Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Thirty


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558 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Thirty

    • I have a place that fits most if not all of the poems answers.I’m just not sure its in the search area….How can I discuss this with someone..?

          • It seems to me that F is describing a float trip on a river….”Put in” =launch boat…..”Not for the meek”= rapids….
            “blaze”= water flowing between two boulders in rapids…..”Look quickly down”= you have to look quickly because you are going down rapids….
            You can’t paddle back up=”No paddle”
            “Go in peace”=peaceful water/calm

            Make sense to anyone or was it obvious…?

          • If there are rapids, how is he going to come back up through them to make the second trip?

          • Why do you think it might not be in the search area?

            There’s a piece here on Dal’s somewhere – an interpretation and search based on John Wesley Powell’s trip through the Gates of Lodore on the Green River in western Colorado. So that rafting part at least has been done more than once.

            The write-up is pretty good. Look under OTHER SEARCHER’S STORIES – it’s called something like “Powell, Meek, Escalante” and written iirc by Golden Retrievers.

            (I only remember that much because it was so similar to the first map the Wild Geese (my brother and I) made out of the poem.)


          • Lazer wrote – “There are places that are rapid only a few months of the year…..”

            Very true. In the spring some rapids are submerged under big runoffs (that can be even more unforgiving than the rapids).

            By September/October some stretches of some rivers can be too dry to run.

            I’ll throw some thoughts into the discussion, feel free to throw them back:

            I’d be stunned to learn that placing/retrieving the chest involved rafting, but I do think it’s entirely possible that the poem could be drawing/describing the map in river-running terms, at least in part.

            I don’t think that the chest location is some kind of Brigadoon, solvable only around summer solstice, or vernal or autumnal equinox, or during low water (or high water).

            The chest can’t have been placed in any kind of flowing water.
            . . . . Okay, it could have been, but if it was it’s either buried moved or broken up by now, or all three.

            As far as “being in the search area,” broadly speaking I’d say that if you’re west of I-25 and east of Utah, you’re probably in.


          • Maybe there is a dry creek that has these features…? I just started research on this and the creek ride is all I’ve got,maybe F is wanting us to start in montana and end up in nm at the end of our journey…?

          • Lazer,

            “We are now ready to start on our way down the Great Unknown.”

            ~ John Wesley Powell – 1869 ~

            Have enjoyed reading of this remarkable human being. A one-armed Civil War Veteran way ahead of his time. He also realized “the bigger picture.”

            I found it especially interesting that it was 100 years to the day,(1869 – 1969), of Major Powell’s meeting at the confluence of the Green and Colorado rivers in the park; Apollo 11….landed on the moon.

            I often define The Flyer as an unrelenting nature conservationist as well, and hope all will appreciate the following:



          • Enjoyed the link, my friend. I would agree with you. “The Thrill of The Chase,” Preface, page 4, in part:

            ‘Please overlook my slight penchant for provocation and realize that all of us are environmentalists to some degree, and me more than most.’

      • SL
        Thank you for your link and the link between Apollo and Powell’s voyage…..Every clue that I am looking at is drawing me to that area…..

      • Lazer –

        It’s always great to hear from someone new to the chase.

        Put In has 2 nautical meanings. The one you are referring to is the noun. A Put In is a place on the river where rafters or floaters enter the water.

        The verb to Put In means the exact opposite. In means to go ashore. If you are sailing you Put Out to sea and you Put In to shore.

        Folks use Put In as the action to describe entering the river to float all the time. No one is wrong in saying it. I just want you to know that pilots use the term a different way. Many refer to the piers as docks in the same manner. We dock a boat at a pier. Many of us just call it a dock. or the docks.

        Put In may not be an action or a direction. Put In may mean the opposite of what you are thinking.


        • *applauds*

          Well said Lugnutz.

          If you were at all wondering, I’m in the camp that “put in” does not mean get into the water…..but to “put in” (begin the hike) on land.

          Thanks for putting them both out there….many don’t realize the latter, but I do, as I am ex-Navy!


          Good luck to you!

          • Tim –

            I have spent a lot of tine thinking about what is common to Fenn that is umcommon to others.

            Looking at naughtical terms and surveyors methods.

            That Old Man stuff intersects both in the military and out west.


          • Lugnutz
            Great info there,thanks for the reply….
            Imo F carried the tc from his car to an area that is near where someone could put in and walk to….What is your take on the convergance of the green and yampa rivers…?

          • Dinosaur NM is a great place, but lots of clues that might put you awfully close to and over the border, depending on how you interpret them; though getting the treasure out from there without some trouble might be tricky ..


          • Lazer –

            I am not considering Anderson Hole but i bet someone else is and has.

            Must be beautiful out there. If you go bring back pictures.


          • I will check out A hole,…Anderson that is…lol…Its Echo park and mountain that have my interest ,whispering cave,etc…
            “I’m not worried about what is posted on the blogs, its what they WHISPER
            that does” F….Or he said something like that….

    • Thank you Jake, the John Wesley Powells trip has given me much insight as I am reconfirmed the area that IMO is the correct one….

    • A synonym for wise is sage….It grows in the higher altitudes
      of the mountains….Is it a clue or just coincidence….?

    • I need some ideas. I believe I have lined up all the clues except for “look quickly down, your quest to cease.” I believe the poem is fairly straight forward and gives you locations and directions to go. What am I missing in these two lines?

  1. Speaking of 3, Forrest is giving clues on how to stay safe so we don’t have 3 regrets to deal with.

    ff tried to think of everything, but when searchers fly by the seat of their pants, he says it’s like sliding down the rusty fire escape bannister a searcher could wind up with a mess on their light colored Kakis, just sayin.
    Tom T

  2. I really hope he does not cancel this search just because of couple of big headed people thought it was no big deal and they were not careful and they were not cautious. Forrest warned everybody to be careful and cautious and you also said his grandkids could walk right up to it so there’s that. I’m 99.9% sure I know where it is I’m just having difficulty traveling to the area from California.

    • Fellow Californian, it does get expensive, but worth it. Need to work on that .1% though, then again, if you did that you might be at my spot:).

        • Unfortunately I’m in Stockton I was in Los Angeles but I got derailed and I need to get back to LA however at the current time I’m in Stockton

        • Hi Timw, I’m in San Diego. We are going at the end of July though flying. Another time perhaps though.

    • I just sent this email to Pete Kassetas FWIW.

      Mr. Kassetas-

      I saw the news about you ‘begging’ Mr. Fenn to reconsider or cancel his treasure hunt because an unfortunate adventurer died during a trip to find the treasure. Yes, a death, and expenses for searching, occurred in a situation that was avoidable. To say that sucks is an understatement.

      I’m not here to debate whether or not you’re right. I’m just here to point out that, just a day or two later, a father and son died in New Mexico while hiking the Calsbad Caverns area.

      Again, avoidable deaths, and search/rescue expenses, occurred from a situation that could be easily avoided. Again, for lack of better words, it sucks.

      However, I don’t see you calling the press with the desire for hiking to be put to and end ‘in interest of public safety’.

      What gives?

      • Hi Rathmon.

        I tweeted directly to the New Mexico State Police to have them please remove all alcohol related products from all retail stores to eliminate any future deaths that will because of the consumption.

        It is obvious that they really didn’t think out what they said and clearly are making it a specific task because they are actually having to do their job….”To Protect and Serve”….and it is taking up too much of their time.


        I wouldn’t worry too much about this.

        If anything, I think FF will remove NM from the list of states to search.

        This will eliminate the heat he recently received.

        BTW – FF said that he will give out another clue to help relieve some of this “danger”.

        REMEMBER – never go searching alone.

          • Hi matt.

            IMO – with all the hoopla occurring around NM…..I’d like for FF to just say…it isn’t in NM….which does two things….

            – eliminates the NM SP and their concerns
            – eliminates one “small” area of the search zone

            But will FF say anything? Shoot – we already are seeing “false clues” – as in “it is covered in mud”…..

            We’ll see soon enough how this moves forward.

            Cheers and good luck to you.

      • Rathmon ~ “Again, avoidable deaths, and search/rescue expenses, occurred from a situation that could be easily avoided. Again, for lack of better words, it sucks.”
        I get what your attempting to say… Like fenn say; how do you put a value on a life [ paraphrasing ].

        I don’t think the word avoidable, which has been used by many in the last weeks, is the correct term. A person can avoid drinking and driving by not drink prior to driving, or don’t drive after drinking.

        An avoidable death is something that can not be a accomplished. We might as well say, deaths in wars were avoidable, or the term that I hate to hear “collateral damage”
        We can attempt to keep those death down by thinking… [ whatever the facts concern… hiking, driving, walking across an intersection etc. etc. ]
        Where can we possibly draw the line to an avoidable death?
        fenn made a comment about the word “safe”… echo the part ~ show me in the world where it’s truly safe ~ and replace it with a ‘voidable death.’

        I just don’t believe there is such a thing… However, there is such a thing as precautionary measures; caution practice beforehand / Circumspection; wary, prudently watchful…

        But we also need to be realistic… example; we can avoid being killed in a car crash ~ IF we never get in a car… But, Is that really going to happen or even realistic to think? The term bubble; as completely isolated. Who wants to live like that?

        • I’m with you “Seeker”….we live in a world that we all need to pay attention to what we are doing, going to do, and then do what you will to be safe, happy, and not harm anyone else.

          It is very clear that the NM SP mis-spoke and are trying to limit the role they had signed up for.

          I for one, think this chase is the most wonderful thing to occur to modern man in quite a long time!


        • Well said! I used the term avoidable in the idea that better planning/precautions would have maybe resulted in a better outcome.

          The Pastor should not have gone alone, or been in a place that is contrary to Fenn’s cautioning of going to a place an 80 yr old carrying 20-40 pounds of treasure wouldn’t be able to safely go.

          The father & son should have planned better for the heat- it’s something that was known in advance and could have been mitigated by proper provisioning.

          My point is that as many people died in one hiking accident as have been known to die chasing Fenn’s gold. It’s ridiculous that Kaasetas is using his power and media access for a trivial matter in the grand scheme of other woes in NM and beyond.

          • It’s a political move. He thinks it is a risk he can remove, which is his only way to prevent a death (if exercised unwisely).
            He can’t control drunk driving, drug over doses, murder, hiking and other outdoor deaths, but can try to ban hoards of people from coming to his state to treasure hunt and possibly dying.
            So, if I search NM, and get snake bit and die, is THAT the agenda that caused my deat? NO! I just happened to be hiking in the snake’s neighborhood. I could have been bird watching! Would it make it any different if the bite occurred because I had my eyes on a woodpecker? Or, was it preventable because I was searching for treasure?
            Totally irrational and illogical to say that F needs to call off his chase?
            I think the Chief may have cost his own re-election to flow down the toilet with his ridiculous request, especially since the NM Tourism made a video with F tempting the searcher to come to NM and spend their search dollars there!
            I bet F will release a safety statement about no rivers need to be forged to find Indulgence.
            Better yet, add that it’s NOT in NM, as a pie in the face! There isn’t much qualified search area in NM, and I can think of prettier places to search!
            Just my little ‘ol “O”.

          • Donna,
            Just curious… I’m not familiar with the “chief’s” position as to being hiring or elected, or appointed by another for the state of NM.

            For example; if appointed, like many judges, it may be a 10 year term or life term. If hired, it would be an act of firing by a state representative with the power to do so. However, in many states, a Sheriff, for a county is elected through a county citizen voting process, while the Deputy Sheriff could be hired by the Sheriff with no election process necessary.

            Do you know which section of hiring/elected he falls under?

    • Lots of Californians coming out of the woodwork — I’m SoCal as well (Orange County).

      • Fellow SoCal here as well, OC myself. Finally starting to look like summer out here, minus the june gloom.

      • Hi Aaron — not sure when I’ll next head to the Rockies, but certainly no later than mid-August since I’ll be in Jackson for the eclipse. Gotta log those umbra minutes!

      • I’m a newby Californian in Santa Cruz area and looking forward to getting back to research. I had done a lot of reading before, but living on the East coast made it not really feasible to do any trips.

        • OC as well. new to the search but spent a year traveling the lower 48. I’d be interested in tagging along if anyone is planning a trip and needs an able body 🙂

    • I need a hiking partner Sept 5th -11 to share room expenses in west yellowstone and to rent a car.

    • It would seem so unfair to the hundred thousand searchers or so of us if Forrest Fenn decides to cancel The Thrill of the Chase treasure search prematurely because a few people out of so many make terrible decisions. Everyone please encourage him and the negative media to keep the chase going. It belongs to the ages now…

  3. I have contact the NM police department VIA email,

    Stating – They had no issues spending tax payers money on a Video about NM and Forrest chest to gain revenue for the state, and now they want Forrest to call it off.


  4. Maybe FF should eliminate the state of NM (if it is not there), that should satisfy the state police, and not shut down the hunt. That would not reduce the sesrch area very much.

    • not obsessed – the poem says
      not far – but to far to walk – so it must be in NM

      • Someone in NM once asked Forrest (at the TFTW book signing video) if they can go with him to get the chest. Fenns reply was “If you have an airplane.”

        Now why would Forrest say that they needed a plane if it was in NM? Go watch the video, he says it VERY clearly.

        • Reminds me of the old joke:
          Ad on a singles forum:
          Wife wanted. Must have boat and motor. Send photo of boat and motor.

          Forrest had already sold his aircraft by this time. He is simply saying that he’d like to go flying.

          Forrest is too smart to hand that out as a clue. But certainly smart enough to know that some out there would mistake it for one.

          That’s my opinion.

          • [note to self: immediately return my recently purchased Learjet70 for a partially full refund]

            ..but didn’t Forrest mention somewhere that the TC is easier to find while driving a Ferrari Testarossa?
            ..or should i return that too? 🙁

          • Fenn has also stated [ straightforward ]
            “I’ve said things people think are clues.” imagine that?!

            Now, I have to check out that other web site to see if there are any clues…
            research, research, research is the key, right?

            Psss. CH, keep the Testarossa for fun. But you’ll still need another car for daily driving… no cup holders in the Testarossa… what the heck we’re they thinking ~ where will I put my big sipper cawffee mug?

          • F also has a sign similar to that in his vault or garage (can’t remember) but his says “airplane and hangar.” 🙂

          • To correct the record, the actual conversation went like this:

            Fenn: If a person reads the poem over and over and are able to decipher the first few clues in the poem, they can find the treasure chest. It may not be easy, but it certainly isn’t impo… – I could go right straigh to it!

            Audience laughter.

            Michael McGarrity: Amazing! The man has incredible power.

            Fenn: (Speaking to McGarrity) You’re so easy.

            Female Voice from the Audience: Would you take a partner along?

            Fenn, not hearing the question, looks at Douglas Preston.

            Preston: (Speaking to Fenn) Would you take a partner along? When you go to it?

            Fenn: (Looking out at audience member) Do you have an airplane?

            Audience Laughter.

            Female Voice from the Audience: I’ve got my bushwhacker.

          • My point of view on his drift is the same Toby…
            He was flirting with her…if she had a plane they would go together…lol…

          • Many truths are said delivered by knee jerk humour. I have been slapped many times by using the shadow of sarcasm lolol.

      • Frank, FF never said that it was not far from his home. The poem says
        “Begin it where warm waters halt
        And take it in the canyon down,
        Not far, but too far to walk.
        Put in below the home of Brown”
        I think it is pretty clear that “not far, but to far to walk” is from the starting point- ( IMO WWWH HOB.) Other wise he would not have included the other three states.

      • Michael I missed that, about the Rio Bravo? I did hear about staying out of the desert comment, heck Albuquerque has been over or will be over 100 degrees for 4th day today, but how can anyone eliminate “No place for the meek! The Rio Grand Gorge is like the top of Mt Elbert, in the sense hostile to all life.

        IMO one must, in their imagination travel through and up where “The end is DRawing nigh”, just 90 degrees from Santa Fe and then nigh.


        • @Tom…or eleven o’clock north! Where’s seeker when you need him….Rio hasn’t been eliminated just either a news article or comment regarding how a lot of the river isn’t in the RMs…..anyone? shame on you Michael! IMO Happy Friday!

          • The Rio Grand starts near Telluride Co, 14, ers are all around it, but heads almost due East turning south, near NM Border, at Alamosa the 13 and 14,000ft Rockies are locally known as the San Juans and Sangre De Christo they extend into the City of Santa Fe, Jemez area is just a southern volcanic extension of the Rockies, they are on ff’so map, see Bandelier Natonal Monument just east of Santa Fe, but the the Rio Bravo Mexico Aka Grand USA is 1885 miles long. So ff is right much of it is not in the Rockies, in fact none of the 1400 miles south of The CITY DIFFERENT.

            Just wanted to clear that up using Geography, and a Google Earth search.

            Tom T

      • “If your solve is in the desert, get a new solve, and remember, much of the Rio Grande River is not in the Rocky Mountains” ff

        That doesn’t exactly “eliminate the Rio Grande.” MOST (by far) of the Rio Grande is south of Santa Fe, so already excluded.

        But the headwaters are in Colorado north of Santa Fe and, at least upstream (west) of Monte Vista, definitely in the Rocky Mountains, no?


        • The Rio Grande headwaters begin at Stony Pass, just east of Silverton, CO in the Weminuche Wilderness of the mighty San Juan Range of the Rocky Mountains. The Weminuche is Colorado’s largest wilderness area…rugged and remote. God’s country, indeed. Could be a perfect place to hide a treasure. The fishing is superb.

          • Sandy, I’ve been horseback 14 miles up the pine river from valecitos lake, past what they call ribbon falls…. you are correct, that’s gods country….. two weeks in there… priceless…
            Have a great night….. see ya

          • @Sandy, sounds great and only about a five hour drive from SF! I think one of the editions of Flywater has good things to say about the San Juan, it’s on my list of places to check out in CO!

          • The elevation of the Rio Grande headwaters is too high according to Forrest’s 10,200 feet above sea level comment.

          • Blex…my post was an attempt to clarify that the headwaters of the Rio Grande are east of Silverton, NOT Telluride as stated in an earlier post. The Weminuche / San Juans could be a good place to hide a treasure…not necessarily at the headwaters of the RG. Hope that makes more sense.

          • Focused…my daughter and I are leaving next week for a 50+ mile backpack trip thru the San Juans…final leg will be headwaters of the Pine River to Vallecito. Thanks for the tip – I will be sure to check out Ribbon Falls. I hope it isn’t “to far to walk”, lol.

          • Sounds fishy Sandy and thats a good thing. I hear the fish there are so famous they each have a unique name. If you happen to catch a moment with Homer Brown be sure to give him a kiss on the cheek for me and let go in peace.

          • Blex wrote – “The elevation of the Rio Grande headwaters is too high according to Forrest’s 10,200 feet above sea level comment.”

            No – the peaks are too high, but there’s plenty of terrain below 10,200 in the upper reaches of the Rio Grande, even if you only include the stretch west of the San Luis Valley.

            I can’t know of course exactly why ff chose 10,200 feet as a limit, but I like to believe that two altruistic factors played at least a part:

            1 – to keep inexperienced searchers from the hard steep climbing and dangerous sudden weather changes on very exposed ground;

            2 – to keep searchers from tramping around and inadvertently tearing up very fragile (and beautiful) alpine terrain.

            SANDY – your trip sounds absolutely fantastic, the country you’re going through is achingly beautiful.


          • Well, Mr Strawshadow… you know I don’t go anywhere without my fishing pole! Gotta have a fish story to tell when I get home. But my daughters are the real fisherwomen in my family and make me proud! I catch fish, but generally without any style points, lol. I’m hung up on the back cast most of the time. But the Los Pinos was the first place I ever caught 2 fish at a time with a little dry and dropper. I’ll be sure to tell Boomer Brown you said hi. He’s my favorite.

          • J.A. Kraven: You are either mistaken, or talking on different terms than I was.

            The headwaters of the Rio Grande are at just about 12,000 feet above sea level. Please reference a topographic map to confirm this for yourself.

            The “upper reaches” of the Rio Grande is a different term than the headwaters and could be interpreted much more loosely. How many miles long is the “upper reach” of a river?

            Incidentally, when the Rio Grande finally does drop down below 10,200 feet, you are practically on top of a dam.

          • Blex wrote – “J.A. Kraven: You are either mistaken, or talking on different terms than I was . . . . The “upper reaches” of the Rio Grande is a different term than the headwaters and could be interpreted much more loosely.”

            You’re absolutely right Blex, I was speaking too broadly.

            The point was that ff’s recent (and oddly phrased) statement didn’t exclude the Rio Grande completely (as the original poster claimed it did). At a minimum, the named river from the reservoir to where it enters the San Luis Valley is in the Rocky Mountains.


          • Sandy
            Love your backcast problem, an easy solution is grab a Barbie and hit a straight stretch with a cast master.
            And since fishing under the influence is legal in your state…hope springs eternal takes on a whole new meaning. Not to worry though, I’m sure theres a big brown just waiting for the chance to gulp down on something other than an over stylish Ken doll with a man bun matching the hatch. There’s only one rule thats cast in stone, and that is keep it wet.

          • Straw…thanks for the fishing tips and how did you know my backup is the Barbie? Are you stalking me on FB? You are more cunning than I realized. As for my own stealthy ways, my search cover is that of an old biddie, practically gone to seed but with a little life left in her, stumbling about warm waters and canyons down with her pink Barbie fishing pole…doncha know. PS I think the man-bun is hot.

    • I agree, eliminate NM if it isn’t there. They don’t need the tourism and snowflakes don’t want treasure hunts.

  5. not a Communist State, people can do as they please. Grown folk shouldn’t have to be told that shaking hands with a Grizzly Bear isn’t a safest thing to do, but some will still try. Please Forrest, don’t give in to these people because death will still happen in the mountains, gold or no gold. And, people will keep slipping in their tubs when taking a showers, and so on.

  6. If one were able to have a conversation with Osborne Russell in the present day and he was in his later years and describe to him what The Thrill Of The Chase was and that some people were upset that it was causing people to take risks and lose their lives in the limited Wilderness that remains of this country.

    What do you think he would say?

    I think he would say, “I know where Warm Waters Halt is located.” “Let’s go!”

  7. I hope TTOTC does not end! My family has had some fun times figuring out the clues and looking for the chest! I have been really busy lately but hope to get out again soon!

  8. Quick Public Service Announcement for anyone considering doing something risky because you think the Chase is going to end and this is the only opportunity you have.

    Whatever you’re thinking of doing, it’s not worth it. Here is my personal email address: jeremysdropbox@gmail.com Please give me the opportunity to talk you out of it. I don’t care where you’re searching. I won’t even ask. I’m only concerned about your personal safety and would like to work with you on considering alternatives.

    Anyone is welcome. Let’s chat.

  9. When something tragic happens there are those who rush to legislate . Some would have everyone living in a confined area eating what they deem safe. The human spirit that defines us as Americans. Is being threatened by those who want to control are actions as they think they know what is best for us. Do not let emotions but logic make decisions.
    My husband and I worked 9-11 he at ground zero and I in DC. As bad as that was the fear that it inflicted resulted in many of our freedoms being taken away.
    I do not put FF on some pedestal. He is just a man. It was his intent to get people off the couch and outside in nature. What was meant to be fun should not be overshadowed by tragedy. I don’t think this needs any further discussion.

  10. I get the sense that a final Solve is just around the corner. Been feeling that way for awhile.

    It’s going to all come together and make a whole lot of sense as The Flyer has indicated.

    *Think children.


  11. Well,
    not only did my buddy and I not find the chest [ our 5th search ], but we got ridiculed by some bratty grade school kids. The crazy part is there were red “bear warning” signs posted everywhere around this campground.

    Being a chicken, I thought about sleeping in one of those dbl door metal bear lockers. The latch works from the inside as well, just not enough room to stretch out comfortably.

    I wish I was still there now, it was well worth the 2,000 mile drive each way. Hope this negative publicity subsides quickly, think I’d like to head back again before the season is over.

    • 9 clues, behind those bear signs is the home of
      Brown bears, and also no place for the
      Yes, IMO !

    • Made my fourth search trip out west this past May. Went with my wife. She got into it more than me…..kinda like an Easter egg hunt for her. She came up with more solves to match the clues after seeing the area first hand. Things I never thought about before, even after three previous trips to the same general area.
      Obviously we didn’t find it..water too high (spring runoff) and we didn’t want to take any chances. Small river, but too fast. Had to leave two days early and change flight tickets due to a late season snow storm.
      Still had a great time with beautiful scenery. Planning on another trip in the next few months.

    • Are you still fishing in the Tom Minor Basin?

      I had a kid throw a calcified stone at me when swimming at F’s bathing spot.
      Funny how mom scolded him.

  12. What would it take to convince the Chase community that a searcher was on the correct path to finding the gold without giving away a search area?

    I think I’ve found clues with boots on ground but the path I took to find those clues are just as, if not, more important than the clues themselves.

    I’m struggling to find a way to share.

    So what would convince you?

    • ummm.. taking a selfie with the TC might help to convince us
      ..so please don’t forget to take ya camera 🙂

    • What would convince me would be ; in one or two words, what is the blaze? Not to say ,a tree ,a rock, or a mountain but to look at it you would say it is a…?

        • Well then, please be safe and take plenty of water with you to maintain optimal hydration.

          • Hey, you said give you one or two words and you’d be convinced. I gave you four great ones. Are you going back on our deal?

          • One or two words of what the blaze is if you were looking at it. Your answer gave other words in one line the poem. Conversation completed.

          • What the blaze is, if you were looking at it, in four words is Where Warm Waters Halt. That’s what I think. And I am aware that that is also in the poem. If I told you exactly what I thought it was then you’d find it.

          • AkB: thank you for playing. The blaze is not WWWH (in my opinion) but props for trying something different.

        • You’ve just convinced me that you are on the
          WRONG path. But thanks for posting. IMO.

          • The pretension is strong on this site.

            Do you honestly believe that all you have to do is drive to the woods, follow nine terrain features, and then pick up a box of gold? Thats foolhardy.

            Why are you limiting your options? Give me one reason why the blaze couldnt be wwwh. I just happen to think its obvious that it is.

      • I am repeating myself – but, there are 5.
        A large geographical feature
        A water f\all
        Something chiseled onto three stones of various sizes.
        All five have something in common re appearance. JDA

          • sincere best o’ luck in your up-coming search, JDA ..and lemme know if ya happen to meet Oscar in ya travels..

            ( ..i’ll urgently Fed-Ex a large can of ‘swift-kick-ass’ to your immediate location)

            ( ..def beats ‘bear-spray’ i reckon, or ya money back, guaranteed 🙂 )

          • I know where he is going & has been several times.
            I have no desire to creep on someones solve especially him.
            He has shared a lot of his solve with me & many things make sense.

            But there are some things I cannot reconcile.
            I wish him safety which he preaches & to bring back good memories.
            When I see 5 blazes leading me to the chest. Don’t be afraid to put me down.

          • Good luck JDA. Remember:

            It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

          • Good luck JDA. Remember:

            It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

        • JDA. Though I think I get what you are meaning by ‘5’ blazes. But really are there 5 Blazes in your opinion? You seem to be implying what are all the geographic clues at your location that you believe are site clues in the poem?Perhaps not all are blazes but all those are your “the 9″ clues? Paraphrasing FF, he said something in part like there are a billion blazes out there. I think he said this during The Lure interview. There could very well be 5 types of identifiable blazes at our determined sites but only one true one that is specific in the poems creation. IMO

          When I was at my site I already had my blaze identified prior and could identify it when there, but I also saw another blaze very compelling in possibility also. But, I was not flanked by indecision due to having my ” word that is key” that is in the poem that leaves no doubt which one is correct in my opinion.

          I always think that FF uses precision and imagination in his mapping within the poem. The poem clues can be identified everywhere throughout the entire RM’s . The challenge is he has a specific one of each one where he hid the chest and leading to where he hid the chest. There could be 1 through 5 possibilties of the 9 clue identifiers at any site or leading to the site because no site can be too small or large . The mastery is in the identifying of each correct one correctly starting with the first one and so on. Being wrong on any one of them leads to just a really good sight seeing tour. IMO

          5 blazes? Sound like a great tour 4 times the fun lol. I am wondering if you probably have one specific one of each , just many other possibilties to choose from

          Have fun and be safe this weekend on your search ,JDA.

        • Good luck on your search, JDA! (It’s been harder than day-old toast to post anything on the site lately, but taking a chance on this!)

        • JDA, let me (try to) understand . . . do you
          think that there are 5 blazes, all of which FF
          mentioned in his poem?? Or are you just
          considering 5 possibilities for what THE blaze
          is? Stay tuned for my response to your

      • hi randawg – i strongly suspect that AkB TH is searching in a half-drunken state 🙂

        ( ..oh wait!? ..did you mean….? )

    • AkB,
      You ask a question that can only be answered by proof. No on will be “convinced” without it.
      If you really want to attempt to explain… I would like to know how you answer what fenn has stated; the finder will not feel lucky, but ask ~”What took me so long?”
      You say, the path you took might be more important than the clues themselves. You don’t need to give up an area/location to explain the reasoning for that… Take a shot and explain something.

      • I have what I believe to be proof. Pictures and what not. But the real proof is the story and if I tell you the story I have to tell you where I’ve been. And if I tell you where I’ve been then you might find the treasure. And I don’t want you to find the treasure. Because I want to find the treasure.

        I don’t feel lucky. I solved the poem. I did a daring thing to find the map. And the poem and the map work together to lead a searcher to clues on the ground. I’ve found a few of those clues. I think I know what the unintentional clue in TFTW is. I took a pic of it and sent it to Dal and Jeremy. I don’t have the patience to figure out how to link to it.

        I’m going out again soon. I thought telling some of the story would be fun. You know, tell it while I live it or something like that. Maybe I’m crazy, I dunno. But what if I’m not? I figure I’ll go find out.

        • The area is huge, the chest is small. To think that if you even gave your “area” and someone would find the chest is ridiculous. With the trees, foliage, rocks, bushes, and other things around, to give the area and someone believing they could leave their home in confidence with just that info is equally ridiculous.
          Like Alsetenash said, if you think WWWH is the blaze, conversation done. We don’t need the story, that’s not the solve, just proof. So, here’s a question, why the 265 gold coins in the chest? What does that represent in your solve? A good enough explanation of that, and I will wish you very good luck on your search, stay safe. No explanation or a bad one, well, then back to the drawing board for you. Could save you some money.

          • I have an explanation for the coins. I think I’ll keep it to myself for the time being.

            As for the blaze, how would you know what to look for if ff didn’t tell you? If he never mentioned it then the blaze could be nearly anything.

            And if the area is huge and the chest is small, how does ff narrow it down so anyone could find it? He’s brass not magic.

            I’m standing at my drawing board. And I’m studying it. And it’s telling me that solving the poem was easy, retrieving the chest is what is hard, not because it’s dangerous, but because he sends you chasing geese and you only get the treasure if you catch one.

          • And with that, I’m with Alsetenash and CH. I will wish you good luck though, anything is possible.

          • Your rationale doesn’t make any sense. If the starting point was known then anyone could find the chest. That’s the point of the whole thing.

        • AkB,
          I’m going to cancel my trip to the Gallatin Nation Forrest seeing you got it.

          Just have some patience.
          The chest does.

          • Jake,
            The Rio, is definitely not a creek!
            What’s up Jake?
            Did I tell you I found a geochache in April! Want to find this chest?
            Jake , and honor Mr
            Fenn , that sherrif had no business asking him to call off the hunt!

          • Martha,
            Wuz up?
            Geocaching seems to be a fun experience but at this time most of my resources are going to TTOTC.

            Maybe someday I will allocate some time for other things but not this year.

        • I’m not one to stomp on somebody’s solve.
          I really wish the best of luck to you AkB.

          A wise man once said: “Don’t be influenced by those who say they know, but don’t.”

        • AkB,
          You posted, you wanted to take the time to convince the readers and ask what would it take to do that. You say you know about the 265 coins, yet say nothing about them. You say fenn told us what the blaze is, yet you haven’t even hinted to where… the book, the poem… a SB…
          You say the poem is easy but to retrieve the chest is hard, then say, fenn has us chasing geese. You then stated, If the starting point was known then anyone could find the chest. That’s the point of the whole thing.

          OK, Let’s review. Fenn has stated we need to know where to start, need to nail down the first clue, if you can find the chest it won’t be a big job to retrieve it.

          So far, you haven’t give us anything to answer your question… just a bunch of ‘I knows’. It seem to me, other searcher have been at the first clue.. first two clues.. might have deciphered the first four clues, as well as, searcher walking by the clues and the chest. Maybe you can explain why those folks who live and breathe the chase did so?

          I mean, you should be able to answer that with out giving away your location…right? How did searcher on location walking by all the clues and the chest and told fenn the correct first two clues that put the there, walked through or very near all the clues, and within 200′ of the chest and not have understood anything?

          If you really want to attempt to convince anyone of anything… well, that’s a good place to start. Because so far, all I’m hearing is you repeating fenn, and end running others inquiries with ‘i knows’ and excuse not to talk about it, in a chat room dedicated to Talk About it. Doesn’t sound like you really want to convince us of anything…

          • Thank you Seeker, exactly…We always seem to get 1-2 of these when Summer rolls around. Didn’t think it would be someone who has been here for awhile… Oh well.

        • AkB…I have a lot of really compelling photos of some really cool possible locations too. But…I dare say that mine are just proof that I had a great vacation…and at this point prove nothing. The “fact” purveyors are delusional and probably could be deemed “crazy” on many levels. Confidence is a funny thing…and in real terms does not need to be spoken of.
          Have some fun and be prepared for reality….

    • Why even consider convincing The Chase community you are on the right path?

      Just convince yourself to the point necessary to incite you to search, then go get the treasure and convince Forrest you’ve found it. No need to worry about all us flounderers!

      Just keep your common sense and bear spray handy, and always think ‘safety’ while searching.

      • The why is I feel guilty. I found a map, but by finding the map I destroyed the map. It was one of the most intense, draining,and thrilling weeks of my life. Without the map, I don’t think the treasure can be found. And even with the map, there’s no way to be sure I’m smart enough to follow it. I’ve been trying, but it’s difficult.

        • Are you truly saying that you “destroyed” the only map that could solve the poem? LOL, Well, there’s a story we all would like to hear…
          For you to have done that, “the map” must have been on site, in the field, on location.

          How could you destroy the this critical map by just finding it?
          It also sounds like your saying, all the maps folks have look at over the years are useless, and you just killed the opportunity for anyone else to locate the chest.

          hmmmm… tic tic tic tic….

        • AkB Treasure Hunter said – “The why is I feel guilty. I found a map, but by finding the map I destroyed the map.”

          Please tell us it wasn’t a petroglyph or pictogram . . . .


        • (yawn) . . .

          For what it’s worth, I don’t think you should lay a guilt trip on yourself.

          Good luck to you anyway. Please stay safe.

        • thankfully AkB, you weren’t in the immediate vicinity when the Rosetta Stone was discovered

  13. what if Christopher Columbus heeded the warnings that sailing west across the Atlantic was potentially dangerous?

    then ‘mr. NM Police Chief sir’ wouldn’t actually exist today

    fact! 🙂

    • Chris Columbo, got lucky by hitting land before sailing off the edge of the earth. I’m just glad Issac Newton discovered gravity, so Chris didn’t float away… missing that land altogether. C’mon CH… lets give credit where credit is due.
      Although, there are a few I’d like to see float away… What surprises me is, most of these helium heads, are in an authority position or treasure hunters.

      So, Thanks a lot for that as well, Mr. Newton…

    • yep, totally agree Seeker ..darn that Newton-guy, for bringing to our global attention such blatant fundamental truisms, like ‘gravity’ and some-such-stuff
      ..just for merely educating the future development of humanity

      ( ..i mean.. what was he even thinking?! 🙁 )

      ..oh well, i s’pose we’re all stuck here on this thin geodetic crust, enjoying the camaraderie of all our many civilised global neighbours..

      ( ..& Jake)

      ( ..yeah, thanks alot Isaac!!)

      • lol ..nice spin-doctoring there, Jake-ness

        at least ya brave enough to be more easily flushed-out than some others here, on HoD

        ( ..i mean, i finally managed to hunt down Zap, on the moon of all places ..& he STILL won’t talk to me!)

        • Mr. Hobbitses — I posted a message to you last night, but I’m not seeing it now so it must have gone to that big bit-bucket in the sky. My post was about the 60 Minutes segment that aired last Sunday on New Zealand. It was about the quiet invasion of American expats buying up land in NZ, partly as a hedge against things going south (no pun intended?) in the U.S., but I think mostly because your country is so frickin’ gorgeous. It has almost everything you could want geography-wise, a temperate climate, good wine and beer, friendly people, and a slower paced life. The ocean’s a little chilly — could you fix that? Maybe tap into that Ring of Fire you’re parked on.

        • hi Zapster

          yep no worries, i’ve already started on the oceanic drilling process ..but i only have a hand auger (and the hole keeps filling with sea-water)
          so it could take awhile

          ..what temperature would suit you? 🙂

    • That’s for sure!!!!!!
      That police chief or sheriff has enough to keep him busy!

  14. Curious Hobbit,
    I watched Smithonian Channel’s Aerial New Zealand tonight. Your country is absolutely beautiful!

    • thanks Chase Fan, i’m glad you like what i’ve done with this place 🙂

      ( ..shame about our politicians though 🙁 )

    • it’s beautiful coz we have no snakes here, randawg
      and snakes are so mean, they even eat chip-munks..

      ( ..oh well, there’s one positive i s’pose 🙂 )

      • The scientific name for chipmunks is: Tamias, for squirrels it’s: Sciuridae.
        Yours is: Yellow Apteryx.

      • jeez randawg, sounds like you’re a loyal & dedicated Scientology fan – bravo!

        ( ..btw, be sure to say ‘hi’ to John and Tom from me
        – loved them in that Godfather movie 🙂 )

    • If I find the chest, I’ve considered moving the fam to NZ. My wife is only semi-on board though so prob wouldn’t happen.

  15. DO NOT attempt to visit New Zealand. You might die in a plane crash. It’s rare but it COULD happen. If you are planning a trip there call it off now. Yeah, I know that MANY people go to and from New Zealand quite safely month after month. But believe me then CHANCE of a plane crash outweighs the excitement of a visit. Don’t be stupid. Do the right thing.

    • Sparrow

      i will happily meet you on our coastline if you ever decide to swim over here for a visit.
      watch out for sharks though, apparently they’re dangerous too

      ( ..we should ban them, i reckon 🙂 )

      • Can you actually fly to Middle-earth?, And why would a sparrow need an airplane?
        I’m so confused…

      • ban them? I am so confuse. If only the sharks could be banned? that would be good for the country banned the sharks, so politicall… the sharks are feasting I reckon . I always loved the word reckon!

      • in a word, MJ.. ‘hyperbolic humour’ 🙁

        although, i must confess to being a massive ‘Jaws’ fan too
        ( ..esp loved him the that 80’s James Bond movie 🙂 )

  16. Hey JDA,

    How’s your search going? Weren’t you going around this weekend?

    Covert One

    • was wondering the same, Slurbs/lucky dog, tbh,
      as am also keen to post some (hard-learned) lessons on the topic of off-track bush-stuff, too.

      but i’m pretty sure that Dal & Goofyness-ball, have just matured another (highly anonymous) batch of moonshine recently

      ..and a special ‘popcorn sutton’ vintage too, apparently!
      ( ..ikr? – tsk tsk! 🙁 )

      c’mon, i’m pretty sure we should make them ‘walk the plank’ on this one, guys!? …i mean[BANNED!!]

      [HoD admin have never even heard of uncle Popcorn Sutton fyi ..officially]

      • I wish I could have a couple of drinks of. Good moonshine, there is nothing like good moonshine!

  17. It’s impossible…said pride.
    It’s risky…said experience.
    It’s pointless…said reason.
    Give it a try…whispered the heart.

    Unknown author…the heart of every searching soul.

  18. It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

    • Thanks Covert one – so well stated. My most intense memories are those where I dared greatly, felt adrenaline charging through my veins. I’ve always believed the dance of life is for those who step onto the dance floor….and there is no place for wall flowers where the wild flowers blossom in mountain meadows. Wish I were still young and healthy enough to climb Blaze Mountain in the spring and ski the blaze, or cliff rappel in the Gallatin Canyon.

  19. Too far to walk
    Tar foot= black foot river
    Put in below the home of brown
    Scotty brown bridge. Lol This poem is to addicting. Fenn you got the beale Papers beat.

      • Steve: “Movies lie to you.” Terrific movie, but that ain’t the Blackfoot.

    • I first read about the Beale “treasure hunt” in 1965. I even tried, then, to decode the paper(s). But I now believe it’s a hoax. And like so many old treasure (and Bible) stories, it gets embellished and exaggerated over the years. So far, I still believe in the Fenn treasure, and am getting ready to make my third thousand-dollar search trip . . . to the same location. My solve hasn’t changed, except for getting more and more “focused”. Hee hee! All IMO.

  20. Hi, folks! My first time posting here on this site. And just so you all know, I have not made any trips out west yet, but I plan on taking my first trip – and possibly only one – hopefully very soon (perhaps within the next 3 weeks). I currently live in CT, but have recently saved enough funds to make a run out there; prior to the end of my current 3-month contract job running out, mind you. (I was recently unemployed for 10 consecutive months prior to finding this new job, so I am definitely hoping for a bit of luck in finding this chest!)

    Because of my distance, I’ve patiently been preparing a “one-trip” solve for nearly 2 1/2 years now, and I feel that I’ve come up with a pretty strong starting point to take a shot at it. Hopefully, that is! Lol. Anyway, I just wanted to say a quick “hello” to all my fellow treasure-hunters out there!

    Good luck to you one and all, and let’s just hope and pray that FF doesn’t cancel said hunt and/or give out any more clues to this thing. 🙂

    I’ll make a later post about how my future hunt goes (whether it’s profitable or not.) Take care, folks!

    Mr. B

    • Thanks for posting, Seeker from the East!

      Welcome to the search, and good luck on when you finally head out West for the search! Make sure to plan out some fun things to do & see while you’re out here completely outside of your search for the chest. You’ll be cheating yourself if not (EVEN if you do find the treasure!).

      Good luck, Huzzah, & Excelsior!

      • Thanks for the kind advice, Blex. And yes, I am definitely planning some fun activities during my treasure-hunt adventure. I will actually be taking my nephew with me, who recently graduated from high school just a few hours ago. Perhaps some hiking, rafting, zip-lining, etc.

        Can’t wait though, I’m excited about it! But damn, do I hate flying! Lol. I do wish though that these 4 search states were a tad closer to me right now. Oh well, Cest’ la vie!

        Take care,

    • “Pretty strong” isn’t good enough, IMO. But enjoy the trip,
      the hike, and the adventure. Please emphasize safety. Don’t
      hike alone.

  21. Saying I’m on the right path doesn’t really give anyone grounds to believe I am and the pictures I have wouldn’t make any sense unless I explained how I found the things I took pictures of. But if I did that I’d give the game away. And this game is way too much fun for that.

    So I’m just going to pack up my car and go try and find it. If my solve is correct, then I apologize for breaking the map. That was a jerk move and an accident, I think… If your solve is dangerous, maybe you should wait a few weeks just in case I’m right.

    Once upon a time I read a poem that led me to a place. When I stood in that place there seemed to me to be an obvious thing to do, so I did it. When I was done, it seemed obvious to me to go to another place where there was another thing that begged me to do something else, so I did that too. And when I was done with that it told me to look for another place, which I have good reason to believe will be the last place, and it promises to be thrilling.

    It seems like the farther I go down the rabbit hole the easier it should become but it’s just not that way. It’s difficult the whole time. And even though every place I’ve found is different, they are all the same.

    So riddle me this Batman, what if you had to solve the poem more than once? What would the blaze be then?

  22. Hi All — this morning on KFI-AM 640 in Los Angeles, Bill Handel spent his final 30-minute segment on Forrest Fenn. He started by mentioning Pastor Paris Wallace (and later Randy) and so I thought it would just be a short segment about the calls by some to end the Chase. But no, he backed up and covered a lot of Forrest’s life: his time in the Air Force, getting shot down over Laos in the Vietnam War, opening a gallery in Santa Fe with his wife Peggy, becoming a very prominent and successful art dealer with many celebrity clients (none named), and being diagnosed with kidney cancer in 1988. Bill mentioned Forrest’s plan to fill a treasure chest with gold coins, gold nuggets, precious jewels and even his 20,000-word autobiography sealed in a glass jar, secret it somewhere in the Rocky Mountains, and with his last dying breath throw his body on top of the chest — in essence inviting searchers to rob his grave, a la an Egyptian Pharaoh.

    But Bill went on to say, of course, that Forrest recovered, and that the chest remained at his house for the next 20 years, during which time he added some items, and removed others. Finally, he hid it, and self-published his memoir The Thrill of the Chase with an initial run of 1000 copies that is now up to over 20,000 sold. And Bill pointed out that Forrest wasn’t in it for the money: he donated all the books to the bookstore in Santa Fe (not named in the story), though he didn’t mention the bit about requiring that 10% of the gross sales go to a cancer charity. Handel made a slight mistake by saying that Forrest claimed that a few searchers had been within 500 feet (but no mention of 200 feet).

    After a commercial break, Handel finished by reciting the entire poem (with quite a few mistakes), and his other on-air personalities had a little fun speculating on what it meant and how in the world anyone would find it. Naturally some fixated on “Brown’s House (sic)” suggesting that surely some locals close to the chest’s location would know what that meant. Hah! All in all it was a pretty good story, and I was surprised how much time he devoted to it.

    Now I learn that Forrest will be on NBC News tonight to say something about the Chase. I think the consensus is that he will provide some information intended to improve searchers’ safety (as opposed to giving a new clue about the chest’s location). Since three searchers have drowned (yes, I realize one of them isn’t “official” yet, but I think we all know it eventually will be), perhaps Forrest will say something restrictive about water’s involvement in any solution. I guess we’ll know soon enough.

      • Hi Toby/All: no one else has mentioned it yet, but there ~was~ a short story on Forrest Fenn on NBC Nightly News last night (Sunday), so perhaps the original rumor source was simply off a day.There was no new footage from Forrest, just a rehash of the news of Pastor Wallace, Randy, calls for the Chase to end, etc. No new information, and in fact their information was outdated because they said Forrest hadn’t yet decided whether he was going to end it.

  23. Like everything in life, you have to be careful and use the common sense that the Lord has given you. Going into the Rockies as though nothing can touch you is crazy. For the 3 who have died, may God bless their souls, they’re many thousands who have made it out just fine, and I am one of them, I have been on 2 BOTG so far, I had to abort the first one because of Mountain Sickness, I knew that I had to go to a lower level, and there was nothing that I could do about it at the time but regroup. That officer and others who are pushing for Forrest to retrieve the chest and call the whole thing off isn’t going to stop anyone from dying in the Rockies from now on, death can and will happen with one wrong move/turn, an encounter with a wild animal (Lion, Grizzly, etc.), an emergency such as a heart attack or stroke while being so far away from help. Life is a gamble, and the treasure chest has nothing to do with that fact of life. What next?, no camping, no rock climbing, no fishing from a boat, no snow/water skiing, no bull riding, no going any faster than 55mph on our highways all over, no riding motorcycles, and the list goes on. So, don’t blame that poor little chest full of goodies or Forrest Fenn for being generous enough to give all of us an opportunity to strike it rich! Forrest Fenn put it on the line telling all of us searchers that we have to take responsibility for our own actions, we are not made of steel, but of flesh and bones. If the task is too big for us than we should not go out there risking life and limb….and for some, financial security.

  24. Irony at its best.

    I wonder why the NM Police Chief has not appealed to kayaking and hiking proponents/operators to cease these operations as it appears by the articles that these activities are inherently dangerous and tragedy may occur.

    The last two articles were on the contact site for the ABQ Journal staff writer. ( Not blaming the media…Mr. Carrillo is just doing his job).

    Is Forrest Fenn’s treasure hunt losing its luster?
    By Edmundo Carrillo / Journal Staff Writer
    Friday, June 23rd, 2017 at 12:05am

    Santa Fe man drowns while on kayaking trip near Pilar
    By Edmundo Carrillo / Journal Staff Writer
    Monday, June 12th, 2017 at 5:28pm

    Missing hiker found dead near Taos after apparent fall
    By Edmundo Carrillo / Journal Staff Writer
    Wednesday, June 7th, 2017 at 11:45am

    From the ABQ Journal:
    While the State Police chief wants the hunt called off, the state Tourism Department has long encouraged people to come to New Mexico to look for Fenn’s treasure.

    Therein lies the rub.

  25. Sandy, on the last leg of your hike you’ll pass the CD and start downward. After you pass the trail to poison park, and flint creek you’ll drop down a level through a rocky area. Then about a mile farther you’ll pop out in a opening from there you should be able to see ribbon falls if you go about 3/4 mile farther there is a nice place to camp along the edge of pine river. From there you have a great view of the falls…..
    P.s when you reach the fence for granite peaks ranch you’ll have 3 miles to go to the parking area…….
    Have a great time and be safe my friend….take lots of pics…
    Until next time… see ya

  26. How hard was it to write the poem and not give the location away?
    F: “It was not hard at all. I just had to stay focused.”

    If you’re looking for the location in the poem, I think you should look elsewhere like his books & other writings.

      • I didn’t say it my love.
        It’s what F said that counts, not my input but I think the books & writings can get you further.

      • I know this is a big blow for the poem purists & others that like to look at all the avenues, but this comment by him is after the “all you need is the poem” statement.

        Lots of bad stuff has happened since then & time changes everything.

        All seekers form the West to the East take notice.

        • Jake my love your absolutely right it’s in the poem, I’m feeling a little ambitious and compulsive. I miss you soo much cant wait too meet you!!!!!!!

    • Jake, I think the same way. More understanding the poem itself is needed to find it. The words of descriptions in the poem need to be figured out and understood in order for the poem to be followed as a map. IMO. The Double Omega, I believe, represents this concept. 1 Omega is the poem, the other Omega is the storied meanings within the words in the poem.IMO. It takes two hands to shake. IMO.

      • Alsetenash,
        We have different meanings for the double Omegas though.
        I think the 1st Omega is a bend in the Firehole River where his bathing spot was near Ojo Caliente.

        The second Omega is also a bend in your creek in that shape where the treasure is hidden.

        “the relevance of the double omegas will go to the grave with the man who wrote the poem”

        “Go to the grave”
        The treasure is hidden where he wanted to die….

        • Nice pic and catch Jake.

          I have never heard of the quote before- “the relevance of the double omegas will go to the grave with the man who wrote the poem”

          Who is being quoted? It may be obvious but I am not sure due to the 3rd person wording

          • He is clearly talking about himself and using 3rd person wording just to make it sound a little open ended as he tends to do. I think it is a great mindset he has toward answering any questions in order to intentionally not be clear.

          • Aaron, yes he sure does that well. Just never heard the quote before and was wondering if It was FF that said that because there was no ff sig reference . Figured it was FF, just wanted to be sure….dare not to assume sometimes

    • Jake Love, where are you, i loved the U2 music!
      Sweetheart, what are you doing, right now, I just have to know, because I have always wanted to know everything!
      But we are limited to a certain point , I’m still waiting!!

      • I don’t want to know everything, Martha my dear.
        What a burden that would be.

        I’m dancing barefoot on the sands of time.

        • Now the ole coot says the treasure is covered in mudddddddd. Putting up the cowboy boots. Reading out the muck boots

          • All covered in mudd in the wilderness where it’s hidden. Who said that then the reporter

          • Yep the reporter in his article said it, just like other reporters continually assume it’s buried, and even more assume it’s in New Mexico, and even a few reporters write in their articles that it’s narrowed down to Arizona and Utah with the other states 😉

          • Has Forrest let everyone know that he DID say this?

            No quotes from Forrest, No “Forrest told me this”, therefore it’s ramblings of another reporter that cannot get anything right. Come on Gypsy, I have noticed you to be brighter than this. 😛

          • I just know sometimes Forrest slips ups and says things to. But yea your right if he ain’t come out and said it to everyone probley ain’t true I need to drink a V8 hahaha

  27. Anyone wonder why the ole coot wears that purple sweater all the time even in the heat lol look at the map in too far to walk he wore it to fennboree Huge hint for Yellowstone

    • Hi DG – I made a connection with his purple sweater much the same as his blue shirts and jeans. IMO Forrest has given 100’s of hints over the years but none of them stick unless you can solve the clues in the poem.

      • I ain’t used his bathroom I wouldn’t know lol next time I’ll tell him I gotta go mister realllllll bad hahahaha

        • Hey,
          You gotta go, you got to go.
          The SB should be good enough.
          Peek-a-Boo Art

          I hope JDA is surviving the high altitude & comes back with a tude.

          • Hi Diggin’: JDA searches Wyoming (not Yellowstone) and only Wyoming. I think he said this weekend would be his 14th trip to the same general location. I wish him and his family safe travels and safe searching.

          • This is a man that thinks there are 5 blazes.
            I’m surprised he is not searching Idaho.

            Where are you JDA???
            It’s time to eat your pie.

          • He doesn’t wonder around WY Hma.
            He’s got a specific place which is within the search zone.
            Yours right about not being in YNP
            I’ll spill the beans.

            It’s in The Shoshone.

          • DG –

            “Why is he doing that lol it’s not there hehe”

            That’s a good question. Either JDA has figured something out that nobody else has or he doesn’t like the fact that Forrest titled a chapter in TTOTC, In Love With Yellowstone, that he spent summers up to age 20 in Yellowstone and nearby, he continues to share stories about Yellowstone and the region, and he has been back to Yellowstone and the surrounding area many times after age 20. Since Forrest admits that he’s not trying to trick anyone, I tend to believe that he really does love the Yellowstone area. That’s just me though.

          • NBC Nightly news is now airing a story about the treasure hunt. Same old crappy points by the sheriff. Randy’s wife condemned the search. So sad to see all the lousy coverage.

          • Jake, I’ve created a flowchart in Visio Pro recording each senario in which you will eat your hat.

          • Golden Retrievers,
            Email me a copy cause I’ve lost track on some.
            i do have most though & will stick by my word.

          • Jake, That was just a joke – I didn’t really create a flowchart. If I had created a flowchart listing everytime you said you’d eat your hat – I’d need a bigger computer!

        • You seem confident Jake.

          500 bucks says there turns out to be a min of 4 blazes.

          • “those who start out by looking for the blaze, are wasting their time.f”
            “The blaze”

            “I mean there’s people driving down the street looking for a blaze, because that’s one of the clues. ”
            “a blaze”

            I will eat my hat if there is more than one blaze. Keep your 500 & spend it wisely.

          • None of those quotes are relevant to what Ive said.

            How about a buck with a signed admission of defeat on it that I can have framed instead?

          • You’ll have to be more specific AkB.
            “Signed admission of defeat”
            Defeat of what?

            I am confident all the times I said I will eat my hat, I did not say I will eat my hat if I do not find it. I am not too confident on any of my solves.

          • The bet is about the number of blazes. I say min of 4. Neither of us need find the treasure to win but someone will have to or ff would have to give it as a clue.

            On my dollar you can write, “AkB you were right. You are wise beyond your years and the most handsome of us all. I admit my defeat and relinquish this dollar as evidence of your cleverness. Luv, Jake.”

          • You sure you wanna do this AkB?

            I can post lots of quotes by F about the blaze & none seem to indicate many or 4 blazes.

            I’m not sure how long you’ve been at this & how thorough you’ve been.

            What makes you think there are at least 4 blazes?

          • Jake, my new friend and treasure hunting rival, I am sure. I’ve been at this awhile. I’d elaborate but then you might not take the bet.

            Do we have an accord? Maybe Dal or some other trustworthy hunter would be willing to hold the spoils in trust?

          • AkB TH1138

            your quasi-pyseudo-intellectual interpretation of ‘the blaze’, fails to negate the fact that ‘the(e) blaze’ is simply a singular statement (i.e. non-plural) ..according to common language

            oh well – 12/10 for your ‘distorted imagination’ tho..
            ( ..& esp for valiantly arguing that fact 🙂 )

          • Pack of wolves.
            Flock of geese.
            Group of fools.
            Blaze of a trail.

            I’m pretty sure thats how nouns work. I used to collect them as a kid.

            Theres also an eloquence of lawyers but Ive been around three decades and Ive never met an elegant lawyer.

            Careful with the words hobbit, they are too big for you.

  28. I just realized all the national parks are purple lol but Yellowstone a lot of purple

      • Speaking of maps, someone here mentioned that GE updated their maps and the zoom sucks. Is anyone else having this issue? Seems like NM is okay but the close in zoom above the NM state line is really poor. Anyone know if that’s a temporary thing, or not?

          • I live in Canada and checked GE for here and the 4 US States. GE zoom clarity looks the same.It doesn’t appear to have changed and is the same clarity. Perhaps it is just a temporary glitch originating in the US somewhere.

  29. Dal, if you are still collecting Mountain Safety Tips, allow me to add a tip of my own. SPOT is a GPS location device which allows the user to send out an SOS signal to local SARS at the push of a button. SPOT also has a button to send recipients of your choice an I’M OK, NO NEED TO WORRY/JUST CHECKING IN message which is sent with the users GPS location. SPOT also has a button to send out an I NEED HELP message to a recipient of the users choice (this is not a Search And Rescue call out). SPOT also comes with option to purchas SARS INSURANCE at a very low price. SPOT also alows the user to send out a GPS signal at set intervals so the user can have a record of their path of travel.
    I own a SPOT. Service doesn’t cost a lot compared to cost one can end up with by not having one. I send an I’m ok message to my wife and to each of my children, whom are adults while I’m out seeking Indulgence and when out Big Game hunting. I can use it to mark where I have an elk harvested or to call for help if my vehicle is inoperable. I leave information with my wife about who to call if I send out the I NEED A HELPING HAND signal. On a somber note, I read a story of a man who had his SPOT set up to send a GPS location out hourly so that his spouse could track him. When his location had not changed for three hours, she called Search And Rescue. In the end, the man had accident and fell to his death. SARS was able to use his GPS location to find him in a timely manner. It could have taken months to locate him if at all. If he’d suffered a broken leg or a concussion, he may have been able to be rescued.
    I recommend searchers get a SPOT device. They are small and can be hand held. I wear mine around my neck while hiking or clip it to my belt (the clip feature is designed to where there is no way it is accidentally coming off my belt). I think my SARS insurance is $10 per year for $100,000, but I’m not positive. I’ll have to check. My SPOT, I believe, is $99 per year and I think that includes the insurance. SPOT also has other products like a satellite phone which allows a user to make and receive calls from just about anywhere on the surface of the Earth including the oceans. I trust in my SPOT.

    • Slurbs, I agree whole heartedly. I’ve used both the Spot and Delorme InReach. I prefer the InReach. If someone doesn’t want a subscription service they can get a PLB (personal locator beacon). I recommend anyone that is considering getting one of these devices to do the research and decide which one is right for them.

      Here’s a short article about the devices:

      The most important things one can take into the wilderness is outdoor survival skills, good judgment, and adaptability. If an individual is gravely deficient in one or more of these areas, there is nothing they can put in a pack that will save their lives.

      Lots of people die everyday from doing stupid things. Like sending a text message on your satellite device while driving and having your survival kit hit you in the back of the head killing you in the crash.

      This incident just gets lots of attention because the bureaucracy doesn’t like Fenn.

      • Goofy…
        “This incident just gets lots of attention because the bureaucracy doesn’t like Fenn.” What makes you say that? He seems to have plenty of friends in the right places. Besides his run in w/Feds…is there more?

        • Ken,
          I’m not going to answer for Goofy. I’m sure his reasoning might be the same as mind… but I’m going to take it a step further with silly examples of the stupid of law makers and law enforcement.
          In TX it is law that you can defend your vehicle as if it was part of your home… cost, could hurt your livelihood, cause financial problems beyond your control etc.
          In TN If you leave your key in the car [example warming it up in your driveway in winter] you can be fined, even if it’s on your tax paying property.
          Also in TN you can have a loaded firearm in your car[handgun] without a permit to carry, but the state requires a permit to carry of you property. This has lead to more break in of vehicles and firearm thief… mainly because folks think it’s now safe to leave the firearm in the car at all times.
          In NY your required to have a carry permit if a residence of the state of NY, but if your not a resident of NYC, even with a NY state hand gun permit, you will be arrested for carrying that fire arm in NYC, while NYC residence [8 million of them ] can carry anywhere in the state of NY.

          Those examples imo, show the mentality of attempting to control people without much thought process [ another words, jumping into act before thinking ] THAT is bureaucracy at its stupidity [ and more common then most think]. IF they don’t like something, they make a law or complain something should be done to stop it… like telling a person not to hide a cache for others to find or go get it because folks are looking for it.
          I would not be surprised the next thing we hear is, NM having new legislation to band this type of activity. OR at least in certain areas or in certain counties.

          Look at what was attempted, or talked about, by park officials, to be done in YSP, Banned all ff treasure hunters from looking for the chest. It’s perfectly find if folks get lost, injured, die in these areas…just as long as it’s considered an approved activity that officials [bureaucracy] deem to be ok, by their standards only.

          Like, not making public who visits MY “White House”…

          Goofy, I did like your comment about [ set in Asterix] ~
          The most important things one can take into the wilderness is outdoor survival skills, ***good judgment, and adaptability.*** If an individual is gravely deficient in one or more of these areas, there is nothing they can put in a pack that will save their lives.

          • Seeker…thanx for all of the scenarios. I understand perfectly the wacky idiots that try to lead/make policy. I was looking for more specific examples in Fenn’s regard…if there are. I dance to my own music and often do not abide…sometimes I need reminding.

        • Ken, his problems with bureaucracy are well documented. It’s not hard to find if you want to do a little research………Archaeologists for the Navajo and other Indian nations have been after him for years. And government archaeologists in general don’t like him, he gave a speech in Albuquerque to a meeting of prominent archaeologists whom many of them were upset he was even allowed to speak.

          Here’s his “Mother of Indiana Jones” article which upset academia:

          He had a lot of trouble with the bureaucracy, and ruffled some feathers, setting up the Russian expositions.

          There are many more examples; Fenn is a guy that bumps the curbs as he puts it. Like landing on a private golf course to deliver an item to a client. You gotta like the guy for stirring the pot if for no other reason.

          • Thanks for responding Goofy…those examples are well documented, and yes…Fenn is an anomaly in the archaeology world. Their facts are convenient to their beliefs and anyone that disputes the science of it has no friends. Great topic…and a good pot stirring is needed all around ! Fennboree should present Forrest with a big blue apron and bronze spoon.

      • I have the Inreach. Get one soon if you want one. They have been bought out by Garmin. The new Garmin version is more expensive. Garmin supports the Inreach.


        Windy City

      • Good link about personal locator beacons and the differences between them and subscription based devices.

    • Slurbs, agree with all your comments on the SPOT. I have both the SPOT and the InReach. I like the InReach because of its ability to do two way messaging by satellite. With the SPOT you have to just trust someone got your message and is on their way. I ended up giving the SPOT to my wife for road trips as there’s an option to link one of the buttons directly to roadside assist but typically use the InReach for trips into the wilderness. Either of these is far better than nothing and can be an absolute life saver in a situation where you are out of cell phone range and in need of help.

      • The 2 way communication feature is why I chose the Inreach.


        Windy City

    • You can use this even when driving to let loved ones know you are ok.

      I haven’t shared this yet, because it was really upsetting, but on the way HOME from recent search, driving through ID on a well-maintained highway, a woman in an SUV with kids in it and camping gear in the back, passed me and a few minutes later had gone off the road, overcorrected across two lanes, through a fence, flipped several times and landed upside down on a train track. She was airlifted but died on the way, just like that. The kids were all ok; they were wearing seatbelts, she was ejected. I can still see her driving by, looking down. 🙁

      Many of us are driving long distances. Cars are more dangerous than bears.

      • I have seen this so many times myself….preventable, damn straight it is.

        The problem is Smart phones, or drowsy drivers, even if the crash doesn’t kill them, the resulting property damage could bankrupt them. [ a perfect example is the rented moving truck we had to slow down for, crashed on it’s side with it’s top ripped open, owner’s contents spilled out on I-70, the owner’s car still attached to the rented trailer/ except the car in now upside-down- trailer on top….No added insurance or damage waiver is ever going to pay for that person’s stupidity.]

        This year we saw at least 3 wrecks where folks ran off the road, last year just 1.

        If you have to check your phone pull over. If you’re drowsy pull over, get some rest.

  30. Breaking News: New Mexico State Police Search for Man Missing in Pecos River. He was swimming with friends. Awaiting comment from the Commander of the State Police about closing down swimming in New Mexico Rivers. Asked NMSAR on their Facebook page if we could expect another survey on whether or not people should be allowed to swim in rivers.

    • Toby MY – are you suggesting that ‘swimming in rivers with friends’ is still actually currently legal within our civilised nations??

      i mean… it could be ‘fun’ or something!! 🙁

      ( ..tsk tsk!! 🙂 )

  31. … apologies if the following article has already been linked, and I somehow missed the link.

    From NBC News, posted Saturday evening, June 24th, latter half of article reads:
    “New Mexico State Police Chief Pete Kassetas has since asked Fenn to discourage people from searching for the chest.

    “People start to make decisions that aren’t based in good sound judgment when it comes to money,” Kassetas said.

    Bilyeu’s ex-wife, Linda Bilyeu, echoed Kassetas’ concerns, telling NBC News that the hunt is “ludicrous, out of control, dangerous and it should be stopped.”

    But [Cynthia] Meachum disagrees, and said Fenn’s treasure has actually encouraged people to visit New Mexico — spurring a sort boon for tourism.

    “In 2015, Santa Fe Mayor (Javier) Gonzales presented Forrest with a proclamation to the city because of all the tourism he was bringing into Santa Fe and northern New Mexico,” she said.

    When Bilyeu went missing, Fenn orchestrated a personal search for the hiker. He has yet to say publicly whether he would call off the treasure hunt after the recent death of Wallace.

    Fenn suggested in an email this week to The Times that he’d like for people to keep searching.

    “If someone drowns in the swimming pool we shouldn’t drain the pool,” he wrote, “we should teach people to swim.”
    Ken (in Texas)

    • Texas Ken – good post!

      and personally agree with Forrests wise and logical analogy, as ‘personal sense & sensibility’ lays squarely on the shoulders of the adult individual human, bar none.

      and anyone whom attempts to remove that rightful liberty, fails miserably in the face of moral freedom. imho

      ( ..i mean, don’t you guys have a Constitutiony-amendment-thingy, regarding that sorta malarkey?? 🙂 )

      • I have had Lyme disease for over 6 years. It does not go away. If you are in an area that has ticks that carry the disease, do your homework. Use appropriate repellants and wear protective clothing. Do a self check after returning from hiking and remove ticks in the correct manner. Get treatment immediately if bitten and save tick to be tested. Lyme disease has changed the way I plan for outings.

    • You SHOULD go. But if you become another statistic, it makes life more difficult for the rest of us. Please don’t hike alone. And use bug repellent. Wear tall hiking boots and tall (knee-high?) socks and long pants. You could tape around the bottoms of the pant legs (i.e., tape them to your boots, leaving some slack on the length, but making a narrower “pathway”
      for ticks).

    • Road Hawk,
      The Wapiti area is another interesting place to hide the treasure.
      Some day I will set course for that cabin along the creek.

      Flows right into Taylor.

      • Yes I know it well going to try to go there tomorrow and camp along Sage Creek if there’s a spot available.

        • Make sure you close the gate behind you.
          You don’t want their horses to get free.

          I suppose you could get there from Wapiti.
          Have fun.

        • Be safe out there RH….we’d hate to see you being referenced by the State Police.


          Safety is priority….and never hike alone.


  32. Just wondering…

    Didn’t FF say last year “leave your partner in the car” ?
    I recall a lot of comments about it. Now he says searching
    with 3 or 4 people is good? Any comments?

    • I remember reading that. Like you, I am confused by that remark. It seems to be a contradiction.

    • I favor hiking in groups. His comment about leaving your
      partner in the car made NO sense to me, although FF has
      been known to be EXTREMELY clever . . . and in my opinion, quite misleading sometimes. So after thinking about his comment for a while, I decided that he may truthfully have meant that one should leave your search partner in the car while it is being driven on a freeway. FF didn’t specifically say that one should leave one’s search partner in the car while one is actually searching for the TC. Understand? I sure do.

    • *If you have a searching partner, best to have them wait in the car. f

      metal detector?

      wait -> unneeded weight?

      9 Eclipse

      • “a searching partner” One

        “have them wait in the car” Them is 2 or more & are not searching partners which you have no “partnership” with them.

        Tells me to be careful who you search with & have a partner you can trust.

      • i like your thinking DQ9..

        ..and if R2D2 ever goes missing, i’ll know who to call 🙂

    • Yea 3 to 4 people who are hiking in the woods far away from
      The treasure Forrest parked and left the dog in the car while he hid the treasure close
      To the car . My theory the treasure isn’t far from where he parked

      • Dg,
        can you cite where forrest said that he left his dog in the car or is that privileged information?

        • Your partner, dog, friend, gun, support, phone, the point being it isn’t far from the car. Diggin gypsy’s partner must be a crystal ball the way she can read a mind.

        • I just made that up my own scenario I mean if he tells us to leave our search partner in the car I just pretended he brought the dog

          • I think he means that someone will need to be in the car to guard the chest or treasure while you go back and get the other 1/2.

          • I don’t think so. If you and your partner each had a backpack, one could carry the chest while the other carried the contents. No need for 2 trips with 2 people. JMHO.

          • pdenver,

            Hopefully, will be able to read your great pennings!

            I often experience that same problem; especially if …..

      • Diggin gypsy, I agree that FF probably parked kinda close to the hidey place. (This is not intended as a recommendation that we try to park kinda close to the hidey place.) Please don’t underestimate him. I
        never do. Tick, tick, tick.

    • He is saying if you have to walk in the woods with 3 or 4 people you ain’t looking in the right area. One can sit in the car and stare at the other one going to get it. And the one in the car can also honk if they see a Grizz coming hehe

  33. My guess would be that it was safely placed at a trusted location for a period of time before it was actually secreted .


    • I’m trying to picture this possibility, yet, I’m finding to difficult to understand why he might do it this way. Would you be so kind to give an example of why Mr. Fenn might have done it this way, please? I feel that if he was there to hide the treasure chest in this particular area, or exact area, why wouldn’t he just hide it rather than wait before doing so?

      • PD, perhaps it was because he hid the treasure in plain sight or in an area that many folks visit but few, if any, pay attention when they are on sight.
        Just a random thought that occurred to my after reading your interesting question.

        • i’m with pdenver on this one, ‘mr. bob sir’
          (albeit, she’s a massive trouble-maker! 🙂 )

          but why delay whilst hiding a secret treasure?
          ..& how could it be ‘hidden in plain sight’, yet also be ‘unlikely to be stumbled upon accidentally by accident’ ..not a quote JDA

          i mean.. surely ‘keeping a highly-anonymous secret’ should be conducted with the upmost efficiency, in order to be successfully effective in it’s execution (?)

          • relax pdenver!
            ..jus reiterating what Focused told me (secretly) ages ago..’tis all

            ‘don’t shoot the messenger’ .. 🙂

          • ummm.. yes & no, in a sorta round-about type of way, pdenver…
            – it’s complicated 🙁

            ( ..but shhh – i promised him i won’t say anything ..naturally 🙂 )

          • Have you ever seen the very real -looking but fake giant rocks and logs?

            They aren’t heave and would make a perfect hiding spot.

    • I think that is a possibility also. First testing the spot that it was to be secreted. After testing period results were finalized, the final act commenced. Purely speculation on my part but any thought of anything opens anything as being possible.

      • (Second try.) Hope I can remember my train of thought. I keep thinking that if he knew where he wanted to place the treasure chest to begin with, then he would know how safe it would be to do so without anyone “accidentally” coming across it. If he had done a “trial period” and someone did find it, then what? I don’t know. Maybe I’m being stubborn with my thoughts.

        • This is just speculation on my part.

          With this thought of mine, an idea precedes a decision. To him , this place, this spot is special-it is his private special place (paraphrasing). He thinks about this idea of poem, treasure chest and bones. The spot is secluded and no human trail close by and anyone can get there fairly easily. Though, by simple logistics of the area, it is highly unlikely anyone would go there unless on purpose . More reasons for not than there are for why they would. Though, it is possible someone could happen by to the spot because FF himself happened to discover this spot. He did, so then could someone else. So, testing the spot for potential happenstance of people coming to this spot began , say. How he might have tested this is another topic in of it self. So, let’s say the testing period was years and he continued to come to this spot periodically during those years. So, let’s say the testing results favoured the idea. Then the decision was made for action and the rest is the history of there here and the now. Where could he have stored it during this time, I don’t know but there are limitless ideas. His nephew or grandson ( can’t remember at the moment ) as Dal had posted, said that to his best memory recollection said (paraphrasing)he saw the chest on FF’s dining room table in 2009. Does this mute this speculation of mine? That is only a one sentence answer that is inherently vague of details that begs many questions-topic in of itself

          Within this possibility questioned of where could he have temporarily put it before the hide. I jùst think about the possibility that no one outside of his family actually knows everything he owns; land , houses, property etc. He could go to any one of his assets for a day or weekend then go to his special spot. On this note, I beleive the spot is not on any private land but a public wilderness area.

          All this is just speculation

          • JPS. With all that FF has said , I don’t think it is on private land. Most likely at a public wilderness area that people and animals are free to roam about. Pretty safe from development for any foreseeable future is my thinking and no digging required . This is what I think from all the things FF has said about this chase. IMO.

          • Alsetenash: correct. Not on private land. Quote from Santa Fe New Mexican this weekend:

            “And Fenn has cautioned searchers against trespassing on private or tribal land and cemeteries, saying the treasure is not hidden there.”

          • I always knew it wasn’t on private land. Crazy for people to even think it was I’m
            Surprised more people haven’t been arrested for getting on private land in the search .

          • Hi Diggin’: Last week I went back to Toby’s Moby Dickens bookstore video for the umpteenth time and transcribed the Q&A of the second question asked by a woman in the audience (anyone happen to know who she was)?

            Woman: “If you follow the poem precisely, will you find yourself switching back?”

            Forrest: “If you follow the clues in the poem precisely, would I what?”

            Woman: “Will you find yourself switching back? (delay) Making a loop.”

            Forrest: “This gal’s dangerous! Would I find myself switching back. Well I think I can say ‘no’ to that without giving away too much of the clue. Uh … nobody is going to happen on that treasure chest. You’re going to have to figure out the clues in the poem, and go to it. There are several people that have deciphered the first two clues. I don’t think they knew it because they walked right on past the treasure chest. Uh, and I’m not going to tell those people who they are, because one of them particularly would faint, I know, and tear the countryside up trying to figure out where they’d been.”

            If I had to guess based on where I think the chest resides and where you’ve been concentrating your searches, Diggin’, I’d say you’re the one that Forrest thinks would faint. 😉 So you just have to focus on all the places you’ve been prior to November 2nd, 2013, LOL!

          • Well I hope it was and listen closely to that interview he said I don’t think she knew she was that close. And then he switched up and said they

          • You’re absolutely right, DG: I went back and listened again with the volume way up and there’s an understated “she’d” that Forrest slipped in there. So the correct transcript is:

            “Uh, and I’m not going to tell those people who they are, because one of them particularly would faint, I know, and she’d tear the countryside up trying to figure out where they’d been.”

            Starts at the 8:40 mark of this YouTube link:

          • Yea I love that she ddddddd lol gives me a little hope. Was around the time he wrote all those stories on me so that’s why I never stray from west Yellowstone I’ll keep retraceing my steps

        • pdenver and Alsetenash,

          The Flyer has said that it would not be “stumbled” upon.

          Inasmuch as I have confidence in the secreting process theory that I penned above, it would be prudent, IMO, that you refer to the following piece written by George Venn. It may reveal something ‘reminiscent’ to methods as have been expressed by The Flyer within his memoirs; The Thrill of The Chase:


          Note the *

          Let me know your thoughts, if any.


          • What if…

            The treasure was hidden so as not to
            be stumbled upon, agreed, but what
            about the blaze? By very definition it
            is a mark / marker meant to be seen,
            meant to locate the chest nearby.
            Yes, it is not near a trail or path but
            that doesn’t preclude hunters who
            go into trackless woods hunting
            game or antlers or mushrooms, etc.
            The wood I’ve searched was devoid
            of any antlers, scoured clean as it
            were, and certainly easy to get to
            and into. If you were 200 ft into the
            woods and saw (FOR EXAMPLE)
            a tennis ball container or soda bottle
            or something equally incongruous
            hanging from a tree, would you be
            the slightest bit curious what it might
            be for? Maybe poke around a little
            bit? Maybe find something quite
            by accident?

            Another “What if” …
            What if the blaze was in or on a tree
            and the tree has since fallen over
            and hidden or destroyed the blaze?
            Then the only way to find the hidden
            treasure, in my opinion, would be
            a thorough search of the general
            area with a metal detector. There
            are a lot of downed trees in the
            wood where I’ve been, probably
            a lot more than when FF was there.
            It is one lightning strike away from
            a major fire IMO, as there was on the
            other side of the canyon “recently”.

            Still another “What if”…
            What if the chest has been found
            and the finder decided to keep it
            quiet? $2,000,000 of perfectly
            fungible, untraceable gold and
            gems, etc. would be enough for
            some people regardless of what
            further incentives (IF ANY) FF
            might have put in the chest to
            encourage his notification of its

            FF, to the best of his knowledge,
            does not know if the chest is still
            where he hid it. Searchers may
            be looking for something that is
            no longer there and be only able
            to make a “general solve” now.
            I believe I am one of them that has
            made a general solve, but can’t
            justify continued searching if not
            really really confident that the blaze
            or chest is still there. If I lived much
            closer I would continue, however.
            Happy hunting.

          • Hello SL. Thank you for the link. It’s quite interesting, and it taught me things I hadn’t known about this time period. I believe there may be a correlation between the two in regards to how the stories/poem was written. Both have a way with words to provoke thought.

          • (Second try.) Tried to comment, SL, but it didn’t go through. I’m hoping it can be found and posted.

          • pdenver. If when you hit post comment and you get database error message. Just hit ” back” key or arrow on your screen. You will go back to your message insitu , ready to post. Hit post comment again and it should work. If not ,repeat this step You won’t double post if you don’t change anything in your original comment I have to do this almost every time this past while . Hope this helps.

          • Though it is unlikely that it will be stumbled upon it is a possibility. Like Alset said Fenn somehow stumbled there, though he did when there was probably less human trails. Now that there are a number of trails and designated sites to see people will likely stick to those more. I do find it curious that this spot is special to Fenn and easily accessible yet there has not been a trail made to it. If it is as wonderful as it sounds and easy to get to why not? Is it because the spot is not necessarily that spectacular to the average tourist or were there memorable events that too place for FF there?

          • It won’t be stumbled upon. Because you have to know exactly where to begin. Then and only then can your solution be verified. Once you verify the accuracy of your solution then you can proceed with confidence. However, like any good treasure hunt, obstacles are sure to arise and with each obstacle comes a new way of thinking. Of course this is just the way I see it and my opinion is based solely on questionable* information.

          • (Second try.) Thank you, Alsetenash. It appears when I try to press enter, I get an “internal” message.” Then, I try to press refresh, and I get the “405” message. I’ve tried going back, and my message doesn’t appear. They like Dal’s waste bin, just like Mr. Fenn’s waste basket. 🙂

          • Pdenver, don’t hit refresh when you get that message, you will lose your comment. Just hit back page at top left of your screen and you should go back and see your message as you would before you hit “post comment” . Be sure to mouse click ” post comment” not keyboard “enter” . “Copy” your comment before you attempt post so if you lose it you can paste repost retry. Just go back page , post comment , error , repeat back , post comment until you see it in your mail inbox.

          • SL…my thought is that you are an amazing detective. Thank you for a most interesting link. Is is coincidence or does C E S look an awful lot like what we have believed was C E 5 inscribed you know where? If you follow.

      • The spot is WAY off the “beaten path”. No “testing”
        would have been necessary. All IMO.

  34. Hi Guys;

    Well, back from a fantastic trip into the Wilds of Wyoming. Much richer in experiences, and a lot of new information learned, but no treasure.

    My search team ended up being only my Grandson (from Pennsylvania) and my step-daughter. They were able to get within 100 yards, but even in late June, ran into 3′ of SNOW!!!

    Looks like at least one month more of waiting on Mother Nature, and then a final search before the snow begins to fall again in the fall.

    A FANTASTIC time was had by all. JDA

    • Glad it was a safe trip JDA.
      Lots of snow still along high elevations in pocket streaks.

      I think you owe someone something.

  35. Something to ponder for those who think Forrest secreted the chest a mile or more from where he parked. In the recent article in the Santa Fe New Mexican, there are the following quotes:

    “He has doubts about his own physical ability to retrieve the chest. In addition to his hearing issues, Fenn has a bad back and tires more easily than when he stashed the money and artifacts in 2010, after a bout with cancer.”

    “The chest itself weighs 20 pounds and its contents another 22. When he deposited the cache, Fenn said, he made two separate trips, and he went by himself. Now, he said, “I don’t know I could physically get it. I’m not as agile as I once was. … When I walk 50 yards, I have to sit down.”

    • Wow, a mile or more from the parked car = 4 plus miles
      (2 round trips) on foot! Doesn’t seem likely imo.

      My “solution” is 800 ft to woods and maybe 200 ft INto
      the wood for a total of no more than 4000 ft on pretty
      flat ground, past the Mountain and Silver sagebrush
      and into the scrubby little peckerpoles of subalpine fir,
      Doug fir, Engleman spruce, Lodgepole and Limber pine.
      Lots of them are bear-scarred, dead and dying or down
      for the big dirt nap. It’s hard to maneuver in there now.

      My other distance “solution” is : 8.25 miles exactly
      (the distance from wwwh to “put-in” = the distance
      that’s Too Far To Walk). Just my opinions, of course.

      • 4 miles is not that far, even for an 80 year old in good health, and good shape. 2 years ago, I took my 77 year old mother on a 7 mile round trip hike into and back out of Canyon of the Ancients in the middle of a 90 degree summer. She did just fine ..


        • Seems like spinal stenosis.
          Need to sit down for a few mins & then you can go for another 50 or 100 Yds.

          Ya, still capable for a 3 mile hike IMO.

          • Hi Jake – The distance traveled would shock you to your core, IMO. Try using logic.

          • HMA

            What do you think the distance may be?
            100 yards?
            66,000 links?
            64 miles?


          • You have no idea what will shock me.
            You speak as if you know the exact distance.
            I am one of the most logical, realistic thinking folks on here.
            Just go get the chest & be done with it.
            Oh! It’s not there.

          • Hi Lug – IMO the distance is less than a half a mile.

            Hi Jake – I have a precise distance and spot that I will go to.

          • HMA –

            We have been through this before.
            Why would someone not go get the treasure if they KNEW where it was. Well there is no reason. You must not know where the treasure is.

            You don’t want to tell us about your thinking or the general area and you don’t want to go get it. Why come here and talk about it?

            Is there a reason not to go to where the treasure is? You and Zap spent 4 month saying I will go after winter. You went out once ans said you have seen the site. What is the hold up? Are you not able to retrieve it? Can I send a team for you? I have a team in Montana along the Clark Fork.

            Also If you haven’t read when I have mentioned it before I have no interest in the financial gain of the treasure. My interest lies in solving the riddle.


        • I’m not talking today, I’m talking 2009/2010 when he was 79/80 .. back then, he had no trouble hiding Bronze Beauty .. Today he probably couldn’t travel 4 miles with 22 lbs and a bad back ..

          Btw: I don’t necessarily believe it’s 4 miles round trip, I’m just arguing it’s possible that he could have walked 4 miles — and if the clues take you two miles you have to at least check it out. You have to take into consideration his health and ability 7 or 8 years, not today ..


          • Hi Brad: I just think the one-way distance Forrest had to travel was quite short. Two miles one-way is too far, by any reasonable interpretation of this Forrest quote from Feb. 5, 2016: “If you can’t make two trips from your car to your solve in several hours, then don’t go. Don’t search anywhere an 80-year-old man could not carry a heavy backpack.”

            Several is more than two, but not much more. If you’re willing to push that to 5 hours, and the terrain allows you to average 2 mph, 5 miles roundtrip is possible. But personally, I don’t think he walked even a mile distant from his car. Your mileage may vary. 😉

        • Also keep in mind that 1 mile of walking along a trail is VERY different than 1 mile of bushwhacking through a forest. Per Forrest’s hints, at least a portion of the journey is not along a road or trail.

    • Zap –

      Have you gone out yet?
      Has your search been delayed?
      We did a couple searches along the Clark Fork but were stymied by snow and fallen trees.

      I also had a huge problem in that my primary search in that area culminated well below 5000 feet in altitude. Oops


      • Although you were “stymied”…..

        You have to admit….the White Capped mountains LOOKED AWESOME!!


  36. Maybe this is what Fenn used when he made up the poem and the trail to follow to his treasure chest?

  37. Gone alone in
    One one nine
    With my treasure bold
    Boulder colorado st.rt.119
    Begin it www.
    Boulder falls
    Take it in the canyon down
    Boulder creek canyon
    Not far.but too far to walk put in below the home of brown
    There was a man named Nathan brown that could walk the 20 miles from boulder to Nederland in a hour and a half.Nederland was named browns pass and Brownsville before they changed it to Nederland. Just part of a colorado solve.

    • That is cool. It would be a great one to put on the Looking in CO board, if it isn’t there already. Been quiet over there…

      • The website attached seems to indicate Boulder Falls Trail is closed because of falling rocks and a flood in 2013. It’s interesting, though, because that would explain why no one has found the loot.

    • I like your thinking there…. it’s interesting to see the history of certain towns/areas researched.

      However, do not forget that researching history will not get you any closer to the treasure. I get a chuckle out of how much research, based on posts around this website, goes into solving the word Brown. Remember, Fenn specified that the solve only needs the poem and a good map. Geography knowledge will certainly help, but not history.

      • IMO, why places are called certain names is important and although not “clues” they can provide hints toward the solve. Ignoring the history or knowledge of the search area I think is a mistake. If anything, it can help confirm your theory of your solve.

      • Have always loved to research subjects that I have been challenged by; or been intrigued with. While getting out there with BOTG could could well be wonderful in may ways; that is an option no longer available to me. ( Still….I am thankful and always have an enjoyable time!).

        Insofar as the poem and a good map are concerned; there’s no better way to attempt in solving TTOTC. Geographical and word interpretation, of course, being ‘the’ most instrumental in appreciating a ‘successful’ Solve.

        The more tools we have in order to build an inspirational path to somewhere; the better opportunity we have of getting there. (Imagination and desire being two of the best).

        What are my chances of attaining the actual ‘confirmation’ Solve?

        Nil to none, yet, what I’ll hold in these two hands will truly belong to me.

        Life’s good,


        • Gosh, you can’t put botg? I thought perhaps you would be able to, my friend.

  38. I believe the comment, that it is best to leave your partner in the car was made to avoid any confusion over who found the chest and to affirm unequivocal ownership of it.

    • My memory fails me sometimes, but I think it was. If you have a searching partner best to have them wait in the car. g

  39. My first post here, but the time I have spent searching for it can be measured in years. I give this bit of information​ to the readers here to maybe help prevent undue excursions into deep and cold water.
    See Aristotle’s book titled “Physics” to understand what Forrest meant when he said “physics tells me the treasure is wet”. Keyword is “bronze”. There are different translations I believe concerning the greek word into “wet” or “fluid”. I believe Forrest chose “wet”. Remember Forrest ran a bronze foundary for many years.
    The point I wish to make is that the treasure is not wet in the traditional sense.
    Be smart, be careful, be wise….be safe.

  40. See the commentary by Saint Thomas Aquinas about Aristotle’s “Physics”. I have copied a link below. My apologies Dal if it is too long. In it he uses the word “wet” in reference to bronze in what I take as a quotation from Aristotle’s book.

      • OOOhh… this fits my theory of the chest being in a larger container sculpted to look like the surrounding area. One would need to be in very tight focus to see it.

  41. I need a hiking partner who wants to split room cost and Forrest Fenns Treasure at Clubhouse Inn in West Yellowstone Sept 5-11th. Room has 2 double beds and Continental breakfast served dailly.
    David Pegasus

    • David P – West Yellowstone is def a lively, enjoyable and pretty awesome town ( ..i liked it alot! 🙂 ) if your budget allows

      but plan for a US$200+ per night (twin share) motel room, at its most humble range

      so, if ya on a budget, maybe consider a half-that-price room, an hour SW (I15-ish) of the WYS locale, which should also easily cover ya car-rental, petroleum expenses in & back
      ..and a large pizza too, i reckon 🙂

      (btw, if you enter YSP at some unearthly early morning hour
      (like 4-5 a.m?) you might easily get free entry given the earliness
      – but i didn’t tho, as was too darn lazy, tbh 🙂 )

      ( ..jus sayin’.. )

  42. *If you have a searching partner, best to have them wait in the car. f

    Hmmm…where would I go all by myself? 😉

      • You got it.
        Peek-A-Boo 2 you.

        Gee, I just want to share my bathroom tile with all to see what you think.

          • Yes mam.
            Why else would he share his home bathing area as well as the others in nature.

          • I believe there may be something to this “Peek A Boo Art” scrapbook, but I haven’t pinpointed what. The possibility of his “bathing areas” is there, but so does imagination, art, etc..

    • Jdiggins –

      Can you tell us what you mean?
      The grave?
      The batter’s box?
      The voting booth?
      The confessional?


      • Can you tell us what you mean?

        The grave?
        The batter’s box?
        The voting booth?
        The confessional?

        D for sure.
        C possibly, not firm on that
        B great potential
        A yes

        E bathroom

        Quick pro quo

        • I do not believe Alone is a clue.
          I think of the line as a riff on classical poem architecture.

          I alone go in there
          I alone have gone
          Alone i go

          The greeks did that and the english followed

          I believe we begin where Fenn tells us to
          I am interested in all the different ways people think about the poem.


          • Thanks back. 🙂
            Lug, trust me, my way of thinking may not be the best, but at least I’m loaded with imagination!

            Who do you think ‘went alone in there’ before the greeks?

          • Lug- I agree that Alone is not a clue, but I do think that it informs a clue later on in the poem.

  43. Seems there is much commentary on the TC being wet. Just as there are many interpretations of the poem, there are equally as many for the term wet – Aristotle’s Physics included.

    I think this is where some searchers go wrong and is perhaps what has, through the searchers own actions, created some unsafe situations in the field search. This is the one part of the search that has to be well thought out before acting. The use of the term “physics” by FF is significant. Aristotle was no dummy!


    Covert One

    • Aristotle may not have been a dummy but he knew nothing about physics. Aristotle’s physics are barely an asterisk in the modern world.

      • Hi John Brown.

        I agree….Aristotle was well versed and his role in Science is extraordinary, but like Plato’s view of the world, it was rudimentary to what our knowledge is of today within the sciences that these gents were part of.

        IMO – ancient Greek was a philosophical time and society and at many times, used metaphors to describe what they saw and thought.

        The book may very well be a reasonable addition to be includes as a tool for the hunt, but I wouldn’t put too much wait on its overall use with the hunt.

        Good luck to you!

      • Without getting into a discussion of what Aristotle knew or didn’t know -or- how well he was versed in physics, that’s certainly not the main point.

        The main point is the correct interpretation of the word wet – I think this is where some searchers go wrong and is perhaps what has, through the searchers own actions, created some unsafe situations in the field search. I believe FF was using another play on words and there are many searchers who took that as a literal meaning. It does not mean wet literally (at least not the full meaning of the literal meaning). Again, Aristotle was no dummy. IMO

  44. You say “on my dollar”

    It’s not your dollar & you stepped over what is & isn’t early on.
    Are you going to send me a dollar for me to scribble the words you want?

    That’s OK, as long as you are willing to do the same for my dollar.
    Then again it’s not mine until someone finds the treasure and F confirms there is not 4 or more blazes.

    You & JDA would make a great team with the multiple blazes thing.
    Tim (Zoso) likes 11 clues as apposed to the 9 F has preached.

    I think you guys & girl should get together to solve what is unsolvable when you think this way.

    I’ll take the bait & bet & say once again, if there is more than 1 blaze, I will eat my hat & turd on it before the consumption.

    • Your fixation on terminology is holding you back my friend. I call it my dollar because I’m confident Ive already won.
      We have an agreement and the bet is on.

      If there is a hunter out there willing to hold the bet in trust Ill mail you my portion with a self addressed and stamped return envelope. Don’t forget to get Jakes portion so you can send both dollars to me when the truth comes out.

      • Terminology is key in this world & game it’s game on AkB.
        You can get my email from Dal or search around & learn more than you know.

        • Before it becomes a problem, know I respect you and your opinions even when I disagree. I say these things the way I do for the same reason a cowboy buys a dotson. (Just so he can get a long little doggy.)

          Its all good fun and Im proud to be a part of what I believe is The Chase’s first side bet.

          Still looking for an official mediator. JDA? Gypsy?

          • AkB: “Before it becomes a problem”

            That’s what this is all about.
            Trying to figure out the problem f has given us.

            Problem solving has never been my study in school.

        • AkB and Jake: happy to act as escrow holder given that the monetary stakes are low and it’s more the perceived value of what’s written on the Washingtons and the bragging rights. Dal has my permission to share my email address with you two. The game’s afoot!

          • oh wait! ..don’t tell me!!..

            is ya Email addy “Zap-ness-ster @nineteenth-lunar-hole.com”?

            ( ..just a wildly accurate guess, ’tis all 🙂 )

    • I believe it’s a very safe bet for you as I have watched most of your videos and read most of your posts with great interest.I find you to be on a similar thought pattern as mine.Is it possible to reach you off line for an email chat,before you return to Montana and Cinnamon Lodge? If Dal has a way to do it, he can give you my email addy maybe.Thanks bill b

      • Hey Bill B,
        Send Dal an email to get mine before I go.
        I’m not willing to post my email here again although it is scattered on many pages on his site at my own doing but if you do email me, please don’t tell me you know exactly where the treasure is & how you know all the clues.

        Dal, you have my permission.
        I like to keep my emails as I think, maybe, IMO, possibly & speculate.

        It would be better bill if you just speak your mind here & mix with your thoughts here.
        I think this is the stomping ground for thoughts on the TTOTC.

    • I sure hate to see you make these kinds of bets Jake – You sure are going to have a tummy ache one of these days. JDA

      • I’ve had a tummy ache for over 20 years JDA.
        I don’t have anything to lose with these bets as yours.

        It’s funny how we spin further away from what F said because w can’t find it.
        Yup, we keep spiraling out to the seeker circumference which is the same as saying it’s in the Rocky’s.

        We should be focusing into the inner spiral & listen & understand what he has been saying for years.

        Do your job & don’t worry about others.

        • JDA: Jake eats hats in a circus act, so it’s a sucker bet. His hats are specially constructed from chocolate and bacon. 😉

          • Glad someone finally got it.
            I have many hats & the one I will eat goes with salsa.

  45. Heres another quote for you to use Jake.

    A trail with one blaze is just a ribbon in a tree.

    • It is possible that different things make up the blaze, but that does not mean there are multiple blazes. Only one blaze!
      “Is the blaze one single object?” In a word-YES
      As many parts can make up this blaze, so can many parts make up this single object.
      There is only one blaze, if you were to bet that “THE” blaze was made up of multiple things, then I would say “Jake, don’t take that be.” But, you are saying there are multiple blazes, so I say, “Jake, clean them out.” “Take the bet”
      If you are taking the road of, a blaze points the way, then, with “YOUR” definition of a blaze there may be multiple blazes. We are not looking for your definition of the blaze, we are looking for Fenn’s. He has said too many times ,”THE” blaze, “a” blaze, meaning one. Jake has tried to tell you this, with no prevail. It seems you need “ALL” the quotes from f to finally convince you, do your own research. How really important is the blaze anyway when f has been asked and said,” Forrest, what is the minimum number of clues that we need to solve to find the treasure, assuming that we follow the clues in order?
      Just one, the last one. Unless the blaze is the last clue, which it isn’t from another of his quotes, Can’t start in the middle, etc…Your multiple blazes theory falls apart.
      How many clues take up this multiple blaze theory?
      It’s either one, the last one which it cannot be, or it’s some of the earlier clues, which means really nothing.
      ONE blaze!!!!!!!!

      • Is the blaze one single object? – In a word, yes. If you are referring to one of them in particular.

        Are the blazes one single object? – In a word, yes. If you are referring to them each individually.

        I’m afraid you have it berfectly packwards. But that’s ok, we are all mad here.

        But if you solve the last clue and keep following the trail? Then you’re just crazy.

        • F: “I mean there’s people driving down the street looking for a blaze, because that’s one of the clues.”

          One of the clues.

          “Playing a hunch is not worth much in the search and those who start out by looking for the blaze, are wasting their time.f”

          The blaze.

          “Perhaps your question is wrought with trickiness Ron. Are you really asking if the blaze could be in a cave where it is dark during the day, thus the need of a flashlight? If there is no subterfuge intended in your question then I would say yes.f”

          The blaze.

          If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,

          Is the Blaze one single object? ~ Scout Around
          “In a word – Yes
          I have received a few hundred emails from searchers who are sure they know what the blaze is. Ideas range from a mark on a tree, a rock, a sign, a fire, the side of a bluff, a waterfall, a spot on the head of a horse, a rainbow, and even a live owl that flew away when it was approached.
          As a side note: with summer on the close horizon, searchers should review the rules about being safe in the mountains. f ”

          The blaze.

          Can the blaze be pre-determined by the poem or can it only be determined at the search area?- becky
          “Becky, you are a rascal to ask that question and I have been sitting here for about fifteen minutes trying to decide what to say. Well, it has been thirty minutes now and I think I’ll pass on the question. Sorry.f ”

          Has anyone seen or mentioned the blaze to you? ~Stephanie
          “Thanks Stephanie for the questions. I have read them several times very carefully. They appear subtle on the surface but they aren’t. A yes or no to either question would give too much away, so I’ll pass. Sorry, and I’m aware that some searchers will pick me apart for this answer.f ”

          Did you really say the blaze is a white streak, as has been rumored? Thank you. ~Deb
          Thanks Deb,
          “No, I did not say that. There is a lot of bad information floating around the blogs and many posts that are not well thought out. One person said (I’m paraphrasing) “He said the treasure is hidden in the trees. Then he contradicted himself and said it was in the sun. How could it be both.” Makes me wonder if that person has ever been in the forest.f”

          “I was careful. A blaze can be on a tree, in a fire, on the face of a horse, a scar on a rock, and a host of other things.”

          If you think there is more than one blaze, I appreciate you for taking yourself out of the running of the Chase.
          Thanks for less competition.

          • I wonder if you read those quotes Jake or maybe you were just hungry for some copy pasta.

            Everything Ive said so far is the easy to believe stuff. You ready for the impossible yet?

            Be sure to hold onto something or you’ll fall down the rabbit hole.

          • AkB,
            I can’t find it easy to believe there is more than one blaze.
            If there is more than one blaze then there must be as many treasures as blazes.

            There is only one treasure & one blaze & that’s not my opinion.

          • I find it interesting that he seems to make special mention of the horses face mark. I think it unlikely that anyone thinks there’s an actual horse somewhere so that he mentions that possibility skews it towards more likely imo.

            Again, not an actual horse, but some kind of white streak/mark on something.

            More and more I find myself thinking about what FF doesn’t say and wondering why.

          • Fmc,
            He mentions tree, fire, horse & rock.

            Which one of these things is not like the other?

            Rock will still be standing way after the tree dies, the fire burns out & the horse will be dog food.

            Rock solid.

          • Hi Jake — I think Forrest’s selection of examples was more deliberate than one might think at first glance:

            Horse: Animal
            Tree: Vegetable
            Rock: Mineral
            Fire: None of the above

            So which one of these things is not like the others? I’d say none of them. Each is unique and quite distinct from the others.

          • Horse – 25-30 year life span.
            Tree – Life span longer but not quite 1K years.
            Fire – Short time span if you will – not counting the sun.

            Rock – Very long time span – over exceeds min requirements for a blaze.

  46. Jake,

    I do believe that. Curious as to how, or if the definition of ‘fling’ might be implemented.

    My imagination……again.


    • SL: “Jake, I do believe that.”

      Believe what SL?

      The way F said “fling” in the Moby video made me think he was winging it.

      (4:07) “I knew where I was going to hide the treasure chest” “I was going to fling myself on the top of TC & let my bones go back to the dirt.” “If you can follow the clues to the TC, you can have the TC.”

  47. Jake,

    Thinking how “below the blaze would blow your mind.”!!

    Just a figure of speech, my friend. No bigeee.

  48. I have found some fun facts while searching for the Fenn treasure . After using the poem in a unique way involving “hierglyphics”, I found the Saturday Evening post illustration from July 9th of 1949 by NormanRockwell. This illustration is fun because you will see a very Fenn looking guy bailing out of a second story window backwards. The license plate 3974 is a detail that I noticed but found no “use” until
    about a year later,. I took my kids on a spring break trip to Gettysburg. Walking from the parking lot to the Museium, I was struck by the very Sloane worthy barn construction of the building. It turns out that the front door per Wiki is 39.81. While in the museum , I noticed the former home of John Briown via his prison bars, A Harper weekly publication dated Aug 21 1863 on a poem called stolen stars, and a picture of John Burns that looked remarkably like Mr Fenn With a little imagination , you will find Yittrium trioxide in the last block of the poem. You will find the melting point has the same four digits (3974) as Y2o3 and the boiling point is also very close in terms of GPS location (7770). I’m sure these facts are just fun but they are certainly curious. The cryptologists in the search will like the 30 character signal wheel on display. Other artifacts are also interesting

  49. Does anyone think that once they arrive in this “special place” of Fenns they won’t find a “chest of gold” but they will find a treasure of some sort? Something that will explain the significance of all this journey. I can’t help but think the word treasure is used rather loosely by everyone in this quest and it may mean MUCH more than gold coins in a box. Your thoughts?

    • A minor point, but this is the second article on the pastor Wallace tragedy that referred to his parked truck as an “abandoned vehicle” — as if he never intended to return to it. I don’t think there’s any doubt he intended to return to the truck.

      Also, is it just on my PC or do all the X’s in that story look like they’re in a different font?

      • You aren’t seeing things, Zap. At work and my machine is showing the X’s to all be slightly larger in font than the remainder of the text. I’m curious, is it just a feature of an odd font?

  50. Is this sentence a hint? … “So now at last I KNOW, and if no one should ever think of me when I have passed THIS VALE, it will be of no consequence for I have finally FOUND my way and am at PEACE with all of it. “

    VALE is an interesting word & might be the keyword. Its used twice in MWFM, most prominently in the Homely Girl poem, but not in the treasure hunt poem. Its letters, and maybe its meaning, are in the word ‘marvel’

    Wikionary shows meanings in varied languages, all appropriate to the TTOTC story… valley, lies, farewell, debt. Today its used mostly in poetry (ex. Palace of Art/ Tennyson.)

    Wikipedia offers towns named VALE… only one is in the four states of the hunt. Click on VALE, Eagle County, CO and you get switched to the alternate spelling, VAIL, CO. And of course, it is an ending for many place names.

  51. I think Walt Longmire is gonna find the chest and settle his lawsuit this season…

  52. I’ve said some seemingly outlandish things on this site and if perchance you believed it, this will probably change your mind. But truth has never been dependent on belief.

    I said before that I read a poem and found a place where I did a thing. But what I didn’t say was that the place did a thing back.

    Now the simplest explanation is, I’m crazy. Or stupid. Or maybe just mistaken. I don’t think that’s the case.

    Here’s my explanation, Forrest left a piece of his soul in that chest, the piece that never grew up, and he trapped it when he closed the lid and it took on a mind of its own. The chest wants to be found and if you find the right spot, and you sit still long enough, and you’re quiet enough, it’ll leave you clues.

    Impossible? In a word, yes. Yet it happened anyways.

    No matter of logic can end The Chase. It demands imagination.

    Most days I believe in six impossible things before breakfast and I believe The Chase has only ever been meant for one person. It was a race to the start. And I got there first.

    • The is chest is only meant for one person. Sure, because some one will eventually find it.

    • I don’t think you’re crazy AkB Treasure Hunter. That sounds enchanting. I want to know what you know. Perhaps I’ll have to sit still.

    • Ah, I think you got it bassackwards, like your race to the start, imagination must be followed by logic and reason to end the chase.

    • Where did you get to first AkB ? And don’t feel special…there are many who have posted some very outlandish things…there will be more in the years to come.

    • Well AkB Treasure Hunter, you now sound like a noob, congrats. I do agree with you though, “the simplest explanation is, I’m crazy. Or stupid. Or maybe just mistaken.”
      If this was your goal, by sitting still long enough, and quiet enough, you’ve just explained a nut house. You have reached your goal, I can only respect someone that strives to reach their goals.
      You still have not come up with one little bit of truth about solving the poem. Just because you can solve 8-piece puzzles where you are at does not mean you have solved this one. The proof is in the pudding, and all you’ve presented is mush. Stop drooling all over yourself. Ohh, IMO.

    • Ahhh, an Agony in Eight Fits – Outstanding!!!

      “He had bought a large map representing the sea,
      Without the least vestige of land:
      And the crew were much pleased when they found it to be
      A map they could all understand.”

      I’m all aboard, AbK.

      Play on!


  53. My maternal Great Grandmother, Grand Mother and my Mother were all born with ‘the veil.’ It was something we just got used to.

    So much more to learn of this life.

    • Hey Dal just a note on the Media link it states that you did the interview with the Chicago radio in December 27th not June 27th.
      Great interview!

  54. Toby –

    He does not mention the Popo Agie.
    He mentions the Little Popo Agie.
    So not the river that goes to the sinks.
    You owe me one!


    • Lug,

      Don’t know what specific statement you’re referring to, but Fenn did mention the Middle Popo Agie, which does go to Sinks ..


  55. Trying to follow the clues precisely…..can you all help me out by “voting” with your responses?

    How many of you believe
    A) you go down the canyon however far that is and THEN you go too far to walk which in which case the home of Brown will let you know when to stop
    B) you go down the canyon and that distance from the WWWH to the HOB is TFTW

    It’s strange because if you look at how it’s worded in the sentence structure of the poem it seems like option B, but if you look at the order of the clues, it’s more in line with option A. So which option makes sense to you and is this why people have blown by the third clue??? I apologize if this has been brought up before. I tried, but couldn’t find where to post.

    • Thrill, I’ve given that some thought over the years. I usually go with option B. Begin at WWWH tells us where to start, take it in the canyon down tells us which direction to go, not far but too far to walk tells us how far it is to the next clue.

      So from WWWH to home of Brown is too far too walk. Just my opinion.

      • Thrillseeker,
        I’m not really liking either of those options…
        Maybe a third option is the waters travel the canyon, we might not… saying the waters travel is not far but too far for us… we need to find hoB. so hoB might be very near wwwh.

        But Goofy, you left out a piece of information about too far to walk…How do we get from wwwh to hoB if it’s to far to walk that distance?

        Fenn said; he traveled the clues the same way in the poem to hide the chest, and could today at 87. and at the same time we have searchers who started at the first clue[s] and walked past the seven remaining clues and the chest. [ for whatever reason ]. with fenn adding; they didn’t understand the significance of where the were.

        How does too far to walk relate, If they all walked past the clues [yet not realizing they did] the distance doesn’t seem to be to far at all… walking out all the clues. Keeping in mind we might need to take two trips as well.

        • Fenn said; he traveled the clues the same way in the poem to hide the chest, and could today at 87.

          Where did he say 87?

        • Seeker,

          You said:” Fenn said; he traveled the clues the same way in the poem to hide the chest, ”

          I never heard of him saying that. Thanks for that quote.

          I think those that had the correct first two clues and walked past the chest just didn’t go off trail due to not realizing they had correct location of the those clues.

        • Thanks peeps for responding. I appreciate your comments and feel the same way regarding the canyon and HOB. :}

        • Seeker, could you (or someone) give me the link to where he said he followed all the clues, I can’t for some reason find it. If I’m remembering correctly he was talking to the fellow asking if there were any shortcuts and he said there are none.

          I remember thinking at the time I read that “so where is too far too walk”. I think I decided he was telling the fellow there are no shortcuts. But I would like to see the question and answer before I go any further.

          I agree we need to discuss that.

          • Thanks IW,

            I read that before on MW. It’s the ‘ same way’ that had me wondering about the quote. FF also said recently from The Lure Q&A (paraphrasing) than he doesn’t know of anyone giving him all 9 clues ,in the right order.

            * To answer some questions and save others from being asked, I did follow the clues in the poem when I hid the treasure chest, although I hid it before the poem was complete. (Completed?) f (posted 6/5/2107)

            Interesting !

          • Edit correction : THAT ( not than) he doesn’t know of anyone giving him all 9 clues, in the right order.

          • And since you think we should discuss it… here is what I get from his statement. Please understand that this is my opinion and not a Forrest Fact…

            The actual statement was….
            –I did follow the clues in the poem when I hid the treasure chest, although I hid it before the poem was complete. (Completed?) f–

            Now the parenthesis has confused a lot of people. They have wondered why he said that in such a way. My theory is that Forrest followed atleast 2 of the clues in the poem but perhaps ONLY 2 clues. WHY?

            Because of the parenthesis. If you follow the logical flow of his sentence, he is saying he followed the clues in the poem, that he had completed at that time. To say the poem is not completed is to say that all the clues are not present, therefore… he did NOT follow all of the clues in the poem. But, he did follow some of them.

            And by straight forward logic, he followed 2-8 of the clues when he hid the chest. Nothing outside of those parameters can be factual unless Forrest corrects the original statement (which he wont 😉 )

          • I have had the same thoughts Iron Will. I always thought there is 2 ways to come from to the hide and the poem is ,of course, they way of the poem. The other way I would only have 7 of 9 clues. To me this is, in part but not limited to, the meaning of the Double Omegas- there are two ways to come from.

            Just my opinion.

          • Thanks Iron, that’s probably the quote Seeker is talking about.

            I agree with Seeker, we seem to find ourselves in a quandary. You might be right, but a straight forward reading of his statement said he followed the clues in the poem. So it begs the question what does too far to walk mean.

            In saying he followed clues 2-8, I’m taking it you are thinking HOB is clue #2, and he hadn’t finished the poem with WWWH and canyon down yet?

            Maybe you are correct but that seems odd to me. He wrote down the later clues before the first one.

          • Nah Goofy, I’m just saying according to the logical reading of his answer, he followed the clues in the parts of the poem that were completed when he hid it (as the poem was not completed at that time). Since he said CLUES, that means he followed at least 2. Since they were not completed, means he followed possibly 8 but no more. That’s all I meant.

          • OK Iron, I see what you mean. I think you are correct, whether someone thinks WWWH and canyon down are two clues or just one he hadn’t written the clue/clues before too far to walk. Which would mean he followed clues 2-9 or 3-9 when he hid the chest. And therefore those clues are relatively close together.

            This would explain his statement about not writing the poem before he hid the chest. I guess he had written part of the poem before he hid the chest.

            Is it just me or does this strike anyone else as odd?

          • Yes, it is odd. I had just wrote the same as you have pointed out. This is my opinion as to why folks walked right by the chest beings as they were where they would be having solved the first 2 clues. I have never wanted to say this lol. But they were probably there coming from the other way ; they way that is less of the first 2 clues. That is, to me, why he said they probably didn’t know they solved the first 2 clues. The weren’t actually there searching lol. By this thesis, that is why no searcher knows , or will ever know, if it was them because it was not where they were searching. The first clue is , to me, is what I call the ‘hoodwink’ clue. It is important, need it, its real ,but it is what makes the simple poem complex. Nice work!

          • i’m sorry if i’m out of line here- but i read:

            *To answer some questions and save others from being asked, I did follow the clues in the poem when I hid the treasure chest, although I hid it before the poem was complete. (Completed?) f (posted 6/5/2107)

            having to do maybe with the missing d’s…
            i don’t know, another possibility. one of many.

          • IW,
            While I’m trying to follow your logic… your thoughts don’t add up. Allow me to explain my reasoning.

            You stated; “Because of the parenthesis. If you follow the logical flow of his sentence, he is saying he followed the clues in the poem, that he had completed at that time. To say the poem is not completed is to say that all the clues are not present, therefore… he did NOT follow all of the clues in the poem. But, he did follow some of them.”

            Does it matter at all when the poem was finalized completely or completed or complete in written form…?

            fenn would still needed to follow all the clue references to get to the hidey spot regardless of when the poem was completed or complete, to his satisfaction, to present the poem to the public.

            A relative time line of events as we have been told;
            approx. 1988 the thought ignited, and told, this is the time he started on the poem.
            Took approx.15 years of on and off work to get the poem exactly as he wished.
            during the same time-line, bought a chest, collected items and gold and precious gems, added and removed items over a 20 plus years time line.
            Tells he hid the chest when he was 79-80, tell it was summer when he hid the chest.
            This places the time line of the hide to be possibly [ with logical judgement ] summer of 2009 or 10.
            Then book with the poem later released in 2010.

            So to think that fenn only had “two clues completed” [ in the written poem or otherwise] at the time of the hide, and he only followed “some of the clues” doesn’t fit the time-line we have been told of. That would be saying, fenn didn’t finish the poem until the summer of 2009 at the earliest… and only had two clues written down in that year?

            The idea here, I think, is the same as when fenn made the comment about a “solve” vs. “a general solve”

            A solve is a complete or completed task of everything involved, line of thinking, including walking away from the chest for that last time, or in our case, retrieving the chest… verses… a general solve as having the information correct but not finalizing the task to complete or completed the task all the way through.

            Fenn’s comment; , I did follow the clues in the poem when I hid the treasure chest, although I hid it before the poem was complete. (Completed?) f
            Might be saying, to “complete” the poem.. he still needed the hide the chest, and Present it all to the Public, in the form of the challenge. The finalizing / completed the task.

            Hence, “completed his full task”… not unlike, a [completed] solve vs. a [complete] “general” solve.

            The end game here was for him to “finalize / compete” everything… and the end game here is for us to complete everything… a solve or completed solve, in our case. To retrieve or have proof of the finding of the chest.

            Which scenario is more plausible?

          • Either is equally plausible depending who wants to believe what.

            But please understand I DID NOT say that I think Forrest only followed 2 clues when he hid the chest. I followed basic logic to determine “possibilities”. CLUES refers to more than 1. Since he hid the chest before the poem was complete or completed, then not all of the clues were done, meaning less than 9. So the logical possibility is that Forrest followed somewhere from two to eight of the clues when he hid the chest. And as I said, that’s not my belief, it’s just a logical assessment of his statement. That’s why I called it a theory, and stated that only Forrest can prove otherwise with additional information. That’s simply all that was said.

        • Seeker, is this the comment you are talking about?

          I have a question for Mr. Fenn: When you hid your treasures, did you take the same path that is described in the poem, or were you able to skip some of the steps because of your familiarity with the area? Thank you Curtis

          The clues should be followed in order Curtis. There is no other way to my knowlege. f


          If this is the one you’re talking about he didn’t say he took the path of the clues.

          • What would be the understanding of, in part, ‘There is no other way to my knowledge.’?

          • PD, I think It just means that because we don’t know exactly where the chest is, we would need to follow all the clues in order.

          • Thank you, Alsetenash. I understood it to mean there was no other way to get to his special spot that he was aware of, so we needed to follow the clues.

          • Goofy, both you and IW have the correct comments to what I was talking about… there is another as well.
            Fenn could have written the poem before he hid the chest, but he didn’t.

            That seems to imply the knowledge of the poem answers were known to him at the time of hiding the chest, [ but he needed to write a poem to make it all work ] as well as, he doesn’t know of any other way to get to the chest unless the poem references are followed, and he himself followed the same references of the clues.
            As well as, the poem is a map… which is the whole point to the other comments needed to be understood so there doesn’t seem to be any conflict to his statements.

            We can debate all day of the completion date of the poem and the date when fenn actually hid the chest… but that information will never be known [at least not until the chest is actually found, even then maybe not] [ although with other comments… we seem to be able to narrow the time line of the hiding of the chest down [ I have ‘summer’ time.. lol ].

            If we take all the comment above and roll them into a reasonable thought, It says to me… fenn took the same route we’re told to take, that’s the only way / path [ possibly, a one way in and out scenario, or the understanding of the clues are more important than just deciphering what they refer to] is the same he took~ which was my point… If it’s the only way to the location of the chest, we [ I mean I ] need to understand why.

            How we think about them is a whole other story. We can’t, or maybe I should stop saying WE and say… I can’t pick and choose just one comment and run it into the ground because it make my solve work… With seven years of ATF’s to act as a check and balance… some sense is needed to be made of all those comments to work, as a whole, in regards to solving the poem.

            Otherwise, why do we bother the man every single day with yet more question if we dismiss the one’s we don’t like, or bend them until the are unrealistic.

          • —I could have written the poem before I hid the treasure chest, but I didn’t. f—

            I believe what this really tells the searcher, is that Forrest hid the chest without marking a boulder or tree. He didn’t need to visually decide on a brown home or a water tower (hypothetical water high). This means he had pre-knowledge of the clues without going out there BOTG. And the argument augmenting this line of thinking and narrowing down HOW he got the knowledge, I believe, is by Forrest himself when he also said…

            –“The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. f ” —
            This could easily indicate that he had no past knowledge of the clues, and did not set them up when hiding the chest (due to the above two quotes). So wouldn’t the obvious answer be that most if not all the clues are available to the searcher at home on the internet with enough info searching through maps and such? Just my guess on it.

          • So I found this interesting. “The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. f”. Here it suggests the clues are “places” not directions. I think he believes the 9 clues are places not direction. To find the 9 clues, look for places he gives in the poem, not directions. That is, if you care to know the 9 clues, which ultimately may not be that important. If you include directions, you come up with many more clues than 9, imo.

          • Hi Patrick.

            I agree….all the clues are places…..BUT….remember….there are directions included as well…..examples that could be such directs are, “down”, “below”, etc.

            But as for all the locations refer to as places, I have to agree, because all of the places for my solution are places and the directions will lead you to the next clue.

            Welcome to Difficulty-land!

          • This is a recent realization for me as I was including both places and directions as clues, but I think you are right, IMO. Ultimately it doesn’t matter as long as you follow the poem. Unfortunately, living in FL, I have to wait another year before I can search for it with the fear it will be found before I get another chance to look for it. I am sure envious of those that live in the area!

          • I would also like to comment, imo, about finding the places (or clues) on a map or from home. Having done about a year and half of research and then two botg trips, I believe botg are required to find all the places as well as follow the directions in the poem. Also, it is critical to obtain local knowledge of the area. Most searchers do not know the area where Indulgence is hidden, but someone is familiar with the area. You can’t do that unless you are botg.

          • IW ~ we are posting over each other… I just read this explanation. However, I think your assumption, as you said; “–“The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. f ” —
            This could easily indicate that he had no past knowledge of the clues,…”

            Right, no pass knowledge of the “clues” because they were not thought of prior to the challenge’s idea.
            But fenn also stated, he could have written the poem before hiding the chest, but he didn’t.

            Does that seem to imply, that in a prior time line [ before the thought of the challenge ] That fenn could have written the poem and clues if he only had the thought to do so, prior?
            And the “clue’s references” would be the same in either time…?

            Personal note IW, regardless of our past… this discussion is why I come to a forum like this. To chat about the differences, the ideas, other’s thought process with rebuttals and reasoning. It doesn’t matter who is right or wrong… it about thought.

            So I appreciate these type of inputs… with personalities and personal likes or dislike aside.

          • So to sum it up Seeker, we originally were talking about where too far to walk is. Fenn looks to be saying he hadn’t finished the poem yet, even though he worked on it for many years, when he hid the chest.

            So he didn’t take the route of the clues when he hid the chest. He parked his car at home of Brown, or end of canyon, depending on what a person calls the first two clues and walked from there to hide the chest. This says to me all of the clues after too far to walk are relatively close together.

            Is this how you see it?

          • (Re the completing of the poem)

            Question posted 6/29/2014:

            Forrest, Did you intend for there to be 9 clues, or did it work out to be just right with 9? ~ halo

            Nice thinking halo, I didn’t count the clues until the poem had been finalized. Although I changed it a few times over the months I think the number stayed about the same. f

          • Jak,
            That Q&A in my mind is very important…
            Not only does it imply how the word[s] complete or completed might be use and meant, But also, how different or difficult to understand the ATF comments.

            “… Although I changed it a few times over the months I think the number stayed about the same. f ”

            Over the months? lol… I thought we were told it took 15 years, right?
            Also; “I think the number stayed about the same” Yet, in the book fenn seemed to want to tell us that there are “9 clues” … so are we over thinking 9 or is that something we need to know? He could have said, there are clues in the poem. [ make my day easier, lol ]

            The we have the “several” word homework to look up.
            Or fenn stating he looked up meanings of words and definitions of words, changed them, went back and rebooted… “it turned out exactly like I wanted”

            We also have example of fenn doing just that with a Q&A about “admire” the place where the chest lays in wait…. and fenn stating the word admire means respect, and high regards, so it we twist it a little it works.
            Not unlike what is stated in the book TTOTC preface; “I tend to use some words that aren’t in the dictionary, and others that are, I bend a little”

            Add other comments such as, each word [in the poem] was deliberate, as well as, it’s risky to discount [ words in the poem ]. And there seem to be a pattern merging.
            IMO, it starting to look like 9 clues are only certain words / or phrases collectively lead one to the chest itself… while all the rest of the poem answers the clues references. The question is… where in the poem are they separated?
            Does stanza one tell of WWWH?
            Does stanza 5 indicated WWWH?
            Does stanza 3 have anything to do with WWWH?
            Does the question presented with answers in the poem tell us anything about the first clue or any clue at all?
            Fenn stated;
            Chicago radio WGN interview, March 2013: http://lummifilm.com/blog/WGN2013.mp3
            Minute 10:45, Q: Does the book give me any more information than I would get from the poem?
            A: “There are some subtle hints in the text of the book that will help you with the clues.  The poem will take you to the chest but the book by itself won’t.” f

            “In the text”… is it a waste of time looking any place else for clue references interpretations? Research, illustrations in the book, anomalies in the book [example page numbers? ~ are they part of the “text” of the book ].

            So while we think about the ATF comments… how can we attempt to relate what we know or think we know of now, to a time when they were not know of at all?

            Halo’s question was a smart one, imo. Many look at that as only dealing with 9 clues in the poem… but for me, it leads me to think how fenn relates to the answer and wording of it… Months vs. Years… complete (completed) or even, “am not ready to say…” the chest is not in water or “I didn’t say buried… but I didn’t say it’s not”

            We can conclude what we like… but I have little doubt that fenn is giving food for thought. But we need to see the Big Picture thru his eyes and not ours.


          • (Second try.) Jake, it may have taken him 15 years to write the poem, but he survived and had to change it, which may have only taken a few months to do so. This is how I’m looking at it.

          • My thoughts of opinion.

            A Poet isn’t a Poet just because they writes poetry. They could write a poem observing, doing, seeing anything anywhere at anytime. A poetic mind can and does see all things as poetry. It is what he saw in the area with his poetic mind that lead him to the spot in the first place. Observing the landscape , taking things in, smelling, seeing, being at where he was. In his mind, narrating his experience. In this flow of thought and observation, he see’s a certain spot that this ‘ poetry in motion in his mind’ brings his eyes to. What is there , ever where my mind leads? He goes there and it is a beautiful spot. A place that evokes a sense of sanctity within. Something special is this place. A place of inspiration for living, the beauty of living life.

            Then the Poet writes a poem, as a map, to the place of peace and inspiration. It was the poetry of the place that brought himself there in the first place. No need to complete the writing of the poem , for the poetry is already known.

            Does it really matter to him how much of the poem and clues he has written or not written before he hides the chest at this spot? A poem is a Poet with a pen.

          • I agree Seeker, we need to run a solution through all of his comments (in context) to see if it measures up.

            You wrote: Summary [ for today anyways ] he hike from his car through ‘all’ the clues OR had to use the clues in some manner [starting with wwwh] to the hidey spot and back to the car, rinse and repeat the second trip, and laughed going back to his car.

            I don’t agree he hiked through all the clues because that would mean he hiked “too far to walk” twice. If you mean he drove some of the clues when you say he used the clues in some manner I would agree with that.

            Like Iron said, he didn’t say how many clues he hadn’t finished when he hid the chest; so how many clues did he walk when he hid the chest seems to be the question.

            Since people have solved the first two clues and walked past the others it would seem to suggest he parked his car after the second clue.

          • LOL, Goofy, By now you should know I don’t have an easy answer for anything involving the challenge.
            Ok, NFBTFTW… In relationship to fenn’s comment… he followed the clues… I have to think he meant ‘all’ the clues, start to finish [ wherever those are ].

            Just like my thought or example was; he could have written the poem before he hid the chest, but he didn’t… says to me that he could have written the poem with the clues earlier than 1988, IF, he had the forethought to do so. Combining just those two comments
            [ which for me is not is to skip over other comment running through my thoughts ]
            but just using those two… I get the idea that the clues indicate the exact physical references and path fenn took to hide the chest… No skipping a clue or – imo -even driving out a clue or more.

            Summary [ for today anyways ] he hike from his car through ‘all’ the clues OR had to use the clues in some manner [starting with wwwh] to the hidey spot and back to the car, rinse and repeat the second trip, and laughed going back to his car.

            Now with the simple answer stated and only my thoughts on that… we have this Q&A that is killing me into the understanding of the clues themselves [ or at least how to go about it all ].

            Q- Who else knows where the treasure is buried?
            A- I never said it was buried. I’ve avoided that word. I hid it. I don’t mean to imply that it isn’t buried. I just didn’t want to give that as a clue. ***It took me two trips in my car to hide the treasure. And I can tell you an 80-year-old man is not going to make a trip into a canyon, then come up and go down again.*** As for who else knows, I’m the only one. My wife doesn’t know. [People.com… people celebrities]

            That does not sound like fenn went down a canyon taking the same route we think we are told to take in following the clues?

            Some may argue the “IN” in the answer as, fenn drove the clues… But other comment relating to hiding the chest refer to walking only from the car to the spot. { yep this might be a grey area for thought } But I think or would like to think, fenn didn’t intend us to drive out or drive past clues.
            That logic come from the first two clue comments, that searcher walked past the remaining clues and the chest. Again we have searcher walking, fenn walking, and fenn telling us he followed the clues…

            Where’s the influence to get out of the house, or off our butts and into the wilds if we sit in a car and drive out any clue?
            Although I have to admit, Canyon down can just simply mean a direction only… but why that direction? I think is more important than just hopping back in the car to drive around or into a canyon.

            One theory might be… a vantage point to see clues coming towards the viewer, and maybe the place to go is actually behind you. [ from that viewing area ]. If you don’t see those clue, your not at the correct place, line of thinking… the correct first clue. So how will we know we have the correct first clue…? by solving the poem and actually finding the chest, right?

            What did all the searcher who were at the first clue[s] do? They all walked past the everything else. So could it be we just need to turn around and not go down the canyon… only the waters do?

            Just another theory in the attempt to utilize the AFT comments. Yet the theory might help explain why Little Indy or anyone else “can not get closer” to the chest… WhatIF~ to get from the car to wwwh [the first clue] takes us right past the chest and the later clues in the poem?

            Any theory is reasonable if we can reason out the information fenn as stated over the years as a check and balance. I think, if that can’t be done… something is wrong with the solve. But that is tricky in itself… we still have to attempt to understand fenns ATF comments correctly as well.

            Welcome to my World.. the forecast is for rainbow skies and partly cloudy today.

  56. I am in the camp with Goofy all the way, once the is solved we will all slap our foreheadsite and say “It all makes sense now” “why didn’t I think of that”.

    Forrest has probably made many hints and comments over these past 6 years about the location of Indulgence, this may prove that the best place to hide something is in plain sight.

    As with any adventure or in the heat of battle the fog of war shrouds TC whereabouts.

    I JUST REMEMBER https://youtu.be/cjImFYf2Vzc

      • pdenver, and Donna, RE: “What an amazing puzzle F created!”

        Kudos to both of you deep thinkers intuition tells me it goes even deeper, what an amazing “sacrafice” ff has given to the world, we need a lot more unselfish people like Fenn, to make America Great Again, and anyone who is so short sighted as our NM State Police Chief who calls this hunt “stupid”, to us that is tantamount to someone saying how stupid golf is, just cause they will never be up for nor accept the challenge of the game/hunt, think about the beautiful courses, ranges, so until you try it no one will truly understanding these challenges, the game, the hunt. Does the Chief understand we are not the problem? Crime is the problem, addiction is the problem, and a spiritual awakening is the answer, so if you church is in the mountains, you need inspiration, and these activities are part of it, Forrest knows those “problems” are symptoms of a lack of imagination: Fenn’s hints are like this:

        The best teachers are those who show you where to look, but don’t tell you what to see. “Alexandra K Trenfor”

        As ff said, life deals you four cards and a joker, and you play whether you like it or not!

        I guess you see now that I love the “Royal Game of the Scotts”, my ancestors ie: family name McGregor as in son of “Gregory”, where else except billiards or golf can a 70 year old beat a 30 year old? By the way, I occasionally shoot my age, scored a 70 twice this year at Los Altos Golf in Albuquerque, NM.

        My only other sports are skiing and fishing…Been to Alaska 9 Times and in 1995 took a 300 lb Halibut, and a 69 lb King, the King I caught with a 9 wt fly rod.

        Well I am just bragging, why not, I am Tom Terrific, AKA “Enthusiastic” about savin the Rockies!


        • Those are nice catches, Tom Terrific. I’ve always wanted to go Marlin fishing, to feel the fight on the end. I’d probably only last a few seconds, but I sure would love to know what it feels like. Congratulations.

    • I agree, Tom. F has said MANY things that I’d defined a different way, gives us some good hints and helps solve the clues!
      Think about what he describes as a “typical” searcher…
      “A redneck from TX, unemployed, owns a red truck, has 12 kids…”
      AND F has said it THIS way…
      “An unemployed redneck from TX, driving a red pickup truck…”
      Both say the same thing, same words, just different order, but you can construct it into a PLACE, using the definitions offered on line.

      Is F giving “hidden in plain sight” clues? Yes, I feel he is. Deciphering the words, or looking at their other meanings besides what we know, is very eye-opening!
      F gave this example of looking up words by using “SEVERAL” in his Moby Dickens iinterview. By following this example of investigating word definitions, I found my…oops! Almost said too much!
      Y’all get the message.
      What an amazing puzzle F created!

      • Donna, Oops my answer is above.

        TTTTTTTTTT as the tracks lead to the end of my Rainbow, and a double omega “The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.” Native American proverb

        “Life is really simple, but men insist on making it complicated.” —Confucius

    • I was there the early part of May. Both trails, on opposite sides, were closed due to snow. I was there by chance and took photos. I’ll see if I can find them and ask Dal if he would post in the Photo Album section.

  57. small ‘d’ and Dal’s Blog is top of the search engine, pretty cool….! Still haven’t had any Dal’s Pizza, some day…!

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