Scrapbook One Hundred Sixty Six…



Graveyard Logic

At an opening in our art gallery during the mid-eighties, I met a nice young
married couple. They were in their twenties or so, and I’m sure of that.
People smiled at the sight of them walking around, holding hands, and
munching on the finger things we had near the wine cooler. In subsequent
weeks I saw them infrequently around town, whispering to each other, and
holding hands, a sure sign of impending problems.

I don’t remember her name, so for some subliminal reason probably, I’ll call
her Angel. She was walking toward me one day as I departed the bank on
Palace Avenue. Her eyes were red, her hair was a gnarling muddle, and she
was sobbing uncontrollably. I was startled.

When we stopped to talk, and as she smeared a hankie across her face, she
explained what a bad person her ex-husband was and that she would never
recover from what he did to her. “It’s been two months, you know.” No, I
didn’t know, but that was okay.

After a long coffee respite at the Plaza Cafe, her emotions subsided
somewhat. I learned that Angel was a professional potter who was trying to
support herself in a failing market. I felt terrible, and wondered what I
could do to help.

Finally, it came to me. I told her to go make her divorce in the form of a
pot, “because we’re going to have a funeral.” She started laughing and
hugged me, then laughed and hugged me some more. The spell of doom was
broken and she hurried away to her studio.

Well, ten days later I was digging a hole at the north end of room block two
at San Lazaro Pueblo. It was beside a pre-historic path that led down to the
clay mine. Angel was sniffling into her hankie. It had been an awkward
forty-five minute drive as I had tried desperately to concentrate on the

She had made the ugliest pottery thing I have ever seen. It was about 18″
high, 10″ across, and it reeked with dismal black figures that had sharp
edges. The iron nails that she had driven periodically around that poor jar
had been mostly destroyed and were crumbling as a result of the
high-temperature firing. Angel had written her ex’s name in big black
letters, but I am sure it was misspelled. “Ferd,” it said. I wondered what
that was all about.

After she threw some things into the pot, I put the lid on, placed it
reverently into the ground, and covered it up with dirt. Then she started
piling rocks on the grave. She kept piling them on. I suppose maybe she was
afraid that somehow her divorce would get out of the hole.

Leaving her alone to conduct the funeral, I walked back to wait in the car.

Well, I’ve never heard such carrying on. It was so loud! There was yelling
and sobbing and singing, and screaming maledictions. She spit out a few
words, the definitions of which I was not cognizant. During one loud scream
I heard the word “Fred,” and I think the blossoms started falling from a
nearby cholla cactus. I quickly rolled my car windows up.

Twenty minutes later, we were driving home. Angel was giggling and her hair
looked nice. All of a sudden she rolled the window down, threw her hankie
out, and looked at me. She just looked at me and smiled. That’s all! Wow,
once in a while I do something really good. f





278 thoughts on “Scrapbook One Hundred Sixty Six…

  1. Perfect solution! Nice.

    It would be nice to have an angel in your pocket to pull out whenever needed. Or maybe a genie!

  2. Fun story, Forrest. Seeing the pile of rocks with the arrow has caused me considerable anxiety… I am now chomping at the bit, so to speak, to put boots-on-the-ground and get out there (not San Lazaro, obviously) and search for your treasure chest. Northern New Mexico is still snow-covered. Dang!

  3. Anything that lets a person move on in forgiveness is a good thing I think.

    I was driving down the road the other day and a church had a huge sign up that said “Forgive your enemies. It messes with their head.” Now I don’t go to church, but I found it odd… and I must admit I smiled too.

    Personally I forgive because I’m selfish and don’t want to carry the anger anymore.

  4. Yeah, sometimes it hurts when we want to be forgiven but the person isn’t around for us to say we are sorry. That’s why I think forgiveness of others is important–it’s really asking forgiveness for our own actions. It is said the holier a person is, the more they realize they need forgiveness. So it’s a good thing.

  5. Great story!
    I’ve had my fair share of moments at not being the best person I could be, and moments at being the best I can be. There is a balance I guess. We’re all human. I’m glad Angel was able to put the bad moments of Fred behind her, and move on to better ones, That’s what makes a person human. That’s what make someone a better human.
    Reminds me of a guy I know. He was taken for granted, and cherished that person who betrayed him. He made sure that he let everyone know about it too, but I knew deep down inside he stilled cherished her, and so did he. Because those great memories with her, outlasted the terrible ones.
    I guess we are just wired to forgive, but not forget. Well most of us I suppose.
    I’m happy you shared this story. It sheds simple light on who we are.

    I have to ask though, since this is Scrapbook #166, does this have any kind of connection to the poem, since the poem is 166 words? I kinda was hoping you were saving this story, for this scrapbook, and it subliminally hinted at something. Lol. It’s worth a shot.

    Keep on keepin on FF.


    • C’mon Hammer there is nothing subliminal about this. Scrapbook 166 spills the beans. The chest is buried 18″ deep under a 10″ cairn that is two blocks from a prehistoric trail. You must be brave to find it among the jumping Cholla Cactus.

  6. Rock Cairn! A Cairn is also a terrier . Isn’t Tesque a terrier?

    Also Cairn comes from old archaic meaning. Some of the first where used in Europe and called Brown Willy which translates to hill of swallows.

    Also used as markers for the dead on side of road called Fieis de Dues or Fairy of the night. That is obviously French . The word is also used for any unknown person of the grave. Just like the unknown French soldier!

    Fluer de lis, Fieis de Dues. So is it Iris/ Lily or Fairy or Swallow and spit we should be connecting with this? Stillwater and Cliff swallow are next to each other just North of Custer National in Montana. Just thinking out loud

    A lot to take in here!!!

  7. Yes, you did something good, Forrest. Sometimes a smile can say it all. I like the looks of that rock pile, too.

      • Good catch… I like the other obsolete…journey or expedition. Maybe he went on a journey and left her behind….

      • Seeker, great catch.

        Interesting also that Forrest said he placed it reverently into the ground.

        Fear also means to be in awe or reverence to a deity. Example given is Fear of God.

        Reminds me of a chapter in TTOTC . I believe it’s about fly fishing the Madison. He talks a lot about reverence. And we all know he wants you to feel Awe when you open the chest.

        Interesting also is Cholla, means upper round part of head. I think of ambience like atmosphere, coxcomb, crest, Canopy, dome, vault. Or also Chief, guide, principle.

        Lots of good stuff, but where physically does this connect?

        Like scrapbook 107 I need to not run out of gas from the atmosphere before I find that beautiful sky, or asphalt parking lot:-)

      • Ok, this just keeps getting weirder.

        The girls name is Angel and if she puts black letters ferd ( means to fear a deity) on the pot or as Forrest says jar, what does that mean?

        Is it Angel fears God? Yes they do for reverence. The atmospheric(ambience) gas that surrounds the Cholla( round upper part of head) would be a HALO. Just like the floating hat Forrest wore in the pic.

        Ok , then keep is to save or savior. Just like the scrapbook of the ship his nephew dove off of, And Lucky Luciano ,who he references in the preface TFTW, real name is Salvadore Luciano. Salvadore means Savior. And in the recent scrapbook where Forrest says he wants to be on the top of a hill a look up waiting for his Candy Ann( paraphrase). Means he is waiting for his Savior to arrive.

        Also Forrest refers to the pot above as a Jar. And in the chest is the autobiography sealed in an olive jar. Olive branch is the symbol of peace. Peace is in poem. Keep(save) is in poem. Good as in Shepherd is in poem. Old and New as in testaments is in poem. Meek is in poem.

        Seriously people, I cant make this stuff up. Its right here in black and white that he is saying to us.

        Everyone look at map page 99. Under the arm the second person walking he is carrying a picture of the Virgin Mary. Now look at Minnie Lake Montana. Notice the island in the middle. Sure looks like the same to me. Anyone else see it?

        • Also searchers, Florence is fleur de lis. The symbol for the Virgin Mary. The little girl. She knows all because she sits on the top of the tree of life.

          Forrest also referenced fluer de lis on the lock on Jenny’s site as well as a weekly words about Berry. The crest or flag for Berry is also the Fluer de lis. Florence is in Italy but French influenced name and kingdom for quite some time. It was a Napoleonic kingdom at one time.

        • Great stuff DPT! Or angel fears ferd? As in afraid of the journey ahead? Also interesting is FERD=red F! A while back i had posted: dye, cairn, alow or below a colored rock pile. The numbers also 10 block 2. Block is square, 10 squared is 100. Possible he’s taking you there and showing direction or distance?IMO

          • Interesting John!

            A cairn is a pile or heap of rocks. That’s just how Forrest explains his rescue. Waving his hands like a windmill next to a pile of rocks.

            Its in a scrapbook, Forget which one but he recollects the rescue and talks about it in a story.

        • DPT,
          Seeing is not always believing… I personally have to take into consideration fenn stating “Knowing about” Bible Verse etc. will not assist in finding the chest. He has also stated he is not religious, but he is spiritual. Fenn uses the mountains as his church… imo a more physical tangible place for reflection or peace of mind, if you will.
          Although I do like the way you line your thoughts up. I wonder if those thought are those tangents fenn warns of?
          With all that said… IMO this might be a good explanation;

          ‘Spirituality refers to the evolutionary process as it drives us forward, eventually, to perfect wholeness. It relates to the expansion or evolution of consciousness. And, thus all activity-be it physical, emotional, intuitional and so forth-that leads towards greater perfection, goodness and wholeness is therefore spiritual. The scientist working, for example, on a cancer cure is involved in spiritual work, as is the diplomat attempting to bring harmony between warring parties or the artist seeking to create a beautiful masterpiece for enhancing the quality of life.’

          • I agree with you Seeker. I have read the same about Forrest. I see so many connections with fear and reverence and Angel all Forrest words above.

            What do you see as the meaning of this? Curious to hear your connection Seeker.

            I have no bias either way. I only search for the truth.

          • DPT.
            No bias as well… I’m reaching here really. There are many thoughts that run through my head… some as simply as, the chest is under something out of sight. Others are of fenn’s comment [pinyon nut] but what he stated just prior… to recover or heal [ can’t remember exactly ].

            There’s no doubt in my mind fenn enjoys the mountains for many reasons, one might be, his spiritual refuge. It is the place where he intended to spend his last moments, right? That alone speaks volumes to me.

            But in the above it seems to relate to burying your burdens or loads. To move on to a better place in one own spiritual emotion… for lack of a better term.
            That’s about as philosophical BSing as I’m willing to guess. lol.

          • Seeker, thanks and I enjoyed your input. Very insightful. I wish I knew more to tell you about the story above but it perplexes me as well.

            In response to your question I think Chase and thrill are important words. I think we are chasing a chest and possibly Forrest.

            Now the word Chase means to pursue or follow in a hurry. Like running man or possibly why he likes to include his DASHund

          • DPT,
            The title ‘Thrill of the Chase’ is more than just a title in my mind. I don’t think we’re chasing fenn at all to be honest… where chase the same thing he is/has done…and… imo, if someone can get clarity on what that truly is, they will have solved the mystery behind the poem.

            Well that’s what my magic 8 balls is telling me.

  8. What a wonderful (and original) act of kindness on Mr. Fenn’s part. I can only imagine some intrepid adventurer digging up that pot 500 years from now and trying to figure out what ancient ritual involved the Ferd.

  9. I have to applaud the photographer. It is extremely hard to get a photo of a white arrow. Normally one will capture a white arrow in a shot of deep space, and one will see photos of white arrows in astronomy books from time to time. But to capture a white arrow in a desert shot is quite rare and unusual. That photographer must have been quick on his feet, and great with a camera. I am adding this picture of a white arrow to my collection. Thanks so much.

      • That is funny! And yes, rare.

        Now look above the arrow. What is that anomaly? A wormhole? A stairway to heaven? A brightly lit “black hole?” Some sort of digital censorship?

        Just curious…

          • Did it, nice. Did you notice the other arrow to the right? Magnify to 800% I don’t think it was added on purpose but a smudge maybe, pointing at the shadow of the mine trail.

          • Oz, yes, there are a few arrows, some seemingly purposeful. It seems like almost none of the shadows make sense. If you look a little above and to the right of the white arrow, you see what I think look like two bug eyes–the bug eye on the right has what looks like a pencil line drawn down to end in another arrow with a circle around it.

            This photo is full of words, but by now F knows that’s what we’re looking for, so who knows whether he’s just playing or not?

          • I saw those too. Like owl eyes. I think this picture was scanned into a jpeg and maybe that will explained that bright spot on top and some other things. On the picture properties you can see it was already “fixed” on Photoshop. File name SL101.

    • Any other color and the coolorblind might miss that arrow. I had trouble seeing Cynthia’s arrows. 🙂

  10. Good job FF. R.I.P. ‘Ferd’!
    (Could this be a hint that the chest might be buried and may or may not be covered with a rock or rocks??)

  11. Thanks Forrest,, sounds like she made a voodo pot out of him with all those nails.. You sure get yourself in some amusing situations.
    Thank you for all the fun things you share with us, now im looking for a rock marker..

  12. Maybe her name was Isabella. 🙂
    And interesting picture. I would love to walk that pre-historic trail to the clay mine.

  13. This is classic. I thoroughly enjoyed the story! The next time that I run into a Fred, I will secretly giggle about Ferd! Thanks for making me smile, Forrest!

    • Good eyes Jenny. I didn’t notice at first how they look ground down on one side. There are so many… I wonder if it was a method used for construction purpose. Maybe FF could chime in a clear it up for us.

    • I think they are metates too. Discarded ones. A place to throw your old metates? People readily compared that poem about a ship in a shroud beneath the saline door crying up from the depths to a banshee but don’t think I’ve seen anyone suggesting the angel with the disheveled hair and red eyes carrying on crying, yelling, screaming at a rock cairn containing a pot with items inside symbolizing a divorce, all done in a metate graveyard is one. Curious.

  14. Quite an interesting story, with several lines and/or words in quotation marks.

    Very interesting. Lots of interesting words used as well. HUMMM???? JDA

  15. Thank you for this symbolic paragon of virtue and the surrender of a peaceful voyage back. Structurally inadequate yet ceramonisouly pleasing. In memorandum, peace withstood the sands of time.

  16. Can you imagine what the archeologist that uncovers that jar a hundred years from now will think!!!!

    Nice story ff, forgiveness is on of the most important tools to have.

  17. Dal, Goofy, or anyone familiar with photography… I’m curious what would cause the white smudge in the upper portion of the pic.?
    Normally I would say a reflection of light [ sun ] but the angle of the shadows don’t line up with that thought of being a light.
    Just curious…

    • I think the smudge of white is the aberration he wants you to see, but the important aberration is somewhere not as obvious. IMO.

    • Seek-
      I believe that is a scan from a paper photograph. That being the case it might be something on the print itself ( a stain or water mark),..or the glass surface of the scanner ( an oily smudge or fingerprint).

      I see what you are saying about the sun’s position and I agree that the sun seems too far behind the camera to cause lens flare…all the same If you don’t have a lens hood on your camera it doesn’t take much once that sun is low to get flare.

      But in the end…I don’t think it’s anything meant as a hint or a misdirection or a cover-up.

      • More than likely, one of your explanations is spot on… no pun intended… Also, this story took place in the mid 80’s, Who knows what happen during the development stage of processing the film. But now that you mentioned it … it does look like a photo-scan and maybe the original photo was slight bent or not laid out flat and caught the light… Anyways, I never thought there was anything to it… just another nice walk down memory lane.

  18. Sharing the elixir of that solitude is one of Redford’s greatest pleasures, as a host, an arts patron, and a father. Years ago, when his children were growing up, he encouraged them to go into the mountains for a day alone. They were allowed to take a sandwich, but nothing to read or to play with. His challenge to them was that of a treasure hunt, and the treasure was a sense of connection—through the wilderness—with themselves. “It was a challenge,” Redford explains, “that was part of every young Indian’s initiation into his culture.”
    Redford has studied Native American culture most of his life, and an Indian blessing opens each summer session of the Sundance Institute. “The Indians have a sense of balance—a sense of awe, humor and scale in relation to nature—that we lack,” he says.

  19. Forrest,
    You have said to several people in interviews ” you might as well ask me how deep is a hole ?” Here’s my chance…. how deep was the hole ?

    Have a great day…. see ya

    • Maybe the question should be… What does it take to fill a hole?
      The poem seems to take us on a journey. Maybe an emotional hole that is needing to be filled or fulfilled.

      Just rambling and rumbling.

  20. Imo FERD wasn’t a mistake!

    Ferd [ferd] as a boys’ name is of Old German origin, and the meaning of Ferd is “ready journey”. Ferd is a variant form of Ferdinand (Old German): the original variation is Ferdinando

    • “FERD” is also a type of soil. In fact, it is the New Mexico State Soil, also known as the Penistaja. Coincidentally, it is brown, has a high concentration of clay, and retains moisture well due to its clay content. The Penistaja occurs commonly throughout Northern New Mexico.

  21. Subliminal = below threshold
    Forrest discussed threshold stones with his beautiful friend Suzanne Summers in the San Lazaro Pueblo video.

  22. I find it interesting that the title of this SB is “Graveyard Logic”.

    This brings to mind the old arguments about whether the TC is buried or not.

    At one time I thought that it was IN water, now I do not.

    I have never thought that it was buried, but this “story” gives me pause,
    to at least consider the possibility. If one knows (from the poem) Precisely
    where to look – why couldn’t it be under a rock, and a bit of dirt at that Precise location? Makes sense to me. Just something to think about – JDA

    • JD
      Forrest made reference to mud? Without water mud would be just dirt? Technically it wouldn’t be buried if rocks are piled over the hole? It would be hidden imo?

      The title is called Graveyard logic but from what I gather the peblos are ruins and not a graveyard or is it?

      • William;

        Forrest has made mention of mud in three different posts that I know of, and he has said that it is wet.

        If Forrest placed it in a hole, it may have filled slowly with water. He puts in a little dirt – which turns to mud – he puts a rock over the top of the chest. Water + dirt = mud + a rock on top – who knows.

        Why would it not be buried if rocks were placed on top? Almost every western movie I evert saw has a scene in which someone is buried, then rocks are placed on top to keep out the “varmits” (sp) JDA

        • Interesting theory. We know he made two trips. Maybe one with the chest & contents and the second with a bucket of mud(?)
          The Pueblo people used mud as mortar and plaster to build their homes.

    • JDA,
      I think he hesitates to use the word “buried” for a reason. It could be “secreted” in mountain man trapper fashion, in the middle of a corral, or a slight rise in a landscape. It could be stored in the fashion the ancient Pueblo Indians stored food in jars (pots) in a hollowed out space underground with a threshold or other flat rock covering it. Or stored like the shaman medicine men hid their sacred ritual items in a hole in the wall at San Lazaro, then sealed the wall to make it look (almost) like the wall surrounding it.

      So, buried with being technically buried.

      • And then there’s the use of the word “sub” again in “subliminal.” He’s also a frequent user of “subterfuge,” “sublime,” “subway,” “subtle,” “submariner,” and others.

        Sub gives the impression of “hidden under.”

          • I’m not sure…he said she walked to him when he departed, and “departed” could mean “died,” so maybe she looked how many imagine an angel appearing upon death–garbed in white, blonde hair, blue eyes. Or maybe because her eyes were red, her name was Seraphina. He said at the end her hair was fixed, but nothing about her eyes returning to normal…lol.
            Seraphim were called “burning ones.”

  23. She must be an angel,
    Those rocks look pretty big & very heavy.
    Determination may overcome physical abilities.

      • Must be bionic gloves Clee,
        Those are some pretty big rocks angel placed.
        I wouldn’t want to mess with her.

  24. Ferd= vessel, ferry. Angel is using it as a ‘vessel’ to bury memories or as a ‘ferry’ to transport them to the other side or away from her. After all that is what ‘Graveyard Logic’ is. Also, word-play, she could be saying her ex- (Fred) was twisted inside -ferd-

    I like his writing style: “for some subliminal reason probably, I’ll call
    her Angel. She was walking toward me one day as I departed”
    And this one: “Angel was a professional potter who was trying to support herself in a failing market”. That’s good.

  25. love the story…but theres one thing I don’t get…how did they go right by Kozlowskis Trading Post without stopping in to talk turquois or grab an authentic souvenir?

  26. I think this post relates to using your imagination as he has mentioned many times. Although Mr Fenn has said that the chest is not hidden in a graveyard, to stop people digging up real graves, I believe it is hidden in something that resembles a cemetery, if you use your imagination. That’s my opinion anyway. Good luck everyone.

  27. Just a couple of observations:
    Is the fact that Fred is misspelled as “Ferd” a hint that Angel is also misspelled in the story, and should be “angle”?

    Note that “Angel was sniffling into her hankie”. Then later it says “Angel was giggling and her hair…”. There is a double letter word followed by two “h”‘s in both sentences— and each sentence mentions a period of time spent driving before or after each sentence. Is a “series” of thought being presented to us in a subtile manner?

    Lastly— notice how three sentences begin:

    “At an opening…”

    “Well, ten days later I was digging a hole…”

    “Well, I’ve never heard…”

    Hey, whatever happened to Stealth? Wasn’t he the one who thought the treasure was hidden in a well? :). Happy hunting!!

    • See and here I thought she meant that it had been two months since they’d been intimate given her disposition…

  28. Forrest,
    You took time to care for someone who was basically a stranger, that is a beautiful thing to do. Thank you for sharing, you made me smile too.

  29. enjoyed reading that small moment.

    I once drove past two Nuns with a flat tyre, on a busy country road.
    After turning around and offering to change the wheel for them, I was surprised to find they were both about three feet tall
    – well, maybe four most.

    They happily directed me in finding their spare wheel in the trunk, to which I spontaneously enquired as to whether I was likely to find a dead body within said truck.

    They both laughed without hesitation or nervousness, and were safely on their journeys shortly thereafter.

    I quietly smiled for the remainder of the day.

  30. “Iron, put your fear to rest.”

    Funny what the human mind can string together if it so chooses 😉

    • Hey IW …you’ll be just fine. Things “will” turn out the way they should.
      I wasn’t going to mention it….but…” …the Iron nails she had put….were mostly destroyed….” . Of course those particular words were not aimed in your direction.
      Stay true man….and be safe.

  31. Ever wonder if Forrest just takes all those emails he gets, extracts a few words out of each of them, and writes a creative and completely new story based on what he was sent? One searcher sends him a solve involving angels, another talks about how his treasure represents marriage, another says they found iron nails in a graveyard, yet another mentions his red hanky or his palace on the sands. He just takes all that and writes a story that includes all of them.

    It’s certainly plausible, and, frankly, it would be a lot of fun to do so. I would probably do that if I were the fox.

    We are not the fox, though. We are the hounds. How do you all who say you find meaning in these stories discern meaningful from not?

    • Excellent point Jeremy ! The illusion creates the delusion…that keeps the barkers busy. The Fox has sat in the same spot the whole time…well rested and warm. There seems to be a whole slew that believe Forrest has been and continues sending them special messages…kind of creepy really.

    • Jeremy P. –

      “How do you all who say you find meaning in these stories discern meaningful from not?”

      Great question Jeremy P.. I do find most of f’s writings useful. For me SB 166 contains multiple hints. The reason I see hints in this SB and others is because they confirm what I see as *clues* in the poem. While it’s easy to find connections with so many things (the chase has proven this over and over) it’s only when an actual clue is solved that a hint will become evident. I used to and still do make sure that I’m not letting bias sway my thoughts. With that being said, there is a certain point where you can no longer deny the association of hints and clues.

      F is a master storyteller. Much more creative than many realize. Sure the stories are interesting but they also contain very useful information that will only be useful after solving clues. F is able to disguise the hints in his writings much like he hides them in the poem. IMO Forrest operates on a level that is deeper than most can comprehend.

      • HMA –

        Well you think you see a hint. That doesn’t mean there is a hint.

        Just pick one and tell us what it is. Then me Jeremy who have you can tell you what we think.

        I take Fenn at his word. The value IMO of the scrapbooks is that inform you about the man and what’s in his head. Jake stuff.


        • Lug –

          You are more than welcome to believe that SB’s or other writing don’t contain hints.

          I happen to believe differently. In regards to me telling you what I believe a hint in this SB is, it wouldn’t make any sense to you unless you have solved a clue in the poem. The beauty of the system is that f can write stories with hints but only those that have solved a clue or clues would have confirmation. I think you should ask yourself a question. Why does the creator of the chase continue to share stories and answer questions? It’s not just to keep the thrill of the chase alive. He has developed a method that will assist those that can figure out the clues.

          The finder/s of the chest will go to it with confidence. There is a reason the finder/s will have confidence and not just hope that they have solved the poem.

    • Jeremy, sorta like Kaiser Soze in the Usual Suspects movie. I thought of that too.
      There is a high possibility of that in my opinion. Probably it is why he says “wish I could’ve had lived to do the things I was attributed…”

    • That’s a really good poin Jeremy. That is very plausible. Whatever he is doing it sure makes for a lot of fun! 🙂

    • Jeremy –

      He has said there are no clues in the emails and he said over a year ago he would offer no more clues.

      I don’t have the quotes buy someone will follow up and provide them. You don’t need them I am sure you have read both which is why I didn’t go to google.


  32. The ole coot helping another Damsil in distress And she threw her hankie out the window what a litter bug

    • Diggin – You are very observant. We both know that f would stop and pick up the hankie because he would not allow his paradise to be littered. I think it’s safe to say that this SB contains some fiction. 🙂

      • Ever heard of that cartoon Dudley Do Right all the woman get tiied to the train track and dudley comes to the rescue hahah

  33. Totally agree with HMA. This scrapbook contains multiple hints (as do others), IMO, and yet I probably would not have recognized them a year or two ago.

    As a story, though, it is both amusing and poignant. Do I detect a whiff of atonement?

    • Vox –

      Same thing I said to HMA.

      You see a hint and that doesn’t mean it’s a hint. You see several right?

      Just tell us about one and we can tell you what we think.


      • Lug you keep trolling – asking Vox and HMA what they think are hints. Have you no ideas of your own? Do you have to rely on others to show you the hints? You are pretty transparent my old friend. Not a criticism, just an observation of another Old Fart – JDA

        • JDA, I agree. I’ve already made a suggestion just with one aspect of this story, but I’m not going to do other people’s work for them. I agree with HMA about the hints not making sense unless you’re already on the right wavelength.

        • JD –

          My friend you misunderstood.

          I do not believe there are any hints in any scrapbook. I want to hear the idea from the person that sews the hint so that we can have open discussion about how it’s not a hint.

          As Jake has pointed out previously if you see something that hints at a clue you already have you are doing it backwards. To put it another way that’s not a hint at all.

          I have lots of ideas and solves and I am writing an Armchair Adventure post to share all those ideas.

          Let me show you an example of something that is nonsense to me. In the poem the words are But Too Far Too Walk. Another time he referred to For Whom The Bell Tolls. An instance of the BTFTW appearing as first letters in consecutive words must mean that FF intends us to use those 4 letters. Crazy right?

          So I would like to hear what others see as hints or clues in order to discuss them. Instead we will never know.


          • Lug,

            Scrapbook 107 is one of the most talked about. IMO it is chock full of hints. I’ll take a really simple example from that SB. The jumbled cutlery tray that is straightened out. FF says the following:

            “And that’s not all, there’s always a write way to do something and a wrong one. Maybe I’m just too meticulous, but for me it’s important to keep my priorities straight.”

            To me there are two hints right there: that the path you take is straight forward (not necessarily straightforward), and that you need to do it the RIGHT way. This pair of hints is fundamental to solving the clues, IMO.

            Of course, you may not see it that way, and that’s fine, but there are too many hints to count spread across the SBs and other writings. If you’ve convinced yourself that FF writes all these rather odd articles purely to fill his time, I think the Chase may not be the best use of your own time.

          • Vox –

            You are right i do not see the SB107 straight as a hint.
            I am asking if you have a hint in a SB that directly informs you about a clue or helps you solve a clue.

            I am with Fenn by the way. Twisted cords drive me banco! I constantly rearrange glasses and silverware after my wife does the dishes and puts things away. I also face my money and my dry goods.

            Why would anyone put a can of beans in a cupboard turned so that the other person can’t read what it is? Answer that!


          • Lug, I used the poem to solve the clues – not the SBs or anything else (aside from a map). To be honest, I found other things too distracting. Despite the fact that certain SBs had lodged in the back of my mind, it’s only recently that I’ve actually been back over them and seen how the hints dovetail with the solutions to the clues. Was it HMA above (sorry, I’ve already forgotten) who stated that the SB hints become clear after you’ve solved the clues? I agree with that. I’m sure if you’re clever enough you could use the SBs alongside the poem to help you, but they work much better for me as confirmations.

            So the answer is that, yes, I see SB hints that inform me about certain clues, but no, I don’t have one that has helped me actually solve a clue. What I think FF is doing is to give subtle nudges so that you can see when you’re on track and when not.

            What I find difficult to understand is that someone would think a master puzzle craftsman is more likely to spend years writing about his cutlery, his spice rack (in great detail, I might add) the layout of his bathroom, his trip to the “MDV” etc., etc. and not be prodding and teasing his would-be puzzle solvers with hints and riddles.

          • Vox –

            I just go by what the man says. I genuinely believe him.

            We are having this discussion because sevelt commenters have said something like Ah if only you could see what I see. They are implying that I am too dumb to see things as they do. I think they are delusional and we would know if they would ever just tell us what the heck they are talking about.

            There are no hints to my way of scoring in these letters or scrapbooks. Everyone went nuts thinking Fenn wrote hints into Brett’s letter. Then Brett showed up. Zap went on to say that Fenn published Brett’s words because there were hints. Wow I mean wow wow!


          • Lug;

            You are letting your bias’ show. Here is what you said: “I do not believe there are any hints in any scrapbook. I want to hear the idea from the person that sews the hint so that we can have open discussion about how it’s not a hint.”…”About how it is NOT a hint”

            I am supposed to tell you what I think is a hint, just to have you try to shoot it down? Why would I want to do that?

            IF I told you what I thought was a hint, wouldn’t I want your validation, not your criticism?

            Honestly, when I post something it is for neither validation nor criticism. I do it because I think that what I have to offer MIGHT be helpful to some “newbie”.

            Forrest has had a number of posts within the past two months…far more than is normal. One has to ask “why”?

            Could it be because someone is close, but not yet “there”, and Forrest Loves the “game”, and want’s to “Play”?

            HMA, VOX and I have complete solves, along with at least six other people that I can count. WE all seem to be able to see the “hints” offered in these posts, yet you say that they are non existent.

            WE may very well all be suffering from our own delusions and biases…but we certainly are not asking for your input or ideas about how wrong or crazy we are. That is for each of us to decide.

            Your time could be much better spent in actually solving the poem, and coming up with a solve that MIGHT work, instead of trying to prove us wrong.

            Just my opinion, and backed up by at least two other “Solvers”. JDA

          • You’re right, of course, JDA. I started to right a very similar reply, but changed my mind to see what kind of refutation Lug can come up with (maybe I’ve nothing better to do on a wintry Sunday!). It always amazes me that when one person can’t see something that others can, that one person can continue to claim that it doesn’t exist. Take the blinders off, sir!

          • Hi JD –

            I am hours behind in reading through the hundred or so comments in my inbox and I almost hate to respond now since what I am about to say may have been covered hours ago.

            Anyway I mentioned to Zap a long time ago that someone posting a hint may be criticized OR they may get glory. I may say wow that’s so smart JD! HMA your a genius.

            But don’t worry about me worry about you. You don’t know that HMA or Vox see hints. You only know that they say they see hints. Once HMA says here’s a hint than you can say Hey wait a second I don’t consider that a hint.

            I have many solves and if you’re still up and writing after I read and comment on all these emails I will run a solve for you. It’s one I gave away lat year and the person that went out didn’t follow to the TC.

            Lugnutz working to catch up brothers!

          • P.S. Remember – all any of us has are opinions, and nothing more. If I were to tell you about what I think a hint is, all you could do is offer an OPINION supporting, or not supporting MY supposition. YOU can not change the way I think, nor can I change the way you think…so why bother trying to do the impossible? Would you – supposedly – proving me wrong somehow get you closer to the TC – I think not. JDA

  34. Btw, just as one small part of looking for hints, it could be worthwhile checking out a map of Santa Fe and seeing if you notice anything interesting when you read the story.

  35. The chest is somewhere in Climax canyon Park. I couldnt find it before my time ran out. IT is 485 ( and you take it 99 miles to the Cimarron Canyon (farther than 92 is too far to walk) put in the canyon below the Nest (home) of Moreno (Brown) valley. It ends up at Raton. Near climax canyon park lived Frank Emerson Nigh, the canyon is a draw to the left.

    The entrance is also the city of bethlehem ( f church is in the mountains after all) to the north is goat hill at night RATON is spelled out in bright red letters (look at the photos from the mvd story. The pen is the raton switchbacks. View from CO and all the silverware points up. AVAYA in all red at the top. Up u ceet? )

    There are hiking trails in here and its the site of an abandoned mine. From the trailhead you can see the path of angels down from the KT boundary trail above, down to the abandoned mine houses. At the trailhead you can see the wisemen at the stabke with baby Jesus. One trail is the red T and there is also an east loop. I found a 2 rock cairn marker on the west trail and walked down until I hit the creek. Searched high and liw but only found two hills of black coal tailings (tarry scant?). Took the red T to west loop until I saw an up arrow ( red tee c up…climbed to the top) marvel gaze certainly. No chest. I walked up and diwn the mountainside, but obviously I was missing something. Guess thats what I get for never having the book.

    Ive got tons of photos and all if my hints that tie in to the clues, i will get something up when I get home.

    Its been warm there but still snow on the ground and the creek is frozen. Best of luck everyone and don’t forget who shared this wealth of knowledge with you.

    • HP –

      Ok I thought you brought this up but I had to go way back to find it.

      Moreno does not mean Brown. Moreno is a hair color like brunette and that’s not the same as brown. Regardless the important thing to know is that most often the word Moreno is a derogatory way to refer to African Americans and other dark complected people. It’s not offensive but it also doesn’t mean brown. That has always been a stretch. So if something is a hint for Moreno and in turn you think that is a reference to home of Brown we disagree.

      Google it.

        • I should have said ask a person that speaks Spanish.

          a) Means that someone “Moreno” has a brown or dark skin… So you would say, “Ese hombre es moreno”, (“That man has brown skin”) Or “Esa mujer es morena” (“That woman is brunette”) While I know brunette is more applied to females than males… so that’d be “morena” (feminine)

          But if you all want to think that Mareno means brown feel free.

      • Lug and Humble=
        There is a Moreno Ranch in the Moreno Valley below Agua Fria. Years ago I spent a few days putting clues and hints together in that area. That was when I felt that NM had a chance of being the state where Forrest hid his chest. I can’t argue with what you say or the interpretation you use for moreno…but the bottom line is that when you use Google’s Spanish/English translator it tells you that moreno (small m) means Brown (capital B) in Moreno in Brown Valley That’s a pretty strong lead-in…
        So, many people are going to use it…or at least check it out…
        Google is a legitimate avenue for research with results that validate one’s belief that the Moreno Valley might be the HOB.

        • Dal –

          Sure people want to use Moreno for Brown and there are several. And several Agua Frias as well.

          Do you remember why some people search Cimarron? It was a mathematical solve. At least that was one of the ways people hit to Cimarron. To me that way was going against that Fenn says. And then if a person doing a crazy number solve is in the same valley as you maybe you should rethink your solve.

          As I explained to Jeremy after he retired. I take it in the Canyon Down past Angel Fire airport. That way I don’t end up in the Cimarron valley with four other search parties on the same day atbge same waterfall.

          It’s getting late in the Midwest

      • Lnutz

        when you say “Moreno is a derogatory way to refer..blah blah blah” ..then you say “it’s not offensive” – isn’t that a contradiction?

        language skills aren’t my strong suit admittedly, so maybe you can teach me how to be more intelligenter you

        • So a worker would say to me
          Why did you hire those morenos? They’re lazy.

          That’s an offensive use of the word even though the word itself isn’t offensive.

          The point is that the word is used to describe people and not buildings

      • Lug – Moreno, when used as an adjective, does mean brown. Moreno also means brunette…kind of like the pretty brunette in Sun Valley Gig. I always wondered if that was Peggy. As another aside, In SB 107, FF writes Homo Sapien (Sapien should not be capitalized). Following that logic, you could write Brown Bear. Por exemple. It’s tough when your inbox gets ganged like that. Hard to get caught up.

        • Sandyb & Lug, “Sapien” is another puzzling piece of ff’s master puzzle. IMO could be reference to “Apian” Way in Rome or…all roads lead to Rome/home state of New Mexico. Sun Valley – perhaps NM’s Zia or Native American sun burst on state flag. No idea about the brunette. Bruin is another name for bear. Could be a brown net camouflaging tc.

          Gig has some interesting definitions including 3 pronged spear E or fork, musical, etc

          • Andesite –

            I should have said this to Sandy and i’m sure she will see this. Among other things I am a certified horticulturist. People capitalize the second word in the taxonomy the species word. Homo Sapiens Erianthus Revenae

            Fenn spells words incorrectly in all his books. He publishes edits prints by himself or with little help.

            To be honest I think he actually likes it when he mispells because it’s drive everybody wild.


        • Hi Sandy –

          If you ask a Mexican how to say brown bear I think they would say oso pardo.

          I live in Chicago not mexico and here Mexicans that have worked with me only use Moreno when referring to people. People are of course more than welcome to use Moreno for Brown. I have a spreadsheet with more than 20 places named Moreno in the search area so good luck with that.

          While we are on it I have a solve that I have mentioned before that involves Oso Pardo as my HoB.

          Wingnut says I am getting to negative and I don’t mean to be. I just want people to share ideas so that we get closer to the goal.

          It is jut my person belief that folks chasing Moreno or Cimarron do so at there own peril.


          • Hi Lug – thanks for your comments, and I appreciate your thoughts. Here is what I have found, from Google translate:
            Translations of moreno
            (adjective): brown, marrón, pardo, dark, oscuro, negro. I didn’t copy all – you can look for yourself if you want. I’ve searched Cimarron extensively (5 or more times) and given that up. But I still think moreno can refer to brown as a color. Language usage changes over time.
            Anyhoo, I have also searched Oso Pardo area. Oso Pardo actually translates to “Grizzly”. What a beautiful ranch. However, the ranch is heavily patrolled just in case you think you want to wander around indiscriminately. Not a chance of that! But, still got Big Love for the Chama!

          • Hi Sandy –

            To be specific I would put in below Rancho del Oso Pardo of course.

            I do not advocate searching privately held land


  36. Hints off the top of my head-
    Black jack, maverick -cimarron canyon
    Saltpeter, 5 dollar canyon-485 past cimarron
    Road to Taos-485
    Stockton(clifton station aka red river station) google fenn and stockton see what hes doing with the emails? In this years update didnt he say he scans for keywords?
    Green, red and black peaks/mesas around the whole route.
    Fairmont-cemetery in raton
    Willow springs – read about the 25 cent water and think if river bathing
    KT boundary >iririum layer>from iris>rainbow
    Theres more but my computer is fried and my brain and body are wiped.

    • HP –

      I will respond about a couple of things here and I think you brought them up. Let’s start with a question. Why Cimarron? Cimarron refers to several places in the search area. Did you know that? Two of them almost couldn’t be further apart. There is a Cimarron valley in New Mexico that Jeremy likes. Cimarron NM may not be in the Rockies but heck maybe Forrest doesn’t know that. There is a Cimarron valley in Montana. How am I supposed to know which Cimarron you are referring to?

      If you mean the Red River Fish Hatchery I have that as a Home of Brown. I don’t know what scrapbook your saying hints at it. up there Cabresto means halter as on a horse. I have solves from the hatchery back down towards the Rio grande and also up to hear lake. Arsenic springs is a convenient WWH.


  37. And the 1000 bill 33 yrs 6 pct interest. 1000 x 1.06^33 is 6840 roughly the elevation of those wise men.

  38. Since Lug laid down the gauntlet and wanted a discussion, I hope he will come back to show me why the hints I set out from SB107 are not hints at all.

  39. SB 107 is really good. I also still enjoy #146. I do believe there are “hints” in the SB’s. They may not be hints about the clues themselves— but hints about HOW to look for them in the poem– if that makes any sense. 🙂

    • Sparrow –

      That’s how I see it.
      Everything Fenn writes can help us learn about him.


  40. Lug – as Vox stated, you have thrown down the gauntlet, to have a discussion.

    Since this is SB 166 – let’s discuss a couple of “hints” I found.

    1) Title of SB 166 = Graveyard Logic – Why this title?

    Graveyard = a place where the remains of dead people are buried or otherwise interred.

    ie – The place that the TC is buried or otherwise interred??? Is this possible?

    Logic = reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity.

    2) He calls her “Angel” one definition of Angel = Having the power of intelligence. Could Forrest be saying to look at this”Graveyard” -( a place of interment) with intelligence? Possibly.

    3) Why did Forrest place these words in quotation marks, “. “It’s been two months, you know.” Is there something special about 2 months ago. Forrest posted another SB and something on MW about two months ago.
    Are these important? – Possibly.

    4) Why this description, “as she smeared a hankie across her face”
    A strange description – SMEARED a hankie??? Very interesting. Forrest has mentioned a bandana once or twice before. Important???

    5) Why this description,”, her hair was a gnarling muddle” – again, strange use of words. Does it mean something. It does to me and my solve.

    6) Again, why are these words in quotation marks, ““because we’re going to have a funeral.” , and also “Ferd” and Fred” – all in quotes – why?? Why bring attention to these specific words? A “Hint” – Possibly.

    7) “…digging a hole at the north end of room block two…” Is the TC in a hole? Maybe. “North” of a particular spot? Maybe

    8) “18″ high, 10″ across” Why give us dimensions of her pottery? Strange!

    9) “, placed it reverently into the ground, and covered it up with dirt. Then she started piling rocks on the grave.” Could this be a description of how the TC is secreted? Could be???

    10) “Leaving her alone to conduct the funeral, I walked back to wait in the car.” Forrest “secreted (interred)” the TC and then walked back to his car…
    after he held a “funeral” for it????

    11) ” cholla ” = top of the head – a rounded knoll – etc. “Hints????”

    12) “Twenty minutes later, we were driving home” Is Forrest saying that the searcher could be back in his car within 20 minutes, if the directions are followed correctly? Works for me.

    I am not saying that I believe that all twelve of these “fit” my solve, but I am suggesting that these twelve listed items have the potential of being “Hints”.

    Can you refute my assertions Lug? How about a little discussion on each. You are so sure that Forrest’s postings DO NOT contain hints – Fire Away!


    • JD, I’ll discuss your points if you like. I’ll state what I believe this scrapbook is about and use your points. I do however want to state before I start, it is going to point to my belief that this scrapbook was directed to me, through the telling of a story, but it is only my opinion and not fact. All I can do to show why I believe this is to show evidence… so here we go:

      I sent an email January 30th to Forrest stating…
      “That’s scary! I have an early April deadline to stick to. Oh well, maybe he can work magic and be done by March 15th max. I just cannot wait any longer than the mid of April to retrieve that chest. I’m a fool for risking it all, waiting this long. Sorry, I don’t have a therapist to unload on so, you’re the next best thing :)”
      This scrapbook came out 4 days later. In that email, I was expressing my fear of waiting like I’ve been doing. And that it was taking slowly taking its toll on me.

      Your point about the quote “It’s been two months, you know”. — I emailed him the first time near the end of November, letting him know I knew exactly where it was, including key words he would understand concerning the final spot. That was two months ago from when he wrote this up (in the belief that he didn’t have this story laying around in his computer for months). I think it was an identifier to help me understand he was directing it to me.

      The iron nails all around the pot, I believe was another identifier to me, because I’ve never heard of nails in pottery.
      FERD of course can mean fear and coupled with the iron nails, “iron fears”
      My belief is that the overall message was, “Iron put your fears to rest”, to provide that therapy I spoke about

      Like I said, it’s just a theory offered in the discussion. I could be right, could be wrong. I’ve been wrong before, and if this is another instance, I’m sure it won’t be the last time. 😛

      • IW;

        Well, it sure could be you that he is directing this post to. Good luck. I could tell a similar story, but will not bore you or others. Be safe when you do go out. JDA

      • Iron Will – Wow, you certainly have some imagination. I was thinking (logically) that SB 166 Graveyard logic was a reference to cemeteries in TTOTC.

        Whether that it is the case or not, I hope you find a way to relax before your next search.

      • IW, great example… “…my belief that this scrapbook was directed to me…”

        Say it was! How can you not have concern that he isn’t simply echoing back your own words, or words chosen from the tens of thousands of emails that have been sent to him. Say you’re looking at a place that has a, I don’t know, a park where there’s a statue of George Washington, and also a gazebo. Forrest has never been there, but maybe some searcher from 2013 wrote to him and said he looked around the gazebo. You don’t know that someone’s searched there before, but you write to him and say you’re looking in the that area and that you looked around the statue of George Washington. Suddenly a SB appears about a gazebo. You remember a gazebo being there as well and get really excited, but…

        How do you KNOW any of this isn’t just an echo?

      • IW;

        Out of 12, you could only come up with two matches? I am not sure that I would bank on only two. JDA

        • Well those aren’t 12 “official” points of investigation. They are just your mind’s view of what matters in this SB. However, I never said I could only come up with two. Like the 18 x 10 measurements, I held back explaining the more important details… for obvious reasons.

          I believe the story he told here, really happened. The pile of rocks are there. The drive time from Santa Fe to San Lazaro is accurate. I just think he added in things within the story to put a message in it… whether it be to me, or you, or to everyone in the Chase.

          Good luck with yours. Will

      • I once read someplace:
        “Funny what the human mind can string together if it so chooses”


    • Where are you Lug? You do not seem so anxious to reply to me or Vox. You are the one that wanted a discussion. Hard to have a discussion with myself. Just sayin’ JDA

    • WOW JD this is great. I am literally abandoning my post address you properly. I am writing this nearly 7 hours after your comment so forgive me if you all have discussed it an moved on.

      First a general note. You are not discussing hints, just ideas you have abuot what is in Fenn’s head and I have already said the scrapbooks are good for that. What they aren’t is chuck full of hints that inform you about an actual clue. In my opinion. Let’s go with your format and take it in this canyon down brother.

      1 IT’s literally a graveyard for her symbolic divorce funeral.
      He has said previously not an a graveyard or don’t dig up graveyards.
      2 Angel is her name. It’s not a symbol hint or clue.
      3 Words are in quotation marks because one person is quoting another.
      4 Smeared is a description that sounds more forceful and uncertain than an alternative like wiped.
      5 right here would be a good spot for you to tell us what it means. Will you say something like gnarling muddle sounds like gurgling puddle? love to hear that.
      6 Again he is quoting someone and thus the quotes.
      7 This is a literal description to the apparent recollection of Forrest about the event.
      8 He is simply describing the pot. He’s an expert and he sees it as inelegant and wanted to say so in order to paint the picture for us.
      9 It could be a description of how the TC was placed but I doubt it. If it was he wouldn’t have printed this IMO. This again is just a description of the funeral of the divorce symbolically.
      10 see above
      11 The word cholla has come up like a zillion times before and sure maybe there is a dome shape involved in the chase. Even if that’s the case it’s not a hint.
      12 he’s describing how long the funeral was.

      So what I am asking about is how any hint in any scrapbook directly relates to and HINTS at a clue to the solve/search. your #5 would be a cool spot. Let us know how what Fenn wrote hints at a place or direction in your solve.

      Ok I still have a ton of emails to read. I have earmarked comments from VOX HumblePi and Davey Jones that I will be responding to


      • As I posted earlier, Lug; It is ALL opinion. I list some things that “In my opinion” (Quotes for emphasis – not what someone said) COULD be hints that help clarify a clue. To you, none of them mean anything. To me, some of them COULD mean something…all subjective. You seem to state “as fact” that some opinions – but be that as it may.

        Keep thinking your way, and I will keep thinking in mine, and maybe neither of us will find the treasure, but maybe one of us will.

        Good luck my friend. JDA

        • JD –

          I don’t think Fenn puts hints in these. I do think everything he writes and says informs us about the man.

          I think that collectively we stand a better chance of finding the treasure than we do on our own.

          I am not upset with you the way that I am with some. I believe that after your search you will come back and tell us all about it. I look forward to that.


        • Lug;

          I think that I let you off of the hoop pretty easy. You stated that there were no hints in SB 166. I laid of 12 things that, to me, could very well be hints.

          Since you were the one that stated that there were none, it should have been up to you to disprove my 12 assertions. All you did was say, – i disagree. So what? We knew that from the beginning.

          A discussion would have been for you to say WHY you disagree with my assertion, and then PROVE that I am wrong.

          I think I let you off pretty easy – I will not be so nice next time. JDA

          • Unless my assertions are challenged by factual data, My assertions stand. Just saying that you disagree “Proves” nothing. JDA

          • Jd –

            You realize you can just go out to San Lazaro and see the cairn right? The photo is evidence of it to me but maybe not to you.


          • Lug;

            Here are your first response:
            1 IT’s literally a graveyard for her symbolic divorce funeral.
            He has said previously not an a graveyard or don’t dig up graveyards.
            By saying, “1 IT’s literally a graveyard for her symbolic divorce funeral.
            He has said previously not an a graveyard or don’t dig up graveyards.

            THAT is your opinion, NOT a fact.
            True, he has said not to dig up graveyards. I am not suggesting that you have to. All I am asserting is that the TC might be “interred” or “buried”

            I state – as a fact that: “Graveyard = a place where the remains of dead people are buried or otherwise interred.

            I then state that this COULD mean
            – The place that the TC is buried or otherwise interred??? Is this possible?

            WHY isn’t it possible? That is the question. You have in NO way shown me how my thinking is in error – that it COULD be interred or buried.

            I could go through the other 11, but that would be futile – you have offered only your opinion, and not answered WHY any of my assertions couldn’t be possible. JDA

          • JD –

            I mentioned this already. What you and I are talking about are two different things. Your are not talking about hints ad there is nothing to refute.

            A hint would be something that informs you about a clue and then in turn the clue would tell you where to look or how to look something like that.

            Your points are just the regular thinking that folks put into something when they red a SB or whatever.

            If Fenn calls her angel and that’s not her name and you think its a hint than you can follow that hint.

            Lots of people already think the treasure might be buried and so I just don’t see how this SB is a hint to that.


          • Lug;

            You state -” A hint would be something that informs you about a clue and then in turn the clue would tell you where to look or how to look something like that.”

            To me this is 100% backwards. I do NOT use a hint to lead me to a clue.

            I solve a clue, and then I read what I interpret as a hint, If this hint helps to reinforce my clue, I use it. If it can NOT support or reinforce a clue that I have already solved, I cast it aside.

            You say, unequivocally that Forrest is not giving out hints – hints that can be used to reinforce an already found clue, or be used to solve a clue – I say that in my opinion you are shutting a thousand doors that could help you solve the poem. That is just my opinion though. JDA

          • JD –

            Why would you need a hint after you already solved the clue?

            As Jake mentioned previously that seems backwards.

            But this is a serious question and I am not being a jerk. If you already solved Clue 2 why would you need the hint? Also if someone hadn’t solved clue 2 would what your seeing be a hint to them?


          • Sorry Diggin;

            I thought that this blog was the place to discuss differing ideas – It isn’t?

            I like Lug – He sometimes has some great ideas. On the point of “hints” we have differing points of view. Is this bad?

            Where would you suggest that we go to discuss our differences, and provide others the opportunity to listen, or even chime in – as you did? JDA

          • All im saying is quit trying to make someone think or believe the way you do if he dont think theres hints in the scrapbooks who cares Its like trying to get a cat to bark like a dog aint gonna happen

          • Lug –

            “Why would you need a hint after you already solved the clue?”

            You raise a valid question Lug. Let me see if I can offer an explanation that will make sense.

            I think we can agree that the poem is difficult. Extracting clues that mean anything from said poem has been a challenge that has been ongoing for 6+ years with no tangible results. If the finding clues in the poem is that difficult then wouldn’t you want a way to confirm that what you think you’ve discovered as a clue really is a clue? If for example you could find 6-7 hints in the books or SB’s that are cleverly disguised and confirm that what you thought was a clue is correct, you might have a little confidence. I remember f saying that the finder of the chest would go to the spot with confidence. If you didn’t have some solid evidence for the clues, it would be challenging to find confidence. IMO.

            Here is a an example that might help you understand. I know Montana isn’t on your radar so please stick with me. What if you think you solved a clue in the poem? Then you remember that f told us about reading part of For Whom The Bell Tolls before discarding the book. Then you remember that instead of describing For Whom The Bell Tolls, he actually described A Farewell To Arms. Seems like a simple mistake doesn’t it? What if you are looking on GE and notice that Hebgen lake has two arms: Grayling Arm and Madison Arm. Do you see how things can be subtly hidden in the book if you can make some connections? Also if you were able to find some other connections to arms, wouldn’t it then begin to raise your level of confidence that a clue was solid and not just a case of “I think I have solved a clue.”

            You may still think that hints aren’t necessary and that is fine. I just thought you might want to see an example of why others think hints are valuable.

  41. JDA, I do not understand why you have not found the chest? I have read your comments on the question to f. and you reasoned that someone is close to the solve. Today you reasoned that the chest is in a hole on a mound. You are a expert at reasoning . I would like to add my thought to yours! Only my thought. I have a very good reason to believe that the chest is in a marmot hole on a mound, and the marmot has probably dug around the chest to get in, and out, and the chest has a layer of dirt on it. This will be found out in the spring.

    • Sam;

      Thanks for the vote of confidence. Thanks for the compliments. Your Marmot theory could be promising. I will keep it in mind. Mother nature is not kind to people who venture out in the winter. When she puts her mittens in a drawer, I will be out. Until then, all I can do is wait. JDA

    • Forrest has said that “It is wet” – doesn’t this negate your Marmot hole idea? Just asking. JDA

      • JDA, I do not think the chest is sealed very good, moisture, gets
        in, and stays. Moisture condenses
        on cold metal inside, maybe ?
        I think f, has said that the chest is
        where the weather can get to it.

  42. I would like to share a story my late father shared with me many years ago, it seems to be appropriate now.
    “The was a sparrow flying over the farmers house on morning while the farmer was planting his garden. The sparrow could see a large bag of seed up against the side of the little shed next to the garden. Circling over head waiting for a chance to get a free meal, the farmer finally went into his house for his noon meal. The sparrow had a feast on the tasty fresh seeds and soon had his fill. Fearing the return of the farmer, the sparrow flapped his wings but could take flight after eating so much. He tried to running and flapping with all his might but still was grounded. Noticing the farmers rake next to the seed, he climber up to the top of the handle. Flapping as fast as he could, the little sparrow jumped, but he only fell to his death. The moral of the story my dad said was “Don’t fly off the handle when you are full of S—-!”
    This is not meant for anybody so don’t think I’m pointing at anyone. Hopefully it put a smile on your face for a few minutes.
    I think that when the chest is found we all see clues in all of his writings. IMO
    Good luck to all, stay safe and by all means have fun!

  43. I seriously think a “pattern” is being presented in the SB. A “series” of thoughts being repeated in a subtle manner. If you use the architecture of logic and cover it with imagination there is a tendency to miss the logic as you are distracted with imagination.

    “That building is so beautiful I failed to notice that it was built in the shape of two “L’s”. The story could be built on a series of repeated thoughts, but we only see the sadness or humor built upon those thoughts. Just wanted to throw that in there. By the way, I don’t think the SB is directed at me. It is directed to my grandmother’s departed spirit, who enjoys impersonating Forrest when she sees people recording spirit voices at 3:00 A.M. in the morning. She does a very convincing garbled voice of Forrest. She needs to knock it off.

    • now that you mention it – the first thought that came to my mind when I heard the garbled voice was; that voice sounds suspiciously like the spirit of Sparrows dearly departed grandmother, impersonating Forrest for a cheap giggle at all our expense.

      i know right – just too weird

    • The example I gave was kind of dumb. This would have been better. There is a famous painting by Picasso—I believe it is a person playing the guitar. The whole painting is based on the letter “Z”. So “Z” would be the architecture—-and the guitarist the painters imagination on top of that “Z”. This is what I was trying to describe.

  44. Although I haven’t spent a huge amount of time with it yet, I’m beginning to see SB166 as related to the entire poem. I know there are some who will see this as just a piece of entertaining writing, but to me it goes much deeper than that. There are confirmations of different parts of the journey in every paragraph, IMO. And why not? This is SB 166 after all!

    • Well Fenn seems to be thinking about his whole journey lately. And the scrapbook may feel like it confirms things but if your not onto the correct solve than all those thoughts you had are wrong. Right?

      What we need is a new clue from Fenn. Maybe a big one like removing Montana.

      I know he had said he will not give another clue but if he’s felling melancholy maybe he will.

      I know he reads comments but I don’t think he reads mine.


      • Lug, he’s already given you all the clues you need! Maybe you’d prefer it if he told you where the chest is? It’s a puzzle and it’s a huge challenge – and enormous fun! Enjoy it!!

  45. Hey now, aren’t we supposed to speculate on the ‘arrow’ location not being the north end of room block two, what with the shadows indicating either east or west…..? lol, I get a lot out of the comments and then rereading the SB and then the comments again… feel sorry for any newbies behind on reading all the other stuff….just saw where today some new poster was all confused about the poem and the little girl from india….IMO.

    • I’m still waiting for someone to notice the obvious reason the photo does not match the story. 🙂

      • I can think of a few reasons. No cholla cactus’. And, parking distance from that spot is way too far to hear her “releasing” Fred and Ferd. A few others to?

        Jeremy, are you in one of the search states?

        • It’s easier than that, Twingem. Perspective. Those rocks are at some distance away, and likely much heavier than they appear in the photo.

          “I don’t remember her name…”

          Don’t mean to be sexist, but unless her name was Diana Prince, I don’t think she stacked those rocks.

          • Yes, great thinking. Thank you for that share. Perspective and context are everything, IMO.

            I believe all of Forrest’s books are full of hint to the alert. I have bought two copies (and saving up for copies 3), and plan to eventually purchase all of his books. With this type of education, the books are small price compared to graduate school, yes? Better education too.

            Yes, I’m one of “those” searchers. I believe nothing is impossible and would be bummed to need to kick myself in th a** for not exploring every possibility.


  46. Angel’s Bakery and Cafe is right off the Plaza in Santa Fe. Close to Mavericks, close to Water Street. Maybe she changed professions after her divorce was final.

  47. Interestingly, Zaphod has mentioned For Whom The Bell Tolls as part of his search/research. It occurs to me that he was probably right to go down that avenue – but I think he may have missed the true significance. This SB reverberates with a very loud message!


  48. Gosh I’m counting the days till I get my new eyes, but even without, I can see that the foreground and background are two different pictures. Clearly. Just sayin. 🙂

    Forrest, you have such a way with words. I could only hope to half even a snip of the talent you do. Your stories and all you share with us is/are such a treat. Thanks!

  49. The past is the past at last.
    Let it pass, the sombre brigade
    Hauling their dead up the hill.
    Leave them for the stars
    To decide.

  50. Angel had written her ex’s name in big black
    letters, but I am sure it was misspelled. “Ferd,” it said. I wondered what
    that was all about.

    F erd
    g fse
    h gtf

    I hug

    Kind if sad.

    • Ferd is an odd word/misspelling of a name. The only Ferd I am familiar with is Alferd Packer – the “Colorado Cannibal”. He had close associations with Saguache and the Montrose area; his name lives on at the Alferd Packer Grill at CU where friends and family worked during their college daze. He is buried in my hometown cemetery and his grave was regularly vandalized before they made a concrete vault for his remains (if I remember correctly). He was reputed to be an unsavory character –

      • .
        What a story – “unsavory” … fitting.

        I was also thinking “fer D” or “furred”, and the name Ferd reminds me of Magellan, the explorer.

  51. It was beside a pre-historic path that led down to the clay mine.
    This scrapbook gives you a glimpse of how and where the treasure is buried. ImO the treasure is covered over similar to this, also noticed she used some nails that got damaged in the kiln, just like the old nails / Staples in the old pottery bowl a few SBs back..

Comments are closed.