Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Twenty One

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Thanks…

 

dal…

543 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Twenty One

      • Maybe this post should be called “Odds – Ends – Evens”
        Now all the ground would be covered.

        It is striking how he shut himself off when many are still searching & it was implied because of health, but I am not buying that reason.

        That is odd.

  1. Has anyone else had a solve so solid that you just want to jump out of your skin to get there and find out if in fact I was correct. I had to stay out of the blog for the last 2 weeks just so I could concentrate on my solve. It’s been with me for a little while now but I was still on the blogs and it seemed to be playing with my mind a little bit. It so hard to talk to everyone and stay completely on my own solve. I would be happy then go on the blog and next thing I know I’m questioning myself. I would like to get out there but my wife seems to be getting sick. So for now everyone , carry on. lol
    Timothy…IMHO

    • Hey Timothy– scores of searchers have felt the way you do. Ihave had atleast 3 solid solutions and came home totally perplexed. Enjoy the feeling right on throgh Spring. Wait till the mud is dry and the weather is warm. This way you can atleast have a nice vacation. Good luck fellow searcher

    • Timothy,

      Yes – I’ve had those feelings. Yes – I went and returned with not chest in tow.

      What I have learned is to make the trip about something else. Find a cool place near your search area that has something to see or do and make that the destination; the solve should be second, or third.

      I, and my family, have some really great memories. Fly fishing in the Valles Caldera, Taos, a nice peaceful cabin on the Pecos, soaking in a hot spring on the Rio Grand, and a hike to lake Katherine. – none of which had anything to do with the solve at hand.

      New Mexico, you are thinking? Not any more, but the Chase took me there not too long ago. One of the best Fathers Day ever was at a cabin in New Mexico. The kids gave me a VERY special compass so that I could not only find my way to the chest, but also always find my way home.

      I guess my point is that you should incorporate other things into the Chase. If it takes you to Yellowstone, then make sure you take the time to “see” Yellowstone. If it takes you to Ouray, then rent a Jeep and go four-wheeling. If it takes you to Glacier Park, then make time to see the beauty of it.

      Just know when to stop looking when you are there.

      Scott W.

  2. If you are near Missoula, MT, stop in at the Animal Wonders Center, and meet Kimosabe, the banana eating porcupine!
    He makes the cutest sound while eating.

  3. Jake F et al, in, regards to the sun reflecting on the pond, I did find the older views with the pond. Just a mater of the satellite and sun being in the perfect alignment to get the reflection just right. When I first found it I hoped to find out that it was Indulgence taking a break from its hiding place to do some sun bathing. LOL. Good luck to all, and be safe.

    • The latch on “indulgence” is the head of a “Ram” resembling that of a “Big Horn Sheep”. A very close and defined picture was posted years back of the latch. I have saved it in my files somewhere because I too could not tell what it was. Bur

          • pdenver, you may be right…

            Of all the frictional resistances, the one that most retards human movement is ignorance, what Buddha called ‘the greatest evil in the world.’ The friction which results from ignorance … can be reduced only by the spread of knowledge and the unification of the heterogeneous elements of humanity. No effort could be better spent.

            – Nikola Tesla

        • Twingem,

          Your welcome, if you go to goggle search and put in -forrest fenn treasure chest latch- and click on images you will see a image of just the latch in the picture posted. Hope this helps. Bur

  4. More food for thought heading into Thanksgiving week.

    Someone here mentioned this, but it bears repeating, just with extra stuff.

    … “gone alone” could be an almost homonym for “Canjilon”. Canjilon means antlers. Another meaning was to tether water jars with ropes to be able carry. There is a Canjilon Creek in Rio Arriba county. Echo Amphitheater (“hear me all and listen good”) is close by with an interesting story about the “Long Walk” Navajos being murdered there, a story that attempts to explain the mineral varnish on the wall. Varnish is another word for wax, what Fenn said he’d put on his “mesa” gash after scraping it with the bottom of his spice “drawer” in a Scrapbook post about spices, and what he put on his olive “jar” to seal it. Not only is Echo Amphitheater an interesting area that matches several clues, but it’s in a place where he claims to be “In Love With” in TTOTC, in “Tierra Amarilla” (an imaginative way to think about Yellowstone). Ananas Georgia O’Keefe’s home is also not far.

    In the last Odds ‘n’ Ends thread, I mentioned that “camera” means a “round building”. I found another inside the search zone in Espaniola. A train turntable house. Fenn mentions this city by name in TTOTC. This area was the capital of “New Spain” back in the day when Old Spain claimed it for themselves.

      • @Heidini – here’s one better.

        Google “Blas Canyon”. “Blas” is Spanish for the French name “Blaise”. lol

        Straightforward.

        • I found this looking up Blaise. Very strong irony considering your name and the chest and F’s gallery.

          The Secret Cache by E. C. [Ethel Claire] Brill
          Then, with a tranquil face, he gave Blaise the attention he petitioned.

          The Secret Cache by E. C. [Ethel Claire] Brill
          Then, on Mathieu speaking to him of Blaise…

          The Secret Cache by E. C. [Ethel Claire] Brill
          Blaise and Denis were to take the seven o’clock train the following morning.

          Encyclopaedia Britannica, 11th Edition, Volume 16, Slice 3 Various
          And in that pale light Blaise suddenly appeared at the end of the “gallery.”

          • @Heidini – no, my real name is Mike. I stole the nom de plume of E.C. Waters a few years ago when I believed the treasure was somehow on an island in Yellowstone Lake, and related to a James Joyce novel. I’ve since gotten crazier and more annoying.

      • So why is it that I must go…

        Arroyo del Yeso… why = Y, is it = eso (must = mildew, and wet, like an arroyo).

        Yeso, I’m just having fun. Go back to your thoughts.

    • “Found” another not well known use of the word “camera”. “Chimney” has its roots in a round room with a fireplace, and in my case, another way I have “found” a “blaze”. It may also be why Fenn likes to reference his “fireplace” in his posts, and one reference in Father on the Banco.

      I just had another really bad idea. What if Fenn abandoned his property on private property with the full intention that the value of the chest would be legally and rightfully owned by, and thus he donated in his name to the private property owner? And what is left to the finder is just “the thrill”? Wouldn’t that be something?

      Ghost Ranch and their Camposantos would be just such a place to inspire this kind of thought.

      • I’m only going from memory and on a tangent but I feel like in MWFM he talks about checking for his Minnox camera being secured to his wrist as part of procedure and then later on when he gets pulled up the nine line it’s one of the missing items. But at some point I also thought he said he had a pic or two taken during the event. Did his camera somehow get returned? Was there someone else, not mentioned maybe in the plane? Do any of you military ppl know if those planes were flown with a second person? Maybe Im just mixing up the details, just feel like there was something confusing about the cameras whereabouts in that story. Help?

        • You pose a good question and wish I could remember. It may be possible that whoever else was in the helicopter that was bringing him up, they may have taken them of the event.

        • Jonsey-
          Forrest did indeed lose his Minox camera and a number of other personal items that he kept with him when he bailed out of his F-100 over Laos. Most of those items were ripped from him while riding the jungle penetrator up to the helicopter when being rescued. I’ve certainly never ridden one of those devils but many rescued air crew have related personal stories of their rides through jungle canopy which were always harrowing. They ascend quickly through everything above them fast and furiously…everyone praying that they don’t get stuck in the jungle knot of limbs and vines and trunks. Because if the penetrator gets stuck the helicopter crew cuts the cable it’s attached to in order to save the helicopter. The rescue mission is aborted and depending on how horrendous the fall is in the penetrator, the unrescued air crew is certainly back on the jungle floor and most likely dead from the fall. Many rescued pilots said that the ride up in the penetrator was much worse than the bail out.

          Forrest said that he took photos with his Minox while he was descending after his bail out. But those pictures and the camera did not make it back into the rescue helicopter.

          The pictures you are remembering are probably the photos taken right after the rescue helicopter landed and Forrest posed with his rescuers back at a base in Vietnam.

          • Isn’t there a photo of him being rescued, while he’s coming out of the jungle canopy? I don’t recall if it’s in one of his books or if I saw it online somewhere.

          • Thanks dal. I knew those were gone, I just thought there was a pic from right before the plane crashed and was curious if there was a copilot or backseat driver or anyone else there. Not questioning F by ANY means, more interested and intrigued if there was more to the story like a return to the wreckage, other person, etc. Not that it was intentionally left out, just LOVE the stories and always looking for more than could fit in a book I guess.

            By the way Dal, you need to write a book yourself..your talent is amazing as well. You explained that awesomely. THANK YOU for sharing!

          • Jonsey-
            The F100 is a single seat aircraft. Only one person is in it. That one person has the job of pilot, bombardier and navigator. There is no one else in the F100 aircraft to assist or take photos.

          • pdenver-
            The photo on page 106 in TFTW is attributed to the High Jolly. In Vietnam during aircrew rescue missions there were typically two helicopters involved. These helicopters were of a type know unofficially as “Jolly Green Giants” or “Jolly Green” for short. Officially, they were Sea Kings. Their official nomenclature was HH-3E. They were manufactured by Sikorsky.

            On rescue missions they traveled in pairs. There would be a high Jolly Green and a low Jolly Green. The low aircraft was lass than 250 feet over the ground doing the rescue work. The high aircraft was stationed about a thousand feet above the low aircraft and it’s job was to watch for trouble and maintain radio contact with mission command and air control…relaying information if the low aircraft was out of radio contact due to it’s low altitude.

            So the photo on page 106 was taken by the high Jolly Green. In the photo you can see the low Jolly Green down below hovering about 200feet above the jungle floor while they are rescuing Forrest.

            Here is a photo of a Jolly Green being restored at the National Museum of the Air Force.

            https://static.thisdayinaviation.com/wp-content/uploads/tdia//2012/03/Sikorsky-HH-3E-67-14709-Jolly-Green-Giant-under-restoration-at-NMUSAF-2010.jpg

            You can see the winch and cable that the penetrator would have been attached to over the cargo door. When the penetrator was on its way back up to the aircraft the crew chief stood in the door with a cable cutter and if that penetrator got stuck…he instantly cut the cable.

            The long tube extending out of the front of the aircraft is a refueling probe for air to air refueling when they had to stay over a target area longer than they could maintain with only the fuel they had on board.

            If you are interested in reading Forrest’s “My War For Me” but don’t have a book you can read the original version of that story, without the photos, here:

            http://www.85fis.doncondra.org/Forrest%20Fenn%20Story.htm

          • Thank you SO much for explaining the rescue. When I looked at the photo, I could see what appeared to be an elongated object, but thought it was Mr. Fenn, because I hadn’t realized there would be two helicopters involved in a rescue. Too see what the penetrator looks like and know that this line and crew saved Mr. Fenn’s, and others, lives is amazing. I have read both versions of “My War For Me” and each have left me in awe and tears. Please allow me to say that if anyone could purchase “The Thrill of the Chase” book, I would highly recommend it. The stories will either leave you laughing or crying.

  5. Just heavy loads?
    Why throw the word – just – in there?
    He could have said several or some or but that probably would have doubled up on loads.

    Just – reminds me of justify – right or left.
    I like – Just – as being in the middle, more so in the creek.

    Heavy – seems to be about his perspective what is heavy.
    I think it’s about weight & seeing we are dealing with nature, I would have to say it’s something a lot heavier than we can carry or move in one lump sum but may be able to move the loads when taken piece by piece.

    Loads – I remember his reference to “Heavy load” in the video this spring or summer here on dal’s site & referd to logs.

    Yes, there are log debris fields on a lot of creeks in the Rocky’s but if you take & interpret the clues in order, we should be able to cut them down with BOTG.

    • Jake;

      Just can mean “Only” – the ONLY thing that you will find in your creek will be heavy loads (The 42# TC) and water high – Taylor Falls. Will that work? JDA

      • Thanks JDA,
        I didn’t think of that.
        The problem I have with this is there must be something else there & not “only” heavy loads. We know there is water high & rocks, gravel, wood & whatever else, so “only” doesn’t seem to fit too well here because in reality it is not the only thing that lives here.

        This is why I was thinking in the creek or middle.

        Looking forward to your subconscious aberration.
        Some of my best ideas have come from deep within, out of nowhere.

        • It’s always appeared to me that “Just” serves to unite/combine/conjoin HLAWH with the preceding line (no paddle up your creek). If this is F’s intent, it begs the chicken/egg question, and verb tense for the last half of the stanza should be studied (obviously). Just another perspective.
          Joe.

          • Joe,
            If that was the case, he could have said “And heavy loads”
            That would have been an easier joining of the lines.

            “Just” means more than that IMO.

          • Jake,
            I don’t disagree with you. I think a number of different words could be substituted for “Just” with little or no impact to the overall meaning, but I’m not going to mess with Forrest’s poem 🙂 .

            I believe each of these lines (‘no paddle’ & ‘heavy loads’) contains an important clue. Each line, IMO, delivers an important noun (person, place, or thing for purpose of discussion), something tangible, to a searcher’s solution.

            Obviously, the correct interpretation is very important but, presuming that, in which order should the results be considered? That is what I was attempting to stress – sorry for being vague. I believe verb-tense is quite important here, and I also don’t believe there’s a verb in the ‘heavy loads’ phrase. That includes a compensation factor for Forrest-ese. My best guess, anyway.

            Good luck in your quest.
            Joe.

          • Joe,
            As JDA stated, we need to find the meaning of the word(s) & not substitute.
            That would be messing with the poem.

            I believe ” (‘no paddle’ & ‘heavy loads’) ” are 2 different clues.
            There’ll be no paddle up your creek – seems to be a stand alone clue where you have to figure out which creek you have to go up.

            Just heavy loads – also appears to me as being a stand alone clue that you have to figure out.

            I don’t play the game where some of you follow punctuation.
            I am not bound to such rules & I don’t think Forrest is either.
            I just look for words & phrases that we do not have an answer for.

            Doesn’t make sense to me to combine multiple unknown components, words or phrases to get 1 clue.

            Each unknown is a clue in my book & there clearly 9 of them.

          • Joe;

            You say the following.”I don’t disagree with you. I think a number of different words could be substituted for “Just” with little or no impact to the overall meaning, but I’m not going to mess with Forrest’s poem .

            In my humble opinion, if you use different definitions for words, you are not messing with the poem. Using different definitions for various words, to me, is essential to solving the poem. If we just “read” the poem (Like RC wants us to do), we will never find the treasure. We must interpret each and every word, line and sentence. IMHO

            I believe each of these lines (‘no paddle’ & ‘heavy loads’) contains an important clue. Each line, IMO, delivers an important noun (person, place, or thing for purpose of discussion), something tangible, to a searcher’s solution.

            Finding a verb and noun in each LINE – to me – is a waste of time.

            The poem is written in sentences. – NOT just lines. The sentence must be solved, not each line. Lines are only partial thoughts. Sentences are complete thoughts. The sentence must be taken as a whole to get the full meaning – In My Humble Opinion – but what do I know? Probably NADA. JDA

          • Very true JDA. We need to find a definition that fits the context the word is being used in. Some words can have for example both a noun and a verb definition, picking the noun if the word is being used as a verb would be wrong.

            For example in the RC discussion you meantioned that “waters” is the subject that is doing two things “halt and take”. In the sentence “Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down, not far, but too far to walk”, “waters” is the subject. There is no comma before “and” because “take it in the canyon down, not far, but too far to walk” is a fragment, not a sentence, it is still using the same subject that the verbs “halt and take” apply to. This is very important because the entire sentence is not telling us to move into any canyon. The sentence is telling us that “something” (IT) begins where the waters are “halting and taking “something” in the canyon down”. The distance (in space or maybe time) between “halt” and the canyon down is not far, but too far to walk IMO.

            In any case, you are right JDA, it is important to pick the correct definition, and also important that you read the poem properly noting punctuation and grammar. I know Fenn says he makes his own rules, and I am no grammar expert, but the poem appears to have proper grammer and yet people ignore the punctuation, or lack thereof.

            See the dog run and jump.
            See the dog run, and jump.

            Two completely different meanings. First one the DOG runs and jumps. Second one the DOG runs and YOU jump while watching it.

            When are we going to eat, Emily?
            When are we going to eat Emily?

            Again, two completely different meanings.

            If someone doesn’t pay attention to things like this, they may as well continue down the canyon, setup a table with friends, and play Canasta because they will not be finding a treasure. IMO, in stanza 2 the only time you are probably being told to move is “Put in below the home of brown”.

            It also leaves one possibility that people have already thought of, and that is perhaps there is no “home of Brown”. The previous sentence describes something that begins at a place IMO, and Fenn might just be giving it a label just to throw people off. I think its unlikely, but it can be true. I can describe an area where my friends and I drove dirt bikes in the 60’s, locally we referred to it as “Eagles Field”. There is not a single map anywhere that would tell that to anyone except someone who grew up there. So it would not be a hint to anyone except locals, and it would have the wonderful side effect of sending everyone else looking for a place that they will never find or has 10 million possbilites (brown trout, Mr. Brown, Bronze, a color tint of Brown, Grizzly bears, a Ranger building, etc etc etc etc). Sorry for taking a tangent!

          • JDA,
            I agree with both of your primary points in your response. I, too, believe you must try on different definitions for various key words. If I’m not able to find different definitions for various words (and phrases), I’m not thinking deeply enough.

            On your second main point, I also agree with you. I take a holistic approach in that the poem, the poem, the poem in its entirety must be solved correctly. The only reason I broke this down to specific lines is due to the context of this sub-thread. The primary focus was the last two lines of the 3rd stanza.

            However, even holistic approaches must be broken down into manageable chunks – at least for me. My wee brain is easily overloaded, so I have to focus on small parts. These small parts are what I call key words and/or phrases, and this approach compensates for my obvious shortcomings. But, in the end, all parts of the entire poem must flow together into a cogent solution, IMO.

            Last point: I don’t believe looking for a verb and noun in each line is a sensible or efficient approach either. I was specific only because I mentioned that I believed verb tense was important. In a very roundabout way, I was alluding to Forrest’s “the clues are in consecutive order” comment, and consecutive has several meanings that can be applied to Forrest’s poem, and verb tense is, IMO, one consideration.

            Anyway JDA, I don’t believe there’s a huge difference in our perspectives. The problem is typically in the way I (attempt to) make my point, so I’ll shut up now. I already know I know nothing, and I am content knowing I am clueless 🙂 .

            I hope this makes sense. Good luck to you.
            Joe

          • Jake;

            You already know that we fundamentally disagree with each other on this subject, so I will not belabor the point, since I know that I will not change your mind.

            “Line Solving” = unused lines and stanza’s. To me this is a critical error. Forrest wrote all six sranza’s – I think for a reason.

            JDA

          • “Forrest wrote all six sranza’s – I think for a reason.”
            I absolutely agree JDA.

            I just don’t think all sentences will help you find the treasure.
            Like Forrest said “Not every noun in TTOTC is a hint”.
            Do you know how many thousands of nouns are in that book?
            Obviously only a few of the nouns are hints.

            So why is it that I must go
            And leave my trove for all to seek?
            The answers I already know
            I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.

            This whole stanza is about him getting cancer & hiding the chest & has nothing to do with finding it IMO.

          • Sorry Jake, again I disagree. For several months I would have agreed with you, but upon closer examination I have begun to view these words differently.

            “So why is it that I must go and leave my trove for all to seek.”

            “So why is it that I must depart from my point of observation (Where I saw the blaze) and seek the treasure among the trees?l (Leaves = trees) ” (sic)

            “The answers I already know,”

            “I know why you must enter the grove of trees – do you?” (sic)

            “I’ve done it tired,…”

            I’ve done it = past tense of I did it. What did Forrest do? He HID it – the treasure.

            “I did it tired”??? One definition of tired = bring to an end. – “I hid it at the end” (sic) – The end of what?
            Well, I can’t disclose that yet.

            “…and now I’m weak”

            Weak can mean “watered down”.

            So, “I hid it at the end of something that is now weakened or watered down.” (sic)

            To me there is LOTS of information here beyond he was tired and weak from cancer.

            “Look and ye shall find.” JDA

          • JDA: “So why is it that I must depart from my point of observation (Where I saw the blaze) and seek the treasure among the trees?l (Leaves = trees) ”
            WOW JDA, you’re really stretching it pretty good & using your imagination.

            What made you change your mind & decided to interpret it this way?
            I hope it’s not because you’re trying to make the poem fit your area after several failed attempts, justifying another reason to go back there & pick the bones.

            JDA: “I know why you must enter the grove of trees – do you?”
            You seem to be seeing things the way you want to instead of what they are. I’m glad you think you know why you must enter the grove of trees LOL.

            You are “watering down” the poem.

          • I DON’T THINK THE QUESTION, SO WHY IS IT THAT I MUST GO AND LEAVE MY TROVE FOR ALL TO SEEK IS NOTHING.BUT A QUESTION THAT HAS THE ANSWER BELOW IT. The answers i already know, I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak.

        • Jake – Did you eve consider that water high might refer to the current running through high voltage lines? Or it could be the water being drawn up into trees that are tall. Or it could be just be filler in the poem. I still haven’t figured it out for sure but I have been keeping an open mind to make sure I don’t miss anything. Just some thought to chew on.

          • Waterfall: A cascade of water falling from a height, formed when a river or stream flows over a precipice or steep incline.

            Power lines will change within 100 years or so & trees will come & go changing the landscape.

            Waterfalls seem to be the only thing in my mind that will not change much & even earthquakes don’t effect them much.

            I would have to say that “water high” is a waterfall.

          • Heavy loads would more likely be high power wires than water high.

            Some think water high is tears, evaporation, water falls, water towers, rushing rapids, irrigation ditch, overflow area along a river, spring runoff, etc.

            Heavy Loads are more like large rocks, high power wires, old mining trams, logs flowing down a river, logs flowing down a flume, ammunition, fireworks, gunfire, etc.

            For example, when FF was on a bombing mission he was dropping heavy loads (bombs), on the way back while looking for targets of opportunity he spots one that turns out to be a huge funeral, he looks directly into the priests eyes who was contiplating his death quickly approaching but FF pulls up and heads out crying (water high in FF’s oxygen mask). This is not what I think the poem is referring to, but it is an example that is perfectly plausible.

          • While that is true Jake, and I agree with your definition which is certainly possible.
            It could also be something that you imagine and does not need to exist forever because it is historically existing forever.

            For example if I hid a treasure at a famous battle grounds back in the Civil War, I could use poetic license to describe the guns and canons as “heavy loads” and “water high” as the tears over fallen men/women and the pain and suffering of the wounded. There are no more canons and dead there, but those places will remain forever in history and with research can of course be located.

            Since the poem does not require esxtensive knowledge of History, I tend to think rocks and rushing water are more likely though. Then again, how many falls, rushing rivers with rocks, dry creek beds are there? Ours needs to be unique of course, so hopefully the previous clues take you there and this line in the poem is just to influence the direction we are to head.

          • Wy,
            You said this:
            “It could also be something that you imagine and does not need to exist forever because it is historically existing forever.”

            IMO, the Q&A below may be hinting that your theory above is correct.

            Did the same 9 clues exist when you were a kid and to your estimation will they still exist in 100 years and 1000 years?
            Thanks ~Ron
            Thanks Ron, thoughtful questions
            The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years but the geography probably will change before we reach the next millennia. The Rocky mountains are still moving and associated physical changes will surely have an impact. If you are in the year 3,009 it will be more difficult for you to find the treasure.f
            http://mysteriouswritings.com/questions-with-forrest/

            You later said this:
            “Since the poem does not require esxtensive knowledge of History, I tend to think rocks and rushing water are more likely though.”

            Forrest response above may be inferring that today’s searchers don’t require in-depth historical knowledge, but at some point in the future, they might.

            Just a thought.
            Joe.

  6. When Fenn said to “THINK”, I now believe he was referring to Ghost Ranch, NM, in that ghost in Spanish will translate to “la imagen”, and we know from Fenn and Einstein that imagination is more important than knowlege, but also to “think” is a synonym of to “imagine”.

    I hope this does not offend. I “ghost” we’re close a gran final. Finally.

      • @pdenver – I’m still building confidence and I don’t feel I’ve put it all together just yet. However, I do feel the area is compelling enough to seriously focus now on correlating the “clous”.

        I welcome others to join in because more brains are smarter than mine… which is why I am public with my thoughts. Or perhaps my call is just to those who also believe Ghost Ranch and Abiquiu Lake are compelling territory.

        • @ E.C. Waters. Arco de ojos de gato y Ojitos de los gatos. Great views of Cerro Pedernal (which I climbed a few months ago) y Abuquiu Lake. The EYES have it! Amazon = Echo? Pederanl = radiator? If you follow my drift. Alas; to be revisited.

          • @SandyB – definitely worth a study. Perdanal for me is arrowhead tooling materials. Not sure about climbing through it yet. I like the meaning of Abiquiu Lake being “in the wood”. I was thinking Echo Amphitheater stands on its own, but I do wonder if there are other clous for “hear me all and listen good”. I love the idea of connecting the parrot tho.

        • @ EC. I climbed Pedernal out of curiosity regarding the final resting place of Georgia. And, I hapoen to like climbing mountains. The climb requires a very long approach on foot or a beefy 4WD (check) and decent climbing skills. I determined that most likely her ashes were not carried up in a backpack or several but probably dispersed from the air by an anonymous individual. Just another one of those unsolved mysteries I guess.

          • @SandyB – right, got it now. Georgia O’Keefe’s desire to have her ashes spread on Pedernal is like Tea With Olga.

    • E.C. I like reading your theories, I always keep an open mind.

      However, considering the poem is in English and Forrest says no additional knowledge besides maybe geography is helpful, why would an English poem require language translation?

      Besides that, it seems aparent that Forrest hated Spanish class in the book, would he really require us to learn another language?

      No offense, but I think some people look to Spanish usually because they are looking in New Mexico.

      I think the poem is all English. No translations, no anagrams, no encryption, no ciphers, etc. I do think homophones could be involved because they do not require anything more than to listen to what is being said, read it outloud, maybe listening for things like a southern drawl. After all the poem even says “Hear me all and listen good”.

      Note: Just my opinion, not meaning to offend anyone who thinks Spanish is invovled! I am just curious why you come to such a conclusion when given a book and poem written completely in English. He was all around the world, why not German? Russian? French?

      • @WyMustIGo – thank you for the question and the challenge.

        First, I know as much as you do, as much as Dal does, as much as Jake and JDA and Seeker does, in fact as much as anyone but Fenn does when it comes to the true nature of the poem. Nothing. Otherwise I’d have the chest. And like everyone else, I am merely adapting approach to approach to see what motivates me enough to go have a look around.

        Second, Fenn said this in TTOTC, quoting his father related to his failing grades, including Spanish: “The greater part of knowledge is knowing those things not worthy of knowing.” Where I am currently focusing, of the 57,600 catalogued feature names in NM alone, and the almost 4K in Rio Arriba, greater than 75% of these have ties to Spanish origin. Others to Tewa, or Navajo, or Jicarilla, or Ute, or Apache. And a little in Portuguese. I don’t focus on just Spanish, but also in other origins of place names. How can one have a comprehensive knowledge of geography without attempting to understand why these place names are named as such? From there, the mental exercise is to look at synonyms, homonyms, and creativity within its origin language, and in English, to see if something matches.

        Finally, using methods I have used in my background with linguistic analysis and text mining, my simple test is to take any topic from Fenn, and see if it can be linked. When lots of things seem to match, it warrants further exploration to rule it out, or to continue. For example, you have enjoyed pondering the mystery of “15” lately, because Fenn says he does things “in fifteens”. It seems peculiar to say something like that unless it could be a hint. In my interpretation, the Spanish form is “quince”. Pronounced differently but spelled the same, this is also the name of a form of an apple-like or pear-like tree, the Flowering Japanese Quince, that grows all over NM. The fruit of this tree is used in jams and nicknamed a “pineapple”, related to the Cydonia oblonga. Fenn talks about jams on toast related to pineapple upside down cake. Peculiar. Perhaps he’s pointing us to NM.

        I also firmly believe that the majority of the blog posts here and on MW written by him have these same subtleties in his word selection.

        Hope that helps describe my reasoning for “why Spanish”.

        • … and while we’re talking about worthy knowledge… if we look at “worth the cold” in Spanish ( “vale la pena el frío” ), we have an area in NM that comes pretty close to this with Rito de la Agua Fria and Penasco Amarillo, both found in the vicinity of Tierra Amarilla (Yellow Soil, like Yellowstone). These places are not too far from a place where I could have “canjilon in there”, a homonym using Spanish from a peculiar word selection.

          He also uses the words “sway”, “quest to”, “careen”, “pendant”, “slope”, “think”… which can easily translate with synonyms into “incline”.

          When we ask “profound” questions after he encourages us to be “deep” thinkers, he says that’s like asking “how deep is a hole?” Deep is like “Hondo”.

          So, I guess, decide for yourself if Spanish is not all that worthy.

        • Thanks for the response EC, and yeah those other landguages do have a Spanish origin, but English is an exception.

          It does seem to make things more complicated, but I suppose the same can be said about my theories 🙂

  7. When f said “your location is huge and your destination is small” is this seen as the solve? Meaning, our whole solve is in a 100-200 mile range as opposed to your whole being in a 15-20 mile range?

    • Maybe he meant “location” translation to Spanish as “ubicación”. The word “ubiquity” means everywhere, which is pretty huge. Destination is Spanish also translates to “chance”. I’m not convinced this is what is meant yet. He suggested the word “location” in quotes in my favorite Scrapbook 107, the Scrapbook that opened my eyes. Perhaps “destination” is alluded or is wrapped up in a location name near the search area.

      My proposals of “Abiquiu” Lake kinda seems like the word “ubiquity”. I suggested the same earlier today on MW regarding Fenn’s omniscient guru post.

      • My opinion of the scrapbooks is that they are not really useful at all. If anything, they just add more confusion.

        Regarding GURU, why assume he meant a hindu priest? I know what or where people are finding omniscient guru from, but suppose he was using the definition to mock people who are over complicating things?

        omniscient guru can also be a double positive which means negative.

        We are overthinking this IMO. No biblical or language translations needed.

        The scrapbooks are for entertainment, and the weekly words were all written almost a year ago except one or two as indicated by Jenny.

        • I agree about the scrapbooks. There are more than enough rabbit holes already on the original field of play – why go looking for more?

          • @J A Kraven – if you can find the chest with just the poem, then I agree, you don’t need any extra help. I have not been able to do it this way, and apparently neither has anyone else, so I take whatever extra help he’s willing to provide.

          • I stick with just the poem, TTOTC and the right map. Why? Because according to the author, that is all we need.

            Maybe the reason why nobody found it is they are applying the clues to the wrong map.

          • Hi EC – In exploring how to navigate this endeavour, I definitely spent some time on the path of absorbing anything and everything I could find.

            It may say more about my (in)ability to juggle info than it does about the right road, but I now proceed on a fairly strict “less is more” diet. Not JUST the poem, but not much more either.

            Extra help is always useful, I just don’t see the scrapbooks as a vehicle for providing any.

            Of course, to my uncertain knowledge, I haven’t been within 200 miles of the chest yet. 😉

            K

  8. Whenever someone says “imagination”, I picture the treasure chest as a princess needing rescue, and Luke Skywalker and Han Solo are talking about her.

    Luke: She’s rich.
    Han Solo: Rich?
    Luke: Rich, powerful. Listen, if you were to rescue her, the reward would be…
    Han Solo: What?
    Luke: Well, more wealth than you can imagine!
    Han Solo: I don’t know, I can imagine quite a bit.

      • Not necessarily. While others are busy eating, WyMustIGo might gather the treasure while we’re not looking.

        • For some strange reason I do not think that is going to be the case. I do wish him the best and hope safety comes first. The “other” bird meat will likely be on the menu…

          • I actually heard a couple when I was outside this morning, which surprised me, because they’re usually not around here. I hope that wasn’t an omen for me. It actually reminded me of Yellowstone and it made me smile. 🙂

          • WMIG…that is not possible…but I do pray that you stay safe and warm. “Indulgence” will wait patiently just the same…

      • I have a feeling ol’ WyMust will be ‘flying’ a chase with his boots planted firmly on the ground (would that be like a Turkey Flight?)

        The more of his stuff I read, the more I feel myself getting drawn into a tight focus with the way he thinks.

        Safe home, WyMust, and ‘good-eyes’ on your search!

  9. Odds and Ends. The perfect category for this subject (IMHO). In all crimes that I ever solved, or hoped to solve, we begin with the known facts and search for motivation(s). In applying that formula, I am drawn to stanza #5:
    So why is it that I must go
    And leave my trove for all to seek?
    The answers I already know.
    I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.

    Here (IMHO) I see an offer to explain the motivation and an admission that there is more than one single motive with his use of the word, “answers.” Finally, his explanation for the motive(s), “I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.” A superficial read would be to conclude that the poor guy just took a hike to hide a very heavy treasure and now he needs some rest.

    Now, to apply some motives which he would, “already know,” my read (IMHO) is that Forrest felt that (#1) he HAD to do it for a very personal reason. Then, (#2) an additional and even the primary motivation is that, “now I’m weak.” The word “weak” being an anagram for “wake.” Meaning (IMHO), “now I’m (revived/healed/reawakened/back from death/able to keep vigil) and that is because he HAS, “done it.” Note, any reference to wanting to, ‘get people off the couch and out to see nature’ is missing. In my opinion that is a noble, visible goal (diversion) but lacks any true motivation for leaving a pile of treasure in the wilderness.

    Also contained in stanza #5 (IMHO) is an opportunity to refer to the treasure as a “trove,” which allows for legal options upon recovery. Also, contained in this stanza (IMHO) is one hint to confirm the location and one hint (IMHO) to reveal the methodology for concealing his, “indulgence(s).” These hints are now clearly revealed (to me anyway) by spending some time looking for motives.

    Which brings up another known fact. The use of the title, “Indulgence,” by Forrest. Many quickly gravitate to a definition for the title similar to satisfaction, gratification, fulfillment, intemperance, immoderation, excessiveness, lack of restraint, extravagance etc. After all, it is gold, jewels and collectable artifacts. Yet, the definition for “indulgence” from a perspective of motives may mean forgiveness, leniency, mercy, clemency or the repaying of a perceived debt.

    So, what are your thoughts on motive(s)? There is a great deal of wisdom on this blog. Is my thinking on all this possibly right? Wrong or partially wrong from what you know? You may think that it is not important or you. Then again, you may see a key word or a word that is key or even find a key in the process, like I believe that I have.

    This is not written to take a jab at (Forrest) who appears to be a wonderful man. The fact is that, “all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” Just like I will have a few timeless questions for the Lord upon arrival in Heaven, I hope to have a few questions for Forrest upon finding the, “trove.” Unless, they are revealed in the enclosed and sealed autobiography that he so thoughtfully supplied.

    Best wishes and safety to all who dare!

    • “If you see a warrior staring off, quietly move away.”

      I think it is often hoped that extravagant gifts or gestures will nail a lid on uncomfortable feelings. That’s why they have homecoming parades.

      • Some soul stirring thoughts that you share. So you seem to see some validity to the “motives” and can imagine a war related link. I thought that as well at one point, yet since have developed 4 other possible theories. One of which ties to an interesting location for “indulgence,” (IMO). Serving your nation in times of war would be reason enough to craft The Chase as a release. See anything (motive) that might tie a motive with, “I’ve DONE IT…”?

        • Yes, LMN, but suggesting or attributing ulterior motives for acts of creativity or generosity (rather than a crime) seems iintrusive of another person privacy & makes me uncomfortable. If your theories are built on on public evidence & not private projection, I’d really lbe interested in analysis. … I do wonder how motive would relate to the clues or hidey place though. I don’t dismiss it, but I do doubt it. OS2

          • Thanks for the reply OS. I am attributing what (IMHO) is an ulterior motive, but that does not indicate any sort of -negative- motive. Simply one that adds more relevance to The Chase.

            That is not to dismiss the “creativity” (ff nailed that one) but does factor a bit into the “generosity” vs. “Indulgence(s)” debate. Is there “motivation” for The Chase that ties more into the geography of the Rockies? I have seen something barely mentioned and rarely discussed that would tie to the “hidey place.” Still a doubter?

        • Motive to “I’ve done it”?

          No, but “I’ve done it” = past tense if “I did it”. What did Forrest do? Forrest HID (or secreted) IT (The treasure)

          “I hid it tired”???? One definition of tired = come to an end. One definition of weak = watered down.

          Does this mean that he hid it where something comes to an end, and is watered down?

          Interesting possibilities.

          Just some ramblings of an Old Geezer.

          Good Luck to All and TRY to STAY SAFE
          JDA

      • Some soul stirring thoughts that you share. So you seem to see some validity to the “motives” and can imagine a war related link. I thought that as well at one point, yet since have developed 4 other possible theories. One of which ties to an interesting location for “indulgence,” (IMO). Serving your nation in times of war would be reason enough to craft The Chase as a release. See anything (motive) that might tie a motive with, “I’ve DONE IT…”?

    • LMN;

      I hope that I never commit a crime that you need to investigate. You have a very deductive mind.

      You state, “… Yet, the definition for “indulgence” from a perspective of motives may mean forgiveness, leniency, mercy, clemency or the repaying of a perceived debt.”

      I focused in on the, “…repaying of a perceived debt.”

      In “My War For Me”, Forrest says the following,:
      “I remember smiling and telling myself in an idle whim, ‘If I get back from this mission, I’m going down there.’…I felt I’d made a deal with that beautiful place. “You bring me back and I’ll come down there and personally thank you.” The deal was struck I trusted it, and it could trust me. It was our secret alone.”

      Forrest did make it back from that mission, and he did return to the waterfall. Is the treasure hidden in or near a waterfall that reminds Forrest of that waterfall in Viet Nam? I think so. Did he secret his treasure here as “repayment for that debt” that he felt he owed the waterfall? I think so. Only time will tell.

      Good luck to all searchers, and TRY to STAY SAFE all.
      JDA

      • HI JDA! Your reply was very interesting, indeed! I do not have the benefit of the book. It was my choice (for better of worse) not to complicate my thinking with factors outside of the poem itself.

        So I have to ask you or whomever decides to chime in, what was happening in the story immediately before the comment, “I remember smiling and telling myself in an idle whim, ‘If I get back from this mission, I’m going down there,” because it really pulls some things together in regard to clarifying motives.

        Also, “The deal was struck I trusted it, and it could trust me. It was our secret alone,” seems critical to know about those surrounding details as well.

        What is/was “it”? Now, I am in a dilemma. I am ready to go pick up “indulgence” when the time is right, but may need to buy the book – before buying airline tickets. Just to be safe with any missing details.

        I appreciate any feedback from you, JDA and any others with an opinion.

    • LMN…
      I like all of the ideas you have set out…much like you, early on, I asked over and over what would motivate a person to hide a treasure and invite folks to go and get it. With all of the hats Forrest has worn in his lifetime it could be for a wide variety of reasons(motives) he did what he has done(hidden Indulgence).
      The religious side of it, a penance or “Indulgence” could be easily justified under the circumstances a war time veteran may experience. Their may possibly be other angles in his personal life that come into play there as well.
      Without going into any detail, I agree with this line of thinking and have incorporated parts of this in my ongoing solve. For me, it is a multifaceted approach that all ties together to encompass many things that forrest experienced through his life….
      Great detective work LMN and I also do not think this line of approach in any way reflects badly on anyone.

      • Ken,

        Sounds like we are on the same page in many respects. I agree that it is not a negative reflection at all upon someone who desires to make things right in respect to some uncomfortable aspects(s) of their life.

        Where we may part in our thinking is the tie to military service. That is not a connection that I am so quick to -assume- because maybe it is just a little to easy and obvious.

        My thinking is that “Indulgence” lays in a specific spot for a specific reason. Do you have any other thoughts on that, Ken? Anyone else see a motive that is perhaps a bit more viable and yet hidden from plain sight?

        • LMN, Could be, he just said he’d done adulthood & cancer, and is weak and tired, and lamented for the freedom, health, joyful innocence of childhood in his remaining years…. the grandfather syndrome.

          Or, could be, he wanted a wider audience for his MWFM story, …I believe he did say he wished he had been closer to his sister who was anti-war at the time ( I don’t remember where I read that, so don’t quote me). Some return from war and their damage is readily visible… others may suppress it for a long time,

          When weak and tired, I think we get to know ourself, and will speak our truth more truthfully. (Thats partly why torture is a misunderstood tool, IMO) I had a beloved uncle who was a badly treated POW in the Korean war for nearly its whole duration… and made it thru the homecoming with big smiles and good humor. Then slowly turned into something else. Bless his wife. The MWFM story is very powerful to me.

          Yes, I am interested in your thoughtful theories, not to solve the hunt, but to understand things.

          • I don’t want to be a ” conversation crasher” but this topic is very near and dear to my heart. My dad is a double Purple Heart veteran and came home with both internal and external scars that are just now 40 plus years later being addressed and healed. He has a very powerful story that needs to be told to a wider audience. One of my motivations for participating in the chase is that the notoriety and money that would come attached would lead me to be able to better spread that story. ( Of course I haven’t shared this with him, so everybody, ssshhhhh……. And daddy if you are reading this you are more interested in this treasure hunt than you let on and more tech savvy too, haha)

            My sorry self is attempting to write a book about his experience in the war, how it affected him through life, and how he is now healing so many years later. I’ve never been much of a writer so maybe I’ll take on a ghost writer. Who knows….

            I hate how we police the world and we are damaging so many young men and women in the process. I am very, very proud to be an American and will always support our troops with my whole heart. But if I can make a difference in some lives with my dad’s story I’m gonna give it my best shot.

            Ok, I’m off my soapbox, back to TTotC.

          • OS,
            Without the benefit of reading MWFM I am at a loss to adequately respond. ALL your comments about the ravages of war on a person’s mental stability make good sense to me and I am sure speak deeply into the lives of others as evidenced by WY Girl.

            Unfortunately, I must change the subject of the conversation to speak to your interests because I believe that the true motive for The Chase is unrelated to military service.

            In theory, if someone -believed- that they had a debt to repay and had the integrity, conviction and determination to make that happen but lacked a clear method to carry that out, they might (very creatively) design The Chase. If you can pinpoint the exact “motive” you can (IMHO) narrow down the place and we are told that the poem spells it all out.

            AS for the details, that would be between Forrest, his Lord and perhaps(?) the finder of the trove, IF he spells it out in the enclosed autobiography. I happen to believe that the most interesting chapter in the life of Forrest Fenn has yet to be written. I am speculating that he may finally be ready to do that – so that he can truly retire and enjoy life. The 1000-year thing turned out to be a bit draining…

          • LMN, .. you said that in your opinion … “ If you can pinpoint the exact ‘motive”’you can narrow down the place…”
            Just for example, consider WY-Girl’s post…. I doubt her passion (motive) to tell her father’s story is to pay a debt as much as it is an expression of love, a hurt that is eating its way out. If there are too many WWWH in the Rockies to search, good-luck exploring the territory of the human heart

            Wy Girl, Your post stayed with me as I went to bed last night and came again at twilight. It has many companions there. I wish you well.

        • LMN, you said:
          Is there “motivation” for The Chase that ties more into the geography of the Rockies?

          I have been curious about that question since you asked me the other day, -why?- he did it. I always thought that we humans need multiple motives to make decisions and move it into action in most cases, that is how our brains are wired. But if there is one ‘motivation’ specifically and that ties to the Rockies then you are onto something my friend, and you should pay for that airline ticket.
          Did you see some example of this on Stanza 5? Is it hidden behind -answers- or is it ‘understood’ by tired and weak? If you can share…

          I think I did find what you suggested from Stanza 1 the other night, took a lot of brain power. That is one ‘rabbit hole’ I was trying not to fall into but since I have nothing else to fall on anyways I am giving it a try.

          • Oz,

            Had some trouble replying. Not certain that I understand your two questions enough to respond. Will give it a try.

            Stanza 5 says “…MUST go…and leave…trove…” In my opinion, Forrest believed that he HAD to go and do it. Also, (IMHO) contrary to the way it appears, tired and weak in this stanza have absolutely no relationship to each other.

            The true “motive” for The Chase is well hidden and thus very rarely surfaces in discussions…but it is there (IMHO).

          • LMN, I’ve found, or I can see some motive(s). I still don’t see the main one that you suggest will tell -why-

            He’s done it tired, I see that one but not the ‘and now I’m weak’. Did he get to the realization of his (ways) after he had done it tired? Then the -decision to change- but now he is weak to continue but also (awake) and aware to share it. Could this motive change what he had done tired in the past?

            …somewhere in the middle of that sentence I lost my train of… fire trucks.

  10. Sure wish Forrest would honor us with some “Surprise Words” over on Jenny’s site. We could add them to our Thanksgiving thoughts to ponder. 🙂

  11. HAPPY THANKSGIVING to all my fellow treasure hunters. God bless your family’s and friends and or country. I’m so thankful to have been able to share this adventure with all of you.
    Safe travels to everyone.

    • Thanks eaglesabound & same to you & all.
      This day is not what most think.
      I will not post any links to the facts.
      Let’s just say this is a “Day of Morning”.

      I’m a hypocrite & will indulge 🙂

  12. Happy Thanksgiving! Yes, lots of wisdom on this site. Let’s hope everyone stays safe and grounded in their thoughts and actions.

  13. Every day, as I sit down at my computer, I feel that I am sitting down with Friends and Family, and I am thankful for them all.

    Today I will actually be sitting down with Friends and Family to give Thanks for the many blessings that I and my wife have received, and you my friends are at the top of my list.

    Thanks goes out to you all. You have seen my best, and you have also seem my worst. I am sorry for the times that I have “Acted Out”.

    Thanks for putting up with my banter. TRY to STAY SAFE ALL

    A Friend

    JDA

  14. I want to wish a happy Thanksgiving to all that are enjoying the thrill of the chase ( and of course everyone who’s not, too 🙂 ). I have to agree with what JDA said above about family and friends- I feel that over the last three years that I’ve been involved that slowly but surely you have all become my friends and then family. You can’t spend that much time with people, even if it’s lurking online watching them like I did for months lol, without them becoming very important to you.
    So happy, happy Thanksgiving to all my friends and family!

    On another note; My family and I decided at the last minute to drop everything and eschew the traditional Thanksgiving traditions because it was just to be our little family, all other family and friends had other plans, and drive to Austin, TX for a couple day getaway over the holiday. What a fabulous city!! So much history and character! I love it! I haven’t been particularly enamored with TX in the past but was only familiar with a small portion of it and had no idea how diverse it is. We drove through Temple, TX on our way here but it was at night. On the way back we are gonna drive through town and see where f lived as a child. My family is not into the chase but they are willing let me have my fun.

    There Dal and Goofy, I made that about the Chase!
    Happy Thanksgiving again my friends!
    WY Girl

    • WY Girl-
      Take a photo or two in Temple so you can share them with us on the photo album page..
      See if you can find a pineapple pie place…
      and maybe stop by the city park honoring Forrest’s dad..

      • Thanks Dal,
        I’ll definitely take pics. To tell you the truth I don’t remember the street number of his old house and have my books. Just know it two blocks from the cemetery on Main.
        Any idea where the pie place WS/is?
        Hubby says he’s not up for wild goose chase today ( pun intended 🙂 )

      • Hey dal- do you know the pineapple pie place? I feel like at some point I looked at old maps of Texas and it appeared that walking to school the pineapple pie place was either right where a church is now or at a place that has since become the ‘teddy bear bakery’ or something like that. Im only going from memory so maybe my details are totally off, still curious if that was even right all the same. Does that ring a bell? Do you happen to know where the real place was? Id love to know.

        • The place I’d guessed at the time was 115 w French avenue now, but a factory or something back then I think (?)

          • Hey Jonsey,
            Above I accidentally said I have my books, but I DONT have my books with me. Now I don’t even remember where I saw the address I think it was in TWTW but can’t really remember and I’m in the car on my iPad on my cell hot spot ( which is a feat in itself considering how tech illiterate I am). Do you know the address of f’s old house?
            Or anybody else that might be on today?
            I’m about 30-40 minutes from Temple.

          • Jonsey, I have to apologize. How rude of me not to say thanks for the info re the pineapple pie place.

            All,
            I remember that f’s old place is a couple of blocks from the cemetery on Main so should be able to find it. I would love to visit the park where the thing with f’s father is but don’t remember where it is either.

            My family is grumpy about stopping but too bad, lol.

            If anyone is on ( I’m sure most normal people are eating turkey right now, haha!) let me know if you remember anything about it.

            We are at the Buc ee’s at the north end of town now. Getting some food then we are off to take some pics!
            Not as good as looking for the chest, but right now anything chase related is awesome to me!

          • Blog and comments box is acting weird. Anybody else having issues?

            Got some pictures in Temple,TX yesterday of f’s old steps, the cemetery gate, and what may have been the pineapple pie place according to Jonsey among other miscellaneous assorted pictures of who knows what or where. I’ll send the best to Dal when I figure out how to do so, so he can post in photo album. I’m a terrible photographer and took most of the pics from the vehicle. Maybe you can fix em up Dal?

            Don’t know if anybody really cares but anything chase related and/or important to f is interesting to me.

      • Ugh……. So many strings to untangle. I love it!!! More research! My favorite part of the chase!

        I’ll never be able to untangle and get a solve before spring but I’m sure gonna try. 🙂

        • F is for fake! It was a movie! I had no idea f’s scrapbook mirrored this story! He took it on like it was his own! Hilarious. Now to decifer what is hidden HIS story!

  15. Folks have asked where they can get the wall sized map like the one in Too Far To Walk…
    The map publisher Benchmark designed the map that is in the book and they also sell large versions (24×30 inches). Since there were only 100 made I am surprised that they have any left but the sales page is still on their website…sooooo….
    (sorry Curious Hobbit I cannot convert to centimeters or ells. My brain is too small)
    They are spendy at $100 each but they are signed by Forrest and numbered.
    Look here:
    https://www.benchmarkmaps.com/thrill-of-the-chase-wall-map

    • Thanks dal,
      Each map includes a letter of authenticity with the secret, fascinating story of Fenn’s compass.

      OK, what’s the secret, fascinating story of Fenn’s compass?

    • Hi Dal,
      I actually went onto the site to buy one but there is no way to add that item to your cart.
      I’m technically challenged so maybe it’s me.
      can you help me Dal.
      Thanks

    • 🙂 Uhhh Dal,

      If you read the second line @ the link you provided, you will see this:

      “Updated Summer 2015: The limited edition The Thrill of the Chase wall map signed by Forrest Fenn sold out in 2014.”

      (hope ya had a greeeaaat Turkey Day!!!) 🙂

      • READ!! Nah…I don’t do that anymore. It just clogs up my brain cells with facts and details…

        Sorry I missed that line loco…false alarm…
        Maybe I’ll sell my extra copies of the map…or more likely give them away as prizes in a new contest…

        What kind of contest should we have?

    • Which map, the one at Benchmark that is missing the circle marking Ralston WY, or the later one from the book that has the mark?

  16. All –

    The number 15 is a very important number to Mr. Fenn. In TTOTC all the words are enlarged on Page 15. Mr. Fenn has also said that he was diagnosed with cancer in 1988 and he his treasure exactly 15 years later (2003). We all know that he his treasure in 2009/2010. A lot of folks think 2003 is a key date. I disagree. I think he is trying to draw your attention to the number 15, which would fit nicely into a time solve or degree solve.

    Has anyone else noted the number 15 and its importance?

    Thanks, Mike

    • Maybe look at the map provided in “too far to walk” and look at the 15 degree magnetic declination line?

    • I know one other 15! In his words it is okay for a non fiction writer to only tell the truth 85% of the time, that means 15% of the time he can lie, or do as his father said and not tell ALL of the truth.

      I think he did indeed hide the treasure around 2002 just before he sold his plane and roughly 15 years later. He took one trip in his plane, then two trips from a car/jeep IMO.

      Remember a few things:
      1. He stated he only needs to tell the truth 85% of the time as a non fiction writer.
      2. He brags about how Eric Sloane would lie about his age and say he was born 5-10 years later than he really was.
      3. Nobody that did see the chest can without a doubt prove it was the same exact chest he said he hid. In fact nobody but Fenn even seen the final contents.
      4. He stated that he had time to change his mind, he could have always went back to get it. Well that is not true after the book was released unless he wanted a lot of trouble. I say he had 8 years to modify the poem and change his mind before finishing the book and poem.

  17. It’s me again with another idea, it still fits in with my other personal theories and I want to throw it out there for some feedback. Upfront, no, I am not smoking anything.

    I know many people have suggested that the poem may be describing life and/or death. This has lead some to believe that an old vehicle, perhaps the Bullet is involved. Some think a graveyard is involved at some point, heck even TTOTC renderings hint at being alone in a grave to think.

    Well what if the poem is “something” speaking, for now lets call it a bronze statue of some sort, I will refer to it as a monument but it could be anyhting.
    What if the poem is the monument telling you about how and why it came into existence, story one, lets say “Riches new”.

    What happens to old monuments when they become “tired and weak?”. Well they end up in a grave yard, a bone yard, a cemetery of sorts.

    What if the new monument is telling you to go seek what it replaced in order to locate “Riches old”?

    What if the chest is sitting inside or under an old retired monument at a place where old monuments exist. If it were an old car it might be a junk yard.

    So in Wyoming there is a place where old monuments go when they are replaced. For example “Old Trail Town” (http://oldtrailtown.org/) in Cody? They have statues there that were “retired” and replaced. They also have original old cabins used by the outlaws that were relocated from Montana to Wyoming.

    Maybe the chest isn’t there, but a clue is. For example suppose the chest is hidden at the original location in Montana of one of the cabins that now exists in this outdoor musum of sorts?

    During my last trip to Wyoming I was at a cemetery of sorts, it is a documented ruins that happens to exist on currently “vancant lots”. Nothing is still standing except for a few footings, wells, stuff like that. The land is pretty much void of any structures unlike some of the old mining ghost towns (this was not a ghost town, also not a tourist destination, but very historical nonetheless).

    I know FF said its not in a graveyard, so we should not go grave digging. But I am talking about different graveyards. I am talking about places like ruins where an archeaologist is likely to go look for treasure. If they moved some old saloons and personal outlaw cabins, could the treasure be at the locations where these things once stood before being moved to be preserved, or they were taken down due to being tired and weak.

    • Other WY,
      You sure your not on something?

      Just kidding! Everyone has so many theories. It like pdenver told me when I first start commenting you likely to get all tangled up if you don’t watch out.

      F told us to stick to the poem.

      Seriously don’t get offended, I promise I’m not being disrespectful.

    • Wy, you have a brilliant way to tapping into the keys to understand and imagine. Bravo !!:)

    • WMIG;

      I think that your new idea is a bit on the fringes of possibility, but what do I know? – NADA.

      I few days ago, I awoke at midnight and had a new idea.

      This is the first paragraph of a post that Dal will be posting in a day or two. It seems to tie in with your post.

      ““What If” the poem is not about finding a chest full of gold, but rather a poem about crossing over to the other side?
      In 1988, Forrest was diagnosed with cancer. We know very little about his battle with cancer, other than the fact that he is a survivor. “What If” he died, but was one of the fortunate few who came back, before fully crossing over to the other side? “What If” Forrest wrote the poem to tell us how to prepare for that journey that we will all take at one point or another?
      I firmly believe that there is a hidden bronze chest of gold out there, and that the poem holds the secret to finding that chest, but I also believe that the poem could be about that “crossing over”.

      It has NOTHING to do with the bronze box and its contents…It is just a different perspective of the poem.

      Take care, good luck, and TRY to STAY SAFE – JDA

      • WYGirl, I am using only the poem 🙂

        I believe that the poem is not FF speaking, but something else. Its almost as if FF is explaining his thoughts during a dream or something he is imagining.

        I can see both life and death in the poem. Almost like you are lead to a place where something exists that you are being lead to discover. When you reach it, you are not finished. Like any good archeaologist you would want to learn the history behind your discovery, even Fenn says everything has a story, including his first arrowhead. We have Fenns story when he found the arrowhead, and the arrowhead has a story about how it cam to exist at that spot.

        Now since Forrest was a pilot since he was in his early twenties, I would imagine that even though he sold his plane in 2002, he still thinks about flying. Flying to drop bombs that killed people, and flying from Santa Fe 600 or 700 miles north to stop in some small town, rent a car, and go do some fishing, or even flying up to Alaska to discover some gold. That said, I believe that the poem is taking you on a virtual flight (need to imagine it) to the point where you put-in, or land the plane. From there you are now solving clues on location in his dream.

        I feel that the clues once there will apply to “something”. Maybe a map that is meant to have its destination altered by the poem. Maybe a carved map, etching, or even a national park map. But remember, you are not following the map to where it normally leads, you might be applying the poem to the map to go where the poem sends you, which might be out of the park.

        OR, instead of a map we have something else you will see when you look quickly down. For example, if you are staring at a painting, a landmark, a sculpture, whatever… when you look down you usually see a brass plate, a plaque, a marker or something that talks about what you are looking at. Now if we again apply the poem to that marker (even call it a blaze), perhaps it hints at where we should be going.

        Let me make up an example. Suppose you are standing at Madison Junction in Yellowstone. You see a sign that takes you to Bakers Hole, it guides you to Bakers Hole using landmarks. Now suppose there is a fork and the sign wants you to go right at a spot that can be a place “not for the meek”, well maybe the poem wants you to deviate from the path frequently walked and instead make a left (nigh)? Maybe that left leads you out of Yellowstone Park into West Yellowstone MT? This sign don’t exist, but this does describe what I am talking about.

        One other very important thing about Fenn being a pilot is that I can say TWO WORDS to Forrest such as “GOOFY SIX”. Guess what, when I said “GOOFY SIX” I just gave Forrest a MAP that has names of maybe 15 exact coordinates that is known worldwide (if you have the right map). I told him exactly how to get to Orlando International from the south once he is within a distance such as that from Palm Beach. Just TWO words and he has access to longitude, latitude, and altitude without me saying a single number.
        Incidentally here is GOOFY SIX: http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1612/00571GOOFY.PDF

        Anyway, all I am using is the poem, the book, and what might be “the right map”. There are tens of thousands of named navaids, airways, etc that are not on road maps or GE unless you put them there. They are no different than using any other map, they lead you from point to point IF you follow them (and I am saying perhaps you don’t follow them, you use the poem to alter the course on them). Some might think its too complicated, I disagree, reading a topographic map is more difficult in some ways. They are readily and freely available.

        But even if it isn’t pilot chart related, I still believe that one of the clues leads to something that we need to interpret as a map. Exactly the way Jesse James and his gang carved maps into stones and hid them in trees. You find one of Jessies stones and it won’t help you unless you know how to interpret it! Well if we find Fenn’s stone (perhaps he didnt make it, he used an existing map but alters its course with the poem), we have the poem which is the legend required to interpret this map Fenns way.

        I know this sounds complicated, but trust me it isn’t. I just suck at writing. Just imagine the poem leading you to “the right map”, you then work the remaider of the clues on THAT map. This will give you the confidence to walk right to the chest without having to use ciphers, anagrams, codes, or any coordinates in the poem itself. The coordinates, in a sense, exist at where the clues lead you IMO.

      • Very interesting JDA.
        “What if” f is very intuitive like Skippy was supposed to be and this is why?

        But I really should not get started on the ” what ifs” right now that’s what got me where I am and it’s a bit exhausting and it’s already late.

        Maybe I’ll return to this thread tomorrow and “what if” it real good. Haha!

    • WY,

      I always enjoy reading your theories. I’m with you on some of these thoughts. I beleive the final solution , the final “right map” will be built by our ability to not only see and apply what once was and what is now, but also what will be and what still needs to be done. Past, present, and future. Example: In the final scene of the movie Titanic the old lady passes on and the movie eventually takes you to the sunken wreckage as it is now. The present. As you float through the lit up ship the scenery begins to transform into it’s former glory. You see all the extravagance from days long gone. What once was. The past. End scene, roll credits. What you don’t really think about is whats happens next. The crews leave, the rover does too , and the lights go out. You can invision the cold, dark future of days to come. Three completely different scenarios, three completely different time periods, same ship. All with a story to tell. As the story changes so does your perspective and so do the definitions.

      Anyway. Just a thought. Good luck friends.

      mthead

      • I like what you are saying, and yeah if that necklace from the Titanic were real, in that movie alone it had two stories, if the movie continued it would have another if it was found.

        Thats the exciting thing about what Forrest did during his life. When you find something and hold it, it might not have been held in hundreds or thousands of years. You have to wonder what the person was doing when they lost it, etc. Not only to learn about the item history, but maybe even get clues to its past that can lead you to more treasure.

        Well said mt. I think FF is sending us on an expidition, he wants to lead us to the chest indirectly by making us discover the past of what we find when at the place which leads us to the chest. I think the poem leads us to a final object, then the rest of the poem is applied to that object to get to the chest. This is why I feel that nobody can stumble on the chest, it is hidden off the beaten path, and unless you figure out the poem the object you are looking at will lead you to something else (maybe it leads to Old Faithful for example).

        Does this mean boots on the ground is required to solve all 9 clues? Unfortunately, as much as I do not like it, I feel it does. Now of course if you can get a photograph of this item/thingamajig/whatever, sure you can solve it at home. There may even be a picture of it already, in fact it might be right in our face hidden as a map of the Rocky Mountains NP in Colorado for example, or maybe its a blaze at the park which takes you to a overlook, something like that. But again, you don’t follow it to the overlook, you modify the directions with the poem and go somewhere else.

        If FF did something like this, it is going to be around for a VERY long time. Whats funny is its a very public place many people might ignore because “why would Fenn end his life on the grandstand at Old Faithful?”. Well what if the on site map to O.F. when modified takes you instead to a small hidden waterfall somewhere outside the park? People would stare at that sign for decades and never know it leads to 2 million dollars IF you alter it with Fenns poem.

        I think this theory is more plausible than using airnav charts, its even more permanent because something such as Old Faithfull is not moving unless a major thing happens. And the marker, especially if carved in stone, is not going to change if its in a protected area. A small wooden map might change, so we are looking for something more permanent such as a huge petroglyh/map in stone.

    • WyMustIGo wrote:
      “What if the chest is sitting inside or under an old retired monument at a place where old monuments exist. If it were an old car it might be a junk yard.”
      ———————————————————–
      Places created by humans can, and often do, change. With what you have described, there’s way too much likelihood for the chest to be accidentally discovered; it could not survive at such a place for even a hundred years, far less a thousand.

      “Maybe the chest isn’t there, but a clue is.”
      —————————————————–
      FF has clearly said that the poem leads to the treasure chest itself, not to some further clue.

      Ken (in Texas)

      • Fenn did not say it that way Ken, you added the word “itself”. The poems CLUES will lead you directly to the chest, which is exactly what I described.

        Second, I did not only say it is in a place created by humans, if you continue reading you will see that I said it could be at a place where the item on display existed in the past. Many things at that Cody west town did not originate in Wyoming, they were moved from states such as Montanta to be preserved. It could be that the chest is at the place they were before.

        Third, a monument in a national park is not likely to change for hundreds if not thousands of years. For example, I just don’t see Old Faithfull moving across the country.

        I am not the best writer, but you need to take my statements in context, not separated out like that. I’m not trying to state a fact, I am just putting out some interesting “what ifs”. I think we need to take new things into consideration because the same old stuff has failed for over six years.

  18. “I could have written the poem before I hid the treasure, but I didn’t do that.” F. Mysterious writings/Jenny Kile.
    Kinda blows a hole in everyone’s theory that the treasure was hid around 2009! That being said, going by F’s statement, the treasure was hid between 1988-1994.
    OR…the poem was created like an architect, piece by piece, then the treasure hid and the poem pieced together/written and published.
    To me, doesn’t make a difference, but at Thanksgiving, I sure opened a can of worms at the table by bringing this up!
    Now, I’m thinking…why would this be an important fact and how would it effect the solve? Are dates important and do they give numbers needed for coordinates? Some think 15 is important, and this relates…the treasure hidden 15 yrs before the poem! Was it so the oxidation and patina blend the chest with nature because it’s under a tree? Many have said they felt F camouflaged the box.
    Maybe I’m thinking too much, or maybe I’m thinking along the right tracks.
    ¥Peace ¥

    • In one video, Fenn said something like “It took 15 years from when I had cancer until I hid the treasure”. Not a single word about the poem, he clearly said 15 years till he hid the treasure.

      To me this means he hid it in 2002-2003. Why did he say 2009/2010? He didn’t. He said he hid it when he was 79 or 80. He turned 80 in 2010. However, he is a non fiction writer and thus can tell fibs 15% of the time according to him. He also tells us in TTOTC how Sloane used to lie about his age and add 5 or 10 years to his birthdate to make people think he is younger. Well he might have fibbed and added 5-6 years to the date he really hid it. And yes, his friends seen the chest, but can they prove it was “the chest”? Suppose it was a copy of the original? Can they prove the contents? Nope, I am sure Fenn has plenty of gold nuggets, coins, gems to fill a chest, in addition to the fact that he said nobody seen the chest at the time he finished filling it and closed it.

      • I think yes you are on2 something here Wy and yes he did say fifisteen years. I think all the stories are important.

        Totem caper café
        Anything about wayflies – dragonfly etc…

    • Donna-
      That statement turned many of the things Forrest has said about hiding the treasure and writing the poem into a crossword puzzle of sorts. However, it is not a “theory” that Forrest hid the treasure when he was 79 or 80 years old. He has stated that in many, many interviews including this one from 2013 on radio powerhouse WGN in Chicago…
      Early in the interview he answers a question about just when he hid the chest…
      There are several possible “mistakes” in this interview…which makes it interesting listening…
      Forrest mentions his age when he hid the treasure very near the start of the interview…about 40seconds in.
      http://lummifilm.com/blog/WGN2013.mp3

      • Then again, he also said as a non fiction writer he only needs to tell the truth 85% of the time. Didn’t his father always say something about telling the truth, but not all of the truth. He also seems to like the fact that Eric Sloane sometimes lied about his age to make him appear younger than he really was.

        Yep, he said he hid the treasure when he was 79 or 80, but could he have hid it when he was 72 and pulled an Eric Sloane?

        He is a wise man, but I take what he says with a grain of salt, not because I think he is dishonest or being misleading, but simply based on the stories told in TTOTC.

        Regarding mistakes, it has always struck me as odd when he says “If you’ve been brave and in the wood” instead of “If you are brave and in the wood”. It has to be a slipup from an earlier version, having worked on the poem for so long I cannot see how it would not be comitted to memory. Most of us seem to have it memorized better than he does sometimes, but our mind does not have early revisions in it. So could this mean that the tense of having been brave and in the wood as opposted to currently brave and in the wood matter?

        In one interview he doesn’t mention the poem at all, he says “I hid the treasure 15 years after getting cancer”. Then in others it was the poem that took 15 years. To top that off, he said something to the effect of “if I changed my mind I could always go back and get it”, well if he hid it in say 2010, that gives him what, 9 months to change his mind from when the book was released (I am assuming he cannot change is mind once the book was out there).

        For all we know he could have hidden two treasures, one in 2002/03 and another in 2009/10. I suppose we will never know until it is found, or maybe not even then. He will never tell anyone before hand, thats for sure.

        I don’t think he gets annoyed when people do not believe he hid it in 2009/2010, I’ve told him many times, I even went so far as telling him exactly how I think he hid the chest with his plane. He still replied to some emails (not chase related) after I did that, so I don’t think I made him mad.

        I trust what he says 85% of the time 🙂

      • If you notice around the 4:41 minute mark of this same interview, Forrest says he worked on and tweaked the poem about 12 years before he hid the treasure, unlike the 15 years he has been using for the past many years when he says how long he worked on the poem. It seems to me that the number of years he tweaked the poem is insignificant, especially since it doesn’t mean he worked on the poem everyday for 12 or 15 consecutive years.

        And for all you new folks who think all the old folks had everything wrong for the last six years, just remember some searchers got within 200 feet of the treasure chest in 2012. So don’t be so quick to dismiss all that good information that has since been archived on both this blog and ChaseChat. I, unfortunately, was not searching BOTG in 2012 so that wasn’t me that was within 200 feet, but I wish it was!

        • I think the people who were within 200 feet are not the same people who had the first two clues correct. Also, when asked if it was a man or a woman who was the closest, he said it was a man (but the man may have had a female with him). So it was a team that was close IMO.

          Regarding 15 years, keep in mind that in one video he does not mention the poem, he says “hid the treasure 15 years after getting cancer” or something along those lines, but did not mention the poem. It was in a short interview when he was asked when he hid the treasure.

          I guess the only fact we have is that he will never say when he hid the chest. He does say when he when he was 79 or 80, but he could be pulling a Sloane.

          It matters for one reason, and that reason would explain how it might be in a state far away from New Mexico. I think it is a huge mistake to think he had a limited ability to travel when he hid the chest. He wasn’t sick or dying when he hid the chest, and to top that off when his father was sick and dying, Forrest managed to take him Fishing up near Montana.

          We make a lot of assumptions, myself included over the past 2.5 years. I used to assume that the places the clues are, well at least the 9th clue, had to be secluded and large enough to hold his corpse because he said he wanted to die there with the treasure. So it seemed realistic to assume this. However, when did he say that he was going to die where the 9 clues exist? Never.

          He says the 9 clues will lead us to the chest, right? He says once we solve all 9 clues we will walk with confidence directly to the chest, right? If you listen closely to what I just asked and what he says, the poem doesn’t lead to the chest, the clues, when followed in order will lead you there. That is a big difference and to me it means that the clue solutions themselves provide the directions.

          Since not a single person (according to FF’s last statement when asked) has gotten more than 2 clues correct, maybe the people who have the first two clues need to go take a good look at the place they lead to, chances are that you will not get past the 3rd clue without completely understanding the first two, which might mean BOTG.

          Another posibility is that we are trying to apply all 9 clues to the same map (GE/Atlas/Topographic). Maybe that is the wrong map? Maybe there is no map past the first two clues, but when on site it will be obvious where to apply the other 7 clues? No way to know, but I would hope a map is involed, some other map, if not then unfortunately I will start to believe BOTG is required as much as I do not want that to be true.

          Think about this… There are many VERY smart people who have been at it for almost 6.5 years. Forrest is a smart man, but there is always someone smarter. He claims the poem is straight forward, he is almost laughing at how complicated some people make it out to be . So what would be the reason nobody can prove that they had more than 2 clues correct? The only thing I can come up with is that very few searchers (serious searchers) ever had BOTG. We love to work the poem from home, me too. I’ve been BOTG a total of 4 times only, I try to do most of the work at home, well maybe that is our downfall?

          Before someone replies and says they have 3 clues, 5 clues, 8 or 9 clues solved, my response is where is the chest? Nobody can make the claim of more than 2 clues because that is all Forrest has ever validated, so in order to make the claim you need the chest.

          Note: I REALLY hope I am 100% wrong about BOTG being required to get clues 3-9. Either way, nobody except FF can say I am correct or I am wrong, we can only speculate.

          Anyway, I wish everyone luck! I hope it is found while FF is still around, just because I feel it would be great if he goes knowing that he was proven to not be a fraud.

          • WyMustIGo … with all due respect to your Cody, Wyoming “monument” solution (you could be right), I think you are engaging in confirmation bias in some of your statements above.

            FF has said so many things that are contradictory that to select one of his comments and discard the opposing comment is the very essence of confirmation bias. I prefer to discard all of his contradictory statements.

          • Ken, I never posted a solve anywhere, I am just throwing out “what ifs” that are plausible.

            You are correct that he says many conflicting things though.

            My current solve is the same as the one I had for almost 2 years, but it is not complete. These ideas such as airnav charts, new/old monuments, etc are just theories that I am using to try and complete the poem past the first clues. I can’t afford to travel 2200 miles often enough to test things, so I try to get as much done before I am ready to look. My area is large, I need to get it narrowed down more before I can walk right to anything other than sagebrush 😀

          • WyMustIGo;

            You say, “He says the 9 clues will lead us to the chest, right? He says once we solve all 9 clues we will walk with confidence directly to the chest, right? If you listen closely to what I just asked and what he says, the poem doesn’t lead to the chest, the clues, when followed in order will lead you there. That is a big difference and to me it means that the clue solutions themselves provide the directions. ”

            I am dense I guess. I see NO difference in saying “the poem doesn’t lead to the chest, the clues, when followed in order will lead you there.” The clues are IN the poem so the clues within the poem lead you to the chest. – So the poem leads you to the chest. Where am I missing the boat? JDA

          • If the poem sent you to a spot that had a blaze in the form of a sign or some images carved in a 10 ton block of stone, you would not read it or look at it?

            That would be a huge mistake if you went BOTG and did not observe your surroundings very close.

            You like to quote Fenn, well go look up the quote where he discusses the people who were within 200 feet and says something like “They did not realize the significance of where they were”.

            Or how about the other ones like “As far as he is aware, nobody has more than 2 clues figured out”.

            Or this one where he says “They had the correct first two clues but walked right past the other 7 clues”.

            Well, perhaps the reason why that happened is people were not paying attention to what is invovled at each clue!

            Fenn never said that the 9 clues do not lead to things we need to observe. He also never said that the clues are meant to be applied to a specific map. Suppose the right map hasn’t been found? Suppose the map is the poem and the clues tell you how to follow the correct steps?

            If you want to sit there and fit each clue to a spot in Google Earth, there is nothing wrong with that. Tens of thousands of people have done that for almost 7 years, and yet nobody has the chest, and according to fenn nobody has more than 2 clues solved that he knows of. He also pretty much states the chest has not been found!

            What does all this mean? It means we have been missing something important! Forrest even hints at this! Not in tight focus with a word that is key, not looking at the big picture, not considering the “what ifs”, the poem is straight forward, etc. So clearly even Forrest agrees that we need to try and think of other things.

            + I’ve suggested using navaid charts, they are maps just like any other map
            + I’ve suggested the poem may be describing a flight (use your imagination)
            + I’ve suggested the maps might be carvings/petroglyphs, or even a famous map in a musem or national park not likely to chage if it is historical.
            + I’ve suggested that one or more of the clue locations help lead to the chest, not just the 9 clues themselves.
            + I’ve suggested that he created a map of some sort, stuck it in a bronze box or jar, and the clues lead to it. When you get it and decode it with the poem, you go right to the chest.

            All perfectly reasonable, can’t prove any of it, but at least it isn’t the same old crap like the continental divide, flaming gorge, madison river, Taos NM, etc etc etc. Time to broaden our horizons, I am not the only one who wasted time on the same old failing theories.

            Enjoy

        • WymustIgo;

          In a statement above you say,” However, when did he say that he was going to die where the 9 clues exist? Never.

          From the cheat Sheet, there is the following: “♦ Q: Are you willing to say whether the place of the treasure chest is the same as the one where you had previously plotted to have your bones rest forever? “Yes it is.

          Pretty straight and to the point. JDA

          • JDA,
            Have some questions adout your solve. Now that it’s winter and emotions have cooled a little and we are not all chomping at the bit to get BOTG and are starting to plan for next year…..
            Can we talk by email ( I noticed in the past you gave your email address to searchers)? Don’t want to share thoughts of my solve on the blog.

          • No JDA, he did not say the clues, he said the chest. Did you read what I wrote? hehe

            My statement is 100% true, “when did he say that he was going to die where the 9 clues exist? Never. ”

            He said he wanted to die where the chest is, not at the locations where the 9 clues themselves exist.

          • WY Girl;

            If you have emailed me, I have not gotten it. Some people have problems with aol. Try a couple of times, or email Dal and have him send me your address. JDA

  19. Anybody else notice f’s cancer was kidney cancer then it was vena cava cancer? Were they the same cancer that was in an area? Or did he hide something else in a story again?

  20. It wasn’t the turkey and all the fixings that did me in…it was too many pieces of pie over the course of two days! No pineapple pie…just pumpkin and apple crumb. It seems like I better get out and do some hiking to get back into searching shape…

  21. …”thread a tract through the wiles of nature…” This has nagged at me for a long time. When I interpret using common definitions, the meaning becomes more than ambiguous. The word “thread”, hints at the word clew for example. That darned ball of string pops up again! Using the ball of string to work through the labyrinth… “wiles”, suggests some interesting thoughts as well. Is trickery/ambiguity part of the equation?

    • What about “tract”? In literature it refers to verse usually religious in nature. Could it be biological in nature?… or does it relate to a tract of land large or small ? Or, is this one of fenn’s substitutions for the word track/trail/path ?

  22. I would like to revisit the “What ifs” again after doing some research.
    The statement by Forrest: (I should note: these weekly words were sent to me recently to use for today)
    http://mysteriouswritings.com/weekly-words-from-forrest-march-4th-2016/
    *After reading HOD I am prompted to ask, have you considered the “what ifs?”

    Go back to ( https://dalneitzel.com/2016/02/18/odds-n-ends-about-fenns-treasure-hunt-5/ ) before the statement from Forrest & you will see there were 3 bloggers that mentioned “What if’s”.

    charlie – https://dalneitzel.com/2016/02/18/odds-n-ends-about-fenns-treasure-hunt-5/#comment-124116
    “what if the poem gives you a distance of feet to walk?”

    Moose – https://dalneitzel.com/2016/02/18/odds-n-ends-about-fenns-treasure-hunt-5/#comment-124538
    “what if he has it and won’t tell us”

    theycallme9clues – https://dalneitzel.com/2016/02/18/odds-n-ends-about-fenns-treasure-hunt-5/#comment-124570
    “What if Fenn’s ‘home of Brown’ isn’t an exact physical location but more of a generality? A gag of sorts.”

    I eliminate the statement by “Moose” for obvious reasons & that leaves 2 bloggers that I believe Forrest was talking about if this is HOD.

    The only blogger that mentions HOB & “What if” is – theycallme9clues.
    I think we have a winner..

    • What does HOD stand for? There are so many letters people use on here. Sorry if I have a stupid question.

      • Heidini,
        The consensus here is that HOD is Home of Dal or this website.
        There were conversations going on here about a couple of weeks before Forrest came out with that statement about “What if’s”

        Many here have speculated what it’s about, but I like to look in the recent past to see if there is a connection to why he added those weekly words & there is.

    • @Jake – Not sure about that.

      – Google string: “what if” site:dalneitzel.com
      – Click Search Tools
      – Change Any Time to 01/01/2009 through 03/04/2016

      Result is 13 pages of “what if” hits.

      • Your dates are way off EC,
        Why would you go back to 2009 when the new statement was published March 4th 2016.

        Something recently was said before March 4th 2016 on this blog which caused him to change gears & say something new.

        Do individual page searches as I have with “what if” & you will see.
        If you just rely on Google for this one, it doesn’t help much.

        • @Jake – I don’t limit the set to anything recent because there is no instruction to limit it. To limit it would be to make an assumption or a leap that you know the cause, that something recent triggered him to “change direction” (as if the prior direction was predictable) and post that comment. I simply haven’t made that leap.

          It would be more prudent to examine the whole set and look for something you weight as significant. If what you’re saying is that you believe you have found significance with “home of Brown” is a gag because he used “HOD”, ok, cool. But I’m just not there yet.

      • There are “what ifs” scattered throughout this site but I would think it’s something recently said.

        You also have to consider this time period was shortly after the search for Randy & that pretty much sucked up all our focus including Forrest for the beginning of the year & sort of puts things in a different light as well as resetting the search clock IMO.

        It’s only human nature.

        • Get back in the box- people were being to abstract with their thinking AND their actions… the place is safe, don’t go anywhere a 79 or 80 year old couldn’t go back and forth twice in a few hours. Sorry- “several” hours!

          As far as the what ifs? I have a few thoughts.

          • Would you like to share your “what if” thoughts heidini?
            Or maybe you just like to tell us people what to do even though most of us already know what to do?

        • Jake- I’m not sure how to take that comment. I realize there isn’t a sarcasm emoji/ font, so I will just assume you meant only fun and nice things.

        • Jake, I was actually trying to agree with you. I was only restating what f has already said to all of us. Emphasizing safety considering what happened to Randy. I assume you already did know everything I said. I don’t understand why you came across to me as hostile.

    • Jake, good point.

      I remember reading that comment too and agreeing that it is definately possible. Just like as when I was a kid in the 60’s we had local names for areas “Ealges Field, 40 Horses, etc”. So it can make sense that “home of Brown” could just as easily been “Jacks Corner”, it might just be a label given to the place that is described by “Begin it where…”. Its kinda funny too because FF knew people would be running all over looking for everything Brown 😀

      Nice Jake!

      • I have to add this too

        After reading what theycallme9clues said (and not even noticing that FF might have been referring to it, I never made that connection until you just did), I started to consider maybe hoB is a clue, but nobody considered what “put in” means.

        At first I thought of two things:
        1 – Put in is telling you that is where “something” described by the previous sentence is put-in. Put-in might not mean we are supposed to get out of the boat, move off the trail, or whatever.
        2 – Or maybe put-in doesn’t mean exit or leave our current trail by water or foot (most consider put in to mean enter or exit a waterway), maybe it means to land a plane.

        I currently have two solves, one using each of those two definitions. They both have a hoB, but one is based on flying in for the first few clues, then using the rest BOTG. The other is using a geological feature that is put in or exists below a hoB.

        So maybe theycallme9clues was right about the piece of the poem, but it isn’t hoB we are to reconsider, it might be the meaning of “Put in”.

    • I agree with the ‘home of Brown’ needing more ‘what ifs’ analysis.

      …Many are giving serious thought to the clues in my poem, but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key. ff
      Posted on February 4, 2014 by Jenny Kile

      …What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve. ff
      Posted on February 4, 2015 by Jenny Kile

      *After reading HOD I am prompted to ask, have you considered the “what ifs?”
      Posted on March 4, 2016 by Jenny Kile

      I wonder if someone is getting closer for next years’ progress report…

      • OZ,
        I don’t know if someone is getting close. There are a lot of people searching for this treasure and the great majority don’t post publically. I personally feel I’m halfway to a winning solve.

        I would be curious to know where others are in their solves. But alas most searchers hold their cards tight to their chests.

        • Jake,

          Yes,I was talking specifically about those 2 comments, the what ifs? and the ‘important possibility’.
          I thought it will be interesting if he says that ‘some are now analyzing that one important possibility regarding the winning solve’ next year. But yes he doesn’t have to say anything at all and it may be better that way.

          Regarding the home of Brown, that is one though banana but what if 9clues was close and it is a ‘gag of sorts’. Like when we say ‘not everything is black or white, there are gray areas’. Could Brown be a gray or an in between, middle of the road kind of measure?

    • OK heidini,
      So I can see you know how to copy & paste.

      You say: “I have seen others say”.

      Do you agree with them or just saying you have seen others POV & have non of your own?

      I have also seen this & many more but also speak my mind & contribute what I think.

    • The whole too far to walk thing seems wrong to me. I know plenty of Texans and other people with a southern drawl, and not one of them pronounces far as four, not even close, it sounds more like fire than four.

      When a southerner says for, to me it sounds more like fo-hah. So if the line was “too for to walk” I could see 2-4-2.

      I’ll pass on that hehe

          • Love this video, he says “If you’ve been brave” instead of the published “If you are brave”. Amazing for someone who worked on it for 15 years 🙂

          • What I see & hear in this video makes me think that line is not a clue.
            How could you mess a line that’s one of the clues in your own poem?
            Yes, straight forward, got to be brave & in the woods.

        • ” Ah gots me dem cup’l chikns dare and dem cup’l chikns yond’r ”

          That’s how! 😛

        • The same way they say for, which does not sound the same when saying far.

          But of course if you think too far to walk sounds like 2-4-2, go for it 🙂

        • @Jonesy1 – to your question, you are asking about vowel breaking, or drawl… where four, a one-syllable word would be stretched into two syllables using a smooth bridge (not a hard stop). Four becomes foe-er. Sore becomes sow-er.

          In the sense of others suggesting far becomes four, this is acceptable creativity with interpreting Fenn’s intentions, but is not related to drawl, or what is known in the USA as stereotypical Southern diction.

          My sense is that you weren’t asking because you didn’t know, but to call it out.

          • Further on this, I suspect what the posters might be suggesting is actually more of a St. Louis conversion of far / four, and in this sense, just the older crowd of St. Louis regionals. Listen good while you’re there and you’ll occasionlly hear something like “I ate far cans of carn with a fark and then had to worsh my sharts”.

          • just make sure your put the em-PHASS-is on the right syl-LABBLE. 🙂 In Texas you can say “all”. To a Texan “all” is that black stuff you get out of the ground. It’s spelled “oil” but pronounced “oil”.

          • EC,
            Had no idea you were funny! You always seem like a studious researcher type. I seems like everyone is trying to be from the South today. 🙂

          • Sorry, one final thought I find curious on this short thread of diphthongs and monophthongs, and then I’ll drop it.

            What *might* be possible in the context of a Southern drawl would be to convert “fire” to “fah”. Or another option would just be “far” to “fah”, where then the sound becomes like “too fah”. One creative stretch for this would be the word “tufa”, somewhat related to Fenn’s affinities for soda. But this is a very very long stretch in my opinion.

      • Wy,
        Very interesting and informative perspectives on the poem v. Clues. My only to your analysis of the “southern accents”. I think most Texans (myself included) would say Texas has a lingo all its own and “southern” doesn’t quite fit. If you compare a Texan with someone from Alabama, for example the Texan will have a different twang so to speak. Sorry to get sidetracked as I am finding your thoughts very enlightening. Thanks.

  23. Excuse me for the interuption, but can anyone help a fellow blogger who’s down on her signal? 😉
    I’m looking for the scrapbook (an early one), where forrest is seated on a hearth in his home , waiting for an early morning interview. The wooden maiden statue stands behind him and the skull is on the wall, it’s dark outside…anyone?
    Much thanks, in advance! 🙂

  24. Upthread, Jake Faulker wrote : “before the statement from Forrest & you will see there were 3 [HOD] bloggers that mentioned “What if’s””, on the assumption that FF responded the way he did, based on what FF had read from posters here on the HOD blog.

    Jake Faulker, I gather that you think FF is motivated almost entirely by what he reads among the comments made by posters here, as if our posted comments are the center of the treasure chest universe. If that’s what you are implying, I seethe.

    This website represents mostly just popular opinion about the poem and treasure chest. Popular opinion in no way guarantees the truth, either to the poem’s clues or to the chest’s location. As posters, let’s not over-inflate either our importance or our supposed chase wisdom. Thousands of people have done research and searched BOTG for that chest. Regular posters here make up a tiny percentage of those searchers.

    To presume that poster xyz is “the winner”, as you state, for getting FF to respond reeks of presumptuousness. Maybe poster xyz did influence FF in some way. But to so state that as your definite conclusion, without confirmation from FF, leads to egocentricity and possibly delusion. No one here, including poster xyz, has as yet found the chest. No one here need overvalue what they think they know or what they think another poster knows.

    As treasure chest seekers, let’s display a bit more humility and self-restraint.

    Ken (in Texas)

    • I don’t think Jake meant that somehow the people of HoD are the bright eye’d winners and are somehow special.

      To me all Jake did was point out that Fenn threw a bone to searchers who post here and on any blog (even though the comment was in fact directed at HoD since FF mentioned it).

      Jake thinks the hint was we need to ask questions about the last sentence in Stanza 2, being “Put in below the home of Brown”. I think Jake is on to something, could it be that too many people think “home of Brown” is a house, ranger station, waters with trout, locations with grizzly populations, etc when in fact home of Brown might mean nothing at all? Or maybe too many people think “put in” means we leave or enter a river when maybe it has nothing to do with the nautical definition?

      I do not think Jake was doing anything other than explaining his opinion about what he thinks FF meant. I do not think Jake is bragging that somehow people here are special.

      • BTW Ken, Forrest clearly stated he read posts on house of Dal. So what is wrong with Jake trying to figure out who recently asked questions (or what-if’s) that this may have applied to? What on Earth else would Fenn be talking about when he clearly said he was reading content here?

        • FEBRUARY 2016 {28th}
          by dal…
          Spring is coming…I need a plan…

          March 4th, 2016, are as follows: *After reading HOD I am prompted to ask, have you considered the “what ifs?”

          • https://dalneitzel.com/2016/01/11/odds-n-ends-about-fenns-treasure-hunt-4/#comment-123086
            “What IF… it’s just the opposite… We buy the book, that holds the poem, Told the the poem contains 9 clues, Now~ read the poem as it only tells us, how to read the book to find the chest. Clues in the poem are just that alone, clues hinting to answers of “How to read the book again” to find the answers.”

            Maybe this is the what if?
            There’s a few more conversations about the “what if’s” but some don’t relate to the solve.
            Seeker, you have a couple back in Feb.

          • Went back to double check the timelines. My conclusion is;
            ‘I’ can’t argue with ‘me’ or ‘myself.’

          • Yes Seeker, you are right. But seriously I think I’ve seen you do just that. But I could be getting the timelines mixed up. Most of the time I’m catching up and read linearly not real time. 🙂

      • Thanks for the vote of confidence Wy,
        The reason I brought this up again is because I hate loose ends that need to be tied.

        I like to look at the facts & then speculate on the why.
        Fact: Forrest interrupted his regularly scheduled Weekly Words to add the “What if’s”.
        When someone interrupts themselves it sends up a red flag.
        As you said, we know he reads the blogs.

        Look at Fridays WW’s for example where he also interrupted the norm.
        “*Don’t ever let desire for the treasure lure you into a dangerous situation. f”
        Very important info here. Don’t put yourselves in a dangerous situation.
        Why did he post this now? Obviously, winter has moved in & doesn’t want to experience anyone else getting hurt or die.

  25. Older posts and responses from Forrest ended in ff. Does anyone know when he switched to the single f?

    Thanks

  26. All,
    What are everyone’s thoughts on keeping caught up on the blog?

    I have gotten some very good, not sure what to call it, ideas, different perspectives maybe, from the blog since I started following the threads but I really almost feel it’s a big ball of string unless you can follow closely and while that’s possible some of the time it’s not feasible to do all the time.

    Anyone else have thoughts on this?

    • Follow what Mr. Fenn has told us and enjoy what others suggest. Many post great thoughts, it’s up to us to decide if they lead us in the correct direction. I’ve enjoyed the many strings I’ve tangled myself in. 🙂

      • I bet you have pd. 🙂 You seem like a deep thinker that just watches and thinks and enjoys the search for what it is 🙂

        • I’ve enjoyed every moment of the chase. The research has been so much fun and became all the more wiser.

          • Oh yes pd! I think that what I’ve enjoyed most so far is the learning. I’ve learned many, many great things to know and look forward to learning many more.
            I know this is the old cliched thing half the people on the blogs say but I’m gonna say it anyway- it’s not about the money as much as solving the puzzle.
            I just want Mr. Fenn to be alive when this thing gets solved! I wonder if he would consent to sit down with the finder and go through the chest piece by piece and give the provinence of each piece? Dal could record it and that could be part of the history of the chase. How cool would that be! ( of course we are all rooting for Dal to be the finder! The thing I can’t figure out is why Dal hasn’t found it yet? He’s extremely bright and seems to be asking all the right questions and he’s had six years.)
            Ok, I’m done putting the cart before the horse. 🙂

          • I would love to learn more about the pieces and why Mr. Fenn chose them. The vignettes on this blog describes some of them.

          • WY girl….”why Dal hasn’t found it yet?”

            You know folks like him and Goof took fenn’s “Lil girl from India” comment as gospel. IMO
            Why sell yourself short? It’s the information-superhighway folks & I’m not exiting until they enact a toll.

          • You are correct 9clues; Fenn’s statement and associated comment is very clear. In my opinion Fenn wanted to stop people from obsessing over some magic solution in front of a screen wasting their time and driving their family and friends nuts. I believe it goes along with Fenn saying he is stepping away from his computer on doctor’s orders. It is unhealthy to do what Fenn, and a lot of people, are doing. The chase is about being out in nature, not staring at a screen.

            Good luck to you and the others trapped on the information-superhighway to oblivion.

          • @Goofy – before info on computers was so accessible, we spent all of our time in libraries building our confidence. Respectfully, until we can walk right to it, we shouldn’t spend resources and environmental hazard risks out looking for it, in my opinion, unless it’s for vacationing with a purpose.

          • E.C., I’ve had to spend much time in libraries with a slide rule in the old days, it was a necessary evil. I find your statement very sad and indicative of today’s society. You folks just don’t get it and probably never will.

            Very sad state of affairs indeed.

          • @Goofy – well, I might word all of that a little differently. I would say we have different perspectives of the artfulness of outdoors, and quite likely different motivations for being in the Chase. I’m not sad about my approaches or adaptations, and I’ve been out looking many times. I’d say at this point I’m regretful for not spending enough time researching instead of taking the investment risks for being out looking. While each time I went I went with a plan, I was over-confident with my proposed solutions. Now I’m thorough, and spending time researching seems a more cost effective use of my time.

          • Goof (grumpster)
            Reality TV, honestly is there nothing else on?
            Missing my point my dear fellow, I was simply adding to what the sewing circle was harping about…R-E-A-D-I-N-G
            Maybe I wasn’t as fortunate as some, having never spent any time in the RMs [my folks never slowed the car- let alone stop while we were on trips cross country]
            Now i have a greater appreciation for explorers, pioneers & settlers, trouble is my buck-list keeps overflowing. Wonder if Josh Gates ever reads HoD? (could he be pretending to be Jake?)
            Btw, I think ff muddied- up that issue superbly…politics, he should have gone into politics

          • 9clues: “Wonder if Josh Gates ever reads HoD? (could he be pretending to be Jake?)”

            I was wondering when someone would figure that out.
            I actually thought you were pretending to be Forrest Fenn.

          • Goofy and others – I’m in the camp that most if not all of the clues can be solved from somewhere other than on site. I know that is not a popular belief and I used to be in the camp that was skeptical about that being the case.

            I whole heartedly agree that Forrest wanted to get people out exploring and experiencing the wonders of the Rockies. In a way his plan has worked because it has drawn in many who will search while taking a vacation. More people have experienced the raw awesomeness of the Rockies than if they had not taken up the challenge. With that being said I don’t think that the one who finds the chest is going to be able to solve the clues while out searching.

            Enter TLGFI or TLGII. She can’t get closer than the first two clues. There has been plenty of discussion on this topic and I won’t beat it to death except to say that she might not be able to get closer than the first 2 clues because her map is too broad. Maybe she needs the “right” map in order to move forward in solving the clues. When you think back to other treasure hunts, most of them require one component in order to find the treasure. A good map.

            In reality I don’t think Forrest would expect searchers to spend vast amounts of time and resources searching the Rockies with BOTG to find the chest. You have to be wise in how you approach this if you really want to solve what f has created. Again this is IMO.

          • Hear me all,
            I’m going to second what you stated for the most part. The poem has done exactly what it was intended for… to get folks out. On the flip side, the challenge is a thinking game. Personally, I think we are taking the map thing into overkill.
            I’m leaning towards a map is a map, the more detailed a map the better.

            I’ll raise this question again… What details our we looking for? Not unlike the clues themselves, imo, we tend to force place onto many types of maps. I think we actually can draw a map from the poem. The problem is, are we seeing the same details as fenn?

            It is interesting that fenn wants folks out exploring, yet tell us an important tool is an electric mapping system… A good map?
            We been told the poem holds all the information.
            We have been told the book will help { adding; the average person }.
            We have been told GE ~ and / or ~ a good map.
            Not both, “and / or”… either… one or the other… say it anyway ya like, IMO, GE has the capability to show us the correct map. LOL.. now we just need to figure out which one has the “details.” Or imo, the “correct details.”

            I would add another thought to the map…. the word that is key… This may not be a word that will unlock the poem, but a word that is most important to the poem. A word that is used twice in the poem… water[s].

            The chest is in the mountain N. of SF…. begin it where.

          • Seeker –
            You stated,
            Personally, I think we are taking the map thing into overkill.
            I’m leaning towards a map is a map, the more detailed a map the better.

            You seem to contradict yourself when you say a map is a map but then say the more detailed the better. If a map is just a map then why don’t we use a map of the Andes? You don’t need just any map but a specific map and yes the more detailed the better. GE is convenient and useful for some purposes but I offer from personal experience that it is nowhere detailed enough nor is it accurate like a good map will be.

            F is correct when he says the poem contains the information needed. That is a true statement however it might take a searcher a 1000 or more years to actually connect the dots without other tools like the book and a good map. IMO the book and a good map work in conjunction with the poem. It’s similar to a 3 legged stool. Without one of those items it will be much more difficult to figure things out. Why not use all of the tools that f has suggested?

            You mentioned the keyword. IMO the keyword is almost as critical as the 9th clue. Without it, a searcher is doomed to search without having a shot at locating the treasure chest. Sure other treasures will be discovered along the journey but not the treasure chest.

          • Hear me all,
            You skipped over the part ~ “I’ll raise this question again… What details our we looking for?”

            We have been told…All the information to find the chest is in the poem… how do we use that information to relate to the “details” we need to know on a map, is the point.
            Example; stanza one, As I have gone alone in there… Should this part of the poem be a part needed for a map? One thought would be the RM’s themselves. { in the mountains N. of SF. }
            So now we have ‘A’ map with ‘A’ detail. Then we need to see what the other parts of the poem describe, and then detail that into the map.
            Fenn said an architect wrote the poem, so are we to build the map? Or do we simply read any and all maps to find answers to locations.

            Think about that before you respond. The information in the poem would help us create the “right” map with the details we truly need. So imo, if there is any labels needed, it should be in the poem.
            There are many wwwh in the RM’s, nearly all are N.of SF. … you over simplify the clues.
            Begin it where warm water[s] halt and take it in the canyon down, not far, but to far to walk. { theory here is all waters } So now we have Another map with all water[s] or the watershed… combined the two made maps… and continue the journey.
            I think you see where I’m going with this. No detail of roads, airports, names of locations etc etc. we may simply be making the map fenn “detailed” in the poem.
            The thing GE allows is overlaying of maps. { if that is the correct term to use } the options this tool has can make the job easier than gathering all the other maps.

            “C’mon now agent 777, a map is a map. The more detailed maps are most useful if you have the right map, but I’m not sure I needed to tell you that.f ”

            Where are we to find the “right” map?… all the information to find the chest is….

          • Seeker –
            You said.
            You skipped over the part ~ “I’ll raise this question again… What details our we looking for?”

            Did you by chance mean are instead of our? The way you have worded your question above does not make sense to me if you really mean our. Assuming you mean are, I can tell you that f has given us all we need in order to figure out those things. As he has said, go back to the poem. My advice is to go back to TTOTC which contains the poem and hints to the clues. I’m not going to give you the answers because f has already done that. You are great about reminding us of the things Forrest has stated in the past but at some point you have to think for yourself and connect his dots.

            As far as GE goes, please hurl it as far away from you as you can.

          • Hear me all ~” I’m not going to give you the answers because f has already done that.”
            I see, you think my question[s] are in the hope you’ll give me an answer. The questions I present are for thoughts.

            Some of you folks kill me… ” I’m not going to give you the answer” LOL. Ok Sherlock.

            HMA~ “You are great about reminding us of the things Forrest has stated in the past but at some point you have to think for yourself and connect his dots.”
            I truly find it funny that folks get upset if I quote fenn when they post a comment. Kinda like what you said; “As far as GE goes, please hurl it as far away from you as you can.”
            I’d remind you of fenn’s suggestion, but why bother…

            Well Hear me all, you might be correct. The chase might be a solo act after all… I’ll leave the Chit Chat for the braggers, fortune cookie tellers, and the ones who have all the answers.
            It’s time to go…

          • Seeker: replying by cellphone from NZ so not possible to cut & paste from your post, but I’ll try to address some of your points. Take with a grain of salt of course since my answers are derived from my own solution. You asked what details we are looking for (on maps) and whether we are to build the map. The answer to the latter is emphatically no. The answers are found on existing maps. For early clues the answers may be found on many, many different maps because fine detail is not needed. But beyond that, a better map will be required (E.g. a map of the Rockies won’t work). I get the sense that you aren’t fond of the idea that the labels on maps are potential answers to the clues, but they were for me. Forrest did say a map, not a picture, and what is a map without labels but a picture?

          • Seeker – I feel like I need to follow up with you regarding your latest post from yesterday.

            I did think that you were just digging for answers to clues without wanting to figure things out yourself. It’s hard to lend a hand to others in this chase without giving the farm away. Based on my own experience I can say that if the answers were spoon fed to me I would have felt let down. Secondly I would not have any confidence if the answers were just thrown out. Forrest is correct that it is the thrill in figuring it out yourself. I have had to ask many questions of myself and others while doing research in order to arrive at a location that I feel very good about. I don’t claim to know all the answers but I do have a solid understanding of the architecture that f created.

            I place a lot of weight on f’s comment about a comprehensive knowledge of geography being useful. We could argue about the use of GE vs. Google Maps vs. the right map forever. I agree with Zap that a detailed map is not needed for the first two clues. However from that point on without the right map a searcher will have EXTREMELY low odds of discovering any other clues. You can take it or leave it and most would choose to leave it and ignore f’s advice.

            Forrest created an out of this world chase for many. It still boggles my mind with how creative he can be. At the same time it’s not nearly as complicated as many are making it out to be. IMO he has given searchers plenty of information and many are quick to dismiss it or will go in another direction that is in conflict with what he has told us. One example of going in the opposite direction. I have noticed some searchers state that since he didn’t mention Colorado in his book that must be the state where he hid the chest because he wouldn’t dare give away details about the area let alone the state. I don’t believe that f is trying to make the chase impossible. If that were case we should look in all the places he does not mention. The following is IMO. He created the chase for a person/family/group to actually find what he has hidden. He has provided us with plenty of details that if used wisely will move you forward. I don’t believe he was playing games or really expected that the chase would last for as long as it has with the number of people involved. With the number of searchers that have become involved in the chase, I fully believe that he is somewhat surprised that nobody has figured it all out yet. Again I will say that I don’t have all the answers however I feel that someone will be able to walk to the chest before Fall of 2017. I realize that many make those predictions each year and you might dismiss me with but so be it.

            In closing I will say I don’t share my thoughts or ideas to throw others off the trail but to lend a little hand. There is nothing in it for me except to hopefully hear that another has experienced a moment of joy when they figure out a clue. I know from experience the true joy that I felt when I solved the first clue. I still revel in that moment from time to time. I’m not a teacher by trade but my career does allow me to educate my clients each day. Some don’t appreciate my guidance however many others are thankful for the information that I share with them. I wake up each day and try to help others with a positive attitude. If it doesn’t work at least I can say I tried.

      • I agree pdenver.

        Personally I love reading all ideas especially the ones tha tmake me think of something new, a new angle.

        The only posts I do not read are the condescending ones where the poster leaves very vague hints and then tries to make it sound like they know something nobody else knows. Fortunately that stuff mostly gets deleted here unlike places such as CC where you have a handful of people who “have it all solved” and yet they can’t back it up.

        The only downside to the blogs, scrapbooks, Q&A, and weekly words is that they open up a ton of rabbit holes.

        • I agree Other WY,
          I personally like rabbit holes because I love research and history and such, but I feel time is running out for too many rabbit holes anymore. I personally want to see this finished while f is still alive because I want to know “the rest of the story” among many, many other things that I think could be revealed if it happens while he is alive.
          Not to mention I think he would like to see it too, probably.
          The only problem is it is now winter and I really am skeptical about anything positive BOTG happening during winter.

    • So Wy Girl, you’re asking the folks that follow the blog if it’s a good idea to follow the blog????

      Here’s your sign…… 🙂

      • Thanks Goofy. For once you weren’t to grumpy in your answer. I know it was a stupid question but I literally have no one to talk to about this except myself. And I’m sure you know that’s one of the first signs you are going crazy. 🙂

        • When one doesn’t have anyone else to talk to, it’s fun to listen to what we have to say. We don’t disagree with what we say and we seem to be correct. Yes, I have talked to myself out loud and responded in the same way. Sometimes it organizes my thoughts and then I think some more. Then again, maybe I just like hearing myself talk. lol 🙂

        • something I haven’t shared before but started me on my journey….

          “Not far, but too far to walk.”

          If you aren’t walking, maybe you are riding. A great old movie ” Ridin’ Down the Canyon” Don’t miss it!

          • I like your thought on this, but why two trips from his car to the hiding spot?
            If FF was riding a horse I would think he could have loaded the chest and gold on the horse and would have not needed to take two trips.

          • Makes me wonder why he said the one who finds it, will have walked to.
            Why wouldn’t he take a horse, 4-wheeler, bike etc…
            Are there trail restrictions or maybe you have to walk to it because of the terrain?

    • Forrest has said that the blogs should be for entertainment; and that the poem, TTOTC, a good map/and or GE are good research materials for finding the treasure. Beyond that, it is reader beware. (IMO)

    • I agree, WyGirl, and like your analogy to the ball of string. FF’s string theory. Still, as some others have echoed, aviation sectional charts might be the place to start and you will find things on them that are not available on GE.

  27. Known as “The Architect of the Southwest”….Mary Jane Colter’s legend looms large. There is much to learn about this remarkable lady and her beautiful history in New Mexico. The La Fonda Inn was designed by her; and has often been selected as the venue for Forrest Fenn’s book signing events.

    Interesting to note that tiles and fireplaces are a hallmark of Mary Jane Colter

    Hope you’ll take a look!

    http://www.collectorsguide.com/fa/fa147.shtml

    SL

    • Thank you for the link, SL. I like it. It appears Ms. Colter was a woman with gusto. I had entered one of the entrances to this place to freshen up, but didn’t get a chance to look around. It was a bit crowded when I was there. French pastries? Now I’m really disappointed. 🙂

  28. Who’s up for some new rabbit holes that lead to more rabbit holes? Here’s several that haven’t been previously discussed.

    When considering text mining TTOTC and analyzing for possible geographic feature names (assuming Fenn is truthful about sprinkling subtle hints in the chapters of TTOTC):
    – Saltpeter, in the context used by Fenn, is a rare word and without synonyms (other than its chemical name, potassium nitrate). It is a very intentional use of the word when it is used to conjure up the same reaction as Fenn’s attribution. I also remember the stories about the use of this substance in the same context Fenn describes, but these were just stories. There is no evidence of saltpeter effecting one’s libido, unlike benperidol or DMPA. If you have sensitive teeth, it’s probably in your toothpaste. It is used primarily in fertilizers and gunpowder, but also in preservatives… and always under its “potassium nitrate” name because of the emotion the word “saltpeter” stirs. There are several ways to make it, a couple of them quite gross. Enjoy those store-bought veggies.
    – NM has 5 feature names containing the word “Saltpeter”, many in the search region. No other state in the search region uses this word in feature names.

    Thrill of the Chase:
    – Related to saltpeter, Fenn is discussing “Stout-Hearted Men” from Texas A&M. The NM features containing this rare word appear near a Boy Scout camp, part of which is a place named “Chase Ranch”.
    – The perimeter map of Chase Ranch looks a little like the mermaid on Fenn’s bell where imagination is more important than knowlege.

    Eddard:
    – Fenn includes wavy-font lyrics from the song “Stout Hearted Men”, from a musical operetta titled “The New Moon”. In a 1940’s movie these lyrics were sung and led by a popular actor named “Nelson Eddy”. Eddy was also a voice actor on radio for the “Chase and Sanborn Hour” during Fenn’s formative years listening to radio. Fenn likes the word “dumb” (8x in TTOTC), and Charlie McCarthy might have been a form of that.
    – There is a whole county in NM named “Eddy”.
    – Within the search area in NM, there is a rafting take-out place name called Big Eddy on the Rio Chama. From Chavez Canyon (“chaves” is Portuguese for “keys”) to Big Eddy is 66,000 links, or 8.25 miles.

    • “In fluid dynamics, an EDDY is the swirling of a fluid and the reverse current created when the fluid flows past an obstacle. The moving fluid creates A SPACE DEVOID OF DOWNSTREAM-FLOWING FLUID on the downstream side of the object.”

      (Not sayin’ it’s significant, just accepting EC’s invitation to pile on the rabbit holes . . . uh, if you can pile rabbit holes . . . )

      K

      • @J A Kraven – Are you suggesting a connection to water halting? Trying to understand your allusion.

        • Yessir. I’ve got myself stuck in them more than once myself (in eddies AND rabbit holes both).

          But it was your rabbit I was chasing this time.

          Hopalong K

          • @J A Kraven – cool. If you like warm water halts rabbit holes, have a look bathtubs. The poem that Fenn butchers at the beginning is also a cover song by Ernest Tubbs. If you like Spanish and NM, there is a Canada de Bano, and little did I know that Cuba is another word for tub. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar… and a timely word for the wold being split on a certain dictator’s passing. Fenn referred to his father using the word “dictatorship”.

            All from my new AI science textbook “The Joys of Text Mining”. Just kidding.

  29. I think f’s WW have a particular word hidden in the phrase to focus on. This week, I think it is “lure.”

    *Don’t ever let desire for the treasure lure you into a dangerous situation. f

    Maybe fishing lure? Fly fishing, fishing hole

    • @Heidini – for me (translate that to HOD’s preferred “in my opinion”), “lure” is something that “enchants”, like NM’s nickname “land of enchantment”. This is also how I interpret the chapter title “Gypsy Magic” since there is no magic mentioned anywhere, and Gypsy seems to be related to his “charlatan” allusions (“you’re a fraud” in TTOTC). Another word for that might be “con” which is also a prevalent Spanish word.

      To your reference, there are place names in NM where “wool” is used (like Fenn’s “wooly worm” and “wooly mammoth”).

      See more in my new book “Funn con AI”. Just kidding.

      • IMO, gypsy magic is a place in the book that you use your imagination. I don’t think it is as literal as a named place. Tall grass with the wagons in a circle with the girls dancing in a circle.

  30. I was reading the books again and I wish I could express myself in written word the way f can. Truly such a pleasure to read : )
    Just thought I would pop in for a moment to express that sentiment.

    • Right WY Girl!?! There is a texture that is felt by the mind when reading and a cadence that draws you effortlessly to the next word, line, paragraph, and chapter. The thirst is not quenched now that I am at the end. The signature of a work of art.

      • Yes twingem, more than the signature is a work of art. It’s all a work of art including the puzzle he created. He so effortlessly draws the reader in and how subtly the clues must be hidden.
        Or maybe they are right in plain sight and that’s the magic of the whole thing.
        I guess we won’t know until someone finds the prize.

        • You are very observant WY Girl. I’m in Colorado. If you find yourself down this way, we should have coffee or lunch to talk chase fun. It’s going to be a long winter!

  31. http://mysteriouswritings.com/forrests-surprise-words-walking-too-far/

    If you are walking a long way you are walking too far (paraphrased). “Too far to walk”. I think these statements mean you won’t walk the entire way. Also, you may be tired out at the end, not because it’s a long way but because it’s heavy to carry and may require a certain amount of hutzpah to get to the place that Poe and Fenn allude to.

    Weekly words referring to “Lure” is nearly a dozen fishing and boating terms in the poem and clues.

  32. I learn so much everyday that I really work on this! They say ( whoever they are) that you should learn something new everyday, but I think I make up for 20 or 30 days of not learning new things everyday I focus on working out this puzzle 🙂
    Forrest seemed so melancholy in the story of Father on the Banco, that he had somehow failed even though he was an amazingly successful business man. I believe he has become the great educator that he so admired in his father. So Mr. Fenn if you happen to be perusing the blogs tonight, Bravo! And thank you!
    And as he’s most probably not, I somehow think he’ll know in spirit that there are many of us out here learning many new things 🙂

    • Well said – and YEA for learning something new – every day. or whenever the opportunity arises – JDA

  33. One of the most widely read stories about Forrest and his treasure hunt appeared in Hemisphere’s Magazine back in January of 2013. Margi Goldsmith wrote the story and the magazine appeared in the seat of every United Airlines flight for a month…

    It really made a lot of noise and got tens of thousands of ordinary folks interested in the chase…

    http://old.hemimag.us/2013/01/01/the-thrill-of-the-chase/

      • Thanks for posting these Dal.

        Did you get the pics of Temple?

        I know it takes awhile to get things fixed up for the blog and the pics definitely where not great, just wanted to make sure you got them ok.

    • Dal—

      Thanks for posting that. It really is a great article. You can’t help but get excited reading it. 🙂

    • On Bob Hayworth song TTOTC I had asked him about Forrest input on the song and Bob replied. Some of the words had been changed. Check out comments made –
      https://dalneitzel.com/2015/10/06/poetry-page-iii/
      And I also had written Bob’s message board to see if Bob could find even more lyrics but he had computer issues-
      http://members.boardhost.com/bobhawor/msg/1444400168.html
      Is there a hint in the words changed? I found it interesting.

      Hey Goofy, do you remember back in Dec. 2013 you wrote Bob to and asked if he needed help with his website? But what I liked most was how you discribed yourself to him.
      “So if you want a pickup driving, gun toting, conservative, high tech redneck from Texas that lives in California to help with your site let me know.” Well said…. You can see your whole post if you look up the date Dec.31,2013.
      As always just some food for thought. Bur

      • I forgot all about that Bur; he ask for some cheap help with his board because he was moving or something like that. He didn’t respond so I guess he figured it out. To be honest I’m glad he didn’t. At the time I had some spare time and I hate sitting around so I offered some help; not long after that I got very busy and wouldn’t have been able to help him. I still have to work for a living.

        • Yea Bob was to check about some more lines to the song that Forrest had sent him and post them in the poetry pages but I guess he never found them ….or maybe he called Forrest and was told not to give them out- to much of a hint???? Ok I think he just forgot. Anywho glad you enjoyed the memory. Bur

          • Perhaps he did forget or got busy. I wonder if Mr. Fenn recalls the other lines he sent to Bob. I think with Mr. Fenn’s humor, he might answer “yes,” but not tell us what they were. 🙂

      • Thank you for the links, Bur. The lyrics are very nice and I have forgotten to give credit to Mr. Fenn, too. My sincerest apologies.

        • Your welcome pdenver, there’s another comment with Forrest & Bob in the messages with Forrest telling Bob how he like the song not sure the date. Bur

          • Thank you SO much, Bur. I greatly appreciate it. I just read both and they’re great. I loved what Bob wrote about that weekend. He had very kind hosts. I knew the Santa Fe Trail ran through his yard, yet, I wonder what it looks like. Are there deep ruts, or just a warn path? I would love to see one of Mrs. Fenn’s works of arts with the weaving she has done. I had no idea she had done so. I wonder if she still does. Before reading these links, I had listened to the song several times. After reading Mr. Fenn’s comment about the song, I’m glad I’m not the only one who did. 🙂

          • Thanks Bur, I was kinda paying attention but not really. It’s a weird day. I wonder if anyone else is having a weird day? It’s kinda taking me to long to put two and two together 🙁

          • PD, I often wonder about Mrs. Fenn. We never hear much about her publically. That was interesting to hear about the weaving, I do believe that she is f’s true treasure!

          • WY Girl,

            You need to really read all the comments on Bob’s message Board dealing with the TTOTC. Some of the things said just don’t match up with times and events stated with Bob Forrest, and Irene. Look at when Forrest said : ” I understand that you also wrote the song. You have a way of riding along with the tune that makes me play it again and again.”
            Wait a minute Forrest knew Bob wrote the song he even help in it’s wording. Like I said you need to really read all and figure the why’s and what’s that don’t figure right. Just more food for thought. Bur

          • I’ve seen links where Mrs. Fenn had attended gatherings in regards to the chase, but I don’t know if she attends them now. Yes, Mrs. Fenn would definitely be his true treasure. More precious than anything in this world.

          • Hello Bur. After looking at the link again in regards to what you commented to WY Girl, did you check out the time Mr. Fenn posted that comment? It was 12:30 in the morning. Perhaps he was feeling a little sleepy when he posted this and his thoughts weren’t as clear as usual, but wanted to respond to Mr. Haworth?

          • But, perhaps Mr. Fenn was feeling a little tired when he posted and his thoughts weren’t as clear as usual, yet, he wanted to respond to Mr. Haworth. The time shows 12:30 in the morning for that particular post.

          • Yep, sometimes it takes a bunch of little clues for someone to realize that something “isn’t right”. Of course then hindsight is 20/20 🙁

  34. I think an interesting topic for winter discussion would be motive.
    No I do not mean f’s motives cause we already are delving into those, I mean our motives as searchers.

    What is the REAL reason we are involved in the chase and why do we want to win? I know for most those real reasons are to personal to post publically and for a lot those reasons are many, but it would be fun to see “why” must I search.

    My own personal motives are many and varied and I believe that’s why I’ve stuck with this and kept coming back and then decided to get really involved shortly after Randy went missing. I think to be truly successful in any endeavor one must have more than one reason “why”. I tend to throw myself wholeheartedly into any endeavor and my whole life I’ve wanted to be ” successful” and I’ve always been entrepreneurial. This chase is something that seems to use my strengths in finding a solve (at least I see my evolution of a solve that way). Actually now that I think about it my reasons why have changed and evolved over time as well.
    To me finding the chest wouldn’t be the end of the “thrill” it would be the beginning of a new ” thrill”. I am going to be so sad when this is over though.
    Ok there, I’ve tried to put words to this. Now someone else’s turn : )

    • Wy Girl—

      I think with a lot of people the lure of the “millions” is what attracts you first. But as you begin to delve into the poem more and more, I think understanding it and solving it becomes the foremost thing in your mind. Everyone loves a mystery—and it would be really great to be the one who solves it. 🙂

      • Sparrow,
        You are probably right about most people being drawn to to the chase by the ” millions”. I was actually an exception- I had carved out a fascinating entrepreneurial position for myself. I targeted garage sales, thrift stores, estate sales and the like finding jewelry and other small objects worth money. I’m not just talking gold and silver, some of that old costume stuff is worth decent money, not earth shattering but a nice little income. But the best part wasn’t the money it was the thrill of the chase! Everyday was a new adventure! So when I read about f in Readers Digest I said to myself ” Now that looks like a THRLL right up my alley!” And as they say the rest is history : )

    • I use the chest exactly as f intended: a great excuse to get the family out in the Rockies. I don’t EXPECT to find it–it is simply a terrific lure. Am I dooming my search by not expecting to actually find it? I don’t really think so.

    • WY Girl,
      Great question!. Aside from the thrill of it all, I suspect searching in person or on a laptop, has beneficial effects on the brain. At my age, the brain needs all the exercise it can get. I’ve read that puzzles and games help keep the brain sharp as we age and may inhibit dementia. That said, there’s always that treasure! Then the publicity post treasure find will result in even more opportunities for the person who discovers the treasure. That story will also be deserving of a book

    • Good topic Wy girl,

      I wished this Chase was only about finding hidden clues regarding simple math or coordinates. It would be difficult but logical, testing only our skills and abilities as we plot numbers and equations. Even a blank map with scribbles on it will be at this point an easier task.

      But this Chase is something different, it is a journey into someone’s brain. He is one of a kind, and I’m glad it is him for the obvious reasons.
      Think about who he is for a second and try to imagine holding all his knowledge in your head. By his own confessions, not a good student but just enough to achieve his goals and now can call himself an accomplished writer. Not religious but very spiritual. A successful pilot and equally successful art dealer and business owner. As we know, he has had many ‘near death’ experiences. I don’t have the full count but from the times being shot down as a pilot to the cancer scare, I just can’t even imagine how that will shape someone’s character.

      An adventurous child with a fascination for collecting arrowheads, tools and objects from past civilizations. He had the opportunity, from very young, to be close to those areas where many different peoples over the centuries have come to past and leave a foot print or two. From the Lewis and Clarke expeditions back to the Spanish conquistadors to the Native Americans and all the way back to the Clovis people, the first ones to set foot here over 10,000 years ago.

      Not to mention this same area and the Rockies are of such importance geologically. Plate tectonics being responsible for the break off and eventual drift of the north and south Americas from Pangaea and also the cause for the formation of the Rockies millions of years ago. Talk about ‘As I have gone alone in there’.

      That is my motivation. I want to weave that thread through nature and circumstance. The monetary incentive is real too, of course, which can also be a semi-good excuse for those close to us who don’t understand why we spend so much time on this Chase.

  35. Hi Dal

    Forrest said there are no “notes” to be found or lock boxes to search. The dictionary says “money notes” I wonder what he was saying? Any ideas? He also said he couldn’t find his buried jars if he wanted too? Is this maybe a hint that a map is necessary because he couldn’t find his own buried jars? Also he said occasionally he drops a coin out in hinterland, do you think a coin would fall under “note” definition?

    • Joshua-
      When Forrest made the statement about “notes” in the chest he was referring to discussions that were being tossed around at the time about how Forrest would know if the treasure was still where he hid it. One theory was that perhaps someone would find a “note” inside the chest with directions on how to claim the valuable items from a bank or from Forrest himself. That way Forrest would know when the treasure was found. Forrest’s remark about “no notes” is him telling the searchers that the chest contains the real deal…the treasure…and not a note.

      The buried jars and bells are completely different than the treasure. Forrest buried those deep enough so that a standard metal detector could not find them. He does not want them found until a thousand years from now when the memory of Forrest Fenn has faded from the history books. He claims that he buried them in random places all over the countryside and frankly doesn’t even know where they are exactly. I know at least one person who helped Forrest bury them and he said the same thing. They didn’t take any bearings or mark them in any way. They simply walked out into the desert, mesa, ranchland, woodland, etc. and dug a hole and buried them. No care was taken to record their whereabouts. Think of them as some future archeologist’s prize. I believe Forrest intends for some far off generation to find them and be very curious about how/why they got there…a mystery!!!

      I don’t understand the question about “coin dropping” so I can’t help you there…

      • I still think its a valid theory (although I have not used it yet in a solve).

        The loot is in the chest, the chest is hidden, the clues (notice I said clues and not poem) will lead you confidently to the chest IF you figure everything out.

        Nothing Forrest has said rules out that, for example, when you arrive at one of the clues you discover a carving in a stone, a map, or something that when you use the secrets within the poem it becomes the legend needed to re-interpret the carving/map/whatever. It also does not rule out that on a tiny book he put a map that can only be interpreted by the poem answers, then put it in a bronze box or jar and hid the jar.

        FF never says anything straight forward. The loot is in the chest, the chest is not in a bank, the loot is not anywhere except the chest. ALL TRUE, 100%. Did he ever say he never created a map and hid the map inside something at the spot where the clues take you? Not that I know of. He said the clues will lead you to the treasure which is not in or near any structure, but he did not say that the clues did not point to “something” that leads you to the chest.

        Think about this Dal, that would enable him to have hidden the chest long ago where it can be monitored so that he can remain in control and not have people searching for something that was found in 2011. Perhaps the chest is in New Mexico, 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe and the 9th clue is in Montana, find that clue and it sends you to New Mexico to get the loot? Is that my solve, NO, is it possible? Heck yes it is, and to date I am not aware of anything Forrest said that would straight out make the theory invalid. The way I see it, it gives him many possibilites to assure that while he is alive he can monitor the progress, it also makes it easier to place the clue at the 9th location without having to lug around 42 pounds and get caught. He could shove a small bronze box or jar in his pocket and even board a commercial airplane without drawing any people looking at what he is doing.

        Proxy’s were very common, Jesse James and others used them. Carve a map that nobody can understand except their gang (or the ones who crack the poem), then hide that map. Or, maybe FF use an existing map or carving and his poem changes the destination?

        None of that is ruled out by anything he said IMO. And it sure as heck would explain why it wasn’t found, everyone is giving up on locations where it can’t hold a corpse, or where it isn’t “beautiful and special”. I don’t think he did this, but he could have hid this proxy in a junkyard! If its an existing carving/map he didn’t have to hide it at all, its already there and perhaps people see it every day, but they never thought to apply the poem to IT instead of a real map.

        Everyone of course is free to think what they want, but I do not want to force myself into avoiding places that are very well public. There are petroglyps and maps all over the place, it would be brilliant if he used one of them. He sat there eating his sandwich with grape soda while he was writing a poem that modified that item to lead to his “secret beautiful place” that might be 500 miles away in the middle of nowhere, almost 99% safe from being stumbled upon by anyone who did not get all 9 clues!

        True? Who knows… Only Fenn does, and to date he never denied it, he used clever “Fenn speak” to avoid a straight answer. He only needs a straight answer 85% of the time, never tell ALL of the truth as his dad said.

        Could this also explain why the little girl from India, or the boy in Texas cannot get past 2 clues? Maybe, only Fenn knows, but it IS possible 🙂

        • Like Fenn said somehting similar to “we are going to laugh when we find out” or others have said “why didn’t I think of that”.

          Maybe we are too busy walking down canyons, along streams, and up mountains while we dismiss what is right in our face (Fenn, did you really do that)?

          What if the chest is in a beautiful place in the middle of nowhere, but the clues are in a place populated like Grand Central Station? We are shuffling through the woods having fun fishing the streams and rivers FF fished (which is what he wanted) and he knows we are completely missing and have no chance to find the chest turning over rocks, tree stumps, and running the raging rapids.

          He did this for the families, right? Well wouldn’t it make sense that a family was in a place such as a national park that is crowded instead of wandering 10 miles into a forrest? Who is going to stare at a blaze that is a petroglyph, or a map to Old Faithful, and try to apply the remaining clues to IT instead of a RL location it leads to? Probably nobody, and meanwhile the clue locations will last hundreds of years because it is not feasible to remove a petroglyph, or Old Faithful is going to move 100 miles and change its name. Meanwhile the chest sits peacefully, 500 miles away in the middle of nowhere until the 9th clue takes someone to it. Sounds like something that can last hundreds of years to me!

          Now, and I won’t get into it here, but what if that magical place is held in a land trust deed hidden from the public, and should he be alive, he is notified by the agent that the property changed owners. It sat there long enough in some states to translate from “private” to “private – vacant lot” which in some states (like Wyoming) you are legally allowed to enter, in fact if you stay there for 10 years and the owner does not remove you, you become the owner automatically. Plausible? Heck yes! One can even say that Fenn Speak aside, he never said anything to indicate it is not possible, in fact he said he will not tell what type of property it is because its too big of a hint. Well think about this, if it was on Indian or Government land, giving up that info does not really narrow the area down much, neither does saying “public” property. But a vacant lot means it was once private, and it would be a huge hint.

          All my opinion of course, but I want to keep my mind open, and I will never put myself in any more danger than I have on my own property getting shot in a drive by.

          Be safe, we don’t need another Randy tragedy. Not only would FF not want searchers out in the dangerous time of year, I doubt he wants us in the middle of nowhere, I honestly do! It is a shame people don’t follow his advice, just be safe and enjoy your vacation in the forest.

        • WymustIgo;

          You say, ” Did he ever say he never created a map and hid the map inside something at the spot where the clues take you? ”

          Forrest has said the following, ♦ “I said on the Today show that the treasure is not associated with any structure. Some people say I have a desire to mislead. That is not true. There are no notes to be found or safety deposit boxes to be searched. The clues can lead you to the treasure, and it will be there waiting when you arrive.” To me, this says that if you follow the clues precisely, they will lead you to the TREASURE, not to a map or jar with further instructions. Seems pretty direct to me – But what do I know? Probably NADA – JDA

          • Not to me it doesn’t, nice try though 😉

            You keep repeating the same incorrect info, it isn’t going to become correct. But thanks for backing me up with the fact that the clues will lead to the chest, you just forgot to add that he does not say where the clues point to.

            If you are going to try and back it up with copy and paste of the same Fenn speak based on your interpretation (which of course is not any more valid than mine), you’re gonna need to come up with some real well thought out facts. I’ll be waiting for that day 🙂

          • Remember JDA:

            To prove me wrong, show me exactly where Forrest Fenn stated:

            1) that the clues do not give you directions
            2) that the clues do not lead to places on the ground
            3) there are no maps involved
            4) none of the clues is an object other than the chest

            Remember, please read this slow, I am talking about the places that the clues in the poem lead you to, I am NOT talking about the treasure. Show me where he states that none of those places the clues lead to are NOT maps, NOT carvings, NOT a granite slab or a canyon wall with a petroglyph, or whatever, it don’t matter. Show me exactly where Forrest Fenn says that no maps (he said NOTES, not maps) are used and that none of the clues lead to a map or anything that might take you to the chest?

            I’ll wait, but you cannot do it because he never said such a thing. I don’t mind a healthy debate, but man copy and pasting Fenn speak isn’t going to cut it. He NEVER says anything that answers the questions, he always gives some vague meaningless reply.

            Sorry, but a map carved into a petroglyph or hidden inside a bronze box or jar is NOT the same thing as a note in a safe deposit box.

            Now go back and ask Fenn if any of the clues are near a structure, a map, a carving/petroglyph, etc. Tell me if he answers that one. The only thing he is talking about is the treasure! The treasure is there, the clues lead to the treasure, you do not need a trip to the bank to get the gold.

            Why is this so hard to understand? LOL. I’m not asking for you to agree with me, but don’t paste some Fenn speak that was taken out of context and does not answer my questions.

            But what do I know?

          • WymustIgo;

            You said,” Show me where he states that none of those places the clues lead to are NOT maps, NOT carvings, NOT a granite slab or a canyon wall with a petroglyph, or whatever, it don’t matter. Show me exactly where Forrest Fenn says that no maps (he said NOTES, not maps) are used and that none of the clues lead to a map or anything that might take you to the chest?”

            True, Forrest has NOT said any of the things that you quoted. He has also NOT siad that the treasure Chest, is floating in a BIG bowl of chicken soup.

            Why WOULD Forrest say that the places that the clues lead you to are maps, carvings, etc. Wouldn’t that be giving it away?

            Sorry, I perceive your arguments to be very weak. Just because Forrest has not tried to prove a negative does not make it a positive.

            Good luck with your search. I wish you the very best. JDA

          • Please keep in mind JDA, I do not claim to know any more than the average searcher. I do not claim that my indeas are facts, I am just trying to throw ideas out there that I have considered while working on my own solves. It might help someone, or maybe not, isn’t that what this place is for?

            If someone wanted to just post Fenn quotes to void any theory, post the one that says to the best of Forrest Fenns knowledge, nobody has gotten any clues except the first two. So does that mean everyone who thinks they are on to something is wrong?

            I love your story about the afterlife, I did not just reply the following:

            “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, BIBLE VERSES, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f”

            It would be foolish because even though I think you mentioned some bible quotes, clearly you were just throwing out a suggestion of what the poem may be about.

            So please understand, I am not even posting solutions, only what-ifs. Trust me, before posting them I am well aware of what Fenn has quoted.

            Before I post something like that, I already made sure it does not brake any of his quotes. FF is very careful how he words things and careful observation sometimes shows that he never answered the question, or he contradicts something else he said in the past.

            What I take as facts is that the chest is out there, with the loot inside it, and its at his special place where he wanted to die with it. But that does not mean the clues themselves do not require us to work with or observe things we come across while working with each clue.

            He states over and over that the clues will lead you with confidence to the chest if followed in order. What he does not detail is how the clues will work and what is required to interpret them when they are found both in the poem and on the ground or whatever is required.

            What he means by notes is that we already have the clues in the poem, we just need to find them and figure out what they mean. That is unlike a scavenger hunt where you are only given the starting clue, you then grab a piece of paper for the next clue, that is not what I am suggesting.

            Fenn is an archeaologist, he wants us to go through the experience that someone does when they find an artifact. He wants us to learn the steps that are taken to discover things, and a damn good way to do that is by forcing us to observe what we see along the way.

            That is all I am really suggesting here.

          • Sorry Jake, but your rebuttles have been weak or non existent. You simply post Fenn quotes and do not back anything up with any kind of logic at all.

            Your commen on chicken soup is akin to you thinking a petroglyph is a “note” that leads to a “safe deposit box”.

            I wish you luck on your camping vacations, be safe man 😉

          • Wy: “Sorry Jake, but your rebuttles have been weak or non existent. You simply post Fenn quotes and do not back anything up with any kind of logic at all.”

            Very sorry for you missed the point again Wy,

            Go back & read the books again. Read the poem many more times. Listen & watch all the video & understand what he has said & then come back to me & post some of Fenns quotes & then disagree with what you posted.

            Your comments are all over the place & some in the wrong place.

          • No offense JD, but if anyone takes your bland, copy and pasted advice seriously, then you would be responsible for assisting in the deprivation of someone else’s imagination.

            I feel like you try really hard to convince people, that your vision is the best possible outcome. Then you retract everything by saying, “But what do it know?”.

            I don’t get your lack of imagination, and you nearly force it on everything. Then you save yourself by using the “Opinion bug”. It is so perfect in its own way, that sometimes I think you are a “bot” on this site, saying the same thing over and over, but using different words each time to repeat yourself. I dont know if you are able to Step outside of the box for a minute, and at least acknowledge that, what is being done, is not working. Or if you are just one of those people that, believes everything should be “by the book” in any scenario to life. Its amusing to read though.. Because I am completely the opposite.

            But what do I know?

            Good luck

  36. Man, I could watch Mr Fenn’s video tales all day, what a memory that man has. I was watching/ listening to this one over & over, while doing some research…f keeps pestering this Colonel McGhee to let him come fly the F100. The ‘promotion’ aspect sounded suspicious, but sure enough most of it checks out
    ………….
    MAJOR GENERAL JAMES C. MCGEHEE found at
    http://www.af.mil/AboutUs/Biographies/Display/tabid/225/Article/106250/major-general-james-c-mcgehee.aspx

    “In 1956 he assumed command of Nellis Air Force Base, Nev. As commander of Nellis, he had the responsibility for training Air Force pilots in the use of Tactical Air Command supersonic aircraft and weapon systems.”

    Can you imagine Fenn at 26/27 yrs old?

  37. 9clues – Dal and Forrest made some excellent videos. I too enjoy watching all of them. The experiences that f had are out of this world. I love that he is sharing those stories with us now while he can.

  38. Speaking of Indiana Jones…

    Has anyone else watched the first two episodes of “Chronicles of Young Indiana Jones” on youtube and thought “… now wait a minute”? Or maybe it’s just me.

  39. Awsome topic WY Girl,

    The hunt. My original, immediate , and ever present motive which fuels my motivation was and is the hunt. I first learned of TTOTC from Expedition Unknown. I was hooked. I didn’t even wait for the episode to end to start looking. I couldn’t. I didn’t have the capacity to not get going. Imagine that I said. A real live modern day treasure hunt. Well that’s just, it’s um, I have no wor…, I can’t expla…, Well THAT’S FANTASTIC!! “Honey, where’s the laptop? ” I asked. ” Awww, way over there? Throw it to me. I haven’t got time to walk all the way across the room.” That level of excitement remains with me to this very moment. I too, ( i enter my disclaimer here , I’m not saying the following as fact, only saying i beleive, not that im right or your wrong, only imho) like so many others, beleive that I have “the” spot! A place I beleive in. And as thoroughly as I can possibly beleive in myself for my conclusions, I still keep searching. I sometimes wonder if I’ll be able to shut it off. I hope not!
    What can I say? Dog will hunt.

    Anyways. Just a thought.

    • Was that December 23rd when you viewed the TV show?

      That is the day I became hooked. Happy one year anniversary coming up soon. JDA

  40. No JDA. It was last November sometime. So you missed my anniversary. No card or nothing. I see how it is. Seriously though, while I’ve got you on the phone here, let me just say that I did enjoy your piece on ” Crossing Over”. I’ve found it isn’t always easy to just ” put it out there” so to speak. Opens the door to all kinds of kinds. I can respect that and appreciate you saying” come on in”. So without any further delay and in my best midevil English accent I say unto you , “Fare thee well kind sir, fare thee well”.

    • Just out of curiosity what does the mt stand for in your name? I’m sure it must be Montana as you are a searcher. But it sure looks like something else at a glance 🙂

      • Agree with your assessment of JDs post. He really put it out there. Surprised he didn’t get all sorts of crazy on that one. But I also appreciate him putting it out there. It gave food for thought 🙂

          • Thanks JDA.

            It’s how I entered into “The Chase”. I just shook it like an Etch-A-Sketch and said ” Let’s see what we can see.” For all you kids out there, if you look up etchasketch you’ll learn nothing. It’s like we were banging rocks.

    • Thanks mthead;

      “Putting it out there” is what the blog is all about to me. Sharing ideas.

      WY Girl asked about your screen name, and referenced Montana. Please take no offense – I was just playing with your screen name and came up with the following (All in fun)

      Empty Head
      M. T. Head
      Montana Head
      Mountain Head and Meth Head.

      I hope that it is Empty Head – That one is cute. JDA

  41. Weird, I just made a long reply and it didn’t error out, but the reply is not here 🙁

    Sorry Dal, I love you man, but the blog software sucks IMO 🙂 It loses posts and is very hard to track threaded discussions. I really wish you used some forum software.

      • A forum is a million times easier to understand.

        A forum is like a file cabinet with notes/events stored that can be quickly found, the blog is like a junk draw in my kitchen filled with items randomly thrown around 😀 It takes days to find something in my junk draw ! LOL

    • my sincere sympathies for your whole ‘slow copper internet’ conundrum, WMIG ..no, honestly 🙁

      have you ever heard of ‘Audrey’ recently btw?
      ( ..I think she may like you, in a very ‘special’ way)

      but don’t mind me WMIG ..just saying ’tis all.. nothing to see here.

      ( ..I think it’s safe to take a quick bath now, WY Girl
      ..but sshh!)
      🙂

      • Seems like there are people that get angry at other people for posting what they feel like. It’s an open forum blog. It supposed to fun and interesting- I thought… I see people saying to others (and myself) that they shouldn’t requote mr. Fenn or copy and paste. Just seems silly to argue over stuff like that. And god forbid if I don’t put “IMO”… imo, lol

        • Heidini-
          There are rules on this blog. If not followed precisely then the world as we know it will crumble into the abyss of the universe and be lost forever in a gravitational loop. All life on planet Earth will immediately perish and time will become meaningless.
          In other words you stand the chance of annoying Goofy…and that will not earn you any points. So before you go assuming this here blog is some kind of democratic experiment you had best become one with the laws of HOD land.

          The “Rules” can be found under the big photo at the top of the page on the tab marked “Rules’.

          • @Dal – it seems to take too much bullying and smack talk to annoy Goofy for one of your certain members. If I have to be banned in addition to your current worst offender so that another example can be enforced, then I volunteer to also be banned.

            The distraction is ridiculous, and it has been allowed to continue for far too long.

          • E.C. just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t mean it’s bullying. There are a few here that get very upset if someone disagrees with them. I applaud those that put their ideas and solutions out there to be put through the shredder. But what looks like a stroke of genius to the poster looks like a silly dreamed up rabbit hole to another. Then the cupcakes get all bent out of shape when someone puts up a Fenn quote that seems to blow their idea out of the water. And some folks get all offended when their grand idea gets completely ignored. Seems no matter what we do someone gets upset.

            I’ve been on the receiving end of criticism about my ideas from you, and most of the rocket scientist here actually, who vehemently appose anything simple. And what Seeker does to my ideas would make Stephen King shudder; but that’s OK I’m good with that. Without a robust debate we have nothing but a cheer leading squad and a complete waste of time.

            If I see any offensive post I nuke them, and I know what bullying looks like. Try driving a H1 Hummer through San Francisco with your American flag tee shirt on. It’s so hostile there, it makes me want to run and hide in my safe space.

          • E.C.

            I do not have a “dog in this fight”, but it seems to me that you are doing a bit of “grand-standing”. If you honestly wanted to make an offer to Dal re the current situation between you and Jake, I would have thought that you would have sent Dal a private email. Probably would have been more effective – Just my opinion. JDA

          • @JDA – Thanks for the feedback. It’s a new age and a new medium. Cyber bullying has several prevention courses of action. The first step is to make a public plea to the owner of this medium. If Jake wants to follow me around and harass me in a way that garners like-minded people to also chime in with their views (starts to resemble a word and concept called “mobbing”), then my request for action to those controlling this medium should also be public. The difference here with most is that my email and name has been voluntarily published. There are people here who know my real name. I am not anonymous even if my handle suggests it. I also work with a ton of attorneys as my linkedin profile will show, so now it’s a little more than just immature behavior.

            Here again, if the disposition is to ban us both, I’m quite fine with that. But the outcome needs to be an action of some sort or we proceed to the next step.

          • lol, Dal. (in a whisper), found the rules, where can I find the “chest”? (aloud) There’s no marked tab…owww, my head…

        • Dal

          thanks for the ‘heads-up’ (re: the planet suddenly crumbling into nothingness)

          am heading directly to the safety of my (ingeniously) crafted nuclear bunker, as we speak!

          ..oh wait, I forgot to install a toilet ..and suddenly need to wee!

          (darn ‘hindsight’ for being so (supposedly) cutely funny!?)
          🙁

  42. Ohhh!!!! that Fenn, I thought I could just relax, listen & enjoy that four part interview (amateur quality) ff taped with the AF Association. I hadn’t got around to listening to it before, but sure enough ff has to ‘taunt’ us with a General Brown…..[4:30 minute mark last segment]

    Well the old Scratchley reference seems to check out as well,
    “He then assumed command of the Seventh Air Force and also became deputy commander for air operations, U.S. Military Assistance Command Vietnam.”
    Obviously he’s buried at Arlington, info on him- Wikipedia, his more official bio is here:
    http://www.af.mil/AboutUs/Biographies/Display/tabid/225/Article/107590/general-george-scratchley-brown.aspx

    …now when Forrest starts talking about having owned a Shrimping boat, jogging across the country, I’m out.

  43. A soldier decided to desert his treasure trove in the desert then go home to have dessert.
    English is so confusing yet entertaining. 🙂

  44. I once thought many months ago that ” As ” meant an acronym for: Agua Spring & ” I ” meant Ojo for the Spanish translation of “Eye” pointing to Ojo Caliente in NM or YNP.

    I banned this way of thinking because the poem didn’t flow with the changes I have made. Yes, this could be pointing to either of these areas but the awkwardness of the flow of the poem made me rethink this approach.

    • To me, As I = Since I = Since I have gone alone in these, so should you be alone as you go into the place that he secreted his treasures bold. It is a clue, and a warning.

      If you are not alone, at the very least you should not be observed. JDA

      • So you’re using another definition of as “since”?
        Seems comparable without flow loss.

        Why would it be a warning?
        I don’t see your thinking there.

        • Since he was alone, so too should we…or at least not observed. By using “AS” as Since there is an implied warning – At least to me. JDA

          • JDA- makes a lot of sense. He uses the word ‘secret’ also. I think stealth might be important. IMO

          • I was thinking a warning is followed by danger & not that you have to go somewhere alone or not be seen or observed.

            If you are “brave” to me seems like a warning not “since” or as I have gone alone.

            If it is a warning, where is the danger?
            Say if someone sees you going there, how could they know why you are going in there.

            Sorry, just don’t see it & please to cry.

          • You are searching in YNP Area, and/or in a National Forest – Is that not correct? ANYTHING found in a National Park or a National Forest CAN be claimed by the U.S. Government, if you are found with it.

            Not being observed while wading in or around Taylor Falls would seem prudent to me.

            To me, Forrest is just telling us, up front, at the beginning of the poem…Once you figure out where “In There” is – be careful…don’t give it away to the government. Just my view – JDA

          • Not in YNP, that is about 12 miles from there.
            I think it’s Forrest Service Land & really doesn’t matter legalities wise considering the only place you could find it not having any issues is on FF property.

            I think you’re close but being prudent doesn’t jive with warning.
            Be careful may be a warning when finding it but no matter where it is you will have to be careful so I will agree with you.

            BTW, what we are chatting about has nothing to do with locating it but how to handle it when & if anyone finds it.

            So much for filler.

            Brave: ready to face and endure DANGER or pain; showing courage.
            BTW, doesn’t say “in the cold” says “worth the cold”.
            I think this phrase is pretty straight forward & you will be cold at some point.

            Well, the winters are not cold here in Florida & have been looking forward to temps in the 60’s 70’s & 80’s instead of the 90’s with humidity being pea soup or maybe a big bowl of chicken (baak) soup.

            Now I’m getting hungry….

          • Well Jake,
            I just finished making a big pot of turkey vegetable soup. Your welcome to come for dinner. I’m just north, not far but to far to walk!
            Actually, all are welcome!

          • Thanks for the invite eaglesabound,
            Quite a ways off from where I am to you but I’m glad you know what to do with the leftovers & I would do the same.
            Nothing should go to waste in the Keystone State.
            🙂

          • JDA, don’t have a ton of time right now to get into and it’s probably a discussion for the legal pondering page but just quickly- you said if they catch you with it? I’ve done a bit of research on this regarding YNP and the law seams pretty straightforward regarding “abandoned property” and there would be certain things that a searcher would have to do but it would seem they would probably end up with the treasure in the long run if it were found there.
            Of course I “don’t know everything” but as long as the searcher does what they are supposed to do legally it seems like it would work out alright.
            Can you clarify what you meant?

          • WY Girl;

            It is my understand that if anything iof value is found in a NP or NF, that the finder is required to turn it over to the appropriate authorities, where it will then be placed in escrow. Thew government will then advertise it, and hope that the “Rightful owner” comes forward and can prove that it is his (Forrest). It would then be up to Forrest to “gift” it to the finder. If no one comes forward (If Forrest could not come forward) the Government CAN say that it is the property of the “Public”, and a LONG trial would ensue, which the finder probably could not afford, and the government would then do with it as they saw fit.

            Better to “Not be observed and “Just take the chest and go in peace”

            IF I find it, I WILL NOT be observed, and I WILL take it and go in peace, and quickly consult appropriate lawyers – after talking with Forrest since, “He has thought of everything.” JDA

          • JDA, I asked a lawyer about that and he said that it is only true if the property is lost. You turn it in, if the owner don’t claim it you can then try to acquire it.

            However, since Forrest basically abandoned it willfully and created a chase for someone to go keep it, the law is different. The very second it becomes abandoned on government property, it becomes owned by the government/citizens. You do not have a chance to get it.

            To make matters worse, if it is discovered to be on government property such as a national park, the Fenn estate would probably be sued for any rescues or damages done during the chase.

            I am sure FF considered all that, he is not going to risk his estate on a bet that the finder will not turn it in. For that reason, I believe that although the clues may be on government property, the chest is not.

            Remember, Fenn abandoned the property, he did not lose it.

            If this was some silly geocache it would be another story, but when a rich guy abandons $800,000 (at the time) and people die or get hurt, the last thing FF would want is to risk his estate.

            If one believes it is in a national forest or park, they are not thinking FF is too intelligent. But who am I am say anything other than my opinion, people can do as they wish, have great vacations you won’t need space for any riches on the way home 😀

        • I do not see “Brave” as being a warning word. There are several meanings to “Brave”, one of which is Indian Brave – might this apply? Maybe.

          I once thought that “In the cold” was also a warning, I no longer think so. There are other meanings to “cold”. Do you remember playing battleship, and asking am I warm or cold? Cold could mean not close to the treasure – maybe something like off to one side or another.

          “No place for the meek – is this a warning? Probably not, but it could be.

          Just some random thoughts to warm over during the “Cold” winter -If you are “Brave” enough (Or not too meek) to consider the options JDA

          • I do not think brave means he expects searchers to do something illegal like steal from a national forest or park. In addition, he would be opening up a huge can of worms if he used any government property as a place to abandon a cache and create a treasure hunt for it.

            Just imagine the ramifications if the chest was found in Yellowstone! They probably spent a ton of money on rescues, guess who will be at risk to pay damages?

            This is all my opinion of course, but I believe that although the clues can be anywhere, the chest is on land that he made sure we can legally acquire it. FF is a smart man, and I am sure he not only consulted with lawyers, but he is well aware of property laws in those four states. He must have made sure he covered at least his own butt! This is not some petty geocache hidden, its a potential for a ton of money in book/movie deals, selling the loot at more than face value due to its origin, etc. This is very serious.

          • Thanks for clarifying that JDA, like I said above don’t have much time tonight but if you are on tomorrow morning maybe we can discuss it more then.

          • JD- remember be low was put in and the only place b and e together low in the poem is the word brave. Take them out and you get are rav, arrive. If you arrive in the wood. Still have to be brave as well. The chest will be waiting when you arrive!

          • Hey JD,
            I’ve always looked at cold as a time frame. Like in the summer “f” is saying to leave to your spot early in the a.m. before sun up when the day starts warming up. As you said, just something to gnaw on during winter.
            Timothy…IMHO

          • Timothy and Jon Edo;

            Interesting points that may be worth gnawing over – probably better than rattlesnake jerky 🙂 JDA

    • All,

      This is simple: As, since and because are all synonymous.

      So whether you use as, since or because, the meaning is the same. He CAN keep his secret because he went ALONE in there.

      LitterateOne

      • Very true…

        But you are assuming that the speaker is Forrest. Suppose it is someone else? Suppose it is an inatimate object such as something in the chest, or the chest itself?

        My keys are alone in my pocket, they can keep a secret where too. Heck my pocket can hint of riches new and old.

        So IMO, it all depends who or what “I” is in the first stanza, and what is “IT” that “I” is telling us to begin? Remember, Forrest said we need to use our imagination, no? There are other options we can use instead of always assuming “I” is Forrest and “IT” is the quest.

        • WyMustIGo,

          Is your I you, or something or someone else altogether. There are possessives contained within the poem, are we to consider that an inanimate object can possess something, I think not. The I within the poem IMO is simply Forrest speaking in the first-person narrative.

          LitterateOne

          • In my old solve “I” is someone who has passed on, in another it is an inanimate object.

            Similar to how Fenn says everything has a story, including his arrowheads. His enjoyment was the chase, the discovery, holding something that had a past, his excitement came from understanding the items past.

            Its almost like entering a haunted house… you imagine “who lived here?”, “what did they do?”, etc. People say things like “If these walls could talk…”.

            I believe really that a bronze jar or box is “I” and “IT”. We are given 9 clues to get that box or jar.

            In that bronze jar or box are riches new and old, and also the secret “where” along with “title to the gold” and where to find that gold once you execute title.

            The bronze box or jar is the speaker and it is telling you how to get it, which is riches new. Once you get it, the sealed contents will tell you how to go about getting to the big reward (the real chest) so that you can “walk with confidence exactly, precisely to it”.

            So um yeah, I think the last clue is within the item you discover at an earlier clue.

    • I love that train. What’s next? Barbie, Ken, and Forrest dolls? Maybe the next generation will be treasure hunters!

  45. if you replace the “W” in “what”, “where” and “when” with a “T”, you get the answers to those questions….

    • Are you messing with his poem? What rationale would there be for replacing some letter with another letter? Seems a bit arbitrary to me.

  46. Above, Jake Faulker wrote: “the only place you could find it (the chest) not having any issues is on FF property.
    I believe Jake is correct. For FF to hide the chest on his own property would mean that from his point of view, everything would be legal.

    My point here is that it is conceivable that FF bought a small piece of property before hiding the chest. I seem to recall someone here stating that he hid the chest in approx 2002, before he sold his airplane. A theory would then be that sometime in the late 90s he buys the property from some entity, then prior to selling his plane he hides the chest on property that he has recently purchased from someone else, probably the government. The land and the chest are now his. He then waits 8 or 9 years to satisfy himself that he really wants to go through with this public treasure hunt.

    As to location of the chest, don’t know that this theory changes anything. It’s just that maybe we shouldn’t automatically rule out some small piece of private land on detailed maps we consult.

    Ken (in Texas)

    • Good thought, Ken. If I find the chest, and FF hasn’t thought of everything, then it will most likely have been found in my backyard LOL.

    • That was me who said he hid it in 2002 on property he bought through a land trust (and is thus hidden from the public). This would be how he knows it is still there, the land has not changed owners yet, nobody executed the pre-signed title..err deed.

      All my opinion of course.

      • WyMustIGo,

        Imagine becoming an owner to a property, (piece of heaven), like that! Wish that I could…..

        SL

        • Well, remember Fenn said something similar to this (I am too lazy to look it up).

          He put two items in the chest before he closed it, he never mentioned what they are. Supposedly one of them will make us laugh, and the other one is a surprise.

          IMO the fact that we might get the land is the surprise.

          What I am thinking is that back in 1988 or 1989 when he thought he was going to die, his real plan was to have his grave there surrounded by maybe a “Garden of Hope”.

          Or maybe he was going to retire there but instead decided to stay where he is and simply give away the property since he recovered and had a change in plans.

          If I wanted to do what FF did, what better place to hide the chest than my own lot? If it isn’t developed the taxes would be very low, a few hundred grand could easily pay for maybe 100 years. There is no way to be sure that public or government property will change, in fact it changes frequently unless it is at a famous landmark that will not change for centuries. Private land can be lost, but it has the best change of not changing unless FF planned to become one with the earth on top of a boardwalk in Yellowstone 😀 (or in a tree in West Yellowstone).

          This is the other main reason why I think he hid two objects. The first one can be almost anywhere, it does not need to be secluded enough to hold a corpse. The second one can be 500 miles away, secluded, monitored, impossible to stumble upon, etc.

          If you found a sealed bronze jar or something, you open it and find a signed deed and an cryptic map that leads somewhere on that property (you don’t know where unless you have the last 5 clues of the poem for example). You go to the courthouse, execute the deed, then at your leisure you go onto your property and dig up the loot without casting any doubt whatsoever who is the legal owner.

          You then section off a small part, construct a bonze sculpture of Fenn with a piece of the chest contents within it, and lay it to rest at the sculpture/memorial. Fenn gets a legacy, the chase is proven to not be a hoax, and people who were hurt or died on any property not where the chest is has almost zero chance of winning any lawsuit.

          Now, assume I am wrong, chest is found in a major national park or forest. The finder comes forward, the press arrives, the papers go out with headlines “Joe Schmoe solved the chase and found potential millions! Current legal details are being worked out with the authorities”. Then what else happens? Same thing any other time someone finds millions in a public place! Lawsuits, fines for using a national park as a loot cache, etc etc etc.

          There is simply no way FF did not consider all that. Even if he didn’t give a darn about the searchers (and I doubt he don’t care), rest assured that he considered the welfare of his family and estate.

          Like I said this is no little Geocache, this is a major search covered by major networks, a lot of money is being made by many people. It will attract the bad people, rest assured.

          • Forrest “There’s no place that you can put a treasure that under the right circumstances, there are no complications.”

            Wy,
            Well, I guess even on his own property there would be complications.

            Not sure why you would speculate on the brass bell with a title or map to where the real treasure is on his property or why the 9 clues in the poem will not lead you directly to the chest as he has stated many times over.

          • Jake, your response did not invalidate a single thing I said. Nada 🙂

            It is impossible for you to claim any theory is invalid unless the chest is found.

            To make matters worse, you are not understanding what Forrest says, and you just gloss over the fact that even Forrest says he does NOT have to tell the truth more than 85% of the time as a non fiction writer. That statement alone pretty much destroys anything he ever said. But that aside, nothing you have posted proves my theory wrong. Search for decades, you will never find anything that nullifies what i said.

          • Wy: You said: “It is impossible for you to claim any theory is invalid unless the chest is found.”

            I think this statement you made is also invalid. Your statement suggest the chest could be south of Santa Fe or outside the areas where he made it clear it is not.

            You said: “That statement alone pretty much destroys anything he ever said.”
            Then why are you here wasting our & your time if you can’t believe anything he said?

            I have been reading your comments & some don’t make any sense & it seems you disregard everything Forrest has stated because of the 85% statement.
            That statement alone would make the statement itself only 85% correct if you believe that statement applies to everything he said, typed & wrote.
            So I guess the 85% of this statement is only 85% right LOL.

            You said:
            “* What if there was more than one treasure (treasures)?”
            Maybe the (treasures) are inside the one & only chest he hid not south of SF but north of SF.
            South of Santa Fe???

            Get real & I wouldn’t focus on the billions of things he did not rule out & focus more on the things he did rule out.

            BTW, he wishes he had another treasure to hide in the Appalachians & maybe you think this statement is BS as well so maybe you should be looking there.

        • Our last Wild Geese trek in October, we spent a morning recon’ing for the right dirt road through a checkerboard of public and private land down to our destination canyon – this in an area dotted with endorheic and intermittent little ponds and reservoirs.

          We finally found one that would go (and that a sedan could arguably negotiate), and headed out across the plateau to the head of the canyon we wanted. Went through six chained (but not locked) gates – the road was a right-of-way, so as long as we closed the gates behind us as we went, we were good to go, though the land on either side of the road was “no hunting or trespassing.” Which was fine, since our canyon itself was land open to camping for rafting trips on the river into which it debouched.

          Come up to the 7th gate, right near the end of the road, and I got out to open it. Locked. We were blocked from the canyon by a swath of fenced private land closed to travel by the owner.

          All the way back out, we wondered out loud if FF had ever sold and delivered art or artifacts to the owner of the ranch house on the other side of that last locked gate . . .

          We could of course still get to that canyon from the other end, by raft, and maybe – probably – we will someday . . .

          K

          • Ow that isn’t cool…

            When I was in Wyoming this year I read the local newspaper and one rancher was fined for locking a gate that was supposed to be unlocked to allow through traffic into the Indian Reservation. LOL

            I don’t know how it works, but I assume even though the property is private, the city or state sets aside an easment to allow traffic. You can tell you are on such a road because there are signs near the open gate that say something like:

            Private Property
            Do NOT leave the road.

            Meaning you can drive the road, but do not exit the car and walk around. You could also see one of these:

            No Tresspassing
            Tresspassers will be proscecuted
            Violators will be shot and killed

            LOL (I seen a sign exactly like that in Wyoming)

            I don’t mess around in a state where you do not need a license to carry a concealed weapon! haha

    • Oh and Ken, don’t forget this:

      I don’t remember the exact words, but feel free to read TTOTC or look up the quotes:

      “I had plenty of time to change my mind and go back and get it before going forward”
      * Well if he hid it in 2009/2010 he didnt have much time before the book+poem came out.

      “Eric Sloane sometimes changed dates to make himself appear to be born later (young)”

      * Maybe Fenn added 7-8 years to when he really hid it, nobody knows, he never gave an exact date. Even if he said 2009/2010 or when he was 79 or 80, he could be fibbing because:
      1. As a non fiction writer he says he only needs to tell the truth 85% of the time. Perhaps he hid it 1 to 15% years earlier.
      2. His father told him to always tell the truth, but not ALL of the truth. Suppose he hid one bronze box or Jar in 2009/2010 (with the title and map to the chest, map can only be decoded with the poem clue solutions), and hid the real chest in 2001/2002 when he owned a plane and license? He even tells you in the Moby Dickens video how he would push open the Hangar doors (and he makes it clear he was ALONE, needed NO HELP), started the plane, got clearance and flew 600-700 miles to a small town like Lander WY.

      My theory is he hid 2 objects. One in 2001/2002 with all the loot. He had a duplicate box (the one he could have showed to his friends and then melted down), he then used a bronze jar that holds the directions and title to the gold..err deed) hid that in 2009/2010. The poem leads to the Jar, when you have the Jar you now have in your hand the title to access his land that is someplace FAR away from where the Jar was. Heck, the real chest could be in NM Rockies north of Santa Fe, and the Jar and Poem lead to Wyoming!

      • You are so creative! Nice thinking.

        I think you are my biggest competition, or ally.

        Have a great weekend.

        • Thanks but keep in mind there is controvery surrounding these thoughts.

          Fenn has stated that there are no notes to be found, and no safe deposit boxes. I am well aware that he said that, however he also said:

          1. We need the poem, TTOTC book, and a good map.

          He never said a specific map, he never said what the “surprise item” is, he never said that one of the clues does not lead to some kind “right map” we need. He also never explained what “title” means, why not just say “I give you the gold” or “I give you my trove”?

          All we know is we have a poem, and in that poem there are 9 clues. In the book there are hints that help with the clues. He does not describe exactly what form those clues will be in (words in the poem? petroglyphs? an item inside a sealed bronze jar?). None of those things are “notes”, and none of them are a safe deposit box. The chest is out there with the gold within it just as FF said it is, we do not have to go to a bank to get it, but we DO need to go where the clues send us to get the chest. See what I mean, Forrest never said anything to contradict that as far as I am aware. The old “cut and paste” there are no notes or safe deposit box statement does not invalidate anything I have said.

          Its just an opinion, people can do wtih it as they wish. If they want to discuss it, I will be happy to answer any real solid facts that prove without a doubt it is impossible. Anything is possible, that is why some are searching south of Santa Fe.

          • WyIMustGo~ “Its just an opinion…if they want to discuss it…”
            You stated: “1. We need the poem, TTOTC book, and a good map.”
            Yep I’m going to be nip picky here, because I think it is important, for the exact wording to be used. Notice the “and/or”… While I get that your comment was simply implying what fenn stated. Fenn apparently made an effort to his wording.
            Fenn ~ “… Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f” 
            You stated: He does not describe exactly what form those clues will be in (words in the poem? petroglyphs? an item inside a sealed bronze jar?).
            Fenn ~ “Q: Does the book give me any more information than I would get from the poem?
            A: “There are some subtle hints in the text of the book that will help you with the clues.  The poem will take you to the chest but the book by itself won’t.” f
            You said; “The chest is out there with the gold within it just as FF said it is, we do not have to go to a bank to get it, but we DO need to go where the clues send us to get the chest.”
            While we have been told of, no notes – safety deposit boxes to be found, etc. And, I agree with a searcher having to “go” physically to retrieve the chest. However, do we know we have to “…GO where the CLUES send us…?” { I’ll admit this is a tricky piece to understand, and i’m not sure myself. }
            Fenn~ “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” f
            Do we need to “follow” the all clues physically, or should be be able to ‘understand the poem’ “beforehand” to get us directly to chest?
            One Example; “Thanks for the question Ben.
            If you are sure about the location of home of Brown why are you concerned about where warm waters halt? But to answer your question, sure you could and a few searchers might throw in some gas money for a percentage of the take. Good luck.f”
            So, do we really need to “Follow” the all the clue physically, or ‘Follow as instructed to understand?’ where the chest lays in wait. I’ll admit that I don’t have the answer to my own question, but it seems to me, if we think we ‘must’ find 9 physical clue, that we must physically be at only, we might automatically force a clue to be something it may not be.
            “follow” and “lead” do not have to be a physical trek only. Searcher have told fenn where they have been [regarding the first two clues] and walked by the remaining clues and the chest. Apparently, just being there is not enough.
            So Yes, I would like it a great deal to have that conversation, if you wish.

          • Seeker, he did say and/or, but that does not rule out the possiblity of there being an actual map, engraving, petroglyph, etc.

            I never said the poem and the clues alone won’t get you to the chest. Has he defined exactly what a clue is? Has he explicitly said that you do not need to observe or learn anything at the clue locations? Far as I am aware, no, he did not.

            You actually helped me become even more confident in my thoughts because you even admited that the way he answers questions leaves them open for interpretation. He never gives a straight answer.

            I want to discuss it, but I don’t want to rehash his quotes, I want someone to post a quote and then explain exactly how it refutes my theory.

            I’ve repeated myself over and over, I have countered every single quote even before they were mentioned, and not a single one invalidates anything.

            The clues in the poem are not known
            If the clues lead to locations that have clues or hints is not known

            If I sent you on a quest and gave you a note with one clue:
            Go into 1001 Auto Parts on Route 9 in Jackson NJ and buy me the cheapest 30 weight engine oil for my car.

            I can claim the clue will lead you directly to the end result. But does it? It will require you to enter the store, find the engine oil, then examine each brand to find the cheapest one. If there are no price tags, labels, or employees to talk to, you are screwed.

            Fenn isn’t sendind us for Oil, but since when did he claim we do not need to observe or gain any knowledge of what each clue in the poem referes to?

            Forrest created a monser and the blogs in a way compounded it because things are taken out of context, and when in context Fenn’s answer really does not tell us anything.

            Lets take it even further, do you look for a blaze outside of the words in the poem? If so, why? Why do you need to observe anything if all you need is GE/Map and the poem?

            When Fenn digs up the first artifact at a new site, would he simply throw it in his pack and forget about it, or will he examine it for clues to its history that may guide him to even more artifacts nearby?

            We need to remember this is a treasure hunt created by a man who loves to discover things. Do we seriously think that we don’t have to not only find the clues, but solve them too?

            It sounds like nit picking, and its because we have to. Forrest wants us to even go so far as to use imagination! Why? If all we need to do is read off 9 clues on our couch, jump in the truck and drive straight to the treasure, why has that not occured in over 6 years?

            Why did Fenn say people were within 200 feet and did not realize the significance of where they were. Might that be because they were not looking very close at their surroundings.

            I see people post theories that are based on Astronomy, Medicine Wheels, Bibles, Spanish translations, etc. They must all be invalid because those extend beyond the clues in the poem?

            It really makes no sense to me.

            Now regarding the proxy object, feel free to tell me how you think he hid the chest and will mange to avoid the legal and other repercussions. Do you believe he just threw the chest out in a TeePee on a Reservation, then drove home with no way of knowing that it was found 1 week later. Six years go by, tons of rescues, one death. Are we really to believe that he would continue to promote and run the chase without a way to be sure it isn’t over? If you want to discuss it, please feel free to tell me what you think he did instead of just posting quotes and saying the quotes invalidate it.

            I’ve offered up explanations, and since this is a blog I would love to hear how you think he handled hiding the chest, what land types and why, the logistics of running a treasure hunt for a million bucks. How do you all think he did it?

          • You said; “he did say and/or, but that does not rule out the possiblity of there being an actual map, engraving, petroglyph, etc.”
            We must be talking about two different things. This sounds like ‘on site finds’ [if I read you correctly] where I was talking about information useful as “tools” to solve the poem and not on site information. Which “and/or” imply, either .. or.. one or the other.

            But you bring up a good point about observing…
            Fenn ~ “Craig, there is no substitute for thinking and planning and observing and looking at maps, unless it’s the desire to keep it simple.f
            Which bring me to the question… we’re told to “think and plan” How is that done on site, if you don’t understand beforehand?
            Before we can observe anything, what is it we need to plan and think about in regard to the poem? Here’s my thought… observation is part of the solution, yet we need to plan to know what it is we are to observe. That is where the thinking [ahead of time or prior to a search comes in] we still need more than just location to understand why and what we need to see… this might fall into the “certainty beforehand” knowledge.
            Is this why all those many searchers were on location and didn’t know what they were observing, even though the told fenn their process?
            If this was a simple follow point A to point B and know where to start… why did those searchers not understand the significance of where they were?

            You said: “We need to remember this is a treasure hunt created by a man who loves to discover things. Do we seriously think that we don’t have to not only find the clues, but solve them too?”
            I personally don’t think this as a “treasure hunt” and more as an exploration. So I agree to a point we should not only find the clues, but instead of “solving” I would say we need to use them. [ that’s a long explanation in itself ].
            As to the rest of your comment about how, where he hid it. I think the place is in factor, not just because fenn has feeling about or holds it in high regards, But it might be a place that over time can only be observed for a short time or even once or twice a year. Hence the need for planning for, and observing while on site [ which bring me back to thinking about the poem and having certainty beforehand ]. Sure ~if you know precisely where the chest is you can probably retrieve it in any weather… but how would you know if you didn’t understand something important before hand?
            “I’m not flippant about this. It’s not something somebody is going to be able to do on spring break or a Sunday afternoon picnic. I’m looking a hundred years down the road, maybe a thousand years down the road. People don’t understand that.”
            That comment has a lot of impact on how I approach the poem.

            How he actually “hid” the dang thing is still up in the air [ buried, covered, in a crevice etc. etc.] but without knowing the exact spot… I think people could walk right by and not know. Thus the reason the clues need to be followed “precisely” …not stomped out so much as, understood how to use them. But in my mind [ an opinion only ] fenn made a comment in an interview about Indian Land… again,imo, the chest is not in one of those areas. LoL, that doesn’t help me much, but I’ll respect it as it is.

      • I like your thinking on this WymustIGo, I’ve had the same thought for awhile. This would explain how he knows the treasure has not been found.
        Good luck to you,
        JW

  47. By mutual agreement, a handshake and legal documentation?
    A parcel; some place in the…..’middle.’

    What a plan!

    SL

  48. Wy,

    I too have considered that possibility. Without saying I agree or disagree, I’d like to throw a log on that fire and fan the flame a bit.
    Forrest did say he took two trips from his car and it was done in one afternoon. That does partly fit your theory. Especially if you break it down a little. Take the “from his car” part. Almost like someone saying ” I need a break……from the kids”. Or that now maybe his car is disappointed because he took those trips away from it. I know. That last one is over the top. But the point is the way it’s worded, I think the common interpretation, and rightly so, is that he packed up the car, drove to his spot, carried the heavy box out, came back to the car, and did it again. By using ” it was done in one afternoon”, and offering up a time constaint, that makes sense. But what if “done in” is meant more colloquial like it was resigned to it’s fate. Or “one afternoon” is meant more nonchalant. Like if you were asked ” Are you ever going to fix that?” Your responses may be “Yeah, one day.” If you think about it like that it puts some attention on IT. Since I’m rambling, consider the meaning of trips. A poker player will tell you one thing and a travel agent will tell you another. If he did indeed toke a “vacation from his car” the possibilities explode.

    Anyways. Just a thought.

    mthead

    • No problem at all!

      Yep, a few ways.

      He could have taken those 2 trips in 2002 in one afternoon. Heck he could leave in the morning, fly his plane to say Wyoming in less than 4 hours, rent a car by noon, make the 2 trips, then be home in Santa Fe before dark.

      Or he could have taken 2 trips to hide the bronze box/jar in 2009/2010. Maybe he had to drive to a gate, stop, get out, open the gate, go back to the car… There are so many ways he can twist that statement it almost isn’t funny.

      Or he only told 85% of the truth as he stated he only requires as a non fiction writer.

      I will say this too… Food for thought…

      He once said the reason why he won’t say exactly what year he hid it is because people would do things like “check rental car records, milage, etc”. Think about that for a moment…

      Before he released the book and poem nobody would think anything of it if he took a drive in his car, so why would he even need to rent one or worry about records unless he was hiding it FAR from New Mexico.

      Also back in 2001/2010 I am sure Peggy would think he went to a business meeting up in Cody or something, he flew around all the time I bet. Nothing would be suspicious because it would be 7-8 years before he did the chase! By that time he had some gold stuffed in a copy of the original chest in his safe, shows it to friends, puts it back in the safe and later melts it. Then in 2009/10 he goes out with a small bronze box or jar in his suitcase or car, nobody would know, he isn’t carrying 42 pounts, maybe 2 pounds. He could board a commercial airline with a bronze jar easy, no suspicion drawn.

      Also one more thing….

      The poem says “As I have gone alone in there and with my treasures bold”. Why is treasures plural? Doesn’t “have” mean someone or some thing went alone more than once with treasure?

      Imagine I have a chest of gold and I say:

      Mthead, I am going alone in there with my treasures… Doesn’t it sound a bit odd? Why not “As I have gone alone in there and with my treasure bold”?

      Could it be that when read the first time I and IT are = to the bronze jar/box and he is taking Riches New to its spot at the last clue. The second pass of the poem describes how to interpret the contained map and I and IT is the second treasure, riches old, the big bucks? “There” does not need to be the same place each time, OR “there” is reffering to a place in the poem that changes when each clue is given.

      I think its possible, and its very easy to talk your way out of it.

      Some food for thought again…

      “I hid the chest north of Santa Fe, NM.” – ff
      A. Fenn hides the chest within a cardboard box to cover it during transport. Or he puts it in a backpack. He does this North of Santa Fe, NM.
      B. He then hops in his car with the hidden chest, drives 5 miles SOUTH of Santa Fe (still within range of the map) and he BURIES IT.

      Is FF lying when he said he “hid it north of Santa Fe”?
      NOPE

      Many of his weekly words and comments are all easily contradicted or explained away. He expects us to learn him and listen very closely.

      • WyMustGo; you’re starting to get on my nerve…..I only have one and it doesn’t like being irritated.

        Fenn’s statement about the chest being north of Santa Fe is; If you want to apply those important figures into the thrill of the chase I will give you an additional clue. The Treasure chest full of gold and precious jewels is more than 66,000 links north of Santa Fe.

        Are you calling Fenn a liar?

      • Fundamental Guidelines ~ FF;
        The treasure is hidden more than 8.25 miles north of the northern limits of Santa Fe, New Mexico.

      • WMIG

        I strongly suspect that your long-winded reply to Goofy’s honest question, is well worth listening to.

        am quietly anticipating your ‘well worth listening to’ response, with baited breath…

        but take ya time, no hurry mate.. we all immortal here, at ‘h.o.d in wonder-land’ ..which I’m certain will be well worth the listen, once listened to.
        🙂

  49. Speaking of “Fenn Speak” and thinking, I seen a video just now by someone regarding the Chase maps.

    He asks a great quesiton:

    Suppose I gave you the following and asked you to complete it by putting something after the comma on the second line:

    1,3,5
    2,4,

    Most people would say 6. But what if I told you it is wrong, and the answer is:

    1,3,5
    2,4,R

    You would look at me as if I was a few cards short of a full deck. Until I showed you a picture of an automobile stick shift that had that layout for 5 forward gears and Reverse. If I did not show the picture, some would say I am a liar.

    We kind of need to think like that to solve the poem and use his hints.

    Look at the poem and try to think of “What if”.

    * What if there was more than one treasure (treasures)?
    * Who is the speaker, is it a living person, spirit, or inanimate object?
    * Who is I, what is IT?
    * Are we to begin doing something at IT, or are we supposed to find something that begins at IT?
    * Is the home of Brown a real place (considering there are a million definitions), or does the home of Brown only exist right where you are looking, within the poem itself?
    * How do we become wise? Does the poem tell us how to become wise? It should, FF said all the clues are in the poem, right?
    * Are we overlooking places because it can’t fit a corpse, or nobody would want to die next to a popular landmark amoungst the tourists? Might not be wise to leave without a marvel gaze, maybe it is a hint you are looking at!

    Anyway, this is the kind of thinking that is required. The biggest question we should all have is how come, according to Fenn, nobody has gotten more than the first 2 clues right in over six years? Sure, there are a massive amount of people who never email Fenn, but really? Perhaps we are not thinking, we are using the wrong maps, not properly interpreting the poem, ruling out places based on assuming we are only looking for a place that can hold a chest and space for a body? Or all of the above?

    There are some extremely intelligent searchers, and people like Dal who have spent many hours on other treasure hunts too. These are not stupid people, so we are all missing something 🙂

  50. What to make of the following: Per the site Cheat Sheet, Forrest is quoted as stating, “Searchers have been within 200 feet”. Huffpost interview 02/04/15, AND “ “The person who finds the treasure will have studied the poem over and over, and thought, and analyzed and moved with confidence. Nothing about it will be accidental”.

    How can we reconcile these claims that searchers have been within 200 feet and yet the searcher who finds the treasure will not have done so accidentally?

    • Let’s say that a searcher had correctly identified the blaze, and then let’s say that the treasure is within 200′ of the blaze.

      “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze…” is at line 13 of a 24 line poem. There are 11 lines left in the poem The person who finds the treasure will have to study over and over, and think about, and analyze and move with confidence through these remaining 11 lines, before finding the treasure. Only then will Nothing about it will be accidental”. (sic) That is how I reconcile the two. The blaze, at least to me, is NOT the end of the quest, there is yet much to be discerned. JDA

      • I agree.

        Plus Fenn is not aware of anyone who has more than 2 clues. We can’t even assume the man (who might have been with a parter) had any clues, they may have been on vacation walking down an old trail after having worked on their solve miles away from where they told Fenn they were at.

        In 10 months it will be 7 years, right? 7 years and not a single person can prove they have more than 2 clues nailed. LOL

        • WyMustIGo: how could anyone prove they have even 1 clue right without having the chest? Fenn does not confirm solutions, especially partial ones. So only Fenn knows when a searcher has a clue or two correct, and he probably errs on the side of pessimism when a searcher isn’t crystal clear WHY they were at a particular place. As such, there are probably some who have solved 4 or more clues, but Forrest doesn’t have enough details behind their clue-solving logic to ~know~ they’ve solved them.

          I expect that many dozens of searchers have solved the first 2 clues by now. If Forrest provides another annual progress report in early 2017, I would not be surprised if there is a significant change over the last several years of apparent stagnation.

      • I could see that JDA. I can also see using your scenario a searcher could find the blaze, leave to go back to hotel to work on poem and trip on the chest 200ft back on the way to the car.

        The other thing is how does Forrest know someone was within 200ft? Someone would have had to name drop a place, landmark or coordinates, right? Any place that has a name, generally has human traffic and thus if that place was within 200ft, would that human traffic not eventually accidentally stumble on the treasure?

        Another thought, if we use the word searcher, that might preclude the concept of an accident.

        • Again, let’s assume that the blaze is a known waterfall or some other landmark. Just because people come to see the waterfall, or landmark does not mean that they will go “off trail” to search in the surrounding areas. Only a searcher who had figured out the clues would venture off of the trail, and then it would not be accidental if the searcher KNEW where to look.

          Just the ramblings of an Old Geezer – JDA

        • They send Forrest emails with pictures and they sometimes also tell him exactly where they went.

          Many do that, that is the only way he would know and he has said that a few times in interviews.

          That is also how he assumes nobody has more than 2 correct clues, people email him their clues, his email address is even in the book.

          There *could* be someone with all 9 clues who has not said anything to Forrest, but that person has no way to prove they have more than 2 clues unless they show the chest.

          People have been saying they solved it for over 6 years, yet nobody has anything except a bill for a vacation 😀 I been out 4 times only myself, I was confident, but obviously wrong. That is why I will never say on any blog that I know where the chest is, it is a good way to get laughed at when you fail to find it.

          You don’t see it much here because Dal and Goofy don’t put up with that stuff when people come here acting as if they have it solved, and everyone is too stupid to figure it out like they did.

          Unfortunately it also means some good hints are deleted, but if they didn’t do it the place would turn into garbage. So I applaud the mods here honestly.

    • Retieri, to me the only way to reconcile those two statements is Fenn didn’t say where one would move with confidence from. This leads me to believe we have to solve the poem on location. Once we solve the poem we will move with confidence.

      Having pre-determined solutions blinded people to what was right in front of them and they went past the treasure.

      • You know that is a great point that never occurred to me Goofy.

        I took it at face value to mean that you will leave your house and walk with confidence from the start.

        It very well could be that the hard part is figuring out where to start and what to start, maybe the first 3-5 clues. Once you get to that spot, it might become obvious and lead you right through the other clues. I say 3-5 because if he knows people had 2 clues and walked past the other 7, we know 2 are not enough clues for confidence.

        Good point

      • The more I think about it, I feel like his quote isnt implying its impossible for someone to find it accidentally but instead it’s that he believes what will really happen is that someone figures out the clues and moves with confidence to find it.

      • Solving the poem on location? That’s like saying, start in NM and winding up in Montana where the treasure is hidden. I don’t buy that. IMHO, once you leave your front door, you go directly to the chest. Those four states alone are the size of Saudi Arabia, there is no way in heaven you can do it on location. Poem, GE, and a good map, that’s straight from the horse’s mouth.

        • Hi Gordon, How come you don’t think it’s plausible that we might have to solve (at least in part) the clues on location?

          • Hey reiteri, Forrest said to go directly to the chest with confidence, not doubt. And, he gave us all the tools to do just that. The poem gives us the directions on how to get there right up to the last 10″ by 10″ from our couch. Google Earth lets you see your site from outer space..how cool is that? As for a good map? Well, you’ll have to make that decision about what a good map is, because not all maps are created equally. But on top of everything that I have just said, you have to crack the poem, there is information in there that you have to research, some of it pops out, and some of it doesn’t. It’s like a puzzle that you have to put together, it’s not easy until you fit that last piece of it in. The poem is by no ways a stroll through the park, there is much research involved in figuring it out. But once you do, it’s clear sailing right to the chest. Of course, all IMHO. Also, thinking that you are going to just go to the RM with bits of information about the poem and walk out of the woods with the chest is just sheer madness. I wouldn’t spend a dime doing something as foolish as that…that doesn’t compute in my world. Of course, everything that I just said is all IMHO.

      • Goofy,
        This statement by Forrest has me leaning toward the method ‘Gordon Lightfoot’ (December 3, 2016 at 1:14 am) described below. Still, there is no perspecitve given for “beforehand” as far as I can tell, so it doesn’t appear to completely contradict your “on location” hypothesis.

        “…study the clues in the book and thread a tract through the wiles of nature and circumstance to the treasure.  If you can find it, you can have it.  I warned the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” (Flap on map in Too Far to Walk)
        ( http://mysteriouswritings.com/the-thrill-of-the-chase-treasure-comments/ )

        Joe.

  51. Tying this in with today’s MW…and yes I know stocks are a tangent, but they also can draw a nice parallel if you can see the following from the right angle.

    PLAN THE TRADE. . . TRADE THE PLAN

    Beat the Street philosophy suggests that
    the inclination to second guess and revise our planning emanates from a desire to avoid risk. Too often as traders, we think oo that we recognise an event that led to a previous loss unfolding again, and decide that this time, we have the opportunity to emerge victorious. If we are lucky, then the market will slap us on the wrist immediately for straying from a carefully devised plan in favour of acting on a hunch. If we are unlucky, we are rewarded for the behaviour, and it will become increasingly difficult to stay the course. Eventually, this series of events leads to ruin, and my best advice to traders of a levels of experience is to learn to precisely plan, and then flawlessly execute. This is the only path that can lead to an objective understanding of what works and what does not. That objectivity in turn, eads to a trading psychology that is characterised by courage and conviction. These characteristics foster success.

  52. Dal I guess this is as odd and end as I get–If you want to see the Blaze in a rare form type in this(eta carinae) He really did go out there

  53. JDA wrote: “let’s assume that the blaze is a known waterfall or some other landmark. Just because people come to see the waterfall, or landmark does not mean that they will go “off trail” to search in the surrounding areas. Only a searcher who had figured out the clues would venture off of the trail,”
    ——————————————————————————————
    Oh how I disagree with that conclusion.

    Off-trail from a known “landmark” you frequently would get maintenance people, government officials, visitors who delight in going off-trails when nobody is looking, approved scientists,corporate reps seeking places to drill or build, blah blah blah. Not in a thousand years could you convince me that the chest is near some well-known “landmark”. It would be found accidentally, if not in a couple of weeks certainly in a couple of centuries.

    In my opinion the chest is far far away from well-known, public places and tourist traps. And Yellowstone? (heeheeheehee) I wrote off YNP within a week of first learning about this treasure hunt, because of FF’s statement that the chest would not be found by accident … quite aside from the legal entanglements that would result from hiding something in a national park.

    Ken (in Texas)

    • Hi Ken (in Texas)

      It is quite possible that you are correct, and it is also quite possible that I am correct. Let’s hope that one of us can validate our assertion some time in the future. Good luck to you, and TRY to STAY SAFE JDA

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