The Key Word…Part Four


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“Many have given serious thought to the clues in the poem but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key.”

The above is a quote from Forrest. This page is where we can discuss what that key word might be.




619 thoughts on “The Key Word…Part Four

  1. The key word appears only once for good measure,
    But using it twice will lead right to the treasure.

    • please dont confuse a confused mind we or i need to find the place that fits a fathers journey and a sons landing if the right wwh the treasure is below and it may be the key but we cant mess with the poem winter has hit the rockies so be wise and go prepared be safe

      • but we cant be in a cave or mountain or anything that obstructs our view me must see some things cant be behind a wall or rock at the bottom of a caynon might have to peek around to find the location

    • Heidini = Clever name and a nod to another great puzzlemaster/showman—-Harry Houdini?

      “Many have given serious thought to the clues in the poem but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key.”

      It is logical from this statement that since FF is talking about the clues in the poem, and both the poem and the clues are made up of words, the word that is key is indeed in the poem or else no one would be in tight focus of such.

      For contrast, if along the lines somewhere FF had shared his grocery list with us, tight focus on bananas as the 8th item on such list which contains a total of 120 words making up a list of exactly 42 items does us how much real good in TTOTC?

      Tarry Scant ID#2971 = Basically, don’t make it harder than it is.


      • Bowmarc,
        But WhatIF “but” means alternative?
        Serious thoughts to the clues “but” the word that is key is in the book, line of thinking.
        There are many ways to think about this magical word that we all know…
        Must be in the poem because the poem has all the information.
        Must be in the book because it helps with the clues.
        It could be two or more words that describe or mean a single word… possibly the answer for tired and weak? or new and old? or in the wood…

        Here’s what I’d like to know about the word that is key… Does it have anything to do with the “important possibility” no one seems to be thinking about?

        * ~’nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve.’
        Analyze can mean tight focus, right? Examine Methodically…

        • Seeker – To both answer your question, and misuse a quote by FF to do so, “In a word-Yes.”

        • At least a couple of searchers have gotten past the first clue without knowing the “important possibility”. So, what is the “important possibility”?

          • Tom – I never said I got past the first clue, just that I have had my “what took you so long moment regarding TTOTC”.

            The first clue is still the hardest.


        • Hi Seeker,
          I read some of your prior posts and noticed that that you are using ‘WhatIF’ phrase quiet often. I assume when you are using it, you are referring to Mr Fenn’s statement ‘have you consider what if’ in one of his scrapbooks and then again in one of his weekly words? Have you ever speculated on what did he meant by this phrase?

          • LlteIndianGrl,
            The original response from fenn was about a post Dal made [ dart throwing something ]… The WhatIF’s are nothing more than possibilities of thought…
            There are many WWWH in the RM’s right? Well, are we to just toss a dart at the map and hope we get the right one… or think about the WhatIF’s there is something fenn placed in the poem that eliminates all the other places?
            My one thought is that WWWH relates to hoB… I’d go as far as saying HLAWH might be the same place [ not just close, but the same ].

            Conventional thinking by many have a great distance between clues [ some have miles between some clues ]. But WhatIF all the clues [ or most ] are within 500′ or so? Or all the clues are within a relatively small area within the hoB? And why searchers walked by all the remaining clues and the chest, after solving the first two clues…

            LOL… that’s what I think. What fenn meant -?- who knows.

      • “Tight” focus. Should we key in on the word or the phrase “tight focus” to determine the key word?
        At this point mine is “tired”.


        • i for eye you must see and listen ok lets roll with it ive been up ive been down there is one place i have found that has a hob wwh and but is it a memory of his quest or is it he that he lived there or was there something special that was a chieved by this person named BROWN WE KNOW MOLLY AND MORE ok the twister is in the eye but a solve is far away
          at a ladder that one must climb with a brave soul but its a dead end id guess but im looking just cause im alive to do it. ty mr FENN For pushing my life into the learning path. its a good thing to learn how others accomplish their tasks

          • every one that knows me knows i admire FENNS WORK I OFTEN ASK MYSELF WOULD I OR COULD I PART with myself or my work if i had created such a life where i could give back in such a way I THINK I COULD I TRULY HOPE OTHERS FOLLOW IN hIS FOOT STEPSthen there is always what if you found it

          • in the eye of the solve those words just hit my mind words do that to me the follow through lets take a moment and think what last forever dirt rocks and maybe folklore if the story last

    • IMO, Forrest’s “word that is key” is not one of the poem’s 166 words. But the word is nevertheless “in” the poem.

      • Hello zap. Do you suggest it’s like a “Seek-a-Word” puzzle in the poem, or the “word that is key” is in the definition of a word that is in the puzzle?

          • By SF interviews, do ou mean the live videos recorded at Collected Works bookstore? There have been many interviews done in Santa Fe (e.g. On the Road with Charlie). I’ve never specifically gone digging into the Collective Works bookstore videos to see if he has ever said the word, but I’m guessing he hasn’t. I suppose I could go to tarryscant, pull up the transcript and see if it’s in there anywhere.

          • Zap, what is the name of a puzzle where the solution is hidden plain sight? For some reason, I can’t remember the word. Thx

          • Hi JBL — you might be thinking of the word steganography. In steganography, the message may not be “in plain sight” — the whole point of stego is to conceal something in otherwise ordinary-looking information (be it a picture, text, song, whatever). The intended recipient knows what to look for, whereas everyone else is oblivious.

            In one respect, this is better than a cipher: with a cipher you KNOW there is a secret message, but you don’t know how to decode it. With stego, you aren’t even aware there IS a secret message to be found.

          • Hi Oz10 – Oh! I haven’t watched those videos in quite a long time. I’ll give ’em another look/listen to see if my key word is in there. As you point out, it isn’t clear whether Dal is suggesting there might be a key in there, or if it’s Forrest suggesting that.

          • I mentioned it to be cautious. Though I don’t think Dal or whoever wrote the heading will take it upon themselves to claim something that ff didn’t approve.

            And while you do that, how many lines in the first stanza are needed to uncover your key? You did mentioned once that not everything there is important.

          • Hi Oz10 — I finally made it through all the Sante Fe Interviews. I think I last watched them in the summer of 2015, so it was good to make another pass. As I suspected, Forrest never says my keyword. He provides an Easter Egg for it in one of the videos, but that’s all.

          • Zap, thanks for the answer. I guess there is more than one key then. Back to my question, how many lines in the first stanza did you need to uncover your key word?

          • Sorry to jump in on this poat, but as of this day OZ…IMO – the first line in the 1st stanza is my first of two key words I have found to exist in the poem.

            Are there more or less….beats me….I’m still a seacher and not a finder.

            Good luck.

          • Tim, thanks for sharing. Okay, words not in the poem but extracted from it.

            I also have one from the first line and the 2nd line defines it. I pulled a second word from the 4th line but not sure if applies. Nothing from the 3rd line so far. You previously said you found another on the 5th stanza?

          • No I did not.

            Thennagain, I only believe that stanzas 2, 3, & 4 are the actual directions to the chest.

            MO – stanzas 1, 5 and 6 are in order of mY thinking…
            #1 – introduction to the chase
            #4 – explains why FF his the chest
            #5 – gives direction to the finder on legalities


          • Tim, I also believe that most of the clues are between 2 and 4 but there must also be important hint/clues in the other stanzas. If someone finds the chest today but the location was not told, will it not be necessary to have the full poem still to find that location? If we throw away the introduction and legalities (1,5,6) aren’t we discounting a lot of words and messing with the poem? That is how I see it anyways…

          • Oh OZ…don’t misunderstand me.

            I haven’t dismissed those stanzas, as I believe they provide hints to a primary location that one needs to have BOTG.

            “I wouldn’t discount any word” (paraphrased).

            I actually believe the first stanza holds one key word….one that opens up the entire search area.

            Stanzas 2-3-4 is the map to the chest.
            – IMO – I see that there are actually 11 clues, although, I can probably classify two of them to be hints. Since I don’t know, to me, they are considered clues to me, because they fall within the confines of the map.

            In stanza 5 – no key words or “clues” for me, but a couple of “hints” to where one needs to go. How FF did it is there and then includes FF describing the chest as a legal term – “trove” – to further help the seeker in the future. … also explains in some detail why it was done.

            In stanza 6 – we see additional “hints” to what type of weather/environment one must prepare for in order to seek. Sort of like a personal nudge to others, saying, “Go on now, Go get it!”

            Of course, there are probably at least 10 other primary ways to look at the poem….that is the way and how I do.

            IMO – Forrest new the location before hand, so really didn’t need to have BOTG, but when he realized that he needed to have EXACTING words, he took a trip to the location possibly multiple times for all we know.

            In my view, I’ve visualized FF driving through the wilderness looking at his surroundings and writing down the scenery he sees as he moves forward. The poem just gives that characterisation. Whether or not that is the case, only FF knows, but I do feel it is a part of the WHY and HOW.

            I also think he didn’t make trail markers until he hid the chest….basically “killing two birds with one stone” – one “kill” to make the markers, the other “kill” to place the chest. Two important parts of the map/hunt. Why not do them at the same time?
            – you,limit you trips to,the site, therefore, limiting others seeing you.

            I’m also in the camp that he drove to the spot, got out of his car, twice, and then made two trips to the final spot.

            BUT… he drove to the spot, he made the markets for the trail. Getting in and out of a vehicle in the mountains can be very tiresome, because how altitude affects the breathing.

            I can see a why and a what relationship to “I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak.”…. So extrapolating this with my search area, it still fits.

            Seriously OZ….one needs to stop thinking like they want and begin thinking like FF wants….be simple, use imagination, and do so with the “wisdom of a sage”.

            How deep in your mind and thought can you go?

            Have you ever meditated on the poem? Just sit quietly and review the poem in your mind over and over again?

            Let yourself dig deep into your mind and try to visualize the road that leads you to the treasure.

            Oh……I know that you will receive various images and thoughts while doing so, but if you quiet them down, and you will, you should be able to recall some of those images…..and possibly use them.

            Let the world energy guide you….and then flip the switch and apply the “magic” to a place you have visualize.

            “Go on now, go get it!”


            Good luck!

          • Tim, that was clear enough. I’m onboard with your explanation of where clues and hints are located within the poem, and I hope that is the way it turns out. I will only take exception with -brave and in the wood- which I think it is a clue and not a hint (imo).

            As far as meditating with the poem, I tried in the beginning. I don’t remember getting that deep understanding, only saw the cryptic message.

            Again, thanks for sharing all of that.

          • Oz10: since I’ve shared the answer to your question with others, and perhaps even here a while back, it’s two.

          • Zap – Great post about meditating about Forrest’s trajectory, when he prepared to hide the bronze chest. You wrote, “killed two birds with one stone.” I hope they were Meadow larks. That made me think of his San Lazaro Pueblo book and this picture:


            I have always believed that Forrest put one of those rocks behind his head in his backpack to prepare for the weight of the chest on previous trips out to my hidey spot. And then there is the picture of the Indian girl in the same book, kneeling and hiding food under a similar rock, in a hidden food cache in the ground.

          • Hi Lisa — just an FYI that the meditation and “kill two birds” post was Tim’s/Zosorocks.

        • Zap,
          Regarding your post on steganography, it brought to mind one of my favorite lines in Jump-starting the Learning Curve in TTOTC:

          One day my teacher asked, “Forrest Fenn, don’t you know anything?” I replied, ” Miss Ford, I don’t even suspect anything.”

          I can relate.

        • By the way Zap, the reason I asked you for acronyms was because you seemed to be making a case for it when you drew the associations between nf, btftw and for whom the bell tolls and all other instances where you found some combination of those letters.

          Did you consider it at one point and then abandoned it?

          • Hi Oz10: I understand why you would have thought that, though there is a difference between acronyms and abbreviations like TTOTC or NF, BTFTW. Acronyms are pronounceable as words (e.g. ASCII, SCUBA, POTUS). I have suggested in the past that searchers investigate Masquerade to get a flavor for the kinds of things that are done in armchair treasure hunts (of which Kit Williams’ book was the first).

        • Lisa;

          I think that the picture of the Indian Lady getting grain out of her food cache tells you more about how Indulgence is secreted than any other ATF comment Forrest has made. Like the old saying goes – “A picture is worth a thousand words.”

          Couple this PIC with the “Graveyard Logic” piece, and I think you have an exact picture. – But that is just the thinking of an old fart that has only two working brain cells, and one of those is on the blink most of the time – JDA

      • I agree Zap. There are not only the words in the poem, but as the old saying goes – “It is what is in between the lines that counts”. JDA

          • need the other letter values to find “X”. 🙂
            or, alpha-bet, who can find the 4 leaf clover? lol.

          • I’ve been convinced that the clues will help us find the X. It is interesting though that X is the 24th letter and there are 24 lines.

          • Hi Aaron.

            “write/draw an ‘X’ “….

            ..but where, huh? Oh yeah, that is right…on a “good map”! :o)

            “I sound like I am talking in circles.”
            – sound familiar?

            This will be my winter project this coming season.

            I’m going to go to try and draw an “X” on a “map” – like Forrest said – but I will do this by using all the details and information I have accumulated and acquired over 5 years. Probably plotting out different locations I have discovered and then see where it leads me.

            I’m just going to let my “spiritual energy” take over…*smiles…..and go with the that synergy flow. I have found that when I am just relaxed and focussed in pretty much anything, I 52nd to receive all kinds of wild brainstorming ideas and then after jottong them down, and eliminsting the useless, I find I can narrow things down to a bare minimum and work with something statistilcally stable.

            Do I have a “good” map….I’ll know afterwards, huh? LOL

            Difficulty-land has been interesting.

            I will say this, I do have a location, and this new effort will hopefully give me my final validation I am looking for at solving this puzzle correctly.

            If successful, I should be well within a 50 ft radius or smaller – because I already know the target area I have selected…..if my efforts pan out, the way I am hoping for, I should probably walk away successfully.

            Time will tell… we all know it will.

            Good luck to you.

            Be the chest.

          • Always….safety is too priority.

            Sheez…I want to be able to enjoy the treasure!!


            Good luck!

      • That is a good idea. It could be in a sentence without being a word in the sentence itself. What a Fenny thing to do! Great, and I thought the key word was “treasures”.

        • Hi Dr. Coffee (takes a sip) – all of them, IMO, unless you have really extensive knowledge of the geography of all four states.

    • Mornin’
      But, I’ll have any kinda day I like want… thank you very little.
      {insert smile face here}

      • Sounds like someone rolled out the wrong side of the bed.
        I’m happy you’re still taking on air 🙂

    • I agree, Michael.

      in there
      in the canyon down
      in below the home of Brown
      in peace
      in the wood


      • I agree that Indulgence is “IN” a secure place, but doubt that “in” is the word that is key. I think that there is a much better word, when you look at the totality of Forrest’s life, and what has been important to him. – TRY and STAY SAFE ALL – JDA

    • I Agree that the key word is “in”. I don’t know when or where FF said something to the effect of, that from the blaze don’t miss/forget the 1st clue. I think the first clue is “As I have gone alone in there”
      J A Kraven I like the way Your looking at that! I might not have looked deep enough?

  2. IMO the key word is in the poem and it defines a specific geographical region that unlocks the 1 and only WWWH.

    • Region?
      That doesn’t seem like a ‘place’ for the 1 and only wwwh. The RM’s are a region, YSP is a region, Little Indy lives in a region of Asia…
      Can you give an example of how a single wwwh would be found in these type of areas?

          • Bowmarc, Copper, Chris
            For past few days I’ve been off-the-grid so to speak. Think I owe you a thanks and explanation.

            Part 1: In retrospect, my posting ”hear” was unintended and I think subliminal. Seldom do I post just a single word except “sub” to subscribe. I had recently made a couple posts using the phrase “here hear” and might have meant to type ‘here’ as in present. But that was just one thing distracting me at that time.

            Part 2: Recently, my wife has been traveling to-and-fro Chicago. After greeting and welcoming her home from her last trip, I went into my man-cave for a couple hours. A bit later I emerged to find her asleep on our Davenport. I got a coffee and went back to my man-cave. A couple hours later I emerged again to find her sitting-up and she asked “do you hear that?” It was so quiet you could hear a leaf drop. Then I heard a few birds chirping and asked if that’s what she meant. She replied “no, they just started” and she went on to explain she had been awake for about 15 minutes and heard nothing but silence and her heart beating. “No noisy people, no jets, no cars, no horns, no sirens, no wind’. She went on to explain she hadn’t slept well while in Chicago. We just sat and held hands for a few minutes saying nothing. I heard my own heart beating and for a split-second swore I heard hers, too! I made her a cup of tea and me another coffee. Then we quietly chatted for a bit about family, life and other random topics. After a bit, I kissed her on the cheek and she left to go unpack. I went back into my man-cave and that’s when I posted “hear”, I now think subliminally in relation to what just happened. My mind and my heart saying to me to just be still and listen – “hear”.

            At first glance I didn’t understand your responses. I reread mine and (duh) the dots connected. When I venture outdoors, I look for spots to just sit for a spell and listen. I especially enjoy sitting on a rock along or in a stream with my boots off and feet soothed by the cold, running waters. In those rare moments nature and I can be quite still. Sometimes when I listen very hard, even the rushing waters run silent. Most often, my greatest challenge is to just quite my thoughts and imagine. I wonder if this is what FF meant by tight focus.

            “Hear”? Only FF knows for certain.

            Chase well…Stay safe…

          • KidUtah – It is nice to “Hear” a story like yours. We get so caught up in our daily lives, that we forget to “hear” the world of “Silence”. I am quite hard of hearing, and I consider it a blessing in a way. I have hearing aids, but “forget” to wear them quite frequently – I enjoy the silence – much to other’s chagrin. JDA

          • JDA
            Thanks. You are one I like to hear from! These days, I don’t have the best of hearing either. Not only do my wife, kids and grandkids remind me that on occasion, but I unfortunately sense it more and more to be true. Thanks again. Chase well…Stay safe…

          • Thank you for sharing your story, KidUtah. While being in the moment of your story, I could feel myself unwind and burdens lifted off my shoulders. Again, thank you.

          • pdenver
            Thank you! Nice to hear sometimes I have a good affect on someone.
            Chase well…Stay safe…

          • “Man Cave”

            …I call mine “The War Room” because I’m using the room for my own leisure, and it is my central HQ for buying and selling on eBay.

            The War Room has stuck and I now can’t see it as a “man cave” any more….LOL

            Would love to post a pic or two, but not intelligent enough to figure it out…*winks*…or if it even possible.


          • Kid that is beautiful. I believe we are to listen. The loud. wind, rain and fire was not heard, only the quiet whisper.

          • :o)
            Thanks…believe it or not…my wife named it this for some odd reason…maybe the disarray that really doesn’t exist….because I know where everything is at.


          • Tim (ZosoRocks) – Seeker
            Yes – a man-cave. It tain’t much but it’s MINE! I believe you Tim (ZosoRocks). My wife named mine, as well! If I recall correctly, it first began when we had a (er) slight misunderstanding about something and she suggested (banished?) me to “go downstairs to your man-cave”. Afterwards, it just became part of our everyday speak. Even my grandkids know and call it as “papa’s man-cave”! Thanks.
            Chase well…Stay safe…

          • Bowmarc
            Thank you. I’ll stick with man-cave. As IMO I think FF thinks, we’ve had far too many wars for not far enough lasting peace.
            Chase well…Stay safe…

          • LOL…maybe my wife didn’t think “Peace Room” suited the “supposed chaos”.


            …as long as everyone….*singing*……”everyone needs a little time away, a hol-i-day, in their maaaan-cave.”



          • @Tim – Yes, funny how they try to help us by rearranging something for us, then get mad when we ask them where something is because they moved it in the first place!

            @Kid – Yes, I agree—cave is more up FF’s alley, and too many wars (been 3 years since my nephew and his unit lost theirs to an IED).

  3. The key word must contain at minimum: one uppercase letter, one lowercase letter, one number, one punctuation symbol, and must be at least 17 characters long.

    It’s also required to be replaced with a new key word every month.

    • That gave me a chuckle this morning Blex. Good one.

      As Lugnutz pointed out on 10 November and is something I’ve been working on myself for a while now, there are many words within the poem, so the question is which key word is Forrest referring to? One hidden in plain sight, or an actual poem word?

      For example, “The answer I already KNOW”. Which “know” word might be key? Know, no, or now, or maybe even “won” if you subscribe to the mirror theory?


      • Thanks, Pinatubocharlie. I’m in the camp of the key word being a word that plainly appears in the poem, but that’s just my opinion and I can’t provide any further justification as to why I believe this, though I would not be surprised if it turned out to be a word with multiple meanings.

  4. I have a word that is key in the poem that is very different then most would venture to guess. Rather it is the right key word only time will tell.

  5. I too believe that I have the key word.
    Although I don’t believe it leads directly to the chest but unlocks another level.
    I’m seriously looking for someone to partner up with. I have come to somewhat of a road block, I have a mountain of information but I’m unsure of what direction to take it.
    I’m well past the ff, twentyone to be exact and it’s mind boggling.
    If anyone wants to talk, leave your email and I’ll get back to you.

  6. The key word to me keeps bouncing around the “end”. We are told where to begin then bounced around halting, ceasing and taking. Omega rock formations are everywhere the imagination can shape a shadow at the right time of day. Every story, every clue, every life has a begin and an end. Just my opinion but this whole adventure is about enhancing that flutterby ride to the end.


  7. I like to think out of the box, and use my imagination in a practical way re: the actual meaning of words / synonyms, etc. I think it’s the only way this safe is going to be cracked.

    1 – Key word…”found”? i.e. as in ‘foundry’ = to make something. Does the poem tell us how to make something that when placed over “a good map,” we “look quickly down” (through the thing we’ve “found”) at a specific spot on the map?

    2 – WWWH… Warm water halts when it rises through the air in droplets, reaches cold air, and then forms clouds.

    3 – “But tarry scant …” “But” can easily mean ‘but for the.’ In other words, leave the tarry scant (i.e. Scant = a flat object used to cover a hole)…just take the chest.

    Have made 3 BOTG trips to WY so far. So much fun. On one trip, my sister and I located a (very clear) omega (looked like it was drawn with tar – I am not sh*tting you) on top of a rock scant right next to a dam. Sadly, nothing underneath. In hindsight, an 80 year old man would not have been able to get to it.

    So, I’m putting the above out there for what it’s worth. If it helps someone find the treasure, I’d like at least one gold coin. Good luck!

  8. Many searchers utilize the poem without ever reading the book (TTOTC). And that is fine as Forrest has said that is a possible way to find the chest. So, many are studying the words in the poem…
    Forrest tells us that there are hints in TTOTC book that will help someone understand the clues in the poem…
    With that said, if the book provides hints that will help to understand the clues in the poem, wouldn’t that make it a Key of sorts? An answer key if you will?
    If many are using just the poem…and fewer are utilizing the ‘book’ as well as the poem…then the ‘keyword’ very well could be the ‘BOOK’.

    • Jeremy ~ ‘An answer key if you will?’
      If true… wouldn’t the poem that has all the “information” to find the chest, tell us, without any ambiguous meaning or guessing?

      If you are brave [ Meaning; to take on a challenge ] and in the wood [ made of wood, paper ~ not plural ]… I give you “title” to the gold?? TTOTC

  9. Blex,

    Earlier you said “At any rate, you present some other possibilities regarding the double omega. I could easily see it as representing the 2 times his plane was shot down during the war, for example. Whatever personal secret is behind Forrest’s double omegas, I do not think it is necessary to know in order to find the Treasure.”

    IMO i have 3 very good and related double omegas. One answers the riddle of circles and beginning/end and is directly connected to one of the others in terms of proximity and how they can be used together. I’ve searched the area twice now and though I’ve kind of moved on to somewhere else for the time being, I honestly think there is something I’ve missed in the poem confirming that is the right area. I’m just too dense to figure it out though I continue to struggle to do so, assuming I’m right in the first place.

    We’ve had over 8″ of rain where in live in the Pacific NW (the Hoh Rain Forest is closeby) just this month (89″ for the year) and there is no sign of it letting up for at least a week, maybe longer, so being retired I’ll have a lot of time to read (study) – think (analyze) – read, etc. which reminds me, I need to order those books.

    Take care………pinatubocharlie

    • Welcome to TTOTC and hoD.

      As my names implies, I tend to favor Utah. When I wore a younger man’s clothes, I often traveled the beautiful Seattle and Pacific Northwest areas, but I never made it up your way. Then about 5 years ago, my wife and I went to cruise the Inside Passage sailing from Seattle, WA to Skagway, AK. Four days before, we traveled to Port Angeles and met some friends who ferried over from Victoria, BC. Together we traveled and stayed at a B&B in Forks, WA. It was May and we brought along unusually warm 70F weather and lots of sunshine. When we hiked the Hoh Rainforest there was light, refreshing rainfall although I swear not a cloud in the sky. I think it was the light wind blowing moisture held by the canopy of the trees. It was a wonderful experience.

      One morning we visited La Push beach and on our way out were invited by a member of the Quileute tribe to stay and join in a celebration / feast that honored their elders. As I stood in the tribal community center I spotted an old 1900s b&w photograph of many chiefs / leaders. The handwritten caption quoted one leader and if I recall correctly read “Learn all that you can from the white man then use it to defeat him”. The afternoon was filled with great fellowship, food and cultural events. One of the most memorable times I’ve ever had

      We also hiked the amazing Cape Flattery boardwalk / trail – WOW! – and visited the nearby Makah Museum and Cultural Center. Other places we visited included Lake Crescent / Marymere Falls, Hurricane Ridge, driving along Strait of Juan de Fuca and Port Townsend. All a thrill in my lifetime.

      ps. Yes – Twilight had a part to bring us there – my wife a HUGE fan and me admittedly a bit, as well. Alice my favorite and my wife even arranged a surprise meeting for me with Ashley Greene at a sequel’s premiere showing. We’d love to revisit your area for its own natural beauty, peoples and thrills.

      • Now I’m really jealous… first ya have your very own man cave… now you met Ashley ‘the neck nibbler’ Green also?
        All I have is a tool shed and a family of squirrels. I’m moving to Utah…

      • Thank you or the warm welcome KidUtah, but I’ve been hanging around here at the HoD for almost a year now.

        Sounds like your visit to Forks, La Push, and the Hoh Rain Forest was wonderful, and the weather even cooperated. I used to fish the rivers in that area for winter steelhead, Silver and King salmon with a lot and very found memories of the Sol Duc, Calawa, Bogachiel, and Hoh Rivers.

        Even though we do get a lot of rain around here on the west side of the Cascades, we also have some truly beautiful weather too. My advice to folks coming this way is to shoot for late July and August to greatly improve your odds of nice warm and sunny weather.

        You didn’t mention Rialto Beach which is in the Olympic National Park and not far from La Push. It’s a great beach to explore, especially at low tide if memory serves.

        And if you do come out again and enjoy hiking, Staircase Campground (Olympic National Park too) near Mt. Washington, has a beautiful trail for day hiking, and is just down the road from our home. Mt. St. Helens is a wonderful day trip as is Mt. Rainier.

        Take care……… pinatubocharlie

        • Pinatubocharlie
          Thank you for your kind words. As a young man, I traveled to Mt. Rainer and Mt. St. Helens, the former on a few ski trips with Seattle friends, the latter a couple years before her 1980 temper tantrum. I remember my Mt. Rainer skiing days being cold, windy, wet and icy. Fun mostly cause’ of my trip companions. I much preferred Utah’s world renowned white powder under warming sunshine. Although, I did enjoy racing moguls in close proximity to one another; we called it “speed bumping”, and now that I mention it, a few facial scrapes and burns come back in mind (ouch!).

          Heading to see Mt. St. Helens, I recall driving a blackened dark-brown road paved with (I thought) lava rock and pausing roadside at a small castle made of lava rock complete with towers. From atop, a panoramic view of the volcano complete with a snow-capped summit, and below its darkened slopes, a wide valley filled with tall-standing pines. Beautiful yet I still sense a foreboding feeling of doom & gloom at any moment.

          As a young man, I’d travel from Utah to Seattle and throughout Washington about 8-10 times a year. I quickly grew to love the Pacific Northwest, especially Emerald City. Before my very first trip, I envisioned vast, thick forests of giant pines and ferns, and everyone living in cedar log built homes! I was a bit concerned when I first drove across eastern Washington’s high sierra country – I thought I had been misled! On another cruise to Alaska, my wife and I spent a few fantastic days beforehand in the Emerald City, just a few blocks away from the Jimi Hendrix studio. Today, after 40+ years traveling across this country and some years living / traveling abroad, we both agree Seattle and its surrounding area is our second most favorite place. I’ll leave it for you to imagine our first favorite place.

          When in Forks, we wanted to visit Rialto Beach but lack of time did not allow. Should I ever roam your way, I’ll keep in mind Staircase Campground near Mt. Washington and you.

          Dal and you are kinda neighbors in close proximity. Maybe the two of you should meet once upon a while to chat over coffee..

          Thanks again.

  10. A Daring Doooo, an idea proffered.

    It seems to me that we have all been efforting a solve, however we all (self-included) continually retreat to methods that well……… just have not worked.

    As the dog returns to its vomit, we continually address the same issues, repeatedly, using methods that have been worn thread bare with no real fruition. This is because we “know” that some people have “come within 100s of yards”, yet we know not who, or how. We have hints of a map, so naturally there must be a key, not to be confused with a legend or a table (which should be somewhere if we are truly working with a map). The Key is simply “an explanatory list of symbols” the exact thing that has been driving us all batty.

    There are 166 words in the poem (including repeats) 159 if you eliminate the 7 possessive “I”s, ___106 words if you eliminate the repeats.

    Which is weird?

    If you eliminate all cancelable with each other most are opposites of each other.
    I / me / my (these could be eliminated in the possessive “I”s YOU
    AS IS
    BE WHY
    IF CAN

    GET THE IDEA ??????

    p.s I am putting out an old e.g. there are issues with this that I didn’t like some of the combinations, one makes paddle canceled and walk live meaning . I just wanted to see reception comments…. Befor also the numeric of the poem get interesting when you count the words, letters, and locations of the possessive Is and the “I”s as a whole. Also 24 lines in 6 paragraphs should be 4 lines each, I think this elimination of words has something to do with the unusual punctuation and capitalization.

    And you end up with the only words that don’t have cancelations,

    Walk /Paddle So (south) to good title. Note I don’t think this whole idea of “going up stream” is exactly right. (this also fits the whole poem, how do you go along a stream with no paddle? You drift with the current.)

    In map terms this could be a key/ legend we only need the inset map or the starting point?

    This method of what it CANT be may be useful in another feature.

    Forest Fenn, was almost destroyed by the federal government, 2 associates killed, he blames the FBI. Do you really think this man would place his riches on government land where the government with unlimited legal powers and finance could/would make a claim? Especially when the WORD TITLE is right in the poem? It has to be on private land. Especially considering the ranchers disputes over public lands. REMEMBER the BARB WIRE WARS!!!!!

    Here is another non-issue, Forrest Fenn is from Texas, there is only one area (relatively small comparatively) of the map that shares the area of New Mexico and the republic of Texas it is the areas generally to the n.e of Taos that overlaps onto ff map.

    Another non-issue, almost 81% of all areas above 10,000 feet in the us are located in the state of Colorado. I believe that the starting point we are looking for will be Just above the 10,000 foot mark and you will travel south/down to the elevation, after all the Treasure is not above that mark, but the starting point may be just above. I believe ff used this language to specifically exclude current Colorado; however a small part of co is found in the old republic of Texas areas.

    So that may narrow it down, an area to the n.e of Taos, with an elevation above the typical expected, with a water way traveling to the south. By the way a famous general FROM TEXAS was name Taos.

    Have fun…… ill go be crazy somewhere else for a while.

    • i would guess the answere is in the reaSON WHY i go to placese and askmyself why would he be here or what could bring him to this place thinking out loud again good night all.

    • RemeberTHEALAMO
      I believe You are on to something. To much for me to wrap my thinking around.
      The poem says “So why is it that I must go”.
      I hope You can tell us. Good Luck!

  11. Gooooooood Morning!!! Kids were late to school and I forgot to brush my teeth. Off with a bang as usual!

    Word that is key :
    Forrest’s story
    His story
    The word that is key is history.

    I hope you have a kick ass day!

  12. What is the double OMEGA? Beginning and End.

    What does a puzzle have: Beginning and End.

    What doe logic tell us about our search? It has a beginning and an End.

    What else do we know the beginning of most puzzles is at on of it’s what ? Borders……What does the first clue signify as its Starting Point? A BORDER. Now lets get down and buy a book by his favorite artist/author, Hemingway….So we can learn all about WW1 who knows their could be a message

    I was on a marker on the Border when I shot this video, the importance of the Border cannot be overstated, WWWH

  13. “Put-In”: This is the term used to describe the starting point of any rafting trip. Look for the first one of these put-ins to the south (below) of the home of Brown. That is the location of the parking lot and starting point for the hike north (up) alongside a creek.

  14. Is there a word in the poem or in between the lines that means tomb? He said He wanted it to be his final resting place.

    • Bobby;
      Yes – No
      There is an old English definition of creek: “A narrow or winding passage, or a sheltered passage or place”

      “A sheltered passage or place” can be interpreted as “A tomb” Some would say this is a bit of a stretch, but possible. – Use your imagination –

      Other lines “hint” at tomb – to some.

      “I’ve done it…” = past tense of “I did it”. What did Forrest do? He hid it – he hid the treasure, or he BURIED it! Forrest BURIED or ENTOMBED, the treasure!

      Where did he bury or entomb the Treasure? “I buried or entombed it tired” ??? (Interp.)
      Tired = Feeling a need to rest or sleep – wanting to lie down. Therefore, the Treasure is buried or entombed lying down IN the ground, or in a tomb.

      These are just a couple of lines and words that COULD be interpreted as relating to a tomb. Hope this helps – JDA

  15. Greeting Fellow Fennatics,

    “Many have given serious thought to the clues in the poem but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key.”

    IMO, Perhaps a word that is key (to unlock something) would be “context”…?

    Have a wonderful Thanksgiving!

    ~Wisconsin Mike

    • Mike, you used a very applicable word ‘Fennatics’. Some days I know I should join a 12 step program. Past the age of children attached to the hip, I now carry TTOTC! :). Enjoy that turkey!

  16. @Pinatubocharlie….Thanks for correcting my paraphrased “pay attention to the commas”.

    “I am frequently criticized for where I put commas. My reply is that I don’t want to use anybody’s book-writing rules. It is my prerogative as the writer to decide when I want the reader to pause, not the reader’s, and certainly not the critic’s.” f – SB 179

    If I may say a thought…..

    Granted this quote does not say “pay attention to the comnas” directly, but one could extrapolate a vague sense in FF that he placed comnas where he thinks they should be…..well in context – if you carefully read the quote.

    This is why my angle of, that the comnas actually represent a “pause” (or deeper in my thinking – a “directional change” caused by a pause in making a directional change…. This is what I think the statement means in a reference to the poem/map.

    FF wants the seeker to use the poem, right? Why wouldn’t he include directions? In fact, the nouns have directions, and now, IMO….the comnas.

    They seem to fit pretty nicely….and a very possible way to locate the blaze easier.


    • I agree on the commas having meaning. I have found myself agreeing with most everything you say. I don’t comment much, but we do seem to think very very much alike and use the same logic.

      Safety first


      • Hi Lyzee.

        Thanks for the feedback, but “everything”?


        I’m surprised – as many seem to think I’m a bit loco…..*smiles*….you know “bat shite crazy” level.


        Could you debunk my thoughts? What did you find out?

        Have you found them useful in locating a starting point? Or useless.

        What information was most beneficial to you?

        Care to repeat what that was for others?

        Thanks again for the confidence! We all like to get more confidence!! :o)

        Good luck to you.

  17. Lets see…a deduction. ..paraphrasing.
    A) Many thinking ( contemplating ) on the clues.
    B) Few focused on the word that is key.
    C) What one word in the clues…is the key to the entire solve?
    D) It is a single word.
    E) BLAZE….Thats it….BLAZE
    F) Find the Blaze….look quickly down…quest to cease….game over…tresure found.

    This is an opinion. The BLAZE can not be identified without solving the other clues

    • Great,
      But what good is a word if it doesn’t help us solve anything prior?
      I mean, we could need 9 words prior to identify what the blaze is, right?

      If I was to really concentrate on a word that is key… I’m not sure its an ‘unlocker’ perse… but of importance for understanding. And it seems more important the we understand the first clue… long before identifying the blaze.
      I don’t see how the word “Blaze” helps with the other clues, especially the one we are told we need or stay home.

      “I think the problem that searchers make is that they don’t dwell long enough on the first clue.”
      “I mean, there’s people driving down the street looking for a blaze, because that’s one of the clues, but you can’t start in the middle of the poem and find the treasure, I don’t think, I mean, it would be a miracle if someone did.”

      • Hi Seeker….

        IMO – the key word does ulock the poem.

        Why or how? I’ll give you one instance….

        My key word is in the poem, but part of a riddle. If I have solved the riddle correctly, I will be able to understand that portion of the poem and possibly reverse engineer the poem from this point backwatds to a WWWH.

        Now with doing this, how do I know I have the correct or right WWWH, huh? Simple..,my WWWH is something related to FF’s hints. Well it clearly fitd, because it is a factual instance I uncovered.

        Now, do I keep or discard my General solve because of a what I have found? I don’t think so.

        Okay, that is a how. Here is a why?

        The key word unlocks the poem’riddle,in such a way, that IMO – provides a direct location/place that anyone can go directly to. It is named in such a way, there isn’t that many, if any others at all, of such a location in the RMs that would also fit the clues as they are written.

        I could be wrong, but I have yet been able to debunk this logic. Maybe you can.

        Good luck.

        • I agree with you and had a similar thought process on the poem/riddle solve and that other things in the poem needed to be done reverse to get to the starting point.

          • Hi Matt.
            Cool…and how are you progressing with double checking the possibilities and/or debunking what you have discovered?

            Good progress?

            Bad progress?

            No progress?

            Have you used any of my techniques?

            Did you try remote viewing yet?

            I’m in the process of trying to teach my dog in how to find bronze…..hehehe…..

            Cheers and good luck?

          • (making the assumption I have a legitimate solve on the poem)
            Hi Tim. I actually have a solve that I want to get BOTG to verify. Unfortunately I’m 1500+ miles away from the Rockies and it’s coming up to winter now so hopefully it sits in waiting for me.
            I started with a few WWWH locations – a key word in the poem clicked one day – and not even a word I suspected was key. Because of that I came up with logical solves for 9 clues fairly quick-at least I think that they are the clues HA! I back tracked successfully to only one of my WWWH. All through the solves I felt like one line in one stanza led to a solve for another line in another stanza(a couple of them seemed like a ‘proof’ for another solve), similar to the halt/cease example somewhere on the thread here. I felt like things came together inside out? for lack of better description. All this with TTOTC, the Poem and Google Maps and Earth only.
            I have been debunking and verifying my solve and I can’t find anything that would indicate it’s incorrect. When I go to BOTG I know where I am going but don’t know where to look until I see the environment, if that makes sense.
            I’m getting some bronze stuff at the local Home Depot so I can train my dog 🙂 great idea!
            Needless to say I’m obsessed now. Did I answer your questions? I drifted … LOL

          • Hehehe….we may be the only reo I’m the world teaching our dogs new tricks!!

            Yes to did sounds like you are in my temporary camp of fine tuning.

            Iwont wait for you to arrive if we are searching the same region.


            Good luck.

      • Seeker,

        The key to unlocking to where the treasure is most certainly the “blaze.” As one follows the clues in succession, those clues prior as you had a question, “But what good is a word if it doesn’t help us solve anything prior?” That the question you asked leads me to think that you might be using clues to discover the one before.

        Each clue leads us to the next clue and it comes to the blaze. The blaze is the most important thing that unlocks where the treasure is at. Tight focus is most definitely needed to find the blaze. Yes, wwwh, and HoB are very important, they lead to searching for the blaze.

        The key word IMO is “blaze” it needs research and a lot of imagination more than any other clue, just by the fact there is no description of what it looks like.

        All IMO

        • I think there is a description of what the blaze looks like in the poem. I believe a word that is key helps one figurie it out.

    • One word in the poem that definitely stands out and deserves tight focus is Brown. It is capitalized for a reason.

      Put in below the home of Brown. What does that mean? If we knew what that is we will walk straight to the chest he says. And from that thing/place (we could) but there is no need to reverse engineer back to clue one. He has said don’t look for the blaze first, but has he ever said ‘don’t look for home of Brown first’??? How close of a relationship does this Brown clue has to the wwh clue? We need the first to understand the others but if we have Brown no need to either walk or solve backwards. Okay I’m going in circles…

      • Oz10: I can not find the original source (perhaps Dal can dig it up?) but back on April 13th, 2014, Dal had a response to a searcher named Clayton that said: “Forrest said: ‘You need to start at the beginning. You need to figure out where warm waters halt.’ He said this because many searchers were skipping directly to home of Brown. That is the point at which many folks were starting. … because (I suppose) it is easier. He was trying to get them to think about the first clues rather than the middle… And then I believe he went on to say that the clues are consecutive and we need to figure them out in the order they are, in the poem…”

        So while this isn’t a Fenn quote, it is Dal’s reading of the tea leaves w.r.t. Fenn’s opinion of people trying to short-circuit the poem and start in the middle because they mistakenly think it will be easier.

        • Thanks Zap. There is no doubt that we need to solve and nail down the first clue before anything. I am not saying that Brown is the word/key either but it does call attention from the beginning since it is in the same stanza as the first clue and closely related to the chest as per ff. So, that is why I ask myself if one is related to the other, not if I can start at the home of Brown but as I solve from the first clue in order, by the time I get there will I understand the true meaning of it, can I use it as a qualifier of sorts?

        • Zap,
          While it would be foolhardy to dispute F’s words to “start at the beginning… figure out [wwwh]” and defy a common sense approach that each clue builds on the previous one(s), the following comment does seem to introduce a slight wrinkle in these basic tenets:

          Question posted 7/2/2014:
          Do you think that someone who is sure about the location of the home of Brown could reverse-engineer where warm waters halt? ~Ben Raylor
          “Thanks for the question Ben.
          If you are sure about the location of home of Brown why are you concerned about where warm waters halt? But to answer your question, sure you could and a few searchers might throw in some gas money for a percentage of the take. Good luck.f”
          ( )

          Just scratching my head…

          • Hi Joe…et al community bloggers….

            “Thanks for the question Ben.
            If you are sure about the location of home of Brown why are you concerned about where warm waters halt? But to answer your question, sure you could and a few searchers might throw in some gas money for a percentage of the take. Good luck.f”
            ( )

            IMO – FF is stating that one can use the “reverse engineering technique” to double check your WWWH selection. Of it does…move another step forward in the board….but you may consider bringing someone along….safety first.

            Remember, hoB is “down” from WWWH and a canyon. Of yours is not…please go back to “Go”….*winks*…..

            Good luck to you….and have some fun with your imagination.

        • Hi Joe — yes, well familiar with the reverse-engineering remark by Forrest. But I’ve never found it contradictory. What it tells me is that there is a clue progression that must be followed, and therefore if you have reached the 3rd or 4th clue, the 1st clue may no longer be relevant — it has served its purpose.

          The key qualifier in Forrest’s answer is “If you are *sure* (my emphasis),” and the unstated additional information is that you cannot possibly be sure … unless you got there subsequent to solving preceding clues. (And even then, you won’t truly be sure, but at least the logical clue progression will give you some confidence.)

          I believe Forrest’s intent was to design the clues so that they would be one-way. Just as there are 10 billion blazes in the Rockies, there are probably millions of workable hoB’s, some of them not so obvious. How to choose among them? Better to solve WWWH, because in my opinion once you’ve got that figured out, you won’t question it. It’ll be “nailed down” and you’ll be able to proceed with confidence at least that far.

      • I agree Oz! Put in can mean 3 things to me. It’s a boating and aviation term. But it can be a place he “put in” the treasure too. So? I will now spend another winter contemplating all of this.

  18. Look at the Fenn comment in context. Look at when he said it and what was being discussed on this blog.

    I don’t think you need a key word to unlock anything I just think he was seeing that all the discussion was about Warm Waters, Home of Brown and the Blaze. Chasers were not focussed on any other words let alone a necessary one is how I read that.

    That line has been quoted thousands of times here, I don’t see the point of constantly constantly doing there but whatever.

    Why don’t we add the date of the quote to the top of this page? What do you think Dal? I’ll bet a large majority of all comments on this blog have come after that date.

    Typed while on a train and not making corrections

    • For me, I don’t think the truth and logic of his statement is any less true now than it was when he stated it, nor would it be any less true 10,000 years from now if I haven’t found the treasure by then.

    • Lugnutz;

      I mean no disrespect Lug, but the way I look at your statement is this – Since you have not been able to find a meaningful “Word that is key” – you say that it is not needed to unlock anything.

      Yes, I HAVE found a word that is key. When did I find this word? Has it helped me “Solve the poem”? Has it helped in any other way? – These are good questions.

      When did I find this word? More than one year into my search.

      Has it helped me “Solve the poem?” – Not in a direct way, as I had pretty much “Solved the poem” already. I was down to the “Fine Tuning” stage when I figured it out.

      Has it helped in any other way? YES!!! I think that it is important that the searcher discover why Forrest his the treasure WHERE he hid it. I admit it – I HAVE NOT yet found it, but I honestly feel I am close. One of the reasons I feel that I am close is because of what my understanding of “The word that is key.” My word “Puts the bow on the package.”

      I feel that I know why Forrest picked this particular place to hide Indulgence. Forrest could have picked thousands of other places, but he chose this one for several distinct and meaningful reasons – or so I believe.

      It is beautiful, but I have seen more beautiful places. Did Forrest spent part of his youth here? I think so. Does he have special memories here? I think so. Did he discover something special in this place or discover something special about or in himself in this place? I absolutely think so. Did it finding this place, or finding the things that I think he found actually change the course of Forrest’s life? In a word – YES!

      A lot of assumptions on my part. Assumptions confirmed by stories in all three books. Assumptions I hope Forrest will confirm IF I am lucky enough to find Indulgence.

      A lot of banter that some will say is based on hallucinations –
      So be it – I am happy in my cocoon – JDA

      • JD –

        What I am saying is that I do not believe Fenn was telling us there is a Key Word.

        Ok? Do you understand what I am saying?

        I think if he meant Key Word he would have said that.
        Repeated it since then.
        Are you following me?

        He was commenting, at the time, on the state of the chase as he saw it.

        So here is the thing, JD. IF there is no Key Word AND your solve depends on a Key word either to identify WWH or TC THEN you are not looking in the correct spot.

        No one here has ever said what their Key Word is and how that unlocks anything or references any location. I would love for someone to to do that so that we could ALL say what a great or not-so-great idea it is. I suspect as with HINTS there are a lot of not-so-great ideas out there.

        No need to tell anyone to Be Safe in the off season,

        Dal – I am not getting emails for this thread, not even the subscribe confirmation email.

        • Lugnutz. I see your point. I’m not convinced there is a single “key” work that will somehow unlock the puzzle. And even if there is, it may not be the word that Forrest is referring to in his statement. Only the one that ultimately solved the poem and finds the treasure can say what was the “key” word or words. I will say that in my solution, home of Brown has been the “linchpin”. But unless my solution ultimately leads to the treasure, it’s importance cannot be known.

        • LOL Lugs…
          Fenn has everyone looking for a magical word {probably not his intent, but if that’s what folks think, let them think it ]
          What might be meant by his comment is… there is an important meaning of a word [clue-ish] that a few have been attempting to figure out, while others are having fun looking for the blaze.

          I could say it might involve the first clue, but who knows, it might involve the third or fourth clue, cuz no one has given fenn the correct order of clues, other than the first two.

          Word that is key.. Unlocks the poem? I personally don’t think so. A word of importance to understand it correct meaning in plain English…?
          LOL many here don’t think plain English can be treaty enough, Cuz we all know we need a car to travel clues, right?

        • Lug, “a word that is key”, so many say they see the poem straight forward, but when it comes to this comment, throw straight forward out the door. Almost comical. If straight forward, you can only say ‘ a word (THAT) is key, or a word that is (KEY). Only two choices, THAT or KEY. Since he says in the book “a little of me is also in the box”, he’s talking about the key to the box. When you read line 9 from right to left, you get a hint to what the key is. The key is Forrest Fenn.
          His name, to me, offers up a date. Easy enough, 8/22. That goes with the time the last clue gives. IMO. But the key, it’s Forrest Fenn. Anything else, if a solve revolves around some magic word, then you are wrong. In my humble most correct opinion.

        • Tell ya whatLug.

          I’ll tell my key word to the world ONLY IF you can guarantee that I get full credit for the finding of the chest by anyone, which would entitle me to a portion of the find.

          IMO ‘ you can’t do that, I don’t trust anyone to be fair, and thus, I won’t release this information.

          Also, maybe you can challenge my logic of how I think the key word is a factual part of the poem….I can’t.

          Good luck to you.

          • BTW Lug….I’ll be liking at this spot again next year.

            I guess we both will know if I find it or not in 2018, huh?

            Be the chest.

      • Lug;

        I see what you are saying BUT;
        1) You use “Key word” when Forrest said “Word that is key” – There is a difference.
        2) You say, “No one here has ever said what their Key Word is and how that unlocks anything or references any location.”
        You are only half correct in your statement. Many, many people have said what they think the “Word that is key” is. Very few (if any) have said “how that unlocks anything or references any location.”

        I just explained how I think that the “Word that is key”
        has helped me figure out why Forrest chose this particular place, over thousands of others, to hide Indulgence. So, I think that that helps me “unlock anything”. I consider myself a “someone” – you may differ. Read my post again. – It was written with no animus to you – Just a differing opinion – JDA

        • JDA ~’Has it helped me “Solve the poem?” – Not in a direct way, as I had pretty much “Solved the poem” already.’

          Wasn’t that lugnutz point, in part? This magical word being needed as an unlocker line of thinking. IF you already had a solve prior to finding a word that is key… what good is that word for solving the clues???

          Does it matter that you thin it tells you why fenn wanted this place or special to him or he might had gone there as a kid etc.
          So you’ve had a word that is key that gives you all the above, from a year ago, right? you have a solve that basically the word wasn’t needed, right? But tells you other things…
          How’s that working out for ya?

          • Seeker;

            You say,”So you’ve had a word that is key that gives you all the above, from a year ago, right? you have a solve that basically the word wasn’t needed, right? But tells you other things…
            How’s that working out for ya?”

            In a word – GREAT! No I can not say I have held Indulgence, but were it not for circumstances out of my control, I honestly believe that I “KNOW” where it is – Just a matter of “One more trip”.

            I know – another “Know it all” with no chest. True, at the moment – Come on spring or early summer – JDA

  19. “Many have given serious thought to the clues in the poem but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key.”

    Has anyone given consideration that the “key” opens the box. That key is determined by the code lettering CE5 reference at the box latch.

    What is important to Fenn?… the “middle”. Read page 35 in TTOTC.

    The MIDDLE of everything. “… I was in the middle and was significant…”
    There is a long list of “Middle” and part of that list is CE5. The middle letter’s meaning is the “key”.

    So is that meaning in the poem or in the book? Me to know you you to figure out. Things are implied by Mr Fenn…. but does that mean that’s the straight skinny of it all. Not if you speak the Fenn language of mystique.

    All of this is IMHO of course.

  20. IMHO, the key word is “scale”.

    People aren’t in tight focus with a word that is key. FF said the poem was crafted as if by an architect.

    Every blueprint I’ve seen has a legend, a key to explaining the symbols, and most importantly includes the scale of the drawing. Same with maps – the legend (sometimes called the key) lists important info like the map’s scale.

    So, for me, the magic word is Scale.

    • Naught Forys;

      Cute -screen name – Good idea, but it doesn’t match my solve – Good luck to ya’ JDA

      • JDA,

        When you said above, “it doesn’t match my solve –”, Does this mean you won’t consider anything what others say and your not open to other ideas?

        • Absolutely not. If that were the case, I wouldn’t spend the time I do on the blog. There are lots of ideas presented that have affected my thought processes..

          In this instance, the word “Scale” does not work.
          Simple fact, simple statement. I looked at whether the word “Scale” COULD work with my solve, and came to the conclusion that it does not. I give ANY word offered as a possibility consideration. It will work or not. Just because I reject one word offered by one searcher certainly does not mean that I reject all word possibilities – certainly not – JDA

          • Oh Hi JD yes we all need a little encouragement sometimes. Right? We all wonder out load, here. Thank you for the reply. Lou Lee

        • I mentioned that I thought Forrest said no more clues. JD said that was flawed. I think many chasers have thoughts they express. Or are looking for feedback, ideas etc. I try to be open, about ideas because untill we have the treasure nothing is certain. I still wonder if there are any clues in the new book? Or even in TFTW? BECAUSE Forrest never said there was.
          I am still getting the book because I love reading Forrests stories.I am Open to everyone’s ideas!

          • LL…remember when your first solve turned to dust? Some folks are just not there yet…Fenn’s stories are great; good glimpse at one person’s experience.

        • Lou Lee;

          You say, “I mentioned that I thought Forrest said no more clues. JD said that was flawed.” I do not recall making such a statement – but I forget a lot.

          If I did say it, it was probably in the context of – There are nine “Clues” in the poem. I feel that Forrest has included “Hints” in the poem in addition to the clues. I also believe that Forrest has offered “hints” or “Nudges” in ALL of his three books – TTOTC, TFTW and OUAW. You notice that I did NOT say “clues” – I said “hints” or “Nudges”. For me, there are only 9 clues – period. Hope I cleared up any misunderstanding about what I said or believe.

          I too try to be open in what I express – My ideas MAY very well be flawed. I am open to criticism about what I express.

          I am also VERY open to suggestions that others make – JDA

          • critique, criticism, suggestion, suggest are all synonyms.
            Hint synonym is clue.
            Nudge synonym is poke.

            Poking hints to critique clues and suggest with criticism suggestions is what we all do…

            Wait! What?!

          • Hi JDA – I also am like you.

            I love the mind sets we see expressed.

            And yep…me too….the blog is a ponderous place of V aibstorming ideas that may jar something for my brain and techniques.

            I am just so surprised I haven’t seen a lot of debunking the confines of my thoughts.

            Maybe they aren’t…..may be they are and not just being expressed.

            BTW – did you make an attempt at remote viewing?


            Good luck sir.

          • I am hoping for a drone for Christmas so I can do a bit of “Remote viewing.” I do not want to make the climb myself in the winter, and other’s have busy schedules and can’t see the advantage in “Finding” it, but probably not able to “retrieve” it in the frozen winter. Time will tell. Anyone have a direct line to Santa re my request for a drone? 🙂 JDA

          • Hey JDA,

            Sorry, but I can’t help you with Santa, but regarding a drone I can offer some advice. Not knowing what your pocketbook will allow, my son has a DJI Phantom 3 and loves it. He’s also an accomplished stunt RC helicopter pilot I might add, but no where near the pro level I’ve seen on YouTube.

            The link below is to one of the videos he shot with the Phantom 3 at our favorite campground in Eastern Washington called Steamboat Rock State Park. We go usually there twice a year for 10 days or so and he took this during one of those trips. Watch it all the way to the end and you see something really cool.


            Take care.


          • Great Video – Thanks. Can you have your son email me at SculptorJDA at aol doyt com, I have a technical question he may be able to answer – Thanks. JDA

          • Thought you’d like it JDA. I’ll be happy to ask him to contact you, though he can be a little slow at times. So I’ll have to give him a little fatherly boost.


    • Naught Forya – Google the legend for the Treasure Island map. I like how the s’s looked like f’s in the scale of that legend.

      Scales of Justice and the Omega, symbols for Libra, also came to mind, ‘just’ because of the Poem lines:

      Just heavy loads and water high
      Just take the chest and go in peace

      Thinking of that Ibis-headed Thoth figure shown in one of Forrest’s scrapbooks, that I ‘just’ saw again in that February 28, 2013 NBC interview video done in Forrest’s home. He is holding it.

      • Hi Lisa.

        Thoth was supposedly the god of “wisdom” too.

        IMO – Forrest has just reinforced what already he has told us…..we need to be “wise”.

        The rabbit holes for this comparison are only as large as you make them to be.

        Don’t get lost….Okay?


    • Naught Forya – From Forrest’s Gold is the Skin of the Gods scrapbook:

      “Thoth was one of the main deities in Egyptian mythology. He’s depicted here as a man with the head of an Ibis. Thoth maintained the universe, and moderated disputes between good and bad to make sure neither gained an advantage. He invented hieroglyph, the Egyptian system of writing.”

    • My thought has been “why is it whiskey”. …”Y” is “it” , “WH is KEY” , WWWH…a reference to distilling. Y distill? Wide is still.
      Rushin’ water is vodka. Or, if it be in the poem you seek, then B B Que is the word . (B)een, (B)laze, (Que)st. All in one sentence. Kinda like a YRossetta stone. “Wire rows set astone”
      But also consider So Y. ….EYE AM.

        • SeattleSullivan, it took me a while to see the obvious. But what I’m seeing now is that WH is the “lock” and another word is the key. Does that jibe with what you’re thinking?

      • Hi Seattle Sullivan…welcome to the fastest moving treasure hunt in history!!

        I hope you are in it for the long run….because many are….I know I will be.

        As for your general solving technique, are you sure you would classify this process isn’t a cipher of sorts? Does it work for all of the poem, or just a part that you think would hold the “key word”?

        Can you elaborate?

        I ask, because my key word is a word written into the poem, but is within a riddle you have to solve, in order to understand the phrase it sits within, which is actually a hidden clue. This should lead the seeker to find Indulgence.

        As you can see, it has multiple levels of details, if you can figure it out what it is.

        Does this mean the whole poem Is set up this way?…..and we seekers need to solve at least four levels of thinking, before each clue can be solved correctly? That is something I have not thought of until now, but for me, my current general solve does not use this thinking.

        What the key word sort of exposes, is that it actually seems to be word that is also a checks and balances type word structure, that seems to validate the confirmation of the clue’s meaning.

        Does yours do this?

        Cheers, welcome again to the chase, have a thrill or two or three or four…..stay EXTREMELY SAFE in your travels, and most of all…just have some fun living a dream.

        Good luck!

    • Scale is an interesting word. If you ask someone not to post so much you are asking them to scale back a bit when presenting ideas. One can scale a mountain–or weigh different things on a scale. Scales fell off of Paul’s eyes—and there are scales on fish. As mentioned things are drawn to scale–and on a scale of 1 to 10 I would give this post a 4 for originality.

  21. “Listen”
    As in listen to a song….
    Has anybody else sung Mr. Forrest’s Poem to a song?
    I can sing it to “O My Darling Clementine”.
    Please, don’t try this, unless you don’t mind that tune getting stuck in your head for a week or two or maybe a month….
    Anyway, music is not my forte.
    Maybe, I’m imaging things. It would not be the first time with this puzzle.
    Clearly Clueless

  22. Probably everyone has heard this before but I think the word is COLD. Few are in tight focus with a word that is key, Isn’t FF giving us the answer? “Hear me all and listen good, your effort is worth the COLD. We all have our own theories but he says right here that cold is somehow important. Some want to wade out into knee deep rushing water, yeah that’s cold but think about it, flowing water has pretty strong currents and Indulgence isn’t going to last in the same place very long. There are lots of other places that get cold too. Now, to figure out what FF means by cold!

    • Dayton
      VERY GOOD! We have first warm……Than Cold. I’m going to think about that. Also we are High! How High? We go down than up.

      • Cold doesn’t have to deal with temp either. Remember FF said he thought of warm as “comfortable “, well cold can mean uncomfortable or lack of passion or not friendly…etc. Most accept words for there common face value, I don’t think it’s wise to do that here.

  23. I keep confusing quotes from Forrest Fenn with all those quotes from Forrest Gump. I Keep losing my “Key” to my truck as well. You bloggers are making me Craaazzzyyy.

  24. YOU MAY BE RIGHT i hope so but how can there be A KEY WORD THAT DOESN’T MESS WITH THE POEM? a question we should be in tight focus with what do you think? Im looking for every thing that should be there probley wont find it but i think i know what should be there like high water heavy loads pine sage mountains animals a creek and its bank cold is in the equasion if there was one question i could ask as i have not to date it would be wil lthe person know it is from your work Mr Fenn will we know that is your mark the blaze maybe thats should not be asked i think who ever finds the tc will stumble upon his journey with his quest in mind SORRY JUSt me thinking out load again

    • things i think of i have a canoe but i would never put it in the water searching for the tc because i believe MR Fenn
      when he says there will be no paddle up your creek loud was the word i was looking for you walk through the layers of cake to get to the prize.we have to eliminate each possibility i have went through so many i wish i was brave enough to share all of them WITH YOUi wish i could remember them all but i do know its been a lifes journey worth taking

  25. Here is a question for anyone out there to answer. When Mr. Fenn said that the treasure is located at least 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe(I think he used links as his measurement but it turns out to be 8.25 miles) anyway, when he said that or any time after did he specifically say Santa Fe New Mexico? There are Santa Fe’s in Mexico, Texas, and others. If he was throwing this clue out there and he didn’t specify New Mexico, as everyone has assumed since he lives there, then that would open up a lot of new potential territory in New Mexico that no one is looking at. cheers.

    • Yes Tim: he (later) specified Santa Fe, New Mexico. He wasn’t trying to be tricky. I think he was just trying to keep crazy people out of his backyard and his neighbors’ backyards, unfortunately with only limited success.

      • Zap,
        But he did say… “….If you want to **apply those important figures into the thrill of the chase** I will give you an additional clue. The Treasure chest full of gold and precious jewels is more than 66,000 links north of Santa Fe.”

        While it might imply a distance from his home to keep the crazies away [ as said ]… is the idea ~ “those important figures” could be useful for the ‘clues’?
        We are looking for “precisely” on following the clues, right? No one will stumble upon the treasure…
        We do have what appears to be unknown distances… take it in ~ how far? NFBTFTW ~ again how far? From there – to no meek, A distance? How far is the end? how long is a creek? is there a measurement needed for ‘in’ the ‘wood’ reference? Do we need to figure out that HL and WH have a distance between them?

        LOL… there’s a lot of WhatIF’s that could be thought of with that comment.

        • Seeker,

          I just used TarryScant to word search;

          Additional clue
          I will give you

          And none of those searches yielded your above quotes. I’m not challenging the accuracy of your post, but can you please provide a reference?


          • Go to “Mountain Walk – Richard Sauners” at the bottom of this page for the full quote and conversation… By the way, Tarry Scant needs to get amovin there are a lot of quotes, interviews, comments, Q&A’s and general fenn statements I can’t find either.

            I’ll give a plug to JCM’s documents in the topic “searcher’s books” at the top right of this page… he worked hard to get a full scale of everything with links, dates, and updates when something new pops up etc.
            LOL about the only other person I know who might have one or two pieces of information would be Loco… But he ain’t sellin.
            I guess he might if the price was right. I hear he’s into collecting 1150 AD. bronze chest.

          • And Loco best not sit on them too much longer…they’re gonna hatch into somethin’ he can’t get rid of….

          • Ken,
            I didn’t know the Mountain Walk site was closed. I haven’t been there in years. But that is where the full conversation took place.
            ~Here’s what I have Pinatubocharlie.

            **Since Richard mentioned the olden days lets harken to 1620 when universal land measures first became law in England and America. As you rode your horse into town you had to pass 80 telephone poles in order to reach a mile because they were 1 chain apart, or 66 feet. And each chain had 100 links, if you wanted to break it down further. Road rights-of-way also were 1 chain wide. And 80 square chains made a square mile, or 640 acres, and that was 1 section of land.

            But if you’d rather count fence posts you had to pass 320 in order to reach a mile because they were a rod apart, or 16.5 feet. And since everyone knew that an acre was 10 square chains (43,560 square feet) it was easy to tell how many acres were in your neighbor’s farm.

            Some aspects of those measures are still in use today in the horse racing business because a furlong is 10 chains in length, or 660 feet. You should feel smarter now because that’s so easy.

            If you want to apply those important figures into the thrill of the chase I will give you an additional clue. The Treasure chest full of gold and precious jewels is more than 66,000 links north of Santa Fe.

            Goofy I believe did the math;
            100 links = 1 chain
            66,000 links = 660 chains (66,000 x 100)
            1 chain = 66 feet
            660 chains = 43560 feet (660 x 66) = 8.25 miles

            Disclaimer; not responsible for accuracy or inaccuracy … these are just note from long ago. But I’d bet they are spot on.

          • Seeker,

            I’ve seen that old discussion of surveying back in the day before but who knows where. Perhaps it was on Jenny’s site. Anyway, what drew my attention was his use of the term “clue”.

            Perhaps he simply misspoke by not using “hint” instead which has been his MO for some time, but I have a feeling there’s something more important and “hidden” within all that info for someone to uncover .

            Nevertheless, thank you for responding.


          • Interesting find Seeker.


            My first solve, which actually led me to where I am today, utilized thisv “non-chalantly spoken phrase” – when FF first spoke of it…..IMO – “as if important to note”….so I did.

            I applied it to a length of road I was following, and BAM….from one clue to the next one I was looking to match on a map,…and wha-la….I had a match.

            Soooo…IMO….and only such…it seems to apply in some manner.

            BTW – this length of road begins well and far away from SF…but still remains factual in its context….this place is at least 8.5 miles N of SF. Forrest didn’t fudge the truth…but expounded upon it in a most extreme measure…to keep us guessing.


          • Pinatubocharlie,

            LOL fenn calls everything a clue except ‘hints’ in the book and hints of riches new and old. Not in an outhouse, not in Idaho, Utah, Canada, Nevada, graveyard all clues, right?

            My only point is… there might be some calculating involved. I mean, I hardly doubt fenn waited 3 years ATF to tell us what some hope is the meaning of NFBTFTW… That would be the biggest real clue in my mind if it was remotely true. But personally, I doubt that fenn would give that out 3 years later and not have thought about it over a 20 plus year period, from first thought of the challenge to finalizing the hiding of the chest.

            So, can there be some kinda calculation/calculating [ per the examples fenn gave ] needed to be done to solve the clues?

            Maybe fenn was giving us food for thought in that comment, and others, like: “… there are a few words that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them.”
            Or “… every word was deliberate..”

            Just rambling and rumbling….

          • Hi Seeker…et al…..

            Odd…..I was just thinking about that quote last night, again. I’ve always wondered how it truly applies to the poem…many times I’ve just sat and thought about why FF said this. What exactly is “deliberate” and what relationship to the poem did FF intend when he spoke it.

            “Every word is deliberate…”

            I finally have a reason I can use to totally agree that each word is. I think this statement is true.


            A: because when someone writes anything….anything that they want to express….anything they want others to read, listen or see……are all done “deliberately”. This includes the “a’s, the’s, in’s…etc” that are also in the poem “deliberately” placed, because they are words that are needed in grammar and to form some sentences.

            EX. “And take it in the canyon down,”

            “And” = an instruction to the seeker to make an additional action in conjunction with the previous clue (BIWWWH)….meaning that this action should run in parallel with the previous step/action
            “take” = an action to make. In this case, the seeker is doing something physically – walking, driving, flying…some sort of action that moves the seeker
            “it” = a place, a thing? – could be a trail, road, causeway, waterway, river etc., but travelling of sorts seems to be the action
            “in” = a conjuction that leads the seeker into the next word. This is “deliberately” placed in the sentence, in order to make the sentence spoken or read correctly.
            “the” = same as the above, a singular reference to the next word, which usually will be a noun – another “deliberately” selected and needed word, but notice that it is not a noun like other deliberate words
            “canyon” = “deliberately” placed noun within the poem that describes a place similar to or is actually a canyon, something of the like….fiord, pass, ravine, hallow, dry riverbed, etc.
            “down” = specific direction and possible action to take
            “,” = specific direction (IMO – a specific movement by the seeker in a N, S, E, W direction)

            I believe we are seeing Fennology in action. I also believe, Forrest is a man of textual criticism, because it is a main technique that is utilized when writing.

            People want to be sure what they say or speak…and ensure it is to their liking and hopefully expresses what they, “but not.”

            – Could this be a “sorry, not sorry” moment? LOL

            Shoot…the POTUS does it all the time….it is his main way to cause a VAGUE perception to what is involved or what is current, by selecting CHOICE words. We see it all the time – the use of words to mean one thing vaguely, so the listener can extrapolate whatever their mind perceives the words they just heard or read…….hundreds of people thinking differently in what you just said….and form them into their own meaning.

            Sound familiar?

            Shoot….religion does it with gods all the time. People believe their “God” and have truly no idea what that god is, but will allow other people to dictate to them….a certain perception upon them, without researching the religion. They accept what has been said/read at face value and choose to NOT investigate the truth of those words they read and hear.

            Fennology in action IS exactly the same… change the perception of others with the words you say or right….”choose wisely”….and you may succeed…….People are deluded in a mindset and cannot awaken to the the truth, so they play right into the GameMaster’s hands, never realizing they are being played.

            Interpretation is perception.

            Perception is Self.

            Self is what one needs in order to understand others, how they write and what they say. This requires a change of thinking….to better understand the way words are written are not always what they mean. Texual criticism.

            LOL…as you Will soon see, if you follow up with what I have stated…..Trump and religion are both great examples of this…..and how people can manipulate others to do what they hear and see.

            Be cautious folks….there are many rabbit holes that you can fall into, if you choose to discard any word. I also believe, it will be a very large rabbit hole for the one who moves from the simplicity of its meaning, to something larger.

            Cheers and good luck to all.

          • I think there’s definitely something significant in riding your horse into town past 80 telephone poles in 1620.

            How in the world did the pilgrims know that elevating the lines would yield a clearer signal?

            “As my hat’s blown away somewhere . . .”

          • Hi Lisa.

            That is actually a biography and not an auto-biography.

            It is hearsay, second hand news, and possibly, invalid in many ways.

            Articles written by others are just another perception given, although, maybe you can get FF to comment upon his life as stated by another.

            I would imagine you could come up with some examples, but if approached to FF with them….. he may very well refute and/or correct one or two of the words, in order to change the meaning completely, to make them factual.

            Can you verify everything in the article to be true? IMO – the writer is a seeker as well.

            You may believe what you choose, but I would suggest you believe selectively.

            Good luck and be safe out there!

          • Seeker…et al…..

            To validate my point about the article…..

            “I wrote this blog post to explain how people in the olden days used direction and distance to locate and mark off bits of land on a much larger landscape and not to suggest that we go looking for Forrest Fenn’s treasure with an early visit to the old homestead of Osbourne Russell and his neighbor to the south—Mr. Brown. But, then again, maybe we should. After all, the poem does say, “…take it in the canyon down … put in below the home of Brown.”
            Stay safe,
            r/ ”

            All the comments that follow are also opinions, using FF quotes. I don’t dispute the quotes, I dispute some of the theories that are derived from the quotes through perception.

            They can be entertaining, but also May contain a hidden nugget of truth or two or three. Who knows?

            Still…the end results are still second hand thoughts.

            Cheers and good luck.

          • Tim – I appreciate your insightful perspective. Thank you. But that is Richard Saunier’s Mountain Walk blog link. I thought you were all looking for that. I wanted to find it as well, because that’s where the awesome pictures of the bronze bells and jars are located.

          • Tim ~’That is actually a biography and not an auto-biography.’

            If you are talking about the post on Mountain Walk and the 60,000 links… that post was directly from fenn and not hearsay, second hand news by the owner of the site.

            The comment is as old has the RM’s and even though some may not know about, in full… folks should attempt to find it and decide for themselves if it’s factual or crap.

          • Hi Seeker.

            I was talking about the entire article, not just the quote. Yes there is a quote by FF.

            But the article is of the opinion of “r/”….whomever that signature belongs to.

            The article the link took me too was not by FF, but FF were included.

            Cheers….thanks for letting me explain my thought.

          • Tim and Seeker -So did either of you bother to scroll down to Forrest’s reply comment on Richard Saunier’s blog that I provided?

            Forrwst Fenn on April 17, 2012 at 5:37 am
            Since Richard mentioned the olden days lets harken to 1620 when universal land measures first became law in England and America. As you rode your horse into town you had to pass 80 telephone poles in order to reach a mile because they were 1 chain apart, or 66 feet. And each chain had 100 links, if
            you wanted to break it down further. Road rights-of-way also were 1 chain wide.
            And 80 square chains made a square mile, or 640 acres – and that was 1 section of land.

            But if you’d rather count fence posts you had to pass 320 in order to reach a mile because they were a rod apart, or 16.5 feet. And since everyone knew that an acre was 10 square chains (43,560 square feet) it was easy to tell how many acres were in your neighbor’s farm.

            Some aspects of those measures are still in use today in the horse racing business because a furlong is 10 chains in length, or 660 feet. You should feel smarter now because that’s so easy.

            If you want to apply those important figures into the thrill of the chase I will give you an additional clue. The Treasure chest full of gold and precious jewels is more than 66,000 links north of Santa Fe.

        • Hi Seeker,

          Do you know if it has been posted or if someone has figured it it how many miles is 66,000 links.

          I tried, but got lost in the calculations.

          Has anyone on the blog come up with an answer to this number? It would give us all a radius within the RM – from SF, NM – huh?

          I may have to take another shot at the answer, and we if my location is sitting on the border of this length.


    • Tim,

      You are right. There are many Santa Fe’s in the RMs and some don’t have anything to do with a city/town name. And in fact, most are more than 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe, NM. However, and even though it’s not in the RMs, I found one in NM very close to the 32nd parallel, aka 32°!

      Having said that, I don’t think Santa Fe is important to the correct solve though I was certainly on that band wagon for while myself but jumped off a long time ago.

      Please remember this important quote. “It’s not what they say on the blogs that may be significant, it’s what they whisper.” just substitute “Forrest” for “they”. IMO there’s a bull horn “whispering” to us in the quote/surveying info Seeker provided earlier.

      And while I am thinking about it and even though some here don’t believe in SB hints, IMO be very leary when Mr. F posts a verbose SB as I think a big hint lies within those words. Our job is to listen intently (much better than I did in school I might add) for that whisper and then apply it correctly.

      That’s my 2 cents.


  26. One other thing I have wondered about but hard to clarify, when he has said many people have been within 200 or 500 feet of the treasure, did he specifically mean people who were searching for the treasure?

    • Tim, excellent question. I don’t think FF specifically meant
      that it was searchers who have been within 200 or 500 feet
      of the treasure (chest). I have been urging folks to not underestimate FF. And by the way, when he says “treasure”, he may not be referring only to the chest and/or its contents.

      • Tighterfocus, when I read 200/500 I wonder what does the 300 look like. Even if I knew, I still wouldn’t know what to do. Lol.

    • Not that hard to clarify – it’s easily found at (if you want to verify and/or find other instances, and/or check out the ‘500 feet’ comments).

      “Some searchers have been within 200 feet.”

      “. . . people send me e-mails and they tell me exactly where they are. . . . They were searching but they didn’t know they were within 200 feet.”


      • Hi, Jake,

        RE: “. . . people send me e-mails and they tell me exactly where they are. . . . They were searching but they didn’t know they were within 200 feet.”

        What about this…. If we look at the above quote closely, could it not describe the following scenario?

        A searcher spends the morning looking for the treasure at the south end of Colter Bay in WY. Lunchtime approaches. Searcher decides to drive 20 miles away from his/her search site to eat lunch, sits down and emails FF…”Hi, Forrest. Just want to let you know how much fun I’m having looking for the treasure. Decided to take a break and have a buffalo burger at the Mangy Moose Restaurant & Saloon in Jackson, WY. Thanks for the challenge!” Searcher finishes the burger and returns to their original site. See,…the searcher tells Forrest “exactly” where they are eating lunch, not knowing they’re sitting 200 – 500 feet from the treasure. If I were a searcher who did anything that resembles the above scenario, I’d get my butt back to the location from which I emailed Forrest and start a 200 – 500- foot radius search.Wouldn’t you?

        PS: I’ve never been to the Mangy Moose – so not an advertisement or endorsement. Lastly, if this helps anyone find the treasure, I’d like at least one gold coin as a reminder of the exciting / fun / enlightening 3 BOTG adventures I’ve had while experiencing TTOTC. Thanks!

        • How would this searcher even know that Fenn read their email…or was even referring to them when he made the ATF? Your point about their whereabouts is solid.thanks for putting that out there.

          • Hi, Jake,
            The searcher would not know if Forrest read the email unless FF acknowledged it, but …how many people have emailed their “exact” location while out on a search? I’m guessing not too many. But, some for sure. I’d definitely go back to the exact location I emailed my exact location to FF while out on a search, whether I knew he read it or not. They know who they are. I think the “location” may be some kind of hub i.e. an airport , car rental place, bookstore, restaurant, coffee shop, monument, etc…somewhere where a number of searchers have stopped during their search, or to / from their search. Just trying to think out of the box re: where FF may have slipped up by giving out TMI that has nothing to do with the clues. Thanks for listening 🙂

  27. Something that’s bothered me for quite awhile is this phrase: “are in tight focus with a word.” Why not, “only a few are tightly focused on a keyword.” Right? I mean, if you’re going to use “tight focus” at all… It just screams HINT at me, not for the content as much as for the phrasing.

    • Lady V,
      Yeah, this comment has been a thorn in my mind, as well. Nowadays, I tend to think Forrest’s “a few are in tight focus with a word that is key” comment is aimed more at a concept versus absolute definitions of words.

      Just another opinion.

      • If you consider “a word that is key” to mean
        “key word” or “keyword”:
        a keyword is a word or phrase associated with an internet document so that when somone uses a search engine to look for something, and enters that keyword, the search results include that document. I did a search for “key word” and found a scientific article which actually listed the associated keywords.
        (one of the keywords was “key word”)
        Some were single words, others were 2-word phrases. In other words, a keyword could consist of 1, 2, or 3 (or more) words from the poem typed into a search bar. The resulting search results could contain a hint concerning to the poem’s WWWH.

        • Bob, Have you brought us another water-water(s) type debate? I’m still cockeyed (see the eye & the key?) from that debate,
          I just cannot do a search of 1, 2, or 3 (or more) words to look for a hint to the poem’s WWWH. I’m tired and weak (no comma). Gimmy your hint. Thanks, OS2

          • Google “treasures secret riches”., This gives you Isaiah 45:3. The clue is not in the verse, it is in the whole book of Isaiah, which mentions “Mount Zion” many many times. Mount Zion is next to Lookout Mountain by Golden Colorado. On the mountain side is a 100-foot letter “M” which is lit up (blazes) with LED lights. The closest warm springs are at Idaho Falls. Going down the canyon from there puts you back below Mt. Zion. The “M” was laid out by Walt Brown, Class of 1910 at CSM. Weird enough ?

          • Thank you Bob. I’m back from the dog park now, will take a nap, start dinner, check the news, & start on Isaiah & Zion. Thats a whole foreign country to me. Well, maybe I’ll wait, Amazon just left a new package for me… Lewis & Clark I think. Thank you, and thanks to all the folk who have kicked cagey to the curb & are now naming names. OS2.

        • …nicely worded Bob.

          You have added one validation to my theory that the key word exists in the poem, but is within one of the riddles (“group of words/”phrase”).

          Thanks….I’ll consider this one CUP of confidence added to my volume.

          *smiles brightly*


  28. Using the imagination; perhaps the keyword has to do with the final area and the searchers in tight focus are under the lens?

    If so, I’m thinkin’ they are GLaD! 🙂 🙂 🙂

  29. Thrill,is the word for covers it youth.infant.child.if you could go back and do it,the adventure, the thrill of your life knowing from experience of what you know now.what would you change.anything.

  30. “Many have given serious thought to the clues in the poem but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key.” f

    All of this is IMO, there is an important word in the poem but it doesn’t unlock the poem to be solved. In fact, the poem is unsolvable because it’s not meant to be solved. The poem is only a box that holds the clues that are to be solved. The word that is key is a word in the poem that helps determine the geographical location of the first clue, BIWWWH…ATIITCD. All one clue.
    (Stay in the box)

    From there you follow the directions to the next clue, NFBTFTW. The only problem here is that this statement is so vague that no one could ever come up with the correct distant. That’s why I think Forrest answered it for us in the preface of TFTW book.

    The overall poem is not a riddle, but it may contain one or two in the stanzas. The answerers to them may help you to identify the geographical location of their relevant clue.

    How does one follow the clues precisely? Each clue must follow the last and make sense to the poem instructions. Step by step until the last geographical place. (Most of the places the clues refer to were there when he was a kid.) Most, means some of them were not there, some must have been built or created since he was a kid. What could it/they be in your quest? Think, but stay in the box. IMO. Good luck to all.

    • ManOwar,

      Would you care to share the word in the poem that you believe gives the geographical location of where warm waters halt?

    • ManOwar ~’The word that is key is a word in the poem that helps determine the geographical location of the first clue, BIWWWH…ATIITCD. All one clue.’
      (Stay in the box)

      If that is all one clue, assuming the first clue… then the second clue would be NFBTFTW? And if so, that would have been solved, right? IF not.. and only a distances to clue two, then hoB being a clue would have to be clues two, right? A solved clue!
      So, if prior searcher solved hoB as a possible clue two, of the first two solved, deciphered, indicated, figured out clues… what would you call the next two clues of the first four that fenn indicated some may have solved?

      • Seeker,….Yes, they solved the first two clues but didn’t know it. They ended up at the HOB but didn’t know it or recognize it as such. You must first identify what and where the HOB is before you can put in below it. That’s the trick here. Even if you were to Identify WWWH and the HOB, where below the HOB do you put in? That’s where they go wrong, not able to identify FTINPFTM. But some may have solved it ATF of the TFTW book, then Fenn indicated they may have. I guess one could look at it this way:

        Clue 1: BIWWWH, (a place) ATIITCD
        Clue 2: NFBTFTW (the physical distant traveled, that stretch is a geographical place)
        Clue 3: is the HOB. (a place)
        Clue 4: is put in below the HOB. (a place)
        Clue 1: BIWWWH, ATIITCD, NFBTFTW (a place)
        Clue 2: HOB (a place)
        Clue 3. Put in below the HOB (a place)
        Clue 4: FTINPFTM (a place )

        In either case you first must discern HOB before putting in below it. I think you will agree with that statement. And as it goes, you cannot get there (HOB) w/o first getting the right WWWH.

        I hope this helps you or someone on there quest.

        • I’m following your thought process… but truly wondering IF hoB was deciphered [per fenn’s knowledge that searchers stated something he was confirmed with] Then the problem seems much harder than just deciphering a clue references. I mean, that is a lot of information all of stanza two and close to stanza three references…

          The first folks on location had to be there for a good reason, more than likely WWWH is their solve… then to have the second clue solved as hoB and still have all the [ for lack of a better term ] needed conditions [information] to ‘be at’ hoB..?
          Something is very puzzling to say the least.

          To be that far into the poem and not recognize those clues and the remaining clues…. LOL What do these clues references look like???
          I guess the most puzzling question for me would be; what could possibly get searchers to those two clues, with the correct references of any to clues, and not know, well anything… I have a hard time that the searchers didn’t have a good handle on the first clue to at least get them there.

          This is where I agree with Goofy and some others… you have to be on site to observe the clues. Because just deciphering a reference of what a clue is, doesn’t seem to be working as we all thought.

          Anyways, I do follow your thoughts [ both thoughts ] But apparently, we are definitely missing that “important possibly” for winning the solve.

    • Hi ManOWar….nah…IMO – I’ll stay on the outside of the box.

      BTW – without YOU moving out of the box….or within the box, how did you get into the box? How do you get out?

      How can you see the area you are standing in and behind you while in the box?

      With me being outside the box, I can see ALL of the box in one motion of the mind. It seems your view is obstructed, as you cannot see certain angles.

      Don’t you find that a bit odd?

      Good luck.

      • Hi Tim (ZR),…

        I think you are mistaking my outside of the box comment… It’s in reference to the poem as being the box and the clues are within it. So when I say stay in the box it means stick with the poem because the only real clues are within it (the box).

        Don’t go out looking for clues outside of it. Yes, you can look outside of it for hints that will help you with the clues. Also, ideas and thoughts that relate to the clues. Definations of words and their synonyms from the poem, and of course maps that are related to the search area are good research material. It doesn’t mean to restrict your thinking or imagination.

        • MoW…Phewwww!

          I thought I was going to have to go into the box to pull you out….*winks*….I was having a panic attack.

          Breathe Tim….breathe…..


          Don’t to that!!

          Just funning with ya….i didn’t include “the poem is the box”…in my thoughts….because in order to see the entire poem, one cannot reside only upon the poem….like you figured.

          Cheers mate….good luck and thanks for the response.

          No harm no foul.



          • Tim – Now I know where Forrest got the material to create this quote in the front of TTOTC:

            Life is a game of poker,
            Happiness is in the pot.
            You get four cards and a joker,
            And you play whether you like it or not.

            I’m Waiting for Ships That Never Come In

          • Very nice find Lisa. Thank you!

            So I find it interesting that Earnest TUBB originally sung that song. Humm, Tubb. WWWH? Or could it be the elusive “I know it’s wet” location? Maybe both?

            A tub type natural feature just moved to the top of my list, but what do I know?


          • Excellent job, Lisa! I figured there had to be source material for that poker quote somewhere out there. This is where this blog excels: different searchers’ skills being brought to bear on the task of finding the gems hidden in the vast mine of information Forrest has provided. Thanks for sharing that find with us!

          • zaphod.- Thank you for that fine recognition. I really appreciate it. And I tend to share everything I discover, or haven’t you noticed? Let’s find this thing!

          • Hi Lug: ah, so the poker reference was solved quite some time ago. Unlike hoD and Mysterious Writings, I’ve spent perhaps a total of an hour of the last 2 1/2 years looking at ChaseChat posts. My impression was not that favorable in terms of the low signal-to-noise ratio, and so it seemed like too much work to dig for gems.

          • Hi Pinatubocharlie: I’ll give you a nudge on the poker quote. Ernest Tubb is not the hint here.

          • I have a good idea what you’re referring to Zap, but maybe this is a 2-4-1 hint.


          • Zap –

            I cannot stick this response anywhere else.

            I hope you see it.

            I agree about ChaseChat. IT’s really just a few senior members that are cool and then new people that are coming along just like with HoD. I don’t participate there.

            ChaseChat threads will come up in my Google searches and then I suffer through them.

            But really, we could say the same about HoD. And Jake Faulker did recently on Mike’s blog.I believe you were in on that thread. Jake said he checked in to see what we are talking about and we are talking about nothing. What’s awesome is that he was commenting to Lisa at the time and since then she has made more than 100 comments here. She’s cool, but she’s also pretty EC. Everything she reads, and I mean everything, relates back to her preconceived idea of where the treasure is. IMO opinion Fenn could not have physically made the trip she talks about.

            Anywho, CC has some value in older posts.


          • Lugnutz – I am sure everything Forrest read since 1988 applies to my hidey spot as well. That’s a lot of reading. I am just trying to catch up.

            And when I invited Forrest to accompany me out to my hidey spot, he said it was “tempting”, which does not sound at all like he could not do it to me.

  31. When Forrest finished the “Thrill Book” it was certain that the poem was in its final form, those final “tweaks” were in and he certainly knew that the only Bookstore that would be allowed by him to offer his Memoirs would be “Collected Works”, he could have stated that on page 9, but he did not, he said Borders Books, why?

    So few people are in tight focus with that possible “Hint” it seems so obvious, it, in fact hides in plain sight.

    What is it about a General Solve that may have evolved but no one has been within a few steps? Could it be because the 200/500 feet could be an elevation in relation to the TC as one passes nearby traveling from one place to another but never realizing that they were so close.

    How would an Architect be describing and using the 3 dimensional description in poetic lines? Words? Borders? Perhaps we are over thinking it, or were terms ff used like Rods, Canasta, and emphasizing the true dimension and importance of understanding fully WWWH. Or is there a WW1 and on another dimension a WW 2? WWWH?


      • Dear Mr. Terrific-

        If you were at the book signing, recall someone asked him about what Dorothy (owner of collected works bookstore) thought about him shopping at Boarders instead of her bookstore.

        For a split second, Mr.F’s face told he’d been caught. There was, momentarily a look that crossed his face, like the deer in the headlights.

        Struggling to compose himself, and regain his wits…Shilo chimed (covering for him) in that Boarders was no longer in business and had closed. Then Mr. F adds that we should always support our local bookstores.

        Why is this important? Because Forrest never went to Boarders…ever. He probably couldn’t even tell you where the store was located. You see boarder is a clue, similar to intersection….IMO

        • 1fSB,

          Perhaps you meant to write “Borders”; and not “Boarders”. I believe that proper use of words IS important with respect to “The Chase”.

          Definition of boarder
          1 : one that boards; especially : one that is provided with regular meals or regular meals and lodging
          2 : a person who rides a snowboard : snowboarder

          Definition of border
          1 : an outer part or edge at the borders of the forest
          2 textiles : an ornamental design at the edge of a fabric or rug
          3 : a narrow bed of planted ground along the edge of a lawn or walkway a border of tulips
          4 : boundary on the border between New York and Canada crossed the border into Italy
          5 : a plain or decorative margin around printed matter wedding invitations with a delicate gold leaf border

        • Hang on… Hold the horses… Sherif. you said ~’ Because Forrest never went to Boarders… ever. He probably couldn’t even tell you where the store was located.’

          Even though this is ‘assumed’ by you [ no problems there, assume what’d ya like ] This would mean that the so called ‘hint’ would be “deliberate” in the book… fenn would have had to ‘make up the entire story’ for going to boarder’s book story { twice } just to place the hint in the book, Right?
          If that were the case… then other stories in the book could be made up / completely fabricated as well. Wouldn’t that give folks who know fenn well an easier time to see stories they know were not exactly true?

          The other thing you said, gives me pause to wonder… you said ~ ‘ Struggling to compose himself, and regain his wits…Shilo chimed (covering for him) in that Boarders was no longer in business and had closed. ‘

          While I get, this was an observation on your part… wouldn’t that conclude that Shilo would be involved?? That idea ( Shilo- covering for him ). That he would have to ‘know about clues’ in the poem prior?
          IF so, are you under the assumption that Shilo is involved with the chase, other than just the grandson, and/or a searcher himself?

          Opinions or not… how do you conclude fenn never has been to Boarder’s book store for all the time [decades] fenn has live in SF… and why would fenn say, no one else know where the chest is, IF Shilo has the forethought to a supposed fabricated story and hint in the book?

          Inquiring minds want to know….

          • Mr. Seeker-

            It is all IMO. I was there and that was my take on it. You can probably see that moment on the tape.

            I do not think Shiloh knows where the treas in but might have some general area ideas. If you notice, Shiloh has been promoted to General Fenn’s aide de camp.

            He interjected because he saw his General struggle momentarily IMO. Just like a aide de camp is suppose to do when the general forgets a name…..

            IMO, F loves Dorothy’s bookstore and that is why he gave all the books for her to sell. I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if Dorothy’s bookstore might have been struggling a little bit before TTOTC. IMO

  32. Seeker & MOW… After thinking about it a bit, I can see the whole sentence as 1 clue.. Meandering waters warmed by the sun reach a cliff edge & drop down in a single tall waterfall or steep rapid multi-falls. The warmth halts because the drop is North facing or shaded. To get to the pool area, one must walk back from the edge of the cliff to the car & take the road until the elevation levels out and one can switch back and go to the pool at the lower level. From there go to Hob.
    Was that obvious to everybody & I’m just slow?

    • OS2;

      Sure looks plausible, but certainly does not match my solve. Best of luck to ya’ – Stay warm and TRY to STAY SAFE – JDA

      • JDA aren’t you the original (or at least longest consistent) proponent of ‘9 sentences = 9 clues’? Are your sentences each a ‘whole’ clue, or are clues embedded in the sentence? Maybe a mixed bag? OS2

    • OS2,
      Could be a waterfall, sure. But my thought is simply a blocking of travel… no matter what is causing the searcher to be blocked. Not far but too far to walk might mean… you have to go around.
      But for the life of me, I just don’t see the need for a vehicle.
      The main reason for my thought would be; fenn also following the clues “from his car, twice” when he hid the chest. Why would he need to drive out any clues..”Twice” and why would he tell us he “walked” and we need to be able to “walk” several hours “twice”

      lol, I’m not getting this forcing a vehicle being used to travel any clues. BUT i do get why some think so… just look at many many solves that involve a huge canyon that searchers feel the must travel.
      And I’m reminded of this Q&A;
      *~ Who else knows where the treasure is buried?
      I never said it was buried. I’ve avoided that word. I hid it. I don’t mean to imply that it isn’t buried. I just didn’t want to give that as a clue. It took me two trips in my car to hide the treasure. And I can tell you an 80-year-old man is not going to make a trip into a canyon, then come up and go down again. As for who else knows, I’m the only one. My wife doesn’t know. [… people celebrities]

      This Q&A is the only comment that has the wording “two trips {in} my car to the hide the treasure.” A slip up? a simple mistake ‘in’ a word? When all the other comments say “from my car” … But the question still remains… why would fenn “drive” from [ lets say ] wwwh into a canyon and rinse and repeat?
      The only way for fenn’s comment that he ‘followed the clue when he hid the chest’ to be accurate to ‘our following the clues, in several hours “twice” or don’t go’…would be from start to finish…Right?.

      Mind boggling for sure, but is that the best we can come up with… driving clues… or a thousand yrs from now, maybe a hover board or human portable transport thingamagig…

      • Oh seeker…. My point was only that I could see one whole sentence (the BEGIN sentence) as one whole clue… logically & realistically…. though not necessarily as the correct interpretation.
        My example showed:
        how the moving waters got warm,
        how its warmth halted
        where its flow halted
        How the distance between the warm & the cool could be ‘not far’ (vertical distance) ‘but too far to walk’ (horizontal distance.)

        Seeker, stay focused …. Don’t be a raincloud. Be a river.

  33. JDA aren’t you the original (or at least longest consistent) proponent of ‘9 sentences = 9 clues’? Are your sentences each a ‘whole’ clue, or are clues embedded in the sentence? Maybe a mixed bag? OS2

    • OS2;

      Just noticed your post – Sorry I did not answer earlier.

      For about one year, Yes, I was the “One sentence = one clue guy. After the winter recess 2016/2017 – I had a change of heart.

      I moved stanzas 5 and 6 to on top of stanza #1. I did this for a couple of reasons. I thought it strange that the lines –
      “But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
      Just take the chest and go in peace”
      appeared in the middle of the poem – so now they are the last lines of the poem.

      Second, Almost every riddle begins with a question. Now this one does –
      “So why is it that I must go
      And leave my trove for all to seek?”
      Are the first two lines.

      So, Since Forrest has said that “Begin it where warm waters halt” is the first clue, I can not argue with that.

      So, for me now, all of the lines starting with “So why is it that…to the line that reads, “And hint of riches new and old” are “HINTS”.

      All of the lines from “Begin it where… to Just take the chest and go in peace” = CLUES.

      I break the “CLUES” down as follows:

      1) Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down.
      2) Not far, but too far to walk
      3) Put in below the home of Brown.
      4) From there it’s no place for the meek
      5) The end is ever drawing nigh
      6) There’ll be no paddle up your creek
      7) Just heavy loads and water high.
      8) If you’ve been wise and found the blaze
      Look quickly down, your quest to cease.
      9) But tarry scant with marvel gaze
      Just take the chest and go in peace.

      The “HINTS” I left in the one sentence = 1 clue (hint) format.

      Long answer, but this is what works for me now.

      Thanks for askin’ – JDA

      • A reasonable assumption JDA. So is 9 sentences…

        Are we taking consecutive order to mean these are the only lines important to a solving of the poem? [per your example above].

        There are many comments from fenn that talk about; need to know where start, need to nail down the first clue, start at the beginning etc.
        Now while the “clues” get us closer to the chest… don’t we still need to know where to start, line of thinking? I mean, isn’t that the whole point to find “where” wwwh is and what it refers to? But how? Is it hoB that tells us? “In the wood” that tells us, the question in stanza 5, does “hint of riches new and old” nail down the one and only correct wwh…?

        fenn said you can’t go looking for the blaze in the middle of the poem, right? Doesn’t that kinda shout-out… ‘the middle of the information’? as to; “all the information to find the chest is in the poem”

        However, The blaze seem to be near the end of the “find”… per fenn’s Q&A if you can find the blaze [ how far is the chest away from the blaze ] the answer to your question will be obvious, right?

        SO, if the end of the clues are near the middle of the poem and all the information to find the chest is in the poem…. Why they heck would you simply change the idea that 561234 might not be that actual reading of the poem??? as to figuring out where to start… on the ground for the first clue… as you said now, seems to be stanzas 234.

        So here’s a question… IF stanza 1 hold the location of the first clue or all the clues… didn’t you just kick stanza 5 6 out of the running for “information”

        I’m curious to who might think HoB is the location of who “I” might refer to in stanza 1… and in stanza 5 “I” refers to fenn following the same clues references ~ ‘referring’ ~ “I” in the first stanza as ‘HoB’

        I mean, if you’re looking for a keyword to pops open the poem’s locked information… I would think “Home” is the place I’d want to be at. And yes, folks… I know fenn created the clue… but that doesn’t mean those clues are about “him” [Forrest Fenn] ~[ So why is it “I” must go and leave “my trove” lol I thought he did that already ‘treasures” right??]… maybe, we don’t ‘dwell’ enough of the first clue.

        • Seeker;

          You ask an interesting question: “So here’s a question… IF stanza 1 hold the location of the first clue or all the clues… didn’t you just kick stanza 5 6 out of the running for “information”

          In a word :”no”. The location of the stanza’s doesn’t remove the content in the stanza. I have just grouped all of the “Hints” into one group that appear before the Clues. To me this is logical. Read, reread, study and solve the “Hints” that prepare you for the “Clues” that then appear below these “Hints”.

          For me, “In the wood” is a “Hint” that tells me where to look for my WWWH – Clue #1.

          If I had moved all of the “Hints” to AFTER the clues, what good would they be in the thought processes? Little or no good – in my opinion.

          Thanks for the question. – JDA

          • Hello JDA – when you mention it seems logical, could it be that is where you should apply imagination instead?

            Not saying it’s wrong – just saying look from a different perspective each time the word logical is said. IMO

          • JDA,

            Aren’t hints a clue? They are to me the same, not separate. So what your saying is, there are 9 hints and 9 clues in the poem.

          • JDA,
            I agree with your statement that one should distinguish ‘clues’ from ‘hints’ in the poem. To give an arbitrary example; if stanza one described a mountain ridge, let say 10 miles long and then stanza two told a searcher to start at the lowest point of this ridge. Should a searcher treat this description as two hints constituting one clue, or two separate clues?

          • LitleIndianGirl,

            In your first example, about the mountain is a clue, with no name, then stanza 2 is a [direction} to start below the mountain.

            Just saying 🙂

            With JDA,

            What I also get from what you said, first you have to figure out the hint and then figure out the clue, so what your saying there are 18 steps to figure out the poem. As I said above hints and clues mean the same, not separate.

          • CharlieM;

            “Hints will help you with the clues” – Paraphrasing Forrest. No, Hints are NOT clues. I count 5 Hints and 9 clues – JDA

      • JDA, In one sense, I agree with you. But I alway felt the poem was circular, like a paddlewheel, and the start and end were not isolates. I think you may have to ride the circle several times around to understand it and anchor the clues to physical places (not to their related ideas or emotiono in the book). My armchair is a lot like Skippys Whirl-a-gig.

  34. Maybe Marvel gaze is key. If at parking place. Its tarry scant- less than one hour to get up slight difficult walk not flat but up hill. then marvel gaze. – top peak area
    with nice views. besides nature even stars at night. wonderful sight.

    I wonder about a double meaning like 2 Blazes . Where the treasure
    is at the second one. If your wise That is. both look quickly down your quest to cease. park car and hidden treasure. I think it is covered with something that makes it hidden. probable the most difficult part is finding that. Still something that is done in one afternoon in 2 trips.
    5 Hours probably. knowing where he wanted to put it before he started.
    up to the peak area and then follow it to the spot.

    • markt,
      Can You tell me more or How You came up with 2 Blazes?
      My spot has a blaze and when I look quickly down I see the 2nd blaze.

  35. Seeker,…. Here is a possible reason the first searchers were in the right place (wwwh) and hoB ,but didn’t understand or know that they were there.

    They, like all searchers, think they have the correct place wwwh. So they go there looking for further clues. Well let me explain it this way:

    Just for the sake of understanding lets say that wwwh is a geyser named Halter and it’s a certain distant (10 miles) north of the hoB (a large area named ColorDen within the town of Cody). And, somewhere below that is where you put in, as the poem says.

    Okay, the first searcher(s) who discovered that Halter geyser is wwwh, at least they think it is, They see that it’s in a canyon so they follow it down, but they don’t know how far to go to the hoB (before TFTW). They even may have pass thru the HoB and not know it, but really they did pass up the hoB. So they walk (just a figure of speech) or pass/drive on pass theTC by not knowing that they were at the hoB at some point during their trip. Then they gave up even with the correct wwwh, they didn’t know they had the correct wwwh or that they passed by the hoB.
    So now, after gettting home they email Forrest and tell him where they’ve been :

    “Hi Forrest,
    We love your book and think your treasure story is wonderful. We just returned from our trip ect., ect…..We think we’ve solved wwwh at Halter Gesyer and we went down the canyon and drove for about 10 miles and stopped to eat in ColorDen, an area within the town of Cody, then continued on to look for the hoB with no luck. We had a great time looking for the TC. Thanks”

    So you see the searchers had the correct wwwh and were at the hoB at some point and didn’t understand where they were. Now, the idea that got them there was Halter Gesyer, but in the end didn’t really know that Halter Gesyer is the correct wwwh.

    You won’t know for sure if any of your solved clues are correct until you have found the treasure. But, if you have told Forrest your solves he could say with certainty if you have the correct solve or not, but he’s not going to tell you and so you won’t know it. Ofcourse no one will know if they are right. That’s why Forrest can say that they had the first 2, 3, or 4 or more clues solved but don’t know it or they don’t know where they are in relation to the real hidey spot.

    So forget what he says about searchers solving any clues. It means nothing to us only to him. We can only imagine that we are on the right track. That’s the thrill of the chase. The thrill is the possibility that we could solve the clues and find the TC. Once, if your lucky enough, you find the TC then the thrill of the chase is over. However, you’ll be much richer. lol

    • Your scenario is good… But I recall, Cynthia, I believe saying Fenn might have stated… Searcher’s didn’t give up, they left the poem…
      If she sees this I hope she can shed some light on when it / if was said.
      If that be the case… Maybe they simply went too far walking by everything… Even within 500′ of everything.

      I’ve looked for the comment myself, but this far came up empty.

      • When I said they gave up it was only a suggestion. Well then, maybe they went on and drove by the hidey area by chance and stopped to take a look at a beautiful view and took a walk and passed the TC by 200 ft. Still not knowing or following the clues. But they went on to tell Forrest where they stopped for that view and that’s how he would know that they were within 200 ft. Same thing with any of the searchers. He would know but not them. It’s no secret that no one knows until they find the TC.

        I don’t think his comment of “left the poem” or ” gave up” will change the outcome that they or some other searchers passed by the TC within 200Ft. It doesn’t matter, as I suggested that only Fenn benefits from the knowlege of where the searchers have been because he not telling them how close they were. Now lets take the next step and find a good possible wwwh. lol. Start at the beginning for the next umpteen time. Ha, ha.

        • I think, IF the question posed to fenn was; why he thought searchers quit and his response was, they didn’t, they the left the poem [ IF that comment can be verified ] would be significant as far as, a possible distance might be understood for the clues / size of the area.

          It might help with understanding how far two trips in one afternoon works for us as the same… if you can’t walk several hours [twice] to your solve then don’t go.
          It also might help with understanding we are to follow the clues and fenn did so as well [ no shortcuts, no alternate routes, etc.]

          It also might help with understanding why searcher all walked by the clues and the chest and never knew, or figured out later clues because of a distance between the clue might be much smaller than we realize, or a / the clue[s} are not as large as we might think they are…

          The point is… IF the statement was actual… it would help in “thoughts” of what a search area size might be. I don’t think searchers just happen by a location and told fenn where they were looking at a view, is a plausible scenario… Those folks [ or at least most of them ] told fenn their “process” and what they thought their solves were… in search mode.

          “It’s not a matter of trying. It’s a matter of thinking. I mean sure, people [ searchers ] figured the first couple of clues and unfortunately walked past the treasure chest”………SFpodcast.

          Did they just leave [quit]? or did they leave the parameter of the poem?

          The comment, if verifiable… might help with all the guess work of NFBTFTW, or Do ‘we’ go into a canyon? or How far if “from there” to the “end”? Is, or HL&WH even farther away or possibly closer?

          I say help and not so much a solution, because it appears that the searcher who deciphered the clues and other searchers in the same location didn’t recognized something… was that something, the actual size of the clue’s location is my point. And not 10 miles or more distance, or the need for a vehicle to travel clues etc………

          • Seeker
            In your last paragraph, are you saying deciphered the first 2 clues or all the clues. Did Forrest say the searchers solved only the first two clues and put them 200 or 500 feet away?
            Remember I am new to the chase and trying to find prior comments require lots of time. I’m going cross eyed.

          • seeker I remember at one time I gave you my opinion of what was wwwh and all I got back was talking about wwwh im not trying to tell you what to do but you quit you did not go any further – you didn’t go in the canyon to heavy loads hob you didn’t help your self that’s why you are still asking the same questions though its my opinion you should try it you might find something that will help you

          • I’m not saying anything… I thinking out loud.
            It would “seem to me” [ quotes for emphasis ] that if searchers who were at and deciphered the first two clues are likely yo be some of the folks who were close, and yes possibility within 500 or 200 feet.

            Because you’re new, as you say, I can only say.. don’t listen to me or anyone else as fact related commenting. You are going to need to read and figure for yourself. lol there are no shortcuts.
            Plus, do you really think anyone here knows a dang thing? We’re all in the same boat, just some think their in the captains chair, but in reality it’s only a fishing chair.

          • frank,
            I don’t recall the conversation…. I may have not seen your response.

            But it doesn’t matter to me what folks think wwh refers to as much is how they got to that conclusion.
            It really doesn’t matter where they think wwh is, and more to how they got that clue to that location.

            Blurting out, for example; I think wwwh is 32 degrees or two merging rivers or a glacier etc, is fun to chat about the possibilities… but how do you get there, other than guessing.

            That is what I would like to talk about… not what or where, but how do we find the correct reference. Everything else is coffee-shop chatter.

          • blazer – there have been 2 or so different comments from FF about ‘searchers’ being within some distance of the chest and ‘walked by’ or ‘did not know’. Regarding the clues he said something to the effect that some had figured out the first 2 clues, and later something about they ‘may’ have figured up to 4 clues. The point is that he ‘knows’ people have been close, as they told him something about where they had been, these comments were as far back as 2013 I believe (so no it wasn’t you). Try the tarryscant ‘quote’ site, go to the bottom of any of the blog pages on the left side, links to other sites, tarryscant you can type in key word searches and see what quotes pop up, not everything is there, but they have a lot of quotes/interviews/email responses, can speed the search process.

          • Seeker and Tbub
            I agree, I think I saw a couple interviews with FF and he gave info and what clues they had found and what they walked by and he said they needed to have looked more at clue number ? 1 ? i think? It seems like he gave some kind of detail?
            Does anyone know where or which interviews talk about this?

        • Above some of you said “searchers” have been within 200/500 ft of the treasure. I think F said some “people” [not searchers} have been within 200/500 ft of the treasures.

          It could very well be that people in general and searchers have been that close. Let’s say a road or trail might be as close as 200 ft to the treasure. F after all knows the area and knows how close the treasure is to a trail or road.

          I can cancel a trail as F said I believe not near a trail. That leaves a road that anyone could drive by. When I say road, it is a dirt road. The road could be used on occasion and not well traveled.

          Driving right by the treasure could cause people to leave the poem as in the poems general area of where the treasure is hidden.

          My fingers have a tendency to move while I’m thinking of my mental notes.

          I stand by the “blaze” as the key word.

          • CharlieM;

            You say, “I can cancel a trail as F said I believe not near a trail.” Here is the quote, you misquoted:

            “If you ain’t the lead dog, the scenery never changes. When I am in the mountains or in the desert, the last place I want to be is on a trail. Ain’t no adventure in that for me. There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty (sic) to where I hid the treasure”.

            To me, “Very close Proximaty (sic)” is NOT “NEAR”. I would not be so quick to eliminate a trail if I were you. – Just my way of lookin’ at the poem – JDA

          • CharlieM – I agree. Trail 207 out Cabin Creek passes right next to my final Double Omega Island blaze, which is almost exactly 500 feet from my hidey spot. Lots of people, including Fall bow hunters, have been there. Only those who thought it was worth the cold to cross the creek there, and then head up the hill brave and in the wood style, would have been within 200 feet of where I think the treasure lies..Which could very well have been the location of Blackfeet Indian teepee also.

          • JDA,

            I was referring to “There isn’t a human trail in very close proximity (sic) to where I hid the treasure”. I remembered this and not quoting.

            To me, not in close proximity means there are no trails. It is all interpretation. Why does there have to be a trail? I most certainly can go into a lot of areas in the RMs and not have trails for several miles, and only a couple of roads in the area. This holds very true in my area.

            Just saying, 🙂

          • Charlie – After I said “misquoted” I realized that you had said “believe”, and NO quotation marks – sorry.

            As you say, we each interpret what Forrest says – seen from our own perspective. Who am I to say that my interpretation is any better (or worse) than yours?

            Good luck to Ya’ JDA

  36. I mentioned this a while ago on a different thread but never considered that it could be a word that is key…

    “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, look quickly down your quest to cease”

    I’m not 100% sure that if you find the blaze, the chest will be right there below it. Look quickly down may be directional… and I don’t mean down.

    To look quickly is a glance. What if you have to glance down from the blaze to the place to marvel gaze?

    This is sort of how it works in my general solve. Maybe I’m giving too much away but I figured I’d throw it out there that maybe “glance” is the word that is key.

    All this is speculation… IMO… etc….


    • Hey there TimM,

      If my key word were glance, then I for sure would be looking in and around Leadville, CO.


      • Mr. Tim-

        IMO Glance is important not as the key word but as it relates to Galena. Galena is what they were hauling out of there. Galena is the “heavy loads” part of the riddle. Another factoid which I think is a coincidence, is the elevation of Leadville…..10,200′

        Best regards;

        • Galena = glance which is why I suggested Leadville in the first place.

          10,200’ elevation is interesting, but I’d be focusing my attention on another more important factoid.


        • Bear lake at the base of galena mountain in Leadville has the most beautiful and colorful trout I’ve ever seen, with sharp clean edges on their patterns. Galena is one of my favorite minerals. With a nice sample in the right light you can see amazing blues and turquoise and hints of the rest of the spectrum. Colorful Colorado. g

  37. Your effort will be worth the cold…. The train that used to carry coal to ft worth ..

    • “worth the cold” has reference to the “Cold Desert” (Dinosaur National Park) and also “Mitten Park”, which is inside Dinosaur Park just below Echo Campground…. IMO

      • Hi Leki,
        I’d be interested in talking to you about DNM, if you want. Just ask Dal for my email, if you want.

        • I’d be happy to get in on that. I’m a raft guide and have been thru that whole area multiple times over the last 20 yrs. I know your HOB very well, but what is the WWWH?

          • Hi Mark,
            Sorry for the delay in responding, I’m an east coast searcher. I’d be happy to talk to you.
            You can ask Dal for my email too. Maybe we can get a team together and find this thing.

        • Eaglesabound, Leki
          Not sure of your timing, but I might be there next July or August. I’ll be wearing a green or tan shirt and a wide-rim brown hat. I chase alone so don’t need anyone’s email address.
          Chase well…Stay safe…

    • E.C. definitely had the most interesting ideas the blog has ever entertained. I was sad when he got nuked. Been kinda dull ever since.

      • I don’t know that he got nuked. I think I remember him saying he didn’t like all the arguing, IE from me with Faulker and Zap, so he was going to leave. Maybe I am not remembering that correctly.

        EC Waters is one of the guys whoe comes up with a great idea to get the car started but then floors it right past everything else.

        And, of course, we now have the phrase EC Watersing to refer to the process of applying clues to anything and everything.

        EC reminds me of the guy that taught me to handicap horses. Kurt knew what to do and how to teach it. I followed his teachings and made money at the OTB and track-side. Kurt ALWAYS lost money because he didn’t follow his own advice. It wasn’t enough to take the wins where you could predict them, the gambler needed to risk more and it ruined him. Kurt lost his uncle’s restaurant, an institution in Wicker Park for decades.

        • E.C. was (is) an interesting guy, but his Chase ideas were a bit cra-cra. The whole Colorado amusement park idea was perhaps his nadir.

          • Yes, I know, but great ideas in there still. All of the spice stuff, the poker reference, peel paddle bell, lots of great stuff. He just over investigated, well, everything.

          • Thanks for the link, Lug. EC was well read, apparently, thus he had great volumes of knowledge and saw clues in everything for that reason. As many of us on here know, you see enough words, you start to see patterns & themes & numbers, oh my! Patterns & themes & numbers, oh my! Patterns &…

        • Golden Retrievers and I coined “EC Watersing” with his permission when we posted our treadure hunting adventure on this blog. My understanding is he was nuked shortly thereafter. Haven’t seen comments from him for a long tine on MW…I don’t follow CC. He was hilarious.

          • @Sandy, EC wasn’t nuked that I know of, he just went crazy and had to check out but we all know you can never leave! I’ll email him see if he is lurking around still! IMO, when F said, ‘get back in the box’, he was talking to EC!

          • Tbh, I haven’t followed this blog for a while. Nice to see it’s pared a bit, including me since I’m batsh** cra.

            Hopefully in the coming months I’ll be able to finish a thought-inspiring website using some fun tech with the site concept based on SB62.

  38. I am thinking more and more that the whatchamacallit has not been buried, but is hidden. This thingamajig is fairly easy to hide. Searchers should not allow themselves to be discombobulated with all the rigamorole that seems to come with this adventure.

    The doohickey has been out there for 7 years now–a gizmo that is truly difficult to locate. Someone is going to find that whatsis, and I think it might be soon.

  39. Oh, one other thing when thinking of words. I was in New York for the Macy’s day parade. I was sitting on a 5th floor balcony eating a large plate of Fettucine Alfredo. I stood up and with one movement I changed the spelling of a word.

    As I cast the plate of pasta over the balcony, onto the crowd below, I realized that my dish had now become Confetticini Alfredo. I wanted to share that because it was a real eye-opener.

    • how come nobody is talking about the “tight focus” part of the comment? whats that all about? forget trying to figure out which word is the key one. who has a close-up photo of a any word in the poem? i do.

      • Dodo Bird. I haven’t spoken about it though I am one that has focused on the “tight focus”in that part of the statement. I tend to see all his words as an elucidate for other words. Easily dismisssive is this by being out of focus. IMO .

        • LOL, too funny.
          So what you’re saying is.. you’re still not talking about it…
          Ha! I guess will have to wait to hear it from your reincarnated self.
          My bad, I couldn’t resist…

          • Seeker. Sometimes you do hit a good funny cord lol. I don’t reincarnate ,I just incarnate haha.

            So, I will elucidate on what I mean then, as a question. What word in the poem would be a handshake essence with “tight focus”?

          • “Me” ? Really? That’s interesting. Not what I am in tight focus of for a relative essence. How about ” tight focus” as ” marvel gaze”? 2 for 2 of words? No?

  40. The quote is “… a word that is key”. The use of “a” instead of “the” implies that there two or more words that are key. Forrest seems to be telling us that we are overlooking the significance of, or are not considering a possible meaning of, a word that would open a path toward the solution.

    • If you are going by the thought of a word or words are “key”, defined as essential, then doesn’t it say the word is “that”?
      A word “that” is key. Since you are saying there is or are words which are “key”, doesn’t that line answer that? Then,, using “a” instead of “the” would still imply one word. “That”.
      I don’t see the word “that” opening up the path, poem, clues, hints, or much of anything.
      Just saying “a word that is key”, and referring to some key words or word, and not using the whole comment as stated, only leaves one answer that is answered in the line. You need to find if he is talking about searchers being in tight focus or if he’s stating “clues” are in tight focus. Then, you need to find out if that tight focus is with a “key” or some magical word. Then, you need to find out that if he is referring to a “key” which is in tight focus, what the key is. Then, you can state whether the “key” is one word or many words that are in tight focus with either searchers thoughts or clues.
      I still don’t understand how some cannot see that the key is Forrest Fenn, but I guess guessing is now the new norm…Some magical word that will help solve this whole thing, lol, amazing…

        • Yes he did, all you need to do is read it. What is not so understandable? It’s “key” or “that”, straight forward, exactly what the comment says. Any different is force fitting a solve. Any magical word is a guess. There is an ATF comment out there I don’t have right now that is also proof the key is Forrest Fenn. Along with his comment in the book. Between “that” or “key”, it is “key” he is referring to. What is so concise about the statement that makes you think there is another answer? Unless you are putting your own definition to words and guessing, which would make it not concise, and give the idea of a word that will solve all, there is only one way to read this statement. Exactly how it is written. The only word that is key is “key”. Replace that word with any other word in the statement, what then would you think the “word” is? A word that is lake, a word that is mountain, a word that is car. Why the difference then? Maybe because most are defining “key” with there own definition and not reading the statement correctly. If he said a word that is lake, would everyone still be guessing on what some magical word is, or would they think that the clues or searchers are in tight focus with a lake? If he said a word that is Tom, why would someone be guessing blaze, wood, water, shadow, creek, etc…etc…etc…
          I think I am reading it correctly, but who really listens when someone is right? So does it matter? Let the guessing continue…

    • In my solution there are multiple words in the poem that are important keywords, but three of them are keys. The first word that is a key takes you to clue 5.

    • I have dreams about a bank on which the treasure is found looking up but thats just my brain on sleep mode what i saw last night was a piece of wood on the hang over it spelled someting i remembered weird right im never in tight focuse

  41. Little Indian Girl
    I see you made short comments a few times and have said you know all the 9 clues.
    Being you are new to the blog. How did you come about learning all the clues?
    You seem to know all the key words? Was your solve given to you from another person of trust and do you know Forrest Fenns line of thinking by learning who the man is?

    • 1trailblazer
      I don’t know all 9 clues. I know the first 5 clues and the framework for the next 3 clues. In my solution the next 3 clues have multiple solutions and I can’t see passing them without BOTG. The biggest struggle I have is with the last clue ‘brave and in the wood ‘. Would the last line of the poem contain clue information?

      • 1trailblazer, I think you should keep following all three possibilities. Then You’ll have more info when You do get BOTG. Who knows what You might find sooner than later, so don’t stop there. Good Luck

  42. Mark and Eaglesbound
    I would be very careful about trust and asking anyone to partner up with you. Remember that Forrest Fenn said, and I don’t know the exact quote but something like two people can trust each other only when one is dead. I trusted someone with our solve to join our search and have figured out that this person his wanting to be the lead dog after we told him our solve. He was supposed
    to join us and then couldn’t make our first BOTG search and now he will be searching or solve area with his crew. Just a friendly reminder, don’t team up and trust nobody. Greed is at it’s worst when it comes to treasures.

    • Thanks 1traiblazer.
      I believe Forrest said, “two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead”.
      That being said, you’re right about the greed part. Such a shame it is too. I like to think people can be trusted.

  43. A ‘few’ the rest are trying to hard! IMO! Keep it simple folks….the word is in the first few stanzas because no one at that point in time had figured out more than the first few clues….based on emails or communication with F….IMO….Search Season of 2013, any searcher/newbie after ’13 isn’t who he is speaking about….

  44. Off topic: Thanks for the ‘hello in there’ tonight, Mr. E.C.Waters, et al….

    Alive and Well! Good to hear from you!

    Please bring me my wine…..!

  45. Has anyone considered an endorheic basin for WWWH? Lately, I have been getting real literal with the poem. Defining warm waters together is an ocean or sea not in the artic or antartic regions and endorheic basins are defined as water falling as rain to the ground that does not drain into any ocean directly or indirectly…hmmm my Sunday thought of the day.

    • I’ve considered the Great Divide Basin in Wyoming as the perfect WWWH.
      It has lead me to Brown’s Hole, and eventually to Echo Canyon near Dinosaur Nat. Mon.

      But I have too many missing clues going in that area.

      • The Great Divide Basin is a large starting point…at this time if Brown is on my atlas I rule it out unless history shows it is where one named Brown resided…but who knows I could change my mind abruptly at anytime when drawing my lines on the map 😉 glad to see someone else thought of an endorheic basin…I only just started reading this blog after emailing Forrest about a thru-hike I took and have no desire to go read the thousands of threads on here….who has that kind of time?!

          • It’s a desert. But depending on where you narrow down in that region I imagine you can find sage brush, pines, and few other varieties…note the great divide basin is not where I was thinking.

        • LoLo, Fennatical, OS2
          Brown’s Park / Brown’s Hole and DNM sit in close proximity to South Pass below the Oregon Trail and above the Old Spanish Trail mostly half in Utah and half in Colorado and some parts reaching a bit into Wyoming. They offer contrasting landscapes and many species and varieties of life forms, some in abundance and some only from a historical view. As far as Brown’s Hole / Park connection to someone named Brown there are several competing stories. IMO, there are many possible connections to FF and his poem beginning with places one might consider special. There’s a who’s who list of explorers, traders, frontiersmen, settlers and outlaws to boot (not the hill). Just to name a few: John Jarvie, William Henry Ashley, Major John Wesley Powell, George Y. Bradley, Baptiste Brown (really or actually Jean-Baptiste Chalifoux or character invented by Colonel Henry Inman?), Kit Carson, Joe Meek, Uncle Jack Robinson, Alexander Sinclair (Taos), William Clark, John C. Fremont, Dr. John Parsons and wife “Snapping Annie”, Herbert Bassett, Josie Bassett (McKnight Ranney Williams Wells Morris), “Queen Ann” Bassett, Robert Newell, Robert Redford, Wild Bunch (Harry Longabaugh a.k.a. Sundance Kid, Butch Cassidy, Etta Place, Elza Lay, others), Kid Curry, Tom Horn (a.k.a. Tom Hicks), Nellie Barr (“Pretty Little Nell”), Charlie Sparks, Esther Campbell and the Kolb Brothers (famous expeditions) and many indigenous tribes folk.

          A couple of my very early BOTG chases included parts of WY and UT, but then I heard from a reliable source Indulgence isn’t located in Utah. I now take some comfort knowing that I’ll need to go through or over some parts of Utah to locate Indulgence. It’s been a while since my last visit to Brown’s Hole and DNM. My next BOTG chase may be July/Aug 2018 and I sure hope it takes me through both areas. Although beforehand, think it would be wise if I had the first clue.

          I just realized I wrote some unintended hints – please ignore them.
          Chase well…Stay safe

  46. Rainbow – Just revisiting the date of February 4, 2014, when Jenny first asked and Forrest answered with the key word comment:

    1Q) My previous 6 questions were asked shortly before last year’s February 27th segment of the Today Show. Reporting on your extraordinary treasure hunt, it resulted in an explosion of new seekers from all across the world. What are some of your thoughts about the flurry of activity over the past year? Did the excitement towards the Chase surprise you in any way? Does it make you think the chest might be found earlier than first thought?

    “It is interesting to know that a great number of people are out there searching. Many are giving serious thought to the clues in my poem, but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key. The treasure may be discovered sooner.”

    Serious thought to the clues in the poem, which he also.mentions in that Poem intro. paragraph on his site. The nine clues. But then there is the end of his rainbow and the treasure…

    • Key Word: rainbow –

      Forrest’s Old Santa Fe Trading Company site was published on the NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams site, after the February 28, 2013 broadcast. That is when I join The Chase, and used The Thrill of the Chase Resource Page to refer to The Poem. Here is the intro. there:

      THE POEM
      This poem written by Forrest Fenn contains nine clues that if followed precisely, will lead to the end of his rainbow and the treasure. Happy Hunting!

      Tight focus on rainbow???

    • In music, B is a key. Be is beryllium, with an atomic number of 4. If we focus on tight focus, should we look at a lens, like that which makes an eye? I is iodine, with an atomic number of 53.

      There are at least 6 words in the poem that directly transform to atomic numbers. The first word is the first one, arsenic. Some are homophones, like yttrium and uranium. Some can be found with a mirror, and a few more that can be linked through synonyms, like can is to tin. Perhaps a periodic table is ~ the punctuation needed for the title?

      In other places, F is like fluoride, and a good reason to keep a toothbrush around for that smile. I mean, if we’re looking for coordinates from words, this might be a good start. Perhaps warm waters halt at 32?

      Cholly, you prolly shouldn’t have emailed me to see what I was up to.

      • Actually, If warm waters halt being a liquid, water crystalizes at -48 degrees C. Maybe WWWH, does have something to do with glaciers. At 48 degrees you could find: Glacier national park, Browning, Rainbow falls, etc….. Just need longitude and minutes and seconds latitude. Easy enough…:)

      • @E.C. Waters, we all love you! lol! How deep is hole?
        Checking mail today, my book better be there or Andrew will get an ear full!

      • I like that line of thought EC. I’ve also looked at elements and atomic symbols. One that I looked at is “Put in below…”. I really wanted it actually say “Cut in below” as you could view it as Cu tin bel-ow. Cu/copper + tin is bronze. Hence, bronze bell.

        I think this breaks the rule of messing with the poem though. I don’t have a problem with moving the space between the words since anagrams (which are rearrangements of letters) are allowed, so moving the space between words should be OK. But changing the P to a C is a change that I think is “messing with the poem”.

        For a while I tried to convince myself that the letter was changed because saying “Cut in below the home of Brown” would cause at least a few people to go out and damage things. So to avoid inciting vandalism he changed the first letter. But on further consideration I’ve thrown out this possible interpretation.

        Now I’m left with “Pu tin below…”, and since Pu is the atomic symbol for plutonium I guess my next search will take me to a nuclear waste dump. Wish me luck.

    • Key Word: Rainbow – On page 147 of TTOTC, there is a picture in the shape of a rainbow of Forrest’s epitaph. I believe he intended to engrave that epitaph on the rock that covers the cache that hides the bronze chest. In fact, I believe he carried that engraved rock, probably resourced from his San Lazaro Pueblo digs, already out to his hidey spot on a previous trip in his backpack.

      And 42 is the answer to life, the universe and everything, which figures into the viewing angle to see a rainbow…

      There’s a good number for you, EC Waters,…great to have you back here! Have you considered Molybdenum as the home of Brown? There is a Moly Mine North of my hidey spot. Put in below…

        • Lisa, I remember researching rainbows a while back and I always thought, how many 360 rainbows did Fenn saw from the air on his travels. Do you think that this general location where the chest is has the conditions to form a 360 rainbow most of the year or certain times a year? warm waters halt…

          • OZ10 – The 360° rainbow is formed by the split in Cabin Creek that forces that creek around a central circular Island. It can be seen from Google Earth or Forrest’s plane year round. But in the early morning, in Spring, when there are heavy loads and water high, when the mist rises from that creek, I believe an actual rainbow would be formed. And I can envision Forrest standing there fishing, while it does.

      • JDA – Thanks for your reply about this image above. I totally agree. I can just see Forrest posting a stone like this over his cache to hide the bronze chest:

        “I wish I could have lived to do, the things I was attributed to.”

        As I posted previously, maybe his original stanza for the Poem was a nod to William Shakespeare’s epitaph. Some think his writings were all attributed to Edward de Vere, Earl of Oxford. Here’s my idea for that stanza:

        If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
        Look quickly down and spare these stones,
        But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
        Just take the chest and leave my bones.

        • Don’t know if you are aware of it or not, but a few years back there was a lot of discussion regarding what are believed to be some of the original lines of the poem: “Look quickly down beyond the stones, Take the chest but leave my bones.” It was never proven that these were – in fact – the original lines, but a lot of people put faith in the fact that they were. Please do NOT take it as face, because – as far as I know – this is just supposition.

          Interesting that your lines are similar – JDA

          • Aaron – Totally awesome! Thank you for that link! That is a scant to tarry at and gaze and marvel.

            John Colter certainly went alone in there, as pdenver wrote.

          • Sure thing, I just noticed it after reading Sparrow’s post about Colter. By the way does anyone have a reference that Colter said AIHGAIT?

          • Lisa;

            Following your train of thought is like following the flight of a hummingbird. Beautiful to watch, but hard to make sense of for an old mind. JDA

          • Ok- I give up…f was indeed referring to a stone….the kind every girl wants….just saying……IMO

  47. Here is another thought about a key word, among thousands of thoughts. Perhaps the key word could be ‘marvel’. As in Marvel, Colorado. One could begin a journey where warm waters halt (the cold water trout areas of New Mexico, and drive toward and into the area of Marvel, Colorado.

  48. key word is I, there are 6 possesive I’s in the poem.

    I will go be crazy over here.

    • thatwierdcrazyguyagain, You said key word is I, there are 6 possesive I’s in the poem. Do you have any thoughts to “So why is it that I must go”?

  49. tight focus seems to be a ff fav idiom like “steal the burnt umber”, he uses the same term “tight focus” in a story that niether brought any thing tight or focused. (paintings at 17.00 an inch).

    Just like his admitted perpondence to start every sentence with a capital letter out of habit.

    There is too much, i have seen key words be everything from Elements in the periodic table to the word Sex. we need to start pealing … eliminating things that it cant be, so we can focus on what it may be.

    this whole pattern of rythem, repetitiveness, capital letters, even the inclusion of 2 words that dont rhyme perfectly are mirrored in his poem “mirror”.

    the redundancy of words, and the exact mirror of oposite words for each and every word in this poem, (for every up there is a down, for every warm there is a cold) the unncessary “As I go” the focus has to be around the word I. the word is found in only the begining and ending pp, it may even allow a rearranging of the lines of the poem as many of the i questions are answered in the poem or eluded to.

    Another thing, is simplicity….. simplicity has long left the building, ff said a kid could get it? yet we entertain secrete codes from the viet nam era?

    I believe the posessive Is to be key in some way, the i questions and answeres in the poem are the only thing that do not go circular.

  50. Dear Lisa-

    Maybe it would be wise now to look up where there are Molybdenum mines. IMO it could have something to do with the quest.a thought Then I would start at zero.

    Best wishes-


    • OS2 – Did you know there is a Molly Brown Bar in Bozeman?

      Molybdenum….lead…Leadville…her husband, J.J. Brown was a miner. And did you know she was a read head? A post I did on Forrest’s blog:

      3:22 PM ON JUNE 24, 2014
      CROWDOG – I just knew those two red heads were connected! And, of course,…I found out how:

      As a young girl, Molly learned to steer a boat on the Mississippi River and, for a while, she worked as a waitress at the Park Hotel. She then moved west to Denver, Colorado after one of her customers, Samuel L. Clemens (Mark Twain) told her about the riches of the Rocky Mountains. She married and, in 1890, her husband struck it rich in the mines of Leadville. They bought a sixteen-room house on 1340 Pennsylvania Street which is now a museum of Victoriana.

      And I think it is fitting that two riverboats,…at Disneyland,…are named after them:

      The Frontierland area of Disneyland Park has the unique distinction of featuring two riverboats, Mark Twain and Molly Brown. Each riverboat features a recorded conversation between the Captain and Mark Twain or Molly Brown.

  51. I’ve been BOTG 3 times, and have put quite a bit of effort in figuring out the treasure location. Has anyone ever REALLY thought about why tens of thousands of BOTG and armchair searchers haven’t been able to find the treasure all these years? TENS OF THOUSANDS of interested people / IQ’s / effort / teamwork / etc, / etc… Ever REALLY taken the time to sit back, alone in a quiet place, favorite chair, perhaps with a good burbon over crushed ice (I’m from Kentucky) and pondered this? If you think you have the answer, please feel free to respond. Note: I (personally) believe TT is out there. So, relax, knock a couple back, and think on it. I believe I’ve come up with an answer (to the above question) and would like to see if anyone (at all) is thinking what I’m thinking. Remember…TENS OF THOUSANDS of BOTG and armchair searchers, and yet…still no correct solve.

    • When I get to my spot this summer and the treasure isn’t there I’m going to take in the beauty, smell the pines and listen to that beautiful tone in the air of silence. If I see an animal, I only hope it’s a big grizzly at 100 yards down wind.

      • 1tailblazer – I agree. My answer to T.J. is My Grizz is blocking my way to my hidey spot. Period.

        But as Forrest has said, the treasure is where you find it….in the Rockies. I know I have found mine on all my search trips to my area.

        • You just have to bring that out of shape searcher ( not an insult to anyone) as you run from the grizzly stay 20 feet ahead of the slow guy you don’t like and while he eating him or her, circle back and just grab that chest and get to the car before the Rangers get you.
          Good luck to you

      • 1trailblazer,
        Are you sure you want the grizzly to be 100 yards downwind?

        If I were you, I’d want the bear to be upwind!

        –Just sayin’ 🙂

        • Heck no I want to use my bear spray. Last trip me and my girl forgot to bring it and had to buy two more cans. Now we have 4 cans. We’re drawing our weapons with both hands now.
          Bet ya Sheriff Billy only has one, but he probably has better aim. Lol

        • Fennatical, 1trailblazer
          Bears in the Rockies have a powerful discriminating sense of smell and easily detect & identify scents within a mile or two – upwind, downwind or no wind. If you got food they’ll smell it before you. If you got any dead meat they’ll smell that even better, sooner and at greater distances. I sure won’t out run, out climb or out swim a bear, although if proximity allows I’d jump off a ledge into water. Just hope it’s not too far a leap into shallow water or into deep water with rocks near the surface! Bears can and do appear even in the most unlikely places, but unless very hungry or in protective mode, they’ll probably avoid / leave you once they smell or detect you. Making noise as you chase and carrying bear spray good ideas, but for the latter one needs to be closer for it to be effective. Some relatives of mine have suggested I carry a 357 / 44 magnum handgun or Glock 20 10mm. I’ve never encountered a bear in the wild – at least that I know of – and IMO not likely to in area where Indulgence is located. Plus a handgun means I’d need to have expert aim to hit just a couple critical spots on a very fast moving and approaching target – all under duress and most likely more than once. I just don’t see me practicing all this first and becoming expert. As FF said I “…might as well stay home and play canasta”. And in that one-in-billion chance I shoot not just once but twice, thrice or more and wound or kill a bear, then I’d have all that paperwork and explaining to do to the Feds, Indian law or private landowner. Friends of mine in New Castle, CO recently had a few young adult bears foraging their neighborhood at all times of day for about a week. Eventually they were persuaded to leave and did just that on their own accord. Have a memorable, Happy Thanksgiving.
          Chase well … Stay safe…

    • IMO TJ,
      90% of the searchers don’t post on the blogs and of the ones that do , don’t post their solves.
      So I’m not sure how you can make this statement.
      I hope you’re not gonna say that the TC is moving.

      • Hi, Eaglesabound,

        Not making a statement. Asking a question based on a few estimates of how many searchers are actively looking for the treasure in one way or another. We’re starting to reach percentages here i.e. Why can’t 100 kids find a single egg in a 50′ x 50′ space, using clues in a poem? What might be the answer to that? I love looking for the treasure, both at home and BOTG. Won’t stop, but I’m changing my understanding of what the poem is when figuring my next solve. Answering the question (if I’m correct) could change the whole direction of how to solve this thing. I’ve never seen my idea mentioned in the blogs, and I follow a few quite closely. Just putting it out there to see if their are some liked minded souls. 🙂

    • TJ, I would say it is because nobody has been able to think enough like FF to follow what his interpretation of the clues are.

    • Hi TJ….BTW….My initials are also TJ!!


      To answer your post…I’ve always stated to the community that there is an esoteric connection to the puzzle.

      In fact, I just recently suggested in a post to someone that they should meditate and try to………wait for it……

      “Be the chest”…..have you ever tried remote viewing?


      Be the chest.

    • TJ – Of course. There have been thinkers. Please remember that this blog has certain rules and is considered to have a certain premise. If a searcher has a idea that is against any of the rules, it’s out with them. I don’t know how many blogs are out there or what their rules are. There is a reason for sure otherwise it would be found. Maybe you will be the one after so many years. 🙂 My life suddenly took a fork in the road and it is not good. I doubt that I will continue with the search.

      • I’ve come to a couple of very challenging “forks in the road,” Crow. Not fun. Hang in there. I wish you well.

      • TJ: according to Bella Abzug, “everything is on the table”. Including a fork but no spoons — for folks sipping coffee. But nah … there can’t be any hints in the illustrations.

    • They fail in following instructions. They fail in not solving the poem. They fail with the thought of what they think someone else would do. They fail with no number system. They fail because they do not critique themselves hard enough. They fail because they think they can solve the clues. They fail because they guess too much. They fail because they only see it one way, theirs’. They fail because they don’t drink enough bourbon…

  52. Lately I’ve been rethinking; perhaps a word that is key is: “Brown.”
    A key can unlock something. Maybe this key (word) unlocks the poem,
    to wit, FF has said, “If I told you that (who is Brown) you’d go right to
    the chest”. 4 / 2/ 2013

    Since there are many places in the RMs WWWH, per FF, the right
    WW can only be ascertained ATF by ultimately finding the chest.
    However, before the finding, many other clues such as: hoB, heavy
    loads, canyon, creek, water high, sedan, sagebrush, pine, etc. etc.,
    will help to confirm or reject if one is on the right track.

    Again, if knowing who “Brown” is will allow one to “go right to
    the chest,” couldn’t “Brown” be a / the word that is key??

    As an aside, when I found a hoB that is designated by a bronze
    plaque, I tried several times to get a good photograph of it. Either
    I was too far away so it was unreadable, or too close so it was blurry.
    Eventually in just the right / tight focus I got a readable picture.
    I doubt that’s what FF meant by “in tight focus” but…maybe?

    • Come on Davy–

      If you are going to use that handle, you need to think like a mountain man. IMO you need the area to fit the poem…not the poem to fit the area.

      If you were a mountain man where would you hang..

      Best wishes always;

      1 F Billy

      • Sherif,

        I was born with the handle D……Crockett, ’tis
        my real name.

        I think I disagree with your premise. The area
        was there first, with all its difficulties (to fit a poem
        to), with all its peculiarities, its geological and
        geographical features, its unique features, etc.
        A poem written to lead one to a special place in
        this area would have to fit the area. The poet
        might have to agonize and rework and use poetic
        license and so on, for maybe even 10 or 15 years
        in order to fit the poem to the area.

        What if the poet would really have preferred to
        use a line such as: when you get to the river
        the cold will make you shiver? Since there is
        no river in this certain area the poet had to
        work with the word “creek” instead, and so on.

        If I were a mountain man I would hang from a
        tree if I was bad and the sheriff could catch me.
        However, since I would be a good mountain man
        I would hang out with my fellow homies in the
        wood, around the fire so I wouldn’t be cold,
        eating venison and biscuits and drinking whiskey.

        Pleasure chatting with you, Billy.

        D. Crockett

    • D. Crockett,
      I would think that Brown is important for all the thoughts you have… but I have to wonder if “home” is not just as important to understand.
      There are Many wwh in the RM’s comment leads to the thought that there could be many canyons as well [associated to each wwh] and probably just as many HLAWH, as well… and all points in-between. But, could it be that there is only one home of Brown… ‘need to know where to start’?

      But I have to ask this question ~ Why is “sedan” a clue to you. There’s was never a mention of how fenn got to the hide until many years after the publication of the book. We didn’t know he took two trips from his car, or it was done in one afternoon… which automatically should raise the question… why wouldn’t a searcher be able to solve this on spring break or a Sunday afternoon?

      Refresher; “I’m not flippant about this. It’s not something somebody is going to be able to do on spring break or a Sunday afternoon picnic. I’m looking a hundred years down the road, maybe a thousand years down the road. People don’t understand that.”

      • Seeker,

        Thanks for the question about “sedan.” This is going
        to be a long answer, more than you asked for, no

        Years ago when I first saw the article about FF in
        the glossy Sunday Magazine insert with the pictures
        and the back story and the poem I thought to myself
        yeah, yeah, yeah, New Mexico, canyon, water high,
        home of Brown, no place for the meek, etc. It
        sounded dangerous, inscrutable, difficult to solve,
        far off (in distance) and unlikely for anyone to solve
        who wasn’t from that area, so I paid it no mind. If
        it had mentioned Nevada I would have saluted,
        however. I at least have some affinity for Nevada.

        As news coverage continued (Randy’s death,
        recovery 6 months later) and so on I decided to
        study the challenge. I started to learn additional
        clues given by FF that weren’t in the poem, eg:
        RMs, many WWWHs, altitude 5k -10.2K, 4 states,
        SF to Canada border, don’t go where an 80-year
        old man couldn’t go, 2 trips to spot in an afternoon,
        drove a sedan, 500 ft, 200ft, etc. In fact, I think the non-poem clues have been as helpful as the poem’s

        When FF said he drove a sedan I immediately
        inferred that the location was NOT out some
        remote, rugged, rutted 4wd Jeep trail, but rather
        near a road that is groomed enough to drive a
        sedan on. Therefore a groomed road would be
        one that would be traveled upon by more than
        just a few people, so the area should be quite
        accessible (when it is not covered by snow or
        mud) instead of out in the remote boonies, yes?
        Looking on maps should show these types of
        roads, along with creeks and canyons, all of
        which have to fit together to start solving the

        Secondly, FF had or maybe has a Jeep. His hat
        is in the Jeep. It seems that it is his preferred
        vehicle; maybe his only one? I have a Jeep.
        I have never imagined it to be a sedan. I suspect
        that FF has never called his Jeep a sedan, either.
        If he indeed did the chest- hiding in one day and
        was back to SF in time for dinner,wouldn’t he
        just take his favorite vehicle, the Jeep? I don’t
        subscribe to that theory, therefore. If FF flew
        to a small town in another state to hide the
        treasure, how would he get around after he
        landed? Rent a sedan I’d guess.

        Therefore, to me, the word
        “sedan” implies groomed road, not remote,
        well traveled (you don’t groom a road if there’s
        no traffic), and a location too far away from
        SF for an 80 year old man to drive his Jeep to.
        Just my opinion, of course. It definitely got me
        thinking that maybe the chase wasn’t so out of
        reach after all; one could practically drive near
        to the hidey spot. Again, my opinions.

        Yes, I do believe that there is only one hoB that
        fits the poem, and one creek and one canyon
        and so on.

        Good luck.

        • D.C.
          A sedan is nothing more than a passenger vehicle that is enclosed. The insurance company use terms like 4 door, 2 door, Pick-up, sport, convertible, suv for a rating system on pricing. fenn’s jeep 4×4 is a sedan…
          The simple thought that fenn wouldn’t consider the word to match his Cherokee, because you wouldn’t consider it a ‘sedan’ is going to force you to think the way you are…

          Two other things that you might have forgotten or didn’t know… fenn let his pilot license expire and sold his plane. To actually fly to a location, someone else would have to have been with him. How likely is that?
          The other thing you said was…’ be home for dinner ‘ I have yet to find that comment coming from fenn, yet many talk about it as fact. Using this idea, again, force fits a solution that needs to be close to home only.
          Personally I would think you would want to use correct information that we know of, and not so much, what others have said/believe over the years to force fit their perfect little solves.

          The one thing many say and still use is that a ‘child can walk right up to the chest’ fenn debunk this comment, yet it is still posted as fact by others.
          Why is this little discrepancy important for me… it might explain how well the chest is hidden and not so much hanging in a tree or under a bush line of thinking.

          lol I get a kick out of some of these search videos, when a searcher peeks under a fallen tree and says… this is my ‘in the wood’ and the chest is not here, someone beat me to it… at a place across a paved road, feet from a bridge, a couple hundred feet from a bed n’ breakfast. After ‘driving’ past all the other clues, like this challenge is nothing more than a tour bus excursion.

          As far as what a ‘sedan’ can do… you should never ride with me. Many of my 2 door, 4 door, rear wheel drive cars, have gone places many of these deck out 4×4 owners would think about going and scratching their daily driving to work, gas eater, just to point out the window and tell their co-workers… ‘I’d be a redneck.’

          • Thanks, Seeker,

            I do know that FF’s pilot’s license had
            expired and he had sold his plane. I
            do think that anyone can charter a
            small plane or take a commercial
            puddle jumper to any small airport
            for any reason without the pilot
            knowing what your business is / was.
            I do not imply that FF would have flown
            himself, IF indeed he ever did make
            such a trip.

            When I was logging in the 70s for a
            gyppo outfit I started out with my 1969
            Datsun 510 sedan. With 300 pounds of gear in the trunk I could go up most
            any skid trail but could never make it
            over the stumps. Those were the days.

            In the future I will strive to use only
            correct information and not try to
            explain my thought process to you.
            Thank you.

            D. Crockett

  53. OK. Sherrif Billy has to do some serious sherrifing to do.

    I leave you with the key word IMO

    That word is the foundation of all the clue in the poem. Most people fail because they don’t listen.. Two or three times now Mr. f has said something like…I don’t think people know the meanings of the words they use or where they came from… and about that time he might have given an example of an upset woman who called her own son a SOB, not realizing what she was saying.

    The key word(IMO) is why. If you can figure out the meaning of why, the poem crumbles apart.IMO.

    SB and DK

    • You guys are guessing. You are giving these words that are supposedly “key” words, but show no way of how you came to those words from solving the poem. Using words like perhaps, maybe, and “In my opinion” are even more proof you are guessing. So, in other words, you are wrong.

      ” Playing a hunch is nearly always fraught with disappointment, especially if the stakes are high. A searcher who guesses through life is destined to carry a thin wallet.f”

      “Playing a hunch is not worth much in the search”

      Guessing is about as “taboo” as is initially messing with the poem. Be hardest on yourselves, you know when you are guessing, you need to tell yourself, either prove it with the poem, or, discount it because it is a guess. You might as well just get a dictionary, open it to whatever page, pick a word, and there you go. Do you think that example is viable and would help in solving the poem? I hope not, but that is what everyone is doing basically. The quicker you learn it, the quicker you can get to solving the poem. No guessing…

      • Charlie. I agree that the ” word that is key” is a core data function for the program called the Poem. It should be a word that propagates all other words by its expansion from its core meaning. Therefore, other words can be seen as a link on the chain. 166 words should be easily connected to the ‘key’ link word. It may not make any sense on its own but it could make sense as it flows along to the other words, and combinations of words, using logic and imagination. Otherwise the word just becomes like a number ; sending a mind through many endless numerical calculations that never make any sense.

        Just my personal opinion on the mechanics of the ‘ word that is key’ .

        • and that is fine. if it’s not just some random guessing and if you could incorporate it into the poem, and figure it out with the poem, i’m all ears. but with most just throwing words out there, guessing, makes no sense.
          the way I read it is ‘a word that is key’ is the word key. it’s what the line says, and, i’m not putting my definition in its way. that’s not to say that is the way, there just may be some magical word that chains the whole poem, a “link” if you will, I could see that, but the poem would have to tell me somewhere, and would be nice to have some back up info for something so important. but if people are guessing with that, they probably guessing with it all, not a way to go…

        • Or, the word that is key is not in the poem at all, but is at the “heart” of what the poem is about, and what Forrest’s life has been about. JDA

          • JDA. I actually think along the same lines. The word that is key may not be a written word in the poem and my chosen one is not. One word came to my mind after reading it a few times. I could almost ‘title’ the poem with it . IMO.

          • JDA, when this chase started, all he said was that all you need is the poem. That means only the poem. So, how would you find a word outside of the poem? With the key not being in the poem would mean that there is no key word. You can’t have it both ways. Either the key is in the poem or there is no key. If you think it’s something to do with f and the way he lives, then it will be answered in the poem. The key could still be outside the poem as long as the poem tells you it is. If you say it’s not in the poem, nothing to do with the poem, can’t be solved from the poem, but there is a key outside of the poem, then that totally does not make sense and would have nothing to do with anything chase. And, by the way, have a happy thanksgiving…:) (and stop guessing, lol)

          • Charlie, I think the poem tells you that a word that is key is outside the poem. My example of that is posted downthread of this.

          • Charlie;

            The treasure CAN be found by using only the poem. The Word that is Key is NOT an absolute requirement for finding Indulgence. I was “aware” of the Word That Was Key from the time that I made my first solve, but I was not aware of the fact that it was the Word That Was Key at the time. For the first year, I had two different Words That Were Key. It wasn’t until I found two more blazes, all relating to this Word That Was Key, that I had been “aware” of from the beginning, that I began to see its real significance.

            Had I not made this final connection to how valuable it was, I might have given up on my area, and therefore given up on any chance of finding Indulgence,

            So, you see Charlie, I CAN have it both ways, and there was an error in your logic – as I see it anyway.

            Hope you had a GREAT Thanksgiving and you are thinking about a joyous Christmas – JDA

          • Charlie;

            Maybe I can make it a little clearer without giving away too much.

            I had worked my way through the poem up until “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze.”. No BotG yet, just working off of TOPO maps and GE.

            I saw a name on a map that COULD possibly be a blaze. My wife and I made a recon. trip to the area, and I saw my blaze. WOW – what a blaze it was. It was at that moment that I became “aware” of the Word That Was Key, but did not yet know its significance. So the line, “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze” – words within the poem – led me to the area, BLAZE is NOT my Word That Was Key – but what the blaze is, later became my Word That Was Key – Clearer? I hope so. JDA

          • JDA – Exactly. Straight from Forrest:

            The Key word is contentment. If you can find it, everything else has already fallen in place”

            And Contentment is Joy. What would your answer to the Egyptian God’s be? Mine would be Yes to both. And if Ammit weighs my heart, it will be light:


          • If solving the poem gave you or you recognized the key from a solve, then I can see that. As long as the poem either solved, verified, directed you to it, then I’m okay with it. Like my opinion matters anyway. The thing I have a problem with is all this guessing that is going on lately. Just a waste of time. When it comes down to it, if the poem is all you need, then everything should be solved from the poem, no matter how hard, it’s all in the poem, right? Of course.

          • I agree Charlie;

            Guesses are like armpits, everyone has at least one, and I find them of little value – especially in solving the poem. JDA

          • charlie – When Forrest said, “All you need us the poem”, he didn’t specify WHICH poem. I think he meant Little Gidding by T.S. Eliot:

            What we call the beginning is often the end
            And to make an end is to make a beginning.
            The end is where we start from. And every phrase
            And sentence that is right (where every word is at home,
            Taking its place to support the others,
            The word neither diffident nor ostentatious,
            An easy commerce of the old and the new,
            The common word exact without vulgarity,
            The formal word precise but not pedantic,
            The complete consort dancing together)
            Every phrase and every sentence is an end and a beginning,
            Every poem an epitaph. And any action
            Is a step to the block, to the fire, down the sea’s throat
            Or to an illegible stone: and that is where we start.
            We die with the dying:
            See, they depart, and we go with them.
            We are born with the dead:
            See, they return, and bring us with them.
            The moment of the rose and the moment of the yew-tree
            Are of equal duration. A people without history
            Is not redeemed from time, for history is a pattern
            Of timeless moments. So, while the light fails
            On a winter’s afternoon, in a secluded chapel
            History is now and England.
            With the drawing of this Love and the voice of this
            We shall not cease from exploration
            And the end of all our exploring
            Will be to arrive where we started
            And know the place for the first time.
            Through the unknown, remembered gate
            When the last of earth left to discover
            Is that which was the beginning;
            At the source of the longest river
            The voice of the hidden waterfall
            And the children in the apple-tree
            Not known, because not looked for
            But heard, half-heard, in the stillness
            Between two waves of the sea.
            Quick now, here, now, always—
            A condition of complete simplicity
            (Costing not less than everything)
            And all shall be well and
            All manner of thing shall be well
            When the tongues of flame are in-folded
            Into the crowned knot of fire
            And the fire and the rose are one.”

          • JDA,
            How can you claim to have found the actual blaze? being right at it… and still come up empty each search.

            Q~ “Mr. Fenn: How far is the chest located from the blaze?” ~ casey
            A~” Casey, I did not take the measurement, but logic tells me that if you don’t know where the blaze is it really doesn’t matter. If you can find the blaze though, the answer to your question will be obvious. Does that help? f”

            Logic dictates if anyone was that far into the clues [ whatever number clue ya want that to be ] the chest would be know to that person.
            Distance at this point doesn’t even seem to matter, the word that is key doesn’t seem to matter now…

            It would seem to me that the word that is key might be more a ‘plot’ climax to the poem…

            You said; ‘…and I saw my blaze. WOW – what a blaze it was. It was at that moment that I became “aware” of the Word That Was Key, but did not yet know its significance.’

            Well, if true… would the find be ‘obvious’ as well? fenn seems to think so, right? Regardless of any magical word that this far in the poem.

          • JDA, & Lisa C,

            It’s no wonder people go outside of the poem to create things that don’t even relate at all to the poem, with what both of you are saying. I think both of you are grasping at straws to find the TC.

            I think your efforts is to force things to fit your solves. I completely agree with what Charlie and Seeker are saying. There is nothing in the poem that tells you to go outside of the poem for clues or hints.

            When I started my search I used only the poem to get to my area and once I had botg I realized the blaze wasn’t correct at all. However my search area is still the correct area.

            I always have stayed in the confines of the poem.

          • I am also one that thinks the ‘word that is key’ is not a word in the poem but rather ,it is of the poem. As FF said there is no cypher, codes …etc. So, I tend to read the sentence as it was said,

            “Many have given serious thought to the clues in the poem but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key.”

            It is not a key word but a word that is key!!!

            A couple quotes from FF in SB 124:
            “And I perform typos with a physical dexterity that no one can respect. But it’s my word arrangement and memory loss that bother me the most.”

            He then gives an example following above said:
            “I caught a nice fish and with it he took my photo. I mean he took my photo with it.”

            Ok, so it’s “word that is key” not ” key word” . So, I don’t look at it as an “unlock” function that is unsinuating a cypher type word.

            Ok so, in this SB 124, he said he doesn’t remember where that fishing spot is and his friend won’t tell him where.

            Middle school question: Q: Did you name the poem The Thrill of the Chase?
            FF -“No. I forgot to name it.”

            I never read his books but saw enough of their contents to be helpful. I read as much ATF comments as I can see. I ficuss on the poem in the main. My word that s key is what the poem title could be . My word that is key could be the missing tittle of the poem being of what the poem is about. To me it is the essence of the poem.

            Perhaps he is pointing out in SB 124 the point of what he actually said not what poem say he said- key word vs word that s key- remember ? No?

            A word that leads and gives meaning to other words- of the Poem. It’s not actually , by this definition, looking outside the poem.

            “I give you title to the gold”

            Just my thoughts of opinion…today anyways.

          • Seeker;

            It is so difficult to explain the process that I have gone through to reach the point where I am now – in a few paragraphs.

            Solve #1 took me to the place where I said, “Wow what a blaze it was.” I “Looked down”, expecting to find Indulgence, but alas, she was not there. I could have quit, but did not.

            As Forrest has said, read the poem over and over, and over etc. I did and
            instead of starting over at the beginning, I started anew, from my last location, and found a NEW wwwh etc.

            This led me to a new blaze that had something in common with blaze #1. It too was spectacular.

            And, to the end of the poem, again expecting to find Indulgence – no such luck.

            So, I started again, from where I ended, and this time, I found a new
            water high, that led me to a third blaze – quite some distance from my original search area. Although I did not actually find Blaze #3, as I had expected, what I did find “kept me in the race”. I found a new way of looking at the poem. Forrest had said, ““What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve.” Is this statement still accurate? ~ Thanks, sumbuddy
            Yes sumbuddy, and that is why I recently suggested that searchers consider the “what ifs.”

            I think I found the “important possibility related to the winning solve.”

            This information led me back to an area near where I found Blaze #2.

            It is here, that I expect to find at least one smaller blaze, and probably three new blazes (all related to blazes 1 and 2) that will lead me to EXACTLY where Indulgence is hidden.

            Long answer Seeker, but hope it explains (at least in part) the processes that I have gone through to get to where I am, and a bit about blazes and the “Word That was (is) Key”. JDA

          • CharlieM – I found my hidey spot and emailed Forrest with my solve in March/April of 2013. But I have yet to be able to reach it BOG. And I used only the Poem and to do it. Well I also used that L&C story on his website corroborate the details. And the rest, as they say, has been Brown gravy.

            “He who laughs last laughs best.”

            And from another Forrest:

            “That’s all I have to say about that.”

            Big Smile.

          • All this talk about multiple blazes, all the words in and external from the poem as keywords, or who wrote to fenn, and out came confirmation of someone solve… well, imo… goes against everything fenn has stated.

            Has anyone considered the blaze to be the poem?? Not a track to be stomped, but a description of what ‘the blaze’ looks like…
            Place an X on a map… Not X’s.
            If you find the blaze your answer will be obvious… Not blazes.
            Match the clues to ‘a’ place on a map… Not Places?
            The poem is a map… isn’t a blueprint a map as well?

            Does anyone think or even given it a thought that the blueprint is the creation of the blaze itself, or can’t we adjust our thinking enough, that this thought is tooo backwards to straightforwards.

            “Certainty of the location” was the first thing fenn tells us we should have “beforehand”… before we leave home… Yet, all I hear is miles and miles of stomping, driving, boating, drone flying…. seriously are there folks out there, in the vastness of the internet, that have a different adjustment/perspective/ to the line; ~IF you’ve been ‘wise’ and ‘found’… What?

            My important possibility thought for today… the word blaze isn’t the magical word that is key… it might be exactly what the blueprint tell is to seek. The chest is nothing more that a prize and the place is what fenn holds in high regards and respect… ‘a’ place that is fenn’s marker.

            Right, right… all the above crap is only an opinion. I’m just wondering if anyone else has even considered stepping away from their perfect, failed, solves to even consider what a ‘blueprint’ design fenn might have been thinking about… to make it work.

          • Well Seeker;

            You could be right but then again I have never seen the need for a blueprint for a 10′ X 10′ cabin. Blueprints are needed only for multi-roomed structures.

            A blueprint can take you from room – to – room. From living areas to sleeping areas to cooking and dining areas.

            The blueprint shows you the flow from one area to the next, from one room to the next.

            I see the poem in the same light. It takes me from one area to the next, until at last, I can see the treasure hidden within one special room or maybe within a wall of a sort. Who knows what secret places the architect designed in his “Master Plan”. JDA

  54. The meaning of WHY is HUNH. It doesn’t matter if its not in the dictionary if everybody knows what I mean,

  55. IMO … IT. In the very first line add the letter “y” to the last word, and you will see “in theory”,. “It” is an anagram for in theory. And any place he uses IT is not a REAL place.
    therefore begin it where warm waters halt is a theoretical place as well as take it in the valley
    Imo, even hob is theoretical and the 2nd stanza is a mathematical equation

    • How bout this way to look at the word ‘it’ in the poem. The ninth line says from there, it’s no place for the meek.

      Most essentially figure that means they can’t be meek from that point on. So don’t be meek. If you read that line again while not being meek it essentially reads from there it is the place. A confirmation…

    • Thanks for some clearly stated thoughts. I’m wondering what types of places are theoretical. Once, for the fun of it, I tried to make the clues correspond to the different levels in Dante’s Inferno. Didn’t get very far but had some fun with it. Is something like this what you mean by a place in theory?

        • I’m sure that we’re not the only ones who saw similarities to Mr Fenn’s poem in the opening of the Inferno. I’m guessing it’s not one of the books in his library though.

  56. Fundamental Design – OK,. so the last line prior to that says:

    Put in below the home of Brown.

    At that point, we have arrived at the place? The it place? Where we shouldn’t be meek, etc.?

    Am I following you?

    My Forrest’s Plan B solve corresponds to that line of thinking, and Donna M did a search for me quickly down from an Owl Boulder blaze right there. No luck, though.

    • Lisa, my best sense is we are to continue on a dirt road in a certain direction when we put in below the home of Brown and shortly after come to the it is the place.

      I think we are at the point of switching to botg when we find it is the place. Find it…imo it is the blaze. Confidence is key.

      Good luck on your searches!

      • Fundamental Design – Donna headed from Dal’s Where Warm Waters Halt down Highway 287 in a car and put in below Hebgen Lake as home of Brown, at the Day Use Area next to the Madison and below the dam. She put in a canoe there with a fly fishing guide she met, and the Owl Boulder blaze was located on the opposite bank, just below where the one of the largest 10lb Brown trout was ever caught by Bob Jacklin. That was also below no paddle up your Cabin Creek trailhead, where My Grizz, the Brown bear, always blocks my path to reach my Forrest’s Plan A spot. And the meek will inherit the Earth, so Donna took the water route, in a canoe, to my Forrest’s Plan B Spot. That was my alternative hidey spot, in case Forrest had done it tired. But I think he did drive an sedan to get to that Day Use Area, usually with only one car with fly fishermen parked there. He would just have to make sure it got back there, in one afternoon, before dark.

  57. I think the word that everyone seeks is “peace”

    Peace on Earth
    Peace in your heart
    Peace of mind
    Peace and quiet
    Peace of the pie
    Peace brother

    …Peace out

  58. Seems to me that IF, as FF stated, “a few are in tight focus with a word that is key” … it is NOT doing them a heck of a lot of good. Therefore the “word” must NOT be that important in the overall search.

    What I believe to be of more usefulness is HOW exactly FF will know WHEN the chest is found. That fact has eluded me since the beginning, but it probably has NO bearing on “a word that is key.” I do however believe that knowledge would go a long way to unlocking the treasure location.

    • Becky. The ‘how’ he would know always has interested me too. I do think ‘with the word that is key’ is somehow connected to how he would know it was found. I think it’s connected to whatever “It is something saved especially for the person who solves the clues.” I believe they are connected . Because if there was a title for the poem, all words and clues would probably be easier understood and identifiable. Therefore, there is a word that is key and something especially for the finder and he is pretty sure he will know if it s found ( paraphrasing) . These are all linked. IMO .

    • Do you think this information will help find the chest or just help find it once you have solved the poem. In other words, is there something that eludes us at the blaze that this information will help with. Since I’m still trying to find wwwh then I never think about how he would know, but maybe I should. I guess if the area is small where all the clues lead us, then the information could be relevant to wwwh.

    • Hi Becky: while the few that “are in tight focus with a word that is key” have so far been unable to leverage that knowledge to find Indulgence, it doesn’t necessarily mean that the word is unimportant. It could very well be necessary, but insufficient by itself. For instance, if the keyword is critical to identifying WWWH, would you not agree that it’s a pretty important thing to figure out? Clearly solving WWWH is not enough to find the treasure chest since many have done so. But if you haven’t solved WWWH, Forrest says you should stay home and not spend your money.

  59. “Many have given serious thought to the clues in the poem but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key.”

    What I take from this quote is, that only one word in the poem causes some to be in tight focus and that is the Blaze.

    There in its self is the blaze, only that one word is the main key. Sure you can find all of the clues prior and after the blaze, I believe that one word unlocks to where the treasure is located. Without knowing what the blaze really is, one can be in the right area and never find the blaze and the treasure.

    Sure most people imagine what it looks like a marking on a tree, rock etc., but can not say positively that it is the blaze. I think that some choose to find anything for a blaze because of the area they are in.

    However in TTOTC there is just one place that gives a clue as to what the blaze is. Its in the “text” of the book and not in any picture or stamp. I can reasonably confirm that the blaze in my solve is it.

    Sorry I’m very vague but I do have to protect my solve as all of you do. We all know we can’t truly confirm where the treasure is until its in the hand. I will not put botg unless I know what the blaze is, any thing else will keep me home.

    The blaze needs tight focus and is the key to where the treasure is. All else can be found on the map via GE including the blaze.

    • This Q&A response from FF could be seen as giving credence to what you think:

      Question posted 5/28/2014 concerning the Blaze in the poem:

      Is the Blaze one single object? ~ Scout Around
      “In a word – Yes.” f

      Perceptions are currently endless. IMO .

      • In response, as one of the currently endless perceptions – Each of my blazes IS a single object – there just happens to be more than one – JDA

      • I find it interesting the way Forrest answered that question. It was not a simple “yes” answer. The way I take his response is that there are multiple components that make up what he considers a single object.

  60. CharlieM: you said: “I can reasonably confirm that the blaze in my solve is it.”

    Please explain how you can confirm that your blaze is correct, if you are able to without giving your solution away.

  61. F. said that all anyone needs to find the treasure is a the poem and a good map.

    I’ve found a word in the poem, unlike any other word in the poem it works as a key of sorts; however, I don’t have a map that is good enough to confirm that the key is viable.

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