156 thoughts on “The Hidey Space…

    • The beautiful gaze of Santa Fe, the poplar trees, the wildlife, water not far, the ability for one to thrust himself from a height and not walk away, the last inch is what counts, not far to walk to, and ponderosa Pine just above the pinions and juniper. Water country is above the arid broad valley. Tarry scant of the remaining blaze. History tells where Meek would have traveled and now we do in old faithful, on another road. A dry dusty trail quests thirst. Nature calls. Some drawings are educational, some capture the moment or season. I now have Omar’s note, you didn’t pay attention and must have been lost in the wood next to your car or on the trail. Odious and Merry Colorful Christmas. Bronze is forever. Other colors change as time passes. Nature … Red, black, then green.
      Stay safe if you are near the solid rock because history washes away footprints in the sand. The hidey place.

  1. It is half exposed as the poem tells you. Probably in a crevice. I don’t think it is in water but you have to through water or around it to get to it.

    • The poem tells you it’s half exposed? Amanda, I don’t interpret the poem that way.

      What in the poem says it’s half exposed?

  2. I think it’s within a small rocky outcropping next to a river or stream, possibly covered by a few rocks on top just to make it hard to see, but not particularly hard to get to.

  3. In an opening amongst a pine thicket with a log laying over it.
    Not buried but covered well enough so as to not gump into it.

    • That seems reasonable; if the TC is not there, then two other places nearby can be searched . . . all on the same search hike. I’m lovin’ it. IMO.

        • It was a tidbit I ran across couple of years ago. In nature, the occurrence of two stacked stones could be coincidental…”three” stacked stones could be coincidental, but not likely. Three stacked stones(ducks) were common and sometimes included a pointer on top…wink wink.

          • This is interesting. I’ve forgotten that’s what they’re called. My first cairn I saw was an earthen one with a bent twig on top. I took a photo of it my first year not realizing what I was really seeing. When I got home, I looked at my photos and saw it and immediately thought of Mr. Fenn’s stick people. The following year I returned to my spot and checked it out, and found it to be just a earthen cairn. The Chase has been a lot of fun.

          • It is not surprising to not have remembered…this is not a common term…but true. The wink wink was to refer to the “one” duck with the pointer…

          • PD,
            I only offer suggestions… don’t listen to me… I’m ducking mad.
            I mean, I like Ducks.

    • I am still haunted a little by the cairn that I dismantled but did not dig beneath in my second search trip detailed amongst my entrees in the others adventures section. The cairn was right where I thought the poem led but by the time I physically got there I could not believe the position was appropriate. Felt too exposed to be the hidey spot. I also was firm in the belief that Fenn did not bury it. I did not take the search too seriously at the time but now wish I had probed the earth with a stick at least.

      • FF originally intended to throw his body on the chest and had wording for such in a previous version of the poem that said something along the lines of ‘Take the treasure chest but leave my bones…’.

        If the treasure chest were buried, he’d essentially have 2 choices:

        1) Throw himself on the ground above where the chest is buried and leave some other type of clue with his bones to:
        a) indicate that these are his remains (for an active searcher), who would presumably have found this spot and knows to dig here, OR
        b) communicate to an accidental finder of his bones that there is a treasure buried beneath his bones.

        For either to work, FF would have to ensure that his body remained above the chest (and not get carted off by some hungry wild animal, for example) and that his clue also remained (didn’t deteriorate in the weather, get blown away by the wind, etc.).

        2) Dig up the chest and:
        a) Throw himself in the hole with it, leaving both unearthed
        b) Engineer a way to rebury the treasure chest with him on top of it

        Each of these dig up scenarios, IMO, aren’t plausible, because FF digging up the chest presumably would negate clues in the poem that direct the searcher to dig here, etc., and I am not sure FF wants to take that away from the person who comes up with the winning solve.

        IMO, it is much more plausible that the chest is hidden (which includes the possibility of it being only partially buried) which makes throwing himself on the treasure chest a very real possibility and such action would not otherwise detract from the solve for his published poem.

        Just food for thought and IMO.

    • IT’s all BSing Sam.

      If your looking for information from bloggers.. lol.. ya might as well throw the poem in the trash. Bloggers, Searchers, Explorers or whatever anyone wants to be called, are simple talking about.. WhatIFs
      But, ya can rent a boat and paddle anywhere on the swamp, I’m sure many folks will be happy to tell you.. they have all the information you’re looking for.

  4. IMI (In My Interpretation) of the poem, it is almost certainly “in” something, but in saying that you’d have to consider other hints – like that it is still subject to the elements…

    I have my wager on a stone pile/formation large enough that a man could fit in (or partially in) to deposit the chest and I’d also wager that those stones are in close proximity to a flowing body of water. If you pick apart some of the words that Fenn uses to describe the resting place of the chest, it is hard to consider much else IMO. It also goes perfectly along with several other statements made by Fenn, both in the poem and otherwise. These are paraphrased, but you’ll at least see where I am coming from:
    – MANY times Fenn has said that he doesn’t want anyone to get hurt – this is important with a phrase from the poem
    – “I have gone alone IN there” – could be interpreted as “the wood”, like “in nature”, but I suspect otherwise.
    – “look quickly down your quest to cease” – I personally believe that this sort of helps the theory that it is in something. I just don’t fathom the chest , very obviously looking like something of value, is completely in the open. If it were, IMO, someone will have incidentally found it or it would be a strong possibility which Fenn himself has already put to rest that the probability of an accidental discovery is highly unlikely if not impossible.
    – “but tarry scant with marvel gaze” – This is the part of the poem that I think points back to Fenn’s not wanting anyone to get hurt. He associates wherever you are right now (looking at the chest) with, at minimum, a potential for some level of danger – to keep you safe he specifically tells us here not to stay in this place for an extended period of time, thus minimizing the potential for harm. “linger short with curious admiration”.

    Obviously these are all just opinions, and I while I have what I consider a solid theory – I haven’t been to my theorized resting place. Curious to see what some others think!

    Happy Contemplating!

    • Don, IMO tarry scant means to get the chest ans get out before someone else sees you. I keep thinking that the hidey space was special to him as a boy or young man. If that is true then the very private space may not be so private anymore. I think it is relative close, less than 500 ft, to a road but out of sight of the road.
      Also IMO “gone in there alone” could very well mean a Park or forest.
      All speculation on my part.
      He has stated that it is not a man made structure.

      • Yes that is my fear. When you are in a place like that it is hard to believe that it could be the hidey spot. If he ever really considered dying there it would certainly not be appropriate to be in plain sight. The treasure would be found as quickly as the body.

      • Not Obsessed, please tell us specifically where “He
        has stated that it is not a man made structure”.
        In other words, show us where we can find that
        statement. Thanks in advance.

      • Tighterfocus: I would ask for clarification from Not Obsessed — what is “it” in his sentence “He has stated that it is not a man made structure.” What isn’t? Obviously the chest IS a manmade structure.

        AFAIK, the only public quote from Forrest that is germane is this one from Scrapbook 35: “I said on the Today show that the treasure is not associated with any structure. Some people say I have a desire to mislead. That is not true. There are no notes to be found or safety deposit boxes to be searched. The clues can lead you to the treasure, and it will be there waiting when you arrive.”

        *Treasure* is not associated. Multiple ways to read that. The least restrictive is that the specific location of the chest is not associated with any structure. But he didn’t unambiguously say that *none* of the clues are associated with any structure. Still: I trust Cynthia’s private email exchange that she shared with us: that home of Brown isn’t associated with a structure. And based on that, I’ve extrapolated that to mean that none of the clues are. But I wouldn’t kill a solution based on that assumption.

        • “I don’t know how Toponymy can help you at all Chris (I had to look that word up). But if you knew the geographic location of each clue it would be a map to the treasure. f.”

          As they same in comics;
          ‘NUFF SAID

  5. Good morning folks. Being the magician I think he is, I’m thinking it very well could be in plain sight, perhaps a cairn as PDenver suggested above.


  6. I think you will find it on the ground, below the blaze, in a scary place, by a dry creek, too far to drive to, after you have turned at the Brown house below a hot spring. That’s what I think…

  7. I’ve just been to Edinburgh Castle to retrieve the Treasure Chest, I am now back home sitting on top of it.

    Ronnie the Scot

  8. It’s inside a hollowed out petrified fallen tree. It’s at the end of the log though where it’s too dark to see the chest. So you will have to be brave to crawl in there. But once you begin to crawl towards the chest you are “brave and IN the wood”.

  9. A lot of opinions have been given to the ‘hidey space’. Which of the following do you think is most likely?
    ♢ Lying on the surface. (hidden by rock(s), bark, or other debris).
    ♢ In or under something wood. (a tree, log, stump, etc.).
    ♢ Under something rock. (a space under a boulder or pile of rocks etc.).
    ♢ A hole in the ground. (covered by a rock (or rocks), bark, or other).
    ♢ Buried in the ground. (covered with dirt, sand, gravel or mud).
    ♢ Other. (ideas?).

    • “Which of the following do you think is most likely?”

      ♢ Other: number one on my most-likely list is “not in the wet part of Great Salt Lake.”

      Beyond that I won’t speculate – there is no number two on that list.

      Why subconsciously handicap or harden one’s mind’s-eye so far in advance of being in its vicinity? Better to go with soft eyes, open to everything. You spot the owl or hawk hidden in the branches with a slightly indirect and unfocused look, and let the form come to you rather than trying to force-stare it out of the surroundings.


    • Hi randawg…..all is just in my opinion.

      The hidey spot….is a place that will play tribute to long lost warriors of past conflicts…. AND probably will be like what he tells us in TTOTC….like the gravestones he found in Nam…..

      I envision FF placing the chest in tall grass, in a meadow, and one will just…”happen” upon it, as he did with the gravestones. It is concealed, not buried, yet it sort of is, and someone will know right where to go.

      “Buried” and lost forever, until found by chance.

      I also DON’T think FF really wants that, because he chose not to die with the chest, but instead, give someone else a piece of his life – one will be reliving or reenacting the same moment he did. Why not with the chest.

      That is a thrill…..don’t you think?

      • Given Fenn’s interests, I do think it’s probable that the spot has had human occupation in the past.
        But I don’t believe it’s in a place that would likely ever be found by chance.

        • “But I don’t believe it’s in a place that would likely ever be found by chance.” – randawg

          Logic dictates that “someone” found the hidey spot by chance. The only other option is that Mr. Fenn had prior knowledge of the spot before he went there. But then the person passing along the information to him would have been the person that happened upon the spot. I hope you are all able to follow my line of thinking on this. Either Mr. Fenn found it, or the information was passed along over the generations person to person.

          I suspect Mr. Fenn found the spot at an earlier time in his life, (maybe with someone else along with, maybe not), and then “kept an eye on it”, to see if others happened upon it. When he observed that no one did “stumble across” the spot, he knew he had found a spot to hide Indulgence.

          The other possibility is that Mr. Fenn was on the receiving end of information passed along down through the generations, and knowing he was the last one in line with that particular bit of information, he chose instead to pass along that bit of information through this chase.

          If it is the second reason, then many of us have been looking at this chase the wrong way.

          IMO, that’s why no one has found it yet.

          • Swwot;

            I think it is the former, not the latter. I think that Forrest found this special spot as a boy, and that he has many, many special memories of things done here. The views are terrific, the wildlife abundant and the perfect “fort” for a boy of 10 – 12. The perfect “Hidey Hole”.

            Forrest, Skippy, and probably their Dad know/knew of this “Special” place. “Special” because of the many memories created here.

            I think that it also has significance related to Forrest’s interest in Native American life in the past.

            All just supposition on my part – JDA

          • I have wondered if there is a picture in the chest of either him and a friend or one of them at the hidey space years ago. That would be a nice addition to the treasure.

          • Of course Fenn or one of his family members originally found the spot by chance. I meant that a searcher (or random hiker) is not likely to.

          • I believe that all of you are on to something… I’ve been thinking along these lines for some time myself…. An undiscovered archeological site, littered with relics! Unfortunately, it doesn’t make the task of finding it any easier… Now we are looking for an otherwise unimpressive site whose archeological significance can only be determined by botg…
            It seems to only broaden the possibilities!

          • And far enough off of the beaten path that it hasn’t been discovered by accident…

        • Hi swwot: my guess is that Forrest and his father (and maybe Skippy, too) found the general area together during one of their family summer trips. It’s unlikely that Marvin could have been told of this spot as a boy himself: not too easy to get to Wyoming or Montana (assuming the chest is in one of those two states) from Texas in the 1920s or earlier. It would be interesting to know when Marvin first went to Yellowstone — perhaps Dal knows.

          But there would be a difference between Forrest being taken to the general location as a boy, and the *specific* location in that area that Forrest chose to hide the chest. And I’m reminded of the paragraph from Flywater:

          “Those great places, which were personal secrets to me then, are now busy with the flourish of fishermen and women who cast a midge or floating cadis upon those same waters, never knowing I had been there, or even caring yes or no. I always thought that space was mine alone, and many of the memories there bred are even now still so personal that they exclude the intrusion of strangers. How dare they go there?”

          If the hiding place is not far from popular fishing waters, it might not be surprising that so many have been within 500 feet of the chest (and quite unawares). But thankfully, this isn’t horseshoes (double omegas not withstanding); close doesn’t count.

      • CharlieM: I can’t find a direct quote from Forrest where he claims the treasure chest isn’t in a tree, though I certainly think that idea is inconsistent with his original plan: “I told myself that with my last gasping breath, I was going to fling himself on top of that treasure chest and let my bones go back to the dirt.” Also, trees don’t live forever and are vulnerable to forest fires, bark beetles, landslides, etc. Forrest said he tried to think of everything, and if so, hiding the chest in a tree wouldn’t be very sage.

        On a related note, there was this MW Q&A from 6/24/2014:

        “Did you really say the blaze is a white streak, as has been rumored? Thank you. ~Deb”

        Forrest’s reply:

        “Thanks Deb, No, I did not say that. There is a lot of bad information floating around the blogs and many posts that are not well thought out. One person said (I’m paraphrasing) “He said the treasure is hidden in the trees. Then he contradicted himself and said it was in the sun. How could it be both.” Makes me wonder if that person has ever been in the forest.f”

        • Zap-
          The “white streak” blaze concept started with me. I was sitting in Forrest’s office while he was being interviewed by the press. The journalist asked him a sort of rhetorical question about the blaze and Forrest responded by asking the question right back…
          He said something like-
          What is a blaze? A horse’s white mark on his forehead is a blaze….and then Forrest mentioned several other things that could be called a blaze… I noted immediately that all these things seemed to be white…
          After this interview the journalist and I went over to Desertphiles ranch where the first Fennboree was being held. While there I was discussing this “blaze” moment with Desertphile and I mentioned that I thought it was curious that all the examples of a blaze that Forrest mentioned, were white. I further said that I wondered if that could mean that the blaze was white.
          Someone eavesdropping on our conversation heard what I said and contorted it to say that Forrest said the blaze is white…
          In fact…Forrest never said that…
          I simply wondered about it based on the examples of blazes that he named…
          But this person went ahead and made the all “untrue” statement on several blogs that Forrest said -the blaze is white-
          Forrest never said that.
          We must be very cautious of “quotes” that cannot be cited.

        • Could this be a mistake by FF and mentioning the chest is in a forest?

          “…..Makes me wonder if that person has ever been in the forest.f”


      • CharlieM-
        The “not in a tree” thought came from Stephanie very early in the chase. She reported that Forrest wrote or told her-
        “It’s not in a tree but it’s surrounded by trees. Of course everything is surrounded by trees if you go out far enough.”
        Some folks believe it…some do not…
        This was at a time when Stephanie’s word was trusted and also at a time when she and Forrest were communicating via email regularly…
        I personally have always taken it as a true quote from Forrest…but he has never claimed it as far as I know.

        • I had never given that statement a second thought but it’s interesting that she said (that he said) “surrounded by trees”.
          He could have said “there are trees nearby” but he chose to say surrounded which means “to enclose on all sides”. In that context ‘everything’ in a given search area is not surrounded by trees.

          • @randawg, this tree comment is much like his “no need to move large rocks” comment. Why “large” rocks, are we to assume that it may be required to move rocks that are not considered large?

          • Everything Mr Fenn says should be considered a potential clue. Especially when he makes comments as to the specific nature of the hidey space.

    • Seems to me that ithe chest must have rocks around it, or it’s in a crevice as you suggest for it to be stable for centuries as Fenn intended. Also, I do not expect to find it in an “open” area, like a meadow. With Fenn’s comment about there not being a human trail in close vicinity, yet he knows that more than one searcher has walked past within 200 feet, I think the treasure is in a narrow canyon or ravine.

      • Tom B, if you believe that FF knows that more than one SEARCHER — for the FF treasure chest — has walked past the TC within 200 feet of it, please tell us where you got this info.

        Thanks in advance.

        • Tighterfocus: Forrest used the plural “searchers” in this quote (Forrest Gets Mail #9):

          Q: “Are there signs that people are getting closer to solving your puzzle? How many clues have people solved now?”

          FF: “Searchers have come within about 200 feet. Some may have solved the first four clues, but I am not certain.”

          “Searchers” not “a searcher.” At the risk of repeating myself, there is further proof from “The Lure” post-screening Q&A (May 18th, 2017):

          “How do you know searchers have been within 200 feet of the treasure?”

          Forrest answers: “Well, because there … people have told me exactly where they were, and that’s the only reason I know. And, and, that 200 feet I think is pretty accurate. But there weren’t very many people within 200 … lots of people within 500 feet of the treasure. But, uh, the people that were with(in) 200 feet didn’t know that they were that close to the treasure, and they walked right on by. And of course I would never tell ‘em that, ‘cuz they’d, uh, they’d try to remember where they had been.”

          Pretty cut and dried to me. More than one searcher has been within about 200 feet.

  10. On the question of features of the hidey place, there is one possible clue from the Santa Fe New Mexican story:


    “Even if Fenn wanted to stop people from following clues published in a poem at the end of his memoir, The Thrill of the Chase, there is no way to make that happen. No one dedicated to the hunt would listen, he said, unless he retrieved the treasure himself and posted a photo of the gold on the internet, all covered in mud from the wilderness where it is hidden.”

    • But Zap-
      That is not a quote from Forrest…
      That is simply summarizing what Forrest told the writer and it is not in quotes so it is second party hearsay…just saying…
      I know Bruce and I trust him as a journalist and suspect that the non quote is accurate…but still…
      It’s not in quotes so I can only assume that it is summarized rather than the exact words of Forrest…

      • Apologies — I should have made it unambiguously clear that the quotes were from the journalist’s article, not verbatim information from Forrest. So there is opportunity for journalistic license with the comment about mud (though it would seem to be an unusual detail to include if the idea hadn’t been put in his head by Forrest).

        • “Mr. Fenn, In your interview with New Mexico True Stories, you mentioned that you know that the treasure is wet. I checked out the date of that interview and it looks like you said that in a February, which could mean that you knew that it had snowed or rained at the site of the treasure chest, or simply because of higher water.
          Now we are in mid-summer, and if we assume that no storms have passed through recently, would you know that the treasure is wet now? ~Thanks, B

          Wet + dirt = mud Who woulda thunk it? JDA

          • OOPS cut off reply – sorry
            Yes B, physics tells me the treasure is wet”. f – NOW wet + dirt = mud etc. JDA

    • Copper – Forrest has said that no tools are required. It MAY be “buried” but I lean more towards Interred. – more to the idea of a hollowed out place with Indulgence placed inside and probably a “capstone” placed over it.
      . In “Charmay and Me” in TFTW Forrest describes the following: “…I carefully removed the flagstone lid. To our astonishment, we discovered a black, smoke-smudged pottery jar that had been buried up to its rim under the floor. Inside the jar rested a rectangular painted bowl….”
      This pretty much describes what I think the searcher will find once he/she finds Indulgence – JMO – JDA

  11. Hmmmm. So you could simply sweep the sand or dirt away perhaps? Not necessarily dig but uncover the top layer? Interesting. But I hope you are wrong because my metal detector didn’t pick anything up. And if he didn’t bury his treasure there then I’m going to bury my own, because this place is truly the best.

    I’m also asking Santa for a better metal detector because I’m pretty sure my Dad got mine from Walmart. There were no beeps that day. What a sad day that was.

  12. FF said (paraphrasing)- my father would know where I hid the treasure.

    He also said in one of the books (TFTW , I think) they would hide their stuff at the end of each summer so it didn’t have to be driven all the back to Texas.

    My summation is that TC is hidden either where they would hide their stuff, some kind of hollowed out hole or space that could be covered in some way or in a similar place that his father would recognize instantly upon reading the poem.

    Just my thoughts.

  13. Sean: can you provide the quote wherein Forrest indicated his father would know where he hid the treasure? I agree with the premise for my own reasons, but I have not read anything direct from Forrest that supports it.

    • I read that as well. It’s in-between. A stop off. The midway point was always the most exciting. I don’t have the quote but I remember reading it. I remember my Dad taking me duck hunting one fall. We were shooting ptarmigan. The best part was the gas station on the way to Manley. It’s the anticipation. It’s being with your parents.

    • Zap,

      No, I can’t. I don’t keep my own database (yet) but I’ve read it a few times so I believe it’s accurate. I couldn’t find it on a quick search of TarryScant. I know that violates the strict standards of accountability we have here (which I love, btw) but I will keep my eyes out and post when I see it again.

  14. If you had a valuable item to hide in the woods how would you go about it? I don’t mean the special place you chose, but the actual ‘spot’. If you were in a hurry you might push it into the space under a boulder or cover it with bark or leaf litter. Or maybe scoop out a shallow ‘grave'(?)
    But if you had lots of time, …or even years to think about it I’m sure you could do better than that. It would be a spot that would be safe and secure and provide protection for the object. And look natural as if nobody had ever been there before. A place that would not be disturbed accidentally by things like erosion or animals (or humans). The spot would be cleverly thought out yet simple in concept.
    I like the idea of a shallow hole just deep enough for the object to fit into covered by a rock or rocks. Simple but effective. As a wise man once said: “Rock is permanent. I like rock.”

  15. This is in my own string of notes, and I didn’t put a reference, so I don’t remember where I found it….

    “FF has said some kid looking for a new fishing hole is the person most likely to find it accidentally.”

    Anyone recognize this, and is it valid, or not?

    • Hi HaydukeCC: don’t know how much validity to attach to that. It was a statement (not a Fenn quote) made by whomever mrt41114 is on another blog.

  16. Hear Me All,

    All of the below is IN MY HUMBLE OPINION:

    The Hidey Space

    I have found a large rock blaze in my search area. It has a big opening on one side, and there is only a dark shadow below it. However, with GE I can get a good angle in front of the opening, and by reflected light, I can make out specific shapes under this rock blaze.

    The first is a cylinder shaped bottle or can, straight sides, with a beveled top. It looks like a metal can just sitting there, straight up. It is conceivable that this is some kind of trash left by a past hiker.

    I also see a strange hour glass shaped thing that looks like a light, with purple on top and white on the bottom. This is the most out of place shape you would expect to find under a rock in the middle of nowhere. It appears to be connected to something behind it.

    In the photo, I also see another very cool thing. The shape is like something I have seen in the books written by Forrest Fenn. Very compelling indeed.

    I took several photos until I got one which allows the enhancement to show the items. Looking under a rock from outer space is not an exact science of course. Until now, I didn’t even realize I could do this.

    I am following the clues, and this rock blaze does fit within the parameters of the steps in the poem. It is not the only one I have found. There is actually another one which forms a perfect F in the rocks.

    For me this is frustrating because I did not check these things out the last time I was in this area. These blaze possibilities are all on the other side of my creek, and outside of my canyon down. All of my previous explorations had been within the canyon itself.

    “Imagination is more important then knowledge”

  17. Keep in mind that Forrest parked his car and made two trips to the hiding spot and back without being discovered. And, he must have expected that the chances of him being discovered were minimal, in order to even take the chance. I suggest that taking this into consideration can eliminate a significant percentage of proposed hiding places.

      • @HaydukeCC,

        As an IT professional, I must ask…

        What is an “innerweb”? LOL

        Internet, Intranet, WideAreaNet, MetroNet, LocalAreaNet, WorlWideWeb, and many others, but now we have an “InnerWeb”? C’mon! 🙂

        • ha, it was sarcasm, used often among computer nerds. I held back on using “teh innerwebs”. Gore would have been proud.


          • Thanks for appreciating my sense of humor.

            BTW, I have enjoyed your posts here on DAL.net (aka dalnet, interwebb)

            You obviously have a lot of experience in the Montana / Wyoming search region …

            Best of luck on your future searching!


  18. Thank you Dal for keeping the quotes straight.; means a lot to me.

    Just got back from my third expedition…Colorado is cold at 10,000 feet and I will bring oxygen if I ever go back there again …no place for old biddies or a flatlander for that matter. Feeling blessed, be safe everyone!
    Most perplexing to me is “…in the wood…”. Insights anyone?

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