Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Forty Seven


This page is now closed to new comments. To continue the discussion please go to the latest Odds n Ends page.

Please click on the comment balloon below to contribute to the discussion of  Forrest Fenn’s Treasure Hunt. Please note that many topics have their own pages. Please scroll through the blog to see all the discussion pages. There are also stories, scrapbooks, searcher’s reports general information, tips from Forrest, a rumors blog and even email responses from Forrest. So please look around and if you want to make a comment please use the most appropriate page.




623 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Forty Seven

  1. FF. Said “I have a gut feeling (it) will be found this summer”.
    What do you all think? Are any of you guys or gals close?

      • Alsetenash
        Lol… Yea, he said that too! That’s odd… Don’t you think? I mean, who is he saying that to? The person/person’s who are close or all the other searchers in the chase, are we being told to “get off the pot cause someone is close”?
        Or, the one that’s close has competition because someone else is catching up… As if (TIME waits for no one) Go and get it before it’s too late!

        • Definitely my thoughts on the matter, but as I haven’t e-mailed any solves to Forrest I can eliminate myself from being in the pool of those making Forrest think someone is close (if that is the case).

          • In my opinion:

            One can make Forrest think someone is close . . . without e-mailing a solve to him (he reads blogs).

        • Being as this was an email response by FF , me thinks it’s a well thought out creative intent with a purpose. Just like in the Bourne movie where Pamela Landy did an announcement over the airport PA system stating that his entourage has arrived. She used a name of a passport in his collection of fake ID’s in the announcement , one that he hadn’t used in the “grid” yet. Therefore he knew she was communicating to him. So, this scenario could be possible in usage in a FF’s repertoire. IMO. Though, does the end target catch and notice this? Who would really know or is this too much imagination?

          Many writable screenplays within this chase. Imaginations can run wild. One doesn’t need to work strictly with numbers for a calculatory system.

          Wisdom/imagination=handshake. IMO.

          Sure sparked the adrenaline of urgency a blaze.

          Just my odd opinions to no end.

          • I also think it’s some sort of call out, but not sure exactly how…

            Maybe if someone referenced having a gut feeling about such and such a place in an email to FF?

            It’s not exactly an odd phrase, but why that versus “I think” or “I suspect” or something?

          • If you google “gut feeling” it talks about just having a feeling about something without conscious reasoning. Not that FF is using that meaning of gut feeling but it does stand to reason that it might just be a feeling based on his subconscious. There could be a number of good potential locations or thought processes that have been emailed to Forrest, that when all combined leads him to this gut feeling.

        • John C. Greco, Mr. Fenn also said ” There are many avid searchers looking for the treasure who are not blinded by it’s value.”

          • I don’t really think the value is the solitary goal for most in the chase… sure, it’s alluring, tempting, and a very good motivation to find the prize however it’s the prize of cracking the chase, the solve and did you do it, have you been close or are you on the chase precisely… ARE YOU THE ONE!
            Oh; don’t get me wrong, I want the chest however I want my partner and I to figure out the correct solve, I want to read his autobiography and yes, I want a new Harley! However I truly believe it is the solve… To be the one, the team to pull it off or to end up the Chase!
            Crap! I just thought of something, what will I do after this? When it’s all over? I have been on this from 2012… We took this on as a job. Oh well, I will figure out something to do. Good luck to all in the Chase, I hope it’s someone who has been at it for years or better yet, someone who has “EARNED IT”!

          • 2012 that is a very long time 5yrs. took me 5 hr. to find it look at everything ff has down in his life and where he is in life people want his money that is the end play to think about that so get inside his mind.To get there is on the map and the poem and what he has down in his past.His vault in his house is a very good hint about where it is also.

          • John C Greco, Yes I believe I’m the One imo, and yes you are right about it being the one to crack the chase as you mentioned. Don’t give up hope, you could be the one. Who knows but Mr. Fenn. Oh, this has been my fulltime job since 11-18-2015.

    • I’ll go contrarian and say it won’t be found this summer… it’ll be found this spring. 😉

      • My Magic 8-Ball says no. Too many unknown players at unknown levels of progress because they never post on blogs.

          • Hello, Afana.

            I was wondering about Zaphod’s number too…until I did a Google search and discovered an interesting link…

            …which makes me think of Mystery Incorporated and The Mystery Machine.


          • Good one, JC1117! Of course, now I can’t get this scene out of my mind:


            Afana: to answer your question, it was just the next sequential number at the time the number was assigned to me. I like that its digits, either separately (3 or 7), or combined in order (73, 349, 491, 7349, 3491) happen to form seven different prime numbers.

        • It is also possible that it has been found already, but the person that found it has asked to remain anonymous for a specific length of time to sort out legalities, which is certainly an understandable, reasonable and wise request. I can imagine if a public announcement was made that it was found, that it would be difficult to keep who found it a secret for very long. Just a thought….but the game is never over until it’s called- so I plan to continue TTOTC until it is! Happy hunting!

      • Unless you go by the meteorological convention for summer, which is just the months June, July and August then Summer would be more accurate. From an astronomical view than spring could be a real possibility as summer won’t start until June 21st.

    • This gut feeling after some searchers arranged for a meet up in West Yellowstone this June. IMHO this may be what could prompt such feelings. When I saw the joint search with Dal and Cynthia I had the gut feeling that they were close.

    • A “gut feeling” never FLABbergasts me. Talk is cheap, but
      when it comes from FF (and believe me, his “signature” is
      not hard to recognize), I tend to consider the talk as being
      perhaps worth semi-serious analysis/study.

      I think he sees the writing on the wall; the degree of
      “choreography” that will take place is yet undetermined,
      regardless of anyone’s plans.

      I honestly hope that the finder of the TC will be reasonably
      respectful of FF, other searchers, and the environment
      in the vicinity of the hidey place.

      With regards to being “close”, at least one searcher
      has a high degree of confidence in being “close” regarding
      solving the poem. But the BOTG search task still lies
      ahead, and could involve — for at least one searcher —
      detailed searching in 3 places that are within a thousand
      feet of one another. This should be doable as part of one specific search hike before the end of summer.

      I never thought of a cat as being particularly “loyal”,
      compared to a dog. I don’t specifically dislike cats; but I
      like dogs more (generally).

      The above is all part of my opinion(s). Your altitude and
      smileage may vary. When you smile for the camera, please say “cheese”.

      • My dog agrees with your take on cats and wants some of that cheese you just mentioned….Great! Now I have to eat something as this has all made me hungry…where are those Ritz crackers? Thnx tighterfocus.

    • I have emailed him about the blaze in the past year. Nothing he has said about clues discounts my thoughts on the poem or all his new clues comments. They have actually reenforced my solve. He has never returned any of my emails which would be the right thing to do. I am itching and confident to get going. I couldn’t make the trip last year due to other obligations.

    • Hello John,
      I feel the definition of “close” as it pertains to finding the “TC” will be the announcement that it has been found.
      Think horseshoes and hand grenades. ; )

  2. Subscribe. Thanks Dal.

    Hello community! Yep – still in the hunt, but some family emergencies have taken precedence.

    Stay safe everyone – happy hunting!

  3. Dal, i read these on my phone at the end of the day. You’re killing me with closing the topic early. LOL

  4. Ive seen people hoping the chest will be their lucky lottery ticket. Ive sketched out an amount for what I believe to be the value.
    Getting to $1m is a bit difficult in my estimate.
    I hear people would auction it, but is there really significance value to the treasure? Yes, theres a few artifacts, but what would propel the value more? Its not a conquistador haul, lost shipment, a mythical black beard etc. Does a treasure hunt push the value much higher?

    Has anyone attempted to calculate a value and why it would be worth so much more in the realm of $3m?

    • Hello Kira. I believe one might consider the rarity of the artifacts, and the value of gold which may determine such prices. It may have just been a guesstimate from reporters.

      • I agree pdenver. Pre-columbian art and artifacts are quite rare outside of museums.

        The jewelry alone – not including any loose gems – can be viewed as valuable in itself.

        Provenance will play a role in valye, as well as, it’s intrinsic value. One could even throw in design, origin, and material used, when it was made, etc as additional value related variables.

        The chest and contents, in my fair guess – with leaving gold at $1300.00/oz…..I’d say about $2.2 – 2.5M in value.

        Of course, gold fluctuates daily, as do all things of value, so my opinionl is only good for right this moment.


        Cheers and have fun!

    • I’ve never once considered the value of the contents.

      I can’t fathom why it would be a worthwhile exercise.

    • Yeah, someone has. But it’s all guesswork, and very
      subjective. People with a lot of money are sometimes
      pretty “loose” with it. If I had $80 million, I sure as hell
      wouldn’t spend it on a painting. To me, that kind of game
      is relatively silly, regardless of it making money for some
      folks. Adding real (functional) value makes more sense to
      me . . . like manufacturing automobiles or tools or clothing,
      for example.

      I believe the TC and its contents could relatively easily
      fetch more than $3 million at auction . . . but managing
      the liquidation of the treasure in a sound economical,
      legal, and secure manner could be challenging and
      time-consuming. And, of course, there’s also the issue
      of privacy. “Earning” the financial reward(s) will involve
      a lot more than just solving the poem and physically
      retrieving the goodies, either of which by itself could be
      a formidable task. Good luck to all of us.

      The above is part of my opinion. Yours may diFFer.

    • I’m sure the chest would sell for more than its contents are actually worth. Indulgence is world famous. The ruby slippers worn by Judy Garland in the Wizard of Oz are worth 2 to 3 million. Fame and notoriety counts.

    • Thanks for the input, I posed this for a followup question.

      About 5min mark, the value is discussed, about $1m. I think that’s a decent number.

      For some reason a thought occurred to me, what if someone found it believing it would be so much more than it is, how would they react, negatively, happy its still something, from a $1m value and you go legit, you may just have half a mil.
      Think most will say something is better than none, but people are people.

      The chest though was $25k, could be worthless too as the wood is now wet and prone to damage.

    • What he’s getting at is, the true treasure is u and everything around. Experiencing it with the one u love,kids and friend’s. At the end of the day, everyone that perticapated are winners. The true riches, isn’t the gold or how much. But the experience, enjoying what this world has to offer. How many of you would have got out there like you are now. If I happen to find it, I would continue the journey. Get people out of there every day routine. Enjoy nature with people they love. I mean what’s our definition of rich these day’s. How much money you have? You are rich if you have and do the thing’s you love most in this life. So if your too focused on the gold you’ll miss out on the real riches. “But tray scant with marble gaze”.” Stop and look with a good eye” take in what life has to offer.

  5. “I am rarely told exactly where people are searching, so I don’t know if they’re getting closer or not… my gut feeling is that someone will find it this summer” ff

    Now stay with me here this is a really wild, out there notion, but what if, maybe when he says “I don’t know if they’re getting closer or not” he really means “i dont know if they’re getting closer or not”… I know, I know, my mind was blown also, like how could it be so simple? As always imo

  6. Kira,

    Most of the coins in the Treasure chest have numismatic value considerably more than the spot price of gold… Which significantly increases the Treasures value.

    As to my suggested possible auction value of the Treasure Chest, its mostly because of Forrest Fenn and the worldwide fame and the press which currently surrounds the treasure hunt and the renewed whoop la that would possibly occur if the Chest were to be discovered.

    Christie’s is world famous for their ability to achieve top dollar for collectable items particularly ones which have some amount of notoriety..


  7. There is a lot to be said about the excitement of chasing the chest. Like said earlier, “What will we do after?”

    • Aaron, Yellowstone may be problematic for legal reasons. I seem to recall something about removing things from Yellowstone is verboten. Except for memories…

      • Bob, from my research that only applies to taking things natural to the environment out of the park. If you want to continue the discussion though we need to move it to the legal pondering’s thread.

      • There is something odd about where the treasure is.
        Because Forrest said we will be surprised at where it is.
        So than he said too, we over simplify. And get back in the Box! Not exact quotes, but basically, it’s confusing.

        • Lou Lee;

          I am not sure just how you are connecting your three statements.
          Statement #1: Forrest said we will be surprised at where it is.
          Statement #2: We over simplify
          Statement #3: Get back in the box

          How are these three statements connected? I just do not see it. Statement #1 is about the site, Statement #2 is about HOW some searchers try to solve the poem, and #3 , more like #2 talks about how to solve it.

          Can you help me understand how you are connecting the three? Thanks – JDA

          • Oh yes hi J D. I guess they are all connected by Forrest saying them. Maybe putting them all together might come up with something along the way. There is something about the placement if the treasure that seems out of the box by his comments, yet we are to get back in the box!
            I’m sure there is a good hint in there.

          • Thanks for your reply. The middle statement – that we over simplify is now in direct conflict with a recent post by Forrest telling is to “SIMPLIFY” – What is a fello’ or gal to believe?? JDA

          • Yes right JD! That was what I was trying to say! Agreed. Just when I was trying to think out of the box. Now we are told to get back in. I really think the treasure is in a easy place that is maybe so right under our noses we don’t think of it!
            Forrest makes it sound that it’s difficult but not at the same time.

    • I think Yellowstone is not just YNP = Yellowstone National Park.
      Yellowstone surrounds YNP in all 3 states. MT, ID, WY.
      Take it for what it’s worth. I will stay out of the pay gates for YNP.

    • Yellowstone IS quite a treasure . . . at least to FF. The first
      time I was ever there, I was impressed by its natural beauty.
      I don’t think FF wants people digging it up in a vain search
      for a box of gold that is hundreds of miles from there —
      all in my opinion.

      • Hi tighterfocus: Yellowstone surely is a treasure, but its natural beauty in my opinion is greatly surpassed by Yosemite’s. Where Yellowstone excels is in its unique geologic wonders and its abundant wildlife. But for physical beauty, it’s an also-ran when put side-by-side with Yosemite.

  8. I think the wise thing to do with the treasure is to put it on auction. I’m thinking along the terms this would be best because, I believe most of us do not know the true value of the artifacts, the gold nuggets, the coins and any jewels. It would be so easy if parsed out to be taken by unscrupulous buyers that would take it based on the golds weight alone. This brings up the trust issue.

    At least in auction I think one could set the starting bid. Sure the auction house will take a portion and that should be considered in the starting bid. Then comes the taxes that need to be included.

    Overall you can be assured you walk away with it’s true value. On the other hand keeping the treasure and not doing anything with it. I think only the well-to-do could do this. I believe many of us could use the money to improve relieving life’s hardship.

    I think auctioning, hopefully will keep the treasure in tacked for historical sake. After all, the hunt will go down in history, would it not?


    • I would like to add anonymity is important. Yes it would be nice to be famous in a way. I look at all of the problems that finding the TC can and most likely will create big problems. The hounding by the press, people coming out of the wood work, cause unrealistic lawsuits, privacy issues, burglaries, personal security issues, disturbed persons, etc. The list can go on and on.

      These type of things that I mentioned, to me any way is not worth it. I’m not being negative or derogatory just somethings to take in consideration as to why I think anonymity will keep the aggravations and safety at a minimum.


  9. My search began in March of 2013 devoting an average of an hour/day. Forrest’s latest comment about his gut feeling that it will be found this Summer made me feel sad. I imagined hunting this chest with my future grandchildren. Anyway, i’ve decided to wait till the weather is warm. I hope it’s not found for years– Stay Safe♣

  10. Even though Forrest mentions that Google Earth will not help with the last clue, I have been searching through You Tube Videos trying to find a needle in a haystack. Might help someone to plug in you search area and see what pops up.

  11. RE:**Bob’s reply to Aaron, 10:49 am, 02-15,,
    YNP legal issues.
    Bob, son, there are a lot of ways to
    skin a cat. Ya jist gotta run up
    the Jolly Roger.

  12. No message nor information is intended for any individual in regards to this comment. Since the time I have told people that I have my spot pin-pointed, I have been asked what is stopping me from going to retrieve the treasure. It seems that the answer has escaped me from time to time. I, now, believe I have the answer as to why I have not made it to the spot… IT IS SIMPLY JUST TOO FAR TO WALK. Because of this, I am bidding my time by preparing for the drive. I have it within but I prefer to also having the drive being outside of my body by way of a transmission and gears. I am not lolligagging, I’m just patient. Very patient. Soon the snows will clear and the searchers will be back in serenity next to a peaceful campfire peering into the Milky Way. Have a good day fellow fenners.

  13. Can any of you guy’s please tell me the following;

    The Treasure Chest is hidden somewhere in the Rocky Mountains at least 8.25 miles north of Santa fe.

    I read somewhere but can’t remember where, that if you combined the four states, you where covering the length of the Rockies 3100 miles and a combined total of 30 million square miles.

    Are these numbers correct or am I just blathering.

    Just curious.

    Ronnie the Scot

  14. It is indeed interesting that he has commented that he feels it may be found this summer….particularly if you’ve kept him in the loop as to your location. It certainly lights a fire under those with a location in sight. Could there be anything worse than someone recovering it from “YOUR” spot before you get there!

    • It depends on one’s point of view. Please try to stay subtle, even if it’s diFFicult.

      OH! I should say something about the hunt.

      I was tinking about the chapter that talked about tea with
      Olga; I tink there’s a hint there, but not necessarily 5.

  15. Maybe Forrest is being tricky with this answer.
    Have searchers homed into other clues or WORDS in the poem?
    My gut feeling is that someone will find IT this summer.

    Will that someone find the treasure or find IT. Whatever you think IT may be.
    All IMHO.

  16. I recently got to looking closer at the words” Just heavy loads and water high” or “Just heavy loads and just water high” because of the word and. The word “just” plays a key role in the line.

    I also narrowed the line by putting “just water high”. In my perception of this line is water high is to baptize. Baptiste, means “baptist” in French, originally deriving from Greek βαπτω (bapto) “to dip” like John the Baptist. Of course no paddle is Sacajawea. But what about just heavy loads? So I googled (Jean Baptiste heavy loads) not using the last name Charbonneau and it took me to this painting.

    I call the painting “The quarry”

    In confirms what I am looking for in the rest of the Poem.


    What do you think?

    • My additional thoughts are in line IMO, These lines to me represent what I am looking for from what I am seeing. These are instructions or guides to what to look for, how to look for, and a method to use to look for before why is it I must go.

      I have a gut feeling where the bracelet is. Olive is the new green.

      There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
      Just heavy loads and water high.

      If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
      Look quickly down, your quest to cease,
      But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
      Just take the chest and go in peace.

      Good luck everyone. I hope I was able to help. Like I have always said, the treasure chest will not be sold or parted out. I have a plan to take it to where it belongs.

    • Since you asked… Hi GEY, I like and enjoy your approach, but I think it’s a bit too tangential. However, I respect that one learns what is too far by going too far. Experience is a good teacher. Some years ago I posted something about the word ‘just’… I have forgotten where or what I said, but I do think it is a power-word choice for Fenn. Maybe in its ‘measured’ sense. So keep on going. Good luck. OS2

      • Thanks for the feedback. I have been on the same path since 2014. I just look at things a lot differently. In my line of work, I keep asking myself, what am I looking at? Everyday, I look at things and wonder, the guy that built that thing must be pretty proud. One would need to stop and think. So long, and enjoy what I just wrote, or until we meet again.

  17. A little news from Yellowstone. Some alarms went off last night when a small earth quake occurred.
    Scientist are watching closely because changes and hazards can occur in the geisers and hot spots, for those nearby.
    Be careful out there!

  18. tighterfocus:
    YES, indeed.
    YNP as such, is subject to almost constant
    quake swarms, most are not physically felt
    by humans except thru siesmograph sensors.
    The real thing to watch, however, and is monitered via very good sat. data. is the stations that collect vertical and horz. data on
    changes. The elvev. changes are crucial as
    they are indicateve (or not) if the dome as such is growing. A good observational indicator is changes in water level of the big lake. As the dome buldges, more shore line
    is exposed.
    AND YES INDEED, if it comes to that, it can
    be a real badda boom over a several hundred mile semi radius down wind. , to paraphrase, LILO in that movie with Bruce Willis.
    A lot depends on the movement of the
    North American plate across the lava plume and magma chamber. If that motion were to
    stay on the historic shallow curve, as indicated by its past march out of WA. ST,, and across the Snake River Plain, I should expect
    the next YNP formed NNE of Red Lodge. MT., but if the plate slows down or halts, then
    another one right where YNP currently is could be expected. If the magma chamber cools however as the Earth ages, then there
    may be minor events, but not a big badda boom.

  19. Many more today than the one I reported yesterday. 45 total in the region today! That is a concern!

    • Lou Lee – here’s a summary of the latest, these are getting close to 3 which is pretty serious seismic activity:

      2.8 02/18/2018 17:43:06
      2.74 02/18/2018 17:34:17
      2.76 02/18/2018 15:29:16
      2.63 02/18/2018 15:23:53
      2.91 02/18/2018 15:17:17
      2.7 02/18/2018 14:17:07
      2.91 02/18/2018 13:49:55
      2.6 02/18/2018 09:16:46
      2.69 02/18/2018 06:10:15
      2.91 02/18/2018 05:53:02
      2.93 02/18/2018 05:37:46
      2.57 02/18/2018 04:28:28

      Posting the link again for those who want to see it (lower right corner of the site has the table of values):


      • Covert One,
        The big question here is……Would Forrest put the chest in or near Yellowstone?
        Of course it’s a volcano, and a National Park.
        I can’t remember if Forrest has commented about this or been ask. I don’t think so.
        What do you think?
        What does everyone think? Yes, No?

      • Lou Lee: I don’t think Forrest would worry too much about secreting the chest in or near Yellowstone — as far as the supervolcano risk. The chances of the caldera erupting in even the next century is thankfully low, and given the large number of deployed seismometers coupled with satellite measurements of altitude deformity, we should have a decent amount of warning if something terrible is imminent.

  20. YSN has been doing this ever since the one struck back in the mid 50s. The last big concern was the last part of the 80s near the Norris basin when the ground started to swell then retreated. I was there with a friend that worked for the USGS at that time.

  21. To Alestenash.
    yes, u are right, it will prob.
    calm down. good thoughts.
    AND yes fracking can make minor/occasionally med. quakes happen, as u mentioned esp in shales.
    THESE however are quite shallow in comparison to plate movements.

    • Batty, yes they are shallow. Gaia is ringing right now, with large shallow quakes such as Mexico and other recent ones. In this case of Yellowstone, I believe the shallow recordings are magma/lava flows close to the surface pushing and vibrating the mantle. Volcano activity and earthquakes kind of follow each other sometimes- cycles within cycles. I don’t see a concern at this time. I would be concerned if mount Vesuvius or Etna became active first , then North America follows in a link.

      FF left Indulgence in the hands of Gaia . She is the proctector untill the right person is “it”. She will be pleased when she sees the person has ” it”. :). There will be a warm welcome 🙂 A whole lotta lava going on lol. 🙂

  22. I just watched the movie “Rebel in the Rye” . It offered great insight into J.D. Salinger and his “art”. Very well done and time well spent. I would recommend it.

  23. Question for MichaelD: since you are still here, but germanguy seems not to be, I’d be interested in any follow-up you have on your 2014 post about germanguy’s solution at that time:


    Four years ago, you believed he had cracked Forrest’s poem, even to the point of thinking his solution was better than your own. (But obviously it was wrong.) Based on further reading, it seems he thought the chest was in Colorado. At that time you claimed it was “the best solve you had ever heard.” But at least as far as the Poem 5 Archive, that was the end of it. No more posts from germanguy there after October 1st, 2014, nor any from you or him at all in Poem 6 (the current one). And I checked “Looking in Colorado” and neither of you has ever posted there.

    No doubt he posted under other topics after October 2014; the question is whether he ever made his solution public? I don’t recall reading it, though not being interested in Colorado solutions I could easily have missed it. I was just curious what about it at the time made it stand out to you.

    • Zap,
      As I recall he did make it public and in fact he had his own site up for a while. I had some conversations with him at the time. Been years now so I don’t remember the name of his site.

      I may be wrong but I think he got nuked here and that’s why he left and tried to start his own blog.

    • Thanks, Colokid: I figured nukage was a distinct possibility. Appears to be a common outcome for those that become overly convinced they are right.

    • Zap, did you enter ‘germanguy’ into the search box, and read the links that are returned. There’s some stuff from germanguy in other areas of hoD.

      • Hi Loco — you read my mind. My past experience with the search function is that it isn’t global for Dal’s site, so I was reluctant to go that route, but in this case it did bear fruit. Reading up on his “Could it be here?” now…

      • Well, that was an entertaining read. A prime example of stretching tangents and tremendous confirmation bias. But interestingly, they (germanguy and Michael D) got one or two ideas right, in my opinion. But they were buried in a mountain of highly questionable ones.

        • Lol, he had a lot of good ideas early on, he was here from the start Zap. Then he posted his possible solve and I think, from memory, that Dal nuked him. I’m sure he’s still around. Dal could give you a better feeling of the time.

        • Yeah, I never got why F was supposed to be interested in uranium or the salt water/ WWH connection or why F would choose a rest area to hide the chest. LOL

          Good times!

  24. I am anew seeker, so with fresh eyes I offer this observation. While reading the poem I noticed that Forrest used every letter of the alphabet, except the letter X. It probably took a lot of editing to include some of the less common letters like Q and Z. Do you suppose this could be on purpose? And maybe the blaze is an X? This might go back to Forrest’s pirate dreams as a kid. I’m just throwing this out there in case it hasn’t been noticed. Thank you all for contributing your opinions and info to the hunt.

    • Wm-
      This has been brought up a few times in the past, most often by folks trying to reuse the letters in the poem to create a new message.

  25. Some of the comments by Forrest stand out in my mind. What took me so long. Could this statement refer to West Yellowstone where he loved to go every summer when he was young.
    Are we making the finding spot too difficult in our minds with all his statements to simplify and get back in the box. Maybe he is referring to the ones that over complicate where he talks about the backwards bike.

  26. If a person looks long enough, they will find something in nothing. I think this is what Forrest had in mind when he cautioned searchers to keep it simple.

  27. Help please.
    I have been using “Tarry Scant”, yet can’t find what I’m looking for.
    I am sure I am using the wrong words.
    Did Mr. Fenn at the end of answering a question, make a comment that he had said too much?
    Clearly Clueless

    • Clearly Clueless;

      This year’s 6 questions with Forrest on MW – Question #1 ended with Forrest saying, “I could go on with this Jenny, but already there is too much. Sorry.” Not exactly what you were looking for, but the best I can come up with – JDA

    • Here is another that is close: “Question posted 6/26/2014:

      Has anyone seen or mentioned the blaze to you? ~Stephanie

      Thanks Stephanie for the questions. I have read them several times very carefully. They appear subtle on the surface but they aren’t. A yes or no to either question would give too much away, so I’ll pass. Sorry, and I’m aware that some searchers will pick me apart for this answer.f

      Hope that these help – JDA

    • In 2015 (?) he did an interview for a New Mexico Dept of Tourism video in which he said ‘there is one thing I told you that I wish I had not.’

      • I think he was referring to “the treasure is wet” comment? Couldn’t guarantee that though.

      • aardvarkbark;

        Here is the quote: “”If I was standing where the treasure chest is, I’d see trees, I’d see mountains, I’d see animals. I’d smell wonderful smells of pine needles, or pinyon nuts, sagebrush—and I know the treasure chest is wet. Well you’ve asked me a lot of questions and some of them—most of them I answered, a few I haven’t, but I’ve got to tell you—there’s one thing I told you I wish I had not.” f

        Later discussions indicate that the thing that he said, that he wished he had not, referred to him saying that he would smell pinyon nuts. Pinyons do not grow in Wyoming, except one small patch in the southwest corner, and do not grow at all in Montana. He later said that he meant pine needles, even though he had already mentioned them. JDA

        • JDA,

          Thanks for the info. All this time I thought he was referring to the comment about the treasure was wet as the thing he wished he had not said.
          I did not know about the pinyon nuts. I’m kinda of a local tree nerd about trees in my area of the Southeast. You just taught me something. Thanks.

        • Tim;
          I was highlighting where they did NOT grow – leaving NM and Colorado as places they DO grow. Sorry if I was not clear – JDA

          • This is only my opinion, but here goes. Forrest was rambling about what the treasure chest would see from where it lay hidden. When he got to the “pinyon nuts” I believe he was just rambling about things, and later (as JDA said) corrected himself to say “pine needles”. I believe this was an honest mistake, and not a Freudian slip. Others differ I know, but that has always been my thinking on it.


          • Gotcha JDA, I misunder stood.

            My apologies.

            For me, I’ve really never thought of anything other than “pine nuts” or a variety of the pine species, but not a specific type.

            Sorry…and best of luck to you…be safe and the chest!


  28. Just read the Business Insider article. Forrest says he wanted to give kids something to do. Also he hopes they will fish,look for fossils, turn rotten logs over to see what’s under them and look for my treasure.
    I believe the treasure is in a place where a parent can take kids, not near a cliff or in a fast running river which requires a raft. Also, it is somewhere that an 80 year old person can get to (making two trips in one afternoon). This leads me to believe while it may not be 100% safe it is pretty safe for kids with parental supervision.
    I’m thinking a park with picnic tables and not some remote road with a trail leading off into the forest. He hid the chest and wants people to find it so it will be close and safe enough to look for it. Something hidden in a remote forest far from access to the general population, within the size of the Rocky Mountains, would almost ensure that one never finds it except by chance. I believe Forrest’s intention was to make it probable that anyone reading the clues correctly could find it without much difficulty. The solving of the poem is to be much harder than retrieving the chest, therefore, I believe the chest is in a much more accessible place….a place where children can visit without parents being fearful of bringing them to that spot.
    Also…I think it is in New Mexico….remember the map Forrest sent to Dal without any words. I think this is a major clue he threw out to all.
    Just my opinion.
    Good luck to all.

    • Tarheel—

      Forrest said however that he hid the Treasure where he originally intended to when he was very sick. And remember, he was going to die and leave his body with the chest. Would be Forrest choose a place with picnic tables to leave his body? I tend not to think so.

      Would be choose a place where children could easily stumble upon a decaying body? Again, I don’t believe so. Though the place may not be in a dangerous place, I do think it is in an area that is hidden quite well indeed. Hidden enough that a chest and a body could remain undiscovered for quite some time.

      • Sparow,
        Fair assessment. I didn’t mean a park as most people know of…city park, county park…but a state park, wildlife management area or national park or forest. There are recreational areas/parks which have picnic tables, restrooms and parking areas and you could walk 500 to 1000 feet, away from a man made trail and be where no one would normally go and still have solitude. The area would still be safe for children. My wife and I have been to some of these parks/areas in New Mexico and were amazed that we did not travel very far to be in complete solitude with no person around…the whole day.
        During my hunting years, a full grown deer was shot solidly and seemingly disappeared after it ran away. We finally gave up looking for it. This is more common than most people think. In 1979 I also hit a full grown doe with my car, pushed it about 50 feet on the pavement and came to a stop. To my surprise it got back up and climbed up a hill until I could no longer see it.
        It was critically wounded and I thought it probably went off to die. Finding a large wounded or dead animal is harder than many people think. For someone to conceal themselves within 500 to 1000 feet of a day use area would be very easy to do. A large decaying animal smell is not so prevalent in open forested areas and would most likely go unnoticed except for an occasional passerby. If a body was within 500 to 1000 feet of a roadway in a mountainous area, most people would assume it was a dead animal that was hit by a car. I don’t think it would raise much suspicion.
        Your point above is well taken though. Thanks.

  29. I’ve listened to that interview and really wonder if what he wished he hadn’t said had to do with pinyon nuts. If you listen to the interview you will hear Forrest say “and Peggy and I got married 7 or 8 years later”. Was Forrest regretting not being more exact about that timing should Peggy hear the interview?

    “What do you mean 7 OR 8 years later?” Women pick up on stuff like that pretty easily. So I’ve wondered whether that’s what Forrest wished he hadn’t said. I’m probably wrong but it did cross my mind when I heard it. lol.

  30. Well Gang,

    Before going to sleep tonight here in Michigan, I just want to declare that my solve is now complete.

    At the beginning of the year I sent Forrest what was my best solve including a Google Earth screen shot of where I believed the Treasure Chest most likely was but conceded that I still was uncomfortable with my precise solutions for: Meek, Paddle and Just; because he said:

    “the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.”

    So I believed that precision and confidence could be definitively discovered in the clues and indeed, I finally completed these last night at approx. 5 am in the morning!!!


    • Good to hear and good luck. Being that you completed it and the rest of us are so far behind, can you share how did you approached it from the beginning? what was it that cracked it at first before everything else started falling in place?

      • OZ10,

        Other places I have wrote that the brilliance of Forrest poem is its accessibility to all readers. Forrest doesn’t care much for Hemingway’s work but like Ernst, Forrest uses simple, clean prose which immediately conjures up imagery in the minds of the reader.

        People who are inclined to take the poem and its treasure hunt seriously, find themselves rapidly imagining or discovering the various canyons and creeks of their own devising. I too did this. For me it was the word “wise” and this made me key in on the “Toltec Gorge” area, not too far North of Santa Fe in the Rocky Mountains and my effort would be worth the cold…

        You see I, strung the pieces parts into an idea and then tried to work everything else in the poem into that idea but unfortunately that is not how the poem is designed.

        After reading more extensively Forrest comments and going on Youtube and watching a link that played most of Fenn’s interviews in order by date and time. It became clear to me that I wasn’t doing it his way. I wasn’t reading his poem but instead injecting my own imaginings on to it so I took out a blank piece of paper and started reading the poem from the beginning, but this time viewing it from the stand point of:

        If Forrest is intelligent, rational, honest and precise (which he very much appeared to be from the interviews and all the comments) and he built it like an architect over 15 years.

        1) What is the logic?
        2) What is the structure?
        3) What did he build or what was he building?
        4) How would or could it provide specificity?
        5) How does it narrow the entire Rocky Mountains to a spot?
        6) What stands out in the poem? Peculiarities?

        He gave us a lot when saying exactly how many clues, that they are consecutive and they provide precision.

        Later he said its straight-forward and that the biggest hint is don’t go somewhere, where a 80 year old guy couldn’t go…and he hid it in one afternoon in two trips from his car!

        Everybody here knows these things but I put them in order to stress the logic. And this is pivotal since he has said the logic and structure is such that, the hunter who figures it out will move with confidence. Meaning again that the poem needs to reveal a definitive place and definitive directions.

        Then he finally said; “Begin where warm waters halt”

        So now he’s given us the first clue in the poem – this means the next 8 have to occur after this line. And he had previously been emphatic about the importance of this all important first clue.

        So how do I apply everything above into determining the starting point.

        He even goes so far as to tell everyone that NO real specialized knowledge is necessary – that a person who reads TToTC and the poem, who has average intelligence, a little imagination and resolve can work through or work out or figure out his clues.

        So this means its a basic logic or at least not so OVERLY complicated, that being a resourceful is enough – that it doesn’t rely on arcane or esoteric understandings.

        But that the book did contain HINTS which could seriously aid a searcher in interpreting the clues or corroborating them…

        I have told Lugnutz, that people should go to the book and read the entire chapter which contains the poem.

        I have also said the book contains what I would call expositional inconsistencies which Forrest has delightfully commented on, saying;

        “If I had spelled that last word correctly it would not have had the profundity of meaning I wanted. To misspell the word emphasized my point”

        Combined with:
        “Sometimes, when I’m in a conversation now, and things are said that I know are incorrect, rather than confront, it has become my nature to just smile and enjoy the small victory that comes with being quietly smug.”

        This suggest to me that inconsistencies in his writing should be examined closely to see if they reveal anything (they may or they might be a true error in talent but worth some scrutiny).

        Well there’s what I have this morning.


        • GCG….I made 6 or 7 multi day trips to Toltec Gorge and surrounding environs over a 5 month period in 2017. Definitely an intriguing and magical area . If you want any beta on access points / logistical info from a BOTG searcher, have Dal send you my email. Bring your fly rod!

    • GCG….
      Your declaration is very ironic. I too came up with my final solve today.
      To be honest, I thought I had already come up with the solve…..yet, I was arguing with myself, because of several things, Mr. Fenn had said. This afternoon, I put the pieces together and in the correct order……so glad to be able to sleep tonight. My blessings with your solve. GCG
      Clearly Clueless!

    • Well GCG…I would say good luck…but that is a tired and worn statement. A lot of good folks have gone forth with high hopes and great intentions. Some have started anew after coming up short…and way more have spun off into the unknown, some silently, and some, not so much. The journeys have been varied and spread over a vast portion of the Rocky Mts. and it is always exciting for me to know that folks are discovering the great outdoors where they may never have dreamed before.
      I am excited for you and sure that others are too. Have a grand time and keep your powder dry…

    • GCG- not only you but many others report here on Dal’s blog that they have emailed Forrest Fenn their “solve” of where they think the treasure is. this baffles even me the last remaining dodo bird on planet earth. why would anyone do this after quoting Forrest himself on many occasions. these quotes support your theory and it seems to me the one main quote you have forgotten is the fact that all he wants from searchers or THE searcher is….the bracelet back. do not email Forrest your “solve”. he does not care. he wants the bracelet back. he said that. i put the word solve in quotations because thats exactly what it is…a “so-called” solve. i’ll remove the quotations after he has received the bracelet.
      heres a quote for ya…didnt forrest say something about a searcher “missing one important aspect of the winning solve.” or something like that. yes they did forrest, they have not returned your bracelet. nobody has the winning solve.

      i think.

      • Dodo, for different reasons, I agree with you. I would never send my solve to Forrest, especially if I were convinced that it was more than a “general” solve. His email is no more secure than yours or mine. “Treasure Hunters” of a different sort than the BOTG variety likely hacked in long ago. Also, just out of sympathy for the man . The least favorite aspect of my job is responding to emails. They are generally a request or demand for me to do something, usually something I don’t have time for or want to do, lol. I doubt Forrest anticipated the volume of email he would one day receive when he conceived of the chase.

  31. Thanks for this link randawg,

    It is sad that so many searchers have taken unnecessary risk like these in overly risky areas.

    On my BOTG trips, I have carried a Satellite phone, first aid kit, water, food, gloves, flash-light, head lamp, extra layers, water proof layers, GPS device, bear spray, a knife and tools, mosquito repellent, and I always wear a hat.

    But most importantly go by the rule, if I’m second guessing an action, then I’m not taking that action…

    Yet, even given these basic safety practices, I too have felt the effects of Indulgence’s siren song! Its so easy to get caught up in the chase and to push yourself further and further, as yours ideas continue to turn up nothing.

    Its best to have to have a plan and stick to the plan. If it doesn’t pan out, back out, regroup and try again fresh.

    Please be safe and know that Indulgence isn’t that far out there – those kinds of risk simply aren’t necessary – if your solve has you taking extensive hikes, regroup with the hot chocolate or a cup of coffee and read the poem over again…

    • I turned around last year on my first BOTG while hiking with my wife and didn’t feel comfortable continuing without bear spray. I had it planned out for the next day to have everything I needed and then my flight was changed from PM to early AM. So there went my closer search quickly down from my blaze. I don’t regret it one bit, better to be safe then sorry. I wish you luck on your next BOTG on your solve. Please share some info when you get back from IT.

    • How “far out there” do you think Indulgence is?
      Please be specific. For example, how long is the
      hike to Indulgence from a reasonable parking place?

      Thanks, y’all.

  32. It was Spallies, I slept much better last night, thankfully.

    The reason Stanza #3 was bothering me so much even though the final solution I sent Forrest was super solid, was that I feel as if I’ve come to understand how he intended the poem to be solved because of what I’d previously gleaned out of his words. The few days before I had finally worked though exactly:
    – Why the word “meek”
    – Why he used the semi-colon
    – What he meant by “There’ll be no paddle up your creek,”

    And all that was remained for me to clear-up was why:
    “Just heavy loads and water high.” but in particularly his reason for choosing “Just.”

    Here is why it was bugging me so much; Forrest has said when he built the poem, he had gone over and over it himself, assessing it from every angle.
    And my deconstruction of the poem had confirmed this, so I knew Forrest had a more specific reason, a more definitive logic for choosing that word and I didn’t have it refined, yet. So it was driving me crazy!!!

    And then it finally coalesced (clue #6 was now a closed case and I had previously already completed #7 & #8 – #9 remains to be precisely solved at the blaze)…it made me so happy, I “just” got up and started my day.


    • Ya GCG, I get what your thinking.
      Why the word “meek”?
      I think it’s deeper than a emotional feeling. It has to point to an area that is special to Forrest. Meek – in the general definition would exclude many searchers and I don’t think that was his meaning.

      Semi-colon ; Only place it’s used in the poem and could have special meaning.

      “There’ll be no paddle up your creek,” I can see this comment by Forrest relating to this line in the poem:
      “Alas, and dame fortune, so often a fickle and seductive wench, never spun her wheel to lure them back.”
      Could the “wheel” be a paddle wheel?

      “Just” Does it mean “justify” as right there on point or in the middle of a creek? Or the only thing there except for “water high”?

      Good luck in your quest.

    • GCG,

      “– Why he used the semi-colon”

      this seems to be one of the most disregarded possibilities in altering how to interpret the following lines…IMO

      I’d love to hear more specifics from your perspective on it.

  33. Spallies, Please note that I fully understand the nature of my peer group on the Forum and get that many will read my last few post with heavy scrutiny and maybe even mirth since so many previous hunters on the Forum have claimed to have “solved the clues.”

    Some will say, how can you have a solid solve if you clearly hadn’t worked out; “From here it’s no place for the meek,” DUH!
    But that isn’t what I said. I said my interpretation of the word meek wasn’t refined enough to my liking, given how precise I have come to understand Forrest is in this poem.

    To ignore any word, you run the risk of over simplifying. So for example; “no place for the meek” – means that, even if you are correct and have gotten this far, it is still not enough.

    “Your destination is small but its location is huge.”

    So from here you can’t be meek, you must be sure in your direction… This was initially, enough of an understanding for me to be able to accurately move on to:

    “The end is ever drawing nigh;”

    Of the two, the second is the most important part of Clue #5, but “meek” still was in my crawl because I knew Forrest intended something more precise. I had 2 other additional key insights into this verse in the poem but still not enough to GROK his exact intent of using “meek.”

    I’m at the place in my chase, where it’s no longer a guessing game, anymore, and when my family and I return (as soon as possible), it is my intent for them to have the thrill and excitement of solving the last clue; “But tarry scant with marvel gaze,” together!


    • GCG;

      I am glad that you are now comfortable with your solve. Take a deep breath, take a couple of days off, then take your solve and re-read it as if you had never seen the solve before. Look at it with the intent of proving it wrong. Look for the smallest of errors. IF it stands this test, wait until spring and put BotG. Take the family with you, and have a great time together – whether you find Indulgence or not.

      For me, I see “Meek” place a bit differently, but that is OK. That is the wonder of the poem. Good Luck and TRY to STAY SAFE at all times – JDA

      • Definitely sound advice!

        I almost went to a solve spot in Colorado on a whim because I believed in the solve. I ended up getting sick when I could have gone and while sick realized an error in my solve that was enough to end that location for me.

    • Hi GCG: Wow, poor Dal’s site is getting hit hard today. I’m only connecting about 1 time in 5. I’m happy for you that you feel good about your latest solution and confident enough to take family members. And since you’ve been BOTG at least 3 times previously, I don’t need to remind you to temper your expectations about actually finding Indulgence. 😉

    • GCG

      I am excited for you. It’s very hard to sit and wait after arriving
      at a set of conclusions. I know this very well.

      I totally wish you the best of fortune on your next outing. I am sitting on the edge of my seat right now as well. Still I know that I can be correct, or incorrect.

      I hope that someone from this very active website finds the treasure. It is a bias I have developed after “kind of” getting to know other searchers here.

      I also have a different interpretation for “from there it’s no place for the meek”, but that is of no consequence at this point. If you are correct, then you are correct.

      Safe Journey !!


      • Franklin,

        Thank you for the encouragement. And for those who have a different interpretation for “From here it’s no place for the meek,” – I just provided my literal level interpretation, this line has 2 more levels of understanding so you could have anyone of them and be moving in the correct direction, so to speak…

        That’s another thing which has made this chase so much fun. I’ve had absolutely wrong initial ideas about certain things in the poem but by continuing to explore it and digging around further, I eventually saw the correct interpretation…

        Currently there is a get together planned by some searchers, to take place in West Yellowstone around June 21st-ish and with any good fortune I hope to be there.


  34. Thanks for the post randawg;

    I saw it last night on AOL, and was going to post it this AM – you beat me to it.

    Fell 500′ – NOT in a dangerous place! – How many times must Forrest repeat it? DARN!!! Don’t go where an 80 year old guy can’t go – an 80 year old guy is NOT going to stand or walk over a 500′ precipice!!! T H I N K people. PLEASE, TRY to STAY SAFE out there once the snow melts, and WAIT for the snow to melt before you venture out – PLEASE!!! A sadder searcher – JDA

  35. If Fs horse was “Lightening” maybe Donnies horse was “Brown”

    Has this been discussed before?

    • Jonsey—

      I don’t remember anyone discussing this before. Do you care to expound more about this? Just curious.

      • Sparrow and Jonsey,

        Sparrow mentioned M.C. Escher. M.C. Escher died in 1972 in the town of Baarn which is pronounced barn.
        If Brown was Donnie’s horse, then its home would be a barn. (put in below a barn)?
        Also, Sparrow replied to Tarheel and seems to have a firm and great understanding of Forrest’s hiding spot. Could Sparrow be an A.K.A.?
        One never knows.

        • Tarheel—-

          I did post about M.C. Escher but I thought it didn’t take. It was during the slam that happened a couple of days ago and I tried several times to post without success.

          I was just curious if anyone had Escher figured in anywhere in their ideas? I saw something recently in the poem that reminded me of Escher. Did anyone respond with thoughts on that? I can’t find it if they did.

    • I am pretty sure there was more than one lightning relating to the location of the chest. IMO One of them was a mule, but I don’t know if that “Lightning” was a Jenny or a Jack. Anyway they died one day while working. That is one way to quit your job! Mules are known for their endurance too.

    • I dont have much to expound on Sparrow….thats what I was counting on the masses for. Except to say from the way he describes his horse, in comparison to Donnies Lightening, ‘Brown’ seems like the sort of name that would be suitable. And ironic.

      • Did Forrest really spell it “Lightening”? I think I would have noticed such an error. Lightning is one of those endlessly misspelled words in internet posts, like loose/lose and to/too.

        • you are correct Zap Yes.. I accidentally
          spelled it wrong. Lightening/ lightning. Browne/ Brown. I assume with a little imagination over knowlege skills most could still understand the question. Ill rephrase.

          Donnies quick horse was named “Lightning” does anyine think maybe Fs slow dumb horse was named “Brown” ?

          I see some most likely coincidental irony in F being dumber than his horse and not being able to find his rear end with two hands and the lights on as well. But that’s anecdotal and beside the point.

          • Brown or anyother name, I’m glad when they let go of the reins the horse led them about 50 miles from where they started and they found their way home.

          • Hi Jonsey1: no worries. Lightning is just one of my many lexical pet peeves. “Irregardless” is another.

            As for the name of Forrest’s vs. Donny’s horse, I thought it was Forrest’s that had the ironic name Lightning, and that it was Donny’s horse whose name was never mentioned? Maybe Donny’s was called Thunderbolt?

          • You are correct again Zap….posted it right in the original question then inverted it in the rephrase. Apparently distracted by the lightening. Lol. Ill just quit the thought all together….I seem to be having a hard time finding my own rear end with two hands and the lights on at this point. Thunder Bolt it is.

          • Hi Jonsey1: I guess the question is if Donnie’s and Forrest’s horses were actually named Donder (sorry Johnny Marks: not Donner!) and Blitzen? You know … 85% and all.

        • Zap,

          Are you being ironical by misspelling Donnie in your post about misspellings? Nice; adds profundity of meaning.

          One of my favorite dislikes is using elude in lieu of allude. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a correct use here before. I’ve wondered if it’s a play on words that has become a forum tradition.

          • Hi (AtT): yes, just having a little Fenn fun. I wondered who would catch it first. 😉 Pdenver is also on top of things!

  36. Thanks a lot Sandy,
    We plan on visiting Toltec Gorge next year but perhaps sooner…we have family in the San Luis Valley (Monte Vista) and enjoy day tripping to the Pagosa Springs area.


    • Do ride the Cumbres Toltec train…and take advantage of the docent in the open air car. Stunning stunning vistas and wonderful history. Charming all around.

      • Absolutely –
        Wouldn’t miss it!

        The stop at Osier figured heavy into my first fanciful notions of treasures to be found.

        I remember trying so hard to figure out a hidden meaning somewhere in the name Osier.

        It sounds so mysterious.


        • The meaning of Osier is commonly known! Canasta –>basket –>Jicarilla –salesclerk just a swinging her braids and hiding behind an oversized cup…leads you to –>osier. Have some hot chocolate and the desserts are delicious!

          • I posted a great HOB for Toltec Gorge, but it disappeared. Maybe because it contained a link. Google thomas moran and toltec gorge, think of Eric Sloan and his love of all things brown.

          • Lastly, GCG, think of “switch” , both the verb and the nown, when you consider Osier. So many train references in his SB stories and TTOTC. The “general” solve fits like a glove.

          • LOL _ Sandy, when you mentioned “basket”, I immediately went to “willow”, because I collect weaved baskets, but also used to swing in willow trees when I was a kid.


            Get out of my head!!!!



            Good luck!!

  37. Does anyone know if everything is ok with Seeker. He’s always been prolific on this forum, but I don’t think I’ve seen a post from him in a month, or so.

      • He probably took Dal’s advice. Listening in the background. I definitely enjoyed reading his/hers posts. Come back Seeker, its all good!!

        • I also hope Seeker is just taking a short break to catch his breath. He is good at playing devil’s advocate by holding people’s comments up to the mirror of F’s comments.

      • Zap,

        Thanks for your reply and the link. A deafening silence manifested itself in my conscious mind a few days ago and I’ve just gotten around to asking about it.

        TToTC has been my hobby for some time now. I look forward to catching up with the discussion anytime I’m give a window of opportunity during the day and I miss Seeker’s voice.

        Hopefully he is still listening good and considering making his voice heard here again. Heck, maybe he went and retrieved the chest and he’s keeping it, and his thoughts, in a vault for 30 days while he thinks.

    • Another missing blogger is Lugnutz. I haven’t seen posts lately. I hope neither has been nuked.

      • The last post that I can see for Lug was this one:

        Lugnutz on February 14, 2018 at 2:13 pm said:

        Hi John R –

        Yep, here is another line of thinking that no one here cares about. There are tons of Star Wars references. When I bring them up people say I’m reaching. but then they bring up WAY more obscure stuff and accept if from each other. As if, Fenn couldn’t possibly know what Star Wars is.

        Are you considering a Wookie related location/word?


        And Yes, Seeker last spoke in Early January – I sure do miss his insight and input – JDA

  38. The blog is bogged. 2000 hits per hour on average over the past 48 hrs but the traffic right at the moment is much more than that..probably around 3000 hits per hour but 30% of those can’t get in because of the traffic. The blog can only accept about 1200 connections at a time. After that it just can’t take anymore…and it becomes impossible to get in unless someone drops off and a connection opens up.

    This high traffic was caused by a news story that appeared on NPR and also on many papers that rip stories from the AP Wire..

  39. Hey, wow I got in 🙂 I’m travelling and don’t have my book with me. Does anyone know what the exact quote was from Forrest when he said something like…. ” What if no one finds my art? ” I think it was when he was talking about hiding his bells…. Thanks in advance!

    • Page 139, TToTC:
      “And what if no one ever discovers my art? Will my time have been wasted? I guess the rewards have been in doing it, and the enjoyment that comes with dreaming about what might happen someday.”

  40. Hello everyone. I was just curious if M.C. Escher figures into anyone’s thoughts concerning the Chase? I saw something today that re-sparked a thought I had a year or so back. Again, just curious.

  41. Good advice JDA and Zap,

    During my previous BOTG excursions I was under the wrong impression that my general understanding of Stanza’s 3 and 4 would be enough to figure it out while there – unfortunately I under estimated them, those times, and this only reinforced my drive to nail down my understanding of every last word prior to this next trip — so there is no longer any room for error.

    The Forrest Fenn Treasure Wikipedia entry and its update on progress to the treasure was July of 2017.

    I found out about the treasure right around Aug. 15th of 2017.

    Forrest received his first email from me on Sept. 2nd, 2017.

    I completed my 3rd BOTG trip on Oct. 5th, 2017 and I sent Forrest my report from the search area regarding the significant increase in Grizzly Bear numbers and aggressiveness.

    Forrest answered my Jenny Kile questions (under an unknown pseudonym), regarding the “important clue” on Oct. 26 of 2017.

    Forrest does his “Once Upon a While” book release on Nov. 2nd, 2017. “Everyone needs an intersection…”

    Forrest does his final interview with Nightline approx. Nov. 15th, 2017. Provides searchers with the additional warning regarding Grizzly Bears…and suggest simplifying, “if you can…”

    I sent Forrest my revised ideas regarding the “important clue” on Dec. 23, 2017.

    I sent Forrest my revised solve utilizing the “important clue,” minus exact details of Stanza #3 on Jan. 5th, 2017.

    ABC broadcast their Nightline November 2017 interview with Forrest Fenn on Jan. 12, 2018.

    I then sent him a new GE image utilizing the “important clue” and the exact location on Jan. 19, 2018.

    Now I don’t know when Jenny Kile sends out her questions to Forrest and how long he takes to respond, but Jenny posted his responses on “Gut Feeling” day – Feb. 4th, 2018.

    Now Forrest’s exact quotes are:
    “I am rarely told exactly where people are searching so I don’t know if they are getting closer or not. My gut feeling is that someone will find it this summer.”

    “Google Earth cannot help with the last clue.”

    He is telling the absolute truth here. He is rarely given exact solves complete with Google Earth imagery but he has gotten at least one and SOMEONE is, on a gut feeling level, going to find the chest this summer.

    None of this is conclusive, only circumstantial however for 5 plus years the status of the chase has basically remained unchanged up until July or perhaps even October of last year, but then in late January of 2018 it completely jumps to the last clue…What changed?

    Hmmm… … I’ll take that – I had less to work with when I started!


    JDA all I’ve ever done since my first attempt – is punch holes in possibilities. As I jokingly told Forrest, all I have left is a putt shot to the last hole.

    • GCG, I admire your confidence, and hope that someone from this site finds the treasure.

      I’ve counted over 20 people so far, from various forums, who are absolutely convinced they are the one, and have sent FF updated solves over the past several months in close proximity to his comments.

      • Lady V,

        Sadly, and too more than a bit of mortifying chagrin, I am aware of my company…

        However, I have and do endeavor to differentiate myself from others by being as specific as possible, contributing in-depth, logical, creative and sometimes novel insights, on to the Forum members.

        I work hard to substantiate them with Forrest quotes and sound deductive & inductive reasoning; open to feedback, non-combative but confident in my “General Solve.”

        In the various sections: I have outlined the poems structure, my exact 9 clues, a word that is key, my solving premises and philosophy including where not to look in somecases and how to use the books and Forrest commentary for collecting artifacts and discovering hints, to breakdowns of key words like Found, Drawing, Meek, Paddle, Blaze and Gaze – along with insights into verses; BIWWWH, ATIITCD, FHINPFTM, TBNPUYC, IYBWAFTB, & BTSWMG. I’ve even given the total distance the chase covers.

        Finally it should be telling what I haven’t given away:


        Oh well, like I said I’m just a nut,
        (not to be in anyway confused with a Lugnutz)

    • I don’t understand the presumptuousness of people who have emailed Forrest dozens if not hundreds of times. It is frankly rude to the rest of the searcher community. Just imagine if EVERY searcher behaved as you did. How many emails can *you* open a day, let alone read? Multiply your Forrest contact-rate by the tens of thousands of active searchers at any given time. Give the poor man a break.

        • ken,

          I have actually given this some thought – quite a bit actually so please hear me out.

          The Treasure Forrest hid isn’t trivial to him, and the thrill of chase means an extraordinary amount to him:
          “At my secret hiding place, as I was closing the chest for the last time, I felt part of me slip inside and become part of the treasure, or at least I thought I did.”

          “Hiding that treasure chest full of gold and jewels was fundamental to how I feel about living life to its stretched best, and it emphasizes my aversion to seeing anyone be a spectator to today’s opportunities.”

          So I could give more supporting quotes but Ken you know them too.

          But IF you were Forrest and after putting so much heart and soul literally, into this end of life bold and beautiful endeavor AND you had the very rare possibility to vicariously peer directly into the mind (or as Tim likes to say Remote View) of the person who is genuine in their emotional involvement, and who systematically with hard work and diligence is decoding what you took 15 years to craft … … wouldn’t you want that experience!!!

          I share with you guys, for much the same reason. When I’ve been stopped or at a loss for new ideas – I’ve turned to this Forum primarily for new inspiration and camaraderie.

          Am I also proud and excited, Absolutely, but simultaneously, only a bunch of other nuts like myself could ever possibly appreciate what we all have invested in “The Thrill of the Chase!”


          • Hey G…It’s all good. My comment was about the overwhelming emails Fenn must receive. I admit that he(Fenn) is probably as obsessed about his treasure as searchers are…and is truly inquisitive about the possibility someone may find it.
            I think he gets great pleasure from this Chase…but I bet there are a few things he did not anticipate.
            I am excited for you and appreciate your sharing…keep us posted.

          • Ken,

            Your acceptance meant a lot – Thanks.

            I feel like, I’ve really putting myself out there and exposing myself to ridicule.

            So the positivism is really appreciated.

          • GCG, I wish you success on your solve and just hope that, if correct, you put on a big party for the forum folks. It would be a hoot to celebrate with you. And, that goes for everyone.

      • Zaphod,

        I agree to some extent with you but he has mentioned several times in several interviews that he receives approx. 120 emails a day (it has risen over time and this is the last number he quoted that I heard).

        He doesn’t read them all however he reads many and he particularly reads ones which have “key” words in the Subject Heading. I work hard to put things in the Subject that I believe he will find interesting and leave it up to him to choose.
        (perhaps he hasn’t read any of my emails?)

        Further based on several comments Forrest has made, specifically how much,many emails, from numerous searchers have meant to him – too some degree he enjoys getting the feedback and he enjoys keeping close to the chase.

        This is evident in his on-going post to forums, his scrapbooks and the last article regarding the death of the one searcher in YNP says specifically Forrest had called the Park Services because he was concerned about him…

        So he clearly reads a bunch of emails and is interested in them, however I see your point, if everyone that was searching did this it could be overwhelming (I remember he said early in the chase he had to up grade his computer or server system due to the activity).

        But I just did some quick math, so in the end I’ll have to agree with you Zaphod – Yes, I have been presumptuous.

        • GCG: I didn’t mean to sound so cranky, or single you out. There are others that have probably been emailing Forrest almost daily for years. What I find remarkable is that he gets *only* a hundred-odd emails a day. Based on how often searchers on just this blog say they contact him, I would have extrapolated that to thousands per day.

          In three years, I have emailed Forrest four times, and frankly felt a bit sheepish and guilty for doing so. I partially justified the intrusions into his life by including a couple pictures of places we’ve gone that I know he’s been to many times and loved.

          But Forrest is a big boy, and he had to know that publishing his email address in his books and on the web (and even his phone number back in the beginning!) was going to generate a lot of electronic traffic. He’s got a delete key just like everyone else. But even so, a fifth email from me will only be to make arrangements for returning a certain silver bracelet. 😉 I figure by not adding to his Inbox, the chances improve that others’ messages will be read.

        • GCG,

          I’m curious, after all that you have written in the last couple of days how are you going to feel “if” you don’t come back with the treasure?

          Wouldn’t it have been better to say nothing, then reveal your find or not? I think that would be easier to share.

          Believe me I’m rooting for you and wish you good fortune. Ups are easier by far, downs by far are harder to handle in public. Of course that’s just me to be prepared either way.

          As I’ve said I just curious.

          Best wishes for your prospective find. 🙂

          • FYI FF has responded to a couple of emails that I sent “not related” to a solve and he has responded quickly, he has never responded to any of the several emails about my solve. I may be just me. IMO he likes to hear how much people are getting OUT of the chase as much as WHERE they are searching. (remember HE KNOWS where it is)
            Either way stay safe and have fum or get out of the chase. Good luck to all but be sure to tell if you find it. LOL

          • CharlieM,

            In a word, Jacka$$.

            However someone said they hoped it was one of us from this site – well I believe it will be and everyone here who’s been around a while should be in on it and engerized to get out there and make it happen.

            I honestly didn’t think Forrest was going to do Jenny’s 6 Questions this year, but if he did and if he chose to address the progress of the search, I was fairly certain he would have to reveal that the Treasure was being rapidly closed in on and low & behold to my amazement he didn’t shy away.

            Forrest is true to the game – to the end and so will I be! If I’m wrong, I’ll be truthful and eat my double serving of humble crow pie…


          • CGC,

            I think your word to me was uncalled for.
            I was “just being curious” and nothing more. I most definitely was “not” being critical about you at all.

            I posed a question and simply said “I would do it differently”

            Maybe my fault, as I am being blunt which is never my intentions of being critical. I just speak to what is on my mind, no harm no fowl. I’m a good person in all aspects.

            Sorry, just my nature. 🙂

          • He isn’t calling you that he is stating that is how he would feel if he didn’t come home with the treasure. He called you by your handle and then answered your question.

          • I understood that when I saw the comment but I have also felt that exact way when a solve doesn’t work out like I had hoped. The real key though is in both your comments and GCG’s comments you both are very friendly in your speech. I don’t get any sense of any intended disrespect and I am sure GCG will also follow up before too long.

            In my opinion your question is one that all searchers have to keep in mind as looking back on this blog many people have been convinced they knew where the TC was and after BOTG would find it. I think for many the strong belief in their solve and passionate cry that they will find the treasure helps to keep their motor running until the snow melts. I can almost feel as though there will be a starting line this spring as people get anxious to put BOTG. I know I am eager to get out there again after enjoying some R&R on Hebgen lake last summer.

          • Idle Dreamer,

            I fully concur with what you said. This spring will have quite a few out. I feel that I have a sound solve, but paranoid to some extent that someone will get to my location or find it elsewhere. That truly is the nature of the Chase. 🙂

          • I definitely found it a bit strange and amazing last summer when I went to a potential solve location and ran into another person with the same solve/idea. They had been in that area for a few days and had already talked with 4 other people also searching that same area (44.8531614,-111.3672507). That experience really opened my eyes that there really were active searchers out there.

            As for the paranoia, I bet all 21+ of those confident in their solve our feeling the same way. With Fenn’s gut decree for this summer people will be up in troves and I fully expect to run into some other searchers out there this summer.

            I wish you luck on your solve as Forrest has stated (paraphrased), no one will truly know their solve is correct until they find the chest. Plus, if in Bear Country, don’t forget the bear spray. I plan on posting my biggest search area soon and I honestly will never forget seeing as many bones as I did. Some of which were still very bloody (I would guess the kill was within a week of my being there). That search was North of Gardiner Montana and it didn’t help that 2 bear attacks occurred in that area last summer (both by stumbling on a bear by a fresh carcass).

          • I think all the states in the Chase area should pay Forrest Fenn a commission from all the income they get from the searchers spending their money. It has had to have increased the tourist dollars for them.

          • CharlieM,

            My answer to your comment above was how I would feel about myself, if I’m wrong.

            I’m certainly NOT calling you any names — do you have a guilty conscious (hahaha).

            I appreciate straight forward honesty and most of my close friends are perhaps hype- critical to slightly cynical realist… …
            (I’m not sure what that says about me!)

            Idle Dreamer — big shout out to you for coming to my defense and guarding the Forum from nasty misunderstandings.

            In gaming theory it is human misunderstandings, of other humans actions, which ultimately lead to highly escalated conflict.

            And Charlie, I’d say you took my unintended criticism pretty well, so bravo to you too sir.


      • I don’t understand what you mean Zap. I e-mail Forrest every single day without fail and he always responds to me. Yesterday I e-mailed Forrest and even told him what I had for breakfast. (I had two eggs over easy, 2 slices of bacon, 3 pancakes and a glass of orange juice).

        Forrest responded:

        “Did you also have a cup of coffee with that?” f

        In truth—-Forrest has only answered a couple of times and it had nothing to do with breakfast. lol

        • Sparrow, I “get it” and thank y’all for keeping it subtle — when you do, that is.

          OH! — I should say something about the
          hunt . . . it relates to an onion in two ways.

          One way . . . There are “layers” to the poem.

          I don’t want too say much more right now.

          The above is my opinion.

          • I agree that there are two or three layers to the poem. The first layer is too vague to confidently create a solution from.

            Also since ducks are “layers” I would think that ken likes the idea of layers also. 🙂

    • GCG: since you mention Grizzlies, its clear that (like Cynthia) you have abandoned earlier ideas that the chest was in northern New Mexico (or southern Colorado — you once mentioned the Toltec Gorge area which spans both states). Since I thought you were focused on that NM/CO border, I admittedly paid little attention to your theories about what you think are the clues’ solutions since that area is never one that I would search for Forrest’s treasure.

      But it seems you are actually now fixated on either northern Wyoming or Montana (and I’m guessing more likely the latter), so I now sit up a little straighter in my chair and pay closer attention. 😉 That you in the past have indicated that you believe the searcher is driving when pursuing NF, BTFTW is another point in your favor. However, based on other posts, I don’t believe you have the same WWWH as I do. One question of yours a month ago in particular tells me your starting point is far different from mine:

      “Do we end up going in the direction of the warm waters or away from the warm waters?”

      This is not a question that someone with my WWWH would ask. Also, I don’t think you’ve ever mentioned the criticality of the first stanza in solving WWWH, and if that’s true that definitely means our WWWH’s differ.

      • Zap,

        It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if you and I had the same location based on some of your posts. I don’t think GCG and I share a location because, in a fairly recent interaction, he had ruled out any location inside of YNP.

        Couldn’t remember if you were in the “NO on YNP” camp, or if you’ve even weighed in on that topic. Sounds like you might be a Montana solution. I realize some of the park is in Montana, but my favorite part (for the chase, that is) is in the Wyoming portion of that magical land.

      • So you do have one positive thing GCG. Who knows, you may have the correct wwwh if you don’t have Zaps.:)…(everyone knows Zap brings up good conversation, but has no idea where the chest is. He is in the right state though)
        Another note Zap, it’s getting cold here in so cal. What, 40-50 degrees. I might have to go buy a jacket. Looks like Montana search will be in July or August. (It’s just those #%$& female mosquitos), relentless…

      • At the Top: “It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if you and I had the same location based on some of your posts.”

        You’ll see that we don’t based on the latter part of your message (see below).

        “I don’t think GCG and I share a location because, in a fairly recent interaction, he had ruled out any location inside of YNP.”

        I think there are some good legal reasons not to hide a chest there, but it was admittedly the first place I considered in 2015.

        “Couldn’t remember if you were in the “NO on YNP” camp, or if you’ve even weighed in on that topic.”

        I don’t believe the chest is in YNP.

        “Sounds like you might be a Montana solution. I realize some of the park is in Montana, but my favorite part (for the chase, that is) is in the Wyoming portion of that magical land.”

        Yes, it’s the Treasure State for me, and it seems like it’s getting more crowded with searchers each passing year. Best of luck in wherever your poem solutions lead you!

        • Zap,

          Best of luck to you too. I’ve noticed you’ve some significant company in your targeted state. The boots of searchers seem to be tromping the loudest in Southwestern Montana.

        • Thanks (AtT): yep, lots of boots, but that don’t befront me (nod to George Thorogood). Montana’s a big state. 🙂

      • Zap,
        That question was rhetorical. It was meant to stimulate more conversation and thought on how a searcher might use the poem to begin determining the proper answer this.

        Lugnutz, suggested that you and I may have the same WWWH. I don’t know how he would know because I was under the impression that you would never give up your WWWH because you are that sure of it. But a recent statement of his said something to the extent that he was trying to decide whether to search his area or yours…this summer.

        As to using the 1st Stanza to figure out WWWH – based on my reading of your post I don’t believe we have the same take on Stanza #1, however I have posted elsewhere that:

        Stanza #1; hints at the Hunts start
        Stanza #5: hints at the Hunts End
        Stanza #6: provides hints also

        I have a triple confirmation from the poem for my WWWH & at least one hint – and 2 strong corroborations from TToTC and multiple aberrations from TToTC…


        • Hi GCG: okay, so sounds like you were never investigating Toltec Gorge, then, as a treasure chest possibility. But I think if you read back through your posts, you’ll see that they definitely come across that way.

          “Lugnutz, suggested that you and I may have the same WWWH. I don’t know how he would know because I was under the impression that you would never give up your WWWH because you are that sure of it.”

          Hah! I think you can trust your instincts about the unlikelihood of Lugnutz knowing my WWWH. I certainly wouldn’t have shared it. And if by chance he figured it out on his own, I think it’s very likely he’d have posted it here because his main motivation is to get Forrest’s puzzle solved expeditiously.

          “But a recent statement of his said something to the extent that he was trying to decide whether to search his area or yours…this summer.”

          A funny thing to ponder given he doesn’t know where my area is. But you may well be right that he *thinks* he knows.

          “I have a triple confirmation from the poem for my WWWH & at least one hint – and 2 strong corroborations from TToTC and multiple aberrations from TToTC…”

          Let me know when you get to a half-dozen hints from the poem, and a couple hundred from the books and Scrapbooks. Then we could very well be on the same page. 🙂

          • Zaphod,

            You are one of the people who I am concerned about (?) being disappointed in the final solution.

            Forrest mentioned “detours” in his last 6 questions. Well my initial solve and several other ideas I’ve had about how to potentially interpret the clues in the poem were super cool – one of them was so good I’m not telling anyone because it would make a spectacular successor poem clue BUT these were all detours. Cool, smart, and truly founded possibilities but not expositionally consistent – they were GCG leaking into the interpretations…

          • GCG: I’m touched that you’re concerned about how I’ll react to the final solution, but believe me win or lose, right or wrong, I’ll be just fine. I feel I’ve solved Forrest’s poem to my satisfaction; should someone else retrieve the chest first, but not reveal their solution, perhaps I’ll spill mine here. That way even if it’s wrong, searchers may at least be able to appreciate why I had high confidence in it.

            On the other hand, if Forrest announces that the treasure chest has been found this summer, that the finder wishes to remain anonymous, and I have mysteriously disappeared from Dal’s blog like our Curious Hobbit, then perhaps an eyebrow or two will rise to consider the possibilities… 😉

    • GCG, am I reading that right? You started on Aug 15, 2017? In 6 months time you have solved this whole thing?
      That may be possible, buuuutttt, I would think finding the last number to infinity would be easier. Wow, 6 months? Sorry, I just don’t see someone researching all the possible avenues in 6 months. You sound very sure of yourself, but who knows, if the miracle of life can happen, I guess solving f’s poem could be done in 6 months. Did you have a lot of help. or is this just all your solve? I’m very curious. I feel like the buzzard in the Bugs Bunny cartoons.
      Hey, if you have, I’m very impressed. Lol, I’m VERY impressed… Good luck…

      • Charlie
        6mo sounds like a very reasonable amount of time to figure out a good idea or several. You didn’t account for the tools that are available that wasn’t before like vast amounts of Reddit posts, websites like Dals, etc as well as tarryscant.
        By having a digital ttotc makes formatting notes into a more logical form as well as easy searchable.
        does all this mean its possible to get it right? Of course not, but having a confidence makes the process that much faster.

      • Charlie,

        In my business, we believe in the power of negative data and I have approx. 7 years of it…

        If you’ve never seen it or if anyone here has never seen it, you should watch the VOX magazine attempt to find Forrest Fenn’s Treasure:


        It is very instructive and provides a huge amount of negative data assessment as well as providing a nice run down of the “most probable solves” at that time. Also there is some great scientific data in that presentation and you can search it up independently, as well.

        My point is, seldom does anyone ever do anything great or extraordinary with out standing on the shoulders of others.

        And I don’t want to be overly humble either and I don’t want to discount luck because there was an element of luck in the process of coming to my conclusions which catalyzed and supercharged my drive to complete the solve.

        But Forrest deserves 95% of the credit – honestly if he had just walked away from the game, I’m not sure it ever would have been found.


      • Charlie;

        I had my basic solve in less than six months. It has now taken another 20 months (including two spring/summer search seasons) to “fine-tune” my basic search. Once my “Basic” solve took me to my designated search area, all I have done is refine it from there. True, I still do not have Indulgence, but am confident that all of the “prep” work has been done – well most of it anyway. Good luck GCG – prove us old guys that it can be done – JDA

        • I’m not saying that JDA, I had my area within 6 months to a year and of coarse, fine tuned. That is the thing, it takes a very long time to: fine tune, research, fail, recover, more research, critique, fine tune some more, be sure of a spot, fail again, fine tune, understand, etc…etc…etc…all the angles needed to be able to come out and say, “oh I’ve solved everything”, “my way, can’t be wrong”, etc…etc…etc…
          In 6 months, I would expect a certain amount of restraint. More like, ” I believe I’m right, but who knows”, “I’ve put in some time and have a solve, let’s hope”, something like that. I’m not trying to totally knock him down. More like trying to say there is more involved.
          It just comes off more like the one and dones. Been at it a whole week and I’m smarter than everyone type. That’s all JDA. Like I said, if he is correct, lol, I am totally impressed. Especially if it was all just only his ideas. Don’t know how he would arrive at my spot only after 6 months and nobodies ideas except his, but I guess possible.
          He’s had boots on the ground, so still could be in the realm of possibility, but you’ve been at this what, 3 years now? Think you have most of the answers? I don’t think I do. Do you believe you have “some” answers? I think I do. Now pose those questions to someone here 3,4,5,6 months. I’m sure they will, but from what you know, now what do you think?
          I like his drive, contributions, and hope he’s not easily disappointed, because 6 months to me says 1 angle. There are so many that need to be addressed. Even for someone who’s been here for 3 years, even 7, and even the “Dals” whom have been at it since he turned in his scuba gear. Just way too much info to have to process.
          We could know a lot about gravity in a short amount of time,( just jump out of a plane, you’ll learn quick), but still, after all these years, cannot entirely explain it. To many unknowns to research in such a short time.
          And, 70 is now the new 50, not that old. Fenn will probably live to 120, look at all the fun he’s having. Just needs to control his laughter.

          I’ve read the Vox view, don’t think much of it. Didn’t see much as far as solving the poem. Just going to places that have certain characteristics that the poem has, but in a way of “solving”? I’ll just say it was a nice presentation, and entertaining. You guys are right though, there will be a lot of failure before succeeding, I agree, it’s what I’m saying. Truthfully, I hope things turn out for you, I hope it’s all great, I think you’re smart, and who knows, may very well be, I guess I would just spend the time now looking at different angles, even the foolish ones, to see if I find anything. And, critique my solve so severely, that when I posted my solve, I would have a logical explanation. That alone could take a year of fine tuning. At least IMO, No harmful intentions here, just surprise. If someone does solve this within 6 months, lol, that would be awesome. Just unbelievable, and deserves everything that the chase had to offer. But that would also mean that you, JDA, would lose our bet, so I win either way:).

          • I’ve been biting my tongue while reading this exchange… the logic seems so unsound to me.

            IMO, it is possible that a person could have an AHA moment on the solve of WWWH after reading the poem the first time. Why not? And if so, what time constraints would there be in working out hoB? And why would there be weeks or months to it?

            Just because we don’t know of anyone having found it after all these years, doesn’t mean that some new searcher couldn’t come along and solve it in their first week.

            Others’ failures aren’t proof or evidence for anything in discounting the possibilities for anyone else. IMO.

          • charlie,

            I’m with HaydukeCC on this subject. Just because some have been looking from the start, 8 yrs now, doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be impractical for someone new with less than 6 months of looking.

            Maybe they have a different way of understanding and looking. No, harm is meant in saying, I see a little frustration, and that would be expected.

            I for one had started looking about 6 months ago. It’s somewhat disheartening to the new guy solving and searching with thoughts of maybe its too soon.

            Never the less I believe fully with my solve and everyone else I’m sure feel the same way. Luck has nothing to do in finding the TC, the one that finds it put in the hard work no matter how much time is spent.

            Just my view point and IMO

          • Charlie,

            My conclusion relative to how good the VOX “solves” were, are similar to yours but for someone starting out it provides a broad overview and it instructs one on the ridiculous nature of what you are actually attempting to accomplish.
            — SAY WHAT! Find a 10″x10″x 5-6″ bronze box in the entire Rocky Mountains, I mean REALLY. Is that even possible give some cryptic poem talking about stuff like; warm waters, Browns, meeks, paddles and blazes…

            That’s crazy!

            Unless, you can see something substantially more in poem…

            The other piece in the VOX program which I really liked was their more scientific take on this version of the Treasure Map:

            When first starting out I thought there had to be a way of doing this kind of analysis since clearly much of the area on the official map from TFTW could be eliminated on elevation alone and one of the Rabbit Holes I also keyed in on was the Pinon Nut fiasco and this was a parameter that I thought could really narrow the map. I went on to discover others had already done this also…And still later, that Fenn had redacted this comment!

            Another rabbit hole was Yellowstone artist Grafton Tyler Brown, for a while I thought this held great promise especially if I could just figure out the exact position where he painted the Yellowstone canyon.

            Each of these holes were instructive as they exemplified much of the same methodologies which had been tried and failed before me.

            So it forced me to keep looking for Forrest’s method; how was it that he thought or intended the poem could be solved.

            Forrest seems to tell a number of stories about women who I would call characters and what women in history is known for her “Unsinkable” character; Molly Brown — But it too was just another pluck verses reading and understanding the poem.

            The luck I’m referring to, is what in my particularly cases, that I took away from each of the “way-to-many” rabbit holes (maybe 10 a night sometimes) although admittedly; Toltec Gorge and Grafton Brown, I sent way too much time TRYING to construct a solve around them (I was enamored in one case with the location and in the other the person). But in my case I was lucky to take away the right informative pieces such that when finally I succumbed too the poem, I had enough parts to see his actual methods and meanings or to be capable of recognizing clues for what they were when happening on them…

            Does that make sense?


        • Charlie & JDA,

          One of my favorite Sherlock Holmes quote in our TToTC :
          “Don’t miss the forest for the trees. It is not the amount of information that counts but the relevant one.”

          The Sherlock methodology:
          1.Understand the problem to be solved
          2.Collect the facts
          3.Develop hypotheses to explain the facts
          4.Eliminate the least likely hypotheses to arrive at the solution
          5.Act on the solution



          • Good luck to Ya’. Spring is just around the corner. There seems to be a lot of folks, like yourself, chomping at the bit this year. Let’s hope Forrest’s gut it correct – JDA

          • GCG – you noted a Sherlock Holmes quote:

            “Don’t miss the forest for the trees. It is not the amount of information that counts but the relevant one.”

            I believe the following quote appropriately reflects the problem some people have with the information in FF’s books:

            “A wealth of information creates a poverty of attention.” Herbert A. Simon

            Too much information and having to parse such large amounts of it seems to provide the opportunity to interpret a seemingly infinite number of combinations and tangential possibilities. Add that to our own human nature to have confirmation bias and you have a chase with thousands of people with thousands of different solves that seem equally as passionate that their solve is correct. IMO

          • CGC,

            I guess the only thing for me to say is “Different strokes for different folks”

            As I said earlier, I’m rooting for you and and wish you the best in your solve.

          • Hi JDA: yes, spring can’t come soon enough. You (and perhaps most) may be a little surprised to learn that the phrase is “champing at the bit,” though it is quite understandable why most everyone says chomping. Similar to butt-naked vs. buck naked: the former is funnier.

          • Zap – One learns something every day. I have always heard it as chOmping not chAmping – but since they mean the same – I guess I am still ok – JDA

        • JDA and pdenver,

          Just got back to the computer…tax season things to tend to.

          Thanks to both of you for replying.

          I hope both of you have great success with your solves as either one solves it or both get closer to your respective solutions this Spring season.

          Be safe out there and once again, many thanks.

        • TighterFocus & Afana,

          The “Correct Solve” leaves little room for hunting and pecking about.

          However Forrest has said that a person who has even the “first few clues” correct could find the Treasure – it is possible (and I agree with this estimation).

          Afana, I have not read any of your post before but I am impressed by your full time job being this chase since 2015. I’m impressed because it seems so logical too me. Many people spend thousands of dollars in there life -time playing lottos or gambling and many others will work their whole life and not have very much to show for the effort and toil.

          Taking and devoting 6000 or even 12000 hours to finding the Fenn Treasure would be a worthwhile investment of time, especially if you were someone who knew how to convert for the extra points…

          What I mean by that is, if your anything like me you have had to invest a lot of time into examining a large number of possibilities and each of these possibilities have been largely educational and instructive. Most of this information is not useless and has value all on its own. Finding Indulgence hidden in the Rockies or not, I have already collected many treasures!


        • Thanks pdenver for covering for me.

          Yes JDA, Forrest didn’t say exactly that;
          ‘Everyone needs an intersection’

          Its more like \:
          “Everybody does need an intersection… don’t they?”


        • Intersection.

          Rumor has it that Forrest arrived early for a restaurant book signing.

          He asked a nearby waitress, “Is the Men’s room in the back?” “Yes, she replied, in the back and through the right door.” Forrest said, “I figured that, through the door to the left and down that hill, you would quickly find a pretty little waterfall.”

          Later that waitress learned that all the commotion in the restaurant was a book signing and who that gentleman was that she spoke with for a moment. She bought a TTOC book, got it signed and left that day telling Forrest, “Thank you so much! I quit my job a few minutes ago and will be using that, “left to the waterfall,” hint that you shared with me to find the gold and jewels!”

          The moral of that story is…well you figure it out…all IMHO.

  42. I woke up this morning thinking about – heavy loads – I think it can also mean a highway (heavy loads) if its below home of brown – take the highway north from there to waters high this is just a thought and an opinion

  43. If anyone is interested I am having a contest for 7 treasure hunting books.
    3 of which are Forrest Fenn’s – so if you need a copy check it out
    The Thrill of the Chase
    Too Far to Walk
    Once Upon a While
    You can join the Facebook group “Cowlazars Grand Adventure” for details or email me cowlazars@gmail.com
    ~ Cowlazars

    • Hey MDC,

      I really enjoyed your Vlog#59 regarding the strange James Frey telephone call – you had me going too!

      The 8 year old bottle of champagne was a nice touch!

      Anyway I enjoy much of you Vlog – thanks for being a very cool part of the Chase!

      PS the strange book you received Vlog … was creepy, MAN!

  44. To get a handle on how to read THE poem, I’d like to find any other poems FF has written. So far I’ve randomly looked through 20 or so scrapbooks and found 4 lines in 177. Can anyone point me towards any others please?

    • Hi Robert: try SB 164 (which is also heavily altered in Once Upon a While Chapter 35). And Forrest also wrote Dal a short little poem in SB 70 — a poem with as many hints as there are dents in Esmeralda. 😉

  45. That’s great! I am lost.
    What are layers in the poem?
    I know what layers mean in cakes and earth but not written words.
    Maybe my pea brain can’t figure this out so I’m out.

      • I will attempt to illustrate what layers are like by using a random statement not related to this poem:

        “Hence he went and found the chalice”

        Assume this is from a poem that has directions encrypted within.

        One or more layers of information may be found in definitions alone…eg:
        “hence” has more than one meaning:
        1) as a consequence, or for this reason.
        2) in the future

        Now read the line again but insert any of those three definitions. Do you see how that alters your understanding of what is being said. Besides bringing more light to whatever may precede the line in our poem;
        It also changes the meaning of the entire line and whatever may follow also.

        Later, you may discover a place (while you have boots on the ground) known as “Henced”.

        This would be a landmark layer…and so on and so on…or would that be soon? get it?
        so on…soon? Silly me.

        If you understood what you just read, you now know what is meant by layers.

        I hope this was helpful…of course you could have already known these things and weren’t sincere in your question, but I hope that is not the case.
        Hey, I just displayed different layers of thought just now.
        Don’t mind me, I just love teaching.
        Best wishes and a triple layered chocolate cake,
        Goodnight All

      • Windy City,
        The best way I can explain the double layers is to use an example from a song by the Bellamy Brothers. The title of one of their songs is, “ If I said You Had A Beautiful Body”. In the lyrics a sentence says “ If I Said you had a beautiful body, would you hold it against me”…… that sentence can be read two ways, therefore producing two layers, depending on how it’s interpreted……
        That’s the best example I can think of, I hope this helps you… have a great day… until next time… see ya

      • looks like searchers interpretations of layers are just as vague as the poem itself. I guess we have to pick the right layer for each word and/or phrase.

        • Yes—-it all comes down to interpretation. The other day I grabbed an apple out of a bag and my wife said “you should wash your fruit before you eat it”.

          So the next day I was at the sink with the water running. And my wife asked “Why are you rinsing all of those oranges”? And I said “well, you said we should wash the fruit before we eat it”

          She just shook her head and walked away. But when I am given instructions I tend to follow them .

          • If this is the case then it seems we are all using layers to interpret the poem.
            And we do not need the word “layers” to describe our process seeing it’s just an interpretation of words either way.
            Am I right or wrong or am I missing something?

    • Kraft-

      When I spoke of layers this is what I meant…….

      1. Each word has a meaning…often multiple different ones for the same word. ( i.e. fire) like “fire when ready” is different than” the forest is on fire” which is different than “if you do that again I am going to fire you.”

      2. Multiple words can be put together to make a single concept. (i.e. I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak)
      IMO-as I have said before, this sentence means—“end of the rainbow”

      3. Possibly there are other layers, I am just not sure. Personally I am looking for the icing on the cake (a concept)

      Best of luck;


      • Sometimes when I read the forums I feel there are a lot of smart people working on this. And Yet here we all are in year 8 of “The Chase.”

        Does anyone else find their mind pulling them into thinking about “The Chase” at random times during the day?

        For example when I go to the store and see 9 layer dip I now think of the 9 clues and start reading the ingredients because I want to see what makes up each layer.

        And then my daughters wanted me to watch a movie with them and I hear the theme song by Sia and couldn’t help but smile.


        Am I the only one? Or do others have similar experiences?

      • I have no idea what you’re referring to dodo— are you responding to a post? If so, which one?

      • Dodo—
        Never mind. I think I know what your post was in response to. By the way, didn’t dodos go extinct?

          • Dodo—

            Just curious– above you said that you think the chest is 300 feet from the parking lot plus two more feet. We’re you being serious about that? We Sparrows have pea brains and cannot discern humor from real statements at times. lol

          • Sparrow- your pea brain is causing you to mis quote what i said, the problem isnt a matter of discern.
            my reply was to tighterfocus who asked a general question to the audience….”how long is the hike to indulgence from a reasonable parking place?” and my answer was – about 300 feet and then exactly two feet. if i had intended to say 302 feet i would have said 302 feet but that is not what i intended. i’ll say it again… i believe indulgence lies about 300′ from a reasonable parking place and then the searcher needs exactly two feet.
            and a camera, but tighterfocus didnt say anything about a camera. whats in a name anyway.
            i think.

  46. Seeker and Curious Hobbit are in South Korea for the Olympics. Seeker is in the ten thousand meter cross country skiing competition. He will be reciting his posts– hopefully he will be able finish reciting before the race is over.
    Curious Hobbit is snow-boarding for New Zealand and hopes to come home with a gold medal.

  47. ” …however for 5 plus years the status of the chase has basically remained unchanged up until July or perhaps even October of last year,…” GCG

    GCG: i can’t recall the exact date, but in late December 2016, Fenn advised the finder (everyone assumed then that there was one) to place TC in a vault and think for a month before acting on his next move. The buzz, then, was it was directed to the finder.

    i gave up on the chase then, assuming it has been retrieved. Have not followed the chase until his last tv interview.

  48. Robert—

    I’ve always suspected Forrest is the author of the poem in SB 146. He attributes it to a person—but that person is an artist, not a poet, and I can find no record of any poems by the person. I may be wrong–but as far as I have researched I have found no author for the poem which starts the SB.

  49. Within the last hour I had an epiphany and I think I have the final piece of my solve. I had been struggling at the end of the poem but it all just fell into place, sort of by accident.

    My solve goes in order and is married to a map. My solve doesn’t discount any words and I can tie many of ff’s remarks to it and even TTOTC, which until recently, I had not researched very much.

    I hope I’m not sounding like I’m gloating because that’s not my intent… but at this moment, I feel that if I don’t tell somebody I will burst!!

    I’m certainly not saying that my solve is correct but it’s the best I’ve got. I’ll have to put BOTG this spring when my vacation time rolls around!


    • Go get it, and I believe in you. As long as this hunt goes on and on and on, regardless of the few that disagree, I will be happy.

      • Fisherfenn, That is one of the kindest replies that I have read. This is one of the reasons that I only read ( but rarely comment) on Dal’s blog. It is full of people like yourself that have generosity of the spirit. I just had to say.

      • Thanks! I don’t want to reveal my state of interest just yet… I’ll eliminate Montana, though. lol

        Happy hunting. Be safe!


      • Fisherfenn-
        For the past week the blog has been so inundated with visitors that it was very difficult to get connected here. But the torrent of tourists has dissipated and the number of folks trying to connect to the blog is back to normal. Folks should have an easier time connecting now.

        • Dal—-

          Kind of like “looky-loos” at the scene of a accident. Only a few stop to actually offer help. lol

  50. Zap,

    Do you want to play a game since we are both waiting fervently for Summer? I call it the: “You know, that I know, that you know, I know” – game. It will be fun, I promise…

    Since we both know our own respective WWWH, we should in theory be capable of asking the other person a creative question which doesn’t at all give anything away, except perhaps to someone who has the exact same solve for WWWH.

    Then the other person answers the question with an equally vague response such that only the other person can gauge whether or not the answerer understood the original question or not.

    Then the responder becomes the questioner, with the original questioner now being the responder.

    In the end, if both people have the same WWWH solution then:
    They know, that they know, that they know! And others can have fun trying to read between the lines.

    I’ll start:

    On Mysterious Questions last year Forrest got asked this question:
    “Dear Forrest, You often say imagination is more important than knowlege. Using your imagination, what do you think your hidden ‘Treasure Chest’ would be saying, if it could talk? Do you think it likes where it is at? Is it enjoying the weather? Does it feel lonely? Is it anxious to be found? or just what might it be thinking? ”

    “Jenny, Thanks for misspelling knowledge for me. I am sure the treasure chest relishes her guardianship of the rich objects that are concealed in her care, and over which she stands sentinel. They are still in hibernation, but will soon waken as the spring warmth gestures for the Long Tailed Ermine to start turning back into weasels, and the bears start peeking out. I think the gold will again become alert to the tromp and vibrations of hiking boots. Are they hopefully anticipating? I don’t know. f””

    Zap, if you were to use your imagination, what else could Forrest have added to his reply?

    PS. I told you it could be fun!

      • Hi pdenver. This is off-topic, well sort of, but not.


        ..in that I raised ferrets for 10 years, sort of like a foster family. Kept them until they found a home or returned to the original family.

        Most often, we ended up keeping many.

        Just to ease the mood this Sat morn…the names used called them.

        A Pink Champagne purebred was our first. We bought her and for the life of me, I can’t remember her name. My wife adored her.
        Then there was, Mojo(-man), Samson, Artemis, Dart, Rocky, and a few others to go along with those. Can’t think of them right now.

        But….my point is that domesticated furry monsters are much different than a wild or feral one.


        • Hello Tim (ZosoRocks). This is true, but I think if the “domesticated furry monsters” were threatened, I believe they would act in their normal instincts. Last weekend, I saw a domesticated rabbit that thought it was a cat. It was quite funny to see. The two were always around each other.

          • The easiest way to tell a domesticated one from a feral one….nowadays….”Marshall Farms”…is the main breeder of kit ferrets, so they are required to mark domesticated kits.

            They mark them in one or both ears. Usually just one…..and it will have two blue tattooed circle marks.

            One is to signify the ferret was descended – which is very very very good.
            – they are of the skunk family, if that tells you anything.

            The other if it is feral or not. No 2nd mark, means it is only descented….and will probably be “more feral” than domesticated.

            The latter types are not nice to humans. I rescued one or tried to – Ferrets Across America – thinking domestic all the way…..beautiful all white female.

            It hated being a second female to Helena, and would attack Helena for no reason. It was bad at times. The new girl was moved back into the hands of the humane society. Can’t even remeb.er her name. It was sad, very good looking animal.


          • @ Tim – Just messing with ya, but have to ask, “descended” from what? (I think you meant to type descented). 🙂

          • LOL I was just reading that post last night and also saw the typo. Interestingly enough, I said to myself….”darn, but whoever reads the entire post will see the connection and correct wording, they retead the post!! – no worries.”


            Ya know some blogs have an “edit” click, that allows you to edit your post, if within 24 hours.

            I wonder if Dal ever thought about adding one?

            Cheers….I do it all the time….and now just realize typos are inevitable for me.

          • Tim,

            I soooo want an EDIT feature on this forum…

            Dal, I don’t know who your computer wiz is but please ask them if they would be kind enough to add the edit feature to your Forum site.



          • There will be no edit feature installed on this blog. Nor the ability to add images to comments…
            You are what you right… 🙂

      • Hi pdenver: you can file this one under the large file of backward/reversed quotes/sayings from Forrest (e.g. Tony Bennett lyrics, God subtracts quote, Mz. Maven’s bumper sticker, pillowed down and scented in, rather switch than fight, and probably a couple dozen other examples).

    • What I really love about Forrest’s references, is that they often send me scrambling off to learn something new from another book, online article, or information repository (Wikipedia).

      The funny thing is that such things as ermines, Least Chipmunks, sagebrush, etc. are each prolific in all four of the search states.

      Regardless, I’ve learned many new things over the course of my chase-related research.

    • Hi GCG: I’m not sure the game/exercise would be very tantalizing to other searchers. And I’m already confident that our WWWH’s are not the same based on your past posts.

      As for the “tromp and vibrations” MW Q&A, perhaps the treasure chest is forever asking itself, “Why am I always so cold?”

      • I think FF’s use of the word “tromp” was a small hint,
        and it reminds me of “frogs”. Doesn’t FF seem to be
        interested in frogs?

        • TF,

          Tromp for me is another Forrest artifact which we can add to his body of artifacts gathered from all his writings but most explicitly those comments and replies specifically directed at the chase.

          I have said before that it seems to me, Forrest has endeavored to provide the seach community with hints which if correctly applied inform us as to how the poems clues can be interpreted.

          For example, “tromp” can mean; heavy walking. This makes me immediately think of
          “heavy loads.” And interestingly enough an Old English meaning for “load” was “conveyance”…

          The legal process of transferring real property from one person to another.


  51. Long time, first time….
    Consider this, if you knew where the TC was hidden would you simply mill around until summer 2018 to go claim it. Personally, I would be on the next flight that landed as close to the “Blaze” as possible. Of course, I could always be a good sport and give others a chance at finding it…. ; )

    • Dean;

      If you knew where it was, but suspected that because of winter conditions, you would not be able to retrieve it, or if you believed that winter conditions would make getting to “The site” would be more hazardous – would you still jump on that plane?

      To me, common sense tells me that if the answer to the two questions is that I could NOT retrieve it, or that getting to it WOULD be more hazardous, I would stay home and wait for spring – and that is exactly why I am staying home. JMO – JDA

      • I share that opinion as well and I know we are not alone in that thought.

        Dean and others anxious to get BOTG,
        Forrest has implored many times to put your boots up in the winter and make safety a priority. Plus the biggest advice Forrest has given is that many good solves are ruined by poor execution. I fell prey to that folly by jumping on what I felt was a solid solve and never made it to the solve location because I hadn’t done my due diligence. There is more to finding the treasure than solving the poem as Google Earth won’t give you a real solid expectation of the wildness of remote areas. Dal has a list on the Home page of things you should have with you.

        I know you might already have known all of that last stanza but it is more for everyone else who wants to leap without looking. As, I think it was you JDA, others have stated, once you have a good solve take a few days off and then come back to it and see if you can find any flaws.

        • Idle Dreamer;

          I must confess, I might have said something like that, but I was only repeating what a few searchers before me have said – and they are far smarter that I am. JDA

      • JDA, Good logic and yes I’ll have to dig for my common sense. I’m sure it’s around here somewhere.
        I posted my intro by saying I was in all four states last summer. I went back to Montana and Wyoming in October 2017. I have yet to hunt for the treasure. I did have a great time with my family and fly fishing. We are heading back in June. Now that I’m familiar with the area I’m ready to check my work. I’m certainly not a threat to anyone, but I feel I have some good solves that go in order along with the clues in the poem. In fact, it can be ridiculous when you realize how many different solves can be entertained throughout the Rockies.
        I’ll have my family along when I personally decide to go.
        Apologies if I’ve hit a nerve with anyone. I certainly would NOT recommend going into a hazardous situation. Thanks for the reply and happy hunting!

    • Hi Dean,

      I would be out in the woods right now (with what I think I know) except after over 50 BOTG trips in two seasons of searching I might have developed small amounts of wisdom and patience. That restraint is tempered partly by age and experience, but still not easy for an extreme sports guy (hang gliding and such). I guess I’d have to side with JDA and wait for spring…uh, maybe early spring 🙂


    • It’s by far easiest to retrieve in late summer or fall, IMO.

      Far more hazardous in spring and early summer.

      • Good advice (At the Top).
        I will wait until late summer.
        There’s no rush. It will still be there.
        I will only search in late summer or early fall.
        No guarantees on anything.

      • Not here or there but when it’s over I would not be surprised to learn FF hid the treasure in August. That’s because there is AU in the name of the month.

    • Dean,

      Forrest has said,”If you know precisely where it is you can probably retrieve it in any weather” but “Google Earth cannot help with the last clue.” And “Snowy days are a searcher’s enemy” so “wait for the snow to melt and the mud to dry.”

      Additional thoughts from Forrest are; “there is no substitute for thinking and planning and observing and looking at maps”

      Based on my knowledge of the area Dean and my take on the last clue mud and snow are the enemy to solving the last clue. I’m taking the architects advice…even though I really don’t want too; patience and good execution is another requirement of the chase.

      PS Bob Miller I believe strongly that Forrest hid the treasure in August, almost all the evidence suggest this.


  52. JDA,
    When ff said summer, i assumed the TC area must not be easily accessible because of still thick snowpacks in spring. To me that suggest that it is in the higher elevations of the Rockies. Do you think it is nearer the 10K than the 5 K elevation? What areas have such conditions? (picking your brain here) Thanks.

    • My parents live at about 6,000 feet in MT and if it is a heavy snow year the snow can still be around when June hits. By mid-June the snow is usually gone at their elevation. If you want to search in May at a high elevation just make sure to pay attention to the snow levels. The downside is that this makes it really hard to book hotel rooms in advance if you are aching to get to your solve area as soon as the snow is gone.

      • Thanks, Idle Dreamer.
        My solves are higher than 6K. i’ll plan on a July BOTG. Meantime, i’ll explore drivable NM.

        • Snow pack and snowmelt vary by year, of course, sometimes dramatically. But there’s also a big difference as you move north – the Chase Map covers a lot of ground, and northern NewMex is likely to be clearer much earlier than northern Montana.

          Treeline in the Colorado Rockies, f’r’example, is (broadly speaking) around 11k, while in northern Montana it’s more like 6-7k.


    • Hi DeerX2;

      An interesting question. I have never disclosed my search area, to say that I think that the treasure is closer to 5000′ would disclose a lot, or if I say that it is closer to the 10,200′ elevation, likewise would disclose a lot. So, sorry, I would prefer not to answer your question – Yes, it is between those two elevations.

      There are places in Wyoming that have very severe winters with LOTS of snow, and areas that have lesser amounts of snow – The amount of snowfall in your search area will very much dictate when it is safe to search, and when it is not.

      Sorry, I am being very evasive, but think it best, just as Forrest frequently chooses to evade answering some questions.

      TRY and STAY SAFE, and Happy Hunting – JDA

  53. Everyone, including Dean

    Please don’t jump the gun and run out during this remaining winter season. I am in the same boat, wanting to go now. There are so many things which can go wrong. It is not worth the risk unless your search area is sunny, clear and you can take a helicopter to the spot.

    Oh, on second thought, maybe I can get a chopper! But the landing might be difficult. There it is again! Just wait. My amazing wife has been very supportive up to now, but if I told her I wanted to go now, she would chain me to my desk. When I talk to her about the Chase, she smiles lovingly and just chuckles.

    I plan on making her a true believer soon, but as in the words of the gladiator friend of Maximus, “No Yet”.


      • Franklin and others,
        Yes… Please try to keep your heads and make only well considered decisions in your continued quests for Mr Fenn’s treasure..
        In spite of the fact that many hundreds of people die in persuit of their chosen outdoor activities every year… The press ( for whatever reason) continues to fixate on those unfortunate few who fall in the course of their search for the treasure…
        Though they have died doing what they loved, it must weigh heavily on Mr Fenn’s enormously generous heart.
        I say to him now, without presuming to speak for us all, that I for one would much rather die in the wilds of the Rocky mountains, by whatever means, then be taken by a massive heart attack under the cold florescent lights of a cramped office cubicle!

        That being said…. Let’s try not to let it happen again folks!

        • Its all about sensationalism and the ability of media to influence thoughts.
          Which is more likely to go national, generate anger, sympathy, or outrage:
          Kaayak guide dies in yellowstone
          Man who died in Yellowstone was looking for hidden treasure

          While any sudden loss of life is sad. One can be capitalized upon by the media.

          • Kira,

            I totally agree, it’s the biggest reason I won’t go searching until spring has sprung.

            The conditions of my search area right now are what my friends and I want for snowmobiling and snowshoeing, but I won’t go there.

            I live in the mountains in Montana and if something happened while I was hiking on my property, no one would ever hear about it.


          • Welderon. I am not familiar with the mountains in Montana. Will there still be snow at 7000 feet in the last week of May, as that is when I am planning to search.
            Thanks in advance.

          • Hi John R, it’s a strange year for snow with the upper elevations way above normal (in some areas), but not that great for snow machines in the lower. Last year I was able to drive up to my search area by the first of may, but there was still snow in most places at the 7000′ level. Probably doable by end of May, but it’s any body’s guess.

  54. Jonsey—

    Your post is so far above I thought I’d post anew. You really grabbed my interest with the two horses that you mentioned in your post. Ever since I started “the Chase” I’ve noticed many “coincidences”. And many are just that: coincidence.

    But others stop and make you think. Very early on (about a month into this) I came up with a “solve”. And my Blaze was a Lightning formation you could see from the air. I still wonder about that solve and haven’t entirely given up on out either.

    I hadn’t written to Forrest before but decided to e-mailed him. I told him my Dad had been a P-38 pilot in WW2. I was surprised when Forrest e-mailed back and said he “loved the P-38 and the P-51 “Mustang” and used to draw pictures of them in High School. He said he loved the sound of their Rolls Royce engines.

    I quickly remembered that the P-38 is called “Lightning”. I shared my solve later with Forrest which he may not have read because it was so long. lol. I was just excited to share it with someone.

    I received one more response from FF regarding those planes also. Since then I have had almost no replies from him and that’s OK–he must get inundated with e-mails.

    But I remember reading Forrest state “I felt like I got hit by lightning today..” in one of his writings, and also in SB146 he mentions a tree being hit by lightning as he, his wife, and their little dog watched.

    So I have often thought lightning might have something to do with the Chase. But I was unaware he once had a horse named Lightning also. The fact that the P-38 is “Lightning” and the P-51 is “Mustang” and they were his favorite airplanes intrigues me.

    Your post kind of brought all of that back to my mind again and wanted to share that. “Lightning” and “Brown” I find very interesting indeed.

    • Thanks for sharing, Sparrow 🙂

      I think some of the P-38s also used the “Allison” engine…cant help but chuckle at little Allison offering a million bucks for a hint, yet being required to remember what was on the back of the envelope. I still hope one day she may tell us, maybe a drawing of Merlin? Lol.

      • Thanks Jonsey. I forgot to mention one other thing—-Forrest mentions the “Rolls Royce” engines and how he loved their sound in those airplanes.

        At the very end of SB 145 “The Bullet” he says “Eat your heart out Mr. Rolls Royce”. That kind of intrigues me a bit. lol

  55. I’m currently reading Journal of a Trapper……Again!!
    Not sure why that book calls for me so often, but I feel I could walk in the footsteps of Osborne Russell……or at least find an arrowhead. ; )
    Anyone else a navigator of Russell…..

    • I’m curious– when you read that Journal Of A Trapper, do you have a map browser open?

      For me, I’m always trying to figure out where he/they are at the time of each diary entry, and I find that continuing puzzle the most interesting.

      I have been on fifteen trips to that general area and the best thing I ever found was a small cherry-colored piece of petrified wood.

      Good luck.

      • Muset,
        Ha, you got me pegged. I trace each day carefully and I do have a map so full of markers you can hardly see the map beneath. I have also been educated on our history, Indian tribes and their demeanor, as well as the comments made that sound……well, let’s just say fennish. lol ; ) Oh yeah, if you are having a difficult time finding a certain location, keep in mind what Russell called locations then are not necessarily what they are called now. (hint)
        What I plan when I visit this coming June Is to go to the places where he had significant encounters with the Indians/tribes, and of course, his descriptions of being in a certain location where he was mesmerized by the environment. (hint)
        Just think of the value of that “small
        cherry-colored piece of petrified wood!” Memories for life!
        Happy Hunting!

  56. Wow. The flag bearer for the USA team for the closing ceremonies is a female cross country skier that won gold named….J Diggins!

    Who knew!!!?? (She sure gets around!)

  57. There’s an old saying “Lead by example”.

    I’m going to try “leading by example”, by exercising restraint (even though I’m tempted to post about ten times as often as I actually post).

    Maybe someone — who’s apparently desperate — will follow my example by exercising more restraint, instead of continuing to gush hints that
    erode the legacy.

    Of course, my optimism regarding this is very limited. Regardless of
    all this, though, good luck to y’all.

    The above is my opinion.

    • Tight–

      I don’t understand. How does helping others advance towards a common goal “erode” the legacy? IMO it promotes the legacy as more people understand parts of the riddle and promote the search. After all, doesn’t a rising tide raise all boats? Could you clarify your statement?

      IMO Mr. Fenn’s honor is under attack by the media and has been tarnished a bit by the deaths of searchers. We need to find it to rebuke his critics and restore his good name.

      If I find it…..Mr. state police guy gets a lifetime supply of folgers coffee and daylight donuts.

      Your response…..?

      Safe searching…

      1F Billy

      • The poem used to be quite a challenge to solve.
        But the more hints that are provided (that confirm
        solution of one or more clues), the easier it is for a
        searcher to “move forward” to working on the NEXT clue(s).

        Instead of taking 9 or 10 years (or longer) to solve correctly, as perhaps originally intended by FF, the
        poem now appears to have been solved. And it
        will be disclosed that “confirming hints” from FF helped shorten the required solving time, by “lowering the bar” . . . kinda like a “hurdles” race with hurdles only a foot high. Yeah, it’s still a competition, but how impressive is it for someone to complete?

        Making the poem easier to solve “waters it down”
        and will make the overall history of it look like it
        was pretty easy.

        All my opinion. I hope y’all take this to heart.

        • The idea that the chase is easier now is sour grapes from searchers who never had a chance of completing the winning solve. How can any person say for sure what is or isn’t a clue. Most likely the person who solves this thing or us solved it wasn’t spending his tor her time worrying about clues and blog talk. If people would tell the truth it just hurts the ego a bit to know they weren’t smart enough to figure it out. The hate is real I’m glad I never try to pull down someone in order to make myself feel better for failing. Instead I tip my cap and say congrats on being the smartest person in the chase and soon we will find out who that is.

        • Mr. Focus-

          I understand your point.

          However, once the second searcher perished, I have felt the “searcher” community needs to solve the chase to clear Fenn’s name. He alone cannot do it without ruining the quest for everyone..IMO. Most individuals that learn of the challenge refuse to believe anyone would be so benevolent, and deny the treasure even exists. Some searchers are sooo…lost…IMO…I only have tried to help them along the way.

          I believe you and I are very close…..Can I help you?

          I’ll send you a picture of the blaze if you ask Dal to send me your email address. I know no one knows where it is because I left my stuff there and it was undisturbed for six months. (except mice used some of my sweater for bedding) Some of Mr. f’s relics are still there.

          All above is my opinion and the deputy’s

          Peace brother…

          1F Billy

        • Tighterfocus,
          I was just wondering if you would feel the same if a long time searcher like yourself found it first. I personally believe that all of us from the beginning have a better chance, we have a head start. The new comers don’t know Mr. Fenn like we do & they don’t care for him like we do. I personally hope whoever finds the treasure respects everything it represents & realises the beauty behind the journey it took to get there.

          • Hi Birdie,
            I believe it’s going to be you.

            Agree with hopes whomever finds it will treat its location, context, and meaning with respect. I think most here would.

            For everyone else: IMO places that become most imbued with meaning are places where we were hurting and gained some insight or experience that helped us cope with and rise above that hurt to feel more whole, more ourselves, more connected. Not just a pretty place, or a place where we’ve had good times. IMO.

          • Thanks Lady V,
            I hope I’m right too, just like everybody else. I’ve been working several jobs for a year now for the big search. But it will have to wait a little longer now, my mom is having surgery in March & that money will be used to go be with her instead of my treasure hunt. It seems that the forces of the world keep moving my trip to find indulgence further away. Thanks again!

  58. Does anyone have a theory of how to put an X on a map, per FF’s quote, while not being able to find the last clue using GE?

    • Hi Aaron,

      It’s just my opinion, but I think the X on a map comment was has hint about a mapping company. One other possible explanation could be that the X on a map isn’t where the treasure is, but off to the side. Forrest’s BB gun didn’t shoot straight.


    • Aaron;

      I think you are taking it too literally. Follow the clues point A to B to end – whatever shape this produces on a map. Maybe it is a big “C” or a big “S”. Whatever shape the clues lead you. at the last spot – the place that you think Indulgence lies – put a big fat “X” right there. Following the clues will not, in my opinion, create an “X”. YOU put the “X” at the final spot – JMO – JDA

    • Hi Aaron: the context of Forrest’s comment about not putting an X on the map does not indicate what that X would represent if he had. Could be just the general area of the clues, depending on the scale of the map. Or perhaps he’d put the X on the location of WWWH (seeing as how many searchers are convinced that if they had WWWH they should have no trouble solving the rest of the clues — Hah!)

      • Thanks Zap but I am more referring to the quote: ”

        I will try Adell. Read the blogs for entertainment, and the poem like you were going to put an X on a map. Beyond that I am not compelled to reiterate. Hunt prepared and go safely. Good luck. F”

        JDA could be right and maybe I am reading too much into this. One would think that if you could put an X on a map it would refer to an exact location. I just don’t know that the exact end location can be predetermined especially since we know have that the final clue cannot be found on GE.

        • Aaron

          After inputing that quote into my Fenn translator, it tells me he is saying read one for fun and the other one serious. Unfortuantly it doesnt specify which one is which.

        • Aaron;

          Again, don’t tie yourself into knots regarding details. You MAY not know the exact coordinates, or have it solved down to a 10″ X 10″ or 10″ X 5″ rectangle or square, but you can still put an “X” on the map indicating the final search “area”. I am guessing that I have narrowed my search area down to a 20′ X 20′ area, but I know EXACTLY what to look for within that area. YUP, I have an “X” on the map that indicates this 20′ X 20′ area. Even if it is 200′ X 200′, I can still put an “X” on the map, and fine-tune it with BotG.

          Every treasure map (supposedly) has an “X” marks the spot. Dependent on the scale of the map, that “X” may include all of YNP – who knows. It is then up to the searcher to keep getting the “X” smaller and smaller – JMO – JDA

          • Good point JDA, I think a general area is probably about as best as one could hope for. If you have only a 20′ X 20′ area I’d say that is a pretty precise X. The area I am looking at doesn’t look very large from as far as you can zoom in on GE but I know from experience it is much larger in person.

      • Hi Aaron — oh, okay, that quote. I still think that when someone is trying to solve Forrest’s puzzle, their very first goal must be to figure out the starting point, which by now we all know is WWWH. So all Forrest may be saying to Adell (yet another “ell” for those of you keeping score) is to put an X on the map for that starting point. Kind of like having a big map of the Rockies spread out on your dining room table, and jamming your finger down on a spot and saying “THAT is where I need to go!” This way, there is no conflict between putting an X on the map and not being able to find the last clue on GE.

        • Hmm, while putting on X on a map for WWWH would be a good start hypothetical treasure maps are known for X being the treasure location.

          I guess I asked the question because I see many are confident about their solve as seems to be the norm this time of year. I am gaining confidence as well but looking to pin point a final location. Are those that are confident sure about an exact location or for them is the end only found on the ground?

          Trying to use FF’s comments to determine this answer makes my head swim.

    • Arron,

      The only way I was able to put a X on a map was to print out a arial view of my search area and drawing a 500′ circle at the main trail, close by ” up your creek”, where a tangent trail comes to it. Follow that tangent trail which goes to “heavy loads” then draw a 200′ circle there. Following that same trail to “water high” and draw another 200′ circle then if your lucky they all meet, as in my case they did right below the water high, about 200′. So low and behold there it is my X on a map.
      Arron, hope this is a way to help find your X.

      Also searchers have been talking about going out before spring to search. Well only if you know your area is clear of snow, which can be had to know because weather changes in the mountains very quickly. Webcams can help to monitor your area, and according to Forrest they can be. IMP if there are not any webcams in the “big picture” of the area of your search then your in the wrong area. I’m lucky enough to have a live stream webcam about 3 miles away, and a still camera shot that changes about every 30 minutes even closer to my search area. Also watching the weather is easy with “intellicast weather” of the North America that let’s you zoom in to any area you want. I have set up trips on some my searches for the first weeks of March only to have heavy snow hit days before I left after being clear for weeks prior. So choose wisely your time to search and don’t put yourself at risk and especially not knowing your area of search. Sattilite views don’t tell the whole picture, believe me.
      Good luck to all,

      • Thanks for the post Bur. It sure seems like it would work. Had a problem at first, but it finally made sense. What you described, interestingly enough, in my search area, took me to an “Old” area I had visited last summer. Following the circles, led me to a place that Dan (my step-son) saw last summer and wanted to investigate some more – Interesting how things like that can happen – coincidence???? who knows? Thanks again for the post Bur – Always interesting ideas – Good luck to Ya’ Guy – JDA

        • JDA,
          Just seen your comment and wanted to get back to you. Been putting some long hours and three weeks straight at work and I haven’t check that often the blog.

          Anywho, as far as my circle theory it was just a idea relating to Forrest statements of searchers being 500′ and 200′ to where “Indulgence” is hidden. The main trail is one that people travel on but the tangent trail is one maybe only a handful go ( off the path back packers) mainly out of curiosity to see where it leads. Now I being one of those curiosity seekers, and glad I was, as I ventured up it I came across the “no paddle up your creek” and following both the trail and creek I came across “heavy loads” and if you keep traveling up that trail you will run into “water high”. My problem on my last search was I decided to follow the creek to what I thought was the “blaze” seen on a sattilite view of my area. This made for a nice adventure but came up empty hand. So after getting back home and wondering what I did wrong it was most obvious. I should have gone up to water high and searched that area for the blaze.

          Now the circles I talked about especially the 500′ point on the “main trail”” I know other searchers (in the beginning of the chase) have been on this trail as their “canyon down” solve but they went much farther down it to other areas for their solves. But I figured there must be a searcher that took the tangent trail and told Forrest either of the heavy loads or the water high but did not determine them as clue solves. So now the 200′ remark plays into someone being that close to the chest and not knowing.

          So if and when I get the chance to get back out there I will definitely take a look in the three circle X-crossing spot. I took photos last time of that area looking over to water high from my advantage place on top of what I thought was the blaze and now I zoomed in to the area below water high and seen something that stood out in the countryside but it’s a little blurry after zooming in so much so it’s hard to define, and yes it’s white.

          So JDA you said you tried the circle idea and it lead back to a area that had already been searched. Well I hope you guys searched it closely, but most likely you did.

          Good luck with all that leads you to your 20′ X 20′ area. The closes I’m at is about 200′, but hopefully that’s a good thing.


          • Glad that you were able to put your “X” on your map. I hope that with your directions, I too can put the “X” in the right place. Sometimes I am a bit slow in following directions though – JDA

          • Hey Bur;

            I have a question for you. You talk about drawing a 500′ circle. Is this a circle with a 500′ diameter, or a 500′ radius? Sure would appreciate an answer – I may have drawn my circles wrong. JDA

    • Aaron – Fenn said that we all need an intersection. So…solve as many clues as you can, then marry the clues to their respective places on a map. Do the same thing with your hints. Now start connecting your dots. Look for an intersection, or X. Once, I got a circle that enclosed an X that morphed into a peace symbol! Or, was that just my imagination LOL. Pretty exciting at the time since we know we are to “go in peace”. No treasure but the mapping process was a blast. All IMHO.

    • Arron,

      An ‘X’ on a map only provides you with a spot and that spot’s size or exact position varies by the method and distance from which you mark the location.

      For example GPS when it was first implemented for civilians was only accurate to around 10′, so even though the device in your hand is indicating a “eXact” position there is some variance at the level of reality on the ground.

      Additionally over time geographical features do change gradually so if the clues do lead to some “definitive position,” this position may vary over time with the exact position of the treasure chest.

      Lastly, even if you accurately interpret the clues and you find yourself standing at the right geographical position, Forrest has said that “nobody” is going to accidentally find the Treasure Chest; this seems to imply (JIMHO) it is still “camouflaged” or secreted or hidden in a manner which means the last clue reveals a means of identifying that spot or the means of how it is hidden from immediate view.

      For a simple example if the clue lead you to an exact spot which was a cliff face then the treasure depending on the approach position is either below you or above you, therefore you would need to somehow identify where along the vertical plane the treasure is hidden.

      There are a multitude of other possibilities…


      • “An ‘X’ on a map only provides you with a spot and that spot’s size or exact position varies by the method and distance from which you mark the location.”

        Yes this is true. I guess I am just wondering how exact of an area others have for the end of their solve. JDA gave a good example of a 20′ X 20′ area. How large of an area is your final spot, and how much searching would you guesstimate that you need to do once you are there?

  59. DAL,

    Do you or any of the other guy’s know how many of TTOTC books have been sold to date?

    I’m just curious as the number of searchers are increasing.

    Ronnie the Scot

    • Hi Ronnie: as of May of 2017, Forrest says the Collective Works bookstore had sold about 22,000 copies for TTOTC. More surprising to me was that his second memoir, TFTW, had at that time only sold 1500-1800 copies. I don’t think anyone is going to figure out the treasure chest’s location without TTOTC — I think a searcher puts him or herself at a huge disadvantage without it. I would even be so bold as to suggest that a searcher without TFTW is putting themselves up a creek without a paddle. Thus, my thinking is that of the — what is it now — a quarter million people (?) that could be classified as searchers, less than 1% have any real shot at it because they don’t have all the hints/clues.

      • Zap,
        I will have to agree that either having or having “knowlege”, oops misspelled, of the TTOTC book is an advantage with the hints in it. But knowing what those hints are are for ones who understand Forrest’s trails of life. The word that is “key” can be found in it and sorry it not in the poem as I have found. Now as for TFTW some of the stories in it could be found before it was published and believe they are the ones that might have a relationship with the poem, so to me TFTW is not needed.” So hear me all and listen good”, now this is where many hints come from, Forrest’s himself in interviews, scrapbooks, book signings and any chance his has chance to remark to someone.
        So one can just research HOD and get most of this info.
        Zap, thanks for the copies info on sales it says a lot.
        Good luck in your search,

        • “knowlege”, oops misspelled,

          I wonder why he misspelled this word.
          What the heck did he do with the -d?

          • One of the thoughts comes to mind. Maybe he’s trying to prove a point that misspelling a word doesn’t affect it’s definition. We still know what it means.

          • “I prayed for D’s in all of my classes, but no one ever listened.
            So I decided to just do things my own way and to heck with what people thought.”
            Pg 26

            So he removed the D from knowledge and prayed for them and didn’t get them.

            The one great thing about that chapter “The greater part of knowledge is knowing those things not worthy of knowing”
            Learning curve at it’s best.

      • ZAP,

        Many thanks for the numbers regarding TTOTC, as of May 2017 22.000 copies.

        Very impressive

        Good luck guy’s in your search for 2018.

        Stay safe and don’t take unnecessary risks, it’s not worth it.

        Ronnie the Scot

  60. What I believe is important about Forrest’s statement,

    “I will try Adell. Read the blogs for entertainment, and the poem like you were going to put an X on a map. Beyond that I am not compelled to reiterate. Hunt prepared and go safely. Good luck. F”

    It’s not the, “put an X on a map.” part that’s important. The important part is to, “Read _ the poem like you were…”

    • Let me rephrase that, “Read _ the poem like you were going to…” It’s in the reading not the “X.” If that makes sense.

    • Good point Chris. It is easy to focus on the X in that statement and not put more emphasis on the beginning. Similar to the below portion of PIBTHOB.

  61. Aaron,
    I have lines, symbols, markers, ect., and I have label them to prevent quick access when reviewing my solves. The way to measure or put lines on GE is to click in the “ruler icon” then choose either straight line or path and your preferred increments (feet, yards, miles). Your pointer then becomes a small square which you place on your starting point and drag to your ending point. Once this is accomplished you can either name and save or erase it if you are not satisfied. As I recall, Forest said to connect the lines. So, my interpretation was to narrow the search area using, yes the poem, but the other hints that have slowly been released over time as well. This is where it is not type of scenario, or the good old process of elimination.
    I hope this helps Aaron….good luck!
    I will be in west Yellowstone in June; can’t wait!

    • GE pro (now free) lets you do circles with the ruler icon. You can transfer lines, circles and paths to a GPS.

    • Thanks Dean, I do need to utilize the GE tools more and especially on the Pro version as welderon suggested.

      I’ll be in West YS the first week of July and stoked about that.

      Good luck to you too!


      • Very Cool, and thanks to Welderon! I guess I’ve been using GE so long, I haven’t considered an Upgrade. I’ll give Pro a look. I just hope I can transferred all of my crap over if I do switch. Or just have two maps, duh, may be easier………lol

        • I think when I got GE Pro all my saved places and such were there, which could mean Covert has a good point. I guess I’ll have to get to my spot before the Google people this spring.

    • Dean and others – while Google Earth is an application that you can save your spot / lines / paths / etc, it’s also an app supported by some of the brightest software engineers out there. What if one of those folks is going through all of the “saved” locations (in the app) right now and gathering up your good solves?

      Something to think about….

      • No wonder Fenn has a gut feeling the treasure will be found this summer. Between drawing your personal treasure maps on GE and hundreds of people sending FF their solves, it wouldn’t be a surprise. Probably Putin himself will put-in below the home of Brown!

          • Im in too deep to say, I’m afraid. But I’m partial to an 8×4 topo myself. Old school…kinda like Lanier.

          • Straw…as you know, I’m a Snowmad in winter…my thrill is in the chase of white gold, big bowls, steep chutes and soft powder. It’s no secret that Davey’s Hole is my favorite. Wouldn’t want to cross my tips but no one got my Aspen hint except you!!

        • Sandy,
          I predict it will be found even sooner! The end is ever drawing nigh!! lol
          And, I really enjoy drawing my solves on GE, and then I can go back and add to them, post them on social media sites, ect., ect., ect., blah, blah, blah…..
          Every day is a party, every meal is a feast and the fun Never Ends!
          Geesh, I just can’t wait to see what happens next…..you know what I’m saying. Best of luck to ya!

          • You may be correct, Dean. But, Forrest says (paraphrasing) that the treasure can be found in any weather, but he didn’t say it could be found in any season. So until the long tailed Errmine molts its winter coat, black diamondswill remain this girl’s best friend.

          • Sandy,
            Ha! Wouldn’t “any” weather apply to all seasons. I personally will be there in June, until then, blaze a trail black diamond girl.
            Remember, you can’t buy happiness but you can buy a lift pass! smiles

          • Dean, I think the distinction between weather and seasons, for searchers, is in our ability to easily access areas that may be seasonally closed. After the “other” hunting season ends, usually in late November / early December, many FS roads are closed until they melt/dry out in spring or early summer. They don’t open until the FS determines that the mud has dried, hint hint. The road closures are necessary to protect wintering wildlife, reduce maintenance costs, and keep FF treasure searchers from getting stranded LOL. Also, depending on your search area, many NPS roads (YNP, RMNP, GNP are prime examples) close to standard vehicular travel in the seasons of late Autumn, Winter, and late Spring. Not that any searchers think the treasure in is YNP…haha. I think FF has hinted to weather vs seasons several times. All just my thoughts on the matter; I have done BOTG searches or serious recon in every month of the year, and I’m definitely an “all weather” searcher! Good luck to you and perhaps we will meet at West Yellowstone in June. You are right, happiness is a ski pass and warm feet by a pinyon fire.

  62. If you haven’t already watched it, Benet Davetian’s analisis of Mr. Fenn, is well worth seeing, watch it all the way through. It’s on the Old Sata Fe resource page.

  63. recently went on a trip to NM to test my solve. Didn’t find the chest obviously, my partner aka wife wasn’t very enthusiastic about searching a random creek for the whole trip so I didn’t get to search as much as I would have liked. I live 1600 miles away so I probably wont return there anytime soon so I wanted to share some of my ideas that led me to my area. I want to put together a more detailed solve but here is my basic one.

    WWWH I thought was Chili, NM. what led me there was the idea that normal human body temp is 37°C and relating that to latitude means search below 37°N. Chili NM is a little above 36°N so it works. the Rio Ojo Caliente merges with the Rio Chama there, it’s a Homophone for “chilly” as well.

    in close proximity is a location marked as canones which is south of cañones. I took this to be “the canyon down” in addition to being a command to zoom into the map based on the latitude given by WWWH.

    the area is mostly comprised of the Abiquiu Land Grant. northwest of the is the Rio Puerco. according to wiktionary far is a noun and is an old term for a pig. so “Not far, but too far to walk” means not in the direction of the Rio Puerco.

    “Put in below the home of Brown.”
    The Rio Oso is in this area. which translates to Bruin which is the name of a bear in old folktales and is derived from the dutch word for brown. just north of Oso canyon which the Rio Oso runs through is a hill named Loma Parda. which translates to “brown hill” Directly to the south is Gallinas creek which leads to the next clue.

    “from there its no place for the meek”
    so dont go in the direction of gallinas creek. arroyo animas which translates to “spirited creek” spirited is an antonym of meek, is directly north so go that way.

    The end is ever drawing nigh
    this refers to the agua caliente springhead that runs into abiquiu creek as well as the power lines that are in the area.

    there’ll be no paddle up your creek
    you’ll be traveling down in elevation

    just heavy loads and water high
    refer to the power lines overhead. heavy electrical loads and high current. the water is high because the “current” is flowing above you.

    the blaze I couldn’t figure out. I had some ideas but couldn’t test them out or look for them. I think the power lines are part of the blaze. I just didn’t put it together right(assuming I was right to begin with) the reason I think the power lines are the blaze are due to the fact that forrest’s horse in TTOTTC was named lightning and it had a blaze on its face. the word wise is thrown around in that chapter several times so maybe there’s a connection.

    anyway I thought it was a good solve. I still think the chest could be in that area. It’s too far away for me to explore so if someone who lives closer thinks my solve has some merit I think it could be worth checking out. If you find it there send me a few gold eagles and we’ll be square.

    • Alex,
      Congratulations on following through on your theories and getting out there…I tell my children there is wisdom in following our ideas and feelings because they can fine tune us to reality. When the tuning is mature and they work in concert together, what appears to be a miracle, happens…

      I enjoyed your solve however if anyone is to follow up on your solve or any of its ideas – I would offer this;

      Each clue should be identifiable or tied to a geographical feature and ones that will endure the test of time, at least a 1000 years out…

      So in your solve the biggest difficulty seems to be the use of power lines. I don’t believe they meet the above test.



    • Thanks for your post Alex – Sounds like you had a nice trip, sorry you could not do as much searching as you would have liked. Nice write-up – Good thinkin’ JDA

  64. I have been considering various possible “scenarios” relating to what
    the “successful searcher” may physically find.

    There has been some discussion regarding whether the gold coins, nuggets, etc. are physically in the TC as purported. If instead, there
    is some “token” (such as an I.O.U.) to be brought to FF in exchange
    for the valuable gold, it would appear to be too risky for the finder,
    because FF may not be alive at the time the TC is found.

    The finder should be able to, without jumping through a lot of complicated/difficult hoops, enjoy physical possession of the gold.

    But I keep thinking about the special item that (supposedly) is in the
    TC . . . that FF didn’t want to talk about. I like to think that this item
    would be valuable to the finder — even if only sentimentally.

    [Well], it probably isn’t worth worrying about prior to the finding of the
    TC. That bridge will be crossed in due time, by someone.

    The above is my opinion. I don’t know whether y’all’s opinion meshes
    [well] with mine.

    • “There are no notes to be found or safety deposit boxes to be searched. The clues can lead you to the treasure, and it will be there waiting when you arrive.”

  65. Hey Gang,

    There is at least one Forrest comment out there, which I find it difficult to reconcile with the “known” facts:

    “I could have written the poem before I hid the treasure chest, but I didn’t.”
    He said it took him 15 years to write the poem, and changed it many times. He felt like he was an architect writing the poem and each word is deliberate.

    How are both these possible unless the Chest was hidden many years prior to 2010?

    Does anyone have more insight into this dichotomy?



    • Sure, GCG: he kept altering the poem right up until he hid the treasure chest, and put the finishing touches on it after doing so. My posted theory for Forrest encoding within the poem the date he hid the treasure is just one example of why he might not have been able to put the poem in its final form until after the deed was done. I would image there are other similar scenarios that required poem adjustment post-secretion.

      • Zap,
        I get that — I’m just being particular about the language and have always sort of relinquished myself to what you are saying but the words: “the poem”
        implies the whole poem not just parts or final tweaks …

        Know what I mean? It just bothers me. Not that it really matters but like I said before, inconsistencies deserve examination and understanding.


        PS I mean Doug Preston says he read an earlier version of the poem so perhaps Forrest sees the final version as “the poem.”

        • To me it means he could have written and tweaked the poem before hiding the chest. Yeah he took 15 years to do so but indecision is the key to flexibility. Doubtful that he was working on the poem every day for 15 years.

    • GCG
      “I could have written the poem before I hid the treasure chest, but I didn’t.”
      Not to confuse the issue but Forrest is in conflict with himself on this one.
      Forrest Fenn’s Treasure Chest
      Q. When you wrote the poem, did you start with the first clue or the ninth?
      A. ” I knew all along where I wanted to hide the treasure so I didn’t need a map or any information to write the poem. Everything was in my head. It took me a while to get the wording exactly how I wanted it. Counting the clues and hiding the chest came later. It is not likely that anyone will find it without following the clues, at least in their mind.”
      I believe this quote is Dec 2017 ??????

      So, go figure!


    • GCG, he said it took him 15 years. There is downtime in between. Don’t look at it like he started in 1988, and 15 years later. Started in 1988, working on the poem for 15 years could take him 20+ years. There are times when he was not working on the poem, you cannot put that time into the time spent working on the poem.
      If something takes two days to write, then you are writing for two days. If I took breaks, went shopping, went to the beach, etc… then after two days, I wouldn’t be done writing. It’s like a lawyer charging by the hour. They charge when they are working on your case. Working 48 hours would be just that, not two days total.
      People see that 15 years comment and think it just does not mesh, must be earlier. Yes, if Fenn only worked on the poem and that is all for 15 years, but we know that cannot be so. Peggy would kill him.
      He went on vacations, did daily things, whatever, so taking 15 years on the poem, could be done in 2010, or a little sooner, but definitely not 2003. Even breaks for eating, bathing, (if f bathes), family, etc… would put you at a later date.
      So, 22 years could have passed by the time he put in 15 for the poem.
      If you want to get a better idea: 1988 December, cancer removed. 20% chance to live 3 years is 9 months for each 20%. 100%=0, 80%=9 months, 60%=18 months, 40%=27 months, 20%=36 months, 0%=45 months.
      Laying in his bed one night when his fate hit rock bottom, (or 0%) he got an idea. So, December 1988 plus 45 months= September 1992 when he got idea for the chase. Hid the chest in Summer of 2010. (IMO). So basically, he spent 3 years living and 15 years writing the poem. 🙂 Give or take a couple.

    • GCG, because some of the verbs in the poem will not work as intended 🙂 What is your best guess?

    • He said (ahead of Fennboree last year):

      “To answer some questions and save others from being asked, I did follow the clues in the poem when I hid the treasure chest, although I hid it before the poem was complete. (Completed?) f” MW 6/5/2107

      So, like others suggested, this clears up any confusion caused by the statement that he “could have written the poem before I hid the treasure chest, but I didn’t.”

      But it doesn’t really clear things up, does it?

      It doesn’t explain why he said it at all. Remember, this was a statement made in the list of weekly words given out over the course of a year, a list full of other cryptic word choices and puzzles meant to challenge you. If it has a mundane answer, why include it there?

      A far more interesting possibility, I feel, that does actually clear things up, and does actually fit nicely as an answer to a Weekly Words puzzle, is this:

      He could have written the poem *in the book* before he hid the treasure chest *in the book*… but didn’t. In other words, he hid the treasure chest in the pages before the poem appears in the Thrill of the Chase.

      Rather obvious when put this way, isn’t it?

      There’s no contradiction with the statement that it took him 15 years to write the poem because it’s not about how long it took. It’s about where it’s written. It’s not chronology. It’s order of appearance.

      Maybe? Maybe not?

      It certainly solves the apparent conflict, and offers a fun way to look at the statement he made. Think about it.

      • Jerremy;

        Forrest is the word-meister. Look at what he said – ““To answer some questions and save others from being asked, I did follow the clues in the poem when I hid the treasure chest, although I hid it before the poem was complete. (Completed?) f” MW 6/5/2107

        “I did follow the clues in the poem when I hid the treasure chest….” For those of us that believe that the clues are found in Stanza’s 2,3 and 4 – He could have “Followed the clues in the poem etc.” and not have finished stanza’s 5,6 and 1. So, let’s give him stanza #1 – So, he had four stanza’s complete, (1 – 4) working on the last two “hint” stanza’s – hides the treasure (following the clues), goes home and finishes the final two hint stanza’s – seems logical to me. JMO – JDA

    • I think the way we reconcile his statements about writing the poem and completing the poem after the treasure was hidden is that in some way he created a blaze or marker for the tc after he hid it. Earlier drafts mentioned leaving his bones and taking the chest, my thought is that once he decided to hide it without leaving himself there the concept of the blaze was added, and he couldnt do that until he was there hiding the chest. Subsequently, he couldn’t finish the poem until after. It fits with his comment about the blaze not being visible from Google earth too. Just IMO.

        • Bird’s eye view, street view, or both?

          The blaze is something that he marked, in my opinion.

          • Satellite view. Not something that FF
            marked (remember that it needs to be
            durable?). But it is not far from a bit of
            vandalism that was intended to look
            like the blaze. Shame on the culprit!
            All IMO.

          • tighterfocus,

            Roger, and thanks. I agree with you with regard to durability. My blaze is a geographic feature and it is quite identifiable via Google Earth.

            In support of our assertion the blaze is viewable in GE, I would point out to readers of this forum that FF did not say GE cannot help with the blaze.

            What he said was “Google Earth cannot help with the last clue.”

          • That would mean that you think the last clue is not the blaze. What do you suspect it is if not?

          • Aaron,

            The last clue is very likely:
            Look quickly down, your quest to cease,

            Would you agree the quest doesn’t cease until you’ve followed the instruction to look quickly down?

            Couple of relevant Fenn quotes:

            FF: “There is not a picture of the treasure chest on Google Earth. Was that your question?
            Questioner: Yeah. I think that will suffice.
            FF: “Because Google Earth doesn’t go down far enough.” (Moby Dickens Bookshop 11/2/13).

            Interviewer: How much progress can be made by someone just thinking and searching the Internet from home? (Another way of saying this: How many clues can only be decoded in situ?)

            “All of them, in theory, but not likely in practice. A searcher must go to the site to find the treasure.”


          • Thanks, just curious. I actually think that tarry scant or quickly down is the last clue depending on one earlier line that I am not sure is a clue or not.

            Also, if marvel gaze is of the view then you would surely be able to see that on GE. Whatever marvel gaze is I am firmly believe it has nothing to do with gravel, IMO. 🙂

  66. I see one of the definitions of write is … to fill out or complete.
    Complete might be the keyword here. Or maybe it is writ ten clues and not nine.O

    • Michael, I believe that is a reference from Borders bookstore and borderline bidies being perceived as hints from TTOTC.

    • Michael- the treasure crosses many boundaries, i think. but the chest is near a railing. i think that too.

  67. “Not far but too far to walk” It doesn’t give us an “actual distance” and it doesn’t even tell us anything “specific”. So my guess is that the actual meaning is something other than what the words seem to say. JMO

    • I agree James.
      Don’t guess. Read his 2nd memoir “too far to walk” and it could help with the clues just like TTOTC.
      It blows my mind that he wrote another book titled with a line in the poem.

    • A polite-like email from Kristie, who admits to being a desk person, prompts me to say that if you are walking long distances in search of the treasure, you’re walking too far. F

      Interpret as you will…..

      • Nice one, tighterfocus. I can think of an important ATF hint from Forrest that is specifically related to your point. I won’t broaden the clues and hints he has written about by pointing them out here, but perhaps you know the one I mean.

    • Hello James, Arrrrgh matey’s, why not just tell the lad!!
      About ten miles, from what I recall, is “too far too walk.”
      In another instance, the distance was less than a few miles. Which seemed to be more directed to the walking/hiding particular. The ten mile reference, I understood to mean, for Forest “now” at his age, is just “too far to walk.” Any and all comments are welcome, regardless of how you may feel at the reading of this. Gee, I hope this doesn’t ruffle any feathers. ; ) What am I saying, of coarse it will……Just trying to help a brother out!
      Good luck to ya James!

    • Nice. I’ve seen The Shootist a few times, but did not remember that line.

      Speaking of movies. It’s worth giving “A River Runs Through It” a fresh watch, or read the book upon which it’s based by Norman McClean. I’ll betcha Fenn has done one or the other, or both.

      I can’t imagine that story not resonating powerfully with him. So many parallels with his own salad days.

      • That mention of “salad” is a good one. Isn’t it good
        to have an understanding audience?

        All my opinion, don’cha know.

      • And “The Duke” is also the official football of the NFL. (Cross-reference to Forrest’s Rawlings Pro 5 lace-up.) And now for something completely different: “Tonight’s the night I shall be talking about of flu the subject of word association football. This is a technique out a living much used in the practice makes perfect of psychoanalysister and brother and one that has occupied piper the majority rule of my attention squad by the right number one two three four the last five years to the memory. …”

  68. Oh for crying out loud would someone just find the darned thing? For the love of Pete please. If you know where it is go get it would you? What in blue blazes are you waiting for? Geez.

  69. “Oh for-ah crying outta loud-ah. The Treasure, she is-a waiting for-ah you. Why you no go and get it uh? For-ah the love of Pedro please..please. What in-ah blue blazes are-ah you waiting for uh? Geez-ah Louise-ah”
    —Pope Francis

    • I like you Sparrow.

      Can you do it in the voice of Floyd the Barber from Andy Griffith? No pressure; I wouldn’t be able to pull it off.

  70. “I ain’t never seen ’em, but my common sense tells me the Andes is foothills and the Alps is for children to climb. Keep good care of your hair. “These here is God’s finest sculpturins and there ain’t no laws for the brave ones. And there ain’t no asylums for the crazy ones. And there ain’t no churches excepting for this right here. And there ain’t no priests excepting the birds. By God I are a mountain man and I’ll live until an arrow or a bullet finds me and then I’ll leave my bones right here on this great map of the magnificent…[rides into silence]”

    -Del Gue
    from Jeremiah Johnson

    • Jeremiah Johnson, one of my favorite movies along with A River Runs Through It. I don’t even know how many times I’ve seen both movies.

  71. Two people taught me to love the Rocky Mountains…first was John Denver, then Robert Redford…and now I am at the feet of another teacher, listening and learning.

  72. BREAKING NEWS: Since 2010 people have been suffering with a rare syndrome called TCitis. The symptoms are, tingling feet, restless legs, tired rear ends, churning stomachs, tired eyes, minds that are constantly churning and habitual consumption of coffee.

    The creator of the syndrome, said it escaped from his laboratory and spread wildly since sometime in 2010 has infected well over 250 K people. The creator said there may be a breakthrough by another researcher in 2018.

    Stay tuned for further updates in the coming months for a possible cure.

    • lol I enjoyed this. I can imagine lots of people are hoping for the cure from TCitis. It is a drain on the mind at times.

    • NEWS continued, researchers noted that driving to the Rocky Mountains has temporarily relieved symptoms by hiking and taking the scenery with fresh air. Many researcher feel the answer to a cure of TCitis is most definitely is in the Rocky Mountains.

      • Oh that’s good. The remedy is so soothing for the soul. I can’t get enough of it.

      • Let’s see if I’ve got this right . . .
        “is most definitely is” ? I guess it all depends on
        what the definition of “is” is.

        I probably shouldn’t be “quoting” someone I don’t
        have much respect fore. But he does provide some entertainment as a movie reviewer on the radio, while I have breakfast at Burger King.

        The above is my opinion.

    • Touche’ CharlieM. lol Good one! I like the way you think. The remedy is oh so awesome! IMHO

  73. “There comes a time in every rightly-constructed boy’s life when he has a raging desire to go somewhere and dig for hidden treasure.”
    H. Kissinger

    • D. Crockett, thank you, that was fun! The review written by wiken43 was great, made me wish I was at that place right now. The words were so heartfelt that it really must be a special spot, especially for stargazing.

      • Jeannie,

        You’re very welcome. It is special, maybe even
        sacred. I found the nugget of info on the Cache
        Creek reverse fault very interesting, also.


    • Yes, was such a lovely spot. Still lovely, but tour groups (gasp) go there now…

  74. FYI:
    If you’ve been on the blog for the past few months you’ve witnessed a depressing slowdown in performance resulting in pages loading slower and slower and error messages becoming more and more common. We’ve tried a few things on our own which brought a temporary, smattering of relief.

    So this week the blog’s poor performance finally rubbed the wrong searcher the wrong way resulting in his undertaking a thorough cleaning and sweeping of the blog. What he accomplished here is a freaking miracle to me.

    Pages now load like lightning. No more database errors and we have some new tools to keep it running this way.

    So…thanks for your patience and say thanks to Chris who’s work has resulted in a giant increase in blog performance…

    • Wow, it’s super fast now! Like a flash of light! Thank you Chris!!! 🙂 Now I won’t have to get up in the middle of the night anymore to read the Blog! 🙂

    • Thanks Chris. If I find the Treasure Chest, I’ll give you a piece of gold.

    • Thanks Chris, ya saved me a bundle….thought I needed a new machine!!

      (dal, hope ya put him on the payroll??) 🙂

      • Hi Loco,
        I read a post about a lost Forrest interview?
        I’m sorry I don’t remember the name, but he said something about the Blaze being the last clue. He mentioned you!

    • The increased blog speed is great! Thanks Chris!

      The one thing I noticed that changed that’s a bit of an issue is that the “Name” and “Email” don’t auto-populate like they did before when going to post. Some times they do but many times not. Before, they always auto-populated.

      But hey – the blog speed increase is great so not complaining.

      • I’m glad you spoke of this, Covert One. I thought it was my computer that was doing this.

      • CO-
        Thanks for the tip. I will pass this on to Chris. I know there is more work he plans to do next week but that stage requires shutting down the blog for a few hours. Maybe that repair work will cure the commenting issue..

          • I don’t recall if it was with the first comment but before the name and email stayed even if my computer shut down. Now, it seems I’ve had to type it in 4 or 5 times since the speed on the blog has improved.

            I’m on my phone right now and it auto populated without having to retype but on the computer it’s an issue.

          • Chris – it auto populated this time but let’s see how things go from here.

          • Chris – this time it didn’t auto populate. It seems the longer you go between posts, the more it becomes an issue.

          • Okay, thanks for letting me know. I’m going to make some more changes to the settings and see if they help. It might be a few days to fully test it out.

    • Thanks Dal! Glad I could help.

      I already took note of the comments form name and email not filling in, but if there’s any other issues, please let me know.

      • Hi Chris,

        Thank you for your efforts. We all appreciate it very much. I’ve noticed that when using the reply button embedded in the notification emails that the name and email fields do not auto-populate either.

        And if there’s anything in your bags of tricks to get a 68 year old to run faster (in more ways than one) that would be IMMENSELY helpful too.


  75. Anyone ever zoom in on Lewis Lake near Lake Yellowstone? My gut says structure and way too large to be TC.
    I have seen box shaped objects in various other locations, not just in water. Sometimes it is difficult to simply discount them, especially when they appear along the dusty old trail of zee poem! Yes, I know what Forest has said, however, things do change with technology.
    Any thoughts?
    Thanks, dean

    • Yeah — here are some thoughts:

      1. Y’all are trying too hard to keep the flow of hints at
      “gusher” setting.

      2. It’s against the rules of this blog to post using more
      than one username.

      3. Please relax. The TC is findable without this
      continuing gusher of hints.

      4. Y’all could be more discreet — or at least more
      delicate while dispensing the gusher. If y’all wanted
      us to read the blogs for entertainment, y’all could
      post stuff that is more entertaining by virtue of being
      more challenging to recognize as hints. After all,
      it’s y’all’s game and y’all’s ball, which does speak to
      y’all’s abilities. Let’s see some more cleverness and
      more subtlety, if y’all are up for it.

      The above is part of my opinion.

  76. Dal your Blog is awesome!
    Isn’t it great one of your regulars, jumped in and helped.
    Great community here.

    Thanks Chris, way to use your talents for good.

  77. I have a queston for the blogger Tighter Focus. Did you take this moniker before or after Forrest made his statement about “a word that is key?” Just curious.

  78. Heavens to mergatroid! It loads like a dream, even for me in my forest!
    Thanks Chris and thank you Mr. Dal!

  79. This page is now closed to new comments. To continue the discussion please go to the latest Odds n Ends page.

Comments are closed.