Where Warm Waters Halt…Part Five

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This page is now closed to new comments. To continue the discussion please go to the newest WWWH page.

This is for a discussion about Where Warm Waters Halt. We’ve all got ideas that didn’t work out or we are willing to share…I think we can give folks just starting out some ideas for the kinds of places that might just be the place Where Warm Waters Halt…or not!

Let the discussion begin…

dal…

548 thoughts on “Where Warm Waters Halt…Part Five

      • Dal,

        Pardon my lack of patience, and maybe I’m giving this one away, but has there been a discussion on WWWH as “32 degrees”, as in the Texas/New Mexico border?

        Best Wishes to everyone in the Chase!

        ~ Wisconsin Mike

        • Yes. A searcher named Bonnie discussed it in a letter she wrote to Forrest that resulted in SB 162.

        • Wisconsin Mike-
          I can’t remember one…I think that might be an original idea…but is any part of that border in the Rocky Mountains?

          • Dal,

            Although my WWWH may not be in the RM, did Forrest ever say all the clues are in the RM’s? Also, I believe this relates to Forrest’s comment about “Look at the big picture”.

            ~ Wisconsin Mike

      • Just a quick question…if somebody does find the treasure in a national park…are they even allowed to remove it….or will it be confiscated at some point by park authorities….to my understanding…anything on park land belongs to the American people and cannot be removed…even if fenn did give the finder title to the gold…makes me wonder if this was part of his plan…he did say he’d like to see it in the smithsonian someday…giving testimony to his legacy…maybe the finder doesnt get to keep the treasure after all…just a thought

    • Subscribe

      …not receiving anything since 03/16/17….so i thought I would try again.

      thanks Dal!

    • Jake –

      Are you still planning a move to the treasure state this year?

      Also, once you find a WWWH, are you a searcher who thinks BOTG are needed for subsequent clues or do you have clues nailed down before leaving home? Maybe it’s a combo. I tend to think that all clues can be nailed down from home before going to the spot. I know that’s an unusual approach but if f says to nail down the first clue, why wouldn’t you be able to nail down others before searching?

      • No Hma,
        I may visit The Treasure State if I’m able in summer one more time.
        I have found a WWWH over a year ago.
        You should know that BOTG is necessary at some point.

        You say: “I tend to think that all clues can be nailed down from home before going to the spot.”
        I say: Good luck with that type of thinking.

        Are there people still driving around looking for the blaze?
        No blinking red lights here.

        • Jake –

          “I may visit The Treasure State if I’m able in summer one more time.”

          Good for you. It’s wonderful country and you can’t put a price on the views.

          “I have found a WWWH over a year ago.
          You should know that BOTG is necessary at some point.”

          I’m glad you found a WWWH, but is it correct? We are in agreement that BOTG are needed. I don’t think anyone could physically get the chest without going to it.

          “You say: “I tend to think that all clues can be nailed down from home before going to the spot.”
          I say: Good luck with that type of thinking.”

          I still think that all clues can be nailed down before you leave home. It would be next to impossible if you had to figure out clues on site, IMO. Care to make a wager? Your poor hat has already been offered up a number of times. What about something else? Maybe the amount that I paid you to search for me? Maybe something else? Name something and I might be game. Depends upon what it is. Let’s keep this clean.

          “Are there people still driving around looking for the blaze?”

          There might be. You never know. 🙂

          “No blinking red lights here.”

          You have to admit that my blinking red light ending was creative. Maybe not correct but none the less it was different. I still laugh at myself when I think about that solution. I learned some valuable lessons from that solution.

          • Hma: “Let’s keep this clean. ”

            There are some things in life that go beyond the boundaries of other peoples wishes.

            We at least agree on the state & that is 25% of the battle which in turn is 100%.

            We also agree on the same general area SW Montana, that speaks volumes to your thought process & shows me you know what your talking about when it comes to geography & applying the hints & clues to the area.

            We may differ on other POV’s but I like to think of you have most of the battles won but maybe not the war.

          • I will add that searching in this area of SW Montana, you are in the 95 percentile which is very impressive & your solve when I went searching for you was not way out of the box as some over thinkers here.

            I would not look for you if it was.

            The only thing that bothered me was the close proximate to the road & construction & being so close to West Yel.

            My hat is off to you Hear me all.

        • Jake, Did the LGI find the first two clues with ‘certainty’? Surely the first two must be nailed down before bog.

      • Zap,
        I’ll tell you why.
        When I first heard about the chase the 1st thing I did was to try to find out where all the hot springs are in the 4 states & used this as many.
        https://maps.ngdc.noaa.gov/viewers/hot_springs/

        I started at the Canadian boarder & was looking for any hot springs that were within a half mile or so to each other.

        I had no books at this point & after scouring the 4 states I had the Firehole River, Norris & I think Mammoth to decide on.

        If you study the geography of these springs in all 4 states I think you will find the clusters mainly in Wyoming as I.

        To have 3 words in a row in the poem with “W” leading the way after begin it, tells the tale.

        Ordered TFTW & came to a conclusion that the Fountain Flats area was the place to begin.

        Very special spot in a very special area in that state for him.

        • The map is very interesting, thanks. One thing that leaps out at me is how the hot springs follow the Snake River plain in Idaho, into YNP, and stop…..the Snake lies in the valley the YNP hotspot melted, literally, through the Rockies.

          The Absaroka are an ancient cluster of volcanos–called a volcanic supergroup. These volcanos deposited the volcanic tuff that buried forests many times circa 60MA and created the famous standing petrified forests. There are no warm springs in the Absaroka volcanic supergroup, and the supervolcano, now abuts them, with its plethora of hot springs. Where warm waters are no longer.

          Great. Now I have to reconsider WY. Later.

  1. IMO Where Warm Water Halts is described in chapter five of
    ‘Too Far To Walk’ titled ‘River Bathing Is Best’.
    I think that FF is referring to where Fairy Creek or Sentinel Creek enters the Firehole river. These creeks are a short distance from each other. The Ojo Caliente Spring is also beside the Firehole River in this area.

    • I forget the exact number, but hundereds of thermal springs enter the firehole river above the area of Ojo Caliente. That’s the spring ff bathe near, down stream, after riding his bike 20 miles to get there. That could be the waters with the s Connection.

  2. It’s not “where warm water halts!!!!!!!! It is “where warm waters halt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

    What the heck?

    • exactly halt: stop, end, non-continuing…
      if warm Waters halt then, something must continue.

      read the corresponding chapter and you’ll get the big clue..

    • Toughshed—-

      To stay in line with your other comments I think you meant to say:

      What the heck????????????????????

  3. That was my favorite choice too as Fenn left very precise instructions how to find his favorite/secret swimming spot. However, after a comment that Fenn made that he states he wished he hadn’t made, makes me eliminate this area entirely…back to searching for another area that is close to his heart!
    *I was thrilled to find in my searching, a creek. name New Pierce Creek-My Gt Gt Gt grandfather was Cheif Joseph! Finding out more and more about my family background! Wish I could remember the stories my Gt grandmother Iris Romona told! They were awesome about Buffalo Bill Cody and specific details that now fifty years later slip my mind. Wished I had written them down in a journal!

  4. Responding to post in prior WWWH incarnation: balk has often been offered up as a rhyming alternative to halt, but that choice wouldn’t work with my solution. And changing “walk” would be a non-starter for me, so I can see why Forrest was “limited in his ability.”

    • Hey Zap,
      I have been reading through a lot of archived material in Nine Clues and WWWH – While my questions are related to this thread (but in archives), I would prefer to contact you in private as the content is related to the Clue1/Clue2 (imo) connection and the way these clues work, which I believe you recently discussed in an outlying thread. Not sure if you are subbed and happen to see this, but if you have a spare moment to discuss something, my email is brent.meschuk@gmail.com – Thanks in advance!

  5. So I think I have cracked the code. Where Warm Waters Halt is not specifically a place but a time of year. It’s Winter when the water freezes and halts in place. I’ve built a plan on how to get to the treasure once the geocoordinates are figured out. That’s the piece that I’ve yet to figure out. I’m getting the book back next weekend from my son. He is in college and took it back to school so he could get his creative friends minds working on solving the where.

    • KC huh?
      does that tag mean you’re on the Kansas or Missouri side?
      ” I’ve built a plan on how…….” ok, let me stop you right there. Bear in mind you’re probably looking at a dozen road trips, so my advice is camp-out.
      Pick up a $10 solar shower bag, rough it a bit the way I think Fenn intended. Try not to open any pricey outdoor items if there’s a chance you can return them on the trip home. Enjoy!

  6. It seems that most everyone is fixated on “hot springs”, “warm springs”, etc.

    Thousands (perhaps tens of thousands) of searcher have been following [unsuccessfully] this literal interpretation…

    Perhaps, “WWWH” is an allusion to something other than the apparent…

    For example, when Forrest did a low altitude fly-by over a SE Asian funeral, he literally wept “salty tears” ….

    At some point in time, his warm waters halted…

    Food for thought…

    • I agree, Fennatical, that there is an inclination of many to think that way. It is logical in many ways to think of ‘ hot springs , warm lakes ect. Many also look at wwwh from many other angles also. So many intelligent ideas I read here and learn lots from here in that way. So, when I came up with my area that is a ‘special place’ ff described it as, I thought to apply all considered meanings. I thought to myself, ” how many potential meanings in my area could apply?. Could I see more than one of the potential meanings and still flow within my solve? Nothing weak in applicables but Strong applicables in interpretation . I have 3 potentially applicable meanings of wwwh at the same point. I am confident in my 3 interpretations in potential meanings at same spot. If I had just only one I wouldn’t be confident enough.

      • Maybe I am being overly simplistic… but usually the Warm Waters Halt where the running water stops… sooo… maybe when you leave “town” or a building…

        • I brought this angle up a couple of years ago and many, many people think I am “crazy”.

          I.m not by any stretch of the means…..they are.

          :o)

          You keep thinking that this clue as “edge of civilization”….it will give you a much better definition within your solve.

          Trust me…..many will rebuke your thinking…..

          • The question is….where did he begin from. There can be numerous upon numerous options from this angle.

            That is why I think people don’t want to accept it….there are just too many possibilities.

            But…..if you think like Fenn…..there is only one.

            Good luck.

          • The question is….where did he begin from. There can be numerous upon numerous options from this angle.

            That is why I think people don’t want to accept it….there are just too many possibilities.

            But…..if you think like Fenn…..there is only one.

            Good luck.

          • Well not crazy… but had an epiphany after listening to FF read the poem. I think my overly simplistic assumption was wrong, but being overly simplistic has made something to me very clear…as to why many people have identified the first clue and walked right by… because they didn’t see the significance of the first clue!!! I’d explain more, but I am afraid the Russians may have hacked my email…

          • Hmm.
            Came across something on a tangent last night that I can’t shake. Might be the largest case of confirmation bias ever… or something big. All my opinion of course, but WWWH, canyon down (the importance), home of Brown, meek, no paddle, water high… and the blaze. The beautiful thing with my current solve, there are multiple parallels to the story. Maybe im way out in left field, but I haven’t seen the names of the location I am thinking in any forum online… and it is a place where people easily could be 200-500 feet from and not know it… IMO, (if my solve is correct) the people who mentioned where they had been to Forrest weren’t looking where they mentioned, but it was someone who would have been visiting places in the area.

          • Jim,
            It’s tough to shake the chase.
            Our minds are shaking in all directions trying to figure this out & it appears to me there are parallels to the poem.

            You have only listed 7 of the 9 IMO.
            Where or what are the other 2?

            I think you are correct in your logic here.

          • Oh how many nights I have given up to verify the perfect solve. It wasn’t until I had boots on the ground and late in the afternoon on more than one occasion that I knew for a solid 15 minutes I was within steps of the treasure. Each clue is perfectly covered st Christ in the desert monastery Abiqu Home of brown , too far to walk their sign and warning 13 miles is too far to walk so call us and we will pick you u.

            The Philmont Boys Scout ranch is on the Chase Ranch. The Thrill of the Chase!!!

            The best is Put in at the airport in Browning Montana Take the Road to the sun towards the mountain peak

            I even found a Brown properties next to the Meek Ranch sign on the way along the creek up the road too far to walk to the forest fire tower with nine windows at the top of the mountain where he scattered the ashes of a friend.

            The best was realized after I got back to Detroit and discovered the real solve was in the fire smoke hole that was built into a pueblo in a national park just north of Santa Fe on the road as I left the state. Oh so many places so little time.

          • Hi Jim –

            I want to mention a couple of things here.

            If you tell us where your area is, someone will know who’s been there. If no one has been there we will tell you what a great idea you have. If you are worried about someone going to your spot think about it. These guys are so convinced of their own ideas that Forrest’s words fall deaf on their ears. You could show them a picture of the chest and they wouldn’t budge. That’s 90% of ’em. And the others would still have to actually follow the clues and find the treasure.

            The other thing I want to say is use google. Search for your location and add words ralated to the chase. Like Lander Fenn or Lander Goofy or Lander mysterious or Lander treasure. I assume you are not going to Lander and that’s just an example.

            Cheers
            Lugnutz

          • I had previously eliminated WY and MN due to a statement about smell of Pinyon nuts. So I looked up where pinyon pines grow and at what elevation. Then ran across Fenns statement taking back that statement…back to the drawing board!

          • Probably ready to be on a different thread chain since I am off on a tangent, but this all started from my WWWH and looking at the big picture… not far but too far…

            My WWWH tells me that meek is more important than Brown, that where you begin it is key, and that “worth the cold” is not a clue 🙂

            Once I find a better place for this discussion, I’ll post where it went to.

          • Sheryl, (from March 6 post), I can assure you there are no Pinon Trees in Minnesota. I’m guessing you meant New Mexico. 🙂

          • Remember – all pine trees have some sort of “nuts” associated to them. So, if one were to only think “Pinyon” as a specific type of tree, that could be put an unnecessary limitation on your solve.

            We know FF likes to play with words and even have said himself he uses words that don’t necessarily have the same meaning as you would normally find it to be. He likes to play with the words to make them sound like they belong, but really don’t.

            I think it is part of the game – a diversion tactic of some sort – to throw the seeker off the trail.

            It seems to be working if some think of his mention of it, puts the hunt into NM.

            IMO – he is adding it to his statement and it reflects “pine trees” – generically – because one would smell “pinon”. Most pine trees all smell the same.

            Granted “pinyon” is specific to the NM region, but his inflection seems to say that it was an add-in to keep everyone occupied away from Indulgence.

            Pine trees are throughout the Rockies, but to give a specific clue like that, I doubt that it means the pinion tree” specifically.

            Good luck.

          • I spent four days locating areas on where pinyon grow. Not in Montana, only a very small smidgeon in Wyoming, which basically eliminated these two states. Then I found the elevation range that the variety of pinyons that grow in these two states and laid that over my map of CO and NM…then found F had retracted that statement…he meant the smell of pines…so now, I am back to the 4 state search! I thought narrowing my target down first was a great idea, and then concentrate on WWWH! What did I learn? I know a lot more about pinyons now!

          • As long as you do have 2 more to compliment the total 9, I think you are on the track.

            Hope your not heading out soon…..

          • As soon as I can hop in my plane and get there… That being said, I don’t think it is wise (you might not find the blaze, and it wont be safe). to go out in winter.

            I will say my solution is not in NM or Wy… so some of you may now be at ease haha

  7. To all our uncertain knowledge, where warm waters halt…canyon down…
    could look something like this:
    www.\\hoB/in…..

    Maybe ‘it’ is a…

    • Ron Ricker,
      When you’re talking about a shadow, are you referring to the poem or part[s] of the poem?
      You said; I imagine if it is going in reverse, things begin where they halt.
      Again, I’m wondering if you’re a shadow or waters?

      Should things begin where they halt in either case, it seems you’re saying … the source. The source of the shadow or the source of the water[s].
      Maybe you clue elaborate…?

      • The shadow comment was dejoka completing my statement. To clarify my other complete statements, i believe that the poems clues are not arranged consecutively and that reverse engineering the poem in its entirety is not necessarily helpful. The poems ability of self confirmation has led me to believe that it (poem) is bidirectional and somewhat dynamic. Layering allows multiple things to happen simultaneously. Things like the blazes and the waters. Yes blazes. Though, in a word, a blaze is a single object there exists more than one. Also, there is a blaze within a blaze. It sounds more complex than it is and if none of this sounds viable in relation to your solve, CANASTA.
        Well call this speculation for the obvious reasons, and apostrophe punctuation intentionally neglected.

        • Ron;
          We are free to interpret the poem however we see fit. I remind you though that Forrest has posted comments that are in direct contradiction to your thought processes. For example:
          Forrest once said, “There are nine clues in the poem, and the clues are in consecutive order. If you want to find the treasure chest – you have my book there – I’ll tell you how to do it. Read the book just normally … the poem and the rest of the book, and then go back and read the poem 6, 8, 10 times – study every line, every word. Then after you do that, read the book again, slowly, with the idea of looking for clues or hints, that are in the book that will help you follow the clues. You can find the chest with just the clues, but there are hints in the book that will help you with the clues.” f“

          Forrest has also said:
          Is the Blaze one single object? ~ Scout Around
          In a word – Yes
          I have received a few hundred emails from searchers who are sure they know what the blaze is. Ideas range from a mark on a tree, a rock, a sign, a fire, the side of a bluff, a waterfall, a spot on the head of a horse, a rainbow, and even a live owl that flew away when it was approached.” f

          How do you explain your thought processes being in direct contradiction to Forrest’s statements? Just Askin’ JDA

          • JDA –

            You stated this above. “For example:
            Forrest once said, “There are nine clues in the poem, and the clues are in consecutive order.”

            Yes, the clues should be followed in consecutive order but that doesn’t mean that the clues in the poem are consecutive. Here’s a quote from f in reply to a question on MW back in 2014. “That’s right joseph, you should start with the first clue and follow the others consecutively to the treasure. Hints in the book are not that organized.”f When I look at the poem, I don’t see the clues in consecutive order.

            I also remember f stating in the Moby video that the clues are contiguous. He had to put one foot down then step on it to get to the next clue.

            While it may seem like we are splitting hairs with our talk about consecutive and contiguous, it can be the difference in finding the treasure chest or coming up empty handed. If you think the clues are in consecutive order in the poem, I venture to say that you will never find the treasure chest.

            Think about this JDA. Forrest is a unique man. If he were to write a poem containing 9 clues, would he go straight down the center line with the clues or would he bounce off the curbs a little and be unique? He’s unique because he does things differently.

            If all of your clues are in an orderly fashion, it might be time to make adjustments before the warm weather arrives. Hope this helps.

          • HMA;

            You are right I said,”Forrest once said, “There are nine clues in the poem, and the clues are in consecutive order.”

            That is what Forrest said, and that is what I believe, and have followed. If you choose to read it otherwise, that is your choice. Good luck to you. JDA

        • This blog’s discussion format can be hard to follow.

          I was trying to complete this post’s title “Where Warm Waters Halt…”
          with:

          …is just a mere shadow of a clue. But what then could be casting the shadow? hmmmm?

          • SL-A shadow could be a weak or inferior remnant or version of something.

            Perhaps what once was “big or great” is now just a small piece of what it once was…

          • I think the field of play can also be minimized by using the map he produced with the “shadow” of him standing with a walking stick.

            IMO – one could extrapolate all kinds of regions – that are not in the “shadow” – and consider Indulgence is not in those areas.
            – if one to use that method

            But we have now seen multiple meanings of what a shadow could be.

            So we now know a shadow can produce shade or a shaded area if being projected….we can now also speculate on something the is shaded could reflect something that includes a specific color. A great example is FF’s map of the RMs. Lots of shaded areas and all in different colors.

            I think we can also logically state that there would be fewer legal issues for the finder if the trove is hidden on “non-protected land” (Indian reservation, YNP, certain natal forests, etc..).

            These steps narrows your search region greatly.

            How small of a region or regions can exist?

            A lot fewer than what you had started with.

            Good luck.

  8. I believe I have solved the poem…which makes it difficult for me to throw out any clues to anyone because I look forward to telling everyone… after I go get the treasure. Speculation is fun, but confirmation is better.

    I sincerely believe that all the clues necessary are in the poem, just as Forrest has spoken.

    I do believe there are at least two layers of confirmation built into this poem. One of those to me on wwwh is; where warm waters meet cold springs. I will tell you that I do not believe it’s in Montana and it’s at least 320 miles west of Toledo. I know, thanks for nothing right?

    The simple fact that Mr. Fenn put a seasonal winter waiting factor into this adventure, makes it a real test of patience also. It allows sufficient time to reflect on how to go about the hunt and what to do when you find the box.
    It’s as though the whole thing is designed to make you a more thoughtful person…genius!

    More to come

    • Tom H ~ “I will tell you that I do not believe it’s in Montana and it’s at least 320 miles west of Toledo.”
      OK…
      How do we get around all the first two clues? Searcher have told fenn where they were and walked past the remaining clues and the chest. I mean, If a clue was 320 mile from “Toledo” we’re not in the RM’s. Of course I’m sure there are other Toledos then the commonly known OH.

      Don’t get me wrong. I have thought of theories that covered a large area in regards to the clues, even, over a large time period. But doesn’t it seem now that the clues are relatively close… maybe even of the same spot?

      You mentioned “layers” What are your thought or examples of layers?

      • Hey Seeker,

        I was being a smarty pants with the bit about Toledo, please forgive me. If Forrest meant that one as a hint, I sure didn’t get anywhere with it, nor did it bring any confirmation to my solve.

        About layers, my thought is in the way I’ve learned to study prophecies. Often times if not always, a prophecy may have relevancy in the natural world and yet at the same time or even a future time become understood in a spiritual way which brings understanding back into the natural realm…then of course it becomes knowledge.

        Reminds me of a New Testament passage:

        “That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.”
        -Colossians 2:2-3

        Blessings

      • Seeker,

        Some may think that Forrest’s comment about 320 miles WEST of Toledo is facetious, but there is something I’d like to share with folks and assumes f did not clarify he was actually referring to Toledo, OH. If someone can confirm he did, then please provide a cite and ignore the following.

        Toledo, Oregon is located near 44° north latitude. Yeah I know, the RMs are east of Oregon. BUT, I can for sure get to the RMs by flying due west and going around the world, not that I’d ever do that.

        And guess what is located at 44° north latitude? Yep, America’s very first National Park, 44° 25′ 21.2628” N to be precise and you all know which one that is.

      • Taking a step back, I think Fenn would have had to put the treasure chest in Yellowstone, as it is a National Park and would remain pristine for as long as the country exists. In the four-state area, there are several other National Parks, and those could be possibilities as well. Why put it in a spot where somebody might come by with a bullbozer and ruin everything?!

        • Vic,
          I have been to the park a few times & the crowds were overwhelming even in October.

          I did not see any Forrest Service roads there either.
          Most of the parking spots were paved & some were gravel & was difficult to go hiking on a trail without anyone else around.

          “Generally speaking, there are places where one should stay on established trails; Yellowstone is one.
          When I am in the mountains or in the desert, the last place I want to be is on a trail. Ain’t no adventure in that for me. There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty to where I hid the treasure.f

          YNP could blow at any time.

          • Hahahahaha ~ YNP could blow at any time.

            You do realize the chase would be over, right? It won’t be a ‘local’ event.
            If and when it does go pop, the last thing we’ll need to worry about is if the chest survived. It’s not called a super volcano for nottin.

          • Well I’m glad you got it Seeker.

            I’m looking at the fact that the park is crowded when the gates are open & who’s to say there are not cameras pointing at your license plate on the way in & out.

            I’s gated from at least four points & you have to pay to search for the treasure.
            Doesn’t make sense to me why F would agree upon folks paying to get int a certain area.

            Yes you will pay your dues to get to your spot from afar & close but YNP seems to be a huge rabbit hole where the gov makes the $$ & all the folks from across the globe experience a great vacation.

            I will try to hack into their database of all the vehicles license plates back in 2009 & 2010 to see if F drove through a gate but wait, he could have hiked in. LOL

            It’s a great place for the 1st few clues but I think the popularity of the area has left a bitter taste in his mouth.

          • Jake,

            My point was that there is only a couple of hints in the book as ff said.

            You said to me

            “I’m not a big fan of searching in Colorado seeing there are hints sprinkled in his book(s) & Colorado is only mentioned on the way to get to West Yellowstone & at least one of his friends lived there.”

            Ok, that is what I meant by a ‘couple of subtle hints’ and you said them to me pertaining to CO-thank you! 🙂 I don’t need to read the book.

            I said -Secrets are least talked about and mentioned- only a couple hints in the book. Ok , so to me those were the 2 hints that you mentioned to me

            Now , with what I read that ff said or wrote something like:

            2 can keep a secret if one of them is dead- if I remember correctly?

            My question is to you or anyone here is;

            Do you know if the friend he had in Colorado you mentioned, still alive?

          • Alsetenash & Tesla or Nash.

            “If you read the book, there are a couple of good hints & there are a couple of aberrations that live out on the edge.”

            I will agree on your couple of hints but this time he said `good`.
            Yes this is from the Moby Video that has gone.

            Seeker got the goods. I’m just going by memory & JCM is king.
            It’s best to be able to distinguish between “good hints” & just hints “sprinkled”.

            It seems very confusing but we have to light the fuse somewhere.

          • I traveled to Yellowstone in July 2015… Found some great spots to search based on my initial thoughts on this where there were Forest service roads, trails, vistas, etc… Besides driving in, most of the people I saw were within a mile of the grand loop road (with the exception of the campgrounds)…

          • I probably missed some Forest Service roads there in YNP but where?
            I didn’t see any on Grand loop.

            You may be talking about when but I am in the now.

          • I have taken that route Jim over a year ago & found some interesting names of creeks & rivers that were changed.

            Historical topo maps may be helpful in the geography sense.
            I am sure F helped map different areas around West Yellowstone.

          • Jake,

            I agree it’s not in YNP. YNP is far too regulated for a guy like Fenn, not to mention the dangers of potential WWWH solves. Getting too close could be deadly as any ranger will tell you.

            However, I’m curious to your reasoning behind forest roads. I’ve seen a few threads where you’ve mentioned these roads and while they’re definitely less traveled, they also aren’t maintained as well either.

            In each of my solves, I imagine not a place where a 79 or 80 year old man couldn’t go, but rather a 90 year old Fenn who may want to return his bones to his secret spot. And what if that time comes in winter? Even a 58 year old Fenn with cancer would not have been able to use a forest road to secret his bones. Is forest roads an interpretation of a clue? Or is it a hunch based on maps and charts?

          • Agreed peloquin,
            Not in YNP.

            My reasoning behind the Forest Service rd theory is that Forrest worked for the FS clearing trails which may be Forest Service roads now & seeing he is a man of nature, I think the rd he parked on is not paved & is a FS gravel/dirt rd.

    • Hi Tom H –

      I agree that the treasure is not in Montana. The Montana faction is the loudest and most sure. That reminds me if the old Utah faction. With the proximity to W Yellowstone and the Brown canyon with hot springs they were all so absolutely certain of Utah they wouldn’t consider any other state.

      I would consider how many places warm waters enter cold springs. Forrest says there are lots of places where warm waters halt.

      Lugnutz

    • I too have Figured it out. And I am waiting out the weather.
      Just to see if we are on the same line. Does the number 943 mean anything to you ?
      Warm w w h is the flag in the ground, the start.

      • Why of course. 943 A.D. is the year Lasagna was invented. And pasta has a great deal to do with the poem. Luigi Pescalari’s (the inventor of Lasagna) mother said “Luigi my son-ah, thatsa the besta pasta I have-ah eaten in my life-ah!!!”

        Yes, 943 was the year.

        • There is a very significant clue in the preface.
          Did any one notice the Numbers?

          I guess not.

          Just waiting for the weather to turn.

          • 1930, 5, 8, 80, 12, 9, 26
            Unless you’re taken into consideration the word ‘one’
            mentioned three times.

            So what ya got Davio22 ?

          • Just the preface…..He is talking about hamburgers. 9th book, 26 years.
            that is a hint, so you will look in a direction.

            943 is not a year. it’s an ? what Tom…?
            There are some very significant numbers that you need to find.
            That will apply to the starting point.
            This was in reply to ; Tom H
            I’ll be at the site March 1st.

          • Wow y’all are talking Greek to me…something in these numbers? Between rearranging word/letters and now numbers-I’m lost. Ok. Guess I should stop my search now.

          • Davio22,
            fenn talks about being 80, a second change for those over 12, and other related numbers…
            How did you manage to pick or choice the correct ones?
            for what ever you’re seeing.

          • Read the preface over and over. Then research Wimpy burgar.
            Nothing is straight forward. This an artist communicating what he has seen.
            Making you imagine alot of what the forest world is like at that time.
            Who is Wimpy ? a minor character in a cartoon.
            What Cartoon ?
            Then what is an old Biddies?
            All that will get you to a number. Now he hints at that number, 926.

          • you must be a NM searcher if you are heading there March 1st davio22.
            Be cautious in winter, in the mtns. north of Santa Fe…and good luck to you.

          • Thanks Ken,
            I am a retired Yosemite climber, just turned 60. I committed to go for the search full time this last year. SO I have to know if I am correct. On storm watch now, looks like Friday is the take off day from Ca. Heading into 7k feet into the rockies. No not New Mexico.
            Once you have figured out a clue, it becomes obvious in hindsight.
            This is thinking WAY out of the box.

          • WAY out of the box??? davio,
            Just seems sketchy.

            We can only help you so much & have a nice slip trip.
            When you get to the top of the falls, don’t look slowly down.

          • Thinking WAY out of the box could = WaY = WY out of the box. Almost ALL areas of WY are snowy. Please be careful. JDA

          • Thank you JDA.

            Here is something to think about, imagine or visualize.
            When you are standing on top of a Waterfall, what is not said?
            There is something he is not saying.
            It is the view.
            Thinking out of the box is the artist mind, and free in Nature.

          • Hey Davio22,

            I can relate to your excitement as I went through that the last time I went to the site of my first solve. Whether or not we have the same solve is questionable. But, I will say this, if by chance it is, please bring someone with you and bearing arms could be wise also. There is a large apex predator who claims that territory. I’m not joking. Also, this is not a good time to go as the dangers of walking in heavy snow in unfamiliar territory are as many as the sure solves of forrest fenns poem…not to mention exhausting…I’m near your age and in late fall it was already too late for what I was able to deal with.
            The numbers you mentioned and wimpy burgers added nothing to me…but thank you for reaching out. Please be careful, it ain’t worth dying over. So, 7k huh? Hmmm.

          • Well Tom H.,
            I have been weather shut down, for a week or two…..Rats!
            It is a bit knarly out there. All kinds of ways.
            Feb 5, 2017 – The Park County Sheriff’s Office is seeking information on a Powell man who has been missing since Tuesday, Jan, 31. Gibson “Gib” Lee Mathers, 61, of Powell was last heard from on Tuesday …
            His pickup truck was subsequently discovered on Friday, Feb. 3 by a Wyoming Highway Patrol trooper.
            It was abandoned in a “pull out” on Highway 14-16-20 west approximately a half mile west of the Wapiti Campground, 30 miles west of Cody.
            I don’t think he was a searcher. This happens before storms in the high country.
            Missing-411 is the first comprehensive research about people who have disappeared in the wilds of North America. Nobody has ever studied the archives for similarities, traits and geographical clusters of missing people, until now.
            Yea I will have my head up, on a pivot.
            Have you noticed all the 7s in the story?. Interesting .

      • Hey Davio22, How’s it going? The sevens? So far, in my solve, extracting numbers from the poem haven’t revealed anything to me. Am I missing something? My solve is pretty much straight forward. You said yours was acquired by thinking way outside the box. If it’s way outside, surely you can give me something on your line of thought without giving it away. Have you made it out there yet?

        • I am in the Rockies now, the weather is good. Came from SF Ca. From my hotel to my spot is 2 and half hours away. I should know by tomorrow.
          The capitals on that one page is about the start point.
          He talks about death a lot. Why? And he is pilot !

          • Hey Davio, I am excited with you, so cool isn’t it? Thanks for attempting to clue me in to your way of thinking, but it didn’t help …I’m a little slow. 2.5 hours away from site? Why so far? Necessary? Is your site above 9k? Good luck and be safe bro…large mountain lion.

        • Seven thousand feet.
          W w halts, start
          Take canyon, number
          Below brown, number
          No place, number
          End, is a place
          Does any one come up thing like this.?
          When he said,” someone is going to figure it out and go to it.”
          That got me really thinking. 15 years engineering this thing.
          I liked that a lot. And I needed a real big destruction. So here I am, driving to the Rockies.

    • KEN:

      I left a comment for you on this thread yesterday, but directed it to the wrong poster:

      SL on February 19, 2017 at 2:51 PM

      SL

    • Wymustigo,
      I Love the way your imagination works! I fully understand the thought behind your article and appreciate your loyalty to the chase!
      {Standing up and clapping}
      I hope you don’t mind that I printed your dissertation for future reference and a reminder to use imagination and geography to help solve this enigma called Thrill of the Chase!

      • LOL. Make sure your daughter is in fit shape to help you carry the chest, Donna, no matter where you find it.

        Print away, be sure to read ALL the comments from me including page 2, it could be helpful even searching in NM.

    • WhyImustGo,

      One question; Can you explain how this method implies fenn comment that the finder will ask~ “What took me so long”?

      • LOL…

        Be sure to read both pages of comments in that post, it is long, bring Coffee! That will take long 😀

        Even if you don’t go for all the rotating done on the lines below the home of Brown in the poem, the other comments I left pretty much explain why I thought this place was WWWH a long time ago. It includes such tidbits as why it is his “Church in the mountains”, why it involves water.

        At the end just to mess with people, I even left an anagram that solves to words that are synonymous with “Acquisition”, and left an article how the takeover went down. Sort of relates to how that place was quiet back in Forrests young days, and now the people came, so much so that in the 90’s they tried to put a visitor center and more roads. Mr. Francis Brown (of the Taos Pueblo in NM) helped put an end to that madness and the result was 4,000 more acres of the surrounding national forest is now included in the protection.

        By the way, if you correct for magnetic deviation in Google Earth and Fenn’s map, look at what is magnetic north 🙂

        See here: http://mysteriouswritings.proboards.com/thread/233/north-santa-fe-nm

        • LOL, I forgot to answer your question.

          Answer: What took me so long to realize that there is no physical waters involved in WWWH. Everyone is busy trying to find warm or cold rivers, waterfalls, lakes, you name it.

          Answer Number 2: What took me so long to realize that the first place WWWH’s is in the poem itself, thus requires your imagination to thread the water flowing through to poem, down the canyon below the home of Brown as the “treasure” within is being revealed.

          Works for me.

      • Seeker – In my opinion and my experience, when you solve the poem you will understand f’s statement. You will also understand the other part of that statement where he says the finder will not be proud. I too didn’t understand those statements and many others that f has made over the years, but if you actually do solve the poem they will become clear.

          • Jake – No smoke from me. I just tell it like it is. I used to be in the same group as others when f made his statements, whether it be to questions on MW or elsewhere. I used to wonder what he was trying to say. I no longer wonder. F has been truthful through the chase and while his statements can at times can seem very odd, they do make sense if you can solve the poem.

            I’m not looking for confirmation or affirmation. I know what I see. The only thing left is going to the chest. I’m almost certain that at least one other searcher understands what I say and also what f means.

          • Cough, cough while I’m waving my hand in the air to clear the smog.

            You are so delusional that we cannot bring you back to reality.

            The path you have taken leads to a nice vacation & that’s about it.

            I don’t like to see searchers as yourself to be so blinded by your own thoughts that have no chance.

            I will bet whatever you got seeing you made the offer.
            And Zap will sink in the same ship you both think is worthy.

          • Jake –

            “You are so delusional that we cannot bring you back to reality.”

            I just see what I see. Not delusional, just cold hard facts.

            “The path you have taken leads to a nice vacation & that’s about it.”

            I took three quick trips last year to search and they weren’t even vacations. This year I would like to take at least a day or two to vacation after finding the chest. 🙂

            “I don’t like to see searchers as yourself to be so blinded by your own thoughts that have no chance.”

            I don’t wear glasses and the last exam showed that my vision was
            20/20.

            “I will bet whatever you got seeing you made the offer.
            And Zap will sink in the same ship you both think is worthy.”

            I only make bets with those that can pay up. You wouldn’t be able to bet what I would suggest. I don’t see Zap or myself as sinking. There are a lot of things that I see but not that. 🙂

            What do you see Jake?

          • Funny Hma,
            “I just see what I see. Not delusional, just cold hard facts.”

            I haven’t seen any “cold hard facts” by you.
            Just a bunch of smoke.

            “I took three quick trips last year to search and they weren’t even vacations. ”
            That’s your problem. You should at least plan for a vaca & not think you will find the treasure.

            I always mix it up when I go to the Rocky’s & have a good time & the people you meet are going to make your trip worth while.

            I didn’t mention glasses & 20/20 is hind site if you know what I mean.

            I got plenty of money, so you can feel safe making a wager just like JDA & you will have to put your $$$ where your mouth is if you have any. You got my email.

            I see a buffoon clamoring from a place where one cannot account.

          • HMA;

            You ought to be careful making statements about bets that you might loose. There are those out there that just might take you up on your bet. JDA

          • Jake & JDA – If either of you had a clue I, might consider a wager. Because neither of you do and are too scared, we won’t. It would have been fun to make a wager. I normally don’t do that.

          • I’m glad you do not want to take a path you will lose Hma.
            Way too many have done this.
            Take it at face value & go from there.

            I think it’s foolish to bet money on money especially when you got jack.

          • HMA don’t be shy. I would love to take your money. You know my email address. And, I DO have a clue, it is you that doesn’t from all that I can see. JDA

          • JDA – I can’t make a bet with someone who is not certain. It would be like taking candy from a band. I hope you understand. I just did you a favor whether you realize it or not.

          • HMA;

            That is one thing I can always count on you for – making wrong assumptions.

            You ASSUME that I am not certain.. That is where you are 100% wrong. I am absolutely certain about my solve. Obviously it is you who is uncertain about your solve, or you would take me up on my offer.

            Truth always comes to the fore.

            All bark, and no bite.. YIP YIP JDA

        • Hear Me All,

          I am aware of his comment about searchers being surprised once the location is revealed, but I do not recall anything about “You will also understand the other part of that statement where he says the finder will not be proud.”

          Can you please provide a quote and when that was said?

          Thank you much.

          • Pinatubocharlie – I don’t have the quote readily available, however it goes something like this. The finder of the treasure won’t feel proud, but will instead ask what took me so long. I was paraphrasing since I don’t have f’s exact words. Maybe a little searching on the net and you can find it.

          • Occasionally I forward parts of emails to Dal for use in his blog to add human interest for others who are in the search, but I never would if it made a difference or in any way might point someone toward or away from the treasure. Dal is also a searcher. I am determined to stay aloof of providing any additional clues that are useful. Everyone has the same information to work with. Some few have stopped within several hundred feet of the correct location, and then passed it by. I said in my book that
            the solution will be difficult but not impossible. If it was easy anyone could do it. Whoever finds the treasure will mostly earn it with
            their imagination. I have done only a few things in my life that were truly planned. Hiding the treasure chest is one of them. And at the end, the one who finds the gold will not feel lucky, but instead, will ask himself,
            ”what took me so long?”

            Yeah, I’m not seeing proud used in this comment… maybe there’s another? I’ll check out JCM’s collective work and see if one is there later. But if I recall correctly this is the one I ave that is found on this site.

          • Thank you very much for finding that Seeker! Admittedly, my memory is getting worse by the day, but “proud” in that context set me back a little.

          • HMA – You are nowhere close in your post about being “proud”. I would have thought you would have learned not to represent something that Forrest said, if you can not back it up with facts.

            Here is the quote you messed up so badly:
            “I said in my book that the solution will be difficult but not impossible. If it was easy anyone could do it. Whoever finds the treasure will mostly earn it with their imagination. I have done only a few things in my life that were truly planned. Hiding the treasure chest is one of them.
            And at the end, the one who finds the gold will not feel lucky, but instead, will ask himself, “What took me so long?”

            There is absolutely NO reference to being proud…Hope you are proud of your good memory. I am sure that your solve is as good as your memory. JDA

        • HMA,
          I gotta agree with Jake on this one… It always seems that, as you stated ~”when you solve the poem you will understand f’s statement.” is used a lot as an excuse for other’s not getting what you might or might not have.I didn’t find the word “proud’ used in fenn’s comment… maybe you misunderstood?

          PS. No research on the net is needed… it can be found right here on this site… all ya have to do is look.

          • Seeker, JDA, & Pina –

            I apologize. I was wrong. I was certain it was proud and not lucky. Guess I should dig a little deeper. Sorry about that.

            Good thing I didn’t quote f, because if I had this vigilante mob might try to hang me!

            Relax and let you blood pressure come back down. No harm done.

            Sorry again.

          • HMA,
            Just trying to keep quote as accurate as possible… no “mob” mentality on my part.
            Too many times a quote gets rearranged and folks run with it and that mistaken quote ends up posted more times then the original.
            I can get very confusing for many…. no harm no foul.

          • Seeker –

            “Just trying to keep quote as accurate as possible… no “mob” mentality on my part.
            Too many times a quote gets rearranged and folks run with it and that mistaken quote ends up posted more times then the original.”

            I understand. Thanks for the reply. I’m still kicking myself for getting that quote wrong!

    • Wymustgo, Amazing, logical and imaginative. I think you are getting way to close to the target. After re-reading TTOTC, your reasoning makes sense. Congratulations!

  9. Tom. H,

    You have accomplished much and I applaud your efforts.

    I believe the following information will prove to be beneficial for you and yours:

    https://okeeffecountry.wordpress.com/2012/10/24/pack-memorial-at-ghost-ranch/

    Arthur Pike Newton was a writer and editor for ‘Nature Magazine’ – His life and history is an inspiration to me. Perhaps you will also be inspired??

    I feel comfortable and pleased to share a most special place where I believe The Flyer has truly felt at peace.

    Cerro Pedernal – New Mexico USA – (Georgia O’Keefe)

    SL

    • Thank you SL, I love the quote on Newton’s memorial marker…beautiful. I just recently learned of O’Keefe also. , interesting.

  10. I think of halt as being stopped and detained for a period of time, then allowed to start up again – like in those old World War II movies where the guard yells “Halt!” and they stop the person to frisk him and look at his papers, etc. before allowing him to move on again. So water that halts would be “detained” in a pool or underground, completely stopped until it starts up again for whatever reason. IMO of course. Rivers that merge are still moving, not halting so I abandoned the confluence of rivers theory, for Sinks Canyon in Wyoming.

    • Hi Warlock62,
      I have entertained your halt definition as well and found that the hot springs in Norris Geyers Basin are thought to travel underground to Mammoth HS and the water at Mammoth HS travels underground to Boiling River. Maybe search those areas as well?

    • Warlock –

      I am interested in Sinks as well and I hope to get out there in May.

      Have you been there?

      Lugnutz

    • Warlock62 – i actually considered Sinks Canyon to be “canyon down” and found a lot of supporting data in the Landers area
      – some data that has been covered in the link that WMIG generously supplied, and a lot more that hasn’t.

      research ‘railways’ if ya feeling at an odd end – good luck mate
      🙂

      (oh wait, i just made a ‘canyon down’ reference, and this is def a ‘wwwh’ thread, right? – darn it, what was i even thinking!?)

      • If you GE Sink Canyon there is a “put in” in red and a “take out” in red slightly more north from the latter. You have to zoom in to a certain amount-it pops up and disappears- and I tried printing it with the Put in and take out on it. It won’t print it that way. From the looks of it too the put in is more south and the take out is north. Not being there, unsure if the water runs down a canyon in a Northernly direction or if you would need to ford going upstream if water flows south.

  11. I am certain the Glacier National Park region should be where we search.
    The clues are all present in the research and on the map.
    Mr. Fenn flew up to this area often in his get in the plane and go for a ride days. The area is distinctive from the air. The maps hold the clues perfectly.
    And I can’t get out to look until school is out in the Summer.

    There are ample parking lots and beautiful views and the time for us to see the glaciers is limited as is our time with Mr. Fenn. White tops, endearing wrinkles, close to God. It all fits.

    • Karen,

      Great idea… GNP does fit nicely with the poem. Also, just looking at Google Earth, it appears to be incredibly beautiful from the air, not to mention what it must look like on the ground!

      Good luck on your hunt…

    • If you search the Glacier National Park region it is an absolute necessity that you bring some wriglets with you. To go without wriglets would be complete insanity.

    • Except cold water halts when it freezes, when warm water would halt it would become cold, not a glacier. IMO he would have said cold if he was talking about a glacier, and hot if he was talking about a boiling spring. So if warm waters really means physical water, then it would be something that is not at either extreme, and halting has to do with perhaps ceasing to exist, such as the Gibbon and Firehole halt (cease to exist) and form the Madison.

    • Karen said:
      “Mr. Fenn flew up to this area often in his get in the plane and go for a ride days. ”

      Why on earth would you say that Karen? Do you have some knowledge of where Forrest went flying around? If so, please share…I’ve never heard him say this…
      In fact, I can’t recall him mentioning the Glacier Nat Park area in any of his stories.

      • He wrote in his book he would get in his plane and fly north to the Canadian border stopping where ever there was a place. If you look at the map there are appropriate clues and the diatoms are of interest. He could go alone without family. Researching the three divides and the history of the area fit nicely with the clues. The fact the glaciers will soon be gone is sad so we need to get people up there to see them. Thats why.

      • Dal, ask him. Ask him about the three divides.
        the railroads heavy loads and what’s a good place to fly into if you were going that far in a small plane. Watch his eyes crinkle. If they do then that’s it. Good Hunting!
        Let him know the teacher from Detroit is still trying to get inner city kids on a bus to come search in God’s country and read Forrest’s books!

  12. Could WWWH be taken figuratively? One I like to think about is Warm Waters means friendship, maybe between 2 countries. or a peace treaty between Indians and Fur traders. Where good relationships halt/stop?

    Also, Warm waters halt/ congregate is when there is a bend in a river. There is a nice pool of warm water.

    • To The RealCatcherin TheRye,

      I am one of those that thinks this is possible. In fact, that was one of my initial interpretations of wwwh that brought me to my starting area. So many potentials to its meaning and so easily it that the default mind set is to the elemental meanings of the words of poetic descriptions . We can all look at an artists picture and describe it poetically individually and we could all potentially use different words of a thousand descriptions. Many different and similar descriptions. This would be an interesting exercise to see and do on this blog !

      I have 2 interpretations ( and a potential 3rd) for my exact same spot, this being a relationship is one of them and the strongest one IMO. It could be about 2 people of similar interests but 2 different approaches to a situation. and from 2 very different backgrounds . There was respect between the 2 persons (warm) though they had different ideas of how things work and what works better. This balance of relation shifted due to competition that both became competitors in (wwwh). One won , the other lost. One that lost hated the one that won after. The winner won because they didn’t see it as a competition but they won because their idea was simply better ,The winner didn’t see it as a competition at all but it was a competition non-the -less. FF mentioned who one of them was and has respect for the one that won.It is of a historical significance of new and old from then and also now. I read it from somewhere else, not here on this blog. There is more in the poem that is connected to this- a total of 3 lines that I can relate it to.

      I see parallels in this poem.

      Rare and simple ideas my just solve this poem and find the TC. So far it looks to be of the very rare it will be found.

      Anything is possible at this point. It is humorous for people to say others are wrong when no one is right…yet.!

    • Fenn said, there are many places where warm waters halt north of Santa Fe, or something like that. If it is a friendship between 2 countries, I do not see that being many.

    • Hi Montana Marve…. yep, or at 32 degrees. or over a cliff. or in a basin, or at a confluence, or at a designated state fishing line, or, or, or, …. as Fenn said, there are many & most are north of Santa Fe.

      My two questions remain… if the LGI got the first two clues right,.. 1.) WERE THEY NAILED DOWN? Or just a good probability from among the many WWWH’s. And 2.) is WWWH one of the first two clues?

      I’ve been here a long time and still nothing is ‘Nailed Down’, nor is the order or count sure. Good luck all.

  13. One idea I had for WWWH –

    The border between USA-CANADA. Warm waters could mean friendships. imo.

    • I thought the same. I am Canadian and live just North of Montana. I thought of Waterton National Park which is split right down the middle of the lake. Lots of potentials in view of the poem. There is a very warm working relationship with Canada and the USA there though..so no halt in that relationship. Who knows there or along that area could be where. But I left that area as an idea awhile ago. I couldn’t get more than 3 strong clue matches there and the rest just didn’t fit IMO.Who knows for sure yet.

      • Alsetenash,
        I haven’t check in on it as well as I should, but that area I believe has a no mans land. a point that is neither in the US or Canada… some 1925 [ or there about ] treaty, if I recall correctly.
        Be a great place to hide something with seemingly no problem of ownership. However, I have not looked into the legality of it all… so take this post with a grain of salt.

        • International peace park, I believe. Look up koontaie Brown. Also mt Cleveland is there.possible home of brown? Like football team?

          • To Seeker and Catcher of the rye,

            Yes, I had investigated the area of Waterton as thoroughly as I could. Canada/US (wwwh) Kootenai Brown, Oil seepage around there that oiled carriage wheels as tarry scant . One of the first oil discovery areas in NM. Goat Haunt pass ( no place for the meek) . Continental divide trail ect. I did lots of research about it. Did the GNP research and bears hump and hidden lake trail. To the sun highway ect. I did a thorough as much as I could think of arm chairing it of Montana. I still think it is very possible. For me I am sold on Colorado. I try to as much to be dismissive of all my thinking in as much as try to justify . My science of thought cannot dispel my conclusion of Colorado as being more plausible than the other states. I was hopeful for Montana and Waterton Part because if I was to search it is not that far from where I live in Canada here. Sadly I just don’t think its there in my opinion. If someone ends up finding it there I will be both happy and disappointed in myself.

  14. A “Potential” Methodology to the Correct Solution —

    If you apply “LOGIC” to the poem, WWWH is not a “clue” that will lead you to the Treasure Chest. I know, I know… Master Fenn has suggested this is a “clue” but IMO he is just testing you…. He wants to know, whether you are “starting” at the right spot or not.

    My Argument – Line 5 of the Poem says: “Begin it where warm waters halt”. Technically, WWWH halts at the word “halt” or at the end of that line. So your analysis (journey/quest) needs to begin on the next line. This is the most logical interpretation of the words.

    Line 6 would be the correct starting point with no focus on WWWH.

    Interestingly, the next 9 lines down (Lines 6 through Line 14) would support the position that each line would be a “clue”. It’s VERY IMPORTANT TO NOTE that Line 14 states: “Look quickly down, your quest to cease”. The word “cease” would be the operative word that clues have stopped. And your analysis (journey/quest) has also stopped. Other lines might help you understand these 9 operative lines and their respective clues, but these 9 lines are the “operative” lines that you need to focus on for the clues.

    This methodology (solution) would also be consistent with someone saying that Fenn said there might be 3 or 4 clues in Stanza 3, which was later denied.

    Just a late night thought, but needs to be strongly considered…..

    Mr. Fenn care to comment? 🙂

    • F DID say “Sounds like there are 3 or 4 clues to me!” When asked about the clues in STANZA 2, NOT 3. You can watch that in his book interview for TOTC. It was denied that he said it concerning STANZA 3.

      • Donna M. –

        Thanks for the clarification. The other quote I love:

        “There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts”.

        IMO… This is just a fast ball being thrown by Fenn…. Let me explain, If I said “There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where green horned frogs jump, and nearly all of them are north of Sante Fe. I Know this statement is TRUE and I don’t know anything about green horned frogs. But, how is this statement still True? Because nearly ALL of the ROCKY Mountains are North of Sante Fe. So “anything” that you put in the Rocky Mountains (by reference) will ALWAYS (nearly all of them) will be North of Sante Fe….

        I don’t think Fenn wants to be an Archeologist… but wants to be a Lawyer, just like me. 🙂

        • The place where green frogs jump with a nice parking lot and a great place for kids to go is the Boy Scout Ranch north of Santa Fe. I was there in June the week of the Fennboree and iI was amazed at the frog callls and the beauty of the place. But it was getting late and I had to be on my way back to Detroit for a new job. So hopefully someone deserving makes the find.

        • Mike – you logic is flawed

          if you claim to know absolutely nothing about green horned frogs, then how do you know they are capable of jumping at all?

          ..or that they even exist within the Rockies, and aren’t solely indigenous to Uruguay?

          ..a lawyer huh? 🙁

    • There is a place warm waters halt.
      Your quest to cease means look down. The box is there. One of my searches was at a high fire watch tower with nine windows. Looking down was a wooden structure. It could still be there.
      On my way to find it I found a home of Brown, a set of old rental cabins near a creek.

      So there are matches. But I could not check every crevasse. Someone with sharper eyes might see it. I searched at an abandoned Pueblo now a National Park north off Santa Fe with a really cute park guide. There was a ladder down into a storage area with a hole and a rectangular space cut into the wall. Easy walking distance from the parking lot and out of the visual line to the visitors center. I was alone and too afraid to climb down the ladder. It could be there.

      • Hi Karen Ruth,
        As you stated crevasses in rock and bolder areas can be hard to search especially if there are many in your search area. If you are truly vested in this chase you might want to get yourself a metal detector. No I don’t mean a big gaudy one, I use a Garrett pinpoint that I attach to any walking stick I find on the way to search. It is great for sticking in crevasses without trying to look in and see what’s in there. Mine picks up even can tags so if something as big as the chest it should let you know in a heartbeat if it’s there. So just something to think about. Good luck. Bur

        Mike Forni,
        Pertaining to above:
        “There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts”.
        I believe you are right in your statement and this is one reason many believe Forrest is talking about hot springs. There are many places WWWH that’s not a hot spring, in fact Forrest has shown pictures throughout the years of such places but not all notice his hidden hints and yes even in TTOTC book Forrest draws reference to it. No I’m not going to say what I found it to be because like Forrest would stay – I don’t want to say because that would be to big of a hint. Hot springs is just to easy of a answer and I can’t say I haven’t used them as my solve in some of my searches. Mike thanks for your statement and hopefully others will open there minds and try to understand there are other options for-” where warm water halt”. Good luck. Bur

        • Bur;

          Your idea of a metal detector sounds good. I use one of the bigger models, but it is light weight, and fits in my backpack nicely.

          True, there are several meanings one could use for wwwh. If a small stream sent into a depression and sank into the earth, to come out later at a different spot could be interpreted as wwwh I suppose. JDA

          • JDA,
            I do actually have a creek that disappears and reappears in my solve area but it is not my WWWH. It is my no paddle up your creek. I found that interesting but understood why and how it did it. What’s funny is this happens right in my blaze area. So guess you could put a “soda in the rivulet” to cool while you secreted a certain stash. Bur

      • It sounds like you have searched some very interesting places. I hope that I can find the kind of place that you mention. Good luck in your searches. JDA

      • Hi Karen Ruth,
        Just something to imagine, think about. He is a art communicater, so he speaks in images.
        Warm water halts…..something begins.
        Chapters relate to lines in the poem.
        There are a few layers to go through. But once you get the answer it is very clear, you got it.
        The photos are A big hint.

        Me just waiting for the weather to clear.

      • Karen Ruth,

        Your response has so many “buzzwords” in it, I almost fell out of my bed reading it last night. Your response parallels one of my favorite solves.

        I generally agree that WWWH is a clue. I love your summary above even better. Let me explain. There are several treasure hunters who believe WWWH is related to the halting of a steam engine train. There focus is finding that special stop where the train actually “halts”. Let’s use our imagination (for a moment) and assume they are going down the right path…. Where does the train halt? The train halts on the train “track”. Now, let’s take a piece of that train track and prop it up just like we should have buried Skippy (standing up). What do you see now? I see a ladder. So the answer to our first clue (WWWH) is a “Ladder”.

        Very interesting to me is that you mentioned the word “ladder” twice in your response above. Interesting…

        Have you found any “ladders” in your treasure search area? I hope your doing your homework. You know there are a few people who are tightly focused on a word that is Key(va). I’m not giving any hints away….. no way to important.

        Remember, if you start on a Ladder and take it down you better go slow its Not to Far, it’s too Far to Walk. 🙂

        Now we are making progress..

        Did you ever read the Story “No Place For Biddies” it’s in TTOTC? No place for Biddies is another way to say No Place for Woman. Sounds kind of mean doesn’t it?? Also do you remember Fenn telling us to leave our partner in the car in MW? That was a little odd too….

        Did you know woman were not allowed in Kivas? It was a spiritual place ONLY ALLOWED BY Men. Maybe those odd stories are starting to make sense now… Just another day of imagination.

        Happy Hunting Karen. 🙂

    • Mike,
      Sorry, I’m not F, but I would like to ask a few questions. You stated:

      “This methodology (solution) would also be consistent with someone saying that Fenn said there might be 3 or 4 clues in Stanza 3, which was later denied.”

      First, I’ curious if this may be the original comment to which you refer (my transcribed notes):
      March, 2013 (aired) CBC radio program “As it Happens” (~4:15 comments start – http://lummifilm.com/blog/CBC2013.mp3)
      The interviewer read the entire second stanza (“Begin it where…”) and, when she finished reading it said, “That seems like a couple of clues to me.” Forrest responded with, “That sounds like three or four to me.”

      Can you cite a source to Forrest’s comment about “3 or 4 clues in Stanza 3” (stanza three vs two)?

      If the “3 or 4 clues” comment to which you refer is actually stanza 2 per my transcribed notes above, can you cite a source where that comment was later denied by F? Or, are you saying it was denied by someone other than F?

      Not trying to be nitpicky here, but I’m always interested in comments made by F, and I believe it’s important for every searcher to see/hear the source for full context before forming an opinion.

      Thanks for any info you can provide.
      Joe

      • Mike,
        Sorry, I missed Donna’s comment above, and it appears you agreed with her, so never mind.
        Joe

  15. In my travels, this clues me in where to start. Remember that everything Forrest has laid out in this quest has double affirmations, just like the end and beginning. WWWH refers to fishing and where different species can be found. This is very important to a fisherman. It’s also only half of the solve. You have to look at the “grand scheme of things” and then again use the clues to refine a location. I also believe that you will never solve this search without being in these particular locations. It cannot be solved at home on a computer or on the couch although these are requirements. Forrest knows the area like the back of his hand or better. That is why he knew immediately where to secret it. It has been a long journey to get to my solve and I have refrained from continuing until his death. Why? Two men can keep a secret. If you were to find the treasure many things have to be done just right in order to keep it. I have incorporated a business name in my home state so I might be able to deduct a lot of expenses. This will also help in taxes that must be paid (immediately) to the state in which it was “found” and in what must be claimed earned income versus capital gains. It must be found in the back of my closet which will mean I have to call Forrest a liar, who do you believe a dead man or the one holding it in his hand? I’d love to present the bracelet to ff so he may take it into eternity and tell him how I plan to perpetuate TTOTC but it may be unwise. Forrest, if you’re out there and reading this, do not be alarmed but give me some guidance, for my days to bask in the sun and wild are also becoming fewer. Most of all, thank you for getting me off the couch!!

    Sincerely,
    An old fart that loves fishing

  16. pdenver,

    Not WWWH – I came upon a small town; Ames Colorado. Have you been to Mystic Falls? It’s a remote paradise.

    SL

    • To SL,

      You are one of the few with same focus,. Ames Colorado was the first Alternating Current Power plant in North America, Which was the the resulting example (Pilot Project) for the AC power plant at Niagara Falls. Which was the ignited the historical “War Of The Currents” between AC and DC electricity for the Niagara contract ! Nikola Tesla and George Westinghouse (AC) VS Thomas Edison (DC) . The first AC Generation plant before Colorado was in Germany and Switzerland I believe.

      The War Of The Currents= WWWH. . Where friends became foes (Tesla&Edison). That is my WWWH. Don’t think so? Look at the poem again with that in mind.

      There I gave away my secret, but not the “where”.

      • The blaze could be a bolt of lightning. That will get to think 10,000 years down the road.

        • Jake,

          Yes and Tesla was a Trail Blazer of inventions! His Lightening Blaze.He fried the dinamo there in CO Springs lol Quit the blaze too. He invented the Remote control, Wireless communication, X-ray, the radio wave, Florescent bulbs, neon. He even mentioned smart phones in our hands! , Allot of what we use today in technology was from his patents-over 700! He was a pioneer, a trail blazer. So, yes, Colorado it is. There are 3 specific locations I am trying no narrow down. Now that I have said all of this stuff…I think people will do some research and the race is on! Expect a “wink’ from FF. I expect that is coming pretty quick now!

          • I’m not a big fan of searching in Colorado seeing there are hints sprinkled in his book(s) & Colorado is only mentioned on the way to get to West Yellowstone & at least one of his friends lived there.

            “He invented the Remote control, Wireless communication, X-ray, the radio wave, Florescent bulbs, neon. He even mentioned smart phones in our hands! ”

            I would have to say F hates some of these inventions & would prefer an oil lamp over a bulb.

            Smart phones???

            You don’t have to worry about me doing any research in your area(s).

          • Jake,

            For my intent and purpose of Tesla in regards to the Poem is just the first AC Power plants and Wireless Power Experiment locations ( he put bulbs in the ground without wires and they lit up! That is all. The rest of his stuff matters not to me here either. It was just a conversation piece of infos.

            Yes, he doesn’t mention CO much as people have said. I never read his books iether because he said there is only a couple subtle hints in them so I figure why read them then?

            There is one thing I learnt in my living of life, is that a secret is the least talked about or mentioned.

            Good wishes to you Jake on your search,

            Cheers.

          • So hear I will continue because I believe in helping people and those of humility whom are thinking of what I am saying and decide to look in Colorado with my hints I would appreciate 30% . I am too far to search.

            The quote I said of ff from his book I read on a different blog was : “2 can keep a secret if one of them is dead”

            Now that is as said by someone in another forum That it is a similar quote from Be Franklin of:

            “Three can can keep a secret if two of them are dead”

            Ok so that is A HINT in the BOOK. Which lead me to Colorado because of Nikola Tesla. Why?

            Ben Franklin discovered Electricity
            Nikola Tesla invented AC Electricity apparatus we use today world wide!

            Colorado..bingo! IMO

            Now read the poem again!

            Please be kind….30%

            Shane

          • Alsetenash,
            30% is better than nothing & I have seen unbeatable odds be broken as you. Colorado is 25% to the map & I’ll give you the extra 5% for searching in the last state.

            I would stick with F’s statement about people keeping a secret. Most smart folks would only tell one other person if that & the less people involved, the better your odds to succeed.
            2 people is a risk.
            3 people 2 more that have to be dead.

            Why keep it on a 1 to 1 & not the similar Q by B Franklin?
            The more they know, The more they show.

            Colorado is a buetiful state & there are many clues there as all of the states.

            I think Ralph Lauren was the one mentioned in TTOTC that lived in Colorado.
            http://www.oldsantafetradingco.com/blog/

          • Thanks Jake,

            My point though wasn’t about the numbers of people. It was about the “similar Quote”. FF Secret by 2 if 1 is dead/ BF secret of 3 if 2 are dead. Both =1 for purity numbers sake. But it wasn’t about the numbers here-the Quote is the point. The subtle hint in Book.

            Ben Franklin= Electricity
            Telsa =Electricity

            Ho hum. Well, if no one finds in by mid July,I will just go get it in August some how.

          • Wow SL, thanks, very interesting. Have you read my last 2 posts?

            What do you think? 30% ?????

      • So are you referring to Nick.
        The Tesla Experimental Station was a Colorado Springs laboratory built in 1899 by inventor Nikola Tesla and used that year for his study of the use of high-voltage, high-frequency electricity in wireless power transmission.

        Very cool idea.

        • Tesla is arguably the greatest genius of all time . He practically invented the industrial revolution but is not well known about in history. The day he died the FBI confiscated all his writings, Anyways ,Tesla is all over Colorado in his history .

          Remember the movie The Prestige ?

          I read somewhere that FF’s favorite scientist is Nikola Tesla???

          So yes, WWWH is about Tesla&Edison War of the Currents. The parallel writing of “i” in the poem with Tesla. How many less would know of about Forrest Fenn had he not created this “treasure Hunt Poem”

          Tesla’s favorite writer was German Poet Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe and he was best friends with Mark Twain. Do you know why Samuel Langhorne Clemens called himself Mark Twain? A kid would know…..

          Just some of my research thoughts. But yes, Tesla is in parallel in the poem IMO.

          • Bob Miller,

            You are wise! Yes, shane+ tesla= Alsetenash. I chose that when I decided to start posting after awhile reading here. I always based my search on my theory. Related? Related to whom are you referring?

          • I thought perhaps you are a relative of Nicolai. A lot of folks think my real name is Bob Miller…..Good luck on the quest!

          • Bob,

            No, am not related to Nikola Tesla . Just a “twilight zone” situation sort of way 🙂 .

            You said “A lot of folks think my real name is Bob Miller” Do you mean just a chosen handle not having anything to do with name Bob Miller? Just a fake name? Or a mystery shall this be?

            Someone used my name already so, I came up with the name based on what I said above.

          • Thanks SL,

            No one is interested. Clarion call completed. I will just go in June and /or August and get it. !00% instead.

            No more clues from me.
            If I find it in June,
            I will bring it to Fennboree.

            ( I know, as if I know anyways 🙂 )

            Cheers!

          • We all are filled with “confidence” when the solve is completed on paper, and then we put boots on the ground and realize there was a mistake.

            May I ask you what state you are seeking in?

            Good luck!

          • Tim,

            Yep, that is true in so many ways. I haven’t BTOG at all. I think that there is 3 clues that are BTOG absolute to solve the clues and poem. No other way around it to figuring them out IMO. Confidence is the tricky part for me with this kind of stuff too. How and why is a confidence achieved? Review, research, analysis, perform debunk analysis test to counter confidence conclusion. ect ect.

            Confidence is by the what means to and end is it achieved. Therefore, my confidence level can be measured by a percentage for confidence- I am 66.7% confident . The 33.3% that remains is BOTG to be achieved. There is no other way!

            IMO

            Colorado is where I am focused.

          • *wipes his brow*

            PHEW!!!!

            I’m in MT….good to hear your solve and mine are not the same…..LOL

            I’m now at a higher level of confidence this time…..this is my second time around….IMO…it doesn’t/won’t get any easier to achieve 100% unless you do have boots on the ground and chest in hand.

            I also agree that one must have boots on the ground to solve it completely.

            Helpful hint time…..I also believe one needs to read the poem in two ways…a macro and a micro way if thinking…..like someone stated in a previous post….paraphrasing of course….one needs to look at the poem in a overhead view …. Google earth is a great way for the armchair adventure.

            We all do it, did it, it us logical.

            And then….once your search area is zoned in……one needs the zoom feature in GE to find the region and how to get to the region selected,.

            After achieving this ….one then needs to reuse the poem for the clues to navigate while in the region. The duality is uncanny IMO. Fenn was smart.

            Good luck!

          • Alsentenash, there are other ways to achieve confidence in the Chase, I believe. I don’t limit myself to ways of confidence that involves typical percentages like 90 percent or 70 percent. My bet is that way of thinking about confidence is useless since it can’t be measured that way. It’s either all or nothing…

          • Sure, I do understand what your point is. I am simply stating by way of a communicative language ,my current confidence level of my resolve. I am not about working with percentages ,as in mathematical justice, TO justify being the confidence. But rather, expressing my level of current confidence by communicating such a level by means of percentages language.

            100 percent confidence would mean I FF would have to have told me exactly were TC is. I say this a point of reference of the language of wording to math conversion.

            I wish for you the joy of 100% confidence in your search.

      • Alsetenash,
        All interesing, but how do you get around this Q&A? for your wwwh.

        Mr. Fenn, Is there any level of knowledge of US history that is required to properly interpret the clues in your poem. ~Steve R
        No Steve R,
        The only requirement is that you figure out what the clues mean. But a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help.

        Just curious, as you mentioned; ‘He practically invented the industrial revolution but is not well known about in history. The day he died the FBI confiscated all his writings, Anyways ,Tesla is all over Colorado in his history .’

        That seems to be a lot of US history involving a government agency, the industrial revolution etc.

        • Seeker,

          I understand your rational thinking based on the FF quote. Very advisable. I have considered everything as such in every way also.

          So, my response is….and what is everyone else doing to figure out the poem? Is everyone not looking into FF history , their areas history, definitions of this and that, Water meanings , this and that.

          Reading his book and trying to figure out FF’s life and times and basing all that on the description writing of his poem.

          Are you just reading the poem and not doing any sort of research that is not at all required but just reading the poem in of itself? If so, then everyone on this blog is going about this all wrong just like me. Just read the poem and just start walking is the way?

          Just saying. No offence intended ,Seeker.

          Tesla may not be commonly known but is common sense really all that common with this poem? Allot of people know of Tesla just not en mass.

          • Your questions are easily answered… I work with the poem. I have use the after the fact comments to keep me from wondering too far. The only research I do is out of ignorance… no one is expected to recall or know all.

            Don’t get me wrong, I have asked many the same question when others post so much US history to match what they think are clue related. I mean, why do we bother asking questions of fenn if we ignore what the answer is.

            You asked “So, my response is….and what is everyone else doing to figure out the poem?” My answer directly to that is; if ya want to follow the crowd go right ahead. It’s hasn’t had a great track record so far… already into it’s 7th year.

          • Seeker, Yes how true and I am not in disagreement with you. The Tesla part of simplicity is the first AC power plants in North America ( aka Ames) , Plus the Colorado wireless power distribution experiments. Not real special knowledge of that wouldn’t be known to most Americans. The rest of his story would have to be researched for sure .

            With the poem and this attempt to solve the riddle of the poem in consideration of some understandings of historical knowings and present geography of the 4 potential states will require at least some knowledge to be able to interpret the poem meanings of location. The words of the poem on their own are not devoid of some form of inheritable knowledge required be it a 2 year old or 80 year old through experience. Therefore, at a minimum we would require at least at a basic level ;a little bit of knowledge about the author to understand the pretext to his methodical way of writing.

            If we were given the poem by an anonymous writer , who could even attempt to figure it out successfully? Or perhaps not knowing whom the author is would make it easier by just using the poem and a good map.

            Cheers!

          • Alsetenash,

            You mentioned ~ ‘With the poem and this attempt to solve the riddle of the poem in consideration of some understandings of historical knowings and present geography of the 4 potential states will require at least some knowledge to be able to interpret the poem meanings of location.’

            Ok, no disagreement. I’ll extend the thought that maybe more than just the four states might be required in attempting to understand the poem. However, the point is about US history compared to any history… There is a ton of history of the now north America prior to becoming a nation.

            So, I have to wonder if, “a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help”… is that including the history of the nation { USA } or more to the fact, history of the land features and effects.
            Is this why fenn stated; he could have written the poem before he hid the chest? And if so, could the information in the poem be related to things prior to…lets say… 13 year old fenn? Or even, before he was born in relations to what the clue refer to.

            Take in consideration other things fenn has stated; The RM’s are still moving and it will be more difficult in 3009 to locate the chest… any US history involved?
            To keep the quotes down, I’ll simply mention MDavis Q&A, in regard to fenn’s time period or as you stated: ‘The words of the poem on their own are not devoid of some form of inheritable knowledge required be it a 2 year old or 80 year old through experience.”
            Why? does it have to involve US history.
            During that time period in any life span, does the person not know the history of geography or taught such in some form or another.

            Fenn stated, as I’m sure you know, The book, GE and/or a good map as references… yet, a map is of geography in part, is it not? Does the “right” map hold US history? or even have to… But if you think it does, great.
            I attempt to use the after the fact comments to align with the poem. Not as clues or hints, but as simple added thoughts presented by the author of the poem for consideration.

          • Seeker,

            Very well said. I have no point of opposition to whatever you say or anyone else would say. That is the beauty of this chase. How everyone is collectively as individuals using our best abilities of our intelligence to solve the riddle of one man’s creation of a poem.

            FF has his perceptions in logic and discernment of his clues he has written. Though he can never truly view it from the point of perception view of those persons that don’t know what he knows. That is inherent by the fact he knows all and wrote it accordingly to where he put it. It is straight forward for him just as it would be for you or I if we created the poem. It is just not possible for him to view it from our perspective because he cannot pretend to not know what he knows and view it from that perspective.

            So, what he says as all you need is 100% true from his knowing point of view .But what he says to us as all you need is this to solve the poem is not 100% true for us. So, we need more info than just the poem and the map. Because we are way more inherently blind to it than he is.

            If we knew everything FF knew , then perhaps we would only need the poem GE, and a good map. Wisdom and knowledge pretending not to be itself is a mere acting of fiction that is not true ignorance by definition.

            And that is my point as best as I can say it. No offence to anyone intended.

          • Alsetenash,
            Yep we don’t know what was in fenn’s mind when he wrote the poem… other than what he has allowed us to know, or at the very least, allowed us to think about.

            Early on in the challenge folks only had the book and the poem. Now however, we have many comments, Q&A’s and pieces of information. If we don’t take that information into consideration, are we just spinning our wheels in the mud?
            I just think when a question is asked with a direct “No” it should have some bearing, relevance to understanding what is or may not be a good avenue to follow.

            By the way, I find Tesla work very interesting. Just saying.

          • Seeker,

            Yes exactly! The picture in his scrap books with the dove on the moon I think it was. Tesla had a wild white dove as a pet. Everyone though he went kookoo..lol

            If he was less of a humanitarian, less humility, less of did things for the betterment of humanity he would have been the worlds first billionaire but he ripped up his royalties contract to Westinghouse to save his friends business and give cheap electricity to the world . Everyone else got rich off his inventions then and today but not him- ” hint of riches new and old” (parallel ) Plus many more in the poem if one looks at it as such parallels of writing . I believe there is 3 main clues supported by 3 clues of each supporting of those 3 and 1 of 3 of the each of 3 are BTOG required.

            3,6,9 is the secret where.

            “If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a ‘key’ to the universe”. Key is” Riches”

            Thanks all for the interest!

            Cheers!

        • Seeker, I don’t see where f said there’s no need for any knowledge of U.S. history. I’ve never seen anyone that brings up this quote from f about US history logically explain how they think it means no amount of U.S. history is helpful…

      • Alsetenash,

        I had posted Tesla in Colorado information quite awhile back. Fascinated!

        Perhaps, it can be located and uploaded once more.

        SL

        • SL

          You said:
          Alsetenash,

          I had posted Tesla in Colorado information quite awhile back. Fascinated!

          Perhaps, it can be located and uploaded once more.

          Nice! I haven’t seen that of yours you said but cheers to that! Tesla is the spirit that helped him see the words suddenly on hos monitor screen lol. He said something like that I read a quote from him about writing the poem.

          Just a funny thought on my part. Mark Twain humor 🙂

          • Hi, Alsetenash!
            I like all of your Tesla-related enthusiasm and wanted to pass you along a second mystery that I heard about a while ago from a Colorado Springs local (I honestly forget who it was at this point) that I would be very happy to see solved. Apparently, there used to be a Tesla museum in Colorado Springs sometime before the mid-2000’s. It apparently contained a good quantity of Tesla’s original equipment from his laboratory in Colorado Springs. Unfortunately, it got into financial trouble and was closed down (before I got a chance to go see it). Apparently, while the closed museum building was shuttered up, all of the original Tesla equipment vanished. The whereabouts of the missing (likely stolen) equipment are still unknown. It’s a shame and I would like to see it recovered and restored to a museum environment. That’s all I know about it, but if your search ever happens to uncover more information on solving this mystery as well, you would be doing a great service to lovers of history and science!

          • Thanks Blex.

            Tesla is just glaring in this poem. That is too bad, I thought it was still open? If not , I heard most of his stuff was shipped to Belgrade, Tesla Museum.

    • Just for fun. Perhaps you could twist the letters around and get a sounds like:

      Giben…Gibbon

        • Yep, Bob Miller ( not his real name?) has my vote for most likely the genius to solve the poem ..lol.

          Alstenash.

          • Thanks for the compliment, Shane. By the way, my real name is Bob Miller. There’s a railroad that’s been mentioned that goes out of Georgetown, Colorado. I like the idea of steam engines and water halting. Then there’s Blackhawk, and I’ll bet “Browns” are abundant in Colorado. Treasure bold(Boulder) could be pointing to Colorado. And as I’m rambling, what if all four states are involved in the solving of the poem. Would be a long search

          • Bob Miller-IMO I believe Fenn already narrowed down the number of states for us to search. By his statement made, easy to elimate two states! Unless of course he missspoke and this then would be misleading. If he misspoke-it would be nice for him to let us know. But maybe when he said he wished he hadn’t have said that, he was trying to take it back, or could have been he was sorry he gave away another clue…

          • Michigan? I’m not searching IN Michigan. I am searching FROM Michigan. GE and the two books are my tools at this point. I was just suggesting if you in the Detroit area, you can search, too. Enjoy and good luck!

          • Bob, The four states that Fenn has on the map, you can get rid of two of them…narrowing search area! I too am not in the area-I’m searching from Texas! Good hunting!

          • Grew up in Texas. San Antonio was a great place to grow up. Still visit every year. Best food anywhere. Forrest tells of a special place in the Hill Country south of Boerne. His friend said God has a summer place around there. Anyway, it’s not the Rockies but Texas is a great place to search from….

          • Bob Forest his Coach and his dad would search for arrowheads in Texas. We hope you also find some treasures but the box is not south of Santa Fe nor is it closer than 320 miles to Cleveland. My dads grandma lived in Texas and he searched for other lost treasures there Good Hunting. Be cautious and safe

          • Do you still live in mMichigan or are you just from Michigan ? I am from the Detroit area please email me kschnuellruth@gmai.com

            I was fortunate to have 9 months in New Mexico to study the area and search for treasure on the weekends. I attended my first Fennboree while out and had the pleasure of meeting Dal MrFenn and the other searchers that were such very nice regular people with interesting lives. I am back in Michigan planning for maybe one more trip. KR

      • Bob Miller,

        I like the way you think kind of reminds me of me.

        One of my searches was in Boulder and another search used Clara Brown (as my Brown) in Central City- Blackhawk area. If you have Itouchmap or goggle street view look on route 6 off 119 below Blackhawk and where Clear Creek does a double omega. At the second one south above the tunnel portal there is a face of an owl in a rock formation (my wise and found the blaze). I searched all around the rock formation but nothing in fact I searched the whole area. I even put together a pillar or rocks (something like the girl stacked on her pot to divorce her boyfriend) to mark I had been there. Funny thing happen after that, on the way down there was still small pockets of snow and moisture on the grass that about one third the way down my boots slid out from under me and I slid down the side of that embankment for about fifty .feet. Got up a little surprised with a few bruises and scrapes from all the little rocks sticking out of the ground. But like Forrest, I had to laugh about it on the way back to the car. Definitely a beautiful area out there.

        Well Bob good luck in those areas of search, I have since moved on to another area so enjoy those canyons down. Bur

        • Thanks for the info! Elmo, Colorado looked interesting and there was Brown there at one point. Mr. Fenn also made a statement at some point in an interview that from the treasure check he could see animals and smell pinyon pines (or words to that effect). You can google the location of pinyon pine locations in the Rockies. If I am not mistaken, those trees don’t go much past NW Colorado. All subject to correction and is my humble opinion.

      • Someone mentioned FF about Tesla, not here but somewhere else. So, not 100% sure it is fact but I did read it.

      • Pdenver,

        My post seemed to have not have landed here.

        I read that about FF and Tesla but not here on this blog. Somewhere else I read it I can’t recall where. So, i don’t know if it as fact or not for sure.

    • Ok I will say this and it is also a question I have to who wold know why or about it. Left field thinking here I know but if someone know the answer I am all ears.

      Was this a “wink”

      In this blog there is the thread post about last years 2016 Fennboree. Pictures, stories and comments.

      There are 2 pictures in the original post heading. One of the pictures looks to be the CERN particle accelerator apparatus. Someone did in fact ask in a comment “what is that pic of CERN. Is that a hint’?

      Who decided to put that picture on there for the heading? Not really conducive to the poem and Fennboree. Anyone know?

      That is from Tesla tech writings-CERN, HAARP….not Einstein. Doctor Brown in Back To The Future lololol.

      Left field thinking I know..nutty right.

  17. OOps

    I meant ” I have to ask who here would know why ,or about it”

    Not

    “I have to who wold know why or about it”

        • Pdenver, hello I read a lot of your comments and your just about the most honest, helpful and just down right good person, you don’t have to but would you give me a way to contact you so that only you and I could talk?

        • Pdenver, I have noticed on this blog that you are one of the most honest, straight forward, and someone I may be able to speak private to? If you would, totally up to you.

          • Thank you for your kind words, Thomas. I greatly appreciate it. I would like to keep the Chase discussions on the blog, please.

      • SL,

        Now that is a home run into left field thinking hahaha.

        What wild such acronyms and meanings. Strange indeed.

      • “Comparative simulation results for surface mappings generated by the 2D FFENN, Multi-layered Perceptron (MLP) and Radial Basis Function (RBF) architectures are presented” FF.. Map… and Architecture… hmmm….

  18. Well, had a discussion last night with Billy.

    Me: “Billy, I appreciate the help and all, but I really just don’t think I’m smart enough to solve this thing. Someone with mind of a magician, like a Penn & Teller, or a David Copperfield, might have the proper abstract thinking to figure it out. It really is going to take that kind of mind to solve this problem. It’s been six months and I seem to be more confused than when I first started. Some people think they have the whole thing figured out, but I don’t even have a clue. Billy, just tell me where it is. Your a ghost for Pete’s sake–all you ever give me are hints!!”

    Billy Barty: “Listen Sparrow, I’ve told you this before. A smart person isn’t going to solve this thing—–a CRAZY person is—so you are very much in the running. Hang in there my friend”

      • Billy’s such a funny ghost Blex 🙂

        ..i mean, just the other day we were having a great laugh about how he tricked some ‘crazy’ guy into believing that he had a chance at finding the chest

        oh how we laughed and laughed ..until a bit of wee came out – then things got slightly awkward, and he left.
        🙁

          • Hi Sheryl,
            Yes, I use the thrill of the chase and too far to walk in addition to google earth. Throw in a little imagination and I manage to keep myself pretty lost in the search.

        • Hi Jake….why not?

          I’m a guy that utilizes a lot of techniques and to be quite honest…my current solve matches all the clues, matches many things Forrest has said, and includes….”what would ff think”. Did all I’ve done was through remote viewing? No. But I do practice the technique ever so often and does seem to play a part in my solve….to some extent I guess one could say I am “psychic”….not “psycho”…

          :o)

          I’m at a point in this quest to begin my second trip out. I’ve arrived at the final location using simplistic methods and of course logic. That is right….my 2nd trip.

          My first one out in 2015 was not as disheartening as most, because I did find additional clues whike having boots there…..and trust me when I say this…..itf I were to release that information…..it would change the perspective of many people. I’m not willing to do that….unless it is with a confirmed film/documentary company….to legitimize it fully….whike on the quest at the same time I am. Know anyone willing to vest some time?

          It fits the clues in a macro and micro level of thinking.

          I now am looking for a way to accumulate approx $800.00 to complete a 4-day trip and hopefully will be able to do this trip this spring.

          My final destination…..unfortunately is not “named” on any map I have come across, but I know it exists, because one can see it on the map. Very strange if you ask me.

          Anyhow, if you have been reading any of my posts, there are clues I have given that has helped me arrive here.

          Am I the only one who thinks this way? Of course I am….with having the chest in my hands is the only proof I can give that this quest has ended.

          This solve…my sokve…has lots of promise. *winks*. JDA may have a different view upon this. It’s okay if he does…..I’m rooting for him to get to it before I do…..as I do with everyone…..we all need to see this end….this year will be the year.

          Good luck.

          • I guess it’s like your imagination on steroids.
            I do believe in ESP & have noted women to be much more gifted than men for whatever reason I don’t know.

            I just finished a session & saw you in West Yellowstone hiking near a big bear. Be careful out there!

            Your probably not the only one that thinks that way. What about the couple?

            I like the idea of the place not labeled but there has to be labels near the spot in order for F to know some were within 200 – 500′.

            I still think it’s in the Madison’s.

          • Extra sensory perception will not work. You have to have EFP to find the treasure. Billy told me. Extra Fennsory Perception is what one needs to find it. You have to be “in the wood” according to Billy.

          • *snickers*

            Well, I do use ESP, but may have to insert EFT into the process.

            I also “POTUS” you……lol….and claim Carl Spackler is much more knowledgeable with finding things.

            :o)

          • Nice! I always understood it as FSP-Full Sensory Perception. Not ‘Extra”

            Superman!

            Just saying.

  19. So here is some big news. Warm waters haven’t halted! I’m still crying I’m so happy.

    What Happened to that Bag of Money?
    At 330PM Santa Fe time on 2/24 we have raised $5,425 through raffle ticket sales. FANTASTIC !!!

    Still 28 hours left folks. Don’t have warm waters of sad tears by missing out on this opportunity to change a kids life. We are all seeking to re-live childhood adventures on this blog after all….

  20. It was a day I would never forget in the Kansas winter of 1988. When I made the discovery of a source beyond anyone wildest dreams. What hit me in the face was soon a dream for all. After that episode, I then drove on to discover lighting because it had its own dynamics. That was in 1989 when I confirmed my pleasures from childhood dreams. Only ferrous was what made things brighter in the clouds of different color. I knew when I explained it to professor who has been on the same journey. His name was Earle http://web.mit.edu/earlerw/www/Research.html by a long shot. I really enjoyed working along side with him. His side kick Geotis loved to launch towards the moon. Soon what I have discovered would have change lives as we know it. It is my secret only to watch NASA fail in 1996.
    https://www-istp.gsfc.nasa.gov/Education/wtether.html

    It is still my secret today. If Fujita would of only listened closer.

    An Indian Scout and A Saint.

  21. Here is an interesting link on why warm water freezes faster than cold water. Probably not what FF had in mind, but still interesting.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkH2iX0rx8U

    My Favorite WWW is still the incredible scenery on this train ride from Chama NM to Antonito Colorado (link below). Here is another definition of “Halt” (link below). So as you can see, this fits BWWWH (trains “halting” for cool water), and also fits “heavy loads and water high” (water stations for trains).
    http://cumbrestoltec.com/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_station

    Also incredible Brown fishery spot- Two years ago I was hiking along the river looking for TC and talked to two gentlemen from Arkansas, they mentioned the come to same location (on CO/NM border) every year, just to catch some browns.

    Just food for thought- and best of luck for everyone.

    I have a new favorite BWWWH in Wy and its no where near YNP.

    Dayton

    • I concur. We’ve already had a few fires, mainly grass, because of the dry weather. Hope everyone will be mindful when out-and-about.

  22. Jake, Bob, and others, I must say that this chase has been something else! I first heard about FF Treasure mid January 2017. I’m a house frau, not a scientist or mathematician, so a lot of things go over my head, and I have found I tend to experience ADD when searching. Things pop into my head so quickly that I need to write things down as they disappear from my mind just as fast. One of the things that I found and then lost was a post about Fenn marking X on the map, and he stated that he would have not used an X marks the spot but rather a triangle with a dot in it…I can’t find where I read that. Can anyone help me here? BTW My two states that I am working on are CO and NM.

    • Sheryl Lynn et. al., regarding triangles with a dot

      Surveyors have long used round brass markers set in (preferably) bedrock to be a permanent reference point for geographic location and elevation (stamped into the brass at some point).

      US Coast and Geodetic Survey and the USGS both commonly used tablets with a triangle in the middle to indicate that the tablet was used for location only, not elevation (it is called a triangulation station). “Benchmarks” are more robust measurements of location and elevation.

      Best as I can tell, the various markings within the triangle, varying from nothing, to a dot, dash, line, or even a “plus sign” were inconsistent, perhaps determined by whatever the person setting the marker had handy to leave a mark.

      The tablet and triangle carry the meaning of “this is a unique, established survey point”. I have not been able to wrangle that into some sort of useful information regarding the search, other than it is the twentieth century version of “X marks the spot”.

      I hope that was helpful, and not just noise

        • Yes in my search on GE, I have found many server markers like this! Wish I could find where Fenn stated that’s what he would use instead of an X.

        • Yes in my search on GE, I have found many server markers like this! Wish I could find where Fenn stated that’s what he would use instead of an X.

          • Rich-I have gone back and looked and looked. I make notes but not of reference of where I got it. Here is what my note says: TTOTC, heading to the FF point, triangle with dot = X marks the spot =TC and Gold. I wrote TTOTC down as I was very new at this, and not familiar with the term and had to look that up, so it was not from his book. I now have this book and can read through just to make sure! I need to take better notes! Remember me if this helps the one who finds the TC!

      • Joseph,
        “this is a unique, established survey point”
        https://goo.gl/SSglDF

        This Bench Mark is at Taylor Creek where the other fork is.
        It’s marked 2 years after Donnie & Forrest took that infamous trip from Red Canyon or creek.

        Porcupine doesn’t taste like pork.
        Pine needles make a great coffee substitute.
        Lightning will strike you wherever you are.
        My memory is getting weaker.

          • Very dear & special place for him.
            I would think all the clues when married to a map are very special places for him & lots of folks except where the last clue is located.

            200′ is the closest some have gotten after the treasure was hidden.
            What about before?

          • I concur, SL. I believe I was 13 years old when my girlfriend introduced me to skinny dipping. What a wonderful freedom. The past two years, I’ve shared the same experience with my youngest daughter. She thought I was crazy until she tried it. Now our neighbor built a huge add-on to their home, which sits about 15-20′ from our pool. Looks like I’ll have to wait until the wee hours of the morning.

          • Jake;

            I disagree. Yes, the final place is VERY important to him. But the other places are just stepping stones to getting Forrest and the searcher to the final place.

            Was this place important to someone other than Forrest, I would say yes. I think that Forrest and his father spent lots of time here – both when Forrest was a boy, and later in life. Just my opinion – no proof. JDA

          • Yes JDA,
            The beginning is just as important as the end & all in between.
            I can’t disagree with your statement: “But the other places are just stepping stones to getting Forrest and the searcher to the final place.”
            It could be both.

            You’re suggesting the relationship with Forrest & his father holds a clue in the poem? Places they fished.

            This theory shouldn’t be ruled out without further digging.

            I know he bathed in the Firehole.
            Do you know he was at your spot in Wyoming, possibly with his dad?

            He spoke about a few small cities in WY & I think he mentioned Lander.

          • Yea, Quite a flocks going there to search just because he mentioned Lander.
            It’s good for the struggling economy anyway.

          • first i heard of Forrest mentioning Lander, but it isn’t a bad choice of places to search imo

            – Lander was called Fort Brown
            -Thermopolis claims the worlds largest mineral hot spring, as is Greek for ‘hot city’.
            – SINKS canyon, ‘canyon DOWN’?
            – end of NW rail-line “where rails end and trails begin”
            – ‘riches old’ could be the Wyoming Dinosaur Centre
            – WWWH could be the snow line in the mountains to the west

            over-all, not a bad candidate i reckon

          • As good a guess as any one else has had. Let ius know if we have to stop looking.

          • Lander is all yours Karen, as i’m only a semi-serious searcher from afar.

            my master strategy is to annoy everyone else into a padded-cell at an earlier age that previously predicted – until i’m the only sane searcher left 🙂

          • I have to say Olle Caliente has true healing powers and warm water and heavy loads and Brown. And meek.ness

            But the Hyde Park connection to the spa down the road has all of the clues But the thrill of the Chase points to the true place Philmont Ranch was once the Chase Ranch brown. Blaze on the side of the sheet rock wall. water coming iout of the rock and a field full of clearly voicing tiny green frogs in June the joys of spring. I passed the Brown Hotel in town .

            The map is all you need.

          • wow, sounds like you’ve done some good research in that area Karen
            – best of luck with your search

        • Having failed with my “rock shelter lookout for Native Americans traversing Buffler Horn Pass” I am reluctantly moving on from the Gallatins. Now eyeing the rather thoroughly searched Madisons, Red canyon. I think I know where Stinking Creek is (no longer named that I believe, not positive). Looking for “the biggest mountain we ever saw” as a reference point.

          Best of luck you, maybe we’ll cross paths next August-ish.

          • So true pdenver,
            The river or creek was renamed & let’s not forget about the Buffalo Bill Reservoir which is a dam.

          • Joseph,
            There was “Stinking Cabin Creek” which was renamed “Cabin Creek” & it’s above the Hebgen Lake.

            The Madison’s are in GNF.

          • I was thinking of a creek draining the western side of the Madisons north and west toward the Madison River. North of Slide Lake (?). But now I find my note that it is the Ruby River draining to the (Jefferson?). And yes, the Shoshone was stinkin’, but I have more failures to do in Montana before I switch to Wyoming.

            I’m resurrecting prior research and may have mangled most of it.

            Thanks Jake and PD for the input.
            Joseph

          • Before you go there searching, definitely check it out thoroughly on GE.
            I think it will help.

            I have eliminated this creek with GE even though the tidbit from Journal of a Trapper is stated but may be an aberration.

          • There were several creeks renamed from “Stinking Creek” to another name in all 4 states.

            The stinkiest are in WY, my nose thinks so anyway.

    • Sheryl,
      I lived in Lynn, MA for many years & the saying is:

      Lynn, Lynn the city of sin
      You never come out, the way you came in

      You ask for water, but they give you gin
      The girls say no, yet they always give in

      If your not bad, they won’t let you in
      It’s the damndest city I’ve ever lived in

      Lynn, Lynn the city of sin
      You never come out, the way you came in.

      Brian Joyce has affairs there & in NM.

      Anyway, I happen to think WWWH is in the Firehole near Ojo where he bathed.
      I think this is also the 1st clue.
      I also think the last clue is a bathing spot.
      You’re more than halfway home to wash up.

      River Bathing Is Best:
      http://www.oldsantafetradingco.com/blog/river-bathing-is-best

    • Yes, I noted that. In fact, I woke myself up one morning at 2am thinking I was on to something! Too bad that was not Fenn’s X marks the spot! Or rather his ‘triangle marks’ the spot! That would be too easy and falls in the “Great Plains” area-Not the RM. *Anyone know how to add user picture-I haven’t a clue! Some hunter I am! Hahahaha

    • “triangle with a dot in the middle”

      I posted one possible meaning – spiritual meditation – so I decided to post another that is more aligned with the quest.

      This one…..reflects a “triangulation point” on a topography survey.
      The horizontal base allows the surveyor to view the region from three points.
      – to the east, to the west and to the north.

      There is another meaning that is also aligned with the quest and seems to be a “clue” of sorts – if one were to accept this “meaning”.
      – In the treasure hunting world, it could reflect a “triangle of trees” and the “dot in the middle” reflects “that something his hidden” within the “triangle”.

      This seems to be more in line with FF statement.

      Now – do we altar our perception and try to find a “triangle of trees”?

      I wouldn’t put this thinking to bed yet.

      Good luck!

  23. I found the hint

    “Begin it where warm waters halt
    And take it in the canyon down,
    Not far, but too far to walk.
    Put in below the home of Brown.”

    There is 2 parts this hint. I discovered the answer to this hint on Joseph Sharps desk. The clue originally sold for $300 dollars.

    The painting can never be sold. That is why it was put in. There is a reason for everything. 🙂

    An Indian Scout and A Saint.

    • OMG I just realized that is number 9 and 10 is the end is ever drawing nigh. Wow there are hints in the clues as well. I will stick with that.

  24. My guess to poem. Yellowstone represents all. explorer fly fishing Montana. Poem a follow directions map. Hints in book where to start.
    Like this. Start at the banks of the Madison. Follow a well worn trail
    in till you come to a bend or curve in it. Go into the woods here.
    Should be some wet areas at first . Then keep eyes open ahead with
    every step in till an object comes into view. do not miss it. Like a large
    bolder near base of Purple Mountain. Go to this object and look around
    it maybe near base of it. What hints. fishing pole frozen at banks of river. Take the canyon trail, take common trail or take the trail.
    Brown trout live in deeper bends in river. the curve in trail. no place for meek and the other sayings wet areas at first then watch where your walking at first then keep eye open every step for a place where an object
    comes into view… I have heard a lot of ideas but I think the poem is
    is a representation of a map to follow and there are hints to what he is saying in the book. A lot of ideas can be thought of thinking this way.

  25. old thought…

    begin it where warm waters halt and take
    halt and take
    halttake
    haul and tack E
    begin it where warm waters haul and tack and take it in the canyon down… east

    where in northern NM is THE place to haul and tack?
    – either in sailing
    haul – to sail, as in a particular direction.
    -to draw or pull a vessel up on land, as for repairs or
    storage
    tack – (of a sailing vessel) to change course in this way.

    – or fishing (which makes MUCH, much more sense)
    haul – the quantity of fish taken at one draft of the net.
    – the draft of a fishing net
    – the place where a seine is hauled
    tack – a catch, haul, or take of fish.

    • WWWH as first clue is a tough one for me to even begin my search. So many variables. And with warm warm being anything over 32 degrees, I’m not seeing that as much help either. Haven’t given up yet!

      • Forrest gave the best description that I have ever seen, reccently, when he answered the class of children and their questions. Hiis one word answer should really narrow this down…to some degree(s) (pun intended).

        • LMN,
          So warm means comfortable. This still raises question of what is conformable in regards to waters.
          When and where does comfortable waters stop being comfortable?
          Also, comfortable may not be a physical description, but an emotional one.
          So, when and where would the emotional comfort stop? And how do we ‘begin’ it?

          But if you’re talking degrees as in temperature… what is the only real temperature comfortable to us? [ humans ].

          • To me comfortable water temperature is 80-104 degrees. Wondering too if water is really water…like in the Bible the sea is referred to a vast area of people…perhaps F is talking about a warm and comfortable type of people?

          • One does not need to refer to temperatures if WWWH is “the edge of civilization”.

            I also know that one can be “comfortable” while sitting in a hotel.

            :o)

            Just trying to keep it simple for all.

    • Cory Chin,

      [Not in out house…..not associated with a structure]

      Within the context of FF’s comment, I don’t believe he thought of a levee as a structure. However, I don’t believe that a levee would stand the ‘test of time’; ie. most levees don’t last 100 years, (or 1000 years). Remember hurricane Katrina?

      All in my humble opinion…

      • Fennatical ~[Not in out house…..not associated with a structure]

        The comment was in association to where the chest lays in wait…. “the treasure is not associated with any structure…”

        Mr. Fenn, when you said not associated with any structure did that mean all 9 clues or just where the chest sits?
        Thanks, d
        Yes d, it means the treasure is not hidden in or about a structure. Google “structure” for more information.f

      • Seeker – i may tease you from time to time, but i quietly respect your reliability of accurate research, and when you do finally chose to venture into the Rockies, my money’s on you mate

        ‘devil’s in the details’ is the key to a winning solve, imho
        🙂

        • You have “devil’s in the details” in quotes…and say it’s key….who quoted that? One word is key…and shadow is not used in the poem.

        • it’s simply a common expression Sheryl (& no, it’s not a ff quote, if that’s what you’re asking)

          but i believe it was originally quoted from the German philosopher, cultural critic, poet and composer Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche, if that helps belay your confusion (?)

          as to your reference to ‘shadow’, i have no clue as to where that idea originates – do you?

        • curious hobbit,
          One of the main reasons I do add the quotes or attempt to correct an incorrect quote is for my own selfish research.

          I can’t tell ya how many times I’ll type into google part of a quote I’m looking for [ to refresh myself with the full quote ] and the search engine comes up with so many hits of misquotes, It drives me nutz…

          Some example are:
          No clues are associated with structures… That is not what was originally stated, however its out there in the electronic fact finder as a quote from fenn.
          Or
          fenn has stated the first clue is the most important… added in quotes… wwwh as the first clue. I wish it was true that fenn had actually stated as such. But those quotes that pop up are second hand info with no verification of fact.

          That’s why I respect the hard work JCM he put into his documents for us… and folks like Loco who have kept me honest a time or two. Oh, and Goofy as well… he likes to use my own words [Q&A’s] to kick me back into line.

          So it’s not so much to help others… it’s to make my life a bit easier… I’m selfish that way.

        • well, selfish or not Seeker, it has a refreshing ‘butterfly effect’ on those of us that respect and enjoy the honest accuracy of direct quotes, no matter how we interpret them as individuals

          and yes, Loco, Goofy, Dal and yourself are in the top 10 for reliability, imo – even given that ya all are obviously weird in too many ways to count.

          ( ..especially Dal) 🙂

          • LoL, One meaning of weird is Creepy. I don’t want you to think I’m creepy… I am… I just don’t want you to think it.
            If we twist it a bit, another meaning is Funky; fashionable, unconventional, hip… I can live with that!

          • haha, ‘creepy’ certainly wasn’t my intended angle mate, as that’s a bit TOO ‘old skool’ for my liking

            i much prefer ‘hip, fashionable, funky, and (my personal favourite) unconventional’ 🙂

            jeez Seeker, sounds like ya need a well deserved holiday mate – somewhere in the Rookies is my recommendation

            (YSP is my fav place, and Idaho too – but Montana’s def on my future bucket list)
            🙂

    • I would think that it’s man made and not natural…so I would say that’s iffy.

      • Is a levy a dirt butte? (anagram of ‘attributed’)
        Reference to a city on a hill?
        Good morning. Veggies picked, coffee’s ready.

      • wait ..did someone say coffee?! ..oh goodie!
        – milk with twelve sugars please OS2

        well ok then, at least enough sugar to make the spoon stand-up unaided, if that’s ok with you..
        ( ..ten maybe?) 🙂

        • Curious, wouldn’t you rather have a bowl of bananas & berries in some heavy cream instead of candy-coffee? … but if candy-coffee is your thing,.. please do … is that 12 spoons of sugar or one spoonful 12 times?

        • jeez OS2, those berries sound rather healthy…

          ummm.. i’ll opt for the coffee though, thanks
          (with 12 tablespoons of sugar)

          gotta keep my energy up, right? 🙂

          • CH,
            Does that mean you never had cowboy coffee?
            No need for berries or bananas… you’ll have enough to chew on.

          • wow! cowboy coffee sounds just like my sorta cuppa-tea Seeker

            put the billy on – i’ll bring the sugar 🙂

    • thanks SL – i’m trying to create a fan-base
      ( ..so far there’s two of us, including you 🙂 )

      seriously tho – i enjoy reading your interesting links and sound wisdom, so ‘cheers’ back atcha

    • I looked at Lake Abiqu and at a little fish hatchery on-line.
      I looked at Ole Caliente and was so relaxed after soaking for got to search at the church for the treasure.

      I looked at a dry creek bed and was frightened away by a huge snake and a big pile of bear poo but it was located along the road at the north east area of the state and just east of the Brown Family metal Sign there was a cute decaying cabin, an old truck from the thirties, some car parts a huge animal galvanized watering trough and an ice chest ( cold ) Which I tried to open when the snake caused my hasty retreat. Good Hunting to a braver than I searcher. I found items perched on the rocks like clues a cup, a spoon a plate all I left for you to find. it was just west of a bridge south of a wired off property and you should find the back of my shirt still flapping on the barbed wire fence that was not quite wide enough for me to shimmy through.

    • It’s been very quiet lately on this link. Is everyone out of ideas? Or did we get dropped?

      • Sheryl;
        When I went to the “Searcher’s discussions” – then clicked on wwwh it sent me to wwwh – 4 Which is closed. I told Dal about this, and looks like he fixed it. That MAY be why no entries of late. JDA

      • Sheryl;
        Do you have any new ideas? What do you think Forrest means by this line? How can warm water halt? Some say it halts when it freezes, but before it can freeze, it has to cease being WARM doesn’t it? So how, when or where can WARM waters halt? What do you think? JDA

        • I gave several ideas but no starting place yet.

          One is: WWWH could be where the hot spring/geyser flows into a cold stream and to the edge where it halts or stops being warm. That could be where you get out, and begin to take it in the canyon down…I

          2nd is: WWWH is but a shadow of a clue…could be something that was there once but no longer there. Signs of it still may exist-like dry wash/creek

          3rd: F stated to kids that warm water to him meant comfortable. So if it’s literal whatbis comfortable for F may be too cold for me.

          4th: Perhaps there was an Indian named Warm Water…or imo “friendly people”. People you would be comfortable with or feel at home with.

          I’m no fisherman so a lot of fishing terms are all new to me. We Know F loves to fish, so he may have wrapped his poem around these fishing/nautical terms. And in this, I am of no help.

          Still struggling to find the beginning!

          • Sheryl;
            I 100% agree with your #1. The other’s I am not so sure about. Good thinking though – KEEP thinkin’ JDA

          • When I was teaching in Detroit I had the students change the main words to Spainish and see if that made sense on the maps before the second book with the big map came out. That was what sealed the deal for me the second map and what was said about it. kdsr

        • I know you don’t want to hear this JDA…but turning off the water in a hotel/motel/lodge water faucet…..HALTS the water.

          I’ve already stated that one can be “comfortable” in a hotel/motel/lodge room.

          If you were to ask a child – while in the wilderness – they would probably say that “warm waters is back at the hotel/motel/lodge”.

          Simplicity is the key.

  26. Welllll…. JDA, I never saw the statement you are attributing to ff…. but if it is as you wrote it …. my fist thought on ” before it can freeze, it has to cease being WARM” is ff attributing a temperature range to WARM. Therefore “Warm” is not a metaphor for something else, It’s comfortable (supportive) to some life forms …fish or mamma, but probably not just algae. And Warm could still be part of a name.

    Thanks for reporting the link-flaw to Dal. I was confused when I could not get to the active WWH thread. The ‘discussions’ list linked only to a closed thread.

      • Conversations with kids and F

        What does “warm” mean to you?
        F: it means being comfortable

        I think we all agree that kids were referring to WWWH and we are hoping that F is referring to WWWH and not merely the word “warm” but then again, this could be F being tricky!

    • OS2;

      I think you misunderstood what I said. I said: Do you have any new ideas? (I ask a question)

      What do you think Forrest means by this line? (What do you think Forrest meant by the line in the poem, “Begin it where warm waters halt…”) If my question was unclear, I apologize.

      How can warm water halt? A new question from me.)

      Some say it halts when it freezes, but before it can freeze, it has to cease being WARM doesn’t it? (Another question from me)
      So how, when or where can WARM waters halt? (And yet another question from me)
      What do you think? (A final question from me)

      All of the questions were to generate conversation or a discussion. Sorry if my first statement was not clear. NONE of the questions after the statement have anything to do with Forrest. Sorry you were confused. JDA

    • OS2,
      WhatIf warm is similar to a metaphor? But is actually literal to mean comfortable.

      Yellowstone river; Use of the name “Yellowstone” originated with the Minnetaree Indians’ expression for the Yellowstone River. They called it Mi tse a-da-zi, or Yellow Rock River (Haines, i, 4). Both the French trappers, who called it “Roche Jaune” or “Pierre Jaune”, and the Lewis and Clark Expedition of 1805 came into contact with the Minnetaree(a branch of the Siouan Hidatsas), and they called the Yellowstone River by that name (Haines, i, 4).

      Yellow stands for freshness, happiness, positivity, clarity, energy, optimism, enlightenment, remembrance, intellect, honor, loyalty, and joy… [ unless you have jaundice of the liver… just filling in all the blanks ]

      In a ‘poem’; might “comfortable” waters give a meaning to the river without naming it directly? Hence one reason I dislike matching names to places… might it be important to understand why WWWH could be the place to start, and not just a starting place?

      Just metaphorical thoughts

      • OS2,
        Another thought popped into mind.
        “O say can you see by the dawn’s early light what so proudly we hailed at the twilight’s last gleaming…”

        What does ‘O say’ mean?

        Without the full context it can be a little confusing. So, if I asked you where to start what would you answer?
        My answer is not at “dawn” but at “dusk.” The write explains what was seen at dusk [ the flag ] and still seen in the morning light… but never the mention of a flag at this point in this poem. It’s not until ‘ Whose broad stripes and bright stars…’ but still no mention of a flag, no name, just a description. Is this considered a metaphor? IDK… but I like to think I know what it’s is.

        • O My, I Say, Seeker, I find speed reading doesn’t work on speed written threads. Loose things start rattling in my head and it hurts. Similes compare, metaphors describe; I before E except after C or when sounded as A as in….. hey, is that a simile or a metaphor? Is time a river or does it try mens souls? Is life a bowl of sherry, & if I teach myself to fish will I never have to feed me again?

          I had a kid who talked my leg off when he was 3… about everything and anything that popped into his head. I sympathize with your mother. But I am not complaining, just determined to sail on by on a warm California draught. Sorry to you guys in Boston today.
          Good luck to everybody.

  27. IMO I believe it’s where warm meets cold, and nothing to do with warm water freezing.

    • The hot/warm spring meeting a cold mountain river to create a comfortable zone is veeeeeerrrry popular. So popular it is decried “Too Obvious ! ” That doesn’t worry me, in fact, I think my whole solve borders on too obvious. Forrest has said something to the effect of when the solution is known people will wonder why they did not think of that. So, obvious doesn’t bother me.

  28. Interesting conversation gets you thinking,

    WWWH for me depends on what narration or what voice I focus on. But I think I can find more than one WWWh.
    First narration: I get a place in eastern Rockies where the gulf waters turn cold but don’t usually freeze.
    Second narration: I get a got a good clue from a website, but I probably shouldn’t mention it as I can’t just logically define it.
    Third narration: only hear the voice in my head hinting.

    I reread the whole poem not individual stanzas for each clue. I read poem once i see one clue or meaning, read poem again another clue or two and another different meaning. It’s what the whole poem says in it’s entirety, through what I could only call different narrations or voices. Each clue is all the lines together as the whole poem in it’s distinct voice or unique narration. For me the stanzas and book give hints at the whole clue being revealed in each narration. Layers on layers all covered up below the frosting.

    TLC

  29. There have been many places found Where Warm Water Halts, here is one near Steamboat Springs. There’s a place where a river flows between two hillsides and hot water is flowing from one of the hills into the stream. People have moved rocks around and made little pools of varying depth and temperature. You sit in a hot one until you just can’t stand it, then jump in the cold river…it’s an enlightening experience…
    Some place like that is where I imagine it to be.

  30. *smiles*
    Is that a vote of confidence for me?

    :o)

    If so, I’ll take those when I can.

    :o)

    Seriously Jake, I believe that there are plenty of smarter folks out here than I. And as many trips other people have taken, I’m still working on my second, so I am still a bit green.

    Now it would be ecstatic for me if I managed to trip the wire and succeed….but I think I we all look at that avenue until we get BOTG. Then we return home and start all over again.

    I’m trying to slim hate that step altogether.

    :o)

    But thanks for the kind thoughts. You and others are underestimating what you all have contributed. Trust me when I say, this sure has contributed. Many may not realize they did, but the nuggets showed themselves when I was looking.

    I’m not sure on how much you have read of me, so I really don’t know if I helped others. Do you think I did with anything posted?

    I truly now have narrowed it down to an exact spot that could be wet. On BLM land, and it begins from a place the “one could lay there bones on”…..the edge of a hotel or motor lodge or something of that sort. One could literally begin anywhere that has a canyon. But is your canyon on BLM land. That is a good place to start. There is no legal issue with pulling some thing off the ground.

    None whatsoever….and I think FF wanted it that way.

    *applauds Dal’s forum patrons* thanks to all…a very fun and friendly site and very helpful for any beginner or expert seeker.

    Now hush….Curse of oak island is on and I’m gathering helpful treasure hunting tips…..

    *smiles*

    Cheers to you! And if course…good luck!

    Be the chest!!

    • Sorry Tim,
      It seems your reply was to me but didn’t go to what I said & my memory isn’t that good.

      Please try & reply to comments & not start a new thread where folks like us can respond about it when you mention someone.

      • @ Jake Faulker

        I hit the reply button in the email, and it takes me to the input field.

        Why the system doesn’t place my post under the last post I am responding to, I do not know that information.

        maybe Dal is a better person to direct that to.

        And yes, I try to keep the posts in the same thread, but with so many posts being tabulated everyday (440 today), do you really think I am going to go through all 400+ and look for the post, instead of letting the system take me to it?

        Even this response states “Leave a reply to Jake Faulker”. So I am ASSUMING that the system will place the post correctly.

        If it doesn’t…..I’m sorry?

        • No problem Tim,
          My comments land in another space at times as well when one is deleted or not paying attention LOL.

          I was just wondering which one you were replying to but doesn’t matter anyway.

          So are you using an actual kitchen sink in you solve? I think that would be a 1st.

          • Hi Jake.

            Nope. No kitchen sink in the puzzle solve.

            I do think FF is referring to a building of some sort…..possible a place to stay and “lay your bones”…..motel….hotel…..lodge…..a place that has running warm water. A place that allows you to “halt” it….could be like a kitchen faucet….but probably more relative would be bathroom faucet…..as that is usually were most warn water is used…..bathtubs, sinks, etc.

            FF is playing with us…..he knows people would gravitate to “hot springs”….that is why I didn’t.

            I’ll let all those who venture that direction to do so…..it helps me out a lot…..because I know they probably are not in my search area.

            Glad you asked….thanks for responding!

          • Tim,
            So there are bathtubs, sinks & toilets involved. Literally & physically.
            You may think a toilet solve is unreasonable but what happens when your warm (mostly water) enters the commode?
            It halts until you flush it.

            Nevermind, I was thinking of a more natural environment.
            Yea, the hot spring theory gets flushed into the longest river.

            You may be the only one with this theory so your looking unique & will probably not have any competition.

            Isn’t a building, hotel a structure???

          • Hi Jake.

            “Isn’t a building, hotel a structure???”

            Are you already jumping to where Indulgence lies in waiting?

            You can’t do that.

            FF said that the chest is not hidden in a structure……He never made a statement that we should not begin at one.

            You seem to be combining multiple clues together to form one clue.

            It won’t work.

            Sorry.

  31. Davio22 !!! How did it go? Are you back from your trip yet? I m getting a little concerned…no word from you since you hit the Rockies. Drop a line and let us know you’re ok. Thanks buddy.

  32. IMO – the following are my answers to the clues and where they are in the poem. Will I regret posting this information, I hope not.

    I’ve used a general word or phrase in place of the actual meaning of the clue, in order to NOT divulge my completed solve, but intended to help others in one meaning/multiple versions of the poem. Yes, I do have a completed solve that I have not ventured out to test. It looks good and has promise…..but we all know how that usually ends up.

    I also want to include that in order for this poem to be truly utilized in all facets, I think one must utilize the poem in a “macro” and a “micro” way.

    You will see these “views” are embedded within the poem as you seek out an answer to the clues.

    One must look at the overview of the RM (macro), in order to formulate a region to search (micro).
    – WWWH – can also be considered as – “you are at home and you are searching on the computer” – as a place “where warm waters halt”….your home.

    One can also use the poem in macro form to arrive at a more pronounced starting point. My beginning can be an airport – as I believe FF flew to the region he placed the chest in, but drove to the actual location. This would allow addition secrecy to be had at all levels.
    – I also used his USAF “flyover” to be a reference of a similar instance FF had. What he saw from above was a “beautiful spot”, but his view changed after he was on the ground. I think he drew from that episode in his life, when putting together the poem.
    – Using the macro view also allows the seeker to configure a path from a WWWH place after they have decided upon an area to search. Google Earth is “a good map”.

    From the macro, we now move to a micro view.
    – One will need to view the poem in a micro view, but in order to do this, one must follow all the clues from the beginning of the poem all over again.
    – WWWH – Remember that there is only one place that is correct
    – FF said there are 9 clues. I believe that there are at least 9 and can be as many as eleven (11)……and yes they are all in consecutive order. What exactly is a clue? Is a hint a clue? Is a quote a clue? We all use pretty much them all, so why downgrade a clue to a hint, and not upgrade a hint to a clue?
    – How truthful is FF in his “clue giving”?
    + this question should always be the first question one asks when referring to FF and a clue.

    Anyhow…..forum patrons…..you may either use this info for your own solve or leave it entirely alone. It will always be your choice to make.

    I wish everyone good luck in your quest if you do.

    **********************

    Stanza 1 – introduces the seeker to the adventure – no clues

    Stanza 2:
    1 – WWWH = edge of civilization
    2 – canyon down = a physical canyon & direction to take is south
    3 – NFBTFTW = a road trip with some sort of distance
    4 – put in below the hoB = a person and/or place / should be “South” (‘canyon down’) of WWWH

    Stanza 3:
    5 – meek = a forest region
    6 – the end is drawing nigh = a road being taken / you are near “the end” / “to the left”
    7 – no paddle up your creek = waterway / river / creek / dry bed creek / muddy creek with a frog connection
    8 – heavy loads / water high = lots of water? or lots of fish? / mountain lake or secret fishing hole?

    Stanza 4:
    9 – blaze = marked path / trail – ‘supposedly non-human made’, which could be a animal game trail.
    – although some have thought about this being a natural formation of some sort, I disagree. FF tells us that he had “done it tired, and now I am weak”, indicates that there was some effort on his behalf that did require some sort of work. Was it just to take a 40 lb. chest to the final location in two trips from his car, or was it to actually build a trail to take. I think the latter is in play here, because he probably didn’t go very far from his car to cause him to be tired and weak. One would not be “tired or weak” just looking at a “natural formation/blaze”…..it just doesn’t seem to fit.
    – another meaning that many probably have not thought of….a road can also be an obscured version of a non-human made trail, because it was probably created by a bulldozer or some machinery – which technically, the human driver is not making the road, but the tractor or bulldozer is.
    – could the blaze actually be a specific road?

    10 – look down / quest to cease = one needs to be above and looking down at the area that contains Indulgence
    11 – tarry scant / marvel gaze = covered in tar…..OR…..only covered in an inadequate/small amount or tar that can’t easily be seen unless you are right on top of the “mark” (blaze?) / excitement

    Stanza 5 – reason why the puzzle was done

    Stanza 6 – legalities of ownership

    **************************

    FYI – I was unable to find all the clues in a macro view – as FF had stated a seeker cannot find the “blaze” while sitting at home on a computer.
    – I believe this to be a true statement by FF. I also believe that one needs to have BOTG in order to complete the puzzle in a “micro” view and for the final three or four clues….and find the “blaze”.

    Good luck and hope this helps.

    “Be the chest!”

    • Thanks Tim for your write-up. You have done a lot of thinking. Good luck to you in your MICRO search. JDA

    • Let’s go, well first let’s go over this one more time, begin it at the edge of civilization, and take it in the canyon south , not far but you need to take a road trip for a while, until you see a person or a place, from there it’s no place for a forest region, turn left onto a dead end, there will be a frog in the creek , just heavy loads of water and fish, if you’re wise and found a deer trail, follow it to the top and quickly look down at indulgence, but look for something small covered with tar, just take the chest and go in peace. Tim , just fun’n with you, this just seems harder than the poem, if you hide a treasure and write a poem to it I’m pretty sure it will be there for five thousand years .

      • , just heavy loads of water and fish, if you’re wise and found a deer trail, follow it to the top and quickly look down at indulgence, but look for something small covered with tar, just take the chest and go in peace. Tim , just fun’n with you, this just seems harder than the poem, if you hide a treasure and write a poem to it I’m pretty sure it will be there for five thousand years .

        LMAO, thanks, I needed that…I just quit smoking cold turkey so I can return to the chest soon. Your humor broke the tension of day 3…I owe you one Thomas!

      • Crazy thinking, huh?

        I know it is….but to be like an eccentric, wild-eyed 80 year old, I think I am still in the ball park.

        :o)

        Thanks for the chuckle!

        ;o)

      • [note to self: look for a frog on google earth. it should be in a creek with lots of fish and water in it and close to a road that stops. then just follow a deer trail straight to the chest, which is located near a small amount of tar..]

        oh wait! ..what colour is the frog thomas?
        🙂

        • I had already been thinking that the reference to frogs might be a hint, in that since they are amphibious and can go in and out of water, that the treasure might be at the edge of a creek – both in and out of water.

        • i was just fun’n with thomas, but i like your thinking JBL

          i always imagine the chest to be located at the origin of a small brook (200′ from a creek?) which is dry in summer but wet(ish) in winter, as creeks tend to flash-flood on occasion, (depending on the local geography)

          hope you’re well 🙂

          • Oh, I know you were just Finn’n. I love your sense of humor! You and Sparrow should get together and take your comedy show on the road.

            Still home bound, but still have hope. Have a wonderful day!

          • well, just between you and me, i think Sparrow might be seriously weird
            ..Billy and Elvis have both confirmed this, on numerous occasions, so it must be true.

            sorry to hear you’re home-bound JBL, but ya better get up and get ya skates on pronto! – before Stinky Pete (from toy-story) finds that darn chest 🙁

            oh, and Tim’s talking to himself again
            (just smile and nod, smile and nod ..and slowly back away towards the nearest exit) 🙂

          • LOL

            I am not!!

            Stop that, Tim.

            No, you stop that.

            Were you saying something, Sparrow?

            :o)

          • My apologies….added wrong name…..

            Were you saying something, “Hobbit”?

            :o)

          • smiling and nodding, smiling and nodding

            ( ..and nearly tripping over a chair while looking for that darn elusive exit!) 🙂

          • Where did Billy and Elvis confirm this, the internet? If it’s on the internet then it must be true! Oh my!

            I hope Stinky Pete is out chasing wild geese.

            Smiling and nodding, smiling and nodding, smiling and nod…zzzzz

          • Elvis is actually an unreliable source to be honest with you. Now Billy, he’s usually filled with good information. 🙂

          • Curious hobbit, so are you saying the dry creek or wet (ish) creek is the one without a paddle and that why there are people walking up it, but what they don’t know is the chest is 200′ over from there in a brook. Lol just fun’n, I thought it was in the wood.

          • So Sparrow, did Elvis tell you to look in MT but Billy tell you to look in WY? I promise not to tell CH ’cause he has loose lips (or so he says). I’m going back to WY if I ever get out of this bed. Watching Expedition Unknown while dreaming of treasure. (That’s how I learned of the treasure last summer.)

          • JBL—-

            Yes— Billy Barty and my Grandmothers’ departed spirit both say Wyoming. Elvis said it was in Vegas and then later he said, with a very convincing and soothing voice, that the treasure was “In The Ghetto”. But Billy is far more convincing, and I think he’s right— it’s in Wyoming. 🙂

        • You would have to talk to Tim about that frog my frog is in the chest and it’s GOLD! !!!

        • Sparrow,
          Thank ya, thank ya very much.
          (Sorrry, I’m not good with impersonations. That’s a wink if my emoji doesn’t show up.)

          • haha, i see what you did there JBL (you’re good!) ..but it seems like Sparrow may have left the building 🙂

            this comment is sponsored by AJ Hackett Bungy Jumping
            – “taking it in the canyon (straight) down”

          • Be sure to measure that cord carefully! I’d hate to find out what the insides of a Curious Hobbit looks like!

      • Remember…..FF said “it is difficult, not impossible”

        I take this to mean one thing…..”it is solvable”.

        However “hard’ or tedious you make it to be, only you will have to deal with that level of thinking.

        I encourage you to keep it simple, as FF stated.

        If you find it to be “difficult”, then you are right, because it is.

        In honesty – I’ve been on this trip since March 2013….four years this month.

        Did you think if it was simple enough to be solved in a short time. I never did….but then again, I never thought I would be able to look for a hidden treasure, that has a solvable map.

        So, I guess, my patience is paying off…..for me…..while I am thinking it is difficult, but solvable, instead of difficult and will lay undisturbed for many thousands of years.

        I guess being optimistic is essential in finding the chest.

        • Tim ~’I encourage you to keep it simple, as FF stated.’

          Lets keep it simple… how do you expect the clue wwwh to last as a clue if its a building?
          IF we think tub, sink, toilet etc… what are they but a basin, right?
          A comprehensive knowledge of geography might help…
          There are many wwwh in the RM’s and nearly all are N. of SF.

          Maybe the information is not so a small location as an over all location. Example; the Mississippi river ‘basin’

          Just because we know there are 9 clues within the poem [ and Tim, as you claim maybe 11 ] are each clue a different single location?

          I’m right back to the same old question… how many clues does it take to get an answer ? Location.

          • Hi Seeker.

            Yep…I’ve always kept it “simple”.

            That is another key word in Fennology.

            What exactly is simple in regards to the poem? What does that refer too?

            Is it a simple task? Not according to the poem…it made him “weak”. That isn’t simple…doesn’t even sounds simple.

            Keep what simple?…..our thoughts? Okay I have.

            How complex is it to say to someone while you are out in the wilderness…”hey…where can I get some warm waters?”.

            The simple answer could be…..”back at the hotel”…..”back at the motel”….”back at the lodge”….

            Of course “not springs” is viable….but we aren’t on vacation…..are we?

            Neither was FF.

            Oh…there maybe a vacation included, but we both know, that it will be a working adventure of a lifetime…..fun to be had.

            I keep it very simple, and even have echoed that comment many times on these forums…..keeping it simple is a key.

            You saw my choices….are they too complex or are they simple?

            Simple meaning “unsophisticated” (15).
            http://www.dictionary.com/browse/simple?s=t
            You’ve seen FF in action with this in his quotes, how he interacts with people, and his non-chslant but devious way of word usage.

            IMO – and based upon how you are approaching things….you have complicated it far more than you should have.

            We both know FF used obsurity tin his word usage…so why not take his literal words and examine them closely as well…like you have done with his poem?
            Don’t you agree that he is clever and manipulated his words enough to keep us guessing or running in circles?

            I prefer to not be a follower, but take the lead in this dance……I know simple…..I know how simple any process can become.Simple you can go…..I know I have gone down to the wire on this one. It is as simple as one can be.

            If you knew my solve…you would agree.

            Of course this is nothing to brag about…I am not doing that….I actually put my thoughts out here, so you and others can pick at it and tear it apart. I might have missed something.

            If I did, it will pop out….but I doubt you will be able to.

            Please remember. I don’t have anything yet. I also know this is just a guess…but a good one. Who knows what the future holds for it…but I do know I will make the attempt with it.

            What other thoughts do you have?….I not fed you are using a “macro” look….how is that going for you.

            Are you looking in land that is BLM?

            Cheers!

            Don’t underestimate yourself with how

          • My apologies Seeker…I forgot to respond to this question…

            “I’m right back to the same old question… how many clues does it take to get an answer ? Location.”

            I don’t understand your question fully.

            We know it is advisable that there are nine clues in the poem, and many others throughout his interviews….video interviews or radio programs…..I’m not a big fan of the question sessions on another site, because they more often than not….rarely, do those ?? give up any details that are new or is into that is already known.

            How many clues you ask?

            I’m taking in as many as I can, using a minimum of nine. It is your choice to limit the clues, but I don’t.

            As for your single “word answer” of Location…I think all clues in the poem refer to an “location”…in its own way. Some geoligical, some man-made, some natural, some historical, some current affairs, some of everything. Don’t you? You haven’t restricted your thought here have you? I haven’t.

            I think FF’s voice inflection, body language and even the way he may say something are the best helps along this journey, to find the chest….we must think like Fenn had…no strings attached…an all out force to “be like Fenn”. He put the chest there…that is how we get to the chest. You follow Fenn. You go looking for Forrest Fenn. He wants you too.

            I did.

            I even found Lewis and Clark….a graveyard with old bones and headstones, an Indian pueblo, and many other things…..that Fenn had. Be like Fenn.

            The hard question is…..can you?

            It helps….but is hard to really get into someone’s head if you never met them.

            :o)

            Good luck….

          • Tim,
            “*It will be there for as long as time has to come, or until you find it”

            Should the chest pass the longevity of time [ within a reasonable assumption ] shouldn’t the clues have the same longevity ? such as your wwwh theory as a man made structure [hotel].

            You use the idea fenn flew to the destination as well… whether this is important or not to your solve, we have been told he hid the chest when he was 79-80 or 2009-10. Fenn sold his plane prior and gave up his pilot license prior as well. This information has been know for some time now… he couldn’t have flown solo to his hide location during those years.

          • Hi Seeker…..you are correct…..the “airport” was just an example I was using to make a point.

            I had changed my WWWH about two years ago, – which it is a much different location…..but still can be defined as a WWWH, but on “edge of civilization”….in clearly fits the poem in more ways than just this one instance.

            You see….my initial WWWH was a dam….then Fenn came out and said it wasn’t. So, devastated that I was with hearing this…..I backed up my starting point – disregarding any distance – to the nearest WWWH….it just so happened to be an airport. I thought it was a good link to the Fenn history, so I went with this guess as a new beginning – my new “macro” look – in order to find a region that had a canyon in it. From there the clues had to be looked at more closely. I used GE.

            I had to ak myself….”What makes a location something the clue in the poem would regard or connect with? It was a tedious process….but the solve eventually started taking shape….one clue at a time….all fell into place. Trust me when I say this, you have to keep it VERY simple…..not just “simple”…..complicating your effort will complicate your mind which will complicate a solution to a clue. You really have to “be wise” in your selection of what a clue means…….all the while….keeping it simple.

            It can be done.

            So, please don’t think I had complicated things in my process, I hadn’t. I had utilized a lot of historical facts to come to these conclusions, because I now believe Fenn had done the same. TTOTC gives us glimpse of his history, so he must have used it in the poem some way…..one of the “subtle hints” I think Fenn alluded to.

            Cheers!

          • Seeker…
            Tim has a lot of time and energy invested in his solve. I doubt that anyone will dissuade him at this point. As always…you have pointed out some deficiencies in the method described, but only he can decide for himself. I see a picture of a boy with his finger in a hole in the dike…a familiar aspect of this Chase.
            No offense Tim…you are one of the good guys for sure….

          • I agree….my solve is mine. No one will accept it is “pure” and “true” until I have the chest. Even I have an amount of doubt I can achieve my goal…..but my optimism is much greater, and have learned that positive thinking will always end up with positive results.

            I could be dead wrong. Just because the path is set, it doesn’t mean it is the correct path. I think we all agree on this, based upon historical facts and this website’s “solve failures’ I’ve read and seen.

            I ask you to rip my thoughts apart. Please do so. Find the holes, if they exists.

            You are right. I have put many hours into this result. It seems to be “true”. But putting it out here for others to investigate, or in the least investigate what I think are defined as clues…..is an endgame for me. It is a test of the theory. If it can be done….then maybe I missed something.

            If I missed something, can it be corrected without changing the path? Do the clues meet the requirements of the poem? Are the locations described in the poem.

            So far…..they all have been.

            Continue reading the responses others have made to my “solve” and then also read my response to them, that closes their holes.

            If you have a hole you see…please tell me about, so I can either explain what you see, or if it truly is a hole.

            I have not seen any….but then again, I’ve been looking at this one for a few months now……bounced it off a couple of people…..and they couldn’t find any either. It is pretty solid.

            So ken….what do you see as a hole? Care to contribute?

          • Hey Ken,
            I’m not attempting to dissuade Tim in the least… what ever method or action searchers think is fine with me.
            I’m just wondering where the logic is in comparison to fenn’s after the fact comments. I would think, serious thought would be taken as a check and balance to help with ones theory.

            As you said Ken; ” lot of time and energy invested in his solve.”
            I sometimes wonder if folks get so tied up in one theory they tend to ignore many things fenn has stated because they don’t want to feel it was a waste of time… convince themselves it has to be correct because of the that time invested.

          • Seeker, I believe you are correct about people’s pride getting in the way of changing their plan. This is all too common in the commodities market also….somebody has coffee or gold futures or options and when the direction of the market goes against them , well, they dig in until there’s no value left…because they’re not going to be wrong and this time they are right for sure.

            Could it be that some don’t listen good or maybe they just cant remember what Forrest said when dipping their solve map in the final test solvent.

            Imagination is powerful and can show us great treasure, and logic can make it reality, but pride does blind them both.

            PS. Has anyone heard from Davio22 since he went into the Rockies?

          • Hey Tom……you wrote:

            ‘Could it be that some don’t listen good or maybe they just cant remember what Forrest said when dipping their solve map in the final test solvent.
            Imagination is powerful and can show us great treasure, and logic can make it reality, but pride does blind them both.”

            This is good advice. I’m not so sure you are directing this at me and my solve, but just in case you were….here are a couple of comments I think you disregard.

            1. Fenn says we need three things to solve this…..a good map, the poem, and some form of confidence. One could also include the book, a flashlight and a sandwich. But nothing in that statement says we need to pay any mind to what he says or speaks of. He also made a statement that one could locate the chest by just using TTOTC.

            I don’t disagree with any of those things, but I think you are playing too hard with what he actually states in interviews.

            Personally….I don’t trust anything he says is “pure” or “concise” enough to be able to utilize his hints as anything, but a hint. Cleverness is involved, yet you think he is being literal? You may want to readjust that thinking and tweek it a bit. He has said many times, he is a fan of making up his own words. To disregard that statement shows your thinking is confined.

            It shouldn’t be.

            No disrespect is meant on this either. You can believe as you choose…but you also have to take into consideration that you could be wrong in your thinking. When in doubt…throw it out.

            May I ask…how often have you actually done just that…..disregard something “you think” was not viable or plausible?

            Probably many times, huh? Just like us all have done.

            But to conclude that “some don’t listen good or maybe they just cant remember what Forrest said”…..IMO – really has no bearing upon the map embedded within the poem….nor does it have any bearing on solving the poem. One still needs to choose places and locations on their own…..

            Granted FF helps with hints….but that is just about all you get from him.

            As for the “pride” comment…..I agree…..I also think pride can drive confidence. Pride can keep one positive. Pride can be embedded in achievement. I know FF is pretty “proud” of his accomplishments. So much, he decided to share them with others.

            I think you are looking at the “thoughts of others” – in the wrong way.

          • You bet…my comment was meant more in general terms overall. The tone for each searcher is set when a particular path is taken. At some point each has to realize that resetting or retracing may be necessary to get back on the right track. Fenn has made comments alluding to this…if you don’t know where it is go back to the first clue… and others. Logic rules.

          • i agree ken, that Tim is a good-guy – albeit flamboyantly open-hearted in the lengths of his comments, but def a trooper for his tolerant nature and easy-going spirit

            besides, no-one’s located the treasure yet, so my money’s on everyone at this stage ..logical or otherwise.

            (proudly sponsored by Huggies – “when putting-in below the home of Brown, should be a secret seldom shared”)
            🙂

          • Hi CH…you wrote….

            “Tim is a good-guy – albeit flamboyantly open-hearted in the lengths of his comments, but def a trooper for his tolerant nature and easy-going spirit”

            ROFL….NICE!! “flamboyant”!! Well, I’ve been called many things, but never that….hehehe….I am a bit high strung when it comes to my ideology.

            But I do appreciate the kind words outside – “flamboyant”…..hehehe…..it is just so fun to say…..”flamboyant”…..I picture some Hawaiian dancer throwing flamed batons in the air – all the while moving quickly!

            :o)

            As for the “length” of some of my posts…..I don’t want the reader to get the wrong impression, so I try to explain it so they can understand what I say the first time.

            Evidently, even some require additional clarification. Oh well. Allows me to respond again, huh?

            Please remember – most people will post their failed solve. I figured I would try something different. Post a general solve and see what kinds of talk can be constructed from it.

            It appears to be working.

            Truly….I want someone to find this thing. Just to let me get back to my other life! :o)

            I know, I know….”remote viewing: is a dead end. Maybe for you.

            *winks*

            “Be the chest!”

            Good luck CH!

          • My newest brand will be called ” Unleashed”…saves the trouble of having to ever worry again. We’re all destined to that end anyhow….
            Rock on…

          • Hi Tim,
            I like the discussions that you and Sparrow have been having here. I’m keeping an open mind, but for now I think I am leaning more in your line of thinking in that I don’t think there are any TC clues in stanzas 1 & 5. But could you at least agree that “in the wood” in stanza 6 is at least a clue that the hidey spot is in at least a moderately forested area?

          • Hi Blex…thanks for reading the discussion….interesting stuff indeed…..gets the juices flowing, huh? Some questions that may have popped up for you could have been…..”Did I even think of that?” or even “I wonder what would happen if I used that thought?”

            I’m not posting to persuade anyone from their own ideas…..I wanted to see what others think of the thoughts I have, and hopefully includes something that may not have been addressed. I think I did that in many ways. Thus a new discussion is created. :o)

            So…I’m not here to change minds to my theory, but to get this quest ended. If my theory holds weight…..others will see it. If it doesn’t, others may or may not let me know. Of course, I am hoping they do let me know….LOL

            To answer your question….
            “But could you at least agree that “in the wood” in stanza 6 is at least a clue that the hidey spot is in at least a moderately forested area?”
            – I agree to some extent in how you are looking at this…..if you look at the context of the stanza…..it contains two sentences. Could he used these words as just a closing rhyme? We don’t know. Could the “wood” reference be a double check of the previous clue “no place for the meek”? We don’t know.

            We do know he mentions the word “wood” and that does have a relative meaning of “the wilderness”……or….”I’ll be out in the wood hiking.”

            So it does have its relevance within the poem…..and seems to give a clear and precise reference to where Indulgence is located – as “in the wood”…..so one can extrapolate that it “could be a clue”.

            IMO – the stanza also shows PAST TENSE – thus something “historical” has already taken place. Thus is should be used as a checks and balance to ensure you are seeking in a forest area.

            “If you are brave and in the wood” – clearly shows past action and tells the seeker you should have already completed the task at hand.

            Not a clue – but a hint or a reference to a clue.

            Did that help explain it better?

            Thanks for responding!

        • Tim…
          I repeat, you are one of the easy going types that I admire…always patient and gracious.
          Seeker has highlighted a few areas in your solve that may be stretching a tangent or three. I could have stopped ingesting where you omitted stanza ONE. This ( to me ) is the part that has befuddled most if not all who have attempted to solve Fenn’s poem. I’ve been at that cross road a time or ten and continue to “adjust”. I do not claim to have it nailed down…but I believe I may be on the right path. There is a key word that tells a big part of the story…

          • my key word is not “blaze”, although finding the “blaze” is key.

            IMO – the key word I have “discovered” is obscure, but believe it or not, does define one clue to allow the seeker to know of a certain area/region.

            Uncanny as it seems…..this key word seems to be critical….as FF suggests.

            I agree.

            I wouldn’t have my solve if I did not lean heavily on this word.

            Good luck!

          • Sorry Ken….meant to add to this comment of yours….

            “Seeker has highlighted a few areas in your solve that may be stretching a tangent or three. ”

            I know….I’ve opened up a few can of worms that seem to be “larger than life”.

            I’m not in the box anymore…..it was too confining for me to be imaginative.

            I stepped out two years ago….never stepped back in.

            Of course there will be someone who doesn’t think I have all my marbles. That is okay…..they have that right. I won’t judge them if they think a river that warms up to 90 degrees is a starting point. I just feel it isn’t for many reasons.

            – too many people. Thus someone could stumble upon it without the poem.
            – Similar to YNP – but now you have to add in that those rangers don’t like hunters in their park. I think Fenn thought of this as well, so “we can go in peace” after it is found.

            You see what I am doing here? Utilizing details within the poem that eliminates certain locations….a.s with YNP……or in truth…..any part of YNP or a park just like YNP…..protected.

            Have you done this? What other places look down upon us treasure hunters? There probably is many within the RM, huh? Those have been places I eliminated. I just don’t think FF wants the finder to go through any legal problems or any form of litigation if they are to complete this puzzle.

            A trove that is located on BLM removes those legal issues one may think are involved. I know FF probably discussed this idea with a lawyer BEFORE he placed the chest in its location. He had to…..just to cover his own arse and be aware of any liability that may come back to him once it is found.

            Have you thought of this quest on this level?

            You should…..very important. As I also stated….the last stanza clears shows that there is nothing to worry about……which makes that stanza and its two sentences – not a clue.

            Good luck!

    • Tim,
      Have you done this? What other places look down upon us treasure hunters? There probably is many within the RM, huh? Those have been places I eliminated. I just don’t think FF wants the finder to go through any legal problems or any form of litigation if they are to complete this puzzle.

      I believe this “place” picked Mr f a long time ago. This place IMO has drawn Mr f back to it time and time again so much that Mr f decided that he wanted to make this place his final “resting place” ( just take the chest and leave my bones).

      Mr f…IMO…did not pick this place for legal reasons to make it easy for the finder of the chest however…Title to The Gold was left inside the chest just incase.

      I would not discount anywhere in the search area.

      Do not forget…Mr f likes to bump his tires against the curb every now and then.

      Good luck in your search.

      • Hi RickinFlorida…..how’s it going? You definitely have a farther way to travel than I do, if you ever decide to act upon a solve, huh? Good luck is forwarded back atcha! Let me try to answer your comments:

        You wrote:
        “I believe this “place” picked Mr f a long time ago. This place IMO has drawn Mr f back to it time and time again so much that Mr f decided that he wanted to make this place his final “resting place” ( just take the chest and leave my bones).”

        – I agree. In fact, my final location fits this history detail in many regards you know of….as well as others that you may not know of. In fact, I am pretty sure that there is one fact that I have that is not known to this forum – and it is a direct connection to Fenn and the location I have selected.
        – It is a place he is well aware of.
        – It is a place that he has traveled to many times – in the past. Again – this place has history with Fenn. There are just too many instances I have come across that tells me to stick with it.

        “Mr f…IMO…did not pick this place for legal reasons to make it easy for the finder of the chest however…Title to The Gold was left inside the chest just incase.”
        – Yes and no…..Yes FF chose this place, because he knew of it long before the chest was placed in it. There is a connection.
        – No on your thinking that there isn’t any legal ramifications if the chest was not in a place like this.

        https://dalneitzel.com/2013/08/28/legal-ponderings/

        The legal issues stem from where it will be found. BLM land has none. YNP – you aren’t leaving the park. Other national parks….depends upon where the forest is, what type of forest it is, and what type of land it is located on.

        Again – to disregard the legal aspects of this, will cause you trouble if you find it.

        What if the government wants their cut? Are you going to deny them? Or give them 48% of what it is worth in taxes? Will you claim it at all? Maybe you will claim it as a capital gain.

        QUESTION: What will you tell the government when they ask you, “Where did you find it?”
        – The best answer is – on the ground on BLM land, why?

        More than likely, they will turn around and know you have a better hand.

        The truly best answer is…..not to give one, but ask them, where do you think I found it? They would probably respond with, “we don’t know.”
        – in turn – your answer could be as smart as….”Oh, then why don’t you come back to me when you can figure that out.”

        Remember – it is a trove…..not a find, not a treasure chest, not some ancient artifact long lost. It is a trove. This is very important. Please do not forget this term…..it will help you immensely with the aftermath and the landslide of many people wanting to get a piece of the pie.

        Cheers!

        I would not discount anywhere in the search area.

        Do not forget…Mr f likes to bump his tires against the curb every now and then.

        Good luck in your search.

        • What if Mr. Fenn placed in his special place knowing what would come of the chest?

          A skilled opponent is always thinking about there end game, 15 years to plan tells me he put some thought into his end game.

          • *imagines he is talking with The Count on Sesame Street*
            1ah…2ah…thareee-ah…yes 3…I’ve counted to three! Join me as I count to three!

            :o)

            Just lightening the mood with some fun humor…no direspect…just having fun…k?

            Thanks for responding sir. You wrote…
            “What if Mr. Fenn placed in his special place knowing what would come of the chest?”

            Now you understand my meaning of the 6th stanza…I guess it could be considered an “end game”…good call.

            FF must have thought hard and long on the ramifications one would have to tackle. zIMO – before he placed the chest.

        • Hi Tim,
          I agree with you about the tc being on BLM land. Did you reveal your state yet?

          • I’m hoping that “in the wood” is in the midst of the triangle trees and no needing to crawl into an old downed tree! I panic at just the thought of tight dark spaces with bugs and spiders and slithering critters! Even close set boulders into small natural caves has me taking deep breaths! Bugs, spiders and critters oh my! I am not very brave it seems.

          • Somewhere in these blogs I have said it….and I would have thought others would have picked up on the WYP Airport comment.

            I guess not….hehehe

            :o)

  33. Tim—

    You’ve been toad several times that the first stanza does indeed have clues in it. When I read “First Stanza–no clues” I almost stopped reading. I am being very serious when I say that you need to look at the first stanza, and carefully one more time. I enjoyed reading your post though. 🙂

    • Hi Sparrow.

      No one has told me personally what you are.

      I disagree that it does.

      Okay….school me. What are the clues? And then explain how they are pertinent to the search?

      You will have to really give me something to go on in order to even contemplate what you say.

      Just out of curiosity……what does this mean to you?

      “Begin it”

      Thanks for reading my post.

      I’m all ears.

      • Tim—
        “Hi Sparrow.
        No one has told me personally what you are”.

        Well, I’m not actually a bird if that’s what you mean——oh, you are referring to being told about what’s in the first stanza—OK–understand now.

        Yes– I actually think the first stanza gives you the location to begin in. I believe it actually tells us what state we should be searching in. Once we have that information we can then “begin” the actual journey.

        How can we “begin” if we don’t know where the starting location actually is? well, we need the first stanza to cull that information if you catch my drift.

        I would have to ask logically—–15 years to create the poem—and then 1 out of the 6 stanzas has no clues? Nope—don’t think so. Just my opinion though of course. 🙂

        • Yes Sparrow! IMO the first stanza is filled with clues! But still, my BIWWWH is a difficult find.

        • My bad….it should have been written as…”what you are saying”…..

          You figured it out though, so no worries here.

          Actually – I believe that there are three stanzas that don’t include a clue…..#1, #5, and #6. All three of them are explanatory type statements.

          Now could one glean a location from the first stanza? I say they could….if they read “TTOTC”. I agree with FF….there are hints to a starting location……and it does refer to….”As I go in there alone”……

          You see…this is not a clue….it is a story. He is leading us up to the big reveal. FF is like this……he wants us to anticipate the adventure ahead of us…..

          Really – you will have to give me a bone to get me to sway away from my thoughts I have already made.

          • Tim—–you said:
            “I agree with FF….there are hints to a starting location……and it does refer to….”As I go in there alone”……You see…this is not a clue….it is a story.”

            I have to disagree. I will give say one thing—-it is very important that you get the sentence correct: It is “gone alone in there” not “I go in there alone”. You will never see the hint if you don’t have the words in the right order.

            I really do believe that exact wording is very important in the chase. Someone was once making a point saying “where warm water halts”—-this is incorrect—it is “where warm waters halt” (with an “s”)–I believe this is extremely important.

            I really do wish you the best with your search. I will say this—-I don’t know where the treasure is or I’d go get it. But I think I have the state correct, and the general area correct. I’m still working on the specifics. It could take a while. 🙂

          • Hey Sparrow….thank you for correcting me. I was paraphrasing…because it is still a story that refers to a location.

            IMO – that would be a hint…not a clue. Clues are direct references….although vague as they are, they are direct. One could simply they are directions.

            Trust me…I haven’t messed with the poem. Believe me….I have a solid solve.

            But I am also ready to move on it….I just don’t have the time scheduled or money to travel.

            We all are positive with what we have accomplished…be happy for me that I was able to do it twice. I would for you.

            Tell ya what…you’ll get a free ticket from me when I take the chest on tour if the states afterwards…OK?

            *smiles*

            In fact……free tickets all around!!!

            :o)

            May I suggest something….???

            Be positive you will find something, because you will.

            :o)

            Cheers!

          • Tim—

            I am happy for you, and sincerely wish you all the best! Thanks for the offer of tickets. But I’d prefer if you just sent me a Midge Blue Dunn— I’ll need one where Forrest and I are going fishing. And maybe some sunglasses. The sun is going to reflect something fierce off that silver bracelet Forrest will be wearing. All the best to you though Tim! 🙂

          • :o)

            Back atcha Sparrow….good luck to us both!

            And don’t ever think I dislike others commenting upon my solve…..I would rather have others tear it apart to find the holes, before I waste my time with the adventure.

            So have at it….I’ll be honest enough (and maybe lend someone some help at the same time) and return with a reply on why I think this way.’

            Cheers!

        • Sparrow –

          My friend you can just say what in the first stanza tells you which state. Some will disagree, some can’t be swayed. Probably no one will take off for our state. And for pete’s sake, your just naming a state not a TC loc.

          If you actually have an idea that others like it may help YOU solve the rest of the poem.

          For example I believe the treasure is in New Mexico. No one cares. I believe that because when I look back at the beginning the man never said anything about the treasure being anywhere else. Just mountains north of Sante Fe. he didn’t refine that until we started probing him. Had he never said another word we’d all be searching in New mexico.

          That’s my opinion and no one is going to think anything of it.

          Lugnutz

          • Lugnutz—

            I appreciate the input. I was simply making the point that stanza one does have hints or clues in it. Tim doesn’t think 1,5 or 6 have clues. That’s fine. i believe they do. No harm, no foul. 🙂

          • No taken here Sparrow. To each his own. One day this will all end.

            One day we will know who was the finder.

            Keep it “unsophisticated”…..*smiles*…..

          • Sparrow –

            It would be great to read which state you think and why.

            If you don’t want to divulge it now I hope you will later.

            The stories on this blog are very interesting. I enjoy the theories and solves.

            Lugnutz

  34. From Jenny Kiles most recent questions with Forrest Fenn I believe that he confirms my suspicion of Where Warm Water Halts is.
    Jenny asks:
    You often say imagination is more important than knowlege. Using your imagination, what do you think your hidden ‘Treasure Chest’ would be saying, if it could talk? Do you think it likes where it is at? Is it enjoying the weather? Does it feel lonely? Is it anxious to be found? or just what might it be thinking?

    His answer is:
    ” I am sure the treasure chest relishes her guardianship of the rich objects that are concealed in her care, and over which she stands sentinel. They are still in hibernation, but will soon waken as the spring warmth gestures for the Long Tailed Ermine to start turning back into weasels, and the bears start peeking out. I think the gold will again become alert to the tromp and vibrations of hiking boots. Are they hopefully anticipating? I don’t know. f”

    He says that “she stands sentinel”. This IMO may be a reference to where Sentinel Creek joins the Firehole River in Yellowstone. He also says “as the spring warmth gestures”. IMO spring warmth may refer to the nearby Agua Caliente Spring (ojo caliente??).

    His response is very eloquent this time. He just seems to be hinting at something.

    • You have just rejuvenated my mind MH.
      I think he is hinting at the 1st clue & the last clue, the blaze.

      I see Sentinel Creek at the top of the Omega near Ojo.
      WWWH

      • Jake –

        I do not know MH and so I will address you?
        Are you out of your mind?
        After all this time and all this effort Forrest is just telling us to start at Sentinel Creek?

        if that’s true I will eat my hat and your hat.

        Lugnutz Out

        • I agree with you Lugnutz. Forrest said:

          “It seems logical to me that a deep thinking treasure searcher could use logic to determine an important clue to the location of the treasure. Is someone doing that now and I don’t know it? It’s not what they say on the blogs that may be significant, it’s what they whisper. f”

          Perhaps this should apply to FF himself with what he says and stories he posts? He whispers to those that hear and listen good. Not so much direct in words but requires one to lean to hear it better; if only to hear a word or two of what is whispered.

          I hear/see a whisper leaning to a lead here. He winks like he writes his poem. Otherwise, one can be hoodwinked by self without intent by the author.

        • I don’t know HM either but like what he comments at times.
          I am out of my mind at times & is a better place than reality at times.
          We should all get out of our minds at one time or another.

          I hope you have some condiments & spices for the hats, there is plenty of salt already in them.

  35. Tim, a couple of things. Did f really board a plane with a 3 million dollar chest and think it would still be secret? Is that even legal? also, I think you are right about what is a clue. We don’t know, so how could we solve for them when we don’t know what f thinks is a clue? If BOTG are needed to find the clues, we couldn’t solve from home, so how would we go in confidence? And, how would you know what a clue is until you see it? If the clues are in consecutive order, wouldn’t the last line in the poem contain that clue? Looks like you have the 16th line your last, that takes away 2 stanzas of words f has told us not to do. Sense you have the chest by line 16, the last 2 stanzas then mean nothing. With the clues being consecutive, and we can’t discount any of the words, then wouldn’t the 9th clue be in the last line? Or the last word?
    Lastly, not far from his car? With the line in the poem “not far but too far to walk”, and his statement “A polite-like email from Kristie, who admits to being a desk person, prompts me to say that if you are walking long distances in search of the treasure, you’re walking too far. f ” It’s not far but it’s TOO FAR, and walking long distances you’re walking TOO FAR, seems like one needs to walk a long distance.

    I think you are right about one needs to ask themselves what is a clue? Sense we cannot answer that, we then need to solve the poem, and not worry about what is a clue or not.

    • Hey Charlie…thanks for responding. You’ve kid nderstood some of the points I have made.

      FF has/had a pilot license. When that (if) it has/had expired…I don’t know. So it would actually be just him and the chest on a private plane. He gets off his plane and hops in a car and goes to the location.

      Now using that detail….please understand my viewpoint below…..and it is in there…*smiles*…

      1. I have not discounted any words or phrases. I have done everything FF has asked me to do. I’ve used them all. Granted, I did not force clues into the poem, but quite the opposite…..and I was still able to make a solve using my method.

      2. Since I have not used all of stanzas for clue deciphering, I’ve actually used those 3 remaining stanzas that don’t have any clues, as part of the story FF is telling. IMO – you REALLY have not listened to what FF says, if you are questioning me. Example. Where does f say that there are ONLY (key word for my question) nine clues in the poem? I have no link to a statement like that, so if you can provide one, then that would be great. I think his wording is…and pls correct me if I am wrong….paraphrased from the original quote of course….”….there are nine clues in the poem.”
      – that does not mean there are NOT 10 or 11 or more. But it does state that there are at least nine clues….not ONLY 9…. Textual criticism is at work here. If you don’t understand that terminology, pls look it up and read what that process is.

      3. NFBTFTW
      – this was probably the most challenging of all the clues, because it is so vague. I agree…it had to be done by car. My first solve had me driving 50+ miles.
      – my newest solve…..fits better….more descriptive where it is being used, and actually less than 10 miles driving distance.
      – it seems logical that it is a distance by car, because we know GF drive to the location in a car. What I think you are missing, is that the clues between WWWH and NFBTFTW can be described as natural feature? and/or a historical place? and/or a forest. We can limit or not limit our “canyon down” in any way we want, as long as it connects to the next clue.

      Right?

      IMO….it does reflect mileage to the next clue.

      Even after you arrive at the next clue (hoB), the seeker is still in a car and continuing so to the chest.

      But where, huh? So many places to choose from. How do you narrow something so big, to something so small?…..macro to micro again, huh?….imagine that….*smiles*….

      Trust me….my thinking is probably not like others, but I do believe that boots on the ground is rqd to retrieve the chest, but more importantly, to find the blaze ….no other way around that.

      Did that help explain my thoughts better?

        • I’ve think I read somewhere that he doesn’t fly anymore…but I don’t know when he stopped.

          Could it have been a final flight for him?….maybe.

          *shrugs*

          Don’t know.

          He loved doing it…but in all honesty….an airport is just one possibility that I came up with. WYP has a prop job airport….so it is a perfect example. And there is also warm waters there as well, huh?

          Does it mean he flew there or just used it as a starting point? In fact…it could be both, huh?

          Thanks for reading my post.

          • So Forrest’s last medical was in the early 2000’s.
            The airport at West Yellowstone (WYS) has commercial service in the summer. Someone with money could easily charter a flight on a small plane for a couple thousand dollars.

            There are also other airports in the area – Bozeman, Gardiner, Ennis – Big Sky, Mission (Livingston), Yellowstone Regional (Cody), Powell (Cody), Red Lodge, . There are also small private strips (which could easily be used with permission including: Ousel Falls & Nine Quarters Circle (Big Sky), Henry’s Lake, Bar Flying E (Cody), Flying (Livingston/Gardiner).

            Also, He easily could have rented a plane with a flight instructor or a friend, and flown (as long as the other person was the legal pilot in command with a medical).

          • Lots of information out there, huh?

            Are you willing to make a guess?

            ;o)

            Do any of those places connect with you the next clue and have you “take it in the canyon down”….so you can “put in below the home of Brown”?

            One clue can be used as a “checks and balance” of others. I think Sparrow mentioned something like that in a previous post. Could have been someone else, but it was posted – and from what I understood – it was in that type of context.

          • Tim,
            I got into this about 2 years ago. Being an “Indiana Jones” type, I was amazed I didn’t hear about this until 2015. I was a Boy Scout, and have backpacked in Philmont (Cimarron), and love the outdoors. in Summer 2015, I made a BOTG trip to a spot I just “knew” worked… But I only had the first 2 clues (I thought). Came back empty handed, but stopped at Oshkosh (Airventure) to quench my other hobby (flying). I put the books down, and didn’t think about it again until last month.
            Because its time for another vacation, I decided I would try round 2. I had what I thought was a great solve. WWWH, Canyon Down, NFBTFTW, HOB, Meek, Creek, Heavy Loads/Water high … (I still think it is a great backup solve).

            So I said to myself… “Why isn’t this the right location, where else could it be?” I stumbled across some old books trying to prove (or disprove) my “meek” clue and came across something that made me look. I found a new line of locations based on : WWWH, Canyon Down, NFBTFTW, HOB, Meek, End is nigh, Creek, Heavy loads/water high… and Though it was a struggle to find the correlation info, I think I have an idea on the blaze. For the most part, I don’t think anyone would know it unless they were BOTG, because while I cannot find a picture of it, I found a vague description of something I believe is related…

            This area is an area that may have been described in TTOTC, but not in the detail necessary to identify it (because it would be too easy). It is a place he went alone, and would have been with someone else who is now dead (so a secret can be kept). I don’t think it is a fishing hole, and I do believe his dad would know where it was because of the things that bring joy to FF, not because they were necessarily there together. It is a place where you should be brave, but is safe for the family. It is secluded and not high traffic, and there is parking less than a mile from where the place in my mind is. The cool thing about it (if this is the solve)… It could be a kid’s paradise, somewhere that a kid could find all sorts of neat things.
            All IMO of course.

            I do have a trip currently planned in July, but we will see how I can handle the patience and not hop in my plane and fly to an airport in the greater Yellowstone region, walk to the spot and leave smiling :-).

            I challenge most people to look at their solve… and say to themselves “Why ISN’T this the place?” Maybe you will find something that makes you wonder why you didn’t see it before…

          • Hi Jim…..I’m glad you have a solve or two. I hope it isn’t the same one I have….LOL

            But I fell ya. We only can “hope” at this time for success.

            The waiting queue is a bi-otch, huh? Hopefully I will be able to make a trip in May or June.

            Good luck to you….and I hope you dreams of fulfilled. We all need a little boost in our lives. Why can’t it be us?!!

            ;o)

            Cheers and thanks for sharing!

      • Tim, believe me, if you’ve found a way to solve the poem, great. I just don’t see you solving the poem but instead trying to decipher clues.
        There may be 20 clues as far as we know, it’s just f has stated we only need to solve the 9 he feels are clues. You still did not answer the having to WALK question.

        If you have the poem with you, and following the path to the chest, you can then see where the clue are. Clue 1 and 2 from home, 3rd being BoTG, would id when you see it. Same with all the others. You have by the 16th line, the chest, so, I could then throw the poem away, right? The last clue has to be either the last line or the last word. Cannot get around that if clues are consecutive and we cannot discount any words. Solving the poem, following your path, understanding what he means as a clue, not discounting any words, consecutive order, only one thing to conclude. The last clue is in the last line.
        Do you really think f, being a neat freak (his spoons and forks being straight and uniform in their drawer, his pet peeve) would actually cover the chest with tar? Or even have tar on him to spread around the forest? It looks like you are giving definitions of words by what you believe f would define them by. That is force fitting a solution. You cannot know what f has in his head, so you cannot define what he is thinking.
        Of course BoTG are needed, but also a number system is needed. Somehow, you need to know how many feet, or steps, or trees,rocks, etc…are needed if you can walk right to the chest. We won’t be looking down at something when we could walk right to it. To do that, we need a number system. There is no getting around that one.
        If you feel confident you can walk right to the chest, I wish you luck, and it shouldn’t matter what any of us say. I’m sure when you critique your solve you’re hardest on yourself, so maybe you’ve already thought of all this. I just see holes, but I may be just as dumb as the next guy. I always reserve the right to be dumb and confused…Just see that he mentions WALK a lot more then he mentions DRIVE. And Dal might be able to help with the date he stopped flying. I’m pretty sure it was way before 2007 or so.

        • Hi charlie….let me answer your points and commetns….

          “I just don’t see you solving the poem but instead trying to decipher clues.”
          – you are incorrect – I’ve followed the poem and the clues showed themselves. One needs a map in order to decipher the clues, and then allow those locations to connect to the poem. That is the process you need to follow.

          “There may be 20 clues as far as we know, it’s just f has stated we only need to solve the 9 he feels are clues. ”
          – correct…a minimum of nine clues are required…I agree….any more than that, just helps solidify the quest. (i.e WWWH is not a dam) – clue number X to me….or do consider this a hint? Whichever it is, we both used it to decipher the poem. I think you may be trying to make it to complicated.
          – And you are right….I showed the forum my “11 clues”….but if you had noticed – I only used 9 of them to get to the the proximity of the chest….I still have to “look down with marvel gaze”….then use a “tarry scant” to acquire the chest. So I am still doing as you think I should.

          “You still did not answer the having to WALK question.”
          – I’m not sure on what you are trying to say.
          – NFBTFW has no walking, except if you include his walk from his car to the location he placed the chest.
          – Somewhere on these blogs – not sure where – I did post a whole theory on how fast can an 80 year old man walk, how far could he have traveled, and how long it took him to to the two trips. In summary – I think I came up with approximately 1700 feet walking distance each way (to/from the chest) carrying 20 lbs each way (one trip – chest & one trip contents). In one afternoon an 80 year old FIT man could travel this distance, mark a trail in the process and still manage to return in 6-8 hours with a completed mission. If you can refute this information, then please do so. I’ve worked it from many angles….maybe I missed something.
          – NFBTFTW – is drive time in some sort of distance. I’ve always presumed his “at least 8.25 N of Santa Fe” is actually a DIRECT reference to some sort of distance within the poem. I think I calculated it to be an exact measurement for “take the canyon down” clue and it just so happened to match. So IMO – it had a connection and I made one.

          “If you have the poem with you, and following the path to the chest, you can then see where the clue are. ”
          – Correct – this method can be used – if you are paying close attention to your surroundings and also taking into account it is what Fenn had used. Otherwise you are just “guessing”.

          “You have by the 16th line, the chest, so, I could then throw the poem away, right? The last clue has to be either the last line or the last word.”
          – Actually yes and no. Yes – you should have the chest by the end of the 4th stanza, because that is the intention Fenn seems to have made in the poem. No on the last lines, because you are just making a presumption that this is the case. Just because FF said not to discount any of the words, maybe he was looking ahead for the legal transfer and what nots? Did you think yuo just could go to the chest and pick it up…no matter where it lies? You think very inaccurately. There are legal issues associated to each type of land that is in the RM. One – you cannot just start digging up some forest, because you think you can. You will end up in jail. You also may not realize that many parks know about this treasure hunt and have their own rules (i.e. YNP) where one cannot even bring in a metal detector to help with the search. Did you look up the word “trove” and how it applies to the legal system? Did you determine what land is protected from visitors and which are welcome? How extensive have you been with defining all the words in the poem? If you had done your homework you will find that the last two lines transfer ownership from Fenn to the finder. Did you take warning when Fenn mentions that it will be quite interesting interesting for the person who finds the chest and the legal issues they become involve with?
          – you are mistaken that I have discounted all the words….when I have not. I just defined them much differently than you have appeared to do so.

          “Cannot get around that if clues are consecutive and we cannot discount any words.”
          – The clues are and I haven’t.

          “The last clue is in the last line.”
          – disagree – the last line – “I give you title to the gold” is a transfer of ownership and can be used in a court of law as a valid transfer. My suggestion to you, review what a “trove” is.

          “Do you really think f, being a neat freak (his spoons and forks being straight and uniform in their drawer, his pet peeve) would actually cover the chest with tar?”
          – I never said this at all. You are combining things I have said – to make it sound crazy.
          – the chest doesn’t have any tar on it…..hmmm…..never said that either.
          – IMO – the “blaze” is a marked trail. Marked with “an inadequate amount of tar” – or in some manner like this. I’ve also concluded that this clue represents something FF has used in his past to “mark” trails. Could it be a frog symbol, tar, a circle with a “F” in it, etc, etc…..it could be just about anything, BUT….the mark will be tiny (scant) and will include tar (tarry) on it. If one were to go back a clue, you will notice it requires a “marvel gaze” which I have concluded to be a “very careful” or “very astute” “look” to find the mark.
          – “neat freak”….FF is far from this type of person. But he is meticulous and clever. How did you even come up with “neat freak”. Odd.

          “It looks like you are giving definitions of words by what you believe f would define them by. That is force fitting a solution. ”
          – Yes and no. Yes, I am trying to think like Fenn. No I am not force fitting anything. I try a definition and see if it fits. If it doesn’t I move on. If the definition is plausible, I set it aside and move on. After I’ve gone through all the possibilities, I then whittle those ideas down even further. This is a logical progression of elimination and to refine your guesses so they can connect with the poem. It isn’t force fitting, if you are also using a map at the same time you are doing this. You actually can define the geology of a region to see if that area even fits the poem.

          “You cannot know what f has in his head, so you cannot define what he is thinking.”
          – I probably will never “completely” get into his head, but I can define his thinking by what he says or does. I can also understand some of his logic he puts forth, by listening to him and contemplate what he says. Anyone can do this…..it just takes patience and keen thinking. Shoot – business people do this all the time when hiring candidates. Did you think I went into this quest will-nilly without any skills that could be applied? I didn’t. The skills to dismantle a process and put it back together efficiently is a trait I have acquired. I’ve applied it here. Apparently, some may not have this level of thinking, so I can understand that they wouldn’t be thinking outside of the box…..like Fenn had done. And Fenn has referred to this type of thinking plenty of times. I see it all the time on this forum…which is the right way to look at the poem. It is difficult…..but it is also solvable.

          “Of course BoTG are needed, but also a number system is needed.”
          – I can agree to the BOTG….but IMO – it has nothing to do with a “numbering system”. Fenn said no ciphers are needed. You seem to be applying a cipher to the poem.

          “Somehow, you need to know how many feet, or steps, or trees,rocks, etc…are needed if you can walk right to the chest.”
          – I did do all that. See above for an example. Look for the forum that I posted more in.

          “We won’t be looking down at something when we could walk right to it. ”
          – Unless the spot you are at, REQUIRES you to “look down” from a higher elevation. Somebody else mentioned this in the forums as well. I agree with that viewpoint. One needs to be a higher elevation or something “above” to where the chest may lay. Maybe a gully or something like that…from the “water high” location. BOTG is required from this point – IMO.

          “To do that, we need a number system.’
          – No You don’t. But I’d bring a pair of binoculars to be safe. And of course a “flashlight”….because I think the chest is hidden under something that has an external mark of tar on it….and the flashlight will help locate something that is in the “dark” or possibly always under a “shadow”. The chest is bronze colored. If the original patina is present, in which I think it is, then the chest would blend in pretty well with Earth tones and darkness….thus requiring a flashlight to shine upon a “shiny” object, may speed up finding Indulgence.

          “If you feel confident you can walk right to the chest, I wish you luck, and it shouldn’t matter what any of us say.”
          – My confidence is high…..but I know that I can be disappointed when I actually do the search. To me…this is just another game…..there will be a winner…..I hope it is me. If not….I wish the finder “WAY TO GO!!” Let me know how you did it! That is the attitude I have for this quest.
          – I am now working on gathering the finances to travel. About $1000 it will take me to go from NM to the location….two day road trip to location – two days searching the location (if needed) – two day road trip to return home.

          “I’m sure when you critique your solve you’re hardest on yourself, so maybe you’ve already thought of all this. I just see holes, but I may be just as dumb as the next guy.”
          – I have….that is why I put it out here, to find other holes. I think I filled in your holes…..if not…..then you will have to be more clearer or “defined” in your questions……Fenn is….so should you.
          – I have been very hard on me…..throwing out ideas all the time. Maps came and gone…..four years of thought have come to this point.
          – I wouldn’t consider you or anyone “dumb” either. Well, except for all of us taking on this challenge….I think we all have a bit of “dumbness” with the “numbness” it impedes upon us. :o) You aren’t dumb. IMO – you just aren’t drilling down deep enough into the words, in order to receive a clearer understanding of why the words were written the way they have been. It is hard to do…..but patience can pay off.

          “And Dal might be able to help with the date he stopped flying. I’m pretty sure it was way before 2007 or so.”
          – an airport was just an example. He could have driven from Santa Fe in a car….all the way to the chest. I was just trying to make a point….the point being – how can anyone discount this as a solution for WWWH if it fits the clue’s meaning in some manner?

          ANSWER: because we all are just guessing, until someone has their hands upon the chest. Your guess my be good for you, and mine for me, but neither could be correct. So why discount anything? At sometime one needs to put aside guessing and begin applying what you have found to a path. That is what I had done. The path is set. Is it right? Could be. Could not be. I won’t know until I have BOTG. That is why the girl from India cannot get the chest…she doesn’t have BOTG, in order to find the blaze.

          Be the chest! Good luck and I hope I helped answer your questions.

          Thanks for responding!

          • Okay Tim, I see a little better on how you are going. I still see holes, but I do actually agree more with some of your points. Believe me, 6 years I’ve checked every definition of word angles. To think I thought I had no chance when I started because Dal and the vets then had 5 1/2 months head start.
            Anyway, we could go round and circles about the quest ending at the 16th line, so I won’t continue that. We both have our points to that.
            As far as the walk question, like looking down for the chest and title to the gold, it seems you take the poem for “face” value. That’s fine, so when he says “Not far”, means not far, right? BUT “too far” to walk, then it’s too far to walk. He is saying you have “too far” to walk not “far”. He then says, “A polite-like email from Kristie, who admits to being a desk person, prompts me to say that if you are walking long distances in search of the treasure, you’re walking too far. f ” If you are walking “long distances” you are walking “TOO FAR”. Sense we are looking for “too far”, and he says “long distances is too far”, face value says you have a long walk.
            Searching for treasure trove: Treasure trove is defined as money, gems, or
            precious metals in the form of coin, plate, or bullion that has been deliberately
            hidden with the intention of recovering it later. This activity requires a Special
            Use Permit under The Act of June 4, 1897 (16 U.S.C. 551). Forest Service
            Manual 2724.4 states “allow persons to search for buried treasure on National
            Forest System lands, but protect the rights of the public regarding ownership of or
            claims on any recovered property.” I don’t think f got the permit. Him saying “I give you title to the gold”, has no actual legal bearing. And, on lands managed by the Bureau of Land Management, nothing under 6″. But f has buried bells 3′-4′ deep. How could anybody get those legally? Because f says so, don’t think so.
            I’ll keep this short. I am happy you found a way to solve the poem. Everyone is going to have holes in their solution, we all agree to disagree with what we agree with. If someone brings up some good points or holes in someone’s solve, they should be addressed. You have holes, but if you feel that you have addressed them, then there you go. It could be right, who knows…The treasure by the 16th line is a hard pill to swallow. The need for binoculars I don’t see, especially if we could walk right to the chest from our solve. And I hope you are not using the flashlight thing to see if something shines. That one is a stretch.But, all in all, you have some valid points that I agree with, and if you are confident with the holes, then all that is left to do is go get it. We all wish the best and respect those that put BoTG. No matter how broke it leaves them…

          • F stated that TFTW to him would be about ten miles…he was very good at walking, but at 80ish he was tired…so from clue 1 BIWWWH to clue 2 is about 10 miles. From there clues are practically right on top of each other-no need to journey far or you just may miss the trove by 200-500 feet!

          • Charlie….

            Binoculars…just a play on looking for some from above….sort of like zooming in on an object with a pair of binoculars. I guess I need to skip the analogies and metaphors, huh?

            Flashlight….to look for something in the dark…but you have to admit, a shiny item will reflect in the dark to help you locate something shiny. Keep it simple, right?

            Cheers.

          • Hey Charlie ~ ‘To think I thought I had no chance when I started because Dal and the vets then had 5 1/2 months head start.’

            I just thought that was funny, and some think the same way even now because searcher have been so close and have figured out the first couple clues… lol… yet even then, they did not know it.

            I just find it funny that there is so much talk about someone will find it this years because of those comments, when reality say… folks have been that close, stood at the hay stack and still didn’t know it was ‘the’ hay stack.

            It just tickles the funny bone.

          • Lol, Seeker, if I knew then what I know now…That thought and the line about 85% truth that others use to fit their guesses, just throw a wrench into the cogs…Still trying to figure out why the quest is over at line 16 thought, but, who knows…You need to get those gears going again. There hasn’t been a good discussion since your last good discussion, my brain is getting lazy.

      • These are some bits if info that another searcher posted some time ago… how accurate they might be, is up to each to decide… however, they might help in your own research as a starting point.

        1929 – 1937 The Great Depression era.
        Aug 1930 FF was born in Temple, Texas.
        1930’s The Dust Bowl in the prairie lands was caused by drought and farming methods at that time.
        1939 FF found his first arrow head. FF was 9.
        1930’s – 1950’s FF, his father, and Concy hunted for Indian arrowheads.
        Early 1940’s FF’s father had a summer cabin in West Yellowstone where the family spent summers.
        WW II (1939 – 1945) FF was 9 – 15 respectively.
        Korean War (June 1950 – July 1953) FF was 20 – 23 respectively.
        Sep/Oct 1950 FF joined the Air Force 3 months after Korean War started. FF was 20.
        ?? FF’s last fish trip to Grebe Lake with Concy.
        1953 FF learned to fly. FF was 23.
        Dec 1953 FF & Peggy wed. FF was 23.
        ?? Kelly Fenn was born.
        1959 Zoe Fenn was born. FF was 29.
        Vietnam War (1959 – 1975) FF was 29 – 45 respectively.
        Early 1960’s FF trained fighter pilots at Luke Air Force Base near Phoenix, AZ.
        1970 FF retired from Air Force after 20 years of service. FF’s AF retirement pay was $12,000 a year. FF was 40.
        1969 –1972 FF made bronze reproductions, sold some, and traded others for Indian artifacts.
        1972 FF and family moved to Santa Fe with $20k and started Fenn Galleries, LTD. FF was 42.
        1986 FF’s father took his own life after suffering from cancer for many years. FF was 56.
        1988 FF was diagnosed with having cancer. FF was 58.
        1988 FF closed Fenn Galleries and began writing books and digging at San Lazaro. FF was 58.
        ?? FF’s cancer went into remission and it has not recurred.
        1995 The Internet was commercialized. FF was 65.
        Jun 2005 Google Earth was released to the public. FF was 75.
        2006 FBI investigated FF for antiquities theft but FF was never charged. FF was 76.
        Prior to 2009, FF sold his plane and stopped flying solo.
        2009 – 2011 FF hid his chest. FF was 79 – 80 respectively.
        Oct 2010 FF released The Thrill of the Chase: A Memoir. FF was 80.
        Nov 2010 dal decided to search for FF’s chest. FF was 80.
        May 2011 dal made his first search. FF was 80.
        Aug 2011 dal started his blog. FF was 81.

        • Seeker,

          Thanks for synopses of the Fenn.

          Your work here is greatly appreciated. Hope to see you (and actually meet you) at Fenboree 2017!

          The same goes for all of you! Hope you can make it to Fenboree in June, 2017.

          Best regards to all!

          –Fennatical

          • Fennatical,
            That’s not my work. It was a post from 2013 by another searcher. The main reason for it was the sale of fenn’s plane. Personally I recall the sale to be in the mid 2000’s maybe around 2007, if I recall correctly. There was much talk about fenn flying to his spot to hide the trove… I just don’t see it with the comments I have heard or read from fenn… due to giving up his pilot license and sale of his plane.

            Oh! and I won’t be attending the Fenboree. But say hey for me…

          • When is Fenboree? Do we know the date? Do we sign up? Where do we stay? Is there a link for this?

          • When is Fenboree? Do we know the date? June 9-11,2017

            Where do we stay? Anywhere in Santa Fe, or Albuquerque, or Taos, or Espinola, etc.

        • Seeker, regarding those dates (I realize you just reposted them from somebody else), Forrest’s father passed away in 1987 not 1986, I am including a link to his memorial that shows this. I always remember that year because I have sometimes wondered if the first letters (letter = number theory) from the first words, As I Have Gone, A=1 I=9 H=8 G=7, was referring to his father’s passing in some way, and the line is As I Have Gone?

          https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=31303183

  36. @Jake Caulker…this time I hit reply and rcvd “Anonymous” as the poster…strange.

    You wrote:
    “I’m going out on a limb here Tim & say that a faucet, toilet or hotel is or has a dam.

    I think I’m dam right.”

    I ask…..How so? Explain.

    One could suggest that a dam could be privately installed on those kinds of properties, but I highly doubt FF had those types in mind when he said that WWWH us not a dam.

    You can be right in your mind….I am.

    :o)

    • Really Tim (BozoCocks)?

      I can’t wait for all you know it alls to get to your spot this spring & come back here with your tail between your legs with many excuses why you didn’t find it.

      You want people to tear apart your solve but you only throw out a couple of nuggets.

      You do a lot of talking lately with not much substance.

      Gonna be a lot of excuses come spring & summer…

    • Almost forgot Tim,
      Here is a definition of “Dam”:

      5. to stop up; block up.

      A faucet, sink or toilet can be considered a dam.
      They all stop, limit & or block water flow.
      No matter how small, man made, beaver made, they are all about regulating water flow.

      I see a big hole…
      The toilet has been flushed.

      • DAM, and I was trying to be nice. lol, note to self, don’t “T-Off” Jake. Lol, I’ve been using my winter time trying to come up with some good excuses. I think I’m almost ready to post a solve before I go out. I mean, I am the only one that knows where the chest really is…Actually, there hasn’t been to many of “those” people showing up as of late. Maybe one more month…

  37. Blex;

    The thread was too long to follow up, so I will post here. In your comment to
    Tim you posted the following: “But could you at least agree that “in the wood” in stanza 6 is at least a clue that the hidey spot is in at least a moderately forested area?”

    I will agree to that, and a lot more. In my solve I have about five definitions of,”If you are brave and in the wood I give you title to the gold.”

    All that I am about to write, and have just written is just in my humble opinion, and many may disagree.

    As I have alluded to before, there is a very obscure definition of “The Wood” that points to a specific geographical area in Wyoming.

    “…brave and in the wood” refers to a specific forested area in Wyoming.

    “…the wood” points me to a smaller forested area.

    “…the wood” is singular, so it points to a single tree that is in this smaller forested area, that is in the larger forested area.

    “…the wood” – wood can refer to timbers or boards that are dried, and used for construction. This can point to the fact that the single tree I am looking for is dead or dried out, or for some other reason dried out.

    Other references in the poem CAN point to trees, other than conifers that are “…in the wood” along with the conifers, so another connection.

    Most people see little in stanzas #5 and #6 I see MANY, MANY clues in these stanzas…If one is just willing to search for them, and use their imagination. – All, just the thoughts of a confused old man JDA

    • Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this, JDA. I’m definitely intrigued by the path you are heading down in your solve and like how it seems to be organically zeroing in on a very specific spot for you. I hope that if you end up being the finder, you will be one of those who shares your complete solve with all of us in the end.

      Good luck this season! I feel like there’s still a good month or so of waiting for the snows to melt, and it’s surely a test of my patience!

      • Thanks for your well-wishes, and the same to you Blex – HAPPY HUNTING and TRY to STAY SAFE. JDA

  38. It would seem a very good possibility that The Flyer owns the property where Indulgence and the Title to it lay in wait.

    On another note; it’s kind of odd imagining Peggy not being laid to rest by his side in this most dear and special place. ( Close by to their loving family.)

    • SL ~ ‘It would seem a very good possibility that The Flyer owns the property where Indulgence and the Title to it lay in wait.’

      This topic has had a lot of leg stretching over the years… my understanding fenn’s only property is his home / residence. Sold the art gallery, sold the dig site, and up to now, no one has found property in his name. Of course there have been some investigating the possibility of a land trust, but that would need two to be involved if so.

      It’s all speculation at this point… but to think, that a deed of sorts lays in the chest…imo… does one thing, force fits a solve to be on private land only. The other point to the private land issue is, how do you keep that land unknown by family members as well? Cost, deed, trust, written will etc. I dare say searcher have looked into this over the years and notta has been found.

  39. My apologies Jake for my typo….I just saw it. That may be why you are “challenging” me at this level. No problem,. I wanted to apologize and I did.

    As for failing. I expect to fail. I can only improve and go upward and get better afterwards.

    IMO – You’ve judged me to quick. But that is alright too. Be as you want to be, right?

    In regard to what and how I post – it is with really no regard to who is “listening”…..so play it out as you wish, okay? I’ll still come back here and post as I have. And after I know my area is either successful or not…and only then…will you ever know where I have been…got it?

    I’m not any “know-it-all” as you seem to think…just a guy with a knack for cryptic puzzle solving……and those that include treasure hunting, I’m counting myself in.

    You have a bucket list, right? Of course you do. It could be this adventure for all I know.

    Anyhow……I hope you put my error past you and continue to enjoy the blog’s discussion.

    Good luck to you.

    “Be the chest.”

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