Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Forty Eight

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Thanks…

 

dal…

656 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Forty Eight

  1. Looking forward to snow melt and another opportunity to get out there and explore.
    Thanks Forrest and Dal for all that you do.

  2. Does anyone use the boiling river for their WWWH? if you do, what is ur no paddle up your creek! We’ Going to search that area this year for our first time putting BOTG! Also, does anyone think red tea… black tea…. green tea has any meaning behind it in the tea with Olga story?

    • Why I like the boiling river as a wwwh is that it often causes a traffic jam on your way in the park. I don’t feel like it stands alone in that, however…. the best wwwh, I expect, will be singular and, well, the best interpretation in the whole of the search area.

    • You should go with it anyway! The canyon down quickly brings you to the Yellowstone river. Upstream a bit is Bear Creek. Up Bear Creek stands an old mining cabin that Joe Brown made good at. You can hike down from Eagle Creek campground which is a great place to car camp right outside the park. Late summer is best as the creeks and rivers run high through June!

      • Do you think the red tea black tea and green tea is symbolic to anything in the tea with Olga story?

        • Its what you think is what matters. If you take a survey it could be 50/50 that is does/doesnt.

          I believe the only possibility is to create scenarios for both and work them until you dont have anything left. Asking others is just the blind leading the blind.

          • I think every story Mr Fenn has told us, connects in some part however small, to the location. The trick is figuring out what the connection is in each one. The tea does play a small role from my research and viewpoint and if you figure that role out, it will help you with the other clues, although it in and of itself isn’t an answer. Happy Hunting!

        • The red tea might represent Olga getting her way (red tees are for the ladies)

          The black tea might represent Forrest getting his way (black tees are for champions)

          The green tea might represent Olga’s father (green tees are for seniors)

          • I’m new to this game, maybe he was referring to tee as in golf or maybe he is just teasing us with this chapter.

        • Red green black (Philmont) (near dam) and (near red river) = are real mountains near Eagles Nest NM
          Search typos

          and same in CO also

          (But colors are not a major clue, imho.
          Just actual true story by Fenn about tea most likely.)

          • Copperhead

            That’s want I say but no one wants to hear it.

            It’s a factual story and the important part is how Fenn came to own that portion of the property.

            He thinks he is showing us how to negotiate through friendship.

            Lugnutz

    • Here’s something to think about when it comes to the tea statements:
      red tea
      black tea
      green tea
      tea and oreo’s (black and white)
      tea and a sweet

      Now what has all of these types: red, black, green, black and white, and sweet?

      Fred Y

      • Well what, Fred? Tell us.

        What we call black tea, the Chinese call red tea… so we’ve got only two teas… red/black and green. The NM state question is “Red or Green? “…. I’m guessing that ‘one mans tea is another mans peppers’. As for black & white… a metaphor for the written word…or in this context, perhaps opposites… China/USA, life/death, good/bad, etc.

        • Okay I will tell you my thoughts because you are way off from my thinking. They are all types of peas. Red peas, Green peas, Black peas, Sweet peas, and the black and white peas would be black eyed peas which are black and white. Put that together with tea, and you have either TeePee’s which would connect well with the picture on the wall on Forrest web site, or what I like even better TP as in toilet paper.

          Fred Y.

          • That’s nice Fred… TeaPeas, but I suspect its only an interesting association or coincidence. I never heard of red peas myself, I think some beans might be called peas in some cultures (Louisiana, Caribbean ??) But here is what I do think… a clue-hider with a 1000 year hunt on his mind and a million dollar TC wouldn’t hide his clue in the obvious contexts like 3 named colors. If there is a hint in OLGA, I think its more likely in a different topic… like the milage or the bathtub or the bubble gum. But that’s just my guess. Good Luck… and I do like TeaPeas for TeePees.

          • I believe that FF likely added some odd details like different color teas throughout the book purposefully. Some of these odd details may actually contain hints but so the searcher wouldn’t easily which ones they are just because it sounds odd he had to add a number of them. I’m not saying the tea’s are not a hint but it is hard to know for sure unless it helps someone find the treasure.

          • Personally it seems the tea isnt anything and the real takeaway is how Fenn interpreted her wish for her ashes to be spread and the searcher jas to do the same with Fenn and his clues.

          • On the dust cover of TTOTC: “Unlock the clues that are scattered among these pages and you can go home with a bronze chest that is so full of gold and precious jewelry that it’s almost too heavy for one person to carry.”
            And page 133: “There are also other subtle clues sprinkled in the stories.”

          • Lou Lee… What does “intentionally placed” really mean, especially in a book that “wrote itself”? Every word that survives editing is intentionally placed. And hopefully all words fit their context naturally.

            I think Fenn’s comment “NOT intentionally placed” was to inform the inevitable coder-hunters that there were no codes or ciphers in the Chase. Messages written in code depend on precise placement, on the counting of spaces or characters. Code writing is hyper-intentional writing. But he code-hunters didn’t get it, they didn’t understand Fenn’s hint, so he helped them again with his later announcement about codes, cyphers, foot-pounds, etc.

            But thats my interpretation… what is yours?

          • F said the subtle hints were “not deliberately placed to aid the seeker”. Maybe they were deliberately placed, but not necessarily to aid the seeker. IMO, the poem is what will aid the seeker. Once the poem has been fully understood, the hints will reveal themselves as confirmation of the solution.

          • That sounds right JBL. The hints are more confirmation for the finder than helping the seeker IMO.

    • I have a different theory regarding the chapter Tea with Olga. For the longest time, I was looking at the colors and couldn’t figure anything out. Then after reading the posts here recently, I googled Olga Tea and came upon a website that has Olga Tea. The brand is Adagio. The official name of that tea is Grand Duchess Olga tea. I think Zap would like that information. Recently, someone had posted something about a John Wayne hint (may have been a mis-quote from F) I mentioned that John Wayne was also known as “The Duke”. It may not be anything, but it’s where the hints lead me. – Royalty.

      • Kira,

        To answer your question above; the TP is a conformation that my first clue is correct. The Leon Bridge scrapbook is also conformation of this clue. Try looking up river about six miles from the bridge and see what you find. IMO of course.
        Fred Y.

        • Hi Fred Y.: the only thing I see 6 miles up river from the Leon Bridge is Belton Lake (the southern end of the lake is less than 4 miles up river from the Leon Bridge).

      • Chance,

        I too like the golf connection as well, but have not been able to take it full circle.
        Has anyone else ever made a golf connection to the Sweet Fragrance scrapbook?

        • Fred Y,
          You know whats weird? is that one of his scrapbooks he mentions golf and the PGA and Sam Snead. We never knew he like golf until scrapbook 180.
          I’ll bet he got his hole in one. Tea it up with a he cup.

    • hey Vikes, yes i did and then the canyon down to rescue creek. i found a geocache there relating to this treasure hunt.

      really!

    • It’s been a great day here Eaglesabound…. I hope yours was too…. see ya my friend

  3. I’m wondering how much time is taken out of daily lives to work on finding the treasure. Is the time spent,

    a. one or two hours a week
    b. an hour or two every day of free time
    c. every day at work and after work
    d. an obsession spending hours every day.

    Time spent doesn’t necessarily mean at a computer all of the time, but all other aspects in solving the location of the treasure.

    For me it gradually became an obsession. Of course I didn’t let the hunt interfere with family, friends or my responsibilities. I would go to bed thinking, loosing about an hour or two of sleep. You won’t believe how many solutions I came up with, tossed them and started over. I now have a solve and resting well.

    Oddly I haven’t given much thought about the dollar or historical value and only focused on where the treasure is. It is the challenge all by it’s self, I’ll worry about the pay day later which I hope will be fun.

    Let’s get er done. 🙂

    • CharlieM,

      I think I found out about the chase in 2014. I am a 911 dispatcher and work night shift. Back then I told a few of my coworkers and we would hash out ideas all night long. This went on for a year.

      One of them ended up leaving so that left 2 of us. We would research between calls. Eventually the novelty of it wore off and we slacked off for a while. Occasionally we would revisit it and drum up new ideas. It seems that he has lost interest but still allows me to bounce ideas off of him.

      Oddly enough, some of my best ideas come to me after a long shift and I’m laying in bed thinking. I tend to forget what my train of thought was by the time I woke up so I started sending myself text messages to remind myself later that day.

      At this point i only spend an hour or so per week committed to research but that may be because I think I have a solid solve and am patiently waiting for warmer weather.

      I will say this though, the poem is never far from my thoughts.

      TimM

    • Hi CharlieM,

      Thanks for the great post. It made me realize I’m not that odd because I was looking for an All of the Above selection. It’s pretty much all the time I’d say.

      My focus lately has been on trying to centralize all my ideas into one, but it seems like when I think I’m moving forward I end up going way more than several steps back. Progress is coming soon I’m hoping. Things started to come together last night, The message is still not clear as I know the real work starts now. It’s so exciting for my family, you would just not believe.

      I’ll probably work on this goal until next Sunday (my next day off? I never know being one that works on call and my shift varies from day to day as well) or so.

      Well, as I already mentioned, I’m new here, so I won’t blow on my trumpet at all. One thing I’ve learned at work is that when you are the new kid it’s best to be quiet and listen.

      I did recently read that Mr. Fenn was interested in getting a bracelet back from the TC. I can’t imagine anyone not abiding with that request.

      Well, i have to go now. It’s a work day, but as you say above at the top of this post I will look around your site as time allows.

      Thank you.

      B

      • B – you mentioned: “I did recently read that Mr. Fenn was interested in getting a bracelet back from the TC. I can’t imagine anyone not abiding with that request.”

        There are those who have said they would not return the bracelet.

        Personally, I would return it – if it has some sentimental value to FF, it would be the right thing to do.

        For those who say they would not return it, it seems they are blinded by the value of the treasure… IMO

    • I learned of the Chase about 4 years ago, but never spent much time before February of this year on it. It was then that the fever hit me. I am at an advantage as I am not able to work outside of the home for health reasons, and my youngest is in school all day. I’ve been schooling myself while my son is at school researching and reading “important literature”. I’ve had several erroneous starts, but think I finally have a grasp of the blueprint and the location. Waiting for the snow to melt now. About the only thing I can offer is that IMO, you will know when you have the correct HOB because upon understanding it, most people will probably say “Oh Forrest!” and shake their head and giggle. It’s pretty clever.

      • Agreed KK, PIBTHOB is the part of the poem that requires the largest amount imagination to solve IMO.

        Waiting and looking forward to the snow melt too!

        • Well stated Aaron! Seems our thoughts may be in the same context. I hope you hunt goes well as soon as the snow melts!

    • B.
      I too have work and family responsibilities so all of that is always taken care of first.
      The cool thing is I have a 35 minute drive to work and back again in the evening. That drive is some great thinking time.
      Clearly Clueless
      #ThrillOfTheChaseOnTheBrain

  4. Hey Everyone! Just a few notes. I just added a SSL Cert to the site so you’ll notice that nice looking green lock bar in your url bar. I fixed some layout issues on mobile devices and added a back to the top button that should make it a lot easy to scroll back to the top of the page.

    Lastly, we’re going to be upgrading the database that powers the site this week at night to improve the performance of the site. It shouldn’t take more than an hour or so, but if the site is down that’s why.

    • That’s a great rendition of “home of Brown”. Not too many guitarists can play it that well. You sure that’s not Forrest?

    • With just a quick glance, it did look like Mr. Fenn from a distance. The guitarist in the video is really good.

  5. Thank you for hosting the blog Dal. And even though I can’t search this Spring, I’m looking forward to the warmer and dryer (hopefully) weather.

    Good luck all.

    Pinatubocharlie

  6. The Chase can take up many hours a week if I’m inspired. At such times, I do fulfill all familial and professional responsibilities as usual but with an I.V. drip of the blackest coffee. If I make progress in the Chase, then it’s a “good tired.” Last night was a rather late one, so tonight will have to be early to bed; but that’s OK because I can let my subconscious mind try to unravel more knots, which sometimes happens.

    I guess I’m the same way. I never fantasize about the monetary value of the chest other than to use $20k to replace the drafty old windows in this house. Our boy’s never been to Disney World, so I guess that would be in order, too. So yeah, it must be the challenge that attracts me. It’s purely mind vs. mind, and given enough time, I like my odds.

  7. I’m really having a lot of trouble posting for some reason. I post, and then the post doesn’t show up, and my name also doesn’t show up for recent posts. I am filling in all the info so not sure what’s up? Anyone else having problems?

    • After your first comment does your name fill back in? It should stay in that device for 2 weeks. We did just switch HTTPS, so it would have cleared the set cookie from before that.

  8. In 5 years I would guess about 3500 hours reading, looking at maps, playing with ideas, planning searches. Probably more time that’s just idle thinking time.

    And then the time for the trips, 28 days so far, including travel.

    I would log more time if closer to the mountains, but I kind of stall out with a solve until I can go test it.
    It is a fun hobby, I love solving puzzles but never had one that lasted 5 years.

    I’m still amazed that someone would go hide a treasure chest and create this challenge.
    So many firsts for me, catching Rocky Mountain trout, watched Sandhill Cranes feeding, had a Grouse heart attack – you know what I mean if one ever jumped from your feet, watched courting Grebes, a Garter Snake convention, Mountain Lion dining hall, so many more close encounters with wildlife and plant life. And the mountain views have me hooked. Once I’m done with this I want to head back to MT and find a little gold dust in one of those cold streams. I’m hooked, I will forever be hiking somewhere in the Rockies. Maybe one day life will allow me a summer cabin there.

    • Meadowlark,
      I think that you have already found the real treasure by what you’ve described. I do believe that’s what Forrest was referring to and what the majority of true searchers have come to realize.
      I too have stepped on grouse grenades and it temporarily stops my heart every time.
      Best of luck and be safe.

  9. Thanks Dal….sub.

    Also, thanks for checking on the “edit”.

    Cheers!

    • It’s a good topic. Thanks for starting it (My reply didn’t appear under your post, though, because the news system, so it appeared further down.)

      • Could you explain the issue in more detail? Was there not an option (reply button) to reply to that comment? The settings are currently set to reply 4 deep. Could it be that?

        • Let me see if it works Chris. I’ll let you know what it’s doing. Thanks for your great help.

        • Seems to be working. My name and email populated finally just now after putting it in. Was not populating before. Good work Chris.
          Thanks so much!

  10. Dal, Is the Where Warm Waters Halt thread closed permanently. It looks like part ten is closed and I don’t see a part eleven. I wanted to tell everyone where warm waters halt, but I guess I can’t now.

  11. I was hoping that someone could help me locate a video clip that was done over a year ago where Forrest was at his home, standing in front of his wall filled with medicine bags, and giving advice on how to stay safe in the mountains. I believe he said something like ” dress warm, take water ect…” It was a pretty short clip overall.
    I can’t for the life of me seem to locate this anywhere; but I do know that it is out there in the blog abyss 🙂
    Thanks ahead of time if you are able to assist me with this.
    Friend

    • That’s a really good question. I’ve been dropping in all day and don’t see a lot of the regular people here. All I see is the odds and ends thread and the same people. Are we in the Twilight Zone? lol I wonder what’s up?

      • Sparrow, it is strange for it to be this quiet on Dal’s blog. I was wondering the same thing. Maybe everyone is out running to the same spot….lol. See ya my friend

  12. Chris—-

    I apologize for whining the other day about posts, etc. This site is so fast now it’s incredible. Great job!

  13. Chris,

    I appreciate all of the work you have done. I still have a problem, after clicking on a couple of posts, the most recent post I click on just goes to the top of a thread, such as Sparrows post doesn’t appear, unless I scroll all the way to the bottom to see it.

    Could it be my browser? I have to close and restart, then things are fine and then after clicking on a different thread the problem starts again.
    My browser is FireFox. I just checked this also happens on Edge also.

    • I have had the same problem – If, after it goes to the top of the thread, I click on my recycle icon, it then goes to the “clicked-on” entry – JDA

  14. Hi everybody I am having a problem with the2016 interviews. They will not load up & play anybody having problems there.

      • Dal,

        I just tried to open your website and I kept getting a pop-up window to either browse on my computer to select a program to open or save a file named ocet-stream.

        I then tried a search for your website and clicked on the link there and had the same problem opening the site.

        The only way I got in was to click on Rules in the search results under your blog name. An indirect way to get in other than clicking on a direct link to your home page.

        This was at 8:51 pm MST 3-6-18

          • I did some experimenting. I find that I have no issues using Safari (Apple’s web browser) but when I switch to Chrome I can’t get into the blog. It just downloads a file…which appears to be a file with nothing in it…
            So this sounds like a problem for detective Chris…I sent him a note…let’s see what he figures out…
            He may be regretting his decision to help out here…but he’s good so I hope not…

        • Dal,

          I just tried again and it’s next to impossible to get in on anything. I’m clicking on a lot of links to your web page https://dalneitzel.com

          Other than your page my browser works on other sites

          • Dal—-
            Same here. I had to jump through hoops to get to your site. It’s next to impossible to get on. It just started happening an hour or so ago.

          • Just made some changes to the server to see if it would correct it. Is it still not opening correctly? I’ve attempted to duplicate it on ever browser/device and it’s working fine. Is there a page that it happens on every time?

          • Chris,

            Sorry I didn’t stick around last night, Everything is working great now.

            Thanks for all the work you have done.

      • There seems to be a broken link at “Most important info”… the first link “Winter is here” is linking to “Safety first”… Best, TLo

  15. This site is working pretty dang good overall. Very fast.
    This will be great for next winter commenting and researching. HaHa…

    • Next winter, you can comment and research about your
      grandchildren and great-grandchild(ren). Thanks, y’all.

      OH! I should say sometink about the hunt. I think that
      “heavy loads” (in one of the possible “layers” of the poem)
      may refer to guilt, and “water high” (in one of the possible
      “layers” . . . think onion . . .) may relate to tears. All IMO.

      • tighterfocus- here are the layers….
        first outdoors
        second indoors
        third underground.

        i think.

        but, then again im a three time loser.

  16. This portion of a quote from scrapbook 53 has always given me food for thought:

    ” Being Forrest Fenn is getting harder all the time, but it will continue to be fun as long as I have a tree to hide behind, maybe a tree with an f carved in its trunk. ff”

    My very first search in Montana lead me to a tree with a lower case f carved in the trunk; rechecking the spot this summer.

    Be careful out there.

  17. Was tea with olga actually a tea ceremony? If so the colors of tea relate to directions as well.Green tea is east or wood, Red tea is south and fire, and black tea is north and water. Possible triangulation to the chest? Imo

    • Interesting theory John Edo. May I ask where you are getting this tea ceremony info from? I haven’t found anything like that online.

      Thanks!

          • Funny, I was just looking at that and know exactly where it is. I didn’t associate the tea colors with it but it’s a good thought.

        • Thanks for sharing JE. Besides triangulation, those directions could align with the path to the treasure. I’ll have to read the chapter again but maybe the order the teas are mentioned in have some relevance.

          • Just looking at this with forrests comment to go back to the earth, this would have him in the wood. After earth is water;(rebirth); into the fire to form metal. The circle of life, in this case a star.

      • Most observant charlie! I think thats what clues hint to, and key is to find the center by connecting the clues! Here’s another for you: no place for biddies is in line of the poem. From there, it’s no place for “THE M” eek. Any others you can find? IMO

        • That’s neat. You’ve fairly tapped into Forrest’s own mind, if there’s anything to it.

        • good one John. I noticed that some time ago and thought it was pretty clever.
          it’s no place for them…eek.
          fun stuff

        • Bighorn Medicine Wheel, Dancing with the Stars. Dr. Eddy’s diagram. “F” cairn the point of the arrow. Sit in the middle, 24th spoke, extend a tangent, distance in miles is in the book, puts you to where a bell is buried, IMO. Hint, buried on land managed by the Bureau of Land Management.

          9th line read from right to left, broken down, gives the key. “kee me”.

          A place “dear” to him, try “Deer”.

          First clue “nailed down” involves a hardware store, where you buy nails.

          Clue lines plus the key line equal the book of days, 29220.

          2442 = 6 6 = FF

          three 8’s = elevation, roughly, 8008

          His rainbow is at 22 degrees, not 42. (Rainbow Halo)

          TYM mirrored equals 900. IX00

          XISIX

          “and go in peace”= p-a-g-e-n-o-a-d-c-e

          “So why is it THAT “I” must go”= Sowyst, Southwest. That is key.

          Marvel gaze= Andrew Marvell, “Upon Appleton House”.

          I have bunches, lol.

          I like the Medicine Wheel one the best, does Bighorn ring any bells?

          • If you like 22 degrees as a hint you should check out DG’s lat/long thread.
            Cool beans!

          • Yeah listen good! I had also found another medicine wheel that i believe follows the poem, but is unknown; puts orion, sirius, pleiades on map! IMO

        • Could narrow it down by his ATF comment about ringing bells…

          Sun dance, dancing with stars….and such.

          Just a basis for his stories.

          It is pretty cool that people leave things there in memory/respect. Mostly bells. Plus, why wouldn’t he bury a bell on your path to the chest. He may want to know. The more you think about it, the more it makes you think…

          • Charlie –

            I know you are a big bell ringer for the Medicine Wheel solve.

            I am surprised you are not also exploring other avenues.

            Lugnutz

          • Just bored Lug. Have explored so many avenues, sometimes it gets dizzying.

            The med wheel is not so much a solve. Outside of the poem. More like a big hint factory. As far as a solve, have nothing in the solve relating to med wheel. It just so happens that the med wheel points to my spot. I just think that it might fit the story of the bells because it points to an almost exact spot, within a mile. Figure there may be a bell. That wheel also tells me “to X”, so I figure maybe my “X” has a bell. Nothing in the poem has told me as much, so I take it as it is, a possible outside source of something outside the poem. The wheel matches more to the book.

            My solve is just follow the instructions in the poem. Look for instruction words and letters and do what is told to do. Along with abbreviations, misspelled words, numbers, and ATF’s.

    • Don’t forget the Oreos. Black and white. According to the link you put for the tea ceremony that adds west too. There are many cultures with many different tea ceremonies. Cool find though.

  18. I’ve been lurking on the site since discovering the hunt back in July.
    I haven’t had much to say until the recent website work and I am so impressed that I needed to thank Chris for making it so easy to lurk.
    minion

  19. How may I add an image to my posts?
    I’ve looked around the site and attempted to click around the current image but to no avail.
    Thanks!

    • Minion.

      If CharlieM’s post is not clear, Go to WordPress.com . There you will find an option to replace the “Quilt” with a picture, for your avatar. Good luck – JDA

      • Thanks! Just about the time you posted, I had started looking on WordPress and spent 20 of some of the most frustrating minutes figuring out just what you posted! I gave up on WordPress and went to the internet for help. Ultimately creating an account on gravatar to my email. Picture hasn’t shown up yet though 🙁

  20. “Firthst I looked in New Mexthico, no luck!! Then I looked in Colorado and there wath nothin’ there either!! Nextht I looked in Wyoming and found nothin’ there either. Allsth I can thay ith I better find somethin’ in Montana or I think thith whole thing is a hoaxth!!! If I don’t find it in Montana, Forrest Fenn, you’re dethipicable!”

    –Daffy Duck

    • Eh, what’s up, doc?
      What an embezzle! What an ultramaroon! Gee, ain’t I a stinker?
      – Bugs Bunny

    • Sparrow- it is a ruse. hoax is not the proper term. look them up.
      Forrest is not now and will never be dethipicable.
      once you understand.

  21. Random question that probably won’t help anyone get any closer to the chest…

    Has Forrest shared specific details about the name/location of his “My War For Me” waterfall in Vietnam? I’m having a lot of fun on Google Earth looking for waterfalls that match his description and this is my best guess:

    Phú Cường Waterfall

    QL25, Dun, h. Chư Sê, Gia Lai, Vietnam
    +84 97 904 00 34

    https://g.co/kgs/W9m6Sz

    Has anyone else searched for it?

    • That does match his description but I’d have thought it’d be nearer Tuy Hoa? Seems to be 180km away.

      • You’re right, this is inland northwest of Tuy Hoa, but if you’re heading north to the Ho Chi Minn Trail, it seems reasonably on the way.

        I know I’m throwing darts, but it’s been interesting researching all the waterfalls in Vietnam 🙂

        Thanks for the reply. Cheers!

    • That is a good post and I agree that the TC is in a National Forest and no other type of land including BLM land.

    • Thanks Dal…Cynthia has brought up a great point to look at closely. Folks have been pondering this aspect for years and can peruse your site for many different discussions/opinions. I tend to agree that a searcher can logically exclude areas by doing proper research. I believe that the Poem is going to spell out exactly where to go….and there will be no question who “owns” the Chest upon retrieval. Nice post Cynthia…

      • Ken- Forrest said if you can find the treasure chest you can have it.
        we all own it right now.
        we just dont know it.
        listen to the wizard. (of OZ)

        • dodo….that is one way to look at it.
          Fenn did say that and serious searchers need to focus on what “he” says. I suspect there is a bit more to it when all is said and done…a savvy searcher will have a plan.

    • I agree with Cynthia
      And if the key word happens to be
      YOUR
      Then that’s similar to TFTW reference of govt guys where a Fenn writes, “Their wonderful national park”
      THEIR and YOUR being EVERYONES, right?
      And National Parks are usually kept from changing names of features…so would make great clues for 1000’s years.
      I’ll sign up for that logic. Wink

      • Then again, if YOUR is the key word it could also mean your own ‘riddle solution’, right? Like how Yellowstone lake looks like a football player- Thumb being the football.

    • Dal,
      I like Cynthias new blog…lots to think about.

      What I found curious was your comment:
      “…..maybe WWWH really is something broad like the continental divide rather than a tiny point on the map…or perhaps all of Yellowstone National Park rather than a small hot spring that runs into the Firehole River”

      Sounds like a huge philosophical change for you. Do you really believe this (WWWH not a discreet spot) or were you just trying to stir the conversation?

        • Loco –

          What’s great about Dal’s commnet is that he actually used a completely different meaning for Halt whether he meant to or not.

          Halting has nothing to do with stopping, it’s stammering. Almost always used to refer to speech. Same root word of course, halt.

          If I said something was halting you would picture something that isn’t operating efficiently but you wouldn’t think of something that stops. So that is different than ho most here and elsewhere seem to treat the word Halt.

          So maybe warm isn’t a temperature. Maybe there is no body of water. Maybe whatever it is sputters or limps or limps.

          Lugnutz

          • Halting can be a temporary or permanent thing.

            Beauty and Chromatic Pools in Yellowstone are IMO a great example of WWH temporarily. See Below:

            Beauty and Chromatic pools are connected underground. Over a period of weeks one pool gets hotter and begins to overflow as the other gets cooler and stops overflowing. Then the process reverses. Usually the pool that is overflowing is the most colorful.

          • halt
            n. A disease in sheep

            Foot and Mouth Disease. – Halt
            Halt is a troublesome complaint, and one often mistaken for distemper, though there is sufficient difference to make the distinction easy, halt affecting the feet only. It is disputed whether or not halt is contagious; and, to be safe, it should be attended to at once. If neglected, all the feet become affected; and from the difficulty of moving about to obtain food the animal losses flesh, while if taken in time it causes little detriment. Some land seems to produce the disease more than others, and the “Downs” appear more liable to it than any other variety of sheep.
            hmmm,
            North Downs, Surrey, Epsom salt. Lol, wwwh has something to do with Epsom salt…

            Just thought I’d throw a wrench…

        • Locolobo
          I wonder if anyone showed that comment to seeker. Ive seen his past posts last year of using YS as such a wwwh.

          • Yes, Kira — Seeker is definitely familiar with that dollarbill thread from years ago about YS and the CD being too large to be WWWH.

          • Zaphod

            I try to follow along, but there is so much, so I missed that comment.

            I have could the YS boundary be a possibility to keep an open mind. I dont have wwwh nailed but, but have many options. It seemed he put so much into expressing that YS was the wwwh. At least its off my list.

          • Kira: I wouldn’t discard Yellowstone wholesale; it’s only that Forrest seems to have been pretty insistent that WWWH is a specific (small) spot, not a vast region like a state, the continental divide, or a huge national park.

            After all, what color are bananas? And what does Einstein translate to?

      • See…the guys who’ve been around the block a couple of turns pay attention to most of the details! HA…
        I was almost convinced for a nanosecond… maybe!

        • It is those details that count Ken. I hope that I have listened, and figured out the last couple of details. I guess only time will tell pardner – JDA

    • I have read the Legal Ponderings thread, but I don’t recall anyone saying why BLM land is out…and Cynthia did not say why either, anyone care to weigh in? I agree with JDA that NF and BLM have same standards for ‘turning in abandoned property’. My thinking is that the BLM is the least funded agency with the most square miles, so nothing to worry about, you won’t run into anyone…but I’m also think WhatIF FF wanted the monetary nature of Indulgence to go to Native Americans, and given how many of us want to exclude tribal lands, it seems a PLAUSIBLE idea…not saying I’m going to go searching, but the wind river range is an excellent example of a vast expanse of land that would be difficult to control on the best of days, impossible on the rest.

      To add to the thought that WWWH could be an ‘area’ or region, so could Hot Springs county…and both lead to a great canyon down (wind river canyon), now just need to fit those pesky other clues. Given Loco’s reference to Dal saying that FF once said ‘not in YNP region’ can anyone produce the true quote from FF? I spent an hour on tarry scant and cannot find anything related to YNP and FF saying ‘no’…he has made some off handed ‘funny’ comments, but not definitive, IMO IMO IMO.

  22. I have a the theory,
    Mr. Fenn “says he also holds to the quote often attributed to the actor Errol Flynn that “any man who has $10,000 left when he dies is a failure” — though Fenn amends the amount to $50. ”

    (Errol Flynn played “The Adventures of Robin Hood.”)

    I believe it to be possible, several people have found the chest. Each time it gets replenished for the next “wise Chaser to experience the Thrill of it all.
    It’s just a thought, but maybeeee!
    In my 2 weeks of research, I’m a newbie, I have discovered that this is the most well thought out, orchestrated, amazing rabbit hole I have ever seen. EVERYTHING is deliberate with meaning and double meaning. I have experienced and learned so many things, I otherwise would’ve never given any thought to. I wonder if he has a crew in the shadows to keep this thrill forever alive?

    The treasure truly is the chase and thrill of it all! That being said and meant, when I get to my solve, Here’s to hoping it’s not just a geocache box now with a can koozie or a key chain from the last wise Chaser 😉 Hope to see ya’ll at the X (after me of course) ~ Too far to walk or drive Illinois, but going anyway.

  23. I have several sites to search in the four states come the thaw. Two of the best are in National Parks – one in Colorado, the other in Wyoming. I’m thinking as a posibility, it could be easy if the treasure chest which is hidden is not meant to be taken and contains waterproofed instructions to retrieve the historical chest with the treasure. Imagine the Marvel when gazing upon the nearly empty contents of the chest which contains only some instructions.
    I take the hint of a duplicate chest from the stories of casting the bells. Mr Fenn has access to a foundry and it should be readily possible to have created a near duplicate chest.
    When possession of the historical chest is achieved and opened, that Marvelous gaze will still bring tears.
    If I were to find the chest under these circumstances, I would imagine leaving the chest with a waterproofed log for future finders to record their names, as after the first finder, the truth of the location will become more and more difficult to keep.

  24. The issue that has been brought up about having to bring the TC to lets say the National Forest Service if found. This would raises the question why would one have to do that legally? This would hold true if something was found that truly was “lost” by the owner and doesn’t know where it is.

    On the other hand if something that was deliberately “hidden” in a National Forest or Wilderness area primarily for others to find and it has been published is not lost. So I believe turning the TC over isn’t necessary
    because of the following:

    From Wikipedia, on National Forests: “Those west of the Great Plains in the Western United States, though established since 1891, are primarily on lands with ownership maintained by the federal government since the U.S. acquisition and settling of the American West. These are mostly lands that were kept in the public domain, with the exception of inholdings and donated or exchanged private forest lands.”

    Is it not true NF & Wilderness are in the public domain? Yes, public domain means: property rights that are held by the public at large. We pay taxes for the NFS to “maintain our lands”. The NFS falls under the Dept of Agriculture which falls under the parent of the Dept of Interior.

    “The mission of the BLM is “to sustain the health, diversity, and productivity of the public lands for the use and enjoyment of present and future generations.” also from Wikipedia.

    I am very comfortable in saying and going along with the poem, “Just take the chest and go in peace.” After all the treasure is “hidden and not lost” it is used for a treasure hunt on public domain land. The current owner is F and knows where it is, he is the donor and giving it to the one that finds it.

    I truly see no reason what so ever to turn it over. To whom would we turn it over to, the FS, BLM or the Interior? The answer is none, it’s not theirs at all.

    Always my opinion.

    • CharlieM;

      Please go to the Legal thread, read through it, and you might change your mind. In the legal thread you have entries by bloggers who have a legal background, and probably know a bit about the topic. Just a suggestion – JDA

      • JDA,

        I have a strong trust in F when he said in the poem “Just take the chest and go in peace.” and “I give you title to the gold.” He’s done his research. Don’t you think it’s foolish of F to say that, if he knew full and well the finder has to give it up and put out time & money to get it back? I don’t think so.

        Just Say’n

        • I agree CharlieM to the point that Fenn was not foolish in his endeavor. The specifics of what he worked with the lawyer(s) on for where/how the chest now resides is in my opinion the greatest mystery of all. That’s the part I’m now itching to find out. Come on summer!

    • CharlieM

      I can see that as a possibility. Fenn did say je would just fine the guy $10 and tell hin dont do it again that dug holes where je wasnt suppose to. So I can see Fenn thinking this. Buy what you actually do, thats up yo you. Or by reporting it, its the way of Fenn finds out it was found .

      • Kira,

        Of course I would tell F that I found it. Your talking about digging holes and leaving them. Those people deserve trouble.

        • CharlieM
          It seemed Fenn would just slap their wrist and say be smarter.

          Im torn about notifying Fenn. I envision him having a nice smirk as he passes away peacefully knowing all the while he showed them, those that gave him D’s that he was smarter than an entire nation.
          I dont know if I want to take that away from him and me. I say me as its my vision…

          I wont know unless its in hand, so who knows.

          • Kira

            Hey, I imagine the finder would have to just sit in the vehicle for awhile before even driving home. That could be the most dangerous drive ever. Thinking about what to do next, or talking to someone on the phone, etc.

            I would drive slowly :-))

            Franklin

          • Franklin

            My nightmare is being pulled over and the cop steals it with the asset seizure clause.

    • I would expect instructions on what to do next would be in the chest. He paid attorneys and said he thought of everything.

    • CharlieM

      In the old America we grew up in, you are correct. In this new nation of too many laws and too may regulations, I’m not sure. At any rate, if I were the finder, I would expect Forrest has left something which makes it clear how to proceed.

      One way he might have covered it is to have placed the TC and it’s contents into a trust. After the finder contacts Forrest, or a law firm he has designated, then the finder becomes the heir of that trust. Even if Forrest is still alive and well, this still works just fine. It is a really great way to shield an inheritance from taxation.

      I will add that the finder is under no obligation to go public, or to announce to the world that he/she has found the famous TC of Forrest Fenn. No one ever needs to know where it was found.

      As with you, this is just my opinion. I could be wrong.

      Franklin

  25. California Border: “Do you have anything you would like to declare sir?”

    Me: “Declare? Why no I don’t. I drove to Wyoming and now I’m coming back, that’s all. I’m not coming back with anything unusual at all. Just a visit is all—just a visit. I’m sweating because I have a fever–don’t feel too well at all.”

    California Border: “Are you OK sir? Are you hiding something? Is there something you’d like to get off your chest?”

    Me: “CHEST!!!?? What chest?? I don’t know anything about a chest. I just took a drive, nothing more–just a fishing trip is all. Can i go now?”

  26. No. Several years ago when coming back into California from Oregon the state border would ask if you had anything to declare. They would ask if you had fruit etc.

    • I’ve made the drive from Cali to WY recently. No border checks and the only issue I had was a speeding ticket in Idaho. I was sure I knew where the chest was and was a little too eager to get to it.

    • That’s was because of that fruit fly. They still have the stations but usually just wave you through.

  27. A little survey of sorts:

    Where in the poem would you say you are in your search?

    Want is your confidence level on a scale of 1-100 (100 being absolutely confident, i.e. sure; 1 being least confident, i.e you have no clue but you’re having fun)?

    Do you try to keep in contact with f?

    I will start… Cease, 100, contact f via snail mail or e-mail less than once per year.
    Also, Peace, 80, I make sure to say hello to f at Fennboree gatherings and book signings.

    What say you, fellow fenners?

    • Hi Slurbs: my survey replies would be 1. done with the poem, 2. 99 (there’s always doubt!), 3. four emails since 2015 (no replies, and none expected since the emails merely advised him where we had gone and why).

      Want to take this opportunity to extend my condolences to Tim(Zosorocks) — I truly can’t imagine what that must feel like. I will take the opportunity today to listen to “The Rain Song” in silent observance. I think I learned of Kim and Stephen Hawking within an hour of each other. 🙁

      • Zap –

        Slurbs seemed kind of incoherent to me.
        Is he asking for how often we communicate with Fenn?

        I would say I email FF fairly often and that he does not usually reply.

        To me, if F does not reply one must assume he did not read the email. To not receive a reply and think that F HAS read the email seems folly.

        Lugnutz

      • Hi Lugnutz: if F does not reply, I would not assume it was because he didn’t read the email. My few emails to him have been merely informative, with a few pictures on one occasion. I did not ask any questions (Chase-related or otherwise), nor did I expect any replies. If there is a fifth contact this year, it will be for only one reason, and it won’t be by email. 😉

        • Zap –

          Some folks assume he has read an email.

          They say things like Fenn did this because I wrote him, etc.

          It’s all nonsense.

          Lugnurz

        • Lugnutz: if one sends an email to Forrest and doesn’t get a reply, there is no practical way to know whether he read the message in part, in whole, or not at all. I know some searchers want to think he makes public comments with supposed embedded private confirmation hints, and I would agree with you that that’s nonsense.

      • IMO zap…two very intelligent people were lost yesterday.

        Thanks for your taking the time to respond.

    • Slurbs,

      Wood, 100
      Confidence, 100
      Contact F, very rarely, no replies

      Everything is easily married to the poem.

    • Slurbs,

      Confidence – 85% and growing. Blaze to TC is where I’ve been hung up for a bit but I’m closing in.

      Never email Forest although he would be interested in my solve….it fits the poem/clues/hints perfectly imo.

    • At the Blazes (6 solutions)

      Each solution meets MY interpretations with 10 to 90% confidence. 10% meaning, the clues fit down to finding a blaze (current belief that the blaze is discernable from satellite imagery), but I wouldn’t go looking there, as opposed to 90% where I’m waiting for the thaw.
      For me, 100% would mean travelling in winter and renting a snowmobile and facing cold weather risks because of whatever certitude was generated by the search tools being used.

      I emailed ff once in January since I just HAD to tell someone (other than my wife) about my 90% solution. Did not hear back through email. Nor did I hear any message passed to me in the Feb 4th ’18 interview (Very disappointed – hahaha. Though I did think for maybe 1 minute that it was me, and then had a hearty laugh at myself : ) )

    • Hello Mr. Slurbs.
      Dodo bird/Horatio/Hunch here. lol winkiy dinkiy.

      where am i at in the poem in my search?

      at the chest, looking quickly down, snapping with flash. thats where i is. and oh yeah, where heels high. in on the wood lid. gazing marvelly.

      100 pacent confidante. chum.
      no doubts, no qualms yes sir cap’n.

      no, i do not keep contact with the lower case f.
      just waiting.

      no further questyuns at this time. over-n-out fellow fenner.

      • Blaze
        80
        I email Forrest too often…I’m sure he’s blocked me by now!

        I’ll be in YNP in July. Can’t wait!

          • This will be my third and final trip to this location. I’ve spent hours BOTG searching around the area, but a recent simplification of my solve makes me more confident than ever…

            That, and I believe I’ve unlocked the keyword that has led me to the right spot.

            We shall see in 2018. Good luck to you!

          • Sounds like my story. 3rd trip for me too and have found a key word that helps me out. Good luck to you too! When in July will you be there? I’ll bring there the first week.

      • Mr. Slurbs:

        1. WWH…..100
        2. Canyon..100
        2. HOB……100
        3. Nigh…….100
        4. Blaze……100
        5. Quickly………………90
        7. Why……………………95
        8. Weak & tired……..100
        9. Brave & in wood…100.

        We have emailed F half-dozen times to keep him updated with our progress. Only one response back…when we sent him a picture of the Jayhawk posse..and he responded that we were scaring him!

        Billy and the deputy

    • I hold the tarry scant with marvel gaze, I need to be brave and in the wood. I think my effort was worth the cold but time will tell. Always confident in myself but I have made errors so 98%. I email Forrest often and share my stories. I think he should enjoy being chased as much as we enjoy chasing him.

  28. Fellow searchers and the FF community.

    It is with great sorrow and sadness that I have to say goodbye to my wife of 20 years this morning due to complications with the flu.

    She will truly be missed and loved by myself and our family.

    As of this morning, all my adventures have just gotten much sadder.

    Rest in peace my love. Kim I will truly miss you – you were my heart, my soul, and my eternal love.

    Please stay safe out there inn the wildereness for her.

    • Tim , my heart goes out to you. Also does my condolences to you and your family. My prayers are with you my friend… I promise to stay safe for her and you…..

      See ya my friend…

    • Tim,
      I am so sorry for your tremendous loss. I hope you hold on to the good & let the negative fade away. Blessed be to you & your family ❤️
      -B

    • Tim;

      I am so sorry for your loss. My thoughts and prayers go out to you and your family. I am sure that in her next journey, she will find the riches she so deserves. Peace my friend – JDA

        • Tim – I don’t know what to say… I am so sad and my heart aches for you. Sending to you and your family love and hope… Take care my friend….

      • Tim, I am so sorry to hear of your loss. This is so heart breaking. You have been with this community for along time. With our deepest condolences. May you find comfort friend.

        • Tim, please accept my deepest sympathy. And please know that the entire community mourns your loss.

    • Hello Tim (Zosorocks). I’m truly sorry to hear of your loss. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

    • Tim, Sorry hear of your loss. Never give up , there are dreams waiting for you and a shadow for you to follow each day.

    • In a movie based on a true story, The Other Side of the Mountain, there is this line: How lucky I am to have found someone and something that saying goodbye to is so damned awful. May you rest in peace, Kim, and may peace be with you, Tim and family.

    • Tim(Zosorocks), I’m so, so sorry for your loss. May your precious memories give you strength as you get you through each minute of every day.

    • We are truly sorry for your loss Tim. It’s heartbreaking. May peace be with you through this difficult time until you are reunited.

      • All in good spirits….but hey….I have no plans to reunite with her any time soon, but have my voice recorder handy if she wants to talk!!

        :O)

        Thanks for the kind words cowbell…..she we be missed dearly.

          • :o)

            Yes, that is one piece of equipment that can be used. I’m starting small. I also like that white noise frequency changer equipment I’ve seen being used.

            Crazy stuff.

            ;o)

    • Tim,

      I am so very sad to hear of your loss. Life can be so unfair. The HoD is a great support group in times like this.

    • So sorry to hear about your loss, Tim. Thoughts and prayers for you and your family.

    • Tim –

      Your loss is our loss and like Spallies I am at a loss for words. The news is shocking and makes me feel sad.

      But, look at the outpouring of grief and support here. I hope it helps with the pain.

      Lugnutz

      • This community is what I wish many communities around the world would do….band in unity for good times and the bad, because, when it happens, it truly shows support, and IMO – everyone knows you banded together for each other and that support.

        That is what I thank all of you for doing….caring about your fellow humans – total strangers — but done with compassion and empathy and elegance.

        In the least it makes me happier. Kim would thank you too.

        Be safe,

    • Dear Tom,

      A stranger from the coast
      Communal empathy and a toast
      In times of sorrow, one is true
      Love exuded unto you

      I have no other words and I am sorry for your loss. Please stay connected because this community is filled with love and hope.

      The Kelly’s

    • Tim—

      I just now saw your post, and the posts of all the others offering condolences. I am so sorry to hear of your loss and want you to know you and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.

    • Aww Tim…..my heart sank when I read that. I am so sorry to hear that!! I know no words can bring comfort, but just know you are in my thoughts and you have my deapest condolances. Please take care♡.

  29. thanks to all the responses and those not yet posted.

    Peace, love and rock-n-roll!

    Her treasures are my treasures and will always stay shining.

    I love you Kim!!!

    • My heart goes out to you and your family, Tim. There are just no adequate words. May you find comfort in the treasure of memories the two of you shared.

    • Tim Z,

      My heart goes out to you and your family on the recent loss of your beloved wife Kim.

      God bless you all

      Ronnie the Scot

    • Oh Tim, so sorry for your loss.
      My heart goes out to you at this difficult time.
      May you and your family find comfort in the Lord.
      May your memories be full of many fun and happy times with Kim.

    • 2 a.m. and just saw this and am in tears for you. My deepest condolences for you and your Kim. Wilderness and poetry…

  30. Very sorry to hear this Tim! Sometimes life can be very difficult. Hang in there!

  31. Very sorry for your loss, Tim. Prayer for you to have an overflow of love and peace especially right now.

  32. came out of retirement from the chase to say that we are sorry and that we are praying for you and the family stay strong—-frank

  33. My deepest sympathy for your loss and the personal struggle that you are enduring. May she rest in peace.

  34. Heartfelt condolences to you and family–praying the Lord Jesus comforts you and Kim’s family

  35. Tim,

    This is my first post, so I hope I do not misspeak. This community, that you are apart of, is heartbroken for your loss. I hope at some point, you share additional thoughts/stories about your wife, if/when the time is right for you. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

  36. Tim (Zosorocks),
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzUT00EM2DQ Dianne Reeves
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hhpRZZmVec Frank Sinatra

    No fears
    Remember there’s always tomorrow
    So what if we have to part
    We’ll be together again
    Your kiss
    Your smile
    Are memories I’ll treasure forever
    So try thinking with your heart
    We’ll be together again
    Times when I know you’ll be lonesome
    Times when I know you’ll be sad
    Don’t let temptation surround you
    Don’t let the blues make you bad
    Some day
    Some way
    We both have a lifetime before us
    For parting is never goodbye
    We’ll be together again.

    These words are Biblical and His promise to us that we will all be together up there, somewhere in heaven but for now, while we are alive, its a special place in the Rockies we search for.

    TT

  37. From SB 166 Email interview with Jon Lackman to FF in May of 2015.

    Question:
    “How much progress can be made by someone just thinking and searching the Internet from home? (Another way of saying this: How many clues can only be decoded in situ?)”

    FF: “All of them, in theory, but not likely in practice. A searcher must go to the site to find the treasure.”

    I firmly believe that those looking for the TC must be familiar with the search area. I don’t mean using GE all the way or any other map. GE or maps will get one to a general location, but one needs to be physically in the search area at least once to understand the solution.

    The first two clues can be solved at home with a good map and/or maps. A good two days was needed for me while on my first search to become familiar with the area. The terrain speaks volumes in the solution to finding the TC. Of course there where long hours spent after I returned home on the computer. I was using GE and a couple of other special maps and things that F and others had said that helped.

    The one oddity that I found was Dr Pepper did fit in, but only after I had found what I believe is the hiding spot of the chest. The other approach was to think along the lines of what might be out of character of F and then again not so much. I also believe the distance is larger than what one may think from the beginning to the end.

    As I said earlier the terrain speaks volumes and that is physically being there. One needs to understand the terrain to solve where the TC is. I believe that is the only way to find the TC. Feet on the ground then go home to research and then feet on the ground to retrieve. “Simplify”

    As always my opinion. Cheers!

    • CharlieM,

      You said “I also believe the distance is larger than what one may think from the beginning to the end.”

      What approximate distance from start to finish is your view? Over 10 miles?

      Just curious and respect that you may not share a specific distance. Cheers.

      • Also curious here, CharlieM. I am occasionally concerned about the length of my ~25mile route.

        • CharlieM, agreed. I’m not going to underestimate f. 80yrs old or not, Don’t go to where an 80yr old man can’t go? Lol, a fit 80yr old man or a sickly one? One who wakes up early and likes to get out and walk around or one that likes to watch tv? One that can run a marathon, or one that stands in the crowd. One that use to be an egotistical fighter pilot, or one who’s been behind a desk all of their working life? Yup, it’s not far….It’s TOO FAR “to walk”. And, if you are walking long distances looking for the treasure, then……

      • CharlieM, If 10 to 25 miles or so is correct, that might also be part of the reason it’s not been found yet. I’m just thinking about the number of potential possibilities that are along a distance of 10 miles for example. A person might get on a tangent many times and there are more potential detours with a longer distance.

        You might be right and it might also explain part of why solving correctly is so difficult. Cheers.

    • I would say that your opinion is totally correct. Some of the clues need to be found. Only with BotG. Take a lot of pictures is a good idea. The 3rd, 4th, and 5th clues seem to be BotG clues. Need to be there and see it. It’s possible that this way of thinking is the one thing searchers have not considered yet. You’re not going to solve all the clues just starting out. You can solve the poem, but not all the clues. Most of the clues are just to help a searcher know they are on the right track. The clues are just not that important compared to solving the poem. Forrest already had his spot, was going to make it work, the clues were noticed far afterword. If he wrote the poem to find a spot, that’s the best way to start, just like he did. Solve the poem, the clues will reveal themselves. He did not need a map. he knew exactly where to go. No map is needed to start trying to solve the poem, and only gets in the way. So yes Charlie, a good knowledge of the area is a good idea, and probably needed. Have a compass, it’s easy to get turned around out there. The compass:
      N could easily become:
      I N E
      W—–I—–E \ /
      I \
      S / \
      W S
      You might just find yourself in TX. (West Texas).

      • It is entirely possible that BOTG is needed to find clues past the first few. It is important, i think, to stay open minded about ways to solve this poem. It is fun to feel locked in and confident in a solve but being open minded about other potential methods seems logical to me.

      • I’m interested in this distinction you see between solving the poem, and marrying clues to points on the landscape. What does “solve the poem” mean to you, if it’s something different than solving the clues?

        • NovaKid,

          Solving the poem is solving the clues. I don’t necessarily count the clues, they are there but I don’t count……so…..it’s solving the poem to me.

        • Nova, (kid is already taken), solving the poem to me is following it’s instructions. CharlieM and I see this part differently. I say solving the poem gives you a spot on a map. An “X”. There are some clues that the poem solves and some it doesn’t. Here’s an example.
          Lets say the blaze is a mark on a tree. The poem does not tell you it’s a mark on a tree, or where it’s at. The poem does not have the info to solve for the blaze. But you solve the poem, get a spot, and head out. You pass by the first couple of clues then come to a tree with an owl marking. Below it is something the looks like a marvel gaze or whatever. You go on to your spot, find the chest. You now know that the tree with the owl marking was the blaze. The poem doesn’t solve for it, you don’t know it, but the poem solve has revealed it.
          The info in the poem doesn’t quite cover everything to solve all the clues. Some clues will be found on your path to your spot. Nobody here will solve all 9 clues before there first trip out. Nobody can say what the meek place is because the poem doesn’t tell you, unless they guess. Nobody really knows what the blaze is, it’s like knowing wwwh is. You won’t know until you have the chest. The only way to do that is to solve the poem. The poem tells you the spot the chest is at. In a sense, CharlieM is right, solving the poem is solving the clues. If you solve the poem, you will solve the clues. You just won’t know it until you have the chest.
          There are instruction words throughout the poem, this does not happen in regular speech, poetry, casual conversation, whatever. Each line has instructions, this also never happens, except in this poem. That’s because it is done by design. If you try to focus on clues or how many there are and how to solve them, you’re being distracted from the poem. IMO, they are two different parts of the chase. Just the fact that f has commented that a searcher will not know wwwh is until they have the chest confirms this idea. Look what the subject is in this ATF: -I don’t want to broaden the clues and hints I’ve written about by pointing them out. What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve.
          Something with the clues and hints.
          And this ATF:
          Forrest, Did you intend for there to be 9 clues, or did it work out to be just right with 9? ~ halo
          Nice thinking halo, I didn’t count the clues until the poem had been finalized. Although I changed it a few times over the months I think the number stayed about the same.f
          The poem was finalized then he noticed 9 clues. How could he write in the poem how to solve 9 clues when he didn’t know there were 9 clues? He wasn’t writing a poem to solve for clues, he wrote a poem to get someone to a spot.
          That’s not to say that some clues can outright be solved with the poem, just not all of them.
          So, if you know a searcher who has not been out on a search, but says they know what the 9 clues are and where the treasure is, you know they are just blowing smoke. They have no idea really.

    • I would say 25 miles is a good estimate. Those migrating west walked abouy 20 miles a day, 20 isnt far, but 25 is too far to walk.

  38. I think using a compass or any numbers will tend to keep a solve from
    being a good one (in my opinion).

    • focus, are you going to go into a forest, up a mountain, without a compass? Really???
      Lol, I want to comment but why? Will you be searching at night? Just following stars? I don’t get it.

  39. I believe that a searcher may figure out a clue but not fully understand the clue. One then commits to BOTG only to realize it wasn’t correct. Then after returning home and moping around, physically recuperating, and rehashing the hints for a couple of weeks does the little light bulb suddenly click on and a new level of understanding emerge. This is the slow process of evolving from a “general solve” to a “correct solve”…. or at least that’s what I keep telling myself! It would help if Forrest would respond to my e-mails to give me a thumbs up, but so far, nothing!

    • Chris from CO-
      Whether or not Forrest communicates with searchers I think it’s highly unlikely that Forrest would give anyone a thumbs up on their solve. He doesn’t tell folks if they are right or wrong. Although some people have interpreted what he has told them as an affirmation..I think they were deluding themselves. In my opinion, one of the reasons Forrest has decided to stop communicating with searchers is because they often wrongly interpret what he has written to them.
      Additionally, Forrest has tried to make sure whatever information he hands out, be it a hint or clue or simple guidance, is available to everyone, not just the person who receives the email.

      • I know Dal, I was kidding about Forrest getting back to me with the thumbs up! I’m not really a newby. More like a searcher who’s been at it for a few years and have just stepped out of the bushes in an attempt to look as though I was here all along!

          • At first, I had wanted a “thumbs down” when I was wrong, so I could look somewhere else, but the spot I’m at is awesome no matter what, so I’ll keep looking there

    • Chris, the comment about “evolving” is spot on in my opinion. I like to refer to it as “putting in the necessary work” to a correct solve. That’s what I believe ff meant for the chase. IMO he designed the chase so that a person would require many iterations of field BOTG and interpretations of the poem. He said the person who gets the TC will have worked for / earned it (or something to that effect).

      • Yes, I’ve worked very hard at some wrong solutions as evidenced by my stained and torn blue jeans! However, the realization of a wrong solve is an answered question!

  40. In TTOTC Forrest wrote that his church is in the river bottoms and in the mountains. Makes me think that “look quickly down” may mean one is standing at an elevated position (say, a mountainside trail) and looking down at something (in a river bottom). In this interpretation, ending the quest would incorporate both of those terrain types.

    • NovaKid

      The one thing (in a a river bottom) F likes to fish them, and the TC would be underwater and I believe f said, (not a quote) not underwater and it is just wet. So….near water. IMO

      • I agree, CharlieM. Water is powerful and rolls enormous boulders, so just imagine what it could do to a 40lb chest when it’s full of spring snow melt. So not in a stream, but near one. I interpret “river bottom” to mean the low-lying land near a stream, kind of like a stream valley.

        I’m also thinking about his infamous 200′ remark. Searchers must’ve related to FF that they were at a: 1) specific trail, 2) specific road, 3) specific stream, or 4) at a specific parking area like a small campground. (the alternative is they related specific coordinates in the middle of nowhere that they searched, but that seems unlikely). So yes, the searchers within 200′ were probably walking along a stream — or a trail that parallels a stream — and they passed within 200′ of the chest because they failed to recognize something that would lead them away from the trail/stream.

        • Yep, it is most certainly something FF would be able to recognize, like a trail or stream and know they were 200 feet from the chest. It seems if they told them of a stream then perhaps the TC is not on the stream but somewhere there is a view of the stream or surrounding area including the stream. If they told him of a trail that was 200 feet from the stream then yes perhaps on the stream or still somewhere with a view. Stream, creek, river, or view or my guesses.

  41. I found the chest! Well, in my dreams, anyways. Last night, I was awakened, more startled awake really, about 8 minutes before my alarm goes off (4:15 am) in the midst of a very strong vision of me discovering the chest. I’ve been picking away at the past posts and am up to Christmas of 2017, and haven’t been dreaming about Indulgence in quite a while, so this was revelatory. But don’t let this post dash your hopes, as it was simply the final reveal that I woke up to. There was no solving of ANY of the nine clues, so while it was a fanciful vision, it doesn’t help me at all, at least for the moment.

  42. @cowlazars- Hey Mike, I just watched your “Do not watch this video” vlog #63. Thank you. I needed a laugh today and you certainly provided that for me. Take care and stay safe out there. Leave the Oxy at home when you search though.

  43. News from Yellowstone…..
    Steamboat geyser in Norris is erupting after dormant for almost 4 years. It’s Yellowstone highest Water High!
    It has an interesting history. Reaching up to 400 feet. Also a few new vents apparently too.

    • Sparrow,

      Yes sir, you also.

      I need a good belt of Irish whiskey to steady the fear and fight of the Banshee taking away the Leprechaun and the pot of gold.

      • I have some 4 leaf clovers. Anybody have more? It helps in keeping that pesky Banshee away, need more!

      • CharlieM–
        I know where you can find some leprechauns and a turnip farmer. Would either of those help calm your fears?

        Best regards;
        Billy

  44. The meaning of life is to find your gift,
    The purpose of life is to give it away.

    – William Shakespeare

  45. Who here believes that the location of the TC can be found with just the TTOTC and Poem. The geography and a good map will assist one to be safe. Keep in mind when FF mentiond the above.

    • Hello Murmur. The poem, “The Thrill of The Chase” book, and Google Earth/good map to marry the clues to, and comprehensive knowledge of geography. I believe it will.

      • There may be some “good maps” in TTOTC that can be used as overlays to help us find a starting point. IMO.

        PDenver…will you be in West Yellowstone for the Montana meet-up in June??

  46. Okay…. I’m not sure if this is an odd or an end but I’m pretty sure that it’s one or the other….
    Question for Dal…. What becomes of this website should someone recover indulgence this summer? Will you shut it down? Shift the focus to something new?
    Seems a shame that the community you have built here might be lost….

    As for the rest of ye merry Fennsters…
    What say we come to an accord here and now, that whoever amongst us should retrieve Fenn’s long sought chest.. will not reveal the location of it’s discovery but replace it with a secondary prize of silver! Perhaps 1000 vintage Morgans in a modest iron and wood container??
    And after that, for third place, I would volunteer to sculpt a tasteful bronze of the Fenn himself …. Leaning upon his staff with an impish smile, one foot resting upon the legendary chest!
    All in agreement raise your frosty mugs and say Aye!!

    • That is a good idea. To leave something in place of the chest. I don’t have silver to carry with me in the very very very very microscopic chance that I ever were to find the TC and I know that I would not ever return to the spot if I did happen to find it. I have thought about the idea before and would bring something with me. Not sure if it would have much value as I am not wealthy. I might leave something anyways where I plan to go in the end of Summer just to see if anyone would find it there at the same spot. It would be interesting to do. I would probably leave a note. I hope the blog stays for a while, it is a good one.

      • Even a geo-cache would be better than nothing…. With some sort of sign in sheet… everyone who finds it and signs it becomes a member of an exclusive brother/sisterhood!
        I, for one, will opt to hide a hoard of silver in its place…. I can’t afford it now but if I am fortunate enough to be the lucky finder I would happily invest $20 or $30,000 towards a second place prize!

        Good fortune in your hunt Alopes!

        • It will be hard to keep the spot a secret after it is found imo. Too many interested observers will want to know the solve and ff will probably want to revisit the spot too. It is a beautiful area.

        • I like the idea of a sign in sheet! Thank you and Good Luck in your hunting as well 🙂

        • Lurker,

          I am open to the idea of continuing the Chase in some way IF I find it, BUT before doing so I would carefully consider the legalities and tax implications. Of course that would be after the decision is made whether to remain anonymous or not. And I’d love to have Forrest’s opinion in that regard, though he might not want to get involved.

          Pinatubocharlie

      • Unfortunate scenario to consider: finder leaves a “second place prize” for the second finder, and announces such on Dal’s, or another blog, or even via Forrest. A would-be runner-up gets injured or killed trying to be the second to Forrest’s spot. If you were the one to find Forrest’s treasure and replace it with that second place prize, how would you feel about this not-unrealistic potential outcome?

        • How about I take only a photo and leave the treasure?

          Now am I culpable if someone is killed?

          I ask because that’s the plan Stan.

        • Hi Lugz: not a question of culpability (after all, I don’t think any sane person believes Forrest is culpable for the fatalities so far). The question is how it would make you feel personally? As much as I’d like to leave something for the second person (or beyond), I have to weigh that wish against potential negative outcomes, however unlikely they might be.

  47. I wonder if Mr. Fenn would be agreeable to a foundation to formed in his name? Dedicated to introducing underprivileged children to the wonders of nature and a love for the outdoors….. Perhaps sponsoring other treasure hunts in other parts of the country? If we could put together a $10 million endowment we might continue the chase in perpetuity!

    • I have been having a similar thought.
      Driving home last year I couldn’t shake the image of a young lady working at a burger joint where I stopped. She had the biggest smile and happiest face of anyone I have evr crossed paths with. And it seeme she had spent her young life strapped to a wheel chair.

      Made me wonder why I don’t smile more. I’m only strapped to my own shortcomings.

      I kept wondering how many teens have never seen the kind of wonderful sights I had just left behind, where you have to get off the beaten path.

      • When I was a child the woods and fields were our playground….. So many children today seem completely unaquainted with the natural world …. They grow up in dark basements staring at dimly lit screens…

        And those with handicaps have so few opportunities… I always wanted to start a free summer camp for handicapped and underprivileged kids…
        Finding Fenn’s treasure might help make that a reality!

        Thank you for reminding me that we should always be thankful for what we have Meadowlark…. There are so many who have so much less….

        • Two of my 6 children are autistic. Treasure or no treasure, I have wanted to buy my parents farm and start a non-profit for disabled and disadvantaged children.

        • I am a full time caregiver of my disabled sister. I have taken her out on searches.
          She is not in a wheelchair, but I always wanted to ask Forrest if someone in a wheelchair could retrieve the treasure.
          Love that people like you Lurker care for those less fortunate!
          I would like to hear from others who have searched with disabilities and their stories!

      • Meadolark – I just reread your post:

        “And it seeme she had spent her young life strapped to a wheel chair.

        Made me wonder why I don’t smile more. I’m only strapped to my own shortcomings.”

        Very well said – thanks for sharing this.

  48. I carry a Peace dollar to leave, should I ever find the chest.

    It was uncirculated when I started searching but beginning to show some wear after 5 years.

    • That’s a good idea! I hadn’t planned to leave anything except uncontrolled tears of joy.

      • These are all noble thoughts, however in my opinion once the TC is found, Mr Fenn’s legacy should be left to live as he intended and we should not try to upstage his intent.

  49. Like I said above, I have six children. Two of them are autistic. My family has been with me on each of our 11 BOTG. My autistic children are awesome on the trail. They remind me a lot of Forrest Gump in that they love Dr. Pepper and they can walk and run FOREVER. All of my kids love to hike though. Our last hike (not chase related), my wife and I took our 3 year old. Even with a full-arm cast, that kid walked almost a half mile with no fuss.

  50. To recognize the nature of time, in relation to the end of our time drawing nigh; timing is everything.

  51. Hello, all –
    I feel like I once read something about a Time magazine that F keeps around… but I can’t remember, and my trying to find info is leading nowhere pertinent. Anyone remember what is on the cover? Or the year?

    Thanks!

    • @J re: Time Magazine, it’s the Year/month that the author of Catcher in the Rye died, F tossed his copy of Catcher into the round file on top of Time. So, this info can be found in one of the chapters of The Thrill of the Chase Memoir…..sorry for late reply, haven’t had time to log in much. Real Estate has been keeping my busy for a change……

      • @J re: Time Magazine, it’s the Year/month that the author of Catcher in the Rye died, F tossed his copy of Catcher into the round file on top of Time. This info can be found in one of the beginning chapters of The Thrill of the Chase Memoir…..sorry for late reply, haven’t had time to log in much. Real Estate has been keeping my busy for a change…… IMO it’s the month or close to Salinger’s death, just my thinking, we don’t know the exact date on periodical publication…just an assumption on my part!

  52. IT’s easy enough to do so I want to say I don’t think the TC will be recovered this year.

    I don’t think I’m too far out on the branch.

    Lugnutz

    • Even a short ways out on a rotten branch is perilous Lug – Just a thought – Question – Why do you think that it will not be found? Seven years have passed – going on eight. Don’t you think that in that time enough information has been exchanged and enough ATF info has emerged, that someone might put all of the correct pieces into the puzzle? I think that it will be found. JMO – JDA

      • JDA –

        You should probably keep in mind that I don’t believe he gives out clues ATF. He has done some hinting and he likes to stir the beans.

        For me it’s important to listen when he flubs and when he is speaking from the hip. I don’t put any weight on his prepared statements.

        he may have made some mistakes and those mistakes may be valuable.

        If you find the treasure this year I hope you throw us all a party!

        Good Luck!
        Lugnutz

      • I agree JD. I think it will be found by the end of the summer this year and I believe it will be me lol.

    • Mr. Lug-

      I believe you are discounting Mr. f’s opinion. IMO He may some insight that is not available to you. Time will tell…..

      1 F Billy

      • When Fenn said he had a gut feeling that was a fishing reference.

        That’s my opinion.

        You folks sure do like to jump back and forth between taking Fenn at his word and thinking he is always deceptive.

        You don’t think in any way he said the first 2 clues are within 500 feet, but then he absolutely means that he thinkgs he treasure will be found.

        You should work for a politician!

        • Lugnutz,

          For me, I look for the two senses in his statements. If could be that one sense of “gut feeling” is a fish reference, and the other is the colloquial phrase we all understand. But what’s insinuated by fish, I wonder?

          Whatever the multiple senses of “gut feeling,” I think he’s always truthful with the superficial meaning of his words, which in this case means he has a strong feeling TC will be found within a few months.

          • I believe it is possible that the “it” he is referring to is the “it” in the poem. “It” is found ever year IMO.

          • UpInTheAir

            He works fishing references into his interviews indirectly.

            Are those clues or just the language he is comfortable with?

            “Simplify” is a clue because he ha said it is.

            Lugnutz

        • Lugnutz,

          If you look at the Feb 14, 2018 email interview over at MW, there is no reference to a conversation about fishing for a “gut Feeling”

          I don’t know for sure if you are toying with folks here or not. Its just my opinion that you are deceiving your self.

          IMO

          • CharlieM –

            The word Gut can be a fishing reference.

            I noticed a pattern. He uses fishing references in his interviews just like that. Instead of directly saying Gut a fish. He says he has a gut feeling.

            Like If I love cars and I want to hnt at that so I say I drank a six pack of beer. Then either the reader does or doesn’t think about MOPAR. Then next time I talk about dodging a question.

            So what do I know? Maybe he thinks the treasure will be found and maybe he just wanted to introduce the word Gut.

            Lugnutz

  53. I put in to TTOTC just recently with new eyes. The way I see it, this is not going to be done one weekend or over Spring Break. I have several solves that fit. Could one of them bring me to the TC? Sure could or maybe not. That’s the TTOTC.

    • Hello Murmur. Hope one of your solves works out for you. It’s definitely a challenge and will take time.

  54. Allow me to throw this one out there and see the various opinions.

    Forrest said, “Generally speaking, there are places where one should stay on established trails; Yellowstone is one.

    There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty [proximity] to where I hid the treasure. f

    I have omitted the middle part of the quote where Forrest states his dislike for being on a trail and that there isn’t any adventure in that.

    So, does this imply that the treasure isn’t in Yellowstone NP? F wants people to have an adventure in searching for the treasure. States also that one should stay on the trails in YNP. Then says that there aren’t any human trails in close proximity to the treasure! Seems to me he is saying that your adventure lies elsewhere!

    • Definition of generally speaking. —used to say that a statement describes a general feeling or opinion relating to or affecting all the people or things in a group.

      The general opinion of most is that one should stay on the trails in YS. That doesn’t mean everyone should, including searchers. There are plenty of people that do off trail back country hikes in YS. I would guess the general opinion would not apply to them either.

      • Yes Aaron, I agree with your definition of “generally speaking etc…” And, I would agree this wouldn’t necessarily eliminate YNP as a search area. It’s not that definitive. However the question is, what is F implying? What if I paraphrased his statement…

        “Without getting specific, let me say that there are places where people should stay on the trail. YNP is one of those places. I’ve never liked staying on the trail. There isn’t any adventure in doing so. To find the treasure you will have to leave the trail.”

        So is he challenging people to be defiant to what should be done in YNP? Or is he saying, “Perhaps your efforts will be better spent elsewhere.” Personally, I think the latter.

        • We can guess at what we think he means by that statement but who knows for sure except Fenn? You are missing the entire quote though and with it in it’s entirety I get a different feeling of what he means.

          Generally speaking, there are places where one should stay on established trails; Yellowstone is one. However, it reminds me of the worn-out axiom, “If you ain’t the lead dog, the scenery never changes” When I am in the mountains or in the desert, the last place I want to be is on a trail. Ain’t no adventure in that for me. There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty to where I hid the treasure.

          After talking about what one should do in Yellowstone he then uses the word “However”. To me this means that whatever he stated before the word “However” is about to be rebutted, which it is.

          Don’t get me wrong though, I am happy for people to stay out of YNP 🙂

    • Chris,
      I would not go looking for the treasure in any National Park or Indian Land.
      That doesn’t mean the clues are not in there but I don’t’ think the treasure is.

    • Hello Chris

      I have never believed the TC is anywhere near YNP. He spent way too much time writing about it for the treasure to be there. I think his stories about the park are a distraction. He would not make it that easy.

      This is my opinion. Many will disagree.

      Franklin

      • YNP = 3,471 mi²

        Even if it’s there, you can search every day for the rest of your life and never find it.

      • Franklin,

        I agree Yellowstone is not where it is hidden, though I used to be in that camp. But I would like to add a cautionary note. To infer or suggest the stories contain no helpful information related to helping a searcher move forward towards the correct solve is poor advice..

        Pinatubocharlie

    • Implication is a tool frequently used by FF. But just implying
      something is not the same as making a statement/claim.

      Careful thinking and logic are important, as well as a decent
      vocabulary. Have you looked up “halt” in a dictionary?

      The above is part of my opinion. Yours may differ.

      • I admit I had not looked up “halt” in a dictionary. Aside from the traditional meaning of, “to stop” or “to cease direction” are we talking about, “a minor British railway station” or the archaic meaning, “to be lame.” Kidding aside. Perhaps there’s a meaning I’ve missed. (it’s happened a time or two)

        • Don’t forget to look up any Proto Indo European (PIE) meaning. The origin of the words are key to me as I think FF is a wordsmith by nature.
          Good luck in your word search.

    • Chris from C.,

      With regard to the Chase, my inclination would be to follow his advice. Stay on the paths in Yellowstone.

      As to your comment “I have omitted the middle part of the quote where Forrest states his dislike for being on a trail and that there isn’t any adventure in that.”, IMO that is the most important part of the quote because it ……. oh, sorry, I lost my train of thought.

      Pinatubocharlie

      • Good laugh Pine of Charlie thanks:
        “…the most important part of the quote because…Oh, sorry, I lost my train of thought…”
        lol…but downright mean at the same time. haha.

    • Hi Chris

      I have always believed the TC is not in YNP. Forrest has dedicated a lot of space to it and the stories of his family and youth. I think of YNP as a big distraction to throw searchers off the trail of where the TC really is.

      Anyway that is my opinion, and many disagree.

      Franklin

    • Chris,

      There are two other quotes that could be used to support that assumption. However there are still many places around YS that could be favorable to its location.

  55. Could somebody help this dumb old hayseed out and tell me what “ATF” means
    in these threads? The only ATFs I ever heard of are Automatic Transmission Fluid and the Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms wing of the IRS. Thanks in advance.

    • Boaz, ATF stands for “ After The Fact “ . Often referring to comments made by Forrest. Hope that helps ya…
      See ya my friend……..

      • Oh, After The Fact…I thought that might be the case but then I saw sometimes it is used in such a way that didn’t make sense in a sentence…which led me to doubt. Thank you for clearing that up for me Focused.

        Have a good breakfast, I’m out of eggs and bread again, lol.

        A bit odd but I must say these critical words before I go: Odds, Treasure, Ends, and about The…or more simply put: Odds and Ends about the Treasure.
        Ok,ok, I’ll stop my nonsense now.

        “In the multitude of words there wanteth not sin: but he that refraineth his lips is wise.”

        Solomon

  56. Why “Indulgence?”
    I started the search in the Summer of 2017. The offseason is frustrating to say the least! Since I have my new X marked, I am just awaiting the melt. I thought I would offer up my final thought.
    Why Indulgence?
    Forrest is a master wordsmith. I think most agree that he uses multiple denotations and connotations within the poem.
    Indulgence: the action or fact of indulging.
    Indulgence: historical (in the Roman Catholic Church) a grant by the Pope of remission of the temporal punishment in purgatory still due for sins after absolution. The unrestricted sale of indulgences by pardoners was a widespread abuse during the later Middle Ages.
    Indulgence: an extension of the time in which a bill or debt has to be paid.

    So, my follow up question. What is Forrest’s “secret?”

    Did something happen in Vietnam? Is the chase a debt he is paying for a past deed or misdeed? And lastly, what will be the difference between his memoir and the biography within the chest?

    Perhaps nothing, but these are the things that I ponder until my search season opens. Searchers who have weathered several winters have my admiration. I’d love to hear some discussion if others have this same thought. Thanks for indulging.

    • Kyle;

      This is only my second Winter Recess. Both have brought important insights into how I perceive the poem and its riddles.

      Taking a break and just breathing deeply, and letting the poem enter your subconcious has paid important rewards – or so I hope.

      As yet, I have not found Indulgence, but I think with a new clarity of mind, it just might be possible.

      Forrest admonishing searchers to “Simplify” has been very important in my approach.

      Reading almost every ATF comment, reading every SB over and over again, as well as “listening” on the blog, and not just running my mouth has helped greatly. I know the blog is for entertainment, but there are also little gems that occasionally pop to the surface, if you know who to listen to, and who to ignore.

      Read, study, breathe in and slowly breathe out – AAAHHHH

      Winter Recesses are hard, but rewarding IF you Just let it happen – All a bunch of BS from an OLD fool – JDA

          • I’ve been pretty low key for the past couple of years but I’m getting a little fidgety this time around. Looks like 3 more months of Winter in the higher elevations.

    • I don’t believe that Forrest has any big secret to atone for. The name Indulgence has a double meaning. First it’s wealth and splendor is an indulgence. Secondly however, it is simply an indulgence to make up for Viet Nam. Undoubtedly Forrest served our country more than admirably, but at the end of the day, a bomb is a bomb. It doesn’t make any difference who has asked you to drop it. That’s a pretty heavy thing to live with. The Chase is a way to make some peoples lives better. And it has!

      Thank you Forrest!

    • Of the many definitions of ‘Indulgence’ to be found online I like the following one by M Webster:
      “the practice of allowing enjoyment of whatever is desired”.

      PS. Mr Fenn has nothing to apologize about regarding his military service.
      IMO.

      • “the practice of allowing enjoyment of whatever is desired”.

        I like that! I could stand for a bit more of that in my life.

    • Kyle, Those are two things that I have mulled over many times as well. My War For Me. I will share a bit. My father went to Vietnam as a young man, his mother signed for him to go at 17. He did two tours there and it was something that changed his soul until this day. I can only image what secrets are held close to his heart. I believe that FF holds many secrets dear to his heart as well, and not all of them are war related. Some most important thoughts. Debt, forgiveness, peace, happiness. The poem from Omar Khayyam. We are all here only for the pleasure of others. “If I cannot enrich those with whom I interact each day and caused them to be better for my having passed my view, then I have wasted my turn. That I succeed in that endeavor is not as important as it is for me to make a solid try. For if the try is sincere then I have succeeded in whatever failure resulted.” f
      Maybe we are the ones being indulged.
      No… that does not mean that I do not believe in the TC, completely the opposite, it means that I see how I have bettered myself for having passed his view despite my failure (to find the TC) and his try was sincere.

  57. One version of the waybill left by Captain Thompson to the Loot of Lima is given here. The ‘bay’ mentioned, located on the northeast, MAY be Chatham Bay: “Once there follow the coast line of the bay till you find a creek, where, at high water mark, you go up the bed of a stream which flows inland. Now you step out 70 paces, west by south, and against the skyline you will see a gap in the hills. From any other point, the gap is invisible. Turn north, and walk to a stream. You will now see a rock with a smooth face, rising sheer like a cliff. At the height of a man’s shoulder, above the ground, you will see a hole large enough for you to insert your thumb. Thrust in an iron bar, twist it round in the cavity, and behind you will find a door which opens on the treasure.”

  58. the part . ”against the skyline you will see a gap in the hills. From any other point, the gap is invisible. Turn north, and walk to a stream. You will now see a rock with a smooth face, rising sheer like a cliff. At the height of a man’s shoulder, ”
    seems like a blaze IMO

    COUD FENNS BLAZE LOOK LIKE THIS ?

  59. I read the blogs now and then. Now there are many that are sure about their solve as usual every year.
    Thanks for the entertainment.

    • This is the year Chance according to ff’s gut feeling. Wishful thinking or does he know something we don’t?

      • morecowbell,

        I’m sure F knows something about someone who has shown or wrote him about the complete solution to the poem. I can see no other reason for him to say he has a gut feeling the the TC would be found this summer.

        There have been comments on this blog to the effect that he may be just pushing searches to go with their solution.

        Then some say he was referring to their solve, which may be as you said wishful thinking. Then there are those that say it won’t be found in 2018. With all that I have said, its all speculation except for the one that is very confident.

        I personally believe the finding of the TC will be announced sometime this July. Call me crazy, but I have a gut feeling and that has nothing to do with gutting fish. 🙂 IMO

        • Yes, I believe that someone is getting close. I guess that we will find out this Summer. IMO

        • CharlieM

          I will put forth the hypothesis that several searchers have sent a complete solve to Forrest during this past winter. My feeling is that more than a few are very confident in their respective solves.

          When you think about it, Forrest is the only outlet for any of us to lay out a complete solve, and still keep it secret. When you are excited about your ideas, Forrest is the only safe person to give details to, except for a trusted spouse or child.

          Getting closer every day. Time for some new tires.

          Franklin

          • I doubt he gets complete solves or even very specific solves if someone truly believes they know the hidey spot. Too much risk imo.

          • How is it a risk if you think you have a correct solve, and send it to Forrest?

            What are you afraid of, that Forrest is going to move the TC to keep the chase going? Sorry, I don’t buy it. JDA

          • There is nothing to fear, but for what purpose? He is not going to respond in a way that is helpful, if he responds at all.

          • JDA: regular email is not secure. For that reason I would be wary of telegraphing a complete solution to Forrest prior to actually going. What would be the point, anyway? It’s not as if Forrest would reply.

          • Many searchers are giddy about their wit and want to proclaim how smart they are. They may play coy on blogs but doubt to Fenn.
            But hey lets worry more about the sun exploding.

      • The 200′ & 500′ comment seems to be flawed.
        Just think if you were a searcher before those comments were made and you did email Forrest about the one area you searched and he saw pictures from you as he said. It’s also possible he could have seen & recognized the place from the internet.

        Keep in mind there were other searchers who searched many places but you only searched one particular place as some here.

        Now Forrest comes out with the 200′ – 500′ comment. The searchers who searched multiple places on multiple dates & possibly from 2010-2012 in NM, CO, WY & MT have not got an edge from his statement.

        Those searchers that have only searched one place or maybe a couple of places overall, sent Forrest emails with pics are more likely to have an edge seeing they only have to go back to that one place & check a 500′ radius of there area.

        The math doesn’t add up in his statement.
        It gives an advantage to those that only made a search or 2 & let him know about it.
        Think about it…..

          • Yes Kira, It does make sense as a marketing strategy even though his wording changes thru time.
            He’s a good salesman for what he sold & sells.

            I also am thinking his 200′ – 500′ statements may have been about searchers that have been to many places from 2010-12 and not searchers that have only checked out a place or 2, they would have a considerable advantage.

  60. Knowledge of where the TC is can be communicated by a searcher to FF
    without directly just sending him an e-mail.

    By posting on one of these blogs, using special “secret messages” that FF would understand, he’d know that the searcher had solved quite a
    bit of (if not all of) the poem correctly.

    This is my opinion. Perhaps Jules Verne could have written a story
    about a similar search for something special.

  61. Forrest mentions Robin Olds book in TFTW… I finally got around to reading it, mostly at work, and I must say it’s a great book! As a person that seldom shows emotion, I must admit I got a little choked up at the end.

    Just thought I’d mention it in case anyone was interested… Happy hunting.

    TimM

  62. Seeker, after flipping channels and rewatching the remaining part of The Usual Suspects for the umteenth time, I think you should be nicknamed Verbal (aka Keyser Soze). You will be still talking as you go and pick up the treasure and “poof, like that, he’s gone.”
    Glad to see you back on the blog.

    • JBL,
      I never saw the movie… but, did you somehow call me a “yacker”? You do know I took fourth place for the most yacking a couple years ago [ here on Da’ls blog ]. Nothing wrong with trying to be first at something, right?

      Now I’m gonna have to rent the movie. Ya got me curious.

  63. Just an off topic rant about a fun app that’s new to me…
    It identifies trees, shrubs, mushrooms, wildflowers and all kinds of plants…even garden vegetables..

    If you are like many of us you see plants you can’t identify when out searching. This app can identify them instantly. It recognizes plants you photograph with your phone. It claims to have 90% of all known plants in it’s database….holy cow!!

    So you are out there with your kids clumping around and just noticed this three leaved plant your kid is in the middle of and you wonder if it’s Poison Ivy…snap a good pick of it and you know one of two things…It is…or it isn’t…
    See a wildflower and wonder what it’s name is…snap a good pic and your phone tells you what it is…

    If you aren’t connected to the internet you can save the pic and submit it later…

    This is sooooo much faster than paging through a plant ID book…
    I still carry plant ID books because the information about the plants in my books is much deeper than the PlantSnap app…

    But I love this app…
    It’s fast…It’s accurate..

    Great for wildflowers and tree leaves…
    I plan to try it out on mushrooms and mosses this year…

    It comes in both Apple and Android flavors. You can read about it here:
    https://plantsnap.com

    • Thank you very much Dal, At least I won’t break out in a rash brushing up against ivy. I wonder if it would be helpful in identifying edible plants just in case one has to spend a couple of days being lost and hungry.

      Thanks again

    • Dal, I have this app too and I love it. I use it whenever I am out in nature, or in a parking lot or even in my backyard. lol.

    • I downloaded the app as well. It was not able to identify my Apple, grape, lime or my cherry trees. Or the wild lettuce that grows in my area. Or even the passion vine. That’s zero for six. Thanks for sharing though Dal.

      • It identified my Bleeding Heart leaf without the blossom and my Plum blossom and an Alder catkin and Columbine leaf. It even identified a Rosemary plant. I am surprised it gave you naughts. Maybe your plants are from another planet…just a thought 🙂
        I did follow the explicit directions about photographs that it encourages users to follow.

  64. Yes Thank you for sharing Dal!
    I was thinking about this recently.
    Very helpful. Enjoy your Sunday afternoon.

      • @Patrick, nice man, looks like great time with your mom/family. I’ve stood on top of Tooth of Time twice as a scout in the early 70’s, brings back memoirs for sure.

  65. I think it may be very important to send a full solve to Forrest actually, and he may be reading them. He’s 87 remember and it’s very possible that our e-mails are helping him to remember where he hid it.

    • Sparrow (and everyone else),

      This is totally random, but my daughters were watching the Dreamworks animated series “Spirit Riding Free” — a spinoff of the movie “Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron”

      This episode was about a trapper that was looking for an old man (His name was Resparrow!) who died and left behind a cryptic map with a poem to help searchers find the treasure—at the risk of disturbing his ghost.

      This is bootlegged video I found, but it’s available on Netflx if you’re a subscriber (Spirit: Riding Free S01E03 – Lucky and the Mysterious Map)

      https://www.onitube.com/video/49084/spirit-riding-free-s01e03-lucky-and-the-mysterious-map

      I had fun watching this with my girls! There were so many similarities, I assumed someone at Dreamworks knows about Forrest’s treasure!

      P.S. Mr. Fenn, if you are reading this, I think Dreamworks owes you a few bucks 🙂

  66. I was wondering what everyone thought of the first stanza. I mean, it’s often overlooked but I was just curious how other people viewed it. Is it just meant to be an introduction? Is there information to be garnered from it?

    I have 3 ways I’ve looked at it.. and of course these ideas are my opinion.

    1, Forrest is describing himself going into the wilderness with his chest and he is basically telling everyone there is a secret hidden out there somewhere and you must find it with hints, etc…

    2, Forrest is referring to the autobiography and his spirit going into the chest, along with the treasure bold. Hints of new and old are the contents.

    3, Forrest is saying I’ve gone alone into a place but I’ve also taken my treasure to that place before, but his treasures are his family. He often spoke of taking his kids/grandkids to special places. Maybe the riches new and old are the experiences by the younger generations and his.

    That’s just a few thoughts on it. Like i said, I was just wondering what others think it means, if anything at all.

    Happy hunting, stay safe!

    TimM

    • Good Morning Tim;

      Since I see the clues as being in stanza’s 2.3 and 4, this means that I see stanza #1 as a hint.

      So, I have followed the clues as far as I can take them, and yet, have not yet found Indulgence. Since a hint will help one get closer to a clue, how can this stanza help?

      “As I have gone alone in there…” tells me that the final resting place for Indulgence is not out in the open. It is somehow hidden “IN” a place of some kind. I must look for a crevice, a miniature box canyon, or a “Niche” of some kind.
      “And with my treasures bold…” Forrest took “something” into this special “niche” – So what might these treasures be?

      As a boy, I was always making “Forts” in our back yard. These “Forts” were my “special places”. Places where I could hide my “Treasures” – you know – a special knife my uncle gave me – an old watch on a chain that my grandpa gave me (it never did keep good time) – a special “Code ring” that my buddy Delmar and I used to keep secret messages from my nosy sisters. – You know “THOSE” kinds of treasures. I see this place as a place that Forrest and Skippy found that was their Special Place that they went to to be away from Mom and Dad – A place that was “theirs alone.” A special place to hide their treasures…

      “I can keep my secret where…” This “special Place” will always remain deep within Forrest’s mind. Some searcher may, in time find it, but it will never be exactly as Forrest remembers it, because the “Finder” will find only the place, and not see the memories of this place that Forrest sees.
      Only Forrest knows “where” THIS special place lies.

      “And hint of riches new and old.” The “Finder” will “find” Indulgence (New treasure) but will never be able to “find” the true treasures – the “Old” memories that Forrest has of this place.

      If the “finder” has truly been able to unravel the hidden meanings of the poem, this person will have gained insight into some of the reasons that this place is important to Forrest, but not all. This place is important on many, many different levels. Geologic, geographic, historic, family, fun, fishing, exploration etc. We will never know ALL of the reasons why Forrest holds this place dear, but he has given us a few hints – Thanks Forrest!

      These are the hints that will disclose to the finder, just what to look for as he/she goes through the poem one last time…”Begin it ….” Just the musings of an old fool – JDA

      • Very nice JDA, you capture some key points and I think you have evolved in the right direction the past few years.

        • Thanks – I appreciate it. Not sure about the “evolution” part, but I am trying to gain a clearer perspective – again thanks – JDA

  67. Tim and JDA, both of your analogies are quite interesting, I have also had thoughts that stanza 1 is written in 3rd person as in the chest’s point of view.
    Stay safe in the chase,
    WDOR

    • Thank you for the post, ken. It appears some kind of important news may be coming in the near future.

      • Hi Windy City: the most recent one on Cynthia’s, dated yesterday (3/25). Specifically, this reply from Forrest: “I did not anticipate the media jumping on the story with such vigor. Two major articles coming out soon.”

      • “BLOG” – Unexpected Treasures found…
        Very end – “Forrest replied: I did not anticipate the media jumping on the story with such vigor. TWO MAJOR ARTICLES COMING OUT SOON.”

        JDA

        • I would say 1 is the book sales and that the cancer fund being used. Anyone want to try for the other?

        • “I did not anticipate the media jumping on the story with such vigor. Two major articles coming out soon.”

          LOL… lets have some fun and dissect this comment… What’s Soon???

          I need to call my stock broker and buy more stock in Xanax… I see a spike heading that way.

          • Good question Seeker. A recent quote was posted on a different subject, but here it is again: “You often say imagination is more important than knowlege. Using your imagination, what do you think your hidden ‘Treasure Chest’ would be saying, if it could talk? Do you think it likes where it is at? Is it enjoying the weather?
            Does it feel lonely? Is it anxious to be found? or just what might it be thinking?
            ~thanks, Jenny

            Jenny,
            Thanks for misspelling knowledge for me. I am sure the treasure chest relishes her guardianship of the rich objects that are concealed in her care, and over which she stands sentinel. They are still in hibernation, but will SOON waken as the SPRING WARMTH gestures for the Long Tailed Ermine to start turning back into weasels, and the bears start peeking out. I think the gold will again become alert to the tromp and vibrations of hiking boots. Are they hopefully anticipating? I don’t know”. f

            This was posted March 22, 2017 – almost one year ago – Talking about the upcoming spring/summer search – that most think begins mid may or early June -when nature “waken as the spring warmth” flows over the land – dependent on snow fall of the winter.

            So, can we say that “Soon” = mid May or early June? Just a guess – JDA

          • One of the stories will be called MAJOR BUMMER! someone found the chest! which hopefully will be later this year! IMO

          • Actually PD, I was having some fun thinking how some could only think this is absolutely the end… major breaking new the chest was retrieve, idea.
            I have no real feelings about what “soon” or anything about the comment would be about… I’ll just wait calmly to whatever it is, keep thinking about the poem, and still try and pull it altogether.
            Ya can’t count the chicken before the eggs hatch, right?

          • JDA, Kira,
            Just for fun, and keeping my thoughts at hand… “soon” would be mid June 2018…depending on type of media’s availability time-line.
            But as i said to PD, I’m not holding my breath nor slowing down in the challenge. My question was only for my own amusement.

  68. Jeez…I watched the video and thought it was great….until those folks went into the mine! I have seen a slew of searcher vids with the same types of risky behavior while out and about. Just thinking…probably not a real wise thing to do.

    • I concur. Richard Eeds Radio Show, 9/14/15, minute mark 27:53:

      Mr. Fenn: ‘Well, I’ll give you a clue. The treasure’s not in a mine or in a tunnel. Please stay out of those things, they’re dangerous.’

    • That was my video. You probably didn’t notice, but it stated in the video that we took a side trip to search for a letterbox, not for Fenn’s treasure when we went into that mine. We know the treasure isn’t in a mine.

      • Hello Patrick. Thank you for clarifying. It’s greatly appreciated. I certainly wouldn’t have had the guts to go into a mine.

      • I knew you were not looking in the mine for Fenn’s loot…per your video. It is still risky behavior to go in abandoned mines no matter what. There are gases, viruses, snakes, risk of collapse… not to mention a host of other issues. Some of those issues are outside of mines nearby…such as overgrown ventilation shafts, or other openings.
        Also probably not smart to even show that segment for risk of new folks getting bad ideas….take it or leave it type advice.

        • Good advice. It may have looked more dangerous than it was. Also, being from Florida and never being one, it was hard to resist. You make a good point. The letterbox was actually just outside the mine and my curiosity got the best of me since I’ve never been in one before. But, overall, good advice and my apologies as I did not intend to suggest doing dangerous things while searching. In fact, I had my 79 year old father with me. What better litmus test than don’t go where a 79-80 person couldn’t go.

  69. This place makes me feel like a crippled ant in an elephant parade. I’ve been checking the poem out since 7-2016 and I’m still as confused as ever. I haven’t got a clue what’s going on. All I know is that I’m going to Montana soon– gonna be a dental floss tycoon.

      • Covert—

        Forrest actually invented that phrase in one of his SB’s. lol. I’m not sure, but I think it may be in the one where he asks Major Spicer if he can fly his jet.

    • Sparrow- ask me anything. i can fill you in on whatever questions you may have.
      go ahead little dude, try me.

      go Jayhawks!

      • Ok dodo— when I ask what the greatest question is, am I asking the greatest question?

        • Sparrow- yes you are. and the greatest question you can ask as pertains to the thrill of the chase, is this….(drumroll here)

          FORREST FENN: Are the romanesque bronze box as pictured in your book TTOTC, and the chest mentioned in the poem from the chapter Gold and More, the same thing?

          this is the greatest question. dont assume you know the answer Sparrow.

          • IMO – The answer is – NO.
            In the poem – the Chest is your actual physical chest.

          • Lone Aspen;

            I agree – “Just take the chest and go in peace” = Just take your chest (Yourself) and go in peace knowing that you have solved either one of the steps (or all of the steps) in solving the riddle. JMO – JDA

  70. I literally just laughed out loud when I read this – Thanx for the guffaw Lugnutz!

    Lugnutz on January 3, 2018 at 10:54 am said:

    And please, please for the love of Forrest, we have seen enough “clever” ways of subscribing using subxxx…

    A good thing to do is simply comment on what’s been said right above or compliment somebody.

    Looking good Goofy!

  71. Tim, you wrote this:
    “Tim (ZosoRocks) on January 6, 2018 at 9:34 am said:

    :O)

    Buddhist, Hindu, Christian, Jewish, Coptic, Baptist, Orthodox Jew or Christian, etc…..etc…..etc……the list goes on and on. Names to keep people separated and not in unity.

    All have similarities in belief, people just prefer to stay separate and exclusive.”

    And this a little further down the thread: “Tim (ZosoRocks) on January 6, 2018 at 9:20 am said:

    Hi JDA.

    Of course you can be critical of what I say…..I encouraged it many years ago. Very few are.

    In fact, be very critical of my thinking…..because I will of yours.

    And in turn, I expect you to be critical of your own workings of the poem. I am of mine.”

    So, if a searcher “believes” he is correct on a point concerning a clue in their search for Indulgence, which is obviously in error, is your advice towards this searcher to be, a) it really doesn’t matter, or b) we need to set them straight using reason?

    Really, this is not a trick question. I’m just trying to figure out which of these two diverging points you really adhere to. I suspect the latter from other context on this site. And if that is so, perhaps you should not be so dismissive about things you do not know as much about, and to use that critical mind of yours to investigate whether or not there is merit in any religion. It is my opinion that many folks do not take the time to investigate for themselves, simply spouting what others have told them down through the years and that they wished were true. Feel free to contact Dal or Goofy to get my e-mail to take this conversation off the board. I’m just calling you on your bluff.

  72. Sswot…if I may chime in. Perhaps you aren’t aware that Tim very recently lost his wife of many years. Please join the community in offering your condolences and prayers to him in what must be a very difficult time.

    • Definitely unaware, as I have been reading posts from months ago. I meant no harm and no foul. Hopefully, he can find solace some place for his loss. It is hard to lose those we love.

  73. Anyone (dal) have any new info on the timing or publication/ source for ff ‘s new articles?

  74. Aaron posted this:
    “Aaron on January 17, 2018 at 8:36 am said:

    Cynthia, it is certainly debatable what clue 2 is, whether it is CD or TFTW. Knowing that, and that FF said searchers didn’t have the clues in the right order it seems possible that they may be stopping at some logical stopping point, skipping a clue and walking past the treasure. I do not know how to make sense of getting clues out of order otherwise. Unless of course if they are not supposed to be solved in the order they are in the poem. Clues could theoretically be contiguous and not be in the order of the poem. The definition of contiguous is sharing a common border; touching. I can think of ways this definition can be true without clues being in the exact order.”

    Aaron, and any others wanting “to look over my shoulder”, so to speak, this is something I have been pondering, literally, for years. Allow me to put forth an analogy: let’s say the poem is represented by a bucket. Inside the bucket are the clues, let’s make them fish. What if one of the clues is the water? That would allow for all the fish to be contiguous within the bucket and yet not “touching” each other. This is perhaps not a perfect analogy, but it gets across the point I have been pondering for a long time. What if there is an “encompassing clue” that all the other clues somehow reside inside of, and yet is identifiable as a separate entity? Yeah, it definitely takes some imagination and thinking outside the box, but the linear “western” way of thinking so far has not produced squat (well, except for some tarry scant elsewhere on the site – 🙂 ). It is my growing suspicion, conviction and opinion that the solution lies within the person that can “wrap their head around” a more “all encompassing” solution to the nine clues. A big picture view, so to speak. The person that solves this quest will be the one that can step back and take a good hard look at the poem and see it “all at once”, not pieces to be dissected to see how they fit together.

    • This could be true swoot, especially when you consider that FF talks about nailing the first clue and not skipping ahead. Think about how you would write a poem so that skipping to future clues, like HoB would not be useful.

  75. HaydukeCC on January 18, 2018 at 7:59 pm said:

    “Charlie,

    Excellent point. I need to remember to bring some from my mountain bikes for next time I am up there.

    Last time we were off exploring where we had heard a Griz and cubs had been sighted, we sang dorky songs really loud the whole time. I am thinking The Carpenters or something like that. LOL”

    I did laugh out load when I read this – thanx HaydukeCC! Mostly, because we all know that Pink Floyd attracts the Grizzlys.

  76. I’m so far behind I’ll never catch up. I’m new to the quest and trying to search out all the clues in the order they were released. I have the poem, ordered the book and still so lost, wish I had Google Earth here to find the treasure or my way back home.

      • Thank You Kira as I thought by all the posts I’ve been reading that it was only me. I have ordered the book “TTOTC” a few days ago and can’t wait to begin reading it.
        Have a good day.
        Raven

        • Raven

          My take is Stay away from blogs and videos and devolope your own sense of what it says before entering these zones to prevent others bias from impacting you.

          I would encourage you to do as Fenn instructed.
          Read the poem. Read the book. Memorize the poem and read the vook again picturing the poem as you read.

          then look around to see what others may say.

          Also google is great when you have a location, enter the location with forrest fenn ie, brown hole forrest fenn and see what comes up. There is many many many locations that hits like this.

          Happy wakeful nights thinking.

          • LOL Kira, already have wake full nights. Yes I agree about the blog as it hinders your own perspective on the matter. Trying to find FF’s statements about the treasure in order of release date taking some time. Jotting down ideas as I search them out. Ty for your input.

            Have a great day
            Raven Horse

          • Yes Marcelo I agree. I think you have to know or understand the person a bit before you can decipher any of the clues.

            “TTOTC” arrived this afternoon so tomorrow I plan to read it making mental notes.

            In any event, it the thrill of trying anyway.

            HAGD,
            Raven Horse

    • Raven…let me help here. being a newbie, your first mistake is seeking the treasure. look for the chest, as described in the poem.

      i think.

          • Im surprises there jasnt been any before. The cost to feed gerbil powered servers isnt cheap.

        • It’s all good as far as I’m concerned…
          I started my Chase 2011…but did not use Dal’s blog until Feb. 2013. I would consider a one time donation as an “Entertainment” expense to help keep it current. Jeez…I could probably write it off too!

          • Ken, we added ads to offset the expense of hosting the site and the videos on Vimeo. As Kira mentioned, the cost of the servers is not cheap and the ads will help support keeping the blog running and up-to-date. As little as we get per click, we’re hoping that it will help at least pay for the hosting.

            We’re also looking at adding some additional features to the site and improving the navigation and organization. If anyone has any suggestions, please let us know. Thanks!

          • Perhaps ads relates to metal detectors, shovels, pickaxe, and or backhoes could be helpful for more clicks… if you must fly fishing and hiking for the yuppies.

            Dal once did offer to sell his maps too, I prefer if it jas an x to go to.

          • Yes, there is money earned on click through. Folks earn a little when someone clicks through and purchases from under vids on youtube, I know that.

            Like there could be a link under Jeremy’s post about how to look (search) like Jeremy. Link to a hat or some Eagle’s Nest soup!

          • Chris—–

            I think Kira is right—-metal detectors, shovels, etc–and fly fishing stuff. psychologist and psychiatrists might also want to advertise. 🙂

          • It might even force an answer from FF that backhoes, pickaxes and shovels aren’t needed.

            As to mental health services, why does everyone keep on suggesting that I need those? (accompanied by the sound of meds being hidden in the back of the medicine cabinet)

          • Chris;

            First off – Thanks for all of the improvements you have made.

            What NEW improvements?
            1) Let a poster go back and correct a typo. No one else can amend a post, but the poster can correct a mistake.
            2) A “Global search” of current and/or recent posts – I know that “George” posted something interesting about “ABC” yesterday or the day before. I currently have to go to every thread F3 it for his name or subject and MAY find it if it has not been archived – too hard to find now.
            3) You have “Searchers in NM” – Searchers in Colo” – You combine WY and MT – with Yellowstone included. I would like to see Montana and Wyoming separated, and a separate YNP section.
            Add a permanent “Log” to each (or a separate Log place where a searcher can say – I search in this state. Or, I search in YNP.)

            Thanks again for all of your effort. JDA

          • I would exlude 1 and add a spellchecker. Im too dyslexic to see my errors.
            Wehn pelope can uedntanrsd tihs, crorcet sellpnig deson’t mtaetr.

            I wouldnt want to see a discussion then someone goes back and chanhe thier mind, which then skews the topic.

          • Hi Chris, I think a site map would be nice for navigation. The map could list all of the running blog subject matter and link to each individually. For example if you click on “The Nine Clues” in the map it takes you to the current and archived lists of the nine clues.

            Also, I’m not sure what you are working with here but if it is possible to make it more responsive so that it is easier read on the resolution of a phone then that would be nice. I have some experience with UI if you want any help.

          • Thanks Aaron, those are some great suggestions. Currently, the site is on the Twentyeleven WordPress theme. We might update the theme coming up here soon, so I might take you up on that offer. 😉

          • Ah yes, a newer theme would do the trick. I’ve built a few WordPress sites and know HTML 5 and CSS3. Just let me know if there is anything I can do. Very appreciative for you and Dal keeping this thing running!

          • @Chris E, are you really Goofy? lol! Saw my first ad last night, thought it was just my puter acting up! Not much concern with ads as everyone is so sure the TC will be found before f’s next BD!

          • @Dal, if you got an offer to market your entire site it wouldn’t bother me! Take the money and run! It’s been great fun being a part of hoD and checking-in, sharing etc. I learned a few things from the Chase and one is to speak with ‘specificity’ when talking! Thanks Forrest!

          • Dal, Have you considered a Pay pal link for donations to support funding the board?

            Semper Fi,

            Windy City

          • Chris,

            The improvement is the navigational speed is great. So if nothing else were done to improve, it would be fine by me. I think the work that was done recently was a huge improvement and saves time for those posting here.

            Now, can you slow it down for those just lurking!

            Covert One

          • Chris Eckman…you have done a fantastic job getting the site operating smoothly! Thanks…Call me old-fashioned…I’m happy just having the opportunity.

  77. I have a question for the audience. Forrest was 79 or 80 when he hid Indulgence. Who/What is the oldest active, boots on the ground searcher? I know my Dad was 79, actively using a metal detector and digging holes and clearing bushes looking for the treasure. Anyone know of anyone who was older than that?

    • That’s awesome Patrick. This is a great activity for young and old….keeps the mind spinning and getting out in the mountains!

    • Patrick.. i hold the distinction of being the oldest searcher at 366 years old. i was just 10 when my flock got wiped out. although i dont put boots on the ground. in fact boots on the ground is what i seek. where heels high.

      i think.

  78. Somewhat off topic,
    Has anyone discussed pages 99 and 100 in TFTW. When Forrest jumps from the cliff to the tree on page 99 his right boot is clearly detailed. On page 100 at the bottom left is a drawing of what appears to the right boot as if the person is laying on his back. Looks like Forrest put it in there as a joke or maybe he missed the jump and fell. If so, maybe the tree limbs helped to break the fall as he never talked about getting hurt from the jump.
    I cannot connect the page 100 boot to help with my solution, so I moved on from the drawing. But it still intrigues me.
    There’s a bunch of little drawings and pictures, I see them as hints, throughout his books.

    • Somewhere long ago this was discussed in some detail. Also…if you study the picture it is noticeable… that as a whole it is a partial mirror image combined. Perhaps…done to take up more page space?

  79. Some of the ads that I’ve seen are interesting; first one was something for the CIA. Second one I saw was for Speedo.com( Dal maybe). Third one was for RIU…hotels in Jamaica, which sounds pretty nice about now.
    Fenn has made a few comments about advertising. Sometimes it seems that advertising is running a good portion of the world these days. SAFETY equipment ads may be a good one to promote here. Next thing you know…the Travel Agencies are gonna want in!

    • Search area HOTSPOTS in the various states have local Chamber of Commerce offices. I’m sure the businesses have benefitted from the Chase…selling their wares and services. That is about as good as it gets for advertising potential.

    • Funny I haven’t seen any adds. I only use the bookmark in my browser on my computer and iPad. Maybe that’s a good thing.

  80. Pinatubocharlie on January 27, 2018 at 9:29 am said:

    “RB,

    It think you and other searchers are missing one important possibility regarding the little girl from India.

    “Can a little girl in India, who speaks good English, but only has your poem and a map of the US Rocky Mountains, work out where the treasure is?”

    Since she only has a map of the RMs, there is a very good chance that some of the clue answers lie outside the RMs, so she needs another map.”

    Pinatubocharlie, In my opinion, I think you are close – but no cigar. With what I posted yesterday about the fish in the bucket, what if Mr. Fenn was trying to tell us the reason the Little Girl in India cannot get closer than the first two clues with only a map and the poem is because the other 7 clues have no direct ties to any map? Saying it a bit more plainly, could it be that there are only two map points given in the poem? I know this opinion may make some searchers heads explode, because they are convinced that there are 9 points on a map someplace in the world that will lead them to Indulgence. I am no longer convinced this is true. At least from a before the points are discovered point of view. It may be that after the fact, that there will be 9 points to put on a map, but that they are the clues there before we searchers head into the woods is questionable, in my opinion.

    • Swwot,

      Without going into specifics as it would give away too much, I have very good reasons for making that suggestion, but I make no claims that I am correct in that assessment.

      That being said, it remains one of the possibilities a prudent searcher should consider, because to my knowledge f has never said ALL of the clues are in the RMs, so that leaves the door open that my theory COULD be correct, as could yours.

      Take care………Pinatubocharlie

      • Pinatubocharlie, I think we’re on the same wavelength – we both think not all the clues are in the Rockies. Where we diverge it seems is that you are of the opinion that they are all points on maps and I do not.

        Good luck on your search!

        • swwot,

          I’m still working on answers to the clues, but right now, yeah, I’m thinking they are points on a map, but not necessarily one of the RMs. Again, I’m simply trying to keep my options open.

          And since were talking about points, IMO the starting point is right there in the poem. Poem hints and “a good understanding” of the key word, underscore a good understanding, will help guide you there.

          Good luck to you too.

          Pinatubocharlie

    • swwot, Pinatubocharlie,

      You both have good reasoning to fenn’s answer that Q&A.
      There can be many logical assumptions… a few, you two have mentioned. Another, she or anyone else can not get “closer” [compared to many searchers posting that she can not “get passed the second clue”] then they already are at this location [ meaning all the clues and the chest’s location ]

      But, like any of fenn’s posted Q&A’s from searchers… they give us ideas to ponder. The attempt is, to come up with the most likely scenario to what fenn may have intended, rather than, what we hope the Q&A stated to make ‘our present solve work’…
      I mean, if you already have a solve that requires a full state or outside the known states involved, you may only summit to the idea of that possibility so it doesn’t hurt your solve you have at the time of the Q&A.
      The same can be said for the idea no one can get ‘closer’ to the ‘location’ because you may have a solve that has all the clues very close.

      It’s really bias 101 if you only look at the Q&A’s [ and other info ] with eye only on your personal solution and how it can work for that.

      I also think … not you guys personally… a lot of folks only use certain comments, Q&A’s etc. that only appear to help what they hope for their solve, and dismiss the others, by saying things like; fenn only tells 85% of the truth or that’s your interpretation and not mine. The latter is a horrible excuse imo. [ well both examples, are ridiculous in my mind to be honest ] But the latter says to me someone is only posting for bragging rights and not actually attempt to see all side… without using related comments from fenn. LOL [ I bet a few just fell off their chairs at that comment, from me ].

      The point is; yacking with others [ like you two are ] there needs to be some check and balance offered. Most of the time that falls back to many, if not most, of fenn’s comments to show a full process of thought, and not just one idea from one single Q&A.
      My example will be Walk vs. Drive or searcher vs. tourist etc… It doesn’t matter what anyone thoughts are, what is needed [imo] is a full balance of what we have to date [fenn’s comments] to work out the most logical possibilities… without one’s ‘own solve’ to be the major influence to the discussion.

      Swwot said ~ ‘…I know this opinion may make some searchers heads explode, because they are convinced that there are 9 points on a map someplace in the world that will lead them to Indulgence. I am no longer convinced this is true…’
      This tells me that swwot has and still is attempting to figure out possibilities rather than fantasy regardless of where in the past, they thought clues were or where in any give scenario/idea/theory. Because, we always get more info as the years go on, and we need to adjust to them as well.

      Pinatubocharlie said ~’…That being said, it remains one of the possibilities a prudent searcher should consider, because to my knowledge f has never said ALL of the clues are in the RMs,… Exactly… you have taken the idea of what has not been stated and not concluded your personal solve into the equation, and dismiss things that have been stated either.

      Nice chat guys… enjoyed the conversation… even if you disagree, you represented well and gave some good responses.

      • Seeker,

        Speaking for myself, you have me pegged. I do not have a “solve” yet, because I have not found “the solution” to the poem. I suspect I am in a small camp of searchers that thinks the whole poem solved will lead a searcher directly to Indulgence with confidence. And by that, I do not mean I have “solved” all nine clues. I mean wholistically (intentional misspelling) – that there is an over-arching “reason”, for lack of a better word, to the poem. “Some people cannot see the forest for the trees.” It is my opinion that many have become experts in parts of Fenn-dom, but have missed the point. And I mean no disrespect to anyone with that statement. Mainly, because I would not be as far along in my own understanding of what Mr. Fenn has done for us all if others had not shared what they had found. With all my being, I strongly suspect that collectively, we’ve missed the boat. But, it is simply my opinion. Until I, or someone else has Indulgence in their possession, we’re all speculators and/or spectators.

        Thank you for your kind words,

      • I like the premise that it is important to keep the cart behind the horse. An open mind is more apt to notice other possibilities and so adapt or adjust. The concept of being [bias -free] while working through the poem is easier said than done… especially with the massive amount of noise produced from the volumes of available info. While some of the ATF’s, SB’s, videos etc. from Fenn can help to see how he operates…a large portion of it all is totally open to interpretation and subjective at best. His safety tips and such are pretty much factoids because he presented them as such. Sifting through other comments from him and tallying them for consistency could be a strong pointer to possibilities as well…but betting the bank is risky.
        My reboot last year, after six mind stretching years of mental gymnastics has brought me full circle to where I should have stayed in the early days of the Chase. Keep to the basics…poem, his original book(TTOTC), and my natural propensity to look at really good maps. Who knows where that will lead now…but I respect comments like the ones represented from swwot, ptcharlie, and seeker’s follow up. Nothing is set in concrete in this Chase…unless it’s your own feet because you think you have the perfect solve before actually touching Indulgence. All just pinions here…and happy hunting to all.

        • Ken;

          You hit the nail on the head with these words – ” Nothing is set in concrete in this Chase…unless it’s your own feet because you think you have the perfect solve before actually touching Indulgence.” Truer words were never spoken. Each day I try to hone my solve – a little tweak here, a little tweak there – Always looking for that comment by someone that lights a flame in this old noggin – Best of luck to all and TRY to STAY SAFE out there, when boots are finally put on the ground – JDA

      • I too appreciate the kind words Seeker. Thank you much.

        I try to stay open-minded (within reason) to other methods and insight and I’m not shy about changing course when necessary. Cynthia’s HoB not being a structure comment from f was a setback for sure, but in hindsight it was for the best, assuming of course my new and still developing understanding of the poem is correct.

        Had I been stubborn and not accepted that surprise comment, I may have never made my poem discoveries, though I must say, my previous solution (now Plan B) was rock solid IMO in more ways than one,

        Thank you again for the kudos.

        Pinatubocharlie

    • Guys,

      I just want to throw something in regarding the little girl from India, RM’s map and the poem conversation…

      Previously, I have stated that I thought it is was fairly remarkable that the little girl could get to with in possibly 200 feet of the treasure (in theory) by solving the first 2 clues (if you are someone who is in the 200-500 feet camp in just two clues).

      However, something occurred for me about the RM’s map??? I mean, what RM’s map? To what detail is this ‘said’ RM’s map?
      From the actual question:
      “but only has your poem and a map of the US Rocky Mountains,”

      She didn’t say the poem and Google Earth or some other specific map, so are we to believe or logically assume, Forrest took this question as a reference to the map in TFTW?

      Because otherwise there is really no knowable level of details in this hypothetical RM’s map…

      GCG

      • GCG,
        If we are talking about the map… a few things seem fair to say.
        1. “US” ~ Rm’s vs. ALL the range. In this thought and adding a few other comments for collaboration, such as; there are Many wwh and nearly all are N of SF… Could it be that all those references, to fenn’s WWH, include, all within the entire range, Canda’s RM’s as well and those below SF > and bring it to a location where clue two is needed? { again, the thought of; how many clues can give up answer? }

        The idea would be, something revolving around the geographical location of the range and it’s affect on a number of things… Plants, Animals, Water supplies, Weather, Woodland, Plans, Deserts etc etc. I mean, if those mountains never existed, those states and beyond would be very different, right? { a comprehensive knowledge of Geography ‘might’ help }
        2. The idea of GE not being mentioned doesn’t really have much of an impact to the answer… fenn’s other comment referred to “GE ‘and/or’ a good map” and another comment about the “right map”… Apparently GE is a tool that can do both [ be a good and right mapping], but is not needed IF one of the other maps is the map fenn refers to. So we agree on that.
        But I have to ask… What details are most important-?- in any of those options.
        3. Personally, I think it’s risky to assume, fenn assume the question to be anything… I don’t think it’s in his nature to presume what an other ‘might’ mean. But answers to how the question is asked… similar to his comment to the classroom Q&As.

        So, lets go back to the 500′ idea for the first two clues.. and.. the idea that WWH could possibly be the CD/watershed/impacting the ‘big picture idea’… rather than a single stand alone water[s].
        Could it be the reason why those who deciphered the first two clues didn’t know they did because, they got to the location by the correct canyon, but not truly ‘understood’ where they were… or why-?- and still mentioned the correct wwwh.
        This line of thinking might give credence why wwh needs to be nailed down [to “the” one wwwh in conjunction ‘the’ one canyon]… and, it might involve how the other clues work together, rather than, just places to stomp to, and why the next clue or clues seems to allude all.
        Another-words, just how contiguous are all the clues to each other -?- IF this [thought] was to be the big picture idea.

        LOL even with a map of the RM’s with the most simplest of details… anyone Should/could be able to locate a place with just the first two clues, BUT without the entire range understood… the message is lost somehow?
        I mean, fenn did say no special knowledge [ comment], and he had no expectation [ imo meaning; he wouldn’t know what others might know or not ] Then said; knowledge of geography ‘might’ help… Seem’s there’s a bit of a conflict, to what we think special knowledge is to what fenn refers to it.

        If we are attempting to understand the “little Indy Q&A” we need other comments to align with it as well. So, in MDavis Q&A about special knowledge, Mdavis gave specific types of knowledge, Military for example, Training, Piloting an aircraft etc. These in my mind would required special knowledge and training, and not all have been in those situations… but we all should have knowledge of geography, at least some, through learning in our schools…

        LOL, dang, it’s tough trying to type out a thought, with 8 years of info to assist as check and balances, and still keep it under a novel size response.

        • Seeker, In less than a novel size response, I like that, and likewise from me when I choose to reply. The little girl from Indy can’t get closer than the first two clues due to the time of the season imo. Note the time of year the Q+A was done.

          • Afana,
            I don’t think Forrest generally answers questions with the specific time of year in mind unless he specifically states it — as he has done in regards to searching in winter. He has even re-enforced this thought with his answers to the chest “being wet.” It wasn’t dependent on the season but physics…

            Seeker as to all your thoughts on ‘LIG’ & the RM’s map.
            1) I don’t think Canadian Rockies or any of the Rockies below Santa Fe have any impact on the poem. I believe as others have commented, that the important detail to know relative to solving the poem’s clues, is that the clues are bound by the Rockies, north of Santa Fe – this narrows the northern hemisphere search and the map in TFTW stops at the US border so this bounds the upper limit (IMO – please note I’m aware of discussions which suggest that some clues may be outside the map area in TFTW and I feel this wouldn’t be in the spirit of a treasure hunt and this chase)…

            2) My comment about GE was only an example of a map choice which we know has nearly unlimited details versus some vague reference to some unspecified theoretical US Rockies Map with no idea of detail level. This is important because it either suggest the first two clues can be determine with ANY generic map of the RM’s or gives us nothing.

            3) I agree, Forrest seems to read most questions very literally or he will actually state the underlying question he believes the question is asking and then choose to answer or “pass” on answering (as examples of past responses, he has even lightly chastised questioners for the underlying nature of the question asked i.e. “C’mon now agent 777, a map is a map. The more detailed maps are most useful if you have the right map, but I’m not sure I needed to tell you that.”).

            As to the idea of WWWH being the continental divide – I would only challenge you (other than it being an interesting idea, similar to the Golf of Mexico being WWWH) – what in the poem or in the book TToTC would lead you to make this a credible interpretation of the clues? Verses pure assumption?

            GCG

          • GCG, Thank you for your reply. Please consider not asserting yourself in thinking you know how Mr. Fenn thinks, or his rationale when he answers any question.

          • Afana,

            BTW – Just so you know, I went back and looked at the entire Feb 4, 2016 ” Six Questions with Forrest.”

            It’s interesting, the larger context of the question was:
            “many people, (even in the US) might be deterred because they don’t live near the Rockies or can’t afford to travel. Should they be deterred?”

            And Forrest later said to Dal, at a later date:
            “It might just as well have been a boy from Waxahatchee, where my father was born, or an Arab kid from Marrakech,”

            Or even as he ends his answer to the question:
            “many disabled people who are deeply into maps and geography, and they are having a lot of fun.”

            Apparently having access to the Rocky Mountains and resources that exceed just a map of the Rocky Mountains are necessary in order to find the treasure.

            But regardless you can still enjoy the chase regardless…

            GCG

          • GCG,
            Good question. Assumption vs. interpretation. [ unfortunately, some assumption is needed before even considering how to interpret ].

            For the CD to represent WWH, the poem needs to be read as a whole [contiguous] and not individual points. In this case, the clues are not a point to point, as much as, [someone stated earlier ] a “what am I” [ I like that perspective ]

            Now, we need to interpret what the clues refer to ~ each other ~ with geography and landscape in mind. [ because that is what they seem to be about, right?]
            For example; Some think NPFTM must mean; scary or difficult or a place not to go to. Some even stated idea’s of breaking laws, trespassing for example

            In this theory, NPFTM is the same as hoB, yet two different places that connect… They symbolize two countries and two half’s of the RM range [ Canada side, USA side][brown capped for that reason, not unlike the Bald Eagle, when used in this manner]
            So NPFTM would refer to the USA section of the range {Home of the Brave}. The geographical idea is, the CD connection to the range as the watershed ~ WWWH, Now we need a canyon, right? The canyon that connects to the correct wwh out of the many.

            In this theory the first two clues are WWWH and Canyon Down to produce a location… that is below Canada On the CD, In the USA [ four remaining states ] related to the range and it’s watershed… the clues are still in order.. because we need to understand the whole before it’s parts. The opposite of what most seem to be doing… the “adjustment” suggestion?

            This, in theory, produces the correct WWH location “nailed down” out of the many. But without the understanding of how the Mt range fits in as a whole, you wouldn’t understand why the location of the correct first two clues must work together for a spot, and how parts of the poem’s later clue’s references helped… for the poem to become a conclusion as a whole, and not just individual pieces.

            That… What am I, idea.
            IF you want subtle hints from the book as possible confirmations… “my church is the mountains and along the river bottom… where dreams and fantasies alike go to play”
            The connection seems to imply fenn’s play-land. The connection of the “mountains” to the “waters” and possibly his rainbow.

            But without imagination… all one may read to that is… In the mountains N. of SF. and they only look for a single location of WWH first and for most, and hopes, it connects the rest of the clues as points to point and stomping mode searching.
            That’s guessing, a dart toss, manufacturing WWH, because of being fixated on finding the blaze/chest… before understanding the poem as a whole.

            But I do have concerns about this idea… one being, Why would fenn have to “follow” the clues when he hid the chest? before the poem was complete (completed?)

            Anyways… the idea is; to locate, understand, nail down WWH [ the one out of the many ]… we need an understanding of the poem before we can make connection of how deciphered clue ‘references’ working together as ‘all’ the ‘ingredients’ to produce the correct desired outcome.
            fenn gave us the ingredients… we need to bake the cake… line of thinking. Some may say this is over complicating… I say; this is simplifying the idea of how fenn may have intended us to read the poem.

            You stated in another post that the book confirms a clue… I disagree… if you mean individual clues.
            I think the book works more as an overall ‘idea’ to read the poem the way fenn sees the poem…
            Mountains, environment [environmentalist], river bottoms etc. equates to ‘Geography might help’… What map with the right details, and the right map for a correct smaller location.

            [possible hint? ‘Forrest Fire’ [lol] and a story in the book. fenn lol actually burned a forest]

            All theoretical, but it gives a different perspective on how the poem could be read.

          • The riddle concept mentioned by a few has a lot of merit. Knowing that Fenn made a far reaching earlier comment excluding the premise of a riddle…then much later stating that the poem was a riddle…admittedly get one thinking about that. I think it is worth mentioning that most complex riddles introduced through stories…or other literary techniques were not posed as questions. It is noteworthy that riddles morphed over time to include a question because most folks never even realized there was a hidden riddle while reading. Perhaps this idea justifies Fenn’s later statement. One to make folks understand that the poem will solve itself if the reader uses the poem as a whole instead of busting it into small individual concepts. The individual concepts/ideas feed the overall. Like the mysterious ball of string…that first little string is encased by the many tied together…to finally become the much bigger ball. By unraveling piece by piece, that first string is revealed….

          • Ken,
            I like your post’s concept over all.

            But I would need to look up the quote again, Didn’t fenn say [ recalling from memory ]
            A riddle in the poem? or was it like you said ~
            ‘… then much later stating that the poem was a riddle…’

            The idea that the question in the poem as a ‘riddle’ was a thought i had in the past that knowing the answers provided gave up the location, if we could figure it out correctly. Which also implied the idea that the poem has “all the ‘information’ to find the chest” to include where the clues are at, without throwing darts…

            The idea of;
            “WhatIF” being/meaning… what if I told you, but you’re not seeing it, and are looking outside the box for the answers.

            Now I’m gonna need to look that quote up again… thanks.

          • He did state that he was wanting folks to get “back in the box” in another statement.

          • Seeker…he does say “riddle in my poem”. I believe there is a specific reason that the question is posed later(5th stanza) in the poem. That said…I believe the overall answer to the riddle is one that requires working through all of the poem to answer…which gives a site specific area to apply to the clues…starting with the first one.

          • MC,
            How small is that map?
            GE brings me right to my front door and/or shows my home and/or property by zooming in.
            The idea of ‘ you need the “right map” of a smaller area.’ would have to be a “very” small location/map

            I think the idea of the quote was meant as; you can not see the last clue [ assuming the blaze ] as many say they can in their solves… a very large bolder, 1600′ of snow, and island/patch of land in the middle of a river, an entire mountain side with a huge cross… as some have thought.

            Then again, we are really not sure IF the blaze is the last clue… but it is a logical assumption it would be.

          • When Forrest used Mountain Man Wisdom
            he looked east.

            In the poem if you are wise (look east) “And” find (“look for”, not “see”) Blaze.

            Quick looking down is not clue. It’s an order of movement.

            If Blaze is the last clue and can not be seen on GE then Blaze can only be identified on the spot.

            If researchers who were in the first and second clue were 200 feet from the chest, and did NOT see the BLAZE (a thing that “catches the eye”!) Then the clues search area is definitely small.

            Something like a local tour guide. Yellowstone i.e. have many.

          • Seeker,

            This: “The idea of;
            “WhatIF” being/meaning… what if I told you, but you’re not seeing it, and are looking outside the box for the answers.”

            Yep, that’s my dilemma in a nutshell. Hidden in plain sight.

          • Marcelo – a local tour guide will not be able to assist in this instance. If they could, they may retire from the tour guide business.

          • (Second try)
            Seeker,

            This: “The idea of;
            “WhatIF” being/meaning… what if I told you, but you’re not seeing it, and are looking outside the box for the answers.”

            This is my dilemma. Hidden in plain sight.

          • Swott,
            That’s what a riddle is.
            Whether verbal or written… Plain Site, idea.

            The question would be, could the poem be this way… clues in consecutive order [ say 9 line contain 9 clues, hence, the reason fenn state the number of clues ] and later in the poem, he wants you to know where to locate the clues, but doesn’t want to simply hand it to you.

            Would that possibility / theory be considered “a clue” IF it’s right there, in front of all to read; that could say… here is where you need to be if you can figure out the riddle answers?

            I could say both; it should be considered a clue because it gets us to where we need to be at.
            And argue it’s not a clue, because the clues allow you to get closer to the chest’s hidey spot. The location is nothing more than, where to start the clues and deciphering the clues.

            So it stands to reason; we need to nail down the first clue by ‘knowing’ where to start. LOL, then another question arises… does knowing where, by those answers, have anything else to do with solving the poem?

            One example I have given in the past is the Medicine Wheel. The catch here is we might need to use the wheel in some shape or form… and that would be a reason [ in theory ] fenn could have offered the location up in the question.

            Yep, one dilemma could be we need o observe on site, AND, ‘observe’ in the poem itself. Plain Site, no excuses for guessing and hunches, idea.

          • Hi Marcelo: agree that it is the size/scope of L’il Indy’s map (and therefore its lack of fine details) that prevents her from being able to solve more than the first two clues. Some will quibble that if she has a map of the Rockies, she can acquire a map of whatever detail she needs. But that’s now how Jenny posed the question; she SPECIFIED the map — singular. Not a folio, not GE. A map of the U.S. Rocky Mountains. Forrest answered the question posed.

            What people should be focusing on is not that little Indy can’t solve clues 3 and beyond, but rather that she CAN solve the first two clues with that map!

          • Marcelo…pretty sure Fenn never said that. He did say…”Look at the big picture, There are no short cuts.”

          • Ken, Seeker,

            The way the riddle thing is stated needs to be in context. He says: ” If you’re going to find the treasure you’ve got to solve the riddle in my poem,..the nine clues that are in my poem: nobody is going to happen on the chest”.

            So the ‘riddle” is only being mentioned in the context of the nine clues not really the whole poem.

          • Colo…yes that is what I mean. Maybe not what I said exactly. My intent was to agree that there may be “A”, singular, riddle. This riddle and it’s answer I think may be the key to the whole enchilada. I believe the answer tells “the Where”. Like I said earlier…I believe there is a reason why the question is in the 5th stanza.

          • Ken,
            But as we all know he said that knowing about ‘riddles’ will ‘not assist anyone to the treasures location’. So I guess the way I read that quote is that he is simply saying the nine clues are a ‘puzzle’ or ‘cryptic’ as opposed to being arranged as a classic ‘who/what am I’ riddle. A different use of the word rather than an attribute to how the clues are structured.

          • I’ll help you think …

            In the poem we see:

            “the canyon”
            “the home”
            “the meek”
            “the end”
            “the blaze”
            “the chest”
            “the cold”
            “the wood”
            “the gold”

            Why the poem does not speak:

            Begin it where “THE” warm waters halt ???

            That’s how I found my WWWH

          • Sure Colo. First saying no riddles…then saying to “solve the riddle in my poem” sure does raise a red flag in my book. Not a cattle prod type red flag…but none the less it stands out a bit.
            Your idea that he was using the word “riddle” in a different context makes sense…but still admits that it is like a riddle by your interp. does not change the idea that the question in the poem has answer/s. One of which could be, the answer that pinpoints the “where”…as in wwwh.
            Right now it makes sense to me because I already had my wwh and clue 2…and my fairly well defined hob with really only one way to go.

          • Ken,
            Yeah, I get it….riddle can mean many things. Not really picking on your process.

            So here’s a puzzler from SB 35,
            Will the poem lead you to the treasure?
            “Yes if you know where to start. F”

            Admittedly this doesn’t exclude the possibility that the starting point is contained in the poem, but it almost makes it sound like knowing where to start is a prerequisite to using the poem to to begin with.

  81. TJ Schweers on January 31, 2018 at 4:41 pm said:

    “I’m now thinking that the poem is a kind of “What am I?” riddle. And, that’s the reason thousands of people haven’t been able to find the treasure after all these years. They’re looking at the “clues” as reality objects, not as leading to ways to answer a riddle. All IMHO. Good luck out there.”

    Thanx TJ for a bit of confirmation that I am not the only that’s thinking along these lines.

  82. If we could WISH what a wwwh would be
    Mammoth
    Norris
    side of hill which shows on zoomed in google maps…..near secret creek…above Gibbon….is a place called Secret Hot Spring
    which would be nice if was a tub size for Forrest back in the day.

    • I have walked up Secret Creek a ways and found no treasure. Lots of downed trees there makes the hike a bit tricky too.

      • Definitely not going there. Just thinking of interesting wish-places.
        Thanks for tip though.
        Appreciate all info shared here.

      • Aaron,
        Did you mean Secret Valley Creek in YNP?
        Plenty of somewhat steep creeks have heavy loads and water high.
        I’ll park outside the park.

        • Yes Chance, Secret Valley Creek in YNP. I saw another person hiking off trail with a backpack near there too and wondered if he was searching for the treasure.

  83. Jeremy P. on February 12, 2018 at 2:50 am said:

    “From my perspective, I think there’s a shelf-life on topics that get discussed and how people talk about them. You get introduced to Chase and then you start up a conversation about, say, what the nine clues are. Then maybe you talk about where warm waters halt. Then some other things. Then you go on a trip and you talk about that. You go through a period where you think random commentators are actually Forrest Fenn in disguise

    After awhile, at least for me, there comes a point where you feel like you’re just having the same conversation over and over again, so you stop reading everything that’s posted, rightly or wrongly thinking it’s some variation on something you’ve already read. You lose track of threads, what people are talking about, etc. It might be different for retired folks, but having a job and reading everything posted isn’t practical.”

    Thanx for sharing this Jeremy. As my avatar somewhat describes/shows, I am an avid model rocketeer – some of us have other interests outside of the chase, which also take up time. For myself, I think it actually helps me to “let things rest” for spells of time to let things “simmer and stew”, to allow my subconscious to work on things. At least for me, that’s when I have the “Aha!” moments. I’m usually working some other problem completely unrelated to the chase when something comes to me. My bucket analogy came to me this way.

    Not that I have been on the site from the beginning, but I do get a chuckle now and then when a noob comes on board. And I add to the confusion because I pop on and off the site at really odd times. Again, thanx for the comments.

    And all in my opinion.

  84. The other side of solving the poem can be that ATF comments are great, but, does one need those comments to solve the poem? When the book first came out with the poem there really where no ATF comments. The book, the poem and a good map is all that is needed along with a little knowledge and some imagination to solve where the chest is hidden. That is not a quote from F, but my personal feeling.

    However, the cheat sheet at the top of hoD was a big help with ATF comments because those narrowed down the search area, where not to go for an 80 year old, and what not to search in, such as man made structures. I’m sure that even without those the poem can still be solved and that is provided one has the correct starting point.

    What it all boils down to is, there are many ideas and beliefs each one of us has in solving the poem, mine is different, which does not make it correct or wrong. If we all thought alike this would be a dull world of thinking.

    All power to those that are searching for Indulgence.
    IMO

  85. From my own limited experience, interpretation & location together is everything. You can have a correct interpretation but wrong location, or correct location wrong interpretation. Either one of those figured incorrectly can throw off your whole solve. In my solve (I’ve had to scout my area 4 times to put things together) I have had to make many adjustments and refine my interpretation of HOB and my Blaze. I nearly threw out my current solve for others, but this one just kept nudging me. I have found I am best served by “sleeping on it” as things always make a little more sense when there is a blank page to fill. Now I think I finally have my ducks in a row. Now if only all the darn snow would melt!! Happy Hunting

  86. Great detective I am, can someone please clue me in on what HoD is? I see it referenced but am not cluing in on it. Thanks 🙂

  87. I watched a documentary on the first all female air race (The Powder Puff Derby). A lady pilot named Marvel Crosson was killed in a crash in Arizona. I don’t know if Fenn ever heard of her since she died in 1929 but his parents probably did. Interesting that she grew up in Sterling Colorado (nicknamed: “A Colorado Treasure”). Sterling is not in the Rockies by the way.
    There’s probably no connection but Marvel is such an unusual name it caught my attention. And I’m sure the view from a vintage open cockpit airplane would provide one with a Marvel gaze. 😉

    • Spallies, thanks for your reply to my post on Jenny Kile’s site.

      Forrest really had a larger point to make with this weeks question & answer.
      Some people “are not blinded by [the] value” of the treasure…

      GCG

  88. I just read where Toby and Shelley at GK will never search for the treasure in YNP. That is interesting since Toby seems very analytical and appears to have some reasonable theories. IMO

    • Covert One,

      I’ll revert back to the quote F made in TTOTC on page 5, about life is much like a game of poker & a joker. At the time there really were no boundaries within the RMs, but now there are only 4 states. Hence the four cards & the one joker is within one of those 4. In fish speak a Red Haring.

      And here comes a lot of flack, for me the Yellowstone area is the joker. I think in the most part Yellowstone does have a lot of warmer water, but I have a tendency to think some searchers are in that area just because F spent his summers there as a youth and doing various activities while there.

      I’m not minimizing any thing about F’s life and some of us had adventurers in our youth that is somewhat similar. I grew up just outside of Bozeman in the mountains and had many adventurers and I hold many excellent memories. Yet again Yellowstone area did not fit my search just because.

      To each there own and my opinion.

  89. Came across this after going back to “River Bathing is Best” on FF’s site:

    KELLY says: 12:43 AM ON SEPTEMBER 9, 2012
    Forest as I lay here recuperating my heart beats a little faster and stronger. The medicene of the “thrill of the chase” has found it way to me. Thanks for having Neweek report your hunt. I have back packed with my horses through the forest in southern New Mexico from the Dona Anas to Magdalena. It has brought the twinkle back to my eye to ponder the trails I can visit questing this hunt. A hot spring is always a welcome site and that they are in your poem ( where the hot water halts) is a treasure in itself. Riding along in the Gila with sunflowers as high as my shoulder, I’m going to enjoy the chance to riding and exploring Aspens in northern NM. My hat is dusted and held to my chest in salute to you.  Gracias por el sueno.
    FORREST FENN says: 10:35 AM ON SEPTEMBER 10, 2012
    Looking for the treasure on horseback is a novel idea and if you find it you will need to give your horse an extra ration of oats. Good luck in the chase.

  90. Here’s a thought… what if the poem is already out of order? Let me give you an example of what I mean… I apologize if this has been brought up before.

    I’m going to tell you how to get to the treasure chest bar.

    First, you start at warm waters coffee house and go down canyon road.

    It’s not far but you don’t want to walk it.

    You’re going to turn right at Doc Browns house.

    You’re going to have to be careful of the potholes in the road. Don’t drive meek.

    You’re getting close to the bar.

    You will pass No-Paddle creek road but don’t turn there.

    You have to go down by the gravel pile and the water tower.

    If you’re smart you’ve found the street.

    You need to look down and you’re there.

    Etc….

    You see, in this method, you’re getting from point A to point H in the first couple of lines but I’m also describing what you’ll see in between. Does that make sense?

    I’m not saying this is how the poem is written.. just throwing ideas out. That may also explain how people can get the first few clues and then get off track.

    Here’s the obligatory “IMO”

    TimM

  91. Colokid,

    Earlier to Ken you said “Admittedly this doesn’t exclude the possibility that the starting point is contained in the poem, but it almost makes it sound like knowing where to start is a prerequisite to using the poem to to begin with.”

    The thread was too long and no reply button to your post, hence this new thread. Hope you don’t mind. If I’m right the starting point is in the poem and hints contained therein will aid in understanding what to look for that can be directly confirmed using ATF comments, SBs, etc., no imagination required.

    I can’t say I agree that it’s a prerequisite because I simply don’t know, but it kind of sounds that way and IMO is sure worth finding, though you’ll have to study the poem real hard in order to unlock that door.

    Good luck to you Kid and to you Ken.

    Pinatubocharlie

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