Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Twenty Three


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645 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Twenty Three

  1. Wow. I think I’m first!
    Sitting in our tornado shelter. Tornado just touched done a mile or two from my house!

      • Thanks PD. It’s moved north of us now. Heard a few reports already that there is some damage in our town. Hope everyone is ok. Still under a watch until midnight but hopefully that was the worst of it.
        It’s been quite a few years since any actually touched down in our town and it’s only mid-January! Hope this isn’t indicative of how the seasons gonna be.

        • You’re welcome. I hope everything remains calm and there’s minimal damage. Hang in there.

          • There’s a bunch of water on our kitchen floor. It didn’t sound very bad as the storm was passing over but it was strong enough to drive a bunch of water in around the door. Guess we’ll see in the morning if there’s much damage.
            It looks like it tracked straight over the stadium. At least it didn’t happen during the game or right after.

    • You must live near Casper…Every time I have driven through that area it is a blowin! Semi trucks and campers lying around like road kill. Hope all is well.

    • jeez WYGirl, only just noticed this new thread, things are rather tumultuous over in SB164 too, at the mo

      are you guys ok? did anyone get hurt in your neighbourhood? are your pets all accounted for?

      we don’t get tornadoes here, but I am always fascinated by their sheer power and unpredictability.

      wow, maybe you should move to much safer place ..like Iraq.

      • Hobbit,
        Everyone is fine here. No damage to speak of anywhere that I saw today and no reports of injuries. Our little dog is safe and sound (she’s so deaf she didn’t even notice all the noise from the storm) and I haven’t heard about any missing pets in the neighborhood. Definitely could have been A LOT worse! We have much to be thankful for!
        I’m popping over to SB 164 to see what all the ruckus is about now (but maybe it would be safer to duck and cover?)

  2. Hope everyone is safe this morning. With all the ice and tornadoes, mother nature sure has a way to add insult to injury.
    Take care

  3. Thanks for your thoughts and prayers everyone! We didn’t blow away or wash away in the deluge last night. This morning the sun is shining, not a cloud in the sky. Mother Nature sure has a mind of her own!
    There doesn’t appear to be any damage in our neighborhood. Don’t know how much damage is elsewhere. We all have much to be thankful for this morning, that could have been much worse last night!

      • Yep Not Obsessed! A redneck from TX. I don’t have a “job” (at least not in the traditional sense), I don’t have 12 of my own kids but would be happy to “adopt” some, definitely an Indiana Jones type, have a pickup and really wish I could just throw a bedroll in the back and take off to look for treasure 🙂

        • WY Girl I wasn’t referring you to be a red neck, LOL.. The weather you talked about and it going near the stadium sounds like you are in the DFW area, just being curious if you are from TX and hunting WY or were from WY. I’m about 60 miles south of Dallas, born and raised there, no doubt I identify as a redneck and proud of it. Glad you were OK in the storms.

          • Haha Not Obsessed! It’s funny how the same words can mean different things.
            Yes I’m in the South DFW area but born and raised in Wyoming. I’ve always been a country girl (don’t tell my husband he likes to think I’m a country club girl 🙂 ) and proud of it too, so definitely can identify with “redneck”.
            Hope you weathered the storms ok also if they hit your area.

  4. Wonder if Forrest watched the Packers Cowboys game yesterday.Very exciting game.Wish his Cowboys would have won.

  5. Dang, I’m still not getting all of the email notifications when a new post is made. Guess I’ll have to break down and visit your site more often Dal. 😀

  6. Randy Bilyeu was reported missing north of Santa Fe on Jan. 14 2016. One year and two days ago. Makes you stop and think that life is fragile and the real treasure is getting out and enjoying it while you still can. RIP R.B.


      • KimC-
        It doesn’t look like they have a major distributer who can take it out for a large theatre run…not yet anyway…Maybe they will pick one up in the festival screening process…that sometimes happens…
        If not you can probably expect to see it on Amazon in a few months…

        • Thanks, Dal. I wasn’t sure how those things go. Would like to see it sometime, somehow. The trailer looks very interesting. Have a great day!

  7. “Donnie looked at me like an untipped waiter”

    stiff (v.) Look up stiff at Dictionary.com
    late 14c., “to make stiff,” from stiff (adj.). Meaning “fail to tip” is from 1939, originally among restaurant and hotel workers, probably from stiff (n.), perhaps in slang sense of “corpse” (because dead men pay no tips), or from the “contemptible person” sense. Extended by 1950 to “cheat.”


    Don’t tell me I never shared one 😉

    • Another meaning of tip = clue

      I find it a little retrospectively ironic that Donnie Joe would be looking at F like he didn’t have a clue at this juncture.

      • That’s pretty good !
        Do you think Forrest was indicating that he was being looked at like a clueless waiter which could end up without a tip ?

      • Funny thing is that this statement could be either Donnie looking at Forrest or Forrest looking at Donnie .
        “Donnie looked at me like an untipped waiter”
        Just the way Forrest likes to tell stories !

    • Two can keep a secret if one is dead?
      Jonesy you cleverly come up with thoughts… but I need you to explain where you’re heading with this, if you would… I’m having a brainfart day I guess.
      I mean, that is as subtle as subtle can be…”tip”

      The L&C tale has always caught my attention. Yet, Unless we’re supposed to retrace F & D movements I’m lost. Kindly asking for more…

      • The phrase about dead men pay no tips is a very old one. It was said by people using guides hunting or fishing to remind them to be kept safe when off the trails on expeditions. Donnie looked at him like an untipped waiter because he would now need to find a clue/tip to get home.

        I’m not ‘saying’ or ‘cryptically telling’ anything. Merely exploring something openly and hoping others might be interested and/or even help. I don’t post stuff to preach I’m right….I post stuff to open doors, not close them and hide on the other side like I have some trophy. It’s just an open ended thought I shared I guess.

        • See there… never to old to teach a new dog tricks… or something like that.
          I wouldn’t have connected the saying with ~ …using guides hunting or fishing to remind them to be kept safe when off the trails on expeditions. ~
          Ok thanks… back to pondering, and rambling.

  8. Maybe we don’t follow their steps, just their direction….At that point they let the horses lead the way….I’m no horse person but how do horses travel generally? Do they follow streams? Scents? Any Horse people know?

    And yeah I know there’s no exact pattern probably. But lightening certainly had a blaze. And a blaze marks the beginning I would think the first clue may be somewhere in that concept. For example dogs don’t follow set patterns but if someone said let the hounds lead the way I might look for something scent related….What do horses tend to gravitate toward? Water? Low ground? High ground?

    • If I recall the story correctly the horse were as thirty as the guys… Yes, horse can smell water from a far distance. But, the horse were use to find the water [ if memory serves me correct ] it was the water that they knew would lead [ down ] home.

      • I thought they finally let go of the reins and the horses led them to the road. So, I wondered if the horses knew the area already (?) Or maybe they just found it on accident looking for water (?) Hmmmm…..Thx.

        • LOL don’t go by my memory… I was know to be wrong three time in 4 plus years… A miss cut and paste [ thanks loco] the use of “Most” in northern SF [ thanks Dal ] and I’ll skip the other one… it was a little embarrassing. [ Thanks a lot Goofy ]

      • Holy Wowza-fascinating. Thanks PD….Now I’m gonna be up another 3 hours lost in thought.

        • I believe you’re a quick reader and won’t have any problems. I tried calling my son for the information because he owns a horse.

          • I’m beyond fascinated. It they were using the photo type cells (I’m only guessing because the chapter mentions 2 landmarks (the canyon getting narrower and narrower and the tallest mountain they’d ever seen being to the south) I’ve always assumed the highest mountain to be Mt Elbert and imagine it would have to be a landmark the horses would know (heck I live in Ohio and I’d recognise it from a can of Coors haha) so assuming that was south I just checked for the north trail and saw that it would lead to half moon road. Kinda ironic as it was getting dark. Cool.stuff! And thanks for the article….My new strategy might be thinking like a horse. Of(f) Course!! Really though crazy cool article super thanks 🙂

          • You may not want to. I’ve seen some horses that weren’t too smart and I know you wouldn’t want to be known as such. You’re much too clever. The last time I rode a horse, it saw the barn and galloped towards it. Yes, it knew what was there.

  9. Are you implying it would be not be hard to find a not so smart horse with both hands and the lights on? I hear thems fightin’ words. Lol.

    • Oh my gosh, Jonsey1! I’m not sure what you’ve read in my posts, but I think you’ve read it wrong! You’re hilarious! 🙂

      • Lol- do you have the book? That was just a rephrasing of what Donnie Joe said to F at the moment he “looked like an untipped waiter” and the “smart asses” gave them rides out.

  10. Well, Goofy hates the same ol’, same ol’ W..R..R, so let’s try this!

    You old timers remember Gadi Schwartz, doncha?

    Well, on Aug. 28, 2011 Gadi told us that Forrest:

    “Says he took it in parts” (well before FF said two trips publicly)

    “Says home of Brown “very important” “ (something alluded to since, but not directly saying it)….sorry Jake 🙂

    Then, on Dec. 4, 2011 Gadi told us that Fenn said:

    He says the treasure is relatively easy to get to if you know where it is.

    And, in the same breath Gadi says Fenn sent him email, “The mountains are not your friend when they are covered with snow.”

    Then, on Dec. 11, 2015 Forrest says: “*If you know precisely where it is you can probably retrieve it in any weather”

    But, maybe Forrest doesn’t know what he’s talking about and we really must wait for the snow to melt before we can get to the treasure????

    • Hello locolobo. I didn’t start the chase at that time, but it’s been a while since I’ve read what Gadi had to say. I believe what may be important is that it’s his word of what Mr. Fenn said. Who’s word would you prefer, Gadi’s or Mr. Fenn’s?

    • Loco,
      Those links you supplied are not from F.
      I would not put too much weight in them & I feel sorry for you guys that tell me “sorry Jake”. U2 CH.

      Blub, blub, blub…
      get your snorkel ready.

      As far as HOB being “very important” from that person other than F, I would have to question what is more important? Where HOB is? as F stated you need or what HOB is which he did not state.


      • Well, Jakester, you got me there…..very astute of you. But, I was aware that the links were not from Fenn, when I posted them.

        However, you miss the point.

        Gadi Schwartz….. If you are not familiar with him, it would behoove you to become acquainted with his works…..If Gadi reports that Forrest said, “the treasure is relatively easy to get to if you know where it is” and that Fenn said “home of Brown “very important”, then I feel quite sure that Fenn said it to him.

        Ask Dal his opinion of Gadi’s veracity!

        Hmmmm…..it’s curious that old timers haven’t questioned Gadi’s statements 🙂

        • Some of the earlier “reports” regarding the Chase were rather sparse and sketchy to boot. They were probably more down to earth and more innocent at that time because the whole thing was so new. With all of the speculating going on ….fact vs. fiction has become an important aspect. With this being said…I would bank on Schwartz’s comments being very reliable.

          • Ken, Seeker,
            That’s good for you guys.
            I don’t really think these statements are very helpful considering I think where HOB is very important & is a clue.

            As far as the other statement, F has come out & said if you now precisely where it is……
            It’s easy for him because he knows where it is.
            So maybe these Gadi statements just reinforce things even though they were said years ago. They really don’t help me much.

      • I noticed recently that one of the peaks at the extreme northern edge of Montana is called Mount Brown (elevation about 7000 feet).

      • Jake,
        Loco’s comment mention a source that I also consider more reliable than most. But if you want the same from the horses’ mouth…
        T&E interview [ found in media section ] @ approx. 2:55 If you find the treasure chest it won’t be a big job for you to get it.
        So my advise is, make sure little 3yo sally waits on the short-line.

        • Let’s just say it is in a pool of water about 3-4 ft deep.
          The water going to be cold.
          Would any of you consider this to be too difficult to get the treasure out from the bottom of the pool?
          I don’t.

          • The treasure is not hidden in a dangerous place in the normal definition of the word, realizing that there probably is no place on this planet that is safe under all conditions. Bloggers have quoted me as saying that a child could walk up to the treasure. I don’t think that’s an accurate quote because a three year old girl would have a problem without some help. Remember, I was about 80 when I hid the chest, and had to make two trips.f
            A three year old would have a problem without some help. I keep repeating this one Jake, because if a three year old is capable with “some help” to walk to the chest… 3 or 4′ of water is very questionable.

            Add in all those other comment JCM pointed out…. throw my body on the chest for one example and I can debunk the thought of a water grave for the chest.
            Fenn also implied how can anything not be wet in the RM’s even if it’s buried…
            and at one time stated “probably wet”… you’d think if submerged “probably” would not be an option.
            Dismiss all the after the fact comment ya like… But Please video the find… I would very much like to see you pull a 42lb water-filled 10″ sq chest, out of chest deep water.

          • Seeker: “A three year old would have a problem without some help. I keep repeating this one Jake, because if a three year old is capable with “some help” to walk to the chest… 3 or 4′ of water is very questionable.

            I will not bring a 3 yr old with me on my next search.
            Maybe a 4 yr old.

            3 or 4′ of water is a swimming pool for those of that age when I was that age & was fun & cold until my hands pruned with white canyons.

            Don’t you you remember that?
            I do.

          • Seeker;

            What you fail to take into consideration is the fact that you are using logic, and that is something that Jake seems to avoid.

            Jake has made up his mind that it is IN water, and nothing that you nor I nor Forrest can say that will persuade Jake to think any differently.

            But, that is just my observation of Jake, and I have been known to be wrong before. JDA

  11. — on Forrest’s advice to people searching for the treasure:

    “… there’s people driving down the street looking for a blaze, because that’s one of the clues… but you can’t start in the… in the middle of the poem and find the treasure, I don’t think. I mean … it would be a miracle if someone did.” f

    I think that there is a specific reason he said this the way he did. Well… I actually know the reason, but you know the politics of blogs 😉 The crazy part is, any of you can do it… if you can find and recognize what it is that he meant in that quote.

    • I forgot IW…literally. just kidding. When are you going to get it again? I forgot April…May ?

      • It should all be over by May, if time is on my side. Prepping second round of edits, for my book. Time is working in my favor… for now.

      • “but you know the politics of blogs”

        POLITICS?????…..WHERE???/…..why the dirty, rotten……

        There ain’t no stinkin’ politics allowed in this establishment!!! Where, tell me where they’re at Will?? I’ll report em to management fer ya. I know how distraught a sensitive feller can get over such things. 🙂

  12. Dear Iron Will,
    I am truly sorry for all of the politically incorrect things I may or may not have said to since you have been frequenting Dal’s blog. This may come as a surprise to you…but I think …secretly… many here really admire you and your tenacity for getting the job done. I know that you are looking forward to your upcoming journey to be the one to find Fenn’s treasure and I just wanted to be the first one to formally congratulate you. When this is all over and you have attained stardom please remember that I was rooting for you the whole time. If you can see where I am coming from…please think about how nice I am now and maybe lend me some moola in advance. Thanks in advance Iron Will !
    Yours Truly
    ken ps….I think the ranch idea rocks !

    • Well thank you Ken. Just got back from the gym, 2 hrs cardio at 170 bpm. Gotta get ready for the cameras that add 50 lbs 😛 And don’t worry about the Ill Will (pun intended). He wont exist once it’s over. As Forrest said himself, once he’s wearing that bracelet, I’ll have all the revenge I ever needed for those people. 😉

      • Not to be too forward…but… have you considered my request for an advance…on account of my being so nice? I mean…like… I have this really bad MAP habit that I need to support.

        • Sure I’ll give you an advance. When you watch it… pay attention.

          We’ll call that, ‘advanced warning’ 😉

          • So… I take that as a NO…you will not take my being nice into consideration…and send me some MAP money…I found this real nice one that I just have to have!

          • IW…I was being real nice…but that’s over now. haha…go over to SB163.5 and imagine sitting in the cockpit with the headset on and you’re soaring through the skies on the way to stardom….there yet? Now…a strange tone just started in your headset…hear it? Well…it goes with the funny little red flashing light that says SAM. It just flew up your tailpipe and right about now…. stars forever. You don’t have a chance friend.

        • I’m reminded of this quote:
          “Well, I think we tried very hard not to be overconfident, because when you get overconfident, that’s when something snaps up and bites you.”
          ―Neil Armstrong

  13. So I have looked at most of the comments Mr. Fenn has made about how close people “have been” to the treasure. I’m sure one of the ol timers will assist me if I missed one.

    Allow me to speak a bit of heresy if I may. I propose that it is very possible that no searcher has been physically close to the treasure (200ft/500ft) and Mr. Fenn never lied.

    In the age of technology our language has evolved. We don’t create new language every time we come across something new, we simply adapt what we have to explain new things. As I type this I am “on” my phone. I “went” to the internet and entered the home of Dal to tell you all my thoughts. I’m hanging out with you all right now. Tell me has anyone “been” to Google Earth before. Have you seen the terms they themselves use (e.g fly anywhere, have you been to xxx, etc.).

    I submit that if Mr. Fenn could have been talking about people using Google Earth (sometimes or all the time) and telling him where they were searching. If so then his statements about how close people have “been” are entirely accurate. It is our problem if we draw incorrect assumptions of physical proximity from what he says.

    Just a logical possibility to consider.

    • Clee—

      In one of the “solves” submitted by a Spanish couple they mention their interpretation of someone having been within 200-500 feet to be a “search engine” also. I had thought of that too—that someone could click on an area 200 feet from the treasure on GE and Forrest Fenn may have been able to discern this computer search. Perhaps someone has a quote or something though that would point to an acutal “physical” search coming within 200-500 feet.

        • I was playing with that to see if I could understand a 200 vs 500 ft distinction. Oddly on my google app it seems the screen shows about 200 ft across fells zoomed in. But upon further thought I feel it is more likely to be a discussion of precise location. Such as if you said you were looking at Canyon Mountain and the chest was 500 feet from the peak then he could make that statement. If another was eyeballing a rock outcropping on its north face then they were within 200ft. Just conjecture but find it to be a reasonable possibility.

    • Clee,
      You may have missed a few other words fenn used as well, in regards to searchers and the chest.
      Walked by, the remaining seven clues, and the chest.
      In just one of the many interviews and comment;
      SF podcast approx. 11 min. I mean, people figured the first couple clues, and unfortunately walked past the treasure chest.
      Just prior to this comment fenn stated, It’s not a matter of trying, it’s a matter of thinking…

      • Seeker,

        Thanks. Yeah I did see those. I feel like they are figurative references though primarily due to the contex of the conversations relating to people “solving” the clues rather than a direct conversation of physical proximity. “People figured” the first couple clues. “Its a mater of thinking”. I think walking was a simple metaphor for solving. I think he is an imaginative man who uses metaphors generously. Just my opinion.

        • Clee,
          You need to look at all the comments… the following is just one to make a point;
          I don’t know of anyone that’s inside of 200 ft, but you know, I don’t know, they tell me where they are, and some of them exactly where they are, and so that’s how I know that. But so many of them tell me that they’re in a spot that’s in close proximity to the treasure, but they don’t know that they’re that close to it

          While this comment doesn’t say unequivocally that searchers were actually there… when we add all the comment on the subject together, it become a bit more reasonable that the searchers were physically on location.

          I would guess, from previous discussions, there could be two dozen comment/quotes on just this topic. I highly doubt fenn used all those physical terms as metaphor usage. That in my book would be a bit misleading. A kinda tease and pull the carpet out from under… thought… you were only close on paper. or in this case electronic mail.

          Just my take…

          • You could be very well correct Seeker. I’m honestly not leaning one way or the other because I don’t find the argument is convincing either way. However, I will say that your sort of making my point with your comment reference. Everything he says jives with how we would use language to describe a search conversation the search using Google Maps or other technology. I also do not find it misleading. Mr Fenn set the tone for the search in TTOC when he seemed to tell us his position on candidness with “you should always tell the truth, but you should not always tell ALL of the truth”. I think this is important when we look at what he says though some may disagree.

  14. I posted 2 different things. Not sure why I am not getting notifications. I clicked the notification buttons.

  15. Hi All.
    The following is my opinion of how to solve this. I have kept quiet till now.
    I don’t think anyone will solve this until they have figured out the 6 places mentioned in the poem. I have them solved and am now working to figure out exactly where indulgence is hidden.
    By the way, indulgence is an anagram for ending clue, how ironic.
    Best of luck to you all from New Zealand.

    • John R,
      I would say that this is messing with the poem & would turd this approach as the crow flies.

      • Hi Jake.
        I don’t think anagrams are messing with the poem. Forrest didn’t say not to use them. He said ciphers are no good but didn’t mention anagrams. He used them alot in his writings.
        Here’s one.
        Tight focus word that is key.
        Becomes touch gifts they ski toward.

        • You’re right John,
          He did not eliminate anagrams as far as I know but to take the letters of a word or phrase & rearrange them to recreate different words seems to stretch the boundaries a bit.

          I believe the original quote came from dal when he mentioned that “halt” doesn’t rhyme with “walk” to F & he said not to mess with the poem & it would appear to me that any rearranging of words & letters would be messing.

          • And he word that is key is “key”…Anagrams have been looked into before, but go for it. It’s not messing with the poem if you are instructed to do so. It is an example of “force fitting” though. I take it your 6 places are close to each other? Really close…

          • What John said is that ciphers are no good. That is a logical result of Forrest’s statement that codes and ciphers will not assist anyone in finding the treasure.

          • I know Iron, I hate that statement. Can’t be used to find the chest but used in positive solutions. I thought if I solve the poem, I’d find the chest. Guess not. Positive solution can’t find the chest, hmmm. Or maybe a positive solution from a cipher. Wouldn’t that be a negative solution? Sense the English language is a form of a code, I guess using English would not result in finding the chest… But, it would give you a positive solution. lol, okay, enough, just playing…

          • Charlie. In response to your previous question, my 6 locations are quite a distance apart. IMO I think that taking the poem literally by finding WWWH then finding the canyon then HOB is not the way to solve this. That’s my opinion anyway. Good luck Charlie.

    • Well, I guess all of the rest of us can take the winter off, since all has been solved, except one slight detail, figuring out where indulgence is. Shouldn’t be a problem for a kiwi, or is it a dodo bird – I forget. JDA

    • Hi John R,
      Imo. And because we share similiar names :). I think it was someone clever here that posted something about anagrams and the “s” in answer or answers and how if that doesn’t matter, then maybe anagrams don’t. Or something like that. But to each their own and good luck. We are all in the same position. Going back to the first clue. 🙂 at least I hope so. Again IMO, grovel grovel imo.

    • Another anagram is “clue ginned”.

      vb (tr) , gins, ginning or ginned…….
      6. (Hunting) to trap or snare (game) with a gin

  16. Mr Silent –

    I would love to hear about any of the places you have figured out. Keep in mind that someone has probably come up with them before. We like to hear about them so we can discuss and maybe reminisce.

    May I add that I find it fascinating that you think the poem refers to six places?

    Lugnutz is here

  17. Tibetan Sky Burial…chopped up and fed to the vultures. Is that what we do here? Maybe a clue here. And maybe not.

      • John R:

        I think your anagram for indulgence is great. You have all the right in the world to voice or share your opinion- IMO. I am very interested in what you have to share.

        BTW, I am planning a trip to New Zealand in January or February 2018. Hobbits, glowworms, Maoris, mountains and penguins are on the agenda!

  18. John R…if you come to the U.S. to search for Indulgence, you really should try fly fishing. It is considered by many to be the most elegant and pure method of angling (as opposed to trolling, for example), and Mr Fenn was a life long devotee of the art. Perhaps your WWWH is near a trout stream…I hope so. And above all, enjoy the Chase. It’s a blast.

    • Thanks Sandy. Didn’t consider that I was trolling.
      Remember when Mr Fenn said that the chest is scented and was pillowed in?
      Did he actually mean descent pine lid low?
      Another anagram to consider along with his comment about anything in the Rockies would be wet even if it was buried 6 feet deep.
      That’s my contribution for today. Thoughts people?

    • I wish it did John. I cannot begin to tell you how many countless hours were spent trying to anagram sentences, and phrases that Forrest put out there. Like Muset said once, if the amount of letters is 20 + then you can literally make 1,000s of possible anagrams out of it. 🙁

      I loved the indulgence though. I never even looked at that one 😛

      • Will –

        Anagrams are useless in my opinion. Also that anagram was kicked around previously and pretty much the day after or the very day that the it was first written on the blog. The comment about the anagram was on another blog probably chasechat.

        But here is the thing for me. I always ask the same question.

        Let’s say that Fenn used Indulgence in a post on Dal’s blog in 2014. Let’s say he intended it to be an anagram for Ending Clue. What’s does that gain? Where does it lead? IT doesn’t tell you what the final clue is in the poem.


        • John im also a firm believer in anagrams, and they do verify clues in poem. Just curious, where are you searching? If you know start point it helps a ton! I think forrest uses words as clue to help decipher. Treasures bol(e)d, have search partner weight in the car; tare…

      • It is true that thousands of anagrams can be made from each poem line; but only a dozen per line are good/great ones, IMO. The trick is to select the correct good ones, I think.

        Be careful. There are some amazing anagrams that can be made that seem like they must be correct; but then later you realize there are even better ones that can be made.

        Good luck.

  19. i would like to ask how many people have sent forrest their solve and also told him they were going to give it away in the last month or two.

    • Gary, Would you mind answering why you would ask such an unusual question and put such a narrow (time-frame) on it? I will have an answer for you…if you will…please.

      • shortly before forrest made a statement… to the individual who has the solve do not give it away, i sent him my solve and told him because of my physical disability i was unable to go search and that i was going to give my solve away.

        • Gary, I see. Did not know anything about that. IF the chest is where I believe that it is, IMHO it should be given to charity and in all likelihood sold by the charity. That would be the easiest way to avoid legal entanglements. That would mean that the finder would be motivated strictly by the “Thrill of the Chase” and not self-interests. Which makes me wonder, if that is what ff had intended all along.

        • Gary—
          I think there is a thread created for those who are unable to look for themselves and may want someone else to search for them. If Forrest was addressing you when talking about giving away your solve he may have been pointing you in that direction.

          Keep your solve— maybe you are truly on the right track— team up with someone who likes to shop at Gucci— that way when the treasure is found you can go to Gucci too, and not Walmart. 🙂

    • Gary;

      I interpreted your question to mean, IF I found the TC, I told Forrest I would give the TC away – answer NO

      If the question is did I say that I would give my solve away – The answer is an ABSOLUTE NO!!! JDA

    • Hi Gary,

      I sent him a Merry Christmas email and said that I still believed the treasure was at the ****, but because of my disability (broken neck, partially paralyzed) I have to find a sober friend that I can trust and try and convince them I am not crazy even though I may well be…

      Best regards,


  20. You folks sound like really nice people. But this is supposed to be about Fenn’s Quest. I suggest you use Facebook for your personal chats and respect the notion that people reading this site are there not to watch your dialogue about weather and etc. You are disrepecting the flow of enthusiasm for Forrest.

    • Bud–
      I think that is why this thread is called “odds and ends”—
      But I do understand your point.

  21. I have sent Forrest my solve. I did NOT tell him I would give it away. I can not afford to do that – sadly – JDA

    • Hey JDA. With all the darn hacking going on, aren’t you concerned about that possibility? I want to share my research with him too, but very hesitant to do so for that reason.

      To help mitigate that risk I’m considering sending what I believe are answers to several SBs and other things I believe have a special meaning to him as proof I’m in the right area. Things I do not believe a hacker would immediately recognize without a lot of work.

      For example, I could say “gold metal” and maybe something related to it. If I’m right, f will see the connection.

      I’m not expecting any sort of confirmation to that end, but it sure would be nice if he did.

  22. For people who think there is nothing hidden, anagrams, in the poem. What do see that would have taken 15 years to write?

    • Tim— not doubting Forrest put a lot into the poem, but for example, someone may say “It took 15:years to get that movie put into film”. But I don’t think they mean 15 years, 8 hours a day. But I do see what you are saying— there has to be something there far more than just a poem—something is hidden very cleverly and magically within it. I would totally agree.

      • sparrow- I think possibly what took that long to write the poem may lie in the poem seeming overly generic. I think it took a lot of effort to disguise some of the clues to appear like unimportant words. Primarily the potential (I say potential because I cannot definitively say there is one) clue in the first stanza. I believe he played with the words a lot to try and keep the cadence while (for lack of a better term) rolling back the clues from very specific to what appears to be very broad.

        • How do you make 100,000 people come up with the wrong solves? I think it took a lot of research and just plain old “knowlege” of the RMs.

  23. The inspiration of the destination may be humiliation & new infiltration may be the sustanation for victory.

    Verification is not with communication & can only be had with realization.

    Realization can only be had with justification.

    No one has them all.

  24. Watched NFC game …no surprise there. Only watched 1st half AFC game( I like the Pats)…then fell asleep. I was startled awake at 3am…weird dream. All I could remember was strange digital noises…and my left foot was the size of an apple crate. Checked the news…Pats won.

    • Hello SL. Thank you for the link. Unfortunately, I do not. I was there a couple years ago and do not recall hearing anything.

    • Hi SL…not to barge in but – when Golden Retrievers and I were searching Embudo Canyon in November we were trying to”listen good” for “The Heartbeat of the Mother”, which we had learned about from Sancho. Neither of us heard the heartbeat, but to the best of my uncertain knowledge, I heard the Taos Hum. It was very distinct, in a specific area of the canyon. It made a believer out of me.

    • Hello SL. This really has me wondering what is causing the sound. Do you think it might be coming from Los Alamos? I don’t know what the distance is between there and Taos.

        • Oh my gosh, WiseOne. You’re funny. For some unknown reason, my messages gets lost and Dal retrieves them for me.

          • hay pd,

            Try reversing the order….send the 2nd try 1st…..then maybe the 1st try will make it through the portal????


          • “gets lost?” That’s odd, isn’t it?
            “If you don’t know where you are going any trail will take you there”… So says forrest, anyway…
            Just messin’ with ya, pd. Hang in there.

          • (Second try.) Darn! Keep getting lost in space. You’ll get your message when Dal find it, WiseOne. 🙂

  25. Speaking of Odd things with the Chase, it’s no secret that I’ve stated (opinionated) that I know where the chest is located and it all should be over by May of this year. Now I don’t pay attention to horoscopes, but let’s just look at Chinese and my Gemini for this year, to find out what they say…

    Chinese Year of the Rooster (1969)
    Lucky Colors: Gold, Brown
    Lucky Direction: South-Southeast (trust me, it’s important)

    Gemini for 2017:

    Gemini Horoscope:

    -Time plans, such as sending out manuscripts or projects, or launching that idea to coincide with this, as this year you have a green light to go for it
    -You’re a big picture thinker, Gemini and usually brimming with ideas.
    -ON WEALTH— Gemini, in 2017 you are about to change in some very serious ways. You are about to change your long term plans for the future during this year.
    …..And the best one from http://www.cainer.com/yearahead/geminit.html
    for this year on Money for Gemini…

    Money Forecast
    I have a treasure map. Attila the Hun’s looted Roman gold was thought lost to the mists of time, but whilst researching astrology in an ancient, leather-bound tome, I’ve found its whereabouts No, don’t thank me – I require someone, with your sharp intellect and creative and curious disposition, to journey to, and excavate, at the mysterious ‘X’ marking the spot. But first, you must prove that you’re really as bright as you seem.

    I couldn’t make that up if I tried! I wish a person could confidently set there clock by horoscopes, because I like how mine is looking this year 😛

    • Iron Will- you are true to your name. I am glad you are experiencing the “thrills” associated with the “chase.” I hope you find happiness and contentment whatever the outcome may be.

    • IronWill, If I’d read this about me, I’d be doing cartwheels from Santa Fe to the Colorado state line. I go to PeiWei just to read the fortunes in the cookies. I never got one remotely close to what you just posted. I bet you can’t wait till May.

      • Yeah Cynthia, I don’t bother with horoscopes at all. I just saw something on Youtube and they mentioned their horoscope, and I thought, “Hrmm, wonder what mine says lol” Got blisters on my feet from power hiking, so no cartwheels though 🙁

  26. What happened to Mapquest? Arrghhh! Bought out by Priceline and now is lame 🙁 took away one of my tools to search. I liked how it had the places listed on it and points of interest and would toggle back and forth between map and satellite but now the maps are not the same. Besides Google Earth what other maps do you searches use if you don’t mind me asking? I need to find something else…..

  27. Thanks Muset! I’ll check it out. Thanks for wiping the tears off my face 🙂

  28. I realise my s.o.h is often abhorable (I blame Hallmark Cards, personally) but I thought I’d share a funny solve anyhoos..

    “begin it where warm waters halt”
    warm = friendly. Friendly creek (in Wyoming, next to Friendly Park) ends at the juncture to Bear creek – no, NOT Brown, but I’ll get to that shortly..

    “and take it in the canyon down, too far to walk etc (too lazy more likely)”
    follow Bear creek SE through the canyon ’til it ends at Parker ‘Home’stead Road in Wheatland, Wyoming – the home of ‘Brown’ wheat ( ..well ok, I made that last bit up slightly, but wateva)

    “from there it’s no place for the meek”
    follow P.H Road and North Laramie river SW, past Rattlesnake draw (scared yet??) ..and keep going

    “the end is ever drawing nigh”
    approaching Yankee Draw now (endgame?) ..just keep on going tho

    “there’ll be no paddle up your creek”
    ..because it’s a river (bingo!) ..but keep going, nearly there

    “just heavy loads and waters high”
    have you got to Potato creek (@6300ft) yet? ..potatoes are heavy too ya know!

    “if you’ve been wise and found the blaze”
    just past Potato creek, you’ll find Coyote canyon – now, this is the amazingly ingenious part, so bear with me for a mo…
    Coyote and Blaze are both brands of barbecues – it’s true, just google it.

    EUREKA! ..looking quickly down (south) expecting to find the treasure any moment nowOH WAIT ..there’s no TREES!! ..and where have all those smelly sage-bushes gone?!!

    ( ..ummm, I think the Russians may have got there first – darn it all!!!)

  29. Mike Forni,

    No doubt. No doubt at all.

    Had the opportunity of viewing this exquisite masterpiece first hand at the Smithsonian.



  30. Does anyone know if Master Fenn was in Yellowstone when the 1959 Hebgen Lake earthquake hit? If so, that special place (his campsite when it hit) would have been embedded in his mind for a lifetime. I still remember where I was when 9/11 hit. I can’t imagine the sense of fear and stress it would have caused if Fenn actually experienced it or was a part of the rescue efforts.

    Any insight by anyone?

    • Hello Mike. I believe he may have been serving during that time. This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

    • Mike-
      Forrest was not in or near Yellowstone during the quake. His AF duties kept him far away. His mom and dad were in West Yellowstone but left a couple days after the big shake for Temple because vacationers had all left and no more were coming. The area was bleak indeed. There was no one to stay at FennHaven and there were no tourists seeking fishing guides. Forrest’s folks closed up Fennhaven for the winter and left for home.

    • Mike,
      Which Master fenn do you refer to?
      Interesting enough Master is an earlier version of mister or Mr.
      There is an article floating around about Mrs. Fenn being interviewed about that night. Mr. Fenn went down the canyon to help.
      It may take some digging for the article [ if I have it, I’ll pass it on ].
      I don’t believe forrest fenn was at the location during the quake. interesting enough… some blame the quake on explosion testing [ exactly what type of testing, i’m not sure ] but involve an underground oil reservoir…

      • Dal and Seeker,

        Thank you very much for the response! This Earthquake has popped up a few times in my research in the last couple of weeks. We all know the “Madison River” is heavily discussed in the Chase. The Quake probably has no connection to the Chase, so just another rock turned over, with nothing under it…..


        • Mike,
          I was just looking for the article… It was in a newspaper from Temple TX regarding the quake of 59. Maybe that will help you track it down.
          I wouldn’t dismiss the possibility just yet.

        • Mike – I agree with Seeker…

          Curious about the long-term fate of both the chest and the quest, I asked Fenn whether the clues in the poem will also withstand the test of time. “I am guessing the clues will stand for centuries. That was one of my basic premises, but the treasure chest will fall victim to geological phenomena just like everything else. Who can predict earthquakes, floods, mudslides, fires, tornadoes and other factors?” Fenn says.

  31. Go to the link below and read the section on “Structures”, particularly the sentence just above the examples. One of my current solves leads to some ruins, which I had originally discounted because of the “not associated with a structure” comment from f.

    Is it possible this is just another example of him being tricky?

    I believe it may be hidden around the ruins, but not somewhere that finding it would cause any damage to said ruins, and definitely not buried.

    Anyone else have thoughts on this?


    • Pi –

      The word ruins is often proceeded buthe word scant. Ruins are right up Fenn Alley.


    • I once had a solve that involved ruins. Didn’t pan out for me. According to govt. definitions ruins are not structures.

  32. Since this is the odds and ends page, I think this is the best place to post. From the beginning to the end, I had many pre-conceived notions about where the chest might be, what the clues might be, where to look for information, how to interpret clues, and the list goes on.

    Most of what I thought was useful at the beginning was not and the more I learned the more intrigued I became. The chase turned out to be very different from what I expected. As f has said don’t force your solve to fit the poem. Once you let the poem guide you, it will turn out be better than expected and also stranger than you can anticipate.

    I’ve been dialed into a very small spot in the Rockies for a couple of weeks, yet I still have to scratch my head. The poem, the books, the SB’s, other writings, and videos all provide compelling evidence so I feel very good yet still I wonder. A very odd ending to say the least. Maybe unique ending is more like it. Kind of like the guy who wrote the poem.

    • HMA;

      It all made sense until the last two sentences, ” Maybe unique ending is more like it. Kind of like the guy who wrote the poem.”

      Forrest having a unique ending???? Or are you just saying that Forrest is unique? Hope that that is what you meant. JDA

      • JDA –

        To me the ending and the man are unique. As in one-of-a-kind. Only he could create a chase like this with an ending like I’ve found. Not at all what I expected and I think that is one of the many reasons the chest hasn’t been found sooner.

      • JDA – I should have clarified that everything adds up and makes perfect sense but at the same time it is very unique.

        • Again HMA, good luck with your solve, where everything adds up and makes perfect sense, but at the same time has a unique ending. JDA

          • “If you are brave, and in the wood I give you title to the gold” HUMMM – Unique ending – A-HA – You find the Treasure
            Chest hanging from one of the upper limbs of a Pinyon tree, wrapped with a pink ribbon with purple polka dots. The limb is old and rotting, and overhangs a cliff that is 100′ above the canyon below.

            At the last moment, a chipmunk gnaws the ribbon, while searching for Pinon nuts, and the TC plummets down the canyon, the lid flies open, and the contents are strewn into the raging torrent below. Now that would be a unique ending 🙂 JDA

          • JDA – Thanks. I wish you the best in your search this next time. No matter how things pan out, I’m sure we all have many treasures to be thankful for. Sights we might have never seen, knowledge of new things, imagination unfettered, and a thousand other things that are the result of one man’s plan to take us on a journey if we so dared to accept the challenge.

          • JDA – You have quite the imagination but that is not what I was thinking. I think f was right when we need to look at the big picture. Maybe it’s not all logic and maybe it’s not all imagination but a balance of each to move confidently to a spot that isn’t dangerous but not easy.

          • Thanks Jake – Glad you enjoyed it.

            HMA – As you say, regardless of how it turns out, the pile of treasures I have already accumulated have been priceless moments and days with my family members. At times, four generations of us. My son, and his two kids coming out from Virginia…My daughter from Pennsylvania, My step children and their kids, and even her daughter (4 generations) all out in nature looking for a treasure. I can honestly say that in my almost 75 years, I have never had so much fun as I have had with this puzzle. Y E A
            Forrest!!! JDA

        • HMA – Do you mean the final area is not like what you were imagining prior to reaching the end? But given other things you know about the man behind the chase, it actually makes sense?

          I’m just curious if we haven’t arrive at/around the same conclusion. Feel free to e-mail me: Franks_Jam@yahoo.com

  33. Apologies if this gets posted a second time but it has been awaiting moderation since noon….

    Go to the link below and read the section on “Structures”, particularly the sentence just above the examples. One of my current solves leads to some ruins, which I had originally discounted because of the “not associated with a structure” comment from f.

    Is it possible this is just another example of him being tricky?

    I believe it may be hidden around the ruins, but not somewhere that finding it would cause any damage to said ruins, and definitely not buried.

    Anyone else have thoughts on this?


  34. I think HMA’s point about needing a balance of imagination and logic is absolutely right. And I also agree that the poem will lead you to unexpected places, once you stop trying to overlay preconceived notions of where the chest ought to be, or what makes a place special to Forrest. That was a hard lesson for me.

    That said, it is incredibly difficult to pinpoint the final resting place, as the poem hides its prize so well. Even after finding what were potentially markers placed by FF, I’m having a hard time reaching a definitive conclusion, and have had to rethink my ending this last week. I’m grateful for the winter, as it gives time to analyze carefully without the excitement and pressure of BOTG searching. If you’re at all OCD (as I think many obsessive searchers may be) it’s so easy to become fixated on one spot, and miss what the poem’s trying to tell you.

  35. I suppose odds-n-ends is the best place for this post….I’ve watched as so many people have gone back and forth over whether its one private property, national, state, or tribal land. While I’ll keep my humble opinion to myself, I find that http://www.huntinggpsmaps.com is a great tool to use as it shows boundary lines and ownership records superimposed over google earth.

  36. Hi all out there in Fenn land just turned 62 today .my wife made me a triple decker German chocolate cake with the coconut frosting and butter peacon ice cream.for a birthday present I have a 99.9 percent solve.I got to have some of that rocking chair money.I think I am caching up with Mr. Fenn!

  37. hear me all I think we’re going down the same trail.By the way that is a unusual handle you have there! Find that in a Fenn rabbit hole?

  38. Michael what year are you.I am a1955 model Clint.as for going and getting indulgences I think the snow is a little to deep close to 5ft right now.

  39. here is an excerpt from an audio book i referred to a couple weeks ago as the rosetta stone of the fenn language……. “tall spires of colossal grandeur which in beauty and symmetry are superior to any works of art; beetling cliffs of rock, rising from the waters edge thousands of feet in height; while wood-crowned mountains, with delightful slopes and vista like parks coursed with purling streams and mountains covered with snows, capped and rising to cone shaped peaks and knife-like edges, or turretted like castles, and rolling away off in beautiful white pyramidal forms, were to be seen on every side. language is not adequate to convey an idea of the marvelous beauty of the scenery, which is beyond the power of description, and begets a wonderful fascination in the mind of the beholder who reverently gazes at the snow-crowned summits, that seem as if they were to show how earth may pierce to heaven and leave vain man below.”

    • Thank you for sharing this, Gary. It’s beautiful. Do you recall which audio book you heard this from?

          • i am dying to let the cat outta the bag but i promised forrest i would not. i feel it would cheat both him and the search community of the thrill of the chase. that being said, i took a page from his playbook, (metaphorically speaking) i promised him i would not give it away, i did not promise that i wouldn’t drop hints and clues that may allow others to be enlightened.

          • S-allies, you beat me to the punch. I was just getting ready to post this.

            Not sure why all the drama Gary. I doubt you ever had such a conversation with Mr. F.

            I found this article (not an audio) containing those exact words in less than 2 minutes. Since f didn’t tell me I shouldn’t post it, here you go folks.


            The quote is about 5/8 way down a very long page. Or simply enter “tall spires” in the Find feature after you’re on the page and it should take you right to the quote.

          • Gary is this the audio you are listening to?

            Yellowstone National Park

            Its Exploration and Establishment

            Aubrey L. Haines

            U.S. Department of the Interior
            National Park Service
            Washington 1974

            This expedition was reported in the Virginia City newspaper from infor-
            mation supplied by Dr. James Dunlevy, surgeon for the volunteers, and,
            though egocentric and couched in hyperbole (possibly an editorial fault),
            it is yet a very interesting impression, of value for its glimpse of the Mam-
            moth Hot Springs. Here is Dunlevy’s account as rendered by an unidentified
            “B G ” 108

            Dr. Dunlevy left Camp Green Clay Smith, near the mouth of the
            Yellowstone Canyon, about the 12th ult., with a small party, following
            up the western side of the river for about ninety or one hundred miles, 109
            and within a few miles of the lake near the head of this great river;
            traveling through a valley of great extent, richness and beauty,
            interspersed with scenery of most impressive grandeur and magni-
            tude, unsurpassed in the world. Tall spires of colossal grandeur which
            in beauty and symmetry are superior to any works of art; beetling
            cliffs of rock, rising from the waters edge thousands of feet in height;
            while wood-crowned mountains, with delightful slopes and vista like
            parks coursed with purling streams and mountains covered with
            snows, capped and rising to cone shaped peaks and knife-like edges,
            or turretted like castles, and rolling away off in beautiful white pyra-
            midal forms, were to be seen on every side. Language is not adequate
            to convey an idea of the marvelous beauty of the scenery, which is
            beyond the power of description, and begets a wonderful fascina-
            tion in the mind of the beholder who reverently gazes at the snow-
            crowned summits, that seem as if “They were to show How earth may
            pierce to Heaven and leave vain man below.” In addition to this, Dr.
            Dunlevy informs us that he discovered several large streams coming
            in from the western side, that are yet unnamed. When near the end
            of his journey his attention was called to something resembling steam
            or smoke, near the crest of a mountain, and observing springs of hot
            water gushing out of its side, he was induced to attempt to reach it,
            which he succeeded in accomplishing with very little trouble, there to
            find something that proved to be the key-stone to the arch of wonders —
            a boiling hot lake, covering an area of about forty acres! 110 A herd of
            antelope were quietly licking the salt along the edge, when a shot from
            his rifle brought one of them down, a sheath-knife soon severed off a
            ham which was fastened to a lariat and thrown into the lake, and in
            less than forty minutes it was taken out completely boiled and salted ! m
            The party ate of it and represented it as having a peculiar but pleasant
            flavor. The Doctor supposed the water to contain a large percentage
            of tincal, the crude property from which borax is manufactured, and
            has already taken the necessary steps to have it preempted and a
            company organized to have it thoroughly tested. . . .

  40. Thanks for a wonderful fascination, Gary;

    “that seem as if they were to show how earth may pierce to heaven and leave vain men below.”


  41. **That feeling you get when you share a VERY strong solve with your BOTG partner, and he hasn’t replied to your e-mails for a few days….

    *If you tell your solve to a friend, don’t be surprised if she shops at Gucci while you fill your cart at Walmart. f

  42. pdenver,

    Seems as tho we, a long with our hearts are often in the same place at the same time, or at least very close!

    An honor, my friend!


  43. IMHO, last lines on pgs 121 relate to stanza one, riches new and old. I can see the wall mart sign from here lol

  44. I’m re reading ttotc book, looking for the hints to better understand the clues, as he said. I think that last sentence on pgs 121 is one of them.

  45. It simply points out that he will be hinting about the chase by the telling of stories, memories…

    • I like your thoughts here HP,
      Even though he has bathed in the Firehole, Madison, Hebgen & probably a few more waters he has not spoke about.

      River Bathing is Best – Best is first, second best doesn’t cut it.
      Do you mean the hints help you with the 1st clue & the 9th clue in the poem?

  46. On pgs 60, he tells of ‘wisely’ producing a blaze…… if that’s a hint to a clue, it’s one that’s out there….

        • @gary re; your promise etc. Are you not able or willing to BOTG search? How long is this teasing going to occur? lol! Lightning comes to mind to answer your question above, imo!

          • i hope teasing is not how this is viewed, i am sorry if it strikes some as taunting, it is not my intent. i am trying to invoke a certain thought process. the question i posed i am not really looking for a correct answer. just like the clues in the poem there are a number of correct answers to my question. the clue is to determine “my” thoughts and perspective, just like forrests words can be interpreted many ways and not necessarily wrong, you must figure out what his perspective is. he made a comment once that has really stuck with me. the exact quote escapes me so i’ll paraphrase. it goes something like this……what difference does the word your using matter as long as the two people talking understand each other.

  47. yes spallies that is it. and i never said i had a conversation with him. i responded with an email to a comment he had made a short time ago.

    • Cool… I actually really like this description from the Wahburn-Doane Expedition of 1870
      “We kept the Yellowstone to our left, and finding the canyon impassable passed over several high spurs coming down from the mountains, over which the way was much obstructed by falling timber, and reached, at an elevation of 7,331 feet, an immense rolling plateau extending as far as the eye could reach. This elevated scope of country is about 30 miles in extent, with a general declivity to the northward. Its surface is an undulated prairie dotted with groves of pine and aspen. Numerous lakes are scattered throughout its whole extent, and great numbers of springs, which flow down the slopes and are lost in the volume of the Yellowstone. The river breaks through this plateau in a winding and impassable canyon of trachyte lava over 2,000 feet in depth; the middle canyon of the Yellowstone, rolling over volcanic bowlders in some places, and in others forming still pools of seemingly fathomless depth. At one point it dashes here and there, lashed to a white foam, upon its rocky bed; at another it subsides into a crystal mirror wherever a deep basin occurs in the channel. Numerous small cascades are seen tumbling from the lofty summits a mere ribbon of foam in the immeasurable distance below. This huge abyss, through walls of flinty lava, has not been worn away by the waters, for no trace of fluvial agency is left upon the rocks; it is a cleft in the strata brought about by volcanic action plainly shown by that irregular structure which gives such a ragged appearance to all such igneous formations. Standing on the brink of the chasm the heavy roaring of the imprisoned river comes to the ear only in a sort of hollow, hungry growl, scarcely audible from the depths, and strongly suggestive of demons in torment below. Lofty pines on the bank of the stream ‘dwindle to shrubs in dizziness of distance.’ Every??thing beneath has a weird and deceptive appearance. The water does not look like water, but like oil. Numerous fishhawks are seen busily plying their vocation, sailing high above the waters, and yet a thousand feet below the spectator. In the clefts of the rocks, hundreds of feet down, bald eagles have their eyries, from which we can see them swooping still further into the depths to rob the ospreys of their hard-earned trout. It is grand, gloomy, and terrible; a solitude peopled with fantastic ideas; an empire of shadows and of turmoil.”

        • with this article you should be able to understand forrests comment he made in an interview that he feels 271 degrees is a northerly direction from santa fe.

      • Gosh Spallies, I’m hearing “the call” once again through these words. Sure wish I could have gone this year, but it looks doubtful.

  48. The Rocky Mountain Front is such an important geologic feature that it affects the weather in North America. Warm air masses moving from the Gulf of Mexico are blocked by the front from moving west, causing hail, thunderstorms, tornadoes, and other kinds of violent weather which then move east. Chest is on the east side of the Rockies , I believe the front range that halts the warm water from crossing west over the mountains, this would mean the first four paragraphs gives the first clue.

    • The first four stanzas gives the first clue??? Naaa! We all know that wwwh is 1 and canyon down is 2 and walking is not an option .. we need to drive.. and hoB is where Molly lives…

      Just funnin with ya Thomas… But did you mean the first four stanzas give the answer? I’m following your train of thought, believe me I am. But there seems to be a significance of “9” clues. So lets say you’re correct that four stanzas give a single answer/location ~ how do we find the other clues?

      • Yes, the first four sentences sorry, I’m not really sure about wwwh, was reading the newest random words on Jennys site and if you read it as if you are the Rocky Mountains Forrest mentioned the bitterness outside and the warmth of a fire on his side. Just was thinking about it that is all. I do think the first four sentences gives you the area to start, then you begin your trip in there and the clues fall into place as you go as long as you are wise and don’t pass right on by a clue. Does anyone think it’s weird that there is not one word in the poem that we all can’t agree on, and say yes that is what Forrest means by that! After 6 years of thousands of people trying to untangle very simple words. As I’ve gone alone in there, could be Hermit’s Peak in New Mexico or Begin it where warm waters halt, could be in Warm Springs Montana where there are a dozen of warm ponds made to filter out hard matirals from old mines from going down the Clark Fork River and killing the trout. And how far is to far too walk? Lol

    • Thomas, I’ve considered that over the years. The problem now of course is if the chest was even remotely in the vicinity of a creek or river it’s probably gone or completely buried after the massive flooding of the Front Range in 2013. The flooding drastically changed the landscape. I witnessed the flood and it’s aftermath firsthand.

      • Yeah I thought it was my imagination at first too but I always go to the home page since it loads quicker on my tablet and it immediately looked different… Definitely real unless we are both imagining things… 🙂

    • I’ve seen it before . He’s at San Lazaro pueblo with Susan Summers ,I think.
      It’s on page 47 TFTW faded into the page.

    • Spallies-
      Good eyes!

      Yes..I changed it up for variety…
      Onaut is correct. That’s a photo I took of Forrest at San Lazaro..I think in 2012.

      He was walking around picking up pottery sherds to show Valarie’s kids.

  49. San Lazaro Pueblo appears to bring him such calm, comfort and peace.
    At least that’s what I sense from the photographs that I’ve seen.

    Everyone needs a place that gives them that feeling.


  50. Over on Jenny’d site she has a review of the new mystery by Forrest’s friend and novelist, Doug Preston.
    The Lost City of the Monkey God.
    I enjoy Doug’s writing and find his books to be a great escape from the aggravation of today’s headlines…and besides…Doug has touched the treasure chest…and you never know how much of his writing is based on his friendship with and knowledge of, Forrest.


  51. I know it’s wet.
    Yes B, physics tells me the treasure is wet.
    The chest weighs 42 pounds plus, best to have gloves.

    A few dew drops will not effect it’s weight too much but being under water will raise the weight, filling the open cavities in the chest.

    • Fog, IMO…. would be a consideration

      I wouldn’t discount fog, mist. and dew as serious contenders when defining “wet.”


      • I don’t think it’s foggy all the time anywhere although dal would possibly disagree. How would F know if there was a fog bank surrounding the treasure when he read the question or when he answered without being there at that time?

        He said it was wet in the Feb statement but that may be when it was posted & not the actual date of the answer & question. If it was wet in Feb, then he may be considering ice & snow as wet nut the treasure could be wet in Feb in the Rockies if it was under water just deep enough where it stays liquid.

    • Welcome to the Chase Jenny. Don’t mean to be pushy, but if you don’t mind me asking, where do you hail from? I’m in the beautiful liquid sunshine state of Washington and have been chasing 5-6 months now.

    • Hi Jenny! Welcome to the asylum 🙂 But, be careful. This may be addicting. Where is your location?
      Best of luck to you.

    • Welcome aboard Jenny…. Good luck to you while you chase your dreams…. I hope you find the treasures hidden within yourself while on your quest…. Take care…. Until next time… See ya 🙂

    • Mitten you say? Honesty Jenny, I’ve never heard that term before. That’s what makes the Chase so great. Constantly learning something new.

      I have not submitted my answer to the “teacher” yet for Lost My Spot, still kinda wordsmithing it as I don’t want to blurt it out because of those ^&(#)@ hackers, but I hope to send it in tomorrow.

      But a word of caution. Be very mindful of folks trying to take advantage and get a piece of useful info from you that will further THEIR search.

      Take care……… pinatubocharlie

      • @Jenny….Welcome to the chase. You can check out anytime you like but you can never leave. 🙂

        @Pinatubocharlie; I started to nuke you but you are new. If you don’t want to say anything that’s fine, but trying to dissuade others from talking about the chase will get you nuked faster than a tick can jump on hound dog…….Your only warning.

          • Or is that nuked faster than a tick can jump on a fox dressed like a hound….:) Welcome Jenny 🙂

        • Wow Goofy,

          A threat like that is not only unexpected but a complete over-reaction (no pun intended) as well. Newcomer or not, I was simply trying to forewarn Jenny that some folks here have their own agenda and to be aware AND cautious about that. I won’t apologize as I feel I’ve done nothing wrong here.

          So, I f you think I deserve being nuked, then I accept that punishment. Never cared for social media that much anyway, though I sincerely thought I was contributing in my own way. I honesty thought the Home of Dal was above this kind of censure, but perhaps I was wrong. Sure wouldnt be the first time.

          Dal, I have one request. As a professional courtesy, I would like to request you inform me via email (you have my address) that I am no longer welcome on your blog. I give you my word I will honor the action and refrain from posting another word on your blog under this name or any other.

          Respectfully, pinatubocharlie.

          • I’d just like to add a general point here, given Pinatubocharlie has brought this up on a couple of occasions now. There are thousands of people viewing this site everyday, and I expect a lot of lurkers hope to pick up useful snippets without contributing. That’s a given, and despite the fact that there have been countless full and partial solutions posted here, no one – lurker or otherwise – has succeeded in the Chase, yet.

            People who post here are grownups (with a preponderance of would-be geriatrics like me, it seems!), and know how much they want to divulge of their search and solution. I don’t think any of us needs to be paranoid about other people gaining an advantage from what anyone else posts on a public forum. That said, I have stated on a couple of occasions that I don’t want to give out hard-won information to people who aren’t prepared to do the work, but that’s a different situation – and one that’s fully in my control as a poster. Sure, sometimes I wish there was an “edit” button, but that’s more to do with embarrassing myself than concern about saying too much!

            I also get the impression that most of the posters who’ve been around for a while are very comfortable with the direction their research and understanding is taking them, and are not looking to “steal” information or misdirect others. In fact, I would go so far as to suggest that it would take more than a rogue strike by one of Goofy’s nukes to knock most of us away from the beliefs we already hold!

    • Hello Jenny. Welcome to the Chase. Had to look up the information to learn the “Mitten State” is Michigan. Learn something new every day. Have fun.

  52. In Gulf Breeze Florida they had a Black Bear attack yesterday. 3 cubs came into this man’s yard, he tried to scare them away and the moma came after him. Got one good swipe at his face and the man got away, then the bears took off into the woods. He got out a dozen stiches on his temple area. Lucky.

  53. Second time the charm. Not sure why my fist post didn’t “take” at least as far as the notifications are concerned that is. Anyway………

    Welcome to the Chase Jenny. Don’t mean to be pushy, but if you don’t mind me asking, where do you hail from? I’m in the beautiful liquid sunshine state of Washington and have been chasing 5-6 months now.

    • Here is my point: did I mean I’m at odds with the end of the Chase? Did I mean I’m at odds with the end of life – mine, Forrest’s, someone else? Did I mean I’m at odds with the end of the day? Did I mean I’m at odds with the end of my adult beverage? Or perhaps the end of a 15 year career?

      My contribution to moving with and within the Chase: context is everything. Without it, we might as well stay home and play canasta…

    • Which is it…Michiganians or Michiganders. I’m here as well. How many “Mitten” people are in this chase? Please raise your hands…

          • Super close to each other. Glad someone else from “the mitten” is interested in the chase. Seems no one else has even heard of it. My husband says I have “dragon sickness.” Lol

          • You watching Expedition Unknown right now? Had not seen it before. About a family looking for the Fenn treasure

    • Bob- no not currently watching it, but I saw that episode on YouTube. At least I think it is the same one unless the show covered Fenn’s treasure twice.

  54. I’m having serious deja vu reading these posts. Some are hitting twice, it appears. Little weird.

    Oh – and to Jenny – welcome to the Chase. Most people here are very nice and I consider this site very safe, with some interesting folks with even more interesting ideas.

    Scott W.

  55. Getting back to what someone posted earlier, what time of year did Forrest say he knows the treasure is wet? In January I suspect that just about anywhere is wet.
    -From the Golden State but no big gold in my house (yet). Notice how I did not say home.

    • TSAL;

      I believe that this is the quote that you were referencing:

      “Mr. Fenn,
      In your interview with New Mexico True Stories, you mentioned that you know that the treasure is wet. I checked out the date of that interview and it looks like you said that in a February, which could mean that you knew that it had snowed or rained at the site of the treasure chest, or simply because of higher water.
      Now we are in mid-summer, and if we assume that no storms have passed through recently, would you know that the treasure is wet now? ~Thanks, B
      Yes B, physics tells me the treasure is wet”. f

      Hope that this helps you JDA

      • Thanks JDA, makes me think it’s either in a marshy area or behind a waterfall…or in the river bed. I guess one might like to rest their bones for eternity in a “bed” of some sort?

  56. Don’t know if this is the right thread to post this. So someone can move it if it’s in the wrong thread.

    There is a news story out today or yesterday (January 30th/31st) that an attempt will be made by the feds to sell about 3 million acres of public land in the West to private citizens. Naturally, that would affect the chase IF the chest lies on land that is to be sold. I looked at the acreage for each of ten states. Insofar as the 4 chase states are concerned, this mostly would affect New Mexico, and Wyoming. It would affect Montana and Colorado substantially less.

    I’m sure Forrest is aware of this or soon will be. Even if the chest site remains open to the public, it might not remain so, if road access is blocked by a sale.

    You can find the relevant article on news sites. The story may mean nothing relative to the chest site. But the story does have potential implications.

    Ken (in Texas)

    • Interesting, although not altogether unexpected news, Ken. For me, one of the things that’s made the Chase so fascinating has been the ability to get out into untamed wilderness that is not burdened with endless restrictions, other than sensible rules about litter and fires, etc. I think it will be a sad day for America if public lands are no more.

      • Well of course I agree with you. And hopefully, the chase would not be affected, assuming that said attempt by the feds is successful, which itself is no sure thing. Only Forrest would know the extent to which this potential threat could impact the chase.

        • For those interested, it’s House Bill 621, introduced by US representative Jason Chaffetz of Utah.

    • I ran into something like that, Secret Gulch and Finn Gulch are on separate sides of the road in Montana and where public land, even with geologic ancient rock formations that are studied by colleges in the area, now there are posted. Look up these Gulches and they show up in Land for Sale in Montana, we just have to be brave and in the wood, you know ” Be the tree “, be the tree.

  57. Goofy. I am reposting this since it would appear my response yesterday didn’t get distributed.

    You said, “@Pinatubocharlie; I started to nuke you but you are new. If you don’t want to say anything that’s fine, but trying to dissuade others from talking about the chase will get you nuked faster than a tick can jump on hound dog…….Your only warning.”

    To which I responded, however, I did clarify one thing [in brackets] that could have been read the wrong way.

    “Wow Goofy,

    A threat like that is not only unexpected but a complete over-reaction (no pun intended) as well. Newcomer or not, I was simply trying to forewarn Jenny that some folks here have their own agenda and to be aware AND cautious about that. I won’t apologize as I feel I’ve done nothing wrong here.

    So, if you think I deserve being nuked, then I accept that punishment. Never cared for social media that much anyway, though I sincerely thought I was contributing in my own way. I honesty thought the Home of Dal was above this kind of censure, but perhaps I was wrong. Sure wouldnt be the first time [referring to me not you or Dal].

    Dal, I have one request. As a professional courtesy, I would like to request you inform me via email (you have my address) that I am no longer welcome on your blog. I give you my word I will honor the action and refrain from posting another word on your blog under this name or any other.

    Respectfully, pinatubocharlie.”

    • It’s definitely there (up the page a bit), pinatubocharlie, because I responded about ten hours ago.

      • Hi Vox. Thank you.

        The reason I reposted is because for some reason I did not receive an email notification of the first post which I use as confirmation that my post was sent out to the community. I should also note that I have yet to receive an email notification of the repost too. Very curious.

        Perhaps I’ve already been nuked and don’t know I’m now just a ghost.

        Take care………

        • Well I definitely got the email with your re-post (I’d forgotten to subscribe previously so I didn’t get the last one, if it indeed went out). If my situation is the same as everyone else’s, I only get emails for other people’s posts – not my own.

          Don’t worry, you’ll know you’ve been nuked by the mushroom cloud blooming over your computer! 🙂

  58. Seeker, you’re about the only one on this forum that I have any respect for, because you are a true treasure hunter. As for the rest, stick to exchanging dessert recipes.

    • It doesn’t matter what you think of me, or I you.
      To blurt out the forum is a joke… and the fact you give no reason for the shout out… seem you have something more on your mind.
      Be a man, say what you have to say…

    • “I don’t care what you think about me. I don’t think about you at all” – Jack Nicholson

    • I agree that Seeker is a true treasure hunter – as are many of the people who contribute to this forum. I think it’s offensive to damn everyone else like that. Some of us spend huge amounts of our time investigating this incredible Chase, make repeated trips to search, and write about our adventures. However, not everyone feels the need to talk about the Chase continually on the forum.

      • Voxpops…lol… I don’t even agree I’m a treasure hunter.
        I’m a journey Seeker plain and simple. I don’t need to the lure of gold… it’s all about the challenge, the bidding dare if you will, to find the end of the rainbow.

        I can understand Gordon’s frustration to a point. However, the lack of a full admission of his point caught me and many others of guard and seemed to be directed at the entire blog. That’s the only fault I see here to be honest.

        As far as “not everyone feels the need to talk about” it… the chase… well, that’s exactly what this forum was designed for. So talk away…

        • Yes, I know things go off at a tangent (whoops there’s that word again!) and can be frustrating to those who want to talk about the Chase. Maybe we’re all feeling frustrated by the long winter months. Spring can’t come too soon for most of us.

          I am with you 100% about the challenge. That’s the exciting part for me!

          As for talking, I agree it’s the whole point of the forum, but no one wants to hear me banging on about the same old things ad nauseam, so I tend to only pop in from time to time – until there’s something new and interesting to share. For me, recently, it was trying to deconstruct the latest Random Words, which I found very interesting – certainly not just a nice fireside chat!

        • Yes Seeker,
          You have come out a few times and stated it’s not a treasure hunt in your mind.

          But, you do know when the poem is figured out, it will bring you to his treasure.

          I think we can assume the last clue is very near the treasure & F probably didn’t have to walk more than 3 miles, one way from his sedan to hide it.

          The other clues may be many more miles away from a road or encompass many roads.

          • Jake;

            I’m putting my money on only two roads – One paved, one not. Distance traveled on each almost identical. Distance from parking spot to TC – much less than three miles – We shall see.

          • JDA,
            I would think you park your sedan or bus (seeing you bring a tribe with you) on the unpaved gravel road leading to the spot maybe less than a mile away.

            I was just guesstimating 3 miles would be max for him at that point of life.
            Could be less than a mile but it better be non-paved.

          • Jake,
            IMO, the way I look at the challenge, it’s not so much as treasure hunt as it might be a journey fenn is taking us on.
            Why would that make a difference? It’s all about how one reads the poem… interprets the poem… looks at what could be clues as what is needed to be done and not so clues to simply stomp from point to point.

            The destination is small, but the location is huge… Have you ever asked yourself why?

          • The journey that F is taking us on leads to the treasure.
            Parts of the journey & clues must be special things in space & time whether a thought or not.

            These 9 clues or things we have to figure out may not be in chronological order. Yes, we have to follow them in order in the poem but each clue in his real life experience & imagination may be a time scale before he was born but the “geography” quote tells me different.

            When that quote was released, I had read it many times as others.
            The destination is small, but the location is huge

            It kinda reminds me of the rings in a tree.
            The 9th clue may be the center ring & there are 8 other rings out to the bark.
            May be the Rocky’s is the huge destination & the small is where the chest lays & would have to think the spot is confined in some way.
            I left out the other obvious specs.

          • Jake –

            Did Fenn say he walked? I’m not calling you out I just don’t recall. I know he said did it twice in an afternoon.


          • Don’t be skittish Lug,
            The only memories I have from him relating to walking is when he walked back to his car smiling & the other more important one is when he said the one who finds it will walk to it or something similar. I can’t find the quote right now.

            Walk this way. He is a Arrow smith.

          • Jake –

            Let me know if you find that quote
            I have a solve that involves another modality.

            I don’t think he said walk to it he says move to it and went right past it. If he said walk that would make a diff.


          • Jake –

            That’s very nice. Though I supposed one could kick off one’s skis and still walk to it.

            I won’t rule it out.


          • That’s nutz Lug,
            I put a few miles on my ski boots & I am sure he meant he was not hopping off off a horse or mule or ATV or bike or sled for the one who has the blaze.

            Gotta ask & answer questions.

          • Jake –

            When I show you Rainbow’s End you will admit it’s not being the realm of possibility!


          • If you’re talking about the end of his rainbow & possibly where the treasure is, I would have to say he may have been talking figuratively.

            You know, There’s a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.

          • Jake –

            I am intrigued by the ski trail names that sound like cane out of Fenn’s mouth. Sure it’s a stretch but he has said Rainbow’s End a few more times than once. Maybe there’s something there.


          • Maybe the rainbow is created by a waterfall & the sun, Lug.
            Something more natural would be my guess.

          • A polite-like email from Kristie, who admits to being a desk person, prompts me to say that if you are walking long distances in search of the treasure, you’re walking too far. f

            …Too far to walk means different things at different ages so I was wondering if you would be so bold as to give an estimate of how far you walked to hide the treasure after leaving your car: was it >10miles, between 5 and 10 miles, between 1 and 5 miles, or less than 1 mile?   ~Thanks, Ron

            Ron, your question sounds like a travelogue, but I’ll answer it. No, I don’t want to be that bold. But I will say that I walked less than a few miles if that will help. I just looked “few” up and one definition is “scant.” Why do I sound like I’m talking in circles? f

            Joe, you make this thing so complicated. Reminds me of the reason I don’t like meetings. I hope you don’t belong to a PTA someplace. I made two trips from my car to the hiding place and it was done in one afternoon.f

            There are others… this was a quick search…
            You guys might want to check out JCM offer.

  59. I’ll tell you, Seeker, I don’t like to see anyone graveling like pinatubocharlie felt like he had to….because the moderator threatened him. Big Turn Off for me, Brother. You are my only competition, Seeker, as far as I can see, so may the best man win. If not me, you.

    • SEE, Now I [ and others ] know what you were attempting to say. Would have been easier if you just explain yourself from the get go.

    • Gordon;

      I find your statement interesting since Seeker has stated on more than one occasion that he has no solve, how can he be your only competition,— when others, Zap, HearMeAll, Vox and Iron Will (To mention only a few) have all stated that they have completed solves. Very interesting. Care to explain? JDA

      • P.S. I saw no gravaling (Misspelled) on Charlies part. As a matter of fact, He stood up for himself quite well by saying, ” I won’t apologize as I feel I’ve done nothing wrong here.”

        How is that groveling? (Spelled correctly) Just askin’ JDA

    • GL –

      I don’t think the forum is a joke but want you tell me what you were hoping the forum would be or what you would like to get out of it

      You just tell me and then I will do it.

      If what you said just a reaction to the conversation between Goofy and Charlie I think your reaction was flippant but not inexcusable.

      You’re new like Charlie and you guys can tell us what you want to do here. Maybe it’s a good fit and maybe not.


  60. I felt like Gordin put a rusty bucket down my well. Ive had multiple complete solves and have a real good one right now. Others like myself ,tend not to post often , but i enjoy the jokes/recipes when the chase slows down–especially during the Winter season.

    • Who is he, Hulk Hogan. How many “brothers” you have Seeker? And, lets use actual screen names. I was starting to think it was about me. ( JDA, I have a complete solve,:)

      Too many “smarter than you” people on this blog for your comments Gordon. It’s best not to even say, sense other peoples help at some point may be needed. You or anybody else is not solving this thing by themselves.

      • I wasn’t trying to skip you Charlie – as I said, “To mention only a few” There are a few more, including myself plus you and those mentioned who indicate that they have complete solves – Sorry if you felt slighted. JDA

      • I’m an only child by choice Charlie… lol.
        Even my school records indicate as such;
        ‘Doesn’t play well with others’

  61. Truly, I think that everyone here is terrific and I truly like visiting this forum, but the threats I can do without, and I have seen many from your moderator aimed at different searchers. As for the recipes, that was aimed solely at your moderator who always reminds everyone of his position on this forum. There is another one like him on another blog, CC. They are nobody’s with a little power, they can delete YOU!!!!! So be very afraid!! Big Deal. So what. Do it…

    • I once got into an argument with a moderator on a musical instrument forum because every time I posted about a particular product whose imminent release had been leaked, my posts were deleted. I felt it was wrong to stifle legitimate discussion, but I was told that, because of the leak, it could cause problems for one of the site owner’s colleagues. Eventually, I had to accept that even though it was a public forum, it was a privately owned site, and I had no right to free speech. It didn’t feel good, but I sucked it up.

    • Gordon,
      Humble pie & crow pie are the 2 main recipes here.
      I got tired of them & decided to add an old hat.

      • Don’t forget the ole foot in the mouth recipe too Jake…What flavor did you say your hat was?

        • Believe it or not ken, I was going to use the foot in the mouth line at the end of my comment, but I backspaced & realized Heavyfoot stopped teething at the time.

    • Dang Gordon, there ya go again… If you have faults with how the site is run… there’s an e-mail on every page to send the complaint to, or simply click on the image…

      • Reminds me of an old Twilight Zone episode….”I think I’ll give the electric chair a try…”

    • Gordon;

      Is it wise to throw pebbles at the guy with his finger on the nuclear button? Last I heard, you are not Superman. JDA

      • Hi JD I have a great solution to.All nine clues in line up one two three and so on.I don’t like to brag on it there are people here that have been here a lot longer then me. Some people keep throwing it in other people face! Kinda like when you were little kids the rich kid says I got ice cream you don’t and so on

        • Congratulations Clint. I hope that your solution is THE solution, and that you find the treasure. I am sure that you are excited, and can not wait until spring – me too. Again, good luck. JDA

  62. I am friends with a 1st cousin of the real Gordon Lightfoot. He looks allot like Gordon at the same younger age. He doesn’t have much to do with Gordon except for family reunions. My friend is a really nice fella -rock solid person. He lives far from me and I haven’t seen or spoke to him this past year. This reminds me I should .

  63. Who was that person that claimed to have solved the poem in 5 months, but doesn’t have the chest? I can’t locate the post here.

  64. In case anyone is interested. Gordon lightfoot got kicked off of CC because he was unable to play nice. He continually added one line at the very end of his comments with some kind of name calling or smart remark. That’s his MO. He claims to have solved the poem in five hours.

  65. I don’t mind sharing info or reading what’s on offer people’s minds, you know maybe together the right word will fit for one lucky person or that one word will trigger a rat race to the box, that would be fun. But for now no one has a clue, and the one’s that do have a clue they don’t know they do, funny. To whom it may concern, possible starting points, ” Hermit’s Peak in New Mexico, Warm Springs Montana, The Front Range of the Rockies where warm moist air gets halted. That’s all I have their are just too many places in the mountains that will fit. Have you noticed on every other line in the poem where the words rhymes , like, bold and old, there and where and ext. All except halt and walk, they really don’t go together, WHY, LOL . Just having fun

    • Maybe not Ken: Data from the Stormfax Almanac’s data shows that Phil’s six-week prognostications have been correct about 39 percent of the time.

      Phil does a shade poorer when you check his performance against actual weather outcomes since 1969, when the accuracy of weather records is less in question, said Tim Roche, a meteorologist at Weather Underground. From 1969 on, Phil’s overall accuracy rate drops to about 36 percent.

      Time to fire up the truck and hit the road. 🙂

      • That’s what I like about you Goofy…you bring things right back to reality…and you are always ready to hit the road at the drop of a hat ! ME TOO !

      • I rely on Powderchasers.com in the winter. Powderchaser Steve is right about 90% of the time, a week or so in advance. Gotta be when you are chasing treasure in the form of freshies. But by all means, fire up the truck! The Tetons are gonna get it this week.

  66. I hardly see any posters on this blog that are searching in Colorado. Any searchers here looking in Colorado?

    • Look in “Searcher’s Discussions” – above Most Recent Comments”, and above “Latest Post” – you will find “Looking in CO” as a topic – go there. This thread is for those looking in Colorado – It may help you – JDA

  67. Sharing the elixir of that solitude is one of Redford’s greatest pleasures, as a host, an arts patron, and a father. Years ago, when his children were growing up, he encouraged them to go into the mountains for a day alone. They were allowed to take a sandwich, but nothing to read or to play with. His challenge to them was that of a treasure hunt, and the treasure was a sense of connection—through the wilderness—with themselves. “It was a challenge,” Redford explains, “that was part of every young Indian’s initiation into his culture.”
    Redford has studied Native American culture most of his life, and an Indian blessing opens each summer session of the Sundance Institute. “The Indians have a sense of balance—a sense of awe, humor and scale in relation to nature—that we lack,” he says.

    • W O W – even if I found the treasure, I could only make a down payment. Sure would be nice to own it though. JDA

      • Never stop dreaming JDA.

        As for me, this girl is dreaming big! Stunning indeed. If I close my eyes, I’m there.

    • Thank you for the link, randawg. The gallery truly is an absolutely beautiful place. I can imagine Mr. Fenn and his staff attending to customers through each room. Such memories must continue through his thoughts of what he has accomplished. I would believe he can still smell the fresh paint from the artists’ works.

    • It’s all about buying low & selling high in that business.
      9-10 mil with a waterfall or 2 & throw in some gators.

      • Does anyone remember Forrest mentioning that he had an apple orchard?
        I wonder what kind of apples he grew.

        • See eaglesabound,
          Your thinking apples & the answer is oranges.

          Pineapples are great to.

          • Jake,
            I’m glad you think you know the answers, or even why I’m asking the question.

          • I don’t know “the answers” but I do know some of the answers.
            Details are key.

          • Hi pdenver,
            Yes, it was in the realtors write up of the property. The orchard was replaced with something , I can’t remember what. Maybe it was a pond or garden.?

    • Absolutely beautiful! What a magical place! Then you see the property tax bill and you quickly say…”Know any good Realtors?”

      • One who can afford the property wouldn’t have to quickly ask, ” Know any good reeltor.”

          • No, I was quickly typing and looked over to see the score on the basketball game my family and I are watching and quickly pressed the send button and didn’t see my error until it was too late.

  68. If you think you have it all figured out as many in the passing time.
    Just think before your next trip to seek & realize you may be wrong.

    If you do not know what’s going on in his mind,
    You may be blind.

    Figure out the man before you try & figure out the poem.
    That’s how I look at the whole picture.

        • Hey, I don’t even know what’s going on in
          My mind most of the time, let alone someone else’s mind. LOL


        • I believe that you need to get into a persons mind to solve a problem whatever that may be to solve it.

          I think if you are not able to see things how they see things, you will not be able to solve the mystery.

          It’s a logical thought to get inside their mind first, before going any further.

          “My 86 years of experiences have filled my mind with many things I would like to do. There is so much to be learned by failing, and I may be the world’s leading authority on that subject.”

          Sometimes failure is the only way to know.

          • Jake,

            I never fail! I’m just really good at finding out what doesn’t work!


          • Kanafire,
            We all fail at something or another.
            For you to say you never fail is showing me your cards & throw them in the muck at times.

            You may be the 1st person on earth that stated ” I never fail! ” and doesn’t recognize failure or how to use it & accept it because without failure, there is no way of judging success.

            Failure & success go hand in hand & you cannot know one without the other.

          • jeez, lighten up Oscar

            my hyperbolic humour may fail miserably, but Kanafire has it spot on imho

            oh, and don’t forget to wash your rusty hat before spring springs – you may thank me later 🙂

    • LOL, what if the clues don’t have anything to do with fenn? Oh sure, he started the challenge, wrote the poem, hide the chest, told us to find his special spot… but are the clues about him at all?

      If you were to right a poem that would lead to a specific location and had the thought in mind that hundreds if not thousands of years down the road it could be located… would the clues be about you?

      • Well Seeker,
        Here goes the crème de la crème.
        Yous said: “LOL, what if the clues don’t have anything to do with fenn?”

        I will eat my hat & barf it out & the crap on it, and eat it again if any of the clues don’t have anything to do with F.

        Are u keeping track?
        I am.

        What will u do if the clues are associated with F?

        All I see is typing & no action.

        • You really seem to full of crap Jake, you talk about it a lot. Maybe try and use that intelligent wit you claim, and explain why the “clues” are about fenn instead of just saying it…

          What do we know as facts… very subtle hints in the book can help with the clues if you can recognized them. Look at maps / GE. A comprehensive knowledge of geography might help… Explain why you think the clue are about Forrest Fenn and not about what the author of the poem implied as useful tools and information?

        • Geewiz Jake, what an afwul thought to throw out into the energy of the world. that poor hat, such abuse..

        • I agree with you entirely, sally2fleming

          if there’s no current political law against ‘barfing and pooing’ on an innocent hat for little reason, then I’m quite sure that there will be soon.
          – and Jake will be locked-up forever, with Bretts mate (wats-his-name)

          ..oh joy!! 🙂

          • I hope he has a beautiful day today, some sunshine mite help and a little pepto bismol..

        • Jake;

          If you keep talking this BS, I will be inclined to double our bet again, and you certainly would not want to do that….you don’t have the stomach for it. JDA

    • Jake, good advise, how many of his books do you have.. I believe he has written 10, not sure though..

  69. pdenver,

    Thanks! I’m going to sign off for now. I live in Hooterville and I have to climb a pole to have a signal and it’s getting cold.


  70. Look quickey down your quest to c|ease|
    (in other words your effort becomes effortless if you look quickly down)

    I can keyp my secret where?
    A key without a lock isn’t worth much?

    Sew why is it that I must go and l/eave\
    Eave – edge

    When your in a pickle you go around to the backside?

    I knew exactly where to hide the chest so it would be difficult to find but not impossible. (It’s in the rock)y mountains somewhere north of Santa Fe. Indecision is the key to flexibility and that’s why I waited so long to secret my cache.

    In the rock Roc(key)

    Go in piece —> b lock

    With my treasures bold (boulder Colorado)

    My theory
    Somewhere in a rock wall dry and safe is the treasure chest. Opinion only!

    *everything is on hold until 200ft comment is explained*

    • Some interesting and creative interpretations there, Emily. Congrats. 🙂

      Just don’t be surprised if someone yells back at you … you’re messing with the poem you’re messing with the poem you’re messing with the poem you’re messing with the poem…. the most annoying admonition of the entire chase, an admonition that strangles creativity and imagination; and forces searchers into a rigid, binding literal straight-jacket interpretation.

      Ken (in Texas)

      • Ken,
        You bring up a good question… although you may not have noticed it. Can sound a like words help? A poem uses rhyming wording that are sometime spelled closely ex. cease and peace. Can sound a like words ~ ‘ease’ to mean gradually, guide, inch, maneuver, and cease as end or finalize…
        Now add, tarry scant as to linger and as a small point, to gaze at, are we to look quickly[ a short amount of time] for the quest to cease? where as c/eace becomes a movement to guide us. If we use quickly as quick step or 120 paces [ approx 360′]… the stanza seems to imply; at the point of the blaze, observe something and move along that point to located the chest.
        So would changing/understanding “quickly” to “quick” be messing with the poem as well?

        I mean if “warm” waters can mean “hot” springs, are we not changing the word warm as temperature and the temperature itself? If we take Canyon as canon [ˈkanən].. one meaning is a standard to judge something… are we to judge distance from where warm water[s] halt down the canyon[‘kanyən] not far?

        I don’t know… all I recall is we need to analiyze a poem. So in analyzing [ lets say in regards to finding numbers… is 98 out of the question? or 120 pace or yards? Does a clue give only a single answer or a single usage? Just for fun… wwwh to be 98 degrees as the comfortable temp. to all people [ the temp. of the human body ][halt to mean stop or upon death the body decreases in temp.] can 98 be used later in a solution to locate the chest?

        creative/imagination or over complicating??? All I recall is we need to use all the ingredients for our desired outcome. One of the reasons I dislike the stomping direction mode. That doesn’t “combined” the ingredients.

        Just thoughts ……..

        • Well Seeker, if one can’t “tarry scant with marvel gaze”, you might as well be dead…..according to this guy:

          “He who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead; his eyes are closed.”…..Albert Einstein

          (some folks say the funniest things, no?) 🙂

  71. So you’re down 28 – 3 and don’t have a chance.

    Think again,

    I would suggest getting inside that persons head & start thinking like them.

    You are better suited to adjust & know what you need to do & don’t worry about the jesters in the court.

    The one knows it all.

    There are some things that speak volumes.

    There is no chance for sidewinders.

    • Lug,
      Your comment didn’t make it to the podium.

      My point is sharp in my mind but dull in others.

      When the chips are down & you think you don’t have a chance, maybe you shouldn’t be playing the game.

      Most here including yourself offer advice on hope to succeed although no one has gotten closer than 200′ according to F.

      “It seems like the longer one thinks about the search the more they complicate the problem.”

      You are getting close & have good thoughts, but you will need to settle down on the right area on a map to have a chance.

      ” I would advise new searchers to look for the clues in my poem and try to marry them to a place on a map. ”

      I think F only mentioned 1 map in his books & burned it to get warm.

      • I get the sense that you have made either a transition in thought or a certain discovery Jake. Am I reading you correctly?

        • It’s all about reading people imajin,
          Especially F.

          You are reading me correctly & you know I know now but most wont get this.

          I am able to transition from the A to the Z & matter & antimatter according to what’s needed.
          Most folks don’t go there.

          Throw in the right amount of imagination without the things that don’t make sense & we have a nice….

          You have gift most don’t.

          • Welcome to the dark side 😉 I would say you are right, most people don’t (and will never) go there.

            Instead, too many sit here and vilify others instead of opening their minds to what might be staring back at them.

          • The dark side is seldom seen by most & needs to be seen in order to see the man.

            Although he is a good man & has seen & experienced many good & bad things in his life as most, he has made the best from the bad.

            There is a dark side to all of us & that is a fact of life.

  72. Off-topic and specifically for Dal: there was a significant fireball early this morning over Lake Michigan (but ~almost~ over Wisconsin). The fall occurred at 1:25:17 am CST, had over a hundred witnesses (despite the hour), generated sonic booms, and produced thousands of meteorites. These meteorites are currently at the bottom of Lake Michigan — but some are close enough to shore that they may “only” be in 200 feet of water. A ship dragging a powerful magnet on a long enough cable could probably recover some of them.

    I can contact you offline with the precise location if such an endeavor sounds like it might be in your wheelhouse. (I have the signatures of falling rocks on three separate Doppler radars.) A successful recovery would be a first in meteoritics.

    • Zap –

      I am glad you brought this up as i was going to. What we saw here last night was something blaze across the sky with red and green lights. It was truly spectacular.

      I known you are a research nut. If you want to get into it. Meteors and meteorites as blazes her is a list of all know locations.


      As far as a recovery goes each state has different rules but the general rule is the owner of the land is the owner of the meteorite.

      Here is a link to the new rules on public land. 2012


    • Hi Lugnutz – the possession rules for salvage of meteorites from the bottom of Lake Michigan are an as-yet untested area of the law. (grin) However, a portion of this fall did actually end up over dry land in Wisconsin.

      I’ve recovered over 100 meteorites from California, Nevada, Arizona and Texas, and have guided the recovery of recent falls in Wisconsin (Mifflin), Florida (Osceola), Canada (Grimsby), Alabama and others. I probably won’t travel to this one immediately — unless it turns out to be a rare meteorite type, though that is unlikely based on its strong radar signature. I thought it would be an interesting marriage of my skills and Dal’s to pull off a Great Lake recovery, but independent of that I’m confident that dry space rocks will be found for this fall in relatively short order.

      • Zap –

        I did not know you are a meteor/meteorite hunter.

        Have you looked at all the locations for meteorites in the 4 states? Have you been through all that in pursuit of the blaze?

        Do you at all like the idea that blaze is related to a meteorite?


      • Hi Lugnutz – the idea of using a known meteorite recovery location — especially a witnessed fall — as a “blaze” is certainly a much better idea than most of the blazes I’ve heard suggested. Of the four states, Colorado has the most witnessed falls (6) followed by New Mexico (4), while Wyoming has only one and Montana has none. But personally I don’t think Forrest went this route — it would require very specialized knowledge not found in either the poem or TTOTC.

        • Zap –

          I was thinking about a bunch of stuff including visiting a meteorite on display. Perhaps there is an image of the meteor with the display. I have a few solves or ideas like this where the whole search takes place in a confined area like Los Alamos Lab or a university.

          Also we talk about water falls so why not meteorite falls?


      • Zap, Have you ever looked for a Glorieta Mountain Meteorite ?
        Glorieta mtn is not far from Santa Fe..

        • Hi Sally: Glorieta is a beautiful meteorite, so I’m disappointed that I haven’t yet made the time to go dig up some despite many invitations to do so. I know many of the experts who have made some impressive finds there. I’m primarily a surface meteorite finder, by sight, whereas Glorieta is almost exclusively buried (I.e. metal detectors).

          • Hi Zap. I was in the Santa fe area about 5 years ago for 2 months, went out there selling Quartz crystals as a vendor, anyway I heard about the glorieta meteorite, bought a metal detector from a local salesman, he took me out to a spot close to glorieta to show me how to use the metal detector, i found a n old ring, and spotted a neat arrowhead in a dry gulch i was following.
            I tried by myself up some service road where you could collect wood, but i got a little nerveous being a woman and being in there alone.so i didnt go as often as i would have liked to.

          • Zap-
            Always wanted to find a chunk of space…never have…But the idea fascinates me…so Zap…you can tell what meteorite a chunk came from? Do they have different mineral signatures?

          • Hi Dal — being a successful treasure hunter, I know you would enjoy searching for meteorites. As with any endeavor, there is a learning curve for recognizing what you’re looking for. Fresh meteorite falls with their black fusion crusts are a lot easier to recognize than older meteorites that have been weathering on the ground for centuries or millennia and thus start to blend in with terrestrial rocks.

            “…so Zap…you can tell what meteorite a chunk came from? Do they have different mineral signatures?”

            If I understand your question correctly, you’re wondering if it’s possible to tie a particular meteorite to its original parent body in space? If so, then the answer is generally no, with a few notable exceptions. There is a class of meteorites called howardites, eucrites and diogenites — HED for short. With a high degree of confidence, these meteorites have been identified as having come from the minor planet (asteroid) Vesta. HED meteorites are quite rare compared to ordinary chondrites (over 85% of meteorite falls).

            The only other meteorite types with known parent bodies are martian meteorites and lunar meteorites. The rest of the proposed pairings (e.g. H-chondrites from asteroid Hebe) are really just speculative.

  73. Looks like some of the snow is melting in YSNP, Spring on is the way, but don’t get in too big of a hurry! Stay safe and good luck to all

  74. Well…Punxsutawney Phil has been correct here in the Northeast. Biggest storm of the season and now below zero. More white stuff coming !

    • Well over a foot of the white stuff last couple of days with another foot or so tomorrow. Me and my plow have been BUSY…but I still have time to think about Fenn’s treasure while bombing around like a kid in a play ground….

      • when you say “a foot of the white stuff”, why does the impression of a 70’s Hollywood movie producer suddenly spring to my mind?

        hmmm… I worry about you Ken 🙂

        • CH, you just had me snorting all over the breakfast table!

          (Boy, do I feel good now – never knew those Wheaties had it in ’em!)

        • well, your breakfast ‘preferences’ would go a long way in explaining that Michelin-man dive-suit at 5000+ ft above sea level..

          hmmm… I worry about you (too) voxpops

        • THOSE were the days! I remember many a tall snow bank….but no…this was one of those real winter blizzards…dang.

        • sure thing Ken ..whatever

          (save the excuses for your parole officer – we all tryin’ to talk ’bout serious treasure stuff here)

          tsk tsk!

  75. Hi All — trying to post about Suzanne Somers’ and Alan Hamel’s place in Palm Springs, but three attempts have failed. Suspect this will fail as well.

    • Apparently the problem is with a long post (something I’ve experienced with this blog before). I’ll break it into shorter bits. I wanted to put this under SB 56 where it would have been more relevant, but I can’t get anything to post there. In today’s (February 11, 2017) L.A. Times real estate section, Suzanne and Alan have put their Palm Springs place back on the market. Here’s the opening paragraph of the listing:

      “Actress-entrepreneur Suzanne Somers and her husband, producer Alan Hamel, have put their European-inspired retreat in the hills of Palm Springs back on the market for $14.5 million.”

    • “Owned by the couple since 1977, the 70-acre estate sits among boulders and native outcrops and is reached by a private funicular railway system.”

      “The estate includes eight bedrooms, nine full bathrooms and two half bathrooms spread across various structures, among them a stacked-stone house designed by architect Albert Frey that rests against the hillside.”

    • Zaphoid

      have you been watching ‘three’s company’ once (or twice) too often?

      (RIP John Ritter)

      • Hi CH — my full, original post ultimately went through on SB 56, quite some time after I posted the two seemingly failed attempts, so go figure. I think both Suzanne and her husband both look terrific for their respective ages, don’t you? And I find myself wondering where they’ll call home if/when they sell their fabulous Palm Springs digs. Maybe the want to move to Santa Fe to be closer to Fenn’s “digs.”

      • Zapster – gotcha (re: SB56)

        ..and anyone who doesn’t (still) have a secret crush on Suzanne Somers must be crazy, imho

        although, I have to wonder ..did Dal secretly attempt a midnight-mission to Suzanne’s fav bath-tub (pictured) in search of WWWH? 🙂

    • Thank you for the link, SL. The home and property looks absolutely breathtaking. I wonder if Mr. Fenn sees his Fechin painting in the photos.

      • pdenver,

        Breathtaking indeed, my friend!

        It’s possible that The Flyer as seen it among others; as I recall reading that he was once flown to PSP by his wonderful Grandson, in order to attend her birthday.

        Quite special.


        • Yes, I do recall the story, but do not recall where I read it. I believe it’s the same story with Elton John. He and his grandson have a wonderful bond and it puts a smile on my face.

      • pdenver
        ” breathtaking ” is what happens when the mailman brings your property tax bill for that 14 million dollar abode.

  76. Curious, anyone remember a date when Forrest first spoke about bringing a pastrami sandwich?

  77. Hello everyone at House of Dal! I just wanted to drop a quick note to say how much I appreciate all of the contributors to this blog. I’ve been pretty much a daily lurker here since I happened to catch the CBS Sunday Morning story on the Fenn Treasure in July 2015. Since then I’ve made a lengthy trip out to search in April 2016 and have reservations for another trip this May. I’ve spent so many fun hours reading the blog, studying maps, and googling like a mad man to generate search ideas based nearly entirely on the thoughts and opinions of people on this blog. I’m so impressed with the free sharing that happens here. There are some very active deep, determined, and quick thinkers here – JDA, Jake, Seeker, and Tim are a few I really like keeping tabs on. I hardly ever understand a thing Jamie Jones says without an internet search (or ten), but always seem to learn something new nonetheless. Dal and Goofy, keep on rocking and fighting the good fight. Anyway, thanks again and happy hunting – it’s gonna be time get back In The Wood real soon.

      • LOL!! You too. I have turned into a closet chaser of sorts. The eye rolls were getting to me.

    • FarClimber,
      LOL You listen to me?! Even I don’t listen to me… and I don’t have a choice not to.
      I get all my ideas, thoughts, and confidence from my magic eight ball. Unfortunately, it only replies; try again later. [ I think it’s broken ]. Although, ya gave me a chuckle at the small list of names you presented… lol… none of us have remotely the same thoughts. I guess that’s a good thing, you get a variety of ideas to bounce off your own.

      Hey Loco, did ya noticed you didn’t make the top five… just saying. hehe!

      Far climber ~C’mon out of lurking and join the party… oh! ps. newbies by the first round… Just curious, where to you hail from?

      • Seeker,

        That’s the great thing about The Chase – until someone finds the chest all of our ideas are valid and in play, as different as they may be. How fun is that?!

        I hail from Florida, but grew up exploring the mountains of New England. For me The Chase has been a convenient and long overdue excuse to explore the Rockies.

          • Thanks, Rick. I’m searching first in Montana and Wyoming, but then moving south through Colorado and eventually into New Mexico. I figure I should be able to complete a thorough boots on the ground search of the highlighted map areas in 8.25 x 10^9 lifetimes.

          • FarClimber ~ ” I figure I should be able to complete a thorough boots on the ground search of the highlighted map areas in 8.25 x 10^9 lifetimes.”

            Now there’s a man with a plan!

            New England stomping in the olden days myself.

        • You have my sympathy wordpunisher,
          Maybe if you take bits & pieces from all our thoughts & add them to your own, you will achieve the ultimate.

          “I hail from Florida, but grew up exploring the mountains of New England”
          Same here in Port Saint Lucie otherwise known as The Treasure Coast.
          Appalachian trails & off trail is where I wanna be.

          • Ha! I express thanks for the free ideas and in return you extend sympathy for only god knows what. A twisted, sick bunch indeed!

          • FarClimber

            a murder of crows
            a parliament of owls
            a skulk of foxes
            or a knot of frogs?
            ..but I never heard of a ‘bunch of Jakes’

            now THERE is a scary thought!

          • I guess you will not like my clones curious hobbit.

            That’s even scarier.

            Speaking of Crows, do you see a Indian connection or is what you had for dinner?

          • I faintly recollect a horror movie in the 80’s about your clones Jake – they had pointy ears, sharp teeth, just add water and they multiply (?)

            I see no Indian connection apart from ‘brave’, and suspect the poem is straight forward and free of any potential complications

          • Are you talking about Multiplicity?
            I thought that was a good comedy.

            I see “brave” as a slight indication to reference for a warrior.
            Indian or not.

            Sea Monkeys?

          • Multiplicity? ..umm, no.

            yeah, I sorta got that impression too, and considered ‘brave and in the wood’ may refer to a forested area named after an historical Indian Chief or tribe (?)

            (only one monkey that i sea here – and it ain’t me 🙂 )

          • Jake you live in PSL? Spent lots of time there myself when going through the PGA program. Still have my Duffy’s rewards card! I think part of soul is still at that place..

          • Yes imajin,
            I live in PGA. It’s Perfect.

            Great area to live & I will look for your soul.
            Duffy’s is a great sports bar & bowl around.

      • LOL!! I saw that, ain’t it wonderful????

        It’s not where one actually ranks, but where one makes them think that one ranks! 🙂

        “not far, but too far to walk”…..”so near and yet so far”
        —-something that you say which means that you have almost achieved something but that what you still have to do in order to achieve it is very difficult or impossible (or maybe just untouchable??)—

        You’re quite correct Jakester, “wasted time and talent”…..dang it, wisht I wuz as sharp as yuse gize! 🙂

          • ‘It’s not where one actually ranks, but where one makes them think that one ranks! ‘

            Ha! lol. Does than mean Jake ‘ranks’ right up there with his scented hat?

            I couldn’t resist… my bad.

          • Yes the hat is scented up but I prefer seasoned Seeker.

            I don’t see anyone else throwing their hat into certain rings.

            Do you think F might have twisted a few of his clues?
            Maybe not as straight forward as I thought.

          • Honestly Jake…
            I think it’s more in lines with, he has ‘said things people think are clues.’ comment.

            We can debate 9 lines vs. 9 sentences all day, but here’s a WhatIF… A hint helps with the clues, a “clue” lead to the chest. So, are some of what we think are clues simply a hint in the poem to help the clue along?

            “Put in below the hoB…from “there” it’s…” Add in the thought, if you knew what hoB is, you’d go right to the chest. It could be possible that at hoB we view what is not for the meek.
            Fear of heights? and overlook..?
            The the lines are followed by; “the end is ever drawing nigh” maybe to mean nigh as near, and the chest is near this overlook?

            Point being; does every thought or line have to be a “place”? We have been told the poem contains 9 clues, do we need 9 places?
            I mean, if in the wood is a “place” and many start with wwn clue one, canyon down clue etc. What’s the point in adding “IN the wood”? some may say it relates to an earlier clue or just being in the forest…Or what about cold or brave not being clues… What if they are? Somewhere above can’t be a clue in those favorite 9 lines many enjoy, Right?

            Maybe they are helpful hints, but we think they are clues and force them to be a “place”

            This is one of the reasons I have study the after the fact comment, especially, the first two clues comments. It would be a hoot if we the searcher didn’t need to go down a canyon… maybe if just simply the water[s]

            Maybe every thing we need to know is all in one very small location… So, what about nfbtftw? hmmm a short distance below, But like Loco said; so near and yet so far…and… all that is, is an overlook?!
            It begs the question…are all the supposed clues, clues? or maybe hints? or even, just comformation of the very small location of hoB and wwh?

            Just more thoughts and analyzing, and attempting to read the poem through what fenn sees and intended. Hopefully having that certainty beforehand feeling.

          • Seeker,
            I am not sure about overlook or any place where someone could slip & fall down a tretorous end.

            From “there” it’s no place for the meek,
            Where is “there”?
            Where you came from or where you need to go?

          • Mustang,
            That’s a broad statement…
            Who’s lives and when?
            Our lives;
            During fenn’s 80 plus years?
            Human existence in north America?
            US history?
            World wide?

          • Meek and creek. Not sure, it’s not brought me any closer that I can tell, IMHO, it’s about life awAy from this special spot, much like ff describes in Flywater when summer was coming to an end

          • Jake,
            Why does it have to be a place where someone could slip and fall?
            A good example is the Grand Canyon..actually both “grand canyons” millions of people visit both each year. I dont here the parks saying don’t come and see the views…
            Seriously, I some times wonder if ya’ll want your trails to be child proof!
            But whatIF the falls have a viewing station?
            The “there” you mentioned has a lead in… from hoB[there]…

            The better question in my eyes would be, is take it in; as a view, and put in as the same, and “FROM there” [hob] is where it’s all seen or viewed ‘from’. So hoB maybe the place you put in from… but who says it [hoB] is below or in the canyon?

            Does that not give waters as a location? Canyon as a location, but viewed from the same point? Does hoB have to be some imaginary distance away or is it simply saying not far to see, but too far to bother walking down because we may not have too? So, the meek is the overlook in this scenario…

            Of course this wouldn’t work if you want to force a “different place” to be in every line. That to me is the problem with 9 lines for 9 clues… it forces everything to be an individual place while force those places to be apart…hence forcing the idea of the stomping out each clue is a must to do.

            The same can be said for nfbtftw as a distance in the book tftw. If that was a needed piece of information why wasn’t it in the original book present years prior?

            So many things are not adding up… searchers with the first two clues, because they told fenn where they were and their process, walked past all the clues and the chest… Maybe why, little Indy or others can not get closer… because they are there, very nigh to the end.

    • No worries Climber. I usually know what I mean… but rarely understand half of my attempts at articulation myself. I do try though.

      Ain’t no rest fo’ the wicked.

  78. Reading a layman’s explanation of quantum physics, I was struck by this passage as a metaphor for how to solve the clues:

    “In physics, as elsewhere, those who most have felt the exhilaration of the creative process are those who best have slipped the bonds of the known to venture far into the unexplored territory which lies beyond the barrier of the obvious. This type of person has two characteristics. The first is a childlike ability to see the world as it is, and not as it appears according to what we know about it. This is the moral of the (child’s?) tale, “The Emperor’s New Clothes.” When the emperor rode naked through the streets, only a child proclaimed him to be without clothes, while the rest of his subjects forced themselves to believe, because they had been told so, that he wore his finest new clothing.”

    Zukav, Gary. The Dancing Wu Li Masters: An Overview of the New Physics (Kindle Locations 2042-2047). HarperCollins. Kindle Edition.

    • Hi Vox – I read Zukav’s The Dancing Wu Li Masters about 30 years ago — it’s been a long, long time since I’ve heard someone mention that book! I agree there are some connections that are applicable to successful puzzle-solving. For Fenn’s poem, I don’t think it’s a child-like innocence that is required, so much as an ability to table preconceptions about what most assume a poem could or should be. Like other forms of prose, a poem at its heart is a vehicle for conveying information. A clever designer can provide that information in a multi-layered way.

      • Exactly, Zap! It’s our preconceptions and learned responses that get in the way. A child has a much more open mind.

    • Hi Vox and Zap, funny you mention this book, about a week ago while researching stuff I thought might be related to SB 166 I stumbled into this on wikipedia:

      Quantum mechanics[edit]
      Weeping Angels are described as quantum-locked entities that do not exist if one attempts to observe them. Observation also plays an important role in the theory of quantum mechanics (see Schrödinger’s cat). Bell’s theorem is a no-go theorem of quantum mechanics that concerns the existence or non-existence local hidden variables. It can be argued that hidden variables do not exist until they are observed.[11]

      My mom had tried to get me to read the book you mention back in the 70’s I think, it was over my head at the time….

      • So is FF constantly watching the chest to stop it quantum tunneling its way under the Rockies? More likely the treasure only exists as a probability wave until we observe it. Weird stuff!

    • Vox,
      You quoted, “When the emperor rode naked through the streets, only a child proclaimed him to be without clothes, while the rest of his subjects forced themselves to believe, because they had been told so, that he wore his finest new clothing.”

      This is a great fable and one that, generally speaking, embodies our current education system from start to finish, IMO. Perhaps we only begin to ‘learn’ once we’ve completed the process of being ‘taught’, one process considered active and the other passive.

      This sub-thread, IMO, epitomizes the mindset a searcher must attain to have any chance of success, and I use ‘attain’ because it implies effort. Below, you wrote:

      “It’s our preconceptions and learned responses that get in the way. A child has a much more open mind.”

      I agree with this theory, so how do we retain openmindedness as we age? IMO, whether a mind is open or closed to a particular event, topic, discussion, or principle depends entirely on the choice made by the host. There is ALWAYS choice, and the state of a person’s mind is no exception, IMO. The challenge for unchildlike minds (by age and experience) is, IMO, returning the mind to a childlike state by developing an ability to purge or ignore what’s been taught, at least temporarily, and to accept that the learning process is a lifelong venture.

      Just some thoughts and opinion – forgive me for rambling.

      • Joe, thanks for the really thought-provoking post. We seem to be losing the art of free and clear thinking as a society. That’s one of the reasons I think this chase is so valuable – helping us (re)learn both to focus and open ourselves to new thoughts and ideas at the same time.

        • Vox,
          Yes, some recent events are very discouraging to watch or read about, but it’s also very encouraging that they’re being addressed. Some of the issues, IMO, have been festering for decades.

          You mentioned “new thoughts and ideas”, and here’s one that appeared (finally!) in my head a while back: hypophora.

          It’s an uncommon and seldom used word, but, for anyone interested, a good place to start is wikipedia. Does it have anything to do with The Chase? I don’t know, but I try to keep an open mind. : )


        • It could be argued that societies across the globe are more adept at free and clear thinking now that fact checking and information is so widely and quickly available. Who knows, but as bad as it may seem now, critical thinking or the at least the blind acceptance of general narratives may have been worse in previous times.

  79. Speaking of dams…how about the Lake Oroville dam in Cali. ! 200k are being evacuated for possible spillway failure…and the 200foot hole in it! Yikes…!

  80. WISE CRACKS , Forrest loves those, how many all together has he said, ” Two can keep a secret, as long as one is dead”. “If you stop at a banana tree , pick all the bananas “.

  81. Well, My good friends here on the blog. A bit of bad news as far as I am concerned.

    A small family crisis has come up, and I will have to stay away from the blog for a few weeks or so. I will still read them, as I can, but this family matter will be taking up a lot of my time, so I will not be posting for a while.

    The family matter is not serious, but it will be time consuming.

    Yes, I am still in the chase, and can not wait for spring to arrive.

    Take care, and TRY to STAY SAFE JDA

    • My prayers are with you and your family JDA… see ya in a few weeks… take care my friend … until next time..see ya

    • Sorry to hear this JDA.
      There’s a shoulder and ear here if you should need either one.
      Take care

    • Keep a notepad and pen in a pocket–getting away from the blog and not thinking thinking thinking about the chase may let an idea surface that had been suppressed by too much conscious focus

      I hope all resolves well, Joseph

    • Does this mean Dal’s site will load faster?
      Family crisis, what are those, I must be from another planet….

    • Evening JDA,

      Sorry for the late response but I just came up for air after “surfing” all day long. I use the evening to catch-up on the HOD.

      Glad to hear it’s not serious, nevertheless, my thoughts and prayers are with you and your family. Hang in there and by means, be safe.

      Take care………

  82. Hi All;

    I would love to be able to thank all of you well-wishers individually, but I just don’t have the time – – So let me send out one big hug to all of you that have wished me and my family good fortune. I will be back as soon as I can

    Take care, Good Luck and TRY to STAY SAFE JDA

  83. Hi All.
    Just a quick note. IMHO you need to solve all the anagrams in the poem and find the six places that are mentioned. Once you find these the location of the chest will become obvious. Mr Fenn has also included another ingenious way to locate the chest which involves a circle, hence his comments about going around in circles. There are also very subtle hints in the book which point to things located near the search area.
    Once again, this is my opinion from what I have found in my research.

    • John,
      Interesting that you say “find six places that are mentioned”
      Is that just a head count of the “places”, or are you thinking the places are descriptions or named? And/or do you think some clues are not places?
      You also mentioned: “Once you find these the location of the chest will become obvious.”
      Do you think the six place lead to the chest or are there other places you still are working on to get to the chest? “obvious” sounds like the six places is all one needs.
      And; “Fenn has also included another ingenious way to locate the chest which involves a circle, hence his comments about going around in circles.” I think he sated talking in circle, but maybe he meant ‘going around in circles’ idk.
      Can you elaborate?
      Yet this comment of yours here always has me wondering [others have stated similar comments]
      “There are also very subtle hints in the book which point to things located near the search area.” … in your opinion, are there ‘hints’ in the book for each clue, or each place any clue, may refer to? I have speculated that there might just be a couple clues in the book that would simply get us started… maybe a place to start or what the first clue refers to. However, I’m not sure if there’s a ‘hint’ for all the clues.
      Think of it like this… if fenn gave a hint for all the clues, all we really need to do is match those hints to clues with no real journey of exploring or challenge in the field. Maybe, the only hints to clues just get us started and we need to figure out the rest on are own with what is there to be seen.

      It’s difficult to give thoughts and feed-back without knowing what your thoughts are or an explanation of your thought process.

      • John—“IMHO you need to solve all the anagrams…”
        Seeker —“It’s difficult to give thoughts and….”

        Better head back to the drawing-board boys, imo ANAGRAMS are a lost cause.

        • 9clues,
          Agree ~ no anagrams… my post was asking about the number of clues John talked about, and a few other things.
          I looked into the possibility of anagrams many moons ago, but never put a lot of hope in them. Fenn’s statement; “…I looked up words and definition of words and changed them…” seems to imply changing spelling of a word or words might not be the way to go ~ example; if the poem used the word dog and we changed it to God, for me that is paramount to messing with the poem.

      • Seeker, one of your solves has coordinates I think, the book has a line, environmentalists to some degree. I know you don’t do the alpha/numeric thing, but, environmentalists=44. 44 2 sum=46, 46 degrees. A hint in the text of where to start.

        Or, nothing at all, lol. Pg. 58 pic has a 46* if you could find it.(Skippy’s leg and shadow).

        For me, lines 5 and 6 say begin with 4 and 6. Your medicine wheel points the way.

        I reserve the right to be totally wrong and confused…

        • Hey Charlie,
          In that theory the numbers match the capital letters in each line. A = 1 as to A B C, 1 2 3. So, there are 5 capital A’s in the beginning of each line in the of 24 lines. B is the second letter in the alphabet, and there are 2 B’s… or 52… and so on.
          The reason I like this at the time, it was elementary in use, and a place/location to start. Although that is not how I got to the location to being with…

          It could be that, need to know where to start, and that location is where the clues are at. The question now would be… is “A” to be the comment, need to start at the beginning or is it a clue?

    • Alright– Now a good research and methodology tool is needed to find those anagrams. How do you know there are (6) of them? Please clarify. Another poster, Brian Margana, also suggested that anagrams might be important. I’ve often wondered if Brian was right. Six huh?

        • Jdiggins—

          Yes, Margana = Anagram. I was just kidding. Please note what starts my post:
          “Alright—-now a good research and methodology…”. It is an acrostic that spells “anagram”. Aren’t words fun? 🙂

      • Hi Sparrow. I didnt say that there were only 6 anagrams, nearly every line in the poem is an anagram. There are 6 PLACES named in the poem. These places are named on Google maps or any good atlas. Play canasta, Atlas can pay?
        When you have found the 6 places on the map, join the dots and the shape of the blaze is revealed along with the general location of the chest.
        I still need to figure out some of the anagrams.
        I cant divulge too many of the anagrams as it may give away too much. But heres one. Remember Mr Fenn saying that he felt like an archietect when he wrote the poem?
        Ok, The end is ever drawing nigh anagrams to:
        Have designed right winner. This uses all the letters. An archietect designs things.
        Interesting too that part of my solve involves having to go right and then the blaze is on the left when facing North, which is the definition of nigh.
        Coincidence? I think anagrams play a huge part in the Chase.
        I dont think you can get the anagrams any other way than sitting down and nutting them out.
        Good luck Sparrow.

        • John–

          I was actually kidding, but appreciate the explanation. I do have to say though John, Forrest said he took 15 years to “design” this “problem ” (I call it a ” problem ” because FF calls it that when responding to middle school kids).

          To take 15 years and come up with “have designed right winner” is a bit below the intelligence of Mr. Fenn I would say.nI mean no disrespect, but I would think Forrest can design better than that.

          I also don’t think”play canasta” is “Atlas can pay” but what do I know?

          Personally, I do believe that there is one sentence that is definitely an anagram, but I think many “designs” are at play in the poem at the same time, or even possibly stanza by stanza ( not necessarily in order either, but still in sequence).
          Good luck to you too John!

          • Hey Sparrow. Mr Fenn is surely intelligent. The anagram I gave you is one that is pretty general in nature. The others are too specific to my location.

          • John—-

            Understood. No one wants to give away specifics. I do believe anagrams are part of the poem— but I think we can get side-tracked if we see the whole poem as a series of anagrams though. All the best to you!

        • John R –

          The answer to the question that is posed daily on this blog is always yes.

          Is this a coincidence? Yes.

          What you are describing is the very definition of coincidence.

          This is my opinion.

        • Why wouldn’t the end is drawing ever nigh anagram to divine height rangers wend? Or any of the other thousands of possibilities. While i agree there are anagrams that may help, but example in book was butterfly = flutterby. They may lead you to the key or to thousands of other dead ends. Roll the dice or flip a coin.. Remember forrest likes to drop a letter and add a letter here or there tooo! Imo

    • Hi John R, After years of reading between the lines in TTOTC, I find there are many clever constructions for many known places in all four states. Take for instance, how bold it would be for Mr. Fenn to offer up the search region right in the first paragraph of the most appropriate place, the PREFACE? Do you see it? After all these years, I have come to believe there are not 6 subtle word-pictures that will lead you to the TC, though it is a pleasant projection, but many that lead eager seekers to exploration experiences. I think Fenn was having a great time writing in a duplicitous style just for the fun of it… Call it: Revenge of the Archeologist style.
      Oh, as for that first paragraph… a ‘dream’ is an enchantment, ‘stir’ is to go round in circles, and a ‘smile’ is an arc segment, like a rainbow. Does that help? Good luck, but no need to gas up the car yet.

      • Kia Ora OS2. Thanks for the info. I was wondering what the smile was in relation to. Smile arc.
        Good luck on your searching.

  84. John – imo I have six places that talks about in the poem but I have 3 places that you can with your necked eye which are – wwwh – canyon down – heavy loads – the rest that I cant see only on sattlite view are hob – the blaze and in the wood and only because they are large land formations imo to know where they are even with botg but that’s how my salve came out so its just an opinion

  85. I have heard over and over again, as I’m sure ya’ll have as well, searchers talking about a good map. While fenn did state those three words, it was in addition to “GE and/or a good map” and many post seem to neglect “and/or” ~ one or the other…
    In a Q&A fenn stated the “right map” which seems neglected in many post as well.
    So if we need/usable the right map, doesn’t it seem that GE would have that mapping program {the right map} at the date of the comment? [don’t have the date at the ready]. So what Kind of map are we looking?
    Land map?
    Sky map?
    Just to name a few…
    Are we to be looking at all maps or a particular type?
    And again, seemingly on GE.

  86. John R.
    Um…just a friendly observation here,
    F said, “NO ANAGRAMS” in his statement of feet, pounds, cyphers– ect. As much time as you’ve spent trying to anagram the poem, well, heck! Ya could of figured it out by now!
    Now, I admit, it is pretty cool, and I did get some anagrams myself before he said “not needed”, but it seems you are trying to manipulate the poem to fit your anagram hunger. Am I wrong? Could be. Am I being rude, most definitely not on purpose. Again, you are really smart, so it seems, I’ll give you a BIG helping hand on the puzzle…
    Read it a 1000 times, read the book then the poem, just like F said. So many of us try to fit the poem to our solves, I’m guilty. But, not any more, I’m a basic kind of girl now!
    See Ya in the funny pages!
    ¥Peace ¥

    • Just have a second or two – Donna, here is the quote you referenced. Where in the quote do you see “NO ANAGRAMS?

      “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.” f

      Just askin. JDA

    • Thanks Donna. But Mr Fenn did not rule out anagrams, see JDA’s post below. I solved several of the anagrams before finding the correct search area, so no, I didnt fit the anagrams to my search area.
      I think too many people are taking the poem literally. Finding WWWH then going down a canyon, NFBTFTW etc is not going to win the prize.
      All my opinion of course. What is your solve based on?

      • Look up the definition of “Anagram”. It is taking the letters, rearranging them to form other words.
        F said don’t mess with the poem.
        Anagrams started out as a code centuries ago and still considered a code.
        Nope, I don’t need them. I have my wwh, canyon, brown all ready to go. I was just trying to help. Maybe someone could ask F if they are considered fair game, but I wont!
        Good luck, have fun!

        • Donne;
          I agree, it is my opinion that anagrams are not required. My objection to your post was that you were saying that Forrest had said, “NO ANAGRAMS”, and that statement id not correct.

          You interpreted his words as meaning anagrams are not to be used, that is your opinion, not fact.

          Have a great day. JDA

  87. Usually we get quieter & more conservative when we get older.
    The cast has been broken.

    We wonder what wise writers words will win what we won’t.
    Wit will win.
    Waste will wreck.

  88. Wrinkled warlocks wrestle with wiry witches’ wriggling worms when winter winds wrest woefully westward whence woofing wolves wander wistfully.

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