Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Forty Six

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401 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Forty Six

    • Michael Hendrickson,

      Maybe you should start your search in Scotland, as it is a lot smaller than the Rockies.

      You’ll be very surprised at how many gems are hidden in our hills.

      Ronnie the Scot

      • I’ll bring the tatties, you bring the neeps and we’ll go hunt a Haggis…. 🙂

        P.s. They really do have 2 legs on one longer than the other.

      • Scotland? I wouldn’t make it far from the distillery.
        But I may like to visit Orkney. It was the home of some of my ancestors.
        My sister went to Edinburgh and found what she described as one of the best Mexican Restaurants that she has ever found.
        My mother liked the neepes and tatties. and rumbledethumps.

        • Hi, Michael, …I’m 90 percent (on my mother’s side – DNA test ) from the Orkney archipelago, original home to the Vikings (not the football team). I’ve completed 3 BOTG searches in Wyoming. Man, I had a ball each time, and learned much. I’m now thinking that the poem is a kind of “What am I?” riddle. And, that’s the reason thousands of people haven’t been able to find the treasure after all these years. They’re looking at the “clues” as reality objects, not as leading to ways to answer a riddle. All IMHO. Good luck out there.

    • Michael,

      Search the Bear Creek trail bridge at S Wadsworth Blvd. and W. Yale Avenue. Bear Creek starts as a lake “warm waters” and is dammed and then the creek begins. The lake has 70 temps in summer and the creek temps stay in the 50s. There is a trail marked along bear creek. ”Found the blaze”. The trail is 14.5 miles long. “Not far but too far to walk”. Bear creek trail is also a popular bike trail. The trail and creek pass just south of Molly Brown’s Summer House. “Below the house of Brown”. I think he hid it he treasure under the trail bridge or under the overpass. This location is in Lakewood, Colorado “In the wood”. Wish I was in Colorado to look for myself. I’ve enjoyed doing my own research from home in Ohio. And I love the irony of the treasure being hidden in a more contemporary setting in the Rocky Mountains. Good luck! Would love your feedback!

      Emily

      • Emily,

        I would hate to burst your bubble, Denver metro is not in the Rockies as they are high plains which is next to the mountains. Just say’n 🙂

        • Also, Fenn stated unambiguously that WWWH is NOT ASSOCIATED WITH A DAM…also another searcher has provided a quote from FF in an email reply that the searcher was ‘in the desert, NOT in the Mountains’ despite being within the ‘rocky mountains’.

          That said, I too have considered some other locations that may not be ‘in the mountains’, but have since moved on because he has also said other things like “If I was standing where the chest is, I see trees, I see mountains, I see animals, I’ll smell wonderful smells of pine needles or pinyon nuts and sagebrush” I live very close to Bear Creek/lake/rec area…there is no way that area fits with the above quote…there are very few trees there, and zero pine trees. Not trying to bust your bubble, just keep doing your homework…check out the tarryscant.com site to look up actual quotes from FF, very useful tool. Good luck and keep thinking/searching

          • Kira: maybe he felt it would be redundant to mention seeing water since he finishes by saying he knows the chest is wet.

          • Kira,

            I’m not going on an exact quote from f, he said the TC is wet and something to the effect he knows it’s wet because of physics. Which tells me there is water and flowing. So if he didn’t say water in his description of what he sees really isn’t a issue.

            As always my opinion 🙂

          • “In your interview with New Mexico True Stories, you mentioned that you know that the treasure is wet. I checked out the date of that interview and it looks like you said that in a February, which could mean that you knew that it had snowed or rained at the site of the treasure chest, or simply because of higher water.

            Now we are in mid-summer, and if we assume that no storms have passed through recently, would you know that the treasure is wet now? ~Thanks, B

            Yes B, physics tells me the treasure is wet.”

    • Rob, I’m just seeing this now…

      This is one in hundreds of my architectural ways of looking at the poem… if 122.6 is close to being relevant, and I got those numbers specifically- can you give me a hint as to what they could possible mean? thanks, leigh.

  1. Aaron, from last odds n ends.
    Charlie, I think you are misunderstanding me. I never said I believe he did it all in one afternoon. Because he stated that it was done in one afternoon my point is that we do not know when he started. We only know when he was done.

    Yes, I know, I agree with you. 100%. I know you never said that. I think I just put up what the other poster said and maybe it was interpreted differently, but, I totally understand and agree with you. (mostly because you agree with me, 🙂

    Alsetenash, you said:
    In one of FF’s earlier interviews such as -Lorene Mills Interviews Forrest Fenn | May 13, 2011- he stated there is 225 gold coins in the chest. Later he said there are 265 gold coins in the chest. Anyone else notice this?

    Oh yes, he actually had another interview where he said 254 coins. I will have to search notes to get that interview to you. The thing is, in the book as you know, he states there are hundreds of gold coins. He then gives a couple of numbers of gold coins statements, and the finally sits on the 265 coins. And has been this amount ever sense. It’s like early on he was trying to remember what amount there was. Then finally remembered 265 and it has stuck. The question is, WHY? Why not just continue to say hundreds, he does that with gold nuggets, why not keep saying hundreds? And, why would he remember that he put that many in the chest, if it wasn’t important?

    When thinking about this, 265 has a reason for being kept. It is such a non hint/clue that when it does come into play, then such a meaningless hint can become a confirmation. Not confirmation bias, but a confidence tool. The fact that we all just don’t care, just say hundreds, gets the same effect, we understand it’s a lot. But we have had 265 etched into our minds in regards to chest contents.

    If you asked me, I would say that small piece of worthless comment is so meaningless, that if or when you see that number pop up in your solve, it will just make you smile, just like I am right now.:)

    Plus, so many will tell you it means nothing, because it is worthless to them, but the few of us that know why he has stuck with 265, becomes a very big hint. Even better is when you come to something in the solve of your poem and see a distance of 113′. You find no reason for it until you hear, “a word that is key”. The word “that” is in the poem once, and happens to be the 113th word. You start to understand the dual meanings of the comments he makes. And of course, you get your nay sayers. Which is always good.

    To answer your question “nash”, what you have noticed is pretty important. IMO, it is a distance. When and if you find it, the question you will ask yourself is, “how can that be?”, no way, that has to be by design. All because it actually is such a non/meaningless statement that dwells on 265. Who cares, right. lol, 🙂

    • Colokid, you are right, what happened to my spell checker. My brain is getting “chase hic-ups”. Almost sounds like I’m trying to start my own language. My index fingers are trying to type fast….

  2. Dodo said
    “now used as a noun…
    FF- “its not associated with construct or arrangement to plan; give a pattern or organization to, so dont go digging up any outhouses.”

    again i just shrug my shoulders and think – what is he talking about?”

    I would think there is a need to look into what construct, arrangement, and plan means inorder to fully understand what a structure is.

    • Kira- to me as a lifetime home builder myself, construct arrangement and plan are what i use to build a nest. believe me i am fully aware of what a structure is. and neither basement nor swimming pool are a structure. the home of Brown however IS a structure. to finish my thought put in below the home of Brown or any home for that matter is a basement or crawl space.

      to this day i do not understand human need to house excrement and urine. (outhouse)

  3. Brand spanking new here. Has anyone mentioned starting at Cold Springs CO, through Golden Gate Canyon, to Lair O’ The Bear Park? Put in below at Bear Creek past Devil’s Gulch to Red Rock Vista? Seems to fit the 9 clues, is just above 5000′ and is on his TFTW map.
    My third day of armchair searching and having a blast.

    • Randall
      Try googling area x plus Fenn or Forrest Fenn and see what comes up.
      I thought of iff the wall ideas and people have prior reviewed similar.
      Just because it was reviewed though, doesnt mean it was wrong, that person may have missed and substituted a clue.

    • “But I don’t want to go among the mad people” Alice remarked.
      “Oh you can’t help that “ said the cat.
      “We’re all mad here, I’m mad, youre mad”
      “How do you know I’m mad” said Alice.
      “You must be” said the cat
      “Or you wouldn’t have come here”

      • thanks Ronnie. I have a suggestion, how about a section for newcomers like me, since we are 7 years late to the chase. Recent news and tragedy have brought in new seekers. I guess Dal handles this?

        • Hi Randall and welcome to the Home of Dal (HoD).

          When I first learned of the Chase I quickly discovered Dal’s blog and concluded it was the one I wanted to follow. That was in August 2016. Being green I too didn’t know where to start, so I just picked Forrest’s Scrapbooks since they seemed interesting and as good a place to start as any. I read every one and all the thousands of searcher posts too.

          4 months later I finished the SBs and moved on to other areas listed on the blog, but only where Forrest himself was directly involved. It’s like drinking from a fire hose with an endless water supply, so I suggest you get organized and take good notes or else it will eventually all run together and turn to mush.

          IMO don’t take the words in the poem at face value. It looks simple, the words that is, but it’s very sophisticated and I believe extremely subtle hints are there for you to find if you persist. But be advised “the man” says don’t mess with his poem.

          Finally, and I don’t mean to sound like an over-bearing parent, but I would encourage you to try and avoid getting directly tangled up with some of the endless and seemingly nonsensical debates that pop up here on the blog from time to time.

          I follow most of what is said here, but I find my time is much better spent actually trying to analyze/study the poem, conduct research and put the pieces together that will hopefully lead me to solve the puzzle. Occasionally I post, but that’s just me.

          Good luck, have fun, and be prepared to do a lot of reading/studying. If nothing else, the education and the BOTG outdoors searching will be reward enough.

          Pinatubocharlie

      • Welcome aboard, Randall B. I would recommend starting with “Most Important Info” (see the right column toward the top of this page). There have been over 400,000 posted messages since Dal started this blog — a daunting task for anyone to absorb at this late stage. The good news is that most (if not all) of your initial questions have been answered here at one time or another — probably dozens of times. The hard part is quickly finding those answers.

        Dal has organized the blog into many different topics covering various subjects (The Poem, 9 Clues, Where Warm Waters Halt, The Blaze, and about a dozen others, along with archives of older retired versions of most of them) and is thus appreciative of searchers who post under the most appropriate topic. Odds -n- Ends is intended for subjects that aren’t captured by the others, and not surprisingly it gets a lot of traffic requiring fairly regular “retirement” (you’ll note that this is the 46th incarnation of Odds -n- Ends!) So any time you can find a more fitting topic folder to post under, it’ll help reduce Dal’s workload. Good luck!

          • Remember, you can always use your browser and search on any key word followed by “site:” followed by no space, then the address of the home page of this website (or any other website), to search the whole site at once.

          • Randall another great tool dal has incorporated is the search toolbar towards the bottom of the page.

          • No, Matt, that’s not quite going to answer the mail. The search function here doesn’t search Dal’s website globally. Would be cool if it did, but probably too hard for him to implement.

          • Lug: sadly, you may be correct. Reading the threads from 4 years ago, I hate to say that folks back then had better ideas.

            What happened to Curious Hobbit?

          • Mr. Lug:

            I respectfully disagree…
            a few are very close. 2018 is the year!!! IMO There just can’t be that many coincidences, (hard and soft clues) gradually concentrating in frequency pointing toward one special area literally at the end of a rainbow. My guess is that will we know this summer if I’m a star gazing, crazy lunatic…..

            Best regards;
            1fBilly

          • Yes I too do miss and wonder what happened to so many who have come and gone.
            Welcome All new searchers! Fresh eyes may see the way. I think we must find a word that is KEY. As Forrest said.
            To all the older searchers that don’t post anymore. Please say hello and let us know how you are and if your still searching?

        • Have to laugh at “at this late stage” considering no one has found it yet. It may as well be the very beginning as far as I’m concerned. Good luck Randall.

    • Hi Ran Dallb – welcome to the chase! I live in Denver, and know most of those areas. Do you think an 80 year old man could carry 20lbs twice (so 4 trips, two with weight, two without) through those areas? Not saying you’re wrong, just that I’ve been to these areas (Im 41 yo) and some are not easy walks, much less with weight. A bigger question is why would you need to start at those springs if you could just drive to the end clues? FF has said (After The Fact – of publishing the orig poem) you need to nail down WWWH…what made you settle on your spot…many say the poem must ‘tell’ you…you can’t just throw darts/guess/choose. Again, welcome and keep on searching!

      • my WWWH became Cold Springs CO only because I have been skiing in that area for decades. Hot Springs is just to the NE of Cold Springs. Hence, they halt. Lair O’ The Bear Park immediately came to mind when I saw home of brown, made sense to me. You cant come across the blaze I speak of without starting @ cold springs. He certainly could have taken 2 trips from a vehicle at the very end of his riddle. Why Not?
        Thanks for the welcome

          • and…as an airborne ranger who has always enjoyed the TOTC, I can completely understand a Vietnam fighter pilot who had terminal cancer. I’m leaning toward the theory that his wonderful poem simply means that the blaze is the fire in your soul to seek, search, and or desire. Yet I’m open minded to the fact he actually planted some booty. Again ,new here, enjoying the perception, which becomes your truth.

  4. Zap, here we go again, I won’t drag this on, I understand your position, and it is noted. I like understanding both positions.
    You said:
    I just don’t get the innuendo that this was a full-day or multi-day exercise.
    In reference to:
    D. Crockett
    on January 30, 2018 at 7:25 pm said:
    From Fundamental Guidelines
    Important Information updated
    June 26th 2017

    “If you can’t make two trips from
    your car to your solve in several
    hours, then don’t go.”

    Definition of several
    : an indefinite number more than two and fewer than many
    Definition of number
    : a sum of units : total
    : an indefinite usually large total
    Definition of fewer
    : a smaller number of persons or things
    Definition of many
    : consisting of or amounting to a large but indefinite number
    Definition of indefinite
    : not definite: such as
    a : typically designating an unidentified, generic, or unfamiliar person or thing
    ⦁ the indefinite articles a and an
    ⦁ indefinite pronouns
    b : not precise : vague
    c : having no exact limits

    I get your simple explanation. It has weight, but it cuts to the heart of nothing. another comment from f that is sooo vague. And again, since you are parking at clue 3, then you are taking a short cut the second trip. Need to follow all the clues, but in a 4 hour time span, your second trip is skipping clues 1 and 2.
    I hear your argument, I’m not saying it’s wrong, it very well may be so, but, I also hear all the ATF’s and they open up possibilities that cannot be ignored. My stance: don’t let my interpretations or use my definitions of words f uses. See both sides and don’t get stuck with just one and only one way to interpret his comments.
    You are flat out saying, has to be in the afternoon, roughly 4 hours. You have ATF’s to contend with. I say, It could have been one full day or multiple days. I have some ATF’s to contend with. The best solution is to adhere to both possibilities.
    To tell you the truth, I’ve looked at a lot of ATF’S and interviews and can see that almost every scenario is possible. Whatever your thought is, it could be valid, you just need to contend with how you read and interpret what f is saying, and vigorously attempt to discredit it. If I say, two trips, one afternoon, park at wwwh, and start walking, that is an impossible way of looking at it. That scenario cannot happen. If I need to follow all the clues because there are no shortcuts, then I very well cannot be parking at clue 3.
    As there are so many possible scenarios, there are just about the same amount of impossible scenarios. Case in point, I can walk from my car, taking two trips, go 15-20 mile, and be done in several hours. Could an 80 year old man, sure, define several.
    Again, not looking for something that is not there, just saying best to look at all the possibilities in this situation. Only because the ATF’s tell me so.
    If we go at this one, we both will be right, both have the support of many ATF’s, and end up exactly where we started, nowhere. Again, I hear your argument, know it, noted it, could prove it right and can prove it wrong. Same with my argument. We are at a stalemate.

    • This is my opinion only:

      “If you can’t make two trips from
      your car to your solve in several
      hours, then don’t go.”

      The implication is “on the same day”. So the general assumption is that Forrest went from his car to the hiding place twice in one afternoon. Why did he do this?

      I think it’s simple to explain. He went in the first time with some items like the chest and other things he planned to leave there. The 2nd trip was necessary to stash the treasure itself in the chest. He may have had it all in a canvas bag or whatever, and did the final setup when he reached the hiding place the 2nd time.

      I believe he did this all in one afternoon. I believe you do have to drive to clue 3. I further believe there is more there (at the hiding place) than just the TC full of treasure. There is something else there. Maybe 2 or 3 other things he brought along on the first trip.

      This is of course just my opinion. I believe he may have taken along one of his bronze bottles like we see on page 139 of TTOTC, also containing something which he has not mentioned. So call me crazy, but I also believe he may have taken along another item or 2 on the first trip which was necessary for his final setup.

      A small solar array, and a signal device which was his thing in case the TC was found during his remaining lifetime. So 2 trips were necessary because the whole weight of all the items he carried in were several pounds more than the 42 pounds we all know about.

      All in good spirit, and all in my opinion.

      Franklin

        • Maybe he just enjoyed the area so much he purposely made two trips…
          But did not have to…

      • If FF took two trips to secret the chest, does that mean he filled the chest and sealed the chest at the location? I may be making more out of a minor detail than I should, but would melting wax and setting a reliable seal be a bit of a challenge? I mean, to hide the chest with a secure knowledge that the seal was indeed tight…I’m not experienced in sealing chests, so I am speculating as to the degree of difficulty.

        • I am not aware that Forrest ever said that the chest is sealed. What has given you this idea?
          He in fact has said that the treasure is wet.

          Just a thought – JDA

        • Over 40… JDA is correct in the 2 statements he made. However, the “seal (ing)” of the chest is a good question/statement.

          I also go along with this to some degree. Forrest has said that the chest is unlocked and has also stated that the key to the chest is (in) the chest…. so…

          how does Forrest guarantee that through happenstance, accident, animal, human, nature or any other way…the chest wont be toppled over and the contents spilled out, right? Ground can move/shake, logs can roll, water is a great force, rocks can be moved, animals are diggers and movers. why did he make the “SCREW ON” lids for the bronze jars he hid? the same reason. A sealed screw on lid is harder to undo… it requires more EFFORT.

          there has to be a “containment measure” of some sort to make sure this doesn’t happen.

          I have found the clue that hints at that for my solve…. but not willing to share. you have a good thought process. keep down that road.

          • James

            Yes a containment plan. I agree with that idea. Accidental trespass by a large animal like a bear, badger, coyote or other critter who might dig around things.

            So here is my idea, opinion:

            He stacked a few flat slate rocks on top of the TC and wedged it into the hiding place, but with the front of the TC showing forward. That way the animal would be unlikely able to dislodge all the items to get to the TC which wouldn’t interest the animal much anyway. No good food smells!

            Maybe rocks on the side too, but rocks are the most handy things which don’t have to be carried in. They are all over the place in the Rocky Mountains.

            I think maybe he set a bronze bottle in front of the whole hiding spot also wedged into a place between some rocks. I think the bottle (not a bell) is what is there. A surprise is inside it for the finder.

            I guess you know I am totally all in on this mystery. It’s the greatest fun.

            Franklin

      • Franklin, a bell. He buried a bell at one of the clues, IMO. Think, when he’s dead and gone, the chase still going, His spirit would want to see the searcher find the chest. So ring a bell, so I will know…
        It’s a valid thought, and also could be a hint. If you think that, yea, I can see him doing that, then the hint of a bell being at one of the clues would lead to possibly being on Land Managed by the Bureau of Land Management. I know that is vast, but still a hint.
        He had that Q&A about, does Bighorn ring any bells, maybe the map to a bell is in Bighorn Wyoming. (I would use Dr. Eddy’s diagram for reference):)
        On your two trips post, that is plausible, but realize that your second trip is taking a short cut, and not following all the clues. If you’re good with that, may very well be.
        With that comment of his, to me, if he just meant a few hours, like 2,3,4,5,6, he could have used the word “couple” instead. Using several almost makes the comment read like there are many hours. Compare ‘couple” to “several”. A couple hints compared to several hints. Makes several sound like a lot more. And again, it’s all on the searcher and their solve. Anything is possible. Could almost use the ATF’s to trip up any solve. The out is when searchers just say he was just being simple or others are looking to much into certain comments. No, it’s just possible to trip up any solve really. You say “all in one afternoon”, okay, then you are taking a shortcut, you think multiple days, then what does ‘several” hours mean. See, easy to do. So believe me, any real solve is a possibility. It’s the obvious solves that just cannot work that fixates searchers. They still are “looking under water”, or looking in Idaho, or looking for multiple blazes, you cannot talk common sense in that situation…

      • Yes, but why 42 pounds? I believe that’s the big question. Why does a 80ish year old man pick a weight greater than his strength. Have you asked yourself that? If not, you should, IMO.
        I agree about the two trips but I believe he traveled there a lot over the years. I can go back on GE & see the changes to my spot & the cluster of small trees didn’t appear until around 2010 or so, all saplings it seems. I could be wrong on their age but I can definitely see the growth over the years. The trees in my area cover something slightly, ever picture is covered a bit more over time. I believe indulgence is somewhere in that small grove of trees. I sent Mr. Fenn a picture & an email back in June or July, maybe I’m the reason for the gut feeling. I know we all do. I telling myself how can a farm hand be smart enough. Good luck!
        -B

    • Charlie — I think you’ve been channeling Seeker lately, at least in terms of message length. 😉 Okay, first order of business — the two trips from your car in several hours Fenn quote. You point out the vagueness of the statement, but I don’t think you fully appreciate the context. People were describing these ridiculous odysseys into the Rockies requiring half a day or more just to complete one round trip. Double-digit distances, and even thousand-foot-plus elevation gains/losses. Forrest was trying to disabuse people of the notion that he walked a long way, without specifying the distance. It wasn’t meant as a clue; it was meant as a poor solution killer.

      “And again, since you are parking at clue 3, then you are taking a short cut the second trip.”

      I have not said that I’m parking at clue #3. You may be confusing me with a different searcher. I’m certainly not parking at the first clue (well, maybe just to take a picture of WWWH for the old scrapbook), and I’m driving in the “canyon down” because it is much easier than walking that distance with 20+ lb. loads. At no time has Forrest ever said he walked all the clues.

      “Need to follow all the clues, but in a 4 hour time span, your second trip is skipping clues 1 and 2. … You are flat out saying, has to be in the afternoon, roughly 4 hours.”

      I gave 4 hours as a strawman for the maximum time it should take; I think it will take a lot less than that.

      “You have ATF’s to contend with.”

      Sure, but I violate none of them (of which there are about 100) with my solution. There is actually only one ATF that still puzzles me: “If you have a searching partner, best to have them wait in the car.” (MW Weekly Words 10/7/2016). On another occasion, Forrest has strongly suggested safety in numbers, and that people should not search alone: two at a minimum, and preferably more. So it would seem to be a contradiction. The best explanation that another searcher came up with is that maybe your “searching partner” is your dog. (What’s Cynthia’s take on that? Her dog is always searching with her!)

      “If I say, two trips, one afternoon, park at wwwh, and start walking, that is an impossible way of looking at it. That scenario cannot happen.”

      I bet Seeker, Lugnutz and Goofy would disagree with you. 🙂

      “If I need to follow all the clues because there are no shortcuts, then I very well cannot be parking at clue 3.”

      Forrest never said you had to follow all the clues *twice*. He said “The clues should be followed in order Curtis. There is no other way to my knowlege. f” I don’t see that statement as addressing the logistics of *recovering* the chest; it is only about *finding* it.

      • And who says you didn’t “follow” most of the clues before you ever left home, and went right to the last ones?
        Why do people INTERPRET and label that as “shortcuts”?

        I feel like people turn into Rainman over their interpretations of words and lines and how literal to make them. IMO

        • Well even if you do have to make two trips, you follow all of the clues the first time otherwise you can’t find it, but if you find it you know where it is, so who cares if you skip a few steps, you don’t need them at the point, you know where it is

      • Fair enough Zap, like I said, all possible.

        “If I say, two trips, one afternoon, park at wwwh, and start walking, that is an impossible way of looking at it. That scenario cannot happen.”

        I bet Seeker, Lugnutz and Goofy would disagree with you.

        Then they would be wrong. He is not going into the canyon. back up, then back down. Since I stated that the searcher parked and started walking at wwh, and the canyon comes after wwwh, then it is an impossible scenario.

        I have not said that I’m parking at clue #3.

        I said at least the 3rd clue. I was referencing anyone who uses one afternoon, because of the fact f did not go in canyon, up canyon, back in canyon,

        Forrest was trying to disabuse people of the notion that he walked a long way, without specifying the distance

        You know I can’t accept that, that is your interpretation, not f’s.

        At no time has Forrest ever said he walked all the clues

        True.

        Forrest never said you had to follow all the clues *twice*. He said “The clues should be followed in order Curtis. There is no other way to my knowlege. f”

        He never said you didn’t have to. The clues should be followed in order, no matter how many times you go to the spot. Then again, that is how I read it, possible he meant another way.

        This is why I can say we are at a stalemate Zap. I posted up thread to Franklin about this very thing. It’s not that I don’t believe you, really, I can read, I can understand, I can see your side, but like I said, any solve, from what I’ve found, can be tripped up.
        I tend to like the other thought, the one where all the clues cannot be solved. I think seeing how f created this chase is a good indication of that very thought. He already had his spot, the poem told everything how to get there. What the poem didn’t do was to solve the clues. He didn’t notice the clues until he was done with the poem, done explaining how to get to the chest. That leads to him writing the poem as the thing to solve, not the clues. He didn’t write the poem to solve for clues, he wrote it to solve for a spot, an “X” on a map. That is valid, and you know it. That is a better conversation because look at how many are trying to solve the clues. Saying that the answers are in the poem, ha, that’s not how the poem was created and not what it was meant to do. Look at all the solves that would dissolve with that understanding. But of course, searchers will not admit to that.
        I said a long time ago, the worst thing f told us is that there are 9 clues. Of course they could be understood, of course they could be found, of course they will be followed, but the poem, as the poem goes, doesn’t know about any of the clues. It only knows about the spot. lol, have into it all, I can’t wait to hear these excuses. The simple fact is that is how the poem is written, solve for spot, not solve clues…

        • Charlie: I can’t speak for Goofy, Seeker or Lugnutz, but I can speak for logic, and you cannot eliminate the possibility that all 9 clues are wrapped up pretty close to one another. To assume otherwise presupposes some “impossible” or impractical distance that must be traveled by the searcher “in the canyon down.” Now of course I can see where you might come to that conclusion because of “Not far, but too far to walk,” but Seeker (for one) doesn’t see it that way. In fact, he doesn’t think you have to go down in the canyon at all. As an example, suppose the “it” in “Take it in the canyon down” is not your journey but rather your gaze or your imagination. That’s not how I read it, but it’s not implausible.

          And even if you *do* physically travel down in the canyon, what is “too far to walk” to you, and what’s your justification? Who knows, maybe Fenn was posing a baseball-related riddle, i.e. anything over 90 feet would be too far to “walk.” 😉

          • You are right, I am counting “canyon down” as the second clue. It very well may not be. My bad.
            I should have said from the beginning,” using canyon down as the 2nd clue”, yada,yada,yada…
            I think you already knew what I was meaning though. That situation would be impossible if canyon down is your 2nd clue. That is why I said “park at clue 3 or further”, beings how if canyon down is clue 2, then f would not be going into a canyon, back up, then down again.

            As a baseball note, of course I have one. :).
            If you take the words in the poem per stanza, there is a pattern:
            25, 27,27, 29,29,29, the next word count if there so happened to be a 7th stanza would have 33 words. You have 25, +2 to get 27, then 27 plus how many (+2’s) you have, so 27 +2 for 29. Now use 29 twice, then need to add your +2’s. 2 +2’s = 4, so 29+4=33.
            So, on august 22, 2007, (forrest’s birthday), the Texas Rangers were playing the Baltimore Orioles. By the third inning, Baltimore is up 3-0. So, fast forward, the game ends in the ninth, Texas Rangers win 30-3. The highest scored game in the modern era. All on f’s b-day. And, it just so happens to be Texas. Pretty Ironic. Can find 33 in the poem, and in baseball. Here’s what it means:

            I have no idea…..just interesting…

            Now, are you bringing up too far to walk? lol, you know what it is for me. It’s another stalemate for us…
            Time to go home, brain needs a rest…

          • Charlie wrote: “You are right, I am counting “canyon down” as the second clue. It very well may not be. My bad.”

            That wasn’t my point, but if it’s any consolation I think “Take it in the canyon down” is indeed the second clue. I am not in the least bit concerned with poor Forrest having to go up and down a canyon twice in an afternoon, btw. It’s not like it has to be the Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone. If you’re already at the bottom of a canyon and following its natural course, going up or down the canyon is hardly a major physical imposition. People seem to think going up and down the canyon means going up and down the canyon *walls* (e.g. South Rim of the Grand Canyon in AZ); what’s wrong with the possibility that you’re following the natural water course of said canyon? The popular searcher choices of the Firehole or Madison are hardly insurmountable challenges in either direction. Just ask Dal.

          • Okay Zap, so even though he said he wouldn’t do it, you’re saying he did, is that correct?

            “It took me two trips in my car to hide the treasure. And I can tell you an 80-year-old man is not going to make a trip into a canyon, then come up and go down again. As for who else knows, I’m the only one. My wife doesn’t know.” f

            Or, are we suppose to think that it’s his “gaze” that is going up and down, like you posted earlier?

            Either way, I think he covers the canyon up and down comment by saying he wouldn’t do it. This is why I said you have ATF’s to contend with.

            If he is saying go in the canyon then come up then back down, then the assumption of going down in the canyon would be true. Down, up, down, two trips.

            This again is why I said there is a shortcut in the second trip. This is why he didn’t follow all 9 clues the second time. This is why you have to drive at least to clue 3.

            In the context he is using, an 80 year old man who doesn’t go in canyon, up, then down seems to be saying whatever his mode of travel is doesn’t matter, he won’t do it. So, you would have to drive to at least clue 3.
            He said follow all 9 clues, there is no other way. He didn’t say how many trips, first, second, third, he said follow all clues. This than leads to you can’t follow all the clues on the same day. If you did, you would go down canyon, up, then down again.

            If your point is clues being close together, doesn’t matter, still have a canyon to go down, clue 2. Once that is done, you cannot come back out the canyon on the same day.
            Liam above said, “but if you find it you know where it is, so who cares if you skip a few steps, you don’t need them at the point, you know where it is”.

            Forrest did not say that, if he meant to say that, he would have. He said, follow all the clues, there is no other way he is aware of.

            I we back to just picking and choosing whatever ATF’s fit our solves is good, and if they don’t fit ignore them? Back to force fitting a solve.

            Liam also said on a wwwh thread that how can you be 100% confident, you can.
            How does f see confidence? how does he define it? Using how f has explained how one gains confidence, then you can be 100% confident. And that comes from the poem because the poem gives the spot. It’s paradoxical when you throw in the clues. How can one be confident if they don’t know wwwh. They won’t know that until they have the chest.
            Yes, that is correct, we can still leave with 100% confidence. According to Fenn. Not according to Liam. The poem very well is a teaching tool, it very well educates, f says there is walking involved so I already know there is a physical side. It also helps to have a little self-esteem. So, how can I not be 100% confident. Knowledge, training, and a good ego helps.
            I am only guilty on thinking that you guys already know all this info, that basically you know what I know. I guess I will have to be treating comments as if they come from a 1 week old searcher. If you feel having confidence entails being 100% positive of a location, Forrest never said that or in his explanation of confident, never even given the mere thought that 100% chest location is what you need. He said you will go with confidence, what logic am I missing?
            He said follow all the clues, no other way, what logic am I missing? He said no to going down canyon, back up, then down again, where am I missing the logic of just seeing what he said. He has either said it, defined it, explained it, or just said just enough so as to question, where is he being contradictive? Where is he not educating us to be 100% confident?
            I pretty much can read, I see your points, I get your arguments, but it comes down to what Forrest believes, either by definitions, comments, whatever, not the searchers’ to just pick and choose.
            Forrest is implying that you go down in a canyon with the context he used. Forrest is implying that you will have 100% confidence by explaining what it takes to gain confidence. IDK, maybe it is a baseball thing, because left field seems very crowded.

          • Whats interesting is he said two trips IN my car, not from my car. But discount and dismiss as an old man as I have seen before.

          • Kira

            Here is the exact quote:

            “If you can’t make two trips from
            your car to your solve in several
            hours, then don’t go.”

            Franklin

          • Franklin

            You referrenced the wrong quote. I was commenting on yhe one from Charlie above.

            Here is the full quote.
            “I never said it was buried. I’ve avoided that word. I hid it. I don’t mean to imply that it isn’t buried. I just didn’t want to give that as a clue,” he previously told PEOPLE. “It took me two trips in my car to hide the treasure. And I can tell you an 80-year-old man is not going to make a trip into a canyon, then come up and go down again. As for who else knows, I’m the only one. My wife doesn’t know.”

            From

            http://people.com/human-interest/forrest-fenn-treasure-hunt-controversy/

          • Charlie, I think you take this whole up-and-down-the-canyon-twice business too seriously, or you have too specific a canyon etched in your mind. Context is important: when Forrest was making those canyon remarks, it was in the specific context of the particular part of the Rio Grande where Randy died. I haven’t been to that location, but I presume he was addressing the up-and-down requirements of that particular spot. (Personally, I think anyone who has a solution that involves more than 500 feet of elevation gain or loss needs to get a new solution.)

            But there are plenty of gently sloping canyons that involve minimal elevation gain/loss over many miles. I see no issue with someone making two trips “up and down” such a canyon in an afternoon. We’re not talking the South Kaibab trail into the Grand Canyon.

            “Liam also said on a wwwh thread that how can you be 100% confident, you can.”

            Well, there have been a few hundred thousand people that have been “confident” over the last seven years, and we see what that has gotten us so far. 😉 You speak as if you are 100% confident of whatever solution you currently have. Since I know you don’t search in Montana, I believe that confidence is misplaced. I don’t know if you’ve ever gone out searching before, but once you have you’ll be a bit more introspective. I think the odds of any searcher finding the chest on their first trip out is essentially zero.

            From the somewhat rambling second half of your message, I suspect you think you’ve got precise GPS coordinates for the chest’s location, and therefore have “solved the poem,” and that the so called 9 clues are just a distraction. If that suspicion is correct, it seems to me you have a clear short-cut that short-circuits all the clues. And that would violate a great many of Forrest’s ATF comments, not the least of which was that no one is going to find that chest without first figuring out WWWH. If there were precise coordinates concealed within the structure of the poem, then WWWH would be irrelevant. I just don’t see Forrest including such a “back door.”

          • Kira

            Yes I see now. Very confusing isn’t it? I have always thought he made 2 trips from the car, now it might be 2 trips IN the car. I see your point clearly now.

            Franklin

          • It has to be considered that it was misquoted, but to error with in vs from is just hard to believe.

          • Come on Zap, you know I’m in Montana, have been there before you came on board. Anaconda….Remember, place dear (Deer Valley), hardware store, Veterans memorial Hwy, Hwy 90, Evergreen st, church, train station, Warm Spring Creek, nickel, copper, dormant geyser system, etc…etc…etc…I’ve been out five times. Usually stay in a vacation rental near Helena.

            I have no certain canyon in mind, I’m just stating what he said. Like I said, we are at a stalemate with this. If I state what he says, someone comes out with a different interpretation, if he makes a comment, it’s not the right context, if he has multiple implications from a statement, it’s being twisted, taking him to literal, not literal enough, come on now. I’ve said it before, almost every scenario can fit. There are not many solves that cannot somehow fit. It’s just you would have to answer to some ATF’s that can debunk a solve.
            If someone says they followed all clues, both trips, then they have to answer why he said he would not do that. But I say that and all of a sudden, I’m putting to much in what he says. If the poem says, “not far but too far to walk”, to me, he could be saying it’s “not far”, it’s “too far” that I’m looking for. No to one, yes to the other. It’s very possible, I mean, I can read, I see what he’s saying, but, when he comes out later and says, “walking long distances you’re walking ‘too far”, and I say something like ” looks like we need to walk long distances, since that is the “too far” we are looking for, OHHHHH NOOO, twisting his words, there is distance in that comment, he’s saying it’s way to far to walk, etc…etc…etc…
            I’m not doing nothing but seeing both sides of the argument. And, f knows this will happen, or he would tell us exactly what he means, like the Eric Sloane, housekeepers comment. If he doesn’t give the punch line, then that is how, I believe, he wants us to interpret. The what ifs and the possible.

            Of course I’m confident. Learned a lot in 7 years, researched a lot, failed a lot, understood a lot, can physically make the walk, and know, there is no way I could have come up with this solve, someone or something has directed me. No way I get the letter values or make them up. No way the non hints actually fit, no way the numbers are what they are in reference to the stories. If you wanted examples, there are too many, be too long of a post. I know this, no way I can have the blaze I have on my own. As I see it, no way anybody went to that spot and put the stuff there as a joke, to exact. No way, I have the coordinates of the blaze from where I got them. “That” is key, I feel I know the key, what rainbow there is, the letter values of his name equal the pages in the book. The book of days, FF or 66. 2442, he was 66 in the summer of ’97, what 97 is, even the clues in the poem and the key, the lines they are in equals my coordinates. Where a bell is, Eric Sloane and 1910, marvel gaze, shadow, right straight, shoot, I wouldn’t doubt that was his footprint I saw, (lol,kidding), you name it Zap. So yes, I’m confident. It’s in Montana…

            From the somewhat rambling second half of your message, I suspect you think you’ve got precise GPS coordinates for the chest’s location, and therefore have “solved the poem,” and that the so called 9 clues are just a distraction. If that suspicion is correct, it seems to me you have a clear short-cut that short-circuits all the clues.

            Zap, really, serious? You know I’ve said the poem does not give the exact coordinates to the chest. There are places that distance is involved and it goes by feet. There is no short cut of the clues, one way in, being out there, I feel I know what he is referencing as clues. Doesn’t mean I can skip any, it’s impossible to do. And you know GPS coordinates are not exact. We’ve talked about this before.

            We would be better off if you told me how you can solve the 9 clues from the poem, and I can argue that the poem was not written to solve for clues. It sounds like you are trying to solve for clues, so, to bring up an old topic, how do you know what a clue is from the poem when even f didn’t know all the 9 clues when he was writing the poem? How do you know what a clue is or a hint? Same ol’ garble. Seems to me that you are reading the poem to solve clues, I thought we read the poem to put an “X” on a map. Please, tell me what the blaze looks like. I hope you use all 24 lines for a solve, didn’t you have a solve by line 16?If so, is that logical?

          • Hi charlie: okay, I stand corrected. In the past I saw the words “Deer Valley” in your posts (which I will forever associate with Utah), and I stopped reading further, assuming it was somewhere in Colorado or at least not in Montana. And having never heard of Anaconda (other than the snake), I investigated no further. At least you’re in the right state (IMHO), but you are calling out landmarks that are not even close to my radar, nor ever will be.

            So you admit to being out 5 times. What’s your excuse for your past failures, and what makes you think your next trip will be any different? I’m not trying to be rude — I’m trying to understand the psychology. Usually after a searcher has failed that many times they get the message and tone down their rhetoric. As for your letter/numerology theories, they are too fanciful for me to entertain.

            “Zap, really, serious? You know I’ve said the poem does not give the exact coordinates to the chest. There are places that distance is involved and it goes by feet.”

            So you say. You are still bypassing clues with coordinate shortcuts. That is a formula for failure. I wish you all the best at whatever your latest destination happens to be, but since, IMO, you haven’t solved the key word, let alone WWWH, I think the only thing you have to look forward to in your immediate future is a nice vacation.

            “We would be better off if you told me how you can solve the 9 clues from the poem, and I can argue that the poem was not written to solve for clues.”

            That doesn’t sound like a productive or interesting conversation to me. The fact remains that the 9 clues can be solved. If you don’t believe that, then you might as well hang up your towel because you would then be picking and choosing when Forrest is telling the truth or prevaricating.

            “It sounds like you are trying to solve for clues…”

            Not solve FOR clues — SOLVE CLUES. There are 9 to solve, so yes — my intent has always been to solve them, because those are Forrest’s instructions.

            “… so, to bring up an old topic, how do you know what a clue is from the poem when even f didn’t know all the 9 clues when he was writing the poem?”

            Simple: deduction. We’ve already been given the gift in the NZ radio interview that WWWH is clue #1. Furthermore, we’ve been instructed that the clues are consecutive.

            “Please, tell me what the blaze looks like.”

            Sorry — I respectfully decline.

            ” I hope you use all 24 lines for a solve, didn’t you have a solve by line 16?If so, is that logical?”

            IMO, every line in the poem has at least one clue, at least one hint, or occasionally both. I don’t discard any of them. And again in my opinion, WWWH cannot be solved without the poem hints.

          • Hey Zap,

            Okay, why 5 times. There is 2 lakes up there. Lower Hearst lake was my initial spot. The poem at that time gave me coordinates to the little island there. 1st trip out started late, reached 7800 ft. couldn’t get to the lake, took bike, so rode bike down to meet up with girlfriend. Awesome ride for a 47 year old.
            2nd trip, went on my own in November, that’s all I want to say about that trip. 3rd trip, made it to the lake, found nothing, but in leaving, and wanting to post my solve, there were signs people were there, so I wanted pictures of the area. One of the pictures was this:
            https://ibb.co/gjJ3Cm
            I found it odd that the burnt wood was outside the pit, and that a rock seemed to have a picture on it.
            4th trip, just went to the lake to look again but wasn’t confident, went mostly to get away. After that trip, worked the poem and saw some errors. worked it more, come up with a solid solve, and noticed that the picture I had taken was the area of the blaze. That pic is of the blaze, for me. So, 5th trip, new spot, girlfriend takes friend, the nagging was non stop, so we didn’t make it to where I needed to be. So, another nice somewhat vacation. Have now spent about a year and a half trying to debunk solve, because I really, to tell the truth, think that there is more, just keep finding little confirmations instead.
            So, to see my solve, the poem gives a spot, to get to that spot starts in Anaconda Montana. The clues are on the path to get to that spot. You already know my wwwh, and canyon simple enough, the road less taken. 3rd clue is just beyond the tree line. A no trespassing gate. I could explain why and show the solve for it but some other time. 4th clue is the blaze. 5,6,7,etc…etc…etc…The reason I can give that info is simple, someone is not going to go out there and find the chest with just this info. Clue 7-clue 8 hold, what I think, is the spot where a bell is buried. Even finding that, still have a lot of work to do to find chest.
            You immediately will not go for the area, I know this, just too far, no way f went to all that trouble, maybe, I don’t underestimate him, it’s just that’s what the poem gave me in the end. As far as my solve, the numbers check out and are essential, IMO. I’ll put it this way, IF there are numbers in the poem, and IF they are from Letter values, I without a doubt, have them. So, if there are numbers in the poem, I am 100% confident about them. Please notice the IF. I am also confident about the blaze. Maybe not 100%, but a good 99% is fine with me. I would be surprised if it wasn’t. It sure does fit…

          • Charlie, what if your latitude is not a latitude and if your longitude is not a longitude?

          • Said differently, suppose I expressed a location in X, Y grid terms and said “it’s located at +5, -3”.

            Now, a person could go to that location – pretty straight forward.

            However, if there were several “keys” involved that required shifting that location – then the +5, -3 location would only be a single point along the way….but not the final point.

            Let’s say the first key was +1, +3. Combining that with +5, -3 would provide for +6, 0 which is a different coordinate altogether. That’s the location after Key #1.

            The movement after all 4 keys would then…and only then, be the correct final location.

            So – that’s what my question was about. The longitude or latitude that one thinks might be significant might only be a stepping stone along the way.

          • See, now that’s a good question, Covert. The poem told me. “There’ll be no paddle up your creek”. Believe it or not, for me, when I break down that line, it tells me, 2 T will be for your 4. 22 will be for your 4.
            It goes with, or is in line with the 3rd line. Which is seconds.(the abr. of sec, and some other stuff).
            Anyway, I get 22 will be for your latitude. For me, 22 is also Forrest Fenn, (14 8). It is also the degree of ‘his” rainbow, 22 degrees. (see rainbow halo, mountains, ice crystals). Also, the “catch” 22.
            It all follows each other at that point in the poem, the longitude comes later.
            Not to get it twisted, these are not the clues. Some lines where the numbers match a coordinate just so happens to be the same line a clue is, but two entirely different ways to look at that line. There is nothing that says, here’s the latitude, here’s the longitude, but it’s obvious. The only thing that seems to give a degree is a hint in the book that matches the poem’s latitude degree. Also, a pic in the book. Environmentalists to some degree, (add environmentalists + to = degree), also, page 57, Skippy holding a rock.
            The thing is, there just no other way to see those numbers, used like they are, and think anything different.

            To get to your point, as you point out, it’s a stepping stone. There is still more to do after. You are right, the coordinates are just one point, it just so happens I look at them as back-up. (the coordinates), It gives a certain spot, which is what you can use as reference, “how do I get there, “what path do I take”, “where do I start”???, That’s really it. It marked an “X” on a map. Where I start is wwwh, of course. I could tie that into many things f has said, but also the answer I get for lines 5 and 6. Following the path you come across things that could be seen as clues. This is how I see the solve, anyway, after the blaze, the searcher is dealing with “feet”. The blaze is tough, I’ve actually found coordinates to that spot, but long after finding the area. I see them as backup. I haven’t found anything else that says coordinates. For me, from the blaze, it turns into: feet, direction, distance. Those are from the poem, also the key, which is in the poem, one of the distances is “a word ‘that’ is key”, matches up.
            It’s more like if you think, the coordinates give you an area, how do I get to that area. Before that area, when you “find” the blaze, we are dealing in feet. One of those measurements happens to fall on the coordinates. And that is where, I believe, a bell is buried.
            So, when the big discussion starts about the pin point accuracy of coordinates, it’s not given that way, at least for me. The letter/number values help in a lot of ways, well they are pretty much needed. That’s not the “essence” of the poem solve though, it’s just breaking down the lines, what shows. Letter values. I didn’t start looking for them, they just came into play. The poem does offer it’s own numbers, like something you can check your work against, that is within, the book of days, 2442 or 66 or FF which is also what I get from coordinates. I think that is why the one spot, because he could basically be in a spot 50′ away and still be considered the same spot, or area. It’s the coordinates that end up backing up the numbers. Sound confusing, it’s not, I’m just bad at explaining it.
            I know you’ve been here for awhile, so I don’t say this towards you, but I think the best way to solve the poem is to take each line as a puzzle of it’s own, take a notebook, put the line at the top of the paper, and below, break down that line as many different ways you can find. Some lines break down easy, others not so. When done, you will see a certain flow, no mistake. I’ve found that all the clues cannot be solved with just the poem, the info just is not there, so, in my opinion, it is foolish to try to determine clues and solve them. I believe f has given us a spot, and getting to that spot, you will find the clues. Some of the later clues, the ones dealing with distance, direction, among other things, the poem tells you, but what the blaze looks like, or his reference to wwwh, I don’t see it in the poem. Even though marvel gaze is not a clue, that can be figured out from the poem. My clue 9 is line 24… A time and a distance. Goes with the key, and adds to it.

    • Charlie and others…
      MW Q’s w/Forrest 6/9/14
      …Forgive me if this is redundant, but were both trips made on the same day/date ? Not to be anal, but that would be one spinaroo of the giant ball we call Earth that constitutes a single 24-hour day to its humble inhabitants.
      Thanks so much. Best regards Joe.
      ” Joe you make this so complicated. Reminds me of the reason I don’t like meetings. I hope you don’t belong to a PTA someplace. I made two trips from my car to the hiding place and it was done in one afternoon. f ”
      This does not seem overly complicated…

          • Only thing that makes sense. Then again, no numbers right? then again, the clues are solved within the poem, right?
            Oh ye of such little faith.,,,,
            Forgive them father, they know not what they are doing….
            Give us this day, one with three afternoons because I’m so funny. Every time I feel like everyone understands they pull me back in with nonsense.
            (uggghhh, how do I get through to these kids???)
            Darwin was right, some of us have evolved. Then again…
            okay, sorry Goof, Moderate and take this post off now.:)
            No room for monkey business.

      • We know Ken, the fact that it’s not that important has eluded you. Back to solving the clues for you. I’m sure you will find those answers in the poem, right?

        • Charlie…Predicting what I know is not going to help you one iota. My post was a reminder for those who want to keep things simple and trust that Fenn is not intentionally trying to mislead folks.
          good luck charlie

          • I know Ken, I agree. I said we, not you. I get what you are saying, I’m with you. I made the mistake of not putting in “Hay’s” name and said “you”. I did not mean you, I apologize, I got ahead of myself. The only part that I intended to refer to you was, “we know Ken”, that was it. Again, sorry for the confusion. My bad…

  5. Good morning all! That moon was an incredible way to start today. It made me feel so curious and inspired, just like Forrest’s wonderful, selfless, and magical thrill of the chase. Thank you Forrest!

    I keep thinking about the word “and” in the poem. So many of them. “DNA” is a blueprint. Blueprint is a structure. So is the poem in a blueprint structure?

  6. Question for long time searchers. Is it possible that through all of this, that Forrest will become the most well known man in human history? I certainly don’t know as many facts about anyone else. Maybe even my own family members. And when I say well known I mean,,well, you know what I mean. g

    • g- only if FF starts a brewery will he ever top that Dos Equis dude as the worlds most fascinatin.

    • g, Ha ha! Great comment: “most well known man in human history”. That’s so funny. Oh sure, we’ve heard the names of George Washington & Abe Lincoln . . . but do we know what spices they had in their spice cabinets . . . or what their silver ware drawers looked like?

  7. I know Forrest has said that the clues are consecutive and contiguous and until recently I thought I understood both. I say that because I’ve seen it posted several times that contiguous means touching each other; Webster says, “being in actual contact : touching along a boundary or at a point the 48 contiguous states”.

    But this is what I don’t understand. Washington State does not touch New York State or Texas, but by the definition above they are contiguous, part of the lower 48. They are all inside a common boundary, our borders.

    Since the 9 clues are all part of the poem, they are contiguous in that sense. Inside the boundary of the poem. So can someone please help me understand why the clues must touch each other? I ask because another definition is “next or near in time or sequence”.

    I would argue the clues have something in common and it isn’t just the poem, but I cannot find a requirement for them to be “touching” per se as some have stated here. In the end they certainly might touch, but for now I see them as being linked together for lack of a better term.

    Pinatubocharlie

    • each clue is a move forward and closer to the treasure…. so I take it as “put your pencil on the map and move from point to point without raising the pencil from the paper until you get to the TC”. Then you’ll be in the contiguous.

      • Appreciate the feedback James, but I’m not sure that answers my question. No worries though. But if you don’t mind, can you provide a reference for that quote because I can’t seem to find it.

        Thank you much and good luck to you in your quest.

        Pinatubocharlie

        • PINA… that’s my words in quotes… not a quote from ff. my thoughts tend to differ a little.

    • Just combining what forrest has said with the map idea. There must be a circle, as “it doesnt pay to stretch a tangent”; “get back in the box”, means there’s a square; and “where all the lines cross”; would make a “X”. This would connect the dots and keep points contiguous.

  8. f, has said bloggers would analyze my comments into perpetuity.
    I would guess we don’t need to bounderies, just wwwh.

  9. Oops my comment about Two Trips went to moderation. I typed in my name wrong as spdallies instead of spallies… Sorry Dal. I kinda like it though… I might keep it 🙂

  10. Just curious as too how many of you guy’s where interested in treasure hunting, before the Thrill of the Chase came along.

    I’ve always had an interest in hidden treasure from as far back as I can remember, especially if it’s about the Knights Templar or the Egyptians.

    I think you guy’s are very lucky to have TTOTC,
    Forrest in my opinion should be given some kind of recognition for what he has done.

    Ronnie the Scot

    • Since I was a kid and saw goonies lol… my dad used to hide Easter eggs every Easter, but rather then just randomly searching we’d start with one clue that led to an egg with another clue inside, he usually did 6-10 clues, ranging from common knowledge, history, riddles, all sorts of stuff, my dad isn’t successful but very intelligent and an amazing writer… anyway the last cegg contained some money for my siblings and I to split, so basically I’ve been preparing for the chase my entire life haha

      • Funny you mention that Liam. I did the same thing with our kids last Easter just to see how hard it would be for kids to determine lines similar to the poem and find the location. Even in a backyard it was tough for them to determine the location based on the clue.

        • I’d keep it up if I were you, it’s our family’s favorite tradition. The best part is the older the kids get, the harder you can make the clues which makes it more fun… he would try to incorporate things we were learning in school also so as not to make it to difficult lol

          • Lol, good idea. Though one kid is 18 and he will be in college next year but he did enjoy it last year. We will do it again with the 12 year old though. He was so stumped when the clues contained the combo to the shed lock. It was a blast.

    • Since I was a kid and saw goonies lol… my dad used to hide Easter eggs every Easter, but rather then just randomly searching we’d start with one clue that led to an egg with another clue inside, he usually did 6-10 clues, ranging from common knowledge, history, riddles, all sorts of stuff, my dad isn’t successful but very intelligent and an amazing writer… anyway the last egg contained some money for my siblings and I to split, we’ve done them every Easter since I’m 6 years old, 33 now, we still it like that also, nieces and nephews getting into now… yeah so basically I’ve been preparing for the chase my entire life haha

    • I grew up loving to solve puzzles, then in High School a buddy convinced me to try a bowl of weed, and it killed most of my brain cells… and then…..what was the question?

    • Hi Ronnie,
      When I was a little girl, there was a TV show on called “Treasure Hunt.” Anyone else remember that one? It was a chase between I think 2 contestants, maybe more, with clues, and they had to dig up a little treasure chest on an island in a bay, I believe. LOVED it. Also read Treasure Island as a kid; loved that, too!

      • Lady V,

        I remember Treasure Hunt, the British version would probably be similar to the version that you guy’s had.

        I think but I’m not 100% sure that the presenter was called Anneka Rice.

        Ronnie the Scot

    • Ronnie–
      Many years ago a contest took place (1984-1989). It was called “Treasure, In Search of the Golden Horse”. A golden horse was buried somewhere in the Continental United States. If you could find it you would win $500,000.00.

      I got completely wrapped up in it for a while. No one found it. But supposedly two guys found the location after the contest date expired. It had been buried in Tennessee Pass Colorado. I had been led to Oregon, so I was very surprised to learn it had been hid in Colorado.

      What was interesting though is that I later learned a Silver Horse had been buried in Oregon (and is still there according to the author of Treasure). That still intrigues me.

      But I was extremely reluctant to get involved in the Chase, knowing how all-consuming a treasure hunt can become. But alas I am hooked. LOL.

    • Treasure hunting was never an interest prior to this one FF created. I had a really bad lower back for 3 years that until this past year ,I had to quit my job to recover. I didn’t want surgery and no pain medication. I could hardly stand nor walk for a year leading up until this past 6 months. So, during the painful times I studied this poem and hunt. A family member brought this chase to my awareness. It has kept my mind busy and focus away from the pain. I just like trying to solve stuff. This chase is just interesting in the way it has been created. I am not much of a treasure hunter per se. It inspired me to get physically and mentally fit.

      • Alsetenash,

        Nice story, I hope you get rid of your pain eventually.

        Ronnie the Scot

        • Thanks Ronnie. I am healed and pain free now for the past 6 months. I did BOTG and just need to be in better shape . Lol.

      • ” It has kept my mind busy and focus away from the pain.”
        interesting-
        I read about a program for wounded warriors and ptsd victims.
        It involves teaching them how to fly fish. When you become completely immersed in casting, setting the hook, and landing the fish, your mind refocuses on the job at hand, and sublimates your pain and troubles.
        I think that is well thought out approach to healing.

        • Emmett. I sure can attest to that theory , for sure. I started to have Sciatica issues, and lower vertebrae issues starting 5 years ago and got progressively worse over 3 years. Couldn’t walk for more than 1 block and could only stand for about10 minutes for the last year of it .6 months ago it all of the sudden evaporated- I was pain free but then dealt with the phantom of no pain. I didn’t take any drugs nor alcohol . I went BOTG to test my back and it held up greatly ,much to my surprise. But I was sooo out of shape, plus the elevation didn’t help.

          This poem challenge has helped to rewire my mind. I am a new kind of crazy lol. I learnt the terrain of my designated area and I will do just one more BOTG.

      • Hello Alsetenash. Somehow I thought you did a search a year or so ago. I hope all goes well for you.

        • Hey Pdenver. I went in May 2017 last year but couldn’t search because of snow. I went the following month of June 2017 but couldn’t reach my spot because I wasn’t physically in shape to continue for a complete search and get to my spot. I went again in September 2017 but failed once again to get to my spot . I was in poor physical shape and stamina to do multiple hikes, I thought I was physically capable but failed once again to get to my spot.

          I live in Canada and knew nothing of the 4 states . So it took me about 6 months before I put BOTG. 🙂

          • Hello Alsetenash. Thank you for your explanation. I’m not sure why I thought you had done so earlier. It’s possible I may be thinking of another searcher. Did you go alone or with someone else? Brother? Again, I might be confusing your search with someone else.

          • The first search I was alone and first time at site halted by snow was alone also. My second search was with a friend. It all was a good study, this chase takes time. IMO .

          • So, this past spring/ summer was my first search starting May/June and then September 2017. It’s not a simple area where my spot is. It takes time to learn the lay of the land there.

            FF’s quote says it well:

            “Your destination is small, but its location is huge”

            I hope to go again this summer, with better intel now of the area. And in better shape. 🙂

    • When I was a kid there was a prize hidden in our city every year and a clue would be printed in the paper every day until it was found. I always loved trying to figure it out.

      As an adult I am always intrigued by treasures found around the world. There seems to an endless supply in the ocean from sunken ships. I’m sure that if we pulled our money together and searched for hidden treasure in the ocean we would be more profitable. The thing is though I love this challenge and the outdoors so it’s a win win.

      • Aaron,

        I’ve always been intrigued with the Titanic and the Bermuda Triangle.

        I’ve always thought that if the ocean could open up for a week, wouldn’t that be something to see.

        Ronnie the Scot

      • Interesting thought. The thing is there are a multitude of treasure stories throughout the United States, Oak island, the beale papers, the golden ledge and many more. I’m a little frightened by the shear number of people that think forrest fenns treasure is the last treasure in this country.

    • Ronnie M,

      Were you aware of “A Treasure’s Trove” by Michael
      Stadther (around 2004, I think)? He financed the 14
      different treasures with proceeds from the book sales
      I believe.
      There’s lots of info by searching: armchair treasure hunts,
      http://www.mysteriouswritings.com, http://www.treasureclub.net, etc.
      for current treasure hunts.

      In the very slim chance that you don’t find Fenn’s hidden
      treasure on your first time out…there are other hunts
      you can go on, albeit not so tantalizing perhaps!

      Now, while I still have you on the line, have you con-
      sidered trying to sell your story to some media outlet?
      It’s a helluva story-line: Native Scotsman leaves country
      for first time ever to come to America to hunt for hidden
      treasure in the Rocky Mountains! Tonight at 10! In
      exchange for exclusive coverage maybe some entity
      would defray your considerable expenses?? Dal and
      Cynthia et al would know all about that angle; I don’t
      think that they have been paid for being filmed,
      however. When you find the chest what a jackpot it
      will be for the film makers also! A win, win, win: for
      them and you and the rest of us who can go back to
      trying to have a life! OK I’m going back to my corner
      now. Just trying to be helpful ha ha. Good luck.

      D. Crockett

      • D Crockett,

        No I was not aware of A Treasure’s Trove by Michael Stadther, but I will look in to it.

        (Sounds Interesting)

        To answer your other question on wether I thought about getting in touch with some media outlet and tell them of my plans to visit your beautiful country to go in search of Forrest Fenns hidden treasure.

        The answer is yes I did, however I declined a possible offer as they wanted me to divulge my solve.

        And I ain’t doing that.

        Good luck to you and all the other searchers for 2018.

        Ronnie the Scot

        • Ronnie,

          What if you divulge “one” of your potential solves to them?

          You could simply divulge a secondary location and not share your primary. The secondary would of course be one that you knew would not be correct – like in Wyoming or something.

          Just a thought – especially if the media outlet was interested.

  11. My love for treasure hunting came when we moved to the farm, I was 10. My father grew peanuts & we had to pull the weeds out by hand. Nothing worse than walking those rows in the summer heat. One morning we were working & I saw this little yellowish rock poking out of the dirt. My grandmother told me it was an arrowhead & that long ago Indians had lived on the hill where we were standing. I was amazed & hooked, I have walked those rows for years & found some impressive pieces. My favourite is a spire point, it has no chips , curved, & has a slight pinkish tint. I’m close to 50 now & still walk those rows every time I’m home.
    -B

  12. I love treasure hunting. I grew up in the southwest area of Colorado. I was finding arrowheads and pottery just a short distance from our home. My friends and I had quite a collection. The urge to look for arrowheads goes with me wherever I go.

    The Fenn Treasure Hunt has livened up my interest in finding treasure, solving the poem riddle and getting out in the mountains again. I am 67 now, and sometimes I get that same feeling I had as a kid when I go out searching. It’s a wonderful experience for me. I thank the Lord for my good health at this point in life.

    I finally got my copy of OUAW. I am having a blast reading through it. I have a feeling the TC will be found this year. I pray for Forrest’s good health. Has anyone heard how he is doing these days?

    Franklin

  13. How many have you gone back to look at some of the posts here from the early days? It’s fun to read all the hubris (and the occasional humility), as well as the failed predictions. Just one example: JMC’s post on 11/1/2013 under “The Poem” cautioned a searcher, jim, about selling off the gold if he found the chest: that “They predict the price to rise 500% in the next ten years.” Had jim found the chest on that trip, hopefully he would have heeded Yogi Berra’s advice: “It’s tough to make predictions, especially about the future.” On November 1, 2013, gold was trading at $1316 an ounce. Currently it’s at $1343. That’s a whopping gain of 2.05% after 4 1/4 years. Compare with the S&P 500: it was at about 1771 on 11/4/2013. Currently it’s at 2835 — up almost exactly 60% over the same period.

    • Zap- you know as well as i that gold doesnt go up until confidence in paper falls.

      stay tuned!

    • Zap – that’s great news. That means that we can now sell all our stock and reinvest in gold for the next 5 3/4 years, with an expected appreciation of 488% over that time frame! We need to quick hurry up and find the treasure in order to keep our tax bill low.

    • Of course Michael, you’ve been out here awhile, are you getting bored? Winter time has it’s drawbacks. I can’t believe there hasn’t been a noob come out and tell us they have it all figured out, within one month, and how stupid we all are. You know it’s coming though. May or June will be here soon enough, Montana will be busy this year…

  14. To Alsetenash, I wouldnt
    wish Sciatica on my worst enemy.
    Over 22 yrs now same deal. got ok for a while
    behind glucos/chod/msm, but 3 yrs ago other side blew up with vengeance.
    best wishes to you and all searchers.

    • Sciatica sucks, one little move, and you’re on the ground in pain. It doesn’t go very well with bowling either.

    • Spallies!
      Yes, it is curious, as are the forward, preface, epilogue and colophone. All three books have subtle differences in that respect, among others…
      On a side note,
      Here’s an interesting tidbit of info…

      FFEP
      Aka: FFEP or ffep
      front free endpaper

      A common abbreviation for Front Free EndPaper. Generally, it is the first page of a book and is part of a single sheet that also spans across the inside of the frontboard (called the front pastedown) via a fold along the gutter with the purpose of connecting the boards to the stitched textblock.

      As a result of this purpose, the paper quality of the ffep is generally of a heavier weight than those used for the pages of the book, and is often decorative.

      The front free endpaper (or ffep) is also a common place to encounter signatures or inscriptions. Also, the gutter between the ffep and front pastedown is a very common place to encounter damage to a book, notably a cracked binding.

      • Thanks JDiggins… hmmm a cracked binding??? Almost makes me want to tear my book apart to see what might be sewn into the binding… Oh wait I already did that!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂

    • Yes! did you notice something else missing also?. And what do you consider the first chapter? The Forward?

      • I guess I would not consider the Forward the first chapter… cuz it’s the Forward… but its not marked Forward… So who knows???

      • What’s missing? I don’t see any copyright. It does say “All rights reserved”, but I don’t see the word copyright or the circle C symbol. I don’t know much about publishing so it might be there in a different form.

        • Let me find my book. There is something funny about the pages in the first part of the book. Anyone else notice it?

        • JW – the “circle C” symbol is found on the right biddies ear, page 20 TTOTC. In case you were wondering.

          • Sandy, thanks for the heads up. FF is so tricky. I would have missed it. I’m guessing that a good lawyer could make that hold up in court as a valid copyright. Good thing I didn’t go ahead with my plans to reprint a version in pig Latin.

            To CharlieM, I don’t see the missing parts of the book as clues. Rather they show that FF does things how he thinks things should be done, with little adherence to customary forms. I suspect that the poem fits this pattern and is a unique way of giving clues. That uniqueness means we won’t find the way to solve it by studying other types of puzzles or riddles. IMO

        • I want to share more about this.. but I’m trying to locate my book. It’s maybe hiding under my couch or something.

          • Ha Lou Lee I looked in my book I have a couple of them because I’m know to well spray thing and put them in the freezer and bathtub 🙂 All I noticed is a blank page at the first page after the decorative pages with all the illustrations…. Not sure if thats what you were referring to???

          • ou ee,
            oo aa aa ting tang walla walla bing bang. Sorry, couldn’t help chiming in! 🙂
            I’ll keep an “I” out when addressing your book location.

      • What I don’t see is, what is the point about how F’s books are laid out? It has no value relating to the Chase.

        Just say’n 😉

        • CM,

          You said “It has no value relating to the Chase”. This is not a fact, it’s your opinion, so next time please state it as such.

          That being said, what I don’t get is why would anyone discount anything Forrest says or does that is out of the ordinary like word misspellings, wrong quotes, names of paintings, saying “four” when “two” is correct, and yes, book layout.

          Until proven otherwise, I chose to assume it’s actually possible he’s trying to communicate something to us with these anomalies.

          You can assume what you want, but I sincerely believe it’s to your detriment and encourage you to reconsider.

          Pinatubocharlie

          • Pinatubocharlie,

            You said, “This is not a fact, it’s your opinion, so next time please state it as such.” At the very beginning of my post I wrote, “What I don’t see”, that is stating my opinion as it’s only coming me.

            Please be a little considerate. 🙂 You said ” I ” above 3 times in your post and never ended IMO. 🙂

        • Hey Straw…I think that a man who habitually wears a purple sweater might think Hucleberry Fenn (Finn) is important literature. And any book that your high school buddy Doug Preston writes the “forward” to is also possibly important literature.

        • I wonder if anyone ever ask Forrest if there are also hints in the poem too, not just clues?

          • Well one “hint” we know for sure!
            Riches new and old. Maybe this is a hint, not clue 5 or?

          • As far as I’ve been able to determine, no one knows if any hint has ever even been correctly identified, let alone deciphered.

            Jake

          • The only one I seen recently was someone trying to point out to AGK the differences in how Sloane died. It seems as good as any for what could be halt.

          • Ive always thought that “hint of riches new and old” was too obvious, considering how specific yet cryptically fenn chooses his words, are we to beleive he would really write the word “hint” to signify a hint? Seems contrary to the nature of fenn himself and his poem

  15. pdenver,

    On the previous Odds and Ends page you posted a link to SB 83 about Mike Kammerer.

    Since reading that SB I have always thought it contained a hint in there somewhere and though it gave what I thought were several leads, there was no pizazz in those leads if you know what I mean, except one, but I hit a dead end with it.

    I occasionally revisit certain SBs I feel are important and your post was all I needed to study SB 83 again and guess what? That dead end is gone and I finally found what I was looking for, or at least I think I have. It could be confirmation bias in terms of hints, but I can’t ignore where it seems to be taking me.

    Thank you for the suggestion. Along those lines I would also like to offer a SB suggestion to everyone. IMO if the SB is a long one, like 49 (Sweet Fragrances), then pay attention. There’s a nugget in there somewhere.

    And this goes for anything he writes, says, or posts. He’s told us not to discount the nouns in the poem, but IMO we also need to pay attention to every word wherever he “says” it.

    Good luck everyone and enjoy the Super Bowl. Sorry NE, but you’ve had your run and so I’m rooting for the Eagles, though I’m not a fan. I’m tired of seeing the same team win and just like to enjoy a good game.

    Pinatubocharlie

    • Hello Pinatubocharlie. I cannot take credit for the scrapbook suggestion. It was Jonsey1 who commented about it and I only provided the link from Dal’s blog because I could not recall reading it on Mr. Fenn’s blog.

      • Of course you’re right pd and thank you for bringing that to my attention.

        My apologies Jonesy1 for the oversight and thank you for mentioning SB 83. Along those lines I would also suggest SB 145, The Bullet Comes Home, as required reading as I believe there are more than one important hint in that lengthy post.

        Pinatubocharlie

  16. For those interested in treasures of another kind… “Lost Treasures of the Maya Snake Kings,” which airs on National Geographic on Feb. 6. There must be a hint somewhere in there.

  17. Some of you guy’s have asked me in previous comments if I will be using possible gps or any other gadgets as I put it, when I have BOTG.

    The answer is no I won’t, I will only have Forrests poem inside my head, I know where my WWWH is (Start of the poem)

    And hopefully what the Blaze is and where it is (End of the poem) with everything else fitting in between.

    My solve is not in a dangerous place and can be completed within approximately six hours round trip.

    It is a straight forward solve, however I will not take risks, I will be wearing the right gear and carrying bear spray etc.

    I don’t have bags of dosh, however this is a once in a lifetime opportunity and I’m not going to miss it for anything.

    We’re now in to February guy’s and counting down.

    Good luck to you all on the search for 2018.

    Ronnie the Scot

    • If your trip requires a 6 hour round trip, I would recommend that you either rethink your solution or stay at home and play canasta. It only takes about 15 minutes from when you leave your car to get to the treasure and that is at a slow pace. Remember this is an 80 year old man making two round trips carrying 20 pounds one way. It probably took him about 2 hours in total.

  18. Ronnie, I am quite sure others have .mentioned this this to you. : but in the mnts,
    even mid June may not be warmish.
    So far however, this is turning into a very
    moderate winter, so you might be in good luck.

    • Batty,

      Yes I agree, even over here in Scotland the Winter is very mild for the time of year.

      Although I’ve planned my trip to visit your beautiful country for middle of June, I will be keeping an eye on the weather forecast.

      I have only put a deposit down for the trip, I hope that I wouldn’t have to cancel my trip due to the weather as I would loose my deposit.

      However I would still be hoping to come to the Rockies in 2018.

      But fingers crossed this want happen, however I’m sure that all you guy’s will agree that safety comes first.

      Good luck to you Batty on the chase.

      Ronnie the Scot

  19. RE::Reading some of the above comments.
    What the hey???
    This is supposed to be fun, who really gives
    a RRB how one crosses thei i’s or dots their
    t’s ?? SHEEEEEEESH

  20. Good morning all.

    It’s been very quiet here but I suppose that’s due to the wintertime thinking. More thinking and strategizing than field adventures to talk about.

  21. I saw yesterday on a reddit thread there’s supposed to be some big update tomorrow on MW, anyone have any insider info on that? Is Forrest doing another 6 questions? I thought he was done after the last interview

    • I have been anticipating the consistent Feb 4 MW 6 questions . I hope this pattern continues for tomorrow. I think it would be very interesting this round. IMO .

    • Yes, Liam and Alsetenash, Jenny has another 6 Questions in the queue for tomorrow (Super Bowl Sunday). I’m actually kind of hoping that Forrest doesn’t provide any new hints/clues.

      • Zap, I agree, I beleive he’s done and said more than enough to aid in our search, and I also could do without more quotes to dissect and interpret lol… it’s also my hope he doesn’t feel obligated to help us on account of the recent tragedies, I’d hate for these incidents to sully what was to be his swan song… He’s given us a great gift, a once in a lifetime experience that opens our eyes to what life is really about, I think he should just be left alone By us now, left to spend time with his family and amongst his own treasures, if spending what time he has left involved with the chase is what he decides to do then great , I’m all for it, but I feel it should be his decision because he wants to, not because he feels obligated to

        • Magpie,

          Great comment and we’ll said.

          Forrest shouldn’t be forced in to saying anymore if he doesn’t want too.

          Now’s the time to leave the guy alone to spend whatever precious time he has left with his family.

          Ronnie the Scot

      • Thanks for the info ,Zap. I look forward for them tomorrow. Perceiving a hint or a clue in any of his offerings in Q&A’s or any communications, is an individual perception , in my thinking. There may be something meritable to one but nothing to another person. How can a person really know if he has offered a hint or clue? I see hints in some SB’s but not that many. But again, it’s just my perception. I don’t see him being very direct with hints if he even does offer anymore . An imagination is a personal thing that is not so easily projected perfectly to someone else. IMO .

  22. Greetings, my name is Kristina from Kansas (hence KK)

    I am not “new” to the search, nor new to this blog, I have just been a lurker up to this point. I am curious to know and can’t find it anywhere else within the blog, how often Mr. Fenn checks his email in regards to TTOTC. I am not requesting clues or information, only providing information that I believe he will find quite substantial, which is why I am curious.

  23. if you have never read some of the ‘humorous’ articles listed under ‘more info…’
    i’ll suggest these oldies on a Saturday morning-

    a non-outdoorsy British writer comes to the USA and joins the search.
    https://dalneitzel.com/2016/04/12/brits/

    at nearly $65 a pop Forrest’s book TFTW is unaffordable for many… Until Elmer de Hory produced paperback clones of the important book.
    https://dalneitzel.com/2014/02/07/new_paperback_edition_of_tftw/

    did you know that some very famous people have been looking for the chest?
    https://dalneitzel.com/2014/03/05/hitler-reacts-to-new-information-from-forrest/

  24. It isn’t Sunday yet? I thought Sunday’s had dibs on the funnies! Lol, I had not seen those in my exploration of your blog. I think there is more ground here to cover than what the TTOTC offers, lol.

  25. An excerpt from a post on being thorough. I didn’t write it but I agree with their line of thinking:

    “What people don’t understand is that when you’re out there in the woods, searching gets very difficult. Even an acre can take you hours when you’re intent on performing a thorough sweep (you don’t want to tell yourself you really didn’t search an area well enough if you’re serious about finding the treasure!).
    You bend down, you climb up, you survey the scene and see a thousand places a small treasure chest could be hiding. Most people lose motivation immediately when they realize the thing is not shimmering in the sun and all they have to do is bend down and pick it up.
    Looking under every rock, overhang, bushel of grass, piñon tree, or nook is really far more difficult in reality than it is when you imagine it in your head. Being thorough is exhausting work.
    So it’s quite possible that the poem has been solved, but that whoever solved it was too lazy to put in the hard work to uncover it once they were in the right search zone.”

    • I agree on the context of being thorough. This isn’t my first rodeo in this context, although my other “hunts” have been limited to a much smaller area.

      That being said, from my perspective location, everything Forrest has said about how to find the treasure has been straightforward and accurate. He said if you follow the clues in order consecutively, it will take you right to the treasure. My “solve” takes me directly to a specific location, at which point I will need to locate the “Blaze” of which I already know what I am looking for. So, it is reasonable that it could require more time but not a substantial amount in locating the Blaze, that it will take to get there. Someone said above something to the effect of the location being a small area, but the search around it much larger.

    • Randawg…interesting excerpt…sounds vaguely familiar. Many have said similar things over the years.
      Indulgence is indeed very small in relation to the entire four state search area…that is true. I believe that the “correct” solve will not require that searcher to rip apart or frantically do a grid search of the correct spot. If I am wrong…this whole thing is a waste of time.

      • Ues, if you have to rummage around the wilderness, then it sounds like you dont have your blaze and you wouldnt accept your solve as a fail.

        • Questions with Forrest (MW 2016)

          Mr. Fenn: How far is the chest located from the blaze? ~ casey
          Casey, I did not take the measurement, but logic tells me that if you don’t know where the blaze is it really doesn’t matter. If you can find the blaze though, the answer to your question will be obvious. Does that help?f

          • Kira,

            IMHO, the chest is located 200′ from the Blaze. The poem tells us this.

            ~ Wisconsin Mike

          • Wisconsin Mike, since you have told us the poem says 200′ from blaze to TC would you tell us what line gives you that hint?
            Appreciate it.
            Rich

      • Searchers have been close to the spot. Mr Fenn told us so. I don’t think that finding the Blaze automatically means you’ll find the chest.
        “I don’t feel that I’ve given it away. Whoever finds it is gonna to earn it.”

        • That is a great ATF comment Randawg…but I believe the “…earn it.” part is about solving the clues vs. having to rip-search an entire area. Fenn’s clarification comment about the 12 foot debacle says a lot.
          As far as we know up to present…folks have been roughly 200′ away…first two(2) clues and went on by. That does not sound like a “correct” solve.
          He cannot imagine someone getting within 12′ and not finding it. But who the heck knows….

        • Hi ken: on the plus side, if you can narrow down the chest’s location to a 500′ x 500′ square, you’ll only have to walk ~2 miles to “grid it” to 12-foot precision.

          • Zap…You know, I have in the past thought that way about how to approach the search. Admittedly…I have gone BOTG with not much more than a string of plausible clues/ideas. You know how that turned out!
            I am now determined to not fall for my own tricks I play on myself! No grid searching for me!

          • Also Zap…I think it is crucial that a searcher has to be confident what/where the first two clues are. So far, Fenn’s comments seem to support the idea that the 200’ers did not know. Knowing would be huge.

      • I agree with ken here, once the poems been solved, and every clue followed precisely it should lead to an exact spot that’s somehow marked… it shouldn’t be necessary to frantically turn over every rock, and comb every square inch of an area… but I say that based on a preconceived notion of what I think a treasure hunt should be, and in how I would write a poem to a treasure, it may or may not be the case here, only the author knows for sure

    • Within my experience searching my location, I can relate to this, Randawg.

      Also..

      “Your destination is small, but its location is huge”

      Not matter how extensive my investigations of my area from the armchair ; my first BOTG was an eye and mind opener. I was at first deflated upon arrival for the task of searching because of the terrain and vastness of what I thought was going to be a relatively straight forward and easy search area.

      To me, the searching at location is just as difficult as figuring out the poem. Being as it is that the only way to know yourself sure of anything certain is to find it . I feel that self sabatoge is my greatest potential nemesis in this chase. IMO .

      I will give myself one more search for it. I will have tortured myself enough lol. This has been much fun though.

      • Randawg. I agree that this chase TC hunt is far more difficult than the simple literary appearance of the poem . It’s solving the meanings of the poems clues, finding the where ( location) of your solving of the clues , then searching that area/location. First of all, it’s identifying what are the 9 clues in the poem ,past the only certain one that is WWWH. Yet, even what does WWWH mean?

        So, this is really , really difficult- just not impossible because it’s within the realm of possibilities. 🙂 Plus, nothing is certain in knowledge, wisdom or fact untill the glorious end!

        The only way to prove anything is by BOTG.

        This is really a tuff cold case file. It’s worth every calorie the protein brain can utilize lol.

        Personally, it’s the BOTG effort that I find the most difficult so far ; given that I haven’t reached the glorious end in my BOTG efforts .

        I love The Challenge .

        IMO .

        • It’s nice to have a positive response. I find it interesting that as we enter the 8th search year so many seem to over-complicate the first part of the puzzle and then oversimplify the ending.
          Finding the chest sitting near the blaze in plain view is a nice fantasy but I doubt Mr Fenn would make the end of his Chase that easy.
          Good luck to you Mr Alsetenash.

        • Subtle, but understood . . . reminds me of the other brand (with the pic of the maiden). Have you ever done that silly little trick with the pic?

          OH! I should say something about the hunt.
          Precise timing could help when BOTG searching. If the poem has been correctly and thoroughly solved, the timing isn’t critical for success . . . but could help to provide some dramatic excitement.
          The above is part of my opinion.

    • “”You can’t have a “correct solve” unless you can knowingly go to within several steps of the treasure chest.” ff

  26. Thanks Alsetenash.
    Mr Fenn is a treasure hunter and amateur archaeologist. Remember in SB 74 Fenn had a handwritten map and the exact battle location but after searching for 20 days he could not find Trooper Gregg’s grave?
    I believe that solving the poem is only the first part of the puzzle. Mr Fenn made his quest more challenging than most people think.
    Didn’t he say: “it’s difficult to find but it certainly isn’t impossible”?
    (IMO)

  27. Okay guy’s,

    I would like to get your thoughts on the following scenario;

    Forrest has just given his last ever interview, on the very last question he let’s it slip where the T.C is hidden

    Now 100,000s searchers know the exact spot where the T.C is hidden.

    What do you guy’s think would happen next?

    Ronnie the Scot

    • Sorry, Ronnie;

      Forrest is FAR too savvy for that to happen. He may be 87, but as far as I can tell, is still as sharp as a tack. This is one “WhatIf” I will not play. JDA

      • JDA,

        It is a what if.

        Most of you guy’s will know Forrest better than me.

        It’s just the way my mind works.

        Ronnie the Scot

    • Well I’m 2,000 miles away so it’d be over for me, I think it would be a mad dash for the treasure and it probably wouldn’t go smoothly, some people will do unspeakable things when blinded by the glare of gold. Hope is a great thing but if not kept in check it can quickly turn to desperation

      • That’s sad. The whole objective is to get folks to enjoy interacting with Nature and Wilderness.

        People blinded by glare and turning to desperation best just stay home and play canasta.

    • Ronnie,

      After creating the Chase and investing so much time and energy into ensuring he doesn’t provide too much information to searchers, there’s not even a remote possibility that ff would give away the location. IMO

      So, you can still come to the US to get it!

      Covert One

    • Ronnie

      This is just my opinion only:

      Forrest has already revealed the location of the treasure, and he left a big hint in the new book OUAW. When I saw it I was really amazed.

      Franklin

    • Which gave away the location, “Grizzly bears are something to think about” or “simplify”?
      (FYI, Remember to add ‘IMO’ to such remarks).

    • Ronnie, this is really weird, but over on reddit, I saw someone post a very similar question a few hours ago. Strange.
      “Double charmed, heh. This is just a hypothetical question. Would you all feel cheated if you found out a select few searchers were given a major hint towards clue 9 and how to find the chest? If it’s true 50,000 people have searched, I’m going to assume at least 5 people made it arrived at to clue 8 accidentally.”

      • Lady v, I saw that post as well and found it odd… the poster mentions in a follow up post “hearsay/rumors” but didn’t really elaborate on it further, he did say “hypothetically” though, he could just be hyphtocizing about rumors lol, not sure how imagining hyphothetical heresay helps in the chase when we have enough actual heresay to keep us busy lol

    • I do think something close to this is a reasonable question. I think Forrest wants it found before he passes. He’ll never know if it ever was otherwise. And as far as legacy, with him gone and not responding to questions or doing interviews, the whole Chase may just die away. Plus, it gives him the peace of mind that those claiming that he never hid it were wrong.

      I think he’ll drip out some more hints, but never just name the spot. If he were to do that, everyone should hope that that Chief of Police for New Mexico gets there first and declares it a crime scene before it actually becomes one.

    • Ronnie, in my opinion, nothing would change if your hypothetical scenario were to take place. There would be those that would pick apart what Mr. Fenn states and twist it so severely that no one could recognize what the original statement was, also there would be those that would go to the exact spot and not find TC and say someone else found it. We are all guilty of over-complicating or over-simplifying that which we read or see with our own eyes.

  28. Well, Ronnie, I have a question
    for you, If that happend while you were here, would you trade in your black/green /white tartan for a rainbow colored Searcher Clan
    one? ha.

  29. Hello Ronnie

    This is my opinion only:

    Forrest has already revealed the location of the treasure. Also he left a big hint in the new book, “OUAW.

    Franklin

      • Eh, R–B, are you sure you know what Currant is? I’ve had it as a tea, Black Currant tea to be exact. The place – Jason’s Deli. Oh yummy!

      • dandelions, daisies “Forrest Fenn’s Summer of Logging” on tarryscant

        I seem to remember a SB where he talked about various wildflowers in passing

      • botanical name for daffodil: narcissus

        Per Greek mythology – fellow who falls in love with an image of himself reflecting in the water. hmm.

    • I don’t remember where in the book or the exact phrase, but in his book TTOTC, he does mention Mountain Laurels.

      • TTOTC pp. 116-117: “I know Olga’s spirit was pleased when her white bone fragments flittered through the small window and softly floated down to a place where the chamisa and mountain laurels were blooming, and chipmunks scurried around all year.”

        Chamisa (Ericameria nauseosa) is a yellow shrub in the sunflower family, also known as rubber rabbitbrush. Texas mountain laurel (Dermatophyllum secundiflorum) is a flowering, evergreen shrub in the pea family. It has extremely fragrant purple flowers that smell like grape soda. Wink-wink!

  30. If anyone finds it this summer just don’t announce it til late November early December so everyone gets in their final search lol

    • Magpie: a wrinkle. What if the chest is found in June, and someone later dies searching for it in October who wouldn’t have gone out searching if they had known the chest had been found? Pretty awful scenario for the finder.

  31. Ohhhh, this is what happens when I can’t sleep. I roughlly figured the size of the
    search area conservatively, to be about
    95,000 sq. miles. or about the size of the
    UK. ,, However that is planer, only knows
    what it would be if you steam rolled it flat.

  32. You know the chapter name “Jump-Starting the learning curve” on page 23 is appropriate. Why? Because the lead in sentence and the first stanza basically tell you how to use the poem. A dry run of sorts. The real meat of the clues of course begin at “Begin IT” (Defintion of IT = Used to refer to that one previously mentioned. Used of a nonhuman entity; an animate being whose sex is unspecified, unknown, or irrelevant; a group of objects or individuals; an action; or an abstraction.)

    In other words IT is known by the time you are beginning at stanza 2, because IT was defined in stanza 1.

    Forrest has jump started our learning curve. To a degree… Of course we all know what degree is, and there are 60 minutes to a degree, 60 seconds to a minute”. Food for thought.

    • @Wymustigo, the word “It” can be used to refer to something previously mention and / or something easily identified. Therefore the “it” doesn’t always have to be known or mentioned prior to, as it could be something that is easily identified or understood in the writing that follows it.

      • Read the entire post in my link just below. The comment you replied to was out of context, I made it to my thread that dal deleted and asked me to move.

      • WyMustIGo;

        It never ceases to amaze me how many interpretations this chase brings to 24 little lines.

        “So I wrote a poem containing nine clues that if followed precisely, will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure.”f With this simple lead-in, Forrest created the chase. Some are poem purists, other’s use everything but the kitchen sink. Some say there are “Hints” in the poem, some say they are in the books and in his ATF comments. Stir and mix – Bake for a while and see what comes out. It MAY be a cake, or it may be a runny gob of goo. Who knows.

        You have obviously put in a LOT of time reading the book, and extracting what you feel are important elements. YEA for you.

        All I can say is that I do not use a single element that you have outlined in my solve – in MY solve. Does that make me right and you wrong? – or visa-versa? Certainly not. All it says is that we have VERY different views of what a “correct” solve will include.

        Interesting reading – Thanks for posting. JDA

  33. If I were writing a poem such as this I would first put the words or sentences in that I wanted. And if a word doesn’t flow right or rhyme accordingly go to a thesaurus and find another word for it perhaps a word that is odd. Then tweek the sentence to fit. I think that is why some of the sentences sound like ole English.

  34. One way in, one way out?

    Something I’ve been thinking about is whether the “canyon down” is a box canyon, or perhaps just not a through canyon. Many canyons have access from both the top and bottom of the canyon, but far fewer have access from only the top.

    Just some thoughts in logically reducing the search areas.

    Making some assumptions here:
    1. Canyon Down is descending
    2. Canyon Down is to be driven, perhaps 10 miles (NFBTFTW)
    3. There are no shortcuts or alternate routes to the TC
    4. The path in the poem must be followed to the TC

    This would tell me to look for a canyon that only has access from higher elevation. Perhaps a box canyon. Perhaps the road down ends at a point of inaccessibility (waterfall, rough terrain, etc). Also the road would be along the bottom of the canyon rather than along the rim since you need to access a creek from wherever you put-in (park).

    • Hi Michael;

      Nice analysis, I just happen to not agree much with your results. Since :my interpretation of Begin it wwwh,= the place that a “warm” creek (Warm because it is not deep) converges with a larger stream, creek or river – I feel that there is water in the “Canyon down.” I agree that you can “drive” the canyon, whether the road is on the rim, or alongside the water (my route is beside the water).
      NF,BTFTW – I agree is about 10 miles.
      “Put in …Meek …no paddle up your creek.” This tells me that below hoB, you see a creek that joins your “canyon water”. – Take this creek (passing hoB) past the meek place, to the end. It is here that I park, and begin BotG. Just how my solve works out.

      Good luck with your search and TRY to STAY SAFE once you do go out – JDA

      • We’re actually in agreement (mostly). I also think WWWH is associated somehow with the canyon water.
        In your solve, is an alternate route or shortcut to the TC available (e.g. driving up the canyon)? I feel that the correct solve only allows for one practical way in and out.

        • Is a shortcut available? Simple answer = NO
          One way in, one way out.

          Once you park, you put BotG – COULD you skirt a clue or two and hike a more direct route to the TC? – maybe… but ONLY if you were absolutely sure about a couple of the clues – and without having done a FULL walk-through, nothing would be a certainty – JDA

          • Thanks JDA. I’m just trying a different logical approach to narrow search areas. I think that finding drivable canyons at least 10 miles long is a good starting point. From there, I look for an associated WWWH.

          • This quote throws a monkey wrench into a lot of my solves:

            “When you hid your treasures, did you take the same path that is described in the poem, or were you able to skip some of the steps because of your familiarity with the area? Thank you, Curtis.”
            “The clues should be followed in order Curtis. There is no other way to my knowlege. FF”

          • Michael;

            We all have our own approaches. When Forrest says, “Begin it…” I take him at his word. So, I began at wwwh. True, there are thousands (or more) wwwh in the Rickies, but (for me) there was a “Hint” – “In the wood”. I found a VERY obscure definition of these words that led me to a geographical area in Wyoming. From there, it was easy to find my wwwh.

            IF I had looked for a 10 mile long canyon first, I would still be looking. For me, at least, finding a 10 mile (or more) long canyon would never have worked, but that is just me and MY solve.

            Good luck to you in your approach. JDA

    • Down could also be South. Maybe you go down in the sense of the word and also go South.
      Also, canyon could be what you describe, but also a gully, gulch, valley, etc…
      So, it really could be anything. If you are trying to solve for it, thinking it’s a clue might not work out. With the new 6 questions with Jenny, trying to solve all the clues will not work out. Not saying that the canyon part cannot be solved, just that trying to solve all the clues or decipher them will not work out.
      If you have not done BotG yet, your looking at solving the poem and finding that “X”.
      Looking at what you are assuming, it could be in the “saddle” of the mountains. In between two or three mountains. Try this, draw an infinity symbol, (an 8 on it’s side), looks like a saddle. Might be a hint. The end is ever…
      Lol, I hope we don’t have to get into infinity with this puzzle, don’t think so though. I don’t think some redneck with 12 kids and a pickup will quite understand the fact that with infinity, there are as many even numbers as there are even and odd numbers. Might be too confusing…

      • I understand it and I’m a redneck with 4 dogs and a 50 year old pick up , that’s kinda close lol

        • If you said your 50 year old pickup wasn’t running and on your front lawn, I might believe it. You get a pass if there is a gun rack in it. :), as long as one of the dogs sleeps on the porch all day, and you know what’s in moonshine…

  35. Soo…heres something fun I just found reading the McGarrity interview(to me at least)

    Go to tarryscant dot com and put “climax” into the search bar. Then scroll to that part of the interview and read Fs comments about the ’60’ mark.

    Then I’d like to offer this:

    Sooo…naturally I couldnt resist and had to find the 60% mark in ttotc.

    Page 88.

    Midnight on the jungle floor experiencing the effects of Operation Arc Light waiting for rescue and contemplating his fate.

    No. Not saying its a clue to the chest….but I believe its a HINt as far as the WAY he thinks….and I DO like the 60% mark in the poem as well as its climax. I dont think it was an accident that the climax was exactly there in the book…and I dont think it was a coincidence that he quotes the percentage and. Probably devilishly smiled as he told the authors how he didnt have to follow the rules.(que the recitation of the crocodile poem face 🙂 )

    It makes me smile and reminds me how calculated and precise the man is in the placement of his words. Both literally and figuratively.

    Just fun to find evidence of his wit, and examples of how he thinks. Hes too much haha. Love those easter egg aberrations/ hints, and how they can help point the way at HOW to maybe solve a clue without actually providing any direction at all.

    Ill take line 14 being the ‘turning point’ in the poems round trip journey for $88 dollers, Alex.

    • I’ll take the word “that” in the poem to be key for $113 dollars, Alex. He is witty. You are right Jamie, it’s a reason to not take what you read at face value so quickly with him. All this talk about being simple, and not reading into what he is commenting on just doesn’t seem to be him. Think he enjoys it. The multiple ways to interpret. I guess it is kind of funny to see what people come up with. Almost like he enjoys questioning the “no-it-alls”.
      I like the place that is “dear” to him. He does like his misspelled words. And, who likes “commas” anyway…

      • Charlie

        Does anyone you know of have a list of all the misspelled words Forrest has used? Maybe we should be making a word out of the missing and/or added letters. Just a crazy thought.

        Franklin

        • Franklin –

          I believe Zap has a full list of mispelled and reversed words and sayings.

          I don’t know if he would share that.
          I think Dal would make that a page if someone was willing to share those.

          Lugnutz

        • Hi Franklin/Lugnutz: I don’t actually maintain a separate database of the misspellings, made-up words, reversed sayings, missing hyphens and apostrophes and so forth. I suppose if there was enough interest, I could tally them all from the various (large) documents I *do* maintain. But it would be a pretty long list.

      • @Charlie- I think he misspelled right in the tangled cord scrapbook…with a quote similar to

        “Theres a write way to do things and a wrong one”

        …but now I’m not so sure it was misspelled. What do you think?

        @Ken
        Knuckle Down.

      • Charlie: “I guess it is kind of funny to see what people come up with”.

        I hope everyone will reveal their solves as to how they read the poem once the hubbub overIndulgence’s resting place dies down(whenever/wherever found).

        I think it would be a treasure trove of its own- via the ‘wealth of knowlege’ gleaned from a peek into the human psyche. Can you imagine the places people have taken Forrest in their searches…and how they were led there?
        Psychologist will have a field day! 🙂

    • Jamie, I’m working on your (wait, let me reword that), I’m working on your thought of 60%. Think I’m coming up with the same stuff you are, pretty interesting. Actually, 60% would be 88.80. When down that road and found myself in Laos…The comment of “right straight” is still something to look into. I think it’s a right straight triangle (right triangle) he is thinking about. B-52, 60, 88, 88.80, 105, 750, enough numbers to work with. With “B” being capitalized, maybe that is the angle B.
      Already have a solve, fun to look into other things, even if they turn out to be rabbit holes. Curious, what made you look that up at Tarry Scant? Confidence is the key. Knowledge, training, and a good ego helps.
      Interesting, 88.80, 3 eights. Maybe “X” is here somewhere.
      8008, hmmm, researching…

  36. A good friends had told me there are no plans for a Fennboree this year. Given f’s anticipation of Indulgence being fou,d this summer, I would suggest having a Farewell Fennboree this year. I hope all fare well. Any past Fennboree coordinators care to chime in?

    • Slurbs –
      Since you missed it – Cynthia will be in West Yellowstone June 22 – 24 – asking for people to join her. Desertphile is busy.

      I say, everyone who can, should join Cynthia in West Yellowstone on June 22 – 24, and make IT Fennboree 2018
      I am going to do my best to be there – JMO – JDA

      • Well JDA, Yellowstone is to far for me. I’m sure gonna miss meeting you. I guess I’ll just go to Hyde park and sit by my little fire and reflect back on last years Fennboree.
        “ the solitude of the mountains, the crackling of the fire, and of course a hotdog on a stick” PRICELESS !!!! “

        To me… that’s a treasure in itself…

        See ya my friend….

        • I will also miss meeting you Focused. I feel that this one will be very special – Who knows – JDA

  37. athank you Forrest Got mom home from sfmc hospital yesterday going to read her once upon awhile ill have her read to me too but thanks for the work you have shared my sister really put her in bad health but she is fighting through wish us luck be good to yourselves good day to all

    • My prayers are with you and your family Jeff. It was great meeting you at the Tesuque Village Market…. take care my friend… until next time… see ya

  38. Has anyone discussed the scripture reference(s) in the first stanza of the poem? I have not seen it discussed anywhere, nor does any Google associate it with the poem.

    • KK

      If you are speaking of treasures new and old then yes.

      I have brought it up and no one cares. They dismiss it saying Fenn isn’t religious.

      I think there is a direct quote from Fenn about not needing to know bible verses.

      Lugnutz

      • Hi Lugnutz, Yes, that is what I was referring to. I saw the quote about not needing to know bible verses for the solve. I’m not sure it necessarily helps solve the poem itself, rather seems to be a nod to how one might approach coming into a new treasure as it relates to the TC. I find it thought provoking. I’m not sure what your feelings are, but after reading TTOTC, I felt it was about a deeply personal journey towards faith. IMO a great deal of figuring out the correct solve has to do with listening as much to what he says directly, as to what he is not saying at all or saying indirectly. I think it all has meaning. Thanks for your response.

        • KK
          If you apply the verse to the chase this could be saying Fenn somehow has obtained ownership of the property where the chest is and there is no worries about where you find the chest, however, it would then be on private land, so there is trespassing issues because you dont know that Fenn and or trust possess this property you are violating.
          So knowing it in this context brings truth to not needing to know bible verses as it wont help find the chest but also other worries.

          • Hi Kia, That is an interesting point you make. I have limited background in Christianity, but everything I read in TTOTC points me to a religious pilgrimage so to speak. I agree, I don’t think the many religious inferences in TTOTC will necessarily point one to the treasure, but I think it is a strong message he is sending in regards to not only finding the treasure, but seeking it as well.

          • KK –

            I do not think Fenn is religious. He isn’t a man trying to prepare for his trip Up.

            Rather I think he has a diverse knowlege base and uses all of it in his way. It forms a fingerprint that is unique to Fenn.

            Some people Fly Fish
            Some people know Archeology
            Some know Indian history, history of the west.
            Some of read Cormac McCarthy
            Some make Bronzes
            Some spent summers in Yellowstone
            Some served in the Air Force
            Some Pilot small aircraft
            Some move to New Mexico
            Some have written a book
            And some have spent time thinking about the meaning behind the words that men wrote in the books that later formed the Bibile.

            Lugnutz

      • In my opinion when Mr. Fenn was told he was going to die of cancer he may have been thinking about the end of his life and if he would be let into Heaven (as many people do when they are facing death). He wanted to take it with him so if he thought he was going to Heaven then I believe his spot maybe his Heaven on Earth. In my opinion he hid the treasure and named it indulgence as a way of possible forgiveness for his sins (plenary indulgence). His church is in the mountains and he went alone in there (to pray/confess?) The spot is very special and private to him and only a person in his shoes would understand why he did it. A line in the poem says the end is ever drawing nigh….Draw nigh to god and he will draw nigh to you. (Omega is the beginning and the end). CE5 is written inside the chest: In my opinion this points to Year C Epiphany 5th Sunday (Luke 5:1-11) Fisher of Men….could this be what he is attributed to do (epitaph)

        • Correction on CE5 inside the chest, it’s on the latch and Forrest has explained his reasoning for CE5 as an accounting code so I’ll have to take back my thoughts on that as well. In any case that is my general thinking and it leads me to search in or near Paradise.

          • Josh, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I felt the same way reading the book. I am always seeking to understand, and while I am a spiritual person, organized religion is a struggle for me. I appreciate you thoughts.

        • I think it’s interesting that religious people have such a hard time imagining the thoughts and motivations of the non-religious. In spite of a Texas upbringing, I doubt Forrest is the sort of man who would trouble himself with thoughts about prospects for admission to an imaginary place upon his passing. Even if he conceded that such a place might exist, his attitude about “getting in” probably mirrors his concerns about when the treasure chest is found: “It is out of my hands now.”

          • Thanks for the reply. I am not religious, not even baptized. I agree with you even in some cases on this website people have insisted they are correct with their conclusion’s but that is not me. I just wanted to share my thoughts. In my opinion there are some pages in TTOC and things that Forrester has said that draw me to certain conclusions

          • Remember one person imaginary place is anothers imagimary chest. Perhaps some tolerance is needed.
            But anyone going down the religous line of the search… well Fenn has already stated that it wasnt.
            There is the woman who put forth finding that clues point to religous items and its already been negated.
            This rabbit hole should have been covered by now.

        • Josh

          Forrest said he believes in a “higher hand”, as he describes it in his own way. It can be found on TarryScant.com by searching for “higher hand”. He mentioned it twice in a long paragraph in this interview

          https://youtu.be/8RzrIu3hMec

          Begin at minute 27:55, but I recommend watching or reading the entire interview.

          Franklin

        • Josh;

          To quote Forrest: “My church is in the mountains and along the river bottoms where dreams and fantasies alike go to play” f – JDA

  39. Hi Lugnutz, I agree he is well versed in many different areas, and being well versed in the Bible and using it to overlap a poem for a treasure hunt doesn’t mean he is a religious man, but it also doesn’t mean he isn’t, either. I can’t help to ponder if he is a religious man, and there is meaning behind his inferences, then what message is he trying to deliver to clearly what is a very large audience.

    • I should add that I am not a religious person myself, but I am a searcher of all things. Perhaps I am projecting myself into my own solutions.

      • Hi KK –

        There is a lot to look at and consider over time working on Forrest. On idea I had that he was using someone else’s story as a way to build the poem and clues. On candidate in that list would be the hermit Giovanni Maria de Agostini.

        Hermit Peak in NEw MExico is named for him.

        These days I might call this a rabbit hole. I have, and you can, build a convincing case for the treasure being in the HErmit’s cave up there near the peak.

        You should read up on the Hermit, fascinating story.

        Lugnutz Cranbrook Dodge

    • GCG –

      Well
      That’s the thing about guys who sometimes spell things wrong on purpose.
      You just never know for sure.

      Lugnutz

  40. Thanks Lugnutz, it sounds fascinating to an introvert such as myself. I will look it up! Yes, this quest is indeed a rabbit hole, but I am thoroughly enjoying the educational travel. I have learned so much, it has broadened my horizons in many areas. That is a treasure in and of itself.

  41. Be careful…Don’t turn this into a discussion of religion or politics…There are other blogs for that..

    • Hi Dal,

      I AM in Absolute agreement and understanding of “Be careful”. But certainly that doesn’t mean you Deny the ‘possibility’ that a “Higher Hand” played a role (roll, or maybe even a Rolle) in Forrest’s choice of where to place the chest? He is the one that chose to mention his “church” and the “big picture”, coincidentally, I believe it will be found in the same setting as his “church”.

      And although I can not admittingly Confirm at this point in time, I do hereby Consecrate the “Higher Hand” was Crucial as a Guiding Light on my own Passage of Revival, um…I mean… retrieval!

      Here’s to all finding…Peace! 🙂

  42. “As-a hard as I-ah try, I-ah can’t make-ah heads or tails-ah of-ah
    the poem. Forrest-ah Fenn is a genius-ah”

    –Pope Francis

  43. So I feel like I need to contribute some of my thoughts on solving the actual poem itself. I have enjoyed reading about the places other people have searched, or are looking at, and what lead you there. This is clearly a group of creative, intelligent, and diverse thinkers! I am not going to disclose much about my own current search location, which I know everyone understands. These are just my thoughts on some of the clues and my experience as I searched for my solve.

    I figured out the HOB clue before I figured anything else out. BUT it did not lead me to my solve or anywhere close to my current solve until I figured out WWWH and was able to “marry” the two together. I was actually searching in a completely different state initially, then chose to broaden my search area and try other states. You can’t narrow down with certainty the state to search in until you solve HOB. Then you have to answer the next clue in order to confirm the state you should be searching in.

    To solve, you do have to be able to follow the clues in consecutive order and it does have to make sense, (but it doesn’t necessarily mean you can’t solve the clues out of order, so if you have ideas on one keep them in the back of your mind). Once I found my search area by solving WWWH (a LARGE location), I was initially was led astray on some of the clues by the wording in the poem. One solution would kind of fit, but not IN ORDER. I had to continue looking and considering different perspectives on the wording and options in that area until I was able to “marry” another clue….and so forth and so on. When looking at it from my solve perspective, it the solutions to the clues are very simple and concise.

    They didn’t require counting words, syllables, or figuring/assigning numbers. There are subtle hints in the book that can reinforce (my) solve if you know how to see them, but they are single clues and not attached to one another in any certain way (that I can see). They do not necessarily go in consecutive order with the poem. I do believe they were dropped intentionally as they relate to the stories he chose to share with us. I don’t think the order of the chapters has anything to do with solving the poem. I just think he wrote the book as his memories of stories came to him.

    As always, thanks for letting me share my thoughts. As vague as they are, I hope they help someone else. Happy Hunting.

  44. OK,
    Somebody earlier in the Forum suggested that perhaps the importance of home of Brown was overrated, well it is most certainly not!

    I have stated earlier that becoming fluent in Fenn-eese can be incredibly helpful in improving ones confidence, that your solve is correct. Or in other words, the more Forrest’s cryptic answers make sense to you the more likely it is that perhaps your solve or ideas on how to solve the poem could be correct…

    In that light, I have been having troubles fully understanding this Q&A’s answer by Forrest:

    “If you are sure about the location of home of Brown why are you concerned about where warm waters halt? But to answer your question, sure you could and a few searchers might throw in some gas money for a percentage of the take. Good luck.f”

    Until today!!!

    So here is the interpretation of this answer:
    Its unlikely that you can determine what the poem means by “home of Brown” with out first solving the clues prior to it and particularly WWWH.

    However if you did have the Correct interpretation of “hoB” then, YES, you could reverse engineer the location of WWWH

    and IF? You did all this, then the likelihood of you finding the Treasure Chest is SO HIGH, you could COUNT on it!!!!!!

    This means, that however it is we are intended to solve the clues in the poem, WWWH & hoB are the most important components…

    And based on my solve – I would concur with this, albeit there are 3 more key things necessary to come home with the prize…

    GCG

    • I still maintain that nobody is going to figure out home of Brown without first figuring out WWWH. Forrest, in my opinion, was responding to a hypothetical situation that will never happen. Just as the odds against guessing the right blaze are billions-to-one, the only thing that singles out THE home of Brown from the millions of other potential homes of Brown is that the prior clues put you there. It is not a unique place in my opinion.

      • Disagree Zap. It is a unique place. With so many in the Rockies, the one would be unique. Only in the sense that you have the right spot. Wwwh, hoB, the blaze, nothing about them is really that important. Just clues on the right path. When f started this, he didn’t say wwh, hoB, the blaze, those all came after, he said I have a spot and I was going to make it work. I don’t doubt that he had pictures of the spot or surrounding area to think of possible things to say, but it’s all about the spot. I’m sure, on the path to the chest, there could actually be many clues to help a searcher. So 9 may stand out, doesn’t mean that more would not help or be there. The big problem now is that searchers still think they could solve all the clues without BotG. If they do go BotG, they look for what they think are clues when they are, big mistake, IMO. The poem solve gives us the spot, who cares about everything else? Just places to take pictures. Clues 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,who cares? The spot and the 9th clue, all we have to think about. We will see the others, unless the poem solves for some of those clues by direction or distance, the places didn’t exist when he was a boy, but yet the spot did.
        The thought that hoB is a clue is going to be the undoing of a lot of solves, IMO. The only thing that will single out some home of Brown will not be the clues before, only the end spot will. What if hoB is right at the spot? If it’s not a clue and that line is meant to be read in the future tense? You cannot have the right hoB, blaze without the correct wwwh. You cannot have the correct wwwh without the correct spot. You have to see from the end to get the beginning to find the end…IMO. Everybody should first have the spot, the correct solve, before knowing wwh, the blaze, whatever. That is the only way to find these things, if the searcher doesn’t, lol, they are wrong, IMO. If you disagree, then I wish you a very fun and relaxing vacation….

        • WOW charlie;

          I have to disagree with almost everything you said.

          You make it sound like the only way to read a mystery story is to go to the last page, find out “Who done it”, and then throw the book away – to heck with who the characters are, and what relationship they had with the deceased.

          wwwh IS a special place to Forrest, just as is hoB, meek place, End place etc. Forrest didn’t need pictures to remind him of these places, they were etched in his mind, in his precious memories from childhood, and later as an adult – or so I believe.

          He mentioned these “landmarks”, not as way-marks on a trip, but as memory places – each is important. Finding the correct wwwh is important, but then discovering WHY it is important to Forrest is just as important. Just like in my hypothetical mystery story, Learning who the “wife” is may be important, but understanding the relationship between the wife and the deceased makes the killing understandable.

          All just my opinion, but an opinion that I may one day be able to justify – JDA

          • I said it was unique because there is only one. Why did he say if you had the correct hoB who cares about wwwh?
            Why would he say that BotG are needed for some of the clues?
            How do you solve the poem starting at the end. I think your interpretation of what I said is giving you problems. I’ll try to make it simple.
            The poem does not give all the info to solve all the clues. So, not every clue can be solved. If that is the case, how do you follow the clues to the chest? You can’t, because you will not know all the clues.
            He said he wrote a poem containing 9 clues that if followed precisely. If you cannot solve for all the clues, then he is talking about the POEM being followed precisely.
            To find where to start, you have to solve the poem. Solving the poem gives you a spot, an “X” on a map.
            A searcher then would use a map and route a path how to get there.
            That path has a start point, a wwwh. You did not solve for wwwh, nothing told you what it is, you deciphered/found wwh by finding the end point, the spot where the chest is.
            You will now go on your path until you get to the spot. With this BotG, not sitting in a car, you will find his references to some of the clues. The ones to small for Google Earth, or hidden by trees, probably.
            Fine, forget the pictures, (even though etched in his mind is a picture in the mind), I’m sure he knows what the area looks like, his stories reference those “way-marks”.
            The whole thing is what he has been saying, put an “X” on the map, solve the poem. Who cares what the clues are if I could go right straight to it? You cannot figure out the clues going from one clue to another. For one thing, you only know of two clues. For another, he said, you need BotG to figure some of the clues. How can you solve for all the clues if your method is to go clue to clue in order, when you don’t have the info to solve some of the clues? How can you be confident if you don’t have all the clues? And again, you don’t yet know what the clues are.
            Look at what he is saying, not what you think he is saying. He hid the chest before he wrote the poem. One spot, he was going to make it work. Not until he was finished writing the poem did he notice 9 clues. The poem is written to find a spot, not solve clues. The spot is important because it is what can be solved. That spot gives your path, which in turn, gives your clues. So, I have the spot with a poem solve, what do I care what the clues are? Even if you don’t recognize a clue out in the field, you are going to your spot, who cares. With the knowledge that you don’t know all the clues, or what they are, if you have the SPOT, who cares?
            With the blaze being a clue, and a place that will trip the searcher up, or confuse a searcher, are you saying I need to find it to find the chest? Why would I care if I already have the spot? So, why would anyone care about the clues if they already have the spot?
            If you try to solve the clues, if you need one clue to solve the next, if you think you know what all the clues are, you will, at some point, not have an answer. The info just is not there. One clue does not lead to solving the next. Because, all the clues cannot be solved. You won’t make it to clue 9. The clues just let you know that you are on the right path. finding them means you are on the right path. To find them, you have to have that end spot. The poem solve. So, with the end spot, you will get the starting location, take the path to the spot and the chest.
            So JDA, where am I starting at the end? where in that do I give the impression of, ” last page, find out “Who done it”, and then throw the book away – to heck with who the characters are, and what relationship they had with the deceased.”?
            You said,” wwwh IS a special place to Forrest, just as is hoB, meek place.”
            Your interpretation of the context on the comment he made is out of place. He’s talking about the end spot. He has said, if I knew hoB, who cares about wwwh? That does not sound so special to me.
            The poem was not written with the intent of clues or solving clues, it’s intent was to find a spot. That is why he didn’t know that there were 9 clues when he finished. If I sit and write a poem to find a spot, then you will find a spot, anything can be construed as a clue, to find that spot. If I say there are 9 clues in the poem, then there are, but if I say that you cannot solve all those 9 clues, then what is your recourse in finding the spot? To solve clues? lol, no way, to solve the poem to get the spot.
            You are thinking of your solve and it’s set in stone, because you think you know the clues, which you cannot. There is no guessing or hunches. You cannot solve all the clues. To disagree is going against exactly what f has been saying and has recently said.

          • charlie,

            You said, “The poem does not give all the info to solve all the clues.” I would certainly disagree, in the beginning it starts at wwwh, if you don’t know, then the rest of the poem can’t be solved. When F said something to the effect if you had the correct hoB why worry about wwwh, [not a quote just a gist] because he was answering a question about reverse engineering the poem. If you are so sure about hoB, then you don’t need wwwh. [if you are so sure.] But you can only be sure if you have the TC.

            Then you said, “Why would he say that BotG are needed for some of the clues?” How many is SOME, 2, 5, 6?

            The main question, how did you find the SPOT without the poem’s clues? F may have counted the number of the clues after he finished the poem, never-the-less there are clues in the poem. Yes he is vague, and every clue can be solved. If you can’t solve the clues and marry each clue in consecutive order from the top, wwwh to wood, at the bottom of the poem.

            You said, “Solving the poem gives you a spot, an “X” on a map.
            A searcher then would use a map and route a path how to get there.” Begs the question, what were you using to solve the poem before you drew the path on a map?

            IMO, you are talking in riddles, are you playing some with rum or smoke? 🙂
            Or is it articulation? No insult intended!! 🙂

            Part IMO and questions.

      • I found my blaze first from clues/hints, then I worked back from there to find my WWWH, then worked forward again. I got lucky with the blaze but all the hints/clues are there to solve it. Mr. Fenn has said what the blaze is but I imagine not many heard him. I love that he tells you exactly what you want to know but you don’t realise that he has. IMO,IMO,IMO
        -B

  45. GCG,

    I concur, and your thoughts are accurate in regard to your quote: “However if you did have the Correct interpretation of “hoB” then, YES, you could reverse engineer the location of WWWH.”

    Which is exactly what I did 🙂

    And yes, understanding Fennese is quite helpful!

    While WWWH and HOB are big components, one of the latter clues can be quite difficult to interpret correctly, and without it you can’t narrow the search area.

    I do believe I have the correct area, but I also believe at this stage there are probably a handful of other people who have figured it out as well. It is now left up to who can get there first and discover it. I will have only one chance to travel to the location and find it. If I don’t find it when I go, I may then be willing to team up with someone else and share my answers.

  46. In 1988 FF had some life changing events. 1988 Yellowstone hade one of the worse fires that we know of. That was a year of discomfort for FF……….IMO

    ~Murmur

  47. Can someone help? I found this note from Billy Barty this morning:

    “I was reading the blog this evening and have to say Sparrow, you, and most of the bloggers are knuckleheads”. —Billy

    I am unfamiliar with this term. What is a “knucklehead”? Is Billy trying to say that a lot of us have our finger on the solution? Just curious. I have been feeling more confident about a solve lately so it’s good to hear Billy being more positive for once.

    • Sparrow –

      Here’s a Lugnutz scrapbook for you.

      Many years ago I was backstage at a concert in Chicago. My wife was catering for rock stars back then. Checkout girl at the store left the tamper proof cap on a bottle of booze.

      Being the helpful type I took out my Buck folding knife and attempted to deftly slice the cap off in the manner one removes a champagne cork with a small sabre.

      Result?

      I cleanly removed my knuckle! If you don’t know, the skin over the knuckle heels smooth, not wrinkled. I spent the next 12 months slowly bending my index finger more and more each day in order to form the new wrinkled skin.

      Lugnutz Loveknuckle

    • If you are a Harley-Davidson FAN you may consider Knucklehead a compliment..You are the engine that drives the machine

    • Sparrow,

      The meaning of “knucklehead” is not a nice term. Being raised in Montana I’ve heard the word used on many occasions. It refers to being stupid, stubborn, not able to learn and not having the ability to understand.

      • The cup is always half empty and half full.

        We chose in each situation how we perceive. Are you the type who will focus on the obstacle in the middle of the road and hit it or do you see the path around it and avoid it. I chose to look for the paths no one else sees because I believe there must be one.

        I believe in “The Thrill of the Chase” that Forrest is trying to get us to see things differently.

        So call me a knucklehead and I believe I am the engine. That’s just the way I am. 🙂

        • I was just trying to deflect something negative into something positive with my Harley reference…There is no room for name calling on this page…

      • I know I would be upset and there is no compliment with Billy’s statement.

        I have been in circles with Harley owner’s, the knuckle head and the pan head are referring to engine pistons.
        The knuckle head was the most favored engine of Harley owners. R–B above, may be right, but I’ve not heard that reference to Harley riders. Thanks to R–B for the nice thought.

        • I was just trying to deflect someones negativity into something positive-with the Harley comment..There is no room for name calling on this page.. Thank You R–B

        • CharlieM & R–B: Billy Barty is just an imaginary character that Sparrow periodically posts about — an amusing alter-ego if you will. The “knucklehead” comment was intended as levity, not an insult.

  48. I love Harley’s. I’ve ridden them a few times including beautiful rides outside Seattle around and through some beautiful forests and down the east coast of Australia. One time my wife actually rode with me down PCH. Great memories. I might just rent one again sometime.

  49. DAL,

    I have now come to the conclusion that your blog site is the best site out there regarding Fenns hidden treasure.

    Having looked at some of the other blogs, I cannot believe some of the things that I have read over the last few day’s, since Forrest said I have a gut feeling that someone is going to find it this summer.

    Forrest is fast approaching 90 years of age and deserves a bit of respect.

    I wish all of you genuine searchers happy hunting in your search for 2018.

    I repeat I wish all of you genuine searchers happy hunting in your search for 2018.

    Stay safe out there guy’s.

    Ronnie the Scot

  50. On the plane home from my first ever BOTG!!! It was sooo much fun!!! No chest but I saw some amazing scenery, drove some amazing canyon roads and got to catch up with a dear friend… Can’t ask for much more than that…:) I’m having a little trouble getting the feathers out if my teeth though 🙂 lol at least I was able to eliminate and confirm a few thangs related to my solve…

    • Congrats Spallies…although I have to say that it seems you picked the coldest month of the year to be in the mountains…you’re a tough cookie…

  51. Thanks. Appreciate the input. I thought a knucklehead was a touchy person, or someone who couldn”t take a joke. Thanks for clearing it up for me. lol

  52. Just kidoing guys. I know there are no “knuckleheads” on this blog. Everyone’s input is important and valuable. I really am a sincere searcher. I just have,a very warped sense of humor.

    Lately I have been making progress by putting stanza 5 and 6 on top of 1 thru 4. This may be a big step towards a solve IMO. It has really shown promise.

    Many thanks to all of you, and the best of luck in the search.

    • Sparrow;

      You may recall I espoused the same idea a few months back. Putting the order – 561234 does several things. It puts the question at the top, and most riddles start with a question.

      It makes these the last words: But tarry scant with marvel gaze, – Just take the chest and go in peace. – Which makes sense.

      For me, it puts all of the hints before the clues – Clues = stanza’s 2,3 and 4.

      Once the hints are understood, it makes solving the clues much easier – at least for me.

      I could go on and on, but won’t Just my view of the world – JDA

    • Sparrow, JDA

      F has said, Don’t mess with my poem, [taken from the cheat sheet of this blog]

      Yet, moving stanzas 5 & 6 on top of 1, is reconstructing the poem. So why is it that F’s advice is being ignored? I can say with most certainty your idea is taking the wrong turn as it also takes the clues out of consecutive order.

      How about asking F if your process is messing with the poem? Better yet, Dal would you ask? If not I will.

      Just say’n 🙂
      As always my opinion.

      • CharlieM
        From an unbias perapective.
        Technically they are not moving anything. They are choosing to read line x as the 1st line.
        This is very similar to finding the 1st clue in tje 2nd stanza.
        It doeant mean they are messinh with anything, just reading it differently and there is no foul there. Tjere is limitations to expressing how they do so in type responses.

        • Kira,

          Sorry, I disagree, technically they are moving the poem’s structure. In moving the poem around is most certainly not going to help them solve the 1st stanza, as it is a statement of what he did alone with the TC and he is keeping the secret where he hid the TC and is giving hints as to where it is throughout the poem.

          The method also is not going to help in finding wwwh in the 2nd stanza.

          I simply disagree 🙂
          As always my opinion.

          • If I read the poem backwards, is that messin with the poem? No its just reading it differently, just as starting with another line.
            The messin comment was about changing words, not how to read it.
            Does it help? Only one can say for sure.
            Is there hints? Doubt it very much, people see hints everywhere.

      • CharlieM;

        As Kira so nicely put it, I am just changing which lines I choose to read first. As Kira also mentioned – Why is the first clue found in stanza #1? Read it over carefully – The first CLUE is in stanza #a. As I said, for me (you may not agree) ALL of the clues are in stanza’s 2, 3 and four…and I DO solve them consecutively – I just move the HINTS to above the clues….Don’t hints of something come before the actual thing being hinted at – not after?

        I appreciate your point of view. I held the same view for over one year. – Nine sentences = 9 clues, all in consecutive order starting at line #1, Stanza #1.

        I can give you a hundred reasons why that is a good approach – I just chose to look outside of the box a bit, and it worked for me.

        Only time (and finding Indulgence) will tell which approach is correct – Keep having fun – JDA

        • JDA,

          You & I have never agreed. You said you could give me a thousand reasons why it is a good approach. I say, I can give you 9 very good reasons that your method will not work. That would mean I’d have to give out my solve and that I can’t do as others have chosen not to do. 🙂

          Will you at least pass me a bottle of very good Brandy that I am right? I would do the same for you. 🙂

          Spring, please come quickly!!

          As always my opinion

  53. i think knucklehead is a back to the future reference, personally; i think a lot of things actually. at this point I feel like the poem was written by a computer. I could relate almost any spot in the rocky mountains to the poem. But I also think he has eyes on the spot.

  54. I had been looking in the same area for the last 8 years. I have looked elsewhere but nothing fits so well like this area. I struggled to figure out the last few clues and or hint. until one day thinking of when Forrest Fenn was on the todays show. He was giving out a clue to the today show audience. He made a mistake to the interviewer when she asked Forrest Fenn what is the NEW clue? He slipped up and said the treasure is hidden above 7000 feet and he corrects himself and says 5000 feet. Look at it from a Psychology stand point. You have to ask yourself why did he mess up? why say 7000 feet. Why not 6015 feet? or any other number for that matter. In psychology when you have pressure in an area of your life you bypass your conscious and you move to your subconscious. Your subconscious is where your decisions and things that you have done in repetition your cognitive side, your core belief system. So Forrest Fenn knows where the treasure is hidden he knows the elevation the treasure is hidden at. a spot that is deep down in his core belief system. He has looked at it over and over and over again so in his subconscious it resides. When he was thinking of a clue to give to the todays show he was nervous and under pressure from the lights and the whole experience. Thats why when the interviewer asked him what the clue was he said 7000 feet because thats what was in Forrest Fenn’s core system. thats where he Cognitively knows the treasure is at. So the mistake wasn’t that he said 7000 feet the mistake was not saying 5000 feet because 5000 feet is what he wanted to say Consciously. but didn’t because he was under pressure and he by passed what he wanted to say in the conscious and his nervous body and mind went to the subconscious of what was truly there that is the reason he said 7000. He knew he made a mistake and thats why he didn’t go back.

    Also from Begin it where warm waters halt is exactly 8.25 miles to the chest you drive a majority of the way then park and hike in about a mile to the chest.

    #TheSolver

    • Sounds like you’re talking about the “ironic process effect” (Wegner). It’s an interesting theory, and could explain the slip-of-the-tongue if we believe Mr. Fenn can be rattled by an interview. But he doesn’t strike me as the kind of guy easily rattled, so maybe the 7K “miscue” was intentional?

  55. I wonder what the median Chase Tenacity Lifetime is for a Fenn searcher? I’ve been going back through the archives in 2013 and 2014, and many of the names that were posting endlessly back then have not posted in the last year or longer, to my recollection. Some examples: germanguy, Michael D, Deb, Rick, Michelle P, Woody Bogg, Pam, Mapsmith, Donna McChesney, ritt, swaingt88 and cloudcover1. Perhaps some have changed monikers. But maybe a lot of searchers get burnout after 3 or 4 years.

    • Zap-
      MichaelD just posted yesterday…Deb posts occasionally…but there are hundreds of names you haven’t listed and that I suspect fit your concept…

      • Hi Dal — my mistake: should have recognized Mike’s T-shirt avatar and realized that MichaelD and Michael D (with a space) were the same. Based on the turnover rate, it sure looks like most searchers who have posted here last less than a year or two … or change their names.

      • Lol, you’re also missing all the ‘pirates” that use to be out here. Thinking they are all knowing and funny. They shouldn’t have tried to pick on a innocent little girl in their eyes. They wouldn’t have ended up looking totally stupid. (shout out- J. Jones).
        I could not stop laughing that day at work, classic…

    • Zap

      Sometimes I wish it would just be found so I can move on to other things. Sometimes I hope it isn’t found for a long time because I am seeing and doing things I never would have otherwise.

      I do take mental breaks but I just can’t let go completely.

    • From my perspective, I think there’s a shelf-life on topics that get discussed and how people talk about them. You get introduced to Chase and then you start up a conversation about, say, what the nine clues are. Then maybe you talk about where warm waters halt. Then some other things. Then you go on a trip and you talk about that. You go through a period where you think random commentators are actually Forrest Fenn in disguise 🙂

      After awhile, at least for me, there comes a point where you feel like you’re just having the same conversation over and over again, so you stop reading everything that’s posted, rightly or wrongly thinking it’s some variation on something you’ve already read. You lose track of threads, what people are talking about, etc. It might be different for retired folks, but having a job and reading everything posted isn’t practical.

      There’s also a term called “vaguebooking”. That’s where people post comments on Facebook that are so vague that you don’t even want to reply or get drawn into the conversation. That’s nearly every conversation in the Chase. Searcher comments are so vague that most of the conversation is omitted out of fear that they’ve given away too much, so it’s nearly impossible to have a real, meaningful conversation unless it’s about something other than the clues.

      Ultimately, you end up spending more time with the books instead of other people’s thoughts about the books. I imagine that’s a similar experience to what other searchers go through.

      Now, multiply that by tens of thousands of searchers and eight years and you can also imagine that’s a little of what Forrest Fenn himself deals with.

      • Spot on as usual Jeremy. I’ve been in this for going on six years now and I only started paying attention to the posts in the last year or so. You want to talk plainly to people but I’m so remote from the locus here that the only searchers I know personally are a few that I’ve created-

  56. A lot of folks have come and gone here since the beginning. Some out the front door…some out the back door. I think Goofy sent a few special folks out through the silo. Dal’s blog is the place to stay current and research without the high drama factor. I was just thinking about Dal announcing the stunning news when this site was nearing 250K hits…
    Time flies !

    • Hi ken: before I got to the end of your first sentence, I thought for sure you were going to say that for some searchers, Goofy had pulled the lever on the trap door. 😉

  57. To DRock, IMO, the 5k elv.
    is fairly irrelevant anyway.
    6.5/7k, should closer def.
    the base of a search area.

  58. I had to adjust my course recently (a few times) because I was sailing towards troubled waters. But sometimes wrong answers can lead us to the correct ones, and that’s what I love about the TTOTC. Some days you feel like Shaggy, and other days you feel like Thelma. Jinkies! Happy Hunting!

  59. Lately I have noticed a lot of stuff on the Chase and felt to chime in .

    Please this is only a opinion .

    I wrote this to another avid searcher . I disagree with him all though he sees

    a lot of the stuff I do . Except he don’t see all of it . So I wanted to

    put a copy of my letter to him . No Names are mentioned. I feel it is not polite

    So here is the letter.
    Hi ——-, Love the show. Not to criticize any of it , but would like to add some thoughts. First I seen you finally went to Denver. I live here and search regularly . Matter of a fact over 100 trips from Montana to NM . You said that you didn’t see anything at the Museum . Well I kind of disagree. No I cant tell  you why . But I knew Fenn was there before his new book and I knew where his car was. Well I though I did . Till his last comments about finding the last clue with Google earth . So my tow sense is . Important information section of TTOTC is in my opinion the most important part of the book …  There is so much data .  But more important is some of the things I see. ” I spent more then 19 years asleep and three were on a Monday . Well really it was 19.33 years asleep .  The time line I use is 1988-19.33 years . Ill tell you the month not the day . So it comes to 4-1969 . I have caught him in the Bell tolls – I have Caught him in so many things that some think is misleading. It is not. Actually it is line with the UnAuthorized auto biography .  I also noticed you brought up his schools . Linear School – no that is not true my friend . Actually the photo is Van Driver Elementary . That was a bent truth of Fenn  . And like with Eric Sloane . He didn’t pass the way he stated . I saw the police report of it . NY department of Records.  I told ————– that I tracked Fenn to Denver and —— from Dal’s blog. I have also told a couple other searcher my understanding to a degree.
    Then Doug writes in his new book that Fenn said his last clue was there. I told Fenn a year before the book came out.  I mentioned to him that when my dad died he told me to never underestimate the power of a quarter … I never forgot that .         

    So I guess why I say this is we think similar . But not. You see some of what I do .  But , I notice things that he says . Like Fate made it happen JD passed away. Well JD passed on 1-27 .  And in Catcher in The Rye ” pay attention when you see cancer” So I did and  in that book on 7-18 Allie passes away of Cancer . Holden brother. Well if he has a hold card then he is Holden now isn’t he. He said he was Acting didn’t he.

    SO what of some other dates, like ” I was hanging a painting by coincidence of George Washington . ” Well the coincidence was it was presidents day but it was 2-24 when they arrived.  Another is I tied three strings a day for a year” Well that was way to figure out except did you try ? If you did and have a number of those strings then you have figured incorrectly . It is only one string no matter how many you tie.  Here is another thing. ” Your thoughts are your own , so there for they are to your self. So really you only have to please your self . ” AND ” What good are your friend if you cant use them . ” First if you agree to these then you missed the point . We are all here to please each other , so if you only need to please your self then you are selfish are you not? And if you tell your friends that you are using them , I would assume they would tell  you off.  You wont have many friends.              To pay attention to the Chase and understand that the clues change when you do , makes me think.  Take care ——– great show , hope you didn’t mind me chiming in . I post sometimes on Das blog. Mostly poems . But you can find me by looking for Mr.D or Mike and Heather.  Thanks take care , and remember that you are the true treasure. 

    Bless you guys take care.  Mr.D

    • MrD
      Trying to follow along, perhaps you can finish explaining where youre going with some things you caught Fenn in.
      The school picture, you says its of another school than Lanier.
      Can you explain why the kids have a big L on their, (appears to be gym clothes), shirt. Vs a V for van driver?

  60. Hello fellow travellers. Does anyone know of Mr Fenn dropping any hints or mentioning the Star Wars movies in any context? Thanks in advance.

    • Hi John R –

      Yep, here is another line of thinking that no one here cares about. There are tons of Star Wars references. When I bring them up people say I’m reaching. but then they bring up WAY more obscure stuff and accept if from each other. As if, Fenn couldn’t possibly know what Star Wars is.

      Are you considering a Wookie related location/word?

      Lugnutz

  61. Not sure if this has been mentioned before but everyone’s always wondered why 8.25 miles north of sante fe, what if 8.25 miles is the exact distance from wwwh to the entrance to the canyon down? It’s not far but it’s too far to walk, and a quick distance check would eliminate incorrect solves pretty quickly… just thinking out loud

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