Jenny Kile’s Questions…

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Jenny Kile is a self proclaimed puzzle enthusiast and has a wonderful blog called Mysterious Writings where folks write about the mysteries of the universe and Jenny poses questions to people with answers. Some of her blog is devoted to various puzzles and quests and treasure hunts. One section is devoted to The Thrill of the Chase and a subsection is called Questions With Fenn. Here, Forrest answers questions posed by her readers. Wonderful questions…sometimes mystifying answers.

Her blog is here: Questions With Fenn

This is a place we can discuss his “mysterious” answers.

622 thoughts on “Jenny Kile’s Questions…

  1. “The most common mistake that I see searchers make is that they underestimate the importance of the first clue. f

    It always comes back to the first clue doesn’t it?

  2. For those hoping to get “rich” and even those with other motivations, overestimating the human imagination would take you -past- the treasure. Seems like that could be true for a “few” searchers and perceived as a personal message by many, many, many more.

    PS. Would be honored to go trout fishing soon!

  3. I would imagine this will be the most imaginative random words that Forrest ever gives, but I don’t expect to get rich by saying that.

  4. Does ff mean that if we estimate (put money on it) our imagaination as great, vast, yuuuge, we might lose our money? What is he saying?

  5. I think he’s saying that a lot of the searchers who are positive that they
    have the correct solution, but have read too much into his books are only
    fooling themselves and will find this out for themselves when the weather is better. Just IMO

    Kanafire

    • Thanks for the link Spallies. I sometimes forget to look at Jenny’s site for words from Forrest and I do enjoy reading what he has to say. This time it sounds like he’s telling us to stay by our little fire for now. 🙂

  6. I like Fenn’s newest over @ Jenny’s….more debate about photo shopping. The only “manipulating” going on is in our own minds. This Chase has been a fantastic life study about the human mind…and how it sees and interprets things…and then what we turn it into for our own purposes. That in itself would be a great book subject….

  7. This new post at MW 3/22/17…

    Here is the update that I have been hoping to see.

    Forrest may not feel like there is a comfortable way to update his, “within 500 feet,” and, “within 200 feet,” comments (that are rather dated) but he is a very, very creative and deep thinking man.

    “I think the gold -will again- become alert to the tromp and -vibrations- of hiking boots.” says it all.

    Thank you Forrest!
    Thank you Jenny for hosting this update (and -possibly- writing the question)!

    Can’t wait to go trout fishing. Do they bite when the water is warm? How about very very warm?

    • I wonder how much fun it is when your solve goes “POOF”.
      I had sent him a video of where I think it is & now i know that goes bye bye.

      Gonna start from scratch again.

      • But of course, Goofy….I fully intend to!! 🙂

        Looks like to me he is saying to look at the map and plot your course before leaving :

        “but before you go, look at the poem as if it were a map, because it is, and like any other map, it will show you where to go if you follow its directions.”

      • How can you go to the trees “where the box is,” if you don’t know where you’re going?

        He just told us the poem is the map that will tell you where the treasure is…if you follow the instructions.

        You can have the right and good map before you even get up from your “arm chair.” 🙂

        IMO.

        Oh and “iota” = “I outta” 🙂

      • The poem has always been a map in my mind… the question still remains… what “details” do we need?

        Lets take some of what we know;
        Geography might help { land?}.
        GE..which in my mind is more about satellite “real imaging” {GE “and/or” a good map.}
        All the information to find the chest is in the poem.
        Certainty beforehand… warned the path would not be direct except for the one who…
        How many clues @ home? All of them, in theory… { but not practical if you actually want to retrieve }.
        The finder will go right to the chest.
        Was thinking about centuries down the road.

        So, what don’t we have?
        Do “all” the clues refer to places and IF not, is a clue that is not a place have anything to do with one or more of the places?

        Example… is there a distance needed to be traveled from wwwh into a canyon to the hoB and the place for no meekies? Or do we {searchers} even have to go into a canyon?
        The clues are contiguous. { think this might help to the scale of the search } But now I have to wonder what exactly is the “big picture” and what I that “Important possibility” that nobody has seem to not mention to fenn?

        By the way Loco… I really liked your Q&A…

      • Hi Goofy: I think the armchair folks will revel in this Q/A. (I consider myself first and foremost in the armchair category, even though I’ve been out searching multiple times. 😉 Beating a dead horse but the clues are in the poem and the answers are found on maps. No need to add ” in my opinion” because it’s a direct statement from Forrest. It probably frustrates Forrest how daft some searchers are, including “Outta Here”. Maybe Forrest will go atomic at some point and say the keyword is [redacted] you idiots!! 😉

        • So the keyword is ‘redacted’ thanks I had already found it but I was not sure, lol…
          C’mon Zap, I don’t think Forrest is that arrogant and he knew exactly how ‘daft’ we are.
          The keyword you say you found on the first stanza, is it one word only or is it two in one? You said you are not using anagrams, how about homophones?

        • Oz10 — I was just trying to inject some levity into the situation. As exemplified by his response to “Outta Here”, Forrest is too polite to respond in the manner of my tongue-in-cheek fictional outburst. As for my keyword, I feel I’ve written too much about it already.

          • Ok zap. I was only confused with your description of the word that is key that you found which it seems to also be your first clue and that will not match ff statement.

          • Hi Oz10 — I don’t follow. Which ff statement are you referring to that my first clue assumption doesn’t match?

          • Zap, still talking about the same comment: …many are giving serious thought to the clues, but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key.

            If you say that the word/key found in the 1st stanza is also the first clue then, at least to me, it doesn’t connect with his comment.

          • Oz10,
            It seems to make sense if you add… searchers ignore the first clue, or don’t dwell enough on the first clue, go back to the first clue, and need to nail down the first clue comments.

            Now take into consideration that the searchers who indicated the first clue{s} didn’t know it… ya might just have the word that is key being involved with the most important clue that kicks starts it all.

          • Yes, it will make sense if ff had said that but he didn’t, at least in this instance. He could’ve said many are giving serious thought to the clues, but only a few are in tight focus with that first clue that is key. He made a distinction of thinking about the clues and being in focus with a {(-word-)}, that is why I think it must be a word in the poem.

            Now, if you say to me, the word that is key is ‘riches’. Think about that word, its different meanings and how it relates to new and old, and within the context of the stanza. Once you figure that out, that is your first clue and that will make you understand what your second clue (wwh) is and so on…

            Then that will make sense, if that one word, in this example ‘riches’ a word in the poem, and being in tight focus with it uncovered that first clue. Lets say that we found out that the first clue is ‘Richard Brown’, can you also now claim that (riches) is the -word that is key- and also it is the first clue? It doesn’t make sense right? (riches) is never Richard Brown by itself, only with the context of the stanza and a bit of imagination we found what riches was referring to. Take out that word/key from the first stanza and it will be almost impossible to take that context and convert it into Richard Brown, but having -riches- to focus on we now have a possibility in front of us.

            Just in case, this is my opinion and Richard Brown is an example.

          • It is peculiar that out of thousands of people that have searched that nobody is getting this key word right. Apparently if we do get it right though we won’t know it until we find the TC. So that makes it even more obscure.

            Knowing this it sounds like that the people that got the first clues right did it by happenstance. There are a number of places you can start the chase if you are going by WWH being the beginning and some people seem to just possibly randomly pick the right area.

            Because people have got the first few clues and are not getting the word that is key it stands to reason that the word that is key is not what F would consider a clue. Is this other peoples view of this?

          • Aaron, I don’t think we can state that every searcher hasn’t got the correct word that is key yet cause of your correct observation…we won’t know until the tc is found.

            I don’t think the word that is key is a clue but I think it helps unlock one of the important clues.

          • Thanks for the reply fun, it is interesting to learn of everyone else’s process.

            It seems like either A) the key word helps with the starting area and then follow the clues from there or B) the key word helps with all of the clues. If that is the case then it would make sense that the people that F have stated that were on the right track got off track because they didn’t have the word that is key and maybe if they did they would have known where they were.

            Does most peoples key word help with them with the starting area, the clues, or both?

          • Oz10 and others following along — I guess I don’t see a problem with the first clue ALSO being Forrest’s “word that is key.” Does Forrest count it as a clue? Maybe, maybe not. But by his definition, a “hint” only helps you with a clue, while a clue brings you closer to the chest. Since my key word most certainly focuses my search on a much smaller geographic area than the entirety of the four-state region, then it seems to me it would qualify as a clue. It also precedes all other clues in the poem, and without it you cannot confidently identify the correct WWWH (although a few might still guess it).

        • Exactly Seeker, only the first two clues are on a map. And lots of searchers have solved the first two clues and been close to the treasure, but went past the other seven.

          I have old maps, new maps, historic trail maps; I have an extensive set of very detailed topo maps with satellite and GIS overlays (I use them for work) that I have purchased. The solution is not on those maps. The poem doesn’t tell us what to look for on a map, the poem is the map. All we have to do is get to the location of the first two clues and with our imagination match the geographical features in the poem to the landscape we see in front of us. Once we do that we can go straight to the treasure with confidence and wonder to ourselves what took so long.

          This makes solving the poem extraordinarily difficult, simple with no subterfuge does not mean easy. This is the only way I can make all his statements true.

          I know this makes all you armchair searchers go atomic. But his statements are clear, he has told us how to solve the poem.

          Just my opinion.

          • Hey Goofy, since you have a collection of maps and use them for work, you may be ahead of most of us in this field. Have you tried to read the poem (or parts of it) as a description of a map to use? does anything in the poem stands out from that perspective?
            Instead of clues to locations, maybe hints to maps?

          • Yes Oz I’ve tried to look at the poem that way, but haven’t been able to get a complete solution doing that. There are some really interesting maps a person can find; but I try to reframe from getting off on tangents by asking myself is this something a regular person with no specialized knowledge could come up with.

            If I come up with a solution or a method of finding a solution that I can shoot down with one of Fenn’s comments, then I have to accept I’m on the wrong track, no matter how perfect some of the clues seem to fit.

            What I’ve described to Seeker is the only method I can come up with that makes all of Fenn’s statements true without doing Olympic level mental gymnastics twisting his statements to a ridiculous level.

          • Good to know thanks. I just had that thought with the ‘look at the poem as a map’ statement. Since no specialized knowledge is needed I guess we can assume that the place could be found with any map. I mean, we can just walk into a 7-11 and buy those fold out maps to find the starting point. That is what a redneck from Texas will do, no need for GPS, Google earth, etc…

        • Goofy~ “The poem doesn’t tell us what to look for on a map, the poem is the map. All we have to do is get to the location of the first two clues and with our imagination match the geographical features in the poem to the landscape we see in front of us.”

          { I’m going to try and word this carefully, so I’ll use Caps on certain words }

          While I agree with your statement… I don’t agree that imagination is needed to locate the CLUES. Because, there is a difference between locating and UNDERSTANDING.

          Fenn has said The CLUES can be …IMO… done at home… but practicality says you have to be there { to FIND the chest}. If all this is, is locating a clue, then another, then another… the poem seems to get harder as we travel… Because fenn feels those with the clues {even up to the first four} didn’t know.

          Something is still missing… I think it’s more than likely the clues need to be used/utilized to “FIND” the chest and not JUST LOCATE the geographical features of a clue’s reference. It just doesn’t make sense that searchers have indicated, decipher clues and not known or able to go on to the correct SPOT of the chest. Unless, something is needed to be done with or understood about all the clues or at least many of the clues…

          The RM’s are still moving… in a thousand years it will be harder to located the chest.
          Does that really sound like a marker/blaze simply is in place on top or next to the chest? If things { land / land features / CLUES move even a few inches over a long period of time… what gets knocked out of wack?
          IMO it’s not a single marker location. So in theory… could the blaze be an alignment tool, with other clues and points to the chest’s 10″ sq spot?

          The clues seem to be able to be solved at home… but in practicality one needs to be there to SEE / FIND the chest’s spot… “retrieve” is not finding… that’s the act of taking it from it’s spot {kinda like found vs discover}. IMO that is why fenn used the word, “retrieve” the chest before notifying the chest is no longer were he placed it.

          I’m not saying we don’t need some imagination to locate clues… but I think locating is only part of the solution. “…follow its- {poem} directions.”
          Lead; to go in a particular direction… or to ‘allow’ or ’cause this’…

          • IMO. It’s about finding the right starting point. Then putting the clues in order. Just because people have solved the first two clues and been within 200 ft. Doesn’t mean they had the right starting point. The correct starting point is not BOTG. It’s the poem.

          • Common people give up on the armchair.

            But if you knew the geographic location of each clue it would be a map to the treasure. f

            Time to go see if I’m right about the first 2 clues and then follow the poem 🙂

          • For me I think what is missing is the starting point, or area, or first clue. This seems to be the most important clue. You can marry these clues to the map in numerous locations. People are confident about their solves all over the place so they cannot all have the first clue, or general area right.

          • Aaron: you are absolutely right. If someone doesn’t have the first clue figured out with reasonable certainty, I believe they are wasting their time. As Forrest has suggested, if you don’t have that first clue nailed down, you might as well play Canasta.

            The starting point is anything but unambiguous, IMO. When you’ve got it, you know it.

          • Perhaps the missing is the linking of the two. A telescope can be used but eyes of the mind are required to find.

          • Randy,
            I think your right about the starting point…
            Fenn’s two comments {Paraphrasing}
            Need to know where to start.
            Need to start at the beginning.

            Is that what’s missing?
            So how does that help if correct? I mean, if all it does is get a searcher to the area of the clues… that’s been done… searchers have been on location and deciphered/indicated/told fenn the first two clues. That “right location thought” doesn’t seem too important as much as understanding the clues.

            So what other reason is there for Knowing where to start and need to start at the beginning?

            My one thought is of Little Indy or anyone else “can not get closer” than the first two clues… this might be implying that the chest itself is very near, even if the descriptions in the poem seem farther along or apart.

            hmm! just now a thought popped in my head… whatIF wwwHalt doesn’t mean stop or change in direction, or merging hot to cold… but separates it’s self or separated by something.

            Sorry…the mind is always going.

          • Seeker;

            You may not like me responding to your post, but I have to agree with everything that you said. Just solving the clues is not enough, the successful searcher will have to UNDERSTAND what those clues are POINTING to. JDA

          • JDA,
            I’m gonna put this straight out there… I don’t care if you respond to my posting… I encourage that. I want folks to tear up, chew to pieces my thoughts and ideas and buck-heads with a good debate/point of veiw of the information we have… so I don’t go off half cock on some wild-tangent game.

            What I can’t stand the whining and temper tantrums BS, and know for a fact attitudes and comments. But my biggest pet peeve… hiding behind “I know for a fact” with three letters I-m-o.

            But, I’m a honest and fair guy and will say… I do tend to be a bit short on temper when it comes to that crap… You and I have two different personality that just clash.
            I can and have been civil… but I have a short fuse for factual sayers with no facts to back it up.

            I’m only looking for conversations / theories of / ideas from searchers on information that has been presented to the search by fenn.

            So if you want to comment on one of my post… go right ahead… but there is no need to start your response with; “You may not like me responding to your post,..” its childish and unnecessary.

          • Seeker;

            Thanks for your response. I appreciate it.

            I have to agree with your recent posts, I can find no fault with what you have had to say.

            Yes, we do have different personalities, and we have clashed in the past. Hopefully those days are behind us.

            JDA

          • JDA,

            I hold no hard feeling… even though I admit I’m hard headed, I’m an easy going person with sandpaper skin. If ya rub me wrong it will hurt.

            The past is the past.

        • Seeker, don’t mind me I just found a great WWH in Mississippi. My -attention deficit disorder- gives me great flexibility…

  8. Fenn’s own words…basically…the poem is a map. So, the poem is the right map…right.? Here we go ! Yippeee !

  9. It all seems pretty direct to me – Get out of your armchair – Use the poem as a map, because it is one – GO GET THE TREASURE! – Pretty direct – Now if we only knew how to interpret the WORDS onto a MAP – HUMMMM JDA

  10. “if you follow its directions”

    So, what are the directions?
    Do we start where it says to begin?
    Do we stop the quest when it says to cease?

    I certainly think so & follow the directions & path in between.

    • No takers?
      Maybe someone could just lie to me & agree to what I said to make me feel not so alone. 🙁

        • Yes Alsetenash, the double Omegas.
          That’s what I’m talking about.
          Now, if I could get a lurker, hiding behind their computer to come out & admit their insanity as us, then I have done my job.

          • Jake. After a bit of time now, IMO ,I have a strong idea of his use of the double omega. It just came to me in a moment of realization-bear with me for I am odd. It is not wise for me to say my thesis in points but I can say it theoretically. The only way for me to test my thesis is with my solve involved. I ask my self-‘ Can this idea apply without it adding something to the solve? Does it offer affirmation?’ IMO

            The answer for me is yes. For me , when I conclude something,such as a solve like this, new insights would only affirm but not add additional help in solving. Prior yes, but not at post conclusion of a solve. IMO

            I will say this;: The Omega is the 24th and last letter in the Greek alphabet. There are 24 lines in the poem. Nothing new in thought analysis here, I am sure. Now the Omega is a letter ; the 24th letter. He prints 2 Omegas at the end of each of his books involving the chase.

            Today FF chose the question about nucleus words on MW site. He said :

            “Loco,
            I read the poem again and couldn’t find the nucleus you referred to. Can you point it out to me please?f”

            Basically , I think he is making a statement with his questions answer.
            Ok, so Double Omega:
            There are only 9 numbers in the numeric system and in the Greek language there is 24 letters in the alphabet. Looks familiar right? Just draw a line between the Double Omegas is 24/24 and then numerically same 9/9 . Two sides, one Key Word on one side opens up the other side , that shows the literary 9 clues on one side to that other side. IMO.

            I did my best to make sense being vague in substance.

    • Jake- hey its me again, dodo the byrd.
      go back to colters hell. you got the first two directions right and went past the other seven.

      opinion mine.
      i think.
      maybe not.
      oh well.
      whatever.

  11. I’m gonna try it out tomorrow…I mean using the poem as your map. I think it fits my area. I already found what I hope is the correct WWWH (BOTG yesterday) so tomorrow Molly and I will put in below the home of Brown. Yippee…

  12. I don’t mind ‘armchair’ searchers at all. There is certainly nothing wrong with trying to solve a treasure puzzle just for entertainment. But I don’t consider any of them real contenders in finding the chest. JMHO.

    -Randawg.

    • In the past several “armchair searchers” worked with folks who physically searched in a common area One provided a solution or partial solution while the other provided the eyes and legs and the rest of the solution…

      This works very well when someone not physically able to search but who feels they have figured out the first four clues in the poem for, say a CO location teams up with someone who lives in CO to go out and look around for clues 5-9.

      Their plan of course would be to share the treasure if found..

    • randawg,
      Define “find” for me in your comment… Find the clues and/or what the clues refer to?
      Or Find the chest?

      Fenn seems to have a different meaning to “Find” the treasure vs. “clues” decoded.

      – How much progress can be made by someone just thinking and searching the Internet from home? (Another way of saying this: How many clues can only be decoded in situ?) 
      FF: All of them, in theory, but not likely in practice. A searcher *must go* to the site to *find the treasure.*

      There is a difference to solving the clues and finding the chest… in this armchair study’s opinion… and it falls down to fenn’s warning; “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” f

      • Well Seeker, in my opinion that is a really bad question asked by someone trying to sound more intelligent than they are. Or I’m not reading it correctly.

        The first part of the question ask, “How much progress can be made by someone just thinking and searching the Internet from home?”

        The second part, (Another way of saying this: How many clues can only be decoded in situ?)

        in situ:
        adverb, adjective (postpositive)
        1. in the natural, original, or appropriate position
        2. (pathol) (esp of a cancerous growth or tumour) not seen to be spreading from a localized position

        Word Origin and History for in situ
        Latin, literally “in its (original) place or position” (see situate (v.))

        To me this person asked two completely different questions.
        1. How much progress can be made from home.
        2. How many clues have to be solved on location.

        Apparently this person thinks they are asking how many clues can be solved from home.

        So what do you think his answer means? How do you read the question?

        • Goofy,
          I wish the question didn’t have the add on…
          But lets work with what we have. I can’t take this single question and run with it, without looking at other related comments, statements, Q&A’s etc.

          We have an intro with “Follow” and “lead”
          Lead; to allow, “to cause.”
          Situ; Place or “position”

          We have clues that are places, and told the path would not be direct without “certainty beforehand.” And many other comments…

          So, the question does seem to be answered in two parts Yes you can solve the clues at home… but that is only the clues “references”.
          You must be on site to “find” the chest…
          But if the chest is hidden so well it will not be stumble upon {even by a searcher in the correct location} without a complete solution… which seems to have happened many times… what is it we’re not thinking of?

          Do the clues “cause” us to find the chest? “Allow” the clues to be used in someway as to direct us to a piece of land only 10″ sq.
          A method, if you will, like a compass or a sundial or alignment or triangulation, using the clues as such, and not just stomping to locations.

          We have the comment that the chest will be harder to find as time goes on, because of, land movement… if that land / places / clues move over time {even by a few inches or feet}, What gets knocked out of wack?
          What changes the clues and makes it harder to “allow” the clues to lead us, and “cause” us not to find or make harder to find the chest’s 10″ sq hidden spot “precisely”, farther “down the road”?

          IMO, the clues themselves might need to be used/understood/utilized in some manner to “discover” what they do to actually pin point a scant spot.
          If the clues move… the ‘spot’ is harder to locate.

          Another words… using fenn’s Found vs. Discover…
          Evn if you “found” the clues references at home or in the field… we may need to “discover” what they actually are or are used as. { think of walking a straight line by viewing a distant object to keep you in that straight line as you walk through an area, I’m sure you know what I mean.}

          Just like “found the bones” but did not “discover the bone”… type of bones found. A searcher may find a clue reference, but may not understood / discover what it was meant for.

          Yeah, I know… some will say this is over complicating. I say this is analyzing in depth. Over complicating are those who still want to use coded messages, use bibles studies, think the poem is so straight forwards it easy to just stomp over miles of lands and canyons and raft rivers and use horses or ATV or the need to drive from clue to clue… because fenn wanted us out in nature. Well, so far the poem as done its job well. But no chest.

          Is the “important possibility” is to Use the clues?

          Well, that’s my story and I’m sticking with it.

          • Remember that quote about not knowing if the first clue is correct until the treasure is found…? That one aspect haunts me to no end…something very abstract about that statement makes me circle back around every time. Also…if you don’t know where it is…go back to the beginning.Hmmmmm….

          • Hi Seeker – with regards to the Rocky Mountains are changing and moving, I personally think that is related to earthquakes, mudslides, and some of the other natural occurrences f has mentioned in some of his comments. Search the quotes documents for earthquakes, etc and see if that might fit into the picture of the changes over 1000 years scenario, it does for me.

          • ken,
            …not knowing if the first clue is correct until the treasure is found…?

            The obvious thought; if you didn’t find the chest, you didn’t nail down the clue.

            But there are many comments on the first clue;
            Certainty beforehand.
            Didn’t find the chest go back to the first clue.
            Can’t start in the middle of the poem and/or look for later clues.
            “Can not get closer” than the first two clues.
            Not find the chest on spring break or a Sunday picnic.
            etc. etc.
            { I shorten the quotes for typing and space, but i’m sure you get the gist}

            Why can’t we find it on spring break? is that an actual possibility to a hint? Fenn finally came out and said he hid the chest in summer… is this a helpful suggestion?

            Is the chest closer to the first clue or two clues than the others and maybe this is why Little Indy “can not get closer” than the first two clues?
            If we won’t know we have the first clue until we have the chest… is that just common sense or is it that the first clues is much more important than just a place?
            Yet we are told we shouldn’t start in the middle of the poem, example the blaze, or later clues…BUT… if we know what hoB is, why would we be concerned about wwh or apparently canyon down or too far to walk.
            Maybe hoB is the place to start? and the clues are put in below? It is the only stand alone sentence in a stanza, other than stanza 6

            Maybe the important possibility is… begin it where… too far to walk are below hoB.

            Might that change thoughts of, know where to start and start at the beginning and the need to nail down the first clue, make the reading of the poem a specific location and not so much a dart toss of the Many wwh in the RM’s?

            Ok I know the next question… Seeker aren’t ya taking the clues out of order?
            Nope. if the poem can be read as such does that change the consecutive order of the clues?

            Look at stanza 5.
            Look quickly down comma your quest to cease comma But… do something else. Is quest to cease just an add thought to here’s what you need to do look quickly down but tarry scant with marvel gaze… your quest to cease. Just take the chest and go in peace… and if that is ok… why can’t hoB be the starting point where wwh is below it.

            I have entertained many thought on how to read the poem.. but interpretation is very difficult if we take the literal order of placement and not the intended order of understand the interpretation.

            Remember the reading tools/books we used to learn out to read in grade school?
            See Dick, See Spot, See Spot run… are we seeing spot run or seeing Dick see spot run?

          • JCM,
            Take it a step further and look at the geography of the range itself… the up lift and movement of the CD plays a big roll in the big picture line of thinking.
            And takes time for that movements to occur… in 3009 it will be harder… This line of thought is somewhat predictable. We know of this movement and its effects…
            Mudslide, and Flash floods and earth quakes are unpredictable.

            So, to keep the clues as usable 100 or a 1000 years down the road… the predictable scenario might be the more likely thoughts behind the clues with the lesser chance of a major movement.

            But nothing is certain over long periods of time… but to set up land features as clues… that would be my thoughts of down the road. That, and keep the clues closer together and not so much miles and miles apart.

            Just attempting to be rational in thinking.

          • Yes Seeker,
            The many comments on the first clue are my check points for sure…And I admit that I take his comment about starting at the beginning literally. My path/method of interp. is to utilize the poem/map as is written(order from 1st to 6th)…such as a list of instructions. Taken out of order…the front wheel of the tricycle may end up on the left rear….you get the point. The ambiguity of the poem as written reinforces that concept for me. But, I do understand what you are saying about the possibility of HOB being the start point. In fact…in my solve(partial solve) I can actually say that is where the work begins.
            Your “Might that change the thoughts…” is spot on in my scenario. My first clue nails The location and takes the question of WWWH right out of the equation…WWWH is my second clue. From my perspective I understand the “Indie” dilemma at that point because there are some choices to make before moving further into the solve. Folks have spoken about the circular solve…and to an extent… that rings true for me. This is a choice issue that is pretty much decided for me, vs. me choosing. I’ve slammed a couple of your posts about interpreting out of order, but really, in my scenario I can do that once I am decided on previous steps/clues. It works as a check and balance.
            Also…your “Obvious thought…” comment about no find /no nail 1st clue…is not accurate for me. For me it means I made a bad choice further along because of the path choices.
            So… My original comment above comes from reading your discover/found comment…It rang a bell because of the “certainty beforehand” statement. You put words to what was in the back of my mind and the issue of discovery and retrieval, and how that leads to a speck in the dirt….

          • Seeker – you said:

            ‘Why can’t we find it on spring break? is that an actual possibility to a hint? Fenn finally came out and said he hid the chest in summer… is this a helpful suggestion?’

            Forrest did say in one comment that was spoken in the month of March of some few years ago that no one is gong to find the chest tomorrow. One of those small things that doesn’t seem to say much, but plenty to to the observer paying attention and thinking.

            If my search area is accessible in the month of March, I don’t expect that I will find the chest there.

      • “Define “find” for me in your comment…”

        I mean to locate where the chest is and bring it home.
        I will add something else for you to ponder. When Fenn says: “A searcher must go to the site to find the treasure.” I think he structured the clues to unfold in a very specific way on site; And I don’t believe he had the intention nor expectation for the chest to be discovered on the first (or second, or third) search once the correct area is located.

        -Randawg.

        • randawg ~ “I think he structured the clues to unfold in a very specific way on site;”
          Yep…lol… no if we only knew what that specific way was, we be golden.

          I too think the poem was designed to make us fail at first… a type of security system that only allows the the one who understand the blueprint of the poem to locate the chest…{ in the manner fenn designed it to be found }

          But I wouldn’t rule out an armchair analyzing searcher to discover that designed… The challenge might come down the winning solve as… vacationers Vs. reasoner

          • Perhaps make us fail at first? Lesson learned, like buying a painting from friendly hustlers from back east. Never make that mistake again. He may of thought of everything but the unexplainable, like a gremlin, some abnormalities just can’t be explained or planned for. Perhaps why a child might have an advantage. They’re minds haven’t been programmed or corrupted by greed, porn, unsavory characters and events. They look you straight in the eye unless they are embarrassed or ashamed of something.
            The little things are important, like trust and honesty, especially when no one is watching. Someone will find the way and know the effort was worth the cold. Which might not be one iota what it sounds like. And IMO you can 100% trust where it begins, for this I am certain. Just be prepared to turn a cheek and share the good fortune with those who are most impressionable and deserve a good break.

          • LoL…A child’s mind not corrupted by greed, porn, unsavory characters..
            How young is this child??

  13. The poem is a map.

    Identify a word that is key in the poem, which tells you where to start .

    Once you have the starting location, follow the directions in the poem as if it were a map

    You don’t even need to know what wwwh or home of Brown are as long as you identify the correct starting place.

    Also the poem can be solved from your arm chair because if you correctly identify the starting point, you can then look on GE and follow the directions of the poem to the location.

    You will, however, need to go to that location to retrieve the treasure chest

  14. You are very insightful Ramona. I think we all use GE to research the clues. The most anyone can achieve from home is a hypothesis. Since the poem is not really solved until the chest is retrieved, it’s impossible for one to solve the poem from their armchair.

  15. Regarding Fenn’s answer on Jenny’s site a couple days ago, “but before you go, look at the poem as if it were a map, because it is, and like any other map, it will show you where to go if you follow its directions.” I mentioned I was going to go to my search area yesterday and try it out…I mean using the poem as the map. You can all breathe a sigh of relief because I did not find the treasure chest, yet. At least 3/4ths of you weren’t worried anyway, right? Just wanted to give a quick update: I had two places for hoB using the same WWWH and “take it in the canyon down,” and “not far, but too far to walk.” So next is “put in” which I think means crossing a stream. One of my choices used a footbridge and the other choice higher up the canyon (closer to WWWH) meant at this particular hoB you had to cross the stream on a log, or wade, or find a stepping stone, etc. It was not wide here and even with all the rushing water from the snow melt, it was doable. The problem was SNOW, SNOW, SNOW. Both areas where I put in and then where “From there it’s no place for the meek”, (which to me is where you leave the trail, road, human path) Molly and I bushwhacked through the forest was mostly not doable. We tried walking across the top of snow banks and drifts but I fell through up to my snatch. At this point, I decided to wait a couple more weeks to continue my search. But, the clearing where one of the hoBs was located was beautiful. Molly and I climbed to the top of a small knoll situated on top an old mining claim there. The vista was awesome…we were in a canyon surrounded by forest with an alpine peak above tree level sticking out above in the distance. We could hear the stream babbling and stellar’s jays hollering, butterflies were all around, the grass was green with dandelions poking through here and there. We went home empty handed but filled with pleasant memories. We shall return there again the end of May. (Ramona, if you read this, I’m working on the video. Thanks for your kind words a couple days ago.)

  16. Interesting Q&A in my mind; others may not agree, but my take is the same as fenn’s comment [ in part ] “Although I am not ready to say the treasure is not in water, I certainly didn’t want moisture to enter the jar.”
    IMO. No water grave, No anagrams.
    What say you?

    Q&A;
    Forrest, many people entertain themselves by anagramming words, would you consider this just tomfoolery?
    Thanks for everything Forrest…..loco
    Loco,
    If someone is entertained by anagramming words I will not say it is tomfoolery.f

    • I think the reply left the issue wide open. There was no squashing of anagrams there.

      Loco was wise to word it like he did to allow Forrest as much wiggle room as he wanted to take.

      Anagrams never lie. They are like pen-doodles that reflect what a person is thinking at the time. The solve might come by means of anagrams even if they weren’t purposely planted in the poem.

    • Hi Seeker — no mention of the poem or the Chase in Loco’s question or Forrest’s answer, so I would caution reading too much into it. That said, I think Forrest provided the answer to ~your~ question in his succinct reply containing some tomfoolery of his own.

    • Interesting, is it not, Seeker, the number of people who still entertain themselves with anagrams, after all this time??

      (oh yeah…. you gotta invite to walk on the wild side…..over at Harry’s!)

        • LOL!! Seeker, I had forgotten that I posted to you. Not sure which statement your reply is directed at(maybe both??)?

          But in case it ya got the wrong idea about my statement above, or the Q&A at Jenny’s, I do not consider anagramming as a viable method in any form or fashion! 🙂

  17. Hi Forrest, we are now aware that the poem is a map. If the poem is a map and will tell us exactly where to go, why couldn’t the little girl from India get past the first two clues? I think it’s because after solving all nine clues from home, the ocean prevents her from journeying to the precise location to retrieve the treasure chest. ~ Lagerta the Bold

    Dear Whoever Asked This Question,

    Thanks for answering it for me. f

    Say whut???

    • Hi pdenver — I was just about to post that link. Anyone whose solve is in the desert: kaboom! Forrest just killed it.

    • f’s latest answer is great advice that f gives and especially relevant to those not familiar and experienced with the mountains.

      Three main take-a ways as related to finding the chest:

      “Please don’t ever overextend yourself. I was 80 or about when I hid the treasure and it was not a difficult task. I will soon be 87 and I could go back and get it if I were so inclined, I think.”

      “You don’t have to move big rocks, or scale a precipice to get to the treasure. Stay away from dangerous terrain.”

      “If your solve is in the desert, get a new solve, and remember, much of the Rio Grande River is not in the Rocky Mountains.”

      I am not sure that first one will still be good enough for some to officially settle the recent discussions and opinions expressed over the last month. I await with interest the spins and rationalizations that almost 10% of a persons life fits into the constraints of the word ‘about’? 🙂

      Then there are the synonyms for about…
      synonyms: near, nearby, around, hereabouts, not far (off/away), close by, in the vicinity, in the neighborhood

      Also interesting…

  18. I am curious to know why it is important to know exactly how old Mr. Fenn was when he hid the treasure. About 80? About face – do a 180, turn around.

    • Simple answer lifesablaze.
      The older you get, the less ground you can travel.
      Does this work for you or do you defy gravity & age?

        • A good tell by F today.
          “I will soon be 87 and I could go back and get it if I were so inclined, I think.”

          I would have to think it’s a mild hike, scenic & with lots wildlife with some wild flowers sprung. 3 miles max but put a cap on rough terrain.

          Let’s not forget about sage.

          • “So inclined” – a south facing inclination?
            Fits perfectly within my solve very near where the blaze is.
            There are cliffs all around except this one spot.

          • Jake – It’s apparent that you want to eat your hat. It’s highly probable that you will get your wish this search season. If the chest is found, you can’t back out or can you? No key for you.

    • I think it may be more important to know that he has said he hid the treasure at two different times seven years apart.

  19. I have learned, the hard way, to consider my level of risk tolerance when out on adventures. Typically for any adventure I will either be alone or with one other person. You can start out a day with safe behavior in mind, and then as the day moves along and situations change you might tend to let your risk tolerance creep further and further away from safe behaviors. And when nothing bad happens it tends to reinforce that unsafe act. I am more inclined to that when alone.

    On my searches I have crossed the line several times and done some stupid things, knowing better all along. One such situation is when your target destination doesn’t have a clear path and you start choosing a best path. At some point you find yourself with the dilemma of going a short but dangerous route or retracing your steps and trying something different and probably safer. Time is slipping away, you have made many sacrifices to be at that place at that time, and losing precious hours by wandering around will start to affect your judgement. The next thing you know you are scaling that precipice that Forrest warns against.

    I only have one more search trip left , I will retrace previous safe steps.
    But I hope anyone reading this will not rationalize dumb risks like I have shown a tendency for. Plan, prepare for any situation, don’t let a safety mindset drift away as a day unfolds. Stop and re-group if you find yourself unprepared for a situation.

    My 1660 mile drive presents my biggest risk, so please be careful on the highway as well.

    • Live & learn Meadowlark.
      Oh, listen to the man that wrote the poem.
      It could save your life if you don’t.

  20. Re: The 07/05/17 question: Do You Remember?

    I found similar African dolls online that were made in the 20th century for the tourist trade. Mr Fenn may have sold some African dolls but he sounds a little ‘underwhelmed’ by this example. His passion is obviously in native American objects that are of greater age and importance.

    And then he could simply be saying that he sold lots of things in his gallery and can’t be expected to remember them all…

    -Randawg.

  21. * ~ “To answer some questions and save others from being asked, I did follow the clues in the poem when I hid the treasure chest, although I hid it before the poem was complete. (Completed?) f ” (posted 6/5/2017)

    What was missing from the poem at the time of the hiding of the chest?

    There are many meanings/usage of follow, complete, completed… example; Follow can mean observe, happen in a pattern. Complete can mean necessary parts. Completed can mean make whole. Yet, we have “before [the poem] was”, as qualifiers without absolute, meaning a missing variable.

    We have been told to think, analyze, Plan and Observe… Can we [ the searchers ] actually complete the poem’s clues prior to being on site [in theory] and know exactly [ precisely ] the location of the chest, or is it needed to be on site to finish/have all the parts/observe the clues that “lead” to the chest?
    “Lead” and “Follow” are words of understanding/showing/explaining… understanding how to do something with the information given… simple examples are; following instructions or lead to a conclusion.

    Are the clues only physical features to find and walk to [stomping] or are we to utilize the clues, in some form, to make known the place the chest lays in wait?… Another words… Did fenn have to do something on site [that we must also do] to complete the the poem’s directions?

    My example is… observing an event that will show the location of a hidden spot. An event that completes the poem/clues, and only finalizes the poem at that time and location. My reference to the thought is; “…The Rocky mountains are still moving and associated physical changes will surely have an impact. If you are in the year 3,009 it will be more difficult…”

    • Thanks for the post Seeker;

      A lot to think about. Most poignant is your last paragraph: ” observing an event that will show the location of a hidden spot. An event that completes the poem/clues, and only finalizes the poem at that time and location. My reference to the thought is; “…The Rocky mountains are still moving and associated physical changes will surely have an impact. If you are in the year 3,009 it will be more difficult…” I ThiMk (as close to ThiNking as I can come) that I know what to look for, and where to look, so that the “Event that completes the poem” can be successful. Yes, the Rockies are still moving, and that could have an effect – we shall see. Thanks – JDA

    • Oh yeah…forgot to comment on Seeker’s post here from 8/25/17…his(seekers) first ideas about “lead” and “follow” and “What was missing…hiding of the chest.
      Another way of interpreting what Fenn was saying “…although I hid it before the poem was completed.”. He(Fenn) was done hiding the treasure before the end of the poem. The point to ponder here may be…at what point in the poem was the deed done(complete)?
      In terms of identifying/observing a particular event to indicate/point to the location of a “hidden spot”, seems overly complicated and not likely given the unpredictable conditions that mother nature lashes the Rocky Mts. with.
      I will say that the poem does seem to have a fair amount of “action” in it…so perhaps there is a sort of “task” to perform to complete the directions. Is that “task”…on site…or could one do that from home?
      Good thoughts about the poem.

      • Ken;

        You bring up an interesting point. Stanza’s 5, 6 and 1 “seem” to be either “Hints” or just “Informational clues”.

        The “Directional” clues seem to be in stanza’s 2,3 and 4. Forrest could have written stanza’s 1 – 4, which would be one informational (hint) stanza, along with all of the directions of how to find the TC – Hid it, and then worked on stanza’s 5 and 6, which are “Hints” that will help with the solving of the clues – or are “Informational clues” – depending on how you count “clues” and “Hints” – just misin’ JDA

        • @JDA I get a little bit of Stanza 6 from the last two paragraphs page 100 TTOTC…IMO, maybe I should place this under topic The Book but just jumping in as I found this interesting reading last night….

          • Good one Cholly…I’m not sure about stanza six…but those paragraphs sure smell real good as to “location”.
            They have been important in my “theory” for quite some time.

        • Ken. The meaningful point to me is that he COULD have written the poem before he hid the treasure. That tells me that none of the clues refer to something that was placed there to serve as a clue location.

          • That too is how I read it…but then noticed that he(Fenn) may be indicating, in an off beat way, that he followed the poem as written(considering posts and conversation at that time), and had hidden the treasure before the end of the poem. Just protein for the brain…nothing more.

      • Ken,
        Yep… [ in my assumption of the comment ] ~ The poem was fully written, the way it was presented in the book, at the time of the act of hiding the chest.
        However, the “clues” and what they reference that lead to the chest, finish prior to the end of the poem itself.
        * In short; The 9 clues will “take/lead” you to the chest… Yet… all the “information to find the chest” still remains within the fully worded poem to be “followed” precisely. { thinking along the line with, ingredients and instruction }.

        You said: ~ an event ~ “seems overly complicated and not likely given the unpredictable conditions that mother nature lashes the Rocky Mts. with.”

        So, an ‘event’ such as the solstice, used by many generations around world… from Stonehenge to Pyramids to Medicine wheels etc. are ‘unpredictable conditions’ for an observational tool, usable for an alignment to locate the chest?

        The question I posed was really rhetorical… Nothing was missing from the poem… fenn followed the clue’s references to the hidey spot… But the real question is… How did that process act out… and… how does the remaining sections of the poem tell all about; how it is to be done, exactly?

        So I agree with your pondering; ~ ‘The point to ponder here may be…at what point in the poem was the deed done(complete)?’
        And will add, as I stated above ~ How do the remaining sections tell “all”? { ‘All’ the “information” to find the chest… is in the poem }. No filler stanzas, no intro or summary or epilogue … But, “information” (completed?)

        LOL, thanks for the response Ken, and good thoughts. I forgot about this posting. But it is a very interesting fenn comment in my book.

        • I was away for a bit and was catching up. Your above comment caught my eye…as I have been trying to break down what is what in the poem, and at what point was the deed done.
          I’ve read many of the old posts about possible “event” theories(solstices etc.) and remain NOT convinced that this is viable. Scientists are just now discovering the true nature of Stonehenge and how it was designed and used(to my knowledge they(scientists) do not have a vague poem as reference). Fenn himself admits that the Rockies are moving which will make things more difficult…mix in some super storms and you get my point. The truth is…I just don’t see enough in the poem to set something like that up…”Time” is a difficult and finicky animal to control and measure with complete accuracy without some serious “specialized knowledge”…some folks may be excited to learn that the physical attributes/quantities of time can be used to determine other quantities, and that lends itself to being “circular”.
          As to the rest of the verbiage (not really leftovers)…seems like an awful lot…doesn’t it?

        • “You should not need to look any words up…”

          I don’t know Aaron. I mean, “any word[s]” kinda implies all words, no matter what language.
          This is just an after thought..but.. I wonder if an non-English speaking/ reader wanted to translate the book and poem to attempt the challenge… could it be done exactly / precisely like fenn intended? Or does the book help with more than a couple of hints and aberrations out on the edge?

          Like I said before… I hope “any words” means any ‘Spanish’ words, or Latin or french, or Native American tribal language…
          LOL or I’m gonna need a whole new blackboard and burn the old one.

          • Seeker, most of the questions that FF answers that get posted gives him wiggle room with the answer including this one. He changed words by looking up definitions. That is clear enough for me.

      • Seeker: how do you figure? Forrest said “You should *not* (my emphasis) need to look any words up John.” I don’t know how Forrest could be any more clear: translating from Spanish to English (or English to Spanish) will be of no use in finding the treasure. E.C. Waters probably could have used this info a few years ago. 😉

        • FF~ “I looked up words and definition of words and changed them, went back and rebooted… it [poem] turned out exactly like I wanted.”

          Yep Zap… clear as a bell.

          • “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about… Latin,…will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions…”
            Ring Ring…

            I could keep going with examples of other comments. But…

        • Zap;

          Your inserting (English to Spanish) says that you get the play on words in the question – and also shows your bias against looking up words.

          The entire question is: “Hello Mr. Fenn,

          For those of us that do not speak a lick of Spanish, would a Spanish to English dictionary be helpful in our search for your treasure chest?

          Thanks,
          John

          You should not need to look any words up John. Good luck. f

          John – who is probably English (not Jose) asks Will he need to use a Spanish to English dictionary. Probably not, since he is probably reading the poem in English!

          Understanding “not a lick” of Spanish, it would be MOST difficult to look up a Spanish word to find out if it meant “wood” for example.

          Your bias against anyone ever needing to look up ANY word in the poem is mind boggling – but that is YOUR choice – Good Luck JDA

        • Zap;

          You miss the point: The question is:
          Hello Mr. Fenn,

          For those of us that do not speak a lick of Spanish, would a Spanish to English dictionary be helpful in our search for your treasure chest?

          Thanks,
          John

          You should not need to look any words up John. Good luck. f

          One can probably assume that JOHN is English, reading the poem in English. John says that: “For those of us that do not speak a lick of Spanish” – How can he possibly use a Spanish to English dictionary to find out the Spanish word for (say) “wood”? Impossible. He would have to look at almost every word until – at last – he came across MADERA.

          It is also difficult to understand your bias against looking up ANY word in the poem. It boggles my mind – but that is YOUR choice – Good Luck to Ya’ JDA

          • JDA: did you actually READ my post, or just assume what it said? Jeez, I thought I was crystal clear. I spoke ONLY of translating between languages. I said nothing disparaging about looking up words in a dictionary. I didn’t even address that issue. So that’s your bias showing, not mine.

          • Zap;

            If I misread what you posted, I apologize. What I read was:”Forrest said “You should *not* (my emphasis) need to look ANY (My emphasis) words up John.” I don’t know how Forrest could be any more clear: To me this said that you thought that no one should look up ANY words.

            If I interpreted what you said – my bad – JDA

          • JDA: you did interpret my post incorrectly, so apology excepted. By empasisizing that one word in Forrest’s quote, you changed the meaning significantly. Hopefully you saw my other post in this thread where I leave no doubt what I’m talking about.

            Solution dependence on dictionaries is a separate matter, and Forrest has not said such activities are unneeded. Clearly your solution depends on it, so U understand your hypersensitivity to the topic.

        • I had to read the quwestion over three times, but Spanish to English dictionary probably would not help, since the poem is probably being read by “John” (and not Jose) in English – JDA

        • Seeker: you’re mixing apples and oranges. The context of Forrest’s comment is crystal clear: no Spanish. That is a completely different question from whether one has to look up words in a dictionary. Forrest was only addressing a particular foreign language translation. However, personally, I think by extension we can also rule out German, French, Italian, Russian, Dutch, Turkish, Polish, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Thai, Portuguese, Greek, Latin, Maori, Hindi, Arabic, Zulu, and any other non-English language. (Probably means we can rule out “American”, too, since it bares only marginal resemblance to English.)

          • Wait! What? Rule out American Language??? If we rule that out, I’ll need to learn English. I ain’t be gonna ta go threw anoterh 12 yeers of ta, American Education System, again…

      • Possible. I know very little Spanish, and I would need to either see a Spanish word/name/place, etc. and look up the word to see what it means, or, I would need to use an English to Spanish dictionary to compare. Not sure if that makes any sense.

          • Luckily, I didn’t ask the question. When I do, I try to be specific where there isn’t much wiggle room to answer.

          • The key word is “try”. I believe if Mr. Fenn would ever answer one of my questions, as confident as I believe I would feel there wouldn’t be much wiggle room, I’m sure he is clever enough to put my confidence to shame.

    • Drat! This question came out long after I had already looked up translations for just about every Spanish-named feature in the Rockies. This would have saved me a good amount of time! Ah well, at least I learned what “rayado” means.

    • Thanks, pdenver — hadn’t checked Jenny’s site yet today. That’s big news! Another book full of rabbit holes on its way!

    • YEA for Forrest – He says” After that maybe I will retire for sure, but I secretly hope not. f” Well, I won’t keep it a secret – If you do decide to retire, I will miss you greatly. Maybe the treasure will be found soon, then you can make your decision. JDA

  22. We’re looking for a needle in a haystack… but the haystack keeps getting bigger and bigger… I think I’ll run down to the hardware store and buy me a bigger pitchfork……. 🙂
    Looking forward to Forrest’s new book….
    Thanks pdenver for the heads up link to Jenny’s …
    Have a great day… until next time…see ya

    • Dear Forrest,
      In your book you mention ‘two can keep a secret if one of them is dead‘. Did someone else know the place you hid your Treasure Chest? ~ Carolyn

      No, just me. f

      While this question seemed logical [there’s a loop whole]… it was answered exactly the way the question was asked ~ No one knows the place ‘the chest’ is hidden at! Only fenn does.
      The question didn’t ask if others, that fenn knows or knew of, where at the same ‘place / location’ prior, or even after the chest was hidden there. In reference to; two can keep a secret if one is dead.

      On the flip-side… IF no body else knows of this place at all… Then those who have a solve revolving around Mr. W. Fenn, E. Sloane, Skippy or anyone else… ya might want to re-think that idea.
      I’m leaning toward the first and don’t give much thought to the latter.

      • Hi ken: partly because I think it casts serious doubt on the notion that the treasure chest is hidden in an area that is seasonally inaccessible. (I note that Forrest’s original quote was regarding “any weather” rather than “any season,” but he doesn’t correct Diggin’ Gypsy in her question.) But I think we have to keep in mind that just because ~Forrest~ can retrieve the chest in any weather doesn’t mean that we can. He knows exactly where it is, so even if it’s buried under a foot of snow, he can probably find it. I think it would be foolish to think that ~we~ can navigate to the chest’s location so precisely that even if obscured by snow we could do the same.

        • Thanks for your reply and thoughts Zap. I was just curious how you saw it. It could also just be a serious safety precaution…period.
          His comment could also mean a few other things depending on how one wants to see it.
          I do agree that his comment is vaguely presented at best…

  23. You have to wonder how quickly ff comes up with these replies that you can read so many ways and ultimately they take you in circles. For example, does this clearly say that you would not need a snowmobile -or- clearly say that if you “need” a snowmobile, that means you don’t have a snowmobile, so you might as well stay home? Very clever!

  24. After pondering Fenn’s reply to “Scout Around”…I believe he is simply saying…get a new solve if you need a snowmobile to get there.
    Yes….no?

    • If one pairs this reply with the first ….knowing precisely and retrieving in any weather; he could very well be implying…if you need a snowmobile to get to your solve…it ain’t right.
      That’s just my non biased interpretation.
      I think Fenn knows folks are going to venture forth no matter what. Nothing he says is going to change that. Snowmobiles will just get you further away from safety….

      • I think it translates to that if there’s enough snow for a snow mobile ride, then it would be hard to find it due to deep snow. Unless we knew precisely where it is, like FF does, we could dig it out from under the snow. Otherwise, canasta or hot chocolate is the order of the day. The only way I see precision being possible for searchers, is by coordinates. I don’t think coordinates can be determined before hand. IMO .

        Just my I dunno opinion. 🙂

        • Page 132 TTOTC “…containing nine clues that if followed precisely, will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure.”
          This is in reference to the poem. I have to say…I believe Fenn. He has also stated that if you know precisely where it is you could probably retrieve it in any weather. I believe that too….
          But…hot chocolate sounds pretty dang good !

          • Well, yes , following the 9 clues precisely will lead to the chest. Amazing it would be if the clues lead to a an exact 10 by10 inch spot of land. But I think in best case of closeness, would be an acre via the poem. The ” in any weather” is not meaning in inclusiveness to a foot of snow. I think he has said something to the effect that don’t go searching in the winter in the Rockies. At minimum say, if there is no accumulation of snow on the ground but it is snowing ( weather) it could still be seen/ found. IMO . There is a lot of trees that could fill an acre. If say the treasure chest was at a tree, then you would have to find that tree. Good luck with a foot or more of snow. That’s kind of my way of interpretation when combining what you combined.

            Precision is being rather precise 🙂

          • An added reference to my thought.

            FF quote:

            “Your destination is small, but its location is huge”

          • Alset….it’s all good. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. We all have our ideas and that is how it is.
            Your arguments are as good as any….

          • Ken.Nothin but a whole lot of sharing going on here. I sure hope I am not convincing anyone of anything here….yikes!.. haha.

            Cheers!

          • Yup and yup. Hot chocolate is pretty dang good during the winter. Maybe it’s easier to look for the leprechaun… I’ve been searching but no leprechaun yet

  25. Just to be a pain during the Holidays, I wanted to say that a snowmobile would not be possible in my solve, winter or summer. My solve area would destroy a snowmobile. Yet there is a path for a man or woman to walk right in.

    Jenny’s website crashed my computer with all the data transfers and handshakes going on. Then after about 10 minutes, I read the snowmobile comment.

    I need a Gyro-Copter for my area. It would make the whole thing so much easier. Anyway ken says “After pondering Fenn’s reply to “Scout Around”…I believe he is simply saying…get a new solve if you need a snowmobile to get there. Yes….no?

    Y E S

    Franklin

  26. Here’ another good one to dissect; it made a small ripple in the water…but not much else at the time…
    Featured Question 3/2/15 Mysterious Writings
    Forrest, you said you made two trips from your car to hide the treasure. Besides walking, did you use any other methods of transportation to get back and forth between the car and the hide? Thanks, Edgar
    “Edgar, your wording of the question prompts me to pause and wonder if I can answer it candidly, yet correctly. Were all of the evidence truly known, and I answered in the positive, you might say I was prevaricating , by some definitions of the word. And if I answered in the negative, you may claim that I was quibbling. So I will stay quiet on the subject. Thanks for the question anyway. f “

    • Hi ken;

      Thanks for bringing up this quote. I have pondered it more than once.

      The question: “Besides walking, did you use any other methods of transportation to get back and forth between the car and the hide? ” Thanks, Edgar

      Seems simple enough, but Forrest’s answer is far from simple.

      “Were all of the evidence truly known, and I answered in the positive, you might say I was prevaricating by some definitions of the word.”

      ” Were all of the evidence known…” What evidence has not been brought to the fore? Forrest said that he “walked” from the parking place to the hidey place. We have to accept this as fact. He did not say that he rode a horse or mule, or any other animal- He walked.

      What if he had a cart of some kind, or even a bicycle that he used to lighten the load? At 79 or 80, I doubt that he rode the bike, but he could have walked beside it, and let the bike carry the weight of the treasure or chest – couldn’t he?

      If he answers “YES, I used an other method of transportation (Transport)”… and yet walked beside a bike, one might accuse him of telling an untruth, because he did not “Just” walk.

      If he had of answered “NO” – What would we have thought?

      And then he says, “And if I answered in the negative, you may claim that I was quibbling.” – Quibbling because he didn’t actually “Ride” the bike, he walked beside it.

      What if he walked beside the bike for 3/4 of the distance, and carried the treasure and/or chest the last 1/4 of the way?

      If he says “Yes, I used another method of transportation (the bike) he is implying that he used it all the way, which he may not have”. – Would he be lying?

      If he answers “NO, I didn’t use another mode of transport” – and yet he did for part of the trip – would he be quibbling?

      The bike scenario makes sense to me – If not a bike, how about a cart of some kind?

      Yes, I know that there is a quote out there that says something to the effect that he carried some in a pack, and some in his hands – I think the above arguments still apply if he used the bike or cart part way, and carried the TC and treasure in a backpack or in his arms pert of the way.

      This is the only way I can make sense of this quote.

      Any other ideas out there? – JDA

      • Hi JDA: Your bike example is a good, workable idea. Here are a couple more. What if he has to get on his hands and knees at some point (perhaps to duck under some natural barrier) — is he still “walking” per se? Or what if there is a small amount of climbing that requires the use of his hands for balance while ascending, or occasionally sitting on his tailside a few times when descending? (Mind you, no precipices or extended steep climbing; think more something that a 3-year-old would need some help with, like a 3-foot step up or down.) I think these are possible scenarios that could lead to the complicated answer that Forrest provided.

    • I relate this Q&A in the same format of when he was asked if he used his own car or a rental. A yes or a no answer as being avoided and even said so as blatantly in the answer. With this one almost having a sense of- either answer might be too much insight , or he just walked from his car and there was no other method- kind of trivial in the asking. The questioning of whether he used something else after parking the car has lead to speculations such as: a horse, bike or boat. IMO .

      I think he just walked from his parked car to the final spot. Depending on where we might park , may not be at the same spot he parked in distance or starting point from where. From where we start and go from , then park, might seem conducive to maybe a horse, bike or boat bing used. But not from his journey point to and from parking. So he didn’t answer yes or no and he explained why .

      He didn’t ,but we could depending on where we parked. IMO

      I think his answer is leads a No, he didn’t use any other methods. IMO .

      Just my opinion.

        • JDA who says you’re going (physically) up a mountain trail [ for an extended length of time ]?
          Assumption?
          And it wasn’t 42 lbs. It was 1/2 and 1/2 as I recall Mr. Fenn saying.

          • OK, you got me – Try strapping 20+ lbs on a bike, and try walking it up a mountain trail – What tells me you’re going up a mountain trail – in two words – The poem. Thanks for asking – JDA

  27. Maybe a hop, skip, or jump was involved?
    Or maybe even an accidental slip/slide sped up the travels?
    Or a small climb?
    Even crawl?

    Just brainstorming. Know theyre relatively sucky ideas. But the type of thing could lead to prevaricating/quibbling on a yes/no answer while maintaining basic underlying truth in the “walking” to the spot comment….actually now I think about it I am a fan of a possible crawl. The rest are more sucky but still plausible.

  28. Polka dots—>Polka —>hop, skip, twirl with a little bow (or duck)at the end of the dance “step”.

    Sandy (aka Sally Colorado)

  29. All of the scenarios mentioned are distinct possibilities…and there are a ton more I suspect. What I find really interesting about this particular Q+A is that Fenn is dissecting the question like a surgeon and basing his answer on particular words/wording and the hinted definitions of words he uses. How many folks looked up “prevaricating”? How many folks took it further and looked up words used to describe prevaricating? How many folks went even further and saw how it all came back to quibbling depending on which word they went further with? My point with that was the difference between a noun and a verb…and how a noun can be verbed…some easily…some not so easily. Fenn’s a tricky guy, and given enough time…like the time he had to answer Edgar’s question…or the time it took to write the poem…he’s going to make it pretty interesting…even if he doesn’t come right out and answer the question. Is there a moral in his answer that searchers can equate something to his poem?
    Also…is Fenn alluding to more compelling evidence about how he walked/crawled/hopped on one foot/drove to hide the treasure? If so…are there hints somewhere describing that?

    • I’m in agreement with Forrest on this part of his answer to question 2: “My gut feeling is that someone will find it this summer.”

      • Has he ever said similarly optimistic things before? I’m asking those who’ve been around longer whether this “gut feeling” is new or has he said similar things in the past. I looked back through the last few years of six questions and don’t see any statements that are this definite, but am wondering if anyone knows of an ATF statement that is similar?

        • IMO he has. Scrapbook One Hundred Fifty Five…MAY 2016

          “I was very careful not to say I needed to be correct only 85% of the time. Read it again, middle of page 14. It doesn’t help to stretch a tangent. f”

          Concise, cryptic and misunderstood. Counsel to everyone. Yet, the closer to the sanctuary the better the advice.

        • Then there is; Featured Question with Forrest Fenn and The Thrill of the Chase Treasure Hunt: Lost Treasure Thoughts
          BY JENNY KILE · MARCH 22, 2017

          Dear Forrest,

          You often say imagination is more important than knowlege. Using your imagination, what do you think your hidden ‘Treasure Chest’ would be saying, if it could talk? Do you think it likes where it is at? Is it enjoying the weather? Does it feel lonely? Is it anxious to be found? or just what might it be thinking? ~thanks, Jenny

          “Jenny,
          Thanks for misspelling knowledge for me. I am sure the treasure chest relishes her guardianship of the rich objects that are concealed in her care, and over which she stands sentinel. They are still in hibernation, but will soon waken as the spring warmth gestures for the Long Tailed Ermine to start turning back into weasels, and the bears start peeking out. I think the gold will again become alert to the tromp and vibrations of hiking boots. Are they hopefully anticipating? I don’t know. f”

        • JW: as far as I know, NO. He has never been this specific about prospects for imminent discovery. Some could argue that he has hinted at it before (remember Catsup?), but this is the first time I’ve heard/read him give such a specific “gut-feeling” time-table.

          • Zap,
            Thanks for the info. I’m now over the initial shock of reading FF’s answers. That statement did put things in a different perspective for me.

        • JW, i think in late December 2016 he advised that whoever finds the TC should secure it in a vault for a month …think, prepare, … before deciding the next step to take.

          I gave up on the chase then. And have not followed the blogs closely until his latest ( and maybe last ) tv interview.

      • Hi Zaphod73491,
        IMO Mr Fenn is too modest and playing down the difficulties of solving his marvelous puzzle. My prediction based on what I have learned from the poem is that nobody will find it in 2018.

        • LtleIndianGrl: past performance certainly favors your prediction. But of course, past performance is no guarantee of future returns. 😉

      • Absolutely thrilling! Since Forrest has a love for Winston Churchill, someone needs to let him know about the new film “Darkest Hour”; excellent movie about the man , especially for the man that desires a personal interview with him…its the cat’s pajamas.
        Y’all be safe in those mountains now, ya hear?

    • pdenver – thanks for the post and the link. Based upon his comments, it sounds like the Chase may end this year. I really hope his gut feeling is right that someone will find it this Summer – although I have that feeling every year.

    • Interesting post and will need to spend some time on it. Some things caught my attention, as others have also noticed. A gut feeling is something that comes from deep inside, which can’t be explained; an intuition. Definitely understand those. I keep thinking I’ve read something over at Jenny’s about one shouldn’t have this or something like that, but could very well be wrong. I really can’t remember what I’ve read, but will have to search more into it. ‘Time waits for no one’ is another. Time doesn’t stand still. There may be more to this, especially with the mention of “time”.

      • pdenver: maybe these are what you mean…He said this in 2014: “The person that finds it,” Fenn said, “is going to be a person who thinks and plans and has an analytical mind and uses logic, not someone who has a hunch.”
        http://www.santafetravelers.com/santa-fe-blogs/forrest-fenn On tarryscant, I found, “playing a hunch is not worth much in the search and those who start out by looking for the blaze are wasting their time,” (7/14) and “a plan is better than a hunch.” (12/16) “Playing a hunch is nearly always fraught with disappointment, especially if the stakes are high.” (5/14)

        More and more tonight, I’ve been feeling he is having premonitions of his own upcoming death. Something about the tone of those responses. I hope he is feeling okay. I’ve been thinking of Carl Jung, the psychologist, who was convinced near the end of his life that the apocalypse was coming–but actually, the apocalypse ended up being his own passing.

        Maybe ff means someone has solved “The end is ever drawing nigh”…

        • Hello Lady V. Thank you for your help this morning. These may be the ones I was thinking of. Premonitions may be a possibility, although I don’t know if he’s worried. Sometimes I get them, and watch them come to be.

  30. I will be very happy for whomever finds the treasure chest this summer, particularly if it’s someone on this blog.

    However, I’ve felt very, very sad since reading ff’s six question response today.

    Will anyone else never read the solution and just pretend it’s not been found, so they can keep searching? 🙂

    • Just a thought, but even after the chest is retrieved, I think it would be awesome for folks to continue trying to solve the poem. The journey is worth it even if there is no pot of gold at the end someday imo.

  31. I’m sure the person or persons who are close don’t know how many are close. That would be a tough spot to be in, especially if you wouldn’t mind the Chase going on for a while longer. Some searchers really enjoy the Chase, but they also need the money. Good Luck to All Searchers!

  32. The “gut feeling this summer” comment is definitely titillating but I think the most informative line is: “…a physical presence is needed to complete the solve. Google Earth cannot help with the last clue.”
    Since GE “cannot” help he means that the hidey place is obstructed from an aerial view and the the last clue is only solvable (visible?) from ground level.

      • What he said previously was there’s not a picture of the chest on GE Kira. I think this new comment is referring to the hiding place.

        • Perhaps in 5 years GE can focus onto an object thatbis 10×10 with detailed clarity and the following occurs:
          August 1, 2022 @10am est, someone spots the chest on GE, which according to Fenn coukd be possible.
          Elsewhere in the RM, someone else without connections to the basement dweller.
          August 1 @ 330pm mtn, she solves the poem and is sitting with the chest.

          Who completed the solve? The person who spotted it or the person who has it?

          • Kira;

            Let’s hope that Forrest’s “Gut feel” about it being found this year will come true, so we will not have to worry about what GE can or can not do in five years 🙂 JDA

    • randawg,
      Yes, precisely my takeaway as well. I know F has said he won’t knowingly give out hints to anyone (paraphrased), but this does appear to be informative to the one/ones who is/are close. The question is, of course, who can knowingly say they are close?

      Joe

        • IMO Joe, it’s the very last line in the poem, but I have no hard proof I can offer myself yet. More work to do in that regard.

          It’s just a gut feeling I have based on my key word and other clues/hints I believe I have solved.

          Take care and good luck.

          Pinatubocharlie

        • Joe;

          “What phrase in the poem requires BOTG to solve?” For me, “The END is ever drawing nigh.” = “The end of your drive is ever getting closed” (My Interpretation) So, I park, and put BotG. So, No paddle – on (for me) requires BotG in order to solve – but that is just me, others will disagree – JDA

      • Oh, I guess there are at least two questions we should ask ourselves: the one above and, “What phrase in the poem requires BOTG to solve?”

        Joe

      • Personally, I found this 6 questions very interesting in a confirmation bias-y sort of way.

        I mean, he thinks it will be found this summer. I’m putting BOTG this summer.

        Boom.

    • His comment fits with the , paraphrasing, there is one thing that searchers have not considered in a winning solve. That the poem does not solve all the clues. We don’t know how many clues f is talking about, so we have to take this in the context it is being said.
      How many clues does the poem solve? In trying to solve the poem, did the searcher solve all the 9 clues?
      There are a lot of solves out there that the searcher was trying to decipher/solve clues. Does that mean that any solve, where the searcher has solved all the clues by using the poem, or thinks they have, are on false information? Or it is just wrong? We are suppose to leave with confidence, how when we don’t know the clues before hand? Trying to solve the clues has now become “not” the thing to do. Zap, see our discussion up-thread. Cannot solve all the clues from home. Thank you f. The thing is, we cannot say what clues cannot be solved. He says the first couple can be. Does that mean the exact 1,2,3, etc, or, does that say 2,3,4. or maybe 6,7? It’s still vague, and has to be treated as much. Just to say the first couple doesn’t really say anything. We don’t know is wwwh is in that comment. Even though it is the first clue, 2 and 3 are also the first couple, id wwwh skipped? We cannot say with the info he has given.
      Now, the only thing we know is: line 5 is a clue, the blaze is a clue, and the solve of the poem will give you an “X” on a map. What would this lead to think? You cannot solve all the clues, so how would you get to “X”? I say, and have always said, coordinates. If I could solve the poem and get a spot, and know that my path will yield what he was referring to as clues, then I could have confidence, even though I cannot solve for all the clues.
      Also, with the 9th clue needing to be there, well of course. But, can it only be solved when there? Again, he leaves that open. The poem can tell you what to do, but you have to do it out there. He just says you need BotG.
      Your solve can still solve clues from the poem, the poem just cannot solve all the clues. This puts all the solves that the searcher has solved all the clues from the poem to rest. Trying to guess at what a clue is and solving it just is not so. You don’t have the info to do that, your solve is wrong. If you have not gone BotG, you cannot look at the poem to solve clues, but, you can be confident in finding a spot, and finding the chest. Sounds like coordinates to me. ( I won’t say “I told you so”, but I’m thinking it) :)`
      No numbers, huh? Smiling from ear to ear….

      • charlie,

        I completely disagree with your thoughts on coordinates. as there is nothing in the poem that refers to any type of numbers.

        I strongly believe the coordinates can only be given after the TC has been found.

        As always my opinion.

        CharlieM

        • Line 21: So hear me all and listen good.
          So “he” (ar) “me= Some
          all and l (is ten) go od.= A+L+L+L is ten go od.
          Some A+L+L+L = 10, GO (ODD).
          A=7, L=1
          A=1,L=3,
          A=4,L=2.
          There is a reason he used the words he used, in this case, it is the word “good”. If this is not how to break the line down, then why not use “well”? Rhyme, sounds good? Maybe because if this line says what it says, he wanted the “even” solution kicked out. Leaving the odds.

          Look at “no paddle up your creek”, or better yet, just “no paddle up”.
          No “P”, (add) le up.

          These are just two examples on how to “fish” out numbers within the poem. Breaking down a line by following the instructions.

          To say no numbers is to take away the most obvious way to find an “X” on a map and resort into trying to solve clues.
          He has misspelled words, a pilot so knows numbers/vectors/coordinates, military so abbreviations, and has said,”-It is fun to arrange words in such a way that you have to smile at the end of a sentence.” He likes to play. With all that insight, I wouldn’t discount the very likely possibility that numbers, not only are in the poem, but need to be.
          With the poem now not solving all the clues, it’s not a point to point place thing anymore. Somewhere, someway, a number system is needed. To count something.
          If you give the argument of a grave site or headstone, (go to this cemetery, to this name, turn right to this name, then left to the headstone you’re looking for), there see. “no numbers”, you miss the fact that you have given all clues to get there. That is now not the case with the chase. A number system is needed, however you find it, with letters being the poem, it’s obvious that there has to be letter values.
          IMO…….

          • charlie,

            What an average can understand, complicated is a lot of work. Didn’t F say recently, simplify?….[not a quote]

            I guess…….each to their own. 🙂

            As always my opinion

          • CharlieM, actually, Fenn’s comment falls inline. I’ve found, IMO, with the numbers, he simplifies. Like 9+7=16, 1+6=7.
            He simplifies to the one digit. Also, say you get 11. That could mean 2, or to. 20 could be 2 or too. He very well may mean the numbers, to simplify. Lol, never ending, huh? Seems like there is an answer to almost everything.

  33. WMIGo,

    “But tarry scant with marvel gaze,”

    Clue #9

    Boots on the ground, boots on the ground —- Definitely, Definitely!

    Forrest was generous with this answer…

    GCG

  34. If the blaze is the last clue which I think it is, then you can’t see it from GE. Sure can see your creek & water high, not sure about heavy loads. There must be hints in his books to help find the first few clues even though Indy can’t get closer than the first 2.

    BOTG required.

      • The last stanza has got my attention but I don’t know which words or lines are hints or clues. I believe the last words of each line may hold the key.
        good
        cold
        wood
        gold

        • Kraft,

          IMO all of these words provide info but are not clues.

          Good – means thorough or rightly so listen thoroughly and interpret rightly the clues…

          Cold – is a stronger hint as to what will be encountered in the location of the treasure.

          Wood – although JDA has a special meaning and location based on this word; unfortunately it is simply a metaphor for the wilderness and that there are pine trees in the vicinity of the treasure chest…

          Lastly; Gold – is synonymous for the treasure however there are several things inside Indulgence which are NOT gold … … Hmmm!

          GCG

  35. I’m not going to lie, I’m nervous about that,gut feeling comment.I’m noy ready for the chase to end 🙁 For some reason I sleep good at night knowing that chest is out there somewhere.

  36. This page is for comments related only to Jenny’s website…
    It is not for discussions about the poem or the clues..
    Those discussions all have their own dedicated pages…
    I will begin removing comments about things not related to Jenny’s blog …

      • Can Jenny dance though? https://ibb.co/eAfceb
        Jamie might talk Dal in wearing that speedo he has if we are to start dancing around. Dal has a “no-trade” clause…
        (does saying Jenny still count?) She does have a nice site, but this is the original site, everyone started here first. I think most found other sites when Dal’s site went down for a stint. “But they pull me back in”…

        • Charlie-
          I don’t remember this site ever being down..Most folks that don’t show up here don’t like the way it’s moderated or they were banned.

          • Although it has been horribly slow and wobbly some days…but I hope we have that fixed now…although we are still working at some BTS repairs…in an attempt to make it less susceptible to those database errors folks get…

          • Your doing a fine job Dal, slowing down from time to time is good. heck, how can ya stop and smell the roses if we’re running all the time?
            Have a great day… see ya

          • It was just for a while. From what I remember. I went to Mike’s site for awhile because this site was down. I think it was under construction because when I came back, whole new look. I would say somewhere in the middle of 2011?
            If you say it wasn’t down I believe it. Probably just a hiccup, I just remember this was the site to get any and all info from, (except where the chest is), being moderated or bad, that’s their problem, nobody can say this is not the place to start if you are going to jump into the chase. I personally don’t think anybody would actually have a solve if it wasn’t for all the contribution done here. At least not yet, the early wealth of info here was just what the people needed to get stuck in this chase and basically give up the last 7+ years of their lives, lol, joking. I don’t think anybody that has been BotG has ever complained about there vacations, (except the obvious, of course). Can’t imagine what would happen if this site just went down. So many would be hurting, like every kid when Sony went down. The gamers were going to riot….Still, good job Dal and Goof.

  37. He said that he had a hunch that it would be found this year. I also had a hunch, sort of. I had a dream that Forrest, Dal, Cynthia, and me went to retrieve the chest. I woke up and figured that I may have thought of the correct location, but was too disabled to get there myself. hmmm

    Now which of my spots is it? Duck creek near Grayling? Dinwoody Canyon near Legends Rock? La Cueva Tent Rocks?
    Which ever dream spot is true, you are all invited to share the treasure. And put some personal treasure in the box so that it will be hid again.
    Deal?

    • Ha Ha, Michael, I love the petroglyphs at Dinwoody. Lots of good ones of “owls” which fit my idea of the blaze (Petroglyphs… Is the blaze a single object? In a word, YES.) But I like Duck Creek at Grayling, too. Hmmmmmm………..

    • Michael, Let us know if you wake up as the reincarnation of Captain Kidd!
      I may be alone in thinking that Boat is a strange name for a mountain in Montana. Or wondering if that broken & overturned vessel near Hebgen dam is a hint? I’ve some thoughts on it at the end of the comments in Armchair Adventures / Weeds & Roots. It might be worth someones review. OS2

  38. Forrest stated that he didn’t think that anyone had told him the clues in the right order. (May 18, 2017 Post “The Lure” screening Q&A). Maybe that person got the order correct since then, which led to his gut feeling comment.

    • IMO – The information or picture would perhaps be public knowlege. Again IMO – he would not make a statement directed just to an individual.

  39. “My gut feeling is that someone will find it this summer”

    Why summer?
    Not spring
    Not fall
    Not even a blanket statement of 2018
    But summer
    Is indulgence location only accessible in summer?

    • It’s almost like he’s giving a hint to what season it’s going to be found.
      Mud is not mud if it’s dry – spring
      He has persuaded us from winter and late fall at times when the temps dip.

      Summer it is.

          • That statement to me means either someone contacted him with the correct solve and when they would be searching (sometime in summer) or, indulgence location is only even accessible from late June to late sept, possibly only after spring run off?
            The end is ever drawing nigh (winter, spring) there’ll be no paddle up your creek gonafter spring run off is over)
            Just heavy loads and water high (the winter snow and spring run off) just can mean “very recently, or past) … I think fenns telling us we can’t even find the thing until summer

        • Spallies;

          For me, the key word is “find” – not retrieve. I do believe that it could be found in almost any season, and almost any weather. Retrieving it I see as a different challenge. I think that weather conditions COULD become a factor in retrieval – JMO – JDA

          • I wouldn’t recommend attempting a search if there is any chance of snow. I drove up last year and ended up hitting the first snow fall of the year. There was only a few inches but it’s tough searching and I only ended I cold and wet. It was nice to see the massive herds of bison in Yellowstone at that time though. I even saw a black bear.

            I’m leaning toward FF making that comment because the vast majority searchers search in summer so the odds are higher if it being found then.

        • I don’t know where it is but many of us think we know where it is and doesn’t help us with his comment.

          Maybe, probably but definitely not for all that have tried.

          The only way you would know precisely or exactly where his treasure is hidden, if you have found it or hid it and none can say that except for F.

          Summer it is.

    • We all have our colored glasses on… mine say that he may have said it because closures that have been in place for a couple years in my search area will be lifted this summer. If it is a percentages game though, my experiences suggest that mid to late summer in general are best for searching. Even after the snow and the mud have gone the rivers and creeks stay high and difficult to cross. There may have been some searchers with the right ideas who were deterred by the wrong conditions.

      • I agree, the area maybe accessible, I mean most of the Rockies are still accessible even by over snow vehicles at this time, but indulgences precise location may not be accessible until the snow melt has subsided and everything’s dried out… possibly in a creek that swells during spring?

        • Magpie, i was wondering about that summer ending of the search
          too, and was thinking snow on the ground melts in spring in most of the 4 states. Your previous posts above enlightened me. Might not be ff’s reason but good enough for me. Thanks.

  40. Just out of curiosity I noticed Forrest Fenn linked his name to his website: oldsantafetradingco.com
    http://mysteriouswritings.com/six-questions-with-forrest-fenn-and-the-thrill-of-the-chase-treasure-hunt-double-charmed/#comment-243952
    “I wish I could go back to that place again. f”

    I have seen other comments by Forrest with the URL “uri” linked to his name when commenting as well as other commenters.

    Thought it was odd to see him link his homepage with his name and don’t have the time to dig deep to see if he has done this before.

      • Theres the “uri” again.
        I’m aware of that pdenver, I’m not aware of when and where he commented on any site linking his website to his name as he did on Sunday Feb 4th 2018.
        I only see United Refrigeration on Jenny’s site.

        • The “uri” is a technical thing on the site. Others have it too. Hover over Chesney or Jeremy P.’s names. Not sure what causes it, but there’s no hidden meaning. 🙂

          • When I was helping Jenny with her website, I had seen the uri problem. It is not a big issue. I think there is a problem with the website linking script. I didn’t have time to dig further into the code. At least her website is running smoother. I am sure United Refrigeration likes the traffic.

          • It means that at some point I commented when the website field was pre-filled with http://URI. Doesn’t look like it is that way anymore, but it was at some point and it’s probably stored in a cookie on my browser. I’m just too lazy to remove it. It’s not harmful. It just means “put website address here”. Like MartinS says, no hidden meaning.

        • Yes, the URI issue is not a big problem and can be fixed.
          Dal, I can tell you that one of the main reasons your website doesn’t load for everyone during heavy traffic is because the pictures you place on the website like the one on top is NOT optimized. There are many analyzers that will assist to identify which ones are the culprit. Your website load rating is very low.
          http://www.imageoptimizer.net is a good site to use. Hope this will help out. There are other issues as well with some of your scripts but I would work on the images first. Just my opinion.

          • Thanks guys.
            My thought was more about Forrest typing in his website address on that comment for the 1st time.

            I’m not sure he has ever done that before. I think it’s important if this was the 1st time he did that.

            Click on his name and you go straight to his website where there’s lots of info and stories that will help.

            I need to do more research and pay more attention to what’s on his site.

      • I’m still searching to see if he has done it before and popping back to his website when I get bored.
        Maybe it means he’s getting smarter and wiser as he gets older.

        Another thing bothering me is his comment or answer:
        “I am rarely told exactly where people are searching so I don’t know if they are getting closer or not. My gut feeling is that someone will find it this summer.”

        Is it possible that the “gut feeling” is about the rare searchers that told him exactly and he doesn’t know about the ones who didn’t?

        The guy always keeps me guessing

        • Perhaps the TC is in the Never Summer Mountains. In which case, “…it will be found this summer,” means, of course, it won’t and can’t. LOL.

        • I just remember when I use to be with dancing on the stars. Its a lot of fun watch. Moving here and there and everywhere. I suppose it was the effort, day in and day out.

          An Indian Scout and A Saint

  41. Peggy: “Everyone is all worked up over some “gut feeling” you said you have Forrest. I think I know what that “gut feeling” is. Have you been eating my spices and drinking pickle juice again? I just knew it! We’re almost out of Thyme. Stay out of my Spice cabinet will you?”

  42. I sent him an email a few weeks ago, just for the hell of it, where i gave him my analysis of the clues and the exact area I planned to explore this summer. I am proud of my solve and I want to share it but I cant because if it’s correct then everyone knows my spot. So I shared it with forrest. he never emailed me back. I didnt expect him to in any case. his comment on not being able to solve the last clue without being there does help me out though since its something im kinda stuck on. Maybe he did read my email and thats why he has a gut feeling 🙂 a guy can dream.

    • Maybe Fenn knows that a searcher has been close to the right area. Either through E-mails, electronic surveillance, or whatever.
      Or maybe not. I think the “gut feeling” comment is an attempt to jump start the chase season and get all the searchers out searching.
      Although he has said he don’t care when it’s found, his bewilderment in the Nightline interview tells me he’s ready for the chest to be found and the Chase to be over.
      JMO of course.

      • I agree, I beleive he’s just trying to light a fire under people, I think he wants the treasure found but doesn’t want to just give it away… pretry sure everyone who sent fenn an email in the past few months with details of their solve think Hes talking directly to them lol

  43. pdenver,

    Though I periodically visit Jenny’s thank you for posting the link for the latest 6 questions.

    As I’ve posted before, I DO NOT discount anything he writes or says, firmly believing there very well could be some silver lining in terms of hint(s) to go along with the bracelet he would like to have back IF the box is ever found in his lifetime.

    Have one or more answers led me closer to the chest? No. Have one or more answers served to confirm I’m on the right path? IMO, yes. We are all aging and with age comes strength and power loss. No revelation there. That said, perhaps he can no longer drive. I say that because at his age my father had to give it up because of his reaction time.

    Totally different subject, but if I am the lucky one, I’m going to make a contribution to PBS. They produce many educational, theatrical, and musical shows that only serve to further our understanding of humanity, culture, and nature. Thank you PBS!

    One last thing. Thank you for the wonderful trip you’re taking us on Forrest. And speaking of trips, my wife just booked us on a cruise-tour to Alaska this summer just before my next search to _ _ _. And we promise not to leave any environmental marks on the Alaskan landscape Forrest.

    Please take care,

    Pinatubocharlie

  44. To tell a truth within a lie / To tell a lie within a truth

    The answers are the questions.
    taunting, teasing, tempting
    At most…very entertaining for both the cat and the mouse.
    -guy-

  45. I noticed at the top of Jenny’s 6 questions to F on Feb 4, the photo shows Jenny sitting with Forrest and he is holding small cards about the size of a biz card. This raises a question, why is he holding the cards during the Q&A? He’s 87, sometimes when one gets older the mind starts forgetting things. I wonder if this is the case.

    I thought it odd and maybe there is nothing to worry about. Mainly I’m simply wondering why.

    • Probably in order to protect the person who finds it of what is almost going to happen. There is going to be a camp of people who would accuse any further answer of being helpful when I believe someone does not need it. From several of the answers given recently, watching Forrest dance around some questions and then avoided the 200 feet and how many clues have been solved mixed with the gut feeling. Someone has been close and most likely has solved up to clue 8 and possibly mentioned 9 and I believe has been closer than 200 feet and knows it.

  46. Imo, all nine clues have been understood and now – to complete the solve – the deserving searcher must go one more time to the final location to retrieve the chest. I believe the location is only accessible in summer and by the beginning of August at latest, we will hopefully hear the wonderful news. That’s my gut feeling.

    To the searcher who has cracked it imo, well done, bravo, don’t look back, and the world is your oyster. Be humble and be kind – always.

    • If your opinion is true then there is also another possibility. All nine clues have been understood but the person of understanding is not sure they want to actually retrieve the treasure. Just a possibility considering the answer to Q5
      “There are many avid searchers looking for the treasure who are not blinded by its value.”

      This may also account for “gut feeling” instead of another more positive response to the question.

      My gut tells me if I hit my hand with a hammer it will hurt, but I won’t know if I’m right till I decide to swing the hammer.

      Just an observation.

    • Someone has indeed solved all the clues . Surely this is a tale which will transfix and enchant even the most cynical. I doff my battered fedora to that individual and bow even lower to the genius of Forrest Fenn.

      • Stephan do you think someone is just waiting for mr Fenn to say all clear go get it or do you think the searcher doesn’t really know for certain and have you been searching the past years

        • Hello Old Choctaw,
          Mr. Fenn knows something definitive, I am sure, to be so unequivocal in his words. And yes, I am still very much in the hunt, and thankful for the remarkable journey of the last 6 years.

    • Twingem,
      Very well stated. In your last paragraph, I don’t believe it’s possible for any searcher to KNOW s/he/they are the cause of F’s gut feeling. I’m guessing some will presume they are the one(s), but it remains only a guess until the chest is found. In spite of F’s gut feeling, I am still planning a final search. Who knows, I may make an annual sabbatical for nostalgia’s sake.

      Sage advice in your last paragraph – your words echo my sentiments as well for that fortunate searcher. In nearly all things, the heart is the best guide for the mind.

      Joe

      • I’m with you Joe.

        I see a whole lot of brain power going into analyzing Forrest’s latest answers. Does any of that even matter? I remain focused on the poem and planning my next trip. I say go out and enjoy one last hurrah this upcoming season. It ain’t over till the fat lady sings. And even if and when “The Thrill of The Chase” is over I feel that will just free me and my family up to visit countless other breathtakingly beautiful places ruled out early on as possible final resting places in “The Chase.”

        My wife and girls have decided to join me on my last hurrah this upcoming season. “The Thrill of the Chase” was the spark that got my whole family out into the wilderness exploring years ago.

        I cherish those memories and all since. I want to extend a personal thank you to Forrest for lighting the spark that got us all up of the couch. Finding the treasure chest is not the real treasure. It’s the memories one makes along the way. And all who have participated get to partake in the spoils. So thank you Forrest for creating the adventure of our lifetime. I feel blessed simply to have been a participant.

        • DM,
          Yes, I agree we should carry on normally until there’s something official. Good on you and your family. I believe you epitomize precisely what Forrest had in mind.

          It’s been – and will always be – a wonderful journey, and I thank Forrest and Peggy often knowing few things in a marriage are done in a vacuum. As each of us continues on in life, what we carry today will forever be a part of us. The choices we’ve made throughout The Chase will continue to shape and forge our path in life.

          Joe

  47. Joe, Stephan, and Ronald – thank you for your thoughtful insights.

    I would imagine that for the searcher who understands all the clues, retrieving the chest comes with heavy loads beyond the chest itself. The concern that maybe it will make Forrest sad, that crazy and jealous searchers will try to exact revenge and claim they are owed something (even though nothing in life is ever owed anyone), that the secret location will be ruined by curious searchers who didn’t find it, that all of their privacy will be invaded with the fame that may result, etc, etc., etc. Going silently into the night is sounding pretty good! Imo – nobody is owed the completed solve, location, or name of the searcher who finds it. All of that would be from the graciousness of the finder and Forrest.

    What I can wait for should anything become public beyond it’s been retrieved, is the true understanding of the selfless effort and energy and brilliance Forrest put into this. The saintly restraint Forrest has displayed as people have tried to use him to get closer to the treasure without doing the work; bashed him because they haven’t understood how to solve the poem, and the “OMG how absolutely awful I’ve been” lesson/realization for those who have put Forrest and his family through the mud with accusations and negativity when the should have been looking in the mirror. Those who in pursuit of money treated other humans with such hostility will hopefully change their ways and just leave others alone while focusing on making positive change in the world – because imo, this is the heart of the school we all enrolled when we voluntarily signed up and participated in the chase. How each of us has fared in the school is 100% our own doing. Any effort to blame anyone but oneself for anything related to the chase, imo, is just so sad for the lack of self reflection.

    It’s been the education of a lifetime for me and I am eternally grateful to Forrest. We need more Forrest’s in this world imo. His 6 answers, to me, echo the above.

    Peace to all! Never stop searching as Forrest says. Money or no money, the chase doesn’t have to end for anyone after the chest is retrieved this summer.

    • I’m not sure it will be found by beginning of August but that is just a thought in the back of my mind.

      Most of those looking for the chest seem to be very gracious towards the thought of someone other than them finding it, and are already expressing there congratulations to this person/persons (its as if they feel it will not be them who solves the clues and finds the box) I find this quite interesting.

      It seems there is not much contention anymore over who’s solve, thoughts, ideas and opinions on the clues are correct or not correct. This is just my observation as I would not dare say with any confidence or try to realize the true intentions of others. It is intriguing to me to ponder, will the finding of the treasure will be as celebrated as much as the hiding of it was regardless of when it is found or who finds it. Do you think there will be an annual event (such as fennboree) in celebration of the person who solves and retrieves the chest? Or will it depend on who actually finds it?

      I am very glad to see some (most of) of the thoughts towards others being so positive.

      Just my observations.

      • Ronald;

        How can one answer your question.

        Do I think that there will be an annual event? Probably not. One event – possibly two, at most.

        We are so used to instant news, and something always comes along tomorrow that erases the “Big News” of today. The “Big News” of the finding will be forgotten in a VERY short time, I would think.

        Who will find it? Will it be a very gracious person, willing to share the laurels with many? Or will it be a self-centered snob who says he/she did it all on their own? How “Warm Hearted” or “Cold Souled” will he/she be? This will determine much how the Fenn-world accepts or rejects the finder.

        How much will the finder share? Will he/she “Tell-all” either through the blogs, TV appearances, or through publishing a book?

        I do not think that there is an easy answer to your question. Like everyone, I hope that it is me who finds the treasure – If it is, I will TRY to be as gracious as I can be, reveal as much as I can – yet make a buck or two off of my book. Is that selfish? Maybe – JDA

        • JDA
          Thanks for answering my question. Much appreciated.

          I would never call anyone selfish or not that I do not personally know, so I cannot answer your question.

          I was more curious about people’s reactions to the treasure being found than wether it’s a nice person or not. I gather it makes a difference. Thanks

          Good luck in your search.

        • I might have misread part of this post because I think it was well written and makes a lot of sense. The part that confuses me is why would the person be a snob if they didn’t share or if they say they did it on their own? If one single person figured it all out went out by themselves went to the mountains by themselves spending their own money wouldn’t that be doing it by themselves? Maybe I misunderstood I’m just trying to better understand that portion because I think the rest of the post was great.

        • Wow! Sorry, JDA, but I can’t disagree more. I won’t regurgitate what Twingem has succinctly stated in recent comments on this page because, IMO, those assessments are spot-on. I will say there is, IMO, one and only one obligation of the finder to the “Fenn-world” and to the world in general: a reasonably timely notification – and this is best done through Forrest, IMO. What the finder does from a privacy perspective is completely personal, and that decision deserves respect.

          Other than that, the finder’s other obligation is to Forrest, and how that is defined is strictly a matter between the finder and Forrest.

          Joe

          • I would like to add to my comment above as it comes across rather harshly upon review, and that was not my intent – sorry JDA.

            I was trying to say no matter who the finder is, the rest of us are entitled to nothing. It would be nice if we are informed, as I mentioned, but beyond that I don’t believe we should have any expectations, and the finder AND Forrest (and family) should be left alone. If either desires something other than that, they will seek it and we will likely know it, but we should respect the wishes of the finder and Forrest – whatever they may be.

            All the above, of course, presumes F’s gut feeling is correct. He couldn’t be wrong – could he? 🙂 Just stirring the pot…

            Joe

          • Joe;

            No offense taken. Not sure what you are disagreeing with, but that is OK – Happy hunting and TRY to STAY SAFE – JDA

      • I personally think most people who are involved will be very supportive and happy for whoever finds it. Personally I would like to see it end so I can stop thinking about it because I can’t make heads or tails of anything. I will congratulate the victor and give them praise they deserve solving something so many people tried and couldn’t and as I have seen I believe many others will as well. I also believe there will be a seperate and smaller camp but a camp that is more vocal and outspoken that will try to create some type of controversy around the finding. There will also be people who diminish the achievement and say nasty things about how it was lucky or wasn’t hard at all. It comes along with the terriitory I guess that any accomplishment faces some sort of negativity. Remember that a lot of people put enormous effort, time and money and in my opinion the biggest driver of some of the negativity that will come about is some people staked there self esteem in regards to how smart they are on this and not finding it will be a big blow. But I think all and all most searchers are going to be congratulatory and genuinely happy for whoever gets it done and I personally think that someone has solved this thing. Good day and happy hunting if you have a solve!!!

        • Beefstew,

          With your last few comments, i’m becoming a fan of your intuition, foresight, intellect and graciousness. For those qualities you deserve a ‘gold medal’.

          Wishing you the best and hope you tighten your solve before summer. It could very well be a photo finish.

    • Those are two great posts Twingem.

      We are all imperfect and we all make mistakes. It’s too easy to blame others when the fault often lies within ourselves.

      Let’s appreciate what we have been given and what we have learned along the way.

      • I agree wholeheatedly. I know I’m not perfect. My wife reminds me daily. But in all seriousness in any and every situation every party has a lesson. The only learning though comes from the ones who choose to focus on their own lessons. In my life I have learned and continue to learn. I now believe those who do not look at themselves chose to stay stuck traveling in endless circles while those who live with self reflection and humility get to travel on roads not easy opened or discovered.

  48. Well stated Twingem. I tend to believe people are as good as we believe they are, but I’m ever the optimist. There will always be a few who will have feathers ruffled, but only for a short time, as JDA mentioned. In our current age of technology, our attention span is often short.

    I think one of the greatest lessons our current life has to offer that isn’t followed a whole lot is that there is nothing in this life that is our business except our own. Forrest graciously chose to gift strangers with what I think is anyone’s most valuable treasure- his memories and how they shaped his belief system and molded him into the person he is. Whether we “hear” and “listen good” to all that he has shared- the decades of experience, wisdom, humor, and much more is up to each of us. I think we all need to view ourselves as the “finder”, because I believe we have all “found” something in our search. As always, happy hunting. To add my own twist on a recent movie quote (I can do that, right? 🙂 ) . May the search and the journey be ever in your favor, and may you always share the wealth in whatever form it takes!

    • KK,

      “I think we all need to view ourselves as the “finder”, because I believe we have all “found” something in our search.”

      You quite literally choked me up!

      What does it say of our culture, our lives, & ME – that it takes a real life treasure hunt to “turn us on!” To boil our blood, supercharge imaginations and inspire massive learning…

      When my son was about to turn 5, we wanted to throw an extra special birthday party and we final arrived at a theme — A Treasure Hunt! To that end we decided to create a thematic event, making everyone of the kids who attended pirates for the day, complete with bandannas, tattoos, eye-patches and other pirate paraphernalia.

      To make the event complete we created an authentic antique looking treasure map out of a paper grocery bag and had our son’s uncle in full pirate leather coated & sworded garb, deliver the map (complete with pirate tales)…

      Unbeknownst to all at the party, my wife and I had gone to a consignment shop and found this old beat up travel trunk which we thought made the most spectacular TREASURE CHEST… It wasn’t much of an indulgence but still a great find. Then we decided to fill it with plastic gold coins of all kinds but we quickly learned that this would be impossible from not only a budget stand point but the local party store didn’t even possess enough inventory to fill the trunks top tray — you’d be AMAZED at just how many it actually takes to fill even just the top packing tray in those old trunks…

      In the end we had to visit a couple different places and augment the top tray with other party favors, for all the kids to go home with pirate bootie!!!

      The moment I’ll never forget, is when this procession of children banditos finally laid eyes on the Treasure Chest and the look on their faces when the lid was opened — complete pandemonium.

      Read the books to your children, read the poem to them.
      After all, we are really pirates at heart looking to discover the treasures life has to offer — even if for a while we’d forgotten.

      Thanks Forrest,

      GCG

      • GCG, thank you for sharing your story about your son’s treasure hunt birthday party! I know that gave him and his friend’s lasting memories! Funny you mention that, it was something we also did for my oldest son’s birthday party one, although it was a more “traditional” neighborhood scavenger hunt, and he was going into 7th grade.

        It was also participating in a scavenger hunt decades ago when I was in elementary school, that fueled my love for hunting. For me, it is the process of figuring clues out and solving the that I love.

        I handed my TOTC book off to my youngest, a nine year old last night, and had him read some of the stories. It was awesome to hear him giggling out loud at the stories of younger FF that he could relate to. Precious moments, indeed.

      • I am so appreciative for the great and genuine reflections from folks in this thread. This makes me believe many have heard Forrest’s radio transmission! It sounds like a beating heart to me.

        • I think we will all look back at our time in life and remember the places we have been and things we have done. We may not be able to go back to all the places we have been for lack of remembering where they were so many years ago. This will make no difference in the stories that we tell others of these times and places for the stories are ours to tell as we remember them. The only true tragidy would be to not tell them at all.

  49. There’s sure a lot of fait accompli prognostications within the interpretation of “gut feeling” said by FF. IMO. In my understanding of the meaning of a ‘gut feeling’ , it is a response to ‘past’ experiences and knowledge in the now memory reference ‘triggered’ in someone. It’s a trigger based on past experience(s), not so much a statement for a certain future predictor .IMO . It doesn’t totally mean ‘foreseeing’ ,to me, but denoting an increase in the awareness- his awareness of what is being deduced by people . IMO .

    I just interpret this ‘gut feeling’ as being a potential because it’s always a potential- but it’s increasing. Every year the potential naturally increases with insightful chatter within the blogs. It’s possible that anyone could have interpreted a clue or more , more definitively than has ever been stated before and not a whole complete solve-to him in an email or on the blogs. Just could be a strong enough idea by someone to trigger a ‘gut feeling’ about the potential of a solver solving more -in a timeline- maybe being this summer. So,the potential for someone finding- it-timeline may be quickening. Doesn’t necessarily mean someone is of the complete stage yet.IMO.

    Nice way to trigger a refocus of the Searcher chatter realm though 🙂 IMO.

    How did you ‘feel’ when you first read what he said?

    “Time waits for no one”.

    Pitter patter trigger to refocus the chatter. IMO.

    Just my opinion.

    • I have felt that nearing the end of last year that the phrase of some of his answers were in order to side step the question of someone being close or that they had potentially solved the last clue or was close to solving the last clue. This most recent set of QandA has only added more evidence to this fact , that is saying evidence in my opinion because that is all this is. I only wish it was me but congrats if someone did it.

    • When I read that particular line, I felt confident a message was being sent. It was hysterical and very smart imo.

      The sands of time are down to just grains. The grains of wood. I think we are in line 23 – if you are brave and in the wood. One line left imo for someone. And I think that “someone” probably wants to know Forrest is ready for it to be found.

      There are things we know that cannot been seen imo. That is what gut feeling means to me.

      • Twingem,
        Do you think F’s gut feeling is like a bad stomach ache or more like butterflies (anticipation)? I’m not trying to make a joke, I’m just asking if you believe his ‘gut feeling’ is in the positive or negative sense. Just curious.
        Joe

        • This is totally a guess and only my opinion. I would imagine it is mixed for him. Likely total joy that someone heard his beacon or radio transmisiion, so to speak. He “…knew his friends were listening.” Likely laughing joyfully that he created an incredibly complex masterpiece that worked to stump folks for so many years, but will end so that he can enjoy the finale “…not a day passes that I don’t wonder if I can make it happen like its supposed to.” I imagine he feels understood at last by the person who has solved it.

          I’d imagine there is sorrow as well for him. His quest is coming to a new place (some might call it an end, but I don’t). The behavior if searchers must be so sad for him to witness, yet the behavior of others likely restored some faith.

          I really don’t kbiw Joe. My biggest concern is correct Forrest may lose the thrill of his chase once it is found. It is only a concern if it concerns him I suppose, and I don’t know the answer to that.

          I hope he will be so happy and joyful that tears will be streaming…done heavy loads lifted from him and now waters high.

          All imo. I wish Forrest would do a little section providing more depth on his feelings of the chest being retrieved. What will he think and feel when its all said and done? Will he want the finder to tell his story? Etc.

          • Twingem,

            Well said, you’re really on a roll. I think all of us searchers have mixed feelings about Jenny’s Q and A (my heart maybe skipped a little). It seems this chase is coming to an end, but I believe there will be others for some. IMO, Forrest reminded us how to dream again.

            Ron.

          • Twingem-
            I really enjoy this post… I imagine the soul who figures this out will have enjoyed the dance of wit enough to play it out to the end as it was meant to be. The Chase is the thrill, after all… and my treasure all along. I, for one, wouldn’t mind wondering for a long time to come where it might have gone… Good luck to all – may you all find what you Seek.

          • Twingem,
            Your eloquent comments have helped me put these new statements into the larger context they deserve. Thank you.

            “I imagine the soul who figures this out will have enjoyed the dance of wit enough to play it out to the end as it was meant to be.” Are you saying I have to learn how to dance in order to solve this thing?? ::smile:: OK, I guess I’ll be working on that between now and summer.

          • JDA- No worries about dancing… if you hang out here long enough, you’ll be spinning in circles like a whirling dervish. 🙂

  50. I can’t wrap my head around it… do you think that the person who has pretty much solved the poem knows they are the one?

    I have worked on my current solve for about 10 months and it’s the most solid solution I’ve had. Every line and practically every word has meaning. I have married the poem to points on a map…. and I’m stuck at the end!

    That’s where my question comes from. I think I have a good solution to the poem but I still question the whole thing. Is the person that gives Forrest his “gut feeling” confident and without doubt?

    • I’ve been reading all over this week; there are at least half a dozen people who seem pretty sure they are the “someone.” At least three of them have different solves.

      It wouldn’t surprise me if the actual “someone” is extremely ambivalent about picking up the TC, particularly if they don’t really need the money. Think about it. We all imagine opening the chest (the moment ff has helped us to envision so well!). But what comes next for that ‘someone’?

      I was on TV for a short time in the 00s (I’m not an actress, and didn’t win the lottery LOL). The internet then was nothing like now. I felt the pressure of the lack of privacy even just within the studio. I noticed some dear friends treating me differently in ways I could never have predicted. When someone appears with a cup of tea of a brand they’ve travelled 10 miles across LA to find just because they heard you like it (and you are not dying and they are not your beloved!), well…it’s weird. Uncomfortable. Sustained pressure will change your geography. 🙂

      My experience was 1/1,000,000th of the “someone’s.” I can’t imagine what that person will go through–and surely, the finder will be found by media / news outlets even if ff keeps it a secret–because the finding is such a great and lucrative story, especially in these times.

      I hope the finder will consider re-hiding it 🙂 , donating it, giving a lot back to ff–including the autobiography after they’ve read it!, taking a nugget or two, donate the rest to the museum of ff’s choice, and trying to go underground for a few years. Think about what happens to many lottery winners (there is one suing to remain anonymous right now): http://time.com/4176128/powerball-jackpot-lottery-winners/ If you are the someone, think about after, and not just what you’ll do with the “gold.”

      I’d love to know about the solve–of course! But I will totally understand if the finder hides out, and I think most of us feel that way.

      • LadyV,

        There’s another good reason for the finder to remain anonymous — to protect the pristine condition of Forrest’s secret place. imo

      • If I didn’t live in a forest, I’d comment regularly here at Dals site cuz it’s awesome! But I digress…
        If I were the lucky slueth, I’d let Forrest direct my next move. I’d give him whatever he wants and ask his desires for the chest. I would fight like heck with my husband to donate it to the Smithsonian if Forrest doesn’t want anything from it…and I certainly would not want to see it parted out or melted down!
        I would trade it for educational time with Forrest if I could! I just want to know the whole story!!!

        • Nice thoughts! I agree about asking F if he would like the chest or anything in it back. When I dream about the idea of finding the treasure, I think about maybe putting it on display = on loan – at a museum for a period of time for others to see and appreciate. I would want to keep it intact if possible, but the tax situation may preclude that from being possible. It would be nice to remain anonymous, but I would also want to let friends and family know that I was not just a treasure hunter, but a treasure finder. Oh, to dream…

      • The chest and the stories it represents belongs to the ages. It is not mine to keep but mine to earn. I will just keep what it has taught me and then pass it on. Today was a good day.

        I wonder if Forrest really knows .
        Enjoyed your post Lady V

        An Indian Scout and A Saint

        • There are so many people at this site that I enjoy look forward to reading! You all are some of them. 🙂

          Geydelkon, perhaps he’s just being straightforward… Dal’s site is overwhelmed with visitors now. There are articles about the TC regularly, all over the world. There are SO many people searching now compared to even a year ago (and their computers!), FF may just think it is inevitable someone will find it this summer. He may not have any more info. from any “someone” at all.

          He could’ve said, “I’ve been contacted by one, a few, several searchers who appear to maybe have solved the first 7-8-9 clues.” Or, “Yes, someone/s has been closer than 200 feet.” But he didn’t.

          On the other hand, even if there are a million searchers, if we’re all making the same errors–or if HE did, in writing the poem!–none of us may find it. LOL.

    • Tim M- this much i can tell you…the bird who has solved the poem knows they are the one. not sure about the person though. humans get some crazy thoughts sometimes. especially when they are hungry.

      i think.

  51. These last 12 or so comments and thoughts are quite inspiring. Thanks for posting them.

    It is my interpretation that perhaps it is more complicated than just solving the clues and walking out to get the treasure. A person/persons with feelings and personalities have to do it, and want to do it. I’m sure if it is found a person will have too ask themselves why they are really there, for what purpose does it serve them. Reflection on yourself is sometimes hard to see after the fact.

  52. Twingem wrote: ” I imagine he [Forrest] feels understood at last by the person who has solved it.”
    ——————————————————————————————————
    Oh I think it will be a bit more significant than that. For those thousands who called the hunt a “hoax”, especially one particular Native American man who threatened to take away a searcher’s car if searcher appeared on Indian lands, and all those snobbish ivory tower types, this will be a vindication for Forrest.

    For those people, perhaps the “finder” will prove the chest was indeed hidden, and then re-hide it, and thus allow the chase to continue.

    Ken (in Texas) 🙂

    • Hi Ken;

      Regretfully Ken, If I were the “finder” – I could not afford to re-hide it and leave it in place…and let the chase continue. If possible, I would have to retrieve it. Too many people are counting on me to help make their lives better financially.

      Would this be wrong? Just askin’ JDA

      • JDA,

        If you find the TC, it’s not wrong to help people out. “Too many people are counting on me to help make their lives better financially.” I think this is also an underlying theme and premise for what FF has created – to give people hope. Those people who are counting on you have hope. At best, you would be the one that changes others lives. At least, you will have went on a great journey, enjoyed some great mountain scenery, and had experiences that you would have otherwise not had.

        “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.” – Theodore Roosevelt

        Carry the victory (or defeat) like a badge of honor. Either way – you earned something great in this chase. That’s the way I like to look at it.

        And to the finder – well done! I hope you do great things with the experiences and the trove that, without a doubt, was well earned!

        Respectfully – Covert One

        • Covert One;

          Thanks for the lovely post. I appreciate it. Strive – yes. True, whether I find it or not, I feel that I am a winner. I have had four generations of searchers out there on more than one occasion.

          I have had a son from Virginia, and a daughter and her son from Maryland participate – In all, I think that I have had as many as 14 family members “Chasing” that trove that is at the end of a rainbow. How lucky I have been!!!

          Thanks again for the post – JDA

      • JDA,

        No, it’s not wrong for you to look out for yourself and your family. You earned it, just like money earned from sculpting. I’m sure there are some who might disagree, but IMO searchers should not feel obligated to share the find. If you want to share, then share. A little or a lot. That’s a personal decision based on your situation and personal views.

        If I were to find it then I plan to share with worthy organizations, BUT only after I have taken care of my family. An educational trust for our granddaughter, a new car for my daughter who cannot afford one and get a house too. Payoff the mortgage on my son’s place, so he and his fiancé don’t have to worry about that anymore. My brother has helped me a lot too doing field work so I need to return the favor. Ditto on my in-laws side. They could use some help too. Things like that.

        After all that then I’d share with well respected organizations trying hard to make a real difference in the world.

        My wife and I are both retired with modest retirement income and the house was just paid off, so we’re “comfortable” financially.

        I’d be lying to you and everyone else out there if I said I wasn’t in this for the money, because I am, but it’s for family. I’m in it for the notoriety of solving a puzzle no one else has.

        So don’t feel ashamed if you can’t afford to share. Circumstances many times dictate direction.

        On a much less serious note, I know you like drones in terms of using one For searching, so if you didn’t get a chance to watch the Olympics Opening Ceremony the other night, check out this YouTube video. It’s pretty impressive.

        https://youtu.be/T0kqUrQL8e8

        Take care……… pinatubocharlie

        • Thanks P-Charlie;

          You are always so kind.

          If I were to be lucky enough to find Indulgence, I have contemplated letting Forrest let the world know that she (it) has been found. Leaving a “box” of some kind in its place, and returning the “Hidey Space” back to its original condition.

          I would then NOT disclose where it was found – while I finish writing my book, and getting it edited and published – and figuring out how to liquidate Indulgence. I suspect that this process could take up to one year.

          Once I publish, all will know where it was found. This seems to be a compromise that would let the chase go on for one more year – after Indulgence is found.

          The search would (of course) focus on Wyoming, since I have made no secret of the fact that I search in Wyoming.

          Just a thought – any comments?

          Thanks again for the post P-Charlie
          JDA

          • I’d like to think the location would never be disclosed. The first finder might leave the box (it’s worth a pittance compared to the booty). In turn, subsequent searchers/finders, might savor some quiet minutes enjoying the specialness of the location and be party to an ongoing story. A “destination story’ kept alive by wits and efforts and silence. An agreement of honor. Finders could participate (announce their success) by leaving their name in the box & placing a single 12-15” rock near it. In time the rocks will define a border around the the box, like those isolated graves sometimes found in remote places.

            Nah, that won’t happen.

          • You’re welcome JDA.

            What to do after finding indulgence? Heck, I honestly don’t know. It’s fun to dream and all that, but frankly I don’t spend much energy thinking about it, except to say that I plan to follow Forrest’s suggestion of putting it in safe deposit box for a month and then assess options and contact him personally with proof (that be the bracelet), including many photos. However, right now my time is best spent focusing on finding it and I think I’m making a lot of progress.

            I agree it’s best to let Forrest inform the world. Speaking for myself I don’t think I want the media and weirdos beating down my front door and ruining our privacy. But I’m not sure I’d leave something behind right away. Take some time to think about it because there could be “issues” or unexpected consequences involved. It’s best to keep things as simple as possible in the beginning because I think you’ll be quickly overwhelmed and might inadvertently do something you’d later regret.

            As to a book, if you feel your story will sell, then go for it. I don’t know what your background is in that regard, but if your dream of finding the TC comes true and you decide to pursue a book, I have a niece who has been published several times and her books are being sold on Amazon. I think she might be interested in helping if needed. Just a thought.

            One last thing and I hope Dal doesn’t mind, but with all do respect, I think you’re making a serious mistake ending the poem at “Look quickly down your quest to cease”. I understand you’ve got a lot of work vested in the way you’ve reorganized the poem, however, I am convinced it is not the last clue.

            I honestly wish I could explain why and provide supporting arguments, but of course I can’t. I will say this though, my reasoning is in all 3 books and not hard to find.

            Sorry for not responding sooner, but I mostly only work on HoD stuff in the morning before moving on to other things. Today I hang a big map on the wall and start drawing the lines many here don’t think exist. Perhaps they are right. Time will tell.

            Take care my friend,

            Pinatubocharlie

          • Thanks P-Charlie for the response. “IF” I find it, I will explain why I moved things around, and why it worked out well. If I do not find it, I guess I can chalk it us to experience, and wait for the finder to disclose His/Her methodology. Goof luck with your map, and your search. JDA

          • In my dreams of riches new and old…

            1) I have a small little brass chest to replace Indulgence. It has a note sealed in plastic that says, “You were right!”
            2) I’m considering putting 1 gold double eagle coin along with an original gem, in the little chest.
            (Not sure I want to open the chest at the location but can go back later???)
            3) The Bracelet goes back to Forrest
            delivered personally. In return I hope Forrest wishes to hang out – We have lots of material to discuss…
            4) I of course get the secret thing that has been left just for the finder.
            5) Each member of my family gets to pick one coin or one gem stone.
            6) I will remove probably 15 double eagles leaving 250 gold coins. These coins will be given out as follows:
            – Dal
            – Jenny
            – JDA
            – Undisclosed Forum Member
            – Undisclosed Forum Member
            – Undisclosed Forum Member
            – Brother
            – Brother
            – Brother
            – Sister
            – Work shift partner
            – Close Friend
            – Close Friend
            – To a good Samaritan
            7. a) I will see if Forrest has any ideas as to what official Institution might want to purchase and display the Treasure for all to see through time:
            – perhaps the Denver Museum
            – perhaps a Santa Fe, NM patron
            – perhaps the Smithsonian
            – etc.

            I am unfortunately not independently wealthy and though I’m not blinded by the Treasure’s worth, like JDA, I have things and people to be responsible for, plus the time freedom I so desperately want, to pursue the Biophysics of Gerontology and hopefully make a contribution to the field; during my third act in life. Therefore my wife and I have previously determine a financial number which will allow us financial freedom as well as significantly improve the lives of our loved ones.

            The Institution which purchases it will need to exceed this figure.

            In this light, I do wish to maximize the Treasure’s value – to this end, any additional money above our pre-determined, figure will go into the formation of a foundation with the explicit mission to solve humanity’s most intractable problems not the least of which are:
            – Aging and its associated diseases
            – Humanity’s Psychological Evolution
            – Earth’s Biosphere Diversity
            – Paying the Treasure Hunt Forward

            Secondarily,
            7.b) I believe the chest is famous enough and has collectibles interesting enough, to make it worthy of Christie’s Auction house of New York. http://www.christies.com/

            It could possibly go for more than 10 million – if Forrest thinks this is viable then it might go to that stage…

            I hope this last idea doesn’t depress people but unfortunately the future is coming at humanity at a pace we just aren’t prepared for, frankly. This is a major reason why Forrest put the Treasure out there in the first place but a single treasure isn’t sufficient to inspire a critical mass of humanity.

            Late night musings of a hopeful and idealistic hunter of treasures, where ever they might be planted or found.

            GCG

  53. My thoughts on the GutFeeling is that probably WWWH has been accurately identified on the blogs repeatedly and whatever the “trick” is to putting the solution together has been mentioned, too. This is the only blog I read so I have no idea what’s going on elsewhere (except occasionally Jenny’s). Certainly possible he saw it in a very accurate email, of course.

    • WWWH has not been accurately identified on the blogs. That is my opinion on the matter.

      As for the rest… I suppose we might see this Summer if one among us has “Listened Good.”

      Only TIME will tell.

      • Welcome back IW.

        I was sorry to hear you had left the Chase and thought at the time your absence might only be temporary. Sometimes it’s just best to get away for while, collect your thoughts, and so you can approach it fresh.

        I guess you can say you were at a halt. 🙂

        Again, welcome back.

        Pinatubocharlie

      • I agree Iron Will. IMO, WWWH probably has not been mentioned on this blog.
        I think if someone “knows” the WWWH and has started unraveling the puzzle, they are not going to post even part of their solve.

        • I tend to believe that WWWH has been mentioned on this blog. It’s just my opinion of course but FF said, and I’m paraphrasing, several have got the firs clue correct. Because of that I don’t think it is quite as obscure as some believe.

          • didn’t he go on to say he didn’t know whether they knew it or just got there by accident? to me I could see how you could deduce the same location as me but have a completely different line of reasoning that led to it.

          • Aaron, I believe these quotes may be what you mentioned. I think they are from MW.

            Do you expect that people will somehow *know* for sure once they have found the first clue?
            F: No, many people have found the first clue but they didn’t know it. Until someone finds the treasure they will not know for sure that they have discovered the first clue.
            Or they might have found it without realizing it?
            F: Yes

            No 49, I cannot tell you how many searchers have identified the first clue correctly, but certainly more than several. I cannot imagine anyone finding the treasure without first identifying the starting point, although many seem to be preoccupied with later clues.

            Hope this helps.

          • Thanks Cynthia, considering those quotes it’s hard to imagine that WWWH has never even been mentioned here. As far as not wanting competition nobody even knows that they found the correct WWWH. If they knew it they certainly would not share it and likely would have found the chest already.

          • Here is another quote from one of Jenny’s 6 Questions (2014):

            Searchers have routinely revealed where they think the treasure was hidden and walked me through the process that took them on that course. That’s how I know a few have identified the first two clues. Although others were at the starting point I think their arrival was an aberration and they were oblivious to its connection with the poem. Playing a hunch is not worth much in the search and those who start out by looking for the blaze, are wasting their time.f

          • Hi Aaron: while it may be hard to imagine that, after over 7 years and hundreds of thousands of posts, no one has publicly identified Forrest’s WWWH, I think you’ve answered your own question as to how this could be:

            “If they knew it they certainly would not share it…”

            But I disagree with the end of your thought: “… and likely would have found the chest already.” It seems a lot of people think that solving WWWH is the linchpin to the whole shebang, but clearly this is not the case because some searchers figured out WWWH many years ago, and yet most of them are still (apparently) hung up on clue #3.

            I know some will argue that they couldn’t possibly have known; that they were there by intuition or luck rather than by design. But I think this is wishful thinking. In all of the Rockies, multiple independent *searchers* have arrived at the same spot within a couple years of the start of the Chase by little more than accident? That conclusion doesn’t stand up very well to probability and statistics.

            A simpler explanation is that WWWH is hard to figure out, and so very few have done so. And if the third clue is also hard — even when you have the correct WWWH — then it may not necessarily be the case that the mindset that could sleuth out WWWH is the same one that could solve clue #3.

          • “But I disagree with the end of your thought: “… and likely would have found the chest already.” It seems a lot of people think that solving WWWH is the linchpin to the whole shebang, but clearly this is not the case because some searchers figured out WWWH many years ago, and yet most of them are still (apparently) hung up on clue #3” – Zap

            I agree that people are getting hung up on clue 3 and do not think just solving WWWH is the linchpin. FF said “Those who solve the first clue are more than half way to the treasure, metaphorically speaking.” The problem is verification that one has found the first clue.

            I believe that while WWWH was likely mentioned here they did not know they were right. My comment was more along the lines of if they knew they had WWWH right they would continue searching until they found it. They are more than halfway there, metaphorically speaking, if they locate it but verification of and the 3rd clue is the problem.

            It is hard to imagine that a number of people have found WWWH but it would not have been mentioned here with as many pages of comments that have been logged here since the site was created.

          • Zap,

            Earlier you said “In all of the Rockies, multiple independent *searchers* have arrived at the same spot within a couple years of the start of the Chase by little more than accident? That conclusion doesn’t stand up very well to probability and statistics.”

            May I ask why you think WWWH is actually in the RMs? Has Forrest stated that as fact? If so, would you please provide a reference?

            This is important because, and I’ve posted this before, it very possible other clues are located outside the RMs and other searchers, especially the newbies, might be mislead by your statement.

            Thank you much,

            Pinatubocharlie

          • Zap;

            I think that a number of people have figured out wwwh, and took it in the canyon down. I think that they even put in below the hoB. I think that the hang-up has been “The no place for the meek.”

            For me, and my solve, this one took a bit of imagination. My wife and I have agreed to disagree on this one. I think that what I have chosen as the “meek place (actually 4 places or things)” is the correct one, but admit that it DOES take a bit of imagination.

            I am sure that this has stumped many-a searcher. Just my observation – JDA

          • Zap/Aaron – FF also said that “You have to find out—you have to learn where the first clue is. They get progressively easier after you discover where the first clue is.”

            I wonder why people who have identified the first two clues have gone by the rest of them if they are supposed to get easier? I think (paraphrased) they leave the poem at this point (somehow).

            I also find it is interesting that FF says we need to “learn where the first clue is”…kind of leaves it open for interpretation a bit…

          • Hi Pinatubocharlie – good catch! My apologies: there actually is no requirement for WWWH to be in the United States, or even North America. About all we know about it is that people have physically been there, so it is somewhere on Earth. It stands to reason that the most likely location is somewhere within the contiguous U.S. since people arrived there relatively soon after the poem and book came out. I happen to believe that WWWH and all the other clues are within the highlighted portion of Forrest’s map in TFTW … but nothing that Forrest has said requires that.

        • Clearly Clueless: my thoughts align with yours. I’m confident WWWH has never been identified here on Dal’s blog precisely because its solvers don’t want additional competition.

          • Zaphod,
            My WWWH has never, as far as I know, been mentioned here.
            That is a good thing!
            I M O
            Clearly Clueless

          • Same here CC… and mine is directly mentioned within TTotC… well the location isn’t but the hint is.

          • Zap;

            I can guarantee that my wwwh has been mentioned here on the blog. I could say more, but won’t – JDA

          • P.S. I LOVE competition, but am smart enough to know that loaning my track shoes to my competition two minutes before the start of the race might not be the smartest idea – 🙂 JDA

          • Isn’t it interesting how wound up people can get over a single statement from Forrest? It reminds me of the ketchup Scrapbook from last year and the “three winners” in the bingo game. After each, searchers worked themselves into a lather that the end was imminent, yet here we are.

          • I wonder how many other “gut feelings” he has felt in all his writings and interviews that came true?

          • Zaphod,

            Having only joined HoD this last fall, I’m not sure how comprehensive my reading goes back, but I too have never heard anyone mention what I believe to be the “correct” WWWH.
            Further in reading many other sites, I’ve only heard people mention in off-handed ways the “correct” place and others who actually eliminated it as a potential because it didn’t fit their predefined criteria, as well as others who were there but didn’t understand the rest of the poems clues enough to realize they had it…

            JDA, it’s my firm belief no one who has WWWH correct, has also had HoB correct – if they had, the treasure chest would have been discovered by now…

            Remember the all important Forrest Quotes:

            “If a person reads the poem over and over…and are able to decipher the first few clues in the poem, they can find the treasure chest.”

            “I made two trips from my vehicle to where I hid the treasure.”

            “If you have a searching partner, best to have them wait in the car.”

            “[HoB]… … If I told you that, you would go right to the chest.”

            “Thanks for the question Ben. If you are sure about the location of home of Brown why are you concerned about where warm waters halt?”

            And the second part of this quote:
            “But to answer your question, sure you could and a few searchers might throw in some gas money for a percentage of the take.”

            JDA – You know all these already but I list them together because in aggregate they paint a very telling picture!

            The all important Stanza #2 full understanding!

            NO ONE has had this nailed down until recently…thus Forrest new gut feeling.

            GCG

          • GCG
            I believe the correct wwwh has been provided somewhere as that searchers basis.

            Ill use firehole for use of a name. If someone identified this to Fenn as their basis, they understood the significance, however, when someone followed the prior searchers path, they didnt understand the significance of the clue and still continued the errors from the prior searcher. This does seem the most feasible way to account for both of Fenn statements.
            Searcher 1 explained why firehole.
            Searcher 2 said firehole yadda yadda.

            Its also possible that Searcher 2 could also understand the sihnificance, but didnt disclose it. But seeing people writting/disclosinh styles I would say they want to tell all.

            Someone recently posted to this cite their solution, however everything in it was from either fennclues.com or old discussions.
            Can someone get to these old ideas withiut the blogs, yes, but after a light read, they would quickly see their error. I bring this up only to show how people will follow what has already been prior posted. There are many lurkers who do the same and probably email Fenn too.

          • Kira,
            As usual, I applaud your sound logic and in general agree however I did it differently.

            Once I had my general solve, I used google & the forums to see if anyone else had ever discussed any of my Clue interpretations.

            What I found were pieces here and there but no confidence supporting the individual disparate parts and certainly no coherent understanding relative to the one offs.

            Much like Forrest’s statement in the Wikipedia entry on the Fenn Treasure hunt; “I don’t know that anybody has told me the clues in the right order.”

            From my perspective this statement by Forrest seemed generous since only as a community through the multitudes of various stabs, in the vertible dark woods – could this statement possibly be true.

            Given this fact, he most certainly must get his best interpretation privately. I have at least 4 unique interpretations in my solve that are critical…

            Anyway I say all this to suggest much inside the Forums are truly distracting and if not read mostly to stimulate the individual creative juices then you’re probably going down the wrong canyon.

            JMHO

            GCG

  54. I dunno. I feel uncharacteristically confident in my solve. I’m not a confident person at all really. Of course I have a little doubt but once I found my spot I felt like my search was over and I just needed to wait for the snow to melt. the way my solve just unraveled on its own was exhilarating. maybe some people know this feeling. It was like how it feels when you write a song and you are really into it. It all pours out of you with trembling excitement. it was like all the thinking, reading, learning, and map scanning came together after I had a random thought about WWWH.

    I emailed forrest my solve in a word doc. I just wanted to tell someone my ideas i guess. I basically just said “i dunno if you find it interesting to read searchers solves but here’s mine. I plan on exploring the area this summer with my wife. I sent him the coordinates in the email body and subject thinking it might catch his attention if it was close. I tried to keep the email short I put the solve details in the attached word doc. I didn’t get an email back nor did i expect one. I had 8 clues “solved” up until the blaze. In my analysis I said a few things about what I thought the blaze might be but not being in the area made it difficult to really know. I sent 3 pics from google earth where i zoomed in on my area of interest and the exact path I was going to follow.

    I know it’s silly of me to think the 6 questions “gut feeling” is related to the email i sent to him. I guess the little things he said combined with my lingering questions which were presented in my analysis, the time i said I was going. my pictures sent from google earth. and the exact place and path I told him i was going to follow, made me think I was getting an indirect answer. I know it’s unlikely and I feel arrogant for thinking his comments pertained to me, but you never know.

    I’m actually changing plans and heading out to my spot next week. its in new mexico, the snow has melted in my area, and relatively warm. so Its safe to go now.

    my feelings are mixed if i find it. I would feel kinda guilty or sad feeling I dont deserve it and like i ruined his secret spot. I’d feel bad about ending the chase for all the other searchers. I would try to keep my identity unknown for at least a month possibly trying to keep it hidden indefinitely. I’d reaviel my analysis and the location if forrest was ok with it although that could turn into legal trouble. Depending on the value of it all, I would most likely take a large portion of the treasure and create a new chase. It just has to go on. I don’t need a lot of money to be happy. A little right now would go a long way, I could fund a few of my business ideas and thats what i really want. If I become wealthy id rather it be from something i built than selling off all the treasure. I’d sell just enough to be comfy for a few years and to have some seed money for a few business ideas.

    Anyway If I am the one who solved it. you’ll know in a week. If I didn’t or somehow walk right past it, I’ll post my analysis/solve so others can see some new ideas. I’m a little proud of my solve. especially my WWWH and “heavy loads and water high” interpretation. I’m only giving this one go so after my trip i’m done with the chase so I don’t mind sharing my ideas. it would suck if i walk past and someone else found it in my spot but life goes on.

    I spent too much time writing this, and now i dont even think much of it was worth saying. but i’ll post it anyway. Also I dont feel like reviewing it for mistakes. hopefully it makes enough sense and I can be forgiven for my laziness.

    • Oh yea. If I find the treasure. I think I would have to put on everything that’s wearable and just strut around town like a king for an hour. I can indulge in materialistic behaviour for an hour and still be a good person right? also because this blog has been a nice resource in my search, I would feel a little obligated to let Dal have a few items if he really wanted them. I guess this website is what got me in the chase and helped me with my potentially correct solve, so It wouldn’t be right not to share in return.

    • Interesting stuff.

      I always assume Forrest is talking directly to me even though I know he is not. I figure it this way: If I am on the right track, then assuming Forrest is talking to me can only help. If I am on the wrong track, it totally doesn’t matter what Forrest says.

      I think a lot of people are doing the same thing, whether consciously or not. We all think we are the special one. I’m already almost finished writing the book about how I found it this summer.

      Have fun on your search.

    • Awesome, Alex, can’t wait to find out if you found ff’s loot since I searched NM for almost 5 years, as have others. And if you don’t find it, I’ll still be delighted to read your solutions to the clues and poem. If you do find it, and it was hidden somewhere within the interior of the Enchanted Circle, I will probably shoot myself, though, just saying! Ha Ha…. I’m kidding.

      There was a storm yesterday that swept through the Sangre de Cristos, I think. Molly and I took a loop drive today… mountains along SF had snow as did Las Vegas NM, but Los Alamos and Jemez Mountains are practically bare. Valles Caldera was stunning today but absolutely no snow there which is a very bad thing for fires this summer.

      Have a wonderful trip! Good luck!

      • im keeping an eye on live satellite imagery, weather reports and live cams. im exploring south of the Enchanted Circle. my spot is snow free, the forecast is clear and hopefully stays that way. snow is the only thing that would stop me now. Cant wait to get out west.

        I have one day dedicated to exploring my solve area and seeing if i can solve the last clue. I think I found the “blaze” when thinking in terms of it being a path that leads to a physical object/observable feature. but what that object might be is a collection of possibilities that I’ve deduced from the 4th stanza. I need to be there to see what maps and GE can’t provide.

        I’m surprised Forrest actually stated that you have to be there to solve the last clue. looking through old Q&A pages he always dodged the question. (its my assumption the blaze is the last clue) I was still in the “armchair” with the blaze. his statement about needing to have a physical presence is what is pushing me out the door. we’ll see what happens. I’ll be doing some sightseeing aside from the chase so It’ll be a fun trip regardless.

        • The genius of the “gut feeling” comment is that everyone who sent Fenn an E-mail in the last few Months think he’s telling them that they figured it out, and everyone that didn’t thinks that someone else has figured it out!

        • Randawg: or even better: I *didn’t* send Forrest an email in the last few months, but I still think I’ve figured it out. 😉

  55. I guess I can’t edit anything here on this confusion of a mess of information. I’ll clean it up and organize… maybe add some frames… That’s really all we need. But anyway, it is very cold and most of the ground is frozen in all of the Rockies. It may be best to wait until the heavy loads melt before going in blind. Saw cougar tracks close to a road and nearly all campsites are still closed. Please be safe.

  56. Pinatubocharlie,
    From MW featured questions with Forrest August 12 2014
    Someone unfamiliar with your poem receives a message that says “meet me where warm waters halt, somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”. Would they be able to work out where to go? If they can’t, would they need the whole poem, another stanza, or just a line or word to help them on their way? ~Phil Bayman

    .
    There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them. You over simplify the clues. There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts. f

    wdor

  57. Someone unfamiliar with your poem receives a message that says “meet me where warm waters halt, somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”. Would they be able to work out where to go? If they can’t, would they need the whole poem, another stanza, or just a line or word to help them on their way? ~Phil Bayman

    .
    There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them. You over simplify the clues. There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts. f

    Is there anyone else who else thinks that the clues start in the South and move to the North? General terms depend on what you believe to be WWWH, in my Big Picture, I see 4 pictures, New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming and Montana, and specifically they start at 32 degrees in the 4 states, that is the big picture, not only that, but each of these states are in some form or other shaped like a picture frame, Borders on itty biddy lines moving northward as you move closer to the Treasure?

    Some may argue for the Treasure state, and others say something else, we all have our treasure location bias, but do not lose site of the big picture, go back to the beginning of the hunt in 2011 and read about the Mountains North of Santa Fe, later in the hunt after Colorado got wind of TC it started to expand and be defined as “Rocky Mountains” and after Too Far Book the Chase was again redefined as the Big 4 states which included a map to define Borders. Why borders are important? Why not mention plug “Collected Works Books” ff obviously loved them enough to make them the exclusive dealer, he could have gotten any Hemingway, or the Great Gatsby and Catcher in the Rye?

    Where is the 32 degree point where water freezes and a Border was created? At Texas, New Mexico, and Old Mexico at the Canyon Down, the Rio Bravo as she is called in Old terms. Take it in the Canyon Down and cut the first big picture (frame) in half, Eastern NM and Western NM.

    If there is another layer behind the significance of WWWH and Canyon Down, what could it be? New Mexico has forever used the term in its Game and Fish Proclamation which stated these exact words “Cold water regulations begin…..Warm Water (Regulations) Halt….Yes it was always an exact spot on each river, lake and creek, no other state has used that term. I said in my “Winter Thoughts” article here last year that I understood that it was the first clue, which I knew in 2011 as my search began, the New Zealand interview confirmed it and just as I stated that his Father knew or would know where his special place was, as he took his 80 year old dad to the very location and perhaps Eric Sloan as well, who would have been up in his years on earth as well since Eric passed in March of 1985.

    What was Forrest doing in 1985?

    Soon I may revise and/or refine the article “Winter Thoughts” and many new ideas will hopefully emerge, or maybe not. I feel many hunters do not have a good local frame of reference for connotations especially “Fenn Speak” which is both deep with colloquial meanings and sublime because of Fenn’s ability to market and transmit a confounding,even a baffling message to searchers.

    TomT

    • TomT

      I have read obout tje NM gishing regs as a possible, but never got around to looking deeper at them.

      You said
      “New Mexico has forever used the term in its Game and Fish Proclamation which stated these exact words “Cold water regulations begin…..Warm Water (Regulations) Halt”
      And also quoted Fenn, that there are many wwwh and nearly all are north of SF.

      Are the majority of named spots in the regs N or SF? If so it could add credance, however I havent mapped it, but I would guess its even distrubted. Its why I never bothered with the regs, if there is even a quarter of spots S of SF, it would seem that wwwh wouldnt be logucal to use.

      Do you know how many are S vs N?

  58. Regarding the comments here, whether or not the correct WWWH was mentioned here on Dal’s blog or the correct solve to all the clues was mentioned here or any other blogs. Forrest believes only a very small percentage of searchers read this blog or others. Some of the most intuitive searchers never read the blogs, let alone post their ideas. So it is possible that his answer stating “my gut feeling is that someone will find it this summer” is in response to an email that he received from a searcher who does not participate in any blogs. I was astounded to find out when I first heard about Fenn’s treasure back in 2013 that there were organized 4-wheeler clubs who together were searching for his treasure chest from the beginning in 2010/ 2011. Just saying… But I sure like to think he was referring to one of us here on HOD.
    cynthia

    • Your points are well taken, Cynthia. All the more reason to search sooner rather than later because the odds are that if Forrest’s “gut feeling” is coming from a single searcher’s email, it wasn’t one of us. I’m hoping it’s more a general feeling Forrest has, based on the combination of whatever emails he has received over time and whatever browsing he has done of the various blogs.

  59. Maybe Forrest is being tricky with this answer.
    Have searchers homed into other clues or WORDS in the poem?
    My gut feeling is that someone will find IT this summer.

    Will that someone find the treasure or find IT. Whatever you think IT may be.
    All IMHO.

    • Good point John. With the recent talk about “it” in the poem here there is a chance he is referring to “it” instead of the treasure.

      • I think ‘It’ refers to either end, quest, chest, trove/trough/trophy or some form of an “I” tee. Although he also finally says ‘I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak’

        His it sounds like he attempted something but didn’t quite finish. His quest was cut short, or perhaps our quest is directionally different from his.

    • JDA, are you rationalizing this or re-evaluating your multiple times through the poem thinking?

      Maybe this allows you to share your solve(s), for which I have been patiently waiting?

      • “FF, you say “There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt.” My question- Is there more than 1 home of Brown? Thanks, Jill

        No Jill, there is only one home of Brown in my poem. f”

        I thought Fenn’s answer revealed nothing at first. In my mind there is only one ‘home of Brown’. But saying there are many places where wwh, but only One possibility for the hoB may be a huge hint.

          • Fenn chooses his words carefully and knows searchers will analyze them. There is only one wwh in the poem too BB.

          • BB—

            I am sure that it is not his intention to mislead. However, Brown is a pretty common name, and so someone’s wife may have kept her maiden name (like Brown) and the title to a home they own intersects the poem. Maybe Mr. Fenn didn’t know she legally kept her maiden name. So it might be a honest error and Mr. F didn’t realize it when he answered that question.

            Didn’t he also say something like …I reserve the right to be wrong answering a question… Did he say that before or after he answered that question? I don’t know…..

    • I don’t think Fenn would consciously give somebody a private hint. And if he ever did it apparently hasn’t helped them much. 😉

    • This reply seems to point out what are hints in the book.
      The chapter “Me in the Middle” is referenced. The sentence about 35 miles an hour for 1,600 miles with no air conditioning or radio is directly from the chapter “In Love with Yellowstone”. The chapter “The Long Ride Home” is referenced as well when he mentions the drive from Casper to Shoshoni. That road is Hwy 26 which then goes to Riverton and then Dubois and on. I’ve not paid much attention to numbers, but in the long ride home, he mentions 1600 miles across 5 states. In his answer on MW, he mentions 5 people in the car going 1600 miles at 35 miles an hour. Maybe there is something there, but I’m not seeing it right now. Anyone, anyone…
      Also, it should be Montgomery Ward, not Montgomery Wards. Montgomery Wards means something to me for my solution, but I’m not comfortable explaining what that is at this point. Sorry.

      • Could you explain. Sure, they take Cheyenne Mt for granite, but does that mean they’re going toaim all their nukes there? Interested in this nuclear sponge idea.

        • Hi astree,
          It is actually just a headline to a story I googled. I haven’t had time to read it yet, but thought it sounded interesting. I’ve always believed the treasure is in Colorado. I’ll have to read it later.

        • Someone posted a map of the nuclear targets in the four states on MW. If Red Dawn is coming, I am joining the wolverines!

          • Darn it! I already have one conviction for trespassing on a nuclear base. They probably won’t be as understanding if it happens again. I guess I’ll just have to retire from the chase since I’m no longer able to follow all of the hints.

          • Fenn finally figured out how to get rid of all those crazies sending them to nuclear silos. Fenn you are au genius!

          • JW,

            Six or eight years ago we had a priest and a couple of nuns breach the secured perimeter of a very sensitive “area” where I used to work. They were very lucky the jar-head clan exercised extreme control and didn’t do what they know how and authorized (in this case), to do best. I sure hope that wasn’t you.

            So I’m curious, was your incursion inland or near salt water?

            Pinatubocharlie

          • Pinatubocharlie,
            Just joking on that one, even though I did demonstrate outside that base back in the 70’s. Had to google a bit to figure out that it was the same base where the event you mentioned happened. I stretched the facts a bit to make the joke.

            Saying that I was retiring from the chase was also a joke, much to many of my friend’s chagrin since they think I’m doing this just to annoy them (their annoyance is just an added benefit).

    • Montana central would be obliterated according to attack maps I just looked at. Must be m-silo heaven up there?

      And the eastern Rockies of Colorado w Colorado AF Academy, And usual places mentioned already, but also the North Platte areas in both CO & WY

      (Everyone knows there is a REAL Treasure Island in North Platte, right?)

  60. Somewhat off topic,
    Has anyone discussed pages 99 and 100 in TFTW. When Forrest jumps from the cliff to the tree on page 99 his right boot is clearly detailed. On page 100 at the bottom left is a drawing of what appears to the right boot as if the person is laying on his back. Looks like Forrest put it in there as a joke or maybe he missed the jump and fell. If so, maybe the tree limbs helped to break the fall as he never talked about getting hurt from the jump.
    I cannot connect the page 100 boot to help with my solution, so I moved on from the drawing. But it still intrigues me.
    There’s a bunch of little drawings and pictures, I see them as hints, throughout his books.

    • I never met the man… but inefficient would not be a word I would associate with fenn… unless of course he’s talking about leisure time.
      Ha! even then, he said; he awakes and stay in bed for an hour, just thinking.
      The only thing I think about, when wakening, is how much a new alarm clock would cost me if I dropped kick the one buzzing in my ear.

  61. Does anyone know who chose the photo that accompanies the JK Featured Question today ? I want to read into that picture of the man sitting…
    Thanks!

  62. Not achieving maximum productivity; wasting or failing to make the best use of time or resources.

    He’s a overachiever when it comes to institutionalized education.

        • “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” f

          Q~ Does the first stanza in your poem reveal where searchers are supposed to begin when looking for “where warm waters halt” or are we only supposed to pay attention to….

          ~ “…If you can’t find *that location* you cannot find the treasure…”
          ~ “The *first -clue- in my poem is* WWWH.”

          Hmmm!

          • Seems consistent with previous quotes such as:
            “You have to learn WHERE the first clue is. They get progressively easier after you discover WHERE the first clue is.” f

          • This is a good response for Forrest IMO because:
            1. He uses “beforehand” to call recognition to the fact that some things need to be identified before you leave to search. The first item to recognize is WWWH. Just understanding what geographical feature WWWH is describing is not strong enough because there are many, so how do we figure out the hint that is key for this feature. To me, the poem is filled with hints that help identify certain clues. For the first clue, you need 2 things, the hint and the clue…the hint is in the line “As I have gone alone in there” so the first hint/clue combo you need to figure out is AIHGAIT/WWWH.

            2. Everyone is trying to look a clue as a single line, but why do we do that? Some clues need a complete description so here is what I recognize as the first 2 clues in the poem:
            Clue 1: BIWWWH with hint AIHGAIT
            Clue 2: ATIITCD, NFBTFTW
            This will allow you to use more information within the poem to describe certain clues better.
            Of course JMO

          • Duly noted, Treasure Happy

            (now why haven’t we ever considered that before, gang??) 🙂 🙂

          • When Forrest said we need to simplify, I take a couple of things away from that comment. A big one is that we try to break up parts of the poem when there is no need to….Try to recognize how he structured the poem, then do not over dissect parts that were not meant to be separated and use them in the order he provided for us…IMO

          • Colokid,
            If there’s one statement Fenn said that may be BS, you found it.
            So they figured the 1st 2 clues & the clues got easier & they found the treasure.
            Maybe the clues were so much easier they missed them.
            I throw that statement out the window along with many other ATF’s.

          • Loco pondered: “(now why haven’t we ever considered that before, gang??)”

            Who says we haven’t? 😉 Treasure Happy *almost* has the right answer with his point #1, IMO.

          • Zap
            Baby steps LOL 8 years of tromping around can get cumbersome (not I could have been as dedicated as some of you) so I think sharing some insight can only help all of us…Just maybe anyway haha

          • Treasure ~ ‘The first item to recognize is WWWH.’

            I get what your saying… we need all the clues to be happy with first.
            Everyone seems to be forcing a single clue to separate locations.
            I have suggested that all the clues are of one location and I’ll go a trap further… they are all connected as one.

            I think WWWH and HLnWH are the same reference stated differently, for a reason. We may need to see what was; once upon a while to what is today; tftw… and… how future searchers would have to see it a thousand years from now, and still be the same as we should see it today… yet may all be connected with yesteryears.

            Long ago I asked this question, Loco may recall it ~ multiple meanings thread ~ on another site, and a couple other searchers might recall as well.
            Do you consider 10,000 years down the road in the deciphering of the poem?
            { that was after fenn mentioned 100 yrs a 1000, maybe even 10,000 years down the road.}

            At the time no one seemed to considered or “imagine” the possiblity that we may need to, not only think about the future of the clue’s reference, but the past as well.

            Not US history, Not Native American history… but more to the idea of geography’s history of a “location”
            This is why I think [ imo, in theory, a logical assumption ] Hint of riches new and old are about imagination of a “location” the clues represent… then now and future times… yet are not the same as seen in any time.

            As Colokid pointed out, and others as well… apparently we need to “learn Where” the first clue is.

            That, imo, is read as; Begin it ‘where’ or begin it where ~ in time.
            Once upon a while?
            tftw?

          • Seeker
            I like you imagination and pondered over this from another tread…Let me address you comment:

            “I get what your saying… we need all the clues to be happy with first.”

            I don’t think we have to know what every clue is referencing to identify and figure out the first clue. IMO I actually think 7 of the 9 clues are solvable before you hit the dirt, but the last 2 have to be discovered at “ground zero.” You can identify the last 2 clues in the poem before you are BOTG but they require a visual observation once you are physically on the football field.

            On your approach, I love the uniqueness of it, but it is very hard for me to find the time element attachable to a location the way you describe. Can you come up with a simple yet workable example of this to help me understand better without telling me you solve?

          • sliced and diced to pieces…and still wwwh is THE mystery.
            Folks jumping up and down because they are positive theirs(wwwh) is the ONE….and yet no banana…just vacations.
            Treasure…folks have been doing just what you say for eight years…but so far no one has been able to *think the right things* and understand that first clue as it relates to the entire poem(riddle). Keep them thinkers thinking….

          • I think you are referencing the answer from Forrest:

            ♦ Q: Did the same 9 clues exist when you were a kid and to your estimation will they still exist in 100 years and 1000 years? “The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years but the geography probably will change before we reach the next millennia.”

            The first half of Fenn’s answer gives credence to the places the clues reference will be here for the next 100 years BUT the second half of Fenn’s answer suggests that a 1000 yrs from now, the geography may change. This leads me to infer that the places will “change” and the clues may not be applicable. My take away is this: I don’t believe the bronze box is hidden in a place that will satisfy the clues if any of the places the clues reference were to change due to changes in geography.

          • Ken
            Soooo True!! Nobody will be right till that bronze baby is sitting in someones hands….Until then, guess we’ll keep thinkin’ and lookin’ 🙂

          • I like your sense of humor Ken!! I’m still chucking about “sliced and diced”

          • Notice he doesn’t say solve first clue but “find”. And Colo:
            “You have to learn WHERE the first clue is. They get progressively easier after you discover WHERE the first clue is.” f
            And “you need to find out”.
            Chalk up another one for the searchers in the “you will find the spot before you find where wwwh is” club.

          • Interesting observation Charlie and I’ve thought about this before. I guess my question to you is how do you separate the “spot” and WWWH from what Forrest said? To me, even in this most recent answer from Fenn, he is alluding to 1 location, not 2…How do you logically get 2 different locations from his answer?

          • @ Mr. Zaphod – – ROFL

            My question to ‘the gang’ was tongue-in-cheek, facetious, if you will?? (dintcha see the smileyfaces??) 🙂

            Read ken’s slice and dice post again. Everything has been brought up by one searcher or another….and ripped apart, again and again and aga….

            Goofy calls it wash, rinse…repeat.

            Someone will find the correct location, someday…..but, it ain’t today.

            Good Luck to ALLLLL!!…….loco

          • treasure- it actually seems obvious that there are two separate places when you compare wwwh and the final spot. His answer, to me, just says if you don’t have the correct wwwh then you don’t have the correct end spot.
            If you have the correct end spot, then you have the correct wwwh.
            The poem puts an “X” on a map. To get to that spot, you follow a path. The path contains clues. To get to the spot, you will start somewhere, that is wwwh is. If the poem gives you the end spot, to find wwwh is you need to find “out”. The “X’ must be to clue 8, since clue 9 can be solved, and needs to be on site.
            IMO, the only way to find where warm waters halt is to solve the poem, put your “x” on a map, chart your path to that “x” on a map, and where you’ve learned to start is wwwh is. That place will match some references that he’s told, or stories, but alone, cannot be solved. It’s the one thing that searchers haven’t considered for a good solve. That not all the clues can be solved. Some must be found, some can be solved, but it’s the poem solved which pinpoints your end spot. It’s what he’s said, put an “x” on a map. Some of the clues will need boots on the ground, we know that, so ask yourself why. Why if the poem is suppose to solve all? It doesn’t, it does what he said it does, gives the “x”. So if all the clues cannot be solved, then what is left? Either guess from what you think is a clue, solve for clues, when we are to learn and find some of them, and hope the poem answers all the clues, when we know that f has not given the correct answer to some. No, how is that putting an “x” on a map? Both the start and the end are two different places, if you don’t have one, you don’t have the other. The only way to go clue by clue to obtain these places would be to ultimately guess, because the author didn’t give us all the answers to the questions, he has said as much. If you are guessing from the get go, the odds increase with each guess afterwards, if you have the correct end spot, no guessing, you have the correct start spot…No need to guess what a clue is or isn’t. IMO, you can find the chest and not have seen the blaze, and not know what it looks like. But you will know what a marvel gaze is. That is the hint of where the blaze is, but no where does anything say what the blaze looks like. So how would you know what to look for???

          • charlie
            Thank you for the detail in your response. I do not approach the poem the way you do, but understand your approach better now. From what I gather, you are reverse engineering the poem by putting an x on the map at clue 8 and charting the path from that spot and hoping that you receive confirmation as you pass other clues along this path. The beginning of that path is WWWH, correct?

            I’m certainly not going to say I have a better approach because I don’t have the chest, but I’m trying to let the poem guide me to that final location rather than trying to force the poem to work around a spot I have picked as a good x for the chest. I feel that I would apply too much confirmation bias to make the poem work for a location I pick.

            I’m down to the last 20% of the poem for my solve. I’ve made trips out to my search area and spent several days there before I found what I believe to be my ground zero. I like everything about it, but as Forrest has said, no one will happen upon the chest. I believe he hid it so well that you could very easily be standing in the end zone and still have no idea where the football is unless you have all 9 clues completely figured out. IMO Only those that are really, really confident in their solve thru the first 4-5 clues are going to spend the necessary time to search the area appropriately and work thru the rest of it methodically….
            As always JMO

  63. Loco: oh, no, I get the sarcasm. What I’m trying to say is that some searchers obviously HAVE figured out WWWH over the years, and furthermore at least some of them know it because they found the keyword. But just because you “nail down” WWWH doesn’t mean the golden ticket is immediately within grasp.

    • LOL!! “some searchers obviously HAVE figured out WWWH over the years, and furthermore at least some of them know it ‘

      Zap, you are one hundred percent correct there. There are/have been so many that I quit keeping count several years ago! Here is one of the latest: https://forum.hintofriches.com/forum/the-hint-of-riches/50105-confirmation-of-wwwh#post50105

      You are in fine company…..but ya better hurry, they are gaining on ya! O_O

      (all in fun, zapster…..good luck to ya and the rest of your club)

    • Yo Zap…any questionably sarcastic remarks I post are always meant as just plain ole fun talk. Fenn has made some remarks that indicate that maybe some are aware of the first two clues…because they explained. I dare say though, they quite likely do not have the correct thoughts attached to their ideas moving forward with the rest of the clues. I’m in this for the long haul…and frankly(no offense frank) I am more interested in the solve to the puzzle…

      • Ken~ ‘ I dare say though, they quite likely do not have the correct thoughts attached to their ideas moving forward with the rest of the clues. ‘

        Right, No not that right, as wrong in a wrong turn, but correct. No not that they knew they had it correct, they didn’t know why it was correct, which means it was wrong. No not wrong, that they had the correct clues deciphered, only they didn’t know it… umm, I mean… Yeah what you said.

        • something like that ! Folks did get *there* with *their* thoughts…they just were not Fenn’s thoughts, so their thoughts took them away from the poem. Oh well….so, were they really right if they left?

          • On a serious note, ken.
            It is hard to imagine that, even though searchers have told fenn their clues and he knew they were correct… he felt ‘they didn’t know’ they had them correct or otherwise. I don’t care if it’s the first two or four clue that have been talked of, indicated, mentioned in order… It seems that there is a lot more to the couple first clues or even more clues than just a simply knowledge of where they are at and even physically being where they are at.

            Everyone is missing a very important detail, idea, “possibility” that has all hanging out to dry.
            Because apparently, as the years move on and more searchers get to the few first clues… it all ends the same way.

            As fenn said [paraphrasing] ‘need to think the right thoughts.’
            You say the riddle is the poem as; decipher all the clues and the poem’s riddle is solve. I agree to a small point that is a valid idea/concept. But, I think the riddle is actually the idea of [ the “important possibility” to fenn’s uncertain knowledge, no one has mentioned ]
            “Begin it where” ~ when vs. Begin it ~ our stomping…. imo its the catalyst of understanding, and where all have screwed up. Right at the start, beginning.
            The puzzle, riddle, call it what ya like, is the ‘location’ and for me, the entire poem jumps from past to present to past and even future by tense and word usages… all yell to me “riches [knowledge] new and old” ~ “the answers I all ready know”

            I think the “location” is of two places in the same exact spot… and no matter when in the future… it will be two places in the same spot, only the future spot might look slightly different than today, as it did before.

            LOL today’s fortune cookie post.

          • Hi Seeker;

            In the Rockies, many creeks or streams begin at glaciers. This is a “Location” WWWH. This is a “Birth Place” for these Warm Waters.

            If the place Indulgence is secreted is a place where these same “Warm Waters Halt” – or return to the earth – A place where they appear to die – in a way they are the same aren’t they? – All a part of the “Life-cycle” – We, as humans, have our “Life Cycle. The planet itself has its “Life cycle” – Just as a mountain valley might have its “Life cycle”.

            Is that what you are getting at?

          • Seeker…I hear your pain man. And yes…folks are definitely missing that *important possibility*. And also yes…I do maintain that there is an overlaying answer, key, or what have you to the whole shebang, poem, riddle, puzzle, cluster. Once the first clue is NAILED this *important possibility* will lead the way…and satisfy that “certainty beforehand” comment. As for the rest of your scenario…maybe so, maybe partially….maybe not. I believe there are more than two places the clues refer to….that is just what makes sense to me, today.

          • JDA ~’Is that what you are getting at?’

            I don’t like the words life cycle. Maybe the more popular idea would be history as to geography of the land.

            In a nutshull, what I suggesting is, the reason no one knew they had the correct WWH from the poem is the possibility we need to “imagine” the land at the time “warm water[s] halt[ed]” and work from there and not so much now in this time… not unlike someone 1000 yrs down the road would have to read the poem automatically.

            I think we are simply taking it for granted fenn used [our] present time line to present the clue’s references. It’s kinda an ego trip that we think this challenge was only meant for us in this time and era… but fenn was looking down the road… I just wonder if the clues live on a two way street.

            Look at it this way… fenn is an archeologist [ even though with no college degree or specialized training or is a card carrying member ] he has stood side by side with them, again them, and held his own. fenn’s kick off was finding a 2000 yr old arrowhead and wonder who what where how it became. [imagination, of curiosity, to learn of and explore about]

            Are we thinking the right thoughts-?- that is is about merging of today’s waterways or a lake or creeks or even a glacier that is still present? or do we need to learn what WWH is by knowing “where” WW Halt[ed].
            Begin it where to me is the same as once upon a while. Both represent the past. hence “If you have ‘been’ wise and ‘found’ the blaze… both meaning past tense, while wise and found refer to discovery and discover means know of.

            So the same two places, is stated above, are of time and imagination takes over from there. We see what it is today… the future will see it then… how does fenn see it all?

            Even riches “knew” and old have a past and present, even a future overtone to it
            [“knew” is just a play on words, because riches can mean of knowledge ]

            If you find a pointed rock and never ‘knew’ of stone projectiles, is it an arrowhead or just a pointed stone, line of thinking.

            fenn used the word ‘learn’ about WWWH. He could have just said; you need to find WWH. Why did he use learn?… you know, from the guy who all call a wordsmith.

            No the more I think about it, I don’t like ‘cycle of life.’ That seems to imply a repeating action. ‘I think’ we only need to know of the beginning… and how it all unfolds with what is now, and / or in the future’s now, then.

          • Thanks Seeker.

            I appreciate the long answer. I hope I understand.
            The area I search, like many areas in the Rockies, was created by a glacier – It carved the valley into what it is today between 1.8 million to 11,700 years ago. The glacier grew, until it was at the front edge of the valley, and then slowly retreated. During this process, it carved out the valley into what it is today. At two points, it was where I think Indulgence is secreted. Once as the glacier grew, and once as it retreated. The glacier is now far up the mountain. With global warming, the glacier may someday disappear completely. What will the spot look like 10,000 years down the road? – Who knows? Maybe a new ice age will start, and the same thing will happen again, or maybe it will again become part of an inland sea, or a desert – who knows? I certainly do not, but I can imagine – and that is the fun part –

            Thanks again for your reply – JDA

          • One more comment.

            You make a good point Seeker. At one point – say as the glacier was retreating – The glacier had already done its “Carving” – now it is in retreat. At the spot where I think Indulgence is secreted, maybe this “Spot” was at the front edge of the glacier. Maybe there was a waterfall here, from the melting ice. It was the place that WWH and/or Water High spot. This waterfall had an effect on the landscape, just as any waterfall has on the landscape today. Looking at this spot, yes, it is easy to see how there could have been a waterfall here – One can also see where it had once been – another “Water High” or WWWH spot 200′ lower down the valley – – – and the glacier retreated on up the valley – carving out “I was here” spots all the way up the valley. What a fascinating story it tells. Just letting my imagination run wild – JDA

          • I dunno, Seeker, I think you’re asking way too much of the poem, to expect it to bear that combined load of information and aesthetics.

            If the “one important possibility related to the winning solve” that he’s surprised no one has analyzed is –

            “the possibility we need to “imagine” the land at the time “warm water[s] halt[ed]” and work from there and not so much now in this time…”

            well then, I’m shocked that he’s surprised no one figured *that* out. (I’m still not sure I know what you’re trying to say.)

            I suspect there’s an element of marketing spin in those early searchers figuring a clue or two and maybe getting a little closer than a football field is long, so I don’t worry on it. I’m sure it had a plausible core of fact, and it definitely roused the troops. But it hasn’t really changed over time, or even maintained vitality, as it would if it were a real living growing thing.

            Having been told to simplify, we’ve heard a couple of useful simplifications steadily repeated in different forms for the past couple years – find the first clue, map the locations; find the first clue, the poem is a map; find the first clue, map the locations.

            Asked last year how folks were coming along figuring out those clues:

            ff – “I don’t know that anybody has told me the clues in the right order.” *[huh?]* “I think part of the problem is they don’t, don’t focus on the first clue. If you don’t know where the first clue is you might as well stay home.”

            It’s not easy simply because there’s no way to measure progress – no feedback, and in fact, there IS no accumulated incremental progress, it’s not like “in 5 years a good searcher should expect to be up to the 3rd clue.”

            No complaints, it’s just what it says on the tin – “Your destination is small, but its location is huge.”

            It’s both or neither.

            Jake

          • Nicely worded JAKraven. I agree with you’re scented mints.
            I suspect you are correct with the *marketing spin*. I had that exact same thought about the infamous *maybe four clues* comment…a rally the troops trumpeting of sorts.
            Another take away point that has been causing an itch for a bit is Fenn’s ” I don’t know…right order.” It may be a tell in how to look at the poem…or why folks have left the poem. Maybe the wording is such that it seems one way but is actually the other?

          • Ken,
            You stated:
            “Another take away point that has been causing an itch for a bit is Fenn’s ” I don’t know…right order.” It may be a tell in how to look at the poem…or why folks have left the poem. Maybe the wording is such that it seems one way but is actually the other?”

            IMO, your “right order” comments are spot-on. Recall Forrest’s comment about (paraphrased) “reading the clues in the poem and study maps of the Rockies and try to marry the two.” Did F design the poem in a way that searchers MAY be able to correlate too many ‘marriages’ between presumed clues and map(s)?

            F has reiterated there are “nine clues in the poem.” What if our marriages between clues and maps exceed nine? Actually, considering F’s “GE cannot help with the last clue” comment, some will infer that we should have eight marriages made and one clue that is as yet uncorrelated. If so, we must still identify a clue that will, IMO, provide some insight into what we should expect to see once BOTG. Too, this creates a double unknown.

            If we have exceeded nine, must we then go back and determine which are not actual clues? Is it now a process of elimination through trial and error? Is this (one of) F’s implication(s) with his “right order” comment?

            Just guessin’ around.
            Joe

          • Hi Joe;

            You bring up a couple of interesting points. You say:
            “F has reiterated there are “nine clues in the poem.” What if our marriages between clues and maps exceed nine? Actually, considering F’s “GE cannot help with the last clue” comment, some will infer that we should have eight marriages made and one clue that is as yet uncorrelated. If so, we must still identify a clue that will, IMO, provide some insight into what we should expect to see once BOTG. Too, this creates a double unknown.

            If we have exceeded nine, must we then go back and determine which are not actual clues? Is it now a process of elimination through trial and error? Is this (one of) F’s implication(s) with his “right order” comment?

            Question #1 is “What are the clues?” And,” Does each clue have a “Place” associated with it?”

            For me, and others will not agree, and that is OK.
            #1 = BIWWWH – ATIITCD – has a place
            #2 = NFBTFTW – has a place
            #3 = PIBTHOB – has a place
            #4 = FTINPFTM – has a place
            #5 = TEIEDN – has a place
            #6 = TBNPUYC – has a place
            #7 = JHLAWH – For me two places
            #8 = IYBWAFTB, LQDYQTC = Has a place
            #9 = BTSWMG, JTTCAGIP – Same place as #8

            So, in my solve I have nine clues, and I end up with nine places, but they do NOT match up one-for-one. Does this mean that I have counted something wrong? I do not think so. JMO – JDA

          • JDA,
            IMO, Forrest’s ‘clues/map/marry’ comment leads to correlating a clue with a geographic feature, and a feature may be large or it may be a spot (coordinates). I happen to believe that a number of clues (features) may combine to identify a spot – but that’s just me. I hope I didn’t come across as proclaiming to have the right approach. We’re all in the same boat: we make our best guesses and go forth to prove to ourselves we are right or otherwise – no exceptions. IMO, no searcher should feel the need to prove a thing to anyone but him/herself.

            The primary point in my previous comment was to highlight the possibility of more presumed or presupposed clues than implied (by Forrest) – FWIW.

            Good luck to you – safe travels.
            Joe

          • Go for it Joe – Believe in yourself – believe in your solve – Good luck to Ya’ JDA

          • Jak,

            I don’t want to repeat a lot of my thoughts in the post… lol don’t really want to type that much… so I’ll use this comment as an example;
            – “Your destination is small, but its location is huge.”

            You say; it’s both or neither.
            I assume you mean the location should be of a large acreage and the destination is of a small places. You use huge as a size, and that is understandable, yet does fenn mean that to be meant as a size or of importance-?- the location is huge?

            I can see it both ways, but both ways need to be thought-out before dismissing.
            Two examples; [scenarios, theories]
            Should “take it in” not be a movement, but a view, huge can be that view down a ‘large’ ‘enormous’ canyon, line of thinking. Yet, we don’t move from the small destination we’re at.
            Or
            Huge just means of importance, or as fenn answered a Q&A about the place being admired… he twisted the idea using meanings and synonyms of ‘admire’ and changed …” The word means approval or high regard. So it works. I sure feel that way or I would not have hidden it there. I like the way you think Andrew. f ”

            So just out of curiosity, would the word ‘huge’ meaning; popular, important, a big deal, line of thinking change the idea that the “small destination” is just that small and huge; as held in high regards?

            We.. you, I, others can jump to any conclusion we want to… However, I’m attempting to utilize the ATF to see what fenn sees. I mean, while several, more than several, many etc. have the first two clues and many on site and most if not all on site went right by everything… I don’t think ‘huge’ is meant as acreage… especially miles… and more to what fenn thinks of his special place.

            He did say folks will be surprised, given the thought that we should say, what took me so long, and another comment that has been eating at my britches…
            ~“I thought it was the most atrocious thing that I’d ever done. But in the back of my mind I told myself if I’m sorry tomorrow I can go back and get the treasure chest.”

            Why in the world would he be sorry and go back to get the chest? LOL I can’t find a good meaning for “atrocious’ anywhere. Unless fenn truly holds the ‘small destination’ in such high regards… huge.

            IMO, this reminds me of the Q&A when fenn asked the searcher to look up the word ‘several’ because many don’t understand the words we use everyday.

            But yep, it can be just a big old plot of land, I guess, and we need to drive and stomp all over to nine place to get a small destination.

            LOL, don’t mind me, I’m just over analyzing and thinking too much…my bad!

          • Yo Joe…My comment about the itch was just pointing out that Fenn used the words *clues in the right order*(close enough). This seems to indicate that folks have and continue to share their idea of clues with him. His comment also seems to imply that these shared clues may be out of sequence according to how Fenn thinks. Regardless of how many were shared…they were not correct in order. This kicks me in the shins…not sure why.
            You jumped straight to maps(I like maps) and Fenn’s comment/s about marrying clues to maps. Sounds sumptuous….I just remember one of Fenn’s early comments about GE and maps. 2/3/2013 6Q’s
            “…What I didn’t expect was the number of people who immediately started searching maps and Google Earth to locate their special spots.” huh?
            This comment seemed to start his maaannnyy comments about maps. It seems like an after thought/something overlooked, or not original to his methods or intentions. He even states that he did not need a map or anything to write the poem. Now…maps and GE are on his tools list. hmmm? And the heart of many threads and Fenn’s comments are mapful.
            I’ll end this nonsense with this; response to *Outta Here* “Stop arm chairing that thing to death and get out in the trees where the box is, but before you go, look at the poem as if it were a map, because it is, and like any other map, it will show you where to go if you follow its directions.” May 4 2017 hmmm
            Nobody knows nuthin’ until the treasure is located and retrieved…and that ain’t happenin’ until that pesky first clue is nailed *down*.

          • Hi Ken;

            Love the quote – I see a double entendre in it. Does anyone else see it? – JDA

  64. Jake,

    Earlier you said/reminded folks (me); “No complaints, it’s just what it says on the tin – “Your destination is small, but its location is huge.””

    Thank you for that quite/reminder as I was beginning to have doubts. My location is both HUGE in terms of size, but also creatively, not to mention recognition, and with the bonus being that it doesn’t face N, E, S, or W.

    Thank you…….Pinatubocharlie

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