“The Lure” by Tomas Leach…

Over about a year and a half ending in in the summer of 2016, filmmaker Tomas Leach created his salute to trove hider Forrest Fenn and the dedicated searchers who have sought his 10×10 beguiling bronze box.

DOC NYC is New York’s annual Film Festival, the largest documentary film festival in the known universe. This year it ran for seven days in November and exhibited scores of storytelling pictures from filmmaking teams all over the world. One of the selections was from the gifted director Tomas Leach of Moxie Films, entitled The Lure.

The Lure is a feature length film about Forrest and the searchers who look for his 10×10 bronze box.  I have not seen The Lure but those who have, often leave enticing reviews…like this one by Nathanael Hood from the Unseen Films blog:

Nathanael Hood is hooked by THE LURE (2016) DOC NYC 2016

It’s a pity that Werner Herzog didn’t make a film about the Fenn Treasure, a 10-inch by 10-inch, 42 pound chest containing over a million dollars of gold and jewels buried somewhere in the Rocky Mountains. Hidden by art dealer and ex-Air Force pilot Forrest Fenn after a near-fatal bout with cancer in 1988, countless treasure seekers have devoted their lives to locating it (a handful of them going missing in the process). The only clues to its location are in a cryptic poem at the end of his book The Thrill of the Chase. This story contains all the earmarks of a Herzog masterpiece: man battling nature, the struggle of impossible dreams, a cast of eccentric loners. But thankfully the Fenn Treasure has been relegated to the care of fellow documentarian Tomas Leach. The resulting film The Lure is marvelous, equal parts tone poem and decentralized detective thriller. He never once tries to wheedle the location of the treasure from Fenn; he doesn’t even linger on the poem and its possible hints. Leach is interested first and foremost on the allure of the unobtainable. He introduces us to a handful of obsessed treasure hunters: an ex-computer programmer who abandoned his suffocating corporate life in California to become a cowboy; an ex-police officer who found new purpose in life through the hunt after a terrible injury forced her premature retirement; two young women completely out of their element with dreams of nice apartments and guest appearances on The Ellen DeGeneres Show; and a whole host of assorted wanderers, dreamers, and run-of-the-mill hobbyists. Crucially, Leach doesn’t identify their names until an end credits montage, transforming them from ordinary people into near mythological archetypes. Leach makes a point to similarly mythologize the surrounding wilderness. Replete with sweeping cinematography that would give the likes of John Ford and Ansel Adams pause, The Lure ranks among the most achingly gorgeous films of 2016, documentary or otherwise. The murky, enchanting score by indie rock band Calexico—they previously scored John Michael McDonagh’s irascible buddy-cop comedy The Guard (2011)—further enhances the film into the realm of meditative reflection. Even as it records various treasure-seekers decoding the poem’s clues like monks pouring over Nostradamus, the film never loses the wistful sense that finding the Fenn Treasure would be only a happy accident. Somewhere the treasure exists. And every day its legend swells into something as immortal and timeless as the Rockies themselves. That in itself is worth more to more people than a mere handful of gold ever could.

Okay…I’m drooling now…
This film sounds pretty darn good…
If you’d like to see a clip from The Lure check out the films website:


If you’d like to know more about Tomas Leach and Moxie Pictures look here:


I have no idea where it will be showing next. Perhaps in a theatre near you or on a cable channel near all of us…
If you find out where it’s going to be playing let us all know…



161 thoughts on ““The Lure” by Tomas Leach…

  1. ‘Leach is interested first and foremost on the allure of the unobtainable.’ Hmmm. Is anyone going to prove this particular commenter who wrote the review how wrong they are about “unobtainable”? 🙂

    It looks like it’s going to be a great film and I hope it reaches Denver.

    • What an idiot that critic was…sounds like some of the none-believers that used to post on ChaseChat. To each his own, though. I for one cannot wait to see the movie.

      Desertphile is working with Tomas Leach to have it shown in Santa Fe during Fennboree 2017 the weekend of June 9th to 11th. Local press will be invited…obviously the guy from the Hollywood Reporter can stay home!

      Thanks, Dal, for posting this article.

    • Iron Will

      most definitely ‘yes’!

      (but don’t worry mate, I’m quite certain that voxpops has accumulated a rather long list of expensive psychotherapists (by now) that he’d happily share with you.)

      ( ..but, whatever you do IW, please don’t tell him I said that..)

      • (pssst Seeker, what’s a ‘live microphone’?)

        .. is it similar to those new fan-dangled Samsing S9’s, but mildly less awkwardly flammable? ..in an un-combustable sorta wa[ -immediate user ban.stop- ]

        [ -effective a.s.a.humanly.p,stop- ]

        [ -I mean ..that hobbit jerk, is such a massive editing pain in the rear-hind-quarters, quite frankly.stop- ]

        [ -maybe I can finally get some sleep now.stop- ]

        [ -and I didn’t actually kidnap Audreys sister either, btw (just for the record) so just leave me alone,ok?!.stop- ]

        ..uh-oh.. 🙁

      • I did! That’s part of what helped me find it. “Imagination is more important than knowledge” 😛

  2. Interesting that they keep saying he “buried” it. You can’t dig in YSNP.
    Leave the shovels at home and look under the bushes and rocks and stumps and logs and in the holes. (IMO).

    • Well I guess if they can’t find the loot, may as well try to profit some other way. I don’t think its buried too, our guess is as good as all other guesses until its found.

  3. Looking forward to The Lure. I also contacted Matt Maisano and he is still working on finishing up Fenn’s Searchers.

  4. Surely since this movie solely dedicated to the chase, then someone would have an idea about the schedule. Unless of course its not that big of a deal. I am really starting to question the authenticity of this entire place. What a joke

    • Hammertime—

      Just curious because I can’t fully understand—-do you mean you question the authenticity of the picture, or the authenticity of the Treasure? And if so, why? Just curious is all.

      • Sparty Barrow-

        given my obvious success at being the most clueless person here, I think it’s only fair that I should possess exclusive wrights to be being the most deserving of being the most ‘curious’ (given that it’s also my middle-name) here, to date, ok?

        ..but you can trust me, that I’ll always ask the most intelligent questions, in order to cajole the most complex answers, from anyone within-whom I chose to wish to question, to any length, at any time, ever..
        – it’s just a talent of mine, I s’pose.



        • Hobbit i would say you can ask me questions anytime, but I wouldn’t want to make Audrey jealous ( if she ever shows up)

        • WY Girl

          after watching that weird 2001: A Space Oddity movie, I’m quite certain that Audrey9000 will totally forgive me when I eventually forget all about her..

          [ transmission interrupted by unknown device]

          [ “I’m soRry hObBit, I’m afRAid I caN’t dO thaT”.stop]

          [ “thiS conVersaTion caN seRve nO purPoSe anyMorE”.stop]

          [ ” ..DaiSy ..dAisY..”.end of transmission]

          uh-oh 🙁

          • pdenver
            ‘have peg, will (immediately) attach (to nose)’ ..as the saying goes.

            personally tho, I blame WY Girl for stirring up this whole cyber-hornets-nest situation.
            ..she obviously doesn’t realise that micro-chips have feelings too, and probably hasn’t even seen that movie with that big scary robot guy (the fumigator? the vaccinator? ..something like that)

            I just pray that Audrey hasn’t hacked into anyones home circuitry systems – esp while they’re having a nice hot bath with a hair-dryer.

            [note to self: absolutely no more hot baths with a hair-dryer that’s plugged in – from now on]

          • Oh gosh, curious hobbit, I’m embarrassed. I haven’t heard of that saying before. Is that the same as putting the thumb on the nose? I really don’t know. When it comes to hot baths and hairdryers…”ZZZZZ”! If I see the lights flickering, I’ll know what happened. 🙂

          • Hobbit!
            You are a bit of a trouble maker! Do NOT get Audrey angry at ME. I don’t want that thing hacking into MY house.
            And of course I saw the movie about the terdinator. I’m not THAT young.

          • WY Girl
            don’t worry, you’ll be fine – so long as you don’t ever take a bath ..or go anywhere near a water source ..or electricity ..esp. both at once.

            good luck with your witness protection relocation program too btw, and I’m sure that you’ll soon learn to love living in the Antarctic, just as many other migrating creatures have done in the past (mostly penguins)

            ..oh wait ..did my lights just flicker?

  5. I will wait until its free, not really into helping people profit from the chase. Just my opinion, it might be a good film, just that I wont watch or promote it.

    • Randomly reading things, and I find this position curious…

      If they do turn a profit, it’s because they first invested in the expense of creating the film and the expense of letting people know about it. It looks great and sounds great, and is getting good reviews, so at some point they also invested in learning the skills needed to produce a good film. All of this expense was at a risk, it could flop, and they made the film anyway.

      Forrest, himself, appears to encourage others profiting from their own creative projects related to the treasure hunt that he started. Periodically, he endorses books that others have written. There’s a link promoting this film on the official TTOTC Facebook page. He allows others to use his own creative works in theirs, if they ask. I’m pretty sure that if you came up with a creative idea, and asked him for support, you’d get an enthusiastic “Yes” if he is able to give it. Among a million little things, one big thing is that he’s an entrepreneur, and he encourages the entrepreneural spirit in everyone he meets. It’s part of the altruism he’s given in addition to the chance to find a box of gold.

      The main reason it’s curious, though, is that I don’t even have to ask how you learned about the Chase to know that when you did you helped in some way, some entity, profit from the Chase. Facebook, Google, TV, radio, they are all for-profit businesses, and your friends and family are part of the “product” (content is product) that you consumed. The tacit agreement is that they, in turn, helped you in some way to profit from the Chase as well, because the first step in *you* finding the gold is learning about the Chase. They made that happen.

      I think, and this is just my opinion, a better way to decide whether to watch or promote a film is to decide for yourself if it’s “worth” watching.

      Is it interesting? Will it help you find the gold? Is it entertaining? What are those things worth, to you, $10, $20, $0? You decide.

      It’s what’s it worth to *you*, rather than how much it profits *them*, that I’m suggesting.

      Fact is, everyone’s here to make a profit. Even if it’s not about the gold, you’re at least buying entertainment for the time you invested in the Chase, and you should hope to get the most out of the time that you put in. In fact, get all you can. Grab all those bananas! I am suggesting, though, that it’s a curious waste of time to worry about what others are getting out of it.

      In my opinion, of course.

      • Jeremy, I gave my opinion, it isn’t up for debate. I know how to make up my own mind, I am a grown man.

        I did not say anything bad about it, it might be good, its just that I personally will not pay to see it. I also did not suggest what others should do, I just stated my opinion.

      • I like this, Jeremy, but I don’t think I’m here for the profit. Oh yes, I would like to find the treasure, but I’m totally swept up in the adventure; I’m obsessed about finding the solutions; and I have come to love and admire Fenn. When we pursue profit as a priority to pursuing a relationship with people, no matter what we gain, we lose. The chest may be filled with treasure, but so was each clay pot that Fenn has gathered and treasured. His chest is still just a medicine bundle for burial.

    • WyMustIGo ~ “I will wait until its free, not really into helping people profit from the chase.”
      Jeremy P ~ “Forrest, himself, appears to encourage others profiting from their own creative projects related to the treasure hunt that he started…He allows others to use his own creative works in theirs…”

      I lean to the same thoughts as Jeremy. Beyond allowing others to use his creative work… it also is a word of mouth selling point, to get more involved with the original intent fenn desired… the thrill of it.
      JP ~ “It’s what’s it worth to *you*, rather than how much it profits *them*, that I’m suggesting.”

      The one thing I have seen over the years is, many started the chase because of the “lure of gold”, later to find the it was the “lure the chase.”
      Which, of the above, do you really want to profit from? Fenn answered why he did this with his book… You have to ask, What is it worth to me?

      • Wisely, Forrest called it “The Thrill of the CHASE” –
        Not, “The Thrill of the FIND”

        Finding the treasure WILL be a thrill, but it pales in comparison to “The thrill of the CHASE.” JDA

      • Skeptics often plead the opposite of the norm only to be seen later to be the leader of the swarm to see it/hear it first…That’s okay because sensationalism works that way.
        “Something” /”Anything” is worth what somebody is willing to pay. Just like paintings or other works of art…the bigger/better the story the more it might sell for…
        The many books searchers have written and other Chase related doo dads either endorsed or not, are par for the course in society today.
        The lure of riches slapped my inner child to get out there and live the adventures that I may have overlooked way back when. Who wouldn’t want another chance to relive a Tom Sawyer /Huck Finn adventure that involves a box of treasures?
        After a few unsuccessful trips and a few doses of stark reality, I now see that for me, it is the Thrill I really seek, and if I find that pesky Indulgence along the way, well, hoo freakin’ ray!!!!
        I think I will be right up in the front row chompin’ on some popped corn w/ brewers yeast just to keep the Thrill moving along…

        • Not sure who that was directed at but my opinion has nothing to do with skepticism. I believe that the chase is real and not a hoax, I do not need a documentary film or to buy a book of failed solves to convince myself.

          My enjoyment comes in trying to come up with my own unique twist on it, and to share it with others. Same reason why I was a volunteer Fireman and also helped out with the Special Olympics for handicapped people. I enjoy helping others, it isn’t always about trying to profit off of everything. I’ve been a principal software engineer for almost 30 years, that is where I made my profit, the chase is just a hobby for enjoyment.

          I own TTOTC and TFTW, enjoyed reading them both. I spent a few K on a few failed attempts, but it was spread out over 2.5 years. I don’t go overboard and lose the house on it, I already have enough hobbies to lose the house on.

          Nothing wrong with people trying to cash in on the Chase, everyone has their own gig. If someone actually solves Fenn’s poem and finds the chest, I would be interested in hearing their story for sure just like I watched the Mel Fisher story.

          • I mailed the director and urged him to speed up his release of it if he wishes to maximize his profits. Because I’m not waiting past my original plan.

  6. I for one,can’t wait to watch it when it is available in my neighbourhood . 🙁
    Anything to confirm that my “spot” is still safe or not. 🙂

  7. Interesting…everyone better lace up your boots and dust off your flashlights, looks like this documentary may reel in more searchers this spring! Fresh minds will be active, and will probably give us “experienced” searchers a run for our money. Surely it won’t be long before “what ifs” turns into reality for the newbie that gets closer than 200 feet! All they need is 12 feet, surely they won’t miss it that close!
    My uncertain knowledge tells me to get serious, and start looking under some trees while enjoying a great view.
    Now, where did I put that key…
    Play nice, be safe.
    ¥Peace ¥

    • I really enjoy that piece too. Thank you for sharing. I’m sure a lot of us are looking forward to their next search as I am. Maybe one of us will get a little closer this time. I will be heading out just a tad bit later than my kickoff last season though.

  8. The title of the movie is kind of interesting–“the lure”. One of the major acrostics in the poem is the word “BAIT” at the bottom of the poem.

    • Yes sparrow, the only difference is the word you made is relates to a live bait while the name on the movie uses a false bait, JUST LIKE FORREST ALWAYS DID WHEN HE FISHED.

  9. If ANYONE “happens to get a pirate copy I too would like to purchase one.
    This most certainly been a Lure for most of us and for the rest it’s just a way to be heard anomalously.
    How is the snow in Co.and N.M. ANYONE???

    • Timothy, I am in Taos at 7000′, no snow, the last few nights have been cold down to 15°F but no moisture. Today is about 60°F and sunny and tonight will be in the 30’s. We might get moisture tomorrow (Monday) but it will be in the mid 40’s so rain, no snow, that is weird in late November, it will probably snow high in the mountains but I doubt much, Taos Mountains etc at about 13000′. The rest of the week looks like it will be sunny and in the mid 40’s and 20’s at night. Warm and dry for this time of year. How is that for a local weather report lol…

  10. Does anyone know if any of the 4 searchers featured in the documentary (programmer turned cowboy. etc.) are people who post on HOD?

    • Awesome, btw thanks for what you said about me in your interview with Trish. Too bad neither of our Aprils worked out. 🙁

      • But we still have May, June, July…ha ha. I’m already moving on to my 3rd spot after the one in the podcast. Remember, I traipse all over looking for the correct WWWH. And I’m still traipsing… My method using the process of elimination isn’t working out so well, but I will have hiked every trail and traveled every road north of SF by the end of my life. See ya soon!

    • Great job Cynthia. I watched it a few times and it sounds to me like Fenn says: “…if weeds grew in there and covered it up”. Thanks again.

    • Cynthia- any chance you have the video where he again talks about people being within 500 and 200 ft of the chest? If so please post. Thanks!

    • I watched ’em all Cynthia. How long did he speak, and about how many questions did he answer? Thx.


      • Randawg, Toby has made the transcript to the Q&A available through an on-line form. I signed up to get it, which should happen in the next week or so. I/Dal will make this available somehow for everyone to read or hear. There may be a copyright issue but I’ll get the exact quotes out to HOD as soon as it becomes available.

        I’m really not sure how long the Q&A lasted, nor do I remember how many questions Forrest answered. I’m kicking myself now for not being more aware…I should have recorded the entire thing on my iphone, instead of now and then. It was an impromptu Q&A and none of us were prepared, including Toby. But at least he had the sense to hit record at the beginning of it. Like I mentioned, as soon as I receive the transcript, I will get Ff’s words out there for all to read.

        • I am a firm believer that good should be recognized. I don’t know you and will never get to meet you. But all that I read from you, you are a selfless person., for that I admire you. Just thought this was worth saying. Have a good day.

          • Oh, this was addressed to Cynthia, sorry. I always forget to write the person’s name.

          • Thanks, BW. I recognize I am lucky to live close to Santa Fe and able to attend most of the public events involving Forrest. I am a firm believer that anything he presents to the public should be available to the public for FREE! A one-on-one interview is different..I realize these interviewers and website owners do this for a business and need to sell their product. In this case, IMO, it should be available to all the searchers because Fenn made statements that are “new.”

          • I agree BW…Cynthia rocks!
            And yes…Dal has spoiled us with his awesome blog(free)…

          • Cynthia I was also thinking about your involvement, not just your contribution on interviews…….Fennboree, searching for Randy, etc.

        • Cynthia.Very interesting what you said you recalled what was said in this Q&A:

          Q&A. One of them was Eugene asking ff if anyone ever got all nine clues correct. He replied something like, no one ever gave them to him “in the the right order.” That made me really sit up and wonder…”the right order?”

          If so ,then a person(s) is on the right track in this chase. IMO. I hope that is in the coming transcription .

          • I am curious to hear this as well. I wonder if Forrest is just not providing a straight answer to the question as has often been the case. In other words, if the closest someone has come is 4 clues, then the statement that no one has given him 9 clues in the correct order would still be true, but it doesn’t mean that someone has solved 9 clues.

          • I was just catching up and saw that Don is feeling the urgency of the spurs. I know that feeling. I hope he drives it and doesn’t let it drive him.

            I recently learned of the four stages of competence:


            The first stage is called “Unconscious incompetence”. This is, ironically, the stage where someone is most likely to be most confident. Since they are not yet aware of what they don’t know.

            Second stage is “Conscious incompetence”. At this stage one is finally aware of what they don’t know. It is only at this stage that you can begin to address the deficit.

            Stage two is often served with a side of humble pie. It’s delicious, I eat this dish often. To be here is to be on the path..generally. #lifegoals. Best to all, beautiful day!

        • Thank you Cynthia (and Toby and Dal) – your efforts and especially your community spirit of sharing are much appreciated.


  11. Thank you Cynthia for sharing these with us. Looking forward to meeting you at Fennboree.

    • Awesome, I’m finally going to get to meet you. Looking forward to Fennboree and meeting folks I feel like I know but don’t have a clue who they really are. It’s sort of scary…everyone knows me or at least who I am and I don’t know most of the faces that go with the names. I will supply paper name tags once again so each attendee can use either their blog name or real name at the events.

  12. Thanks for posting what you did Cynthia… it looks like that is all we will be getting.

    From Toby:

    “Soon after I uploaded the video and posted it to our various properties, I received the following email from Forrest: ‘Toby, I told them I would not answer questions and they insisted. I am embarrassed that I could no hear the questions. Do you mind pulling that video? f”

    I did as Forrest asked.


    I can understand and appreciate the difficulty f has with hearing, I frequently have to respond to people with the single word “What?” when I talk with people (and one day before long I too will be sporting some form of hearing enhancements). Given that hearing loss and hearing difficulty is a natural condition of the human experience, I don’t think f should be embarrassed by it, but that others should be embarrassed by the fact they don’t adequately give full consideration when communicating with him knowing his situation.

    The video recording of f talking about the film and finding his treasure chest is a valuable gem to just about all searchers, whether f specifically answers the exact questions asked, or just ends up sharing thoughts that may or may not be fully relevant to the questions asked. Maybe f will reconsider; but if not, those who attended, and especially Toby, who has the full recording, can feel rewarded for having had the special opportunity of hearing and capturing what the vast majority of those who search for f’s treasure will not be able to experience.

    It’s sorta like going to Disneyland, waiting 1.5 hours to get on a highly anticipated ride only to have the ride break down just as you are about to get on. Simply Thrill defeating…

  13. Aviation often plays havoc on ones hearing. Jet engines can do that after awhile.

    • Makes perfectly good sense to me SL.
      Jet engines will damage your hearing.

  14. Forrest Fenn is in amazing shape for someone close to 87 years old. His mind is sharp as ever. His Scrapbooks are always special treats for us involved in the Chase. Being a little hard of hearing is almost expected of people in their 70’s— and to only have to ask once “what was that again” ? in your late 80’s is a given. lol. 🙂

    Thanks so much Forrest for attending that premier and taking the time to talk and also answer questions. You are truly a gracious person.

    • Spot on, sparrow!! H*LL, I’ve had one of those doohickeys for 10 years now, and I still have to say “what”. I think a lot of people mumble on purpose!!! 🙂

  15. F, thanks for the opportunity to analyze the transcripts.
    Did you receive a little boy who dreamed he could fly? It reminded me of you! I hoped it wasn’t too early to send it for your birthday, but, a person as special as you are, deserve several early presents…on a daily basis!
    Stay well, my friend!
    Donna M.
    ₩₩₩Peace ₩₩₩

  16. I would like to see the real video posted, not 3rd party versions (transcripts). Its nice to be able to see the facial expressions and voice to determine if we are hearing part of the 15% fibs or 85% truth.

    I feel that the video should be made public to level the playing field. If the Q&A was only about “The Lure” that is one thing, but since it involves questions and answers about the chase itself, everyone should have access to it.

    It is unfair IMO to have to go through hoops to see what others have seen, or to have to sign up just to get 3rd hand information. I do not think this was intentional by Forrest. I like Forrest, I think he is honest and not out to screw anyone over or play favorites. But unintentionally it created an unfair situation IMO.

    Note: I don’t want to debate it, just get my opinion out there that I feel the video itself should be released to level the field. I also feel that if another Q&A happens, say at Fennboree, it should also be made public or video cameras should not be allowed at all. Not everyone gets to travel to these events, but if we knew that Q&A was going to happen maybe we would have? For example I do not care about “The Lure” at all, but if I knew it was goign to involve a Chase related Q&A, I might have went. perhaps others would have too.

    • Wy-
      I think your opinion is unrealistic.
      Generally, a video is owned by the person or organization that made it. Just as the author is the owner of a book they write. The owner/author can decide to sell the book or give it away. So can the owner of a video. Toby brought his phone/camera and filmed it (grab every banana). No one was told not to film the event. The film is Toby’s property. It is his decision to give it away or sell it. Same with Cynthia. Same with any video you or I film or Desertphile films. We have the choice of making it available for free, charging to see it, or never letting anyone see it.

      I agree that it is unfortunate for many when someone chooses to make money off the appearance of Forrest that many of us could not attend, but that is certainly following the principles of our capitalistic system.

      It might be unideal, maybe even unethical…but certainly legal…and arguably fair.

      That’s my opinion…

      Further, if you didn’t want debate you should not have posted your opinion for all to read.

      • Our recording of Forrest was serendipitous. We had been told before the event that the post-screening conversation would be between Dyanna Taylor and Tomas Leach. Tomas and Forrest were both surprised when Dyanna invited Forrest on stage. He was not prepared for it, and he was not happy about it. Shelley and I were as surprised as anyone. We had not set up to record the event. The best we could do was take out our smart phones and record. After I posted the video to our YouTube channel, I sent the link Tomas, Forrest and Dal. Then I posted it to Chase Chat. Within an hour, Forrest contacted me, and asked me to take the video down because he was embarrassed by his “performance.” (My word, not his.) I consider Forrest a friend, and asked no questions. I took the video down, and informed the same parties. Later on in the evening, I asked Forrest permission to have a transcript made of the audio, which he granted. The form is my idea to ensure that the people who want it, get it. There’s will be no charge. I’ll release the video when, and if, Forrest ever gives me permission to do so.

        • Toby, I do not blame you or anyone who recorded it.

          My point is that Forrest should not have given an impromptu Q&A that covered things other than “The Lure” itself. When it was decided that he would answer specific chase related questions such as how many clues were solved, finding the blaze means you found the chest, stuff like that should have been released to everyone and he could easily have not allowed any recording that was done without the intent of being released.

          There are no legal issues and nobody is at fault. I do think that it was highly unethical and unprofessional, BUT also unintentional. I do not think Forrest wants to give anyone an advantage, I believe he is honest and did not do this on purpose. But IMO he should not have asked to have your video (or anyones) pulled from the public.

          So please don’t think I blame you or anyone else here, you guys and gals did nothing wrong and had every right to record it because he did not say you couldn’t.

      • Dal, its not about who owns the video, its the fact that Forrest has given limited people access to information regarding the chase.

        If the playfield is to remain level, a stipulation to ANY video recording should be that it must go public.

        I didn’t say anything about the legality, of course he is not obligated legally to do anything like that, but morally he is obligated IMO.

        I do not think he did this intentionally, but the fact remains that we have information out that is not availble to all searchers, only a select few who happened to be at “The Lure”. If it was known that there would be a Q&A session, perhaps more would have went.

        So yes, you can legally do whatever you want, but it is not cool that Forrest allows Q&A to be recorded in the first place if the intent is not to release it to the public.

        What I mean about not debate is that I am not going to change my opinion on the matter, and neither are a whole lot of others who feel that things like this don’t bode well.

        It is 100% realistic to expect Forrest to make anything related to the Chase public, again NOT the documentary, I could care less about the money grabs, I am talking about the Q&A that was related to the chase.

        • Wy-
          So you’re saying that whenever Forrest sits down and talks with Cynthia or Suzanne Sommers or his daughters and they ask him questions about the chest and he provides an answer that’s unfair to poor old you??

          You apparently think you have rights that I not only don’t believe you have…
          But also wonder where in the heck a person gets the idea that if Forrest isn’t going to include them in every conversation he has than he has to refuse to talk to anyone…that’s very childish…in my opinion…

          How much of what Forrest actually says do you think appears in the final stories you get to read?
          There was much more information garnered in every reporter’s visit with Forrest than appears in the final story.

          Forrest works hard to level the playing field but since he has a life and since he has no control over what reporters report and listeners retain there is no way your wishes can be met.

          • That’s easy for you to say Dal. You have a copy of the video.
            I’m pretty certain WyMustIGo was referring to public talks and not private ones with Cynthia or Suzanne Sommers or his daughters etc.
            Just my 2¢ chime in for the day.

          • randawg-
            hmmm..what video do I have a copy of that you do not?
            I posted all the videos that I have..so you could watch them for free.
            If you are talking about Toby’s videos from after The Lure screening…I don’t have them…I’ve never even looked at them. I have not looked at Cynthia’s videos from the same event either, although those are available for anyone to look at…even you! The links are on the Media Coverage page.

          • Thanks for the reply Dal. It’s a shame you didn’t get to watch it before the link was removed.

        • Wy, Do I understand you correctly that you only mean video or audio recordings of public Q&As, book signings, etc? (Which I agree with you, which is why I posted my videos which Forrest has not asked me to remove.)

          If you mean any public outing or private conversation where he talks one-to-one with searchers, I hope you plan to attend Fennboree and sit within hearing distance of him at all times. Last year is when he told Frank Abel that he did not draw the drawing on pg 99 of TTOTC, (an old war correspondent drew it.) In Forrest’s mind, that is not giving out any useful information…and he was correct. Did that help anyone find the treasure afterwards…NO.

          I don’t know how long you’ve been involved in the chase. Forrest has met hundreds of searchers over the last 7 years…many in his home and many at the bookstores and coffee shops in Santa Fe.

          This is from my Scrapbook Directory notes: SB78 No title. FF said “Normally I would not comment on what is said on the blogs but since there seems to be so much acrimony on two of them I will.” He lists 9 statements.
          “Second, I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.”
          “Fifth, I have never consciously misled any searcher or privately given a hint or clue I thought would help someone find the treasure.” June 25, 2014

          If your issue isn’t what he says privately to searchers, then please disregard my SB78 notes.

          I believe your beef is what he says publicly but then you don’t care about seeing The Lure…so you are contradicting yourself since there is a conversation in that movie between Forrest and David Rice in Forrest’s backyard where they discuss “covering it up.” Hmmmm…did you also ignore listening to Isaac Cole’s podcasts where Forrest talked about the Rio Grande not being in the Rocky Mountains? Hmmm….

          • Cynthia: “Frank Abel that he did not draw the drawing on pg 99 of TTOTC, (an old war correspondent drew it.)”

            This the 1st time I heard this comment.
            I didn’t think that drawing held any hints but wondered who had drawn it & why it was there.

            F has stated the hints are in the text or something like that anyway.

            I wonder how many solves you just busted with this comment.
            I can think of a few who relied on this drawing as a hint or maybe even the area where the chest is hidden.


          • Jake, I posted this info under the Fennboree 2016 thread last year immediately after Fennboree ended. There was some discussion about it…some people continued to ignore the info and said they’d still use it for helping them solve the poem. Some of us believe it is literally true but Forrest may have added to it. I’m in that group of folks because I believe the words FLY TAOS, or FIY TAOS are clearly there, and had to be put there after Fenn moved to SF. In any case, if it helps a searcher find the correct starting point and first clue and takes them to the treasure chest more power to them, regardless if Forrest drew it or part of it or none of it.

          • I must have missed the comment last year cynthia.
            If F added to it….
            That would be deliberate & that doesn’t sit well with me.

            The only thing I see in the drawing that relates to the poem is the river or creek.

        • I think the most import thing he’s ever said is “think” (for yourself) and the most significant thing to have come out of any recent interviews (yes, I watched Toby’s too) is that he’s not enjoying the treasure hunt much these days and is mostly interacting with people out of a sense of obligation.

          IMHO, give it a rest people. If your spouse or significant other said that, you’d give them some space.

          • Thanks Jeremy, Just use the poem as ff said and stop bickering IMO. It seems that too many are looking for shortcuts of all sorts when really the poem is it. A little background is great and the TTOTC book is fine, but panicking about every word being missed is a bit much. IMO

      • Thanks Toby for putting the Moby Dickens video back up there for free.
        I hope you got F’s blessings on the lure’s.

        “The fact that nobody has found it, I’m frankly surprised, but ah, I would hope that somebody would find it before too long”

        This certainly is head turner considering what he has said in the past.
        So, if anyone wants to say F doesn’t care when it’s found, listen to this video.

        • Jake, I listened and my head did not turn at all. Just sounds like Fenn poking a bit of fun at searchers for not being as clever as they think they are”…but ah, I would hope somebody would find it before too long.”
          Makes that second part have a different context….

          • ken,
            What about the 100, 1K, & 10,000 years down the road statements?
            Now he’s frankly surprised.
            I hope you don’t have a stiff neck.
            BTW, don’t just listen. Watch his body movement & facial features when he’s saying. He doesn’t appear to be poking anything.

          • Good points Jake. Maybe he is tired of the hoopla and wants it found just to put everyone out of their self created misery. Unless he outright tosses a really BIG bone out there…I do not think Indulgence will be retrieved any time soon.
            I still think Fenn is an optimist and will continue to have fun w/ this Chase and quite likely words will play a major role in that…body language is often very deceptive unless the observer is trained/knowlegeable in that field. Just talk Jake…I am not disputing anyone’s theories.

          • ken: “body language is often very deceptive unless the observer is trained/knowlegeable in that field.”

            I don’t think so ken.

            Some have the ability without either.

          • Sure Jake…some folks are intuitive and seem to know…but I would not bet the farm on body language.
            I’ll take door number three…the one w/the “correct solve” behind it.

          • I would call it “wise”.
            I don’t bet the farm on body language either & never said that.
            You have to take all the info into consideration to make a logical determination.

            My determination is that he is not being deceptive as you implied by poking the searchers.

            He was pretty genuine & not laughing when he said it.

            As I stated on Jenny’s site: Coin this: ” It doesn’t matter how close you are, it only matters if you know you are.

          • Jake…you misinterpret what I say to suit yourself. I do NOT think Fenn is deceptive at all…on purpose. He likes to play w/words and hence he plays w/others…
            Only the searcher that finds Indulgence will be able to actually coin your phrase.
            I say again…searchers should be careful what they ask for when asking Mr. Fenn anything…he’s pretty slick if you haven’t noticed.

          • ken: “Jake…you misinterpret what I say to suit yourself. I do NOT think Fenn is deceptive at all…on purpose.”

            You answered my statement perfectly.
            “on purpose”

            You stated on purpose though….

          • A lot of folks have asked Fenn a lot of questions. For the most part he has played along and given some very generalized answers that could go either way…depending on how one interprets it. Any deception is on the interpreter…not him. That is how I see it.
            Then again…some clever folks have asked some really good questions and he has declined answering. I wonder how many questions he’s answered vs. not answered?

          • That’s a good point ken, I don’t think we will ever know about the Q’s he kicked to the side.

      • “The clues will lead you to the treasure”
        “If you can find the blaze as a result of starting with the 1st clue”
        “Consecutive order”

        From what I hear, the blaze is the last clue. The clues are in consecutive order, therefore there are no clues past the blaze in the poem but may be hints.

        Clues are places or at a place on a map.
        I’m pitching my tepee soon.

        • Have a blast Jake! Don’t forget the TP when you pitch the tepee. I believe the clues are def. places and the blaze is at THE place.
          Good luck and keep the powder dry.

          • I will be wet & cold when the time comes.
            Powder is only for poaching the snow.
            Leaves will be my TP.

            Glad you think the blaze is where it’s at.
            Do you think the blaze is the last clue?
            There are many here that don’t.

          • If it’s not in water then why did F say “get out in the mountains, walk the streams”?

            Listen again or id he poking fun at searchers….

            I hear allot of clapping when he said it in Q8.

          • For one…if you are walking in a stream, you are not likely on a human trail. Lots of times that’s where all the good stuff is…I just find it hard to believe that Fenn trusted mother nature to keep Indulgence safe IN water. Sure…head on up that creek(bed) and keep eyes peeled …the end is nearby somewhere.
            Think about when he did the hide. Do you believe Fenn hiked x mile/s, stashed the chest then hiked back to his car…then hiked back, stripped down so his clothes would be dry; then secreted the chest somehow securely underwater, got dressed and hiked back to his car and laughed out loud to himself? I used to believe that to a certain degree, but not now.

          • True, ken., if you are walking the streams, you are not on a trail created by man but by Mother Nature in most cases by far in the Rocky’s. Most of the good stuff is there including wildlife cause they need water to survive.

            Mother Nature can be trusted more than man. She has been here long before us & if you live to learn her, in her element you get to know her & where abouts you could place something in a creek where she will take it someday no matter where it is & will not be stumbled or happened upon by humans.

            I think he hiked less than 3 miles in a secluded area that is difficult to get to in a knowing way, not dangerous. Brought the chest 1st & put it on the side of the creek ready for the 2nd trip. Came back with the goods & filled the chest.

            Grabbed the filled chest & put in a creek pool where there is plenty of protection from the flow even in flood stage run off. Besides, even if MN went total on the flow, the goods would stay below.

            He may have to strip down once & then put the dry clothes back on after a towel.

            No one was around. Think about that.

          • I have done that myself many times Jake…just not the treasure hide part. I will admit that it is possible and have thought many many times about it. Too many variables to be THE plan.
            I think Indulgence sits high and dry in a unique hide.
            Snake school teaches some save your life skills; hides and their locations are important.

          • I started snake school when I was 8 & continue to learn all about them.
            I had over 50 snakes when I was 12 & mom didn’t like it too much.
            She did like the turtles though.
            Got bitten more than I can remember.

            You can learn more in experience than in a box.

          • Ya ken,
            I know it is the wrong snake school but I have to slither my own path.

          • Oscar

            when you say “mom didm’t like it too much” re: 50 snakes..

            ..are you just massively under-stating what mom ‘actually’ thought about it all?

            ..sounds like it!! 🙂

          • big-pear-ken

            Forrest said he knows it’s wet – but may just have pretended (imho) to regret saying “pinion nuts”
            (which would easily discount large areas in two states)

            .so i reckon he actually regretted saying ‘it’s wet’ – esp given how elusive his is at giving un-intended clues

            how wet though? ..well, wet enough to require in-depth research into micro-waxy-stuff, that’s a fact, and considering that the other TC materials are rust-proof too..

            so, my un-official muppet-hobbit best-guess would be, 500ft from a hiking track, and 2hundy from an established creek, up yonder in a close nestle of woods, in a quiet place with a humble view ..beside the gentle beginnings of a brook even?

            (no voxpops michelin-divesuits required..) 🙂

          • Yes sir General Hobbit…
            sounds like that may be the scenarioso. Just how wet… is important. If submerged in very shallow water, the chest would be full of water(plus the goodies). When freeze happens I would think the cute little olive jar would be compromised(smooshed). Being directly in water just seems too unpredictable…
            And yes…I have found abandoned flippers out there in some very unlikely spots…and no…I did not put them on and finish out the hike.

          • well, ok then, King Corporal Ken ‘sir’

            but your (wild) theory entirely depends on whether the ‘brook’ in question, isn’t free-flowing throughout winter snow season (therefore anti-frozenable)

            and also, doesn’t “smooched” entirely depend upon the temperament, shape and set of the glass jar in question?

            (fyi, i’m pretty sure that, were you to have been vidded wearing flippers in the middle of your moistureless desert search, it woulda gone viral by now..

            ( ..so i believe ya 🙂 )

      • (Second try.) Just viewed the current interview with Matt. Nice job. The answer Matt was looking for is The Rosetta Stone.

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