Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Thirty Nine


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751 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Thirty Nine

  1. It is interesting to note that Forrest has just about completed the education circle. He was once an education denier and practiced classroom escapee who has now become an advanced reading vocabulary assignment for ESL students…
    What more is there to life??
    I suspect they do not mention his alternative spelling of “Knowlege”.

    Review the questions for some interesting ideas about Forrest’s vocabulary.


    • Brilliant—a teacher writes a lesson plan regarding the TTOTC and gives same to their students, thereby secretly enlisting the student’s help deciphering and gaining understanding the poem…
      there’s still time for me to get my teaching certificate, just need to figure out when I can do the student teaching portion around both attending class and working full-time… 🙂

      • Lisa—

        Mr. f is fascinated with mountain men. Every mountain man carried a “Green River” knife.
        The knife was made in Greenfield, Mass. back when. Greenfield is a few miles from Deerfield, where there is another elite boarding school which my deputy graduated from. “Green River” was engraved near the handle.

        When a mountain man said ” I gave them the Green River” it meant the engraving was covered up. Not so good if you were on the receiving end…..

        • Sherif Billy – The first Trapper Rendezvous site was at Green River in 1825.

          And some fur trappers, like Osborne Russell, appreciated the intellectual set:

          “I envy no man that knows more than myself
          and pity them that know less: Sir T. Brown.”
          Reader, if you are in search of the travels of a Classical and Scientific tourist, please to lay this Volume down, and pass on, for this simply informs you what a Trapper has seen and experienced.

          From the title page of Journal of a Trapper, which Forest loves. He has been to more than one Trapper Rendezvous reenactment.

        • I also am fascinated with mountain men! Jim Briger is my favorite!
          Having a Bowie knife was so important in survival! If you didn’t have a knife you certainly couldn’t dress an animal and sometimes it was the only weapon you had and that’s better than nothing! I’ll never go out in the wilderness without one!

          • Martha – From Journal.of a Trapper. When Osborne Russell met Jim Bridger:

            “Next day June 20th we arrived at the destined place. Here we met with two companies of trappers and Traders: One is a branch of the “American Fur Company,” under the direction of Mess Dripps and Fonanell: The other is called the “Rocky Mountain Fur Company” The names of the partners are Thomas Fitzpatrick, Milton Sublett and James Bridger. The two companies consist of about six hundred men, including men engaged in the service, White, Half Breed and Indian Fur Trappers. This stream is called Ham’s fork of Green River.”

        • OS2 – You are most welcome. I am now second on the wait list at our Community Library to read one of the two new copies of Origins, that were coincidentally both just held for a patron today. Timing is everything.

          I have read: The Da Vinci Code, Angels and Demons, The Book of Symbols and Inferno.

          If Dan is the home of.Brown in the Poem, then I think I have taken it in the canyon down, on his written pages, and put in below there. I am always thinking about how Dan Brown’s ideas and themes relate to The Chase.

          And where is Robert Langdon when I need him????

          • Lisa, I think that Dan Brown review reflects a new wave in books and TV dramas. I think the topic emerges from the popular HOMO DEUS, A Brief History of Tomorrow, by Yuval Harari. It’s his sequel to SAPIENS. Hope you get to read it if you haven’t already. Unfortunately it is printed in small type on glossy paper that strains the eyes. But the content is cutting edge. Technology has already passed sci-fi & put us on the edge of needing neither bodies nor afterlife. Raises very Interesting questions.

        • OS2,

          Homo Deus and Sapiens were 2 of the best books I read this year.

          I haven’t met too many people though that have also ACTUALLY read them. If you want to discuss those in some other channel I’d be open to that.

          Also if you liked those perhaps you would be up for “The Vital Question” by Nick Lane.

          It looks at the most perplexing question of evolution — the existences of Eukaryotic cells and all complex life. It explores the relationship between energy and DNA and Mitochondria. Awesome stuff!


    • Dear Dal—

      It is my suspicion that Forrest has a learning disability termed “Inattentive Attention Disorder with Dyslexia”. IMO
      Now that is classified as a disability because… the normal is defined as like the majority of the population. If you do something outside the norm, that makes you abnormal.

      IMO Inattentive ADD with dyslexia isn’t so much a disability…..but a gift. These people have a gift in innovation, creativity, and an uncanny ability to grasp the big picture.

      We are just now learning a tiny bit of how incredibly complex our brain is and how the various little parts of it work and function. Brains are like cars, we all have the basic functions, but some are like Subaru’s, pickups, semi-trucks and others like BMW’s or sports cars.

      Forrest’s brain is like a BMW (and it’s fun to drive). It’s an older model, but it has low mileage and everything still works just fine. He said he gave up driving but don’t you believe it. Driving his BMW brain through a crowd of people, like at the latest book signing, is like the guy zooming in and around, cutting in front of and maybe off onto the shoulder, in the Los Angeles highway traffic.

      Those guys always zooming in and around me, piss me off. But what if…….you couldn’t see them? THAT!.. is how Forrest’s BMW brain works. Thinking is invisible. Duh!

      Yes indeed, every make and model of brain has some advantages and disadvantages. A BMW Z3 doesn’t have much room for groceries , and spelling is like groceries. Leaving the parking lot at the grocery store, the guy loading up his minivan laughs at Forrest struggling to get his stuff in his BMW Z3. But he can’t see the Z3 or that he is driving the minivan as Forrest pull away from the stoplight…..Zoom!

      I myself think I am driving a dump truck (with an oil leak) with a heavy load of gravel. Don’t get too close and watch out for your windshield. Don’t tell anyone I’m drinking a cool cowboy koolaide as I’m truckin along the HOD highway.

      Best regards;


      • Billie
        Sometimes your the windshield
        Sometimes your the bug
        Hoping you are the wipers.
        Washing all the crap away

    • Starting out learning English with the writings of Forrest Fenn seems to me a bit like jumping straight into the deep end of a pool in order to learn how to swim, but if the students are ambitious enough to try, then have at it!

      • Twin-
        I haven’t heard a thing from the producers. But I know that story will get pushed around by actual news…and there seems to be plenty of that lately…

    • ….don’t run your fingernails down the blackboard. Those were the days!

      Now we have dry erase boards – where’s the fun in that?

      • I still use a blackboard. I retire from teaching in 4 months. Perhaps I’ll run my nails down theboard on the way out! 🙂

        • You should see my cork board with yarn on it!!

          I tell ya…Mr Custard did it the pueblo with a archeology brush.


        • Tims – i dunno what version of Cluedo you’ve been playing lately.. but i WANT one!! 🙂

          • CH.,..,adobe of the many Time here…

            What do you mean?


            Is that a down,under game you play with koalas?


          • Let’s try that again….

            CH…..as one of the many Tims here…

            What do you mean?


            Is that a down,under game you play with koalas?


          • it may be rather an unknown fact, but Koala’s don’t actually play Cluedo TimZ, due to the major difficultly of setting the board level so high up their Eucalyptus trees – not to mention the wind factor 🙂

  2. Pdenver – Per your guess on the last odds and ends page, you guessed correctly. Little details like that can mean a lot.

  3. Thank you for sharing, Dal. I have been BOTG since Friday (cold here), and just yesterday was wondering if some cunning teacher/professor/educator would use his/her students to deduce the resting place of Indulgence.

    • Teal – be careful out there searching in late November! You are one brave and devoted soul to be out there now.

      Good luck and stay safe. Hope you bring back the gold so we can all rest this winter!

    • I’ve tried that with my college students. No one seems the least big interested. I think a correct solve would be worth an A, don’t you?

      • Bob. No one I know in my vicinity is interested in even hearing about it lol. What do you teach?

        • Communication. Intercultural Communication this semester. I’ve even tried to enlist the help of colleagues….to no avail. I think it must have to be genetic. We should all have the dna test. Perhaps a lot of us who search are related in other ways.

          • Bob. Nice, thanks for responding. I also do some cross cultural communications. I work in the oil and gas here as a consultant for developing First Nation persons for remote camps and catering.

            I wasn’t even interested in this chase at first awareness either until I dreamt about it one night lol. I enjoy this mental challenge- going somewhat mental lol.

          • IInteresting thought & observation Bob. Find the gene or the synaptic intersection or the pheromone for unreal expectations & ridiculous passions. Im calling Shark Tank right now.

          • it should have four divisions-one for east state. Sign up according to your state-preference. Begin with what clues you believe to be true, and post solves to only members of that state’s group. it would mean taking a stand but might started to reduce duplicate solve. We can cove more more surface area together than alone and avoid silly rabbit holes. the team that finds the loot put it in a vault for 30 days and follow the instructions found in the box. Done right, The Thrill of The Chase as enough to go around and have each search realize something when it is finally in our lifetime rather than 1000 years from now when I won’t care a lick. I’m sure one or two of us a lawyers and put a deal out that we can sign promising to share. One thing that would really be a bummer is if the treasure is located AFTER i die….never realizing the genius of the author. Does this make any sense to anyone?

          • We all ought to form a search company and share the booty, movie, book and solve. I think it would be nice if we all got a piece of the pie. The movie rights would be nice to share as well. Crown Sourcing might work. Remember the blogger who was using prison inmates to solve the poem? What ever happened to him. As I recall he was a gambler.

          • I think that is a great idea Bob. While it would be fun to find the treasure solo and be able to keep it for yourself I believe would be just as happy being part of a team that find it. I just want to see it found soon and would being a part of finding it and celebrating it would be a blast.

          • **** Bob proposed – “it should have four divisions-one for east state. Sign up according to your state-preference.” ****

            “Each state” is an arbitrary division. I think in terms of a comprehensive knowledge of geography, and so search in terms of watersheds.

            Specifically, I search in drainages that end up flowing through the Grand Canyon, so SW Wyoming, W Colorado, and NW New Mexico to me form a more coherent collective than any one artificially bordered state.


          • it you had a lost child or animal you would do a seach. Nice project to people in the fresh air and pumped up about the mystery of a hidden fortune. Get the universities, study archeology, historians, poets. and prime their pumps to help us go find it. Certainly it is work a three credit course. After all, they teach BOWLING at my university. Why not treasure hunting

          • Bob;

            Getting two people to agree on any particular aspect of a solve is a MAJOR undertaking. How do you expect to get agreement from a group of 5 or 10 or 20?

            What is wwwh? If I take every Wyoming searcher and ask them, I doubt that I could get agreement on that one topic.

            Every group, winds up with a leader. It can’t be helped. How do we elect our spokesperson or leader? Does the leader have more decision making authority than anyone else? I can see it taking FOREVER to decide on one solve. And how do we reach agreement that we are at the point of putting BotG? Do we all show up at a designated spot and all search, or do we elect a “Search Team”?

            And the list goes on and on and on.

            Nope, I can’t even get my alter-ego to agree with my ego. Group think is not for me! Just my opinion – JDA

          • JDA, I agree that getting people to agree on a solve, especially one with holes in it, can be tough. I do believe however that a group of open minded individuals could work together. There would not necessarily need to be a leader if they could make group decisions and put things to a vote that needed. This would all need to be agreed upon up front.

            This solve may require a number of qualities that is hard for one person to muster. Logical thinking, imagination, common sense, deep thinking, ect. A normal person may only be able to have one or two of these traits but a team of people that have all of these combined and brainstorming together could do more. Whether it leads the team to the treasure I don’t know but their opportunity would be multiplied IMO.

          • JDA – I agree with you on group think and group solve. It’s seems like an easy concept but, in practice, there could be many problems.

          • AAron;

            The very first element in a group project would be trust. How much can I trust the members of the group.

            I have been working on my solve for almost two years now. I have my wwwh – which I think is key. For almost two years now I have kept this location a secret from fellow bloggers. Am I about to divulge this secret to a group of people I can not even look in the eye? All I have is a screen name.

            Who is “Aaron?” – can he (or is it really a she) – be trusted? We all sign a paper saying we will trust each other, and if we find the treasure, we will all share equally – but can I trust this piece of paper? So, I give up my precious wwwh, and the team rejects it. I have given two years of my life to this wwwh – do I now give it up, just because 9 (or so) other’s don’t like it – for what-ever reason? – Not likely. So, what do I do now? Quit the group, after learning “Their secrets?” – Go behind their backs and continue to search both “their wwwh and mine?

            Sorry – Just too complicated for me. I have always been a leader, not a follower.

            I am the “leader” of my search team. Do I listen to other’s and their input? Certainly, but in the end, it is I who decide where we search. Sure, some times, we search in an area that I did not designate, but most of the times, I present my idea, explain why I feel it is a good choice and then we go search that area. Obviously I have been wrong in almost every choice, but I have been able to show my team that we are truly getting closer – and why.

            Best of luck to you guys if you do try the group-think process. No one has found Indulgence yet, so maybe it is time to try something different. – JDA

          • JDA, I get what you are saying. If you are truly convinced that your solve is solid then it would not benefit you to give it up to a group. If you are a person that has exhausted their solve area, doesn’t have a complete solve, or feels they are on the precipice of completing one and just needs a little more help then a group would work.

            Trust is a nice thing but there are ways to prove who you are and come to a legally binding agreement on the chase with ID, even notarized signatures.

            How can I buy a piece of real estate in another state without being there physically? By proof of my existence.

            You could even tie someones email address with their screen name by emailing them and telling them something to the effect of: Please post on Odds and Ends and have your third word in the post be Yellowstone.

            Anyway, the point is I believe it is easy enough to get past just trusting people.

          • Would you trust your attorney? Does Trump trust Congress, Does Congress trust Trump. I would say no. Did Forrest Fenn trust his attorney by giving him the location. I would say he didn’t give him location only the fact that he would be placing the chest on public land and the legality of the placement. Believe me, I put trust in what I thought was a good friend only to find he knows a good portion of my solve. Only to find out he has his own team. When it comes to trust, you can probably trust your wife but other then that you may as well just let us all know your solve. I promise, cross my heart and what’s your PIN number at the bank. IMO, do it yourself or don’t do it all. Just

          • I get what you’re saying trailblazer, but like any relationship there’s always the possibility of failure.
            There is one question though, did this person go on to find the treasure and live happily ever after?

          • I could be wrong about him, but if he finds it I hope he at least buys me a new truck. Having transmission problems with the one I have now. May just say the hell with it and ride a bike.
            I know I can still do 20 miles there and 20 back.

          • JDA and those kind enough to add their input into the pooling of search info. Your point is well taken and I hope each searcher has the opportunity to exhaust their ideas and find the treasure. If, however, a number of searchers have already done this but would like to keep their hat in the ring, it might be efficacious to have 5, or 10 or more like minded individuals work out an arrangement where possible sites exist. For one thing we could pool our resources and send a few honest people out without physical handicaps or financially embarrassed . Kind of like a couple of experienced folks to check multiple possibilities. If I could spend 100 bucks to search four of five sites it would be a lot less expensive that to spend 5,000 to go to those places in person. Again, some people are unable to get to the rockies because of multiple reasons as explained above. Again, I would like to be involved somehow and see the discovery before I go to the happy hunting ground.
            I’ll bet we can find a couple of takers who already live there to handle this.
            My opinion all. Maybe it’s not feasible but it’s a thought.

    • Hey Dal….I had to re-read this 2015 article again, just to see what FF said, that may very well help us seekers.

      I garnered at least two quotes I think are helpful:

      “I’d say he thinks out of the box, but there is no box in my dad’s life,” said Fenn’s daughter Kelly, who told me that Fenn’s provocations often crossed over into family life.
      – some folks also realize that one must also think outside the box to make their solve the winner. I know I do and have always thought like this.

      “I’ve said many times that everything about my poem and my book is straightforward,” he said.
      – simplicity is a key function we all must be kind too and embrace. Many don’t and travel endless rabbit holes thinking they have it simple. i.e. Billy the kid drove through Taos, and FF is such a SW guy, he definitely involved his marking system as the Golden Circle had!! Wa-La! Silly, huh? Maybe or maybe not? I just thought of that off the top of my head. I’d be surprised if that helped anyone…hehehe…

      “Because you’re part of it now. Instead of being a spectator, you’re a player.”
      – I’ve said recently that we are the players in this Game Master’s field. We need to play or leave the field. We need to understand the game’s rules and parameters of the game. When do we move forward, when do we move backwards. When do we draw a card, roll the dice or just take a chance?

      The Rocky Mountains are the rules. We don’t abide by those rules….*clears throat*…some harm will be possible.

      We need to let our Game Master guide us.

      Good luck to all!

      For your reading pleasure:


      Mentoring is about helping individuals develop a positive future. It’s almost incredible to imagine the power that one individual has who can inspire another human being by teaching, helping, consoling, loving, lending a helpful hand or simply listening. All of that can alter the course of an individual’s life for tomorrow.

      Everyone is a mentor at one time or another. Recall those special individuals in your life who have inspired you and helped you along life’s journey and see the magnitude of their mentoring in your life and others. Find them. Thank them.

      The double omegas icon is the symbol for mentors/mentees, especially if you are working with children or young adults. The double omega is an alignment of a large and small omega representing the mentoring relationship between a caring adult and youth seeking to unlock and fulfill their potential. The double omega icon embodies a committment to quality mentoring in all its many and varied forms.
      Make a difference in someone’s life – mentor someone today.

      Good luck to all.

      • Tim, great post.
        I agree with you, thinking outside of the box would probably be helpful. I also, think your idea of “simplicity is a key function” is a good reminder.

        • Hi Lisa.

          That is but one of two meanings I have found to represent what the “ΩΩ” mean to me.

          The other is a bit more dartu,gbut fitnicely as well.

          I actually sent the other to FF, but never rcvd a response, not that I expected one….hehehe.


          • Sherif Billy – Yes. That too. But Forrest’s publishing company is called the One Horse Land & Cattle Ltd Co.

            I once asked Forrest if he would bring his One Horse and his Cute Donkey out to Cabin Creek Trailhead to take me to my spot. He politely declined.

          • Lisa-

            Once Billy got down off his horse to open a gate and let the other riders pass though. While I was closing the gate, my horse decided to walk along with the others. Billy decided to walk back to the barn…it wasn’t too far to walk.

            Now on that side of the fence, we had left a 2 year old stud colt. We didn’t want him to come along on our trail ride, because he was always acting wild, bucking and running ahead.

            Sometimes, where the trail came to a tight spot, wide enough for one rider, he would come racing back along the trail the wrong way. Anyway, we had enough of his bad manners and so we decided he couldn’t come anymore.

            Well on that fateful day, we had excluded him from the trail ride and he didn’t like it. As we disappeared over the horizon, we could hear him whinnying snorting and racing back and forth along the fence line.

            Now when we came back after a few hours, he seemed to have calmed down as he greeted us by the gate.
            As Billy was now grounded off his horse walking, Mr. studley decided on a plan of retribution. Calmly he walked up along side me. And then….BOOM!.. it was like I had been hit by a car.

            Billy was sent flying sidewards to the direction he was walking, crashing to the ground like a crumpled pop can. I waited an couple of minutes to see if he had lacerated my liver from the concussion, and noticed him standing there looking at me like the victor with a smile on his horse face.
            My deputy and her friend were going crazy like I was dying, so I wasn’t quite sure if I wasn’t.

            Did you know when you break some ribs that you have to sleep sitting up in a chair until they heal? Laying down bends the broken rib everytime you take a breath.

            I think he might have killed me, if he had got in a double kick. I however got the last laugh. Deputy (about 10 years old then) helped the vet acutely reduce his testosterone level.! The vet just threw the severed baseball sized parts into the brush, whereby Katie asked what was going to happen to them.

            The vets reply was some lucky raccoon would find them and have them for dinner.

            That’s the only time Billy was kicked, and It hurt BUT….., I’m thankful I never crossed paths with that coon….

          • Billy – facetiousness is solely a human trait unfortunately, so thanks for reiterating that fact – shame it didn’t succeed into kickin’ some sense into ya! 😛

            ( ..GO the horse!! 🙂 )

          • Sherif Billy – The backwards kicking horse makes the Double Omega…awesome! Maybe Forrest can use his Publishing Company to publish a book of your stories and he can be your writing mentor. And then you can use the Double Omegas the end to acknowledge him.

          • Billy I might have run into that raccoon, literally. I came around a tight corner once just as two adolescent coons were crossing the road. One of them scampered to the side of the road, but the other stood on its back legs put his arms up and looked real fierce. For a fraction of a second, not enough time for me to react.

            I think that really high levels of testosterone might correlate with winning Darwin awards. So you might not have to worry about running into that critter.

      • Regarding the meaning for the Double Omegas, that possible list of definitions is -definitely- larger than those that I see above/below.

          • Dear Mr. Tim…

            I can’t stand it anymore..

            IMO They are not double omegas… they are horseshoes. You are looking at the mark left from a double kick. (https://www.uspto.gov/)
            and yes my horse story is true.
            If you don’t believe me ask Juan….


            1 F Billy

          • Sherif Billy –

            The marks from a double kick would be upside down, right? The opening would face up, yes?


          • Definitely Double Omegas and way too close to the trove to discuss. Sorry…”would you like to talk about the weather?”

  4. How’s this for some odds and ends. I read, Well here’s Moses one more time after reading Sheriff Billy’s comment about someone making a kajillion dollars. I realized now why Forrest wanted him to look old and tired and leave a short caption. The whole story being that Forrest is Moses and when he looks down from his heavenly Mountain he would see the greed and pursuit of money, ( the root of all evil). In the story he is trying to make a statement to all of us. Maybe go back in your bibles and read it again because some of you are sure not getting the big picture from Forrest’s bible.
    You may think I’m a jerk but justing giving my opinion of what I see. Movie deals, media…. Yikes

    • Hey 1trailblazer –

      Can you tell us where you read the comment by Sherif Billy that you are referring to? It’s not on this page.

      Also I do not believe there is much evidence in the historical record to suggest that Fenn has anything but a tertiary knowlege of the Bible and/or it’s contents therein.


      • Nov 20 closing in. The story confusing and maybe I’m reading it incorrectly. A mention of a bunch of money. But have heard talk of money in other posts. Sorry if I read it wrong (Sheriff Bill) .
        Although I have read before of movie deals and
        making the chase into a publicity story. It is my feelings that not what we’re here for. Maybe you could explain the story Guess I just saw Kajillion dollars and my apologies to certain searchers if I had it wrong. Maybe it’s time to just not look at the site anymore.

      • Information overload. Have a good winter. I need a break from all of this anyway.
        1trailblazer signing out
        Everyone say whew, he’s gone

      • Mr. Lug-

        How hard would it be to figure out if he had put them the correct way? Besides it works into TTOTC as “the end”. (Omega)

        I’m sure you know that a horseshoe is a symbol of good luck. But if you hang the shoe upside down, your luck drains out.

        (Note to Mr. f)
        Mr. f,…, times up……your luck has run out……double time..

        1F Billy

        • Sherif Billy
          Twice now you’ve used the word hang in recent posts to convey different meanings. Just gotta say you using the word hang gets my apprehensive attention. And I believe your kick ass horse story all the way to its karma end.
          Chase well…Stay safe…

    • 1Trailblazer. I think you need to take a break. So what if people are searching because of the possible monitory returns. It’s not our place to judge anyone’s motivation. Each of us is entitled to our own reasons, be it the thrill of the chase, or the thrill of riches. And, Forrest has made clear that the treasure finder is free to do as he or she pleases with the treasure.

  5. I’ve been told the Cheyenne Indians have a version of the Biblical story “Crossing the Red Sea” Tales of the North American Indians”. Maybe we should all read it just for good measure.

  6. Looking for folks who have searched with their teenaged kids for a story about teens searching. If you have searched with your teen and your teen might be interested in being interviewed, please contact me.


  7. lugnuts, was talking about this yesterday: https://ibb.co/cUZm56
    Arriving at how one would use the med wheel is buried in old notes. From memory, I was looking at med wheels a long time ago, dance, stars, Indians, etc… but dead ended with the ideas. Was emailing with Seeker and he mentioned the med wheel, so I said I would check it out again, because it seemed to dead end. This time I had more info.
    I noticed that the poem gave me an ‘Andrew marvel’ (he spells with 2 L’s but since 1 is in the poem, I use 1). And with E.Sloane, along with my ‘alpha numerics’ I found in the poem, it opened things up. To explain may be long winded, so in the end, saw something like this for the med wheel.
    For me, the poem gives “X”, a coordinate. That “X” is not the chest, still have things to do, but now see the coordinates that the poem gives is to where a bell is. “I can keep my secret where”, in the poem gives me seconds of one of the coordinates. So the secret he is talking about is a bell. Remember, “I’ll tell you my secret plan”, from page 137? Put it all together, along with some other info, and you can see why he always has said, ring my bell so I will know. Talking in the future. Goes to figure, he planned for a searcher to find a bell first. It’s at the coordinates of the poem. It’s referenced from two ages in his life, 80 of course the obvious, and 57, when diagnosed with cancer. My alpha numeric values add up to 80 and 57. Use those values for:
    marvel Andrew I get 1621, year he was born, he died at age 57. Sloane Eric yields 1910, who’s who. He died at 80. So, there are a lot of 137’s out there. With the story of bells, dancing with the stars, etc…and some ATF comments, the med wheel now opens up to be a map to a bell. Of course I reserve the right to be an idiot and not know what I’m talking about, but the idea/concept isn’t to bad. I can see it fitting. There is a lot more info but I think you get what I’m hinting at. Not a bad ‘public’ hint, huh?

  8. I found a location (that is now mine and mine alone) in my travels since November 24 2016 to now. With our global warming issues, end of November is not out of the question for a visit this year. No time of year will be impenetrable soon.

    Isn’t that an odd end? For the treasure to be found in dead of winter, I mean.

    I wonder if FF thought of global warming as he thought of everything so many years ago.

    • In sure you mean a location that several searchers in the past have been within a few hundred feet of.

      • You know, honestly, I’m not convinced any other searchers have been anywhere near the location that is now mine and mine alone. Cowboys and animals, but no Fenn chase searchers.

    • He’s not omniscient – whatever he thinks, ff cannot possibly have thought of everything.

  9. I think it may have been John Colter who said “As I have gone alone in there” but not entirely sure. He was quite a man though.

  10. I’ve seem some very astute searchers he. Dal doesn’t even need mentioning since he is grand poobah of searches. I like Montana. I’m not sure, but I think Lisa is into Montana. Sanday, not sure where you are. Pdenver should be on any team that would have her. JDA is brilliant. Altenash makes great sense. Seeker,Lugnuts Hobbit, Kit Utah and Jonsey make plenty of sense They bring ideas through different lenses. Some of them are even closer to the indulgence than others but most contribute something Feel free to drop a name, even mine. Together we may figure it out.

    • Together we may figure it out, as long as you are all in Montana. 🙂 Vigilante code, 3777. Worn on the sleeve of all Montana state troopers. Maybe there is your “X”.

    • I’m with you Bob, just not in Montana.
      Unfortunately trust is in short supply, so it’s not likely you’ll be able to get any teams together.
      Too bad to, because I agree that putting minds together might just find this thing!

      • Yep eaglesbound…..undeniable trust within a team is definitely a critical component to have.

        If people can be willing to accept other possibilities and then through unity, decide upon those that can be viable and searched as a team, this slowly whittling away the unworkable possibles for viable tries.

        Teamwork will be how the is solved and used by individuals who have the willingness to share the wealth. Greed hinders the mind. Greed hinders clear thoughts.

        Greed leads to the Dark Side.


  11. Hey there Dal,
    I have a great idea, and maybe you have already done this.
    Remember the game show “What’s my line”. At the next Fenneborree let’s set up a line up (Sheriff Billie and deputies can help) everyone has a card with there handle on it and spectators guess who’s who based on comments on this blog.
    I would definetly be there to shake some hands, or not…lol. I will have to shave the hair off my face so everyone can see my devilish smile.
    Over thinking as usual

    • itrailblister –

      Many of us have our pictures here.

      Also I have not commented on your Eddy Diag.
      This is classic. Classic in the sense that your solve runs to far afield.
      Even if you have the correct starting location, and you might, you are driving WAY past all the other clues imo.


      • Lug was that comment for me Eddy. Dia. Not sure what your talking about. I would love to say something about my solve but everyone would say. “Why didn’t I think of that. IMO of course. I’m just a dumb construction worker. Sorry not insulting construction workers, but you know the bunch. Of course I did one of those tests on what your occupation should be at age 17. It said I should be a school teacher. Go figure of course I didn’t listen and been a dumb construction worker ever since. And boy is my body tired.

        • Right that was Charlie!

          I am confusing 2 people I don’t normally converse with.
          Anywho, maybe Charlie will read that commnet.

          • No problem lug, never met a musician I didn’t like. Other then the sound of silence, music is second. Poetry at it’s best. If only the world would listen to what the words have to say. For 50 years I’ve listened to the poetry but it seems they just can’t listen to the words of “PEACE”.

          • Hopefully they don’t blow us up before we get a chance to get what we need out of those great Forrest Fenn books. There are clues or hints IMO in both TTOTC and Once Upon Awhile. I think I got them figured out but then so does a bunch more. Only time will tell.
            Peace and love to all
            But the damn leaders just won’t let it be that way.

          • it’s outside of the poem, lug. It’s a map to a bell. Just so happens I believe a bell is on the path to the chest. Noooo, this is not a solve. It points to “x” in a mile general circle. Just so happens that the coordinates the poem gives falls in this circle. I said it was a hint. Or hints, that may help solve a clue. Com’ on lug. You questioned that nobody has ever given a public hint worth anything (paraphrasing), while this can be reference to: me in the middle, the number 24, draw a tangent, dancing with the stars, bells, Bighorn ring any bells?, his rainbow, etc…The path goes no where near the place. The clues, no where near the place. Why would he tell us about the bells soooo much, and not incorporate it into the chase? The wheel is a hint, actually several, and it has a lot of support info to go with it. It does narrow down the search location. (Montana or Wyoming).
            This may not actually be part of the chase but it’s own chase. To find a bell and that’s it. I may well be wrong that a bell is on the path to the chest, but with all the ATF comments, along with book stories, this seems like as good of a thing as any to it being a map to a or some bells.

    • Also I tried to figure out how to put a picture of my best friend ( my dog) on the blog but couldn’t figure it out. Told ya dumb un tech savvy construction worker. But I’m still proud of me, myself and I.

  12. Well I guess it’s time to hang up the snow shoes–And put the weasel skin away till we see if Dave has the trove in his possession???

    • No way. To many vague clue solves. He trying to get our blood pressure up. Hoping we’ll all drop dead of a heart attack.

        • Maybe he’ll find a square mark in the dirt and swear it’s gotta be a scam lol
          I hope you got it Dave
          I’ll be jealous as all get up

  13. I just want to repeat a message I left earlier:
    If anyone has searched with their teen kids and would not mind sharing some of that experience…
    There is a woman who is writing a story about teen searchers and would like to interview you and your teen…
    If this interests you please drop me a note and I will put you in touch with the writer.

  14. Anyone knows when was the last time that Forrest affirmed that the treasure chest still out there? a date?

  15. Dal where did your story of the Grayling creek go, I don’t see it or Cynthia’s in the blogs.
    In particular I think you mentioned something about her “brass sniffing” dog. It hit a nerve in the fact that a while back I told my wife that if you could train a dog to sniff out brass (or gold) you would have much better chance of finding Indulgence. LOL I don’t know if it is possible but if there are any dog trainers out there, here is your chance. You have all winter to get them ready! Good luck and all stay safe this winter.

    Also did any body else pick up on the hiding place being “secreted in a dark and wild place” in the forward of OUAW? I wonder if it is based on knowlege or a guess?

  16. I have a picture of a double omega I came across & would like to share it, just a different example. I’m not sure how, help please.

  17. Here’s a question for you guys;

    In the U.K the chances of winning the national lottery are 1 in 25 million to get 6 numbers out of 6

    What do you think the odds are off figuring out the nine clues within the poem?

    I’m just curious

    Ronnie the Scot

      • Charlie
        GREAT answer and context. Thank you.

        Ronnie mcclean
        I don’t often do a BOTG search, but when I do, it’s always alone and with the confidence of 1-out-of-1 odds. Afterwards, always had zero confidence and zero odds.

        IMO, you might as well ask everyone how deep is a hole.

        Chase well…Stay safe…

          • They launched him to Mars a couple years ago. New guy isn’t quite as “interesting”. Slightly modified quote for TMIMITW: “I don’t always drink beer, but when I do, I prefer … to drink a *load of it.”

          • Lisa,
            More catching-up: Three Forks, MT
            I’m drawn to this area by the poem and much more. I’d particularly like to put an X somewhere in the area of nearby Madison Buffalo Jump State Park. To do that, think I better first get the first clue and see where it leads me rather than the other way around. That is, to get from my current confound state I need to start at the beginning (or is it the end) and go to my future profound state!
            Chase well…Stay safe…

          • “I don’t always leave my stuff in the woods, but when I do it’s a treasure chest worth millons.” I like this game!

    • Ronnie: odds of anyone (collectively), or odds of one searcher? And on a single trip or over a lifetime?

    • Ronnie,
      The chances of the lottery is guessing numbers, nothing more. Mathematically, it’s easy to figure out the stats of possibilities.
      The chase gives us what we should need. And can’t be calculated on possibilities or odds… That’s like saying… To win the lottery you have to pick one number between 1 and 5, then 6 to 10, and then 11 to 15, skip all numbers in the 20’s, and then 30 to 35, then 45 to 50 etc… what would be the odds then if we knew which numbers to work with? 1 to one million or 250,000 to 1? {someone else can to that math if they want}

      The thing about the chase IMO, it’s not a process of elimination of places it could be… but reading the poem the way fenn intended. Very little is discussed about ‘how to read’ the poem. { and most solves are exactly the same.. just names of places change }.
      “I’m not flippant about this. It’s not something somebody is going to be able to do on spring break or a Sunday afternoon picnic. I’m looking a hundred years down the road, maybe a thousand years down the road. People don’t understand that.”

      Why the heck not? It sure seems that easy, right? Just find this clue and that clue and walk right there to the chest… What “don’t we understand”? In a Q&A fenn also stated, searchers “don’t see it the way I do”… what is it we’re not seeing?
      YET even with solving the first two clues and being on site, those magical lottery numbers are alluding all… and walking right by all the other numbers, umm I mean clues.

      “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” f

      What location? Does anyone really know that answer…
      Is the location a clue, clues or something else.

      Fenn also said, marry the clues to “a” place on the map. Is that each clue to a place or all the clues at a place?

      He as said; look at maps as if putting and X on it. Is that X the starting point? The Chest? The first clue only? All the clues?

      While it’s fun to ask these “curious” questions like yours.
      I’d rather attempt to answer the above questions and eliminate my lottery chances of winning.

      • Seeker, well said…
        The “x” quote sounds interesting.
        Do you know the exact quote?

      • Seeker: just pick the most obvious, big picture, warm waters in the entire United States. You are then more than half way there, IMO.

        • Ha! Zap… Most Obvious? LOL… that worked well for those several and still more going to the site/location to look for the obvious, right?
          When you can logically tell me how; many searchers deciphered the first two clues and didn’t know, and walked by all the rest and didn’t know, and the chest and didn’t know… tell me what I’m and everyone else is “obviously” missing.

          No offense, but you just sounded like a few other searchers who loved to say… pick a solve, pick a wwh, pick a hoB, pick a blaze, and just run with it, and stop over thinking things.

          It’s funny you say this… like I haven’t posted a couple theories along that line of thinking…

          Have you ever thought that the one and only wwwh might not be an obvious Big Picture size, but an actual wallet size you might want to cherish?

          To be honest Zap, I chose to reply to Ronnie’s post the way I did, for those who are sitting back and just reading the same old same old… hoping we get others involved with different thoughts and not just hearing the same; ‘in my solve, this is the way it is…I’m just waiting for the next season of searching to go get the chest’

        • zaphod73491,
          Have you ever consider a notion that Mr Fenn’s statement ‘where warm waters halt’ might not refer to ‘warm waters’ (temperature wise)?
          If this is the case, then taking into account all the hot/warm springs in the Rockies will not get you an inch closer to the solution.

        • Seeker — somehow I missed your reply from several days ago.

          “Ha! Zap… Most Obvious? LOL…”

          Yes. It’s patently obvious, Seeker. Everyone here knows the answer. YOU know the answer. I’m not the first to make this claim. It’s just that almost no one knows what to ~do~ with it. It’s like saying WWWH is the Continental Divide (it isn’t, IMO) — it’s not an actionable starting point.

          “No offense, but you just sounded like a few other searchers who loved to say… pick a solve, pick a wwh, pick a hoB, pick a blaze, and just run with it, and stop over thinking things.”

          There’s no picking, Seeker. Anyone who just “picks” some random WWWH they like is automatically wrong in my opinion. That’s not looking at the big picture. What no one seems willing to consider is that the WWWH line of the poem is NOT standalone (again in my opinion). You need more information — information that is found in the poem, just not on that poem line.

          • Zap

            I don’t there is an obvious big picture WWH. I don’t know what you’re talking about. Maybe warm waters means something different to different people including me and you and Seeker.


          • Hi Lug.

            Now you know why I believe “the edge of civilization” is the beginning point.

            But where? Having there be so many.

            The book, the poem, and a good map is all you need.

            FYI – where in the book is WY and CO mentioned?

            How often is MT or NM mentioned?

            The book, the poem and a good map tells us where to go.

            IMO – The starting point is very vague. The hoB is very vague. The key word is very vague. This is why most people can’t seem to grasp what they are. Those individuals are not thinking outside the box, nor do they seem to take the steps into a metaphysical world of imagination.

            Good luck!

      • Seeker;

        Fenn also said, marry the clues to “a” place on the map. Is that each clue to a place or all the clues at a place?

        Forrest seemed to answer you – *Your destination (A Place) is small, but its location (or place) is huge (Posted Feb. 19th, 2016)

        To me, this sounds like the “Location” (that includes all of the clues) is huge, but that the final “Location” (place) of Indulgence will be small.

        So, what (and where) is this huge location? YNP?
        The state of Wyoming, or Montana, Colorado or New Mexico? A National Forest? A mountain range within the Rockies? Something within the poem has to help us isolate this “Huge” location, and then to look within that “Huge” location for a “small” area that is the temporary resting place for Indulgence. For me, the answer lies in stanza #6. Others will disagree.

        Sounds pretty daunting to me. JDA

        • Or on the flip side… the location is small but it’s importance … high regards and respect is… huge. What you’re attempting to do is use huge only in land mass.
          We may not know what “huge” actually means until the end of the solve… and that’s my point as well. Folks want that to be a “clue” to solving the poem, but it might be nothing more than a confirmation of a full solve completed.
          With out both thoughts of possibilities a searcher runs with only one option… example; Yep I’m right that NM is the place or WY or CO or MT. or YSP or this National Forest etc.
          So sure, go ahead and look into huge as “holding” the clues… that is the start of a bias solve in my book, and dismissing anything else huge could relate to. It should take but a few years and 20 plus BOTG searches to think… hmmm, maybe huge is something else.

          • Seeker;

            You frequently refer to time as a part of the solution. Add to my list of “Huge” things – Time. eons and eons of time. Time going back all of the way to the creation of Mother Earth – 4 Billion years ago. Time, as when the world began to cool, and the latest (of several) ice ages began 1.8 million years ago, up until about 11,700 years ago – The Time when man first appeared on the North American continent 9,000 to 10,000 years ago.
            * * * a HUGE expanse of TIME! JDA

          • I think Time is important to be cognizant about . Though perhaps not in all the variables it can be applied to but certainly within the poem. I think Time is a huge element to be crucially aware of all things FF says and writes. IMO .

            Scrapbook 185:

            “He’s 2 ½ months old so that makes me more than 4,500 weeks his senior.”

            Purposeful time calculation is what I see. A bit of a nod to “time”. No? IMO.

          • Hi Seeker.

            Being in “Difficulty-land” can be an obstacle in itself.

            Let’s play with the word “Huge” for a moment…..

            – big, large, enormous, monumental, glorious, wonderful, gigantic, gargantuan, wonderous, etc, etc, etc……we can go on and on if we choose.

            But like in all of Fennology, there is a double meaning to the words he states. We think that it means one thing, he probably means another or something entirely different.

            I like your thinking that “huge” can or may have a different meaning.

            I can apply this to my micro-macro thinking as well. IMO – my destination is actually a small location within a larger location within even a larger location, within even a larger location, within even a larger location.

            Let me try to explain without revealing my search area.

            We have the poem and FF has stated that “your destination is small, but your search area is large.” Okay…maybe not “exact words”, but you get my point.

            Let’s start at the beginning, the chest lies within Four statea. He also stated that he hid it “in the RMs north of SF”.

            We now have REDUCED the area further down to just the RMs – much further down from the “four states” the RMs reside in we started with.

            Stay with me…..

            Now…while looking at a map or groups of maps, we again reduce our search area even further, by looking to match clues from the poem to places on the map(s)…another reduction in thought, huh?

            Don’t stop yet, as we can reduce more.

            One different look – is that the map In the book is shaded with different colors And those colors are shaded to represent the different types of lands he may have used. FF wants us to learn of these lands, otherwise he wouldn’t have mentioned them by type.

            For legal reasons FF doesn’t want the finder to tackle legal issues after the find, so he said – (paraphrased- “the finder will have worries behind them”. This shows that he planned the “find” to be worry free of legal issues.

            Anyhow….not all the shaded lands are viable hiding lications, because of those legal issues. Thus, one can FURTHER REDUCE the search locations by eliminating those lands.

            BTW – do you remember the picture of what looks like “FF’s shadow standing over a body of water”….peculiar as it sounds, it seems that “shadow” shows up in another picture….but that one is now…a combination of the shadow and the map….with his shadow (“shaded area”) deliberately placed over the map.


            I envision it to represent FF telling us “to go into the RMs….hiking with a stick…..for the treasure I hid.”

            Okay…before you ask. I have no idea where this pic originated from, or who put it together, or if it is even viable to the hunt, or if it is just another rabbit hole. But if you do use this, you could also, technically, REDUCE, the search area even further.

            You see, one could actually REDUCE this even further, by using his “shadow” to not only remove those types of regions that would have legal problems for the finder, but also help one home in on a specific region. His shadow of noticed, only resides over “part of the original map”, thus further eliminating additional regions to search.

            To be honest with you…..my search area is on BLM land and has always been, because of the ease of legal issues I would have if I were to find the chest.

            My search area also – in parallel – is not only on the original map from the book and is on BLM land, but also still within the “FFshadow” area, if I were to include and reference that odd picture.

            BTW – his shadow is large, but not really, as it only covers a portion of the poem’s map. Reduced again.

            Macro to micro look is used throughout.

            In a past post, I even explained what features one needs to look for within the poem is n a map – from a macro view.

            Did that help in anyway?

            As you can see…I still meet the criteria you put forth……as well as, clears the path of other “certain” obstacles……and possibly even more.

            Good luck sir.

      • Seeker,

        I’ve decided to climb to the top of mount Everest with a pair of binoculars and look for that damn chest.

        I reckon my chances will improve greatly.

        Ronnie the Scot

        • Ronnie,
          Try a little closer to the search area… @ approx 29,000 feet { MT Everest } your distance to the curve of the Earth is only about 280 miles. You would need very good binoculars to find the chest from there… LEO {low Earth orbit }would be a better place to start @ 100 miles and above.
          Maybe just try GE?

          • Ronnie the Scot – And how come when you used that d-word in your post, it wasn’t moderated and changed to darn chest???

            Life just isn’t fair….

          • Lisa,

            Sorry if I offended you or anyone else with that word.

            I just got carried away as I’m sure most searchers do.

            Never mind time to get back to reality I suppose.

            We all live in hope?

            Ronnie the Scot

          • Ronnie the Scot – I wasn’t at all offended. I had just quoted Rhett Butler in my conversation with OS too and had my comment motivated and had to take the n off the end of that d-word.

            So Forrest could have flown a modern high altitude jet over Everest to begin it WWWH, and taken it in the canyon, from Camp 4 to Basecamp, etc., Super Fast, across the ocean to YNP, where he put in below the home of Brown bears at West Yellowstome Airport. I hope they’ve made some headway about the sonic boom problem with those Jets….

          • Lisa,

            Glad to hear that you weren’t offended.

            I reckon Forrest possibly hid the T.C thirty miles from my house?four days ago some guy found eight gold coins with a metal detector.

            Yes that’s what I think Forrest is pulling the wool over your eyes and has hidden the T.C in Scotland.

            Then he flew his jet over the top of mount Everest.

            I just have to find WWWH

            Ronnie the Scot

          • Lisa – are you a sale rep for Orgain??

            welcome back Ronnie – i strongly suspect that the only reason you weren’t moderated for your highly risqué behaviour above, is because HoD admin are well aware of the fact that is was actually the Scots who invented the world

          • Ronnie the Scot – Always check on the facts posted by Curious Hobitses:

            Celtic tribes, who had caused Britons to seek help in the first place, continued to inhabit the northern part of the territory. Fierce as they were, they remained independent during this time frame.

            The Picts (Rome’s old nemesis) and the Scots (originally from Ireland) were the two main northern tribes. They ultimately united under one king (Kenneth MacAlpin) to form Scotland (Kingdom of Alba) in 843, although the islands and highlands were not part of that early country. (William Shakespeare, parenthetically, later wrote about a real king of Scotland at the end of those Dark Ages. He called him Macbeth.)

          • Ronnie – i’m pretty certain that even the ancient Sumerians were directly descended from the Scots tbh

            i mean, didn’t William Wallace help build the library of Ashurbanipal or something?
            (fact!! 🙂 )

          • curious hobbit – I am pretty sure it was this guy, who was the illustrious pre-Sumerian ancestor:


            The latest translation of The Epic of Gilgamesh is excellent by the way, Ronnie. I think that’s where the Picts in the Scottish Highlands came from.

            And I read about the tablets found in Nineveh in a great book, called Full Moon Over Noah’s Ark. The author couldn’t get to that area because of ongoing battles there. It is sad how much history is probably being destroyed in that area because of them.

            You are pretty impressive for a Hobbit. But so was Bilbo Baggins…

          • curious hobbit – And Braveheart is my favorite movie, but my best friend is a member of the Maclean Clan. They changed the spelling of his last name as well at Ellis Island, Ronnie. Did you catch the part in my post about the Scots coming from Ireland? So when Stephen says, “It’s my Island!”, when offering his help to William Wallace in Scotland, that may have been a veiled reference to that fact:


          • Lisa – i can’t help but admit that you’re a very diligent and enthusiastic researcher, but if what you say is true then answer me this:

            1) when Stephen said “my island” how do you know he wasn’t referring to Gaul?

            2) if Utnapishtim was given immortality, how come he didn’t run for president at the last elections?

            3) and if he was tasked with re-establishing the human species, then why did he chose to park his boat in the middle of a known war-zone?

            4) where the heck can i get me some of that Orgain Coffee + Protein too?

          • curious hobbit – And Stephen and William Wallace both had the painted blue faces of the Warrior Celts in a waiter scene of that video I posted from Braveheart. So Gaul was certainly not out of the question. All of this was Boudica’s fault, you know. Well, and mine. Since my ancestor was Julius Caesar….

            Crossing the Rubicon…

            Worth the cold…

          • curious hobbit – I can’t SEE you,…but neither can Smaug the dragon, who is sleeping on the bronze chest, so that’s good. Gollum! Get away from that fish! That’s an endangered Westslope Cutthroat trout. Go after a Rainbow trout instead. No, I have not SEEN the curious hobbit….

            But I’ll bet he is headed to the Misty Mountain, WWWH, to figure out a way to find the blaze….


        • BW,

          When did this earthquake take place?

          I was on top of mount Everest last week and everything was fine.

          Ronnie the scot

      • Hi Seeker.

        I’ve done all of what you have stated above, except one thing…..put the ‘X’ on the map.

        This Will be my target project for this upcoming winter.

        Good luck to you sir and be safe.

        Be the chest!

    • IF you know what the 9 clues are in the Poem, Ronnie, the chances of correctly figuring them out in the Rockies are 50/50 – you either got the chest, or you don’t got it.


    • Ronnie – interpreting the question about odds differently: one who correctly deciphers the key parts of the poem has approximately (but not exactly) 1 in 1 million chance of their solution being “coincidence” – this is also part of the reason they can go confidently to the spot. IMO

      Now, back to drinking my Dos XX.

  18. Ok, I am going to bring it up there again and throw it out there for discussion.
    I can sing the Fenn Poem to
    “O My Darling Clementine”.
    This always makes me think of the those lyrics
    And some words….
    “In a cavern, in a canyon”

    “Dwelt a miner, 49er”

    Later Clementine drowns in briny water that sounds like “salty” water to me.

  19. To all you searchers out there enjoy your Thanksgiving, turkeys. Oops, remove the comma, I mean enjoy your Thanksgiving turkeys. God bless all of you great people and I say that very sincerely!

  20. Begin it where warm gravy pours
    And eat that with cranberry sauce,
    Not much, but too much for one course
    And don’t forget the salad tossed.

    From there you eat far more than leeks
    In fact you’ll eat a turkey thigh
    You wI’ll feel full enough for weeks
    Especially after pumpkin pie

    If you’ve been filled and…

    Sorry. Never mentally recite the poem while,eating.

    • ..OR when ya drinking homemade brandy either, fyi Sparrow

      “as i have (gulp) gone alones there (gulp)
      und treasuress bald (gulp)
      i can’t kept secrets etc (glug glug)
      hints about some’it new or.. (gulp)

      bagginses it were (gulp glug) some-sorta watery stops
      not so far but..is that a pink spottyed elephantz?

      ( ..see what i mean? 🙂 )

      • Happy TG Jeannie 🙂

        btw, did you hear that we’re all invited to celebrations with Lou Lee next year? ..lotsa free brandy apparently

        ( ..don’t worry tho – it’ll be fun!! 🙂 )

        • Hey Bert, I thought Hobbitses only celebrated Anzac Day and Yule and such.
          Do you even have turkeys in New Zealand?
          I suppose if you wanted to be a Pilgrim in a foreign land you could roast a pelican or something. 🙂

        • as-it-so-happens Theo, we have plenty o’ turkeys down here in Aotearoa
          i mean.. i should know – i AM one!! 🙂

          (btw, if you be brave nuf to catch (and roast) a grumpy adult pelican, or any other Aussie (human) counterpart for that matter.. then i’ll def bring the free brandy and the GoPro 😛 )

        • We had a great turkey dinner while sitting on a dock in Morro Bay, afterwards watched surfers until the sun went down, very thankful! I hope Lou Lee is expecting a crowd next year, of course Spallies, too!

          • I tell you what, if I make it to fennboree I will bring plenty of bottles. Made with Idaho Vodka! My apricots and pears.

          • Lou Lee
            I also don’t yet know if I’ll make it to what would be my first fennboree. I sure would like to drive down and partake. I was taught to be helpful and share, so if we both make it there, I’ll sure help you trudge them bottles around for a share or two or …better bring plenty and hope to see you there.
            Chase well…Stay safe…

        • wow, Morro Bay looks like a great area to celebrate – i drove that coast in the 90’s in ’78 Ford V8 Eco-line van (SF-LA-SD-Mexico-NY & lotsa-in-between) ..but that coastline was my fav by far 🙂

          well.. ok i s’pose – but if you insist on inviting Spallies, then i’m def bringing a meringue pie and a tuning fork!! 🙁


      • Hello, Lugnutz.

        My family has leeks on Thanksgiving…especially the older family members.

        Some of the younger folks think they ruin the dinner by tainting the flavor of all the food.

        Doesn’t have to be that way.


        • JC1117 –

          Where are the leeks coming from?

          I would really like to get to the bottom of this.


  21. I recall a quote from FF where he said something to the effect that he doesn’t care about the meaning of a word as long as it rhymes. I searched in vain trying to find it with no luck. Anyone else remember? Maybe I’m imagining it. Thanks!


    I see it every day here at work—someone making the coffee. They pour out the old swill, put a little hot water in the now empty pot, swish it around, and dump it out. As they fill the pot with fresh water there is inevitably a comment about how the bottom of the pot never gets clean from the swishing. They put in a new filter, add a pre-packaged amount of ground coffee, then attempt to pour the water in the coffee machine and replace the now empty pot before brewed coffee starts dripping out.




    When it’s my turn at bat, I do pretty much the same process, except after the swishing I wipe the bottom of the OUTSIDE of the pot with a moist paper towel to clear away those “impossible stains.”

    Sometimes you have to “Think outside the coffee pot” my fellow searchers.

  23. There are some places in the poem where one has to think outside of the box and still remain in the confines of the poem.

    Examples: wwwh, the blaze, no paddle, water high and in the wood. I truly believe I found each one of those examples as they all fit easily to the poem. Nothing in my solve is forced or taken out of context or outside of the poem. I married all of the clues easily to create the map, which easily fits the poem.

    I didn’t hang onto every word F said, however just some that relates to the poem. The book, TTOTC gave me some things as a confirmation that I was thinking in relation to my solve. I never went off on what I call a wild tangents, I listened and reasoned with the poem.

    Now I’m trying very hard to dispute my solve and keep an open mind. Numbers, coordinates and ciphers, etc I believe is not relative to the poem and I see no indications that they should be used. I don’t believe Forrest intended at all to use those methods.

    Studying the poem, a good map, a little knowledge and some imagination to think outside of the box is needed, and remain within the boundary of the poem IMO goes a long way in solving the poem.

    And you can bet that I will put botg this coming spring. Until that time I wish all of you the best off luck in your solves, I mean that sincerely and you never know who may beat me in the Chase.

    I would hate to think I might have to eat crow, metaphorically speaking

    • CharlieM – Here’s to a long winter season (Sips some coffee).

      Ken-Thanks for the sales pitch on the Cuisinart (Sips some coffee)—we do have a Keurig in another part of the building, but I guess I like my swill and ain’t afraid to run the pot through the dishwasher (takes like 45 seconds to clean, rinse, and sanitize—another “secret” my co-workers don’t get).

      Covert One – nice cup of Joe there (Chews on some coffee that was made hours ago)—maybe you can link photos of your battle plan for next season… 🙂

      In all seriousness, what seems obvious to some (cleaning the bottom of the coffee pot to get rid of the stain from the coffee that dripped on the heating plate before the pot was slammed home) is seemingly a completely foreign concept to some others.

      Here’s to grinding some of the whole beans dropped around here down to a nice blend by winter’s end.

      With all of this talk about coffee, I just had an idea….What if WWWH is in FF’s coffee cup? 🙂

  24. If I come to a place, where there’s too many pieces of candy to sort out. I move off a ways, and see if there’s another piece of candy, If there is, I leave. Candy lures, are fish bait.

  25. Hello Everyone,

    I have a simple question for anyone who may wish to respond. I appreciate any and all comments about this subject:

    I have seen a number of references to elephants on searches, and on a website blog or 2, and I wanted to know if any of you can tell me why elephants may be important, or not?

    Thanks for any information in advance!


  26. Franklin—
    In one story Forrest wrote he States that he felt like “a crippled ant in an elephant parade”.

    But that’s the only reference to elephants that comes to mind. Except for Mammoths and Mastodons mentioned in archaeological stories.

    • Thanks for the reply Sparrow. I did find that story in Scrapbook 168. I may just be looking at a rabbit hole, not sure. Is there any reference you know of to a “one eared elephant”?

    • Lisa,

      Brave Heart and Rob Roy are two of my top favourite films.

      My mum and dad where born in Ireland, I was born in Scotland.

      My dad was constantly telling me that Ireland was his island.

      So I don’t really know who’s island Ireland really belongs to, as everybody that I know that lives in Ireland seems to think that Ireland is there island.

      This could be a long debate?

      There should maybe be a blog set up to find out who’s Irelands island belongs too.

      You never know Lisa if you’ve got irish connections then Ireland’s island may belong to you?

      Some of the searchers have mentioned about working together as a group, I’ve already got my team of searchers.

      They are;

      James Purple Heather
      Harris Tweed
      Haggis Mcbagpipes
      Scot Porridge Oats
      Reverend I M Jolly

      Ronnie the Scot

  27. Franklin–
    No— not that I recall. It’s possible but doesn’t ring any bells. A one-eared elephant would be a new one though– hadn’t heard that one before.

  28. PDenver, you are missed.

    Why do you think SB about The Price of Freedom is last story in last book?

    • Hello Twingem. I’m not sure if Mr. Fenn chose this chapter to be the last or his team who worked with him. It may tie in to something I believe was said by Mr. Fenn about reading the chapter, “My War For Me,” in his “The Thrill of the Chase” book, but I’m not sure yet. I’ve read the new book only once at this time.

  29. Lisa,

    T.C is definitely not hidden at Rosslyn Chapel, I’ve already looked.

    As for eating haggis, it is one of my favorites.

    If any of you guy’s want to try it I highly recommend it with a fried egg on a roll (DELICIOUS)

    But a word of warning don’t let Haggis Mcbagpipes know .


    Ronnie the Scot

  30. Jeannie,

    I think Haggis Mcbagpipes might just get eaten up before the film finished?

    Ronnie the Scot

  31. Jeannie,

    The condition is that you’ve got to eat a haggis first before you get to see the film.

    Ronnie the Scot

    • Well, ya see, Ronnie, I made a promise to myself, a long time ago, to never eat another mackerel and in my mind I think haggis probably tastes worse than that so I’m not sure I could do it. But you’re scaring me about this haggis baggis thing! Is it bad luck? If so, than I might break my promise and taste it. I would hate to miss the movie!

  32. Jeannie,

    I cannot force you to eat the haggis, however there’s a rumour going about Scotland that one of the two mystery objects that are in the T.C is a haggis.

    The second object in the T.C is a note saying that the finder of the chest has to eat the haggis before they can claim the treasure.

    I would suggest that you start getting in to practice by eating a small piece everyday and build up on your intake.

    You never know Jeannie you may just be the one to find the T.C

    Ronnie the Scot

      • Jeannie,

        The only problem is that you have to catch one first?

        They are fierce little creatures with three legs, but boy can they move, it might be wise to take a bear with you for protection.

        Good luck on your quest.

        Ronnie the Scot

        Make sure to wear a pair of boots cos they like to snap at your heels.

  33. I found a quote that fit our theme:

    “This landscape is animate: it moves, transposes, builds, proceeds, shifts, always going on, never coming back, and one can only retain it in vignettes, impressions caught in a flash, flipped through in succession, leaving a richness of images imprinted on a sunburned retina.”
    ― Ann Zwinger, Downcanyon

    She was talking about the Colorado river in the Grand Canyon. But the words fit my current search area.

  34. The mayor of Santa Fe, New Mexico, on 8-22-2017:

    “Four score and seven years ago Lillie Fenn brought forth to this nation a new baby, conceived in Texas, and dedicated to the proposition that one day one of us would become very rich…”

  35. Got my copy of Forrest 3rd Memoir today, (finally)! What a beautiful book! The smell of hot off the press, not the same as a brand new sedan but still….lol! Where’s the discussion topic/header for this new book? Seems ‘key word’ is getting more mileage than LGFRI did…..lol, imo! Old Wharf Rat Turning 60 this Saturday, hard to believe, long strange trip it’s been….!

    • Happy Birthday Cholly!!! Congrats on finally getting your book…. I hope you have a great day on Saturday…… until next time… see ya my friend

      • Happy Birthday Cholly!!! I’m so glad you finally got your book!!! Since I don’t have mine yet Dal said he was going to lend me his!!! lol JK Dal…

        • Yes! True, some will be hunted and given to tribes. They also cull the wolves too. They are so protected there, they need to control the population’s,
          Still makes me sad. On my trips into Yellowstone, I see these amazing beasts and their young. I feel so much Love for them.

        • Lou Lee – it’s shameful that no option to re-locate these intelligent animals has been considered for public debate – must be the usual “budget” thing, unfortunately 🙁

          “It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world, and moral courage so rare.” – Mark Twain

          (GO the bison!! 🙂 🙂 )

          • Yes it’s very controversial. There are also hidden agendas by the government in all of this. The tribes have thier own opinions. I tend to believe our tribes more than the government.
            Too bring this back home here on the chase. One of my solves involves these Amazing gentle giants.

          • My response was to you Mr. HOBIT!
            I really like you. I still am wondering about your comment about smelling salts? Who are you? Someone famous? Hehe…..Have a great evening. Mysterious one.

          • Letting the diseased animals live would mean the death, in time, of all Bison, Elk, Deer and cattle.

          • Lugs – if you obviously possess such statistical soap-box conviction, you might be morally brave enough to go “cull” those poor beasts in person (?)

            ( ..nope – didn’t think so 🙁 )

          • Lou Lee – if Focused is an accurate measure of moral man, then i can only conclude that your faith, loyalty and love for your elders is deservedly wise and rightfully earned

            ( ..and no, i’m not famous.. not on this planet, thankfully 😉 )

            ( ..and don’t worry ’bout the ‘smelling salts” btw – it’s complicated 🙁 )

  36. Since my email is posted on this blog I get never ending requests from new folks about where Forrest said this…or that…as if I might have an encyclopedic memory of everything Forrest has said in the past seven years…
    But I don’t have that kind of memory…

    What was I talking about again?

    So rather than bug me or others on the blog for the location or accuracy of quotes… there are two wonderful tools for looking up Forrest quotes. I recommend that you take a look at them..

    One is JCM’s recently updated version of Chasing Words of Forrest Fenn..
    It can be found here:

    The other is the on-line search index hosted at:

    I have found that each resource contains information the other does not. I appreciate them both for different reasons..

    I appreciate having a resource on my computer that I can use no matter where I am…connected to the internet or not…and JCM’s Chasing Words fills that bill because it’s a document that you download directly to your computer. It’s there when you need it.

    On the other hand Tarryscant is free and has the most sought after quotes from Forrest in its database…

    Think about using them so you can become your own expert at Forrest quotes…and I can get back to my dinner salad…

    By the way… did Forrest ever say that Indulgence is hidden in New Mexico?

    • Dal – is it still possibly ok to frequently contact you about any Sasquatch sightings etc, like you secretly asked, or..

      (but if ya feeling eternally guilty ’bout booting your recent guests en-masse.. i could hopefully send my (unequivicable proof) vid another time.. ?

      • I have top secret information Mr.Hobit, ABOUT A BIG Foot family in southern Oregon. This wonderful family is providing food for their young. It’s hard being a big foot in the woods these days. They have to hide extra hard now with all the searchers.
        Thanks so much Mr. Hobit for your kind remarks above.

      • ran,

        Fenn must have told Cynthia it is hidden in Montana. She swore, for years, that she would never search anywhere but New Mexico; that it could be no where else.

        Now, see where she is searching…….! hmmmm….


    • Just send them Loco’s email, he knows everything about the chase. We wouldn’t know what the first clue was if it wasn’t for him.

      I’m sure he wouldn’t mind. 🙂

      • ROTFLMAO!!

        Touche’, old fren

        (They know you are prevaricating. If I knew everything, we’d be at Dal’s….having a cold one and laughing about how dumb we were, for so long!!) 🙂

        Gonna be a looooong winter, no? 🙂

    • i couldn’t agree more Goofy – so we’re all agreed then, that all non-specific random emails/promo stuff/spam/walmart ads/list goes on forever etc.. should be directly diverted to loco, for cunning scrutiny and wise analysis, imho – just in case

      …it’s absolutely imperative guys, so… be generous!! 🙂

    • Dal,

      I went to JCM’s website but there’s no mention of them being searchable and ther’s no email address to ask. Would you mind shedding some light on that please?

      Thanks….. Pinatubocharlie

      • I’m trying to find out Pina…
        It looks like that link is just for updates for folks who previously bought the doc…updates are free if you already purchased the doc…
        But what I want is the place where folks can outright purchase the doc for the first time…

        I wrote him a note and will get back when I hear more…

      • Pinatubocharlie – the documents are in pdf format and are searchable… just hit control-f for the search (find) box and type what you are looking for and you get a list of every instance where your search term appears.

        Here is the link to the products page.


        My collection is the best if you simply want the quotes and comments specifically about finding the chest. You can either read everything in chronological order, or get them sorted into relevant topics. Everything is right there… including many things people don’t know that they don’t know have been said (and how does one search for those things? ).

        Tarryscant.com is great if you want whole articles and transcribed recordings of f, but you will find significantly more in my documents. I did a search on tarryscant.com a few months ago for most of the comments, quotes, and other statements I have for years 2010 and 2011. Only about 20% of the comments and quotes that I have in my documents could be found on tarryscant.com, so there are a lot of things missing on that website that are certainly worth knowing. But they do continue to add more material as they are able.

        If you have any other questions, contact me at nopaddlecreek(at)gmail(dot)com.

  37. Folks will probably start emailing you more often now…not because you asked them not to, but because they interpret what you just said differently ! It’s all code talk….

  38. Just wondering guys what you’re thoughts are on HOB being a Pika Burrow.

    Living in Scotland I don’t know much about the animals that live in the Rockies but doing some research I came across a photo of this little guy.

    What makes it interesting is that they are brown in colour.

    Put in below home of brown, maybe I’m talking nonsense, what do you guys think?

    Ronnie the Scot

    • You mean the Pika’s that live in the Himalayas?
      (Are you by any chance related to Curious Hobbit?)

      • I guess some species do occur in the US. (sorry Ronnie) I watched a documentary on them and thought they only lived in Asia. (Wiki is your friend).
        I personally have never seen one in the US although Prairie Dogs are common in the Rockies and are also brown.

    • Pikas are tundra-dwellers in the Rocky Mountains, so following your thought, below the home of Pikas could be a way of saying “below the alpine tree line” (say 11,000 feet on average). Putting a searcher in the upper part of the TC elevation range clues.

      Somewhat related (possibly), 10,800 feet is the lowest elevation of glaciers in the Colorado Rockies.


      “And Men shall fashion Glaciers into Greenness and harvest April rivers in the Autumn.”
      (from Thomas Hornsby Ferril’s “Here is a land where life is written in water)


    • Ronnie the Scott – I believe the Craighead Institute is founded by the Craighead brothers, who Dal has met previously. He mentioned that in his last search story of the Grayling Creek area; the one he went on with Cynthia. They are pretty famous for their Grizz research


      I would rather meet a Pika at high altitude, in the rocks, up in one of those Montana or Wyoming cirques, than a Grizz. I I think the link says that the rain starts at 5,500 feet in Montana. They are members of the bunny family. But this could be another rabbit hole…

    • Hi, Ronnie. Pikas are pretty numerous in the Colorado Rockies. I mostly see them above treeline and oftentimes only hear the little “beep” noises that they make without spotting them. They seem to build their homes in dens well-hidden in gaps under piles of talus, so pinpointing their home would be about as difficult as pinpointing the home of a field mouse, shrew, vole, or the like.

  39. Well Guys;

    Weather in Wyoming is clear for the next couple of days, so my search team and I are off to the “wood” (s). We have decided that one last search is in order before the snow flies. We will come home with Indulgence, or have all winter to plot a new plan – if there is one.

    If it is not where I think it is, I am not sure if there is any place I can then go. We have searched “MY” area pretty thoroughly – so, let’s hope we find it. I am not ready to throw in the towel. JDA

  40. I looked up on the internet and pikas can be found in the Rockies at 6000 feet.

    Good luck JDA on your search, stay safe.

    Ronnie the Scot

    • **** Ron the Gun – “pikas can be found in the Rockies at 6000 feet.” ****

      Thanks for the correction – looking at the big picture, that would make perfect sense for the Montana Rockies, where the low elevation for glacier/snowpack can go all the way down to 5,400 feet.

      In Colorado and southern Wyoming I’ve only ever seen or heard pikas above 10,000 ft, but the Montana Rockies are colder much lower than the Rockies further south (MT treeline can be as low as 6,000 ft versus about 11k for CO). Never have set foot in the Montana Rockies.


      • Jake,

        Thanks for the education, it just made me wonder if HOB could have something to do with some kind of animal.

        Some searchers suggested HOB was maybe somehow connected with brown. trout, that’s what put the idea in my head.

        What other animals live in the Rockies that are brown apart from the obvious brown bears?

        Ronnie the Scot

        • Ronnie nearly all the animals in the Rockies could be included in the brown family imo elk deer eagles beavers hawks rabbits squirrels may as well ask how deep is a hole

          • Tbug,

            Thanks for that, it sounds like it could be a very very very very very big hole?

            Ronnie the Scot

    • Hi Jenny

      Thank you for the link. I like heating from people that knew Forrest so well back in the early days of the chase. Some great stories and insights cone from all of you.

      I may have missed hit, I mean I know I did. Is there a video or transcript of the q and a after the AQ Lure screening?


  41. Hey Zap…Over on Key Word yesterday you replied to Seeker;
    “Hi Seeker: as demonstrated by 7 years of failure….
    What’s remarkable is that multiple searchers got within 200 feet so long ago.”
    Seeker replied , ” Ya jumping the gun…” etc.
    This line of discussion is one that should make you pause; take a minute to think about your words carefully. Seeker’s response is very telling for a # of reasons. Foremost is the “fact” that in the earlier days the majority of folks were not even close to fanning out into the nether regions of the search area.
    Further…Seeker points out another “fact” in that Fenn’s ATF, interviews…blah blah were sparse blah blah…and yet folks somehow managed to get to the 1st two clues. Hmmmm You even say that is “remarkable”.
    Now….why do you suppose that is? What were a lot of searchers doing then…and not so much now? Clearly there is a logical explanation…that might give pause to overstuffing the Easter basket for lack of a better tactic.

    • Yeah… What ken said, or Ken, or Kenn… Kenneth? LOL
      All I can say is; There’s only One Seeker. Be glad for that!
      psss, ken? Where did you find my drivers’ license picture?

    • Hi ken: I don’t find it remarkable that people figured out the first two clues years ago. It “only” took me a year to figure it out (IMO). What’s remarkable is that people got within 200 feet so many years ago, yet since then (apparently) no one has improved on that proximAty. I think it’s because most people who solve the first two clues think that “Not far, but too far to walk” means they have to head down the canyon at least several miles (in their car, Seeker!) before they’ll encounter Fenn’s home of Brown. So they blow right past all the clues because of an erroneous interpretation of “too far to walk”.

      • Blow right past all the other clues but come within 200 feet?

        Or are those different searchers in your mind?


        • Said here a little differently than the usual cites:

          “I think there have been people within a couple hundred feet. They figure the first two clues, but they don’t get the third and the fourth and they go right past the treasure chest.” ff 5/20/2015 Julius Brighton video

          (Also, to me, plays into the “small destination/in tight focus/can’t get closer than” way of thinking about the search map scale.)


          • Hi Jake

            That’s sounds about right.
            My working theory is that searchers have missed the blaze indicating a change if direction. Sounds like FF thinks the problem starts earlier.

            It also sounds like he is uncertain himself how many clues they’re are or what they may be.


      • Lugnutz, I think anyone that solves WWWH will unavoidably come within 500 feet of the treasure chest’s location. I believe some fraction of those will get out of their car, get off the beaten trail, and inadvertently get closer but for the wrong reasons. And by choosing the (wrong) route they will prevent themselves from getting any closer than a couple hundred feet. That’s my working theory, anyway, and it fits with the spot I’ll check out next year.

        • Ok Zap

          We seem to agree then the location, the while walk, us rather small?

          I mean if you can start walking the wrong way and be within 500 feet.


        • I think that if you solve WWWH, it doesn’t matter where you go from there — you’ll come within 500 feet of the chest, even if you never get out of your car. I think hundreds of thousands of people come within 500 feet of the treasure every year. I know this isn’t a popular opinion, but I think it will turn out to be correct.

          • Zap – would it also be accurate to say that millions of people come within 500 feet of the chest every year? Just expanding upon your mention of hundreds of thousands.

          • Hi CovertOne: it ~could~ exceed a million, but I felt “hundreds of thousands” was a safer statement. The population of Montana is just over a million. For comparison, Yellowstone has seen over 4 million annual visitors each of the last three years. (So obviously I don’t think WWWH is at Madison Junction, otherwise I could have safely said “millions”.)

        • wait Zap, you think within 500 feet of wwwh? Wrong path and just a couple hundred? You have 8 more clues. Are you saying all the clues are within 500 feet of each other???
          I guess that would put all the clues in tight focus, even though Fenn said a few. I don’t see Fenn using such a small area when he wants to get people out to see nature.
          I’m not saying you’re wrong, just doesn’t seem like Fenn. If you’re playing the solve clues game, then why can’t we search for other clues first in this area? Why not skip clues? I guess they could all be in a football sized stadium, just seems Fenn built this around distance. You have a lot of ‘splaining to do Lucy…

          • Charlie

            1000 by 1000 would be 22 acres and I have been lost in the woods in much smaller areas. To us the same visual thats 20+ football fields.

            Just to name one, I would say goal reached his goal of getting people outside, with Diggin’ Gypsy!


          • Hi Charlie,

            “wait Zap, you think within 500 feet of wwwh?”

            No, that’s not what I wrote. WWWH could be miles from the treasure chest.

            “You have 8 more clues. Are you saying all the clues are within 500 feet of each other???”

            Again, you are making some assumptions beyond what I wrote. Re-read it with the idea of the broadest possible interpretation.

            “If you’re playing the solve clues game, then why can’t we search for other clues first in this area?”

            You could, but Forrest strongly advises against it. First of all, how are you going to get to “this area” to search for the downstream clues that are in the vicinity of WWWH? In my opinion, the way Forrest has engineered his clues, they only work in one direction. IMO, there is one unique WWWH in all of the Rockies as he designed that clue. There is no such uniqueness for “canyon down,” or “home of Brown,” or blaze or the other clues.

            I guess I just don’t understand the temptation to bypass clues when Forrest says you have to solve them in order and that there is no other way to follow them (to his uncertain knowledge). Why make it harder than it already is?

          • Maybe my brain is fried Zap,

            I think anyone that solves WWWH will unavoidably come within 500 feet of the treasure chest’s location.

            How can wwh be miles from the tc when if you have the correct wwh you will unavoidably come within 500 feet? If wwh is miles away, and I have it correct, then am I 500 feet away or not?

            I think that if you solve WWWH, it doesn’t matter where you go from there — you’ll come within 500 feet of the chest, even if you never get out of your car

            What if I go in the opposite direction?

            I believe wwh is unique, but if we also know hoB, who cares about wwwh? If we have found the blaze, who cares about either of those two places?

            I’m reading you saying that if we solve for wwwh, then we are at a place within 500 feet of the chest, unavoidable. No matter where we go after that.
            “I think that if you solve WWWH, it doesn’t matter where you go from there — you’ll come within 500 feet of the chest”
            I’m missing something. Sorry.

          • Okay, Charlie, an example. Suppose the chest was hidden 500 feet north of the West Entrance of Yellowstone, but that WWWH was 7-mile Bridge. It actually ~does~ matter which way you drive to WWWH in that case. If you drive from, say, Madison Junction, there is no need to drive into the town of West Yellowstone, in which case driving to WWWH would NOT put you within 500 feet of the treasure. However, if you drive from West Yellowstone to 7-mile Bridge, then I think you’d agree that the act of driving there would unavoidably put you within 500 feet as you passed through the west entrance.

            My location is similar: you can approach from two directions. But from WWWH, “canyon down” is only one of them.

          • Zap, have you forgotten that I live in So.Cal.? Now I have to get maps of where 7 mile bridge is and….just kidding. I hear you now Zap. Got it.
            The only thing now is to try to convince me what a clue is. I say it is pointless to try to solve the clues in the poem. So, if you believe you have solved the “clues”, then I will have to say that you are “guessing”. And we know where that leads.
            I’m not saying that you are a “clue” purist, I’m just curious if you are going that route because you seem positive you have wwwh figured out. Also, I believe you have hoB as a clue..?? If so,…….well, then your hoB would need to be tied into your canyon down tied into your wwh. And that would be guessing. Now, if you believe you have solved the poem and everything stems from the “X” on the map, then forget what I said, I wait to hear about your solve when the time comes.
            As far as the wwh 2 direction thing I understand. Mines the same way. Two ways to get into Anaconda. Come from the East, I will come to wwwh first, come from the West, I come to the “canyon down” first. It’s the “canyon down” (or South), that dictates the direction. With all the ATF comments, I can make a solid argument that all of Anaconda is wwwh, in fact, the whole Deer Valley. That’s the thing with the ATF comments, they fit just as many places as does all the wwh’s in the Rockies. Wait, what were we talking about? Time to go home. Good luck Zap.

          • Hi charlie — no, I haven’t forgotten (Pasadena as I recall). In my filed emails, I have all the California-based searchers in the same folder.

            “The only thing now is to try to convince me what a clue is.”

            WWWH is a clue. The blaze is a clue. Everything else is speculative.

            “I say it is pointless to try to solve the clues in the poem.”

            Why would you say that? The only way anyone is going to find the chest is by solving the clues in the poem.

            “So, if you believe you have solved the “clues”, then I will have to say that you are “guessing”. I’m not saying that you are a “clue” purist, I’m just curious if you are going that route because you seem positive you have wwwh figured out.”

            All I can say is that I’m sufficiently sure of WWWH that I’ll never change it, nor my interpretation of “canyon down.”

            “Also, I believe you have hoB as a clue..??”


            “If so,…….well, then your hoB would need to be tied into your canyon down tied into your wwh.”

            They are all interconnected, yes.

            “And that would be guessing.”

            “Guessing” has a negative connotation in my book — it suggests a lack of underlying logic or deductive reasoning, and I assure you that is not the case.

            “Now, if you believe you have solved the poem and everything stems from the “X” on the map, then forget what I said, I wait to hear about your solve when the time comes.”

            I’m not sure I follow what you mean by “everything stems from the X on the map.” My interpretation of the clues leads me to a specific destination, and one that cannot ~reasonably~ be reached by an alternative path.

            “With all the ATF comments, I can make a solid argument that all of Anaconda is wwwh, in fact, the whole Deer Valley.”

            Except Forrest has said that WWWH is not a “region” — it’s a specific place. A point on the map.

          • Zap, rebuttals:
            wwh for me narrows down to a hardware store in Anaconda.

            “Guessing” has a negative connotation in my book — it suggests a lack of underlying logic or deductive reasoning, and I assure you that is not the case.

            I look at it (regarding the chase) as either a guess or a fact. No matter how much deductive reasoning one does, a guess is a guess.
            Fact: WWWH is a clue. The blaze is a clue. (I’ll give you canyon down, so 3 clues).
            Guess: “Everything else is speculative.”
            I agree

            I fall into the same hole. I have so much info and proof positive of a clue, but, in the end, I have to admit it is a guess. Because I don’t know for a fact. I will know as a fact when someone finds the chest. That is why I comment, trying to solve the clues is pointless. It’s the “poem” that must be followed precisely. Following the poem will give you the clues, which is why he can say, follow the clues. Leaving with confidence means leaving with knowledge, training, and a good ego helps, right? These are the things we will acquire or go through with the poem. Knowledge is from knowing, or fact, not guessing. You can research and argue that water freezes at 32 degrees F, and in some cases even be correct, but if you don’t know the pressures involved, that would be a guess, you would need more info to make the fact that water starts to crystalize at -48 degrees C, or -55 degrees F. And, like I said before, with him not sure if there are 4 clues solved or not from a searcher, but possible, leads to whether that searcher knew what a clue was, because either f knows or not, only a picture of the spot of the forth clue and not understanding it could that lead to f’s comment. That could lead to the thought of the forth clue not being able to be solved at home, which leads back to confidence.

            “I say it is pointless to try to solve the clues in the poem.”
            Why would you say that? The only way anyone is going to find the chest is by solving the clues in the poem.

            The only way someone is going to find the chest is if they solve the poem…

            Did you use a map while you were finding your spot? That could influence someone to force fit what they believe is a clue. map and GE are good reference materials, but in the beginning, he did not say all you need is the 9 clues solved correctly, or maps, he said all you need is the poem. That leads to the fact that to find the chest, all you really need is the poem. It can be solved. Reading it for face value and guessing at what might be a clue is not solving the poem. Like you said, it’s speculation.
            You won’t be leaving your house in confidence, you will be leaving on the speculation that you are correct. Something will always be in the back of your mind regarding the path you will take. In the chase, if there is even a 1% chance that you are guessing, or relying on luck, or unsure of a certain part of the path, you have to take that as a 100% absolute that it is wrong. (not trying to go Batman here, but it’s true). Because guessing according to f is not going to find the chest.
            Hey, you may be right in your spot, lucky maybe, only way to know is to solve the poem. Knowing that the 5th line is a clue and knowing that you cannot solve line 5 on it’s own should be a red flag. Could you truly know what hoB is without a map, or that it is even a clue? Could you know exactly what the blaze looks like? Is it just the “b” lazy? Is there any reference to places and landscape in the poem that you can say for sure? All the deductive reasoning in the world will only get you as far as logical speculation. That’s not good enough.
            I’m in Fullerton, lol :). Believe me Zap, I only wish you the best. To you I won’t say good luck, I have a feeling your passed relying on luck. The solve will come out of So. Cal. (that part is IMO.)

          • Hi charlie – I think we just disagree on semantics as far as what “guessing” means to you vs. what it means to me. For me, if I considered my solution to just be a “guess,” then I would never put BOTG. A guess to me is no different than blindly putting my finger down on the map.

            The “facts” in the Chase are pretty much useless for solving the poem; all the facts do is tell you when your solution is flawed. But there are still plenty of bad solutions that can be constructed that don’t violate any of the known facts.

            “It’s the “poem” that must be followed precisely. Following the poem will give you the clues, which is why he can say, follow the clues.”

            I have to disagree. Following the poem tells you nothing about what Fenn considers to be a clue. It is only his ATF comments that have given us some insight here. To use your definition, other than WWWH and the blaze, all we can do is make an educated *guess* at what the poem’s clues are, and then attempt to solve those.

            “The only way someone is going to find the chest is if they solve the poem…”

            In my opinion, “solving the poem” and “solving the clues in the poem” mean exactly the same thing.

            “Did you use a map while you were finding your spot?”

            Absolutely. The poem is unsolvable without a map, in my opinion. Unless one has a comprehensive knowledge of geography of the Rocky Mountains, I would challenge anyone to explain how the poem can tell you the chest’s location without referencing geographic waypoints or outright giving you GPS coordinates.

            “In the chase, if there is even a 1% chance that you are guessing, or relying on luck, or unsure of a certain part of the path, you have to take that as a 100% absolute that it is wrong.”

            I think if you strictly adhere to this maxim, you will never be able to put BOTG.

            “Knowing that the 5th line is a clue and knowing that you cannot solve line 5 on it’s own should be a red flag.”

            No, it’s not a red flag at all. In my opinion, that line cannot be solved on its own. Those 6 words can take you to places all over the Rockies. Mind you, one of those places is far better than all the others, IMO, but it’s not enough on its own to put you at a precise spot.

            “Could you truly know what hoB is without a map, or that it is even a clue?”

            In my opinion, absolutely not.

            “Is there any reference to places and landscape in the poem that you can say for sure?”

            To the level of sureness that I require to commit time and money to go there? — yes, WWWH is locked down (seeing as how I’ve been there multiple times).

            “I’m in Fullerton, lol :).”

            Whoops, my mistake. It’s Linda who’s from Pasadena. 😉

          • Okay Zap, fair enough. The whole clue, hint, guess, fact, thing is such a fine line between them all. It’s easy to overanalyze the whole mess. One more question.
            You’ve been to your wwh, know for sure that it is it, have ATF comments to support, it fits better than any wwwh places can be, but,
            I’ve been to my wwwh, know for sure it is it, have bunches of ATF comments that support, book text, poem solve, it fits better than any other possible wwwh can be. So, how can there be 2 wwwh?
            (simple answer, one is wrong), but which one?
            Wouldn’t both be wrong until proven otherwise? Since you are following clues, how do you know?
            If the poem yields coordinates, what do the clues really matter? Except for the last one of course. Won’t the person that solves the poem this way see the clues as they walk their path? Couldn’t that person still leave their house in confidence?
            If you have to believe that your clues are wrong until proven correctly, you cannot leave with confidence, but, if you have the coordinates, you can leave with confidence. The question of if you have a clue right or wrong is mute. Only the last clue.
            Not trying to pick Zap, I respect your thought process, that’s why I ask. This thing is suppose to be almost impossible. To me, that may mean that all the clues cannot be solved for sure. That would make this chase almost impossible.
            Then again, on the flip side, I have 9 strong clues and a key. I’m sure of it, lol.:) The countless ATF comments, book text, pics, and BoTG searches confirm. Lol, we sound like first year searchers that know everything. Good luck Zap.

          • Charlie and Zap…
            I had not been following this thread closely…but did read it this morning with coffee. You both have great points and counterpoints. It appears as though you are at an impasse. Agree to disagree.
            What if you both of you are wrong?
            That is a distinct possibility that seems to not be addressed. Hi ho hi ho off to work I go…

          • Good morning, charlie. Saw that one of the many fires in southern California popped up last night in Fullerton — looked like it was well contained, but oddly in the middle of a residential neighborhood. 4 straight days of Santa Anas – in December, no less – is getting old.

            To answer your question, we obviously both can’t be right since we’re searching in different states. The most probable answer is that we’re both wrong, given the tiny fraction of searchers who Fenn says have solved WWWH. That being understood, if Forrest told me my WWWH was wrong, then I’d quit the Chase because in my opinion it would mean the poem is not only unsolvable, it and all the books are deliberately misleading. Since I don’t think Forrest would go to that much trouble to deliberately mislead people to the wrong location, I don’t give my WWWH a second thought.

            “If the poem yields coordinates, what do the clues really matter? Except for the last one of course.”

            Well that’s a big IF, and even if there are coordinates secreted in the poem, it doesn’t mean they’re coordinates for where the chest is located; they could be coordinates for any one of the clues.

            “Won’t the person that solves the poem this way see the clues as they walk their path?”

            I believe that’s the case. All the clues will be encountered in the proper sequence as you travel the clues.

            “… if you have the coordinates, you can leave with confidence.”

            It is clear from your remarks that you think that the only way you can head to the chest with confidence is if you have its coordinates. Sure, having the precise latitude and longitude would do the job, but I honestly don’t think the chest’s lat & long are provided in the poem. But if you’ve got coordinates (and you’ll need precision to the arcsecond), then by all means go for it. But you should ask yourself: how did people get within 200 feet of the chest *without* coordinates? After all, if they had the chest’s coordinates they should have found it, right?

          • Hey Zap, Actually this last post of yours helps to see both sides of this topic. I think you are right, the coordinates do not get you to the chest. IMO, when you arrive at the coordinates, you have passed by 8 clues. Still on a trail. Actually, these coordinates, I believe, are where a ‘bell” is. For me, the 9th clue and the key take me into the forest.
            As far as the 200ft thing, that’s easy. Just stay on the trail . There is not a lot of traffic, but in winter, you may find locals using this trail to head to the mountain and skiing.
            We are both, most likely wrong. I agree with you, it’s the only true way to look at it. I now/currently don’t put to much into the clues. Because of the coordinates, and with that, I have tons of support info, on the flip side, you use the clues, you have tons of support info, nobody could say we are right or wrong truthfully, I think the big “get” out of this whole post is the possible fact of both being plausible. So it comes full circle, I still believe that in solving the poem you will find the spot and the clues. I also believe that you cannot solve all the clues with the poem, so putting energy into solving the clues instead of the poem will hinder a solve. That and the fact that the only fact in dealing with the clues is:
            Begin it where warm waters halt, is the first clue and “the blaze” is a clue, makes it tough to not think guessing is involved in solving the clues, which is taboo.
            On the other hand, in theory, the clues can be solved. How many there may be, following the correct 9 clues will find the chest.
            It’s not surprising that it turns into a big “catch 22”. I need credit so I need a credit card, but, to get a credit card I need credit. Maybe that is f’s whole game, to make us feel like we are 18 again. If that’s the case, then I need to start looking for ΩΩ. Always, good luck Zap…

  42. Hi Guys;

    Second try to post

    Well, we are back, all safe and sound, but none the richer, except in wonderful memories. Well, we now know one more place that Indulgence ISN’T. 🙂

    No snow, perfect weather.

    Ever optimistic, I think that we found one new critical link to a successful solve. Probably have all winter to think about it, although no snow at all where we were, so who knows when we will return. JDA

    • Welcome back JDA!

      Glad to hear you had a great trip and safely returned, though without the grand prize.

      Take care……… pinatubocharlie

    • So glad you and your family are back safely and had wonderful memories to talk about in the years to come. I have found places I didn’t find Indulgence, but I’ll keep returning because of the beauty these places possess.

        • I’m glad, JDA. While my boots hang for the season, it’s nice to sit back and remember the beautiful places seen, and the challenges met and accomplished. Good memories.

          • pdenver – it sounds very much like you have found your treasure in the beautiful places visited so my hat’s off to FF and yourself – mission accomplished. It’s hearing this type of feedback that is inspiring!

            I have visited places that, otherwise, I would not have went had it not been for the Chase – so can relate. Certainly, those memories for me are a treasure in themselves – even if I don’t find the treasure chest.

            Are you planning to go to Cynthia’s Top Searcher’s Convention next June?

            BTW – I made up that searcher’s convention title…does have a nice ring to it though…

          • Hello Covert One. It appears you have found the beauty of the Chase, too. Would you be so kind to explain Cynthia’s gathering, please? I don’t believe I’ve heard anything. Will you be going?

          • pdenver – at the Nov. 2nd book signing, Cynthia and several of us were talking about meeting up in Southern Montana next June. It really depends upon my work schedule at the time whether I go or not. If the same group that was at the book signing goes, I would like to go – it was a really good group that went to the book signing.

    • Hi JDA – I will give you an A for tenacity. Glad you were able to enjoy The Rockies before snow shuts searchers out.

      • Thanks HMA. Before I went, I said that if I do not find it, I am not sure where to look next BUT – I found something that MAY be a critical find. We shall see, so at least one more trip for me and my team – JDA

        • Gotta admit, I’m annoyed by this development, but I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised.

          Fifteen trips implies some level of addictive behavior so rationalization or whatever is par for the course.

          Hopefully your team finds a few more days before the season fully changes so you can do trip 16 and stop giving everyone SBB.

    • Jda-
      Glad you made it back safely. Better luck next time–you’ll find it one of these days!

      • Thanks Sparrow – All I can do is try to learn from my mistakes, and try nit to make the same mistake twice – JDA

    • JDA – Glad you are back safe and content,…well, for now, anyway. And I am not surprised you said there wasn’t any snow. We are waiting for the mountains to be covered here in Sun Valley as well. My friend went skiing on top of Baldy just a few days ago, and this was the view of the Pioneers:


      • YUP – YUP That about what my mountains looked like – White at upper elevations (but not much) and bare at the lower elevations. Good luck with the “hunt” and the ski-ing – JDA

      • Thanks Bowmarc – Was up at 2:00 AM at my computer re-writing my “Log” and “Book” re my past and future adventures – approaching 400 pages – Phew. I better find it soon, or I will run out of paper 🙂 JDA

  43. Tim’s thoughts of the day.

    “As I have gone alone in there
    And with my treasures bold,”

    I can imagine FF in his car and/or walking….”Leaving WWWH”….I see him reviewing the beginning of the poem…..and using it to lead us to a starting point.

    Since there is one comma, at this point in the poem….a left turn is useful.

    “I can keep my secret where,”

    As FF is probably still making his way to the starting point, you will notice there is another comma, which now makes me think there is another left turn to be made before one gets to that location.

    IMO and for my general solve, this second comma/location/point in the progression requires me to make a decision….to the right is back to the freeway and you are literally ‘out of the Game zone”….OR….you make a left – per the comma….and follow that until it ends leading you into the Game zone.

    “And hints of riches new and old.”
    – Brings you to the end of the introduction and prepares you to enter the Game.

    The period to me…is a way FF has stated…Stop. You are ready for the next step….it should be a clue, because it states..
    “Begin it WWWH and take it in the canyon down,”
    – notice how the lines do not have any separations by punctuation, this should be read as a single phrase with a dual clue….the where to start and what to take once you figure it out.

    This line of thinking has not been busted yet. Try to…but by basing it upon everything FF has stated.

    Now add in the “deliberately placed” (“don’t mess with my poem”) punctuation….and you have a completed map.

    Periods….stop, observe, move to next clue?

    The duality of their use is relative if you have a compass….which any woodsman should have in their possession.

    Duality….it is used through the poem. Be careful on how you treat.

    Good luck to all. Maybe this will help someone.

    • Tim, I do think it is possible that punctuation may have a factor in the solve though not sure about directions. I have come up with a general solve using punctuation but I looked up the definitions of the various punctuation and applied it to the clues in the poem.

  44. For those who are not of an esoteric or metaphysical nature….then the following “meaning” of the DOUBLE OMEGAS will not benefit you.

    For those who want to go on a magical adventure through the looking glass, like Alice did..then you will enjoy this little roller coaster ride. Pleas keep your hands inside the cart, thank you!

    *plays the roller coaster music from Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory…loudly*

    Where are we going? Who’s driving?

    The Omega Symbols…John Sandbach
    – yeah…I figured some will remember this name.
    – notes to make: date of blog, zodiac reference, the poem, FF’s life, adventures, creation, etc.

    I found FF…did you?

    Your next magical adventure/journey begins here….




    25. Speak Your Mind (Nun Tav Hey)
    Angel: NITH-HAIAH (NIT-ha-YAH) Spiritual Wisdom and Magic

    1 A magician inventing many new techniques.
    2 On the surface of water, flecks of dust floating.
    3 Walking down the street, a man passes his double.
    4 A forest of mirrors used to collect the sun’s energy.
    5 Through narrow, winding streets, a man is following a mysterious woman.

    26. Order from Chaos (Hey Aleph Aleph)
    Angel: HAAIAH (HA-ee-YAH) Political Science and Ambition

    6 Hidden photos of a deceased woman are discovered.
    7 The barking of a dog echoes across a moonlit landscape.
    8 An old medicine man with eyes like a snake’s.
    9 A gigantic sleeping Buddha carved of stone.
    10 A man who sees stars invisible to others.

    27. Silent Partner (Yud Resh Tav)
    Angel: YERATEL (YEH-ra-TEL) Propagation of the Light

    11 A man using both hands is writing several stories simultaneously.
    12 In the basement of a house, a secret escape tunnel.
    13 Hidden passages in a house. Over time, their secret has been forgotten.
    14 Toward the center of a galaxy, the concentration of stars becomes denser and
    15 An ancient text, long kept secret, is revealed to the public.

    28. Soul Mate (Shin Aleph Hey)
    Angel: SEHEIAH (say-HAY-ee-YAH) Longevity
    Releases body and mind from negative emotions

    16 An angel appears to lost travelers and shows them the right direction.
    17 A giant squid sleeping in the ocean depths.
    18 A man walks into the pages of a novel.
    19 A painting is cleaned, revealing colors of otherworldly beauty.
    20 An herb which, if over-consumed, causes one to die of laughter.

    29. Removing Hatred (Resh Yud Yud)
    Angel: Reiyel (RAY-ee-YEL) Liberation
    Helps to remove obstacles and impediments, and to live in a universe without boundaries

    21 On top of a mesa, a lake of pure, deep blue.
    22 A giant temple with many layers. It is in the shape of a mountain.
    23 A secret race of beings carrying on a hidden existence among humans.
    24 A drowning man turns into a fish.
    25 A woman incessantly eating pills.

    30. Building Bridges (Aleph Vav Mem)
    Angel: Omael (O-ma-EL) Fertility, Multiciplicy
    Defeats frustration, despair and depression.

    26 In a bookstore, a chance meeting of long-lost friends.
    27 A man draws a picture on the surface of a lake.
    28 A diamond thought to be fake turns out to be real.
    29 A tiny, poisonous frog with a brightly colored body.
    30 A poetess wearing rings with large gemstones in them.

    • The Duality in Life is important to everyone.

      We are it repeatedly throughout our lives.

      Good versus evil, night versus dsy, sun and moon, black and white.

      We see it within Fennology. we now see it in the esoteric. We see it in the magical, wondrous, in imagination, the adventures we take, and now IMO, the social symbol of Leo.

      FF, is actually on the “cusp” of Leo and Virgo, which gives himself duality.

      Think about it. Its all true.

      • Tim – it’s clear you have the “imagination” part of this down….might want to venture over to the “logic” side of the house every once in a while…IMO

        • LOL

          Do you mean the logic in making such crazy connections?

          I know. I should stop….BUT I CAN’T!!



          Seriously…..bust it open…I’ve tried….I can’t.

          Dig deep.

          Best of luck to you.

        • More duality….
          – we see the poem as a certain group of words.

          – they actually represent something other than she we read.


    • Dal,

      I would like to respectfully request you place a word limit on blog posts, unless submitted thru you first, like a search story.

      Thank you.

      Be the scrapbook

      • I’m sorry for the extended post Pina….I’ll be better…but sometimes a few words just doesn’t help.

        Cheers and my apologies.

        • The thing is Tim, I kinda agree with with you regarding the duality thing as I’ve said recently, though I believe we are looking at it from different perspectives.

          But to be frank, when I see a post like with no BLUF, bottom line up front, I skip all the up front stuff and go to the end. It’s just too much info. I’m looking for the summary, or the Tim for Dummies or Cliff Notes (do they still exist?) version.

          Sorry for my grumpiness, but this dog gone rain (almost 26″ last month and another inch today) is getting to me and the wife.


          • Hey Pina…..these are the cliff notes minus the names.

            Generic as they may sound….just like the poem….I’m not quite ready to give up the ice cream cone.

            Take em or leave em. They are what they are.

            ….just my opinion.


            Cheers and good luck to you.

        • Tim;

          No need to apologize. IF dal feels that it was too long, and you make a habit of long posts, I am sure he will advise you to please shorten your posts – until then – I suggest you write away! JMO – JDA

      • Pinatubocharlie;

        Were you forced to read the long post? Of course not. IF you read it, it was your choice, Just as it was Tim’s choice to enter the lengthy post. The LAST thing we need is additional rules that limit free speech and exchange of ideas. I looked at it, read two lines, and went on to something else – no personal interest- JMO – JDA

  45. Hey community…I just thought of something that Dal may be able to put more into a public place…..then here.

    “What do all those embeded links that are in your email mean?”

    I think I figured it out. The underlined links are as below:

    Pinatubocharlie commented
    – “commented” is the hyperlink that takes the reader to the recent post they are commenting upon, to allow you to read that post.

    on Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt….
    – this link will Take you to the beginning of the blog page. To add to the discussion….scroll down to the bottom…..your post will link to the top.

    – allows a reply directly to the comment thread

    – takes you to the blog page….same as above reference.


  46. I found this children’s poem by Dennis Lee. Here’s the first verse:

    Alligator pie, alligator pie,
    If I don’t get some I think I’m gonna die.
    Give away the green grass, give away the sky,
    But don’t give away my alligator pie.

    I feel the same way! (And please no crocodile tears about the fate of that reptile). 😉

  47. General question:

    I remember an audio where FF was taking about how much he loved the freedom of having an airplane. He says something along the lines of (when heading to the hangar where he kept it) *I could go alone in there* and then just hit the skies. Does anyone else remember this or have I constructed this out of thin air?

    Thanks in advance.

    • Hi Sean.

      A long time ago, back in 2014 I think, I always have thought, just because FF sold his plane, it could still not stop him from flying.

      Usually, if you have money…you pretty much can do many things un-noticed. Just look at how little we really see or interact with celebrities. We “commoners”….hehehe….may ‘run into’ or even have a chance ‘brush with fame’….but that is about it.

      It just goes to show with planning, anyone can sneak away and either rent a plane to fly or be flown to a certain destination and then drive. I once spoke of WestYellowstone Airport as my WWWH…..not sure if others have used it or not.

      Why not? It still hasn’t been disproven. Well not that I have seen, heard, or tead in the hoD.

      Then again…I don’t normally go to other sites, unless for reference to a FF quote.


      • Jake

        Don’t leave out the following, and I am paraphrasing from the tape.

        After I left Sante Fe, I didn’t have to talk to anybody ~f


    • Sean,

      Perhaps you didn’t see it, but above on November 29th Dal posted two links designed to assist searchers in research. I am reposting the links here to make it easy for you. The first is a pay site (modest one-time fee) that Dal uses where you download a data package. The second is free.



      Dal also has a few suggestions regarding each.


      • Oh I missed it. There is so much going on in so many place it’s hard to keep track. I tried tarry scant.com but was unsuccessful. I didn’t know about the first. Thanks for the help.

  48. I find it interesting ff thinks no one is in danger of stumbling across the treasure chest even though searchers have been w/in 200′. It suggests to me that there is a physical barrier that prevents the 200 footers from accidentally stumbling across the chest. A cliff perhaps, (look quickly down). The 200 footers may have taken the wrong path to arrive at the correct location.

    • Kg – you could be right in that something is physically keeping searchers from stumbling upon it. BTW, has anyone ever mistakenly referred to you as lb?

    • I do believe the hiding place is away from any natural trail or clearing. It must be along a path that would not be chosen by a casual hiker, most likely some kind of particularly steep or brushy area that would not be as easy to get through as the adjacent routes.

  49. Hi Guys,

    Just wondering what you think about the following?

    I have always thought that when Forrest said that he traveled at least 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe New Mexico that it seemed to me to be either an exact number or an odd number to pick.

    Based on the following;

    1. His wife hadn’t noticed that he had gone that afternoon.

    2. Not far, but too far to walk.

    As I live in Scotland I was just wondering if you double the mileage from 8.25 miles to 16.5 miles where would it take you?

    Also if you move the decimal point from 8.25 to 82.5 miles where would it take you?

    These distances doing a return journey could be covered in one afternoon with no problems and with plenty of time to spare.

    Just my brain working overtime, there maybe/maybe not something here that might be of some help to some of you guy’s, if it has not been thought about already.

    Ronnie the Scot

    • Hi, Ronnie.

      The 8.25 miles comes originally from Forrest saying that the treasure was hidden at least 66,000 links north of Santa Fe. The “links” are part of an antiquated surveying measurement tool called a “Gunther’s Chain”. Eric Sloane writes about it in much more detail on pages 32-33 of his book “Our Vanishing Landscape”. Eventually, searchers converted the distance measurement from links into the more useful measurement of approximately 8.25 miles.

      So where did the figure 66,000 links come from? I believe I recall that it was an arbitrary large, round number than Forrest pulled out off the top of his head. Forrest stated at some point that essentially the main purpose for giving the hint about 66,000 links north of Santa Fe, was to firmly omit his home and property from the search area so that searchers wouldn’t be trying to dig holes in his backyard, search his old gallery space, bother his friends & neighbors, etc.

      There should be websites with Forrest quotes that support the above, but I’m too lazy to hunt them down. Hope this helps!

      • Blex,

        Many thanks for that, that makes perfect sense regarding the distance to try and keep people away from his property.

        I didn’t think about it that way.

        Ronnie the Scot

    • Ronnie the Scot, what you have stated is much more profound than many searchers understand who live in the Rockies, even those who live here in NM. The exact longitude is 106.00 degrees, at the place in Santa Fe, NM where the measurement for its center is a red dot on Google Earth, due north at exactly 90 miles on the same longitude at the border of New Mexico and Colorado, near Antonito, Colorado. That is at exactly 37 degrees latitude at that border and is exactly 5 degrees latitude north of the border of New Mexico and Texas/ Old Mexico, which is @ 32 degrees on the big ball, and at 32 degrees IMO is one place WWWH.

      So if you moved the decimal point after considering the the first 8.25 miles and added another 82.5 miles, note miles not LINKS, you would be exactly at the Colorado Border on Highway 285, again a true, due norther heading from Santa Fe, NM and it is, coincidentally EXACTLY 90 miles distance from the spot where you find the red dot at 106.0 degrees it seems like a direct tangent north into the Rockies.

      Some scenes of the Indiana Jones films were shot right at that spot In the beginning of this film, “Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade”, young Henry Jones Jr. is on the run from a gang of grave robbers, who he, had subsequently robbed. He finally hoofs it to his childhood home and the relative safety of his father. The real house where this scene was filmed has leaned into its cinematic legacy and become the Indiana Jones Childhood Home Bed and Breakfast, even looks a little FENNISH like too?

      http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMGPRR_Indiana_Jones_House_Indiana_Jones_and_the_Last_Crusade_Antonito_CO, what year was it released? 1989, what a recovery feels like, you have just located the Holy Grail by stealing a Crucifix from the Grave Robbers….

      Now is there any similarities here to our protagonist, ff?

      Could be a LOTTA “LINKS” in that hint, just sayin? Still think my solve borders on some wild imagination, but I am trying to get out on a ledge of knowlege here with my Train of Thought, show it to a kid, don’t ask me to explain that but I could be on the right TRACK…CTRR…hightest one in the USA at 10,021′ and climbing…..



      • Tom Terrific,

        There is a vacancy for a primary school teacher at the school just a long the road from where I live.

        They are looking for a maths teacher to teach five year olds

        I hope that you don’t mind, but I’ve put your name down for a job interview.

        You have got an interview this Friday 8th December at 11.00 am.

        I will get Haggis Mcbagpipes to pick you up at Edinburgh Airport.

        Good Luck

        Ronnie the Scot

    • Hey Ronnie…My wife so wants too go to Scotland…..*sighs*…..

      *perks up*

      That’s it….I’ll come visit you after I find the treasure and I’ll set up a world wide museum tour for the treasure to be seen!


      May I stay with you?


      • Tim,

        Nothing to do with your comment. I noticed on your smiley faces, WordPress uses for their smiley, instead of using the o try putting a dash, then your smiley will appear as 🙂

      • Tim,

        You and your wife are welcome to come to Scotland at anytime.

        “O” I nearly forgot our currency is gold coins.

        Ronnie the Scot

  50. There has been several comments in regards to F’s special place. Most believe that this place is beautiful, open meadows with a beautiful view.

    What if the special place does not look like that, instead a place that isn’t appealing at all. A thought that I have is F may have picked such a place that people wouldn’t visit because of what the terrain looks like. I could also think this may be the case because F may have thought that no one would look, making it a perfect place to hide his resting place and the treasure.

    As it may be now, that his final resting place is in a cemetery, now that he is in remission with the cancer.

    Just a thought on other than what we would expect.

    • CharlieM, I think you’ve picked up on an important point. I believe that the final spot is not conventionally beautiful or majestic in the way most of us have been thinking, and yet it is very special and personal to FF. IMO solving the final clues reveals what is so special about it, and “completes” the theme of the Chase.

      • Yup, no majestic waterfalls or jaw dropping scenery. Beauty must be in the eye of the beholder. (how corny).

    • CharlieM

      Very astute thoughts here. I agree with the possibility of a far less dramatic area for Fenn’s special place. When I seek my area based on my “word that is key”, I am lead to another kind of place.


    • Forrest has described his special place by the foliage and scenery. He also mentioned that it was a place that he would escape to, and > I think < compared it to his garden. A place that he had found, and went alone in there. He thought that it was a nice place to leave his bones.
      I wish that he had said it was a place to leave his ashes. Because I have found a place to leave mine that fits the descriptions that he has given. A beautiful geological preserve. The Morning sun, through scented pines, illumines on the white canyon wall. A mirage shimmering in the clear mountain air– a natural amphitheater. Ancient volcanic stress created deep polygonal fractures. In the subsequent years, water draining from mesa top to the canyon down caused erosion in these fractures. And thus this Canyon with its spectacular, sheer-rock sentinel blaze came into being!

      Now, should I try to figure how it fits the poem, or just enjoy its natural treasure in peace.

    • You hit the nail on its head….but then again…. missed it Charlie….but you are right……art is an opinion.

      IMO – Southwest Impressionism is quite surreal at times and if looking closely at the whole picture, you will then see what I could call a “dream like fuzzy state” of viewing something from faraway, but you are actually up close.

      It is a quite stunning painting….but then again, I find art to be a visual test of our mind’s eye….in how imagination can get away from you if you don’t control it.

      Thanks for posting.

      Good luck sir.

    • Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so goes art and anything else in life.

      This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

    • Mr. Fenn said, don’t go where an 80 year old man, could’nt go. This causes me to think the gain in elevation is slight, even over a distance. If there is a gain?

      • yes..I closed it up..nothing more to be said about Fennboree 2018 unless someone decides to take it over…in which case I’ll start a new post about that…

  51. I feel sad, I never made it to the fennboree! Dang I know I missed them. Wish I could of met everyone! Darn. Well…..huh……well.
    If someone wants to help. I could see having a gathering near Yellowstone. I could make it than more earlier. For sure!
    It would not be the same without Forrest. Could attend? Forrest? We Love You.
    I could help. Let me know.

  52. There is a new category on the right side of the blog called “Meet-Ups”.
    This is a place where folks can post where and when they will be in a certain area and would like to meet up with other searchers…

    For instance, a typical post might read:
    I’ll be in West Yellowstone at the Old Elk Bar and Grill at Noon on June 14th, 2018. If anybody wants to meet up and talk about the search over a cold one, see you there.

  53. I’ve decided not to come back in here anymore for my own wellbeing. So, before I go I want to share a few helpful tips. Everything I’m about to say is my opinion & I will not state anything I don’t believe 100%. I want to thank Dal for putting up with all our arguments & the arrogance of some, we are a motley crew. Thank you sir for your time & effort! I wanted to start by giving the new comers a little advice & this is how I went about my solve. I am very dyslexic, I second guess myself when it comes to words. Look up EVERY word, even if you’re completely sure you know the meaning, not just one definition, all of them, use more than one source. I didn’t visit, read any sites, scrape books, search stories, or watched videos until I had my solve. All the extra noise would have been too confusing for me. Start with the first line of the poem and slowly work through it, then the second, until you have the first stanza solved. I didn’t move forward until I did, it’s important to take one step at a time, don’t rush the poem. Read the book TTOTC a few times, I’ve only read it twice ( I lost my copy in the house fire) & I’ve never read the last two books. Pay attention every time something is described in detail, I believe those are instructions for when we get to the general location. You must figure out the word that is key, there is no other way to solve this poem. I was clear in my post yesterday on my belief on how the word works & that is just the way I used it. Now this next part is something I’ve never seen anyone use like I have. When I read the poem by TS Eliot it made me think circles right away, so that’s what I did. After I had my key word I went through the poem stanza ( location) by stanza ( location) & it took me to a specific location, then I started the poem over. From that specific location my WWWH was just a few miles away & there was no doubt it was WWWH, everything else feel into place without being forced. I will even tell y’all that my starting point is just outside of Yellowstone. You can find the blaze at home & when you’re on location is when the imagination comes in. Once you have located your blaze the 5th & 6th stanza will tell ya what to look for. I wish you all the best of luck, happy holidays, & may you always notice the little things!

    • to my fine feathered friend birdie- congratulations on finding the treasure. you are halfway there. now find the chest.

    • Sorry to see you go Birdie – You have been a delight to get to know. You have some very good ideas – stick with them.

      Best of luck when you visit Yellowstone area in the spring or summer.

      Best of luck to you and yours – Best wishes for the upcoming holiday season – JDA

    • Wishing you health and success in your non-chase related endeavors. Thanks for all you have shared.

    • Sorry to see you go Birdie. Happy Holidays and don’t be shy about stopping by again sometime to say hi.


    • Birdie—-

      All the best to you. Thanks for your post, and sorry to see you go. I’ve always liked your name for some reason. 🙂

  54. As I went with company in there
    And with my wallet bold,
    I could buy every secret ware
    And wrap them up in Christmas silver and gold.

    Began it where many charter buses halt
    And took it in some modern canyons down,
    Not far, but sometimes too far to walk.
    Just hailed a cab to help get us around.

    Shopping here is no place for the meek,
    the spending limit was ever drawing nigh;
    There was no paddle up or down my “creek”,
    Just heavy crowds and buy buy buy.

    Early on I was wise and found the tree
    With bladed feet along its icy base.
    But I could only tarry scant with marvel gaze
    Before moving on to see the yearly timekeeping place.

    So why is it that I have described it so
    And left you with this cryptic speech?
    The answers I already know,
    I’ve done it to learn as much as to teach.

    So listen all and hear me keen,
    Your effort will be worth the toll.
    If you can solve just where I’ve been,
    You may be on a poem solving roll!

      • I think it’s a unanimous decision. Lived in New York for 16 years, and never saw this, although I’ve wanted to, along with the Christmas window displays.

        • The window displays were nice, except for my party getting trapped and nearly crushed in a crowd a city block long in each direction. Took almost 45 minutes to get out of that mess and at one point we had to put our daughters up on a barricade to keep them safe.

          • Wow! I hope the young ladies are okay. I’ve only seen the crowded sidewalks on T.V. and can only imagine just how it truly is like to be in it.

          • Thanks pdenver—everyone is fine, just a little sleep deprived from a L O N G day. To say the least, I’d rather be out there facing down a grizzly than to try and do that again because I think that the grizzly would probably show more compassion than that crowd did.

    • That was quick. Thanks for playing along everyone. I hacked that together in about 15 minutes and it didn’t even take that long to solve. Now imagine one that took 15 years. 🙂

  55. “Look quickly down, your quest to cease,
    But tarry scant with marvel gaze,”

    When you ‘Look quickly down’ some may be thinking that’s where the chest is hidden, but what if it’s not? The word that I’m focusing on is “But”. You are told your quest is ‘ceasing’ “But” you have to ‘pause for a moment’ and ‘marvel gaze’ (stare like a superhero?)
    I’m convinced this is referring to looking through or over something (trees, bushes, rocks) to the actual hiding place on the other side.
    In the original scenario Fenn’s body was going to be lying with the chest right?
    Maybe his final pun really was supposed to be “You can’t see Forrest for the trees”?


    • I think the first part of your thesis is absolutely correct. I believe that the blaze is some considerable distance from the chest. It is also unique and mysterious, something that you won’t find repeated anywhere else in the four states – truly a feature to marvel at.

        • Randawg, my solution uses the clues more than once, and each time the meaning changes slightly. But in relation to the final time, yes it refers to the blaze, which is wholly appropriate given the fact it is a marvel.

    • Randawg, you quoted “Look quickly down, your quest to cease,
      But tarry scant with marvel gaze,”

      Actually, this is only part of the sentence, which ends with “just take the chest and go in peace.”

      When you consider the sentence as a whole, the use of “but” and “just” become clear in my opinion. The sentence is telling us that the treasure is adjacent to the blaze and we should not linger at the site once we have the chest in hand.

      • Tom B, that’s certainly one way to look at it. At one time I thought the same. However, there are other ways to define those words, and you may find directional hints in there, in addition to the basic instruction. A lot depends on what you think “but,” “tarry,” “scant,” “just,” “take,” “chest,” and “peace” are referring to.

        • Some definitions include:
          But = Notwithstanding
          Tarry = Tar-like in color = black
          Scant = A stone that is sawn on two sides
          Marvel = Look in awe
          Gaze = Look upon fondly
          Just = Nevertheless
          Take = Remove
          Chest = Your chest – yourself
          Go = depart
          Peace = without conflict

          So,”Notwithstanding seeing a black stone that is flat on two sides, don’t spend a lot of time looking fondly (at it) – Nevertheless, remove yourself (from here) and go without conflict” – confident that you have solved one more piece of the riddle. (Interp.) JMHO – JDA

          • JD. I appreciate that you have come up with a cohesive interpretation for the sentence as a whole. That is the right approach in my opinion instead of focusing on individual words. I disagree on your interpretation, but I admit that there is a possibility that your interpretation is correct.

          • Thanks Tom;
            This is just one interpretation. I actually use a couple of different interpretations, dependent on where I am in the poem.

            As you know, I think that solving the “riddles” of the poem requires more than one “trip” through the poem, each “trip” requires its own interpretation – dependent on what was discovered in the previous line or lines. JDA

          • Hi JDA.

            – not only “trips” through the poem….But a few trips to your search area is helpful too….so you can get a better lay of the land.

            ….and also build upon that view as well.

            I’ve said it before…..a macro to micro view is required.

          • Black stones have been thought to be an item that helps locate the final location too.

            28th you associating it to the poem , this way, sounds similar to my theory…..that FF may have “marked” a stone…..one stone…..with a scant amount of tar, as a pointer to the chest.

            This also goes along pretty well with a mark I found that represents the letter “X”.
            Odd connection, but only can be verified if I have boots on the ground.

            I think this is a possible way to look at the poem, as well.

            Thanks for posting.

          • JD. I think Forrest has indicated that he is particular about where he places commas and other punctuations. I think his designation of periods is especially important. The complete sentence must make sense. Words have to be interpreted in context. That’s the way I see it. Your approach seems to be similar.

          • Tim;
            I agree that Forrest might have “Marked” a stone, but I believe that he chiseled something on a stone as a “Marker”, not with tar. In my opinion, tar would not withstand the test of time, whereas something chiseled on a stone would – look at the hieroglyphs from the Egyptian era.

            Scant – a stone that is flat on two sides, like a grave marker – like the one on page 95 of TTOTC – the one Forrest stumbled over in Vieytnam .

            Most Grave Markers or “Headstones” are chiseled with an inscription of some kind. A memorial of some kind. Forrest planned to throw his body next to where Indulgence is hidden, with his last dying breath – What would be more fitting than an inscribed memorial of some kind.

            No, I do NOT think it is a headstone with his name upon it. – I think it is much more subtle, and relates to the “Word that is key” – JMO – JDA

          • Hi JDA…..one could also link this characteristic to many things….here is one example.

            A stela has a round top, usually made of stone, flat on two sides, like a grave stone, has a rounded top edge like some of the poems in the book – namely the Nam story, has a connection to Native American structures and communications.

            I could come up with many things on top of these….to show likeness.

            But I’ve also shown you a possible other meaning.

            Good luck.

          • Tim;
            I certainly have taken my fair share of trips to my search area – sixteen at last count. Hopefully I have learned a thing or two.

            One definition of insanity is, “Doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result.”

            Every trip, I have made sure that I do at least one thing different. That doesn’t keep me from being crazy or insane, but it appeases my conscience. JDA

          • Randawg;

            Not in my book. A stone is a natural object. To chisel a marking on it, in my opinion, does not make it a man-made object. The “object” is the stone, which is NOT man-made. There is ornamentation on it, and the ornamentation was created by a man, but the “Object” remains natural – That is just how I read it – JDA

          • Interesting interpretation, JDA. I’ll file that idea away in my mental folder of things to look out for that can possibly be the blaze. (At this point, that folder is getting awfully full!)

        • JDA… Others

          Think about this… maybe you have already… If Mr. Fenn goes out and hides the treasure under something (Possible) and the sits down to die…. how long do you think he would be at that location before a grizzly or other animals would come along for a dinner or snack… possibly carrying him off away from the location.

          so…. “Leave my bones and take the chest” his original poem version he has commented on… can’t comply.

          or can it?

          • James, I’m not sure it matters too much, simply because some “bones” will always remain. The following is an excerpt from FF’s answer to a question on Jenny’s site. Note the aberrational “it,” the lack of movement due to the cold, and the reference to his math teacher. IMO this describes the hiding place. The treasure chest is hidden with “Beowulf” and Beowulf’s bones will always be there.

            “Twice a week I fed Elvis and Beowulf beef liver. Beowulf would swim up and take it his food from my hand. He was a gentleman. It was Elvis I had to watch, and although he was just two feet long, when he smelled the liver he would lunge at my hand. He reminded me of a math teacher I had in high school.

            One early winter day I was looking for Beowulf because it was time to put him in his winter quarters where the water was slightly heated. Elvis was already there enjoying the warmth. I finally found Beowulf under some lily pads and grabbed him by his tail. He was about 4 feet long and I expected him to thrash and resist his capture. Instead, he was lethargic, didn’t move at all. His eyes and mouth were closed. I think he was just cold.”

          • No, because an Arrowhead” is a completed object in and of itself.
            From a much larger stone, the arrowhead was made. Very little remains of the original stone from which it was made.

            In my Stone Marker – the NATURAL stone remains complete, just a little ornamentation has been added to the outer surface. Am I right? Who knows? JDA

  56. That is a popular analysis but I think the fourth stanza has a deeper meaning. The poem is a carefully thought out set of directions and I don’t believe finding the chest will be that simple.

    • Randawg. I think a lot of searchers discard “simple” meanings, believing that would make the chest too easy to find. But this is a calico in my opinion. Less complex interpretations are more likely to be correct in my view. But you still have to define a location within the Rocky Mountains where the clues belong. That is the main challenge I believe.

      • Try to think way past that. Imagine you are 100% certain that you have found the correct blaze but after a careful search of the area you cannot find the chest.
        You would go back and re-analyze the fourth stanza to see if you missed some hidden direction or clue would you not?
        I anticipate people are going to say “if you find the blaze finding the chest will be obvious” or “how can you be 100% sure without the chest in hand?” but could you give an honest answer without sarcasm or sidestepping the question?

        • IMO, being (hypothetically) 100% sure of the blaze will yield absolutely zero – nada – unless you have understood the trajectory.

          Progressing from the blaze requires that you have solved every previous clue, and you know how the geometry has to be employed.

          FF has made sure that you can’t jump in at the blaze stage and find the treasure – it’s just not feasible. This is probably why the treasure hasn’t been found in 7 years. Every clue must be solved in order, and unfortunately for armchair solvers, it’s pretty much impossible to know where the end point is without going BOTG at least four or five times. The reason for that is that simply solving the poem once is not enough! Most people will regard that as crazy, but I stand by it. You can’t just pick a WWWH, wander through the hoB, head up the no-paddle creek and look down at the blaze. The poem needs to be unlocked, worked through, and the trajectory has to be completed – in full, which will require learning to fly solo without your instructor as you head into the final stages. That’s what makes it so difficult.

          • Vox and JD,

            Vox said: “The reason for that is that simply solving the poem once is not enough! Most people will regard that as crazy,…”

            I agree this does sound crazy, LOL. The reason it sounds that way to me is that by ‘solving’ the poem 4-5 times aren’t you coming up with 36-45 different bits of information when F told us we only needed nine? And suppose what you solved at iteration 4 was really supposed to have come into play at iteration 3….wouldn’t that really hose you up? Seems like you head into a geometric progression of problems with this method because getting one clue out of nine wrong is hazardous enough…just saying.

            Can either one of you guys provide a tangible Fenn quote that suggests a basis for this approach or a logical reason to think this is necessary? I mean real logic based on some Fenn facts, not that you just feel it’s the right thing. I’m honestly curious here, not just razzing.

            No fair saying, “Because it works for me” or “It works in my solution” unless you post a picture of yourself rolling around in a pile of gold coins.

          • Colokid;

            In answer to your question I have two responses.
            1) “If you don’t know where it is, go back to the first clue.” f
            2) Forrest had also once stated, “The person who finds the treasure will have studied the poem over and over, and thought, and analyzed and moved with confidence. Nothing about it will be accidental. (Continuing the quote from Forrest)
            T.S. Eliot said:
            We shall not cease from our exploration
            And at the end of all our exploring
            Will be to arrive where we started
            And know the place for the first time.” f

            These two quotes tell me that if I can not find Indulgence, go back to clue #1 – “Begin it where wwh…”

            The second quote indicated to me that the architecture of the poem is a circle. The last line of stanza #6 – “…in the wood…” leads back into “…in there” of stanza #1 – So, If I have followed the clues precisely, and yet have not found Indulgence, go back to clue #1 – but not starting at the same place I started in the first place, but start anew from where I am standing. Look for a NEW wwwh, a NEW canyon down, a NEW hoB etc.

            Each time that I have done this, I have been able to find a NEW wwwh. etc.
            Was it easy? Heck no it wasn’t, but each time there WAS a new wwwh etc. Each time, getting me closer to Indulgence.

            Someone likened it to a target. First reading gets you to the outer ring, the second reading, you get closer to the bulls eye. The final trip will get you to the very center of the bulls eye.

            Hope this explains my strategy, and your question – JDA

          • JDA ~” Look for a NEW wwwh, a NEW canyon down, a NEW hoB etc…”

            That’s not a solve if you have to look for another place a clue refers to… it doen’t matter how many times you look and find a NEW wwwh, obviously the first one was wrong, right?
            What your basically describing is; you have a favorite location you don’t want to give up and working through a process of eliminations of the entire area… in a poke and hope mode.

            I sure hope the poem isn’t like that.

            Vox ~”IMO, being (hypothetically) 100% sure of the blaze will yield absolutely zero – nada – unless you have understood the trajectory.”

            Trajectory of what?
            Fenn said in a Q&A; if you can find the blaze the answer of how far from the blaze the chest is would be obvious… That sounds like 100% sure to me, or maybe I should say 100% obvious.

          • Seeker;

            You may be right, but I am not yet prepared to say I am wrong – So, I guess I will keep pokin’ and hopin’ – JDA

          • JD,
            OK I see what you did but nothing in either one suggests an iterative process. The iteration part is a pretty big leap, IMO. #1 is a random words so there is no context to go with it. #2, seems like you are leaning on the TS Elliot part to get something circular not the Fenn part.

            Wouldn’t a more straight forward interpretation of 1 be: ‘go back to the drawing board and start over’ and 2; ‘it’s not easy…it’s gonna take a lot of thinkin’?

            You didn’t mention how you justify turning 9 clues into 40-50. I can’t help but feel that’s over complicating.

          • voxpops… I’m in agreement with this… but be careful on the word “unlock”… Haha. Slving the poem is only done (and chest in hand) with BOTG. not sure on the trajectory thing but I do understand where you’re headed.

            colokid, you said,”when F told us we only needed nine?” where’s that quote? you’re the quote guy…ff said there are nine clues in the poem… he never said we “Only need nine!” did he? just clarifying here. why can’t there be more?

            JDA… I’m not sure on the circle thing… ff poem says, “drawing neigh.’

          • Thanks JD for sharing your thought process…I finally(kinda) understand your “circular” theory. I gotta say that definitely fits in the “imagination” mode. The two quotes you offered have a totally different bearing for me.
            The first one I believe was a very honest statement offered up to encourage searchers…and maybe a statement with some juice to it. Coupled with his many comments about folks walking on by the rest of the clues…maybe it was a nudge to say…slow down and take in the view a bit. Also/and/or, put in context with his remark about going up a hill to look back where he came from… could be an indicator of a much smaller search area. And maybe more.
            The second one(your favorite), again differs for me. I clearly do not see it as a directive to go in circles…or perform a circular search looking for missed wwwhs or any other clue. I see it more as, in it’s entirety, a sage set of instructions/suggestions on how to dig deeper to decipher the clues, backed up by a famous quote that tells the story of adventure/exploration through a lifetime. I admit it seems circular…and in reality it metaphorically is…but I believe it was offered up to explain that this is a tough nut to crack. Fenn took his entire life experiences(up to the hide) and used every thing he imagined and learned to pull this off. At the end…will be to understand that with fresh eyes.
            Again…thanks for sharing what you did…I do see where you are at.

          • James,
            You’re pitching me softballs. ha, ha

            “There are nine clues in the poem and if you can figure out THOSE clues they will take you to the treasure chest and you can have it.” f

            ‘Those clues’ (the nine in the poem) not a dozen others.

          • James (TZP);

            The poem says, “The end is ever drawing nigh.” Notice the EVER. Ever means more than once, so, ” The end (of the chase?) will ever (more than once) be drawing nigh (getting closer). (Things in parin’s are my interpretations of the poem. JDA

          • Colokid, you made a statement of “only”…. Mr. Fenn [[[[ never ]]] said “only”!

            Strike 1

            Everyone only presumes “only”

          • JDA


            Drawing neigh means always moving Left… from point A (WWWH) to B (TC) location.

            It’s 5 Steps

          • James (TZP)

            If ever drawing nigh means ever drawing left – 5 steps – you have just drawn a box and started another one on top of the first leg. Talk about staying “in the box” you are taking it to extremes don’t you think? Something is wrong here, and I don’t think that it is me or my thinking – and that’s no fast ball or curve ball either – JDA

          • JDA

            B ___

            Moving right to left. I didn’t say “every” move was a left move. It’s drawing to the left (side).

            The end result is left.

            How about now? Any clearer?

            There’s no box.

          • James (TZP)

            Sorry you DID say every move was left – Here is what you said, “Drawing neigh means ALWAYS moving Left… from point A (WWWH) to B (TC) location.

            It’s 5 Steps
            What you said – to me at least is –
            From point “A” (WWWH) turn left to “B” Which is the TC – ALWAYS turn left – 5 times (it’s 5 Steps)

            Your :
            B ___

            Moving right to left:

            Doesn’t help me much either.
            If I start at the bottom and read right to left (as your instruction says to do) it says – Start at A (WWWH) go left, turn right – next line up keep walking, turn right, next line up – keep walking, turn right again to B (the TC)
            ??? Help – I guess I am just slow – JDA

          • James,
            Sorry…I forgot the secret recipe. Missing words mean we can jump to unsubstantiated conclusions, right is left, up is down, it’s all opposites. That’s how you solve the poem?

            Once again, not buying in. I’m afraid you’ll have to tread water in that Bermuda rabbit hole without me.

          • So Colokid… You mean you don’t understand you’re the one that miss quoted with the word “only”. I noticed you skitrted that issue.
            Strike 2.
            Nice try though.

            So JDA… Let me clarify what I meant by “always moving left”… it’s like a staircase. Interpretation is always different in people’s mind. This blog is definitely that.

            Take a piece of paper and put A on the right. A is Madison Junction ( IMHO its WWWH )

            Draw a line to the left (step 1). I’m not going to tell you any distances, roads or trails.
            Then a line up (step 2)
            then a line Left (step 3)
            then a line up ( step 4)
            then a line Left (step 5) to B = TC

            So from A to B is a move to the left.

            That’s the way I interpret drawing neigh.

          • James: if you’re counting strikes, you better count one against yourself. Nigh in the context of the poem does not mean left. In “drawing nigh,” nigh is an adverb. Now if it was an adjective describing horses or oxen (e.g. “He sat astride the nigh horse”), then nigh would be serving in the capacity of being on the left side. But “ever drawing nigh” means continually getting closer.

          • Zap,

            There have been a few occasions where Forrest has related stories about golf. The Sam Snead SB (180) and the story (couldn’t find it) about when he landed on a golf course to buy some artwork and rugs.

            So with that in mind, can you help me understand why drawing nigh couldn’t also be referring to a right-handed golfer hitting a left draw? That is drawing nigh?

            More importantly, why can’t nigh be both near and left? Perhaps they are married to each other.


          • Hi Pinatubo – yes, golf has come up a number of times in his stories. He mentions playing golf at Scott AFB with Bill Hale, and the time Byron Nelson came into his gallery and explained the difference between a good golfer and a great one.

            “So with that in mind, can you help me understand why drawing nigh couldn’t also be referring to a right-handed golfer hitting a left draw? That is drawing nigh?”

            Perhaps you could say that, but it’s kind of a misuse of the word (not that Forrest isn’t above twisting a word now and again). It’s like the joke about the student who penned in a writing assignment, “The women fell and lay prostitute at the base of the stairs.” The professor’s note of correction read: “The word you want is prostrate. There is a difference between a fallen woman and one who has merely slipped.”

            If we are to believe that the poem is straightforward, the simplest reading of the line is that from that point on in solving the clues, you will be continually getting closer to the chest. One interesting take-away from such a statement could be that ~prior~ to this point, you might NOT have been continually getting closer.

          • Zap, that’s a great point! I hadn’t thought about the fact that prior to stanza three you are moving away from the chest, but you’re absolutely correct, IMO!

          • Thanks for the response Zap.

            I’m a hear’in what you’r a say’n and though your example is very humorous,and to be perfectly honest, I had to look up what “prostrate” meant because my only association with that word is cancer, which took my father in 2012.

            Having said that, your suggestion in the very last sentence about not moving closer actually works for me.

            Have a great weekend.


        • randawg,

          I can’t speak for Tom, for me I believe I have solved all of the clues including the blaze. The blaze was hard to figure out. Sure I can’t prove beyond a shadow of doubt until I put botg to get the chest.

          For me I will not put botg unless I am very certain that that all the clues have been found. I believe I have solved all, mainly because they fit easily and hard to argue otherwise. My botg will come this spring because I am certain. Its very hard as not to delay which = “tarry scant”

          Sorry for the butt in. 🙂

          • CharlieM.
            I have to ask, why you need to wait?

            Is the blaze in an area you can’t get to because of snow footage at the moment?
            Is it a long hike for cold weather?
            Are the roads closed?
            I’m just cuious, because you seem convinced you have it all figured out.

            I guess I should have asked first is; Do you know where the blaze is?
            fenn answered a Q&A which said, if you know where the blaze is… the distances of the chest away would be obvious.
            And if we know where it is we can ‘probably’ retrieve the chest in any weather. If you have the correct blaze in your mind… is a December retrieval out of the question?

          • Seeker,

            I believe that I have located the blaze.
            It is too cold for one, The road more than likely is open. I have too many commitments to go even after the New Year. This spring may be open to going.

        • Randawg: I’ve already experienced the situation where I was “sure” that I had solved the poem all the way through the blaze. A search of the blaze area did not produce the treasure, so my next step was to review my solution from the beginning. Having done that, I am satisfied that my warm waters halt and home of Brown are correct. I have now concluded that I followed the wrong creek at home of Brown. Recall that the poem says “your” creek. Following the other creek on satellite views, I have now identified what I believe is the blaze. Currently, I am in the process of trying to arrange an on-site search. Yes, I have no doubt that the blaze and chest are close to each other and if the blaze is correct, the chest will be found.

          • Tom B

            I would really love to hear your ideas on the meaning of “your creek”. I know you cannot tell me minute details, but can you just explain any part of how you have determined what “your creek” means, as opposed to “any creek”?


        • JDA.

          Dal’s blog always put everything to the left.

          If you line up the ends of ___ to the below | then you’ll have what I mean if you draw it out.

          • So, you start at A (WWWH) -go left, turn right, then go left – turn right, then go left to TC – Is that correct? So, a stair step if you will. – two actual steps? – 5 moves??
            How is this ALWAYS turning left?? Just askin’ JDA

          • See other upward reply. I said always Moving left. That’s different than turning left. I never said “turning”.

          • Just like ff never said “only” nine clues. Just my opinion though.

            If I said there are 9 innings in a ball game… Does it mean there are only 9 innings ? Depends on the game right? If someone says there are 100 yards in a football game. Is the field only 100 yards? No… There’s yardage in the end zone right ?

          • There are nine inning if baseball… to be played. There are no ties to break in a treasure hunt!
            A football field is 100 yards long and 50 yards wide… you don’t play in the end zone… You don’t play on the side lines. The stands can be 50 rows back… do we need to know the distance of this area to know a football field correct size.

            The man has said nine clues in every comments about the clues and tells us to Follow the 9 [ nine ] clues contained in the poem… not nine plus clues, not nine and a few hidden clues…
            I’m starting to wonder, that this poem is so difficult you guys are making new rules just to make yourselves feel better.

            More than nine clues to be deciphered in the poem…
            More than one correct blaze…
            More than one solve…
            fenn say one thing but means the opposite…
            fenn only tells only 85% of the truth [ apparently all the time ]…
            The chest must be in water because fenn didn’t say it was not “in” water, he said “not under water…”

            Holy crap on a cracker… I swear I’m listening to the president’s media meetings and reading twitter at the same time.
            Goofy can you fix the freakwincing wave? I think there’s a bleed over from the Fox News channel.

          • I would like to respectfully request folks restrain from political commentary and innuendo and respect the HoD. Such comments have no place here and degrade the overall conversation and debate. And it will quickly go downhill and turn the HoD into one of those other sites you guys have criticized in the past.


          • Where was politics mentioned? It was all about media representation… news twitter… a blog.
            Public media, Private media, social media… anyways it was as a funny analogy. Never was politics mentioned.

            Can’t stand the topic myself….

          • Seeker,
            Really? You mention president, media, twitter, and Fox News, and you believe most would, in lieu of current events, consider it apolitical? Throw in a derogatory term or two, and it’s funny?

            Reconsider… please.

          • Seriously guys,
            Where’s the political comments…
            Your adding what the media is saying about current events at this time in your heads and to the post.

            I’m talking about how one media platform says one thing and three other say three different things, and all contradicting themselves from one broadcast to the next…

            Anchor; The President said there are nine clues Contained in the poem.
            On scene reporter; This just in, we have a source that says there are 42 clues.
            Anchor; Well our partner station is reporting that there are over 200.
            On scene reporter; We have another source that say the President only tell 85% of the truth.
            Anchor; Well then, there must be at least 180 clues, But hold on… there is late break news… the President chief of staff is making an announcement…
            P-CS; The President says he didn’t inhale, encourages other not to, and is outrage by the media and the fake news.
            cue commercial…… This is your brain… this is your brain on drugs… get the picture

          • @ Seeker – You absolutely do count each end zone on a football field so the length is actually 120 yards in total (or else I am lodging a complaint with the NFL that all those fade passes to the corner of the end zone that my team seemingly loses to week in and week out do not count!) 🙂


          • Really cute Seeker – Thanks, I needed a laugh this morning – Didn’t sleep much last night – Boo Hoo -JDA

          • JDA,

            Your question made me stop and think a little, and then it hit me, but it certainly takes some imagination, so please don’t be too hard on me.

            Forget about playing on a golf course for now. If a golfer were to always hit a consistent draw, then eventually he’d end up where he started, like your circle theory. I know that’s a huge stretch and I’m not suggesting that’s the case here.

            I was simply trying to point out that nigh can also mean left and perhaps a searcher needs to make a left turn between meek and paddle.

            Take care……… Pinatubocharlie

          • That’s why I asked you to consider the EVER – you do NOT want to go in physical circles as you approach the END – JDA

  57. Perceptions can sure be different:

    “Look quickly down, your quest to cease,
    But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
    Just take the chest and go in peace.”

    FF had an art studio. The value is in the eye of the beholder and what they paid for it.

    The 3 lens of in contiguous : Look, tarry scant with marvel gaze.

    There are stories of famous artists paintings hanging on someone’s wall for generations or bought at an estate or garage sale not know the value of it.That once realized for what the painting actually is and by whom, nets the owner ( that realized this) millions of dollars.

    So, to me, But tarry scant with marvel gaze means such a scenario . This thing you are Marvel gazing at might just be of some value. Don’t be so quick to look away or past it. Check it out! It could be worth millions!

    The chest has been where it is for 7 years. I don’t read the need to hurry up and get the heck out of there. IMO. Just don’t quickly look and dismiss away a potential value from a visual marvel you encounter.

    Look, but don’t tarry scant with your marvel gaze upon something.

    That’s how I read it , anyways. IMO .

    • But tarry scant with marvel gaze = hey, delay a little and visually take in your surroundings.

      This (allegedly) is the spot where he was going to rest his bones—soak it in and when you are done, just take the chest and go in peace (possibly alluding back to leaving his bones where they lay).

      • Bowmar. That is how I perceive . The poem is instructions of what to do , not what not to do . IMO . It’s all forwards contiguous. What not to do is in the ATF comments. IMO .

  58. Seeker, the trajectory is your path to the treasure and has geometric consistency. The blaze falls on that trajectory. Without the trajectory, the blaze is useless because trajectory and blaze inform each other. Once you have both, you can find the treasure.

    • Ok,
      What about fenn’s comment; “Mr. Fenn: How far is the chest located from the blaze? ~ casey.”
      “Casey, I did not take the measurement, but logic tells me that if you don’t know where the blaze is it really doesn’t matter. If you can find the blaze though, the answer to your question will be obvious. Does that help?f.”

      Why would trajectory be needed at the point of finding the blaze? Fenn didn’t take a measurement… he just tells us the distance to the chest from the blaze will be obvious.

      Your saying; “the blaze is useless because trajectory and blaze inform each other.” Your calling the blaze useless and fenn is say it will be obvious…

      You don’t have to give locations… but how in your solution does fenn comment say, we need to figure out… well… anything- ? – once the blaze if found?

      • I’m saying the blaze is useless on it’s own. In other words, if all you have is the blaze (which you’ve discovered by some fluke or divine intervention), it will do you no good, because it won’t be obvious what to do next. You need to know the trajectory that precedes it before you can work out what comes next. If you have all that information “it” will be obvious.

        • Vox,
          It doesn’t matter if the blaze was found by a talking burning bush…
          You keep saying the same thing and not explaining. fenn said he didn’t measure anything… the distance to the chest from the blaze would be obvious… and your saying the blaze is useless with out a trajectory.
          Do I need to throw the blaze at a certain height with an exact velocity, calculated for one G force of gravity to the angle of the earth’s plane-?- to understand the distance that fenn said would be Obvious.

          Obvious; understood; clear, self-evident, or apparent.
          Apparently your theory is not obvious to me compared to fenn Q&A… what am I missing?

          • Seeker, if you look it up you will find a football field is 53 and 1/3 yards or 160 feet wide.

          • Sorry it doesn’t make sense to you, Seeker, but I’m not willing to reveal any more. You seem very concerned that my interpretation of FF’s words should align with yours, but clearly it doesn’t. I go by my reading of the poem and what I discover on the ground, and I am very content with my solution. I hope you are making progress, too.

        • Vox said ” if all you have is the blaze (which you’ve discovered by some fluke or divine intervention), it will do you no good”

          So if Mr Fenn (not explaining any clues) walked the average searcher to the blaze and pointed it out, you don’t think that they would have any chance of eventually finding the chest?


          • No, I really don’t, randawg, (unless they were clairvoyant).

            This is logical, IMO. If you’re FF, you probably don’t want anyone circumventing the process. Suppose someone accidentally reveals the blaze location; anyone who picks up on that could then go and retrieve the treasure – even if they were just lazy lurkers. That would completely ruin the Chase for Forrest and all the rest of us. This is why I say you need to go through the entire process so that you understand what to do when you get to the blaze.

          • Remember the person who actually does find the blaze will have to “go through the entire process” to get there. Thank you for your reply. 🙂

      • Hi Seeker.
        I can see that you and many searchers struggle with Mr Fenn’s comments which imply that the treasure is in close proximity to the blaze. It is my opinion that the treasure is located quite far from blaze (my guess is few miles). There is a simple way to resolve contradictions in Mr Fenn’s comments. In my opinion, these comments are not lies but only one side of two sided truth. Voxpops is right that the path does not end at the blaze.

        • That’s all well and good… can you explain why you think this? I mean, with fenn’s comment, it would seem; a few miles away wouldn’t be an obvious distance from the blaze to the chest.

          • Seaker,
            What if the phrase in poem ‘take the chest and go in peace’ doesn’t refer to the indulgence? Wouldn’t it nullify your notion that the treasure is close to the blaze? In my opinion, and from reading Mr Fenn’s scrapbooks , he knows that significant number of searchers were in the vicinity of blaze without realizing significance of the area. In my opinion, finding the blaze is very simple compared to solving the rest of the poem.

          • Why vox…..what has got you concerned?

            I hope I am not on your list…..*winks*….

            Good luck to you.

          • Tim, anyone savvy enough to consider less obvious interpretations of the poem’s words is someone I should be keeping an eye on. I wouldn’t be surprised to find your name going into my little black book, too… 🙂

          • LtleIndy ~ ‘What if the phrase in poem ‘take the chest and go in peace’ doesn’t refer to the indulgence?’

            What would it refer to?

        • It’s not a matter of struggling with Forresr’s comments. The poem itself says to look down at the blaze, your quest to cease. There is no ambiguity in that statement that I can see. And, yes, people have walked by the treasure because they did not recognize the blaze. I’ve heard nothing from Forrest to indicate that the blaze has been solved. Have you?

          • Vox…why not? The first clue is in the second stanza…why is that? Just wondering why that would be a problem.

          • Yes, IMO game over 2/3 the way through the poem. Is there something wrong with that?

          • Not if you have a viable solution as a result

            Mine also approaches its finale at the end of stanza 4, but to get there requires the use of all 6 stanzas (nothing excluded), and will “visit” stanza 4 more than once. However, stanzas 1, 5 and 6, play a vital role in the ending as well as during the body of the Chase.

            The only thing that would cause me to raise my eyebrows is if searchers are only using stanzas 2, 3, and 4 to find the solution.

          • Vox;

            I have found that stanza’s 1, 5 and 6 are essential at the beginning of ones solve. These three stanza’s tell the searcher where wwwh is.

            Forrest says something to the effect that the poem can be solved using only the clues (for me found in Stanza’s 2,3 and 4), but that the hints ( in stanza’s 1, 5 and 6) will help with the clues.

            This works for me, up until the final solve, when I need all 6 stanza’s.

            Just how I see it – JDA

          • Makes sense, JDA.

            My approach is a little different in that, aside from the hints in 1, 5, and 6, I also need those stanzas for actual clue solving – my solution would be nothing without them.

          • Game over 2/3rds of the way? Lol, could it be possible you are reading the poem correctly but not solving it correctly? It is possible that you pick up something at the blaze. Not the chest. You don’t look down at the blaze, that has never been said.
            Seeker, I finally disagree with you, I’m sure it won’t become a habit. That line in the poem, if some so tries to solve it this way, could be, “Just take the ( ‘c’ hest). See hest. F could be instructing someone to look up the word “hest”. An expression, saying, advice, whatever. You then have “and go” in peace. So, put the words “and go” in the word peace. p-a-g-e-n-o-a-d-c-e.
            You know me, that is why I had to post, “Just take the (see hest) page 133. The hest on page 133…
            Two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead. I know, but it is a way to solve, can’t say know, leads to a possibility of taking something other then the chest.
            Actually Seeker, now that I read more above, there is no agreeing or not with you, you are just asking a question, my bad. Take this as a possible example of reading line 16 where you are not taking the chest. So LIG, in starting to agree with what you posted, that someone may not be taking the chest at line 16, I could agree. With everything else you posted, not so much. Finding the blaze is probably the hardest thing to find, next to the chest. The blaze is close to the chest. And, it is one of the most important clues. Finding it in my opinion lets you know you are on the right track. Since it is meant to throw the searcher off, nothing about it will be easy.
            Tom B, solved yes, knowing it, no. Blaze could very well be the 4th clue. And by now, probably solved and known.
            And yes, I believe Vox is right that the end is not at the blaze.
            Cannot solve the poem only 2/3rds done. Solving the poem solves the clues. Following either of those precisely gets the chest. We can’t know what the clues are, so a poem solve is needed. Good luck solving the poem with 4 stanzas… With the right solve, the clues are second fiddle. They served their purpose, and will be recognized once you have the chest. With a correct solve, you can walk right to the chest, just like Forrest. You think Forrest really needs the clues, or can he walk right straight to it? Same thing for the person with the correct solve. Their path will be direct. People can put all their chips out trying to figure clues, who knows, maybe they’ll get lucky. I wonder if the clues are really that important to Forrest if he decided to go back out and retrieve the chest? Since for us the clues being solved goes hand in hand with the poem being solved, doesn’t solving the poem solve the clues? Does solving the clues, solve the poem? Someone remind me again what the clues are…

        • LtleIndianGrl – With FF’s comment look quickly down….your quest to cease, that sounds like the treasure is in close proximity to the blaze (at least within site distance of the blaze).

          I agree that the solve does not stop with the blaze but, in relative distance from the blaze, the solve is not far. There is more to the correct solve after the blaze that has to be correctly worked out in order to go to the spot. IMO

          • Hi Covert One,
            I think you taking it too literally. In my opinion  ‘look quickly down….your quest to cease’ means something completely different than what you read. Just think about it, how many different meanings this phrase can have.

        • hi LtleIndianGrl,

          You seem to have great insight regarding the blaze and wax on and on about it. Any chance a few pennies from heaven could entice you to reveal a bit more.

          • Windsurfer,
            I’m planing to publish it in the right time.
            At the moment I am not ready yet.

      • “…I did not take the measurement…”

        I always thought that was strange wording and if someone said that to me in person I would understand it to mean that if they didn’t take it, they gave it.

        I think it’s a good possibility that along with clues as to what the blaze is there may be measurement info as well. If you know what the blaze is, you should know what the measurement is, that sort of thing. Not saying that’s a given, but it’s certainly a reasonable interpretation of this.

        • Jeremy,
          I had a theory sorta matching just that… all the clues told of one location and when there, information found there, told exactly where the chest lays in wait.
          While the scenario is possible… there’s a problem… in my mind. Fenn said folks deciphered the first two clues and walked by the remaining ‘seven’ clues and the chest. IF there is more information outside the poem… wouldn’t it be misleading to consistently say 9 clues or 7 remaining clues, IF we need to pick up additional information along the way?
          I get your point… but it’s a big stretch for me unless someone can point out from the poem a indicator of the possibly. LOL… I could say Look quickly down [ at your feet ] to mean pacing out from the blaze. But, without a number dedicated in the poem for this purpose as one of the 9 clues… we just made a needed hypothetical 10th clue on site. That doesn’t sound like ‘ All the “information” to find the chest is in the poem ‘ line of thinking.

          One search stated the poem needs to be solve 4 or 5 times and others agree… that’s in upwards of 45 clues… How can ya wrap your head around a comment like that and not ask… WhaaaT? attempting to get some logical reasoning other than… ‘ it works for me’ answer.
          I mean, fenn has even called the clues he gave out on the today show as useless clues. And has repeated we need to follow the clues in the poem… that contains 9 clues.

          • In my opinion if you decipher the first 2 clues you can easily get to the area where the blaze is, and this is what happened to these searchers mentioned by Mr Fenn. The mentioned searchers passed the area of the blaze without realizing significance of it. I know of at least one person from this blog that has done that.
            On the second issue above, clues vs hints. I can relate to people who see more than 9 clues in the poem. Just take a look at a hypothetical scenario where the blaze is described by 4 objects in its vicinity. In my opinion Mr Fenn would concider this as one clue but to a searcher this might look like 4 clues.

          • Seeker, I think a lot of people kind of “lawyer” the statements Fenn has made and put requirements on finding the treasure that aren’t necessarily there.

            If it turns out that the blaze is a big sign out in the woods somewhere that says “1 mile ahead”, and the poem got you to that sign, that’s completely compatible with the statement that “all the information you need to find the chest is in the poem”. There’s a chain of discovery there where the implicit information of “1 mile ahead” is directly from, and reliant on, the explicit information found in the poem. The poem is the source of that information no matter how you slice that pie, because you can’t divorce it’s meaning or how you obtained it from the poem itself. It’s not standalone. It’s all fruit of the same tree.

            Consider where you’d be if you followed the statement “all the information you need to find the chest is in the poem” to the absurd levels that some suggest. You couldn’t even read the darn thing because the information required to parse the English language is not, itself, crammed into the 24 lines. We all apply a looser interpretation of that statement, to varying degrees, than to what was strictly said.

            Heck, the only information I need to find the treasure chest is contained in the one line: “I can keep my secret where…” because that information motivates me to say, “Nope. I’m gonna find it!” All additional information follows from that.

        • Jeremy…good thought, and I often look at that ” measurement…” comment. To me…it seems to say that the measurement is not necessary. The poem has put the searcher in the correct location by another means. A visual set of directions…that cannot be mistaken.

          • Ken – I think also that a measurement from the blaze to the TC is not required / provided. There is other information that takes a searcher there IMO.

      • Hi Seeker…..et al….

        IMO – Trajectory and distance are not related in this hunt.

        First off…trajectory requires something to be airborn or moving in a arch like way, thus possibly adding additional distance.

        Distance is a straight line measurement.

        I’d define your details more, if you are using trajectory as part of the equation of distance. I’d add distance.

  59. JD. I see validity in your approach to solving the poem in that you have identified a geographic area in which you believe the chest is located and are eliminating possibilities. This will pay off in the end if you are persistent and if your chosen search area is correct. I would not really call it a circle theory, however. I see it as Seeker alluded to – starting from the beginning after a failed search. I see nothing wrong with that, however, if you are convinced that your general search area is correct.

    • My approach is basically the same. I have a general area where I believe the clues and treasure are located, and I will stay there unless something convinced me that my general area is wrong.

  60. Vox,

    ” trajectory and blaze inform each other.”
    Sorry but I have to ask….since the blaze ‘falls’ on the trajectory, is this some kind of nine clues pillow-talk.

    • I just mean that you can’t find the blaze without the trajectory, and you can’t complete the trajectory without the blaze. So yes, I suppose they are sweethearts in that they complete each other. 🙂

  61. Colokid, I’m not solving the poem 4-5 times – that’s my estimate of the minimum number of BOTG trips that are required to be able to complete the task.

    What I have found is that certain clues reappear in slightly different guises as you move towards the end game. There comes a time when you’ve exhausted all the poem’s “formal” clue solutions, but you still haven’t reached the finale. That’s when you need to “fly solo.” You use the patterns and logic you’ve already mastered to develop the final part of the “drawing” without the aid of defined instructions. What you then discover on the ground generates further information that is augmented by the reapplication of certain elements from the poem.

    It’s something that’s very difficult to describe unless you’ve been through the process. Imagine that you’ve gradually worked your way to the point where you’re brave and in the wood, but there’s no treasure. However, you’ve discovered certain things along the way that confirm your trajectory. So now you have a choice. You can quit on the basis that the Chase is a hoax or you’re deluded, forget all you’ve discovered and start over, or use your imagination and logic to tunnel your way out of the impasse.

    If you decide to carry on, what do you have to go on? Ostensibly, you’ve used up all the poem’s information. But if you stop and reflect, you realize there were one or two additional hints in there all along. You intuit your next move. After mistakes and adjustment you make a new breakthrough, discovering something that you know is important. Now, if you reapply the appropriate clue you can move with confidence again.

    The beauty of this is that as you approach the grand finale, the revelations become more and more enlightening. They “illuminate” your path so that you can cease your quest with confidence. It’s part of the real beauty of the way the Chase has been designed, IMO.

    • Vox,
      OK I misunderstood you’re conversation with JD and possibly some of your other search posts. I thought you were agreeing with him that there was an iterative solution with multiple WWH, HOB, etc.

      Perhaps it’s semantics but when you say: “Ostensibly, you’ve used up all the poem’s information. But if you stop and reflect, you realize there were one or two additional hints in there all along. You intuit your next move. After mistakes and adjustment you make a new breakthrough, discovering something that you know is important.”

      I don’t get the concept of ‘using up all the poems information’. Isn’t it a matter of just solving it correctly one time? How do you ‘use it up’?

      Your follow-on words seems to indicate that all you are really doing is; stepping back, correcting a faulty assumption, and then going forward again. Maybe it’s me but this is confusing.

      • Yes, I realize it must seem confusing. I’ll try to clarify.

        Once you have WWWH nailed down, there is a way to extract coordinates from the poem. There is a finite number of those in the poem. Originally, I thought that once you’d solved them all you’d have the treasure, but I now know that they can only take you so far. Once you reach the end of the poem, you’re pretty much on your own. That’s when, in one sense, things get easier (no more poem coordinates to solve), but your reliance on imagination and logic goes up a notch. You need to look back at where you’ve been and then extrapolate.

        The process of extrapolation is to some extent hit and miss until you’ve understood the new dynamic. It’s both frustrating and exciting at the same time, because where before you had a handrail, that’s gone, and you’re now walking the edge of the precipice blind. Everything depends on the accuracy of your previous work… you may stumble a few times!

        • Vox,
          Hopefully you will agree that F has stated that there are 9 clues and that if you solve those, these will take you to the treasure. You agree?

          What i’m hearing you say is that you have determined coordinates (finite=nine ??) and that after following this trail of 9 you are being dumped off (abandoned by clue info) and now you have to figure out the rest of the solution yourself?

          If I have this correct, it certainly seems counter to F’s repeated suggestions about being taken directly to the chest. ‘Hit and miss’ sounds like just trying to stumble over it…to me.

          • No, hit and miss is adapting to not being spoon-fed. You have to learn how to do it yourself. Once you’ve worked that out, you become more adept, and you start to make the vital discoveries that propel you toward the end point.

            Very few people will see things my way, but I’m quite happy about that! 😉

    • Dang, Voxpops, I couldn’t have said it myself!!!!! I 100% agree with your comment to Colokid.
      I wonder if you are focusing on the same keyword as I. Hmmm.

        • Yup Vox, I see it very similar. My only deviation from your thought is the coordinates get you to 8 clues. The key and deciphering the 9th clue take you to the chest. At that point I agree with the kid. Solving the poem gets you the chest, the 9 clues, correctly, gets you the chest. But I see what you are saying and feel close to the same way you feel. We would just disagree on the “still more to do after the poem and the 9 clues” thing. If you said 8 clues, and still more to do after that, I would totally agree.
          The one good thing I like about your thought, obviously trying to solve the poem, leaves guessing to a minimum to not at all. I see your gears turning Vox.

    • Ok, I don’t agree with the trajectory comments prior to the Blaze. I believe that if you know the blaze the poem refers to, then you are as good as done… Just take the chest. One word in TTOTC book confirms it for myself.

      • Gentleman,

        May I inquire into what kind of coordinates you may be referring to?

        To what specificity are your “coordinates”?

        Because to locate a hiding spot in the Rocky Mountains for a 500 cubic inch box … … is well … …. very specific. To say the 5th decimal place.


        • GCG, feet are also involved, from one place to another. There is a backup to the backup, if you will. The coordinates in my opinion only get you so far, the coordinates do not get you the chest. There is still work to do, on a more specific scale, IMO. The poem leads you to within one foot of the chest. IMO. This is why I think it is hidden and not buried. If you are off by one foot when digging, it’s is very likely you could miss it. I don’t think f intended for the person who solved everything and went to the spot to go home empty handed. It’s probably very well hidden, but buried, hard to believe. Unless you consider foliage.

      • Hi Slurbs,
        I don’t agree with your statement ‘then you are as good as done… ‘. In my opinion, from the blaze there are still about 4 clues to be solved to get indulgence. If the solution to the poem was as simple as your statement ‘just take the chest….’, someone would have found the treasure long time ago . In my opinion, from the blaze, you still have to cover few miles to get the treasure.

        • Hi LtleIndianGrl,
          This is just my opinion, but I totally agree. In my current solve, and there for my opinion, wise and the blaze are two different points. They point to another and from there to the treasure. Measure to the chest is from yet another point. It sounds more complicated than it is.

        • LtlIndianGrl, I don’t agree with this opinion of yours….”If the solution to the poem was as simple as your statement ‘just take the chest….’, someone would have found the treasure a long time ago.

          Not sure how or why some can jump to a conclusion like this.

          • Fundamental Design,
            First of all all of below is just my opinion.
            Mr Fenn in one of his scrapbooks is telling us that a significant number of searchers got stuck in around the blaze area. From this you can deduct that the area was searched thoroughly with no success. Secondly, the blaze is in the middle of the poem, there are at least 4 clues past it and in my opinion they are more difficult to solve than the prior 4 or 5.
            I cannot reply to your comment above. The reply button is missing.
            You are asking ‘What would it refer to?’.
            I know this is a lame excuse but I can’t pop it out open on the Web yet. I am planning to release more of my solution but not until closer to spring 2018.

          • LIG, I’m in the dark that the actual blaze area has been searched thoroughly.

            And off the top of my head f has told us the clues get progressively easier after the first one.

          • Ltleind,

            You said: “Mr Fenn in one of his scrapbooks is telling us that a significant number of searchers got stuck in around the blaze area.”

            I’d love to read that SB. Which one are you referencing?

    • VOX

      I understand exactly what you are saying however I would caution you as I caution myself:

      Forest has said that the correct interpretation of the 9 successive clues will lead the searcher precisely to the treasure’s location or to at least 12’ from it…

      Your interpretation of the 9 clues should be very very clear directions layed out on a map.

      Otherwise you could be perpetually fooling yourself rather than actually adapting and instead irrationally trying to force the poems outcome…

      Good luck and speaking from experience- safety first and foremost.


      • GCG, you’re absolutely right to caution about specificity. To draw the correct trajectory, you need to be within a very few feet of each point. As for the ending… well, there’s a twist in the tail! (IMO, of course).

  62. Hi all when you know ,you go in smiling ,you come out grinning !!!you will walk right to the TC there will be no doubt imo and now we wate on Mother Nature .Clint

  63. Page 131 and 132 TTOTC…” So I wrote a poem containing nine clues that if followed precisely, will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure.”
    There is nothing in that written statement that makes me believe that the game is not over after figuring out what the “nine clues” mean. In desperation I suppose I could postpone the inevitable(wrong solve) by talking myself into believing otherwise…and wasting resources on a hope.
    Fenn also never said anything about getting to within 12′ of the treasure.
    His comment about 12′ was a response to a ridiculous assumption.
    What scale is the map folks are using for plotting their coordinates?/trajectories? Is there a directive in the poem that explicitly tells this? I would imagine that would be crucial in plotting a course.
    I’m sticking with the basics…I do love my very comprehensive map collection too!

      • What exactly do you mean vox? Are you saying “the mirror” has something to do with the poem? This seems to be a good example of not using the tools Fenn has warned us to use… TTOTC, GE and/or a good map.

    • Mr. Ken-

      I think you should try Smoots. I also note from your picture that you might need some dental work. You might want to talk to my deputy in so much as she has some experience in that line of work.

      Best regards;
      1 f Billy

  64. James,
    True…. I don’t have a quote with ‘only’ in it. Good one… you really GOT me. I’m so embarrassed!

    You said: “ff said there are nine clues in the poem… he never said we “Only need nine!” did he? just clarifying here. why can’t there be more?”

    Well I suppose you can hide behind ‘IMHO’ and speculate anything you want but I thought a clever guy like you could understand the meaning of these quotes:
    “There are nine clues in the poem and if you can figure out THOSE clues they will take you to the treasure chest and you can have it.” F and “…can find the treasure if they can decipher the clues in the poem”f. “Those clues”….”in the poem”…”find the treasure if they can decipher the clues”.

    Since I believe Mr Fenn I don’t need to be spoon fed the word only. He’s plainly saying there are 9 clues, and if you want to find the treasure all you need to do is solve the clues in the poem….other info not necessary. Not sure why this concept is so tough for you. Is there no fenn quote you can accept at face value?

    I think the problem here is that you don’t believe much of what Forrest says. One has to wonder why you even think there is a treasure. Here’s some quotes:

    Forrest: “The poem is straight forward with no subterfuge in sight.”…”…no Tomfoolery…”
    You: “One has to remember that Forrest makes you believe one thing while he tells you another”
    Forres: “The CE5 phrase on the treasure chest is of no value to searchers. ff ”
    You: “I take this another way. “… Is of NO value…” Actually means “… Is of ALL value…”
    You: “I want to say that Mr. Fenn is suggesting we look for 5 keys as described by CE.” And of course no credible reasoning is presented.

    So James…the ball’s back over the fence to you. Why don’t you believe what Fenn says? Why do you believe that everything he says is an opposite….any real basis? Why do you directly contradict his unambiguous statements? If you think he’s lying just come out and say so. Then we’ll know where you really stand.

    No fair hiding behind ‘IMHO’. You could use that phrase and claim that the earth is flat or tell us pigs fly.

    No skirting the issue.

    • Here ya go again Colokid… is it just me who can’t use IMHO. That’s Dal’s rule so to speak. Or did you tell everyone they are “hiding behind” IMHO? Wow… talk about bold statements. Ok everyone… y’all ALL listen to the KID here. It’s “not fair to hide behind IMHO”.

      Also, You said,”Why do you believe that everything he says is an opposite…”. Did I say that? Nope. I certainly don’t believe that as a whole. Strike 3 cause you CERTAINLY didn’t hit a home run with suck a false accusation.

      “Everything” is an absolute. Never said that. Never said ff is lying either. Never would. Maybe you should go back to an idea of “reading comprehension” of what exactly people on the blog write. So … Quote me exact again please or are we in another one of those _____ (I can’t do it) moments again. Please… I’m asking you. Give me where I said those exact words. Maybe you and Goofy can dig a little more together. My feelings ain’t hurt either. I just like letting YOU know when YOU make up accusations of what others say isn’t right.

      You’re interpreting and making fictional stuff up again on my words to try and leave me the ball.

      Maybe we should switch to racketball references (as I’m sure you’ll have something to say about that’s the way my brain works… bouncing all around or some BULL like that) as that’s what game we’re up to now because you just stuck out playing baseball. But let me warn you … Racketball is a little more strategic than baseball (if you haven’t played before)

      But speaking of games… oh never mind… you have a hard enough time with… I take that back… You’re my blog opposite…. I will give it to you.

      He goes… keep up… think about why Forrest told a story on “grinding marbles” and “whittling yo-you and spinning tops” during class. He got 10 cents for the marbles and 25 cents for the other 2 toys spending 20 and saving 5 cents. (10) (20) and (5) are significant. Now normally I would put IMHO behind this but you won’t let me.

      Oh, why are those numbers significant?

      • James,

        Racketball, yo-yo’s, marbles? Man are you all over the map tonite.

        I gave you a specific set of quotes to deal with in the post. Care to address those or are we in for more hand waving, tap-dancing, and skirting of the issue?

        • ColoKid. Yet you don’t criticize someone like Vox when talking about mirrors. What a constant effort you put forward. Equal to all I see.

          Ok. Here goes.

  65. Searchers, I posted some information over at nine clues. I would appreciate what you think. Thanks in advance.

    • Sorry DPT….I normally don’t venture out to other communities, just to eleviate some of the noise.

      Why not repost it here?


  66. Sparrow looks both ways and whispers very quietly: “There is a lot of talk about trajectories and so forth. That’s all well and good. But did you know that the census for Thermopolis, Wyoming in 2010 was 3,009 people? Does that number sound familiar to you? Shhhhh.” (looks both ways again) “OK, you can get back to trajectories again now”.

      • Lug—-

        I really don’t know. I would imagine that in 2010 the sign most likely said “population: 3,009” but I’m sure the population has changed by now.

        I’ve never been there but I’ve heard the people of Thermopolis are very warm. I hope to visit one day.

  67. In all my searches after nearly 7 years, I must say that I have never bothered with trying to sort out 9 clues. If your efforts take you to the treasure what difference does it make whether you used 9000 clues or 9 clues to get there. It actually feels more like 9000 to me because I believe that every single word in the poem is critical and has multiple meanings and there are more than 9 words in the poem so there. In fact, I would say that if your solve only has one meaning for each word, then it is probably not a winner. Just my opinion.

    I can actually make a pretty strong argument that the 9 clues that Mr. Fenn refers to all relate to the same place so whether you know only the first clue or all nine you quite possibly can find the treasure. This is just a hypothesis and IMO, but don’t leave the blaze at home.

    • Windsurfer, I think arguing about the number of clues is a distraction. We need to just go where the poem tells us to go!

    • Windsurfer,
      Sure….when people are struggling to solve this problem they want to believe there is more information. That’s kind of hopeful human nature. But I would ask this. If there is a clue hiding under every word and statement, than why would Forrest even bother mentioning 9 clues so specifically? If he really wanted to make this much more difficult, why not just post the poem and tell us to have at it with no directions at all? Why would he say one thing specifically, tell us he’s not fibbing, tell us he’s being very straight forward, but actually want us to find 9000 other things? Kind of sounds like a lot of people really don’t buy the premise as he’s laid it out. If a person doesn’t buy the central premise, how do they choose what else is true and what isn’t? It’s a very slippery slope.

      I’m thinking along the lines he told us. He structured the poem with a finite amount of information….either a minimum or a fair amount he felt would get us there. Hasn’t he clearly stated the boundary conditions…nine clues, 4 hints to the clues in the book if you can find them? When he says he’s committed to NOT giving out additional clues why don’t people accept that ?

      Just wondering cause I don’t get it.

      • hey Colokid,

        Thanks for your thoughts. This has been my experience. The most frustrating yet telling word in the poem for me has been the word “title”. It means “heading”. So I give you “heading” to the gold…

        I have had a number of searches that upon completing the clues and getting to this last line, simply provided a directional new heading to a completely new solve. Even more frustrating is that I developed solutions on GE and BOTG that matched the words and even the pictures in the TTOTC scrapbooks. For this reason, whenever I had a new solve worked out in my mind, I always worked on a new solve from that point while waiting until I had
        BOTG just to stay ahead of the game. Sure there may be just 9 clues in the end, but I believe they need to be physical things you see when on site. So how does one find the physical clues without being on site?

        Are you saying that searchers should stay home until they have 9 specific clues written down on a piece of paper before they go? I remember quite some time back when Goofy posted that only the first two clues could be solved at home and then you needed to be on site. At first I wondered how it could even be accomplished. My experiences since, have me agreeing with Goofy.

        • Wind,
          I subscribe to Goofy’s thinking pretty heavily. I may have coined the phrase “Two and out the door” as a solution type. I also believe you ‘probably’ need to be BOTG to know/recognize at least some of the clues. I see a lot of room for hybrid solutions around this.

          Where we part thinking is the SB pictures. I guess this falls under the heading of needing more than nine clues issue. Everyone want’s to interpret the pictures differently so that should tell us some or all of them are wrong.

          People say they don’t want to count clues, or worry about what’s a clue, or clues are a distraction. Here’s the problem with that: knowing what the clues are and then figuring out what they mean is the whole game. How much energy on the blog was put into arguing about the first clue? Everyone thought it was something different. Now we know what it is and people still want to argue over it. Begin=begin. This sends a clear message to me about how to read Fenns language.

          • I think I coined the saying begin= begin…lol.

            Anyway, I can’t help but point out that I’ve never read about a searcher with botg finding something out there that couldn’t be found at home. I’m referring to the clue solutions 1-9. Of course, there’s little odds and ends that searchers report but seem to fail a test in one way or another. Just a thought.

          • Fundy,
            ” I’ve never read about a searcher with botg finding something out there that couldn’t be found at home.”

            I’m not sure I’ve even read a solution where someone gave this a go (starting with just 2) so that’s probably why we don’t hear about anybody finding something BOTG. I still think it can’t ALL be solved armchair. That’s the best insurance Forrest could have to prevent short-cutting the solve.

            I’ve done it both ways with similar results. Ha

          • Colokid,

            I think we agree on the SB pictures. Every solve I had that matched perfectly with the SB story and pictures ended up a fail. I began to use this as a new method by which to eliminate solutions. Remember Mr. Fenn indicated TTOTC wrote itself so it is not surprising to me to find all these images on GE. It does point to his brilliance however particularly when the images are family photos. Did he somehow manipulate the GE images to match?

            I think the poem works like the circling pattern aircraft do when getting in line to land at a major airport. As you go through each circle, the words in the poem can take on different meanings. For example, ” As I have gone alone in there” may become. “As I half-gone a low knee in theair” as you circle closer to the final landing pattern. It’s just a different way to interpret things. I am not suggesting it works, but I am unblemished by success with other means as well.

        • Windsurfer,

          Above you said, “Sure there may be just 9 clues in the end, but I believe they need to be physical things you see when on site. So how does one find the physical clues without being on site?”

          You can solve all of the clues without being on site. Remember the poem is a map of sorts, Using GE/good map, and some knowledge of Geography and a little imagination will lead you to the treasure.

          I believe F said something to the effect, (not a quote) You need to solve all of the clues if you can’t you might as well stay home. Above you said, “…Goofy posted that only the first two clues could be solved at home and then you needed to be on site”. What I take from that is your going to listen to another searcher instead of what F says. You should ask yourself, did Goofy solve the poem? Of course not as far as we all know.

          I most certainly believe in the poem and all of the clues can be solved without leaving home. I for one am not going to put botg unless the clues are solved to retrieve the treasure. Just having the first 2 clues figured out and putting botg to find the other 7 is a huge crap shoot and a waste of time and grasping a straws.

          All of course is my opinion.

          • CharlieM,

            This one doesn’t give you any pause for thought?
            – How much progress can be made by someone just thinking and searching the Internet from home? (Another way of saying this: How many clues can only be decoded in situ?)

            FF: “All of them, in theory, but not likely in practice. A searcher must go to the site to find the treasure.”

            Some try to wave this one off by saying; ‘well of course you have to go out and pick the treasure up’ but is that really the message?

          • hi CharlieM,

            Thanks for the reply. When I first saw the comment from Goofy, my reaction was why would anyone even attempt a search BOTG with only 2 clues in hand. How it has played out for me is that I had a complete solution using GE at home and one good physical clue the HOB from which to anchor the rest to. Once I got to BOTG it was a whole different story. I am sure other searchers can relate that nothing appears as it does on GE. At that point the searcher must find physical features that match the clues. The feature I found next on that ground was the ? (question mark). It always struck me as odd that the poem had a ? mark in the text. First time I ever saw that in a poem. From there a little imagination helped to identify other physical features that I felt matched the clues in the poem. Taking plenty of pictures and directing them later much like folks do with GE at home is also helpful. I am still WOC however. Without chest. Just a little bit of some methodology. As far as 9 clues go, as I indicated above one solution on the ground took me to the statement “I give you title to the gold” and the next place to start a new solve. I am close to linking 9 of these together I think. I am not sure about the number of links because I do not spend time counting clues. I do listen to the poem however. For example here are some thoughts for “in the wood”

            1. in the wood
            2. in the water
            3. in the word
            4. Inuit

            You now see what I mean about sounding out the entire poem to get new meaning. Maybe this is what Mr. Fenn alluded to when he mentioned something about 60,000 links. It is fun to see what you can come up with but it makes your brain become a rats nest. No one said it would be easy. This is why I do not count clues.

          • Colokid,

            He doesn’t say when you have to go to find the treasure. In the end you do have to go find the chest, it is small.

            Not likely, but not impossible to have a theory that works and be done at home.

            I believe we all know its about getting out and enjoying the beauty. The chest is the driving force, after all is said and done we’ll hopefully continue to explore.

          • I couldn’t agree more and is something I recently opined about here recently. Didn’t get much traction and I’m not sure why. Why would Forrest want that poor Texas redneck spending his money needlessly if the only way to solve the poem after the first 2 clues was BOTG.

            Makes exactly ZERO sense to me. But what do I know? Make that we, if you don’t mind CharlieM.


          • Kid,

            I’ll see your quote and raise you one.

            “And I said my audience is every red neck in Texas that has a pickup job, he lost his job, has a wife and eight kids and needs….”

            I’ve raised this question before and don’t recall anyone answering, so can you please explain how someone with 8 kids and NO JOB can afford to search at all, never mind 5, 10, 50 times? I don’t think the red neck can UNLESS he’s solved it from home and knows exactly where the TC is hidden.

            Our two quotes are clear examples where he contradicts himself IMO.


        • Windsurfer—can you explain and/or reference your “heading” interpretation of the word title?

      • Colo…you said it in your first and second sentence…human nature. I am surprised on a regular basis in my every day surroundings how many folks believe the rules/guidelines do not apply to them.
        I say…kick the unsuccessful solve to the curb…and move on. I know I personally wasted a ton of time on some early notions, only to learn later on that I was hanging on to a hope that was misguided by not “listening” to what Fenn says.
        Am I any closer today? Who knows…I believe that the “correct” solve of the first few clues will lead to that “AHA” moment…and the pieces will come together. I always “keep” in mind that Fenn said that solving the first clue is half way…and no…I do not think that implies a distance.

        • ken,
          Yeah, I know….human nature….’there must be something he didn’t tell’.

          It’s funny how we all search different. You have these people that mine the same area with a fine tooth comb for years just positive it’s there if they only turn over one more rock.

          Then there’s me. When I go out all convinced I’m on to something I usually step out of the car and go ‘crap….this is not what I was expecting’. Never gone back to the same place twice ’cause I always find reality doesn’t line up with expectation.

          • Hi Colokid,
            I’m replying here to your comment above because the Reply button is missing in the above thread.
            You said ‘ I’d love to read that SB. Which one are you referencing?’ After a bit of hesitation I’ve decided to tell. I don’t have the number handy but the title is something like ‘The attraction of pickles ‘

          • LtleIn,
            That seems to be about a fishing lure….nothing there having to do with searchers near the blaze.

  68. Hope you don’t mind Dal because this really doesn’t have anything to do with the Chase.

    On the 14th my wife and I celebrate our 43rd anniversary AND we just paid off our mortgage today! Yahooooooo.

    A little more spending money to Chase is always a nice thing. Plus, the new book should arrive in a few days hopefully.


    • Thank you much Sparrow.

      It feels REAL good to be able to say you own your home. Not sure how or why she’s put up with me though for 43 years, however, she is a lot smarter than me.

      Yeah, that’s it. I’m like a counterweight, keeping things in balance. Hum, maybe that didn’t come out right.


  69. I believe that the there are a few that have figured out 8 of the clues. What I am most certain of is that most of the poem relates to 2 places like wwwh, hoB. Some of the others are a description of the area below the hoB, such as there is a creek, no place for the meek, water high.

    The one thing that stands out is the blaze, it’s a thing, not a place or a description. It is the one thing that you have to be wise, as in smart, to figure out. People have walked right by because they didn’t know what the blaze is. I can reasonably believe that the blaze is a guess by most. The most focus is on the blaze, because there is no description as to what it is.

    I see absolutely no reason to twist the words or add numbers or any thing else. The 1st & 5 stanzas has no hidden clues, etc, take the words for what they are saying.

    I do believe F had no intention to overly complicate things in the poem except for the blaze. I listen to what the poem is saying, and not mess with the poem in any way. Sure F is somewhat vague as to wwwh and the hoB and there are no tales on the blaze in the poem.

    As I said, the one thing that is preventing people from going home with the treasure is the blaze. Its the reason the poem says, “If you’ve been wise….”

    I have to be stubborn about thinking otherwise and my current solve would be hard to dispute, except, just maybe, the blaze. The situations that I have are preventing me from botg. I’m here on this blog for one thing only and this to try to dispute my solve and the blaze. I have to admit there is the entertainment also.

    Naturally all is my opinion.

    • So charlie M – As I said, the one thing that is preventing people from going home with the treasure is the blaze. Its the reason the poem says, “If you’ve been wise….” So, my frienf what does “if you’ve been wise” mean to you?

      Wish hummm? Wise like an owl perhaps? Well, how is an owl wise? For one thing, it always chooses the highest perch possible from which to observe its prey. Might this be a hint? Should a searcher ensure that he has a high vantage point when observing any potential blaze? MAYBE that is the reason that the next line says “Look quickly down….”

      If, let’s say, your blaze is a waterfall. If you stand at the bottom of the waterfall, and look up at it, and then “Look quickly down what will you see? Only the splash of the falls at the bottom. If, on the other hand, you view the waterfall from above, and then “Look quickly down…” what do you see? the bottom of the falls, PLUS the stream or creek or river is it meanders down the valley floor – Quite a different view. Perspective is everything – JDA

      • JDA,

        I guess you didn’t pay a attention to what I wrote about my definition of wise.

        Thanks for the owls, not really needed, its just a saying. We all have theories what is wrong with that, reminder this the Chase. 🙂

    • Funny thing about Owls… their myths are legend, even god like. The Owl is more than a good hunter, but is also know as the gate keeper… The Owl represents sacred knOwlege. The Owl’s eye can focus from telescopic to Microscopic and have perfect hearing. Owls as a totem, connect with the universe and awareness of the lunar cycles.

      True Seeing
      Ancient Wisdom
      Power of Silence
      Attention to Details
      ~ “Seeing the Big Picture”

      Well… That’s what I read about them anyways.

        • I’m not sure the Big Picture means a view from a perch, as mush as, down the road thoughts.
          Could mean both, depending on how anyone looks at the poem with the use of “wise” and “found”

          Other words, such as, Riches meaning Knowledge. Wise meaning Knowledge, Answers meaning knowledge, seek, secret, effort, already know etc… all seem to relate to knowledge of some form or another.

          If every word was deliberate as fenn stated… Wise to me seems a bit more important then just being clever enough to solve the poem to this point or involving an elevation or a carving of a bird.

    • CharlieM,

      IMO if, and that’s a BIG IF, the searchers who were within 200’ were actually in true SEARCH mode, then they did not find indulgence because the grand master magician, Mr. Fenn himself, fooled them into thinking they were actually at the correct blaze.

      Again, I submit to the HoD that nothing is as it seems. I’m not saying those searchers were not close, I’m saying they saw the obvious. This has got to be the blaze so all I have to do is look quickly down and there it will be. Not so fast. I’m not saying it’s not there, I’m just saying MAYBE they didn’t do what they were told.

      There’s only one person who knows if I’m in the right nebula, let alone the right star system. I simply,think those other “guys” missed something important.


      • I agree PC.
        It’s possible that they walked in the wrong direction from the blaze, or that they were in the right area and didn’t find ‘Any’ blaze at all (correct or otherwise).


  70. Perhaps the blaze is very small and you need to be in a certain place in order to find it. I still have no clue why some have been within 200 feet and not found it. Maybe they were not confident in their location or they were looking for something larger.

    • Trill……,

      I would be inclined to think they didn’t know what the blaze was, and walked right by it.

    • ThrillSeeker: I don’t think the blaze can be ~too~ small since Forrest said it is not feasible to remove it (or words to that effect). Not on computer so don’t have the exact quote.

        • Oh yea, I remember that he said it isn’t feasible to remove, now. Thanks for keeping me on track.

          • To try… Was my point.
            Small or large, there might be a reason for not attempting to remove it.

          • My current theory is that his blaze is part of a property that is geologically unique.
            I had been there twice but the terrain proved too difficult for my frail body to do a search. I gave Cynthia directions. I hope that she comes back with a story, and the treasure.

    • I think it may be as simple as misinterpreting the 3rd clue and then being way off base for the remaining 6 clues.

  71. Anyone who will offer a thought:

    If there is a home of Brown, then logically there also must be a BROWN right?

    Just thinking out loud here, but I wonder if BROWN is the blaze?

    Any ideas?


    • Franklin,

      I think you may be on to something as the search nears the end. Circling in as if going down a drain getting tighter and tighter could end up with WWWH,HOB,Meek,Creek,WH,WIse,Blaze and all the rest right on top of one another in Circle 9 and all completely separate and distinct in Circle 1. Of course Circle 9 is the final one to locate the chest, but you need to go through Circles 1-8 in order to realize 9 fully.

      How is that for a difficulty factor? I have no idea if it is actually structured that way, but it sure feels like it could be.

      • Yes it could, because the TC is still out there. I have an opinion that home of Brown might also contain the blaze, as well as Brown. I see the final solution getting more compressed. Just my opinions – Franklin

    • I am decidedly opinioned in that of Brown and the blaze as being separate clues in the poem and at different geographic locations. IMO .

      • One possibility that I’m wondering about is that there is the ATF statement that if he told you where HOB is you would go right to Indulgence. What if HOB is a larger geographical area? A mountain, valley, whatever, but some place large enough that you could easily put the remaining clues into. Then if you went to HOB you would technically be where the treasure is, but not close enough to find it easily. Then HOB and the blaze could be considered to be in the same place, but after finding HOB you would still need the 3rd stanza to lead you to the blaze within it.

        A part of me doesn’t want to accept this way of looking at HOB though, since my silly solution has HOB as an outhouse. Why am I so convinced of this? Because outhouses are know to explode and the capital B clearly is a hint to refer to the large BOOM that would result. I rest my case.

        • JW, I’m not actually trying to sell you my book but there is a section in it where I talk about Forrest telling me HOB cannot be a structure. In my search story I was telling him about one of my searches (2014, I think); my hob was an old abandoned CCC cabin. I also talk about another searcher who used an Indian ruin as her hoB, and he told her the same thing. No structures.

          • I know Forrest said the treasure was not associated with a structure. I never heard him say “home of brown is not a structure. Thank you for sharing that. Very interesting.

          • Thank you Cynthia,
            The outhouse comment was tongue in cheek. I should get over my aversion to emojis since my humor isn’t funny enough to be detected most of the time.

            The comment in my first paragraph about HOB being a large area (many acres, maybe even a square mile) that the remaining clues are contained within is how I am currently looking at things.

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