The Hidey Space…Part Four


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This is the place to discuss the the space where the chest is hidden. Is it in a cave, a hole in the ground, in a river or creek, behind a waterfall, out in the open? Tell us what you think the resting place for the chest looks like.

606 thoughts on “The Hidey Space…Part Four

    • The beautiful gaze of Santa Fe, the poplar trees, the wildlife, water not far, the ability for one to thrust himself from a height and not walk away, the last inch is what counts, not far to walk to, and ponderosa Pine just above the pinions and juniper. Water country is above the arid broad valley. Tarry scant of the remaining blaze. History tells where Meek would have traveled and now we do in old faithful, on another road. A dry dusty trail quests thirst. Nature calls. Some drawings are educational, some capture the moment or season. I now have Omar’s note, you didn’t pay attention and must have been lost in the wood next to your car or on the trail. Odious and Merry Colorful Christmas. Bronze is forever. Other colors change as time passes. Nature … Red, black, then green.
      Stay safe if you are near the solid rock because history washes away footprints in the sand. The hidey place.

  1. I may be all wet, which is sorta normal,
    but i thought it was implied/stated it was not in a mine or cave. Oh well.

  2. It is half exposed as the poem tells you. Probably in a crevice. I don’t think it is in water but you have to through water or around it to get to it.

    • The poem tells you it’s half exposed? Amanda, I don’t interpret the poem that way.

      What in the poem says it’s half exposed?

  3. I think it’s within a small rocky outcropping next to a river or stream, possibly covered by a few rocks on top just to make it hard to see, but not particularly hard to get to.

    • Somebody should learn about proper capitalization. It could help in solving the
      poem. As always, IMO.

  4. In an opening amongst a pine thicket with a log laying over it.
    Not buried but covered well enough so as to not gump into it.

    • That seems reasonable; if the TC is not there, then two other places nearby can be searched . . . all on the same search hike. I’m lovin’ it. IMO.

        • It was a tidbit I ran across couple of years ago. In nature, the occurrence of two stacked stones could be coincidental…”three” stacked stones could be coincidental, but not likely. Three stacked stones(ducks) were common and sometimes included a pointer on top…wink wink.

          • This is interesting. I’ve forgotten that’s what they’re called. My first cairn I saw was an earthen one with a bent twig on top. I took a photo of it my first year not realizing what I was really seeing. When I got home, I looked at my photos and saw it and immediately thought of Mr. Fenn’s stick people. The following year I returned to my spot and checked it out, and found it to be just a earthen cairn. The Chase has been a lot of fun.

          • It is not surprising to not have remembered…this is not a common term…but true. The wink wink was to refer to the “one” duck with the pointer…

          • PD,
            I only offer suggestions… don’t listen to me… I’m ducking mad.
            I mean, I like Ducks.

      • Exactly. That “not associated ith a structure” comment should be taken with a grain of salt, IMHO.

        • Honestly. I’m going to put this only one time and no other sources looking for the treasure will receive what I’m about to say. Logic is key. Wise. Is logic. Focus of the one word. One word will solve the poem written. If you’ve been wise. And to what do you get before logic. First you need reason. Purpose. Or connection. Yellowstone has history and so does the whole Rocky Mountain reigion and only a deep connection can be received as a purpose. After purpose comes logic. Which comes wisdom afterwards. I’m just saving for my trip and I’ve gotten this figured out my using my areas of interest and using Forrest Fenns character. As a person. Before using the mountains. Don’t decipher his poem with the mountains. Decipher the poem with the author. Thanks.

          • Lots of one time drive by’s here.
            Honestly, you’re better off.
            See you in the mountains.

    • I am still haunted a little by the cairn that I dismantled but did not dig beneath in my second search trip detailed amongst my entrees in the others adventures section. The cairn was right where I thought the poem led but by the time I physically got there I could not believe the position was appropriate. Felt too exposed to be the hidey spot. I also was firm in the belief that Fenn did not bury it. I did not take the search too seriously at the time but now wish I had probed the earth with a stick at least.

      • I’ve done the same thing. It’s hard to dig when you have convinced yourself
        it’s not buried.

      • FF originally intended to throw his body on the chest and had wording for such in a previous version of the poem that said something along the lines of ‘Take the treasure chest but leave my bones…’.

        If the treasure chest were buried, he’d essentially have 2 choices:

        1) Throw himself on the ground above where the chest is buried and leave some other type of clue with his bones to:
        a) indicate that these are his remains (for an active searcher), who would presumably have found this spot and knows to dig here, OR
        b) communicate to an accidental finder of his bones that there is a treasure buried beneath his bones.

        For either to work, FF would have to ensure that his body remained above the chest (and not get carted off by some hungry wild animal, for example) and that his clue also remained (didn’t deteriorate in the weather, get blown away by the wind, etc.).

        2) Dig up the chest and:
        a) Throw himself in the hole with it, leaving both unearthed
        b) Engineer a way to rebury the treasure chest with him on top of it

        Each of these dig up scenarios, IMO, aren’t plausible, because FF digging up the chest presumably would negate clues in the poem that direct the searcher to dig here, etc., and I am not sure FF wants to take that away from the person who comes up with the winning solve.

        IMO, it is much more plausible that the chest is hidden (which includes the possibility of it being only partially buried) which makes throwing himself on the treasure chest a very real possibility and such action would not otherwise detract from the solve for his published poem.

        Just food for thought and IMO.

        • VERY nice summation for the

          “if you are within 10 feet, I doubt you could miss it”


        • If lots of people have been within 500 feet how do searchers reconcile that fact with long hikes from their vehicle. Some say they have to hike 2 miles or more one way. Then how is it that so many people have ended up in the same search area within 500 feet? A very long hike doesn’t seem to jibe with so many people ending up near the treasure with the incorrect solve. I abandoned a “solve” because it was over a mile from a drivable road. Not laziness! I just believe the TC HAS to be somewhat near a road, otherwise all of these incorrect solves would not put people so close. Am i right?

          • Aaron;

            A trail might bring people within 500′, but do they know they are that close? Did people just tell Forrest that they were on “Mountain Trail A” that may be 15 miles long, And Forrest knows that Indulgence is a ways off of “Mountain Trail A” at mile marker two – so they walked right on past it – Yet, to Forrest, he says that they had been within 500′ or even 200′. – and just did not know it. Just a thought – JDA

          • JDA, it seems feasible that a trail, road, or pull out, could bring lots of people within 500′ of the treasure. If that were the case then he would know that lots of people have been within 500′ of the treasure without being told where someone was, but some apparently did. The question is what brought the 200 footers from 500′ to 200′, and were the 200 footers in the same place as the 500 footers or did they approach from a different direction?

          • Excellent points Aaron and JDA. I tend to be pessimistic and talk myself out of solutions rather than force fitting reality into my solve like it seems a lot of people do. Leave reality alone! It does just fine by itself (like Hamburger Helper)

          • Aaron;

            Let’s say that the 500 footers were at a waterfall that is adjacent to a trail. People stop at the waterfall and tell Forrest. Then they go on by.

            Someone, looking at the waterfall notices a bunch of flowers, or a rock outcrop or what-ever. They leave the trail to investigate, and tell Forrest about what they found. Forrest now knows that they have been within 200′ (By accident) because they “Stopped to smell the roses” – haha – JDA

          • Aaron;

            Since they were searchers, possibly the rock outcrop they thought was a blaze – but was not the one Forrest had in mind – but close-by – JDA

          • JDA, both of those seem feasible. It is clear that the searchers didn’t get far enough into the clues to find the real blaze. It would be fun to know if the close searchers that didn’t realize where they were were able to find some faux blaze.

          • Could be that searchers left the poem, but to speculate where those folks might have been is moot, the one that finds chest it may be obvious.

            I wouldn’t worry about 200’ or 500’ or even try to use those numbers as a means to locate the treasure. Stick to the clues.

  5. This doesn’t seem to be The Hidey Place, it seems to be a BS place.
    No one can use what is written here, for information.

    • IT’s all BSing Sam.

      If your looking for information from bloggers.. lol.. ya might as well throw the poem in the trash. Bloggers, Searchers, Explorers or whatever anyone wants to be called, are simple talking about.. WhatIFs
      But, ya can rent a boat and paddle anywhere on the swamp, I’m sure many folks will be happy to tell you.. they have all the information you’re looking for.

    • The important information is in the poem. On everything else, I agree with Seeker’s comment.

  6. IMI (In My Interpretation) of the poem, it is almost certainly “in” something, but in saying that you’d have to consider other hints – like that it is still subject to the elements…

    I have my wager on a stone pile/formation large enough that a man could fit in (or partially in) to deposit the chest and I’d also wager that those stones are in close proximity to a flowing body of water. If you pick apart some of the words that Fenn uses to describe the resting place of the chest, it is hard to consider much else IMO. It also goes perfectly along with several other statements made by Fenn, both in the poem and otherwise. These are paraphrased, but you’ll at least see where I am coming from:
    – MANY times Fenn has said that he doesn’t want anyone to get hurt – this is important with a phrase from the poem
    – “I have gone alone IN there” – could be interpreted as “the wood”, like “in nature”, but I suspect otherwise.
    – “look quickly down your quest to cease” – I personally believe that this sort of helps the theory that it is in something. I just don’t fathom the chest , very obviously looking like something of value, is completely in the open. If it were, IMO, someone will have incidentally found it or it would be a strong possibility which Fenn himself has already put to rest that the probability of an accidental discovery is highly unlikely if not impossible.
    – “but tarry scant with marvel gaze” – This is the part of the poem that I think points back to Fenn’s not wanting anyone to get hurt. He associates wherever you are right now (looking at the chest) with, at minimum, a potential for some level of danger – to keep you safe he specifically tells us here not to stay in this place for an extended period of time, thus minimizing the potential for harm. “linger short with curious admiration”.

    Obviously these are all just opinions, and I while I have what I consider a solid theory – I haven’t been to my theorized resting place. Curious to see what some others think!

    Happy Contemplating!

    • Don, IMO tarry scant means to get the chest ans get out before someone else sees you. I keep thinking that the hidey space was special to him as a boy or young man. If that is true then the very private space may not be so private anymore. I think it is relative close, less than 500 ft, to a road but out of sight of the road.
      Also IMO “gone in there alone” could very well mean a Park or forest.
      All speculation on my part.
      He has stated that it is not a man made structure.

      • Yes that is my fear. When you are in a place like that it is hard to believe that it could be the hidey spot. If he ever really considered dying there it would certainly not be appropriate to be in plain sight. The treasure would be found as quickly as the body.

      • Not Obsessed, please tell us specifically where “He
        has stated that it is not a man made structure”.
        In other words, show us where we can find that
        statement. Thanks in advance.

      • Tighterfocus: I would ask for clarification from Not Obsessed — what is “it” in his sentence “He has stated that it is not a man made structure.” What isn’t? Obviously the chest IS a manmade structure.

        AFAIK, the only public quote from Forrest that is germane is this one from Scrapbook 35: “I said on the Today show that the treasure is not associated with any structure. Some people say I have a desire to mislead. That is not true. There are no notes to be found or safety deposit boxes to be searched. The clues can lead you to the treasure, and it will be there waiting when you arrive.”

        *Treasure* is not associated. Multiple ways to read that. The least restrictive is that the specific location of the chest is not associated with any structure. But he didn’t unambiguously say that *none* of the clues are associated with any structure. Still: I trust Cynthia’s private email exchange that she shared with us: that home of Brown isn’t associated with a structure. And based on that, I’ve extrapolated that to mean that none of the clues are. But I wouldn’t kill a solution based on that assumption.

        • “I don’t know how Toponymy can help you at all Chris (I had to look that word up). But if you knew the geographic location of each clue it would be a map to the treasure. f.”

          As they same in comics;
          ‘NUFF SAID

  7. Good morning folks. Being the magician I think he is, I’m thinking it very well could be in plain sight, perhaps a cairn as PDenver suggested above.


  8. I think you will find it on the ground, below the blaze, in a scary place, by a dry creek, too far to drive to, after you have turned at the Brown house below a hot spring. That’s what I think…

  9. I’ve just been to Edinburgh Castle to retrieve the Treasure Chest, I am now back home sitting on top of it.

    Ronnie the Scot

  10. It’s inside a hollowed out petrified fallen tree. It’s at the end of the log though where it’s too dark to see the chest. So you will have to be brave to crawl in there. But once you begin to crawl towards the chest you are “brave and IN the wood”.

  11. A lot of opinions have been given to the ‘hidey space’. Which of the following do you think is most likely?
    ♢ Lying on the surface. (hidden by rock(s), bark, or other debris).
    ♢ In or under something wood. (a tree, log, stump, etc.).
    ♢ Under something rock. (a space under a boulder or pile of rocks etc.).
    ♢ A hole in the ground. (covered by a rock (or rocks), bark, or other).
    ♢ Buried in the ground. (covered with dirt, sand, gravel or mud).
    ♢ Other. (ideas?).

    • “Which of the following do you think is most likely?”

      ♢ Other: number one on my most-likely list is “not in the wet part of Great Salt Lake.”

      Beyond that I won’t speculate – there is no number two on that list.

      Why subconsciously handicap or harden one’s mind’s-eye so far in advance of being in its vicinity? Better to go with soft eyes, open to everything. You spot the owl or hawk hidden in the branches with a slightly indirect and unfocused look, and let the form come to you rather than trying to force-stare it out of the surroundings.


      • I like that, Jake. I’ve always believed that old saying ….good things come to those who wait.
        Might as well enjoy the wait, right?

      • I believe that a BOTG search with no idea of what the ‘hidey space’ might be or look like is a handicap.

      • U win lol. And I stumble over logs the whole time in Yellowstone so it ain’t under a log

    • Hi randawg…..all is just in my opinion.

      The hidey spot….is a place that will play tribute to long lost warriors of past conflicts…. AND probably will be like what he tells us in TTOTC….like the gravestones he found in Nam…..

      I envision FF placing the chest in tall grass, in a meadow, and one will just…”happen” upon it, as he did with the gravestones. It is concealed, not buried, yet it sort of is, and someone will know right where to go.

      “Buried” and lost forever, until found by chance.

      I also DON’T think FF really wants that, because he chose not to die with the chest, but instead, give someone else a piece of his life – one will be reliving or reenacting the same moment he did. Why not with the chest.

      That is a thrill…..don’t you think?

      • Given Fenn’s interests, I do think it’s probable that the spot has had human occupation in the past.
        But I don’t believe it’s in a place that would likely ever be found by chance.

        • “But I don’t believe it’s in a place that would likely ever be found by chance.” – randawg

          Logic dictates that “someone” found the hidey spot by chance. The only other option is that Mr. Fenn had prior knowledge of the spot before he went there. But then the person passing along the information to him would have been the person that happened upon the spot. I hope you are all able to follow my line of thinking on this. Either Mr. Fenn found it, or the information was passed along over the generations person to person.

          I suspect Mr. Fenn found the spot at an earlier time in his life, (maybe with someone else along with, maybe not), and then “kept an eye on it”, to see if others happened upon it. When he observed that no one did “stumble across” the spot, he knew he had found a spot to hide Indulgence.

          The other possibility is that Mr. Fenn was on the receiving end of information passed along down through the generations, and knowing he was the last one in line with that particular bit of information, he chose instead to pass along that bit of information through this chase.

          If it is the second reason, then many of us have been looking at this chase the wrong way.

          IMO, that’s why no one has found it yet.

          • Swwot;

            I think it is the former, not the latter. I think that Forrest found this special spot as a boy, and that he has many, many special memories of things done here. The views are terrific, the wildlife abundant and the perfect “fort” for a boy of 10 – 12. The perfect “Hidey Hole”.

            Forrest, Skippy, and probably their Dad know/knew of this “Special” place. “Special” because of the many memories created here.

            I think that it also has significance related to Forrest’s interest in Native American life in the past.

            All just supposition on my part – JDA

          • I have wondered if there is a picture in the chest of either him and a friend or one of them at the hidey space years ago. That would be a nice addition to the treasure.

          • Of course Fenn or one of his family members originally found the spot by chance. I meant that a searcher (or random hiker) is not likely to.

          • I believe that all of you are on to something… I’ve been thinking along these lines for some time myself…. An undiscovered archeological site, littered with relics! Unfortunately, it doesn’t make the task of finding it any easier… Now we are looking for an otherwise unimpressive site whose archeological significance can only be determined by botg…
            It seems to only broaden the possibilities!

          • And far enough off of the beaten path that it hasn’t been discovered by accident…

        • Hi swwot: my guess is that Forrest and his father (and maybe Skippy, too) found the general area together during one of their family summer trips. It’s unlikely that Marvin could have been told of this spot as a boy himself: not too easy to get to Wyoming or Montana (assuming the chest is in one of those two states) from Texas in the 1920s or earlier. It would be interesting to know when Marvin first went to Yellowstone — perhaps Dal knows.

          But there would be a difference between Forrest being taken to the general location as a boy, and the *specific* location in that area that Forrest chose to hide the chest. And I’m reminded of the paragraph from Flywater:

          “Those great places, which were personal secrets to me then, are now busy with the flourish of fishermen and women who cast a midge or floating cadis upon those same waters, never knowing I had been there, or even caring yes or no. I always thought that space was mine alone, and many of the memories there bred are even now still so personal that they exclude the intrusion of strangers. How dare they go there?”

          If the hiding place is not far from popular fishing waters, it might not be surprising that so many have been within 500 feet of the chest (and quite unawares). But thankfully, this isn’t horseshoes (double omegas not withstanding); close doesn’t count.

          • Zap,

            Mr. Fenn has said something along the lines of, “Two people can keep a secret, if one of them is dead.” It is my opinion that if Indulgence is not found before Mr. Fenn passes, the secret dies out of “waking human knowledge”. And until Indulgence is picked up in the wood, that secret is safe with Mr. Fenn.

            I am not so sure that it is within 200 or 500 feet of a fishing stream, because I have my doubts that he found this spot as a boy. He may have, but my hunch is that he found it because he was looking for it, or at least something like it. I think that way because nobody else seems to have “stumbled upon it”, and nobody will. We really need to start thinking like Mr. Fenn, not so much about Mr. Fenn. But what do I know, I don’t have Indulgence, do I?

          • Hi Swwot,

            “Mr. Fenn has said something along the lines of, “Two people can keep a secret, if one of them is dead.” Yes: this is another one of those aberrations/anomalies — he altered the Ben Franklin quote: “Three can keep a secret, if two of them are dead.”

            “It is my opinion that if Indulgence is not found before Mr. Fenn passes, the secret dies out of “waking human knowledge”.

            Ah, but which secret? The secret of the chest’s location, or the secret of who else knew? Or both? I’m not on my home computer to check my files for the exact quote, but I believe Forrest once said that his father would know where he hid the chest.

          • Zap,

            Yes, both secrets at once. I do think that this was his intention all along and he has lived longer than he himself thought he would. Hope that doesn’t come across as too morbid, but I am beginning to wonder if the whole “experience” of the search would be at its current fever pitch if he had passed within a year of his placing the chest in the wood? But that’s a whole ‘nuther rabbit hole.

            It’s another reason I tend to think that he found the hidey spot later in life. It is my opinion he wanted folks to research him and his work, not necessarily his life – if that makes any sense. FWIW

  12. As I have gone alone in there?
    I personally think that only one person can fit,
    according to Mr.Fenn, so maybe a ?

    • Or maybe a narrow little passageway between stone walls – A tiny “Box Canyon” so to speak – JDA

    • Martha,

      Somewhere F said it wasn’t in a tree. I can’t quote F as I can’t remember where he said that.

      JDA, Seeker, etc. HELP!

      • CharlieM: I can’t find a direct quote from Forrest where he claims the treasure chest isn’t in a tree, though I certainly think that idea is inconsistent with his original plan: “I told myself that with my last gasping breath, I was going to fling himself on top of that treasure chest and let my bones go back to the dirt.” Also, trees don’t live forever and are vulnerable to forest fires, bark beetles, landslides, etc. Forrest said he tried to think of everything, and if so, hiding the chest in a tree wouldn’t be very sage.

        On a related note, there was this MW Q&A from 6/24/2014:

        “Did you really say the blaze is a white streak, as has been rumored? Thank you. ~Deb”

        Forrest’s reply:

        “Thanks Deb, No, I did not say that. There is a lot of bad information floating around the blogs and many posts that are not well thought out. One person said (I’m paraphrasing) “He said the treasure is hidden in the trees. Then he contradicted himself and said it was in the sun. How could it be both.” Makes me wonder if that person has ever been in the forest.f”

        • Zap-
          The “white streak” blaze concept started with me. I was sitting in Forrest’s office while he was being interviewed by the press. The journalist asked him a sort of rhetorical question about the blaze and Forrest responded by asking the question right back…
          He said something like-
          What is a blaze? A horse’s white mark on his forehead is a blaze….and then Forrest mentioned several other things that could be called a blaze… I noted immediately that all these things seemed to be white…
          After this interview the journalist and I went over to Desertphiles ranch where the first Fennboree was being held. While there I was discussing this “blaze” moment with Desertphile and I mentioned that I thought it was curious that all the examples of a blaze that Forrest mentioned, were white. I further said that I wondered if that could mean that the blaze was white.
          Someone eavesdropping on our conversation heard what I said and contorted it to say that Forrest said the blaze is white…
          In fact…Forrest never said that…
          I simply wondered about it based on the examples of blazes that he named…
          But this person went ahead and made the all “untrue” statement on several blogs that Forrest said -the blaze is white-
          Forrest never said that.
          We must be very cautious of “quotes” that cannot be cited.

        • Could this be a mistake by FF and mentioning the chest is in a forest?

          “…..Makes me wonder if that person has ever been in the forest.f”


      • CharlieM-
        The “not in a tree” thought came from Stephanie very early in the chase. She reported that Forrest wrote or told her-
        “It’s not in a tree but it’s surrounded by trees. Of course everything is surrounded by trees if you go out far enough.”
        Some folks believe it…some do not…
        This was at a time when Stephanie’s word was trusted and also at a time when she and Forrest were communicating via email regularly…
        I personally have always taken it as a true quote from Forrest…but he has never claimed it as far as I know.

        • I had never given that statement a second thought but it’s interesting that she said (that he said) “surrounded by trees”.
          He could have said “there are trees nearby” but he chose to say surrounded which means “to enclose on all sides”. In that context ‘everything’ in a given search area is not surrounded by trees.

          • @randawg, this tree comment is much like his “no need to move large rocks” comment. Why “large” rocks, are we to assume that it may be required to move rocks that are not considered large?

          • Everything Mr Fenn says should be considered a potential clue. Especially when he makes comments as to the specific nature of the hidey space.

    • Seems to me that ithe chest must have rocks around it, or it’s in a crevice as you suggest for it to be stable for centuries as Fenn intended. Also, I do not expect to find it in an “open” area, like a meadow. With Fenn’s comment about there not being a human trail in close vicinity, yet he knows that more than one searcher has walked past within 200 feet, I think the treasure is in a narrow canyon or ravine.

      • Tom B, if you believe that FF knows that more than one SEARCHER — for the FF treasure chest — has walked past the TC within 200 feet of it, please tell us where you got this info.

        Thanks in advance.

        • Tighterfocus: Forrest used the plural “searchers” in this quote (Forrest Gets Mail #9):

          Q: “Are there signs that people are getting closer to solving your puzzle? How many clues have people solved now?”

          FF: “Searchers have come within about 200 feet. Some may have solved the first four clues, but I am not certain.”

          “Searchers” not “a searcher.” At the risk of repeating myself, there is further proof from “The Lure” post-screening Q&A (May 18th, 2017):

          “How do you know searchers have been within 200 feet of the treasure?”

          Forrest answers: “Well, because there … people have told me exactly where they were, and that’s the only reason I know. And, and, that 200 feet I think is pretty accurate. But there weren’t very many people within 200 … lots of people within 500 feet of the treasure. But, uh, the people that were with(in) 200 feet didn’t know that they were that close to the treasure, and they walked right on by. And of course I would never tell ‘em that, ‘cuz they’d, uh, they’d try to remember where they had been.”

          Pretty cut and dried to me. More than one searcher has been within about 200 feet.

  13. On the question of features of the hidey place, there is one possible clue from the Santa Fe New Mexican story:

    “Even if Fenn wanted to stop people from following clues published in a poem at the end of his memoir, The Thrill of the Chase, there is no way to make that happen. No one dedicated to the hunt would listen, he said, unless he retrieved the treasure himself and posted a photo of the gold on the internet, all covered in mud from the wilderness where it is hidden.”

    • But Zap-
      That is not a quote from Forrest…
      That is simply summarizing what Forrest told the writer and it is not in quotes so it is second party hearsay…just saying…
      I know Bruce and I trust him as a journalist and suspect that the non quote is accurate…but still…
      It’s not in quotes so I can only assume that it is summarized rather than the exact words of Forrest…

      • Apologies — I should have made it unambiguously clear that the quotes were from the journalist’s article, not verbatim information from Forrest. So there is opportunity for journalistic license with the comment about mud (though it would seem to be an unusual detail to include if the idea hadn’t been put in his head by Forrest).

        • “Mr. Fenn, In your interview with New Mexico True Stories, you mentioned that you know that the treasure is wet. I checked out the date of that interview and it looks like you said that in a February, which could mean that you knew that it had snowed or rained at the site of the treasure chest, or simply because of higher water.
          Now we are in mid-summer, and if we assume that no storms have passed through recently, would you know that the treasure is wet now? ~Thanks, B

          Wet + dirt = mud Who woulda thunk it? JDA

          • OOPS cut off reply – sorry
            Yes B, physics tells me the treasure is wet”. f – NOW wet + dirt = mud etc. JDA

  14. Buried. Under the ground. Bring a shovel and leave that flashlight in your rig. I’m asking Santa for a big red shovel!

    • Copper – Forrest has said that no tools are required. It MAY be “buried” but I lean more towards Interred. – more to the idea of a hollowed out place with Indulgence placed inside and probably a “capstone” placed over it.
      . In “Charmay and Me” in TFTW Forrest describes the following: “…I carefully removed the flagstone lid. To our astonishment, we discovered a black, smoke-smudged pottery jar that had been buried up to its rim under the floor. Inside the jar rested a rectangular painted bowl….”
      This pretty much describes what I think the searcher will find once he/she finds Indulgence – JMO – JDA

  15. Hmmmm. So you could simply sweep the sand or dirt away perhaps? Not necessarily dig but uncover the top layer? Interesting. But I hope you are wrong because my metal detector didn’t pick anything up. And if he didn’t bury his treasure there then I’m going to bury my own, because this place is truly the best.

    I’m also asking Santa for a better metal detector because I’m pretty sure my Dad got mine from Walmart. There were no beeps that day. What a sad day that was.

  16. FF said (paraphrasing)- my father would know where I hid the treasure.

    He also said in one of the books (TFTW , I think) they would hide their stuff at the end of each summer so it didn’t have to be driven all the back to Texas.

    My summation is that TC is hidden either where they would hide their stuff, some kind of hollowed out hole or space that could be covered in some way or in a similar place that his father would recognize instantly upon reading the poem.

    Just my thoughts.

  17. Sean: can you provide the quote wherein Forrest indicated his father would know where he hid the treasure? I agree with the premise for my own reasons, but I have not read anything direct from Forrest that supports it.

    • I read that as well. It’s in-between. A stop off. The midway point was always the most exciting. I don’t have the quote but I remember reading it. I remember my Dad taking me duck hunting one fall. We were shooting ptarmigan. The best part was the gas station on the way to Manley. It’s the anticipation. It’s being with your parents.

    • Zap,

      No, I can’t. I don’t keep my own database (yet) but I’ve read it a few times so I believe it’s accurate. I couldn’t find it on a quick search of TarryScant. I know that violates the strict standards of accountability we have here (which I love, btw) but I will keep my eyes out and post when I see it again.

  18. If you had a valuable item to hide in the woods how would you go about it? I don’t mean the special place you chose, but the actual ‘spot’. If you were in a hurry you might push it into the space under a boulder or cover it with bark or leaf litter. Or maybe scoop out a shallow ‘grave'(?)
    But if you had lots of time, …or even years to think about it I’m sure you could do better than that. It would be a spot that would be safe and secure and provide protection for the object. And look natural as if nobody had ever been there before. A place that would not be disturbed accidentally by things like erosion or animals (or humans). The spot would be cleverly thought out yet simple in concept.
    I like the idea of a shallow hole just deep enough for the object to fit into covered by a rock or rocks. Simple but effective. As a wise man once said: “Rock is permanent. I like rock.”

    • Randawg;

      If you have TFTW – Look at the illustration in “Charmay and Me.” I think that you will see exactly what you describe. I personally think that in this chapter, Forrest is describing, almost exactly, what the searcher will find when he/she finds Indulgence – JMO – JDA

      • P.S. I think that the stacked-stone wall shown behind the “pit” or “Hidey-hole” will be significant too – JMO – JDA

        • JDA

          I like the chaper “Cultures on Top of Cultures” on page 134 and the illustrations. Great poem there too. This one is in OUAW.

          I see things,


      • I have also thought the pic on page 218 was significant JD. If corn kernels can last 500 years in such a place then gold should fare pretty well too.
        Mr Fenn is very knowledgeable on how ancient man preserved things and I’m sure that influenced the logistics of how he hid the chest.

      • Randawg.

        You would be amazed at what little modern men know and realize about our early ancestors.
        Good luck.

  19. This is in my own string of notes, and I didn’t put a reference, so I don’t remember where I found it….

    “FF has said some kid looking for a new fishing hole is the person most likely to find it accidentally.”

    Anyone recognize this, and is it valid, or not?

    • Hi HaydukeCC: don’t know how much validity to attach to that. It was a statement (not a Fenn quote) made by whomever mrt41114 is on another blog.

  20. Hear Me All,

    All of the below is IN MY HUMBLE OPINION:

    The Hidey Space

    I have found a large rock blaze in my search area. It has a big opening on one side, and there is only a dark shadow below it. However, with GE I can get a good angle in front of the opening, and by reflected light, I can make out specific shapes under this rock blaze.

    The first is a cylinder shaped bottle or can, straight sides, with a beveled top. It looks like a metal can just sitting there, straight up. It is conceivable that this is some kind of trash left by a past hiker.

    I also see a strange hour glass shaped thing that looks like a light, with purple on top and white on the bottom. This is the most out of place shape you would expect to find under a rock in the middle of nowhere. It appears to be connected to something behind it.

    In the photo, I also see another very cool thing. The shape is like something I have seen in the books written by Forrest Fenn. Very compelling indeed.

    I took several photos until I got one which allows the enhancement to show the items. Looking under a rock from outer space is not an exact science of course. Until now, I didn’t even realize I could do this.

    I am following the clues, and this rock blaze does fit within the parameters of the steps in the poem. It is not the only one I have found. There is actually another one which forms a perfect F in the rocks.

    For me this is frustrating because I did not check these things out the last time I was in this area. These blaze possibilities are all on the other side of my creek, and outside of my canyon down. All of my previous explorations had been within the canyon itself.

    “Imagination is more important then knowledge”

  21. Keep in mind that Forrest parked his car and made two trips to the hiding spot and back without being discovered. And, he must have expected that the chances of him being discovered were minimal, in order to even take the chance. I suggest that taking this into consideration can eliminate a significant percentage of proposed hiding places.

    • I agree, and that goes through my mind often when I see lots of various posts around the innerwebs.

      • @HaydukeCC,

        As an IT professional, I must ask…

        What is an “innerweb”? LOL

        Internet, Intranet, WideAreaNet, MetroNet, LocalAreaNet, WorlWideWeb, and many others, but now we have an “InnerWeb”? C’mon! 🙂

        • ha, it was sarcasm, used often among computer nerds. I held back on using “teh innerwebs”. Gore would have been proud.


          • Thanks for appreciating my sense of humor.

            BTW, I have enjoyed your posts here on (aka dalnet, interwebb)

            You obviously have a lot of experience in the Montana / Wyoming search region …

            Best of luck on your future searching!


    • he would just have to avoid peak tourist season so later in the fall made sense when school had started or was close to starting.

  22. Thank you Dal for keeping the quotes straight.; means a lot to me.

    Just got back from my third expedition…Colorado is cold at 10,000 feet and I will bring oxygen if I ever go back there again …no place for old biddies or a flatlander for that matter. Feeling blessed, be safe everyone!
    Most perplexing to me is “…in the wood…”. Insights anyone?

    • Boaz

      This is just my opinion:

      “If you are brave and in the wood” might just mean you were like a Native American brave, or scout, who followed the signs correctly to lead his people to the new desired destination. The part about being “in the wood” may mean simply, that the new location is just somewhere in the mountains, or it could mean the wood inside the treasure chest itself.

      Some of my thoughts here. Just opinions.


  23. So I’m wondering if the original hidey space that FF thought of back in 1988/89 is the same space where he ultimately hid the TC? Is it possible that there is more than one spot that would qualify as having “precious memories” and lots of meaning to him? Did he say definitively, that there was and is only one place?

    • Box-
      You should listen to the Moby Dickens Books Signing video…maybe 3 or so minutes in Forrest says the following:
      “My plan was … If I was going to die of cancer … They said I had a one in five chance of living three years. They told me I had a year probably anyway. I decided I knew where I was going to hide the treasure chest. I told myself with my last gasping breath I was going to go out there and fling myself on that treasure chest and let my bones go back to the dirt. It was a great plan. The trouble with it was that I got well and ruined the story.”

      The video is here:

      A transcription of the video is here:

      There are other places as well, where Forrest ties together the place where he wanted to end his life as the place where the chest is hidden…

      • Thank you so much Dal! I will check that out. My compliments to you on an exceptionally thorough and beautifully put -together website.
        – BT

  24. Also, I seem to recall an interview where FF talks about “looking down” at the TC spot, as from the “crest” of a hill. I specifically remember him using the word “crest”. Does this ring a bell for anyone?

  25. I used to think the treasure was at my “X” marks the spot location, until I went there and it wasn’t! Now I believe the correct solve puts you close to the chest but you still have to walk around and search a little to spot it. Am I imagining this or has Forrest said that after you solve the poem, or solve the 9 clues, there is still some more work or searching to be done? Or is it other searchers only who have said something like this?

    • I can only recall Fenn saying that the clues would “lead you right to it”. This is why I think the blaze must somehow mark the spot. Or else how would one go about pin-pointing a 10″ X 10″ box in the wilderness, even if you did narrow it down to, say, a few hundred yards?

    • Mr. Fenn: How far is the chest located from the blaze? ~ casey. Casey, I did not take the measurement, but logic tells me that if you don’t know where the blaze is it really doesn’t matter. If you can find the blaze though, the answer to your question will be obvious. Does that help?f.

    • If you find the eight clues, then you will be close to the treasure. IMO

      But the poem says “if wise” then talks about being “brave” and about “wood”.

      Fen said he does not like trails.

      Then one would expect him to leave some trail and enter the forest to hide the treasure.

      Keeping this in mind and remembering that he walked “less than a few miles” to hide the treasure in two journeys on foot:

      You can imagine that he has hidden the treasure a ~ 1/2 mile from where he stopped the car. I M H O

      And he made it clear that the BLAZE could only be found BOTG.

  26. not at all. If u have solved clues up to the blaze, u know how tricky they are and I don’t think it is simple.

  27. Bringing the 200 and 500 foot discussion over here on this thread – or at least trying to.

    OK gang, without giving too much away, which means I have to be somewhat vague, I can see in my mind’s eye how folks can be in both camps at the same time. And this has been hashed about most thoroughly, I believe.

    But here’s what I want to add to stir things up a bit. Has Mr. Fenn definitively said that he hid the “gold and trinkets” inside Indulgence? Or has it always been inferred? We know the olive jar and his biography are inside the chest, but could the “loot” be someplace else “in the wood”? We know he took two trips from his vehicle, but does he emphatically say he went to the same spot twice AND put the loot inside Indulgence? This is another way that a person could be both 200 and 500 feet away from the “treasure”, by being between them.

    I know that some of you are quote search experts and can either bolster my assumption or shoot it down pretty quick. If Indulgence and the “loot” are separate, how does that affect the nine clues being used to find them both?

    • Swwot: I’m pretty sure I can dig up a quote for you that assures that the loot is inside the chest… give me a few minutes…

    • Look at Scrapbook 163 – It says: “It took you two trips from your car to get ALL of the treasure to THE HIDING SPOT (singular) because it weighed 42 pounds? (Combination of chest and contents)

      Caps and Parens are my inserts to highlight important items – JDA

    • Okay, I’d start with the Richard Eeds interview. I think the following extract may address your point:

      Eeds: So, gold 6-7 years ago. $800-$900 an ounce? Or was it over a thousand?

      Fenn: Yeah, I think it was like $1200-$1300 an ounce. But you know, if you read the prognosis on gold, they’re saying it’s going to go to $5000 an ounce. When that happens, this treasure chest is going to be worth a lot of money.

      Dal: But it’s not just gold that’s in there right? We’ve seen some of the things that are in there.

      Fenn: Well there’s two little carved ancient Chinese jade carved carvings. [how’s that for redundancy?!]

      Eeds: Right

      Fenn: There are some pre-Columbian gold figures. Waka’s, and cast gold frogs that date … and there’s a beautiful Tyrolian and Sinu necklace that dates to 2,000 years old with wonderful fetishes made with quartz crystal. And cast gold jaguar claws and it’s, it’s … The person that finds that treasure chest and puts it on his lap and opens that lid is going to faint or start laughing. One of the two.

      Dal: Forrest, this chest weighs 42 pounds.

      Eeds: But it’s small enough to put on your lap.

      Fenn: Well there are 20.2 troy pounds of gold in that treasure chest, and 265 gold coins. And a lot of them have numismatic value way beyond the spot of gold.

      • OK – white flag is waving. I don’t want to get fixated on a possible solution. But some things got a little easier if there were two caches in the wood. Thanx folks!

        • Sorry to help burst your bubble Swwot – Keep pluggin’ away guy. You will get it yet – JDA

  28. I haven’t contributed anything of substance in awhile (mourned my dear white Persian cat, Lila; retired from one of my jobs [more time for searching!]; gardening like a madwoman), so here’s something that may help someone:

    Indochine soldiers were repatriated and buried standing up.

  29. A possibility for the nature of the hidey space. Many searchers have rightly focused on the first line of the poem — specifically the words “in there,” and have tried to resolve that with Forrest’s statements that the treasure is not in a mine, cave or tunnel. Some have suggested that in a forest works okay, and I agree. But there’s another possibility potentially hinted at by a couple Scrapbooks. Compare this picture of the Mummy Joe cave from SB 92:

    with the fourth picture in SB 172 from San Lazaro pueblo:

    Now, with those two images in your mind, consider the last stanza from Invictus that Forrest slightly misquoted at the very end of the Moby Dickens bookshop video on 11/2/2013:

    Out of the night that covers me,
    Dark is the pit from pole to pole,
    I thank whatever gods may be
    For my unconquerable soul.

    Forrest then concludes with “I think that’s a good place to stop, don’t you?”


    • More stump references. The picture of the stumps was also at night.
      Thanks for sharing.

      • How about…*Doug Hyde in stone*….? There are many of these throughout the writings. Are they *hints*, nudges…or just good stories?
        The *correct* interpretation of Fenn’s poem holds the answers.

        • For me, they are far more than jusat “good stories.” I see the Two sculptures – One “Rotund one” – 24″ tall. One more slender 27″ tall, with “Ear lobes” or ear rings dangling down as “hints”. They fit into my solve as “Guardian Warriors”.

          He also mentions hundreds of stones lying around, and also 20 stones and a Marquee – I think that these are also hints – but what do I know? – Probably NADA – JDA

    • Hi Zap, the term ‘in there’ can be understood as a pitt based on those hints you listed. Any other line in the poem can be used to describe that hidey place???

      • Picture #4 in the second link is of a Kiva. I think that this well could be a hint – but who knows? If a “Kiva-like” place, how is one to get to the bottom and out again? Any hints left around regarding this? HUMMMM??? JDA

      • Oz10: perhaps “look quickly down” 😉 For a couple years I’ve actually had a pretty clever answer to the meaning of those pictures and the Invictus reference, but I felt it was safe to at least share the links and let people ponder their possible connections.

        • Got it. It seems like oversimplification of the clues and hints but it doesn’t make it less probable that it is in a pitt.

        • Hi Oz10: it’s hard to hold a pit in “high regard,” so no, I don’t think the treasure is in a pit. I think it’s just part of a hint to a landmark.

      • Foundations of an abandoned hut. Like on FF’s nephew’s farm.

        They are just stones heaped together, they are not exactly a structure.

        It can be considered a gap.

        They demarcate an “In” perimeter.

    • exactly Zap… why do you think he writes “Well”…. at the beginning of some sentences in TTOTC… he never “Talks” in such a manner.

      • Hi James — yes, he does start over 20 sentences in TTOTC with “Well”. There is also A Farewell to Arms. 😉

        • how many sentences exact Zap? 22 or 23? I forget.

          IMHO if you have the number correct that’s hinting at something that will lead you to the TC location if you have the right “your creek”

        • Hi James — 22 occasions as the first word in a sentence, including the first word of the first chapter. 8 other instances when not appearing as the first word in the sentence.

          • Lol… Now I understand why you recently posted that ff has given hundreds of hints everywhere. Can we give ff some flexibility in how he wants to start his sentences without calling it a hint? How else could he communicate? Conf. bias?

            Well, this sounds like an echo chamber. << see what I did there? that will be a hint.

          • Oz10: *I* don’t consider the word “well” to be a hint (except possibly for its ubiquitous LL/ELL that is found in the proper names that Forrest uses throughout his books). Maybe James does — I was just supplying the data he asked for. I’m a scientist — I know what confirmation bias is. And I also know when statistical anomalies are deliberate design elements.

          • I never had the occasion to be subjected to an echo chamber prior to this experience, before.

          • Zaphod, no humble pie??? Being a scientist didn’t give you any advantage over anybody else here. Accepting it is the first step.

          • Oz10: you are welcome to think that having an analytical mind doesn’t give me an advantage if it makes you feel better.

          • How’s that working out for ya Zap, seriously?

            I don’t know what kind of field of science you’re in… But a theory having many parts has to get past the first step to have a chance of working out. What part of your theory do you think stumped you?
            Legitimate question, Because it seems to me if you have correctly pass the third clue, and possibly the fourth… you should be well on your way to the chest.

            Not long ago fenn said some may have solved the first four clues, only he wasn’t certain.
            Then, his gut feeling about the chest might be found this summer. ‘Statistically’ if you have up to, or more than, 1/2 of theory correct… the rest should fall into place rather well.

            What ever happened to the idea of “What took me so long?” That we all should be saying to ourselves when all is said and done…
            I mean, as bright as you are, you claim the clues get harder as one moves through them. fenn claims they get ‘progressively easier’… you claim an analogical mind should give you an advantage, yet fenn has stated the challenge will be done mostly by imagination. Your process [ my opinion only ] is a coded solution. fenn has eliminated, the knowledge of codes and ciphers will not assist a searcher…

            I could go on… yet, all I’m hear is your thoughts / interpretations are completely opposite of what we have been told by the guy who blueprinted the poem.
            You were certain that you would produce a find this time out, came back running on empty, and still want to argue points of being analogical, and absolutely positive you’re in the correct spot.. with at least the first clue solved correctly.

            Throw us a bone… seriously. Something we can actually have a discussion over, without dancing around excuses [ on a blog dedicate to those type of discussions] and not how smart anyone is or is not, or how many pieces of framed paper is hanging on one’s wall.

          • So Seeker, how’s it working out for me? By what measure of success? If binary (i.e. chest or no chest), then it has worked just as poorly for me as for everyone else. If base-9, then I think I’m doing fine so far.

            “What part of your theory do you think stumped you?” To use Forrest’s words, if I knew that, I’d go right to the chest! 😉
            Wherever the miscue is, it’s not in the starting location (IMO).

            “Legitimate question, Because it seems to me if you have correctly pass the third clue, and possibly the fourth… you should be well on your way to the chest.”

            I know you and others keep toeing that line, but the evidence suggests that solving two clues in the first 2 years, or up to 4 clues in the first 5 years, has not led to an announcements of treasure recovery. Of course, you will counter that the people who have solved two clues or more had no idea they had done so, but I think that’s a cop-out.

            “‘Statistically’ if you have up to, or more than, 1/2 of theory correct… the rest should fall into place rather well.”

            When you reach the point of solving a few clues, you may feel differently about that.

            “What ever happened to the idea of “What took me so long?” That we all should be saying to ourselves when all is said and done…”

            I certainly had that feeling over the winter. Perhaps I’ll have it again someday. But I’ve already had a couple “what took me so long” moments in this Chase — the keyword and the starting location. Those shouldn’t have taken a year, but for me they did.

            “I mean, as bright as you are, you claim the clues get harder as one moves through them.”

            Whether a clue is hard or easy kind of depends on the person, don’t you think? Would you say the next letter in this series is easy or hard?

            O T T F F S S E ?

            My third clue had the same level of surprise for me as the first one, and subjectively I think it’s more difficult than the first. But I solved it faster than the first clue, so does that make it “easier”? What I’m trying to say is that Forrest claiming “they get progressively easier after you discover where the first clue is” is subjective. Hard to judge when you already know the answer.

            “… you claim an analogical mind should give you an advantage…”

            Puzzle-solving is a combination of many skills, including the ability to think logically or analytically. A person who is not organized or systematic in their problem-solving approaches is going to spend a lot of time chasing rabbits down unprofitable holes. Doesn’t mean they won’t ultimately find the solution, but efficiency is a consideration when you aren’t the only one in the race.

            “Your process [ my opinion only ] is a coded solution.”

            Whether I agree or not depends on your definition of “coded.” By the simplest definition of the word, Forrest’s solution is certainly coded — there are clues, after all, that have to be solved. Forrest doesn’t just say, “The treasure is there. Go get it.” The clues are cryptic, hence the solution is coded pretty much by definition. It is the *method* of encoding that you have to figure out.

            You seem perfectly fine accepting that the clues could be metaphorical in nature — and yet that *is* a code. Searchers going digging into dictionaries and extracting synonyms for poem words is ALSO a coded system, but I don’t see you objecting to that either (in spite of Forrest’s warning not to mess with the poem).

            Forrest’s poem is not Kryptos. There is no monoalphabetic or polyalphabetic substitution, Caesar shifting, bible-coding, or matrix-based transposition. I’m in complete agreement with you that Forrest has ruled out these methods (and many others even more convoluted), and I have not and do not employ them in my solutions. The technique I’m using is far simpler and more imaginative than that, and is something that anyone could do — including a child.

          • Zap…I gotta give you a ton of credit for being tenacious. That may be truly understated…your heart is definitely in the right place and I always have admiration for that.
            Always at this time of year I think back to the first days of the Chase and the folks involved. Not many of the originals are still kickin’ their heels up looking for Fenn’s treasure…but I bet that poem is stuck in their head for eternity. *Well*…keep chippin’ at the ole salt block pard, and oh yea…did you say that you thought you were within 500′(feet AJ) this time too? I think you responded yes?

          • *If base-9, then I think I’m doing fine so far.’*
            What does that mean? You said you basically couldn’t get to hoB, so you don’t know if you have TFTW correct either… your stuck where everyone else has been. Ya kinda have to ask why? right?

            *’When you reach the point of solving a few clues, you may feel differently about that.’*
            Well, back at ya.. when you actually get there, we can talk more.

            *’Whether a clue is hard or easy kind of depends on the person, don’t you think? ‘*
            Nope… I think your reading the poem completely different than intended. IF anyone truly understood wwwh and all of the poem, “beforehand” ~ things should fall inline on site… no matter what is expected to be done. [ which all so far seemingly have not, by fenn’s account] Would it be a totally different outcome-?- if they had known that particular wwwh?

            *’It is the *method* of encoding that you have to figure out.’
            There is a huge difference between a coded message vs. understanding how one phrases words in a poem. [ example; take it in – physical movement vs. a view.
            Just for fun, why not show how your method works with a single clue. I’m sure many have forgotten your examples, and I’m one of them.

            *’Forrest claiming “they get progressively easier after you discover where the first clue is” is subjective.’*
            Here is where we kinda agree. but it really falls down to the clue we need to nail down or stay home, line of thinking. However, for later clues to be deciphered vs. locate, I think is the down fall of not having the correctly understood first clue. [Example; a waterfall,.. we can match pretty much any clue to the location of a waterfall anywhere there is a waterfall]
            So, just knowing what wwh is a reference of, does that really satisfy the clue the way we need to nail it down?

            *’Puzzle-solving’*… I won’t get into it. We are just too far apart here, and there’s not enough space on the blog for that discussion.

            Now we’re back to codes again. You say synonyms and such are codes… how, how can you actually claim word usages, meaning, definitions are codes? If fenn wanted cold to mean the flu, would you call that a code vs. temperature? If wood is meant to be petrified “wood” by definition and not “woods” defined as multiple trees area, is that a code?
            I mean, fenn actually told us what he did… “I looked up words and definitions of words and changed them, went back and rebooted…It turned out exactly like I wanted.”

            fenn used google to search words [ reboot ] fenn, changed words, each word is deliberate, the way he wanted it to all unfold.
            fenn stated the poem is in plain English… straightforward. etc etc…
            fenn ~”people don’t see it the way I do”

            LOL Do you not use a method that involve only parts of words to retrieve an answer?

            We can go back and forth all day long, Zap… but like I said… throw us a bone we can bite on for a real discussion about how you comprise an actual clue using your method.

            I’m only admit about your method because for many months you have claimed it is correct. Yet if that was remotely true… you would never be stuck on any clue nevertheless the same clue all the others are stuck on as well. Your method is too precises in its specification, and should pass the litmus test… IF correct.
            I can say the same for the puzzle bock [grid] method. Or using ever other letter to spell out something. Or any other method that has a single way of retrieving a clue’s reference.
            YET, they all have failed… why is that?

          • Hi Ken — I take my tenacity cues from Dal, Diggin Gypsy and Cynthia … just minus all those Esmeralda miles.

            I do wonder about the Chase turnover — as you say, there are few such as yourself that seem to be in it for the long haul. Just check the Nine Clues #1 page from over 5 years ago for anecdotal evidence. 476 posts by 68 posters. Of them, you’re still around and of course Dal; occasionally frank posts, and I think I saw a recent post from James Perotti. So 4 out of 68. If I go to Nine Clues #2 (722 posts, 116 posters) I see
            you, Dal, mdc777, James Perotti and Colokid. (Some names are short enough that it’s hard to tell if it’s a new person or not, and many searchers have changed avatar names over the years). Apologies in advance to anyone I missed out of those two archives that is still posting away.

            Of course, just because people no longer post who used to (e.g. Goofy) doesn’t mean they aren’t still in the Chase. But it sure looks like a lot of the originals have dropped out. It would be interesting to know the various reasons for people throwing in the towel.

          • Zap, that wasn’t a jab, just tough love. Lol… Don’t forget that you are here day in and day out calling on searchers for their lack of imagination, unwise choices and/or poor solves. So now we have the right to add you to Forrest’s resume of 350,000 (plus one mad scientist) failed searches over 8 years. 🙂

            I agree with Seeker on his recent post. I say don’t give your wwwh away if you don’t need to but kinda walk us through your thought process. I’m not a fan of acrostics but if that is what you do, then how does it work?

          • Seeker — My base-9 quip was a nod to the number of clues; my point was just that if you measure progress only by chest or no chest, we’re all at zero, and that’s not an inspiring or helpful metric. Nor does it recognize that measurable progress can be made. I consider a solution to the first clue significant progress, and so does Forrest (“more than half way to the treasure, metaphorically speaking”). If you don’t nail down that first clue, you should not leave home to go searching. Again — Forrest’s advice, not mine. So Forrest seems to think that it is indeed possible to know beyond a reasonable doubt you have the first clue solved.

            “You said you basically couldn’t get to hoB, so you don’t know if you have TFTW correct either…”

            I said no such thing. I have a very good hoB, thank you very much. I’m just not so bold to claim it’s the only one possible. It’s just the best one that I’ve identified, and it works just fine with NF, BTFTW.

            “I think your reading the poem completely different than intended. IF anyone truly understood wwwh and all of the poem, “beforehand” ~ things should fall inline on site… no matter what is expected to be done.”

            That’s your opinion, based on your interpretation of Forrest’s ATF remarks. You think there’s some deep truth or mystery to be understood at WWWH that eludes all who’ve been there. I do not. I don’t think Forrest gives two hoots about WWWH. It was a conveniently located, unique starting point that would stand the test of time, and one for which he could design a cryptic clue. That’s all it is, IMO.

            Seeker, it’s clear you think that because Forrest looked up words and word definitions that we must do the same if we are to have any hope of solving the poem. Again, I 100% disagree because in my opinion I know why he had to do this — and it has nothing to do with challenging us to decipher an obscure twist of phrase. IMO, he made extra work for *himself*, not us, because of what he was trying to construct within the poem’s framework.

            “LOL Do you not use a method that involve only parts of words to retrieve an answer?”

            Laugh all you want, Seeker. But if you don’t open yourself up to the possibility that there is more to words than the meanings you can attach to them, I don’t think you can ever solve WWWH.

          • Zap
            You posted to my question ~’What part of your theory do you think stumped you?”
            {answering} To use Forrest’s words, if I knew that, I’d go right to the chest! ‘

            I assume you meant hoB as the clue that stumped you, by answering the above in the manner you did.
            I responded ~’“You said you basically couldn’t get to hoB, so you don’t know if you have TFTW correct either…”

            You then reply; ‘I said no such thing. I have a very good hoB, thank you very much.’

            Care to elaborate? The only clue fenn ever made such a remark about was hoB.
            So out of curiosity… how many clues did your theory take you, to not get to the center of the tootsies pop?

            I mean, [ depending on what your ideas of the clues are]… hoB is normally considered clue 4 by many… did you get to hoB? Get to clue 5? 6?
            Or are you still at the first two clues?

            You can’t have clue three completely known as solved, IF, it did not produce the next clue.
            No matter what science you study, rocket or otherwise… common sense dictates NO 4th clue, then clue 3 is wrong. { and that’s given the benefit of a doubt that you have the first two clues correct }

            How, IF you deciphered all the clues reference up to the blaze as you have claimed, you still can’t get past clue two and onto three to locate clue 4?

            If you don’t want to answer “directly”, that’s ok, just say so. No need for us to go back and forth about what is being said now.

          • Hi Seeker: this is a challenge to attempt on a phone on a skinny thread but I’m going to give it the old college try and maybe decipher my phone’s cut and paste feature. 😉

            “You posted to my question ~’What part of your theory do you think stumped you?”
            {answering} To use Forrest’s words, if I knew that, I’d go right to the chest! ‘”

            Apologies if I misled with that quote. I was merely trying to be funny/topical, not give an indication of where my choo-choo went off the rails. It was not an allusion to my perceived progress. The truth is, I don’t know where the failure point is: clue 9? Clue 5? The whole solution was really good I thought, but clearly not good enough.

            “So out of curiosity… how many clues did your theory take you, to not get to the center of the tootsies pop?”

            All the way, in this particular case. But I allowed for the specifics of the 9th clue to only be solvable in person. I still think 1-8 better be figured out pre-BOTG.

            “I mean, [ depending on what your ideas of the clues are]… hoB is normally considered clue 4 by many… did you get to hoB?”

            HoB was #4 on this occasion, or more specifically the put in below aspect of it. It is the starting point of my BOTG. I am actually pretty sure you’d be a fan of my hoB: it’s not obvious, but it’s pretty literal and clever. It’s straightforward and thematically aligned with Forrest’s interests.

            “You can’t have clue three completely known as solved, IF, it did not produce the next clue.”

            No argument here. To summarize, I think my hoB is right, but I am open to the possibility that it isn’t because the third clue has multiple reasonable interpretations. What the 3rd clue represents is not the issue; it’s the proper interpretation *why* Forrest identified what he identified, IMO.

            In a month or two, I can dispense with all the subterfuge and tell someone (you, Lugnutz, Dal, Cynthia, somebody) my WWWH and the logic behind it. I’m pretty sure whoever reads it will be just as convinced as I am. Ironically, it’s not rocket science.

    • Zap,

      One of my first imaginings of the hidey spot was a depression or cove in a semi-hilly area that would be fairly easy to overlook/not see unless you were right on top of it. I grew up in the woods (figuratively speaking) and I can take you to a spot that I have “memorized” that is in the middle of the forest near where I grew up. I do not know how many people know about it, but none of my friends do – because I never told them about it. In part, I think that has drawn me into this chase, because I shared a “secret” with Mr. Fenn, if you follow. I have not visited “my spot” in at least 44 years. Not sure I ever will, as I moved away from “home” when I went away to college.

      I kind of doubt that Mr Fenn would choose a “public place” to hide Indulgence in. I want to believe it is more secluded and has few, if any, signs about previous civilizations to be unearthed by any future anthropologists. My vision is of a solitary place, where he is alone and surrounded by nature.

      I’m a hopeless romantic…

      All in my opinion.

      • I agree. I do think it is in a beautiful, quiet place, very secluded. This is very hard to describe because it is more of an emotional “feeling” that I have when I read one of Forrest’s stories,

        He mentions going back to a place he fished many, many years ago, and then finding one of his old flies stuck to a tree branch. It’s like a moment stuck in time—kind of like a photograph. You were once in serenity–alone–in peace—a beautiful place.

        Then you move on with life. In Forrest’s case he sees the horror of war, and so many different things, Then you come back to that place that was once so special, and find a fly you had once been fishing with when you were very much younger. And the magic comes back for a moment. You remember yourself for a minute.

        There’s a Twilight Zone episode that has that “feeling” to it. Gig Young is a busy 40 year old businessman that is thrown into his past. He even sees himself carving his name into a tree. He meets his father and mother and himself. Suddenly he is back in the 1930’s. The episode ends with him chasing himself on a carousel trying to tell his childhood self to hold on as long as he can to childhood. But in doing so he causes his childhood self to fall off the carousel and hurt his leg. So when Gig Young goes back into the future he now has a limp he didn’t have before. It’s a wonderful episode. But it has the “feeling” I was describing in it. We would all like to go back and re-visit our childhood I think. Maybe hiding the chest is a small attempt to do just that. I wish I was a better writer so I could put into words much better what I am trying to say. Oh well, I tried. lol

        • Sparrow;

          I think that you did a very good job. I think that we all know what it was that you were expressing. Childhood is supposed to be such a special time. For those like Forrest, it was special. “And hint of riches new and old” – “Treasures bold” Riches old – memories of long ago – memories of childhood – Riches new – rich memories of coming to this special place to heal from the ravages of cancer. Ravages of both body and soul. “Treasures bold” – all of these combined memories – memories of fishing, and hiking, and “doing nothing” – Not only Forrest’s memories, but memories of the place itself. Mother Earth has a memory too – memories of its creation, memories of when it might have been a sea, or tidal flats, or a desert, or as mountains up-thrusted into what they are today. Memories of the last ice age. Memories of when man first set foot here, and hunted and gathered. Memories of the wildlife that roamed the hills – BOLD memories all. But my imagination runs wild again – JDA

        • Nice Sparrow. And the carousel motif is also at the end of Catcher In The Rye. Round and round, layers and layers.

      • Sparrow: I think you captured the sentiment quite well. There is a flip side to it, which I expect many of you have experienced, and we know that Forrest has. It’s the melancholic discovery that you can “never go home.”

        Some childhood places when revisited do not measure up to our memories of them. Sometimes this is simply because the place has changed, but other times it’s because there is more to a memory than the mere physicality of a place. *You* have changed. Forrest’s Bullet Comes Home is a good example.

      • I think few can see the big picture.

        So many like to think that FF bothered to hide the chest somewhere that was special to him in his youth.

        They are looking for HoBs in Yellowstone or in places of their childhood.

        For FF the past are only warm memories.

        If he hid the chest in a “really” special place, this place is part of his “current” life and not the past.

        Look how he would live his life again, if he could, and then answer me truthfully:

        Do you think the secret fishing hole, or the tree where you wrote a note to your wife, or a fishing pond from your youth, has any chance of being important to FF “today”?

        It’s only to see that he qualifies as a Maverick, that you already eliminate a lot.

        Read what he says about reliving the past:

        I never wanted to go down the center line. I wanted to bounce off the curbs and I think I’ve done that. I got caught a few times, but… I think if… If I had my life to do over, I said in my, one of these books that, if I had my life to do over, I’d change nearly everything. Why do the same thing over and over again? You know? You read in these different magazines, they ask a different question, “What would you change in your life?”

        “I wouldn’t change anything, everything’s been perfect.” I think that’s such a, a, an idiot thing to say, I think. Why do the same thing over again when you can… Nothing wrong with slamming a door and starting out new again.

        • McB-
          You are ignoring the fact that the Yellowstone Region was not only a childhood haunt of Forrest’s, but also a playground he returned to over and over as an adult and a place he not only spent time in as an adult, but contributed to as well. He helped his dad build cabins on Boundary Street when he was out of school. He helped his brother build a motel there when he was in his 30’s. He was still fishing and taking friends there when he was in his 70’s. He wrote articles for the West Yellowstone newspaper when he was in his 70’s. He and Peggy contributed to the Yellowstone Historic Center when Forrest was in his 70’s and 80’s. In his 80’s he once suggested that he and I should float down the Madison and do a little fishing. The plans were cancelled but the point was not.

          Finally…Forrest keeps a family history called Rumblings and Ramblings. It is filled with stories about all things Fenn. It was started and continues to be a family history to be handed down to his off-spring. Parts of its text have appeared in various places on the internet. Forrest handed it to me one day in his office. He started writing it as a senior and continues adding to it as memories emerge. One particular line that he wrote stuck in my mind like an earworm…”Enter Yellowstone, that is where my heart is.”…

          Forrest loved the place as a child and as an adult. It is very special to him even today. There is certainly no shortage of warm water there. I can think of no reason to disqualify it as a likely location for the chest…either inside the park or outside the park.

          • Dal,

            I consider you as a master, worthy of solving the poem.

            In the post above, I did not disqualify the park, just put as an example, for having your youth connected to the park. And I shared a thought based on what FF said.

            When I did analyze the woodcutter figure at the end of the TTOTC book I said that “ONLY IN MY opinion / analyze (I do not remember)” the image would exclude 3 states of the hunt. I don’t say the states.

            But as we get into the matter, I’ve had two solutions in Yellowstone.

            One of them was so perfect that any questioner would agree with me.

            I did not post her because it was too obvious, to be an enigma. (almost childlike)

            The other post here why even I found it a little unreal. It was at Gardiner’s Gate, remember?

            I was at the very beginning of my research.

            Today, after hundreds of hours studying the poem and FF, I can guarantee one thing: If I post something and say “I think”, it is because something I have found.
            If I say “IMO-JMO”, it’s just an idea to think about.

            When I find something important, that will not compromise my solution, I usually share by email with blog friends. (although not always well received)

            And I never affirm ideas as “fact”. After all, I do not have the chest. No one has the chest.

            As for my solution, I may be wrong, but my margin of error is quite small.

  30. Ken, that’s not the first time Dodo Bird has mentioned a basement here either.

  31. Seeker, I have to agree with some of what you said here. I have found something using the poem, a map, and imagination that requires no knowledge of place names, history, codes, anagrams, or anything other than geography knowledge that a child could understand. If it is right then it would be easy to say “what took me so long?”. Regardless of right or wrong, I believe that this is the type of solve needed.

  32. Zap and Seeker, if I were to guess I would say people throw in the towel because they simply run out of ideas. If after a few BOTG and getting stumped from there where else do you go? My guess is a vacation on a beach instead of in the woods. Some have probably been where we are at right now and did not progress.

    I keep preaching a team effort might be what it takes. I believe I have an excellent solution, but (Seeker’s favorite word) how can I know it is possibly correct until I search it? It seems very obvious that this is the correct path though with thousands trying before me how can I suspect that this is the first time this has been thought of? I can’t but I will go and search it still.

    Both of you are excellent candidates for a team effort. Seeker is a good thinker but his best quality might be getting information from other searchers and using it for his own theories. Zap is very analytical but not quite imaginative enough IMO. There are several other members on this blog with various other contributing qualities, as you know.

    If these solo missions do not prove to find the chest at some point we either must quit the chase or team up to find it. Like I said before this won’t be worth perusing until 2018 solves are all failed, if that does happen. If nobody finds the chest then this can be addressed again.

    • Zap, I realized later that I could have worded this better. I was in a hurry to post before dinner and really should have proofread it first. I didn’t mean to say that you personally are not imaginative. I can’t assume to know what you are thinking. What I was thinking is that usually the type of person that is very analytical is not as imaginative and creative. Everyone is different though. Everyone has something good to offer when it comes to solving the poem. It will take the right mixture of thinking to solve it I believe.

    • Aaron ~’Seeker is a good thinker but his best quality might be getting information from other searchers and using it for his own theories.’

      Allow me to rephrase that for you… I dissect others thoughts and process so I don’t make the same mistakes.
      When another searcher post’s a wild and crazy idea, most skip it by. I actually do read them, why? because they normally give me something else to think about.

      I’ll pick on JDA for a minute [ if he doesn’t mind ]
      He repeats the poem in search mode, basically having two or more of every clue. I highly doubt we have to run through the poem more than once, and keep going and going. But it did make me think of a WhatIF.

      Should a searcher follow all the clues correctly, locate the blaze and the distance to the chest be obvious from that point. IS it possible that the blaze looks back on where we started? A place that can only be seen from the blaze point, and at that blaze we see something we can’t see while at the ‘starting point’. So a searcher would then, basically repeat the solve in a mirror [opposite] image.

      The idea does seem to ring plausible with the AFT, fenn would of had to follow the clues to see the exact location of the hide. [ at least at some point in time ]. That doesn’t change the fact he walked less than a few miles when he hid the chest, or he had to make two trips because of weight [ he could have parked near the blaze ]… and… it gives credence to why we would need to be able to walk several hours to ‘our’ solve, with the ‘need’ to do it twice.

      Many want to believe we need to make two trips ourselves because of the weight. Yet most searcher always have have someone with them [ not all, but most ] Why would fenn indicate “we” would need to be able to make two trips to our solve?… the above scenario may explain that.
      I recall a comment about climbing a hill just to turn around to see where you have been. It also make some sense about Elliot’s Quote… knowing the place for the first time. As well as, two other comments; You won’t know you have wwwh correct until the chest is found, and need to ‘nail down’ the first clue.

      So no matter how mind boggling a searcher’s theory is… many of their post gives me an alternative food of thought.
      LOL so it’s not about ‘getting’ their information for my own … I abuse the heck out of their thoughts, to see another possibility.

      • No, I didn’t mind Seeker. Your rocks were not too big, and I ducked most of them haha – 🙂 JDA

      • Seeker,

        You’re right.

        Other ideas increase our ideas.

        It is no waste of time studying other researchers’ solutions or ideas.

        A single word can open a universe of new ideas, new interpretations, new thoughts.

        Plant “one” tree in your house and you will have “one” tree. Plant “one” idea in your head and you will have a “world” of ideas.

        What if?

      • I honestly believe everyone does and should use others thoughts to help with theories, and you do a great job of it.

        If I could rewrite that post so that it better reflects my actual thoughts I would. To be truthful I had a few beers last night before I wrote it. I have to remember to not drink and post. I did that once while talking trash in a fantasy football league and after reading it the next day I realized it was very bazaar and not at all what I meant to say.

        I apologize if I offended anyone.

        • No offense taken, Aaron.
          Ya can say how intelligent I am all day… Only you forgot good lookin. It ok, your not the first to let the obvious slip by.

    • Hi Aaron — I took no offense, but thank you for your follow-up nevertheless. While I wouldn’t say my solution methodology is “imaginative,” I think people here will find it quite unexpected and unconventional when revealed. Very backwards-bicycle-like.

      • I think imagination, I remember:

        “My church is in the mountains and along the river bottoms where dreams and fantasies alike go to play.” ☺

      • Hi ken: no immediate plans to reveal to all. I’ll float a trial balloon revealing WWWH and the methodology toward a few prominent HoD’ers this summer to elicit feedback.

          • A prominent member knows quite a bit about Proms and other kinds of dances. It’s kind of like trackability—-that refers to what events in track you were good at—-I used to do the sprints.

        • Hey Zap…I was not really serious. I know that you are still in it…so actually it would be ridiculous to even do that. IF you are correct in your *methodology*…why show your cards?
          On the other hand…IF you are not even in the ballpark…maybe you should show your hand so that you can move on. Have a good one…

        • Hi CovertOne: it wasn’t meant as a snub to any particular searcher. My idea was to select a few folks who everyone knows and respects on the blog and get their two cents (sense?) on the reasoning behind my WWWH. The motivation is admittedly completely selfish: many searchers think I’m blowing smoke, and this would just be an attempt to prove otherwise.

          • McB: a precise geographic point on a map described by the combination of WWWH and the keyword.

          • And is that key word part of the poem or the TTOTC book?

            Or was it created from deduction, analyze?

          • Dejoka: actually ideally the opposite of like-minded. The solution if valid should work for my staunchest critics. Echo chambers don’t interest me.

          • McB: poem, TTOTC, TFTW, OUAW, MW Q&A’s, Scrapbooks, Vignettes, public email replies. Pretty much every venue of communication.

          • Zap,

            In your solution does the keyword fit into all the possible poem variables?

            Or does it follow a unique context?

            For example, as you break the poem does it align with the solution of the poem or do you need adjustments at certain points?

          • I have sense, it’s mostly common though. Most everyone has heard of me, but I’m not sure about the respect part. I mean, some make fun of my typing skills and llack of poof readen… how rude.
            Still Zap, I would like the change to have a go at your method of WWWH.
            If it’s done by e-mail.. it stays in e-mail. More than likely the spam folder… but it will stay there only.

            Just saying.

          • Maybe you’re not comfortable talking to me. I’m new here.

            And because of the time zone, I need to sleep.

            So if your answer is “no” to just my “second” question, your WWWH has chances of being correct.

            In this case my last question would be:

            If FF tomorrow back and say that WWWH “no” is the first clue, that the first clue is in stanza 1, will you still consider your WWWH or your keyword to be the correct one?

            If so, you are on the right path in your solution.

            If not … : (

            Just my opinion for a companion in the hunt.

          • Seeker: you are certainly someone I’m considering because if *you* like it (and when I say like it, I mean better than anything you’ve heard or read so far), then anyone aware of our long-standing, um, history (wink) would figure something serious is afoot.

          • Since I was ignored, I’ll shoot:

            Ah, these are not “my” opinions only.

            “*Complacency is the misuse of imagination. (Posted Dec. 18th, 2015)”

            “*Don’t be influenced by those who say they know, but don’t.f (Posted June 10th, 2016)”

            “Dear Mz. Mary,
            The solve is difficult for many searchers because their minds think the clues are tougher to decrypt than they really are.

            Some say they are trying to think outside the box, as if the solution lies somewhere out there.

            Until now I have resisted telling them to get back in the box where their thoughts are comfortable and flow more easily.

            The blueprint is challenging so the treasure may be located by the one who can best adjust. To illustrate my point go to YouTube – Smarter Every Day.” f


          • Zap…I would love to be included when you share your methodology. I’ve noted that you and I often seem to get to the same place but I think it is via a different pathway. I’m curious. Thanks.

          • McB: you weren’t ignored — we are four time zones apart and I’m a night person, so call that effectively 5 or 6. Our search states couldn’t be further apart, so I’m not sure I see the point in answering leading questions, but I will go ahead and answer your first:

            “In your solution does the keyword fit into all the possible poem variables?”

            No. That is not the purpose of Forrest’s word that is key in my opinion. In my solution(s) all the clues are connected to it, but its main purpose, as I see it, is to identify the starting point.

          • Hi Zap: I think you can count on several folks here providing their two cents and objective feedback. IMO – you are one of the most technical thinkers here so it’s puzzling that you would put information out for all to see especially if it involves your work and real solve location (or portion of your solve like WWWH).

            In about 30 seconds, lurkers from all around will start to test your theories and, who knows, take it all the way to the finish.

            For what it’s worth – I don’t think you’re blowing smoke and some of the things you mention here are very logical and insightful. Best of luck – whether you test a key theory here of decide to retain your work without disclosure….

          • Hi Sandy! I already have you on the short list. Your past posts show that you understand the game that Forrest is playing, and that you are not one to ignore the intentional “errors” that he makes. 85% is 85%.

          • Zap,
            Just in case I was being considered. You can leave me out, your methods and ideas are too foreign to me. There is no way I could help.

            Thanks and Good Luck.

          • Dekoka: “Just in case I was being considered. You can leave me out, your methods and ideas are too foreign to me. There is no way I could help.”

            That’s actually what would make you an excellent sounding board. I’m pretty good at explaining things, and I think you would find my ideas are not foreign to you at all. They are really simple. I would think they would fall more into the category of “OMG — I should have thought of that.”

          • Dejoka: fair enough. No worries. I still think that most folks when told what my WWWH is and why will have a reaction something like, “Duh. Why didn’t I think of that?”

          • Fundamental Design: shorthand for the tedious “a word that is key”. But in my opinion there’s difference whatsoever.

          • Zap, I’m going with a big difference between “a” and ‘the’. Plural versus singular. Many versus one.

          • Hi Covert One: just to clarify, I’m not going to publish my WWWH on any blog while I’m still actively in the Chase. That would be “metaphorically” giving away more than half the solution, and while that’s a far cry from delivering the chest to a lurker, I wouldn’t so casually hand over the fruits of a few thousand manhours. Rather, my eventual intent is to share it privately with a few searchers, and give them the opportunity to provide constructive feedback.

            I do want to thank you for the compliment, and for sharing with me that you don’t think my ideas are just smoke and mirrors. I think you may be in the minority on that score, but I’m okay with that. 🙂

          • echo chambers should interest you Zap… Its part of the chase and will be revealed when someone finds it. IMHO.

          • All you need is eyes in the back of your head. Turning the seat around also helps us guys – If ya’ know what I mean – JDA

        • I believe that if one were to create a device like a periscope but with three mirrors at the correct angles to allow you to see ahead that you could easily ride a backwards bicycle. One mirror would reverse the image but you would not be able to see straight unless you literally rode it backwards. Two mirrors would cause the image to be the same as looking ahead but adding a third would do the trick!

  33. In odds and ends above here somewhere there was a discussion on the dove nesting in the crescent moon. I’m just curious out of everyone that’s here and even those who don’t post much what they’re solid guess is to what it means.

    Here is my guess the dub is a mourning dove . In the story where it is at forest is talking about his father the dove represents the loss and love for his father but I also believe in my humble opinion that the moon and the dub represent where the treasure chest is hidden I believe it is an exact spot where the dove sets in the Crescent moon where the chest is hidden.

  34. Zap, we have the same definition for WWWH but different state and I think we have a different key word.

    • I take that back. After reading your next reply I’d say it is possible we have the same key word. Probably not but possible.

    • Aaron: only because you’re focused on Wyoming is it theoretically possible we share the keyword, but like you said I strongly doubt it.

  35. Fennatical, I have seen that video thanks. The mirror trick would have been faster, and he would be able to ride a normal bike after 🙂 A more efficient smarter every day IMO

  36. I may be in an altered state, but think I figured out where the authentic Dr. Who is. I don’t have a good poker face, but I am pretty good at Blackjack. I hope the clock isn’t ticking too fast.

    “Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes.” ~Carl Jung

    All IMO

    Thanks to you, and all that have served this Memorial Weekend.

  37. Does anyone think Forrests Dad would know his special hidy spot to leave his bones? I know there was a second hand comment that “his Dad would know” but do you think his Dad knew his plan or just his Dad could figure it out?

    • Also, I think Skippy would find Forrests hourd quicker than his dad… 🙂 Has he ever said anything about Skippy and the treasure?

    • I don’t see how his Dad could have known… he past before fenn’s own on set of cancer. If we take fenn at is word, the idea of all this only started at that time… 1988.
      I’m not even sure if his Dad could figure out the poem… but it would not surprise me he at least knew of the location.

      • Seeker,

        Have you read the poem that Forrest’s father sent him a few years before he died?

        Read through until you fully understand. See the poem with your mind. See the landscape, the grass, the warrior, the bow bowing, the arrow flying, time passing, the father of FF with arrow in hand, seeing and imagining the same as you.

        Now do this with the FF poem. You will notice surprising similarities.

    • A Father’s Day musing. My guess on it is that the poem is in the same style as puzzles or games that he used to play with his dad. So his father would have known how to approach solving it.

      • ff’s father would have easily solved it to the blaze but from blaze to tc would have taken him longer imo.

        • We’ve all solved it easily to the blaze, it’s that last part that gets us. Trying to find that path that goes from a figment of our imaginations to an actual bronze chest is a tough one.

          PS, since this is in the hidey space page I’ll add a scintillating insight I had about the special place. If I wanted to hide a treasure so that wouldn’t be found for 1000 years I would have put it at a nuclear waste dump. Nobody would find it til things cool off a bit.

          • That’s pretty funny JW. Made me chuckle. My last quest is to try an answer how deep the hole is at the hidey spot.

          • After a thousand years buried at a nuclear waste dump…..all the gold would have likely been transformed into lead by the constant decay of uranium and other unstable elements. IMO


  38. Reassure me here guys please, if Mr Fenn said either ‘Lots’ or ‘Many’ (Cant remember exact phrase) have been with in 500ft and a ‘Few’ within 200ft then going by the word bending geniuses pass, ‘`lots’ or ‘`many’ technically could of been within 201ft right?………am I correct in thinking that or shall I call for the men in white coats!……Again!! 🙂

    • Hi Butch. Forrest said “lots” of people have been within 500 feet, but not very many within 200 feet. Technically, yes, “lots” could have been within 201 feet, and Forrest’s statement would still be truthful. But realistically, in most instances Forrest cannot estimate to within +/- 20 feet of where a searcher has been, and probably not even that accurately. So, no, I don’t think he’s shaving it quite that close. Maybe the 500 footers have been within 250 feet, but I doubt that was the intent of Forrest’s statement. When he said 500, I think he meant roughly 500 feet, not 201 or 250 or even 300. After all, he was willing to say he thought the 200-foot figure was pretty accurate. Artificially inflating the distance from 250 (or whatever) up to 500 wouldn’t seem to serve much purpose, given the existence of 200-footers.

      • Hi Zap,

        Thanks for the reply, its just that I can make the 200 fit in my solve but not the 500, the nearest I can get is about 348ft…… surely for Mr Fenn to. come up with an accurate 200 he must be using measuring tools on GE no? which would mean he cold say 200/1000ft the bigger the 2nd number the more vague and bigger area he can insinuate when realistically its a very small area? IMO

        • Butch, fenn said he didn’t us maps,he recalled from memory when he wrote the poem… he knows the location very well. And folks have told him exactly where they were… like fenn said, he look for key word in the e-mails… it could be just as simple as a searcher saying, I sat on a larger round rock over looking the waters about 20 feet from the waters edge… fenn then would know that boulder is 200′ from the chest. In theory.
          Can you describe your child hood home inside and out…? Mine sat on two acres with the home 50 from the road, a horseshoe driveway just off the the left and a road frontage of 200 going back 400 feet with a second home the size of 36 feet sq and 80 to 90′ from the end of the back property, having a oval 32′ pooling between the homes. leaving a 75 foot blue-spruce stationed near the fence line of the neighbors property. Just be hind the driveway. And the main house 30; off the other neighbor’s land.

          I could tell you within a few feet of where anything in that yard would be at. I’m sure fenn can do the same with his special place.

          • seeker- I too recall every small detail of the house where I was raised, as well as my grandfathers house, where I spent many a summer day.
            If in fact, f knows his special place as well as we know ours, I wonder what made this place so special. Seems like it would be more than innate beauty, or even a great place to fish. He would know of thousands of those type of places. What’s so special about this place that he was determined to hide the treasure there?

          • emmett1010;

            I am not Forrest, nor do I have the chest – therefore, I can not know for sure what the answer to your question is – but – here I go anyway.

            Few of us have faced death and survived. Think about it for a few minutes. Not just a second or two, but a few minutes.

            You are having to face your immortality. Forrest was diagnosed with cancer at a time where this was like having your death certificate signed. He was given – what – a 20% chance of survival? What must have gone through his mind? Well, he beat the odds. He survived.

            His body was healed, but what about his mind? I know that I would have to escape to some special place to heal my mind – to reevaluate life, and my place in it. It is easy to live day-to-day when you don’t fear death. How do you live day-to-day when the days are numbered? How do you live day-to-day when you have been given a second chance?

            Forrest may have gone to a place of his youth. A place that was full of memories of that youth. A place that was “fun”. A place to fish, a place where he could commune with nature.

            While here, thinking back on his youth, maturing, and fearing death – Maybe he saw the same thing in the place itself. Here was a place that had been “Born”. A place that had a “childhood” – A place that has a “Present” , and a place that has a “future”. This place became a personification of “his” life.

            The future of this “Place” is unknown, and yet it’s future can be predicted by looking at its past.

            Could Forrest’s future be predicted by his past? Yes, and no. We are who we are, but we also have the power to change how we act. Forrest may have been well pleased with who he was, and who he would be “tomorrow” – or He might have decided to become a bit “different” in his future – to change the course of his remaining years.

            Maybe he saw this in the “Place” that he was in. Maybe a stream once flowed one way, but today takes a different course. Just like his life – he had followed one path, but now could choose a different one – “If he wanted to”.

            Think back to the ice age. A glacier carving out a valley – a phenomenal “force”. Or think about that same glacier melting – drop-by-single-drop – becoming a rivulet that becomes a creek or stream, that becomes a river that carves out new valleys. From a drop of water, into an earth-changing force.That same force lies within each of us – if only we channel it correctly.

            Maybe these were Forrest’s thoughts, in this special place – the place that he came to to heal his body, his mind and his soul. Maybe this is why this place is so special. This “Place” became a personification of who Forrest had been, and who he could be, now that he had been given a second chance. Read “My War For Me” and “Flywater” and some of what I have said may make some sense.

            I have NO idea, I can only conjecture about how “I” would have handled facing death, and escaping it. JDA

          • Emment,
            Regardless of why… I think it’s more important to ask; did he tell us-?- where his location is, be it the poem or the book.
            I’m not sure the poem contains “ALL” the information “we” desire. I think the poem is only the path. While the book can help with the hints… I think this might be misunderstood as answers to the clue’s individual places. I lean toward the idea, the book will help with the clue’s location only. The rest is up to us, deciphering the poem’s path.

            So, basically, you can tell me everything about those two places you remember as a kid, points within them and even lead me to a place you enjoyed being at when there… but how will I find those places if you don’t hint to where they are located?

            “Special” to you and I are going to be different to each person. And as you said; fenn tells us of many places special to him… and each seems as likely as the next. Kinda like everything is a clue to fenn [ even the “useless clues,” lol ]

          • JDA,
            Nice sentiment and all, but you’re working with mostly your feelings of how fenn should feel.
            I doubt fenn fears death or worry about facing his immortality [ during the time of the illness ]… Every time he flew a mission, that possibility was always there, line of thinking, and for 20 years.

            However, If you’re talking about healing of the mind? lol, ya might be in the wrong state. Reread the pinion nut comment and see where fenn chose to live to recover / heal / get his head on straight or any other terminology usable for the thought.
            If I was to only think about what you stated; My first guess/pick is NM. It would almost have to be… after fenn said what he said about NM jut prior to the all known pinion nut comment, Right?

            It’s very difficult to get into another thoughts about such matters, especially if you never dealt with them yourself. I don’t think we can look at just one aspect of the cancer for answers… IMO, the illness was only the igniter of a thought to… why do I need to be conventional?

          • JDA,

            I would have to agree with your comments about Forrest, since I have stated ones very similar in the past. I’m sure Forrest went through many stages of emotions before during and after his cancer surgery, and at times needed to get away especially during his healing process.

            Why not go to a place that has a “special meaning” and one that has somethings that helped in that healing process. A place that help in inspiring you to create this chase, so others too can enjoy what you found and can understand “why” this place is the one you chose to secret indulgence.
            Yes, this is where the imagination part of this comes in, trying to understand Forrest and his “big picture”.
            It’s my belief that maybe Forrest pasted thru this place as a youth, but never “discover” it until later in life (maybe with someone special) and then “understood” this place and all it offered after his cancer scare. This was a place he could just feel free to enjoy, reflecting on memories while doing things that help heal the mind and body. So yes, a place that he might have had a rebirth.

            Of course all I say is just food for thought, but what if.

            Good luck,

          • Good Morning Bur;

            I was reading “My War For Me” the other night, and this quote jumped out at me:
            In “My War for Me” Forrest talks about a French Soldier’s Grave Marker. Here is a quote from that chapter:

            “If you should ever think of me when I have passed this vale, and wish to please my ghost, forgive a sinner and smile at a homely girl.”

            Those words burned in my brain and I can see them just as clearly now as I did then, when I was so rushed. I took care to replace the stone marker as it had fallen, and smooth the grass to hide it over. The promise that place had made to me had been kept, and mine to it as well.

            How innocent and foolish all of that seemed at the time, and even more so, that a strangely insidious something began to gnaw on me. This could not be the end of it. There was no feeling of closure at all, no sense of completeness. It was disappointing.

            Is it fair that no one recalls where those BRAVE French soldiers fell and are now interred in that remote jungle clearing, hidden from life for a million sunsets? After a violent ending, they have been swallowed up in a serenely beautiful place, and at the same time, hidden by ravages of time and nature. Those who fell there, in that hateful, wasteful, losing war (like the one in which I was involved) are forever forgotten, save by me. It has been fifty-six years since that war, and no one cries anymore. That thought is deeply personal and indelible in me now, fourty-two years after I was there.

            My experience beside the waterfall was on December 22,1968.

            The BRAVE French soldiers HOME is now beside that waterfall in Viet Nam – remembered by only Forrest.”

            The French word for men is hommes. Brave men, therefore is hommes de brave (Mixture of French and English) “Hommes de Brave – or Home of the Brave. hoB is, in reality, the “Home of the Brave.”

            I wonder if this quote has anything to do with Forrest’s “healing” after his Vietnam experiences.

            I know that I had to do some “healing” when I returned. Forrest may not of had to do some healing, but “War is Hell” as the old saying goes.

            Just a thought – JDA

          • Hello JDA. I enjoyed reading your post. “My War For Me” is such a powerful chapter. If I recall correctly, Mr. Fenn had stated this would be the chapter one should read (paraphrasing). I feel there was some kind of healing he had to go through, whatever it may have been. If I recall correctly, I believe he mentioned (written or audio/video) waking up from nightmares, but over time they began to subside. In his chapter he spoke of no one crying, but his story didn’t halt the warm waters upon my cheeks.

          • Thanks PD. I can never read “My War for Me” without those “Warm Waters” flowing also – JDA

          • JDA, if I could offer you and others a handkerchief while reading this chapter, I would do so.

          • JDA

            Sweet Sublime Words, Sweet Sublime Words Indeed.

            I have absolutely no doubt in my mind, that when the treasure is found, the entire world will SEE just how revelatory your words, along with Forrest’s, truly and amazingly are woven into the fabric of which makes a man a son of Mother Earth.

          • Thanks Pauley T;

            If you could see the splendors of “MY” place – which I think is Forrest’s Place – and understand some of the “Special Markings” – Yes, this will become a Special Place for many. A place to remember those who have lost their lives in wars too soon forgotten – and souls lost in those wars.We all need “Special Places” that open the heart, and in some cases, heal the soul . JDA

          • JDA & Pdenver – In relation to the hidey spot, it is interesting to think about what stage of Forrest’s life made this spot special for him. I have always assumed that since it is located in the Rocky Mountains, that it would be a spot that was special to him as a young boy during one of the family trips from Texas to Yellowstone. But perhaps it relates to a place that he had not discovered until he was a young man, either before or after the Vietnam War. Or maybe he did not find it until he was middle-aged, or even late-middle-aged? Or perhaps it was a place he initially discovered as a child and grew a greater appreciation for as it drew together later aspects of his life? By the way, this is a bit off-topic, but did either of you notice that there was a thread that we had all commented on yesterday morning, that has now been deleted? It seemed to me like a benign topic that I was interested in hearing more about. Curious.

          • Blex;

            The spot is obviously special to Forrest for one reason or the other – Hopefully, once Indulgence is found, we will learn why this spot is special to him.

            re the deleted posts – no I hadn’t noticed. I had noticed that Sherif Billy got a bit testy – Seems like he wanted to have a private conversation with Flutter and did not appreciate my having something to say. Maybe that is why part of that interchange got deleted. No big deal as far as I was concerned – JDA

          • JDA,

            The exchange that was made over at Odds & Ends, is still there. Why wasn’t the question asked of Blex, “what thread are you talking about?” Yet you jump to conclusion as to it being Sherif and the exchange.

            Here-in lies the problem, jumping to conclusion is the same as speculation, check the facts first!!


            What thread are you referring to in your comment? “By the way, this is a bit off-topic, but did either of you notice that there was a thread that we had all commented on yesterday morning, that has now been deleted?

            Just Say’n

    • At the risk of making some folks unhappy with my comments, I’ll apologize now.

      It is my opinion all 200 and 500 footers have been taking nice vacations. While some of them may have been searchers, they had not solved the poem. It is my belief that Mr. Fenn wants us to know that solving is more important than searching (botg).

      Your mileage may vary,

      • I agree that the poem can be solved in its entirety without botg up until take the chest. I think they may have also solved clue #1 for the wrong reason that I’ll explain after I post my solve and may have had #2 pegged and just happened to pick a trail within 2-500′ by sheer luck

        • If the researcher “knows exactly” what he is looking for.

          Only “one” clue wrong = all the rest wrong.

      • swwot…I agree. Thinking and observing and planning come to mind.
        Those folks “obviously” did not understand the full answer. Their map was incomplete….

    • Butch,
      “Lots” of people could mean private property. So within 500 ft of a private “lot” …? A lot can be small or very large…
      Just throwing that out there…

  39. I think the hiding place is a traffic loop , off a hiway to a scenic view or fishing spot. There’s no reason why anyone would venture to the inside of the traffic loop, because on one side is the hiway, and on the side is the attraction.

  40. I have an idea that involves solving the first stanza of the poem. Solving for “there” and “where” narrows a search area for WWH. Then solve the 9 geographical And contiguous clues to the Blaze. Any thoughts?

    • Jeff;

      To me, “In There and Where” is the final place that Indulgence is secreted. For me, I could not solve these two until after I had solved all of the other clues – but that is just me, and I do not have the chest. Go for it guy – JDA

      • JDA,

        All logic suggests you are right. And my logical mind agrees with you.

        The honest truth is I have always wanted to go to YNP. My 12 year old twins and I have created a really great treasure map to include in the fun along way while in the Park. My brother is coming along as well because growing up when and where we did; one could play hooky from school, go fishing, and no one was the wiser. We dreamed about going to Yellowstone as most young boys did in our time. So long story short, we made the poem fit that area. The idea of using the first stanza to narrow the search area for WWH is in FLYWATER. Pretty sure this isn’t a new idea. From what I’ve read, it is the most searched area, and seemingly safe area if one is prudent about safety.

  41. Reconcile these two statements:

    “In the end, the person who finds the gold will not feel lucky, but instead, will ask himself “What took me so long?”

    “People will be surprised when they find out where it is.”

    • The person that finds it is going to realize in hindsight how simple and straightforward the poem is. People will be surprised it’s not in Yellowstone or New Mexico.

      • I see the “being surprised” as having two possibilities:

        1) You are surprised at the general area.
        2) You are surprised in the manner the chest is hidden AT the location.

        Certainly, if it was ANYWHERE in Yellowstone, almost nobody would be surprised. (Also, I believe Yellowstone has been ruled out by Forrest’s own comments regarding the use of trails).

        For the “What took me so long”, I agree, once you figure out the solve, it will seem obvious.

        • I probably should have said “Greater Yellowstone” meaning people think one or more clues have something to do with Yellowstone.

          • CRM114: that’s the million dollar question, isn’t it? I think people would be surprised if the chest was underwater, but we know it isn’t. They’d be surprised if it was on top of a mountain, but again we know it isn’t. I agree that the people who are convinced that Indulgence is in New Mexico will be surprised (or more to the point, dismayed). It’s hard to imagine being surprised by a hiding place that no searcher has approached to within 200 feet. Seems to rule out most of the “surprising” locations.

          • CRM114;

            As you know, I believe that Indulgence will be found in Wyoming – not in or near YNP. IF I am correct, and it is found in a relatively obscure place in WY – will you be surprised – since most of the focus has been northern NM and the greater Yellowstone area? I imagine that you will – JDA

          • Zap, Yes, applying other ATFs to the situation limits what you can be surprised about. I’m under the potential delusion the 200 footers were simply on a sightseeing side trip possibly a 100 miles from their search area, and the 500 footers are just people, not searchers. Between F’s CTRL-F search ability and 10s of thousands of emails, I’d guess the chances of an obscure spot popping up is pretty good.

          • JDA,

            I would not be surprised if it’s in an obscure spot. I will be surprised if it’s in greater Yellowstone or New Mexico.

          • CRM114: well, I for one would be surprised if Indulgence was inside the Old Faithful maw. Hard to approach (legally) to closer than 200 feet, and it wouldn’t be under water per se (more like under steam). Not so sure he could smell pine trees from that location given the overwhelming smell of sulfur dioxide. 😉

      • ** ** ** Reconcile these two statements:
        ** “In the end, the person who finds the gold will not feel lucky, but instead, will ask himself “What took me so long?”
        ** “People will be surprised when they find out where it is.” ** ** **

        (de-fenn-ition of the phrase “so long” – an amount of time somewhere between “over spring break” and “a hundred years down the road”)

        Those statements suggest to me that the guy who’s only ever been inside may not be the best judge of what it looks like to all the folks who’ve only ever been outside.

        I don’t usually wonder about the unknowables, but one that pops into my head now and then is this hypothetical:

        If the chest were found, but the *only* information released was the exact little location (coordinates and all) the box was sitting on . . . nothing at all about the clue solutions that took the finder there . . .

        . . . how long do you think it would it take us to figure out *where warm waters halt*?

        . . . and agree on it? 😉


    • Hey interesting quotes.
      I can’t find them on Tarry Scant.
      Do you know when and what context these were made?

      “What took me so long?” is interesting wording.
      Clearly Clueless

      • Clearly: here’s the context/source of the latter. It was an email (here) from Forrest on 10/10/2012:

        “Occasionally I forward parts of emails to Dal for use in his blog to add human interest for others who are in the search, but I never would if it made a difference or in any way might point someone toward or away from the treasure. Dal is also a searcher. I am determined to stay aloof of providing any additional clues that are useful. Everyone has the same information to work with. Some few have stopped within several hundred feet of the correct location, and then passed it by. I said in my book that the solution will be difficult but not impossible. If it was easy anyone could do it. Whoever finds the treasure will mostly earn it with their imagination. I have done only a few things in my life that were truly planned. Hiding the treasure chest is one of them. And at the end, the one who finds the gold will not feel lucky, but instead, will ask himself, ‘what took me so long?’”

        • My pleasure! (I don’t have a quick reference to the other quote, but no doubt someone else will dredge it up if it’s legit.) Have a great weekend!

          • ** ** ** “People will be surprised when they find out where it is.” ** ** **


            “Confirmed direct response from Forrest, in an email”

            Here is a differently worded one along the same lines that *can* be sourced:

            ** ** ** I [Taylor Clark, author of this article] observed that the treasure — one small chest hidden in a 3,000-mile-long mountain range — didn’t seem likely to be found anytime soon. The Fenn sparkle came back into his eye.

            “Well, you don’t know where it is,” he said, grinning. “When somebody finds that treasure chest, everybody’s going to say, ‘My God! Why didn’t I think of that?’” ** ** **



          • JAKe;

            I see these two quotes as saying very different things. #1 I read as Forrest saying that most searchers will find the actual location a surprise, because it will NOT be in NM or in the Yellowstone eco. area.

            I see quote #2 as saying – The method used by the solver will use or employ elements that the “average” searcher will not have thought about.

            Just how I read the two quotes – JDA

          • Hi JAK: unfortunately the link in the UK that leads to the quote: ** ** ** “People will be surprised when they find out where it is.” ** ** ** is broken, but there is ample evidence that the quote (from a private email) did at one time appear there.

          • True, Zap. Chris Yates’ post here on HoD (that I linked above) was the earliest reference to the quote that I found.

            Someone on another site said you could get to the UK source using the Wayback Machine, but I didn’t bother testing it due to perceived lack of any additional nutritional value.


    • The finder will not be surprised. He or she that finds it will have listened to what ff has said and will have kept it simple. The rest of the search world will be dismayed at how straightforward the solve is/was (all imo).

    • And at the end, not only the one who finds the gold, but also Forrest and a host of searchers will ask, “what took so long?”
      I think that once the poem is solved, the answers will seem obvious to not only the finder, but to all who search.

      “People will be surprised when they find out where it is”… reminds me of a (another?) quote by Forrest, “If you think I could not have put it there, you are probably right. f” (Mysterious Writings, Weekly Words, 9/9/16).
      IMO, this says don’t put anything past Forrest, he may surprise you. He said he was going to make his special spot work no matter what. His spot may not be what we initially envision as his beautiful, special place, and could therefore surprise us in the end.

      • I don’t think the exact spot where the treasure is, is specifically what is special to Forrest. I think it is the general area around the spot that the treasure is in.

        His comment that he would make it work I think refers to the several hints and other things in TToTC that anecdotally help the searcher “know” they are right (i.e “move with confidence”).

  42. has any one thought of asking a psychic to locate the hidey space?
    i have heard that they can locate lost or missing things.
    just a thought

    • My psychic told me that she knows where it is. I’m still trying to raise the $1,000,000 fee that she wants for that information. Maybe I should ask for a money back guarantee?

      PS I’ll pass the information on to you at only a 10% markup, but I won’t be able to guarantee it.

    • There have been a lot of comments on this site about psychics over the years. The search bar at the top of the page will probably lead you to them…

    • Or better yet, one of those people who specialize in “reading” people’s body language. We could pay an expert to review all the Forrest videos. Perhaps there is a key body movement Forrest employs, or a “tell” that he is not even consciously aware of. I seriously think this could reveal useful information.

    • ric on 9/7/18 asked: has any one thought of asking a psychic to locate the hidey space? i have heard that they can locate lost or missing things.
      just a thought

      My response: psychics tell me that the chest is wet.

      The above is part of my opinion.
      Another part of my opinion is that some of what I post does provide some

  43. If you were standing where treasure chest is….it would look like “Almost heaven”…quoting John Denver’s “Country Roads”; Views to die for…

  44. I asked myself the other day how and where I want to die if I had a cancer like Fenn when he was diagnosed with a kidney cancer. IMO he wanted to die at the place where he knows the best, the most beautiful location for him when he was young and spent time “in there”, and the safest place protected by rain, snow, animals, and people. If he had died in that hiding place in 1989 with the TC, nobody would have found his dead body nor the TC for almost 20 years now.

    I don’t want to die in an open field where animals and birds can get to you, or in a river or a lake where the water rot your body away, or deep in the woods where all you can see is trees above and the dirt below. I want to see the water, but not actually be in the water. I want to see the sky, but not in the open lying down. I want to see the mountains and valleys. I want to see all the colors, green, white, yellow, brown, red, blue and black. I also want to feel the breeze passing by. I want to touch the cold of the rock. I want to smell the pines nearby and dirt below my feet.

    I do not want to be wet from rain. I do not want to freeze under the snow. I do not want sun scorch my body. I do not want to be bothered by the animals, birds, and even people. However, I want to feel the presence of them. I would like to hear constant water streams (even though warm waters halted) and birds singing, and to see the never-ending visits from people all over the world (even though there is no human trails in very close proximity).

    Can I ever find that hiding place? Can my solve lead me to that secret place? Maybe, or maybe not.

    — MajinKing

    • Just so you know MajinKing, Forrest could NOT see water when standing next to the tc..

        • Idle and JDA,
          going strickly off memory…..
          Forrest said, something like this….if I was standing next to tc I see blah blah blah…he goes on to say he knows the tc is wet.
          What he doesn’t say he sees is water. ..

          • Thanks pdenver for below. He doesn’t say he sees water but he also doesn’t say he doesn’t. Probably in part because saying either would be a huge clue.

          • Just because he does not mention seeing water does NOT mean that he can/could not see it. If I asked you to tell me everything that you can see out your living room window, I bet that you would not mention a number of things that are actually there. Just sayin’ – JDA

          • Eaglesabound: as others have pointed out, we can’t draw conclusions about things that Forrest didn’t mention that could be visible from the treasure chest’s location. But it’s hard to imagine a life-long fisherman wanting to rest for eternity somewhere that didn’t have line-of-sight to a creek, stream or river.

        • Well you guys,
          There’s literally thousands of things he didn’t mention…
          I think we should go with what he says he sees…Jmo

        • Sorry Seeker, you have no reply button under your post….
          I guess if you believe the poem is describing 1 single place. That’s not how I read the poem. Your opinion may differ. .

      • Eaglesabound, please pardon my skepticism. Did Forrest say this, or merely fail to deny it?

        • Hi Tall Andrew,
          This is the quote,
          “If I was standing where the treasure chest is, I would see trees, I’d see mountains, I’d see animals, I’d smell wonderful smells of pine needles or Pinon nuts, sagebrush, and I know the treasure chest is wet.”….
          Did he omit things he could see, like water?
          Only Forrest knows the answer to that.
          I only know he didn’t specifically mention water.
          That’s what I meant in my post.

  45. If I’m correct in my current solve I think I could see the sky, the mountains, warm waters and cold waters, canyon walls, rocks, dirt, pine and other trees, of course the treasure chest, and could sometimes hear people’s voices also when I am standing at this hidey space. I might be able to see a couple of animals too. Once I get to THE place myself on my BOTG, I think I will be able to describe the scenery better. Again all this is just my opinion and my thought.

    — MajinKing

      • Hi Jake,

        Thank you for your encouragement. I think this hidey space is not located at a faraway place miles from the trails, but at a very secluded place close from the trail frequented by the visitors, but hidden from casual sights. Therefore, IMO, even if people are very close to it, they either don’t see it or want to bother with the idea of reaching that space unless they are specifically looking for it with the intention of retrieving the chest, since they come to that place confidently knowing that the chest is hidden in that place.

        — MajinKing

        • Makes sense I-Majin-nation-King.

          Though when I took my Mother on hunts this last summer she checks everything. She has a beautiful i-majin-nation.

        • No problem my phone secretly hates me. I just wondered because of all the wordplay on the blogs.

          • Thanks for your understanding, ID. I hate when my phone autosuggests some weird words for my correctly typed right words. — MK

  46. “… but it’s a very special place to me. Otherwise, I would not have done it. I mean, I just couldn’t take it out and bury it in the ground someplace where I didn’t know where I was. I think that was a crucial part of it.”

  47. I think the place is also close, not very close, to the landmark where visitors frequent, literally around 10′ to 12′, possibly in vertical direction, not horizontal.
    — MK

    • I think the hidey spot has to pass the sniff test, literally.
      Remember, he was going to die there and so close to where visitors frequent does not make sense. The treasure would be found so fast using your nose without using the poem then why bother with the poem?

      • Hi Jake,
        I think I’ve mentioned about this a couple of times on other discussions, but the reason why I’m saying this is that the place is close to the trail but nobody is interested in getting there because:
        1) The purpose of people coming there is already satisfied so they don’t have to look any further,
        2) The actual path to it is blocked by rails and they are discouraged by them. Why do they want to dare to go outside the rails unless they are specifically looking for the chest?
        3) That’s why the last clue (at least in my solve) should be “if you are BRAVE and in the wood”.

        — MK

        • The smell of a decaying body MajinKing?
          You have not addressed this major issue.
          People passing by will eventually tell a forest ranger about the stench and will investigate and find the chest and Fenns carcass without the use of the poem.

          • Wild animals will completely consume you ever before you get to that degree of decomposition. Larger mammals are dying everyday in the wild and no one smells the “stench”. Now die in your car, where they can’t get to you that’s called a “bloater”. Drown and then you’re a “floater”.

            Many people want to work in the Medical Examiner’s office. They think it would be like CSI everyday. One day Billy was doing some work there when they were training a newbie. They had a drowning victim they had just brought in. They were filling out their checklist as they were explaining to him everything he needed to do.

            Then they told him he needed to feel inside his pockets and record anything he had in them. I watched as he slipped his hand into the dead man’s front right Jeans pocket. His eyes seemed to enlarge, as his instructor asked him if he felt anything. He nodded and then pulled out a ….FISH!

            See it’s possible to make friends even after you’re dead…Keep the turtles away from me though!

            Morbid Billy

        • ** ** ** MajinKing – “The actual path to it is blocked by rails and they are discouraged by them. Why do they want to dare to go outside the rails unless they are specifically looking for the chest?” ** ** **

          Anymore, they “go outside the rails” to take a selfie doing something stoopit.

          And then there’s this yahoo from Greeley CO:


          • Hi JK,
            I’m not talking about those stupid people, I’m talking about us searchers, educated, determined and focused.
            — MK

          • MajinKing, please tell us again how smart searchers are: how they are too smart to do something risky/dangerous
            that might result in their death while on a search trip.

            Then think about “the lessons of history”, please.

    • “…I will always consider it to be mine alone.f ”

      “If you ain’t the lead dog, the scenery never changes.” When I am in the mountains or in the desert, the last place I want to be is on a trail. Ain’t no adventure in that for me. There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty to where I hid the treasure.f

      Seems to me the last place he’d want to be is where others are.

      • “Each “”close proximity” is different, relative, and site- specific, as you pointed out.. So I can’t answer your question. To an ant a mud puddle can be like an ocean. f “

      • Hi Seeker,
        I think Fenn is teasing us again. Even though he said “There ISN’T a human trail in VERY CLOSE proximity to where I hid the treasure”, I think there IS a human trail in CLOSE proximity where he hid the treasure. Also I think we need to decide how much we’re going to accept his hints, 100% or 50% or 0%? It’s up to each individual.
        — MK

        • I don’t think of the ATF has hints, MK.
          But I do believe there is factual information within some of them, if not most of them.
          I think fenn has given info that is helpful only to keep most from doing stupid things.
          One example is a Q&A where fenn was explaining how he sealed the jar that holds his bio. In the comment he stated; he not ready to say the chest in not in water, but he wanted the jar sealed [paraphrasing]
          IMO.. this was the first time he mentioned the chest and water or mentioned it was not in water… but never stated it directly. Not until later when he may have felt the need to do so…”The treasure chest is not under water,..”

          Other comments have been stated in the same manner. One was a Q&A about; who else knows? where the chest is hidden. In the answer fenn stated; an 80 yr old is not going down and up a canyon. also adding from the “safety first thread” It is not necessary to move large rocks or climb up or down a steep precipice,..

          In an interview; [paraphrasing] fenn was asked about voodoo or something when going on reservations. He answered -in part- no one should take anything off reservations.

          IMO. fenn has given thoughts to what he has heard searchers talking about or e-mailing him there process. I think he has been giving info that is not critical to a solution, but does help in some of the wild ideas we can come up with. So, in my mind, the chest was never in water, not in a reservation, and if fenn is not going down, up and down again when he hid the chest, I’m not going down a canyon either… Does this get me closer? Nope. Does it help me so I can think different thoughts, I’d say it has.

          Personally, I highly doubt the chest is hidden within quarter mile from anything considered a human trail, nevertheless 12 feet as you predict, or a place with many ‘visitors’ that could easily be feet away. I’m also one of the very few that think all the clues are within a smaller area, or seen from on point. I think fenn has us right where he wants us… right near the chest… at WWH.

          • Well Seeker;

            We can hope that he has us where he wants us … right near the chest … at WWH – Just hopin’ JDA

          • I agree with you, Seeker, that all clues are within a smaller area. In fact in my current solve, I can see WWWH and HOB from the blaze, and the distance is not far away.
            — MK

  48. From my internet search I found one opinion is that a decaying body could be smelled from probably a quarter mile away, depending on the wind direction.
    Another site said: Temperature is the number one thing that influences the rate of decomposition, affecting the bacteria and insects that aid in the process.
    Whether it’s sunny, hot and humid, or shady, dry and cool matters. Also if it’s cold and snowy.
    Since Fenn said in Weekly words that “You will find no mildew in the treasure chest” and that most molds need a temperature of 70 degrees Fahrenheit to grow we can ascertain that the hidey space is in an area that stays cool year round.
    A colder spot like that would slow the rate of decay as well as reduce the smell.
    Also, if the area is home to a lot of wild animals the smell of a dead carcass is fairly common and does not attract the attention of locals or CSI officials.

    “your effort will be worth the cold.”

    • Knowing the time of a drowning and the temperature of the lake, one can fairly accurately predict when the body will surface (even with concrete overshoes)

  49. An interesting side note: Did you know that the head and body of baseball great Ted Williams have been cryogenically frozen in Arizona? If one day Science finds a way to revive the frozen dead then Ted’s “effort will be worth the cold” wouldn’t you say? I would also note that no mildew exists where Ted’s body is either. And there is no odor because he isn’t decomposing.

    I just wanted to add this as I find it interesting.

  50. All I ask is to be given some credit and a token of appreciation:

    Warm eye
    Angry River
    24.2 miles
    Tribal lands
    Heavy water
    Water falls
    White Rock
    Toilet paper

    Additional hints:
    Six degrees of separation
    Athletic fields

    He called it the Thrill of the Chase, not the Thrill of the Find.
    I’m all ears for anyone that can poke a hole in this one.
    And yes, it is 8.25 miles north of a Santa Fe.

    Please remember me.

  51. stanza five explained….in my opinion, alone.

    So why is it that i must go? – because everyone dies Forrest, thats why.
    and leave my trove for all to seek. – his “trove” is all the items he donated to the Buffalo Bill Center of the West.
    the answers i already know. – the answers to the touch-screen quizzes at the Draper museum.
    ive done it tired and now im weak. – he has explored Yellowstone extensively, which is coincidentally the Draper museum experience. and now he is old and weak and wants everyone else to share in the joy and wonder he has. he will no longer say- “how dare they go there!” he wants you to go there now because he’s done with it. this stanza works for his favorite fishing hole too, if you want to look at it that way. personally, i dont.

    stanza five is confirmation that you have found the right hidey space for the chest. then, stanza six confirms you have photographed the correct chest.

    i think.

    • bob greene … thank you for not insisting that your interpretation of Stanza 5 is absolutely the correct interpretation.

      Yet, in my opinion, you make the same mistake as almost everyone else.

      Again my opinion is that neither Yellowstone nor the Draper Museum nor fishing holes have anything to do with the poem’s clues.

      Ken (in Texas)

  52. Tarry scant with – scant width
    Translation: black small width or black small opening.

    Scant – barely adequate or sufficient
    (BEAR)ly / cave

    Bare – bore – drill – hew

    If you are brave and in t(HE W)oo(d I g)ive

  53. Pauley T,

    From your comment up thread, you where commenting on JDA.

    You said, “I have absolutely no doubt in my mind, that when the treasure is found, the entire world will SEE just how revelatory your words, along with Forrest’s, truly and amazingly are woven into the fabric of which makes a man a son of Mother Earth.”

    I don’t understand why you are putting JDA up there with FF. I find JDA on the same level as the rest of us poor soles, not up there with F. He at times says something that makes sense and those are few, the rest IMO is just bull. In my mind, why listen to JDA when he’s had 29 botg and comes back empty handed? I just don’t get it. Sorry JDA, I’m going by what you have presented.

    Heck, Dal has, I believe 60 botg, more or less and has come back as well. Dal does have and presented here a lot of information related to the Chase and provides this blog. I will listen to him on that regard, but I wouldn’t put him on the same level as F. Will I listen to his theories, yes, but doesn’t mean that I have to agree with him.

    Its just me when I say, no one should be put on a pedestal, we are searchers and we share ideas that we all are on the same level. Just because someone posts a lot and seems to say things that are appealing, doesn’t make them the wise one to find the chest. I’m a doubting person until proven otherwise. Popularity should not be considered as one as the wiser.

    All naturally is my opinion and nothing more. I just wanted to get things off my chest about putting a person right up there with F. It just ain’t right.

    Just Say’n

    • CharlieM;

      I certainly do not think that Pauly T was putting me up on the same level as Forrest. I certainly do NOT belong on that level.

      You say: ” why listen to JDA when he’s had 29 botg and comes back empty handed? What the heck difference does it make how many trips I have made? Listen to what I have to say, or not. That is a personal choice. Your other comments – .” He at times says something that makes sense and those are few, the rest IMO is just bull.” – indicate that you too read my comments – some good, others not. Why suggest that what I have to say is negated by the number of searches I have made? At least I am honest in saying how many trips I have made. I am fortunate in that I live fairly close to my search area and can make frequent trips. I love the mountains, I love the out-of-doors, and I love the Chase. I consider myself VERY lucky to have found the Chase, that takes me to the Out-of-doors that I love. I LOVE the Chase – and I love the bloggers that talk about the Chase – even you CharlieM.

      I hope you have a GREAT day CharlieM. If you don’t like my posts, don’t read them. You do seem a bit testy today CharlieM. Hope all is well in your world – JMHO – JDA

      • JDA,

        I read your posts because I want to, I don’t agree with some, but that doesn’t mean I don’t like them.

        All is well in my world, thanks. No harm in saying, just IMO

    • Charlie M

      I have SPLAINING to do! (That’s to honor the late greats Lucille ball and Desi Arnaz)

      And that’s EXACTLY what I’m talking about, HONORING PEOPLE.

      Honoring people and their memories is what I believe is at the deepest center of what this whole thing is about.

      Forrest has certainly layed the foundation for something eternal in his life. He will be remembered, a chapter in history.
      A thousand years from now and beyond people will know who he was. BUT, what if Forrest will also bring the memories of forgotten others with him, how could that be possible…………
      And wouldn’t it be an amazing accomplishment.

      I believe JDA and I are on the same frequency, whether or not our theory’s are the same. The words JDA speaks are within the target of which I’m shooting for, understand.

      I have absolutely no doubt in my mind when the treasure is found that it will be a place relevant to the chase itself.

      Forrest said, “When people find out where the treasure chest is they will say MY GOD WHY DID’NT I THINK OF THAT!

      This comment makes me think it’s not on the side of a road next to a truck stop someplace, it’s in a place of relevance.

      The finder will revel in it.

      The searching, the stories, the memories, the friends we make, the families we have, the lives we live, the chase itself all are in the hands of the person who is standing presently speaking of each one of us. Today, tomorrow, or a hundred years from now will someone speak of me?

      The question is if Forrest’s and JDAs and my words are opening your soul to allow the ease in.

      Ahhhh, what a warm fuzzy feeling it is!

      BTW, I have zero botg. People have years invested in this and some have spent tens of thousands of dollars. I’ve been reading, learning and imagining and filled myself with a fortune of knowledge about the chase. Am I closer to the treasure than anyone else? Time will tell I guess.

      Peace to you.

      • Pauley T wrote: >>> “The question is if Forrest’s and JDAs and my words are opening your soul to allow the ease in.”
        Oh my. Now you’re putting yourself on a pedestal, along with JDA and Forrest.

        The point of this hunt is a bit more mundane than what you imply with your idealistic words above. The point is simply to find a physical chest somewhere in the Rockies; that’s it.

        On blogs and on YouTube I see a lot of hero worship, a misplaced faith in people who have chosen to be highly visible in this treasure hunt. But these searchers have not found the chest either, so why look up to them?

        Hero worship of FF reeks of delusion. For example, not for a moment do I believe FF hid the chest to get families and kids off the couch and away from their tech toys; that’s just PR, in my opinion. The real motive was a bit more vain, again in my opinion.

        So you’ve found a kindred spirit in JDA. Wonderful. Just know that posters that post continually on message boards or people who appear continually on YouTube, and therefore come across to searchers like you as heroes or celebrities, have not found the chest and may actually be further from understanding the poem than searchers who have never posted on any message board and never appeared on YouTube.

        To counteract this misplaced hero worship I would love for the actual finder of the chest to be someone who is completely unknown.

        Ken (in Texas) 🙂

        • Ken

          You should check out what I wrote to Jake on odds and ends page, that’ll really get you going!

        • Yo, K in T

          Yup, totally agree…..
          Kin I claim you as a kindred spirit?? Yore words there are definitutly openin’ my soul to allow the ease in!

          LOL!! Good Luck to Everybody!!!! 🙂

        • All I can say is this;
          In a hundred years, HOPEFULLY, my descendants will be sitting around a campfire telling stories and one of them will say, “HEY, remember grandpa Paul and how he found Forrest Fenns Treasure!”
          And their entire evening will be filled with wonderful stories about how their Maverick of a Grandfather had mettle enough to strike the trail and rescue the Gold from the people who look at the glass half empty!

          Cause let’s face it, will anybody be sittin around a campfire in a hundred years talking about those kinds of people.

          I don’t think the chase is mundane, and I will not apologize to any naysayer for the wealth of information I have learned, letting my Imagination explore, or allow myself and the people who inspire me to be belittled in any way, shape or form!

          Boooo Yaaaaa!

        • *** *** *** ***
          TexaKen wrote – ” . . . not for a moment do I believe FF hid the chest to get families and kids off the couch and away from their tech toys; that’s just PR, in my opinion. The real motive was a bit more vain . . . ”
          *** *** *** ***

          A sensible viewpoint, and one publicly shared by ff’s friend, author Mike McGarrity.


    • JDA

      To me, it doesn’t matter if you are JDA, or Forrest, or mother theresa, or Donald trump, or a guy standing on the corner holding a sign that says, “Homeless, Hungry, please help me”, if your words open my soul and allow the ease to drip in to comfort and heal it I truly appreciate it.

      Thank you for the ease.

      • You are certainly welcome Pauley T. “IF” I am in the right place, and I feel that I am, the PLACE has spoken to me in a “Special” way – That is all I am trying to say. If it is not “THE” place, it darned sure ought to be 🙂 – JDA

        • JDA

          Wouldn’t it be a hoot if our solves put us smack dab in the same spot and we stumble across each other at the same time!

          I’ll be sure to have some extra Dr Pepper and snickers bars for ya!


          • You got that right – I would love to meet Ya’. You sound like the kind of “Friend” I would like to run into.

            I usually post when I am heading out, so who knows – we just might meet in that “Special Spot” – JDA

          • JDA

            Sounds good. A lotta winter left it seems. How much I wanna go right now but have to wait. I have to somehow divert my attention to something else over the next few months. Maybe I’ll take up knitting! Lol.

          • In the past I have made tapestries – keeps the hands busy, as well as the mind. Both require the use of Yarns. I know, mind my knittin’ and ease up on the yarns 😉

            Maybe you could knit a cap and mittens, and go to the site a week or two sooner 🙂 JDA

          • JDA

            Well, Forrest did say our effort will be worth the cold, maybe he was telling us to dress warm!

            I enjoy wood working and have made several shadow boxes for family members with aquatic themes. I’d purchase things in retail or antique stores and use stuff I simply found on the beach. It’s amazing what creativity and imagination can build.

          • YUP – YUP Creativity and imagination bring a lot of pleasure in life, and just might be the elements needed to win this Chase – Good Luck to Ya.

            So glad that you are finding the ease you are seeking.

            See Ya down the trail my Friend – JDA

          • JDA

            Isn’t this chase a BLAST!
            We got months to go. Hope we do meet up soon one day. I can’t wait to tell you everything I’ve learned and show you what clues I believe I’ve found.

            Win or Lose, I NOW have a story to tell,
            Talk soon. Peace

  54. Reply button not working for me… to Jake @ 12:54 …. wholly agree with you.

    Pondering ff’s motive may be a bit of legacy building, also some kind of spiritual pay-back for his cancer remission, but mostly, a rich man sporting his showmanship for friends and family to remember him by … a crazy adventure in humor, in denying the undeniable, that “You can’t take it with you”. IMO of course.

    • Come on guys! Criticizing the the hand that may feed u? And putting down those who have done well for themselves? What gives?

      I can tell u that people like F who have done well financially, and then give back in some way (the chase in F’s case) do so in honest desire to contribute to the greater good of humanity.

      The right to choose in what format we do that is the only indulgence we appropriately demand.

      • “Criticizing”? “Putting down?”

        Jeez, Joe. I for one didn’t take anything at all like that from the discussion thus far; you may need to recalibrate your sense of proportion.

        “I can tell u that people like F who have done well financially, and then give back in some way (the chase in F’s case) do so in honest desire to . . . ”

        You know the honest desires of people you barely know? I’ve been married over 30 years, we have three grown kids, and all four of us are still working on that trick.

        I’m not saying it ISN’T, simply ’cause I don’t know any more than you do. And I don’t know why it would make a difference.

        Hiding a valuable chest “contribute[s] to the greater good of humanity”?

        That’s an awfully heavy burden for this whole endeavor to bear.

        Reminds me of a few searchers who seem to sincerely believe that the hiding of this treasure around 2010 somehow helped the American people ride out the recession of 2008.

        If it’s important to you that your participation in the chase be participation in a crusade for the greater good of humanity, all well and good – carry on.

        But that crusade is your movie. We’re all happily following our own screenplays, marching to our own soundtracks.

        First, do no harm.


  55. AGAIN…. reply buttons not working for me……
    Joe, I meant no criticism or put down…. maybe you are projecting your own feelings. The word ‘rich’ is not a hostile comment, It’s just an observation, a fact, a description.
    Jake, thanks.

  56. Seem to recall a week or so ago someone saying they had a dream about the chase. I have not had one of those yet but I did have something else weird happen recently. Got so wrapped up in some details of my solve I literally lost track of the objective here (find location of the TC.) Don’t recall what it was now that got me sidetracked but it must have been some serious juju. Can you believe that? But am back on track now and I think I have a big jump on my next task of verifying a hidey spot location. But got other things to do today: go to church, hunt morels, play some poker, slop the hogs……

    Tomorrow is a new day.

  57. Fenn said at the Lure screening: “The clues will lead you to the treasure and whether it’s buried or not you can find it if you can find the blaze as a result of starting with the first clue.”
    In SB78 he said: “I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.”
    At Collected Works he said: “A metal detector will help if you’re in exactly the right spot.”
    All of these comments tell me that the “hidey-space” can be seen if you get close enough.
    So does that mean that the spot is clearly marked? If not it must stand out in some other way so that one would know it if they saw it.

      • That’s the real trick isn’t it JDA?
        In six questions he said: “..a physical presence is needed to complete the solve. Google Earth cannot help with the last clue.”
        While one may or may not have an idea beforehand, the sight of the spot will congeal with the clues revealing the hiding place to the finder.

        • Randawg,

          If the blaze is a marker for the chest… game over line of thinking… Look quickly down would be, look below the marker, idea.

          IF the blaze is a pointer, how does it work?
          We are told it doesn’t seem to point NSEW [and my guess, any other point].
          However, IF Look quickly down is the last clue, it make sense you can’t find it on GE… its not a place, but an instruction… but what is it telling us if it’s [the blaze] not a *pointer itself*?

          IMO you need to jump back to a clue in stanza 3… that helps with the blaze, as a clue, and gets you to the chest.
          Which, if that stanza’s 3 clue is deciphered correctly, it is also an instruction on how to be wise, rather than wrong.

          Clues are contiguous, meaning they help each other ~ “adjoining” Touching, Neighboring… if you have two instruction… they might join somehow to finalize a clue’s answer. {the blaze}
          PS.. think of creek as a narrow passage [ water or not, doesn’t matter ]
          MY point is; some clues are places and other clues seem to be instruction… instruction, not unlike a blueprint, brings thing together and create something. IMO the instruction is stanza three helps the instruction in stanza four to utilize the object of what the blaze is for… a pointer… and when.

          ~How far is the chest from the blaze?
          ~If you can find the blaze the distance will be obvious.

          If you understand the instruction on how to use it.

          Just an ongoing theory…

    • Hi Randawg,

      Here’s another early quote from Forrest, about whether it’s buried or not, from “Forrest gets friendly mail”, August, 2013.

      Mr. Fenn, If I may be so bold, I’d like to offer a suggestion for your next clue revelation. It might save folks some grief to know for sure whether this is really buried or not. I know you have indicated pretty strongly that it is not, but not exactly been firm about it. For example, I have seen several folks at the Dunn Bridge and at the Red River Hatchery (another popular place with searchers) carrying in shovels. I try to explain they probably don’t need them, but that usually goes over their heads. Anyway, thanks for the adventure. When (not if) I find your pretty little box I’ll be more than happy to return your prized bracelet. Stay well Forrest – the world needs more guys like you!!

      Forrest answered: “Sir, just because I haven’t said the treasure is buried doesn’t mean it isn’t. Reminds me of the old axiom, “Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not after you.” I just don’t want to reveal that as a clue. I hear there is a guy up near the John Dunn Bridge using a bull dozer. Good luck. f.”

      I think Forrest’s answer to this question is so funny because it really seems like he is poking some serious fun at the digging part of the guy’s question. It also seems like Forrest kinda quips…..good luck with that.

      For what it’s worth, I don’t believe the chest is buried. (IMO).

      I also think that Clue #9 tells the tale.

      Besides, Forrest has pretty much only suggested a pair of gloves, a flashlight and a sandwich for lunch.

      All IMO

      • I don’t think it’s technically buried, but I do think it’s probably hidden below ground level. I wouldn’t believe Fenn would risk damage to the chest or it’s contents by having it buried in the dirt and then exhumed by an anxious searcher with a pick and shovel.

        • Yes. I totally agree.

          Some surface litter and debris, most likely. Dirt, sand and gravel? Pick ax and shovel? Not likely. (IMO).

          Best of luck to you. Hope your holiday weekend was a good one!


        • This seems kinda sensible, but maybe you should consider trying
          to define “buried”. This may not be as easy and straightforward as
          one might wish. If FF buried the TC in the dirt, he probably wrapped the TC in something first (or something like that), in order to protect/isolate the TC from the dirt. All IMO.

          • Tall Andrew – Hence the name: Hide-y Space. Think: Tanned Hide.

            And I Spy a Smile in my hidey spot landscape, a virtual ‘forest fen’, that looks suspiciously like the Smiley face in Forrest’s signature:


            This line seems to apply:

            As ‘Eye’ have gone alone in there…

            But I don’t have a shower with a green marble floor, like you do, Forrest. Is that a tear I See???

            Bigger Smile!


      • Please tell us where FF suggested a “sandwich for lunch”. Thanks in
        advance. I appreciate real honesty.

        • Hi Tall Andrew,

          In May, 2015 Jon Lackman conducted an email interview with Forrest. The information was not used for Lackman’s publication and was later shared with the search community, via SB 167, in February, 2017. The “sandwich” comment in question is as follows:

          “People have become fixated on you telling them to bring a sandwich and a flashlight. Are they just wasting their time focusing on these things as clues?”

          Forrest responded by saying: “They certainly are not clues”.

          I agree. Having a sandwich or a flashlight is not a clue. It certainly isn’t one of mine. Is it a hint? It could be, or not, but that is for each searcher to decide for themselves.

          Either way, I’m taking a sandwich because I get pretty hungry when I’m out-and-about out there!

          By the way, SB 167 is worth a reread if you’ve not seen it in a while.

          Thanks for reminding of the actual wording in that comment. I’d not seen it a while either.

          All IMO.

          • While I’m at it here’s the related comment regarding the “gloves”.

            From MW, Weekly Words, March, 2016:

            “The chest weighs 42 pounds plus, best to have gloves”.

            Kinda makes me wonder what the “plus” might be?


            All IMO

      • I agree that it is not buried. Toys are forever in TFTW first chapter. I think that this is a very clear hint for “brave and in the wood”. Under a juniper bush would be a great place to hide it. Many of them live hundreds of years, especially at higher elevations. No one would likely look under it unless they were looking for, there-fore the Sunday picnicker would not accidentally come upon it. IMO of course.
        And then there is his interview that he said he would look under every bush in North America, when asked if he would like to hunt for a treasure.

        • Hi Not Obsessed,

          I hope it’s not under a Juniper bush. That stuff makes me itch like the dickens! In the event that’s where he put it, I’m going in…..LOL.

          Good luck out there,


        • Not Obsessed;

          Forrest said: ““Stop arm chairing that thing to death and get out in the trees where the “box” is, but before you go, look at the poem as if it were a map, because it is, and like any other map, it will show you where to go if you follow its directions.” f MW May 4, 2017

          He also says: “Mr. Fenn,
          Yogi Berra was asked by his wife, “Yogi, if you die before me where do you want to be buried? Montclair, New York or St. Louis?” He is known to have answered, “surprise me”. So, if Peggy comes up to you and asks, “Forrest, if you die before me where do you want to be buried?” What would your answer be?” ~Joe
          Joe, thanks for the question. I have no desire to be buried in a box. It’s too dark and cold for me, and too lasting. I would rather go into the silent mountains on a warm sunny day, sit under a tree where the air is fresh and the smell of nature is all around, and let my body slowly decay into the soil. What can be better than that?” f

          and…”If I was standing where the treasure chest is, I’d see trees, I’d see mountains, I’d see animals. I’d smell wonderful smells of pine needles, or pinyon nuts, sagebrush—and I know the treasure chest is wet. Well you’ve asked me a lot of questions and some of them—most of them I answered, a few I haven’t, but I’ve got to tell you—there’s one thing I told you I wish I had not.” f

          Lots and lots of references to trees – JDA

        • “Is it buried?” That is the 24,000 dollar question. What IS buried? Must dirt be involved? If it is placed in a nitch or “Niche” below ground – Is that buried? What is the differentc between interred, sepultured or buried? What does one make of the picture in “Charmey and Me?” Questions, Questions – JDA

          • Why can’t we define it ourselves for the sake of searcher clarity?
            buried: In a hole in the ground covered and touched by dirt, sand, debris etc.
            sepulchered: In a vault, tomb, or other container or void covered by some kind of cover or capstone.

          • JDA,
            I agree, and we have been told as much.
            It doesn’t make any difference if buried or not… We are not looking for a chest… we’re looking for the blaze.

            ~ Q)Mr. Fenn: How far is the chest located from the blaze? ~ casey
            A) Casey, I did not take the measurement, but logic tells me that if you don’t know where the blaze is it really doesn’t matter. If you can find the blaze though, the answer to your question will be obvious. Does that help?f

            Buried or not, at this point [ finding the blaze] we should know where the chest is at.

        • Not Obsessed, I think that his “typewriter” is a hint to where the chest is. Along with Eric Sloane and his reverence for wood. A “seek-no-further”, to me, makes perfect sense.

    • randawg – I don’t know who said this idiom back in 1660, but they must have known what I would find at my hidey spot:

      ‘Don’t make a mountain out of a molehill.’

      How about making a treasure cache, though?

      No shovel or trowel required, but I sure did wish that I had gardening gloves. And that the ‘water high’ of Spring runoff hadn’t so inconveniently raised the water table. How deep is a hole, Forrest?

      Now I have my own “secret where”. But only descendants of Julius Caesar, and their Search Buddies, who are willing to cross the proverbial ‘Rubicon River’, safely, skillfully and with protection, are allowed in MY version of an ‘ef•fort’. No mating Grizzes allowed! Or Buffalo. Or Moose. Or Coyotes.

      I wonder if Forrest will read this and get my ‘drift’? Certainly “worth the cold”. IMO.

      Giggles and Good Times!


      • randawg – Your Avatar pic looks like a hole diggin’ varmint.

        From that Middle School Class Q/A with Forrest:

        Q. Where was your favorite place? Why?

        A. Why don’t you ask me how deep is a hole? I cannot single out one to be my favorite.

        I will make a list of what I think may be some of Forrest’s ‘hole’ favorites:

        Firehole River
        Nine Mile Hole
        Barnes Holes #1,2,3
        Baker’S Hole

        Ojo Caliente was pretty awesome, also. So amazing to finally set foot in YNP for the first time! And with a fly fisherman to boot!

        Boots on the Ground, Boots in the River.

        “As above, So below”

        Big Smile.

        • Correction: Barns Holes #1,2,3

          Had a nice evening picnic at Barns Hole #1, and met a couple who took pics of several mating Grizz pairs, two days prior, on the opposite bank of the Madison River. Beware!

          • Good luck, Lisa. Are you embarrassed about Julius Caesar being an ancestor? If he had slaves, I wouldn’t
            hold that against you (i.e., consider you guilty of it).

            I know for a fact that I was named after Abraham Lincoln, but don’t assume that you will believe it. So I’m including the bottom line of this message. (Actually, posting a message with no bottom line could be more
            challenging than at first thought.)

            As always, IMO.

        • Sounds like a fantastic trip, Lisa – I think the Chase is a little like internet dating. You finally got to meet your solution in person and I’m glad you like what you see so far. Also enjoyed your list of “hole favorites”. You might add Jackson (Davey’s) Hole to that list.

          Regarding “caching” the treasure chest. I think that if the TC is cached, it may be along the lines of how (it is thought) that the Fenn, Crook County et al Caches were secreted to be retrieved at a later time. It is speculative, since that part of history is lost, but intriguing!

          • Sandy – After looking at the trailhead map at the end of Boundary Street, where there were former power poles down the center, we verified the 214 and 218 Boundary Street address for the FennHaven Cabins by asking at the Branding Iron Inn. I had met the young lady at the desk, when she let me sleep in my car in the back lot November 10-11, 2017. The hotel employees all live in the old FennHaven Cabins.

            After leaving the Barns Holes, we noticed the right turn to the Downriver loop of the Riverside Trail. There were old tire tracks in the wide dirt road. I suspect there is a small cave along there, where Forrest’s family could have hidden their gear, over the Winter, before they built the cabins.

            Here is a link to those trails. The PDF is at the bottom, and that map posted at the end of Boundary Street is on the lower left.


            Thanks again for telling me Forrest recommended the Boundary Trail to searchers attending the West Yellowstone event last year!

          • Hey Lisa…you are welcome. Actually, Forrest suggested Bakers Hole Campground and I suggested the Boundary Trail. Kind of plain at first glance but there are many forks in the main trail that go to the Madison. Lots of tall willows as well. Be careful out there …especially when deploying bear spray.

  58. Sandy and Lisa, your metaphorical ideas about what the hidey spot resembles kinda reminds me of this Georgia Gem and ff’s comment about I know it’s wet.

    When I read the poem over and over, over again I see a cross where all the lines meet and somehow it has take me a lot longer to understand how everyone sees it, the poem, well differently, some see the blaze as a rock, well some see a creek with a waterfall, but I am reminded that Forrest at Collected never answered my question, the one he did not seem to be allowed to answer by his entourage, Shilo carefully changed the subject, cause I see it different, from another perspective, I see the blaze as a living thing, place in time.

    Perhaps a time when things were more peaceful, civil, you know like before the bickering between Democrats and Republicans, reforming conservatives and flaming liberals, you know before the 60’s which reminds me of an old adage; If you can remember the 1960s, you weren’t really there. SO, which since that starts the last 2 stanzas, which camp are you two in, pray tell? Do you believe the puzzle has been solved yet ? Is the Hidey Space really like a Georgia O’Keeffe painting or is all framed up by ff’s reverie from the past.

    I know you two have your ideas about WWWH, HOB and the BLAZE, but where is your heart, and there is the KEY to this poem IMHO.


    • TT…got it… “O’Keeffe rejected the notion of her flowers as sexual metaphors – this is something she feels is created by the viewer who applies his own associations to the works, not hers”. We all see things from our own unique perspectives.
      I like your idea of the blaze as “a place in time”…he covered up “time” metaphorically more than once, didnt he?
      My heart is in the mountains and along the river bottoms.

  59. Something I found out about my “word that is key”. On my recent botg recon trip I ask locals in the surrounding area(s) if they knew this “key word” and if it is related to this area they said “yes”. Then asked if they knew of a place that could be considered hoB and they said “no”. But when I said something related to my hoB idea they then said “yes” they knew and understood where this place was. When asked if they heard of Forrest Fenn most responded no, but a couple did say they heard about him and his hidden gold but they were not searching for it, but after talking to me they might start. They seem to enjoy my stories of past searches, I might have embellished a little. So there might be a few more searchers in the chase now if they can remember Forrest’s name or even here on Dal’s blog since I mention it to them also.
    I always talk to locals on my search trips and tell them to check out Dal’s for info and who knows I might be conversing with some of them here and never know it. LOL

    Good luck all,

    • Well Bur…hopefully you were searching in Utah and were telling stories about previous searches in Arizona ! haha The more the merrier is how I look at it. Keep safe out there and happy hunting…

    • Cool – Cool Bur. I too tell a lot of folks about the Chase – Not so many in my search area though 🙂 JDA

      • The more the merrier is right. At this point, A I just hope that someone finds it so that I can tell my wife “I told you so” about the treasure being hidden is real and so that I can go on with my life. LOL Somebody find it this year please.

  60. “What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.”
    He said – “it’s in the Poem.”
    Perhaps we all need to do an about-face?

  61. Mr Fenn has said/written many things. I’ve focused on the most bizzarre, and they seem to be connecting. Childhood recollections also. What was his earliest memory of discovery in the woods? Turning over rotting logs. He said it was getting increasingly difficult to be Forrest, unless he was hiding behind a tree that might have an F carved on it. These are only two items I put to y’all to help locate the hidey space. Gotta get close enough first.

    • The nonsensical. The sillier the better. Mr. Fenn did not waste his words, and quite likely was dropping hints. Freud would have been impressed with the double, even triple, entendres.

  62. I believe that FF picked the hiding place not so much for what is RIGHT THERE in that exact spot but for what he could SEE from that exact spot . IMO

  63. (I am paraphrasing some) Ff said he made two trips from his car to the TC location, in one afternoon, when hiding the TC. When asked if HE followed the poem clues, BOTG, when hiding the TC, he responded “you have to follow the clues to find the TC”. This, IMO, does not indicate HE followed the clue route, only that we do. As ff knew where he was going to hide the TC, he could go straight there. The clues were developed to provide a path for seekers to follow to the TC.

    Also, there only appears to be a second person indication (not a direct quote by ff) that ff said there is NOT a manmade STRUCTURE associated with some of the clues, HOB, for instance.

    If I am mis-interpreting what has been said, please correct/show me otherwise.

    I hope to make my third BOTG search later this summer.

    All IMO. Chuy

    • To your first point about following the clues, dave nyblom, I think you’ve conflated two different quotes.

      The first was a Q&A, and does have the ambiguity you noted:

      Q – When you hid your treasures, did you take the same path that is described in the poem, or were you able to skip some of the steps because of your familiarity with the area?
      Thank you Curtis

      A – “The clues should be followed in order Curtis. There is no other way to my knowlege.” f
      *** *** *** ***

      The second one was a standalone statement, and is much less ambiguous:

      “To answer some questions and save others from being asked, I did follow the clues in the poem when I hid the treasure chest, although I hid it before the poem was complete. (Completed?)” f
      *** *** *** ***

      There’s also a third statement (Q&A) that kinda fits in with those two:

      Q – Dear Mr. Fenn, Once you hid the treasure, did you take the exact same route in reverse to return to your car?
      Thank you. ~ Tyler Y.

      A – “Yes I did Tyler, it was the most direct route.” f
      *** *** *** ***

      “I did follow the clues in the poem when I hid the treasure chest” doesn’t seem to leave a whole lot of wiggle room, and it seems that’s also “the most direct route.” (which addresses your “as ff knew where he was going . . . he could go right there” observation).


      • “ ‘I did follow the clues in the poem when I hid the treasure chest’ doesn’t seem to leave a whole lot of wiggle room..”

        We were also told by Forrest that he didn’t count the clues until he was finished. He might have only needed to follow a fraction of the nine clues. He followed those that were already in the poem at the time of hiding the chest.

        That loophole makes me ignore the entire comment. I don’t think it helps.

        Thanks for those references.

        • Hey-O, Muset –

          Q – Forrest, Did you intend for there to be 9 clues, or did it work out to be just right with 9? ~ halo

          A – “Nice thinking halo, I didn’t count the clues until the poem had been finalized. Although I changed it a few times over the months *I think the number stayed about the same*.” f

          So if “the number stayed about the same”, maybe 8-to-10 or 7-to-11 clues at one time or another, or maybe even 6-to-12 (varying by 1-to-3 in either direction).

          Making it equally possible that he followed *more* than 9 clues when he hid it.

          But I take your point. How we go all depends on how much wiggle tolerance we allow for the quantity “about the same [number of clues].” And that any need for slicing-and-dicing that quantity at all can invalidate the process.

          I admit that anymore in my interpretations, I lean pretty far in the direction of *you can’t really reach the chest (physically) without following the clue path.*


  64. When my family goes to Eagle River Alaska to visit family , we always go to the Nature Park to walk the manmade trails to see wildlife and because it is so beautiful and peaceful . It is a very SPECIAL PLACE for us , but say i was to hide a chest there for all to seek , i would hide it off the road [ away from people traffic] and off the human trail [ away from people traffic ] so even though i hid it in my special place [ which is big ] it`s in a very small SPOT in that place . I believe FF`s location is similar to this , but what do i know ?

  65. I hope to go out in AUG or SEPT . it will be my first , be cool if that`s all it took .

  66. The Hidey Spot. Went searching again- 3rd trip- no treasure. I absolutely would not have taken 100k in return for giving up my solve. The drive home gives a long time for the what if’s. No metal detector used. How many times would be too many to try again. I cannot believe the chest is hidden so easily as to walk to it. I also don’t think I should have to excavate to find it. My purest thought is a large enough stone is covering the chest so that only a person who is looking for the treasure in that area would have only the slightest reason to move it. I know he has not been specific about ” bury” but ideas of hiding in holes/ pockets/ crevices etc would seem like areas that could be stumbled upon. When I have gone hiking/ hunting – I always seem to migrate to looking into areas like these for relics/ bones/ caches of whatever -but even One foot underground- no way could it be ” stumbled ” upon. I have further refined my solve from first to third BOTG but I really am at a point that I think my solve is complete- every word has a justified purpose. How it could be hidden is my big question mark.

    • Bezel: “How many times would be too many to try again”
      Only us searchers can place a number depending what you have found in previous trips but I would caution on going to the same place over and over and over if there is no standout blaze there. Been there done that but who hasn’t?

      Most of us know about the long trip home from a search.
      Sometimes you have to rethink things all over again.
      Maybe start with a new beginning instead of trying to make your area fit your solve. 20+ BOTG adventures is too much, maybe even cut it down to 10 but if no blaze in 10 trips, and no treasure, no dice.
      Probably wrong area and wrong solve somewhere along the line where any clue could be wrong including the 1st clue.

      Nice that you got out there to have evidence of your theory.
      You got to go to know….

      • Jake,

        I guess it depends on your interpretation of the purpose of the blaze. Do you believe it is simply to mark the exact location of the treasure or something else.


        • I think there is only one purpose to the blaze.
          Yes, It simply marks the exact location of the chest sort of like a gravestone marker and wouldn’t surprise me a bit if the treasure is slightly buried. If the chest was in the open, resting on top of the surface, it could be stumbled upon.

          X marks the spot.

          • JDA,
            We agree and have agreed on a lot of things but the ones we don’t seem to take precedence over the ones we do.

  67. Standout blaze is a definite for me. It took first two trips to realize chest is not at blaze though. Too much poem left to solve. Understanding HOW some people could get the right where warm waters halt is a pivotal clue to rest of the poem. It can’t be just an aberration for the poem solver. My issue for a fourth visit is figuring out HOW the chest is hidden without the chance of a lucky finder.

    • I think FF provided for “the chance of a lucky finder”. Otherwise known as the
      reality that eventually, some clever searcher would make enough (own) luck to
      find the TC. As always, IMO.

    • Hi Bezel,
      I think that everything simple here: any searcher (the person who know about the chase, read TTOTC and other Forrest books, has multiple solutions for the poem etc.) is not qualified as a lucky finder. Even if he/she did only 1 BOTG and find TC from first attempt.
      The lucky finder will be usual tourist/hiker that know nothing about the chase and Forrest. During walking around parking lot this person approach the blaze and suddenly see something strange/unusual below of this object. After digging/turn over some stones this person discovered TC, open it and become a lucky finder.
      Definitely that Forrest did everything to prevent any chances for “lucky finders”. The blaze will not attract any attention from them when they passed it withing 12′ or even less.

  68. Person takes his school child out to collect insect specimens for science project and turns over log in national forest and finds chest- lucky.
    Person puts in enough hours to earn masters degrees in geography and grammar and solves the poem to walk to the spot where the chest is hidden – no lucky

  69. From the Torg & Elliott interview:
    T & E: Is it (available) where if I pick it up; do I have to move anything? In the open?; Like a rock?
    Fenn: If you can find the treasure chest it won’t be a big job for you to get it.

    If you can “Find” the chest? He probably meant if you solve the clues correctly..
    and you ‘find” the hidey space the chest will be easy to retrieve.

    • Randawg,

      Trust me when I say I look at many angles of fenn’s comments.
      And sure, we need to follow the clues precisely to accomplish finding the prize [ the chest ] It’s the first thing everyone is told [ via the TOTC book ]….But you added in * “find” the hidey space.
      I’m not understanding why there’s a need to say Hidey space vs. find the treasure chest.

      The Hidey Space or “hidey spot” is a made up term, I believe Dal created for header of a thread… what’s the difference between a place the chest lays in wait / a spot in which it’s found / or simply saying “If you can find the chest… not a big job… to get to it or “retrieve it”

      Are you saying the blaze is a space?
      Are you saying the chest is in a space? And to that, I would ask; what kinda space are you referring to?
      Are you referring to space, in the meaning of art work?
      Are you referring to space as unoccupied – empty?
      Are you saying, something with dimensions of height, depth, and width?
      A space between two thing?

      Could you clarify what is is your saying-?- imply?

      • The title of this thread is “hidey space”.
        To me it means the spot Mr Fenn hid Indulgence.
        What does it mean to you?

        • OK, thanks for the clarification, randawg.
          I read the last two lines as separate to each other.
          You just said the same thing in both.

          Back to the Question; which asked about moving anything… like a rock. or is the chest in the open.

          Wouldn’t fenns answer be of any work that might be needed or not at the hide… rather than… ‘He probably meant if you solve the clues correctly..’
          I mean, “… won’t be a big job for you to get it.” IT refers to the chest and the question “where if I pick it up…” IT being the chest.

          I’m not seeing how “the clues” or solve, are meant in this comment.
          I’m curious how you see it.

          • *The chest weights 42 pounds plus, beat to have gloves.

            What is the “plus” and why is it best to have gloves.

            I infer that there may be something that covers the chest, to make it more hidden, that must be removed in order to reveal the chest.


          • just a hypothetical addition for wearing gloves could also be a [temperature] issue as well. or not…

          • Fenn’s choice of words struck me as odd.
            If one can find the treasure chest would it really matter if it’s a “big job” to get (retreive) it?
            Since we know that at least a “small job” is required, it means (to me) that the chest is hidden behind or under something. (the hidey space).


            This comes from MWs. Jenny give a lot of info she collected and its a good little read of thoughts.
            One being this answer;
            “If you look the word burial up in the dictionary, it talks about sepulchering, about entombing, and there’s all kind of definitions. Quite frankly, it’s very confusing. So I don’t want to answer the question whether the treasure chest is buried or not. Let me give you an example: if I laid the treasure chest on top of the ground, and some weeds blew in there and covered it up, now is it buried or isn’t it? Is it sepulchered? Is it entombed. So, it’s best not to go there I think. The clues will lead you the treasure and whether it’s buried or not, you can find it if you find the blaze as a result of starting with the first clue. That’s what you have to do.”

            The interesting part was fenns’ example; The chest [hypothetically] is on top of the ground, YET, debris blows “in there” covering it.
            I get the idea of, out in the open things get covered easily. But I never got this Q&A because of “in there” .. yet we’re told the chest is not in a cave etc.
            Hypothetical or not his words “in there” automatically brought my attention to the poem’s same words

            In another Q&A;

            It talks about elevation… but that’s not what caught my attention… it’s how fenn didn’t answer the question… he “followed Mark’s reasoning” and LOL finishes with; ” I don’t have the slightest idea what I’m talking about so I’m going to make myself a chocolate milk and go to bed.f”

            Well it seems to me he followed the line of reasoning very well… and I can see a little sarcastic humor on fenn’s part that Mark’s reasoning is off. Not fenn’s

            My point is this; Why in the example answer was “In there” used? I mean, as far as I’m concern fenn is meticulous to detail, and honest to his words. And this one reason I don’t hang my hat o juts one or two ATFs… there’s a lot of information out there that could create the right thoughts and idea of how the poem play out… we just need to think about all that has been said and not just pick and choice what looks good and skip other things that seem to conflict… I say most if not all ATFs are true to each other.

            So why use “in there”?

            LOL then we have another Q&A in Jenny’s thoughts form Dals video; where fenn says “Buried” So if that is true as well [ and not a mistake, which I think in this case is a simple act of hearing buried all the time from other it just rolled of the tongue ] But if it is deliberate buried… how big of a job will it be to get it un-buried?

            OR can the chest’s hide be someone enclosed and be considered buried by one definition and not buried by another definition of the word… as fenn shown by the one Q&A.

            I guess if we could figure out the difference between a small job to a big job that might help… Where’s Mark when ya need him?

          • spellcheck;
            OR can the chest’s hide be ‘someone’ enclosed… “somewhere”

            I’ll add quick… fenn wanted to challenge us to find his bones [ originally ]. That doesn’t seem like the chest is under a log or rock in the open… could the “not a big job mean we need to be in an enclosed small place, crawling in and out?
            I mean, why leave your search partner on the car?
            Why are we told to be able to walk several hours to our solves “twice” *fundamental guidelines*

            just thoughts….

          • Hello Seeker. In regards to small vs. big jobs, I believe we may need to consider how old and fit the gentleman was when he hid it. With this, what do you think would take for searchers to locate the treasure?

          • Hi Seeker;

            I, for one, feel that your, ” could the “not a big job mean we need to be in an enclosed small place, crawling in and out?” is a viable option. “As I have gone alone in there” has always conveyed this idea to me – a small crevice of some kind – JMO – JDA

          • pd;

            Said with a smile 🙂 – ” what do you think would take for searchers to locate the treasure?” – more than nine years of figgerin’ 🙂 Now, on a serious note, it will take a lot of knowledge (Found within and without the poem), a lot of imagination (Thinking out of the box, a willingness to adjust as new information is learned, and a LOT of attention to detail – RESEARCH, and knowing what it is that Forrest values most. JMO – JDA

            P.S. ALL of the above are things I am short of – DARN!!

          • Hello JDA. Nice smile! 🙂 In regards to small vs. big jobs and what it will take to find/recover the chest, and the reasonings I gave, what are your thoughts to what it will take the searchers to find it? Something as simple as brushing away pine needles, or moving a flat stone (small job) or… Gosh, I can’t think of a big job that one would need to do.

          • PD,
            The job to locate the chest is not in question [ the question asked by the interviewer]… it’s the job to get it, retrieve it, bring it home, idea.

            The job of finding its location?
            LOL well, it seems to be a big job, right?
            or at least appears to be by many searchers actions of how the proceed with clue’s references. Folks are all over the RM’s hiking and sweating and searching…
            Or could it be “the job” of locating the chest be more about; as fenn said;
            It’s not a matter of trying, it’s a matter of thinking… people figure the first couple of clues and unfortunately walked past the treasure chest… Torge and Elliot interview in the “media section.”

            My question is, are we creating it to be a big job-?- with the precondition idea this must be a stomping point to point only method-?- even a hybrid versions of stomping and observing?

            This is why I asked randawg to clarify what he was saying about the “not big job to get it”… I think the question only asked for the type of work in retrieving, picking up, taking away, removing, the chest from its hide… not the job of following the clues.
            However, I can see randawg’s point. It was a good thought to raise for a discussion.

          • Hello Seeker. Mr. Fenn’s response about leaving your search partner in the car is definitely puzzling. When it was first posted, I thought the search partner could have been a dog, and the place where it is hidden doesn’t allow them. I’ve tried to find other reasons, and wonder if it was something for us to just speak up and say we would bring our partners with us and enjoy the thrill of searching. Is the chest hidden in a distance not far from where the search partner waits in the vehicle, and can view everything? As for distance walking and the time of several hours, twice, if we did it the way Mr. Fenn, I believe we need to consider his comment about walking less than a few miles, which still stumps me; total distance, one trip, or one direction. His comment is found over at Jenny’s blog.

          • I concur that it is a big job to unravel the clues and locate them on a map, Seeker. Searchers are finding out the physical aspect of it, too.

          • Seeker;

            Small job or big job? That is the question. “How deep is a hole? Where do the clues end? If they end at the blaze, and all one has to do is “Look quickly down your quest to cease,” then it seems like a small job – but there are still 2 and 1/2 stanzas left before “I give you title to the gold.” I think that these 2 and 1/2 stanzas describe what needs to be done, and exactly where to look, and what to look for – making it a bigger job than just Looking quickly down and finding the treasure. Add to this 2 and 1/2 stanzas – all of stanza #1 and we have more than half of the poem to consider. YUP, bring a flashlight and a sandwich, it ain’t gonna be easy – JMO – JDA

          • Seeker, where did Forrest say we needed to be able to walk “hours” “twice?” Can you direct me there?

          • Hi James: that’s just Seeker’s misinterpretation of the following quote: “If you can’t make two trips from your car to your solve in several hours, then don’t go. Don’t search anywhere an 80-year-old man could not carry a heavy backpack.”

            Forrest is not saying it will take you several hours. He’s saying if your solution is going to require MORE than several hours to make two round trips, then your solution is bad. This is a safety lecture aimed at the searchers going 5 miles one-way for their “solves.” Forrest has placed no limit on how short the distance could be from where he parked his sedan. (Though if it was only, say, a couple hundred feet, then there would be no necessity for two trips.)

          • Zap – No need for two trips unless you are 79 or 80 years old and had to carry 42 LBS. At 77 I can’t do it, I barely could carry 22 any distance at all – but then I have a bad heart, and Forrest doesn’t – JDA

          • James
            Its in the fundamental Guidelines at the top of every page, which I stated in my comment.
            Folks should read the blog Dal he set up… it has a ton of information… and not just a chat room.

            Zap, ~’Forrest is not saying it will take you several hours. He’s saying if your solution is going to require MORE than several hours to make two round trips, then your solution is bad. ‘

            LOL I like that you can say this as if it was fact, and call my thoughts misinterpreting the comment.
            So I’ll play the game others like to play… where can I find fenn saying what you claim -?- about several hours is a “bad solution”
            Not to mention you’re put two comments together as it the were stated as one… But yes, you get the gist of “my thoughts”
            Only your claiming “your thought” to be what fenn intended.

          • Seeker: I stand by my analysis of Forrest’s statement — it is a precise assessment of what he wrote, neither adding to it nor subtracting from it.

          • Zap ~ ‘Seeker: I stand by my analysis of Forrest’s statement — it is a precise assessment of what he wrote, neither adding to it nor subtracting from it.’

            Here’s the statement~ “If you can’t make two trips from your car to your solve in several hours, then don’t go.”

            You said; ‘’Forrest is not saying it will take you several hours. He’s saying if your solution is going to require MORE than several hours to make two round trips, then your solution is bad. ‘

            You said: ‘He’s saying if your solution is going to require MORE than several hours to make two round trips, then your solution is bad. ‘

            Where is he saying ” require MORE”?? You’re adding words that are not there…
            And if you do, “then your solve is bad”??

            But you’re not adding or subtracting from your “precise assessment of what he wrote”??
            And say my interpretation:
            ‘is misinterpretation of the following quote: “If you can’t make two trips from your car to your solve in several hours, then don’t go. Don’t search anywhere an 80-year-old man could not carry a heavy backpack.” ‘

            You do realize you are placing two comments together as one, right?
            But you’re not changing anything about the “several hours” comment?

            You can stand by your “precise assessment” until the cows come home… But it’s not “precise” by any meaning of the word.

          • Seeker: you wrote:

            Here’s the statement~ “If you can’t make two trips from your car to your solve in several hours, then don’t go.”

            That is not the whole statement. My quote was more complete. Don’t pretend I’ve mashed together two separate statements out of context.

            “Where is he saying ” require MORE”?? You’re adding words that are not there…”

            I am applying NORMAL reading of plain English. I don’t see how you fail to understand plain language unless English isn’t your first language. This is unambiguous. It is a simple statement of limits: for instance, if your solution is going to require you to spend 12 hours accomplishing 2 round trips, then you are an idiot, and Forrest is telling you so. I am flabbergasted that you don’t get his. “Several hours” is a MAXIMUM. If you exceed the maximum, your solution is wrong. Forrest has never stated a minimum time or distance. (Side note to JDA: if you need any further proof that Seeker isn’t Forrest in disguise, then I don’t know what to tell you. Yes, Seeker, if you haven’t picked up on it from his posts to you, JDA thinks you’re Forrest.)

          • Zap;

            Where the heck did this come from? I often agree with Seeker, but saying that I believe Seeker is Forrest is going a bit far. You have NO idea what I think. For all I know Zap, YOU are Forrest. Just sayin’ – I consider your comment out of line – JDA

          • JDA: withdrawn; out of line to have pulled you into this. Just frustrated with Seeker posting ridiculous nonsense that is so easily refuted.

          • Zap, getting pretty tired of you always saying 5 miles is too far. Since we really do not know, try using IMO. Because it is YOUR misinterpreted view of a distance that can be confusing to new searchers.
            You post a lot, some would even say you have great takes, so they listen to you. To limit these new searchers when you really have no idea or have come up with nothing to support your misguidance, is why the “searcher with blinders” on comes to mind.
            If you can come up with one thing that supports your view, I will come up with three that will support 5 miles. You know better then this, I would hope you can see your error and correct, because I think you are a smart guy, with good takes. But Lugnuts seems so right so long ago. And all this, is IMO.

          • Zap, ~’That is not the whole statement. My quote was more complete. Don’t pretend I’ve mashed together two separate statements out of context.’

            That’s exactly what you did [you made mash potatoes and added gravy to spice it all up] … those two comments were never places together as you presented them [two full sentences combined]. If fact the second half, was told of years before the the first.

            While I think they are connected in an idea; that we need to consider both comments to relate to each other. They were never presented as one with the other by fenn as two sentences together.

            You created your own frustration… no need to whine about me pointing it out.
            You also added “require more” which changes the concept of the one comment… which is not in the comment.

            You said; **This is a safety lecture aimed at the searchers going 5 miles one-way for their “solves.”** Forrest has placed no limit on how short the distance could be from where he parked his sedan.

            I disagree with that, but that is not my point. You are using the idea that this is only safety, and might not be meant as factual for the chase – solution.
            I think it is very important information because it give and indicator, a qualifier of time to consider.
            This is not unlike the comment; he walked less than a few miles, and some argue that can be less than a mile.
            I also disagree with that assessment. fenn indicted “miles”

            For both; “less than a few *miles*” and “…*two trips* from your car to your solve *in several hours*,..” gives indicators of time and distances to consider. Both being from the time we leave are vehicle.
            The comments align well with fenn’s comments of his action [ that we are told ] he made two trips, done in one afternoon.

            I’m not adding the fluffinutter you have by saying; that’s just Seeker’s misinterpretation of the following quote: several hours comment, and adding; ‘He’s [Forrest] saying if your solution is going to *require MORE* than several hours to make two round trips, then your solution is bad.’

            You are eliminating the “time and distance’ fenn as mentioned as nothing more than a safety tip in some broad sense, and seemingly not associated as Miles and Hours as fruitful to the chase. I say your “precise assessment” is not precise at all, because I never added or subtract anything from any comment.
            Like you claimed; I [Zap ] stand by my analysis of Forrest’s statement — it is a precise assessment of what he wrote, neither adding to it nor subtracting from it.

            Note; It doesn’t matter what you or I think… but you went out of your way to imply I was misinterpreting something by adding your own words that were never present in the statement.. saying He [fenn] said this or that.

            End of commentary………..

          • Big job small job, long distance short distance. The comments Fenn has made in regards have been mashed and smashed since he uttered them. As with most of his[Fenn’s] comments there can be arguments made for however one chooses to view them. To hang a solve on any of them seems to go against the grain. Something about TTOTC, GE and/or a good map comes to mind…

            The SAFETY comments are to help folks stay on track and not be foolish out in the Rocky Mtns. Even so… I think folks may still take unnecessary chances when their solve falls apart.

  70. Ok, sounds like some of us may need to look or find or whatever it may take to locate some names of places or things that may make sense to the words and clues in the poem, trying to make sense of all the letters and the words in the poem without matching them out in the Rockies North of Santa Fe to something will drive a person up the wall.

  71. I think the hidey space is a groovy place that doesn’t contain a “tarry scant” (dark stone).

  72. So tonight I went back to the drawing board and tried to look at TTOTC, as well as the poem. I revisited quotes from Forest, the chapters, and tried to look at things from a “subtle hints sprinkled but not there to aid the seeker” point of view. I also tried to think about the word that is key, as well as a way to view things by using imagination, and from an angle that no one might have thought about. I did this considering FF stated how someone might not be coming up with a different way of thinking related to the solve (paraphrasing as I don’t remember exact quote).

    I believe the clues lead you to a location, but the location has nothing to do with the poem. I don’t want to give away too much info as this is thinking outside the box and using my imagination. Utilizing sprinkled clues, a kid might find it, using the poem, book, and a map with an extensive knowledge of geography. These were the only things I used to come up with this new solve.

    If I am correct, the clues definitely do not aid the seeker, but brings clarity to the overall bigger picture. I was thinking of how someone could get within 200ft or 500ft and walk right by without realizing how close. This way of thinking explains to me why.

    As always, IMO this would be epically clever of Forrest if I am correct.

    Stay tuned

    • “using the poem, book, and a map with an extensive knowledge of geography. These were the only things I used to come up with this new solve”.
      Okay James, now try just the poem and only the poem. Look at your solve and see if you could have done it without the book, map, and extensive knowledge of geography. If you need to grab a map, look at the book without the poem telling you to do it, or use GE, then that needs to be addressed so as you don’t need to use those things. It’s a good way to police your solve. So now, you should have said, “all I needed was the poem”, that’s it.
      Don’t get it twisted, I’m talking just the poem solve. Once you have that solved, it should produce a spot somewhere. That’s when you need a map, and some knowledge. The hints and ATF’s will help with the confidence issue.
      If you are happy with your solve with just the poem in front of you, then congrats, if not, if you still have concerns, then time to tweak the solve with just the poem.

    • Good question JC. I believe most searchers, after solving
      the poem/rainbow/map, focus on the end of his rainbow-
      9 clues which, if followed precisely will lead to the end of my
      rainbow, and your treasure- is not the same as- your treasure is at the end of my rainbow. IMO searchers walk by it
      because it was hidden before you reach that point,
      “I followed the poem when I hid the treasure but I hid it
      before it was complete (completed?)” Simply put-
      The treasure the poem and the map all have two ends
      but Indulgence is somewhere in the middle.

  73. The Hidey Space

    Fenn has said : “The immediate landscape will probably remain about the same for as long as time has to go.”

    Also, close to seven years ago, in answer to a direct question:
    Q: How do you know that the treasure is going to be safe and secure when it’s hidden for the next 1000 years. And somebody might not build a bridge and, uh, dig or some natural event might occur that would expose it?

    A: “That’s always possible. Forest fires, earthquakes, mudslides, floods….uh, what you see is what you get. We have no control over that. But, ahh, I think the aura of it will always be there..… It, it’s not likely, but it certainly could happen.”

    adverb: probably – almost certainly, as far as one knows or can tell
    Definition of not likely : probably not

    Since no one knows the location, and possibilities, as well as Fenn; it seems that he is as certain as can be that the chest and it’s location will NOT be impacted by these forces… least any time soon!

    OK, gotta go…..see you guys tonight 🙂

  74. Throughout the TTOTC book, Mr. Fenn’s most pressing thoughts and memories have to do with his adult life. So, I don’t think the hiding place is some where from his childhood. IMO

    • Although a large portion of the book is devoted to his military service and after, don’t forget that he describes the hidey space with words like “dear to me”, “very special to me” and so forth.

      His advice to searchers is to read the book, read the poem, and marry locations to a map… obviously THE map of the search area in the Rocky Mountains.

      I would be interested to know what areas you have found on the map that pertain to his adult life AND that he has mentioned as being dear to him or very special to him. Using that criteria, many searchers (myself included) believe it MUST have something to do with his childhood. And, since Texas is not on the map, …

      Just my opinion, your mileage may vary, not available in all states, void where prohibited, etc.

      • Hi Lori, In TTOTC book, there’s quite a few references to death and dying. The only place I could relate it too as far as his childhood goes, was the West Yellowstone cemetery. Why the cemetery? I thought maybe someone very dear to him was buried there.

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