The Thrill of the Chase…the Book

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Please click on the comment balloon below to add to the discussion of Forrest’s book entitled The Thrill of the Chase.

Please do not use this area for any other discussion.

Thanks

dal…

236 thoughts on “The Thrill of the Chase…the Book

  1. Has anyone tried folding the pages of the book to find hidden imagery using the graphics as a guide as to where and how to fold?
    (I ask as a formerly avid reader of Mad Magazine.)

  2. All,
    Our most current count of hints in TTOTC:
    32 hints in the book, not counting the “Gold and More” chapter.
    About a dozen hints in “Gold and More”, not counting the poem.
    About a dozen more hints in the poem, not counting (of course) the 9 clues. And we are reading TTOTC again to see if we missed any.
    Happy Thanksgiving week, and Safe Searching, everyone!
    Geoff
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

  3. At the close of that last session of this thread, the discussion of “THE BOOK” things were tense, well Mr Terrific will stay out of this one, I am, after all simply a silly stick figure, who can’t afford a Turquoise Belt Buckle and lately sill me, I have even (haunted) by a Troll who watches my videos on youtube then post uncomplimentary, unflattering and down right insulting comments. Are we not better than that?

    At almost a thousand views and climbing perhaps it was worth the cold and the criticism by one small minded “Troll” of an individual, obviously many others have enjoyed it.

    It would sure be nice to remind everyone that we come here for fun and an education in street learning from a knowledgeable group, and especially a pro like ff, so to me we need to lose the kind of backbiting rhetoric and help each other by actually giving something out, something useful, there is not much I conceal about my solve, it may not be correct, but if any part of it is used by the one who solves this poem then I will feel vindicated for allowing what most would consider and keep as a SECRET..Share your thoughts, because no one has very much of this figured out yet.

    Just for comic relief if I asked you all to state ONE word you feel is a definite or possible hint what would say?

    I think it is Borders…..What say YE?

    TT

      • OS2, now we are getting somewhere, is a mark a Blaze or is Brilliant a Blaze?

        List is what a ship does when it is in trouble, just sayin.

        TT

      • OK Lug, here it is, when it gets a 10 thousand views TT will be in some money, I already have an offer for the rights, but I will wait for a better deal….This is a special place and when you know the whole enchilada about it , you will think twice on WHERE in there may be..we never say IN THERE when we refer to a single Mountain, a canyon is put in down there..

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-GD4vhA3No&feature=em-share_video_user

        TT

        • TT –

          I am a musician, I don’t know if you know that. I’m in a business that no longer pays it’s workers.

          A friend of mine wrote a song that was selected as the them song for an HBO show. As a result he had the #1 video on youtube. I am sorry to inform you that he still didn’t make any money.

          Lugnutz

          • Oh, I saw this video before. My Toltec/Chama solve is a little different and I have not been up there.

            I really look forward to riding the Toltec as well as the Line in CO along the Animas to Silverton etc.

            Lugnutz

          • Lugnutz
            Forgive me if you’ve already said, but do you perform solo and/or with a group where one might drop in to catch a show? Never know when I might next be in the second city. Have a memorable and Happy Thanksgiving.
            Chase well…Stay safe…

          • Kidutah

            It’s me and I have some folks I record with. No shows yet but we have recorded.

            When Racine Street Blues is mastered I will post a link here.

            Lugnutz

          • Lugnutz
            Thank you so much. Grew up listening to B.B.King and Muddy Waters. Joe Bonamassa and others today. My youngest brother was quite a drummer and a very long time ago played some shows with Buddy Guy at Marina City’s House of Blues. My eldest daughter is a microbiologist by day and a punk-rock bass player at heart. Me, no musical talent whatsoever (does dancing count?) and you sure don’t want to hear me sing. Please keep me posted – I will definitely give a listen. Have a memorable, happy Thanksgiving.
            Chase well…Stay safe…

          • KidUtah

            Everyone has some musical talent. Yes dancing counts. Clapping hands too. In Kentucky and throughout Appalachia there are people working to preserve not just the mountain music but the dancing as well.

            Music is all about how we express ourselves.

            I don’t sing well myself but this time I sang through a megaphone and I love it. Lots of imperfections.

            Does your daughter play in Chgo or somewhere else?

            Lugnutz

          • Lugnutz
            You are so kind. Speaking of Appalachia, bluegrass singer / fiddler Alison Krauss is a long-time fav of mine. Especially like her collaboration with Robert Plant. My daughter and her bandmates have played Chicago and a couple tours on West and East coasts. I don’t particularly care for her sound of music, but nonetheless a great group of young people. I know a few other folks involved with music in Chicago area – one for about 15 years who is a very good bass player whom I affectionately call son and who affectionately calls me old man! I first met him through my daughter when he was the big, protective brother-in-need at the time.
            Chase well…Stay safe…

        • Hey Tom,

          Even though it’s not a vintage train like in your video I think you will appreciate the skill of the guy who shot this remarkable video using a racing drone. My son showed it to me this afternoon and I immediately thought of you guys, especially JDA after asking about drones last week I think it was.

          I highly recommend watching it all the way to the end and it is at normal video speed. No fake fast-forward stuff. Just great flying. The music is cool too.

          https://youtu.be/nQDcDZ6rmGE

          And to stay within the HoD rules I’d like to comment on the colophon. We all know that an Ω represents the end. But why can’t an end also be a beginning?

          In keeping with the railroad them, though I can cite numerous other examples, consider a simple one-track railroad with a secondary side track midway from Casper to Albuquerque. That single railway line has 2 locations where a train begins and 2 where it ends.

          So I guess what I’m trying to say is that perhaps the ΩΩ represents the beginning and the end at the same time. Or to say it another way, they are one in the same. A circle being a perfect example because it does not become a circle until the end connects up with the beginning, and circles have certainly been talked about a lot with regard to the poem itself (I’m in that camp), but I don’t think it’s been discussed as it relates to the double omega colophon.

          Hope that makes sense.

          And if this ΩΩ thought has been previously suggested at the HoD, then I apologize to that searcher as it is never my intent to plagiarize another persons ideas.

          Pinatubocharlie

      • Lugnutz,

        It’s very interesting that you mentioned SB Lost My Spot because I was just pondering that SB myself yesterday. I’ve studied and have tried to decifer that post several times, but keep returning to my starting place…..clueless.

        IMO it’s right there in front of our faces but our “wiring” doesn’t allow us to see the obvious. The old adage “if that was a snake I’d be dead” comes to mind. The problem is that dang snake bites me almost everyday now.

        I’ll keep studying that post in the hopes that one day I’ll find the key and unlock it.

        In the meantime, I for one would love to know if anyone ever correctly solved it.

        Pinatubocharlie

        • Pinatubocharlie-

          For fun I will guess Green River between Fenn Clovis Cache and Flaming Gorge.

          The possibility of clues in scrapbooks is valid before Fenn’s June 30 pronouncement that he wouldn’t give anymore clues.

          For me and other New Mexico fans there is a potential clue/hint in Midge Blue Dun.

          I make stars on my map when I discover something of interest. If the same place comes up again in an unrelated writing that makes me wonder if I am on to something.

          Lugnutz

          • No disrespect Lug, but I think the Midge is part of his magic act if you get my drift. Saying it’s subtrefuge or a red herring is too harsh and unfair and unwarranted, but I think misdirection like in a magic act very fair.

            It’s a plain sight thing but our brains are getting in the way like the backwards bicycle.

            Take care……… Pinatubocharlie

          • Pinatubocharlie – adamantly agree

            and if riding a backwards bi-cycle ain’t awkward enough already.. just add multiple rabbit holes 🙂

  4. I have to say that I put the articles that were written off each other and found some very helpful details. Call me crazy but I like the idea of folding the pages. Of course I wouldn’t damage my books from F but I can copy them and then try folding them. New idea, and anything new is worth looking into it. Question!
    Has anyone found a 10yr old kid that can read the book and find the clues in the poem? I haven’t, I’m beginning to think that F is pulling our leg on that.
    Best to all and Happy Thanksgiving
    Timothy

  5. has mr. forrest said these 9 clues,are they 9 one words or 9 sentences.is the blaze really white.he says if you know where to start,then somebody says he said ,begin it where warm waters halt.I think it is lost in the rocky mountains,as forrest only knows where it is,and no one can figure it out,and mr, forrest ain’t telling,no how,no way.his lips are sealed,so he can’t say,cause he said he will not say where it is.it took him along time to write the poem,yet he writes a book ttotc.and decides to put poem in the book.ttotc,a memoir,that tells about forrest.a poem that tells you where a treasure is.he said he never named the poem,so why are we calling it ttotc.just because its in his book of memories.memories are in the mind from something you did in the past.so now the treasure is hidden in the past.so how can you find it.lost in forrest mind,nobody knows but him.a script,plan,idea,writing,sketching,hatching,free hand,a drawing,water color,coloring,painting a vision.ourself .our shadow.whats inside that counts,we are all stained with brown,see the white light and do good to each other.a little arrowhead ,started him on his fasinating adventure.it set him on fire,got him excited,thus the fun to wanderlust.

  6. The book is a tour. Go where he went physically and think. Read the poem and break down the words to their simple meanings. Then read the book again and again. I typed out the entire book on my laptop and noticed something curious. I now only look in one geographic area for the blaze. Good luck! The snow is our worst enemy.

  7. After we get enough words from inside the book we can go to Tarry Scant and enter them, and perhaps some one will have what they need for a solid solve? TT

  8. Dal
    Click to add to the discussion of Forrest’s book entitled The Thrill of the Chase. I will not use this area for any other discussion – promise. I won’t discuss his…or his…or his…. The poem is in TTOTC so I presume I can discuss it, but there are other discussion threads in more tight focus with parts of the poem and supposed key word. So, this thread seems to be intended to cover everything more not covered by a more specific thread. Kinda deep hole so to speak. That’s it, I should follow the discussion threads in order of the clues in the poem. Here I go confounding myself again. Think I better post less and read TTOTC one more time – slowly – and just maybe I’ll have the first clue and find the right discussion thread to begin. Have a memorable Happy Thanksgiving.
    Chase well…Stay safe…

  9. Hi PinatuboCharlie: didn’t get a chance to thank you for sharing your Philippines/Pinatubo/Subic Bay story with us before The Book part 1 was retired. My brother served in the first Gulf War, and Subic Bay was (naturally) one of the Navy’s stops going to/from San Diego.

    Given the cause of your hasty departure from your island paradise, I find it ironic that you’ve settled on the shoulders of … wait for it … another active volcano! And not just any volcano, but perhaps the most dangerous one in the U.S. Hopefully you are not in a lahar hazard zone.

    And to top it off, you lived near Vesuvius (which I climbed a few years ago)?? Admit it: you like living on the edge and bouncing off the curbs. Forrest would dig your moxie. 😉

    • You’re welcome Zap.

      Your comment regarding your brother brings back memories. It was not unusual for a carrier battle group to pull in for a few days and drop anchor in the bay or tie up at Cubi Point or the Naval Station, but when we drove down the hill to work one day, it was not a battle group, it was a naval armada at anchor! Very very impressive. We had never seen that many ships at anchor in the bay, ever. And NO shore leave. We joked about that, but where they were headed was no joke.

      The next morning we were driving down the same hill headed for work. The armada was GONE and we all knew where they were going. Time to clean up the neighborhood. A few months later Mt. P. decided to do its thing.

      By the way, that was my second time working for the Navy in the PI. The first time I met my wonderful wife where we worked in the same office and married in the Base Chapel. And a few months later watched several thousand Vietnamese refugees process thru Grande Island, normally a fleet rec center.

      Oh, and so I don’t get put on someone’s naughty list, I should say something about TTOTC.

      Page 43, The Main Street Cowboys – Can you or someone else please explain why there are 6 names for 5 boys? Or does the first boy on the left have 2 names? Or am I in serious need of new glasses?

      Pinatubocharlie

  10. IN TTOTC, on page 41, Mr. Fenn says that sometimes he would get even with his father, for switching him, by jumping out of his window, and walking “down” to the cemetery, which was “north” of there house.

    • There’s no shortage of places, where down is north, but maybe this is one of the tricks of the poem, where taking it down, doesn’t mean a drop in elevation?

    • James – IMO: It’s tough to isolate the exactly definition/meaning of many of the words (and word phrases) FF uses and writes, and “down” is no different. He may have lived on top of a hill so every time he left home he would be heading down regardless of compass direction (I’m not saying that he in fact lived on a hill, just using it as an example). I might ask someone “I’m heading down to the store, do you need anything while I’m there?” and down is generically used (in conjunction with “heading”) simply to impart that I’m “going” to the store with no emphasis on compass directionality or elevation. This is one of the hardest parts about solving the poem.

      • I agree Bowmarc,

        Not just “down” but many words in the poem. And all are in “plain English”
        Many, I think, want plain English to be only in the context of what the think they are reading… prejudging the word, so to speak.
        Examples of down; can mean cozy, soft, even mean straight forwards…”down” can mean feathers which can relate to Native Americans and such [ just think about ]. Can mean; passing something. Or other terms for down to refer to; Duck [not the animal] but to bend or hutch over. Or down to mean; move forward with no real elevation involved, as you implied.
        These are just a ‘very few’ usages of “down” [ in plain English] and we have two downs in the poem… Do both “down” in the poem mean the same?
        fenn said “warm” means comfortable to him. Does this mean “cold” means uncomfortable? If it does, the some of the ideas that cold refers to the chest being made of metal doesn’t work well. if both warm and cold only means temperature like many have in their theories. I mean, would fenn relate to the chest as uncomfortable?… maybe if he actually did ‘throw’ himself on the chest, I guess.

        I’ll add; “look quickly down” can refer to down in stanza 2 as being the same… as a view and not so much a physical movement. Making both down’s only used for sight.
        Other words like “creek” can mean a small stream of water… then again… a small stream of water can be consider the same as a canyon by definition; tall or shear sides with flowing water… but the question is more about perception, in the case, than precision or accuracy [ the mud puddle to an Ant, idea ].
        Which brings me full circle to “down” might refer to a view and what we perceive as big or small may just be the opposite of what we think… I mean, can a creek refer to a canyon by usage of the definitions? Again, it not what we think we should see, but what fenn might have intended it to be. A creek means nothing more than a narrow passage… water is not needed for this definition to be usable. If this is the case, the poem can be read completely different…

        For example;
        Stanza 1 could be a view, and not so much a travel into a canyon [ there is a Q&A that seems to relate to this ]. Stanza 3 could be an enclosure of sorta the meek [ claustrophobic?] to go into a creek [ narrow passage, related to stanza 4 we might need to duck or bend or crawl “in there” [ kids may have an advantage here…lol… and why fenn may have had the ‘need’ to make two trips?]

        Each word usage can change the poem slightly enough to equate to physical features of the land and directions and instruction… and possibly all the clues represent a small area… That is if the readers really think about the words and not just what they want them to be.

        End of commentary…

      • Bowmarc…I made some comments over @odds+ends about the word “down”. They are only examples of a different way other than what is often offered or discussed.
        I used the word down…because it is nearer the first clue. It appears as though the Chase has faltered repeatedly right there at the first clue ,second clue…moving on to the third. All of Fenn’s ATF seem to point to this part of the deciphering for lack of a better term.
        Down…could have many different meanings as Seeker pointed out…so who knows. As a directional clue or placement clue…going in, moving through the canyon is possible if we reference the first stanza, “alone in there”. Doesn’t matter…up, down, north, south…just go in there, the canyon.

        • Q~ Who else knows where the treasure is buried?
          A~ I never said it was buried. I’ve avoided that word. I hid it. I don’t mean to imply that it isn’t buried. I just didn’t want to give that as a clue. It took me two trips in my car to hide the treasure. And I can tell you an 80-year-old man is not going to make a trip into a canyon, then come up and go down again. As for who else knows, I’m the only one. My wife doesn’t know. [People.com]

          I’m not sure In there is in the canyon…

          • Me neither Seeker! Ha !
            It is possible( as you have alluded also) that the clues may be in a tight or close relationship to each other. With that said…the whole deal could transpire right there in front of the whole world in a very short, abridged trek, with a couple of clever twists, that might make even the most adventurous folks wonder why they did not think about something a long time ago….just a scenario to toss around.

          • Ken,
            I’m sure you have seen the Fenn’s landscape [home]…
            I can tie the entire poem to that yard only on a small scale of the normal idea/usage of what the words seem to relay to. [ imagination?]

            Think about attempting to find a 10″ sq hiding place just in an area that size, with all that is around you. I dare say that would take some time to do, if you don’t have precise instructions.
            If you found such a location out in the vastness while searching… would you even consider it?
            The thing is… an area like that can be within a larger area that also seems to fit the poem, and many if not all, would walk right by looking for a huge canyon and miles of clues.

            Fenn said we need to be able to walk several hours to our solves “twice” [total round trips est. less than 6 hours].
            In one theory that trec is only to get to a location like that… but along the way… the scenery can look as much like the poem as the smaller location… certainty of the location beforehand, line of thinking.
            Huge, may not mean large but more inline with how fenn feels about the place… held in high regards and respect.
            The average Joe, even someone who is familiar with the area, may not know if this location, as such… so it’s only speculation as to why on my part. But the book might help with that.
            Quickly means short, fast etc. Scant is a synonym and means small etc. Its seems to me that the poem could be telling us [at the point of the blaze being found] ~ the scale of what we just read about. [I wonder if folks would call foul if that actually was true].
            I’ll take it a step further… using Plain English, nigh for left or even a westerly direction [if we twist it a bit], Down as south or from another point, far as right, possibly two rights [maybe right turn and the other a east direct [ depending ] In, Below, Up, etc. can all be utilize as directions in a small location, almost pacing out places of descriptions…

            You might be able to see; in this theory that hoB, if know, would over ride wwwh or any other prior clue.

            But we’re back to the old question what and where is wwh?

            All in a theory of perspective. because I have been told, size doesn’t matter.

          • Yess…your description is much longer than the one I posed…never the less I can still see/visualize a much smaller scale than most believe may be the case. Again…this is just talk and I am sure you realize that a simple walk around the block could take one person ten minutes. It may take another two hours depending on “what” they are doing, looking at/for and so on.
            I keep reiterating the importance about where things seem to being heading in the wrong direction. 7 (SEVEN) years and folks are still pretty much right where it was 6(SIX) or so years ago. First two clues and nobody knows anything really beyond that? If they even knew it at all? Ok…maybe four but not so sure?
            Something around the word down…or NFBTFTW has searchers twisted into knot. Logic says it has to be so basic that it is pounding on the walls to be seen. “Precise” may be what is throwing things off a bit. How about common sense…thinking is more important than doing?
            Why can’t there be a wwh that leads to a canyon that does not need to be hiked for days in whatever direction that has a HOB in close proximity? And so on…
            I went to Snake school…most times the scenario is big/BIG but the best choices for survival are limited. Best to find high ground fast(for extraction) and to be able to move quickly. Blend in fast and make yourself small, plan to move in any direction yesterday. Just more for the kitty…

          • Oh! sure.. end run my question. LOL

            Where the heck is wwwh and why?

            Yep, we all have the answers to every part of the poem but that one. The blaze, distance, which creek, why no meeks are allowed, even in the wood… lol, but i’m sure someone will correct me on that.

            Commentary meant as sarcastic humor, and not meant to be politically correct.

          • Shoot! WWH is where it’s at man…I thought you knew that! Dang Seeker…I’m sorry, It’s the place…you know…where all the cool kids go to get away and hang.
            Seriously, I believe that when/if wwh is solved for sure, and the person/s reveals it after securing the treasure it will turn out to be a place that is combined of all the words in the poem…tied together like the sweetest fly ever…with a couple of hackles dangling out there in the wrong direction…just for kicks.
            I’ve got an idea or two…but that’s another story.
            And don’t believe anyone here that says they know for sure…cause I think we know where that always goes.

  11. Seeker…
    Book Part1/ 11/21/17 3:46 AM
    You suggested that the colon was appropriate in usage, and yes, I agree.
    I really meant to say that Fenn could have easily just written ” So I wrote…” and just ended it with a period(.)
    That would have been just as acceptable and probably “more” appropriate, given his proclivity to using incorrect or discombobulated commas and sentence structure. Why pull a colon(:) out of his hat at the correct time?
    It just hit me at the time(no pun) because I was studying the timing of/or possible timing of the poem at the time. Jeez…lot of time there. More exactly…using a colon to emphasize a full stop…or long pause. Maybe…to look around/pay attention. Or… sometimes to indicate a change of speaker. Any thoughts?

    • Hi ken.

      If you read the previous blogs and a recent post I’ve made….

      IMO – a comma tepresents a directional change, possibly a left turn, and if you think about it, a semi-colin can represent a right turn….and a period is a stop and/or a pause, maybe because you’ve hit a marker.

      Cheers!

  12. I have the new book, but I have not read it yet. I had surgery on my eye and my vision is not back to normal yet. I am looking forward to my eye healing so I can read the new stories.

    • Windy City

      Would it be ok to say what surgery you had. I had an issue a couple of years ago that I can and even spell.

      Lugnutz

      • Thanks for all of the kind comments. I had a membrane that was covering the macula removed. It is the same eye that I had a torn, detached retina repaired few years back.

        • Dang Windy, you really need to take the spoon out the cup before sipping your hot chocolate.
          Been there, done that… Just don’t push the recovery. You’ll be reading all the new clues so enough.

          • Hope you feel better soon Windy… If it makes you feel better I just got the third memoir yesterday…
            Take care of yourself 🙂

  13. Hi All — there aren’t separate posting topics for the books TFTW or Once Upon a While, so I figured “The Book” was the closest match. Just wanted to post a little summary of the “anomalies” I found in OUAW, some of which may have gone unnoticed by those who have received their copies.

    First off, the postmark stamps are obviously back. Not every one of the 39 chapters has a stamp — chapters 7 (Shelling Corn) and 9 (Glory Is Never Enough) are stampless. (If you want to cross-reference to the Scrapbooks on Dal’s site, Shelling Corn is SB #91 and the other on the Rawlings PRO 5 football is SB #100.) I have no theory for why he left stamps off those chapters.

    Second, like the stamps in TTOTC, one of them is unlike all the others. I mentioned this a couple weeks ago, but so far no one has chimed in on the answer. It’s not hard to find, so we’ll see who here solves it first. The mystery, though, is deciphering the meaning of that outlier stamp and what he changed about it. Consider it in the context of what was unusual about the stamps in TTOTC.

    Third, compare the illustration for the Unfortunate Hiccup on pages 70-71 with that of the illustration in Scrapbook 180. Notice what’s changed?

    Fourth: I don’t know if it’s a typo or intentional, but compare the title of Chapter 17 with what appears atop pages 76, 78 & 79. Given Forrest’s penchant for opposites, mirrors, and reversing sayings and song lyrics, I’m inclined to think it was deliberate.

    Fifth: Look closely at the photograph of “The Quahada Chief on a Black Pony” in Chapter 18. (This was Scrapbook 174 of the same title). Subtly hidden on top of (or behind?) that picture is a map of Kings Canyon in California. You should easily be able to make out “Glacier Monument” under the horse, and many other mountain peak names are visible including Palmer, Bago, Gardiner, Fin, Pyramid, Crater, Kid, Pinchot, Wynne, Striped, Marion, State, Dougherty, Kid, Goat, Munger and a few others. I’ve done a lot of mountaineering in this area which is why many of those names were familiar to me.

    Sixth: check out page 120. Do you recognize that shadow? It’s a mirror reverse of the cover of the TFTW shadow. Continuing with the theme of opposites and reversals, Forrest has maintained the reversed lyrics he put in SB #90 of the Tony Bennett song on page 123. The correct lyrics are:

    In my solitude you haunt me with reveries of days gone by.
    In my solitude you taunt me with memories that never die.

    And finally, in Chapter 38: The Bullet Comes Home (original SB #145) — the $2 bill at the bottom of page 169 is a picture of the $2 bill found at Ground Zero in NYC that belonged to Robert J. Gschaar who died in the South Tower of the World Trade Center. You can Google his name and $2 bill to see the matching image (and serial number).

    I look forward to reading other searchers’ discoveries of aberrations in and other observations about the new memoir.

    • Thanks for posting the short list of abernomalations Zap.
      At the end of the day( just jiving you). The $2 dollar bill is one that smacked me in the face real hard. Also was the reference to the numerous Mt. Peaks…kind of ties to “Patagonia”….more later.

    • Thanks Zap. I really need to buy that book and check it out. That $2.00 bill kind of intrigues me:

      “Your effort will be Worth The Cold” (WTC).

      • Sparrow: nice pattern recognition! I missed that one! It may be nothing, but nevertheless it shows you are calibrated to look for such oddities.

        And if you’re looking for some encouragement not to leave the Chase (it was you posting that this weekend, right? On my phone so hard to check) you have repeatedly demonstrated the lateral thinking skills necessary to unravel Forrest clues, in my opinion. Keep plugging away … winter is your friend since winter=time.

      • Thats cool, good thinking , wtc. But…..ff did not start the initial short-hand writing we use, (nfbtftw and so on) but I guess by the time he wrote the third book, He could have adopted it.

    • Hi Zap, why did he added the $2 bill to that page? Was something else added to the content of the text? I don’t have the book.

      • A mystery for us to solve, Oz10. Was it WTC? Was it Thomas Jefferson? Was it the 2? Who knows? I keep an open mind. I haven’t done a full text for text comparison with SB 145. All the OUAW story versions have differences from the original SB’s, Passages and so forth, some minor, some significant.

        I do recommend that any serious searcher buy the book. I think there are good hints in it, it’s a very nice-looking book, and the price is not a wallet-buster — especially considering the quality. And it’s very convenient to have a collection of “Scrapbook highlights” in a fast, tactile, reference format.

      • Oz10— in SB145 about the Bullet Forrest mentions giving his mother-in-law a 2 dollar bill, which she always eventually returns to him. He also mentions buying gas for 11cents a gallon, buying two gallons and saving 3 cents for next time.
        He says he still has that old 2 dollar bill. It is a reminder (or treasure so to speak) of when he was poor—- and yet still so happy. That two dollar bill gave him more contentment than a whole chest of gold could. I think the 2 dollar bill is one of his “treasures bold”.

          • lug—
            Probably an old one. But a new one would be fine too. I’ve got an old two dollar bill stuck in a Bible somewhere. lol. So i think I’m covered.

          • Sparrow –

            Whether it’s an Old One or a New One, either way it’s worth half as mush as a new Two Dollar Bill.

            I will bet my bottom dollar Forrest Fenn enjoys that joke.

            Lug

        • Just for the record, he ‘pawned’ the $2 bill to Peggy’s mom so he would have spending cash to take Peggy out on dates…that whole premise is strange to me, as he never says what he paid to get it back…I assume it is the ‘joke’ that he could buy it back from her for less. The inclusion of the WTC bill is weird as well, I take the importance that FF shared a nostalgic feeling with his wife as the WTC guy and his wife did…but so? We know Peggy is important to him, is it just that for when one of them goes, the other will have that $2 bill to remember/cherish? Does not seem to be anything chase related…but then I’m of the opinion that not many SBs do (insight to FFs mind sure, but links to the chase I believe are in your heads). Just my 2cents, IMO IMO IMO

    • The obverse of the $2 bill has the Declaration of Independence. The stamp dates from the TTOTC are all country dates (save maybe one) of their declaration of Independence.

      The World Trade Centre connection was mentioned previously on Jenny’s “nature makes her own rules”

      “I don’t think earth can hurt it, under the right conditions wind might affect it, it’s probably already wet, and look at what fire did to the twin towers.”

      • 9=9: I investigated your claim that all (or nearly all) of the postmark stamp dates in TTOTC are countries’ dates of their declaration of independence. However, I could not find one full date where this was true, so I had to assume you were speaking only of the month and day and not the year. This latter “coincidence” is not as impressive when you consider there are over 180 countries with specific dates of declaration of independence. With any given date, you’ve got about a 50-50 chance of matching ~some~ country. But the odds of all 20 stamps matching a date would be about 1 in a million (2 to the 20th power). So, it’s worth investigating if it’s true. It starts off well:

        1. 16 Sep – Mexico (1810)
        2. 2 Sep – Vietname (1945)
        3. 25 Aug – Uruguay (1825)
        4. 10 Jul – Bahamas (1973)

        But then:

        5. 15 Apr – no match
        6. 18 Oct – Azerbaijan (1991)
        7. 3 Jun – no match
        8. 13 Jul – no match
        9. 5 Jun – no match
        10. 23 May – no match

        So true to statistical expectation, exactly half of the first ten stamps match dates, and half don’t, so I didn’t take it any further.

        • Hi Lugnutz: I more readily associate April 15th with tax day. Had anyone asked me the date the Titanic sank, I doubt I would have even gotten the month right. But again, just matching month & day to historical dates without also matching the year is not a very interesting exercise to me. And what I showed above with the countries is that there isn’t even a correlation, so I don’t get why the claim was made.

        • Zap,
          ok I found all those independence dates except April 15 which is the sinking of the titanic, but more importantly the date Abraham Lincoln was assassinated. ILincoln is mentioned in TTOTC and has a strong link to the Declaration of Independence.

        • Zap…there you go…..statistically probably not the association someone made. I agree.

          Good work. I’ve removed it from a possibility to further research.

          The other notion of the postmarks, was that they could be associated to the month day the Fenn family took vacations.

          Another avenue could be associated to the month/day as relative to a numerical reference to something.

          1. 16 Sep – 16-9 / 16-09
          2. 2 Sep – 2-9 / 02-9/ 02-09 / 2-09
          3. 25 Aug – 25-8 / 25-08
          4. 10 Jul – 10-7 / 10-07
          5. 15 Apr – 15-4 / 15-04
          6. 18 Oct – 18-10
          7. 3 Jun – 3-6 / 03-6 / 03-06
          8. 13 Jul – 13-7 / 13-07
          9. 5 Jun – 5-6 / 05-6 / 05-06
          10. 23 May – 23-5 / 23-05

          etc…etc…etc…

          I’ve never travelled down that rabbit hole, but have thought about the possibilities of the connections….namely the double digit choices. Somehow they tell me they may be connected to a map.

          A certain map. Maybe those space references on the sides of maps….A1 – D4…etc

          They could also be related to the “Row 4 Block 23” type numbers that were used in the book concerning Forrest’s father’s grave location.

          I wondered if they are locations on a map using a grid-like search pattern.

          But…what map?….so I gave up.

          Until just now.

          I have a map that has grid-like features on it.

          I’ll check to see if they fall upon the map…..this may result in those numbers are actual fishing locations of Fenn’s past.

          I would say this openly…..if these are “locations” on the map I have….I could honestly say that my research and map could be worth millions…..*smiles*….

          Interesting…..deduction I made while brainstorming for a few moments, huh?

    • Great compilation, Zap. I would add the painting “switch” page #136 OUAW and page #104 TTOTC. Also, Fred Harman is spelled two different ways…Harmon and Harman in the Red Ryder article. Harman is correct. “Ferd” is again mentioned…possibly illuminating Ferdinand Magellan? I would never had caught on to the Glacier Monument. Regarding TFTW, he talks about a “Castroville Point, CA” and a “Pedernales Point, CA” page #26. I think both of those places are in Texas. But again, pointing to California? I see Sosoko is again mentioned…sounds a lot like Sudoku to me – patterns of 3? Of 9? And lastly, the emphasis on Elvis. A couple of references to him in first chapter and of course the stick figure. Seems as though a lot of people were looking at Beowulf prior so the focus has shifted or we have been re-directed? The $2 bill connection is haunting. There are many more I’m sure. Quite sure, actually. Big smile!

      • Hi Sandy — good catch on the Harman/Harmon. Similar to the Orson Wells/Welles error in TFTW.

        I think the CAs you mentioned from TFTW stand for circa rather than California, though it is odd if they are in upper case without the period (ca.)

        • Zap – you are probably correct regarding CA; I hadn’t considered that since the abbreviation is not in the generally accepted format. As we know, Mr. Fenn makes his own rules and it makes life a little more interesting. Curious as to what you think the map of King’s Canyon in the real CA is all about? Are the maps shown in the new book hinting at us to change our focus? Good catch on Chapter 17 as well. You know, Forrest made a pretty big deal at the book signing about his editor and the little disagreements they had over his writing style. Funny that there are so many apparent “errors” – it would seem the editor lost a few of those skirmishes. I like how you think about the postmarks but I have a different take on them. Perhaps our paths meet in an intersection somewhere.

          • Zap ~’Forrest made a pretty big deal at the book signing about his editor and the little disagreements they had over his writing style. Funny that there are so many apparent “errors”’

            That didn’t seem strange at all to me, but might be important nonetheless.
            fenn has talks about how he corrupts words, bend words, twist meaning of word to make them work, even a dislike for the academically correct style writings etc etc. Of course, imo, we should keep an eye out for any reasonable reasoning for this.

            As to the maps… I have pondered many times about the “right map” and what details fenn relates to… whether GE or A map… the one thing that keep come up in my mind is water[s]. Not fishing guide maps or transit waterway maps… but a time of ecosystem mapping of the waterways… watersheds… even settlements involving water sources. A none human trail, so to speak.

            I mean, without the Rocky Mountains range and the affects of it on the surrounding areas [ from north to south in two countries ] the climate and weather, as well as the land would be so different over the entire search area. In this the reason for fenn saying only; in the mountains N. of SF… we need to understand something about the range itself?
            A comprehensive knowledge of geography might help?

            You rattle on about stamps and [ what I call code ] words in the poem about your theory… what I hardly ever see is you talking about how geography working within your theory… I’m not talking name of places or what a creek is… but more to the idea of geography’s influence on the challenge.

            Just curious…

          • Zap Let me add;
            My thoughts of what a human trail relates to is something made by man for man’s usage.
            Water is utilized by man, but never intended or created by man as a human trail, I can say the same for what is called a, mountain passage… it’s there, we use it, but it was not created for us, line of thinking.
            Just because we stomp the grass down, doesn’t make it a human trail… imo… those human trails are designed deliberately by man [humans]

          • Hi Seeker,

            “I have pondered many times about the “right map” and what details fenn relates to… whether GE or A map… the one thing that keep come up in my mind is water[s].”

            Well, I’m sure most agree that water plays an important role in the poem’s solution, which is not too surprising coming from a fisherman.

            As for an overarching water lifecycle view, I think that’s “zooming out” too far. Yes, the Rocky Mountains are special and rare. It’s unusual to have such a tall, long mountain range so far from the nearest tectonic plate boundary. The weather would indeed be very different east of the Rockies were they absent. But while this is all interesting, I don’t see how an appreciation of the majesty and importance of the Rockies will help finding a 10″x10″x5″ bronze box.

            “You rattle on about stamps and [ what I call code ] words in the poem about your theory… what I hardly ever see is you talking about how geography working within your theory… I’m not talking name of places or what a creek is… but more to the idea of geography’s influence on the challenge.”

            I think you will eventually find that the names of geographic features are critical to a proper decipherment of the clues. Knowing that the Rockies are moving, that rivers change their courses over time, that glaciers advance and recede, and so on will not help you solve the poem’s clues in my opinion.

            I realize that you’re not a fan of stomping out the clues, and appear not to favor the idea of a point-to-point-to-point type of treasure hunt, but what if that’s indeed what it is?

          • Zap,
            Where is geography in simple names of places?
            The point to knowing about the range itself and the watershed, Automatically puts a different spin on the poem other than gliding a finger over maps and hoping to match names of clues, example Brown Mountain… that is still a process of eliminations style search and can match anywhere with in the 4 states.

            By the way I showed how one theory using the Rockies and the CD could land a searcher in a very small location… is the theory correct… ha! who the heck knows… but it can be done.
            No names needed, until it is needed to be explained to another, just the natural landscape, and how it works, is all that is really needed.

            As far as the stomping mode type of search… the problem with many reported solves is… they all have many miles of stomping, then when that’s not enough or seems to be too much, alternate transportation becomes needed.

            Some one posted… if I recall correctly… they were told by fenn or there’s was a interview…[ my mind is slipping lately so don’t hold me to where I remember this from ] but the stated was … searchers didn’t quit, they left the poem.
            One way of taking that comment is, distance of stomping out clues… they kept going and going… walking by all the clues and the chest.

            So, if you think about it. All the clues over a large location can meet in one small location – in theory and still was
            “followed” ~ [meaning by understanding].
            To be honest, I’m not diggin that line of thinking much anymore. But ya’ll never get me to believe clues have to have names of places to be known about. [ sure the places might have names, but I highly doubt there in references to knowing how to decipher a clue.

            Commentary only.

        • Hi Sandy – I don’t have any strong theory as to the purpose behind the Kings Canyon map. I can make a weak connection to the area I’m focused on, but nothing I’d ever hang my hat on.

          “Good catch on Chapter 17 as well. You know, Forrest made a pretty big deal at the book signing about his editor and the little disagreements they had over his writing style. Funny that there are so many apparent “errors” – it would seem the editor lost a few of those skirmishes.”

          Yeah, she won the battle on things like “toothbrush vs. tooth brush,” “dishwasher vs. dish washer,” and correcting liquorice to licorice (pg. 14), but then missed some typos here and there (e.g. if/of on page 8, missing article “a” before jaguar on page 73). “Meadow larks” still shows up as two words, and why is the chapter 13 title spelled “Annabella’s Hat” with two N’s?

          “I like how you think about the postmarks but I have a different take on them.”

          So did you find the unique one?

          “Perhaps our paths meet in an intersection somewhere.”

          Perhaps so!

          • Hi Zap – my approach is to attempt to marry the post marks to a place on a map. I have had some success and one postmark is quite interesting – a marriage made in heaven so to speak. The rest fall into the category of shotgun marriage, arranged marriage, maybe just living together kind of relationship lol. I’m not convinced that every post mark is significant, and I definitely am not an expert in probabiIity, but there is one postmark / place name that I believe defies the odds of being nothing more than a coincidence. I know that this approach requires specialized knowledge but for me, everything is specialized knowledge since I don’t have an encyclopedic knowledge of the geography of the 4 states. Or of art.

          • Hi Sandy and anyone else following along w.r.t. postmarks in Once Upon a While. I’m still waiting for someone to correctly identify the outlier stamp. I’m beginning to think that very few people have purchased Forrest’s 3rd memoir, which if true is a shame. It’s a high-quality paperback, and in my opinion it does contains hints/clues/nudges/what-have-you that are found nowhere else.

          • I have the book.
            I haven’t looked at the stamps.
            I’m not sure why you do this instead of just saying what you found.

            Lug

          • Hi Lugnutz: simple — I’d rather let people fish than throw them fish. I want people to enjoy the experience of discovery. If you have the book, LOOK! It costs you nothing. You’ll enjoy finding it. It’s not a hard problem.

          • Zaps
            1) wadaya mean ‘Lugs will only accept his slow poached fish on a silver platter’?

            2) wadaya mean ‘look at the book’?.. are you suggesting that (if Jonsey1 hadn’t seriously bribed the judges) i’da won the book therefore got the clues too?

            2.5) wadaya mean ‘it’s not a hard problem’ ..have you read the poem lately or.. ?

          • Hi CH:
            “1) wadaya mean ‘Lugs will only accept his slow poached fish on a silver platter’?”

            With white wine sauce. 😉

            “2) wadaya mean ‘look at the book’?.. are you suggesting that (if Jonsey1 hadn’t seriously bribed the judges) i’da won the book therefore got the clues too?”

            Yes, indeed! Of course, a copy of OUAW by carrier pigeon could take quite some time to reach your beautiful island.

            “2.5) wadaya mean ‘it’s not a hard problem’ ..have you read the poem lately or.. ?”

            Compared to the poem, the outlier postmark stamp is easy to find. Sandy posted that she found it, and I fully expect she did (but I can’t know for sure unless she gives me a little wink-wink hint that I’ll recognize). 😉

      • Hi Sandy or anyone else that’s been pondering the oddities in OUAW. Sandy: did you ever identify the name of the original painting in the B&W image on page 104 of TTOTC that was switched out for the Nicolai Fechin in OUAW on page 136? It seems an odd thing to deliberately alter, and he draws attention to it in OUAW by keeping the photograph B&W but replacing the original painting with the color Fechin. His graphic artist(s) even kept the frame the same — just stretched it a bit horizontally to accommodate the replacement painting.

          • Hi ken — yes, that one is clearly Alexandra (Fechin’s wife). I haven’t figured out the artist for the painting that originally appeared in TTOTC. It doesn’t look like a Fechin to my eye (and certainly not an O’Keeffe, Hurley or Henri). Surely someone out there has figured out the artist/title.

          • Hi ken — ahh, I didn’t search long enough. The TTOTC one is a Fechin after all! Discouraging how hard it is to research (on the web) when the lute/mandolin “Player” was painted.

        • Zap – I need to go thru my notes on the painting…but I don’t think I do. My thought is that we are to be “drawn” to her unusual hairstyle. Or whatever those black claw like things on her forehead are! Hey, will you take a quick look at Sally Colorado’s blaze and tell me what you think? I have puzzled over it for a couple of years now. The F won’t let me forget it. It’s probably Cholo from SoCal but I don’t quite buy that.

          • Wow, Sandy — I have no clue what’s going on with that poor aspen. From top down it looks like an eyeball, ALE, upside-down 7, 11, a symbol I don’t recognize, a capital Greek sigma, a block letter F, and a square with a slash through it (or a Z with vertical bars on either side). Looks like even older carvings below and to the left.

        • Perhaps of interest to those researching Fechin’s painting of his wife Alexandra in OUAW as a change from the black& white mandolin player in same photo TTOTC:
          1. What remained the same in both books is a discrete painting of farmer at the bottom. Odd. Why there? With your effort to research.
          2. Fechin was known as a Tar-Tar from Kazan.
          Tar-zan. Forrest stated that his earlier name for Indulgence was Tarzan. Is there a connection to the poem?
          3. Fechin’s daughter Eya may be more important with respect to the chase as Forrest was personally connected to Eya. He may have also assisted with purchase and conservation of Fechin House in Taos when Eya passed away and her children could no longer maintain Fechin house-museum.

          • Good eye, Norwegian! In all my dozens of readings of TTOTC, I’ve never paid any attention to that small painting at Peggy’s feet, nor do I recognize the work now that I do see it.

    • Zap – another abernomalation or 2…..In SB #90, Mr Fenn includes a photo of a sculpture entitled “Salute to a Warrior”. And of course, “Salute to a Warrior” is the title of the Chapter in OUAW honoring Renelle. That brings me to an interesting (to me) connection I make with SB #90 and SB #185 in that both paintings show a sweat lodge in the background (or at least I think that is what is pictured in #185). Not that I think sweat lodges are involved but it seemed an interesting coincidence.

      • Zap and others…yes, I found the outlier postmark. Another abernomalation (thanks ken, love that term and will use it for eternity) and perhaps interesting postmark connection that has currently piqued my interest is Lady Pretty Blanket. She is mentioned twice in 2 different contexts. I am interested in the preponderance of Fred and Ferd name occurances as well.

        I wrote to Forrest to tell him that I know both of the men who played the “Little Beaver” role (now grown men, one is recently deceased). Fred Harman employed these men as young boys to star in the Red Ryder / Little Beaver rodeos and also as models for his art. It’s a small world down here on the borderlands between NM and CO. Both men are Jicarilla Apache Nation tribal members, and very proud of the role they played as the young Red Ryder in the rodeos especially and as friends of Fred Harman. Fred Harman put Pagosa Springs on the map (don’t laugh all you big city people, I’m talking about western art) and the museum is priceless. The Red Ryder / Little Beaver rodeos continue to this day.

        Jicarilla translates to basket – canasta translates to basket. Maybe the Pagosa region should be a waypoint on all our maps. Artists use models…and Forrest uses the model theme in multiple scrapbooks/stories. Love all these connections and some day I hope they lead me to the treasure!

        • Yes Sandy…I have researched Harman to some extent and have come away feeling enriched by the new found knowledge. I was never able to further any of that info. into a possible relation to a poem- solve scenario. I refer back to it once in a while…but only when something else seems to relate.
          Nice post.

        • Stayed in PG last week for the first time. Swam in a hot springs swimming pool at near midnight. Searched a little north of there the next day.

          • Sean – that area is rich…maybe not with treasure but it is a gem. Rainbow and Piedra natural hot springs, Chimney Rock, Treasure Falls, Treasure Mountain, the Harman museum ( I hope you went there), and the Southern San Juan Mountains. And of course the commercial hot springs are thought by many to be the best waters in the world.

            For awhile, I was really interested in the last known Grizzly Bear killed in Colorado – just east of Pagosa as the Raven flies in a very remote area and very near Fred Harman’s ranch in Blanco Basin. Autopsy reveals that that Grizzly was a mother of cubs and her remains are on exhibit at the Denver Museum of Nature and Science. As far as anyone knows, the cubs didn’t survive or at least were never seen. I’ve since moved on but a nice connection.

            Interesting side connection; at the Fred Harman museum there is a preserved Aspen stump with Kit Carson’s name and 1859 carved into it. If I remember correctly, the Forest Service allowed Pagosa citizens to harvest the stump for preservation in 2006 as the tree was dying. So those initials lasted 150 or so years in the wild. I mentioned on the blog once that my Dad tells stories of the initials KC (Kit Carson had a ranch in the area) all over Philmont back in the 1940s when dad was a scout there. Kit Carson was a prolific graffiti artist!!

        • Sandy, Zap and others. Thank you for this very interesting post.
          I found this extremely interesting today.
          I have been working on a solve and it centers around Forrest as a vagabond. Forrest said in one of the fishing videos that he was going to name TFTW “chasing a vagabond” and then he pauses almost to his surprise that he said too much.
          So Thrill of the chase and Chasing a vagabond. Chase means to pursue. And in the Declaration of Independence with Thomas Jefferson is the most important line that Abraham Lincoln repeated thru his Presidency. Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You could also say life liberty and the chase of indulgence:-).
          Now the Jefferson River in Montana is formed from the Ruby(Red) and Beaverhead( little beaver).
          Is Forrest hinting at this area? I have researched the area in the past but have never followed thru with a solve there.
          This area is very interesting. One of the only places where Paleo-Indians (Nomads or Vagabonds) frequented west of the Rockies. And they where of the Clovis.
          I believe at one time others had speculated the southwestern area of Montana to where Forrest found his clovis cache?

          Also Forrest had used the tramp, bum hobo references many times before. he was referencing the Vagabond as he states in the Video, “Chasing a Vagabond”.

          • **** DPT wondered “I believe at one time others had speculated the southwestern area of Montana to where Forrest found his clovis cache?” ****

            FF didn’t archaeologically “find” either the Fenn cache or the Crook County cache, he obtained them as already-assembled collections (both of them probably put together early in the 20th century). The original collectors are unknown, as is where-and-how they were originally found.

            His (significant) contribution was to maintain the collections intact as purchased, and to submit them for professional study.

            Jake

        • Sandy

          Many searchers agree that Fenn would not violate tribal lands. Speaking of the Jicarilla, I wonder if you think Off Reservation Jicarilla land is Reservation land?

          Lugnutz

          • Lug…I think I know the area you are referring to… east of Chama? That entire stretch is fenced, signed, and gated. I think there are private landholdings in there as well. But inaccessible to searchers. The Rancho de Los Pardo is a huge private ranch on both sides of the highway going towards Cumbres.
            The Jicarilla Reservation proper is very well marked. And patrolled. I dont think the treasure is on tribal lands. Tribal police take their job very seriously.

  14. Maybe its coincidental that the cover of OUAW with the stars fits my solve. The star that has the fishing line, is my put in below the HoB and the largest star is where I think the TC is at. It all fits my map.

    Just saying 🙂

    • Charlie M –

      We haven’t discussed the cover on HoD. Or I have not seen that discussion.

      I believe we are looking up through the constellation Orion. The “hooked” star is Mintaka which is the Delta star, etc.

      Someone may wish to argue that we are looking down through Orion but I believe we see faint Meissa back up there between Betelgeuse and Bellatrix.

      Spellcheck does not like (m)any of those words.

      Lugnutz

        • CharlieM –

          I do not know why you are asking.
          What I mean is that if you were Zap, you would be asking a question that you already had an answer to.

          Do you have an idea or are you asking me for an idea about why a man would fish for a star??

          Lugnutz

        • Lug,

          I get what you said. Why would a man fish for stars?

          Just ask’n…

          ***********
          One could be fishing for “stars” – as with those who stand out or are above the crowd.

          What was this in reference to again?

          Thanks?

      • Lug;
        You are probably correct in saying that the cover represents an actual constellation. I, on the other hand, think that it is a “Star Map” with the four main stars representing four of the clues.

        For me, the star on the spine represents “No Paddle Up Your Creek”.
        The star above that represents “Heavy Loads”.
        The star to the right and up from “Heavy Loads”
        represents a “NEW Water high” The fishing line represents a dry creek bed, and the final – Biggest Star represents where Indulgence lays in wait.

        I know you do not believe in “Hints” or “Nudges”, but I do – Just how I see it – JDA

      • Hi Lug/All: the stars pictured on the cover of OUAW do not match any constellation of which I’m aware. I’m an astronomer, so I know my constellations, and that is definitely not Orion — mirror-reversed or otherwise.

        • Sure looks like the Pleiades to me but I am not an astronomer . Not perfect to scale but looks very close . Some Native Americans in history said they came from the stars- the Pleiades. I am not sure of anything relative though. IMO .

  15. PD –

    I have seen the video of the event and I do not recall any conversation about the cover.

    What did he say about it? (I don’t have an hour to watch it again.)

    Thanks
    Lugnutz

      • PDenver –

        Oh absolutely.

        There was probably some guidance. I want stars. I want a boat. I want to be fishing for a star. Maybe.

        And the GA probably showed Fenn proofs.

        I would agree that it seems unlikely Fenn said Put a guy on the front with a fishing line hooking the star Mintaka.

        Lugnutz

        • Pdenver, Lug,

          I wish I may I wish I might catch a star tonight….
          Maybe this might refer to F hoping to have a person find the TC, which would be the star of the Chase.

          Just thoughts

  16. I notice the book doesnt get talked about much which seems a shame.
    Does anyone have a thought as to the various dimensions Fenn eluded to where his thoughts took him, when he blotted out Philly and the grave marker and how it could relate to the chase?
    He said it was life changing afterall.

    • Hi Kira;

      I am not sure that I have any thoughts on him blotting out Phillie, but I do have a thought or two on the grave marker.

      As I have mentioned before, “tarry Scant” can mean a black (TARry) stone that has been sawn on two sides (scant). A Grave marker, or gravestone like the one pictured on page 95 of TToTC.

      Forrest had originally planed to die at the place that Indulgence is secreted. I think that a “Grave Marker” (Tarry scant) was part of his plan. When he beat cancer, his plans changed, but I think that the idea of a “Grave Marker” remained.

      A grave marker – is just that – a stone that “Marks” the place where someone (something – Indulgence) is buried.
      “Look quickly down, your quest to cease,
      But tarry scant with marvel gaze,…”

      Look down, and you shall see my Grave Marker – Don’t be surprised – I told you it would be here…. Just take the chest and go in peace. (Interp)

      Forrest’s full quote says it all – ““We are all here only for the pleasure of others, everything living, only for the pleasure of others. Of course, that’s it! That’s why the stone marker said” …and smile at a homely girl.” It had to be pounded into me! That’s why all of Philadelphia was reduced to a thumbnail, to show me that each one is as important as the all, myself, no less than any of them, and no more. It seems obvious to me now that we are all temporary statements, like a cut bouquet on the living room table, to make brief comments in passing and maybe cause a smile, then go on to make room for others who will play their parts…
      If I cannot enrich those with whom I interact each day and cause them to be better for my having passed their view, then I have wasted my turn. That I succeed in this endeavor is not as important as it is for me to make a solid try. For if the try is sincere I have succeeded in whatever failure resulted …. So now, at least for me I know. And if no one should ever think of me when I have passed this vale, it will be of no consequence, for I have finally found my way and am at peace with it all.” f

      ““We are all here only for the pleasure of others, everything living, only for the pleasure of others. ” How can I add to that? – JDA

      • JDA,

        Thanks for sharing your insight. You bring some personal knowledge that you never had to share, but you did…. you made a ‘solid try’ there.

      • JDA
        Ive been considering tarry scant is the blaze. This is the only item that seems to for such a thing.
        Covering his thumb of Philly, pretend to be holding (object, like Statue of Liberty ) between thumb and index finger, having your picture taken of you holding up the Leaning Tower of Piza, all visual perspectives. Maybe a certain kind of perspective is needed to help to solve the poem. What it is escapes me atm.

        • Kira;

          Look at the quote …”That’s why all of Philadelphia was reduced to a thumbnail, to show me that each one is as important as the all, myself, no less than any of them, and no more…” Humility – We all must become humble. No matter how powerful we might become – flying a jet is a powerful responsibility – we must each realize that each of us is no more powerful or important than the next person.

          Too much to put on a grave marker, but very important words and thoughts.

          I would not look for “Perspective” ideas, other than this is a fantastic perspective of why we are all here. Just the thoughts of a guy that has been around a bit too long – JDA

          • JDA
            Fenn quotes three pieces from Khayyam that is death related and each is in the form of his poem. At the end of this chapter Fenn is saying he made his peace with all of it. He is comfortable with death.
            I think theres something more there and has helped with a possible hint.

      • JDA,

        Nice write up on the grave marker.

        I have also pondered a “scant” being at the hidey spot as a grave marker. Like the one he’s holding in SB 126 along with his most interesting hat “Mildew” which he refers to as “her.”

        https://dalneitzel.com/2015/01/21/scrapbook-one-hundred-six/

        On MW, Fenn said, “You will find no mildew in the treasure chest.” Perhaps the scant and “Mildew” will be found standing guard over the chest. If one finds the chest and opens it, perhaps the finder will be pleased when “she” sees it.

        P.S. Hopefully, the grizzly in SB 126 will be absent from the finder’s scene 🙂

        • At the Top;

          I had never seen this quote. Thanks for posting it. I will let you know (I hope) if I find “Mildew” standing guard. I am quite sure I will find the “Scant” looking over Indulgence – We all can hope can’t we? – JDA

        • Just a reminder on the “supposed” quote on the soldier’s grave marker from the 1947 French Indochina war. The French in the 1940s (as today) are not in the habit of writing in English — especially on a grave marker for a fallen soldier. And I should think they would be even less likely to borrow a joking epitaph by Henry Louis Mencken that he wrote for himself. The original words were “If, after I depart this vale, you ever remember me and have thought to please my ghost, forgive some sinner and wink your eye at some homely girl.” Remember the 85% rule.

          • Zap –

            Why did you post this in response to the remarks on SB 126?
            Because of the female pronouns???

            Lugnutz

          • Zap…just curious what you believe to be the motive behind Fenn using that particular “misquote” in that particular story/setting? And what do you mean by “Remember the 85% rule.” ?

          • 85% rule is on pg14 when he refers tononfiction writers dont jave to be but 85% if the time right.

            My take is he used the quote amd replaced smile vs wink to tie his stories together.

          • Hi Kira.

            I’ve read a lot of things…..okay…nevermind that.

            But you are somewhat in the ballpark with what I think FF meant.

            Non-fiction to me is/are facts uncovered by a previous individual.

            Try to follow along…..maybe this helps with the thinking process.

            As you can see, the above statement is not complete.

            Like the poem, it is missing things. Things we do not know, yet still need to find.

            For me…many mentors and folks help me focus on the poem. I really don’t hink I can pinpoint one techniques, as like they are all active at once. Weird in some ways. Anyhow…..that is besides my point.

            Are you still with me? :o)

            I’m rambling…..as I was saying…..new discoveries are being found everyday that change history, and awaken the senses and starts churning my mind, and nothing like butter.

            I learned a long time ago, what we see is not what is what the truth can actually be. I ventured down THAT rabbit hole. I never resurfaced.

            So one coould say, I am still in that rabbit hole working this puzzle.

            Anamoly? I think so.

          • Tim
            Im able to follow, even if at times its like going through a crazy straw with tje loopyloops,
            In a way it is an experiment since Fenn wants people off the couch and devices . But the irony is, its possible theyre spending more time doing what he didnt trying to research clues than explore.

          • Hi ken: For your first question, I’ll tell you my best theory. It’s because Mencken was known as the “Sage of Baltimore.”

          • Hi Zap.

            I like that, but shooting from the hip will always leave questions, doubts, unsurity.

            But it does move one forward.

            Nietzsche – philosophical in nature, but still had questions of his own. Jung, the same way. Germany flourished in those days. It was a welcome site to see.

            Are you implying to read the poem with a steady mind?

            Many see the end without looking for a beginning.

            Sheez, I’m starting to sound like Yoda. No try. Do. Man I love those films…..since that first day I walked into the theater at Qua Vadis.

            It definitely has some measure.

          • …and zap…..always remember…..anyone can accomplish anything if they set their minds to it. Look at what FF did. 15 yrs….dedication.

            He put this together for family and friends to enjoy…….making it so even an every day joe, worker bee kind of person can get involved.

            He said it was simple. You see my brain thoughts and the motions I go into.

            A relaxed mind can take you anywhere.

            Be the chest.

          • Kira…I am well aware of “where” that comes from.
            My question was to Zap. I am curious why Zap felt Fenn used that particular misquote where he did and for what purpose.
            Your “take” is rather general…is there more to that thought?
            Zap…I am certain you did your homework in regards to Mencken.
            Mencken seems like a rather off beat character to insert in that story….maybe that’s the point?
            It is an oddity that nags at me.

          • Lugnutz: my post was in response to JDA’s mention of the grave marker in his post of January 12 at 8:18 am.

          • Hi ken — it “nags at me” too. I’m pretty sure the French soldier epitaph is a fabrication (or maybe a mis-remembrance), which naturally begs the question of why. I can make a subtle H. L. Mencken connection to my solution, but it’s not very satisfying.

            In the end, it may not be a hint to anything at all. After all, this story appeared over 4 years before TTOTC was published, and the same epitaph was used in that earlier pre-Chase version:

            http://www.85fis.doncondra.org/Forrest%20Fenn%20Story.htm

      • Wow JDA…..this is a much different view I’ve read of you. Nice.

        I don’t own his latest book…..so if that quote is in it….that is a lot to think in.

        Is there a clue in there?…..*shrugs*…..I haven’t a clue……LOL….but i will say, from all of my own life seeking chores and rituals I’ve been through, I can see Forrest as poignant and thoughtful and a very sincere person……

        Unlike anyone I have ever met.

        If he can use this imagery in just talking about how it can be world changing to exchange a smile with a nobody, imagine what kinds of smiles he has initiated across the globe? Shoot – I bet Ronnie the Scot keeps one in his pocket…..I too dream a little, which in ways contributes to making me smile…..etc…etc….etc….

        We all have seen what smiling does – Did you know that we even lose about 1 gram of fat with it. Even the smallest amount of hope is there. He sees it too.

        Trying to awaken a world that sleeps to become something Utopian is futile to do, I’ve tried. The world isn’t broken, it just isn’t aware.

        Believe me…..we all have our own perception. Although Forrest is trying to do much more than any of my small attempts……he did do something I could not or was unable to do. There is a prize at the end for the one who attempts. He opened an unknown door to the world of his life and dventures.

        He literally forced the world to recognize him in some ways, but he opened that door invitingly.

        The opportunity is knocking for us all. We should respond. We can literally as FF mentioned…..”leave worries behind”.

        I’m game.

        Be the chest.

      • Hey JDA…

        I’ve often read your posts about a “Tarry scant” as referring to a black marker and I can’t say you’re incorrect.

        However, have you considered the first word in the line “But” and put it together with “tarry” to hear it as “buttery scant” as in a ‘light yellow marker’ maybe?

        Or is this just too much of a ‘slippery slope’?

        Remember his story about his ‘slicks’? Maybe just a polished stone marker where all other surrounding stones are not polished.

        Just a stone out of place with its surroundings?

        Some thoughts is all.

        • Hi Sam;

          Thanks for your post. I am a pretty “Straight forwards” kind of guy. Although I think Forrest uses words in non-standard ways – I do not think that he would use it in the manner you describe – combining But with Tarry to = buttery = light yellow.

          As an aside – I do think that “THE” tarry scant is not all black, but may have a couple of other colors on its face. – Sorry, can’t say why I think this, but it has to do with a couple of SB’s.

          Thanks again for your post – always like to hear other’s ideas – JDA

        • Hi samsmith.

          Stones have always been part of my theories.

          I had one theory and thought it was a good one, when I found the a “cairns” on the side of a road.

          I then put cairns into my general solve as a method of the blaze. How a blaze can be marked…with cairns.

          To further this thinking, the road I was on, seems to allow cairns to be made and placed…..get this…from what you saying…small 2-3″ flat round rocks….perfect for stacking.

          Now whether this was good for me….I couldn’t find that same one…..2 yrs later…..gone……I must’ve imagined it.

          This led me to believe, if I am going to find the “blaze” what ever it was going to be…I had to go back a third time and look for it…while hiking through the wilderness with BOTG.

          I am now a firm believer in that I cannot solve this puzzle until I find the blaze.

          “if you’ve been wise and found the blaze,”

          This is a direction by FF to look for it. I doubt you can see it from GE or on any map.

          Yep…..I have to put myself back into the field and look for how these clues fit.

          Cheers and good luck to us.

        • Hey sam…good morning.

          When I think of butter…I think I will be sick! :o)

          LOL

          Seriously….including things that related to “bad safety” – as “slippery slope” clearly does…..to be honest…..really never entered my mind as a place to look.

          Do you thnk an 80-year old man would mess with any “slippery slope”?…uh-uh. way too dangerous….we all want to live as long as we can, and that just doesn’t seem like something to get involved with.
          – …and “slippery slope” can refer to a “not so good choice”. Probably also eliminated from his construction.

          You see how I am using probability? It really is a wonderful tool to use.

          I think Fenn thought of everything…..”100 to 1000 yrs ‘everything’ “….

          Cheers and good luck.

  17. Here’s the quote:

    “Henri paintings were very important and quite valuable so my eyes were always on alert for his name in auction catalogs. After a few weeks I bought one. It was a picture of a little girl named Graciella. But for some unknown reason it didn’t appeal to me. Her face was, well, I don’t know.”

    • Sparrow I know the name isnt the name, its just Fenn using Grace Kelly to get Graciella.
      Its just there is no matchimg images of the painting to what is shown in the scrpbook.

  18. There is something about the contrast between “Graciella” (wink at a homely girl–Forrest said he didn’t really like her face at first) and Grace Kelly. In the original SB there is a poster for “To catch a Thief” with Grace Kelly and Cary Grant on it.

    Forrest mentions Cary Grant later in the SB, but never Grace Kelly. I think because she is not mentioned in the SB, and is totally removed from the reprint in “Once Upon A While” she is VERY IMPORTANT. I think a lot of the hints have to do with what is NOT there, versus what IS there.

    All I can say is this—-I bought a defibulator for when I watch “Rear Window”. Grace Kelly is so beautiful in that movie that I literally have to be shocked back to life after watching half of it. I think it is possible that Forrest Fenn “treasures” Grace Kelly—-but I could be wrong.

    • Well, Princess Grace ~was~ born in Philly. And “Rear Window” is a Hitchcock masterpiece. But that’s not what Forrest is doing here, in my opinion. ELL ELL ELL ELL ELL ELL. Don’t forget all the 50s. What’s 50 in Roman (Hello Romnella = Roman ELL). Lanier School picture: what’s on all the girls’ blouses? “Well Private, what the h— do you want me to do about it?” and “When I asked what the h— he was doing, he told me that he needed the barrel to make a BBQ pit for the troops.”

    • Hi Sparrow: I just posted a hint-filled reply. It was comment #420068. However, I think it got filtered out by Dal’s software because it mistakenly thought the post had language that wasn’t family-friendly. (It didn’t — it had two quotes from Forrest that at first glance might ~appear~ inappropriate.) Perhaps Dal or Goofy can vet it and clear it.

      • Kira: I’d prefer the whole post appear since context is important. Unfortunately (for once) I did not cut and save what I posted, so only Dal or Goofy has the power to resurrect it. If the post ends up being gone to the ether, then I will post my best recollection — replacing the troubling (?) quotes with a link to where they can be found.

    • I will expand just a bit concerning Grace Kelly. Again, she is in the photo in the original SB 178—but she is not mentioned in the actual story—though Cary Grant is. In the new book “Once Upon A While” this SB 178 is reprinted—-however, the photo with Grace Kelly is gone. So this TOTALLY removes her from the story. I believe this is a hint, and very important.

      If we go back to “Featured Question and Chatting with Forrest: Bronze and Iron” 6-23-15–Jenny Kile’s blog we see a story about “melding” (putting two different metals together to from one thing).

      Forrest shows a couple of examples—-and one of them he says is of the “famous Rodeo Clown. Emmett Kelly”. So has melded two different metals together to form one person—Emmett Kelly.

      Now—-“Graciella” is a combination of Grace Kelly—and she has the same last name as the rodeo clown—coincidence? Maybe. I just wanted to throw these thoughts out there. To me Grace Kelly many be a more important hint than we realize.

      • How about Gracella and Florencia names both mean- Flowering? He bought the painting ( seed) and the picture grew on him ( flowered) after awhile. Just my poetic perspective. IMO .

  19. Some of you may find usefulness in this post, during your quest.

    Page 57 ttotc – “We should have buried him standing up.”

    Search Google – Repatriation of French Indochina Graves

    http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/showthread.PHP?t=83077

    Rotorwash post 15 Sep 09 @ 21:28

    Rotorwash answers that the French soldiers were buried standing up, that a post-hole digger was used with the burials – Battle of Mang Yang Pass, 1954. The soldiers were buried facing France.

    I have no reason to discount the post, and found other corroboration elsewhere.

    Further research showed that many French soldier burials were repatriated in the 1980s, but we can imagine that many were not. The soldiers of the Mang Yang Pass battle were repatriated to Frejus, France at the Memorial des Guerres en Indochine, Route du General Callies 83600. The rows point to the sea in the direction of Indochina.

    Page 94 ttotc – French soldier stone grave marker.

    Page 95 ttotc – “Is it fair that no one recalls where those brave French soldiers fell and are now interred in that remote jungle clearing, hidden from life for a million sunsets?” And ff goes on to say they are forever forgotten, “save by me.”

    Page 100 ttotc – “It is more than sad to me, not just that the French soldiers are dead and buried, but that no one knows where they are or even who they were.”

    So, IMO and others may have thought, our quest should consider the search for a grave in metaphor (not that I believe in a buried treasure chest, but it is a possibility). FF during the recent Nightline episode stated the treasure was hidden where I put it. There are words in the poem which match. Maybe he said too much???

    Wink your eye versus smile …. to Zaps post above Jan 12 @ 11:04 am, where Zap explains the epitaph on the French soldier’s grave stone, and the different use of the words wink and smile.

    IMO, the blink (wink) and Operation Arc Light are related and help us to understand. And I found a place in the Rocky Mountains where things are buried standing up (sorry, will not reveal).

    Thoughts?

  20. Looking For Lewis And Clark
    Somewhere In Montana
    Sunday 20SEP 1946
    Page 59 TTOTC

    “He was quick to take the hint” and said he would just ride along and help me keep the mountains company.

  21. A book within the book:

    Forrest Fenn made reference to several books within TTOC and I have not read all of them. But recently I performed an online search for “JOURNAL
    OF A TRAPPER”
    —Or—
    “Nine Years in the Rocky Mountains
    1834-1843
    Being a General Description of the Country, Climate, Rivers, Lakes, Mountains, Etc., and a View of the Life Led by a Hunter in those Regions”
    By OSBORNE RUSSELL

    I found that this book is in the public domain and available for free download in several formats. There has been no mention of any clues or hints in this small publication. However, it certainly is a vivid record of living by your wits in the wilderness while under threat of attack by hostiles.

    It fascinates me to read about areas that searchers are currently moving through. Following Mr Russel’s travels on a map I see areas that now contain towns and farms described from an era of free ranging buffalo, beaver, mountain sheep and white tail deer.

    So if you are interested in reading about a “greenhorn” hunter / trapper learning the trade then I would recommend it. I can’t help but admire the mountaineers that chose to spend years in the Rocky Mountains through all seasons, trading with Indians and living off of the abundance of nature.

    It certainly stirs me to travel West at soonest opportunity.

    • If you can find Forrest’s gold, you’d have enough of the yellow metal to make over 1200 Olympic gold medals. (But you’ll also need over 1200 troy *pounds* of silver for all those “gold” medals, as well as a lot of copper.)

  22. I read my copy over the holidays a couple of months back. I have to say, it was a faster read this latest time, but it took me a lot longer to finish because I would stop to consider what was written. Perhaps the difference in looking at the words versus wondering about their meanings. Maybe some of you have had a similar experience with this or another “favorite” book as well?

  23. TTOTC…
    “His words are some of those that tell the *insidious* stories the best, stories that have made me *think*:
    ———————————————————————
    ———————————————————————–
    A Muezzin from the Tower of Darkness cries,
    ” Fools!” Your reward is neither Here nor There.
    Strange, is it not? That of the myriads who
    Before us pass’d the Door of Darkness through
    Not one returns to tell us of the Road,
    Which to discover we must travel too.

  24. Here’s something that I’ve been chewing on and would love some input from others. At the bottom of page 13 of TTOTC, Fenn talks about why he never got around to writing his memoir. He first says he was always too busy, but then writes, “But the other reason was more important; my self confidence was really down at the bottom.”

    1) I don’t believe Fenn’s confidence has EVER been lacking, so that sticks out.
    2) There’s an obvious typo. Self-confidence should be hyphenated. Or should it?

    Confidence is another word for secret. It’s very easy to make this connection. So is Fenn really saying he couldn’t write his memoir until his secret (the treasure chest) was down at the bottom? If you read the line in the first stanza, “I can keep my secret where,” as “I can keep my confidence where,” then it completely changes our view. This line now says, “My treasure chest is down at the bottom.”

    The next big question is obvious: The bottom of what? Anyone have any ideas? I have my own thoughts… 🙂

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