Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt Part Thirty Five…


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652 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt Part Thirty Five…

  1. Nine new stories from Forrest on video have been posted on the blog. They are called Sage Stories and are listed under Forrest Speaks at the top right of this page.

    My favorite is Slough Creek but I also really enjoy Two Dollar Pistol, The Persian, Lubbock and The Gun Trader…

    Let me know if you hear any hints…

    • My favorite is definitely “Slough Creek”, mostly for this (which, in my humble opinion, is one of the greatest Fenn Quotes of all time):

      “I don’t know why I get myself in terrible situations and I don’t have any shoes on.” – Forrest Fenn

      • I’ve pulled shoes out of the mud that I’ve lost and some that others have lost. ”Not Fun” I’ve never started off bearfoot!

        • While hiking next to a river in YS in July I stepped into this mud hole up that caused me to sink up to my knee. I pulled my leg out only to be missing my shoe. Thank fully I was able to stick my foot back in there and find it.

    • Thank you for sharing, Dal. I just binge-watched them all this morning. It’s good to see Forrest still healthy & energetic and telling new tales. My personal favorite was “Being Positive”.

      (By the way, I can’t seem to subscribe to this new Odds n’ Ends thread. I’m checking the notification boxes, but have yet to receive a “confirm follow” email. Not sure if this is just me.)

    • Hi Dal,

      Forgive me for taking so long to watch your videos, but I’ve been very busy after getting back from a camping trip to Steamboat Rock State Park earlier this month.

      Anyway, I really enjoyed watching them! Thank you much for sharing.

      So it would appear Forrest likes 2s.

      Slough Creek – 2′ deep quick sand
      Deal – 2 Arabs
      Foundry – 2 guys quit their job, 2 weeks before the Indian market, stay about 2″ ahead
      Bookstore – Hemispheres magazine, I.e. 2 halves
      Two Dollar Pistol

      Frankly, I’ve been focusing on 2s for a long time now. How about you guys?


  2. Those are great! I love ff’s stories. I could listen for hours. Lol my favs are the persian and the foundry :), thanks Dal -n- ff

  3. $2 Pistol and the Gun Trader were my favs! Dal, what relics were on display on the table behind him? Looked like Bowie knives and sheaths to me but it was hard to tell.

  4. I seem to recall that the most recent discussion in the now “closed” Odds n Ends thread was a discussion of “Look quickly down”.

    Maybe no one wishes to continue that discussion. If that’s the case, then talk is clearly cheap. And instead, we can talk about Forrest’s new stories on video, or maybe we can talk about “Subscribe”. Would that talk be just as cheap? 🙂

    So in an effort at continuity of discussion, consider the possibility that “look quickly down” might mean >>>

    … “look quickly down” at the next line of the poem before scurrying on with your reading …

    Maybe the blaze is defined in the line below “look quickly down”.

    Nah, probably not … it wouldn’t be a “popular” idea.

    Ken (in Texas) 🙂

    • Ken;

      I posted this yesterday on some thread, relating to “Look quickly down”. Here is what I posted:

      Look = Examine; Quickly = Intelligent and/or pungent aroma (an archaic definition) and Down = downstream. Therefore, “Look quickly down” means that I must: Intelligently examine the pine grove (aeromatic pine needles) that is downstream from the blaze.

      Quick(ly) can also mean – sharp of mind (intelligent) – She has a quick wit – She has a quick mind – That is why I said to intelligently examine … etc.

      Hope that this helps someone – JDA

    • Texan Ken – i like your idea that “LQD” could ref to the line below rather than the immediate environment, as this is exactly the type of red-herring that i (personally) believe Forrest has interred within his puzzle in order to distract people from the less-obvious by eluding to the more-obvious – resulting in a future “why didn’t i think of that” face-palm 🙁

      my “tarry scant with marvel gaze” interp was a small isolated pull-off area where we parked the car, that over-looked the valley and my blaze, where any normal tourist would stop briefly to enjoy the view and take a quick photo

      and (although i came back TC-less) i still believe lines 14 & 15 in the poem are the most enigmatic, and perhaps the most crucial to getting within spitting distance of Indulgence, and may possibly be thee vital connection between ‘heavy loads/water high’ and the TC

      what is your take on line #15?

      • curious hobbit wrote:
        “what is your take on line #15?”
        I’m probably wrong here, but I combined “quickly” with “tarry” to come up with the definition of the blaze, that is, the feature that searcher needs to look for. Play around with those two words and see what you come up with. I then combined “tar” with “scant” to come up with a dark colored smooth stone slab, under which the chest resides. These interpretations I then applied to a previous solution which I have now discarded, though the dark stone covering the chest could apply to almost any solution, I suppose.


      • Ken – you have as much chance of being right, as Zap has of being wrong, imho ..which is to say ‘abso-uber-unknown factor’ detected, tbh

        such is the nature of Forrests ‘level playing-field’ architecture – at least as i interp it

        but is tar a commonly occurring phenom in the RM’s?

        and could a searcher spy the TC from 12ft away, were it buried or covered from view?

  5. Ken,
    I assume that you are taking a poke at me for my “subscribe” post considering that I’m the only one that posted it thus far.

    Maybe you feel that since I only subscribe to the blogs and seldom post things that I am taking advantage by getting the comments sent to my email rather than reading them on the blog? Well, I’m busy most of the time, and it’s easier to keep track by subscribing so I don’t miss some interesting discussion. I could go into detail about why I’m so busy but I don’t want to bore you….

    I will, however, join in the conversation that you wish to discuss even though I may be giving away too much…

    In the poem, there are many words or phrases that appear to be directional. “Canyon down”, “Put in”, “Drawing nigh” are a few examples…

    Now let me ask you a question…. what if “look quickly down” was a directional clue as well?

    I’m not going to explain it but in my solve “look quickly down” has nothing to do with seeing something from the blaze, it’s directional.

    now I feel that I’ve ‘validated my parking’ by participating and gave you something to think about.


    • TimM, I think you’re the first person to indicate the directionality of “Look quickly down” publicly. I am in 100% agreement, and it’s integral to my solution.

      I, too, have taken to reading rather than contributing, as my solution is now complete, and I can offer little but unsubstantiated confirmations or denials of others’ suggestions based on my own interpretations.

      For example, I have been watching JDA’s dogged pursuit of his Wyoming target, and have felt for him, as I, too, have found it very difficult to adjust from a fixed mindset. But it would have been impertinent for me to offer hints based on my experience, as my opinions are worth nothing, yet.

      However, since you’ve indicated you’re considering how best to regroup, JDA, I wonder if it’s worth pondering the following:

      Your area is important to the Chase, IMO, but not as the ultimate goal. That means that there is likely a bigger picture in play.

      “In the wood” has other meanings. At one time I latched onto the same interpretation as you (if my guess is correct), but discovered that it’s a kind of a “diversion.”

      FF has talked about following the clues “precisely.” Although, for the past couple of years, I’ve tried to be precise, until very recently I didn’t realize that you need total pinpoint accuracy to be able to home in on the final location. Even being adrift a few hundred feet at any point in the poem could land you in difficulties at a later stage. (I nearly got myself arrested as a result of a slight miscalculation – but that’s another story!)

      FF has left markings (not on trees), and they’re pretty unambiguous. They let you know that you’re on track. I believe he’s hinted about them at various times, and some are visible on GE these days. I say that because it’s only in the past two or three years that the image resolution has improved enough to be able to see them clearly. Fortunately, as you head towards the end, the resolution was sufficient pre-2010 to be able to discern that the creation of the markings coincides with the dawn of the Chase. That is a huge boost to one’s confidence.

      Obviously, I don’t have the chest, and I’ve run out of time, money and goodwill at home. If I didn’t have an ocean between me and the treasure, I’d go back tomorrow. However, at the end of my most recent foray, I had one heck of a breakthrough, but it required pulling together information from every key point in my own personal chase – without that, I wouldn’t have even considered this particular area. But the “confirmation” was there on GE. At the time, I just couldn’t locate the actual resting place, but since then, I’ve been able to find the extra information in the poem. And I groaned when I saw it – I had applied it incorrectly on an earlier trip, not realizing that it had to be used in the finale!

      Take from this what you will, but if you find that old school geometry set gathering dust in the attic, you might want to hang onto it for a while…

    • I think that determining what “look quickly down” means depends on the nature of the blaze itself. If the blaze is something small and local, like a mark on a rock or tree, then I think it would obviously mean look directly below the blaze on the ground below. However, if the blaze is a larger land feature visible from GE as some believe, then “down” could mean due south, downhill (but what direction is “downhill?”), or downstream (but why one would be directed to go back down a creek that you just came up is beyond my understanding).

      Another item to note: on page 208 of “Too Far to Walk” in the chapter about Eric Sloane (“Seventeen Dollars a Square Inch”), Forrest writes “After all, he was twenty-five years north of me, age-wise, ….” So we have some hard evidence here of Forrest using the word north (and through similar reasoning, south) as a substitute term for above or upwards (or below and downwards as related to south) in his writings. Something to think about in relation to, not only “look quickly down”, but also “canyon down”, “below the home of Brown”, and “up your creek”.

      Incidentally, I know that Forrest has not specifically spoken on any subtle hints hidden in TFTW, aside from the unintentional one in the preface, but if there are any others hidden within, I have been most intrigued by this chapter about Eric Sloane.

      • I think that “canyon down” has a very specific meaning in the context of the area, and is not, as most assume, a general direction. This is even more critical when it comes to the need for precision – you really do need to be “in the canyon down” to be able to find the precise point from which the next part of your journey begins.

        With regard to “look quickly down,” I was stuck on that for the best part of a year by only considering “down” (literally) and “south,” along with blaze directions, feet, and white marks etc. However, there is another quite common usage of the word that fits here, and was very useful to me.

        • voxpops

          If you give enough hints, there will be a stampede. All I can do is to ask of you; Please don’t give away any positions.

          Thank you sir,


          • Lol, Franklin! Although I want to scream it from the rooftops, I shall do my best not to let the cat out of the bag inadvertently. But this thing is evil genius! It has so many twists, turns, cross references, and links that it beggars belief.

            Beware all those who seek Fenn’s fortune; this thing will suck you in and spit you out again in a thousand pieces – you’ll never be the same again!

          • voxpops

            Yes I am going to search in a few hours. And as it appears, you know exactly where I am headed. If I succeed but I will save something for you sir.


          • Franklin,

            You’re very kind, but I don’t deserve any of your find. I honestly don’t know where you’re searching, as I haven’t been on the blogs enough recently to follow events.

            Have a wonderful time searching, and I hope you’re successful!

          • JDA, thank you so much! May I ask you, are you looking under ground
            besides looking visual? I have not seen where people have talked
            about this on the blog. I believe if a person does look under ground,
            if they have a long screw diver, they can find the chest if they shove
            the screw diver. into the right place. What do you think?

          • Franklin: the odds that you and voxpops are searching for the treasure in the same county let alone in the same spot are pretty minuscule.

          • Sam;

            Just ran across your post – almost 20 days from when you posted it. I do think that Indulgence is “sheltered”. I do NOT think a screwdriver will help. Sorry, I can not discuss why I think that. JDA

      • Blex,
        When I stated that I thought “look quickly down” was directional I wasn’t just referring to the word down. I meant all 3 words.

        I’m not going to say any more about it but IMO those 3 words tell you where and how.


      • Blex. You are right on, in my opinion. The meaning of “look quickly down” will be determined by the nature of the blaze. This clue cannot be solved, in my opinion, until the blaze has been determined.

      • As you should Blex. I don’t have that book yet, But you posting that, to me, is a confidence builder. Eric Sloane, age-wise, lol, sounds like the blaze to me.

        A lot of searchers don’t see into the alpha/numeric thing so I won’t bore everyone, but thanks Blex. I’ll say this, he may not have said anything about any clues in that book, except for the one you made note of, but that little thing about Eric Sloane, for me, is a pretty good hint. Big confidence builder. I, of course could be wrong, but if you asked me, your right in thinking there are hints there.

        • Charlie, I may be taking a huge leap into the weeds here so take this with a grain of salt, but I am even more interested in Eric’s diet than his age.

    • TimM … just to clarify, I wasn’t taking a “poke” at you. Sorry if it came across that way.

      Ken 🙂

    • Voxpops

      When I read your first post, I realized I was not alone anymore. Your warning is true, and very well expressed. Fenn’s genius is beyond the pale.


    • Mindy – are you directly related to William Wallace (c. 1270 – 1305) or something?? tsk tsk ..sounds like it 🙁

      [note to self: quickly learn the bag-pipes, sword-fighting, haggis hunting ..and traditional Scottish face-painting]

      [ ..specifically that ‘blue/conquerer’ face-painty colour 🙂 ]

  6. ”Tell me what you have and let’s go do something” I just love this! Now adays you could tell someone what you have and most people don’t even believe you. The sign of the bookstore and the stucco plaster reminds me of when we stuccoed the gerber alexander building acrossed the street from the Lorretto Inn on old santa-fe. The Indian Market @ the square downtown was always fun to tour as the natives would put their blankets down on the sidewalk and sell their jewelry . They always had some of the nicest squash blossom turquoise necklaces ”The good stuff ”’ A person hardly ever see’s anymore . Thanks for the memories FF

    • Karen –The smoke is so thick here in kalispell and around Flat-Head lake it could choke a horse. Glacier has lost one of the most historical buildings ever and the’re worried about loosing the lake McDonald lodge. One of the wettest springs on record. Now one of the driest summers on record . This whole place is a tinder box waiting to blow up. We need some rain.

  7. I think that someone said something about the chest being buried.
    f, said in reply, something like, that he didn’t say the chest was buried. My question is, did f, ever say it was not buried ? All I can remember is that he said that he didn’t SAY it was buried. Why look on top of the ground, the chest might be under ground? Could this be??

    • Sam;

      Here is the best quote I can dig up:

      “I never said it was buried. I’ve avoided that word. I hid it. I don’t mean to imply that it isn’t buried. I just didn’t want to give that as a clue. It took me two trips in my car to hide the treasure. And I can tell you an 80-year-old man is not going to make a trip into a canyon, then come up and go down again. As for who else knows, I’m the only one. My wife doesn’t know. ”

      Hope this helps – JDA

      • I have this quote that was from another person. I do not remember where it came from so if someone knows how legitimate it is that would be helpful:

        He told me the chest is “exposed” to rain and snow, and could be scorched in a forest fire.

        • Aaron;

          Here are two quotes – neither one say “exposed” but these are the best I could come up with:

          Mr Fenn, in relation to the final resting place of the chest, which of the 4 natural elements (Earth, Wind, Water, Fire) would mostly compromise it resting? ~ James
          I know what the question is. I don’t think earth can hurt it, under the right conditions wind might affect it, it’s probably already wet, and look at what fire did to the twin towers. Nature makes her own rules, James, so I try to not be absolute when talking about her.

          The second is o n a tape:
          Q. How do you know that the treasure is going to be safe and secure where it is hidden for the next 1000 years and somebody might not build a bridge or dig or some natural event might occur that might expose it?
          A. That is always possible; forest fires, earthquakes, mudslides, floods … what you see is what you get. We have no control over that, but I think the aura of it will always be there. It is not likely, but it certainly could happen (43:20) http://www.lummifile.com/cwb/cwb20130417.mp3

          Hope this helps – JDA

  8. Well I guess Franklin is going to find the treasure today so the rest of us should quit looking. Can’t wait for Franklin and Forrest to get tpgether and reveal the nine clues to the rest of us. Then I can get back to having a real life…

    • Toughshed: I don’t see any wink emoticons, but I’m assuming you’re being sarcastic. Afraid you won’t be able to go back to your real life any time soon. I think Indulgence has another cold winter ahead.

      • Hi Blex — humorously enough, I *am* being positive. For me that is. 😉 After all, if someone else finds it, you lose, right? But realistically, I know this puzzle is very, very hard, and so I suppose it irks me just a tad when someone new comes along boasting that they’re going to find it on their first trip out after learning of the treasure just the month before. Thankfully I’m able to temper that irritation with the certain knowledge that they will fail.

        • Zaphod, statistically, I’m on your side. But even a 99.99999% CHANCE of failure is not an
          absolute guarantee of it.

        • Hi CH: certain enough that I’m not fretting over it. The only folks (that I’m aware of) that could surprise me are HMA, DG and Dal, because they at least search in the state where Indulgence resides (IMO). Oh — and Spoon. He/she has been quiet as a church mouse recently. 🙂

        • fair enough Zap – i can accept that explanation

          ( ..am quietly rooting for Dal tho, tbh – but shhh!)

          ( ..he might get all cocky, or something!! 🙁 )

          • welcome back voxpops – glad to hear that your (appreciated) humour has returned once again 🙂

            ..esp considering the impending onslaught of a long cold Brit winter 🙁

            ( ..see Franklin? – miracles CAN happen!!)

          • Why, thank you, kind sir!

            Never mind the long, cold Brit winter – this year it rained almost the entire summer. You’ve gotta laugh… or else you’d better stock up on the Prozac.

            Hope you’re having fun down under. What’s it like having a loo that flushes the wrong way round?

          • ya always welcome, my fine gentile anglo-saxio-cousin 🙂

            wait a minute?! …are you quietly implying that ‘England’ actually experiences a summer once a year ..?!

            ( ..’SUCH a big-fibber’ detected!! – prob related to Ronnie Biggs or someone!! 🙁 )

            ..fact!! 🙂

          • Shhhh! Don’t tell everyone I’m related to a notorious criminal! They won’t want to tell me where the treasure is!!


          • don’t worry vox – ya secret ancestry to the (honourable) Ronnie B is def just as safe with me, as it is with pdenver, tfs!!

            ..right pdenver? i won’t tell if youWAIT!?

            [ ..he frantically searches for that darn elusive ‘delete’ buttBANNED!!]

            [ ..TOO SLOW – admin 🙂 )

          • Hi Mark Brown: I can speak French well enough to get by, and a smattering of Spanish, but that’s about it.

            “I don’t regard this puzzle as “very, very hard” but rather as spoken in a ‘foreign’ language using familiar English words (and alphabet).”

            Oh, it’s written in Fennish, alright, so that’s a major hindrance to deciphering the poem. But that’s just the beginning, IMO.

            “And so I pondered… Dal’s 5 dz+ trips, Seeker’s endless words, etc, and still no consensus.”

            Consensus on reading the poem I think is a formula for poor solutions.

            You said that you returned to the basics (the poem) which is wise, and quickly settled on unique ideas for your WWWH and HoB. So far, so good. But do you feel you’ve got that WWWH 100% nailed down, no-question-about-it, palm-smack-to-the-head, proceed-with-confidence?

            “As others have suggested and I concur, I’d forget seeking any book hints.”

            Until you have WWWH solved, I would agree. Too many rabbit holes otherwise. But once you *do* have WWWH, it is my opinion that both books and the Scrapbooks are incredibly rich with information that will remove any doubt that you have correctly pegged WWWH.

            “I still chuckle on some, like the word that is “key” which IMO we’ve been told at least 3 times (no tin foil hat req’d)”

            IMO, Forrest has provided that keyword over 100 times, in a surprisingly broad number of ways. And I know I’m repeating myself but I see no way to solve WWWH without it, which is probably why Forrest keeps waving that olive jar in our face.

          • Zaphod,
            If you could travel back in time a hundred years and read FF’s poem how would the meaning change. I have thought about how much our language has changed just in the last 50 years. We probably couldn’t sustain a coherent conversation with someone a hundred years ago. So, I am wondering how to read the poem from the perspective of a person in the 1800’s. Food for thought from my opinion….

          • Hi Bob: you bring up an important facet — the evolution of language. There are so many words today that would have no meaning even back in WWI. Thankfully, there is less trouble going in the reverse direction, but words do evolve (not always for the better) and some wither and die from disuse.

            “So, I am wondering how to read the poem from the perspective of a person in the 1800’s.”

            Since Forrest’s words are not complex nor technological in nature, I don’t think a ’49er would read it too differently than someone today. Their problem would be in solving the clues — particularly if the answers to one or more of the clues is a proper name found on a map. Some of those names might not be 100 years old, which would make the poem unsolvable in the 19th century if a clue’s answer is based on a more contemporary name. This would be a concern for the future as well, though rectifiable because future generations should be smart enough to realize that if a map is critical, then you’d have to use one that existed at the time the poem came out.

        • Zap – do you speak any foreign language? I don’t regard this puzzle as “very, very hard” but rather as spoken in a ‘foreign’ language using familiar English words (and alphabet). So, the challenge is to learn this foreign FF language, but this should be getting easier with time due to FF growing his own…Rosetta Stone.

          I returned to this chase 2 mns ago due to a relative’s inquiry after the 2nd guy died. Prior this, I hadn’t thought of this chase in years, back when the brainiacs favored underwater in Idaho (yeah, many moons ago). Back then, I lacked the time, but I’m more freed up these days; so, I thought I’d give it another try…

          And so I pondered…Dal’s 5 dz+ trips, Seeker’s endless words, etc, and still no consensus. So, I returned to the basics (poem) and swooped on FF comments (scant in distant past). In no time, I had a suitable WWWH and HOB that were drastically different than others’, and no matter how much I ‘studied’ the blogs, I kept returning to these 2 places. Both are unique, with or without FF and his poem, but in past, I never would have considered either for solve, since both are waaay too fuzzy for poem. However, due to FF hint ‘array’ (past couple yrs), I can’t imagine any other WWWH or HOB.

          I think the basic problem many searchers suffer from is not blogging shortage, nor erroneously filtering out the ‘wrong’ stuff (tho that can be an issue), but simply trying to remember all the ‘right’ stuff to yield some valid solves (generic, specific, whatever). As others have suggested and I concur, I’d forget seeking any book hints. Per FF, focus on the poem, but don’t forget to horde his ATF hints (there’s lots of them). If these hints don’t spark your imagination, then I’d suggest a new hobby. If these hints do spark your imagination, I’d suggest looking at various maps (hints prior maps). If this sounds familiar, then I concur.

          Oddly, I cheated this ‘imagination thing’ for my solve…my fascination was ahead of my imagination. Then, all I had to do was dogmatically collect/study ATF hints and check for confirmation. I still chuckle on some, like the word that is “key” which IMO we’ve been told at least 3 times (no tin foil hat req’d) or what “halt” means. However, my current favorite is “…nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve.” (MW 2015). I love this odd ‘hint’, since if I have it right, this reduces a common “a priori” into a false premise (and nothing to do with WWWH).

          I’m still finishing my ‘correct’ solve and struggling with some words, just to pretty stuff up. Kudos guys for the word help, I was stalled on several until recently (like “slowly”) but the entire “meek” line had me choking until someone posted something about ‘sheep’; whereupon, the whole meek line aligned with “one important possibility” hint. No, it didn’t change my solve, just added a bit more confirmation (like most, I’m gaming max word count). BTW my solve has “no place for the meek” as starting somewhere between the “put in” and HOB.

          Hope I didn’t step on any toes…

          • Nice post Matt Brown;

            Only comment – your BTW – my solve has “no place for the meek” as starting somewhere between the “put in” and HOB.

            Isn’t this a bit out of place my read is that the meek place is AFTER hoB

            Put in below (south or further down stream) hoB. From there (From this point which is hoB) “it’s no place for the meek” – Just my take on the poem – Good Luck in your “Chase” – JDA

          • It seems like either way can follow the poem. If you put in below HoB and move in the direction of HoB then no place for the meek is between the two. If after you put in you are moving to no place for the meek yet away from HoB then no place for the meek is not between the two. You have to ask yourself Is there something that makes you believe that you have to go to HoB?

          • Greetings Zap – thanks for your response. Indeed, Fennish is a distinct language, but your French should give you an advantage over many here. I studied German for years, but think it and Spanish are too close to English for cracking Fennish ‘idioms’. I’ve always had many foreign friends, so I’m used to context vs ‘wrong’ wordplay.

            You’re right on FF hints regarding key word…I was thinking of just 3 (more) recent hints! And my nix the books was regarding TTOTC & TFTW (SB are a gold mine).

            Per my OP, my WWWH & HOB would have been lame during early days of chase…when many were convinced that each sentence was a clue. Likewise, even when FF released clue 1, my WWWH & HOB would have been lame. They only gained ‘legs’ thanks to later ATF hints.

            After I found my WWWH & HOB ‘sightseeing’ (online), I was weary of potential confirmation bias (aka target fixation) during confirmation process. My WWWH was easily passed, but my HOB got bogged down. Yes, I found various ATF hints for my HOB, but nothing to coincide “Brown” in any manner. However, since my ATF HOB hints were so good, I kept peeling my onion until one last layer revealed a sweet center. IMO this last layer is one too far for a Texas redneck in 2010/+, but OK if you go back a bit in time (not saying how far) and give him a popular ‘education’.

            If my solve is correct, I think many searchers will cry foul over that “one important possibility”, but FF can’t be blamed for a searcher’s false premise/s (and I doubt FF can hint this away without aiding easy solve).

            I’m starting to see a missing word after “cold”, am I hallucinating?

          • Hi Matt,

            “Indeed, Fennish is a distinct language, but your French should give you an advantage over many here.”

            To clarify my position, I don’t think foreign language knowledge will give anyone a leg-up in solving Forrest’s poem. Fennish is strictly an English variant as far as I’m concerned.

            “You’re right on FF hints regarding key word…I was thinking of just 3 (more) recent hints!”

            Ahh, very good. I originally misread your 3 as “total” rather than recent.

            “And my nix the books was regarding TTOTC & TFTW (SB are a gold mine).”

            I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss the books — if my reading of Forrest’s M.O. is correct, he doesn’t miss an opportunity to hint or tease in any of his communications.

        • “After all, if someone else finds it, you lose, right?”

          Very true, Zaphod! Ok, from that perspective, yes you are a doing a good job at being positive! 🙂

          • JDA – thanks for the nod, I really just posted my solve progress to stress the basics FF has been hammering on for some time, but many appear to dismiss. Kudos Aaron on your meek read, I concur!

    • Franklin,
      In my last search (in Montana) the bear scat and bones got my attention, too. Too bad it wasn’t treasure but the spent rifle cartridge is what I came away with. Apparently, someone had been there before me. Going back to square one. Told my college class today about the poem, the treasure and Forrest Fenn. Maybe they can figure it out…they’re young.

      • Bob

        Those young folks may find the area. They are smart and know how to optimize Google Earth. I have much more figured out now, and I am going back to my area in the morning. I’m very excited. Bob, tell me what you would do if you actually found it. This is the first time I have given this a thought. I can’t imagine all the possibilities. Have you thought about that?

        • Franklin, thanks for the response. First I would do as Forrest Fenn advised. Put the treasure in a vault and wait 30 days. I would notify Mr. Fenn of the exact solution used. I think I would not open it until Forrest was present. That would be a blast. As for the loot, I might share it with some nice folks I’ve found here on the blog. A book would be in order, hopefully with Forrest providing the introduction. There’s a lot of folks that need help right now and I would like to do that, too. What would you do if and when you find it?

          • Bob

            Those are great ideas. I have not thought it through. I just have a weird, eerie feeling that I may have to figure it out. I’ve never felt this way before. Probably a delusion 🙂


          • If you’re headed to the same area I’ll be headed on my next search, there’s no way I’m going to be able to outrace you there, Franklin. Here’s hoping that you’re going to be rushing out the door tomorrow morning towards an outhouse at a graveyard in Utah! 😉

  9. My trip has been cancelled. I’m bummed. But good luck to you Franklin. I thought about what I’d do . I would divey up 200k in 20 containers and hide them from Santa Fe to the Canadian border. Call it “Fenn’s Treasure Re-distributed. Then write a mess of small books with certain clues in them. Would love to leave a bunch of those clues to NM just to tick off the Sheriff.

  10. I’m going to try this over here..no response elsewhere…

    Are any parents with kids planing to search in the Yellowstone area around September 16th? An ABC Nightline crew will be filming there and would love to talk with someone on a family type search..
    If so, please contact me. I’ll put you in touch with the producer.

    • Maybe you’re hearing crickets because no parents with kids are going then due to school. Just a thought.

  11. Franklin, have you been to your area before – maybe some years ago? That eerie feeling could be déjà vu!

    • I was there before but I went the wrong way, from the wrong starting point. This time it will be from the correct starting point, the right way. I will make my way to where my Higher Hand has directed me. Thinking of “higher things” as I approach the Blaze. I pray I have it understood this time.

        • lol – i get what ya did there randawg 🙂

          ( .a future Calvin & Hobbs cartoonist detected!!)

          ..although, it looked abit like a beaver tbh – was that intentional or…?

      • Mr. Franklin Sir
        Hows your search going-You had asked me how I knew that I parked my car where Forrest parked his. After Forrest’s new statement about leaving his car at a Denver museum–That just confirms in my mind that my solve is still correct. I can’t believe people are dropping out after that statement.He says that is what he planned to do not what he did…Safe travels to all..Rick

  12. I just spent a couple of hour on the “tarryscant” site. WOW!!!! i found about 10 things i needed to back up my solve. THANK YOU guys who did this site. also on the previous odds and ends someone mention Omegas. we had beat that to death and were not interested in them. i was checking on something in the area of our site and BAM the Omegas jumped off the page. we had never seen them on google earth lol but there they were. i dont think Mr Fenn meant that to be a clue but maybe it is at least for us.

    • Wildbirder – you are most welcome. We are glad that you are enjoying the site!

      I am nearly done transcribing a 56 minute podcast that has some good stuff in it as well. I will post a quick note on this site when it’s uploaded.

  13. When I was a kid and used to visit London, there was often a guy walking up and down Oxford Street, wearing a sandwich board proclaiming:
    “Repent! The End Is Nigh!”

    Now, I’m not a betting man, but…

  14. Do you guys think that the Home of Brown could be as simple as the tree line? I am heading to NM this morning, will arrive there in a couple days.

    • james – i certainly think a majestic patch of established natural forest could qualify for HoB, when sighted from a boat – which could also easily explain that whole LGFI debacle, imho

      but where does the capital B factor in with your interp?

      • To me F said the treasure is not associated with any man-made structure. Also you can pinpoint locations on a map so my thoughts are trees are Brown and you put in below. Put in below the tree line then it is no place for the meek. A forest could be a scary place for a person who has never really been in one. Just my take on it!!

      • hold ya horses james!! – i sorta thought you meant ‘old mr. Brown’ who saved all twelve kids from that school-house fire, summer of ’53 ..who lived within that large nestle of woods, beside that river, down-stream from that canyon ( ..that LGFI could never know about..?)

        tbh mate.. you’re on ya own re: your forrest/brown theory – maybe i’m colour-blind, but i only ever see green

        • Evergreen, thanks CH, lol. Treeline, okay, thanks James. Now all you need is a church on a hill before intering the canyon down.
          So, at the end of Evergreen street, park in the church parking lot, head out into the canyon down until you hit the tree line. Just inside the tree line is the place not for the meek. Must be a no trespassing gate or something. Must be the third clue, lil Indi will not go. So, meek’s definition would be childlike. Makes sense to me.

    • As always, take this with a large pinch of salt…

      I think that “where warm waters halt,” “in the canyon down,” “home of Brown,” “look quickly down,” “tarry scant with marvel gaze,” “take the chest and go in peace,” “brave and in the wood,” etc., all have slightly twisted meanings that are not necessarily the ones that spring to mind in the first instance – they fit specifically with the places the poem leads you. For me, there was nothing that could be described as “generic” in the poem. So I would be wary of choosing something that might apply to many different places and scenes when considering home of Brown. And yes, CH is absolutely right to draw attention to the capital B, IMO.

  15. the the words in the poem
    filter each word though webstersdictionary1820.com
    apply the different meanings to the words in the poem
    things and meanings may surprise some. “Warn” was one of the head twisters I found. But there are many more. Good luck from my copious opinion bank

    • Thats great Bob, thanks i like ‘down’ in the websters 1828 dictionary. That Noah Webster would most certainly be appalled at the language of today, lol and roll over. Ha!

      • Kym,
        “down” is a good one and so in “warm”. Tarry is also interesting. It’s the 1828 dictionary which you have already accessed. Words and meanings have definitely changed. I haven’t checked all of them but it would be interesting to know when the meanings evolved into what we use today. That might be helpful as far as Forrest’s lingo in the late 30’s and early 40’s.

  16. (Sorry for duplicating, but I’m getting some error on the other topic)

    Almost three years ago, I entered the Chase with hopes of fulfilling a Mother’s long since deceased hopes that one of her children would understand that which she struggled to teach them. I tore through Forrest’s poem like a demon obsessed. There were moments when I felt that it laid, at my feet, completely deciphered. There have been many things in my life that I was dead sure to be true…and I was right. Recently, one of those instances arose in the culmination of Bubba’s poem. “Circumstances” kept me from validating it, which I felt was cast upon me at the cost of human life. I cannot forgive myself for that or forget what it meant within the bigger picture.

    While biding my time to strategically recover the chest when there was no one around, I was introduced to a new twist within the storyline. A foreword written by Doug Preston. In its text, he quoted one line that Forrest had told him, “The final clue, he said, would be where they found his car: in the parking lot of the Denver Museum of Nature and Science.” It is times like this in a person’s life, when they must objectively ask themselves, “What if I never had a clue about this Chase??” To be completely in the wrong State, and to not even think about a parking lot or museum, MUST, at some point, cast incredible doubt upon any searcher’s faculty.

    I’ve heard many say, “Well don’t take what that says verbatim.” I realize that they are just trying to false rationalize to stay in the game…just a little bit longer. However, I’m not willing to “fool” myself. Once I accepted that, I was able to realize just how little of an effect, I was putting on the Chase. I simply “blah blah blah” ‘d my way through three years. I made friends but also made enemies. Why do there always have to be two sides? My “redneck” mentality was showing through, and I didn’t see it. I should’ve though. I’ve never met Forrest one on one. Of over a dozen featured questions asked… all of them were turned down. There had to come a point when reality collided with me and said, “this is just not for you.”

    Well, that came today with the foreword of his new book and that one line. Fate finally told me, “You’re just not good enough,” and now… I hear it. I am not getting any younger, and if I want to truly find some sort of greatness, I have to let go of what my heart is on. So I am going to end my Chase for this treasure and focus on Alone (History Channel), and attempts to get in the competition. Since it’s season 1 first episode, I have felt like I needed to be there. I don’t know why. If I could encourage people in the pursuit of their dreams, I would tell you to give it everything your soul has to offer, BUT to understand that there comes a point, when logic will try to prove you wrong. Listen to that logic in order to save yourself undue misery.

    In closing, I’d like to thank Dal, Stephanie, and Jenny for all of their hard work in keeping this Chase blazing over the last 7 years. You’ve all been impartial and kind to me, and I appreciate it. And to the master fisherman, Forrest Fenn, I’d like to thank you for giving this lowly blue collar worker some semblance of hope and inspiration. If not for discovering your poem three years ago, I don’t know where my level of confidence would’ve led me. I am in debt to you sir. And to be quite honest… I hope you find your bracelet one day.


    Iron Will

    • Iron Will :
      A warrior never lets himself be knocked over,friend,I’m not american,but I know you have a brave spirit and a warrior,life is a game and we are always struggling to stand and always looking forward.

    • I always hate to see a real contender quit the Chase.
      You can always keep it on the back burner in case you wake in the night with a new epiphany.
      Best of luck to you in your future endeavors sir.


    • Iron will,
      it saddens me to know your stepping away from the chase. Fennboree will never be the same without you and your pies.
      But on the other hand, I understand that a person must follow what their heart says. It was a pleasure meeting you at Fennboree and a moment I’ll never forget, listening to you explain how late you were running getting ready for Fennboree.
      I hope life brings you everything you deserve. Just remember to enjoy the little things as you proceed through life…. if you ever need anything just let me know, I can usually be found on the poetry page….
      God bless
      Until next time…. see ya

    • I don’t know you, Iron Will, but you’ve always seemed like a good person to me from all that you have shared on this site. (You also gave me some good movie recommendations from the video you put together earlier this year!)

      This has only been my first year on the Chase with actual BOTG searches and I can definitely sympathize with the need to take a break from all of the emotional highs and lows after 3 full years of it for you. Keep in mind that you can always come back to the Chase after you take some time off.

      Also, I do not believe that the new information released in the newly released preface warrants giving up on whatever solve you had been turning over in your mind. The preface merely describes a piece of a plan that Forrest ended up abandoning in the infancy of the Chase, when the poem was something else entirely.

      I wish you safe travels and good luck in wherever life takes, you sir. Take care.

      • IronWill! Take a little break. Or a long one. I so enjoy your posts! Now, I think that the museum, something about it or what’s always been inside it, is a hint/clue–but not that the chest is there or nearby…the museum is not in the RMs! Amtrak, Greyhound, airport are all very close.

        • Thats right by where my old bus route went, and there is definitely not any canyon down around there to take! Lol the Zoo is there, a golf course, paddle boats, a pond ,a park, but no canyon. Right on Colorado Blvd. If its there ,id quit too! 🙂

          • Maybe… since they just found a triceratops in Thornton, CO and deposited it at said museum, it refers to 3 ways,tops, spinners, creeks, etc.. since he switched the comment from NAU to Denver museum of science and nature. Didnt FfF state that a knolege lol of geography was more important than history? Iron will, i did the same thing in 2015 and now am back, slacking, not at speed but with fresh eyes. Maybe you will too. May God richly bless you by the still waters, Kym

    • Best of luck in all that you do, Iron Will. You made great contributions to the Chase and we will be poorer for your absence.

    • Iron Will.

      Keep in mind this Fenn statement:
      “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem.”

      Do not let supposed “clues” found outside of the poem dissuade you from seeking the treasure.

    • Iron Will, this message may be too late to make much of
      a difference in your decision . . . but for what it’s worth,

      I have now spent perhaps 400 hours working on my
      solve. More than a year ago, after having spent about 300 hours working on the solve, I was confident enough to
      justify my first expensive-for-me search trip. That trip, as well as the 2 subsequent ones — all to the same creek, provided more info about the place where I believe the TC is. The visual evidence gets stronger and stronger with
      each search hike, and also with additional thinking about why I haven’t yet found the TC.

      I don’t believe that the comment about the parking lot of
      the museum is real, valid information that seriously
      relates to the actual location of the TC. I studied this
      parking lot on Google Earth, using both satellite and “street”
      views. It’s unusual for the “street” views to enable one to
      “travel” in a parking lot, fer gawrsh sakes, but in this case,
      apparently the Google driver seemed to treat the parking
      lot as a street. Anyhoo, what I expected to see was a
      statue . . . but saw none. I also looked for a shape of the property, or local features, that might appear to relate to
      the actual location of the TC. And I even thought hard
      about the street address of the museum. I’m coming up “blank” (so far) about all this, and my arrogant (but still
      very capable) mind tells me that there’s nothing in
      Preston’s statement that is supported by the reality of
      where the TC really is. I suspect that this is something
      like a last-ditch effort by FF to mislead searchers. I think
      he is very nervous, and fears that this treasure hunt will soon be over. And I think his fears are justified.

      Please don’t be misled into thinking that the TC was
      hidden anywhere near (say, within 500 miles of) Denver.
      I believe that it wasn’t. My 30+ pages of notes (“evolution
      of the solution”) explain why I so strongly believe this.

      I suggest you stay in the hunt.

      Either way, though, best of luck to you and thank you for
      all your postings.

      • Tighterfocus: I have a different read. Forrest isn’t panicking at all. He’s a master marketeer and knows that continued interaction with Fenn searchers via emails, blog posts, media interviews and even periodic new books is a tried-and-true way to maintain if not boost interest in the Chase. He has no need to deceive searchers because his poem is stumping everyone, as evidenced by the fact that people continue to search vigorously in all four states. Besides, he has said he has no desire to mislead; anyone who thinks otherwise should consider hanging it up because if you don’t trust one of his statements, why believe any of them?

        • Kudos Zap! – you covered a lot of issues in a short read devoid of fuzzy Fenn metaphors. Anyone losing their “sea legs” should read this a few times, whereupon they should be able to resume course. Oh yeah, IMO…

    • Iron Will – may your path be only per your will.

      Should that change….may your path be only per your will.

      It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

      Iron Will – your place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. Godspeed.

      Covert One

      • Those are apposite words, Covert One. In the light of the many times I’ve been so down I’ve been tempted to quit, Winston Churchill makes a fitting follow-on to Theodore Roosevelt:

        “Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.”


        “If you’re going through hell, keep going.”

      • Those are apposite words, Covert One. In the light of the many times I’ve been so down I’ve been tempted to quit, Winston Churchill makes a fitting follow-on to Theodore Roosevelt:

        “Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.”


        “If you’re going through hel!, keep going.”

      • Covert one. If these are your words – beautifully stated. If they are the words of another, I would like to know who penned them Thanks – Either way – Beautifully said – JDA

    • Iron Will–
      All the best to you! It has been a great pleasure reading your posts, and your ideas since I have been here. You really contributed a lot. Thanks so much– and may your dreams come true! 🙂

    • Iron Will, I love the show: “Alone”. I’d love to see you win that show!! While you’re “Alone”, you can come up with new ideas as to where the treasure chest is.

    • Hi Iron will i left you a note at Jenny’s blog but not sure you will see it. As for being old i am going to be 59 this year so i hope age has nothing to do with the search. I added the above after rereading your note. here’s note from Jenny’s site “May your future be your dreams. One thing I taught my son is only you can make yourself happy. Whatever you decide to do make sure it makes you happy. Best Wish to You”
      as long as i am having fun i will keep searching for tc. God bless you

  17. Someone made the comment that FF said a corner of the TC was exposed. If that’s true, does anyone know where to find that comment?

  18. Iron, Sometimes distance is just what the subconscious needs. Who knows what will bubble up in some relaxed moment and surprise you. Good luck in your new endeavors & check in from time to time, if for nothing more than to see all us losers still paddling up dry creeks. Sanity is doable only in small doses.

  19. Upthread, Iron Will wrote: “A foreword written by Doug Preston. In its text, he quoted one line that Forrest had told him, “The final clue, he said, would be where they found his car: in the parking lot of the Denver Museum of Nature and Science.”
    I very much resent this “forward” by one “Doug Preston”. His write-up regarding this “final clue” makes no sense whatsoever, and is potentially misleading, manipulative, and seemingly an attempt to make money off a book he is writing in … cooperation … with Forrest Fenn?

    Iron Will, like many searchers, has spent untold time and effort in this search, not to mention … money. The only authority for any conveyed information about the clues has presumably been Forrest Fenn. Yet iron will is ready to foreclose on the treasure hunt because he “believes” what Doug Preston is saying about the “final clue” is valid, thus thwarting all of iron will’s previous research and efforts.

    Enough with this … teasing!

    The originator of this treasure hunt needs to be aware of the goodwill that searchers have bestowed upon him the last seven years. Any attempt to mislead, deceive, manipulate, fabricate, prevaricate, distort the treasure hunt CLUES by reference to some Denver museum (as the “final clue”), by way of this “Doug Preston” needs to be dealt with promptly and with forcefulness.

    Otherwise, I fear the result may be an overall change in the goodwill among all but the most gullible searchers.

    Ken (in Texas)

    • Ken, I have a lot of sympathy with your viewpoint. As one of those who has invested a fair chunk of our retirement savings (my choice, of course), emotional stability, and my standing amongst people who know me in this hunt, I would welcome some clarification of what’s going on.

      • Dealing first with the Denver “clue.” It makes a lot of sense to me, and confirms parts of my solution. However, like the SB hints, it won’t take you to the treasure without solving the rest of the poem, IMO.

        I can’t really see it making too much difference to searchers like IW, because it’s not saying that Colorado has anything to do with the hiding place. However, it’s an odd way and time to reveal another “clue” – particularly after there were supposed to be no further pointers (safety aside), and it may throw much doubt into searchers’ minds – as seems to be already happening with a number of people. There’s a sense of shifting goalposts – even if they’re not actually moving!

        As far as my solve is concerned, it was finally completed a few weeks ago – and at last, no loose ends. There’s no way I can get back there this year, but would like to make plans for next year. Before I spend any more money on bookings, I would like to know if the treasure is still going to be there (barring anyone finding it in the meantime, of course). So I hope FF will give some sort of indication of the state of play very soon, and certainly by November 2.

    • While I am not one to lionize Fenn and sycophants leave me cold, I have to utterly refute this attack on Preston. These men owe us nothing whatsoever. While some may think the Chase is about warm and fuzzy family things, I would argue instead that it is the ultimate game of chess, played in a vast wilderness which can vanquish any of us in an instant. Unless your wits are keen, you have extraordinary perseverance and dedication, and an authentic curiosity which trumps your desire for riches and fame, stay away from this serious endeavor. Gold fever is a real malady and it has claimed countless lives. And I think many of us would have a much easier time finding an actual gold mine than this bronze chest.

      • “While some may think the Chase is about warm and fuzzy family things, I would argue instead that it is the ultimate game of chess, played in a vast wilderness which can vanquish any of us in an instant.”

        Never a truer word spoken, Stephan! I can totally relate to that viewpoint. The Chase mirrors the quests of myth and legend.

        • Regarding your other points, Stephan, again I agree that we’re not owed anything. That said, and although it will make no difference to me and my solve, what I think others might find useful is to know whether or not they’re supposed to regard Mr. Preston’s foreword as a valid clue or just a footnote in the evolution of the Chase. I “know” that it has validity, but my assertion means absolutely nothing, hence the need for some sort of clarification. That’s why I can understand where Ken is coming from (even though it seems rather intemperate).

          Beyond that, I concur with your comment that it’d be easier to find a real gold mine!

          • Oh, and for me, coming from across the pond, I just need to know that the Chase is still going to be continuing next year before I commit resources. Given everything that’s occurred this year, I would not be at all surprised if the plug were to be pulled – especially if Forrest decides to finally retire (not that I think he’s capable of that!) after the book launch.

  20. This Chase is geared towards those with a sense of adventure and a mindset that is willing to have fun while matching wits with the originator. I find it quite comical that there are folks ready to cry foul at every twist in the road. No one is being forced to participate. For those who take it too seriously and bet the farm on their endeavors…beware.
    No one ever said that this was a cake walk…in fact Fenn has repeatedly told us that. If you find yourself obsessed with the Chase and are doing things that are adverse to your well being…you are probably in it for the wrong reasons. Take a break and evaluate.
    Dr. Phil

    • Ken (not in Texas!), you make very valid points. For me, it’s not a case of crying foul, but knowing that there is at least still a playing field out there (however bumpy!).

      I’m one of those who fall into the “matching wits” category. The fun comes as part of the adventure (along with occasional deflation and exasperation), but I take my analysis and research very seriously.

      Ken (actually in Texas!) seems concerned about possible manipulation for marketing purposes. I think clarification of intent would help to allay such worries. But as I said above, IMO the Colorado “clue” should not be seen as destroying anyone’s solution on the basis of the location; there are other pointers there that will hopefully feed people’s imagination.

      • Vox…
        As the Gatekeeper, Fenn has gone above and beyond to keep folks safe and to keep the wayward ones from getting into trouble. Fenn has also been more than forthcoming in regards to his actual monetary involvement with the Chase. He remains active and gives freely to charitable causes…so…why must he answer these ridiculous self serving inquiries? He owes us nothing really.
        I only wish I was clever enough to cook up something this entertaining to keep me busy during my twilight years ! Rock on searchers….

        • Ken, again I don’t really disagree, except that I can understand the sense of frustration that people like Iron Will have felt with the latest intel. Although I think IW’s solve was way off, and maybe he was ready to quit anyway, the idea of another clue, revealed by someone other than Forrest, may have been just too much for him. I can empathize.

          • IW…Vox, is one of those folks who got in WAY over his head. Like I said…It is not mandatory to participate, nor is it mandatory to tell the world on the blogs every detail of one’s delusional search endeavors.
            And…just what “intel” are you referring to? As far as I know/understand…Fenn has just announced a new book…and that is IT. Folks can infer whatever they choose…but that does not make it so…
            How’s the weather in the UK?

          • Yes, IW was very emphatic! But he was still one of those prepared to put BOTG.

            The intel is the “final clue” from the foreword. Some people are already beginning to latch onto some of the hints, but they are the kind of things that are more confirmatory rather than revealing, IMO.

            The weather here is better than in Barbuda, Cuba and FL. Let’s hope the next week proves less destructive than anticipated.

        • Yes, agree that this should not be an activity that draws in any way from your life; financial, family, or your personal well being.
          It is a game. When it is no longer fun, give it up.
          In my opinion.

    • Dr. Ken Phil…
      You said it better than I would have tried… “No one is being forced to participate.”
      Although some apparently think their failed attempts, their moneys spent, their hours endured are the responsibility of an other or others… not excepting the blame to be all theirs alone… but would rather throw it out here for their own personal pity party and ranting stage.
      Sad part… There are others that give those whiners all the cake and candy and attention they can suck up.

      Ken from TX ~ ‘The originator of this treasure hunt needs to be aware of the goodwill that searchers have bestowed upon him the last seven years.’
      {holy crap on a cracker}
      I’m calling BS here… what we all have is the same information from the start. The same opportunity . Information that we have been explained, by the author’s [20 yrs of work,] will lead us to the end. Only the “gullible searchers,” are the ones who think they ‘know’ and then cry foul when reality hits, that they didn’t ‘know’ squat.

      It’s called a challenge for a reason.
      The challenge was meant to get the kids out of the game rooms and into nature. Unfortunately it brought a few babies along as well.

      • Seeker, to state that this is a costly endeavor is not to whine or ask for pity, it is merely to recognize that some of us take searching very seriously, and the intensity of focus we bring to bear also has a cost. “Dr. Phil” is right to point out the danger of this getting out of hand.

        I completed my 14th search recently, and I have discovered what I needed to. I have no problem with the challenge – that is what I enjoy the most – and I believe I’ve met it with spirit and conviction. There are not many “babies” who would have put themselves through some of the scenarios I’ve encountered. I’m actually amazed I came back to tell the tale from one or two trips. Others have had similar experiences, I know.

        • Vox,
          You can sugar coat it with lemonade icing if ya like.. but when it’s stated something need to be done promptly and forcefully because of personal cost and time invested… That’s whining in my book. When stated that another, other than Fenn states something that Fenn should be held responsible is complaining at its worse.

          When others over the years post their marriage is on the rocks or they borrow money the can’t afford etc etc etc… It call a sickness of the obsessed and lack of self control… Especially when calling foul, blame anything for thier own foolish losses.

          Oh, right.. imo.

          • Seeker, I can only speak for myself here. If you must know, given your very personal attack, my mentioning cost is not whining but a certain amount of guilt, given my personal circumstances and location. It preys on my mind a little, which as a psychiatrist might point out often comes out in the choice of one’s words. But I repeat what I said above: THIS IS MY CHOICE.

            I don’t need anything done about the Preston foreword because it has zero impact on me and my solve. However I can understand someone getting frustrated if they don’t know what’s “real” and what isn’t. Hence my understanding Ken’s (from Texas) point. As I pointed out, I just need to know that we’ll all still be here next year.

            You said: “When stated that another, other than Fenn states something that Fenn should be held responsible is complaining at its worse.”

            I have not stated that at all. Neither do I believe it.

            You also state: “When others over the years post their marriage is on the rocks or they borrow money the can’t afford etc etc etc… It call a sickness of the obsessed and lack of self control… Especially when calling foul, blame anything for thier own foolish losses.”

            I blame no one for my losses – and my marriage is just fine, thank you. I just have to weigh my input to the Chase against what my wife expects and deserves – and sometimes that’s tough. Others who live closer and are wealthier have to worry a little less. In the past I have commented to FF that the redneck from Texas would need to own an oil well to complete the Chase, but that’s an acknowledgment of the level of complexity involved.

            I would admit to a degree of obsession, but that’s what’s kept me going. I have suffered ridicule and self-doubt as a result of my participation in the Chase, but many, many gains. You have no idea what I have achieved, or really anything about me.

            I actually think you’re a very clever and insightful person, Seeker, but would prefer you apply that to finding the treasure rather than attacking me.

          • Vox..
            There’s no personal attack at you… You responded to my comment of the two Ken’s posting.

            I simply responded to the comment.

          • Thanks for the clarification, Seeker. Sorry if I misconstrued what you meant. We’re not even in the “silly season” yet, so I don’t know how I’m going to make it through to next summer…

          • Funny stuff…this Chase business !
            Vox…years ago I had a part time neighbor who was a Psychiatrist for psychiatrists. He lived in a 3 room(separate connected structures) tree house that he built next to my place. The first thing I remember about him was all of the books he crammed into those rooms. There are a bunch of funny stories about him that have stuck with me all these years…the funniest was our discussion about “compartmentalization” and coping mechanisms. I miss Bill and his steady wit…

          • Sounds like a one-of-a-kind guy, ken!

            (At first, I read that as part-time psychiatrist, rather than part-time neighbor, and it made me think of Peanuts!)

  21. We just uploaded our transcription of the 56 minute long “Everything is Stories” podcast. FF discusses the possibility of an IOU in the chest. Toward the end, he offers what he thinks it his most important piece of advice at the time. (August 2013).

    Happy Searching!

      • For the lazy. The interview is great! Thanks for tarryscant.com Cris!

        FENN: Yeah, I have some advice. Read the book. And then study the poem. Over and over. Read it over and over. Maybe even memorize it. And then go back and read the book again looking for hints that are in the book that are going to help you with the clues that are in the poem. That’s the best advice that I can give. You have to find out – you have to learn where the first clue is. They get progressively easier after you discover where the first clue is.

  22. So I slept on the whole Denver museum thing.
    What if parking there was a hint from Forrest suggesting that the finder should think about displaying the treasure chest at the museum for a short time. I am sure that would please him and all the kids that would get to see it. I know I would try and go peer at Indulgence. Just ponderings from West Yellowstone.
    It’s looking like we will have one more week of 70 degree weather before Fall temperatures kicks in.
    Stay safe everyone!

  23. Some statements from Forrest well worth remembering:

    “If a person reads the poem over and over and are able to decipher the first few clues in the poem,they can find the treasure chest”

    “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem”

    My advice is to ignore any other statements that are not directly from Forrest, and even then, to be wary about using unless they are definitive, such as “The treasure chest is not under water.”

    • Tom –
      I agree with your take on this completely. We’ve been told over and over not to accept the words that others attribute to Forrest as truth without the possibility of error. Then, here we go…Doug Preston, a very popular author of fiction, writes about something he believes Forrest said somewhere between 7 and 20 years ago and most of us are willing to accept it as if Forrest himself said it yesterday.

      Even if it’s correct and Forrest did say it, we don’t know the context he was most likely talking about when he was planning to die with the chest…circumstances surrounding the treasure hunt were far different then, than they are today. The poem was different, but we don’t know how. Forrest had a far different mindset about the chest when he believed he was dying of cancer than he did in 2010, but we can only guess at the differences.

      In my mind this does little to change the chase for me except at how I look at the clues in the poem. I’ll get to that in a separate comment…but first…

      Does anyone else recall the story by Tony Dokoupil that first appeared in the August 20th, 2012 edition of Newsweek Magazine? Newsweek was trying all kinds of things to increase readership and attract a younger audience…but failing…In addition to the printed magazine story they also published a subscription iPad version of the story that contained additional information…they also had Tony on video a couple of times doing “video” stories for the Daily Beast that had additional information…all of these were available as links on the original digital version of the Newsweek Magazine story written by Tony.

      I remember that I bought an iPad and “subscribed” just so I could read the additional iPad story.I found it irritating that they made me pay for additional information in addition to my Newsweek subscription…apparently I was not alone in my displeasure.

      I have never been a follower of Dokoupil. In fact, I rather loath him as a journalist. He apparently did a lot of “inventing” in his various iterations of the story with Forrest. Forrest was so upset about the untruths and misquotes that he wrote the publisher of the magazine, Tina Brown to complain…That year, the December edition was their last printed edition. Hmmmm….

      The relationship between the Dokoupil story and the Preston forward is going to cause some concern…but for me it takes away…erases as it were… any concern I might have for the Denver Museum statement…and brings into sharper focus the point that you cannot put much faith in what others attribute to Forrest’s own mouth. I certainly would not build a whole solution around these second hand statements…nor give up the chase because “someone said Forrest said….”

      Look at the following blog page to read what Tony Dokoupil said in the iPad version of his Newsweek story…about Forrest being concerned about leaving his car…I wrote the following piece for the blog in September of 2012.


      If you’d like to talk more about this car business I am forming a therapy group that will meet at my house on Tuesday evenings to discuss the nine clues…or is it ten? Bring hankies!

        • fenngshui,

          One definition of “sedan” :

          An enclosed chair for conveying one person carried between poles by two or more porters.

          Porters, as in a train?


    • I couldn’t agree more Tom.B I’ll stick to the original book and poem. Don’t recall mention of Denver or their museum in the book. I’m pretty sure FF donates artifacts to the Museum. and that’s probably the extent of that. Scotty

  24. Who wants what more…

    Preston needing someone to pick up his movie option,


    Forrest needing someone to find TC before he passes.

    If all one truly needs is the poem, a good map, and maybe subtle hints in TTOFC, then the new book and the forward are purely superfluous. If there weren’t a treasure hidden, would this book sell? Would anyone know or care who Preston is?

      • SL Denver is butted up against the Rockies to the east and is over 5000ft elevation. I doubt that anyone could seriously think FF hid the treasure in a big city. But since the Rockies are right there, it doesn’t take long to be in the woods. I’m in Grand Junction. We’re butted up against the Rockies on the western side. Takes me about 45 minutes to be in dense forest at about 10,500ft. Not to crush anyone’s dreams. but I’ve yet to hear a viable clue that could lead me anywhere near that madhouse. Denver.

      • SL,

        I disagree with your inference that Denver is not in the search area because of this quote in SB 78.

        “Forth, there is some geographical dispute about whether Bandelier National Monument is in the Rocky Mountains but since it is shown on the map in my Too Far to Walk book it must be considered within the search area.”

        Denver is on the map too so it must be considered as well.


        • The northern boundary of Bandelier is slightly over 8 miles north of the northern limit of Santa Fe, which puts it just outside of the search area. I spent some time trying to figure out why FF made the 8.25 mile north of Santa Fe statement. After looking at maps and seeing that Bandelier barely falls within this limit I think it’s to keep searchers out of Bandelier which is an amazing, but also very fragile area.

        • SL is correct: Denver is in the high plains and not in the Rocky Mountains.

          Couple that with Forrest’s stated original intent of the Chase to get people off their smartphones and into the great outdoors. It is ridiculous to consider an urban area (or suburban area for that matter) as a viable search location for the treasure and obviously goes against the very Spirit of the Chase, IMO.

          I don’t even know why I am taking the time to write this. If anyone really thinks that the treasure is hidden somewhere in Denver, then by all means, search away.

          • Blex,

            Please don’t shoot the messenger. I was simply pointing out what the man himself said. Do I think it’s in an urban area? No I don’t, but that doesn’t mean I don’t give such an area a good look if something interesting takes me there.

            In the end, this is just another one of those darn contradictions we each need to weigh and make a decision how to proceed that best fits our Chase.

            Please take care………pinatubocharlie

          • I hear you, Pinatubocharlie. I can’t, and won’t, rule anything out completely until the Chest is found.

            Keep in mind though that the Rio Grande River has also appeared prominently on the map from the beginning and Forrest has since completely crossed that location off the list of possibilities.

            Denver is by far the largest, loudest, most bustling city shown on the map of the entire search area. It’s certainly a great city with lots of wonderful attractions, but IMO why spend time searching there when the entire vast natural beauty of the Rockies lies before you just waiting to be explored? As I said, Chasers can look wherever they please, but IMO those who avoid looking in the Rockies are cheating themselves out of some truly wonderful experiences.

    • Doug Preston is a best selling author. Don’t you think Forrest okayed the foreword?
      Don’t blame the messenger. This whole thing is some kind of clue. Doesn’t necessarily mean it is in Colorado. It will certainly help the museum.
      Whatever it is Forrest has agreed to the foreword.

  25. Something I’m curious about is how many BOTG trips people think is necessary before retrieving the treasure.

    FWIW, I think that unless you’re some sort of whizz-bang genius, it takes a minimum of around four or five (I’m way past that!). I say this because I don’t think you can rationalize where the final spot is until you’ve discovered where it’s not. Paradoxically, that doesn’t necessarily mean you’re in the “wrong” place, nor that you have to discover something on the ground to point you in the right direction, although if you do, it helps (IMO)!

    • For me, it has been 20 months, 15 trips, and one last trip planned before winter. I have learned something every trip – every trip has helped me understand – not only where it is NOT, but a lot more about where it IS- – – I hope – JMO JDA

    • Voxpops said “Something I’m curious about is how many BOTG trips people think is necessary before retrieving the treasure.”

      As far as “necessary”, it depends on how far through the poem your solution takes you. If you have a correct solution through the blaze before you go BOTG, then I would expect you to find the treasure on the first trip (and yes I do think it’s possible to have a complete solution prior to BOTG). I think there is a slim chance that you could find the treasure on the first trip if you have the correct solve through home of Brown, and start walking in the correct direction along the creek that should be nearby. I say slim because you would be relying on identifying the blaze without pre-determination of what it is. Otherwise, it might take multiple trips to find the blaze even if your home of Brown is correct. This is the situation, I think, that favors those that can make multiple trips to search. Living far from the area, I personally would not make a trip to search unless I had a complete solve. That’s the only to be relatively sure that the starting location is correct.

      • Tom B, I believe you have under-estimated FF. Even
        determining what the blaze IS (not to mention WHERE it is) appears to — so far — be beyond the ability of most searchers who have the prior clues correct. And after solving CORRECTLY for the blaze, with all the needed understanding relating thereto, there’s still a noticeable amount of subsequent guesswork involved in order to find the

        I think a few search trips (say 4) is the quantity that
        would reasonably be necessary even for a searcher
        who IS a whizz-bang genius.

        • Actually, there is no guessing if the blaze is correct, the remaining clues direct you to a specific site. “Precise”, just as Forrest said. Again, my solution may not be correct, but it points to a specific location.

    • I think 4-5 IF you are in the right area. I think that those who solved the first 2 clues had to go back and re-examine their solves. I think that those who may have solved 4 clues may have studied further and still missed something that threw them off the right track. Some may move onto another solution, while others continue to analyze the poem with confidence that they are in the right area. JMO

      • I tell you what amazes me though, is that no one talks about F’s comment about someone deciphering all of the clues, but not in the right order.

          • He said it in the Q & A after the viewing of the last movie. Toby recorded it, but Forrest didn’t want it shown. I saw it on YouTube. I don’t know if is still available.

          • JDA: it’s from The Lure post-screening Q&A session. Here’s my transcript of the Q&A from that video:

            Q: “Has anyone determined the nine clues and what they represent?”

            A: “Well, there’s about 250,000 people that ~think~ they have. And, uh, I don’t know that anybody has … has … has told me the clues in the right order. I think that part of the problem is they don’t … they don’t focus on the first clue. If you don’t know where the first clue is, you might as well stay home because you’re not … you’re not going to find the treasure chest. You can’t go out looking for the blaze and expect to find the treasure chest. There’s ten billion blazes out there. So you have to start with the first clue and let it take you to the blaze.”

          • Thx, Zap. Maybe someone could ask F a question in order to clarify that issue at the book signing event.

        • That is an interesting conundrum, JBL. How would you reconcile that with the notion that the clues are contiguous?

          • Since I’m hoping that I am the one that had the clues out of order, I’m hoping that I mentioned the word South for the word down in the phrase – take it in the canyon down, rather the phrase – look quickly down. Ok, here’s something else – I had sent my solution to him and had named the mountain and then the creek, but you have to go up the creek to get to the mountain. I later mentioned my transposition error in another email. All of that was before his comment. I got all excited, but alas, I still don’t have the chest. So, those are merely examples of how the clues could have been sent to him, but not in the right order.

      • Tom B and JBL;

        Forrest deems to take a differing view:

        In an interview, a reporter named Petersen asked Forrest, “In your mind, who would be the best person or family to find this treasure?”
        “A family that is joined together and gone out lookin’ for the treasure four or five or ten or 50 times,” he replied. “Take a tent and sleeping bags and your fishing pole and go out looking. That was my primary motive.”

        1, 4 or 5 seems to be a “scant” # – I believe Forrest is correct on this one. JDA

        • JD. I think you are misreading that statement. Sounds to me like he is talking about the type of person or persons he would LIKE to see find the treasure. There are other quotes, such as one that says move with confidence. I fully expect the treasure to be found on someone’s first trip to their complete solve.

          • True, he IS talking about a type of person or family, but he also said,”and gone out lookin’ for the treasure four or five or ten or 50 times” That is hard for me to misread. Nothing is keeping you from keeping your biases – but at least be willing to look at Forrest’s words at face value. Just my feeble minded opinion – JDA

          • JD:

            I will let Forrest respond to your assertion:
            “The person who finds the treasure will have studied the poem over and over, and thought, and analyzed and moved with confidence. Nothing about it will be accidental.

          • In simpler terms, if you ain’t going out to get it, you ain’t going to find it. Lookin won’t get the job done. My opinion unless the finder proves me wrong.

          • “On their first trip to their COMPLETE solve” Maybe you are correct. – COMPLETE or CORRECT solve. I have had a LOT of COMPLETE solves, but so far, I guess none have been CORRECT.

            All I need now is a CORRECT COMPLETE solve I guess. Good luck in finding it on your first time out – or 20th or 50th – JDA

          • Tom

            A couple of questions – If I may.

            1) Have you ever been in the Rocky Mountains?
            2) Have you looked at your local area on Google Earth, and compared it to reality? BIG difference isn’t there?
            3) How can you assume that what you see on maps, or on Google Earth will in ANY way be similar to what you find with BotG?

            It is good to have confidence – I go with confidence on every trip I have made – except the first trip which was just to familiarize myself with the local terrain.

            Confidence comes with Seeing and Knowing the country you are about to search.

            As I said earlier, I wish you the best. I can not wait to read your exploits. JDA

          • JD,

            I approached the problem differently. My initial focus was exclusively on the poem, trying to determine the meaning of clues before I went to a map or satellite view. Once I had solved the clues to my satisfaction, I then went to satellite maps to match my clue solutions to specific map locations. I think this is the best approach, but we will see.

          • Good approach, but you did not answer my questions. I encourage you to answer them. How you answer them will tell us a lot about your approach – especially questions #1 and #2. Thanks – JDA

          • Tom;

            I am not knocking you approach, just trying to understand it. Forrest has said that clue #1 is “Begin it wwwh and take it in the canyon down, Not far, but too far to walk.” No need to figure this one out, Forrest gave it to you. My question is, without looking at a map, how can you pick a wwwh spot, see if it has a canyon associated with it, see how far it goes (NF,BTFTW) and then find a place you can “put in” that is below a possible hoB? Without a map, I just do not see how you could have answered these questions. Can you help me to understand? – THANKS – JDA

        • Hi JDA – This is in my opinion, and the statement about 4,5,10, or 50 times is a hint to the spot. The poem is not going to be deciphered by searching or taking “X” number of trips to go look. You will have to figure out all the clues to the places before you ever leave home to arrive at a very small spot to find the chest. Although the spot is small, there have been 7 to 8 years for things to change a little since the chest was placed in the Rocky Mountains.

    • One if you get it right the first time. Two if you were right but screwed it up. Three if you were partially right the first time. Yea, I think I could hit 5or 6 going like this. lol I can honestly say that although I’ve been out 8 times, only one was aimed at my original solve. The others were exploratory. And all in Colorado within 300 miles.

    • Totally agree. Easy for me to be with you in this thinking since I’ve been to my solve area 3 times now, and I am still not solving the poem. I believe I have several clues figured out, but things we see on GE may or may not actually be there on the ground. I found a blaze on GE which simply is not there on the ground. I’ve done some research on the Landsat imagery and data integration which leads me to believe some images may be out of place. Before this experience I didn’t think that was possible. It may take me 5 or 10 times before I find the real Blaze. Think like Forrest Fenn, not like me !!

  26. Good points Aardvarkbark…. Either FF wanted to get kids off the sofa (I don’t buy it), or he wanted them to get to know & love nature and become environmental voters (I buy that), or he wanted to buy fame, attention, legacy (I buy that one too).

    I do think ff may have mentioned the Denver Museum to Preston… testing the idea on him, but not his true place for any 10th & final clue.

  27. I was feeling down, so much so I had to down a shot of Tequila to get moving. I had to go down to the store to look for a down jacket to wear to the football game. My team’s so bad they only made one first down last week. The game was at Riverside Downs. If you don’t know where that’s at you can look it up.

  28. JDA,

    Hopefully this will explain my approach better. I first determined a specific home of Brown based on the poem. I also deduced that where warm waters halt is a hot spring. I then went to satellite maps to locate my specific home of Brown and I searched for a hot spring in the general area. When I found one about 10 miles from my home of Brown, and there happened to be a connecting canyon, that gave me encouragement since the map was matching up to the poem, for the home of Brown that I had chosen. I had already deduced from the poem that at home of Brown, there should be a creek that would course substantially uphill and would serve as runoff for cold mountain water. So, again on satellite view, I looked for a creek at my home of Brown that would follow such a course. When I found a creek that fit that description at my home of Brown, I was further encouraged that my poem solution is correct. Next, I followed the creek on satellite view and looked for a blaze. I had not pre-determined the blaze based on the poem. My assumption was that the blaze could be seen on satellite view. When I found something unusual along the creek I was following,I suspected that it might be the blaze. Then, when I looked up the meaning of the “blaze” I found on satellite, I was convinced. Everything fit. I was able to “marry” the poem clues to a map. Whether I am correct or not is yet to be seen. Only a BOTG to my suspected treasure site will give the answer. I am hoping to make that happen before this year is over. One trip will do it for me, whether the treasure is there or not.

    • Your approach seems to work – I guess. You seem to have skipped over – the meek place – the END is ever drawing nigh – No paddle up your creek, heavy loads and water high places, but am sure you skipped them for brevity sake.

      My approach was similar, but opposite. “In the wood” told me where to look for my wwwh. I then had to look at a map to find the wwwh. Once found, I had to look at a map to see if there was a canyon that I could “Take down” – there was.

      How Far? NF,BTFTW – like you I found a hoB about 10 miles downstream. I found a “put in” place below hoB. From there, I had to look on a map to figure out the “No meek place”. I rather doubt that anyone could logically come up with a “No meek place”, and for it to then “Just happen” to show up somewhere on or near your creek that is coming from a higher elevation. If this happened to you, you ARE ONE LUCKY GUG!!! As I said, good luck guy. JDA

      You still have not answered my questions – I wonder why? JDA

      • JD. I may indeed be lucky. “No place for the meek” became obvious as I was looking at the map and following the creek from my home of Brown. And, cold and in the wood became obvious once I had located my blaze on satellite view. It all fell into place. Again, time will tell if it’s correct or not.

        As for your questions, (1) I have no first-hand experience in the Rockies. (2). I have very limited experience with satellite view. My main use of satellite in my solution was to aid me in identifying the blaze and in measuring distance and elevation.

        • All I can say is that the “Real World” looks nothing like what GE displays it as looking. I suggest that you go to GE – look at some areas fairly near where you live – hilly, mountainous, creeks, rivers – what-ever – – – then go to that area and see if you can navigate from point A – B – C etc. Become VERY familiar with using GPS coordinates that relate to points on GE – THEN,
          maybe you will be able to approach the Rockies. I have lived in or near the Rockies for most of my 75 years and I am AMAZED at how different the “Real World” is from GE.

          Again, good luck. It has taken me 20 months and 15 actual BotG trips to get to where you feel you are. TRY to STAY SAFE if and when you actually put BotG – JDA

          • I’m feeling pretty good about it but others have said the same and come up empty. I’ve adhered to the “keep it simple” principle. This will be a good test.

      • JDA I actually found the creek in the canyon before I realized that I had passed the hoB a few miles back. The backtracked and found the WWH. The strange thing was that If it hadn’t started raining so hard, I would not have been within 20 miles of that spot. I was heading for a motel. Lucky? maybe hand of God? I could only hope. Maybe he’ll help me solve the rest of the puzzle while he’s at it.

    • Hi Tom B.:

      “I first determined a specific home of Brown based on the poem.”

      I think this is a risky approach. Back in April 2014, Dal had a reply to Clayton indicating “Forrest said: You need to start at the beginning. You need to figure out where warm waters halt. He said this because many searchers were skipping directly to home of Brown. That is the point at which many folks were starting. ..because (I suppose) it is easier. He was trying to get them to think about the first clues rather than the middle… And then I believe he went on to say that the clues are consecutive and we need to figure them out in the order they are, in the poem…”

      I think trying to solve the poem by figuring out home of Brown is ignoring Forrest’s advice, just as much as is trying to solve the blaze first. There are “10 billion blazes out there” and I would hazard to guess there are at least a million homes of Brown. So I think trying to short-circuit the clues is only going to lead you to disappointment.

      • The point is, you need to know both where warm waters halt AND home of Brown. They are inseparable. Forrest is right. You need to know where warm waters halt because that validates home if Brown, and vice versa. Warm waters is the first clue and starting point on the map, but that does not mean it has to be solved first, in my opinion. Forrest wrote the poem, so he obviously didn’t have to try solving it with no prior knowledge of the clues.

      • TomB: so you resist Forrest’s advice and think that HoB will lead you back to WWWH — more specifically, that they can be solved in either order. Do you not see the risk in this assumption? Forrest has made it clear the first clue should be solved first: “I cannot imagine anyone finding the treasure without first identifying the starting point, although many seem to be preoccupied with later clues.” I for one believe him, and there is no way anyone would figure out ~my~ WWWH by first selecting a HoB, nor is there any way anyone would figure out my WWWH w/o first figuring out the keyword. It is only solvable in one direction.

        • Zap;

          I agree with,”…and there is no way anyone would figure out MY wwwh by first selecting a hoB”

          I do not agree with,”nor is there any way anyone would figure out my WWWH w/o first figuring out the keyword.”

          I do agree, It is only solvable in one direction.”


          • As I mentioned In my last post, My solve has the canyon down below the home of Brown. The canyon has the creek running through it with nice big boulders and high water. So when I’m taking the canyon down, I’m still putting in below the hoB. I think I learned what the “key word” was along the way.. And it makes a whole lotta sense to the book and the poem.

        • Yes, I can resist Forrest’s advice on this. Writing is mot the same as solving. I will leave it to you to deduce the difference.

        • TomB: I understand the difference between the skills needed to design a puzzle and those required to solve one. If you’re confident that you can outsmart Forrest and find a back door into solving it, by all means knock yourself out. Just consider that Forrest had 15 years to construct his poem. I think you will have a hard enough time solving it in the intended fashion, let alone trying to solve it out of order.

          • Question: “Do you think that someone who is sure about the location of the home of Brown could reverse-engineer where warm waters halt?”

            Fenn: “… sure you could …”

          • Tom – i vaguely remember that quote, and am confident that Zap is searching for it as we speak 🙂

            ..but it does conflict somewhat with Forrests ‘if ya ain’t nailed WWWH, get ready to play Cannasta’ comment tho

            Zaps – what a minute, i’m confused??
            so…if the (your) keyword isn’t in the poem, and ya NEED the keyword to unlock the puzzle, and all you (also) need is the poem and map (poss digital, probably) apparently

            then…..what does that mean??
            (that’s the part where i’m confused 🙂 )

          • Curious Hobit.
            Exactly! Fenn has made conflicting statements. That’s why I say to question what you think is absolute. Concentrate on the poem. Don’t let yourself be distracted by statements made after the fact by Fenn, unless they ARE absolute.

          • Tom – yes, some things seem conflicting at first glance (from a searchers side of the fence), but i do agree with Zap about WWWH being a vital portal to opening the puzzle, and maybe you”re lucky if you have managed to reverse-eng. from HoB to the correct WWWH – if so, then well done

            ..but i’m reading the tea-leaves at mo, and i can see a very long happy career playing Cannasta on your future horizon 🙂

          • It’s interesting to see people fall into the trap of believing something is fact when there are contradictory statements.

          • Hi CH: I know at first glance my whole keyword thing sounds contradictory: how can my keyword not be a poem word, while at the same time everything you need to solve the poem is in it? Answer: my keyword *is* in the poem… you just have to figure out how to find it. Steganography.

      • Tom B – I agree that the 3 major poem clues are WWWH, HOB, and blaze, but I still haven’t found anything within the poem that suggest or verifies any of these. IOW, despite my nearly complete solve, I still lack any type of story-theme ‘subplot’ that unites them. Granted, FF started with hidey spot and ‘drew map’ from there, but why did he choose…his…particular WWWH and HOB? I can only conclude that FF (somehow) relates to both clues, and that they’re waaay beyond convenient landmarks.

        Per my other recent posts, my WWWH is now a nobrainer due to numerous co-lateral ATF hints, but I’d be only wildly guessing if by poem alone. Likewise with my HOB, despite fuzzy dreams of path scale shrinking during clue progression. In retrospect, I think HOB clue is soooo hard that it should keep most folks at home – unless just out fishing.

        zap – I think we have the same WWWH, how you doing on HOB??? I’m still teary-eyed from peeling my onion…while gaming the last 2 stanzas.

        • MattB: our WWWH’s are surely different since we search states at opposite extremes of the colored zone of the map.

          • zap – indeed so, and found out while rereading upthread prior your 10:51 pm post. Now I’m wondering if both our WWWH are ‘similar’ (wink-wink) despite now knowing we also have different key words, and I’m clueless what yours is. Hard to believe this chase could have so many combinations.

    • Tom, do you mind clarifying your last sentence? You said
      “One trip will do it for me . . .”

      One trip will do WHAT for you?

      Thanks in advance. Good luck in your solving and searching.

      • I have a complete solve. If the treasure is not there, then I will not be trying to “rework” my solution. I will either start over with a new solve or stop looking.

  29. I had a weird experience in my exploration yesterday. I had originally found a WWWH, then I found a wonderful home of Brown just about 2.5 miles away, and there was a canyon stretching along the entire way. I decided to search for a blaze below the home of Brown, and finally found one. It was a fairly big rock outcropping in the shape of an arrow. Yes, an arrow, which made me jump up and cheer. In fact, following the poem in a step by step fashion, it seemed to end at this blaze. Ok so to make it even more enticing, this blaze is within a big Omega formed by the canyon. That is why I went again, for my 3rd visit to my solve area. (the first 2 times I went in too far below, and had not identified the canyon correctly).

    Then after we had followed the road to where we put in below the home of Brown, we made our way through the course to the blaze. Then, we both stood there in disbelief. The blaze was not there. We checked our position to be sure we were in the precise area, and we were. The arrow shaped rock outcropping was not there, but Google Maps showed us standing right on it. Not there, period!

    So we did explore all around that area since we were there, so as not to waste our time but there was nothing. Anyway, it turns out that the Landsat images we are seeing are apparently over 2 years old. The data from several Landsats are integrated in a big data transfer which will again happen this October 2017, and the images will be brought to current quality and accuracy. It is my theory that the rock outcropping I see there to this day, which is really not there, has been laid in there by an error in the data transfer which happened over 2 years ago.

    Best explanation I can come up with. We triple checked our position and the rock blaze simply was NOT there. Amazing and frustrating. So, don’t trust every detail you see on Google Earth guys.

    What was there instead of my blaze? A thicket like Dogpatch. Sticker bushes, sage, tall grass, dirt and nothing of value at all. Felt like a jungle all over that area.

  30. Popping in here (still volunteer dispatching, but now for Irma…) to communicate a plea for help for Montana, which came from someone living there: “doesn’t anyone care about MT?” :'( He said “The fire crews over in Missoula County needs volunteers who will pack lunches, waters and care packages for crews around the state. I also know that there could be food served and prepped for people who may have been ordered to evacuate in Bitterroot and Seeley Lake areas.” So anyone who can’t search their area in the RMs now because of all the fires everywhere, consider helping out if nearby, or pass this on through your social media, whatevers (I’m not on social media…).

    I’ve come to know you all as caring people, and people who care about the natural world. I’ve come to love MT, WY, CO, NM through my searches, and this is just heartbreaking to me. Thank you.

  31. Upthread, dal wrote: “I certainly would not … give up the chase because ‘someone said Forrest said …”.

    But that’s exactly what searcher “Iron Will” is doing, when “Iron Will” said upthread: “Well, that [realization] came today with [Preston’s] forward [to Forrest’s] new book and that one line [“The final clue … would be where they found his car: in the parking lot of the Denver Museum …]. Fate, finally told me ‘You’re just not good enough, and now … I hear it … So I am going to end my Chase, for this treasure … I’d like to thank Dal, Stephanie, and Jenny for all of their hard work … over the last 7 years.”
    The problem, as poster “voxpops” says is that this “Forward” conveys the impression of shifting goal posts for searchers to have to adjust to, external to the Poem.

    My defending the genuine, heartfelt feelings of someone like “Iron Will”, who gives up the hunt for unsolicited “information” from an opportunistic writer trying to insert himself into a pop culture phenomenon, as this Preston person is doing … my defending “Iron Will” may sound “comical” to “ken” or part of some “pity party and ranting” to “seeker”. But the fact of the matter is that searchers have spent a lot of time, effort, and money in search of a chest wherein the only clues, supposedly, are those that are in a poem contained in TTOTC.

    As such, it is disingenuous for the originator of this treasure hunt to align himself with a writer who now wishes to shift the goal posts of the clues by making reference to a supposed “clue” about a Denver museum as the “final clue”.

    If the Denver museum “final clue” isn’t a valid clue … why even bring it up?

    Searchers have a right to know where the goal posts in this “game” are; they have a right to know where valid clues can be found. They have a right to have those clues maintain consistency over time.

    To say that it’s FF’s game and he can change the rules to suit himself or to change the rules to enhance the sale of a new book is not encouraging.

    At least 2 searchers have already died playing by the rules that Forrest Fenn established AT THE BEGINNING, specifically, that the clues were contained in the Poem, and not in some “Forward” to a new book, submitted some 7 years after the “game” began.

    Sorry, but I don’t have much respect for anyone who would be DISMISSIVE of a hardworking searcher’s decision, as “Iron Will” has made, to call it quits and blame himself, when said searcher encounters some unexpected “clue” that pops up in some new book.

    How many more of these new “clues”, that may or may not be valid, are searchers going to be subjected to in the future?

    And I am keenly aware that posters here have an innate bias toward everything, and I mean everything, associated with Forrest Fenn. So there will be a tendency to defend Preston’s “Forward” in this thread (and that … other … thread), and continue posting sweet-nothings in these blogs as if nothing has changed.

    As for me, yeah, I’ll continue working on the puzzle and trying to identify the location of the chest, because I am convinced it’s out there. But I will think twice about doing any expensive, potentially dangerous, BOTG in the field. And I sure as heck won’t be participating in any book signing on November 2nd.

    To “Iron Will” … please reconsider. You have been an asset to this treasure hunt, and I would hope that you would continue the Chase. I have always enjoyed reading your comments.

    Ken (in Texas)

  32. Ken,,

    Did you do any research regarding Douglas Preston before you posted your comment: an “opportunistic writer trying to insert himself into a pop culture phenomenon?” Have you read any of his fiction or nonfiction books, specifically “The Codex” (published in 2003) or “The Lost City of the Monkey God” (published in 2017)? I thoroughly enjoyed both and hope I never meet a fer-de-lance.

    “Iron Will” interpreted the Forward in a certain manner. Do you know that any hint or change in goal posts was intended by that
    Forward? While “Iron Will” and others may have inferred that the Forward contained additional hints, this has nothing to do with establishing what was intended.

    Searchers are free to use statements as hints or disregard them. If a searcher has decided not to spend time on the search, that is a personal decision of the searcher and nobody should be blamed for that decision.

    These are just my opinions.


  33. Not to change the subject, but…..

    I’ve been thinking about one comment that FF made. (paraphrased) He said before that we didn’t need any special knowledge of things but a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help….

    Another comment he made states something to the effect of, “the clues did not exist when I was a child but many of the places that the clues refer to did.” (paraphrased)

    FF did not say that the places existed when he was a kid, or that “all” of the places existed… he said ‘many’ of them did… meaning that some of them didn’t, right?

    So if that’s the case, where is a place in the Rocky Mountains that the geography has changed in the last 60 to 70 years?

    I have a general solve that seems to marry the poem quite well but it’s not based on geography… its based more or less on history. Since I have been considering these two comments that FF made, I am questioning my solve.

    Any thoughts?


    • TimM, I find the history of some of the places in my overall search area fascinating – but only as facts and fables incidental to the search. On the odd occasion when I’ve relied too much on potential historical connections, I’ve stumbled.

      I also don’t think that FF using the word “many” necessarily means that some places must have changed in geographic terms. Yes, towns expand, roads are created, and new suburbs and subdivisions are named, but I don’t think that has had much, if any, impact on the Chase, simply because of the emphasis on wilderness.

      Examples of other things that have changed since FF was a child have been the impact of recreation, new industries, influx of wealthy land purchasers, and expansion of services/utilities in certain areas. That sort of change does have an impact on the environment and overall feel of an area, but I would hesitate to rely too much on those factors when crafting a solution, although you *might* consider some of them as confirmatory when thinking about “riches new,” for example.

      My guiding principle has been “poem first” at all times. The poem tells you where to go – and you don’t argue with it! There are mechanisms within the poem that give you precise locations, IMO, but you do need imagination at various times to help you overcome the “what the heck do I do next” moments that will occur, (Forrest has made a comment to the effect that the winner will be person who can best adjust). The danger is that you resort to relying on external “evidence” and trying to shoehorn the poem to fit it. My experience has been that there has to be a dialog between your imagination and the poem. When you need to adjust, you come up with an idea, and the poem will either confirm or deny that notion – and it will be very specific.

      To me, it seems unlikely that history will offer you the precision you need, but geography might. You can plot things on a good map, and GE will allow you to be precise down to a few feet. My solution relies on that degree of precision.

      My initial breakthrough came when I recognized that there were anomalies within the poem, and that these might be exploited – but that’s still no fast track to the treasure. I’m not the brightest among the searchers, and so it’s taken me years going over and over the poem, visiting places, adjusting, trying to think imaginatively, calculating, drafting – rinse and repeat – to get to where I now hope that I’m within reach of the final goal.

      As stated above, I honestly think you’d have to be some sort of savant to be able to do this in one go, hence the years that most of us have been at this. But I also think that geography is the quickest route, and that history will take you far off into the weeds. If anyone can tell me how history can get you to within a dozen feet of the treasure chest, I’d be stunned.

      As ever, these thoughts are worthless opinions until proven otherwise.

      • Thanks for the insight, Vox… I’ve been thinking about my solution and I’ve come to the conclusion that it is historical information… but it is based in geography, if that makes any sense.

        I think I’ll continue down this path for a little while longer. So far, I’ve not had to make any stretches to make the poem fit or vice versa…

        This whole path started when I stumbled on what I think FF was referring to when he said “What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve.”


    • Tim IMO The WWH, canyon, heavy loads and water high were probably there. The hoB is questionable,(mine was there), where he parked may not have been there, and FF probably put the blaze there. So, about 50-50.

    • greetings TimM – my read on your post is that you have all clues as ‘natural’ features, and that “many” (vs most) were present when FF was a kid. Thus, in this tense, begging your question: what physical…natural…features are in poem since FF was a kid? However, assuming all clues are natural features, is a bogus hipshot at best IMO. I’ve been slowly sweeping the archives for various ATF subtleties (many-most-all, etc) and I find it odd that such discussions are rare, despite subtleties drastically effect poem read.

      Various ‘innocent’ polls here would be interesting, like: How many guys think FF ‘9 clues’ are (1) all natural clues (2) some natural clues (3) no natural clues. Then we could raise the bar by restricting same response to just WWWH, HOB, and blaze. I doubt few would ever respond to either, even fuzzy 1st question (gold fever has no known cure).

  34. I would be interested in people’s thoughts on “The end is ever drawing nigh” .My original thought was that there may be a drawing near it. Then again, before my search in Yellowstone I decided that I needed to find a poster of Smokey the bear. I had certain things pointing to it. hoB, brave, wood, blaze, drawing. I’m still amazed that I couldn’t find a single poster of Smokey. in YS, not even a little one. Snowflakes probably protested him being Russia’s state symbol..So much for my Smokey idea. I’ve actually had 10 other reasonable ideas. 5 of them could easily describe the place I found . 2 could assist with clues in the book that relate to the poem, 1 for the key word that points to the location,1 for the blaze and one naturally for FF himself. I’m thinking the no clue lines in the poem help define the 9 clues Not that I really need more explanations for this line, but I be interested in entertaining other notions. Whatcha think?

    • Were you to look up most of the words of this line, you might discover the following: “End = The furthest or most extreme part or point of something (terminus). Or it means the part at the edge or limit of an area (boundary). “The boundary is ever drawing nigh;” (Interp.) Ever = more than once. Drawing = getting, and Nigh = near; Therefore: “The END or boundary will be getting closer or nearer, more than once.” (Interp.)

      So, what kinds of boundaries might one cross over several times? In the west, cattle guards separate one person’s land from his neighbors – The cattle guards keep “My” cattle from walking over to “Your” land. What about crossing from government land (BLM, National Forest, National Park) and private property?

      So, is this worth considering as you drive down a mountain road leading to a place that Forrest might have parked his “sedan” and then hiked to a spot where he secreted Indulgence? I think that it is within the “Bounds” of possibility. How about you? JDA

      • Yes JDA my favorite thoughts are end of something. End of canyon, end of creek/river wherever it may stop by emptying into a lake/reservoir , end of road, end of county, end of a national forest, end of the search. I was also playing with the word “Drawing”. As possibly a sign near the TC. Maybe you’ll find the end of a natural draw being close. Just some thoughts

        • Don’t forget the “EVER” though. I think that it plays an important roll. If it did not have value, Forrest would not have put it there. Don’t Ya’ think? JDA

          • You can draw water from a well, and you can draw off the posse pursuing your buddies.

            More better (maybe), there are several (more than a few, less than a sixpack) named Draws, one after the other, descending from the Diamond Breaks into a certain short stretch of the Green River.


          • JDA The use of the word “ever” in this line, IMO, is an increment of time. As in “it won’t be long now” “You’re almost there”. The “end” being the finish line/TC. Even if I apply it to the “draw” I mentioned earlier, I could say that the end of the draw being close to the blaze would mean a short distance.and ultimately a shorter time to get from draw to TC than you were before. I struggle to find another meaning in this sentence. Since you mentioned it, I’ll assume you have one?

          • Hi Scotty;

            Yes, I have a different point of view.

            To me, END relates to the end of a road – the place that Forrest parked his sedan, and he set out to secret Indulgence.

            You still have No paddle up your creek, Heavy Load, and Water High to solve before you can locate the blaze, and the hidey spot. All JMO anyway – JDA

      • Thats still true JDA, even if ‘drawing’ means pulling up to…as in drawing water from a well, you are pulling the buckrt up to you.

      • Wow! Thanks JDA! You totally put into words “the end is drawing night” the area of my solve better than I could! It gives me confidence when I go in October. Thanks again.

    • I think, if you’re going to think smokey the bear as a possible clues… don’t look for a poster. Smokey was originated from a black bear caught and “saved” from wild fires in the Capitan Mountains NM.
      Should I think there is a connection to the poem… CAPitan Mountain seems interesting. Or “Captain” as in a title, and the reason for a capital B?
      But I have been known to be an abstract thinker… so,…
      The problem now is, getting more than 8.25 miles north of SF.

    • Glad you are not a snowflake
      Ever—could mean end is eve r growing nigh
      Almost sounds like evening and night
      But that is not what I have been thinking
      It seems like he is saying you are getting close

      • Mama, I don’t think FF would tell us in the poem that
        we are getting close to the TC. That would likely be
        redundant, or at least, not helpful. All IMO.

        • tighterfocus,

          What do you think this phrase means then? I agree with Mama. It seems to be saying, you are getting closer with each step at this point. Since you have found the correct canyon down and have entered it at the correct location, why would it have any other meaning? Respectfully – Franklin

    • Scotty – it’s possible that ‘end drawing nigh’ could refer to a railroad – did you know that “halt” also means a small railroad stop with no station?

      “The smallest stations are most often referred to as “stops” or, in some parts of the world, as “halts” (flag stops).”

      • Thumbs up, CH! Do hobbits have thumbs? Anyways, I believe that the solution to this puzzle involves places that fit multiple meaning of the words rather than needing to determine which meaning. I always thought that F’s use of the term solve instead of the word solution is his way of showing us that words that are ordinarily used as a verb can also be used as a noun. Halt is the perfect example.

      • Curious hobbit The word “halt” IMO has been overlooked by many searchers. It really has only one definition .Come to an abrupt stop. No slow down, no creep forward, just stop. So when thinking of the WWH, and if FF was using the word in it’s true meaning. We need to ask ourselves where does warm water flow but not go anywhere? Scotty

        • To think the word “halt” means only one thing, “.Come to an abrupt stop”, is restricting the possibilities. It could be that all the definitions of “halt” are able to be referenced when thinking of WWWH. Maybe we are to look for something that all the definitions apply. Then to find the reference to why it needs to be “nailed down”.

        • Scotty,
          Sometimes I think we look at the poem with only a 2 dimensional thought process. Then wen botg come into place we see a 3-D world… yet, I still think something is missing from the equation… Time.
          So, If tme can be added to the thought of a clue reference there are other ideas that pop into play… no waters at all it one possibility. Frozen waters is another. Or even something that the waters might halt.

          Maybe you should ask yourself about the idea of “the word’s true meaning” as you put it.
          “…Now I will test you Wordsmith. Write down the full definition of the word “several.” Then Google it and learn that many of us don’t fully understand some of the words we use every day.f “

        • thanks JBL – infact, us hobbits are ALL thumbs
          (that’s why we’re the worlds best hitch-hikers 🙂 )

          Scotty – imho, water never physically halts in nature ..well, not for long anyhoos

          Charlie – agreed, i suspect there are more than one example of each clue in every location too, with a different possible route per clue

          Seeks – ya def need to get out more mate 🙂

  35. Glad you are not a snowflake
    Ever—could mean end is eve r growing nigh
    Almost sounds like evening and night
    But that is not what I have been thinking
    It seems like he is saying you are getting close

  36. I believe it simply relates to the first and second mention of “it” as in your quest. If you are in the correct canyon down below the correct home of Brown, then “it” (your quest) is ever drawing to an end. I am still ok with the idea of “left” but more so, I believe it means ever drawing to the finish with every step. JMHO

    • IF “IT” is just saying your quest… then “take it in” can not be a clue reference, right? It can only be a direction to go and find the next clue reference. IF so, the canyon down and not far too walk shouldn’t be considered clue references either, right?
      Which would mean wwwh as clue number 1 and clue number 1 is hoB?
      Using this [ if i read your post correctly ] no place for the meek should be clue 3 and heavy loads and water high would be clues 4 and maybe 5….
      IF those are the first 4 clues [ possibilities ] and “IT” refers to the quest… as moving along [ directional or the way to travel ]… where are the other 4 or 5 references in the poem? [ leaving the blaze as one clue.. so ~ 3 or 4 references to locate ]
      That is, IF you’re looking for 9 points of references as clue to travel to…

      • Seeker Just something to ponder. A “what if” What if the distance between the top of said canyon to the bottom was not that far to drive. But let’s also say there was no footpath to walk it. This would cause a detour that was possibly “too far to walk”. I know of several roads that are cut into the mountain as such that you have a bank on one side, a cliff on the other, and just barely enough room in the middle for 2 cars. (I’ve built a few of those) Consider also a freeway between point A and B that you have to go around because illegal to walk on a freeway. Just thoughts

        • Scotty,

          Personally, I have so many problems with the thought of a vehicle or alternate transportation needed to travel clues [ one or more ] I start pulling my hair out every time i hear it.

          My thoughts go to;
          fenn’s thoughts of “down the road” 100, 1000 plus years. [ heck the car was only invented a little over 100 years ago… what will we have for transportation in 3009?].

          Then we have searchers telling and explaining there process to fenn and their first two clues…and fenn saying; they walked past the remaining seven clues.
          The idea to get kids and family out, yet have them travel clues by a car… ” Dad, are we there yet? Nope we need to drive from this clue to that clue…”

          In the year 3009 it will be more difficult because, the RM’s are still moving. This seems to imply that the clues are tightly related and normal movement [inches, feet] overtime will affect the solution, and not so much, a road being removed or changed.

          Then we have this Q&A;
          *Q~ Who else knows where the treasure is buried?
          A~ I never said it was buried. I’ve avoided that word. I hid it. I don’t mean to imply that it isn’t buried. I just didn’t want to give that as a clue. It took me two trips in my car to hide the treasure. And I can tell you an 80-year-old man is not going to make a trip into a canyon, then come up and go down again. As for who else knows, I’m the only one. My wife doesn’t know. [People.com… people celebrities]

          As you can see there are some discrepancies to other comments fenn has made. One being “two trips in my car” compared to “two trips from my car.” in many other statements. The other is; “…is not going to make a trip into a canyon, then come up and go down again.”

          Some would like this to mean ‘Ha! fenn drove down the canyon… and that fits my solve perfectly’
          But you have to ask yourself… if fenn drove any clues, what is the point of being at the prior clue… why not just start at the clue where the driving is no longer needed Or what the point of two trips? [ fenn~ “…I followed the clues…” and “…there’s no other way…”] and gives us the fundamental guideline [“If you can’t make two trips from your car to your solve in several hours, then don’t go.”]

          I’m not diggin the idea of transportation involving any clues… no vehicle, train, quad, horse, inflatable kiddie pool raft, or scuba gear needed.
          But that’s just me…
          “Not far but too far to walk” can have other ideas and possibilities other than an unknown distance or laziness.
          I mean, what is a memoir… A reflection of time past? Then we have another book title “tftw” and more reflections of time past. Now a new book “once upon a while”… Is it just me, or is there a possible theme happening here.

          Sorry for the long post. Sometimes my analytical mind tends to travel too far.

          • Seeker. I am not following you on this point. If a distance is “too far to walk”, then how are you going to cover the distance without some means of transportation?

          • Seeker. You asked
            If someone said; ‘you should’ve seen it in color’ what would you think?

            I would think I’m sorry I missed it.

            I don’t get your point. Maybe I need more caffeine.

          • Seeker:
            If someone said to me that it is too far to walk from point A to point B, I would naturally assume that I will need some form of transportation to get from point A to point B.

          • TomB,
            Not unlike “begin it” could mean your journey to the treasure… it can mean “begin it ‘where” in time past.
            Not far… in time… but too far to walk. { should’ve seen it in color, are song lyrics… take a walk to youtube.}

            Does “hint of riches” mean the gold? or could hint of knowledge past and present [ new and old ].
            Why does the poem start out in past tense as if something was done… and stanza 5 seems to ask what is happening or will happen… why is it I must go?

            What looks like simple words, create different meanings, such as IT with the thought of “begin it” compared to “begin IT where” or “why is IT I must go” when the line could have read as; why must I go… or something like that.

            “…There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them…”

            “The poem in my book is something that I changed over and over again. When you read the poem it looks like just simple words there. But I guarantee you that I worked on that. I felt like an architect drawing that poem.”

            “Forrest, you talk about the clues being difficult to solve (opposite being easy) yet that the solutions are simple (opposite being complex). Yet when I read the stories of other searchers, I often think that their solutions to the clues tend to be either easy solutions or made out to be very complex and over-thought. Are there any suggestions you would give in approaching the clues and solving them? ~Craig
            Craig, there is no substitute for thinking and planning and observing and looking at maps, unless it’s the desire to keep it simple.f ”

            “*You will ignore the poem at your own peril”

            Straightforward doesn’t always mean simple…

          • Seeker. I could see”too long” referring to either time or distance, but to me “to far” clearly refers to distance. My view of the clues (a view apparently shared by only a few others on this forum) is that the clues are practical. By that I that I mean the words used in the clues have a relatively standard meaning. Example: “warm” means warm to the touch, “down the canyon” means decrease elevation or go south, “halt” means stop, “too far to walk” means a distance that requires a means of transportation, etc.

            This does not mean the poem is simple to solve, because you still have to identify the local geographic area to which the clues apply.

          • They WALKED right past the other clues. So the searchers that got first two correct then were walking past the others.
            It appears to me his poem directs the searcher on a walk. But he knew where he was going, so maybe drove to the end (of the walk) and hid the chest.

    • That is the age old question many have talked about… IMO… It is the waters. Begin may not refer to just a staring point for a searcher, but could also refer to the place or source of the waters… halt may not just refer to stop, but could refer to change or change in the waters as merging as one, direction, elevation, temperature etc.
      But to simplify “IT” as only the quest, may limit the “WhatIF’s” fenn might have referred to, or even where IT [ as in waters came from in the first place. And should IT as the waters take it in the canyon down… can down mean literally removing soil and creating the canyon that is not far, but too far to walk in / or / over the time period IT was creating [ the canyon down; as lowering the land around ]?

      Better yet, could the waters come from hoB, in which, the waters “put in below”? I guess it {IT} could mean many things / ideas. I’m just wondering if we try to oversimplify are we simply not thinking?

      • Good thoughtful points. I had not considered that meaning of “it”. Do you think “the end is ever drawing nigh” could mean waters ever flowing, rather than the end of the quest? Just trying to follow along with your ideas here.

    • Franklin – i also would bet money that IT = quest/search

      (don’t mind Seeks – he’s just happily digging rabbit-holes 🙂 )

    • While “it” could certainly be the quest, I tend to think of “it” more often as a road that you are taking in the canyon down or a river that you are following.

      Maybe that’s not really different unless the road/river is a new one starting in that location.

      • Fmc. To me, the means of transportation through the canyon is irrelevant. What matters is the direction of travel (down) and the distance to be travelled (too far to walk).

    • IMO I say it’s either your car or your quest. They’re both going together so it doesn’t matter. Scotty

  37. Just a heads up for those that this may impact…

    Later this week or this weekend, I was planning to go through the various solves that have been posted here on Dal’s site and gather the WWWH from them to post on http://www.warmwatersfound.com (where I am attempting to compile as many possible WWWH as is possible as something of a WWWH database/repository).

    If you have any WWWH from solves you’ve posted here that you’d rather put on http://www.warmwatersfound.com yourself (I don’t know… to claim ownership or something), please post them in the next couple of days.


  38. This is a serious question so please don’t think I am making light of anyone’s solve: Do any of you think the TC is hidden in Colorado?

    I have not found any good home of Brown in Colorado, so I have focused in other states, but maybe some of you believe Colorado is the place. At least if you do, I would feel less guilty since I live in Colorado.

    If you do believe it is in Colorado, does the recent forward by Preston influence you more for that belief?

    • Franklin. Only Forrest knows the answer to that question. There are, I feel quite sure, plenty of people that would choose Colorado, as there are for each of the other three states. No need to feel guilty. Go where the poem leads you would be my advice. Most of all, have fun with it.

    • Franklin I’ve covered every hot spring I could find on the western part of the state. Not because I had any ideas but just to make sure it wasn’t in my backyard. I’m thinking of hitting the eastern side next year if it isn’t found. Just gives me a reason to explore the state at this point. Scotty

    • It certainly could be and my first BOTG solve was in CO. There’s really no reasoning behind one state or another besides personal biases, so if that’s where you live, I’d probably focus on it first so you can do more/easier BOTG.

      If you can find, do BOTG, and eliminate 5 solves per year in CO because it’s closer, so long as there’s not a significant difference in the quality of your solves, I’d think that would be better than doing BOTG for 2 solves/year in Montana.

      Plus, doing more BOTG gives you experience for issues that may arise in your later BOTG. You become more efficient/effective in your later searches.

    • Franklin: if you haven’t found a good home of Brown in Colorado, you haven’t examined the Arkansas River. Do check it out — it has a canyon down, hot/warm springs, home of Brown, and even an explanation for “if you’ve been wise”, all findable on a map. It’s a better match than most solutions. That said, Colorado will never be on my Fenn treasure radar, beautiful as the state is.

    • Franklin –

      Sure! We search in both CO and WYo, so far without chest and without discouragement.

      I too live in Colorado, but I wish the chest was in Utah ’cause I really really like exploring in Utah.

      You can’t find home of Brown without beginning where warm waters fault, so get after the latter and let the former ride till you get to it.

      Or as ff phrased the same advice, “Stop arm-chairing that thing to death and get out in the trees where the box is.”

      The “recent forward by Preston” . . . I let that one sleep, and don’t worry or wonder about it. If something ever comes up that makes it sound smart it’ll be right where I left it.


      • Thanks you all. I am a big time Colorado lover and life time hiker, fisherman and all that. I love Colorado for everything it blesses us with. However, I have not found a home of Brown in Colorado which matches the other clues which would last another 1,000 years.

        Maybe it’s there somewhere and I just haven’t figured it out, but if so I hope one of you find it and prove it. I’ve been on 3 trips this year in Wyoming, and certain to be going again next year unless the TC is found.

        I do not feel the Preston forward holds any serious hints, but is just a distraction. However, the new book probably has something in it which we need to know. Since Preston mentioned the poem had changed from the 90s to the 2010 date, I wish he would come on out with what was different. Not a chance is my guess.

        Thanks for your encouraging posts guys !!

    • Franklin, this is a serious response to your posting. I am
      not trying to mock, embarrass, or tease you.

      You should only be trying to solve for “home of Brown”
      after being extremely comfortable with your solve of the
      clues before that one.

      Good luck. This is all my opinion.

  39. I am at a total lost right now. i have no idea how to respond to the DMON&S except like someone said on Jenny’s site that the car would have NM license plates. my biggest problem is you can’t get to that area from SF in one afternoon which we see as about 6 hours. my head hurts lol

  40. Two years ago I exchanged emails with Mr. Fenn right before and after a search in the Colorado Rockies. I sent him my solution in the morning and we exchanged emails at the end of the day. It was an awesome and memorable hike mostly because while sitting along a quiet creek, three moose walked right past me less than 10 yards away. Two calves and momma and they didn’t seem to notice me until I [stupidly] opened up a velcro camera case to take a picture. Anyway, at the end of the day I thanked Mr. Fenn for the adventure, and asked him what he though about me sharing my story on a website. I asked him “If you were me, would [you] share this with the world? Surprisingly, Forrest said “No.. they have their own gig.”
    So does anyone who knows him think that is a strange answer? He has encouraged others to share their spot, right? So why not this place??
    I went back twice since then and still think it is there.

    • Hi Dave i have also emailed Mr Fenn and sometimes he answers & sometimes NOTHING lol. i read it as it’s an interesting story but not everyone would be interested. if that’s his answer i think it’s an off day for him. Was the exchange done during the bad news stories about the searchers dying? He was down a little over those deaths though we don’t think he is responsible. if i buy a sports car i am responsible how i drive not the dealership. i have to use sound judgement. i guess he thinks everyboby has their own spot /gigand might not be interested. i think its an off day. share away

    • I agree with Wildbirder, Dave. Share at your own discretion. I hope to find the treasure eventually, but the next best thing would be to contribute to the treasure being found, IMO.

      • Maybe its me, but it seemed Mr. Fenn took an interest. I think I received 4 or 5 responses that day. I would like to contribute to it being found as you say but if I post the location, many MANY people would go and my concern is over the pristine nature of the site. I flattened plants and dug quite a bit using a detector. Its an ecologically sensitive place if you ask me (and I’m an ecologist). This is also a place that resembles a couple (3) of the drawings in his book, including his clearing by a waterfall/grave site), double colophon obvious from the air. Road to take below HOB is 8.245 miles; historic place nearby for the meek, etc. So I guess if I’m going to share the location, it needs to be with someone who could agree to keep it confidential. Besides If I ever get out there again, and I pray it happens again, I’d rather not have it picked over. Its a wonderful and scenic place worth going to by itself, and I’d go even if the chase is over. Other searchers would probably smile when they hear my HOB. When I realized what the HOB land was, I knew it would be that way for a long time and could always be known as HOB. I recall saying “that Fenn is genius”!
        Lastly, I think the reason I didn’t find it is lack of time searching, or, rocks shifted and covered it. Or, I may have simply missed it with the detector in the grassy opening below the waterfall. There are many little hiding places near the blaze, especially a rock field between two massive colophons.
        Its a fun place to search and I’d love to guide somebody there some day.

        • You mention it being ecologically sensitive. If it’s a place ff is familiar with (regardless of the treasure being there), that may be a part of his concern.

          Regardless, if you’re planning on going back, keep it to yourself (duh). If you personally are not, but are concerned you might have missed it or want a second opinion, I’d find someone you trust on here (to the extent that’s possible) and do some kind of partnership.

          If you then decide it’s not feasible (collectively, potentially after a second search) then you could share it and stress the ecological issues and stress that you don’t believe the TC is there.

          I think that would mitigate a lot of the potential damage while still allowing you to share your solve.

        • Consider: if you share and someone goes to the spot and finds “it” would you be upset? If you would feel good about helping someone else, then share. If you may want to go again yourself, don’t share.
          But maybe tell us if it is in Colorado?

          • we have documented so much of our solve we could prove we solve it but no we would just know we weren’t suppose to find it. like someone said if it’s not fun you shouldn’t be doing it. but if were to find it the TC it would be all the sweeter lol

        • * * * * * * Dave worried – ” . . . if I post the location, many MANY people would go and my concern is over the pristine nature of the site . . . . Its an ecologically sensitive place if you ask me. Its a wonderful and scenic place worth going to by itself, and I’d go even if the chase is over.” * * * * * *

          I’d say that trumps any other consideration, Dave.

          Share it as a “pristine, wonderful and scenic place” with folks you know and trust to value it on those terms, please not as a chase playground.


          • We have the same moral question. once we go and we do find the TC. what happens to this place that is remote and beautiful. remember Mr Fenn said its not on a human trial. what state do you search in?

            can we tell people how we found the TC without telling the main location? not sure. but we do find peace in knowing we are NOT responsible for how others treat the world we are only responible for how we treat our special place.

        • Dave,
          Ok… what happens when the chest is found [sooner rather than later] and fenn tells all.
          Three major media outlets and hoD…
          I mean, some day this will happen whether fenn is around to make the announcement or not. Go get it, let folks know or don’t. But why jump the gun and want to tell all if you’re worried?… you didn’t seem to worried when you said; ” I flattened plants and dug quite a bit using a detector. Its an ecologically sensitive place if you ask me (and I’m an ecologist). ”
          Were you not worried the affect of the organisms, plants sensitive eco-system you disturbed by stomping and digging “quite a bit” ?

          LOL… in 25 to 50 years, we may not have to worry about hurting them… well, by digging or stomping.

          • It might be useless – I think I agree. But in my case bringing it along helped me rule OUT many small rock piles and grassy patches like the grassy opening he describes in his book. Besides, what is a quicker way to “look quickly down” than with a detector?! (It was worth bringing it because I was able to cover more ground and it was less than 2 lbs to carry).

  41. Can’t wait to go on my first brown trout fishing expedition out west. Anyone know how much that costs?

    • Costs are different in different States..In Montana an out of state license costs just under $50…which includes a trout stamp and allows fishing for 3 days…

      I think in Colorado you can get a one day or a two day or an annual…

      If you Google the state you are interested in… “out of state fishing permit, montana” some of the links will lead directly to the state Fish and Game folks where you can get all the scuttlebutt.

      • Colorado is $14/day + $10 habitat, Wyoming is very similar. If you plan to fish in national/state parks there are usually additional fees on top of having a state license. Almost all you can do online now, much easier, just print it off and put in a ziplock back…read up on proper handling/release techniques, different fisheries have very different rules/approaches/etiquette…stop in at local fly shops they can offer advice and show you spots, usually very helpful.

      • I confirm: it’s $14/day for Wyoming. (Fished the Salt River last month, and the Snake the year before.) Note that a Wyoming fishing license does NOT allow you to fish in Yellowstone. YNP requires its own license.

  42. The Santa Fe New Mexican has an annual “10 Who Made a Difference” event.

    Folks who are honored come from nominations by the public.
    I am suggesting that everyone here nominate Forrest. He’s made a huge difference to may folks lives in a very positive way, not only in New Mexico but all around the known universe.

    10 Who Made a Difference | Santa Fe New Mexican
    Know someone in our community who deserves recognition?
    For more than three decades The Santa Fe New Mexican has honored community volunteers who have made a difference in Northern New Mexico.

    The effort honors local individuals who use their time, talents and passions to give back to the community. Nomination applications NOW available for individuals to be one of the 2017 10 Who Made a Difference honorees!

    Deadline for Nominations: Friday, Sept. 29th | 6pm
    Nominate someone by going to the following website and filling in the form:

    Those of you who are gifted marketers can help significantly by adding a well written nomination. The rest of us can just fill in the form and give a couple reasons why we think Forrest is a great asset to the world.

    You can read about last year’s 10, here:

    • Thanks Dal – One vote submitted. You need to include Forrest’s phone number – it can be googled. JDA

  43. Just touching base gang – just read the Aug 19th edition of odds and ends where Dal posts the new videos and JDA had surgery.

    Been working in my new garage to get it ready for my 62 Falcon to come home to roost, after being at a friends house for a whole year. On top of that, NCAA D3 football has started and on top of that, starting to make preparations for doing a deer camp for the opener the first weekend in November. My younger son is now out of college, so we can hunt again this fall, after taking 6 years off.

    Will try to catch up on the blog this weekend while I am at a men’s retreat shooting guns and where you get to grill your own steak.

    Yeah, I’m distracted. 🙂

    • Welcome back swwot – Sounds like you have a busy life. JDA
      P.S. – I am healing well, hope to be able to “HUNT” soon – JDA

    • A trip down memory lane… Dad gave brother a 63 falcon [work vehicle]. I use to seek out with it when the opportunity allowed [ @ 9 yrs of age ]… Had over 350,000 on it when it finally die.
      My first car; a 65 Plymouth Belvedere II.. slant 6… I really enjoyed that car. Odometer stopped working at 170,000 plus… a year later, so did the number three piston. Enjoy the hunt… I like my steak med. rare.

      • Seeker, I have memories like that too… my first car was a 67 cougar (289), my brother ‘s was a 67 Plymouth satilite (383). I drove the Plymouth a lot… you can possibly fit the cars of today in the trunk of the Plymouth. Great memories… thanks for jogging them for me….
        I like my steak medium well……

        • It must be car memory day… I had a 66 Ford Falcon in my twenties… but it was a four door 🙁

          • Still a nice car spallies…. 🙂 my 67 cougar had the back tires changed a lot, but I don’t remember ever putting new tires on the front… humm I had a heavy foot… lol those were the good ole days… 🙂
            See ya

          • my first was a 62 or 63 dark blue chevy nova. i was 18 living with my brother & his wife in Terrell Tx my senior yr in HS. my brother keep promising to rebuilt the motor but keep putting it off. I decide to use an old “I Love Lucy” show to get him started. you know the one about the barbecue grill. well i put on grungy clothes put car on stands and lay out the book and a bunch of tools. i was patiently waiting under the car bored stiff & he was late coming home. i started removing oil pan bolts. remove a bolt wait a while remove a bolt wait a while. finally with two loose bolts holding the front i had one to go when he arrived. he was asking me something i couldn’t make out as i remove the back bolt. as i yelled what to him the oil pan let loose. as i come out from under the car covered in oil he said “Did you drain the oil? I guess not” lol we rebuilt it and i drove it at colledge up in Denton for 5 yrs then a friend drove it without oil breaking a piston. i sold it to a guy who put a battery in it and some oil and drove it 3 or 4 months before he fixed it. what a car?

        • Focused – my brother an I had a cousin of your cougar, a 1968 Mustang Fastback (289 bored out to a 302) when we were in high school. Of course we were very envious of a guy my brother worked with who had a ’68 Shelby GT500KR. He had no problems going faster than us… but he also went through rear tires faster than us. 🙂

          Those were fun days… almost as fun as these days chasing after f’s chest.

  44. Heading out in the morning for my last search. I only have one solve left and it is my best. Will take me 13 hours to get there but oh well. Wasn’t planning on going alone, but oh well again. Wish I could say I picked up on some good tips reading these blogs, but I can’t say I have. There have although been some good reminders of thoughts I had long ago. The only reason for this trip was because of the impatience of the friend I was with the last time.This search will probably be my last in this area. I’m still not convinced the TC hasn’t already been found but we’ll see. The place I’m heading for fits all the clues in the book and poem perfectly, I could not imagine a place that would be better. Guess i’ll publish this solve if I don’t find anything. Scotty

    I think the idea of surveillance is not “sure enough” for Forrest to be so certain. Technology in the wilderness is just not that guaranteed.

    I think something in the chest COMPELLS THE FINDER TO TAKE SOME ACTION that necessitates Forrest’s notification, should he be alive, or a designee, otherwise.

    I can only think of two things:
    -some sort of paperwork that is necessary to guarantee legal rights, or, lacking it, flatly deny them (I, Forrest Fenn or my designee, do not relinquish ownership until notified of your discovery. [ All phrased in scary legal-eze.] )
    -an IRRESISTABLE reward to be provided upon notification, but it would have to be truly irresistible

    ….any other ideas?…..

    • Thank you, Dal. Nice article, and you gave a very good interview. Mr. Fenn’s comment may provide more searchers looking in Montana.

      • Good article about the wilds of Montana. Is it really true that more searchers look in the other 3 States? I was under the impression that a lot of folks have been looking in Montana.

        I just have a completely different take on the hiding place, so I don’t assume Forrest would have selected his special place based on his youthful times. My opinion is that he did so many things and went to so many places in subsequent years, that the special spot could have more to do with a discovery during those post-youth years.

        I also believe he discovered his new special place after he left the military and started his art business. This is all just my opinion of course, and I could be wrong. I have very good reason for thinking this way however, so for now I am sticking with my ideas on this.

        This treasure hunt has given me new, and renewed interest in hiking and exploring for sure. I wonder how long this will go on?

        • Franklin:
          Curious as to why you believe ff found his “”spot” years after leaving West Yellowstone”? It appears he had little time after age nineteen to do any exploring, possibly 30 years past his youthful years. Other than digs in New Mexico, very little info. available. Any ideas?

          • Big Skip,
            It’s possible he may have had more time than you think?

            – – When he moved to Santa Fe in the early 1970s, he fished the Pecos River and small streams, and hiked all over central and northern New Mexico, “to get the lay of the land,” he says, “and learn something about the country in which I lived.”


        • I saw that, Road Hawk. I was actually heading either there or to CO on Thursday. Do you think this is a wise idea, or folly?! I’m traveling alone this time.

          • By lunch today the snow/rain was over and I went botg. The weather is always changing, but there is more snow in the forecast.

      • @Joseph not really fresh news, he mentions this in video interview (check the media page). For me it’s interesting to note that in this interview he says something to the effect of “I’ve said a few things, I’ve answered a lot of your questions some I wish I hadn’t” ….paraphrasing.

        I know of one searcher who felt his mentioning that he blazed trails for the FS might be what he ‘wished he hadn’t said’. So, no it’s not hot news. Could this be when he found his special place? IMO who knows!

        • Here is the entire quote:
          “Forrest also said, “If I was standing where the treasure chest is, I’d see trees, I’d see mountains, I’d see animals. I’d smell wonderful smells of pine needles, or pinyon nuts, sagebrush—and I know the treasure chest is wet. Well you’ve asked me a lot of questions and some of them—most of them I answered, a few I haven’t, but I’ve got to tell you—there’s one thing I told you I wish I had not.” f

          It is my personal belief that he did not want to mention pinon nuts. Forrest has said as much – later when he was questioned about it. JDA

          • JDA, Wet may be a word to check in your old dictionary or find in old poetry, I don’t think ff means water at all.

          • Sharp Bob.
            Poets are so free, only constrained by meter and rhyme. Funny that meter is also a foot. I’m too lazy to make a bog joke out of that.

          • From the TarryScant site:

            “Physics tells me the treasure is wet.” -Forrest Fenn

            Since he stated it that way, I can only surmise the TC is somewhere that flowing or trickling water can find it. Water seeks the lowest places. Sure it could be wet, many times over, without being under water or behind a waterfall.

            According to an interview with the Santa Fe New Mexican:

            “And he said he erred in mentioning piñon nuts. He really meant pine needles.”


          • JDA:
            Well I said yesterday in this page about being wise and about water.
            meaning, wet = water, who comes from the verb = with sinonemo = humeder, povilhar, wet, pulverizer, this word is an obejto that lies in the image of his fen forrest bathroom as well as I will say about wise, as a man knows when to water is hot or cold, just you use your hand in the water or in the hothouse remember some of the design of the lady peggy
            heavy load and high waters is in the clipping book of forrest fenn in the page of dall

        • Cholly:
          Do you recall the searcher’s name or where there is some verification that ff blazed trails for the FS (Forest Service?) I must have missed that.

          • Hi BigSkip – Forrest talks about clearing trails for the Forest Service in the New Mexico True Stories video.

    • Thanx for sharing Dal.

      I read the other replies and no one else has remarked much about Mr. Fenn’s laying down “to die at 90 under a tall pine tree way out in a forest someplace”.

      Some folks may have to change where they think the final resting spot for Indulgence is with this new information.

  46. My memory might be going – I seem to recall seeing something called “The Solomon Solution” on either this site or another Chase related site, but Google isn’t coming up with anything. Does anyone potentially know what I’m talking about or did I dream it?

    In other news, I am up at 5:14 am on a Saturday because I had two ideas (one of which is a Eureka-blaze moment) and now I can’t get back to sleep because I can’t get them out of my head. If Dal’s not sick of me sending him stuff, stay tuned…

    • Perhaps it was a long ago post searcher of Solomon Springs Montana. They relate to it as a potential Solo-man ….” as I have gone alone in there”…Solo…..?

      In your memory jiggle jog ? Lol.

      Hope this helps.

  47. Well FMC,

    tesla gave ya a hint. If that didn’t jog your jiggly memory, ya might try this…..

    You might try scrolling up a little bit here. On the right there will be a ‘search’ box. If you enter “Solomon” and press enter, it will return two (2) results. Perhaps one of them is what you are searching for??


    • I’m aware of the search function but I understand the “start at the beginning/easiest” option needing to be covered.

    • Sol/lo/om/on

      Sun/Jupiter moon/ supreme spirit(divine)/supported by.

      Shakespeare’s ” what’s in a name”

      ” hear me all and listen good”

      Solon- Greak Poet- sol/lo/on

      Intelligence- intel in the genes

      Thoughts and e ( energy) form matter…” what’s the matter?”

      Alone= all one

      Phoenicians invented the alphabet

      It was linguistic scientists the helped complete the final mapping of the human genome.

      Poets use rhymes.

      Just some musings .

      • I think what I’ve got is substantial enough to stand alone (vs. a comment buried in a comments section). I will write it up and send it to Dal for his opinion/to post.

        • Too deep and simplify? Too me it’s simple , though explaining things can appear deep and complex. It’s a matter of ones perspective. I always get I am too simplistic or too complex and deep. I dunno. FMC, iFF spent 15 years writing the poem. The poem looks simple in words and format and 250,000 people and 7 years later, people still don’t know how deep, wide or long their scratch made on the surface is.

          What is simple? What is complex? Does have a kid read the poem mean it’s simple ?

          There are many advisors but I am not one.

          • Maybe it’s just a matter of perspective and based on each person’s perspective re: deep vs. simple.

            Also, I seriously question the 250k figure.

          • Ya, I sort of think that the process and research involved to solve this poem may appear complex. Though in the end it may sound simple to explain. That’s just what I think anyways. Simple and complex perspectives both apply perhaps. IMO.


            “My guess is that in the last 7 years more than 250,000 people have searched for the treasure without suffering any serious injuries. I invite you to add your name to that list. The search is supposed to be fun. f”

            It’s a guess by FF.

          • The poem seems like a Rorschach test with words instead of ink blots. It seems to me that each person is trying to figure out literally what the words mean, but the interpretation depends somewhat on the person’s own experience. Also, imagining what Mr. Fenn would mean—you end up trying to go by his experiences that he relates in the books.

          • Mama, nice reference to Rorschach test lol. I can relate to what you say and mean. The words of the poem might only be understood fully when the sum of all the parts is known- meaning the correct solve. I dunno, I only have the thinking of what I know and that of what I am trying to know. All words in the poem I know and use all my life and a Poet has their own word usage distinctions . Figuring out his styled distinctions that are applied to based on visuals, locations and as a map ,is the simple complexity of this puzzle poem. IMO .

            In the end when this is solved and found the ” why didn’t I think of that” will be my ‘ haunting’ . Lol. So I think it’s best I try and think if everything , no matter the level of perceived complexity. I shall leave no ghost unturned!

        • Really? I never played solitary nor been in prison lol.

          I had angle approached the poem sometime ago using rhyme phonemics as a means to establish word usage.and meanings. Rather than just dictionary approach to meanings but rhythmic sound used as a word to rhyme that actually has a definable meaning that is applicable.Descriptively used in the poem that is by its definition and properly intended usage purpose. Justified meaning and also can be phoneticly used to rhyme.

          Sort of a check and balance for word usage , meaning and rhythmic flow. Only one situation this didn’t work in the poem- ‘halt’ and ‘walk’ . As the middle school asked him about. The purity of intended description couldn’t be matched within a word that could rhyme. Being as this was and is, I just focussed on the poem words because of this anomaly.

          I don’t know if it helps me at all though .

  48. BigSkip, the article Dal references above implies the author heard it directly from Forrest, though it is not quoted. j

    • Joseph:
      Thanks for the reply. I had asked Cholly (above) if he knew the source of ff blazing trails for the FS. Did that comment originally come from Dal in some way as you have
      suggested? Was it heresy and never documented? This point is very important for me as it affects my timeline of when ff found his secret spot.
      Thanks again

      • BigSkip;

        I can not verify this, but I seem to recall that it was a part of the videos that Forrest made when he did some logging near Lake Hebgan – Not THAT tape, but one in that series. I could well be wrong, but that is my recollection. JDA

      • I don’t think it’s helpful to know when FF first found
        his secret spot . . . if it’s the spot where he hid the

        Unfortunately, too many litterbugs have also been in
        the nearby area. I found a rusted can and a few pieces of broken glass, and should have picked up that stuff. Next time I see these things I will pick them up.

    • “In war there is no single truth.”

      My heroes are STILL not in DC.

      Will you be watching this documentary??

        • Another excellent PBS presentation. Thank you for the recomendation, GEYDELKON. ( It aired again early this AM).

          The “Code of the West” is now on my wish list, as well. Wallstreet indeed, W ould benefit, yet I highly doubt that is ever going to happen. (Follow the money).

          Once again, thank you.


          • SL I had seen many PBS documentaries. Ken Burns “The West” is another great series to watch. It should be on Netflix. I hadn’t see the Code of the West documentary about marijuana. One thing I dont care for is the legalization. Trying to find someone here in Colorado to employee who doesn’t come to work stoned is difficult. I really think it has hurt businesses. It has mine.

          • GEYDELCON,

            Have had Western writer Zane Grey inside my brain for awhile! (Netflex, here I come lol!)

            I hear you about Mary.


  49. Searchers:
    Hear me all
    Thank you for your replies and references regarding ff working for the FS. I need to do some more research for my timeline.
    Thanks again.

  50. Isn’t odd that a new book with FF stories is coming out this late in the season? Think that might give searchers time to ponder during winter?

  51. In our semi-weekly discussion of the treasure, my wife (usually with her eyes rolled back in her head) suggested using the dictionary on some of the more common words.
    Looking up creek on dictionary.com – British Dialect. a narrow, winding passage or hidden recess.
    Is the blaze just referring back to the “creek”? Food for thought. IMHO

    • WOW! Now that could be VERY helpful. I thought i had beat the dictionary to death. I made us a dictionary or list of every word in the poem and their meaning. Somehow i missed this & it helps THANK YOU VERY MUCH

    • yup, always good to check. Like when to use : to or too. We were always taught to replace too with ‘also”, or “excessive”. Making “too far to walk” as “also far to walk”, or “excessively far to walk”. Gives one a sense of what that line really is saying. Goes with the ATF comment of long distances.

  52. Yes, use your dictionaries… especially the old ones, and the ones specific to a special field or industry.

    I just reviewed SB 49 (the spice drawer) , and scanned about half the comments. Cloves are prominent in the post but no one mentioned that ‘clove’ is past tense of cleave (to cut/divide). A good enough hint for me, but then FF’s “lasting sting” phrase is a repeat from pg 145 of TTOTC where it is about experience and embarrassment. An interesting trail of crumbs to ponder…. bathing spots, thresholds, Store #1, ‘your fired’, etc.

    • But ‘cleave’ can also mean just the opposite, like where it is used in the N.T., that “a man shall leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife” — when I went searching, I found the following at http://www.vocabulary.com:

      “Cleave, a verb, has two very different meanings. It can describe cutting or splitting something apart with a sharp instrument, or — oddly enough — it can describe sticking to something like glue.

      To cleave or not to cleave, that is the question. Cleave can refer to being in close contact, to staying really, really close to someone or something: “If you are walking in the pitch-black woods without a flashlight, you want to cleave to the person in front of you.” On the other hand, it can mean to split apart with a sharp tool — which is not the action you want to happen while walking in the woods. We’ve seen that movie.”

      Is the past tense of cleave (1) clove, (2) cleaved, or (3) cloven? I’m starting to get a headache and forgot (if I knew in the first place, which I doubt) where this was going…

      • SD – and others,

        Another word that can mean the opposite is “fast”. It can mean to move quickly, or to be bound tightly. It can also mean to go without nourishment. It is interesting, at least to me, how the English language has come to be what it is today.

        • Clove was what he spoke of, did he speak with forked (cloven) tongue? IMO, If these are hints, they are not new info but affirmation of what is already under consideration.

  53. Can anyone confirm if Forrest said he hid the treasure in a “secret spot” , “special spot” or both?

    • there is a site called tarryscant if i understand it it has all of Mr Fenn’s quotes. go to site and type the word you want to find. if you are using a computer to search as on my computer u can do CTRL F and an extra search box will come up which give even more help narrowing your search. this works on almost all pages to help find info on a page. most cell phones also have this its call “find on page.” this tool is great when reading a long article or if you are trying to find something on the blog. if you are looking for a certain tribe of Indians in a story u bring up find on page type the name. BAM! if it’s in the story it will show you. cuts down on reading things that don’t apply to your work. this for me as neat as google earth. if using google earth be sure to check out the tools on top of the bar. they are very helpful to mark places. i keep search area places of interest in blue pins. secondary places in red as a group. i know this sounds confusing but go play with it and you will figure it out. also one of my favorite things on GE is taking tours of mountains that allows to see from above over valleys and canyons. they are just fun tools if you know how to use them. i hope this isn’t to confusing

    • Here is a quote that might help> ““Mr. Fenn,
      Did you choose the hiding location purely because it was special to you, or were there other considerations? […] ~Michael Monroe
      Thanks Michael. The spot where I hid the treasure was in my mind from the time I first started thinking about the chase. It is special to me and there was never another consideration. I was going to make it work no matter what. In my reverie, I often find myself stealing away to that place and I will always consider it to be mine alone.” f

      Hope this helps – JDA

  54. meanings of words;

    according to merriam-webster.com the word clue will give you the following information;

    Did You Know?
    The word clue was originally a variant spelling of clew, meaning “ball of thread or yarn.” Our modern sense of clue, “guide to the solution of a mystery,” grows out of a motif in myth and folklore, the ball of thread that helps in finding one’s way out of a maze. Of these stories the best known is the myth of Theseus and the Minotaur. In the myth, Theseus unravels a ball of thread as he searches for the monstrous Minotaur in the Labyrinth. After killing the Minotaur, he retraces his steps out of the maze by rewinding the thread.

    I do not believe it means anything in the search, just interesting.

    • so in Forrest’ story of his ball of string in his room that disappeared… how did his mom get rid of it?…. cut it in segments would be the feasible way IMHO

      in his story of the kids coming to the Gallery… weren’t they not segmented on the rope? hmmmmm

      • hi james i actually wrote Mr Fenn and he answered i have removed my personal email.

        10:35 PM (2 hours ago)

        to Forrest
        dear sir
        i was ask to email about a silly item. people are debate the ball of string story. i don’t doubt it happened because i hide boxes of dirt in our home as a child to play in when it rained. i wasn’t allowed to play in the mud. it started to rain one day and i ran in to go play in box of dirt and it was gone.
        people were wondering i guess whether as you got older did the string ever get discuss with other members of the family. did it ever get revealed as to what happened to your large ball of string?

        if you have time answer that would be nice. if you keep up on the blogs i am wildbirder ( has to do with my driving while birding not my life)

        thank you

        ps i hope this note finds you and your family well

        Forrest Fenn
        11:01 PM (2 hours ago)

        to me

        Funny story about the dirt Marie. Kids in the1930s and 40 flew a lot of kites and the string was let out on a giant spool, like a fishing reel, but much larger. Everyone had a different type of kite, and most were homemade. My favorites were box kites. I made one out of balsa wood that was so small I had to fly it with thread because string was too heavy when I let it out 2 – 3000’ in the air. Some kids flew kites so high that they could hardly be seen, and some were not necessarily high, but far. We rarely got them back. There was always plenty of string around and most of the time when you wanted to ship a package you wrapped it in brown paper and tied it with string. Today they use readymade boxes and different types of tape. It is funny that so many people don’t believe my ball string story. f

        • I seem to be having deja vu… I thought you posted this e-mail weeks ago. Are those time stamps for the actual e-mail, but not “dated”?

          Just want to make sure I’m not going bonkers.

          • i guess i did now i think about. sorry i just was trying to share the story. he still didn’t answer what he thought happened to the ball of string. i have sent several notes and have be very happy to get a few notes back considering how much mail he gets.

  55. Just popping in to update on my Chase status. Last year I had an issue with my “sedan” that lest me hiking down a mountain for three hours. Got that fixed. Got that fixed? Hmmm. A week and a half ago I was heading up the same mountain in the “sedan” and noticed the same symptoms as last year and drive back down before getting stranded again. Now, I really have the issue fixed. Then this past Friday I pick up my sedan and as I’m towing it home, I had my receiver hitch bust while heading through my neighborhood at 30mph. It wasn’t too much of a hassle to replace the hitch and ball, but I considered it a sign that I shouldn’t go chasing Saturday. That leads to today. I took my sedan up to the mountain yesterday, camped, and got an early morning start. Shortly into my trek, I busted something in an axle. Around I turned again. I swear, that mountain has something against me. It sure is a tempermental one, that mountain.
    My favorite part of being out there on a Chase is sitting by my campfire and enjoying the serenity of the great outdoors. I’m sitting on my couch and missing my campfire and the great front row seat to the Milky way’s appearance. Though the road is unforgiving, I am not. I forgive it for it knows I am out to conquer it. I am considering trail stamina training. Every know and then I get to imagine Forrest doing a flyover and giving me a thumbs up through his cockpit window. It makes me smile.
    Have you ever swiped your hand across the fabric of a tent while laying on your back and get to see the static electricity create a mini lightning bolt from your finger? What a light show. In that moment I feel secure. I contain the power to light a spark. So it in a multi colored tent and you’ll probably create a rainbow. I spark interest in the Chase in others who ask what I am doing. Sorry for babbling.
    I really can’t get out again soon enough. I hate to think that weather has started hampering people’s searches. I don’t want go this year without reaching my 10″X10″ spot. I only have one 10″ square to get to. If I don’t get there this year, there is always next I guess. Do you think Forrest would call the Chase for Indulgence as done if a searcher were to share with him the exact coordinates of where Indulgence waits? I would like to see everyone remain unscathed by bad decisions. I turn my “sedan” around for safety reasons. I try my best to be prepared for unseen circumstances and, at time, think that I am over packing for safety. I pack with my safety in mind as well as others. There I go rambling again.
    I guess this is as good a place as any to end my comment. I’m sure it will be held in moderation due to lengthiness. Oh well, take care my Fenn Searchers family.

    • hey slurbs how are you. sorry about your car. boy do we understand we are down to one car and are one small unexpected bill from disaster
      ourselves. we may try to search in oct if we can i dont think we will mak it till next aug. when you search how long does it take you to get to your area. for us its a two day trip or 10 hrs straight through.

    • Slurbs, thank you for sharing your experience(s) with us.
      I hope your sedan doesn’t “let you down” again.

      That’s a difficult-to-answer question you asked about FF
      calling the chase done. The exact coordinates may never
      be known or determined, because “exact” doesn’t mean
      “within a few inches”.

      Even if the TC can be seen from 12 feet away (as FF
      has suggested), the poem is likely to need a solve that
      is EXACTLY correct in order to lead a searcher to a
      place that is within 12 feet of the TC.

      Good luck to you.

      The above is my opinion.

  56. I am going to Yellowstone on Saturday the 23rd. Looking for a solve from someone who is smarter than me. I am adventurous and love the outdoors but am willing to admit that the Forrest Fenn poem has me stumped. I have searched in New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, and Montana to no avail. I believe there is someone out their that has the same wits as Forrest but does not have the ability to search the Wood for the treasure. I have been a wilderness freak all of my life: started backpacking when I was 8 in the High Sierras and then did the John Muir trail over 4 different trips when I was still I’m my teens; moved to Colorado in 1991 to be closer to the high country, to hike, camp, backpack, fish and hunt; I have run into bears, Cougars and rattlesnacks in the wild so many times I can’t count; so now what? Well I am willing to team up with someone that is smart enough to beat Forrest at his Game. I can go into the wilderness with no fear but The Poem has stumped me. If you know where it is, let’s team up and share the wealth. I will go where you know where the trove is hidden. I don’t need the money but would love to find it. I will be willing to sign a contract with you, after all I am a contractor. We can split it 50 -50, you are the brains and I am the Braun. My last name is Jones as in Indiana Jones. Contact me at Greg.jones@wellsandwest.com and let’s finish this quest.

  57. There was a reference to which season Forrest hid the treasure. I forgot to followup. Something to do with school children?

    • “Forrest gets Mail from a Middle School Class” – Hope this helps. Type “Middle School” in Dal’s search box, and it comes right up. JDA

      • Hi Wildbirder: yes, Forrest’s answer was summer (twice) to the middle school kids. But there are multiple definitions of “summer.” Astronomical summer (for the northern hemisphere) is indeed from the summer solstice to the autumnal equinox, the dates of which can vary. For instance, the summer solstice can be June 20th, 21st or 22nd (though June 22nd is rare — the next one won’t be until the 23rd century).

        However, I don’t think Forrest would be such a stickler for holding fast to an astronomical definition of summer. Northern hemisphere meteorological summer is defined as comprising the months of June, July and August, and I think that’s probably closer to what Forrest means by summer. By early September, kids are back in school, and knowing how Forrest felt about school growing up, I think he’s more likely to consider June a summer month than September.

        • zaphod,
          The months of June,July and August are I believe is the best time to search. June is somewhat iffy, this depends on what the winter weather is like, there more often than not snow will be around. July and August the snow is mostly gone except for over 11,000 feet.

          That to me is summer, I grew up in the mountains and rarely went on hikes before July and not after August looking for old cabins that sometimes produced old hints of what life was like, when and sometimes produced small treasures.

          Fishing was best in June and July for brown or rainbow trout, August was too warm for fishing and was much more comfortable for hiking and camping. IMO June, July and August is summer even without school entering into the fray.

        • Hi Charlie M: I would agree that June is a somewhat iffy month to search for Fenn’s treasure — particularly if you believe that fording a creek or river is necessary. Flow rates in the Rockies are at their highest in early June and can remain dangerous through July and even into August in big snow-years like 2017.

          • zaphod: Also, navigating rocks whether they are underwater or out of water and under snow is not a good thing. Good footing is a must. Help most often is miles away communication can’t be made, if your injured. Good footing, good footing One Can’t do much in snow in June.

            Note; Best bet is to have someone with you, when hiking,, they most often are help. IMO, IMHO

          • Charlie M. a lot of good it was for me to have my grandson & husband there when i slipped on some slimy rocks and went down in extremely very cold water. beside laughing so hard they almost fell in they weren’t much help. i get up all by myself turn and bow saying Ta Da She up! then Ker – Splash she was back down. good thing i look good in black and blue spots. lol
            BYW i am now the proud owner of a new pair of felt bottom boots made just for that situation. which a Dr recommended after seeing my bruises after we got home lol

          • Wildbirder: in case you haven’t been warned of this, many rivers/streams have prohibitions against felt-bottomed
            waders due to cross-contamination concerns.
            Didn’t want you to get unexpectedly cited by Fish & Wildlife.

          • we have checked and none of the search four search states have the ban. we also plan to clean our very well and not use them ANYWHERE but at our place. they were only $35.00 so we would replace them if we needed to use boots on another stream. we are very aware of water issues because in TX people dont rinse boats and we are getting zebra in our lakes.thank you for the warning we research everything to death but we are human & could miss something important like this.

  58. The previous discussion has brought something to my mind. IMO, ff more than likely did not walk across any streams and such while carrying the treasure for two trips. Because his footing wouldn’t be good while carrying the treasure across the water, weighing about 20 lbs, it’s bad enough doing so for ff at 80, which also diminishes balance. Remember, we’re dealing with the Rockies.

    • Hi Charlie: countering this hypothesis is the rather significant number of times that “Ford” comes up in TTOTC (vehicles, the teacher) as well as the Scrapbooks. Crosses are also prominent in Forrest’s communications. It’s up to the individual searcher to decide whether it’s relevant to the Chase.

    • hi sir we think he did or at least for our solve he did. remember it was to trips. we don’t know what steps he took but for our solve we are taking a twin sheet to unload TC and take notes / Picture for ours records, a roll of paper towels in a zipper bag to wrap items with, a bunch of zipper bags in different sizes & film canisters to put small items in to protect them. we each carry half back. one stays on bank while other crosses without backpack. then we haul packs across the stream by rope as to not to lose pack. we didn’t find TC on last trip but did practise bag moves across stream to have all the bugs worked out. after losing three walking stick to stream EVERYTHING gets moved across using a safety line. it’s not very wide and waters not more than knee deep depending on where you stand but it is moving so things dropped go downstream.

      • Wildbirder, I strongly urge you to reconsider your
        solve. FF, when he chose his hidey place
        (and wrote the poem) knew how dangerous the
        wilderness can be. And he also knew how careless and vulnerable people can be.

        There are no difficult/dangerous bodies of water
        (including streams, creeks, rivers, lakes, ponds, etc.) that a searcher would need to cross in order to find the TC.

        The above is my opinion. No offense intended.

        • hi tighterfocus we are not crossing a dangerous stream. however we do cross a somewhat difficult stream. even a creek can be interesting to cross. i have walked across a benign creek that looks almost dry while enjoying my hobby doing fine then i suddenly a turned ankle or sinking into mud with water oozing into my shoes or just slipping on the gravel. its just part of being in the outdoors. my favorite is a creek that only a fews inches wide to a foot that is a foot or more from the top of its bank with unstable sides that seems sooooo easy to cross but my straddle is not that WIDE. i have had a few KER-SPLASHES & scrapes because of cute little creeks that looked so pretty and fun to cross. lol

    • A searcher might see the following response by Fenn to a question/answer posted on MW March 2, 2015 as leaving open the possibility that one must cross a stream.

      Forrest, You said you made two trips from your car to hide the treasure. Besides walking, did you use any other methods of transportation to get back and forth between the car and the hide? Thanks, Edgar

      Fenn’s Response:
      “Edgar, your wording of the question prompts me to pause and wonder if I can answer it candidly, yet correctly. Were all the evidence truly known, and I answered in the positive, you might say I was prevaricating, by some definitions of the word. And if I answered in the negative, you may claim that I was quibbling. So I will stay quiet on that subject. Thanks for the question anyway. f”

      • Wading could be interpreted as either prevaricating or quibbling as a different method of transportation, depending on a positive or negative response, IMO.

        • Yes, (At the Top), and so could scrambling, skipping, stumbling, and crawling for a short bit. Fenn speak.

          • Yes, that’s true Joseph. Of those activities, which seem to you most likely for an 80 year old man to have been engaged in with 20ish lbs. on his back on his way to hide it?

          • Joesph,
            Other than on two feet, or stepping, or as you pointed out, crawling for a short bit. {look quickly down, your quest to cease- duck-? – stepping stones -?- hands and knees -?}

            Some comments fenn has made over the years do give pause to suggest, that the chest is not the only thing hidden… the hidey spot might be as well.
            Such comments; a three year old would need some help.
            Leave your search partner in the car.
            “gone alone in there”
            While at face value, these comments don’t seem so far fetch as to common sense… but… what if we actually knew fenn’s exact process was, they might just shed a bit of light on a dark place.

            Sure, I know fenn said; ” If I was standing where the treasure chest is,…” He didn’t really say at, or next to the chest [ only an overall thought of “where” ].
            However, the fact that he thought about this question to respond with no definite clear answer, and later have it posted, makes one think.

      • In the answer to another question :“Forrest gets Mail Two….
        Forrest responds to a question:
        I am a very simple person and you want me to have copious meetings with lawyers, preachers, undertakers and your family. What is wrong with me just riding my bike out there and throwing it in the “water high” when I am through with it ?f

        If he “walked” his bike up a mountain, because of the weight, but rode the bike downhill it would answer the question. Doubt that this happened, but maybe – just a thought – JDA

        • JDA, I think the whole “bike” idea is a rabbit
          hole. Please note that FF asked a question
          about his bike, rather than making a statement
          about it. Big difference there.

          The above is my opinion.

      • Here’s another idea: what if a good portion of Forrest’s walking route from car to hidey spot were along a well-graded trail, and during that portion of his trip he used the wheels on one of those roller-style backpacks? Then at some point, he hefts the pack onto his back with the shoulder-straps and leaves the trail to bushwhack onwards to the final destination? It would sure make transporting his heavy burdens easier.

        Something like this would also make Forrest feel quibbly in his answer to the question, IMO.

        • If I remember correctly, somewhere ff said that the TC was not near a trail. He may have not gone far from his car and simply carried the 2 loads in front of him with his hands. Remember he’s 80. Of course I don’t how strong he was, so it could go one way or the other. that’s my IMHO.

          IMO, the TC is not far from where a vehicle can go, without 4-wheeling.

          • It’s not far from where he parked his car, but there are some challenges present within the short distance he traveled; nothing significantly difficult, but not to be ignored, IMO.

          • At the top: FF said “Man made trail” imo, If you’ve spent time in the woods, you know what that means. You would also know where to look for a blaze. Scotty

          • C’mon guys… don’t ya think it’s important to get it right?
            ‘the TC was not near a trail’ ~ nope
            ‘FF said “Man made trail”’ ~ nope

            ♢”There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty to where I hid the treasure.”

          • Yep. What do you think would be the minimum distance that establishes not in close proximity? At least…by how many feet away is the meaning of not in proximity? What would you guess?

          • Charlie M

            I think you are right on. I believe you can drive to within a half mile or less from the treasure in a standard auto.

          • Well, if we knew that, we wouldn’t be chatting about that, right? I doubt fenn is going to give that up either.

            Best guess? [ from other comments ] 1/4 to 1/2 a mile [one way]. If you want feet? 1320ish or more [ at the least distance ]. But that would be as the crow flies. Pacing would be more than 440 steps [at the least distance]
            Double for the farthest distance, and add two round trips.

            The real question would be… could/did fenn drive off-road for any distance? All we know is he walked less than a few miles, and made two trips in one afternoon from wherever he park his vehicle.

            All assumptions… no real help, just thoughts.

          • Thanks Seeker. Just was wondering your estimate approximate for not close proximity. His less than a few miles statement , to me, is a maximum and not a minimum.

          • Alsetenash…Not to be a buttinsky, but it probably would depend on the terrain you’re searching…

            In heavy forest cover a grizzly can suddenly appear out of nowhere at 10 – 20 yards(30 – 60 feet)…That’s TOO close a proximity!

            In fairly open bushy areas maybe at 33 – 34 yards(100 feet) you could spot
            a rabbit.

            On open flat ground 66 – 67 yards(200 feet) is only a chip shot if you’re a golfer, and you can see the cup at that distance, or if hiking even a footpath if worn down some.

            It’s all in perspective really.

          • Samsmith. Thanks for your input. It is a about perspective , that’s why the question. What does a quote mean and it is open to interpretative perceptions. IMO . Not just the poem but his quotes are riddles in a sort of way also . IMO .

          • Alsetenash,
            I think… less than a few miles [ either one way or round trip is very telling, but not real useful.
            The fact that he used “few” and “miles” does give a minimum of a mile [ imo, overall distance of two trips combined, idea]
            I personally don’t think its a few hundred feet from where the vehicle was park [ lets say the size of a football field ] Not when he tells us that we need to be able to walk several hours to our solve.

            Again, just assumptions from what we know about, to date. Tomorrow we may know something else, or at least, have something else to consider.

          • Seeker,

            Can you help me out with where Fenn said we need to be able to walk several hours to our solve? That’s completely new to me.

          • JDA – Ah preshadit.

            It appears this guidance by Fenn is intended to help keep folks safe. In the context used abeve by Seeker, it was referred to (seemingly) as if it were a directive that should be followed to find the treasure.

          • (at the top)

            I did the best I could at finding the quote you were looking for. If it is not the one you were looking for, I guess you will just have to do your own lookin’ JDA

          • (at the top)

            I misread your first post – I did not read it as I appreciate it – I read it as AHHH
            pre sh** – Sorry. JDA

          • It’s my Texas drawl. I’ve never been able to completely shake it. My wife and I have noticed our two boys are developing a nice drawl as well 😉

          • where in TX are you from and do you still live in TX. we are in Denton, TX oh one more where do u search? we are NM

      • * * * * * * (At the Top) reminded us –
        You said you made two trips from your car to hide the treasure. Besides walking, did you use any other methods of transportation to get back and forth between the car and the hide?

        Fenn’s Response:
        “your wording of the question prompts me to pause and wonder if I can answer it candidly, yet correctly. Were all the evidence truly known, and I answered in the positive, you might say I was prevaricating, by some definitions of the word. And if I answered in the negative, you may claim that I was quibbling. So I will stay quiet on that subject.” f * * * * * *

        I’ve always found HOW he walked to be funny –
        “I knew where I wanted to hide the treasure chest so it was easy for me to put one foot down and then step on it to get to the next foot. That’s what I did.” f

        I’ve actually field-tested putting one foot down and then stepping on it to get to the other . . .

        . . . it seems like a great way to stumble on that treasure chest, but since ff has ruled that out, I’m pretty sure I’m not doing it right.


      • Fenn states “Edgar, your wording of the question prompts me to pause and wonder if I can answer it candidly, yet correctly.”

        It is known that Fenn has been to the treasure location on many occasions (it is a special place for him). IMO, he may have indeed used “other methods of transportation” on previous visits to the treasure location; but the wording of Edgar’s question is not entirely clear. Indeed, we can “quibble” about whether the second sentence (which has a question mark at the end) is the actual question. If it (the second sentence) is interpreted to stand on its own, then it could include any previous trips.

        IMO, Edgar was intending to limit the question to the final two trips, but the “wording of the question” prompted Fenn to “stay quiet on that subject”.

  59. Some of you keep misquoting Forrest by claiming he said “close proximity.” He didn’t. He specifically wrote “close proximaty.” You can pretend they are the same if you want, but don’t misquote him. His misspellings aren’t accidental.

    • Zap, and you misquoted him he did not say “close proxamity”. Here is the part of the misquoted quote: “There isn’t a human trail in VERY close proximaty to where I hid the treasure”. – Just want to get it correct – even the misspelling, which to me only draws attention to the quote, but contains no other special hints because it is not spelled correctly. JMO – JDA

      • Hi JDA – If you’re a fan of pirate talk, “proximaty” might work. If not “proximaty” would just seem like an error with no significance.

        • Since “proximaty” is a made-up word, FF could as well have said “close reelationshipp”. In either case, it’s a nonsense statement because it was written, not spoken. If spoken, a reasonable person would take the meaning to be what it sounded like FF was saying, and I don’t
          think that FF would try a stunt like that.

          His “proximaty” sentence is, for all practical
          purposes, meaningless . . . except for one
          teensy thing: the word “mat” is contained
          in the made-up word “proximaty”. FF’s
          purposeful inclusion of “mat” is, in my
          opinion, a teensy hint. You’ll probably
          never understand or appreciate it until it’s
          explained . . . after the TC is found.

          The above is my opinion.

    • JDA: it’s not accurate to claim I misquoted Forrest. Rather, I was succinct because my point was that people shouldn’t be too casual about correcting Forrest’s misspellings since (in most cases) they are probably deliberate.

      But I should like to point out that in your effort to correct me, you have actually misquoted Forrest by capitalizing VERY. Don’t you think you should have added parenthetically “(my emphasis)” since it is your opinion that the word “very” is important? A newbie reading your quote might mistakenly think that Forrest capitalized that word.

      On a more congratulatory note, I want to say I was gobsmacked by your recent post suggesting that you might have abandoned your long-held 9 sentences = 9 clues position. If I didn’t misread that post, was there something specific that changed your mind about that?

      • OK, I should have said that it was my interpretation – one point on your side.

        Why the change? I explained this on another thread to WR, but I will try to explain again briefly.

        Months ago I had moved stanza #5 and #6 to above stanza #1. I did this for a couple of reasons – Briefly – All riddles begin with a question so Stanza 5 asks a question – so to the top it went.

        Stanza 6 provides info for “in there” for stanza 1, so to me, stanza 6 needed to be before stanza 1.

        I felt that “Just take the chest and go in peace” needed to be the last line in poem – more logical.

        I see poem architecture as a circle, so moving stanza’s, (as long as I kept the line sequence the same), I was not “Messin'” with the poem.

        If BIWWWH = Clue #1 then (to me) the remaining 8 clues must come from OLD stanza’s 2,3 and 4. This left OLD stanza’s 5.6 and 1 as Hints.

        Make sense? It does to me anyway. JDA

      • Hi JDA — thanks for your reply, and your explanation. I was of course aware that you have long worked with a reordering of the stanzas (5-6-1-2-3-4), which I still maintain is a bit “risky,” but I could not argue that it was strictly ruled out by anything Forrest has said or written. Partly this is because you aren’t actually depending on the physical layout of the poem in your solution — you are simply changing the order that you ~read~ the stanzas. In other words, you don’t actually have to move the stanzas around; you’ve just picked a different starting point and applied wrap-around.

        “If BIWWWH = Clue #1 then (to me) the remaining 8 clues must come from OLD stanza’s 2,3 and 4. This left OLD stanza’s 5.6 and 1 as Hints.”

        Okay: this is the heart of my earlier congratulatory tone — your acceptance that if WWWH is clue #1 (which most searchers I assume do at this point), coupled with your reordering of the poem, necessitated that all poem clues had to be in stanzas 2-4, and therefore this was in direct violation of an assumption that 9 sentences = 9 clues. And since you (like I) don’t believe half the poem is “fluff,” there must be hints within stanzas 1, 2 and/or 6 (though perhaps not necessarily all of them). Have I captured your logic fairly accurately?

        • You have… except you say: ” And since you (like I) don’t believe half the poem is “fluff,” there must be hints within stanzas 1, 2 and/or 6 (though perhaps not necessarily all of them). Have I captured your logic fairly accurately? – I am sure the “2” is a typo, and you meant “5”. Other than the typo, yes, you have my logic down pat. JDA

          • Hi JDA — yes, thanks, mistake on my part — 1, 5 and 6. You probably won’t be surprised to learn that I think there are hints in all 6 stanzas.

          • For me, stanza’s 2,3 and 4 contain the Clues, and leave little room for Hints, but that stanza’s 5,6 and 1 are FULL of Hints.

            These “Hint” stanza’s “Set the stage” for the “Clues” and even tell you WHAT to look for within the Clues – JMO – JDA

        • P.S. – I have found that there are very valuable hints in all three of the “hint” stanzas 5, 6 and 1.

          Every noun is not a clue (or hint), but it is dangerous to discount any of them – – – or something like that. JDA

    • Zap…your point is valid about misquote, but your statement “His misspellings aren’t accidental.” seems to be an opinion not a fact. I tend to agree on a certain level…but you seem to be asserting that Fenn’s misspelling is to be taken as a hint of some sort.? I think that may be an illusion on your part…I see it and the many others as Fenn’s way of creating more “dust”…and just plain having a blast.

      • Agree. My advice to myself has been to enjoy Forrest’s scrapbooks and other ancillary writings mostly for their face value. They may or may not contain hints, but he has never admitted that they do.

        He HAS stated, quite plainly, that TTOTC DOES contain hints. The poem, the book, and a good map are still the best tools because they compose Fenn’s original blueprint for the chase. The best hints in TTOTC help with WWWH, IMO. Adding too much of the additional “hay” only makes it harder for me to find the proverbial needle.

        • Yup…Fenn himself has stated quite clearly that these blogs should be used strictly for entertainment purposes only. If that is true…why would he be including all of these hints here in his SB and other entertaining stories? There may be some things included that give insight to the man and how his mind clicks…but beyond that…believer beware. MOOP

      • Ken: you’ll note that I ~did~ say “probably deliberate” and parenthetically “in most cases.” We have at least one example that we know was deliberate because Forrest has acknowledged as much: “knowlege”. And Forrest has also linked aberrations with hints through his statement: “There are a couple of good hints, and then there are a couple of aberrations that live out on the edge.” Unusual misspellings (as opposed to common mistakes that many people make such as confusing there/their/they’re or lose/loose) would seem to me to qualify as aberrations. Is it really that likely that an expert fisherman would misspell caddis? How about “Neal Armstrong” (Scrapbook 177)? Spelling Orson Welles without the second E just inches away from a graphic in which it is spelled correctly does not seem like a likely accident to me (TFTW pg. 183). And twice misspelling Richard Wetherill’s name is a little odd for someone who seems to value the bracelet Richard had made.

        Note the similarity between Welles and Wetherill. Now consider Graciella, Romnella, Anabella’s hat, and Bella Abzug. Does “Wetherell” seem so accidental now? Awful lot of ELLs floating around. And what about all those occurrences of 50’s in both books. How do you write 50 in Roman numerals? Even the suspicious name Romnella anagrams to Roman Ell. Is this Forrest just messin’ with us to see if we’re paying attention, or is something more going on? Something for the searcher to decide.

        • Zap…It is all good. Your original comment at top of thread was what I was referring to…and was merely pointing out that someone new may happen on that comment only and take it at face value without reading further. Your short list of examples have not eluded me…and I think there may be quite a few folks that have travelled far with those “aberrations” as a guiding force. Anagrams are, in my opinion, about as useful here as bananagrams. I’m more in, the unemployed Texan with a wife with twelve kids, camp. Both feet on the ground, and ready to get my hands dirty if necessary.
          I believe Fenn when he says that the playing ground is even…so all of these interesting things folks swear by, must mean I’ll never even come close…And that’s ok by me. The Romans spoke what language?

  60. So searchers have been within 200ft and 500ft. If they were on a marked and maintained trail and walked past the final clue and told Fenn where they were. Wouldn’t logic dictate that there are two trails that pass by the chest in very close proximate you? Or one trail and someone stopped short at 500ft. How would the 200ft or 500ft persons describe where they were in relation to the treasure and giving Fenn the ability to know those approximations?

    • Road Hawk;

      In my mind, a searcher merely has to say that he/she was on trail “Z”, and traveled between points A and B. If the TC is off of the trail by some distance, between A and B – All Forrest has to do is measure 500′ from the TC to a spot on the trail and call it point “x”. Measure another point from the TC to a spot on the trail that is 200′ – and call it Point “Y”. As long as points “X” and “Y” are between points “A” and “B”, anyone using the trail from “A” to “B” will have been 200′ and 500′ from the TC. – Make sense? Does to me. JDA

      • or…”we didn’t find the treasure but the waterfall was beautiful…” or some such. I’m just saying. 🙂

          • Interesting ‘what if’ Ken…

            I’ve been saying this for years…

            It’s a concept most people can’t wrap their heads around…

            To consider this a possibility requires a completely different line of thinking and a unique approach to solving the poem, or at least part of it since I also believe Forrest used varying methodologies in constructing the clues…

            No single method of interpretation will work for all nine clues IMO…

          • Ken and Sam;

            YUO, I am one of those that can not get my head around the “No water involved” theory.

            Forrest has said the poem is straight-forward, and that there is no trickery involved. To me this disqualifies your theory… but that is just my opinion. If it is straight-forward, I have difficulty eliminating “where warm WATERS halt” – the “Put in” ( a nautical expression – The “No paddle up your CREEK” and “Water high”. How can you discount all of these references to water, and still believe Forrest when he says that the poem is Straight-forward? – Boggles the mind – JDA

          • Yes Samsmith…this concept is unusual…and I do believe this to be quite possible. The common theories are not few…and have been beat to smithereens.(no offense) My early times in the Chase were spent chasing waterfalls, confluences, bodies of water above others fed by creeks…you name it. I did 4 trips to a particular waterfall/creek. Fun times…but not even close. Clean slate and different scenarios have become more obvious to me. I agree that there are more than one methodologies in play. Methodologies may not be the correct word…but I believe improvisation is a necessary tool.

          • Hi Ken – My findings indicate a lot of water. I haven’t come across any waterfalls in the mayest though. My first solution did not use any water but this time around î can’t deny it. To suggest that water may not be involved would be like saying that birds don’t have feathers.

        • Water high, in the poem could very well be a natural lake or a creek that is above where the TC is at. Or it could mean water that is deep. IMO.

          With my solve there is water above me, no waterfalls. And ff, somewhere said it was two trips in one afternoon, in my solve a small amount of time is needed and a little more time is needed to place the TC. The extreme amount of time need would be a little short of 3 hours. At the minimum amount of time is a little as 1 hour. There are no trails, basically the terrain is easy to navigate. IMHO.

          With Botg this last August I most definitely was off the mark a little over 200′ and not understanding of “in the wood” meant. My next visit will answer my solve completely one way or the other. IMHO

      • Yes I see that idea JDA making sense. But it also makes me wonder if the distance is measured laterally or vertically. Sideways or up?

        • Maybe a little of both – laterally, but a bit uphill as well. It will still work. 200′ or 500′ vertically is a BUNCH! and Forrest said it is NOT in a dangerous place – I am more inclined to think laterally, and a small bit uphill. JDA

      • JDA:

        Good analysis…. As I have been saying for years, it’s closer than you think. The theory that ff wandered off from some campground when traveling with his family to discover his “spot” is a possibility. But I have long believe ff found his spot as a youth in Wyoming. I have doubts about those who are searching in tim-buck-too. Just my opinion.

  61. In my opinion, when you are going up the no paddle creek, there are 2 good points where you can cross the creek to look for the blaze. Again in my opinion, the blaze is not inside the canyon but up above it. I see one point where a searcher could be about 200′ from the blaze (my new blaze) and a 2nd point where you could be about 500′ from it. On my last trip there, I did not climb up to investigate the new blaze I have identified. I have 3 possibles but one shape which is very Fenn-like. I am in NM now visiting family, but planning another trip at the same time. Itching to go. Forrest said in 2010 that a person needs resolve and a good imagination. I am still very confident that my solve area is correct, until I have eliminated all possibilities. Good luck to all !!

    • Frankin ~”the blaze is not inside the canyon but up above it.”

      Your explanation sound like 500′ and 200′ as elevation factors, and not so much circumference on a more level area.

      My question is…[ if I’m reading this correctly ] why would anyone go down the canyon if the blaze is from above?

      Start at wwwh reference, don’t go down the canyon, that’s ‘too far to walk’… “Not far” [above the canyon is hoB] [ and possibly a ‘higher’ vantage point for, ‘from there’ [ below hob] it no place for the meek and the end of the drawing of the waters [high].
      Could it be that wwwh and hlawh are one in the same or related to each other, but we need hoB [location] to spot the location of the blaze… from hoB vantage point [in the direction of wwwh]… if you’ve been wise and found the blaze?

      Yeah yeah, I know… the switchback question. But we are not doubling back to wwwh… what you might be seeing is another location that represents the blaze [ that could be in the same direction to look as wwwh, but not at wwwh.] and only seen from hoB’s location. [ observation ]

      Is this the reason we need to nail down the first clue, and why knowing hoB, to not be concern about wwwh… hoB views wwwh- ? – and where the blaze is located?

      ‘You won’t know you have the correct wwwh until the chest is retrieved, line of thinking.’ { attempting to use ATF as check and balances to be true statements, yet not really helpful until we have done our job… deciphered the clues}.

      Just more rambling and rumbling…

  62. Hi All,

    I would very much like to get the book TTOTC,
    however I was gobsmacked at the price £124 British Currency.

    Does the book give a lot of subtle hints as this would be the main reason why I would want too get it, I would like your thoughts on this.

    If the book is worth getting, is anyone willing to sell there’s second hand?

    Ronnie the Scot

    • welcome to Odds & Ends, Ronnie – please fasten your seat-belt

      yes, of course i’ll annoy Dal (endlessly) until he finally sells you his only copy of TTOTC, for the bargain price of 350euros
      ..i’ll even reduce my usual 98% cut to 97.5 just for you 🙂

      unless you’re highly skilled with Highland two-handed claymore sword – which may convince me to drop my cut significantly tbh

      ( ..is “free” ok with you?? ..am sure Dal won’t mind at all 🙂 )

    • For us we think we found a hint or two. As to what the hints are it’s up to the one reading the book. Its a good read but trying to shift though the book for hints is hard . A hint for me maybe trash for the next person. Good luck on your search. When we complain about our 600 plus miles we drive we quickly are reminded we are bless. I know we couldn’t travel to your part of the world

      • It cost me more to ship the book to Canada than it did to buy the book. Collected Works used USP (US Postal Service) and not one of the other services (UPS, Fedex) for some reason. If that’s how it is being delivered to the UK, I’m not surprised it would cost that much.

    • Ronnie…get the book if you are serious about participating in the Chase….either way it is a good read. I would sell you mine but I’m afraid it has just about had it. The dog ate the dust cover a couple of months ago( I thought about a new raffle…but never did find the remains). The poem page is now detached and I have goofed around folding it in various ways(waste of time)…the best was the paper plane, it flew true and straight. The binding is coming apart and most of the pages have coffee and food stains gooping things up…The good part is that I can recite many of the pages from memory so all is not lost. Good luck if you take the plunge…and have a blast!

      • Ken, why didn’t you just make a photocopy of the page to cut & fold? I tried that too, but think the phrase ‘indecision (cut) is the key to flexibility (fold) may be a reference to the trail, not the poem.

        • I call it my “experimental” copy…at least I haven’t subjected it to fire or lemon juice!

    • * * * * * * R the S asked “Does the book give a lot of subtle hints as this would be the main reason why I would want to get it . . . ” * * * * * *

      Here’s how the author put it, Ronnie –

      “There are nine clues in the poem, but if you read the book [TTOTC] there are a couple…there are a couple of good hints and there are a couple of aberrations that live out on the edge.” ff 2 Nov 2013

      No one knows if there are a lot of subtle hints in the book (nor how many “a lot” is).

      And no one knows whether those “aberrations that live out on the edge” are to be sought out or avoided (or are just there as curiosities, or for comic effect).

      I’d bet you can find it eventually for a third or less of the price you cited.

      Do you have some kind of inter-library-loan system available to you? Great system for satisfying book curiosity.


  63. Dal – Wondering what your opinion is about Forrest’s missing Scrapbook 32 post over on Mike’s blog. Do you think Forrest was actually the person to post the original thread and to post the comment on 9-21-17 with his name on it?:

    • Lisa, I can answer your question. We got the same comment here (several times), only it did not get by moderation. The clown trying to impersonate Fenn was in New Jersey or someplace ridiculous like that, I would have to go back and check his/her IP again to verify and it’s not worth my time to mess with. I can assure you it is not Fenn.

      I haven’t been over to Mike’s site for a long time. When I clicked your link I got this message from Firefox; “The owner of http://www.ttotc.com has configured their website improperly. To protect your information from being stolen, Firefox has not connected to this website.”

      So I didn’t see the post you referenced, and I removed your link to protect folks from the site. If you go over there do so at your own risk.

      • I got the same message Goofy, and did not proceed. Thanks for removing the link – How dumb can some people get? – JDA

      • Well JDA, to answer your question; pretty dumb. I can’t believe the moderator over there would let it stand. The email address used to make the comment is obviously a bogus gmail account of someone trying to impersonate Fenn.

        I usually don’t bother with these idiots, but maybe I should track this clown down (I’ve got friends in low places 🙂 ) to make an example of them.

        • Goofy.- Just got a read from my IT Director friend on your comment and warning about Mike’s site, and he explained the whole SSL certification thing to me. Now I know why my browser gave me the red flag that you got via Firefox. I guess Mike really should address that. I guess it came out of the events surrounding the Snowden stuff in 2013. But for now, I got that it was fine for me to connect to Mike’s on my device.

      • thank you Sir but the heads up is too later for me LOL NOT! i asked Dal about changing my email address so i could kill all the #*^@$#%^& i am getting in my mail box. had computer guy check computer thank God its ok but these wonderful ^%#$@*(& have my email and i am getting all kinds of bizarre emails. In my wilder days these would STILL be to wild for me. as a friend of mine said that is bad. thanks for the answer and we will avoid traps in future we hope

      • Goofy I’ve been over @ mike’s site a lot.Are you saying it’s not a safe site. Thanks for the Info.

        • Woody, it could be a configuration issue or update gone awry on Mike’s site. I got the error message and didn’t go any further, JDA also got the same message. I’m not having trouble accessing any other sites. I didn’t get any other warnings from my anti-virus or firewall software, so like I said it could be a configuration issue Mike is having.

          I haven’t been over at Mike’s for a long time but I haven’t heard of any problems from his site. But, I haven’t gone through the scripts when his site tries to load or done any trouble shooting to see what the problem is, and I don’t really have time to do that. So I removed Lisa’s link and posted the error message I got.

          It’s probably nothing nefarious, just a scripting or certificate issue, but it doesn’t hurt to be careful. I am surprised (according to Lisa) Mike allowed someone to post as Fenn without checking it out. He/she tried to post here but got thrown out with the rest of the garbage.

          That’s all I know about that.

          • Goofy, it may have been the link that Lisa provided. I did get the warning message, but I deleted the http:// from it and was able to go in with the www only. It took me to one of Lisa’s own post there but I didn’t go any further.

        • hi woodybogg i not saying it was his site but a week or so ago i was researching something on 3 -4 sites. I know i commented and left my email i use here within a few days i have been inundated with unwanted emails into my spam box. i had not had an issue in 4 or 5 years of using Dals site. i have received not one piece of spam etc. from this site. i have not updated my firewall but i am still getting some pretty ugly emails including treats.

  64. I know Fenn said he tried to think of everything and I believe he has done an excellent job with the search for his treasure chest.

    However, I’ve often wondered what would have happened if, lets say, for what ever reason he passed away on his way to the publisher?

    What was his backup plan?
    Did he have one?

    Just think of what would not be around to be studied by the searchers.

    Publishing the books;
    advertising the poem;
    setting up his web site;
    all the interviews and videos, etc………………..?????????

    Maybe this means all that is needed is the poem?
    But how would any know of the poem?

    I do not think any of this will help find the treasure chest, but who knows?

    Looking for ideas.

  65. I was thinking how the Chase could be a bit like the end of “Citizen Kane”. As he lays dying the multi-millionaire repeats softly “Rosebud…Rosebud”. Yet no one knows what he means. The movie ends as it focuses on a little sled from his childhood named “Rosebud” as it begins to burn in a bonfire.

    The word Treasure can also mean to “dearly love” something. Whether it was the sled, or what the sled represented, “Rosebud” was a valuable treasure to Kane, but not to anyone else. What he cherished the most, and thought of as he lays dying, others put on a pile to burn.

    There is a chest full of gold and jewels hidden somewhere in the Rockies. But these are not what Forrest “treasures”. His “treasures bold” are not nuggets or bills or jewels. In his scrapbooks he shares the true treasures. These treasures may be like “Rosebud”— the treasure may be something— but it represents something far more wonderful.

    I will give an example. My dad was a P-38 pilot in WW 2. I have his flying cross hidden away. He passed away in 1997, a few years after having a stroke. I “treasure” this medal supremely. It represents someone whom I respect and love dearly.

    I believe the Treasures dear to Forrest (or which represent what is dear to Forrest) are hidden in the poem somehow. Since the very beginning I have felt the poem itself is a map— it is not “describing” where the chest is hidden— it is REALLY showing (through it’s very words themselves) where the treasure is hidden.

    Somehow by discerning what Forrest “treasures” we are led to the treasure chest itself. Are 9 things Forrest treasures hidden in the poem?
    I think they may very well be IMO. And by finding these 9 things Forrest “treasures”we are led to the physical, hidden treasure itself.

    • Hi Sparrow — from the beginning, Citizen Kane has guided my thinking about where Forrest would secret Indulgence, and is the main reason I have never and would never consider New Mexico a candidate. But I bet that more than 1/4 of searchers will never search anywhere ~but~ northern New Mexico. Different strokes for different folks.

    • Good thinking there. I agree with your ideas about “treasures bold”. They are not the items in the chest. Imagination and resolve will take us there. IMHO

  66. I agree with Sparrow about the word ” Treasure “, I believe Forest refers to the chest once in the poem by using the word ” Trove “, which is what the person who picks it up off of the ground on BLM land is to refer it to, ” a trove”. Thank you

  67. Forrest’s latest book..Once Upon A While… is at the printer. The designers, Sue and Lou have provided the cover art and a link that you can email to if you’d like to be notified when they start taking orders…
    If you’ve already sent them an email you don’t have to send a second one..

    I think they saved a bundle on that Cover Art…it looks suspiciously like other “art” Forrest has drawn and submitted to this blog…just saying!!
    Could be fun!!!

    I hope there is more Forrest artwork inside the book…

    BTW…I think that fisher guy on the cover art is wearing Forrest’s belt buckle..

    Look for the cover art here:

        • I’ll smile to that Spallies, lol, following your take took me on an adventure that ended somewhere that translated to “seeds”. Don’t ask me how I got there, just know it ended with a beautiful stretch.

          • What’s with this rabbit hole. Dal will have to start a new page title new book cover.
            Where is Elmer Fudd when we need him.

          • dumb question- is the star at the end of the fishing string the bait or the catch?
            i never been fishing.
            i thought was illegal to fish at night in the sky. because owls dont taste good.
            i guess all my questions will be dumb.

            opinion mine.
            never mind.

          • Hi PDenver I dont see one X I see a bunch.. 🙂 But I think it might just be pallet knife marks from who ever painted the background???

          • I, too, Spallies. The one I spoke of is created by the flyline and the edge for which the fisherman stands. I think it’s been a lot of fun just thinking about this. The month won’t seem to go quick enough.

          • pdenver – Yes, I see the X. Reflection corresponds to a location that marks my spot over Forrest’s left shoulder as he stands fishing what I think is a double Omega in the creek….

          • pdenver and Woodybogg – And that location corresponds to where I believe a Blackfeet Indian teepee was nestled in the pines in the time of Osborne Russell. The reflection corresponds to where the crossed Lodgepole pine teepee poles would cast an X shadow on a full moon night. And this refers to our discussion over at Mike’s about the missing Forrest’s Scrapbook 32 and the Hardy Boys book. Thank you for that important
            observation , Bob.

          • Hello Lisa. In response to the Scrapbook 32 not being in existence, it was said by Dal that he did not like the number because of personal reasons (paraphrasing). I also believe the Cover Art should be under consideration that there are two other people who were involved with the creation other than Mr. Fenn.

        • if repeat i am sorry. i get headache going from screen to screen. i now see the X but that’s it. and the debates begins lol

        • if repeat i am sorry. i get headache going from screen to screen. i now see the X but that’s it. and the debates begins lol

        • i am sorry i dont see anything turning it upside down. oh how tired we are of rabbits and their crazy holes. i dont even have extra batteries if my flashlight dies again i will be in the dark. i just go around in the tunnels running into other lost searchers but because we are all in the dark i cant tell who in there it is too dark. I dont mean to split hares but i am going to skip the trip for now.

        • Hello eaglesabound you never explained why i am turning picture upside down. Which by the way can’t be done with coping said picture & saving. One more piece in TC folder m st in case our solve doesn’t work lol

      • zaphod73491, no thanks. Omegas don’t grab me.
        But I hope you’re enjoying them.

        I see anything omega-related in this hunt as just another rabbit hole.

        The above is my opinion. Yours may differ.

        • Hi Tighterfocus: I wouldn’t say I enjoy the omegas; I merely note them. The Tarryscant website doesn’t come up with Forrest’s quote when you search for it, but didn’t he say something to the effect that he would take the meaning of the double omegas (in his Colophon) to the grave? Given the proximaty of Indulgence to his originally intended grave site, I should think a searcher would be most interested in what Forrest means by his omegas.

      • And if you look close, the omega head – Double Omega’s again. Group of stars (small ones) could be an omega also – 3 Omega’s???? Makes you wonder doesn’t it? Just Jokin’ JDA

    • i like it!! 🙂

      – a simple guy fishing down/into the complexities of the universe. without a care in the world (apart from sun-stroke, mild hunger, and the imminent jolt from the orbiting star he jus’ hooked) ..whose cast line shall fall down/out/in to the unknown, where-ever it may land…

      (def no hints here folks, please move along.. 🙁 )

      ( ..wait a minute?? – is that Ursa Minor??!!)

    • To me, the cover art and title seem a bit more whimsical in theme like a children’s storybook. I wonder if this book is a product of Forrest’s earlier mention (I believe in the Collected Words podcast interview) of how he had been considering writing a children’s book, which he later decided not to pursue. Perhaps this cover and title were created during the time he was thinking about writing a children’s book, but he instead salvaged those ideas for the writing of his 3rd memoir?

      • Hi Blex — the cover reminds me a little bit of Le Petit Prince by Antoine de Saint-Exupery: a solitary, standing figure with stars. Except fishing poles not too helpful on B-612. 😉

  68. Twinkle, twinkle little star
    How I wonder where you are
    I wish I may, I wish I might
    Catch my fleeting star so bright.

    High upon some mountain crest
    Finding you, is my special quest.
    I await the day I can hold you close
    This is what I dream of most.


    • JDA – Beautiful! Wishing you diamonds in the sky:

      Twinkle, twinkle, little star.
      How I wonder what you are.
      Up above the world so high. Like a diamond in the sky.

      I have always imagined Forest in the wee hours of the morning fishing under a blanket of stars in the sky. At his favorite fishing hole. There is a fishing flashlight for that. Hoping to catch a rising star…that elusive Rainbow trout.

      I still regret that I no longer have the Indian doll thank you card Forrest sent me a few years ago, with a pen and ink drawing of said elusive Rainbow trout racing ahead of a descending osprey with outstretched talons. That must be frustrating for a star fly fisherman like Forest to see happen in front of him on the Madison. Well, at least that’s where I saw it happen…

      • Thanks Lisa, and I wish the same for you.

        Sorry about the misplaced card. But it still exists in your memories, and memories are some of the most precious gifts – they last forever – JDA

        • JDA – my good friend’s mother said exactly the same thing when I told her the story. Hers was the beautifully painted watercolor cherry tree included in Forrest’s 87th birthday grove. Although I lost all of my worldly possessions kept in that storage unit, I often remember special objects like that one. And a very large Diamond has already figured into my potential success on The Chase. Thank you for your kind wishes. Someday I will tell that story….

        • Lisa: storage units are one of America’s uniquely and undeniably horrible evils. People who use them are victims of an industry that preys on the mentally ill. I am very sorry for your lost. 🙁

  69. To me the HoB has nothing to do with a person or thing. It’s a place on a map and has nothing to do with man made structure(s). What we all know is we are working with a map.

    As I interpret maps in the Rockies it is of natural landscapes such as Brown canyon, valley, forests, cliffs, lakes etc. That is what I look for. You can put in below all of them. I also truly believe indulgence is hidden in a remote area that most people don’t normally visit.

    As always my comments are IMO, IMHO and with a smile :0)

    • Sorry Charlie M;

      I have to disagree/agree. hoB CAN be seen on a map, so it is a thing, but not a part of the natural landscape.

      In a remote area that most people don’t normally visit – well – remote area – agree. Most people don’t normally visit – Well, yes and no. A place that people who love the out-of-doors would visit – yes. A place that Joe couch-potato might visit – no. JMHO JDA

      • Hi JDA – In a short clip before The Lure screening Forrest said that a lot of people have been within 500′ of the treasure. Is your spot where a lot of people go?

    • Hi JDA: based on your past descriptions of a somewhat lengthy foot-journey to the general area you’ve been investigating, how do you think “lots of people” have gotten “within 500 feet of the treasure” while only a few have gotten within 200 feet?

      I can understand how lots of people could come within 500′ of the treasure if it was possible to drive on a road that happened to come that close. But the way you’ve described your spot, it doesn’t sound like that’s possible (since you are walking fairly long distances). After all, if you could drive within 500 feet, I wouldn’t see the need to walk 3 or 4 miles … unless that nearest road is hundreds of feet above or below the treasure’s location, and a long, roundabout walk is the only easy way to get there.

      • Hi Zap;

        You say, ” how do you think “lots of people” have gotten “within 500 feet of the treasure” while only a few have gotten within 200 feet?”

        Where are you getting this information that “Lots of people” have been within 500′ but “Only a few” have been within 200′?

        I just spent 15 minutes reading every quote regarding people getting within 200′ or 500′ in JCM’s “Chasing Words of Forrest Fenn by topic” Only one quote said, “More than a few were within 500′” Most comments reference “a few,” “several”, “searchers”, ” some” etc whether referencing to either 500′ or 200′ – SOOOOO I question your initial statement.

        To answer your question though, I would venture to say that an equal number of people have been within 200′ and 500′ of Indulgence. There is nothing about the terrain “Near” Indulgence that would cause some to be within 500′, but not close the gap to 200′. Those that were within 500′ were on a trail going from point :”A”: to point “B”. At point “X” on the trail, they were 500′ away (and did not know it). At point “Y” they were 200′ away (and still did not know it)… and they kept on hiking up the trail heading to point “B”.

        All the while, enjoying the magnificent scenery, and enjoying an exhilarating hike in the wilds of Wyoming.
        JMHO – JDA

      • Hi JDA — JCM’s fine document doesn’t have everything, particularly more recent verbal statements from Forrest. The relevant quote is from “The Lure” post-screening Q&A with Forrest. My transcript:

        Q: “How do you know searchers have been within 200 feet of the treasure?”

        Forrest answers: “Well, because there … people have told me exactly where they were, and that’s the only reason I know. And, and, that 200 feet I think is pretty accurate. But there weren’t very many people within 200 … lots of people within 500 feet of the treasure. But, uh, the people that were with(in) 200 feet didn’t know that they were that close to the treasure, and they walked right on by. And of course I would never tell ‘em that, ‘cuz they’d, uh, they’d try to remember where they had been.”

        So clearly Forrest makes a distinction between the two distances.

        • Yes, Forrest seems to imply that more people have been within 500′ than the number that was within 200′. Don’t know how to explain Forrest’s words – Guess you should ask him. I stand by my answer.
          Thanks for the resource – JDA

        • Zap…that’s a good quote right there. This one is not commonly used…like the others. It does clearly differentiate. This also brings to mind that folks off in the boonies searching in non common search zones…are probably so far off the mark it isn’t funny. Thanks for bringing it up….

        • Zap. I have struggled with the “lots of people within 500 feet”. If we take Forrest at his word, it does suggest a trail or road of some kind within 500 feet of the treasure. Another possibility, however, is that the 500 feet comment is referring to vertical distance. That is the lowest elevation that a plane is allowed to fly above the ground (if I read the restrictions correctly). So, people in private planes could have flown over the treasure site. But, no matter how you look at it, that 500 foot quote has weighed heavily on me.

          • I shore thought old Fenn settled that vertical bidness a while back??


            Are you saying Bruce was close?

            “No, I’m not saying who was close. If I said Bruce was close he’d go back and step off exactly 500 feet and pick up the treasure……..”

            Wal, it shore looks like he’s sayin’ ole Bruce could WALK that EXACTLY 500 feet, to the treasure. Guess that means Brucie warn’t in one o them aeroplanes?

            (If’n he was, then he ain’t gonna need but one step to cover that 500 foot!! heehee)

            If ole Bruce can walk it, pretty sure I can too? Jus how one ole redneck LISTENS to thangs……….loco

        • Thanks, Ken — I figured it was a quote that many searchers might be unaware of. Forrest clearly differentiates the 500-footers from the 200-footers. One conclusion I reached from this is that if one is searching a long way from “civilization,” they are almost certainly in the wrong spot. That’s what makes the 500-foot remark so helpful as a filter: if you can’t reasonably imagine how lots of people could come within 500 feet of a spot, but very few within 200 feet, then something is probably amiss.

          • yes…exactly. Also concerning this comment from Fenn…I did notice his clear use of “people” vs. searchers.
            We could assume he is talking about searchers exclusively…but that too may be off kilter…and telling.

          • OK Zap, I can think of one reason Forrest might have said what he said.

            In the general vicinity of where I think Indulgence is secreted, there is a geologic feature that MIGHT have attracted a “few” people to leave the trail and go look at it. They would have been within 500′ when they left the trail to go see this geologic feature. Once at the geologic feature, they would then have been within the 200′ mark. So, for the “many” who walk this trail (and therefore come within 500′) and who do not leave the trail to get a closer look at this geologic feature, they are among the “many” For the ones that do get off of the trail and go look at this geologic feature, they are among the “few”. Just a guess at why the difference. JDA

          • C.H.: yes, the vertical component is a possibility. Any “thoroughfare” that gets at least some episodic traffic and unavoidably directs people past a point that comes within 500 feet of the treasure would do the trick. I think the airplane angle is a little too far out there — not sure I’d want to be flying a plane 500′ off the ground within a canyon (not that “take it in the canyon down” requires the chest to actually be in or even near a physical canyon).

        • Zaps – in my expert fuzzy-logic-ness, lot’s more people would follow an existing trail than would venture along an non-trailed creek or river, esp if they’re unaware how close they were to the TC

          so, if i had any money to bet, i’d pick the TC is 500ft from a hiking trail, and 200ft from a small creek, imho

          having said that tho, Tom B makes a good point about poss vertical distances too ..darn it! 🙁

  70. “When you wish upon a star
    Makes no difference who you are
    Anything your heart desires will come to you”

  71. For those interested – New post on Jenny’s site. A collection of Q & A’s with Forrest from 2015. Well worth a look – IMHO – JDA

      • Franklin, I’m not JDA but if you go to “searcher discussions” here on dal’s site, then scroll down to “Jenny kiles questions” Then scroll to the bottom JDA has posted a link that will take you right to it….
        Have a great night… until next time… see ya

  72. It is interesting that Forrest has the Southern Cross Constellation (Crux) on the bottom right corner of the new book. Well, it looks awfully like it.

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