to sea from my pier and I put in to shore and dock my boat at a pier.

          Those are nautical terms.


        • Ken K.
          I think you are deluding yourself…
          To begin…if there are thousands of possibilities for each clue and you choose the wrong first one…then obviously the rest will also likely be wrong…even though they work..

          Dozens of people have written here on this blog and elsewhere that they cracked the poem. That all the clues made perfect sense and that they followed them directly to the chest…but the chest wasn’t there…so logically it must have already been found and removed…

          Interestingly, few..if any of the final resting spots that were revealed to me were the same. Not even close.

          What I am saying is that anyone can follow the clues wrong directly to a place that makes perfect sense…but the chest isn’t there because it’s not the solution that Forrest used…
          In this puzzle there are many potential “correct” solutions…but only matching the solution that Forrest is using will lead you to the chest…

          If you don’t believe me than you might consider placing your solution on the blog…since it doesn’t work anyway 🙂
          and watch how fast people will debunk your solution…tell you how much of what you believe can’t be true..point out your mistakes…maybe even open your eyes a bit…

          How many people on this blog figured they had it solved at one time or another but it wasn’t there?
          I’m guessing there are a lot of hands going up from a lot of smart people…

          Now, lets all put an “x” on the map where the clues led us…
          Guess what Ken K.? The “x”s are all over the map…no two are in the same place…

          • Dal,
            I don’t think I am deluding myself!
            There are indeed thousands of WWWH.
            There are a few less WWWH in a canyon.
            There are even less WWWH in a canyon BHB.
            The closer you get to the end of the poem the easier the clues are solved.
            If you make it to the end of all the clues the odds are in your favor. Only one place has the best match.
            Happy New Year!

          • Ken—

            Forrest said he originally planned the to throw himself on top of the chest when he died. He originally had the words (paraphrase) “take the chest but leave my bones”.

            This would be extremely hard to do at the bottom of a river, unless Forrest had a really good diving suit and helmet, and something to ensure the treasure and his bones did not become separated in the river.

            So I have a great tendency to believe the ghost of Mark Twain is correct. Billy Barty and my grandmother also agree with that by the way.

          • Sparrow: “Forrest said he originally planned the to throw himself on top of the chest when he died.”

            How the heck can a dead person do that?
            Nevermind, I don’t wanna know.

            Just bustin your chops.

        • “Nothing is for certain but death and taxes, and that the dang treasure is not on a river bottom I can tell ya that”

          —The ghost of Mark Twain

          • Sparrow,
            I guess I need Forrest Fenn to say it is not in a river.
            How can you be so sure? Convince me.

          • The Watch Problem

            In my opinion, the strongest case against the chest being submerged in water is the recent photo of the early contents of the chest. Particularly, the watches demonstrate an intent to keep the contents as dry as possible. Their inner components would be damaged by submersion in water rather quickly. Although they were removed, the watches were a part of the original plan. They suggest that putting the chest under water was unlikely part of the advanced planning. He took great care to ensure that his autobiography was sealed for the ages, but that was a small jar. Extending containers to larger items in a small chest seems implausible. The sealing of the jar with the autobiography also suggests the chest itself is not sealed, and jars are also in the photo of early contents, so, again, chest not sealed in early planning as well.

            That’s logic, or what I like to call “guessing better”. When you consider the chest being submerged in water, you have to consider that large watches were part of the original plan.

          • You know I have to ask the question why he removed the watches?

            The wax he used on the jar is good for thousands of years & does not get brittle in cold temperatures although he said it would.

            Your effort will be worth the cold…

          • The large gems were removed as well, so one might come to the conclusion that it’s to make room for gold, gold, and more gold!

        • Ken K.: Your clue #1 is almost certainly wrong. As a result, everything else is as well. IMNSHO, the chest is not under water. Forrest is not an idiot.

        • Ken K

          after falsely identifying all the clues/landmarks,
          I searched a large natural cut (my blaze) made by a water-course, just to the west of (the fat bit of) Carnelian Creek – I believed I had to ‘look quickly down’ the direction of the water-course.

          Lately I’ve been thinking the blaze is a dis-used trail, or even a path that is yet to be blazed, that a searcher needs to look (quickly) down.

          ..then I got stung on the toe by a bee, and that certainly made me look quickly down.

          the mind wishes to believe whatever is immediately convenient or relative, so I try not to think at all anymore
          ( ..which is surprisingly easy for me)

        • Ken, logic is only as good as the variables that the logic is based upon. You may have created the perfect logical solution based upon your defined variables but your variables and logic for that matter may different from Mr. Fenn’s. Remember humans have been capable of adamantly applying logic to all kinds of myths such as spontaneous generation of flies from meat, giraffes whose necks lengthen from one successive generation to the next because of some physically (not genetically) acquired change during the life of the parent animal, the earth is flat, or the earth is the center of all things. Those that held to these theories were absolutely convinced of their correctness. However truth emerged over time through those who were open to the idea that seemingly perfect logic may not be all that it seems. Unless you have the chest in hand, I would suggest remaining open to possibilities.

          • threerocks,
            Your post is thought provoking.
            POINT 1-Logic can be defended with a valid argument. If someone says it is not in a river! Make a valid argument. IMO this is logical and reasonable.
            POINT 2-Yes there are a lot of people that have partial solutions and find a way to rationalize a stanza with a Nostradamus types of explanations to trudge forward. All writers have a writing style and Fenn’s style is witty word manipulation not at all like the 14th century predictor. IMO this too is logical and reasonable.
            I applied that writing style to my solve.

          • Ken, a “valid argument” is nothing but subjective interpretation of definitions until it is grounded in some objective measure of truth. Until the chest is found you cannot be assured of the validity of any of your points. All of your neurons imay be firing in the direction of “yes this is it” but until you find the chest it is just a hypothesis. There are endless beautiful hypotheses in the archives of history that have been ruined by ground truth. So until you have that ground truth I’d suggest remaining a bit more circumspect.

    • Ken K, if it’s where you think it is give me a shout, I’m a certified commercial diver with lots of contacts. First we’d run a sonar of sorts over the area and some under water cams. Maybe wait until your river is frozen and the water clearer and shallower, chop though the ice and go get it, simple. Snow machines with sleds to haul in the all the gear, all done at night time too. Total cost less than 20K, I’d take 25%. Deal? lol But wait, the wizard has told us no special equipment needed.

      Happy New Year Ken K and keep thinking! Maybe your solution is ballpark and you just need to BOTG to dial it in. Thanks for sparking some discussion as we al sit around waiting for midnight!

    • Ken K.
      I like the theory of the chest being in water.
      2 lines in the poem lead to this.

      Look quickly down: Hold your breath & take a look.
      Your effort will be worth the cold: Cold water.

      There are many pools of water that would be safe enough to place the treasure in & are part of the stream, creek or river.

      I have found about a half dozen or so of these pools where the depth of the water is from 2-5 ft deep & the chest would go nowhere down stream because it can’t.

      • Jake,
        Your ideas are logical in my mind although I think you could make or buy something with a clear glass bottom to break the water riffles as opposed to submerging your head. Add a flash light too it.
        Three other points that I want to say.
        1-My interpretation of “in the cold” is a little different than yours. IMO it means to hunt in the winter when the water levels are at their lowest and clearest. This would require a pair of neoprene chest waters and a life jacket.
        2-You may be able to use the USGS water flow web site to determine when the water is at its lowest level where ever you are searching. Also, note the annual high rate to get a sense of the forces of nature. THINK SAFETY
        3-“look quickly down” implies that you may need a partner to hold your boat back or hold your britches. IMO it means faster moving water.
        BE SAFE!
        P.S. I think some people are going to try and have some fun with the BOTG picture that we’ve created. It’s not the typical “look what I found daddy” little girl treasure finder scenario.

        • Row row row your boat, torrently down the stream…
          Take another look at the pic of that river in your solve Ken.

          Have you ever tries to wade in something like that?
          I didn’t think so.
          You, my friend have some serious issues….

          • Jake,
            Congratulations Jake now “just look down, your quest to cease.” You are where I was two years ago. Instead of resorting to skepticism it’s time to take another look! The picture was taken in July when the water level is just past its highest. Your reaction was even anticipated by Fenn “so hear me all and listen good” You may want to research what this place is like in the winter because “Your effort may be worth the cold” “if you are brave and in GlenWOOD” Canyon where the pic was taken. See how easy the poem solves its self in a sequence if you are in the right place!
            A short story can depict what the picture place looks like in the winter. There is a zip line over the river at a campground just up from the pic. I could not figure out how they built the tower on the isolated far side of the river so I asked the owner. He told me all the lumber to build the platforms was carried across the river in the winter when wading is only ankle deep.
            Don’t forget that this is still “no place for the meek” even though children float down this river all summer long with guided outfitters and adult supervision.
            I hope this clarifies some of what you are seeing as my issues…

        • “I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.”
          “As an educated man I can tell ya the darn thing isn’t on a river bottom.”

          –The ghost of Mark Twain

          • Sparrow,
            Your writing style is tricky and can be misread just like FF.
            You quoted Mark Twain but you did not say what you think. Do you think the darn thing isn’t on the river bottom?

          • The Ghost of Mark Twain sometimes harrasses me. The other night I was meticulously scanning the poem and his ghost said:

            “You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus”.

            But as far as my own opinion—-no–I do not believe that the darn thing is under water. 🙂

          • Sparrow,
            You said”—-no–I do not believe that the darn thing is under water.” That is a double negative? Two negatives make a positive! Again you may be applying the FF tricky wording style. Can you please clarify?

          • Sparrow or Joe Sparrow?
            Why the name change?
            Are you one and the same? I am not assuming you are.
            I really wanted to hear from Sparrow?

          • Ken K. —

            Sorry, must have clicked on the wrong handle. I just go by sparrow now. I believe the treasure was hidden. I do not think it is submerged in water or any other liquid. I hope that answers the question.

  63. Ken K;

    You wrote above, “Then how do we decipher “look quickly down” as not a river bottom?”

    If I asked 100 searchers what they think “look quickly down” means, I am sure that I would get at least seventy different answers, and almost none would say it meant, “as not a river bottom”. It may make perfect sense to you, AND IT MAY BE THE CORRECT INTERPRETATION! None of us know. All I am saying, is ask around, and see how many fellow searchers come up with a similar interpretation. I, for one, just do not see it, but Best of Luck to you! JDA

    • JDA,
      I wish you had picked “put in” as the boat in water reference to scrutinize in my post. Ask 100 searchers what Fenn meant by “To far to walk, Put in”. I don’t thing there are 70 choices pertinent to method of travel.
      Now agree that you are in a boat and “just look down”!
      It’s a sequential solve as Fenn said.
      You are scrutinizing words out of context by starting in the middle.
      Happy New Year!
      Thanks for your input.

      • Ken K

        I do not think that I am taking it out of context.
        There is a period after walk isn’t there? Put in below the home of Brown is a stand alone sentence. If I took it out of context, it is because the first three lines of stanza #2 is one complete sentence, unconnected with put in. JDA

        • JDA,
          I understand what you are saying. please excuse my hard head.
          If I take what I believe are boat references and list them in order “put in” is first, then “no paddle up creek” is second “look quickly down” is only a water reference when I am locked in on the boat mindset.
          Ken K

          • Ken K

            Sounds good to me. Hope it is a sturdy boat, and that it does not get you scuttled. JDA

          • Ken K,
            so if you’re in Va. that makes us pretty much neighbors. I am an hour outside of our nation’s capital, why don’t we meet up sometime so I can talk you out of this Randy B plan. [IMO] you can’t assume or take everything ff says literally. He says ‘unlock the clues’, figure out what they mean….
            What’s the saying ‘up a creek with no paddle’ _remember as Dal says. “Forrest himself is a master of the double entendre.”

    • I’m with J3DA on this one Ken ..he knows six million languages after all.

      you’re heavily betting that ‘put in’ means entering a waterway by boat,
      but it also means; ‘to exit a waterway’ in the same manner

      effectively, that halves your chances of being entirely correct

      so ..how ‘sure’ are you precisely? – jus curious 🙂

      • Curious Hobbit,
        “there will be no paddle up” nails it for me.
        I am not deluding myself.

          • My solve is in Colorado. I have the only complete solve that has the characteristic writing style to match Forrest Fenn and I am happy to share my solution with all as I have done before. Anyone interested just sent an email to kdkkovach@gmail.com and I will send you a pdf file with a few photos. I live in Virginia and will not make any more trips for boots on the ground.
            Happy New Year

          • Ken K.
            I have to say if the chest were in that roaring river with an unlocked lid, all the goods inside would be scattered everywhere down stream.

            I like your ideas but not the place or conditions.

        • you may be slightly deluded in assuming that I was assuming that you were slightly deluded, in some assumed way.

          I simply stated that your odds are not as high as Caesars Palace odds

          ..but hey, apparently they hire deep-sea diving-suits in the Rockies somewhere, so be my guest

          ( ..just please find it before Jake does – nothing else matters really)

          • My fellow fury friend,
            I got the inside track to where it is & will be hiring a crew soon to excavate it.
            Check list:
            Chain saw
            Ice picks
            You will provide the diving bell
            Dry suite

            I will send you the coordinates & expect you to be there.

          • oh goodie – an adventure

            I’ll be there with bells on, Jake
            (no pun intended)

        • Hi Neighbor, aka theycallme 9clues,
          It you’re anywhere near Culpeper it’s a small world. I’m done with the thrill of the chase. I have enjoyed just sharing my research thoughts with a few people hoping someone else finds it. My thought process must be flawed because NO ONE is interested. You don’t have to talk me out of anything that’s dangerous but it is real nice of you to offer. I wish someone had made that offer to Randy a year ago. I think we should reflect a little on Randy Bileau as we near the day of his passing. We all can learn from his one fatal error and not let our own heartfelt passion of the hunt take us beyond our physical boundaries. I did not know him but I have a little extra admiration for him because we have similar interpretations of the poem.
          This is over and out for Ken K.
          Best of luck to all you hunters and be safe.

          • Sorry to see you go Ken K. If you ever want to just chat, my email is SculptorJDA at aol dot com

  64. 🙂 Happy New Year WyGirl !! And to everyone else too! It’s going to be a great new year.

  65. I think it is in a creek or stream. Water High. I think the Blaze is also there. But one must find the blaze. Yet it is in the wood. But it all depends. If one has found the hoB. The home contains something of Brown.

  66. Hi Neighbor, aka theycallme 9clues,
    It you’re anywhere near Culpeper it’s a small world. I’m done with the thrill of the chase. I have enjoyed just sharing my research thoughts with a few people hoping someone else finds it. My thought process must be flawed because NO ONE is interested. You don’t have to talk me out of anything that’s dangerous but it is real nice of you to offer. I wish someone had made that offer to Randy a year ago. I think we should reflect a little on Randy Bileau as we near the day of his passing. We all can learn from his one fatal error and not let our own heartfelt passion of the hunt take us beyond our physical boundaries. I did not know him but I have a little extra admiration for him because we had similar interpretations of the poem.
    This is over and out for Ken K.
    Best of luck to all you hunter!

    • Ken K………… what is that Eagles lyric Goofy always likes to post, ‘you can check out but you can never leave’

      Yeah, sorry I didn’t see your earlier comment, & hate to see you bugging out.
      It’s funny, and people must think I am some kind of quack, but I approach strangers all the time, telling them about ff and his treasure hunt.

      Yeah, for the past couple of winters, I would go up to people in libraries, stores, where ever, hand them Dal’s website address & tell them to expand their mind. East coast people seem like they’ve never heard of the RM’s.

      Was ff writing a self-help book?
      In many ways I believe Fenn is reaching out to people in all walks of life, encouraging them to think for themselves, live within their means, find some balance, simply be a nicer person over all. Best of luck.

  67. The chest is wrapped in burlap, on the second shelf of a walk-in freezer, in a Casino just inside an Indian Reservation. The person who put it there chuckled and said “They wouldn’t think of looking here in a million years. This is the last place they’d think to look”. Then he walked out to his rented sedan and drove home.

    • Maybe… and someday Frosty is going to order the lowly dishwasher boy to clean out the freezer… What a nice surprise for him. :-

      • “Frosty, I threw that old box wrapped in burlap in the trash. Anything else you want done, or should I get back to washing dishes?”

  68. Sounds tempting to me with the heavy load of roasts and the ice ladened high. Wheres the chef? Look quickly down at your plate – tarry scant and marvel gaze, Will you share where your plate is?

  69. I just picked up on this mystery yesterday, and I didn’t overthink it. Starting from where I believe he was referring to by “warm waters” and simply following his instructions in order has led me to a very specific location where “the blaze” should be visible (whatever that means) if I’m correct.
    Now the more I research the history and rumors, the more likely it seems to me that this is the spot.
    Not sure what I’m going to do with the info, since the area is a long way from Iowa…

    OTOH, I’m sure that everybody on this forum was just as certain when they started and the treasure’s still out there…

    • John—

      Welcome to the search. Who knows? Maybe you HAVE solved it. But yes or no you are going to have a lot of fun, and learn lots of new things, that’s for sure. All the best to you!

    • YOU are absolutely correct…at least the last sentance is absolutely correct (x 60,000 +/-)

      Best wishes, “stay safe” and don’t run up the credit cards.

    • Welcome, John! There’s nothing like a good excuse to make a trip out to the Rockies this summer! Word of advice (one that I follow myself): Plan a good destination for a nice hike in the same area IN ADDITION to where you think the treasure is hidden; that way you’ll have a win-win trip out no matter if you find it or not! Good luck! 🙂

  70. I have a solve!

    1st Quatrain = He has gone alone into his grave with his treasure and secret. Hinting with his poem.

    2nd = Begin “it” at the clouds, and follow the rain down into the canyons of the earth.

    3rd = Would the meek set out to rest in their own grave? The end is coming, you cannot fight it. Heavy loads of mud fall on you while the rain collects high.

    The blaze is the burial hole.
    Look down into the grave. Your quest of life is done.
    Don’t linger at the inevitable, accept the coffin and rest in peace.

    I won’t write more in case my solve is correct.

    Just kidding…But I do want to bring something up I have never seen in all of my lurking.

    Why is it that we can come up with convincing solves but there is no treasure? Maybe we are looking at the poem wrong? Like it’s not supposed to be taken literally? With how vague it is, anyone can come up with anything from it. If “all of the information needed to find the treasure is in the poem” then why would it matter “where warm waters halt”? Or who or what “Brown” is? If we look somewhere other than the poem to figure those things out than are we perverting “…the information needed to find the treasure…”?

    • Brian-
      This is an important question. I can’t tell you how many folks come up with a solution and are then disappointed when the chest is not there..
      Some understand that their solution was wrong and they rearrange their thinking about the poem and try again..
      Others are so convinced their solution was correct, even though the treasure was not there, they feel someone else must have gotten there before them and removed the chest…but Forrest tells us it is still out there…
      Still others who found no chest after following their solution decide that the whole thing is a hoax…but Forrest tells us that the chest is real…and I do not doubt him…

      They key to understanding the answer to your question is in knowing that there are thousands of places that match the nine clues in the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe….THOUSANDS…

      Let me illustrate..

      If I say to you that I’ll meet you in 10 minutes. Here’s how to find me.
      Go down the street to the yellow house on the corner and turn right. Go a fair distance and look for the stop sign. cross the street there and go into the 7/11. I’ll meet you there.

      So you do that..and you wait but I don’t show up…
      Because you started from your house in Montana and I started from my house in Washington.
      We ended up at two different 7/11s hundreds of miles apart.

      How were you supposed to know where to start?

      The information is in the poem…somewhere…we have not all figured it out…
      If it were not in that poem…telling us where to start… it would be hopeless…
      We know that some have figured it out because they have been within a few hundred feet of the chest…
      But they messed up somewhere else…

      So…you have to figure out not only what the clues are…but also what they mean…where to start…

      This is why I believe it is very useful to know something about Forrest…
      and the fact that he had told us there are hints and clues in his memoirs…
      So you may not need the books to figure out where the chest is located…but extra information is pretty useful…in my opinion…

      • Dal,
        I’d agree with *most* of that… I believe the location can be determined simply from the poem and map, however. The additional info that can be gleaned or inferred would be useful for weeding out places it *isn’t*, but I don’t believe it’s strictly necessary to find it. The real trick seems to be avoiding confirmation bias and wishful thinking. If the poem *as written* doesn’t lead you directly to that spot or a single bit of related info doesn’t support that spot, it ain’t that spot.
        Of course, I say this as a guy who doesn’t have the treasure in my hands… But then again, I haven’t ventured to my chosen spot to see yet.

      • I think you may have misunderstood my point.If I’m understanding your reply correctly. My question is not whether the treasure is out there or not. Or if we can trust Forrests word. My question is, are we looking at the poem correctly in oder to solve it? The difference between your example and the peom is that the poem does not say the treasure is at a 7/11. We’re to solve the poem in order to know it’s at a 7/11 and where that 7/11 is at. Also, Forest worked on the poem for a long time. Why would he give such clear details as to where the 7/11 is at? What I was bringing up is that they’re not clear details. Should we look at it literally as to turn right at the yellow house? With so many confident solves that did not lead to the treasure shows that the clues are not clear as there being an actual yellow house. Otherwise people’s solves would be more similar. There would be similarities. Because it is so vague it enables such differences. And because of that I ask, are we looking at it correctly?

        There’s a riddle from the hobbit, goes something like, “40 white horses standing on a red hill. First they smash, then they (i forgot what they do lol) then they stand still.” If you read that knowing it’s a riddle to be solved how could you know how to unlock it (how to solve it) without knowing what the key is? You can come up with so many things as to what the riddle means if you don’t know what the key is. To put it in perspective without the key one could ask what’s the point? This is a riddle? Why are there 40 red horses on a red hill? Why 40 horses? Why a red hill? Horses smash? Maybe they’re smashing their feet? You can go on and on with question and find things that make sense but without the key how can you properly solve it? The key to that riddle is, what are the horses? Now we know the horses arnt horses and we should tightly focus on that. What are they? Forrest said there is a word that is key! Ok, so we have something to go on…Look for a specific word. Ok, now we need to find the key that unlocks the key. And I wanted to bring to light the possibility that we’re looking at the poem in the wrong way.

        • Brian Hughes,
          “With so many confident solves that did not lead to the treasure shows that the clues are not clear as there being an actual yellow house.”

          Ahh… but OTOH Mr. Fenn has acknowledged that searchers have been within 200′ of the spot. That implies to me that the poem *can* be logically followed to the destination, else how would multiple searchers arrive in the same area? Once you start thinking in the abstract, you’re essentially replacing his directions with your own.
          My opinion…

          • I didn’t say it’s impossible to solve. Nor would people not have similar solves. I said there are so many solves that are different. That shows that it’s not as clear. Maybe those searchers who were within 200 feet seen how the poem is supposed to be seen in order to solve it. Whether it’s literal or not. My question doesn’t bring debate. Its intention is to bring consideration. Someone who is color blind cannot become a navy seal because they can’t properly see a map. If there’s a way correct color blindness then someone needs to have the key to unlock that trophy…IF people are looking at the poem wrong then they won’t be able to solve it. Someone has to see the key in order to solve it.

          • Brian – Glad to see your thinking is in line with what I have believed for several years. We know that ‘there are a few getting close’ with a word that is key.

            I suspect that a person can get the first two clues correct (they are understandable enough without ‘a word that is key’, but can be more solidly confirmed in ones’ mind if you have it), walk past the other seven clues, and go right past the chest. I think they do this because without ‘a word that is key’, the remaining clues are too vague to understand without it.

            If one thinks about this enough, I think it reveals some very interesting things about the area where the chest is hidden.

          • Shucks man, I don’t even have a clue on what the “first” clue is. As far as I see the first line is a clue. It can imply that where he went is a place one would want to go alone. Like only one person can fit. It can imply simply he was by himself and it’s not one of the nine clues. It’s strange to me why the word “As” was chosen when the line could be read the same without it. Could that be the key word? I don’t know. The letter “I”, the second word, is a vector unit in giving cooridinates. Could that mean there’s cooridinates hidden in the poem? I don’t know. The first line taken literally says he went somewhere alone. In context with other things said in the poem does that mean one should go alone to avoid being caught? Because you can get in trouble being where the treasure is hidden? If that’s true it’s a clue to where it is. That’s just breaking down the first line.

            To keep this relevent to this thread and to stay on topic so we don’t wonder into a different theme of conversation I’ll add this. Its so easy to come up with a solve, with full confidence, without a foundation to look on to support that confidence other than our opinion. With so many solves that lead to so many different directions how can we be sure of the key we’re holding? Only when we find the treasure? Then that would mean we found it by accident and that goes against what Fenn said.

            Again, to stay on topic, I’ll ask again…Are we looking at the poem the correct way? I for one have not been working on this for years. I first heard about it a couple years ago and just picked it back up about a week ago. So let’s say, 2 weeks. 2 weeks is the total amount of time I’ve spent trying to solve this poem. What people have found that they can truely rely on I don’t know. Would they share it? I won’t hold my breath. So if what I’m saying is old news I’m sorry but I would like to encourage others to take a step back and consider how they’re viewing this. I can imagine how easy it is to be consumed with this. I noticed myself deep into the rabbit when I first heard about this. How easy it is to get lost in the wrong direction. And I noticed how “the truth of the matter” is not adding up by so many different solves. So I just wanted to share that with others and help.

        • Riddles come in a wide variety and are unlocked in a variety of ways. You can look at the words in them literally, figuratively, from an atypical perspective, using some sort of decipher, or a combination of all of those… or something else entirely! I’ll agree that knowing what type of riddle the poem is would go a long way towards solving it; that’s probably why Forrest hasn’t given away that information.

          Here’s another riddle for you:

          I turn polar bears white
          and I will make you cry.
          I make guys have to pee
          and girls comb their hair.
          I make celebrities look stupid
          and normal people look like celebrities.
          I turn pancakes brown
          and make your champagne bubble.
          If you squeeze me, I’ll pop.
          If you look at me, you’ll pop.
          Can you guess the answer?

          • I don’t think that riddle has a real answer. Focusing on the most absurd line, there’s nothing known that will make a human ‘pop’ by looking at it so the only logical answer is ‘nothing’.

          • Heh, sorry. What’s with a S. I see the question can you guess the answer. The answer to what question?

          • The answer to the question “Can you guess the answer?” There’s not really a solution to the rest of the riddle. Kind of a lame trick-answer of a riddle, but requires out-of-box thinking to get it.

  71. Flabbergasted, I am, f. Wowed by the range of hints. From fly balls to the flutterby, your imagination soars! I say again, genious! I hope you are smiling at the thought. Did you really have to capitalize Brown, f? I wonder, not around but in thought.

    • Slurbs- “not around but in”

      In that case wouldn’t that be ‘wander’?

      How’s this for fun,
      yeah ff probably never got into Jackson Browne’s music, but there is a cool monument to him “On a Corner in Winslow Arizona”

      Pop culture, why not?

  72. Brian Hughes,
    “With so many confident solves that did not lead to the treasure shows that the clues are not clear as there being an actual yellow house.”

    Ahh… but OTOH Mr. Fenn has acknowledged that searchers have been within 200′ of the spot. That implies to me that the poem *can* be logically followed to the destination, else how would multiple searchers arrive in the same area? Once you start thinking in the abstract, you’re essentially replacing his directions with your own.
    My opinion…

      • It’s all good! If I was up to it I’d totally write a completely different reply then my other one to this same post just to be funny but you don’t know me and my humor so I don’t want to add confusion. :p

    • …Unless it is within 200′ of a trail or area where people go. My current solve is an area that while visited, probably has minimal traffic but for an outdoorsy person, would be a nice little side trip to check out something neat, and might not even know it is related to the solve. Through my research, I have only found a couple of searchers who have written publicly about the specific area I think it may be – and the one person only had a brief hike in the area.

      To me, there’s a big hint that gives a relative area, then WWWH, Canyon down, NFBTFTW, home of Brown, meek, End is nigh, Heavy loads & water high, Blaze, look quickly down…

      To me, I have a good idea what the blaze is, but my solve takes me to something that will confirm exactly what the blaze is, and I will be able to walk right to it and then look down.

      My solve takes me to an area where you can easily be 200′ from something and not know it was there unless you knew to look for it there.

      All IMO of course.

  73. The “word that is key” only helps with one specific (but important) part of the poem — in my opinion.

    • I think I’m on the same page as you, tighterfocus. I have a guess as to what the key word is, but who knows if I’m right about that. I just need to try & find the chest so I can know for sure if I’m right, or if it’s a “Nope, back to the drawing board!” 🙂

    • The key word is “Brown.” FF said a kid could follow the poem so I gave his book and a map to my five kid’s. Each did their own reading except for the six year old.

      My 10 year old (a gifted child) came up with the same thing as my 17 year old and my 19 year old. My 27 year old read it and he sounds just like most of the posts on here.

      Our trip is planned for Yellow Stone area in July.

      As for comments on FF’S first stanza; I believe this is written so once FF departs our world his family will not be hassled by people who are searching still. If he went alone then there will be no reason for people to ask the family for more clues.

      I encourage everyone to only consider FF’S interviews, book, poem, and emails he writes back. By they way, he does respond to short emails. Take care and wish us luck.

      • Hi, JD!
        I think you made a valid point about the first stanza that makes sense to me. Good luck to you and your family on their search this year!

      • Isn’t amazing how ff has time for the ‘little people’. You made a good point about keeping the emails short/ brief.
        Interesting age range on that brood of yours, hope you have an enjoyable time.

    • No tightfocus, the right key word opens up the poem. IMHO

      It worked for me, finally. Keep looking, when you have the right keyword you are going to set back in your chair and say it can’t be that simple.

      Timothy…. Be safe enjoy the mountains

    • haha “..or death threats” – i really love your warped s.o.h Jeff
      (are you Australian?)

      fyi, i have a ‘flaming pitchfork retardant vest’ for sale
      ..if you’re THAT worried.. 🙂

    • Hi Jeff! Thanks for sharing your solve. It was an interesting read and looks like you picked out an all-around nice-looking area to explore.

      I like the HoB solve with the fire lookout tower on the summit of Mt. Brown. I do not believe I have seen any solves using this location, and I bet the views of Lake McDonald from the summit of Mt. Brown are great.

      Your solve brings up a few questions to me right off the bat:

      1.) When you are taking the canyon down from your WWWH location, where the Flathead River splits into two forks (Middle and North Forks), what causes you to follow the Middle Fork as opposed to the North Fork? Is it just because the Middle Fork is the one that heads towards the area of Mt. Brown? It seems like both forks eventually head into canyons along vehicular roads.

      2.) What causes you to put in at the base of Snyder Creek in particular? Is it just because that is the first creek in the vicinity of Mt. Brown that you encounter as your drive northeast? It seems that there are several other options for creeks to follow up on the west side of Mt. Brown, such as Avalanche Creek further north for example.

      3.) Does the hiking mileage seem doable for an 80-year-old man? I know that Forrest is in better shape than many for his age, but considering he made two trips in an afternoon with a ~21-pound load in his pack, almost 16 miles total seems an excessive amount of distance. The average person walking on level ground typically walks about 2 miles per hour. Factor in the elevation gain, and the fact that a portion of this appears to be completely off trail, I couldn’t see Forrest hiking this route twice in a day in fewer than 8 hours.

      Those are a few items to mull over that popped into my head as the coffee’s kicking in. Again, thanks for sharing.

  74. Indulgence is still safe and resting where Forrest placed it. I went out a few days ago and made sure of that. Based on my experiences I think I can say I’m in the 50′ club.

      • JDA – Luck was definitely on my side but I wasn’t able to complete the job. My days of searching for f’s treasure are done and while it’s bittersweet, I can honestly say that I was able to solve the poem. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

        I’m just a bystander at this point who is betting that one particular searcher will wrap this chase up sometime this year.

        • HMA;
          That seems to be a contradiction in terms – “I can honestly say that I was able to solve the poem No ifs, and, or buts about it” BUT “I wasn’t able to complete the job.” and ” Based on my experiences I think I can say I’m in the 50′ club.”

          If you solved the puzzle, and were within 50′, but you were not able to complete the job – BUT “I’m just a bystander at this point”

          I am sorry, it just does not compute. How can you win and lose at the same time? JDA

          • JDA – I’m sorry I can’t be more specific. I can understand that my post might seem confusing, however it’s best for me to remain silent like Sparrow suggests.

          • HMA;
            Without seeing your solve, I will venture to say that you probably have solved the poem – no if’s, and’s or but’s about it..

            The missing word is CORRECTLY. Since you do not hold the chest in your hands, I feel safe in saying that you have NOT CORRECTLY solved the poem’s riddles. Just MHO Better luck next time. Hope you enjoy your serving of humble pie. Eat it like a man! No more false boasting please! JDA

          • JDA –

            “The missing word is CORRECTLY. Since you do not hold the chest in your hands, I feel safe in saying that you have NOT CORRECTLY solved the poem’s riddles. Just MHO Better luck next time. Hope you enjoy your serving of humble pie. Eat it like a man! No more false boasting please!”

            It’s not possible for me to eat humble pie.

            Just going to sit back and enjoy the show. 🙂

          • That, my friend is sad. How many times have you beseeched me and others to eat our serving of Humble Pie? More than I would like to count. HOW SAD! JDA

        • Ponce de Leon: “I can honestly say that I was able to find the Fountain of Youth. No if’s, ands, or buts about it. I’m just a bystander now though at this point who is betting that one particular explorer will wrap this discovery up sometime this year”.

          Little Kid: “You still look pretty old sir”.

          • Sparrow;
            I was quoting Hear Me All – HMA is the one that says he was was able to solve the poem – NO ONE said anything about Ponce de Leon’s Fountain of youth. – I believe you are a bit confused this afternoon. JDA

          • JDA– My apologies—-my “Ponce De Leon” post was a tongue in cheek response to HMA’s post. If Ponce de leon had REALLY found the Fountain of Youth he would have a far youthful appearance. lol

            For anyone to say they know where the chest is “no ifs, ands, or buts” they better show proof of said chest or stay quiet. Ridiculous. 🙂

          • yeah Sparrow! – how dare you have a sense of humour within close proximity to JDA!!

            i mean.. what were you even thinking?! 🙁

          • Michael – I did not got to Frog Pond with that solution. I went about 500′ due south of the radio tower and searched from there back up to the tower and all around. I also retired that solution around early October last year. While some parts seemed to fit the poem, it was not what f would consider his special spot to be.

          • Thanks Hma,
            I’m going to radio inn & get the chest.
            I know exactly where you think it is now.
            Glad you’re not interested anymore.

        • You know you have the correct solve… Know you were 50′ from a million plus treasure… can honestly say; “I was able to solve the poem. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.”
          Yet again… no chest, {50′ ?}
          Not going back, and have no proof at all.
          I’m not sure if your insane, or crazy… 50′?
          Insane cuz you won’t go back, or crazy you come on the blog to announce you done it, when all you’ve done is brag ya did it…
          Are you a member of the Trump’s media staff?

          • Seeker – You’ve questioned everything I’ve ever typed on this forum (along with questioning everyone else who is searching) so you might want to take what I say with a grain of salt.

          • Sure, why not!
            That’s a great lesson to teach kids or anyone really.

            ‘Do hold me accountable for what I say a factual’

            I called it BS before, and still do. Remember… It’s you that comes to the world wide web and tell everyone you “know.” Then hide behind excuse to not explain why or avoid being questioned.

          • I think I read something about this
            yesterday on another thread…

            “I don’t concern myself about rabbit holes; only the dark magicians who’s intent is to fool.”

            Something like that…..

        • Here me all –
          Finally we have someone to tell us all about f’s rainbow and the double omega. I’m listening.

        • HMA – Why wouldn’t you go back if you know where it is?

          In what state do you believe Indulgence is hidden (if you are willing to say)?

          • (At the Top) – I’m mum on the whereabouts of the chest. I have reasons for not going back and I’m not willing to discuss.

        • Seriously?!

          You are certain you were within 50 ft and then you announce you are done?

          You obviously didn’t believe you were within 50 feet while you were there, otherwise you wouldn’t have left until every square inch was overturned.

          IMO – you were not within 50 feet, nor did you think so at the time.

          Got an idea – share your 50 foot location with any searcher and let them go back and check on your behalf. Heck, make it a party and invite 10 to keep them honest.

          One of the weirdest “I found it” posts I have ever seen.

          Scott W

      • Dal should sell hats – 500 ft club, 200 ft club, etc… I can’t even smell the sunshine.

        • J Smith,
          Lets be fair to HMA… you forgot the; I know 12′ club and the 3′ club.

          Well, that’s two down on the “I know all” list.

          Oh! right, be nice Seeker.
          Good job guys… can’t wait to see your post on how it was all done.

        • I’m getting a 50 foot Club hat made for Fennboree. Heck, I might even get a sticker for my car.

          ” I was within 50 Feet
          and then gave up”
          – HMA

          I have a better one –
          “I needed an excuse to quit
          so I said I found it”.

          Bingo – last one is the one I am going with.

          Scott W.

          • Better yet… A picture of the chest on a T-shirt, with the following slogan:

            I was so close that If ‘Indulgence’ were a snake, it would’ve bit me.
            So I QUIT!


          • tsk tsk – that’s just wrong guys, suggesting those slogans for HMA’s

            i’m quite certain he would much prefer that groovy ’70’s slogan:

            “I was (not quite) there ..man”

    • Yeah, you can say that. Can you honestly say that you have
      SEEN the treasure chest in the place where Forrest Fenn
      last hid this treasure chest? Thank you in advance for your

  75. The fairies are still safe and well at the bottom of my garden. I know this because when I came back in the house there were none there. 🙂

    • truly sorry to hear about your missing fairies, voxpops 🙁

      [note to self: immediately delete voxpops from the ‘listed as NOT officially crazy’ list]

      • Hey ch – good to hear from you… I think!

        In fact, although I’ve been kind of remote for a while, it’s been good to be able to come to Dal’s place every so often and hear from all the others not on ch’s officially crazy list! 😉 So while I’m here, and before I hunker down again, I’d like to share a couple of thoughts.

        Firstly, a huge “THANK YOU” to Dal, Goofy and Forrest for the amazing community they’ve fostered (best in the Chase, IMO), and to all the contributors who’ve done so much to promote deep thought and inspired discussion. I’m sorry my own contribution has been less profuse, particularly in recent months, but my approach to unlocking the poem is probably too “out there” for most tastes. (And perhaps, like ch, many of you thought I wasn’t quite “playing with a full deck!”)

        Secondly, back on topic… Forrest has said that the chest’s location is special to him. That has had all of us trying to second guess the puzzle meister’s meaning, and has encouraged the digging of 1001 rabbit holes. In my opinion, you really don’t need to look for a scenic wonder. Why? Because it’s in a really gross quarter of the Rockies! Don’t believe me? Think I’m trying to fit a square peg into a round hole? Go back to school! 😉

        Good luck everyone!

      • it’s ok to be crazy voxpops ..you are British after all

        just relax, make a nice cuppa tea, have a fresh scone with strawberry jam (or marmalade maybe) and watch an episode of Parkinson

        ..and bang on the cell-door if symptoms persist 🙂

        • Mmmmmm…. scone and strawberry jam, maybe with a touch of Devonshire clotted cream. Heaven!

          CH, as we both members of the Five Eyes club, surely we should be able to find the treasure between us…? So, if you’ll just unlock my door…

  76. If Hear me all has the solve and was within 50′ then he must be Forrest.

    Just my two sense.

  77. Until the TC is recovered, everything that anyone claims concerning distance is nothing but wishful speculation. The closest you can honestly claim is that you’re a member of the ‘somewhere in this state’ club. And that is reserved only for those who have physical​searched all 4 states. Sorry for bursting your bubble, HMA. And odds are that you aren’t even a member of THAT club. Please don’t claim your hopes as fact until you have the TC in hand.
    Good luck all.

    • KevinP – No offense taken KevinP. Searching all 4 states for the chest seems impractical and illogical. Why not work on the poem so you don’t have to wander aimlessly in the Rocky Mountains? Oh, that would be logical and most searchers like to discount the poem or force it to fit their own ides.

      I’ve had my run and now I’m just enjoying the show.

      • Spoken by the man who professed, “All I want to do is help you and others”… and yet now says that he has solved the poem, no ifs ands or buts, but is unwilling to even state which state he is searching in. This is the man who said that he would publish his solve when he returned, regardless of whether he found it or not – and now won’t say a word. Being two faced is one thing . . .

        You have shown your true colors HMA, and we are NOT impressed.

        You, like hundreds of others searched, and did not find it. SOOOOO – what’s the big deal? Having the audacity to then claim that you were within 50′ – my gosh, the arrogance.

        Any respect I might have had for, you flushed down the toilet yourself. No one had to pull the chain for you HMA, you did it all by yourself. Your bed – lie in it. JDA

        • JDA – You need to check your facts. I never said I would be publishing my solution. You have me confused with someone else. I did say that after my last attempt that if not successful I would not be doing any further searches and I’ve stated that on this thread today so I fail to see why I have rubbed you the wrong way.

          • 6. Don’t confuse readers. There is a difference between fact and opinion. No one knows where the chest is located until they have it in their hands. So, until the chest is in your hands, you cannot say that you know where the chest is located or that you have solved the poem…Saying these things will lead casual readers to believe the hunt is over and someone has found the chest… which is not the case. You cannot claim you have found it or know where it is or have solved the poem unless the chest is in your possession…until then it’s only your opinion. Making unsubstantiated claims will result in banishment from our community.

            Good bye HMA

          • Aw, c’mon Goofy! Don’t ban HMA from the group. I know he overextended his confidence a bit, but it seems like he’s been around here for a while and I feel like he realized his mistake as this thread has progressed this afternoon and tried to dial himself back a bit when he got so much flak from other commenters.

            Besides, I’d like him to stick around so that I can prove him wrong this season.

  78. So all,

    My kids have read FF’s first book about the treasure and have come to the conclusion that it is in Montana near West Yellowstone. We are leaving Georgia and heading that way the second week of June. If you see five or six kids with an adult, that will be me. These are seasoned hikers even though the youngest is six years old.

    Say hi if you see us out in the wood!

      • I have been in the search for just over a year and read many posts. But I see very few real solves. The ones I do (IMO) have obvious flaws.

        I didn’t let my kids read any post and they all came up with the same location in Montana. The Blaze is the hard part. I think you need to be there to find this part of the poem.

        If we do find it then we will likely leave a message at the site to let follow on searchers know that their solve was right on but just a day late and a dollar short.

        I hope I don’t find a note like that but if so, I will be fun to take the trip.

  79. The list of ” I know exactly where it is” members grows again. The “fact” searchers are the least likely to succeed in this Chase because of their inability to easily adjust away from a misstep. I believe that the searcher who successfully finds and retrieves Fenn’s Indulgence will be the one/ones that retraces their trail many times before figuring it out. Success will be measured by persistence.

    • Success will be measured by 10″ x 10″ x 5″
      Persistence hasn’t worked so far.
      Who knows what will.
      I am bringing a person called “confidence” with me on the search.
      Hey, ya never know what he meant.

  80. Prediction: It will be found very soon by somebody in the general area whether I get credit or not. Thanks for the chase Mr Fenn.

    • Good grief………..every year some obsessed, over emotional, searchers breathlessly declare IT WILL BE FOUND THIS YEAR!!!! They are absolutely sure of it. Then panic mode sets in and the frantic trips to find the chest begin. When they don’t find it and realize how foolish they behaved they say they had a wonderful trip enjoying nature when in fact they drove right past some of the most beautiful landscapes on the planet totally oblivious to anything except their manic depressive quest for the chest.

      Wash rinse repeat………

      • You’re right of course, Goofy, and I admit to some of that. But unlike your good self, most of us live a long way away from the Rockies, and so time, money, and opportunity play a much bigger part in our search. This is, after all, a million-dollar treasure hunt, and not a Sunday afternoon picnic. There’s bound to be a sense of urgency and focus.

        Some of us are serious searchers, and so the prime focus is on navigating to our spot – the scenery, however stunning, tends to take something of a backseat. It’s the adventure that stays in the memory, and the vistas are part of that, but overcoming difficulties, confronting wildlife, and testing our metal are the big takeaways. And one of these days, one of us is going to walk away with more than that.

        • That should read “testing our mettle.” Something of a Freudian slip there…

        • Vox,
          I think you missed the point. It’s not about capability of searching, as much as, the impatience of being the one who stated yet another prediction… with little or no facts to accommodate their ‘hopes’ and ‘wishes’

          Bragging rights come with accomplishments, not predictions.

          • voxpops – you DO know that Goofy was referring to you directly (re: over-emotional) ..doncha?

            [note to self: immediately send voxpops a nice cuppa tea]

            [..and the extended version of Watership Down on video-cassette format 🙂 ]

          • Whadya mean, CH? I have a heart of flint and a wooden leg,,, wait… no, I mean a glint in my eye and a nice oak finish….

          • [ ..and a can of anti-borer-treatment, for his leg and/or ‘finish’ – whatever ‘finished’ means..??]

            [ ..like ya all ‘well-polished’ or sumit?]

            [ ..cough cough 🙂 ]

          • sori voxpops – jus fun’n 😛
            (btw, are you at all interested in any up-coming ‘lunar adventures’ (with me)
            by any chance..?)

            (jus bring ya usual space-suit
            …and 300 full water-bottles)

            (please don’t worry tho!! – as i’ll explain our cunning plan at our agreed rocket-launch-pad rendezvous point, in five minutes GMT as the sparrow flies)

            ( ..it’ll be even more fun than Seeker walkin’ da plank, i reckon 🙂 🙂 )

          • That’s IT!!! Go in peace = Sea of Tranquility. Wow! Giant steps are what you take… You’re brilliant, CH!!!

            I’d love to join you on a loony – sorry, lunar – adventure. Would a diving bell suffice in place of my usual suit, which, owing to its instant recognizability, had to be returned (it’s so tiresome getting mobbed by fans all the time)? Trouble is, I’m about to take my protein pills and put my helmet on, as my own launch is scheduled very soon and countdown has already begun. So coordination might be difficult, unless Mr. Kim will let you hitch a ride on one of his ultra-reliable rockets (one stopover in the sea of Japan), leaving next week.

          • oh joy! ..Zapbit huntin’ posse detected! 🙂

            ..and yes, a diving bell is perfect mate
            – it’s bullet-proof!

            (oh.. don’t worry about ‘air’ – you can always breathe that later.. back on Earth) 🙂

            [r.i.p Ziggy/Mj. Tom btw 🙁 🙁 ]

          • oh, and just heard an honest rumour that Mindy might be join’ our lunar posse too
            – great news vox! ..given that we’ll prob often need a medic i reckon 🙂 so….

            ( ..jus be sure to keep a tight hold on your expensive m/detector at all times, mate)

            ( ..jus sayin’ 🙂 )

  81. The comment concerning “not on a Sunday afternoon picnic” comes from a very specific place. When you find where the comment originates from, IMO, you are much closer to finding the chests location. Remember, this comment is IMO! Not the quoted comment.

    • “I’m not flippant about this. It’s not something somebody is going to be able to do on spring break or a Sunday afternoon picnic. I’m looking a hundred years down the road, maybe a thousand years down the road. People don’t understand that.”

      Slurbs, while correct there was more stated during this comment/conversation… can you explain what you said or meant by; “When you find where the comment originates from, IMO, you are much closer to finding the chests location. Remember, this comment is IMO! Not the quoted comment.”

      • F was making reference to a comment made about a place by using the Sunday afternoon picnic comment… IMO! It is very difficult to find, but not impossible. When you find the place, it will ALL start to come together. Yes, IMO again.

  82. imo, find the story forrest tells of his trip down the madison river in his rubber dingy and read it, then find his story about going to fish at avalanche lake as a kid and read it. now read the poem. if you keep those two stories in mind as you read the poem and look at google earth and follow along you will find it takes you right to avalanche lake. wwh= madison-firehole junction, put in bhob= madison-beaver creek junction, go north. nigh= beaver creek -west beaver creek junction. water high= avalanche lake, ( fill in between the junctions as you read the poem and you will see it fits well). i just hit the obvious points on a map to help plot the course. notice a slowdown in sb’s and things coming out? i think forest has received emails that let him know he has enough info out there to solve this. he has told us what everything in the poem is. wwwh is the cover of tftw. simple math will get you the blaze. someone go get this thing!

  83. Hey guys there are A TON of comments on here. I’m not gonna lie I didn’t read them all but I’m going to share some of my conclusions that I’ve made from quotes from Forrest Fenn. One big one for me is which state the treasure is hidden in. I believe it is in New Mexico. Although I do not know the exact coordinates of its placement I believe it is there. Fenn himself has said on multiple occasions that he placed the chest somewhere “and it was done in one afternoon.” He has also said that he took “two trips from the car…” (Excuse me if I jump around a bit here) In Forrest’s book there is a map and the treasures location is somewhere on that map. That map includes the statesman of Montana, Colorado, New Mexico, and Wyoming. I did the math of how long it would take to drive to each of those states. Especially if it was done in one afternoon. Montana and Wyoming are immediately excluded. That leaves Colorado and New Mexico. However, Colorado is also very unlikely because Fenn has also stated that his family does not know where the treasure is hidden and his wife didn’t even know when he hid the treasure. Making it a short trip. And the drive to Colorado is about a 10 hour round-trip drive from Sante Fe where he resides. Making the only reasonable state that the treasure would be in is New Mexico. Hope some of this helps you with your chase and you have fun and be safe following the clues to your solution.

    • Chey-
      Forrest said he made the trip from his car twice in one afternoon. Problem is that we don’t know where he parked his car. Could have been any of the four states…so if that is all you have to base your belief that the chest is in NM I don’t believe it’s enough.
      I think you could stand to do some more research. There are many subtle clues and hints which you may not be aware of…

      • Question, made the trip twice in one afternoon. Trip = fall. In TTOTC, when did he fall twice.

        • Twingem –

          That’s a fun observation, but why don’t you just go ahead and tell us when he fell twice so we don’t have to page through the tome?


          • Page 70.
            “I remember falling twice while trying to get through the dumb barbed wire fence”.

          • Eaglesbound,

            I believe your quote is taken out of context as not relating to the poem. I also believe that it is not a subtle hint and only relates the the story that is being told.


          • Geez CharlieM, I was only assisting Twigem in providing the information Lugnutz had asked for. Read the post by Twigem. Thx

          • Thanks Eaglesbound.
            I really like this observation.
            Zaphod thinks that phrase is significant for the BTFTW stuff he does.

            So then if I’m Zap i might think Fenn did not make 2 trips. Rather Fenns saying such is just another reference to BTFTW.

            And why not?


          • Your welcome Lugnutz.
            I actually think that Twigem is on to something. Just my opinion.

          • Eaglesbound

            Twingem said something hot last week too.
            I will have to look back if I can.


      • Not sure this helps any, but I do not think the following perspective has been mentioned.
        “two trips from my car in one afternoon”

        I leave my house with the TC and get in my car. I park my car near the hides spot and go “from” my car and hide the TC. I walk back to my car, get in and drive home. I go “from” my car back into my house all in one afternoon.

        “two trips from my car in one afternoon”. Just another way to look at it.

  84. I think the chest, could be within 500 feet of the Tasting room of a Winery. That’s a place, where people continue to arrive.

  85. in the opening statement Dal says not to give away too much here so its best if i just keep my big beak slammed shut.
    but, murmur out the side…its in a basement. the chest. yes.*

    i think.

    * shiloh 11-2

    • Hello dodo bird. Curious to think the mention of basement, if you might be suggesting the treasure chest is under ground/below ground level or buried.

  86. pdenver- i am cautious here because Dal says not to give away too much. yes i am suggesting the chest, the chest mind you not the treasure, is below ground level and not buried*

    *Shiloh 11-2 , Dodo bird 5 years.

  87. I’ve got many guesses but only one seems to end in a very specific place with a blaze rather than a general area that may have a blaze. For me no treasure is worth the cold, and my adventures are in warmer climes.

    Starting at a wwwh (unfortunately this one has a dam but aren’t many places I’d consider a wwwh in a venture that would involve the cold, and some other ones don’t have roads nearby; also happens to be one of the first 5 wwwh i’d guess based off only the map)
    Follow it (it is a road in this guess since 2 trips to car in 1 afternoon but too far to walk from wwwh) DOWN the canyon
    to a home of brown (~2.5 mi)
    going <3 mi on foot up a creek where no paddle would help
    heavy loads are pretty easy to come by (water high is a bit of a stretch on this guess but is present)
    ending at a 'blaze' (unfortunately it appears to be within 100 ft of a human trail)
    -neither green nor blue

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