Scrapbook One Hundred Sixty Three…




Remember the story titled “The Everlasting Forrest Fenn” that appeared in the California Sunday Magazine last summer? The writer, Taylor Clark, visited Santa Fe early in 2016 to interview Forrest. After he wrote the story and his editor approved it for publication it went to a “fact-checker” whose job is to make sure the purported facts in the story are true and not simply the imaginative construction of the writer. So, the fact checker must contact someone who can authenticate the facts in the story. In this case that was Forrest.

California Sunday Magazine comes inside the Los Angeles Times and San Francisco Examiner every Sunday, so potentially, a few million eyeballs browse the colorful, photo essay stories they publish.

I was perusing my files and ran across the following note from last May.  I thought you’d find it interesting. Below is the fact-checker’s questions about “facts” in the story and Forrest’s factual replies. Do a little fact-checking on your own. Compare what Forrest wrote to what was actually written in the story. What do you think?

The California Sunday Magazine story is on our Media Coverage page on this very blog…
Look about three links down..


The cancer in your kidney was in more than one spot? 
It was under my kidney embedded in the inferior vena cava, which is the vein that takes blood from the lower body back to the heart. There was just one spot

Your cancer was removed in 1988? 
My kidney was removed in 1988 and also the cancer.

You were shot down in an F100 over Laos? What happened? How did you survive that?
I was shot down twice in the F-100. The first time was in south Vietnam and the second time in Laos. I crash landed the first time on a small airstrip and walked away. The second time I parachuted into the jungle and was picked up by a helicopter the next day.

You’ve searched for artifacts in deserted canyons?
Deserted canyons is not a good phrase. I have looked for artifacts in the mountains and deserts of New Mexico, Wyoming and Montana.

You’ve sold moccasins to the Rockefellers and sculptures to the Spielbergs? 
Yes, I sold antique Sioux moccasins to Peggy Rockefeller and Charlie Russell sculpture to Steven Spielberg.

Two years before you were diagnosed with cancer, your father was diagnosed with advanced cancer?
Yes, my father had terminal pancreas cancer.

And he took a handful of pills after he was diagnosed?
My father was given 6 months to live and 18 months later he took 50 sleeping pills

When you talked about facing death, you expressed that you’d rather die alone, but with dignity, and at first, you thought you might take sleeping pills at the site of your treasure? 
Yes, since I was told I was going to die I wanted to do it on my own terms as my father had done.

So it would be fair to say that you sort of see this as a dignified way to go out, rather than sort of dying slowly?
I saw my alternative as being a hospital bed that would offer a temporary postponement with a hose in my nose, tubes down my throat, and needles in my arm. And with friends and relatives watching and crying. That was the last thing I wanted.

Initially, you weren’t really sure how you’d want to die?
I don’t understand that question. If I had my way I would die under a tree somewhere deep in a pine forest and let my body go back to the earth.

But then one night you were lying in bed when you got the idea for hiding the treasure chest and then leaving behind a poem. Correct? 

But then the whole scheme was a disappointment because the cancer treatment fortunately ended up working?
Yes, I got well and ruined the plan.

However, you still liked the idea of hiding a treasure, so you stuck with that part of the plan?

The hidden treasure includes Ceylon sapphires and Alaskan gold nuggets the size of chicken eggs?
Yes, two nuggets weigh more than a troy pound each, and hundreds of smaller ones. There are two Ceylon sapphires, hundreds of rubles, 8 emeralds and lots of diamonds.

And while some of the things included in the treasure came from your own collection, you bought some of the things to add to the chest?

Even your wife didn’t know when you buried the treasure, correct? 
I have never said I buried the treasure so please don’t say that. I hid the treasure, but that does not mean it is not buried. I just didn’t want to give that as a clue. My wife’s name is Peggy.

You hid it in 2010?
I have never pinned it down that close. I just say I was 79 or 80 when I hid it.

It took you two trips from your car to get all of the treasure to the hiding spot because it weighed 42 pounds? 

So you were 80 then?
I was  79 or 80. I have a reason for not wanting to give an exact date.

And you kept  what you’d done completely secret? 
What I have done is no secret at all. My book describes it. The hiding place and when I hid it are secrets. I am the only one who knows where it is.

And even your daughters didn’t find out until you published your autobiography?
Yes, but I call it a memoir.

How long did it take you to refine the poem included in your autobiography? 
I worked on it for 15 years, changing and rearranging words.

You originally had 1,000 copies published?
Yes, because I didn’t think anyone would want my book.

And you’ve now sold around 20,000 copies?
I gave the books to the Collected Works bookstore in Santa Fe, and they sold them. I have made no money and have not sold any of the books personally

And you gave rights to your book to Collected Works because you didn’t want to be accused of doing this for the money? Is that correct?
No, I did not give the rights or the copyright away. I gave only the books. I didn’t want anyone to say the hidden treasure is a hoax for me to make money on the book.

But the treasure is worth a lot of money, correct? 

So that would be funny if people accused you of trying to make money off of this. 
You are correct. I didn’t even get my publishing costs back.

You added to the gallery a brick-laid plaza, a gold-fixtured guesthouse and a sculpture garden with a scenic pond, correct?
The brick plaza is part of the big guest house. There were 3 other guest houses and the pond has 2 waterfalls.

And you did that by hand? You did that yourself?
No, I had contractors do it for me, but I helped.

And the pond once housed two pet alligators, Elvis and Beowolf? 
Yes, but the name is Beowulf, not Beowolf.

Did you self-publish The Thrill of the Chase? 
Yes, I have self-published all 10 of my books. The name of the company is The One Horse Land and Cattle Company.

Your walls are lined with age-cracked pottery, feathered headdresses and a case of arrowheads. Correct?
Age-cracked is not a good phrase. How about ancient pottery?

You grew up in Temple, TX? 
Yes, born and raised

Your dad was the principal of the elementary school you attended?

As you were rising in the Air Force ranks, you realized you worked best as a schemer, working on your own? 
I was not a schemer, but I knew that if I was to compete with PHDs and aeronautical engineers I had to out hustle them, and I did.

You left when they tried to promote you to colonel lieutenant?
I was promoted to Lieutenant colonel but turned it down and retired. If I had accepted the promotion I would have had to stay in the Air Force two more years, and I wanted out.

How, if at all, did your experiences in Vietnam impact the decision to leave? 
When I was shot down in the Laotian jungle I had a lot of time to think. I kept telling myself that there had to be something better than this.


If you are interested in comparing some of what the fact-checker fact-checked, against what was eventually published in the story you can find a link to the California Sunday Magazine story on our Media Coverage page on this very blog…
Look about three links down..

185 thoughts on “Scrapbook One Hundred Sixty Three…

  1. “My wife’s name is Peggy.” that is awesome. Very proud man. 🙂 I’m going to give my wife a kiss when I get home. For now, I’ll send her a nice text. Thanks for sharing this.

  2. Interesting, I’m not seeing much of anything new here. But my eyes aren’t that good anymore.

    P.S. Isn’t Peggy one of the coolest names ever?

  3. Fascinating Dal – Thanks for publishing it! No new info that I can see, but very nice to see it all in one place. Thanks again Dal JDA

  4. So you were 80 then?
    I was 79 or 80. I have a reason for not wanting to give an exact date.

    I have spent many, many hours thinking about this. I think it’s very important to the solve.

      • There’s no human trail in close proximity, that’s for sure. Make your own trail or use the game trails.

        • KM;

          The correct quote is that there are no human trails is VERY close proximity…

          Not much of a difference, but a difference. JDA

          • Lol…ya I haven’t had any coffee this morning. I figured that was good as saywhut? would know what I was talking about. Did you capitalize VERY because you think that is important?

          • I think this trail info is a helpful hint, but knowing where to go (before you go) in the RM and how TC is hidden are most important.

          • KM;
            Knowing where to go, is obviously important. How can one know HOW the treasure is hidden? Will you shed some light in this dark recess? I need some insight – Please help people like me, Thanks

            I am not being factitious – I honestly would like to know how one can know HOW the treasure is hidden. Help me out – JDA

          • My understanding is the poem should explain to us how it’s hidden and I feel there are hints f has given about this topic. That’s why I think you may arrive there and not find it the first time.

          • JDA, IMO, I have taken the “Toys are Forever” and being afraid of juniper bushes to relate to “brave in the wood” in the poem. In an interview FF was asked if he would be interested in hunting the treasure if he had not hidden it. His reply was something like “If I were a 10 year old kid, I would look under every bush in America” It would be very hard to see under a juniper bush unless you got down on your knees and looked, or move the branches etc. also easy for a kid to do. Just my opinion, but it could explain why some one just walking by would find it.

          • KM,
            Don’t feel to bad Kedar’s mom, JDA did the exact same thing to me.
            Way to keep it correct JDA. That’s 1 thing that I do like about you.
            Oh yea, isn’t it “no human trails”in” close proximity…
            Not much of a difference, but a difference.

          • That reminds me of the spot I’ve been looking at. Pine trees, no human trails. (Although I have two or three places I want to check that fit the poem and description.)

            I emailed ff but never got a reply back. Although I dont guess he replies to everyone who emails him. Especially if they are emailing and talking about a solution (regardless of other questions.)

  5. Thanks Dal. Interesting. Forrest left out “Colorado” from the areas (mountains and deserts) that he has searched. It seems places like Mesa Verde would have been at the top of his list…. How do you skip over the “New York” of Indian Ruins (Mesa Verde) when you are Native American Archeologist…. And its only a 5 hour drive away from Sante Fe… That dog don’t hunt…. I know there is a lot of restricted areas in the Mesa Verde but it covers a large area…. Sounds fishy to me….

    • Although…. he didn’t say “I didn’t search in Colorado….” He just left it off…. That’s a “Forrest Aberration” Colorado is THE STATE!

      • What are the chances he would accidentally leave off the actual state where he hid the TC in any interview? IMO he would not fail to mention the actual state in his answer.

    • Mike-
      I agree it’s odd that he left off CO…
      But I ‘m certain he would never have collected artifacts in Mesa Verde. That’s National Park land and collecting there is verboten.

      • Hey Dal,
        A simple question, is there anyone that can read Forrest Fenn’s Old Santa Fe trail e-mails? Can you read his e-mails or Goofy possibly and what about the guy a little ways back that announced that the T C was found. “NO THE TC HAS NOT BEEN FOUND” Did he break into FF’s web page. I’d like to write him stuff but I’m very fearful of who might also be reading his e-mail.
        Thanks for now Dal,

        • Timothy-

          What an odd question…
          Why would Goofy or I have access to Forrest’s email..
          We do not…

          However, now that you mention hacking, I am reminded of Goofy’s uncle, Goofyvitch, who has been implicated in the recent Russian hacking campaign into the Democratic Party’s email system…but that’s another story…

          As far as the guy who announced that he had found the treasure…which guy was that? There have been so many it’s hard to keep track. Saying you found Forrest’s treasure is the new national pastime. Actually finding it is another thing all together.

          I would say that the chances of having any email you send to Forrest read by someone other than Forrest is absolutely no greater than the chance anyone will read your comment on this blog…
          Okay…just kidding..

          Forrest’s email is just as private and secure as yours. Unless he decides to share an email there is little chance anyone else will read it. But if that level of security frightens you then maybe you could try regular mail via the post office…or secret messages coded into the play by play of any Dallas Cowboys game. You could try driving by his house and tossing a red envelope containing a letter written in invisible ink over his fence…you could buy a drone and…
          oh never mind…just send him an email and don’t worry about it…

          • dal— the reason Hillary Clinton deleted a section of her e-mails is because she sent her “solve”to Forrest but became fearful someone might hack it and steal her ideas.

          • Nah, it wasn’t uncle Goofyvitch, he’s been busy taking over Europe and the middle east. I thought it might be cousin Goofyshultz but he’s been laying low ever since he hacked Merkel’s cell phone. So I checked around and come to find out it was the M.I.B.s that did it. As you know they monitor the extraterrestrials on this planet, I suppose they had some spare time and nothing else to do.

            As far as Fenn’s email goes I wouldn’t want to see what’s there; reading these comments is bad enough.

            Timothy you should never put anything in an email you don’t want the whole world to see. Be afraid, be very afraid; the government wants the blueprints to my Dee Lux Wee Gee Board Mouse Pad.

            P.S. Dal how did you know about the secret messages coded into the play by play of the Dallas Cowboy’s games? That was supposed to be top secret. Where’s my flashy thing?

          • no third term for private Schulz, it seems..

            maybe now the ex-brexit Brits might annex their ex-brexit exit and (without fear of hexing it) continue in their EU avenue, askew of tactics old and new, anew.

            (are we actually talking ’bout the same Schulz? ..i’m confused again)

          • ..I mean, if I had a dollar for every time [editeds’] cell-phone was hacked, I’d have..

            [he frantically searches for a physical calculator.. ]

            [he sadly realises that he doesn’t actually own one that displays that many digits, anymore]


          • Wow Dal,
            Thanks for making it easy… I just thought that you and Goofy work on your Blogs hear and since FF is the subject of almost every blog here. Sorry, didn’t mean anything by it. Oh yea, that loser I was talking about was on Chase Chat.
            You two are great and I try not to miss anything that you post…
            Thanks Dal & Goofy,

  6. Thats really smart that forrest would verify info as correct before publishing on a blog of thousands. Professional Journalists are very smart to address those issues before letting their imaginations run wild. Love Fs answers 🙂 bet he gives great advice.

  7. JDA,
    I believe you posted this link not too long ago about the “F’s” changing in time on trees.

    I would have to say there are inconsistencies as the years go by.
    We are all guilty of this as we age.
    I note there have been times he contradicted himself & as of recent memory he chalks it up to how he remembers it.

    My favorite from that interview:
    “Well, you don’t know where it is,” he said, grinning. “When somebody finds that treasure chest, everybody’s going to say, ‘My God! Why didn’t I think of that?”

    That’s how I remember it anyhow.

    • This is what I posted Jake:

      Quote from an interview by the California Sun Magazine.
      Out in the sculpture garden, Fenn beckoned me over and gestured toward the trunk of a thick white poplar tree. “See the F carved in there? That’s my initial.” The letter was barely legible now, a gray-brown knot that I never would have noticed if he hadn’t pointed it out. Fenn waved distastefully at another blur of gray, farther up the trunk. “There were other F’s there, but they’re obliterated now.”
      Such ravages of time are often on his mind now that he’s nearing his 85th birthday, though Fenn remains matter-of-fact about the prospect of his days coming to an end. “If I get Alzheimer’s, I’m going to flag my calendar for six months from now and do it my own way,” he told me. “Hopefully at my last dying gasp I will still go back to that place and die at my favorite …” He trailed off, perhaps wary of giving out a clue. JDA

  8. Thank you Dal. We appreciate what you do for the community.
    I am glad to hear from Forrest, in any way possible.

  9. “Ya take the good, ya take the bad, ya take em all and there ya have The Facts of Life”

    Sorry, couldn’t resist.

  10. Maybe someone can help me out here, but on reading the article they mention F laying awake one evening and deciding to hide the chest….I feel like else where I’ve read that he was having a conversation about not selling something to Ralph Lauren (love the tailoring of his old Gatsby style oxford suits in his “Purple” high end line) where he was refusing to sell ‘something’ to Ralph, who then replied something to the effect of ‘why not, you can’t take it with you’ and F coming to the realization that he COULD in fact take it with him. Does that ring a bell to anyone or am I mixing it up with something else? Which is entirely possiblI’ve been playing too much Monopoly pin ball (you CAN take it with you!) waiting for the World Series to start. I just heard Charlie Sheen arrived a little but ago….I love C-Town!

    Really though- Ralph Lauren convo or solo late night contemplation? Where did it begin?

    • Jonsey,
      In TTotC on page129 he says ” Then one night, after the probability of my fate had finally hit bottom, I got an idea.”
      I believe the Ralph Lauren story was told at the Moby Dickens Q&A but not sure and yes that seems to be what precipitated his thinking that indeed he could take it with him in a way.
      Not really clear which happened first, but hope this helps a bit. 🙂

      • You think it’s possible they’re the same event or same evening or whatever? Like maybe the possibility of selling his proverbial soul for money was the worst it can get?

        • Jonsey— have you gotten your prize yet for the contest? I’ll bet it’s a real nice map. I hope in the next contest Forrest gives away “the bullet” as the prize. 🙂

          • I did 🙂 dal sent it like a champ straight through the hurricane, and Sacha was so kind to have donated it. I thanked them privately, and wanted to post it on the page but didn’t see the link on the list. However there’s always room for more soooo……THANKS DAL AND SACHA. LOVE YOU GUYS!

        • Yep I Bet that conversation sparked the thought process that led to the idea. Very possibly that same evening.
          I wonder if the thought process evolved from the very real realization that the “things” he loved had to stay behind, to thoughts of how the Egyptian pharaohs and other cultures were buried with their possessions to accompany them into the next world, then maybe a funny thought that he should be buried with some of his things, and if he had planned to possibly do what his father had done only somewhere special out in a remote area, it could have progressed to thinking that it would be interesting if someone should find it down the road, to turning it into a treasure hunt on purpose.
          Don’t have any idea if that’s how it went down but it’s interesting to wonder how ihis thought process worked with what we do know.

          • a rare auto-focused interview given to Vanity Fair in 2010, Lauren opened up his garage and shared just what he looks for in a car. “You can’t drive a painting,” he told the magazine.”I drive these cars — they don’t just sit here.”

            Seems like the sort of talker that might instigate a little feather poofing?

            I think so:)

          • so, do I leave this website “up” and take in the “canyon” down?

            too many names, are used to often, so I don’t actually know “who or what” is being referred to?

          • Forrest and Ralph are being referred to. Ralph and F had a conversation that inspired F to “take it with him”. Ralph as a person is quoted as saying how his car collection is better than art cause he can “drive it”. I’m just suggestion that it’s possible Ralph has made comments like this before, was stated by F to have to have partially inspired the chase, and that it is thought provoking to consider the Chase as Forrest literally proving just how he can, indeed, “drive” his “art” not to just “sit there”…..I wasn’t aware it was such a complicated thought, just an interesting and amusing thing I noticed about human dynamics and thought others might enjoy, so I shared it.

          • Oh, what a sweet lineup. Each with it’s own class and character. Reminds me of many years ago when I drove my first Boxster, it made me feel small and close to the ground. Taking corners with a heavy foot was mind blowing. How about the Mclaren, 0-60 in under 3 seconds. It amazes me the variety life has to offer. Thanks for sharing.

          • Im a fan of the Bugatti. Talk about subtle red intracies providing contrast between black and white. What sort of engineer sets out to design an engine so friggin clean it doesn’t even need gaskets!?! Talk about elegance. I hope the poem, after all, likens the understated simplicity of the logo…and F the engineer. That’s a high bar right there.

          • F says “look at my George Washington…TOUCH IT”….Ralph says “look at my Bugatti…now let’s DRIVE IT”

            Is this the sort of kindred spirit that spawned the chase? I but I sure HOPE there’s a pearl in that box 😉

  11. only 20,000 copies of his 1st book? I assumed they had to print off more & more every season. I am about ready to order my third copy, how many do you have to buy before you get one free?

    When I read things like this, it brings down my anxiety level… this ‘chase’ was Fenn’s baby, I hate to think he would up and leave it completely.

    • You mean the one below the Brown homestead/ranch that’s in the pic inside the cover?…I think he calls that a “LAND” and dang…talk about a land by the skin of your teeth!

      • I think he talked about this in the Airforce Interview videos on here… He also talks about the time he put his ballpoint pin into a bullet hole in one of the smaller air forward planes or whatever you call them when they got shot up… It was a perfect fit!!! lol you really can’t make this stuff up…

    • Ramona he got me on that one too… all I got for a guess on what it means is that in some grading systems a 79 is a C+ and an 80 is a B- …:)

    • Here’s 2 ideas, the first being sorta ridiculous. Is Fenn secretly trying to say he hid it on the eve of his 79/ 80th birthday? Which is in Aug right???

      He says he has a reason, so other than some paper-trail he may have left, how about the fact that some of those areas (think YNP, GNP, scenic highways) are closed for a number of months in winter. If word got out he made the trip Dec, Jan, Feb, Mar, April etc. etc. that could rule out some of those places that are routinely closed every winter.

      Maybe the bit about ‘a pine forest’ is the most telling, can some of us finally let go of the notion he left the TC is in a stream or a well? Mr Fenn wouldn’t want to foul a body of water, remember here’s a guy who didn’t believe in using bar soap in the Firehole river.

      • 9clues, he made two trips in one “afternoon”. Does any body know what time of day ff was born? In the afternoon maybe???? Very interesting possibility for 79-80 comment. Where was ff on his 80th Birthday.

      • 9clues,
        I think you have to look at in other ways.
        If you were to terminate yourself in a forest, surely some of your remains would flow into the nearest stream or creek nearby when it rains or when the spring runoff happens.

        There is no place to lay to rest in the wilderness where your remains will not affect the surroundings including streams unless it’s in a vacuum dessert.

  12. Dang. I really thought the year he recovered from his illness was 1989. I’m glad he recovered sooner, but it was a lot of effort just to think about it and come up with the wrong year. I had based it on comment in the book that he recovered two years after his father passed away.

    • Jeremy,
      I took it all as a “general time line”. The removal of the kidney and whatever else was done during the operation, 1988.
      Followed by chemo therapy or radiation therapy [ or whatever course they took ] and a full recovery remission of all the cancer are gone. That is not an overnight process. I would think, the full recovery with the best results took a year or two, ending with the result of being cancer free [ full remission ] well after the 1988 operation. Simply saying; the ‘start n end’ of the ordeal was the operation, that lead to the ending results.

      • Sure, I agree. I just thought it was an important year to figure out because in the book it wasn’t explicitly said. Instead, it was said in a round about way. In the book it’s two years after his father passed away, then it later says exactly where his parents are buried (my thinking, so that you could look up the date on the stone and add two years — it even says to Google his father’s burial spot). Because the information is there, but not outright, I was thinking that 1989 could be a clue. Since he says here that it’s 1988, that squashes that idea. If it were a clue, or if it were important, he’d express it precisely. That make since? It’s not a big deal. I’ll just add it to the pile of dead ends I’ve encountered 🙂

  13. Dal , Thank you for posting this. The interviewer asked F so many wrong worded questions, Forrest corrected him in such a polite way, i am sure it must get tiring and old to have to correct so much . I hope for a healthy long life for our Forest and his family,, and for the thrill of the chase searchers and arm chair researchers to live long and prosper

    Hey Jonsey1, glad for you , your cubs won ,, That is fan tastic, for all of us on this blog that are fans of the cubs because of you and believe.

  14. You added to the gallery a brick-laid plaza, a gold-fixtured guesthouse and a sculpture garden with a scenic pond, correct? The brick plaza is part of the big guest house. There were 3 other guest houses and the pond has 2 waterfalls.

    The question is about additions to the gallery, why was it important to point out the 2 waterfalls? just odd…

    • Yes it is odd Oz,
      I also wonder why 2 waterfalls & not 1.
      The falls look more like cascades or steps in one of the pics I have seen.

      Maybe I’m thinking of the falls at his home now.

      • Does he have 2 at his house too? I didn’t know.
        What happens when the waters from 2 waterfalls, one with cold and the other with warmer waters, meet at the bottom of the canyon?

  15. Looks like they fixed a couple of the things the fact checker checked but liked the story the way it was to much to make sure everything was corrected to how f had corrected it with the fact checker. They didn’t even talk about him getting shot down in Vietnam. It seems the reporter kinda just went where he wanted with the story in several places, but not as bad as some I’ve seen. Makes you wonder, if he went where he wanted in some areas that we know the facts about, did he do the same in areas where we have no way of knowing what the actual facts are.

    I t was a good read and I think some good insight into f as a person but I’m personally very careful of printed articles when it comes to the chase and especially if it involves something f has said. It’s very hard to understand exactly what he means when its directly from his mouth let alone have a reporter repeat it as what they think he meant. I think theres a pretty good possibility a lot of searchers may go down the wrong road on their searches for this very reason. I think it’s a very good idea to ” fact check” any thing that we think f has said if it’s going to make a difference in where we do or do not search as we need to know his exact words and understand the context of the conversation and what was said before and after the comment.
    But that’s just my opinion.
    Thanks for the thought provoking post Dal!

  16. Typo? It says hundreds of rubles….not rubies. Maybe it’s a clue that I should drink White Russians.

  17. Dal and Goofy, for some unknown reason I have not been getting email notices about new Scrapbooks, although I have been getting emails about other new posts like Cynthia’s last one. Since I usually rely on emails to let me know when a new Scrapbook is posted, I’ve missed a bunch of them lately. Could this be something in my subscribe settings or ???? that is causing this problem?

    Anyone else having this issue?

  18. So, if the treasure is at a location where you could retrieve it any time of the year, then the road he traveled on, that has only one way in (that he’s aware of), would NOT be in an area that routinely closes the roads in bad weather. “It’s surrounded by trees, but if you go out far enough, everything is surrounded by trees.” His pine tree statement in fact chk puts this sentence in better prospective.
    Ok, this SB just opened a lot of doors. TY
    Be safe all!
    ¥Peace ¥

    • Donna,
      Not to be nit picky…
      If you know precisely where it is you can probably retrieve it in any weather.

      While I agree with you, it’s not likely near a road closure area during off seasons. This comment seems to imply; don’t go where a 79 – 80 year old man can’t…
      What I find interesting with this whether weather comment is, “If you Know precisely” which seems to imply “certain beforehand”
      “Probably retrieve it in any weather…”
      “Don’t go where a 79 – 80 year old can’t go” [ I add with a heavy backpack twice ]…
      And while were at, what the location of the chest may imply, why would we traverse a canyon to do so?
      Do we really think fenn went up and down a canyon twice in one afternoon at 79 years of age?
      Regardless of how he went, to how the poem tells us… is fenn going to have us traveling a canyon down, IF the chest is “probably” retrievable in any weather…

      Now we’re at the thought that fenn may have taken different route to hide the chest, to what the poem may take us. OK… lol, so we’re back to the “certain beforehand” [the path] comment ~ to ~ “If you know precisely” where it is, you can probably retrieve it …
      Are ‘we’ going to take a canyon down, cross rivers, creeks etc. whether or not, we should be able to retrieve the chest in any weather?
      Think about that…
      Oh right… the above is purely speculation of a logical thinker. AKA.. imo.

      • IMO …No human trails in close proximity to TC does not mean you couldn’t drive to within a couple of hundred feet of it if you knew precisely where it is. The TTOTC route is one of potentially several routes which are not purely walk-able routes. So you ask why would FF take the TTOTC route twice in one afternoon if he was aware of a drive-able route? I would not drive right to TC if I were hiding it. Also, do we know that he took the same route and conveyance method for both trips that day?

      • It is easier if you know which area
        to start searching, but knowing
        which area to search is a long ways from finding the chest, or the
        area to search wouldn’t have been given to you. You aught to check out scrap book 162 for Nov.15, and see what is said.

        • I will always believe the poem is supposed to take one to a precise spot that you can know before hand. We went to a single location and was left wondering (twice)…is that where/how he hid it? No way…………… : ) Idk…but Happy Hunting.

  19. I tried posting this Thursday but it didn’t take, and then the website was down yesterday.

    This is certainly not the way I wanted to introduce myself to all of you on Dal’s blog, but today, 8 December 2016, a great man, a national hero, John Hershel Glenn Jr. died.

    I had the privilege to watch, in person, STS-1, Columbia, launch on 12 April 1981 at Cape Canaveral. Then in January 1986 I was working at Vandenberg AFB, CA, constructing the west coast launch site for the space shuttle program. On the 28th Challenger exploded. I cried. Not because my job would soon go away because NASA would scrub the STS program at Vandenberg, but because the disaster HURT SO MUCH. A National tragedy of untold magnitude. Those guys and gals are heroes and America’s space program so very important, then and now.

    I am crying again today after mourning yesterday (December 7th) for all of our fallen heroes at Pearl Harbor. We have yet again lost another GREAT American hero.

    Rest In Peace John H. Glenn, Jr. America loves you and will miss you so much.

    • Welcome to the chase Pinatubocharlie…..thank you for rekindling a memory that should not ever be forgotton…
      I was watching the day the challenger exploded… christa is still teaching us today… true heros….
      Have fun while you chase your dreams…. until next time…see ya

  20. Eloquently stated – Thanks for your post.

    Where will our next hero come from? Only time will tell. Possibly one or all of the brave young men and women who will take off for Mars. Possibly one of the brave young men and women that we will send off to one of our wars. We each create the kind of hero that we need. Even a nation in pain. I can not yet see our next hero on the horizon, but I know that he or she is there. JDA

  21. JDA, I have a point-counterpoint personality…….

    As beauty is, heroes are also in the eye of the beholder. Our nation no longer has a Draft policy, which means every young military man and woman waking up today in harms way are there by choice, with knowledge of the possible outcome. The funny thing about a hero is, they never see themselves as one. Just one of many doing their job….military, firefighters, police and the list goes on. Anyone that chooses to put their life at risk to save my freedom, my life, or my house, will always be a hero; by my definition.

    • BW ~ “As beauty is, heroes are also in the eye of the beholder.” What a great line…that puts perspective on the individuals and their choices and actions.

      Welcome. John Glenn is the type of person that had the itch. An explore, among many other traits and qualities and accomplishments. Sure, not unlike L&C and the others in their parties who consider these explorations as ‘part of the job’… as BW reference those firefighters, police, military personnel… heroes in morals and selfless-action and willingness, etc.
      It is what we contribute to, is how I recognize the heroes. There are many types of heroes, John Glenn is one I look up to… along with the first person/people who decided to challenge the oceans… just to learn / the need know, of what is out there.

  22. John Glenn was a great man, and as stated, a true hero. Thanks for mentioning him and paying tribute.

  23. So – how far is ‘too far’ to walk exactly??

    well ..I thought 90 miles was an admirable feat, and rightfully so
    ..until I read this;

    [Virginia intra-website – in Montana]

    “If you think your trip here was long, consider the journey of James P. Miller, an early resident of VC, who walked the 450 miles from Salt Lake City in May of 1865. The trip took him 16 days, and he was required to pay a $10 toll upon his arrival.”

    ..then I read this (and smiled quietly)

    JULY 7, 1865
    “News arrived this P.M. of the attack of the stagecoach going east- by road agents. Four men killed, one missing- The road agents numbered about twenty. There is a mass meeting of the Vigilantes this evening.” from The Road to Virginia City – the Diary of James P. Miller

    SEPTEMBER 27, 1865
    “Two men found ‘hanging in the air’ this morning up the gulch a little bit with a card on their backs on which were the words ‘Hung by the Vigilance Committee for being road agents'” from The Road to Virginia City – the Diary of James P. Miller

    ..then I read this (and laughed not-so-quietly)

    OCTOBER 17, 1865
    “having used the fire water rather freely, felt the effects so much that I went to bed accordingly.”
    “Resolved on October 22, 1865, that from this date I do not spend a cent for foolish expenses such as Billiards, Drinking or Eating, Driving, Riding, Smoking, that I limit my monthly expenses for Dancing and Gifts to $10.”

    OCTOBER 24, 1865
    “Bought a 5 gallon keg of beer, which I propose to drink for my health. Cost $2 per gallon, resolution intact.” from The Road to Virginia City – the Diary of James P. Miller

    happy holidays to all who have ventured here – and esp Jonsey1

    • Hey Hobbit, you still out there “fact checking”?
      That is a long way to walk! No wonder he was thirsty!

    • Enjoyed reading your post, curious hobbit. I agree, walking 90 miles is amazing and to read 450 miles must have been nothing during those times. I need to go back and read how long it took Mr. Fenn to walk those miles, if it was mentioned in his book. I cannot remember if he did.

  24. btw WY Girl, ‘Kia ora’ means (in New Zealand Maori) “be well and healthy”

    ( quickly me in Vegas on sunday – Sparrow has generously volunteered to marry us, together!)

    ( ..apparently Billy convincing him that he was suddenly an official marriage celebrant – ikr ..what luck!)

      • Congratulations and best wishes to your upcoming nuptials, WY Girl and curious hobbit! What size shackles do you wear, curious hobbit? Each new husband comes with one. 🙂 🙂

        • Thank you PDenver, I was beginning to think hobbit had not noticed my acceptance of his proposal! Thank you for reminding me about the shackle, please get the heaviest strength available as I feel I may have my hands full! What a thoughtful wedding gift, PD! Although I may be up a creek without a paddle it seems…..( psst….pd, tell hobbit those little white things on the floor by the door are candy, then I’ll bring a ” birthday card” for sparrow and have hobbit “sign” it, hehehe) that’ll teach him to only get 3 Elvis’s, I’m worth at least 8!

          • Of course I would just rather have a common law marriage like you suggested and forget the shackle and the license and be romantic ( if hobbit can behave and give me that paddle back! ) . Then I don’t need any Elvis’s to be happy, but I wouldn’t say no to a nice helicopter ride over the Grand Canyon to take in the view. That’s more the kind a girl I am anyway!

      • ummm ,,,what sizes do shackles normally come in?
        ( ..given that you (mysteriously) seem to know about these things, pdenver)

        btw, please reframe from bringing ‘days old’ rice, as this will be purely a romantic wedding ..even worthy of five entire ‘days of our lives’ seasons …oh joy!!

        ..and all three (available) Elvis’s will be there too!
        ( I know what ya thinking pdenver ..classy huh?!)

        [..obviously ‘someone’ is feeling much better now
        ( ..of which I’m glad 🙂 ]

        • You’ll soon find out shackles comes with marriage licenses. I’ll be sure to bring fresh rice for your classy wedding. 🙂

          I am feeling much better, my friend. Thank you for noticing. 🙂

          • pdenver ..if you promise not to mention those horrid ‘marriage license’ thingies..

            I’ll promise not to report your (obvious) taking of all of Sparrows weekly meds (at once) to the appropriate authorities
            ..the A-Team, in fact …yes

            tsk tsk ..what ever are we gonna do with youpdenver – I just don’t know..

            ( ..surprisingly!)

          • You could always have a “Common Law” marriage; no license needed. I promise to mention what you said. As far as Sparrow’s med, it isn’t me who took them. I hate taking meds. That’s why I always slide them under the door from this padded room. Remember, I’m your next door neighbor. 🙂

          • My mind went quicker than my fingers. I promise “NOT” to say what you mentioned, my friend. 🙂

  25. So he was 79 or 80 when he hid the treasure, huh? I wonder if it would be helpful to know where he was when he turned 80 (when he was both 79 and 80)? I know, and I think it is significant. I would bet Forrest would not be willing to let us know, for it would be too much of a clue. Let’s ask him- Forrest, where were you???

    • Long time no see Mike……..This is a little strange to me. So you think you’ve found the recipe for the super secret sauce and it’s significant. But you want Fenn to confirm it. Why do you want Fenn to confirm it? Just go get the chest.

      Apparently you can’t/won’t go get the chest with the super secret significant info. I doubt Fenn answers you, so just go ahead tell us, I promise we can keep a secret, strictly between you and us.

      • Knowing what part of the Rockies Fenn was at on his birthday in 2010 does not help pinpoint the treasure. It’s still a pretty big area. I agree, I am pretty sure Fenn won’t answer.

        • Well Mike even if you could, without any doubt, pinpoint Fenn’s movements on his birthday I doubt it would change anyone’s mind on where they think the chest is.

          There would be some that would say it’s nothing but a head fake, and he wanted someone to figure out where he was. That way everyone would be going to the wrong state.

          But if you think it’s significant that’s all that matters. Good hunting.

          • If seriously doubt that “he wanted someone to figure out where he was”. I doubt that he knew that he was on video, and the evidence, as far as I can tell, has been wiped from the internet. Thankfully, I saved it on my computer.

      • And you are right, Goofy, I’ve been there a dozen times and I can’t find the dang thing!! Yes, I suppose that it would give me a nice warm fuzzy feeling deep inside if Forrest refused to share this knowlege with the masses. But I’m not going out there again until I can pin point the exact spot.

    • Geez Mike ! Back to Dal’s to tease ? Let me guess…somewhere in the Rocky Mtns. north of Santa Fe…

      • This thing has been going on for 7 years now, and know one knows where he was on his 80th birthday?

        • You could always check car rental records, as he said he had wondered about that. Or, if you don’t find anything there, it’s possible he was having a wonderful time with family celebrating his 80th birthday.

          • I am not wondering, I know where he was. So far it hasn’t helped find it. And a friend was with him, yes.

          • If a friend was with him, do you feel the friend knew he was hiding the treasure chest?

          • The friend was by his side, an old guy. I don’t know who he was, and cannot speculate about what knowlege he might have concerning the treasure (JDA, did you catch that one?)

          • Mike, if this gentleman was with Mr. Fenn on his birthday, would it not be possible they were just having a friendly social? As Mr. Fenn has said, only he knows where the treasure chest is located.

          • PD,

            Searching car rental records has been mentioned several times in the past by various searchers, but there’s one thing I simply don’t understand. Unlike the US government and some state/local governments where anyone can make a Freedom Of Information Act (FOIA) request, please explain what would compel a car rental agency to release any company records to a private individual?

            Further, if they did release rental records assuming Forrest in fact did rent a car, then might that car rental agency be subject to a possible violation of the Privacy Act and subject to litigation?

            To me, this entire line of “reasoning” is a nonstarter from the get-go.

            Take care and happy 4th of July everyone. Please be safe and sane if using fireworks ……….Pinatubocharlie

          • (Second try.) Pinatobucharlie, I do not believe anyone could access these records other than for legal purposes, and even then difficulties may arise. Could someone go against this? I certainly hope not.

          • Pinatubocharlie,

            Many folks would be very surprised at what is Private vs. public information. While in recent years it has been made a little more difficult to physically get some of the public information… it still remains open as such.

            For example only; your driver abstract is public information. For a fee you can get anyone’s driver information, including; address, date of birth, full name, license number, vehicles registered by, reported accidents, violations… the complete history from day 1 of the issuing of a drivers license.

            The same goes for other types of public information [ such as birth records and on and on]. Some information ‘now’ requires a freedom of information act to be files, Yet that information is still obtainable. It doesn’t matter whether the individual company or employee wants to give you that information. Most of the times, in those situations it is only ‘policy’ not to give out information… but not illegal to actually get that information from them.
            But that is not to say some privacy act [ laws ] have not been changed because of the actions of people in this crazy world we call home.

            The real question here is… will any of that solve information the clues??? Fenn put a lot of thought into the challenge, the poem, the hide spot and make it all work… I highly doubt he didn’t put the same effort into not be tracked in doing the deed.

            As you stated “To me, this entire line of “reasoning” is a nonstarter from the get-go.”
            Yep, I don’t see it as any help and more a waste of time and money… but that supposed one and only birthday pic might be worth a few to an obsessed searcher.
            Oh! wait! Maybe fenn deliberately posed for that pic and in the background is a code message. I wonder how many fingers fenn is holding up? { that’s an oldy but a goody, for the ‘senior’ thrill chaser to understand…lol }

        • According to my general solve, it must have been Bozeman. Thanks Mike. Please let me know if I am wrong, because it makes a big difference to my general solve.

      • His best friend wrote a book about turning 80, but know one cares about where Fenn was when he turned 80? Hmm….

        • Why do you care Mike? What if he does answer, and says, “I was hiding the treasure somewhere 78.5 miles north of Santa Fe, in the Rocky Mountains. What have you learned? NADA.

          P.S. “Know” means to have knowledge of.
          “NO” one cares = Not a single person cares.

          NO one cares, because it is not relevant to the search. Why do YOU think it relevant? JDA

          • Thanks for the spell check 🙂 I saw that right after I submitted it. That’s why I had a 5 minute time period to correct mistakes on my blog. As far as relevance, I believe his location fits the poem and the books. His silence about his whereabouts may provide confirmation of it’s significance. And if he does answer, a lot of people’s plans for the 4th of July will change.

          • Not being critical, but how can you say that,”I believe his location fits the poem and the books.” If you do not know where he was, how can his location fit the poem and the book? The book lists LOTS of locations, and the poem is a map pointing to SOME unknown location(s)…so, at least to me, your statement doesn’t seem logical. JDA

        • Well Mike,
          Maybe fenn hid the chest on another day, or another month, because he knew he’d be busy on his B’day that year.
          I’m not surprised anyone [searchers] would know where he was on any given day prior to the challenge… 20 plus years in the making tells me he would be very careful not to leave bread crumbs.
          I do think it’s a big stretch to attempt a solve like though. Shouldn’t the poem tell us what we need to know? [ figure out what the clues actually refer and those lead to the location of everything].
          Relying on this type of information, that you have about where the man was on his B’day, could be a gigantic rabbit hole…
          That’s what I call force fitting 101.

          So let me ask you this two part question; Is there anything in the poem that directs you to this location? or Are you simply attempting to match what you like as a clue to the place?

          • Seeker, good question. The egg and the chicken arrived in the appropriate order.

          • Ha! Mike,
            That was good. I didn’t think anyone read that
            But ya didn’t really answer the questions. It’s fine, no problem… I was just curious of the answer.

        • I am interested Mike. Leave no stone unturned, sometimes it takes someone else to point out the stone…

  26. JDA, if you read my original post you will see that I claim to know where he was, but that does not help pin-point the treasure. I have it narrowed down to a few acres that fit the poem and the book.

  27. JDA, and on one of my many trips out there, I ran into another searcher in that remote area, and he was not there because he knew where Forrest was when he turned 80. He was led there by the clues in the poem. He was from Washington state.

    • It seems as though you have been around a bit, but just not here on Dal’s blog – although it seems like you know a few people here. It may be old news, but in which state do you search? I search in Wyoming, NOT in YNP – JDA

  28. And, does that mean y’all can’t ever hear anything, if I have it turned down?

  29. Dal,

    Since we’re on the subject of SB 163 I was wondering if you’d mind clarifying for me the number of emeralds in the chest? I ask because above you say there are 8 emeralds, but in What’s It Worth……Really, you say the chest contains, among other items, an “Antique dragon coat bracelet with 254 rubies, 6 emeralds, 2 sapphires and numerous diamonds.”

    If they are in fact the same emeralds, then which is the correct number?

    Thanks much…..pinatubocharlie

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