Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Forty Four


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640 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Forty Four

  1. There was a discussion about confirmation bias, not too long ago. Up this thread was about facts are important. I see a lot of bias with each others reasoning. I think its important to be non-biased in solving the poem, which gives more flexibility to find the true facts. I go with “what if” first, then disprove if you can, if you can’t then move to the next “what if” and so on.

    The correlation between wwwh and hoB needs to be strong and sound, before you continue on. I didn’t forget canyon down etc, it marries wwwh and hoB. IMO

    Trying to help

    • You see confirmation bias with others reasoning. And that it is important to be non-bias. Then you say the correlation between wwwh and hob must be strong. Careful friend that you follow your own advice. There are people that believe the most important thing to do is to solve wwwh because if you know where to begin then the strength of subsequent clue connections becomes of secondary concern. Establishing a solve based the strenth in the connection of initial clues might just be a the type bias that you refer to. Please dont feel like i am judging your position because I am as guilty as they come, but no more guilty than anyone else here. I am only saying that a pile of assumptions are necessary in any solve. The trick is making sure everything has the correct label on it. Those who believe they are using nothing but facts are fooling themselves.

      IMO and respectfully

      • Clee,

        I should have been a little clearer. One needs to be non-biased on each step that is taken. If you can’t disprove on each step, but then the next step doesn’t fit, you go back to the start to see if you missed something, keeping an open mind. To prove all facts, the last fact can’t truly make all facts, a fact as true until botg.

        Hope this helps,

      • I personally would remove the ” confirmation bias” judgment usage phrase. To come up with a solve will have an inheritance of bias. It is unavoidable to be biased whence achieving a general solve by definition of the attempt to achieve a solve. Unbiased would be chasing ones tail for ever more. Confirmation bias are almost easy clicky words to criminalize confidence .

        How can one achieve a solve and not be by definition – biased? If you want to throw words like ” facts” and ” proof” are required to achieve un-biased; then I will say ,’I’ll feel complete when I eat chocolate pudding.’

        In my opinion.

        • Agree! There are an unlimited number of options for each clue and at some point, you must choose.

          Your life experiences and understanding of the world around you are key in your decision-making and fundamental to your bias.

          IMO, the blogs are helpful in determining if you are biased without realizing it–but only to the extent you are willing to share.

          • I am bias towards coming up with solutions based on a belief that Mr. Fenn is an honest and intelligent man and was able to create his poem in such a way that it would lead an average person to the…treasure. Nobody here deals in facts, only conjecture skewed by our own bias.

          • Nicely put, Sourdough. This blog is great in all the critical analytical points of views we can choose to measure our ideas and confidences. Though I only measure and not having been swayed in any way. I agree ,ones lifes experience is our only real proof of our confidence. Many a times I have been catagorized as a bit of a nut bar . Lol. Only later to be called the nutty professor haha. My solve is quite different than what I read here . IMO . I wouldn’t say I am right or wrong or that of anyone else either. I am just giving this poem a shot. 🙂

        • Bias also impacts the puzzle designer, arguably in a worse way because he doesn’t have the benefit of a second opinion. When Forrest published his poem, he really had no way to know how easy or how hard it would be to solve. Since he expressed a desire for the Chase to last a while, it would have been safer for Forrest to err on the side of making the puzzle too hard rather than too easy. He could always supply hints later on if it became clear that he underestimated the difficulty. (And clearly this is exactly how it has played out.)

    • Re. Conf. bias: It’s difficult to bounce ideas off of friends or relatives that are not immersed in the Chase as we are.
      I think that in the end all of us searchers will have to sort out the real facts from Confirmation bias all by ourselves.


      • Randawg,

        I agree with you 100%

        Family and friends who are not interested in the chase and I would think that it applies to not all but to most searchers on the chase.

        Just look at you as if you have a big hole in your head, however it’s great talking with like minded people on the blogs.

        However it will be interesting to see that if someone finds the T.C who’s family or friends had no interest, how will they then react?

        Ronnie the Scot

        • Dal’s: the Forrest Fenn Support Group. Cautionary observation by Rita Mae Brown (oooh, Brown!): “The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four people is suffering from a mental illness. Look at your three best friends. If they’re ok, then it’s you.”

        • Hi Lugnutz…I’m in.

          This is a great way to eliminate brainstormed ideas and narrow the field of choices.

          I have many topics out here….have any caught your eye and would like to discuss?

          Lay it on me…..but as you already have seen, very few have asked me my thoughts (crazy as they are) – or too long of a response maybe!!??

          End of another opinionated commentary.


  2. Yikes, Odds & Ends PART 44!

    Q. Does anyone else believe as I do, that stanza 6 actually names the general area of search? In fact, like ‘title to the gold’, it gives you a title to the area?

    • Since both of you have the same interpretation and it’s no longer a secret could you expound on that a bit?

    • Hi FlyFishin: emphasis on “general” area of search. Still possible (probable?) that OS2 and I have different stanza-6 connections.

        • In Fs first appearance Report From Santa Fe with Lorene Mills 5/13/2011 he says:

          “….and thats why I wrote the poem that’s in my book. There are nine clues in that poem. If you can follow the clues to the chest, you can have it, amd the poem says that.”

          Something about that quote made me think that “and the poem says that” could possibly be referring to stanza six. I hate to use this word…(gasp!) But like a bit of a backstory maybe being suggested in six that’s easy to figure out if you know the poems a hunt….and even easier if one heard the interview (?) I dont know either way. It is an interesting quote to consider when pondering six.

  3. OS2,

    I disagree, stanza 3 gives the final general area of the search. Stanza 6 has the last clue, “in the wood” as the blaze helps in defining the immediate area.


  4. Hey Searchers.I have still not recovered from my boots on the ground trip. I think it is really one of the positive attributes of The Chase that it gets in your bones and for some it gets even deeper into the marrow. Nope no injury recovery just very severe withdrawal symptoms. I did not want to leave that place and it refuses to leave me. This was never a problem with Google Earth. I mention it here to encourage all to resolve to make their solid plans this winter and go this summer. You will never be disappointed.

    • I suffer from this too. I make two one-week journeys into wilderness and spend the other fifty waiting for one of those weeks to roll around again. As a Boy Scout, I would get massive head aches upon returning home from weekend campouts in the woods. Have you tried reading some Muir, Emerson, Thoreau? I find this to be a good wilderness withdrawal remedy.

      • Aardvarkbark…I’m reading “Ghost Grizzlies” right now. If you haven’t read it, I think you would enjoy it. Could Ursus arctos horribilis still live in the Southern San Juan? Probably not, but a worthwhile look at the possibility. I didn’t know that “Florida” means “Flowery” and was named by the Dominguez Escalante Expedition. Did you know that the Wiseman grizz is at the Denver Museum of Nature and Science??

  5. My effort to solve the poem lately has been focusing on the word play and word choices in the poem. Obviously, the poem has some “unconventional “ construction with word placement, word choice, etc.

    I really like the idea of kennings and “marrying/melding” incompatible words to make a new “useful” word. Like “heavy loads water high” could be “Washington” or “ Queen’s Laundry” (like the geyser in Yellowstone).

    Another way I could see the poem worked is in the way some phrases sound…

    For example, “Just take the chest…”

    A popular idiom is “Home is where the heart is.” If your heart’s home is in your chest, I could imagine:

    “Just stake the chest” = “Homestake” which is a place name in an interesting (to me) in MT.

    Just some thoughts…

    • Ha! Jonsey, back 5 or 6 years ago I thought of that, and was unsure of the origin being ‘where the heart is’ or ‘where the hearth is’ (a burn/bake/fire/brown reference)… I wrote to the library of congress and surprisingly got an answer… it is ‘where the heart is’. I don’t think ‘chest’ means the treasure chest.

      • Today I think ‘home’ might be more like, she’s at home in the military, or at home on the range, or at home in the saddle …… color and distance and comfort.

  6. I’m sure each answer to these riddle of clues will be harder than I can imagine they were, and yet so much easier than some of the places some of you have taken them. To the moon with some of this.

    As a complete newbie and moron, even the acronyms of names everyone else knows are killing me. The book names, or poem segments took me an hour of initially learning about this on this blog before I knew what WWWH meant.

    One still escapes me. MR Can a newb get some help on that one?
    While you are at it, help everyone out and just tell us what the HOB is. If you don’t, if and when I find out I’m going to post it anyhow. You might as well take all the credit now for yourself.

    • Test your Google fu. Probably just about everything you could be curious about has been chatted about. None of which is the correct solve else we wouldn’t be having these discussions.

      I don’t put any credence in the hoB as a building or structure. More than likely it is a geological feature, such as a creek or mountain. A good start for a location ‘might’ be alone the wood river in Wyoming. Just so happens to have a good number of similarities with the poem.

    • BB,
      There are pages of discussions on home of Brown in the Searcher’s Discussions that is one of the links listed on the right side. I would tell you what HoB is but then you would miss out on the thrill of the solve, and I would be disclosing that I’m as lost as everybody else here.

  7. I’m getting better at playing with words too,

    For example “few are in tight focus on a word that is key” re-jumbled is
    “tuesday we hate to fight with soft rocks”.

    So watch out, by summer I will be a lead-pipe cinch.

        • I’m too new here to know anyone well enough to tell whether they are joking or not, but I laughed when I read that, hoping I was taking it the right way.

  8. Will be interesting to see how things pan out for ya!

    I, in my early research, was trying to determine what might be the ‘key’ word. I ultimately made an excel spreadsheet and started numerically identifying words. One word stuck out. I numbered it. That number puts me definitively in the search area and very near a “Brown”. That’s all I’ll say about that.
    Coincident? Maybe.

    But since that time I’ve changed my train of thought. I don’t think Fenn coded his poem in such a way. I contemplated sending my current solve to Fenn just to see what he might have to say, although probably nothing. But I think I’m close. I just don’t know for sure that the email I have for FF is correct and I’m darn sure not sending it randomly to someone else, unless they want to sign a non-disclose and 50-50 split. I would also ask that the location remain confidential so long as Fenn doesn’t publicize after the find.

  9. I have a question that l2ay sound odd at first.

    Forrest flat put said that contentment is key. Contentment is a word, yes?

    So why the question about the word that is key? Contentment is the word that is key. If not, why not?

    My last post got censored… Maybe you’ll read this…maybe not!

      • Hi WC.

        Contentment is happiness. A very true statement and echos my little treatise on the “unity and involvement” traits associated to the poem.

        Thanks for adding.

    • twig, he has said a couple words are key. I think you have to take it out of the context it is being said. With the ATF comment we all know, he’s telling us a word in the statement. Not some “keyword”, not some words he has used before, he’s talking about a word that is in that statement. He’s also said in another ATF, the key is correct. Contentment wasn’t talking, Forrest was. It’s a hint to what the “key” is. A little of him is also in the box, another hint.
      The way you have it worded, contentment is not the word “that”. Contentment is not in the poem. contentment is not what he is talking about in that ATF.

    • “My last post got censored”
      Last night was weird. I don’t know how things happen here, yet, but when the new discussion rolled over, I was getting emails for new posts and then the link went nowhere, and a couple of my posts disappeared. I am just guessing that it is probably a tough task to move unfinished discussions to a new page without some hiccups.

      • Hey Hay,
        Sometimes a post might have a word in it that puts it in moderation… you might see your ‘censored’ post pop up later after it’s been looked over. Some post are removed for other reasons… Like giving out grandma’s chocolate chip cookie recipe and it has nothing to do with the chase… [ just and example]
        Don’t worry too much about it… it happens now and then, and Dal or Goofy normal correct it when they can. The other possibility… The Russians are hacking the site and stealing all the great ideas I post… um, er.. searchers posting.

          • You won’t see those posts coming back here. I purged this page of unwelcome and rule bending posts last night.

            Removed about a dozen.

            Read the rules…try to stick to them..
            There is a page for HOB discussions and for WWWH discussions and for Keyword discussions…etc…don’t use this page for those discussions.

            I am trying to edge folks away from using this page for every discussion when other pages are more appropriate.

    • I thought “Indecision was the ‘key’ to flexibility”…
      So, my key word of the day is “adjust”

    • Thanks Dal, who doesn’t love Douglas Preston’s story, and this one even has a free audio sample, although I’m not sure of the voice behind the scenes.

      • Straw, you are up early. La Ciudad Blanca in the Lost City of the Monkey God is the same location where Maxwell Broadbent had his remains and worldly goods entombed in the (fictional) Codex. Still working on the 10th and final clue but think I have a bead on it. Never to early in the morning to practice my sharpshooting skills… all IMO.
        Sally Colorado.

        • Listen to you, Ms Colorado, all bright eyed and bushy tailed. Some of us roll out with just the slight nudge, for others it takes eyeballing a ten spot, I think I know where you stand now. Don’t forget to bend a little, heaven forbid, you might just flow right past it, also IMHO.

          • Just like Forrest, Sally Colorado has learned that the front sight of her Red Ryder is a little crooked…so she offsets some with the aim. No worries – I don’t think I’ll mistake a Hamilton for a Franklin again. I’ve done that before and don’t want to waste another shot. Core strength and target practice. The key to success. IMO.

    • Saw the movie {doc}, want the book…
      Dal, when are you going to write a book about your telling adventures?

      • Seeker-
        I keep expecting a note from Brian Murray at HarperCollins offering me a couple million in advance so I can get started, but so far I must have missed the call or something…
        Maybe they lost my email address…
        Although that deposed Nigerian Prince who wants to transfer money to my bank account is able to find my email…

        • Dal

          If someone finds the treasure he or she will get a book deal and maybe more.

          If it’s you, more books will be sold because you are more interesting.


        • Hey Dal, since you’re out and about I’ve been meaning to ask, do you have any other tales from your encounters with Forrest (that you want to share) like the one you told us about the door/doorway dilemma?

          I found it very curious and I think those are important glimpses into his mind while not in front of a camera. Cheers.

  10. Dal,

    I know that this is an impossible question to answer?

    Just as a matter of interest;

    How many people do you reckon will be in on the chase in 2018, the numbers are just going to increase every year until the T.C is found.

    Ronnie the Scot

    • Ronnie-
      I keep thinking we must peak soon. I agree that it FEELS like there are more folks every year and if this blog is any indication than since the numbers of visitors are still growing here each year I suppose the numbers of actual searchers must also be growing. But because we don’t have any accurate way to count searchers, it’s all supposition…

      I will say that so far there has been a continuing interest by the national and international media to tell Forrest’s story and I feel confident that when the media losses interest we will see declining numbers of blog visitors for sure and by association I assume that would also mean a decline in the numbers of searchers.

      Just a final thought about that…
      Last year at this time we had, on average, about 540 visitors per hour on the blog and right now we are experiencing between 650-760 visitors per hour. Around New Years it was over 900vph and that is a new high for mid-winter. Typically we see our lowest visitor rates from late fall through March. If the present visitor trend continues we are in for access problems in spring because around 1100 connections is max for the blog. After that we see technical slow downs and visitors experiencing notable access issues..

      • Dal;

        W O W – “And the beat go on” Who knows, maybe this year (2018) will be the year that it is found – Then what will we all do? Play Tidley-Winks? – Not me. – JDA

        • JDA,

          If the T.C is found in 2018 would you go on another treasure hunt and if so what would it be?

          I hope that you don’t mind me asking. I’m just curious after reading your last comment.

          Ronnie the Scot

          • Ronnie;

            I am not sure I know how to answer your question. IF, and that is a monstrous IF, I were the finder, probably the answer is no. I am 75, do not expect to live that many more years. If I were to find it, there would be certain notoriety – book, TV appearances etc. Probably would keep me pretty busy at my age.

            If I were not the finder, the answer is probably yes. I love the mental challenge – It keeps me “alive” – How about you? JDA

          • Speaking of treasure hunts….

            I’ve been eyeing the Cabelello Mountains in soouthern NM as a possiblle target if this one ends.

            I didn’t know there was one out here until someone else mentioned it on the blogs.

            This is one of those dreams we all have had…..but trying to live another after this one….wow……in the hypothetical, did I succeed in this one or not?

            That would play a major factor in my next “dream”.

            But alas….we can only dream in the now, and hope for a better future is to come.

            Good luck…..I’ll keep that seat warm….okay? :o)

            Is a folding chair too much your bottom? Of course not, you can bring your own cushion!!

            You do realize I have to “minimize” my expenses!!?? Right?


        • JDA,

          Many thanks for your answer.

          As for me, well I have had a solve for nearly a year now.

          I’ve booked my trip to come over for one trip to the Rockies in 2018.

          I have not told my wife, family or friends as they have no interest in the chase, I have made up a story to them, which at the moment they are buying.

          My flight is booked and it will take me 2 days to get there, and I will be in the Rockies for 4 days, before I head back home.

          I have never been outside of the U.K so this is going to be a big adventure for me.

          Nervous but excited at the same time, if I am successful in finding the T.C then I would like to do more treasure hunts in the Rockies if there are any.

          If I am not successful in finding the T.C then know one will ever know that I was out off the country except you guy’s.

          I will carry on with my metal detecting in Scotland.

          Ronnie the Scot

          • Well, good luck to you my friend. Two questions that you may/may not want to answer. What month are you coming over? What state are you looking in? Just curious – Hope your “story” holds up – JDA

          • Ronnie,
            That sounds like a heck of an adventure ahead of you.. be excited.. BUT tell ‘someone’ exactly where and what your going to do… Don’t leave the family hanging! …just in case.
            Even if you don’t want those back home to know, there must be someone you can tell that will keep it quiet until the time might arise not to.

          • OH NO!!

            You won’t be bring any of that “Itish luck” with you I hope?


            *grabs his four-leaf clover and begins to hold it with affection*

            ….hmmm…maybe there is some sort of voodoo hex I can place upon RtS?



          • So very cool RtS,

            You’ll have reason enough to toast your adventure with a good Scotch (perhaps Cardu) when you return regardless of the outcome – pursuing your chase no matter what it is, provides its own rewards – as I’m sure a great-scot like yourself knows!!!

            So to your US Rocky Mountain Trip I say:

            “May those who live truly be always believed,
            And those who deceive us be always deceived.
            Here’s to the men of all classes,
            Who through lasses and glasses
            Will make themselves asses!
            I drink to the health of another,
            And the other I drink to is he
            In the hope that he drinks to another,
            And the other he drinks to is me.”


          • Mr. Ronnie-

            I think it might be a good idea to “partner” up with someone on the blog on your first trip way out West. If this is your first adventure, it would probably good to have an experienced guide that is familiar with the area. For instance—–There is no cell service in the canyons, the west is very dry and you can easily become dehydrated, rattlesnakes live under rocks except when they are hunting or sunning themselves in the morning, if lost always walk downhill you’ll come to a creek, if threatened by a wild animal…don’t run…that’s what the’re prey does…if you don’t get back to your car before dark you”ll regret it…etc.

            If your solution involves New Mexico, I would be happy to show you around. I would even show you my solve and the blaze (Pss…only the deputy, I and f know where it is) all IMO

            Best regards;


      • I’d say that Longmire might be a reason for an increase. At least it was for me. I had gone over the Poem many years ago, then put it out of mind. But after that episode on Longmire, I went to Google, and haven’t stopped thinking of The Chase since.

        • Hay-
          They rolled in the treasure hunt story in the final episode of Longmire too..Walt disappears into the sunset telling us he is going to go looking for the treasure for awhile. I keep expecting him to show up on the blog some time …but so far all we have is Sheriff Billy.. 🙂

          • Sherif Billy is sort of a defective detective. Right now he’s on the trail of a turnip thief.

            On another note, “The Boys” (three leprechauns Billy and the deputy apprehended) told Billy the other day that pioneer was another term for pikeman. They said it could be useful information to use in”the hunt”…… People shouldn’t play with sticks, they could get their eye poked out! Also, could Enwoods be construed as in the wood?

            Something to stew over..

            Best regards to all

            Billy and the Deputy

          • Interesting combo of words SB.

            I remembered something as a kid that may play a part into this hunt…..sort of Indiana Jones style….believe it or not….but, in truth, it is fun and could very well be used.

            Check this out….well stay with me as long as you can….hehehe…..requires imagination.

            You…10-12 yrs old…..at the local woods, park, undeveloped forest area…or something like that….a small creek about 2 feet wide.

            Willow trees hanging the branches low enough to allow you to swing over to the other side.

            Okay…now add in the IJ style…instead of the limbs….we need to use a big stick to pole vault over the water. Similar? I said imagine….LOL

            Not for the meek (unusual action)….your effort (pole vaulting)…..look quickly down (while you are vaulting)…..and others….

            Wow…you may have just locked into something.

            Okay…..I’m even prepared for this…..I used to be a weapons master within martial arts….namely….the staff.

            The staff is a universal weapon that can also be used not only as a hand weapon, but very versatile in other kicking moves and defense.

            I think I will pack one just to be safe.

            Great idea!! Thanks!

            Good luck to you.

      • Dal,

        Many thanks for the numbers, it would be good if there was a bar chart.

        Each bar represented a country, and every time someone new joined in on the chase it would show up on the bar chart.

        I know that this is impossible, but it would be interesting to see how many people have taken an interest in the chase throughout the world.

        Even the numbers that you have talked about, I bet have taken Forrest by surprise?

        Ronnie the Scot

        • Fenn certainly has gone global with this one.

          I think I have seen names of places pop up and could start with these….

          New Zealand – waves to the chaps down under
          Australia – continues to wave
          Scotland – of course
          United States
          Maybe someone from France….I think.

          Anyone else have any countries?

          • I think I should have remebered that….sorry Alt.

            Yes – our brothers to the North are involved….I think I’ve seen a few of the
            *in his best Doug McKenzie voice*
            …. Great White North Hosers on the blogs!!


            Did you guys ever figure out a feasible way to get it across the border in the most inconsipuous way – if you were to figure this thing out?

            Disguising it as a Saint Bernard’s “neck barrel” maybe?

            Don’tcha knooow…..


          • Have I figured out the way to get it across the border if ever I solve this poem? Yes, I would just have it in my truck and go through the border crossing without mention nor declaring it. Not a problem, and have not been searched going through the border. If I was searched and they found it , I simply own it ( title) and brought it with me. I don’t pay taxes on it either, here in Canada. We have different tax laws here for gold and precious metal things.

            Easy peasy for me to bring it across.

          • Nice!! I’m glad there is way for an foriegn national.

            Cool…..do you have any plans to ever bring it back to the states for a tour?

            You know….for us who never got to see it?



          • Haven’t really thought that far ahead. I am not one for a tour, talk shows, 15 minutes of fame kind of stuff. My ego is beside me, not in the lead. Lol. II don’t need to feed it. I would just sell it and post my solve through whatever means. The USA cannot collect taxes from here unless I am there in the USA. So, I would likely remain anonymous so I could still visit the USA with issue. IMO .

          • I can see that….cool…..that sounds like a good plan.

            Bummer it will be for the rest of us…..but more power to you!

            I wish you success and dreams come true A!!

          • I don’t understand why it would be a bummer to anyone. I would post my complete solve and where. I would just remain anonymous. The only thing unknown in the chest is the ,’saved especially for the person that solves the clues’ thingy. I am more interested in that item , more so than anything else.

          • Maybe it is just me…but I’ve been on this hunt for years….and to know somebody is just going to secret it away and not – in the least – take it on tour to places where other searchers could at least look at it and maybe enjoy a lecture of the solve from the finder.

            I’d love to see what I missed, that would be soooo much fun. Knowing where I went wrong might be a bit of a kick in the pants, but it would bring closure.

            Granted a book is good….TV talk shows, etc….yeah, yeah, they sound like fun all expense trips to where ever, but….truly us seekers are where the fun is.

            I know there are probably tons of people who agree with my thinking, maybe not, but it be cool none the less.

            Think about it…..you never know…..you may change your mind.

            Would you come to a showing of the treasure if it was found? Maybe here a lecture from the finder? Not cool or fun – too much hype?

            Curious minds want to know!! LOL

            Cheers Alt!

          • A person can facilitate all of your listed desires and remain anonymous. In my intent ,is to show all of the processes in the solve. A person can do a live forum about it if they choose and still be anonymous. Maybe the purchaser of the chest from the finder would show it somewhere. I like my privacy . My name doesn’t need to be known lol. Be not concerned Tim, the likelyhood of me finding it , is slim to none. IMO .

          • LOL

            Fair enough….for me – I guess I am okay with a little stardom I never had. 15 minutes of fame could go a long way with the finder.

            I too plan to secret it away until the right time.

            LOL…*smiles*…..If I was lucky enough this year….I may release the information of the solve In “October”.

            Why? Because there is an ancient Nostradamus prophecy I read somewhere in the quatrains, that [parahrased of course] :

            “The words will be revealed in October”….or something like that….I should look it up again and see what it actually says.

            But it plays well with this chase and all.

            But I think you see where I was going with this, huh? Completing a prophecy and all….hehehe….wouldn’t that be a hoot!!



            I’ll see if I can locate that quatrain….and then post it……LOL

          • Um well, okydoky. This is a TC hunt, so posting a Nostradamus quantrain is not really a thing to do here. IMO .

          • I did find a “reveal in Ocober” but I think it was something to dowith Frane.

            Oh well….i thought it would be a fun wrench to throw into the world news…..hehehe

            Enjoy and be safe.

  11. GCG

    Well you don’t read like you are going to listen, but I shall try.

    It is possible that an ATF comment may refer to the treasure. I think it unlikely in any comment Fenn has made since the date when he said he would no longer give clues.

    If you are looking for clues in His comments you will find them.

    Will you come back here after your search and share your meaning for It? Your WWH?

    This is almost verbatim the conversation I had with Zap a year ago. He will never share his keyword or WWH in the little time we have left.


    • Lug
      I will always listen – it doesn’t make any sense for a serious minded searcher to ignore details which illuminate our personal blind spots or that exposes the falisies of cherished beliefs…

      I’m not saying that Forrest is providing clues – but instead hints. Regardless though, what was the date He said no more clues?

      BTW last night I had specific examples on multiple hints and I even gave a little info on “Canyon” but Dal wiped them because he wants those comments elsewhere (I guess – I’m not sure what other rule was broken?)

      Did you see them – is this what you are responding to?

      Lastly if I don’t find the treasure chest this spring-summer it will depend if I’ve had the opportunity to work through the variations or I can’t find the glaring error in my solve.

      Last summer I knew there were gaps but believed my solve was strong enough that it would be wrong not to take a shot especially because ultimately “from there it’s no place for the meek.

      But I’ve always stopped once my solves ran out in reality – when the trail goes cold because the solve wasn’t complete enough for the field to give up its secret…

      This IS NOT the case anymore — for me
      It’s down to the last draw or clue — it’s down to a few specific 30’ radius’s

      All in the same place and each approx 500’ apart


        • CC,

          I don’t feel comfortable answering that question in the open forum currently. I am working to provide the search community with really quality post and believe I have insight to the poem that I haven’t read else where and this insight has made all the difference for me.

          Also the search community on this site is wonderful in general and I don’t want to alienate anyone by revealing my state of search. However my state was not a choice. I used only the poem to get there and afterward found that the book TToTC and Forrest barrage of hints in videos and Q&A’s all seem to substantiate it…

          Also the first stanza provides a definitive clue IMO (apparently I don’t include that enough)…”And hint of riches new and old.”

          This is plain english and he has no intent to deceive…

          GCG – me telling people won’t convince, each searcher must come to the conclusions for themself… and we have been given a plethora of information.

          • I have been reading your postings and like your way of thinking. Please let us know how your search goes this spring/summer. I wish you well.

          • Yes GCG, thanks for sharing. I appreciate your insight into the poem clues and their interpretation. You wrote a few things recently that made me think but I didn’t want to ask too many questions. So, just this one:

            In your opinion, the clue ‘begin it where warm waters halt’, stands alone or the previous or following line may also hold some significance to fully decipher it?

          • CC,
            I look forward to sharing success or failure with ya’ll

            This community is really the small fraction who can truly appreciate what has gone into either…

            It’s only Ernest failure that is are greatest teacher!

          • GCG –

            The numbers posted by Dal each year are so crazy. There are hundreds of people on the site each day and how many, 25, posting regularly?


          • Very interesting numbers Dal posted. I imagine there many minds and skill sets looking into this Forrest Fenn Treaure Hunt and still no one has solved it so far . I wonder how many ex and current intelligence agency analyst folks , detectives etc ,are working on this ( other than Toby) ? Whomever solves this just might get recruited lol. Cold case extraordinaire.

          • OZ10,

            Stands on its own as a clue but by itself it doesn’t (IMO) provide the searcher with confidence or a large measure of certainty. TToTC’s 2 major clues however do! And I believe this is why Forrest has said this repeatedly.

            I want everyone in the Forum to know, that if I’m the one to find the treasure, it’s not because I’m so smart it’s because of the searcher communities willingness to discuss and share ideas. Out of the 9 clues, I have a forgotten forum member who helped me produce my solve for NFBTFTW, I have JDA to thank for part of my interpretation of Tarry Scant, I have the forum member called “Surfer-something” to thank for my final realization which allowed me to actually produce my latest definitive solve.

            I have read literally thousands of things that didn’t work for people, in my business we call this negative data and often negative data can do more to inform than a positive data point since negative data can allow you to wipe out large areas of unproductive options… etc, etc.


          • Sorry Correction:

            TToTC’s has 2 major hints to help the searcher identify the first clue (at least)…


          • GCG

            Glad that I could be of a little help.

            Good luck with your search and TRY to STAY SAFE – JDA

          • GCG ~’BIWWWH
            Stands on its own as a clue but by itself it doesn’t (IMO) provide the searcher with confidence or a large measure of certainty.’

            I get what you’re saying… however, If there are many wwh in the Rockies, how can it be a stand on its own clue? Not to mention the “and” seems to imply ‘in combination with’ as well as NFBTFTW relates to whatever the first part of this sentence is.
            Confidence aside…
            This has been a dilemma as to, how many clues give us an answer. We may see three clue in this part of stanza 2… yet there might be only one connecting answer to tie it all together.

            There was a [ I believe, second hand information ] comment that fenn was asked why searchers quit after the first two clues. The response was [ if I recall correctly ] they didn’t quit, they left the poem. [I bring this up for thought only and not so much facts needed ]
            IF searchers deciphered the first two clue properly and intended to move to the next assumed clue… did they walk away from a clue that combines a full answer to that sentence? Meaning, they needed all three clues to understand what it is all about… because two just won’t cut it.
            Many who explain their solve process seem to force a clue to be a physical stand alone place… I can’t see how, for example, NFBTFTW to refer to a ‘place’ but it must mean something in regards to the a place the prior clues indicate.

            I could offer the ‘idea’, that using the same [ they left the poem ] that all the clues are so tightly combined [contiguous as in touching/combined] this entire poem could be describing the blaze itself… of course this leads to a perception of size and another consideration… is finding ‘found’ the blaze, more about creating the blaze from all the clues or is the blaze a stand alone clue or ending of the challenge, idea.

            The one general commonality with all the first two clues solved comments is… searchers walked by/past the remaining clues and the chest… So did they simply leave, leaving behind all the clues? or did they leave because they didn’t combine certain clues for an full answer leaving part of the poem unsolved?

          • Seeker,

            This is the Odds & Ends page so I moved all my detailed comments involving WWWH and the Nine Clues to those sections of the Forum…


    • And Lug,

      Not to avoid specifically answering your question – I’m not opposed to giving up my location for the first clue however I am not inclined currently to give up “IT.”

      I believe that my solve has significant if not all the key components and if for some reason my first clue solve is incorrect (which to me seems ridiculous), then it comes down to how much I want the treasure found while Forrest is still alive and what the prospects for collaboration look like…


      • GCG

        If you see this and you desire to do so, kindly email Dal and he can share my email address with you.

        I don’t do this often, communicate outside of the blog, but perhaps you would feel better about something that way.

        Maybe we can discuss your general area and I will share with you what I have in that area as well as my map of locations.


  12. I’ve just watched The Da Vinci Code… I can’t help but feel that I am also on an epic quest like they are in the movie.

    I wish I was as smart as Robert Langdon. lol


  13. Mr Fenn has commented that one should be a “logical thinker” but then said: “Don’t let logic distract you from the poem.”
    Is this telling us of possible interpretative misdirection or that something in the poem may seem illogical if viewed a certain way?

    “Some people say I have a desire to mislead. That is not true.”ff

  14. Tim

    The link to respond says im replying to Anonymous for some reason.

    Inferno, we were talking about the other Dan Brown film.

    Inferno seemingly references our chase.

    At 1 and

    Ancient fisherman learned to sail where the warm water met the cold. The small fish would stop at the edge of the warm waters and the big fish would come out of the cold water and eat them


    • Lug,

      Thanks for the info. I’ll have to check it out. I wonder if the book is different from the movie?


  15. Ronnie the Scot, AKA Ronnie mcclean, my family is of Scottish/English and Native American “Creek…Muskogee” Nation, I believe Forrest family were Scot’s, in some part as well, and if it is an advantage I looked up the Fenn family name, crest and Kilt/cloth and Coat of Arms and there could be some relation to the Scottish Rite for them, but like Native Americans, there are many SECRETS we are not privileged to know, some things about your and my culture, like my family name read ” ‘S Rioghal Mo Dhream” are kept secret and are rac in nature, for they are considered racist today.

    You will have a great adventure here in the Rockies, and the only frontier similar to it is the Great North in my opinion, so please enjoy your trip and stay safe, if you are near northern NM check out my winter thoughts article and give it a look, it is the highest RR in USA and recently my video went over 1400 views.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-GD4vhA3No It could just be :Heavy loads and water high?


  16. A friend of mine, has a spring on his property. Water from the spring forms a small shallow creek. So, does my friend have a spring, or a creek, or both? If the place was named for the spring, should we assume that it can’t be a creek as well?

    • He has a spring and a creek, which are often, if not usually, co-named….e.g. “My Creek” originates at “My Spring”, and discharges to the “My River” near Old Dime Box, TX. (just a made up example)
      Joseph, sporting a new handle

  17. JDA, Seeker, GCG and all you other guy’s.

    Many thanks for the support, to answer your questions;

    I will be visiting the beautiful Rockies in the middle of June 2018, I wanted to come over in July however the tour operator wanted an extra £600.

    Regarding your question JDA about the name of the state, I am keeping everything close to my chest, I hope you dont mind.

    What I will say is that I have been studying my solve for nearly a year and I am happy with my solve.

    You only live once so I decided to grab the bull by the horns, after many a sleepless night, I just decided to go ahead and do it without telling anyone, so I’m all booked up and ready to rock and roll.

    Having to keep something like this to yourself for more than a year is not easy, especially when you have family and friends that show no interest.

    I am planning to put something in place regarding letting my family know that I’m not in Scotland should anything happen, but not sure yet how I’m going to do that.

    Thanks for your advice seeker it is much appreciated.

    Many thanks for the poem, I had a good laugh to myself.

    I am nervous but excited at the same time, I have obviously got a bit of adventure inside of me that I didn’t know that I had, but that’s what the TOTC does too you.

    Wouldn’t that be something guy’s if a Scot got the T.C first.

    I will keep you guy’s posted, it’s nice to talk to like minded people.

    Ronnie the Scot

    • I hope that “Mother Nature” lets you visit the area that you plan to go to in mid June – Good Luck – JDA

    • Only if an Irishman nabs the gold first….

      Good luck RtS!

      Are you bringing single or double malt.?

      • Tim Z,

        I’ve got irish and scots blood.

        I am going to take a miniture bottle of single malt whisky and replace it for the T.C

        Ronnie the Scot

        • okay…..leave a glass……i’ll need the shot, knowing you were there first!!


          Have fun and be safe in yur quest…..

          • In some ways…you will hope I get there before you……*smiles*…..

            My dream includes others geting part of the treasure….but it involves me finding it first.


    • Ronnie,
      Beside letting some one know where “exactly” you’ll be going… full route. You can rent a personal satellite locator beacon… some as low as 25 plus. Your going to need a backup system if your are going to do this, and not let family know.
      I don’t know why you want this to be so secretive… but, put a plan of action together with someone… call each day – email each day, so if something does happen [ no call or email ]… the right calls can be made when needed.

      Heck, stop in at the local ranger office or other authority and tell them you’re going hiking… should you not return is X amount of hours / days for them to start looking for smoke signals… ya only have to tell them 85% of the truth… seems to work for many here on the blog.

      • I agree with Seeker on this… I have been thinking of posting something similar, glad he took the time to do it.

        Whenever any of me or my mtn biking buddies go out on a remote solo ride we send out a “Ralston Text” (yes, we actually start the text that way), based upon the guy that had to cut off his own hand while stranded alone where no one had known he was exploring. We advise of location and expected return. Then we text back after we finish the ride.

        Better to be safe.

        • Off topic, sorta of…
          When I heard Aron Ralston story, I was impressed with the level headed man right from the start. For those who have not heard of him should read about his situation of survival.
          Thinking everything will be ok when your out, especially on your own… ya need to think some more.

    • June is too early in many areas. Some still have a couple FEET of snow (even at only 8,000 feet) until late July. Thus many roads are still closed, streams are flooded with runoff…

      June is early.

  18. Ok this is a fitting comment for the Odds & Ends page;

    Many have wondered how big is the search area covered by the Poem’s clues, well in my solve the total distance traveled from WWWH to the Treasure is less than 4 miles if you go right to it…


    • GCG –

      OK so 4 miles. I won’t say it’s impossible to be true, but I will ask.
      Is there only one way to run that 4 miles?


      • Forget the ‘only one way’ 4 up and back is 8 miles X 2 trips is 16 miles.. @ an reasonable 2mph pace that’s 8 hours. He’d have to start around 7am to get back from the second trip by 5pm… or 8am to 6 pm or 9 am to 7 pm or 5am to 3pm… lol no matter how you look at it, it doesn’t seem to be in “one afternoon” time span.

      • If truth were known – (Distances as a crow would fly) – you could draw a triangle with a base (A-B) of 10 miles
        a side (B-C) of 6 miles and a side (C-A) of about 12 miles and cover all of the points in the poem – JDA

      • JD –

        Are you searching an area of 100 square miles?
        I have been lost in 5 acres!
        Good luck with that!!


  19. Side note: The person who finds the TC can simply declare they found it, show it is in their possession and not disclose where they found it, if there is in fact “red tape” associated with its location.

    • Fly – so you think that was FFs intent? To leave his legacy so that no one ever talks about it? He ‘thought of everything’ and paid a lawyer to answer specific questions (we don’t know what those were). IMO, I think the finder was intended to talk about it…all of it.

      • …WIth or without FF involved.

        I agree.

        I really don’t think he cares….shoot…he left a couple of mil in the wild for ANYONE.

        Anyone who can figure out his poem/map gets the gold. Plain and simple.

        If I decide to FF know I have the trove, it will be on my terms….”finders keepers losers weepers” is very pertinent if found n BLM land.

        Is this wrong to think like that?

        Nope. He shouldn’t have left it unattended!

        I have a plan in place if I find it. A plan I think FF will approve of…too bad if chooses not too….it is a fun one!

        Do I include FF…..I already said I will ask.

        I cannot make him do anymore than what he already has….that wouldn’t be my style. He has to make the decision….and wait for what will come….or not.

        He’s paying it forward….so will I.

        • Tim you “appear” to be making two contradictory statements:

          1) “If I decide to (let – sic) FF know I have the trove, it will be on my terms…”

          2) “A plan I think FF will approve of…too bad if chooses not too…”

          How can Forrest approve, or not approve of your plan if you do not let him know? Just askin’ JDA

          P.S. Not arguing with you, just askin – It is OK if you do not answer. JDA

          • Understood….good question.

            1) “If I decide to (let – sic) FF know I have the trove, it will be on my terms…”

            2) “A plan I think FF will approve of…too bad if chooses not too…”

            1 – exactly how it sounds. I “own” the trove, if found on land that allows it. Fenn is out of the picture – technically..
            – technically – he isn’t, because a trove is supposed to be returned to the original owner if alive. If dead, ownership transfers to the finder….if BLM land….other lands have different processes…..of course this is the simplest way to look at it.
            – I get to decide if I want FF included or not……he gave us “title to the gold”. To me that sounds like a final transaction/deree.

            2. Correct. My plan may not be an approval of FF. I don’t really need it, do I?
            Oh…but I will…I’m courteous like that. I know if the roles were reversed….I’d do exactly what the finder wishes…..it is now in his/her corner.

            I’d love to be part of what they decided…..or not decided.

            If I were FF – more power to the finder. But I am not Forrest, so I really don’t know what he had planned for……shoot…..I think he planned on being dead.

            *shrugs* Just my thoughts…..

            Good luck.

        • Tim- no so fast partner…when and where does FF state that figuring out the poem/map would get one the gold?
          im not seeing it.
          my understanding is we get to take a chest.
          i think.

          • Hi dodo….”trove”….look it up in every legal article on the web. It will be worth it.

            I agree it should be returned to FF.

            BUT….Uhm….”I give you title to the gold”….is quite a decree to make AFTER you release something for the world to “take….and go in peace.”…isn’t it?

            IF found while alive, the trove is designated to be returned to its owner….true law from all that I read. No idea gnation on how it is returned…that is why I suggest to others to secret it away and plan to talk with FF in secret, to ask him – what he recommends.

            This is new to many…including me.

            The poem declared ownership, the book declared ownership, FF has verbally stated ownership is transferred.

            One piece is missing…IMO.

            That is why I think there is a business card of an exclusive lawyer, who handles all the final transactions…for FF.

            Then the trove is free and clear of all previous owners.

            Just my opinion.

            Believe me…I’ve thought about if I ever did get this thing right…..and thought about what kinds of hoops I will have to jump through.

            My conclusion…it should be an easy transfer of ownership for whomever finds it.

            Just my opinion…I am no lawyer…so don’t use my words as evidence…I’m also not any sort of legal advisor…my words mean diddly.

            Good luck….legal issues…it’s a pickle.

          • Tim- well, your vision is greater than mine. i thought FF was asking a question about the trove, as if it were a separate entity.
            “why is it that i must go and leave my trove for all to seek?”

            but there is no question about the chest to take. so i saw these as two different things.
            but now i understand after reading your comment that trove, chest, and this “title to the gold” are all the same thing.
            i was way off.
            sure is a lot easier your way.

      • TBug,

        I think FFs intent was for the TC not to be found. Put in a location only FF has been to. A place no else has been to or knows about. The ultimate hiding place.

        What happens when somebody finds it, is less relevant to him. It’s the Chase. IMO

        • Fly Fishin;

          I have to disagree with almost everything you said.

          “I think FFs intent was for the TC not to be found.” – I disagree. I think he wants it to be found, the question is when? While he is alive? – 100 Years down the road? or 1,000 or even 10,000?

          “Put in a location only FF has been to. A place no else has been to or knows about ” – I think that at least two others – both now dead – have been to the site with Forrest.

          I agree with your last statement – JMO – JDA

  20. How many of you guy’s would tell the exact location if you where lucky enough to find the T.C?

    If I was lucky enough to find the T.C first, I would let Forrest have the final say, after all he set this whole thing in motion so I think that he should have the final say.

    I would respect his wishes if he didn’t want the finder to reveal his special place, However if he wasn’t bothered either way, I am not sure what I would do?

    Once you give up the poems secret, I think the poem losses a big part of it’s mystery.

    To me that would be a difficult decision to make.

    Ronnie the Scot

    • Ronnie;

      You make a good point about letting Forrest make that final decision.

      Here is my dilemma. I am not wealthy. The value of the treasure could help multiple members of my family and a few friends – So, I would be tempted to sell the treasure.


      I would need to publish Forrest’s biography (Which could affect the sale price of the treasure since the treasure would then not be complete) provided I had Forrest’s permission to publish it.


      I would have to write a book about how I found it. How to write a book about finding it, without revealing where I found it. No one would buy a book that had an imaginary “find” site.

      Choices, choices, choices.

      Choices I hope I will have to make some day. – Smiles all – JDA

      • JDA,

        I’m not a wealthy person either, however I don’t think that not revealing the answers to the poems clues would have any effect on the value of the treasure itself.

        The problem that I would have is part of me would want to keep the location a secret.

        However the other part of me would be thinking that all the people that have been on the chase having spent a lot of time and money deserve to know the location.

        I just think that this decision would be difficult for me to make, but that’s just my own opinion.

        Ronnie the Scot

        • If Forrest agrees, I would be more than delighted to publish a book that has ALL of the answers. I would hope that the book/TV/movie deals would be worth as much as the TC and contents would be valued at. If they were, I would then like to see the treasure put on public display somewhere – a museum, Las Vegas—Who knows where? Maybe a NEW museum in Santa Fe??? Just dreamin’ JDA

          • JDA,

            I think the majority of ordinary people like to dream, that’s what keeps us all going.

            I agree with you if I was to find the T.C I would like to display it for a period of time in a museum I think it is only but right to let people see it.

            Especially to all those people that said the whole thing was a hoax.

            Ronnie the Scot

    • Interesting scenario. The fact that you figured it out would mean it’s not impossible and inspire others to finish it. I would love to write that book and see where it leads, but only if Forrest was okay with it.

    • Planning is all part of the chase, why not including in the aftermath?

      Dream a little dream – is what I say. And dream BIG!!

      Although the kind heart of an eclectic man is definitely there….”his spirit” and “hair”..(???)….*shrugs*…..DNA confirmation I guess? LOL

      ….anyhow…..you find it…You keep it. I think FF knows this.

      Including him in the aftermath, is what others should be planning. I am. Let him be part of your fun…..that is if you want to keep him included.

      Now, whether or not he chooses….well, that is his decision not yours.

      I think the person who finds it should plan accordingly, so that EVERYONE stays in the fun….not just the finder.

      But that is just my thinking of a dream I’ve thought about.

      My wife tells at me every time I mention this thing….hehehe

      Need a ticket to the big show?

      :o) I’m your man!

    • I think the finder is somewhat obligated to reveal where the chest was found. To keep it a secret would be unfair to fellow searchers and followers of the Chase. Mr Fenn has already said the finder is free to do what he wants.
      (Although I would still ask him first… 🙂 )

      “You can’t – I don’t want to make rules for people after the fact.”ff

      • Hi Randawg: even out of a sense of fairness to other searchers, I don’t think the finder is under any obligation to do anything other than tell Forrest the chest has been found (obviously with proof), and then Forrest will immediately relay that information to the searcher community via multiple media outlets. (I’m pretty sure Forrest has said as much in the past.)

        The searching community has no explicit right to know where the chest was hidden once it’s found — it’s enough to know that it has been. There are some very good reasons that even an anonymous searcher would want to keep that location secret — at least for a while. It’s sad to say, but there are too many 7-percenters out there that would claim they had the right location all along, and they were beat by mere weeks, days or even hours in retrieving the chest.

        To counter such claims, if I was the finder I might consider offering a modest reward to the second solver — with a reasonable time limit (e.g. end of the calendar year that the chest was found). Basically a put-up-or-shut-up challenge to anyone inclined to make such a bold claim. I contend that since the chest hasn’t been found in over 7 years, the odds of two people solving it in the same search season are very low.

        • Our plan is taking a similar sized look-a-alike-box to stash in its place. How much gets transferred from TC to the replacement depends on how we feel at the moment….

        • Dang Zap…..you are…like…..right there in my dream!!

          If I find this thing….I’m thinking somenumber like….25…..25 other seekers will have an opportunity to a piece of the treasure. Still working on that number and what fun and exviting things I can plan.

          But they too will have followed the same path I do.

          They too will “win.”

          I can only hope and dream.

    • I would release the full solve and the location- but keep my anonymity. My family and most ( but not all) of my friends think it is a hoax, are not interested in hearing about it; or don’t believe in the possibility that I could even solve it.Even though in the past I did a proved it thing before against a” you can do that or prove it” thing also.

      So I would share all about the solve and location but remain anonymous. I don’t mind the doubt.

      Monetizing it would be the easiest part, no matter what.

  21. The one thing that I probably would do regarding revealing Forrest special place.

    If I was fortunate enough to find the T.C if the T.C was sold at auction with its full contents I would possibly put the poem along with the answers and the subtle hints in a small sealed container.

    The container could not be opened, however the whole thing would be complete.

    Ronnie the Scot

    • Hi Ronnie–It’s nice to see someone coming all this way to fulfill a dream and finalize your own personal solve. I am just concerned about safety,If you have never hiked the rocky mountains before you must let someone know your general location-as I have lived in and hiked these Rockies most of my life I can say for a fact–They can be unforgiving.I wish you a successful journey..Safety comes first.Keep your head on a swivel ..

      • R-B,

        I am not going to lie, I am 55 years old and reasonable fit.

        I have never been outside of the U.K, this was not an easy decision for me, especially when you cannot talk to family or friends as they would think I am off my head.

        Can you imagine trying to tell someone that you are going to the Rockies too look for a treasure chest.

        It’s not going to be easy going on my own, however I will say that I will have my wits about me.

        I have been studying my solve for nearly a year and have only one place in mind.

        My solve does not take me into the remoteness of the Rockies, I would not go on the trip if that was the case.

        My solve keeps me close to a trail for most of the way.

        You only get one chance in life and I feel that my solve ticks all the boxes, however how many people have thought the same and came home empty handed?

        Nearer the time I will have to look for things like bear spray etc.

        Maybe some of you guy’s can tell me what I will need as this is all new to me.

        Ronnie the Scot

        • Bells, bearspray, and your wits about you.

          Save the beer for when you get back.

          Sandwich, compass, flashlight.


          • Tim Z,

            Thanks for the advice Tim, as for the poem it will be with me always, I know that poem word for word.

            I’m even learning the poem backwards

            Ronnie the Scot

        • Hi Ronnie-All that Tim says as well as a good sense of direction and time. Leave yourself enough daylight to get out. You should really e-mail a friend or relative as to your whereabouts once you get here.Ive seen battle hardened bush men and timber cruisers get turned around out there–They always make sure someone knows where they at least parked their truck and how long they will be out. When they aren’t back when they should be,the search crew at least has a starting point..I check this sight every now and then if you have any other questions I will try to help as well as plenty of other searchers out there seem to have a grasp of safety and survival

          • Ronnie

            I have some bear spray hidden in Montana… if that’s where you’re headed I’ll give you details…it’ll save you $50 or so.

          • That’s a better idea than paying the $45 for a can of bear spray every time. Write a poem for us to find your hidden bear spray!

          • R-B,

            Thanks for all the advice, it is much appreciated.

            I am allowing up to seven hours for the return trip.

            Starting at 9am and be back by no later than 4pm.

            It will take me two days to get there, I will have a further four days to try out my solve, before I return home.

            So hopefully the weather will be good on one of these day’s.

            I will not take chances with my life, it’s not worth it.

            Regarding letting someone know, I know that this needs to be done, but how I do it well that’s another story.

            When you don’t have believers believing in what you are doing, we’ll that makes it a bit more difficult.

            Ronnie the Scot

          • “The non- believers”

            I truly feel ya Ronnie.

            Convincing someone may be just as hard as to solving the darn thing.

            I know I am having troubles.

            I can only convince anyone….if I pick up the chest.
            I’m now firm with this notion.

            Be safe sir.

          • Ronnie;

            If you need a Point-of-contact – I will volunteer. email me when you arrive in US – I will give you a contact phone #. I know that telling a stranger where you are is dicey, but disappearing off of the face of the earth is dicier- Just a thought – JDA

          • Ronnie;

            Another thought. You could check in with the nearest Forrest Service office, the nearest police or fire station – give them GPS coordinates of your start and logical fartherst-in location of your “hike” – No other info need be provided – JDA

        • Ronnie,

          Good luck. I’m thinking most importantly, Forrest has said on more than one occasion to bring a GPS. I believe that is for more than one reason but that’s only my opinion.

          Bring an extra battery or two along with it and a map with GPS coordinates already marked.

          And don’t forget a poncho and matches that you have bagged to keep them dry.

          Happy hunting

          • Very good point in the poncho and WATERPROOF matches.

            I haven’t left home for the wild without them

            Magnesium staters are also a great idea for starting fires.

            Be safe.

          • Kevin P,

            Thanks Kevin, I probably want have GPS.

            I have studied the route carefully and it seems to be straightforward, however I may change my mind nearer the time.

            Ronnie the Scot

  22. I would like to interrupt the previously scheduled program to bring you this….
    and speaking of odds n ends….
    Who here likes a good ending?
    I do

    Eureka, moments are fun!
    Is anybody else here having fun?
    You may now return to your previously scheduled program…..
    Clearly Clueless

  23. Word Play, New and Old, I thought it could be, something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue.

      • Hi JDA, I’m not saying it’s a clue. I do think it’s curious. The only thing I thought might relate to the rhyme, was Mr. Fenn’s comment in TTOTC, about having to borrow the money, to buy the painting of the dead dog on the bridge. And in other places in TTOTC, he uses the words, blue and cobalt.

  24. I hope that you guy’s don’t mind me asking this question?

    Does any of you guy’s have the none believers with family or friends regarding the chase?

    Saying your wasting your time, give it up and move on.

    Saying you have more chance of winning the lottery than finding that T.C

    Saying your wasting your money and putting hundreds if not thousands of miles on your vehicle for what, to find something that does not exist.

    Saying your chasing a dream that doesn’t exist.

    Having arguments with your wife or husband.

    Walking out on your partner or even thinking about divorce over this thing called the chase,
    we’ll I might have went over the top with the bit about divorce.

    As far as I am concerned if you believe in your solve and the chase, forget everyone else and chase your dream.

    Someone will find that T.C sooner or later, I truly believe that.

    Chase your dream guy’s whatever it is, and don’t be put off by anyone, if you believe in what your doing, then that’s all that matters.

    We all get one chance in life, if your dreams come true then good luck to you all, and if you’re dreams don’t come true, then you have done your best.

    No one can take that away from you, so good luck to you all in the chase or whatever you dream.

    Ronnie the Scot

    • Ronnie;

      My wife supports me, but not with a lot of enthusiasm. Three members of my search team are as addicted as I am. The husband of one of the searchers feels much as your wife does, so, most times we leave him at home.

      Both of my kids who live 2,000 miles away – wish me luck, and have searched with me only once. So, for the most part I am supported – Y E A ! ! ! Sorry you do not have this kind of support – JDA

    • Ronnie…
      I see yet another obsessed searcher in the making.

      It one thing to get the chase bug… It’s another to die out because you got bit.
      I’m curious if you have attempted anything like this before?

      It’s a challenge, meant to reconnect with nature, exploring, the love of the wild and it’s discoveries… Would you be in it if the prize was a Tupperware container full of marbles?

      If you’re going to dive off the deep end… Make sure you can swim…

    • I’m a single 47 year old lady from Kentucky, who went on my first search without telling anyone.
      After, I got there, I did check in with some family occasionally. I’m sure they thought I was crazy….
      I had a blast seeing and hiking, New Mexico.
      I did get a little upset, because I really thought I would find the treasure.
      Second trip, my parents went along, we had an amazing vacation visiting four states.
      Yes, we kind of searched for the treasure, but it was more of a family vacation which has great memories. My parents are getting older and we loved the time together.
      My Mom was very helpful, she tried to set me up with a handsome Game Warden. I should take her on more trips with me….
      At one point, my Father politely told me my solve was too hard to understand, but there he was hiking through the woods and grinning and having a grand adventure with me.
      He was right though…..
      So, I came home and shredded all my research and started over.
      This fall, third quick trip by myself.
      My next trip, I am hoping my sister can go or one of my boys.
      I do hope you get out there….you should go for it.
      Try to get your wife to go, I think she would enjoy the adventure.

      • Hey CC, where in NM did you search?

        Empty search notwithstanding, you know you did exactly what FF hoped people would do.

        I’ve hiked the Blues of TN and VA, but am always drawn back to the mountains of NM.

        That drive from KY to NM must have sucked though. I can barely tolerate it from Dallas.

    • I’ve only brought this stuff up very lightly to people around me, and when I see the looks on their faces, I stop and talk about something else.
      But I go on other kinds of adventures ALL the time, so from their perspective of seeing me take off and be gone for many days and come back with cool pictures of new places won’t be anything out of the ordinary.
      Maybe half, or more, of my adventures are alone. So it isn’t scary for me. I have been venturing to Yellowstone alone since the 80s. My last was in October. My trips alone have their own advantages, too. So hopefully my girlfriend will be cool if I do another extra or 2 alone this next year so I can add in some of The Chase while I am there.

    • WOW Ronnie.

      You really have guts, if those questions pop up for your trip.

      Nothing like that or anything you are putting out here I have to deal with.

      My wife and I know this is me living out a dream I have had, she supports me. I think she knows how lucky I am and this could be the big one…..LOL.

      It is the speculation I can sense, which is noted and accepted….

      Oh….we both will go again, she supports my dream. I asked her to say three words to me if I succeed this time.

      “You did it.”

      Then we drive home and roll in gold for a week or so. Maybe do shots on her naked body on top off the gold.

      Okay…I too went over the top.

      Cheers and be safe on your trip.

    • Ronnie,
      Could this have something to do with differences in cultures between the US and UK? Here we have the archetype of the intrepid pioneer striking off for new territory built into our cultural ethos, even though that era passed a long time ago. This might help make it easier for us in that we aren’t going completely outside of cultural norms here, we’re just being eccentric. Yes, I get eye rolls and polite responses that can only be translated as “you’re nuts”. But friends and family mainly say have fun and stay safe (no spouse, so I don’t have to navigate that hurdle). I haven’t found anyone who has stated an interest in joining me though.

      I’m sorry to hear that you’re running into so much resistance. Wish I had better advice for your situation.


    • My family believes in my ability to solve and figure things out. I have proven some pretty amazing investigative stuff. They had doubted me on some things and even questioned my sanity, only to be surprised once proof is provided and they were shocked. With this treasure FF hunt/poem , when I showed them they definitely rolled their eyes and were not interested. Some are now very interested once I showed them my stuff. But in the main, they just smile and say, ” well good luck “. I don’t mention it anymore. Most can’t think past their 3 hours of TV programming. Lol. I read and research in my spare time and I don’t watch much TV for the past 25 years.

      I intend to prove my sanity, once again lol.

      • I’m right there with ya Alt.

        My wife and I have agreed that I don’t mention it until May again.

        I agreed that I will not mention it, and without doing so, will make all the plans and preparations I can do and then we both finalize the trip…..odds and ends….food needs…lodging…..I go over the plan…..you know.

        I also made it clear that I cannot stop my excitement. She laughed.

        I also said that if she asks me about it, I will talk about it, but only then. I’m not supposed to mention certain words, so I have decided to use the word “It” for my speaking times. She knows what Im talking about, but not really talking about.


        She’ll get over it…….

        Funny stuff…I may have to start a comedy act with her!!!

    • Ronnie,

      That was my best friends name when I was growing up by the way. To answer your question, my wife “tolerates” my “enthusiasm” but stops short of asking questions. I’m just too close to this thing and she’s not. That’s okay with me.

      My daughter is very onboard though she has a job to worry about being a care-giver for children who’s parents are in the military. But she is enthusiastic and supports me in my quest. My son. He’s into drones and shows little interest, which will escalate exponentially if I were to find it.

      Mr brother is very supportive and has assisted me in the capacity of “eyes and ears” in my search area, but his big interest is genealogy and is trying very hard to finish our family tree and understandably spends his energy in that effort.

      So the bottom line, it’s kind of mixed at my end but they all understand this “hobby” of mine keeps my mind working that can only be a good thing at my age.

      Hope this helps……… pinatubocharlie

    • Only three folks in my family know we are searching and one of them is developing dementia. Everyone knows we travel and hike and see cool places, none the wiser about one of our motives.

    • Ronnie,

      Everyone I know thinks it would be cool to know “the guy who found the chest” :o)

      Your words are heartfelt and you deserve your chance. Anyone who REALLY cares about you will support your dreams.

      It takes courage to do what’s uncomfortable, ignore doubters, and take that leap of faith. You have plenty of courage my friend and I’d be honored to shake your hand one day.

      For many of us, the Rocky Mountains have been our playground for decades and you’ll receive great advice from the searchers here on this forum.

      We’ll be here for you when you arrive.

      • I concur Sourdough.

        I went into this with very little knowledge on the wild. So I think there are many searchers way more experienced at this than I ever could be.

        It is a challenge we all must face one day. Can you tackle your fears?

        It’s tough to fight with yourself. EIther you are in or out. It was for me.

        Good post….and yep….I used what they were saying, because I was inexperienced….it helps and got me back home with no horror stories…thankfully!! :o)

  25. Earlier, in the chase there was a lot of interest in crowd sourcing . I think were still doing it, and getting better at it.

  26. Ronnie the Scot, you have a brave heart to follow your dream. If the keyword is contentment, it can be a win-win situation, regardless if a TC is found. It reminds me of that old Mastercard commercial – finding a treasure chest, $1-6 million. Adventure in a beautiful and serene area, priceless.

    I’d be on the spouse’s side if someone went on a search while neglecting other responsibilities, financial or otherwise, or if they were reckless and taking unnecessary chances (what everyone else said, just follow the Safety First commonsense guidelines). Otherwise, even if I had my doubts about finding a treasure chest, I hope I would be supportive of something that means so much to someone and maybe even join in on the trip, if possible, and simply enjoy the journey.

    I don’t have a spouse to answer to, but my situation is such that it would be, not impossible, but so difficult to put BOTG til I retire in another six years that it just wouldn’t be much fun to go until then.

    In the meantime, I’ve brought up the Chase to two relatives, who both had their polite doubts. I’m toying with the idea of offering my solve to a nephew who lives not too far from my hunch area and might be open to taking his young family on a nice vacation regardless. Maybe even invite a couple of great-nephews going to a nearby college as well. They too might listen politely but think of me as that crazy aunt, but nothing ventured, nothing gained. I’d rather be thought of as crazy but interesting than sane and boring !

    Best o’luck, Ronnie —
    SeeN, with a bit of Scotch in me, so to speak

    • Being reckless in life is foolishness – my standard.

      Trust me, I’ve have had plenty of vacations cancelled over my life….because I had to put family first. I moved on.

      You have nothing in life, if you have not a family.

  27. Dal…I know this is off topic for the chase…so I thought I could sneak in a quick question.

    Do you know if FF is a Led Zeppelin fan?


    LOLOL You knew I was gonna ask eventually!!

    Cheers and thanks for hosting us all.

  28. Here’s somethng I was just thinking…..spur of the moment brainstorming you can call it.

    Something to think about on how to solve the poem.

    Imagine your childhood home address and street. You know it, the world does not.

    Next Try to formulate a smaller – much more condensed version than the poem – of a path that would take someone from your High School you attended to your home.
    – use features in your hometown as the “indicators” to your clues…hints. Each hint leads to a clue, which leads to a place which will eventually give you further data you can research to decide on what school you need to begin from.

    Tell you what….let’s openly try it. Throughout my posts – recently – I have listed some personal information and other related dated about my childhood.

    You don’t know nothing about me….except some guy on a blog.

    But….I think I can give you enough information by just listening to what I have said to figure it out what my point is. There is one detail you won’t be able to figure. The final location….unless it is provided, right?

    Well, let’s just start with how close you can get……shall we play a game?
    – a thinking game.

    – I’m from Michigan, Detroit area.
    – never went anywhere when I was a kid – meaning camping, adventures
    – a creek is nearby I’ve played Tarzan in, swinging from side to side
    – I had to walk about 1 to 1.25 miles each way to school
    – i lived in a small 980 sq ft home
    – 1/4 acre lot with no garage

    Lots of details, huh? could you be exact…..not yet…you need to do research.

    You would make lists and/or notes and begin to eliminate things as you go along in your hunt. Sounds familiar, huh?

    You can’t do it…..even after providing you with true facts. You need more.

    You can guess. You can guess and then try BOTG, like many.

    But truly…..where does it get you? Empty-handed again.

    Deep thinking is very much a must have essential for this puzzle to be solved.

    I have given a very 5 minute example of where our minds can go to, if we really actuallly can dissect the poem.

    What are we missing then if it still lies in waiting?

    • Tim- “What are we missing then if it still lies in waiting?

      I dunno if I know what is missing but I have an idea of something that has occurred to me about the poem and location. Being as this is just my opinion. I think that the TC location is a place that someone showed/brought FF to originally- a person not ever mentioned by FF. They may or may not still be around anymore. It’s just a hunch that I have reading the poem-it’s what I read of the poem. IMO .

      • ….uhm….and my thought?

        Do you have anything on my example?

        Thoughts? Errors in thinking? Could be better if you did……..???

        Could be a hunk of junk?

        Anything good or bad is always welcome.

        Thanks for responding.

        • Tim. I undestand the thesis of thinking you exemplify but it’s a ‘to each their own’ kind of thing/thinking. I don’t really have an inclination to refute those kind if ideas. This poem is unique unto itself and is of the geographics of nature mixed in with human architecture- it’s rather different a concept than your example. It’s poetry also, so the storytelling is heavy in allegory, figurative and metaphor. All are perceptions collectively familiar but are given their meanings by an individual point of view. I find its best to just get to know FF by all of his communications he has available. Just need to understand the history of the storyteller, in order to understand him now-about this/his story.

          In my opinion.

        • (ZoRo),
          I found it quite a noble exercise. Albeit…a little prickly to the senses!

          • Thanks mia…..prickly? How so?

            I really do think brainstorming ideas is the way to solve this thing.

            Prickly? Too harsh? good thing as in goosebumps? What do you mean?

            My example, like someone else said, was very crude. But I think in its condensed form, shows a very good similarity to how the poem reads.

            I know just walking down the street, one will not be able to understand what the clues mean. I’ve had two trips empty handed. I can see how disappointing something can be.

            Again, as impressionistic I tried to be…illustrating the simplicity of a simple walk of only 1.25 miles……is nothing compared to putting this imagery into a much grander scale, like the poem.

            I would better guess…..and being a city boy for most of my life – and never being to NYC…..it is probably easier to navigate those streets and high end boutiques, than it will be within the wilderness involved with this poem.

            It’s tough. Sometimes I think I need to just quit and put a dunce cone on my head. Seriously, it is quite good. This puzzle really makes someone think…..think on how much they really do not know.


            Good luck Mia…..be safe in your searching and thanks for responding.

          • Good morning Tim,
            Just a communication breakdown. 🙂 Addressing from whence I came led me down the tracks to a celebratory day prior to hanging out with F in the Brambles. Pay me no mind, I’m a bit of a rube.
            Thanks for the journey; don’t stop BELIEVIN’!

    • Okay Tim, I know you are going with a hypothetical, so I’ll treat it as one. I can see what you are trying to do, but, what I think you are missing is that with the chase, f does not give the answers to some of his clues.
      In regards to Brown, hoB, wwh, and blaze, there is nowhere in the poem or book where f gives the correct answer for these. People are trying to solve for these things but f has never given us information to solve them. We know wwwh and the blaze are clues, so pretty much cannot solve all the clues. To solve these clues takes BOTG. They will present themselves when you take your path to the chest. If you are in the right area. How are we going to solve for these key things when f doesn’t give any info on how to solve for them?
      This is the one thing people don’t get, and this is where your example crudely tries to explain. We just don’t have enough info. F just has not given the info out to solve for these things.
      To solve the poem is not the same as solving the clues correctly. You cannot know you have the correct clues until you have the chest. Plus, you just don’t have the info to solve for some of the clues.
      Solving the poem gives you an “X” on a map, right? You basically go to the “X” and on your way, the clues will be present. You will know this when you get the chest, then you will know the clues he is referring to. This is not to say that someone cannot have a solve of all the clues right now. If a searcher has the correct spot, has put BOTG, and knows the path, that searcher very well may have the clues solved. Only getting the chest can prove that.
      So, if you are a searcher, no BOTG, solving the poem from home, you may get a solve of the poem, but you will not be able to confirm that you have the clues solved. We can’t solve something if we don’t have the info needed to solve for it, right?
      Solving the poem will give your path, and, as you follow this path, if you are correct, you will follow the clues. Does that make sense? Hope so, because if you are tackling this puzzle by solving the clues, it cannot be done.
      So Tim, at the core of you example, it would be a correct thought. We don’t have all the info, that is what we are missing. The sooner everyone realizes this concept, the sooner they will get to solving the poem, and the closer they will be. If a searcher tells you that he/she has solved for these things/clues by just using the book (poem), with no BOTG, they are just flat wrong.
      f says to follow the clues to the chest, solve the clues to get the chest, there is no deception in these comments. If you have the correct solve, it is exactly what you will do. It’s just before you start the trek, you don’t know if you have the right clues because you haven’t seen them yet. So this is what most are missing, the concept that we don’t have enough info to solve some of the clues, because f has not supplied that info. As crudely as you example is done, it (very crudely) is a good example. (Even if you don’t know it,:))

      • Charlie,
        You’re basically saying that the poem is only usable for a complete solve by matching clues on site… following in the field the correct path from each point reference, and the information to do this, is not fully known in the poem itself… as you say; ‘..the concept that we don’t have enough info to solve some of the clues, because f has not supplied that info.’

        I get what your saying… the need to be on site and see what is there, possibly something else that is needing to be seen, line of thinking. And I agree to a point, but not the idea fenn hasn’t ‘supplied that info’ I think, and i’m not saying this is what you’re doing… I think this is an excuse in the thought, you [us] just can’t see how fenn put it all together, on paper.
        When I say ‘excuse’ it’s not about lack of trying, and more to lack of understanding, and then convince ourselves we don’t have all the information… or even make things up to force a solve to work in our favor and our locations.

        Just deciphering a clue reference, [ note; in my mind that is only what the clue ‘refers to’ ], knowing its location, finding it on a map, may not be enough for a complete solution. Not because something is missing from the poem ~ because, we might need to utilize the clues [ at least some ] in a manner that can only be down on site. that’s not missing information.. it’s simple using the information provided.

        One hypothetical that has been talked about is line of sight. For example; the blaze and fenn’s comment; if you can find the blaze the answer to how far the chest is from the blaze will be obvious. Well, IF the blaze is a rock with a hole in it and we need to peer into the hole… we not see a relatively small spot to check out. The idea is, we should know we need to use the clue [ at least some ] and know what the process might be, beforehand.

        IF.. we don’t understand the full process… we’re just going to walk by each of clues not knowing [ even if they are deciphered by ‘their references’ ].
        So I agree that we might not be able to solve this completely at home and it will take field work to do so, But I don’t agree fenn left anything out.

        The above is an example of how the line Tarry Scant with Marvel Gaze might imply… line of sight. a small hole on a rock [ just as an example ] and take a moment to gaze through it.
        In finding this “Blaze” [ rock ] the other clues [ at least some ] can be done in the same idea, of using the clues points.
        A simple triangulation of these clues point [ example only ] wwh, hoB, HL and WH… You just draw a line between the points and see where they meet on a map… or just gaze [ observe ] this from each point [ in the field ] and find the blaze.
        * if you have been wise-?- and found… the method of doing this?

        I think the only problem many are having is not so much what the clues refer to [ lol, although I am ] But, what might be needed to have the blaze “Found” [to discover it ] is not the lack of information, but the lack of thinking.

        Is this line of thinking the reason fenn couldn’t answer Becky question… is the blaze in the poem or only in the field? In this theory… it would be a difficult question to answer, without giving away the answers. I don’t think this is a stomping the dotted line treasure hunt… I might say it’s more like a survey approach. The clues references can be solved at home, “All of them in theory, but not in practice”

        Food for thought…….

        • I agree with you Seeker. I know that there is one particular clue that I must find (like the hole in the rock idea) that will point me to an exact location, and from there, I SHOULD be able to find what is needed – JMO JDA

        • Thanks for the assist Seeker….you apparently understood my point.

          I get ya though. It’s a tough one.

          Good luck to you.

        • Hey Seeker, it’s kind of funny/ironic. Tim came out with his little scenario and I was looking at some ATF’s. Forgot all about this one:
          You have said to read the poem and read TTOTC to help solve for the 9 clues. We all know there are many options to choose from regarding, Brown, hoB, wwh, and blaze hinted at in the book. My question is, “In the book, do you also, in a more subtle way, tell which is the correct answer to one or all of the above?” ~BW

          No I don’t madam, sorry. f

          It’s such an innocent comment, but when you think about it, seems like we can’t solve all the clues. Some sure, all, questionable.
          I’m sure some are going to come out with their interpretation of it, whatever, the poem is in the book, and he’s basically saying he does not give the correct answer to those specific things. Not even one. So, I look at Tim’s crudely thought of scenario,:), and it can be perceived that it is not a bad example. We don’t have all the info needed.
          You were the perfect person to comment, I know you will see the other angles into f’s comments, and approach with common sense. So, is this ATF comment pretty strong? I think so. It can ruin many solves. If someone is going on the premise that they have solved wwwh, the blaze, hoB, with the info f has given, it would make that impossible, and, would basically put that solve in the “wrong” category.
          I have to say again, this wouldn’t be in effect if that searcher has had BOTG, and been to the spot’s area. The correct spot. That searcher could then know the clues, and could cross reference them with the poem. But, that searcher would have to be in the correct area.
          You have to think that maybe when he said something on the lines of it will take a couple trips, this is the reason. Like you said, we could just walk by some clues if we didn’t know them for sure, but the next time out, we may notice what he is referring to.
          It makes me think, this is suppose to be impossible. To me that means it is almost beyond the scope of being solved. Along that line of thinking, could it be possible that we cannot solve all the clues? Could it be when we go search we can walk right on by some clues? Are the clues, or some of them, impossible to see on one’s first trek? In the realm of “almost impossible”, it’s a pretty big ‘what if”.
          Lastly, is this the reason he said to solve the poem and put an “X” on a map? Putting the “X” on a map will show the searcher the path to take, some of the clues will present themselves on this path. It very well could be that you cannot solve all the clues. That jives with the reasoning that we don’t know what a clue is anyway. Just know of the two. It does leave food for thought, and it does bring forth the knowledge that if you are solving all the clues from the info supplied, or just trying to solve the clues, then you have to see that you’re digging a very deep “rabbit hole”.
          Tim, I’ve been thinking that it just may be true that we cannot solve all the clues with the info we have for awhile. But your little scenario and the point you are making is very valid. It raises this very question, and it looks like one of the ATF’s answers that. Our problem, we are reading the poem incorrectly. (we meaning most). We are missing some info. You know what is coming next, “well how do we leave in confidence”?
          I still think that is possible. It’s what will really give one confidence if that searchers’ solve is in the correct area. I think a lot of things can tell you that.
          The question know is, so what info is f supplying that will result in having all the answers?

          • Charlie, a quick response to that comment… While the poem is in the book… The question asked about answering the clues… I don’t think there are answered… But more guides to figure out a reference. The answers might need all the clues and not just a clue reference of each clue.

            BUT, the question mentioned brown and hoB as separate…. Lol.. Fenn does enjoy answering a question as it is present.

            So you have to ask… Did he take advantage of a question, and answered it honestly… The book doesn’t answer brown alone.

            Lol there are many ways we can twist it, and I have attempted that to the point of snapping in two… But we need to be careful not to let the twisting control and outcome just because it works for hopeful solve.

          • Thanks for the commentary charlie.

            Yeah….we just dont know.

            For my example, as you picked up on, is all about how detailed information needs to be found before you can continue. Reading the poem in a certain way, may hold that clue.

            IMO – it is with BOTG. I’ve always thought this is the trial and error embedded within the treasure hunt.

            Why? Having read, seen, watched and admired many of a treasure hunting stories in the past, they all seem to coincide with trial and error.

            The Money Pit.
            Looking for Columbus’ fleet
            Any Spanish galleon in the gulf of MX or in the Carribean.

            Anywhere there is a hunt happening, we always see action with looking and trying out their “solve”….many come back empty handed…..review the findings and reresearch the path again.

            Isn’t this treasure hunting 101?


            Good luck to you.

          • …an afterthought charlie……

            “we can’t solve all the clues”

            – add together what you just stated and my theory of combinatronics embedded into the poem.

            You could very well be right. It would take someone with an analytical mind, yet also would require much more. FF said “and a little imagination”.

            Analyitical and imagination……*exaggerates head blowing up*…..WOW….that would mean to me – “many, many years”…..I may have to agree with the 100 yrs and still nothing.

            Very carefully thought out.


      • Hi and good morning charlie.

        Hey – thanks for reading my post. It was just that. A hypothetical to express on how to read the poem. Maybe we are all reading it wrong?

        I don’t know. It was something I thought was pretty interesting.

        And yes, you are right – we are missing something. Where to begin.

        I was also seeing if others would be able to see my point too. We don’t know whre to begin.

        So. lets dig deeper into that point. Why not? If FF used a similar method to design his poem…..AND he says everything we need is in the poem…..how deep do we have to go to determine where to begin?

        For me – it was just fun seeing how my childhood home and the street and region has totally changed – roads improved – way improved!, the new owners added a garage, paved the driveway, trimmed the fence lilac bushes and pretty much changed it completely.

        I wonder what the inside looks like? That wouuld be a cool trip down memory lane.

        Again….thanks for reading my post. I hope it does something for you.

        Good luck and be safe in your searching.

        • Wait up Tim, you don’t get to leave that easy. The possible implications are huge on what you are saying. It’s actually one of the best posts for awhile. I know you were just throwing a thought out there, but it is something every searcher needs to address.
          It is pretty fun to go down memory lane and see where one has grown up and all the changes. In retrospect, I wonder how the chase will change. I can see from 2011 until now and there have been many changes in the thought process. This may bring in a new process of what it takes to understand the almost impossible.

          • charlie,
            That ATF is very interesting. I see a loophole in the question though.

            “In the book, do you also, in a more subtle way, tell which is the correct answer to one or all of the above?” ~BW

            That “in a more subtle way” does leave an out. I’m assuming that it means that the information provided in the poem is considered less subtle, and that there isn’t a definite hint for blaze, HoB, etc in the rest of the book. Hence bolstering the poem purist’s argument. But it could also be read that there is less subtle information in the book that does give those answers. Just food for thought.

          • charlie.

            Did you attempt my game?

            Did you come to a an area?

            It’s hard. Just like the poem. limited info….but if read as if you are Fenn, you may have a chance to figure it out.

            I’ll even give one more clue to my scenario.

            – the location now has a garage on the property, and some nice shrubbery.

            You may get closer…..but how close?

            A: you still have no idea on where to begin.

            P.S. After seeing my old house….not bad….small…but not bad, if you consider it has a basement. 40 years later….I’d buy it if it was available…just for nostaglia sake……LOL

            Good luck and thanks for your viewpoint.

            Soo far – one good/one bad…..*shrugs*…..maybe it will help someone.

          • Yes, I agree with you guys. Is he saying subtle hints can’t be answered for those things, or those things cannot be answered, or is subtle to mean something in regards to the answers. It’s another multi interpreted comment that is best to see all angles and be aware I guess.
            I have a solve one way. It takes reading the ATF’s all a certain way, or to interpret them a certain way. The work comes in when you can see this and also know the other interpretations. We all can read, we know what he is saying at face value, it’s why I use the E. Sloane example. F would tell us the punch line, he knows the different ways that some of his comments can be taken, but he doesn’t, and like you guys point out, it’s like he revels in it. Dodges questions like he’s playing dodge ball. It is almost boarder line being deceptive. If you know what the masses would interpret a comment, and the answer is something different then what most everyone would think, is that being deceptive?
            You are right Seeker, we can’t let the ATF’s twist so much as to force a solve, but we do have to realize that when all said and done, f does have his “plausible deniability” cemented in all our thoughts.
            When I put up the post to answer Tim, I realized the possibilities that was being said. There are outs, agreed. I was waiting for the comments, ‘no wrong’, twisting the comment, must be read a certain way, kind of answers. Only because I know most are so hell-bent on their one and only solve, that this ATF must not say what it says. And then hear why I must be wrong and why they are still safe. But no, you guys hit the point with just realization that who really knows. Many ways to interpret, many angles, all must be addressed. Those are the types, IMO, that will get close or even find the chest. Like f said, we need to adjust. We don’t come anywhere close on how we see the poem, but the big picture, lol, so very similar. Thanks for the replies fellas…

      • Charlie, you said to Tim…

        …What I think you are missing is that with the chase, f does not give the answers to some of his clues.
        In regards to Brown, hoB, wwh, and blaze, there is nowhere in the poem or book where f gives the correct answer for these. People are trying to solve for these things but f has never given us information to solve them.

        Some possibilities arise to help ponder your idea. It’s possible all one will need to find the tc is the correct information to one of the things you listed (Brown, hoB, wwh, and blaze).
        I’d think if information was provided in the poem to correctly identify wwwh then the rest of them are good to go.

        I think f did properly give us enough information in the poem to identify the correct wwwh. I think hoB is a proper name for one of the clue solutions if you figure it out correctly. I think hoB refers to the correct wwwh. This is an example of how f could possibly give us enough information in the poem to get one to the end successfully.

        • FundamentalDesign.

          You wrote:
          “It’s possible all one will need to find the tc is the correct information to one of the things you listed (Brown, hoB, wwh, and blaze).
          I’d think if information was provided in the poem to correctly identify wwwh then the rest of them are good to go.”

          That is how I stopped being on the fence on my research. I went ahead and literally realized I needed to get off of it if I was to compete with much smarter people than me.

          You know something else, Someone was just asking about “Humpty”….I never seen anything on the blogs, but it does nudge me a bit.

          If we take the nursery rhyme and consider that Humpty fell and couldn’t be put back together – metaphorical and with some imagination, you can literally put that into a persective of deep thinking a complex situation. He failed and couldn’t be put back together again.

          Is there a second verse to Humpty? Uhm…if there is….I for sure never heard of one. The moral is not to fall, but be assertive in your thinking, so you don’t fall.

          IMO – if you can figure out one clue, maybe, just maybe it is something good to build on. Yeah, yeah….”Guessing”……okay…I give in. It is guessing to an extent…..technically.

          Did those Floridians guess when they found a hoard of Spanish gold coins in 10 ft of water offshore the beach they were playing at? No guessing there.

          Did the History Channel’s “Cooper’s Treasure” – Gordon Miklos give up, just because he missed his target? Nope. Although he guessed at times.

          Guessing isn’t so bad. It can pay off if you have the right guess. I’ve seen it work. I.E. calling into a Radio show’s Free contest.

          *in his best radio host voice*
          Now is the time listeners!! That’s right!! Now is the time to be the 10th call and we’ll send you to MONSTER JAM 2018 at Tingley Colliseum!!



          So people randomly call in. Eventually Number 10 is picked up…..and on the other end….”You are caller number 10. Congratulations!!!…etc…etc……”

          Pure unadulterated luck that one person out of about 20,000 (could be even less because of the ratings the radio show has) – BUT that one person made the attempt and they won.

          *rolls the dice again* Lady Luck is a trickster……some of us have her willingly and without effort….then others are in the world trying to keep her alter-ego at bay. Outlooks on life are made by us. We make the good and the bad…if we are not thinking our actions out.

          There are three things we can do on a guess:
          – we can get nudged – and fall like ‘Humpty’ – getting up can be hard – even with help.

          – but we can also balance ourselves and stay on the fence – with no harm coming at all – for now and forever if one chooses. The onlookers are no help – they see what they want. You can see it all from where you are….why not just sit and be happy. This attitude will not win. It pacifies – and it grows. IMO – this is failure just waiting to happen.

          …and the third. You can jump off the fence on your own, knowing the perils that could break you, but facing that fear could pay off. You are now optimistic.

          Eventualy, a guess can lead to a possible clue, and then to a possible solution and then to a possible general solve and then to a possible “accurate solve”.

          This game is not played on a fence….it is played in Forrest’s world. He made it. He chose the rules we are to use.

          It is your choice, huh? Am I fit enough to play his mind boggle. Sure. Definitely not the type I’m probably up against, but who really is worried about physicalities…..I came to play his game and doesn’t include sitting on a fence.

          Sheez…and I thought that being from the suburbs was bad enough, but eventually I got to play beach volleyball in SD, the USN to keep me active enough. I’m in ready, willing, and though still scared in some ways……the fence sitting isn’t my forte….doing……taking a risk or two is more my style.

          I’m with Ronnie. Well not with Ronnie per se….but in his motivation…..why not?…..we only live once.

          Good luck – end of commentary.

    • Tim instead of detroit, perhaps begin where the fist stands.
      Oh or begin where rotten eggs end.
      Vague but two descriptive Detroit items.

    • Tim:

      I think an excellent post.

      I’ve written this before – If you do not have the knowledge he (ff) has about any particular field, then imagination and creative study will be required outside his (ff’s ttotc) book.

      I stand by my statement.

      Of course, many might and probably will disagree with this statement. No problem.

      But ff’s ttotc led me to research outside ttotc. In my mind, that’s where some clues with answers can be found (yes, I can already hear the criticism :).

      • Thanks Rob….brainstorming seems to come easy for me for some reason, and that was how I read the poem.

        No ones knows where I live…..”no one knows where the treasure is”….

        I can give out clues…..”the poem”….

        I can imagine all the ways it can be read……”still unsolved by the seekers”…..

        There has to be some key in reading it. I’ve always imagined my “Sunday drive through the mountains”.

        Why? It seems relative to me that……to a guy who already knows the outdoors, cruising along in his car through the mountains, is seeing the path he is taking. It is quite uncanny how I thought of that.

        Picture yourself in a car in the mountains…..now if you already have memorized the poem……drive………through the mountains……visualizing your surrooundings.

        Okay, I understand that not everyone will have the same “surrooundings”…but I know you have somewhere in that mind of yours, some sort of ‘scenary’ you have scene in the past….once you start imagining the trip the background in your mind will become “visually scenic” – as in the forest or somewhere with trees.

        Keep driving…..do you see the similarities being expressed in your mind?

        It is quite visual to me…..uncannyingly wierd in ways…..”supernatural”….OOOOOOOOO!!!!

        Now I’ll share in your ridicule.

        PS. Did you play NFL football – QB? Your name is the same as a previous player.

        Cool…we have celebrities joining in the fun!

        JK!! Confirmation bias….or just random coincidence…….who knows!!

        .LOL….no disrespect sir…..I think you played very well….just in case you are.


        Good luck in the chase!

        • I imagined i was visiting Ireland in ignorance of their drunk driving laws. I was doing fine until a cop pulled me over and asked why I had a bottle of stout in my hand. I told him I was on my way to a play a round of golf, but I was lost. He demanded to know why I had been darting from side to side of the road. I said, “Offisher, I was just practicing my swing.” He replied, “Well that’s OK then. For a moment there I was afraid you were going to spill it”

          Believe it or not, Tim, that exercise helped me. Funny how we resist the obvious, simply because it makes us uncomfortable.

          Which reminds me. Thanks for the advice, Ronnie. You’re absolutely right: if you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. I’ll remember that for when my wife wants me to do the dishes.

          • Btw, Ronnie, you reminded me that I hadn’t been on Facebook in a good while. I think FB is a pernicious, insidious timewaster, and today I almost barfed when I saw what was on it. But I must admit it’s also a useful tool for seeing what’s what and what ain’t what. In the end I had a hearty laugh, and bought tickets for that holiday resort in Sherwood Forest. Yay! Robin Hood and his even merrier men! 🙂

            Good luck with your adventure!!

  29. Dal – question for you.

    Would you start a thread on “Confirmation Bias”?

    If it is a predomnant topic, does it deserve its own?

    Is my question just confirmation bias for asking?


    Thanks for reading my post.

  30. Any opinions on the preface in FFs book that describes him parking his car at the CO science museum, does anyone esle find that to be important information? Any links on that topic is appreciated.

    • Only important as a hint (confirmation that at least 1 clue
      has been correctly solved), y’all. And the same goes for
      the Arizona thing. But not to worry too much, because
      worry may invite the return of something that is not Sabata. IMO.

    • It does seem important since the word clue was used to describe it and clues help lead us to the chest right? I just don’t know what that clue means.

    • I’m a bit flummoxed…In this foreword there is discussion of the inclusion of an IOU in the chest to provoke the finder to redeem it, therefore providing evidence of it’s discovery and recovery. If this provision is indeed accurate, what happens if the treasure is not found prior to the demise of Mr. Fenn?

      • I don’t think you can count on an IOU being in the chest. From EIS Radio (8/8/2013):

        “There’s something that I don’t know whether it’s in the treasure chest or not. It was a crazy idea. But, going about the question you asked earlier, ‘Did I want to know if someone had found the treasure chest?’ So I said, ‘Yeah, I do.’ One reason is so people won’t be spending all their money looking for something that isn’t there anymore. So I put an IOU – I wrote out an IOU. ‘Take this IOU to my bank in Santa Fe, and collect $100,000.’ I figured for $100,000, the guy that found the treasure chest would not want to keep it secret anymore. So now the IRS is getting in the act and everybody knows. But if someone finds it 1,000 years from now, my bank won’t be there, and there won’t be any money in the account even if they did, so, I think I took that IOU out. But I don’t remember whether I did or not. It’s in there in spirit.”

      • Over 40,

        I have a flawed theory on the IOU. I believe it is some type of legal instrument. That will serve (like the poem does) for multiple purposes. It will be a prompt to call a lawyers firm and inform them that you found the treasure chest and there should be like a code or number inside it to let them know that you have it, or possibly show them pictures of the treasure or in person.

        The incentives:
        1. Legal ownership pre-signed by ff to be transferred to the finder no matter where or when it was found.
        2. Some of the items in the chest may be more valuable with a certificate of authenticity that the finder will get from the law firm.
        3. The law firm was prepaid to handle the transfer and help the finder with tax filings and other legal matters.

        Also, if Mr. F is still alive he will be notified by the firm. If he is not, then someone in the family like his grandson and public notice will be given. If you do a quick google search you will find that some legal firms have been in business for hundreds of years. In the event of a closure or if the firm is dissolved they are required to transfer everything to an active law firm as custodians for future legal purposes like wills, life insurance, etc…

        • In my opinion you are exactly right Oz10. There is some kind of document in the chest that will instruct the finder how to go about obtaining legal ownership of the treasure, I believe.

        • I also believe FF has proactively cleared hurdles of transfer of ownership. In his Barry Andersen interviews he talks about how he “spent a lot of money on an attorney” figuring out who has what rights when it’s found, and what kind of land it’s on. That segment is worth a watch – only a couple of minutes long.

          If he had those kinds of talks, it seems logical to me that it go a step further and draw up documents to facilitate the transfer of the TC and its contents.

      • The most attractive incentive that Forrest could put in the chest would be that by contacting him (or his estate) he would inform the IRS that he designates the chest as being part of his IRS lifetime gift exemption. With the new tax laws, that exemption has just doubled for Forrest, making it even less of a burden on his estate. The ramifications for the finder would be impossible to ignore: tax-free trove discovery (at least for the Feds, though not for State in most cases). Worth hundreds of thousands to the finder — possibly over a million depending on the chest’s valuation — and yet costing Fenn nothing. A pretty reliable way of ensuring the finder contacts Forrest.

        • I think that is a bit of dreaming, but some dreams do come true – or so I am told by my grand kids –

        • JDA: I don’t think it’s dreaming so much as smart. If Forrest wants to know it’s been found, this is a more reliable way than anything that’s technology-based (cameras, locator beacons, etc.) I’m not an attorney, so I don’t know what would happen if it’s found after Forrest is no longer with us.

        • What if there are not tax laws in 500 or 1000 ye… Um… silly me, tricks are for kids. Skip that thought………………….

        • Hi Seeker: w.r.t. the chest’s discovery, I suspect what Forrest hoped would unfold at the time he hid it has changed as a consequence of tragic events he could not predict. Who would want that burden … or the prospect of future additional people losing their lives? While Forrest shouldn’t feel any responsibility for the poor decisions people make, it’s probably not much consolation for him. I believe he has ramped up the hints over the last year to help facilitate the end of the Chase. Consider the remarkable rate of Scrapbook releases last winter, followed by the publication of OUAW. Clearly it’s just my opinion, but the density of hints in the final dozen or so SBs as well as in the third memoir are a noticeable ramp-up from his past books and SBs.

          • Zap,
            We totally don’t see it the same in regards to discovering the chest. fenn may have been a little surprised how fast this took off… but I don’t see him being concerned at all about if and when. Personally, I think it’s the down fall of many searcher who think he wants it found some time soon. It reflects on how they may perceive what a clue might be.

            Even if you were right on your assumption… the poem’s was done long before people made bad decisions. But, bad decisions are made everyday and fenn is not ignorant to that fact… not at the time of the hide nor now or when he kick started the thought of the challenge.

            Some times ya just can’t fix stupid, and I see that stupidity ever time I drive, go shopping, out to dinner, nevertheless in places many folks have never been before. Throw in the lure and obsession … well, fenn knew how a few would act… we all could predict it.

          • Zap – I concur with your observation in that Forrest controls the amount and rate of information shared. Considering the recent incidents (not the responsibility of Forrest), he may have decided to provide more information (i.e. SB and OUAW).

          • Hi Covert One.

            I won’t comment on the latter (his new book), but with the scrapbooks, he stopped providing any new ones sometime last year….I think…..not even sure on the numbers.

            Okay…I agree that there were certain obstacles (and expected, probably), but speeding it up?

            Hmmm….sounds a bit odd for someone to change their mind in the middle of the craziness, unless it hit him harder than we all realize.

            I think someone said he knew Randy. I didn’t. But I think I also lean on the edge that “Randy” searched in an area that wasn’t even in the area to begin.

            No disrespect in that very saddening and very trajic accident….but for me it was an eye-opener. I spotted somethings I would have never done. Randy was a warning/caution for me – a city boy. I actually learned from Randy a few things.

            1. a blow-up raft will not be part of my equipment I take.
            2. I know the area I am targeting, well somewhat (been twice to the region I search.)…so I know I can be safer in my travelling.
            3. NEVER go by yourself. Safety to me is #1. If it ain’t safe – then it probably isn’t something FF did.
            4. Always have some sort of GPS, compass, knife, waterproof matches, etc…etc….I probably overpack!…..but you get the point.

            RIP Randy…..thank you.

          • Hi Seeker – “Even if you were right on your assumption… the poem’s was done long before people made bad decisions.”

            Oh, no argument there. The die was cast as far as the poem clues. But Forrest has always been free to decrease the difficulty via hints, and has certainly shown a propensity for doing so. Think of all the places we know the chest cannot be that we did not know in 2010.

            As for what Forrest could have predicted about human behavior, that’s a Monday Morning Quarterbacking question at this point. But I thought I read somewhere recently that Forrest said he never would have hidden the chest if he knew people would lose their lives trying to find it.

    • There is a thread here on HOD as well, it covered a lot of ground, but I will say I found a recent rabbit hole that has been exhilarating and fun to explore that has a link/hint to the Preston forward (no complete solve yet, but this will be one I will post if/when it dead ends). I’m lucky and live in Denver so I can go to the museum any time (when I first read the forward I said ‘no way’ but now I have a reason to go…unfortunately my link goes far enough back that I would need special access to archives to really ‘see’ it. Since we deal in whispers and entertainment I’ll give some up…FFs childhood and the annual drives to YNP most likely (IMO) went through Denver, now do you suppose there may have been a few tourist traps along the way? My hint is ‘museum’…turns out there are more than a few…think in terms of San Lazaro. OK I may have to zip it now…love it…so much fun.

  31. Thanks guy’s for all your comments it means a lot too me.

    JDA I very much appreciate your suggested contact details, I will keep it in mind.

    I’ve got a lot to take in and to still plan out, however when my mind is made up to do something then I have to go ahead and do it.

    The shortest day has passed.

    The days are slowly starting to get longer

    Counting down the months, weeks, day’s, hours and seconds.

    The end is ever drawing nigh.

    Good luck to you all in 2018.

    Stay safe in your adventure.

    Ronnie the Scot

    • Hi Ronnie, I think the best advice, as far as searching for the chest goes, is to have a “complete solve”, right up to the chest. Rather than thinking that things will be clearer, once you have boots on the ground. Good Luck

      • James P,

        I totally agree with you.

        I get one shot at this, which involves travelling 5000 miles and is an expensive trip.

        I have got to have faith in my solve, I have got a complete solve from WWWH to the Blaze.

        Ronnie the Scot

      • It would seem that way… Solve the clues and go right to the chest… Yet, where is the planning and observing in regards to the poem?
        I don’t need to do that reading or deciphering. If all this is, is follow the leader,… why would we even need imagination.

        -which I think some of us might not understand what that might be. It’s one thing to see a rail fence that may need to be repaired, requiring imagination with what you have around you ,rather than, not with you, and another to pretend you’re a pirate walking the blank and try walking the rail fence.

          • What? What?
            Maybe my analogy wasn’t a great example… The point was, there is a difference between “imagination” on a fantasy level [seeing omegas in bend of a river or a rock that looks like an animal] to imagination on a more realistic scale… a problem solving mind, that can imagine past to present and future days, idea.

            fenn was thinking down the road… but there is very little down the road thinking about the poem ~ from the posting of solutions, imo.
            [Other than a road might be around in a few hundred plus years, or a tree, or pointer that are garbage left behind by people to lazy to carry it out with them etc.]

            Example; If ‘most’ of the references of the clues were around when fenn was a kid… then it’s possible that not all the clues references were.
            Almost all would agree that at least one clues may have been, or refer to when fenn was an adult… But why can’t it be of a time before fenn was even born and is no longer around.
            [Missoula Glacier; just for an example] The imagination here is seeing what once was… not unlike a memoir… be written on a geological time scale.

            Many would like to believe the clues are about fenn… If it was me who wrote a poem about hiding a million plus, the last thing I want it to be about is me… because everyone would think just that.

            Imagination can be the difference between;
            Begin it… where warm waters halt
            ‘you are here’ line of thinking.
            Begin it where… warm waters halt.
            ‘Once upon a while’ line of thinking.

            Need to start at the beginning… need to know where to start. Both those comments can be of the past. Kinda like that little arrowhead.

            What is your imagination telling you?

          • “the last thing I want it to be about is me”

            An older man that nearly died hid a treasure to take people somewhere that was REALLY important to him.

            I believe it is a lot about him.
            I believe he wants to share of himself, and his life, and his treasures.

            I’d say mostly about him.

            But not saying this in a bad sense. Anyone that has studied psychology would affirm that is a normal part of the developmental stages when we get past the prime part of our lives.

          • Seeker;

            We are in agreement. I think that the past – “Once upon a time – a while ago, even a very long while ago” is the basis of the poem’s secret.

            I can understand the long, long look into the past, and I can see the present, it is much more difficult to look into the future, as Forrest may have seen it.

            “As I have gone alone in there “- As I have gone alone into the very special place where I secreted Indulgence – OR
            As I have gone into the story of our beginnings

            “And with my treasures bold”, – And with my treasured memories of my childhood, and of the cherished memories of this place, and of times spent with my Dad, Mom, and Skippy in this very special place –
            The special memories of how this place became what it is today, through many geologic eras.

            “I can keep my secret where”, – I can keep this place a secret, and can keep these precious memories in a place no one can find – in my heart –

            “And hint of riches new and old”. – And hint of the story behind this special place. A story that dates back eons – back 1.4 million years ago, when the most recent ice age started – to 11,700 years ago when the ice sheets (glaciers) began to retreat – laying bare a new valley that the glacier had carved. Soon after the glacier retreated -, 10,000 to 12,000 years ago, man first stepped into this valley, and it became his home. Starting with the Paleo-Indians, and moving through time to the more modern Native Americans that lived in, and hunted and gathered (peacefully) here in this valley – until today – adventurers still roam these hills. What shall the future bring? Not sure that I know, but we can only hope that tomorrows residents find the same peace that our Native American friends found here. Just musin’ – JDA

          • Hayduke,
            He did in his memoirs… but did he in his poem?
            fenn could have just wrote a book of his many years and hide clues in the stories… while the book can help a reader with the clues… do the clues location/locations have anything to do with fenn…. apparently nobody know of his special place [that’s alive]

            I doubt that his special place is mentioned in the book’s stories, but many think it might be.
            So you have a mil plus in gold and trinkets and don’t want it easily found… do you write the poem about you? I think he wanted the stories separate from the clues… and this is why the hints only are helpful with the clues… not that they might solve the reference of the clue. I think this is why he chose a poem to present the clues… to make it separate from the stories.

            Some may think a backstory is needed… I think the simple answer is we “needed” to know – in the mountains N. of SF and the poem contained 9 clues.. those are not in the poem, but they are in the book. There’s your “couple of good clues,” imo. the rest of the aberrations in the book are more for food of thought, than answering anything.

            Example… he bends word that are in a dictionary… his church is in the mountains and river bottoms are where dreams and fantasies alike go to play…etc. Other food for thought ideas are very similar to Q&A’s fundamental Guidelines, comments ~ “At almost eighty” to Don’t go where an 80 yrs old with a heavy backpack can’t And/Or the chest weighs 42 lbs.

            Things that have been asked ATF, but actually said in the book. The only other ideas of ATF comments were called clues, such as not in an outhouse, graveyard, mine, tunnel, cave, Nevada, Idaho, Utah, Canada… And later called useless clues. All they did was eliminate wrong thinking, but do they help-?- other than they might with the safety factor.

            Even 10200 feet doesn’t say much or even 5000 feet… that still covers an extreme amount of area over an approx 1500 mile stretch of mountain range … how much does it really reduce the search area?

            Do any of the above so called clues related to fenn at all? So far, everything in the poem “seems” to relate to geography… One of the very few things fenn actually said Might help or use for reference.

            I’m ok with the poem being about fenn and the challenge presented, I don’t see the clue references being about him.

          • JDA ~ ‘The special memories of how this place became what it is today, through many geologic eras.’

            Pretty much as I have suggested in the past [ right or wrong ] BUT, yes… we not really looking for a chest… that is the sales pitch, the lure, the enticement of getting folks out of the house. What we are really looking for is a piece of real estate… and we may need to understand why or even when [ where ] it all began, [begins]

          • Seeker,

            “do the clues location/locations have anything to do with fenn”

            maybe not
            maybe they are abstract and impersonal

            and maybe I am totally lost by going at this backwards by trying to understand his motivation and what place(s) would be significant, and then trying to solve clues for THAT

            but then, of course I am lost, lol, I don’t even have that much confidence anymore in Madison Jct being WWWH

          • Hayduke,
            You’re not lost… you have a lot of company to tell you what wwwh is not… self included. Nobody knows [ as far as we are told ] as if this date, that anyone actually know they have wwh, only that many have figured out where the clue reference it is… this should call out to everyone, imo, just deciphering where it is does mean we know what it means.

            Sure it could be two or three rivers converging, or a snow capped mountain, or a thermal vent or any of the many ideas. What seems to be missing is… why.

            My thoughts above are just that, thoughts. I have no clues what wwwh actually refers to. lol so that makes two of us honest to ourselves… But the thought I give relate more to the “important possibility” no one has seem to mention to fenn, Or how down the road seems important to fenn, or having certainty of the path ahead by having certainty of the location. < finding the location was done and still being found by others… BUT they don't know?
            Maybe it's the key word, IDK… I just wish some of the confident groupers would just go and see what it is they are all excited about. Maybe, Maybe one of them has it nailed down… or we are just going to hear more about how they figured it out on the way home.

            LOL, Just once I would like to hear something like; Yep did a search, bummer no find, but on the way home I had it all figured out… SO I DID A U-TURN… and had to see if I was right for a million plus in gold and precious stones… LOL I'll pay for the dang ticket if that would help…

          • Fenn said not to go in the winter.

            Strike #1 is now against you for thinking it can be pulled.

            Safety should be thought of first….and 4 ft of snow will sure be a lot of digging.

            I say…wait until the run-off occurs…safer…better viewing….fresh clean air…..and you may catch some fish!!


            Sorry bud……the drive is a nice one…..in fact….I love driving. It gives one time to just think.
            – off topic but – 80s = Va Beach to MI (12 hrs) / NM to KS (16 hrs) / NM to MI (21 hrs) / NM to SD (1 hrs)…….driving is one of the things I have endured a long time. The drive is one of the parts we all have to overcome.

            Patience is a critical part I think. Lucky for me, I am.

            Cheers – end of commentary.


          • You know Seeker…I actually want to add a thought about going in winter.

            I for one will not. BUT….I have to be honest…..I do recall one time I took a 2-3 hour snowmobile trip with a couple friends into the high Sierra Nevadas – Mammoth Mtn. I remember the trails we took….were all snow-packed and quite stunning.

            I also remember…we went to the top in those things…..11000 ft up. Snowcaps is all I can see……a photo is floating around here somewhere.

            But my point being….if anyone does decide to go searching in the winter months in the RMs….I would think snowmobiles would be a good substitute for a car……or a snow tractor maybe…..but it seems it would be plausible to move through the mountains in some extent….IF the roads were open for that kind of traffic.

            I chose to skip this part…..sounds cold. I live in the southern states for one main reason…..warmth. I can brave the cold, but the frigid cold…uh-uh…..

            Someone else can….they win!…..I handshake them….move on.

            I’ll stay by my fireplace thank you!! :o)


          • Sure wish I knew about your offer before now, Seeker. 🙂

            I’ve enjoyed what you’ve had to say over the years I’ve been involved with the Chase, and believe you have given many searchers things to consider. Thank you.

  32. In 2010 Forrest Fenn became the secret owner of a Time Machine. The Time machine is in the form of a sedan–and the treasure is in the sedan.

    Forrest picked a date in the future. For example: 11-20-18. So the sedan, the treasure, and Forrest himself will appear on that date. Lets say that the location is the Denver museum. Well, the treasure is technically “there” right now–but the correct time has not arrived, so it has not appeared yet. So, you could be 200 feet away from it easily and not even know it is “there”.

    When that correct time arrives then Forrest, the treasure and the sedan will all appear simultaneously in the parking lot.

    You are now privy to my eighth solve. lol

    • Nice ,Sparrow. I wouldn’t at all be surprised at this scenario lol. Heck, Doc in Back To The Future movie his name was Doc Brown and his dog was named Einstein lol.

    • Ha! Sparrow, Ya might not be too far off.
      Begin it where… could mean in the past, not unlike saying; remember where we use to fish? vs. Where would you like to go fishing? ~ line of thinking… past vs. present.
      Fenn did say most of the clue references were around when he was a kid… that might imply that some were not, or even the clue reference was before his time.

      That might be a easy oversight until you think about; how the references can be of both time periods.
      Example; Begin in time when[where] warm waters halt, travel through time [ the other clue references ] to HLnWH …Which could be today’s warm waters halt. In this case, NFBTFTW refers to Time, and why the poem jumps from past tense to present tense, and even future tense.
      fenn would have had to travel the clues through his imagination and connection from one time to the next… because it is the only way to ‘follow’ them.
      Ha! Take That! All ya four-wheelers… lol

      NIJ, used a 1988 Topo map for a solve… maybe the map is more on a geological time scale [ new and old ] with the right details?
      An example might be… how the waters stopped flowing at one time and now are once more, or have changed and is now standing water.
      I have pondered the thought that searchers told fenn their solve and took him through it… and there HLnWH are the first correct clues in the correct order involving the poem… but they used it later in the poem [present tense]. Hence, solving those first clues with their references, but not understanding them as the ‘correct’ first clues.

      I should call fenn and see if he want to sell the ‘sedan’… I wonder if he calls it genie. Can you imagine what some searchers would offer him for the vehicle that took him to his special place….

      • Philosophically…time may be the element of “certainty’ and “truth”.
        As a story line…”time” is saving “truth” from “envy”…

      • Seeker—–

        Very interesting and thought provoking comments. I like the geologic time scale idea—very intriguing. Thanks for that post.

  33. Ronnie, you won’t find the chest in one trip, and you need to solve past the blaze.
    Be careful, and good luck. emmett
    ps bring your own Scotch, single malts in the states are very expensive

  34. I found out recently that bears don’t technically hibernate, but go into “torpor.” Hibernating animals lose body temperature to that of their surroundings and become completely comatose, while torpid animals stay warm and can be woken. The rash of recent comments was sufficient to rouse me from my winter slumber, too.

    There are forces at work to try to help us to, at the very least, get started on the trail, and maybe to help us think about what we’ll need as we progress. They’re worth listening to. Since a lot of what is being said tallies with my own experience, I’ll offer a suggestion or two.

    If you haven’t yet found WWWH or are wavering about a decision already made, this is the time to think outside the box. IMO there are two definitive ways to find your starting point, and both will augment your tool store for later use. Think about the man and his career, and brush up on your geography – and don’t be parochial about it. But if you’re reading this 500 years in the future, know nothing about Mr. Fenn, and are living in India, The Outer Hebrides, or Patagonia, think about what WWH means for you. Once you have that information, apply it to the poem – and don’t forget what you’ve learned. I’ll say that again: apply information from out of the box into the poem, and take note of the result.

    From there, it’s a very long haul, and BOTG will be required. Why? Because even though the poem contains all the required information to get you where you need to go, unless you actually go where you’re told, you’ll not have all the information you need to progress. It’s a subtle distinction that needs to be understood.

    You are the artist, and you’ll be drawing a very big picture from information that exists in the poem and on the ground. Think of yourself as rendering the architect’s blueprint. You need to represent the image faithfully by connecting the points accurately. How you achieve that is up to you, but I know of only one consistently reliable method that’ll work wherever you find yourself.

    Oh, and don’t expect the end to just magically fall into your lap. It’s a major brain teaser. I’ve been struggling with it for weeks, and although I think I’ve a good handle on it, nothing’s certain in this mirage of a chase. (I’m going to stop calling this a treasure hunt, because it implies a static, fixed entity. While FF is with us, there’s nothing static about it. We are being played, and we have to get used to it. I used to be a little irritated by some of the interventions – now I believe it elevates the game to a “fine art”.)

    Feeling sleepy… Maybe I was just dreaming of bears. Glancing down at my long tail and stroking my whiskers, I think I must be a much smaller creature. How about a cup of tea before I curl up again?

    • One more thing, solving the poem is the task – not solving the ATFs, scrapbooks, media interviews, etc. A rule I gave myself (and I always came unstuck when I succumbed to temptation) was to solve the poem clues without thinking about the external “hints” – even if there appeared to be a contradiction. Sometimes those contradictions can arise from an incorrect reading of the hint. If the poem gives you an answer, and if that answer is validated elsewhere in the poem or on the ground, chances are that it’s correct.

      Just my two pfennigs.

  35. There is one thing I can say about this chase…..i really can’t fathom on how I am able to figure this all out. Slowly? Uhm, sure. Yeah, okay……I AM!!!!! WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT OF ME FORREST FENN!!!


    Okay…now that I got this off my chest!!!

    I can see the years amassing…….and no one ever getting the very first clue…..as in starting at a certain pont. There has to be another way to solve the beginning and where to start. My first BOTG attempts – useful…..but still I sit in ABQ with nothing…….

    *wondering what FF is thinking about*

    Be the chest.

    Good luck everyone.

    • Lol, Tim! I’ve screamed far worse at our benefactor!!

      As for getting started, think about what it says in the poem:
      Begin it where warm waters halt…

      It doesn’t say, “Begin it where warm waters halt at least 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe…”

      What does that tell you?

  36. Seeker, might it be worthwhile to consider a few what ifs? Or could denial be a comfort blanket?

    Did I hear somebody mention Humpty…?

  37. Hi Seeker, Your thoughts on why he put the clues in a poem, rather than mix them into the stories are interesting. Since the poem, is a complete and specific map to the chest, maybe it was just easier to put the clues in a poem rather than try to weave them into his stories and get the same result?


    Okay guy’s,

    My flight ticket is booked for the Rockies

    My car hire is booked for seven day’s

    I will travel approx 12000 miles round trip, this will include flying distance and car travel.

    It will take me 2 days to get to the start of my solve.

    I have carefully studied my solve for nearly a year.

    I am only interested in one location.

    I have only got one solve.

    I have never been outside of the U.K

    I believe that I have the correct solve, however how many of you guy’s have thought the same thing and have come home empty handed.

    Only Time Will Tell

    Im a big boy and I can take a punch, so what do you guy’s think my chances are of finding the T.C, with one location and one solve.

    Ronnie the Scot

    • Ronnie,
      Your chances are as good as anyone’s. My advice to you is to have alternate search sites ready before you leave. While your #1 solve may seem certain, I assure you that you will be thinking of new ones on the flight home.
      Best of luck to you.


    • Ronnie the Scot,

      If this is your first time to have BOTG, chances are probably not that good but, at a minimum, it will be a great outdoor adventure in the Rocky Mountains. Take lots of pictures if you go – it’s beautiful country in most places in the Rockies.

    • In theory 100%
      In practice by over 100,000 searchers, Zip.
      It’s only going to take on person to figure it all out, But I would like to know [ when you get back… either way ] What got ya so excited… was it the solve, really? or the prospect of being rich?… Will you give us the backstory of how it all came about that brought you to the solution?

      Just curious, you said; ‘It will take me 2 days to get to the start of my solve.’ Is that with all the traveling across the big pond and getting to the state and location, or will it take you two days to get to your search area for another reason? I hope it’s not the latter.

      • “2 days to get to the start of my solve”

        that made me curious, too

        considering how tight-lipped about the location, I figured it must be flight plans have him at a distance because of best cost from an inter-continental flight plan

      • Seeker,

        For me it’s about the challenge of solving the poem.

        You’ve probably got some of the best puzzle solvers in the world trying to solve this poem.

        To be the first to solve it, we’ll in my opinion money can’t by that.

        I look at the T.C as a great bonus.

        Ronnie the Scot

      • Hi Seeker.

        I concur….Ronnie’s story, like many I’ve read here have been outstanding. Although many just had a great time…..I too , would be interested in what that trip pulls out.

        Many go and never tell…..many share with pictures and what looks like clues…..I hope you are one that has one a tale to tell….

        …..one that can be told for many years to come. One we all wish we could tell.

        I promise this here and now…..my vow to Mr. Fenn and ALL the community of searchers……*fingers and legs crossed*……*excited*……*closes eyes*……*rubs the three four leaf clover he’s found over 35 years – winks*…..*grabs his lucky coin*…..and says……*smiles*……

        …..I “Tim (ZosoRocks)” promise to release my solve to the world if I find this trove!! All of it!! So help me Treasure Gods……

        It has been written on the internet…it must be true, right?!!!


        Good luck evereyone…..now wasn’t that some sort of fun?

    • Ronnie;

      Forrest has said, “I’m not looking at this weekend or spring break. I’m looking at 100 years or a thousand years from now.”

      I take this to mean that it is unlikely that ANYONE can find it on a weekend outing, or even over spring break. My personal experience is that it has taken over two years, and sixteen trips to my area of interest – but I may be a slow learner – Good luck anyway – AND – HAVE FUN and TRY to STAY SAFE – JDA

    • Ronnie the Scot – if you hike at elevation above other hikers, you might consider NOT wearing the Scottish kilt…that form of blaze might not go over well.

        • I know this guy who always wears a kilt, but also plays the bagpipes while hiking and it seems to work. He has never been attacked by a Grizzly bear.

        • Lug – great to see you guys proud of your heritage and hiking in a kilt. If I were Irish, I would be proud to do the same.

          Stay safe and – don’t let the wind blow your kilt up!

    • Ronnie…
      Forget the odds man ! This Chase was meant for folks to get out there and test the waters. It’s a dare for everyone. It’s a chance to be that little kid again…and head off looking for loot with Huck and Tom. I’m one of those that looks forward to the FREEDOM when out and about.
      If your stake in this is based on actually finding the treasure…while asking some folks on a blog what your chances are…you probably already know the answers!
      I say…go for it anyways…but tell your kin!

      • Couldn’t agree more, ken.

        Ronnie, don’t listen to the naysayers and those who like to belittle people who actually participate the way FF intended. This is a fantastic opportunity for anyone with the balls to go for it!

        • Wait a second Vox. We’re you that guy sitting beside the freeway with the sign that said “Please help. Need $$$$ for The Chase”.

          Just kidding. 🙂

      • “They never knew that it was the chase they sought and not the quarry.” If you don’t play, you can’t win. And if you ~do~ play, you’ve already won. Tally-Ho!

    • Like science, theories need testing.
      Dont just run your solve and stop if the location is a miss. Go back to wwwh and see if there is a different path and think on your feet. What looks good from maps isnt the case in practice.
      I see lots of published solves but no where do they say they went back and tried some more.

      • Hi Kira: an unfortunate psychological consequence of target fixation is that until that target has been truly eliminated from consideration, it is almost impossible to consider an alternative. Even knowing this quirk of human nature hasn’t helped me steer clear of it. How many searchers out there were utterly convinced they had the right answer only to have reality set in once on site? And then on their long journeys home they have epiphanies of exactly where they went wrong? Where were these wayward alternative ideas 24 hours ago? It’s not like the searcher has had any time yet to hit the books and make new discoveries. No! At least subconsciously they must have recognized flaws, harbored doubts, and worked up alternatives. But until the faulty solution was vanquished, those “inconvenient” alternative theories remained buried where they wouldn’t interfere with self-confidence. Everyone’s best ideas seem to happen on the drive home. Isn’t that interesting?

        • Zaphod

          “Everyone’s best ideas seem to happen on the drive home. Isn’t that interesting?”
          Or in the bathroom.

          When the mind is relaxed we are able to let the unsolvable be solved. Let your brain do the thinking for you.

          I believe being inflexible is the downfall of many, be it they gave up when their 1st search failed or continues to pound the same one.
          Why I advise be quick on your feet, dont do one and done, keep trying until your last day on site, the experiences will give you a leap forward amd new thoughts.

          • Kira: all my best Chase ideas have occurred while asleep, just as my solutions to other hard problems have come about. For decades I’ve kept a pen and a pad of paper next to the bed to write down any ideas that might come in the middle of the night (usually without turning on lights and just writing blind). I’ll wake up in the morning with a feeling that I might have had a breakthrough overnight, but not knowing what it was. A look to the paper pad and … voila.

          • Hi Zap. My wife has done this before and I know what you mean. It is sort of crazy how a person’s mind, in the dark can still write while still half asleep. I’d look at some of those things she wrote and boy o boy….I would be sayin’…”Huh? what is that all about?”

            It was about – she writing about someone who was going to die. They did. She’s done that twice. People she knew. People who were a relative to her I think. I think one was like an Uncle or 1st cousin maybe. This wasn’t my point though.

            To agree with you on where people come up with ideas….I can see this occurring. I’m not one of those night dreamers….shoot…I can barely get sleep nowadays, and now I am expected to write down what I am thinking. You and my wife can own those techniques. My contribution to the team is the thinking part……analytical musings within the poem and those clues it holds.

            Mac – he startd this thing for me, my wife allows me to achieve my goals and dreams, and I pretty much “alone” dream up with the adventure we would share. My son is now invoved with much better acceptance than my wife, although my wife is along side us thinking up ideas still.

            She just recently came up with a blaze to try. She is my ying and I am her yang. :o)

            So yes….one can be pretty much be anywhere, even if they are not thinking about the poem, to come up with an a-ha moment. My a-ha moment came to me when MAC and my wife came to me one morning before searching our spot and stated to me…..three words……”He was here.”

            IMO – think this could have been my “a-ha!” moment….because my mind went “BOOM!”

            We all have them….especially when people are just sitting by themselves putting their boots on.

            Good luck zap….cheers to the weekend!

            *hoists his hot cocoa*

          • Hmmm Kira…you just gave me an idea of how I can approach something outside the chase that I’ve always pondered.

            This poem, the searchers, their ideas, their perceptions, their minds of controlling their thoughts and being unable to control their thoughts…and many other variables…could very well be a life changing happening in itself.

            A social experience of sorts that may be the key I’ve looking for to unlock the minds of others. Yeah, yeah…I know…..many people have tried “telling” how it is, but those I would be targetting are those that don’t realize it…..it will have an affect, I’ve written it on paper and already see the results.

            To me, this is an interesting way to bring a social experiment to the world, allowing it to occur freely, just to see what happens…..always knowing the results that will eventually happen….hopefully – if were FF – in my lifetime, just to see how it finishes.

            This may be just an the avenue that does literally change the world.

            I thought I was a thinking man……I sometimes think am I just a novice.

            Thanks K…good luck to you.

        • Hey zap…you missed one other ooption.

          They only went in knowing they would fail and it was an information mission only….scout it out…and THEN…apply.

          BOTG theory.

    • Hi Ronnie–If you have the right where warm waters halt, you have a great chance as the clues will start to qualify each other progressively..Time might be a factor..Wrong where warm waters halt–You won’t have enough time for a second location.
      If I happen to be in the neighborhood we should get together for a WEE DRAM..Your buying if your riding high..

      • R–B.

        You are thinking way out of the box. This is why I have enjoyed this chase too…..you just never know what could happen, huh?

        But in lieu of “go in peace” – yeah, I guess you could say I would be celebrating. Quietly with my wife at first…..but now if I ran into a fellow searcher on my trek…..I really don’t know what I would do yet. I really haven’t thought about that issue.

        Oh….I’ve seen a service truck or two….they just drove on by….my wife and I looked at each other and then commensed to putting on our water backpacks…..and continued.

        Now I highly doubt I would run into another searcher and ME speaking about my find. NO WAY!!…I know when to stop drinking……hehehe…..

        I actually consider myself more of a designated driver though, so I really have eliminated that possibility.

        Now grant you…if the man himself was waiting at the spot….I’d freak, my wife would definitely freak, BUT….I’d play it cool – you know….brush with fame and all that stuff…..I wouldn’t know where to begin…..especially with my wife dancing around. Where’s that shot glass? Load it up!


      • R-B

        I’m just wondering if you are trying to get some information out of me.

        Ronnie the Scot

        • Hi Ronnie–I have my own main search area as well as a secondary plan..I never got go back for my second boots on the ground to finish my first area, time is a factor for me.I plan on heading to my spot middle of June..I just thought I would throw it out there if we happen to be in the same airport coincidentally–Like Tim says way out of the box..You said you were planning on leaving a bottle behind when you found the chest..This was my subtle way of saying we should have a couple shots out of it before you leave it out in the woods…..LOL

  39. “so what do you guy’s think my chances are of finding the T.C, with one location and one solve.”

    Since the find is Binary, and there is only ONE correct final location and solve, then the same chance as anyone else. Either it is, or it isn’t.


  40. The above threads yesterday about time and going back in time is possible to view. I have my own time machine of sorts and I have used it to see what things looked like in the approximate time F hid the chest. I use this as the geographies landscape was different then. When I said the landscape was different has changed is reference to trees, shrubs etc.

    My time machine that we all have access to is Google Earth. [ Not GM there is no option] You can go back and see what things looked like in the past in 2009 and the present. Which I can get a general idea as to what F saw. You can see what was and what was not there.

    Just say’n it might be helpful.

    • The GE timeline was helpful to me, CharlieM. It showed me quite clearly in one instance that a specific ground marking was not there in 2009, but had appeared by the next update.

  41. Hello to all! 😀

    I am on and off of the various conversations on here – mostly so I don’t jumble my own thoughts too much with all of yours! But I recently had some things pop out that hadn’t previously; and it basically wiped the slate clean for me so I’m back to probe the Fenn-munity for some ideas.

    Who out there is focused in on word-play for the clues? I read (cannot find again) some stuff about a European fellow who was great with Cryptic Crosswords – he set forth to solve the poem and then “found it no longer appropriate”, or something to that affect to, aid in the search. What was this all about? Does anyone have information that can elaborate on this?

    I ask all of this in hopes that I can affirm what the “word that is key” is. If the poem is a map, then there has to be a key or legend or something that helps the viewer interpret the cartographer’s picture in the correct way… right?

    I’m guessing it is the “word that is key” (and BTW forgive me if I am quoting that wrong – I think that exact quote needs added to the cheat sheet). I’m thinking that, if the cryptic crossword idea had any merit, it would be that Fenn used a combination of the clue “types”, and in a partial form only, to shadow what his words really mean. This is backed up by the statements indicating that sometimes you’re thinking on multiple levels and at others only on a single level. Anagrams and spoonerism (two clue types common in cryptics) are indicated by the “butterfly-flutterby” – which is a lesson learned that sticks out in TTOTC. Obviously the word I suspect is “butterfly”.

    So back to why I think there might be some merit here… In CC (Cryptic Crosswords) there are set rules that make the clues ALWAYS work out – these are closely followed by setters so they can enjoy their part and let those who solve enjoy their part as well. The clues are “self-checking” and always tell you the same thing twice.
    1. There is a precise definition
    2. There is wordplay that indicates that same definition
    So for Forrest to say “All you need is the poem” it makes me think that the darn thing self-checks… like these clue types.

    A great example: “Naming words on sun in new position”
    Answer: “Nouns” – Naming words are nouns. “on sun” in a “new position” anagrams back to nouns.

    But with Forrest giving the idea that there is a word that is key makes me think that he’s narrowing the types of play he’s used. Maybe?
    Back to “butterfly” – the lesson he teaches is that it’s actually a “flutterby”. This could be interpreted as spoonerism – a clue type where you’re altering the syllables and how the words sound OR as an anagram – where you jumble the letters around to make something new.

    I’ll throw this out there:
    Capital letters can indicate that THAT letter (letter that is cap’d) is important and might be the start of the actual word/phrase.

    “home of Brown” as an anagram gives: “Bone from who” – if you recall the original plan was to cast his body atop Indulgence with his last breath – a poem about that spot might have some kind of a phrase indicating that you’ve found a chest put in below the Bone from who? (the man who you’re reading about once you’ve opened the chest and started reading???)

    Anyone else on this avenue? Anyone else want to share their “word that is key” and turn my brain inside out again? I’m all in for the group solve if there are a couple well-minded individuals out there who want to skunk works this thing. A portion of a couple million is still a fair amount of dough and I think Fenn deserves to shake the hand(s) of the guy/gal/group that collects Indulgence from where it rests.


    • Don, playing with anagrams is fun, but too many possibilities.
      Butterfly, flutterby is one of the easy ones. It’s a shift cypher if you will. B=FL. However you decode that is on you. For me, it is support info for my letter values, because, B=2, F=1, and L=1.
      For the word that is key, you said it. You need to see what you posted. “A word that is key”. Say it over, and over, and over, and over, etc…etc…etc…and over….”A word that is key”, keep saying it. See now the 2 possibilities? Maybe this will help: A word THAT…… is key. Or, A word……that just so happens to be KEY.
      As far as who is focused on word play, I think we all have dabbled in that at some point. It still is a possible, and you may find some that are into it. Just don’t look into it and come back with “too far to” equals 242. Ridiculous…
      If you asked me, trying to solve individual clues from the poem will get you nothing. Have to look at it as needing to solve the poem. Don’t try to solve a clue, don’t try to assume what a clue really is, don’t pick lines in the poem and say they are clues because they are popular within the masses thoughts, don’t even think of clues. Think 100, 1000 years down the line. How would someone then solve for the clues if: places have their names changed, places are destroyed, things move. If the poem actually told you a place or whatever a clue was, if that place was destroyed, or had it’s name changed, or maybe population took it over, how would someone 1000 years from now be able to find it. But yet, that person, even if it is a little more difficult, still has the same chance as us.
      “Difficult so it won’t be found right away, but it’s easy enough so that it’s not impossible to find it… I want sweaty bodies out there looking for my treasure- they just have to find the clues”. Sounds like to me that the poem will give you a spot, the “X”, and the path you take, you will find some of the clues. He’s not saying “solve” the clues, he’s saying “find” the clues. It’s easy to see that if someone 1000 years from now solves the poem, then they can follow a path to that place. If that path no longer has the clues, it will be tougher for them, but they still have the same opportunity to find the chest like we do. Remember, the only important clue is the last one. The last clue must be one that IS solvable with the poem. Focus all your chase energy into solving the poem. Let the poem “find” the clues.
      Some people have tried the “cryptic crossword” thing. It is very sketchy at best, IMO. Same with anagrams, easy to get into the guessing game if you follow that route. Best bet, to find a way to solve the poem, you may just get lucky.

    • Don, I’m playing with it. What I learned is that even these ‘types’ of clues don’t always necessarily need a word that is key, esp if they are self contained. Now, if one word/key could make it easier to decipher, how will that work in your opinion?

  42. Voxpops and Ken,

    Thanks for your comments, I am thicked skin and would be the first person to say that if your easily offended then don’t go on blogs, facebook etc.

    I am very protective off my solve, I have spent nearly a year studying the poem, I don’t have any of Forrest Fenns books.

    However I have studied over and over again a lot off Fenns videos and some of what he has written.

    I will say this Forrest has said that all you need is the poem to find the T.C

    I agree with him 100% the subtle hints only come in to play once you have the correct area.

    I will also say this study the poem from start to finish, finish to start and side to side.

    The poem may not be all it seems, however you do not “MESS” with the poem.

    Study every word carefully, but what do I know.

    I haven’t given anything away, but I have said enough.

    Good luck in your search guy’s

    Ronnie the Scot

    • Ronnie: I’m going to sound like Debbie Downer, but if you don’t have the books, I think you have little chance of finding the chest. Yes: the poem ~should~ be all you need. I am at heart a poem-purist, and feel that is technically true. But the reality is that the poem can lead you to a lot of seemingly equally good destinations, with no solid means of choosing among them. I think the books help a lot in terms of making better choices. And the large volume of Forrest’s post-poem (ATF) comments are also good tests for would-be solutions.

      • Zaphod,

        Thanks for your comment, I somehow have this feeling that my son and daughter have bought me the TTOTC, but I could be wrong.

        I won’t build my hopes up too much.

        Ronnie the Scot

    • Ronnie, I’ll take the opposite side of that argument and say that you’re better off not being distracted by the books. I find the books useful for getting a sense for how Mr Fenn thinks, but when I’ve gone looking for hints I find so many possibilities that I could pick ones to support almost any solve. I find the poem much more specific. Best of luck on your trip.

        • FD,
          Since the poem has a lot less total information to begin with, if you find something specific in the poem I think that it’s much more likely to be useful. For me the trick is finding things in the poem that aren’t vague.

          One other thing that I do is to try to find at least 5 interpretations for each line in the poem. When I get possible solutions to a few lines that mesh with each other and start to form a coherent narrative I follow that thread further. It would be hard to take this approach with the amount of text that is in the book.

          • Agree JW. I find some lines have 10 different interpretations. Some just 1 or 2. Look for things not vague, by design, the flow, yup, I agree.

          • Well, I think the poem has only one specific thing that will lead to the correct first clue location.

            To me, the question is…are you gonna be able to find that one specific connection or not? Therefore, I wouldn’t be going the more simpler route if I didn’t get the hints in the book involved.

  43. ABC’s Nightline will have a story tonight Frday, January 12th, about searching for the chest on Grayling Creek in Montana…
    There is an interview with Forrest…It might be interesting to see what he had to say…

    Cynthia and I wrote stories about being filmed while we were out searching on Grayling Creek…
    You can see our two stories here:
    and here:

    I suspect the Nightline video will be posted after it airs this evening. I will put the link up on the blog stories that we wrote and also on the Media Content page..

        • Ohhhhhh Jamie, thanks, the picture, I can’t get it out of my head. Oww, my brain is now scarred. (you know that face one makes when they bite into a lemon).

        • Jonsey1-
          You know…I was wearing my Speedos under my jeans but the crew dug into their pockets and paid me $106.14 to keep my pants on. Cynthia, Molly and I spent the money at the Moose and Skunk bar. That Molly can slurp up a few beers…

    • Thanks Dal. A new interview!! Nice. Been a while, huh?

      That reminds me. How did you manage to get Expedtion Unknown to go out with you?

      I know this sounds crazy…because I’ve tried twice in contacting them. But silence is all I get. Don’t they need new footage?…or is the thrill actually fading into history?

      I look at a possible fortune to be made with a notable documentary or film crew. It wouldn’t cost me much more than what I am budgetted for now.

      I think I would have to dream even bigger, huh? Maybe a one-on-one with Josh Gates personally, after a non-disclosure……hehehe

      Crazy…..just wild and funny in ways.

      or……just irrational musings of a dreamer, huh?

      Thanks anyhow, Dal. Good luck to you…keep up the good work.

    • There are two stories on the ABC site plus a very short video promo.. One story is video and the other is written. The written story is here:

      The video story can be found here:

      The promo is here:

      I see that the new Chief Ranger over at Yellowstone still doesn’t want searchers in the park…too bad I guess!!!

      I gleaned a couple of hints from the things Forrest said in that written story…

      • Can we take the written story at face value? He didn’t repeat the comments in the filmed version. Plus, “the Grizzlies alone are something to think about” hints at a general area the treasure could be hidden, unless he’s making a general safety statement for searchers looking in Grizzly territory.

        • DM90
          To decide that is a hint or not will be argued till the chest is found. I have my own thoughts about it and they are probably different than 50% of other’s thoughts who ponder the intent of that provocative line..

      • From the written;
        “And the reason that it’s Madison junction, is because two of the warmest rivers in the park absolutely halt and stop,” Nietzel said.”

        That wasn’t in the broadcast, was it?

      • Also edited, unless I am missing something;

        “People tend to over-complicate. Try to simplify if you can. That’s good advice.”

        The “People tend to over-complicate” line wasn’t in the video. Was it?

        • Hayduke,
          It’s probably just me… but these comments have been stated before. [ regardless about the show ].
          fenn; “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, bible verses, Latin, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f” 

          I think many would like the poem’s solve to be much easier that fenn’s comment “difficult, but not impossible” For me… the “over complicating” is when we leave the poem to look for answers outside it.

          “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search…”
          Be it me to think that fenn might be saying; *”the ‘complexity’ of the search”* is difficult enough without bringing in a bunch of unknowns… “all the information to find the chest is in the poem” And, admitting the poem is “complex”
          ~No need for special Knowledge: head pressure, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, depth meters…
          ~The poem is in plain English; No, bible verses, Latin, codes, ciphers…
          ~No tools; drones, graphs…

          And fenn has given the suggestions of reference tools to use… TTOTC book, GE and/or a good map… and I’ll add… a map with more details. Question is, what details are they?

          End of commentary…

          • Seeker,

            Well said, and I agree.
            I needed this affirmation, again.
            As well as your response the other day, when I get distracted by all the weird interpretations I read all over.

            I have to keep reading this one:
            “It seems like the longer one thinks about the search the more they complicate the problem”


      • Dal,

        “I see that the new Chief Ranger over at Yellowstone still doesn’t want searchers in the park…too bad I guess!!!”

        I support the ranger, and here is just one example that I have come across as why…


        The guy has some really good ideas, IMO, but then the part of going off into an active thermal area up Rabbit Creek… well, that is really concerning to those of us that respect and love the National Park, that deserves to be protected from fools violating the regulations of the park and causing damage.

        Starting the search from the park seems cool, but if the TC is inside the park, then I believe that was an irresponsible move.
        So if it isn’t, I wish FF would clarify that, to prevent worst-case-scenarios.

        • Just watch this… he does have some good ideas and theories… but he might have screwed up on Nigh. The left side, right side, or banks of a creek is determined by water flow direction, not the left side of a map. If the water flows north… the left side is on the west. If the water flows south… the left side is on the right, on a map. Water flow west to east the left side is on the north, or if east to west the left side is south… on a map.

          • I didn’t know that about river direction dictating the left or right, thanks for sharing. It could be relevant depending on the solve. I’m still considering lots of possibilities.

        • HayDuke Above you put a quote; I have to keep reading this one:
          “It seems like the longer one thinks about the search the more they complicate the problem”
          As I posted below… my point is similar to “longer one thinks about the search”

          IMO, that is about target fixation and not about the poem. The fellow in the video seemed to simply pick the left bank because he is looking at a map and reads left to right.
          {I don’t know the water flow of this creek} But he could have gone the opposite way of the correct clues IF he didn’t think about what side is what.
          Side note; I did like his thinking, but it seems forced… picking firer hole… using introductions of fish in the 1800’s [ where did that knowledge come from? would a guy from TX and his family figure that out?]… Also he would need to travel by car [road] from clue to clues. Or an imaginary boat etc. etc.
          Do little Bobby and Sally and the family pet ever leave the car on the search for ‘fenn’s trove’?

          • Seeker,

            I agree with you for the most part, however, I actually like this solve:

            “using introductions of fish in the 1800’s”

            It makes a good fit if one were to consider WWWH as Ojo Caliente, where Fenn bathed “with treasures bold”
            Yeah, all up for debate and criticism. But also worthy of being possible, as well, IMO.

        • Hmmm… Some of the Rockys don’t have Grizzly Bears do they? Is it the South? Hey Dal sorry if this has been asked answered all ready but when did you go out with Nightline and when was Forrests interview taped?
          So jealous Cynthia got to ride in Esmerelda!!! Lol… You guys were great but my Oscar nom goes to Molly 🙂

          • Spallies-
            It was mid September ’17 when they filmed that piece with us in Gallatin County. Forrest’s interview came about October 14th. I don’t know when they filmed the other interviews.
            That Molly is quite the hunter. Cynthia has trained her to track the scent of gold, bronze and beer. She didn’t find the chest but she led us to 8 bars in Ennis.

          • I believe Wind River Range is the furthest south for Griz. Last Griz in Utah was Old Ephraim, killed somewhat near the Idaho border, a little south of Bear Lake. Cool rock monument where he was killed.

          • HeyDukecc – Old Ephraim’s monument was one of our regular picnicing sites when I was a kid. Now I will need to go pay a visit just for the memories… 🙂

          • JCM,
            Yeah, gorgeous area. Where are you? I am in North Ogden. Used to fish Blacksmiths all the time. Fun areas to explore up between there and Old Ephraims.

        • Dal ~’That Molly is quite the hunter. Cynthia has trained her to track the scent of gold, bronze and beer. She didn’t find the chest but she led us to 8 bars in Ennis.’

          Ha! Can I borrow Molly for Saint Patrick Day, Cynthia… Can she drive or do you think we’ll both need a DD?

        • I am in NSL. Grew up in Cache Valley and spent a lot of time camping and fishing up left hand of Blacksmith Fork.

      • I thought I remember also Forrest saying that some people were over simplifying. Does anyone remember that?

        • Yes, Lou Lee — that was Phil: “There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them. You over simplify the clues. There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts.”

          • Oh yes. Thank you so much! That’s funny. A little contradiction. We must find the middle. Lol

        • Here we go again! Another one of those “opposing” comments. It must be tough for Fenn to keep it all straight….

          • Maybe Phil WAS oversimplifying the clues, and needed to look a bit deeper into the meanings of Forrest’s words – where-as Forrest may be directing his comment now to someone who is trying to make the poem more complicated than it really is. Who knows? – JDA

      • Dal

        This is all in my humble opinion:

        I sure enjoyed watching the video. I was blown away by Forrest’s comments. Especially this one:

        “Try to simplify if you can. That’s good advice.”

        For me this means my solve is still in the running. It is fairly simple overall. This comment gives me real hope. I cannot discuss this further. If you knew what I know, you would be excited too.

        “the Grizzlies alone are something to think about”

        My take on this is that he is trying to be cautionary. He knows many are searching in Grizzly country, and he wants to make folks be more “bear aware”. He clearly does not want another tragedy.

        Have gun will travel (soon I pray).


        • Franklin and all,
          Bear in mind, we dont know what is all over the cutting room floor.
          As the eager rush to use this as bias, be careful with that confirmation

          • Kira

            Good point. I do agree there was possibly more to it, but we may never know. Can we use the freedom on info act to get the rest?

            Gotta love it!


          • Kira,
            I thought the same thing when fenn implied he said to much.{cutting room floor}
            But lets go with what we have… Out of all the possible warning fenn could have stated,… he mentioned the Griz. Why not rattlers or cats?
            Just a simple google search shows the areas they inhabit… Canada, MT, WY, Idaho and other northern states… I saw nothing is mentioned about NM or even CO… But I’m sure a few have wandered, not unlike the occasional moose that decide to take a road trip from Canada to upstate NY every now and then.

            The interesting part is, fenn has eliminated two location in NM, but nothing in the other states. he talks about the grizzlies a lot, even in e-mails and Q&A’s … while I doubt fenn will allow anyone to dictate to him anything about the chase… in recent years and events [ with searchers ] I kinda agree with Cynthia’s thought… there seems to be subtle food for thoughts about NM might not be where the chest lays in wait.
            Could this be why he stated “In the mountains “North” of SF” and not so much In the mountains above SF ‘NM’ [ as an example ].
            None of this will help locate the chest, but it might just give food for thought re-reading statements and comments of the past and why some of those statements needed to be told of… Like the chest is not under water.

            Unfortunately, those who are target fixated will dismiss the idea.

            End of commentary.

          • Seeker,
            Im not to check tjese tjoughts atm, but dont to lose them, so going to post this.
            The story was a planned story about YNP search. We know this per Dal sending a request out months ago about possible searchers there at the time.
            So the piece was YNP focus and we dont know if Fenn was asked if there were concerns about looking in YNP, we just have Fenn cautioning of Griz, right. Dont recall a question before that.
            This seems appropriate for the piece.

            I know ppl fear the Griz and scream bear spray bear spray bear spray… well bear spray is last resort, I dont think people know this in general.

            Did Fenn have to limit areas, no, he coukd have just said dont raft, but I think it was 2 ppl killed in the area that led it.

            Take away is without the full transcipt, its just a rabbit hole.

          • The written edition states that Fenn’s “I’ve said too much…” comment was in direct reference to his hint/clue…” Try to simplify…” comment….
            and doesn’t seem to refer back to the entire piece. You all can dream up all the scenarios you want…it ain’t gonna solve the poem.

          • From the written edition:


            “I didn’t anticipate that people would die searching for my treasure,” Fenn said. “But in the back of my mind, it had to be logical that that could happen because there’s so many things that can happen to a person when he’s out in the wilderness. I mean, the grizzly bears alone are something to think about.”

            While Fenn remains tight-lipped about the location, he did admit that someone was just 200-feet away from the location at one time. “I know exactly where they were because they told me.”

            To “Nightline,” he also hesitantly revealed another hint: “People tend to over-complicate. Try to simplify if you can. That’s good advice.”

            “I’ve said more than I should have said,” he said of his hint.

            “he said of his hint”
            Fenn never said THOSE words, the author of the article put those words.

            IMO, there is NO concrete evidence that would allow us to say definitively what he said that was “more than I should have”
            IMO, that is completely up for OUR own interpretation and guessing.

            Another line from the author:
            “he also hesitantly revealed another hint”
            ANOTHER hint?


          • I concur that it is unknown what was omitted, although there seems to be some things in this that he has repeated in the past.

          • Hayduke,

            Whats a hint… something that helps, right?
            Well, isn’t saying, try to simplify anything a hint, as to adjusting, someone thinking or reading the poem? Do we really need fenn to say this is a hint and that is a clue and this is right and that is wrong…
            I think the comment is probably very good advise [ hinting ] at how the poem can be read as. Or imo, adjust away from our thoughts and think in lines of a solution that doesn’t require… cars, tools, boats, added clues over 9 important references, go into places that are risky at best because of a single word ‘meek’.. etc.

            Whatever fenn meant about ‘said more than he should have’ That info should be considered helpful because fenn didn’t really want to say what he did. That imo is exactly what a hint does… help [ food for thought, idea ]… not solve.

          • Seeker
            Fenn also said, he said more than he should, with in Pinyon comment… ppl sought to limit the area based on that, how is this any different?

          • Seeker,

            No argument with any of that.
            But, that is not what I was getting at.

            The author made it seem like his “more than I should have said” about the simplify words.
            How does the author, or any of us, know for sure that THAT is what he said more about than he should have?

            Maybe, or maybe not, he said more than he should about something else during the interview.
            Maybe the grizzlies?
            Maybe something else that was very subtle.

          • Also in my previous post, I brought up the words “another hint” that the author included in the article.
            That would infer that there are more than one hint given.
            Is there?
            Do we believe there is just because the author interpreted it that way?

            IMO, we can only guess about these things, and wonder if there are or not additional hints from the interview.

          • Kari , Duke
            That’s why I said; whatever fenn meant as to ‘saying to much’ we don’t really know what fenn was referring to but he obviously said something… Like the pinyon nut comment, many want to think pinyon as the hint… I think it was something he said just before telling us what he would see and smell. Which might refer to NM as as the location of the chest.

            Now with a few recently added comments [ even second hand comments ] North as in North of SF [ without the state mentioned ] seems to imply much farther North than NM or farther up into the RM’s

            While this is nothing more than speculation.. it is a logical assumption when we add many other comments, the stories in the book, as a general hinting idea that the clues refer to something when fenn was much younger.

            He could have written the poem before he hid the chest, he’s stuck at age 13, and says in the preface of the book anyone over 12 deserve a second chance [ close enough for horseshoes ] These are the kinda things I look for has hints to help with understanding the poem… nothing directly linking to the poem, But as tesla likes to says… a handshake… and IMO, enough of a handshake to consider the idea that he may have hinted father north tan many want the location to be.

            But I agree and have argued… jumping to conclusions on any given comment is a bad idea… we need to find a way for all the comments [ as many as possible ] check and balance each other to what the poem might be telling us.

            The sad part about this is… fenn saying this might be his last interview. While I never thought fenn was handing out clues and hints like candy on Halloween… imo, he always seem to give food for thought.

          • Seeker,

            “But I agree and have argued… jumping to conclusions on any given comment is a bad idea… we need to find a way for all the comments [ as many as possible ] check and balance each other to what the poem might be telling us.”


            I am guessing that many will get sucked into accepting what the author stated as scripture, since it was an article, and that makes them HAVE to be the true interpretation. (chuckle)

  44. What video was it where Mr. Fenn, was saying , that as a tax payer, he owned, a certain amount of public land? I’m thinking it was one of the Santa Fe, videos? Thanks

    • I don’t believe it was a video [ not sure ]… I think he talked about it in a SB, secreting a DR. Pepper on his allotted public land using the population of citizens to public land area… approx 2 ac.

      • Thanks Seeker, The 2 ac., is what I was looking for. Yep, I thought it could have been a SB. to.

        • I don’t know why the approx 2 ac. would help, I’m sure you have your reasons.
          But just thinking on a future sense… The population in 1930, the year fenn was born, or in 3009 are quite different than/will be, today.
          I just don’t see the acreage calculation as helpful in that respect.

    • Hey James…it is odd you would mention that, because at one timie in our musings, Mac and I actually looked init “staking a lot of land as a mining stake”….that would secure our area.

      Of course we only rambled on about it, but it is odd you mention that.

      Hmmm….maybe I should’ve……There gold in them thar hills!!

      *raises pick and shovel and metal detector*

      Ma, were packin’ up and goin’ pannin’ Grab Kody and Chance!!!

    • “There are 654,885,389 acres of land in the United States that are owned by the American people. That is what the federal government admits is ‘public property.’ And the population of this great country is 313,914,040. After doing the math I learn that my allotment is exactly 2.086 acres. Now, what if I wanted to secret a can of Dr. Pepper under a rock in the cooling waters of a rivulet somewhere in my allotted public acreage?” If I did, I would not need to use all of my area, I would need just 7.5 fluid ounces and 90 calories of space. And I would still have about 2.08555 acres remaining. Seems fair to me but would I have broken the law? Yes or No? If yes, then let us change the law because who knows where that nonsense could end. If no, then why are we getting so excited about the little things?April 11, 2013 Huffington Post

  45. …and Hayduke…..

    If you think it can be you, it can be…..our human will is quite strong.

    It may have taken me 30+ years of treasure hunting in order to find some sort of treasure….I was persistent with my search. Never discarding the thoughts of finding something….but always keeping close I will.

    Some treasures I have found and since have passed on to others.

    1960a/70a David Karp enamel on copper $75.00 – BV maybe $500-600. Gave as a wedding present to my brother.
    1963 The Amazing spiderman #2 – ripped thruout – $0.25 – sold for $286.00 over 11000% profit!!
    Early 1940s(?) A.D. Greer Blue and White oil – 1/2 price day on a $50.00 “floral painting”…paid $25.00 – BV = $1500-2500.00 depends if it is cleaned.
    1968 Track (UK) Jimi Hendrix Electric Ladyland NM condition – $1.00 – BV >$400.00

    I’m no stranger to finding things….anyone can do it.

    You just need patience perseverance, dedication, and a little of freestyle imagination.

    Happy hunting to us all.

    • Tim. I have a true story pertaining to this chase that is at the ‘odd end of things’. Maybe you might find it interesting or not. I’ll make it short in the telling of the story.

      I had my solve. I formulated it in less than a month and it was a very simple solve. I went twice to try and get to my spot but failed to get to it. About a month later I decided that I am finished with this chase and closed the book on it so-to-speak. A few days later my dad calls me (he doesn’t know anything about my solve or much about this chase) with a concern about 3 items he found in his acreage property . He said someone must of been on his property and left these items. They were all in close proximity of each other. My dad was going away for a week and asked if I would stay at his property while they were away due to his concern. The items found were all Clue references in my solve!!. I didn’t mention this ,of course, to my dad and agreed to stay on his property for security purposes.

      I couldn’t believe the items left by someone on his property right at this time and what they were was too eerie to the chase to ignore.

      This event brought me back into the fold of this chase- synchronicity or just random happenstances? Not knowing anything for certain, I always go with the flow.

      My dad turned in the items to the police lol.

      Just one of my weird weird chase related stories. IMO .

        • Sean, thanks for the interest. I don’t want to say what the items were, understandably I hope. I can say that two of the items were directly related to what I have deciphered as clues in the poem. The other one is what I interpret as a hint I relate to that was given outside the poem in a SB. The items were concise to my solve. IMO . These were very odd items to find, how they were found and when. At first when I put two and two together I just laughed at the idea and point blank similarity of them. For, I am not one that believes in chance nor happenstance. I understand that synchronicity happens all the time, one just has to notice.

          This wasn’t the first odd experience with this chase. I just have an open mind. Doesn’t mean these things have to mean something, it’s just I believe they do mean something. Historically for me in my experience, these types of things can have substance. Just not always what we think the synchronicity substance leads to ,is always obvious .

          It was truly a stranger things confirmation bias lol. IMO .

          • No kidding. A few years ago I bought a black Maserati. Only two people in the entire world knew I was getting it, me and my 16 year old daughter. The day before it arrived one of her teachers turned to her, looked directly at her and made a comment about buying a black Maserati.

            I changed all my passwords that night.

          • Alsetenash

            This is very interesting to read, and I understand why you may not want to reveal what the items are. I guess I am wondering if you can say a comment about the property? Is the property located within the 4 eligible states for the TC? If you say yes, then it is even more compelling.


          • Thanks Franklin. It was a strange day .I live in Canada;so ,no to within the 4 states . Just a weird story I thought to share. I see some people have had some of their own weird ones.

          • This is amazing. I bought a black Maserati just recently and found 3 strange items inside that looked like they had recently been on farm land. What a strange coincidence.

      • I too have a strange story. I was at a estate sale a few years ago. I bought a weird book called Montana 1942. Anyone read It? The story takes place outside of the Rocky mountains but….inside on a blank page written in pencil is a strange map in the main area that people are looking in Montana. It’s got a triangle drawing pointing to a area written “fenn”. It’s strange because the book has nothing to do with the search areas of Montana in Question. At this sale I also bought books on fly fishing areas of Montana. So
        It’s my mystery. I still am going to check out this location.

        • I was wondering if a friend of the Fenn family or someone who fished with his dad was sharing a special fishing hole location.? JUST THOUGHTS?

  46. Do hikers get the 3rd degree from National Park employees asking if they’re looking for the FF treasure? Also, interested to know if anyone has ever suspected NP employees searching while they’re out there.

    • Fishin…I have never been hassled while out and about in the Parks. I am sure there are NP employees who pay attention so to speak. They would be foolish not to….on both ends of the spectrum.

    • In my experiences, the Yellowstone NP is grossly understaffed, and therefore, I witness frequently on every visit, tour bus visitors going off path in thermal areas for selfies, and no rangers around to correct them.
      My last few visits I have said things to violators, with mostly little to no positive response. One group was even standing next to a thermal pool watching this little kid throw rocks into the pool. Fortunately when I pointed out that they were not supposed to be there, they all hurried back to the path. Right afterwards, I encountered a young couple standing in a fragile area near Castle Geyser, and advised they are not supposed to be there, in which the guy replied “we know” and continued taking their selfies.

      My point; I seriously doubt any Chase violators are going to be confronted, since I rarely witness any responses to violations in the highly visited areas.

      Sidenote, year before last, we were just up the road from Norris when the young man ventured off and “slipped” into the pool and became instant stew while his sister watched helplessly.

  47. “the Grizzlies alone are something to think about”

    Clue, or not?

    Reminds me of what I read of Dal’s first adventure up Grayling Creek:

    Fenn teases:
    “Chip, whatever you do don’t let anyone find the treasure up on Grayling Creek.”

    Dal writes:
    “That sneaky Forrest. He knows I won’t be able to look anywhere I’d planned now that Grayling Creek is stuck in my head. Of course it’s a red herring. Of course Forrest is having fun with us. I know this as clearly as I know my own name.”


    ” the conversation turns pretty quickly to the location of Forrest’s chest and his intoxicating note that snidely suggests he hid it in Grayling Canyon. We are all confident that the chest is NOT along Grayling Creek. We chuckle as we recall the playful note Forrest sent us. ”


    “Yet, we also know that we MUST look along Grayling Creek because if we don’t and that turns out to be the spot…won’t we be the fools…”

    So, does one easily brush aside the Grizzly comment?

          • I feel pretty ignorant, I have no clue at all what Loch Leven means with respect to this topic.

          • Hayduke – you are not alone; not everything said here is meant to be interpreted or make sense.

            (not that the author did or did not want this to have meaning)

          • I believe it is a “weak” reference to brown trout….how that ties in with anything in this thread is a mystery.

          • **** Strawshadow wondered – “. . . what’s the catch besides a Loch Leven?” ****

            Baked trout and a highland malt whisky, of course.


        • I can only suspect or deduce it may have something to do with heritage.

          How it applies the chase…..is there a hint in there. I think so…..but like everything else in this chase……we may need to rise to the occasion more often than not and rule this Fenn guy.

          He says it isn’t impossible. But how much of difficult can you manage?

          Interesting as it sounds….and unbelieveable as it seems…..things seem strange all around.

          Why Forrest…WHY???!!!


          It’s tough, huh Hayduke.

          • LedTim,

            “I can only suspect or deduce it may have something to do with heritage.”

            Care to elaborate?
            I’m feeling kinda dense this morning, not getting much of what anyone is saying.

        • Some background on the different genetic strains of brown trout…


          Brown trout

          Brown trout (Salmo trutta) are not native to the United States. They were first introduced into the U.S. from Scotland, the Loch Leven strain, and from Germany, the Von Behr strain in 1882. Both strains were introduced into Yellowstone beginning in 1890. Shoshone and Lewis Lakes received plants in 1890. It was introduced into the Firehole River above and below Firehole Falls, the Madison River and the Gibbon River below Gibbon Falls in 1890.[15] Brown trout also occur in the Yellowstone River below Knowles Falls, the Gardner River below Osprey Falls, in Middle Creek, a tributary of the Shoshone River and the Gallatin River. These populations resulted from upstream migrations by fish stocked in Wyoming and Montana. Brown Trout do not exist in the Bechler River or Fall River drainages in the southwest corner of the park


          The first introductions into the U.S. started in 1883 when Fred Mather, a New York pisciculturist and angler, under the authority of the U.S. Fish Commissioner, Spencer Baird, obtained brown trout eggs from a Baron Lucius von Behr, president of the German Fishing Society (de). The von Behr brown trout came from both mountain streams and large lakes in the Black Forest region of Baden-Württemberg.[8] The original shipment of “von Behr” brown trout eggs were handled by three hatcheries, one on Long Island, the Cold Spring Hatchery operated by Mather, one in Caledonia, New York operated by pisciculturalist Seth Green, and other hatchery in Northville, Michigan. Additional shipments of “von Behr” brown trout eggs arrived in 1884. In 1885, brown trout eggs from Loch Leven, Scotland, arrived in New York. These “Loch Leven” brown trout were distributed to the same hatcheries. Over the next few years, additional eggs from Scotland, England, and Germany were shipped to U.S. hatcheries. Behnke (2007) believed all life forms of brown trout—anadromous, riverine and lacustine—were imported into the U.S. and intermingled genetically to create what he calls the American generic brown trout and a single subspecies the North European brown trout (S. t. trutta).[8]

  48. There is new information (at least maybe hints) to ponder this off-season. Here are some key dates / events from late last year:


    Field filming in Gallatin County (Dal / Cynthia): Mid September ’17
    Forrest’s interview for the story: Mid October ’17
    Nightline story release: January 12th ’18

    New Book – Once Upon a While:

    OUAW Book Released: Late October ’17
    OUAW Book Event in Santa Fe: November 2nd ’17

    I still think we need a shot-gun start to the 2018 season!

    • What do the dates have to do with anything [ if that is what your thinking about ]?
      I’m sure the date of the filming was nothing more than it worked out for everyone
      The release date of the program is of no control of anyone other than the company running the show.
      The book signing seemed be be the work of the book store more than anyone else.

      Can ya help me out as to why the dates seem curious to you?

    • Covert, I don’t know why the dates matter but: ABC filmed me and Dal in the West Yellowstone area mid-September because that’s when Dal and I were going. They met our schedule; we did not meet theirs. They filmed Forrest at his house Nov 14th. The first time it was scheduled, Forrest postponed it due to personal reasons. The next time it was scheduled they (Clayton, etc) couldn’t go to SF because of a shooting in the Denver area (this was around Nov 2nd book-signing). So it finally worked for all parties Nov 14th. The show could have aired before Jan 12th but kept getting pushed for other stories. When it comes right down to it, this treasure hunt isn’t as big in the eyes of the world as some of us would think, including me, until someone dies searching. Then the news can exploit it (the hunt) and Forrest. They’ve been doing it quite successfully since Randy disappeared in January 2016. I was surprised ABC went this route as other media have done in the last 2 years. Sensationalizing 3 deaths versus the joy the chase has brought for 350,000 people. (BOTG and others.)

      • Hi Cynthia – I stand corrected. Earlier I repeated an approximate date noted by Dal of an interview that occurred in mid-October. If that’s not accurate (and it actually was a different date), I apologize and certainly did not mean to mislead anyone if that’s truly not accurate.

        With respect to the dates, you’re correct in that they don’t matter. I wanted to highlight that there is new information (and maybe hints) with the book and the Nightline piece. The book around the end of a search season and the news piece just released – searchers have time in the off season to ponder and build new solves.

        We all have fun here exchanging ideas, some light-hearted fun, memes, jokes, and stories of our search trips in the chase. I am glad that we all have a place to do that here on Dal’s site.

        I know my family has enjoyed the chase and, if not for FF, we would not have traveled and vacationed in the Rockies (at least not where we did). It has been a truly challenging and rewarding experience. Most searchers and the family they bring along with them would say the same thing. It has allowed some of us adults to be children again.

        How the media handles news reports and the unfortunate accidents that have occurred is disappointing. We can only continue in the spirit of the chase as it was meant to be for all of us.

        Thank you for your post Cynthia.

      • Cynthia, imo the chase has brought thousands upon thousands joy, purpose, healing; and has let many experience pain and loss – aka life; isn’t that what is what life is? The chase is deeply personal for most I think, deeply spiritual for all I hope, and sensational for only a few I pray.

        Yet, each matters equally in my opinion. Unfortunately the news lately tends to focus on the pain and loss. And a few searchers have stooped to levels that make me sad as a human and woman. But we know that the pain and loss and stooping to low levels is the minority. I hope as humans we don’t dismiss either, because all of ittis true to life, yes? That is the true beauty of the human experience that Forrest has shown us through the chase, yes?

        I’ve enjoyed your stories and watching you chase! Thanks for all you do. May the chase end on a positive note for all!

      • Cynthia,

        Though some news outlets are getting incrementally better at showing good news stories, it’s the bad, tragic, and emotional news that sells air time mostly IMO. Sure there are exceptions, but it’s the negative side that sells to the public at large. Again, JMO.

        The human interest side of The Chase will only unfold after the chest has been found and the successful searcher tells his/her story assuming they actually want to share it. Otherwise I’m afraid the news will be a single event headline of sorts and that’s it. Unless of course a legal battle follows which is what I think they would want.

        Sorry for being so negative but we’ve mostly stopped watching all the network/cable news feeds for that reason and now only watch the local Seattle news. CBS Sunday Morning being the BIG exception. They have some great human interest stories on that show and I would encourage folks to give it a try.


        • My family especially loved the program when Charles Kuralt was the host. We look forward to the end of the program to see what nature clip they’re going to show.

          • Yeah, we enjoyed Charles Kuralt too. Though not a news program, we also love watching NOVA on PBS. Just recently they had an episode titled Bird Brain if memory serves. What a remarkable and entertaining show about their intelligence, their ability to reason out a puzzle and use logic to solve it, and how social behavior helps them learn. If you missed it, you might be able to stream it online.


        • CBS Sunday Morning did a piece on the hunt a couple years ago. That piece is on the Media page of this blog along with dozens of others that have been filmed over the years.

    • James,

      This is not hard. Here’s a simple 3-step process I use.

      Step 1 – go to http://www.tarryscant.com/search.php

      Step 2 – type “marry” in the search box

      Step 3 – read the results and see if you can find what you are looking for. In this case, it should be the first item.

      Not all tarry scant searches are this easy and at times will take some effort on your part to locate, but it is something you need to learn to do for yourself.


      • Thank’s Pinatubocharlie, It worked. I tried to use to many words before. Much appreciated!

        • Your welcome James.

          It’s a powerful tool but when using it you must chose search words wisely. And if you aren’t aware, you can even search using partial words, but the number of hits will increase which sometimes is not a bad thing.

          For example, try searching for “ill” and see how many hits you get.

          Enjoy…….. pinatubocharlie

          • It’s always fascinating for me to read how people are using tarryscant.

            For written content from Forrest (e.g. answers to questions on Jenny’s site) we have left misspellings intact. For example FF wrote “proximaty” in one answer. We left the misspelling since we are not sure if it was a simple error, or intentional.

            Good luck with your searches!!

            Cris (admin @ tarryscant)

  49. If I find the chest, I will let Forrest know (or his estate) so that the chase can be called off and people don’t look for something that has been found.

    I would wait and decide what to do with it after talking to a good lawyer and CPA.

    I would not tell anyone where it was or how it was solved unless I was paid a huge sum of money and was able to remain anonymous. There is no reason to tell other searchers where it was, only that it was found so that they don’t waste time or get hurt looking for nothing.

    I would not leave anything behind, it makes no sense since the chase is called off.

    • I would say the chest was empty when I found it, except for a few pieces of gold and the bracelet. I would auction those pieces and the chest off, donate the proceeds to Denver Museum of Science for tax breaks, bracelet to FF and sell the gold piece by piece…way under the radar.

  50. Here’s a few pictures of Grayling Creek (start of 2018 season).

    Shot gun start (starting line):


    This is right after the start – view looking into the canyon from the starting line:


    And – this is after the lead searchers make there way further down the canyon:


  51. I know Tim likes the number 3, so if he and others who share that interest are looking for some ammunition for their theories, look no further than the chapter “Algernon’s Relative” in Once Upon a While. Count the 3’s. Coincidence you say? Not so fast. Go back and count the capital letter C’s (3rd letter of alphabet). If you don’t have the book, you can read Passages 3 (3 again?! Llink for Passages is at top right of this page). C is not a common letter, though it is quite a bit more common as the first letter of a word (occurs about 5.2% of the time).

    If you’re still unsure whether C-3 is significant, you might question why it’s capitalized twice in aide-de-camp on page 129, and why Coffee is capitalized on page 130. I wonder if Forrest’s editor cringed when he wouldn’t allow those to be corrected (IMO)?

    • C3P0 is the hint. P is the 21st letter, divisible by 3. Or coords 33 210.
      All I know is c3P0 should have died in TLG and not Snoke, the evil lives. Wait what were we discussing again.

  52. Just letting you guy’s know that there is a Loch Leven not far from where I live (INTERESTING)

    Have I missed something, how did Loch Leven get brought up in the conversation?

    Ronnie the Scot

    • Hey Ronnie,
      As a type of Brown Trout introduced to the Yellowstone area in the 1890’s. This used to be explained on the Wikipedia page for Brown Trout but someone removed it about two years ago. Most likely a treasure hunter protecting their “Home of Brown”. I am glad I got the info prior to that.
      Now I am searching for the Brown Trout introduction sites in New Mexico . I think there is one in my search area but want to confirm that and it is not easy info to find.

  53. In the recent interview FF said:
    “Grizzly Bears alone are something to think about”. Does that mean that the treasure is where Grizzly Bears reside? What is their range?

        • I think if you want to conclude the grizzly comment is a hint, then you need to consider what is a realistic threat and what isn’t.
          The last confirmed sighting of griz in Colorado was back in 1979. Hardly seems like 1 bear is something to worry about.

          That being the case, if this is a hint, then you would eliminate NM, CO, and most of southern Wy as search areas since there is realistically no threat in those areas. Seems unlikely to me that F intended to narrow it down that much.

          • You are absolutely correct and the grizzly comment was the best hint yet as long as it was a hint. If it was, then it is in Wyoming or Montana

          • there are approx. 600 in Montana, and 800 in Wyoming with most of those 800 in the Yellowstone-Grand Teton area.
            The name the scientists call it is the North American Brown Bear.
            If the Grizzly Bear is the Home of Brown, then Wyoming must be the place.

          • Colo…It seems no matter what anyone points out or offers up there will always be a counter argument/point. That is the nature of the beast…

          • Dont put in below Wyoming but if it narrows it down to 2 states, that would be very helpful to the searcher

  54. I remember hearing or reading, Mr. Fenn saying, that “a little imagination” was need, to solve the poem. It seemed to me that the poem was “all imagination”, with little or nothing to build on. So, the only conclusion I could come to was, that imagination was leading me down the same path as the poem. The primrose path, a path to no where. I think “a little imagination” is misleading, I think a microscopic amount of imagination could solve it.

    • Good Morning James;

      I know that you are just being a bit funny, and that is great 🙂
      BUT, in all seriousness, please do not discount Imagination. Imagination will let you see a number of things in the poem, that “Knowlede” (sic) will not disclose. All from a guy that will let his imagination run wild, if not kept in tight rein – JDA

      • Hi JDA, Mr. Fenn did say, (paraphrasing) that logic could solve the poem. Combing logic and imagination, the only conclusion I can come to, is that all of the clues, are at WWWH. He did say to marry the clues to “a place” on the map, and place is singular.

        • James;

          If everything is at “A” place (wwwh) how do you interpret “Take it in the canyon down – Not far, but too far to walk.” – Don’t these lines imply a distance of some kind? “From there it’s no place for the meek” –
          “From there” – doesn’t this also imply travel?
          “The end is ever drawing nigh” – again, doesn’t this imply travel or distance?

          You are taking one sentence – two words – “A place” and interpreting it one way, and discounting all of the obvious indicators of distance and travel. Hard for me to understand your logic – But that is just me – JDA

          • I agree, JDA. There’s another problem from the puzzle designer’s point of view. If you have a single place, someone could just get lucky. That’s much less likely if there are eight, nine, or ten places to find.

          • JDA,

            ““From there” – doesn’t this also imply travel?”

            I believe it is possible to interpret that as a warning to not go “there”.
            Not that I ascribe to that interpretation, but I consider it possible.

          • Hi JDA, Mr. Fenn said he wrote a “poem” , that contained nine clues. He never said it was a set of instructions.

          • And he has never said anything about there being any directions either.

            He says Clues
            He says Places


          • Over @ Jenny’s in reply to ” Outta Here”
            ” Stop arm chairing that thing to death and get out there in the trees where the box is, but before you go, look at the poem as if it were a map, because it is, and like any other map, it will show you where to go if you follow its directions.”

          • And “directions” are indistinguishable from “instructions” when you are hunting for treasure.

          • James;

            Here is a quote from Forrest:

            “Only the nine clues, in consecutive order, in the Poem, when understood and followed, leads a person precisely to the chest.” That sure sounds like a set of instructions to me – but that is just me I guess – JDA

          • @JDA,
            The supposed ‘quote’ that you posted above is from Jenny Kile’s – Top Ten Facts.

            5) Only the nine clues, in consecutive order, in the Poem, when understood and followed, leads a person precisely to the chest.

            I have copy/pasted it exactly as it shows there….. I bring to your attention that she did not place ‘quotation marks’ on it, did not claim it was a quote, nor did she provide any reference to where, if it was a quote, that said quote could be found……Do you have solid evidence that proves your assertion that it is a quote??

            I believe that it is Jenny;s opinion, nothing more. I will post a question to her, on that thread, asking her to please verify if it is a substantiated remark by Forrest, or if it is her opinion.

            Thank you for your time.

          • Loco;

            You could be correct. I went to “Tarryscant.com and got it. I did not look at it looking for quotation marks. I “Assumed” that it was a quote. If I was mistaken, I apologize. JDA

          • thanks ‘pd’,

            But, I’m aware of that quote and it is not what JDA wrote.

            your reference/quote:
            That’s right joseph, you should start with the first clue and follow the others consecutively to the treasure. Hints in the book are not that organized.f

            JD’s quote(?): Only the nine clues, in consecutive order, in the Poem, when understood and followed, leads a person precisely to the chest.


          • JDA,

            LOL!! No prob!! I wasn’t really hammerin’ on ya, just pointing out that ya gotta real careful so as to not git snakebit!

            Good Luck to Ya!! 🙂 ……loco

          • Loco;

            Not pickin a fight – just curious. Do you “Fact Check” every post if it contains a quote? Must keep you pretty busy. JDA

          • Loco;

            P.S. If you do “Fact Check” every quote – what is your resource? Do you have your own database, or do you use someone else’s? If someone else’s how do you know that it is accurate? If your own, the same question.

            You are providing a good service, none of us what bad info out there. I am just curious. If you compiled the database, that must have taken a lot of time and effort. Just curious – JDA

          • Geez JDA,
            Seems to me Loco was given ya a hand and not letting an opinion run the muck like, so many times in the past, with misquotes. It also seems you have done the same with other postings…
            Ya being hypocritical when you said ~’ Do you “Fact Check” every post if it contains a quote? Must keep you pretty busy. JDA’ …seeing you have done the same to many.

            Lets walk down memory lane, shall we… a child can walked to the chest has been posted as factual… but fenn corrected that himself. A flash light and a sandwich are clues… yet again, fenn corrected that himself.

            When a posting comes out, and an other show the post to be incorrect or slightly off, and provide the actual quote, Ya’d think you would be better appreciative when someone does.
            I’d be more upset about the site you got it from [yet not being an actual quote] rather than someone who is attempting to help.
            Or maybe feeling a little stupid for not fact checking your source.
            But even now when it stands corrected… I can guarantee your ” ” quoted statement will be used by another as factual in the future, Like many other misquoted statements have.

            Thanks loco… at least from me.

          • Noted: apparently ken “appreciates it” too.
            Sorry ken, have been typing when you posted… and thanks PD for your post as well.

          • Seeker;

            Sorry if I came across as critical. Loco provides a very good service, and I thank him for it. As I said, we want factual info out there.

            If I came across the wrong way, I apologize – Sorry all. JDA

          • Lugnutz:

            “And he has never said anything about there being any directions either.”

            Would you care to retract that?

            “Stop arm chairing that thing to death and get out there in the trees where the box is, but before you go, look at the poem as if it were a map, because it is, and like any other map, it will show you where to go if you follow its directions.”

            [The poem] will show you where to go if you follow its directions. More succinctly: The *poem’s* directions. No word substitution. That’s straight English. The poem is a sequential set of instructions that must be followed in order. Any other interpretation stretches credulity with respect to there not being any “red herrings.”

            What some people don’t seem willing to accept is that as soon as Forrest said the clues must be followed in any kind of order, the whole theory that all the clues could be co-located got sent up the river. If all the clues pointed to the same location, the whole notion of sequential-ness would be meaningless.

        • Hi James: sure, “place” is singular, but it could still refer to a very large area. For instance, “Yellowstone” is a place; Colorado is a place.

    • James…Fenn has used that word from early on. This may be one of the earliest times he used the word “imagination”.
      Santa Fe Radio Café 10/25/2010
      Mary-Charlotte Domandi
      Fenn: That’s true. I’ve taken this treasure chest to a very secret, and very special place and I’ve hidden it there. And there are nine clues in my book. You have to read the book. But if you have an imagination, and you have a pretty good mind, and you have a little bit of resolve, you can find that treasure chest. First one to it can have it.
      This was just prior to the launch of TTOTC I believe at Collected Works…
      Imagination may be important…but I think there may be a very fine line there. Simple…comes to mind.

      • Ken;

        Are you saying that one needs to be a bit “Simple Minded” to solve this thing? YEA I do have a chance – 🙂 JDA

      • Or, as my drill sergeant used to say – Simplify – Simplify – Oh wait, that was Simper Fi – Simper Fi – 🙂 JDA

        • JDA
          You must of had a nice drill instructor, mine just said get in his sand pit or quarter deck.

      • The word “simple” is being used a lot lately. When
        I think of “simple”, I sometimes think of “Simple
        Simon met a pieman going to the fair” . . . And we
        should know by now that FF has talked about pie(s).
        I think it’s hinting. Sometimes a pizza is called a pie.
        That’s a free hint from me, don’cha know. All IMO.

    • I can’t imagine taking on this Chase without accepting that Imagination is an obvious part to interpreting the lines of the poem.

      I don’t get where there would be any argument about it.

    • Kelly- ive got a pretty good imagination if i do say so myself. how about this…imagine a beige base camp, a tan tent, or a chocolate canopy. a burnt umber umbrella or maybe a mud mansion. and think about a chalet of crimson. a tawny teepee.
      for the home-less Brown….a cardboard box. a sienna shelter. maybe a plywood pad. how about a time-share tarp?

  55. What about this as a thought – Fenn narrowed the (4) state search area with the words: “Begin it where warm waters halt” and “Put in below the home of Brown”

    WWWH = the Northern border of the state of New Mexico. Warm Waters here referring to the Department of Game and Fish designation as Trout vs. Non-Trout waters.

    BTHOB = Somewhere south of the Margaret Brown Museum in Colorado?

    That means between central(ish) Colorado and the southern border (which borders with New Mexico)


  56. Here is a list of WWWH that may be of use to searchers both new and old. I have compiled these over the last 4 years and have used them in a physical geography class as a teaching tool :

    The continental divide : fits multiple locations and provides an axis.
    The 45th parallel: also many locations and true on a global time scale
    Old Faithful: Warm water standing at attention: March march and Halt
    Ancient ocean beaches: Often at high altitude some standing at attention
    Thermal spring to colder river : so the temperature changes to cold
    Extinct geothermal features: Plenty of those
    The caldera rim : perfect for Yellowstone or New Mexico
    Orographic Precipitation: My favorite. Also many locations

    FF described warm as ‘comfortable” in a question response so that fits nice with ancient oceans that were tepid and teeming with life. And also fits the hot springs.

    HOWEVER: What I have learned is that the word “warm” may not be just temperature. Has everyone made a false assumption from the start ?
    In my search area I was stunned at sunset one evening by the amazing color of the water due to its heavy silt loads. The warm golden flow before me was so stunning I photographed it but I was so much in awe I had my camera on black and white setting.
    There are more to list but this is something to give new searchers a head start.
    Best of luck to all.

    • Bradley

      I have had the idea that “heavy loads” could simply mean silt being carried in the water. My solve area depends on that idea quite “heavily”


      • Hey Franklin,
        It is a fishing/river thing these silt loads. At my spot I filled up one of my clear water jugs with the silty water to see if it would settle out with just gravity. It did not come out of suspension after 5 days of sitting there as the silt was so well dissolved .

        • Bradley

          I did a similar thing at my search area. The creek I have been exploring has such thick silt that it will not dissolve, or separate. You cannot see down in the water, even in deeper holes and pools. I realized as I walked up the creek, there was water higher in elevation as I went up, and the water carried heavy loads of silt. Now I just have to figure out the blaze.


          • hehehe…as difficult it may seem…..put yourself in my shoes.

            Sometimes it took months of figuring out just one line inthe poem….others….well…I’m still working those angles. It’s tough.

            I didn’t put down things, because I knew it would lead me astray. I still looked…..there is alot of information inthe poem and with FF hints.

            Are they vague….FF’s poem is vague. Touche! :o)

            My mind is crude…..rough in many ways, I’m not sure if I willl ever truly figure out the meanings in the poem……but me being here, I think, maybe…..I too am “giving a smile to a homely girl” in Fenn fashion. Who knows.


            Good luck Franklin…..it really is fun to be in the hunt.

            Although I’m not the brightest bulb in the bunch – by far – I still keep digging.

            Being positive…..I’ve been through to much to think any other way.

  57. Hi All, Thanks for your thoughts, all good points. One of the first ideas I had, was that all of the clues, could be in a small area, like Mr. Fenn’s 2.7 acers. But then, I went with the distance between clues ideas, that the Poem seems to suggest, and that didn’t seem to make things any clearer. I would just always find myself coming back to the starting point, without having made any progress, and finally decided, maybe I should just stay there.

    • Hi James…You have been here for a long time and I always pay attention when you put something out there to think about. Ideas are just that…ideas…some good… some better…some not so better.
      I remember something Fenn said in an interview…maybe with Preston…It was something like….*A couple of years ago I didn’t know how to spell Arthur. Now I are one.*
      My point…I forget now…but one never knows when that moment is gonna happen….
      Thanks for sharing.

      • I Tarry scanted it to keep the critics at bay…
        It was Collected Works video 10/23/2013
        ” Five years ago….”

        • ken,

          That’s a great find and one I was not aware of. If my interpretation of what I think is a big hint is correct, then it serves to support a few things I have found in the poem recently.

          Thank you very much for sharing!


        • They were speaking about Fenn being considered eccentric…and especially a writer.
          Just Tarry Scant… “Arthur” and go down to the CW video transcript…fun stuff to remember.

          • When I had listened to the video when I began the Chase, I always thought he said “author”, but with his southern drawl. According to Tarry Scant, it appears this isn’t true.

          • he did actually say Arthur…
            That is why I mentioned it…it is another one of his little play on words.
            It will be something like this that opens a door somewhere…I think.

          • That’s just ff trying g to be cute or clever. I have hear this line used with other occupations, when the person was joking around but proud to be in that occupation.

  58. I’ve said before guy’s that as you all know Forrest is a highly intelligent human being.

    The person that solves this thing doesn’t have to have the same high intelligence, but needs to think how he thinks.

    If any of you guy’s can do this mixed with a little bit of imagination then I have no doubt that that person will solve the poem and find the T..C

    I have got a hunch but I could be wrong that the word combination comes in to this.

    Ronnie the Scot

    • If it requires an IQ as high as FF’s to solve, count me out as my elevator stops near the middle floors.

      It’s interesting though that FF seems to come back to mention “simplify” – that seems to lend itself to a more practical / pragmatic approach.

      • Any opinions on why FF says that no one will find the TC without starting/knowing wwwh? Which implies if the searcher is correct in identifying say clues 2-4 without wwwh they have no chance? Thx

        • In my solve there is no way you could get the correct 2nd to 4th clue without the correct WWWH–Just one man’s opinion

  59. I think many hints that Fenn gives us are like the word imagination: I’m a G in a T I’m on. Look at the big picture letters.

    It’s the same with Indulgence: In dull G cents (or ants)

    TTOTC is full of such hints.

    • Like G “on” E. AL “on” E, “in” THERE. “the grale”.
      riches new and old= tree, H “in” T of tree= three.
      Yup, there are a lot of examples in the book and in the poem.
      Like KNOWLEGE. know lege= lege is short for legend. This is what he considered Skippy as. Like a god to him. If you “skip” P, leaves you with “Y”. A leg end is a “foot”. Find out the letter value of “Y” will give you how tall “Y” is in feet. (7′). IMO, it has to do with the shadow, stand up the “Y” at a certain location, the sun light hitting that 7′ “Y” will create a shadow a certain amount of feet. (okay, sunlight at a 5 degree elevation hitting a 7′ “Y” will create a shadow 80′ long) Indiana Jones in the map room.
      Yes, many clues and hints to figure this way John, I agree. Can you get Southwest from line 17? or Sowyst?
      It is dangerous to play the “sounds like” game though. Could lead down a very deep. black, rabbit hole. But when things are so obvious, you have to address them, any angle…..

  60. Cynthia, considering all the time and effort you put in so far, I would not give up on NM yet. You should go over your old solves and check within 200 feet (on a map) radius of places likely to have had the chest. You never know.

    It is very easy to miss something, for example last year in June my partner (who lives in WY) went to search a specific spot at Sarcophagus Butte. It is about 100 feet tall, and you can stand right next to it, even walk around it and see nothing. My partner climbed up it (the south side can be walked up, if you are careful). Guess what… When he arrived at the top, he went to the edge and “looked down”, he spotted a tiny cave behind some huge rocks. I say cave, but it was really only about 10 feet inside the butte. He went down along the ledge, behind the rocks and inside the nook. He found an old campfire and some tools, looked to be decades old. Some carvings on the wall, but no chest. We figure that at some time a sheep herder probably went in there for shelter. It was very cool, and from up there you get a nice view of Castle Gardens.

    Here is the deal though, you absolutely can NOT see that cave unless you took the time to go up. It cannot be seen from the road (1/2 mile away) or anywhere on the ground, including mud city. To make it even more interesting, my partner is 3rd generation Wyoming. His father and grandfather both worked at Lucky MC before it was shut down and reclaimed. When his dad worked there, my partner (as a teen) would sometimes play around there. He never knew about the cave!

    Incidentally… Remember the “if your solve was in the desert, get a new solve” comment by FF? I am certain that was directed at me because he posted that on MW’s site the day after I just got done discussing my solve with him in email. I wanted to know if the chest was ever there because the solve seemed rock solid. To paraphrase his response (he did not say yes or no), it was “Look around you, are you in the mountains?” I replied “Well, it is part of the rockies”, his reply was “No, you are in the desert”. I disagreed, it is an arid plane, the only “desert” in WY is the Red Desert. I let it go and just assumed it never was there, my solve was wrong, why argue with the man who hid the chest! LOL… Next day, bam, the desert comment. The only reason I am repeating it here is so people know that he considers that whole area the desert. That rules out mud city, Lucky MC, the Butte, The alien/stone henge symbol east of it, and castle gardens.

    BTW… I am back in the mountains. LOL

    • Thanks, Wy, for sharing this. Yep, you were lucky ff told you your spot was wrong, in a round about way. That way you can re-think your solve and move into the mountains / forrest, and trees. I know a searcher or two who still search their same spot in NM in the desert, despite ff publicly coming out and saying “not in the desert”. Some folks just won’t listen… I don’t understand them. But I’m done trying to change their minds… less competition, you know.

      • One man’s desert is another man’s paradise.

        Just for starters, Missoula is High Desert.

        It would be cool if someone that is talented like Jeremy P could develop an updated version of Fenn’s Map.

        The update would only show a shaded area above 5k and below 10.2k, no deserts, remove the Rio Grande, beginning 8.25 miles north of SF. Then shade another color for known caves and mines, reservation lands and private fenced ranches. The new map would be less than half of the current map.


    • “Occasionally I forward parts of emails to Dal for use in his blog to add human interest for others who are in the search, but I never would if it made a difference or in any way might point someone toward or away from the treasure. Dal is also a searcher. I am determined to stay aloof of providing any additional clues that are useful. Everyone has the same information to work with. Some few have stopped within several hundred feet of the correct location, and then passed it by. I said in my book that the solution will be difficult but not impossible. If it was easy anyone could do it. Whoever finds the treasure will mostly earn it with their imagination. I have done only a few things in my life that were truly planned. Hiding the treasure chest is one of them. And at the end, the one who finds the gold will not feel lucky, but instead, will ask himself,
      ”what took me so long?”

      I posted this because I think fenn relates the same ideas concerning all e-mails. But even so, logically, when fenn made the statement [ a while back ] about what he would see and smell if standing at the chest should have been a fundamental image of the area. Just because We the People didn’t give an a area a name, such as a desert by definition, if you don’t see trees and animals and mountains near by… ya mite jut’ be ina desert area.

      You said; ‘Remember the “if your solve was in the desert, get a new solve” comment by FF? I am certain that was directed at me because he posted that on MW’s site the day after I just got done discussing my solve with him in email.’

      I think, all fenn did was reinsert the idea [via e-mail] to you of what was previously stated publicly… mountains, trees, animals, the smell of pines etc. By saying you are “certain” fenn was giving you something directly imply’s he was directly help you… It kinda sends a bad message that some few searchers might receive information the rest may never know about. Personally I think it was just a coincidental timing of your e-mail during the time fenn was considering to give comments about resent event of searchers and places they should have been ~ in search of the trove.
      Not under water
      Not in a desert
      Not in a cave, tunnel, mine
      Not in a graveyards… yet some still think a cemetery is still in play… ya can’t fix stupid.

      I think fenn attempted many time to [ and I’ll use the word ] hint at what he has also stated… The chest is not in a dangerous place… by reasonable definition of what ‘safe’ means. I’m not knocking what you believe… I just think it can lead to others thinking, fenn is handing some folks information that could help. But at times we forget whats has been told many time prior.

      End of commentary…

      • **** “Remember the “if your solve was in the desert, get a new solve” comment by FF?” ****

        The same week that Rev Wallace fell into the Rio Grande, a father and son hiking in Carlsbad NM died of heat exposure (100+ degree temps last June).

        Not Chase related (and south of the Chase map), but it WAS a notable story in the outdoor, Nat’l Park, and New Mexico communities at the exact same time as the Paris Wallace story. I certainly assumed at the time that it influenced that part of ff’s Safety First cautions.


        • State Police Chief Kassetas was filmed by Good Morning America calling Forrest Fenn to ask him to call off the Chase after Pastor Wallace was found in Pilar NM.
          Fenn: ” I’m not going to give a clue to help people find the treasure. I’m going to give a clue to try to keep them out of trouble-to make them safer.”

          • Afternnon ken.

            I agree…..safety is priority one out there.

            FF did say it was for everyone….no age limit. I think he built that into the hunt.

            But….just because I put it to task….not everyone has my mindset…..because many haven’t lived in the city and are experienced out there.

            Stay safe.

      • Seeker-
        The difference is that Cynthia hangs out with Forrest… She shares things that she has heard Forrest say…
        Her info is often based on what she heard the person who hid the chest say to her.
        Your’s is based on conjecture and opinion.
        I think it is well worth everyone’s time to listen and consider what Cynthia offers.
        I know her to be honest and forthright. She has no interest in confusing searchers or sending folks off in the wrong direction.
        For my money, she is a fountain of info and we are lucky she feels like sharing what she knows on this blog.

        In other words…just shut-up and listen..

      • Hi Seeker – a response to this part of your post: “It kinda sends a bad message that some few searchers might receive information the rest may never know about.”

        Well, like it or not, whenever Forrest emails individuals privately, he is giving them information that the rest of us may never know about. I harbor no illusions that Forrest treats everyone equally. Like any normal person, he is going to “like” some searchers more than others. And it wouldn’t surprise me if he gives some of them private little hints (though you’ll note that that hasn’t helped anyone find the chest yet). I don’t worry about it. Any such hints are in my opinion a tiny fraction of the total number of *public* hints he has handed out to everyone.

    • I, too, spent a couple summers in the desert, although I felt I was still in the mountains according to one of the maps I did research on. Could I see trees? Yes. Animals? Yes. Everything seemed to have made sense to me, but the rug was pulled from under and I landed quite hard on my bottom. I can only laugh at myself of how I interpreted things. I wouldn’t trade the experience for the world.

  61. Winter Thoughts II will be at a web site near you soon, and Dal has received a brass marker pic from 1868/1926, it is the Supreme Court Settlement of the 37th parallel, AKA one of the Border Settlement markers of the suit between Colorado and New Mexico from that year. I filmed those videos from very near that marker, inside the NM line, there is no human trail to that point at 10,090′ altitude, the Pine River is 1500′ below that spot, inside New Mexico, I am 500′ vertical feet above the RR Tracks. Now what could be within 200′ of this spot? I will let you know soon.


    • Hay, those are great photos. The Coyote(?) leaping on its prey is really dynamic! You also managed better Grizzly photos than I did – do you have a very long lens, or are you just really brave???

      • Some appear to be black bears, and one looks definitely like a grizzly, but I’m never absolutely certain. The one between the two tree trunks looks big enough to be a grizzly, but its facial features are less grizzly-like, and I can’t see whether there’s a hump. Is there a sure-fire way of telling the species apart?

        • The only Griz is the one in the tall yellow grass. That was shot in pretty close range near the Upper Falls access.
          I’ve seen a lot of grizzly there, but hardly any good pictures of them.

      • Thanks

        I used a 300mm, which is 450mm on my DSLR

        Maybe a little brave. But very cautious, and always have a quick access to my vehicle.

    • Hello HaydukeCC. You took great photos of Yellowstone. Where did you spot the moose? I haven’t seen one in the park for quite some time.

      • Thanks, pdenver,

        I took the moose shot a few months ago outside the park, north of West Yellowstone, just downstream from Baker’s Hole, where the Madison crosses the highway.
        I go to that area, and sometimes up Grayling Creek in the evenings looking specifically for moose. I have better luck there than the areas I frequent inside the park.

        • Thank you for your reply, HaydukeCC. My family and I may need to check the area this year. It seems that ever since the ’88 Yellowstone fire, the moose are scarce to be seen. I believe the last time we saw moose in/near Yellowstone was near Moose Falls.

  62. Vox,

    I liked your post cause I also watched it recently. If you watched the unabomber series you should also watch Wormwood on Netfilx. Coincidentally it is about the same project MK Ultra from the CIA in the 50’s. I have a few friends from the UK and they also share the same skepticism from all government secret agencies and always ask themselves the same questions that you asked. Always on the lookout and guarding from anybody trying some ‘mind control’ on them. Lol… I mean, we should all be aware of those things and know it is real.

    Is the Chase a social experiment? Of course it is in a way, but by FBF not the CIA. Forrest is a very deep observer of people. In his writings and interviews you can see the kind of details he remembers of those people that have been around him all his life and they way he describe them. His mental palace is immense. Also, one of his motivations was about getting people out in the wilderness and getting kids away from machines. Getting the the unemployed redneck on a pickup with his wife and kids out to look for it.

    Now close to 8 years later, how did that play out? Fenn says he received thousands of emails from families thanking him for getting them out in the Rockies. So he was successful in that regard. Taking young ones away from technology for a moment while with their parents botg, yes, but is there anybody out there under the age of 21 actively searching? There must be, but I haven’t read from someone that age posting here or somewhere else.

    Back to Kaczynski, my take-away from that show related to the Chase, other than his cabin being in Montana 🙂 was the way he was identified. His brother recognized the ideals and writing form of Ted by reading his manifesto once it got published. Also, the FBI was able to create a profile on TK based on his writings as well.

    So we have these manifestos from Forrest, his books from the ttotc to ouaw that we need to use to identify 9 clues in his poem, and that knowledge will take us to his treasure (cabin in the woods) somewhere north of Santa Fe.

    • Thanks for the thoughtful response, Oz10. The part about recognition of a mental “fingerprint” certainly resonates with me.

      But beyond the encouragement to experience nature – which I think has succeeded wildly among those willing to “get out there,” I have wondered about deeper motivations behind the Chase, and also the long-term effect on different searcher personalities.

      As I said, these were just musings on a dreary weekday as we all endure a long wait…

      • Yes Vox, that mental ‘fingerprint’ is what this is all about. Is it in the story telling, adjectives, nouns? Word associations?

        • You’re talking to the wrong guy, really, Oz, because I chose not to use the books. But I think that fingerprint is pretty much everywhere. And that’s what makes it so difficult, IMO. All I can say is, do what the Major is telling you to do – or else!

  63. Well, I don’t consider FF’s objective of getting more people to experience Nature any sort of “brutal (and possibly CIA inspired) social experiment”. To the contrary, it’s rather noble IMO. It’s not the TC, it’s the Chase, that matters.

    But since you ask, yes you do need to be “on guard”. Specifically, study up on leave-no-trace and minimal impact backcountry ethic before heading out. The wilderness retains its wildness best with the least human impact.

    • …also, nothing of this places any “responsibility on the creator.” All participants engage voluntarily and are wholly responsible for their own acts.

    • Lol! No neither do I. I was contrasting not conflating in the early part my post. The parallel I saw was with regard to the way people become so deeply invested in something that it has a measurable effect on their psyche – which raises all sorts of questions.

  64. ken, is not about sensationalizing or exploiting a tragic story. It is about looking into what the police and FBI do to find these guys, and learning how to recognize certain psychopathic traits they share. We need to be aware of human behavior and maybe we can help catch them before they strike. Lets not forget that Kaczynski, McVeigh, Paddock and many of these mass murderers are Americans just like you and me and always someone’s son, brother, neighbor, etc.

    • Yes…I agree to that Oz10 at a very base level. It is important to understand and formulate preventative measures. I definitely subscribe to that.
      I do not subscribe to putting these in depth studies/stories out there expressly for “entertainment purposes”. I feel that it seems to fuel more tragedy by “copycat” or viewers who may already be teetering on the edge just looking for an excuse to implode. It is a reality.
      At any rate…I hope more folks get involved in Fenn’s Chase and make nice memories…and maybe get lucky!

      • You may have a point about the copycat effect, ken – people seem ever more ready to implode these days. But hasn’t the dramatization of tragedy been with us for thousands of years? The medium changes, but the human story will always be “entertaining”.

  65. Unfortunately, most TV and cinema sensationalizes. But actually I found the Kaczynski serialization more thought-provoking than many such dramatizations. Digging around in the remnants of my memory, I could only recall knowing about the acts themselves, along with the capture and conviction. So understanding a bit about the man himself was the intriguing part. Human nature and its aberrations is very interesting, I think.

    I also found the railing against how industrial society has curtailed human freedom something that is as relevant today (perhaps even more so) as it was in the 70s. To think that the product of the last 300 years could just be cast aside is hugely naive, but that doesn’t make the topic of enslavement to the “machine” any less valid.

  66. I’ll take my leave of you all. It seems that a polite, intelligent, and probing discussion somehow became unacceptable. Good luck to everyone.

    • Dude, don’t leave based upon some limited interactions.

      You are one of the ones I like to read.

      • Thanks, Hay. I appreciate your comment very much. It’s just a matter of principle. I respect the fact that this is a private forum, and we are only here so long as the owner permits it, but I don’t wish to be muzzled, and would never ask for anyone else to be so censored. That has been happening too much in another place.

        Thanks to Dal and Goofy for maintaining this blog for so long. And it’s a good time for me to blog less and plan more!

        • I understand that completely. I am guilty of liking to banter more than I should in places like this, and I get off-topic easily.
          After a couple of my posts were removed, I moderated myself a lot more, and now I keep in mind that I value this place for what it is, and not worry much about what isn’t.
          Sifting through the detritus I find many enlightening posts, and really valuable feedback on my own outloud-thoughts.

          I hope you reconsider.

        • I understand vox.
          It seems strange that a poignant comment or quote gets deleted while others write endless paragraphs about leprechauns and such which gets ignored. While it can be frustrating at times, Dal and Goofy are trying to cut down on the ‘static’ that keeps filling threads and wasting blog space. Don’t take it personally. My plan is to read more and post less, and I advise you to stick around and do the same.

    • What the helx does that have to do with the chase!
      Dal, please get this this and others like this off the blog. They have no idea what the chase is about. Thanks.

      • ManOwar – I’ve been on board for a spell now and only check in now and then. When what has already been posted strikes a fancy, I simply chime in. Welcome!

  67. I’ve just had a crazy thought, however rather than dismiss it I thought that I would mention it just to get your thoughts on it.

    You’ve solved the poem, you’ve found the treasure chest, you open the lid of the treasure chest.

    And WOW the treasure chest is empty, no treasure just an empty treasure chest.

    Whats happened ? We’ll Forrest decided at the last moment to keep the treasure.

    He thought to himself that the chances are that no one will probably find it in his life time, so he will keep the treasure in his vault, but he hid the treasure chest.

    Here’s the dilemma who would actually own the treasure?

    Ronnie the Scot

    • Forrest would own it.

      But I don’t think that this would have ever entered his mind. If nobody finds it in his lifetime why hide an empty treasure chest?

      Eventually, if found, say 500 years from now, the legacy of the legendary Forrest Fenn would be that of a dishonest man, nobody wants that.

    • Forrest has stated that he would never go back to the hidey spot. So nothing to worry about, the treasure is still there in the treasure chest unless of course someone else has taken it out and left the chess.

  68. Numbers tell us things. It was still pretty early in the chase, when Mr. Fenn first said, that searchers had been within 500 feet of the chest. At that time, IMO, there were two main search areas, Taos, and Yellowstone. I think there is little doubt, that the vast majority of searchers went to, and have continued to go to Yellowstone. The mathematical odds, would put the searchers, that got the closest to the chest, in Yellowstone.

    • Are your thoughts due to that searchers posted more about Yellowstone rather than Taos at that time?

      • Hi pdenver, Yellowstone, has always been the most popular search area, because of all the references to it in TTOTC book.

        • Hello James. This would make sense to a possible Yellowstone connection. In Ms. Goldsmith’s United “Hemispheres” article, in part, ‘So I decided to go ahead and hide it somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe,’ I believe it may have been dated January 1, 2014, which would also point to searchers looking in New Mexico at the earlier time, too. Of course, this is before “Rocky Mountains” was mentioned. You may be correct that it was Yellowstone where the majority of the searchers were at that time.

  69. Just to give a quick scenario about the 200 feet/500 feet issue:

    What if Forrest hid the Treasure near the shoreline of a river—-for example, the BigHorn.

    Somebody e-mails him and says “Hi Forrest, just last week I went on a beautiful fly-fishing trip. We floated down the BigHorn river in Sourthen Montana, fishing for trout. I caught a whopper”.

    Well, Forrest now knows that someone (probably many) have been within 200-500 feet of the treasure—from their raft–and they “went right by it:”.

    We have a tendency to think of someone walking within 200 feet of the treasure—-when it is very possible they floated past it on a river, or drove past it on a highway—and if so, that’s like missing it by a mile.

    • One of the most interesting things about his comment to me is that he said they stopped within a few hundred feet before passing it by. Something made them stop. It could be catching a fish but I tend to think that they gave him a location they were at. This spot might be one of the clues but it could also be a turn in a trail or a confluence of rivers, ect. The point is I will be paying attention to locations that I would for some reason stop at and then continue and whether this location is a few hundred feet of a potential clue.

    • Hi, Sparrow, I’m not sure if you’re aware of the Lure Q&A from last May where Forrest talked about people being within 200 feet and 500 feet of the treasure. He said during an answer “The people that were within 200 feet didn’t know they were that close to the treasure and they walked right on by it.” You can hear this on Toby Younis’ site under The Lure Post Screening Q&A with Forrest Fenn Q2. So FF really did use the word “walked”. If you’re not familiar with the other Questions and answers from that night, you might want to listen to them all. They are really short and worth a person’s while, IMO.

    • Hi Cynthia/All: I’ve posted my transcript before of “The Lure” post-screening Q&A Question 2, but here it is again:

      “How do you know searchers have been within 200 feet of the treasure?”

      Forrest answers: “Well, because there … people have told me exactly where they were, and that’s the only reason I know. And, and, that 200 feet I think is pretty accurate. But there weren’t very many people within 200 … lots of people within 500 feet of the treasure. But, uh, the people that were with(in) 200 feet didn’t know that they were that close to the treasure, and they walked right on by. And of course I would never tell ‘em that, ‘cuz they’d, uh, they’d try to remember where they had been.”

      I think to be within 200 feet of the treasure, you MUST be walking. I believe the walking requirement disappears when you are as distant as 500 feet away.

      • Thanks, Zap. Do you have the transcript of the entire Q&A posted here somewhere? Like under The Lure Movie thread? I actually went to Toby’s link and verified I had it correct in my document of quotes prior to posting my comment, just to make sure I had it exact. If you previously made the whole thing available, that makes it much easier for next time and I would gladly copy yours.

        • Cynthia: here’s my transcript for Question 4:

          Question: “Has anyone determined the nine clues and what they represent?”

          Forrest answers: “Well, there’s about 250,000 people that think they have. And, uh, I don’t know that anybody has … has … has told me the clues in the right order. I think that part of the problem is they don’t … they don’t focus on the first clue. If you don’t know where the first clue is, you might as well stay home because you’re not … you’re not going to find the treasure chest. You can’t go out looking for the blaze and expect to find the treasure chest. There’s ten billion blazes out there. So you have to start with the first clue and let it take you to the blaze.”

          • “Well, there’s about 250,000 people that think they have. And, uh, I don’t know that anybody has … has … has told me the clues in the right order. I think that part of the problem is they don’t … they don’t focus on the first clue. If you don’t know where the first clue is, you might as well stay home because you’re not … you’re not going to find the treasure chest. You can’t go out looking for the blaze and expect to find the treasure chest. There’s ten billion blazes out there. So you have to start with the first clue and let it take you to the blaze.”

            Like other FF statements I find this quote peculiar. He seems to state that people are giving him correct answers to some clues but not in the right order and they are wrong about the first clue. Can someone come up with an example of how a person, not focusing on the first clue, give Fenn any correct clues, and give them to him out of order? If someone found the right canyon and HoB why would they need WWWH? If they were given to him out of order but the clues contiguous how did they do this? Perhaps this on the spot answer was simply communicated inaccurately. Are there other reasonable explanations?

      • Hi Cynthia: afraid I didn’t transcribe the entire Q&A session — just questions 2 and 4. The above is just the first third of the Q2 answer from Forrest. I have it all the way to “…. I kept … holding my breath in this movie – I thought somebody was going to find the treasure, and I … in this … in this movie, I tell you, there were people within 1700 miles of that treasure.” But I’m happy to send you what I’ve got on those two questions (Q4 being “Has anyone determined the nine clues and what they represent?”)

        • Thanks, Zap, I also recorded them on my phone but my Vimeo videos lack the professional quality that Toby has, and I didn’t transcribe the entire answers, just some of the goodies from Fenn.

    • IMO there are critical play(s) on words with these distances mentioned.

      My home’s front door is within 500 feet of the back door, and my kitchen is within 200 feet of the living room.

      Go figure…

      • Covert, How far is the blender of margaritas from my glass? I’m guessing less than 300 feet… a distance I can definitely walk or run to retrieve it! LOL.

        • Cynthia – that’s funny. Don’t run – and risk spilling the margaritas.

          ….I think that’s it…the key word: margaritas!

  70. Cynthia—-

    Thanks so much. If Forrest said “walked” then my theory doesn’t hold water. lol. I truly appreciate it and will listen to the Screening Q & A.

  71. Zap, Sparrow, Covert, and Cynthia, Aarons comment is worth a second glance “One of the most interesting things about his comment to me is that he said they stopped within a few hundred feet before passing it by. Something made them stop.” Omit the floated or fished on by part of what Aaron said and think about why Forrest has to walk several miles, why, but many have been within 500′? Some 200′ even? Were they in an Airport? Passangers, driving?

    The Barrier or Obstacle is what your imagination could and should conjure up, what object is it? A canyon rim, a wall, a moat, a cliff a blaze a glacier????

    Imagine it correctly and you could be a whole lot wealthier this summer.


    • Perhaps they stopped at a bathroom. That certainly would be enough to make me stop and go with confidence.

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