Scrapbook One Hundred Sixty Two…






Forrest forwarded this to me with few words, which is not like him at all. I think parts of it made him nervous.

Mr. Fenn,
You likely don’t remember me but I wrote about a month and-a-half ago to praise you on your book The Thrill of the Chase.  In my email, I mentioned that my husband and I would be visiting New Mexico (for a business trip, which would include a quick search for your treasure, beginning at 32 degrees latitude at the southern border of NM and working our way north.)   Well, we took the trip and, as you know, we did not find the treasure.  There was some disappointment of course — I was secretly certain that I’d interpreted your clues accurately — but that disappointment was quickly dispelled by what we did find… amazing sites and interesting history.  Because of the book, I truly believe that our eyes were open a bit wider and our minds that much more receptive to the stories and histories we learned.  So, although we didn’t find the treasure, it was a wonderful trip.

I write again to give you a bit of an update.

I’ve reread The Thrill of the Chase and Too Far To Walk umpteen times now.

I laugh now when I think back to the first few times that I read The Thrill of the Chase.  At that time, I was enamored with what I thought were the simple, gentle musings of a fellow harkening back to his younger years .  To me it was a collection of amusing stories, life lessons, and inspirational insights.  It was imperfect yet sweet.  Now, I simply think that the piece is genius and calculating, thick with creative license (remember non-fiction only has to be 85% accurate), multiple layers and ciphers that redirect the reader to entirely different end points.  It is not a collection of short stories culminating in one book; it is a collection of riddles culminating in what could be three or four books, depending upon which layer you’re on.  Pictures contain hidden letters and numbers, the meaning of words and sentences are altered by either a phonetic re-read or a reorder or substitution of letters.  It’s flexible and supports unsuspecting readers as they continue down the wrong path.  It’s the literary version of the Butterfly Effect.  And it is the reason everyone has different starting points, different ending points.   It is brilliant… and addictive… and the reason why I question everything I read (hmmmm, I wonder what that’s supposed to mean), why I’ve read Hemmingway and Salinger and why I know that Robert Redford actually has written a book.  It’s the reason I know your Grandpa Fenn’s name and about the YMCA (thanks to my love of genealogy), and the countless other tidbits of information I’ve garnered along the way.  It’s the reason why I may just go for it and search for the “missing appendix” behind the hardcover and binding…

And it’s the reason why I’ve never squinted so much in my life!  My flashlight’s batteries are now dim and my eyes are nearly crossed.  I never used “reader” glasses before but over the past several weeks have found them to be quite helpful.  My rock hounding loupe (my husband and I are rockhounds) is constantly at my side and I eagerly await a new one, which I ordered off Amazon, with a stronger magnification.  Then perhaps I can learn your alphabet (I do know that L = Y, as in YMCA) and I’ll hopefully soon make sense of what appear now to be random numbers and letters and superimposed images cleverly hidden behind the innocent photographs of your youth.  Until I can figure out the alphabet, my “solve” begins by Hebgen Lake and winds up at the Thumb Basin in Yellowstone. Perhaps yet another victim of the butterfly, or perhaps my route will change, but right now it is the path that I’m on.

Regardless, it is a fun ride and I just want to thank you for this perfect puzzle.




427 thoughts on “Scrapbook One Hundred Sixty Two…

  1. IMO, perhaps it isn’t what’s on the map, so much as it may be what isn’t on the map.
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

    • How many of you are going to continue jamming a square peg through a ……

      How many times must the Great Wizard of Fennland tell you to NOT over complicate his work…??
      How many times will you deny yourself that you just can’t see…???

      Ciphers,super imposed images,secret alphabet etc….

      Really Bonnie….???

      P.S. Only one KEY opens the masters LOCK…..ONE Key…..One Person…….O-N-E !!!

      For once I was blind…..Now I see everything !!

        • At least 8.25 miles N. of Santa Fe 😉

          one KEY opens the masters LOCK…..ONE Key…..One Person…….O-N-E !!!

          hint: First stanza is the beginning

          Disclosure: Opinions are worthless


          • Mike,
            More than 66,000 links. Just saying.
            Anyway, you said; “one KEY opens the masters LOCK…..ONE Key…..One Person…….O-N-E !!!”
            Is it your thought that, a word that is key, to be a singular mechanism that is the only way the poem is solvable?

          • Seeker,

            It is my belief that “One” person will see what others cannot. The Poem was crafted by an architect Wizard (1st of it’s kind) .The poem has many doors and windows, which allows the lucky “One” to slip through them . The One will have earned the chest and will understand that he or she is just a temporary custodian of what the chest true value really is……The ONE will also be the One to hide it again .

            P.S. The treasure is the TTOTC……Everyhting else is Just Smoke,MIRRORS and shinny GOLD ROCKS 😉

            GL to the finder……She will have earned it !!


          • Golly who are you the ole coot posted her story she must not be as stupid as u make her look same as u did me Forrest wrote three stories on me and if he were a betting man would bet on me. Ummmmmmmm i dont see him posting about you Bonnie is right on !!! Ohhhhhh and get this the ole coot is a betting man !!!

      • “Amen,” to that last line. The rest of it is a bit harsh. How can you take it so personally that others are not seeing what you see and beating you in the chase? Just doesn’t add up IMHO.

      • Golly who are you the ole coot posted her story she must not be as stupid as u make her look same as u did me Forrest wrote three stories on me and if he were a betting man would bet on me. Ummmmmmmm i dont see him posting about you Bonnie is right on !!!

        • Mirror…mirror on the wall…..whos the fairest of them all….???

          P.S. Six pieces of eight……My money is on the Gypsy !!!! 😉


          Mike out…..

      • Mikem;

        As I reread your post, I can not help but feel that there is a hidden religious meaning to your words.

        We all seek to find that spiritual power that is within the universe. Some call this power God, others call it Allah, and some define it as Buddhism. .. and a multitude of other names. By whatever name one chooses to define this power – This power IS the ONE KEY to all riddles and puzzles in life. Is this the ONE KEY of which you speak? Just a thought. JDA

      • Mikem;

        You go on to say: “The One will have earned the chest and will understand that he or she is just a temporary custodian of what the chest true value really is……The ONE will also be the One to hide it again .

        P.S. The treasure is the TTOTC……Everyhting else is Just Smoke,MIRRORS and shinny GOLD ROCKS

        If, as I stated above, the true value is in finding the religious significance hidden in the chest, this opens up all kinds of possibilities.

        “P.S. The treasure is the TTOTC……Everyhting else is Just Smoke,MIRRORS and shinny GOLD ROCKS ”

        If “I” am lucky enough to find it, I fear that I am not rich enough , to hide it again…sorry, The money would help far too many people for me to hide it again.

        Maybe AFTER I find it, If I do, I can figure something else out, but it eludes me at the moment. Nice to think about though – JDA

        • JDA,

          I wrote something much lower down on this page regarding my thoughts on the TC being wet …???

          Your thoughts please …???



      • Really Mikem? Then what does the Treasure Chest look like when you are holding it in your hands?

    • okay, well i’m not really worried about it, at the moment.

      I was in a great frame of mind, for my hobby, till interrupted.


      besides which, I can always just put my firewall back up, and not check the website, if it’s something on my computer, etc

    • You fine people need to open your eyes, and look at the poem! You need to see
      where the poem tells you to start looking!
      Look at the first paragraph, notice the word ( old ) Then notice in the next paragraph the word ( far ) use the
      letters ( fa ) then go to the next line, notice
      the word ( in ) use the letter ( i ) then go to
      the next paragraph the word ( there ) use the letters ( th ) this so far makes ( Old
      Faith ) now go to the next paragraph to
      the words ( found & blaze ) use the letters
      ( ful ) put these letters together with old faith, and you have Old Faithful ! You have
      the word geyser in the first paragraph. You
      have the names of the seven other geysers in the first four paragraphs.

  2. The rail line is an unusual and striking inclusion on the map. Where is Fred Harvey in all of this I wonder.

  3. Sometimes when you look up you see a cloud. You look a little longer and you see a face in the cloud. You look longer and the face looks like Mickey Rooney. You look at it longer and it”s Mickey Rooney dressed in rabbit pajamas. You look longer and it”s Mickey Rooney in rabbit pajamas riding a kangaroo. The person next to you points at the same Cloud and says “oh look, it’s Judy Garland!”

    • Dal

      am I blatantly immune to the generally obvious, or did you forget to mention Forrests ‘few words’?

      ..just daring to question topics (like Dan Rather used to – RIP) that others may fear to be curious enough to dare to wish to ask, ’tis all.

    • Dal,

      It is a good thing you just disclosed that…….I was trying to Decipher the map with my secret Decoder ring .

      I also think I see a super imposed image of Mr Fenns Great…great ….great grandfathers fishing pole …????


    • Occasionally I forward parts of emails to Dal for use in his blog to add human interest for others who are in the search, but I never would if it made a difference or in any way might point someone toward or away from the treasure. Dal is also a searcher. I am determined to stay aloof of providing any additional clues that are useful. Everyone has the same information to work with. Some few have stopped within several hundred feet of the correct location, and then passed it by. I said in my book that the solution will be difficult but not impossible. If it was easy anyone could do it. Whoever finds the treasure will mostly earn it with their imagination. I have done only a few things in my life that were truly planned. Hiding the treasure chest is one of them. And at the end, the one
      who finds the gold will not feel lucky, but instead, will ask himself,
      ”what took me so long?”
      As Hobbit asked… would you share the few words mentioned? Thanks.

      IMO, At least at the moment, this is another eliminating factor. Although, I do see a word that is interesting nonetheless. It also tells the tale of the Thrill of the chase and not so much the Quarry.

        • Thanks, just read your response to hobbit… gotta love the one word answer that tell so much… thanks for the chuckle.

        • Dal
          Not to beat a dead horse, but I will…

          From the site rule book hymnal…

          “2. Support your quotes. When quoting individuals, including Forrest…make certain your quote is accurate and try to cite the place where the quote came from…for instance, if the quote comes from a video interview, provide a link to the video and provide a time into the clip where the quote can be found. If it comes from a magazine interview give the magazine title, year, month of publication and page number. If it comes from a web source include a link to the page and help in locating the quote (i.e.: half way down the page…) In other words, provide a findable reference for the quote so others can evaluate for themselves what may have been intended by the speaker.”

          Just sayin’…I can’t see a “findable” reference for what you say ff typed.

          • PL-
            I don’t see what you are referring to. There are no quotes in this Scrapbook. There is a paragraph from me and a letter from Bonnie. What undocumented quote are you complaining about?

          • If I may be so bold as to assume that ff forwarded the story with “some of this makes me nervous”, could it possibly be that the part which makes ff nervous is that once again someone has interpreted his poem so as to require searchers look outside the stated parameters (i.e. Outside the “8.25 miles north of Santa Fe” comment). If I recall correctly, Randy was searching outside these parameters as well and that ended tragically but thru no fault of f’s. That may be why he’s ‘nervous’. Just spitballing.

    • Lol! I was wondering why google’s search engine was bogged down…you set off a frenzy. 🙂
      The Sleepy Hollow Bard

  4. Thanks a lot for sharing Bonnie. Very interesting stuff.

    I like how the latest solve flows uphill. Going against the tide seems obvious to me now..

    If there is a hidden index please let us know but don’t say exactly what you found. I want to be surprised when I tear my book apart. Thanks a lot.

  5. A Brilliant piece!

    Thank you Master Fenn!

    I have often thought,… that you have asked yourself, “I am spoon feeding these guys tons of hints and no one is catching on!”

    Wishing You The Best,

    • I think he’s told us in 1950’s lingo that we’ve taken a long walk on a short pier…. we’re all wet…. Thumb Lake wet.

  6. this is what drives me nuts,I don’t know which word to use,as they all mean something different or the same thing,my brain is so fried,i’ve thinked,until I can’t thunk anymore,haha.the reason why,is because I said forrest.not me.

  7. Fellow Treasure Hunters —

    You NEED to watch this video.

    Books are special to Forrest. And, Forrest has some very special books.

    Watch the video to the very end. Once I saw this video, I took a whole new angle at the TTOTC. My guess is that Forrest wants his book to among those “special” Books.

      • Mike Forni – Keep the faith my friend.

        BTW….would you believe when I see the word ‘banana’…I sometimes think of the word….Republic?

        Make any sense???


        • SL,

          I think your IQ is much higher than mine…

          I see the obvious (store) connection of “Banana Republic”, but I’m pretty sure that’s not what you are referring to…

          You make the distinction between “seeing” and then converting it to “thinking”, but I still can’t stretch that tangent…..

          If you “flutterby” banana, you get Annaba, which is port city of northeastern Algeria near the Tunisian border, but I don’t think that’s on point (African Republic)….

          A banana peel splits into four parts when it is pealed looking like a star and possibly referring to the Lone Star State (Republic of Texas), but that doesn’t seems right.

          Unfortunately, I can’t seem to connect the dots, Please elaborate, my friend, curious minds want to know..

          Also — I am very impressed with your knowledge of the Master.. You knew the names of his ducks, I am willing to bet your in Fenn’s inner circle (on some level)…. impressive.

          Glad to Know You! Keep sprinkling your magic. I know you got some more secrets hidden in your back pocket…..

          Cheers! 🙂

        • Mike Forni,

          Ever wonder what it might be like to experience riding in a time machine? – I don’t think aircraft are the only mode of transportation that have been piloted by the Flyer.

          Are roses only….red?


    • SL –

      I KNOW you have identified some hidden words/shapes in TTOTC and (possibly) TFTW. I just need to start talking…. 🙂

      From a prior post, you found sound faint words etched in gold, outlines of figures under the top of the treasure chest and outlines in the map….

      Are you in a sharing mood today?

      Remember, just say NO to dangerous bananas. 🙂

    • MDC,
      If your logic and use of comments is correct… essentially that would eliminate W. Yellowstone, Hebgen Lake area, and many other areas searchers have spoken of. OK… But can you dismiss any ‘clue’ referring to any area not shown, as well?
      The comments you mention all relate to the “location” of the chest… but what good is that if we don’t know where or how the clues work to get us there? I can see how you surmised what fenn has stated, however, isn’t that simply a force fit in regards to understanding the clues themselves, and would searcher not even think about clues in one state that may lead to another state and/or location.

      I guess if we keep an open might to the possibility that clues can be anywhere and lead to a single location on ‘the’ map… named place on the map. But I was wondering if we simply pick a named point on the map because we like a state or something late in the poem might point to a named area, we automatically start forcing things to work.

      Just thoughts.

      • The location of the chest being listed on the map does not preclude the clues leading to that location being elsewhere. I guess it depends on the distance “not far but to far to walk” really is. The starting location (warm waters halt) can be anywhere.
        I really cannot answer your question (nor anyone) until we know what the clues are and how to put them together.

  8. All,

    I felt a need to chime in on this one, because it is a BIG wake up call!

    First off understand the theory of the “Butterfly Effect”, now if you understand its relationship to the following:


    From Forrest Gets Mail -9 on HOD:

    Do expect that people will somehow *know* for sure once they have found the first clue?
    No, many people have found the first clue but they didn’t know it. Until someone finds the treasure they will not know for sure that they have discovered the first clue.


    It is like his mention in TTOTC that his BB guns front sight was off a bit, but he knew how to adjust it to hit his target. The only way one will know they have gotten the first clue correct is once they find the treasure, and that is the rub, that is the one thing that throws everyone off, because we NEVER get any direct confirmation or feedback that we are on the right path and we tend to move on to other solves or theories, thus changing the outcome of our efforts hence the “Butterfly Effect”.

    “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.”f

    “The most common mistake that I see searchers make is that they underestimate the importance of the first clue. If you don’t have that one nailed down you might as well stay home and play Canasta.”f


        • Sorry Diggin gypsy. I’ve been losing some sleep lately and my mind isn’t as sharp. Would that be that you have or have not changed your mind about Montana?

          • You tell ’em, DG: the land of enchantment is the place to be: longer search season, grizzly-less, nice short drive to drop off the Richard Wetherill bracelet with Forrest. (smiles) (Btw, you should probably ask yourself why Forrest misspelled Richard Wetherill’s name twice, and Colombia, and perhaps Navajo, all on the same page. I say ~perhaps~ Navajo since some insist that Navaho is more accurate.)

          • The ole coot mispells because he is easily pleased he aint gotta spell right nothing mispelled is a clue excpet for the fact imagination is more impprtant than knoledge he mispells alot kinda like me Just to tired to fix it haha

    • I agree, Diggin Gypsy.

      I’ve been looking in New Mexico since I first started. A lot of the clues and hints fit there, IMO. That’s all I’ll share, though. I don’t feel like being as helpful as y’all are sometimes.

      I’m guessing that Forrest left with his chest one morning…and told Peggy he was going fishing. He drove to the site…and made two trips in one afternoon. He drove back home…walked in the door with fishing pole in hand…just in time for dinner.

      How would Peggy ever know the treasure chest was now gone from the vault in that scenario?

      The chest could have disappeared just like that in any one of a dozen similar “fishing stories”…from when Peggy saw the chest in the house…until she noticed it wasn’t.

      I’m not saying how far I think Forrest drove. That would give too much away, IMO.

      • You agree? Didn’t DG just tell Pdenver that she is still searching Montana. Read it slower… or what’s a wink and a hehe for?

        • What, OS2?!!!

          Are you telling me she’s being sneaky?

          Ain’t that just like a woman!

          Is November 1st “November Fools Day” and nobody ever told me?

          Nobody told me about April Fools Day, either. I figured it out all by myself…at the young age of 23. :/

          I thought it was really strange that I always got invited to a Tupperware Party on April 1st…but nobody was ever there. 🙁

          All I wanted was some Tupperware…

          Turns out it was somebody’s twisted joke…for YEARS! (sniffle, sniffle)

      • nice short drive to drop off the Richard Wetherill bracelet with Forrest.

        so, how do I do the above?

    • pdenver,

      Had posted some links awhile back regarding Butte, Montana’s “Our Lady of the Rockies Lady” – Lovely story. I see your link, but can’t find mine. There’s another Montana subject below which I also can’t locate.

      Thought that you might also enjoy the following touch of Montana history: (It may take some time to view, yet I’ve wondered if Forrest & Peggy might have enjoyed some of their sweet days of young love and youth at this special place !:


  9. Interesting post. just checking around my notes I ran across an old saying:

    All wet – describes an erroneous idea or individual, as in, “he’s all wet.”

    So, is the chest “all wet?”

    • Something for you to ponder since we are on the topic of “Wet”….???

      Consider the fact the he originally planed on leaving two delicate time pieces(Min. repeater) in TC .

      After he concluded that the moisture might damage the workings of such a piece(s), He removed them .

      Therefore The Chest is not submerged in H2o …..Rather it is exposed to moisture as is everything else in the Rockies .

      Conclusion: If the chest was totally submerged then Mr Fenns would never ever consider placing the delicate(mechanical time pieces in his Chest in the first place .

      P.S. For those of you that are getting your diving suits on EBAY….. I suggest you H-A-L-T……..and Re-evaluate !!!!!

      JDA……Consider this a gift from the other side !!!

      Mike Out……

      • Mikem;

        I guess you have mi8ssed a post or two of mine. I decided almost two months ago that the TC was not IN my stream, but rather on its banks. I had postulated that it was still in an area that was moist due to mists from my waterfall. I now believe that is is a ways downstream from my waterfall, and will be subject to only the moisture that the surrounding hills get from the heavens – Rain/snow etc.

        I still MAY be in my stream, but I doubt it.

        Thanks for the heads-up though. – JDA

  10. Do you guys think this is a real Email or a way for FF to gets us thinking? The reason I ask, is because it seems to put out alot of this ladies solve for every one to see.

  11. I read the above letter once again. After close examination I believe it but was shared because it contains a word that is key. You may not be willing to accept this, but that word is “umpteen”.

    When we have also read both books umpteen times we will also be granted the special knowledge given those who do. 🙂

    • I know. Bonnie said it, not Forrest. She says she has read both books “umpteen” times. There is magical power in the word umpteen. My mother used to use the words “I’ve told you umpteen times….!” and it had the magical power to make us all scatter in different directions like cockroaches. It is a word that is key in my opinion. 🙂

      • my Mum used to say,
        “I’ve told you umpteen dozen times, blah blah blah… ”

        – that’s twelve x umpteen!
        – that’s a seriously angry Mum!

          • Mine did the same and I did the same to my children. All I had to do was give them a certain look and they knew. 🙂 I can still give it to them and they’ll say, “Oh, oh!” lol

      • Bonnie, If you are out there I can save you some time and where on your book if you are really thinking of tearing off your cover… It actually peels of pretty easily… both TTOTC and TFTW… 🙂 I did not find anything hidden below so I thought I would be wise and put the cloth cover into where warm waters halt… the bathtub!!! Drawing a bath drawing nigh! Left is hot water! No paddle up my creek!!!But, isn’t it supposed to be cold? I felt brave putting that cover in below the brown ring in my tub and turned the water to the nigh and ran heavy loads until the water was high… Now I just needed a blaze! My effort was? A soaking wet cover… 🙁 I still really like this idea maybe the blaze is some bubble bath… Or maybe Mindy will lend me some lemon juice 🙂 btw the cloth cover would make a super cool treasure map imho…:)

          • Him? I was talking about the book… But, I did notice that “North of Sante Fe” anagrams to “Forest Fenn oath”. One letter away from bath… lol

        • My comment about tearing off the cover was in fun… joking and drawing light to how many other things I’d mentioned. But, hey, thanks for the info. 🙂

    • Just curious why you think she got within 200 feet of the treasure? She says she just wrote Forrest a month and a half ago. Didn’t the person (or persons) who got within 200 feet do that many months ago?

      • Every searcher thinks they were one of the ones within 200 feet. Obviously most are mistaken.

  12. How would you know DG ?
    Forrest writes in more than one style . Don’t tell me after all these years you haven’t figured out when he is playing a role ?

    • Yea just guessing just dont think he wrote it He kinda has his own style didnt feel it in this i think he liked some of the things bonnie brought out he liked her way of thinking .

    • Hey DG….I meant to ask, did you write your story or your adventure or was it one of your sisters? I loved the adventure but it didn’t sound at all to me like your funny one of a kind personality usually does. Don’t get me wrong, it was written well, I just never would have guessed it was you if I hadn’t seen your name on it and was curious? If so, maybe that’s kinda like with fenn? Who knows I just wondered.

      • I’m trying real hard to remember what I read from way back when and any possible responses given, but can’t quite recall. Was help given before?

        • Gosh, Diggin gypsy. I hope some day you’ll feel comfortable using your description no matter how it is. I love hearing the excitement you give when you post. People can feel it. 🙂

          • Awwwwww maybe ill go on one more search and right
            Another last story with all my mispelled words and all Weather still is good in montana ole man winter is still hiden

          • Also, if you do, please be extremely careful of the bears. If the weather is still warm, they still may be out and about, trying to fatten up as much as possible. Don’t know if they’re in full hibernation yet.

        • I one million percent agree…there were lots of word plays and stuff in the story that were real cool, I’m just more used to all her excitement in her adventure. Both are real “well done thought” it just reminded me of this scrapbook how the first paragraph is totally different than the second, depending on what one is focused on. It’s super interesting how Bonnie shifts perspective. Cool stuff!

  13. If you look closely at the map right at Tierra Amarillo (yellow earth–maybe lots of bananas there) in the far north you’ll notice that Billy Barty is pointing north (you’ll need a magnifying glass to see him, but he’s definitely there) with a raised hand.

    I think he is saying to look farther north, perhaps in Colorado. The number 67 under his right foot (hold the map up to a light and turn side-ways to see this more clearly) seems to imply it may be 67 miles north of there.

    I know that dal posted the map and not Forrest, but seeing not Billy Barty umpteen times in Fenn literature makes me think this might be important.

    • Nice catch! I see the pointing finger but not the number. I compared what you are seeing with the google map and it’s not on the google map! You may be on to something.

      • Depends on what year the Google map is from. Most pre 2014 Google maps are Billy Bartyless– while most post 2014 maps do include the loveable Billy in them.

        • I had a dream on All Hallows Eve and I heard Billy Barty’s voice cleary whisper: “Go north young man, go north”. The problem is I am an old man not a young one so either he’s lying, or he meant to haunt a different searcher and made a mistake.

        • Sparrow
          given your repeated hallucinations of Mickey Rooney riding kangaroos whilst attired in rabbit pyjamas, I think it’s safe for us all to assume, that Billy Barty was indeed talking to you, directly.

          now, it’s a very sorry state of affairs when a man keeps hearing voices in his he(what was that Elvis? ,,no, not you, just talking to Billy and Sparrow… yeah, I know, me too ..ok ..ok ..yep ..righto then..)ad and strongly advise you to seek professional help immediately.

    • Ah, the arrival of November and the beginning of 6 months of discontent, disillusionment, frustration and Looney Tunes. I love Marvin Martian.

  14. Great story Bonnie! I really think you are onto something. I too posted a couple of months back that I put away all of my old research and tried to look at the Poem & TTOTC with new fresh eyes. Using creativity and trying to approach the solve in a more Robert Langdon type style, I have made some interesting discoveries along the same lines as you.
    Wish you the best in your search!

    The Sleepy Hollow Bard

    • Thank you for your nice words. After reading some of the comments I could use them… yikes. Good idea about setting everything aside for a while. It is easy to get tunnel vision. I wish you best in your search too. Bon

      • Bonnie when forrest replyed to your last letter could you tell us what he said. Did he say he liked your way of thinking ? Trying to figure what makes your letter special .

        • Fenngshui,

          Intuitive, yes – Psychic, No.

          Some of the myths behind Constellations can be intriguing. I especially enjoy the following, and perhaps others may as well:

          Orion, Draco, Cassiopeia, Andromeda, Orpheus’s Harp, (Lyra), Hercules).

          In addition; The “EURion constellation can be found on the back of the five dollar bill.
          Five zeros/spots.

          I hope you enjoy !


        • True to Mr. Fenn’s well-known stance of neutrality, his one line response asked if he could forward my email to Dal for inclusion on his blog. He cited no sentence, word, method, or clue that explained why he wanted it forwarded.

        • Perhaps it was a Bell ringing of in the distance. To once again put forth how so many are reading his books Umpteen times, but are NOT Hearing him well or listening good as they are talking about Ciphers and secret alphabets etc…
          To those that see it is more than frustrating.

          P.S. Opinions are worthless

          Mike out……

          • I agree there is no ciphers miike but there is hidden things in the pictures look on the car with kids with ropes theres numbers in the window top left side If i ever solve this thang it will be with my imagination. And stareing at the book for years and actually searching hundreds of times in the woods

    • ..did someone recently mention enlisting the services of a celebrity clairvoyant psychic star?

      ..or was that tomorrow?

      • okay, so i’m curious, “someone” told me, to contact everyone I could think of. which I did. then, the response, is “CED” is “handling” it? Saywhut?

  15. TTOTC offers subtle clues not intended to aid the searcher. I expect that Forrest did not identify many of these until after completing his first draft. Some of the book was compiled from previously written memoir material (I’m thinking of “my war for me”). A painter makes a painting from a place of minimal thought and then the viewer projects all kinds of meaning onto the work and calls the painter a genius. I’m not saying Forrest is or isn’t one. I will say that Forrest is a master of ambiguity. There may be a subtle clue or two in TTOTC that points to this conclusion. This is a good way to avoid telling the truth without telling a lie. It is also a good way to leave your work open to multifaceted interpretation thus increasing your likelihood of being assumed a genius.

    • DWRock: IMO there are a great many hints in the book, and for the searchers that have solved the associated clues they provide valuable confirmation. The key word in Forrest’s statement is “aid”. If a book hint means nothing to a searcher that hasn’t solved the associated clue using the poem, is it really “aid”?

  16. Oh yeah. There is feedback to let the searcher know they are on the right track. The blaze. There are more clues to solve after that.

  17. When you tell stories about your life’s memories, some things must be said or worded a certain way, f had to write things that may be hints to understanding clues, to tell his story, not that I say I have found them, but it explains why hints are in the book, even with him saying they were not intentionally placed there to aid the searcher, it stands to reason they are there to tell the story, so they could be more than ‘ sutle’……. also, I mis spell words

  18. After reading Bonnie’s story, and the comments, I plan to re-read TTOTC to look for any additional hints that are “not deliberately placed”, in case I missed them the first time.
    Safe searching, everyone; if you don’t find Indulgence, may you find Contentment.
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

    • Hi Geoff: I’ve read TTOTC cover-to-cover about 20 times, and even so on each new pass I find things I somehow missed on all the prior readings. I think Forrest spent a lot more time crafting the book than he has claimed. (Didn’t he say he wrote it in something like 6 weeks?) Maybe the actual writing only took that long, but I bet he spent many months designing all the hints that he wanted to work into his stories. I think he realized that the poem clues could be too hard to solve with any sort of confidence, so he provided would-be solvers lots of redundant hints in the book for confirmation.

      • Zap~ Do you trust what f says?

        I believe that f said, (paraphrase), you don’t need my book to solve the poem. Also, that there are a couple of hints in the book, they maybe redundant but still only a couple. He has also said the poem will lead you to the TC. So, IMO you don’t “need” the book to find the TC.

        • ManOwar;

          He MAY have said what you paraphrased, but he DID say the following:, “Here is what I would do. Read my book in a normal manner. Then read the poem over and over and over, slowly – thinking. Then read my book again, this time looking for subtle hints that will help solve the clues.” f.

          I would not ignore the book if I were you.

          • JDA~ Before he said what you just quoted, he said you don’t need to read my book. Later on he realized that that statement wasn’t going to help his book sales and of course he needed to revert back to his old trade– being a salesman.

          • ManOwar;

            Please learn your facts, before spouting jubberish. Forrest makes NO probit from the sale of his books – Period! So, you statement id false!

            Do a little research! Just a thought

        • ManOwar: I trust, but I “verify”. 😉 Forrest has admitted to at least 4 hints in the book, not just a “couple”. In my opinion the number of hints is into double digits, which is not inconsistent with what Forrest has said. He has simply told the truth but not the whole truth.

          To address your point, you don’t strictly “need” the book to solve the poem, but it sure provides a huge amount of confirmation for those that have.

          • Zap~ Exactly, that was my point, u don’t need to read the book. I’m not saying not to read it, or ignore it, just that u don’t need to read it to find the TC.

          • Yes, ManOwar, we’re in violent agreement that the poem is all you “need”. But I still strongly believe that some of the clues (one in particular) have answers that would leave a fair amount of doubt in a searcher’s mind — the sort of doubts that would not allow you to proceed with confidence. The book hints removes those doubts.

        • ManOwar,
          OH radio interview Torg and Elliott: [ listen for yourselves for accuracy ].
          Q. Does somebody need to read your book to find the treasure or do all the clues exists within the poem?
          A. They don’t need to read my book, but they need to read the poem. The book will help them, but they can find the treasure if they can decipher the clues that are in the poem.

          The thing is ManOwar… fenn repeats the “book will help”
          Now depending on what “help” means to each of us, is a horse of a different color.
          I personally can’t dismiss the book, I just don’t use it to find clue answers. I attempt to read the poem as holding what is needed to be known. [ I personally think the poem tells us how to read it. ]
          However, as fenn stated;
          “There are nine clues in the poem, but if you read the book (TTOTC), there are a couple…there are a couple of good hints and there are a couple of aberrations that live out on the edge.”
          “Get the Thrill of the Chase and read it; and then go back and read the poem, over and over and over again. And then go back and read the book again but slowly looking at every little abstract thing that might catch up in your brain, that might be a hint that will help you with the clues. Any part of some is better than no part of any. ” –

          Those are just a couple of comments regarding the book. So now I’m gonna but on my Poem Purist hat… never has fenn stated the book will lead us to the treasure, nor the need to read the book, other than the poem within. But, do you not use the tools given all of us from the start of the challenge? … A book that held the poem that challenge us to… solve the clues. We only had those two items to work with.

          • Ken,
            The only real dilemma I see is, exactly how useful is the book?

            So many times I see postings of 10, 20, even more, ‘clues’ told of in the book. Each chapter, every picture, all the 147 page hold clues or hints… It really gets confusing how we can be so stupid and not find the chest, with all those needed piece of hints and clues. Then , just for fun, lets add 160 plus SB’s … I mean, a quick count here is… we have over 200 hints and clues on top of the poem. And yet, we still have the clues from the Today Show and all the others from after the fact comments…

            LOL… Talk about rabbit holes.
            *You will ignore the poem at your own peril
            *Complacency is the misuse of imagination

          • Dilemma was a poor choice of verbiage…I really meant debacle…or maybe debate. The poem will get a searcher to the treasure and a good understanding of the book should help a great deal.
            For me there is no dilemma/debacle or debate in sight. As a searcher/hunter, I have just what I need to stay content. I love mysteries, and this one has my full attention….
            Seeker, the book is the tool that has helped me learn how the writer’s mind works while telling his stories.

  19. Bonnie,
    I liked the write up. You sure know how to put pen to paper/finger to keyboard .
    Hebgen Lake? I’d like to visit there after……… 🙂
    The “appendix” is real,just not in the dust jacket. Don’t forget to read the poem.Know where to “begin” and where to “sieze”. 🙂
    Good luck to you.

    • Hi Onuat, I believe too that the poem clues continue past “and go in peace,” so maybe you’re on to something. Good luck to you too!

  20. Hi Bonnie,
    Since NM is no longer part of your solve, can you tell us where you visited, and a little bit of the histories you enjoyed learning about?

      • I don’t know, but maybe Bonnie would be willing to share a little about where she searched, if not to tell us where it isn’t, then at least to share a little bit of the joy of discovery that comes with learning the history of a place. 🙂

          • Right…but what’s the difference between her telling her NM adventures than Diggin telling where she searched in MT?

            I’m fascinated with NM, and would love to hear about where Bonnie visited and the histories she learned. 🙂

          • It does seem plausible that those who search in Diggin gypsy’s, or any other searchers’ area(s), are open to having others invited to their search area(s) when made public.

          • Right, and NM is a large state, so maybe the odds of it being in our areas are small, and it would be interesting to hear about their quick trip.

            And you never know, maybe what she learned would help us rule a spot out…or in… 🙂

          • But she started at the southern border of NM and worked her way up. Her quick trip north couldn’t have gotten her much further than Santa Fe, so maybe it would be safe and interesting to hear her story.

  21. Bonnie,
    I am assuming you mean the West Thumb Geyser Basin in Yellowstone National Park?

    Your research took you to a very crowded area of people & not exactly a safe place to hide a treasure.

    Why would you have to pay admission to the government to find the treasure? You wouldn’t & you don’t.

    I’m afraid he probably forwarded this email for Dal to post because he does remember you & you should never underestimate him or anyone.

      • Ya Jonsey & D gypsy,
        Cover YNP with your thumb.
        I wouldn’t be surprised if the beginning few clues are in the park seeing he loved that place when there was no one there to tell him what he couldn’t do in the beginning of his awareness & can see those clues being figured out sitting at home on G Maps, but where the treasure is sitting is in the vicinity of Hebgen lake, give or take a few miles north 50.

        I Think “L” is 50….

        • Well there aint one inch i aint searched around that lake So yall can have had it The juniper bushes i have to say are the hardest to look thru

          • “Generally speaking, there are places where one should stay on established trails; Yellowstone is one.”
            OK, so the treasure is on a trail in YNP?
            No bout-a-doubt-it.
            Ya-Doubt it.

            See DG, you have learned & moved on.
            Don’t faint, he didn’t spell it out yet.
            I am guilty as well searching in the bison, elk jail.
            Hey, I went swimming in his bathing spot in the Firehole looking for it & have moved on. Searched a little of the Madison & Gibbon as well.
            I am definitely over it considering there were way more people wondering what I was doing than the animals.

            We know the general vicinity in SW Montana where it is but don’t know exactly where it is.


      • Maybe her thumb is a thumbprint… to the west of something else. A basin looks like a thumbprint from an airplane. (Unless it’s filled with water, like WGBYNP) You might even see the loop (loupe) lines from the air. But I still like Pulpit Rock. And FF has had an adventure or two around Devil’s Thumb, WY. So many thumbs to explore and factor in –

  22. No, no, no! No new SB! Uh uh! I want Bonnie to come back from her island hideout and tell us about her NM adventure and histories!!! 🙂

    Come back, Bonnie, come back!!

      • Not a code, but who said no codes? Didn’t he say that codes were offered as “positive” solutions? They may not find you the chest because they don’t physically walk. Thus, codes will not find the chest, only the person walking to the chest can do that, but, codes can be used in “positive” solutions. So yes ManOwar I do remember. Anyway, not a code. The alphabet is a form of a code, with your thinking, are we to just discard all the letters? Saying “no codes” will lead noobs to believe in that statement, when it is not a correct statement. Still, I don’t use codes, it’s all in the poem. (Which is a form of a “code”)

      • Sandy, BL as E. So hear me all and listen good= So ( HE are Me) = Some, ALL and L is ten ( good= go odd)= A+L+L+L= 10. A=7,L=1 or A=1,L=3 or A=4,L=2. Go odd.

      • The treasure is not in the box, why would I want to be there? Need to find a way to “read” the poem. Instructions in the words and letters, Sound of words and letters. No matter what you think, there has to be a “number” system somewhere. Cannot get around that. There are numbers. If you can hear what f is saying, and listen good, you’ll find them. Unless you like to play inside boxes, then you won’t hear squat…

    • Hi Charlie, it sounds like you have your alphabet figured out. I bet everyone would love to see if it you’re willing to share.

      • A=7,B=2,C=3,D=1,E=3,F=1,G=3,H=2,I=3,J=1,K=3,
        BLAZE= BL as E, GAZE= G as E, TREASURES BOLD= TRE as ( U are E) S BE O LD = 3 as E, S=O=3, L=1,D=1= LD=2 OR too. W is E and FO, BUTTERFLY=FLUTTERBY= B=FL, line 21=ALL and L is ten (GO ODD), there’s others. The thing to solve it is look at the values, example: A=7. If you move forward 7 spaces from A you get H. 7 backwards you get T. These secondary letters end up equaling each other. T=H=2. Add up the letter values= 80. All from the poem, not a code, values work in all scenarios. Captain Kidd= William Kidd= William Kid 1 = Skippy, Hopalong Cassidy= William Boyd or William Boy 1= Skippy. Skippy= (skip “p”) Y. = Y. Knowlege= Know lege= legend = Skippy. Leg end = foot. So, Y=7′. Y= stick, think Indiana jones, will get your shadow. Use letter values with Wyoming Medicine Wheel, Dr. Eddy’s diagram =
        To X. Dancing with the stars. A bell is buried at X.
        Forrest Fenn= 14 8 = pages in the book. Just a few samples…

    • Here today, gone tomorrow. Yesterday was Day of the Dead, today is All Soul’s Day. Been a busy week fo’ sho’.

  23. Bonnie, his did Forrest know you and your husband didn’t find the treasure before you told him in your second email to him?

    It’s always fun to read about others’ adventures.

      • fundamentaldesign – Zaphod mentioned yesterday on one of the threads that you could find the treasure chest in NM but you would need a time machine in order to do so. I agree with that statement. It would be nice there was a chest located in each of the 4 states in play but alas only one state is lucky enough to hide Indulgence.

    • okay, I was going to send more, in the am, as good as, or better than, the ones I sent. I didn’t send a “second” email to him, unless, you mean, the two diff email addresses. Or, does he get copied on the ones to Dal? So, now what?

      • Hi there. My first email to him was a month and-a-half ago where I said we were going to NM. The only response I got from him was, “good luck”. My second email to him was the long email you read above. He responded by asking if he could forward it to the blog. I said, yes, and here we are.

    • Hi there. I guess my mindset when I wrote that was twofold. First, if I were to have found it, holly cow, he would have heard about it, everybody would have heard about it. And second, I guess that it was me minimizing the confidence I initially felt in my first solve. It was the equivalent of me saying, “Well, I really didn’t think that it was there but I gave it try since I was in the area.” As far as Mr. Fenn sharing my email, maybe it was his way of taking my over-confidence down a notch, subjecting me to the lions. Or, maybe I hit on something. Or, maybe he got up that morning and decided that the blog had been kind of slow lately so he’d send the first email he received that day to Dal, just to get the group going. Who knows? Regardless, I do wish you and everyone success. We’re all confident in our interpretations. My interpretations may be construed too off base by some, but there’s only one who truly knows who is right and who is wrong, and just as Mr. Fenn illustrated in TTOTC, if I find myself too far off the trail, I’m not too proud to back track and let the horse take the lead. Good luck to you!!!

        • No, I’m not. I thought that maybe Saywhat had posted something I missed so I just responded. Or maybe FundamentalDesign changed his/her name. It’s tough to keep track of conversations. 🙂

      • But Forrest wouldn’t have known you have that mindset, that holy cow if you found it he would hear about it and everybody would hear about it because it’s your mindset and you didn’t tell him that’s your type of mindset.

        There’s been plenty of searchers that have posted they would stay very quiet if they found the tc.

        • I’m just fascinated by your story. I just don’t get how Forrest would be able to know your mindset as compared to other searchers with different mindsets…especially since you wrote that Forrest probably doesn’t remember you.

        • I guess you’re right, that others may keep quiet. But keep in mind that since I had no idea when I wrote the email that it would be analyzed for alternative meanings by who knows how many people, my focus was on how I felt and what I was doing and what I reaction would have been. Have a good one.

      • Cheers Bonnie,
        for sharing your brave adventures so honestly with us. and esp for stepping into this gauntlet of haunted gold-less souls that lurk here within ( ..yikes x umpteen dozen – minimum)

        I can almost confidently assure you that we’re not all grumpy biscuits with lemon squeeze here, in Home of Dal.
        ( so, don’t worry about Jake, he’s just directly related to Oscar from Sesame St, apparently …it’s not entirely his fault – I blame that Henson fellow, personally)

        ..btw Bonnie, always attempt to avoid anyone who can’t spell their own name correctly (‘whut!’ ..what?!)

        – signed (sincerely)
        corius hobit

  24. Bonnie, Thanks for allowing f to share with all of us. It’s interesting that you searched in NM and are now drawn north. You made a wise move and will learn much more as you continue on in the chase. You are spot on about The Thrill of the Chase. The stories in that book contain much more than most are able to see. F is clever, but last night I realized that he takes clever to a whole NEW level. I will be the first to admit that I’m still studying and learning new things each day about this chase and can’t claim to have all the answers. Only f has all the answers at this time. The magnitude of the poem and book are something that very few people could create.

  25. Dal, you said, “Forrest forwarded this to me with few words, which is not like him at all. I think parts of it made him nervous.”

    Would you be so kind to tell us those few words? And, what makes you think parts of it made him nervous? One more question, the map, it wasn’t clear who provided the map, do you know if Bonnie had sent it to Forrest and Forrest forwarded it to you, or did you provide it?
    Thanks for any reply.

    • Man-
      You need to number your questions so I can keep track..
      I already answered two of them…
      I think the parts that could have made Forrest nervous are obvious, but if not, please feel free to use your imagination.

      • nervous (adj.) Look up nervous at
        c. 1400, “affecting the sinews,” from Latin nervosus “sinewy, vigorous,” from nervus “sinew, nerve” (see nerve). Meaning “of or belonging to the nerves” in the modern sense is from 1660s. Meaning “suffering disorder of the nervous system” is from 1734; illogical sense “restless, agitated, lacking nerve” is 1740. Widespread popular use as a euphemism for mental forced the medical community to coin neurological to replace it in the older sense.

        • Really Jonsey?
          Maybe you should be sending this email straight to dal instead of posting it here seeing he is the one that thinks so.

          “which is not like him at all”
          I am not buying this either.

      • Dal, Thank you for your response. I should have taken the time to read through all the posts. I guess I’m not bright enough to see the obvious. What may make Forrest nervous is not obvious to me, unless it’s about the part of Grandpa Fenn and the YMCA, ( Is there something there that you know?). The other parts about the books and their levels and ciphers and secret alphabet all not necessary. His poem will lead you to the TC, book not needed and SB62 covers the rest. So, no need for him to be nervous, IMO, unless Forrest told you parts of it made him nervous, then I see can why. Sorry, I’m thick headed.

      • well….. i’m not nervous right now, so you mean, Barty Bart, or whatever his name is, was nervous, while I was out?

        • Oh, it’s Billy Barty. He was a famous dwarf (little person) many years ago. He was actually a very good actor– one of his last appearances was in the “Masters of the Universe” movie. He did a fine job in that movie.

          He died a while back, but his departed spirit shows an avid interest in the search. He often appears on state maps, pointing in the direction of the treasure. You will need a good magnifying glass to spot him.

          If you need need his help, grab a peridot or some Jade, hold up a map of the Rockies and say:

          Oh helpful ghost of Billy Barty
          Lead me to the Treasure
          Point me to just where it is
          If this will give you pleasure

          Of course, this is all just my opinion and it may not help at all.


    • ManOwar—-

      I could be wrong, but garner from dal’s comments that Forrest may have sent the post with the words “parts of this make me nervous”. But I don’t think Forrest ever gets nervous (he got shot down in Laos for Pete’s sake) so it may have been tongue in cheek.

  26. Bonnie,
    Why were you looking at 32 deg at the S boarder of NM?
    Seems like a waste as far searching for his treasure.
    You do know where Santa Fe is don’t you?

    • That’s funny. I really haven’t given up on the route because we didn’t look that much but I don’t mind sharing my thoughts for others to ponder (or pick apart 🙂 For a while, an obvious and common take on WWWH seemed to be associated with ponds or lakes or whatever, probably because of Mr. Fenn’s reference to bathing in the hot springs. I was trying to think of alternatives. So, where does warm water halt? Answer: At 32 degrees, when it freezes. When I looked at a map I saw that the most southern border of NM was directly on the 32nd degree, I was intrigued. Kind of a fun coincidence. The “it”, I believed, was Hwy 25 which runs north/south and crosses 32 degress. Hwy 25 was the route of the original Indian Trial (it)that started in South America (if my memory serves me correctly, or at least it was in Mexico) and continued north to Canada. I’ll just leave the rest of the clues alone but that was my take on it…

      • I got it,
        32 deg is the freezing point of water.
        Highway 25 runs along the Rio Grande then heads to SF.
        I suppose this could be WWWH, but the canyon goes up not down.
        To think alternative may be good but I would think everything else after must fall into place.
        Have fun trying to think different.
        BTW, Forrest didn’t go bathing in Ojo Caliente, he would have been cooked alive.

        • Hi again, down doesn’t always mean a direction, does it? My thought was… down, as in sad, blue, lonely. Relatively speaking (compared to many roads elsewhere) Hwy 25 is a pretty open, lonely road (at least in South NM.)
          I don’t have the book in front of me but I was referring to when he’d sneak out to where a hot spring warmed cool water. Sorry if I misspoke.

          • I guess it all depends on how “down” is used in a phrase.
            You can say, I will meet you down at the bar later on.
            In this case down could be up.
            But when he says take it in the canyon down, it appears to me he is talking about elevation.
            Who knows, maybe the label of the canyon is “down”, but I don’t think so.

          • I can picture him talking to his dad and/or friends in West Yellowstone & saying: Lets go fishing in the canyon where we caught those big ones last week.

            Madison Canyon, Firehole Canyon, Gallatin Canyon, Red Canyon, Grayling, Cabin……
            Ya, I’m stuck near West Yellowstone.

            Sooner or later you guto head on down to WY.

          • could also be read as de-own.

            which, if you are referring to “my” camera, I won’t do.

          • do you mean, to download photos, at the same time, that I have this website open, 2 waterfalls?

  27. The following photo has reached out to me since day one – It may mean nothing, yet, I remain intrigued. I imagine the line across the middle of the animal Hyde on the fireplace representing… the 32nd North Parallel:

    The 32nd parallel was also the proposed route of the Texas Pacific Railroad; and defines the border between New Mexico and Texas.

    It is interesting to note that Texas is the only State in the USA that can fly its Flag at the same heighth as the USA Flag. Why?

    Because it is the only State that was a Republic before it became a State. – Texas can become a Republic again at any time the Voters of Texas choose.

    Texas ALSO has the right to divide into as many as FIVE States.

    Check it out – Some may become quite as interested as I am !?!


    • Mike Forni,

      That “Republic” expression I made to you earlier might make more sense after you read the comment I’ve made about it above.

      Right now, I’m continuing to enjoy researching Boy Scout history. ( Seaton: A remarkable human being).

      Give it a LOOK!


  28. Someone is getting very close and it isn’t Bonnie (sorry Bonnie). I was getting ready to send my “partial solve” to dal and disappear into the sunset like so many others.

    But I came back and read this SB once more. Why would Forrest be forward this? Because he’s “nervous” about what’s in it? Then why share it at all? Maybe there is some nervousness or apprehension involved, but I think it may be from another e-mail, not Bonnie’s.

    Is it yours? Could be. Maybe you have gotten to close for comfort and a little mis-direction is necessary— a little smokescreen if you will.

    I’ve decided to stay in this full throttle, and remain the stupid guy in the corner. 🙂 Someone is getting very close, this is apparent. It might be you. Wouldn’t that be amazing?

    • Sparrow~ You hit the nail on the head! If it made Forrest nervous then don’t send it out for everyone to see. It’s more like Dal maybe nervous because he sees something in Bonnie’s (email) that relates to his solve. It’s in Montana where he searches so he’s a bit unnerved that Forrest wanted this posted- IMHO . It’s not in Montana by the way. IMO.

      • Sparrow~ Why do you think that Dal posted the map of New Mexico and not Montana? Hmmm….?
        Bonnie’s solve begins by Hebgen Lake and winds up at the Thumb Basin in Yellowstone. Wouldn’t it seem more appropriate for him to post a map of Montana.

        • On the New Mexico map Billy Barty is pointing north. On the Montana map I recently perused ( I needed a magnifying glass to see him) Billy Barty is pointing south. Besides all that the ghost of my Grandma visited me in a dream and says the darn thing is in Wyoming, so I’m stickin’ with Billy Barty and Grandma with this one.

      • I agree— not in Montana. Too bad it’s not spelled Moytana — you could anagram anatomy. 🙂

    • ManOwar: oh, it’s in Montana alright. Forrest will never ask Dal to post the emails I sent him because they hit way too close to the mark. The chest will be recovered in 2017.

      • Oh, I’m wide awake, ManOwar, reading posts by people who are so far off in the woods they should change vocations to lumberjack. I’m a member of the 200-foot club, so HOD is mostly a source of entertainment for me at this point.

        • A member of the 200 foot club? I didn”t realize millipedes could blog. That is very cool.

        • Good grief another one…………IT WILL BE FOUND SOON!!!! I’M A MEMBER OF THE TWO HUNDRED FOOT CLUB!!!!

          Seems to happen every year about this time. If you would do a little research you would know how silly you sound. I wonder if Loco has a list of grandiose searchers he has compiled over the years.

        • Goofy: yes, there have been a bunch of grandiose claims over the years, I’m well aware of many of them, and all of those solves were garbage. I’m sure you believe I am no different, and history and statistics suggest you are right. But if someone DOES solve it in the next year or so, and makes similar claims, won’t you have the same retort? If YOU solved it, knew that you had, but did not want to give away the solution, do you see any way that you could convince others that you had? Of course not. No one here will accept any proof other than pictures of Chest in hand, or a post from Forrest saying it’s over.

          • Well Zap the only way I will know I solved the poem is when I have the chest in my hands. I’ve been confident enough to spend the time and money to go look, but I would never be so arrogant to say I’ve solved the poem without the chest.

          • Goofy: of course, you are correct. Nevertheless, I am quite confident I have solved the majority if not all of the clues, and I don’t need to have the chest to know I’ve got WWWH and the blaze.

            Perhaps the greater mystery is why I bother posting anything here. No one is receptive to my hints so it’s apparently been a waste of my time to share them.

          • Zap you’re just one in a long list of geniuses that are sure of themselves, but are afraid to post anything useful that can be discussed so they just boast about how smart they are to us poor dumb minions.

            I agree it’s a waste of time.

            Good hunting.

          • Goofy: don’t make the mistake of comparing me to the poseurs that proceeded me. What evidence could conceivably satisfy you short of me giving you actual clue answers? I’ve already said the chest is in Montana. I’ve said the first clue is in the first stanza and without it you won’t figure out WWWH. I’ve revealed the For Whom the Bell Tolls hint and the Not far, but too far to walk is a huge clue. But you don’t care, and so anything I could say short of clue answers will never satisfy you. ASK ME A QUESTION THAT WILL SATISFY YOU. I submit that there is no such question.

          • Zap you wrote: “Perhaps the greater mystery is why I bother posting anything here. No one is receptive to my hints so it’s apparently been a waste of my time to share them.”

            I just agreed with you.

            It’s happened over and over; someone thinks they figured it out but for some reason they can’t go get it so we have to read cryptic, boisterous, nonsense until they can go get it. Then us poor dummies get criticized because were not smart enough to respond to the cryptic nonsense.

            Wash rinse repeat….

          • Goofy:

            “It’s happened over and over; someone thinks they figured it out but for some reason they can’t go get it so we have to read cryptic, boisterous, nonsense until they can go get it.”

            No, it’s not really the same. Unlike, my distinguished predecessors, I’ve provided concrete evidence of deliberate hints from the book that no one before me has mentioned and that anyone can check for themselves. That should provide some evidence that I’m not drinking my own bathwater.

            But by your silence on the request for a question, I will assume that you agree with me that there is no question I could answer that would make you reconsider that I’m not just blowing smoke.

            I’m giving serious consideration to privately telling Dal the answer to the first clue, and providing him all the supporting evidence necessary for him to be confident it is absolutely correct. Why Dal? Because it’s his blog, and he’s shown me nothing but respect.

            I seriously wonder how you would treat Forrest if he were to post here under an alias and start providing hints?

          • Forrest blogging actual clues incognito would be a hoot. He has probably already thought of that. You can share your first clue with me. I’ve show all respect.
            Good hunting all! By the way, what does “SB” stand for? I’m usually always lost, but in this case I will ask for directions. I have to email Forrest as I have gone alone in that book a second time and thing he may have written portions of my life, too; right down to the Grapette and school stories!

          • Zap I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had this exact conversation; your arrogance has blinded you. You are convinced you are correct. You haven’t provided any more concrete evidence than anyone else has that was absolutely certain they were correct. And when no one responded to your comments you get all upset. So go get it and spare us poor dummies.

          • Goofy: yes, at times I probably seem arrogant to others. When you are utterly confident about something, it’s hard not to come off that way to others.

            “You are convinced you are correct.”

            Yes, of course. Just like all the others that were wrong before me.

            “You haven’t provided any more concrete evidence than anyone else has that was absolutely certain they were correct.”

            I’ll ask you once again: what is this magic concrete evidence that would EVER satisfy you? There is no such thing. Even if I give Dal the answer to the first clue, and he tells you, “By jove, he’s actually right”, it wouldn’t convince you.

            “So go get it and spare us poor dummies.”

            I don’t know why you resort to using inflammatory lines like this, Goofy. When did I ever call anyone’s intelligence into question?

          • There was a song a long time ago, that said, “Oh Lord, it;s hard to be humble when I’m perfe ct in every way”. That may apply to a couple of my friends here. BTY you are all friends as we have at least one thing in common. I do like the idea someone posted about warm water halts at 32 degrees.

          • Obviously that is correct Zap, without the chest there is no concrete evidence. It’s only an opinion.

            Apparently you are saying you have concrete evidence you are correct but don’t have the chest.

            Do you have any idea how many have said the same thing? They have all made fools of themselves, the chest wasn’t there, Fenn moved it, or never hid it, yada yada yada.

          • Zap ~ “ASK ME A QUESTION THAT WILL SATISFY YOU. I submit that there is no such question.”

            I’ll take a stab at the question;
            You’ve been on the blogs for many months talking about the poem. As you said: “I’ve already said the chest is in Montana. I’ve said the first clue is in the first stanza and without it you won’t figure out WWWH. I’ve revealed the For Whom the Bell Tolls hint and the Not far, but too far to walk is a huge clue.” And then tell us it will be found in 2017…
            Why have you waited so long, and still not gone to recover 20.2 troy lbs of gold, hundreds of precious gems, many other valuable items, and an auto-biography I dare say would sell more copies than both books combined. All est. more than a million…respectfully… when you’re positives you are correct?

          • Hi Seeker: thank you for your question. I will do my best to give you an honest answer.

            “Why have you waited so long, and still not gone to recover 20.2 troy lbs of gold, hundreds of precious gems, many other valuable items, and an auto-biography I dare say would sell more copies than both books combined. All est. more than a million…respectfully… when you’re positives you are correct?”

            The short answer is that we did go a little over a month ago. It was an expensive trip because it was done last minute. So your obvious follow-up question is why didn’t we find it? This is where the blah-blah-blah excuses typically get marched out, but I’ll own it: it’s because I goofed. I broke my own cardinal rule (poem purity) and attached too much significance to Forrest’s chapter-closing lines about Captain Kidd and Gardiner’s Island. Poem clues brought me to a specific location that is very close to (but not on) a small island. I took the bait, diverted, and searched that island. It didn’t take long to realize that the location was no good. Too exposed, and too much evidence of foot traffic. And in the end, the location was supported only by the book, not the poem. Late in the day I realized where we needed to go, but the weather was getting ugly. We crossed our fingers that the next day would be better than it was forecast to be, but it alternately poured and sleeted for the next 3 days and we were out of time.

            So I’ve spent the last month looking for more confirmation from either the poem or the book that where I assumed I need to go is indeed the right place. I’ve fairly recently found that confirmation from both sources, so there’s not much more I can do except wait. If I lived closer and a good weather window presented itself, I’d make the attempt. Thankfully, the cold and snow are as much a deterrent to other searchers as they are for me, so I’m just going to be patient and trust that the odds are still low that someone else has solved all the clues. I’m not going to make the mistake of charging back up there only to get thwarted by foul weather. Yes, I know: Forrest has said he could retrieve it in almost any weather, and for this location I would agree. But I should think most people would prefer a nice sunny day for pictures and video.

          • Ha, Ha, Ha, Zap, you make me laugh. You are delusional to the core. Goofy take this guy out of here. He should be ashamed of such arrogance. Over 2 million dollars and he can’t go get it because of a little rain, sleet or snow, and he knows exactly where it is? Ha, ha, get him out of here please.

          • Zap,
            Ok… I appreciate the response ~ I get the whether thing. I’m just curious what would happen when you do go, and again, you happen to come empty handed?

            Here’s the thing, and I’ll be plain as day in my comment… It does get very old hearing the same stories of failures, along with the same excuses. However, that isn’t even the nail in the coffin… it the those Comments that, magically now I have the “correct solve” statements that always follows.

            It is so transparent, everyone who has stated the same has you… now has to wait a year for the prize of over million. So do you see the how other readers on the blog, and from around the world can say… OH crap! another one that knows all, is telling us how to solve it or giving us critical information, but we simply don’t listen… and just wait till next year.
            I mean, there’s a difference between being confident and attempting to rub our noses in it.

            So what will happen when you do go….?

          • Seeker, you asked, “I’m just curious what would happen when you do go, and again, you happen to come empty handed?”

            I’m trying to be thorough enough in my Devil’s Advocate analysis so that that doesn’t happen, but I’m not foolish enough to believe that that isn’t a real possibility. After all, it’s been the outcome for everyone else.

            “It does get very old hearing the same stories of failures, along with the same excuses.”

            I agree with you, believe me I do. But on the occasions when people have finally thrown in the towel and revealed their solutions, I’m always left shaking my head wondering how in the world they had so much confidence in their solves.

            “It is so transparent, everyone who has stated the same has you… now has to wait a year for the prize of over million.”

            Yes, I know I sound just like everyone else. Too busy, other commitments, in the hospital, etc., etc. It does get old, and no one wants to hear it.

            “So do you see the how other readers on the blog, and from around the world can say… OH crap! another one that knows all, is telling us how to solve it or giving us critical information, but we simply don’t listen… and just wait till next year.”

            Yes, I totally get that. I don’t blame people for not listening; the fault is entirely mine for being insufficiently persuasive. People are happy with their own solutions and I think it takes a pretty big revelation for them to even consider a different paradigm.

            “So what will happen when you do go….?”

            For one thing, I’ll be better prepared. I will drive rather than fly so that I have no restrictions on what I can bring with me, and more flexibility on the timing of my return.

          • Zap you seem like a nice guy and by your comments you understand how obnoxious and ridiculous the overly confident searchers come across. I reread your “hints” and didn’t see anything that hasn’t been discussed in great depth over the years. If you want to be more specific we’ll run it through the shredder and see what comes out. I understand you probably won’t do that from fear of divulging too much. You are stuck between the proverbial rock and hard place. You want to talk about it but can’t.

            You are convinced you are correct so any discussion of your solution would probably be very frustrating for you and would lead to hard feelings because it’s impossible for you to accept any constructive criticism.

            Like you said, and many have said before you, we wouldn’t even accept the correct solution if Fenn posted it under a pseudonym. We’ve also discussed that many times.

            What usually happens now is the overly confident, overly emotional searcher starts getting paranoid; maybe he sees someone discussing part of his solution or about his location and the anxiety gets to him. He goes off on a rushed, ill-prepared trip that puts himself or his finances in peril. Things only go downhill from there.

            Hang in there; it takes a great deal of discipline to overcome emotions.

          • Goofy — thank you very much for your thoughtful and balanced reply.

            “I reread your “hints” and didn’t see anything that hasn’t been discussed in great depth over the years.”

            Are you saying someone before me made the connection between “For Whom the Bell Tolls” and BTFTW? If so, I never saw it. And I certainly don’t remember anyone pointing out the surplus of instances of “dumb” in the book, and that the final one on page 70 also has the BTFTW letters surrounding it: “through the (dumb) barbed wire fence”. I also don’t recall anyone pointing out the Border’s/Borders/borderline biddies hint before, nor mentioning that two of the postmark stamps in the book are identical, one of which is the only one on an odd-numbered page. Now, perhaps your objection is with my claims that these are really hints as opposed to just random oddities, and that is a fair point. Without being able to tie them to the associated clues in the poem, your skepticism is understandable. About all I can counter with is that no one seems to have spotted these patterns before (though correct me if I’m wrong here), and the only reason I did was that a few clue answers had given me ideas of what to look for.

            “If you want to be more specific we’ll run it through the shredder and see what comes out. I understand you probably won’t do that from fear of divulging too much. You are stuck between the proverbial rock and hard place.”

            I’ll give some thought to how I might navigate this impasse. I could point out more book hints, but I’m not sure that helps matters because w/o the clues that they go along with, they just look like inadvertent mistakes on Forrest’s part.

          • Zap ~ “Are you saying someone before me made the connection between “For Whom the Bell Tolls” and BTFTW? If so, I never saw it. And I certainly don’t remember anyone pointing out the surplus of instances of “dumb” in the book, and that the final one on page 70 also has the BTFTW letters surrounding it: “through the (dumb) barbed wire fence”. I also don’t recall anyone pointing out the Border’s/Borders/borderline biddies hint before, nor mentioning that two of the postmark stamps in the book are identical, one of which is the only one on an odd-numbered page.”

            2. Maybe not to the extent you have so I’m “dumb” to that fact.
            3. Border n Biddies, sure.
            4. Identical stamps, heck yeah.

            The book has been dissected by many who have read it.. lol.. in so many ways. Chris and Jason are the first that come to mind… trust me when I say you don’t hold a candle to what some have found…if you don’t know who I’m referring, that simply tells me I have been at this way to long.
            With that said, that doesn’t mean your thoughts are exactly the same as anyone else. But yes, there has been much talk about those topic and views/connections you mentioned, over the years… now almost 7 years.
            I mean, that a lot of BSing about the book and the poem….
            Did you know that there is clued sections in parts of the binding and stitches in other parts? I do, I’m sad to say.
            Yep… there has been a ton of talked about the book…
            That is why when you say something Like;
            “No one is receptive to my hints so it’s apparently been a waste of my time to share them.”
            “I’m a member of the 200-foot club, so HOD is mostly a source of entertainment for me at this point.”

            …You’re gonna get some negative feed back. Honestly, I think most have been kind in their response.

        • Zap: ” I’m a member of the 200-foot club”
          Ya, HOD is just full of entertainment.

          200 foot club is how many times you put your foot in your mouth.
          So, ya, you are a member.

          • Zap, Do you also read the ChaseChat Blog? If you only read the comments posted here (Dal’s site) and ignore the comments there, you are definitely not aware of all the hints and awesome connections to words in TTOTC, the poem, solves, etc that many of the smartest searchers have already discussed there. Read the archives of Stephanie’s from 5 years ago. They might be pond scum but you shouldn’t dismiss some of the really great ideas there. You just have to root through all the in-fighting and bickering there to find the good stuff.

          • Cynthia: thanks for the recommendation, and I may take your advice and do some keyword searching there to see if anyone has found some of the things I have. CC was actually the first blog I found following my introduction to the Chase in 2015. I was turned off by the ugliness there, but it did lead me here where the folks are much more thoughtful and interesting, so it wasn’t a total loss. But maybe I was premature in my disdain for the place and should hold my nose and see if there are any nuggets of wisdom hiding in the vitriol.

      • Why 2017?
        If you know where it is you can probably find it any whether. 200′ X 200′ is the size of my dog pen… if I can find a tennis ball covered with leaves branches dirt and grass… what’s the problem?

        • I have a real life that involves many commitments. I live over 1000 miles from Montana so it’s not a weekend trip, and I have other vacation plans that put me out of the country soon. Could the chest be recovered tomorrow? Absolutely yes, and I’m not happy about that remote possibility. But it’s a calculated risk that I’ve accepted.

          • Are you serious? You know where the chest is, and you are too busy to go retrieve it? How many days and hours have you spent on your solve? My guess would be far more than the 4-5 days you would need to recover the chest. I would be re-arranging my life immediately for a recovery mission if I had your confidence. Go for it!

          • zaphod73491,

            ****But by your silence on the request for a question, I will assume that you agree with me that there is no question I could answer that would make you reconsider that I’m not just blowing smoke.***

            You can tell us how it’s hidden, that is something you should certainly know.

          • Me wearing the bracelet is your best revenge. f

            Go get the chest Zap. I believe you got the answers. As much as I wish you didn’t 🙂 thanks for helping me out with how to go about the poem and hints. I just think your to far ahead of me for me to catch up. But im still going to try if your not going to go until next year. Good luck buddy

          • there is no question I could answer that would make you reconsider that I’m not just blowing smoke.***

            Now, what are ya’ll talking about?

          • You better hurry—Forrest is getting ready to move the darn thing one more time. I should know—every time I’m certain my solve is correct he moves the darn thing. I’ve had it happen too many times now to get fooled once more.

        • Seeker …this is all just pure nonsense so don’t burn out your fingers clawing at the key board…Goofy has pretty much summed this up quite adequately. The chest thumpers preceding the latest have run amok then just disappear as usual. As they should(IMO).
          Take a look @ Qui Nguyen…newest WSOP champ. He systematically weeded through a very large playing field of players w/bold play and very few words. Pretty much silent and wearing various ball caps and dark sunglasses. That’s perfect play, in my book.Why would anyone so concretely sure about where Indulgence is want to play around and supposedly toss valuable hints around anyway???

          • Ken, you bring up a fair question. What in the world is in it for me to share hints with anyone here? The simplest answer is that I enjoy helping others, or at least trying to. Not everyone is motivated by greed. Let me ask you an off-the-wall question: Have you ever seen an Iridium flare? If you have, it was because 20 years ago I wrote the code to predict them and shared that code with Chris Peat at Heaven’s Above among others. I didn’t make a dime writing that program — I did it for the shear intellectual challenge. And when my astronaut friend Don Pettit asked if I could adapt that program to give him predictions from ISS, I was happy to do so and in return he emailed me — from space — his many successful pictures of Iridium flares.

            I like solving hard problems, so it should come as no surprise that Forrest’s treasure hunt puzzle attracted me. I also enjoy teaching people, whether it’s astronomy, math, physics, cryptanalysis, meteorite hunting, or a dozen other subjects. I get vicarious enjoyment out of witnessing someone having an “aha” moment when they discover something for themselves that I’ve helped steer them towards. I think Forrest said it well in his book: we are all here for the pleasure of others.

          • All very interesting Zap…and I salute you for sharing your successes in life.
            Greed IS a malicious fiend that worms it’s way into places that it does not belong…I detest greed and the folks who feed on it. So, again, kudos for not being greed motivated.
            All I am saying is that a good player let’s other players play and never shows their cards unless absolutely necessary. Have you ever witnessed butane igniting methane on a hot summers night…in a tent?
            Stay well Zap… and good luck.

          • Ken- I tried that once. it melted the white cotton filter like a gamma burst and we had to evacuate the tent.
            It left no ‘apparent’ trace….yet still a silent but deadly reminder which even my third eye still winces with the slightest provocation of its memory. Good times!

          • Ken, Jonsey…
            If y’all ever go camping with me, please don’t be upset if I use my own tent.

          • @Jonesy1 – I’m just back-tracking through here and noticed your iridium flare remarks. Not bad. I had a nice sonrisa.

            I think I might email Chris Peat for evidence of the other stuff. Ambiguity doesn’t work for scientists, and I am of the opinion we may be seeing a load of it for a different reason. I’ll be curious to know what language was used 20 years ago as I have also followed a similar path in my career with a comparable number of years, probably more. Wayback suggests the site wasn’t open 20 years ago yet. But maybe 20 years is just a figurative number. The elders here on this site, like me, can vouch for the convenience of round numbers.

          • Hi E.C.,

            “I think I might email Chris Peat for evidence of the other stuff. Ambiguity doesn’t work for scientists, and I am of the opinion we may be seeing a load of it for a different reason.”

            This is way off-topic, so for anyone not interested in the history of Iridium flares, no need to read on. E.C., I’m not sure what you’re referring to as far as ambiguity. What I posted about Iridium flares was accurate, and I didn’t feel this was the proper forum for getting into the nitty-gritty of the history of that phenomenon. If you want to contact Chris about them, be my guest. He’ll tell you his code was not the first, and that the equation for predicting the flare magnitudes came from me. Chris is to be commended for creating a very nice web interface that anyone can use, not just astronomers and satellite experts.

            The first batch of 5 Iridium satellites was launched in May 1997, and very shortly thereafter Paul Maley and other active satellite observers noted the unexpected behavior of these satellites. I got in touch with Motorola engineers to understand their CONOPS and the physical characteristics of the satellites themselves. It didn’t take long to uncover the source of the bright glints, and I went to work coding up software to predict them. A month or so later, and within a few days of each other, Randy John and I released separate flare prediction programs to the satellite observing community. A worldwide observational campaign was undertaken so that enough data could be collected for me to develop an empirical formula for the glint brightness as a function of sun-satellite-observer geometry.

            “I’ll be curious to know what language was used 20 years ago as I have also followed a similar path in my career with a comparable number of years, probably more.”

            I wrote my code in Fortran. I don’t recall what Randy’s program was written in.

            “Wayback suggests the site wasn’t open 20 years ago yet. But maybe 20 years is just a figurative number. The elders here on this site, like me, can vouch for the convenience of round numbers.”

            Heavens-Above did not exist in 1997. I don’t remember when Chris’s site first came online, but it was years later. And yes, I rounded up to 20 years; I think my first code release was in July of 1997.

          • @Zap – cool, then it’s settled, and I’ll assume your ambiguity is related to being so confident that you can’t abstain from posting your excitement. God knows I’m guilty of the same, however I’m also overtly more giving in my thoughts than what I see your thinly veiled claims to be. If you want to help, then help. Don’t withhold. As you said, good scientists don’t.

            Perhaps my self interests are a bit more simple than what you suggest is your altruism. I just want this to be over because I want to move on. My troubled brain seemingly won’t allow me to move forward until it is finished, and it has become an annoying distraction no matter how many times I have tried to walk away from it. So then I believe the collective intelligence is certain to significantly reduce the time required to arrive at the solution rather than what my insignificance can produce. Therefore I publish openly hoping it ends soon. Strangely (or maybe predictably for most others), I have noticed that the good majority of this audience seems to be only focused on their own thoughts, so no matter what I publish, perhaps only a lurker or two will silently incorporate. As ya’ll wish.

          • E.C. — Ahh, it appears I misunderstood what subject you were referring to when you mentioned ambiguity.

            “If you want to help, then help. Don’t withhold. As you said, good scientists don’t.”

            Well, “help” is relative. My intent was to help people help themselves, but not so much that I give away answers and rob people of the thrill of figuring out things for themselves. I’m also not so altruistic that I’m disinterested in the sizable prize.

            “I just want this to be over because I want to move on.”

            I certainly hope to accommodate you! (grin) But I’m mindful of the hundreds of confident searchers before me that have all failed, so my enthusiasm is tempered.

            “My troubled brain seemingly won’t allow me to move forward until it is finished, and it has become an annoying distraction no matter how many times I have tried to walk away from it.”

            I know the feeling. I have an obsessive streak, too, and won’t let things rest until they are resolved. Unfortunately, I have a lot of hobby-problems that fall into this category, and I don’t enjoy multitasking, so I go after the low hanging fruit: whichever problem I feel I’m making the most headway on.

            I do think the chest will be found within the next 6 or 7 months, and realistically (and statistically) it will probably be someone that never posts here.

          • Good one, Jonsey! Guilty as charged, and probably inevitable when revisiting a 2-week-old thread.

          • @Zap – then by pons asinorum, that would mean you also worked with SAIC like me. I just sent you a linkedin invite. Nice to meet you, and I didn’t know you’re actually like a real rocket scientist.

            I disagree with your thoughts that it will be someone who does not post here, although the probabilities of the population looking would support your suggestion. I’m a game theorist, and I feel that view of the probabilities is skewed because of how the puzzle difficulty is skewed. I feel we should weight the difficulty more towards those who have been persistent in adaptation. And I also feel it will be soon.

      • HI everyone !!!!!=)
        Long time no see =) I hope all are well =)

        Thought I would charm this idea
        I always am very glad to see another searcher with confidence in their solve of the famous Fenn Treasure. I really just checked in to catch the newest picture of the stuff in the chest.
        -This is coded –

        zaphod – Hi my fellow searcher.
        I like you say Montana . But which do you speak ?
        The chest or the treasure? The 9 are in plain sight .
        A secret to most , but after a while you see them
        if you know how to . =) The first clue is the first stanza.
        But I am sure I have a question that I do not think you can answer. See I know why the treasure is North – and I know what City it must be North of for a fact. No question . Fact – not Santa Fe =)
        Fenn told all of us, but I have never herd any one to this day ever say why on the blog. But there is only one way you would know North . I told a friend something recently to help him in his understanding of Fenn in his solve due to a area we both like and are familiar. He dose not know this information I have -yet.
        But I know how , If she didn’t catch him in 88 we may be reading a different Thrill of the Chase.
        See I know where Forrest was and can track him . Yes I am speaking coded to you and no I will not say anything more about how I can track him on his way to his secret where . See the poem ties the whole way down , hu?
        Im not going to tell you how my friend –
        Nor will I give any clue here. But I can say he had it all figured out. And that f, when he was going to hide it also had two other Items . But then what would fate have to do with it at all then . Fenn said – ” I had it all figured out ” ; ” But the more I thought about him J.D. I mean the more I liked him .” – ” It was my very own story line” – ” Who could imagine a coincidence like that could happen ” – “It doesn’t matter who you are it’s who they think you are” -Qutoes from TTOTC.
        So what did f do , He pulled Catcher out of the trash
        put it on his dest so everyone could see he had read it .
        Now to the question I want to ask . And if you can’t answer well then I wish you luck my friend in your search , and humility through your endeavors observed by others in that -you to hold strong to the things we as searchers hold dear to each other and that is respect .
        The question is
        Who is “everyone” ? Who is everyone he wanted to see
        he had read “it”. Catcher page 1 ” If you really want to hear about it” May be I’ll answer if your correct.
        See I know who they are everyone I mean. Heck I just got back form a search and found a red hankie – right where it should have been . A direct spot very direct. But only through been wise would you know that spot. If you been wise then what are you ? I know … hehe
        I asked someone one day a question that rifles in my head every day due to the answer I was given . I asked
        where are the treasures wise man , and he said where ever you may find them young fool . And then he told me Do you know why wise men get drunk ? I said no , he said to spend time with fools. I laughed . Can you believe that ?
        I was just trying to make a educated joke with him ,
        but in his wiser ways he asked me , Have you been wise and found the blaze ? I told him I don’t know you drank all the wine and stole my clown suit. =)
        The question I had asked you was very real .
        And if you answer that right then I would believe you have figured out Treasures bold and possibly the rest .

        Then agin there is one thing I would love to say ,
        The book is 15 % true , he was careful not to say it .
        How else could anyone write a book . Read it agin he said middle of the page on 15 no need to go on a tangent.
        The ISBN is a clue all .
        Mean math is awesome. Check Digest please ?
        978- Fan fiction which must be self published –
        Of course f it’s and unauthorized autobiography. Fan Fiction writings are extensions on to books that are well known . And all the proceeds are donated to charity , that’s how I know the chest it 100% real .
        But i think If I knew where that Chest is after I have been out over 50 times my self on solves from Montana to New Mexico in Every State I would have got it then Blogged the real solve. Just my opinion .

        Hi again Goofy – Wiseone -Seeker -Cindy -Slurbs
        and all others =)
        God Bless you all
        Mike or Mr. D

  29. Zaphod—-

    I read a few of the posts above. I do want to say that I did notice the use of “dumb” about 3 months ago when I first started. I noticed Forrest use it when referring to not getting the “dumb” fire started, and using the same word in a bookstore and other places.

    Perhaps you saw this long ago though—I don’t know. I did not see “For whom the Bell tolls” as matching up with BTFTW though, that’s for sure. But I just recently realized that “A Farewell to arms” has nothing to do with the Donner Party, so what do I know?

    • well, I don’t know what I’m doing “wrong”. I’ve tried everything I can think of, to “undo”, whatever I “did” that set things “off”.
      I’m trying to “understand” what it is, I’m “supposed” to “do”.
      That’s all. Not cause anyone any problems.
      Oh, and I no longer, know how or if, I’m supposed to “communicate”.

  30. F seems to know when to specifically talk about ‘dumb’ things vs and ‘stupid’ ones….he always seems to get the context just right. I don’t know that it’s cryptic, or maybe just habit of a good spoken man. Then again there may be a couple directions lost in all the stupidity….

    dumb (adj.)
    Old English dumb “silent, unable to speak,” from PIE *dheubh- “confusion, stupefaction, dizziness,” from root *dheu- (1) “dust, mist, vapor, smoke,” and related notions of “defective perception or wits.”

    stupid (adj.)
    1540s, “mentally slow, lacking ordinary activity of mind, dull, inane,” from Middle French stupide (16c.) and directly from Latin stupidus “amazed, confounded; dull, foolish,” literally “struck senseless,” from stupere “be stunned, amazed, confounded,” from PIE *stupe- “hit,” from root *(s)teu- (1) “to push, stick, knock, beat” (see steep (adj.)). Related: Stupidly; stupidness.

    Native words for this idea include negative compounds with words for “wise” (Old English unwis, unsnotor, ungleaw), also dol (see dull (adj.)), and dysig (see dizzy (adj.)). Stupid retained its association with stupor and its overtones of “stunned by surprise, grief, etc.” into mid-18c. The difference between stupid and the less opprobrious foolish roughly parallels that of German töricht vs. dumm but does not exist in most European languages.

  31. I have read the back and forth posts since last night on this thread and wonder why some try to slap others around. I thought this site was supposed to help, encourage, and share ideas. I realize that some might see Zap’s claim of knowing where the chest is as arrogance, but there is also a chance that he is right. A good chance.

    I had what I felt was a really solid solve this year. I will be sharing with Dal so he can post later. I was so stuck on it that it was hard for me to adjust my way of seeing things. Thankfully there are others that are willing to help by sharing ideas and hints that can help searchers like me that need an extra boost every once in a while. I can say without a doubt that I have solved the first clue and that the book has a huge hint that is cleverly hidden by f to confirm the first clue. Zap has mentioned this hint but it seemed to fall on deaf ears. I still have a lot of work to do considering there are 9 clues but it’s much easier in knowing that the hints in the book will help confirm the clues in the poem.

    Zap is a rare individual that is willing to help others in this journey. Go back and look at what he talks about as hints in the book. F even makes reference in 2 videos about the mistakes he makes not errors in his writings. He does that on purpose. F’s MO is to hide things in plain sight through simple mistakes. They are so simple they are hard to find, but they do mean something.

    In closing I think we all need to remember that just because others see things differently or try to help others, doesn’t equate to being wrong. Someone is going to find the chest soon. F even said at one point that someone is going to figure this out. Who knows, Zap, may be the winner. I know that we are competitive but let’s also remember to help and encourage others. I think F designed his chase so that it would bring others together not drive them apart.


    • ? I hope that wasn’t directed at me. I wasn’t calling anyone at all dumb OR stupid. F really does use both words a lot in the book and if you check the contexts of them it seems VERY pointed. Maybe I came in the convo At the wrong time and was a little eager to share something I found cool, but it certainly was not directed at anyone.

    • What usually provokes folks hear me is for someone to make an arrogant statement they “know” something when it is nothing but an opinion. This also confuses new searchers looking for facts.

      For example you wrote: I can say without a doubt that I have solved the first clue and that the book has a huge hint that is cleverly hidden by f to confirm the first clue.

      Your statement is nothing but your opinion, and you didn’t even offer any reasoning as to why that is your opinion. Some find that irritating and nonsensical. Others take it as a provocation or a complete waste of time. Apparently you are so arrogant you can’t realize how you are coming across.

      If you want to have a discussion that’s fine; say something to discuss. Other wise don’t waste our time with nonsense like this.

      • Goofy, I did not intend to come across as arrogant or offend you. It is hard to state things that are factual and then throw the “IMO” behind them because it is contradictory. In order back up my statement I would need to provide some clear cut evidence. I wish I could do that but in this instance I’m not aware of an option that allows me to do so without giving you the first clue. If I did so it would most definitely spoil the fun you have in the chase. When f says that it’s the thrill in figuring it out yourself, he is right. If someone spouts off the actual clue answers it does nothing to inspire others.

        In closing I will say that when f says to go back and read the poem, he’s serious. Something that worked for me was to stop reading the poem and see the poem.

        • Whew! Hear me all,
          You really cleared that up.
          It’s just great to hear someone figured out the 1st clue without a doubt & can’t prove it but they know for sure it is.

          I don’t think anyone could be absolutely sure of any of the clues if you don’t have the treasure.
          There is no confirmation in the books & only hold hints to help you with the 9 clues.

          You guys that think you have it figured out without the chest make me laugh.
          Thanks for the entertainment.

        • Yes, the open palm of my hand made rather forceful contact with his cheek….but, I did not slap him!!! 🙂

        • Hear Me, this has happened again and again over the years. An overly confident searcher is absolutely sure he is correct. Because of his over confidence he loses touch with logic and reality. Seeker posted Fenn’s quote, where he said the only way you can be certain you are correct is if you find the chest. Which is obvious to anyone with any common sense. It’s amazing to me that folks can get so delusional they can’t state IMO. If anyone ever finds themselves in a position of absolute certainty they are in a very dangerous state of mind. At this point all thought processes stop; there is nothing else to think about, you can’t be wrong. This irrational thinking leads to unnecessary risk taking, emotional distress, and very possibly death when you are in the wilderness.

          This has happened many times over the years and caused these delusional individuals some very real problems. Every one of these individuals that were absolutely certain of their solution were in different locations. It is amazing to me that so many individuals can lose all touch with reality these days.

          Just take a look at what’s happening now; you and Zap are absolutely certain you can’t be wrong. Out of paranoia you can’t tell us anything and wouldn’t listen to any logical reasoning or constructive criticism if you did so there’s really nothing to discuss; you are right we are wrong…….that’s it.

          You guys really need to get a grip……

          Looks like I’m going to have to get strict on the IMO thing and start nuking folks.

          • Delusional?? That’s what the nurse just called me. All I said was “The treasure is in Wyoming and I know exactly where it is”. She looked towards the doctor and said “you see, without his meds he becomes delusional”. Then she gave me my number pills. I said “IMO those things don’t do me one hit of good”.

            She just patted my head and walked away.

          • Sorry Goofy, From now on I will state IMO when I comment. I didn’t mean to ruffle any feathers here.

            Enjoy the weekend all!

          • Goofy-san, you speak wise words…but the unwise ones cannot help themselves. Another will come along soon…maybe even today.

    • Jonsey: you’re absolutely fine. There was nothing in what you wrote that I remotely thought was derogatory, and I’m sure Hear Me All wasn’t addressing your post at all. You were simply commenting on the fact that Forrest ~does~ use the words dumb and stupid a surprising number of times in the book (13 if I remember correctly?), and there could well be a distinction between when he uses one vs. the other. I just wanted to reassure you that your post was not misinterpreted, and you are a dear for expressing concern that it could have been.

    • Hear me all,
      Everything you say is very true. You just left out the chest thumbing part… Whether Zap intended it that way or not… it came out has such. I think Zap realizes this now. I’m not knocking Zap’s thoughts or ideas, he seems to be a bright fellow. [ hate to lose another one who went off the deep end, with the I know innuendos. ] Yet, at time we can go overboard with our confidence.

      But while we’re on the subject of “hiding in plain sight”… let me throw this oldie but goodie Q&A out there;
      Dear Mr. Fenn,
      The definitions of words seem to interest you. What dictionary, and year of dictionary, do you use for looking up words? ~ wordsmith
      Interesting that you would ask that Mr./Mz Wordsmith.
      I don’t use dictionaries anymore. I just type the word in Google for a faster response. It’s fun to make up words and play with different spellings. When someone calls me out after noticing the corruption of a word I use, I just smile, especially when I say something that in my mind is correct but in an academic sense it’s a horrible malfunction.
      For instance, emblazoned upon some of the bronze bells I’ve buried are the words, “Imagination is more important than knowlege.” If I had spelled that last word correctly it would not have had the profundity of meaning I wanted. To misspell the word emphasized my point that having knowledge is, in fact, not as important as being resourceful. Also, when I make a mistake through ignorance that ploy gives me a degree of deniability that I routinely need.
      Now I will test you Wordsmith. Write down the full definition of the word “several.” Then Google it and learn that many of us don’t fully understand some of the words we use every day.f

      I like to add straightforward to the homework lesson…


      • Seeker – In regards to the question/answer you dug up from the past. To me f is hinting to us that he does like to write differently and there is a reason for that. Whether it’s to draw attention to himself or to give pause to the reader that something is amiss and should be investigated a bit deeper, he does it on purpose and makes no bones about it. F’s corruption of words are one way that he can use to hide hints. Zap has stated before that hints won’t reveal anything unless a clue has been solved. I would agree with that assessment. I’ve got a list of oddities that are in the book and am waiting until I solve a clue so that I can go back to the book to confirm that the clue is correct with the oddities or hints. The oddities/hints are blended into the stories so well that many might not spot them after many, many readings of the stories. At this point in time I haven’t come across any need to know special definitions for words in the poem. I’m not saying that won’t be beneficial at some point but for now it has not proven to help me. I realize that other searchers have looked up every definition they can find for the words in the poem as a result of the question/answer that you posted.

        In regards to straightforward, I’ve had many thoughts about that since f stated it. I must say that as of now I think f means that there are no tricks involved and you follow the poem in an orderly way. I could be wrong and am willing to adjust if needed.

        I believe that when this chase is solved it will be very evident that a lot of the knowledge that searchers acquired in order to try to solve the poem will not have been needed. I have learned quite a few things that are fun to know but they haven’t brought me any closer to the chest than before I started the chase. Imagination, logic, TTOTC which includes the poem, GE, and/or a good map are the tools needed.

        • Hear me all ~ “Zap has stated before that hints won’t reveal anything unless a clue has been solved. I would agree with that assessment”

          What you say seems to imply a hint will not be known until a clue is solved. I guess that is one way of looking at it. To me that saying a hint is only a confirmation… but how can a confirmation help if we only think a clue is what it is? Fenn has said searchers have deciphered the first two clue and didn’t know it… Maybe the forgot to read the book again…

          “There are hints in my book that will help you with the clues, but a clue will point you toward the treasure chest and a hint will just help you with the clues, if you can understand that.”

          What am I not understanding? I see this comment saying a hint will help with a clue, and not so much a hint will confirm a clue once the clue is solved.
          As much as I can’t stand the term ‘confirmation bias’ … The ‘Zap comment’ posted above and you agree with, sounds like confirmation wannabe.

          So seriously, How do you or anyone else, expect others to take what you say seriously?
          Do you see why questions for examples are asked for?

          Look, I’m not bustin chops here, I’m trying to understand bloggers and their postings to see what sparks a thought of my own. But I’m not getting how a hint works in the way you guys see it. Especially after reading what fenn states about how a hint works.

    • Hear this Hear me all, You said:
      “I can say without a doubt that I have solved the first clue and that the book has a huge hint that is cleverly hidden by f to confirm the first clue.”

      Forrest says: “Until someone finds the treasure they will not know for sure that they have discovered the first clue.”

      I’m not hearing you…..

      • Maybe “treasures bold” IS the first clue. The other night being the other 8 words that liken the same. I.e. riches, gold, cold, trove, secret, put in, loads, and chest.

        • Jonsey1 – IMO Treasures Bold is not the first clue. Sure it’s in plain sight but it’s not hidden. IMO.

    • I think my solve is still a good solve because it uses the prevailing context of the entire poem and figures of speech concurrently. Parenthetically, I believe the TC site will be concluded in the future to have significant geological and paleontological significance. I don’t know exactly to what degree FF is aware of this significance but I suspect he has at least one handle on it.

      • mensan_fennsan,
        “I think my solve is still a good solve because it uses the prevailing context of the entire poem and figures of speech concurrently.”

        You make for a great politician.

  32. My criticism of Zap is his arrogance not his ideas or hints on the poem. In fact he is one of the few who can spell and express his ideas well. If you would just be a little more humble, Zap, I think people will start to listen to you.

    • ManOwar – I have read back through many of my posts and you (and Goofy and others) are right that in written form a number of my comments can come off badly. If you knew me personally as my friends and colleagues do, arrogance is not a word that would come to mind when listing my faults. Tone is not easy to convey in typing, especially when emoticons don’t seem to work here. (I would rather that a semicolon-dash-close parenthesis was simply preserved as-is rather than getting converted to something that either resembles Arabic, or is some incomprehensible box with illegible numbers inside.) I’m not sure it’s possible to express confidence and humbleness simultaneously in written form. Nevertheless, I will make an effort to be more circumspect in the future.

      • Hey Zap, in your line of thinking, you said that the key-word from 1st Stanza gave you wwwh. Does it also confirms your NF, BTFTW?

        • Oz10: that was the compelling part for me. The three were mutually confirming: first stanza keyword supports WWWH which leads to NF, BTFTW. It’s a proximity issue: the locations are all close to one another, and so the risk of coincidence is pretty low, especially when everyone knows Forrest has spent a lot of time in this area.

      • I don’t often use emoticons Zap, but there are some that should work in wordpress.

        This is a test:
        🙄 😆 😳 😎 🙂 🙁 😛

      • Thanks Zap. That’s interesting. I read your comments on the 9 clues section regarding For Whom The Bell Tolls and it does seem like it was ‘deliberate’ placed there in the book for a reason.

        I decided not to read the book yet to avoid further ‘confirmation bias’ but I wonder now, if I come across with a hint like that how will I make sense of it. I get it that the first letters match, not in order but they are the same, and his next book is also name after it, and all that just to hint that is a major clue? Is it the most important clue now?

        Is the rest of the clues or some others the same as that one, confirming in fact that this is the way to go? Anything else there goes by initials, clues or hints? And the actual stories in ‘a farewell to arms’ or ‘for whom the bell tolls’ not important?

        What about ff comment when someone asked him which clue is the important one needed to find the chest he said ‘the last one’ in other words the full baked cake.

        In my opinion, this has been the biggest challenge for me and possibly for many others to try and decipher the full idea before reaching for the map. It happens regularly that a new meaning to a word or a phrase pops up and immediately waste the next 30 minutes looking in google earth. The thrill of the chase…

        Are you confident that you have identified all 9 clues and can move with confidence? In your comment above, it seemed like you are not too confident about your home of Brown or is it just not important to your solve? It does seem like a big identifier or check point of some sort within the poem.

        • Hi Oz10: “I decided not to read the book yet to avoid further ‘confirmation bias’ but I wonder now, if I come across with a hint like that how will I make sense of it.”

          I think Forrest intended it to work the other way around: that you will first come up with what you think is the answer to a clue, and then you could check the book to see if you could find any confirmation that you were right. There is always the danger of confirmation bias, as you pointed out: given sufficient time, people can find patterns in almost anything.

          “I get it that the first letters match, not in order but they are the same, and his next book is also name after it, and all that just to hint that is a major clue?”

          5 letters, not in order, is not exactly a slam dunk. TTOTC is a long enough book that finding those five letters at the beginning of five consecutive words would not be unusual, especially given that “T” and “W” are common starting letters for words. But they weren’t just any five consecutive words, were they? It was a complete novel title. That starts to make it more interesting. But the kicker is that it’s the *wrong* novel title. Yes, a cynic could still chalk it all up to coincidence, and they are welcome to that opinion.

          “Is it the most important clue now?”

          As you mention later in your message, Forrest has said that the most important clue is (not so surprisingly) the last one. If you believe NF, BTFTW is a clue, for it to be the most important one would then mean it would have to be the last one. While anything is possible, given this appears so early in the poem and Forrest has said the clues are in order, it doesn’t sound likely, does it?

          “Is the rest of the clues or some others the same as that one, confirming in fact that this is the way to go?”

          I’d like to give you an answer, Oz10, but the vocal consensus here is that I’m wrong and even if I were right, nobody would want to hear it.

          “In my opinion, this has been the biggest challenge for me and possibly for many others to try and decipher the full idea before reaching for the map.”

          If I can give you one strong bit of advice, don’t hold off on looking at maps. The right map holds the answers to all of the clues. In fact, this may be one of the most important quotes from Forrest:

          “I would like to reiterate: Please go back to the poem and look at maps for your answers.”

          Unless you have a “comprehensive knowledge of geography” or a photographic memory, I see no way that you can construct an end-to-end solve without consulting a map ~during~ the process. The map is not optional — IMO it is every bit as important as the poem.

          “Are you confident that you have identified all 9 clues and can move with confidence?”

          Enough so that I’ll invest the time and money to go back. I don’t know precisely to the meter where the chest is or how it is concealed but the region to search is manageable.

          “In your comment above, it seemed like you are not too confident about your home of Brown or is it just not important to your solve?”

          I’ll just say that my apprehension about my home of Brown was well-placed, but I have since resolved that problem.

          Best of luck to you in your poem and map sleuthing!

          • Zap: I’ll just say that my apprehension about my home of Brown was well-placed, but I have since resolved that problem.

            Watch out for twisting hints to fit your spot. Other than that good luck to you too and post your solve after you find it or not.

  33. Hmmm….I don’t exactly know how to express this thought simply but hope a few can understand at least….if F said he knows some searchers have been within two hundred feet. And then qualified “know” by saying ‘because they told him in emails’…..isn’t that like saying searchers have told HIM that they’ve been within 200 feet? As far as basic logic is considered it seems on could certainly make a proof out of it.

    For example he could say “I know that Pam and Tom BOTH found the spot. I know this because they both told me in emails”

    Im not saying that this is necessarily the case, however considering he said he’d never say anything that gives a clue I tend to look into logical proofs to many of his words and generally one could set the equation in a manner that it really does say nothing while saying something all the same. This could be the case here too….maybe I’ll email him I found the box and there was a mummy hand on top….and then I can say F knows I found it and there’s a mummy hand in there because I told him it was and sent him a picture in an email. See how that can become a slippery slope?

    I dunno…his words are funny (as in distracting) like that in my opinion.

    • *additionally, if there was a mummies hand part in there..and it belonged to him…he could say that ‘his bones’ were what he wanted to rest forever with the chest…..again NOT saying it’s the case….just sayin depending on context the entire proof of an equation can change.

  34. I’m giving up on my Billy Barty induced hopes. I really need thought I saw him on those maps pointing gleefully towards thebTreasure. By I took a nap this afternoon and Billy, Jimmy, and Tail end Tut visited me in a dream.

    They walked towards me– Billy Barty, Jimmy Stewart, and King Tutankhamen. Tut has a club foot, so he was limping behind in the rear.

    I was born so happy to see them! I immediately cried out “Please do tell me kind sirs where the Treasure is buried!!??”

    And they all pointed in different directions. And Billy was laughing the loudest. It was a terrible dream. So from now on I am sticking just to the poem, because IMO that’s the only way to really locate the Treasure.

  35. if forrest told someone to go back to the first two clues Would that mean he got the first 2 right i need some input ?????

          • Oh, OK. Well, if that’s the case, maybe he was nicely telling them that someone already got the first two clues a year before, so they need to catch up. If two clues were already solved, and the person he’s emailing doesn’t have them, they’re two clues behind, not just one.

          • Im confused this story of stephan says it was 2012 But i think it was 2013 Because i rem i was searching in july 2013 and thos story came out after about my third search because i wrote my sister and told her we didnt need a tool. Have they gotten the year wrong on stephans story

          • No idea, Dal or Goofy might know. I only commented because you said Sep 2013 and I remembered the similar statement (presumably) from Sep 2012.

            Good luck!

          • Yea wierd dal where are u this story came out in 2013 not 2012 How can we find the story before this one ?

          • It was 2012 i must of just saw it after inwas searching. So people in 2012 searching got two clues right. There couldnt of been to many people searvhing back then around june and july of 2012 everyone who was in 2012 and wrote forrest back then inwould go hummmmm

          • Diggin’ Gypsy: that someone or several someones had 2 clues right in 2012 and yet in 2016 Forrest is still not sure if anyone has 4 clues right suggests that clue #3 is a doozy.

    • Thank you for responding, Diggin gypsy. I think the answer could go either way. It may mean the person got the first two clues correct, but the third was not. It could also mean that the person wasn’t correct and all and to go back. It’s really difficult to truly understand what the comment truly meant.

      • Just seems to me he would of said go back to the first clue not clues If this person was wrong just wanted others input thank u pdenver

  36. Diggin, Did this person who received this email ever go back to the beginning of their search area and search again? Is this person still actively searching, I mean, botg?

  37. Take heed folks! You need to know where to start searching, according
    to what Forrest has instructed in the poem. Notice in the last line of
    the first paragraph ( old ) Notice in the second paragraph, line three,
    the word ( far ) use the letters ( fa ) notice line four, use the ( i ) in the word in. Notice paragraph three first line, use the ( th ) in the word there.
    You have now ( Old Faith ) Now notice the paragraph four line one.
    Use the letters ( ful ) out of the words, ( found & blaze ) Now you have the area to start looking! Old Faithful ! The hot water runs into the canyon, or Firehole River,and it runs down. Do you think this could be
    right? Old Faithful is a geyser. Notice the first three paragraphs. I will
    go down line by line to make the word geyser. Gone, ( g ) & ( e ) canyon
    ( y ). it’s ( s ) below ( e ). there. ( r ) You have the word geyser!
    There are eleven more geysers there. Look on Google maps, you can find every one of the geysers names, looking down the poem.

    • That method of analyzing/interpreting the poem is too complicated/cryptic, in my opinion.

      • Frankly, I can’t make heads or tails of why particular words or letters are being chosen in this method. For example, why the last word of the first stanza? Why the word “far” in the second stanza, and why just the first two letters? It seems like totally arbitrary pattern matching to me, but perhaps that is simply because I don’t grok the method.

        Since I have no idea what is going on here, I cannot offer any evaluation. And if this is the correct method for finding Indulgence, I doubt I will be the one to find it.

  38. All,

    “If you don’t know where you are going any trail will take you there.”

    The butterfly effect, if you don’t know where to start, any trail will lead you to nowhere the treasure is.

    Again the first clue is not warm waters halt, it is where.


      • I take his response as you have to know every clue, Not just one. To me at least, it doesn’t sound like he is saying it’s the first clue.
        I’m on the line of think the first stanza will tell you where warm waters halt. Or else your just shooting in the the dark trying to guess WWH or what it even means.

        • It would seem logical we have to know all the clues although if we know the last clue it may be game over but next to impossible I would think.

          It does not seem he is saying WWWH it is the 1st clue but then again you never know. I think he is making it pretty clear that the whole string “where warm waters halt” is something we need to figure out where this is.

          We are all just shooting in the dark but I think he has let us know a few clues.

      • Jake,

        Forrest always refers to “where” warm waters halt never “what” warm waters halt are, so the first clue IMO is the where, figure that out and the what warm waters are may become more apparent.

        Again, warm waters halt is not the first clue, where is.


  39. So I’ve Finally Fennished catching up on all the SBs. I apologize for the length of this post, but I want to say a few things related to 2 or 3 posts in this thread that I sincerely hope you folks will consider.

    Bonnie – thank you opening my eyes to something I totally missed. As the Brits like to say, brilliant! Darn, riddles have never been my forte and your astute observation proves my point. An embarrassing and humbling experience.

    Sam – When I first became involved in the Chase back in August, Old Faithful floated right to the top of my list of potential spots, but for different reasons than yours. I could make the poem fit a “solution” but something was missing, it just didn’t feel right. I finally concluded I was forcing it to fit. It simply was not a good, natural fit.

    So that being said, using your method I suspect I could justify almost any starting point I want to justify. It might be in the first stanza, but I’m not seeing it there yet. So for the time being I’m staying with WWWH.

    I decided it was time to move on, hoping something would manifest itself.

    Key word – Sam, please remember this. “Many are giving serious thought to the clues in my poem, but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key. – f”

    My interpretation is that he is referring to a single word, not bits and pieces of searcher selected letters of words in the poem. I think I have found that word as it has severed me well by first opening an important door, ultimately opening many subsequent doors. This has in turn led me to a a much better understanding of what I believe are the two enigmas behind the Chase. Kind of Yin-Yang so to speak. The poem and the underlying thought behind it.

    Butterflies – IMO – Butterfly Effect… Butterflies…for sure. You just need to figure out what kind. I suspect f will know.

    Unorthodox approach – so I have tackled this adventure differently than most other searchers I suspect after finding what I think is that key word. Call it an ah-ha moment. Like “of course”, duh, etc. That’s when I decided that for me it was no longer related to Old Faithful and my Chase began a new life. I found things fitting the poem well, and once convinced I was on the right track I’d go to TTOTC for confirmation my rationale was sound. That approach seems to be has serving me well and I plan to continue using it until I’m convinced otherwise.

    The BIG Setback – then today I had a monumental setback. Not in terms of my Chase philosophy, but in terms of my research. I am using iPad Pro Notes for like 75% of all my research and inadvertently fat fingered the trash can and was simply stunned to discover my note had been deleted and may not be recoverable. I actually broke down and cried because I have a very poor memory and as a result, my notes were very detailed. For example, just yesterday I found a direct tie to 49, but for the life of me I cannot remember what it is.

    I’m working with Apple to see if something can be done, but I’m not optimistic. If there’s any good news, it’s that of that 75%, only about 30% is directly related to my current solution. Regardless, that one note contained a hoard of almost irreplaceable tidbits, interesting gadgets and unique photos I ran across. I estimate a 800 hours were lost, but at least I still have the fundamentals of my solve embedded in the trap door of mind, broken spring and all.

    Ω & ΩΩ – I may be wrong, but I believe they are directly related to each other AND to WWWH. I am also of the opinion Ω has a personal meaning to f, but I’m not sure about how ΩΩ might tie back to him.

    Happy New Year Everyone and again, I apologize for the length of my post.

  40. Thanks Dal for posting this email from ‘Bonnie’ that she had sent to Forrest.
    I know I’m about two months late posting on this SB (scrape book) thread but at the time this came up I’d decided to do like FF and lay off the blogs/emails for a spell and was busy doing something else that had me out in the woods.

    One night I was watching the stars and seeing jets vs satellites and I noticed once in a while a bright flare up or flash and now thanks to Zap and all the head butting going on here I’ve learned what it was I saw, I guess I’ve seen ‘Iridium flares’! Wondering if Zap knows about the Green Flash too, but you have to be near the water at sunset.

    Anyhow, off topic but just now getting caught up and don’t understand why FF would request this email to be posted as he doesn’t normally aid searchers and this seems like a big bone being tossed to the the MT camp, IMO? I’m confused as to what does YMCA have to do with anything? I’m still not a believer in hidden codes as codes can be cracked.

    I do see hints or what I feel are hints in the stories and they pretty much scream MT, things like the map of Gallatin NF would have come in handy latter (pg 60 TTOTC), or he had his hand on the Guillotine pg. 90 (French word) and lots of minor directional hints, possibly all rabbit holes for my vivid imagination . Maybe a good map would be the ones in Journal of a Trapper. Anyhow, just sharing so as not to be accused of being a lurker, lol!

    Cholly pronounced Cha Lee not C holly! lol! Best to all for a great New Year.

    • Greetings Cholly!

      “One night I was watching the stars and seeing jets vs satellites and I noticed once in a while a bright flare up or flash and now thanks to Zap and all the head butting going on here I’ve learned what it was I saw, I guess I’ve seen ‘Iridium flares’!”

      Could very well be! In the future, if you tell me the date and time and where you observed it from, I can tell you if it was an Iridium satellite, and if so, which one.

      “Wondering if Zap knows about the Green Flash too, but you have to be near the water at sunset.”

      I’ve seen my share, and yes — sunset over the ocean provides the best prospects. I’m betting Dal has seen quite a few given his favored Pacific Northwest locale. I witnessed my first green flash off the Oregon coast about 15 years ago.

      “…I do see hints or what I feel are hints in the stories and they pretty much scream MT, things like the map of Gallatin NF would have come in handy latter (pg 60 TTOTC), or he had his hand on the Guillotine pg. 90 (French word) and lots of minor directional hints, possibly all rabbit holes for my vivid imagination .”

      Cholly: you are EXTREMELY observant! I have never shared the Guillotine hint here (because I thought it was too important), so IMHO you have clearly demonstrated the right sort of skills (“attention to detail”) to tackle Forrest’s puzzle. Keep working down that path — you are ahead of the game.

      • Thanks Zap, can I email you date/time and local of my suspected Iriduim? I’m chollyq AT yahoo and thanks to Bonnie and everyone else. If not for Dal’s Blog I wouldn’t have anyone to discuss Chase ideas with.

        • Dal thank you for posting Bonnie’s letter to Forrest! With all the ideas shared on your wonderful blog I’m sure that it’s just a matter of time before someone will be able to fit all of the pieces into the puzzle and come up with the winning solve. The “collective mind” is a powerful thing and as Forrest stated in his “rules” video that Jake recently shared, no man stands alone(paraphrased). I’m sure that the person who figures this thing out will owe a debt of gratitude to you and many who so selflessly share ideas here.
          Cholly and Zap,
          Once again I’ve learned about something I didn’t know about before with “iridium flares”. Can’t say I’ve ever seen one but now I know to look! Never witnessed the “Green Flash” either but not for lack of trying.
          Cholly, I’m just like you with not having anyone else to discuss chase ideas with outside of Dals blog! So once again, thanks Dal and everyone else!

  41. “(remember non-fiction only has to be 85% accurate),”
    I’m not sure where you got that as Forrest never said that. Well, actually the preceding is only half true; I am sure where you got it, but it is not true that Forrest ever said “non-fiction only has to be 85% accurate.” I’ma go out on a limb here and state that of all the things Forrest would like attributed to him, the myriad misquotations are not among them.

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