Crossing Over…

by JDA


“What If” the poem is not about finding a chest full of gold, but rather a poem about crossing over to the other side?

In 1988, Forrest was diagnosed with cancer.  We know very little about his battle with cancer, other than the fact that he is a survivor. “What If” he died, but was one of the fortunate few who came back, before fully crossing over to the other side?  “What If” Forrest wrote the poem to tell us how to prepare for that journey that we will all take at one point or another?

I firmly believe that there is a hidden bronze chest of gold out there, and that the poem holds the secret to finding that chest, but I also believe that the poem could be about that “crossing over”.

“As I have gone alone in there…”

As I went into that very special place that we must each go into alone, for no one can accompany us on this journey. Others may be at our side, and even hold our hand, but this is one journey that we each must take ALONE.

“And with my treasures bold,…”

As I go into this very special place, I take with me all of the memories of my time spent here on earth.  My life flashes before me in an instant.  Time seems to stand still as I remember every moment of my life – The good, the bad, and the ugly.

“I can keep my secret where,…”

Having crossed over that threshold, but was able to return, I know where this special portal lies, but I can keep it a secret, until I once again must use that portal.

“And hint of riches new and old.”

Having crossed over, I was able to look back upon my life and all of its riches – My friends and my family.  Ones that were closest to me, and meant the most to me.  But, I can also see the wonders that exist “On the other side.”

“Begin it where warm waters halt…”

Where must this journey begin?  It is said that the body is composed of 99% water.  The blood that courses through our bodies is truly our “Life’s blood.”  We are warm blooded animals. Once our heart stops beating, our “Life’s blood” ceases to flow through our body, and we soon begin to cool.

So, our journey begins at that place where the heart ceases to beat, where our “warm water” ceases to flow through our body.  It may be in a hospital, it may be in a wrecked automobile, or it may be in a Grove of Pines somewhere within the Rocky Mountains somewhere 8.5 miles north of Santa Fe.  The spot may be of our choosing, or “Fate” may select the spot for us.

And take it in the canyon down…”

“Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death…”  Psalms 23:4 describes the trip down the canyon.

“Not far,  but too far to walk.”

The journey from this side, to the next, will happen in the blink of an eye, and yet will encompass possibly millions of miles.

“Put in below the home of Brown.”

In order to take this journey, unafraid, one must have faith that there is another reality after death. Monks, whether Buddhist or Christian frequently wore Brown cassocks in days of yore. This Brown cassock, is a symbol of religious faith – regardless the denomination or sect.  So, on your journey to the other side, put your faith in whatever religion or belief that you have relied on during your journey on this earth.

“From there it’s no place for the meek…”

“Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth” On your journey, you can see the earth quickly fading from view. This will no longer be your home.  Other, even grander places await you.

“The end is ever drawing nigh;…”

The end of your final journey is fast approaching.

“There’ll be no paddle up your creek…”

On this journey, there will be no need for paddles, nor any other means of conveyance or locomotion.  Just think it, and you will be there.

“Just heavy loads and water high.”

You are the product of every moment that you have lived.  Some religious beliefs call it Karma.  By whatever name, we each are responsible for every act and thought that we have had while living on this earth.  We do not shed these acts when we cross over to the next realm.  For some, this will be a heavy load.

In the Christian bible there is the following: The Second Day: Firmament Then God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so. God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.…  Truly, Water High.

“If you’ve been wise and found the blaze…”

If you’ve been wise… If you have gained wisdom about living in this life, you have also gained wisdom about facing death… For those who have had “Near death experiences”, many describe it as walking into a brilliant light.  This must have been what Forrest experienced – the celestial blaze.

“Look quickly down, your quest to cease…”

As you enter the brilliant white light that is the blaze, look quickly down, back at the life that you are now leaving…Your quest to know what is on “The other side” is about to be fulfilled.

“But tarry scant with marvel gaze…”

Don’t stare in wonder at the world you are leaving, nor at the new world you are about to enter.

“Just take the chest and go in peace…”

Don’t question what is about to happen, just take the gift that you are being offered, and move peacefully into your new realm.

“So why is it that I must go

And leave my trove for all to seek?”

Why must I die, and leave my loved ones behind, wondering where I have gone and what awaits me on the other side?

“The answers I already know,…”

Since I have crossed over once before, I already know what to expect, and I am not afraid.

“I’ve done it tired, and now I am weak.”

Having lived a full and wonderful life after having once crossed over, I am now tired and weak, and look forward to my second crossing.

“So hear me all and listen good…”

Please pay attention.  What I have had to say is important to you, and your upcoming journey.

“Your effort will be worth the cold…”

Crossing over is not easy.  Letting go of this life is not easy, but it is something that we each must do, and it is not to be feared.  Soon your body will be cold, but that is OK.  It was only a vessel to carry your life’s vital energy, that is now entering a new realm.

“If you are brave and in the wood…”

If you have faced the crossing over bravely, just as you have faced so many other challenges in this life, the outcome is not to be feared.  As you now lie in your “Pine Box” – you will have already crossed over.

“I give you title to the gold.”

You have crossed over, your reward will be to forever walk in peace on “Streets paved in gold”.  In reality, there are no streets here, for there is no need.  All you have to do is think it, and it shall be a reality.


As I said at the beginning, I fully believe that there is a bronze box filled with gold and precious gems hidden out there somewhere, and that the poem has the secrets to finding it.  I also believe that what I have just described above is also possible.



203 thoughts on “Crossing Over…

    • I enjoyed reading this, JDA. I agree that the poem resembles the passage of life, and a lot of the other things you mentioned.

      I was raised as a Catholic (even went to Catholic school for a while) that slowly became agnostic and no longer read the bible. That said, I am spiritual and do believe there is a supreme being, a god of sorts, and an afterlife in someplace similar to what is described as heaven. He could definately be talking about something that occurred during his bout with cancer and maybe seeing that bright white light.

      Nice writing!

      • Thanks. We all take interesting spiritual journeys don’t we? I was raised in several different christian churches, and have been a Buddhist for the past 50 years. To me, all paths lead to the same destination. We each must decide which path best fits our “Karma”, What is on the other side? Not sure. All I can do is live my life in such a manner so that no matter what lies on the other side (even if it is nothing), I will be at peace there. JDA

        • JDA,
          I just GOT what you are saying here, how could I not understand this the first time I read it. I’m sorry……
          “Why is it that I must go………..

          • I have a hard time using my words sometimes. I’m better at intuitive and hoping folks can “feel” what I mean.

            Yes, I know that’s weird but I like to think JDA knows what I mean.

        • Dear Jake,
          I ‘m envious, sounds like a glorious day, which it is!
          Ark weather is gloomy, damp, and cool.51.
          Jake have you read journal of a trapper? Incredible book!

          • I have read parts here & there & have followed some of the places they went to & have to face that it is a difficult read & noticed that their mile scale is off. It seems like their 10 miles is more like 7 or 8 & 20 miles might be 15.

            I didn’t find anything very useful except for the meaning of words then although this was intriguing:
            I envy no man that knows more than myself and pity them that know less: Sir T. Brown.

            Meaning of words…
            “I arose and looked around me my horse was near by me picking the scanty blades of sunburned grass which grew among the sage.”

            “The two ladies were gazed upon with wonder and astonishment by the rude Savages”

            There’s a few words that seem to help, I guess.

  1. JDA—- Thanks for sharing that. I do believe there are different meanings to the poem, almost like layers. One of them gives directions to the hidden Treasure, but there may be an overshadowing, greater meaning, as you have shared. The poem truly is fascinating to say the least. Thanks again. 🙂

    • All one can do is read the poem over and over, and over again, and let the subconcious go to work on it. JDA

  2. Thats pretty good, and I’ve thought something similiar but I don’t think he believes in an afterlife or that his spiritual being will live on after his death. IMO.

    • Forrest did say he believes there is someone else, a higher power, with their hand in our lives. Whether he believes life goes on after you die I do not know, but I do think he believes in God.

      • He did kinda. On page 147. At the great banquet table of history. He also said ” A few weeks after they told me I was critically ill I wanted to strike out at the tradition that proclaims when a man dies all of his spiritual being halts.” Whatever that means. Idk. IMO

        • Sounds to me like he believes that one’s spiritual being continues after death. That is how I read it. Any one read it differently?

          • To me it means that he wanted to proclaim the error of people saying that “when a man dies all of his spiritual being halts.” That is what it means to me. JDA

          • To me it meant “start something new That could be risky”. But I am in no position to judge anyone or criticize anyone. That was never my intention. (I hope you read this, Sir, and know I am being sincere.) Plus I like your interpretation better, JDA. It is more positive and just feels good. So thank you. I have changed my opinion. Thanks again.

          • Glad you like my interpretation JohnR. I didn’t think you were judging me nor anything I posted.

            Have a GREAT day – JDA

  3. Very earnest, and consoling … but I’m just an animal, atoms will disburse without memory or conscience. Too bad for me. What I leave is already collecting dust in my grandchildren’s psyche. Too bad for me.

    • Does anyone know for sure what is on the other side? Maybe we do just turn into atome, and there is nothing in the next realm, but we have to live this life as if there were – don’t we? JDA

      • YES!… If the chest b real , then it also stands as a metaphor of a ” higher power” , in that only a select few have been in its presence. Yet we r asked to believe in and have faith that it exists. Quoting Brooks and Dunn ” I Believe”…

  4. Thought-provoking reading of the poem, JDA. Thank you for sharing. I don’t suppose we’ll ever know the full story behind the poem, but I suspect it might give rise to a few smiles, alongside any profundities.

    • Let us hope that the treasure chest is found while Forrest is still alive, and then, as Paul Harvey used to say, maybe we will be able to sat “And now you know the rest of the story.” JDA

  5. JDA, I love this post. One of the many unique features of the “canyon down” where I find myself searching again and again is a phenomenon the locals call “The Heartbeat of the Mother”. The trick is to put your ear to the Earth and “listen good” in a very specific area. I’ve often wondered if this or something similar might be the “blaze”. The confirmation that spirit surrounds us. Wouldn’t that be a comforting place to rest in eternity…to the heartbeat of all that is and ever will be.

    • And, for what it’s worth, I once had a near death experience . More than 40 years ago – no bright lights – but I remember every detail as though it were yesterday. That experience shaped the rest of my life, as you are suggesting the same may have happened with FF. I worked as a Hospice Nurse for a number of years, and I have a very different understanding of end of life, death and dying, than most. I think you have touched on something very important and relevant to the chase, JDA.

      • Thanks for posting SandyB. My mother had a near death experience when I was only one year old. It changed her life in many ways, and has also changed mine I guess. I do not know what is “On the other side”, but I do not fear it.

        In some strange way, I agree, I “may have touched on something very important and relevant to the chase”. I guess only time will tell. JDA

        P.S. Glad you made it back. I hope that it has been rewarding. “Go in peace” has a special meaning for you I bet. JDA

      • Great Thoughts, SandyB and JDA.

        Thank you both for sharing.

        And thank you, JDA, for this write-up. You have some very intriguing ideas…worthy of pondering.

        But…I believe…even imagination can’t fully prepare good people for what awaits them on the Other Side.

        Others have shared the last words of Steve Jobs…which are worth listening to…

        “Oh wow. Oh wow. Oh wow.”

    • The first sound that each of us hears is our mother’s heartbeat…Thump kah chunk – Thump kah chunk. What an assuring sound…maybe you have something there, where you can hear for eternity that wonderful sound…JDA

  6. You put a lot o lot of thought into that post JDA. Does that process take you to your spot or are you crossing over to a new search area?

    • My search area has not changed.

      Yes, my subconcious put a lot of thought into what I was able to pen for it.

      When I am at “MY” spot, I can so easily see why Forrest might have chosen it as his last place. Forrest has said, “And when my tackle box is closed at last and the cadis hatch is gone, I will rest through all of time and space, pillowed down and scented in, with a smile that comes with remembering the special things that brought me to that (this) final place…”f (sic) It truly is a “Special Place”…If I am right. If not Forrest’s “special Place”, it certainly has become mine. JDA

  7. I think the book and poem is about life, but, of course, death is a part of life. I always thought these words from Milton’s otherwise unrelated poem is a great one-line way to sum up the Chase:

    “Rocks, caves, lakes, fens, bogs, dens, and shades of death.”

  8. Yes JD, I 2 believe there is spiritual connection in the chase. Very insightful. Stanza 5 brings “the eye of the needle” parable to mind for me. Good job, THANX!

  9. Personally, I think that our bodies have spiritual atoms that never die…they stay intact even after death, they can do everything that that the physical body use to do when there was a physical body attached to it. Think, walk, run, fly, but probably not eat, but who’s to say? Anyone thinking that is too far fetched, then explain our presence here at this moment? There is a God, and yeah, for about 7 years I went through my denial phase, but right before my mother died, God and Mary revealed themselves to me and said to me that it was going to be alright and not to worry about her, and the same with my dad, at the very moment of his death, I felt a STONG push and tug within my body…his spirit had ran into my spirit. It was the coolest thing I have ever experienced. Yes, I am afraid of the unknown, but I have those times to remind me that, YES, there is life after death. As for this thread goes, who knows what Fenn was thinking, each and everyone of will depart our earthly bodies somewhere down the line. And, if my father is any indication of the way it will be, it’s going to be FUN when it finally happens 🙂

  10. Other than the poem describing how to locate the Trove and one of its purposes to encourage people to get out of the house and away from electronics, **** is the poem designed to convey a deeper significance? Is there a subtle message you are sharing with the reader and hope they realize? ****~ Seeker
    No Seeker,
    ****The poem is straight forward with no subterfuge in sight.**** Someone in an email asked me if I didn’t know where the treasure was, and could have the answer to any clue in the poem, which would I choose. I think that question is so funny and it makes me wonder how Jenny’s readers might answer it.f

    Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, ****bible verses,**** Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f” 

    • I didn’t say that Forrest was trying to convey some secret message Seeker. All I was doing was doing what you are always asking others to do – Ask themselves “What IF”

      Well I did, and this was the answer.

      Have a GREAT day Seeker. JDA

      • **** is the poem designed to convey a deeper significance? Is not secret message as you say.
        While asking ourselves about other possibilities… don’t we need to keep in mind, what is not a WhatIF?

        “Bible verses… will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions….”

        • I am not going to get into a semantics duel with you Seeker. My What IF worked for me if it doesn’t work for you – so be it. It doesn’t make my What IF wrong. Good Night Seeker. JDA

          • Seeker…most times I like/ agree with your thoughts, but to mock others by suggesting anything about our existence as supernatural superstition is ridiculous. MY place in this world is not by mere happenstance!

          • B. Heston,
            You may call my comment mocking, I’ll argue there is a point to my wording.
            Fenn ~ “I am not a religious person but I am probably the most spiritual person around.”
            I’ll add; What is the difference between religious and spiritual?
            One deals in beliefs, another deal in experiences.

            If a post like this is going to be written about an interpretation, regardless of what the person who wrote it intention was… I would expect some backup to this, other than simply quoting bible verses. After all, it is an interpretation of fenn’s poem.
            The whole premise of this post starts out with a speculation… fenn died, didn’t cross over because someone brought him back…
            So, if this post is not about searching, as JD said, what is it about?
            No, B Heston, there is no mocking of religion, but I will ask questions and point out quotes when some one states; ” I also believe that what I have just described above is also possible.” [ referring to an interpretation of the poem ].

            I have simply presented fenn’s words in contradiction to what was posted in order to argue my point… this is nothing more that speculation based on “belief” and not a WhatIF.
            Can anyone anywhere, show me where fenn may have implied, he died and was brought back?

            ““What If” Forrest wrote the poem to tell us how to prepare for that journey that we will all take at one point or another?”

            WhatIF a similar questioned was asked and fenn answered in the negative?

          • My word Seeker, no need for the drawn out rebuttal. SMH…the post as I read it was about spiritual what IF rather than religious absolute. And it WAS mocked by using the term “supernatural superstitions”…should we assume u r an atheist or agnostic, afraid and untrusting of something greater then yourself?? Sorry not attempting to thump a bible but by my own very personal experience with trying to decipher the poem, I’ve realized a treasure greater than riches in a bronze box. So accept my suggestion a take JD’s words as useful wisdom rather than opportunity to dispute a simple I and harmless idea.

        • Seeker, I think you missed the point. My interpretation of the poem had absolutely nothing to do with solving the search for the treasure, so quoting things that Forrest may have said about finding the treasure is irrelevant to this discussion don’t you think?

          I didn’t just “Quote bible verses” read a little closer and you might see hints of Buddhism as well as basic spirituality scattered through the interpretation. JDA

          • “My interpretation of the poem had absolutely nothing to do with solving the search for the treasure, so quoting things that Forrest may have said about finding the treasure is irrelevant to this discussion don’t you think?”

            “May have said”??? Irrelevant?

            You placed interpretations of the entire poem… if it’s has ~”nothing to do with solving the search for the treasure,” ~ then what exactly is this discussion about?

          • With the exception of your post, up until that time, all discussion had been about my interpretation of the poem. I prefaced my interpretation of the poem by saying that I firmly believe that there is a hidden treasure out there, and that the poem holds the secret to finding it…but then I also said that I felt that the poem could be interpreted in an entirely different manner. You interjected your thoughts (no not your thoughts, you inserted quotes from Forrest that relate to the search for the treasure). Up to that point NO ONE thought that I was referring to the search.

            Again, good night Mr. Seeker of truth. JDA

          • “What If” he died, but was one of the fortunate few who came back, before fully crossing over to the other side? “What If” Forrest wrote the poem to tell us how to prepare for that journey that we will all take at one point or another?”

            My bad… I thought this was an actual discussion about how to read the poem as it might helpful in solving the clues. I should have realized it was only supernatural superstition post, and as you said Irrelevant to a search.

            Just out of curiosity… what do you know about all this crossing over stuff? Have you every experienced death?

          • Seeker, IF you had taken the time to read some of the other comments you would know that “I” have not experienced death, but that my mother did, and came back. My interpretation is based on her story, as well as some research that I did on line.


  11. “If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration.”
    – Nikola Tesla

    “The day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence.”
    – Nikola Tesla

      • Hi Jake, Oh my gosh. That is a reminiscence about Forrest from my IHeartMedia Radio show. I’m thinking it aired and was podcast half a dozen years ago. I guess nothing ever dies on the Internet. I enjoyed listening to it after all these years. Thanks for posting.

          • Thanks for a link to my old shows. I had almost forgotten some of them. Re: Forrest in 2016. I’ll ask but, somehow, I don’t think so. I visited him in early October and he was full of vinegar and told great stories about the characters he met when he was just starting out in the art world but he was..well, much older (aren’t we all, in fact).

          • You’re welcome Irene & thanks for sharing, you have a very soothing voice.

            I was hoping you didn’t say that & yes most of us here are heading over the hill at different speeds.

            Oh well, it’s been I nice ride at times anyway.

      • @Jake – thank you for posting this link. How interesting to learn some of the back story to the American Museum of Western Art – The Anschutz Collection. This was a formerly private collection that in recent years became open to the public for viewing. I toured the museum a few weeks ago – and it certainly “felt” that FFs fingerprint (or thumbprint) was all over that amazing collection. Thank you for the confirmation of that. With the possible exception of the Smithsonian, I believe this is the most extensive collection of Western Art in the world. And it sounds as the Mr Fenn had a big part in that. Interestingly, the museum is located in the old Navarre Building in downtown Denver, right across the street from the Brown Palace (home of Brown, anyone?). The Navarre building was lost in a card game (sounds kind of familiar) at one point in 1889, and eventually became a “sporting house” or “bordello”. Legend has it that a tunnel was constructed between the Navarre House and the Brown Palace (for discretion). A little “canyon down”, perhaps. The Brown Palace is not my solve but it’s fun to think about art and time and timelessness – art captures time for eternity. That place between memory, the present and future.

      • For those who dont know where to listen to the two of them, google “Forrest Fenn Audio Letters to Bill Griggs”

  12. BTW, I want to be cremated. The plan is to eat a bunch of popcorn prior to death, give them a party while my corpse is cooking, LOL.

    If anyone intends to be buried, please ask them to bury you face down so that we have a place to park our bikes while visiting the grave!

    Kidding of course, just wanted to lighten the mood 😀

    • Sounds like a party I might want to attend. I too want to be cremated – had not thought about the popcorn – That could be a blast! 🙂 JDA

  13. JDA
    This is beautiful, thank you for sharing.
    I have slightly died many times from a illness ive have had all my life, I can relate and understand this solve completely. Ive seen that light and a complete calmness and peace that follows, and then to be brought back …so I forgot the tarry scant part and well here I am ! 🙂

    • YEA for you Sweettea!

      I am glad that you liked my interpretation. I have not yet traveled the road that you have, but glad that I sot it somewhat right. JDA

  14. JDA –

    Thanks for sharing. Forrest Fenn is a very special person. He has defied death many, many times. A part of his soul is in that box! Anyone can identify the rivers, streams and canyons taken down, but it’s going to take “imagination” to solve the poem. Fenn’s poem leads to a spot that has great importance to him, just like the waterfall that kept its “secret promise” to bring him back.

    If your solve does not have imagination, stay home and play canasta.

    Fenn has been blessed with life. He is a chosen one.

    Here’s to LIFE and LOVE!

    • How right you are my friend about Forrest, and yes, it WILL take a lot of imagination to solve the riddles in the poem.

  15. JD, when I posted a month or two ago about how I thought the poem could have double meanings you shot it done and said it didn’t. Glad to see you came around and are now using your imagination and open to knew interpretation.

    Good luck in your search.

    • Thanks Jw;

      I had never considered double meanings before, but my subconcious went to work, and this is the result. I have always tried to use my imagination in “solving” the riddles of the poem. This interpretation is NOT an effort to solve the riddles – it is just an alternate interpretation. JDA

    • JW,
      Many readers of the poem have different interpretations of what the poem is. Some have directional point to point interpretations. Some read it as fenn narrating a journey of of another. Some read it as life and death or even birth and death. Some read it as geography landscape. So read it as an outhouse [ not one of my favorite, but can see it] … etc.
      Have you considered the possibility that all/most of those styles of readings encircle each other into a single reading? Are we told to analyze the poem over and over again to see them? To think about how all the possible/different interpretations can be significant to understanding the poem… Multiple Meanings of word usages can give us many different readings, but in the end, there should be only one way to read the poem that gets us precisely to the trove … how do we get to that last point?

      • Seeker, “but in the end, there should be only one way to read the poem that gets us precisely to the trove … ” Please do tell us what method that is. We await your answer. JDA

      • Again seeker, you miss the point – this posting IS NOT designed to be a discussion of how to find the treasure. If you want to discuss that – there are many, many dedicated to that aim. You are making yourself look foolish.

        Why can I make such a comment? It is MY posting.
        I know what the intended use of this post is.

        I am not trying to play traffic cop. I am trying to keep the subject on what it was intended for.

        If you chose to comment on my actual posting, I welcome any and all comments. Good, bad or indifferent. I welcome such comments in fact.

        Show me where my interpretation of any line or sentence does not make sense. You offered the same challenge to anyone that wanted to comment on you Abstract Thinking posting. I
        offer you the same challenge. Stay on topic, and fire away. JDA

        • The Q&A I presented “… is the poem designed to convey a deeper significance? Is there a subtle message you are sharing with the reader and hope they realize?
          Answer; No
          Is on topic for this discussion.
          You wrote that this crossing over interpretation is “possible,” however, you show know information to back it up… whether it’s about “searching” or not … you’re saying this is about the poem. So, Yes my comment is on topic completely… I’m on topic more than most, including you.
          As I said before, it’s pure speculation to say fenn “Might” have died and was brought back.

  16. Thanks so much. I am glad that you enjoyed it. It was my pleasure to share it with the world. I am lucky to have a great subconcious that figured it all out for me. JDA

  17. “And in the end, The love you take is equal to the love you make.”

    ~John Winston Lennon and Paul James McCartney ~

  18. Well Well, JDA I find all of what u said very interesting. Thank u for sharing some of your thoughts.

  19. Thank you JD, I really enjoyed your what if interpretation of the poem. It was beautifully written and it does fit nicely, doesn’t it.
    Peace be with you.

    • And Peace be with you eaglesabound. An interesting What IF isn’t it? I hope that you too go in peace. JDA

  20. I had pondered a while back that warm waters (98.6 degrees Fahrenheit) halt at a graveyard in a riddling way. Completely forgot about that line of thought until now because it can’t be found in a graveyard. But thinking about it again, maybe he gave a place to start at….in a hint about where not to end it. Nice story.

  21. Hi everyone happy thanks giving .some of the things you are talking about are on last page last few paragraphs to Ttotc.

  22. Thanks, JDA. I believe much of the poem can be read on many different levels, from various perspectives. As of the circle of Life, I had read much of it as both beginning and end.

  23. I think Forrest said this in the Moby interview.
    “I believe that there’s a higher hand someplace. I don’t know what it is, but…
    “I believe in karma and some of those things. I’m not a religious person, but I’m probably the most spiritual person around.”

  24. I would like to thank all of those that have read my post, and that have have very nice and complimentary things to say – Thanks again.

    In closing, maybe it is best to quote Forrest on this subject.

    From page 147 of TTOTC:
    “The past will always be contradictory when told by one person at a time. I feel my life has been a rough draft of the place just ahead where the past will come alive again and all of my experiences and friends through the years will meet with me at the great banquet table of history. Then there will be no past.”

    To me, at least, this validates my interpretation of the poem. JDA

    • Here here, JD.
      I think your interpretation was right on the mark with what Forrest was trying to relate to us.
      now, can you please find that chest!!

    • JDA— thanks for that quote. Your interpretation is very compelling actually, especially when considering the words “the answers I ALREADY know”. Thanks again for sharing.

    • Don’t know if this will work—answering an old post.
      But I find your ideas thought provoking and inspiring. I also took the general idea of his poem to reflect his feelings at this stage of his life. After all, it is about where he wants his bones to rest. How could it not be connected to death?
      Especially the line Why must I go?
      Very much enjoyed this interpretation you have posted. Thank you.

      • Mama;

        You are most welcome. It is still nice that an occasional traveler visits my near forgotten shore. This solve, may not be THE solve, but it came to me in the night, and I was compelled to put my thoughts into writing.

        I am glad that you liked what my “Dream Spirit” had to say. JDA

      • Oh I see it was already done by someone else. I promise I wrote that without having seen anyone’s I almost said that I’m sure this connection has been made . Next time I wil search the site to see if the idea has already been established. Sorry, I really wrote that without seeing if anyone else had come to that conclusion. I assumed people would though. I blame it on “mommy brain”. No idea who made that term but I say it all the time “mommy brain” lol

  25. JDA,

    I’m not putting down the work you put into composing the post nor your personal beliefs. But, I do think you have simply delineated your own thoughts and beliefs on the aspects of dying and life after death using the lines of the poem to organize them from your perspective.

    I don’t think anything you wrote was any way the expressed intention behind Fenn’s poem. The poem contains the instructions to find a treasure chest, nothing more. There’s nothing ethereal about it. While your post is a pretty good flight of fancy, I think it is based on your own experiences and beliefs. Nothing I read do I believe is even similar to the mind of Fenn. I’m not saying I know his mind either, just that your post is yours alone, nothing of his.

    The What If’s you expressed are not ones I would consider myself, since I believe them baseless. Just sayin’ I respectfully disagree with you in these thoughts.

    Stay safe out there…That I agree with…

    • Well said – Thanks for the post. I will neither agree nor disagree. To me, my earlier post of this morning seems, at least to me, expresses what Forrest feels about an after-life, and it is not in conflict with what I posted. JDA

  26. JDA,
    I agree with your interpretation of the poem…. thank you for your words… your thoughts are always refreshing. Have a great day my friend…..until next time…see ya

  27. JDA,
    Being of a different faith, why did you use Old Testament scripture? Do you
    believe in the Old Testament, or just the creation? In your writings above, about crossing over, where ever that is, is it a place of knowing? Else where in those scriptures it says that the dead know not anything, and there is no more reward, and neither is there any portion forever.
    Eccl. 9:5-6. I enjoyed your writings, I have read it twist. Does it speak of
    crossing over in your faith? I am not into a reasoning section, I am just
    Interested. I have backed up from the Bible. What is the book called that
    you believe in? Have a nice day.

  28. Near Death experience,s…
    Catching Cody and crashing in Skippy,s car.
    Almost starving to death in the Rocky Mountains with Donny.
    Did he really shoot the cat or did he jump into the tree to avoid being caught by the cat. The cat lost in the jump.
    Being shot down and having to abort his plane in the jungles of Vietnam.
    Having cancer and recovering from it after being told he didn’t have long to live.
    The cat has nine life,s. 🙂 Add if you must.
    JD, Even though I don’t think it’s what the poem says,I liked your post,well thought out.
    So many solve,s only one will be the icing on the cake. And the Master baker knows that and like most chef,s he will not reveal the secret ingredient .
    Happy Holidays y,all. 🙂

  29. Yes I agree that the entire idea of the poem, the book, and the Chase is tied to crossing over the boundary between time and timelessness.

    The theme that runs throughout the book and many of his statements is that he is exploring time and timelessness. Time; past, present, future is a continuum in which we all exist. All of the poets, writers, and artists he quotes make statements about our place in that continuum. We exist in the present. We live our lives and make our mark in time and then move on to eternity or timelessness. We become memories for someone else’s life in the future. Memories are a connection or intersection of the present and past, but they are not the actual experience. Fenn is exploring what all this means and trying to find ways to unify or dissolve the edges that separate the past, present , or future. When time and timelessness unite, memories no longer exist because they can only exist in the present.
    Remember in “Important Literature”, the first chapter of the book, TIME magazine was thrown in the trash. The last sentences of the book are: “I feel my life has been a rough draft of the place just ahead where the past will come alive again and all my experiences and friends through the years will meet me at the great banquet table of history. Then there will be no past.”
    In between those two chapters are the memories of his life.
    There are things and places where time and timelessness intersect. That is why his artifact collection is so important to him. It connects him in the present to the past. That is why he tells people to “please touch” which is another way to physically connect to the past. He put his biography in the chest and in the bells and jars he buried for the same reason and it is why he doesn’t care if they are found today or 10,000 years from today. His life will not be forgotten like the French soldiers or his father after all the people with memories pass on. So it makes sense that this is an important part of solving the poem and that the place the treasure is hidden will be a place where time and timelessness intersect. That is why the place is special to him.
    Fenn quotes from the book
    p.9 But with all my days now, in the fullness time, it seems prudent to do a little investigating about higher things.
    p. 15 Sooner or later each of us will be nothing but the leftovers of history or an asterisk in a book that was never written.
    pp. 101-103 The name may be remembered if it is written, but what of the person? No, each one of us has faded like the smell of a daffodil. No sooner does one depart than another takes its place, again and again, only for the same fate to befall.
    “Did Shakespeare really say, in other words, that most of us come into the world for a little while, are blessed perhaps, then depart and are soon forgotten by history? Of course he did! And Longfellow, who was born almost 200 years ago, wrote: “Lives of great men all remind us we can make our lives sublime, and departing, leave behind us, footprints in the sands of time.”

    He created this whole thing as a way to make his “time” here on earth timeless.

    • Great post Jack, and I agree.
      Remember what was written before a lot of ‘vignettes’:
      Many of the objects in my collection are significant in a very small depiction of world history. Most are more interesting than they are important. Nevertheless, it is necessary for me to remember that each piece represents who we once were in a time that used to be, and that I will never be anything more than its temporary custodian.
      Also his quote from little Gidding.

      Now all we have to do is find a location from this theme..

      But hey, I have a time machine, it only goes forwards in time, and travels at the rate of 1/sec per sec…

      • Your logic, Jack, would then dictate that to find the treasure, you have to find a way to make his memories physical again…interesting.
        It a ‘ball’ to catch and run with maybe.

        Which memory, and how.?..the poem describes the memory somehow? the memory of a location?

    • Very well written, and it included a lot of insight into Forrest, and maybe the “motive” the poem and why he his it – Nice job – JDA

  30. JD…great use of “what if”, but alas, I don’t feel F is considering his poem in that respect. Although, no rule says you cant. I did enjoy it.
    Seeker, I usually agree with you, but as a friend, may I suggest loosening up a bit. If JD is using his “time” to relate his perception of the poem to the bible, that gives you more “time” to think ahead of him, solve wise.
    Jack, BRAVA ! ! ! I have said many times, that TIME has a lot to do with the poem/solve.
    There is a beautiful bronze sundial on top of Mt. Evans, CO.
    But it’s too high up, 14,000+ elevation. Some of the clues fit to the surroundings, tho.
    Poetry is read not only with our eyes, but with our hearts. This blog is a perfect example of that, and also why no one has yet to find the treasure! Our hearts all see it differently.
    Again, JD, a sincere “thank you” for a breath of fresh air. I always make sure to read your comments! Your words hold the wisdom of your years. ~WAIT!~ Did I just call you an old fart politely?! LOL…sorry!
    ¥Peace ¥

    • Donna;

      I’ll have you know I resemble that remark, and am proud of it. Thanks for the nice words. Have a GREAT day Donna.


  31. Wow JDA! That was beautiful ! Touches on many things I’ve been learning lately. Sorry it took me a few days to comment. I really respect your thoughts and words. It’s so funny that we have so many of the same thoughts and ideas but our solves are obviousy not the same. : )

    • WY Girl;

      It pleases me that you liked my post. Thanks for the nice words. Isn’t the chase fascinating – as you say – “We have so many of the same thoughts and ideas but our solves are obviously not the same :-)” Have a GREAT day. JDA

      • JDA, thank you for sharing your interpretation. A lot of what you say seems to fit well with the poem. I look forward to reading your comments and thoughts because it is clear that there is a lot of wisdom in your words.

  32. JDA , You & LMN (Re: motive theories, Odds & Ends) might find the Wernher Von Braun (Brown) religious conversion interesting, maybe even relevant in some way, I wonder if ff in radar school & pilot training in the South in the early 1950’s might have been intrigued by a Huntsville Times headline, and a later coincidence or an occupant in Los Alamos. Just a winter-time ramble on Google.

  33. OS,

    You made my head spin (4) times with that post. Do you care to be any more specific?

    I have already found a sufficient motive and triangulated a position where I am confident enough to travel. Because I don’t have his book(s), I don’t have the slightest idea of how the radar/training/Los Alamos/Huntsville Times ties everything together like you suggest.

    All you Fennexperts have me beat! I have a catchy little vague poem and a valid motive to travel. Do you happen to know if I need permission of some kind?

    PS. The religious conversion of W V B, however, is something that I also have experienced in real life – so I look forward to meeting him (WVB) sometime. JDA is still working on that chase, too;)

  34. I don’t know how you guys who don’t read the book can participate in the hunt… seems to me a little like someone invites another to share a big Thanksgivng dinner and the invitee replies, “No thanks, but send me a picnic basket of the food I would eat if I would bother to come.” Fenn wrote the book because he wanted to express something he felt important, and he threw in a handsome chit to get you to read it. I don’t understand the behavior. But these are different times I guess.

  35. OS, I am a relatively new (1-year). Saw the poem…was told that the poem was all that was needed. Later found that there was a map and a book and blogs and more books and videos and events and more videos and now a movie! Simply a matter of personal strategy. Too many chef’s with too many seasonings spoil the soup and too much information clutters my (feeble) mind. Besides the man said, “all you need is the poem.”

  36. LWM, I apologize if I offended, but I think it is a small courtesy to also read the book of this unusual man if you are going to play his game, I urge you to do so.

    Anyhow, if you have the inclination, read the Von Braun Wiki site. The 1950 Huntsville Paper headline announced that WVB said rocket flights to the moon were possible. Would space exploration be interesting to a young man who’d done so much exploring on his own & was currently employed at the edges of Space Age tech? I think so. Later ff comments that he was in Germany and hauling A-bombs. Then coincidently, Von Braun winds up deep in military and science doodoo in neighboring Los Alamos. Locals must have been very curious about it, and probably Fenn more than most. Intelligent minds tend to travel many roads.

    Just a curious trail towards HOB. Good Luck in your adventure.

  37. You are absolutely right about the, “small courtesy.” I actually have a growing interest and enormous respect for ff that I did not have merely a year ago. So, eventually, I will buy and read them. Until then, I have to “Chase” my way.

    As you know that (IMHO) entails “motive(S)” for the Chase based on the words, “MUST go and leave my trove for ALL to seek,” based on “answerS I (he) already know(s).”

    A couple of us have had dialog about this (new?) theory, but very few have shared opinions on the “motive(s).” To me, that verifies that the hidey place is still very well hidden – from nearly everyone.

  38. LMN, When your quest turned to ‘motives, I think you stepped into some deep & slippery stuff, But Fenn did say there was one thing nobody had focused on yet…. maybe it was motive. So how will you determine that without reading the book? Or do you think it is in the poem? Is it a guilty motive, a charitable one, and educational one, legacy insurance, heaven insurance …. all very curious. Your turn to explain ….

    • OS,

      You are right. Deep, slippery, dangerous and perhaps unfair. That is why I don’t intend to discuss this much longer. It is not fair to be negative and wrong…so I hope that we don’t ever go there.

      Yet the 5-6 people who have commented over these past few days have really added to the debate in meaningful and positive ways. I may believe that I have uncovered “motive,” but that does not mean that I have uncovered details. There is so much more to know or confirm or disprove.

      You asked how I can do that without reading the book. My reply, there is so much more information out there about this amazing man, not found in his book (at least I don’t think it is in his book because of rarely being mentioned by anyone.)

      It is (IMHO) in the poem, “Must go…leave trove…all…seek…answers…already know.” Along with the hidden location (obviously, the poem has everything needed).

      Then, one must apply the, “Why MUST,” questions to your list and others not listed:
      MUST relieve guilt? Possibly (IMO)
      MUST be charitable? Doubtful (IMO)
      MUST be educational? NO (IMO)
      MUST leave legacy? Possibly (IMO)
      MUST buy Heaven? I sure hope not…will not work!
      Any others? I am curious too. We have seen some quality comments from others who, so far, have been fair and reasonable and even complimentary as they comment on possible motive(s) for creating The Chase.

    • OS,

      I spent a lot of time responding to you about 7 hours ago. As I posted, it went straight to “moderation” and I have not seen it again. I did not keep a copy. Now, it seems that ALL of my comments go to moderation and that takes the “thrill” out of the blog. Guess that I will just have to go silent, again. I hope that you eventually see the reply…part of it needed to be shared to keep the converation going in the correct direction.

  39. A lot of people make promises to God at certain occasions. When someone is sick as death from drinking they often promise they will never drink again. Very few keep their promise.

    Some others when faced with death make overwhelming promises to God. “Oh, let me live and I promise I’ll give half of what I own to the poor”!! But again, very few keep their promises.

    Could the poem and the Treasure be someone who is really doing what they promised-?– that one in a million person who aims to really give what they said they would? It makes me wonder.

    • That makes me wonder too…….but that would make me wonder why he said it was the most atrocious thing he had ever done………..but then that would make me wonder what he meant by that…………

      • The word has be baffled as well. Two thoughts come to mind;
        1. We simply won’t know what he meant until the chest is found and/or were it is found.
        2. The original intent, to die with the chest… to have someone rob his grave site… more or less.
        Hence; take the chest and leave my bones, comment.

      • Perhaps by atrocious…. is what many would think ludicrous. By hiding, so well, items of great value. And leaving to chance that the chest may b lost to time, never to b found….?????? Of course that’s all speculation.

        • Atrocious can also mean unspeakable… And once he hid the chest he couldn’t speak about it’s actual true location to ANYONE… That would make it unspeakable or atrocious… But then he wrote the poem after??? But I guess that’s not really speaking or is it??? 🙂

  40. In solving any mystery most investigators/solvers first try to establish “motive”. In a crime mystery motives are often a more direct and easier route to establish. The Chase is a bit more involved and considerably more ambiguous involving the hiding of something valuable.
    How many times have we all heard the saying “just follow the money” ?
    It seems that a great number of various crimes perpetrated against others are done so by someone close to the victim. The motives almost always involve crimes of passion or ones involving money, or both.
    I think that the solution to this Chase will come down to establishing Why(exactly) Forrest hid the treasure. He has stated various reasons for creating the Chase, but I believe it is a bit more involved than that….
    “Atrocious” is an odd word to describe what he was feeling about something he worked on for so long.

  41. Looking at mention of down twice (mirror) as in “canyon down” and “quickly down” which followed towards each other marks the heart of the poem structure?

    “As above, so below, as within, so without, as the universe, so the soul.”
    – Hermes Trismegistus

    • That can be construed in so many ways. Of course my mind jumped to the darkest possibility, probably because of where’s it posted. And what I was thinking about before I jumped on. I’m sure it was actually a happy thought that caused you to post it 23 🙂

      Whoa, nice way to start my morning on blog, lol.

      • WY Girl,

        Taking from the HT quote above you can see:

        As = Above within the universe
        So = Below without the soul

        In Forrest’s poem you can see the first stanza starts with “As” last two stanzas start with “So”

        Weaving words with intention? Of course, that’s what an Architect aka an Alchemist does. That’s how I see it.

        Check out the Crescent Moon on Dec 2nd:

        • Now that’s some history there, 23! And since we are on this particular page I feel it may be an ok place to say that I find the different religions and their histories fascinating. Probably cause I read to much Dan Drown 🙂

          • WY Girl, Slooh always tells the history and the mythology with every celestial event they cover in a webcast. I’m interested in hearing about connection to the rise/fall of the Ottoman Empire in their Dec 2 event.

    • Yes SL…the ravages of war continue to remind us just how “atrocious” things can be…
      Somehow, I believe that Forrest’s use of “atrocious” in regards to hiding Indulgence was intended in a different way. Maybe outlandish would be a good descriptor.

    • That is one of the things that breaks my heart, the children of war. One other mystery of my dads time in the war was he evidently saved a child’s life but has no recollection of it. How I would love to figure out that story!

    • Thanks for sharing those powerful posts. Just what are you saying about “atrocious” from the perspecive of ff? Before that, where was it that he used the word, “atrocious?”

      The atrocious thing that stands out in my mind was that pilots served in war zones and were not even given weapons to protect themselves/others. That is a – politically run – war at it’s worst.

  42. Ken,

    I think The Flyer was/is making a statement. – He, IMO, is an independent thinker and survivor in every sense of the word.


    • I’d like to believe his use of “atrocious” as being “monstrous, marvelous and/or extreme”. 🙂

  43. Hi JDA do you still have any contact with M r Fenn? I haven’t heard much news about him sense his birthday. Heard some news some guy in New York put a movie together about the chase.

    • Clint;

      On occasion I email something to Forrest, but he almost never replies, And that is OK. I won’t put a number on it, but his responses are a bit less than what can be counted on a three year-olds birthday cake, and the emails I have sent would burn the house down….If that gives you any idea. The total number of words Forrest has sent me I can count on both hands and still have a finger or two to point with. And that is all perfectly OK with me.

      Probably more than you wanted to know, and less than you were hoping for. JDA

  44. JDA—–

    I have had the best same experience. I have received very few responses to e-mails also. It’s strange— there are a few bloggers who seem to have a direct line to Forrest. Everything Forrest writes they completely understand, and decipher it for us.

    They have somehow developed EFP (Extra Fennsory Perception) and know exactly what Forrest is thinking and saying. One day I hope to develop EFP also, and there will be no need to e-mail him ever again.

    • Forrest is a very busy man, and I try to respect his Dr.s wishes that he stay away from computers, so I make my emails very short and friendly…and DO NOT expect a reply. And I NEVER ask for help in any way or ask his opinion on anything. Just brief status reports and friendly banter. JDA

  45. JDA thank for your response and everyone else too.i made two trips this year to Montana and I knew where it was both times.i did not come home empty handed got lots memories and beautiful pictures.i don’t know how to post them . I will have my grandson help the fire hole river and the Madison . Made both trips in fall beautiful weather some snow after that 75 degrees.I am sure he didn’t hide it in the park by leagal points.

    • Clint;

      If you want to post a write-up of your trip- – – – Write it up, along with the pictures (where you want them) and email the package as an attachment to an email that you send to Dal. Dal’s email address is printed just above his picture on the right side of each thread.

      I look forward to hearing and seeing what you have to post. JDA

  46. I’ve much enjoyed being a fly on the wall for your post, JD. Thoughtful insights by all. Thanks.

    • The fly on the wall has a unique perspective on all that happens around it. Hope you have enjoyed the sights and sounds – JDA

  47. I appreciate your post JDA. One of my solves (a double solve) uses this kind of interpretation. I’m glad to at least see that someone else is seeing WWWH as death. If I get to my (new) spot this year, I’ll post about it.

    • I am glad that you enjoyed my post. Good luck to you with your solve – and remember – always TRY to STAY SAFE – JDA

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