Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Twenty Six


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632 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Twenty Six

  1. Thanks Forrest and Dal for all that you do. I think this is the year!

  2. Come on Fennboree – I will have to wait until then – If I can make it then. JDA

    • ~News of this $3 million bounty slowly broke out, sparking a wild treasure hunt with people far and wide landing in New Mexico to search for gold.

      I guess size matters, ken… I wondering what happen to CO, MT, WY… or is this about searchers only gazing in NM?

      • I am already confused enough Seeker…haha…apparently the other three states are not within the budget.

    • Perhaps depends on your point of view or what state of mind you are in?

      • Hello again Don Q ! This Chase is a great place to exercise the mind…no matter the state it is in, ha.

      • The Quest for sanity and making all things right in the world is a scenario that probably is not gonna pan out looking for Fenn’s Treasure…Man of La Mancha.

  3. I was following the thread on the now closed Odds and Ends…discussion about the necessity of knowledge of history and was truly interested in the opposing interpretations of Fenn’s statements. This is a great example of how difficult it is to keep the facts straight over an extended period of time. I see how a taped or video interview can lead to confusion because of the lack of punctuation in a sentence given as a statement. A written statement can mean more than one thing if punctuation is in error.

    • I’m finding the opposite to be be true…. Time and a more clear understanding are shedding light his older statements, which have typically been more vague.

      His clues have been surprisingly consistent over the years…which inspires confidence. But I have found a few spots where he hasn’t been entirely honest, or at the least somewhat elusive. It’s all very forgivable and understandable.

    • ken – what ‘facts’?!

      ( ..or are you jus bein a pear? ..again)

      • you know…the ones that folks make up and wish they were real. No… the thread was about Fenn comments and how folks interpret them so differently. Fenn’s statements and comments are the only facts in relation to the Chase.
        Just so you know…I’m part ugly fruit and proud of it.

      • oh.. you mean ‘those’ facts – why didn’t ya jus say so!

        prickly maybe, but def not ‘ugly’ mate ..otherwise Barbie would never have married ya, right? – fact! πŸ™‚

        • [note to self: don’t even ask ken what ‘benefits’ means!..]

          ken – i’m not even gunna ask!

          (tsk tsk – shakes head ..albeit, secretly possessing a mild sense of curiosity πŸ™‚ )

          • She has the best collection of toys and accessories of any doll ever…but really I married her for her lasting looks and her ageless figure. Besides…her mom…Ruth Handler adored me. Okay…nuff outa me.

          • CH, I think you should write a book/movie script. All of the characters have already been created, you just have to choose who to include – a real life Ken and Barbie, A real Indiana Jones, Iron Man, a real CH, so many more, and especially FF, etc. and make it part comedy (It’s a mad, mad mad, mad world) and part mystery (Clue game).. All the characters are on this forum already, the story line has already been created. All we need is a good/witty writer -you. Oh, and of course we still need a story ending – the treasure and how the poem was solved and the treasure was found. The people who the characters represent in the story in could get some money (% of profits?) even if they aren’t the finders of the treasure. A kind of second place prize. It could include Randy as a memorial too. – Just my mind wandering after enjoying yours and Ken’s conversation.

          • Wow JBL, i love that you’re such a hopeful and loyal romantic πŸ™‚
            (are you married btw? ..jus asking.. )

            but i’ll only write said script on one strict condition – that Chewbacca stars in the leading role, which (coincidently) i have already compiled a rough list of likely candidates, as follows:

            randawg – no, too witty for a Wookie
            Focused – no, too nice
            pdenver – na, too wise
            SL – no, too good at baking pies
            JDA – no, not grumpy enough
            Goofy – no way! (FAR too grumpy!)
            Dal – nope, def not hairy enough
            Jake – …….

            (we have a winner JBL πŸ™‚ ..but sshhh)

          • Shhhh,
            Due to my current obligations with Sesame Street, I cannot be involved in any other contracts, otherwise I get canned.

          • I envision a cross between a Twilight Zone episode…and Doonesbury strip. I’m gonna go give the electric chair a whirl right now…

          • well, thanks a million for your generously offered opinion, mr. ’nuff outa me’ sir.

            ( ..btw, don’t forget to wet ya sponges, before satting upon said chair)

            (‘safety first’ after all πŸ™‚ )

          • Bwahahaha! I won’t give away your casting secrets!

            Yes, I am very happily married, but you can come to visit to see the chest if I get to be the dark horse winner of this race! Today is a day for another race to shine! The Kentucky Derby-which is run in my home town! My favorite week of the year – a week long celebration for a 2 minute race. Go Louisville! (Pronounced – Loo-a-vul ).

          • oh really? …ummm,,, (awkward)

            ( but i’m honestly glad to hear ya happily married JBL, and i just suddenly remembered too, that i might probably be happily married also ,,to Jonsey1)

            ( ..although, she adamantly refuses to never talk to me ever, admittedly πŸ™ )

            ( ..so it MUST be true πŸ™‚ )

          • Married to a wickedly sharp, pretty blond – nice choice, and another good casting call. I won’t tell her that I admire your wit. She might get jealous.

    • ken, this is exactly why Monty Python’s “Life of Brian” is my second favorite Chase-related movie.

      “What did he say?”
      “I think it was ‘blessed are the cheesemakers.'”

      . . . et multi cetera


      • I love British humor too. I’m starting to think it might be the accent. Or, maybe I like all humor and just love to laugh!

      • absolutely hilarious stuff ! This Chase has the full spectrum of characters to cast any number of seriously funny skits about Chasing through the mountains…on a quest to find the Holy Grail.
        My sanity is measured by the cartoons in my head….

    • with puncturtion, “Let’s eat, Granma!”
      without punctuation, “Let’s eat Grandma!”

      • Full disclosure, so does spelling. “gramma” should have been “grandma” in both sentences. I think I need a larger font and an order of treasure to fix my shortcomings.

  4. Seeker, to help your understand my earlier posts here’s an example. Say you ask your astronomy professor if there is any level of studying a textbook about Mars that is required to get a 100% on your final exam. Your professor replies, No Seeker, the only requirement is that you answer every question correct. But a comprehensive knowledge of the solar system may help.

    This means that studying a book on Mars can help. The only requirement to getting a 100% on your test is getting 100% on your test.

    Another way to look at it…when I said there’s two parts to the question you didn’t understand what I meant. Try and answer this question as if you’ve never heard one similar: Is there any level of knowledge of US history that is required? You can’t answer that question because not enough information was given to tell you required to do what. You need the latter part of the question to be able to tie the requirement to something. In this case, it’s tied to properly interpreting the clues in f’s poem.

    • I get what your saying Fun.
      But you added 100% to your scenario. That makes a big difference.

      The fact that the question stated “Any Level” involves; all, some, a lot, a little, part of, the whole kit and caboodle etc. that requirement and knowledge of the subject.

      The requirement seems to fall under geography might be helpful. But not “US” history… that doesn’t rule out all history.

      History is mainly about human affair and / or events. Which as far as I can see is still on the table. The point I’m making is US affairs doesn’t seem to apply.

      Fenn could have stated… *the only requirement is to solve the clues,* right? Yet, he started with No to the answer and ended with what might help as a requirement.

      I could reverse this and say… *Geography might help, but the only requirement is to solve the clues* Would that remove geography altogether, because the second part stated * “the only requirements” are to solve the clues*?

      Sorry, In this case… and of course, my opinion… No means Nope to “US” history. And I’ll add a second thought as to fenn’s comment; he could have written the poem before he hid the chest, but he didn’t.
      Could this writing of the poem be solvable 100 years ago or even a 1000?

      • Nope you still missed it, Seeker. The 100% in my scenario is tied to the part of the question that is about the final exam, or in the case of the Chase finding the tc. You have to figure out all the clues, or 100%. You’re still trying to tie the 100% to Mars and the level of things like US history. So my example is correct in its correlation to the US history question as its format is the same as the question asked to f.

        • Fun your final exam has a subject matter added to the scenario…

          What we don’t have is the luxury to knowing what the whole subject matter pertains to. { the poem }.

          We only know of clues and that all the information needed to find the chest is in the poem… we also have GE “and / or” a good map for tools { which in my opinion states GE is a good map } { the more detailed a map the better }.
          And we have geography might help… all things fenn have given us as usable tools… I have to wonder why he wouldn’t just say… Sure Steve, history might help.
          I mean, so far he as told us what is good/usable and where not to look… why not just say, Yep check out the history of the USA. If involved.

          • It’s rather simple, Seeker. You said my 100% was wrong because it was tied to levels. And that’s simply wrong. I used the word “level” to equate to the word “level”. Doesn’t get any more uncomplicated than that.

            I don’t know what you mean that my scenario has an added subject matter to it. Care to elaborate…it would be nice to point out what you mean.

          • You’re adding in all kinds of scenarios into the original question asked. We don’t have the luxury of doing that. We also can’t say why didn’t f just say…

          • Sorry, I see you explained your added scenario line of thinking.

            We don’t need to know what the whole subject matter is. All we have is f answered what is required to get 100% on the final exam, also known as retrieving the tc.

          • The subject matter is astronomy you presented…

            We only know of 9 clues and not much more. So the question Steve asked was if any level of “US” history…
            But we don’t know if the poem’s clues even relates to history, or fenn’s personal life, or fishing or hunting or buffalo roping or little old ladies with an attitude or aviation or celebrities or billiards or art or Indians, and on and on.

            And that was my point is the last comment… we don’t have a subject matter…{ about as close to a subject that I can say would be exploring the unknowns } he has told us geography might help… GE…

            If US history might help, it wouldn’t be a big clue in my mind to hand out… that’s about 240 years of research, right? Even if it was only a small part {level} of the poem or the whole poem.

            I don’t think any real history is needed. I think the references are all natural landscape and phrases the help with understanding the landscape.

          • Good discussion, Seeker. I really appreciate it.

            I don’t know why f answered the question the way he did but I bet he’s pretty pleased with how he did, so I don’t question it. My example was exact to the original question:

            Astronomy professor= F

            Level= Level

            Textbook of Mars= U.S. history

            Required= Required

            100% on your exam= Finding the tc

            Comprehensive knowledge of the solar system= Comprehensive knowledge of geography.

          • Fun,
            Always interesting to have different points of view. My debate is just that… it help keep the brain cells firing.

            I do get your point as to, fenn might be saying ~ US history or not, Steve, the only thing you really need to worry about/ wonder about, are the clues…

            My real debate here is, we can’t just use a single ATF comment and run with it. Personally, I need to keep in mind all of fenn’s comments as an overall guide to what a single comment might be saying.

            I just wish fenn would expand on the first four clues comment… I’d like to know if that / those searcher{s} were on site or were those clues just mentioned / read about.

            It seems now that the clues can be deciphered from home… but it’s still mind boggling that when on site searchers are overlooking something… because they don’t seem to know they have they clues… even if they mention them.

            This gives me pause to think the clues are so closely related, and not so much points of travel, that we {botg searchers} don’t see them, or understand them for what they are.

            Anyways… thanks for the chat.

          • It’s seems to me that Fenn never really explained if that one person really got all 4 clues down. Didn’t he say, “I think there might have been up to 4 clues?” There’s no meat there, and you really don’t know what he means by that, because he just says it in passing. He doesn’t talk about it like the 200/500 which has me confused too, like were they there, or is this all email stuff, and no BOTG. I think that some searchers go into the wilderness thinking that they are going to find Jack-in-the-Boxes if they hit the right places, all the clues will all pop up once they get to their spots. All I can say is that you better have a 10 by 10 by 5 place to head to before hand before heading out your front door, if not, have a nice vacation. IMHO

  5. I have a “what if” relevant to searching for the treasure that fits “odds and ends” I think. I’m sure more than a few of us fly out to search… What if one of that group finds the treasure? Has anyone researched, assessed, or otherwise understood the risks of trying to return home with this treasure in carry on bag(s)? Please lend your knowledge and/or common sense if I am missing that. Thanks!

    • If it were me, and I found it, I probably rented a car at the destination. I would drive to the place I needed to turn it in – rent another vehicle, and drive HOME with a smile on my face all the way. JDA

      • Agreed, foregoing the return flight and making the drive makes the most sense.

    • I might be searching soon, so it would be a land border crossing for me since I live in Canada. from what little I found on it; if I were to be in possession of it I am supposed to claim it. Or I don’t and they don’t search my vehicle and its all good lol . Having documentation of ownership is all good but it is how the person has it -paid for it or was given it. It is gray in policy from what I could find. Least of my thought right now on that possibility lol. I hope I will need to do more research soon πŸ™‚

      • It is a quandary for us Canucks, isn’t it? I was told to simply claim it at the border if I found it. Bring the book with you that contains the poem (with the title transfer) and a picture of the actual chest at the minimum. And cross late at night so you don’t have to stand in line too long carrying 42 lbs. of “whatcha got there”? questions from curious onlookers.

        • Yes, it is difficult for us Canadians to find out exactly what could or would be the scenario. I don’t have the book or map. I am driving from Alberta entering from Montana. Precious metals are not currency but an item. So, it is gray. I think that ownership documentation is really all that is needed. Not a gift nor a purchased item.

        • Or you can contact a relative and work with them until you find out the way to bring it across the border in the most easiest manner.

          FF did say it will be interesting to know how the finder handles the law.

          Good luck to you.

      • I hope to be searching this summer-Boots on the ground.I am from Canada as well B.C. Getting it across the border might be easier than you think,after some research I’ve done-I will E-mail you this if you want. Wish you well. Rick

      • You could contact a border official prior to your search and ask him or her about protocol in a matter of such. Familiarize them with the search, establish a relationship of sorts with them. Get on a first name basis with the top rung. Couldnt hurt and if you had to drop a name…

        • Canadian officials are notoriously officious. I doubt getting to know one on a first name basis or name-dropping will buy us anything but closer inspection. And when I say closer, what I really mean is up close and personal. I must be on some kind of list *shrugs*

    • Save yourself the trouble. Take a bunch of photos of the treasure. Drive to the nearest bank with safe deposit boxes big enough to hold the box. Give your key to the banker to hold in escrow. Auction the entire cache (keeping a couple of mementos for yourself) on eBay with a reserve of $1 million, with directions to the winner to show up at the bank with a cashier’s check for the winning amount.


      • Thanks Toby for the Idea. I would just bring it to Canada. US banks are not as stable as Canadian banks. Right now I am just going to look for the TC . Never thought I would actually go and search. I just made up my mind up officially a couple days ago. Never ending thoughts of should I or shouldn’t I.

      • I’m not so sure I would do it that way, for a couple of reasons…..
        Income in excess of $400.00, after expenses of the hobby, and this is a hobby, they will…not only charge you for the suction, but also report the sale to the government, this you would be paying a hefty tax in the income.

        If I were you, I’d look into the law a little bit deeper.

        Tax lawyer can give you free advice over the phone.

        Good luck.

        • Ya, there are many options to consider and do. Giving FF his bracelet back and there will be many appropriate advisors to consult with. Not a concern really. Have to find the chest first. A consultant can easily solve a financial riddle.lol. IMO.

        • Good advice, Tim, but ahead of you by about four years. I discussed with three tax attorneys in Washington, one of whom did my taxes every year from 1990 to 2010 when I retired. I have a spreadsheet with the exact unearned income tax calculation on amounts ranging from $1 to $10 million. I’ll be happy to pay it – the price for living a life unencumbered by the chest. The bank fees are eminently tolerable.

          What else?


          • I hear ya T.

            I also have a plan for the “trove”.

            I think I will add some enjoyment to others and take it on tour for all to see what they were looking for.

            I’ll get to the government , and they too will get their share…….when I sell it off, but not until then…..*smiles*……

            Ok….I will keep a few artifacts for my own collection of pre-Columbian art.


    • I don’t fly (to search) but if I did I’d get a rental or a buy a new truck. If you have to fly maybe charter a private plane?

  6. If I found it, I think I’d rent a car and drive to Fenn’s house. . …. or maybe go to the nearest big bank in a big town and open a checking account and a safety deposit box

    • I think if I found it, I’d hyperventilate, pass out, and find myself in an ambulance while clutching the chest, saying “I did it!” πŸ™‚

      • [note to self: send pdenver a paper bag, some smelling salts ..and a fake I.D, just in case] πŸ™‚

      • I think I would fly me , pdenver, jdiggins, JDA to New Zealand to visit our good buddy curious hobbit….. and have him grill us up something good….. whatcha think ?

        See ya πŸ™‚

      • Focused – the only ‘grilling’ going on will be me grilling you about where exactly you found that darn chest!

        but yes, def a free burger and cold beer on the beach for all Hobbit-land visitors …maybe even two beers πŸ™‚

        • It’s a deal curious hobbit…. now I just gotta find the darn thing… my mouth is watering just thinking about it… hummm… pdenver..any ideas ?

          See ya

          • Pdenver, I can tell your lips are sealed…. but hey, if you need help carrying the chest just let me know k … anything for a friend. πŸ™‚

            See ya night………

          • I may not be able to solve the poem correctly, but I am learning more about myself and what I am truly capable of doing.

            Thank you, Mr. Fenn.

    • I’m from the Cincinnati area, but if I was from outside the US and found the TC I’d do the safety deposit boxes (booty divided between 2 or 3 banks) and get a good attorney. But no matter what I’d hire a promotional agent to get the publicity machine working (talk shows, TV/movie options, print stories, etc) as there is much “treasure” to be harvested from those avenues as well. The story of how the correct solve was arrived at and retrieving the TC will play well and for quite a while, IMO.

      • Hi hear you loud and clear “Blue”.

        Order of business……
        – find TC
        – inventory TC
        – lay low for about 6 months with TC
        – publicity machine activated
        – tour with TC around country for 6 months
        – live in the luxury of life!


      • I’d give it to my wife. She is a very smart person, and never stops me from doing anything she tells me to do.
        Or I’d hire a couple of illegal aliens to fly it to my home on their space craft.

  7. If I found it, I would contact Mr. Fenn to arrange returning the bracelet to him. I don’t have a plan on how to get the rest of it home and stashed away safely. I will worry about that when I come up with a confident solution.

  8. If I found it I’d manage to somehow mess it all up before I even laid hands on it. Yeah, I’m that good. hypothetically.

  9. Greetings all! Goofy check out the ‘ISPN’ where I’m checking in! Hoping to get some LGFI insights, lol! -Best, Cholly Q

    • Dang Cholly, if you’re not using a VPN you are a long way from home. Can’t wait to hear the solution that got you there. πŸ™‚

      • Thought you’d get a kick out of where I am, add to your stats. Hoping for some lucid dreams to shed some light on a solution. Over here to renew my sons passport and start some green card renewal procedures for wife and step daughter, it’s extremely hot here, not the best time if the year to be here but I had the chance to get away! Missing the blog and the chase friends! -Cholly

  10. Checking in.

    What would I do once I found it? Pack it out as quickly as possible.

    I’m probably not alone in this thought, but if I am the first one at the spot, I am planning on leaving a momento of my own and a note letting subsequent finders of the hidey spot that I was there first on such and such a date at this time, so that they could know how far behind they were from the original find. Hopefully, it would be weeks or months or years, after the world knew it had been found, so the sting would not be so sharp.

    I know I wouldn’t want to know I missed it by a day ot two – that would be hard. But finding the hidey spot, even after Indulgence is out of the wood, could be a fun endeavor.

    Once I got it home, I too, would secure it in multiple safe deposit boxes for safety’s sake. Then start writing my memoirs and gearing up the talk shows and doing a bit of touring.

    • In deference to the Fred C Dobbs jinx, we deliberately don’t talk about it much.

      But I do know that my brother’s strong inclination is to black-ops it – extract it, break it down, pack it out.

      My own inclination would be to treat it as an archaeological dig (circumstances and location permitting). Slow, relaxed. Commune with it for three days before touching a thing. The whole artifact, as intact as possible, would be so much more than the sum of its parts.


      • LOL

        I’ve done some strange things in preparatory fashion for when I find the TC.

        One strange thing I have done si gather up as many “Crown Royal” felt bags to use after i find the TC…..I guess I think I will keep the contents from getting scratched.

        No I don’t drink Crown Royal…..but I have…..*smiles*…..most are from friends and ones I’ve had for many years.

        Three people involved?
        One to pack-out the chest.
        One to pack out the gold.
        One to pack out the gems and remaining items.

        Good luck to all.

        • I take my backpack with me when searching… containing a tent, some food, a sleeping bag, foam pad and stove… plenty of room remains to comfortable take the chest with me once I find it…

    • I’m with you, Swwot: if I find it first, I’ll leave behind a copy of the poem and map, the date and time of the find, a congratulations to the second finder, a contact e-mail, and (most importantly to the 2nd finder) a not-insignificant second treasure. Might even toss in a meteorite or two to add my little signature to the cache.

      One of my motivations for leaving a prize for the second finder would be to have an excuse for not revealing my solution immediately. I’d certainly let Forrest know and return his bracelet immediately, but I’ve come to the conclusion that a public statement about how it was solved would make for a lot of angry people. If I had the correct solution and someone happened to beat me to the spot by days or weeks, I’d sure prefer the opportunity to take some satisfaction in knowing (and proving) that I had solved the poem on my own. By announcing that the chest had been found, but not where or how, it would give everyone (who wanted to) a chance to lay their cards on the table.

      So, if I’m first at Indulgence, there will be a second place prize and grace period for people to prove they solved it. I’d maybe give it a calendar year from the date of the find. Or maybe other searchers have some better ideas?

  11. I know that Forrest has said “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem…”.

    Does anybody know if the question has been asked of Forrest whether or not knowing about his life, adventures, business etc. would aid in solving the clues?

    So many of you have mentioned trying to “get into his head” and think like Forrest. I think that is crucial, but how crucial?

    • Davzona. IMO . All the information is in the poem. Reading his books, GE and some knowledge of geography ect. I do believe what we call a persons ‘profile’ will help better understand the writer of clues. This chase can be likened to an investigation IMO. Understanding the person helps develop a motif behind the style of writing which can assist in meanings. IMO

    • He has said no special knowledge is required so I’m not trying to “get in his head”. IMO it’s more important to figure out the poem. Mr Fenn’s life, adventures, etc… are so varied and diverse that it just opens up seemingly infinite possibilities.

    • It’s not crucial to a correct solve, but greatly confirms that the
      solve is correct. Just like the (few) hints in TTOTC and TFTW.
      Good luck to all searchers.

  12. After dissecting the dialogue above between Seeker and Fundamental above, regarding the History/Geography question in f’s message I could not stop thinking about what was said in the Key Word thread; Seeker had commented on the thought of my topic “Layers”. As in the words in “little girl” in India who was correct and the term right came to mind, she could be correct and discover the first two clues, but not RIGHT, as f’s mentioned searchers who solved the first two clues and did not get the next seven?

    Seeker mentioned an architectural term and It seemed that if you look at this poem through the eyes of a little girl from India, geography would help, and if you were looking at the poem from a cartagropher’s point of view you might find some readable geography, from the Architect’s point, and Archeoligist stance…etc

    Which is correct and which is right? Subtle hints, try those perspectives on WWWH, first layer known by little girl from India; 32 degrees, Cartographer; 32 degrees, Architect; 32 degrees. Try it on canyon down.

    Historian; non starter, what layers are hints that relate? If we trust ff to give a hint we can take away, we must use his frame of reference. Capiche?

    Tom T TTTTTT half tract, track, trac

    • If I understand you right, you’re suggesting that ff is a Scottish Rite Freemason?

      (32Β° = Master of the Royal Secret)


      • J A Kraven, in a nutshell ff has never IMO related to Scottish Rites, Religion (except that his church is in the mountains) and he is obviously a spiritual person.

        He was probably raised a Baptist because his father
        Who I researched a lot, had the largest funeral at a certain Baptist Church in Temple, TX.

        Masons are like Native Americans and do not share secrets AKA rituals, meaning legends and Rites especially rites of Passage.

        f said it would be difficult to solve but not impossible and if 32 degrees is WWWH and that could be a reference to Architecture/ Mason’ DEGREE would be another LAYER in the puzzle we call THE POEM.

        Tom Terrific

        • …Why?….One might ask…,..read on…..

          Its religious realization is the durable foundation of the true Empire and the true Priesthood that rule in the realm of human intellect:
          – Fenn create a world of adventure

          its philosophical realization is the establishment of an absolute Doctrine, known in all times as the “HOLY Doctrine,”
          p. 841
          and of which PLUTARCH, in the Treatise “de Iside et Osiride,” speaks at large but mysteriously; and of a Hierarchical instruction to secure the uninterrupted succession of Adepts among the Initiates:
          – his universe revolves around a poem that requires tbought, imagination, the Earth, and someone to combine them all into a “philosophical” yet “adventurous and BOLD” application of such philosophy.

          its physical realization is the discovery and application, in the Microcosm, or Little World, of the creative law that incessantly peoples the great Universe.
          – his universe has thousands of people’s and participants….and those who choose to embark upon that journey and results within finding the solution to his world, will bring additional wonders to that “chosen one”.

          *hug for Jake*

          Jake, one must step outside of the box in order to see what is inside the box……..completely.

          • Tim…I have followed your posts with great interest over these last few months. I chimed in only briefly back in the winter months…but only to wish you the best. This still holds true…I wish you a happy journey when you decide to pull the trigger.

          • I hope you found something to be of help in your search. And thanks for the kind words…..but like I’ve said.,,,in just a guy on a mission…..to solve a solvable puzzle.

            Fenn said we could…..it just takes the right person to do so.

            Try putting yourself in that space between difficult and not impossible. That is where you need to be to even get the chance to succeed. It is just another thing FF has told us that requires a correct solve to be had.

            Many can’t find a simple way to do that. That is how I have seen others apply themselves the task set before us to be.

            Cheers and thanks.

            Good luck to you.

          • Tim…like I said…good luck…I wasn’t looking for advice or agreeing with anything you said or have said.
            On a side note…have you looked ahead and beyond yet? At your solve that is…you know, if it doesn’t pan out the way you expect. Not picking…just curious is all.

          • “have you looked ahead and beyond yet? ”

            On different things, yes. I always Try to have some idea on what tomorrow will bring.

            Good luck to you as well.

          • Tim: “Jake, one must step outside of the box in order to see what is inside the box……..completely.”

            F says to get back in the box & you say step outside the box.
            Who do you think I am going to listen to?

            Your Led Zeppelin in just that.

          • The title Master of the Royal Secret is used only by the Southern jurisdiction. I am more familiar with the Northern jurisdiction and was not aware that the Southern jurisdiction used a different title.

        • Tim ~”– his universe revolves around a poem that requires tbought, imagination, the Earth, and someone to combine them all into a β€œphilosophical” yet β€œadventurous and BOLD” application of such philosophy.”

          Fenn ~”All I know are the facts, if you want the truth go next door to the psychology department.f ”

          Here’s a question I repeatedly ask myself when thinking about this challenge, Tim.
          Does the solve answer the question ~ “What took me so long?”

          Just like others, I can see what I hope might be hints on every page of the book. Make a solution fit almost every corner of the RM’s. Chew on the bone fenn has throw out till there the size of a toothpick, even attempted the ‘kitchen sink’ solves that everything and anything is needed { I pulled the plug on that approach long ago }… but, what I’m really looking for something to give that question a reasonable answer. And it should be recognizable to almost all, in the challenge.
          Does yours?

          • The “what took me so long?” question is a really good litmus test, but passing it will depend on what it is being applied to. My “solve” is simple; very “under your nose” simple at that, and so could pass the litmus test for simplicity. Another solve could be based on anagrams, and so a litmus test for anagrams would also work. I guess I’m saying that a single comment made by Mr. Fenn shouldn’t be used to assess whether a solve is valid or not – all his comments have to be considered in their entirety.

          • Where have I said it was? I haven’t.

            I have said that it was built on many levels of thought, structured into one cohesive thought….
            – Macro
            – Micro
            – Simplicity
            – difficulty level
            – wonder
            – out of the box thinking
            – in the box thinking
            – his whole life
            – his personal adventures
            – geology
            – topography
            – mapology
            – the esoteric
            – the mind
            – the way others perceive things

            I can add more if you would like?

            Yes “nmc”….many levels….do you really think he took 10 years to create something that would be “easy” if you don’t include all the possibilities that exist??

            Clearly he hadn’t.

            Good luck sir…great point.

          • Hi Seeker….I too have thought of the question….

            “What took me so long?”

            ….many times.

            If you take a textual criticism look at the way he worded it and then spoke it…..the phrase, even he, seems to be telling us, “it really isn’t that hard, once you have figured it out.”
            For my solve, IMO – it does reach to that level of thinking. It is quite simple, once you see the where, what, how, & when questions are applied. All of these questions are subjective and really can be tv’s in many ways, but if they were combined accurately, it can/will result in only one solution that has no variables attached, will also enable a double check with another parts of the solution,….and to be frank, should lead you to the correct answer to the situation.

            Why not apply these principals to the poem?….before you go anywhere?

            I don’t know that answer, because I’ve made an attempt into the wild, and have only improved upon my initial solve, because I was partcipating with BOTG.

            I do encourage others doing these steps, like you have seen to have done…..but don’t know all the reasons on why they don’t.

            Cheers…great thinking outside the box.

          • nmc,
            Absolutely. There needs to be an overall concept that most will see, beyond any reasonable doubt.

            Yet, not All will agree, no matter what.
            Some have left the chase because they thought fenn was lying wwh is not a dam… some today still think it is by calling it {a dam} something else.
            LOL, a few keep saying this is a hoax, but there still searching… Ya can’t fix stupid.

            There should be little doubt in the minds of most searchers at that point. That is one of the reasons I post thoughts to the masses… feed back of what seems logical vs. mystical.

            Fenn is certainty correct in his observation.. the more time goes on the more magical the thought process turns into.

          • If we all agreed, this would be one BORING blog….and we would all overwhelm on tiny spot. I hope someone finds it in my lifetime because I am one day closer to being the oldest person in the world…..

          • Bob,
            You are a wise man.
            One day closer & one day wiser.
            That’s all we can ask for.

  13. Charlie, you wrote the following on the previous Odds and Ends thread/page: “Up and leaving his car, riding a horse, at 5:30a.m. Arrives at his area at about 7:00, 5 miles by horse. He stages area a bit and leaves at 8:30a.m. Arrives back at his car, gets some more things, heads back out at around 10:00a.m. Arrives at his area again at 11:30a.m. Finishes up and leaves at 1:00p.m. Arriving at his car at 2:30p.m. Total round trip = 20 miles, doable easy by horse. He made two trips, and was done in one of those trips AFTER NOON. Not one afternoon, but one trip AFTER NOON. Very doable, shows long distance, like Jake has said. This keeps open the possibility of:
    1. Walking long distances( like what he has said you need to do)
    2. A full day of activity, and not one AFTERNOON.
    3. Do you really think f gets up late? He has even said he gets up early, why wait to take the chest in the AFTERNOON, when you are up at sunrise? Leaving AFTER NOON, shortens his day out in the woods.
    4. I’m not questioning it, I’m informing that there is other ways to look at it. Instead of the one, illogical way, you are looking at it. Really, two trips in one AFTERNOON? Ask yourself, is that really Forrest? Rush to complete in one AFTERNOON? Or enjoy the day out in the woods?”

    Not likely, because in my opinion, I think Mr. Fenn was trying to be “stealthy and in the wide open” at the same time. While he didn’t want anyone to know that he had slipped out for an afternoon stroll in the wood, he also didn’t want anyone that he might meet in the wood would think anything more than seeing an older gentleman out for a stroll.

    Trying to put myself in his shoes, I can easily see Mr. Fenn taking a day trip someplace “to pick something up”. He heads to that destination, picks up that item, and then continues on his errands – that is, stashing Indulgence and its contents. He then gets back to where he is staying in plenty of time for the evening meal, and no one is the wiser for what has just happened – partly/mostly because he had what he went for when he left in the morning. (My guess is that Mr. Fenn is adept at conversation and it is not unlike him to while away an hour or more jawing with someone along a particular line of thought, and then making it home in time for supper.)

    I’d almost wager that Mr. Fenn knew when to be on the trails so that no one else was around, so he wouldn’t be giving any clues to where he was that anyone could recollect at a later date – after announcing that the chase was on. Everyone wants to get out early into the woods in the morning, which is exactly why he went in the middle of the day – he didn’t want to be seen. And if he was, nobody would think that he was more than out for an afternoon stroll.

    Yes, it seems he thought of everything – or at least what I would have done in his shoes.

    • Yes swwot, I totally agree. I was throwing an example out, but with little thought. Up in the morning before people. An old guy riding a horse in horse country, not out of place. Back and done for evening meal, wherever he was staying. Just an ol’ guy out for a ride. I disagree on the stroll because of the weight issue. But stealthy, out-in-the-open way, I agree.

      If we go with the “two trips” in one afternoon thought, then he most likely may be spotted going one place and then going right back out to that place. If we give him the morning, and he finishes on the one trip that was after noon, then we open up a more logical way of doing it.

      To think f, a morning guy, did everything of hiding the chest after 12:00pm, just doesn’t sit well. Especially if we are suppose to walk a long distance. The box and all his gear would be heavy, two trips split up or not. I would also think f didn’t make it too hard on himself.

      The thing is, f saying that he won’t say when he hid the chest, to big of a clue, means something. Planning, knowledge of area, like you said. Either unfair because family and friends may be able to pin point his whereabouts, or, something with the date and a possible reference in the solve. Example: if the number 33 was important in my solve, and he came out and said he hid the chest on his b-day, 08/22/2007, knowing what happened, I would know that I am right about certain things that 33 pertained to. (Texas Rangers beat the Baltimore Orioles 30-3 on that date) and thus he would be giving a clue to just me. Or whoever else that has roughly the same thing. Knowing weekend or weekday is a concern to address. Like you said, less people the better. After noon just promotes more possible eyes. Going back and forth. I don’t think it was a big issue, remember, he was going to die next to the chest, leaving his car or whatever around a place with many people would be inviting a search in that area. Nope, I don’t think he was worried too much about being seen, so why waste the morning time when you could be out where you want to be?

      • If The Flyer is indeed a ‘morning’ person, he may have set out in the early morning.

      • I have been mum to this point on this topic since Fs most recent post but have been dying to say this, so I am going to just let it out of the bag. The solve I sent to Dal titled “Starting at Agua Fria” involves an event that occurred many years ago in the life of Kit Carson. His latest scrapbook (183) mentions 38 days. Now I tend to read the posts and comments once through before re-reading and looking for hints. Someone pointed out in a comment that 38 days from the date of the post is June 4th, and asked if anyone was planning a search for that date. The event in question from my solve took place on June 4th.

      • It was just a scenario. Since you asked, horse could carry roughly 200lbs a total of 20 miles in roughly 8-9 hours, without being too worked up. Anything over and you may stress the horse. Not 1000% positive but close enough. Maybe that’s why he took 2 trips. What did he weigh back then? Maybe 180? I’m sure a horse person would know for sure. (not what he weighed, how far a horse could go with what weight)

  14. “zaphod73491 on May 3, 2017 at 9:54 am said:

    Forrest logic at the Fenn household:

    Peggy: β€œForrest, dear, can you go to store and pick up a loaf of bread? If they have eggs, get a dozen.”

    Forrest returns home with a dozen loaves of bread. ”

    Eggsactly! πŸ™‚

    • Ha Ha – I love the dozen loaves of bread comment πŸ™‚

  15. Hi, everyone!

    Just wanted to let you know that if you look under the category “Forrest’s Scrapbooks”, dal posted a link at the top of the page to a quick-reference index I put together of all past scrapbook entries.

    Each scrapbook entry listed on the index has only one brief line of text summarizing the contents of the entry in very general terms. It’s meant as a quick reminder of what each scrapbook entry contains, but is by no means intended to be substitute for reading the entry in full. I have tried to make my brief descriptions as objective as possible.

    I hope some of you find it useful! It’s already been a good study aid for me in remembering what’s where! πŸ™‚

  16. So, the autobiography needs to be read with a magnifying glass.
    I’m assuming it was typed on a computer & then digitally printed & then reduced with a scanner?
    Then printed with inks on a material that both would last 1K years.

    It’s possible to print it by hand using a magnifying glass & some sort of braced thingamajig.
    20K words would take forever though.

    • Magnification will not be required in 1K years due to the evolution of human visual acuity…Fenn thought of everything.

      • I wouldn’t doubt that J Smith seeing we will probably have some crazy implants by then. We may become Borg-like.

        I’m just trying to get ideas on who actually shrunk it down for him or did he do it himself?

        I’m sure he could have Googled all the info he needed to do it himself & not bring the autobiography to an expert on a flash drive.

        Makes you wonder how technologically advanced he really is & from past statements he appears not to be. Although he had stated something about not knowing how to Photoshop for no need?

        • Jake,
          Fenn Fenn said he’s not good at math, yet he navigated a fighter jet. Meld iron and bronze with the exact quantity, heat, etc. Did land survey. Ran a multi million dollars business and figured out how old Dal is…

          I think he could figure out how to make small print… Although you could ask how he did it and made it fit into an olive jar.

          I wonder how old that olive jar is… All the ones I have bought it n the last decade or so have twist tops…His was a screw top.

          • Seeker,
            You commented what I was also thinking.
            How do you get a 20K word autobiography in a olive jar?
            Must be an old jar & wondering if he took it from the kid that taunted him in his book with it.

            Ya, maybe he only learns things when he has to & has the ability to so when needed. Obviously he wanted to make it work no matter what & that goes for the biography as well.

            The material it’s printed on must be long lasting which you can order online but not so available in a store.

            American money seems to be printed on the toughest material for durability & that Massachusetts co. does not sell to the public.
            That material is sort of like a cloth that resists mold, mildew & every year handling by thousands.

            The inks used to print on that material would not fade in 1K years but we know the sun doesn’t shine on it.

            Thinking it must be rolled up inside the jar like a scroll.
            What type of magnification is needed?
            10X ?

            The jar cannot be too big.

          • There is that news article that says ff found an olive jar in Pompeii, you know as in the Italian city that was destroyed by a volcano. Is it the same olive jar, don’t know but at least that might have been where he got the idea.

          • Oz10,
            I would have to say the olive jar in the chest is just as important than his auto-b. If the jar is not strong enough to take the temp changes, it will not last very long.

            Do you happen to have the info to the article of F having or buying a Olive jar in Italy.
            I do remember whine glasses.

          • The Effigy jar is from Arizona as the article states.
            Casas Grande.
            Rare Indian Artifacts.

            I don’t see the Italy or olive jar connection???
            But I do know jars & things were made to last then, unlike today.
            I can see the jar as one of the “old” items in the chest & the Auto-b as “new”.

          • On 4th column, the writer says that he dug up the olive jar in Pompeii and it is in a museum there. But this article is from 1971. Maybe he found 2. He also found a 15 feet marble statue. Nice…

          • AH, I see.
            But the article says it’s in a museum there.

            I am wondering if he found 2 of them I kept one & re-purposed it for the chest. I bet those jars are much more sturdy than today’s junk including the lid.

            Thanks for the old tiny print article where I need a magnifying glass to read it.

          • Hi Jake: Casa Grande, AZ?? Really? I’ve actually spent some time there. It’s the nearest “real” city to a meteorite fall that occurred over that area almost 20 years ago. My team made the first meteorite recovery there (closer to Stanfield)a few years ago. Dangerous area: lots of Mexican drug runners (as well as regular Central American aliens) crossing the desert there.

          • Well Zap,
            That’s one of the places F has searched for artifacts.
            I would think the dry heat would be more of a problem than aliens or a meteorite piercing your head.

            Have you ever been to the Arctic to look for those rocks from space?

          • i believe you have grossly over-exaggerated in your above comment Seeker,
            as no man alive (or otherwise) could possibly calculate how old Dal is, tbh

            i mean.. do numbers even go that high? πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚

          • I am so old I can remember when there were only two states..hot and cold…
            And everyone had a perfect memory because nothing had happened yet.

          • wow – that’s impressive ..that you still remember those original ‘two states’
            (re: the Lost continent of Mu, and the lost city of Atlantis)

            i mean.. you’re amazing Dal πŸ™‚

            oh, & thanks btw, for discovering fire/inventing the wheel (etc) for everyone
            (ya never know – they might even come in handy one day ..maybe)

          • Hi Jake: desert heat doesn’t bother me much. I made my first meteorite find on a dry lake bed in the Mojave on a day the temperature hit 115. But the area west of Casa Grande is no place for the meek. Discarded water jugs, clothes, tattered backpacks, spent ammo and hand-crafted drug-runner shoes (in the same vein as Forrest’s North Vietnamese tire-tread shoe memorabelia) are disturbing reminders of folks we did not want to encounter. But worse was the discovery of human remains by one of our team members. The desert is a harsh mistress. But not as harsh as the Antarctic desert.

            To answer your question, no I’ve not (yet) been on one of the ANSMET expeditions. Would love to do it one season; just hard to put one’s life on hold for 3 months.

        • I know his email J Smith.
          I have emailed him 5 times in almost 2 years.

          I have gotten 2 replies.

          If you go to his website, you have better results of getting a reply as long as he doesn’t think it’s about the Chase.

          My 1st email to him: Sat, Sep 05, 2015 8:35 pm
          Would you happen to have seen any artwork by Grafton Tyler Brown in your experiences?

          No sir. f

          Funny, he didn’t know it was part of my solve back then & helped but not really.

  17. Again…Jake has mentioned one of the more intriguing mysteries of the Chase. The Olive jar and 20k word biography with the hairs…
    I have not thought about the actual logistics of how Fenn may have accomplished writing and enclosing the biography with longevity in mind and been successful with any lasting ideas. The jar itself has presented enough issues to make me believe that there are issues with certain places where he may have secreted the chest. This is a good one….

  18. Happy Derby Day!

    Here’s how to make a traditional Kentucky Mint Julep. You’ll need:

    Simple Syrup
    Mint Leaves


    Pour the bourbon in a glass. Throw the other stuff away.


    • LOL JP,
      Always Dreaming

      Thunder Snow may be the theme of the times.

      • I’m betting Irish War Cry, and a side bet on Practical Joke, because you should always bet on those.

        • I do like Irish War Cry as I am half Irish.
          I’m not looking forward to Practical Joke but it seems to come into play with Odds n Ends.

          How about Untrapped?
          Breeder: Indian Creek & Jonathan Sheppard.
          Never mind, the odds are last at this time.

          • I’m just kidding on Practical Joke. It’s odds are 30-1! You’d have to really believe in long shots πŸ™‚

            You shouldn’t take my advice on picking horses. I have mixed results. My actual bet I placed was an exacta box on Irish War Cry and Classic Empire. In the past I missed California Gold, but I got Orb. No one expected American Pharoah to do what he did (first Grand Slam winner ever).

          • Gotta love the Kentucky Derby & I know you live close by & see may horses on your way.

            I’m getting ready to place a small wager, maybe boxed, I don’t want to spend too much not leaving enough for my trip which I am booking now to Bozeman.

            If only I could only comprehend what the horses are saying, I would be all set.

            Most of these horses are from KY.

          • That colt Always Dreaming is in the mix ken.
            Although it may turn into a nightmare.

            Don’t worry Goofy, we will get back to the chase after this chase.
            Where’s your money at?
            The Superbowl of pony’s & phonies, maybe horseshoes & hand grenades will point to the Omega’s.

          • Ken,
            You got it right!
            Funny how everything we do relates to the chase.

            I’m always dreaming about the chase when I’m awake.

      • Buffalo Trace Distillery is less than a half hour from my house πŸ™‚ But more important is why have I never seen that amazing photo before!

  19. Jake, you mentioned:
    “Then printed with inks on a material that both would last 1K years”

    We have no idea what the autobiography says, maybe it contains no insights to the chase at all. Even if he conferred with a skilled printer, this happened well before the chase began.
    It’s kinda like you mentioned, Fenn claims he did it, so lets just take him at his word and move ahead.

    We know ff undertook this idea, in part to “pay it forward” but IMO, also his legacy/ meaning the longer it stays hidden- the better.
    The curious part is, why does everyone take the 100 years & 1000 years comment as absolute?

    When talking about the ‘clues’ Fenn leaves open the possibility…..”I THINK they might still exist in 100 years”

    • Been wondering on this as well. Where did he comment about the clues being good for 1k years? Only comment I have seen is on MW where he commented that at best the clues might be good for 100 years. But on here people seem obsessed with 1,000 years being accounted for. Clarification would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

      • Oh,
        “(31:50) I’m looking at 100 years down the road, 1,000 years down the road, maybe 10,000 years down the road. It took me 15 years to write the poem, I’ve changed it so many times, I’ve said before, I didn’t write that poem, it was written by an architect. Each word is deliberate.”

        Forrest Fenn, Collected Works Bookstore, 10-22-2013

        Oh, sorry. The video is no longer there & you probably have to pay a few bucks to see & hear it for yourself.

        Trust me. He said it & I transcribed it very carefully.

        • Thx for the recap, Jake.
          I’ll give the vid a ‘relisten’ . . .

    • TCM9C and Oh – here is the Q&A the drives the discussion about 100 years and 1000 years:

      Q. Did the same 9 clues exist when you were a kid and to your estimation will they still exist in 100 years and 1000 years?
      A. The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years but the geography probably will change before we reach the next millennia. The Rocky Mountains are still moving and associated physical changes will surely have an impact. If you are in the year 3009 it will be more difficult for you to find the treasure. f

      I throw this one in as well because I think it is also applicable to the thought:

      Curious about the long-term fate of both the chest and the quest, I asked Fenn whether the clues in the poem will also withstand the test of time. β€œI am guessing the clues will stand for centuries. That was one of my basic premises, but the treasure chest will fall victim to geological phenomena just like everything else. Who can predict earthquakes, floods, mudslides, fires, tornadoes and other factors?” Fenn says.

      Some people in the past have like to think that the clues referred to in this quote is just the clues in the poem and the poem being around for centuries, but the question was about the long-term fate of the chest and the quest, not if the poem will still be around in that period of time. The poem will be around for as long as man has any interest in word challenges and treasure hunts, and I suspect that will even be after (if) the chest is found.

      These quotes and and hundreds more by f and others about finding the chest can be found in my ‘Chasing Words of Forrest Fenn’ documents; just click on my initials. There are many who see the wisdom in knowing and studying the many things f has said about finding his treasure chest.

      • The most interesting thing about those two inquiries is the fate of the chest seems to be in the hands of the movement of the land.
        If so, Then the clues or what they refer to seem to have the same fate… The clues are told, to bring a searcher “precisely” to the treasure… if the chest moves over time, the clues seem to have less advantage because of that movement. { which more than likely affects the clues as well }

        What does this tell us? And does it help with how the solve plays out?

        • Seeker;

          If the clues and Indulgence are, in-effect one.
          Logic tells me that if Indulgence were to move some distance because of geologic or natural forces, the clue that led the searcher “precisely” to Indulgence would have to move too. Inseparability is inseparability. Body – mind – spirit are inseparable. One can not have one without the other. The poem – the clues – and Indulgence (to me) are one – Inseparable. A force on one shall be applied to the other. That is the way Forrest designed it, so that the “Chase” COULD go on for a thousand years or more…But what do I know? Probably nada. JDA


          • Just a couple f’r’instances in counterpoint, JDA:

            Check out the 1959 Hebgen Lake earthquake. Or the 1925 Gros Ventre landslide that created Lower Slide Lake. And what happened in 1927 when the landslide dam failed.


        • JDA: our views of the Fenn puzzle are frequently out of alignment, but on this point we are in lock-step. To first order, I believe that in whatever way the landscape makes its slow but inexorable movements, the human tags we’ve attached to the geographical features of that landscape will move right along with them. Not so good for folks dependent on coordinates through the centuries, but canyons are canyons, rivers are rivers and mountains are mountains. While the various names we assign to these entities may evolve thru the decades and centuries, the entities themselves evolve on much slower timescales. This is a strong argument in favor of placenames over coordinates.

          • Zap;
            Good to see that we can agree on something. TRY to STAY SAFE out there Zap JDA

        • Seeker;

          Forrest said (paraphrasing) – “Put an “X” on the map.” – well, since the poem IS the map – does this mean that we need to put an “X” IN the poem?

          “If you are brave and in the wood I give you title to the gold…eXit… or neXt…” – or is that messin’ with the poem? JDA πŸ™‚

          • JDA,
            I don’t know what you mean by Exit and Next.
            As far as movement of anything { from your other post } The problem may stem with “precisely” which is exact… so I guess if we’re looking for an X, eXact has one as well.

            Hypothetical; If the land shifts over time and a marker/blaze is used for the location of the chest { lets say a black stone that covers the chest } it’s more than likely the stone and the chest will move together.
            IF the land shifts, up lift, slides sideways… any normal movement that comes with time… the clues and chest can get separated, if they work together as a precise trail to a 10″sq spot.

            Think of it like this; your given a road maps with each turn laid out. But later, one or two turns close, or another road take place of the old road etc. Will the old map get you precisely through the same course? And if the course is changed will it lead to the correct destination? { a very small destination }

            So if the movement of the land can effect the finding of the exact location… maybe the clues are more important together than just stomping point to point… maybe, the clue references need to be where they are to show the last hidden point.

          • Seeker;

            I was just trying to be a bit funny with the eXit and neXt. I was just adding a word to the end of the poem with an “X” in it.

            The rest of your post is very clear – Thanks for the post Seeker. Your last paragraph is very precise. Thanks JDA

        • Seeker, I suggest you re-visit the ORIGINAL
          quote from FF where he uses the word

          Good luck in your solving and searching.

          • What part of the sentence with precisely, should I revisit?
            “So I wrote a poem containing nine clues this if followed precisely, will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure:”

            What we know is, the chest we seek is 10″sq inches… that seems to be an exact location / spot. Especially since we are told no one will stumble upon it and that it’s hidden.

            Could you elaborate?

    • I wonder if I will see a “non-moisture packet” in the olive jar when I open the chest. You know, the kind of things they put in beef jerky packages, pill bottles and electronic equipment to help keep the internal moisture of the package near 0% humidity.

  20. I’ve noticed many hardships within the Chase community as of late. Sadness, despair, and shortcomings have come together to try and bring some of us down. So, I’ve decided to help those fight back. I’d like to share my video with any of you who are interested. It is an inspirational look at what holds us back and the importance of having the right mindset in moving forward. It is also subtly TTotC β€œin its essence” as well. I apologize if it is choreographed in my β€œimage”, but it was initially for me only. I hope you enjoy this message of motivation and its possibility to inspire you.


    • Thanks Iron Will….. I needed that right now…… have a great night my friend… see ya

    • Good job, Iron Will!

      That reminds me that I still need to watch “Wild”. What’s the title of the dog-racing movie and the one with the man in the Japanese labor camp?

        • IW,
          Some of the test is slanted to your flavor not F’s.
          There is no black & white in F’s book.
          All grays.

          Nice entertainment while waiting for the snow to melt though & glad to see you back on a different horse.

        • Thanks, IW! I added both as well to my Netflix cue. And I agree, both appropriate titles! πŸ˜‰

      • Iron, thank you for the video and checklist – both are appreciated. I have a question that I’m sure someone knows the answer to. When did FF say not in a CAVE? I know that FF has said the TC isn’t in a mine or tunnel, but somehow somewhere “cave” became part of that phrase and part of the checklist…and I’m wondering if someone has a reference. Thanks so much.

        • Sandy-
          Forrest has said that it’s not in a cave a couple of times. Once was on the Richard Eeds Show on KVSF radio in Santa Fe…
          Listen to this…

          and because I am not a nice person I won’t tell you exactly where the “cave” remark is at in that lengthy interview…

          But because my mother yells at me if I’m not nice I’ll tell you to listen at around 24 and a half minutes in to the interview to hear the “cave” remark…

        • Hi IronWill….great questions in “Your Nine Lives”. I went through them all and as a “solve checklist” – you did wonderful. Here are my answers – if you even wanted to know:

          1 – elevation? – Y
          2 – contains? – Y
          3 – 4-states? – Y
          4 – Dam? – Y
          5 – Distance? – Y
          6 – Weight? – Y
          7 – Following clues? – Y
          8 – Human trail? – Y
          9 – blaze? – Y
          A – Special? – Y
          B – Private – N
          C – India girl? – Y
          D – Guru? – Y – *smiles* – I’ve studied the paranormal and consciousness for over 25 years.
          E – TFTW clues? – N
          F – hints? – Y
          G – location? – Y – figuratively speaking of course
          H – Water? – N
          I – electricity? – N
          J – uhm…..I agree with FF – one cannot complete the quest

          Cool questions…..thanks for posting the link

          Good Luck!

        • Pretty thorough checklist, Fe-Will. With the exceptions listed below, I answered yes to all of them. At the end, I’ve suggested a few additional questions you could add to your ETA Test.

          B. No — not on private property. No ownership issues for the finder.

          C. I think the Little Girl in India “test” should probably be dropped because a lot of people read too much into Forrest’s answer and not enough into Jenny’s question. The full wording of the question is important: “Can a little girl in India, who speaks good English, but only has your poem and a map of the US Rocky Mountains, work out where the treasure is? And would she be confident as she solves each clue, or only confident when she has solved them all?” That “but” clause in the first question forces Forrest to truthfully answer “The little girl in India cannot get closer than the first two clues” because she ONLY has the poem and a map of the US Rocky Mountains. That is the wrong map to get beyond the first 2 clues.

          D. (Omniscient guru test). This is another test that in my opinion should be dropped because it is too subjective. There are many other Weekly Words at MW that could provide tests that are more objective.

          E. I see at least 2 unintended clues in TFTW, so yes.

          F. Yes, I found far more than 2 hints in TTOTC. More than an order of magnitude greater than two.

          G. I think this question is somewhat redundant with question A.

          I. (On Forrest’s 99% certainty that the chest is still where he left it) No — no landline power at my chest location. But I don’t believe a powered device at the chest’s location is Forrest’s method for knowing the chest is still there.

          Some other tests I think you could add:

          K. Does your solution have an explanation for what Forrest meant when he said “Many are giving serious thought to the clues in my poem, but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key.”

          L. Did most of the places that the poem’s clues refer to exist when Forrest was a kid?

          M. Is your blaze one single object?

          N. Is your proposed location for the chest in a dangerous place? [Answer should be no, of course]

          O. Does your solution provide an explanation for Forrest’s statement “What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve”?

          P. Does your solution depend on commas or misspellings being clues? [Must answer NO due to Forrest’s reply to Mindy: “I have always said the poem will lead you to the treasure if you have the right map and know where to start. It is straight forward so there is no need to over-think it or look for commas and misspellings as clues. It was not written with the idea of fooling anyone.”

          • Agree (except IDK about TFTW – no book). Good thoughts and questions. He said over and over that there would be no ownership issues; I think you’ve got it correct. Thanks.

        • I still have my 9 lives but I have issues with the other questions. β€˜A’ is a little subjective, but I can answer yes. β€˜B’ did FF confirm it’s on private property? β€˜D’ also subjective, but I will give it a yes. β€˜E’ I have not read TFTW. β€˜G’ did FF say he wanted to have his bones buried? (I would rephrase that one). β€˜I’ there were no electrical outlets nearby but I suppose it’s within range to run a secret power wire. β€˜J’ am I supposed to agree with FF? If so yes.


      • Thanks, IW! I tried out your checklist and still feel good about my solve. The only “9 lives” question that I cannot answer solidly with a “yes” is the last one related to the blaze, but I have stated that it’s my belief that the blaze can’t be determined using maps or GE and requires a BOTG search, so I’m ok with that and gave myself a pass! πŸ˜‰

    • Iron Will,
      That was beautiful.
      I think it takes a certain type of person to keep searching in the Chase. We’ve all had our failures, but we keep chugging along! We evolve into another type of person. One full of grit and determination. At least that is how I feel this has effected me. I’m stronger now, and my hardships seem to be a little less than before the Chase.
      Again, the video was great.
      Thank you Forrest, for pushing us all to be something other than a robot in a rut!

    • Thanks for Sharing! Nice job on the production! I posted and shared your inspirational offering.

    • Never,never,never give up.
      Thank you for the inspiration,Iron. You tube a great video .

    • Geez, Iron Will, that is awesome. I am sitting here in the garden with tears running down my face.

      Thank you. I will share it.

      • I’m glad you liked it. There was a lot of subtle work put into that.

        • IW you are very talented. Didn’t you make fried pies last year? You can “bring home the bacon and fry it up in a pan!” πŸ™‚

    • Dear Magnetic Friend,

      Thank you for this video and your contributions to the Chase. It seems to me that you have found something more valuable than Forrest’s gold on this treasure hunt.

      I will play your video for inspiration before I head out to my search area.

      With Deep Respect,

      3 Days of the Condor

    • WOW Iron McFe Will – really loved ya U-toob vid compilation, esp my fav Up/Into the Wild movie bits πŸ™‚

      you’re def the gutsiest searcher here by far (imho) ..so keep ya titanium alloy chin up, mate – no retreat, no surrender!!

      ( ..& ya don’t need to worry about Zap finding the TC btw, as he’s still on the moon busily collecting astroloids, or Helium3 ..or probably playing golf i reckon πŸ™‚ )

    • Inspirational vid IW.
      β€œCourage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway.”
      ― John Wayne

    • SL … if it’s Hell Creek, Montana you’re heading to, that would be outside the search area. Hell Creek is not in the Rocky Mountains.

      Ken (in Texas)

  21. Iron Will…your guts and determination are the marks of a persistent type. It is great to see you are still in it. Have fun with the Chase and enjoy the challenge…that is the way success will be measured for most of us.
    I confess to not reading your entry and I am sure you worked hard on it. There is just no more space in my head for info that did not come from Fenn himself. Thanks for keeping it real IW.

  22. Here’s the link to a new interview with Forrest. It is a podcast made by Isaac Cole as a segment to his On The Road with Charlie podcast project.
    http://ontheroadwithcharlie.org/ The interview with Forrest starts at 6:18 into it.

    I’ve listened to it three times. Mostly the same answers Forrest has given over the past 7 years. However, a few things caught my attention: around the 13:00 mark, He said “The last time I was up there (meaning Yellowstone and West Yellowstone) was in 1950.” Near the 25:00 minute mark he said, “It’s hidden in a pretty good place. You’ve got to solve the riddle in the poem.” And at the 30:40 mark, he said “You can’t ignore any of the nouns in that poem.” So I guess if you haven’t already done so, look at every noun and use them to solve the riddle. On your mark, get set, GO! (I’m going again Friday.)

    • Thank you for the link, Cynthia. Looking forward to listening to it this evening.

      • Hey Oz….that could mean the he didn’t stay or had visited WYP.

        If true, that would cause many people to rethink a possible starting point, that they may have used in their solve.

        I had gone a different route, but had considered WYP initially.


        • Are there any stories of him being there after 1950? Anything written in his books?

          • His brother and him opened a motel in Montana up near Yellowstone. Surely he went in there at that time. After hearing the audio it sounds like he is just referring to West Yellowstone.

            Thanks for sharing Cyn!

          • Hi Oz….Not sure…..TTOTC is basically a telling of his life thus far. I would think like others have, statistically, he has travelled to the WYP “region”….as we know he has gone to Cody…..and that alone tells me he could have visited the region.

            IOW….may not in the city itself, but possibly nearby.

    • Regarding the West Yellowstone comment, he clearly meant the last time he frequented there. The context was that the interviewer mentioned a place called “Campfire Lodge” and Forrest was saying that place was after his time.

      • (After his time meaning, specifically, when he spent his summers there.)

        • I wonder what he meant by this. I found information in regards to this place, and the first owner was Mrs. Bertha Miller, March 3, 1922 to April 25, 1946. Have any ideas?

        • All I heard was that 7% of the American population is crazy, and inferred that most of them are searchers!

          The Dude Motel was built after 1950. In the Moby Dick Bookshop video he said he flew his plane to go fishing in the Rockies all the time, including to Lander, WY and the Popo Agie. He has ties to the museum in Cody, WY.

          For people to jump on this comment, of all the comments in that podcast, you people are weird. πŸ™‚

          • On this date, at 8:08 p.m. Mountain Time, there was approximately 325,016,244 in the American population. Minus 7%, this would leave 22,751,137.08 Americans, and most are searchers. That’s a lot of searchers Mr. Fenn! Somehow, I think the Math is off. πŸ™‚

          • No wonder why I couldn’t get a seat on the Bus tonight.. πŸ™‚

          • Hi Jeremy: I thought the figure was more like 25%. The joke used to be: “25% of people suffer from some form of mental illness. Think of your 3 closest friends; if they seem normal, it’s you.” πŸ˜‰

          • My dear close friend zaphod73491… I regret to inform you, but my other two friends and I are completely normal… so… πŸ™‚

          • Jeremy: all my friends seem quite normal, so I think you’re on to something!

    • Quote of the day: “I’m convinced that 7% of the American population… people are certifiably crazy.”

    • So, after all the speculation that someone(s) was/were closing in, it seems they haven’t progressed further than “within 200 ft”. Interesting.

    • Thanks for sharing, Cynthia! Will give it a listen soon, but the highlights are appreciated. πŸ™‚

    • Wow, I have transcribed most of the applicable comments and had to take a break to see if there is much chatter going on about this interview. There is some significant comments in there about the poem — if you are listening closely and paying attention. What seems to be random and oft repeated statements by f over the years comes together in a very interesting explanation.

    • Cynthia—

      Thanks for sharing the link. That was really interesting to listen to– and the podcast itself is refreshing. I really enjoyed it.

    • Math that does add up:

      Conversation about book sales starts about 17:10. He says sales to-date are about 22,000 copies of The Thrill of the Chase. The deal that he made with the book store is that 10% of gross sales would be donated to a cancer fund. He’s given, he thinks, about $85,000 through this fund.

      22,000 times $35 is $770,000 and 10% of that is (close enough to) $85,000.

      • I concur. I worked on the Math this morning and saw the same results. I think it’s great figures that are helping those in need with cancer.

        I’m still puzzled about the 1950 comment he made about the last time being there. Where is “there”? West Yellowstone, MT? I know he’s been there since then. What are your thoughts to this comment?

        • My thought is that you have three propositions from which to choose. The first is that he was talking about the last time he spent his summers there. The second is that he simply misspoke and said something that wasn’t true. The third is that he intentionally said something that wasn’t true. I can’t help with the latter two because I don’t see any reason to accept them. For those searching West Yellowstone, I don’t believe you have any reason to accept the latter two either.

          • Thank you, Jeremy P.. I had wondered if any of those would have fallen amongst the “85/15” rule he mentioned in the book.

          • In that case, pdenver, your next conclusion would be that he’s drawing attention to the fact that he was there, by saying he wasn’t, because you’d be accepting the third proposition, and that’s the conclusion that follows.

            However, the way it goes is that you are supposed to accept the first proposition because it’s more economical.

            Accepting the third proposition doesn’t add anything additional to what you already know — he has been there since 1950. It’s the same position you would be in if you accept the first proposition. Except that it costs more. You already have that information, yet you are adding the expense of justifying that he told a fib, a fib designed to reiterate what you already know. It’s an unnecessary expense.

            You ought to accept the first proposition because the brain cells you expended on the other two propositions can be saved for beer, with the same outcome.

          • Somehow, I understood what he had to say differently, because I didn’t hear him say “3 months,” which, indeed, he did say. Without hearing this in the first place, my mind worked around the thoughts that it did. Sometimes, my simplemindedness tries to think too hard. No beer for me…don’t drink alcohol.

          • “No beer for me…don’t drink alcohol.”

            Now there’s a problem we can fix! πŸ™‚

          • Okay, I’ll take a virgin Pina Colada, but still won’t drink alcohol. πŸ™‚

          • [note to self: immediately cancel pdenvers complimentary crate of Dal’s ‘special vintage’ moonshine.. ]

            [ ..and redirect it to Jeremy instead]

          • If you’re talking about the TOWN of West Yellowstone, it’s full of “human trails” (streets, sidewalks). This would tend to disqualify it as the place where the TC is hidden. Development and
            growth of the town would certainly, over a few hundred years, “crowd” the TC to the point that it would probably be easily found, maybe even by a

        • As much as I would like to rule out Yellowstone/West Yellowstone as the location for the hidden treasure, there are people who know for a fact that Forrest has been to those places within the last numerous years. So if these places are your search areas, go there. I think his comment about 1950 had to do with him spending his summers there which was the conversation at that moment in the podcast, and in 1950 he would have been 19/20 years old, just before entering the Air Force.

          • Went back to listen to the section of the podcast, and, indeed, he did mention “3 months” in the conversation. Not sure how I missed that part of it, but it does make sense now. I hope I can spend more time in West Yellowstone and see more of this beautiful place. My family and I were there briefly last year and thought it to be a quaint town.

      • What do you think the value of a picture of the TC safely tucked away in the hidey hole in 2009 (before the poem was published) would be worth, if 100% of the proceeds went to the cancer fund? Assume the picture is auctioned off revealing the poem solve and Mr. Fenn validating the solve. The name of the successful searcher would not be revealed or the treasure chest. How much money do you think could be raised for cancer research?

        Do you think that would be a great way to end the search? Or, do you think the solve should never be revealed and validated so the challenge can go on forever?

      • He only sold about 22,000 copies?
        I thought it would be a lot more considering the 65,000 searchers statement.

    • I am not sure what Mr. Fenn meant by he has not been up there since 1950. I am confused for several reasons: He was involved in building the Dude motel, I believe that there was a story that he took his father up there when his father near the end, I seem to recall a story were he took his former teacher to a lake in YNP when he was near the end. I also recall a story where he said he took his family to his old swimming hole.

      I am not suggesting that Mr. Fenn was dishonest in the podcast. I am confused as to where he has not been since 1950. Those stories were all after 1950 and include: YNP twice, West Yellowstone, and a campground along the Madison past Quake Lake.

    • Thanks Cynthia, Charlie, Dal and Forrest,
      Charlie you are on a good path, love the spirit. One thing that immediately came to mind was Mr. Fenn’s mention of not enjoying it much anymore and feeling obligated to the searchers. This seems so unselfish to me, a testament to the kind of man he is. He has already introduced thousands of families to the great outdoors, and given many more a place to enjoy and share adventures and memories that will last many life times. Mr. Fenn if there is anything to enjoy it should be the inspiration you have given so many of us, our friends, families and children. It would be a beautiful site to someday see a Forrest Fenn Ranch somewhere in the Rockies where families and children of all ages could sit under a tree somewhere and just enjoy the big picture before casting a freshly tied fly.
      The seeds have already been planted and are beginning to sprout once again as spring has surfaced, if ever slowly, with family time becoming more important today than perhaps any other time in our past. Thanks Mr. Fenn for being yourself. You Sir, are going to be the life of the party at that big buffet table in the sky, much like you are here amongst your many friends, who have been inspired by your imagination and thought provoking Chase. Mr. Fenn are a class act unlike no other. Ok, maybe I’m stretching the rule and sounding edgy but I hope you catch my drift, its all in good fun. And we as Americans should be especially grateful as we look down and count our blessings. One last reminder! Thanks Mom, without you I wouldn’t be, your son.

  23. I forgot to mention that sometimes the thing stops at the 16 minute mark. Forrest said he had that problem, and I experienced it once so started over. It’s a total of 38+ minutes long.

    • I just received an email from Isaac that he fixed this issue, so the podcast should play through without stopping.

    • Hi Cynthia — the podcast worked fine for me when I listened last night. Isaac’s voice reminds me somewhat of Edward Norton. One of the more surprising (to me) revelations in this podcast is just how few copies of TFTW have been sold compared to TTOTC! That’s a lot of searchers that I believe are missing out on some really good hints.

    • Thanks Cynthia,
      Couple things stick out in my mind.
      He mentions the poem is straightforward a couple times.
      No Tom foolery he says.

      Person place or thing…..
      Don’t ignore the nouns.

    • Finally listened to it all today. I especially liked this interview because it struck me as one of Forrest’s most casual ones that I have heard. I mostly took away a lot of re-emphasis on past information/advice/hints that Forrest has already given out, but it was just good to hear that Forrest is still doing well and was able to kick back and shoot the breeze with Isaac.

      I’m looking forward to listening to Isaac’s next BOTG search episode with Cynthia when it’s ready. Is it the partnered search trip with Isaac that you are going on tomorrow, Cynthia?

      • Blex, Not the same place tomorrow as where I took Isaac for the podcast. But I was truthful when I said I had not taken any media there prior, nor completed my search there. It really was a new search to me at that particular place when I took Isaac. But shortly afterwards I found a better WWWH with all the clues fitting my new area. That is where I’m going tomorrow.

  24. Following threads can be fun. Try looking up the following and tell me what you see:


  25. http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/president-reagan-mastermind/n9509?snl=1

    This old SNL skit reminds me of who I think Forrest really is. I think Forrest has this persona in public of the 86 year old man, hard of hearing, and with pleasant tales to tell. Then when he’s behind closed doors he fires up a bowl, and becomes the real Fenn. I also think Forrest does 500 push-ups every day, and walks 50 miles on a tread mill. If you have time watch this old skit about Reagan–it’s actually pretty funny. πŸ™‚

    • Enjoyed reading the link, SL. Thank you. One of the comments I found that I would agree that makes Eratosthenes and Mr. Fenn in common is what Eratosthenes called himself…’philologos’–‘lover of learning.’

  26. Thanks Cynthia for sharing the link to Isaac’s podcast. Listening to Forrest answer some of the questions presented, brought a lot of emotion about the Chase to light.

  27. New to the blog, been in the Chase for a year and a half, I have kept a whisper on your comments .

    • welcome to the mad-house, Show me πŸ™‚

      please feel free to present your ‘i’m officially insane’ certificate at the door – which MUST be signed by (at least) three reputable psycho-therapists btw …dems da rules, apparently

      ( ,,& no, ‘avidly watching Dr Phil’ doesn’t count as one πŸ™ )

  28. Anyone else having trouble pulling the current discussion on the word that is key?

  29. For years I stuck with the idea that “wise” meant sage, the plant.
    Now I am willing to consider the goddess of wisdom Minerva, the owl.
    Points of interest related to this include the Minerva Terraces YNP

    • Michael, I think FF’s use of the word “wise” relates to
      neither of those things you mentioned. Other folks have taken it to mean something like “you have to be wise to solve the poem”. But this would be too obvious, IMO.

      I think there’s a connection between the word “wise” and
      an aberration — or should I say “A. Burr — ation” in one of FF’s two books that are frequently discussed in these forums.

      Good luck to you.

      • Frank, Tightfocus and Miichael;

        Wise – Wise like an Owl. But HOW is an Owl wise?
        For one thing, an Owl chooses the highest perch from which to seek out his prey – A High Perch from which he can see everything around him. “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,…” If you have (in the past – yesterday, or some day before) stood on a high perch and from there, spotted the blaze…” (Interp.) then “Look quickly down (From your high perch), your quest to cease, …” (Interp.) Make sense? It does to me…but what do I know? Probably Nada – JDA

        • JDA,
          What would happen if you looked slowly down from your high perch?

        • JDA, when I was on my high school tennis
          team, I found that I played better when my
          opponent was slightly better than me.

          My posting (above), in response to Michael
          Hendrickson, was an attempt to help him just
          a little, without giving away too much info.

          Based on having read some of his postings,
          and also some of yours, I’m offering you the
          same help (and message . . . about A. Burr).
          If you are “wise” enough to delve into it, it
          may help you (a little). I never try to mislead
          other searchers, even though I don’t want to
          help them TOO much. And here’s another
          claim of mine about the word “wise” : One
          doesn’t NEED to be wise to solve the poem
          entirely correctly — or to find the blaze. But
          “wise” may, in fact, be the “word that is key”.
          I’m not trying to mislead you here. Yes, be
          skeptical. If I find the TC, I will post pictures
          online for all to see. Maybe a video also. I
          will want to guard my identity throughout it
          all, though. Good luck in solving and

  30. So I finally went on my first search. I was certain that I knew where the Treasure was hidden in all it’s glittering splendour. It took several painstaking hours to get there, and the drive was grueling.

    The hardest part for me was the altitude. I got that sickness and felt nauseous for hours. But the spectacular beauty I encountered far outweighed the nausea, and soon breathtaking views we’re all I could see. It was like Heaven. The smell of pine trees, and the gentle gurgling of a Brook combined to engulf my senses. All I felt was the greatest sense of tranquility and peace.

    I knew the coordinates were correct– I was certain of it. Through Glen and Dale, and over fallen tree limbs which snapped as I stepped upon them, I made my way hear the meandering Creek. Up, and then over a short grass covered hill, and I was there. A scared rabbit hurried into the brush, and some birds burst forth into the air as a result.

    There it was. It was in plain sight, but could so easily be missed by the untrained eye. I again checked the GPS. Yes, the numbers were correct. I was ecstatic and my heart was racing. I opened the lid. There is a good frog in the chest. I picked it up and felt that smooth golden frog, and marvelled at all of the other things that were in the chest.

    But I had to close the lid. I couldn’t do it. My mind thought of all the other searchers who needed to feel that good frog too. I absolutely had to leave the chest where it lay. Money wasn’t important at that moment. Just the thrill of the Chase, and all of the great joy I would steal from so many if I removed the chest.

    Yes, I had found it. But so should others too. I should not rob them of this unforgettable joy. I had to leave it just where it was. Perhaps if you find it you will do exactly what I did too. It is a legacy that is far more important than any bank account. I had to do the honourable thing.

    A chipmunk jumped up on a rock and gazed at me. It was as if he were saying “Are you really going to leave that beautiful chest right where it is?”. I turned to the chipmunk and said ” Yes, little chipmunk, I am going to leave the chest where it is so that others May experience the same joy I have”. The chipmunk nodded and quickly darted off. I sighed.

    I am a member of the one foot club now. Am I proud that I know exactly where the chest is without one shadow of doubt? No, I’m not proud. I just wish that you could feel the same and exhilaration I have felt. And perhaps one day you will. Yes, I left two million dollars worth of gold and jewels up “there”. But the Chase is the important thing. Two can keep a secret if one of them is a chipmunk.

    • Sparrow- that was a visually pleasing story. Makes for a lovely dream sequence.

    • jeez Sparrow, what sorta meds are ya on at the mo?

      ( ..i want some!! πŸ™‚ )

      • They really are good meds CH. I always ask the nurse for a few extra. I always seem to have great dreams when she comes through with them. πŸ™‚

    • Good story sparrow, but I think you’re prolly poking the wrong bear with a stick! IMO πŸ™‚

    • I have made 5 searches now, and decided to leave the chest out there each time. I think I will go ahead and take the chest on my next trip.
      There is nothing I like better than wilderness adventure, but the thrill here is rooted in gold. I don’t mind admitting that I would have never become a searcher if the chest was empty.
      So I’ve wondered how many of you would want to keep searching and solving after it is found? Maybe the solution is kept secret, and maybe a register is left behind in it’s place that future searchers could sign when the find it, the finder’s club.
      Or, how many of you would want to know the winning solution and compare your ideas?

      • Hi Meadowlark.

        For me…I’ve decided that It will be taken home with me….I will “go in peace”.

        I’ve also decided to leave my mark on the location, so if others finally discover this location, they will know their quest has ended too.

        If I am the one to discover the chest…..I also won’t reveal the winning solution right away.

        I will eventually reveal the solution…..if I were to “choose wisely” with my “guesses”….by going on tour with the chest. That way, everyone will know what the answer was, in order to satisfy that void.


        Good luck to all.

          • If I tell ya, I’m gonna have to kill ya…..and I don’t want that to happen….


            I’ve mentioned it int he past, and promised myself I won’t say it anymore. Others know….maybe they will put it out there…..


            Sorry my searching friend.

        • Ron: Tim’s state is the one with at least one “O” in its name. πŸ˜‰

        • Wow!, I thought about doing the same thing, Tim. Leaving a marker of some sort telling others that they hit the right spot so that they will know that they got it right πŸ™‚

          But, instead of going on tour with the chest, I’m heading straight for the Pawn Shop to see how much I can get for it.

          • Tour is down the road…..”I can keep my secret where” ……too.


      • If an angler invites you to go fish a ‘secret’ spot you don’t go back unless you’re invited or the angler gives you permission to go back. You don’t tell other people about the spot and you don’t take others there. This is Mr Fenn’s secret hiding place and it’s special to him. As a fellow angler I would not defile the location or tell others where it is. I would also not be allowed to go back without an invitation from Mr Fenn. If that’s not enough he’s given us about a million reasons to keep this place a secret. The man has been so generous it’s the least we can do. If a person finds the chest that’s all I really need to know. This way the spotlight stays on Mr Fenn where it belongs (IMO), his special place stays a secret and all the searchers that want to find the place for themselves are free to do so.

        • Tbh, I’ll be pissed if someone finds it and doesn’t reveal where.

          With regards to keeping it pure, I think you over-whelming the impact. Large #’s of people aren’t going to a spot where the treasure was and for those that do, I’d imagine they’d be pretty respectful.

          • Hi @ Fmc….Uhm that would be jealousy and jealousy leads to the Dark Side.

            They do have some pretty good chocalote cookies over there…….but I wouldn’t know all that, I’ve only read they did on the internet.


            P.S. I can live with the fact I know how you will feel if I were that finder. :o)

            Good luck to you and be safe out there!

        • If you don’t reveal the find you will be denying Forrest his final resting spot. I think whoever finds it owes him that.

          • “Dying alone” or “with friends and family around you during your last days” – either can be very subjective in meaning.

            “I wanna lay my bones on that place when I die” has a metaphoric and even estoteric meaning, besides the literal meaning.

            I’d love to die on a treasure chest…..and know who finds me will ask that one question….like an old pirate skeleton found upon an old lost treasure chest….”I wonder what happened to him, but look at what he is laying over.” Various emotions can be immediately discovered….Excitement, thrilling, sadness for the dead guy, etc….one can go in many directions…..

            Sounds fantastically dramatic and surreal to someone to actually go out and live this daydream as a true event. I honestly don’t think FF would.

            FF – IMO – loves the outdoors very much, but saw the technological era approaching so fast, that he wanted to do something to help “redirect” the minds of those who were captured by this progress.

            He thought of how…through people coming to him….through the poem.

            He wrote something, had it published it at no gain, except notoriety, and now has thousands upon thousands of people interested in going outdoors and having some fun without the gadgets holding them back.

            He succeeded and doesn’t have to lay his bones on the tc. He knows his spirit is already present with it on so many levels.

    • Sparrow, did you see where I carved my name when I left it there for you?

  31. Glad I popped in to read your post Sparrow. I agree. The money is not important. It is the thrill, not the quarry. By far. Forrest, all of you, The mountains, fresh air, exploring…life is a beautiful thing. I don’t receive notifications any more, I just pop in when I can. You guys are good folks. Dal is awesome, and thank you forrest for the thrill!
    Good night all. Sweet dreams. πŸ™‚

  32. I wonder if Gerry Spence would take my case? I’m being black-mailed by a Wyoming chipmunk.

    • Hi Sparrow…I heard chipmunk tastes like sparrow?


      I don’t think any other animal will miss the little fella.

    • ‘black-mailed by a Wyoming chipmunk’ huh??

      (lol, randawg is SUCH a loveable rascal – i didn’t know he lived in WY though..)

      • so, you’re a chip-munk masquerading as a squirrel, disguised as General Schwarzkopf huh?
        ..very ingenious indeed

        ( ..and i thought I was highly anonymous πŸ™‚ )

  33. Dear poem purists,
    I wonder how you have been lately?

    If all you need is the poem, then how would you know the chest is in NM, CO, WY or MT?
    How would you know it’s not in a cave or mine?
    Do you still think it’s below 5,000 ft or above 10,200′?
    I can go on & on about all the other statements that help you but you probably won’t listen anyway.

    • Hey Jake…I am not a poem purist through and through, however, one could argue the fact that Fenn has assured everyone that the job could be done without all of the extra fluff. All of the info is in the poem….over and over.
      Did you book your trip after the Derby? Take it easy…

      • I’m gonna have to say I think he erred that statement back then.
        There was another statement by him more recently if all you had was the poem & no back story (paraphrasing), in the future, would you be able to find the chest. I believe his answer was no.

        BTW, there are no poem purists.
        I think they have been tainted one way or another at some time.
        Some may think they are but there’s no way to just look at the poem & make decisions while trying to block out all the other stuff they read, heard or saw.

        • Could be Jake. All of the banter and talk is not gonna make the treasure magically appear either. Fun stuff though…sometimes.
          Fenn has been very prolific with his interactions over the years and this has clouded what is pertinent and what is not. I will continue to do what I do and hopefully other folks will have as much fun as I am.

          • ken,
            Are you saying you just need the poem?
            Your response wasn’t clear.

          • Jake…the back story is a necessity for sure. Whether from the book or from the media…does not matter.
            Fenn has said that the clues in the poem need to be solved to find the treasure many many times and I don’t think he erred there. The poem is a map…the poem is a riddle that needs to be solved. THE POEM.
            He has admitted that there is some help with the clues in TTOTC…but it always comes back to the poem.
            Nothing is pure and simple…and this poem is no exception.

          • I agree ken,
            We need a back story & all the other info he has stated.
            Just got to be careful about what are hints in his books.

          • I will quickly add…he has said that you won’t know if you have the first clue until you solve all of the clues and find the treasure. The clues are in the poem…no where else

        • Hi Jake…..

          “……here’s no way to just look at the poem & make decisions while trying to block out all the other stuff they read, heard or saw.”

          I have to agree with this thinking.

          • Tim,
            We agree it’s in SW Montana & agree we need more info from him to narrow it down besides the poem.

            Maybe 2 of your clues may be hints & just don’t know it yet.

    • The poem is all you need…no subterfuge or red herrings.

      Party at the moontower.

      • If the poem is all you need then why has F been very involved with interviews, statements SB’s & such.

        Why didn’t he just hand out a poem to everyone he met or posted it on the internet & not wright the 2 books & let folks run with the poem?


        He likes the entertainment he has started & will continue to do so.

        If all you need is the poem, then, I guess all the other statements & his books are just hot air.

        I don’t think so.

        There are hints in his books & statements that will help with the NINE clues.

        • Serious answer Jake…I think it’s because people keep telling him how great he is in the hope that he might provide a new clue or some other useful information. IMO he’s done giving out clues, hints, etc… but you know, “he’s got to feed the monkey” (Dude Lebowski)

    • Jake ..what??

      ( ..and what’s a ‘purist’ btw? – sounds abit.. well.. PURE!! πŸ™ )

      • curious hobbit,
        Just go with your gut instinct.

        OK, there’s nothing pure in this universe.

        • Jake, I agree. But I think that the poem, by
          itself, provides enough DIRECTIONS.
          Certainly there are other bits of info required,
          such as how to operate a vehicle, or tie one’s
          shoelaces . . . right?

          FF has told us he’s not going to provide any
          more clues. I believe him. His recent
          scrapbooks had little “teasers” that confirmed to me that my solve is strong.

          I suggest that searchers focus more on
          the poem and books by FF, and less on
          these forums. Yeah, you could tell me
          to do this as well. I’m reading these forums,
          trying to find any weakness in my solve.
          So far, I can’t. I can’t afford to go to 2017
          Fennboree, but would have liked to. Maybe
          next year.

        • Poem purists don’t exist.
          They can’t in my mind.
          You just can’t ignore & block out all the other info you have taken in.

          The only way I could see a poem purist being such, is that person has never seen or heard any other info relating to the the Chase.

          If you reply here on this site, chances are, you have already been tainted.

          You cannot ignore things that have already been filtered through your mind.

    • Poem purists, I hope you will change your ways.
      I think the poem purist will get it right 1,000 or 10,000 years down the road but we don’t live that long.

      Use the 2 books to help along with a sprinkle of the many statements he has made on MW’s & here.

      All the info you need to build this cabin is in the blueprints, but I left out the material list, how it was built & where it was built.

    • I’m not looking for a debate on this but I don’t mind putting myself on the record.. I would consider myself a poem purist although I doubt we would agree on a definition. That said I don’t believe external information is a bad thing, it’s just a bit dangerous. That is all I will say on the subject for now. I was just a little bored and hoping you would tell me you would eat your hat if I was right. Joking. Please don’t eat that thing.

      • I will eat my hat Clee, if someone finds the treasure using the poem only with no other info.

        I’m getting hungry….

    • Dear Botg only,
      How would you know the answers to any of those question ??? or not in a graveyard or not in another state N. of SF. or not in any other mountains N. of SF… Unless you Solve the poem’s Clues and found the chest. I mean we have searchers solves who claimed it’s in a mine, or a searchers solves who claimed it was in Idaho etc.

      How can you honestly say “I’m gonna have to say I think he erred that statement back then.”

      There are other statements from fenn… one for example ” I’ve said searchers should go back to the poem so many times…” MW’s Did he erred here as well?
      Or the countless times he mentioned the clues in the poem will lead you to the chest. Were they all in error as well?

      Maybe you could show us all where it refer to elevation of the location of the chest in the book? or not in Utah, Nevada, or Idaho or any other state…

      Seems like you want the poem to read as; As I have gone in the RM’s to a body of water at 7560′ that drains into Joe Billy Bob’s canyon 10 miles down past Josephs Meeks home stead…

      Seriously, have you ever thought that a stanzas word count could possibly give the elevation of each clue? Or is that too big of a whatIF possibility… not simple or straightforward enough, of a poem 15 years in the works.
      It doesn’t change a dang thing, does it? Would it not have the poem containing [in part to elevation] all the information to “Find” the treasures is in the poem?

      Could it be you won’t know the answers to any of those until it’s solved completely and correctly?

      Yep, please show me where in the book any of those questions are answered…
      Q~ Does somebody need to read your book to find the treasure or do all the clues exist within the poem?
      F~ “They don’t need to read my book, but they need to read the poem. The book will help them, but they can find the treasure if they can decipher the clues that are in the poem.” Torg n Elliot

      Maybe the Botg only guy should listen to fenn…”it’s not a matter of trying, it’s a matter of thinking…” SF podacast

      As Far as the poem purist matter… since for some reason, you brought it up, again… there isn’t a single [sane] person that will say… we don’t need the back story/intro to get us started. That is an obvious… other wise all we have is a poem. No north of any place, no mountains, no 9 clues, no size of the item we seek… notta. Other wise we could be looking for a buried Ford pickup with a cargo box full of doggies treats in Mexico.
      “So I wrote a poem containing nine clues that if followed precisely will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure:”
      Did fenn error here as well. All a poem purist is, is someone who takes the guy who start all this for his word… The poem, the poem, the poem has all the information to “Find the treasure”

      ‘I can go on & on about all the other statements that help you but you probably won’t listen anyway.’ Right?

      • Dear missing something,
        I’m not sure why your chiming in on this seeing you think everything under & over the sun is open.

        You must be bored as well & I can’t blame you.

        “Seriously, have you ever thought that a stanzas word count could possibly give the elevation of each clue? ”

        NO & I won’t go there because I know it’s not straight forward.

        I could go on & on about your circle but I would just end up where I started without going anywhere.

        • For me the circle idea is pretty well thought out. Listen to Harry Chapin’s “Circle”. I can’t explain it but there’s power in those circles.

        • Jake, Jake, Jake,
          Are you upset I chimed in on a post that stated with Poem purists I wonder how you’ve been lately… or maybe I used too many quotes- again, or maybe because I actually had a suggestion of How Elevation could have been placed within the poem… That was one of your inquiries, was it not? Or maybe, just maybe there is no way to know the answers to your question prior to the correct solve.

          Or maybe you were just attempting to be sarcastic or condescending and not give any example to how those question can be answered without a prior solution to the clues.

          Oh wait maybe the answers are about know head pressure at a certain altitude… I’ll need to look that up, should take anymore than a few hours. Then I can see if there’s a bible verse that will tell me what state the chest is not in… maybe you would like to explain where we can find all this information?

          Better yet maybe you could give a logical reason why fenn says all the information is in the poem etc. but you say you think this is erred and fenn didn’t mean it.

          Please feel free to use quotes if you like.

          • Upset?
            Heck no Seeker.
            I don’t think elevation is in the poem.
            Your head pressure needs to be reduced.

            How about something simple.
            A poem purist relies on the poem only with no other info.
            Maybe it can be done in 10,000 years with this thinking.

            Seeker: “fenn says all the information is in the poem etc.”
            He never said that all the information that he has said, like “The treasure is hidden higher than 5,000 feet above sea level.”

            I’m not sure what your getting at. That quote is not in the poem & I will eat my hat if anyone finds it in there.

          • Jake: you left out the 2 important words “you need.” Yes, some helpful information that Fenn has supplied over the years is not found in the poem such as the altitude range, the four states left in play, the map with the highlighted area in TFTW, no graveyards, no mines, no caves, no outhouses, no structures, etc. But those are *extra* clues/hints. Forrest has repeatedly said that everything you *NEED* to find the treasure is in the poem (in addition to the right map, of course). You know the quote, but I’ll supply it for completeness anyway:

            β€œDear Mr. Fenn, We are a group of avid elderly bridge players in San Diego who after reading your book hope to find your treasure. We are not into poetry as much as the memoir. We realize the clues are in the poem, but were wondering if there isn’t at least one clue in each chapter. Thank you for a great book. Sincerely, Emily”

            β€œEmily, All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search. f”

          • β€œEmily, All of the information (places) you need to find the treasure is in the poem (Directions – Map). The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search. f”

            That’s how I see it.

          • Very straight forward JCM.
            Saw your link again & I do care.
            You have offered a great deal of factual info to the chase to uncloud the murky.

            Yea, some of his statements are not clear by design but some hit you on the head with a hammer. You have lot’s of those but some heads keep moving around before the strike.

      • Fenn has said a lot about where the treasure is (ex.between 5000-10200ft, north of Santa Fe) but he has said little about the where the clues are for all we know they can be outside of the high lighted area on the map from TFTW or below 5000 ft or above 10200ft. Where might we find the location to the clues? In the poem! The biggest mistake I see is people are looking for the location of the chest and not the first clue, which we all know the first clue can be identified from the poem.

  34. I have been thinking about – take the chest and go in peace – I have read where people have asked – how can you take the chest and go in peace in the middle of the poem – when there are more clues- back in the days all the treasure chests were made of wood – so would it not mean to take it in the wood and go in peace – sense its the blaze and next is in the wood – just a thought and an opinion

  35. I think the first clue has to do something with the title of the poem or the lack there of in the book.

    I mean look at the poem he wrote for Peggy, he titled it. Why did he not title his
    poem in the book. Why did he do that?

    • UA

      Back in February, there was a post called, “Forrest Gets Mail From a Middle School.” where-in Forrest answers your question.

      Here is the quote,”Did you name the poem The Thrill of the Chase?
      No. I forgot to name it.”

      It might be helpful to read all of the questions and answers. It was for me. JDA

      • thanks for your reply JDA.

        However, he did not forget to title it on his web page. He titled it “THE POEM” but in the book he skipped that. That is what I am wondering about.

        • I believe on his website, it’s shown as “The Poem” so that searchers will make the connection of what is shown and to the treasure chest. This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

  36. There are “subtle” hints in TTOTC that can help solve the clues….
    Subtle- indirect, not obvious, clever, contrived, beguiling, hard to notice, cagey, difficult to perceive, elusive, cunning, ingenious, dodgy, artful….the list of synonyms and definitions is long and clearly indicates (to me), keeping in mind Fenn has said these hints were NOT intentionally placed; that these hints are conceptual or based on the man and how he acts or thinks. I find it hard to believe that an individual chapter(story) itself is a hint as a whole, or the places mentioned within. That just seems too obvious and not subtle at all. An intentionally placed photo or story about fishing or swimming or bathing in a particular location screams OBVIOUS to me and does not seem to be that creative.
    The idea of using Only the poem to solve the clues is definitely a hard nut to crack, especially taking into consideration how often Fenn stressed that early in the Chase. I believe his intentions then were to say clearly that the poem was the most important thing to focus on. With the large quantity of interaction Fenn has had since then it seems he has had to back track a bit to squelch certain trains of thought(out houses, caves, dams etc..) that folks even to this day still talk about. The SB’s are fun to see as a guide to the man and his storied life experiences, but I am leery to read into them searching for direct HINTS. There are many who bank on the premise that everything he says is an encrypted message or hint and shower him with praise and thanks for telling them individually what to think or do next. Delusional is what that is. I believe the man at his word. He has made it perfectly clear that he is ambivalent, and will not lead anyone along or astray. Period. Don’t get me wrong…he may have tossed a few easy to misinterpret ideas or words that tie in with the poem’s wording, but, actual guidance, I seriously doubt that. I look at it all like blood in the shark filled waters. A frenzy begins and then the hiatus when the water clears. Is there a possibility that I am way off base? Sure there is, but not from what I have seen and learned along the way. That’s PURELY my take on these matters….

    • I like the way you explain this, Ken.
      One of the problems I have is, distinguishing the difference between a hint and a clue, as fenn calls everything a clue… So, if one reads, not in an outhouse as a said “clue” they might feel it’s important to the solve because it was “called” a clue. Not unlike a flashlight and a sandwich, which some solves revolve around… even after fenn said they are certainly not clues.

      But, we do have a book that we’ve been told should help with the clues. My main question is, how do we perceive the hints as useful until we have some kinda understanding of what the poem is relaying?

      Is it the mind set of the reader that thinks we need to look for hints about the author himself { finding fenn } or do we look at geography as the main subject, etc.
      How are the subtle, not direct, not to aid or any other term… usable if we don’t have an idea of how to read the poem as intended by fenn.

      We now know [ as fact ] that the poem is a map… what we don’t know is what “details” that map holds { those still need interpretations }. One simple example is; one reader sees searchers needing to travel down into a canyon, some unknown miles into one, or even drive around one. Another reader sees the waters that enter the canyon. Either could be correct…however… how do we decipher where??? this all take place.

      IMO… this information leans toward the comments… need to know where to start and need to start at the beginning. So..lol… that question is perplexing for the reasoning;
      Is fenn telling us “where” in the poem and is it a clue?
      Did fenn tell us “where” in the book {TTOTC} and doesn’t consider it a clue, but a fact?

      We have been told…All the information to “find the treasure” is in the poem… Those seem to be the ‘clues’ that lead us to that 10′ sq spot.
      But, “*Your destination is small, but its location is huge.”
      Where do we find the “huge location” reference to get us started?
      Example; fenn was supposed to have said… YSP is a region, wwwh is more specific [ paraphrasing ]
      IF so, it would seem wwwh might not be the place to start, but could be the first clue…or… there is a clue prior that tells us where the correct wwh { out of the many } is in a certain area.

      There is another option that, all the waters are meant as one in the same, covering a large area but known as a smaller feature over that large area.

      It seems to be all about perspective of the reader vs. the intent of the author.

      Do those “subtle hints” help with deciphering the actual clues individually or help with deciphering / understanding the poem as a whole? ~ I think it might be important to how the poem is read or intended as to be read.

      • The map to the treasure is a riddle presented as a poem. That’s my new description to stay on track.
        Your “problem”…clue/hint…hint/clue was one that plagued me, and sometimes still does. My logic to that one is to remind myself that Fenn has repeatedly told us there are nine clues “in the poem” that will lead to the treasure. After that…we can call all else whatever we want…but the only “clues” that count are in the poem. Anything that pops out along the way to help, to me, is a hint. The Today clues are just extra stuff that he handed us on a platter…but the important clues are still “in the poem”.
        His latest about solving the riddle in the poem indicates that this is a conceptually themed mind teaser that is hand crafted by a unique guy with a ton of knowledge about a wide variety of subjects. It may turn out to be a scrambled mix-match of a bunch of concepts/ideas that he personally has experienced with, hence all of the wide mix of stories he has shared. I have my theories and continue to move along….

        • Ken, you brought up a couple of things, one being the Today shows clues, saying ~ ‘The Today clues are just extra stuff that he handed us on a platter…”
          which sounds like you consider them clues, Unless I’m reading you wrong. Yet, fenn himself called the useless clues… which started a landslide, at that time lol.

          The other thing you brought up was the comment of the poem being a riddle… yep… that one kicked me in my good intentions. Especially with the warning comment fenn stated years back;
          β€œSome searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, ***riddles,*** drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f” 

          So, whats the deal here??lol. Are we now supposed to know toponymy as well?

          Wouldn’t ya love to know fenn’s definition of “riddle” at this point…
          But to be fair… the comment above was written by fenn and I’m sure he took time to review it, as to, the comment stated in the interview was off the cuff and verbal. I mean, fenn has been recorded saying ~ he ‘buried’ the chest, yet has never confirmed such… only refers to hidden.

          I think we need to keep in mind one other comment fenn has made; “I reserve the right to be wrong once in a while.”

          It’s a human fact thing…

          • Seeker…there ain’t no clues( that are essential) anywhere but the poem. He has been pretty darned clear on that. But, in view of all of the inconsistencies that come to light as time goes by…maybe that is a misnomer too.
            The Today Show days were certainly entertaining and many folks ran right out the door after viewing the worthless clues…sure that they now had the missing link. For some, as recently witnessed, great stock is still put in those tidbits. My take on that info and other things he has shared, varies. For sure he felt he needed to keep folks from digging up outhouses.
            He ruled out dams to even things up after saying too much on the side. The elevations, more than 5k less than 10.2k are handy check points, but none of this chaff is a clue “in” the poem,
            I’m in this thing for the long haul, good or bad. I’m having a grand time challenging myself to get it done. And time is not a factor. None of the 200′ or 500’ers even knew what was happening at the time, and obviously still don’t…so slow and easy is the smart ride. Riddle is the word of the week for me….

    • Hats off to Ken & Seeker,
      Man, what a great synopsis of how to interpret hints and clues, take a bow fellas.
      It’s comforting knowing someone is looking out for us, we appreciate everything you deep- thinkers do for us.
      Who are you calling smug?
      Actually, I meant, glad that you’re not working on, nor testing any theories, otherwise we all might be in trouble.

      Seeker, I would love to email you clue 1, (and I probably will) for no other reason just to witness the transformation. Not because I want you to ‘clam up’…no I suspect your whole calm- reasoning demeanor will crumble away, turn you search-crazed like the rest of us

      • He already knows. Ive alluded to him in the past. If he paid it any attention or simply glanced over it is unclear. I lean towards the first. He doesnt miss much and maintains keel. Many underestimate seeker imo. But i know…no…have a hunch and we all know what that is worth.
        ic in tight focus the word that which is key.
        oops that slipped……again

  37. Read the Poem. Clues and hints. The hints are a retrospection – I know you will all say the Clues are consecutive but the next line tells you what is before this clue. How Clever of FF. I have read this Poem over and over again, and learned that the follow up line might be telling us of the location, not the route to go. IMHO

  38. The Poem= Moth pee. Anagrams can be very helpful. Moth pee is one of the most powerful cleansers on Earth.

    • How do you get their tiny legs apart to place a cup between them?

      I’ve tried for years, but have not been successful at any attempt.

      Is there a secret word I need to whisper them to get them started?


      • very interesting Sparrow, that moth-pee is great for washing hands/face etc..

        but did you know that it’s soooo effective at cleaning, that it’s now a vital ingredient for many international money-launderers world-wide? ..but sshhh

        (oh wait! ..is that a guy in a trench-coat walking up my drive-way?? ..and what’s he holding in his ha

  39. Have they opened that lake up by Durango yet? So people can go around there searching? It was opened when Glenn was hiding his loot.

        • The one they built about the time fenn planted the treasure. I think it is namEd lake night horse. They are trying to open it up to recreation. But not yet.
          Google it. Interesting findings in the archeological digs before the lake was built.

          • Yep, Lake Nighthorse (reservoir).

            The Blue Mesa – Sacred Ridge site that got covered by the waters is the largest known Pueblo I complex (pre-Chaco).

            If you’re interested in this kind of thing, see the second edition of Stephen Lekson’s fascinating book “The Chaco Meridian.”


          • That sacred ridge massacre was definitely no place for the meek, huh? Now what about warm waters halting. Has anyone looked at Pinkerton hot springs? The warm-not hot Water – seeps back into the earth. Was built right before fenn hid the treasure. The clue was not there in his youth but the warm water halting there was.

          • Will,
            Had a blast in Colo last year, be sure to take an old geezer along with you.

            Seriously any senior citizen can buy the lifetime “america the beautiful’ pass for just 10 bucks.
            You save half or more at campsites, not to mention, having an an old person along might keep you from wandering off too far.

  40. J Smith,
    I would have to disagree…..

    Hello Forrest,

    If in 500 years all a person has is the poem, and no back story: they don’t know β€œin the rocky mountains north of santa fe” or that there are 9 clues etc. Could a person reasonably just use the words in the poem and find your treasure chest?

    Thank you ~Nope
    Thank you Nope. Nope. f

    • 500 years is an important factor in this question posed to Forrest. I believe that certain elements linked to the poem would have deteriorated by 500 years from now.

      To me, the most obvious element would be the blaze. If the blaze is on a tree, a tree stump, a fallen log, etc. Forrest would know that there would be no chance of one using the poem to find the treasure 500 years from now.

      The “home of Brown” is possibly another element that may deteriorate within 500 years from now. I believe this to be true.

      The above are only assumptions based on an alternate way of looking at Forrest’s response to this question.

      Here’s another idea: why would Forrest release a poem as a riddle to solve in order to find a treasure if he only intended to ration out supplemental clues afterwards? It does not make sense to me. His statement about how he felt like an architect making the poem implies that he created a tight composition in his poem and was happy with the result.

      So yes, call me a poem purist, but I believe that the treasure location can be found using only the poem and map data, because that would be how I think Forrest intended it to be when he wrote the poem.

      In my opinion, a lot of the supplemental clues that Forrest released after the poem over the years fall into 2 categories:

      1.) “Idiot mitigation”: Don’t go digging up graveyards. Don’t go looking in outhouses. Don’t go looking in the drainage or foundations of a dam/hydroelectric plant. The treasure is 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe. Etc.

      Forrest recently stated how surprised he was at how many crazy people jumped into the Chase, and these types of clues are meant to keep crazy people from doing very stupid things, like showing up at the front door of his home or getting arrested for digging up his parents’ coffins.

      2.) “Time savers”. The treasure is not in Utah or Idaho. The treasure is between 5,000 and 10,200 feet above sea level. The treasure is not close to any human road or trail. Etc.

      These clues are acts of generosity on Forrest’s part. IMO, I believe that these are supplemental clues where Forrest is being nice enough to say to certain Chasers: You are so “cold” from the correct solution that you really should not even bother. I believe that this stems from Forrest’s regret of not anticipating certain interpretations of his poem and that he gets frustrated from hearing about Chasers being so far off in left field, that he wants to toss out some additional clues just to save people some potentially wasted time.

      That’s how I’m digesting all of the information that Forrest has given to us on the whole. As always, I could be totally wrong, but I believe that if there is any one thing from Forrest that Chasers need to focus on, it is the poem. Why release the poem in the first place if it were not so?

      • Blex. I like all that you say here and I will add my two bits. I do think that all the information one needs to find the chest is in the poem and the poem is a map-just as FF has said. Not to say But and sound as if I am being contrarian ,I will not intend to use the word But. I will say the word Also instead. More information is also needed in addition to the poem in order to have a chance to solve the riddle. I am of the analytical opinion that FF understood this at the inception and conclusion of the poem. Therefore, I think he intended to add more through conversation amidst the planning, progression and interest in this chase. I think he does so by speaking in riddles in his continued storytelling on this blog postings such as SB’s and on MW. To me, the difference from a non hint assisting story and a story with intended hints is the riddle styled story. Ones that seem to be strange and almost out of sync with his normal story telling topics or events, also though not to discount ones that are in sync normal. It’s when he is of a rather poetic theme in the story that I pay attention to those ones in more depth. I am one that really needed more than the poem and his books. Once I am able to have a better understanding of the literary angle of style of the poem/map, am I able to figure out a starting point. Once I have a starting point then I could understand the poem/map better accordingly. It sure helped when FF gave the 4 states also. All one needs is the poem whence one understands the literary style and starting point.

        With all that I have read and watched of FF speaking I think I understand what and why he means a word that is key. The word is in the poem IMO, and with a couple other literary clues towards that key word statement he supplied known or unbeknownst to observers, it also unlocks the literary riddle style. With that being said, his SB’s and such will help surmount the difficulty of the poem-“why didn’t I think of that ” scenario . I know that there are persons that will hardheartedly disagree with what I think here, though I do think he planned and intended hints through riddle speak and writing going forward in time with this chase-even more so than his books. IMO, it is a way of progressive involvement with this venture well intended. The difficulty of the poem itself would create interest and desire for more information-which it has. IMO

        I think that the poem/map clues will stand the test of time accordingly-both in the nature of past ,present and future. I toggled between many different key words and then through FF’s numerous Q&A’s , SB’s and other themes then did I have a key word conclusion which unlocked the poem, made sense to me and tied in the poem as a map and all its literary symbology for me to actually think I have a solve and even a location idea. I just think the poem,riddle peak,SB’s are not to be approached in dogmatic, purist or in all things literal in anything said past, present or in future writs or say.

        IMO, he has given extra hints towards the key word ( I can think of 3 instances) . The meaning of the keyword, what the blaze is ect. All in his continued communication IMO. So yes, I believe he has given supplemental information that would help unlock the riddle of the poem as a map. The “what are we missing”, is the noticing-perhaps? IMO of course.

        • I hear you, Alsetenash and well said. There’s a wide range of interpretation with the Chase. No one is going to know for sure what Forrest’s method of clue-giving is/was exactly until the treasure chest is actually found.

          I arrived at my solve using only the poem and map data, but of course that doesn’t mean a hill of beans if my solve is wrong. If I come up empty this summer, I’ll definitely share my failed solve to at least demonstrate how one could determine a location using only the poem, and without having to “mess with it” either.

          And if I DO find the treasure, well in that case I’ll share my solve as well! πŸ˜‰

      • Alsetenash~ “More information is also needed in addition to the poem in order to have a chance to solve the riddle…Therefore, I think he intended to add more through conversation amidst the planning, progression and interest in this chase…” {Reference to SBs / Q&As and internet blogs}

        While it may seem this way to some.
        The one fact that remains is, from the start and a few years into the thought, fenn was planning on going to his final resting place. Although later, he recovered and ruined the original plan of doing that… the idea was, at some point in time, if he was to become ridden with another/same disease, to carry out the same plan. { these are things fenn talked about…}

        I find the thought that, fenn changed the original thought… and now adding the “need for more information” in addition to what we all had available from the start and the presentation to the public of the challenge { one, mom n pop, book store }… a bit hard to swallow. I mean, if not for a couple journalist who kick started the medias interest, in small articles, only those who bought the book would know about it.

        How would fenn plan for this to happen? Plan / “Intended” to add anything, other than the original information.
        Doesn’t that simply send us on a wild goose chase to assume, more information needed… to come along eventually. ~ don’t touch that dial or change the channel, more to come, after a brief message from our sponsors.

        Kinda sucked { “have a chance” } for those first searchers who ‘only had the book and the poem within’ to start with.

        I can’t see, as you stated; “he ‘intended’ to add more…”

        imo, an opportunity came about for fenn to join in on his own creation of the challenge, and was presented by others {such as Dal’s and Jenny’s blogs ~ ATF}. He’s just going along for the ride at this point…

        • I agree Seeker. The poem started with an ambiguous phrase that would have been useless in finding the treasure. I think that as the chase gained in popularity he decided to play along and add more and more hints. He has made it easier for us without giving away too much.

        • Seeker. Thanks for your response, for I intended the potential that you would respond. At the end of my writ I said – ‘The β€œwhat are we missing”, is the noticing-perhaps? IMO of course.’ This was aimed at you because you had said that a few times!

          This is a good example of what I mean by Intent, the Intent is the Potential! So, the intent and potential are harmonious in thought process. This is what I am speaking of when I say I think FF intended more information would be needed as a foreseen potential going forward with the poem.

          He had his original plan as he has said and is often quoted. His plan changed due to his circumstances changing. He changed his poem from the original also due to this change. He had his original intent-Hide the chest with his bones, poem as a map and books that have some hints not purposefully placed.

          It may appear that more information given by him later is not fair to the earlier interested searchers. He added the narrowing to the 4 states and other tid bits in Q&A’s ect. Being fair or disadvantaged to the earlier searchers is an opinion perspective of oneself perhaps notwithstanding . I think he saw the potentials very strongly ,though the start of this was done very quietly and slowly. Every person relates to others according to their own perspective and interpretations.

          I believe he does and has given added intel in his SB’s and other communications. One notices it or not, one believes it or not. His SB’s and such have helped me enormously. Of course I have no form of justification nor proof of my thinking comparing what I say to his past quotes. Though for me, these have helped me enormously through subtleties . It is for me-, ” ah, get it now” . This has also affirmed that all you need is the poem, a good map and that the poem is a map . The more information needed that I speak of, is the literary style learnings he teaches by his stories ect. These helped me figure out my ‘key word’ that unlocks the poem and then the blaze. Then , for me, the whole poem from beginning to end made sense. It really does trigger the imagination to see it in such a way ,where as being dogmatic and rigid would cause blinding to the missing link! This is all of course, my opinion. Being open to change is not changing the past, it is just seeing things differently than the way we interpret the past as being finite.

          • Alsetenash,
            I’m picking up what your putting down, don’t think I haven’t thought the same in the past… As to… “indecision is the key to flexibility”… ruining the story by recovering, line of thinking.

            But that doesn’t change the fact of the information provided at the time of the release of the book to be inadequate, incomplete, or more information would be “Needed” as add on later.

            IMO, most of the after the facts { in what every venue they were presented} have been -in part- elimination factors… which does seem to help with clues themselves. And common sense line of thought for anyone taking on the challenge. Such as; looking at maps, looking at words and usages, using the book as reference, and yes, just by reading the poem once, geography looks to be involved etc… and while helpful to keep one from traveling down the path of ‘guessing’… are those or any comments actually needed to solve the clues within the poem?

            I’m not saying that knowing of these after the fact pieces of information are not helpful… I’m saying they, more than likely, are not part of a bigger, needed, extended, continuing, prior planned for later dated execution, to the public.

            If that was remotely correct or planned… we sit here now not knowing if all the needed pieces have presented, Right? If another SB or another Q&A or another interview comes out tomorrow or next year, is that saying we didn’t have what we needed to solve the poem today or in 2010?

            I’m just not buying into the thought. It doesn’t make any sense.
            Fenn was asked if he planned anything [ hints and clues ] after his death..answer, No. So what happens if that proverbial bus comes along today… did fenn get all that, later planned, needed information out so the poem is now solvable? or are we out of luck at that point.

            The one comment you seem to be overlooking, fenn stated about, after hiding the chest {in many interviews}, is:
            In part ~ “It’s out of my hands”

            The other part of this theory that there was plans to bring to light information later… would be; either the “hope” that someone would open a blog dedicated to the chase for SB’s Q&A’s {as you indicated before} etc. or the other, those who did would need to be in on it.

            You can believe what ya like, but sorry bud, it doesn’t make a lick of sense to me.

          • Seeker. What I am pointing out here is the focus of Literary, literary insight.Which are hints or insights to his perspective of writing . I am talking about Literary, not the literal hints or clues (in his SB’s ect ) in his stories as for in the poem.IMO

            Now what I mean by he intended the potentials of the future of added information, is that of literary! This is what is missing is what I am saying or better to say-overlooking! His poem is a map; his map is a literary map that if followed precisely will lead right to the chest-literally. To me it is not much about learning about the man’s life and times in his writings to understand the poem. It is about his artisan style, method and expressions he uses in his stories. The key word is a word; it is literary! It unlocks the the poems literary persona (figuratively/allegorical) relationship to the physical observations of the poetic map. IMO

            What I mean when I say he intended the potential of being asked and prodded in the future for more information about his poem/map and treasure; I mean as in literary. This doesn’t pre-thought the means of say by TV, blogs or any other medium of interest; just that it would naturally happen by whatever form it would take. IMO

            An art collector can identify the artist of a painting due to their style (artistic persona) without looking at the artist signature on the painting. After seeing many of the artists artwork productions the collector can easily identify the artist. This is what reading all of FF’s blog stories, interviews and Q&A’s are-new information in the literary artists style. These are the hints to insight of his poem/map meanings. IMO

            Here is an example of what I mean of his literary style and purpose of stories he gives on SB’s and such, that I see as insight/hints to understanding his clues in the poem/map-via literary.

            Scrapbook 178- Graciella .

            Pony Ault could instantly Identify Robert Henri’s painting having not ever seen the painting before.
            FF titled the paining Graciella
            When researched Henri’s paintings it is actually called Florencia .

            The names Graciella (Graciela) and Florence mean the same-they mean Flowering! He chose Graciella not the actual name of the painting though they meaning the same in name. In the end of the SB writ, he sat down and read the bible deciding to capitulate to Pony. This is a literary insight. This is but one example of style,purpose and meaning he is giving to his literary meanings.

            I am not saying this example was a preplanned form from poem inception to the future now as a hint. It is an example of how he gives insight to his writing, what to focus on and assistance towards interpretation. I am saying he just knew he would be telling more stories in the future. Kind of a natural thing he would do IMO.

            Understanding him literary will lead to a literal understanding of his literary map. Past , present or future thoughts are just potentials through intent.

            Be open, be imaginative.Poetry and writings are a literary map to literal understandings. IMO

          • Edit; which does seem to help with clues themselves.
            Should read as; “doesn’t”

          • That’s a 180 deg turnaround.
            I am not sure if I’m coming or going….

          • Seeker — in my opinion, the poem was solvable on its own from the very beginning, which I think is a line of thought that you’d agree with. (There’s that pesky preposition at the end of the sentence!) As you point out, all of Fenn’s formal “clues” that have come out since the poem are clues of elimination. Sure, they’re nothing to sneeze at: general mountains reduced to Rocky Mountains; Canada, Utah and Idaho eliminated; significant altitude restrictions, and so on. But it’s still a big area, and these add-on clues don’t tell you where to look — they tell you where NOT to look. So they filter out some crappy solutions (no pun intended).

            Where your views and mine diverge is that you don’t believe Forrest has supplied hints in the Scrapbooks or MW Q&A, and that there are less than a handful of hints in each of TTOTC and TFTW. But that’s fine. The important thing is that the poem and a map are sufficient to solve it.

          • The endless loop that the clues are found in the poem, I think, is understood. To my knowledge, everyone gets that. The treasure is also in the rocky mountains. I get that. But I might add that the poem nor Mr Fenn, to my knowledge ever said ALL of the CLUES are in the rockies north of Santa Fe. Please correct me if I missed that. Thanks and all the best.

          • You were headed north & then headed south.
            You were correcting a typo which you normally don’t do.

            Does & doesn’t are opposites in direction when….
            Never mind, you know the time of day when it’s dark.

          • lol, ok… simple typo. But with this particular word meant, as you said, makes a 180 degree difference.

            Normally I don’t proof read my comment… most get, that typos are a common place when blogging a quick reply… that is why I quote fenn so much… don’t listen to me, listen to him.

          • Alsetenash – I would side with Seeker’s position on this:

            “My Thrill of the Chase book is enough to lead an average person to the treasure. f” 6/27/2014

            The poem is in the book (i.e. nine clues in the poem that will take you precisely to the treasure), and there are hints in the book that will help you to figure out what the clues mean. f has been like a broken record emphasizing this point from the beginning and has repeated this thought more times than I want to go back and count.

            IMO, if you can’t figure out where the chest is using just the book (this would obviously include turning to a good map and using/studying it once you have figured out or learned where the first clue is) then I do not believe a person is going to get the job done using additional comments and scrapbooks.

            Don’t get me wrong, I very much believe that his additional comments and statements are invaluable for finding the chest (rules things out, clearly explains how to go about the search, etc.), but they are not going to be what gets me there at the end of the day, that will be the nine clues in poem and understanding what they mean.

            And what evidence do we have that the book and poem can get a person there to the place where the chest sits waiting? Some searchers were able to figure out the first two clues and stop within several hundred feet of the chest within about 18 months of the TOTC book release. This happened long before we had the majority of the comments, the book TFTW, and other scrapbooks and responses from f.

          • JCM. Thanks for the response. I am not in disagreement that all you need is the poem a good map and his books to solve the 9 clues in the poem. That is possible and I do agree in the possibility . What I am getting at here is I think there is additional literature from FF that has helped me and new stories have as much merit to the chase as do the books. He has said that there are some hints in his books, sprinkled I think he said( read that somewhere) and not purposely placed . I think there is literary hints/insights sprinkled in many of his stories here and elsewhere.

            Yes, he said that searchers may have figured out the first 2 clues but walked right past the remaining clues-some as close as 200 and 500 ft. This was within the first 2 years of the poems release as you said. So, this has locked in the thinking that all you need is the poem , a good map and his books to solve the riddle of 9 clues. Nothing of post written stories will aid the searcher ect. I get the reasoning of this but I think differently.

            I think that some of the stories he has written since also help in literary understanding of the writing style and writer of the poem. Solving the 2 clues and not the rest of the clues because they walked right past the chest doesn’t mean they actually solved the first 2 clues from my interpretation of what was said:

            Forrest: “Nobody is going to happen on that treasure chest. You’re going to have to figure out the clues in the poem and go to it. There are several people that have deciphered the first two clues. I don’t think they knew it because they walked right on past the treasure chest. I’m not going to tell those people who they are because one of them particularly would faint I know and tear the countryside up trying to figure out where they’d been. It’s an opportunity to … Doesn’t have any downsides I think. Everybody wins if you go out looking for it. Another question?”

            Just because someone was somewhere doesn’t mean they were there for the purpose of searching for the chest and solved the first 2 clues. As stated in above quote. Does that quote mean they actually solved the first 2 clues or not?

            All opinions are good and insightful.

          • Al, I believe he said something to the affect that he knows the people that were close got the first clues right because they emailed him their solves.

            I think you make a great point about his literary hints. I think just reading different things from him helps me pick up on his literary style which gives me a hint on what he might mean from things that he wrote in the poem. Words having different meanings for him seems to be really important in working through this poem just as they are in his other writings.

          • Thanks Aaron. I remember reading or watching an interview where he mentioned they emailed him their solves but walked right past the other clues.

          • Hello Alsetenash. In “The Thrill of The Chase,” page 133:

            ‘There are also other subtle clues sprinkled in the stories.’ …

          • (Second try.) TTOTC, page 133, ‘There are also other subtle clues sprinkled in the stories.’ …

          • Hi Bob — I believe you are correct that Forrest has never said that all 9 clues (or 11 if you’re Tim ;-)) are in the Rockies somewhere north of Santa Fe. In fact, I believe based on what Forrest has said and written that the only requirement is that Indulgence is. Some might reasonably conclude that at least the last several clues must be in the Rockies, otherwise how could Forrest navigate you in the few remaining clues from a spot outside the Rockies to the precise location of the chest? That said, I can think of at least one way that NONE of the clues could be in the Rockies and yet Forrest could direct you to a precise spot that was. However, I think most would agree that this would fall into the shenanigans or tomfoolery department.

            In my opinion, the answers to all of the clues are places within the highlighted portion of the Rockies in the TFTW map.

          • Hi Zaphod,
            Thanks for the note. I agree with what you have written. Are you sharing your search state here? I am moving away from NM because I’ve exhausted everything I can think of there. Tesla is perking my curiosity with the key word thing but that’s another topic. He may be on to something. I’m interested in a place in Wyoming but am struggling with the word “warm”. Where does “warm” begin? 33 degrees? 100 degrees? If warm means above freezing my start would fit like a glove. If not, I may get the award for spending more time getting nowhere than anyone else on the blog. Have already sent my associate to New Mexico and came up empty. All the best

          • Bob.

            β€œMany have given serious thought to the clues in the poem but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key.”


          • Bob..lol…Now why would I divulge my key word. I may feed pigeons but I am not that kookoo, haha.

            Basically for me it is like this. I have my solve, my ideas of what the clues are , what they mean and what they might look like. I have a location I have isolated and focused on in concert of all things above said considered . But the way I work with these types of investigations, I require a stress test of my theory or a type of experiment that has a control to it. I lacked that stress test experimental to proceed from theoretical to practical. This brought me to that quote by FF about the word that is key. I didn’t have a word that is key. I couldn’t grasp a word nor what the word of such importance would mean or reasons for such a value of a word that is key. I know it is of great importance just by FF making that type of statement about a word. So, I didn’t have a word; a word of such importance.My confidence of solving the poem lacked a stress test that is the word that is key. No matter what I think I have concluded, I was without having nor justified a word that is key. To me this is the ultimate in confidence factor-I didn’t have it.

            So, I focused on this ‘word that is key’. I simply just had a thought , not a word, but a thought. I investigated all I could based on this thought. Through that I found my word that is key and all fell into place of support of what I already thought-cemented confidence! Thus, I was able to stress test my theory through literary experimentation. Confidence manifested. So, I drove from Canada to the USA to check my spot and the area had snow right where I wanted to go to but no where else was there snow. I couldn’t search there.,so I came back home. So, basically what I am saying is that, for me , above all else ; if I didn’t have a key word inclusion with strength and justification in my solve, my solve was not strong enough for confidence. No matter what I think I know, if I didn’t have the word that is key concluded and supporting my solve, I had nothing.

            To me the key word is the most important thing FF has said pertaining to any solve. So no, I would not divulge my key word nor why it is the key word:). All this is just my opinion.

          • Bob,

            β€œMany have given serious thought to the clues in the poem but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key.” FF

            That is a FF quote. I missed adding that .

          • Zap,
            You call the after the facts hints, some call them clues, some don’t even let the comments register but ignore them all together.

            I simply call them informative. How someone decides to use them is a horse of a different color. But no, I don’t think they are deliberate to help in the solve… more thought provoking as a guide.

            Such as fenn eliminating areas or states… what we have { like you mentioned } is the remaining for states for the chest to lay in wait. But that says very little about what clues could refer to or even if a clue is out-side the area of the search for the chest.
            Note; important to understand the area of the chest [or provided map] is only about the chest… at least, at this point in time.

            Although I will say, it’s more than likely the first two clues are within the ‘area’~ reasoning being is that, searchers have indicated / deciphered the first two clues… and… walked by the other remaining clues.

            But there is a slight chance the first two clues might be slightly out-side that area… and/ or a slight chance a middle clue is out-side the areas {to a small degree} and another clue brings a searcher back to the area of where the chest lays in wait.

            But the more I have thought about it… those slight chances… the more I don’t think its that plausible.

            Then again, the first two clues comment was very early in the challenge, So maybe those clues could be Idaho or Utah or Canada. Folks were all over the western state looking at that time.

            Could be why we haven’t heard about more clues being ‘actually’ deciphered.

            That’s about as open minded as I can get.

          • Hi Seeker: one thing you do not suffer from is a lack of inclusiveness in your poem ponderings. πŸ˜‰ But I think the lack of triage may actually be preventing you from making better progress (though how does one measure progress in a case like this?) If you don’t mind my saying so I think you focus too much on the 200-foot question and being mystified how in the world a searcher
            could be that close and blow past the clues beyond those first two. IMO it’s because figuring out WWWH requires making a different sort of connection than does solving the clues that follow — 2 different skill sets. If true, this makes for a very effective bottleneck: the set of people that can reason out the first 2 clues has a small intersection with the set that can solve the 3rd (or beyond). So the first group gets close by solving those first 2 clues, but founders afterward, while the second group is even worse off, since having the right ideas about clue 3 but no guidance as to the correct area (provided by the first 2 clues) has them scouring all four states back-solving for WWWH. So I would say the first group has the upper hand, but they may be hampered by uncertainty that they even have the first 2 clues right.

          • Hi zap….would you consider yourself to be a first group or a second group person?….based upon your thinking.

          • Seeker

            fact – i’m pretty sure Zap ‘knows’ something vital

            fact – i’m pretty sure that water-boarding is still legal, somewhere

            question – are you adept and/or experienced at holding (and/or pouring) large buckets of water over long durations, per chance?

            ( ..i’ll hold him πŸ™‚ )

          • Tim: answer to your question is “yes”. πŸ˜‰ Just replace your “or” with an “and”.

          • Hi Bob: my search state has always been the same as the Georgia Gypsy’s. (And you’ll note she’s been very quiet of late, which tells you she’s probably been putting some miles on that F250 of hers!)

            “I am moving away from NM because I’ve exhausted everything I can think of there.”

            Of the four states, I figure NM has to have been hit the hardest, especially in the early years.

  41. Well, I finally made a BOTG trip this past weekend to my search area, so I am officially graduated from the armchair-search crowd and can now tick off “went on a real-life treasure hunt” off my list of lifetime achievements. If someone else ends up finding the treasure, I at least got to do one search in the Rockies beforehand as a result of Forrest’s Chase, so that’s pretty cool. πŸ™‚

    While I didn’t find the treasure, I still feel really good about my search area and hope to return as soon as possible. Here’s the thing: the snows were still too deep. I quickly recognized the unsafe conditions created by the snow and I swallowed my pride and decided to turn around and go back to hopefully return later in the season once these especially heavy snows melt. One unlucky posthole-step through the snow could easily have left me in the wilderness with a broken ankle. I know that I made the right decision, but the temptation to keep moving forward was also present when I was out there.

    I think that it’s likely that many other Chasers may find themselves in a similar situation as I was at some point, so I just wanted to share my experience to demonstrate that it’s important to periodically stop and evaluate your situation while searching (or hiking in general) in the Rockies, and that although it’s kind of a lame feeling to have to turn around and go home, it’s still the right, safe decision. Time your trips into the mountains well, and stay safe!

    • Blex

      Congratulations on your BOTG! YEA for you. Sorry that the snow stopped you from a thorough search, but be patient, and who knows what you may find. Good luck in your searches, and continue to TRY to be SADE! JDA

      • Thank you, JDA. I went on a few alternate hikes in the area afterwards, so it was still a nice excursion for me. A trip into the Rockies is never a waste of time!

    • Blex, I just read your story and it is a mirror of my story today. I did the same thing this weekend and had the exact same result lol. I checked all weather conditions and the areas ground snow as best as I could. The area was clear of snow at the elevation as I could best research. When I got there the area was clear of snow except my search area and just my search area. I couldn’t believe it! It all had to do with sun exposure. I too had to make the humble decision not to continue when I was so close to my spot. It was too dangerous to continue not knowing the land and the depth. I was so angry with myself that I went there from Canada here only to discover my search area had snow. I am past the anger at myself now .

      At least we kept our heads about it and made safe decisions . I could have waited a month or so but I couldn’t go other than now and may not be able to again this year, but who knows. It is amazing that only my area had snow and it was deep deep. Lessons learned. Lives are worth more and at least we tried.

      I too still feel confident about my spot and even more so than prior. At least I was able to see the area with a now better view and perspective than before I went. I expected to have different opinions from armchair to botg naturally due to the expected view differences. But what has happened is confidence has increased and my solve is still strong-that is most important. I wouldn’t have even tried if I wasn’t confident. I had a good drive and experience and would do it again in a hear beat. First time I ever did a USA road trip and land border crossing . Border crossing was easy and no problem both ways. Americans were a little testy of course because I am coming into the US. Going back into Canada being Canadian was smooth, easy and quick. So, any Canadians wondering about crossing -non what so ever for me if I had found the chest.

      • Glad I’m not the only one, Alsentenash! lol!

        I’m sorry that you made the long trip south only to turn back due to snow, but at least you returned home safely and made the right call. Hopefully you got to do some other fun stuff while you were down here to make the trip worthwhile. And at least it’s good that you at least got a confidence boost from visiting your area. Maybe once the snows melt, I’ll get confirmation that my solve is completely wrong, in which case I might be willing to team up if you can’t make it out a second time this year, and if you’re willing. No worries if not; we’ll see how this season goes!

        • I felt a lot better seeing I wasn’t the only one haha! Man, it was just a perimeter of 500 feet that had the snow, all around was clear! Of course it happened to be my spot!!!

          Another bright side for me is that I tested my lower back. For 2 years, up until two months ago, I couldn’t stand nor walk for very long-I was in constant pain. I had to quit my job to recover( not work related injury). I wanted to avoid surgery for I knew someone with the same injury had surgery. Recently I felt better,stronger and could now walk without pain but I am in really bad shape. So, I decided to go and search knowing I had to hike. I am fully recovered ,no surgery needed and I feel great. I almost passed out a couple times up in the elevation exerting myself lol. Heard some people let off some bear bangers lol. I would have been an easy meal for a bear haha. Going up there alone in there now I think it better to be with someone else now also. It is a safer area but there are many unsafe variables to consider now that I did botg. Next time I will contact you before I decide to go and we can possibly meet up. I don’t know if our search areas are close but I guess we would find out. The heck with with greed; greed kills, especially if one is a slower runner haha.


          • That’s impressive that you have been going through so much recovery and were able to make the journey to your spot, Alsentenash! Seriously, that’s an awesome story that you are feeling so much better after your pain trouble. I hope that you continue to feel better and on the up and up from here on out! Cheers indeed! πŸ™‚

      • Congratulations Alsetenash!
        Welcome to the USA! Sorry you did not find all that you sought, but glad that you had a good trip, here and back.

        Always remember to TRY and STAY SAFE JDA

        • Thanks JDA! I had a great trip all said and done. Disappointing was more the not being able to get to the spot. Had I been able to get to the spot and came up empty,would be less disappointing but oh well. Side note: It was funny talking to Americans when they ask “is it really that cold up there in Canada?” I would say it is cold in the winter in northern Canada . Other than that it is like Montana, Chicago or Boston. Then I would say, ” when you see our temperature listings in Canada it is in Celsius not Fahrenheit -just do the degrees conversion” lol.

    • Good move Blex….no amount of money is worth putting yourself into a hazardous place or position.

      There is plenty of time in life to succeed at what you want to do.

      This chase to me is also a bucket list check mark.

      Good luck to you on your next trip!

        • Thanks SL….yep…I always monitor the temperature for the region I am going to be searching. I’d rather not waste my time if there is snow on the ground.

          I really do think that FF has taken the steps to ensure there is safety on where he stashed this chest…..safe enough for all ages.

          And gives enough advice to show that he does care about who goes out looking.

          Safety should be the first priority for anyone seeking.

        • Thank you for the link, SL. I’ve made note of it. I have used wunderground.com most recently, and have found it accurate, too.

        • SL, weather forecasts are one thing, but determining snow levels are something different entirely. Even on a 60 degree day, there can still be 5 feet of “white pudding” in your search area. I did use all of the resources that were available, including webcams as Forrest suggested, but there are too many variables to be 100% certain that conditions are right. You may see bone-dry conditions in one spot, but in another there may still be a mountain of snow due to not getting a lot of sunlight.

          The best thing to do is to wait until smackdab in the middle of summer when one can be reasonably assured that all the snow has finally melted. But in the Chase, there’s also the factor of competition so there’s a good amount of trying to strike at the earliest possible moment. We take our chances and see how the die rolls, such as it is.

          I have a hunch that there is no webcam pointed in the general vicinity of the hidey spot, so some guesswork is involved.

      • Thanks, Tim! I’ve turned back on a lot of hikes to peaks in the Rockies in the past due to bad conditions (usually thunderstorms rolling in). The popular saying for those times is “The mountain’s not going anywhere!” In the case of the chest, I guess there IS the chance that it could go somewhere, which makes it a little more hard to swallow, but still the right decision!

        • I agree Blex.

          IMO – the quest is a hobby and something to pass some of my time.

          In truth….even when I am doing other things around the house, I’m still thinking about the poem……AAAAARRRGGGGHHH!!!


    • Blex & Alsetenash: congratulations on “getting off the couch,” giving it a shot, and joining the BOTG club. (I wonder what fraction of folks that have read Forrest’s poem have never gone searching for it?) Nice to read about searchers who also have their wits about them and make difficult but smart choices. I’m sure mountain rescue teams thank you and wish there were more of you.

      • Thanks, Zap! Hopefully it will just be one more month or so until I can finally claim that dang chest! πŸ˜‰

    • Blex – Alsetenash,
      Glad you both made a trip & made the right decision to not go further & put ones self in harms way.
      My hat is off to you new guys.

      Some of us here use this great tool to give you an idea of how much snow is on the ground: http://www.nohrsc.noaa.gov/earth/
      Zoom Earth is also helpful if the sat pic is taken with no or few clouds: https://zoom.earth/#45.04887,-110.975351,9z,sat,am,2017-04-16

      Both these sites are helpful along with weather details & USGS site to give you an idea of river flows & height.

      Thanks to the folks that posted these links here some time ago.
      Forrest, please note this is not for entertainment purposes.
      Safety 1st.

        • I agree 100%, pdenver! Forrest has done a very good job of warning people to stay safe.

        • Use them wisely Alsetenash,
          Everyone has failed on their 1st & last, but knowing the conditions will make it a blast.

          • Thanks Jake. I used that zoom and it shows no snow there lol. Just like my other sources also. Oh well., lessons learned. Just best to wait until at leased mid June I think.

          • Yea Alsetenash,
            Notice how low the clouds are to the ground.
            I guess you just don’t know till you go there & I’ll bet your glad you did.

            I have been to a few spots that I could absolutely exclude from where it is but I’ve been to a couple where I cannot cross off the list.

            Only one thing left to do.
            Go back when Mother Nature lets you if she does.

          • My wife just pointed out to me that there is currently forecasted a 90% of snow in Colorado Springs this Thursday.

            Patience is a virtue, but this is ridiculous.

          • Yea,
            Late spring snowstorm which we all didn’t want to see.
            I’m in Florida & been keeping an eye on the wacky weather in the Rocky’s.

            JDA’s area is getting more snow & there is about 80″ of snow there as I type.

            Mother Nature controls all.

          • There’s one thing that we need to follow & realize.

            The Earth & Mother Nature has been going through these cycles for millions of years.


  42. Jake, I drove from Arizona to Pocatello, on the 14th of May, on past to the West gate of Yellowstone, on to the geysers, on to Old Faithful, and there was no snow on the ground up to 7500 foot level. I went on to the south to Jackson Hole, and back to Arizona.

  43. Jake, the 14th, Sunday was a sunny day, I picked that day because I
    knew it was going to be some sun that day. I checked the weather
    up there. There can be plenty of snow yet, but when the temp is in the
    50 to 60 degree area, snow will not last long in 7500 ft or lower range.
    There was no snow in the Madison, Fire Hole river area, lots of snow up
    high on the mountains. That was on May 14th, what it is today, I do not know.

  44. Up thread JCM echoed pretty much what I ranted about w/Seeker May 14th. The gist of it for me boils down to the idea that the Poem was solvable from day one…or why the heck would Fenn put it out there and say it was? I would further add that later statements by Fenn that can be utilized as eliminator hints/clues…are most likely not even related to SOLVING the Poem. In fact..it is extremely likely that those bits of info may lead to nowhere in the ACTUAL solving of the Poem. That was the whole premise of my “subtle” hints post. Fenn has repeatedly said that he is ambivalent about the treasure being found…so why the heck would he throw all the supposed hints around that folks think he does. That sounds really deceptive and I do not believe Fenn is like that. I believe that if a solve is based on SB stories or any after the fact statements Fenn has made it is doomed before it starts. Burn me at the stake if you want…but I believe wishful thinking is not going to get the job done.

    • Ken. My solve is not based on SB’s though some have provided literary insight for me-especially the key word. The SB’s assisted me in my key word designation. With this assistance it made my solve make sense from theory to strong possibility. When I realized this and focused on it with that key word lens, I literally said to myself , “no way, you’re kidding me!” . My solve is not based of SB’s and such but they added on chemical ingredient to form cement, so to speak. IMO

      • In my ramblings about the above topic I did fail to admit that all of Fenn’s mutterings and writings are definitely key to understanding how he utilizes words and moves/omits punctuation as he chooses. This absolutely helps understand him a bit…but I believe he changes this up as he so chooses…intentional or not…who knows. So.. yes Alset I agree with you on that to a point. Really…that is the reason why I like reading his SB/stories and listening to him.
        Good luck on your journey and have a blast!

        • Ken .Thanks for the response . I just say what I think without intent to convince. The beauty of this chase is that all we are is just exchanging ideas until it is found.

  45. Just a reminder-
    Those of you around Santa Fe this Thursday, May 18th…

    Tomas Leach’s film about the search for Forrest’s Treasure…The Lure…is showing in Santa Fe…Forrest and many searchers will be in attendance…you can go too…

    A short clip from the film is here:

    and info for the showing in Santa Fe this Thursday is here:

    Lets fill the theatre up…

      • Disculpe estimado SeΓ±or Ken,

        ΒΏComo es que conozca tanto sobre el Don del Bosque?

      • sincere apols ken, for (un-intentionally) strongly suggesting that you might be slightly weird πŸ™

        i mean.. Zap’s crazy enough to be playin’ a leisurely round of golf on a lunar place (the moon) i s’pose, so….

        ( ..’jealousy detected!’ πŸ™‚ )

        • I am weird…I’m searching for a needle in a haystack. It’s like trying to pick specks of black pepper out of a cereal bowl with boxing gloves on…right…you know what I mean. huh.

        • oh, stop being so predictably depressing again. Ken-Von-Pear!! πŸ™

          ..as it so happens, i actually have a brilliantly cunning plan for us finding that elusive chest πŸ™‚

          (btw.. are you familiar, and/or experienced, with the modern art of ‘water-boarding’ per chance?)

          ( ..i think i know where Zap is hiding – it’ll be fun!!)

          • Well… Your Hobbitness, no depression here…except maybe a small one in my frontal lobe. I prefer electrical games myself…if you catch my drift. Zap is of no concern to me really. Seems like a affable character who might be a bit too “spacey” or “out there”…who knows, he may just find a cool rock or two when he searches. I likes my fun and have some planned for later in the Fall when I head out on the highway looking for adventure( and a wee little Bronze square thingy with shiny stuff in it).

    • agree x2!! ..esp the “packed theatre” bit

      ( ..not that i enjoy agreeing with ken or anything – given that he’s obviously weird and eternally grumpy)

  46. Ok folks, I need some help. In the recent interview of “on the road with Charlie” Forrest says there is a riddle to solve in the poem. Sounds like it is beyond the clues.

    Does anyone have quotes prior to that interview where Fenn references a riddle?

    Thank to anyone who can help.

      • Thanks for the link pd….

        I loved the last section…Anagrams….dreidl

        LOL…is FF Jewish…..hehehe…

        • In the book, he does state he whittled spinning-tops, but I don’t think those are the same kind. πŸ™‚

    • Twingem. I can’t help you with any quotes about the riddle to solve in the poem but I am aware of that being said and I believe I figured the riddle out. IMO. This is what is meant, in my opinion, by ‘a word that is key’. The word that is key leads to unlocking the riddle, which if figured out, unlocks the meaning of the clues in the poem-from literary to literal. It just popped in my head one day about a month ago lol. So, I did some research and to my uttermost shock, it fit like a glove within the poem . My solve was already harnessed in my mind and this just moved it beyond a theoretical reasonable doubt. The riddle is what is ,”what are we missing” . IMO.

      I tried every which way to discount the popped in my brain thingy but it stuck too well in common logic of my mind and application. All I can say is, if this is true in my thinking, this poem is work of literary genius. The key word unlocks a riddle that leads to understanding the clues and physical identification. Just amazing if true. Or I am completely out to lunch. IMO

      • I think it is not what is missing but rather “which” as in which one? My mainstay is a buffet of crow.

    • I was thinking of this the other day and wondered if “so why is it that I must go and leave my trove for all to seek?” is the actual riddle.

      • Sparrow, nice thought on that sentence. Sometimes a poem is a riddle in of its self. What I mean though as a riddle is more of the key word. The key word to me is the one word that is the riddle itself. Hard to explain without giving too much here lol. FF had said riddles won’t help as one description in a long list of things that won’t help like ciphers , head pressures ect. What I mean by riddle is the keyword opens the idea of another story within the poem. I don’t want to say parallel but a symbolic alignment with another story or theme. Not messing with the poem in any way. It becomes rather simple, that is the genius of it-complex but simple. That is if I am right anyways. Its a combined theme of a story that the key word identifies with-which makes the key word a riddle. I wish there wasn’t snow where I went to last week so I could have tested my final resolve of this grr!

        • I believe I am seeing the same thing. I have found a key word that changes the poem for me and now it suddenly makes more sense.

        • Wondering if we would agree on the key word? I have had a key word from the poem for quite a while now and the key word has led me to an area outside of the poem that I have been researching. It may lead me outside of the poem, but the info I gain leads me back to the poem with new insight leading to a greater understanding. This does not replace the poem, the poem is definitely what is needed for a solve. The new insight is akin to a light bulb going off and one has an aha moment … time after time. The chase is not over though ….. then it has to be proven that this is true with a perfect fit.

          Most important is to stay safe!


          • Lyzeebella. I agree with your thoughts on this. Pretty much the same as what I am thinking. The Key word leads to outside the poem,literary research wise, simply by discovery of its meaning. But it still is in the poem about the poem and not an act of straying from the poem. For me, as similar to what you say, it adds that piece of the puzzle that gives meanings. IMO

  47. Twingem, and others:
    IMO, the English language can be used to describe the poem as a riddle, or to suggest that we need to decipher the poem; however, IMO, these descriptions are not precise. I would describe the poem as a “complex verbal puzzle” that must be solved. And recently, F said, “…if you knew the geographic location of each clue it would be a map to the treasure.”
    Imagine that F joined the “riddle contest” between Bilbo and Gollum; the correct answer to F’s poem would not be a thing, but a location; and IMO, Bilbo and Gollum, like many of us, would quickly begin to make marks on maps and make plans to visit the Misty Mountains.
    Safe searching, everyone!
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

    • Idaho Geoff

      please don’t over-estimate the intelligence of hobbits, as we’re just not very clever at solving puzzles normally
      ( ..i think Bilbo fluked it, tbh)

      “have ham sandwich with extra mustard – will eat it” πŸ™‚

      • Wise words oh jaundiced one. I never have and never will overestimate your intelligence.
        (Did you use lembas bread?) πŸ˜›

        • ..and no randawg, precious elves don’t share their precious ‘lemmas bread’ with the likes of us lowly hobbitses.

          (we hopes they all chokes on their horrid lemmas bread!!! – oh wait!? ..is that an Elf with a large bow walking up my driv

      • so you’ve finally returned from your world tour with the ChipnDales dance troupe huh? – not too many velcro injuries in hard to reach places, i hope πŸ™‚
        ( ..which one is Chip again?)

        oh, and that’s NOT ‘jaundice’ btw – it’s the marvellous result of a highly expensive self-tanning spray-kit that i purchased online recently

        (which is actually called “a glowing shade of Saphron/Ochre” fyi!! ..according to the spray-can label)

  48. Harvey houses were in New Mexico I think. There has been only 3 north of Santa Fe. Montezuma has hot springs with the old pools still intact. It was purchased and declared a National Monument by an Industrialist/ Philanthropist. The only Harvey House built on Indian Land was at the Cliff dwellings. Has anyone linked a solve to these like I have? The Turquoise ff is fond of was won during a pool game from Harvey. The Montezuma was a sophisticated place for betting on pool and anything else. There are Bronze sculptures and plaques littered all over Montezuma. Google earth blocks the view of this place. Any thoughts?

  49. There is something I have come across that may be a coincidence, I’m not sure. I’d like to get other peoples thoughts on it. I have found a word that is key and to me it unlocks the poem so to speak. With this new outlook on the poem it does not seem like names of places matter and I just need to marry the idea of the poem to the map.

    What I came across doesn’t seem to help me with this new revelation so I figured I could share it here and see if others found it relevant.

    The postmarks in the TTOTC have normal dates except for the out of focus one that is listed several times. It looks like 1893. 1893 was the year of the first ever commemorative event stamps. Since it is a postmark I thought this was interesting. The even was the Chicago Worlds Fair which was also known as World’s Columbian Exposition. Buffalo Bill Cody was at this event. He wasn’t allowed in but did a show outside of the fair. At the same time nearby, historian Frederick Jackson Turner gave academic lectures reflecting on the end of the frontier which Buffalo Bill represented. Forrest has frequented and donated items to the Buffalo Bill museum in Cody so this made it even more interesting

    I thought it was interesting but it hasn’t really helped me much yet. If anyone has any thoughts about it please share.

    • Aaron, I think you should carefully consider the name of a
      place in at least one (more than one, actually) “location” that the poem indicates. This is important to a correct solve, IMO.

      History (such as the items you mentioned) won’t help.
      A map of the correct area, however, can. I don’t mean a map of something extremely large, such as a map of the United States, or even a map of The Rocky Mountains. These maps won’t show the names of details (such as
      the name of a mountain). Have you shown the poem to
      any children? Have you used a dictionary to help you
      solve the poem. Please do both.

      • Thanks for the reply. I do have some good topo maps of locations that I think are important. After figuring out the key word I’m confident that I have the poem solved. Right now I am just working on finding where it fits.

    • That’s enlightening, jenny . . . but not very. Please do tell which
      solve you found interesting, and help us find it, okay?
      Thanks in advance.

  50. It was a fun experience attending The Lure this evening. Forrest graciously visited with everyone before and after the showing and even did an impromptu side by side Q and A with the film director, Tomas Leach.

      • Dal- I see you’ve announced that Toby will releasing some video of the event, hopefully the Q and A will be a part of that.

        One thing that stuck with me that Forrest said was during an answer he gave concerning the importance of finding the correct starting place within the poem. The interesting bit came when he basically stated, in no uncertain terms, that once you’ve found the blaze, you will have found the treasure. I literally was left believing I heard him to mean just that; the treasure lies in the same location as the blaze.

        I want to be clear. This is my understanding based on my interpretation of what I felt I understood Fenn to mean in the statement in which he made. I hope video surfaces of that moment so that others may hear first hand.

        • You are absolutely correct…I recorded portions of the Q&A and that is one of the segments I have recorded. I will listen to it again and write a new comment with what he said, verbatim.

          There are a few other “things” of possible importance that were either in the movie or the Q&A. One of them was Eugene asking ff if anyone ever got all nine clues correct. He replied something like, no one ever gave them to him “in the the right order.” That made me really sit up and wonder…”the right order?”

          He also said a lot of people have been within 500 feet of the treasure but only a few have been within 200 feet of the treasure.

          In the movie when he and Desertphile were been filmed together in ff’s backyard, Desert said if he found the treasure, he’d take a few tokens and leave the chest for the next guy. Forrest asked him if he would cover it up. Desert said omg, that is a hint because you just asked me if I’d cover it back up. Forrest said, I did not say cover it back up, I just said cover it up.

          I will go through all my videos/audios and see if I have anything else worth mentioning.

          • Thank you, Cynthia. Both of Mr. Fenn’s statements, “the right order,” and, “I did not say cover it back up, I just said cover it up,” does make one wonder.

          • “Cover it up” may not be a statement in relation to the chest but in relation to the search.

  51. I just noticed that the 2nd part of the “On the Road with Charlie” podcast about the Chase is up:

    I haven’t listened to it yet, but am assuming that this is the episode where Cynthia leads Charlie on a search trip together.

    For some reason, it looks like one can only listen to it by streaming off the website right now, but I’m sure it will be downloadable soon. Hope to give it a listen later today!

      • Yes, he clarified that he was referring to the town of West Yellowstone and NOT Yellowstone National Park.

        It sounds like the search trip with Cynthia went about the same as my BOTG search last weekend (and Alsetenash’s): turned back due to too much snow. This recent late Spring snowfall isn’t helping much with the waiting for the snows to melt. My thumbs are getting sore from all this twiddling.

        • Hi Blex – Many parts of the country are experiencing unusual May weather. It should even out before long.

        • Blex- that statement confuses me even more. He write that everytime he returns to stay at “The Dude” (which is in West) he always requests room #4. Do you think maybe he meant his returned to West and not the Park?(I didn’t hear it so no clue, just curious as the story about the Dude is in TFTW )

          • Visited “The Dude” last year, and spoke with the clerk behind the counter and asked where room #4 was located. She explained she heard the story about the room, but wasn’t sure which hotel room it was. She has worked there for many years. She pointed to which one she thought it was, so I went there and took some photos of it. There were people occupying the room, so I quickly took some side shots and left. Sure wish I knew which one it was, being that the numbers have changed since the beginning when it was built.

          • Hmmm, I have yet to read TFTW, so I can’t say for sure how his statement on the podcast ties into what he wrote about the Dude. He is pretty clear in the podcast that he meant that he had not been to the town of West Yellowstone since the 1950’s. Pdenver’s post above seems to confirm this fact since the hotel seems to have long since changed their room numbering system long ago and there is no longer a room #4. I think that Forrest was being pretty clear in saying that YNP is still open game, though the town limits of West Yellowstone can be scratched off the list of possible hiding spots.

          • Hi Blex – I think Forrest cleared things up in the second podcast by stating that he had not spent a summer in West since 1950. 1950 was his last full summer spent in West and the surrounding area and then the fall of 1950 f joined the Air Force.

            The Dude was constructed after 1950 by Skippy, Donnie, and Forrest so he was clearly there when that took place and in f’s writings he has been back to West and the area many times over the years by himself and with friends and family members. I would encourage you to get TFTW. It’s a wonderful book!

          • Blex, I’d like to add to your comment, if I may, that Mr. Fenn had said the last time he was in West Yellowstone while spending his summers there. I was a bit confused with the first podcast, but the second one, he clarified it. I believe he has been to West Yellowstone since then, just not to spend the summer months there as he did with his parents and siblings. Hope this makes sense.

          • Sorry, Hear Me All. It appears I was responding while you were posting. I concur, “Too Far To Walk” has great stories in the book, which I believe others would enjoy reading.

          • Thanks for clarifying, pdenver & HMA! I’m planning to make a trip down to Santa Fe again later in the summer, and will definitely swing by Collected Works to snag myself a copy of TFTW then.

          • Blex, if you don’t want to wait until you get to Santa Fe to purchase the book, you can find a link on Dal’s blog, “Too Far To Walk,” which provides a link where you can order it.

          • I know it, pdenver, but I’ll have much more fun making the physical trip to buy than I will ordering it on-line (I made a roadtrip down to Santa Fe earlier in the year to buy TOTC and had a great trip). I’m in no rush to get it; I don’t think it’s necessary for finding the treasure. I’ll still buy it even if I find the treasure before! πŸ˜‰

    • At the 13:32 mark, in response to Randy Bilyeu’s disappearance, Forrest said, “I said that the treasure is hidden in the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe. Well, he wasn’t in the Rocky Mountains and he wasn’t north of Santa Fe.”
      Forrest ruled out the Rio Grande … Now I understand, the Rio Grande is in a gorge in a crack in the earth’s surface…it is not “in the mountains.” In fact, it’s just the opposite. So much for searching all the confluences of the side creeks that flow into the Rio Grande where I did most of my searches the first year or two. It was rugged and beautiful and I’m not sorry I searched a bunch of it.

      • That’s a good attitude, Cynthia. It does look like a beautiful area to hike. I first learned about the Chase from the NPR story in May of 2016 just after Randy’s death. I remember listening to you affirm in the radio piece that the beauty of the places that the Chase leads you to is a reward in itself, and it truly is.

      • Hi Cynthia…
        Thanks for being eager to share what you see and hear from/about Forrest. You have become a major player amongst the many searchers looking for the elusive Fenn Trove.
        It is a great topic about where the Rocky Mountains actually start and stop…both North/South and West/East. Early on I did quite a bit of research on this and found most sources describe the N/S range of the Rockies to include 59 degrees N latitude, Liard River BC, to 35 degrees N latitude, Rio Grande NM. We also know that Forrest said at least 66,000 links north of city limits of Santa Fe. Plus we have his Benchmark map that shows the entire search area.
        For new folks it might be misleading to rule out the Rio Grande/or tributaries dumping into it… unless I clearly missed something. I see your reasoning…but others may not.

        • Ken, If you listen to the podcast Part 2 where Forrest discusses Randy Bilyeu’s search area, he is saying Randy was WRONG on 2 accounts. First, his search area was not in the Rocky Mountains, meaning Randy was searching along the Rio Grande river and the RIVER is not in the “MOUNTAINS”. Does everyone realize how Forrest seldom says the chest is hidden in the desert anymore…seems like for the last year or more, he always says it is hidden in the MOUNTAINS! The Rio Grande is in a crack in the plateau…it is definitely not in the “mountains”. Second, Forrest said Randy was searching for the chest at a place not north of Santa Fe. He immediately clarified he meant 8.25 miles north of the NORTHERN LIMIT of Santa Fe (which came out AFTER Randy disappeared.)

          I am not trying to sway old searchers or new searchers from their search locations. I am only passing along the information I have. You may use it, or not.

          Good luck everyone. There is beauty everywhere in all 4 search states, so IMO, you can’t go wrong with your search spot… an estimated 100,000 searchers have searched for Fenn’s treasure BOTG over the last 7 years. My only advice is be prepared for inclement and possible unseasonable weather, and don’t expect to take the chest home. It ain’t easy to find, obviously. Enjoy the experience…

        • Not too sure “city” was mentioned, Ken.

          But logic dictates… north being above and not including…City or county of.

          • Almost certain later comment…8.25 miles north of city limits. Will check though.
            At any rate, this does not affect my area of interest…just wanted other folks to see the disparity in facts and notions.

          • I knew where to look, ken. So here it is;
            “The treasure is hidden more than 8.25 miles north of the northern limits of Santa Fe, New Mexico.”

            While I agree this is more than likely the “city” limits, and not so much the county… I always tread softly when assuming something.

    • Thanks, Dal. Over the weekend, I’ll upload two videos. The first is a 17 minute interview with Tomas Leach, the Director of “The Lure.” The second is a compilation of the footage Shelley and I shot, on our smart phones, handheld, and without lights or auxiliary microphone of the after-screening Q&A in which Forrest, unexpectedly, participated.

    • This comment is a response to the comments above from reiteri and me about Forrest saying that if you can find the blaze, you will find the treasure chest. I went through my videos and do not have that exact quote recorded but I concur it is what he said. Here are a few quotes from the Q&A that I do have:

      “You can’t go out looking for the blaze and expect to find the treasure chest. There’s 10 billion blazes out there. So you have to start with the first clue and let it take you to the blaze.”

      “I don’t want to answer the question whether the treasure chest is buried or not. Let me give you an example. If I lay the treasure chest on top the ground and some weeds blew in there and covered it up, is it buried? Is it sepulchered? Is it entombed? The clues will lead to the treasure and whether it’s buried or not you can find it if you can find the blaze as a result of starting with the first clue, that’s what you have to do.”

      • ‘If I lay the treasure chest on top the ground and some weeds blew in there and covered it up, is it buried? Is it sepulchered? Is it entombed?’

        It seems searchers may need to consider what “in there” means in respect to the hiding spot.

        Thank you, Cynthia. I greatly appreciate the information.

        • Also, the only weeds I know that could blow into an area to cover up anything, would be the tumbleweed. I can’t think of any other weed that could do so. Are there any around the treasure chest? I do not know. It may have just been an explanation by Mr. Fenn. This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

          • A spruce tree, as an example, can grow 10-12 feet in 4 years from seed. So, if TC was simply placed on the ground , trees and and plants of all kinds could potentially cover the chest. Just as abandoned cities get consumed by the vegetation and become hidden or ‘lost’ in the forest. IMO.

          • Reread what ff said. He used that as an example why he won’t use the word “buried”. Buried has too many definitions.

          • I concur, Cynthia. I think what really caught my eye was his comment you posted about “in there”.

          • After going to my allocated search area and not being able to search due to snow and inspecting the terrain around; I came away with a self advisement. Take a metal detector with me next time! Might help hear what I can’t see. IMO

          • The TC is in a desert, but as we know, the elevation is at least 5,000 ft. I saw no tumbleweeds in that desert.

            All my opinion. Please stay safe while
            in the Rockies, if you get that far.

      • Your message contains a hint from Forrest, further
        confirming a correct solve, IMO.

      • “If I lay the treasure chest on top the ground and some weeds blew in there and covered it up, is it buried?…”
        Cynthia, could you please forward a reference link for this comment?

        • Nevermind Cynthia, I guess I’ll have to wait for Toby to post his video. Thanks.

        • Randawg, Here is what I wrote in my comment above with a few corrections in my spelling:
          In the movie (The Lure) when he (Forrest) and Desertphile were being filmed together in ff’s backyard, Desert said if he found the treasure, he’d take a few tokens and leave the chest for the next guy. Forrest asked him if he would cover it up. Desert said omg, that is a hint because you just asked me if I’d cover it BACK up. Forrest said, I did not say cover it BACK up, I just said cover it up. (I put the word “Back” in all caps because that was the word that was emphasized in their verbal exchange. If Forrest would have said “cover it BACK up”, that implies it was “covered” when he hid it. He wanted to make sure David understood his remarks correctly.

          Does that explain their verbal exchange any better? You have to see the movie in order to hear this, or ask Desertphile to confirm. Hope this helped.

        • Randawg, Sorry, i answered the wrong question. This question and answer about the weeds blowing in was during the Q&A after the movie ended. I have it on my iPhone but cannot post a link to it. I believe Toby released a video of the entire Q&A so he should have it. This quote was an EXAMPLE of why Fenn doesn’t use the word “buried”. It has too many definitions.

          • I’m hoping Toby will provide a link to the entire Q & A, because the link I’ve seen was the Q & A between Ms. Carney and Mr. Leach. Perhaps he did, and I haven’t seen it. Not sure.

          • Thank you Cynthia. I just forgot to re-read for new posts before I asked my question. It’s a shame you can’t post your video. (Is it possible to E-mail it??)

          • Randawg, I tried to email the video file to Dal to post but it is too big. I’m currently downloading it to my Vimeo account. I will then post the link to all my videos from the Q&A. I think we should move the discussion to The Lure thread. I will provide an update to hod when I get this accomplished.

          • That’s great Cynthia. If you have any trouble with the download please send Dal a written transcript. Thanks again.


    • Dal…Regarding our video of “The Lure” post-screening Q&A: I have deleted it because Forrest indicated he felt awkward and unprofessional because of his hearing impairment.

    • Nice interview with Ms. Carney and Mr. Leach. I hope the questions and answers, which Cynthia had mentioned earlier, was videoed and will be released.

    • That was very cool Dal. Thank you and then thank Shelly for a great job.

      Well worth watching, just to see another viewpoint of how searchers are approaching this mystery.


  52. Did ff ever write the chest is wet or were those comments transcribed? It may be in fact wet or whet. I have some thoughts swirling but what if the chest is in a dry spot but fenn filled it with water before closing the chest. It is safe and not in a dangerous place.

    • What would be the purpose to fill the chest with water?
      The wood inside would rot at a higher rate. The key mechanism would allow water to leak out. The chest doesn’t appear to be water proof, allowing the water to evaporate in a short period time, nevertheless 7 years. [ the chest is unlocked ]. The whole thing weighs 42lb. I doubt water is needed for more weight, as an anchor or such.

      As to where fenn made the comments about wet… there are a few [ you’ll need to look them up, or maybe look into getting JCM documents ~ chasing words of Forrest Fenn in the book section on this site ].
      One comment stated “probably wet”…
      That alone seems to suggest the chest’s ‘wetness’ might rely on weather conditions, and not a constant or submerged.

      As far as whet? One meaning is sharpen, another is stimulation, as to whet ones appetite. I personally don’t see how the two words can intermix.

    • I went down that short and bumpy road…considering all of the possible wet, whet, wyat, wyet , white, wheat, weight, and so on interps as related to the poem’s wording. Basically I ended up learning a lot of stuff that probably doesn’t mean squat…especially when I considered that the clues are “in” the poem…and “wet” is not. Fenn says he knows the chest is probably wet now and that makes me believe that it was most likely not until some weather happened.

    • I’ve never been to that area before, but sounds nice. The area I enjoy while driving to Yellowstone is between Lander and Dubois; it has the red cliffs. Very pretty when the sun hits it.

  53. The links to my videos I took during the Q&A after The Lure showing are posted under The Lure thread. Unfortunately, I don’t have the good ones everyone wants to see.

  54. Seeker;

    On one of the threads, I believe it was yesterday, you posted the following.” “That’s my take ~ overall, anyways.
    So I kinda agree with that attitude of 561234, for the reasons above.”

    Could you please direct me to what thread you were on when you posted the above quote? Thanks much. JDA

  55. “drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location”
    Drones have hi res cameras which can definitely record a 10 x 10 x 5 box in the open.

    Oh, sorry. It’s obviously not in the open where I don’t think nature & blowing weeds would have covered it up in 4 years.

      • I don’t think it’s a matter if anything is allowed or not.
        We are going to use devices no matter what no matter where.

        I see the man telling us, you will not be able to see the chest using a drone which tells me the chest is not in plain sight from above below the blaze.

        • ‘We are going to use devices no matter what no matter where.’

          Would you use one in Yellowstone National Park?

          • Thank you for your honesty, Jake. As far as, understanding what Mr. Fenn meant, I believe I do.

  56. Jake – Are you still a long distance searcher, meaning walking long distances to find the chest?

        • Hi HMA. I have come to the same conclusion in my solve. If you know the starting point it is a 1 mile flat walk to the chest.
          Which state are you searching, Montana all the way for me.

        • 1 mile is long distance to walk???
          You must be in bad shape.
          I walk further than that in my sleep & I think F is still in pretty good physical shape now & could retrieve the chest if he wanted to, but may take more trips & more days.

          Never underestimate F.

          • Jake – I try not to underestimate f and I try not to overestimate him either. 1 mile over on level ground is a walk in the park but considering the chase is in the mountains it’s a different story. When I was working on the poem, I tried to avoid having ideas about how far the chest could be hidden from a road but that was hard to do.

            If you can solve the poem, you will be surprised by so much more than just the distance.

          • I can solve the poem Hma.
            How do you know I will be surprised by so much more than just the distance?

            Do you know something we all don’t?
            Please don’t start this nonsense again.
            I’m not surprised you are.

          • Jake. After you mentioned the Double Omega at the end of his books ,that I didn’t know about, I did some focus on it about the poem if you are interested I will type some here about it.

          • Alset, I’d love to hear your thoughts on the Omega’s if you care to share.

          • I realize now that I might be taken the the wrong way about it just because. So, It is not really that interesting. Already said in as much above already.

          • Shoot away like everyone else Alsetenash.
            What do you have to lose?
            I believe F said the meaning of the double Omegas will go to the grave with him, but I could be dead wrong.

          • Sorry Jake. If I explain it fully I might be taken the wrong way, so I will just say the gist. IMO I think there is something in his biography that is what is saved for the person that solves the 9 clues. It’s might be a trove in the poem and the tittle to the gold IMO-the last line . In the Chest there is more than just gold. So, hint at something else I am thinking. If stanzas 1,5,6 are read together-not for the chest purpose as messing with the poem but for double omega purposes.

            Other than the key word linked to the Omegas I said above IMO. If I give an explanation in detail I might be taken the wrong way. IMO.

            What I am referring to is this quote:

            “No Mike, everything in the chest is straight forward and visual, except my autobiography, which some might find dull. Oops, I forgot, there is one thing in the chest that I have not talked about except to say I don’t want to talk about it. It is something saved especially for the person who solves the clues. I think that person will be pleased when she sees it. F”

            Just my opinion.

          • Good guess about the double omega’s. It is possible that they are in the chest since finding it will represent the end of the chase.

          • Aaron. My explanation was terrible lol. Little bit tired today. I mean ,in my opinion, that perhaps within the chest there is something only for the finder; as he had said. I think that in his autobiography it states precisely what and where it is. In the quote I pasted from him , above, is indicative that being of she would be pleased when she sees it. The double omegas at end of his books ( his stories of experiences aka autobiography style) are indictitive to this line of thinking IMO. In that quote above his words flow in concert with this , though appearing sepearate in thought direction. “which some might find dull. Oops, I forgot……” This to me , this just might explain , “she will be pleased when she sees it” . Not the finder referenced here as she..imo. This would have to mean something that is not time sensitive for this search could go on forever. “She” is the other Omega and it will be found in his autobiography- specific for the finder only. Stanzas 1,5,6 read together is the 2nd omega.imo Hope this makes sense. Sounds odd I know, but it could mean another “nugget” for the finder and i think it is written in his autobiography. IMO just a thought putting together his other things he has said that could be relative. One omega is poem and TC. 2 omega is another trove found and lead to in his autobiography. Just some of my thoughts on omegas meaning. “She”, is word play of the other omega. Just my opinion .

          • Oops edit….” person will be pleased when she sees it” . Person in place of first “she”.

          • OOps meaning. IMO there might be something else outside the chest ,written in his autobiography , for the finder- located somewhere else. that is what I mean. IMO. That would be interesting or the finder.

          • I’m betting we’ll all be surprised by the treasure’s location. Mr. Fenn said as much. As to other surprises you (HMA) believe are in store for the finder; don’t count your chickens before they’re hatched.

          • nmc,
            I don’t remember that quote.
            “we’ll all be surprised by the treasure’s location. Mr. Fenn said as much”

            I think you have twisted the quote.
            I’m not surprised at anything right now.

          • Jake – Please continue you on with your search as you were.

            Good luck.

          • Hma,
            You need to get one thing straight.
            Don’t tell me or others how they will feel.
            If you had just said “you may be surprised” instead of “you will be surprised” we would get along better.

            You don’t know me & I don’t get surprised easily.

          • @Jake I wasn’t quoting Mr. Fenn, I was paraphrasing a comment made on this site back in March 2014 (“I think the chest is here”) by Chris Yates. When he was asked the source, he posted this response:
            “it is annotated as being a confirmed direct response from Forrest in an email on Shaun Whiteheads site”. I’ve seen other references to that comment, so if it’s incorrect, my apologies.

    • The symbol for Alpha is A. A is the first letter in the preface of TTOTC, and the first letter of the poem.

  57. First of all, I am not subscribed to this Posting of Odds and Ends. Nor will I be subscribed after this comment but, I MIGHT read comments regarding this comment.
    It is ODD that at Jenny Kyle’s site, mysteriouswritings.com, f mentions in Surprise Words – Walking Too Far that if you are walking long distances then, you are walking too far. It is also ODD that to reach my END I am walking very far, yet to do so, I am walking short distances.
    What do any of you think about this? Do any of you follow into this way of logic? Is what I say possible? Am I possibly on to something or am so far gone that I am in need of rescue from a wrong path of thinking? ODDS AND ENDS thoughts anyone?

  58. This page is now closed to further comments but you can still read old comments. To continue the conversation please go to the latest odds n ends page.

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