The Hidey Space…Part Three


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This is the place to discuss the the space where the chest is hidden. Is it in a cave, a hole in the ground, in a river or creek, behind a waterfall, out in the open? Tell us what you think the resting place for the chest looks like.

650 thoughts on “The Hidey Space…Part Three

  1. In a cave with Indian artifacts, goose feathers, and pine needles on the floor and a ray of sunlight shooting in.

    • IJ … Forrest Fenn has already ruled out caves, I believe. And for good reason. They’re dangerous.

      • Caves and mines are two completely different things. Caves are natural features and mines are man made, Fenn has never ruled out caves, just mines.

          • I wish I listen better.
            Sounds like caves & mines are out.
            I’m going to crawl in mine now.

          • Dal – did you find that in my quotes document or just know that off the top of your head? f has also reportedly told someone to stay out of Grizzly bear caves too… an even more immediate threat of danger. 🙂

          • JCM-
            Are you kidding?
            No way I could recall that or anything else Forrest has said or written without your incredible tool..
            That document is a “must have” for someone who is looking for the chest and has no idea about all the clues and hints Forrest has given us over the years…
            If anyone wants to get one of JCM’s valuable “Chasing Words” tools…look here:

        • Well he ruled out “man made structures” most importantly… thats a big hint

    • oh, stop being such a big worry-wort Ken – i’m safely standing in a cave as we speak, and there’s certainly no evident danger of..

      ..oh wait!? that that an earthquak[-end of transmission-]

  2. It will be one of those great moments…..when you think to yourself….why didn’t I think of that????!!!!!!!

  3. JDA you stated; ”Begin the journey or quest where warm waters halt and take the journey or quest in the canyon down”…(Interp.) The only to take the journey or quest is if YOU (The searcher) make that trip, journey or quest…So yes, to ME the poem DOES say that I have to make that trip.”

    I came back with an interview from fenn;
    Q~ Who else knows where the treasure is buried?
    A~ I never said it was buried. I’ve avoided that word. I hid it. I don’t mean to imply that it isn’t buried. I just didn’t want to give that as a clue. It took me two trips in my car to hide the treasure. And I can tell you an 80-year-old man is not going to make a trip into a canyon, then come up and go down again. As for who else knows, I’m the only one. My wife doesn’t know.

    You came back with; I said you have to take a short hike from the end – I said nothing about going down a canyon – your quote disproves nothing.

    Do you actually read your own postings?
    Wasn’t it you that blogged fenn is secretly sending you messages and using the blog for fair play?
    Yet when an interview is posted from fenn that gives pause and thought about an actual traveling down a canyon.. you say; “your quote disproves nothing”

    Well Bud, it’s not my quote… it was stated by fenn. Maybe ya heard of him… he wrote a book and placed a poem in it and challenged all to decipher the clues that will lead to the desired reward.

  4. Forgive me if this sounds condescending, but do you ever plan to search the Rockies in person for the chest at some point? Just curious.

    • randawg,
      I assume your asking me the question…
      If and when I understand the poem in full, then I’ll make up my mind.
      I’m not the type to put the carriage before the horse..or waste time on hunches and feelings. I would think by now folks would get the sense of what fenn has talked about… nail down the first clue or stay home… In theory, all the clues can be understood prior… certainty beforehand of the path… Many, several, searchers have told fenn where they have been [ correct location ], their process [clues] and yet they didn’t know they had mentioned or indicated the correct clues… even as many the first four clues, and still those folks may not know [ per fenn’s comment ]

      I’m in no hurry… and I certainly don’t need an excuse to go anywhere.

      • A chest full of gold is good enough reason for me. I hope you will eventually fully understand the poem and nail down the first clue. Good luck to you and thank you for your response.

        • I’m glad you mentioned that randawg. It’s not the lure of shiny metals and trinkets or even the value… it’s the challenge itself.
          If that was a chest full of marbles, no one would be here ratchet jawing about the challenge.

          Hook, line and sinker. And that is the reason for being patient. Other’s have created family problems, some spend for than the can or should, some borrow money [because then have none left to search] or mortgage their home just to go search for The Gold.
          Was that really the intent?

          • IMO

            There are a lot of folks who have
            located the first clue and passed right over it.
            ” Shinny things distract even the brightest of minds”
            by : Steven Hawkings .
            But did I need to hear it from him to understand that . NOPE knew it since I was a kid. When I learned how to sell candy in school . Candy was shinny to all who came near my bag of sweets. I knew it and did well in school at lunch . Most want junk instead if the milk and such I was able to buy.
            It just seems to me everyone knows all the answers all the time and anyone who begins don’t. I hate to say this but I disagree with full throttle in this . New eyes are whats needed to find the chest .
            I dint say that Forrest Fenn did .
            But also I find it shocking that a lot of folks don’t even see the stuff for what it is .
            Like do you or all of you agree that
            ” What good are your friends if you cant use them ?” And also You only need to pleaser yourself? If you do then you I think missed the point. The point is I do not use my friends , they would never allow it , And if I only pleased my self then I am selfish .
            According to Forrest Shakespeare
            insinuated to him the fact that ” We are all hear for the pleasure of others , some of us are a bit more blessed , but we all take our turn on the stage of life, and Mr. Fenn chose not to waste his turn .
            Maybe it was the secret he heard when he thought he was going to pass away . What secret you ask ? Watch Indiana Jones . Funny the timing of those movies vs Forrests life.
            In TTOTC Fenn has a preface and important information . He said his life was the exact life of Holden in the Catcher . Well What Catcher ? He didn’t list the book correctly there . And What JD since he was also miss stated in the preface. His name Is J.D. Salinger . Not J.D. – or the way stated in the Preface (JD) with not periods to mark the J.D. …
            Well who can imagine a coincidence like that , well I can . So I did , and mirrored the book to total . He was not kidding about that . Thing is I thought I would write that book , not Forrest .
            I will leave you with this.
            Forrest said ” I have a hold card if I ever want to go back and get it . Well a hold card is a credit card , but even more important is having a hold card means your holden , and Holden is the main person in the Catcher . So , well Fenn said it was time to act. So my op is he is Holden .
            In 2009 J.D. Salinger sewed a man who wanted to write a book as Holden being a 80- year old man . Well Salinger won and the book publication was stopped . It was published in England , or atlas in Europe .
            One more key fact to say .
            The little lady in TTOTC when Fenn was at the book store and as soon as Forrest
            approached the counter she raised her cup. I think I nay be the only one who see’s this but, She was rude! For one
            when a guest approaches you with merchandise you say ” Hi , Iu found everything ok . Which title did you choose? Awesome , may I ask why you chose it? Well my Name is Mike and let me be the first to tell you that was a excellent choice . Is there another book you may want to read and how may I assist you in finding it . I can put a hold on it when it is in stock and I can call you when it is available. Okay , may I have your phone number ? And what was your name ——- Glad to have met you Seeker , I will let you know as soon as It arrives. ======
            That is how you speak to a person approaching your register , not raise your cup to make a old man wait. She walked him to the center of the store , and left him there walked away like she had graduated from some good school . Well people who come from Yale or Harvard
            do not work in book, coffee stores , Soi she making six-buk fifty a hour surely didn’t come from some great school .

            So Do I agree with f
            of course I do . Thats why I wrote this today ., I don’t come on here often , Well I don’t like arguing with folks . I see a lot of people shooting down others at times.
            I would encourage you to please them . Help them in there search , you and I know why all of us are seeking . So please them and help them out. Dont turn away the least of knowledge. Remember it is worth knowing all the things it is not worth knowing .

            Bless you all and keep seeking .
            You will find it.

          • Hi Seeker……just re-reading some old posts and saw yours……

            In many ways I agree with you…..don’t go seeking if you don’t know where to go. Logic tells me not to.

            I also agree, if this was a box of marbles (depends upon the marbles – LOL) that no one would be jawing away. But ’tis not, huh.

            I can truthfully say, I have not spent above my means, my family’s means, or anything like that.

            In fact, I seem to be like you….cautious in my approach, and only willing to take a trip into the unknown if I have something “solid” I can work with.

            You will also notice, I have pretty much stopped posting my thoughts…..because I now think that whatever I say, could lead another to where I intend to go…..and believe me….I just don’t trust anyone anymore…..*winks*… guys are all evil!!

            JUST KIDDING…..sheez!!

            You aren’t evil…..because I am!!


            Anyhow….good luck to you and your endeavor.

  5. When I try to “visualize” where the Trove is located, I feel like I’m inbetween something and space is dark and limited like a tight Cleft of Rocks, or actually in the wood-like in a tree. Feeling that general area surrounded by a gathering or circle of trees, but high enough to have a view of two mountain peaks. From my viewing spot, I’m am looking West, and can see the sun melt deep into the ravine between the two peaks like liquid gold.

  6. I think indulgence is hidden between two rocks with another covering her face. Not buried in the ground but well protected from sight. Should be easy to find after finding the blaze. Waiting for most of the snow to melt and then I’m off to the paradise where she patiently waits.

  7. somewhere north of santa fe in the rocky mountains,somewhere can be anywhere. the rocky mountains are divided into different parts.but they all are still the rocky mountains,and all the forest starts from one end and goes to the other end and vice versa. so forrest hid the treasure in a what is so special about this special place he hid it,in the forest.we don’t know,his dad the book,read the poem many times,looked at map many times,They are tales about his childhood,mom,dad,june,skippy,friends,getting married to peggy jean,vietnam war.he thinks ,is this all there is , people die and another takes their place,then he says we are here to help other people,smile at them ,say hello,etc,at least you know you have done your part in this life to try to make someone happy.he is called mr. lucky,shot down in vietnam two his buddies.struggles,but he does it ,makes a good life for his family,meets all kinds of people,goes on adventures,a warrior needs some space sometime.written books ,did all kinds of stuff,sold san larazso,retired from gallery.still has his publishing company.miracle cure from cancer.he’s been everywhere ,I can keep my secret where, can keep my tale home,keep my tell homekeep my story in my mind.did he fall asleep and have those kind of dreams where you are actually in the dream and living it,and feeling it,and doing those things,talking,hearing,and then you wake up.forrest fenn is huck finn, the enchanted my chest is my heart ,in my heart is my treasure.

  8. I don’t see it buried under dirt. I see it as hidden in an alcove or crevice and perhaps covered with a slab. Just IMHO.

    • i give you title to the “gold…”

      Remember: butterfly and flutterby

      Gold could be hint/clue

      Gold = g o l d = old log

      • Possibly. The last scrapbook 172 certainly points to a steam engine line or something being apart of the poem. I think the poem is pretty straight forward and doesn’t require anagrams but acts more like a riddle. Also fenn seems to have chosen a girl. Could be you. He has stated in mysterious writings that a “she” will be pleased when SHE sees it. Stay positive and keep on keeping on. Good luck to you.

        • Thanks Jsmes for the vote of encouragement!

          I’ve spent at least four hours a day reading, researching and note taking…found I’m not great at keeping track of my notes…trying to be better now. And memory sometimes is fleeting!

          I go in on Tuesday, April 11 for surgery to remove a chunk of my back due to my lucky mole! Melanoma runs in my family on both sides! Lucky me!

          I am considered a “difficult” patient. Not that I do not co-operate, because I do. My body is what gives the Anesthesiologist the problem. I am considered difficult to intubate. My trechia is anatomically incorrect. Too high and too anterior. Took 2 1/2 hours to intubate two years ago. Guess things got ugly. Glad I don’t remember any of it. However, because of this, I am opting to do surgery with local anesthesia for the 2 1/2″x2″x 1cm deep tissue removal. I’m trying to be BRAVE! Hope things go smoothly and that they do not have to change to general sedation.

          I am boxing all my notes that fill a 1 1/2″ notebook, 2 large very new Recreational maps of the two states I had originally narrowed it down to due to the pinyon nuts, and Fenns two books, TTOTC and TFTW just in case something crazy happens so these can be sent to my brother who I hope will become as interested in the Thrill Of The Chase as I have been!

          Hoping to be back into the Chase Wednesday April 12!

          Talk with y’all then!

          I am a problem patient. Not that I’m not good or cooperative, but

          • I hope all goes well Sheryl Lynn…. my prayers are with ya…. see ya back on Tuesday … have a great day… until next time… see ya

          • Sheryl, I didn’t see your message until
            7/30/17. I hope your surgery went well.
            And good luck in your solving and
            searching for Fenn’s trove. IMO.

        • luck on tuesday Sheryl

          i once had surgery under local anaesthetic and assumed that i’d be weirded-out by the whole thing, but it was actually surprisingly quick and easy

          you’ll be fine 🙂

  9. To me the hidey space is located where the “no paddle up your creek” creek disappears in the vacinity of the blaze. The creek shows itself above the blaze about 50′ then again below the blaze about 100′. So after trying to figure the blaze (I have three options) and now I believe I have the right option (Forrest gave that hint in the beginning of his postings on HOD) I believe his trove is hidden under a rock formation that he created in that area where the creek disappears. The reason is, in this area the creek had washed out all the sand and loose particules from around the rocks in it’s once creek bed, and now the creek flows under these rocks. So what better way to disguise the trove location so that any passer by following the animal trail would not notice ” indulgence” location, only someone familiar with the chase and what the blaze could be would notice the unusual rock formation stacked below the blaze amongst the other rocks. To me this is why Forrest doesn’t expect anyone to find it in a afternoon because if you don’t understand the correct blaze (again there are three that fit it’s profile) you will be there awhile looking around and below those possibilities. Of course this is just my idea but it might be some good food for thought. Only time will tell and I believe I have plenty of it as long as I don’t “get hit by a train” LOL. Good luck everyone Bur

    • Dave I think that ff has repeatedly stated that he has not been back and that he wouldn’t go back because someone might follow him. That doesn’t mean that it is or isn’t close to his home (8.25 is close in my book). IMO of course.

      • Jim & digit one,
        There are many that like this area & I think we are right.
        I will go further & say it may be in Madison County.

        • I doubt it’s in Montana. He said he hid it in one afternoon. Its possible he made a special trip up there and then hid it in one afternoon. Basically you are saying that you live in Montana and have provided a solution that is close to your home. It reminds me of a story after I came out as transgender. I decided to tell this gentle man I was seeing and he pretended to accept it. When push came to shove he decided he didn’t like me though he tried to force it in his mind that he did. Either way I could be wrong. Stay positive and keep on doing it right. Peace my friend

          • If memory serves me correctly, F said he hid it in a day, wife didn’t know, and read that he hid it during a trip/Visit to Cody, WY.

            Don’t ask me for notes… didn’t keep good ones to go back to…

          • Sheryl;

            Seems as though your memory is fading a bit. Forrest DID say that he hid it in one afternoon. The rest of your post, not so sure about. He MAY have said that his wife did not know, but not at the same time he said he hid it in one afternoon. I do not believe that he EVER said anything about a trip to Cody – or anywhere else. If he had, ALL searchers would be searching Wyoming. The states population would then double. JDA

          • JDA I’m not trying to be misleading.

            I read somewhere…note taking has been horrible I am finding…He had to go to Cody fo do something with managing?the BBC Museum.

            This is something that I’ve been trying to wrap my brain around-F placing TC during a trip to Cody as been one that has worried/concerned me and stuck in my craw, as I had my #1 spot in NM.

            How did he do it during trip to Cody?

            Figuring his wife, Peggy didn’t know, when he did this:

            1: Peggy must not have seen him pack his trove and leave home to do this, nor was she with him. If he did this before they left for trip, why begin a road trip at night after a busy day?

            2. Certainly if she was with him he couldn’t stop on side of road and say, “Give me a few minutes here sweetpea” and come back again and repeat.

            3. Then figuring Peggy went with him on trip to Cody, she must not have seen what he packed for the trip here either. And what was she doing during the time he disappears to do the deed?

            I am learning to keep better notes and write reference in margins of my notes.

            I’ve tried going back to read things in my history on my phone many times.

          • He never said Cody. Several searchers surmised that would be an easy way to sneak away.. But think about this. The Fenn’s regularly took trips apart from each other. Forrest to visit his father, and Peggy to visit her family. Forrest has family in Montana. It wouldn’t be much for him to drive to Montana to see his family (when his wife was elsewhere), and take half a day detour, or to go out on his own for half a day. Also, he never said he did it in half a day, or in a day. He mentioned that he had made two trips (presumably from his car) to the hidey space in one afternoon. If he drove to Montana, made several detours, checked out some of his favorite places, visited family, deposited the treasure, and drove back… I guess you could say it took him a week or more to hide it. All IMO of course, but don’t let his comments lead you to false assumptions to discount anywhere he hasn’t ruled out.

          • If I find the statement I seem to be remembing, I will post with link to it. Sorry for any confusion I may have caused.

          • James,
            I really don’t care what your orientation or sex is.
            What matters most to me is what kind of person you are & how you treat others.
            Compassion is my key word.

  10. the chest of the poem is at an archaeological digsite that will last a thousand years, indoors.

  11. I think it is under a big wooden W.

    The meadowlark are singing, the smell of onions are in the air and calves are hitting the ground so I can’t search for at least a month.

    Hope to stop by the Guadalupe Cafe on my way to have a turkey sandwich on sour dough with jalapeño cheese soup.

    • That’s interesting Michael. On my last trip to NM I found a Medicine Wheel configuration of stones, not in close proximity to a trail. Based on how deep the rocks had sunken into the surface soil, I thought it was maybe 15-20 years old, perhaps older. I may go take another look at that.

          • To go in peace, (Urban Dictionary) could mean:

            “to leave without harm or harming”

            “to leave with the spirit of God”

            “To egret with safety and peace of mind”

            Catholic saying (Loyola says to go in peace “is an incredible challenge”

    • FF has told us that it wouldn’t be feasible (feasable?) to
      remove the blaze. IMO.

  12. General area or exact coordinate???
    Forrest has encouraged us, for obvious and safety reasons, not to venture out into the mountains during the winter with snow still on the ground. But he has also stated, “If you know precisely where it is you can probably retrieve it in any weather.”
    So, with that, how could someone retrieve it during the winter if they believed it is in a stream? Wouldn’t it be frozen in ice? And even if it was there, they would have to have an EXACT coordinate unless they wanted to attempt breaking up a large amount of ice on that stream.
    And the same holds true if someone believes it is located in a general area such as in a meadow or somewhere around a lake. How could you retrieve it at any of those locations if it is covered by a couple feet of snow?
    “If you know precisely where it is you can probably retrieve it in any weather.”
    And from Forrest’s own website: ” If you are searching for Forrest’s treasure please stay safe, take adequate supplies and a GPS.”
    Why bring a GPS if not for pinpointing the EXACT spot? For safety reasons? Yes, I’m sure. But I believe it is to serve another purpose than just that.
    All IMO.
    Good luck all.

    • A lot of people searching are city folks or folks who have never learned to mark or blaze a trail on their way in – in order to find their way on their way back out to their car ..

      In heavily wooded or unfamiliar terrain – especially if the sun is hidden behind clouds or the terrain is bland and uniform and kind of looks the same in all directions – it is very easy to get turned a wrong direction without realizing it — and get lost .. unless you have a specific point of reference that you aim for, and keep in sight of, most people wander left or right and end up walking 15 or 30 or even 45 degrees off-course without even knowing it ..

      When I hike in new territory and there isn’t a clear trail scratched in the ground, I stop every few hundred feet and establish visual clues that allow me to see not the only the visual markers where I just left from .. my car, a large rock, a pond, a unique tree .. but also a visual marker toward where I want to go .. kind of like connect the dots — if there aren’t any that stick out, I leave a cairn of rocks or a stack of sticks that I can easily find and usually with a direction pointer – just in case I can’t see my previous marker for some reason .. and in 35 years of hiking I’ve only gotten truly lost once, which took me about an Hour to figure where I made my mistake ..

      Most people probably don’t know how to leave a trail marker or take the time to think of doing it as they walk along and so a GPS Marker at their car, saved on their GPS Machine before they leave, is probably the best chance not to get lost ..

      And if you think you can’t get lost on a marked trail – I’ve rescued several people on heavily trafficked, clearly marked “easy” trails who got turned around, started hiking the wrong direction, got confused, couldn’t figure out the signs, ran out of water, or were just too much out of energy to walk another foot — and couldn’t get back to their car ..

      Take your time. Look around. Relax. Hydrate often. Memorize unique articles of Nature that stand out and that you’ll Recognize Later. Leave Markers if you have to. Keep your spatial orientation in check. Always know the way back — even of you have to stop and backtrack the way you just came in order to get your orientation confirmed .. Always. Always. Always. Keep a Spider’s Thread tied to your car’s bumper – metaphorically of course ..


      • Great tips Brad.

        I, very city bred, suggest yellow or orange plastic strips that can be tied to low tree branches or bushes – at eye level…..for some easier movements off the main trail.

    • He has also said “If you had it’s coordinates, you would be able to find the treasure”.
      So, we must be looking for it’s coordinates. Which means numbers in the poem, which means number system.

      • No it doesn’t.

        You are “guessing” that there is…..without any evidence…it is just speculation and you will have to work through a solve…..with “coordinates”.

        I don’t think that information is embedded….although it could be…..I just don’t see it occurring..

        Good luck!

        • why else would he say that? Why did he pick that one spot, and not 50′ away? What will stand the test of time? What will be around 100, 1000 years from now? Coordinates. So, yes it does. It’s not a guess if he has mentioned it. If he never stated that FACT, then me saying coordinates would be a guess. That is not the case. Hopefully you have one solve that has coordinates, if not, I hope you have at least a great vacation.

          • “why else would he say that?”

            Various reasons.

            – to through the searchers off – Fennology
            – a road could be 200 feet away fromthe spot, and not one of us would ever know that the chest was there….as we drove past it “within 200 ft.”….OR….drove past it “within 500 ft.”

            “What will stand the test of time?” / “What will be around 100, 1000 years from now?”
            – Mother Earth
            – a road will always be a road, once it was made… could also become overgrown with foliage to block the details it was a road.
            – The Mayan culture in Mexico and Central America existed many thousands of years ago….and their roads have been uncovered.

            “It’s not a guess if he has mentioned it.”
            – It hasn’t been determined that it is not a guess. And just because he said it, do you have something that FF stated that verifies it is not a guess? Or are you just “guessing” too?

            “If he never stated that FACT, then me saying coordinates would be a guess. ”
            – He did state that one does not need a cipher. It appears that you are looking for a cipher. SO IMO – you are trying to force fit the clues into a cipher.

            “Hopefully you have one solve that has coordinates,”
            – I don’t.
            – Yup – it will be a great vacation…thank you for your encouragement.

            Good luck to you.

          • He has also said that it would be harder to find in 1,000 years because geography changes. If that’s the case, then coordinates ARE NOT important.

            “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.” f

        • Hi Tim ,

          Tim =)
          Hope to touch some base with you on this one .
          In TFTW last page is the map . In which he cut off the other States in clouded in the Chase before. But more importantly Mr. Fenn quoted:
          ” I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand , but sure for the one who did.”

          SO , Directly Sure for the one’s path with certainty of the location beforehand =)
          Just throwing that out there.

          Ps. Mr. Fenn quoted
          “A dare went out to everyone who possessed a sense of wanderlust ; study the clues in the book and thread a tract through the wiles of nature and circumstances the treasure”

          Just some quotes raining bells in my mind is all .

          • @ Mr.D and Heather
            Hey “D & H” How goes the search? :o) Hopefully forward with a bunch of smiles!


            “Hope to touch some base with you on this one .:
            – Lay it on me friend….

            “In TFTW last page is the map . In which he cut off the other States in clouded in the Chase before. But more importantly Mr. Fenn quoted:
            ” I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand , but sure for the one who did.””
            – I don’t own TFTW – so I am not sure what it says, but I do believe FF has said a similar statement in the past. My not be the exact words above, but similar meaning.
            – IMO – I have checks and balances throughout my solve. I think I can move with confidence this time. Is that bragging? No, it is trying to be very positive in my thinking. :o) I can always accept failure… that isn’t a problem with me…..but to accept a loss of $1000.00….that may be more of an impact, even if it was a fun time. Is $1000.00 worth enough fun to go and find a hidden treasure chest? SURE IS !! :oP

            So in honesty – I hear ya very good.

            Am I confident enough to make the next move? Yes.

            Is my wife on board? Yeah, I think she is, but she is always supportive of me as I am of her.

            Do I have a date set to go and look? Yep….just decided upon it today…..I will forego a trip to San Diego’s International Comic-Con 2017 (tix go on sale 04/08/17 @ 8am if you are registered already) this year in July to go do a search in June.

            Will I be successful? This time, with three main clues I think I deciphered correctly, yeah….let me end this misery for everyone.

            Will I come back with “my tail between my legs”? I’m not too proud to own my fail….and will respond accordingly…..eating crow if need be….*smiles*…

            “Be the chest and keep it unsophisticated.” – Tim

            GL “D&H” – thanks for the post.

      • Charlie,
        I’m going out on a limb here and say the comment is rhetorical.

        The same as if you knew exactly where it is a metal detector will help, or if you know exactly where it is you can retrieve it in any weather. Every location has coordinates…So if you “knew”…

        • “Rhetorical”….that was the word I was looking for.

          Fen says many things that are so vague, yet true….”coordinates” is a great example.

          Anywhere you travel in the world has coordinates.

          One needs to know that the limitations that Fenn puts upon us, are not limitations at all……it is just his way of saying something to keep the chase active and fun for himself……well….of course it will be this way, until he dies.

          Then we won’t be hearing anymore from FF at all.

          Sure – take his words and fiddle around with them….just “don’t mess with my poem”…..we already know there is a treasure waiting at the end of one thing he said.

          • rhetorical I can see if he says it that way. But, he never said rhetorically speaking. He said coordinates. If he said rhetorically speaking, well duh, of course one could go there if they had the coordinates. So, how do we get the coordinates? Has nothing to do with codes and cyphers Tim. I think you should read that comment carefully. Would you be happy with a positive solve? I would. But, I’m not saying that. Just like little Indy can’t get past the 3rd clue, just like the first clue may have something to do with being “nailed down”, just like if we had the coordinates. If we just pick and choose what to credit or discredit, then that is guessing. All I’m saying is that it is best to not discredit what he says, however you interpret it. Since he said something about having coordinates and finding the chest in the same sentence, wouldn’t it be wise to not discredit coordinates. If you do, then a nice vacation is in your future, but possibly not the chest. He said it, best if you found out a possible reason why. If you don’t see it, or you don’t have a solve with coordinates, wouldn’t it be wise to have one.
            Tim, you can’t position your point by saying It’s a guess and then “throw” your guesses back.
            Fact, he said it. Could be rhetorical, so I can get with what Seeker has added, but it also could not be. So, all I’m saying is to cover your bases. No guessing, no defining what I think, just noting that it be best to have both sides instead of one. It’s hard to be confident without coordinates, but possible. Hard to be confident without numbers somewhere.

          • Let’s summarize your post….
            “Hard to be confident without numbers somewhere.”

            Not entirely true.

            I achieved a solve without numbers, and instead I used natural geology, geography, and history, in order to come to a result.

            I also have “coordinates” of a spot, but did not come from analyzing the poem of some numeric feature, but through following clues on the poem.

            Although I remember reading someone’s post that they found the number “44” hidden in the poem somewhere. Peculiar and interesting as it sounds, I think the poster also mentioned that YNP lies on that latitude.

            You may want to talk with that guy if you think your theory is valid.

            So you may be onto something, but I’m just not in that camp.

          • Charlie,
            I still don’t dismiss the possibility of coordinates. What I don’t think is, they involve the exact location of the chest… It might be more toward knowing where to begin, line of thinking.

            You might say, well seeker folks have been there, right? Ok, but whatif that coordinate location needs to be known for something else later in the poem?
            [you might recall my one theory]

            fenn has also said;
            “I’ve said things people think are clues.”
            My point, how many solves have you heard revolving around a flash light and a sandwich, and recently Dal posted a Q&A with an interviewer and fenn stated they are certainty not clues.
            Or the metal detector comment vs, the no tools comment. Or hints in the “text” of the book.
            Do we really think gloves will “solve” the poem as some have suggested?

            It’s not so much “picking and choosing” and more toward common sense…
            “…I am determined to stay aloof of providing any additional clues that are useful. Everyone has the same information to work with.”
            Remember the useless clues debate…

            My take is “the same information” to mean from the very start… we need to step lightly on the after the fact as to how useful they could or could not be to solving the poem vs. useful to help make us think.

            Just my thoughts.

          • Seeker, I hear what you’re saying. It is just very hard to discount or not put too much weight into his after comments when you have so many of them in common with a solve. That goes for everyone, me included. I use to think all I needed was the poem, but those after comments sure do bring up one’s confidence.
            You are right though, they are comments after the fact and no matter their importance, they are outside the poem. I’ll yield to that thought. do they help one solve the poem? I don’t think so. Do they offer anything? Well yes. Your Idea a while back proves that. At least to me and the way I see the poem. To think you may have found a somewhat map to the bells is big considering, and if it pans out. Again, the way I see the whole big picture. If I was to bring up a bell, that’s huge in determining how f approaches things. So, along those lines, I have to consider all he has said after the fact. I don’t go with all, but some things need to be answered. The first clue, place that is “dear”, bighorn ring a bell, and coordinates, put in the category of why a flutterby is a butterfly.
            I know you have a coordinate solve, it’s just smart. My initial thought on it was to not discount that. For someone to just discount it or can’t see it, well I’m sorry, and like we have said before, there may just be more ways to solve this puzzle. To just up and say, “it’s not there, foolish, don’t see it”, is just someone stuck on one thought. And, I just hope they have a fun vacation…:)

          • Well shoot, if I knew the coordinates for Madison Junction Campground I could just go right to it, but I do know, if you start from Old Faithful and travel 191 to the North-Northwest, then below firehole falls, follow the river in the canyon down to where the Firehole merges with the gibbon… Then you could cross the Gibbon and get to the Madison Campground.

            (IMO) “Coordinates” is not a clue… Obviously if you know precisely within 3 meters GPS accuracy where something is, you could go right to it and get it. That doesn’t mean hes done anything to tell you what those coordinates were/

          • Very much so Sheryl. But if I’m right, its the pine sap you’re smelling. There’s nothing quite like being in a nice shaded pine forest in the middle of the hot summer 😛

    • FF said “weather”, not “season”. Look them both up in the
      dictionary. I could be hiking on ground with no snow on it.
      If it starts to snow, and I’m 50 feet from my destination, I’m
      not likely to turn back because of that WEATHER.

      If I’m hiking on a sunny day, through snow that is 2 feet deep, I won’t find the TC at that time.

      FF has said that he hid the TC during the summer. I
      suggest you restrict your BOTG searching to the months
      of May through October of any given year. You should
      also, before starting your search hike, learn the weather
      forecast for that day. And before hiking, look at the sky.
      I aborted a search hike when snow started falling on me.
      I don’t want you to get stranded in the mountains under
      unfavorable weather conditions. Even rain could make
      your hike difficult or impossible. And the rain could be
      long gone, leaving mud. I encountered this also, and it
      was miserable hiking through it.

      The above is my opinion. Yours may differ.

  13. And while everyone is looking under the rocks, ledges, cliffs and all, don’t forget to look under the juniper (evergreen) bushes–“Brave and in the wood”. TFTW, first chapter, Toys are Forever. Watch out for all the scary things in there!! No one walking by would see it. So get down to a kids view and look.


  14. In time every inch of the earth’s surface is buried by dust, debris, and ash that is why IMO f said I did not want to give that as a clue, but JUST FOR THE RECORD, IT’S A HINT! ff has even mentioned, and I paraphrase; with the passage of time, the chest will become harder to find, that is how the study of fossils, archaeology, anthropology, and history in general works.

    I hoped, after I wrote “Winter Thoughts” on this site, that some genius would break the layer’s of code ff subliminally incorporated in his poem, but if these comments I read are any indication of our collective intellect, we (all) have a long way to go! Just sayin? Maybe no one is right and everybody is a little bit, but tellin some they are wrong does not get the best from our thoughts so where are the Einstein’s, Salk’s and who will break on through to the other side? We can do better…

    Tom Terrific as in Enthusiastic!

    • Hey Tom…nice dissertation on what a genius isn’t. There are quite a few very clever folks here having themselves a grand time with Fenn’s poem…I do not believe it will be a genius that finds the treasure. Just sayin’

      • It will be a genius that finds the treasure because the Chase is an intelligence test. Fenn has hints in his books to that effect. It’s subliminal, but it’s there. My opinion.

      • Who is a genius? A farmer who understands the nature of things and knows how to produce sustenance for a billion people. Or is it the scientist who creates the means to kill a billion people? I think the redneck farmer is the real genius.

        • It will only require logical thinking, hard work and a little imagination to find the treasure. However, if you want to be the first one to arrive, being a genius wouldn’t hurt you any. Someone with proven creative problem solving skills and persistent determination will have a huge advantage. My opinion.

        • I agree Alsetenash, my father is a police officer & a farmer. I believe country folks have an advantage here. When you grow up on a farm you learn to figure out problems without much help, common sense is very helpful then. I’m a dielectric, high school dropout & believe I have a better chance than most. IMO

          • Well, I don’t know what’s a better chance. Whom ever rises to the top can claim the cream and whip up some butter. However, I don’t think it will be found by any chance of any scale .IMO .

    • Come on Tom, you writing that was suppose to help us solve the poem? Maybe we, the troglodytes of this forum, have solved way before your write up. Think you’re missing posts now and then. Already went over sediment, debris, dead vegetation, etc… Why he can’t say buried.
      So glad I’m not smart, would never have a chance at solving this thing.

    • Tom T…
      so where are the Einstein’s…

      I thought Mr f said unemployed redneck…? 🙂

  15. The best place to hide anything is out in the open…..

    – chest is “covered” but not buried and the outer “cover” helps protect the chest from some water contact……but not all.

    • I agree…bout 200 feet from a trail/river bank. Winter time covered in snow…summer time it will be wet from the winter run off…muddy and bugs galore. The average person will not want to walk in this enviroment so therefore they will stay on trail. Best time to search an area like this would be in late August/September when the ground is drier and the bugs are gone.

      Of course…JMO

    • Hi Bob,
      Check out the discussion thread specifically talking about Brown’s Canyon. I believe that there were at least a couple of searchers discussing that area there.

    • Hi Bob ,

      My Thoughts , I have herd that before form many searchers as well as Browns Canyon .
      But here is a different sight in that . General Terry U.S> Calvary . I think you will find this a awesome study and read . I f you like the old west and the history as I do . This will be neat fro you . Enjoy . Let me know what you think about it .

  16. Did he not bury his jars 3 and 4 feet deep the treasure is the same. I think he hide it where he knows no one will ever find it ever

  17. I believe that it is in a wood-line, facing away from any human natural lines of drift, just at the base of a tree.

  18. Subscribe. Just trying to stay abreast of some of the discussions here at Dal’s place.

  19. According to Forrest:
    “I never said I buried it.”
    and again:
    “I never said I didn’t bury it.”
    Therefore, it’s like a glass half empty… or is that half full?

        • If someone poured the glass half way…then it is half full.
          If someone filled the glass completely and then drank half of it…then it is half empty.

      • ” I ‘m a glass half full
        A mist of air to fill
        Worthy of said such a place
        At the fountain of knowledge I await .
        pick me up and fill my cup
        With the wisdom of knowledges age.”
        By Mr. D
        Glass Half -full courtesy of Google.
        “Is the glass half empty or half full?” is a common expression, a proverbial phrase, generally used rhetorically to indicate that a particular situation could be a cause for optimism (half full) or pessimism (half empty), or as a general litmus test to simply determine an individual’s worldview.

        World views speak a lot …
        Air is another interesting
        word …

        the invisible gaseous substance surrounding the earth, a mixture mainly of oxygen and nitrogen.
        an impression of a quality or manner given by someone or something.
        “she answered with a faint air of boredom”
        synonyms: expression, appearance, look, impression, aspect, aura, mien, countenance, manner, bearing, tone
        “an air of defiance”

        Middle English (in sense 1 of the noun): from Old French air, from Latin aer, from Greek aēr, denoting the gas. Sense 2 of the noun is from French air, probably from Old French aire ‘site, disposition,’ from Latin ager, agr- ‘field’ (influenced by sense 1). Sense 3 of the noun comes from Italian aria (see aria).a·ri·a
        noun: aria; plural noun: arias
        a long, accompanied song for a solo voice, typically one in an opera or oratorio.

        THANK YOU –
        The beautiful opera of life in which you have described is music to my ears.

        Knowledge is knowing the things not worthy of knowing. Like :

        As far as Fenn … January 27th 2010
        Fenn was at home
        January 28th 2010
        Fenn was at Boarders Book Store in Santa Fe –
        He Bought Catcher there.
        ” I was 79 or 80 when I hid the chest ”
        page 129 ttotc –
        ” He also thought it might have once held a book of Days ”
        Thats funny Forrest ;
        I know in 1150 A.d. that book is called a Book of Hours, but I am certain there was not a book of days in use then .
        Can or is it possible to locate the actual chest in it’s concealment and how will you see the difference between the two , Well there must be a way . There is barely any data on that object . The Chest I mean . And I think I have a way to find the data .
        Forrest found a horse shoe with a carrot top nail in it. The video is on The Old Santa Fe Trading Company web site of Forrest’s.
        He describes how he had to figure out why the nail was there and how dead as a door nail was a common understanding about howrses in those days . Besides they were like cleats on a foot ball player . And they could run faster in the terrain . At least thats what I learn of it. He also tells you the measurements of it when he paid someone to show him how to do it .
        Any ways just a different look at this I suppose . I like straight toward.
        So when he read Kismet , Bell Tolls ,
        and Catcher , I found a lot of warmth in knowing and seeing which is which that he said was like his life. SO I imagine that and did such a study , The measure is exactly as he describes , Accurate in every way .
        So now to do the same . With the poem .
        I like the poem a lot . The words I mean .
        Eight sentences with One question making of course nine total . I just see things different I guess .
        Take care all …
        Keep on seeking and may your travels be full of treasures.

    • If that glass was out in the forest, it may be buried by now. He hid the chest, it could be buried by the time someone finds it.

  20. Begin it

    Well what’s he mean anyway ?
    Begin what ? Do you know? DO you think you know?
    I love this stanza

    Yes these are my opinions based on real facts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Like this one , would it interest you to know the last time Forrest Fenn was in Yellow Stone park ? I know !!!!!!!!!!
    Not a rumor , I have first hand data ( Forrest’s autograph with date ) on his sign in sheet . As well as eye witness account of that day .
    Matter a fact there are pictures of him there . I wont tell ……..
    You can find the data with out a computer . All the information needed is in the poem . I would say when the words lose their meaning you see more.
    Most would say whats he mean ….. Well in the upper- stratosphere of knowledge and writing . Words to see them , you must learn to make them neutral . Only then can logic take seed . Hey but what do I know . All this
    junk makes me look smart . I didn’t pass ninth grade . Barely could read when I started his chase . Since I went to college and had a 4.0 gpa!!!!!!!!!! What me!!!!! No way I was stuck in the back of my third grade class in a box around me , made fun of By Mrs. Lee cause I couldn’t read . She also called me Tuna
    well my least name is D’antuono , which means of the blood of Saint Antiono
    whom a family member came along th e Coronado trail . His name was Miguell Antonio. Hey thats my name ……

    This information is by chance ;

    Michael = Miguel
    D’Antuono = of the blood line of . Our name was changed for english speaking people when my family came here .
    My dads real name cause he was adopted was Wilbert OrnDorff.
    Which means Shinning Eagle on a hill . This name is interesting to me in a lot of ways . It also means Adler- look up Adler Tree; pinyon and of Wolf berry .
    Bringing into play Jan 1st. Look it up and look up names day . Look up Book of Hours not book of days . You will find the beginning of this trail there .
    The name of his wife family comes from . Neat enough that river around the area to link the two is Deleon River. This is also a place in Texas where Comanche Indians come from . Remember his grand ma chasing them out of her barn .
    That river would lead the two families together in past history , Fenn lives up to his name . To the fullest of his potential . And is a honor to know Mr. Fenn and to call him a true friend . I think he would completely agree with the last comment .
    These as all are opinions and you may comment all you would like . The information is there for all to see. I have learned so much that is is a treasure to have gone down the roads I have to get the data, I have traveled from Montana to New Mexico seeking the chest. But what I found was more then that . I found a education beyond anything I would have dreamed of.
    I call this RYE School ….. Thanks you Mr. Fenn for enrolling me and taking me as a student . All though I would agree the trap you set has my leg , and at times I feel as knawing my leg off to get out of it . My weight of information is well worth the cold. ” Silence in history :”
    Or may be in the wood is just meaning a writer ., Well of you are in the lead your a gun slinger.
    Enjoy have fun take care all , and for all purposes please each other . God has always intended that .

    My new and old is a dating systems .
    Look it up Ns and Os dating . This is how we date objects and all .
    Also means higher to lower liked the word ” Canyon “, or could be North and South .
    Dont ask how I know I wont tell ya.
    I would rather tell you to read that poem over and overt.
    Why do I speak the way I am . I am convinced I can read the first stanza and I
    can see it through the entire poem .

    Any way just new looks , don’t mean I proceed them .

    • Is it possible that You have to use all the clues to find each clue individually? as well as collectively? Does that make any sense?

  21. It’s in a petrified hollowed log that is a hundred million years old. And it will most likely stay in the log for another hundred million years.

  22. “I am convinced I can read the first stanza and I can see it through the entire poem”

    That’s exactly the way f intended it to be.

    • Please remember that This is only my opinion based on collected facts Through travel and hands on questions of folks Mr. Fenn knew.. and places he went . I cannot disclose who these people are at this time. Nor all the places I have collected data. I have had to ask permission of some to just read certain documents and letters . Only to bring to light in my mind who Mr. Forrest Fenn was . And he is everything he has brought to light. And then some . I think reading between the lines is a better way to understand him .
      I may in the future release the references used but it is not likely. I am using it to write a book of how Forrest’s book inspired me when I was undergoing surgery on my neck . With the possibility of never walking again . I spent 76 weeks in a chair where by 53 of those I could not feel anything . The chase let m in my mind still have the chance to provide a life to my family of five sons . So this was my escape from that God forsaken chair.
      The information cost me x-amout of dollars and time to collect . SO I wont just hand it out to every one . Please forgive me for that . It is not my intention to misdirect the Chase at all , but only in my intention to push you against your will . As I have been by Mr. Fenn .

      To address your comment now: Thats the way f intended it….
      Yes but why do you think that? I know why I said it.
      I only ask because ;
      The poem changes directions. It is not intended for the first stanza to be seen all the way through only it’s logic . It is a metaphysical switch back if you will in logic. If you rode a bike that you had to operate back wards it would take time to learn to ride a bike again . Then to ride it correctly again you would have to re learn it all over . I said it that way
      so not to describe my logic . We are going form point a to b and not the way we would go normally , and thats about all I have to say about it . But one the thing is ;
      I don’t see it through I meld it .
      Example of Meld:
      Maybe Heavy Loads and Water High really means
      Mother Earth and Father Sky.
      Just putting some basic things together is all .
      Page 6 ttotc
      “Well Im almost eighty and I think that’s so funny .”
      Oh , I don’t mean it’s funny because Im almost eighty , but it’s funny because I said it that way. I could have just said I was seventy-nine.”

      “Well Im almost eighty and I think that’s so funny .”
      Oh , I don’t mean Im almost eighty and I think thats so funny
      funny because Im almost eighty , but I’m almost eighty and I think thats so funny funny because I said it that way . I could have just said I was seventy nine .


  23. At the base of a tree maybe but otherwise uncovered except by snow in the wild open randomness (not random to anyone who knows the correct interpretation of the poem) of forrest some two hundred feet from a well traveled trail.

      • I meant did f say they were near the treasure , or near the chest ? I dint know they were the same .. ?

  24. I really enjoy reading all these comments. I am hoping to go on my first Thrill Chase in June.

    • welcome to the mad-house RP – best of luck with your June adventure 🙂

  25. FF has said that if he was standing where the TC is, that he would see
    (among other things) animals.

    Here’s my explanation of how he likes to “stretch” or “embellish”:

    I could stand on a street corner in New York City and “see animals” . . . if
    I stood there long enough. Maybe one dog in a month, and maybe one cat
    in a year.

    So don’t expect, necessarily, to see a high density of animals during your
    search hike. I think FF’s mention of animals wasn’t much help at all. And where can you stand in the Rocky Mountains and not see trees? That
    part isn’t much help either, in my opinion.

    The part about sage — or sagebrush — may have been helpful, to a small
    degree. I don’t know where the boundaries are regarding where sage

    Searchers have commented on FF’s desire to throw himself onto the TC
    to be found there much later. But if nothing else, he knows about animals.
    If he didn’t want his bones (and the rest of his dead body) to be dragged
    away from the TC, he may have put it in a (kind of) small enclosed place.

    I believe he has told us that the TC is not in a mine or cave. So what kind
    of enclosed place could he mean? I suppose that a hollow log could
    qualify, and folks have mentioned that maybe a hollow log could be
    petrified. I don’t know about that.

    I envision, perhaps, a space between two large boulders, where he could
    crawl in — but if he could do this, could a bear or mountain lion not also
    go in there and drag his body out?

    I think he was being dramatic about throwing his body onto the TC. I
    believe it’s relatively accessible by (say) a ten-year-old child. I also
    think the TC is (kind of) “out in the open”. That means not buried by FF underground . . . or even covered (by him) in dirt — although the natural
    forces of wind and rain may have caused a little bit of dirt to accumulate
    on or around the TC in the last 6 or 7 years. I will be looking for the TC
    to be totally “out in the open”, but I will also be looking to find it perhaps
    surrounded by rocks, or even covered by a rock or rocks.

    Folks have mentioned that “the blaze” may relate to a campfire . . . maybe
    a ring of rocks. If FF put a ring of rocks around the TC, then maybe this
    association with the word “blaze” would work. My opinion, though, is that
    “the blaze” is NOT a ring of rocks.

    I’ll be searching in a (smallish) group of trees — “the wood”.

    The above is my opinion. Yours may differ. Please be safe in the Rockies.

  26. Does it seem like there are more people than usual saying they know exactly where the treasure is?

    For me, I’m missing the hidey space details. I’ve had BOG 4 times and every search has been to the same general area. I recently realized that I stopped after the 5th clue, and then started looking for places that I would hide a chest – and I failed to decode the rest of the clues to see where FORREST would hide a chest. If I don’t find it on trip #5, then it’s back to the drawing board with a new WWWH. But like everyone else, I just don’t think I’m wrong… Good Luck to Everyone!

  27. There are 4 open ended poem lines. He didnt use a period or comma because open ended questions or poem line are those that require more thought. They ask the respondent to think and reflect. They hand control of the conversation to the respondant. An open ended poem is simply a poem that has an ending that is open for interpretation. For example: “if your brave and in the wood” ask yourself how do you get in the wood? Well to get inside there would have to be a fissure or crack to get inside the wood. You see it’s open for interpretation and requires more thought. That is just an example. I know what he is discribing and im not ready to tell.

    1. As i have gone alone in there
    2. Begin it where warm waters halt
    3. So why is it that I must go
    4. If you are brave and in the wood

  28. Markings on horses usually are distinctive white areas on an otherwise dark base coat color. From the artist perspective the blaze marking on a horses face is a perfect painting of what a small waterfall would look like if you were to paint it. We see the world the way we are not the way it really is. Look at the poem not the way you are but the way Fenn sees it. He has panited a beautiful picture that matchs way points and the words match topography. Some words in the poem have double meanings that require more thought.

    Not ready to tell!

    • Your question prompted me to look up an interesting article about them:

      It’s laced with conspiracy theory, which I don’t care much about, but does include some good images of the murals (If these are the ones you are referring to).

      Personally, although there are some interesting mountain landscape images included in these murals, I don’t believe that they have anything to do with the Chase. Just my opinion.

      • I think it does a little. It’s an airport and portal to the Rocky Mountains. I go through it almost every time I am on the hunt. It’s a cheap flight too.

        • If you have a layover at DIA this season Iceman, The New Belgium Hub is my personal favorite eating location there!

      • I agree, the conspiracies are just annoying. But the murals have a large blase. A turtle and a whale splashing about reminiscent of wwwh. A home of brown. The title is in peace and harmony with nature. That or the poem is a riddle that has to do with the cumbres and toltec railroad or steam engines maybe.

        • While I usually love art, I did not enjoy the emotional feelings and sense of harm and destruction displayed here. IMO it has nothing to do with The Chase.

          • The murals are about humanity coming together and creating peace on earth after some of the terrible acts perpetrated by our species. You must be another conspiracy loon.

          • Hold on, James. I don’t think Sheryl was going down the conspiracy track in her comment. I think that these murals can stir up some creepy parallels with regards to genocide, holocaust, apocalypse and the like and that Sheryl was reacting to it in that manner, which is legit and understandable.

            But I also agree with what your saying about how the piece as a whole is about humanity overcoming those bad things. I’m just saying that your both right and maybe misunderstanding each other a little. It’s got some bad vibes wrapped up in it, but at the same time is an overall admirable and though-provoking piece of art.

            And while I’m not sure about it being directly tied into figuring out the solution to the Chase, if it gives one some impetus to get the creative juices flowing to looking at the poem with a fresh perspective, then that’s not a bad thing either and go for it. 🙂

  29. I am not talking about the murals. I’m referring to Fenn standing there at a small waterfall and trying to describe it in a poetic poem. Remeber we see the world the way we are not the way it really is. Fenn used a word that best desribes what he is looking at. The shape of the blaze on a horses face the white flowing marking in his bind best described the small waterfall he was looking at.

    Not ready to tell.

  30. Ever seen the movie ‘Pet Sematary’…it’s probably some place like that. Remember FF said “he’d see animals”.

  31. Its out this world, the hidey space must be in outer space somewhere in the Milky Way , Polaris is North Star, Kochab is old Cephus will be new. Could be the treasure boxes one in the north and one in the south near the Southern Cross . On earth could be in a power vault near St Mary’s in Montana, seems things aren’t always linear , But what do I know seems I’m always wrong. Elevation just don’t fit. Fenn,s treasure is for sure in a Heavenly place where ever that is. sure is Sunny here today, Hope the wheather getting better in the rockies . Be back soon.

  32. We all know Fenn said: “I know the treasure chest is wet.”, and when asked if it’s still wet he replied: “physics tells me the treasure is wet.” The ‘wet’ reference has always puzzled me. I’m convinced it is not submerged but if it’s covered in ‘frozen water’ is that still considered wet? Is coating the bronze in wax to protect it considered wet? Maybe he is referring to condensation but he also said: “You will find no mildew in the treasure chest”.
    Webster’s definition of wet:
    a : consisting of, containing, covered with, or soaked with liquid (as water)
    b : of natural gas : containing appreciable quantities of readily condensable hydrocarbons
    I think he means the ‘b’ definition. In my Googling efforts I found this:
    ‘Tar is a complex mixture of condensable hydrocarbons’.


    • Randawg. Because FF said “Physics” , I always looked at what he said there as meaning of copper’s chemical reaction to air and moisture over time. It will eventually turn green. A good example of this is the Statue Of Liberty . It is plated with with copper and eventually she turned all green. Copper is also anti mildew. . Indulgence is bronze, which is part copper. Over time it is possible that Indulgence could be green in color. It doesn’t need to be in water for this to happen , just exposed to moisture . IMO. I could be wrong.

      • Patina (/ˈpætᵻnə/ or /pəˈtiːnə/) is a thin layer that variously forms on the surface of stone; on copper, bronze and similar metals (tarnish produced by oxidation or other chemical processes);[1] on wooden furniture (sheen produced by age, wear, and polishing); or any such acquired change of a surface through age and exposure. Patinas can provide a protective covering to materials that would otherwise be damaged by corrosion or weathering. They may also be aesthetically appealing.

        Exactly! It’s called “petina.”

        On metal, patina is a coating of various chemical compounds such as oxides, carbonates, sulfides, or sulfates formed on the surface during exposure to atmospheric elements (oxygen, rain, acid rain, carbon dioxide, sulfur-bearing compounds), a common example of which is rust which forms on iron or steel when exposed to oxygen. Patina also refers to accumulated changes in surface texture and colour that result from normal use of an object such as a coin or a piece of furniture over time.[2]

        • Sheryl Lynn. Thank you, petina is it exactly. Statue Of Liberty ; over which she stands sentinel-the green goddess!

          • Thank you for your comments. Would you describe the Statue of Liberty as being wet?

        • I think it was WINTER TIME in the Rockies
          when FF provided his comment about the TC being wet. Especially if it was early in the day in the Rockies when FF posted that the TC is wet, then he could have been referring to condensation. For example, on the bottom of the bronze chest, in the shade, there would be a bit of dew. Just one droplet could qualify the word “wet”.

          I have been urging searchers not to under-estimate FF. His comment about “wet” is
          not a clue or even a hint. All IMO.

          • I don’t know if his words are words based at the time he spoke them. I don’t view his ‘wet’ comment as being much of a hint nor clue either. To my understanding, in the Rockies there are many more wet months than dry months and rain in the summer. IMO. But I don’t know much of anything for certain with anything I think lol. IMO .

          • Here is the original quote:”If I was standing where the treasure chest is, I’d see trees, I’d see mountains, I’d see animals. I’d smell wonderful smells of pine needles, or pinyon nuts, sagebrush—and I know the treasure chest is wet. Well you’ve asked me a lot of questions and some of them—most of them I answered, a few I haven’t, but I’ve got to tell you—there’s one thing I told you I wish I had not.” f

            This was then followed later by this quote:, ” “Mr. Fenn, In your interview with New Mexico True Stories, you mentioned that you know that the treasure is wet. I checked out the date of that interview and it looks like you said that in a February, which could mean that you knew that it had snowed or rained at the site of the treasure chest, or simply because of higher water.
            Now we are in mid-summer, and if we assume that no storms have passed through recently, would you know that the treasure is wet now? ~Thanks, B
            Yes B, physics tells me the treasure is wet”. f

            Hope that this clears it up for you. JDA

          • Tighterfocus;

            It is my opinion that you need to take a “Tighter Focus” on this one. The two quotes I have supplied more than imply (at least to me) that Forrest was NOT talking about a bit of “dew”. A small bit of research is all that it takes – at least in MY opinion. JDA

          • i’m firmly in your camp on this one too JDA, and often wonder whether Forrest regretted mentioning ‘wet’ rather than the generally excepted ‘pinion nuts’ comment.

            and if the TC is wet to some degree (in mid-summer due to physics) but it’s not submerged, then it must be located within a shallow tributary/water-course or natural spring imho

            “We live in a Newtonian world of Einsteinian physics ruled by Frankenstein logic.” – David Russell

          • CH;

            I am in total agreement with your logic:
            ” then it must be located within a shallow tributary/water-course or natural spring ”

            Or combine the two – then it must be located within a shallow tributary/water-course and fed by natural spring . Just Musin’ JDA

          • May 16, 2015 – “How can anything be in the Rocky Mountains and not be wet.” Even if it were buried six feet deep, it would still be wet.”

          • Tried posting this earlier but the traffic is bumper to bumper.

            …it’s probably already wet, and look at what fire did to the twin towers. Nature makes her own rules, James, so I try to not be absolute when talking about her.
            MW’s Oct 27th 2014

          • Seeker,

            I don’t know what to say. How in the world can you compare a terrorist destruction of the twin towers to Nature?

            Nature had nothing to do with their collapse. Airplanes striking buildings at 500 MPH+ loaded to capacity with JP-4 or whatever is going to raise steel temps to the level that the structure is not capable of handling the building “dead” loads, pure an simple. And guess what? The building collapses. Sorry for using “dead” loads but I think you get my drift.


          • Thank you for clarifying that Alsetenash. I like totally missed the context. My apologies Seeker.


          • Alsetenash,
            Thanks for the link… I was having a hard time yesterday with both sites.

            I didn’t say it, fenn did.
            I’m a bit surprised that so many don’t know or dismiss these quotes and Q&A’s.

            That was my point of posting them… There was so much talk about one and only one quote… the chest is wet. I just don’t understand why they don’t/won’t utilize all the information, and just run with what works for their “general solve” …

            Then again, I don’t know why I even bother posting it. They’ll just come up with an excuse that works for them anyways.

          • Seekster – “quotation marks!” ..heard of them, ever?! ..i mean, better call Saul 🙂

            and yes, you’re entirely right (& brave) to directly challenge Newtons Laws of physics, whatever they are.. (something about an apple or pear situation..?)

            bearing in mind tho, the context of Forrests comments, re: wet in mid-summer etc. combined with gravities influence on sub-terrainian flow-paths and stuff, that have a natural tenancy to sprout anywhere, randomly..

            soooo… are you calling Isaac Newton a liar then? – tsk tsk, def sounds like it 🙁

            ( ..don’t worry tho Seeks – jus so happens i have Saul on speed-dial
            ..jus’ say the word mate 🙂 )

          • CH,
            Gee, I’d of thought ~MW’s Oct 27th 2014 ~ would have been a clue… my bad.
            But lets see it from the bones side of things… A man travels to a place to be among the trees, animals, and smells of nature, takes from his pocket a RX for sleepy time tea [extra strength] to lay wet, while waiting for the day’s light to fade into twilight… “Just take the chest and leave my bones, or something like that.”

            Then again, maybe we can forgo the gloves, and bring galoshes and a water resistant poncho instead.

          • Interesting is this , as a reflection of interpretations of something said or omitted in saying, to how things are perceived in meanings. The what is said in meaning depends on the who said it. Human nature vs Mother Nature. Mother Nature knows where the hidey spot is lol.

          • jeez Seeker – write the intros for that ‘Days of our Lives’ documentary much?

            ya may also wish to mention how safe it is to ‘not be eaten by a shark’ whilst dipping oneself in the vivaciousness of a seductive natural spring, forever..

            ( ..water resistant poncho optional – albeit, totally 80’s 🙂 )

          • By FF referring to pinion “nut” do You think they were ready to harvest and he was enjoying them as a fresh snack?

  33. Well…my hidey space may be a BUST. Looks like there may be a Trouble With Confidence…Part Deux. I’m still investigating though, so there still remains some small hope.

      • I’m there now. Trying to get over the flu I got three days ago. I’m staying one more night to put possibilities to rest. Strange thing is…everything adds up perfectly…except the sum.

        • I’m sorry to hear that IW. How has the weather been? Is there still snow on the ground from that last storm?

          • There’s still a foot to foot and a half snow still here, depending on areas of shade. I did not anticipate that.

        • Sorry to hear that IW…I guess that advance we were talking about …just kidding. Keep the faith and move on with better understanding. Safe travels…

        • Hi Will. Hope you feel better soon. Don’t over do it.
          I just have one comment. If you can text while you are there, that is the part of the equation you may have missed? 🙂

        • you’re braver than most here IW – take care not to push too hard with that flu though

          keep ya chin up mate, and best of luck

        • Good luck in your search, IW. Take care of yourself, and be careful out there.


          Windy City

          • Well I thought I had all clues found. But, without the chest, I might not even have the first one. That’s what I meant by the comment above.

        • Understood. I’ve been there myself, it sucks. Dusted myself off and worked on another solve. Hope you feel better.

        • Hang in there, IW! Take it easy, get well, and enjoy the setting you are in while you are there. It’s not going anywhere, so take your time and collect your thoughts in Forrest’s great backyard!

    • Gather as much Intel as you can will. Pix, notes, numbers, etc. It helps, trust me. 🙂

  34. Maybe its hidden in an Eagles nest on a pole near St Mary, Lots of visitors there, Sirius though enjoy the chase everyone.

  35. The day f, said he knew that the chest was wet, it may have
    been a day, that it rained, in the area that the chest is located.
    He may have the weather report on his computer, for that
    area, just my option, but if I am right, this supposed hint may
    be worthless?

    • Sam,
      Someone posed that same question to Forrest. I think on MW, but I don’t have the exact source. (Anybody else have it?) His response was “physics tells me the treasure is wet.”

      • It’s here:

        Mr. Fenn,

        In your interview with New Mexico True Stories, you mentioned that you know that the treasure is wet. I checked out the date of that interview and it looks like you said that in a February, which could mean that you knew that it had snowed or rained at the site of the treasure chest, or simply because of higher water.

        Now we are in mid-summer, and if we assume that no storms have passed through recently, would you know that the treasure is wet now? ~Thanks, B

        Yes B, physics tells me the treasure is wet. f

      • Key words for a search on that Q&A… How can anything be in the Rocky Mountains and not be wet…
        These should provide links to the full original Q&A.

    • Hi Sam.

      Your point is one of many that was said to infer something relating to Fennology and the statement that included “the chest is wet”.

      Yourviewpoint should be an explanation to those words, that should be on everyone’s list wwhen considering its meaning.

      Even though one may not put it on that list, it still is a plausible answer for that phrase and should not be discarded as “nothing”.


      • TIM,
        I gotta hand it to Iron W for owning up, curious if you’re planning a quiet sneak out to investigate your solve, just in case you go Bust?

        It goes to show, you can’t rush Mother Nature

  36. Tom, the chest in my option is not air or moisture tight, moisture can get in, once it gets in, it may stay? Is this physics? Moisture may stay in the chest from one rain to the next rain, no matter where it is located. I would guess that is why f, sealed the bottle in the chest with his history.
    I think this shows that f, thought moisture gets in the chest, or he would not have sealed the bottle in the chest.

  37. Buried theory, part II.
    Some think the chest is located out in the open. Like sitting at the base of a tree sprinkled with a few pine needles.
    I don’t think so.

    Mr Fenn likes to dig:
    He buried his 8 bronze bells.
    He dug a hole for the 18″ x 10″ ugly pot. (SB 166)
    He buried the bell tower post 24″. (SB 172)
    He digs out 25′ diameter x 7′ deep Kivas as a hobby.
    He has said the treasure is hidden, instead of buried, because he does not want to give that as a clue.
    I just can’t shake the thought that he may have possibly buried the chest.
    JMO of course.

    • randawg–

      I may agree with you. But I think he had a black patch over his left eye, a parrot on his shoulder, and said “Aaaargh Forrest Fenn, Shiver me timbers, did you really just do that? Aaarrrgh!” 🙂

    • Dawg-
      There is no need for guessing. The answer is in the poem, if you can find it. It’s the ninth clue. My opinion of course 🙂

    • The phrase “look quickly down” is what stands out to me as signifying little or no digging required. That’s only my gut impression.

    • Can’t fault your logic Randawg. But then how do you explain his comment regarding if someone got within 12′ of it that it would be hard to imagine it wouldn’t be found?

      There would have to be yet another indicator (the blaze?) to locate the spot. There are a few different meanings of “down” so it would seem for the 12′ to work, then it would likely be as towards the ground. I’m still struggling with “look quickly down” just because it seems too easy. The poem is “Difficult but not impossible ‘. But then he also says don’t over-complicate it.

      But l’m still studying and thinking hard. Just hope my brain cells last as my 93 year old mother died of dimentia in January and at my age I don’t even want to contemplate that possibility. That’s why I love this thing so much. It keeps the gray matter working; the best defense for that horrible illness.

      • I agree with Dawg. I believe it’s buried. Actually, buried at an EXACT coordinate. That’s why he said to bring a GPS. And concerning his 12′ comment…….. A GPS is accurate to within about 10-12 feet. So if someone figured the coordinates and searched it +/- 12′ or so with a metal detector, that would explain it. IMO

        • Or he said bring a GPS because he’s worried that someone is going to get lost in an area they are unfamiliar with. Same thing with a good map and a sandwich. Remember the trip he took looking for Lewis and Clark… they didn’t bring enough food and they had to use the map to start a fire 🙂

          • I would.. I mean im not going to carry a salami sandwich with italian dressing in a greasy paper bag… but I would have a couple of energy bars and plenty of water. In fact, when I went searching two years ago… even though where I was looking wasnt far off the beaten path, I had my backpacking stuff… backpack, tent, stove, fuel, tent, foam pad, sleeping bag and some food. The nice thing is, then you have a nice bag to put the treasure chest in and no one will suspect a thing 🙂

    • Thanks Sparrow I forgot to mention that.
      PG 133 of TTOTC Fenn dreamed he was Captain Kidd looking for his treasure on Gardiner’s Island.
      It is well documented that Kidd buried his treasure there.
      (Interesting, …no?)

    • randawg, “possibly” is one of those versatile words that also
      means the opposite scenario could be the existing one. In
      other words, FF may have possibly NOT buried the chest.
      If he buried the chest, it’s likely that a lot of experimental digging would be in order, even by one who had totally correctly solved the poem. This, to me, doesn’t make a lot of sense. Would FF want a redneck Texan — with 12 kids
      to manage — to be spending his time laboriously digging, instead of taking care of his kids? I don’t think so! So forget the need to dig, okay? The TC is hidden, but not buried. And for all the folks that are so fond of using the phrase “in plain sight”, I say that FF has been widely and generally under-estimated for at least 6 or 7 years now. I
      do believe that the TC is not stuck into a narrow place that would make the thing very inaccessible by one who has found it. A hiker is not likely (statistically) to have a rope or long hook conveniently on hand. But gloves do make
      sense to me. Good luck, everyone. IMO.

      • “Possibly” is the word to use when the facts are not yet known. Many who have jumped to certainty in the Chase have already been proven wrong.
        What if the clues do lead to very specific spot in which to dig? And why can’t the Texan’s kids help him dig? I’m not sure it’s buried, but I think it is under ground level. Only time will tell right?
        Good luck with your rope and hook.


        “When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.”
        – Mr. Spock.

      • One definition of the word
        “in” = enclosed or surrounded by something
        it generally adds limitations

    • Hello randawg, Let me put your mind at ease. IMO he did’t bury it because that would open whole mess of legal issues. He said he thought of everything. I believe he means it. It might be concealed by things. but definitely not buried.

      • Hi Steve, I’ve thought that too. So what are Your thoughts on “I give you title to the gold.”
        Do You think title has any…..? loss for words

      • It is possible for something to be hidden below ground level and not be technically buried.
        And it is also possible for something to be hidden above ground in such a way that some would define it as buried.
        In my solve legality is not an issue.


    • Is it possible that he placed it where he knew it would be buried in it’s own time? Rock slide/avalanche? High water? Trees falling? Flood Area?

  38. Poetry page was closed for comments so I will leave this here.

    Long journeys begin with just a step
    Back foot forward and then the next
    Against the weathers full effects
    Up mountain sides, tops wind swept

    Legs grow tired, out of breath
    There is no shame to stop and rest
    Fast is folly, use patience lest
    Eagerness become your death

    Wear your smile as you near the end
    Know your journey’s not for naught
    The hidey spot, just where you thought
    Treasure in hand, leave with a grin
    Knowing you’ll come back again

    Happy early Easter weekend everyone!

  39. “Yes B, physics tells me the treasure is wet. f”

    What we know about water and physics, may be able to lead us to an exact location or region. Sort of like a “reverse engineering” of the poem.

    Can it be done? Let’s poke around…
    – How can it be “wet”?
    + in the literal way – ???
    + In an allegoric manner – ???
    + By precipitation – we know that the RMs have snow, water, rain, mist, damp, dew, and probably others I have already categorized into these.
    + a wet chest – We know that bronze can last a long time in really just about any type of weather. If you have not already studied the characteristics of the chest, please investigate that, as well as, the word “wet”), because some things will be much easier to follow. We also know that everything in the chest can only have some of those characteristics of moisture. In other words, physics tell us that moisture will accumulate in an unsealed container, thus the inside of the chest could container some residual effects of water….”the chest is wet”.
    But just because of how moisture accumulates in different temps and or atmospheres, a semi-sealed containers will accumulate some moisture, and very possibly, evaporate that moisture over a period of time if the container is in direct sunlight. The external heating of a bronze box, will cause the moisture inside to evaporate, as long as it is not opened repeatedly….as this one is not.

    To keep this interesting, what are your thoughts on the literal and allegoric meanings of “wet”? I’d be interested in what others think if you are willing to interject something.

    Best of luck to all!


    • Hola Tim 🙂

      i agree with JDA, that the chest might be located within a small rivulet, or beneath a natural spring perhaps, given that a blaze (above?) can mean a ‘scar on a rock’, and rocks are so easily scarred by water over time

      but physics is hugely general, apparently i’m jus gonna roll with my favourite uncontrollable bits (gravity & climatology) and guess that it’s wet all year round – esp given all that ‘micro-waxy-stuff’ that Forrest spent the time to research and practice

      ( ..but sshhh, just don’t tell JDA that i like him though..!!)

      ( ..he might get all gushy 🙂 )

      • Thank you Dal!
        I see I have some binge reading and watching to do.
        I am new to the hunt and find it fascinating to say the least.

      • wait jus a cotton-pickin’ minute there, Dal-ness!!
        surely you actually meant to say ‘just Aussies’ ..right??
        ..given that i cain’t remember any ‘NZ’ interviewer asking Forrest what ‘North’ means..??

        ..i mean… EVERYWHERE is ‘North’ to us southern Hobbiteses (>270º and <90º and everything!!)

        ..tsk tsk – you're SUCH a big fibber, Dal.. 🙁
        ( ..i'm ringing Richie Cunningham immediately ..bucko!)

  40. I recall a clock tower at the intersection in west Yellowstone by the old train depot, and also recall Forrest saying he looks at the webcam there and the blaze orange train car by the building he used to shower in.
    Perhaps “if you’ve been wise (clockwise) and found the blaze (the orange train car) look quickly down your quest to cease ( at the clock ) but tarry scant with marvel gaze ( the base of the clock ) just take the chest and go in peace. (When no ones looking) Perhaps the old coot snuck it into the base of that clock in the middle of the night right in plain sight where everyone looks often? Is there a service door on the west side of the base of the clock?? someone go look, I’ll fire up the stove and get some Stetson Stew ready for Jake 🙂

    • I do think it’s in some place like that at the base of something. where there’s a lot of people and eyeballs around hence (tarry scant with marvel gaze) timing is everything, gotta be quick when no one’s looking, probably 200′ from the viewing area. TIMING IS EVERYTHING! especially for pilots

      • aMp I agree!
        I have a solve that has a lot of people around.
        Some searchers mention a train.

  41. Here’s a technical question for the people who believe in an “X” marks-the-spot solution. Suppose you have an exact location for your solve (latitude and longitude coordinates). How do you find the treasure if it is buried (which I believe it is) if you only have a recreational grade GPS, which can be off by as much as 30 to 40 meters in the mountains. Even if Forrest himself gave you the exact coordinates, you could dig for a week in an area that could be several thousand square feet, given the lack of accuracy of the GPS, and still not uncover the chest.

    • Warlock – Long time no see – Welcome back.

      To me, the last stanza is the answer to your question.
      “If you’ve been wise (Past tense) and found the blaze”(sic)
      Look quickly down, your quest to cease,
      But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
      Just take the chest and go in peace.”

      If you have followed the “directions” correctly up to this point, you will have found a blaze (maybe more than one). When you DO find THIS blaze, look quickly down (to another location), and you will BE SHOWN something that will end your quest. (Another “blaze” or marking perhaps?) But do not spend a lot of time looking at this “tarry scant” – Just take the chest and go in peace.

      Sound confusing enough? Well, for me at least, once ALL of the riddles have been unraveled, it makes sense. JDA

      • Thanks JDA – Not confusing, no – just another way of looking at it. In my solve, the blaze and everything else has already been taken in to account and my final result is a set of coordinates. I just need to get to those coordinates, that one square foot area but I cannot do it with a $200 GPS.

      • Warlock62 – the most common cause of GPS inaccuracy in the wilderness is ‘signal block’ which is caused by lack of adequate satellite signal within narrow canyons or under a dense veg canopy, the same problems can also be experienced in urban CBD ‘canyons’, but worse still is ‘multi-path error’ where the signal bounces off canyon walls to give you a completely false co-ordinate altogether, and will have you chasing ya tail all day long, but never realising it 🙁

        yes, a more expensive sat-nav (with access to GLONASS/Galileo systems) will def help with more accuracy, but is certainly no silver-bullet either, esp when under dense bush

        have you considered plotting your X co-ord onto the right map, and leaving the sat-nav just for emergencies?

        i mean.. you DO have the right map, doncha?? 🙂

        • That’s excellent info hobbit. Thank you for your input. Like you said, in the Rockies there’s no sure fire way to pinpoint an EXACT square foot, even with the best systems, and some cost $10,000 and more. I’m not sure what you mean by the right map. I use Google Earth and various topo maps. What do YOU mean by the right map? :O)

          • Hi Warlock…I too have pondered, what exactly is meant by a map nei,g “a good map”?

            Here are some of my thoughts….

            FF at one time had said – in some extent – to “draw an X on the map”…..but I’ve always been questioning…which map?…what kind of map?….where did he get it from?…why that specific map?….what access to maps does he have?….can I acquire this map?….does one need the internet to use a good map?….

            – on the map he probably used extensively…….was he able to draw an X on his map based upon hints and clues?
            – what map was he referencing when he decided to say that?

            So in thought, using reason and logic, if we had that map he used, we would know what he is talking about directly, and since we don’t, we now have to guess on what map to use, right? Still with me?


            Sooooo….*in his best computer synthetic voice*

            SHALL WE PLAY A GAME?

            FYI….Did you know FF is/was a AAA member? Did you know you can acquire the same maps that he may be “referencing”, if you are a AAA member – if any region that they stock. YNP included.

            Good luck.

          • Tim ~ “So in thought, using reason and logic, if we had that map he used,..”

            When you talk about “a map or that map” You seem to rely on a type of map.. ex. a AAA map. Ok sure.

            Yet the logic and the reasoning is missing a detail… GE “and / or” a good map… Doesn’t that imply GE alone is a good map [ mapping system ] itself?

            We also have; A map is a map and the more detailed a map the better~ if you have the right map.

            Would it be logical that any map we should be looking at, has those details? and attempt to figure out what those “detail” represent?
            A road map is basically just that.
            A historical sight map is basically just that.
            A topographical map is just that.
            A water system maps is just that.
            A flight plan map. [aircraft]
            A survey map.
            Sun alignment map.
            Star constellation map.
            Rail Road map.
            Maps of pinyon-juniper forests {yep there are those as well} [ LOL on the CD and in MT.. Who’da thunk it]
            etc. etc.

            Maybe we should ask ourselves more about the details of a map.. and / or.. “GE,” than a type of one and only mapping. I mean, If GE [ and it mapping systems ] is good enough, can we or do we, need another type of map?

            The fact that fenn add GE into the equation has always made me think… is it more about an arrangement of details, than a single type of any map…
            The one thing that pops into my head is “observing”… GE allows picture observation [ for lack of a better term ], not just in one location, but all over the search area and more.

            We’re even guessing if fenn used a map himself at all. Yep, the poem is a map… but maybe fenn only describes the clues references by being on site and observing / knowing the location and made the poem a map from that only.
            Lets face if… would ‘we’ need a map IF we ‘knew’ the place[s]?

          • Hi seeker…..great response.

            Now don’t get me wrong on that i don’t think GE isn’t a good map, because it can be, but it gives a different perception to a birds eye tothe viewer, much different than a BOTG view, while trekking across the landscape.

            I also am one to believe the poem consists of a “Sunday drive through the mountains” and FF just observed and then memorized/wrote down what he saw. That to me, shows familiairity within the construction of the poem by the maker.

            So, although I agree with your look at the poem, I think that you do have to mix and match per se the different components of basic mountain hiking {“safe for a family”} and then try your luck on a viable soultion.

            I also believe many different things than the community in this hunt, as you differ in thoughts than i….but…..believe it or not, you have some similar thinking as I do, and like me, methodically take steps……

            Did that help?

          • Speaking of maps… how about this early reported comment:

            “Every day, people call begging for clues. The other day, I had 21 email requests. One man asked if he should buy a topographical map and I told him he’d be better served reading the book again.” Fenn looked at me. “All you have to do is think about the nine clues and follow them in order.”

            There are some interesting things that can be inferred from this… of course f has more recently said:

            “Read the clues in my poem over and over and study maps of the Rocky Mountains,” he said via email. “Try to marry the two. The treasure is out there waiting for the person who can make all the lines cross in the right spot.”

          • nice quote JCM, and is yet another example of Forrest being all elusive, as usual.

            “Is the map that needs to be used to discover where warm waters halt found online or in paper form? or both?” ~mdc777

            “C’mon now agent 777, a map is a map. The more detailed maps are most useful if you have the right map, but I’m not sure I needed to tell you that.f”

            I enjoy a good topo-map not just for the natural geographical detail, but for the historical detail too, including old man-made structures and other points of interest (i.e. my solve for ‘heavy loads’ was based upon recorded historical pack-trails, which often tend to follow waterways)

            maybe i’m not looking at ‘thee right map’ but i’m having lotsa fun anyhoos 🙂

        • well.. i’m not entirely certain of what Forrest considers the “right map” to be, but if you appreciate maps that possess the most geographical detail & accuracy, then ya def can’t go past an official USGS topo-map i reckon

          coz if you can’t plot your X on one of those maps accurately, i’ll immediately eat one of Papa Bobs Ultimate Obesity sandwiches, with extra fries and extra-extra mustard too ..seriously!!

          (..anything but Jakes old hat 🙂 )

          • No, don’t eat that hat! I can PLOT my “X” but finding the exact location BOTG comparing it to the “X” on my map is the tough part. How does someone find the exact spot on the ground to insert the shovel, based on an “X” on a topo map? That sandwich sounds good though!

          • whatever ya do Warlock62, don’t eat the sandwiche ..or the hat!! – trust me 🙂

            and although i’m def not a loyal fan within the ‘it’s buried’ camp, i can well advise you to record multiple (static) sat-nav points over a duration of a few hours, and mean/average all co-ord points if that’s an app-option (or decimalised co-ords is easy on a calculator) for more accuracy

            but ‘best hobbit-advice ever’ is, always wear steel-cap boots whilst frantically digging ..esp if ya spade is sharp!! 🙂

          • ..i mean, they don’t call me “three toes hobbit” for nought, that’s fer sure 🙁

            ( ..fact!! 🙂 )

          • Unfortunately topographical maps are being downgraded today. The historical cabins, mines, roads and trails have been removed. Also name changes to creeks and mountains. Today’s “new and improved” topo maps are almost plain compared to those of yesteryear. Lots of X’s have been removed.

          • * * * * Strawshadow wrote – “Unfortunately topographical maps are being downgraded today. . . . Today’s “new and improved” topo maps are almost plain compared to those of yesteryear. Lots of X’s have been removed.” * * * *

            Too true, Straw, in more ways than one.

            Yes, the new USGS print-on-demand files are convenient and fully functional, but almost devoid of character.

            The old style I used for 40 years were to me little works of cartographic AND landscape art. I took them everywhere I hiked or backpacked, whether I needed them or not for route-finding, just because it was always such fascinating exercise (or even just pastime) to compare the cartography to the land, and turn it into narrative. And finding your place in a bigger picture was also a kind of time-seeing into the past and future – there was yesterday, and over here are some several possible tomorrows.


          • Many will already have this, many more simply use Google Earth, but for any who appreciate maps-as-artifacts, these may be of interest, and maybe even useful.

            Here’s a site where you can view the USGS topo map index map for each state (easy to zoom in to read the names of the maps corresponding to where you’re looking/travelling).


            This one’s a great viewer that takes you right down to traditional topo map view (can toggle between topo and satellite view)



          • sorry to hear that Strawshadow, hopefully it’s not about budget cuts (an all-too-familiar phrase of late) but whatever their reasoning for reducing topo-data will never be a good enough reason, in my book

            JAKe – both are great links (cheers) and def agree with your “landscape art” observations 🙂

            hope ya like this link too,44.573916&level=9

    • Good point WL
      Shortly before my last trip I bought a older used one off ebay for 30 bucks, the moment it comes on you get the accuracy warning/ at times as high as +/- 120ft

      In a panic I picked up trex 20 online [about 4x the money] hoping for better accuracy, trouble is once I was there I couldn’t work it…I felt like throwing at 1 or 2 of the smart-alleck-gradeschoolers, that were giggling at us.

      Nah, like ff said, if by some miracle you’re 12ft close, doubtful you won’t recognize it.

      I’m not knocking handhelds, they most certainly can help you find your way back to the car, even in a snowstorm (surprisingly so, since I did fall down a few times, dropping my backpack | that model 62 always acted funny after that trip 2014)

      • Sounds like we’ve had the same problem, 9clues. Thanks for the input. I’ve thought about renting a much more accurate and expensive model.

    • Warlock – if you have to ask about GPS accuracy, you probably do not have a good solve. The person who has the correct solve with go directly there (no concern for GPS accuracy). There is much more to the terrain with BOTG and the correct solve will not need to worry with a GPS at all. (no special tools are required). IMO

  42. Is there a place on this blog to discuss the potential that he may have buried it? Or am I in the right place? And if he did bury it how deep? Quickly down is that a few feet or several?

      • I have given much thought to the hiding place but from a different perspective. What’s the most popular and profitable thing the finder can do? Write another poem, write another book and rehide the treasure. Keep the Chase alive! Forever. If you can find it, you can hide it again. Find the Fenn treasure. Hide the Fenn treasure. Be like Iceman.

    • Road-Hawk,
      Scroll back about 51 comments before yours to see my take on this subject.

      • Yes I agree that Mr. Fenn likes to bury things. I found a curious thing a couple weeks ago and didn’t have a shovel or metal detector with me. I dug one hole last summer in a different location and came up empty. I was in the he didn’t bury it he hid it camp for a long time but now I have been leaning towards the whole buried idea and don’t like it but what have I got to loose? It just bugs me that this curiosity I found is located about 100 ft from a human made trail. I wonder if Mr. Fenn is a bad judge of distance? I can pace out my steps for distance and it just bugs me that I am going to dig a hole there with the 200ft reference he gave.

        • I think the buried camp has the best chance of finding it. If it’s buried there is less competition because not everyone is a digger and if its not buried You’ll find it on the way to dig.

      • I would investigate that curious thing Road Hawk. Mr Fenn never specified how far ‘close proximity’ is. I attached a question posted on Jenny’s site:

        Dear Mr. Fenn,
        Can you clarify for us your definitions of “close proximity” and “very close proximity?”

        It’s not that easy Milan. Are you asking me to carry a caliper in my pocket? Each “close proximity” is different, relative, and site-specific, as you pointed out. So I can’t answer your question. To an ant a mud puddle can be like an ocean. f

  43. I just realized I did my entire search unaware that I had an exposed chest firmly in mind. Not even a burlap bag covering it. Guess I gotta go back.

    I think it was the “12 ft” comment that established or reinforced that assumption, which slipped by unnoticed. Amazing.

  44. One of Mr Fenn’s most re-quoted quotes:
    “I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure.
    It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.”ff

    It doesn’t mean that some random hiker would stumble on it. I believe it means that if you follow the clues correctly, they will lead a searcher close enough to the chest to see or otherwise ascertain the location of the hidey space.

  45. I think that anyone who gets within 12 feet of the TC will know — in some
    detail — how and where to look for the TC, although the last bit of detail
    may not become apparent until the person is within a few hundred yards
    of the TC. I don’t think it’s buried underground. I think it has one smallish rock on top (possibly to deter animals or wind from opening the lid). Possibly more than one rock. And I think sharp edges may be found
    on the rock(s) . . . thus the advice to wear gloves. Mine are leather.

    Good luck to all searchers. IMO.

      • Some important visual info is only available BOTG, and not visible on GE. Being BOTG and close enough to see this info is important re: knowing how and where to look. IMO.

  46. Today I went and finished checking out the curiosity I found two weeks ago but this time with a shovel. Wishing I had a metal detector. Thouroughly enjoyed poking around for about four hours before a thunderstorm kicked me out of there.

    How deep is a hole?

    Everyone stay safe! Have bear spray will travel. Cheers!

  47. The poem says your effort will be worth the cold. To me, this indicates that wading in a creek is required. The other possibility, less likely in my opinion, is that the treasure is located at an elevation that is cold year round.

    • Cricket23: he said the chest is not under water. And I think most reasonable people will extend that to mean it is not (regularly) sitting in water either (e.g. a shallow pond). But that doesn’t mean YOU won’t have to cross water to get to the treasure chest’s location. What better way to reduce the chances of someone just randomly stumbling across the chest if the easiest (or only!) way to get to it is by crossing a body of water?

      • Zap. In this case, I would substitute “damp” for “wet”. My opinion is that the chest is below ground level (but not buried), leading to a constant state of dampness.

        • Tom;

          Are we splitting hairs or deciding what the definition of “IS” is? “the chest is below ground level (but not buried)”. OK, I dig a hole, I put Indulgence in the hole (It is below ground level) but I do not put the dirt back in the hole over Indulgence, so it is not buried??? Do I follow you? In seven years, you do not think that dirt, silt, debris will not naturally find its way back into this depression – this “hole” that is below ground level? Seems like splitting hairs to me Tom. Please explain. JDA

          • JDA, Talk about ‘spitting hairs’… if the chest was set in a crack in a rock-wall 6’ above the ground level and debris is blow in, covering it… is it buried???
            The question should be, was it deliberately buried? That’s an action of the person hiding the chest… not nature and her uncontrollable forces.

            Isn’t damp the same as wet, just less wet?
            If a glass is full water on the inside and condensation sets on the outside, is one side wetter, more wet, fully wet, completely wet than the other, or are both side just wet? We can measure absorption rates, but I’m not sure if we can measure wet.

            As for your comment cold means either in water or elevation that is colder… why can’t cold refer to day vs. night?
            I mean, unless you’re dead-set against the blaze being a pointer, and a sunrise shadows a location… wouldn’t you have to be at the location [plan for] before this occurs?
            Maybe even camp out near there? Are you afraid of the darkness?

            Heck, the temperature can differ by 10 to 15 degrees from direct sunlight to a shade area. Maybe the chest is constantly shaded-?- giving it a colder indirect temperature.

          • Lol, Seeker, I like it…Does ‘moist” fit in the discussion? Not really “damp” but “moist” like. Lol, Between a rock and a hard space… You guys crack me up.
            Guess we can throw out ” in the wood” and “home of Brown” and focus more on “tarry scant”, (as long as the tar has hardened). Then again, f does not talk that much about trees or his love for them, does he? I guess his “hint” of riches isn’t seeping in.

          • Seeker;
            I agree – If it was covered by (in this case) Forrest, it is buried. If Forrest placed it in a recess, and did not cover it, and “stuff” blew in, is it buried? Interesting question. I would still say yes – It would SEEM buried to the finder, even though Forrest would say that he did not bury it.

            I like the idea of it being in a recess, and covered by a “Tarry Scant”. Water seeping into the recess would tell Forrest that it is “wet” to one degree or another. Just being below ground level, water seepage into the recess is very likely. Covered by a “Tarry Scant” would keep “stuff” from blowing in or filtering in. But what do I know? Probably NADA – JDA

          • JDA,
            I was only giving an example. However, I wouldn’t call it buried and more like, covered…

            But lets spit some more hairs… scant in this case [ your explanation ] would need to cover an area the same size or more than the chest itself. 5×10” or a little more than 4 feet of tarry anything would be needed. Doesn’t sound like scant to me… Did fenn make it on site? Bring it with him? Does it really matter if the poem take us precisely to the treasure?

            There must be billions of nooks and crannies in the RM’s. Probably, much more than there are blazes… I’d bet my last doller not every recess or crack as been found that could stow a 5″ x 10″ [ almost the same size as a bundle of copy paper ] object and not be seen.

            LOL… what I’m surprised at is, nobody jumped at the change to quote; “…throw myself on the chest.”
            Sorta rules out being ‘up’ in a crack or recess… The again, we all know fenn doesn’t tell 15% of the truth, right?… so I’m ok with that… I’ll just strap a 6′ step ladder to the roof of my 4runner. Problem solved.

          • Seeker you are right. If Indulgence is on its side, the recess needs to be at least 5″ X 10 “. To be safe let’s say 7″ X 12”. so the rock (Tarry Scant) covering the recess needs to be at least 9″ X 14″ or more, and at least 2″ thick (I would guess). Just to be safe let’s say that the stone covering the recess is 10″ X 16 or 18″ and 5″ thick – just to make it heavy enough to not be accidentally moved. A stone this size would weigh about 60 – 65 Lbs. A bit bigger, and you would be at 70 – 75 lbs.

            Nope, not scant by that definition. Scant can mean a flat stone though – an old mason’s term. Doubt that a stone this size would be moved easily, and probably not at all unless the person that wanted to move it was given reason to believe that a recess and Indulgence was below this stone.
            Just my muttled way of thinking- JDA

          • Seeker – regarding your question about did Forrest bring or make such a “Tarry Scant?” My bet is that he just found a fairly flat stone of the desired dimensions somewhere VERY near the recess. 60 – 75 lbs can be rolled, but not easily carried. I know. I am a stone sculptor, and I have had to move my share of stones – some flat, some no. Like you said, doesn’t really matter if the poem leads you to where it is at.

            Need for a ladder – I doubt it.

            “Throw myself on the chest – well maybe beside or on top of the Tarry Scant – How about the Tarry Scant as a pillow? Might work – JDA

        • Hi JDA/Tom B: not speaking for Tom, but perhaps he’s considering the flagstone possibility: put Indulgence in a box-shaped depression (manmade or natural), and cover with a flat rock a la TFTW page 218.

    • Zap – define “reasonable” 🙂

      “Now we are in mid-summer, and if we assume that no storms have passed through recently, would you know that the treasure is wet now? ~Thanks, B

      Yes B, physics tells me the treasure is wet. f”

      unless of course his “physics” reference directly relates to air-moisture content – which is def possible. but add this “wet” comment to the whole micro-wax-the-olive-jar procedure, and logic suggests that it’s more often in contact with water, than not, even in a storm-less mid-summer

      although, i do agree that there may be a natural boundary (like a creek) to separate random people from stumbling onto the TC, esp given how scared we all become at the thought of getting our wet feet 🙂

      • g’day CH – unsure about middle earth physics, but physics in this realm indicates only one natural way that TC could be ‘wet’ mid summer without storms IMO (when TC is not under water). So, can a hobbit connect 2 dots with a straight line? (Twilight Zone theme in background)

      • g’day Matt B – please define “two dots”? 🙂 ..not to mention your (brave) interp of that “a straight line actually exists” theory, i mean… (tsk tsk – smh)

        wait a minute!? – are you (perchance) a rasculous Australian?? ..hmmm, def sounds like it!! 🙁

        ( YAY!! 🙂 )

        • Naw, I’m a Yank, but I worked with one of your mates for 10 yrs and loved learning some new slang like spearchucker – lol. He married a Yank Lass and started a family, so I bank rolled him into sweet house after 2001 meltdown to nix rental game. I’ve always had mostly foreign friends; I just don’t get along with most corn fed Yankers!

          Anyways, I find ATF wet comment very amusing and think this is his regretted comment, not pinyon nuts. Obviously, if FF had never said wet, then this can of worms would never have been opened. But he did, and things only got fuzzier with not under water ATF earlier this year.

          I might be standing on my head, so I’ll ask Down Under, hidey near waterfall: yes, no, maybe?

        • Matt – it’s poss that the TC is near a waterfall, but in my humble experience, even waterfalls in the remotest areas tend to attract random hikers i’m picking the answer is def “no, maybe” 🙂

          • who said it was remote?
            At 80 Your not going far fast and I would think extreme inclines might be out?

          • well actually.. no-one said it was remote, apart from you Bobby – so, good luck with that one mate 🙂

  48. One fact that I consider very important to finding the treasure chest location: Forrest was originally planning to commit suicide in the location as well; not JUST hide the treasure.

    Forrest intended to lie down and take a large quantity of sleeping pills and to slowly and peacefully drift away (Which doesn’t sound like a terrible way to go, if you ask me).

    My point here is that if one were ending their life in this manner, I would think that there would be a strong desire to have very pleasant last-minute sensations.

    The last thing that one would want see before closing one’s eyes forever would be something truly beautiful (marvelous, even).

    The last sounds that one would want to hear would be pleasant (a babbling brook, the sounds of birds and forest creatures, the wind blowing through the trees … not automobiles).

    The last feelings of touch would be comfortable (dry and lying on soft grass or pine needles, not laying down in a mucky marsh or in a waterway).

    Yes, this is all just my opinion, but I don’t think I’m taking any huge leaps of empathy in this line of reasoning. If the spot doesn’t seem like a pleasant place for one to lie down for a final nap, it is likely that it is wrong, IMO.

    • Blex;

      An interesting analysis. What if you can have your cake and eat it too? How about a place, high up on a hill where a beautiful valley can be seen all-around. A valley Magnificent in its beauty. Just a few feet away, there is a small babbling brook or rill or rivulet. The ground may be wet and marshy, and it is here that Indulgence lies. She lies in a spot that few would venture to, and yet is near a spot that Forrest probably spent many-an-hour sitting and contemplating the beauty of this valley, and how it came to be. This makes sense to me.

      Sit and contemplate the valley, take your pills, and then climb down a few feet to where the little babbling brook plays. JDA

      • I think that only a few feet of difference between the location of the chest and a comfortable spot to lie down and take in the view seems reasonable to me, JDA. Your described location sounds right in line with what I was picturing.

      • Or, find that creek with the running water, below the home of Brown, and when you get there, turn UP the creek and start looking for the blaze. Whatever direction the water is running, turn toward the running water. It says, “… no paddle UP your creek”.

        It’s the only way there will be “water high” (IMHO)

        No valley visible in the creek, but from there you see trees, birds, various animals, pine trees, sage trees, wild flowers, berries, bear scat and the place is full of natural peace and beauty. It’s quiet except for the natural sounds. Yes, take those pills :-))

        Then when you find the “blaze” you probably will need a metal detector and/or a field shovel in your pack. There has been 7 or 8 seasons of weather since Mr. Fenn placed the treasure there. It will very likely be covered up good.

    • Blex and JDA. Both of your descriptions sound good to me. A nice peaceful place with the sound of running water. No, I don’t think the chest is in water. But I do believe that “cold” refers needing to wade in the creek in order to reach the treasure.

      • For example, a small flatish area on one side of a creek with steep inclines surrounding such that the only easy way to reach the spot is to wade across the creek.

      • This is the kind of place that no one is going to stumble across by accident, a “secret” place.

      • That may be, Tom B. I’m only talking about the destination location; how one needs to get to is still wide open.

        And I firmly agree with you that it is in a location where it won’t be discovered by accident.

        • My view is that the blaze and treasure is essentially one location; that the treasure is within 20 feet of the blaze. So, I believe that cold, brace, and in the wood describes the blaze/treasure site. What I am looking for is relatively hidden place, in the trees, adjacent to a creek that carries cold mountain runoff water, and that is most easily accessible by wading across the creek.

          • You look for a small source of cold water that descends the mountain to the creek, sorry my question has already walked on the river, or boat ride

        • You guys have me shaking my head yes and no at the same time. Weather right or wrong I think a person must look at it from all angles in order for it to balance out.

  49. On Jenny Kile’s site, under Forrest Fenn Treasure Facts, she has the statement:

    “The treasure is not on top of a mountain…… (but may be close to the top)”

    but she does not indicate the source of this information. It’s not hard to find a Fenn quote about the treasure not being on top of a mountain. What I’m interested in Forrest’s original quote that covers Jenny’s parenthetical remark — because if it’s anything close to what Jenny has written above, it’s a huge hint IMO.

    • Those were Forrest exact words. I just watched the video yesterday. He said it may be close to the top.the video is on YouTube,it’s about 40 minutes long.i will look it up.

      • Zap, what this response about “near a mountain top” suggests Imo is that this elevation of the subject mountain peak may not be very tall, because the TC is over 5,000 and under 10,200 conclusion, at max perhaps 10, 700 ft peak, so that could put some loftier Peaks out of focus. Just sayin.


        • My pleasure — and my thanks to Alsetenash for letting me know which video the Q&A came from, and to Toby for posting it on YouTube.

  50. This is my take on the hidey spot. Forrest said “Nobody is going to accidentally stumble on that treasure chest”. In addition, he has commented that the chest is wet (although it’s not under water). And, the poem directs you to “look down” at the blaze, your quest to cease. Taking these three things into account, I believe the chest is in a hole. Being underground (but not buried), it can’t be stumbled over (because it is not at ground level), it is wet (because it is naturally damp underground), and you would have to look down to see it.

    • I think that you have thought it out well. All you have to do now, is find that ilusive spot. Good luck to Ya’ JDA

    • Tom B

      I agree with your ideas here. If my solve is correct, and my blaze is THE blaze, your thought about it being in a hole might apply. Mine would be a natural rock formation creating a hole in front of the blaze. Great thinking!

    • I finally got around to reading “Too Far to Walk” this morning. I was intrigued by Forrest’s description of the buried jar he discovered in the San Lazaro Pueblo covered with a flagstone. Could this have been a source of inspiration?

      • “Source of inspiration”? Not sure. Was he actually describing how Indulgence is “Entombed”? I think that he might have been describing how she in interred, buried or entombed – along with his post on “Graveyard Logic” – It makes a bit of sense – at least to me. JDA

    • Tom, does your “take on the hidey spot” mean that a searcher should literally look down AT the blaze (to see it
      — from above, that is)?

      My “take” is that when a BOTG searcher has FOUND the blaze (that is, SEEN it with his/her own eyes), the
      searcher should look down . . . regardless of whether
      the blaze is at a lower or higher elevation than the

      In any case, I very strongly believe that the challenging
      part of all this is to (both at the same time) SEE and
      RECOGNIZE the blaze for what it is. Not easy for most
      searchers, in my opinion.

      • guys – “blaze” appears in the poem region that has been regarded as disconnected on various threads, and I concur, lines 1-2 of stanza 4 are more stand alone than previous lines. OK, so we get to blaze and look down, but from where. I read recent posts as if a searcher was rounding a corner when boom, up jumped the devil…an ‘obvious’ petroglyph within a narrow angle of view, so lucky searcher need only look down for hidey. These posts have searcher looking down while looking AT blaze (facing blaze), but maybe it’s look down from blaze (back to blaze) due to an inclined approach. Then there’s the “quickly” qualifier ??? as if searchers will miss hidey by looking…slowly down.

        • Matt, that’s very observant of you . . . about the
          word “quickly”. I think it’s an important word,
          and I suggest we all look it up in a dictionary.

          The above is my opinion. Yours may differ.

          • Whoa tighterfocus, I never looked that word up (low on foodchain) but kudos for the heads up! I think you just nixed the ‘disconnect’ between lines 1 & 2 of stanza 4. It appears that the right dictionary is on par the right map…

        • My spin on hidey is a wild composite of various factors. My major conflict was long term cache vs access, and this I resolved via FF himself…flying low thru canyons to find unknown artifact sites: visible from ‘above’, but not from below. So here’s my spin:

          (1) Blaze – in close proximity, but hidey likely further away than most think. Blaze may include specific viewing attributes towards hidey such as range marker feature/s (google nautical range marker if unfamiliar) that may be self evident when BOTG.

          (2) Hidey – most likely a rock cairn of some type, probably enclosing an otherwise natural recess. In this manner, TC is hidden vs buried, ‘gloves’ for rocks, no ‘large’ rocks, ‘wet’ from melting snowfall, etc.

          (3) discovery – I think blaze has inclined approach below it similar cliff base (add waterfall if desired). When at proper viewing spot (whatever that is/means) the searcher should look down towards lower elevation (looking opposite blaze) and find cairn hidey, probably on/near top of small irregular feature in landscape…I’m thinking small ‘hill’ only visible from viewing spot, otherwise unseen from lower elevations due to trees surrounding ‘hill’.

          (4) issues – (a) can a 3 yr old still walk to it (b) and the disabled wheelchair guy with help (c) yet, non searchers not stumble upon hidey ???

          Oddly, I can only conclude (1) blaze must somehow relate to some type of natural feature that “distracts” people – searchers and civies (2) no shortage of visitors in area (3) abundance of people keeps large animals away – various upsides to this

          And so I ponder…”Forrest Fenn, did you really do that?” I think hidey location would shock most searchers, and I doubt exact location will ever be revealed for several reasons, tho I hope any lucky searcher at least tells us the lucky state.

  51. All the words in the poem are important. Forrest said it took him 15 years to write it. He also said to read through the poem over and over. Every line means something. Significants is only evident if you listen. It’s difficult to find a good listener. Listen to every word. Written and spoken. IMO

  52. So hear me all and listen good…

    The ATF “wet” comment has me in tight focus, since IMO, there’s only 2 natural ways TC could be wet mid summer when not “under water”: (1) geyser spray (2) waterfall spray. Now, if we eliminate geysers due to low frequency of occurrence (mainly YNP) then we’re left with only waterfalls (no rocket science req’d).

    I can’t think of a better comment that FF might have regret saying (wet trumps pinyon, big time). What say ye???

    • Sorry Matt…you have limited your interpretation of “wet”.

      – rain burst will make the chest wet
      – spray or water droplets that hit a rock by the chest could land upon the chest, thus making it wet.
      – spring melting will cause snow to become water, then will move into a river or creek, and possibly touching the chest if located close to the creek or river bank.
      – Dew could cause the chest to be wet

      There are a few more, and I think I also touched on this topic in a blog somewhere in the hoD.

      Good luck.

      • Here’s the 2016 ‘followup’ wet ATF:

        Mr. Fenn,

        In your interview with New Mexico True Stories, you mentioned that you know that the treasure is wet. I checked out the date of that interview and it looks like you said that in a February, which could mean that you knew that it had snowed or rained at the site of the treasure chest, or simply because of higher water.

        Now we are in mid-summer, and if we assume that no storms have passed through recently, would you know that the treasure is wet now? ~Thanks, B

        Yes B, physics tells me the treasure is wet. f

        “I don’t think so, Tim.” Note mid summer and no recent storms premise. And as for dew, do you mean condensation from daily solar cycle mid summer? And since FF was thinking extremely long term, I doubt he missed any ‘flood plane’ issues.

        So, fess up Tim, do you think wet=waterfall?
        Yes, no, maybe or no comment (real simple).

        • Hi Matt….thanks for responding.

          You asked…
          “do you think wet=waterfall?
          Yes, no, maybe or no comment (real simple)”

          No I don’t. I think when he mentions that the TC is wet, he refers to physics – and the physics of water….and how water can form upon something….or amywhete it can be.

          Physics is not exclusive to one area or region.

          I’m not sure if that answered your question, but “the TC is wet” is just way too vague of a statement to make to conclude it is connected to a waterfall.

          Good luck to you.

        • Matt – i abso agree with Tim on most counts, (esp his “melting snow” theory) but admittedly not his Dew theory, given that “morning due” doesn’t normally affect forested ground ..esp directly under the canopy of trees.

          so, are you suggesting that a “waterfall” is crucial for any particular reason, apart from the rainbow effect, or “water high”?

          ..yes? no? maybe? ..a “real simple” will suffice

          • G’day Middle Earth – haven’t seen you onsite lately…been on holiday chasing ‘roos while hoping Radagast the Brown will offer up hoB ? Or just the Dingo ate your baby…

            A waterfall may be involved, but I’ve always imagined hidey as an ‘above’ ground cairn, so TC is likely wet during each snow melt.

            I started studying thermodynamics while still in high school (during the first green movement) and still in energy research, so no stranger to dew point/s, etc. I also learned to navigate the old way (pre GPS) so, no stranger to sextant, cartography, etc. Yikes, time flies!

          • G’day Top-Secret Ozzie Fan 😛

            hate to burst ya bubble, but ya got the wrong continent mate, albeit i travelled both AU coasts extensively in the past, and got the scars to prove it – didn’t see any dingos tho, or Cassowaries thankfully 🙂

            yep, i was also lucky enough to learn nav from an ex-SAS instructor here, but def not a pro on the sextant/charts etc, so respect for your knowledge in that arena
            ..darn that clever Ozzie Columbus guy!! 🙁

            coincidentally, i leased Radagast (and his giant rabbit) to Seeker a long time ago fyi,
            (haven’t heard from either lately – go figure 🙂 )

            ..btw, what’s ‘time’ again? sorta sounds serious or something..

            ( ..hopefully it’s not viral yet!! 🙁 )

          • ..and yep, i’m wisely guessing if you can realistically spy the TC from 12ft away, it def ain’t buried ..unless ya Super-Man 🙂

          • and while you’re on the subject of therm.dynamics – what’s your honest interp of the stonemasonry at ancient sites re: Cusco , M.Picchu, (big list) etc?

            ..any theories?

          • Hi CH….hehe…I was going no one would notice my typo.

            As for “under a canopy of trees”…we don’t know if the chest is in a location like that or not, although…if we extract “in the wood” from the poem, to help us in finding that final location….then a small group of trees would apply.

            But right now, I’m not so sure that we can make the conclusion that the TC is actually under any trees.

            Good luck…and good post,

    • From “Forrest Gets Mail From a Middle School Class”: “You guys seem to be hung up on waterfalls. Don’t try to change my poem to fit your ideas.”

      • Zap – good catch, I know your FF quote, but ATF remains as if frozen in time. So, something ain’t Kosher…again.

        (1) “You guys seem to be hung up on waterfalls. Don’t try to change my poem to fit your ideas.” No doubt, it’s easy to get hung up on waterfalls, chase or not. However, I fail to see how waterfalls change the poem when “water high” could be a waterfall.

        (2) If ATF “wet” comment is valid (ie true) than I think waterfall is the only natural conclusion. How else could TC be wet mid summer if TC is “not under water” ?

        (3) FF added “not under water” to ATF recently as a safety point after second death, and only then did this dichotomy arise. I’d bet that without this death, FF never would have added this ATF, and many would still have some type of under water solve.

        I think wet=waterfall, anyone else?

        • I don’t think there are any waterfalls within
          a mile of the TC.

          FF knows a lot about children, and would not want a small child (like a 3-year-old girl) to be in any significant danger while hiking with her parents, looking for the TC. So he
          didn’t hide it in a place that is unusually
          dangerous to hike in. (Of course, one can trip and fall almost anywhere.)

          The above is my opinion.

        • Water high could simply mean that after you turn and go up your creek, the water is high ahead of you. It has to be higher as you hike up the creek (if that basic assumption of up your creek is correct). The TC being wet could just be from the occasional rain coming down in the area where it is hidden. No waterfall need to be there. IMO

        • Matt brown,

          fenn~ “How can anything be in the Rocky Mountains and not be wet,” he said. “Even if it were buried six feet deep, it would still be wet. That’s not a real clue.”

          Not a real clue…! { wet not a clue, or buried? imo, both }

          Q&A [in part] “…Although I am not ready to say the treasure is not in water, I certainly didn’t want moisture to enter the jar.”

          *”not under water” {well, he finally had to say it}

          This video is not available now, or it just won’t play for me…
          “…you won’t have to… If you think you know where it is, you don’t have to dig around, you don’t need to disturb anything.”
          {yet, folks still tell us they are digging}

          Q: Does the book give me any more information than I would get from the poem?
          A: “There are some subtle hints in the text of the book that will help you with the clues.  The poem will take you to the chest but the book by itself won’t.” f
          { the man said ‘in the text’ and others say clues in the illustrations. Go figure. }

          Q- “You have said some things in scrapbook entries that seem too bizarre to be true, like the fact that you keep your jeans on when you shower.  Are you at times just pulling people’s legs?”
          FF: “Yes, I didn’t think that comment would fool many people. I was trying to make a point.”
          { imo, fenn seems to make lots of *points, and a lot of folks ignore them or do see them or force them as clues }.

          Q- “People have become fixated on you telling them to bring a sandwich and a flashlight.  Are they just wasting their time focusing on these things as clues?”
          FF: “They certainly are not clues.”

          Certainly not clues! {lol, and still some have solves that require a snack and a flashlight}

          fenn ~“I’ve said things people think are clues.”
          It’s not always easy to understand some of fenn’s ATF. Some times it might take months or years for some comments to become factual, or just to make a point… and still folks want to twist the informational statements to make their solve workable.

          If I have learned one thing about the ‘challenge’… its having patience… and reading very carefully without bias before assuming ‘it has to be’

          Matt ~”How else could TC be wet mid summer if TC is “not under water” ?”

          Well, in this case… I refer to the first statement… ‘How can anything be in the Rocky Mountains and not be wet,’ Physics tell us it is.

          • Yes Seeker…folks are still digging holes AND talking about holes with stone covers, and rock cairns as plausible hideys. But…one would have to disturb these to retrieve the treasure…I think.

    • IMO you underestimate nature. I have seen the weather change instantly. To end the quest, you must do as F says, start at the beginning. Begin it where warm waters halt. Think about this for a great while before you jump to the hiding spot.

      • The mechanic, you don’t write like Bronson at all.
        You even used the “j” word. Hee hee!

        I, for one, appreciate how clever you are; maybe
        I’m the only one who truly understands and
        appreciates it to such a degree.

        Oh . . . this is supposed to be about the treasure hunt. So here’s something related to it. Someone once mentioned that their favorite ice cream is “rocky road”. This, in my opinion, relates to the

        I don’t think I’ve ever been asked how I like my
        eggs. I don’t like them “over easy”. I like them
        “difficult, but not impossible”. Also deviled. Hah!

        The above is my opinion. Are we having fun yet?

  53. Matt, let’s talk about wet.

    If I let ONE DROP of water fall onto something HUGE, guess what?

    Unless the HUGE thing is hydrophobic (i.e., coated with wax or teflon),
    that ONE DROP of water will wet the HUGE thing. Even if it’s the size
    of the Pentagon building in Washington, D.C.

    A bronze box resting on the ground almost anywhere on earth will have
    some condensation on the bottom. Ta-da! It’s wet! Especially in the
    morning where the TC is. Do you know what time of day it was there,
    at the time FF made his statement? I sure don’t.

    FF’s comment about the TC being wet isn’t helpful. He does try to
    fool people, though, while making true statements. Please don’t
    under-estimate him. He’s a self-made multimillionaire, and it’s largely
    because he’s more clever than most people.

    And here’s another way something not near a waterfall can be wet.
    The TC could be sitting on a grassy marshy area that has shallow
    water year-round. When the creek feeding this marsh provides a big
    flow of water, the marsh effectively widens, without getting much
    deeper . . . because the land is almost totally flat in that area. The
    water depth in that marsh could vary from about 1/4″ to about 2″. The
    TC wouldn’t be (generally) considered to be “under water” if it is not
    totally submerged, although one might argue about this definition.

    Anyway, I wouldn’t worry too much about it. It’s not crucial to the correctness of a solve. Work on the poem, and use mapquest and google earth. And read TTOTC a bunch of times again. Read the
    poem until you can recite it from memory (even if the punctuation is
    a bit vague). And fer gosh sakes, use a dictionary to look up words
    that you thought or think you already know very well. I did this, and
    it helped. My 7 years of college didn’t teach me EVERYTHING.

    And remember that most people posting on these blogs aren’t ever
    going to correctly solve the poem, so take what these folks say for
    what you think it’s all worth, okay? Including what I say. Hee hee.

    The above is my opinion.

    • Wait a minute. You mean no one is going to tell me where the TC is? Than your saying this is just a social site that is just for the enjoyment of people with a common interest? And your saying not to rely on someone else’s solve? Well I guess it’s time to get off the couch and out from behind my computer, and go check things out. Now where do I start? Oh, that’s right, where warm waters halt. I’ll be right back. IMO

      • The mechanic, I loved you in that movie “Charles

        Just kidding. I realize that many folks put more
        emphasis in socializing on some of these forums,
        instead of discussing the treasure hunt. I try to stay on the topic of the hunt (I said “try”).

        Here’s something about it:

        The actual hidey space, in my opinion, is not quite
        as beautiful as a very nearby place that I recently
        thought was the hidey space. The beauty brought
        tears to my eyes. (That last sentence should make
        FF a bit nervous.) But it’s all gorgeous and very
        spectacular visually. And it all ties in so well with
        the poem — and with Forrest’s writings and his
        life. I am very, very impressed.

        Good luck to you in solving and searching. Please
        don’t give up too easily.

        The above is my opinion.

        • Tighter focus, I am far from giving up. As a matter of fact, just the opposite. I am anxious to get out again, but somehow real life gets in the way. I have a hunch about the location, just like everyone does. I’ve seen some very beautiful landscapes and met some wonderful people. I enjoy the chase. Hope my solve for the hidey space is accurate. If it isn’t, I will regroup and try again. Good fortune to you and to all seekers. IMO

  54. I wonder if FF has made a kind of gravestone, similar to what he saw in Vietnam where the french soldiers were buried, on the ground, probably largely obscured by vegetation and grass. TC hidden below. Large enough for him, too. He does know how to work with metal. Just my random thoughts for today.

      • I think he said not associated with a man made structure. Which i take to mean a building of some sort but would not include a tombstone. Thats how I see it anyway.

    • The thought crossed my mind as well, Sean. But then I thought about 80-year-old Forrest’s 2 trips from his car in one afternoon with at least 20 lbs. of load in his pack already. I doubt that he would also carry a marker of significant weight with him. But perhaps he brought a tool with him to make a mark of some sort on a stone already at the hidey spot?

      • If such a marker is to be found, remember that this trip to secret Indulgence was probably not the only time Forrest had made this trip. Forrest could have visited this spot many times, and did to the site, whatever he wanted to do, in preparation of secreting Indulgence. Just a thought – JDA

        • That’s a good point too, JDA. It’s a neat idea to picture Forrest hiding his treasure as an old man beneath a marking/monument of some sort that he might have made/left as a kid.

      • Now that I think about it, he never said he didn’t make a third trip with a marker. I believe he just said it took two trips for the TC itself.

        • Sean, one trip carrying the TC itself. One
          carrying the contents.

          I think FF parked at a place that is very near
          the hidey spot.

          Even though people tend to paint FF as an eighty-year-old with the body of a young man, I don’t think that FF walked very far carrying the TC on the day that he hid it in the Rockies.

          He’s not an athlete, but he’s more clever than most people know or believe. Details
          of how clever will be forthcoming soon
          after the TC is found.

          The above is my opinion.

          • tighterfocus – so we can prepare for any shock and awe, can you give us any hints as to the nature of your WWWH…spring, creek, river, whatever? As I recall, you’re an engineer, so this shouldn’t be too disabling…

  55. Matt, yes I can.

    And I will.

    “Waters” is a word that indicates plurality.

    But wait ! There’s more !

    “Halt” does not mean “to become cooler”.

    The above is my opinion.

    • And squinting hard with…tighterfocus…”warm” does not relate to temperature??? Dang, the light just burned out in my crystal ball…

      • Warm doesn’t have to be a temperature at all…
        We do have another indicator “Brown” in the poem.

        Example; what’s black and white and red all over? {grand you, this is more a hearing riddle than a reading one} But, most think “read/red” as a color, however, Black and white are not actually ‘colors’… to solve the riddle, we need to understand that… so, ‘red’ is actually ‘read’… oh, it’s a newspaper.

        So we have brown, and capitalized.
        Could it be that brown/Brown has two usages?
        A color and a ‘title’? If so, can warm waters [ which can’t possibly be calculated in degrees with an exact temp. ] be of a color and a ‘given ‘title’ or name’?

        Not unlike cold, to have a usage; dark or night, an feeling or emotion, etc. Warm, to fenn could mean [his definition] ; comfortable, in the poem… how do you measure comfortable in degrees?
        I mean, the man is/was an ‘art’ dealer, right?

        • Hi Seeker.

          Those are all good points of reference. Especially, when you bring in “an art dealer” perspective.

          Being an art lover myself – all kinds – pottery, oils, watercolors, animation, and good old comic books…I also see a “wider view” of things, because that is what the artist wants others to do.

          Hmm…sounds sort of like that architect who designs a building for others to appreciate.

          Perception is interpretation, and that is something IMO – FG included in his construction of words and phrases.


      • Matt, “warm” IS temperature-related, in the context
        of the poem.

        Maybe you should re-read my above message . . .
        it mentioned the word “halt”.

        The above is my opinion.

        • Q~What does “warm” mean to you?
          A~ It means being comfortable.

          How do you measure comfortable water -?- and give it a location [ a single location as a clue ].
          I’m not saying wwwh can’t be warm waters.. I’m saying the context of the poem may refer to a place by other indicators in the poem, that warm could be explained as I posted above… a non-temp related possibility.

          Comfortable; being in a state of physical or mental comfort, pleasant, relax, happy, contented…
          Warm colors; are often said to be hues from red through yellow, browns and tans…

          • Seeker – OUTSTANDING!!!

            Now, with a tad more deep thinking, you’ll have an amusing WWWH that some onlist have voiced, but blown off just as quickly (eyes roll).

            Think about it…how could lil Indy ever get close to WWWH unless it’s an unique location. Most guys pure over GE searching for a ‘specific’ location where specific is merely one among many…as in a ‘specific’ hot spring, convergence, etc. Then, they transform their ‘specific’ location into an ‘unique’ location by virtue of poem read. No way, Jose…my WWWH is ‘unique’ from the get-go. Hang in there Seeker!

          • Hi al….

            …and even after years of many dismissing that WWWH could be a place where a sink or tub is, you still dance around accepting it.

            Why? Too many, huh? Not enough information to help eliminate locations? Tough, huh?

            “Difficult, but not impossible”, tells me closer to impossible, than easy.


          • Seeks – i confess to being (extremely) simple-minded, but “ask an honest (direct) question, get an honest (un-TC related) answer” imho

            i.e: i don’t personally interp “comfortable” as being some mystery hint, but rather an honest answer to a simply random question – “chefs privilege” so to speak

  56. My opinion. Many searchers will be “shocked” when the treasure is found and it is revealed that “warm waters” refers to water that is warm to the touch, and “halt” means to stop moving. You don’t need to have complicated or obscure word meanings in order to have a difficult puzzle to solve. The difficulty is in deducing where the small area is (within the vast area of the Rocky Mountains) that contains the locations referenced in the poem. All my opinion and yet to be proven.

    • Tom ~ “The difficulty is in deducing where the small area is (within the vast area of the Rocky Mountains) that contains the locations referenced in the poem.”
      How do you do just that if, warm only means a temperature [to the touch] and halt only means no movement?

      Seriously… the human body is approx. 98 degrees. I would assume that is the best hunch for warm to the touch… how do you find a single location from ‘a touch’ while looking on a map/GE or the book as references?

      • The clues taken as a whole point you to the area to search, if I am correct. Then, within that relatively small search area, you begin your journey at a hot or warm springs. No need for fishing regulations. No need to know where the inland seas were. No need for “coordinates” from a book. Again, my views, yet to be proven.

      • Think of the Rocky Mountains as a jigsaw puzzle and we are looking for one piece of the puzzle, which is where our treasure map is. What I found most helpful in the poem to help locate this piece was “treasures new and old” and “home of Brown”. Then, I also considered what has been important to Forrest (based on his books and interviews).

        • Tom…good points worth thinking about, but Fenn has indicated that the poem is the treasure map. Marrying the “clues” in the poem to a “good” map(of a particular place in the Rockies) is going to win the prize for sure. Your comment about “new and old” made me think of an alternative definition of “old”. Something “old” can also mean something “familiar”. I agree that HOB ties in to previous clues to confirm the “correct” wwwh. I also agree that fishing regulations are not on the table or coordinates either.
          Overall, I like your approach, as it seems to be more simple and less convoluted. Cleverness…and simple.

          • Ken
            think of old and new as that bridge that forrest fenn jumped as a child in texas, since that bridge, besides being old, its classification is obsolete, now notice that it became viable to be used after some years by the engineers, this I saw in clipping your ff’s books, plus what puzzles me is some things that they say about tall, heavy and load, so be wise and ride my puzzle and discover the location of the real treasure location and my fire relation scrapbook 83 in dall among others, an image says a lot and its history too.
            maybe I do not think much more what it means (waters) in the verb and synonyms, maybe I should use in the sub

          • rhonny – i like your concept of “riches new and old” being an iconic (human and/or geo) structure, rather than lumps of glittering gold tbh – and personally feel that approaching the first stanza with an open-mind is the key to defining WWWH

            but does “Austronesian” suggest an Austria/Polynesia heritage ..or are ya just pretending NOT to be Australian??

            ( c’mon now honest!! 🙂 )

    • I agree Tom B. My experience in working my solutions to each of the clues is that I find each clue evaluates as true under more than one line of reasoning. In other words, where each of those lines cross, I get a location. Each of the locations strung together form an itinerary to the treasure.

      In the words of Mr. Fenn: “The treasure is out there waiting for the person who can make all the lines cross in the right spot.”


    • Tom, I like your way of thinking. I suggest you work on
      the solve, rather than spending too much time reading what others post on these forums. It’s not likely to help you.

      You’d better stay focused on your solve, because the TC is likely to be found next summer . . . this is all my opinion.

        • Santiago – I think tighterfocus is suggesting he’ll be BOTG sometime during the summer 2018. No worries here…anyone eating this chase for a couple years (or so) is less likely than newbies to find TC – IMO – due to ATF array since summer 2016 (especially earlier this year) which will tend to cross pollute vs cross pollinate most thinking.

          • Matt,
            Surprise, I disagree! However, I also agree.

            First, I agree with a more general view of your “cross pollute, vs cross pollinate” comment. IMO, there’s no cross pollution involved in using ATF (after the fact?) statements from Forrest to aid in solving the poem – IMO, it’s just pure pollution. I’m not saying F’s comments are not valuable, but I don’t believe they’re of any value in trying to first solve the poem and, IMO, are very detrimental to solving the poem at all.

            IMO, it’s best to work to solve the poem in a vacuum that consists of only the searcher, the poem, a good topo map, and GE. Once a solid solution that encompasses the entire poem is derived, then, if the searcher feels compelled, research to heart’s content F’s ATF comments and see if any are found that support the solution. My guess is many will be found, and this is precisely the problem with using them before, or while, deriving a solution.

            Second, I disagree with your comment regarding newbie vs experienced searcher and likelihood of “correct solve” (F’s term). My non-Chase experience has taught me that the more time I’ve studied or worked in a particular field or with a particular person or challenge, the more familiar I become with the field, person, or challenge, and the more likely I am to be successful in/with that field, person, or challenge. IMO, the correct solve will come from a searcher who is most successful at seeing and thinking like Forrest, and this is where, IMO, all of his comments come into play.

            So, FWIW (zero because I don’t have the chest), just like all the other comments on this and all other related blogs.

            Best of luck in your quest.

          • Hi Joe…you wrote…

            “IMO, the correct solve will come from a searcher who is most successful at seeing and thinking like Forrest, and this is where, IMO, all of his comments come into play.”

            I couldn’t agree more.

            Be the chest….and if you care to try….venture a go at ‘remote viewing’….*winks*….


            Good luck!

          • Matt Brown,
            So, a newbie with no information about [ for example ]. wwwh is not a dam has a better chance than someone who’s been around that knows of this comment? [ a comment that wasn’t displayed by a national media group, but on the blogs ].
            The chest is not hidden in or near a structure?
            Many of fenn’s comments are found on the blogs through inquires, personal videos posted, emails etc. Statements that a newbie may not know of that could save many hours and failed searches because [ as many in the beginning of the challenge just knew wwwh was a dam, or the chest has to be in water, or its’ up a tree or in a graveyard or in a mine, tunnel or cave… and the list goes on.

            While fresh eyes are good to have, and I agree that some get stuck on force fitting clues to an area they just like or hope the chest to be at… a newbie will more than likely go through all the same mistakes prior searcher have.

            IMO, the poem is set up for failure at first [ its not what I say, it’s what I you think I said, idea process ]. It will take dedication to solve the poem… the hope is… in the end, the solve will be a complex to simplistic solution. Ending with… what took me so long?

            I mean, we have had relatively new searcher [ only a year or two into the chase ] who deciphered, indicated, figured out the first two clues, told fenn where they are searching and their process, yet they all didn’t seem to know. We have many who been on site and walked by the remaining clues and the chest and still did not know how close they were, or gave fenn a correct order of clues beyond the first two clues. [ many were newbies themselves, in the very early stages of the challenge { 2012 } ].

            As of recent… some many have the first four clues [ that is the only info we have to date on that comment ]. and possibly not know they do…

            IF for any other reasoning… newbies should be listening very carefully to all the ‘old time treasure hunter’ so they don’t make the same mistakes…

          • Very well said Seeker. Good advice for all. I would just add my advice, which is to be careful when making assumptions about any of Fenn’s statements that are not definitive.

        • Santiago, yes I did. I was wrong (even though my solve took me within a few hundred feet of the TC).

          At the time, I thought FF was brilliant, in
          being the “architect” of the poem.

          Since then, I have realized that “brilliant” is quite an understatement!

          I have learned more about the solve since then. It involves more complexity than I
          had earlier thought.

          And yeah . . . I should be more humble.

          The above is my opinion.

          • Tighterfocus,
            Good for you getting so close. I’m sure it will be there waiting for you next summer.
            Good luck!

          • Hi Seeker – You mention new searchers might think wwwh is “a dam, or the chest has to be in water, or its’ up a tree or in a graveyard or in a mine, tunnel or cave”. I know the chest is NOT associated with these places, but I haven’t found anything definitive about it NOT being in a tree. Do we know that for sure? I have been in the chase for 2 years and have made a few searches in Wyoming. I like to do homework myself and don’t look to cut corners but I haven’t seen a “not in a tree” statement. Do you know that is a 100% certainty, that it’s not in a tree?

          • Warlock;

            Haven’t heard from you in a spell. Welcome back. I can not give you a quote, but I will ask you a common sense question – Do you think that a tree would pass the 1000 year test? Would a tree, big enough to hold a 42 lb. chest seven years ago live long enough to still hide it 1000 years from now? I do not think so. Just common sense. Fire could destroy it. It could be toppled over by winds. A flood could wash it down a bog stream or river. An earthquake could topple it.

            As it grew, it would possibly take it out of reach. I just see nothing but negatives to the prospect of it being in a tree, Just my opinion – JDA

          • P.S. Have you ever seen a tree grow around a fence? If Indulgence were placed in the fork of a tree limb and the trunk, in a few short years, you couldn’t get indulgence out – the tree will have grown around it. You would have to cut the limb off, and then do surgery on the trunk to free Indulgence. If it were placed in the “already exposed” roots of a tree, further erosion probably would have washed it downstream by now. Sorry, I just can’t climb that tree – JDA

          • LOL warlock,

            If you take the context of the wording prior… ‘…many in the beginning of the challenge just knew…’
            The comment was about, what searcher thought they ‘knew’ as facts.
            I could have added some other thoughts searchers had, such as, An alien egg waiting to hatch and steal the soul of the finder… I guess that’s still possible as well, seeing fenn never Da Nile it.

            I’ll retract ‘up a tree’ … to keep the others misconceptions fenn personally commented on, intact.

          • JD. I agree that common sense can rule out the treasure being in a tree, and the same reasoning says that the blaze is not a tree either.

          • JDA – I agree “in a tree” does not pass the test. I just wasn’t sure if Forrest had ruled it out. Thanks, Seeker. I see what you are saying. People are sure of a lot of things, even though some have been 100% eliminated.

      • Tighterfocus. I appreciate the compliment. I developed a complete solve in March. Since that time, I have been challenging my reasoning with everything I can find that Forrest has said. I’ve also been presenting some ideas on this forum and again challenging my reasoning based on opposing ideas. Over these past few months, my confidence in my solve has only become stronger and it’s time to put it to the test.

  57. Joe. You said: “IMO, it’s best to work to solve the poem in a vacuum that consists of only the searcher, the poem, a good topo map, and GE. Once a solid solution that encompasses the entire poem is derived, then, if the searcher feels compelled, research to heart’s content F’s ATF comments and see if any are found that support the solution.”

    That is the exact advice I would give a searcher as well. Also, I would advise to stay away from “group think”. Go with your own clue interpretations.

    • Hi Tom B.

      I gotta disagree with “group thinking”, just because I know team thinking is successful In many applications.

      If you are familiar with “lean manufacturing” or “Six Sigma” tactics, then you would agree as well.

      Just saying….IMO.

      Good luck to you.

      • Tim
        The flaw is that you don’t know who is truthful, lying to misdirect, ignorant, a just manipulating just.

        • …..of course those traits exist, but up front and before you start, set explicit rules to the team so those types of negativity are not included.

          Trust is also a relevant attribute one must place on the table, if the team is to be successful.

          If you have troubles with the orhanization of a team, then someone on that list is probably more selfish than you.

          Your team would never work. There would be too much bias and not enough compromise.

          Those would be problem areas of team building.

          Good luck.

      • Tim: Six-sigma does not apply here. There is no way to measure process improvement. When you cannot measure process in an unbiased way, the “stronger” voices will push out the weaker, even though the stronger may be wrong. Better to go with your individual inclinations unless/until you are not satisfied with the progress.

        • I’ll disagree, because the treasure hunt is a process and techniques to simplify can be applied.

          Thanks again for responding.


    • Yeah, Tom, I agree. When it comes to The Chase: vacuum good, group-think bad. Hmmm, I think Tarzan said something like that once…


    • Tom and Joe, I agree with both of you (based only on Tom’s
      posting of September 24 at 10:22 am).

    • well guys – reality check…

      Such extreme vacuum devoid of all ATF comments would have everyone (still) bickering over what is clue #1. Since we now know wwwh is clue 1, this reduces the domino effect of later ambiguities, but doesn’t eliminate the later ambiguities.

      In reviewing past threads recently, I noticed most guys waaaay off base until earlier this year. If you want some chuckles, simply go back to summer 2016 on common threads, then go back further.

      I’m leery of group think also, but ok when taken as ideas vs conclusions (similar default here). Meanwhile, TomB recently said he limits himself to ATF comments that are (paraphrasing) simple, short statements, and I agree. I don’t need anymore fuzzy stuff.

      • Matt, generalizing about “everyone” indicates — or at least implies — lack of thinking/communicating ability.

        A correct solution of the poem will require a good amount of thinking ability.

        I genuinely wish you good luck in your solving/searching.

        The above is my opinion.

  58. Tim,
    You wrote:
    Be the chest….and if you care to try….venture a go at ‘remote viewing’….*winks*….

    Good luck!”
    Well, probably not quite what I had in mind when “seeing and thinking like Forrest”, but thanks for the link. I’ll do a little reading on that – first pass seems sorta like one of those “Men Who Stare at Goats” (???) projects… 🙂

    Good Luck in your Chase.

  59. read the blogs for fun- is that what we are all doing? I’m interested in the hidey spot, but when I read it it, it deteriorates to think like Fenn, use a process, group think, etc. what—

    ok, f said that I think the chest is wet, which would imply that perhaps it wasn’t hidden in a wet spot. what spot would be dry and then wet at a later date.(by physics)
    To solve clues it seems to me that we must have some assurance that our suppositions have confirmations.
    What if in the wood refers to an high drainage wash, that only drains when rain-snow-spring flow occurs? does anything think that scenario is plausible?
    Such a wash is filled with large rocks (10″) that have been exposed naturally. Could this be where the chest is hidden? normally dry, but wet quite often. opinions?

    • emmett;

      Forrest did NOT say that he thinks the chest is wet. Leading to your next statement: “which would imply that perhaps it wasn’t hidden in a wet spot. what spot would be dry and then wet at a later date.(by physics)”

      Here is one of Forrest’s quotes: “”If I was standing where the treasure chest is, I’d see trees, I’d see mountains, I’d see animals. I’d smell wonderful smells of pine needles, or pinyon nuts, sagebrush—and I know the treasure chest is wet. ” Quote – and I KNOW the chest is wet.”

      The next quote (the one relating to physics – “Mr. Fenn,
      In your interview with New Mexico True Stories, you mentioned that you KNOW that the treasure is wet. I checked out the date of that interview and it looks like you said that in a February, which could mean that you knew that it had snowed or rained at the site of the treasure chest, or simply because of higher water.
      Now we are in mid-summer, and if we assume that no storms have passed through recently, would you know that the treasure is wet now? ~Thanks, B
      Yes B, physics tells me the treasure is wet.” f

      So Forrest KNOWS that it is wet – which makes your next statement:which would imply that perhaps it wasn’t hidden in a wet spot. what spot would be dry and then wet at a later date.(by physics) – all wet – doesn’t it?

      You then say, “To solve clues it seems to me that we must have some assurance that our suppositions have confirmations.” Before confirmations, you need to get your suppositions correct, based on proper quotes.

      You then ask for input to a question, “What if in the wood refers to an high drainage wash, that only drains when rain-snow-spring flow occurs? does anything think that scenario is plausible?
      Such a wash is filled with large rocks (10″) that have been exposed naturally. Could this be where the chest is hidden? normally dry, but wet quite often. opinions?

      How does “in the wood” relate to a drainage area filled with large rocks (10″)?

      “No paddle up your creek – maybe
      “Heavy loads” – maybe
      even “Water high (occasionally) – maybe
      but “in the wood” – doesn’t make sense to me.

      But that is just me. You have to figure out what makes sense to you – AFTER you get your suppositions correct – based on correct quotes. JMO – JDA

      • JDA- Are you intentionally obtuse, or are you intolerant of those that have opinions different from your own.
        You provide quotes to prove the treasure is wet now, which certainly we all agrees.
        “Forrest did not say that he thinks the chest is wet.” JDA.
        What he actually said on 8/25/15 was–
        “I know what the question is. I don’t think the earth can hurt it, under the right conditions wind might affect it, It’s probably already wet, and look what fire did to the twin towers.”
        So he said its “probably already wet,” which to me implies that it was not placed in a wet spot.
        Your next criticism of my suppositions, was in the wood. Most of us searchers who have been at this for some time are aware of the possibility that in the wood could refer to a saddle, or a dip in a ridge. This was a common reference to a cowboy who had been on his saddle all day and was said to have been in the wood. Nothing wrong with my suppositions.
        What irritates me is that when I try to get some rational discourse going, you butt in like some kind of super expert, when in fact you are not.
        Perhaps you should follow the maxim –if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything.

        • Emmett;

          If I have hurt your feelings I apologize. I have always felt that the purpose of this blog was to share ideas. If my ideas, or my quoting Forrest, in some way offends you, I apologize. It is obvious to me what what you are seeking is reinforcement of your ideas, not new ones – So, I tell you what I will do, from now on, any post I see from you I will give you an “Atta-boy” and a pat on the back. It appears that you are not interested in someone with a differing opinion.

          So, Here is your “atta-boy” – “You done good emmett” “Nice post” – JMO JDA

          • You have not hurt my feelings.
            I do appreciate your not butting in with ridiculous assertions that have no basis in fact to what was presented.
            atta boy to you.

        • Emmett. I did not know that in the wood could refer to a cowboy in the saddle. Thanks for sharing that.

        • Tom B: if the blaze is “in the wood,” would that make it a Blazing Saddle? 😉

    • I agree emmett.
      From my experience the sediment in a “dry’ creekbed or wash stays wet many months after the runoff has dried up.
      I think a hiding spot in such a place would retain moisture even longer if covered by a rock or rocks as you suggested.


    • Emmett…I wonder often about FFs fascination with frogs. Often, frogs lay their eggs in pools of water that then dry up later in the season. The frog eggs remain moist and viable in normal conditions; perhaps protected by large rocks whose surrounding soils are slower to dry? The following year, with spring rains and run off, semi-permanent pools again fill with water, eggs hatch, then tadpoles and later frogs complete the cycle. I like how you think.

  60. Tom B, you said: I agree that common sense can rule out the treasure being in a tree, and the same reasoning says that the blaze is not a tree either.

    Obviously there are a billion Aspen Trees ablaze and millions of empty logs and tree stumps just waiting for you too TURN OVER OR see inside or under, just look at the Aspens covering the Rockies like golden fleece from north and south, I have a view of that in my Winter Thoughts, article, also view the final cartoon illustration on page 146, Thrill Book, clearly a stump may prove to be the definition of “in the wood” now if we only knew what/why “Brave” precedes it.

    If it is hidden in or under, is it buried or covered with wood in state of decay?

    • TT,
      Not arguing, but curious to the fact that in 100 years [ give or take, and no other means of preserving is introduced, such as, volcanic ash cover {out of anyone’s control} ]. How can “in the wood” be important information, clue, hint if that wood is now nothing more than soil?
      Soil: the upper layer of earth in which plants grow, a black or dark brown material typically consisting of a mixture of organic remains, clay, and rock particles.

      But, if we want to twist “in the wood” a bit [ and in a poetic interpretation ]. Could in the wood refer to soil that refers to; territory, land, domain, dominion, region, country… or home?
      Home of the brave? land of the brave? some place fenn holds in “high regard” and “respect” [fought for]
      I guess these thoughts wouldn’t work if the poem is only stomping from one place to another, and very little connection from one stanza to another or parts of the poem before or after any particular clue…

      It might be me… but I think the poem is completely contiguous as a whole. Then again I might be analyzing and thinking too much for such a straightforward [uncomplicated, easy, undemanding, effortless] reading of the poem.

      How can “in the wood” be important information, clue, hint if that wood will be, nothing more than soil? to the thought, clearly a stump may prove to be the definition of “in the wood”

      • Seeker I don’t necessarily agree, “in the wood” is a very important clue, as it is the last clue that points to the hiding place.

        If a person is used to being in the mountains, which I am, in the wood, means to me a hollow log, a bunch of fallen trees or a wood pile. I believe f, meant in the wood, not the woods. Woods is a forest over a large or small area. Wood in it’s self, takes years to decay even in water. Water may speed up decay. I basically understand in the wood has nothing to do with living trees, but cut down or fallen trees and piles is wood.

        Upright stumps wouldn’t be a good hiding place, concealment would be hard, unless one puts small twigs or pieces of wood or whatever on top, it then becomes UN-natural to it’s surroundings.

        All above is IMO and IMHO.

        • Charlie…one of the best ways to preserve wood is to submerge it in water. Folks salvage old logs worth big bucks from many rivers used over 100 yrs. ago. But that has nothing to do with “in the wood”. good luck

        • Good point CM, I thought about this as well when on a search I found what I thought was a perfect spot. There in the spot was hollowed out stump just big enough for the chest. Inside was pile of chunks of wood so needless to say I spent a few minutes digging out all of the wood. It was worth a shot anyway.

        • Charlie,
          I don’t know if “in the wood” is a clue or even the last… my reference comes from TT post and why I asked the question… if rotting wood is a clue or important information… how can it be true as “wood” a hundred years down the road, or even 50 or less in many cases, and be a “clue” that is no longer around after it’s decade?

          My explanation was attempting to relate “in the wood” with other sections of the poem… I mean, IF “just take the chest and go in peace” is the actual, [after location of the blaze,] the end of the hunt… In the wood shouldn’t be one of the 9 clues, right? But it’s there for some reason… at least fenn stated, ever word was deliberate, and risky to discount them.

          So again, if in the wood is meant as a clue or the ‘hidey’ spot… something else must explain this or relate to it after the “wood” turns to soil. But, we do have petrified wood…

          The again, like others have thought [ self included ] “risky to discount” them may prove that counting something is involved with the poem. fenn also said “…Read the blogs for entertainment, and the poem like you were going to put an X on a map…”

          Is that the hidey place or could it be the beginning, and I’m not say wwwh – that’s the first clue.

        • Charlie, Tom Terrific, Seeker and gang,

          You all have shared some good thoughts, please allow me to share an aspect that I have been turning over in my feeble brain almost since I started over two years ago now: What if the emphasis of the phrase “in the wood” falls on the word the – meaning a particular stand of trees, not just any woods in the world? So the word wood is a substitute word for the proper name. (HOB anyone?) I’m still processing this whole affair, so I do not have the definitive answer, but I’m none too quick to eliminate this as a possibility.

      • Hi Seeker..

        So why not try closing your eyes and try to visualize your last drive through the mountains. Maybe a hike in the woods.

        Anyhow…..Imagine those musings and put them into words. Humble up as you may, but never lose the initial meaning. Some you will keep as they are, because that are already obscure enough to mean something different when written down on paper, and some in a more easier, and yet elusive manner. Some will be so straight forward, and quite obvious, that they get thought of with a meaning of something else and really not associated to the next clue.

        IMO – FF did tbis, because the bits and pieces of a memory forms a larger scope of view when realizing the memory.

        As I have always stuck to…the poem is a “Sunday drive (and hike) in the mountains”.

        It is just to simplified to think otherwise.

        • “I’m not flippant about this. It’s not something somebody is going to be able to do on spring break or a Sunday afternoon picnic. I’m looking a hundred years down the road, maybe a thousand years down the road. People don’t understand that.”

          I’m so glad for you,Tim, that all this is so simplistic. When can we expect pictures of the chest? Are you going to write a book? Will ya tell all how simple it was for you to just take a drive… Ya know, for us folks who “…don’t understand that.”

          If I knew what ya”ll suppose you think ya know… war or famine would not stop me from going. Seriously, it was a lovely summer in the mountains… did ya run out of gas money?

          • Hi Seeker…..I jest in many ways, but am pretty serious about this hunt, as you seen to be too.

            For me it is a lifelong dream to be part of a real life treasure hunt. Have I prepared for this?……

            Not really, but we have been told to keep it simple.

            I can do simple. Even make things simpler when I apply my skills.

            Aren’t you doing just that? FF told us it will be a – “why didn’t I think of that” – type moment when the solution is revealed.

            Why not think like that now, as FF seemed to have done?

            Too many people are literally skipping over the “think like FF” step….completely.

            Why would anyone? He has literally told us his life story (TTotC), what he sees around Indulgence (he described the location’s environment), what he feels (“comfortable” IS a clear term he’s used), in addition to many other things.

            I can understand why someone would discard those “hints”, but IMO – they help with the puzzle solution, in a very vague, yet simple way.

            I’ve said this before Seeker…I’m in this until the end….and yes, if I get to be the lucky one, I expect a whole different life, and hopefully help others along the way. I have a plan of attack outlined and ready to put into action…if that special day arrives. I jest for fun and interaction, and to keep myself motivated. I dream to keep myself motivated. This hunt is motivating in itself. FF has not hated me. You have motivated me.

            You seem to plainly forget…I’m a nobody in the 100k seekers….but I have kept it positive to be a winner, but also kept it simple….because I now believe the answer to difficult questions lie in the simplicity of the answer.

            …and how you get there is to apply techniques that reduce or simplify a previous answer, until it cannot be simplified any longer….lean manufacturing techniques.

            BTW – you of all the bloggers know a lot about me already. I have nothing to hide, but hopefully have helped others with there General solves.

            I’m just another seeker, just like you. But I am thinking outside the box, while keeping focussed with still looking in the box.

            I’m doing what I think FF is doing…..”looking at the universe he created from the outside , but still looking inside”….I’m just not the creator, but a player within that which was created. Aren’t we all?

            Hope that helped answer some things.

            Cheers and good luck to you sir.

        • Tim;

          As Seeker said, when can we see the pictures of you and the chest – IF it is so simple.

          What is keeping you from going? If you can prove to me that it is that simple, I will give you the money to go and retrieve it. If I give you the money, and it turns out to not be as simple as you say it is, you owe us all an apology since you are implying that we are all stupid for having not figured out something so simple. Just sayin’ JDA

          • As the commercial says – Sorry Charlie!

            My team searches for me as I can not do it myself. The last thing they want is to search for someone else – sorry. JDA

          • Sorry Charlie – I misinterpreted your post. NO. I do not sponsor anyone’s solves. I was replying to someone I perceived as a smart asp. JDA

          • When I find the chest.

            Yes, it does take cash for me to go.

            In fact, I’ve calculated that an average 6 day trip for me to go to the location would be just about $1200.00 round trip in a car.

            Two days travel and lodging
            Two days lodging and searching and two days return travel and lodging.

            Add in food and/or camping supplies, you’ll see the trip funds begin to add up.

            I’ve also recently became unemployed, so that is a direct hit to a veteran, as I am.

            I had made an offer out here a while back, but no one 45am with it.

            Life went on.

            So I went out on my own with my team this past summer and will return again for a third time. I.’ve stayed sitting my $3500.00 budget I decided upon dropping into this. I think I’ve done well myself…you and others, seem to think differently. But that is okay…we all are thinking differently.

            I’ve already penciled in June 2018 as a target date for the next trip.

            If successful, you probably will not hear about my find and see any pictures until I tour with the chest.


            And yes, I will write a book, get coins graded by NGC, and after all had been said and done, auction off most of the treasure.

            I’ll probably keep enough of it for future investments of my own.

            Did that help?

            Cheers to you…Good luck!

          • That is untrue JDA. I’ve never said anything of the sort.

            Just because i’ve added in things that others either failed to include initially or didn’t even think of them, doesn’t mean anyone is “stupid”.

            Too me…the only stupid question that there is, is the one that is never asked.

            I’m one to think – if someone thinks something is stupid, they really haven’t looked at the entire situation that involved that “ideal”, before “dismissing” it.

            Good luck JDA.

          • You are welcome “jonr”….

            I want to help, if I can, just to steer people in hopefully a good way.

            I want someone to figure this out, and if it is m…then WHEW-WHEW!!

            I’ll be drinking that night!!


            Stay safe and good luck….I hope I have given you thoughts to ponder.


          • Tim;

            Here are your words: “As I have always stuck to…the poem is a “Sunday drive (and hike) in the mountains”.

            It is just to simplified to think otherwise.”

            How else are we to interpret these words? – – – “The poem is a Sunday drive (and hike) in the mountains – It is just to simplified to think otherwise”.?

            It seems you stated your perspective on the poem pretty clearly – JDA

          • Hi JDA.

            How else are you to interpret them??

            As always…anyway you choose, huh? I can’t dictate your thoughts or perception on what you think is an ending solution. Only you can and an effort to physically look. Exactly what FF intended.

            My version or theory – or whatever you choose to call it (I.e. “general solve”) – is what I have decided upon, based upon all aspects of the hunt, including trying to debunk my own solution.
            I haven’t yet been able to bust it open, so why not stick with it? I know you would do,the same. Until that moment comes, I’ll stick with my plan.

            What I am not seeing, is you trying to debunk things I say, have said, or theorize, but only do so with already answered statements I say.

            That isn’t helping anyone, nor is it debunking things so all can eliminate instances from therir solutions.

            I do….and challenge others to step up if they are truly serious with their effort.

            That is how someone will find this 10″ x 10″ plot of land.

            Cheers and good luck to you sir.

          • Thanks SL….it is but one factor required, if one is to succeed.

            Optimism is a nice opposite to “negativity” or “dismay”.

            Be the chest!


            Good luck to you.

  61. FF has said something about (paraphrasing) turning over a log.
    I suspect that maybe the TC is under a log in a small group of
    trees (wood). Since bears — and possibly other animals — have
    been known to eat other critters (maggots, perhaps?) that live
    under logs, maybe FF was attempting to symbolize something
    like what would happen to his own body as it “returns to the earth”.

    I can imagine that “in the wood”, there might be a (kinda) continuous
    supply of fallen branches — or entire trees — that would tend to
    keep the TC (kinda) hidden for a long time, even if FF didn’t
    bury it.

    I plan to look for the “tarry scant” — a dark slab of rock.

    Good luck, everyone. The preceding has been my opinion.

    • Tighterfocus, research “seek-no-further” tree. Remember the name of his typewriter?
      Reverence for Wood, author…
      roll over a log to see what’s underneath.
      Not buried but hidden, but could become buried over time.
      Home of Brown, centipede.
      All point to it being under a tree/log.
      Now we need to work on your “tarry scant” and move the emphasis on “Marvel gaze”.

  62. I can’t see any way that a tree or log could be a marker of any kind for the treasure. Just too much opportunity for it to be destroyed over the decades. A large group of trees could be involved as this could reasonably be expected to still exist in 100 years if it’s in an area that is very unlikely to be developed. I do believe there are trees in the area of the treasure site.

    • Tom, I agree that a specific tree or log is not a good marker, as it may not last hundreds or thousands of
      years .

      But a small group of trees that exists now could exist
      (even as it “evolves”, with an occasional tree dying,
      and a new one replacing it) hundreds — or thousands
      of years from now. Just like a forest, except smaller,
      right? If the group of trees is small, then the search
      area — if it’s in that “wood” (group of trees) will also be small.

      FF mentioned that the TC could be scorched in a forest
      fire. I can imagine that as an unlikely possibility. Here’s
      why I think it’s unlikely . . . If the hidey spot is not near
      the top of a mountain or hill, but instead is in some kind
      of valley or other low area, then lightning won’t hit that group of trees. And if that group is isolated, then fire
      from elsewhere won’t spread to the group.

      The above is my opinion. Yours may differ.

      • Well you’re right – my opinion differs. The bigger fires burn tens of thousands of acres up hills and down valleys, jump rivers and highways, and burn through pinyon-juniper-sage terrain as readily as through the big beetle-kill tree zones. Check the maps.

        “If your solve is in the desert, get a new solve.” f


  63. The old folks used to say, “God watches over babies and fools.”…….some need it more than others.

    • loco – are you suggesting that old folk neglected to watch over their own babies? ..and that God actually likes politicians?

      hmmm.. def sounds like 🙁

      • Paraphrasing the original quote :

        God protects drunks, fools, children and the United States of America.

      • aay now, ‘obbit…..ya putting words in me mouth!! Wonder where ya learned to do that?

        While I have you on the line, you ever heard of a Gollum who goes by the name of jimmora? Supposedly he hails from below the land down under?

        Gooday to ya, laddie! 🙂

      • top of the morning to ya, loco

        are you implying that our local (under-down-under) RNZ broadcaster is somehow responsible for UCLA’s three game losing streak? ..oh wait – i see what ya did there..

        (jeez.. you’re good!! 🙂 )

  64. In my opinion there are a several hundred people that pass within 500′ of the chest every day at the minimum. On good days that number probably exceedes the 1,000 mark. The hidey spot was so cleverly chosen by Forrest that it will only be discovered by the correct interpretations of each and every clue. Also in my opinion all those that have been within 500′ have actually been much closer but not as close as 200′. These opinions are based solely on what I see.

  65. Has anyone wandered and reasoned that perhaps the hidey space is not near a creek, river, place with a view, or anything that distinct. I know the blaze is something that stands out but for all we know it could be a special rock with some indian drawings on it in the middle of the woods. Even 200′ from a creek that was searched and 500′ from a trail people would normally take. How hard would it be to find then? 1000 years hard?

    • Aaron, the finding isn’t the hard part . . . that’s basically just a trip to the search area plus a bit of hiking and
      looking carefully for the TC. Solving the poem is what FF thought might take thousands of years. But I believe he has changed his mind a bit on how long it will take . . .
      (after the launch of his treasure hunt) . . . My estimate is
      8 years, give or take one year.

      The hidey space IS near a creek and place with a very nice view.

      The above is my opinion.

  66. Seeker, guess what the oldest living thing is on planet earth? A Bristlecone Pine, they can live to be 5,000 years old, some are found in the Rockies, even a nice grove in New Mexico, and Colorado, there is one in Bryce Canyon a confirmation of 4,900 (Prometheus) born 2898 years BC unfortunatly cut down in 1964, to prove global warming theory also (Methuselah) still alive, 4,849 years old, using dendrocronology, the stump of a Bristlecone could be a great place to sit and contemplate the Marvel Gaze since they prefer to grow on wind swept cliffs that tower over canyons below, even when alive they appear as a gnarled stump, there is a map of their locations and US National Park Service is somewhat secretive about where these ancients are located, see Bryce Canyon National Park for maps, US Parks and Forest Service maps, although I have photos of it, US Parks do not reveal exactly where the largest Sequoia Redwood is, it is not the General Sherman tree, I have made several films for National Parks and US Immigration and Naturalization Service and you may be shocked to know how long a tree stump will last, try kicking over any of em….not so easy is it? Someone could sit down on one as seen on page 146 of Thrill, take some sleeping pills and their final view is a CANYON DOWN.

    Forrest has an abundance of knowledge about fossils, and states of decay and Seeker, for many tree stumps to decay into dirt it takes a very, very, very long time, especially a bristlecone, sometimes it will solidify and you see their calcified/frozen state, many pieces of petrified wood are redwoods, cedars perhaps Bristlecone pines, ff IMO may have turned over a few logs and viewed a few stumps, since he thought of or looked into everything.

    If I were at the end of ff’s maze or end of his rainbow it would not surprise me if wood, would be the correct answer. So Seeker don’t discount stumps, after all where do Leprechauns live, under toadstools? No, tree stumps, to protect their pot of gold hidden inside.


    • I’ve always believed “rare bark” (FF used this phrase in a eulogy to a friend) refers to the Bristlecone Pine tree.

      • You need to drive about 80 miles northeast from Bryce Canyon NP, UT to about 1 mile southwest of Fish Lake, UT where The Trembling Giant or Pando quaking aspen grove is located on UT state highway 25. It is estimated to be the one of the oldest (80,000 to possibly 1 million years old) and largest “single” living organisms at about 13 million pounds spread over 100+ acres with over 40,000 individual trees all sharing a massive single root system. Each tree is actually a cloned stem. It was once thought to be the world’s oldest organism, but a thousand-acre fungal mat in Oregon is thought to be older along with another quaking aspen clone grove more recently publicized in northern California.

        • A grove of Aspens, usually are a single organism, since they are spread by rhizomes and not through tillers/seeds…however the exact science to quantify it’s age is analogous to the theory of the age of Create Bush in the desert Southwest USA, although the theory sounds pratical, it is not accepted in all scientific circles like dendrochronology proven in both tree science and Archeology as indisputable see Coronado Pueblo, Kiva’s age and Dendrochronology.

          My point was not to prove or disprove a theory, just do not belive a tree stump disappears into soil quickly.

          If ff stashed Indulgence on a Canyon Ridge in a tree stump, it would most likely be affected by wind, some cold blowing storms which would allow moisture and perodic condensation into that wooden container which is a perfect disguise and a sort of coffin to shield from elements of sunlight, snow and especially WIND.

          What were ff’s exact words about which element may affect the TC? Wind. Worth the cold wind?


          • My point wasn’t to debate scientific theory or dispute what you wrote. Merely suggest that in the woods are other (clonal) trees considered to be amongst the oldest living things on planet earth that don’t disappear quickly – at least not their root systems below earth (home of Brown?). Good hunting.

      • Sandy, you are on my wavelength, see Scrapbook 83.

        I am filming a drones view of my favorite Canyon Down Sandy, see you there, just do not say when nor where…


        • Watch out Tom T…if I see your drone (which is not unlikely) you may get a “moon”shot!! Its a popular past time in DGO to moon the train. The mayor gets mad but the passengers think it’s hysterical.

        • Thanks SL, interesting topic to bark over with a friend. On the backside, I had to smile at Sandy’s penchant for flashing her little attributes in the face of an elected body.

          • Yew know Patience left with Hugh. That wood is too special to bark about lightly. The border is getting closer and closer. Just sayin.

        • SL – thank you for the link. The Yew tree is very important medically for it’s healing qualities and deemed sacred in many cultures. For those searching in Montana, it is of interest that the Yew tree occurs in the western part of the state. If “Yew’ve” been wise, if “Yew” are brave….you might want to look for an old, fire scarred, resin filled Yew (or Bristlecone) stump that is slowly starting to decay. Those old tree stumps can last for literally hundreds of years. Think fatwood, oldwood, etc. I have old fire scorched pitch-pine rounds that we harvested from a burn almost 40 years ago (and were probably 30 years old when we harvested) that are still solid as a rock. After a fire goes thru an area that may kill the tree but not destroy it, the pitch rises from the taproot and initially turns the lower part of the tree into a very dense, pitch filled, hot burning, slow to decay stump. Very precious to people who heat / cook with wood. When the tree is harvested, that pitch-pine stump lasts a very, very long time.

          On another note, even Aspen arborglyphs last for up to a 100+ years. My dad was a scout leader at Philmont in the late 40s and Kit Carson had left his mark (KC) on many Aspens at Philmont. Do the math and you will be amazed! I have found arborglyphs 80-90 years old in the San Juan mountains. Maybe a glyph as a hint.

          Thanks Straw…my attributes aren’t so little but I appreciate the compliment (I think)!

          • Not to discount the possibility, but here is another view:

            Quote from an interview by the California Sun Magazine.
            Out in the sculpture garden, Fenn beckoned me over and gestured toward the trunk of a thick white poplar tree. “See the F carved in there? That’s my initial.” The letter was barely legible now, a gray-brown knot that I never would have noticed if he hadn’t pointed it out. Fenn waved distastefully at another blur of gray, farther up the trunk. “There were other F’s there, but they’re obliterated now.”
            Such ravages of time are often on his mind now that he’s nearing his 85th birthday, though Fenn remains matter-of-fact about the prospect of his days coming to an end. “If I get Alzheimer’s, I’m going to flag my calendar for six months from now and do it my own way,” he told me. “Hopefully at my last dying gasp I will still go back to that place and die at my favorite …” He trailed off, perhaps wary of giving out a clue.” Just a different view – JDA

          • Hi JDA.

            Another thing to include would be that not all trees lose their bark or the tree’s bark will deteriate.

            We always hear of people’s initials carved into tree trunks lasting many, many years.

            I think it would be a special type of tree that could be involved.


  67. Seeker ~IF for any other reasoning… newbies should be listening very carefully to all the ‘old time treasure hunter’ so they don’t make the same mistakes…

    I said newbies, not dummies! Appears you’re thinking my ‘newbie’ is some guy locked in a closet with ONLY map and poem. Nope, I’m talking about newbie thinking (fresh eyes) and with all the ‘solid’ ATF comments. I’m reminded of a mentor (a physicist) who told me he had to excuse himself from active participation in novel research due to his conventional career. However, his vast conventional experience was ripe for passive participation. I think the long time searchers here have the same problem/s where it’s hard to unlearn certain stuff.

    The bottom line is that where you’re coming from will determine where you’re going (but not when you get there).

    • Matt,
      You wrote:
      “I think the long time searchers here have the same problem/s where it’s hard to unlearn certain stuff.”

      IMO, everyone who accepts Forrest’s challenge of The Chase should “unlearn” everything they’ve been taught and much of what they’ve learned through life’s experiences. IMO, what’s important is not what you (believe you) KNOW going into this challenge, but what you glean during it and how you assimilate that information. Perhaps this is how we should approach most of life’s challenges…

      Just my two sense.

  68. I believe there is a good chance within 200′ of the Hidey Space on GE, or 2″ to scale. If I only knew which time searching it was….

    • Aaron, if you are looking for times and dates, try this:
      8/22, 5 degrees elevation, 6:54a.m., 33 too.
      The key and the 9th clue. At least what I’ve found. Don’t know the meanings, just how it was broken down. Think it’s the date and time of the sun’s elevation of 5 degrees. The 33 too is up for grabs. Either seconds, or feet, or possible symbol ( both 3’s facing each other).
      (Actually, I do know, but that is for me) this may help you or mean nothing at all. It’s just how the lines were broken down, IMO.

      • In the search area, the sun reaches 5 degrees elevation twice a day every day of the year, for what it’s worth.


      • Charlie, how did you come upon the 5 degrees and why or where did you get 33? is that 33 degrees? Your comment does not compute with any rhyme or reason, what has 8/22 ff’s birthday mean for your analogy?

        What is the 9th clue scenario you are suggesting? I be bewildered on this?

        i believe that 5 degrees is super important and how you arrived there is truly a mystery, but in a way it borders on true enlightenment if you see this poem in 3 dimensions ….the way I do. Any architect would be proud of what ff has produced in poetry. I find it astonishing that someone has not seen it sooner.


        • Tom, it’s the key. A word that is key is “key”. The key is Forrest Fenn. (A little of me is also in the chest). My alpha/numerics gives me for Forrest Fenn= 14 8. Pages in the book, but also it = 22. A rainbow halo is seen at 22 degrees, thus “his” rainbow. So, for his name you can see 5 8/22. On 8/22 the sun will be at 5 degrees elevation in the sky at the time supplied by the 9th clue, the last line of the poem. I give you time 6 to 7 33 11. For me, at my exact spot, on 8/22 at 6:54am, the sun is at 5 degrees. Light from the sun hitting what I have placed there gives me a shadow. What I got to put there I got from the blaze, (better yet, marvel gaze). Goes with his ATF comment of, paraphrasing, this person has done the math and knows exactly where it is. Also, the coordinates goes with, If you had the coordinates, etc…
          33 is from many places. Go in gold =g=3,o=3, l=1,d=1, so 33 too.
          Also, Marvin Fenn = 25 8.
          Also, the word pattern of the poem if there was a 7th stanza. 25,27,27,29,29,29,”33″. Also, the Wyoming med wheel, spoke 24 opposite 9. Draw a tangent. And the TFTW map, copy onto itself, 50% opacity, move the copy to the 13th declination to see two 3’s facing each other and an arrow pointing up. Points to an “X”. From the word Anacondas. This is also found at the blaze, two 3’s facing each other.
          There are many ways to see the poem and solve, no surprise that someone would find what I have but in a different way. The poem “IS” layered, 3d so to say. While most seem to be throwing darts at a Rockies map, I choose to solve the poem first. Some may not like, I don’t really like the solve, but it is a way to solve the poem, for me. The results are true to form. Explains all his stories, and can even get the blaze latitude. Because, the blaze in my opinion cannot be seen initially. It definitely throws the searcher off.

          • What does ATF mean? I see it regularly and have either forgotten or just don’t know. But solving the poem is hard and solving posts makes me feel a little insecure.

          • * * * * * * charlie wrote – “For me, at my exact spot, on 8/22 at 6:54am, the sun is at 5 degrees. Light from the sun hitting what I have placed there gives me a shadow.” * * * * * *

            Hey-O charlie!

            I won’t pretend to understand how you derived those time/date/elevation numbers, but I AM curious to know how you put them to use once you have them?

            For the idealized (0 degree)horizon, it’s easy enough to find the many places where the sun is 5 degrees high at 6:54a on 22 August.

            There are a great many such places in the Chase Rockies – how do you use that condition to derive your “exact spot”?

            And if you then require the sun to be actually shining on something at 6:54a, then instead you’re using the local (visible) horizon, and while that eliminates huge swathes of the search territory (because the sun won’t get to a visible 5 degrees until well after 6:54a when there’s a higher eastern horizon), it also makes it impossible to calculate where the working locations are (without stomping them out – and there will still be tons of them, especially on east-facing slopes).

            Can you tell me how the information “sun at 5 degrees at 6:54a on 22 August” helps lead to an exact spot? What am I missing?

            Or misunderstanding?


          • Jake, first and foremost, I already have the coordinates. There is always a ‘backup” if you will. For me, marvel gaze has what will be stood up at the coordinates. But, for me, it’s long gone. Doesn’t mean I need it. Just do a little math, like f has said. A 7′ stick, shaped like a “Y”, when the sun is at a 5 degree elevation casts a shadow. Which happens to be 80’ long. The clues get me there but not needed, I have the coordinates. It can all be figured from home.
            As for the blaze, I have found where he gives the latitude of the spot. I didn’t know it at the time I was there, but a lucky find. Standing in front of the blaze, I still could not see it. It threw me off, it has thrown Dal off, and I figure it would throw anybody seeing it off. But again, to stand the test of time, coordinates.

          • Sorry LAKe, have to add that the shadow will be heading west. At 6:54a.m. the sun is 5 degree elevation, directly out of the East. And no, I can hear already the foolish questions by others, “how about on an overcast day”, doesn’t matter, already worked out where to go. The coordinates even have a backup for your confidence, all IMO of course.

          • * * * * * * charlie explained – “Just do a little math, like f has said. A 7′ stick, shaped like a “Y”, when the sun is at a 5 degree elevation casts a shadow. Which happens to be 80’ long.” * * * * * *

            Aha – and ff was about 80 when he hid the chest.

            Thanks charlie. I understand what you’re saying, but have to admit I don’t know what you mean.


      • Tom T: can you explain why 5 degrees has any relevance to you? Did you find it in the poem, and if so, where? It’s useless as a latitude or longitude in the Rockies, so are you using it as an elevation angle? Danger Will Robinson if so.

        • Hi Charlie: my avatar notwithstanding, time of day (and time of year) was relevant to Indy’s decipherment of the location of the Well of Souls (though the date sensitivity was apparently lost on the writers in that movie–ah, the weaknesses of a humanities-only education ;-).

          IMO, Forrest’s WWWH is time-and-date invariant; if there was a time/date requirement, any clues tied to them would be useless in a century, let alone millennia. There are enough variables in the poem decipherment problem; adding a time/date parameter makes the poem unsolvable to rednecks in Texas with 12 kids.

  69. BOTG soon on Fall River Trail in Colorado. Anyone willing to join? I am more than willing to share! I just love the quest! I have a good feeling I will be having at least one person taking me up on my request.

    • Hi, Divergent Beauty.
      Where is the Fall River Trail? Are you talking about the Old Fall River Road in RMNP? If so, keep a close eye on conditions. Fall River Road and Trail Ridge Road were both closed last weekend due to snow. They’re open again right now, but the weather here in Colorado has been consistently lousy all week and looks to stay that way into this weekend. I hope I’m wrong, but at the moment it looks like it’s going to be a very early winter in the mountains this year. Take a look at the RMNP Alpine Visitor Webcam for a good view of conditions; it’s pointed directly down the Fall River Valley. As of this morning, conditions look a bit snowy.

      Anyways, good luck on your search. I drove up Fall River Road for my first time this year (non-Chase related) and it was a very pretty drive, though it’s one-way traffic only so if conditions look sketchy, you don’t really have any good options for bailing out. Also, if you are driving a sedan, watch out for the big potholes at the switchbacks! Good luck and stay safe!

  70. Degrees, latitude, longitude, time, elevation. For people getting this information out of the poem, I have to admit that I don’t get it. And, if it’s not coming from the poem, I don’t see how it’s relavent since the poem clues are supposed to take us to the treasure.

    • Tom B: “coordinates” can EASILY be extracted from the poem using very little imagination. I encourage you to try. That said, just because one can manufacture reasonable coordinates from the poem does not mean Forrest put them in there.

  71. So in the spirit of overanalysis….one definition (paraphrasing) of “keep”, as a noun, is the interior , highly fortified central portion of a castle. Change it to a verb and the phrase “I can keep my secret” takes on a different meaning. Haven’t seen this mentioned anywhere and found it interesting.

    • Sean…I have personally commented on this very thing about line 3 of the poem both on this site and on Chase Chat…

      If you wish, I can give you a sensible direct interpretation of this line of the poem in the manner consistent with your post…

      A ‘keep’ is a ‘hiding place’, used as a verb ‘can keep’ would be defined as ‘hides’….

      If you’re interested, email me…

      I made Tom B a similar offer in another thread on this site about WWWH, but apparently he wasn’t serious with the question he asked since he didn’t contact me…

      Some info I will discuss privately, when I will not comment openly on the blogs…

  72. Fenn: “A metal detector will help you if you’re in exactly the right spot.”
    I have been pondering that comment. I think Fenn is saying that the hiding place will be obvious once you are there and that a metal detector while not required to aid in your search can be used to confirm that you are in the right spot.
    He buried his bells too deep for a metal detector to detect. The majority of recreational detectors (like mine) can locate metal objects up to about 10 or 12″ deep. So that means the location is marked in some way, and that the chest is hidden (or buried) at a maximum depth of 12″ from ground level. IMO of course.


    (Note: Don’t split hairs on this. My detector manual says larger objects can be found at more than a foot deep, and military grade models can detect
    more than 3 feet but I stand by my observations).

    • I’ve been wondering if the TC is sitting on its side, rather than its bottom. A 10by10 would be easier to find with a metal detector than a 10by5. Likewise, a 10by5 might be easier to side into a crevasse some place.

      • Hello leki. If one is scanning with a side-to-side motion, my personal thought is that it may still be detected whether it’s a 10″ X 10″ or 10″ X 5″. What are your thoughts to the contents of the treasure chest should it truly be found on its side?

      • (Second try.) I believe using a metal detector in a side-to-side motion, the treasure chest might be found whether it’s in a 10″ X 10″, or 10″ X 5″ area. What are your thoughts to the contents of the treasure chest should it truly be found on its side?

      • Since the chest is unlocked I doubt if it is resting on it’s side. There would also be a greater risk of moisture contamination.

        • Makes sense, unless the chest is wrapped in some material to help keep it closed and reduce opportunity for soil or water to enter the chest. I believe the chest is wrapped in something. This, in my opinion, it is equally likely to be in a vertical position as it is to be on a horizontal position.

        • Three exceptions come to mind randawg:
          1) The space (crevice/recess) is narrow enough to keep the lid from opening.
          2) It looks like there is a latch that will keep it closed, but not locked. A door can be closed, and latched, but not locked.
          3) It looks like the lid is larger than the chest itself. If the lid fits snugly around the chest, the lid might not come open, even if on its side. JDA

          • Hello JDA. Would the weight of the contents force the lid open upon lifting it on its side?

          • (Second try.) Would the weight of the contents open the lid once found on its side? We have approximately 40+ lbs. to consider.

          • pd;

            As I said, look at the latch. It looks like it could keep the top closed. Will there be shifting of the weight – 20 to 22 lbs?
            probably. But, if Forrest planned to put it in a vertical position don’t you think he would have tested this out? After all, hasn’t he said that he has thought of everything? I do not think that this is something that we need to lose sleep over – JMHO – JDA

          • pdenver,

            Don’t ask me why, but It could have something to do with The Flyer and his feeling that Skippy “should’ve been buried standing up.”


    • Greetings Randawg and fellow searchers—Is’nt it curious that Fenn has said that, “there isn’t a picture on google earth of the chest because it does not go down that far” Now would not that imply that IF GOOGLE Earth Could Go down Far you COULD see the chest? Mr. Fenn has also said , (paraphrasing) If you were in 12 feet of the chest I don’t see how you would not discover the chest? Now these two comments seem to imply that it is out in the open BUT—there are the comments by Mr. Fenn like A METAL DETECTOR WOULD HELP IN YOU ARE IN EXACTLY THE RIGHT SPOT—AND Nobody is going to happen upon that treasure chest unless they figure out the clues and go to it. NOw, how can somthing that can be seen by goolge earth IF it went down that far and be detected from 12 feet away be out in open veiw??? I don’t see how that chest could go 1000 years without someone discovering it by chance unless it was totally concealed or buried. But then what about the comment about google earth not being able to see the chest because it doesn’t go down that far?? COMMENTS???

      • If it is buried, certainly GE “can’s go down that far”. Regarding the 12′ here is his quote: “I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.” f Not be that close and not find it … unless the clues had led you to be that close – It could still not be in the open, but the clues led you this far – now find it! JDA

      • Arnold, I like your thinking. It suggests to me
        that the TC may NOT be covered by a tarry scant
        (slab of stone) after all. Maybe the TC is resting
        on a slab, or beside or near it.

        I think that a small group of trees contains or surrounds the TC. And perhaps the TC is almost buried. If FF dug a squarish hole about 3″ deep and placed the TC in it, this would
        help to conceal the TC, without it being (technically) “buried” . . . I think.

        The above is all my opinion.

      • If the blaze is an overhanging rock, there would be an area down below the overhang which GE cannot provide a clear view into. Saying it can’t go down that far may simply mean it cannot see down under the overhang.

        This is my opinion based on my new discovery.


      • Hi Arnold,
        Paraphrase of the video comment you referenced:

        Fenn: “…There is not a picture of the chest on Google Earth. Was that your question?”

        Man: “Yeah I think that will suffice.”

        Fenn: “[No] Because Google Earth doesn’t go down far enough.”

        Mr Fenn is careful on how he answers such questions. I think he meant that GE could not zoom in close enough to identify details of a 10″ x 10″ object even IF it were out in the open.
        Fenn also added the word “picture” to the man’s question as another loophole. There are certainly no pictures of the chest viewable on GE at any magnification.
        I believe that while the chest cannot be seen on GE a major clue to it’s hiding place can be.


      • Eric Sloane, Fenn’s good friend, wrote a book on camoflage. I have thought for some time that Fenn may have actually painted the box to match the surroundings, or used some other camoflage technique. At 12 feet or less you would recognize it, beyond 12 feet the shape would be broken up. As a young man I hunted Iowa rabbits and a brown rabbit sitting in brown grass would, many times, not be seen until you nearly stepped on it. My wife cringes when I mention that Fenn may have globbed paint on the bronze chest. Just a thought.

  73. Randawg said “I believe that while the chest cannot be seen on GE a major clue to it’s hiding place can be.”

    I agree. I believe the blaze can be seen on GE.

  74. The oddest place that has so many Fenn references is found Where?
    This place has a Cadies with 1 D, Cadys
    Heavy loads,
    Warm water
    Home of Brown
    Tea cups
    Cows and chickens
    And so many other that Fenn wrote in the poem and in TTOTC.
    Most places in the Rockies, one can find references to the poem, maybe a book item or two. But this place has everything.
    I have no idea if it’s here or implying otherwise.
    How odd is it to find everything at Vail Ski resort in the names of slopes and lifts?

      • Bob,
        my imagination say it’s the Egyptian god horus carrying a sickle.
        Reality, it’s just Pareidolia effect of a rock slide.
        Interestingly though it’s above warm creek.

        • Thanks, I started at Warm Creek and went north to that peculiar looking thing. Now I have to look up the word you described.

          • Bob – this is close to my (only) search area, and agree with Aaron re: dead/ dying trees (assuming you meant the auburn coloured area that sorta looks rocky on GE?)

            have you found icebox canyon yet, or the dormant Soda Butte geyser?
            (have co-ords – will share 🙂 )

          • SB geyser

            apparently, the last wolves to be killed in Yellowstone during the period of wolf extermination where killed near this hot spring cone 🙁

      • Strange, it looks a little like a light colored bush or tree.

        I found something strange on GE in Yellowstone the other day. It looks man made and pretty big. I have no idea how it could have got there other than falling from the sky. I have emailed Yellowstone asking about it. I’ll post the coordinates soon, just waiting to find out from them if they know what it is first. It surely isn’t treasure related.

      • Bob: i assume you’re referring to the sulfur-colored, circular object at the top of the talus field. Judging from the size of the nearby trees, I’d say it’s a tree or large bush. If you’re wondering whether it could be Forrest’s blaze, I’d dismiss it. It’s in extremely steep terrain, so I don’t see anyone hiking up to it with 22 lbs. on their back. In any case, it’s not something that’s likely to be there a century from now.

        • Got three different answers. I think that’s a good thing. I see Warm Creek but can’t seem to see it on the map. Soda Butte is listed but Warm Creek only lists what appears to be a small picnic area on the south side and a parking lot on the north. GE only zooms to 50 feet. I think it would be interesting if the TC involved 2 states to get to it. IMO

      • That is a weird item, and doesn’t seem to make sense. It may be a clump of bushes. I spun around and viewed it from the side and it appears flat, but from the original position it seems cone shaped.

        I have discovered an item in my search area which was on GE, but was not there when we arrived. Some things are not what they seem. GE is about to update images from landsat integration, so by November these images may change.

        • Tim
          It would be interesting to see a poll as to who seen something similar as you and I believe a bush.
          I believe this is what Fenn was referring when imagination, not this object persay but something like it to be the Home of Brown and other clues too.

          Playfully, my god beats your lion
          Don’t be a bush

        • I wonder if that is like negative dysphotopsia….as for that peculiar thingy above warm creek, I see it is part of Yellowstone. I have been in the camp of those who say the loot is not in a National Park because of legality/ownership issues. I erroneously figured the park ended at the Montana border. Nuts.

    • That would be nice – take a ski vacation to Vail and come back with a treasure chest!

      • In CO now and it is spectacular! The colours are great and the contrast of autumn against the snow covered mountains is a treasure to the eyes. Enjoy!

  75. I like to post on the hidey spot because I think that most posters have a general solve, and are looking for specifics.
    I have an inexpensive metal detector but it only seems to pick up my small bronze ash tray at maybe 8″. I’m curious as to what quality metal detector would be required to pick up a 10 x10 bronze box at 12 or more inches. Should I invest in a higher quality metal detector?

    • emmett, I wouldn’t do it for this specific treasure hunt.

      FF has indicated that if a searcher gets within 12 feet of
      the TC, it’ll probably be found.

      I suspect that anybody who gets that close will have solved
      the poem PERFECTLY, and will go confidently right to the
      hidey place.

  76. Groucho Marx often asked contestants, “Who is buried in Grant’s Tomb?” The riddle is based on the use of the word “buried.” The correct answer is “no one,” since Grant and his wife are entombed in sarcophagi above ground in an atrium rather than being buried in the ground.

    • Do we have to revisit this?
      Marx asked this as a question that would always give the correct answer, which is, Grant.
      past tense: entombed; past participle: entombed
      place (a dead body) in a tomb.
      synonyms: inter, lay to rest, bury;

      Interesting last word of those synonyms, wonder what it means?

      • Merriam-Webster also lists “hearse” as a synonym for “entomb”. Don’t believe everything you read. 🙂

        • completely cover; cause to disappear or become inconspicuous.
          “the countryside has been buried under layers of concrete”
          synonyms: hide, conceal, cover, enfold, engulf, tuck, cup, sink; literaryenshroud
          “she buried her face in her hands”
          antonyms: reveal
          move or put out of sight.
          “she buried her face in her hands”
          deliberately forget; conceal from oneself.
          “they had buried their feelings of embarrassment and fear”
          overwhelm (an opponent) beyond hope of recovery.
          “losses that would bury multiple businesses”
          involve oneself deeply in something to the exclusion of other concerns.
          “he buried himself in work”
          synonyms: absorb, engross, immerse, occupy, engage, busy, involve
          “he buried himself in his work”

          We’ll pretend he doesn’t care he isn’t underground.

    • At this point in the game it’s almost impossible to comment on something that hasn’t already been discussed.
      I hope to have specific details on why my post is significant soon.

  77. After Doug Preston’s comment , about Mr. Fenn leaving his car in Denver. Some searchers think the chest could be there. Other searchers have pointed out that Denver is not in the Rocky mountains, so the chest can’t be there. However Denver is shown on the treasure map in TFTW, but I can’t tell if it’s in the highlighted area. It looks real close.

    • James,

      I’m probably going to get in more hot water for repeating something I posted a month or two ago regarding the search area.

      “Forth, there is some geographical dispute about whether Bandelier National Monument is in the Rocky Mountains but since it is shown on the map in my Too Far to Walk book it must be considered within the search area.” f

      Denver is also shown on the map, so draw your own conclusion and please, don’t shot the messenger. I’m still recovering the previous bullet wound, which reminds me, Sherif Billy, should I file charges?


      • That is a good one to remember P…Charlie. But, I think there may have been a little twist to that at the time. Sorry to hear you got wounded by a cyber bullet ! I wear my tinfoil hat, cardboard and duct tape body armor and always always my rose colored glasses. Keeps me from reading bad things…Get well soon.

        • Glad I could help Ken. My recovery () is coming along very well now, thank you for asking.

          By the way, in case you haven’t discovered it yet, this link will take you to a great website where you can word search for anything Forrest has said or posted on most forums. Type in Skippy and see what you get. I really like TarryScant.

          I use it regularly and will be posting something I found interesting just yesterday when word-searching. Just have a little more looking around to do first.

          I don’t recall it being discussed here in the past so it might raise a healthy debate…….stay tuned.


      • Hi emmett – I’m not counting more than two. What I am suggesting is that one of them might not be a person at all.

        • That’s more metaphorical than actual, isn’t it?
          A tree can keep my secret if it’s now dead, or a non-living rock can keep my secret.

          That would be a strange reason to say the comment if it was meant that way, imo. The idea seems to relate to a once living entity now dead… kinda eliminates the rock [ non-living item or object ].

          The only things left is plant, animal, or human… which makes more sense as far as what “two” refers to?
          The only possible other Idea would be the blaze itself… a non-living object [whatever the blaze is]… that can actually “tell of” a secret.
          But why be concern about that object [and the comment] if you know where it is, and apparently only known of from the poem?

  78. I just realized that I had been thinking of the hiding place wrong. Ever since I read that he wanted to inter himself with the chest, I have always thought of it as “his place”. But it’s not about him, it’s about his legacy, the chest. The chest is a very grand sight, and I think he would hide it, in a equally grand place. Just a thought.

  79. I think there’s an element of a jest associated with the hiding place. And an element of audacity, that caused him to laugh out loud, at himself, when he was walking back to his car. ” “

  80. I could imagine the chest being hidden at some grand over look, with a monument to somebody else, and the chest being a kind of graffiti, saying “Kilroy was here”.

    • I agree, and disagree. Could it be at some grand overlook – YES
      With a monument to somebody else – Yes – No. An existing monument to someone else? – No, I do not think so. Is Indulgence, in a way a special tribute to someone other than Forrest? – Quite possibly so.
      “and the chest being a kind of graffiti saying, “Kilroy was here”
      Graffiti? No I don’t think so.
      “Kilroy was here”? YES – Forrest is saying, “Forrest WAS here”… and you need to learn why, to fully understand the “Chase”. Again, just food for thought – JDA

    • James,
      His special place ‘alone’… seems to contradict a monument for an ‘other’… in the sense… ‘kilroy was here.’ As fenn said, he holds this place with “respect and high regards.”
      Now a grand overlook, seems more than reasonable.
      In my mind, I can see the second stanza giving such a view… what fenn would see if standing at the location of the chest. In my mind, I can see stanza four giving feature type directions to that spot within the small location. In my mind there might be sections of the poem that tell us where to start.
      In my imagination, the poem might tell of the clues in a different pattern then most would normally think… smaller scale vs. larger scale, idea for example.
      It all might come down to; plain English is not as plain as we think…
      ~”Now I will test you Wordsmith. Write down the full definition of the word “several.” Then Google it and learn that many of us don’t fully understand some of the words we use every day.f ”
      ~”…it was written by an architect, each word is deliberate.”
      ~ …”There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them.”
      ~”…I looked up words and definitions of words and changed them, went back and rebooted… it turned out exactly like I wanted.”

      ~ (referring to the nine clues – Moby’s book signing): “They’re contiguous. [ the nine clues ] … easy for me to put one foot down and then step on it to get to the next foot. That’s what I did.”
      { I add the last quote as a possible elimination of thought that a vehicle was used between clues, as some suggest, for the line in the poem…”Not far, but too far to walk” and as an example of how plain English can be misunderstood.}
      Of course, all that crap is just my opinion.

  81. seeker- he holds this place “with respect and high regards”.
    When i think of the places that i hold with respect and high regard, they have a lot more than intrinsic beauty. In fact I can think of very few places in the rural Rockies that are not inherently beautiful in their own way.
    I believe that the hidey space is special and secret for different values than its beauty. When he described the spot, did he refer it as beautiful, spectacular, great view, etc.?
    I believe that it is an ordinary place with special relevance for him.

    • Emmett;

      Or both – a beautiful place with special relevance to Forrest. One does not have to exclude the other – JMO – JDA

  82. Hi All, I would think that there is a difference between “reverence” and “high regard”. To me, the fact that he laughed out loud at himself, after he hid the chest, suggests an element of mischief, or maybe not. But, “a sense of reverence”, just doesn’t line up, with an out burst of laughter. Just a thought.

    • Maybe reverence in “The Special Place” – But an outburst in the parking area – Laughing at the audacity of what he had just done.

      One can laugh outside of a church without diminishing the reverence he expressed within – Just a thought – JDA

    • The difference is ‘reverence’ means admire.
      Respect and high Regards are more in lines with how ‘its’ treated.
      If we twist it a bit, we can make it work;
      Example; I respect and and hold high regards to The President of the US, but I don’t admire the President.
      Plain English…

    • Hi James – I think Forrest couldn’t help but laugh because of the spot he chose to hide the treasure. Something tells me that the spot is special but also extremely humorous. Forrest enjoys humor so incorporating it into the chase plays a big part IMO.

      • Forrest said we will be surprised! I picture the location in a unlikely place, maybe in a funny place, or a place so beautiful yet like right off a view point. Or?

          • Oh Hi randawg, Good morning. I have been on the chase since the beginning. I’ve took many notes. I need to find this quote. If anyone else has this please post. Meanwhile…..

        • Hi Lou Lee – is this the quote you were referring to?

          “Well, you don’t know where it is,” he said, grinning. “When somebody finds that treasure chest, everybody’s going to say, ‘My God! Why didn’t I think of that?’” from the California Sunday magazine interview

          • Hi Hear me all! This is a quote I have not heard. But it sounds like the one I heard. I think he said surprised, it’s very similar. I will work on finding it when I get some free time. Super busy Monday. TCB! Thank you so much for responding!

  83. Just my opinion, But it seems obvious to me, that he dropped Olga’s ashes, on the kind of place where he would chosen for himself. Where life isn’t frozen solid all Winter.

  84. Mr. Fenn told us that, “people continue to arrive there” Continue , imply’s an unbroken stream, as in year round?

    • James;

      I am unfamiliar with your quote. I went to and looked it up – no reference. Can you please give a source for your quote? When and where did Forrest say this? Thanks – JDA

      • Hi JDA, it was during an interview. It might have been when he first made the 500 foot comment. I just remember him saying that, [ people continue to arrive there, but they don’t realize the significance of the place].

        • Thanks – Strange that it doesn’t show up on Tarryscant nor can I find it on “Chasing Words of Forrest Fenn” I will take your word for it though – JDA

          • Lets play ‘Pick-A-Quote;

            ~ “Searchers have routinely revealed where they think the treasure was hidden and walked me through the process that took them on that course. That’s how I know a few have identified the first two clues. Although “others” were at the starting point I think their arrival was an aberration and they were oblivious to its connection with the poem. Playing a hunch is not worth much in the search and those who start out by looking for the blaze, are wasting their time.f”
            ~ “Several months ago some “folks” correctly mentioned the first two clues to me in an email and then they went right past the other seven, not knowing that they had been so close. Alas, and dame fortune, so often a fickle and seductive wench, never spun her wheel to lure them back.”
            ~ “There have been “some” who have been within 500 feet because they have told me where they have been.  “Others” have figured the first two clues and went right past the treasure and didn’t know it.” 
            ~ “It’s not a matter of trying. It’s a matter of thinking. Sure… I mean, “people” figured the first couple clues and unfortunately walked pass the treasure chest.”

          • Seeker.
            I’ll play one round. The last two quotes intrigue me. First two clues found and folks walked right pass the treasure. Hmmm. He didn’t say how near over, under, around they passed, but I suspect not too far to walk. That’s about all I got so far which someday might bridge a gap, connect a dot, fill a hole.
            Chase well…Stay safe…

          • I’ll take door # 1 …
            I like this one the best. It even talks about looking for “the” blaze at the start. Seems fairly straight forward, no?
            The recurring theme is Fenn’s reference to first “two” clues in most similar ATF. This seems to suggest a close connection or possible singular “place”, yes?
            At any rate…Is there a “Pick A Place” game we can play…?
            I think Forrest just dropped a 500 pounder over on another thread.

      • It’s only part of a larger quote… about the ‘first two clues.’
        The word ‘people’ had many thinking, tourist at an attraction, and not actual searchers. But that wasn’t the only time fenn referred to searchers using the term ‘people’
        Example; “It’s not a matter of trying. It’s a matter of thinking. Sure… I mean, people figured the first couple clues and unfortunately walked pass the treasure chest.”
        ~ There’s that ‘walk’ word again…

        While these are older comments [2013 -14], I’m surprised that many don’t know them in full, or recall them at all. They’ve only been posted a thousand times.
        And, can be found in JCM’s documents w/ links provided to the original source n dates. [ books by searchers thread ] for an easy access to all of fenn’s first hand quotes and second hand info.
        Not to mention Dal has the interviews posted in the media section.

  85. To me, the biggest issue, is finding a place where the 200 foot / 500 foot comment, can be rectified. There has to be recognizable points, like a parking lot near a trail head. This would seem to be the best criteria to accept or reject a possible site.

    • If the two recognizable points were in a straight line, the distance between them would be 300 feet, But they can be anywhere in 360 degrees apart. In that case draw two lines from point A, one 200 feet and one 500 feet long, and two lines from point B, 200 feet and 500 feet long. And try to find a spot where one of the lines from point A would converge with one of the lines from point B. HTH.

      • The simplest way to see if the lines touch, is to use the ruler on Google Earth, and lay out two lines, one 200 feet long, and one 500 feet long. Then print out the screen shot, and then using a drawing compass, set at the length of the lines you drew, make a circle with a 200 foot radius around points A and B, and a circle with a 500 foot radius, around points A and B. And see if the edge of a 200 foot radius circle, touches the edge of a 500 foot radius circle. That would be the place to look.

        • James,

          And you can get a profile with elevations of that line by right-clicking on it and select the last menu item if memory serves. GE profiles are not perfect, but it will give you a very good idea what the terrain looks like along that line.


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