The Nine Clues…Part Seventy Four


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This is the place to discuss the nine clues…For instance:
What are the nine clues…
Is the first clue “Begin it where warm waters halt” ?

566 thoughts on “The Nine Clues…Part Seventy Four

  1. Forrest is there more than one way to solve the poem? Will you write a public letter now to share with
    Us….congratulating the person/persons in the future who solve your poem?

    Thank you for the head banging fun and inspiration you bring to all that cross your trail. ♡♡

    • Iron Will,

      Years ago I decided it was time to pursue a professional engineering license if I wanted to advance any further in my career. Unfortunately, I was out of country for several years at the time in the Philippines, and as a result, everything was self-study, just like the Chase, with one big exception. Dal’s blog and Forrest’s hints.

      I had no one to ask questions of, bounce ideas of of, or study with. I was completely alone with my Esbach and a couple of civil engineering PE study books and guides.

      I spent hundreds of hours preparing for each test with my children too young to understand what I was doing and why I couldn’t devote as much time To them as I had been. Not to bore everyone too much, but it took me 3 tries before I finally passed. I was very depressed after the first failure but didn’t lose the drive to get my license. The second failure devastate me because I wasn’t sure I has the willpower, energy and focus to go for it a third time. But I didn’t give up and finally passed. That process was 3 years long because they only promoted the test overseas once a year. I have since retired and let my license expire.

      Please don’t give up. Take time to decompress, get over your illness, and then try and assess where you might have gone wrong. It will be hard I hard, but don’t give up. We are all pulling for you.

      With all that said, I cannot provide a clue, but I can tell you that IMO SB 172 contains 2 hints, that by the way, fit my search area perfectly, both of which he’s hinted at before.

      Hopefully this post will get distributed to everyone because I don’t think my post regarding SB 172 was because I failed to receive it any notification.

      Take care………Pinatubocharlie

    • Mindy –
      The poem is like an archeological dig site. Some things are together and in order and others are scattered all over the place like broken pottery after a tornado. My opinion.

  2. Southern distance,s…..
    Up yonder a ways.
    Down the road a piece.
    As the crow flies.
    Down by the crick.
    Just over the next hill.
    Through the tall woods.

  3. Carry over from the last blog….

    First off – thanks to “Alten” and all others who responded on the date stamp of the “she” comment….you all eased my mind…..I now remember that quote, but just not the “she” reference at the end of it. I also agree that FF was just musing with the way we are going about looking. Thanks everyone for correcting me….and “Seeker” – it has flew by pretty fast, huh?

    Blex commented on The Nine Clues (last part)….in response to
    Tim (zosorocks1):
    “IMO – of the 11 clues within the poem….there are five of them that have a name associated to the clue.”

    It can be subjective as to where one clue ends and the other begins, so the quantity of clues does not seem like a big deal to me in determining a solve.

    For example, do you consider “heavy loads and waters high” to be 0, 1, or 2 clues? (rhetorical question only)


    I agree sir.

    I think they all can be used as a checks and balance of each other. I know the first three do. And as you progress you may have to backtrack to the earlier clues in order to better understand the clue you are moving forward with.

    I think “hl&wh” are two clues that help define a location – as does most of us out in the search. But exactly what depth do we have to investigate these two clues? Are they two clues that actually equal one clue? Meaning – “and” clearly shows it could be two descriptions of the same location…..which also could mean that the location can be identified by understanding what these two descriptions actually refer to when combined.
    In summary:
    – are there two clues that actually equals one location?
    – are there two clues with two different locations?

    IMO – I don’t think they are just “hints” – because when I use them in what I have decided their meanings are, they do “bring me closer” to the where the chest is supposed to me – according to my solve.

    • Tim. Your welcome. I first saw that quote when it was commented recently also. I just searched for that FF Q&A answer and found it was a long past Q&A. It is one of the most interesting answers from FF. Almost deserves its own post thread lol. IMO, It is not that of a female searcher he is referring to . That is my perception thus far but also not eliminating anything either. His answer appears to me as the same style as his poem.
      The quote:

      “No Mike, everything in the chest is straight forward and visual, except my autobiography, which some might find dull. Oops, I forgot, there is one thing in the chest that I have not talked about except to say I don’t want to talk about it. It is something saved especially for the person who solves the clues. I think that person will be pleased when she sees it. f”

          • J. Smith. “Diamonds are a girls best friend”. Haha. Only for marketing purposes in the realm of marriage traditions for diamond merchants lol. I think there is a deeper meaning to what he means as said and what there is that is specially in TC for the person that solves the clues. It is a prized surprise!

        • Now that would be soooo cool to find in there.

          I wonder if that is what he meant by “she”….as “diamonds are a woman’s best friend”.


          • Tim,
            FF Said in Q&A Quote:
            “Oops, I forgot, there is one thing in the chest that I have not talked about except to say I don’t want to talk about it. It is something saved especially for the person who solves the clues. I think that person will be pleased when she sees it. f”

            He has said listed contents of

            Antique ladies gold dragon coat bracelet that contains 254 rubies, six emeralds and two ceylon sapphires and numerous small diamonds.

            So, in plain sight , my view is different than a marketing slogan.

          • Okay….still pretty interesting.

            Sounds like a bracelet one could take to the “Antiques Roadshow”!!


      • For lack of a better term, I think fenn is having fun with this answer… Not unlike this example;
        “I caught a nice fish and with it he took my photo. I mean he took my photo with it.”

        Lets walk though the answer, not as hinting at anything but, thought provoking…
        Straight forwards and visual { how we should see the clues as well } only we need “imagination” so it’s not so dull ? less-revealing, unimaginative… and why searchers didn’t know what the clues were when on location?

        “Something save”… I think that person will be pleased when she sees it.
        The something to be of a woman’s or maybe the “she” refers to a thing.
        Something kept / save from being lost, from “she” the thing… something from old bullet?
        any other close emotional pond… like something of his mother’s or family member or even someone he has admired from knowing, or knowing about, a collect item of hers?
        And save from lost, only to give to that person who earned it.

        • Seeker. Yes, it seems to be something not listed in the contents, hinted at, clued about nor storied about. Just something special only for the finder to know and see. Perhaps when I go for my only ever site search this summer, may I be or not be the one that sees it. Not sure when yet, just looking into the possibility of doing so. I will only go once though.

          • Could it be “the little girl from India?”

            That’s all I got…goin back to the poem now.

    • Thanks, Tim! I don’t think it’s unreasonable to consider that 2 separate clues could possibly refer to the same thing. I also don’t think it’s unreasonable to consider that one thing can only be discovered by the combination of 2 separate clues. After all, the location of the treasure can arguably only be solved by the combination of all of the clues put together (regardless of whether they’re 9 or more in quantity). Definitely food for thought.

      • @ Jake – you saw my post I included them in.

        Why not? What can you state that opposes this theory?

        1. WWWH – allows one to start
        2. canyon – direction
        3. hoB – direction
        4. meek – place
        5. nigh – direction
        6. creek – place
        7. hl & wh – place
        8. blaze – direction
        9. look down – direction
        10. tarry – direction on what to look for
        11. scant – direction on how much to look for

        1. “alone in there” – place
        2. worth the cold – place
        3. in the wood – place

        11 clues seem to help define the puzzle better.

        Good luck sir.

          • @ Sheryl Lynn
            “Tim-scant can be a color!’


            – IMO – it is only part of a color.

            Curiously enough….”purple and yellow flowers” seem to be an important natural feature to look for while in the final search zone. Because these seem to be something present for the region the TC lies in.

            I think someone will have to confirm that statement……I’m sort of guessing if this is true or not….as there isn’t an actual notation that shows FF said it…..although I think he did…..just don’t know where it is written. This is something I found….

            …from “part Fifty Seven”:

            “Geoff Idaho on October 27, 2015 at 7:37 pm said:
            You asked about your Cheat Sheet; I reviewed it, and found it (IMO) spot on.
            The only quibble I might make is that the map in TFTW, while referred to as a clue in some places, is (IMO) technically a hint, and not one of the nine clues.

            And someone asked for an example of a hint from TTOTC; here’s one (IMO):

            …the yellow and purple flowers flourish…”


          • Hi Sheryl Lynn…..that would be a hint…..not a clue…..

            FF only tells us what he had done.

            Although some can try to define this as some “area” he went to… you stated….as a “direction”… actually only “hints” toward a location.

            IMO – the first stanza is a relative statement to entice the seeker. We can clearly see that “he went somewhere”…..thus it is a hint…..because it doesn’t truly give us a direction to take… with WWWH… the starting point.

            Good thoughts…..but I’m not in that camp.

          • If in 500 years all a person has is the poem, and no back story: they don’t know “in the rocky mountains north of santa fe” or that there are 9 clues etc. Could a person reasonably just use the words in the poem and find your treasure chest?
            Thank you ~Nope
            Thank you Nope. Nope. f

            Tim you said; “as with WWWH… the starting point.”

            We also have the recent comment; [paraphrasing]
            How many clue… from home. All of them, in theory…

            I have my thoughts on this… but if the poem only… is a nope… Is wwwh really the “starting point”?

          • “Is wwwh really the “starting point”?”

            @ Seeker – good question… it had been a question I had to really ponder upon.

            I said this in another post, but I think one must use the poem twice, in the least… the beginning for the first three clues, and then again for all 11 clues. I said this, because of the “macro/micro” theory I used.

            One can find a starting point using GE…..or any map……but again, that is using the “big picture/macro” look.

            Once a seeker decides upon the area that matches the first three clues, they can use the poem again for the smaller – “macro” area – to move along a more detailed path……if the first three clues match up again in the “micro” look.

            It can be done… I did it. The question still stands… my solve the correct solve? In which I won’t know the answer until I actually place BOTG.

            Thanks for asking!

          • Tim,
            OK but that really doesn’t jive with the two comments. You still rely on the poem to give up the “starting point”… I just like to make that clear and not the first clue.

            I ask because I have been debating with myself to send in a post, only on that subject… but I’ll throw out a feeler…
            WhatIF the hints in the book “only” give up the “starting Point” and this is what helps with the clues…

            Hints help with the clues, the clues get you closer, the book by itself can’t, but the hints will help with the clues.
            All the information to “find” the treasure is in the poem.
            So whats might be missing…?
            If HINTS give us the starting point and only the starting point… the clues take you to the chest… the hints don’t answer the clues like many solves rely on… but they might help by telling us the starting point of where the clues can be found. So without the book to do that can you go in confidence? Have that certainty beforehand?

            There’s more to the thought with after the fact comments for a check and balance, but that’s the line of thinking.

          • Hi @Seeker….great questions. This is where the “meat falls off the bones” and where people begin to realize that what they have won’t work.

            “You still rely on the poem to give up the “starting point”… I just like to make that clear and not the first clue.”
            – actually I did with “the edge of civilization”. You are the one who refused to accept this location. Yes Seeker…there is a staring point I have used that falls into my category of “edge of civilization”. But I also used GE in the macro way to refine that point.
            – are you missing something with that? what? The name of my starting point? I won’t give it up until I have checked my solve to be good or bad.

            “WhatIF the hints in the book “only” give up the “starting Point” and this is what helps with the clues…”
            – IMO and only my opinion…..there is one hint in TTOTC for the starting point. Vague at best, but a hint nonetheless. I won’t reveal that information either. You will have to hope for the best and use imagination, I guess.

            “There’s more to the thought with after the fact comments for a check and balance, but that’s the line of thinking.”
            – not quite understanding this
            – but…I would think there are checks and balances in the first three clues. Well…in that sense….there really isn’t any balances present….anyhow.

            IMO – WWWH is south of hoB. To get to hoB, one must travel through some canyon for some unknown distance.
            – those seem to check each other, why do you say they don’t?

            Good stuff!


          • Hey Tim,
            I think you miss understood me… don’t worry, most do. I’m trying to look at the book and the poem in a different than what as been talked about… these question are not ‘about’ your solve, as much as, how your solve ‘relates to the information’ we all have. {asked you because you used the term “starting point”}

            LOL… so really, this is all your fault.

            I was wondering if the poem, in your opinion, holds the “starting point” [nothing dealing with a clue at all]
            If you think the poem holds the “starting point” as the first clue?
            OR is your “starting point” related to something from the book only?

            I’m trying to word my questions just right… I hope this helps… for the purpose of the questions lets use these definitions

            Definition of starting point: a place where the clues are at.

            Definition of clue; Something needed to be deciphered that gets you to the chest.

            I’ll ask the same question to anyone that wants a go at them…

          • Hey @Seeker…if I misunderstood, my apologies…but I don’t think I did. Let’s begin again with your questions.

            “I was wondering if the poem, in your opinion, holds the “starting point” [nothing dealing with a clue at all]
            If you think the poem holds the “starting point” as the first clue?
            OR is your “starting point” related to something from the book only?”

            Just my opinion….
            The book holds a vague hint to the starting point. The first stanza holds that same vague hint. The starting point is then hinted to, through the phrase “in the wood”…apparently huh?

            So to answer your questions…yes…to all three. Fenn isn’t making it simple for us.

            Remember…it is difficult, not impossible, so it is solvable and somewhere in between difficult and impossible.

            You have to think outside the box.

            Tell you what….and I’ve said this before. Fenn went looking for adventure through L&C. I did over four years ago.

            I’d start there.

            Go look for an adventure….it is what Fenn wants.

          • Seeker,

            You’ve posted above a set of questions for Tim and for anyone else that wants a go at them.

            I’m curious what answers you would provide to the set of questions you’ve presented.

        • Tim,

          How many clues have you released?
          “There are 9 clues in a poem that is in my book, The Thrill of the Chase, and I gave a few clues on the Today Show.”

          (27:00) “There are 9 clues in the poem, the clues are in consecutive order”

          Mr. Fenn, when you said not associated with any structure did that mean all 9 clues or just where the chest sits? Thanks, d
          “Yes d, it means the treasure is not hidden in or about a structure. Google “structure” for more information.f”

          You need to get rid of a couple things you think are clues & maybe move them to hints IMO.

          I do like your hints list & most of your clues list but I think 11 is overkill & unfounded & will remain that way.

          • Hey @Jake Faulkner

            That is what makes this puzxle/quest/journey….etc such fun.

            We all get to do it out own way.

            That is the beauty of it, huh?

            Fenn played it well.

            No need to worry on my choices, as I don’t worry about yours. I’m playing fair and still within the assigned ballpark. I’m playing by the rules set out in front of me by FF and hopefully am playing it accurately.

            Soon I will know.

          • To expect sense from two mentalities of such extreme viewpoints is not logical. LLAP

            Do it your way.
            It’s the only way to find out it’s the wrong way.

            Hit the BK there & have it your way cause 11 clues in not the right way.


          • Then I will have to find out this early summer, won’t I?

            I’m good with that.

            I think you may keep forgetting, I’ve only gone out on one trip…whereas others have found out they have been wrong well passed 30 “wrog solves”.

            The really didn’t listen to Forrest very good, huh?

            In my first trip, I discovered – in which I think is a very viable WWWH and went with it this time around. anow after two years of investigation of that spot, I can say my 2nd trip is well worth my time and expense.

            we will see….won’t we?

            But don’t let this stop you from posting ideas and thoughts, because I will continue to use what is said out here to bust it open. So far, nothing has.

            Good luck sir…and most of all…have fun…..and be unsophisticated for a while.


          • Hey Jake….I was rereading your question about if I have revealed any clues.

            In a vague way…yes I have….now some could consider them as hints to clues, because I didn’t devuldge what those hints mean to my clues.

            To be honest…any clue I define with specifics, believe it or not, can lead you to my specific area and possibly (since I have not checked it yet) a successful search.

            Literally speaking…that is the truth.

            One must know where to begin in order for the checks to be applied.

            The poem seems to be constructed with that infastructure embedded.

            I just can’t be of more help on that question.

        • Hey Tim. Just to show something I noticed in SB 172:

          “At my home I cut the post to fit, tarred the bottom 24” and placed it back in the ground. Then I mounted the bell on top.”

          Interesting is the “tarred” used here.

          • Hi “Al”.

            Hmmm….tarring the bottom of wood before you place it in the ground is probably so the wood does not rot away and degrade.

            So we know he uses “tar”.

            This is a good thing for us seekers, as we now can surmise that “tarry” is a relative term to describe a marking of some sort……”inadequately” (scant).

            So one must really have an “eagle eye” / marvel gaze to see what it is.

            Interestingly enough….I’ve been working on this part for a few months, trying to determine what exactly these two words represent.

            I’m now a firm believer that “tar” was used in marking the location of the TC.

            Thanks for the nudge.

          • Alsetenash,
            It’s a very common practice to tar a wood post when placing in the ground… rot, water and insect protection.

            What’s interesting about it?
            Do you think fenn tarred the chest?
            could you give a hint to what is interesting…

          • Goodness! I hope F did not “tar” anything, especially that beautiful sculpted bronze box!

            IMO tarry is to “pause” and scant is a “brief moment.”

            Take a “moment” and “behold” your find! Look with Marvel gaze; enjoy this one brief moment in time and that you alone have captured!

            Love how purple and yellow flowers follow each other! Just like Thunder and lightning play together!

          • Seeker. Seem there is a reply button only under me and not your reply.

            Yes, it is common to tar a pole for that purpose.

            What is interesting is the choosing to say that. Where as, avoiding the mention of it would not be noticed by omitting it as a process of said common process and its purpose . So by saying it , it was a purposeful hint to a clue that was given in plain sight-not noticed .IMO. Tarry-Tarred. Or it means nothing of such in hint . Just something I noticed.

          • Sheryl Lynn. I would not even think he would do that to the bronze chest-that is not what I meant at all lol.

            Tarry could mean to “Pause” also for sure as a possibility . It is a common thought. I am just pointing out that he “tarred ” the pole and I am a bit surprised there is no noise about it at all here. I guess if there is nothing pertaining in solves that can be seen by his words and stories then hints will go unnoticed -in plain sight.

            A belief is not necessarily at truth, for it is subjective to perception. Truth is what it is, never what it isn’t.

          • Alsetenash,

            Well, fenn is very detailed in almost everything he write and talks about… SB stories, more than most. I think that is why many think fenn is handing out hints and clues like candy…Some even think he’s sending them answers to their e-mails, sent to him, and doing it by way of the blog for fair play deniability.

            I mean just read the first few comment of most SB’s and you’ll read thing like ‘ fenn is giving us great hints in this SB or there are a lot of clues in this one…

            I guess it’s just me… If any of that is remotely true… 170 SB’s Q&A’s etc… we all might as well pack it in… all those “Extra” clues and hints, and we still can’t even figure 9 clues in a 24 line poem.

            Trust me, lol, I wouldn’t feel bad if true… I’d be completely embarrassed that there are “more” clues and hints floating around, than “words” in the poem, and seven years later, and no discover.

          • Seeker,

            Ya, I can see what you mean. Belief can be powerful when perception is given credence inherent by the absence of provable facts . I am not saying of those that think those things you say are wrong or right. I couldn’t know for certain the truth of any of their thinking is fact or fiction. If everyone followed the same path of thinking everyone would end up at the same spot. Or arrive at a different spot only because they started from a different starting point but achieved the same result due to same thinking.

            Theories always remain theories until a truth is discovered and it becomes a fact-no longer a theory. To me, that is why imagination is important. Imagine the theory in the mind with unlimited possibilities , then test in the material world with well grounded applications and analysis.

            I do think the person that finds the TC is probably going to be one of the oddest ducklings in the pond. lol.

          • Mr. Fenn is certainly a nice gentleman, but he is a great trickster. He enjoys that aspect of his personality. Don’t think for a minute that he won’t use terms and words in his SB’s that will play with your mind.

            Don’t fall for it, don’t dwell on it. he said he would not divulge any more USEFUL clues. Stick to finding the 9 clues and what they mean. It’s all in the poem. He said so.

          • Samsmith. That is good advisement. It is not a new clue I am inferring. It is a use of a word relative to a similar one in the poem. It is used as one of the potential uses of the same root word in the poem. Just saying I noticed it.

            “Stick to finding the 9 clues and what they mean. It’s all in the poem. He said so.”

            I have my 9 clues in the poem and I am complete with it. Just need to go and try my location. I will do this once. If I come up empty that is ok too. I am not so serious about this.

            Have you figured the 9 clues and searched or going searching, Samsmith?

        • I think Seeker is finally catching on to how the the hints in TTOTC work in concert with the clues in the poem. The couple of hints only point to the starting point.
          I don’t agree with Seeker’s definitions of what ‘starting point’ and ‘clue’ are.

      • Jake,
        I’m sorry that you have ringing the the ear, my brother has that condition. I have heard there. Are new devices that help, I don’t know if I personally could deal with that condition too much noise! There are so many health issues in like, some have to deal with, just keep on smiling!
        Best regards, Martha

    • I agree with you about the number of clues. It doesn’t really matter how many there are. They are all tied together anyway to lead you to one final spot. I think that clues with lines that do not end in punctuation, like WWWH and TIITCD, could be considered one clue.

  4. WWMH, In the clouds, Water high and heavy loads, when they become to heavy crossing mountains they send it in the canyon down, That doesn’t narrow it done though. HOB, Anyone thought of a beaver pond, can’t remember anyone saying.

    • Jonr,
      Searcher have indicated the first two clues because the have told fenn ‘where they have been’… would wwwh be either one of those first clues?

  5. Tim—
    One of my favorite SB’s is #146. You mentioned something above that made me think immediately of #146:

    “Both peppermint and spearmint plants grow in great abundance at the waterfall, blocking most of the splashing water from our view. The blossoms on top of the mint attract bees from all around the neighborhood. I think they like the purple hue.”

    All the best to you! –Sparrow—

  6. its my opinion that – where warm waters halt and heavy loads and waters high and no paddle up your creek are all in the same place -or all are one – or how ever you want to put it

    • Hey frank,
      I too think that is likely… but what is it you’re talking about?
      I have a few thoughts, one being a description of a waterfall and reason why the stanza are written the way they are.
      In another theory, It’s no water at all, but contained water high.. and all in one location [ relatively small location ]

      How does your thoughts bring them together?

      • well seeker – first you have to be at wwwh and that to is heavy loads and waters high where no paddle up your creek is also part of it ( its my opinion that its not a water fall ) ill give you this much – its a large body of water and its not a dam -all this is my opinion

      • seeker its a reservoir that is wwwh- waters high only means a direction of travel – if you go to the highest end in elevation of wwwh which is north that would be waters high – no paddle means don’t go that way where water is being released go north to waters high – that’s why I say that wwwh and hlawh and no paddle are one – imo

    • Frank – I think I might believe ‘as I have gone alone in there’, ‘I can keep my secret where’, ‘but tarry scant with marvel gaze, just take the chest and go in peace’, ‘so why is it that I must go and leave my trove for all to seek’, and ‘if you are brave and in the wood’ may all be the same place myself.

      It kinda gets all twisted up though when others think these may be upwards of six or seven of the clues.

      • I always thought the nine sentences in the poem were the nine clues.

        I found a decent home of Brown near dallas colorado. There is a homer brown spring nearby. Or maybe it’s more simple and just Browns canyon.

      • JMC – this is my opinion – there is only one man made structure in the poem and that’s not where the chest is – and there is only 3 large land formations in the poem that we should be looking for as far as I can tell – I also agree with you imo it is the same place

    • There are, according to Fenn, 9 clues in the poem. I’ve never seen anything that implied anything other than contiguous clues and each clue will get you closer to the chest.

      “But if you knew the geographic location of each clue it would be a map to the treasure. f”

  7. FF has said on multiple occasions that there’s 9 clues in the poem. People have figured out the first two clues and went past the other seven, etc… The name of this thread is even called ‘The Nine Clues’. If you got more than nine clues from the poem you’re probably doing something wrong (IMO).

  8. imo none of the places in the poem are places that you don’t have to go to only know where they are – so when it says – from there its no place for the meek – I think that meek means – no place to seek- because the next line is the end is ever drawing nigh – to me this means that the chest is farther away and to the left jmo

  9. Seeker…I was reading your responses to Tim Zoso in reference to his methodology…use of hints/clues/starting point etc. This seems to come back to the age old discussions about poem only vs. poem and book to come up with the winning solve. It would be interesting to see your possible write-up and how your perspective has evolved from earlier points of view. For example poem purist to poem + book and then poem book and GE and/or a good map. Given the failure rate so far…it does strike a chord as to whether searchers are evolving in the right direction…or are they moving fatefully in the wrong direction in how to decipher the clues.
    Truthfully…I still believe that the whole process is probably so basic that it seems impossible to go down that road with confidence. One thing for sure…the more time that goes by and the more stories heard and offered by all(including Fenn) the muddier the waters will become. I know that many hang on every word( naturally so) Fenn utters, to the point that some believe he is secretly leading someone/all straight to Indulgence. Could be…but if so…why believe anything?
    I keep coming back to…”If you don’t know where it is, go back to the first clue.” Seems arbitrary, but I believe this is more prophetic than appears….

    • Most FF statements are so ambiguous I don’t see how they could lead anyone anywhere and that’s probably by design. Even his dreams and fantasies go to play in the mountains and river bottoms. Mountains AND river bottoms! LOL

      • Hi @ J Smith…

        You r thinking is why I encourage others to …

        1. Definitely think outside the box
        2. Understand that they have to literally “stumble” upon the starting point.

        I could start providing these stumbles, but shoot, they are so clear as to what they mean, I’d basically be saying….”here are the directions…go get it!”…..”will you think of me when you arrive at the destination?” “Would I even be involved at a later time to share in the wealth?”

        Those all would probably be answered with, “probably not”. That is why I have offered up a ROI for anyone willing to take a risk with me.

        Clearly one needs boots on the ground in the region, in order to BETTER understand the meaning(s) of the destination and how they are played out within the poem.

        Good luck to you sir.

        • Thanks for the offer Tim but I’m stricking to the poem (for now) because it’s purpose was to guide searchers to the chest. You can’t really say that about some of the other sources people have been trying to use. And to be totally honest the poem is hard enough. I don’t have the time or the energy to extract additional clues from FF comments, books, other searchers, etc… that may or may not exist. Again this is just my approach and it’s by no means for everybody or anybody but me.

          Thanks again and good luck to you as well.

          • Yep, it’s on video that a news reporter did about Forrest. The reporter even says I don’t know why Forrest said nine times. Lol

          • Fenn’s own list of best resources to solve poem(not theories offered by others)…The poem, TTOTC(book), GE(Google earth) and/or a good map.

          • Not to mention the fact that f’s best advice for serious searchers is to essentially read the poem nine times then read the book looking for little things that trip up in your head. These such things you are looking for are hints that help with the clues.

            My reasoning for why that is important to follow is that the couple of hints are easier to solve than finding the correct starting point by just reading the poem. Simple logic…

          • fundamentaldesign
            One of the reasons I post many of fenn’s statements is some of the posters paraphrase them {myself included, at times}.
            Another reason is, I believe they are good tools, advise, helpful. { you can read into that anyway ya like }.
            More than often I posts them to make a point that might help explain my line of think or theories.
            The most important reasoning is… to make sure “our” paraphrasing doesn’t become mixed in a facts that fenn stated them.
            Examples: 12′ comment, a child can walk right to the chest… just to reference a couple.

            “There are hints in my book that will help you with the clues, but a clue will point you toward the treasure chest and a hint will just help you with the clues, if you can understand that.”

            This comment is, in part, the reason for my inquiry and questions about hints in the book and a new thought of what hints do for the poem… along with your {paraphrasing} another, which does have mistakes and possibly two similar related comments in one… Not intentional, I’m sure… but our own thoughts of what we think its saying.

            I’d like to note that the above quote { in-regards to my questions } involves Hint[s] in the book… and “a hint will just help you with the clues, if you can understand that.”

            In my thoughts of using the after the fact comments as a tool and a check and balance for a theories… exact wording imo is needed…
            Not unlike the “12′ comment’ that folks ran with and quoting as correct information coming from fenn… I think we need to be careful how we paraphrase, So another/blogger doesn’t start a landslide and it becomes false – truth.
            Even if other’s whine about it.

            Sorry I used ‘you’ to make ‘my’ point…But I know you won’t take it personal.

          • Fundamental:
            Here is the quote that I think you were referencing:
            “There are nine clues in the poem, and the clues are in consecutive order. If you want to find the treasure chest – you have my book there – I’ll tell you how to do it. Read the book just normally … the poem and the rest of the book, and then go back and read the poem 6, 8, 10 times – study every line, every word. Then after you do that, read the book again, slowly, with the idea of looking for clues or hints, that are in the book that will help you follow the clues. You can find the chest with just the clues, but there are hints in the book that will help you with the clues.” f JDa

          • Yep, thanks JDA for that quote. F has said it many times and in slightly different ways. So, I don’t find the need to go find the exact quote like Seeker does. What it means is what’s important to me and so I post about those possibilities.

            Seeker, when you say that this is new thinking in regards to TTOTC hints pointing to the starting point, do you mean new thinking to you or you haven’t seen that before from any searcher?


    • Ken.

      You said:
      “One thing for sure…the more time that goes by and the more stories heard and offered by all(including Fenn) the muddier the waters will become.”

      It was at least 4 years ago that searchers were said to be within 500″ or 200″. So, what you say is a good point. From then until now nothing has changed; just a lot of more added info to sift through. Maybe searchers were closer then due to the less added noise of info (mud) since that time until now.

      • But at the same point to make those persons didn’t know they were that close. All the info I have read sure has assisted me in thinking about the poem though. Just as those that were close and walked right passed the other clues; the clues could simply be overlooked due to being in plain sight. Easily seen easily missed?

        • I think it may be a bit more tricky than that…it may be that even though they had indicated the first two clues…they were not aware of it.

          • Ken. I may sound bit out there with this. In my imaginations of this scenario of the persons being 500″ and 200″. I think its possible that in their first 2 clues that brought them to the area ; they then couldn’t put together the rest of the clues where they were. So, they just went about their day enjoying the day in the area. Walking around enjoying to sights and nature around. Being out of focus without searching on the mind. They could have actually been close to the chest not realizing they were on the right path to it at that point. So, in communication with FF about where they were and the sights they saw, he would have recognized their proximity. Unbeknownst to them, that they were on the path without even being aware of it because they figured they were wrong to begin with. Just IMO. It is a possible scenario to me. In plain view without the conscious focus.

      • I appreciate your post but there’s one missing detail that makes it not true. There’s has been a thing or two that has changed since the 500′ and 200′ comments I believe.

        A few searchers have focused on a word that is key. This could be entirely more important than how close in physical distance some have been to the resting spot of the tc.

        The other point is f said 4 clues may have been figured but he’s not sure…so that’s a possibility. These are things that suggest something has progressed since the 500′ and 200′ comments.

        • Fundamentaldesign. Your honor , I was surmising with my imagination -not admonishing facts lol. Yes, by location description by persons ,4 could have been solved , perhaps it was 2 specific ones they mentioned at the time. Or I could mean another person(s) later on could be the reason for the mention too. All things are possible with speculation. I am just speculating.

          • Alsetenash~ “Yes, by location description by persons ,4 could have been solved , perhaps it was 2 specific ones they mentioned at the time.”
            The comment was “first 4 clues”
            Wouldn’t that kinda, sorta say that one person mentioned it ? and not so much… perhaps it was 2 specific ones they mentioned at the time.

            LOL, I could be reading your comment wrong, if so… not to worry… it still made me think. That’s all I every hope for.

          • Seeker. I did intent the word “It” After OR and not “I” if that makes me sound different lol. ” Or IT could mean….

            They could have mentioned 4 clues and not 2. Of course we can only speculate these things due to not knowing any “facts” about these things lol.
            What I was attempting to postulate was that the persons could have said 2 specific clues but where they said they were is where they would be if they had solved 4 clues. Or it could be 2 completely different sets of persons he is referencing in his 2 references of the 2 clues then of the 4 clues.
            Nothing to get caught up on though . It doesn’t help me in anyway with any clues. Knowledge is handy for sure, but imagination is more important than knowlege. Especially with poetry! Poetry is part knowlege and part imagination..IMO.

          • Seeker. Your head hurts! Sorry man but that is incentive! HAHA.

            On this blog the words are white and the background is black. We read here in black and white. Whether it is FF stories or our comments. We see all of FF’s quotes, guidelines and stories here in black and white. There is color in the words that the eyes don’t see. But we sense the rainbow of colors that stir us from the words. Imagination is important. It gives visual and inspiration with the words-that is poetry. There is always colors around the black and white. Every story FF has posted on here is full of colors the white of the eyes may not see, but they open the portal of imagination. You may not think nor see hints and eludes in his stories but I do. I see contiguous patterns. I calculated by such a thesis that his next post will have “Bells” within his next story. Bringing in the 3rd contiguous . If one has imagination, then one can see messages in Plain Sight. If not, then all they see is what is in black and white. Within 2 hours of me stating as such:

            “Bells jingled as he rode at headlong speed, followed by the leading warriors, all eager to outstrip him in the race.”

            Just saying :). If your head hurts, maybe some sunshine and fresh mountain air may be medicinal.

            Cheers Seeker! I am shaking your hand.


            The race is on!

          • Alsetenash,
            I’m going to be philosophical, psychology and logically {with a hint of fortune cookie for dessert} for a moment.

            Your Black an White theme works great to the need for imagination… “logically” Black and White involves all colors of the rainbow { reflect and absorb }

            I think, imaginations gets us to the facts {philosophical and logical} and leaves out the psychology, which can lead to irrational and emotional tangents.
            Through imagination, facts can be collected for a theory to be tested… but it is facts we desire for the outcome to be correct… letting those tangent rule might be the down fall of a theory.

            My example would be this… many [ and these words are used often ]
            are trying to Find Fenn. Right or Wrong… is this the only way the poem can or even should be read?
            We have his memoirs and many simply want to follow in his footsteps as if he is personally leading us to solve the challenge.
            All I ask for are discussions about WhatIF’s there are other options…

            But I’m pickin up what ya puttin down… imagination and all. But where the imagination of only seeing the poem, from staring at fenn’s backside.

            I doubt that is what fenn meant by canyon down. If others want to call that abstract thinking… I’m reminded of this;
            All I know are the facts, if you want the truth go next door to the psychology department.f

          • Seeker.
            Oh boy. Always fixed but never broken in the first place!

            I like this quote and it sums up what you have said:

            “The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.”

            IMO.Seeing and being black and white of the mind with this Chase will result in nothing but the dust of gray sitting on a mantel.

            We choose what we choose.
            No one is right or wrong….YET!
            There is only one way to know for sure, and that is going and testing your theory. Otherwise we have to wait for someone else to let us know.

          • Not sure what that all means but you said from then till now nothing has changed….after the 500′ and 200′ comments.
            That’s what I u was coien ting to. Not sure how surmising with imagination plays into that.

    • Ken~ “…it does strike a chord as to whether searchers are evolving in the right”… Yep, In fenn’s words “…best adjust…”
      My own version has never really change because I really don’t adhere to one single thought process. Those long ago discussion, poem purist to botg only. never really talked about what the book “actually does” for the poem. { notice I used poem and not clues here }

      Most botg thinkers used the book for answers to locations or what the clues refer to. {In my mind, that is the same.}

      The poem purist thinkers that the book is helpful, as informative for thought, but not “needed’ because the poem should stand on it’s own. { remember, this was before a lot of the comments we have today }

      I have a slightly different, new thought… call it adjusting or evolving if ya like… but the book does help with the clues, but not gives answers to the clues. I know that still sounds like a poem purist approach. But, I’ll add the book ‘is’ needed to help. I know that sounds like the Botg approach.

      What I’m looking into and using as many after the fact comments as a check and balance, that the book only tells the ‘starting point’ which helps with the clues because, without it, it’s all a dart toss. Oh sure, the first two clues could and more than likely be found on a map… but that doesn’t say the searcher knows where the clues are.

      I send my thought to a couple of guys who are as hard headed as me, to look over every aspect for a theory test…even if we completely disagree on our own different solves and approaches to date. I’m holding off for their input before I write up something.

      That’s the basic thought… But I don’t work on basic… I need a theory that can at least be tested with a high probable ability rate… that ‘certainty beforehand.’ and not Oh! “MY location fit so well.” And I’m looking for those folks who actually want to discuss different thoughts with a dissecting manner to that.
      I hope I get your feed back, Ken, to be honest.

      Other wise I’m just going to be another… I know where it is… and then crawl back with my tail between my legs with lame excuses.
      Yep, don’t expect me to hand out the fluffinutter as they drop one by one… I’m at least honest enough to say…I’m still working to understand it.

      • Hi @Seeker

        You do bring something to the table….and I also believe you adhere to the “secrecy” of the hunt.

        In my view…it is what Fenn has instructed us to do so – being so, is not all that wrong.

        I also understand that just because I say I have a completed solve, I won’t know if it is correct until I do have BOTG, because GE does don’t give you any help after solving it from your chair. That is why the Indian girl can never retrieve the TC. She needs to be physically there.

        I also don’t expect one iota of the seekers to even think I am working to end this. I really only believe one thing….proof it has been found. I intend to give that proof…..and it will be done on my time, not what others want.

        Is this me overblowing the confidence level?

        Maybe…maybe not.

        One needs confidence to set out to seek.
        One needs confidence in themselves to go out and seek.
        One uses confidence to overcome obstacles while they seek.
        One needs confidence in all of these in order to even start this journey.

        What can be visualized, can be achieved.


        Be positive….I am.

        Good luck to you sir.

      • Seek—“crawl back with my tail between my legs with lame excuses”

        Is this what ff thinks every time someone shares their adventure(s) with him?
        IMO, you’re missing out bro. When you are elderly, sitting around with other geezers gumming your food, don’t you want to be able to one- up someone with a tale of adventure?

          • Jake,
            What can I say? A fool and his money will soon departed.

            If you don’t have the first clue nailed down don’t call…
            anyone remember who might has said this?

          • “Fools are those that make a choice on not making a choice”
            Money doesn’t go beyond the portal but choices do.

        • 9clues.. you know exactly what I meant… I even add the “I know where it is” searchers clause.
          You know the ones ..{ you’ve been around long enough and read the same as everyone else }.. who come on the blog claiming fenn is secretly telling them they are correct, or the I know for a fact within 12′ and all the others I know for a fact, group.

          And when the day is done, get back on the blog and tell all their new epiphanies they thought of the way home, and the “I know” start all over once more.

          I have many tales of woodland experiences, fishing trips, hunting trips, mountain hiking, out of the way places stories… {although I never been to a dessert, unless Vegas counts} This is a challenge… I’m attempt to solve it, Nothing more.

          Don’t get me wrong I enjoy the stories of other tracking through those places. So, I ask… have you ever read somewhere me downing a searcher for a story?

          Honestly, I’m not missing anything… I go where I like, when I can, I certainty don’t need an excuse.

          • I decided to actually go and check out a spot I have in mind and read the poem to. For me it is more of a personal challenge to see if I actually solved another crime lol. It is just how I approached this in mental process of reading and gathering evidence lol. I just want to know if I am right. Money can be made and replaced. I am hoping May or June I will go. Succeed or not, this has been fun anyways.

          • All I can say is this Seeker.
            If your drawings never come off the drawing board, you will never know what you have drawn.

            The line is drawn, but you don’t pass it.

          • I agree with Jake: Get out there and walk around in the Rockies; it’s kind of the point of this whole thing that Forrest started.

          • I personally love the stories of the searchers you are describing here, Seeker. There stories don’t bother me one bit. Not sure why they bother others. Maybe that drive and confidence they have is a secret way that f designed the clues to be unlocked. You may be missing something when you yell boo hoo someone is boasting. Ya might have to think deeper than get miffed at their game plan.

          • Just so the blog patrons understand me a little better…..

            I may boast in my solve, because I have the optimism that it is accurate.

            I boast to push others to that same edge, as I have done, in order to boost their own confidence in their solves.

            I don’t intend to post those instances to pat my own back, but to help others with completing their solve.

            Any of you may take what I,as and use it…or lose it as some have already done.

            So be it.

            I’m out here in the thick of the hunt like many…..and will continue to be so until this quest ends with someone letting the world know it has been completed.

          • Tim, that reminds me of the old saying; misery loves company. Hey everyone, I’m delusional and absolutely sure about my solution so you should do the same. 🙂

            Or maybe like Tom Sawyer when he convinced all his friends that whitewashing the fence was great fun.

          • LOL Goofy….very funny!!

            Nah…it isn’t anything like that….I’m just trying to have some friendly competition badgering….every game has some sort of level.

            I for surely don’t mean to offend or even cause waves….just more thinking.

            Of you have read other posts by me….I do say a lot of my ideology and theorize what its…because they exist.

            If they can be eliminated…them great…less to worry about.

            I’m just saying….and I am quite harmless….unless you ……..oh nevermind….if I say, then I’d have to kill ya.


      • Seeker…I am not going to blow perfumed, purple and yellow smoke up your you know what, and throw a party for myself because I am certain about anything.
        I will say that(repetitive) I believe the method to this madness is much more simple(basic) than what folks believe. Perhaps my view is shaded by my positive position in regards to the first clue. To say what it is, will not come from my lips…though I have hinted a bit here and there. This did not come to me by way of the book in a literal way. The book(TTOTC only) in fact has not really given me any hardcore hints at all. The hints I have gleaned from reading it hundred times(not really) are merely glimpses about “how” Fenn thinks and “what” he thinks about various things. To those who think otherwise…GOOD for you/hurray!
        The adjustments you touch on/ability to adjust… is a critical avenue in my scenario. There are a couple of clever curveballs along the way that may cause a stutter or three in forward progress…but not a biggie if adjustable.
        If you are looking for a direct “starting point” in TTOTC…good luck. If there is one…(direct/specific) maybe I can get Jake to eat his hat for me. HA HA…
        I can see mine vaguely if I look at a lot of things “figuratively” as a whole…but not in your face here it is.
        BOTG…”theoretically” is an understatement in terms of complete solve before BOTG. It has literally taken me years to get where I am…and the exact end is…close…but not hand grenade close. Go ahead folks…yuck it up…but when you all keep failing and retreating to start over…or quit…Think about all of the good folks who we do not see or hear from ever again. Hundreds !
        I am willing to invest a trip here or there just to learn what I can’t see from my office. Pictures sometimes do not do justice, what up close and personal can. I like travel anyway…always have and always will.
        THE first clue is a killer. Without that…there is nada.
        I fluffed you know who recently…but just to be the bigger person. I still want my advance. And do not worry…there are a whole string of them coming up soon. That’s my odds room opinion.
        If you have the means and have a partial solve…head on out and see it firsthand…I bet it will NOT be what you thunk from the chair.

        • I will not eat my hat for you ken.
          I think both you guys don’t have what it takes.
          One is sucking his thumb & the other is cutting it off.

        • Thanks Ken,
          I say that because of your honesty be hind the posting.
          Like you said, there are many who don’t post… for what ever reason the don’t… I like to ask certain question and place thought to get them to jump in… [in part] I dare say some may have been at this longer than most here. Would it be nice to ear from them.

          Also, as you said, you go out learn what you can, you enjoy traveling, anyways.
          So do many many searcher like yourself, without all the ego chest puffing and I know BS…
          seriously, it’s old, it’s tiring, it’s nothing more than an ego boost slap in the face to all… it sad really. And lately all it does is disrupt what use to be a place to have many discussion… disagreements and health debating of them.

          But god for bid, if ya call one out…

      • Seeker – Please don’t take this the wrong way.

        Why won’t/don’t you search for F’s treasure? Why do you use his statements as a crutch for almost every response you make?

        In life and in this hunt you have to act. You have to try things, learn from things, and move forward no matter what. You seem like you are stuck in a vortex that won’t allow you to move forward.

        Come up with something original and test it out. What do you have to lose? Sure it might cost you time and money but it’s costing you plenty right now to sit there and repeat everything that f has said over and over.

        I would encourage you to take a trip and explore the Rockies even if you aren’t searching for f’s treasure box. You have nothing to lose and a lot to gain.

        • Well HMA,
          Ya’ll like to say you hear fenn and listen good and when he stated certain things he feels are necessary… Just like the one above… don’t have the first clue nailed down, don’t go, and many, many other common sense statements… many ignore them as well.
          Some of the fool hardy certainties and over confident attitudes and ego-typical have gotten some in deep water for plain stupidity of their confidence… and worse.

          Others literally state as fact… and use that word… the complete opposite of fenn’s statements and suggestions.
          Yet, you want to know why I haven’t gone on a search as of yet…? and want to preach to me about life…
          You have absolutely no idea or concept of anything in my life time.

          What is really interesting here is, only two people out of all those responded to the original posting with the questions… attempted to answer the questions.

          I really feel the urge to place all those fenn warnings and suggestion of what the author says about the do’s and don’t do’s… but why bother. It would take a 7 years to repeat them. But you go right ahead and call them a crutch… I call it common sense.

          • Seeker,

            If you like living in a little box and not living life then go ahead. Most everyone else wants to live. It’s human nature to explore and try out things. Just keeping asking the same questions over and over and you will never take a step forward.

            “Life is a game of poker, Happiness is the pot. Fate deals you four cards and a joker, And you play whether you like it or not.”

            It appears you don’t want to accept the cards you’ve been dealt. That’s okay. The rest of us will continue to play with the cards we were dealt.

          • There ya go again, HMA, Assuming you know anything about me and how I live my life… and at the same time, speak for “everyone else”.. “the rest of us”…you’re ridiculous beyond words.
            Wag the tail now… summer is around the corner.

          • Seeker –

            If you don’t act in life there may be no summer for you. As I said before don’t take my comments the wrong way. I just don’t see you as a participant in the hunt because you only repeat what f has said over and over without any actions.

            Have a good evening Seeker.

          • Seeker—-
            I live in California and have never done a physical search either. I don’t want to go for a search until I am fairly certain I have solved some of the clues. So I fully understand what you are saying.

            I personally do enjoy many of your ideas and questions and wanted you to know that. I think the blog is enriched by your ideas.

            Maybe we can do a joint search one day. I would just ask that you stay in the car while I retrieve the treasure. 🙂

      • Thanx Seeker, for these words – “That’s the basic thought… But I don’t work on basic… I need a theory that can at least be tested with a high probable ability rate… that ‘certainty beforehand.’ and not Oh! “MY location fit so well.” – almost verbatim on how I am working on things.

      • Seeker, I think you’re finally coming around to making sense with your new theory. It’s not like this theory you speak of hasn’t been out there for a long time on the blogs. It totally makes sense and isn’t that hard to see that it’s viable.

  10. Just VGBOSS thoughts:

    Is Mr. Fenn himself searching for a “treasure” via the Poem through searchers? Me thinks yes.

    Is Mr. Fenn himself searching for an “answer (s)” to a question and/place via the Poem through searchers? Me thinks yes.

    Is Mr. Fenn himself also searching for the “Title” of the solve/gold via the Poem through searchers? Me thinks yes.

    X “Be sure to listen in”

    • Are you implying there is an ulterior motive/underlying message, other than simply offering up a treasure hunt with a monetary reward for the solver?

      • Sparrow thanks they’re only questions that I ponder at times. Just VGBOSS thoughts such as this thought here: When I read the Poem it seems as though Mr. Fenn is talking with himself, telling himself what to do, how to go about his quest, and how he will know he found what he is searching for.

        X Be sure to listen in!

  11. So we all know that according to Forrest searchers have been within 200′ and/or 500′ of the chest.

    Please correct me if I am wrong, but I assume this includes 200’/500′ in vertical elevation too since he did not specify which applied.

    • Possible. We have choices of searchers being on level ground, needing to incline or decline 200-500′ in elevation.

    • If some were within 200′, it could mean in any direction or elevation.
      I would assume the 500′ statement came out 1st.
      I think they were on a labeled trail or creek.
      I don’t think they gave F coordinates.

      • Jake,

        A person may have mentioned going to a specific location and ff said, “some were within 200′.”

        A person may have proved that they walked past the treasure and ff would accurately say that “some were within 200′,” and “gold will again become alert to the tromp and vibrations of hiking boots.”

        A person may have walked with confidence right to the treasure, uncovered it, removed it and covered the site back as it was and ff would accurately say “some were within 200′,” and “gold will again become alert to the tromp and vibrations of hiking boots.”

        A scenario could exist where the -mysterious built-in notification system- would not be activated, IMHO.

        Under that scenario all would continue to have the the Thrill of the Chase, till the end of days.

  12. This of what I write will be opening up myself to criticism and ridicule. But, why not be different and imaginative -dare me not for I will.

    IMO: In Plain Sight

    The SB 171 and SB 172 are hints given in plain sight. The main one being SB 172. The Kiva A looks like it shows how the 9 clues flow in the poem. The circle represents the area of the poem and then the clues flow within the markers in the circle. Which is the one you start at? It is what I see using my imagination and what I have in my mind already about the poem. Ok, so he has posted 2 Bronze SB’s and 2 SB” about Bells in a flow of recent posts. If this is what I see and think, stupid or otherwise, lets just open our minds up if possible without criticism for a change of pace.

    Will there be a 3rd Bronze post story or will there be a 3rd story including bells?. I lean towards about bells included. Or for style why not say one about a bronze bell lol.

    “One ring means come to supper”
    “two means carry the trash out”
    “three means “Come at once, I need you.”

    SB 174 will be or won’t be about Bells.

    We’ll see!

    Just something different to think about.

    • Great thoughts. Alset. Makes me think of
      Go. By that pretense, would a third bell post indicate a green light?
      Not to twist ur words or thought (s) cause it’s great. Just adding what popped in my head for some reason.

      • Jdiggins. Nice! I like it. Green Go or say look quickly! Bronze turns green when wet!

          • Haha. Bronze(copper) will eventually turn green from moisture exposure over time. Statue Of Liberty is copper plated and was originally copper color but turned green . Indulgence is probably green now if it is exposed to moisture. Could be hidden,camouflaged in plain sight or look like a mucous membrane.

        • Actually, bronze does NOT turn green. Copper does!

          Unprotected areas of raw bronze will oxidize, or combine with oxygen present in the air, resulting in a thin film of copper oxide along the surface of the exposed bronze. The resulting appearance is a flat, dark brown surface.

    • Alsetenash – you have the right idea about sb 171 -172 and the hints or clues – for years ive said that new and old is a hole or pit in the ground and that it has a hole in the wall of this pit where he hid the tc – sb -172 – and other clues that he has given before – tells me that it is stanza one and the omega – this is just my opinion good luck

      • Frank. It is a strong possibility IMO also. A lot of his writings, stories and archaeology is Native American history . So, I think their history is prevalent in the poem. I knew a few Shamans in my life and one specific one helped me recover from a very bad illness 20 years ago. Medicine Wheel, Dream Catchers, Sacred Circle ect. The circle is prevalent in the history. When I saw that fella Cowlazars video yesterday where they used a type of excel spreadsheet for word directions and came up with ” Try The Circle” , I thought that was interesting.:) .

    • Hmm.
      SB 174:

      Was this in Plain Sight and generally missed again? Or will this be overlooked as coincidence? To me, 1,2,3 is synchronicity.

      “Bells jingled as he rode at headlong speed, followed by the leading warriors, all eager to outstrip him in the race.”

      It is within the main scene of the story!

      This race is on!

  13. Just VGBOSS thoughts:

    Title to the Gold found upon discovery of blaze, then quickly looking down, marvel gaze at the “twinkles & sparkles”, chest of “love and peace, go go decode Title to the Gold and quest to cease. X

    • Just another VGBOSS thought:

      I AM thinking Cessna 680. Hmmm has Mr. Fenn ever said or posted anything in reference to Cessna 680?

  14. Title to the Gold
    See Job
    Chapter 6
    8. Oh that I might have my request; and that God would grant me the thing that I long for!

  15. Seeker,
    Up thread you quoted:
    Mysterious Writings Posted on August 9, 2016 by Jenny Kile
    Hello Forrest,
    If in 500 years all a person has is the poem, and no back story: they don’t know “in the rocky mountains north of santafe” or that there are 9 clues etc. Could a person reasonably just use the words in the poem and find your treasure chest?
    Thank you ~Nope
    Thank you Nope. Nope. f

    And then you wrote:”I have my thoughts on this… but if the poem only… is a nope… Is wwwh really the “starting point”?”

    I won’t debate the ‘starting point’ part, and certainly 500 years presents it’s only challenges, but is this the the best take-away from what Fenn said? Is he really saying here that you can’t get the starting point from the poem after all the other times he has told us the poem contains all we need to know? And is the ‘500 years’ that important?

    Consider these other similar quotes:
    MW, Question posted 7/1/2014:
    Dear Forrest,
    You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:
    a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and
    b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”
    Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail? ~ Steve
    No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?

    Mysterious Writings 8-12-2014
    Someone unfamiliar with your poem receives a message that says “meet me where warm waters halt, somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”. Would they be able to work out where to go? If they can’t, would they need the whole poem, another stanza, or just a line or word to help them on their way? ~Phil Bayman
    There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them. You over simplify the clues. There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts. F

    Consider what all these statements have in common: “Someone unfamiliar with your poem”, “Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem”, “all a person has is the poem, and no back story’. I would submit that the common denominator as to why all these scenarios result in a negative statement is the missing parts of the poem or, more generically, lack of knowing what they are trying to achieve not that the poem by itself is insufficient. You need the poem, and you need to know that the poem represents a treasure hunt.

  16. Big Skip here:


    I have a question. I have been reading this blog for years and noticed that many subjects return for discussion every year or so.
    Seams like everything has been discussed at length some time in the past and simply reappear as new folks join the discussion and their questions resurface. That’s fine. But I am curious about one concept which has been discussed. Below is FF quote:

    “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search.”ff

    And he has commented something to the fact, “all you need is my book and a good map”. There are other quotes and comments that allude to the fact that searchers anywhere simply need to have his book (poem) and good maps. Taken in sequential order and “not messing around with the poem”, the clues and the map will lead you to the treasure.

    Does he actually believe that to be true? What I am referring to is the extensive amount of research that has been done by tens-of-thousands of searchers on every possible connection, name, place, geography, flora and fauna, altitude, history, water sheds, landmarks, etc., etc., and yet, no known discovery. Do searchers actually believe the success of the search is all in the book and maps,or does FF know it will take an extensive amount of research by a person with imagination and direction to figure out the clues and their relationship to a good map and has just failed to mention that? Can the redneck from Texas with the kids in the pickup really find the treasure? “All you need is the book and good maps”…. and a computer, search routines, aerial maps, Google earth, geography books, geology manuals, Dept. of Fish & Game outlines, State histories, Indian Lore, etc, etc.
    Hope someone out there is questioning the same issue.
    Looking for your comments
    Thanks again

    • I would enjoy having this discussion with you..
      But I’m going to sit back and see what bites.
      Warning you might be fishing in piranha waters

    • Big Skip,

      Sounds like you answered all your own questions in your first paragraph.

    • Big Skip;
      Since I am not holding the TC, All I can say is that in developing my solve, all that I have used has been the poem, the two books (from which I have gleaned a few hints that led to solving a couple of clues) by Forrest, TOPO maps and Google Earth, AND a very small amount of research on-line. Although I have no background in geology, I CAN see where a certain amount of geology is somewhat important. Without this basic knowledge certain “hints” might have been missed that have led to solving a particular clue. Hope this helps – JDA

    • Me keeping it simple…try to find a couple of hints in TTOTC point to the same geographical point. Your confidence goes up when the couple of hints meet at the same area. The first stanza also meets there. Then, begin it at wwwh takes over., IMO.

    • Big Skip – because this topic has been argued over and over so many times in the past, I too will be interested to see if there is much appetite to go through it all again. Maybe the new folks to the chase might take an interest.

      Quite frankly, I see it pointless to take a small handful of quotes from f and try to establish anything from it while excluding everything else he has said.

      In my ‘Chasing Words of Forrest Fenn – by Topic’ document, part of it is organized by f’s quotes and comments so a person can see what f has said about how to go about finding his chest. I think a person would be much better served learning and studying all those things f has said than trying to pointlessly argue from an inferior position of only a few quotes how to go about finding the chest.

      • JCM,
        I’m glad you pointed that out.
        ~’Quite frankly, I see it pointless to take a small handful of quotes from f and try to establish anything from it while excluding everything else he has said.’

        You can’t take a few and dismiss the rest…
        Even with the ATF statements, thought must go into them as well.
        I highly doubt fenn is handing out useful clues… however, I do believe he answers with honesty that is in line with his view of the poem, clues and information… more thought provoking than assisting.

        My simple definition of ‘useful’ clues, and I’ll add hints; Something that actually tells or directly point to a clue/hint that we are to decipher.

    • Hey Big Skip you can have the books and all that other stuff. The poem and a good map are all you really need. When FF said no special knowledge was required I believe it.

    • Big Skip,

      Of course Forrest believes what he says. He’s confident the right searcher can find the treasure with the poem, the book, and a good map.

      A searcher doesn’t need all the ancillary trivia you mention in your post. The poem and book are there for all searchers to read and ponder.

      A searcher has to really THINK….AND they have to think the RIGHT things.
      A searcher needs to be a good listener.
      A searcher needs to be a good observer.

      It’s very solvable, IMO, and when it’s solved, it will be so obvious to the solver, there will be no doubt remaining for the searcher…AND as he predicted, that person will be thinking “…what took me so long.”

      Forrest said himself that it would be difficult, but it’s by no means impossible, and I agree.

      • Hi, Big Skip. I think that the poems and maps are most important, but I also think that Forrest’s supplementary clues are equally important.

        When I say “supplementary clues” I do not mean the “subtle hints” that may or may not be hidden in Forrest’s books and various posts on this website. Rather, I am referring to the straightforward, plainly spoken, additional clues that Forrest has released to the general public over the years (e.g.: It’s not in a graveyard, it’s not in Utah or Idaho, etc. etc.). These are best summarized on the cheat sheet on this website, but I think it’s also worthwhile to look at the specific detailed accounts of his chosen words in each instance.

        The books, the various posts by Forrest on this site, the Q&A sessions on Mysterious Writings, and the rest are all nice to hunt through for subtle hints, but in my opinion not required to find the treasure.

    • Well Big Skip, like you said, we seem to rehash the same stuff over and over. But hey, maybe one day someone will come up with something new.

      What your questions seem to be asking is what method will be used to solve the poem. You are correct, there have been gigawatts of brain power used up by just about every conceivable type of person/profession on the planet burning up uncountable electrons accessing what is basically the sum total of human knowlege we have at our finger tips researching just about every topic known to man to figure out the poem.

      So that leaves us with the redneck and pickup. What would the redneck do? I imagine he would do exactly what Fenn did. He would go to a place and try to figure it out with his imagination and a map. Just like Fenn did at Blanco Canyon. Fenn wrote:

      Bill Griggs, and I searched relentlessly for the trooper’s grave. The evidence showed it to be somewhere about 46 miles north of where I lived.

      With Captain Carter’s original map in hand (I didn’t want to carry a copy.) Bill and I hiked on weekends. Back and forth across the grassy rises and rugged dips we walked, binoculars in hand. We were ever watchful for the errant pile of rocks that were deliberately placed to keep scavenging animals from digging.

      To me Fenn is screaming at us how to solve the poem. GET OFF THE MACHINES AND GET OUT THERE AND LOOK!!! Not one of the very smart people here has mentioned that on that post; that’s because it’s not what they want to hear.

      That’s just this dumb redneck’s opinion.

      • Goofy,

        You said:
        You are correct, there have been gigawatts of brain power used up by just about every conceivable type of person/profession on the planet burning up uncountable electrons accessing what is basically the sum total of human knowlege we have at our finger tips researching just about every topic known to man to figure out the poem.

        I’d give 1.21 gigawatts (or jigawatts) to figure out the starting point.

        I’ve lived a lifetime in the engineering world… logic, procedure, etc., but I feel that it will take some other way of thinking to solve this…, I am having difficulty finding “the method” {but that’s “engineering think”}…

        I’m at a stopping point, as I feel so many others are as well… Take a break, and think, think, think…

        Thoughts are welcome…

        • First stanza is a recipe…or should I be out looking for I don’t know what? I’m gonna wait to find the starting point.

        • Well Fennatical, I feel your pain, sounds like we both suffer from the same affliction. Actually I think we’re half way there. It’s going to take logic and reasoning to find the starting place. Like Fenn did when he would fly the canyons looking for places to go look. He said at times he could tell by the way the vegetation was growing where the dig sites would be. But once he got to the site his imagination would take over wondering about the artifacts he found.

          We just need to sharpen our imagination a little. The one sure way to fail is to stop looking.

        • Hey Fennatical, for me, there have been at times, me just not physically looking for information or even research the poem further and just kicked it wherever and thought about the clues themselves, how they sound, what they COULD mean, and even why where they written the way they were.

          If and when I was doing this, and I came across an idea that I didn’t think of before, I went ahead and did a quick internet query and see what it comes up.

          Keeping outside the box, yet always looking into the box, has been my method, and for me, if I managed to come up with two complete solves (all clues in the poem were functional for a path to follow), then IMO – my method isn’t too bad. In my eyes, it seems to be working for me.

          Is this the best way, probably not, as many think I am just “guessing”. In fact, I am not guessing at all.

          Hope you find one that works for you.

          Good luck to you!

      • yeah, but Goofy, Fenn and Grigs had a map that indicated the exact mesa, in Texas, that the grave is in proximity of.

        Heck, we ain’t gonna know if we’re even in the right state, unless we find the chest!

        So, where better to burn gigabytes, figuring it out, than here under your and Dal’s watchful, loving eyes?? 🙂

        Been meanin’ to ask ya….You ever forgive your little woman for buying you that dang book?? 🙂

        luv ya…………loco

        • HA! Loco, can’t believe you remember that story. To answer your question……Nope

          • LOL, ‘Maybe you can figure out what this Goofy old guy is saying…’
            And the rest is history.

      • I’d love to hear the best BOTG solve that the BOTG clan have heard. I’d like to see how complete it is and how once they didn’t find the tc how going there helped them get more info for an even better attempt to the same general area and a better search.

        There’s got to be a favorite solve by the BOTG clan… Let us see what you got.

          • Was thinking it would be best if a member of the BOTG clan nominated their favorite…I’m not a card carrying member. Lol

            Also, it’s hard to recall that any of them include the criteria I mentioned: that their first BOTG search helped them identify something in their search area that helped them in a successful follow up search of the same area. I mean, that is their argument they use all the time to explain there process.

            Yes, I know that the armchair searcher can’t point to too much success either.

          • Hi fundamentaldesign….you wrote:

            “it’s hard to recall that any of them include the criteria I mentioned: that their first BOTG search helped them identify something in their search area that helped them in a successful follow up search of the same area. I mean, that is their argument they use all the time to explain there process.”

            I’m in this camp.

            My first trip out in 2015 was a fact finding mission. We (my team) set-out with a final destination in mind to actually search, but once we arrived for the BOTG portion of the trip, we discovered things that we never thought would help us further our adventure.

            For the past two years – I’ve relegated my efforts to refine what I had, to include what I found out by being in the region I searched.

            This Summer – I will now test my second attempt.

            So yes, BOTG helped me move farther within the poem, and to be honest, I would not have gotten this far, if I didn’t put BOTG the last time.

            I think it helps greatly, because it is a different perspective/look from the GE viewpoint….when comparing it to the BOTG theory.

            Even TTOTC story of FF arriving in the “tall grass”…..after he landed, it was a different set-up for him.

            Looking from the air can be deceiving……BOTG gives you the correct perspective.

            Good luck in you next search!

          • Got one: Could It Be Here?…Part 2 By GERMANGUY July 2014

            I just took an excerpt that pertains to the subject that I brought up above. GERMANGUY’s original post of this solve’s search is in Other’s Adventures, like Dal said, and it’s really long so one can read on their own. It’s under Could It Be Here? June 2014.

            So this excerpt clearly shows what I was talking about. He and his partner go back to their spot where they already have had a BOTG search and this is what unfolds….
            We started out returning to the spot in which Michael D. was unsucessful. She and I agreed that a more thorough search was warranted. The results were disappointing and we finally put that spot behind us. In the meantime, I continued looking at other promising
            spots that would work as well. My new spot turns out to be better fit than the original one. It required just a different understanding in Fenn’s use of certain words. I will tell you this though, he did choose his words carefully.

            …just as I predicted.

          • Fun ~”BOTG search helped them identify something in their search area that helped them in a successful follow up search of the same area. I mean, that is their argument they use all the time to explain there process.”
            You also add ~”Yes, I know that the armchair searcher can’t point to too much success either”

            This is important, I believe, on how a single mindset is the insecticide for killing what could be the correct solve.
            The main argument for the BOTG group is “fenn wanted us out in nature and explore” Great… 100,000 searchers have proven the challenge as done that… the poem did that side of its job.

            The armchair searcher { which some don’t even consider “actual participants” }
            look for the certainty beforehand thoughts, come up with theories and test them as much as possible with all the information to date. Some may say that is procrastinating…

            But the overall logic here is, both method are needed for a successful out come… The whole argument of which is better is seriously a lost cause. The reality is more likely… the order of the approach…
            There are flaws in both single mindsets… BOTG- more than likely to be jumping the gun with inadequate required information . Armchair Searchers- more than likely over think theories to the point that information gets too distorted to be tested.
            IMO, what both methods lack is the correct combination of each.
            We’re told to think and analyze… told to observe and look at maps. Yet, you just simple can’t do one or the other.
            The only real argument here falls to lack of patience, and needed information vs. over preparation with possible distorted information.
            Without a balance… both methods will fail.

            How many clue can be solved from home? Apparently all of them, in theory, but it’s not practical.

          • Yep, I pretty much agree with you, Seeker. I do utilize the balance of what you’re referring to in my own quest.

            I just brought up one aspect of the balance that I don’t think has been brought up in great detail before. A simple what has anyone found on BOTG that helped them but couldn’t find from home and GE. I’d enjoy hearing an example as that’s their main reason for having a successful approach to finding the tc.

            Like I said, I’ve done BOTG many times but that doesn’t make me declare that’s the way the clues are gonna be solved. I saw something that wasn’t on GE out there but it wasn’t crucial to find for my solve. My solve got me to that spot and further along from home.

          • Thanks, Tim. Good luck in your next search this summer. I’ll be interested to see how it turns out for you.

          • …me three….*smiles*….

            ….and Thanks…. I’m doing my part to end this….


          • Tim ~ ” I’m doing my part to end this….”

            I don’t get it.
            What is all this talk that we need to end this. You’re not the only one to say it, and that is why I bring it up.
            I heard one woman say we need to end this for the sake of fenn’s family…

            I mean C’mon, If fenn thought the same way he’d just go get the chest…end of story.
            I really don’t understand how folks can chant how great this all is, how wonderful a challenge fenn presented, how brilliant it all is, and in the same breath feel it needs to end.

          • Hey Seeker…..I said it all in fun and to help out the misery down once and for all…

            *evil laugh and runs his hands together*


            You seem to take this too seriously, Seeker.

            I’m going out into the wild….that is helping in some small way. And it?

            If I didn’t go out….if no one goes out..,.then it continues. The more of us that goes out….one will eventually end it.


      • That’s funny Goofy, I wish I could get off this dang machine and search but the smart ones know better than to search in the winter. .FF said it would not be found in the winter months.
        Hmm also a very big clue for you
        Big Skip.

        • Kit,

          Forrest has said a lot of things, but he has never said, “it will not be found in the winter months.”

          • Gee… then the video I watched him say it on in 2015 must have been some other guy named FF. This was said to keep people from searching in elements they were not prepared for. (I hid the chest, I never said I buried the chest but that’s not to say the treasure chest isn’t buried.) Just add the second little nugget for you Loco. 🙂

          • Gee… then the video I watched him say it on in 2015 must have been some other guy named FF. This was said to keep people from searching in elements they were not prepared for. (I hid the chest, I never said I buried the chest but that’s not to say the treasure chest isn’t buried.) Just added the second little nugget for you Loco. 🙂

          • Kit,
            Thanks for the second nugget, but after 4+ years, I’m well aware of it.

            And, you better go back and replay that video you watched…..Forrest has never said it would not be found in the winter months.

            I could care less if you think it cannot be found in the winter, but there are new searchers arriving everyday that might not know you are mistaken about what Fenn has said…..or lying?

            Post a link and prove what you say.

            Good Luck to you, Kit.

          • New treasure…the search for the missing video…not doing ur research too….have fun in the snow. Dress real warm and don’t set ur self on fire trying to keep warm. Best of luck to ya.

          • LOL!! It’s very apparent that you are incapable of doing any research whatsoever.

            If you have questions about what Fenn has said and where, just ask. I might answer them for you. 🙂

          • I don’t know about the specific video and the quote that Kit is referencing, but I do know that Forrest specifically gave the advice “wait for the snows to melt” in his NPR interview in March of 2016. It was just advice, but sound advice, IMHO.

          • Wait till snow melts for sure!


            As soon as I get money, I’ll have BOTG!

          • LOL! Yep blex, Fenn did say, “wait til the snows melt”. He has long cautioned about “searching” during the winter months.

            And, that is certainly sound advice. Especially for those inexperienced and/or ill-equipped.

            But, he has never said it would not be found in the winter months. As I indicated to Kit, I really don’t care if anyone thinks he said that. Just trying to keep the record straight on what he has said and not said…..not gonna argue about it….. Think what you will and Good Luck.

          • Loco,
            That is almost as much fun trying to understand what is stated as making sure it quoted correctly… Some won’t get it.
            Here’s a hypothetical:
            to solve the poem you need the understanding of winter solstice… ‘your effort will be worth the cold’…?
            Yet no need to search for it in winter. Maybe the line tells you how it’s done.

            Like loco stated, fenn never said it can’t be found in winter… all he really is say is use your head and wait till the mud drys.

      • Goofy, I have to respectfully disagree with you a little here. I get what you are saying about some people spending too much time on their machines without getting out into the great outdoors for a BOTG search, but I think that you are going a little too far in the opposite extreme of people needing to think about and puzzle out a good chunk of the poem while they’re actually in the middle of their BOTG search area of the Rockies.

        Forrest has said that the finder of the chest will know right where to go with confidence. To me, that implies not charging into the Rockies until you have a confident solve already worked out in a very specific search area. To me, people can just as easily waste a trip going on their BOTG search too early without a confident solve.

        I’ve already shared my specific opinion on this site about what I believe a confident solve should consist of: where one has solved the poem in the comfort of their home up to looking for the blaze. Forrest specifically indicated that it is an exercise in futility to simply walk around and look for the blaze as a starting point. You may as well stay at home and play Canasta.

        I don’t think the treasure is going to be found by someone heading out into a broad area of the Rockies and stumbling upon most of the clue solutions in spontaneous succession. This is all just my opinion, of course, and to be clear I’m just posting this not to be argumentative with you, Goofy; I just don’t want people wasting their time and money on BOTG trips without a confident solve in their back pocket first.

        • Searchers are still apologizing to Goofy. When I see Goof with the treasure chest in his hands, then…. She doesn’t know anymore than anyone else.

        • Blex, I understand. It’s not what folks want to hear.

          I wish I had another treasure to hide in the Appalachians. The little girl in India cannot get closer than the first two clues. There are many disabled people who are deeply into maps and geography, and they are having a lot of fun.

          Dal, I am sure you remember that the little girl from India was the lark of Jenny Kile, who inserted it into a question she asked me. It might just as well have been a boy from Waxahatchee, where my father was born, or an Arab kid from Marrakech, a city that Winston Churchill said was the most beautiful place in the world. He was an excellent artist and I once sold his oil painting of that city. We are getting a lot of mileage from that little girl from India, doncha think?

          They won’t be heading out into the Rockies indiscriminately, they will go to the place where the others were that solved the first two clues. Only instead of being blinded by a predetermined solution, they will actually see/imagine what’s in front of them.

          I just don’t see Fenn designing a chase that can be solved from home. It’s not how he lived his life, it’s not what he wants his legacy to be about; it’s about getting out and smelling the sunshine. Too few do that these days.

          It’s the only way I can make all his statements true. I’ll admit his statements about going with confidence seems to contradict this. The only way I can reconcile those is he didn’t say where we would go with confidence from. To me, we have to figure out the clues on location, then we will proceed with confidence. No need to dig a million holes, or pull up bushes, the blaze will tell us precisely where it’s at.

          Of course I could be completely wrong and I’m making the chase the way I want it to be. But it’s the only way I can logically see him doing it, and make all his statements true. All that remains to be seen is if I can somehow conjure up enough imagination to see what Fenn seen at his special spot.

          • Well said, Goofy. I completely agree that there is some sort of balance that needs to be struck between having a solid starting game-plan for a search, and with keeping an open and observant mindset while physically on site. Where that line exactly gets struck is certainly a gray area that is open to interpretation.

          • FF’s : childhood he had several spots that were “special” to him. However that is not the word he used. Let the chaser find that word/phrase!

            I have not found his use of this word, in any later life’s posts, but is one I need to go back and reread his books to double check.

            Is there a newer or rather later in life “special” spot that we can find?

            Again back to the books!

          • Goofy said I just don’t see F designing a Chase that can be solved from home. It’s not how he lived his life.

            I think you don’t give f enough credit. F just gave us sb 174 where he tells us he collected personal papers, letters, documents and books of R.G. Carter. Then says he probably has more information about him than anyone alive today. He even used an original map (not a copy) to go look for his final resting spot.

            Sounds to me how f lived his live was to get as much accurate and inciteful information or knowledge about a subject before he went out willy nilly looking for something. Bet he would have loved to have had the final resting spot narrowed down even more before he went out on the weekends to look for that specific pile of rocks.

          • I agree fundamentaldesign, like Fenn said:

            Hello Forrest,
            If in 500 years all a person has is the poem, and no back story: they don’t know “in the rocky mountains north of santa fe” or that there are 9 clues etc. Could a person reasonably just use the words in the poem and find your treasure chest?
            Thank you ~Nope

            Thank you Nope. Nope. f


            We need as much information as possible, not go out into the mountains willy nilly as you say. But like in Fenn’s story, the gravesite can’t be found from home, you have to get out there to figure it out.

          • Well, lucky for us f does know the exact endpoint in the Chase, unlike his scrapbook story. That’s the major difference between the two.

        • Goofy,
          I can see the logic… Discover/decipher the first clues and utilize the poem to the surroundings and why nobody can get closer than the first two clues. Make sense… But we still need to find where that starting point is…especially if wwwh is that first clue.

          However, in a recent SB Q&A Dal posted.. {you know it as well as anyone.}
          Answer to solving clues, lets say Prior, and not so much at Home… “All of them, in theory…” Doesn’t that take some of the guess work out of what we should be looking for on site with the remaining clues? fenn also added, ~but not practical.
          This seems to imply, sure ya need to be there… how else will you actually “solve..finalize your goal”

          lol it’s just as perplexing as All the information is in the poem… yet seemingly we can’t just use the poem. { you know those Q&A as well, I’m sure}
          And ~ they don’t need to read my book, they need to read the poem… the book will help but the poem will take you… {again saving time and space, you know the statements}

          How does the poem {with nothing else} work in your scenario? Is it simply because there no reference to why the poem was created?

          To be honest Goofy, and you have read most my crap thoughts, I mean theories, even some of my theories of BOTG only method…
          How can we get around logically thinking with these comments?

          That is why, for the time being, I’m looking to figure that important possibility, and why searcher at the first two clues didn’t know and walk by every remaining clue and the
          chest and now possibly “the first 4 clues…” {yes, we don’t have a lot to go on with that statement}
          I’m hoping for a spark to ignite a flame, to give probability, to help answer those…imo… critical pieces.

      • Hi, Goofy, I’m a few days behind on this thread. I am one of the “not very smart people here…” as I am very fortunate to have been able to do what you suggested “GET OUT THERE AND LOOK!!!” I refer to it as “traipsing around” looking for the right WWWH. I totally agree with what you wrote that ff is screaming at us how to solve the poem when he wrote about Bill and him hiking on weekends searching relentlessly for the trooper’s grave and the errant pile of rocks. (In our case, we need to find the errant wwwh.) I have studied TTOTC and the poem relentlessly over the winter (and skipped reading most blog comments to avoid all the rabbit holes), as have hundreds of other searchers. I think many folks condemn my method since I never have all 9 clues solved when I step out of my vehicle to begin BOTG. But like Fenn has stated we should do, I’m working on marrying all nine clues to their geographic location on a map. I’m just waiting for the snow to melt at the higher elevations, and some areas are good to go to now. I don’t think I’m alone using this method, though, as there are a lot of searchers who live in NM who search and don’t post comments. In conclusion (I’m not sure why I even made this comment), I agree with you.

        • You go Cynthia ! Nobody…repeat…nobody knows what is right…except Fenn. And he ain’t sayin’.

        • If it’s in New Mexico I think you’ll be the one that finds it……I really enjoy reading about your adventures and seeing your pictures.

        • Cynthia, thanks for your comment. I have just returned from a mini search and instead of “stomping out the clues” Seeker style, I simply walked. And listened, and noticed. I climbed fairly high on a mesa top to get a birds eye view of the lay of the land and let my imagination run wild in the crisp NM air. I saw ropes with knots, I saw George Washington’s smile. I saw big Ponderosas as high as the canyon edge. I found a large bell probably same vintage as that pictured in a recent SB. I found the word BLAZE etched into sandstone. With an etched arrow pointing up just above it. I trespassed, just a little. I stayed off the trails and wandered. I saw the opening where it might be possible to thread a tract thru the wiles of nature… (the eye of the needle looks directly toward ropes with knots). I explored the fingers, thumbs, and sandstone We. Against advice, I was marrying stories to the land. I found a very cool pile of rocks with an ancient post protruding from it signifying a 65+ year old mining claim, papers still readable in an old Coors can. I found the rusty iron fire escape slide. I found an old Medicine Wheel and some additional evidence of a long ago quest of a different sort. I haven’t found the treasure chest, but I am getting closer every day. I would have had none of these experiences if I had waited to have the poem solved before heading out the door. I’ll be going back very soon.

          • Awesome story, Sandy, we think alike. And we’re not alone. For those searchers living in the 4 states, this is what we are lucky to be able to do. Will it be a resident who finds Fenn’s chest…hard to say but we sure will have many fond memories of day trips and adventures.

          • Hi Cynthia – yep…we don’t really have far to look, if you are in one of those states…..but unfortunately, I live in NM and not searching here at all.


            So, there are folks out here like me who will have to travel to seek anyhow.

            Good luck!

          • Sandy,
            Thanks for noticing I have style… which means unique, unexpected, ‘different’…

            My mom always said to me, ‘you’re something else, you are.’
            And mom’s know about those things.

  17. Big Skip,
    IMO , when the poem is solved, I believe searchers will be able to look back at hints given by Forrrest and see that he has been clever and honest. I can’t prove that yet because my solve is incomplete. I do not believe like many others that this will be the summer it is solved. I would expect it to be solved within the next 10 years because I believe it is solvable. Only when someone solves it, will Forrest and his clever hints be revealed. Unfortunately, at this moment in time I’m not that someone.

  18. Apostle Peter at the gates of Heaven : ” OK Forrest, I’ll let you in but first you gotta tell me where you hid that darn chest”.

  19. Forrest: Well, it’s been a long journey. Once I’m inside and am better able to get off these feet and sit a spell, I’ll be more than lad to give you that answer, Apostle Peter!

    BTW..I could sure use a refreshing drink. You have a Grapette anywhere around here?

      • By the time The Flyer has managed to talk his way into those pearly gates; I reckon he’ll be served any beverage he wants.

        Served with a smile and on a silver platter to boot!

        No doubt.

  20. Big Skip,

    If I knew what it is I didn’t know, then I would know the answers you ask. But I just don’t know either.

    What I know is less than what it is that I don’t know, but no one is limited in access to knowledge. Wisdom is always delivered simple in its essence . When the chest is found by the simplest means of thinking , this blog will be set ablaze by amazement of that realization. Me thinks so anyways.

  21. Wow Big Skip, lots of questions here and plenty loaded.
    Just remember, keep it simple my friend…FF said he wanted families with kids searching for his treasure. With that said, it is not going to be a difficult trek for anyone to find his treasure once in the right “Location” and that’s exactly where FF’s poem will lead you in succession. Remember, he was 80 when he “walked” to and from his car, “twice” in one afternoon to hide his treasure chest. Many people have taking his poem out of context and into dangerous places like caves, mines and over terrain an 80 year old could not possibly go or ever want to. LOL. Be safe in the chase buddy.

  22. Mr. Fenn has offered up a challenge to locate his TC. He knows that if all of the searchers worked together to locate the spot we would certainly find it quickly but he knows that will never happen. Why is this true? The obvious answer is greed, sad but true. IMO For which of us is willing to give away our secret solve ? If on the other hand the searchers that have said they only want to do good with the treasure are being honest with themselves then the solve could be done exponentially faster by working together and the treasure could go to the Smithsonian or some other reputable establishment to be viewed by all. IMO

    • Apparently there are multiple “teams” working on this if some of the posts I’ve read are true.

    • Micheal DE—” The obvious answer is greed…. For which of us is willing to give away our secret solve ?”

      Yeah, except you failed to mention the other important aspect, # of hours invested, remember what ff has said [difficult but not impossible- searcher will have to earn it]

      What does the ‘DE’ part signify, are you from Delaware?

      • Hi “theycallme9clues”.

        I agree with your thinking here. The number of hours I have devoted to this quest, it would be silly for me to just throw it all away without even looking first.

        I knew that this would be the case, before I even started.

        I vowed that I would help others with an overall search, but if I had ever come up with a complete solve, I would stay quite with it, until after I have checked the region.

        There is no greed in this for me, as I am willing to share the wealth, but more of a bucket list challenge that has always been waiting for me to complete. In other words, I’ve always wanted to take part in a real life treasure hunt.

        This is my only chance, so I have taken part in it. Just think – this will never come around again…..we are literally, “early in the game”…..and probably…..we are all on the same level of playing field.

        Good luck to you!

    • Michael DE-Not everyone is in it because they are filled with greed.

      I love puzzles. I work Puzzles to keep my mind busy to slow down Alzheimer’s/and Dimetia. I would also love to be able to help build homes for the homeless in Peru and Bolivia. TTOTC keeps me busy and searching and learning!

      I stated once before I will pay Uncle Sam what I need to pay, pay tithes, and use balance for building materials needed to accomplish my goal.

      Is this being greedy?

      • Not all greed is necessarily bad. You wish to find the treasure so you can have the option to delegate the funds as you wish instead of someone else who may not use it for such worthy causes. I applaud you for your plans of the treasure should you locate it.

  23. Searchers:
    Thanks for your replies. I will read, re-read, and read again all the responses and suggestions…….and then read “the” book again with some new insight.
    Thanks again

  24. BigSkip,
    You’re basically asking what information do we think is helpful and what is, well, crap-ola. A little history of searcher’s pondering might explain the evolution of this…
    WE the People started out with nothing more than a book found in a mom n’ pop book store in SF.NM. We read the dusk cover, skim through the book and discover a challenge… and the next modern day gold rush is on. From those early stories many used the book and automatically looked at maps… then expansion came… we starting to look for external possibilities, and when that didn’t pan out, we tried codes and cipher, other book methods, interviews information, personal web pages, and the landslide rumbled, picking up all kinds of wanna be clues. Etc.
    So what do we do with all that add on infor? We beg for more, and fenn supplies us {upon our request } with Q&As, SB’s, more interviews… Now we have many, many, pieces of information… 100X’s more text and recording and pictures than the book could ever hold… The Fenntastic Encyclopedia is born [ by our doing ]… Folks go off on crazy wild thoughts from all this added information and fenn, seemingly, suggest get back in the box… The poem, The Book, The challenge, is what we started with and fenn repeats over and over again, Go back to the poem, and the book will help.
    But… why just toss all that extra infor away? I mean, something is better than nothing, right?… Our job is to test the ingredients, put our ducks in a row, separate the logic from tangent, and adjust our thinking to ride the bike straight. {that is where I’m personally at.} Fenn has handed us ‘suggestion’ {after the fact info} along the way that we can utilize for thought… but the one thing fenn repeats in different ways, at different times… “I am determined to stay aloof of providing any additional clues that are useful. Everyone has the same information to work with.”

    • ” I am determined to stay aloof…” EXACTLY…but he does say “clues” not hints. So, again, a statement that could be shredded to pieces. You know…who’s to say that he does not throw hints out there….The conundrum continues.

      • I could say semantic Ken… but lets take the baby for walk.

        What is a clue to a hint?

        We have fenn’s statement on that as well… then again… we have all those clues from the Today Show that fenn himself called “useless clues” We have some who stated a flashlight and a sandwich was defiantly a clue, even using it has part in their solve… yet fenn did say, they are not clues. I could go on but you’re right….”.The conundrum continues.” That’s part of the challenge itself. Attempting to actually understand hints and clues and not merely guess or force something to work. Hence twisting an ankle in a rabbit whole.

        But I’ll bring this thought back up… whatIF the hints in the book help with the clues by only telling where the clues are for us to start at the correct first clue { if it is wwwh, would takes the ‘guess work’ out of all the wwwh in the RMs} working on a hunch doesn’t work, line of thinking.
        Would that not hold true to; hints in the book helps with the clues but the clues take you to the chest, the book by itself can’t? and at the same time [If true] an external hinting would be of the same mindset of the authors… and only related to where to start and not anything to do with clues that get you to the chest… I could call that semantics as well… but I think it falls under the ‘thinking’ process more than ‘hoping and forcing’.

        • Let’s try one on and see how it fits. I’ll start. Check out Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee Brown. Read the chapter “The Utes Must Go”.

        • Seeker…To keep it simple for me, I just stay with what was known at the beginning of the Chase…before all of the “useless clues” …the endless debates clues vs. hints etc. And…just to repeat up thread comment before it was hijacked into oblivion…my theory on the First clue is that it is in the first stanza(which gives a specific area) and lets the second clue… BIWWWH…be the starting point.

          • Oh…The book(as a whole unit) gives the “idea” of where that first clue is. Just my take on it…right or wrong that is my story and I will stick with it until the end.

          • Colo,

            ” So I would submit that you couldn’t ‘recognize’ the correct answer to either HOB or Blaze even if it was present in the book until you got the first clue (there’s no way to shortcut the poem). ”

            Agreed, on all counts. I guess where we diverge is at WWWH. I don’t think it is the first clue. I am of the opinion that the first two clues(and possibly more) will allow you to identify an area/location where WWWH can be identified. So, for me, that means I would have to identify hints, in the book or elsewhere, that would help with that theory. As you said, I don’t think any of the clues can be circumvented. And I don’t think any of the “hints”, in the book, whether in the text or elsewhere, will give one the correct answer to any of the clues! If I’m wrong, then I am SOL!! LOL!!

            “IMO the hints are not at all clear-cut and as I stated, I suspect they will only service to bump your thinking in the right direction (if you can recognized them), not provide a one-for-one answer to a clue.”

            I think my words preceding indicate that we are also in agreement on this perspective.

            As Seeker keeps pounding on, we are missing sumthin’…..but WTH is it???? Good Luck Colo……………loco

        • LOL!! Dang Seeker, I’ve read and reread that post for the last 15 minutes…..and I still ain’t 100% sure I am getting the gist of it.

          But, I’ll throw sumthin out there any way. I can’t rule out ken’s theory that the book “as a whole” can’t give you an “idea” as where to start ( the first clue)…..but, for anyone who thinks they have found WWWH, HOB or the Blaze in the book, I’m pretty sure Fenn shot that down here:

          November 12, 2015
          You have said to read the poem and read TTOTC to help solve for the 9 clues. We all know there are many options to choose from regarding, Brown, hoB, wwh,and blaze hinted at in the book.
          My question is, “In the book, do you also, in a more subtle way, tell which is the correct answer to one or all of the above?” ~BW

          No I don’t madam, sorry. F

          (don’t whine at me if it shoots holes in anyone’s solve! 🙂 )

          • Lets have a closer look at The comment Loco…

            ~”read TTOTC to help solve for the 9 clues.”
            Do you recall fenn ever saying “solve the clues” or simply “help”?

            ~”We all know there are many options to choose from regarding, Brown, hoB, wwh,and blaze hinted at in the book.”
            What do we really “know” especially about “many options”?

            Then we have… ~”more subtle ways”
            What the heck is ‘more subtle’ to subtle? Is there such a thing as a lesser subtle?

            And last but not less,
            ~ “tell which is the “correct answer” to one or all of the above?”
            Again, do we ‘know’ that is the purpose of a “hint” … to tell any kind of an ‘answer’?

            I have only read that, A hint will help…
            The question is simply riddled with suggestive thoughts and no real accuracy of anything that might be factual.

            If you have a comment that fenn directly says a hint will “solve” a clue, I would love to see it… I have yet to find one. And that is my whole point to this theory. Maybe the only purpose of a hint helps by eliminating the dart tossing for the “starting point”… But many, if not all, read the comments as BW does.

            Alone, this Q&A doesn’t prove or disprove my thought/idea… but it is a good example of what we think we know, to what is actual or factual, because we don’t know.

          • LOL! OK Seeker, I’ll play…..but just for a little while.

            Is it an advantage to buy The Thrill of the Chase and Too Far to Walk?

            “There are hints in my TTOTC book that can help solve the clues in the poem.

            (not real sure what you were asking, you’re all over the place, again. But yes, he has said hints help SOLVE the clues)

            You have said you don’t have the book, and I don’t fault you for that, as I’ve stated before. But, there are many instances(options) in both the words and phrases, that could be construed as pointing to definitive, existing examples of WWWH, HOB, etc……….if one wants to go down those bunny holes.

            “In the book, do you also, in a more subtle way, tell which is the correct answer to one or all of the above?” ~BW

            No I don’t madam, sorry. F

            —–what difference does ‘more’ or ‘subtle’ inclusion in the question make??

            BW could have just said, “do you also, in a way, tell which is the correct…….?”

            The question would be the same, and the answer would be the same…….the hints can help one with the clues, but there is nothing in the book that will tell you the answer to what WWWH, HOB, Blaze actually is….. If anything in the book provided a direct answer, in any manner, it would not be a HINT!

            Seeker wrote: Again, do we ‘know’ that is the purpose of a “hint” … to tell any kind of an ‘answer’?

            I agree with you, a “hint” does not provide an answer, not alone anyway. Multiple hints would be required to arrive at an answer.

            BW was asking if there is anything in the TTOTC book that would directly provide an answer to what WWWH, HOB or the Blaze is, in relation to the clues!………..Forrest answer shows there is NOT!!!

            Reel it back in a little Seeker, ya got way to much line out there!!! 🙂


          • This question is so poorly worded I’m surprised anyone would try to draw conclusions from it.

            “We all know there are many options to choose from regarding, Brown, hoB, wwh,and blaze hinted at in the book. My question is, “In the book, do you also, in a more subtle way, tell which is the correct answer to one or all of the above?” ~BW

            No I don’t madam, sorry. F”

            First off, the inclusion of the “or” makes this multiple choice, and second, the questioner provides a limited list of ‘clues’ for F to consider. F is given the option to respond to “answer to one”…or…”all of the above”…or…both simultaneously. We are also left with the ambiguous nature of the term “correct answer”.

            So we know that ‘hints’ will help us with the ‘clues’ but this doesn’t mean that they give us a precise ‘answer’ to the clue. Maybe the hint just jogs our thinking in the right direction.

            What we can conclude is one of the following:
            1) the hints may contain no answers to clues,
            2) the hints don’t answer any to the clues in the list provided by the questioner,
            3) the hints might answer clues not on the list.

            I would ask people who are going to ask F a question to do the following; Only ask one unambiguous question (avoid a laundry list of questions). Leave out “and’s” and “or’s”. Avoid long awkward sentences full of commas. You’ll be doing us all a favor.

          • Is it an advantage to buy The Thrill of the Chase and Too Far to Walk?
            “There are hints in my TTOTC book that can help solve the clues in the poem.

            And there it is… I forgot that Q&A… must be getting senile.
            That will put a dent in my thoughts for this idea. It may also put a dent in how useful, if at all, the tftw walk book is. He had the opportunity to add it, but only mentioned TTOTC book.

            Reeling back a little, but still fishing… we’re missing something and it seems to be right at the start of it all, and why searchers didn’t know they indicated the first two clues, didn’t recognize any later clues, and more than likely, got to the location unknowingly [correctly], and not understanding something critical.

            This is how a discussion

            I might still be looking for the start, beginning, the first clue… but at least “I know” I’m not within 12′ or even 3′ of the 10″sq spot and still come up empty handed. or think fenn is hand feeding and still nothing to show for it.

            But back to the answer above… with an open mind… exactly how do the hints “help”? The line of thinking that they help with the location only is still slightly open…especially if that information the hints relay might have an importance to Why this location. I highly doubt the place that is special to fenn is only a 10″sq spot… What is missing?
            And Goofy’s version of observing the location by being on site is more than probable, point to point of each clue. But are we missing the *why* there [ the special location that fenn holds in “high regards” and “respects” ] to begin with.

            Maybe the key word help with understanding that, and not so much a lock pick for individual clues.

            Maybe the word that is key is binoculars for that tight focus thingy…lol

            Thanks again for the chat.

          • Hi, Seeker. I don’t think that the hints in TTOTC are necessary to find the chest, but they do give you an extra boost of confidence (real or imagined) for what it’s worth.

            From what I have gleaned from interviews, I do not think that Forrest has indicated that TFTW is as chock full of hints to the chest as TTOTC, but I believe that there are a at least a couple (aside from the map, which is already available online for free). I haven’t bought TFTW yet, but intend to this summer just to read some more interesting stories from Forrest.

          • Interesting that no one ever thinks to ask f if anyone has ever solved a hint in TTOTC. That would be priceless. Maybe I will at Fennboree. Lol

          • I’d like to add I think solving the hints in TTOTC is where it’s at. Guessing that’s the easiest route to figure out the first clue. That’s why f’s best advice is to look for the hints in conjunction with the poem (yep Seeker, paraphrasing again cause it’s an easy concept f spoke of).

            One step further, I feel the clues won’t be solved by delving into this or that wwwh without specifically solving the hints or first stanza before it.

          • Hello Colokid, thanks for weighing in.

            I agree the question was poorly worded and perhaps gave fenn “wiggle room”. However, I did state, above, IMO.

            My statement was based on what fenn’s answer might, or might be related to in the question. Yep, there might be some coulda, woulda, shoulda present in fenn’s reply……so let’s just refer to those as “Whatif”, OK?

            I play the odds in these situations:

            Whatif fenn was saying ‘no’ to the question of one of the three listed……that could still leave two that he did in some way tell the correct answer to.- – – Now, Whatif fenn was saying ‘no’ to “all of the above”…..that would mean the book does not in any way tell the correct answer to any of the three listed.

            So, given that, if one wants to use their time, and make the effort, to scour the book looking for a “possible” correct answer to one or two of the three clues listed, they should do so (I elect to not do so)….. However, they must remain cognizant of the fact that any one of the three, that they may think they find, could be the one he said ‘no’ to!

            Thus, IMO: BW was asking if there is anything in the TTOTC book that would directly provide an answer to what WWWH, HOB or the Blaze is, in relation to the clues!………..Forrest answer shows there is NOT!!!

            again and again and again….IMO 🙂

          • WTH???? Goofy, I tried to post the above reply to colokid four times from my laptop over a two hour period, the above being the first.

            Finally gave up and went to desktop, just now, and made another attempt. The above(1st) post did show to be there when I submitted the latest(5th).

            There may be four more iterations of the same post show up- – pick four and nuke ’em, if you want…..this one too, if it goes thru.

          • Loco,
            lol, imo… you know how that works… the question {just to repeat because of the long ladder}
            My question is, “In the book, do you also, in a more subtle way, tell which is the correct answer to one or all of the above?” ~BW
            Fenn answered the question as presented. The other fluff before the question really isn’t involve, or at least I think it isn’t, hence the opinion part of my reply.

            The students Q&A seem to explain how fenn reviews a question… he responds to the actual question only. or at least it seems so.
            So maybe we’re just over thinking this one, because of the additions BW brings up prior to the actual question… another words… fenn isn’t going to guess what BW really means [like we are] he just rolled with the question.

            PS. thanks for locating that other quote… casting a new line to see what bites.

          • Loco,
            I mostly agree. One does have to play the odds on these Q&A’s since they are always ambiguous to some extend so my post was not intended to question your analysis….more of a plea for people to ask better questions.

            But let’s go a little deeper on this one. BW asks about answers to WWWH, HOB, and the Blaze. F has told us we can’t find HOB or the Blaze without first understanding the first clue. So I would submit that you couldn’t ‘recognize’ the correct answer to either HOB or Blaze even if it was present in the book until you got the first clue (there’s no way to shortcut the poem). If we’re playing the odds on ‘hints’ then I think we have to hope WWH is in there somewhere but if it’s not the “first clue” then we are sol. We would have to get the 1st clue in some other way.

            IMO the hints are not at all clear-cut and as I stated, I suspect they will only service to bump your thinking in the right direction (if you can recognized them), not provide a one-for-one answer to a clue.

            BTW, I’m having a hard time posting as well, and had frequent blackouts of this site access. Don’t know what’s going on but I emailed Goofy too.

  25. “If all the searchers worked together”
    This is impossible and will never happen and its not just greed. When I read other peoples solves and ideas, instead of trying to be positive, I seem to look for faults, discrepancies, and areas that do not agree with my beliefs. Kinda like what seeker does. You know shoot holes in others postings. That’s why people want to know what state ur searching- so they can discredit your solve if it’s not the state they think it’s in.
    If you posted a correct solve, no one would pay any attention to it., and that’s the reality of it.

    • emmett ~ “Kinda like what seeker does. You know shoot holes in others postings.”

      I truly get what you meant…
      But, that sounds like I deliberately want to prove another solve wrong… not my intent… I just want to clarify that.

      The intent, {that some constantly complain about} of using fenn’s statement is nothing more than check and balance to something stated. By doing so it brings the Idea, thought, theories of many searchers to just have a second look or open a conversation about it.
      I’ll use a recent searcher’s thought for example, and I’m lay a nickle he’ll whine about… but I cant help that immature problem. It’s posted on an, open to the world discussion board, for that reason.

      Paraphrasing… there are not a couple of clues and hints, there are thousands, fenn is being untruthful.
      How do you not post fenn’s quote and ask why?
      It not downing to do so, and maybe, just many others will join in and chat about the topic, even though it has been talked about before. Something new or interesting to provoke a thought might come from doing just that.
      Not unlike BigSkip rehashing some of his thoughts and inquiries of older topic for new insight.

      I get what ya meant, emmett.
      I just want to explain my reasoning… which I only ass/u/me would be obvious.

  26. A group solve sounds OK in theory, until you really think about it. Just those who post here regularly can’t come to an agreement for step #1, this thread, the nine clues. And, at least for me, the challenge is to solve the puzzle on my on. I like any puzzle, and if I’m sitting in the barber shop fiddling with one of those hand-made puzzles or a sudoku, I don’t want any help. It has nothing to do with greed, just the nature of a challenge.

    And, as far as all the additional info outside the poem and book, I think it helps shorten the total time required searching. All of these statements reduce the search area – between 5000 and 10200 ft, might be found 1000 years from now, special place, two trips in an afternoon……etc.

    Good Luck, be safe, don’t get there before me.

    • I prefer the word ‘independent’…I’ve cut my own hair for the last 20 plus years if that tells you anything. lol

      • Independent-I can do it by myself all by myself! Yeah, I get stubborn sometimes too!

      • J Smith,
        I am also independent and cut my own hair . I “keep up” with the times by changing to a different size bowl. Although, I had a heck of a time with the Jennifer Aniston style… I had to use multiple bowls.

      • Independent is a good word.
        There is a fine line between stubborn and foolish.
        And I cross over it regularly.
        I am that guy on the highway telling his wife I don’t need a map, and then explaining why I took that last turn.

        Y’all should try barber shops. You are missing out on all sorts of wisdom handed out only for the small price of a haircut.

        • Wait!! there are still “barber shops”? All I have are around here are salons, but I get some great recipes…

  27. I have a request for information. There was apparently once a quote by Forrest saying something about Riding a bike there and getting it. I cant seem to find it.

    Two questions……
    What was the full quote, and what was the date?

    • I’m guilty of bringing that up…I wrote it in my notes but not where I read it. Still haven’t found where I read it at. Trying to go backwards….

    • This wasn’t the one I remember reading…

      Forrest responds-

      I am a very simple person and you want me to have copious meetings with lawyers, preachers, undertakers and your family. What is wrong with me just riding my bike out there and throwing it in the “water high” when I am through with it? You don’t know how many man hours I have spent on that subject. Thanks for the input but I think you should mobilize your club and hit the trail searching for the wondrous treasure. Besides, I’ll probably get hit by a train. When you find the treasure please come sell me the great turquoise and silver bracelet that is in the chest. I wish now that I had kept it. f

      • That’s the only one I’ve seen…according to Google the date for that post appears to be October 2, 2012. If you’re looking for some kind of cycling event on that date good luck.

  28. the reason I think that wwwh is a reservoir because waters high can also mean that the reservoir is a place that holds a lot of water – heavy loads is the concrete where the water is released- no paddle means to me don’t go in the directions of your creek go north to waters high so you have wwwh heavy loads waters high and no paddle – al this clues are right there and that’s what makes wwwh a reservoir imo frank

    • FF has said WWWH is not associated with any dam…not sure of the exact date but I’m sure it can be Googled. I think he made this statement so nobody would get hurt messing around a dam. He has also said the chest is not near a structure so (IMO) that includes manmade dams.

      • J Smith – you are right wwwh is -is not a dam its a a reservoir – and no – the chest is not near a structure imo the only man made structure that I can see in the poem is wwwh- and the chest imo is not near wwwh – cause next is the blaze in the wood then you have to walk to where the chest is so its not near a structure – this is all my opinion and I thank you for your reply thanks

    • frank,

      I can sense that you want your reservoir solve to work, but I really don’t think that it can, because according to FF:
      Where warm waters halt is not a dam.

      100% of reservoirs (in NM especially) are created by dams.


      • Fennatical – if what I find or found and the name says reservoir I go by that if it says a dam ill go with dam in my case the place says reservoir imo that’s what it is a reservoir – thanks for your reply

        • frank,

          I understand what you are saying. I agree that just because FF said “not a dam’, he can be tricky, and could be just avoiding the ‘reservoir’ associated with dam. Believe me, I’ve thought hard and long on this subject.

          There is no absolute answer here… FF never said ‘not a reservoir’. But I believe that it was his intention to infer that it was ‘not a dam/reservoir’. {Intention is nine tenths of the law}. On the other hand, “this ain’t law”. LOL

          I wish the TC was located nearby, at Abiquiú, perhaps….

          Best of Luck!

          • fennitcal – there are a lot of things that ff cant say you just kind of try to read between the lines- lol and what makes you think its not close to abiquiu I was going to tell you something but I cant here but if you get a chance to email me

        • Frank-maybe not a dam or a reservoir, but what about natural lakes and natural ponds and nature made self generating bodies of water like a spring?

          Good luck!

          • Sheryl lynn- everything works if your salve tells you mine happens to say reservoir thanks for your reply

        • Frank,
          Isn’t that playing games though?
          The reservoir { the body of water } would not exist if not for the dam. What would “halt” the waters is the dam, right?

          A levee is an embankment created to hold back waters as well… Is that not a dam as well?

          The difference between them might be why they were created… but the overall purpose in the same.
          A dam is an obstruction, as is a levee, or a beaver’s dam…I’d go as far as to say… a natural blockage. Earth Quake lake was created by a quake causing a land slide damming the river.

          So, is a dam not a dam because it doesn’t fit a specific purpose?

          • seeker what you say is correct but what to me it doesn’t matter if a dam is a dam – if where I say is wwwh and that the name on the map says reservoir to me that is what it is – if I said look for franks dam and the name on the map said franks reservoir would you be able to find it and know that you were in the right place

          • I’m trying to understand… but does the name change what it is?

            If I said a clue is not mountain… but by your line of thinking, Rushmore could be a geographical clue, because of the name…Yet, is it not still a mountain, even though it’s been carved out with faces?

            The name you are using would not be, if it wasn’t directly cause by the dam.

            I just don’t see the wiggle room… because hoover dam created lake mead, which is a damned more ways then one.

        • frank- let the dodo bird help. at the Buffalo Bill Reservoir just west of Cody, Wyoming in the canyon up there are on display for tourists, remnants of the old dam’s workings. generators, gates and a large wooden clad concrete ball. i mean its huge. this ball was once used to stop the flow of water from the dam. it was lowered to a pipe deep underwater and sucked into the opening like a stopper. now, on display this ball has a bronze plaque bolted to it and the exact words upon it are…”used to halt the flow of runoff” and as we all know, the reservoir consists of snowmelt (warmed water). in addition, when this ball was lowered into the depths it would disappear. much like young Forrest Fenn’s giant ball of string.
          i think you are right frank.

          another thought quarried from dodo bird’s opinion mine.

      • I just googled the difference between reservoir and dam. They are not synonymous. A reservoir is the body of water created by a dam. Or, in reverse, the dam is the structure the creates the body of water. They usually have different names. As an example, the Glen Canyon Dam and Lake Powell. That was the end of THAT rainbow (bridge).

        • seeker all I can say is if the place doesn’t say reservoir you are in the wrong place

          • I looked up reservoirs by state. Links pop up and you can read if they are natural on all sides or if man made dams or man made banks on them.

            IMO WWWH is not a dam, or areas that are banked up; lean towards the all natural landscaped water hole, ponds, Spings etc.

            What’s nice is you cannouckband choose whatever you want! It’s your quest.

          • Sherly,
            If water is held by a lower impression of land.. simply meaning a big hole that fills with water [lake]… but utilized as a water supply for a population, it’s still a lake.
            IF a structure is in place for the purpose of controlling the waters… it’s a dam.
            Does it matter what the given name is to the structure or the body of water is?

            I’m really trying to understand logically, how a reservoir with a deliberately block section for water control is not considered a dam.

          • Yes I agree, if it’s any type of dam, concrete or a bank of dirt to contain the water, to me it’s a dam…I personally would look elsewhere.

          • res·er·voir
            noun: reservoir; plural noun: reservoirs
            a large natural or artificial lake used as a source of water supply.
            synonyms: pool, pond; More
            water supply, water tower
            “water pumped from the reservoir”

          • Artificial Lake: A reservoir usually means an enlarged natural or artificial lake, storage pond or impoundment created using a dam or lock to store water. Reservoirs can be created by controlling a stream that drains an existing body of water.
            Reservoir – Wikipedia
            Wikipedia › wiki › Reservoir

            IMO Not in favor of looking for an artificial Lake, even if it is called Reservois!

      • Just to be clear, here’s what FF wrote (Scrapbook 68, particularly the very last line):

        “Many searchers have thought that warm waters halt at a dam because water being released through flues near the bottom of the dam is much colder than water on the surface of the lake. I have discussed around that subject with several people in the last few days and am concerned that not all searchers are aware of what has been said. So to level the playing field to give everyone an equal chance I will say now that WWWH is not related to any dam.” ff


        • Yay! Thank you!!!
          No DAMS Chasers please!

          This is difficult enough without banging your heads trying to fit DAMS into your solve!

          DAMS are out!

          Try try again!

          Good luck Chasers!

      • Fennatical,

        Up here in my neck of the woods, we boast of 10,000 “reservoirs” on the state license plate and almost none of them have a dam on them.

        • swott,

          You may want to re-examine your license plate…

          10,000 Lakes is not the same as 10,000 Reservoirs.

          Just nit-picking! 🙂

  29. Hey searchers:

    Big Skip here trying to keep up from the rear of the fast moving pack. So, I’ve gone from hearing and believing that “all you need is the book (poem) and a good map” thinking that the success of the chase can be determined from a good map. Simply interpreting the clues from the poem and integrating/identifying them on a good map. Doing this will successfully lead you to the treasure. BOTG was required simply to follow those clues. Now,… am I hearing that a map is necessary possibly to get started but a smart searcher will not find those remaining clues on a map, but will need to be BOTG in order to either find, see or interpret the remaining clues? Is this the consensus of current thinking?
    As always, thanks for your thoughts

    • Bigskip-I do believe hints and first two clues can be done at home. BOTG and careful eye needed for additional clues to find Trove!

    • Well Big Skip,
      Those are a couple of the prevailing theories but if you’re looking for consensus you’ve come to the wrong place.

  30. the first clue is the Buffalo Bill Center of the West. this is the physical place as indicated by the poem where he “went alone in there, and with his treasures bold”. the Buffalo Bill Center of the West is also the physical place where he “can keep his secret, and hint of riches new and old”.
    these riches are not the contents of the bronze box, they are the items contained within the museum. his secret is the chest, which also is not the bronze box. its a simple wooden box in a display. so, with poem in hand go to the Buffalo Bill Center of the West and specifically, the Draper Museum of Natural History and see for yourself the other eight clues unfold before your very eyes.
    opinion mine.

  31. Seeker,

    I know you probably don’t return to the pond very often, but you should check out this:

    I don’t necessarily agree with all Jack has in it, but one aspect of it is something I have pondered deeply. Wondered if it might be the “important possibility”, as it were.

    Jack has been around bout as long as you and I, doesn’t post often. But I make sure to entertain his perspective when he does post.

    (might give ya a new hole to throw a line into) 🙂

    • Thanks for the heads up…
      I’ll say this… the guy is thinking with both hemispheres. { and I do recall some of his older postings }
      The concept is not new, but some of the reasoning’s are. I’m not big on another lingo, but in this case the addition does make sense {without changing anything}. The other is, the lining up and down of the letter S to O. If we don’t move the original setting/format of the poem, The D’s look more likely than the O’s …LOL … I don’t know what DSD would stand for.

      The interesting part is a connection to the old question… why is there a question and answer?

      The full circle theory/Idea works well, and might fill in the gap for why the comments…Need to know where to start, and need to start at the beginning…
      In the poem, we already know he went some place alone and with his treasure{ stanza 1}… so we need a place to start.. { stanza 5. } gives an answer[s]…

      “The beginning” ~ “why is it I must go…” and … “The place to start” ~ “the answers.”
      Is at all correct…Where do we look for the clues? Begin it wwwh.
      The follow up question would be… is it a clue? {for 1 out 9}
      Or, simply the start { and still need 9 clues or are we just understand clues are contained within 9 sentences?

      Not sure if I like the jump from stanza 5 back to stanza 1 thought… I think working “in order” would sent us to stanza 6… Which I have suggested in the past as well as other. You might recall halo’s 56123 order.

      Funny thing is, after yesterday and this morning’s post between you and me and others. A thought popped up… in lines with this theory. Again, not new, just slightly different…

      Appreciate the call-out… the old boat steers hard these days.

      • Seeker,

        LOL!! Yeah, I knew you had touched on 561234 before. As I said, some of Jack’s post I am not onboard with, but I wanted to see if you would expound upon your thoughts on 561234……oh, go back and read s.l.o.w.l.y….Jack does not jump from stanza 5 to stanza 1. 🙂

        • Ok, ‘at the end of stanza six…’
          I red/read it wrong.
          I like the thought for the simple reason… a question within a poem and he answers his own question should spark an idea to why he did this.

          The other interesting part is stanza 1 is written in past tense… stanza 5 and 6 present tense. This automatically should raise an eye-brow to why is it present tense? If he already went why is he telling us he’s gong again. and why bother is the chest is supposedly found in stanza 4. He could have skipped stanza 5 altogether and end with stanza 6…
          The question must be important to have him relay it and answer it as well.

          • “So why is it that I must go…” on stanza 5.
            Towards the spot or away from the spot? It sounds like “why I had to go and do that?”

          • “If he already went why is he telling us he’s going again. and why bother if the chest is supposedly found in stanza 4.”

            That’s been one of my thoughts, too. Now, I do NOT attribute everything he speaks of to being a hint. But when he states something directly related to the poem, I look closely to see if there could be something there, besides the obvious:

            He said, “Until someone finds the treasure they will not know for sure that they have discovered the first clue.”

            IF, using the entire poem , one ‘finds’ the chest at stanza 4, then where would one logically discover the first clue??

            (hi “K”……waving 🙂 )

          • Loco,
            I gotta run… but IF the chest is actually found at the end of stanza 4. That doesn’t change the possibility the starting point might not be a clue perse. Just simply the correct place to find the clues.
            {IDK if it’s counted as a clue or a hint or just saying “you are here”}

            But the poem has all the information to find the chest… It could give out that location of all the clues, and to fenn, that might not be considered a clue… more likely an answer… if we us stanza 5 in that manner. or even stanza 5 and 6.

            Which is the start of another theory…

    • ken, Is your post in regards to Loco and my posts?
      Out of interest… why is anything regarding Jacks thoughts “messing” with the poem?

      • Moving anything around…using info/words from later stanza to understand previous stanza/words just makes zero sense to me. Changing original format in any way takes the searcher right out of bounds immediately in so many ways. Grasping for straws in this context is very similar to using Wikipedia/Google to sound smart on every story that comes out here. Too many Holes to fall in. I think simple is the road to take. Subtle is subtle.

        • LOL I agree with the google one…
          Ok, Changing the format… I ask you, how do you know that is truly important?

          Or was it done for looks in the book. On the SF web page {last time I went to it} the poem lined up with the left hand column.
          So what was moved?

          You said; ‘using info/words from later stanza to understand previous stanza/words just makes zero sense to me.’

          Whether it make sense to you, is not to say it messing with the poem… nothing was change except the attempt to understand the poem from the norm of everyone else.
          Especially if a reader considers 9 line = 9 clues.. reading poem from any other point doesn’t change the order of the clues.

          you said; ‘Changing original format in any way takes the searcher right out of bounds immediately in so many ways.’

          Again why? no line were moved out of the original order, no words were moved from the lines, no words were change to another words. ~ which was the “only example” we heard of to don’t mess with my poem… {changing the word halt.}

          The only thing I see in Jack’s post that changes anything is, attempting to understand the poem as is… not as we hope it is.

          He still started reading the poem from the top to the bottom like normal, he just gave thought to how the poem tells us where to start.
          So what do you have in rebuttal to blurt out, it is messing with the poem?

          • Look Seeker…No blurting on my part or rebuttals necessary. ANY time I see anything that takes the poem and changes the flow… from beginning to end in order… is going to get that response from me. Fenn has said to read the poem over and over many times. To me…this means that a rhythm of sorts… blending of the words will develop a train of thought that makes sense. This does not happen if later words shape previous words. I say this primarily because of the whole contiguous thingy…remember that one? It stands to reason that if the clues themselves are to be contiguously followed/found, that the poem itself was designed to MAKE that so. Don’t go riding around looking for HOB before learning what the first clue is. As I have gone alone in there…sounds like a place to me.
            Fenn’s latest about geographical places/nine clues = map to the treasure.
            Format…I could go either way with that one… book format vs. OSFTP format…you pick. Lining up letters above or below, diagonal, upside down, reverse…screams code, cipher… call it whatever. When I said format…I was generalizing the term to mean using the letters individually out of context with how they were written in order…Still the same in my book.
            Jack’s ideas are cerebral for sure and well thought out with how he presented them…but sounds like conjuring to me…123456 does not work for me so let’s try 564123 and see if that works. Where does Fenn say that one?

          • Ken;

            Although I agree with much of what you say, I disagree to a certain extent. Forrest has said :“There are nine clues in the poem, and the clues are in consecutive order. If you want to find the treasure chest – you have my book there – I’ll tell you how to do it. Read the book just normally … the poem and the rest of the book, and then go back and read the poem 6, 8, 10 times – study every line, every word. Then after you do that, read the book again, slowly, with the idea of looking for clues or hints, that are in the book that will help you follow the clues. You can find the chest with just the clues, but there are hints in the book that will help you with the clues.” f

            Why must we read it over, and over, and over? For me, the last lines of stanza #6 began to flow into, Line one of stanza 1.. Thus, for me at least, I began to see the circular architecture of the poem.

            Being “Brave and in the wood” flowed into “…alone in there…” “THE WOOD” became “IN THERE” one and the same. I wasn’t messing with the poem, but one thought flowed into the next. The wood, began to define where “IN THERE” was, which began to define wwwh.

            One sentence = one clue for me.

            Information from Stanza 6 fed into stanza #1. I didn’t START at stanza 6, and then go to stanza #1 – messing with the poem – but information from
            6 flowed into 1, which flowed into stanza #2.

            Hope that this makes sense. JDA

          • You’re right Ken, he’ said read the poem, read the poem and don’t mess with the poem.

            As seeker says, reading the poem stanzas in a different sequence, 561234, may not be what Fenn was referring to when he told Dal, “don’t mess with my poem”. After all, in Dal’s case, he was attempting to change some words.

            Fenn has also said to start at the beginning….the beginning of what? He has never said we must start at the beginning of the poem(the first stanza)…… So, could he not be meaning to start at the ‘behinning of the clues’??

            There is an instance, or two, in videos where HE started reading at stanza 2, not the beginning of the poem!! 🙂

            So sure, the ‘beginning of the clues may be stanza 1 or stanza 2…..or it may be somewhere else altogether.

            The only thing that matters is that one correctly identifies the beginning of the clues and solves 1 thru 9, sequentially.

        • Ken,

          Agreed. Forrest has said he’s a simple guy. I like to think he has designed this more as a riddle than a puzzle. For me, there is a distinction between those two things.

          Designing and solving puzzles requires a methodology. Methodology is, of course, very useful for things like putting man on the moon and so many other such things, but I really think Mr. Fenn had FUN as one of the primary objectives when he thought all this up. He wanted to get kids (and their families) off their couches and texting machines and out in the sunshine.

          A riddle just seems like a much better vehicle for a FUN-centered treasure hunt. Coming up with a riddle (or solving one) requires a certain artful and clever thinking style. Riddles often look SO simple on the surface, but they can be confoundingly difficult to solve 🙂 Once the solution is revealed, everyone says “OOOHHHH” why didn’t I think of that.

          The solution is elegant and simple, IMO.

          • “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, **riddles**, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f” 

            I’m sure fenn’s list is not complete to all the dos and don’t… other have been added.
            So is the poem really a riddle? or just knowing about how riddles work won’t assist?

            But, we still have some using bible verses as clues, Codes as answers to the clues, magnetic variations, and even a flashlight and a sandwich as a clue… but recently has been said they’re not as well.

    • “Don’t mess with the poem…”

      There is no point in anybody repeating or even (in this case) paraphrasing that quote if the correct context for it cannot be confirmed.

      I can’t imagine how frustrated Copernicus must have felt with the church telling everybody that the Earth is the center of the universe.

  32. I asked Forrest this, but in the event he doesn’t respond, I’ll throw it out for discussion here as well…

    When he says that (paraphrasing) several searchers have solved the first 2 clues, do you think he means that in a general sense or a specific one?

    There is a difference between “The first 2 clues lead me to a U-shaped mountain” and “The first 2 clues lead me to Mount U just south of U-ville” though both could technically be considered “solves”.

    • Searchers mentioned the first 2 clues in an email and then went right past the other 7. There’s 9 clues total in the poem. Not sure if that helps but it seems pretty straight forward?

  33. WWWH 1- Ice, such as a glacier., 2- Tropopause . As I have gone alone in there 1- Into the wilderness., 2- Stratosphere . Too many scenarios, But I like my crazy thoughts.

    • Here’s a WhatIF Jonr,
      How many places in the RM’s where you can only go alone in there?
      Maybe, there is a need/reasoning to ~ leave your partner n the car. Maybe it’s a place two can not attend at once.

      • Seeker,

        a person can go into a thousand acre area…alone… with no one else around.
        In the book TTOTC Mr f talks about going into another art store and saw signs everywhere that read…Do Not Touch (paraphrasing)…makes me think about trail signs that say…Stay On Trail.

        IMO…a person should leave the partner in the car so they do not find the chest first…finders keepers.

      • There is no trick in that what if . That’s an easy one. It’s a journey we all take alone, it’s like being born again.

      • Seeker,

        And what makes you think that that all clues apply to the RMs? Forrest has told us time and again the chest is in the RMs, but to my knowledge, he has never said all the clues are also in the RMs.

        If I am incorrect, then please correct me as my solve does not “start” in the RMs.


        • Your correct, fenn only stated, thus far, the chest is in the RM’s. I have been a big advocator to such…
          But where did I say “all” the clues were.

          Heck, two of my theories posted here both have clues outside the Range and even the US…

  34. I’m very confused. Three ghosts have visited me lately. Billy Barry showed up but he’s been short with me lately. He hasn’t said much.
    My Grandmother’s departed Spirit still insists that the chest is in Wyoming. But now Jack Elam’s ghost appeared and said it all depends on how you look at things.

    I think I still believe it’s in Wyoming–but Jack got me wondering.

    • Oz, this is what I have:

      Jan., 2013 – Hemispheres Magazine – – – –
      He hasn’t gone back to his hiding place to see if the treasure is still there. He assumes it hasn’t been found (though he knows of “more than a few people” who have searched within 500 feet of the site), and that suits him fine. “I think that I’ll be a little disappointed when it is found, because the mystery will be gone.”

      AUG. 10, 2014 – – – – – Based on some emails, Fenn said he believes they have come within 200 feet of the treasure.

      If anyone has earlier, feel free to chime in!

      • Thanks loco. I was pretty sure it was 2013. Scanning through MW, on the six questions of Feb 4th. 2015 he said: “Very few tell me exactly where they are looking so I don’t know how close they are to the treasure.”

        The question was: do you feel searchers are becoming closer to solving the clues to the treasure, or further away? But his answer seems to clearly point to the -where-. Just a bit confusing.

        • This one also at the end of search season 2014 -I know of a few searchers who have been reasonably close to the treasure puttputt, but there is no indication that they knew it. No one has given me the correct solve past the first two clues.f

        • Oz10,
          It was really a two part question. The second part;
          Do you feel over time, some searchers have forgotten beginning basics or thoughts they once had, and might benefit going back to them?

          His answer seemed to relate to both…

          • There’s no advice on my posting, JDA.
            I simply pointed out that it was a two part question.

            Although Jenny’s question was well thought out.

          • Hi @Seeker – I have over four years of notes, pictures, Word documents, photo comparisons, paths to take, word usage, word meanings, etc.

            I haven’t gotten rid of anything, because they all show – when combined –
            my search history, to be used if I ever wanted to write a book or do something with the material.

            Actually, there is still some that was usable in my current solve.


            It would take a big effort for me to remove myself from my search area, so I am not quite ready to trash them yet.

            Cheers and good luck!

          • Seeker, my take is that the answer could have been worded differently esp. since the 500/200 comments were already out.

            What I was actually researching was how freakishly VAGUE the first two clues must be since those who have solved them went past the others. Did they not know and discard them after not finding the chest? Were they -outside the search area map- and were not confident enough? One clue maybe not be much but two clues must point somewhere imo.

          • IMO they didn’t stop and pause where they were to see the things right there before them. They felt they needed to go further…they walked too far.

          • Perhaps they misunderstood the poem and “took in the canyon down”.

            At this point, they have passed by the remaining clues.

            Just a thought on a possible scenario…

          • Sure, they didn’t stop right there or they kept on looking for the canyon, say they got confused on clue #3 but if the first 2 were unmistakably spot on you would think that after 3-4 years those searchers would be getting closer. We still talking about millions of dollars and bragging rights.

            Maybe that’s happening, it’s hard to know but I argue they are not specific enough to keep them hot on that trail and perhaps they have moved on to other interpretations.

          • I didn’t find my WWWH until I had actually been in the area with BOTG, and stumbled across is.

            I now can understand why FF says what he has concerning this.

          • Do we even know if those people “solved” the first two clues or did they just happen to mention them to FF in the email?

          • Oz10,
            The first two clues comments have been a bur in my saddle for sometime now.
            Searcher indicated the clues to fenn, telling him their process.

            I have trouble with the thought that they all took the same wrong turn… or clues three.

            I also wouldn’t classify the first two clues a vague… you could be right… But I’m leaning toward, They were correct in their location, and wrong in the assumption, that the place is only a place. A single point just to find.

            I’m starting to go back to an old concept I had… we might need to use the clue {s}.

            I find that all the comments about those searchers, all were in regards to the first two clues… never once a mention of the first clue alone… ya know… the one that we need to nail down. Don’t you find that a little weird they all seem to get the first two?

            And as a late… the first four clues. But something still appears to missing.

            Could it be how we {searchers} all seemingly “proceed” with the clues?

            Folks like to say; “hides in plain sight…” I think it’s possible the searcher saw exactly what was supposed to be seen… they just didn’t know why they needed to see it.
            It’s possible, I repeat, possible that the method of “following” is slightly off.

          • Yes weird, he did say -several- have identified the first clue correctly but he cannot imagine anyone finding the treasure without first identifying the starting point.

            So If you have clue #1 you don’t have the starting point, but if you have 1 and 2 and attempt to go for 3 you most likely will pass all others… the twilight zone.

            Question, WWWH is always clue one or two but never the 3rd. Do you remember anybody’s solve where they had a good (or not so good) argument for wwwh being the third? Or maybe they had wwwh as the second still, but they had a 1st clue with two parts to it using ONLY the first stanza?

          • Oz,
            You said: Yes weird, he did say -several- have identified the first clue correctly but he cannot imagine anyone finding the treasure without first identifying the starting point.”

            Probably good to remember that solving the clues is a multi-part process. First you must decide what line of the poem is a clue, and then you need to figure out what the clue means.
            When F says people have “identified” a clue “correctly”, it could just mean they picked the correct line and told him they think it’s a clue (or maybe the first clue) not that they actually knew what it meant.

            We need to be careful with assumptions about what Fenn is telling us. Just saying.

          • Colo,
            Out of 24 lines in the poem and 7 years later we have only identified 3 maybe 4 lines in the poem that point to the 9 clues correctly? Is that what you are saying?

          • Depending on what number you consider to be ‘certainly more than several’ and ‘many’, there are a more searchers who have had the first clue correct as compared to have two clues correct.

            Q. Forrest, you have stated that several searchers correctly identified the first two clues in your poem. Could you tell us how many searchers to your knowledge have correctly identified the first clue correctly? Thanks. ~49 Dollars
            A. No 49, I cannot tell you how many searchers have identified the first clue correctly, but certainly more than several. I cannot imagine anyone finding the treasure without first identifying the starting point, although many seem to be preoccupied with later clues. To me that’s just expensive folly. f

            Q. Do expect that people will somehow *know* for sure once they have found the first clue?
            A. No, many people have found the first clue but they didn’t know it. Until someone finds the treasure they will not know for sure that they have discovered the first clue.
            Q. Or they might have found it without realizing it?
            A. Yes

          • Ah! guys,
            fenn, in one comment stated “deciphered” the first two clues”
            With other wordings in other comments such as; Indicated, found, etc.

            Yet, if supposedly we can find the first clue{s} on a map… what is it they didn’t see?

          • Oz,
            That was not the point I was trying to make. With perhaps the exception of HOB, and the Blaze (both of which F has told us are clues) there remains little agreement on which lines in the poem are clues. But even if you knew for sure which were clues, then you would still need to solve the clue. So it’s a two step process…..identify the correct phrase in the poem, and then solve it for useful information.

            So when f says searchers have identified the first clue, you don’t really know if he’s saying they picked the correct phrase, or whether they solved the phrase for useful information.

          • Colo,

            I see what you are saying with the two part to the clues, it wasn’t obvious. Do you think that when he answered that question he was talking about those who -identified- the proper word/line/phrase/sentence in the poem that points to the first clue, but not the actual ‘useful information’ of that clue?

          • Colokid, Oz10

             “Those who have **solved* the first two clues are not aware that they did,** so I don’t see that as useful information for anyone. I will not comment on any solutions that are sent to me by email. Good luck sir. f ” {Forrest gets mail}

            “Solved,” whether or not the searchers knew… say, that fenn knows they mentioned those clues correctly.

            “There are several people that have ***deciphered* the first two clues. *** I don’t think they knew it, because they walked right on past the treasure chest.”– (Moby Dickens Book Shop Signing / November 2, 2013)

            Again, the searchers told fenn what the first two clues refer to, but they may not have know… And now maybe as many as the first 4 clues with the same result.

            Colokid said ~”So it’s a two step process…..identify the correct phrase in the poem, and then solve it for useful information.”

            I agree, but what seems to be another problem might be, Why are these clues needed to be know other than just a place/location… searchers have
            told fenn;
            ‘where they were.’
            Fenn knows they;

            All seem to indicate searchers being on location with, {at the very least}, the correct thought of the clues in their minds… and then… something went amidst to the why there…So, instead of asking why didn’t they know { as I have in the past } I’ll rephrase and ask;

            What didn’t the see?

          • Seeker, …What didn’t they see?
            Is that darn canyon if you ask me…
            No seriously, I have no idea and in a way it doesn’t make sense if you think about it.

            We need the first clue, we also need to know where to start those are a MUST, but we may have 2 to 4 clues deciphered but then go on and past the location looking for other clues. Not even knowing we were that close in the first place because we didn’t understand the already deciphered clues. Others have stopped there without a clue, within a few hundred feet from the chest.

          • Oz,
            Folks mentioned the two clues. So as they continue, they think they are on their way to another clue… makes sense, right?

            The problem might be… the first two clues being so closely related it might appear to be 1 clue in everyone’s mind. This would automatically send them looking for clue 2, when they should be looking for clue three.

            This is a hard concept to think, if WWWH and Canyon down are considered the first two clues… How can anyone get water{s} and a canyon screwed up, right? Not know them.

            Options? wwwh is the second clue and closely related to the first clue, and even though the first clue was mentioned ~ those folks didn’t get the connection. I don’t think the ‘wrong turn’ or ‘not understanding’ happens later… it’s more than likely it’s from the start.

            Because, IF water{s} and canyon happen to be ‘the’ first two clues… how the heck can anyone ‘not know’?
            We simply see waters and canyon as separate but might be only one clue…line of thinking.

            The other option is, The clues themselves. We are told there are 9 clues… told to match to a map… but are they matched separately? or Contiguous… literally touching each other… are we seeing what fenn see? A mud pudding to an ant looks like an ocean, right.
            With what perception are we supposed to be looking at the clues…
            Imagination might be the key to understand how the first two clues were actually deciphered, mentioned, told of… but not known

            One other thought that has been bugging me is the usage of water{s} and how we think it what it might refer to… rivers merging, waterfall, hot springs…. has anyone consider that the “waters” are from two different sources? That travel two different paths, that don’t come together until water high? hence marking the blaze.
            Again perspective of how fenn relates seeing what he see, to what we think we see. And it all seems to relate to the very start… not so much down the path and everyone took a wrong turn.

            Just thoughts.

          • Seeker, your first option seems more plausible. Take the clues in the poem and marry them to the map. First and second not enough to do that apparently. Why? Could the first clue leave you with too many options and the second does not help to narrow it down? Now you need the third but at what time you can ‘marry to the map’?

            By his comments it seems like what nobody has been able to solve is the starting point. Not sure about that, did he ever say that some have solved/or been to the starting point?

          • Oz and Seeker,

            You are right. One of you is absolutely right. IMO. I am still trying to understand -why- one of you is -absolutely- right.

            In any event, IMHO we have SB 176 and paths leading from that SB absolutely full of clues.

          • Lmn, which theory is right?

            I did watch the video from Gene Scott that you suggested. I liked it, he seemed like a very good speaker. I did notice something very small out of the ordinary, not sure if that is what you meant though.
            The rest of the sermon was centered on one topic but I just don’t know if Mr. F is that religious. He has said he is more spiritual than religious, and his church is in the mountains and river bottoms. Maybe you can explain your theory.

          • LMN ~”In any event, IMHO we have SB 176 and paths leading from that SB absolutely full of clues.”

            Ok, what about fenn saying he’s not giving out any more clues? or fenn saying he’s determined not to hand out any useful clues? But you think the SB has clues.

            One of you are right. One of you is absolutely right. imo.

      • Loco, OZ10 –

        Don’t forget these from 2012… I suspect the search party f mentions was probably there in May or June 2012 based upon his comment below.

        I use a small f because I’m too lazy to hit the shift button. All of this cyberspace verbiage is conspicuous by the absence of talk about where warm waters halt. Several months ago some folks correctly mentioned the first two clues to me in an email and then they went right past the other seven, not knowing that they had been so close. Alas, and dame fortune, so often a fickle and seductive wench, never spun her wheel to lure them back.

        Some few have stopped within several hundred feet of the correct location, and then passed it by. I said in my book that the solution will be difficult but not impossible. If it was easy anyone could do it. Whoever finds the treasure will mostly earn it with their imagination. I have done only a few things in my life that were truly planned. Hiding the treasure chest is one of them. And at the end, the one who finds the gold will not feel lucky, but instead, will ask himself, “what took me so long?”

        It is all there in my Chasing Words of Forrest Fenn Documents…

        • Why would anyone go out and buy your “imagination”, if they can summon up their own?

          • Tim – I am not sure what you mean by ‘imagination’ and summon’ing up their own…

            If a person who hasn’t been collecting the comments, quotes, Q&A’s and other after-the-fact statements from f, which he has specifically made about finding his treasure chest since the chase began, they can dedicate many, many, hundreds of hours to trying to find them all (which more than a few are no longer out there to be found), or they can skip a trip to the movies on Saturday night with their significant other and have all of f’s words in front of them.

            So what value does a person place on their time? Those who want to recreate what I already have done could value their time at a couple cents per hour.

            I would think people would prefer spending all that time thinking about finding f’s chest, and not trying to search and find where he said something that they can’t quite remember.

            This collection is not required to find the chest, but I can tell you from a number of the searchers solves that I have read over the years, that if they had read and studied this collection, they would have saved themselves a lot of time chasing wrong ideas and even more in money spent on searches that were doomed from the get-go.

            The documents may not be for everyone, but anyone serious about this challenge would be wise to consider and investigate all the tools that will significantly benefit their search efforts, and my documents are one of those tools.

            Good luck!!!

          • Hi JCM.

            Thanks for clarifying. You answered my question very well.

            IMO – the thousands of hours I’ve put into this, actually added to the thrill, the anticipation, the obstacles, the etc., etc., etc….

            It was fun and others may find your tool useful.

            Good luck to you as well.

          • Hey Tim, Isn’t it ironic that Mr. Fenn wanted to get people away from their computers and in the woods but how many total hours have people spent searching the web for clues instead of going out to actually physically search for the TC? The clues are in the poem so put away the electronics and go seek the treasure. IMO

          • Hi Michael.

            I agree.

            After I found out about this hunt in Mar 2013 – I ran with it for two years. Managed to finally get a solve that looked good enough for me to search… I went out with my team.

            Now it is a little more than two years later, from that first search, and I am ready to go out again. This time with the details tuned a bit more and to add depth and clarity to them……

            This next trip will be a good trip for me.

            Cheers and good luck to you.

          • Hey Tim. How many are on your team and will you divide the spoils equally if you find the TC? Does everyone of your teammates work on the clues? Just curious how the team thing works.

          • We started with three people and Equal shares is the dividend. We all do our own thinking and then bounce what we think to be good thoughts against the others.

            We go with the best.

            The first path, was my solve. The second path is also my solve.

          • I will share equally with my team Its a sin to be greedy, Not to mention the disgrace it would be to take from the man who gave so graciously. My Faith is Strong, Can’t wait to give the bracelet back.

          • Hey Tim, Isn’t it ironic that Mr. Fenn wanted to get people away from their computers and in the woods but how many total hours have people spent searching the web for clues instead of going out to actually physically search for the TC? The clues are in the poem so put away the electronics and go seek the treasure. IMO So yes I enjoy reading the blogs but it is not a waste of time to search while enjoying a nice vacation with others. Imagination can fill the voids and take us to places we might never see. IMO

          • Michae DE –
            These are wise words you speak. When I look back on my treasure hunting trips, it was all the wrong turns I made that I will remember the most. Mr Fenn designed the Chase to take you to some of his favorite places in the Rockies. The scenery, the mountains, the rivers, lakes and streams, the animals in a wilderness setting, it’s all spectacular and it has far exceeded my expectations. If you haven’t yet left your home and your cell phone or computer (or the cockpit of your F15) you missed out on the adventure of a lifetime. My opinion.

        • Thanks JCM,

          I didn’t have that one, so back in 2012 he said: “Some few have stopped within several hundred feet of the correct location, and then passed it by.”

          Regardless if that was the hidey spot or the starting point, those several searchers actually STOPPED there. If it wasn’t a rest stop or a red light…lol, why did they -stopped- there but then kept moving? Was it a monument, a memorial, a lookout, a visitor center of sorts or something/somewhere that must be seen on the way?
          Most people were searching NM and CO in the early years, so I guess the probability is higher there, maybe not.

          I wonder if some of them thought to themselves, this seems like a good place to start my search but later disqualify it by thinking; this area will not be good enough for ff, it wouldn’t make sense here is too simple..
          Just putting some ideas out there for those ‘several’ searchers who were out there those years to retrace their steps.

          • I mixed the terms, a FEW searchers stopped within SEVERAL hundreds feet from the place.

            That reminds me of those who got there by aberration but didn’t even know why they were there in the first place, more to the point, why did they still stopped there even when none of their clues pointed to that place???

          • OZ10 – ‘stopped’ is a question I have spent years considering, and it has been discussed several times over the years on the blogs.

            It’s these little phrases, wordings, and nuances in f’s comments that are the most yielding of information. Many of his comments have them (though I think some overlook them) and they are one of the main things I focus on, study, and analyze. It’s a thinking thing for me that reveals much detail about where the chest may be hidden at and how to go about finding it.

          • JCM, I can imagine it has been discussed to death here and other blogs. Still, I can’t help it but go on a tangent thinking about it.

            We know the ‘place’ is of dear significance to ff, and important enough for it to be his resting place regardless if anyone found out for a long time, and some people over the last few years have -stopped- there but didn’t know.

            We know not everybody that goes on a search sends an email to ff, but out of those thousands that did, a few of them wrote of that place they stopped by. They found it important enough to include that one place/name in that email to let ff they were there for whatever reason. Maybe they thought it was a place that ff will be interested in, something related to his life I imagine. After all we are humans and we want to relate or impress upon others.

            Now, I know that could be any number of places since ff did and took interest in many different things throughout his life. I’m thinking it is some kind of landmark, and the chest is several hundred feet from there. I doubt that most of those who took the time to email ff decided to include every place they stopped by on their trip, just the relevant ones. Interesting…

        • JCM. Loco, OZ10, et al,

          It is my opinion that folks are trying to correlate that some folks have been within 200 feet with some other folks that have solved the first two clues. I strongly suspect that these are not the same group of people and there is no correlation along those lines. They are simply two stand-alone factoids about the chase. In my minds eye, I can easily see someone walking within 200 feet of Indulgence who have not solved a single clue – just dumb luck got them into proximity, and they reported their excursion to Mr. Fenn. Maybe they solved a clue or two, but that is a large leap of faith that I just cannot take at the moment. It is my supposition that more folks have solved the first couple of clues, but don’t have a starting point, so are stymied. This is a group I think I find myself in, though I am not thoroughly convinced (read confident) so as to put boots on the ground just yet.

          Good luck all!

          • swott – considering that the searchers who have ‘solved’ / ‘identified’ / ‘cracked’ / ‘correctly mentioned’ / ‘figured’ / figured out’ / ‘deciphered’ the first two clues have also ‘went right past the other seven’ clues and ‘went right past the treasure’ / ‘walked right past the treasure chest’, how far away would you say the chest is from the last clue?

          • I know this subject has been discussed to death with many good points of view. It seems there are three probable scenarios regarding searchers/non-searchers who have solved’ / ‘identified’ / ‘cracked’ / ‘correctly mentioned’ / ‘figured’ / figured out’ / ‘deciphered’ the first two clues. And then went past, walked past, blah blah the next 7 clues. Doesn’t it seem like the line “put in below the home of Brown” is where everyone is making their mistake? I think most people agree that hoB is clue 3 or 4, whether you think each line is a clue, or the first clue is in the first stanza, or Begin wwwh is the first clue followed by canyon down, not far but too far to walk. Logically thinking along these lines, it seems to me that the treasure chest has to be within 200 feet of the end of clue 2, before clue 3 or 4 if you think hoB is clue 4. The people scenarios are: searchers who correctly solved the first two clues, meaning they know what wwwh is and where it is. Only after clue 2 and before Put in below the home of Brown, they mess up by not understanding what they need to identify as home of Brown. I think it is something you need to look up to see, and then “Put-in” there, which means get off the trail, get away from the river/stream, cross the stream (this is doable in NM but probably not elsewhere and I think he waded due to his prevaricating answer on Jenny’s site). Since other searchers have arrived at the same place but don’t know it, it seems like they are still on a hiking trail or along a fishing stream and have not figured out what warm waters halt was; other wise they’d be in the same category as the people who had solved the first two clues. Then the last category of people are the hikers, fishermen, hunters, outdoors folks who just arrive there at clue number two because they are hiking, fishing, etc. It is a common area used by outdoors people, not Fenn treasure hunters. But it isn’t like Old Faithful where a million tourists swarm to, but a place lesser known and mostly used by locals. And since he said people “stop” at clue two, maybe it is at the end of a dead-end road where you park to hike and fish. Or it is at a Y in a trail, where you have two choices and people stop to read the trail signs. Most folks take the main trail, instead of crossing/wading, walking across a log to cross the stream here. I know of a place that fits this description. It is still blanketed in snow.

          • JCM,

            Concerning the distance between the last clue and Indulgence, I would say,”as far as the eye can see”. I’m not being glib nor trying to be funny, it’s just that for me, the final clue to finding the chest is to “look quickly down”. The question is, how far away are you when you look? Are you standing right on top of it so that it is less than a foot from you, or are you looking down into a canyon where you can see it 50 or more feet away? Unsure. As you can tell from my response, I fall into the camp of searchers that suspects you’ll know it when you see it, but can’t know it from looking at a map, which means BOTG reconnaissance and retrieval are mandatory.

            Good luck on your search!

          • To me it sounds like they made it to one of the clues, hence they made a point to note that they stopped by there, and then went the wrong direction. This clue that they stopped on could be a few different ones but I believe it’s most likely HOB. HOB is somewhere around the 4th clue depending on how you view the poem, and the rest of the clues just seem a little more vague to me. Which makes me think its a good spot to get off the trail. A few hundred feet is about what would be left around the 4th clue too IMO.

  35. I’m guessing the first 2 clues are specific things that they mentioned to f in their process. For awhile they or anyone else didn’t mention the correct figuring that gives clue 3. Then, someone possibly did up till clue 4. I think the blaze is the thing out there that most people would just pass by and not think it’s significant. F just hid it in the poem right out in the open but many are looking for the spectacular. It’s just a common thing seen often. IMO

  36. Hi all , Mr. D here

    I hear a lot of folks say they know the first clue .

    Fenn said you wont realize you have unlocked the first clue

    unless you found the box. He said start at begin it where warm waters halt .

    That is true. He said so , but I think that is when you would already be there , and from there is the changing of the direction . IMO


    • Hi, Mr. D. I’m not 100% sure I understand what you are asking, but I’ll try to give some thoughts.

      I think Forrest was saying that nobody will know for sure that they have any of the clues solved correctly in general until they actually find the chest.

      I do not remember ever hearing Forrest specifically say start at BIWWWH; but I’m not one of the people who goes back and looks up every Forrest quote so I could be wrong. There seem to be a good number of people who think that there are clues in the poem before BIWWWH, so that’s why I am guessing that Forrest never said such a thing.

      It sounds like you are asking if the TC location could be at the same location as WWWH. I don’t see why that can’t be the case. I don’t think so, but that’s just my opinion.

      • Who said you have to retrieve it or even see it before you find it. You can find it in the poem. My opinion.

        • I’m not sure I follow what you’re saying, Iceman. How can you find it without seeing it?

          • Sorry, that part is not easy to explain. I mean I could tell you, but then I’d have to kill you. Sometimes I crack me up. 🙂

          • Haha! Very well then. I’m looking forward to hearing your solve when the time is right! 🙂

  37. First, I would like to address some of the ambiguity around the solving of the clues.

    It is possible that Forrest meant several people have solved the first clue and several people have solved the second clue and thus the statement several people have solved the first two clues.

    It is also possible that the first two clues means the first two clues to be solved, not clue one and clue 2. I.e. the first clue hinting at a general location for the final area is also addressed in clue 4.

    Here is how to read the portion of the poem from “Begin it” through “drawing nigh” in my best redneck direction giving personification:

    So what you wanta do is take this here road from Agua Fria up thar pass Agua Fria and down through Cimarron Canyon. Ain’t far north of that Agua Fria bout eight mile I reckon, but its too far to walk from here cuz its more than 92 miles. So from thar your gunna head up to Raton Pass, you’re gunna see Climax Canyon thar on ya left.

    • HumblePie, I think Fenn wrote the poem so that none of the clues can be circumvented. This is why he keeps hammering on the first clue and wwwh. I’m not arguing that wwwh is the first clue, or the second….I don’t care. This is why I think all nine clues have to be close together; otherwise, you can skip the first several and go right to hoB or the blaze…only he has said you cannot find the treasure chest using this method. He says, you have to find the correct wwwh, wherever and whatever that is…If we use your method, I could have skipped “Begin it” through “drawing nigh” and just started searching Climax Canyon because I like the name of it. Plus if you named the correct first two clues in your comment, people can’t WALK past the next seven. All imo since I’m not in possession of the treasure chest, yet. And btw, I liked Cimarron Canyon as a search area, and so did dozens or hundreds of other searchers. It’s a beautiful place to spend a day, or two.

      • When Fenn said “There are several people that have deciphered the first two clues. I don’t think they knew it, because they walked right on past the treasure chest.” – perhaps he simply meant that these people did not solve the 3rd clue, which one could possibly surmise to include the line “Not far, but too for to walk.” Perhaps Fenn didn’t literally mean that these folks walked in close proximity to the treasure chest.

  38. Imagine that the Chase is a high stakes poker game. The clues you figured are the cards in your hand. One of the players just stated he had a royal flush. You have reason to believe he’s not bluffing. Are you going to stay in the game? If so please reply. I want names. I want to know how many players think they also have a perfect hand. No jokers please.

    • If the player had a royal flush then they would be holding cards 10-Ace which would be 5 cards. If the prerequisite number of cards to win the game is nine that would mean then said player is four of a kind short of cashing in. I’m all in!

      • Bug-
        You don’t get to make the rules in my imagination. Think 9-card stud. Still in? Tally ho?

        • I’ve never won anything in my life but I keep trying. I’m still all in one way or the other. I’ve got a family trip already booked for later this year. Good thing there are plenty of other things to do in the Rocky Mountains. You may want to make alternate plans as well. Just saying!

    • I’m not royal flush confident, but I like my hand against a random ATC (any two cards). Anyone that tells you they’re more than 50% confident (I’ll find it or I won’t) before TC is in their hands is fooling themselves, imo.

      • Hi Fmc – you speak abruptly.

        There will be a winner to this puzzle……you are speaking as if it will never be solved.

        “It’s not impossible, just difficult.” – f

        Therefore – it is solvable.

        Give yourself and others a bit more credit for their efforts.

        It will be solved.

    • Iceman,
      It always fun to play who’s who and what’s what…
      But what is the point to the inquiry of the post?
      “One of the players just stated he had a royal flush. You have reason to believe he’s not bluffing. Are you going to stay in the game?”

      Are you saying, that if a searcher claims to know they got the winning hand {solve} would we stay in the challenge {chase}, if we thinks that searcher is correct?

      The bluff only works if no one calls… I’m calling.

      • Seeker-
        As usual you missed the point. I’m not looking to make anyone quit. I’m looking for threats. You are not one of them. Don’t quit your day job.

        • What’s the threat if you get the player to fold? It’s the one that calls you need to worry about.

          It doesn’t matter what you think … You truly have no clue what others are really working on… It’s hysterical and ludicrous that you think you can even know by this post inquiry.

          Go ahead play your silly game… I’m here to talk to those who actually want to have discussions, and not those who boost “they know within 3′.” And still sit behind a monitor playing head-games…

    • Of course stay in the game. What’s the worst that can happen? You’ll have a fun trip hiking in the Rockies, as long as you plan on doing some fun “regular” hikes in addition to all of those hikes just looking for the treasure chest. That’s going to be one nice thing about the treasure chest being found: people can go back to hiking the Rockies for the sake of hiking the Rockies.

      That said, I think I’ve got a pretty good hand. I call!

    • That would only work if the guy holding the Royal Flush knew for a fact he was holding a Royal Flush, and he can’t know that until he retrieves the treasure. Your situation is more like everyone is holding 5 cards whose face values they don’t know (except the dealer, Mr. Fenn). By default, everyone at the table is bluffing. Are you a better bluffer than everyone else?

      • Nmc –
        Don’t confuse my imagination with reality. There is no need to be defensive either. It’s all hypothetical. The question is do you think you have a royal flush? Yes or No. it’s a simple question if you chose to play the game.

        • Sounds to me like you’re the defensive one. I have no reason to believe you’re holding a Royal Flush, and neither does anyone else at the table. But I’ll go ahead and play by your contrived rules and respond “all in”. There, feel better?

        • *smiles*

          I have a “Straight Flush”….meaning I will walk straight to the end result of my solve.

          Is it correct or is it wrong?

          IMO – I did manage to connect all the clues (what I think are clues) in the poem with an actual path to take.

          I’m well above 50% confidence…..but for me, it is now a waiting game for two things….my vacation and the money that I will use to embark on the journey.

          I’ll be extra surprised if this works out as well as I am hoping.

      • I like games, and I like bluffing. Though if I REALLY wanted to bluff, I could say that I’ve found the treasure chest already. It’s sitting here on my desk next to my computer as I type this, and I’m just taking my sweet time in letting anyone know about it. 🙂

        Of course, that would not be nice. Rest assured, if I’m the finder, I’m going to send a brief message to dal with a photo of the chest as proof so that he can let everyone know right away. I am respectful of the fact that many people are making oftentimes expensive travel plans solely based on the Chase, and knowing that the treasure is found will affect those plans. I hope that whomever does find the treasure takes a similar path out of respect for others.

        • I agree with you Blex on the advisory in courtesy. I am coming from Canada to search and it is quite an expense for me to do so. But I am very curious to know if I have succeeded in solving this puzzle. So, I will go and find out . If I come back empty, it will still have been worth it.

          • Something tells me that you may have a solve in close proximity to my city of residence, Alsetenash! If that’s the case, let me know when you’re heading out and maybe we can meet up for a drink at a good local brewery!

          • Blex, something tells you I am close to where you live? I am not sure if that is true or not. I guess you read my previous comments but I have never actually said my location though. But if so that it is close to you,, I don’t see why not a whiskey of cheers!

          • Sorry, Alsetenash. Maybe I’m leaping to conclusions, but I thought you said that your solve was heavy into Tesla somehow, who operated out of Colorado Springs. Anyways, whiskey sounds good if you end up heading out this way!

          • Hey Blex, I did mention tesla before. It was not much in my solve, just read it somewhere else not here. More about Einstein quote in FF book. I researched and realized it as so. I like allot about Colorado Springs , it has many plausibles for sure. I’ll let you know if I am around for a whiskey and rye with some American Pie. Cheers!

    • LOL!! You can’t change the rules of the game…..F already said there is a Joker in everyone’s hand!

      If you have to ask that question….ya probably oughta RUN!! 🙂

      (“You have to know when to hold ’em, know when to fold ’em, know when to walk away and know when to RUN!!!”)

      Good Luck to Ya, iceman!!

      oh, and never underestimate the Seeker 🙂

    • I am probably going to search in about a month or so. But I won’t know if my hand will be the winner until I do. For me,until then, it is just the devils right hand( Steve Earl). It will be my one and only search.

    • Well iceman, I’m deciding whether to nuke you or just laugh. I got here late and don’t have the time to delete this thread so I’ll just laugh.

      Here’s my bet; anyone that ask these type of silly hypothetical questions doesn’t have a chance finding the treasure. They are just trying to stir up trouble with the over emotional paranoid folks by insinuating they know something more than the rest of us.

      If you have something to say about the nine clues that’s fine, but don’t waste anymore of our time with silly off topic questions.

    • Ok, Iceman. I’m adding one additional caveat to your game. It’s like a real high stakes poker game, meaning it’s multi-deck. So, yep, I call. Not raising, but I will call. I don’t have a royal flush yet, but I have enough interesting cards to keep me in the game.And I imagine a lot of other searchers feel the same way. So all the best to searchers in their card games and their hunt.

      • Ok good. I think we might need a bigger table and couple extra decks of cards for this game. Wouldn’t it be interesting if we all had the same solve.

        • Can we have a poker night at Fennboree? I don’t know how to play but I could utube it… Desertfile do you still have some of those Forrest Fenn cards I can buy? Or maybe we could play Canasta 🙂

          • Oh heck yea. You might need to bring your six shooter with this bunch. And maybe keep your horse tied around back for a quick getaway. Canasta I think is only for those that don’t have the first clue. I think we should stick to Poker. My opinion.

    • Obviously you would call, Iceman. No one says they have a royal flush if they actually have one. It’s an unbeatable hand. What would be the point? It doesn’t put any more money in the pot. Call that @#$%. 🙂

      • And if you “have reason to believe he’s not bluffing”, all that means is that you shouldn’t trust your own judgement.

        • Jeremy-
          If you it all I never said I did have a royal flush, but then never said I didn’t. It’s all in fun. It sounds like your in. Threat noted.

          • We have given our best shot only to have our ear not hear what he is trying to get across.

            Someday, someone will forge his thoughts & lead them to the treasure.

          • Hi Jake – you seem to finally understood my methodology.

            Be the chest… his thoughts.

            Be simple yet unsophisticated.

            Be imaginative.

            Be Fenn.

            One needs to understand Fenn in order to understand his context.

            It’s a lot…huh? Not impossible though.

            Good luck.

        • You decide if FF made a reference or not….when he mentions Canasta.

          BTW – I’ve played Canada when I was a kid. Another similiarity with FF and I….hmmm…interesting.


          The Two of Clubs:entertaining, the Two of Clubs person loves to socialize and be with others who enjoy talking and sharing ideas. Always curious, they seek to know what motivates a person, which can serve them well, whether as a counselor or even an actor.

          Particularly powerful in their life script is the King of Clubs in Mercury. A natural leader with a keen mind for original thoughts and problem solving, the Two of Clubs is a natural in any arena that encourages innovation and uniqueness. They need to be careful that this bold energy is directed in a positive way or it may result in mental sparring, debating, arguing, stubbornness and generally being a “know-it-all.”

          Relationships are great teachers and this is no less applicable to the Two of Clubs person. Their Two of Spades in Saturn indicates that relationships are the vehicle for spiritual growth in their life. Rather than be alone in life (something this people person avoids at all costs), they will sometimes settle for an unsuitable partner. Through personal and spiritual exploration, indicated by their Ace of Spades Challenging Karma Card (-KC), the Two of Clubs person can reach new heights of self-worth and self-esteem that make partnering with another highly rewarding and fulfilling.

          Read more….to learn more….to think more….to be more.

          Good luck to all.

  39. Does anybody remember back in 1963 the move it a Mad Mad Mad Mad world with Jonathan Winters this is going to be a foot race!,!!!,!

    • Yes— it was the second to the last movie Spencer Tracy was in before he died. The treasure was under Palm Trees shaped in a “W”.

  40. IMO. They didn’t see what they weren’t looking for. Hard to find something you don’t know what it looks like. Not impossible but you could miss it in plain sight if you don’t know what something looks like. If someone asks me to help find their dog or cat that ran off, I ask what breed the dog or cat is and it looks looks like. Otherwise, I see dogs and cats everywhere and would have a tough time guessing which one could be theirs. Their cat or dog could walk right past me and I wouldn’t know it was theirs unless it matched their given description. IMO

    • Clint –
      I have no idea what you’re talking about, but nice of you to join the card game. Eastwood I presume.

  41. ok here is my take on wwwh – imo its not the first clue – its the place where you start – to go to home of brown – you have to know what is wwwh – so for that you go to stanza 3 where it tells you what is wwwh and to know that you have the right wwwh is by hob – so to me stanza 3 is the first clue – all this is imo

    • Frank, have you married anything yet? You know, pair some clues with places. Fenn says plenty of armchair searchers are studying maps and the like.

      Looking foolish is what we do best… IMO

      • 9 clues seems to me that you know what wwwh is hob and the blaze so my comment above does not pertain to you thanks for your reply

  42. No Westwood!! Get it west in the wood ha ha . Be in the west soon can’t hardly waiting or to get the weight.

    • I’ve posted many times as a seeker and always have been promoting….’in order to solve this puzzle, one must think like Forrest.’….

      Not only has that been helpful for me I pushed others to do the same. Many try and cannot focus enough to do so, probably because of the many stories and adventures running through your head when trying.

      Alas!! Dal has helped….Thank you Dal for including Scrapbook 179.

      Now, for those wanting to know…you can read it right from Forrest.

      Good luck to all.

        • None taken Sparrow. Shoot…never even put it with mine….hang loose.

          What did you think of that “Two of Clubs” post…interesting, huh?

          I found something new shout that card myself….my birthday is on one of those days….so I guess in that esoteric language, I am but one of many. I also noticed that FF missed it by two days…..if Aug 22nd….is truly his birthday…..wink-wink, nudge-nudge…..

          Just a coinicidence I’m sure….look up “psynchronicities” and how they apply to one’s life…..past, present, and future.

          It will intrigue you for what you find.

          Good luck.

  43. This morning we did an easter prize hunt in the backyard for our two older boys that are two old for an egg hunt. One is 12 the other 17. We put a lot of thought into poems written similar to Fenn’s and I feel like it gave me insight into his. Each clue was one stanza of four lines and designed to lead to the next clue and a prize. We had key words in the poem that we felt would lead right to the next hidden clue. They just overlooked words we thought were important and were having a hard time in a small backyard, though it does have good hiding places. I feel like some of these key words in Fenn’s poem are similar and for Fenn are really easy to pick up on since he wrote it. Since we are reading it without the same insight we just go right past key words as our kids did. It is easy to understand why people can get the first few clues yet go on by the rest.

  44. Arron said: “It’s easy to understand why people can get the first few clues yet go on by the rest.”

    As is too often the case in…life.

    Enjoyed your family Easter story, Aaron.


  45. For those who will attend the fennboree, try futher up the road.
    I did not find the cache.
    BWWH , Santa Fe ski area, 17 MIle Marker. Put in below hoB, Vault toilet at parking lot. 13 MM. Home of Brown yellow and white.
    No place for the meek. Cross the road, difficult to see traffic to the left. Walk to creek and head upstream. Go through culvert, Heavy Loads. Now you are in a small basin. As I have gone in there alone. Now it is up to you, find the Blaze.
    I found a 40 pound piece of quartz.
    All of my nine clues have lead to this area. Easy for FF to do the hide. Park over the culvert and block the view. Wait for mid summer when leaves are out. Then one is almost invisible.

      • All in all, stanzas 2 and 3 together are a surprisingly good “disguised” description of searching in and around a functioning standard-issue flush toilet.

        (And of many dozens of actual outdoor locations in the Rocky Mountains too, of course.)

        (Otherwise we wouldn’t all still be here.)


  46. There are a minimum of nine clues.
    Total of seventeen. Not including the one clue that appears five times.

    • How can you come to that conclusion when we’re told the poem “contains nine clues” ?
      The book doesn’t say; 9 clues more or less, or there’s a minimum of 9 clues…

      • Hi Seeker. You’ve seen where I touched on this topic also.

        Whereas, I think there are eleven clues within the poem. One could add more, if they think “hints” are “clues”.

        If I recall correctly, FF never stated that there are ONLY nine clues, although I do recall him stating, “or there about”….after commenting on if there were nine clues at the start of his poem writing…..or did they change after he was completed.

        The question was posted recently, but I can’t seem to locate it.

        maybe someone else has this quote. I saw where JDA posted a different quote that has FF referencing the nine clues, so that is not the one I am referring to.


        • Tim;

          If you do not like my previous answer, let’s try this one:

          The introductory sentence to the poem in TTOTC says. ” So I wrote a poem containing nine clues that if followed precisely, will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure.”

          He didn’t say “ABOUT” nine clues, or nine clues more or less, he said “nine clues that if followed precisely”

          I am not sure how you can twist this into saying that he didn’t say “Only nine clues”

          You are trying to make the poem fit your solve, not the other way around, making your solve fit the NINE clues in the poem, Just MHO

          • Hi JDA – that is not the quote I was referring to…..but even with that quote…..FF doesn’t say “exactly nine clues”…..just nine clues.

            IMO – you take the literal to be literal.

            I don’t.

            I take what has been literally stated to have a different meaning – FF has done it numerous times within the poem, outside the poem in his interviews, etc.

            Shoot – even FF says he uses words that really don’t mean what people think they do.

            No disrespect – but you have not thought like Forrest if you are still thinking that there are ONLY nine clues within the poem.

            Shoot – I posted that there are eleven…..and more than likely you read that post.

            Show me how my eleven clues are not such.

            Please and thank you.

          • BTW – my solve is not a force fit… flows gently thru the clues…..I didn’t need to force the clues to fit the poem, because I found actual locations that did it for me.

            You are quite wrong about me.

            But good luck to you sir. We each have our own methodology to work.

            Mine worked for me…..yours works for you.

            We will disagree on many things, but our disagreements do not automatically make what we think is wrong…..unless you can prove that I am.

            Right now, I’m only seeing your opinions spoken.

            Thanks for responding an good luck to you.

          • Who knows Tim; maybe one of these days, weeks, or months ahead, we each may be able to “Prove” out theory correct – or not. Until then, best of luck to you in your search. JDA

          • Hi JDA.

            Exactly my point.

            I don’t care who accepts my theory as legit or not. I don’t care.

            And so what if there are more than nine clues within the poem….the clarity of defining what is a clue and what is a hint has a gray area included.

            I managed to solve the poem in eleven clues. “Escobar” did it with 17.

            For all I know you did it with just nine.

            I also was in the camp for “only nine clues” until I never have found where FF said “only nine clues”…and a variation of that statement. Never. Thus, “nine clues” is the “average”/median point in some ways…..or is a “minimum” amount.

            And you are also right – the one with the TC will know how many clues there are…..and we won’t know the answer to whether there are or not until then.

            Back–atcha with luck!

          • JDA,

            My voice doesn’t carry much weight around here, nevertheless, I agree with you 100%.

        • Good grief Charlie Brown…
          So I wrote a poem containing 9 clues that if followed precisely, will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure:

          Does it matter if fenn wrote 200 versions of the poem with a different number of clues? I would think the final draft is the important part that contains “nine clues”

          Or am I reading it all wrong, and fenn only tells 85% of the truth and lies 15%?

          New theory:
          I’m gonna head south of SF. Find the first outhouse and start digging with my backhoe.. it’s the only logical answer.

          • Hi Seeker.

            Suit yourself. But knowing your thinking through your posts, you probably won’t and only jest in saying you will.

            No worries. You disagree with my thinking…..and that is fine.

            Good luck to you.

          • Tim,
            The sentence in the book leading to the poem states “9 clues”
            you’re only argument is fenn didn’t add the word “only”… Yet, you’re argument has no basis of backing information… it’s simply a poke and hope. Have you thought that maybe the reason fenn didn’t say “only” was because, it’s not needed in addition to “containing” ~9 clues?
            If a glass contains 9 parts water… does that say there’s something else in the glass besides water?
            It only says 9 parts/measurement of the glass holds the water… not water and dirt.

            Now, if you think there are hints in the poem and you refer them to be a clue… I can understand that… many people would… fenn calls everything a clue, even the useless clues.

            Just saying it doesn’t make it so either… if you want a “discussion” on the whatIF… you need something other than simple three little letter I.M.O.

            I mean I can argue the the chest could be in a structure because of the add on “not associated with” In this case the chest is really nothing more than a time capsule… holding personal belonging and historical information. So if the chest is within an outhouse, does that structure have any “association” with the chest or the contents?

            More than likely I’d be wrong in this scenario… but I at least attempted an argument to present my case.

          • Hi Seeker….you wrote:

            “The sentence in the book leading to the poem states “9 clues”
            you’re only argument is fenn didn’t add the word “only”… ”

            That isn’t the quote I was talking about either. If I remember correctly, the previous “Nine Clues…..” part that Dal closed out last, before opening this forum, has that quote, because it appears I commented upon it at the start of this forum.

            Anyhow… think words that are not being expressed……that can be essential to the poem and the meanings within the poem, I cannot / I will not disagree with.

            To think words were left out for a specific reason…..well, I will continue to think that this is the case.

            Why you may ask?

            Well the poem dictates it.

            “As I have gone in there alone”

            Clearly, there are words missing that would explain what this statement means. You seem to think that there are not.

            You are wrong. Once again, I could explain this statement to you, but then you would be able to work on a correct solve.

            So I don’t.

            “begin it where warm waters halt AND take it in the canyon down.”

            Another clear indication that there are words missing that describes the locations in the poem.


            to each his/her own……Cheers!

          • Seeker,

            I’m glad you brought that up because I’ve been thinking about what that means myself for a long time.

            What is a structure? Is it manmade? Is a beaver dam a structure? What about an animal den? Is, say a sculpture a structure? Is it based on permanence? Very subjective IMO.

            In the context as you quoted, I assume f meant manmade, but where do we draw the line? If he later added a qualifier, I would really like to see the quote. So say I build a camp fire pit using large boulders. Are campfire pits to be excluded too?

            Finally, and not belabor the point, but what things like junk laying on the ground that at one time was a structure? I can think of hundreds of places where left-overs of days gone by still remain. Metal siding, old parts from boilers, cars, kitchen sinks, bathtubs, you name it, are just laying there on the ground, AND fully capable of concealing the TC.

            They all had structure at one time in their lives and Forrest has dropped, IMO, hints that it could be behind, under, or in something.

            Personally, I am not discounting anything I run across in my search area, I just wanted to suggest to the community to carefully consider what was said.

            Trust me when I say, outhouses are safe as far as “digging” up the TC is concerned, but all bets are off as far as the clues are concerned or I am toast.

            Hope this makes some sense to you guys.

          • You echo many thngs I have said.

            We CANNOT dismiss many things, because they are already stated in a vague manner.

            Look for some place between difficult and impossible.


          • Pinotubacharlie –

            You didn’t ask but I will tell you what I think.
            No structures, nothing made by man at all. Just clues to places in nature. Mountains streams woods. You know. Fenn stuff.

  47. Exactly, just answered that yourself.
    There are nine. No one is lying. There are a total of seventeen.
    When you have the correct solve you will see them all.

    • Hi J.Escobar – welcome to the forum discussion…..glad you are getting involved.

      Although I will not say that you are incorrect with the number of “clues” you seem to have noticed within the poem, but have you clearly defined which are “hints” and which are “clues”?

      Forrest has told us seekers that:
      – a “hint” will describe a clue
      – a “clue” will lead you to the treasure

      I agree that there are at least nine clues in the poem, and hints as well, but I’ll have to disagree with the number of clues you think there are.

      I’m surmising that you may be using “hints” as “clues”, instead of keeping them as just “hints”.

      Moving down that rabbit hole may not get you out.

      Just my opinion……good luck with your solve.

    • Umm, ok. There are 9 clues contained in the poem but, there are a total of 17 but, not including at least one clue that repeats itself 5 times, because that would make 22? and we can’t have 22 because there are only 9 that are 17…
      So the first clue is at first T?
      All the clues add to 17?
      9 = 17? is this some kinda new math?

      LOL… ya got me.. I guess I’ll never know, see them, because you have the correct solve, right?
      Good to know. I can scratch the chase of my honey dew list now.
      What’s next? Ah dang! mow the lawn…

      • common core math…Seeker. Works wonders. Goes well with the six different archaic definitions for certain words too.

  48. My thoughts are that the exact number of clues or hints is relative to the reader. I think, for example, that a line that does not end in punctuation is, in combination with the next line, one clue. If he did say 9 clues “or there about” then I believe he means it is all in how you read it.

    • Aaron,
      Thank you. At least you gave an explanation of your thought process…
      And for discussion purpose { the whole point of the blog } I can see the thought of 9 sentences equating to 9 clues, with more than one piece of important information involved with that single sentence to derive to a single clue.

  49. Hint, clue, clue, hint….. all the same to me.
    If it points me in the right direction I’ll take it.

    I was always told that when someone comes along with a different approach don’t be quick to dismiss it.

    Do you have your solve seeker?

    • J Escobar – We are not trying to dismiss your thought process, we are just asking that you look at what Forrest has said, and then make up your own mind. Who knows, you may be correct in you approach, despite it “Looking” like it is contradictory to what Forrest has said.

      Forrest has indicated something to the effect that a clue will get you closer to the treasure, a hint will get you closer to a clue – or something similar to that. JDA

      • In looking at JCM’s “Chasing Words of Forrest Fenn – by Topic” JCM states that Forrest NEVER said anything similar to what I just posted. re. hints getting you closer to clues… If that is true, I apologize, I do NOT want to mislead anyone. JDA

    • What difference does it make if I have a solve or not? I’m not the one who posted; “When you have the correct solve you will see them all.”

      My “solves” are theories… I have no clue if any of my thoughts are correct, and I never claim them to be either.
      I sure as heck don’t want to join the list of character that do claim they have or state how the correct solve is… That list is long enough, and all over the map.

    • Hi J.Escobar – you had wrote:

      “Do you have your solve seeker?”

      Since there is a poster on the forum named “Seeker”, I am not sure if this is a generic reference to my post or if was directed to “Seeker”.

      If an open question to me….

      Then……yes, I do…..and it didn’t involve “17 clues”….just eleven.

  50. Geez seeker, keep your hair on.

    You seem frustrated? I can give you WWWH if you like?

    • J.

      Are you aware that if you click on the “Reply” button, (like I just did to reply to your post) – you can respond to something that was just said by a particular person, and not align to the left. Following this “Reply” procedure makes it a lot easier to follow. Just in case you did not know.

      • Thx JDA.

        The point I was trying to make, is that whether they are clues or hints it is irrelevant.
        If one is busy thinking about whether its one or the other you’re wasting time.
        When you crack the last clue the entire poem will reveal itself.
        Wont it Mr Fenn

    • Just an explanation, as i asked to start with, how you came to your conclusion~ “There are a minimum of nine clues.
      Total of seventeen.” to fenn’s wording in the book with the poem?

      You came back with ~ “There are nine. No one is lying. There are a total of seventeen.” Followed by “When you have the correct solve you will see them all.”

      Seeing you have the correct solve to know “there are a total of seventeen” referring to the clues in the poem… I thought you should be able to answer that simple question/inquiry, about fenn’s statement in the book.

      But you would rather come back with absurd excuses ~
      “You seem frustrated?”
      and “I can give you WWWH if you like?”
      and “Do you have your solve seeker?”
      To avoid an actual reply … why is that?

      • Ok, I’m playing catch up.

        Nine clues will take you directly to the treasure as is widely stated.
        With nine clues you can find the treasure location.
        Alas, there are more than nine clues/hints.
        If you solve the poem you will see them.
        Lets say for arguments sake that some of Fenns clues could geologically disappear? Wouldn’t it be prudent to have back up clues.? Are you with me?

        • JE ~”Alas, there are more than nine clues/hints.”
          Well, there ya go… you’re counting hints as clues. Could have saves ten posting from the get to if ya just stated that from the start.

          But I like the hypothetical clues as geological disappearance. One aspect would be an ancient glacier, with only the effects, remnants of the glacier’s being there at one time.

          But you added, backup clues. So my thought goes to… are those clues backup hints?
          Example; WWWH the glacier.
          Backup clue or hint {call it what you will};
          the effect of the glacier, now long gone, … the canyon down.

        • JE;

          You pose an interesting point. “Let’s say for arguments sake that some of Fenns clues could geologically disappear?” An interesting possibility. You then ask,”Wouldn’t it be prudent to have back up clues.?” OK, let’s say that wwwh’s geologically disappears. What is your back-up? Where in the poem can we find another wwwh? Or if the “Canyon down geologically disappears, where in the poem can we find another? Not sure that I can find your “Back-ups” – can you explain? JDA

          • WWWH or the canyon aren’t about to disappear, or HOB. The blaze could in theory. Also tarry scant with marvel gaze.
            Brave and in the wood for sure.
            Places could be renamed.
            Maps could go out of circulation
            or be updated.

          • OR how about the names of the places don’t matter. IT’s just the description of the place that matters. You wouldn’t have to know for example that

            WWH is Mammoth hot Springs, just recognize the area on the map regardless of the name.

          • EJ;

            You are stating as fact, things that are your opinion. If it is an opinion, you should so state. If the blaze, tarry scant or “In the wood” could geologically disappear, why not wwwh, canyon down or hoB? For me, and that is just my opinion, your argument has as many holes as a sieve – sorry. JDA

          • JE;

            Just for the sake of argument though, since you say that the Blaze, hoB and “In the wood” CAN geologically disappear – where in the poem are THEIR back-ups?

            Just curious – JDA

          • This Q&A from Jenny’s MW:
            MysteriousWritings Question posted 6/25/2014:
            Did the same 9 clues exist when you were a kid and to your estimation will they still exist in 100 years and 1000 years?
            Thanks ~Ron
            “Thanks Ron, thoughtful questions
            The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years but the geography probably will change before we reach the next millennia. The Rocky mountains are still moving and associated physical changes will surely have an impact. If you are in the year 3,009 it will be more difficult for you to find the treasure.f”

            IMO, one can infer from F’s answer that it IS possible (likely?) one or more clues can disappear, so JE’s assertion that some “clues could geologically disappear” is, IMO, perfectly viable. However, based again on F’s answer above, should there be cataclysmic changes (or, as suggested, name changes) that obliterate one or some of the poem’s clues, F’s answer leads me to believe that searchers will be left with fewer clues to solve the poem, and this will lead to a greater degree of difficulty as the path to the TC (as indicated by the poem) will then contain gaps. As such, I find it difficult to believe there are backup clues or hints in the poem.

            FWIW, just an opinion.

          • My interpretation is that he was referring to the next generation or two. Who the heck knows what this planet is going to look like even a 100 years from now.

          • Now I see it! It’s sold on Amazon. They sell a two cylinder flask disguised as binoculars! His partner didn’t know he had it. But f saw it. The treasure site is under electronic surveillance. It’s linked to the web. During this year’s Masters golf tournament f ran through the camera’s still shots. He saw it all. This hiccup won’t stop Snead from winning. He is way in front of the field. He always was. These guys are good.

  51. jezz- u guys- there are probably 50+ clues in the poem, maybe 100. f said sounds like 3 or 4 in one sentence, should tell you that there are quite a few, as does “there are a few words in my poem that are not helpful”.
    The only logical (seeker) explanation is that the nine sentences(the entire poem) are the nine clues. This is not that complicated-
    Why are u arguing, and how long have you studied the poem?
    my opinion-

    • It sounds like to me you guys are arguing over whether a word, a sentence, or line makes up one clue. I believe it is all in how you look at it. And take it in the canyon down could be 3 clues in one persons mind or 1 clue in another’s. Without knowing what this line means for sure it is hard for anyone to say. The way I read it “Begin it where warm waters halt And take it in the canyon down” is one clue.

  52. Stupid me.
    I was thinking the 9 clues are places or things at places to be married to a map.

    • Hi JakeFaulker.

      First off, you are not stupid….even if you just jest… I really think that anyone willing to take on this challenge needs to have some smarts about them, but far from “stupid”.


      Not necessarily, wilderness or camping smarts, as those are just “add-ons” to what the poem was intended to do for us seekers, but more general knowledge…of a lot of things. Like Forrest.

      The poem, as a whole, tells a story that we need to figure out.

      Everything has a process. Each process can be analyzed to the most simplest form for simplicity and flow. The poem is no different.

    • Yep, me and you are just too dumb to look for the word Brown on the map. I guess we can read about it when one of these smart fellows retrieves the TC.

  53. This page is now closed to new comments. To continue the conversation please head to the latest Nine Clues page.

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