Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Thirty Three


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578 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Thirty Three

  1. Hi WyMustIGo: very interesting if the 5th printing’s layout is so substantially different from the others. Can anyone else confirm this? I have the 4th printing, and it sounds like at least the stamp pages are the same as in the 3rd and the 8th printing.

    In any case, it doesn’t matter to my solution what pages the stamps appear on. What matters is that one of them was duplicated, and I found what I believe is a hint on it. (I think there are other hints in the stamps as a collective, which again is page independent.)

    • There is no need to confirm anything, I am telling you exactly the way it is in the Fifth Printing. I have no reason to lie about it, why not ask Forrest why the postmarks moved?

      The version of TTOTC I have is “Fifth Printing”. My postage stamps are:

      RIGHT SIDE Pages: 16, 34, 36, 42, 46, 51, 54, 58, 108, 114, 120, 126, and 140
      LEFT SIDE Pages: 22, 28, 44, 64, 68, 72, and 118

      Result: Basically page 51 is NOT the only stamp on the right, clearly changes were made to the book during different printings.

      Also, they are not in different fonts.

      • Oh, man. I left my 4th ed. TTOTC in a hotel room during my BOTG on the last night. 🙁 I just got a new one, 5th ed., in the mail.

      • Why must I go and explain, the statistical oddity and wierd probability, almost lottery like obscurity of the page 51 postmark is not whether the page/postmark is on the right or left side of the book, it is the fact that statistically that page, 51 is the only one postmarked that is anodd # all the rest are even #’s look at the post you laid out above, only one (page) out of 20 postmarks, million to one that is not accident.


    • Zap just look at what I said below, and oh yes when I first discovered this it was on the 1st edition printing, I mentioned that 90 is the result of the circled 141 minus the 51 page #, in 2012.

    • it occoured to me tha mr fenn will become a mystery like the great pyrmids un solved for generations to come will they be talking about this 1000 years from now if so what will they be saying i can follow a river but following the stone is much harder good luck all and a good night to boot.

  2. Just a note about resources..
    I like these..

    JCM from this blog has put together a marvelous resource called Chasing Words. If you want to know exactly what Forrest said and where he said it…this reference is priceless..ok…well actually it does cost money but updates are free and JCM has updated it this year.

    The folks over at Tarry Scant have also created a searchable reference of Forrest’s quotes…on line. I use both this and Chasing Words constantly when I am trying to remember exactly what Forrest said about something.. I find that when one doesn’t have what I’m looking for, the other one usually does.

    Additionally, when I just want to browse through various news stories, videos, magazine articles and radio interviews with Forrest I head over to the Media Coverage library on this blog…a wealth of material there…

    Be an informed searcher…

  3. Posting this again because we cant comment on the old one.

    BTW, this is a fact, I am not BSing here.

    I want to give an update on the postmarks in TTOTC. One person who did a lot of research on the postmarks was ZAP, so ZAP might be interested in this.

    Lately I have been going through TTOTC on a hint hunt to verify some clues, and while doing it I double checked all the postmarks. The main thing I discovered that is wrong with his research is the following:

    The postage stamp on Page 51 (the only stamp on an ODD page, and also the only duplicate stamp) was thought to be the only stamp on the RIGHT side of the page. This is completely wrong, there are MANY postage stamps on the RIGHT and LEFT.

    This brings up a warning. Be careful with TTOTC due to revisions. The version I have is “Fifth Printing”. My postage stamps are:

    RIGHT SIDE Pages: 16, 34, 36, 42, 46, 51, 54, 58, 108, 114, 120, 126, and 140
    LEFT SIDE Pages: 22, 28, 44, 64, 68, 72, and 118

    Result: Basically page 51 is NOT the only stamp on the right, clearly changes were made to the book during different printings.

  4. Note that the difference in the postage stamps makes me wonder what else changed.

      • I think I know what the problem is. ZAP should never have used the word PAGE. When he said its the only stamp on the RIGHT side of the page, it is wrong. MANY stamps are on the right side of the page.

        When you open page 50 and 51, obviously page 51 is on the right side of THE BOOK, 50 is on the left.

        So the only thing special about page 51 postmark is that its on an ODD page. All ODD pages are on the right, so why even mention it since saying 51 is the only ODD page with a stamp pretty much tells you everything you need to know.

        I mean come on now, why say left or right “of the page” when all even pages are on the left?

        So all revisions are the same, just disregard this left and right stuff because all you need to say is that 51 is the only ODD page with a stamp, it doesn’t take a brainsurgeon to know the odd page is on the right side of the book. hehe

  5. I want to make something clear that might remove confusion.

    In TTOTC obviously ALL even numbered pages are on the left, all odd pages are on the right. The post I read regarding the postage stamps talks about which side of “the page” the stamp is on, not which side of the book! For example: page 16 is even, the stamp is on the RIGHT side of the page.

    When you open a book, you are looking at two pages, not one.

    The duplicate stamp on page 51 is the same as the one on page 126. On BOTH pages, the stamp is positioned on the RIGHT side of the page. The only reason why it is on the right side of the book too is because it is on an odd page number.

    To avoid confusion it might be a good idea to refer to the side of the book and not the side of the page. Or are some people not aware that an open book has two pages and not one? LOL

    • Fascinating how many layers there are to the puzzle. I always thought something might be special with that date on page 51. Mostly because its my birthday though. 🙂

      • So my 7th edition of TTOTC clearly indicates Friday, 5 June as the day, but the year of the postmark is totally obscured and impossible for my 68 year old eyes to read/discern.

        Do others share in this printing “error”? If not, then what is the indicated year on the post,ark in question?


  6. WyMustIGo, and Zap, everything is cool, just a misstatement on odd vs even and right and left, that is why we need to remember, not every statement is a hint or potentially important unless it contains an element of the “Joker”, Beginning statement by ff; life’s a game of poker, it deals you 4 cards and a joker statement, on page 5 of Thrill Book, why is it that fenn must go? Look closely at page 9 as in Important Literature, and tell me if you get the element of joker in this chapter and what is your take away? The joke, method/message of that hint is IMO the “Border Line Biddies”. Itty bitty little lines at 32 degrees, my first WWWH. I think on another layer there is a second WWWH. same idea, different location. What was the weather like at Borders? Hints are Sprinkled, but confirm this joke what is the war in ‘For Whom The Bell Tolls” was ff, the joker at play.


    • Tom, Do you mean “Farewell to Arms”? Forrest mentions “For whom the bell tolls” but then he talks about the wrong plot for that book, he instead gives the plot of “Farewell to Arms”.

      How do you think that factors in?

      • WhyMustIgo, some of this is a paraphrase of the actual quotations from F; “I think kids may have an advantage, don’t ask me to explain that, but sure. It’s not what they say ono the on the blogs that may be significant, it’s what they WHISPER. The book is sprinkled with hints which can help with understanding the clues”

        The point is F has signaled that perhaps there is a Simon Says game at play in the hints and perhaps the clues as well. So if you see no element of the joker, which IMO is his signal that something is a hint. In Too Far Book he said Hamilton, on the $100 bill was shot in the head, chapter 45 (half of 90) well neither statement was true, Ben Franklin is on the $100 note, and it cost $10, a Hamilton to shoot at the prize, 100 minus 10 is 90, and to add intrigue Hamilton was shot in a duel in the side, not the head? What are the hints’? Jackie Kennedy was very fond of Erich Sloans work, now who was shot in the head.?… Does this Ring a Bell, or must ya be toll.

        Some parts of this solve are in “Winter Thoughts” which, if you type either Tom Terrific or winter thoughts on the search line and view.

        Tom Terrific, as in enthusiastic to save the Rockies.

        • Tom –

          Hamilton was also on the 1918 1000 dollar bill.
          It is not sensible, without further evidence, to assume Fenn is referencing the 10 or the 1000.



          • Lug, do you have the Too Far Book?
            Chapter 45 is distinct in what ff states, admittedly as the joker.

  7. I believe that Forrest has slowly shaken his head from side to side on more than one occasion when seeing folks spend so much time dissecting “the book” for what could only be very intentionally placed clues. The man said that the book contains HINTS that were NOT INTENTIONALLY placed to aide the searcher, but could help in interpreting the clues which exist in the poem. The more I read about the postage stamps and the map on page 99 the more I think that the treasure won’t be found for 1000 years! Forrest had a team of people helping him with the layout of the memoir. He was not secretly planting clues in there. The hints are in the stories because they describe Forrest’s life and his personality from which the poem was born.

    • DWRock – I think you make a good point. In one of Dal’s videos about how the books were made, he talks about the role the designers played. “Like with The Thrill of the Chase, Susan put the little postmarks in there and the little corners on the photographs. I mean, it’s kind of a home grown scrapbook. And this new book of mine, it’s going to be that way.”

      I personally don’t view the postmarks as hints; however, I take a very straightforward approach to solving the treasure hunt and perhaps that’s why I am still empty handed.

      • Cris –

        I do not think the postmarks bare any clues either.
        It is fascinating to watch chasers spin up the machine to talk about stamps in various printings.

        I would love here someone explain how the differences between the 4th and 5th printing as relates tot he stamps informs us on the location of warm waters or the tc.

        Of course, they won’t tell me.

        If the difference in printings or the stamps are clues I will be shocked. I mean what is Fenn going to say? Diggin’ Gypsy was within 200 feet, maybe closer, but she never figured out why I put the incorrect dates on the stamps and then moved one of them between printings 4 and 5!!!


        • Lug, there were no differences in these various printings of TTOTC it was a mis conception of the difference between perspective of left and right vs odd and even. However ff was the director/author and placed those 20 postmarks exactly for a reason, if you understand statistical analysis the chances of page 51 being postmarked with 141 is an oddity in the range of at least a million or more to one, you might remember that 90 has been mentioned several time, just like 22, I don’t make this stuff up, ff does.


          • Oh Tom, of course there are no differences between the printings.

            Let’s find out if you are actually willing to discuss this now.

            I am looking at my page 51. June FRIDAY stamp. Appears to encircle the first five letters of their address. 1413 North Main. (Temple TX)

            141 – 51 is 90
            Fenn has mentioned the number 90, what twice? (More?)

            Ok now what? What does that tell you?
            And then how does that lead you to an actual place on the map or in the geography?

            Can I mention that everything on the map is 90 miles away from something?


          • Lug,

            Just curious and not meaning to nit-pick, but I assume when you said the first 5 letters are within the circle of the stamp’s border, that you mean the four numbers 1413 and N.

            What I’m curious about is why you decided to only use 141 in your calculation because I would think most folks would have used 1413, at least I would have if going down that road? Or does the 141 represent something else?

            To add a little fuel to the page 51 postmark controversy, if my assumption that 1413 N are within your postmark is correct, then can someone please explain why only 141 is within the postmark in my 7th printing copy? Why would the postmark position change at all unless some sort of mistake was discovered along the way of the other 6 editions and f wanted to correct it?

            Dal, if I sent you a photo of the 7th printing postmark could you post it here? Perhaps Lug could do the same so you could add it to his post for comparison.


          • That was an error in typing but i cannot edit once posted here.

            141 appears in the circle 9f the stamp
            Sorry about that.


          • ******TomT wrote – “. . . the chances of page 51 being postmarked with 141 is an oddity in the range of at least a million or more to one . . . .”******

            If you include “000” there are only 1,000 different three-digit numbers that could appear on page 51.

            And the chances of the other postmarks’ numbers being on whatever other pages in the book are the same – equally incredible, or equally mundane.

            What are the chances that there would be 97 letter “e”s on page 97?

            And to echo Lug’s good question, even if (improbably) intentional, what useful information can you possibly derive from it?


          • Hi VolcanicCharlie – I think Lugnutz may be mistaken about the stamp encircling the first five characters of the address (i.e. 1413 N). I would be very surprised if the positioning of the stamps varied from printing to printing. At least in my copy (and I assume everyone else’s) only “141” is within the circle.

            Minor coincidence:
            1413 North Main
            14 13 N M

            N is the 14th letter, M the 13th. But it’s not like Forrest had any say in his childhood address. 😉

          • Yeah Zap,

            That’s why I brought it up. Just didn’t make any sense to me either, so hopefully it was a typo. We all make them.

            And the numerology of the address is like super coincidental, but just that, coincidental.

            Take care……… pinatubocharlie

          • Zap, and pinatubo, the lay out of these postmarks and what is circled inside is all under Forrest’s control, even the page # and the fact of the photo of his brother and father at Skippy’so graduation ceremony, statistical probability is impossible that this was all expressed and is accidental occurrence or coincidence. My minor was in Actuarial Science from Northwest Missouri State University and any staticician can see that the odds of producing 20 # randomly with only one on an odd # page is astronomical.

            What else is on that page? HINT (degree) a diploma in hand of a brother who drowned in 90 ft of water? Like I said if it looks like a hint probably is.

            The north pole is 90 degrees, border of Texas and NM and Old Mexico @ 32 degrees lat, first Ww1 out of “For whom the Bell tolls”, borderline bittys from Borders Books while it was sprinkling?

            Olga’s ashes did fly 90 or so miles and Hamilton was shot in the head on the $100 not Franklin? $10 to shoot at $100 is still 90 chapter 45 TFTW. Why 90, that’s how far to the next Border, at Colorado. Why 37 degrees? 5.00, Do the math and your Spanish homework and it makes sense.


          • Tom Terrific –

            You didnt reapond to me, lets try again.

            Forrest mentions the number 90 in after the fact comments, right? Or to be specific he says 90 once and 92 once.

            So then because he mentioned 90 and 141 minus 51 is 90 there is a hint there. What is the hint? Are you saying the hint means travel 90 miles in the solve?

            Also Skippy is not holding anything. I suppose he does hold a general degree as you call it.

            What does this point to in the poem?
            Where does this direct you in the geography.

            I maintain unless you can explain that these are coincidence. We have the term coincidence for this reason. To give name to the phenomenon you describe.


          • Hi Lug: no worries! Since you indicated that you didn’t believe there were layout differences between printings, I was pretty sure your page 51 stamp only circled 141.

          • Zap –

            I didnt see you answer as to whether you have watched Inferno. Here is the quote from scene

            Ancient fisherman learned to sail where the warm water met the cold. The small fish would stop at the edge of the warm waters and the big fish would come out of the cold water and eat them

            Just before this he mentions borders, doorways.

            If you watch this all happens about an hour thirty in.


          • Hi Lugnutz — I haven’t seen the movie Inferno nor read the book (though I have seen the other Dan Brown adaptations). Since the movie came out last year, I don’t see how it could have relevance to solving Fenn’s poem — unless you believe Dan Brown is deliberately paying a little homage to Fenn. (Wouldn’t be the first time — he did the same with Kryptos.)

          • Zap –

            There are just a striking number of bells that ring in the head of the Chaser watching that scene.

            I dont know if the lines are from the book. I dont know if there is an ancient tale the idea was pulled from.


        • Lugnutz – in my opinion, the stamps are deliberately erroneous (100% wrong days of the week when the year is legible) and the only one on an odd page deliberately duplicated. These aberrations (like the others in his books) are just Forrest’s way of saying “you might want to pay attention here.” Personally, I think the “hints” associated with the postmark stamps are not particularly important. More like harmless Easter eggs, or an inside joke. Figuring them out will not lead you to the chest, so I wouldn’t worry too much about them.

          • Zap –

            I will take under advisement your suggestion that the stamp aberrations may serve the same function as a blaze.

            This stamp is repeated here and this page should be looked at.

            Got it.

            Have you sent he movie Inferno yet?
            I am really looking forward to your opinion of the warm waters scene.


          • Agree with you Zap. f does that quite a bit. Example, remember when this came out?
            ” I am reading that several people have been lost while looking for your treasure. On Monday we will go on our first search and we are a little apprehensive. Since you are the only one who knows where it is hidden can you give me some advice that will help keep us safe? ~ Mrs SRM and son.
            Yes Mrs. M, your email is timely, and because you are new to the search I will reiterate what has been said many times on blogs and in the media. If you plan to search in a National Forest or a National Park you should ask a ranger to brief you on your particular area. They can advise you much better than I can……………………. Caution and common sense are your best weapons in the mountains. Hope this helps Mrs. M, but you should also do your own research. f
            Mrs in reverse, or, mrs srm.
            He then calls her Mrs M. Lol, he can’t even tell us to be safe in the mountains without putting a little twist on it.
            The thing is, is it important ? Maybe not in finding the chest, but maybe seeing a little thru his eyes. If you have a solve that possibly answers to your satisfaction these things, then maybe they are put in to help give confidence. Like what JAKe said about the 97 e’s on page 97. Means nothing, unless someone has 97 meaning something. Like a marvel gaze or something. Then it could be a confirming thing. A confidence booster.
            Sooner or later, when you look at all your coincidences, it will come to a point when it’s just too much. Maybe all those coincidences are not coincidences but put there by “design”.

  8. Dal , What will I do when I find the chest. Can’t imagine he wants the spot going public , after all it may still be his choice of resting place in eternity. Also these are my first two post and I really enjoy following along to all the witty dialogue between all of you. Also enjoy all the good info and advise. Thank you all. Two weeks into all of this and I am loving it. Good luck everyone.

    • Omar,
      I’m not following your thought… ‘Can’t imagine he wants the spot going public , after all it may still be his choice of resting place in eternity.’

      That’s the whole point to the challenge, to find that spot. Like fenn said, in so many words, when the chest is found he will notify media and Dal of it’s retrieval. He also said, in so many words, he has no control of the finder telling all… it’s out of his hands.

    • can ya give us a rough sorta time-frame there, Randawg?

      ..jus so i can warn Forrest when to hide all his acorns, ’tis all

  9. I have an easy way to Find Forrest Fenns Treasure but I am still waiting for approval by tyblossom to post my own blog.
    Let us see what happens.

    • Pegasus…What does Stephanie have to do with what you do? Just curious….what that has to do with posting here…or anywhere for that matter.

    • ken – maybe he means Stefanie Powers from Hart to Hart??

      David – can ya possibly get me her autograph? ..i’m such a massive fan-oh wait?! ..is this still a public forum..??

      ( ..ummm… it’s actually for my Mum – no, honestly!!)

    • It doesn’t take Columbo to figure this one out. The ‘friends’ were all under the influence of drugs and alcohol and were afraid to call the police.
      Also while I believe Ashby knew about Fenn’s treasure and may have even searched for it, he was not searching the day of the accident.
      Furthermore, if he Was searching I don’t think he was in a viable area. Florence Colorado’s elevation is 5180ft and Lake Pueblo just east of there (where they were headed?) is 4846ft.


    • Seems to be easier to blame someone else, rather than having the responsibilities held by those who made the decisions they made.

      • I say quit blaming anyone for anything, including the unfortunate searchers who have perished from being foolish and inexperienced. Which of us hasn’t been inexperienced and foolish at some point in our lives? ..And for those who think they are so wise, seasoned, and well-informed about safety that they could never succumb from an error in the wilderness, think again. Mother Nature always has a potential trick up her sleeve, .and even when you see that curve ball coming, it doesn’t mean you won’t strike out. The Chase can be very dangerous, period: this is life on any given day, for any of us, regardless. And the Chase will go on: Mr. Fenn will not change his mind, mark my words. (IMO with a smiley face)

        • “The Chase can be very dangerous, period: this is life on any given day, for any of us, regardless.”

          No, that’s like saying that anything that can go wrong will. Life is not particularly dangerous and neither is the Chase. I think people should stop comparing the Chase to an extreme sport where danger is just a part of it that we need to accept. It invites people to justify their decisions as, “I’m up for the challenge!” Surviving nature is not the challenge that Forrest Fenn put out there.

          • Saying that “Life ‘can’ be dangerous” does not contradict “Life is not particularly dangerous”. Saying that the Chase “can” be dangerous is not the same as saying that the Chase “is ” dangerous. Would you disagree too if I said that skiing “can” be dangerous?

            I say publish safety guidelines for the Chase and of course emphasize safety. But this won’t stop the fatalities. In this modern world, people don’t read carefully anymore: do even you bother to read the entire contents of the myriad instruction manuals which come with modern life?

            The Chase is marvelous. It does not need to be defended, certainly not with the stream of blame comments on the blogs about how stupid the searchers were who perished. But being marvelous does not mean it can’t have a flaw. And that flaw is that people will continue to perish no matter what Mr. Fenn or anyone else publishes as guidelines for safety.

          • I don’t think we’re too far off from each other in what we’re saying. I’m sure we can agree that there’s many degrees of skiing (to use your example) and that the bunny slopes are relatively harmless. My point is that we should take care to characterize and frame the Chase as a bunny-slope type activity, which isn’t really considered dangerous at all. Skiing can be dangerous but the type of skiing equivalent to the Chase is no slope they should be thinking about.

          • * ugh, typo. I mean to say that the type of slope equivalent to the Chase is a bunny slope. Not dangerous. You get the idea.

          • If. Mr. Fenn wants to confirm that the Chase is indeed a bunny slope kind of vemture, then I’m all ears. Bu I don’t think he ‘s lived a bunny slope kind of life, do you? And he is never unequivocal about what it is that an 80 year old man can actually accomplish, so why not just say, straightforwardly, that there is no water to cross and that he only hiked 1.5 miles total? “Less than a few miles” he qualified by saying that “few” means “scant”. And one of the definitions of scant is “barely sufficient”. What does that actually mean? If you Google “physical feats of octogenarians” you’ll see what some 80 year olds have done. Imo, the Chase is not vanilla, and it will be difficult, but not impossible, to retrieve the chest.

          • ugh, typos, should read “bunny slope kind of venture” and “But I don’t think”

          • Stephan, in an video you can find on the “Media Coverage” page, there is a discussion about finding the treasure chest. Mr. Fenn had stated the following: ‘I think kids have an advantage. Don’t ask me to explain that.’ Perhaps this might be something to consider.

    • There’s so many discrepancies in this story that even family members say they’re confused by all the conflicting things that have been said, and they’re the closest to the story. I think maybe people should probably find out what actually happened before they start tossing around ideas of who should have “ownership” of what happened. There’s at least three different stories out there of how he even ended up in the water.

  10. I just sent my first email to Forrest and he responded back almost immediately. What a guy!
    Long live Forrest!
    Long live the Chase!

    No he did not give me any clues or hints. As I told him expressly not to. Not that he would’ve had I asked.

    I just told him don’t stop the Chase. It’s better than people live freely. Stay safe everyone and think of everything.

        • Haha, enjoy! It’ll be like that song stuck in your head all weekend. You won’t be able to shake it 🙂

    • Wow, I’ve emailed him a few times and no response. I guess he didn’t find what I had to say interesting!

      • Wow, BirdieB.

        I’ve emailed him a few times, too…but I never considered the lack of a response for that particular reason…until now. :/

        Maybe all my ex-wife were right about me…

        That does it. I’m changing my name to Ricardo and starting a vigorous diet and workout routine.

        • Oh Ricardo, no worries here hon, I’m not changing my spot. I’m very certain about that & no response from Mr. Fenn will change that. My question is this though, how many coincidences does it take before one realises it’s not coincidence anymore?

  11. Hi. I’m Cris. Long time lurker, first time poster. My friend Jeff and I run http://www.tarryscant.com. Recently, we exchanged emails with Dal to let him know about our site. We let Dal know that we have his site listed as a key resource for the treasure hunt. We asked him to check out our site and, if he liked it, if he would consider listing us as a resource on his site. Dal was kind enough to do just that. Thanks Dal! He asked that I put a little blurb about our website onto his blog so people can get a sense of what it’s for.

    Our site is pretty simple, and meant to be used in conjunction with Dal’s site (and others). We have been tracking down all the quotes we can find from Forrest Fenn, as well as transcribing all the video and audio we can find as well. We are putting these into an easy, searchable database for the searching community to use.

    We don’t track, capture, or otherwise monitor the words that are entered into our database because we respect your privacy. Every quote we find contains the link back to the original source. It’s important for us to be a credible resource to you, and equally important that Dal, Jenny, Gadi, Toby and the others receive proper credit for the work they have done.

    Why create this site? We did this because there is so much decentralized information for the treasure hunt. As I did my own research, I found myself keeping a word doc for links, an excel file for something else, etc. I thought it would be much simpler if I could keep it all in one place. Also, I like to do a little research at my desk at lunch. My office settings are not conducive to watching videos, so reading a transcription or a quote is much more conducive.

    We still have work to do. We have several videos queued up to transcribe still. We usually announce completion of very long transcripts on Facebook (“Tarry Scant”) and Twitter (@tarryscant). Please follow us if you’re on those platforms.

    Thank you again Dal for listing us as a resource on your site. We hope the rest of the community finds our work useful as well.

    If you have links to articles, videos, or audio files that we don’t have uploaded yet, you can send them to us via the form on our website, or email directly to admin@tarryscant.com

    Good luck to all. Make wise decisions when you are BOTG and be safe!


    TL-DR: free searchable database now at your disposal at http://www.tarryscant.com

    • If I may make a suggestion: It would be really great to have all the statements he’s made that are safety related pulled out into a single resource that could be shared. Some of these get understandably lost in interviews, etc. and it would be great to have a page of aggregate information to refer new searchers to.


      • This is a really great Idea. I will let you know how we can implement this. Thank you!

        • Thanks Jenny;

          I hope you will have a searchable data base – type in a word – or a few words – much like Tarry Scant’s site and your site will return any and ALL of the interviews/Forrest written posts that relate to that word or words.

          Thanks JDA

      • Thanks again for the great suggestion. We hope to have the safety page up mid-day tomorrow.

    • I love your site. It’s quick and easy to use. A huge time saver. The few searches that I made turned up a lot of material that I had never seen before, and I have spent a lot of time looking over the past two years. Nicely done.

      • Thank you for your kind words. We continue to expand the material for the searching community.

    • Yes excellent site! It will be of much use for any searcher keep up the good work!

    • Cris or Jeff,
      Is there an e-mail to contact either of you without having to be added to some list, which the admin. requires?

      Thanks in advance.

    • Thanks for the introduction, Cris! I checked out your site last week and found it helpful and well-put-together. I appreciate the work you and Jeff have put into it. Cheers!

    • Chris –

      I hope you read this and that saves me from emailing you.

      I did a simple search for the word Mexico. The earliest return on your site is 2013. I am looking for the quotes on New Mexico that come before 2013.


      • Hi lugnutz
        I think you & i are looking for the same piece if info but maybe not. I dont think its on a blog. I dont know how to find it. I had a little piece dont misplaced it in my notes & my mind. Lol

      • Lugnutz,

        Thanks for the reply. We haven’t found much in 2011 or 2012. Internet-based quotes pick up steam in 2013. The two items we have found in 2011 are Margie’s stories on the Huffington post. If we find anything, we’ll add it to our database. Good luck with the search!

        • i did some checking myself the earliest i can find Dal’s wonderful blog is 2011.
          there are other things like Mountain Walk and there is Chasechat. i am not sure what you are looking for. straight quotes from Mr. Fenn or extras? i have not found what i lost in my mind but i now know where to find it. thanks for sweeping the cobwebs from my mind. lol

          • Wildbirder – I think your question is directed more at Lugnutz, but it gives me an opportunity to say that Jeff and I (at this point anyway) have intentionally limited our database to straight quotes from FF only.

            Jake Faulker (who posts here) was kind enough to bring some missing quotes to our attention. Thanks Jake!

      • Lugnutz, have you tried searching the “Media Coverage” page? There appears to be links for the year 2012 that may have what you’re looking for.

        • pdenver –

          Same thing, Media Coverage goes back to 2013.

          Here is an example of an early account of hanging with Fenn, no quotes though.


          My recollection is that he never mentioned anything about any state other than New Mexico. Like he had never even considered that he could play with the idea that the treasure could reside anywhere else, like Yellowstone. IT wasn’t until Chasers started suggesting other states that Fenn began to mention them.

          But I don’t want to rely on my recollection, I want to read all the early accounts.


          • I’ve heard this from searchers for which you speak and I’m not sure where it’s to be found. There are some things on the “Media Coverage” that shows the year 2012. Have you checked those?

          • Hi Lugnutz – Over the years, people have tried to eliminate the area north of New Mexico based upon the idea that you are referring to. I am not going to try and definitively say the idea is right or wrong, but here are a few things I have found over time that helped paint a picture… at least for me in forming my opnion.

            One of the initial promos for the book was done by a lady on air at a radio station in Boulder, CO, which f specifically recruited /invited to help him get the word out about his book. I have seen the argument made that f only released his book at one little book store in Santa Fe, so that means f only intended this to be for the local people; but reality is that f’s initial plan included marketing the book in the Greater Denver, CO area and he fully intended to spread TTOTC beyond the boarders of New Mexico.

            f was very vague at the get go about where he hid his chest, his early comments were ‘somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe’; I have never seen anything where f specifically said he hid it in NM. It was mostly when reporters started saying the chest is hidden in New Mexico, north of Santa Fe, that f began saying that the mountains north of Santa Fe are the Rocky Mountains and that they run all the way up into Canada.

            I have never taken the time to go back and find a comment I read once that someone made (maybe someone might correctly recall it), I think it was at the Moby Dicken’s Book Store event. The flyer for the event said something to the effect that the chest was hidden in the mountains of Northern New Mexico. As I recall, the person wrote that when f arrived and read the flyer, f became flustered or agitated by how this was worded and made it a point to emphasize, that it was in the mountains north of Santa Fe, not just in the mountains of Northern New Mexico.

            People should do their own research into this, but I find that trying to eliminate any places/states WITHOUT a specific statement from f saying that it is NOT to be found there is probably not the wisest decision a person could make.

            I personally don’t see f’s lack of mentioning or talking up other states north of New Mexico in the early years of the search to be cause for eliminating those northern states. I see it only as f not intentionally handing out information that he thought (early on) could have helped a person find the chest.

            I think as time moved forward, and f became comfortable with the fact that disclosing potential states and eliminating others was not an advantage for finding the chest, that f then went ahead and clarified the information, first eliminating UT and ID, and later Canada.

          • JCM –

            I appreciate your thoughts on this matter of course.

            Lots has been said since 2013 vs little that was said previously. I am reading that old material because i’t easy to do. This is like an investigation whee I am trying to eliminate theories on the chase.

            If I find a Fenn quote that references any state other than New Mexico in 2012 or 2011 I can abandon this line of thinking as you suggest. I believe the following quote is from pg 131 of TToTC.

            ”I knew exactly where to hide the chest so it would be difficult to find but not impossible. It’s in the mountains somewhere north of Santa Fe.”

            To me that seems like an odd way to refer to the Rocky mountains encompassing 4 states. He thought about that, wrote it, edited it and pretty much printed it. He could have wrote Rocky, or named the states, he didn’t.

            Then for 6 months he did interviews and hosted people in Santa Fe. NO mention of any other states ever, to anyone, is that odd?

            Richard Saunier is the first person I am aware of to ever public ally suggest the treasure could be anywhere other than New Mexico. Reading that blog post today does not show me how far we have come. It shows me how little we have progressed. Remember this?


            Grateful for your time sir,

          • Well, we do have fenn talking about the elimination of Canada as important… If only NM is the place to be… why bother with telling all about Canada capuy on the map from his book tftw.

            Maybe another way of looking at “in the mountains N of SF” is, we might need to know more about the range itself than the states it occupies.

          • Lugnutz, the research you bring up is what we, nm treasure . Com were looking at in 2011, your assessment of early info about the search area at that time leads me to a truth in life, sometimes your earliest impulses are often correct, but in the lack of hard evidence like a smoking gun, the trail becomes cold.

            When Forrest promoted the Chase and Memoir (s) TTOTC and TFTW suddenly the base of the search expanded, and Colorado was the natural extension of the trail, more than 5.5 million people vs 2 million in Nm, and Northern NM above Interstate 40 just half of that. That’s not to say it was the (his, ff’s) reason because I am certain that Colorado is in his description of several clues such as “end is ever DRawing nigh” and that stateshe border, 90 miles away has a disproportionate number of the Rocky Mountains in its 4 sides, being bigger and more of the range, but 5000 to 10200 squeezes the marvel gaze and if we tarry scant ie remove part of them it might narrow this search, THE nearby Mountains (just) north of Santa Fe, are Sangre De Christos and the San Juans a little to the west, certainly both of these are in the southern Rockies, only in New Mexico and Southern Colorado does the Pinon grow in abundance in both (sub) ranges,so when Forrest flew North to Cody, WY or West Yellowstone, Mt he probably flew a compass heading equal to the # of days he was in Vietnam and or the # of missions. Check Google Earth pro and draw some tangents.

            I was struck when ff said on page 82, he thought he saw a potential target, but upon closer exam was a funeral procession. How sad.

            Why tell us? Why does the grave marker have an X in the name? That passage, an epitaph on a French soldier grave stone from 1947 Indo China War that was written in perfect English “If you should ever think of me when I have passed this vale, and wish to please my ghost, forgive a sinner and smile at a homely girl” WHAT words are these, what do they reveal? Why are they in the shape of a rainbow?
            Enough food for thoughts?

            Tom T

          • Hi Tom –

            You know you are one of my favorite people here, but you are not really saying what you mean here.

            Firstly, TFTW was released 3 years after TToTC, so I don’t know why you are mentioning those together. If you want to say things changed after the release of TFTW or after the CBS airings in 2013 that’s fine. Everything I am looking at predates the release of TFTW.

            In my opinion you should just say what you think the soldier’s words mean. Or why you see Colorado in DRawing Nigh, then we can discuss it.

            My favorite solve includes spots on both sides of the border.


    • Well done Cris. Obviously a huge amount of work went into this great addition to Dal’s fantastic blog. Your efforts are much appreciated and I’m sure I will be using this new tool a lot.


      • Pinatubocharlie – thank you. We have had someone already reach out to us about a couple of items we had missed, and are adding them to our database for the community’s benefit. We hope others will do the same. Good luck searching!

  12. My blaze looks like an M or a W depending on your perspective. Looking quickly down gives me a choice. Follow the pointy part or just look for something in the wood. I have no idea where to walk to find Indulgence. The Chase goes on for in the wood and worth the cold. No raging rivers involved.

  13. This site it great, I’ve lurked here for just over a year now without commenting and just thought I’d share some thoughts.

    A user a few years back had commented on the possibility of ‘and in the wood I’ relating to Dinwoody. I looked up Dinwoody Creek which starts East of Gannet Peak and just South of West Sentinel. You can then follow Dinwoody Creek downwards, through a canyon as referred to in the poem, and eventually Dinwoody Creek runs into Mud Lake (The distance from the beginning of the Creek to this point would be too far to walk). Could The ‘below the home of Brown’ be a reference to Mud Lake? There also appears to be some Forrest in this area. Mud Lake/Dinwoody Creek then also runs to Dinwoody Lake, the Creek connecting the two lakes looks pretty rough here which may acccount for ‘heavy loads and water high’.
    My favourite part regarding this location is I believe the Petroglyphs or Dinwoody are very near to this location, and if you google those Petroglyphs some of them look very similar to owls that other people have mentioned.

    There are roads not too far from this site which would also back up the fact the great man could have done it in one afternoon.
    Anyway, just speculation from an armchair searcher in Scotland, hope you guys keep posting and keep up the chase!!

    • Interesting creek and surrounding terrain, Marc. Seems like you have the makings for a solve. I found a picture of the creek emerging from underground out of what looks like a large cave at the head of the impressive canyon below Dinwoody Lake. I suppose the warm water could be the glacial melt which collects in the lake and then exits that cave into the canyon down.

      • Excuse me… On second look it seems that the Dinwoody Creek flows into Dinwoody Lake making it above the lake… and from what I can see it seems the cave where the creek emerges into the canyon might be below Mud Lake. To fit the poem to these features might make the entire second stanza a single clue. West Dinwoody Lake Rd runs closest to the creek just below Mud Lake…..fun to look at some interesting new terrain and bend the poem around it, but one must wonder how the poem and the first clue would have guided the searcher to this area.

    • .. On second look it seems that the Dinwoody Creek flows into Dinwoody Lake making it above the lake… and from what I can see it seems the cave where the creek emerges into the canyon might be below Mud Lake. To fit the poem to these features might make the entire second stanza a single clue. West Dinwoody Lake Rd runs closest to the creek just below Mud Lake…..fun to look at some interesting new terrain and bend the poem around it, but one must wonder how the poem and the first clue would have guided the searcher to this area.

      • Thanks a lot for the replies! It must be great for you guys getting to go hunt thie treasure, the thrill must be awesome and I wish you the best of luck. As to my theory, it starts toward at the last stanza which kind of goes against what Forrest has said, hopefully I get to search there one day though, I hear it’s beautiful.

  14. I haven’t been blogging much because i am working on my weight. Its one of the reasons we haven’t searched this year. I am prone to tripping & any fall can cause injuries. My last fall on the trail i just missed a couple of sharp rocks. one could have damaged my knee & the other my knogan. we personal felt we needed to step back until very badly. we want to be a little more fit before we search.
    The reason i am working on losing weight is i don’t want to go hiking and have Mr Fenn to get blamed if i get hurt or something. I am RESPONSIBLE for my action not Mr Fenn.
    Same with my bird watching i go but i use trails that are easier & i use walking stick. Avoid the heat & drink water. I take being responsible to a high standard because i am VERY over weight. That said i am down from 320 to 292 in 7 months. Its more than you should lose 2 pounds is the excepted amount & i will probably start to slowing down some now i am getting use to walking. Point is if i drop dead is it Mr Fenn fault because i choose to walk to go searching or are the birds at fault because i want to see more of them or does bad things happen.
    It’s all about our choices & the risk we choose. Life is boring without some adventure & risk but we must choose wisely & accept responsibility for OUR choices. some people jump out of airplanes. Very risky but if you train, use safe gear, & check it before you use it you usually survive but bad things still some times.
    God bless you Mr Fenn you got a fat lady in too the woods camping, hiking & now exercising to lose weight & that Sir is a
    major accomplishments & something happens to us it’s our fault not yours n

  15. Just returned from my first search and had a blast doing it. Even without finding the TC this time I have learned a ton from just being out there. Getting BOTG gives you a new perspective on TTOTC. A few things that I’ve learned: Always use bug spray though some types of bugs seem immune to it. Always bring a fly rod while searching. Rivers and streams can be much more powerful than they look. Have back up plans in case that once you are on site you determine your area(s) of search is not somewhere an 80 year old man would be able to go. There are tons of downed trees and other obstacles out there.

    On a side note, my son and I learned how to fly fish. After a guided trip were able to do well on our own and caught lots of trout. We also saw a lot of animals including elk, bison, deer, and antelope.

    • Sounds like a lot of fun and memories were made, Aaron. Glad to see you and your son got to fly fish. Would you be so kind to teach me how to cast my line out correctly, please? 🙂

      • My (then) fiance tried to teach me to fly fish while we were in a canoe, back in the day. I still married him. In his defense, it was a Coleman plastic version which a friend dubbed “a barge with points.” Very stable.

        • Oh my gosh, that must have been something. I watched a couple videos before commenting to see how it’s done, and I saw one can kneel, or stand up. I have a hard time trying to cast off shore, or standing in the river. Have trouble getting my line straight onto the water. Sometimes when I cast, I hear the cracking and know I’ve done something wrong. I think I’m hoping the fish will die laughing and float to the top because of it. 🙂

      • Pdenver: the hardest habit for me to break when I started out fly fishing was bending my wrist at the back of my cast. A lifetime of playing golf is not without counterproductive muscle memory!

        • I’m glad playing golf helped you, zap, unfortunately, I do not. I’m not sure if I tried wrapping my wrist with something to remind myself not to bend it, until I got use to doing it naturally, if that would help. As far as my line goes, I may not be lying my pole straight in order to have my line follow through to lay straight, too. It’s been a while since I’ve gone outside just to practice my cast.

        • No, Pdenver, you misunderstand: being a golfer made it HARDER to learn how to properly cast. In golf you ~do~ bend at the wrist. So if you’re not a golfer, I’d say you have an advantage. 😉

        • Zap, I had the same problem at first because of casting with a spinning or baitcasting combo. It took some practice and my son actually stuck his rod handle in his shirt sleeve to keep from bending his wrist.

      • Thanks pdenver, I’d be happy to teach you. It takes a bit of practice to be great at it. Thankfully most of the spots were we fished were easy to cast to. 🙂

  16. Hits on the blog have doubled in the past 24hrs. A story must have reaired on one of the networks or cable channels…although I don’t know which one.

  17. Cris: just wanted to express thanks for a fantastic new resource, and to Dal for letting us know about it here! Sooo much easier than a targeted Google search — particularly for Fenn quotes extracted from videos. Just wish I had had this two years ago — would have saved me endless hours of research compiling my own database! 😉

  18. zeldasings comment

    As I have gone alone in there…
    I have made three searches looking for this treasure. The first one was in 2013 and I was by myself and went into the New Mexico back country. I did not find the treasure, but I did not die. I took two other trips with a search partner, once again, we did not find the treasure, but we did not die.
    The Thrill of the Chase: trying to solve the poem, having to put boots on the ground to check out your solve, and realizing you have to choose to keep trying, if you want to.
    That’s the thing, I chose to try to solve this puzzle, I chose to travel to the Rockies three times, I continue to support this quest.

    In this time of being fed electronic stimuli, constantly, of not having to utilize thinking skills , of being able to live vicariously through media, it seems important to me that a true adventure exists…. for those who chose to experience it.

    The key word is choice. The searchers chose to do so. I feel bad for the families of the people who perhaps died while on their quest, but that was their choice, to experience this adventure.

    In my opinion it is absurd that “authorities” suggest that Fenn stop this adventure. I applaud Fenn for creating an opportunity to use your brain, to go out into the natural world, and perhaps, just perhaps, find The Treasure Chest.

    • I agree with you zedlasings . On our first search at clear creek trail near mavrick camp grounds in cimmaron canyon when we were hiking to the falls there was a high wobbly 4 by 4 beam to cross low water but very large rocks. Not sure we would had died but seriously hurt non the less. We stupidly decided to cross & we nearly fell. HEART STOPPING ! Bad news we had to return that way even dumber. Point we took a risk & we didn’t get hurt. We pledged after that no stupid chances because the TC not worth permanent injuries. Lady the year before fell breaking her leg on this trail & it took rescue people 9 hrs to remove her . We didn’t hear any calls for clear creek trail to be close.
      If Mr. Fenn were to call for this to end & people went hiking & died who would they blame. When White House chef died up near Taos i think no one yelled stop hiking up there. You can’t fix bad choices.
      I love bird watching if i get hurt hiking looking for a new bird do we band birding or blame Audobon? No

  19. Sorry everyone.
    Monday evening:
    The blog is teetering on total loss of service as we approach 2,000 hits per hour. I assume this is traffic instigated by the three network stories this morning. Wait for things to die down and try again later.

  20. Dal—-

    I had no problem getting into the blog, I just can’t get out. When I hit escape I can’t leave–I’m thrown into another thread. I’ve been trapped in here three hours now. Have you ever had anyone complain that they can’t leave the blog? Just curious. I mean, I like the Blog and all, but three hours is a long time. 🙂

    • Sparrow,

      You need to read “Alice in Wonderland” normally. Then, go back and read the poem over and over again. Then read “Alice in Wonderland” slowly, looking for aberrations.

      Simple! 🙂

    • Sparrow, just hit Ctrl alt delete. Some systems want ctrl alt pressed simultaneously then hit delete, that will brind up “task manager” and you can highlight the internet connection and end task.

      Also if you are having trouble getting onto dals site hit comments or the Thrill at the top heading or just try an older email in your email search that looks like a magnifier glass. Type thrill on that line which comes up.

    • Reminds me of the lyrics in Hotel California. “You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave”.

  21. At 730am the blog is still inundated with traffic. If you continue to receive error messages try again later. Sorry for the interruptions.

  22. Why didn’t any one interview the other people in the boat, were they actually looking for the treasure or were they just out rafting. It seems like all the media is trying to point fingers at ff. The treasure hunt has helped a lot of people and it has hurt some. It can be very addicting to some, but so can gambling, playing the lotto, and a million other things. People dye every day trying to get a thrill- are you going to shut down all the amusement parks because someone got kill the other day? FF may be the reason a lot of people go out into the wild, many unprepared, but FF has mad it clear that it is not in a dangerous place. Common sense HAS to be followed any time you are outdoors. My sympathy to the family and friends, but you can’t blame ff for what happened to them.

    • Would be nice if every searcher posts their own personal waiver should they do something stupid and die. I release FF from any guilt whatsoever if I’m a fool and go where he says not to go. If you add your name to this perhaps FF will read it.

      • There is no need for a waiver-Anyone including myself ventures out on his own free will. No one forced me.We must ban driving on public roads because someone died while passing on a double solid line. After saying all this I hope I don’t have a mishap on my search–Trying to stay safe..

    • Some guy moves to Colorado over a year ago, then falls out of a raft doing what many people do during the summer in Colorado, and media suggests it has to do with the search. What if he were killed in an auto accident a week earlier? Still tied to a search? Isn’t it odd that media won’t report that no one else in the raft called police nor ever spoke with police during the month since the incident? If they were under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol, I imagine they wouldn’t.

      And why won’t media report on the dozen+ others who have died on Colorado rivers this year who didn’t happen to tell others over a year ago that they intended to search for a hidden treasure? Vultures.

      • this says it all.

        I searched “Arkansas river royal gorge drowning” and the #1 item was titled “Seasons First Colorado Drowning?” about an April accident (with a pro guide)

        somehow NBC didn’t pick up on that one. Vultures.

        • I am a bird watcher please dont insult vultures. Agree why not go after walmart, target, bass pro for encouraging people to go fishing who died while fishing or companies that advertise snow mobiles or jet skis that kill & injured people.

  23. I monitor rivers and such in the Cascade Range (Rockie’s neighbor). Rivers receiving snowmelt are taking or nearly taking people every day. PLEASE USE EXTRA CAUTION AROUND STREAMS. I have also noted an unusual number of Cougars showing up near towns, suggesting they are roaming due to some environmental stress.

    You can check on rivers online at
    which will also provides a comparison of “current” vs “normal/average”

    Our guys are out in the mountains every day. We constantly “refresh” their safety mindfulness, because getting comfortable OR rushed reduces risk awareness. Ask often “What is the hazard here, now?”

    Still, stuff happens, so be prepared should things get sideways.

    • Dittos, I would like to add, crossing the Arkansas R.. on foot when the flow is above 600 cfs is NOT advisable. You can find river readings in some local daily newspapers, (in the Pueblo Chieftain, on the weather page, proablly also on the net.

  24. I share your heart Lifesablaze. I am seriously considering taking some friends on my next search. One friend is 88 years old who I take trap shooting every week…he shoots…never misses… and I drive. The next friend has MS needs a wheel chair for longer distances and a cane for short walks. Another friend had her eyes burned out in a chlorine pool treatment incident that ruined her life. All of my friends can make it without any assistance to where I think the TC is located. I believe the National Parks do a fabulous job of making the Chase experience accessible for all. There will always be idiots who will jump into a geyser off the boardwalk or into a raging rapid to save their dog. The common denominator between me and my friends is that we believe! My friends have never heard of Mr. Fenn’s Chase. Shall I take them on a walk in the Park? The scenery will be breathtaking. We have already found treasures in each other, but perhaps we could stumble upon Mr. Fenn’s treasure for added joy.

    • Not so veiled threats. I welcome you to my heart. It will change you forever. That’s a really long time.

  25. I disagree with the news, accidents always happen, just because MAYBE they were looking for treasure makes no difference. Personal responsibility seems to have taken a back seat in our society. For anyone to blame Mr. Fenn or the Chase is ridiculous. A book with a vision of bringing families together in our great outdoors should and will be seen as a great vision, how can it not. The loss of human life is always a tradegy and my heart goes out to those families who have loved ones lost by accidental death.
    Enjoy the great outdoors and enjoy it freely. If by chance one of us happens to find a trove while doing so I hope they proudly come forward and tell they’re story of adventure. Thanks for the thrills Mr. Fenn.

  26. Back on July 11, 2017 at 4:46 am Mindy added to the thread some insight into nouns and how they are used in Mr. Fenn’s poem:

    FWIW, it is my opinion that you have to “screen or filter” the words in the poem through the eyes of the writer. I know, that seems pretty obvious. That’s where all the hints come in from the books, interviews and postings Mr. Fenn has been involved with.

    Here’s a simple test, What belongs where the x is placed?

    1 3 5
    2 4 x

    Scroll down some more…

    Many people jump to the incorrect solution of the number 6. I did when I first saw this. But the correct answer is the letter R, for reverse. Some clever/tricky person simply lifted the shift pattern off of a 5 speed stick handle/knob.

    When considering word selection in the poem, we have to keep at the forefront, is this what Mr. Fenn meant? I am of the opinion that some of the answers will not be given up until you have found the first clue and are standing in the wood. I know this is not the most popular theory, but it makes the most sense to me.

    Good luck everyone!

    • swwot, This is a very profound comment, Kudos!

      We all know Fenn has worn many hats in life and each expression he makes when commenting orally comes from a street savvy politician, but when he writes there is a total other persona coming out, sorta like a mathematical genius verses a concert cello player, both are accomplished in their own right but use a different method to illustrate and define their effect.

      If Fenn makes a mistake (orally) he often covers it with something like this: “To misspell the word emphasized my point that having knowledge is, in fact, not as important as being resourceful. Also, when I make a mistake through ignorance that ploy gives me a degree of deniability that I routinely need.” “Well you’ve asked me a lot of questions and some of them, most of them I’ve answered, a few I haven’t, but I gotta tell you there’s one thing that I told you that I wished I had not.”

      Many time I think Forrest uses teasing terms that may relate to the location of Indulgence, these are not Freudian Slips, they are subtle, sublime hints, like: “you might as well stay home and play Canasta”.

      How many definitions of it are there?


    • Cowlazars shared that in one of his videos a few months back–good to remember though. 🙂

      • Here you go swwot. I thought of this last summer but haven’t figured out if it’s a hint or just an aberration. Haven’t seen anyone post it before and I’ve been thinking about the poem since 2013. Mr. Fenn begins with “AS I” As he is a writer. He pens. AS PENS. I have been looking in blazes of these many times. Can’t know if it means anything until someone finds it and divulges the location. I don’t plan on revealing where it is if I find it. But would like to give Mr. Fenn his bracelet back. Be safe. Stay out of the water and just look in the wood.

        • Road Hawk,

          I am no poet. But I did take some poetry classes in college to fulfill my “English requirement”. I think I took them mostly because I really like playing word games, games with words and puns galore. (Not that I’m any good at them, I just enjoy them.)

          It is my opinion that the good poets invoke imagery with their words that we as hearers, or readers, take from our “common experiences” and memories of said experiences, in our minds, something we can hang our hats on – a warm fuzzy, if you will. If it is additionally eloquent, flows with good meter and is easy to remember – we tend to like those poems even more than the garden variety type so common in much of what is published these days. But I digress.

          Mr Fenn’s poem is “not that great” to listen to, as the meter is off in a few places. However, it is poetic license that allows him to do that and I suspect that that is part of the architecture that he has alluded to a couple of times.in the past. I would be very surprised if this poem were ever memorized in grade schools and chanted whilst skipping ropes. It’s a good poem by many accounts, I just don’t think it will become a top 10 favorite anytime soon.

      • Sparrow,

        Really? I don’t recall seeing it in a video. I saw it in one of my auto trade magazines awhile back – I’m pretty sure it was in print. You got a link I could follow?

          • That’s wild! I guess great minds think alike, or something like that. I noticed that his video was posted in December 2016. Kind of makes me wonder if what I saw in print came before or after he posted the video. I toss my periodicals after I read them, so I cannot go back and look for it. Maybe Underhood News? But it might have been an on-line article where I saw it too, but definitely not this video. I’ll dig around a bit to see if I can find what I saw – just don’t hold your breath waiting.

    • Interesting, thanks for sharing Kelly. Has this helped you at all. I don’t see a mention of his home and if we knew it we still know that we have to get the other clues first so not sure what to make of it. IMO I think it would be too easy to be able to reference a person named Brown and go straight to HOB.

      • He lived mainly in Missouri but spent some time near Taos and near the Arkansas River. He would represent a good map and the measurement of Chains. Someone would have to find out where he stayed in Taos as I cannot find anything

        • Kelly –

          Surveyor Brown is the devil!
          The more you read the more connections your mind will form to the book, the poem and the scrapbooks.

          It really seems lie there must be something there, but that does not mean that there is something there.

          I just use Taos as HoB when referring to Surveyor Brown.

          Now for fun start looking at the Taos street names and translate the spansih words to English. Lots of down canyon action in Taos.

          Miranda Canyon Rd leads me to Ponce De Leon Springs!
          The Blaze is like 91 feet from the warm waters in my solve.
          I still love it!


        • It’s a good point. For that scenario to be true you would not be able to know where his home was to begin with and only find and verify it in site after following the canyon down. This is my opinion based on the fact that we cannot expect to be able to skip any clues and go straight to HOB.

          • The following Camp Sites are referenced on the Document 747, however, Surveyor Brown might not have had a ersonal experience involving any of them:

            Ocate Gap and Ocate Mesa
            Osha Pass
            Rio Fernando de Taos

          • That’s interesting. Well, if you can find something documented on site at one of those locations it might be worth looking into I would say.

    • Surveyor Brown was researched extensively. I tracked his movements into New Mexico but couldn’t connect the dots enough to keep going. Interesting guy, though.

      • Clearly surveyor Brown, if a tie back into the poem, appears to point toward New Mexico. Maybe something, maybe not. IMO

  27. I have a question… I keep seeing things that reference a rainbow. Did Forrest say something in regards to rainbows or is this something that people put together themselves? I searched on the Tarry Scant website and the only reference seems to be either trout or colors of paintings. I can’t find where Forrest mentioned rainbows. I’m hoping someone can help me out

    • In his book, The Thrill of the Chase, he wrote that the poem “…if followed precisely, will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure.”

      Some think that might be a hint on where it is. Or, maybe, that Fenn is a leprechaun.

        • Leprechauns are notoriously known to be tricksters. There are many hints in the memoir. It’s a tour. Read the book and go see for yourself. Think safety.

  28. Dal, Could you please put this thread A Forest for Forrest on the home page or make it noticeable again for the last of us who want to contribute a picture of a tree for ff’s birthday which is August 22nd?

    Also, I think everyone who appreciates what Forrest has done and continues to do should send him a Happy Birthday card. He will be 87 years old August 22. Forrest Fenn, PO Box 8174, Santa Fe, NM 87504 Let’s flood the Santa Fe post office with Happy Birthday greetings!

  29. To the searcher that lost a copper colored pen flash light, a few weeks ago, about two hundred yards from the blaze. The make of the flash light
    is Snap-On. It has a lip on it to attach to your shirt. If you want it back
    let me know. endoftimes12@outlook.com

  30. Hello to all you searchers out there.

    I am fairly new to this process so please forgive anything that I comment on that may have been previously posted/suggested/bludgeoned to death already (I have 7 years worth of blogs to review, but wanted to share this thought train before it gets lost). My comment is regarding a couple of quotes from FF which I find interesting, as follows:

    “Read the blogs for entertainment, and the poem like you were going to put an X on a map. Beyond that I am not compelled to reiterate. Hunt prepared and go safely. Good luck. f”


    “Read the clues in my poem over and over and study maps of the Rocky Mountains,” he said via email. “Try to marry the two. The treasure is out there waiting for the person who can make all the lines cross in the right spot.”

    Given that FF has (at least) twice referenced using lines that cross when finding the correct solve for the poem, has anyone attempted to find what I would assume would need to be 4 points of reference within the poem and seeing where they cross?

    In other words, all I seem to find are straight, albeit serpentine, solves, not the proverbial “X marks the spot” solves.

    I’ll now add the proverbial IMO clause… 🙂

    • And, also the fact that he could walk “right straight” to it. An “X” looks like two “V’s”, it could be the lines of a right triangle. Just what lines, that would be the hard part. Maybe the poem has to do with the “grand scheme” of things. Maybe the “Golden Ratio”. Write out the poem in the form of a “golden ratio” spiral. Curves from right straight lines, to end up where you begin, hmmmmm, would be different. Maybe the poem on a piece of paper, following this spiral could create an “X”?
      You might be new, but your post stirs thought. Keep looking at his after comments, they are huge. Good job.
      Then again, it could be as easy as folding the map from TFTW and seeing an “X” form from some of the places. Still, I would keep on that thought of yours if I was you. Finding a different way to solve the poem will be a plus. You’ll know your on the right track when others tell you no. Mirrors, mirrors, mirrors, no might mean yes in this scenario.

      • Thanks for the reply, Charlie.

        Your “golden ratio” seemingly ties in with his architect statement about writing the poem, so maybe you are on to something there as well.

        Something else I’d like to share as it pertains to my “X marks the spot” thought line is his big picture statement — seemingly would make sense that drawing lines from the places he describes would take that comment into account.

        Another afterthought after having just typed that out has to do with the double omegas I have read about at various times. Some solves have the poem containing layers. If this is the case, the winning solve might involve using the poem twice—once as a big picture with more of a circle rather than an X, and then when one goes BOTG (Boots on the Ground for any other noobs besides myself) using the clues to identify the straight-line solve within that big picture zone.

        For example, using the Big Picture, I can use much of the poem to draw a search area near Hebgen Lake, as follows:

        Hebgen Lake Area (WWWH)

        Earthquake Lake (NFBTFTW as the river flows from HL to EL)

        Boat Mountain (PI / Put In is commonly a nautical reference)

        Beaver Creek (HOB as beavers are brown and assuming the creek is named after and populated by beavers)

        Circle of Mountains above EL (Hear me = Echo Peak / Sage Peak = Wise / Redstreak Peak = Blaze / Kirkwood Ridge = Wood)

        That’s just a quick example of a Big Picture solve and then one would then have to go BOTG to solve the second layer of the poem now that the big picture omega has been solved.

        And my second guessing of all my trains of thought now begins… 🙂

        • I should also mention Imp Peak is in that area as well, and that ties into FF being a jokester/trickster…LOL

        • IMO – I think that’s close….my current thinking is that the first pass at the poem is outside of the four search states, and that the blaze is what leads you to the right place to “start over” with the physical locations that the poem refers to.

          So, the first solution follows the clues to the blaze, which gets you to the right starting place in a search state where you will find the treasure by following the clues a second time.

          There are TWO endings. Thus the double Omega…which also have a second meaning….am I talking in circles yet?

          Maybe that will help someone….maybe, but no wonder that it could take 100 or 1000 years to solve….then again, maybe not.

      • So will the actual location have an X on the ground or on whatever to mark the location?

        • Covert One – As I may never get BOTG, I won’t know until someone does find it and lets us all know.

    • Interesting theory Bomarc. Thanks for sharing.

      I find it interesting that X is the only letter of the alphabet not in the poem. Surely that was intentional.

  31. Could owning Indulgence really be dangerous?
    In light of recent comments I was thinking maybe having the chest might actually be life threatening. I mean people come into money all the time. The current powerball jackpot is over 300 million. But indulgence is different.
    Like Toby said, a lot of people have invested time and money in the chase and some of them may feel like they are entitled to a piece of the treasure. And from my observance some of them may not be totally stable (no offence to HOD members).
    I’m not egotistical but I’d like to tell the world what I’ve accomplished and get my 15 minutes of fame, but I don’t want to get shot over it!
    I can hear you all muttering “find it first you moron” but it does make me wonder how the finder will fare …whoever it is.


    • bowmarc- its fairly unusual to read a comment that could actually help a searcher.
      I think you may have missed one important point. .. “who can make all the lines cross in the right spot.”
      Sounds like more than two lines to me.
      Good searching

      • Emmet,
        Are you citing a quote from Forrest with this comment:
        “who can make all the lines cross in the right spot.”

        I found this ‘quote’ from JCM here ( https://dalneitzel.com/2017/04/02/the-hidey-space-3/ )
        “Read the clues in my poem over and over and study maps of the Rocky Mountains,” he said via email. “Try to marry the two. The treasure is out there waiting for the person who can make all the lines cross in the right spot.”

        I’ve been unable to find an original source for this/these comments reportedly made by Forrest. In all cases, I like to see the full context of what may be an important comment.

        Can anyone cite a source to the original comment from Forrest? Thank you for any info.

      • I was a bit hasty in my earlier post. After a bit more searching, I believe I found the source for this comment. Unfortunately, it’s from a ‘reporter’, so proceed at your own risk. Here’s the link to the actual article: http://www.businessinsider.com/forrest-fenn-fortune-hidden-rocky-mountains-2017-2?utm_source=googleplaynewsstand&utm_medium=referral (Oz10 posted the link on ‘The Nine Clues…Part 73’). It matches the JCM quote in my previous comment.

        • My apology to those better informed than me for regurgitating old news. Hmmm, oxymoronic? I hadn’t seen that article before today.

        • Hi Joe — I would agree that there is reason to proceed cautiously with second-hand Fenn “quotes,” particularly from reporters as opposed to seasoned Fenn searchers. From the very beginning of the BusinessInsider story, there is reason to be a little skeptical:

          “At some point in 2010, Forrest Fenn made two trips north out of Santa Fe and into the Rocky Mountains. On the first journey, the art dealer carried with him a bronze, Romanesque chest. On the second trip, he brought a backpack filled with gold coins, gold nuggets, and gems.”

          This narrative would be quite misleading to a new searcher because it claims he made two trips *from* Santa Fe — once with the chest and once with the contents. This is in direct contradiction to statements we KNOW Forrest made.

      • Thanks Emmett. It hadn’t escaped me, I just wasn’t necessarily sharing all my ideas about this line of thinking. 🙂

    • ****** randawg wrote – “Could owning Indulgence really be dangerous?” ******

      I’ve always appreciated the following piece of advice (or maybe “safety tip”):

      *”If you find the treasure please keep it in a vault for thirty days while you think.” f

      Seems like common sense to me, for both the treasure AND the news that you have it.


    • If it’s a concern, remain anonymous. No need to go for the 15 minutes of fame. Disclose the find to Fenn and ask him not to divulge your identity.

      • If the finder remains anonymous it will add even more mystery and lore to the story of Fenn’s ‘Chase’.
        I’ll bet dozens of people would claim false victory and try to capitalize on it.
        Some of the best problem solvers in the world have been analyzing Fenn’s clues and I feel that the anonymous finder’s identity would be found out and released to the public eventually.
        I suppose I would wait 30 days and then ask Mr Fenn for advice on what to do.


  32. Interesting to hear some mention golden ratio – ff said the person who figures it out will go right to it. I doubt if a ratio is involved in going right to it.

  33. Agree with you Covert One. You can go straight to it if you know where it is. I posted this before under the nine clues section but it seems appropriate to repost it here:

    Concerning whether the poem can be solved, the treasure chest location deduced, without BOTG, the following two Fenn comments from tarryscant.com and mysterious writings.com indicate to me that the location of the treasure can indeed be solved from home:

    First. Question posed to Mr Fenn:
    If the poem is a map and will tell us exactly where to go, why couldn’t the little girl from India get past the first two clues? I think it’s because after solving all nine clues from home, the ocean prevents her from journeying to the precise location to retrieve the treasure chest.
    Mr Fenn’s response:
    Thanks for answering it for me.

    Second. I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.

    • Tom B. — you forgot this one, which I think is the strongest evidence that all the clues can be solved from home:

      “How much progress can be made by someone just thinking and searching the Internet from home? (Another way of saying this: How many clues can only be decoded in situ?)”

      “All of them, in theory, but not likely in practice. A searcher must go to the site to find the treasure.”

      • Zaphod. That’s a good one. And I would emphasize more time thinking about the poem and less time on the internet.

    • He said thanks for answering that for him, he never said that the answer was correct.

        • Tom B, ff had about 109 or so rules he lives by, 06/28/2012, dal. His rules gravitate up or down on his list, one over arching of his first two rules says:”But it boils down really to one rule and I don’t care what you do or where you are, it boils down to this; doesn’t matter who you are, it only matters who they think you are.”

          If he doesn’t want to answer a question for any reason he usually finds a way that can leave one wondering if you posed it correctly or did he actually answer you?

          Either way f is very savvy answering orally and is deft rethorically in his response, so he did not break rule 1.

          Tom Terrific, as in enthusiastic about saving the Rockies.

          • There are other examples where he expressly stated that he would not answer the question asked. So, he is not averse to being direct with his desire not to answer a question. There seems to be quite a few that believe Fenn is crafty and perhaps says things specifically to create confusion. I personally believe that is not true and that it is a disservice to Forrest, but to each his own.

  34. Dal – you should start a poll to see which poster here is “most likely to find” it and the one “least likely to find” it. You could also add in a few other versions like “most likely to get lost” or the searcher “more likely to find oil” instead of the chest….or how about “most likely to do something good with the findings”?

    • Covert One, good ideas, reminds me of how often the crowd would be correct in Jeopardy or Price is Right. Collective Wisdom is a potent weapon in most cases, except in our case, I fear it would convert the “Thrill” into a popularity contest. But everything you write makes me think you are close to a solve, so write one up.

      Your comments are always insightful.

      Tom T

      • Tom – thanks for your kind words. Yes, I am close to the solve – now, all I need to do is determine which state it’s located in.

        I agree that a poll would become a popularity content but…..just trying to keep it fun!

    • CovertOne … what an awful idea. The blog descends into a high school popularity contest, which to some extent it already is, since posters tend to respond mostly to posters who post the most comments, rather than to messages with the most depth of thought.

      Further, “popularity” is just another word for “group think”, you know, as in “follow the herd” mentality.

      Ken (in Texas)

      • Ken – Anyone following the herd in the chase, might just be running the wrong direction…

      • Thanks Dal for the survey information from Fenboree 2016. I assembled a basic survey and want to share the results once we have a good collection of responses.

        See link below to take the searcher survey:


        If you are searching and don’t want to share an answer, no problem – just skip it and move to the next survey question.

        It will be interesting to see how those here respond.

        I plan to publish the results once the pace of answers slows down. Enjoy!

          • I would add that you should update questions #8 & #9 by using the word “between” when you delineate X and Y (#8), or the phrase “more than X but less than Y” (#9) — Just reads better IMO.
            As to Q#4, FF has stated that “Physics tells me it’s wet”.
            As to Q#6, FF has stated that BGIWWWH is the first clue.
            For me me there is no higher authority regarding the poem than FF himself. 🙂

          • Randawg and Bowmarc – the minor typos have been fixed so that the questions read better. Thanks for flagging these!

        • Well this should be interesting…

          Looking at the poll from last year by Wisconsin Mike, if those results were even closely accurate to the total universe of searchers, then about 70% (the majority) of searchers were flat out wrong about what the first clue is…

          I suppose if people do not select BIWWWH as the first clue, we will know just how many don’t pay any attention to what f tells us… or they choose to ignore him because they think they are somehow smarter or know something that f doesn’t.

          I look forward to seeing what the results are Covert One. And then going with the minority answers for what is most likely to be correct. 🙂

          • JCM…interesting, and true analysis of the state of affairs. Also intriguing is that it is early August and folks are hatching up Surveys instead of getting out there and getting that dang box…or at least “surveying” their “solve” area.

          • JCM – it will be interesting. I’m going to let it go for a few days to gather more information before it’s shared here.

          • JCM,

            Isn’t your comment “…then about 70% (the majority) of searchers were flat out wrong…” supposed to be marked “IMHO”?…or has there been a definitive, verified confirmation of what the first clue is?

            ~ Wisconsin Mike

            P. S. I might be waiting 30 days to respond…

          • WM – a couple months ago Loco found a radio station interview recorded in 2013 where f specifically states that BIWWWH is the first clue. There is no more question about what is the first clue in the poem.

          • JCM – there is an alternative interpretation. Searchers at the time of the survey (myself included) may not have had enough information to correctly delineate between what Forrest considers a hint vs. a clue. If there is a hint in the first stanza that is critical to figuring out WWWH, I would have a hard time deciding whether he considered that first-stanza information a hint or a clue. Only now do we have additional information (admittedly from 2013!) that sheds light on his hint/clue dividing line. So while I previously considered first stanza information to be a clue, I’m fine if Forrest instead considers it a hint.

            I still maintain that no one will figure out WWWH without that first stanza, but if Forrest considers it a “hint” because it helps you solve the WWWH clue, then fine.

          • Zaps

            i’m def in your ‘Beeblebrox camp’ mate
            re; stanza1 poss containing multiple hints

            and, although i’m quite sure that Canasta is a fun game to play (for awhile), i’m almost certain that finding wwwh was more indicative to Forrests intentions for all us post-avidly-curious searchers, tbh

            so (looking at the bigger picture) could “riches new and old” be a Canton ref.?
            ..and did you know W.Churchill wrote a book entitled ‘Alone’?

            and Winston/Canton are both towns located in mid-MT, almost 10miles apart?

            (..which is also known ‘Oscar’ territory 🙁 )

            (..i.e. take extra-strength bear-spray! 🙂 )

      • Covert One: I answered the survey with the exception of the keyword question. That’s perhaps the main problem with “group think”: the best answers are never going to be revealed, and the group answer is popular but dead wrong.

        • Zap – Good point about “group think” or “herd mentality”…..interesting how science refers to some types of study deviations as the “placebo effect” but religion simply calls that “faith”. Thanks for your data points….the survey will be interesting to you once it’s published. I’m going to give it more time to collect more input / numbers of respondents.

  35. on scrapbook 172 in my opinion is what I think is stanza 1 that’s why we will not stumble up on it – and if you can see the hole on the wall and the pit is the omega imo that’s what we will looking for at the end— as I have gone a lone in there with my treasures bold I can keep my secrets where and hint of riches new and old (is a hole) imo

      • Spallies – there are two holes – one is the old hole that was already there – the new hole is the one in the wall where he dug to put in the tc – new and old – im sure that you can see by the picture that they are not to deep

  36. the picture that you see is not the place – but its a place that is close to it that’s why the hole in the wall – is where he put in – imo

  37. Here is something which may be useful to some searchers. I am going to apply logic to one of Fenn’s clues, as I learned in a college course, admittedly many years ago. The poem says after we put in below the home of Brown, “from there it’s no place for the meek” . This must mean that the connecting leg (the creek) through and including the blaze/treasure site is “no place for the meek”. Logically then, the beginning location (where warm waters halt) and down the canyon to home of Brown” should be “a place for the meek” Synonyms for meek include lowly, humble, modest, unassuming, etc (so these may apply to the beginning and first leg). Antonyms or near antonyms for meek include high-and-mighty, high-handed, lordly, superior, bold, brash, etc (so these may apply to the second leg and treasure location).

    • Tom, you logic worked well until you got to the last sentence…That which is in parentheses: “(so these may apply to the second leg and treasure location). – Shouldn’t that have been “first” leg not second, since what is in parentheses is referring to the antonyms or near antonyms? JDA

      • I think it’s correct as is. The antonyms (opposites) of meek should apply to the second leg of the journey where “its no place for the meek”.

    • Question – Haven’t you extended your logic too far though?
      “From there it’s no place for the meek,
      The end is ever drawing nigh;
      There’ll be no paddle up your creek, just heavy loads and water high.” Period – end of thought –
      New thought –
      If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
      Look quickly down, your quest to cease,
      But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
      Just take the chest and go in peace.
      Period end of thought.

      Everything from “New thought” down is NOT associated with the meek thought, so must be excluded from your logic scenario – shouldn’t it?

      That means, I guess, that it is up to us, or irrelevant whether or not stanza #6 is a “meek” area or not. What say you? JDA

      • To me, when Fenn says “from there it’s…”, that is equivalent to “for the rest of the journey it’s…”.

        To me, the statement that “the end is ever drawing nigh”, means that from the home of Brown, the creek takes you directly to the treasure location. There is a change of direction at home of Brown (in my opinion) and from that point on you are getting closer to the treasure with each step.

        • Also, to me, “heavy loads and water high” is not describing a specific location. It’s describing the journey you are taking along the creek. You are looking for a creek that rises substantially in altitude between home of Brown and the blaze/treasure site.

        • “From there” can mean only – From hoB etc….
          as I pointed out to a period – end of thought. Why couple stanza #5 and stanza #6 together as one thought. Periods have meaning. Is it
          critical whether Blaze, quickly down and tarry scant are in a meek area or not? I guess that is for you to decide. If it is not critical, obey the period – If it is critical, that is your choice… you can stop at the period, and then just re-assess (for no given reason) and say that it is important that stanza #6 also be in a “meek” place. Makes little difference I guess. JDA

          • JDA. I think meek and heavy loads/water high are clues to get you on the right creek and going in the right direction at the home of brown. Cold, brave, and in the wood apply to the blaze/treasure site. This is the way I see it.

          • And tarry scant would also apply to the blaze/treasure. To me, this simply means to not hang around the treasure site too long. But I’m not sure why he would be telling us that unless maybe it’s s warning that once we have the chest, there are those who might want to take it away.

          • @Tom B Don’t ignore the “but” from the “tarry scant with marvel gaze” line. “But” could mean “from there”, suggesting that once you reach the end of your quest to find the blaze, your gaze is being directed elsewhere.

  38. For those who missed the survey link, I’ll post it again here:


    We still have a fair number of people coming to the survey. As long as there is a good amount of activity, I’ll let it collect input for a few days. If there’s a question you don’t want to answer – don’t answer and move to the next question. This is all for fun and I will share the results here when done.

    • Thanks for doing this, it was fun! I had thought about doing something similar on my site, and you beat me to it! I’m excited to see the results.

      • We are still getting good input to the survey so it will be interesting to get a large enough sampling to see what the data actually does say.

        Will provide the detail when the survey input starts to slow down.

  39. Tom B what JD is saying makes sense, and the “Put in below the home of Brown.” (cap. B) as you correctly stated is where most all of the searchers would probably agree that, from that place, HOB: “From there it’s no place for the meek,” The wording does NOT insist that you MUST TRAVEL in there, but if you are of a mind to risk traveling in/to no place for the meek, “THE END IS EVER DRAWING NIGH”. IMO

    However, there maybe another way out; “There’ll be no paddle up YOUR creek, just heavy loads and water high.”

    Everyone sees this from their (solve) perspective and anyone could be right, including yours, it takes a lot of thinking about the Chase and new eyes/brains are enlightening and we often see someone go thru what we believed or deciphered some time in our past thoughts. We shall not ceasefrom exploration and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. T.S. Eliot

    TOM T

    • Tom T,

      “We shall not cease from exploration and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.” – T.S. Eliot

      Could this refer to “home”?…IMHO, it does.

      ~Wisconsin Mike

      • Whale Come Back Wisconsin Mike, well I am just about convinced it means look for a second layer in the poem, I know ff said he felt like an architect after he constructed the poem and carefully examining the WWWH clue, which has now been confirmed as the first clue, I am certain after a linear attempt at a General solve, that there were two WWWH’s one at 32 degerees and one at the Embudo train station both on the canyon down, IMO Rio Grande River. type in Winter Thoughts on Dals search line and see my first layer, another words a linear solve, but another layer of the poem exists that encompasses Latitude and Longitude, and that is why we will know it for the first time.

        Tonight on this blog at “Where Warm Halts” several other searchers are starting to get my idea, that there is a lat/long. factor which uses a common denominator of 22.5 degrees. So read both the winter thoughts from search line and the latest on WWWH, after all the border is 90 miles due north at 37 degrees lat. the longitude I know now is calculable but the word Tare from Tarry is what give the measurement away.


        • Tom – would love to understand you but your comments are very hard to follow, since you want to talk about it care to EXPLAIN it? I’ve been trying to follow yours and others ideas the last few weeks…Tare the marvel gaze…??? I’ll re-read your winter thoughts, I get the layers idea, heard the lat/long theories, but any help on what your actually on about would be appreciated. For the record I’m not of the opinion that secret codes exist within the poem, so don’t fear the questions, just curious for the thrill, money aint everything.

  40. nmc. You said: Don’t ignore the “but” from the “tarry scant with marvel gaze” line. “But” could mean “from there”, suggesting that once you reach the end of your quest to find the blaze, your gaze is being directed elsewhere.

    I have to disagree. The poem says “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, Look quickly down, your quest to cease”. Seems pretty definitive that the chest is to be found at the blaze site.

      • I think the poem/quest is to find the blaze. From the blaze, we’re asked to look for the only thing that stands out from that vantage point. I guess at the heart of my interpretation is Mr. Fenn’s warning that we shouldn’t discount any words in his poem. “But” was one of the words I felt shouldn’t be discounted.

    • What if “quest to cease” means “quest to the end” (of the blaze) by looking down, and from there you should look for a “tarry scant”? Not saying that’s the way to go, but it makes more sense to me than scurrying off like a thief. But we can agree to disagree.

    • Another way of looking at the entire line would be:
      But = Simply ;
      Tarry = Blackish in color like tar;
      Scant = A flat stone, like a grave marker;
      Marvel = Stand in awe; and
      Gaze = Look or examine.
      Therefore,“But tarry scant with marvel gaze,” can be interpreted to read: “Simply look at the Tarry Scant with awe.”(Interp.)
      Or “Simply look in awe at the Tarry Scant.”(Interp.)
      It also could mean, “Do not spend a lot of time looking at the tarry scant” –(Interp.) (It is not here) Food for thought – JDA

      • Or another way:
        But = simply ;
        Tarry = linger
        Scant = a little bit
        Marvel = Stand in awe; and
        Gaze = Look or examine.

        can be interpreted to read: don’t stay to long looking around…

        maybe its considered a sacred place

        • Davzona. I agree that tarry scant refers to not spending much time at the treasure site (for reasons unknown).

          • In addition to “tarry scant” there is also “brave and in the wood” that both seem to apply to the blaze/treasure site. If I look at that in a simple way, it seems to indicate there may be some kind of danger involved. However, Forrest has said that looking for the treasure is no more dangerous than other activities on the mountain.

          • but danger may only play to physical nature, what about the legal danger? if on certain property. IMO IMO IMO – there are 2 possibilities – FF wanted it to be found on land where you don’t get to keep the box/gold, rather your legal ownership is gone the minute it is found, such that the RIGHTFUL owners retain ownership (remember your story of the find will be yours forever, book/movie deals may prove much much more valuable to the finder), OR, very specific public land with clearly defined ownership paths for abandoned property (my layman legal opinion leans toward BLM land as NPs, NF the gov is gonna take it. Of course these assumptions are based on the idea that the find is made public in some way, if someone finds it and never tells anyone, nor sells any of the contents, what fun is that? Pass it on to your heirs…again, lame imo.

          • You guys do know that his original intent was to die there, Right?
            Place where he could view and smell nature… Why the heck would he tell us “don’t say too long,” “don’t spend much time there,” or worry about “legal Danger” ???
            ‘What If there is no legal question.’

            Well, if your desire is to keep it “simple,” ya donnit.

          • Seeker. Remember that Forrest has indicated that he doesn’t like rules. I don’t think “legal” issues would influence his desired resting place.

          • @Seeker That was my take as well – why would we be encouraged to leave quickly when he planned to stay? Didn’t he also suggest we bring a 6-pack to celebrate the find? Sounds like he expected the finder to tarry a bit and enjoy the view.

          • IMO, I think about all the tours in Yellowstone that they do daily. If you were standing off a trail there, you could hear them but they may not see you. Especially if you’re standing where all the trees fell, you could be standing feet from someone & they would never know. IMO

          • Tom b ~ “Seeker. Remember that Forrest has indicated that he doesn’t like rules. I don’t think “legal” issues would influence his desired resting place.”

            I have heard rule about bend and twisting words and Harvard literature rights and wrongs… But if you like I can post comments about… not talking anything from Indian lands or follow rules in such places as, YSP.

            Exactly which rule breaking, you remember, fenn is indicating that we should follow?

  41. BirdieB:

    Yes! I think Fenn is hinting (tarry scant, brave) that perhaps the treasure is in a place where you might need to “bend” the rules..

  42. Seeker. You really expect Fenn to tell people anything other than to follow the laws? He could find himself in legal trouble for doing so. Of course he is not going to come out and say that! All you need to do is read this to know that he could certainly have put the treasure in such a location:

    FORREST FENN: I spent a bunch of money with a lawyer to figure out the question about who owns it if it’s found on public land, on private property, or on Indian land. And, there’s all kinds of answers. If it’s found in a National Park, according to my attorney, the person that finds it is required to take it to the Park Superintendent. The rules are different if you find it on private property. If you find it on Indian land it really gets complicated.

    • Whether he actually did put the treasure in such a location is something that each searcher will have to figure out for themselves. But there can be no question that he considered the circumstances.

  43. Not to place a fly in the ointment, but since ff likes to make up words, look up the word TARE, now make it plural and scant, or deduct with the Marvel Gaze.

    Let’s assume that a certain geological feature is 4 miles away, say like the Royal Gorge in Co. But an 80 year old man could not walk to it, too far to walk, so could tarry scant mean to subtract something.

    So did you look up the word TARE, AS IN Common definition in original, old usage….DEDUCT the weight, length or volume of the container. Why is it plural, a common denominator perhaps?


    • ****** TT writ – “So did you look up the word TARE, AS IN Common definition in original, old usage….DEDUCT the weight, length or volume of the container. Why is it plural, a common denominator perhaps?” ******

      I’m not sure whether you’re being intentionally enigmatic, Tom T, or just trying to put out information in a rush (and believe me, I can be unintentionally telegraphic too in skipping over parts of what’s clear in my own mind in a rush to put it into words and onto a page).

      The plural of tare is tares.


  44. For the past 2 months I have been reading all about Mr. Fenn and his treasure. He has as many people who believe him as he does who question him, it seems. I have had a few things in common with him, in my own life. This is what I believe. He is straightforward and honest and the treasure is out there, still. He took a big chance when he retired from the air force and chose a brand new path in his life. You could say he left the path and wandered into the woods of his life, just as he has described where the treasure is. If a treasure hunter is brave and in the wood, not near any human trail. Human nature for the majority of people is to follow a trail of some kind. This is why some may come close but their tendency to not stray from some kind of path will keep them from seeing the treasure. It takes an exceptionally adventure driven person to stray from the path they have set out in their own mind. Most people I have gone hiking with could not find their way back to a trail after only walking 100 feet into un-marked forest. This is human nature. Why I always take orange tape with me to use like bread crumbs. X marks the spot in Mr. Fenn’s favorite place. Many have assumed it is yellowstone because he spent his summers as a boy there. This may not be the case. I spent my summer as a youth in a specific area of the Colorado Rockies but it is not my favorite place. I believe the poem and clues are as straight forward as he has stated many, many times. I also believe his favorite place is closer rather then farther away from his home. I am not hunting for the treasure, no time and lack of energy but this is a fascinating story for the time being. Two things that stick out to me are the 66000 links or 8.25 miles. An odd figure to come up with out of the blue. I believe this means the road to where x marks the spot is probably very soon after you get 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe. I also think , like many, that it is in New Mexico for the reason that he stated in an interview that he hopes this quest brings a lot of people to New Mexico. Whom ever finds the treasure, if anyone ever does, will have to be someone who has the courage in their mind to go off of the path through a place that appears to hard to go. Good Luck Seekers.

    • Welcome, Tim. A word that could be very relevant to a man in his golden years: Rosebud. Don’t underestimate the pull of childhood bliss.

    • I also agree with you because I noticed many indications in your letters, although I’m using the pdf book google, outside this I also noticed in some interview and report of 2013 and a 2016 bilyeu hunter, which he says north of santa fe A few miles and 8 miles from the intersecting line, I have heard him say in another report on this line, my opinion on these lines and state borders

    • as you say be wise if you go to far off the beaten path i however think people travel past the tc every day its in a safe place well known just to get a better kick out of all of this or laugh have fun but be safe always be aware of your surroundings a moose may be lurking close by

  45. The tim, I realized this after completing distances and routes, example, everyone thinks that it is in
    Yellowstone, more if it was done 2 trips in an afternoon or late afternoon would not give, it is sixteen hours and fifty five minutes only a trip of imagine travels 2 and quadruples the hours, however much the doubt is well explained, therefore Your fenn says from my house until the place understands, some words very well observed in video reports and documentaries paying attention the wise will know where his search really begins.
    My opinion New Mexico, Santa Fe / Colorado. Border 8 miles and 20 degrees northwest of Santa Fe NM / Colorado

  46. What’s the best way to ask FF a question? I have tried his email with no response.

    Thanks in advance

    • Forrest almost NEVER responds to email questions. Don’t
      feel bad if you get no response. JDA

    • Just write him. We wrote to him about the string & a few other things. Very bland. We also wrote in support after second death to ask him not to drain the pool. Got nice note back . About three or four notes were not answered.

    • I agree with you Tim,

      However, it is easy to “force fit” any place north of Santa Fe to match your perceived clues. I know this because I have done it… over, and over, and over!

      Good luck and best regards!

    • FF has mentioned the concept of a “general solve” (vs. a
      “correct solve”). I’d like to hereby introduce the concept of
      a “general fit”.

      Only a “correct fit” will get the job done.

      With this in mind, good luck in your solving and searching.
      All IMO.

  47. Checking in…We are in southern Montana searching for a few days. Today was amazing. Yeah, no TC but cool experiences and checking things off the list.

      • Searching today I ran into the same spot I have seen on line “somewhere” from another searcher…a square red rock shoved next to a large rock that looks like bronze as you approach it.

        Found lot of intact animal skeletons and LOTS of place to hide things. A full day planned tomorrow in the same area.

    • Thumbs UP………….well written article.

      According to the National Institutes of Health, obesity and being overweight are the second leading cause of preventable death in the United States,. An estimated 300,000 deaths per year are due to the obesity epidemic.

      Overdose deaths involving prescription opioids have quadrupled since 1999, and so have sales of these prescription drugs. From 1999 to 2015, more than 183,000 people have died in the U.S. from overdoses related to prescription opioids.

      Sounds to me like if folks would put down the twinkies, get off their butts, shut off the screens, and get out there they would be better off.

      If you’re gonna be stupid, you gotta be tough…………..No matter where you are.

      • Obesity, I believe, is in most cases self-inflicted rather than genetically-based. It looks to me like deaths caused by obesity generally result from personal decisions (whether “on purpose” or not)
        by the affected individuals. I said “individuals”,
        not “victims” . In other words, it’s their cull —
        I mean call!

        Since this blog is supposed to be about the
        the Fenn trove and the hunt for it, here’s some
        info about it . . .

        The following is based on one or more principles
        of physics:

        On a warm day (say 90 degrees F), a piece of
        balsa wood that has been sitting for a short time
        in the air — and thus also being at 90 degrees F — could actually feel warmer to the touch than a slightly pre-heated (say, to 92 degrees F) chunk
        of bronze. This is because the bronze conducts heat more quickly than does the balsa wood.

        The TC could feel “cold” even if its temperature
        is warmer than that of the ambient air.

  48. Over a million folks visit Yellowstone every year. Most come to see wild places and wild animals. Most (in my opinion) probably never hike more than 500ft from their vehicle. They go to Old Faithful and the lodge. They pull off the road along the Madison to look at the elk. They pull over at Norris Basin to look at the buffalo. They stop at the bookstore at Madison Junction and maybe they stop at the lake to gaze upon it’s marvelous setting…

    When you are in a vehicle with four kids all angry because they have no cell connection to play a game and no Siri to tell you where the nearest pizza joint is located, it can be a l-o-n-g drive thru the park.

    So, at Mount Rainier National Park they want to add cell service near the lodge. Why? Because a couple years ago someone shot someone else in the parking lot up there and when the cops arrived they couldn’t talk to one another because there was no cell service. Park personnel use radio technology…local and state cops do not.

    The pro side says public safety trumps all else and cell service is important. The con side says that it will just lead to more folks walking and hiking into danger as they text and folks will be talking ridiculously loud on their cell phones while others are trying to enjoy the peace.

    The general opinion is that first comes Mount Rainier than most other parks that do not presently have cell coverage will follow…

    I think the purpose of the National Parks is directly in conflict with the ability of everyone to use their cell phones in any of them. I say let the parks remain disconnected from modern distractions as much as feasible.

    But then I also believe they should tear up the roads and disallow cars in the parks ..Make everyone walk in…and take away their bear spray too… 🙂

    But I’m interested in what you think about introducing cell service in the large and remote national parks, the areas now without cell coverage. Does public safety trump all?

    You can read the story here:

    • Holy cripers ! Safety always comes with a price…it just depends on who pays the tab. As individuals…safety is a personal responsibility. In a group setting, safety takes on a whole different meaning as all elements collide. It is NOT a tough call to make(especially w/no cell service) whether I want Big Brother following everyone around in remote areas. My vote is NO for too many reasons to list….but I bet it happens sooner than later.

    • i could be wrong, but isn’t the whole purpose of creating a designated National Park for the benefit of protecting Her dwindling untouched beauty from us ravenous humans?
      (which also provides a sanctuary for us to get away from it all?)

      and wouldn’t cell-phone reception just cause more accidents?

      ..by tempting people to take dangerous selfies?

      i mean.. can’t the cops just use CB Radios in emergencies,
      like John and Poncho?

    • Well, I’m one of those folks that think seeing a paved road is getting too close to civilization. But I’m also the guy with a super duper cell phone booster, and satellite communications. So I guess civilization ain’t so bad, it’s the people I hate to be around.

      The frothing at the mouth environmentalists should take a deep breath, if you’re any where near a paved road civilization is already there. A visitor’s center without cell phone service is just stupid these days.

      Just my opinion.

    • I love the possibilities that technology brings, so I’m sorry to say that I’ve always secretly disagreed with Forrest’s stated reason for starting the treasure hunt, which was to get kids outside and away from handheld devices. I don’t think nature and technology are mutually exclusive. Smartphones are intended to allow for mobility, and WiFi is what got people out of their homes and offices and among other people in cafes and parks.

      It’s true that kids need to get out more, but that’s probably more of an issue with them being addicted to video games than devices themselves. The fact that the people in the article went straight to everyone’s going to watch football games while out in nature describes the real problems are with culture, not technology. Kids of all ages can lead active lifestyles and still be connected. Handheld devices are the same devices that track heart-rate, miles traveled, calories burned, plant and wildlife identification, and keep you from getting lost, among all kinds of other things. I think it’s true that we all need to unplug sometimes, but that doesn’t translate to unavailability in my opinion.

      The paved roads, to me, just means handicap accessible, which is a good thing.

      • Gang,

        I’m going to go Swiss on the subject of cell phone towers in National Parks. But I want to share a true story from my college days. It was October of 1977 (yeah, I’m old as dirt) and I was in a PE class that was an “easy A” for me, as it was an “outdoors class” where we did some repelling down 5 story buildings on campus, made campfires and learned about safety in the woods. The culmination of the class was hiking for three days along the Appalachian Trail as it wanders through Pennsylvania.

        Wanting to stay current with college football while hiking on Saturday, I brought along a battery powered radio which had AM, FM and the “safety bands” to get weather reports and listen in on CB radios. So after lunch I packed the radio in the top of my backpack, pulled the antenna up and listened to the Penn State game. Yes, maybe I am admitting to distracted hiking, but I think at the time my mindset was having my cake and eat it too.

        As I met others on the trail, many asked for the score and some of the other guys in our class enjoyed it as well. The professor tolerated it, especially I suspect, as she knew I was already an experienced woodsman, having been a Boy Scout and hunter before coming to college.

        I am pretty sure that there are few, if any, spots left in the contiguous United States that are not under any kind of radio wave. All you need is the right receiver to pick up the signal.

        Be safe out there!

    • Ring, ring, ring… Hello?

      Hey Bubba.

      Hey Joe Billy Bob! I thought you were fishing in the mountains today?

      I am. I just wanted to call ya to say they got cell service here… they’ve ruining everything! I mean, I’m trying to fish and some teenage girl is yacking about missing her boyfriend. I keep hearing the theme song to Mario Brothers coming from down stream… and I keep getting telemarketing wanting me to buy something. Technology is ruining are country and nature.

      Gee, JBB, Sounds like ya having a bad day.

      That ain’t the half of it… My quad got a flat, the battery operated beer cooler is on the frits and all the beer is warm, the hand-crank portable TV won’t work, my idiot phone is about dead and I forgot to bring the charger, and I think the rangers are tracking my phone conversations… they keep showing up everywhere I go.

      Well, JBB. Just turn the phone off and only use it if ya have to… I gotta run now. I need to get on the computer and check out what’s happening with the chase.

    • I think that I am kind of with Goofy on this one. My main problem is crowds of annoying people messing with my enjoyment of the great outdoors. The fact that those annoying crowds will also have cellphone reception in the future doesn’t seem to make much difference to me. As it is now, people can still use their phones to take selfies, play music, movies, & games on their cellphones without reception using their local hard drives.

      So from a safety standpoint, I think improving cell reception in the parks is a good thing. Nothing wrong with a little extra insurance in case one is in the wilderness and a life-threatening emergency happens, IMO.

      Of course, the quantity of new cell towers is also a factor. I wouldn’t mind seeing 2 or 3 new cell towers go up in discreet locations, but if we’re talking 20-30, that starts to sound like significantly ruining the surrounding landscape.

  49. Not a fan of cell antennas in National Parks or cell tower concealment projects.

    There are some concerning developments planned near urban areas with 5G is coming to neighborhoods in 2020. This concerns me more because that is where we sleep, work and raise children.

    Imagine a smoke detector sized transmitter every 12th house. Might only have open spaces to get away from RF in the future? Probably a good time to invest in companies that offer shielding products and solutions.

    Find out what is nearby: http://antennasearch.com

    • I share in those concerns, 23 kachinas. Have to wonder however, if those Companies will also be involved up to their ears, (eyes) with the ‘bigger picture.’

  50. I was supposed to retrieve the chest today and be discussing the Chase with Mr Fenn over enchiladas at the Pink Adobe but alas.
    I did however find my GoPro camera that I lost last summer! Not sure if it works yet, but I’m hoping at least the memory card is still good.
    I also found a very old and faded Marvel Mystery oil can under a tree with my detector. (Marvel gaze??)
    The scariest part of my search so far? The Motel 6 I’m staying in .


    • randawg – are you quietly implying that the Pink Adobe no longer serves enchiladas?? 🙁

      and thank-goodness that oil-can didn’t catch fire in the scorching summer heat, that’s for sure

      ( ..wait a minute!? …Marvel Blaze??)

    • Randawg….man that is cool you found the GoPro. I love it when that happens ! What a “Marvelous” metal detector find…never found one before. We had a cousin Jimmy that stayed in a Motel 6 once….

      • It was pretty cool, I almost stepped on it! I had given up looking for it and had walked through the area a dozen times since. It has video of me narrating my “hoB” and “wwwh” among other things, so finding it was a great relief.
        PS: I left the car unlocked while I checked in to the Motel and it couldn’t have taken 5 minutes. In that time some lowlife stole my sunglasses!


        • Perhaps you could ask front desk if they have outdoor security cameras on their premise.

          • It was an older pair pd, and even if the Motel had video the thief probably an unregistered shopping cart!

          • It’s unfortunate that it happened in the first place, randawg. Justice will find its due.

          • jeez, sorry to hear of your lost shades randawg

            coincidentally, some cheeky rascal absconded with my sunnies too, while i was taking a wee in the wilderness, on a mountain trail last weekend 🙁

            so if you see them on the black-market (Ebay etc), please lemme know asap

            (they were authentic Jackie O shades, with tort-shell frames and large lenses..)

            ( ..wait a minute!? ..Blex??)

          • Sorry, CH! I did not realize they were yours! I do remember hearing the sound of running water in the woods off-trail, but assumed it to be a babbling brook! 😉

        • Randawg, sorry to hear that you lost your shades. Coincidentally enough, I found a pair of lost sunglasses on the side of the trail on a hike last weekend. They appear to be tortoiseshell sunglasses with large lenses in the style of Jackie O., but if you like, I will happily mail them over to you to put the universe back into proper balance.

  51. A brave and in the wood moment today. I wasn’t 5 minutes into my hike when i noticed a nice sized fairly fresh day old bear track in a place that I didn’t expect to see one. Oh well, thought that was cool and snapped a quick picture unaware of my next surprise.
    I’ve heard mountain lions scream many times and it is an eerie sound. Today though was the first time that one actually screamed at me. Three times in a row and then once a minute later. If you have never heard one up close it is bone chilling. I spotted her at about 25 yards, slightly above me, and staring right at me. I don’t know why she screamed but I’m glad she did. Needless to say my day oddly ended, next time I’ll take my good friend Mr. Wesson. At my age I’ve learned to stay clear of cougars. Be careful out there folks, and remember its no place for the meek.

    • I’m glad everything turned out ok for you strawshadow… yes it’s good to have Mr.Wesson beside you when hiking….. take care and go prepared… until next time… see ya friend..

    • Strawshadow, glad to hear the cat gave you a warning and nothing else. This is one animal I have not seen in the wild.

    • Strawshadow, I’m planning a search hike in a place that has
      known to be (at least occasionally) populated by mountain
      lions . . . although I don’t know how sparsely, or how
      frequently they have been seen in that area.

      Would you like to give any info about where you were,
      without disclosing too much to other searchers? Thanks
      in advance.

      Good luck in your future solving and searching.

      • tighter focus,
        They are everywhere, I have seen 3 in 3 different places while searching in the Rockies. This encounter was special because of the communication we had between us. It also was within a quarter mile of a well traveled trail. I wouldn’t worry to much where ever you are, just keep your eyes open.

        • Thanks. My search area is more than a mile
          from any human trail. But I still plan to be
          alert, as I have seen bear tracks & scat in
          that “neck of the woods”.

      • TF — I spend a good bit of time in Mountain Lion wilderness. They are usually shy nocturnal hunters. The very few times they have attacked humans, it has been from a ledge above and behind. Be mindful if you are in these conditions. They don’t charge like a bear might.

    • Strawshadow – where were you during the cougar encounter?

      Good to hear you escaped without a scratch from that kitty.

    • Thanks all, she was a wild one indeed. It took my best Forrest Fenn stare to convince her that the chase had taken a turn and she was not the object of my attention.

    • I saw some big cat footprints in my area but they were smaller than a cougar’s. I figured they were most likely left by a bobcat? I also heard coyote’s howling nearby which I had not heard before.


    • Straw shadow that wood bee tragic if you ever had to shoot such a glorious creature. Some things should be left to their environment. Does God count dead cats? Maybe she liked her warm rock and you disturbed her snooze. It was good you went away and left her to her terrain. Do you know by chance if there was a cat in the story of Hansel and Grettle?

        • I find safety in numbers pdenver think what you want the tide has turned and it smells rank with deceit and I am 99 percent sure a button is about to get pushed. A story about trust loyalty and blind faith and how it all turned out to be a pack of lies would be a good one to write. A fairy tale for the elite. I’m done with this.

          • Lifesablaze

            i agree 110%, that any glorious creatures should be undisturbed where possible, which includes all of them i reckon
            ( ..excluding mosquitos!! 🙁 )

            maybe she was protecting her cubs?
            ..or just havin’ a quiet sun-bath before a lazily late brunch even..?

            thankfully “Strawshadow” wasn’t on the menu, on that particular morning, imho

            ( ..as opposed to a lawyer, perhaps? 🙂 )

    • Mr Shadow…glad at your age you have learned to steer clear of cougars. This one was probably a cranky old biddy…and indeed you were interrupting her nap. No doubt she was a bit long in the tooth to pose a real threat. But, a warning is a warning. Watch out, those cougars can break your heart, LOL! I somehow think this isn’t the first cougar who has screamed at you?

    • Here kitty kitty, lol, good to hear your voice SL, your the cat’s meow, the bees knees, the finest spot on the Guernsey, when it comes to the chase as the saying goes.

      • My dear friend, Strawshadow,

        You are, indeed, a selfless person with such a gift for ‘words’

        Some just leave me clueless, but not you.


  52. Good morning – here’s an update on the survey. We still continue to have input by searchers and the results are interesting thus far. Because some of the recent input continues to change the results, I’m going to keep the survey open for at least one more week. That way we can get the most accurate information from as many people.

    For those who have not taken the chase survey, here’s the link:


    If you are searching and don’t want to share an answer, no problem – just skip it and move to the next survey question.

    It will be interesting to see how those here respond.

    I plan to publish the results once the pace of answers slows down. Enjoy!

    Covert One

  53. Here’s an Odd End for a spare moment … Searching my Lame Waters area, I came across this curiosity at 38°52’36.10″N 105°16’37.64″W and thought, Ah-ha, a Marvel Gazer! … & I found a searcher who’s dedication can only inspire the TTOTC dirt-road engineers that navigate at lower altitudes. CLICK ON THE VIDEO and enjoy http://www.lbo.teuton.org/

    Also, that Coin Pile photo preceding the poem in TTOTC may have more significance than just a photoshop of twins.

    • thank you OS2 for the link… I liked that.. have a great evening my friend… until next time… see ya

    • Thank you for the link, OS2. I would love to look through that lens, and I love the song. In regards to the pile of coins, wouldn’t it have been the decision of the artists who helped design the book to have done so?

      • Could be pdenver, but could be ff’s construction or instruction too. Notice that 1/2 of it is on the jacket cover. Doubled, it is such a suggestive coincidence to something that once was hot but went cold as granite. I am on coincident overload in this search area. And it is just the beginning!

        • It may be possible, OS2. I believe there is an audio of Mr. Fenn having a discussion with Danny about the sketch of President Reagan, then Governor, crawling through the window. It’s been a while since I’ve heard this, so I might not be exact in what I say, but I believe I am. In regards to the coins, it may also be a matter of artistic balance on the dust cover, as well as, in the book. Again, as you suggest, there might be something about it. I’m glad to read your search area seem to be pulling things together for you.

  54. Poster FMC described his poem solutions in his current thread “Going to See the Elephant”. Blex responded to FMC, by saying “I particularly liked the idea of ‘heavy loads and waters high’ linked to a quarry”. Readers, you can check out that chain of comments, in the “Going to See the Elephant” thread, which will bring you up to date on how I responded, there. Since discussion in that thread should necessarily pertain to FMC’s theories and solutions only, not to my own, I choose to respond here, in the Odds n Ends thread, and therefore not derail the Elephant thread with off-topic discussion.
    FMC and Blex ….

    I had long been fascinated with the location that my quarry theory pointed to. A presumed ancient stone quarry existed several hundred feet away from “water high”. Working backwards, “water high” was on a dead end road, so that the chest could only be approached from one direction. In your car you must leave water high the same way you came in. There is no other approach to the chest (except perhaps by parachute … haha). From your car at water high you walk several hundred feet to the quarry, a place where FF may have “gone alone in there”. Perhaps some searcher thought the chest was right at water high, not knowing that he/she was just a few hundred feet away.

    Over time I had called local officials requesting detailed maps and other information. Yet, I was spooked by certain characteristics of this location. All of my research had been on paper only; I had not done BOTG. The location looked good on paper as did the solution I derived from the poem. But I had a certain gnawing fear about that location.

    About 3 months ago I couldn’t stand it any longer. I had to know whether my fear was valid or not. If my fear was valid I would not do BOTG. If my fear was silly, I would plan a BOTG trip forthwith. So I phoned the appropriate agency. The lady who answered my call was very nice. To my concern about the area, she responded: “You know, I really don’t know. Let me check with others, and I’ll call you back”.

    When she called me back the next day, she said: “Ken, I have not been able to find anyone who can answer your question. I did talk to one of our local law enforcement guys, and he told me that [concerning whether my fear was valid] >>> “it could be”.

    It “could be”? He doesn’t know for sure? The lady then went on to say: “Have you considered the xyz camping spot about 20 miles away? I know for a fact there’s no problem there …” I told her I hadn’t and thanked her for her considerable help. Of course I never explained to her that my inquiry about this fear or concern didn’t really have anything to do with needing a general recommendation of where to camp and hike.

    But it was that “it could be” response that told me that my fear or concern about the location “might” be valid. As a result I knew then I would never do BOTG to that location. I didn’t care about how much money (or fame) I might be foreclosing on.

    If FF were to consider my dilemma about a supposedly perfect poem solution and chest location, yet choosing never to go there because of some existential fear, he might smile and say: “Ken, there’s no danger associated with that location”. Or, he might say: “Ken, you were wise to avoid that location; the chest is not there.”

    That was about 3 months ago. Since then, I have moved on. It’s hard to let go of a stunning poem solution. But in the last couple of months I have come up with a couple of other potential solutions that look promising enough that they merit further research. Though I have now discarded the quarry solution (because of my perceived fear of that location), I will always retain 4 clues from the poem that led me to the quarry location. Those 4 clues might still apply to future solutions.

    To my knowledge, none of those 4 clues from the poem have ever been discussed or mentioned on this blog, in the 2 years I have been here. That doesn’t mean they are 4 of FF’s 9 stated clues; it does mean they are too subtle to be easily detected.

    Hope this adequately responds to your inquiries, FMC and Blex. I will never publish my quarry solution because, under the circumstances, I would prefer that other searchers do their own research and discover this location on their own.

    Also, I will not let other searchers scout out the area for danger, on my behalf. After all, even local, paid officials didn’t know and couldn’t help me. As with the 4 clues I mention above, this potential danger has never been mentioned on this blog, to my knowledge.

    We’re all keenly aware that BOTG in the Rocky Mountains can be profoundly hazardous. But that doesn’t mean that potential dangers are always so obvious as using a Walmart raft to casually “float down” raging whitewater in some river gorge. Dangers can arise from far more subtle sources.

    I may never know whether the chest is at the location pointed to by my quarry solution. For readers with some knowledge of astronomy, this unknowing is rather analogous to the “WOW signal”, a deep, abiding, forever unknowable mystery. But that’s okay.

    Who was it who said … the greatest mysteries are those that are never solved …

    Ken (in Texas) 🙂

    • Intriguing but is there any more detail you can give on why you think this spot is dangerous? It reads like it’s haunted or something, but I don’t think that’s the actual reason.

    • Thank you for sharing, Ken. From what I know, quarries in general can be very dangerous locations, so if I had to pick between one of the two hypothetical Forrest responses you mentioned above, I would side with the opinion that you are being wise.

      I find that more times than not, an area that looks seemingly safe on a map or GE can be surprisingly dangerous upon BOTG arrival (talking about hikes in general; not only Chase trips). If you are sensing that this area is dangerous just from looking at it in GE, then it very likely is. I think you made the right decision.

      If you ever do decide to make the trip out to look at the edge of your search area to see conditions for yourself, mentally prepare yourself to turn back if it looks dangerous. I’ve turned back on many hikes in the past and have not regretted it once.

      • Blex and Fmc … my perception of the danger doesn’t actually have anything to do with the quarry, per se. It has to do with the generalized area the quarry is located in.

        The area is open to the public. To my knowledge there are no physical or legal barriers. And the lady on phone told me that people hike and camp in that area all the time.

        Maybe I’m just being overly cautious and there isn’t any danger there after all. But I ain’t gonna risk the well-being of my family or myself for a box of chocolates.

        Blex, your experience with GE and BOTG mirrors my own BOTG experience. A year ago I made a BOTG trip to northern New Mexico. I was interested in Pueblo Mesa as a potential sight for the chest. Everything looked good on paper, including the topo map. But when I got on-site, I immediately saw that the west slope of Pueblo Mesa was much steeper than it appeared on topo maps. Even worse, as I tried to ascend, my hiking shoes tended to sink into the soft sand. I did have a hiking stick, mercifully, which steadied my balance.

        Also, I tried to approach the Mesa from the east side, but encountered what I would regard as a 4WD road. I had no intention of wrecking my RAV car, and ended up hiking 6 miles along the road before giving up and turning back. I never did make it to my destination, which was just south of the top of Pueblo Mesa, not on top as that is a protected historical location.

        • I’m looking at Pueblo Mesa on GE now, Ken. Yeah, I see what you mean. That west side looks pretty sheer.

          • Pueblo Mesa requires a FS permit to visit. It is a long drive in on a poorly maintained 4WD road from Abiquiu. Fascinating place. An official Site Steward generally meets you out there due to problems with vandalism etc. In the past. There is no access from Canones any longer. One of my favorite archeological sites on Planet New Mexico.

  55. Forrest’s 87th birthday is on Tuesday…the 22nd.
    You can send him a card at:
    Forrest Fenn
    PO Box 8174
    Santa Fe, NM 87504

    You could also plant a tree in his name…
    For details about how that works go to the top of this page, directly under the big photo and click on the tab that reads:
    “A Birthday for Forrest”

    Thanks for the correction about his birthday…Jeesh!!!

    • Hi Dal: isn’t Forrest’s birthday on Tuesday the 22nd? It’s the total solar eclipse that’s on Monday, just missing Forrest’s birthday.

  56. Seeker ( con’t from wwwh thread)

    The part of the discussion about a 3 year old ,a person in a wheelchair can but would need help and an 80 year old able:

    Like you, I always pair my thoughts to FF quotes about my or any location. These said relate to, imo , in the poem ‘ no place for the meek’ and ‘ braves and in the wood’. These being clues, hints or alludings in the poem matters not greatly of which they are categorized, for every word is part of the whole puzzle anyways. IMO . The quotes you repeat are extremely important to measure with but also within them is some ‘wiggle’ thought in practice .

    Where I have read the poem to and my location, the meek and brave aspects are clearly present and understandable , to me, in all of what FF has said pertaining to his quotes. I could take a 3 year old with me but I would not because it is too risky for their age . I think at least a ten year old would be ok. An 80 year old could for sure as long long as they were healthy. Visually , the area to hike is intimidating if I was new to the area. I wouldn’t bother if I was on a random day hike. It’s some good bushwalking but not far and fairly safe. But I would think ,even as a searcher, the area is non conducive to FF quotes- simply by appearance of said quotes. But meek and brave is the point and meaning of what is viewed there. I am a city boy, it took me a great deal of psych to get courage for me to go alone. I went the most difficult path and had to abort because I wasn’t physically able to continue and failed to get to the spot from where I started and ended up. I figured out after that time the simplest way and direct way to go for my next trip, when that will be I don’t know. There really is only one path to take to get to it and yes a 10 year old or 80 year old can get to it but definitely not a person that can’t walk on their own.

    I think it is easy for someone to be there and think it’s the wrong spot and walk right past the Path to take based on thinking a kid nor 80 year old couldn’t or wouldn’t go there. Meek and brave- don’t be afraid , just start walking in the bush, you can do it , it is safe IMO .

    • Seeker. Also to add something that relates to an FF quote. I never approached the poem counting nor identifying clues; I just think, thought the poem as all inclusive as a puzzle place. After I found the spot I think the poem reads to, did I think to isolate what are 9 clues . That being my method, for wwwh being the first clue was the last clue I determined . Meaning: I didn’t have wwwh until I had all the others first. IMO .

  57. Hi folks,
    I’m still trying to wade through 405 posts since coming back from Montana on a search. We were in an area south of Ennis. In walking to the site we had to cross a small creek with undergrowth on both sides. Aware that bears, big cats and snakes all call this place home, I was alert and was relieved we made it to the search area unscathed. There were beautiful rocks and crevices that would make for a nice spot for the treasure box.
    When I looked up on a rock there was a terrific place to put the loot where most would not see. So, I climbed up and took a peek. Inside were bones. Sizable bones. I found more bones around the spot and figured a big cat must have had a big meal. It was the middle of the day and nothing lethal showed up to make a meal out of me.
    My takeaway? I tried. I put my boots on the ground. I found a spent 7mm Mag shell and if only I were smart enough to get my phone photos onto my computer, I would share them all with you.
    Til then, keep on chasing!

  58. Probably a dumb question. Looking for the umpteenth time at the map in TFTW, I’m thinking the white areas of the map are not “highlighted,” even if they’re within the RMs. True? Any consensus?

      • Emmett,

        I disagree. Look at the I-25 corridor Wiki elevations.

        Casper, WY – 5,150′
        Cheyenne, WY – 6,062′
        Ft. Collins, CO – 5,003′
        Denver, CO – 5,130′ minimum
        Colorado Springs, CO – 5,740′ minimum

        To me it looks like cities and towns where the font is a very light gray are below 5,000′. For example, Pueblo, CO is 4,692′ and Douglas, WY, 4,836′.


  59. Question for masses. Forrest tells us who, what, where, how, and why in poem. Anyone figured out when?

    Thought for masses. In his book, Forrest suggests things would be better if we’d just leave each other alone. If we did that, there would be no need for rules. Human rules are made because we can’t just leave each other alone. War is a result too. So why do people follow rules searching for the treasure? Some rules are beyond humans. Follow those I think. Throw the rest out! Common sense isn’t a rule. It’s a gift that should never be thrown out imo.

    Just seeing what folks think. Particularly if the win makes the difference in finding it.

    • Twingem;

      “Anyone figured out when?” When What? When did Forrest hide Indulgence – Answer in the summer seven years ago. In 5 days Forrest will be 87 – He was 79 or 80 when he hid it. IF he
      hid it on his birthday, or the day after in 5 or 6 days Indulgence will have been in it’s secret spot 7 years. That is a when. He worked on the poem about 15 years – that is a when. Question back at ya’ Is WHEN important? If so, how?

      You say Forrest “tells us who, what where, how and why.

      Who – Who hid Indulgence – Forrest
      What – What did he hide? – Indulgence
      Where – IF he has said where, other than in 4 states, there would be no chase – a VERY weak WHERE.
      How – He drove his sedan to a spot, and walked (hiked) a “few” miles – but he has said NOTHING about HOW he actually secreted Indulgence.
      Why – to get the kids away from their texting machines.

      Reviewing the above, I do NOT think that Forrest has really said very much about ANY of the above, and WHEN is of NO importance to me, and probably not to Forrest, and will play NO part at all in finding Indulgence.

      I will not even bother to address your commentary on “rules”.

      Just the muttering of an old fool – JDA

      • Rules are lures.

        This much I know is true: Life is short and Happiness should be the priority. The chase has made me very happy. It’s been both a distraction and purpose. I have a solve down to inches. It is not the winning solve or I’d have the treasure. Yet, I am unable to move to any other area because it is so precise it leaves no other possibility given my limited imagination. It is my perfect solve, just not for the Chase. And yes, I’m happy! Not too shabby for collateral benefit!

        Now if I could just break all the rules I might find me the darn treasure. (Kidding of course.)

        • I am glad that the chase has made you very happy – that is really all that matters – being happy – JDA

    • My thought was always that he hid it on his birthday and could not remember his exact time of birth so he would have been 79 or 80 at the time. Probably only his Mother knows. Dads cannot remember weight, day, time, or what happened yesterday.

    • Hello Twingem. Considering your thoughts, perhaps “when” may be “Begin it…”.

  60. Has anyone else found the similarities to stanza 1 and stanza 5 curious? I know stanza 1 is saying what he did and stanza 5, following the clues, leave a question as to why he did it but I’m sure there is more to it than that. Maybe not much but it is curious to me. I have broken it down here with some debatable tenses for each line that follow an interesting pattern.

    Stanza 1 line 1: As I have gone alone in there – past
    Stanza 5 line 1: So why is it that I must go – future

    Both lines talk about going

    Stanza 1 line 2: And with my treasures bold, – past still
    Stanza 5 line 2: And leave my trove for all to seek? – future still

    Both lines mention treasure, carrying and leaving it

    Stanza 1 line 3: I can keep my secret where, – present
    Stanza 5 line 3: The answers I already know, – present

    Answers to where the secret is?

    Stanza 1 line 4: And hint of riches new and old. – future
    Stanza 5 line 4: I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak. – past

    I’m not sure if riches new and old somehow relates to done it tired, and now I’m weak but it is curious that FF uses two adjectives to describe the nouns in each of these lines: riches – new and old, and I – tired and weak.

    • Hello Aaron. Would taking the lines from different stanzas and matching them with “past/present,” be messing with the poem?

      • Hi PD, I am not really changing it to try and fit a solve. Merely trying to understand the structure of it and it would it might mean if anything. If he felt like an architect I would think the structure of the poem might be important

      • PD,
        This is the biggest problem with the challenge of solving the poem, imo.
        We have the comment that all the information to find the chest is in the poem… told to get back in the box and adjust… the book is a useful reference, along with GE and/or a good map.

        Unless folks want to believe a map holds all the answers, or the book has all the answers, or the need to research research research every thing under the sun, etc. Shouldn’t we utilize all the poem and not just concentrate on what we hope we think a “clue” is or what it refers to? That’s guessing 101 in my book…

        We’re told we need to follow 9 clues contained in the poem… Even using 9 lines as clues, are we not to utilize the rest of the poem fenn tells us not to discount?
        I think folks are taking ” don’t mess with my poem ” way to literal sometimes. The reason for that comment was because fenn was asked about ‘alternate words’ that rhyme with halt vs. walk…. This suggest to me, Don’t Change a single word for the fact, fenn stated, every word was deliberate.

        But we have been told to think and analyze as well. How can we do that if we don’t toy with the thoughts that Aaron is analyzing? or are these stanzas just fillers like some would say they are. I mean, is stanza 6 just a pep talk? lol. We have clues needing to be deciphered [perceive, comprehend, distinguish, make sense of, is my thought of decipher] before locating them…. I highly doubt all we need to do is pick a map and point to a location to find the answers to the clues.

        Is there anyone out there that can give a resulting reference to the question in the poem?? Heck, most don’t even consider it important at all… yet, there had to be a reason the man who wrote the poem asked and answered it, right?

        Can there be a connection to new and old, tired and weak?
        That was the very first question I asked myself at the very beginning… I hope Aaron has a bit more smarts than me and can figure it out.

        • “So why is it that I must go and leave my trove for all to seek? The answers I already know, I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak”

          To me, this is simply Forrest telling the reader that he is at the end of his life (tired and weak) and it’s time to die (go), and he’s leaving a treasure to be sought after.

          • ” the ANSWERS I already know” . Appears to infer more than one reason for doing it? I had focussed on this ” answers” plurality through my time looking at this poem. A guess is ‘ at best’ at the moment though I feel the poem flow indicates something about it. I think it pertains to ” saved especially for the person that solves the clues”. Then after the fact comments by him when he said something like- the words just appeared on his computer screen. IMO . I dunno anything certain in anyway, it’s just what I have for thought perameters on it. Chest, trove and gold……. 3 words describing one of the same. Using a plural of ways to mean one thing? Imo and I don’t know.

          • “So why is it that I must GO and LEAVE my trove for all to seek.”

            Why use two almost identical terms separated by only one word? Isn’t this a bit strange?

            “So why is it that I must GO…” GO where? GO someplace 8.5 miles north of Santa Fe – or is there a deeper meaning?

            “…and LEAVE my trove for all to seek.”
            Is he simply asking why he hid Indulgence, or is there a much deeper meaning?

            “The answers I already know…” Is Forrest simply saying that he knows why he hid indulgence, now it is up to us to figure out that reason? Forrest has told us that he hid Indulgence to get people (especially kids) out into the mountains to smell the sunshine and to get away from their texting machines. Since he has told us why he hid Indulgence, what is the meaning of this part of the stanza? Why put it there, and then give us the answer? The answer given MUST not be complete don’t you think?

            “I’ve done it tired…” What strange phraseology…”done it tired” Done is past tense of did. “I did it tired???”(sic)
            What did Forrest do? He hid or secreted Indulgence. “I hid Indulgence tired”??? What the heck can this mean???

            “And now I’m weak” Does this refer to his battle with cancer, or is there a hidden (deeper) meaning? I think that there is. Weak can mean “watered-down” – Is this a clue? Could be.

            So much to contemplate, in so few lines and words. JDA

          • I do think there is more reasons he hid it- one of which is deeper imo. There can be stated any type of spin-off reasons that can be said as being inspirations for hiding it; though I think there is an original “core” reason. If everything needed to find the chest is in the poem , then the answer just might be in the chest. IMO. Is it possible to figure it out before finding it? I think the answer is in the chest. IMO.

          • Thanks Aaron. I think the item saved especially for the finder is being reffered to in the poem. Not all words in the poem will aide in finding the chest but it is dangerous to discount any words. I think this saved item is a huge influence in the hiding reason. I see it in the poem such as what JDA has just highlighted. That person will be pleased when she sees it. Not referring to the finders gender, but it’s a clue as to what is saved ,imo, in that answer. To me the poem is where to find the chest, what is in the chest and the ‘ why’ is in the chest. Just my opinion.

          • I know what you mean JDA. Hiding it tired seems very strange. If he was tired why not take a nap first? Something in the Rockies makes you tired? Altitude maybe? I know I got a little winded hiking in it but I wouldn’t say tired. It is easy to walk to but he did it tired.

            I do not believe that that line has anything to do with FF’s physical condition at the time of hiding it.

          • Hello SL. What you said is interesting. I wonder if determining if it’s first narrative, would it be known in the first stanza, since we’re told the first clue is “Begin it where warm waters halt.”

          • (Second try.) SL, this is an interesting thought. I wonder if we would know whether it is in first narrative by finding the answer in the first stanza, since we know the first clue is “Begin it where warm waters halt.”

        • “Can there be a connection to new and old, tired and weak?”

          He could be saying the hint to riches new and old is tired and weak. Take a look at how the lines correlate:

          1. going > 2. treasure > 3. answers to secret > 4. hint of riches new and old = tired and weak?

        • It can’t be figured out until you get farther than a little girl from India. And just like Mr. Fenn stated he didn’t count the clues until he finished the poem. Now before I get shot down I’m flippin a Ue and heading for one, which has nothing to do with the first clue.

          • Straw…I just lost count. Is that an 8 or a 9 you’re nailing to the wall? You might want to pick up speed and keep your eyes on the rearview. Its all about the mirrors doncha know.

          • I like homemade cookies made from scratch better than storebought. I do read the labels on the packages though. Jeeschs that’s an aweful lot of strange words. I like to keep it simple no fancy imported ingredients. Less pressure. Now if I could just get the temperature sensor on the oven to work right we could all have homemade cookies!

          • Please send all delicious home-made baked goods overnight delivery to:

            General Delivery
            Somewhere in NM 87504

        • Hello Seeker. I think what may also be important is the word “follow” when understanding the clues to the treasure chest. If we’re to “follow,” do we change anything in the poem, hence, “don’t mess with the poem”?

    • Yes, I have noticed this before and my thoughts are that it represents (is) a second chance in the chase.

  61. Demonstrating self discipline can come more naturally for some more than it might for others. It comes down to choice.

    Common sense is either a convenience or a challenge. Making the right decision will make all the difference ….. either way.

    “Young men know the rules, old men know the exceptions.”

    • Look up Urban Dictionary’s definition for “biddies”… I think this is accurate to the characters Forrest observed in the line at Borders. Not old ladies.

      • It used to mean chicken but became an insult for old cackling ‘hen pecking hens the kind that make you feel like you’ve been pecked of all your covering feathers and left a bloody pulp in the middle of the yard, like the old YNP ones that picked on a kid for crossing the street., they were cannibals!! (* why did the chicken cross the road, anyways?) Lol, ‘ , i definitely OMGawd at the urban dictionaries so-called terminology.

    • Old women tell ya which decision you ‘should’ have made…..after the fact!

      And they keep tellin’ ya…an tellin’ ya….an tellin’ ya…………..

      • and jus when ya think they’ve finally forgotten..

        ..they promptly remind you again

          • Nanoo Nanoo Mindy 🙂

            ummm.. i don’t know what PD and Jeanns are talking about, tbh ..i mean, who’s Audrey??

            ( ..and does this affect our Vegas plans?)

            (shazbot!! 🙁 )

          • wow Mindy!! – what a massive coincidence… it just so happens that you’re absolutely entirely correct about ‘my Audrey’ being Ms. Hepburn …i mean, when ya right ya right, right? 🙂

            ( ..whew!! – that was a close call 🙁 )

            [note to self: immediately google “Ms. Hepburn”]

          • curious hobbit, I think there’s a woman out there who is going to know how to use a lasso and keep you from running. 🙂

          • thanks alot, for scaring me like that, pdenver 🙂

            but the day they invent a ‘magic gingerbread-man lassoing rope’.. is the day tha

      • Hey Loco, you crack me up!

        But a WISE woman gives you a HINT.

        This line of gossip reminds me:

        “It seems logical to me that a deep thinking treasure searcher could use logic to determine an important clue to the location of the treasure. Is someone doing that now and I don’t know it? It’s not what they say on the blogs that may be significant, it’s what they whisper. f.”


          • Some people have mentioned the word down over the years to mean feathers. So, poking around on GE, I found some curious areas. It seems goose creek stops and resumes as lost creek. I found some nice photos of goose creek miner cabins along the GC trail. Then I found a town and peak called tarryall. Anyone know anything about these areas. Altitude? Getting there looks complicated with roads with no markings, etc. I can’t quite read the words on the cabin itself. Perhaps someone has scouted this area. PDenver, is this close to you?

          • Hello Bob. Tarryall is a couple hours drive from where I live. I have driven through the town, and I hear the woods are beautiful there.

          • (Second try.) Bob, Tarryall is a couple hours drive from where I live. I’ve driven through the town, and I hear the woods there are beautiful.

  62. On page 56 of TTOTC there’s a photo of “Skippy holding a rock.” (Touching??)

    Isn’t that an ‘X’ on the larger boulder to the left of Skippy’s knee?


      • pdenver,

        Skippy has one hand that is ‘ ‘stretched’ out and resting upon the left top of the boulder. Look directly below that.

        On addition to that; I believe the lady in the
        FT Clark” photograph located in the very front of the book is a grown up…. June.

        I’m sure glad you’re here my friend!


        • I can the see the “X”, SL. It is light-colored. But I do not see any significance in it, if you are thinking along the lines that it might be the blaze.

          The joints between these large rocks in the lower left appear to be mortared together. The flatness of the foreground appears very flat and well graded. I would hazard to guess that Skippy is posing in front of a low wall bordering a roadside pull-off area in this photograph.

          • Blex,

            I don’t know about the significance of the ‘X’ either. I do, however, think this photo is of interest.


        • (Second try.) I do see where you are indicating. Thank you for showing me where you saw it. I had to go back to look at the photo, and I believe you may be correct to whom the young lady is. I’m embarrassed to say I thought it was Mrs. Fenn. I’m trying real hard to remember if there was a story about Mr. Fenn being stationed there. Gosh, I cannot remember.

          • pdenver,

            The Flyer went through Survival School in the Philippines,although can’t be at all certain it was at a ‘ Fort’ Clark. I remember him referring to the SS as “Snake School.”

            Might his little sister, June, have any connection to Ft. Clark in Texas?

            Research helps strengthen the (my), brain. lol.

          • Hello SL. Thank you for the reminder. I greatly appreciate it. I’ve always wondered about the nickname “Snake School.” Before responding, I tried to do some research. I’m not sure if I found anything. I tried to use a little imagination and “might” have found something, but not positive. I’m not sure if June has any connections to Fort Clark, but it could be possible. Research is a lot of fun, but I’m afraid with the serious look I give my doing so, I might get permanent lines on my forehead. (Giggle.)

          • (Second try.) I tried to respond, but it didn’t show up, SL. I hope it will be found and brought up. I don’t think I can remember everything I originally tried to post.

  63. I just had a humorous thought, What if when I find the treasure I only tell the one person i know who cannot keep a secret (a malicious gossip). Then I will wait to see how long it takes for the entire world to find out. Now that would be a shot heard ’round the world! Lol

    • Why would f, or whoever’s narrative in the first stanza, do exactly what you said…Why would they hint of their secret? Sounds like you all want your secrets to get out.

      • I’m not getting it either, Fundamental… I find it more hilarious Boaz associate’s with a “malicious gossip.” I guess it’s handy to have one, if you every need one… Like a spare tire that always hissing.

    • I’m confused. A malicious gossip that it was found when it was not? It was found, prove to the friend it was, and then see how quickly the word gets around the world by the friend? The friend “can” keep a secret, but it’s a malicious gossip that they are not?

      • Correction: The friend “can” keep a secret, but it’s a malicious gossip that they cannot (keep a secret)?

      • To make it easier I just read their post and didn’t utilize the malicious gossip in the parenthesis. Lol

  64. My personal fantasy is to find the treasure, then to only take the gold nuggets. Leave the rest and keep it all going. Has anyone thought like that?

    • Not a bad thought for someone who wishes to remain anonymous. Take enough to feel satisfied but leave enough to feel justified in silence on the find. No drama.

  65. Has anyone looked at Meeks Creek in SW Wyoming.
    It is also home to Bear River and the Black’s Fork of the Green River.
    There is also Red Canyon Creek giving you all of the Tea Colors in the Story “Tea With Olga.”

    • I think someone posted a solve in that area, and there was some discussion of it on Searching in WY thread. There’s a lot around there; make sure you’re in the highlighted area of the map as you’re looking. 😉

  66. Hi Everyone. In TTOTC, Forrest said about the poem, “… if followed precisely will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure.”  The phrase “end of my rainbow” suggests to many a pot of gold (the treasure) or perhaps rainbow trout (fishing hole, etc)…. focusing on what’s at the end of the rainbow.  Here’s a little twist…

    As this YouTube video suggests, our belief that a rainbow is arched is due to our location when we see it… down on earth.  But from the sky (like in an airplane), it can be seen as a full circle. 


    Here’s a link too to an article about the circle rainbow.  http://didyouknowfacts.com/video-proves-rainbows-actually-full-circles-not-arches-sorry/?utm_source=Web&utm_medium=Partner&utm_campaign=AOLHP&utm_term=pubexchange-did_you_know-aol

    Coming full circle fits my solve and wonder if it does anyone else.

    • Thanks for sharing Bonnie. Rainbows shapes are all a matter of perspective of the viewer.

    • research rainbow halo. Phenom in the mountains seen at 22 degrees. The end of his rainbow has to do with that. (med. wheel, 24th spoke, 22 degrees, extend a tangent)

    • Yes, my final location has me stuck in a never endi loop. Like pi, not pie. I do love pie.

      I’ve decided to write a book to chronicle my journey on this wonderful quest. I think the title shall be “Circling the Drain.”

    • Bonnie. Fascinating video. Thanks for sharing. I had no idea that rainbows are circles. Would be interesting to find out if Forrest was aware of that fact. I personally believe that he was referring to the end of his life when he mentioned the end of his rainbow.

  67. Hi Bonnie,

    I had linked to that Site awhile back. Fascinating. I received little feedback. Hopefully, you’ll have better luck!


    • Oh, SL, I’m sorry, I didn’t know. From the looks of things it didn’t attract much attention for me either. Sometimes it’s the little things… Bon

    • SL, thank you for posting the link to the rainbow connection the first time. I do recall seeing it, and my mind has been thinking about it for a few hours today. Thank you for the post you had done a while back.

  68. No “Reply” option upthread to Sandy’s comment, so will post here …
    Sandy wrote:
    “Pueblo Mesa requires a FS permit to visit. It is a long drive in on a poorly maintained 4WD road from Abiquiu. Fascinating place. An official Site Steward generally meets you out there due to problems with vandalism etc. In the past. There is no access from Canones any longer. One of my favorite archeological sites on Planet New Mexico”
    Yes Sandy, what you said is quite correct.

    At no time did I think FF hid the chest on the top of Pueblo Mesa (PM). He would not wish to disturb archeological ruins. But, using clues that began with Valles Caldera, I could envision him hiding the chest to the south of Pueblo Mesa, using the nearby Monastery as the HOB. That mesa (PM) has a marvelous view of C. Pedernal, the Georgia O’Keefe mountain.

    I happen to know that just south of PM, there is an interesting geological feature, possibly referenced in the poem, where he could have “gone alone in there”. The feature has astronomical significance.

    But as I mentioned in previous post, upthread, I never made it to that outdoor feature, owing to the west slope of PM and to the inaccessibility from the east side.

    Anyway, I have long since moved on. I no longer think the chest is anywhere near PM. Just wanted to concur with Blex about how internet maps can suggest an area to be benign, but when searcher arrives BOTG, the area is not nearly so benign. At least, my PM solution did not result in any outright fear of the area, as did my more recent solution where I had to make phone calls, yet never did receive a satisfactory answer as to whether my fear was valid. Ergo, there will be no BOTG there … at all.

    Ken (in Texas)

    • Ken, I agree and nor do I believe FF would have hidden his treasure chest on Pueblo Mesa. That is a sacred site, rarely visited and fortunately fairly well protected by site stewards and difficult access. It is hauntingly beautiful and I have visited several times. Often in my research I come across a special place that I want to learn more about for it’s own intrinsic beauty and worth. It doesn’t have to be search related to be worthy of exploration. That is what the search is all about…the joy that comes with the discovery of both our outer and inner worlds. Going deep into the soul of the wilderness and our own spirit. Thank you Forrest…it has been a blast.

        • What about Coloradoans, Strawshadow? (Toe tapping on floor waiting for answer….giggle.)

        • Lifelong Coloradoan, Straw, although I consider SE Utah And Northern NM part of my range. Never heard of Durango though. Probably a horrible place….

          • It was better before the SoCal tech insta-bajillionaires came over and drove up real estate values and rent a decade or so ago. Bistros. In Durango. LOL. The genuine locals are still some of the finest folks.

          • News flash… (actor) Matthew McConaughey is moving to Durango CO! Apparently he’s “tired of the LA lifestyle” and wants to settle in Durango and become a full time searcher for Forrest Fenn’s treasure due to its’ close proximity to New Mexico (ok, the last part is probably not true). Apparently “genuine, real people” live in Durango and he is super excited to mingle with real people! Who would have thought. Since you can’t go to City Market any time of the night or day without running into 20 of your closest friends, this is gonna be great.

          • Straw…my inside information (next door neighbor) told me MM’s is secret code name is “Bubba”. You must be right.

            My daughter just called, apparently she is interested in moving back home.

          • MM is indeed from Texas, but ever since the Lincoln ads, we’ve disowned him. Durango-LaPlata extended their runway years back to handle the private jets of LA transplants (it had been sufficient to handle American and United’s commercial regional planes previously). Remember Forrest’s comment at the bookstore interview where he talked about just gassing up and heading north, and seeing Lander WY with it’s river running thru it deciding he just had to land and take a look-see? I have a suspicion if Forrest saw Durango-LaPlata, his ‘superficial transplants’ radar would go off and he’d just keep flying on north.

    • I’m still not clear on what makes you think it’s dangerous. Is being clear about that aspect something that gives the solve away?

  69. I just found out about Forrest Fenn and his challenge about a week ago. I just got his book and finished it last night. I know, I am a little late to the game and probably too new to be making comments. So, if my comment is lame; has already been discussed; or way out in left field…please be gentle. lol

    On page 14 of TTOTC, Mr. Fenn wrote, “if I had to look up a word I just wouldn’t use it.” I noticed that there were a few words in his book that I had to look up or thought another word would have been better to convey his idea.

    Mr. Fenn strikes me as “Bottom Line Up-Front” kind of guy. So I started to wander if his odd use of words, in particular areas of the book, were subtle hints that the reader needs to focus on that particular page.

    Any thoughts?

  70. Ronnie;

    I think that you have two things confused.

    Forrest said that the treasure is secreted in the Rocky Mountains 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe – or words to that effect.

    Forrest has also said that he drove a “sedan” to a spot and parked. He then hiked a “few” miles to where he secreted Indulgence, and that he made two trips (because of the weight) in one afternoon.

    What is a few – more than a couple – less than a bunch – Many guess between 3 – 6 miles – each way – twice – probably between 3 – 4 seems to be a likely distance. Hope that this helps. JDA

    • Hi JDA,

      Many thanks for the info, this is all new to me so I really appreciate it.

      When you say 8.25 miles north of Santa fe, do you mean 8.25 miles north from one of the four states that he has mentioned?

      Like I said sorry for being a bit vague but I am just trying to build up a picture

      Ronnie the Scot

      • Ronnie;

        You REALLY need to do a bit of research. Santa Fe is the capital of New Mexico. Santa Fe is where Forrest lives, and where he once owned an Art Gallery.

        Use Google to search out some of these VERY basic facts. As other’s have suggested, read everything you can. When I first started, I spent hours reading the blogs. What I did not understand, I researched on Google. Time spent on research WILL pay off.

        Start of reading the “Cheat Sheet” at the top of this thread. As I said before – If you do not understand – google it. Good luck, and happy researching – JDA

      • Ronnie the Scot,
        The comment that refers to your question is found under the header “Fundamental Guidelines” at the top of the page. There is a ton of information you can go through located in yellow [right side] and at the top of each page… The best suggestion anyone can give you is, have a look at this information… Yep, there’s seven years of quotes, comments, statements, interviews {videos and audios} as well as Q&A’s from fenn…
        At the bottom of each page are more sites {links} with more information to check out. Another helpful piece is under “Books by Searchers” ~ Chasing Words of Forrest Fenn by JCM… He has compiled years of information that will help weed out a lot of misinformation { helpful imo for beginners } If your serious or just curious about the chase, you have a lot of reading ahead of you.

        The Quote {comment} you’re inquiring about is ~ “The treasure is hidden more than 8.25 miles north of the northern limits of Santa Fe, New Mexico.

    • JDA-because the cookie is in the history of a painter friend, and interesting about the oreo wafer is that its meaning represents, amount of ropes loved, and the age of the wafer I assure you will be suppressed with the history and its meaning of the Name OREO

    • JDA. You said: “Forrest has also said that he drove a “sedan” to a spot and parked. He then hiked a “few” miles to where he secreted Indulgence, and that he made two trips (because of the weight) in one afternoon.”

      I don’t recall hearing that he walked a few miles from where he parked to where he hid the treasure. Are you sure about that?

      • I will post two quotes that should answer the question:
        1) Also, you’ve mentioned on multiple occasions that it took two “trips” to secret the chest and contents to a very special place. Perhaps someone has already asked this, but I’ve not found an answer yet posted or video recording that contains an answer. Forgive me if this is redundant, but were both trips made on the same day/date? Not to be anal, but that would be one spinaroo of the giant ball we call Earth that constitutes a single 24-hour day to its humble inhabitants.
        Thanks so much.
        Kind Regards,
        Joe, you make this thing so complicated. Reminds me of the reason I don’t like meetings. I hope you don’t belong to a PTA someplace. I made two trips from my car to the hiding place and it was done in one afternoon.”.f

        2) Hi Forrest,
        You once said you walked the 92 miles from West Yellowstone to Bozeman to just experience it. Obviously you were much younger than you were when you hid the treasure. Too far to walk means different things at different ages so I was wondering if you would be so bold as to give an estimate of how far you walked to hide the treasure after leaving your car: was it >10miles, between 5 and 10 miles, between 1 and 5 miles, or less than 1 mile?   ~Thanks, Ron
         Ron, your question sounds like a travelogue, but I’ll answer it. No, I don’t want to be that bold. But I will say that I walked less than a few miles if that will help. I just looked “few” up and one definition is “scant.” Why do I sound like I’m talking in circles?” f

        Do these two quotes answer your question? I hope so. JDA

      • Tom B: you are correct to question JDA’s quote. Forrest never said he walked a few miles from his car to the chest. He said *less than* a few miles. In other words, he could very well have walked only a few hundred feet one-way.

          • Read the quote and it says “less” than a few miles. Not throwing stones at anyone just want everyone to be careful of what is said around newbies. IMO
            His comment about one afternoon could be up to six hours, depending on what you consider afternoon (noon to six?) It very well could have been in much less time. 5 minutes walk “in” and “out” could be done in less than a hour, still FF would be correct in that he made two trips in “ONE AFTERNOON”. In “Important Information” above, “Fundamental Guidelines”, ff said “If you can’t make two trips from your car to your solve in several hours, then don’t go.” I believe that it will be at 500 ft but less than a mile and a half , just my opinion.
            Good luck to everybody and stay safe where every you go.

          • estimating the distance mathematically would help if wwwh was near the vehicle and fenn followed the clues twice in an afternoon time span, less than a few miles over a period of several hours

          • Not Obsessed On. I am in agreement with you. I believe it was less than a mile from the car to the treasure.

  71. Forrest has said “If you know precisely where it is you can probably retrieve it in any weather”, does that mean that the need to cross a river, is out, because in winter the edges will be very icy at the least. Any ideas?

    • You should not need to cross a river, unless perhaps you are driving across a bridge. There may certainly be a river involved between where warm waters halt and home of Brown, but I personally don’t believe you would need to actually get in the water.

    • Please read “Fundamental Guidelines,” and “Safety First” links provided above.

    • Meaning it is not any place that that an 80 year old man would not go. Crossing a river would fit that description in any season. Two people have failed at that. Choose someplace where a small child may find it, and take them there with you and others. The search should be a family event.

    • Forrest is/was an avid and accomplished fisherman, and crossing rivers in waders — under reasonable flow rates — would hardly be considered dangerous to him. Note that Forrest didn’t say retrieval was possible in any season. He said weather. That’s a big difference.

  72. A few is not many. He walked ” less than” a few miles. So this could be anything from nothing to three. It’s a broad range. What if it is only from his car to the spot “less than” .. Yes, less than a few miles, would only be feet.

    • I believe “less than” is the clue. Less then a few. Less than that would only be feet from where he walked. 🙂

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