Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Thirty Two


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572 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Thirty Two

  1. OK, back to the drawing board. I’ve gone down too many rabbit holes, and a few coyote holes too. Need to get back to the basics.

    • Joe, your sentence doesn’t translate well. Translated directly it says: Always, to save the life that belongs to you; and the search that belongs to you humble. Spanish speaking people who dont know English would have a very difficult time understanding this.

      Guardar is used more like save in English. Like, “save me a slice of pizza.” It’s closer to “keep” as in keeping receipts or setting something aside.

      To say what you mean would be more like:

      Siempre mantenga tu vida y tu búsqueda simple.

      Mantener is the verb “to keep” that you want here. Think “maintain”. In this context, “simple” is also the better form of simple to use but if you did use sencillo it would have to be the feminine form, sencilla, because busqueda is feminine.

      It’s better to use Google translate fornthe entire sentence vs taking words from an English to Spanish dictionary and putting them together like you would in English. That will make your Spanish actually make sense. 🙂 I hope this is as helpful as I meant it to be.

      This doesn’t include different dialects. In the Dominican Republic, where I learned Spanish, they would have said, “mantengas simple la vida y tu busca.” But in some areas it woukd have been pronounced, “mantenga simple la vidas y la buca.” Paco esta acostada atras would be “pacoetaacotao” spoken as fast as an auctioneer.

  2. Just wanted to point out that a definition of sedan is: an enclosed automobile for four or more people, having two or four doors.

    I’m always on the lookout for fishing spots with low pressure and often find tire tracks via Google earth that get me convenient access. A lot of times, when I get to the location, the tire tracks are invisible unless you know right where to look. Most times, unfortunately, the tracks are on posted land. Man I hate driving 3 hours only to find out I can go any further…

    Anyway, I drive a 4 wheel drive sedan.

    • Ryan, I think you are one of the relatively few that know
      that a Jeep could qualify as a sedan. I think that FF drove
      a Jeep (or similar vehicle) to a place very near where the
      TC is, and didn’t have to carry it very far on foot. All IMO.

      • Does anyone know if fenn actually own a Jeep at the time he secreted the chest and perhaps the color if it makes a difference. Maybe to someone out there.

  3. Hello all

    I am joining the search. I will be leaving for my first search on july 30-aug 3 .myself and my youngest son will venture out to seek Mr. Fenns chest. We start from santa fe heading nw/n. With poem in hand.
    We are from Texas and will travel 10 hrs before the starting date. We have devised our plan from Mr. Fenns books and poem utilizing a collection of approaches ( Mr. Fenn’s past experiences, likes,curiousities, ect..) of the likes
    (Direction,climate,fishing,time,age,and of course Texas) Best wihes to all.

      • Donna hello no i have a white ford 4×4 sorry im going to start close by mr fenn said he made 2 trips in an afternoon yet has not spoke of season in which he had taken it in. I have found a spot with warm to cool waters,mid elevation, 2 different types of white stone,brown trout,pinion and pine trees and no human paths . The box is “wet” so i have researched climates and their changes. I have included ” in the canyon down” as well as other surprises in his books. Once i check ( 10 mile stretch) on it i will post to let all know of my trip and the particulars of how i choose the spot.

        • FF said it was summer when he hid the TC.

          I remember reading this. But I’m (kinda) required, anyway, to add “in my opinion”, or something similar, so I will.

          The above is IMO.

          • Tighterfocus in mysteriouswritings Mr.F said that the chest would soon awaken to tromping feet of hikers. IMO: water rises in spring thaw bringing high waters ,thus being that the hikers would be travelling closer along the area the TC was placed in what would you think plz.

        • 7 days and closing. I feel excited as i review my area and go back over the poem. I found to my amazement that there are streams,creeks,roads,peaks,and area names of all different types of wildlife given to these lands. This fits IMO due to interviews of Mr.Fenn saying that you could smell the pine ,and see the wildlife.not to mention in mar 2017 Mr.Fenn gave description of the spring awakening the chest to vibration of hikers ,the weasels,and bears peaking out. Asymbly of his literary puzzle and clues in disguise. IMO all of this fits to where i am heading . I have read alot of discussion by those that have posted openly so i have deciced to give the state ill be in…..NM. as i have said i will detail how i come to this location after next weekend. Enjoy your week may one of us all become prosperous in our search. Chris.

          • Good luck in your search Chris. If all goes well, I too, will be out searching, but in Wyoming. TRY to STAY SAFE JDA

          • If one is WY and one is NM, you won’t both find Fenn’s treasure but I hope you both find enrichment. I know you will be safe and I look forward to reading of your adventure.

          • Just found out the area is looking for rain all that week with highs of 80°and lowes in mid 50s this should be exciting,WET and cold. They area is fond of poison ivy aswell LOL im crazally reactive!

    • Has any one connected or realized that “Brown” is connected to being called a blaze ? IMO THAT COULD BECOME (CHANGE) THE meaning of home of brown to the home of the blaze. Chris

      • FF said not to mess with the poem – so that would be like changing the poem IMO.

        • Covert
          Not nessasarily for Mr.Fenn said he liked to twist words and make up words in TOTC. But i do hold the poem in high regard at face value. Chris

        • Covert please let me clarify my meaning. In doing a crossword some times i have to use a word that has the same meaning to fit in the aloted space. In poems the constructor needs the word to jive,fit,or rhyme with the full body of thier writing. Chris

      • Ok i retract the Brown as a blaze. Now instead IMO, it refers to the long tailed weasel. The sloat is brown coming from the burrow then turns white except the tip of its tail. The how of how i come to this is from mysterious writings where Jenny posed several ? To Mr.Fenn and is in his reply. Where he capitalized the first letter of each word in mid sentence,giving notice to the significance of the weasel. IMO this is a tip (clue get it ? Black tipped tail ). Which as well IMO gives reference to the white under belly fur,aswell as becoming solid white later leading to Yes -(a Blaze ) . As i am going soon to solve my therory ,i was hoping someone might assist me in this. Chris.
        P.s. its 5:30am getting redy for work.

        • Well the night isshort and the trip will be long but tomorrow i leave to travel to NM on my first search ( my son is excited. Ok any got anyone got any advice on any item i should take?

          • Well, somebody has to say it. What do you bring? A flashlight and a sandwich. Good luck!

          • Good luck in your searching, Br careful out there. If you are going where there is no cell phone service, I recommend a device similar to a an Inreach explorer. Listen to Mr. Fenn’s guidance on safety.


            Windy City

  4. Three subs in a row? Que mal, ese! Over at myseriouswritings.com, f said that you don’t have to break anything to find the chest. He said more than that, but that is the only part I want to discuss at the moment. If you want to know the rest of his statement you should visit the MW website. I wonder if f considered “breaking a sweat” as something that you don’t need to break to find the treasure. Hmmm. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Blex, what’s your take? P.S. not “sub”ing.

    • Slurbs, please don’t underestimate Fenn. If you hike ten
      miles extremely slowly, without wearing much clothing, you
      may not break a sweat. You could conceivably have some
      porters carry you on a stretcher, and then you wouldn’t have
      to exert yourself much at all in order to get very close to
      the small, final search area that contains the TC.

      FF has mentioned “precisely” when discussing solving
      the poem, so please be aware that precise THINKING
      is the important thing to use. IMO.

    • Hi Slurbs,
      I found the quote you mentioned and thought I’d add the link in case anyone was interested: http://mysteriouswritings.com/periodic-words-from-forrest-fenn-on-the-thrill-of-the-chase-772017/

      My take is that Forrest is being literal in this quote and just trying to prevent any potential property damage done in the name of the Chase. I believe that breaking a sweat is to be expected… especially if one finds the chest and has to lug it back with them! 🙂

      Maybe I’m over-assuming here, but it has always been my belief that the Chest has been hidden using “Easter egg hunt” rules. It may be in the hollow below a tree trunk, boulder, or fallen log, but not intentionally buried. It may have accumulated some loose coverage over the years, but is not concealed beneath a significant load of earth. I do not think a metal detector is a required piece of equipment to take along on the Chase (It seems kind of lame if it were). I also don’t think that a shovel is a required piece of equipment for the Chase, however when I do go on a search I bring along a portable folding shovel with me just in case. This is all just my gut-feel opinion, and I have no Forrest quotes to back any of it up, so take it as you may.

      • Agree, Blex! You are in CO? I’m headed out there next month. Such lovely country.

        As for earlier Jeep as Sedan comment, has anyone considered Sedan, MT?

        • Thanks, Lady V. Yep, I’m here in Colorado Springs. It’s been an exceptionally wet and stormy summer out here so far, so don’t forget to pack some rain gear and keep an eye on the weather when you’re out and about. Have a fun trip!

          • Ooh. Geez. We have a friend hiking the Colorado Trail right now, just started about a week ago. He’s not a Fenn seeker, more like just a seeker!

            Thank you for the tip. Lotsa’ rain gear for me this time!

      • Think you are right on Blex. Keep the shovel, think if he thought 100 years down the line, he may have buried a bell on the path to the chest. Figure ringing it to let him know, so he could watch from his viewpoint. Seek-no-further tree, home of Brown hmmm maybe.

        • Charlie, from what I understand from Forrest’s writings in TTOTC: the treasure chest was hidden with the intention of it being found in the not-too-distant future (time will tell if that holds true), whereas the bells have been (are continuing to be?) hidden with the intention of not being found for a long time in the future (again, time will tell if that holds true). I think we’ll have a much better shot at finding the chest than a bell. If anyone happens across a bell, I can only see it happening out of pure, dumb luck! But it is a nice thought to think that one could discover one along the path to the chest.

          It seems to me that the buried bells were Forrest’s follow-up hobby after the chest was already hidden. He’s the only person in this world who needs something to do other than searching for the chest to pass the time! 🙂

          • Hey Blex…I just had a thought…

            I wonder if there is a map inside Indulgence that will lead the finder to maybe one bell?

            Now that would be so cool – to do another hunt from ending the original.


          • That’s a nice idea, Tim. I wouldn’t mind another search for one of the bells. Come to think of it, Forrest could just as easily release a new poem right now that leads to one of his bells if he likes. But I think that he likes the idea of them being found a thousand years from now too much.

          • Correct me if I’m wrong,but didn’t he bury Jars with his autobiography inside.I don’t think he buried bells.
            Charlie I think you might be right about the bell but I don’t think you have to dig it up.

          • Onuat;
            There is a whole chapter in TTOTC called “Dancing with the Millennium” that is dedicated to the bells that Forrest has made and buried. Interesting reading – JDA

          • Tim, the story of the bells is with Dancing with the Stars. DwtS leads to the Wy med. wheel. Using Dr. Eddys diagrams, look at what you get. Draw a tangent line. Me in the middle. Summer Solstice makes an “X”. Your map to the bell.
            Alas, and dame fortune, so often a fickle and seductive wench, never spun her wheel to lure them back.

            Does Big Horn ring any bells?

            Q-Forrest, You said you were able to read the name of the French Fallen soldier along with the poem in English below the name, but you never reveal the name in the book. What was the name of this soldier? I been researching this and it might be impossible and may be no reverence to your poem. My thought is you would want this person remembered like you would want to be remembered. ~Shannon
            A-Heck Shannon, you just widened one of my largest fault lines. In my haste to get back to the helicopter and leave that place, my effort was expended trying to remember the inscription, and I repeated it over and over. In that process the soldier’s name was not retained. All I remember is that his last name had an x in it. Is it strange that I would remember that? But there are no regrets because now he is my personal Unknown Soldier whose lack of identity stands as a metaphor for all men and women who fell in that ugly war and have now faded from our memory. F

            “If you should ever think of me, a thousand years from now, please ring my bell so I will know”

            . And what if no one ever discovers my art? Will my time have been wasted? I guess the rewards have been in doing it, and the enjoyment that comes with dreaming about what might happen someday. No matter. Is was more fun to run the risk of being foolish than to watch Dancing with the Stars.

            It’s fun to imagine. Maybe he did put a bell on the route, who knows. Onuat, like JDA said, he did say he buried the bells, but, it is hard to see him adding the extra baggage and weight to the trips out to hide the chest. Digging a 3′ hole in the thin aired mountains would probably be last on his list of things he would want to do. It is a pretty cool thought though, and, he did think of everything, lol.
            I don’t put much weight on any of this, just a cool thought that, who knows, may be true. Turn the med wheel, use the tangent line, huh, couldn’t be to exact though, fun research anyway…

        • Loco,
          Thanks for the link from MW. All I see in the link is that he buried the BRONZE JARS with his autobiography in them . It doesn’t really say that the bells were buried,only that he won’t find them.
          At least that’s my opinion .

          • Onuat, I don’t recall where I read it, but I believe it was stated the bells are buried and metal detectors won’t find them because they’re buried too deep.

          • It’s in the TOTC book just as JDA described, Onuat. There be buried bells out thar as well as jars.

          • Onuat and pdenver,

            On page 138 of TTOTC, he states that he buried whose bells about three deep so a metal detector can’t find them.

      • You implied that “breaking a sweat” might occur
        during carrying the TC. But finding it would be
        BEFORE carrying it.
        All IMO. Your mileage may differ.

        • It may be that one is not required to break a sweat in order to find the chest, TF, but I hope that’s not the case. I like the idea of the chest being hidden more than a hundred feet from a parking spot as some searchers have suggested. It does not seem in line with Forrest’s intention of encouraging people to enjoy the great outdoors of the Rocky Mountains if they only need to hop out and right back into their car in order to retrieve the treasure. All IMO also.

    • Slurbs,
      “Your effort will be worth the COLD Sweat.”
      Yep that’s what I always thought of this line in the last stanza.

  5. Has anyone considered teaming up with a like minded individual to crack this?
    Half of something is way better than all of nothing.

    • The only like minded individual I know of is currently in a strait jacket in an Alhambra mental hospital. If they release him in August we might make a combined effort. With his two personalities plus my own we may have a good chance at cracking this thing.

  6. Water high may be referring to mountain/altitude sickness. To help alleviate the effects until you become adjusted they say to drink a lot of water…I choose beer which is mostly water…Coors light if you want true Rocky mountain water. Water high = Coors. Warm waters halt in the brewing process when they become cold beer….

    • “Your effort will be worth the cold” means waiting for the mountains to turn blue on the can? 🙂

    • Well my name is on the can …lol, right between Rocky and Mountains.
      So, it (the TC) , must be right between Rocky and Mountains on ff’ s map in tftw. Rotfl

    • Could be.I always thought water high ment property borders.such as it’s public land up to the water high marker.

    • Big-
      At the start, before there were a lot of additional clues from Forrest…and long before he gave out the “above 5,000ft” hint/clue, “water high” seemed like it was there to let us know we were supposed to be in the mountains…
      Many were certain it simply meant that this particular water body was at elevation…not down in the canyon, but up from it..
      So for many, the water high has never been a puzzling phrase. Simply a descriptor of the elevation where we should be searching.
      After I stopped searching for waterfalls and water towers I too fell in line with the elevation way of thinking…and do believe that’s what it describes to this day.

  7. In Toby & Shelley’s latest video they announced that they would keep the bracelet.
    I have always believed that the bracelet belongs to Mr Fenn and had never even considered keeping it as an option. I’m sure the actual finder of the chest will do the right thing and return it.


    • I agree with you, Randawg. Not returning the bracelet to Forrest is out of the question for me, and I do not hope that a bracelet-keeper finds the treasure.

      I wonder if perhaps there may be something inside the chest that would give incentive for a bracelet-keeper to re-think their decision?

    • Fenn won it in a game of pool. He didn’t return it because he won it fair and square. If I find the box I’m not giving the bracelet back because in this game I will feel that I won it fair and square and it’s mine now.

      • What would be unfair? Forrest hides a treasure worth more than one million dollars, gives you nine clues to find it, and only asks that you return a silver bracelet worth one thousand dollars – at most. What is unfair about that? What is unfair is your cheapness. Just my humble opinion. JDA

        • JDA, I’m liking your common sense and integrity more and more. Parsimonious and to the point.

        • JDA, I think I remember reading that FF
          regrets putting the bracelet in the chest, but
          I don’t remember reading that he has asked
          that the finder return the bracelet to FF. Would
          you like to point us to where he asked?

          Thanks in advance.

        • Should I give it back to the guy Fenn won it from? I bet he wanted it back after he lost it but Fenn didn’t return it to him….. So in essence Fenn is just as greedy as I am….and if he wants it back that also qualifies him as an Indian giver. IMO.

          • Pd

            Hello new here but have been following alday.IMO TTOTC does not end with the finding of TC but turns the page to chapter 2. In this new chapter the presentation of the chest to Mr.Fenn allows the finder to undrrstand the significance of each item held with in. As for the items ,allow the hider to recieve his one truly missed piece of Joy.

          • Fenn was NOT greedy – They made a bet on a pool game, and Forrest won it fair and square. TRUE, Forrest put it in the chest, and it now will belong to the finder of the chest. NO ARGUMENT. Forrest has ASKED that it be returned, and he might even be willing to buy it back – but that has not been determined.

            The finder of the chest CAN refuse Forrest’s request or offer (assuming Forrest makes an offer to buy it back).

            As I have indicated before, to me, it is a matter of what is the “RIGHT” thing to do? Return a $1,000.00 bracelet to the person that just made you a millionaire, or be greedy and say “F—-
            you Forrest, it is mine, and I am going to keep it – so there!!! Pretty childish…. but what do I know? – NADA – JDA

          • FYI Bigbluecow,
            He won it from Byron Harvey who died in 1954.
            BTW what would a cow do with a bracelet?
            (…or a Coors Light?)

          • Lol your right thenole coot didn’t give it back fair is fair hahahah but then again he did leave us all 2 million to go find So heck I’d probley tell him to flip a coin May the luckiest one win hahah

      • (Note: Fenn might have been referring to the son Byron Harvey III. If so he died in 2005).

    • I know each person has the decision as to whether or not to do so, but I truly couldn’t imagine not doing so. It saddens me to read this.

      • If he has said he wants it back, the finder doesn’t really have a choice. Fenn said he will give you title to the gold, but never said anything about the rest of it!

    • May I point out, that until I recorded Fenn’s presentation at Moby Dickens Book Store in November of 2013, the subject of the return of the infamous bracelet had never arisen.

      The first reference never mentions the return:

      “Male: Would you want to say anything about the accumulation of that treasure and why [those specific things were put into the chest? Must have been a big piece of your life in some way. Or is that too personal a question.

      Jay: He’s wanting to know, on the accumulation of what you put in the chest, were they personal type items? How hard was it for you to put some of those items in there? How did you determine what you placed in there?

      Fenn: Thank you for asking that question, sir. I wanted that treasure chest to be part of me. I wanted – If I’m going to take it with me, I don’t want it to be a bunch of abstract items. I put things in that treasure chest that are very dear to me. One of them, probably the cheapest thing in that treasure chest is a wonderful little bracelet, has 22 prehistoric turquoise beads in it. The beads were found by Richard Wetherill. The first day that he discovered Mesa Verde and climbed down into the ruin from the canyon top. He picked up those 22 little turquoise beads. In 1901, when Richard Wetherill was excavating Mesa Verde, there was an Indian working for him that made a bracelet out of those 22 little turquoise beads, disk beads. They call it a row bracelet. It was made about 1902 or so. And, when Richard Wetherill sold it to Fred Harvey of the Harvey houses, and years later that whole Harvey collection was given to the Heard Museum in Phoenix.

      I won that bracelet in a pool game with Byron Harvey who was the nephew of Fred Harvey. That’s how I got that bracelet. I have an association. It’s the only Indian bracelet I ever had that fit me. I used to walk down the street showing off that bracelet. It’s worth about $350. It was special to me.”

      Far later in the presentation, there is a more obtuse reference:

      “Female: Is there anything in the chest you would like back?

      Forrest: Is there anything in the chest that I want back? Yeah, I want my little bracelet back. (Laughter) I’m glad you asked that question. Her name is M-a-c-i. Well, anyway, I’ve had about 35 men or people send me an email that says I found your treasure. I’m looking at it. Of course, I don’t believe it, but I write them back and I say congratulations. I say, “Will you sell me my bracelet back?” And, they say, “What bracelet?” (Laughter) And, this one guy said that to me that he had my treasure chest and I said, “Well I’m interested sir, did the hot water affect the patina on the treasure chest any?” He said, “Thank you,” and hung up. He thought I had given him a clue and he’s going to go out and look in all the hot water up and down the Rocky Mountain. (Laughter) People – everybody has their own gig. I keep saying that, but I believe it.”

      PS: We did not announce in our latest video that we would keep the bracelet. We announced that, when we find it, we will auction Fenn’s treasure completely intact.


      • Should you find it, would this also mean you would not be returning the bracelet to Mr. Fenn?

        • Please allow me to reword the question.

          Should you find it, and auction the entire treasure chest, would this also mean you would not be returning the bracelet to Mr. Fenn?

          • Yes, this would be a fair definition of “entire treasure,” but I also believe randawg’s post has merit, too.

            Whom would be preventing Mr. Fenn from receiving the bracelet? The finder of the treasure chest, or the person who won the auction?

          • Neither. It is Fenn who prevents Fenn from receiving the bracelet. He willingly and knowingly placed the bracelet in the chest of treasure. Then, he hid it with the intent of transferring title of the entire contents of the chest, including the bracelet, to the finder to do with whatever they wished.

          • Toby;

            You must be a lawyer. Legally you are correct. Forrest did secret the treasure, and expected that it might be found in his lifetime, or 100 years or 1,000 years down the road. AFTER he secreted the treasure, he expressed an opinion that he would LIKE to have the bracelet back. The finder is NOT obligated to return the bracelet legally – BUT the MORAL thing to do is to return the bracelet.

            If you are walking down the road, and find a wallet, and it has $1,000.00 in it. Are you obligated to return the wallet and its contents? Probably not, but what is the moral thing to do? I think that most people would say that you SHOULD return the wallet, AND its contents.

            It would appear that you are not constrained by such moral dictates. JDA

          • I am in concordance with you here ,JDA and Pdenver. Perhaps the “special connection” is now ringing into the abyss. Blinded by the light, it is all wrapped up. I would give FF the bracelet back unconditionally and inform him of the find, first and foremost. The NY Times can find out from their own sources. This chase was started by a decent person, may the finder be of the same ilk.

          • Yes, and when asked if there was anything in the treasure chest he would like back, he has publically stated the bracelet.

          • wow…and just…wow. I could only hope to hide a treasure and write a poem where humanity would have to equate ‘toby’ with ‘douche’ in order to solve the riddle.

          • Toby – we know where you stand on auctioning the treasure (complete with the bracelet FF would like back).

            That would leave you out of the twist in the story that involves that simple item. Thus far, I haven’t heard of anyone figuring this out but there is a reason FF asked for it and there’s also a reason it only came about starting in the bookstore interview; however, it appears you’re a pretty smart guy – so good luck with your strategy. May you have many successful and enjoyable trips to the field. IMO

            – I will return the bracelet upon possession IMO

      • I would make sure he got his row bracelet back but it will cost him a nickle or maybe a double eagle…:)

          • I believe Toby feels what he will choose to do is the correct decision for him. I would choose differently.

          • I understand both sides of it. Something like this that is auctioned in it’s entirety will likely bring in much more if it is complete. FF did make the decision to relinquish the bracelet thereby giving the finder the right to do what the will with it. The kind thing to do though would be to give it to FF, or sell it to him for whatever he thinks it is worth. If nothing else maybe some type of compromise can be made where FF gets it back but puts it in his will to go back to the finder. Sort of a rental.

          • What a glorious, simple, humane thought. Please don’t feel any need to justify it when others can’t grasp it.

          • just now learning the structure of this blog….my comments are directed to and in respect of those by pdenver.

        • I think the row bracelet is Forrest’s Everlasting Gobstopper: an opportunity for the finder of the chest to demonstrate moral character through charitable giving. Recall Forrest’s closing thought #4 in SB 169: “Give some of it back when it is needed.” Perhaps Forrest longs to recite Shakespeare’s words from The Merchant of Venice: “So shines a good deed in a weary world.”

          • In Google-searching keywords, I see now that randawg72 beat me to this Willy Wonka theory back in October of last year. 🙂

        • Plus, everyone is aware of all the instances of alliteration in TTOTC and TFTW — to say nothing of the most famous example in the poem’s first clue (WWW). Would Willy Wonka be that much of a stretch? We’re all trying to cash that Golden Ticket!

      • JDA…you’re comparing apples to oranges. A lost wallet, regardless of content, deserves return, if possible.

        Fenn neither lost the bracelet, nor was it taken from him. He knowingly and willingly placed the bracelet in the chest and hid it with the express purpose of having it found.

        What happens to the bracelet after he put the treasure in its place is none of his business.


        • And, according to Fenn at Moby Dickens:

          “I don’t feel like I’ve given it away. Whoever finds it is going to earn it. And, once they find it and have it in their possession, I’m out of the picture. They can do whatever they want to with it. You can’t – I don’t want to make rules for people after the fact.”

          • Toby – We will not change your mind. You, and only you, have to live with your decisions in life. I am delighted that you will never have to act upon the decision you have expressed here. How do I know that you will never have to act on the decision to NOT give the bracelet back to Forrest – A little birdie told me so…and I trust my little birdie. JDA

          • Your revenge will be watching him wear the bracelet? Never did understand that statement.

          • One thing that’s nothing hypothetical or fantasy is math which dictates that the odds of Toby finding the TC are slim to none. While this conversation has been entertaining it is fruitless. The finder will make a choice on the bracelet and the contents regardless.

          • Strawshadow: the exact quote from MW was: “*Me wearing the bracelet is your best revenge. f” I think the searcher who solves the poem will have had more than their fair share of naysayers poo-pooing their ideas. I believe this is what Forrest is addressing.

          • YOU believe that it is a wishful fantasy – well, wishful fantasies (dreams) really do come true – just you wait and see. JDA

          • Hi Toby,

            I think that a lot of us are hoping that the treasure is found while Forrest is still with us on Earth. I know I’d like him to get to see the exciting conclusion to the Chase that he started if possible (I know I’m trying to do my best to make this happen!). But if he does leave us before the treasure is found, I would think that this debate would end up being a moot point.

            For the time being though, I think missing out on getting the chance to hand over Forrest’s bracelet back to him in person would be missing out on a very unique lifetime opportunity, and a very classy way for the victor to bring the Chase to a close. Finding the treasure after Forrest is gone would still be great for anyone, but I think would have just a hint of a sour taste. (So find the treasure as soon as possible, everyone, ok?)

            I wanted to switch this conversation over to a more pragmatic direction: what were the main factors in your decision to auction off the entire treasure as one collection should you find it? Was it out of the desire to preserve the collection together just as Forrest assembled it, or do you think that this would maximize your monetary profit?

            If the latter, I am not convinced that this would be the right way to go. The trove has such a variety of valuable items and artifacts that I would think that dividing up and selling off the pieces individually (e.g.: selling the coins to a person who is a passionate coin collector and willing to spend top-dollar, selling the jewels to a person who is into high-end jewelry design and willing to spend top-dollar, etc.) would be the better way to get the most buyers’ money out on the auction circuit. How many people buy up an entire lot from an estate sale in one lump just as the original owner/collector assembled it? (Well, Forrest did do it that one time in Texas, but still it’s a rare occurrence.)

          • Blex…

            The latter. We’ve made the calculation. Even you referred to it as “the trove.” Nearly everyone here refers to it as “the chest,” or “the treasure.” If I recall correctly, it was even given a name: “Indulgence.” At auction, it would be referred to as “Forrest Fenn’s Treasure – Complete and Intact.” The individuals who bid on it are no more interested in parceling it out than I am. They want to own “the trove.” The winning bidder may even decide to give Fenn back his bracelet, and/or donate the remains of the treasure to a museum. Fenn and I agree on one thing: the owner can do with it what they wish. For our part, we simply plan to cash out, pay our taxes, and maintain our anonymity.


          • That’s interesting, Toby. The way you describe it, the trove almost seems to be a single piece of artwork signed by Forrest Fenn. I had not thought of it before in that manner, but it might have merit as long as there is a decent pool of interested, wealthy bidders out there who want to pay for the whole shebang. It definitely sounds like a lot less of a hassle for the finder to sell it all off in one transaction.

            Ultimately, I do agree with you that there’s no good argument against the finder doing whatever he or she wants with the treasure once they find it.

          • I think that a searcher that chooses to ignore Fenn’s words and philosophies is unlikely to be the one to follow in his footsteps and find the chest. IMO.

            “Greed is not a financial issue. It’s a heart issue.”

        • He made the Request of the finder to sell it back to him, not a rule, because he would just like the bracelet back. It seems to me that it is a request to the Finder. IMO . You can do as you please once you find the chest. There are no rules by him after he hid the chest, nor would he have any legal or moral standing beholden to any rules anyways. It was a request and that is all , IMO. You have your own compass for your life. Maybe he just wants to meet the Finder as a possible incentive to that end or maybe not. IMO . To give it back is just a decent thing to do.

          It doesn’t matter who you are it only matters who they think you are. To me this means, ‘ are you for real or just pretending to be of someone you really are not.’IMO.

          • Hello i have followed this “string” all day everyone has thier own choices to make in life. How ever being new here and actually heading out on my firsy search next weekend. WHEN i find the chest ,I personally ,will be heading to find Mr.Fenn for think of the stories he himself can tell the finder about each and every item in the chest ! We all talk about adventure and have dreams ,yet place the items befor Mr.Fenn and open a whole new adventure before yourselves. This is my opinion and whst i will seek to do thank you all.

        • Toby, yes, F put it in there. He could have pulled it out, just like it is his decision to pull the whole thing back. Would you scream, “Foul! Not fair!” if he took your treasure away, and nobody found it? I know YOU would, but fair is fair.
          I believe in karma. I’ve seen it work. The treasure will be found by the person that deserves to find it. I hope it won’t be you.
          I see you as an opportunist, period. You flip flop on your ideas as often as I change my socks. For an intelligent and educated man, you are also a very selfish man, and that’s OK by me.
          Pdenver, JDA, no need to stress his decision, he WON’T find the treasure!
          This is my opinion, and I could care less about your rebuttal. And, if/when I find the chest, I WILL allow Forrest to remove anything he wants back…because THAT’S how I roll!

          • If I were to find the chest, the first thing that I would do is bring the bracelet to Mr. Fenn. If he were to give me something monetary in return or not is not relevant. To enjoy a good conversion with would be sufficient reward for me. If I were to find it and god forbid, Mr. Fenn had passed, I would get it to his family. True or not, I thought I read somewhere that one his grand daughters would like to have it. I don’t care if it lowers the value of the treasure, there would be sufficient left to make it worth while.


            Windy City

          • Windy city i agree that no matter the time the bracelet should be returned. I myself when ( for i believe what is thought and spoken comes to past) i find the chest i fully intend to visit Mr.Fenn in person to gain the stories( first hand ) of each item held with in. Just think of the novel this would develop for the closure of this all. Chris

          • And…to comment on Toby’s YAWN below…that’s a typical narcissistic response.
            You JUST showed your cards, Mr. No Treasure!

          • Finders keeper, seems fair to me Donna. I mean seriously, Did this Karma character give 9 year old fenn the chance find of an arrowhead?

            Wouldn’t keeping that arrowhead be the same a Tobey keeping the enter find as well. I didn’t hear fenn trying to give that arrowhead back to any native tribe[s] that might be the ancestors of the owner. IF the chest is found 50 years from now, by a young relative of yours, who deserves to gets the bracelet then?

            There is only one thing fair about any of this… we all have the same information to work with.

            But to be perfectly honest, and I have heard the same said by others, … WHO, is this ideal person that is so deserving.. ~’The treasure will be found by the person that deserves to find it. I hope it won’t be you’..~ supposed to be?

            How about all the searchers that wrote books telling how to solve the clues or what the clues are, to fund their own search efforts. Are they less deserving? Is Dal more deserving because he gives us blog to chat about it [payed out of his own pocket ]… while others use the challenge and website pages to get advertising money to fund their personal fenn treasure hunt?

            Deserves to me means… the person[s] who solve this challenge first… Like fenn said; it’s out of his hand now.

        • Does everyone really believe that 15 years of Fenn planning that he has not come up with a skilled gambit?

          The prudent action of the 15 years he is often quoted about shows much thought to the end game as well.

          It is his game we play and he has said he thought about everything.

          Think about that for a few minutes….

          • I find the difficultly of the challenge to be first, how to go about solving the clues in the poem.

            Once a person has an understanding of that (which they will not be sure of until they have found the chest) a person must then proceed with actually solving each clue correctly (which they will also not be sure they have done right until they have found the chest).

            Any missteps or mistakes and you might as well be looking for the chest in the Antarctic because you’re NOT going to find it.

          • If Fenn had thought of everything by the time he published the poem, there would have been no need for the cherished little bracelet story to arise.

            Fenn had imagined that the person who searches for the treasure would likely be the same kind of person that would announce finding the treasure to the world.

            Then, likely in one of his before-he-gets-out-of-bed, hour-long thinking sessions, Fenn realized (after deciding NOT to include the $100k IOU in the chest) that he has no way of knowing if the treasure found by, what our friend Donna would describe, as an immoral character – the one that could decide not to let Fenn know the treasure has been recovered.

            Thus, provided the opportunity at Moby Dickens, he plants the bracelet story. He nurtured it up until about a year ago.

            And, oh, by the way, it was not by way of coincidence that the question was asked.

          • There’s lots of stories about all the items in the chest just because he divulged one story over another has no conscience on the correct solve or out come of the chase. The item to think about is the story he will NOT tell, about the item he will not talk about because that is the item has to do with the out come of the chase and possible the correct solve. He has thought about the “mystery” item over and over and he has decided a reason why we should not know. This reason has to do with his plan for the chase or the chest. If it was of no importance he would already disscused it. His ability to keep that item a secret shows its importance to the chase and the outcome of the chase. We know this because of the only thing he said about the mystery it which is its meant for the finder.

            The bracelet may just be something he likes to draw attention to when it comes to the chest, similar to how he likes to draw attention to the Madison when it comes to the search area.

          • The one item that is meant for the finder that he didn’t mention has much more value than the bracelet. IMO

          • The answer quoted below has always intrigued me. There has been focus on what FF had said “she” but I just think that ‘she’ is just a default speak by him and not a gender specific; no different than a guy calls his car or boat a ‘she’. IMO .I am most curious of what this “something saved specifically” in TC is.


            “No Mike, everything in the chest is straight forward and visual, except my autobiography, which some might find dull. Oops, I forgot, there is one thing in the chest that I have not talked about except to say I don’t want to talk about it. It is something saved especially for the person who solves the clues. I think that person will be pleased when she sees it. f”

          • Edit correction: ‘ something save especially” not what I typed as ‘ something saved specifically’.

          • Covert one
            How can you say (as fact) that the mystery item has far more value than the bracelet? What proof do you have? Do you have the chest? If not – kindly retract your statement, or at least say that it is your OPINION that the mystery item MAY be more valuable than the bracelet. Just sayin’ JDA

          • JDA
            I agree if its used in a physical sense, yet if used in a mental value how can one say or state its value/s. Chris

          • Toby ~ ‘Fenn realized (after deciding NOT to include the $100k IOU in the chest) that he has no way of knowing if the treasure found…’
            ‘And, oh, by the way, it was not by way of coincidence that the question was asked.’

            I recall a very early on Q&A [ found in Forrest gets mail ] that explained about NO iou or safety deposit box to worry about. Yet, I don’t recall hearing/reading of a comment about fenn “deciding” not to have such in the chest. But I do recall searchers *thinking* that as a possibility [rumors go a long way]… I would really like the reference to that… can you post it?

            The other part from the your comment about a question being asked [I know the question covert one refers to]
            You said~ ‘he plants the bracelet story… and… ‘it was not by way of coincidence that the question was asked.’
            Exactly what question are you referring to? [and post that as well].
            That way we can judge for ourselves, and not let another *thought* turn into some kinda factual rumor.

          • Al;

            I do not have the chest in my hands (yet), so what I say is just supposition. It is my belief that the mystery item will correlate very much with the solution to the riddles in the poem. Although “she” will like it, I think that I too will like it – maybe even more than “she” will. IF it is what I think that it is, I will be proud to wear it, although I will offer to give it back to Forrest, at the same time I return the bracelet. Just dreamin’ JDA

          • I hear ya JDA, nothing wrong with dreaming. Seems to me that he has his own style of morse-words being the mechanism. Curious to me is the word ‘saved’ . I would return the bracelet unconditionally also. I don’t really take what he said as wanting it back at face value as a request. I think there is a different premise to him saying he wants it back. Considering all potential timelines of if and when it is found and whom may or may not be around. It has me most curious of his real meaning. IMO .

          • Alsetenash,
            The answer to that question has puzzled many. [ Standing O, for the brilliant mind that thought of asking it..lol ]
            “…It is something saved especially for the person…” I like to think that fenn’s thought the item was actually “saved”; as to not being lost or destroyed, line of thinking, and not ‘just’ for the finder.

            “I think that person will be pleased when she sees it.” This could refer to the ‘same person’ that the item is about or came from originally and being saved for that person and now passed on to the finder to keep safe.

            Not unlike fenn’s wording in a SB;
            “I caught a nice fish and with it he took my photo. I mean he took my photo with it.”

            In this example fenn cleverly uses the fish as an item [ a camera ] and the fish itself. [ with ‘clarification’ to see the first line as truly meant ].
            “With it” in the first sentence has a different understanding than the “with it” the second sentence… Not unlike, what I think it’s the answer to the Q&A. At least, I think it’s the answer.

            However one reads that Q&A… the one thing I think we would agree on, there was a reason for bring it up.
            You almost have to wonder if anyone, prior to the hiding of the chest, saw that item just laying comfortably among the others.

            But it would be a long shot hunch to say it has anything to do with the spot the chest lays in wait… buuut does it have something to do with the clues?

            Now that I think more about it… that guy who asked the question was as brilliant as he thinks he is… ha!

          • Seeker, you make some very and clear points. There is a reason for him to say what he said as also within everything he says.

            Speaking for myself in opinion, at some point I would come to what I think the clues are, their meanings and location. I would measure all things of what he says and writes within my area and solve. Trying not to be biased and force to fit everything to my liking and thinking. So far, again just my opinion, I can relate most of what he has said and questions raised analysed to my site. Even questions you ask and are still outstanding questions. I , of course, have to finish my search yet. Good, I got that out of the way lol.

            It is this Q&A we are discussing that is unanswerable to me above all else. The ‘ I don’t want to talk about it’, “saved especially for the finder” and ” pleased when she sees it”. The asking for the bracelet back seems ,to me, to beconnected to this. Nothing else seems connected to ‘ bracelet back’ as much as this Q&A and I feel these are purposeful in connection by him. IMO. I don’t think this wonderment would help as a prerequisite to figuring out the clues because we won’t know of what that is ‘saved’ until it is found. But there is purpose in connection to what and why he said about the bracelet back and this Q&A. Of all things to wonder, this is most intriguing to me.

            Keeping the bracelet or giving it back to him is a personal choice for the finder. A personal choice that FF is being personable about. IMO . He ‘saved’ something ‘personal’ for the finder that he will not publicaly disclose in the inventory. Does it have something to do with the chest , or trove or treasure location? I think it does, that is why he won’t say what it is.

          • The only other possibility about the mystery item that I can think of in the chest besides the one I mentioned above is if its illegal. This seems like such a small possibility its not really worth discussing or thinking about, but since the chest was most likely hidden within 12 months after the FBI raided his house its not entirely out of the realm of possibility.

          • Count, what you said here I have thought about this scenario also. I think there is some value to the thought. Maybe not so much about it being legal or illegal but something of interest to the FBI . I watched one of Toby’s videos recently where he said that there is something questionable about the warrant they had, meaning the warrant itself was questionable. Any insight on that, Toby? Interesting anyways, hope to find out by finding the chest lol. IMO .

          • The Count, if one thinks about the mystery item being illegal, do you truly believe Mr. Fenn would transfer such item to the finder(s)? I sit here shaking my head “no,” in disbelief. I believe I remember hearing an audio where he mentioned he wished he could have placed a car inside the treasure chest. It’s possible it may have been something I read instead; it’s been a while. Whatever it is, just adds to the lure of the Chase.

          • Wow… hope this goes in the right place 🙂 PDenver where did he say he wished he could place a car in the chest? I guess he could have placed a bullet instead lol 🙂

          • Spallies, I believe it’s an audio interview he had given. I believe it’s found in the Media Coverage page. It’s been a quite a while since I heard this. There’s a mystery in the chest, and a mystery item in the jacket pocket he doesn’t want to talk about. He certainly can keep a secret. 🙂

          • Within the illegal possibility aspect of the mystery item there is a thing called statute of limitations, which pretty much means depending on the amount of time after the crime they can’t be prosecuted.

            Pretty sure the only crime that doesn’t have statute of limitations are ones that have to do with homicide.

          • The Count, you’ve got me shaking my head “no,” again this morning. I know I can’t convince you otherwise.

          • I don’t think it is anything illegal either. In the poem, ” I give you title to the gold”, might be hinting at this ” saved especially for the finder” . Since there are many other items in the chest that are not gold ;leads me to ponder a link to this ” saved” answer/response. IMO . Therefore, ” title to the gold” has me thinking its meaning may be not referring to the chest as a whole. Perhaps a specific something in the chest that is for something not within the chest. I perceive that when he emails a Q&A response ,as opposed to a live Q&A, there is more of a specific eluditory point he makes. IMO . Maybe I am over thinking cross references to his patterns, but ” title to the gold” has always struck me as being something specific and not in totality of the chest inventory. IMO.

          • Pd,
            I don’t think the mystery item is illegal, I already said what I think its purpose is. This is one reason I don’t post much here anymore, just seems like an unorganized jumbled mess of post, often that stray from one end of the spectrum to the other once a new chain starts plus the amount of rereading just to find a couple of post seems incredible redundant and often a waste of time. I’ll go back to just reading new stuff posted by Dal or Fenn here and leave the discussion to everyone else. Until next time, bye 😉

          • I’ve had some success using the subscribe option and following along with the email updates, but I agree that it’s generally a mess and certainly distracts from the content and muddies any conversation.

            Dal, fwiw, I this format works okay for stand alone blog posts (solves/scrapbooks) but the searcher discussion items would really benefit from a more standard form format where people could create posts, there would be conversation about them, and then they would fall off the front page as new posts were made.

            Just my 2 cents.

          • Hi Count.

            I think you are missing the possibilities of information within the posts made by random people.

            There are plenty of nuggets out there, and many can help you refine your solve in various ways.

            One just needs to be patient and observe what is being said.

            Good luck to you.

          • Hello The Count. I hope you’ll continue to participate in discussions.

            In regards to the mystery item inside the treasure chest, would you be so kind to go back to your post on July 23, 2017 at 7:29 p.m. and help me to better understand what you were saying, please?

          • The Count, I seem to be having difficulty posting. I’m hoping my original post will show up for you.

          • Pd,
            That post is just a possibility, just because I don’t feel that it is right doesn’t mean I will eliminate it from being a possibility until I have proof one way or another, and unfortunately on this subject there may never be proof that we will know of. I try not to go thought the chase with blinders on because my gut feeling sways me one way or another, in general that’s how many searchers have overlooked valuable information.

            I believe that post showed my feeling on its possibility and my feeling is my post above that shows a higher probability of the nature of the “mystery” item.

            Either way there just speculation just like most of our thoughts about the chase and the clues, but speculation may be the difference of being stuck in a rabbit hole and finding the truth.

        • I’m pretty sure sitting bulls people want his pipe back but I don’t see f. Giving it to them.
          Keep it all. Lol

          • There are thousands upon thousands of valuable artifacts from days gone by that have been bought, sold, stolen or just plain “found”, and they now reside in places that may seem foreign to their origins. Unless someone lays claim to these pieces for various reasons, it is good that they at least have a home where they are valued for what they are.
            Sometimes I think about all of the forgotten items that are stashed away in museums, colleges, town halls, and city buildings all over the world. They are long lost and forgotten, and not available for anyone to enjoy. That is sad to me…
            The talk about Fenn’s bracelet, is just that, talk. The searcher that puts in the time and effort to solve the Poem and retrieves the chest will have some decisions to make for sure…I wish that person all the best…if it ever happens. Personally, I just want to solve the Poem and see what the clues are from start to finish. That would be rewarding all by itself….

          • Ken,
            I agree ~ ‘ I just want to solve the Poem and see what the clues are from start to finish. That would be rewarding all by itself….’

            But when you heard of the story of a treasure [ and its value ] and a poem to be solves… be honest… was it the “lure” or the “poem” that got your attention to even think about taking on the challenge?

            LOL.. if the chest was a Tupperware container with some hand-made marbles, would you even have bothered.

          • Ken
            There are several reasons (personal) that have lured me to the hunt. Yet i believe the most swaying was a statement by Mr.Fenn with him saying (by my memory) that he wanted people to get off the couch and go out to experiance whats out there. As i have said i will be with my youngest son who has asked me to teach and show him some of the skills of survival. So why not include a treasure hunt to broaden his imagination and thought processes towards /in life to new possibilities. Yes the TC when found will be accepted- like winning a game of bingo and collecting the offerings of others- openly and graciously. Yet as i have said (there is IMO) a continuing story to be told. I have told all my children to listen to the stories told by the elderly for you never know what may be learned or where that story will take you in decisions later in life.

          • That is very good advice Chris. I’ve always cherished the stories of those I’ve visited with in nursing homes. Storytelling passed down thru the centuries were the first set of encyclopedias. Lol

          • Funny stuff Seeker !
            If it was a pickle jar with jacks and marbles inside I would be on it in a flash ! I just like old stuff…and more so if it has a good back story.
            Truth be told…I first heard of Fenn’s treasure while researching some common metal detector junk found by others. Might have been Treasure Net…can’t recall. Early on the lure for me was the mystery of the Poem…but yes…the chest and its contents made me feel like a little kid heading out back to dig for pirates booty. I was not star struck by the possibility of striking it rich…I learned those lessons long ago. The Poem has a good hold on me and I do want to see it solved…completely.
            And don’t bother with TY and his wild ideas…they are mostly just knock offs of past ideas that he has latched onto for some reason. Some folks just have the need to take things to another level… and the entertainment value is pretty good…but I do wish for his safety and well being.

          • Hi Ken: it’s the reason every one of my meteorite finds in the deserts of California has a specimen in the Smithsonian and/or the curated meteorite collection at UCLA.

    • I just watched this latest Gypsy’s Kiss video myself. Aside from the issue of not returning the bracelet, Toby & Shelley are also firm in their resolve not to ever share the actual hiding location of the treasure with the public. IMO, this is even worse than not returning the bracelet to Forrest.

      I think that Toby & Shelley have done a good job in thinking through a plan that will work well for them if they find the treasure, but sheesh, if they are not planning to ever reveal the solution of the poem to the public then I sure don’t want them to be the ones who find it (or anyone else of the same mindset).

      A few other points I’d like to make regarding this video and their plans for what to do with the treasure:

      1. I would say that, at this point, the Fenn Treasure is pretty famous and that it is already public knowledge that it may be hidden on federal property, private property, tribal lands, etc. etc. So I don’t think that Sotheby’s would opt to auction off this property if they know that there are potential legal problems tied with where it MIGHT have be found, especially if there is a chance that the treasure could be considered stolen property (I can’t show up at Sotheby’s with the painting “The Scream” and no documentation of where it came from and expect them to auction it off, no questions asked). Even if Sotheby’s would go through with an auction, then the federal government may put a halt to it. In reading about the history of the double-eagle gold coins, there are plenty of examples of sales/auctions getting halted by the feds. Honestly, don’t see an auction like this taking place without the help of Forrest and/or his legal team in order to confirm who has legal title to the treasure and that there are no legal problems tied to it (unless Forrest was kind enough to include some sort of legal paperwork inside the chest himself).

      2. If you do not reveal the location of the treasure and it is announced that the treasure is found, what is to stop Forrest or his legal team from publicly revealing exactly where it was hidden and open the legal can of worms themselves? Forrest can simply announce: “Yes, it was hidden in Yellowstone National Park all along!” and that will put a stop to any auction right away. Plus, you would then risk being prosecuted for criminal acts at which point you can bid any anonymity a fond farewell.

      3. I guess it is understandable to want some anonymity, with respect to the potential crazy characters who may show up knocking at your doorstep, screaming that they should have been the ones to find the treasure. But if anonymity is so important, why create a YouTube vlog that shows up on the front page of YouTube when one searches for “Forrest Fenn Treasure”? If it is announced that the treasure was found, and no one knows who it was, wouldn’t you NOT want to be some of the first famous searchers that show up in a simple internet search?

      I don’t think that this video presents a good template for what the finder of the treasure should do, in my opinion. One is welcome to give this strategy a try, but regardless of morality, I see it as pragmatically flawed with respect to its stated goals.

      • I like your post , Blex. I would be interested on your thoughts of ” revealed: 9 clues…” starting at 12:20 ish . Watch and smirk I say lol.

        Not only to think of not returning the braclete as a gesture of gratuitous decency but also to not even contact FF of the find and inform the NY Times as for the means to inform if ever it is found. This would somewhat be understandable to me if the chest was found 20 years or so from now for obvious potential reasonings. But in the present circa now that would not be understood by me, within myself. I only judge myself according to what I would or could do in an “if I did it in whatever way” . I would be at peace within myself showing honour, gratitude and decency. IMO.

        ” Just take the chest and go in peace”

        • Thanks, Alsetenash. This was my first “A Gypsy’s Kiss” video viewing, but I’ll check out more such as the one you mentioned.

          It’s interesting to think about how much the conclusion of the entire Chase depends on the whim of the individual who finds it. Ah well, not much any of us can do about it except to try to find the treasure first! 🙂

          • Blex, I know enough Spooks to know that it would never be one of them lol. IMO .

          • Just watched the clip you recommended, Alsetenash! Thanks, I needed a good laugh. LOL

            And does every one of these videos consist of him reading lists off of
            powerpoint slides in the background? Always a compelling presentation technique! I think I’ll pass on watching any more of these.

          • I enjoy watching the presentations, they do a nice job. I wonder though if you noticed what it is I was intending for you to notice the double entendres-they made me smile! All opinions aside, agreeable or not, this all creates a great story within the story about this thrill of the chase.

            It will be interesting to know , in the end when TC is found, what form of intelligence was utilized.

            “Me wearing the bracelet is your best revenge. f”

          • Amen Alset,

            “Me wearing the bracelet is your best revenge. f”
            No one after the fact would have the right to even know where the chaser found said TC. If ff is wearing the bracelet as proof the finder gave it back.
            That would be rich , to give the Natl inquirer something to really talk about. Lol

          • Thanks Kim,

            “Me wearing the bracelet is your best revenge. f”

            Poetic convergence at its best. 🙂

          • Agreed that this is one of Forrest’s most intriguing quotes, Alsetenash.

            And regarding your video clip reference, I thought the humor was in the irony that he was recommending people to stay off blogs related to the Chase, and not doing so himself.

          • Ya, it’s a loaded quote by him for sure.
            There was another . Advising people to stay off the blogs and then saying go on the blogs, pick a topic on the blogs and find one thing that someone said that helped you with the clues and then to comment below the video lol. Then does a short video clip explaining how to send a private comment to him on his YouTube comment section. Oh, and not to comment with any of your solve ideas for liability reasons. Just pointing out what was said in the videos. 🙂 .

      • 1. We’ve discussed with Sotheby’s.
        2. Because Fenn craves all the negative media that would arise as a result of the matter entering litigation? Ah…the Fenn legacy.
        3. As of this writing, the video has been viewed over 1,400 times, by individuals, who, if they found the treasure, could implement exactly the same strategy. Unless, of course, someone produces a better idea. (I won’t hold my breath.)

        The only flaws are your conclusions.

        P.S.: Thanks for watching our videos on YouTube!

          • I really didn’t feel like picking you apart last night, but it’s a new day, you’re still acting like a pompous jerk on this blog, and I have coffee, so let’s hit it! Let’s start with your last 3 responses:

            1.) You actually contacted Sotheby’s already?! HAHAHA! I’m sure that they were thrilled to get a call from a crazy person asking them if they would auction off a hidden treasure for him if he found it. Who did you talk to, their legal expert, or an intern receptionist who gave you some non-committal platitudes just to get you off the phone? Did they give you positive encouragement to your assumption that there are tons of wealthy buyers out there who are itching the buy the Fenn treasure at auction? Did they provide any opinions as to how much you may devalue the treasure by NOT revealing where it was found, even to the buyer? Can you tell me who you talked to? I might want to give them a call to see if they’ll also auction off Blackbeard’s treasure for me once I find it. I sure hope that they say yes!

            2.) I would think that there would be plenty of negative media if the Chase fizzled out without the final solution to the poem, and the treasure’s resting place, revealed. If I were Forrest, I wouldn’t want THAT to be my legacy. Take all that time to create and publicize the Chase just so one selfish person like yourself can run off to the auction house while giving the rest of the world the finger? I don’t know; maybe Forrest would swallow his disappointment and not say anything even if that happened, but I sure wouldn’t. I don’t claim to know exactly what Forrest is thinking, but from my perspective, moving forward with your plan is taking a huge dump on everything he set up. What do you make of this Forrest quote anyway: “*Me wearing the bracelet is your best revenge. f” Do you remember this one? It’s one of several Forrest quotes that I can think of off-hand that seems to indicate your plan is running off in an undesirable direction. Your plan relies solely on the condition that nobody ever publicly revealing the treasure location and I think you are on shakier ground there than you know.

            3.) Wowee, zowee. If you are going to make the extreme assumption that every single person who views your video agrees with your plan and will follow your harebrained strategy verbatim, then I guess I’ll make the equally extreme assumption that NO ONE who watches your video will choose to follow your plan of action. From reading the comments posted under your YouTube video, it would seem that my assumption is closer to reality than yours. Rest assured, if the treasure is found by an anonymous person and the entire lot goes to auction as one collection, you sir are going to be the first person that everyone is going to look towards.

            What I can’t wrap my head around is this inconsistency: You have spent SO much time putting out podcasts and videos and leaping squarely in front of the public eye in regards to the Chase, and then if you find the treasure you are planning to turn around 180 degrees and leap back into anonymity after revealing all of your intended plans? I’m not sure that’s feasible for you. Maybe for others, but not for you.

            Anyways, I think that your endgame plan from a pragmatic perspective is half-baked, based on some very shaky assumptions, and likely doomed to fail in ways that you do not expect. More so, your plan is not ethical; in fact it’s pretty all-around slimy. I sincerely hope that you, or anyone else who shares your opinion on what to do with the treasure in the end, are not the one who finds the treasure. I can at least thank you for doing a splendid job at doing that so far.

            Well, I’ll let you get back to playing TV-host-man in your living room. I won’t be watching any more of your videos, but wish you to best of luck in growing your viewership and scoring some of those sweet, sweet YouTube Geico ads and someday earning yourself SEVERAL dollars in revenue. Waste of time and effort indeed.

          • While I also disagreed with some of their plans, watching it wasn’t a complete waste of time as some ideas could be adapted to fit what I had planned to do. For example, anonymous email accounts to inform FF and dal. I have also considered Sotheby’s (though I’ve not contacted them – lol). I would prob auction it intact except for giving the bracelet back. So, not a total waste.

          • Being a Canadian has its advantages lol. Our tax laws are different for presious metals and what this trove would fall under. Just like our lottery tax laws- we are not taxed on lottery winnings . Plus, the USA IRS has no legal grounds to pursue any tax collection nor will the Canadaian government CRA collect for the USA . Say a person wants to buy the chest and contents as a whole. We could just trade a 5 million dollar house for the trove, title for title- no capital gains lol.

            Being anonymous about who and where about the chest matters not after the tittle transfer. I am not concerned about the loony tunes either. Most think Canada is a frozen Arctic anyways lol…just kidding! Their anger wouldn’t be worth the cold!

          • Hi Alt.

            I am now starting to take into consideration that FF’s bio has a title transfer includes to help eliminate legal issues.


          • Tim, add that to a list of possibilities lol. There is a thought I contemplate about his autobiography being in the chest. He has stated that he has buried many of his autobiography in jars in many places. So, I ponder this thought of there being anything other of significance other than just his autobiography. For he has hidden many copies of it. So, I tend to think perhaps there is something else in the chest he refers to as ” title” not in his biography . IMO. What be if another of his autobiography is found? What if one is found before the chest is found? Why the hair sample for DNA if it is clearly him in the biography? This leads me back to ” saved especially for the finder”. Intriguing. What do you think?

          • Hi Alt.

            “What be if another of his autobiography is found? What if one is found before the chest is found? Why the hair sample for DNA if it is clearly him in the biography? This leads me back to ” saved especially for the finder”. Intriguing. What do you think?”

            Thinkning about if he includes a transfer in the auto….I think you may be right…..to many copies.

            Hmmm….”she will be surprised”….what could that mean?

          • Tim, yes there are many of his autobiography’s in jars buried as he said. So, in the chest and in jars-cause for a thought on that and why.

            It’s not that she will be surprised , his quote was on MW:

            “No Mike, everything in the chest is straight forward and visual, except my autobiography, which some might find dull. Oops, I forgot, there is one thing in the chest that I have not talked about except to say I don’t want to talk about it. It is something saved especially for the person who solves the clues. I think that person will be pleased when she sees it. f”

            His whole answer is loaded 3 fold of intrigue. Finding the chest is the only way to know. This is a typed response , not vocal, so it unlikely a misspeak in any way. I thought about maybe ‘ she’ is a default gender word but the more now I don’t see that as have relevance- but more specific in meaning . IMO . I don’t see it as being “she” as in a female as a finder as some have speculated. IMO .

            Just interesting is all I can say, I don’t have much other links to go on for this one. Just a pattern of some such I notice but so very week I have at that even.

          • Blex,
            You, and others, really need to ponder on what you wrote: “What I can’t wrap my head around is this inconsistency: You have spent SO much time putting out podcasts and videos and leaping squarely in front of the public eye in regards to the Chase, and then if you find the treasure you are planning to turn around 180 degrees and leap back into anonymity after revealing all of your intended plans? I’m not sure that’s feasible for you. Maybe for others, but not for you.”

            Then, ya’ll might ‘see’ what Toby is doing.

            LOL!! Well played Spook, truly well played!! 🙂

          • Alsetenash, in regards to the autobiography and hair samples, one can claim in communication that they are who they say they are; DNA proves it.

          • Pdenver. Thus is true what you say. He would have to have a DNA sample stored, or a family member cross reference match, or body exhumed if not cremated etc. He thought of these scenarios ,I think . IMO .Easier to have sample stored and hair sample for testing. He has many autobiography’s buried, so therefore this hair can be used to legitimize .

          • Blex~ “…Chase fizzled out without the final solution to the poem, and the treasure’s resting place, revealed. If I were Forrest, I wouldn’t want THAT to be my legacy.”

            Ya might want to roll back to a comments I believe fenn made on just that subject… Paraphrasing… he would notify Dal’s blog and major media if retrieved.
            In another he stated he would not release the searcher info or where the chest was discovered if that was the wished of the finder.

            So while ya might think a searcher is a dog for not making a find public and by whom or where… fenn doesn’t seem to mind. As he has stated a few time… it’s out of his hands now.

            Personally, I have put little thought to what I would do. It would be like counting your chickens before they hatch.
            Yet, I wonder now if I would disclose the location [and solve] at all… I mean, that is what the poem is supposed to do, find the location, right?
            If folks want to know where that is… they can still attempt to solve the clues and go there for themselves.
            I mean, fenn obviously keep the place a secret from his family and friends all these years. Why would I be any different towards complete strangers?

          • Seeker;

            I think that I have to disagree with you on this one. Were I to be lucky enough to find it, I think that I would feel that the “world” would want to know where I found it, and how I found it. I am not sure just how that would be accomplished, but feel that I wouls go public.

            Would I write a book? Would I want to go on the “Today” show (or some other or multiple TV outlets) – I am not sure.

            Would Forrest and I make a joint announcement? Not sure.

            Step #1 is to find it. Step #2 is to announce that it HAS been found.
            #3 – TBD. Just my dreamin – JDA

          • Has anyone considered that ff may not have put the bracelet in the TC? If for some reason he wanted to put an end to the hunt, he could produce the bracelet & say the trove has been found but the finder does not want to disclose the location.
            Just trying to think of everything.

          • OS2, the bracelet is in the treasure chest. When describing the contents in the chest, the bracelet has been mentioned.

      • pdenver, here it is:
        June 2, 2017 at 10:01 am
        decall said “People argue all the time that the poem is too vague to get us within several steps.
        Fenn is saying that we can.”

        There must be something in the poem that gives us that kind of exactness.

        Re: the ff quote

        “Let’s coin a new phrase. You can’t have a “correct solve” unless you can knowingly go to within several steps of the treasure chest. Otherwise you have a “general solve.” What do you think? f (posted June 2nd, 2017)

        TT to decall and pdenver
        ; that’s a good point, but the word GENERAL may mean literally the rank of some as yet, unknown soldier. Now who is buried in GENERAL GRANTS TOMB? The answer might surprise everyone….Tom Terrific


        • No wait, it’s not who is buried, but who SHOULD be buried in Grants Tomb, Groucho knows…Forrest surely knows and why?


          • That’s funny, Tom. No one is buried there, because they’re entombed. It does remind us of someone. 🙂

          • How about the hint being about looking at the stars associated with the rank of General.

        • Thank you, Tom Terrific. What you posted may be true. “Rank” may be of some importance. I considered something of smell, but position may be a thought, as well as, other things. As for General Grant’s tomb, it would be General Grant and his wife, Julia.

          • pdenver, sorry but a lot of men would have taken a bullet for Grant, but literally someone did take a bullet for Grant, and you are correct, the MEMORIAL tomb is empty, except for Bulldog pistol that was used, and it has disappeared from the Smithsonian….Why, where is it? pdenver, I wIll Grant you some time to do homework on this connection and your eyes will bug out..


  8. Sunday it will be 19 months since I first heard of Forrest Fenn and the “Chase,”

    In those nineteen months I have made 14 trips to my site. Saturday will be search #15.

    If I have learned anything during those 19 months, and 14 searches, it is humility. Just look at all of the crow and humble pie I have devoured.

    I go on search #15 confident, but aware of the fact that it too, could turn out like the previous 14.

    I will TRY and STAY SAFE, and wish the same to all other searchers that may be out there in the hills , forests and mountains. in search of Indulgence – Good luck to you all. JDA

    • Good luck to you, JDA! Safety is of utmost importance, but don’t forget to have fun on your trip as well, treasure or not!

    • I’m so happy for you, JDA. I’m sure every trip was enjoyable to be out in nature, and enjoying an occasional ice cream treat with your family afterwards, just as rewarding.

      Good luck with search #15, and have fun.

      • Thanks pd – Every trip has been made with at least 1 family member one one with 11 other family members- WHAT FUN!!! JDA

        • JDA
          19 months & almost as many searches, we need to change your ID to Tenacious D. (JDA) Check for my note @ MW.

    • JDA- Please be safe in your search. I really enjoy your input and common sense on this site. Good luck!

    • Good luck, though not too much luck. I’m going out on my first search next week and prefer it still there upon my arrival.

      Stay safe at least. – A

      • Aaron, the week WILL still be there upon your arrival.

        I say this in an effort to encourage clear thinking, as
        it will be necessary to a correct solution to all the
        clues of the poem. Please note that I used the word
        “solution”. Until recently, I (like many other folks) was using “solve”, but I realized that if I’m going to act like some kind of “know-it-all”, then at least my language usage should be accurate and valid. “Solve” is a verb, not a noun. Good luck to you.

        • Thank you tighterfocus, you are right in that a correct solution is more grammatically correct. The English language has so many variations to everything that I don’t think it matters much. These variations had enabled f in the creation of the poem as well.

          I am ready for this search and can’t wait!

    • JDA, have all your 14 searches been to the SAME site?
      How large would you say the site is? Good luck to you.

      Wouldn’t it be efficient if humble pie was made from crow?

    • JDA … when you return after the weekend are you going to say … again … that the snow was too deep to search or the water too high?

      • Ken
        1) You must have missed one of my posts – No search this week-end. One of my team has to work – DARN!
        2) You make it sound like snow or high water was an excuse. The ground conditions are not excuses – I have stated facts as I found them. If you choose to take my “Stating of the facts” as excuses, so be it.
        3) Good luck in your perfect searches. JDA

  9. @ JDA,

    Good luck to you also! In fact, my cousin and I have just recently arrived and are in close proximity of my current solve area (since we drove out here from the east coast, I never told him about my little “side expedition” that I had planned until we hit the Kansas state line. But, needless to say, he’s now excited about it and currently trying to come up with his own solve areas before we get out there today).

    And FYI, this is my one and possibly only run at this TC. I don’t have the finances or time for any more searches in the near future. 🙂

    But again, good luck on your #15 run! Stay safe!


    • Thanks S-F-T-E

      Good luck to you and your cousin. What state are you searchin’? HAVE FUN!!! JDA

      • Thanks, JDA! We’re in the great Rocky Mountain “High” state. (LOL) How about you?

        But no need to divulge your locale, of course. A secret hidey spot is a valuable thing these days. 🙂


      • Thanks PDenver,

        And I loved your “mountains turning blue on the can” comment from earlier. Hilarious stuff! Lol.

        And FYI, Coors beer is some of my favorite. I feel like I’m finally home! 🙂


  10. Thoroughly enjoy and Appreciate all those that share their thoughts on thus site.

  11. I’d wear it until I delivered personally…oh wait, no, that might hurt…;-)

    Row bracelet. Funny how two little words can sum things up a bit…

  12. Just curious if the professional gambler from Vegas has checked in this summer, he’s probably ready for a crow pie recipe!

  13. Well, “The best laid plans of mice and men…”

    My step-daughter just let me know that work has reared up its ugly head, and she will not be able to search this week-end – SOOOOOO the search is delayed one week. My team – My step son. – My step daughter and maybe two other family members will search on the 29th. DARN work anyhow. OH well, it is all just as it is supposed to be. All is in divine order. JDA

    • JDA, sorry if I missed it but have you said which state or area you are searching? I’ll be searching in WY on the 29th, after a morning fly fishing excursion 🙂

        • Ah, I will likely be in or around YNP that day. Though I’d be happy to meet you it would be awkward to do so if we were both standing over the TC.

          • If you are in or around YNP, VERY unlikely our lines will cross, or that we will meet over the TC. Good luck to you in the “Fishing” – Hope you catch what you are “Fishing” for. JDA

      • How will not going this week-end, but next garner me more feedback? JDA
        p.s. I do not post here for self gratification. I appreciate any “Constructive” criticism. Your two offerings of feedback this AM seem pretty negative. What have I done to Pi$$ you off? JDA

  14. If you were to give f his bracelet back, I think he would reward your generosity with a similar gift, sorta like the Native Americans did. Then you would have an intact chest, and f his bracelet that fit his wrist so well.
    A fair trade is one in which all parties are happy.

    • but the point is that legitimate, genuine generosity wouldn’t expect nor require a ‘similar gift’ in return. It would be given without any expectation of a quid pro quo. pdenver only expects a smile in return. What a beautiful thought. I think you’re kind of degrading the Native Americans by suggesting they’d feel compelled to offer anything materially in return. Recipients of gifts know how to accept them graciously without feeling an obligation to compensate the giver.

      • When I first moved to Santa Fe in June 2011, I had a Native American hand me a pair of earrings and say, “welcome to Santa Fe.”, it was very genuine and heartfelt and i didn’t know him ever before then.

  15. Anyone have a guess of distance when f said “not in close proximity of a human trail”? I know there is know way of knowing for sure till the TC is found but any guesses?

  16. Thanks JDA, that would be trout in the morning and treasure in the evening. Actually both catches would be a treasure. Good luck to you too.

    • I’ll take two number eights, and a bag of “Buck-eyes”, to go. Oh, and a liter of milk.
      Jamie…., how do you find these things? lol, pretty cool.

      • Haha. Ill overnight a glass jug of milk so it stays nice and cold….as its presence in your request seems to out you as a true connoisseur.

        I found that because I wasn’t looking for it…merely brushing up on some historical blacksmithery brands to no avail.

    • That is awesome Jonesey :), my parents used to sell turquoise jewelry in AZ. When I was a kid, my mom says she now kicks herself in the pants for selling some off. They are beautiful and appreciate well. Thanks for finding that, cool

  17. pdenver said: Do you speak of Guiteau’s pistol?

    Did you know who got shot instead of the General, that was AKA President Grant? Guiteau, John something or other who did not like Grant, Grant who eventually died of cancer, but John really he hated someone else just as much, maybe more, and the English Bulldog Revolver which was used to commit the deed is missing, from the Smithsonian. John whatever who didn’t like him felt dissed and decided to assassinate the President, who would have been serving his 3rd term as President of USA, that is why he is the person who was should have been buried in Grants Tomb since it is empty, but it is IMO about that Memorial, somewhere in the Rockies. By the way Hamilton is on the 10 and was not shot in the head, it was his side, Jack Kennedy was shot in the head, and Eric Sloan’s work was admired by Jackie. Now whose memorial is in the shape of a BELL? For Whom The Bell Tolls, Borders? Bitties

    Do you still think a knowlege of history is or could be a key? Why is the ledge left hanging out? or is this an apparition on the EDGE?


    • I read it was Guiteau’s Bulldog pistol that went missing from the Smithsonian, which was used to assassinate President Garfield. Booth assassinated President Lincoln, which General Grant had the opportunity to be there, but left before night for New York. If I’m not mistaken, that gun is still on display at the Smithsonian.

      Head is ready to explode and I’m still not finished trying to figure out the rest of your post. I think you might like the following; I haven’t finished reading it:


  18. Random moral question: Is everyone who is interested in finding the treasure (i.e.: pretty much everyone on this site, including myself) “greedy”?

    • Today is nearly done, and although tomorrow is not promised, there’s always hope.

    • My main intent about the financial gain if I were to find it is so that I don’t need to make money on my patents. It would be enough money for me in that regard. My patents would benefit all. The greedy billionaires won’t like me very much lol.

        • Yes, good guess lol. Nothing of which is even thought of nor fathomed. But this is not the blog for this , though there is hints of it from the old to become the new. 🙂 .

          • Hmmm…sounds like a caveman kind of creation. Perhaps it’s found in one of the books. 🙂

          • Nice! Caveman lol. Archeologists have found some things that are remnants but they are just familiar fragments . Maybe in his books I don’t know, for I have yet to read them.

          • Gosh, I forgot about that. I know you would enjoy the books, Alsetenash. The stories are amazing. Some will make you laugh, while others might find you fighting back a tear. I actually cried a river on a couple of them. I hope you’ll decide to get the books.

          • Guess I do always seem serious lol. I do plan on reading his books but not before my last attempt to find the chest. I decided from the start not to read the books until after. I believe I have enough information at the moment- perhaps better to read them without agenda.

      • It’s a nice idea that discovery of the chest would lead into a rippling of positive effects on the greater world. I like it!

    • Blex..My greed is limited to the solving of this puzzle; the treasure would be merely a means to the end. I would find a way to use it to enrich those with a common interest. Paying it forward would be the best pursuit…

    • Hey Blex. “Greed” is a subjective conclusion.

      I may be greedy in revealing a general solve, but not in my reasons for finding the “trove”.

  19. During the Fennboree this year I was talking with Christi and Rita about chapter 20 “Cruise liner on the verde” in TFTW. I found it odd that Forrest tells us that there was 5 on the trip in all, and he only speaks of and includes pictures of 3. Today I was looking back at some older scrapbooks and found this in scrapbook 84. “Code of the West by Herb Mignery, dedicated to Forrest and Peggy Fenn, keepers of the code and folks to ride the river with.” It is at the bottom of a bronze statue given to him by Mike Kammerer. Could Mike and his first wife be the other couple, if so then that means Mike and Forrest go way back to 1975. After some research I did find out that his first wife’s name is now Jeramy Campagna Dove. Don’t know how knowing this helps me at all, but thought it might mean something to someone else. There are some stinky happenings in that chapter that tie other scrapbooks together with another chapter in TTOTC.

    Fred Y.

  20. get ready to barbeque when you go looking for the chest – there is a pit – – then we have wood – for a blaze- and we have water and we are going to have a party at home of brown- the beer is on you

  21. The discussion of keeping TC intact vs. giving Forrest back his bracelet, and Blex’s question (“Random moral question: Is everyone who is interested in finding the treasure (i.e.: pretty much everyone on this site, including myself) “greedy”?”) have me unsettled and a little bit nauseous.

    To those who wrote just above Toby’s “yawn” post, I’m with you. While I can’t imagine selling the entire chest, or maybe even any of it, I also believe anyone who did so might find that most people would look with respect on a person who demonstrates they have empathy and gratitude by giving the bracelet back before selling the chest. This wouldn’t negatively affect the value. It would probably garner more press and the number of bidders.

    More importantly, yes, Forrest named the TC Indulgence. Although most of us know the most common meaning of the word, there is another you can easily find in an “indulgence define” search: “a grant by the Pope of remission of the temporal punishment in purgatory still due for sins after absolution. The unrestricted sale of indulgences by pardoners was a widespread abuse during the later Middle Ages.”


  22. The MORAL dilemma of what is the right thing to do with the TC and specifically “the bracelet” seems to all be part of our collective “Illusive Dreams”. I feel certain that until a Correct solve over rules a General Solve it is merely a moral/ethical question we all wish to have, so after so many years of imagination and dreams on the L-edge of knowlege, I cannot escape those words which get the least amount of attention:

    So why is it that I must go
    And leave my trove for all to seek?
    The answers I already know,
    I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.

    So hear me all and listen good,
    Your effort will be worth the cold.
    If you are brave and in the wood
    I give you title to the gold.

    This understanding of passage 5 (mainly) and 6 (secondarily) has befuddled so many, so long I think it is time for someone to figure it out, is it a scramble of words printed on some MEMORIAL somewhere?

    Oh yes, I think If Indulgence were found by me I would lease it to one of the Casinos that could “insure” its display for everyone to see, and Lloyds of London could oblige a specified prem for the new owners value stated, that would give one time to contemplate exactly what is the best option, In Corporate America I arranged many such deals, once I arranged insurance for an Arabian Stallion, whose name I will not divulge for over 1 million, the premium was only 1.8 %. my commision was .018%.

    Tom T

    • Tom
      I can not remember where i read or heard (video) that Mr.Fenn hoped that the finder would place chest in the smithsonian for viewing. This would be cool IF the finder where able to afford to do such.

    • Tom T – I believe you are more correct that you think. There is a tie between the poem and a key (actually more than one) that involves being in the field and in at least one of the books. When you mentioned a memorial somewhere that’s actually pretty close. So in order to correctly solve the poem, there are two keys that must be first correctly solved (one in the field and one in one of his books) that will allow you to do that. It’s also the reason the little girl in India cannot solve it. She is unable to find one of the keys from the field. IMO

      Covert One

      • Ok so 2 keys. A monument, as one and another in field .thanks guys for the area im going to in new mexico has both ( a monument is the key starting point ,that leads to an end key hole at the end. This is my thoughts IMO I HAVE picked a good 1st search area . Again thanks. Chris.

  23. ff. who says he is Mathematically Challenged, and History is of no help in the solution, that is $18,000 and my take was $1,800.


    • Obviously Forrest is a little challenged where and when creating words, even old ones like; tare, pronunciation

      Tare, noun | TAIR
      Definition1 :
      a deduction from the gross weight of a substance and its container made in allowance for the weight of the container; also : the weight of the container

      2 : counterweight

      Any questions? ….Yes I see a hand, so I call on Tarry, did you have a measurement or a scant question about the correct solve?

      Tom T

        • OS2, something tells me that the measurement scale has to do with Tare and Scant and:

          So why is it that I must go
          And leave my trove for all to seek?
          The answers I already know,
          I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.

          I have my definition of what the importance of 90 is in both degrees, miles, borders and new and old, but when it comes to Tare or Tarry Scant my confidence erodes and I am lost in translation or should I say Conversion.

          Can I get some help here?

          Tom T

          • TT, I think you are on to it with your focus on stanza 5&6…

            I have some renewed confidence in ‘So Why’ being So. WY. In short, heres how I see it: Follow the prior instruction ‘ TAKE THE CHEST’ (the principle route — do not follow the legs or appendages) to ‘GO IN PEACE’ — an historic geographic place of departure or separation (possibly of death). Those answers you already know. ‘ALREADY KNOW’…. sounds like your at the beginning again… Not there, but a new recognition.

            And yes, I can see ‘tarry’ as a measurement. Switching senses from time to weight to distance. I was always curious about ff’s not drinking diet sodas because he “didn’t want to lose weight.” (I think diet sodas came long after his cap collection days)

      • In, “For Whom The Bell Tolls,” Chapter 5, it used the word “tarry” in it:

        There was no wind, and, outside now of the warm air of the cave, heavy with smoke of both tobacco and charcoal, with the odor of cooked rice and meat, saffron, pimentos, and oil, the tarry, wine-spilled smell of the big skin hung beside the door,…”

        • If i may give my opinion. Tarry -tar covered. Would exspress a cured (ash and oil mixture) skin giving a very pugnant smell imo only. Excuse the interruption. Chris

  24. decall said “People argue all the time that the poem is too vague to get us within several steps.
    Fenn is saying that we can.”

    There must be something in the poem that gives us that kind of exactness.

    Re: the ff quote

    “Let’s coin a new phrase. You can’t have a “correct solve” unless you can knowingly go to within several steps of the treasure chest. Otherwise you have a “general solve.” What do you think? f (posted June 2nd, 2017)

    Let’s see, the TC weight is the gross measurement, so minus the container, the contents wt is? What is your answer Tarry (plural of Tare) Scant? Now where did I find that ledge to look quickly down from? That Marvel Gaze, 2.2 or 20.4 that still does not compute, why?


      • Jdiggins, the “tare” or removal of the container ie the bronze chest is the actual weight of the Chest of bronze and wood only, so Troy Oz would apply to the gold. 14.5833 troy oz in one lb of gold so less the gold of 16.87 lbs …

        Chest and contents weigh 42lbs. (Fenn said 44lbs. in one email, but has said 42 several other times) Chest is 10x10x5 inches and made of Bronze
        ChaseChat – Forrest Fenn’s Forum – a photo of the chest?

        Everything Forrest has done has been Precise. … So we have a total weight of the treasure chest of 42 lbs, less the gold of 16.87 lbs …tarry scant is not working because the other articles, gem stones, silver etc does not get a precise number so what else could be tarried away? Letters, words, or latitude/longitude?

        Tom, temporarily stumped, in the wood and runnin cold..TTT

  25. Good morning. Random thought – one still has to cross water to get to the TC.

    • In his logging video, he speaks of the guys camping close to a 4ft wise by 1 door deep Creek they stocked with dinner fish.

    • Covert One, crossing water most likely on foot? Sedans do not travel well in water especially in the mountain streams and never during spring runoff. 80 year old guys even with felt bottom boots do not do well on slick rocks or muddy bottoms.


      • Tom T – I think it’s clear that one would have to get in the water (less the sedan of course) and at least cross a stream by foot. “Put In” is a term that fisherman and boaters use for getting into water and that’s been one discussed here many times. IMO

  26. Spallies, I remember it. Forrest said something about he wished he could put a lamborghini or Ferrari or something like that into the chest. I can’t remember if it was a video interview or not though.

    • Maybe it’s keys to such a car. Car in a storage locker somewhere, paid for through his attorney, forever. 🙂 Hm. After a few years, though, we’ll all be self-driving or flying LOL.

      • Maybe keys to the “replacement” Bullet, which was
        very similar to FF’s original, except restored . . . and
        therefore, about like a new car of that era. Wouldn’t
        that be a kick to own? IMO

      • That would be one way of Mr. Fenn knowing the treasure chest was found. The finder(s) presses the start button on the key and the engine starts. (Giggle.)

        • That’s funny but you may be on to something. There could be something like a key to a safety deposit box, or something to that nature, that f could track on whether it has been opened.

          • Hello Aaron. It’s been stated there isn’t any deposit box connected to the Chase.

          • I’ve wondered if it’s the deed to a piece of land. Perhaps the land the chest is on… 😉

        • Hi Aaron: Scrapbook 35 would seem to suggest otherwise: “I said on the Today show that the treasure is not associated with any structure. Some people say I have a desire to mislead. That is not true. There are no notes to be found or safety deposit boxes to be searched. The clues can lead you to the treasure, and it will be there waiting when you arrive.”

          • Hi Zap, this does seem to suggest no safety deposit box, especially in place of the treasure. I don’t know if it rules out the finder being rewarded with something else and being notified about it inside the chest with the treasure. It is interesting that in F’s statements about the treasure having been found he seems confident that it has not.

            Thanks for sharing.

        • There are other ways than a safe deposit box to perform a “title transfer” of the goods. Indulgence has been elusive for a reason and FF “knows” that is has not been found. There’s more than one way for FF to know it’s not been found and it relates to clean transfer of title (even if he was not alive once it’s found). Yes, this suggests the actual chest is not in the field; however, a key element is left in the field (that will not create a legal issue for the finder). Oh…by the way, a metal detector can’t locate this item! When it’s found, it has the specific instructions on what to do – and it involves contacting a person designated by FF who then will complete the title transfer. It’s so well thought out that Sotheby’s would accept the paper trail. With this theory, no metal detector in the world would find this critical piece (either you know the exact location or not). IMO

          • Covert
            I agree in a degree. The poem states” if you are in the wood” as well wood defined (other than a fiberous material) refers to a bowl and an item made from wooden materials . There is mention of another meaning being slang but it is vulger. So IMO the article in the field could very possibly be just that Wood. No metal detector could possibly pick it up. Chris.

          • Chris – that’s right in concept. If the container was wood and it contained the “key element”, it could be buried and not detectable by anything until the right person came to the “exact spot” to find it….and to further complicate, the “exact spot” has a “rock” on top of it – that you have to move before you start to dig! IMO

          • Covert heres my take (IMO)
            1- WATERS HALT- a natural change in course
            2-canyon -just that
            3-to walk -repeated vibrations,alternate- to expand and contract
            4 – home of brown – weasel
            5 – meek – gental
            6 – nigh – close
            7 – blaze – crystaline rock,white fur,eruption
            8 – cease – stop
            9 – gaze – look
            10 – peace -serinity,tranquility,silence,stillness
            11 – seek – search
            12 – know – percieve
            13 – weak – lacking bodily streagth,age
            14 – good – morally excellent
            15 – cold – lacking warmth of life
            16 – wood – a bowl,object made of wood
            17 – gold – quantity of gold coins

            Why have i shown this in this format well i have gathered all the related to choose my spot by using the old adage “K.i.s.s. – keep it simple stu…” for myself for i easily find tangents (variations) to wonder down. I have read only 2 books by Mr.Fenn. as well as followed the “strings” of all those that post on Dals page. I leave in4 days to try my therory. I do hope that someone finds this chest.

    • Now that would be something… I wouldn’t put it past Forrest to do something over the top like that. Though just knowing one solved the greatest treasure hunt of our time would be a treat in and of itself. I think completing it and having the honor to share the story with the world would be an unimaginable honor. Being able to do that while Forrest is still with us would make it all the more special.

  27. Seeker: I gave you a very long and detailed reply to your post from many days ago and it died on the vine. Either you didn’t see it, or you had no response. I hope it’s the former: you do seem to favor an interchange of ideas, but often I give a detailed reply to your posts and they are met by silence.

    • I can’t speak for seeker but I know in my case I get pulled in many directions with the family, work, the side job, the other side job, and then there is the chase. Sometimes I go for periods where I can’t keep up with the threads and then I loose track of the vines. I subscribe sometimes but then I get flooded with emails. 🙂 So if their life is anything like mine I can feel some empathy for them.

    • I’m sure he’ll get back to you Zap. I’ve emailed him before and he would take a couple days. He usually comes back with something.

    • Hey Zap,
      I just scrolled up the ladder to the start of this thread [ July 17th ]… I didn’t come across the post you seem to be talking about. I don’t subscribe… so I could have easily missed it if the thread started over. Or read it, without the time to respond and forgot about it. Or I did respond and got an error… don’t ya hate that when it happens? Or my honeydew list took precedence. Or I was e-mailing Charlie because I didn’t read my e-mails and he was first on the list… I’m such a wanted man.
      Was it prior to the 17th? I just don’t want to search the archives if it’s in this thread date.

      Point me in the right direction, and I promise I’ll DoUbLe my normal posting size in response… lol… and risk Goofy putting a limit on amounts of characters I can use!

      • Hi Seeker — I figured you probably didn’t subscribe to threads, which is why you missed it. It’s why I’m reluctant to post a long reply when the message count gets up above 400 or 500. Once a 9 Clues or Odds and Ends incarnation gets retired/archived, posts within it aren’t usually read by anyone any more.

        Anyway, the post in question was:


        • Zap,
          If hoB is known prior, obvious on a map or not [ with the clues also known prior ] and planning is done prior as well… How can you have bad directions? I mean, a solve is a solve. But if not correct and the direction are wrong, it’s not a solve. We know things need to be in the correct order, and contiguous… but why can’t we figure it out especially on location with searchers passing by clues?

          You said;’ The successful searcher will have to earn it by putting in the hours — both at home and in the field — trying ideas, failing, making adjustments, and trying again.’
          Again… the path will be certain for the one, “beforehand.” If the clues are solved we’re told we “can walk right to the chest” Those and other comments don’t suggest many trips of failed attempts… Trying an idea is one thing. Having the correct idea is another. I doubt the idea of adjusting is involving failed searches and more toward understand the poem, it’s clues, and how it all fits with the idea of “what took me so long?” and not trial and error as the main ingredient.

          So if we have the clues we need prior to botg, [ and I really wish folks would stop stating the obvious~ BOTG are required to retrieve the chest ]. why do we need to start at wwwh? Why can’t we start at hoB.. or hlawh.. or go right to the blaze itself?
          It doesn’t matter if one thinks they have the clues… something imo is missing with the understanding of fenn’s down the road. ~ “I’m not flipping about this… I’m looking a hundred years down the road, maybe a thousand years down the road. People don’t understand that.”
          I don’t know about anyone else, but this screams ‘time’ should be considered when reading the poem… and not only for longevity of clue references. It would seem to me that the first clue [wwh] might need to be understood how time might relate[ we are told to start at the beginning, and need to know where to start… Can “where” and “beginning” relate to ‘time’?

          Is my assumption correct? My only answer is… it appeared to be important when fenn wrote the poem… So what is it, we don’t understand? Do we need to adjust by failing or adjust our perception? Did those/the searcher[s] who might have deciphered the first four clues ‘but may not know’ figure out what the “important possibility” fenn talked about or are they in the same boat as the first two clue club members. There are many inquiries that need to be thought about… So my drawing board has been erased and those comments and thoughts are getting much more consideration.
          I personally need more confidence then ‘every clue fits on my road map, so I must be right! I just need to go and try my solve again and again and again and again …’

          Where is the thought… need to nail down the first clue, OR Don’t GO?
          LOL, I mean that statement seems very clear to me. Get wwh completely understood and the poem should work itself out correctly… and hopefully give us the smack in the head to… what took me so long.

          Well, in theory anyways….

          • I don’t think we know the process that the successful searcher will use to reach the TC. Maybe it is by trial and error with BOTG. Perhaps it will be someone understanding the poem and making their first search. I’d like to think though it will be someone that is able to make changes to their way of thinking or strategy after being unsuccessful. Some of the most successful people in life in general have failed a few times and learned from it.

            My family and I will be starting our first search tomorrow. I am confident in my location and search method. I know however that if it does not work then either I missed something or I need to go back to the drawing board.
            In any case I am stoked to have the opportunity this week to spend time with my family in a beautiful area while searching for the end of f’s rainbow.

        • Hi Seeker — thanks for your reply.

          “If hoB is known prior, obvious on a map or not [ with the clues also known prior ] and planning is done prior as well… How can you have bad directions? I mean, a solve is a solve.”

          Well, I can’t speak for the folks who solved the first two clues but failed from that point on because we’ve never seen their solutions. But I can certainly imagine many ways to fail from that point, and in my opinion one SURE way to fail is to think home of Brown is the third clue to solve. I’m sure you can appreciate the potential impact of skipping a clue.

          “… but why can’t we figure it out especially on location with searchers passing by clues?” Many features labeled on maps do not have corresponding conveniently-read signposts on site. If the answer to a clue is found on a map, and the searcher doesn’t make the connection after months or years of research prior to traveling to their spot, I don’t think the odds are very good for magically making that connection in the relatively short time they have to spend in the field.

          “If the clues are solved we’re told we “can walk right to the chest””. I still believe that to be a true statement.

          “Those and other comments don’t suggest many trips of failed attempts…”

          I would agree. But the blueprint is difficult, and Forrest cannot have foreseen every possible incorrect interpretation of his poem. There may well be solutions that are even “better” than Forrest’s intended solution.

          “why do we need to start at wwwh?”

          To solve the poem, you MUST. But that doesn’t mean you have to physically go to WWWH.

          “Why can’t we start at hoB.. or hlawh.. or go right to the blaze itself?”

          As far as I’m concerned, you can go right to the last clue. But that doesn’t mean in the natural course of getting there you won’t pass by all the other clues.

          “Where is the thought… need to nail down the first clue, OR Don’t GO? LOL, I mean that statement seems very clear to me.”

          Well, *I* would never go with just WWWH, but I agree with the sentiment that if you aren’t absolutely certain you’ve got the right WWWH, then you don’t have it and should not waste your money until you do.

          “Get wwh completely understood and the poem should work itself out correctly…”

          I absolutely do NOT agree with this line of thinking. Having WWWH is the barest of beginnings, as all those failed 2-clue solvers amply demonstrate.

          • Hi Zap….Seeker…..Zap ended his post with….

            ” ‘Get wwh completely understood and the poem should work itself out correctly…’

            I absolutely do NOT agree with this line of thinking. Having WWWH is the barest of beginnings, as all those failed 2-clue solvers amply demonstrate.”

            He also wrote something else that stood out for me….

            ” ‘why do we need to start at wwwh?’

            To solve the poem, you MUST. But that doesn’t mean you have to physically go to WWWH.

            “Why can’t we start at hoB.. or hlawh.. or go right to the blaze itself?”

            As far as I’m concerned, you can go right to the last clue. But that doesn’t mean in the natural course of getting there you won’t pass by all the other clues.”


            My thinking has always been….one can solve clues from their home, but to clearly understand what the clues mean, one must have at least gone to their search location at least once, in order to understand what they don’t know about the physical aspects of the land. Having BOTG gives definition to the search area you use.

            We have all heard stories that maps do not give one justice or clear info to what the search area actually holds.

            For my “general solve”, I have realized that the first hint and first clue – along with many other hints FF has given over the years – has been to reflect one location, within a large forest. Forests are where you will find secret fishing holes off the beaten path. Which also can confirm many statements made by FF, or told of by FF through his interviews and SBs. One can also presume Forrest is at his most peaceful (spiritual connection) while in a forest. Logic dictates that one can presume the trove rests in a forest, thus eliminating all other lands.

            I also realize and agree to the sentiment that it is possible to know where to go, by passing up many of the clues. BUT this can only be achieved if the starting point is indeed the correct one referenced in the poem or the location FF chose and the geographical locations match exactly to the clues in the poem, AND if one can understand them as “married” to the poem, and their understanding is clearly seen.

            For my solve, I have a starting point and even a target area of no more than 50 ft. I’ve been to the area twice and…although it started out as a 200 ft radius, you can now tell, I no longer need to use the first eight clues, as I only now need to look at more thoroughly defined area I think the trove actually exists at.

            Am I right or wrong in my thinking?

            I, like everyone else, had to make a decision on where to start, in order for any end I am expecting to take place, to occur. I think I am right. Others clearly disagree.

            The hunt continues……

            FYI – the powers within the mind are also direct connections to knowing and understanding esoterism….which IS part of the final solution.

            Good luck to you both.

          • Zap, and Tim,
            Lets get down to the nutz and bolts and screw the botg for a moment.
            We’re told we need clue 1… no big surprise there, right. Told to follow the clues, and they can be figured out at home [the clues] [the completion is different. Can not done at home and that is obvious].

            What we are looking for is a place for fenn to retire…[skip the thought of the chest as well, for a moment].
            The clue are to represent landscape to be followed, right? [at least most of the clues referenced] and at least one reference may have not been around when fenn was a kid. [you guys know the quote as well as anyone]

            OK~ the idea is we have a solid thought process and we go to the first clue and the second… How is it that we can’t see what is in front of us on location?

            Folks have walked by, walked past, been near, the remaining clues and those same folks walked by the location of the chest as well… we’re talking seven clues that should have been seen along the way [or at least most of those remaining clues]

            Doesn’t it strike you funny, those folks might not have correctly deciphered the remaining clues at home… Yet still, couldn’t figure them out while in search mode… [this is where botg comes into play]… Most if not all the clues are referring points on a map [landscape, geographical points] , and while following our home-made map [from our interpretations] we can’t ‘adjust’ to the surrounding?

            Think about that… folks had to have taken almost the same trail / path / direction from the first clue[s] walked by the chest [the special spot] …

            So, It strikes me odd if we can know a later clue like, hoB and not be concerned about wwh at this point [ as fenn said ] … no one got a physical look at later clues, and didn’t understand / recognized any of them???

            Forget your brilliant solves… How can a searcher physically be within a landscape and not adjust when a clue reference might be right in front of them? I would assume if a searcher had HLAWH correct, they would not need to be concerned about any prior clues [like canyon, not far, hob, meek etc.] just as long as they got the first clue nailed down, right?

            Ok, this is almost laughable really. Within 200′ is not that big of an area, and those botg searchers that had the first clue[s] ‘could’ have been that close… “Sure I mean, people figured the first couple of clues and unfortunately walked past the treasure chest”

            What is missing?
            Is it just the marker they all missed? Was there another ‘critical clue’ along the way that was overlooked? Are the clues themselves needed to be used in some manner to locate a 10″sq piece of land? Or are people just so target fixated that couldn’t find an ant on an ant hill?

            Something is missing from our thought process vs. fenn’s.
            And imo, fenn has given us the idea that there is something important that we all are overlooking…. “-What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve.” ~feb 2015

            If you guys have that figured out… we wouldn’t be yakking about how to solve the poem, but chatting about the contents of the find.

            But now the big questions… is that important possibility something we need to understand?
            Or, something we need to do?

            IMO, it should be something we should know about prior to botg.

            And to be perfectly honest…I think it’s more about field work than just stomping out points on a map.

            “Think and analyze”…”Planning” and “Observing” and using imagination.
            Everyone here is thinking, everyone is attempting to analyze all this… What are we supposed to “plan” for? What do we need to observe?
            And shouldn’t we have some idea of what that means prior to botg.

          • Seeker, Forrest has said both that “searchers” and “people” have been within 500 feet of the treasure. This leads me to think that the treasure may be within 500 feet of a hiking trail (or road). IMO, I would consider that to not be “in close proximity” to the chest. What do you think?

          • Hi Seeker…let me try and answer some of your thoughts from my perspective.

            “Forget your brilliant solves… How can a searcher physically be within a landscape and not adjust when a clue reference might be right in front of them? ”

            Tim – not understanding the initial starting point fully. For example…..
            – when I went out for my first search in 2015, 2 yrs after beginning the hunt, I read the book and utilized it as a starting point in some ways. I figured logically speaking, FF is telling us. In so many eords, “I said four stayes, but my memories are in the north country…this I selected a starting point in the area he talked about.

            After doing that and then tryng to marry the poem to the landscape, I finalized my first attempt. It wasn’t until I had BOTG in that area, AND after asking locals pointed questions or non-revealing questions related to the area. It was thru that happenchance that I came across my WWH, and in truth, would have never found it otherwise.

            From that point I married all the clues. Am I wishful thinking? Of course. Aren’t we all?
            Anyhow…I can tell you, I had regi,ed it twice from that day..,.once from my search area I began with and now more refined to specific places.

            There is a big picture that that many are missing in my opinion and based upon my solution. I find that WWH is critcal, but not key.

            You also wrote:
            “But now the big questions… is that important possibility something we need to understand?
            Or, something we need to do?

            IMO, it should be something we should know about prior to botg.”

            As I stated above…I think it is something you need to understand and then advance it to doing something…..it opens up a whole new avenue of the hunt. It becomes logical.

            IMO….the double omegas helps.

            Good luck.

          • Hi Seeker….I was re-reading a post you made to Zap and I….and you had wrote this….

            “Doesn’t it strike you funny, those folks might not have correctly deciphered the remaining clues at home… ”

            If you read my previous response to that post, and how I came about the information I did…..then you can understand that it has taken me two trips of having BOTG in order for me to actually refine the path I’ve chosen. I know you want to eliminate this until you are ready…done….but I honestly think it cannot be solved without BOTG because of the lack of definition on any map for a target area…..time span between a map being created and the landscape changing since the map’ conception proves of those changes thru floral overgrowth, erosion, wind, human activity, etc…etc…..the land can change, thus a map can be “some” help, but not definitive assistance….and it has to be “a good map”.

            You mentioned that my starting point is still nothing but only a guess. Of course it is. And oh what a great guess it is. I could say that it would take something that is very straightforward to me, in order for me to change this starting location, because mine reflects the first stanza so well. Unfortunately, I have not yet closed the end game with my solution….but very active in doing so. So, all I can do now is refine the clues.

            FYI…I post openly, not to “brag”, because I know that level is only available to the finder, but I post to show my involvement, what I believe the poem represents, and to give my “vague” solution/perception to show others how far I am along. IMO – anyone reading these blogs can pass over me and disregard what I say completely. Shoot…some actually think I am bat-shite crazy for the notions I post. Do you? You shouldn’t…I am a very serious searcher.

            But I’ll let them think what they may….because I not only know that we are all guessing, but for me, I just don’t make a guess based upon nothing……there is so much logic and thought involved with my path…..I do move forward with a positive attitude…….until one pulls the trove from its current spot, I am just a serious searcher with a goal to be the finder……just like 250k others from all over the world.

            Good luck to you sir…..and be safe out there.

          • Blex,
            Just prior to that comment fenn stated; “It’s not a matter of trying it’s a matter of thinking…” SF podcast.

            For me… I think some would like to use the excuse that fenn isn’t talking just about searchers.
            I think when he answers Q&As and such… he is answering about searchers in search mode. LOL I mean, we even had some bloggers suggest that searchers were landing at a nearby airport and the flew over the clues and the chest… that thought seemed to help those who had the idea, fenn flew his plane to hide the chest… only at the time, he didn’t have a plane and he didn’t requailfy is pilot license.

            I think the same goes for driving out clues in a solution theory… Fenn stated he followed the clues. Others would like to think fenn only followed a ‘few clues’ from where he parked, skipping over the beginning clues. I guess it’s possible, but I doubt it.

            The idea of not being in close proximity to a human trail doesn’t really help me much in understanding the clues… what we might consider a trail vs. a human trail can be two completely different thoughts. Is a dirt path a human trail… or is a designed path, created for a purpose, a human trail?
            Is a mountain pass a human trail or do we just use the are for convenience and/or shorter route? Is the CD a human trail -?- even if we do hike it.

            Not unlike ~the chest is not in a Nevada, or the chest is more than 300 mile east of Toledo… is knowing its not in close proximity to a human trail going to get us any closer?

          • Seeker, when you read the poem and hear ff say he followed the clues you should IMO understand that the some clues like No place for the meek, the end is ever drawing nigh, and just heavy loads and water high, are clues/geographic/physical places where you do not necessarily have to travel in/on/or, into they are merely description of what you will see or to recognize.

            Tom T

          • And once again we see a searcher reference the places I’m the poem as something, “one would see as if driving through the forest.”

            Thanks Tom for commenting upon this viewpoint.

          • Seeker, what is a “human trail’, is it a pathway where people in mountain boots tread? But if it was a highway or airport runway, a trolley or train tracks would these be a human trail too?

          • Come on guys. Okay, how do you know what a clue is? Nobody can know except Fenn.
            Do you expect that people will somehow *know* for sure once they have found the first clue?
            No, many people have found the first clue but they didn’t know it. Until someone finds the treasure they will not know for sure that they have discovered the first clue.
            Forrest, Did you intend for there to be 9 clues, or did it work out to be just right with 9? ~ halo
            Nice thinking halo, I didn’t count the clues until the poem had been finalized. Although I changed it a few times over the months I think the number stayed about the same.f
            * To answer some questions and save others from being asked, I did follow the clues in the poem when I hid the treasure chest, although I hid it before the poem was complete. (Completed?) f (posted 6/5/2107)
            He didn’t even know he had 9 clues when he hid the chest.
            Tim – not understanding the initial starting point fully. For example…..
            – when I went out for my first search in 2015, 2 yrs after beginning the hunt, I read the book and utilized it as a starting point in some ways. I figured logically speaking, FF is telling us. In so many eords, “I said four stayes, but my memories are in the north country…this I selected a starting point in the area he talked about.
            This is called a guess. Plain and simple. Forrest may have never talked about the area. Guessing right at the start, meaning guessing what are clues. Sorry Tim, not trying to pick on you, but it is what it is.
            You notice Fenn has not said that WWWH has been solved? Just the first two clues.
            The poem gets us to a spot, the HINTS help solve the clues, the HINTS then get you to a spot. It’s the Hints that guide you to the spot. The poem is full of HINTS, solve them and it gets you to a spot, the treasure being at the spot, now you can figure the clues from the path you took and the HINTS used. He didn’t know 9 clues until he hid the chest, you will not know the clues until you find the chest.
            Everyone is guessing on what a clue is, where it is, and what it means, that is a fact. Do we really know if hoB is actually a clue? Heavy loads and water high? Sounds to general to be a clue, is it? Anyone really know what the blaze looks like? Or why little Indi cannot get passed the 3rd clue? What is the third clue? What does it look like? Since meek is childlike, could that be the 3rd clue? The word or the line? Is a sentence a clue?
            Is the blaze noticeable at first glance?
            By the time you are out on your search, you will be going to an exact spot, and not truly know the answers to these questions. Figuring out what you need to do on site, leaves a lot of “non-confidence” when you leave your house.
            IMO, look at the poem as a bunch of hints that will take you to a spot. Forget trying to solve the clues, they will reveal themselves. It’s the spot you are trying to solve for, it’s the HINTS you need to solve.

          • Charlie ~ ‘You notice Fenn has not said that WWWH has been solved? Just the first two clues.’

            While i’m tagging along with a lot you said [ said it my self from time to time ]
            fenn did say the first two clues were “deciphered” “figured the first couple of clues” etc. I don’t think there is much discrepancy between solved and deciphered… But lets face it… a solve is complete. So has you implied, maybe the ‘hints’ ~ “and hint of riches new and old” ~ is very important and often overlooked. { at least in most conversations about what all think a clue refers to }.

            The poem as all the information to ‘find’ the chest … and hints help with clues. LOL… it would be nice to talk about those possible hints within the poem once in a while… Like, how we nail down wwh out of all the wwh in the RM’s, without guessing, and have more certainty beforehand.

          • Seeker commented in part, “it would be nice to talk about those possible hints within the poem once in a while… Like, how we nail down wwh out of all the wwh in the RM’s, without guessing, and have more certainty beforehand.”

            Answer: elementary, my dear Watson. Just find the keyword. WWWH without that is nothing but a guess, and probably a bad one. But WWWH + keyword = Confidence. IMO, naturally; your mileage may vary.

          • Seeker, it’s funny you mention about the distinction of human trails, because on my first BOTG search, I was at first excited that although I was taking a path into the brush, I quickly came upon an animal trail that made travel through the seeming wilderness very easy, 80-year-old-man-easy in fact. Unfortunately, it did not stay that way and I had to consider it a bust. But the qualifying statement “human trail” makes me wonder if we should be looking for a similar situation with an animal trail.

            Charlie, just my opinion as always, but I gotta disagree that hints to clues are essential to solving the poem. The poem has clues and I believe one can conceivably find the treasure with the poem being the only information ever provided by Forrest. Hints help, but I do not believe are essential. I do respect the idea that some have, like you and Goofy among others, that a great deal of figuring out the poem needs to be done on site, but the “hint” from Forrest that one can confidently walk to the hiding spot on (what I believe he was implying as) their first outing keeps reeling me back to focusing on the poem, and having at least a general idea of a narrowed down search area before venturing forth.

          • I am of the opinion that the hints to clues are essential . I mean, are we 100% proof positive of what are the clues or hints other than wwwh? FF says there are 9 clues, whereas people still say they think there are more than 9 clues in their mind.

            If I am in an unfamiliar building for the first time and later I need to leave but I don’t know where I came in from; I need to find the way out. The door to get out is the clue but I need hints to find the door. So, I look for signs to lead the way. I walk around looking for an exit sign and it’s direction( hint) and follow its direction- I find one. Then I find another exit sign and (hint) follow its direction. Then I see a rectangle form with a panick bar( hint), hinges (hint) and door closer at the top right corner ( hint) and realize that I have found the exit door( clue). Without the exit signage it would have taken me much longer to find my way out. Is a panick bar, door closer and hinges, hints or a part of a clue? Either way, they all are important identifiers in achieving the goal. IMO.

          • Hi Seeker — I fear you won’t find my reply, but I’ll make the attempt anyway.

            “The clue(s) are to represent landscape to be followed, right? [at least most of the clues referenced]”

            I don’t know that I would use the word “landscape,” but if you substitute “geography” than I’m good with it.

            “… and at least one reference may have not been around when fenn was a kid.”

            By a straightforward, natural interpretation of his words, that would be a reasonable conclusion. But I would still not rule out the possibility that ~all~ the places/features the clues refer to might have existed. He said “most” of the places the poem clues refer to existed when he was a kid, and “most” is not necessarily exclusive of “all” — it certainly isn’t in logic or mathematics. But let’s not get derailed by that possibility. For the sake of argument, I will accept that one place might not have existed in case it matters to you.

            “OK~ the idea is we have a solid thought process and we go to the first clue and the second… How is it that we can’t see what is in front of us on location?”

            I know this sounds nonsensical to you, but believe me it can happen if you aren’t thinking the right way. This isn’t a great analogy, but consider the painting of George Washington in TTOTC. Suppose you believe the answer to a clue is something colored yellow in the painting, when in reality it’s a spot in the canvas where there are three raised dots in an equilateral triangle. Are you likely to solve the clue?

            “Doesn’t it strike you funny, those folks might not have correctly deciphered the remaining clues at home… Yet still, couldn’t figure them out while in search mode…”

            I think in my example above you can see how this might happen — if you don’t solve the poem correctly at home, being in the field wouldn’t necessarily provide the required intuitive leap. In my example for instance, shifting your focus from yellow to orange would be just as unsuccessful.

            “Something is missing from our thought process vs. fenn’s.”

            Precisely. You’ve got it. Most people are evidently thinking the wrong thoughts when they decipher the poem, which is why few advance beyond the first clue or two.

      • Lol, that’s funny. Can’t wait to hear the 20,000 word reply. No room for replies, archived, end of page, just brilliant. Don’t forget to mirror the post…

  28. So the chest is hidden where a body can be hidden and decompose with out animal or people smelling it. And it’s not in a cave it’s not under ground.it’s not in a grave yard it’s not in water. Its not in a old mine. And nothing to do with a man made object.

      • Since he has talked about sitting under a tree, and with Eric Sloane’s reverence for wood book with info on the “seek-no-further tree”, and all the references of trees, I’d guess the final spot has something to do with trees. Possibilities of hoB, Brown centipede home, fallen tree, seek-no-further, hidden not buried (except for sediment and dead vegetation), hollowed out log would make a comfy bed.

        • Charlie
          I can not remember where I read or heard Mr.Fenn say that he wsnt children to get off the couch and go outside , for families to look together for the treasure. For the children to look under rocks to flip over a log snd look inside. But you I believe are onto something. Chris

  29. Never mind — I still haven’t figured out where it is. Every time I come up with a solution, it’s too hard to get to.

    My first attempt was to go up an unnamed stream. I was sure if I could get back in the canyon I would find it. There was no trail, human or otherwise, though I kept hoping I would see one. That stream was so choked with logs and the slopes were so thick with either fallen trees or new lodgepole pine growth, you’d be doing well to get in there and back out again once in an entire day, let alone once in an afternoon.

    I did walk past a shed rattlesnake skin on a hillside. Fortunately, no snake.

    Still working on it.

    • This may be possible, SL, especially with the mention of Skippy should have been buried standing up. It also reminds me of a photo I saw at Jenny’s website which she posted while visiting San Lazaro with Mr. Fenn a couple years ago.

      • You may be refering to this, “In “Charmay and Me” in TFTW Forrest describes the following: “…I carefully removed the flagstone lid. To our astonishment, we discovered a black, smoke-smudged pottery jar that had been buried up to its rim under the floor. Inside the jar rested a rectangular painted bowl….” Found on page 214 – JDA

        • JDA, “The Thrill of The Chase,” chapter, “The Long Ride Home,” page 57, last line:

          ‘We should have buried him standing up.’

          • JDA, the reference you provided does hold merit to the possibility of how Indulgence is hidden.

          • Thanks pd – I think that you are correct. I guess we will have to wait until it is found – Good luck to you. JDA

        • Gosh, the more I think about the rectangular painted bowl, the more I question the shape. I don’t recall any ancient civilization designing their pottery in that fashion.

        • Yes I’ve seen this in the book and had a similar thought. I believe that very likely is how he hid it. Now someone just needs to connect the dots and go to the spot. For some reason it must be difficult to do or those who have been close would have completed it. Maybe its a mental wall. I think the chase is such a mind bender on so many levels it’s easy to get lost on all the levels. Perhaps that is why he said it may be easier for a child to complete it.

  30. Seeker wrote: “So if we have the clues we need prior to botg, … why do we need to start at wwwh? Why can’t we start at hoB.. or hlawh.. or go right to the blaze itself?
    It doesn’t matter if one thinks they have the clues… something imo is missing ”
    Seeker, I don’t think you have ever taken seriously what I have said over and over and over. My opinion is that I have correctly answered your question about what’s missing, many times. Have I not been clear enough?

    So let me repeat this … again. What you’re missing is any comprehension of … geographic scale. You say “Why can’t we start at HOB … or hlawh … or the blaze …”

    In the field, you CAN start at HOB, if you have correctly identified previous clues correctly.

    But you must first correctly identify WWWH. And WWWH is identified on a map … before you ever leave home (in my opinion). So too are most of the clues after WWWH, including heavy loads and water high (hlawh). You can indeed “start” BOTG from HOB or hlawh … if you have identified it on a map, previously, and if they are within hiking distance.

    Your confusion seems to reside in the word “start”. You “start” at home, not in the field.

    In the field, you cannot “start” at HOB without first knowing WWWH. Once you know WWWH, then you must figure out the next clue, from home.

    The geographic scale, in my opinion, is much larger than what you have considered. Driving is required for the first several clues. That’s how a searcher can get messed up after identifying the first two or three or four clues correctly. After figuring out correctly the first several clues, from home, said searcher proposes turning left in their car when he/she should have proposed turning right, or some such. Mistakes were made in the searcher’s home research. Subsequently, in the field, searcher is true to his/her home solution and turns left, but in so doing, drives right past the chest.

    Once your first five or six clues have been accurately mapped while at home, searcher can indeed skip them in the field and go directly to HOB or to hlawh.

    But far be it from me to try to change anyone’s mind on this message board. All of what I have said here is my opinion. I could be wrong of course. But at least my write-up here explains the question you always seem to have.

    The geographic scale for this treasure hunt (distance from first clue to the treasure chest) is much greater than what you, and others, assume. That’s why there are 9 clues instead of just 3 or 4.

    If your geographic scale is so small, then you really don’t need 9 clues, do you? You could simply scour the entire “small” area on foot in one afternoon, without ever needing to know anything about the last 6 or 7 clues; those last clues would be superfluous.

    This is my overall response to your overall confusion >>> expand your geographic scale.

    Ken (in Texas) 🙂

    • Ken beautifully stated
      The poem starts at (1) and ends at (9) .
      The way the searcher determins his destination is by correctly corrilating each in order to narrow the search area. Thank you again for helping all who read your lines . IMO CHRIS.

    • I totally agree with Ken about the scale of the Chase. I really don’t think most people understand how big the “big picture” actually is. And without absolute certainty of WWWH at the outset, you’re royally screwed, IMO! Add to that the notion that hoB is pivotal, and there is no way to find the treasure without understanding the relationship between the “nodes” formed by the clue solutions.

    • Well Ken, I’m not gonna say ‘beautiful stated’

      LOL… I truly get a tickle that you think you know my scales… I have discuss the entire scale of the RM range in one theory, posted another theory of a journey through time on a geographical scale, and other theories on smaller scale, even a scale of only 500 to 1000′ for all the clues.

      Fenn has stated that the clues can be solved at home.. but not in practicality. practicality tells me, if you want the treasure chest, one must go and get it. But it may also say… just deciphering the clues at home doesn’t mean they are not utilized in the field somehow.

      Does it matter on what scale those clues are stationed,[unless this route is a one way in and out] The concept seems to be easy peasy. Ha! but we still have searcher on site who walked by everything, right?

      What did they miss on a geographical scale?
      It can’t be both solve at home and be so dang stupid to miss clue references while in the field with all the locations right there… And still be known of prior.

      You said; ‘Once your first five or six clues have been accurately mapped while at home, searcher can indeed skip them in the field and go directly to HOB or to hlawh.’

      Yet fenn stated he followed the clues to get to the chest… Doesn’t your statement seem a bit off? I mean, he knew where he want to hide the chest to begin with, and built around that. Why in the world would he need to follow any clues at all? especially if driving is involved with such a distance we need a car to go from clue to clue [ to actually follow them ].

      Some of your other comments are so blatantly obvious, they are not opinions at all, but known fact from fenn himself, such as “you must first correctly identify WWWH. And WWWH is identified on a map … before you ever leave home (in my opinion)” ~ C’mon !! the nailing down the first clue has been pounded into to us from the start, even Little Indy can do that. Or the idea you need to solve one clue to get to another… brilliant.. fenn could have save himself a lot of time by not saying to follow the clues in consecutive order, the clues are contiguous, there’s no other way that he knows of…

      But yet, how the heck can four clues be deciphered and not be known?
      How can the first critical clue, along with the second clue be deciphered and not be known?
      And how can searchers [no matter the head count] walk by landscapes that can be found on a map, prior? when they apparently have deciphered the beginning of the clues. [ I’d say throw that map in the trash or hire a guide that can read one, IF that is all that is needed to be understood ]

      Planning to fill up the car to travel clues in not planning in my mind. As well as, something is missing in our observation [ whether on a map or in the field or both ]. And something is defiantly wrong with our analyzing and adjusting to the thought process we need.

      While I read many of your post Ken, and they do provide thoughts for me to consider… I have to consider how logical are your comments compared to fenn’s statements. If he followed the clue, there ‘must’ be a reason he himself needed to follow them. [ as he said, there is no other way he knows of ] and [ again, if the area is only a one way in and out.. ok, I can see the clues being a must to physically follow ].
      But you have driving distance between clues, and no real reason to be at them, because we should be able to simply go to the last solved clue on a map. None of that is adding up with what fenn has said.

      The thought that fenn only meant, some of the clues he had followed and not all of the clues is only an excuse to force one’s solve to workable… that is my opinion.
      It’s very easy to say how we think it should be done… it’s another to give reasons that match fenn’s statements. So Nope, you have not been clear enough for me.

  31. I just had a chance to watch this video and it really had some good parts but in two areas it was very, very naive. I am an attorney but don’t claim to be an expert with abandoned property, treasure trove, mislaid property etc. The part of hiring a tax attorney in DC and thinking they are just going pop over to the IRS and negotiate the tax on your behalf did make me laugh. Firstly, the IRS will NOT negotiate the tax. They will negotiate penalty and give you a payment plan but i can assure you the tax will be paid in full no matter who you hire. Now the attorney may set up a LLC or S corp and that might provide some tax relief. Since you’re planning an arm’s length transaction through an auction house which I believe is a very good idea, then the tax owed will be fairly straightforwrd since there won’t be any value issues. Secondly, if you think a major auction house will accept title transfer because a screenshot you’re delusional. All title transfer issues will have to be complete and satisfied before they will put it for auction. I’m sure they’ll want Fenn’s attorney involved and a letter from any federal agency if it’s found on public or federal land. If you want to go to a public auction which i think is smart, it’s got to be done right, not half-assed. But that doesn’t mean you couldn’t remain anonymous. I respect your security concerns and understand them. i think the basics of what you’re trying to accomplish are there but just a little naive.

    • Doug… you hit the nail right on the head. The plan presented in the vid. is very naïve in terms of being how it works in the real world when dealing with the IRS.
      NONE of this matters in the least anyway…the treasure is still sitting where Fenn put it. To waste blog space on this topic is senseless. OMO. Nice play Toby…

      • * * * * ken wrote – “NONE of this matters in the least anyway…the treasure is still sitting where Fenn put it. To waste blog space on this topic is senseless.” * * * *

        Yep. Besides which, it’s already pretty well covered in the source material:

        “Just take the chest and go in peace.”


        • I’m surprised the group isn’t referencing the Legal Ponderings (under Most Important Info here at HoD). The issue of WHERE you found it will at a minimum have some bearing on next steps (after its found of course). Unless found on private land, the finder will need to prove the location (in some fashion) to be able to sell/auction. Some say you’ll need to document the entire process…so there I suggest vloggers might have a leg up legally speaking…they will have time stamped proof that they DIDNT find it here, here and here, and then they did find it over there (if successful). But giving back FFs bracelet is a no brainer, at a minimum just to be able to sit with him as an equal…TYs version sounds like it would be the lawyers who would meet and figure out the details…can’t imagine that was part of FFs vision, but I don’t claim to know anything…IMOIMOIMO

          • What if there are no legal questions?

            I’m really amazed some times… What folks haven’t heard or dismiss.

            Geeezzz, more people believe in a lucky rabbit foot, magic 8-balls and weemeemageebee boards…than what the guy who took twenty plus years to get done.

    • Who in their right mind wouldn’t give the bracelet back. That’d be the best moment and partially the point in all of this. Some memories don’t have a price and that would be one of them. Just insane.

      • ——– Feathers-n-Glue wrote – “Who in their right mind wouldn’t give the bracelet back. That’d be the best moment and partially the point in all of this.” ——–

        I hope you get the opportunity – go in peace.
        And safely so.


  32. What if someone got all the clues figured out, and then published their solve? Or let’s say someone got WWWH, TFTW, HOB, and the blaze, but something about the location didn’t appeel to them? Would it be fair for them to publish their solve? There are no rules in this game, right?

    • I would agree. Go ahead and publish. In the Chase there are no rules … only guidelines.

      • Archipov? Interesting name: fellow christian soldier, master of horses, or submarine commander casting the deciding vote to save us all?

    • Many have published their solves, without benefit of finding the treasure. That is a personal choice. There have been LOTS of General solves…not one “Complete” solve – yet. JDA

      • First off, this is all my opinion & I haven’t put the time in that most have. I have put in about a years worth of research on the chase and believe I have a great location. I didn’t read blogs, watch videos, or searches from others until I had completed my research. I didn’t want others to influence my thoughts on the poem or clues. I did read Mr. Fenn’s book and his blog. It seems to me that most people are over thinking this thing. You’re letting all the words complicate your common sense. There is a big difference between being book smart and being wise. I just started reading blogs and different post, just to compare. It has been very interesting , to put it politely. I’m happy to say, I’ve only came across one person with a similar location. Mr. Fenn has made it very clear where he put the treasure, if you truly listen. I really don’t want to give away to much until I have the chance to search, I’m an American living in Australia and I’m in the process of immigration paperwork and can’t leave the country until it’s all decided. I’ve been here for three years now, so hopefully not too much longer. I can’t wait to get out there and see if it’s there. And yes, I will be able to walk straight to it. I will say that I did find a clue in the book that gave me concrete proof that I’m in the right spot. ( I already had my location before the find) My numbers, matched his…I cried when I saw it. I can tell you with certainty what most of his little one word or sentence answers mean, all you need is the book, like he said, and don’t discount any words in his poem. He is telling you a beautiful story of life and what happens along the way if you’re paying attention. My best advice to fellow searchers is this…think about your childhood & all the things you did then, tap in to that imagination, & just because you’ve been there once doesn’t mean you can’t go back. I personally will be giving Mr. Fenn his bracelet back & his arrowhead. I still have my first arrowheads & bits of Flint & he should too! I believe it’s the respectful thing to do. IMO I will never tell of the location to anyone, he might decide to return one day. GOOD LUCK ALL!

        • But respect is a two way street; and hope is dangerous thing. What if you know you’re close, you are sure you are close, and you just want it to be over. Slam the door on the relationship, so to speak. I think if you know you’re close, the chase can destroy you. So, I can either get on livin’ or get on dyin’ …

        • BirdieB,

          You said:

          “It seems to me that most people are over thinking this thing. You’re letting all the words complicate your common sense. There is a big difference between being book smart and being wise. ”

          Sometimes writing on a mirror with a dry erase pen, is wise. IMO.

        • BirdieB

          Good luck to you in getting your paperwork done, and being able to come to the US and search. A very mice write-up.

          You say, ” I personally will be giving Mr. Fenn his bracelet back & his arrowhead.” I was not aware that his arrowhead (I assume the one he found at age 9) was in the chest. Can you direct me to where you got this information? Thanks JDA

        • To: an American living in Australia.

          I’m sorta curious, what happens once you arrive here, are you gonna go all MadMax until you find it?
          I mean, realistically how many trips have you budgeted for?
          You mentioned, “I did find a clue in the book” are you talking about his memoir? [Canadian-Man says he doesn’t need a book]

          Here’s a safe question, which decade were you born & generally speaking where in the US did you live prior? Reason being, multitudes of people underestimate the duration/ severity of winters in the RMs.

          My advice is buy his second book. If you have to find work once you’re here, it’s best not to yammer On & On about this thing.

          • To theycallme9clues

            I’m a 47 year old woman, that grew up in South Georgia and lived in North Dakota & Alberta Canada before that. I was talking about his memoir & I don’t feel the need to read his second, TFTW. I don’t feel the need to go MadMax lol, I know where I’m going. IMO All the clues/hints take me there & only there. I’m only planning on one search and that will be on my way to see my mom back home in Georgia. I’m just a country girl that grew up on a farm , that’s all.

          • There are numbers, I used no math, no formula, I didn’t add line 6 to 9 or any of that. The numbers are there and very important!

          • Tighterfocus: the difficulty in proving “evidence of absence” notwithstanding, is it wise to make predictions about what is NOT involved in the Chase — prior to actually finding Indulgence? And suppose numbers ~are~ involved, but they aren’t actually crucial to finding the treasure. Under that scenario, being unsuccessful in recognizing the numbers would not be a valid argument for their non-existence.

          • Disagree Focus.
            Just cause you will probably get a laugh…i spent hours last night with those numbers below…i added them, multiplied them, found a pattern, try latitudes, hardshad #, morse code, applied it to the alphabet, searched zip codes, elevations, phone codes etc…dreamt of numbers and woke up this morning and said. If Hegben was that deep it would reach China and have a drainage hole, all the water would leak out and if you did plunk it at Hegbens depth then I could just walk around and find it. Giggles.
            Here’s a lady who may find the treasure because she has done the math and knows exactly where it is.
            Seems like you do have to do the math Birdie.
            There are numbers, just hard for searchers to think there are in the poem because no “X”. How can you get letter values when there are no X’s? You can get all of them. There are numbers, and, if you have the coordinates you could walk right to it.

          • Did Forrest ever say that somewhere if you have the cordinance you could walk right to it or are u just saying that

  33. I’ve been down too many rabbit holes. I need to get back to what makes sense, and to what works. So I’m holding up a green Peridot and facing north as I say these words:

    Oh helpful ghost of Billy Barty
    Please point me towards the Treasure
    Please let me find the loot this year
    If that will give you pleasure.

    I haven’t heard from him in a while. Hope this wakes him up.

  34. I have eyes wide open. It was another good day. The mark is already there and has been there for a very long time. M marks the spot of row 4 of block 23 and next it everyone one can see an X.

  35. Wasatch-cache national forest
    Wasatch Ute word meaning A low place in a high mountain.
    Cache french meaning to hide

    • The blacks fork flows to meeks cabin reservoir in the Wasatch cache beautiful place .
      SO why is it I must go.

    • DARN!!! It is NOT in a dangerous place!!! – Do NOT go where a 79 or 80 year old man could not go!!! USE COMMON SENSE!!! DARN!!! JDA

      • The common thread with these 3 searchers is their gross inexperience dealing with fast water, I agree JDA, use common sense and don’t go where FF could/would not go.

        • I think it’s there gross inexperience of common since did the ole coot really get in this water going this fast at 80 years old Nottttttt

          • Another sad example of what not to do whether or not Forrest spells it out.
            Prays to the families.

        • I just don’t get why people are using inflatable rafts and tying off with ropes to go in a river for the TC. They clearly are not doing proper research.

          On a side note, just did my first search today with no results. Four more days here though. We had a blast our first day. Saw the upper and lower falls of Yellowstone, lots of animals including a bison that walked right by our car in the oncoming lane. Thought he was going to charge our car for a minute.

          • Glad to hear that you were able to get your first search in, Aaron. It sounds like you are having a good time with your family out there. Enjoy the rest of your trip!

      • Unbelievable! I feel for this guy and his family… but goodness gracious people, use some common sense!

    • IMO I think people who fish rivers (I do) understand very well about the dangers of high/fast water…I stopped wearing waders because of one incident in the N Platte that scared the crap out of me…I lucked out that I still had some sun (late in the day, bottom of a canyon) or I could have had a dangerous hypothermic situation. For those that feel they need to cross streams/rivers…use common sense…test it, if it feels too strong don’t do it…risk calculation is a skill that has to be learned, seek out outdoor training classes if you don’t have any experience, most are relatively low cost and might just save your life. (avalanche safety, wilderness medical etc.). Also, for those venturing out, CO and S Wyo have had rain the last few days and rivers have been seeing increased flows…if you see the water is muddy this time of year you can be assured the flow has picked up, also you can check flows on USGS website: waterdata.usgs.gov. IMO anything above 500 cubic feet per second is dangerous and I would be very careful about where to cross…seek out the wider parts of a river. Also, searchers need to stop messing with rafts…and for f sake if you do wear a god damn life vest…its also the LAW!

    • The article links to another that catalogues the 14 previous deaths so far this summer on Colorado ‘water attractions’. There is no indication that any of these fourteen were looking for any treasure.

      People die on rivers and people die in car accidents going to a movie.

    • This is not new. This is the same story from a few weeks ago about this dumbass going down rapids with his friends in a Walmart raft, flipping, and then no one that made it to shore saying anything. As far as I recall, the “hunting for treasure” part was unconfirmed save for after the fact by some random on FB. He had mentioned it at some point, but not necessarily in conjunction with this rafting trip.

    • If the narrative is as described in that article, it’s gross negligence, mind-boggling.

      I’ll be on the Green River from Brown’s Park to below Split Mountain in August. With experienced friends and acquaintances, proper equipment, and lots of planning.

      And though it’s within my favorite search area, we are there to deal with and enjoy the river, the boats, and the company, not the Chase.

      Can you scout out some part of a Chase-path during a well-planned and organized raft trip? You bet – you can hike and chart tributaries, fish, paint, and frolic when not on the water during the trip.

      But a list of absolutely unnecessary – even undesirable – tools to use in direct pursuit of a Chase-path should start out with

      1 – RAFTS
      2 – WADERS
      3 – ROPE


    • Why do people keep getting in boats, if he had a boat he wouldn’t have made two trips. He was almost 80, smarting up people & have some common sense! IMO

    • Dal, do you find it strange it took Eric’s friends over a week to report the rafting accident? IMO, a group of friends stupidly decide to buy a Wal-Mart raft and take it down river, raft capsized, Eric never came up. His friends get scared for being blamed for their part in the venture so they spend over a week making up a story to free them from their part in the accident. They heard about Randy and thought it’s a perfect story…all Eric’s idea because “he knew where the treasure is”. It doesn’t take a week to report your friend missing unless they were getting their story straight. Just wondering if I’m the only one who finds this fishy.?

      • I am also one that thinks it is a tragedy that had zero to do with the TTOTC.

      • * * * * CB wrote – ” Just wondering if I’m the only one who finds this fishy?” * * * *

        I don’t think there’s enough verified info in the article to find it anything, fishy or not.

        Seems like what little narrative actually exists there is suppositions by a presumed acquaintance of a missing man.

        . . . . I guess that could also be phrased as:

        There’s little enough actual info in the cited article that you could make anything you want out of it.


        • I agree there’s not enough facts, but it’s sad how the article assumes he went missing looking for the treasure without enough evidence to say it’s due to TTOTC. Forrest has been through enough heartache over the tradgedies of Randy and Paris. Investigators should find out more facts before an article like this can be printed. If my friend went missing on a rafting trip I’d report them missing asap. At the very least, anyone who wouldn’t go for help asap isn’t a true friend, and I can’t say IMO to this.

        • You mean the fact that Ashby was missing for 12 days before his ‘friends’ reported him missing?
          And that they suddenly remembered that he mentioned something about Fenn’s treasure?
          It looks like he fell in the river partying and his family thinks the Fenn connection might prompt a more thorough search(?)
          IMO of course.

          • Looking at the article from a ” planned disappearance ” perception , it seems like a potential . Death threats to a friend pushing for answers? Create a backstory for why they were were they were and what they were doing based on some ” similar” TTOTC searchers events. 12 days? No search and rescue calls? Anonymous photographer as witnessing event and phoned it in, plus informed the news. Ex military in a Walmart inflatablle for class 5 rapids? I think he is alive and well somewhere- at least I hope so . IMO. They just didn’t plan on this concerned friend . IMO . Just what I see from the limited information from the article. IMO .

      • Maybe he found the box….and hauled ass from his crappy life. Fake his own death type thing…

    • This is very sad. What the article reports also sounds suspicious to me. Strange. Doesn’t add up.

    • As a sad twist of fate, the river incident occurred only a short time after Paris Wallace, and the message that it isn’t under water wasn’t out there yet. I’ve been following the story since the 12th. He apparently was a treasure hunter, had made some posts on chase-related Facebook groups, but it’s unclear whether he was actually searching the day that he was out on the river with his “friends”. The part about them not reporting it, unfortunately also true according to some Facebook screenshots that were posted. There wasn’t anything I saw from Facebook, from the people who were there, saying they were out looking for the treasure. It’s a messed up story, but I don’t think his disappearance was directly related to the treasure hunt. That’s just my impression from what I read, though.

    • Curly: “Hey Moe! Hey Larry! Come on fellas! Jump on this raft and come wit me. I know where the Treasure’s at!!”
      Moe: “Listen bird brain, some guy just drowned goin’ down the river using a Walmart raft. Ya think we’re stupid or somethin’ ?”
      Curly: “Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk. I thought a that fellas. I bought this raft at Target”.
      Moe: “OK boys, hop on. We’re gonna be rich”

    • Hey Dal, in light of all the recent events , I’ve came to the sad reality that “common” sense is really not that “common” anymore…….

      See ya my friend…….

    • Sad news to read this morning. I agree with the comments that it appears there was very poor judgement involved in this accident, that it seems strange and “negligent” that people waited over a week to report the person missing, and that the relationship between the Chase and the accident seem questionable at best, based on the information in the article.

      All the same, I don’t like reading comments labeling this person as stupid, dumb, etc. The article makes Eric Ashby seem like kind of a troubled person still seeking his place in life, who was eager to be friendly to others. This is another tragic event that should be treated and talked about with at least a minimal amount of respect for the deceased.

    • Colorado again. someone needs to make sure they are reading the same poem as everyone else.

      • Must have not been very good friends and not report the incident. I see the poem as a tour of sorts with a river involved but nowhere do I see that you have to use a raft to get there. I have crossed the Madison when it was filled with fly fisherman. Mr. Fenn walked back to his car twice. Anyone ever seen an 80 year old go rafting in Class V rapids. Twice in the same afternoon? Use common sense people! A child is supposed to be able to get there. It’s easy. Don’t make it difficult.

    • I wonder why there have been three deaths after several years of none. Are water flows higher, making whitewater more dangerous? it’s never been a good idea to jump in the Rio Grande gorge or other rapids without an experienced boatman, life vests, etc. Were people doing it before during the great Sourhwestern drought and we just didn’t read about it?

      • I think you bring up a good point, Linda. This has been an unusually wet summer in the Rockies this year. Compounded with that very late-Spring snowstorm that hit us, I agree that rivers in the Rockies seem to be especially high and dangerous this year.

        Another safety issue for people to be aware of is the lightning that comes with the midday summer storms. Along with being a wet summer, it’s been an especially stormy summer. When the weather looks doubtful, always err on the side of caution!

  36. Geeeeze what the heck is wrong with people The ole coot needs to tell everyone to quit going white water rafting he did not do that !!!!

    • 10 Colorado deaths on waters this year. Where there is intense challenge, some will find it, and by choice, meet it head on. g

    • White water rafting is rather exhilarating and loads of fun. And many outfitters derive revenue and create jobs by offering white water activities. When I was a kid, nearly every family vacation out west involved white water rafting one day. It was thrilling. No one needs to be telling anyone else to quit doing some fun outdoor activity.

      Many more people will die in car accidents than in white water rafting accidents this year. Should the ‘ole coot’ tell everyone to quit driving?

      • I don’t think you get the point I water water raft all the time here where I’m from The point is Forrest did not raft a rageing river He could tell people in the chase to quit rafting rageing rivers That was my point

        • The people that are being discussed here were all grown adults. They were capable of making adult choices. Maybe they did not prepared for the unexpected. Maybe any number of over looks things could have happened.

          Fenn has said time and time again where to look and where not to look.

          a 4 year old could go to the treasure…..
          don’t where a 79 or 80 year old cannot go…
          if you can make 2 trips in one afternoon….
          no dangerous attempts need be taken…
          no need to climb cliffs etc……
          be ready for the unexpected …..
          not in a dangerous place ……
          no need to take big chances ….

          I can not see any reason to put their poor planning / decision making on Fenn’s shoulders.

          • Forrest,
            You said in the past that the chest is not in a dangerous place; yet searchers are searching along Cliffside’s, raging water, and other seemingly dangerous places. Could you please elaborate or qualify your statement in which you said” The chest is not in a dangerous place”
            Edward, thanks for the question.
            The treasure is not hidden in a dangerous place in the normal definition of the word, realizing that there probably is no place on this planet that is safe under all conditions. Bloggers have quoted me as saying that a child could walk up to the treasure. I don’t think that’s an accurate quote because a three year old girl would have a problem without some help. Remember, I was about 80 when I hid the chest, and had to make two trips.f

    • There is responsible whitewater rafting, and then there is what this group did: inflatable Walmart raft, no life vests, and no helmets.

      • Although I understand these accidents fully and all the people involve deserve to be consoled…..all of them were not prepared.

        Randy – was not even in the parameters established by FF……he failed to understand the basic fundamentals that have been in place since the beginning

        “Pastor” – was by himself……he failed the safety requirement for an inexperienced person – always bring a buddy into the wilderness.

        Recent event – sadly, inflatable Wal-Mart raft doesn’t cut the minimum safety requirements for rafting white waters in complete safety….very dangerous, as well, doing it without the required gear. “Friends” didn’t report for “a week”??…..Very bad move on their behalf.

        My thoughts and prayers to the friends and family of these gents.

        Be careful and safe out there folks. “Planning and observing…SAFETY”…is a required fundamental…don’t go without them already in place.

        Good luck.

    • Did my detective work…
      Seems Eric had his girlfriend with him. She sent a text to his sister, describing what happened..
      Basically, Eric was in raft by self, it was a two man raft, she said other friends wanted to go, but he insisted he ride the Rapids by himself. He got out of raft to push it in deeper water, no mention of oars. He got pulled into rapid water, let go of boat. That’s the last they saw of him. She said they saw a cop right after that but we’re scared to say anything. They looked for “awhile” and went back to her apt. where his car was. When Eric’s family started contacting this girlfriend, she got belligerent. So, the family posted her phone number asking friends of ERIC to call and question her. Now, enters death threats to those accusing her/them of foul play.
      Police are investigating as a missing person and ALSO have several people “of interest” being investigated.
      Hang on to your suspenders, this one will get wild.
      His sister says he was into the chase, but he didn’t say he was hunting on this trip! She didn’t know. There is a go fund me for Eric, to help family members with lodging expenses while there from Florida, during search.
      That’s all I have for now.

      • Good work detective All sounds very shady Wonder why they ain’t found him yet

      • And so wierd why would anyone go back to there apartment when there boyfriend just got swept away in the river I’d be like help someone help usssssss

        • For real, I’d be belligerent in my shock and emphatic in my provoking rescue to find him. This is all unusual. I hope he’s alright.

        • Yep, me too. Normal human response is to try to be near the body of a loved one. Even the bones. Especially during shock.

      • Thank you, Donna M.. Interesting how the girlfriend was too scared to flag down the officer to let the officer know her boyfriend just fell out of the raft and didn’t see him come up. Holy cow.

        • You’re welcome. I went to FB, searched his name and scrolled through the normal lost person posts and dug up the “Becca” girlfriend spat with his sister. She left it up for all to see. They are searching the water, yes, but also thinks drugs involved. It’s so sad to see a situation like this.

          • Thank you, Donna. I just checked out the FB page too. There still seems to be a lot of confusion among the people leaving comments, and a lot of anger being thrown around, mostly directed at both the people who were with him, and at the local law enforcement.

            There’s one commenter named Scott Hurd on the FB page who seems to be the main person that is talking about the Fenn Treasure on the page. He seems pretty convinced that Eric believed that the treasure was hidden close to an area of particularly harsh class IV rapids called “Sunshine Falls” in the Royal Gorge area. I can’t seem to find this specific area labeled on any maps of the area. I’m trying to figure out what kind of solve would have led Eric to this area, but can’t come up with anything at the moment. If the falls are located somewhere directly below the Royal Gorge Bridge, maybe the bridge was his “look quickly down” location? Just random speculation on my part.

            Scott was not with the group who was with Eric when he disappeared into the river, but claims that he should have been there. He is also ranting about how Forrest should be locked up in jail, etc. etc. and a quick jump over to Scott’s personal FB page shows that his main interests in life seem to include marijuana, pot, cannabis, and also sometimes weed. This story is unfolding in some odd directions.

          • I had a crappy solve with Buckskin Joe as HoB (tbh, I forget a lot of the rest, but I think it ended with taking Tunnel Dr. from Canon City back up into the Gorge). Never looked at it with botg. Not sure where it is in relation to Sunshine Falls, but fwiw…

            Obligatory “if you find it here, hook me up” disclaimer.

          • ——– Blex wrote – ” He seems pretty convinced that Eric believed that the treasure was hidden close to an area of particularly harsh class IV rapids called “Sunshine Falls” in the Royal Gorge area. I can’t seem to find this specific area labeled on any maps of the area.” ——–

            Sunshine/Grateful Dead is in Royal Gorge, between the Parkdale put-in and the Royal Gorge Suspension Bridge, Blex.

            About 2 miles upstream from the bridge, in the middle of a 5-mile stretch of class III-V rapids.


          • Thanks, JAKe. I’m looking at that area on Google Earth now. The tight quarters of the gorge along with the white water of the rapids is very apparent now that you pointed me to the right spot.

      • Thanks Donna! Comparing with what was relayed to you with the news story looks like the investigators will solve this rather quickly.

  37. As so it goes with life; some will pay attention and take heed to warnings; some will perhaps think twice yet go on to pursue their desire anyway; then there are the rest who will not hear anyones voice but their own.

    Who was it that said, “If you wanna dance, you’ve gotta pay the band.”

    Sometimes; thats just the way it is.

    Prayers & thoughts going out to those left behind.


  38. From here on out every time a person meets an unfortunate situation within the entire search area…there will be those that blame Fenn whether it is true or not they were looking for the treasure. The disgruntled ones will have their say. It is imperative to be responsible and safe and to not give the Chase a bad reputation in any way.
    Don’t go into any water, don’t climb up or down any steep inclines, don’t travel alone, don’t go searching in the dead of winter, cough cough, tell others where you are going, don’t go into caves or mines, do not exceed your experience in any way. Bring extra supplies…water, food, first aid, fire starter, etc.
    Fun does not have to be dangerous…

      • I think so too DoDo bird. The key to this thought for me there were 4 others in the raft as whitnessed by a anonymous photographer there taking pictures ( reason why he was there also?) .Had it been the witnes seeing only one person ( Eric)in the raft would be more believable . This concerned friend also raised some questions and people- received death threats for his words. Too many holes to list. His frustration with the police investigation sort of hints that this isn’t straight forward also but it is an investigation so they are mum. IMO . I think he is alive also. IMO .

    • If someone waits a week to report you missing, are they classified as “friends”?

      • I think not! The pd has an A.P.B. out for one of the males that was at the location, apparently, he high tailed it! The family does fear foul play. One of his old vet buddies that heard about all this, is going public, saying the Chase needs to be stopped and is asking for an audience face-to-face with Fenn. He refuses to believe drugs involved, even tho those questioned have a history. He remembers Eric from the past, and no contact with him til he heard of mishap. I hope it ends soon, for all involved.
        Prayers for the family.

        • IMO The Chase had nothing to do with the death of any of them. It was their decision to search, just like it will be mine. People just need to be smart, I know my life is more important than a box. Be safe & smart!

          • hi Birdie. i have read where fowl play is suspected in the disappearance of Eric Ashby……I swear I had nothing to do with it!

    • That must have been an exhilarating experience. Also very cool that they were allowed to keep it.

    • I would have loved to have seen these young men’s facial expressions when they came upon this treasure chest and saw the contents inside.

      Thank you for the link, Lothair.

      • Since we don’t have all the facts about the latest alleged tragedy involving another (misguided/wreckless) searcher I for one would TREASURE a continuance of the thinking along the lines of Hints and Clues above, we had Seeker, Charlie, Tim Z, Zap and some great angles were being triangulated for navigation of a solve.

        One point that seems salient is that ff has stated yes, that he followed the clues when he hid the chest. My feeling was that following the clues did not insist that he traveled “INSIDE” the clues, like No place for the meek, which is preceded by “from there” same is possible with Just heavy loads and water high.

        Fenn seems to enjoy dropping hints and subtleties at random, especially at interviews, almost as if he were teasing searchers, did any one realize that after I wrote Winter Thoughts, ff suddenly show a train bell and there were at least several others, singing wire portrait? Just a flurry, of scrapbooks and posts that suddenly appeared? Perhaps it was all merely coincidence but when he said something to me at fennboree, I know he knew who I was and what our relationship had been.


        • TT,
          While I enjoy chatting about the challenge with others and the possibilities [WhatIF’s] of it all. I read the last part of your comment and it reminded me of fenn’s comment;

          Occasionally I forward parts of emails to Dal for use in his blog to add human interest for others who are in the search, ***but I never would if it made a difference or in any way might point someone toward or away from the treasure. Dal is also a searcher. I am determined to stay aloof of providing any additional clues that are useful.*** Everyone has the same information to work with. Some few have stopped within several hundred feet of the correct location, and then passed it by. I said in my book that the solution will be difficult but not impossible. If it was easy anyone could do it. Whoever finds the treasure will mostly earn it with their imagination. I have done only a few things in my life that were truly planned. Hiding the treasure chest is one of them. And at the end, the one who finds the gold will not feel lucky, but instead, will ask himself,
          ”what took me so long?”

          I’m going to add another comment that I think helps in thought about the conversation of a missing person and events around it, that is being talked about now… [even with the lack of real / factual information around this article]
          ” It’s not a matter of trying, its a matter of thinking”…

          Unfortunately some are not thinking at all. Not thinking through the suggestion fenn has given us. Not thinking about safety fenn has reminded readers time and time again. Not thinking about that the whole idea was to get kids out from behind their electronic games and out in the fresh air and getting families doing adventure together…but most of all… folks seem to think fenn is attempting to help them personally through a public and privately run blog[s] or at a chase related event… fennboree, book signing, a coffee get-to-gather, etc.

          IMO. That line of thinking by a searcher can be the most dangerous thought of all… believing that fenn is telling them something they have is correct by posting. Then what happens? That searcher goes out and does the something stupid because they think it has to be… simply because of a coincidence….

          “but I never would if it made a difference or in any way might point someone toward or away from the treasure.”
          That’s as straightforward as it gets.

          • Seeker, Thanks, and rest assured that I am 70 years of experience in the mountains, having Kayaked and rafted the Rio Grand from Arroyo Hondo past Pilar experiencing Power Line falls, Rock Garden, class 3, and 4 and admit I’ve done a few unexpected Eskimo Rolls so many other adventure ‘s survived…

            The recent post that I am trying to run with was the Definition of “tare” as singular of Tarry, and Scant as in remove with / from marvel gaze

  39. Can someone help me with something? I know Forrest has said that all you need is the poem and a good map, but I have read recently where someone said that Forrest also said a while back that you don’t even need a map, just the poem. Does anyone know if that is true or not? I have seen quotes of Forrest saying about needing a good map, but cannot find anything anywhere of a quote of Forrest saying all you need is the poem and not even a map.

    Also, I read recently someone said that Forrest said, I think on Jenny’s blog, that names of places will not help. There is a formal name for the names of places which in what I read said that Forrest used, but I don’t remember what it was. Does anyone know if Forrest really said that names of places will not help?

    • If that is true, then rule out all solves where the last name “Brown” is involved. In my solve, HOB doesn’t belong to a person with the last name of Brown… nor does the solve require a map.

      Very interesting if true…

      • I wouldn’t do that…..

        You could be discarding a clue.

        IMO – “Brown” is capitalized for a reason….to help the seeker. I also believe that it is capitalized because it reflects a pronoun…not a noun, but the phrase, ” below the home of Brown” also reflects the “place” to be a specific location, which now causes “Brown” to be an adjective associated to a location. Technically, the whole phrase now becomes a “noun” if looked at in its entirety.

        Did you follow along with all that?…..LOL


        Good luck!

    • mamakat;

      Here is the second quote: “Dear Forrest, What’s more important in solving the search, a greater knowledge (“knowlege”) of Toponymy or Geography?  ~Chris
      I don’t know how Toponymy can help you at all Chris (I had to look that word up). But if you knew the geographic location of each clue it would be a map to the treasure.” f

      Can not find quote #1 – maybe someone else can help you – JDA

    • Mamakat, I can’t recall ever seeing a quote from Forrest saying that the poem can be solved without a map.

      Whether or not someone can find such a quote, definitely don’t head into the mountains without a good map in your pack.

        • Dal, I, too, am going to YNP in Sept., this time alone, as my husband has to work. Not really going to search there (although I’m searching everywhere all the time LOL), but excited to see what it’s like at that time of year–we usually go in May! Good luck!

          • We went last Sept. after school started. I’ve never been to the area during tourist season; the Park was bustling, but nothing like the pictures I’ve seen during peak times. No problem getting a front row seat at Old Faithful. We didn’t even make reservations and only had a bit of trouble finding a room one night. But it’s starting to sound like we should wear name badges with prominent double omega’s affixed. 😉

      • Blex-In the very beginning..maybe the first year of the chase Forrest said many times that the poem is all that is needed to find the chest. Even to the exclusion of the book…This was generally in reference to a question about the necessity of buying The Thrill of the Chase book. Then, he started saying that there are hints in the book that will help you with the clues. It was not til quite a bit later that he made the map addition…But did he ever say we NEEDED a map? or did he just say that a good map would be one of the excellent research tools?
        “Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map. ”

        Question: Does somebody need to read you books to find your treasure, or do all the clues exist within the poem?
        Forrest: “They don’t need to read my book, but they need to read the poem.”

        “If a person reads the poem over and over and are able to decipher the first few clues in the poem, they can find the treasure chest, it may not be easy, but it certainly isn’t impossible.”

        And for those wanting to know the difference in Forrest’s mind between a hint and a clue..this:
        “There are hints in my book that will help you with the clues, but a clue will point you toward the treasure chest and a hint will just help you with the clues, if you can understand that.” (24:31)

        • Thank you for clarifying, Dal. I’ve been maintaining that the poem is the most important thing searchers should pay attention to.

          A map may not be necessary to solve the poem, but without studying a map, I can’t think of any other option than to wander around aimlessly with only the poem in hand. Maybe we could just say that a map is at least implied by Forrest as a “common sense” item to bring with you?

          • I agree Blex. I couldn’t imagine starting to figure out where WWWH is located without consulting a map. However, I have also noticed that a map really isn’t necessary to locate the places that the clues represent in my solution…
            I’ll give you an example…
            My WWWH is Madison Junction…
            Believe me..I am not saying this should be everyone’s WWWH…not in the slightest…I have no idea if it is correct and I am far from having a complete solution or even sniffing the gold…but for now it is where I start.

            I didn’t find my WWWH by looking at a map..if I had, I never would have noticed it. It does not stand out on a map particularly well…it just looks like a place where there is a confluence of two rivers…There are thousands of such places all over the rockies…

            So a map is not much good to me in determining the significance of that place. What drew me to that area was the “common information” about that site in park brochures, written descriptions and signage at the actual place. I only read about the area after being drawn there by the information in TTOTC. So the book provided me with hints that drove me to look around Yellowstone and visit many of Forrest’s haunts as depicted in the book. While exploring these rich areas I saw the signage at Madison Junction describing it. I read more…finally…I looked at it on a map…
            So, in effect, the book provided hints which helped me locate the answer to my first clue…

            The same thing has happened to help me locate places for answers to additional clues…but…as I said eariler…I am still treasureless…so I might be right…I might be wrong…
            Many others feel just as strongly about their entirely different set of identified clues.
            So although a map has been useful it has not been the driving factor in helping me identify the places that have become clues in my solution….and beyond all that…there has been a LOT of trial and error because there are always multiple choices…

          • Dal,

            Nice. September would be a good month. I might also be going to my spot that month.

          • Thanks for sharing that, Dal. I knew that one of your favorite WWWH locations was Madison Junction, but I didn’t know the process you went through to get there.

            One of the things I’ve really enjoyed on this blog is reading about the different processes searchers are using to try and solve the poem. There are a lot of different directions that people are attacking it from, many methods that never would have crossed my mind on my own, and I am looking forward to someday finding out what is the correct solution. The Chase could be considered the greatest multiple-choice question ever posed!

      • Here is an early comment that is probably applicable here…

        “Every day, people call begging for clues. The other day, I had 21 email requests. One man asked if he should buy a topographical map and I told him he’d be better served reading the book again.” Fenn looked at me. “All you have to do is think about the nine clues and follow them in order.”

        Mamakat – there are very few absolutes that exist in this challenge; the majority of searchers posts are their own opinions and interpretations of things that have been said or that people think have been said; accuracy is often NOT a hallmark in these things.

        Have you ever played the game where you have a group of people and something is whispered in the first person’s ear and then that message is passed on by a whisper one person to another? And the final result is nothing like the original message!

        A similar result is typically found in many of the thoughts and ideas that get posted by people on the blogs. This is why f has said to only read the blogs for entertainment. Many searchers are doomed to wasting their time and will never have a chance at finding the chest because the thoughts and ideas that are foundational to their solves are so far out of line with reality.

        If a person uses any after-the-fact comment to help justify their solve, then they better know what those atf’s actually are and also focus on ALL of the atf’s. Cherry picking a few that help a searcher justify and fit their solution to the poem is a perfect recipe for a nice vacation.

        A person can spend hundreds and hundreds of hours trying to track down and compile the many atf’s that exist, some of which are no longer to be found, or a person can get the most complete collection of atf comments related to finding f’s treasure chest here:


        • Thanks JCM. That’s why I always try to find what was said straight from Forrest himself.

  40. Hello everyone ….. Yep I’m new to this forum but I have been looking / researching this treasure hunt for a few years now. I have made one trip to Yellowstone and I have to tell you guys ….. Forrest certainly met his goal where I’m concerned. I don’t know that I would have ever made this trip alone but much like the thousands of people looking for the treasure …. I WAS SURE I HAD IT NAILED DOWN and was going to be returning home with that heavy little box.
    But after hitting the ground I quickly realized that this wasn’t going to be as easy as I had originally thought, and realized only after I made it home ( empty handed of course ) that I was so intent on having my solve be correct that I tended to twist things to make my solve work. I’m equally as sure that I’m not the only one guilty of this.
    In any case my trip to Yellowstone was AMAZING, and although I did not have the correct solve my trip to Yellowstone was in one word ….. Spiritual. I will never in my life forget sitting on a hill overlooking a gorgeous valley with Buffalo and dear grazing nearby ….. Listening to nothing except extreme quiet and serenity. For this I am extremely grateful to Mr. Forrest Fenn and I can only hope he reads this he knows what an impact that trip had on me.
    I was hoping to change the thought process on this forum from Technical to Simplistic. Forrest has said many many times that a child could find my treasure. And that it is not in a dangerous place. He has said that ”my treasure could be could be retrieved in just about any kind of weather “ we ALL need to listen and take heed when clues like this are given because “ In any kind of weather” pretty much rules out most of the major parks as a hiding place as these places close down a good portion of the roads during winter months due to Snow accumulation.
    Let’s start by saying that anyone approaching the solve using standard methods will never find the treasure. Mr. Fenn being a master of misdirection just wouldn’t have gone the conventional route. To add to that those who hope to solve the puzzle should listen to what Mr. Fenn isn’t saying versus what he IS saying simply because he is a master of mis-direction. Let’s start with some of the more widely discussed clues.
    1) It took me 2 trips from my car in one afternoon to hide the treasure. This is what he said. What he didn’t say is that the actual trips to and from the spot probably took 40-45 minutes roundtrip each trip. How many times has he said that the person who finds the treasure will be amazed and blown away by the treasure? Fenn is meticulous in everything he does and I would bet he spent a considerable amount of time arranging the treasure piece by piece and may even have done it more than once. It had to be perfect!! It had to have PIZZAZ …. Eye appeal. This is important as it puts the treasure in very close proximity to the parking spot. You may even be able to see the car from the spot. I say this only because I don’t believe he would have chanced having the vehicle broken into between trips, and chanced losing either the box or the treasure.

    2) If you don’t know where to start you may as well stay home and play Canasta. Let’s approach this from the SIMPLISTIC point of view…. I have a good Idea where the starting point is and will post my thoughts soon. I was hoping to get others involved in the SIMPLISTIC approach and get them thinking with the 12 year olds. I believe most people trying to figure out where to start have gone to Google earth ….. Google ….. maps …. Charts …. Fens books …. the poem ….. it’s much easier than that. Hope to hear some thoughts and ideas soon.

    • Welcome, The Analyst!
      I like your line of thinking.
      It’s true, F could have kept the car in sight while he made his first trip with the chest, then the treasure. If the trail gradually inclined, he can still see the car. When he leaves the trail for his “spot”, his elevation allows him to see the car. Don’t everyone scream, “He said don’t go where a 79-80yr old man can’t go!”…I KNOW! I inserted the word “gradual” for a reason. A lot of trails that gain altitude have gentle switch backs. THEN, he left the trail. The 200′ searcher club member could have tromped off trail too soon or too late, causing the “missed treasure”. Regardless, on a trail or hiking from above to a lower elevation toward a river/creek/Lake that you navigate, it’s possible to park car near edge to watch it. If someone DID break in, don’t know how you could stop it being away from it.
      My point is, criminals very seldom go out in nature. They are opportunists. More loot in the city. Now, I’ve parked near a Rez and have seen Rez teens eyeballing my car as I took photographs, because they are bored and trouble sometimes follows them. I was told to always lock my car in/near there, by a Rez pd officer! But, it can happen anywhere. So…WHY did F suggest one look/get treasure while one waits in the car, YET says go in pairs, never alone?
      I’m stumped by this advice and I KNOW there is a hint in there about your final location.
      It does keep me up at night…it’s 2:05 am CST.
      Be safe, be smart, be wise!
      ¥Peace ¥

      • John … I was searching in Yellowstone but have since regrouped and no longer believe Forrest would have traveled that far to hide his treasure. Currently focused on areas much closer to Santa Fe.

      • John, I’m sorry … you asked Where in Yellowstone I was searching. I was searching the otter creek area … very close to Canyon village. Not far but too far to walk .lol.

    • The analyst ~ you quoted ~ He has said that ”my treasure could be could be retrieved in just about any kind of weather “
      The quote I’m familiar with says;
      *If you know precisely where it is you can probably retrieve it in any weather. MW’s Dec. 11th 2015
      Do you have a link for your quote?

      You also said ~ Forrest has said many many times that a child could find my treasure.
      Do you have any links for those many comments as well?

      In a video he said kids might have an advantage… Mobey Dickens, I believe.
      a Q&A he corrected some miss information told by a searcher; ” …Bloggers have quoted me as saying that a child could walk up to the treasure. I don’t think that’s an accurate quote because a three year old girl would have a problem without some help. Remember, I was about 80 when I hid the chest, and had to make two trips.f ”

      Do you have other references on the topic of ~ a child could find my treasure.?

      • Seeker …… Let me start with an apology to both you and the forum. You are exactly correct as to the quote in regards to being able to retrieve the treasure in any weather . I saw it on weekly words with Forrest Fenn on Mysterious writings web site. In regards to the comments regarding ” A child could find my treasure ” I would have seen that in one the many videos and although I’m nearly sure he did say a child could find my treasure I will give way to you on that one as well as I didn’t archive any of those videos. I promise in the future if I can’t post a link I will preface my comment with ” I believe or In my opinion ”

        One of the biggest advantages to communicating with guys on this forum is that most of you are walking encyclopedias with Eidetic memories. I mean that in a very friendly way of course. I also find that although everyone wants the honor of cracking this code you really do root for one another. I personally can’t wait to hear what the actual correct solve is. But would hope that if I don’t find it …. I would get the chance to congratulate the one who did.

        • Analyst,
          I’m not downing your memory… What happens too often is a paraphrased quote, or opinion, stated by a blogger gets intertwined with what fenn has actually stated, and more than once that bloggers comment starts running a muck at later dates as being factual.
          One example is how reporters use words like buried or house of Brown… bloggers sometime use there own impression [like some of the reporting of the media] of a fenn comment, place it in quotes, and it landslide from there.

          Again, not downing your impression of what you recall… it’s just helps to keep things as accurate as possible. Heck, if Loco never took a trip to NZ… we would still be talking about WhatIF the first clue is…

          • Seeker …. I completely understand, and agree that information provided to all should be based on factual information whether it be an interview a quote or a video. I have started to archive anything I may find so that I can recall and post quickly and easily. Something I wasn’t doing when it was just me. Like that interview …. I Thought I had sent it to my favorites but obviously did not, so now I get to spend countless hours looking for it.

          • Just a suggest;
            Chasing Words of Forrest Fenn – by JCM

            JCM has worked long and hard compiling this with accuracy.. and adds to it as the chase progresses. It an inexpensive tool [imo] to use and catch up on the quotes and comments, and may save you a lot of time.

            Just a thought… there’s 7 years of info floating around out in the deep web, and not all of it is reliable.

  41. When I was young my friends and I would play at the creek and we had a nice fort in the canes I could still ask them today about the cane fort and they could go right to it.I would like to ask Mr.Fenn if his brother Skippy was still here and his friends who went with him when he was young if they could use the poem and go right to the chest I think they could I think they traveled the same trails with him and they had that special code .

  42. The poem reads like a eulogy.as I have gone alone in there .he going to his grave alone.with my treasures bold he’s taking it with him. He’s always saying why can’t he take it with him. Begin it when warm waters halt tears in the eyes of fenns friends as he his being taken to the canyon down not far but to far to walk.Put beneath the home of brown.either fenn is really taking it with him .or he daring you to grave rob him .if you are brave and in the wood I give you title to the gold. Just a thought

    • The poem reads like a eulogy.as I have gone alone in there .he going to his grave alone.with my treasures bold he’s taking it with him. He’s always saying why can’t he take it with him. Begin it when warm waters halt tears in the eyes of fenns friends as he his being taken to the canyon down not far but to far to walk.Put beneath the home of brown.either fenn is really taking it with him .or he daring you to grave rob him .if you are brave and in the wood I give you title to the gold. Just a thought maybe it doesn’t start until fenn dies.

  43. For those with the belief that it IS buried—-
    Do we really believe he would bury it directly in the dirt only to eventually be caked and filled with dirt and mud? I don’t believe so. However, what if he encased it inside another container which he then buried? It is definitely hidden. And technically it isn’t buried, only hidden. It’s only hidden inside something else which is buried. And with that, no one will ever stumble across or simply happen upon it.
    Just food for thought.
    Good luck all.

    • Nobody is going to happen upon it because it’s not near a human trail.

      One has to know exactly where its at (of the human trail) to find it.

      • More than once he has referenced ‘exactly.’ I’m under the belief that that is pointing at an exact coordinate. Find the coordinate and you can go directly to the spot. If it’s buried under snow and you know it’s somewhere near a particular trail, how could you then go and retrieve it with all confidence if you only have ‘somewhere near a human trail’ as your reference? In fact, how can you retrieve it from any spot with any confidence even in the middle of summer with no snow if your reference is near a particular trail?
        I believe he has hinted at ‘exact’ for this exact reason. We need to find the exact coordinate. He doesn’t recommend that we search in the winter but “If you know precisely where it is you can probably retrieve it in any weather.”
        I would venture to say that isn’t possible without knowing an exact coordinate.
        All IMO.
        Good luck all.

        • KevinP & DG – IMO the poem takes us to a very precise spot. You won’t be searching just going to the spot and packing up the beautiful chest to take home.

  44. Are you a Fenn-atic?

    If you ever spent at least one holiday weekend slogging through mud and mosquitoes in a place that doesn’t even have a Zip code you might be a Fenn-atic.

    If you spent more money this year on camping gear and bear repellent than groceries you might be a Fenn-atic.

    If you don’t know your wife’s birthday but can name 3 or more of Fenn’s former pets you might be a Fenn-atic.

    If you ever circled Santa Fe five or more times to find a place to park just so you could buy a book you might be a Fenn-atic.

    If you ever sat alone in the dirt in the middle of nowhere and screamed: “you’re poem is kicking my a@@ Mr Fenn!” you might me a Fenn-atic.


  45. I know many of you are searching areas such as Yellowstone. I had that area in my very first solve as well but it turned out to be a bust. I had spent very little time on the poem at that time and took everything for face value. After I returned, I decided to take real hard look at the poem and do a lot more reading and catching as many videos as I could find. With the accumulation of comments coming from Forrest it became very obvious that nothing was as it seems.

    I believe he said ( no quotation marks ) If you don’t know where to start you may as well stay home and play canasta. Face value WWWH is a geographical location ….. but is it a one of ……. there are just too many geographical locations that could be construed as a match. Once again things are not as they seem. So could this be a clue as to where to start …. probably not. This is my opinion of course.

    SEEKER ……I need your help. I was reading a very lengthy article last night (late) and I thought I had saved it to my favorites … but did not …. and I can not find that thing anywhere. In the article Fenn talked abut meeting with searchers and that he preferred to meet them at the book store and that his wife wasn’t comfortable having strangers in the home. He talked about having had to call the police on people who either threatened him or just wouldn’t leave.

    The huge bulk of the interview was done with ( Kaya ?) the women who moved from Hawaii present at Fenns home during the interview. Some where in the article she said she had said she sold all her stuff in Hawaii and to date had spent around $15000 dollars for lodging, meals, gas, looking for the treasure. She had a search partner who had obsessed about the spillway at the bottom of Eagles nest Lake. I’m giving you this info in hopes you or someone else can give me a link. I believe Fenn made a comment which could be perceive as a clue, but I’m hesitant to say until I get my hands in that article again. I’m going t continue to look for it and if I find it … I will post it right away.

    • There have been a few article about her and the chase. Some she even wrote about. Which one you’re talking about…I’m not sure… but I do recall a lot of what you said about it.
      Sometimes, for articles hard to find, what I do is; I type the wording I recall as best I can into Google search – followed by “Forrest Fenn.” this helps find those articles, videos, audios, even SB’s and Q&A’s etc. with those words involved…That might help limit your time scrolling through the web pages and blogs. Just try and use the words you know were from the comments and not so much improvising with your own.

      Maybe someone else can recall what your looking for better than I can… having a brain-fog today.

  46. I want to give an update on the postmarks in TTOTC. One person who did a lot of research on the postmarks was ZAP, so ZAP might be interested in this.

    Lately I have been going through TTOTC on a hint hunt to verify some clues, and while doing it I double checked all the postmarks. The main thing I discovered that is wrong with his research is the following:

    The postage stamp on Page 51 (the only stamp on an ODD page, and also the only duplicate stamp) was thought to be the only stamp on the RIGHT side of the page. This is completely wrong, there are MANY postage stamps on the RIGHT and LEFT.

    This brings up a warning. Be careful with TTOTC due to revisions. The version I have is “Fifth Printing”. My postage stamps are:

    RIGHT SIDE Pages: 16, 34, 36, 42, 46, 51, 54, 58, 108, 114, 120, 126, and 140
    LEFT SIDE Pages: 22, 28, 44, 64, 68, 72, and 118

    Result: Basically page 51 is NOT the only stamp on the right, clearly changes were made to the book during different printings.

    • That’s amazing. I have 2 books, one is a 3rd printing, the other is the 8th printing and they are exactly the same with 1 postmark that is on the right side which is page 51.
      The pages you listed as being on the right are all left hand pages so how is that possible?

  47. Guys, I did find the article ( The everlasting Forrest Fenn – The California Sun ) and in hind sight I am glad I did not post my thoughts as I did find the words I was looking for but they certainly weren’t pertaining to any thought process I might have had ….. this is one reason not to do late night research as things are difficult enough as it is. In any case I have previously said that I don’t believe that the majority of clues refer to geographical locations but do require interpretation and can not be taken at face value. The first clue from Forrest which kind of supports this theory is the fact that Forrest has said that you need only my Poem to find my treasure. So Maps, Charts and Google earth are not a requirement to solving the puzzle JUST interpretation.

    I’m going to give you an interpretation of what I believe to be the first clue , with the only intent of getting people thinking in the same abstract way the poem was written. So what might one interpretation of “Begin It Where Warm Waters Halt” be. Lets start with “Begin It” …. Begin what ???? …..your journey ……. your quest …… your chase …..your adventure. how about your DAY …..how do you BEGIN your DAY. Day one of your search ….. How would you normally begin your day ….. I always begin mine with a cup of coffee ….. this didn’t fit the clue so I posed this question to some friends kids 5 – 12 years old and initially I got mostly blank stares …. until the 5 year old said …. I have to start my day with a shower because my mommy said little girls have to be clean and I need to shower everyday. WOW could this really be that straight forward ????
    Warm Waters Halt when the shower ends. Begin It Where Warm Waters Halt.

    SO … am I crazy ….. is it too simple and off the beaten track …. maybe but seeing how no one has cracked this thing using conventional thinking,
    I would think that we should start to think outside the box a little more than we do. I have a similar solve for what i believe to be the second clue but was hoping to get everyone outside the box with me even if for only a little bit. If you like the out of the box thinking give me some ideas as to how you think the second clue may or may not fit.

    • Ah oh! ~analyze lol, you used the four letter word ”abstract”…

      I think you stated you’re relatively new to the chase. so… maybe this will help.

      Dear Mz. Mary,
      The solve is difficult for many searchers because their minds think the clues are tougher to decrypt than they really are.
      Some say they are trying to think outside the box, as if the solution lies somewhere out there.
      Until now I have resisted telling them to get back in the box where their thoughts are comfortable and flow more easily.
      The blueprint is challenging so the treasure may be located by the one who can best adjust. To illustrate my point go to YouTube – Smarter Every Day. f

      By the way TimZ would probable enjoy your wwh thought.
      I’m not saying it’s right or wrong… But where is this shower taking place, If the poem has all the information to find the chest… how do we locate the one shower?

      • Great point here seeker! Forrest has also said it”s where all the lines cross! Your solve should have you putting points and lines on a map to find the cross.he wants you to listen, look, and think! Searchers should be looking at definitions of words combining locations to those clues to see the big picture! The clues are points on a map. I haven’t seen many solves with lines crossing or even points mapped. The big picture should also make sense of all the things forrest has said in hints and weekly words. Full circle! It doesn’t pay to stretch a tangent! IMO

      • LOL …. OK …. I knew this would be taken with a grain of salt but what I meant by out of the box was any approach that didn’t involve maps or google earth. I took Forrest for his word when he said all you needed was the poem. I don’t think Forrest built any kind of directions into the poem as much as he started us on a journey with the poem. He is so passionate when he speaks about the spot and the chase at places like Moby Dickens. Seeker asked

        “But where is this shower taking place, If the poem has all the information to find the chest… how do we locate the one shower?

        The shower as it pertains to any starting point or place is irrelevant. WWWH was intentionally meant to misdirect the searchers. I would guess that 90% of those searching for the treasure are using geographical locations in their solve. Going back to keeping these interpretations as simple as can be ….. When you lose or can’t find something …… you generally always go back to the last place the lost item was seen to start your search.

        In My Opinion ……..This puts your starting point as Santa Fe NM.

        “Take It In The Canyon down”

        Anyone who has ever heard poetry in a theatrical setting knows that you can emphasize any word or group of words and that not every word will relate to the poem at all. So if you were to place very heavy emphasis on TAKE IT with a very slight pause …. trailing off …… in the Canyon down.

        There is a high end company called Canyon Bath that specializes in baths but offers one 42 X 42 ” shower basin. Get where I’m going with this.

    • I can’t shower without first having coffee. I’ve tried it and only half the body gets cleaned or it’s washed but not rinsed.

      My solve is based on the premise that warm waters halt at a Starbucks. Or possibly a McDonalds. So I’ve mapped every Starbucks and McDonalds at least 8.25 mi north of Santa Fe between 5k and 10.2k ft elevation.

      I enjoy contemplating all the pretty dots while sipping my latte. But I’m no closer to finding the TC.

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