I Think The Chest is Here…Part Four



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Many searchers have decided the chest is in a general area…maybe even a specific area of the known universe of the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe. So this is the place where we can talk about where we, as individuals, think the chest is at…Don’t give away too much though… 🙂


659 thoughts on “I Think The Chest is Here…Part Four

  1. This is very difficult.
    I started out with certain thoughts as, it’s in New Mexico.
    Later I strongly suspected Wyoming.
    Now the closest place I can think the chest is located is in the Rockies. 🙂

    • lol… this made me laugh.. because although we end up with the same ending thought, I was the reverse. I started thinking it was for sure in Wyoming, then later felt New Mexico, and now all I feel sure about is– it is in the Rockies. However, I have a nagging feeling towards the north again.

      • There are too many searchers up North. I’m waiting for 2019 to allow it to clear up a bit.

  2. I have looked the past 2 years in a couple of canyons. Coming back up is a heart attack. I could only take 6 steps before continuing up the canyon. Don’t be greedy and go alone.. Take a friend who will stay at the car or leave a note on your dashboard if you go alone. The canyons where I was were so heavily eroded from spring thaw runoff that the treasure would have been destroyed. Only texting worked on my phone to my friend at the car. We could not call each other. I brought a whistle with me and pepper spray. I do know what the home of Brown is which helped start my search area. It is so obviously funny when you figure it out. But, my other clues were wrong. I only go in the Fall to avoid rattle snakes. Going again this October.
    — Dogbone

  3. Narrowing your search helps. If you’re not using Google earth satellite, you dont stand a chance. You also need to use ground view also to look for barbed wire fences that have “No trespassing ” signs.
    Remember, if you find the treasure on private land, it’s not yours. If you find the treasure on public land, it’s not yours.
    Forrest was careful that way. I hope that narrows your search. If you find it, it probably has a tracking device on it. Forrest said he would know if someone found it.
    Forrest does not respond to his website replys. So if you find it, let him know and then shut up about it. He wants a few things back from it.

    • What land type are you hinting that it’s on then? If not private and not public, doesn’t that rule out everything? The only land category where I think the treasure would be yours (out of the categories listed on Forrest’s map) is on BLM land… which is public.

    • BTW Forrest hinted that only the first two clues would be discoverable on Google Maps / Google Earth. (“The little girl in India cannot get closer than the first two clues.”) That means that only WWWH and TIITCD are visible in maps or on satellite imagery, and without BOTG. THOB is definitely not visible without BOTG, according to Forrest’s statement.

      • That’s not necessarily true. All clues except the very last one can be seen from Google Earth. Mr Fenn has stated that the TC can NOT be seen from GE “because it doesn’t go down that far” (paraphrasing)

        In my chase… this statement is true and can be verified (not willing to do so yet due to obvious locations along the way from WWWH to Blaze)

      • Hi OnTheChase: consider that Forrest may have correctly answered the very specific question that Jenny asked: “Can a little girl in India, who speaks good English, but only has your poem and a map of the US Rocky Mountains, work out where the treasure is?”

        What do you imagine is meant by “a map of the US Rocky Mountains”? How might Forrest interpret that? Jenny didn’t mention a word about Google Earth, digital maps, or even maps plural. A single map of the US Rocky Mountains. Sounds like a physical (e.g. paper) map to me. How much detail would such a map have if it contained the entire US Rocky Mountains?

        Nevertheless, his answer was interesting. It suggested that even on a wide scale, unavoidably coarse map, the first two clues are still solvable!

        • Hi James — yes, Fenn did. But not Jenny. Forrest was answering Jenny’s specific question. I’m confident the third clue cannot be found on a paper map that spans the entire U.S. Rockies.

      • Brown is the treasure chest. Nobody, little girls from India or otherwise, can get closer to the treasure chest than the treasure chest can get to itself.

    • Check laws and regulations concerning abandoned property. You probably will find a loophole concerning state and federal property. Each state may be different. Forrest said, “ I give you title to the gold” for a reason. He is publicly stating he is abandoning rights of ownership to the finder making it abandoned property. You can’t dig on federal property so IMO it is not buried in those areas. Why would Forrest give up ownership to something that could not be removed? Do your DD ahead of time about abandoned property if you are lucky enough to find the trove you may be in an area without cell and internet access. What will you do then, and who are you going to call? Be prepared.

  4. Greetings,
    dogbone & others, heed Mr. Fenn’s cautionaries, use contours to your advantage, when in your 70’s, balance
    and knowledge of slow heals from bone breaks will dictate your traverses.
    IMO, that First People’s historical locations, fishing, and some solitude of view are all joined at the hip, Sooo,
    N. NM., SW. CO. & both sides of the
    Winds in WY.. are my looks.

  5. I love all the “additional” rules people tend to throw out there. From what I recall, reading and researching about Mr. Fenn, he wasn’t exactly a “by the book” kind of guy. He BROKE rules! The poem says if you find the treasure, which may or may not be somewhere along the Madison, it is yours to keep!! PERIOD!! END OF STORY!! GO IN PEACE!! PLEASE, PLEASE, JUST GO IN PEACE!! LOL OH yeah, and give Fenn the bracelet. IMHO

  6. Pretty sure it’s in Wyoming. I am dying to get out there this summer to pursue a theory in an area that I already looked. There was an interview where I think Forrest said too much, and he caught it right away, but the interviewer didn’t. Nuff said.

    • Good luck. I’ll race you to it lol. Just counting the days until the snow is gone.

    • I also feel the chest is right along the Yellowstone boundary….. let’s remember first that most of Forests favorite memories are of Yellowstone, West Yellowstone, being a fly fisherman and fishing guide with his father and camping…. That was all centered around the greater West Yellowstone area…. the Fenn family had a motorcourt in West Yellowstone, they had rental cabins there…. Forest mentioned that the clues did not exist when he was a child but most of the places the clues are at did exist.!!! Which clearly means he was very familiar with all the areas the clues are located when he was young….. he also states he can still easily go to where the chest is located….. a mid 80’s man is not going to be traversing steep canyons and doing rigorous climbs and hikes.!!! Especially with any additional weight from the chest or chest contents…… remember that Forest was an avid fly fisherman ….. and his favorite fishing spots are in the greater Yellowstone area……

      • DKM;

        All that you state is true – all of which (for me) is too obvious, and therefore why I have excluded this area almost from day one – Just one man’s opinion – JDA

        • JDA I’m glad you think differently. You have great input and great thoughts. But I think you are missing a very big “picture” that FF has painted. I hope you well in your searches far away from where I’m searching. Lol

          • OOPS hit the post button too soon – Thanks for the compliments – sorry I hit the post button too soon- JDA

  7. Yellowstone! And I’ve narrowed down my search area to just 70,000 of the 2,000,000+ acres of park. (ha!)

    • Allen,

      Yellowstone was it for me when I first started the Chase, but have since moved on after becoming better acquainted with Forrest’s personality and what’s important to him.


      • Hi Pinatubocharlie,

        I will return to my search area in Yellowstone for the third time in July. If I don’t find it this time, I may start looking at solves in NM…

        I personally don’t think he would hide it anywhere else.

        Either way, I have found contentment in my chase, and that has made all the difference.

        Good luck on your chase in 2018!

  8. I still believe it is in Gallatin County in Montana. But that’s only a guess based mostly on intuition and biased assumptions rather than the clues fitting in that place better than say… Idaho or Utah.

    I would be so happy if I could find a serious contender for a blaze on one of my trips…

    • The blaze I believe is the ‘path’ to the chest.

      Not necessarily an object that will stand out.

      • So if you find yourself “on the path” to the chest, then
        you should look quickly down? What if the “path” is
        more than 5 miles long? Good luck.

          • A path ‘could’ be man made. That isn’t to say that it is. There are directions in the poem. I’m absolutely convinced. You just absolutely must have the correct starting point, err location.

        • Actually I’m slowing down gonna start walking more like a 80 year old and I’ll tell her I have about two more pair of boots we can add to the pile Boots on the ground burriel site if they could only tell our story a hundred years from now hehe

        • And are you saying your going searching in the snow don’t do it do not seek the treasure I repeat do not seek the treasure

          • There and back DG..Already visited West Yellowstone. Had another reason to head there this winter. I skied on the Riverside trail…checked on your sister’s boots under the stump and glided along the river a bit and back to town. It was sunny and bright and cold and about 18inches of great snow on the ground under the trees. More along the river. I had a fun day…Looked for steaming Bison and active Beavers around their houses…
            Saw Bison. Didn’t see Beavers…nor moose nor elk that don’t exist..
            Didn’t actually look for the chest but did scout an area that I will go back to in late spring…
            A good time was had by all!!!

          • Wow dal you can ski I’m impressed Hehe And if you would search in the right area like me you would see all the animals lol even porcupines

        • Dal,

          Have you found green obsidian in Gallatin? In my younger years you could find big chunks in a couple of canyons.

    • i think colo in a garden with roses when is the fenn boree this year im making it hope all is well with all thats my guess

    • If it’s in Montana I think it’s more likely in Beaverhead County as more clues align there on the map, but my intuition tells me it’s more likely in Moffat County, CO.

  9. After 5 trips…my money and future 6th trip this spring is on northern NM.
    Have further narrowed our solve after each trip. You really have to get out in the area you have decided on for your solve and match it up to the poem, Forrest’s comments, TTOTC, other searchers advice and thoughts. I truly thank the BOTG and armchair searchers/detectives on this blog for their insight and deductive reasoning. Without their help our solve would be useless to us. Whether our solve is right or wrong almost doesn’t seem to matter as much. We just enjoy getting outside in northern NM and trying to match up the clues. Kinda like an Easter egg hunt when you were a kid. The scenery is worth the trip all by itself. Just wish it were closer to our home in NC so we could search more often.
    Good luck to all and stay safe.

  10. Dal- IMO, from what I’ve heard about your theory in an interview… you had the exact right idea of what the blaze is. I think you were spot on when you said it, you may have just been looking in the wrong place. I’d love to share my solve with you… but it’s just too close now. Go with your gut. God Bless!

  11. New Mexico –
    inside old ____ (red) near Hermit peak.
    in a rat midden in wilderness near ‘tub’
    near the rain&parachute roads at 10,000 ft
    in middle of Aspen view (where I’d like)
    Brownie hike
    Hamilton Mesa
    Cave Solo, New Mexico
    near Abiquiu near divide and echo
    Eagles Nest

    National parks
    Wolf creek pass
    Miracle mile
    Steve canyon
    Air Force Academy – near
    North Platt

    Yellowstone Wolf lake
    Pebble creek
    Penny Lake
    End of Firehole
    7 mile
    North Platt
    Electric light bulb cane pole

    Kitchen sink

    Lots more possibles in each state which I won’t mention because I’ve got 7-9 clues to each. The above only a few clues fit each but have all been searched according to internet. So must not be at any of those.

    I would consider looking for following:
    a caliched covered or carved out white rock near smaller stream.
    Dry place favored.
    Wood leaned against cliff.
    Buffalo robe in ochre curled up in a cliff rat midden.
    Undercut bank at end sharp curve in slow area of river or small island or rock outcrop with hidden fur type cache.
    Under bridge
    Coin nailed on tree. Look up

    Just my humble (and limited by other option whic I keep secret) opinions
    though. Good luck.

  12. Early on, I got hooked on Wyoming and am still sticking with it.

    Best of luck to you all!.

  13. Why must I go, and leave?
    Because you get to it from Wyoming, but you must leave Wyoming. So the only way to get to it is Thru WY. But you leave wyoming……
    Understand? Lol….makes sense to me.

  14. Methi0nks it’s in a relatively safe place. Forrest never indicated he took a gun or rifle with him. Personally, I will never take a hike into the wilderness where I’m on the menu without some protection. At 80, even with two trips, I don’t think he hauled all that weight around very far off the road. This leads me to think many are overthinking the poem and its clues. Parks might work but that gives me issues with “finders keepers”. I have been certain it’s in New Mexico. That didn’t work so I moved on to Colorado, Wyoming, and Montana. I’m beginning to wonder if “where warm waters halt” have anything to do with water at all. Somewhere on public lands, not far from the road in Colorado sounds reasonable. He could have made this in one day in a sedan. I’m looking at the roads going north from New Mexico into southern/central Colorado.

    • Temperature of warm water freezes at what degrees?
      Where is warm water near a military fort?
      If warm water freezes into ice ….look for ___ .
      Where does a warm springs end…when it joins a river.

      • As I read it, it talks about “warm waters” (plural). What does this mean? I am skeptical about hot/warm springs joining a river because it doesn’t halt. It merely cools down. Hence the Firehole river folks talk about doesn’t hold water (pun intended) for me. Hope I’m still on topic. Please, someone, find this thing!~

        • Bob,

          I have to disagree. For simplicity sake, let’s call it “Warm Waters”, and let’s call it “Big River.”

          “Warm Waters” flows down the mountain, until it joins “Big River”. “Warm Waters”, we can consider an entity, or a thing. The water that flows down the mountain takes on a personality (if you will). It, as an entity that is known as “Warm Waters.”

          When this entity meets “Big River”, as an entity, “Warm Waters” ceases to exist, or it halts. When the waters of “Warm Waters” meets the waters of “Big River” – does it become “Warm Waters/Big river”? Nope. The combined waters become known ONLY as The waters of “Big River”

          The waters of “Warm Waters” (as an entity) has come to a halt, by merging with the waters of “Big River.” Make sense? Does to me. JMO – Tell me how this logic is flawed Bob. JDA

          • I agree with that logic. If a river ends in any way, including merging with another river, then the river can be thought of as halting. The water in the river doesn’t, but the waters of the river does.

        • Look for ‘warm’ rivers, springs, lakes, creeks that flow into larger rivers. Lots of those in states.

          Side note:
          Fenn’s father liked big switches while Forrest preferred small. Fenn liked grapette (small)
          How many rivers with forks? One big one small? Big creek, little creek. Big lake little lake. Big lake area, little lake area like Hebgen lake shape Grayling.
          (Just my two cents. All these have been searched many times though.)
          Good luck to all.

          • Also,
            what is travertine if not where hot springS halt..turns into stone?

            When geysers or hot springs fizzle out like above Madison junction hike areas, then have those waters also halted?

            Just food for thought…

          • And hot streams tumble down and halt at river ‘bank’. Bank = riches = money = bills\currency. =. Presidents & treasury secretaries and others – who was one of many USA Treasurers in 1930’s?
            W. H. WOODIN

            Where are Jefferson, Madison, Gallatin on US currency? And in Montana rivers? ‘Wash’-ington not too far from there. Lincoln?
            Are bison on currency? ‘Standing’ liberty, Eye (Ojo) of Providence, etc.

            So is river ‘bank’ possibly where Wwwh?

            There are so many ways to read poem. This is just one of many possibilities, maybe?

    • Denver Mint-Riches new and old?? They have a hanging Lake in Colorado-and a Tarryall, and aFarista and Farita Colorado-also Glaciers and Trains and Tunnels down from them-IMO-I really like Colorado!!!

        • I also came up with Colorado-because abbreviated it can be CO., COL., or Colo.
          and that weird semi-colon, Fenn dropped in-half-colon=Col. I know it’s a stretch! But, it does mean red, or colored-as in blushing? Which to me could be our warm? Like, Colorado Waters Halt? Again-it’s a bit of a stretch I guess! I just really like Colorado.! LOL!!

      • Yes and Forrest recent comments last fall about Colorado really make you wonder!

  15. I believe that I know where it is. I am not going to post that location right now. But I am confident enough that I believe my kids and I will be able to walk right to it. We are leaving tomorrow morning. Wish me luck!

  16. Ele descreveu um trecho que ele conhece bem. Talvez de Madison Junction até Ojo Caliente…tantos anos escondido (calha do Firehole River na altura da ponte de ferro)….duzentos pés abaixo do Ojo Caliente geyser…pode estar coberto de lama, pedrinhas, vegetação…talvez ele não tenha enterrado, mas pode ter sido enterrado pelo tempo…Home of Brown = Sentinel Creek… Blaze = trajeto percorrido por ele de bicicleta várias vezes quando criança (precedente para alguém seguir) …Se alguém encontrar me dê uma gorjeta.

      • É onde as trutas marrom e arco-íris voltam quando a água do Firehole River e Nez Peres Creek esquentam muito. Ali também se reproduzem. São encontradas trutas gigantes ali. Apesca também é difícil poa a água ser rasa e limpa. Algumas publicações chamam a truta marrom de “”B”rown”.

        • Both Brown and Rainbow Trout are present in good numbers throughout the river, with Brook Trout being found in the far headwater reaches. The Firehole is not known as a big fish river, with the average trout running from 8-12 inches. However, the fish are plentiful, feisty, and eager to eat flies. I have taken fish of up to 18 inches in the river, but fish over 15” are not common.

      • É onde as trutas marrom e arco-íris voltam quando a água do Firehole River e Nez Peres Creek esquentam muito. Ali também se reproduzem. São encontradas trutas gigantes ali. A pesca também é difícil porque a água é rasa e limpa. Algumas publicações chamam a truta marrom de “”B”rown”.

          • Yellowstone é um ótimo lugar para visitar, mesmo que não encontre o tesouro lá. Eu voltarei lá no verão e se eu não encontrar o tesouro, sei que pelo menos vou encontrar alguma truta. Se eu posso conectar qualquer outra coisa a essa área, e eu tenho tempo, eu vou verificar. obrigado

  17. I am lead to believe that the chest is in Yellowstone and cannot wait to get back there.

  18. Well partners its time to saddle up ole Buttermilk and head out under blue New Mexican skies. It sure is mighty fine scenery up near Olga’s Taos Mountain (Mt. Wheeler) and it’s watersheds.

    I need to pack some cornmeal in my possible bag for some fried mush on those sprite mornings in the Southern Rockies near Tierra Amirillo where Eric Sloan once had a house.

    I will just lope along those game trails not made by man exercising my lungs inhaling the scent of Pinion. Then I will equate the directional alignment of the Gravel Maze ( Marvel Gaze) at no place for the meek (Ghost Ranch) bashing in the blazing refection of the red cliffs..

    Too many arrows point to the LAND OF ENCHANTMENT.
    IMOP -guy-

    • I think you are right on the money Guy. I cannot imagine the treasure being anywhere other than New Mexico.

  19. Aha, The map of Gallatin National Forrest which was burnt in Looking for Lewis and Clark.
    There are some Blue Ribbon trout rivers & streams there I must check especially around Gallatin Gateway.

    • “The map of Gallatin National Forrest which was burnt in Looking for Lewis and Clark.”

      That map did produce a blaze. At least in the book.

      • Burning the map did help produce a blaze & maybe where “the blaze” is.
        All the stories in his books are special otherwise they wouldn’t be in the book or the internet. We can all pick and choose which stories, text or pictures to spark your imagination where the treasure is.

        Looking for Lewis and Clark seems to have a “hint” within but does not lead you directly to the treasure but gives a general area that was special and dear to him and now I have to find the secret spot in this area which will not be easy considering Mother Nature is my only competition.

    • I’m looking at databasin.org (use dataset Montana Blue and Red Ribbon Streams). It shows the Gallatin, Madison, and Yellowstone having large sections of Blue Ribbon in the GNF, but none of their tributaries are listed as Blue Ribbon.

      That could narrow it down for you…

      • Thanks Muset, I tried to work that site but I’m not a techy. I think it’s note worthy the Madison, Gallatin rivers are Blue Ribbon. We all know he knows these rivers quite well like the back of his hand. I can’t imagine the treasure being anywhere else.

  20. I wont give away the river I think it’s next to, but somewhere in YSNP. It’s the only place in the book, apart from Texas, to come up several times over the years. The river is long though, so it’ll be a ton of ground to try and cover.

  21. A creek is usually small, maybe 2 ft. wide and 3 to 6 inches deep and can also be dry in late season after spring melt. Creeks start in small canyons. Why are people following rivers in Yellowstone or the Rio Grande in New Mexico? Stay small. Forrest drove to the spot in a car. He didnt walk too far. But, it must be a decent looking spot to have your bones rest. The home of Brown has nothing to do with a brown trout. Finding the first 2 clues will very easily take you to the other clues and the TC.

    • I never thought of that. He did write “paddle up your creek.” I, like most others here, have spent a lot of time pondering over WWWH and forgot about that clue. It makes a ton more sense looking at that part where to narrow down WWWH could be.

      As for the HOB comment, are you referring to the old ranger station people suspect?

      • Hi Kauri: I think the sensible interpretation of the after-the-fact comments by Forrest rules out a ranger station as being Forrest’s home of Brown since it would undeniably be a manmade structure.

        • Hey Zaphod,
          I don’t know of anywhere Forrest said that home of Brown was not a structure. I am aware that he said that the treasure chest is not associated with any structure. Could you give a reference if he said otherwise? thanks

        • Hi Boaz: it’s not a direct quote from Forrest, but rather relayed information kindly provided (to all) by Cynthia a few months back. I’m sure some would prefer to treat it as hearsay, but knowing Cynthia I believe it’s legitimate information just as if it had come from Forrest himself. Dal opined on this a few months back as I recall and considers it valid data. (But Dal please correct me if my recollection is failing me on that point!)

          I’ve never had any of the clues associated with manmade structures, so it wasn’t much of a revelation to me. Really, Forrest’s declared clue longevity potentiality alone does a pretty good job of eliminating manmade structures for any of the clues.

    • Dogbone,

      According to a my dictionary, a creek is also a small stream or river. I agree that whatever you use…creek, stream or river, stay small. I believe the chest or route to the chest is not involving a raging, wide, large river and you do not have to cross or float one to get to a creek when looking for the chest.
      You can walk to it from a parking lot/area. I’m not saying a person doesn’t have to get wet though to find the chest.
      Good luck and stay safe.

      • Tarry Heels, you should be very careful with your assumptions…a small creek in late May/June can be extremely dangerous depending on snowpack and myriad other variables. Complimentary to that, major rivers can shrink to mere puddles late in the season, again depending on many things. I fish the headwaters of the N Platte every year with my dad and in April, on a good snowpack year, I have seen 5000 cu ft/s, and believe me that is scary, don’t fall in, you will die water…then in the SAME season, early August, water flow was down to 250 cu ft/s, which you can find many wider spots that won’t be much deeper than your ankles and safety is no concern. Timing matters, snowpack matters and narrow canyon vs. wide valley floor (steepness) matters (these are how I would rank them in importance, YMMV)…all IMO of course! Also, be aware of flash flooding…have an escape plan to higher ground if needed. Be safe, be smart, wilderness isn’t just the critters…mama Nature will mess you up.

        • Good advice Tbug. I have seen the same fluctuations in water flow. 250 cu ft/ sec is a much safer #. JMO – JDA

        • Tbug,

          Agreed 100%.
          Sorry for the late reply. Have had the flu and just got back to blog.
          Have seen the same thing you mention above on my searches. I was referring to the usual stream size and flow of my search area river. A small river which could be jumped in several spots….waded in others. Have seen it high and low. It was also in flood stage causing damage in the canyon, when Forrest mentioned the treasure is wet. Not sure if this was his exact quote. In my mind/solve, it matches with the poem and timing of Forrest’s comment.
          Good luck and thanks for the insight.

    • If a creek is usually that small, what would be the point of the poem saying “there’ll be no paddle up your creek?”

      • Since I believe that FF likes some of the same oldies (popular songs) as I like, I’ll quote from one of them by CCR (Creedence Clearwater Revival):

        ” . . . I like the way you talk, Suzie Q”

        FF said that attention should be paid to the nouns in the poem.

      • I randomly picked up on this question while browsing through the HUNDREDS of emails I get related to these forums and I like it because I thought a good long while on this as well. For several reasons in fact. I’ll give you my thoughts – you call me crazy/do with them what you will 😉

        This sticks out to me for several reasons:
        1. – First mention of a specific type of body of water! The poem refers to “water” in various forms all throughout, but only at this point does Fenn mention a Type (river, stream, sea, ocean, lake, creek, etc.).
        2. – “There’ll” OR “There will” (future tense) be no paddle. Paddle here stuck out to me for a long time. I kept it in mind in consideration of the blaze for a while as well, but the more I studied it and pondered over it I asked myself a thousand times “How can the absence of a paddle be the blaze?” Well… it can’t. What does seem fitting is to paddle. NOT a vessel, but “to walk in shallow water with bare feet”.

        I’ll leave out what else I take away from this part of the poem, but what I believe he is saying here is that you are in fact looking for something that a cartographer would identify as a creek, but all we can do is identify a flowing body of water that fits with the remainder of the “map”, that you won’t be somewhere you’ll want to play in said “creek” and as you continue “up” the “creek” (walking alongside it) you’ll encounter “water high” and “heavy loads”.

        So yes, you do have to stick to the VERY LOOSE RULES of what identifies something as a creek – but all that means is you should be in close proximity to a flowing body of water for at least a portion of your trek. I have done a lot of digging and PEOPLE ARE WRONG to draw such hard lines here, the reality is that it was LONG AFTER many maps were created that we started trying to differentiate between “stream” types and because no consensus could be met on strict definitions for these – they are all TECHNICALLY streams. This is according to the Geographic Names Information System database (official repository of U.S. geographic names/classifications) where “all linear flowing bodies of water” are streams. Alternative names are offered, but officially there is no designation related to width, depth, flow rate, etc. for a creek vs. a river and so on. Some 100+ generic terms related to flowing water bodies are classified, officially, as streams.

        • Hi Don

          You assume water is a lake..stream..river..etc. What if “Water’s High” is the Connie trail..Contrail? Of a jet? Water vapor trail. That is also Water’s High..Just my take on waters high..Colleen

  22. If you’ve invested a little money and read Forrest’s book there is something that’s going to jump out glaringly at you and a major clue will be solved. If you haven’t read his books then you’re missing a very large clue. And you need to read every single blog every interview and every publication Forest has ever made or you will lose additional Clues all I’m saying

    • I have found a few pretty solid hints about an area I like, in the book. Others here that are searching in other areas talk about their areas, and I know they are in different areas. I believe they are hints to many areas in the book. The best way to sprinkle in hints but level the playing field at the same time is to provide hints to numerous areas of the Rocky Mountains. This would help explain the statement about hints not directly helping the searcher, paraphrasing. Be careful that they do not aid in confirmation bias.

      • Outstanding post; with all of the stories, it’s easy to find one or more “hints” to match your theory but it doesn’t mean you are on the right trail.

    • IMO
      I don’t believe that to be true, I think too much information makes it harder. But, I also think that’s the point, to overload. I’ve only read TTOTC & I think I have a pretty good chance at finding it. The chase was on way before any of the newer books. I honestly couldn’t even tell you the titles without looking them up. But what could a high school drop out know. Best of luck!

      • After I read a book, I (also) try to put it where it can
        be found.

        A “high school drop out” could know many, many
        things, including how to deal with a LOT of handles.

        OH! . . . I should say something about where I think
        the chest is.

        I think it’s beyond an area that looks, for all practical purposes, like a desert. But a smart
        searcher should know that he/she won’t be able
        to walk directly towards the chest, because a
        smart searcher should also be smart enough to
        use a dictionary. Hear me good, y’all (not to
        be confused with Jane Goodall)?

        Stress is good — for bones.

        The above is part of my opinion.

      • Birdie, IMO,I think that the poem is all that you need after reading the first book. I know there is a big hint in the second book because FF has said so. I think that I have a good idea of what it is from online research but conformation bias is a tricky thing, lol. I have read TToTC but I don’t own it. I borrowed it from my brother and gave it back. I think the most important story is My War For Me, as I think that listening to anyone can open eyes for those of us that haven’t. You made a good point about too much info makes it harder. You have just as much chance as anyone. Good luck to you!

  23. Haven’t been on here in a while… Miss all these wild, thought evoking ideas!

    I follow my “map” straight to the end and I wind up at a small margin below the max altitude we’re told to stay under (10,200 ft.) in Rocky Mountain Nation Park ~4 miles off of Trail Ridge Road. There are pathways and landmarks that undeniably align with Forrest’s words that will lead you to Heavy Loads and Water High. And in all my digging – I think Forrest, that clever old man, paraphrased parts of his poem from descriptions he found others use for this area. Standing here I see some of the most beautiful sights that RMNP has to offer from a road built specifically for viewing the splendor of this area, crossing the continental divide and taking those who traverse it past the altitudinal tree line (where warm water quite literally halts and so does all the green that lives off of it). The moraine left by the giant that cut this beautiful landscape serves as a sign I am where Forrest tried so hard to guide me to. Even in the warm season I dare not play in the creek, but instead stay on course to my ultimate end, Indulgence. Like something of legend I come across a small, pristine body of water suspended in the sky. From here, away in the distance, so far it would take me a day or two to walk it, I can see the Blaze. I look down and now I know where he’s stashed it. I know where he would have rested. Simple, in theory, to think that like this challenge has made us look beyond ourselves, beyond the television, beyond what maybe we thought we could do before so do the clues inspire and compel us to look beyond where we are in the moment to see where we are going next. From this place I am near certain I’ll only have a short walk after I look down. I will not linger once I’ve accepted Forrest’s gift, but go in peace as I ponder the Heavy Loads now resting with me.

    • So you think a 79/80 yr old man would walk 4 miles one-way off trail above 8-10,000 feet…with 20lbs, 2x? I think that is a stretch, but maybe you’re saying you have a view of how to get to the spot easier? Good luck on your searches, the park is indeed marvel gaze(s).

      • I agree Tbug, a 4 mile walk seems a bit extreme. I would think that a shorter route is more probable – JDA

      • I do actaully. And not just because I want to! (Lol). Average walking speed for an adult male is ~4mph…

        The pathway I have mapped out isn’t a tough one, but it has some difficulty. And I’m keeping in mind that Fenn was headed here to die. I think an old man as Bold (resolute is a synonymous word for bold) as Fenn was about where his bones would rest wouldn’t bat an eye at it and he was certain this was his resting place. He also says that he’s done it tired and is now weak. We’ll he was tired after the first trek and weakened himself to make the second go, but did it because of his resolve.

        He’s no city boy. He knows mountain terrain and could have still handled it well. If he were some stiff nose I’d think twice. He did this during a season where the days grow long and I put about 5-6 hours total investment for him.

        I also noted that you cannot even access this are during the winter months which is perfectly in line with his words as well.

        • In an afternoon? He also said he walked less than a few miles. 16 is not a “few”, let alone, less

    • I tried learning about Rocky Mountain Nation Park, but my
      online search for that wasn’t very fruitful.

      It’s apparent that you’ll need a lot of luck to find the TC, so I will wish this to you.

      Good luck in finding the TC.

      All IMO.

  24. There are a lot of good thoughts and ideas circulating around, and looks like several people have specific locations that are being or will be soon searched. For those of you that have a location in mind, I am curious to know if you arrived at your solve location by using every line in the poem, or by just using the lines that contain the actual clues as you understand them? How important do you think the other lines or stanza are with regard to finding the TC?

    • KK,

      I don’t necessarily keep track of the clues, however I believe stanza’s 2, 3, part of 4 and 5 brought me to my solve. The thread or topic you are talking about is found under “Searcher’s Discussions” on the sidebar and then under “The Poem”

        • Thank you for your thoughts, Charlie! I wasn’t sure where to pose this question, since it has both to do with the poem and the location of the chest.

          • KK, The longer I spend studying the poem the more stuff I find in all stanzas. At this point I’m beginning to wonder if every line has useful information. If so, I have a ways to go to figure out all 24.

    • Águas quentes param=Madison junction
      Home office Brown=antes das firehole Falls ou sentinel creek
      Não haverá remos=rio firehole acima
      Grandes cargas e águas altas=depois firehole Falls ou após Sentinel Creek
      Blazer= ojo caliente (ele deixou um precedente para nós seguirmos quando ele era criança)
      TC estará num raio de 200 pes de ojo caliente

      • Marcelo,

        It might be helpful for you to write in English so that you can have more participation, if you can. 🙂

        Have a great day.

        • If you google portuguese to english you can copy and paste his response there, and vice versa to reply. It would be easier if they just do the translation to us first.

          Google Inglês para Português para traduzir se você precisar

    • KK;

      Forrest has said, ““There are nine clues in the poem, and the clues are in consecutive order. If you want to find the treasure chest – you have my book there – I’ll tell you how to do it. Read the book just normally … the poem and the rest of the book, and then go back and read the poem 6, 8, 10 times – study every line, every word. Then after you do that, read the book again, slowly, with the idea of looking for clues or hints, that are in the book that will help you follow the clues. You can find the chest with just the clues, but there are hints in the book that will help you with the clues.” f

      In my opinion, one would be foolish not to use the entire poem. I have stated that I think that the clues are in Stanzas 2,3 and 4, and that the hints are found in the other three stanzas. So, The clues lead me to the treasure, but the hints help with the clues.

      “Hints” in stanzas 5 and 6 led me to my WWWH – where I began my journey. Once I was in a specific place, again, hints lead me to an EXACT place, but it was the clues that got me to the “general” location. “general” may not be the best term. My final “general” location is quite small. – JDA

        • The key word is “almost” – Too bad you will never feel “my” brandy tricklin’ down your throat 🙂 JDA

        • “Brandy, you’re a fine girl” . . .

          Thanks for reminding me of these lyrics.

          I don’t think there is any brandy in the TC.

          Some Kennedy chests are finer than
          others; most of them that I’ve seen and
          touched were good for helping prolong the
          functional life of a tool (Ridgid or not).

          I never wanted to be considered a “boring tool”, but want to [point] out that — perhaps coincidentally — for some tools, a Kennedy
          chest might be considered a home that’s

          I hope I’m not throwing too much of a
          wrench into anybody’s “pent”-up quirks.

          The above is my opinion.

      • Thank you, JDA. I was curious how many people are utilizing the other lines, and how important they feel the other lines have been in helping them draw a conclusion in regard to the actual location of the TC. It is interesting to me how many “right” answers and interpretations there are to each clue/hint. It is tricky to figure out the right combination, and the pertinent information, for sure.

        • KK, every line. Like 24 little puzzles. Each line can be broken down and solved. The clues can only be thought of when the poem has been solved, IMO.

          Need to approach the solve like f wrote it. Solve for a spot, the poem gives that. What the poem does not do is solve for all the clues. Some clues need to be found. Anyone who has all nine clues solved before they have solved the poem is just wrong, IMO.

          I believe as you, solve all 24 lines. Do not mess with the poem, move letters or words or stanzas to fit a solve. Just one line after another. Do what is instructed.

          You can be confident in your spot and not know 100% of the clues. Because the poem was not written to solve for clues, it was written to find a spot…

        • Charlie: based on your post, you seem to make the assumption that each of the 24 poem lines is independent of the others (at least as far as clues go), and therefore no clue or hint can span beyond a single line. I think this is not only quite presumptuous, it’s also a big mistake.

          • nope, never said that. There is a flow. From line 1 to line 24. Each line says something other than it’s face value. You make it sound like I believe you can get wwwh from line 5, I’ve always said quite the opposite.
            You know I’ve said this, what are you implying? In fact, you know I’ve said that you can’t start to solve some of the clues until you’ve solved the poem. That goes for wwwh. Why would you think I go by each individual line? I just said each line is like a puzzle to solve. That each line can be broken down and solved. There are even multiple ways to solve some of the lines, doesn’t mean you are solving clues all the time. I’ll say it again, I don’t think all the clues can be solved with the info in the poem, only a spot. From that you can plot your path, along the way finding clues that are referenced in the poem. If you have solved for wwwh before solving the poem, I believe you are 100% wrong. You have to solve the poem. To do that, you have to solve each line in the poem. To do that, you just have to follow the instructions. Do you really think f started out writing this poem with 9 clues on his mind? If he didn’t know there were 9 clues at the time he was writing, how would he have included how to solve the 9 clues? Solving each line is not solving for clues, it is solving the poem, big difference…

          • charlie: you’re just making my case for me. Nowhere do you consider the possibility that a hint or clue could be secreted vertically in the poem, since you talk only about deciphering one line at a time.

          • Ohhh, I get what you are saying, I think. For me Zap, the poem has layers to it. Go thru it, go back again, then again, then once more. The clues/ or path flows from line 5 to line 24. It takes multiple things to solve some clues. Some, yes, just one line does it. It’s hard for me to explain. I guess that’s the issue. I should say a clues “reference” in the poem comes down to a line. Like clue 5 for me being line 16. But there are multiple things that make up that clue. It’s just, the reference for it is in line 16, for me. Like wwwh, line 5, but we both know that line 5 doesn’t solve for wwwh. It’s the reference. Here’s what I get:
            Clue 1, line 5, wwwh
            clue 2, line 6, canyon down
            clue 3, line 9, no place for the meek
            clue 4, line 13, the blaze
            clue 5, line 16, just take the…
            clue 6, line 17, so why is it….
            clue 7, line 20. tired and weak
            clue 8, line 22, effort…..
            clue 9, line 24, title to the….

            Those are the reference lines, but there is much more into them that makes them a clue. The poem lines aren’t ‘independent” of the others in such that the layers and the flow of it all mix it all up pretty well, to show 1 path, 1 spot, and only 1 way to put it all together. For me…

      • After reading you guys here, I am rereading the book right now!

        “… but to the dirt, I am a Caliph”.

        I’m not betting anything on it, but I have a solve too.


    • If clues have been solved with a high degree of confidence up to the point of parking the car, should unused lines concern a searcher who has a few days to scour the area? Of course, ideally, the more lines that one can draw some meaning from, the better.

      My hope is that FF’s autobiography contained in the chest will fully explain the poem; I assume that he assumes the successful searcher may not have it 100% solved.

      • Xfiles, I share your sentiments. I would be most interested to know exactly what each line is meant to represent outside of just the location, and that the finder may not have correctly worked out each line.

        • KK –
          Exactly. What’s the poem mean to *him*? He asks us in the poem why he hid the trove; I think the answer is that he wants to give us the thrill of the chase that’s he’s had in various times of his life. Chasing a painting, chasing Lewis and Clark, and I think ultimately chasing the meaning of events in his life. As searchers, many of us are finding meaning in our own life histories as we think about the poem. Once FF found his own meaning, he tell us in TTOTC that he was at peace. The lines may represent his life’s events that are most dear to him, and that’s what I’d like explained to me. I think if I find the chest, then that night in my hotel room the chest with its gold will be sitting on one of the beds, and I’ll be sitting on the other bed with a magnifying glass reading the autobiography.

          • Xfiles, I hear you on that aspect! I would also be sitting there with a magnifying glass reading. It is one of the things I love most about people. For every question, each person has a different understanding of the context, different interpretation, and different manner of answering. The answers can be different, and still be correct- depending on the context of the question, and how those correct answers are even arrived at can be the result of very different MO’s.

      • XFiles,
        The clues can be solved with high confidence by all of us in all 4 states.
        I think you should end up with some unused lines or lines that are not clues or hints, I just don’t know which ones are which.

      • If you have solved every line successfully, and have found Indulgence, you will know EXACTLY what every line means – That seems rather obvious, even to a casual observer – JDA

        • I think it is possible to solve the poem, and not completely understand the motivation. I have an answer for each line, and a location I am waiting to search. I am in no way wise, but I am smart enough to know that there is no way I can climb into another persons head enough through a poem (or any other media) and totally understand their motivation and hopes for interpretation. I think I get it, but that doesn’t mean I do, even if I find it. I am just highly intrigued by the whole thing.

  25. BLM land, mostly wyoming. Because if you find minerals or precious metals on blm land just stake a claim, and all is yours legally. Is that why we’re told to wait 30 days for the claim to be file’d

    • I like this train of thought. I like BLM land more than private land, or other more restrictive public land, because of the ease of the “give you title” aspect.

      • Cris L,

        You may have trouble with BLM land. The best “Just take it and go in peace” would be National Forests or Wilderness areas. No NPs, nor State parks.


        • CharlieM;

          BLM and National Forests have identical regulations. In both, if you “find” something of value, you are supposed to take it to the nearest office and detail when and where you found the item. It will be held in escrow for up to 90 days while they endeavor (right) to find the rightful owner is made. If no “owner” (Forrest) steps forward, the government can say that it is in the best interest of the “public” that it be liquidated, and that the proceeds be retained by the Forest Service or BLM. RIGHT!! I assure you, If I find it I will turn it in – RIGHT! JDA

          • JDA,

            I disagree, From The Daily Beast interview with F on 02/28/2013

            “who owns the land where Fenn hid the treasure? Not Fenn, or so he tells me. He won’t confirm that it’s on federal land—“too big of a clue,” he says—but he feels darn entitled to use such land as he pleases, no matter how sacred ground. “I own the government,” he told me. “I’m a taxpayer.”

            Also, remember F paid a lawyer 8 grand to ask that very question. I simply cannot believe F would hide the TC knowing full and well it could be taken away and the finder gets 0.
            I don’t think so.

            He used the land for a treasure hunt for all to play a game of sorts. He didn’t disturb the land or anything upon it. He only left something.. when someone finds the treasure F transfers ownership, game over one wins.


          • CharlieM;

            I am not arguing Forrest’s intent. I am only stating what the law is as I have read it, and been told it is. A “Finder” is supposed to turn it in – Will the finder follow the law? Probably not. If the finder does follow the law, turns it in, and immediately notifies Forrest (if he does not already know) I am sure that Forrest would notify appropriate authorities that he is the rightful owner, and has three books and hundreds of thousands of people who would back him up. The Forest Service returns Forrest’s “Lost” item to him, and Forrest then “gives” it to the finder in appreciation of his/her honesty. End of story. It would be impossible for the Forest service to claim that Forrest was not the rightful owner – end of case. – JDA

          • Hi Friends,

            I have to think Forrest has left some kind of instructions in the chest for the finder. I know he has not said that, but he did say he left something he does not want to talk about. Suppose his instructions are there, and they make it clear what the finder is to do; Then the argument is null.

            There are 2 kinds of people in the crowd who are looking for the TC; The first is the one who wants the notoriety and will make it known. The second is the kind of person who will never tell anyone, but might follow the detailed instructions Forrest has left with the TC (might or might not).

            What if someone finds it, and is NOT seen finding it, and that person takes it home and never tells anyone? Would Forrest end the Chase and never tell us the solution? Really there are several kinds of end results to consider. Going public means a lot of attention from a lot of people.


          • JDA,

            The TC is not a “lost item” F can get it at any time. Anyone can use the NF for any activity so long as it is left the way you found. This is a treasure hunt no body lost anything its an activity that a lot of people are involved in. It would be darn hard for the FS to say otherwise.

            If it where truly a lost item of value and there’s no activity going on of any sorts, then I would agree.

  26. FF wanted us to experience the thrill of the Chase? Who else was chased? FF was chased in Vietnam. Joe Meek was chased in Yellowstone. The Nez Perce were chased through Yellowstone. But I don’t want to experience that sort of chase. I don’t want to go down those rabbit holes again.
    I do think that the chest is in the northwest area of Yellowstone.

  27. Please make sure your comment is appropriate for the topic of this page…
    “I Think the Chest is Here”
    Use other pages to discuss other topics such as “The Blaze” or “The Poem” or “Where Warm Waters Halt”… “The Book”…etc..

    • Sorry Dal,
      But Didn’t Forrest say the chest was within ___ ft of first two clues?
      I could be wrong but
      If Begin means ‘begin’ then getting at ‘location of chest’ is nearest first clue perhaps which is wwwh, right?
      So do you want to know closer than wwwh?

      I’m trying to help here get within feet of tc …where it could be imho….and only way to do that is give places near www.

      So here ya go with species mentioned above in my posts about wwwh.
      Madison Junction (hike\lakes), Mammoth Hot Springs {travertine), Gallatin river (smallest of three forks rivers).west Yellowstone all mentioned in my posts above of where I think it is. (But many others exact place of tc near wwwh are in other states also of course)

      Alos you did say not to tell too much…so I was layering.

      Either way…all of my responses above on wwwh were to help others to get within feet of where it’s possibly hidden,.
      Sorry if I was posting in wrong place though. You can delete the posts hopefully.

      Side note: I also think it can only be seen from a particular angle such as from upstream of wwwh. But still very near wwwh.
      Again, sorry ifI broke any rules or offended in any way. I only meant to help answer your question, but there are so many options to share where I “think it is”. Maybe put me on moderation and you choose which to share if I get too chatty? Or limit me to 1-3 posts? I’m ok with that for sure.

  28. I have a search area in southwestern Montana which I stumbled upon while searching GE for clues related to a very specific solve…
    While searching for possible hidey holes, I noticed that the undergrowth in a certain area exhibited indications that the area might once have been home to some sort of native American encampment… An undiscovered archeological sight..
    I can find no reference to this sight anywhere on the internet but there are other such sites relatively near by (within 25 miles)..
    The sight is otherwise unimpressive, no reason for anyone to really go there, but it is fairly accessable and could easily have been stumbled upon by Forrest and/ or his father during the course of their adventures…
    And that is all that I am going to say
    Can’t wait for summer!
    Happy hunting!

    • That’s really cool! But how did Google Earth allow you to see under the treetops to the undergrowth? What were the indications, if you’d share generally? I can see if this site had just been logged then the undergrowth would be captured by a satellite.

      • Through clearings amongst the trees…
        Very subtle hints that there is something going on with the soil in several 20 foot diameter circular areas …. Much like you would see in a fungal induced “fairy ring” but much more geometrically perfect..
        Only botg will tell for sure and even then only if there relics to be found on the surface… I have no plans to excavate…. Even in an exploratory manner….

          • Covert One,
            Google-ing “Tarry Point Circle” brings up some tough geometry equations related to triangles. Is that what you’re referencing?

          • I’ll leave the advanced geometry to you Covert One… I’m more of a calculus guy ! Though I suppose those paths do cross…
            I believe that the poem and any eventual solve should be fairly strait forward… If you squint at it just right and use a little bit of imagination… No intellectual acrobatics required… But a little bit of old fashioned luck wouldn’t hurt! Don’t forget to take your lucky rabbit foot keychain!!

          • Lurker, luck won’t help with this one. FF ensured that even if someone is lucky they won’t “happen” upon it. IMO

            I prefer good old fashioned logic and imagination – thanks, but I’ll pass on the rabbit’s foot.

    • I like watching shows that focus on the old west. This one should be pretty good. Good luck in the Yellowstone area Cynthia…it is going to be packed with other searchers!

    • I agree Cynthia.
      Yellowstone is a top ten contender.
      Latest book
      ‘What do Dabich and Chocolate have in common?’
      Brown hat & brown cuppa? Sitting on top yellowstone map.
      Ice lake wwwh?
      Tired bike push w coach
      Misty\smokey grebe But this is end and not drawing nigh which is instead Gaul’s dead dog = canine = wolf lake?
      Easy but long ‘tired’ bicycle hike
      Echo in box canyon

  29. Here is a challenge. Take The Poem and “marry it” to the “geography” around your own home. Or your back yard or anyplace else that you choose. You will soon see that Forrest made it so simplistic and vague that it literally can apply to anywhere. That is why -knowing- where to “Begin” is the absolute key…only then, will you need to be “wise” and “look quickly down.”

    • LMN, I agree 100%. I often do this in my head when I drive through the red hills and mountains of northern NM. Your suggestion of using one’s home and yard is perfect. An acre is about 210 feet by 210 feet if it’s square. Fenn said searchers have gotten the first 2 clues, and were within about 200 feet of the treasure chest. So you have to “see or discover or find” the last 7 clues within that approximate acre. Or maybe a somewhat linear “path” through this acre, although I think the blaze is higher than ground level so the blaze will be higher with the last clue and chest “quickly down” from it. Anyway, your “challenge” is a perfect exercise, IMO.

      • I don’t think this adds up as it wasn’t stated by f that the first 2 clues solved and within 200 feet were describing the same searcher(s).

      • cynthia, please point us to the source of FF saying
        that SEARCHERS have been within about 200 feet
        of the treasure chest. I think something has been
        lost or changed in “translation”. Thanks in advance.

        I believe that PEOPLE (not necessarily searchers)
        have been within about 200 feet of the treasure
        chest. These people would include FF, Peggy, and
        Doug Preston . . . before the chest was moved to
        where it now is. All IMO.

        • tighterfocus,

          I can answer your question. “Searchers have been within 200 feet” f. Huffpost interview 02/04/15

          • There is also Forrest Gets Mail #9 (11/2/2015) from this site: “Are there signs that people are getting closer to solving your puzzle? How many clues have people solved now?”

            Forrest replies: “Searchers have come within about 200 feet. Some may have solved the first four clues, but I am not certain.” So it’s definitely searchers.

      • Cynthia, I think a searcher could have figured out the first 2 clues but not necessarily have been at Clue 2 when they were within 200 feet of the TC. Darn it.

        • SeeN: agreed. And I think every searcher who has been within 200 feet of the chest *did* solve the first two clues, otherwise they would have had no reason being where they were and bothering to tell Forrest about it.

          • There have been some who have been within 500 feet because they have told me where they have been. Others have figured the first two clues and went right past the treasure and didn’t know it…f. 8/28/15

      • Cynthia, Mr Fenn has indeed said this but I believe that this is a useless clue, tossed out there to see how the Searcher Nation would handle it. And we have been debating it for years, I suspect to his amusement. It is my belief that the word searchers, in this case, refers to archers, likely elk archers. The archers is easily seen in the word searchers. The phrase with “first 2 clues” , I believe, references materials said archer enters the field with. If you don’t see that, translate the word “first” into Spanish. How about now? Not a biggie, but, I think the only nugget to be gleaned here is that the chest is in an area frequented by archers in the Fall. In other words, well off the beaten path. Please note, just my opinion, certainly not a known fact. Lori

        • Thanks, Lori, for your idea…could be but I really don’t think so. When Fenn said/says “searchers”, he means us “searchers”, those of us who are searching for his treasure. Context is extremely important of the question asked to Fenn, and his immediate reply to the question. Also, IMO.

    • Good guess Marcelo!
      Unfortunately, I think that the entire area is already knee deep in the shattered dreams, crushed egos and discarded crumpled treasure maps of searchers past….
      I doubt if anyone has tried dismantling the arch though…
      Maybe you’re on to something!

    • Marcelo,

      I would hope you can reconsider the Arch. F said, “I said on the Today show that the treasure is not associated with any structure. Some people say I have a desire to mislead. That is not true. There are no notes to be found or safety deposit boxes to be searched. The clues can lead you to the treasure, and it will be there waiting when you arrive.”

      I hope this helps.

      • Charlie M- well stated. the treasure lies just beyond the arch, not at the base. Yellowstone National park.

        Yellowstone is not associated with a structure.
        the clues will lead you to Yellowstone.
        Yellowstone will be there waiting when you arrive.

        i made myself clear.

    • Marcelo-
      Not likely since we know Forrest originally planned to end his life in this spot and he would see animals and trees and that there is no human made trail near the hidey spot…
      In my opinion the hidey spot is not near a populated area such as the arch at Gardiner. It is likely in a beautiful and somewhat isolated area with a view and probably near running water.

      • Yes agree.
        And in a red ochre burial like in prehistory, perhaps? (Away from possible animal discovery of bones.
        Like cache pit, or inside much piled wood or a bier ‘up in trees’ swinging like Tarzan..)

      • I only found two more likely places in Yellowstone, because of the proximity to the slopes and 7,000-foot altitude:
        Ojo Caliente or Madison Junction.
        The two have WWWH.
        The two locations have HoB, no paddle, no meek, heavy loads, high water between them.
        The two have the canyon.
        In both Forrest, he’s been alone.
        You can go by bicycle.
        The two have beautiful views.
        They have the scents and the animals.
        But I did not find the “BLAZE” !!
        Maybe it’s on a perimeter that we have to explore.

        • A lot of folks probably like the Madison Junction area. There’s a lot of blazes of color due to the thermal areas. Some theories downstream from there tie to Queen’s laundry while others that put wwwh further up the Gibbon might tie to areas like Paintpot or One Hundred Spring Plain. There’s probably as many theories as there are creeks.

          Looking at one of these put another idea in my head about the blaze that might narrow down the blaze in these blaze filled areas. (Posting it under the blaze section)

          • There seems to be many that think Madison Junction is WWWH. I think there should be a shotgun start in 2018 there! Of course, that might scare the bison so probably not a good idea.

          • just seems to obvious and easy. Then again, if I was to hide a Mickey Mouse doll, I guess I would hide it in Disneyland.

          • Charlie, I think FF is a master at hiding right within the obvious and a master at hiding specific, necessary information so far away from obvious that it is almost impossible to decipher.

            Disneyland is a perfect place to hide a Mickey Mouse doll.

          • Disney is pretty cool. Benefits of living close= Fireworks show every night. Can set your watch to it.
            Who knows, the chest may be hidden in plain sight. In a dense, no trafficked, forest. To bad he didn’t hide it in the Pirates of the Caribbean ride. Disney might not like everyone getting off the ride to look. Yo-Ho-Yo-Ho….

  30. This may have already been discussed, but without going though all the posts I apologize in advance if it had.

    I have two solves that seem to be on the mark in Yellowstone other then the blaze. My thought is could FF be bringing us to a general area to be wise and follow our blaze to the TC?

    • If your TC was at the blaze, or near it, I guess. But even that seems to general. If you have a solve, and it doesn’t take you within a foot of the TC, best get a new solve.

      • The best possible solve won’t define the search
        area as being smaller than a square meter. For all
        practical purposes, a searcher will be able to get
        within perhaps approximately 20 or 30 feet of the
        TC, but will have to look for it (or its nearby “protecting/covering device”). I think a flat slab of
        dark stone may be the thing to seek.

        The above is part of my opinion. Please don’t
        under-estimate anybody who posts on this blog
        (regardless of “handle”).

        • Tighterconvergence, that is good advise to not underestimate anyone who posts on the site regardless of their posting name. I agree – much brainpower is focused on solving the poem.

          Regarding a correct solve, ff made a comment about how close the correct solve would be to the spot. Now, the interpretation of ff’s comment is a separate matter by itself.

        • the solve will take you “right straight” to it. If f can go right straight to it, and the person that solves the poem knows what f knows, then they can go right straight to it.
          It doesn’t sound like f to have someone solve the poem, and then have to look around. He has commented as much.
          Maybe Murmur doesn’t know all the ATF’s. Idk, but with f’s comments, it’s easy enough to understand that the poem solve will take you right to the chest. Not a general area. Then again, I don’t know Murmur’s definition of a “general place”. So my reply is meant to help. Not underestimating anyone, if that comment was directed to me. If this general area is roughly 200′, then maybe, as long as the rest of the solve gets you within 1′. If it’s 1 mile, maybe not. Unless the rest of the solve gets you within 1′.
          I don’t get the logic here about 20′-30′. I know it’s your opinion, but f has said it will take you right to the chest. 20′-30′ is not right to the chest. Especially in the forest. If somebody is walking by, sees a black stone slab, wouldn’t that seem out of place in the forest? Not very many black slabs out there, so couldn’t somebody just stumble upon that? Most likely. It’s hidden very well, in a forest that can hide things very well. That people are not going to venture in unless they have a good reason. There are no notes or signs that tell you, you have to go to a different spot to find the chest. It is right there, where the poem told you to go. The whole poem, not 14 or 16 lines.
          Murmur, if you have your blaze, and the poem told you to follow whatever it is to the spot, that is what you do. It will take you right to the chest. If you like your solve, and it takes you to a general area, but you must follow a blaze to another spot, and that is what the poem told you to do, then do it. Just know, it will take you to within a foot. Or at the most, a couple steps. You will know, no searching around will be needed. If the poem takes you to a 20′,30′-50′-100′ away from the actual chest location, then you still have work to do with your solve.
          THE BEST solve will take you within a foot…….

          • At least that is your opinion Charlie. Forrest has NEVER said that the poem will take you to within 1′ – And THAT is MY opinion – JDA

          • charlie & JDA,

            I think somewhere F said, (not quote) that the person solves the poem can go to the TC with confidence. That in its self to me is saying go right to it and retrieve it. No with in a foot or inches, no searching, just right there.


          • CharlieM;

            Here is the quote you are looking for:
            5Q) From receiving feedback on hunter’s ideas and methods about how to discover the location of the chest, do you feel confident your method in hiding the chest will eventually be understood and the chest be found? Please know, I am not asking for any specifics. My question is more like, do you still feel your poem will lead someone to the treasure?
            The person who finds the treasure will have studied the poem over and over, and thought, and analyzed and moved with CONFIDENCE. Nothing about it will be accidental. T. S. Eliot said:
            We shall not cease from our exploration
            And at the end of all our exploring
            Will be to arrive where we started
            And know the place for the first time” f

            A bit different than what you are saying. He doesn’t say that “the person solves the poem can go to the TC with confidence.” He says instead: “The person who finds the treasure will have studied the poem over and over, and thought, and analyzed and moved with CONFIDENCE” JMO of what Forrest has stated. JDA

          • P.S.

            I do think that following the clues, I will CONFIDENTLY get within about 10′ of Indulgence. Once there, I am CONFIDENT that things that I have learned from the hints and ATF comments will get me to within a foot or two, and what I then observe will get me to EXACTLY where Indulgence is secreted. Just the musings of an OLD fool – JDA

          • JDA,

            “analyzed and moved with CONFIDENCE.” from your quote from F.

            When does confidence end? At the TC. You go right to it from where your car is parked.

            Just Say’n 🙂

          • FF made it clear how close a “correct solve” would be to the spot….within several steps (or something to that effect) Look up the quote on TS.

            All of the other distances are speculation IMO.

          • CharlieM;

            I totally disagree. I can be confident in my interpretation of all of the clues – including the last clue BUT, if the last clue does not get me to within several feel, I am not guaranteed of finding it. I will be confident that I have solved the very last clue only when I am holding Indulgence.

            Let’s take a hypothetical: Let’s say that Indulgence is concealed in some manner – be it buried, in a bunch of bushes, hidden under a ledge etc.

            The last clue take me CONFIDENTLY to this general area. If I do not KNOW it is buried, will I find it? If I do not KNOW that it is now overgrown with bushes – will I find it? or if I stand on top of the ledge, but do not go below, and see it secreted below the ledge will I find it? Of, course the answer to all three hypotheticals is a resounding NO!. I can CONFIDENTLY go to all three locations, and walk home empty handed. ONLY if I have discerned information, that may NOT be in the poem, will I hold Indulgence. JMO – JDA

          • I find this a great area of conversation and very helpful.
            I have interpreted ‘look quickly down’ as having two possible meanings: you are at the blaze, so look down so you don’t trip over the TC.
            OR, look map south. In this case, the TC could be some short distance directly south of the blaze, so if I was to walk directly south, I could potentially trip over it. (Ouch!)

            After my first few preliminary map searches, I came think of all the instructions as directing me (us) to a very small area where only minimal search is necessary. Maybe it was my belief that if I was writing directions, and then obfuscating those directions, the original un-obfuscated properly named clues would clearly lead the reader to a ‘spot.’ For instance, as the poet, I have in mind a favorite fishing spot and when I walk the stream to my spot, I can see in the distance some feature, a blaze steady drawing nigh, and that then became the TC resting place with the other clues selected to get me there.
            With that in mind, walking south from the blaze for some indeterminate distance would not be accurate enough in my opinion. Maybe I am straying into the realm of poem architecture, but I am now much more strongly considering that the TC is there, at the blaze.

          • charlie, since the poem is not a long
            one, it would have to be pretty specific to lead a searcher to within
            1 foot of the TC. This would likely require a landmark of sorts. Here’s an example:
            If the poem’s proper interpretation takes you to the front door of the Empire State Building, that’s very specific, as the front door is likely
            to be not more than about 6 feet
            wide (a double door). But the TC
            is likely to be out in the wilderness,
            perhaps in a forest. Probably any
            landmarks there are natural, rather
            than made by people. So unless
            a natural thing is very narrow, such
            as a passageway, it’s not likely to
            restrict the search area as much as
            you suggest. But none of this is
            likely to be a problem for one who
            correctly solves the poem. All IMO.

          • FF said: It seems the longer one thinks about the search the more they complicate the problem.
            “Go with confidence”

            You will probably second guess yourself… It’s all in the poem….IMO

          • JDA shared this on March 16, 2017

            “The person who finds the treasure will have studied the poem over and over, and thought, and analyzed and moved with CONFIDENCE. Nothing about it will be accidental. T. S. Eliot said:
            We shall not cease from our exploration
            And at the end of all our exploring
            Will be to arrive where we started
            And know the place for the first time” f”

            In my opinion, the important phrase is at the end of that quote of Mr. Fenn’s – We’ll arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.

            Some of us have pondered the intention of what Mr. Fenn is alluding to in this phrase. IMO, he might be saying something along these lines: We’ll arrive where we started – because we have solved the poem before heading into the woods, when we reach Indulgence we’ll be back at the beginning of our quest. The beginning becomes/is the ultimate end and the end is the beginning of being there for the first time to enjoy the bounty. Again, my hope is that some of you can understand my mumblings and catch the gist of what I am trying to convey. It’s kind of circular thinking, but really, to me anyways, it’s just great word play with double or treble meanings – and until we ponder all the meanings – we really don’t “get it”.

            Oh, and, looking good , Dal! 🙂

    • Murmur- yes i believe Forrest has led us to a general area. and the area to be searched would be a mirror image of that general area. much smaller in size and scope but just as majestic as the general area. i say smaller because this is where children have the advantage. using their imagination. and much safer than the general area, just for the kids sake. this would be a great place to put the chest.

      amusement parks are set up this way too. things for adults and things for kids. of course Yellowstone is not an amusement park. but there should be a Yellowstone amusement park and zoo built to reduce the number of human visitors to the real park to a minimum.

      i think.

  31. It’s just after midnight so I’ll have to say that yesterday was a great day! After 4 years of off and on study, I’ve had an avalanche of clue verification. So excited for this close “wrap up ” of clues.
    Since this post is about where are we searching, I’ll say New Mexico. 2 good solves here and one in Montana.
    I’ve connected why the pic of the “Hat tree pic” of FF’s friend in Albuquerque is important to this solve. It is a clue to how to interpret HOB. Also clues from what HOB is. The pic of the boys playing marbles correspond to the “spot”. And the simple “X” marks the spot is clearly shown at this site. It’s actually fun again after sitting on the side lines for the past few months. I’ve felt like I’ve gone in giant concentric circles until so many clues have fallen into place. I might say again but yesterday and today are in sharp focus. Thanks FF. Perhaps a Major’s daughter will find this. I’m hoping so.

      • Thanks Murmur. I’ve revisited Montana and Wy. However my favorite solve to date is New Mexico. The big drawback is that there are no trees in close proximity. I’m thinking this might be a deal breaker bc ff said one would see trees? Everything else seems to fit but no trees. Elevation is approximately 7400. My question is: Does the end solve have to have trees in close proximity? I’m thinking it does but want to know what other people think about this..Thanks for any replies..Colleen

        • Colleen, Here is one of several ff quotes about the treasure being in the trees. I definitely think you need trees in your search spot, IMO. Over @ Jenny’s in reply to ” Outta Here” http://mysteriouswritings.com/featur…unt-its-a-map/

          ” Stop arm chairing that thing to death and get out there in the trees where the box is, but before you go, look at the poem as if it were a map, because it is, and like any other map, it will show you where to go if you follow its directions.”

          • Well that quote is pretty clear! Thanks Cynthia for your reply. BTW as I was just about to type this reply I got a Security warning saying the certificate for this site is not trusted then got a phone call saying it was my last chance to lower my credit card interest rate! I don’t have a credit card. Not sure what’s up with that. Just FYI.

    • Hi Colleen,

      I’m curious. What is this “hat tree pic” you speak of? Is it from a picture that’s inside of the TTOTC book? Just wondering. Thanks!

      ~ SFTE

      • Hi SFTE,
        The “hat tree pic” isn’t in the book. I saw it about 3 years ago and can’t find it now. Dal probably could tell you. It’s just a pic of one of ff’s business partner-friend who is sitting down next to a 6 ft hat tree with about 10 or more White cowboy hats on it. Early in my searching I figured HOB was aviation related and I used the Native American Indian navigation points which consist of 6 points. We use 4 of course..North.South..East .West. Indians add Up or sky and Down as Earth. Up or Sky is called Brown by the Indians. I just found a clue confirmation for me when I recently found Albert White Hat a Lakota translater from the Rosebud Reservation. He also was the translator for the movie Dances with Wolves. Etc..other clues are picing into this tangent which may or may not mean anything but it’s still Fun..Colleen

          • SFTE,

            Just to clarify look at an Aviator’s map. Airports are encircled in brown. “Put in below the home of Brown” alot of people think a “put in” is for a boat to a water source but it can easily apply to an airplane “put in” to an airport. As in Below the home of Brown. Sky..

  32. Wyoming.

    I have become fascinated with the concept of confirmation bias since I began this journey. Cautious not to fall victim, I have tested a number of my solves, and ended up discrediting them. I now have a solve that I tell my family is “the” location. I cannot discredit the solve, and so I will have to venture to the location later this year. I will move with confidence. I am not worried that once at the location I will have to muddle about — the chest will be there or it won’t.

  33. Southern Wyoming. (IMHO) I’d love to give more details of course, but I will be heading out within the next month or so, so I can’t say exactly where. However, I honestly believe that the poem – which has been dissected every which way but loose by tons of searchers – cannot be properly used unless you have a solid starting point/general area (E.g., state, county, mountain range, canyon, river, etc.). That being said, let’s all remember that Mr. Fenn put 15+ years into writing this poem and planning the hidey spot where Precious now currently resides; meaning that the Home of Brown (for example) doesn’t necessarily correlate with a historical person and/or a monument of any historical person as those answers can be easily searched via the internet. Let’s all keep in mind a specific phrase from TTOTC, “What if a butterfly was really a flutterby?”. Perhaps all that we have read and all that we seek is “backwards”? IMHO, of course. Best of luck to all in the 2018 search season!

    • Seeker-From-The-East

      Very solid thinking. I have a question for you; What is your definition of “heavy loads”? Can you share this?


      • Hi Franklin,

        Sure, I can share my opinion on “heavy loads”. I think it could either be large, downed trees (perhaps from an old logging camp) and/or large boulders sitting near a river bank. IMO.

        • Good ideas. “water high” follows immediately after “heavy loads.” This might insinuate these two features will be quite near one another. Or is that why you suggested the river bank — to be “water high” ?

          • NovaKid,

            I actually think both notions are highly possible. I personally believe that “water high” and “heavy loads” are relatively near to each other. In fact, I’ll also venture to say that Home of Brown won’t be that far away from these two areas as well. Well, my idea of what the “Home of Brown” is anyway, which possibly isn’t what others might have considered yet. Or maybe they have? :p


        • IMO- “They” used to mine galena along the “water high”. There is an ancient trail (haul road) leading out of there littered with galena ore. If you find that spot be very careful. More than one person has died crawling over those rocks. Watch out for the catti and snakes.

          All IMO


          • Sherif Billy,

            I fully agree with you on that ancient trail. And yes, rattlers, cacti and jagged rocks, oh my! 🙂 Headstrong I may be, but careful I also am ~ Yoda


          • Sherif, it would appear that galena might be an old and reliable source of lead for the “heavy loads”. I did not know what galena was/is. Learned something new. Thanks

      • Ken,

        Actually, no, I did not mean to rename it. I guess I was thinking of Lord of the Rings rather than the Thrill of the Chase when I wrote that statement. LOL. And good luck to you on your next travels, as well.


    • SFTE, You said “That being said, let’s all remember that Mr. Fenn put 15+ years into writing this poem and planning the hidey spot where Precious now currently resides;” Not sure if you meant FF spent 15+ years on just the poem or also planning the hidey spot. I think most folks agree he knew of his “special place” when he got cancer in 1988 which he says is where he hid it. There’s also a quote that he didn’t need a map or any other information when he wrote the poem because everything was in his head. And a quote saying he would make this place work no matter work… meaning he had to write the poem to direct us searchers to this special spot where he ultimately hid the chest. I like your idea of the flutterby and all that we seek is “backwards”. Good luck in your search, too.

        • Dodo Bird,

          Honestly, I would not know how Yellowstone would be “mirrored” or backwards as far as clues are concerned. Honestly, I am staying far away from Yellowstone in 2018. I just think it’s way too big to cover, way too crowded (E.g., park visitors), and also because from what I’ve read via this site, it’s been searched to death by many folks posting here. And I’m sure more are headed out there in the very near future. 🙂 I actually started my research on YNP when I first became aware of this treasure chest 3 years ago, but backed off of it shortly thereafter because of different hints and/or better solve theories from the other three states involved. IMO.

          But, if someone does find Indulgence in YNP, then a huge congrats to them from me, as that searcher/s has put in some serious time,research and hard work to find it there! Safe searches to you in the future! 🙂

          ~ SFTE

          • Eastside Seeker ~’way too crowded (E.g., park visitors), and also because from what I’ve read via this site,..’

            While there could be other reasons…. don’t listen too closely to others opinion about YSP. There are many places without crowds one can go in YS, and in the off season as well… [snowmobiling areas, line of thinking].

            This could be, in part, the “planning” we are told we should think about, along with observing and thinking etc. A need for a special permit or pass to travel those locations, line of thinking. Personally, I have ruled out the idea [ for the most part ] of the park, because of other reasoning… the least would be because other searchers think it too crowded, or been search to death.

            Apparently many, more than several [searchers] have been within 500′ of the hide… That didn’t seem to concern fenn too much about how well the chest is hidden, or as he said; not be stumbled upon.

            Just rambling and rumbling….

          • Seeker,

            All very good and strong points. I appreciate your input, thanks. BTW, I like the moniker you typed when referring to me, “Eastside Seeker”. I wish I would have thought of that one when I first started posting here. Safe searches to you in the future!

            ~ SFTE (a.k.a, Eastside Seeker)

          • I would venture to guess that about 95% of visitors see less than 5% of Yellowstone.

          • It sounds like there are more and more folks abandoning the idea that it is in YNP. I just read at the GK site they will not search there.

            Seems also there are many folks that are now focused “downstream” of YNP but I don’t believe it’s there. IMO

      • Cynthia,

        Sorry, I actually wrote that comment in haste. I typed “15+ years”, but I had assumed that most of the searchers on this site and also out-and-about right now had known he knew of his hidey place well before writing the poem. I had just meant that between writing the poem within TTOTC and also the subtle hints he included within said book, that he knew very well how to merge the poem and hints together so PERFECTLY that it makes this book “A Prized Piece of Treasure All Unto Itself”. Safe searches to you in the future! 🙂

        ~ SFTE

          • Hey Morecowbell,

            I’m not headed out again for several more weeks. Hopefully by Memorial Weekend.

            ~ SFTE

          • Sounds about right to me. Hopefully mother nature cooperates. I’m getting impatient lol.

    • Marcelo de Brasil,

      I see you are still pushing a Santa Fe city limits solution. I was the one who inspired ff to clarify his “North of Santa Fe” hint to be the “Northern city limits of Santa Fe.” Forrest was gracious enough to quickly answer an email before I got into real trouble with the law by saying, “Sorry, the treasure is in the mountains North of Santa Fe,” to which I replied wryly, “So am I.” It was a realistic enough solution that got me off the couch and onto an expensive, last minute flight, but it was a costly mistake.

      It had it ALL! Actually, 8.25 miles North (of the -Southern- city limits of Santa Fe). From an old hot spring that quit flowing, to a street called “Canyon,” down to the Home of Brown (oldest home in the West first photographed by the famous western photographer Mr.? Brown) and left, left, left to “no place for the meek” (behind, San Miguel Chapel), to an old paddle directional sign that was removed, leading to the heavy loads (huge concrete blocks) around a fountain (waters high) in the courtyard and a blaze (sign) that – someone (I thought ff) – made way too big for the poured concrete curb! “Look quickly down!” This HAD to be the blaze and ff (the metal worker) must have donated the sign so that he could secret his trove directly below the 10″ x 6″ overhang! All in the courtyard of the NM Division of Tourism…where they did a FF Chase video standing right next to the “waters high” fountain.

      Hidden in plain sight! Too perfect!!! Right where he could drive by to keep an eye on it. However, the dude that poured the extra little block of concrete, so that he could place the 4th bolt hole into a useless appendage of concrete secreted no chest below. The fact is, after that complete solution, (3) heavy bolts on that sign (blaze) were correctly anchored into a concrete curb and (1) more, heavy bolt, was anchored into a little concrete -brick- that served no purpose other than to conceal the mistake of the contractor, or perhaps to conceal the ff trove (of that exact size) underneath.

      It was then, that I realized this poem really can fit thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands (did I mention – several – thousands?) of paths PERFECTLY and scenario’s EXACTLY yet, unless you know there the correct WWWH is really located, you are wasting your time, money and energy.

  34. MARCELO,,

  35. ps MARCELO,,

  36. Subscribe.

    Since I haven’t rcvd any post notifications, I thought I would try correcting it with “subscribing” again.

    Thanks Dal.

  37. 2/4/2017 MW Six Questuons:
    No, fresh eyes and new thinking might provoke a winning idea. I would advise new searchers to look for the clues in my poem and try to marry them to a place on a map. It seems like the longer one thinks about the search the more they complicate the problem.f

    ff is saying: **It seems like the longer one “thinks about the search” the more they complicate the problem (Poem)

    IMO..FF is saying to get out of your head in the pysical search and back into the poem. If you are trying to follow where you think I have gone to my spot in you mind while reading the poem and not shifting away from the physical search, one will only be lost in the mountains like it has been for the last 7 years. Think! how many times FF has told us to go back to the poem and to follow the poem and where that takes you. When I read the posts, many searchers are not in the poem but out in the woods in there minds or on a map guessing and trying to figure out distances, what is Brown, meek, heavy lodes, water high, and even the Blaze (I have done the same). I am convinced that if one would get out of the woods and away from the maps and get a comprehensive understanding of what the poem is telling us without the thought of the physical search it can be done. I am suggesting to first get a comprehensive understanding of what the poem it is telling us whatever that might be! Then marry that to a map. For me it feels like its on the tip of my tongue. I am starting to understand the architecture to the poem. Then I think about the search and I lose it because that is what my mind likes to do, go in circles…lol. ff thought of everything even the fact that people’s opinions just like mine will hinder a person to think and move with confidence. I am posting this in hope that it might shift some thinking and to document my understanding to a resolve.

    Good Luck!


    • One more thing. I am not very book smart and I don’t write well the best thing that happened to me is when my father told me I would never make it. I retired at 37. That doesn’t mean I made it. I am probably in Forest fenns 7 percent club. That motivates me much.

  38. Murmur,

    That is what I’ve been trying to relay, all the ATF comments by F are things that might be helpful, but human mind sometimes over complicate things even in riddles or in this case of the hunt and questions that ask for logical answers.

    I agree, stick to the poem and marry it to a map, hopefully in the beginning hopefully one has the correct wwh.

  39. I think the Chest is in Wyoming, I’ve searched all over the state, Pretty sure I stepped on the location a few times, Now that spring is here its time to bring it home with me or just leave it there for others to find, Maybe take it and share with as many as possible and give Forrest his bracelet back. THANK YOU so much Forrest.

  40. Here’s something I’ve done more than a few times for each solve. I would try to put myself in the shoes of Forest Fenn carrying a TC with, for the sake of argument, let’s say two million dollars worth of contents. Knowing the history, lifestyle, dedication and hard work of Forest Fenn, try to write the poem as if you were he. Imagination comes to mind immediately.
    So, as I read his poem, for me it tells a story. Yes, the clues are there, but the entire Poem, in my opinion, is important. I understand, that emphasis is on the nine clues, but let’s try to imagine that the remainder of the poem compliments the clues.

    So, here goes without the rhyming, jazzy, whimsical spirit of Mr. Fenn.

    First Stanza:
    I went by myself into the area where I hid the treasure
    Man, was I ever nervous, but remained courageous,
    However, I knew the hide would be strictly confidential
    and I could give clues both of the past and present.

    Second Stanza:
    Start the search where the waters are neither flowing or cold
    then take your search into the valley low
    This is not a great distance, but don’t hike there
    Next find the home of Brown and put in there.

    Third Stanza:
    From this point is no place for the faint of heart
    You’ll be glad to know you are getter ever closer
    The stream is not one for your kayak
    the weight will be difficult to carry, the rivulet steep and elevated

    Fourth Stanza:
    One who is clever will have located the flash
    Simply looked down and spied the stash
    Don’t just stand there mesmerized (and laughing)
    Grab the booty and get the heck out of there man!

    Fifth Stanza:
    I know you are thinking, why I left
    And wanted you to find my riches
    For me, I have figured out life’s special meaning on my own
    By living the dream to fullest extent imaginable, and now exhausted

    Sixth Stanza:
    I can’t say this loud enough and with upmost importance
    Your determination will overcome feelings of callousness
    For when you are courageous, while in the Forest
    You will be given the golden certificate of the winner of life!

    It would be interesting to hear other versions, but feel free to pick mine apart/add to/change stanza’s, ect, ect.


    • Thanks Dean,
      Pretty close to my version.
      I think you are on to the reading of the poem.

      • Thanks Chance, Idk, I just keep brainstorming.
        I have placed no limits or rules on my reasoning or logic…..I feel that any and everything is out there and up for grabs. If that makes any sense at all. It has certainly been a wild journey and a darn good experience for me.
        I would love to hear your version!
        Thanks again for checking in

  41. FF has said that the elevation of the TC is between 5,000 feet and 10,200

    For what it’s worth, I believe that the elevation of the TC is less than 9,000

    The above is my opinion. Yours may differ.

  42. A kid says after reading the poem
    ‘It’s a riddle with a 9 cle solution.’

    He asked if I’d looked at Riddle lake and Solution creek in Yellowstone.

  43. Hey Chris and Dal, I have a suggestion for the site. When I’m on my phone and try to read comments that are in reply below a comment they get thinner and thinner….
    Some of the ones above literally have one letter in the column. It’s kinda fun at first to try and figure out what it says but it makes my head hurt…. Thanks

    • Spallies…lol…that’s not a suggestion…that’s an observation..
      A suggestion would be “fix it fools”.

      • Ha ha yes I guess that is an observation! Here’s another one… You Fools put a lot of hard work in to provide this site for the rest of us Fools 🙂

    • Hi Spallies, it is something with the phone orientation. A quick fix will be to have your phone sideways (landscape mode) before you click the link and it will organize the post.

    • Yes I am getting that too, one letter per line. Also I saw advertising for the first time here on dals. Anyone else seeing adds on page?

    • Hey Spallies,

      I hope that all is well with you and yours. Just an FYI to you and the guys working the board. I do not have that problem on my phone. I am using an IPhone 6.


      Windy City

  44. Yellowstone does make me smile, oh and CO I am happy to hear less people will search Yellowstone that’s less competition for me 🙂

  45. I’m heading to Yellowstone in July 2018, with my wife and daughters. We will be spending 3 days in park. I have a location that I am going to check but I only have the one. If anyone following this who wants to share a solution for us to check out I’d be happy to check it out if I feel it’s plausible. Split it 50/50 it it works out.

      • I’m in Three Forks Montana tonight and heading to Gardiner for a couple days. I can swing by West Yellowstone and pick it up Tuesday. Do I have to split it with you?

        • I think it’s pretty cool that he shared a long and lat of his solve. On the other hand, does Cynthia have a job or is she just a “high tech worker” as NPR puts it on business. Lol just joking, easter holiday of course.

          • Gdogger, My “job” is finding Fenn’s treasure. Seriously, I think I have my job listed on my Income Tax Return as Forrest Fenn Treasure Hunter. Oops… I better change it to “retired old person who never leaves my house.” I am retired! I used to be a high tech worker… and then got laid off because all I did was spread my maps out and search for solutions to the poem… Ha Ha! Seriously. Been loving life ever since!

        • Say hello to Sacagawea while you’re there, she doesn’t know how to use FB 🙂

        • You’re kidding right? “Do I have to split it “? What if he’s in a wheelchair or has no money to search his solve that he worked 5 years on. You think you shouldn’t give him a cut? Geez..what a question

          • Colleen, That was tongue-in-cheek to Michael. He’s been telling me where to find Fenn’s treasure for 5 years. We know each other and occasionally trade ideas.

          • Cynthia, well now I do feel dumb..Thanks for the correction! Sorry I jumped to conclusions, Colleen

  46. Has anyone properly tried searching around Glorieta pass properly? At the very least using it as a starting point?

    • Glorieta Pass is south of SF, right? Not home to look at maps but when I drive through there on I-25, I’m definitely south of SF.

        • Don’t know what NPR considered it but I worked as an engineer in an Intel manufacturing plant. We were told we were “high tech workers”… ha ha… maybe not so much. Seemed pretty “high tech” at the time.

          • Gdogger- a high tech worker’s work is highly technical. so highly technical is this work they work that you wouldnt understand it. the work that is. so work on something else Gdogger, like finding the chest. give it (the chest) your best shot. i suggest a nikon. worked properly for best results. a nikon is highly technical to work. so be careful Gdogger, or you might shoot yourself. we wouldnt want that to happen.

            i think.

    • Glorieta is somewhat SE of Santa Fe. We explored it a bit on the way to another solve. Not much in the way of clue-connection. Was a fun jaunt around the rocks but a lot of it was closed off for reasons I couldn’t discern.

      • Hi Sean: Glorieta Mountain is a VERY famous meteorite strewn field location. It’s a beautiful meteorite type as well: pallasite with a nice ratio of nickel/iron to extraterrestrial peridot.

        • And Zap makes me pull out my dictionary. Interesting, didn’t know that about the meteors.

        • Hi Sean – given Forrest’s love of finding ancient artifacts and fossils, I bet he’d get a kick out of meteorite hunting. Nothing older to be found on earth than 4.5-billion-year-old rocks from space. And a person who can spot an arrowhead or a mastodon tusk is the same sort that can be quickly trained how to differentiate meteorites from terrestrial rocks.

  47. My wife and I are in Santa Fe now, our first expedition to find FF’s treasure. We are here for 4 more days. Searched many areas around Jon Dunn’s Bridge and thought we had followed the clues exactly and even thought the “blaze” was the man made rock trail blazed across the old torn down bridge. Searched everywhere but no treasure. We did have a wonderful time searching together. Thank you FF.

    • Welcome to SF! Just moved here a few month ago. Enjoying being close to the search but also digging the town.

  48. I was reading tonight about travel into Gardiner , MT by rail in 1911. Gardiner was described as “a place one would not want tarry.” Found that amusing. That rail was closed down but there are still sections of track that follow the Yellowstone River and can be seen around Yankee Jim Canyon.

  49. Regarding Cynthia’s frozen lock. I carry a rechargeable hair dryer for when this happens. Or, you can always heat the key on your engine and work it in that way. Giving the key lock mouth to mouth to try to defrost it doesn’t work well. Plus everyone stairs at you…….hair dryer is your best bet.

  50. I think the chest is ( LOST IN THE GALLATIN’S ) , outside the boundaries of Yellowstone.

  51. Durango Colorado Solve

    I started working on the poem in early 2017. I truly had no clue so I started reading all the websites. I started with WWWH. I read hundreds of solves and the one eventually made the most sense. Her FULL solve is nuts and Fenn publicly commented on it. But her WWWH of the Durango and Silverton steam train made some sense to me. It’s been continuously running for almost 150 years. When you examine the first “it” in the poem most people feel that it means the path or journey which I agree with. But the second it using “take it” means a mode of transportation not a journey. I wasn’t totally convinced until I figured out the word halt means an unmanned train station in England. That’s when I settled on the Durango train. Also, in Fenn’s book TTOC Forrest says as a kid him and his brother were fascinated with steam trains. So you start the journey in Durango and take the train towards the canyon which is towards Silverton CO.
    When i originally settled on the Durango train and like the woman’s solve took the train all the way to Silverton CO. I read through her solve which really made no sense but then started on my own solve trying to make Silverton work. And after 2 weeks of working on it and not getting anywhere i was having my doubts about the WWWH being the Durango train. So one day I decided to call the Durango train and ask a few questions. If you look at the Durango train website, they make it seem you must take the train all the way to Silverton CO and then turn around and take it back all the way to Durango as a round trip. But i found out there are actually 3 stops you can get off the train before Silverton. And then i found out that the town of Silverton, CO was founded by a pioneer family in 1846 by the name of Brown and it all started to come together. ( read attached website on the Brown family of Silverton) I believe Fenn is telling us to get off the train BEFORE Silverton or below the Home of Brown which is Silverton CO.


    There were 3 stops off the train. Elk Park, Rockwood Cut and Needleton. No place for the meek is the next clue and I couldn’t figure out which stop. Then I was on Google Maps and noticed Soaring Treetop Adventures. It’s the largest zip lining course in the world at Rockwood Cut. I’m virtually positive Fenn’s no place for the meek is that zip lining course at Rockwood Cut. It’s Fenn’s way of telling us to get off the train at Rockwood Cut.
    The end is drawing nigh means you’re walking now. If you pull up Google Maps and take a look, there’s a creek right there at Rockwood Cut. It’s Elbert Creek with Elbert Creek road running right alongside the creek. A creek with no paddle means to me walk up Elbert Creek road. We ran into problems walking up that road. The road is called CR 200. Unfortunately it’s been privatized.
    The final clue took me forever to figure out. But I’m very sure it’s right. If you’re walking on Elbert Creek road you pass a bunch of electric wires from the Tacoma power plant which is heavy loads. Then, CR 200 goes between 2 reservoirs which is water high. As you leave the road there are no paths and you enter Weimouche Wilderness which is part of the San Juan Forest. No mechanized vehicle are allowed there and it’s very remote. But the distance from parking your car is only a little over a mile.
    If you’re in really great shape and have some mountain experience then you could make it to the location. I’ve held back my final clue solve. It nails down the exact location I believe the TC is located. Nobody has made it to the final solve location. We’ve run into issue getting there because of private property and lack of experience in the mountains. Email me (ddenning@outlook.com) if you’re interested in the 9th clue. Doug

    • Doug you said ‘But the distance from parking your car is only a little over a mile.’
      From the time you leave the train at Rockwood Cut, how far is it to Elbert creek, the walk to the power plant, the travel between the reservoirs-?- Water High.
      And if I read you correctly, there is another added distance of a mile { from where you park }… where did the car come from if you took the train-?- and walked from the station at Rockwood…
      And out of curiosity, who owns the private road? The power co.? A private citizen?
      Or are you saying you just need to drive to the Weimouche Wilderness part of the San Juan Forest -?- and skip 8 of the 9 clues?

      • Elbert Creek is only a few hundred yards from Rockwood Cut. Elbert Creek rd or CR 200 runs through Rockwood Cut. The reservoirs are I would say 200 hundred yards from Elbert Creek heading away from Rockwood Cut. Tacoma power plant is 3 miles away but the power lines are running above right near the reservoirs. I believe Fenn drove his car to Rockwood Cut but the clues have u take the train to get u to the location. The private property is an issue. It clearly was a public county road at one time since it’s called CR 200. But it’s been privatized by a citizen. I haven’t figured out when but there was significant work done in the area building a golf course in 2012. I’m thinking that’s when it happened. To clarify distances, it’s under half a mile total from Rockwood Cut to the Creek, then to the reservoirs and then to the power lines. Just go to Google Maps and Earth and put in Rockwood Depot. It all comes up.

        • Without looking at your solve on a map at all (only going by what you’ve posted), my question would be how you reconcile the 200 feet/500 feet comments.

          • The train tracks are about 500 feet from the Solve location. So many people are going by 500 feet away. Its hard to believe somebody couldn’t see it 200 feet away but it is a pretty rough area on the Overlook.

    • Do not you think the task is too complicated? It was about warm water, and not about steam driving a locomotive. Or are we talking about fueling the engine with warm water? And how do you dissuade “And a hint of wealth of the new and the old” in general who took this hint into account? The state of Montana is a state of treasure, I think about it.

      • I think you’re right. That’s a killer for the Solve. I could just go ahead and post the 9th clue solve. It was pretty good.

        • Would love to hear your 9th clue. That area is literally my back yard. Those back country train halts are no place for the meek, no doubt.

          • OK Sandy here it is. IMO tarry scant with marvel gaze is the last clue before the Blaze. I put each word in dictionary.com to really define each of the words precisely. Tarry scant would mean fast and fleeting. Marvel gaze is something wonderful from a little distance. So I interpret that to be the overlook above the High Bridge just after the Highline after Rockwood Cut. When the train crosses the High Bridge it always does a horizontal blowdown of steam. When it does this blow of steam, many times a rainbow is created for a split second. So I believe the TC is above the Bridge on the overlook so u could see this fast fleeting rainbow
            from the train. On Forrest’s website it says go find your rainbow. This would be the Rainbow.

          • Doug ~ ‘ Tarry scant would mean fast and fleeting…’

            I just went to dictionary dot com and I can’t find your meaning of Tarry or Tarry Scant anywhere to mean Fast and Fleeting unless you’re using antonyms; which mean a word opposite to another.

            How can you pick and choose any word usage to be the opposite of their definition, while leaving others by their meanings and synonyms?
            IF you’re using “but” as ‘don’t’ then “and” joins “Marvel Gaze” to that, [ to be taken jointly with ‘don’t’ ] as something we should not do as well, right?
            Which means no lingering, no time, no gazing, no rainbow to see.. even for a split second.

  52. Thanks for your solve, Doug. While I won’t claim to be an expert, I have ridden the D&SNG (Durango to Silverton) train at least 10 times; the family joke is that I have never gotten as far as Silverton. I always get off at one the “halts” with a backpack and about a week’s worth of food and a fly rod (big smile). But, I do own a copy of “Cinders & Smoke”; the definitive guidebook to the railroad/railway by Doris Osterwald, which you might find interesting if you haven’t already discovered it.

    The “fleeting rainbow” you are referring to is a beautiful sight indeed, and definitely one of the many highlights of the journey. I’ve often wondered about such a rainbow and a possible connection to Mr Fenn.

    I don’t know this from personal experience, but I think that access to the area you are interested in may be difficult – on the flip side the overlook would not be in “close proximaty” to a human trail. I’m not sure an 80 year old man could do that trip twice from his car in one afternoon, and I’m not sure WHY he would want to be there (at the overlook). Although that particular bridge crossing offers what appears to be great fishing. Perhaps he fished there as a young man…we know he likes trains and the sound of the steam engines. Hmmmm.

    I understand your WWWH, but it doesn’t look like you have a HOB?? The bridge you are interested in, at milemarker 471.2, is cast iron according to my book. Perhaps a connection to the fire escape slide? And, right before arriving at Tacoma, the track crosses “Canyon Creek” (AKA Crazy Woman Creek – another family joke haha). Tacoma was heavily damaged in the floods (water high/heavy loads) of 1911 and again in 1970 I believe. Also, as a power generating plant, there are your “heavy loads” created by “water high”??? The history of the narrow gauge railroad is definitely associated with “riches old and new” IMO. I can find many many possible train references in his stories and poem. Good luck!

    • Wow you really know the history of the area. I flew from Tampa last summer to search out there. As you said its a pretty rough area. I couldn’t even make it to the bridge from Rockwood Cut. I still think it might be out in that area. But it’s so difficult getting 9 clues to really line up and point to one location.

      • Doug…if Rockwood Cut is your “brave and in the wood” I find that very clever. The bridge is also one of the few takeouts for brave river runners…its a gnarly canyon. Happy hunting…

  53. A few years back I was interested in another defunct narrow gauge line out of Silverton called “The Rainbow Route”. High elevations; I ran into a dead end. But pretty cool history.

  54. I’ve been thinking about how long the chest is hidden.

    FF said:

    “It was 15 years from the time that I got cancer until the time that I hid the treasure chest, 15 years.”

    So I did the accounts: 1988 + 15 = 2003

    But FF says 2009 or 2010.

    Which one would be right?

    • He said he worked on it about 15 years – this may be total years, with a break every now and then, so both numbers are probably correct. Forrest has stated as fact that it was hidden in 2009 or 2010. Count breaks in your calculations and you will be OK – JDA

  55. In my opinion, if you “Think” the chest is in a place, it’s not. You’d better “know” that it’s there before wandering the wilderness.

    FF quote- “The person who finds the treasure will have studied the poem over and over, and thought, and analyzed and moved with confidence. Nothing about it will be accidental.”

  56. If my “solve” leads anyone to within a stone’s throw of the treasure, I hope you would be decent enough to give me half. I am too old, my car is too old, and the distance is too far for me to keep zooming over there to check it out—3000 miles. Plus, I live at sea level and when not used to the elevations it is not easy tramping around… So, if my theory leads you to the doorstep, be a nice chap and allow me half. We could both live happily by sharing.

    I will discuss this bit by bit… Without even looking at the clues, I figured Fenn would be too old to hide it in any remote or difficult spot. I also thought he probably hid it relatively nearby because he would not want to take a chance with any sort of paper trail… Motel receipts, entrance passes to parks, etc. I thought he might have told about it being in certain states to limit the areas to be searched, “but” also draw attention away from NM. My idea is that it is in NM, and not far from his home.

    Google the town of La Madera, NM and then check it on Google Maps. Or find it by some other means. Note: La Madera means “The wood” in Spanish and the nearby Mountains are called the La Madera Mountains. And if you recall, in the poem, he says, “If you are brave and in the wood…” Not woods, but wood, like the mountains are called.

    To proceed: Begin it where warm waters halt—The river that flows south out of La Madera is the Ojo Caliente—the Hot Eye. Those are the warm waters, and they “halt” in La Madera. How? Because the Ojo Caliente is formed by the junction of two other rivers, so that is where it “halts”—upstream, instead of the more often thought of downstream.

    Now look at your maps… “Take it in the canyon down…” If you look at a map you will see the Canada de la Cueva not far to the south or down stream and you enter it. It is not far, but too far to walk… In other words, drive your car to the canyon and that is where you start.

    This is where it gets tricky… Not with the clues, but with other “tricks” I believe Fenn is pulling. North and south of the canyon, is private land, but the canyon itself is not fenced like those private holdings. Walk down that gaps between the private lands, you will come to a fence just before the river—a nice new fence, but it has an inviting opening in it on the south side… I think the fence is to simply keep cattle from wandering up to the road, not to keep people out. I checked with the local assessors and it is a confusing mess, with odd “companies” or groups holding some of the lands, while other parts are public. Anyway, I think the fence is not meant to keep people out—no signs and that purposely made opening in it—not a gate, but a completely open passage… Still, I am not fond of this aspect of it…

    So, passing that, you “put in” below the home of Brown. Put in means you cross the Ojo Caliente, and below the home of Brown refers to Brown trout, which live upstream, but not down this far.

    From there it is no place for the meek… You can’t see it on a map, but there is a sheer wall of rock with a lovely waterfall pouring over it—One of the surprises that made me feel even more sure about this spot. The sheer wall of rock would be dangerous to scale, but you can detour to the south a couple hundred feet and climb up safely.

    So, now you are above that sheer ledge and are “drawing nigh”… There is a draw that a small stream comes out of. No paddle is needed because it is a tiny stream—only a couple feet wide. The “heavy load” part does mystify me, unless he was simply speaking about the chest being heavy going uphill. The “water high” deals with elevation, not depth, so Fenn is talking about this stream above the Ojo Caliente River.

    Now, the part that I am not so sure of, but it DOES make sense… The blaze. Look carefully at the map. The tiny stream that goes over the waterfall is unique in many ways. It flows underground part of the time, dipping into small caves, only to re-emerge. If you look toward the top, you will see a brownish area with a definite white area in it—a blaze? That brownish area is in reality a group of springs that are covered with water plants—very lovely! The water is perhaps 18 inches deep or so, and maybe 20 feet wide…

    At one time, I thought he might have hidden the chest in that spring, but he later said it was not underwater. Still you could “look quickly down” from that blaze and perhaps find the chest along the game trail to the waterfall… There is a place where the creek emerges from underground, and then soon disappears again. There is a small cave-like opening where it vanishes… In that opening, there was a shelf of rock with an odd “rock” sitting on it. At the time I was there, I thought nothing about it, because I didn’t see a “blaze” and hadn’t considered that while mineral deposit as perhaps being it… Anyway, there is that odd rock, and I wonder a bit if Fenn might have ended the riddle with one last deception. Covering the chest in a coating of adobe or mud.

    And yes, I know Fenn said the treasure was not in a cave, but where do you draw the line between a cave and a simple hollow?

    Having seen the place, I ended up feeling more sure about the possibility than I was prior to having seen it. The clues line up in a simple, yet very clever manner. Just coincidence the canyon is a gap between two private properties? Just a coincidence there is that waterfall over that sheer wall ( no place for the meek). Just coincidence about the “water high”. And all these things fit in a relatively small area.

    As I have said, it is too hard for me to dash off half-way across the US and check it out more closely, but if I have lead anyone to it, I’d appreciate being remembered, and not by naming your first born after me.

    PS: I know others have been nearby, but I am not sure if they put all the clues together…

  57. As searchers, we need to consider the difficulty of our solutions. How hard are they to conceive? How hard to execute? How hard to search in the field?

    My belief is that the successful searcher will have a coordinate in hand before they ever leave home. And as I have far more solutions than I can ever search, I am going to start giving away possible answers.

    Bear in mind that I have not been to any of these places. If you like one, feel free to go there and see whether the chest is there or not.

    While I do not believe any of the following solutions are correct, the thought processes needed to derive them may be useful to you more than the final answers themselves.

    So, here we go. Possible solution #1.

    Answer: Sage Flat, MT
    Coordinate: 45.6702N 112.8567W
    Elevation: 7415′
    Park point: Canyon Creek Rd, Beaverhead NF
    Land: All public
    Hike: due South, .46 miles.
    Difficulty: Hard. Creek must be crossed, elevation gain 1000′ from car to coordinate.

    Point derived strictly by using linguistics and maps. No math used this solution. I consider this to be a crude, but possibly viable answer as the keywords here are “Wise”=”Sage” and “Quickly Down”=”Flat”.

    Searchers are free to decide whether this location satisfies your needs for elegance, detail, completeness, etc.

    Regards to all.

  58. Next possibility.

    Simple substitution read the coordinate directly.
    A=1, B=2, Z=8.

    Latitude from “Down” = 46.55 N
    Longitude from “Kly Down” = 113.4655 W

    Note that K = 11 was not reduced to 2. Some versions of numerology reduce 10, but not 11. So I used this ambiguity to find this coordinate.

    Elevation: 4980′

    Note while this is technically under Fenn’s 5000′ lower limit, rounding off would make it 5000′ very easily.

    Park: on 102, Lolo NF, MT, SW of Dalles Campground.
    Hike: Hard. Cross Rock Creek and uphill into forest .52 miles. No trail. Approximately 950′ elevation gain on hike.

    Land: All public.

    Solution is extremely crude, but absolutely sneaky. I seriously doubt that anyone has looked here. If you like it, have at it.

    My point, solutions don’t have to be elaborate, they just need to be extremely specific. I absolutely maintain that the successful searcher will not be forced to make a general area search in the wilderness. Rather, I believe the successful searcher will be required to oriented through the wilderness to a specific location.


  59. Next possibility.

    Variant on possibility 2 just posted.

    Latitude: 47.311N
    Longitude: 113.74W

    Again, simple substitution applied to “KLYD”, but reversible.

    Again, K=11 unreduced.

    Elevation: 6346′

    Park: End of Beaver Creek Rd, Flathead NF, MT.

    Hike: Moderate. Hike West .4 miles and downhill. Approximately 350′ of elevation change on hike.

    Another crude, but very sneaky solution. Check it out if you like it.

    My point this time: permutations change everything. This puzzle likely has an asymmetric solve baked into it. Outside the box thinking likely needs to be applied.


  60. Next possibility. Use Base 8 as alphanumeric key.


    Four corners, lower left, CCW = IDEA
    I = 1
    D+E+A=4+5+1=10 =1

    Line 22, primary verification line:
    Your = 1+7+5+2 = 15
    Effort = 5+6+6+7+2+4 = 30

    Worth = 7+7+2+4+8 = 28
    The = 4+8+5 = 17
    Cold = 3+7+4+4 = 18

    Your+Effort = 15+30 =45 = 9
    Worth+The= 28+17 =45 = 9
    Worth+The+Cold = 45+18 = 63 = 9

    Line 23, next verification line.

    If = 1+6 = 7
    You = 1+7+5 =13

    Brave = 2+2+1+6+5 = 16
    And = 1+6+4 =11
    In = 1+6 = 7
    The = 4+8+5 =17
    Wood = 7+7+7+4 = 25

    If+ You = 7 + 13 = 20 = 2
    Brave + in + The + Wood = 16+7+17+25 = 65 = 11 = 2

    And would be a + sign here. Or, R=2 , so one could add R to the left and And to the right, making both sides worth 4.

    If you like this concept, multiple solutions are possible.

    Convert the poem to Base 8 grid and look for coordinate possibilities. Use linguistics to self-select key letters. I have a list of possibilities, but I think they are all incorrect.

    Thus this comes down to how exactly do the verification lines have to solve? While these two are nice, and there’s a lot more behind them, too, they feel inexact, therefore, I kept plugging away, looking for the perfect answer. But perhaps I expect too much from Mr. Fenn (mathematically, that is)??

    Feel free to play around with Base 8. There may be something hidden in there that I completely missed.


    • A bit more on Base 8.

      Keyword: With = Wit H = Wit 8.

      Keyword in Line 2 allows one to jump into the fray immediately. One can have been wise and found the blaze (key) right off the jump. Complete poem solve in hand, including coordinate, before even reaching WWWH. Everything else would be validation of coordinate. This approach solves a lot of the back and forth arguments regarding process plaguing this board. Gordian knot sliced cleanly . . . Or not . . . Lol.

      Does this qualify as a code, or a game? You be the judge. Play around with it, or not, as you see fit.


      • So hear me all and listen good

        So (he) ar (me).

        If he is me, then it reads, Some.

        Some all and l is ten good.

        A=1,L=3 or
        A=7,L=1 or

        It’s the words that he purposely uses. Especially the last one, “good”.

        good= go od, (or go odd). To use the word “good” shows that the line knew it has odd and even values. Since we “go odd”, then,

        A=1,L=3 or

        It’s tricky because most would immediately think A=1,L=3, because “A” being the first letter, and L being the 12th. (1+2=3, so L=3). Then this would lead to searchers, if they were going this route, to think that f is using a standard letter value. This is not the case. A=7,L=1, is what it turns out to be.
        Either way you want to think, the line itself shows the possibility of an alpha/numeric system. This is from the poem, no guessing at whether he is using some different system, math is involved, or whatever, it’s just reading what the poem is giving you. Even if someone isn’t going this route, it cannot be ruled out. There is no guessing on a method, it’s following instructions, and it’s using things in a way that f has already spelled out. Spelling things wrong, follow instructions, words used on purpose in their particular spot so don’t mess with the poem, etc…
        It also follows the ATF about how the words alone in the poem will not find the chest. Numbers also.

        Not trying to knock your way, if you can get it to work, then what do I know, but, f has never said to use Base 8 as an anything. Using that is a guess in to what might be from a searchers mind, not f’s.
        I think, and just my opinion, f would make his own rules, and tell us. He would do it his way, not the standard, his rules, his chase. If f doesn’t tell us in some way, or doesn’t give us the info, the worst thing to do is try to guess instead of hearing what he is saying. Line 21 is a good example to use if we are to talk numbers. That line is so blatant, that it’s hard to read anything else into it. All because of the word “good”.

        • Yeah, man. I got you, Charlie. I specifically said that I don’t think this is the correct key, or method to solve. But it is food for thought. It shows how simple alternative ideas can be.

          I understand what you’re saying about Line 21. I think it is important, too, but my read is very different from yours. Who’s right? We’ll see. Probably neither; odds are we’re both up a cold creek without a paddle, but you have much more physical familiarity w your search area than I do w mine, so you have those aces in the hole.

          All I’m trying to do here is get some conversation going about alternate ways to approach a solution. Hopefully this proves beneficial for searchers who have not approached the poem in this way before.


          • My bad, when I posted I forgot you said possibility. Sorry. Yes, if someone looks down this road, it may pan out. The whole thing about us is that we just know there must be some kind of number system. Steps to walk, coordinates, feet, miles, whatever, there seems to be no way to find the chest without some type of number popping up, somewhere. Since we can’t just use the words in the poem, what else is there really?
            He could have chosen to just tell us there are clues in the poem, but he used a number. He’s used a lot of numbers, just goes to figure. (lol, what highway do we use, F’s age, at book release and when he got cancer, E. Sloane b-day, coins, etc…etc…etc…).
            Good Luck always, Iowaengr.
            What’s the snow like in Iowa anyway? Figure it might be close to Montana. (MIGHT).

      • Iowaengr,
        I’m just a dumb iowafrmby so bear with me, If all we had was the poem then the poem must tell us that there is a keyword, where in the poem clues us into a keyword. Is it “here me all and listen good” or something else within the poem?

        • Sorry, Dejoka, but IMO any word in the poem could be key. But some are more likely than others.

          All 2-letter words could be keys where value swaps could be hidden quite simply.

          All words with forms of “to be” embedded in them need to be checked.

          All words with numbers embedded in them need to be checked.

          All words that imply that one letter might actually be another need to be checked.

          All words that might be subtle high-IQ teasers, like “With”, need to be checked.

          But this keyword analysis is only half the battle. In fact I found it to be the easier part of the solve. For me, the harder part was to envision what to do with a revised alphanumeric key.

          Then, even harder still is to know how to evaluate answers from different methods against one another.

          Answer validation is absolutely the crux of the puzzle as I see it. I use the 8 normal uses of “To be” plus the embedded two uses of “is” plus linguistics, plus Google Earth, plus elevation finder, plus lat/long distance calculator, plus answer must be linkable to FF, plus common sense to rank outputs.

          I’ve found no shortcuts through the permutations wilderness. Unfortunately.


          • Iowaengr,
            But all you need is the poem to find the treasure, so where in the poem implies a needed keyword?

        • dejoka;

          I doubt that you are a dumb anything.

          You are going under the assumption that the word that is key is within the poem. What if it is not in the poem at all? For me, the poem, over time, begins to disclose just what that word is, but it is not to be found within the poem. It is mentioned in both TTOTC and TFTW, and has been hinted at in a couple of SB’s and ATF comments. Once you understand the “Big Picture” – you will begin to understand what the word that is key is. Just my opinion, but the only opinion I can count on. JDA

          • While I cannot disprove any assumptions JDA, my key is based on words used in the poem. But I do have an unused word that relates to Mr. Fenn that dovetails quite nicely into my solve. Even so, my solution was finished using only information taken from the poem itself and my own imagination regarding how to interpret the letters provided.

            As for the need for a keyword, Dejoka, I have multiple reasons:

            1) Mr. Fenn’s direct statement with which I’m sure you are already familiar;
            2) The lack of perfect math across “To be” in all situations led me to believe that letter revaluation is needed to make the high-correlation initial values completely correct;
            3) “Keep” = “Key P”
            4) My personal belief that the box cannot be found absent a coordinate or other numeric instructions.

            Your thoughts may vary.


          • No. If f had never mentioned anything about a keyword would it still had been sought and if so, why?

          • Come on guys, we should take this to the “word that is key” thread, but for now, of course it must be in the poem. Cannot be anywhere else, IF, it is an important piece to finding the chest. All we need is the poem. And yes, “a word that is key”. It’s in the poem, once, and it happens to answer what the key is. (Or what it turns out to be).
            All you have to do is read what f is telling us. Look at the phrase above in quotations. What word is key? Simple enough, says it right there, end of discussion. All this guessing going on, when all you have to do is read the comment. So hopefully, we can put it to rest. It’s not a key to solving the poem, it’s not some magic word, it is in the poem, (has to be), and it just answers a key part of the poem. Don’t even need it as the key when solved is the same thing. It’s just backup info. Checks and balances if you will.
            Yes, every word in the poem is key, all the clues are key, etc…etc…etc…, but in this ATF comment of f’s, he’s flat out telling us what he is talking about. Now, what you get from that number is up to you, but if you know the key, you know the number and what it represents.
            (Do I really need to say, IMO?)
            Regarding this ATF, the answer should already be on the cheat sheets as fact.
            If searchers have key words they use or if some words are so vital to their solves, that is different to what we are talking about and what f is trying to relay. Again, in this comment of his, in that ATF, f tells us what we are meant to know. To have to guess at what he’s talking about and throwing words out there is not reading his comment correctly. If searchers are throwing words out there that are key for them, fine and dandy, but, in this comment, f is telling us “a word that is key”.
            JDA, if you found some word that is key outside the poem and it works for you, that’s great, but has nothing to do with f’s comment or ATF.
            It’s just something that is key in your solve. There is a big difference.
            You say:
            “You are going under the assumption that the word that is key is within the poem. JDA, it is. Look at what you wrote, check, you will see.
            dejoka, you are right, all you need is the poem, so what f is talking about has to be in the poem. It is. But, “a word that is key’, is different then a “keyword”. The poem, IMO, does not imply some needed “keyword” as you say.

            This was an outside remark from Fenn. So it is outside the poem, but, it references something within the poem. He basically is giving us an answer to a clue. That is all. Of course, if you have all the clues answered, then it’s just support info for what you already know.
            Iowaengr, if you found something outside the poem using words in the poem, and found a key, that is also great. Like JDA, it’s to your solve, has nothing to do with f’s comment/ATF. It’s a key to your solve and is not what f is talking about. So dejoka, if he says he has a keyword in his solve, and has multiple reasons, then that’s what he has and cannot be argued until he finds or doesn’t find the chest. For now though, it is different from f’s ATF/comment, and should be understood as so…

  61. The snow is all gone here in IA. But my area in WY is still inaccessible. I’ll head west in July. We’ll see what happens then. Assuming that the chest has not been found by others beforehand, of course.


  62. Here is another, much more complicated solution method. Again, I believe this is incorrect, but there may be a way to twist this idea a bit such that it solves. For those that take the time to examine this in detail, you will likely see ideas that you may not have considered before. Hopefully this finds purchase in someone else’s mind.

    Begin it where WWH = Line 9

    Notice the “S” in “it’s”!

    The line in full reads:

    “From here it’s no place . . . ”

    I see: “Here it sno(w) place . . .” which is a possible place in the poem itself where warm waters would halt.

    Using this “S” as an intersection point, a big “T” can be drawn onto the poem. Why a big capital “T”? Because in Line 2, my “T” reasures bold. Thus for this solve, “Treasures” is the key word and “S” is the key letter node for the solution.

    There are many possible combinations for deriving an alphanumeric key using this idea. A one letter shift in any direction changes everything. So what follows from here is simply an example.

    Assume the key starts with “ereitsnoplace” for WWH.
    Then it continues into the canyon down from the “S” such the the key produces “srpawdn” . . . “wdn” rearranged mentally only suggests “down”.
    Not far, but 2 far to walk allows the leg to continue for 2 letters past the “car” next in line vertically. So add, “carar” to the vertical leg.
    Notice that Line 9 start point is 1 line below HOB, so put in below is now a validation statement of work already completed.
    From there, “I” is tricky! The end “I” is nigh! The “I” in tired to the left (nigh) of the “R” in tired finishes the 26-letter blaze for this solution.


    Ok, so now what??

    See if it validates.

    Your = 9+9+3+5 = 26
    Effort = 2+1+1+9+5+5 = 23

    Worth = 9+9+5+5+6 = 34
    The = 5+6+2 = 13
    Cold = 5+9+3+9 = 26

    49 not equal to 73, so no joy!

    But perhaps “effort” implies a logic problem? Perhaps F or T must be worth the cold??

    F=1 and Worth The Cold = 73 = 1

    Perhaps the validation concept of Your+Effort = Worth+The+Cold is incorrect??

    Perhaps a mathematical logic problem is in play??

    Have to keep looking at the possibility by examining the next line.

    If = 7+1 = 8
    You = 9+9+3 = 21

    Brave = 9+5+5+1+2 = 22
    And = 5+1+9 = 15
    In = 7+1 = 8
    The = 5+6+2 = 13
    Wood = 9+9+9+9 = 36

    29 not equal to 94

    Removing “And” from right side creates 79, still no joy.

    F + You = 22 = Brave exactly and the entire phrase by reduction. Does this confirm that “F” is the correct term for the left side of Line 22?? Or is this random hash??

    To decide, I’m going to push on and look at Line 13.

    If = 7+1 = 8
    You’ve = 9+9+3+1+2 = 24
    Been = 9+5+5+1 = 20
    Wise = 9+7+4+2 = 22
    And = 5+1+9 = 15
    Found = 1+9+3+1+9 = 23
    The = 5+6+2 = 13
    Blaze = 9+3+5+9+2 = 28

    If+You = 29 = 2
    Wise+And+Found+The+Blaze = 101 = 2

    Nice. Direct hit.

    Now look at the hidden “IS” in “wISe”

    If+you’ve+been+W = 61
    E+And+Found+The+Blaze = 81

    Looks like that play is a bridge too far.

    OK. That’s enough for me. I don’t like this one. The validation results are too dissimilar. They don’t mesh together, so this permutation fails my test parameters.

    But by changing the blaze a letter, the results would be completely different.

    For example, start on “H” to make “here its no place” and then eliminate the “I” at the end . . .

    Or do something else subtly different and the entire key changes with your thoughts such that different results are possible with every twist of your thoughts.

    I believe that perfect math is the key to this puzzle. It’s out there for those brave enough to ferret through the permutations wilderness. The main questions to consider are:

    Do the directions in the poem pertain to creating a path through the poem to find the key itself?

    Or is the key supposed to be compiled by letter swtiches without a path like the one proposed here?

    Or should the key be imagined with the help of one or two words contained inside (or outside) the poem?

    What would perfect math look like anyway?

    What other validation concepts are needed to prove a solution is worthy of BOTG?

    How many inputs would be needed to define a key? Where might those inputs be hidden?

    And many, many more.

    Best of luck to all those who venture into the numerical blizzard!


  63. A word that is key keeps leading me to Montana. It is in the book, all over the place, it is stated in TTOC & TFTW, and is also hinted at and alluded to using words related.

    My bet is on Montana this summer. Hopefully I come back saying to myself “Why didn’t I see this before”

  64. Yet another permutation to chew on.

    Start trek on “B” in “Begin,” Line 5. Use simple substitution for math to start with. “Begin” = 37 = 1, so “B” validates initially!

    Halt: “Where+Warm” = 6

    This corresponds to the “I” in “It,” Line 5

    Down: “In+The” = 11

    This corresponds to the “A” in “Take,” Line 16

    Nigh (left): “Ever” = 5

    This corresponds to the “J” in “Just,” Line 16

    Up: “No” = 11

    This corresponds to the “B” in “Begin,” Line 5.

    The full rectangular loop has been completed. But there are more than 26 letters available, so what to do?

    Try “EL” to start the blaze. Move CCW as letters suggest. Move confirmed by:

    Your+Quest+To (cease) = 196
    Counterclockwise = 196

    Yep, it’s perfect when unreduced!

    Key becomes:


    Notes: I=N . . . In
    K=G . . . heavy loads
    O=N . . . On reverses No
    T=J=10 . . . lis T=TEN
    U=I . . . You becomes I

    Some interesting stuff. Let’s see if it validates!

    Line 13:

    If = 14+18 = 32
    You = 21+14+9 = 44
    You’ve = 21+14+9+12+2 = 58
    Been = 12+2+2+1 = 17
    Wise = 2+14+20+2 = 38
    And = 5+1+8 = 14
    Found = 18+14+9+1+8 = 50
    The = 10+9+2 = 21
    Blaze = 12+5+5+19+2 = 43

    If + You = 76 = 13
    Wise+And+Found+The+Blaze = 166 = 13

    If+You’ve+Been+W = 109
    E+And+Found+The+Blaze = 109

    Now that is the type of mathematical validation that I am looking for!!!

    But it’s only 1 line, what happens next??

    Checking Line 23:

    Brave = 12+20+5+12+2 = 51
    And = 5+1+8 = 14
    In = 14+1 = 15
    The = 10+9+2 = 21
    Wood = 2+14+14+8 = 38

    If+You = 76 = 13
    Brave+And+In+The+Wood = 139 = 13

    Two for Two!

    On to Line 22:

    Your = 21+14+9+20 = 64
    Effort = 2+18+18+14+20+10 = 82

    Worth = 2+14+20+10+9 = 55
    The = 10+9+2 = 21
    Cold = 4+14+5+8 = 31

    Your+Effort = 146 = 11
    Worth+The+Cold = 107 = 8

    No joy! But You = 44 = 8

    So, now I have a quandry. How exact do the totals have to be to validate??

    Is “You = Worth the cold” close enough given the mathematical perfection encountered in Lines 13 and 23 previously??

    Not sure, so I have to continue.

    Line 17 next.

    So = 20+14 = 34
    Why = 2+9+21 = 32

    It = 14+10 = 24
    That = 10+9+5+10 = 34
    I = 14
    Must = 2+9+20+10 = 41
    Go = 11+14 = 25

    So+Why = 66 = 12
    It+That+I+Must+Go = 138 = 12

    Another letter perfect line!

    This blaze is looking good so far.

    Line 21 up next:

    So = 20+14 = 34
    Hear = 9+2+5+20 = 36
    Me = 2+2 = 4
    All = 5+5+5 = 15
    And = 5+1+8 = 14
    L = 5
    Ten = 10+2+1 = 13
    Good = 11+14+14+8 = 47

    So+Hear+Me+All+And+L = 108
    Ten+Good = 60

    No joy! But removal of So + And creates an equality!

    Hear+Me+All+L = 60
    Ten+Good = 60

    Exactly equal!

    So is this solve the one, or is it junk??

    With this methodology, it’s either all right, or all wrong. There is no in between!!

    Searchers are free to play with this. Suggest a full cross-check versus the “To Be” lines 9, 10, 11 not addressed here. These correlations are much weaker, and they put me off of this blaze.

    Yet, those weaknesses withstanding, this blaze is strong! But, for me, it doesn’t provide the level of perfection that I want to see! So, I’m giving it away for free. If you like it, take it and run!

    Suggest converting the poem to a number grid and then looking for coordinates within the grid. Who knows, I might have just given away the candy store!!


    • iowaengr,

      Can I come up for some air? Just kidding. 🙂

      Good luck with your solve and happy hunting.

      • Maybe they need something to occupy their time. Might not be a waste of time, but IMO a waste of time if trying to solve the poem.

        • Don’t get me wrong here. There are definitely numbers there that have meaning. But for a solve. Nope it won’t work.jmo

          • Soooo, since f has commented that the words alone in the poem will not find you the chest, what else do you have that is going to find the chest? Really curious, is it punctuations that put you over the top? What else is there?
            F said the words alone will not find, but never said the numbers wouldn’t, so where is the logic in thinking there are no numbers?
            You’ve been on here lately saying that you know the answers exactly. You have the solve, so, without the words alone in the poem, and without numbers, how did you do it? I’m curious how commas and periods now have become the standard to solve the poem.
            If a solve does not have a number system, or numbers involved, in my humble, correct opinion, you have nothing. How are you going to know how many steps to walk off, how far to go, what is very close proximity, how many feet one way or another, and how many clues there actually are? The ATF’s will prove or disprove a solve, best to know them.

          • Charlie;

            You say, “since f has commented that the words alone in the poem will not find you the chest,” Can you please provide the quote, time (date) place etc regarding your statement. I do not recall ever seeing anything that even remotely says this. Thanks – JDA

          • Charlie. I would love to give you all the answers you are digging for. I will say this. The poem is not enough that is true. Punctuation in the poem is not correct. Words in the poem are not exactly what they mean. I will say this when you understand what the Blaze is the very first line will make sense. When you figure out what the 16th line means, the 4th line will make sense. It’s relative but not numerical. There are a few numbers that are on specific pages that talk but don’t point. Hundreds of hours researching and hundreds of hours of lost sleep. Reading and re-reading. I really don’t want to say more.

          • MW’s…

            Hello Forrest,

            If in 500 years all a person has is the poem, and no back story: they don’t know “in the rocky mountains north of Santa Fe” or that there are 9 clues etc. Could a person reasonably just use the words in the poem and find your treasure chest?

            Thank you ~Nope
            Thank you Nope. Nope. f

          • JDA, Seeker has supplied.

            Travis, (why do people always throw out the time they have worked on the poem, like it’s some kind of milestone that must be achieved?) If that was the case, you are way, way behind. Believe me, I dig no longer.
            figuring whatever line to how you see it is not the task at hand. It’s figuring how f sees it,
            First off, The blaze cannot be solved, so in figuring it out, you’ve side stepped an important ATF, Which cannot happen if you are to solve for the blaze. I don’t doubt you haven’t solved for a blaze, just not the one in the poem. As far as line 4 goes, the answer is three.
            As far as line 16 goes, the answer is “take the hest p-a-g-e-n-o-a-d-c-e, or just take the hest page 133, which is “two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead”. It has to do with “the shadow”.
            you said” Numerical solves IMO are a complete waste of time” and you are entitled to your opinion, but if you are going to say it, please have some info that backs up your statement. You are right, I don’t understand how you view lines 4 or 16, so I will not understand. I’m not trying to solve your poem either. You don’t want to say more, that’s all fine, but if you can’t explain the ATF, and the reason there are no numbers, then you haven’t said anything, so more is not a question. The guy even put an exact amount of coins in the chest and gas remembered it all this time. Especially since in the book, he said hundreds. He could still prove whatever point by saying hundreds, but he gives the exact amount. That alone should give searchers cause to look into why.
            I’m really curious, when you’ve come to the end of your trail, path, or when you start walking how are you going to know how far to walk? How many steps? How far in the forest? How does f know searchers have been within 200′, 500′? Sounds like he is aware of a distance.
            Can you prove a “Book of days”, that’s a number. How about the 24th letter? 2442, what is that? Looks like 6 and 6 to me, what is the sixth letter?
            I’m just saying, if you want to knock something, just back it up with info, I will happily help any noob that only has hundreds of hours of time spent in trying to solve the poem. We don’t even need to see eye to eye, I in no way think Iowaengr has the right numbers or setup, but I can respect a searcher trying to solve the poem, and putting ideas out there to try to help. If you had spent hundreds of hours trying to see why some people think there are numbers, you may be better equipped to conclude and say, “no numbers”, instead of not looking into anything and commenting “no numbers” and not backing up the statement.

            JDA, I hear you thinking. Of course I do not believe that the words in the poem will not lead to the chest. They will be used in some matter, and they are our reference, BUT, f did say what he said, just like not giving the correct info to solve the blaze, hoB, or warm waters halt.
            The ATF’s are almost scripture in regards to the chase. Can’t pick and choose, but you know this already. They must be addressed, and again, I repeat, like Seeker has said, they are the checks and balance system for a solve. Anybody can gave a solve, before Winter comes back around, before people post their solves, hopefully they put it through the ringer of the ATF’s, actually, hopefully they do that before they spend thousands of dollars looking in a spot that is nowhere close.

            JDA, on a side note, It’s sad to hear you’ve had health problems, I’m sure you would like to be out looking, but don’t give up, technology and personal people movers /scooters/ attachments can get someone up a mountain with ease. Who knows, f is rich and resourceful, maybe that’s how he covered long distances. I wouldn’t put it past him. As always, good luck, the horses are at the starting line.

          • Charlie,
            Forrest didn’t say the words alone would not find you the chest. The asker asked a question and gave an vague answer (reasonable) within that question. Fenn seemed to have agreed that the person wouldn’t have a reasonable chance at finding the treasure, nothing more.
            IMO the hints in the book lead you to the correct area to start your search, to find the WWH, after that, the clues in the poem will lead you to the treasure.
            I think the folly most people are making is that they are using the hints and subterfuge in the book to find the exact starting point, which even in Wyoming for example, will garner 100’s, if not 1000’s of “WWH” starting points.

          • Hi Charlie;

            Thanks for the long reply. I’m sorry, I missed the part where Forrest said that the words wouldn’t solve the poem – I must have over-looked it, but that is OK.

            I’m not knocking number solves Charlie, they are just not for me – they just do not compute. If they work for you and others – GREAT! Best of luck to you and the other numbercrunchers.

            Yes, the horses are in the starting gates, and are restless. My mount is sure footed, and will get me there. I may be the last to cross the finish line, but that will be OK – I will at least take home the prize. Not the prize for finishing last, but the prize of finding Indulgence along the way, while others sprinted past her Tee-Hee 🙂 JDA

          • JDA the quarter-horse. I like it.
            Now see, that is a response that I can accept. You are right, it’s not for everyone, no matter how simple or complicated. I get that, shoot, there is no “X” in the poem, how is one suppose to think that ther4e are letter values when obviously there is no “X”. It shoots down the thought, I get it. And yes, there is an answer for it, but, I do get it. It also must be derived from a certain way of solving the poem, so another hurdle, so believe me, I get it. It’s just some searchers say things but offer nothing. Constant know it alls that can’t say more but have actually said nothing. I shouldn’t fret, those are usually the ones that we don’t hear from come Winter.

            JimB, there are two ATF’s that every searcher must address.

            F, in 500 years all a person has is the poem, and no back story: they don’t know “in the rocky mountains north of Santa Fe” or that there are 9 clues etc. Thank you ~ Could a person reasonably just use the words in the poem and find your treasure chest?Nope
            Thank you Nope, Nope. f

            You have said to read the poem and read TTOTC to help solve for the 9 clues. We all know there are many options to choose from regarding, Brown, hoB, wwh, and blaze hinted at in the book. My question is, “In the book, do you also, in a more subtle way, tell which is the correct answer to one or all of the above?” ~BW
            No I don’t madam, sorry. F

            You said:”IMO the hints in the book lead you to the correct area to start your search, to find the WWH”.

            If you are saying that the hints lead close to wwwh, then okay. If you are saying the hints help solve for wwwh, then you have a problem.

            I think it’s the former, since you later state what most are trying to do to find a starting spot. So okay, I can see your within the realms of solving. But you then say the clues in the poem will lead you to the chest. I agree with that, but in your context, are you saying that the clues can be solved with the poem? That the words in the poem will solve all the clues? And that once all the clues are known and solved, then follow them to the chest? If this is the case, you have a problem, which stems from the second ATF.
            If you are just saying that the clues must be followed, well, we all know that. And yes, they will be. In your wording, I can agree with what you are saying, from your wording, but I don’t know the actual context of what you are saying, or what you really mean. It could go both ways. Either you are stating what we already know, (which there is no reason to), or your wording leaves it up to the searcher to try to interpret to what you are actually saying. In this situation, we must interpret by your words and what you are saying, the obvious, that we must follow the clues, yes, you are right, we all agree, nothing new.
            So, I can agree with what you are saying because that is what your words are saying. I don’t know what they are implying, like if you can solve all the clues or that the hints, while leading one to the area that has wwh, are actually able to solve for wwwh, I can only go by your words.
            Same with f. We do not know what he is implying so we cannot define it for him. And, if he doesn’t tell us, then we must go by his words, plain and simple.
            “Could a person reasonably just use the words in the poem and find your treasure chest?”
            ” Nope. f”.
            No matter what he is implying, what he means, or if it is even true or not, we can only go by what he is saying. And he says it right there. You could spin it any way you like, define what you think he is saying or meaning, but truthfully, the only thing we have is in the words. The question is asked, and the answer is nope.
            when you say:
            “I think the folly most people are making is that they are using the hints and subterfuge in the book to find the exact starting point,” I can agree with you. In a sense that I know you know the ATF’s, and that it is a folly to try to solve for wwwh with anything. Because I know that you know that the info is not available to do so because of the second ATF above. So your words are true, now if you say that you are not saying that or implying that then you would need to explain, so I understood. If you don’t, then I must go by the words. With f, we do not get the explanation.

    • The engineer’s mind at work. That’s fantastic! Your approach is clever and well thought out, IMO. I have looked at this poem from the acrostics perspective and the numeralogical (sic) perspective, but I keep coming back to “K.I.S.S – Keep It Simple Searchers”!

      I know that ff has said that 15 years and many edits went into creating his majestic, riddliscious poem, but I personally don’t think it requires anything other than, as he has said, a good map, the poem, and decent knowledge of geography.

      I paraphrased that from https://dalneitzel.com/2017/02/25/scrapbook-one-hundred-sixty-six-2/….a little ways down.

      Never the less, I am intrigued to see all the variety in the approaches to solves. It’s a fun observation of human behavior, the human mind, and sociology.

      • If you liked this one, please check out my string of posts above this one. I’ve posted other possible solutions that provide more food for thought.

        They start simple and ridiculously crude . . . Yet completely viable. I’m working my way up the food chain of ever more evolved solutions just to show what a serious investigation into the numerical possibilities entails, and in so doing, show that an elegant, perfect solution is not only possible, but discoverable.

        This exercise is, of course, completely ignorable for anyone disinclined towards this type of solution. For those searchers who have no interest in this line of inquiry, feel free to put me on ignore. Thanks and regards to all.

    • uh yeah, this ‘sums’ it up best (pun intended, all IMO):

      “Or do something else subtly different and the entire key changes with your thoughts such that different results are possible with every twist of your thoughts.”

      Your assumption that accuracy is only attained thru coordinates is a limiting one, not saying right or wrong, just seems narrow to the ‘poem is a map’ comment.

      I got lost in all your (letter = number) stuff…so where do the ‘coordinates’ come from? I think I gather that your ‘blaze’ will allow you to look quickly down and then …??? Seems this permutation wilderness is more of a labyrinth, so many iterations, seems you should have written a program to do it for you…guessing zaphod did it already. At any rate, good luck and keep enlightening us!

      • I’m sorry if my write-up confused you, Tbug. I tried to summarize a whole lot of complex ideas in a very short space.

        I’ll try to summarize.

        For this solution, I used directions provided by the poem but I converted the words to math in order to move around. I used simple substitution letter values initially. A=1, B=2, Z=26. I did not reduce the letters, but did reduce word totals.

        Then, once the rectangle was completed, I changed the values for all the letters per the key provided. The To Be equations used the revised letter values from this key. The mathematical results are there in black and white for anyone to judge. If you like them, fine. If not, fine, too.

        There are no coordinates provided here because i did not pursue looking for them. I discarded this key as a close-but-no-cigar answer.

        I want perfect math. This key is close . . . Very close. It could be close enough. I don’t know. But I’m giving Mr. Fenn the benefit of the doubt. I think he has a solution that satisfies all the To Be eqns, and all the other validation statements in the poem, too. Simultaneously.

        For me, this one did not pass muster. But I may expect too much?? Perhaps this key is the one Mr. Fenn devised??

        But, assuming that this key is correct, how would I convert it to a coordinate? I would look at 2 very specific sets of letters to see whether a viable coordinate was available there. I believe that the longitude should be presented vertically and the latitude horizontally in two pre-determined locations in the grid.

        This solution fails that test, so I have discarded it in favor of a key that works as I believe it should in all respects.

        The quest is what we make it. Our ability to read the poem and envision solutions are needed regardless of whether we apply those processes using math or not. Hope that helps.


  65. I think we need a page on here with columns of people’s blog names (alphabetical) and what states they are currently searching and another column with which states they have already searched and another column with states they have ruled out.

    • Iowaengr
      Next search WY, Jul 18.
      Previous searches, 2016/7, CO, WY, MT
      States ruled out, none. If the math works, I’m all in. Just never had a NM solve hit my radar screen.
      Previous experience in field has led me to refine my requirements for BOTG.
      Started w anagrams. They led me to YNP.
      Progressed to simple substitution math. Tried WY.
      Progressed to Base 8. Tried MT.
      Progressed to more refined artistic blazes. Tried CO.
      Now have a fluid math solution that seems to work across all possible validations both in and out of poem.
      Live, learn, refine, keep plugging. That’s my style.


  66. My failed Yellowstone solve:

    I’m giving up the only solution to the poem I have because it’s been too psychologically harrowing and financially taxing. Psychologically harrowing because I believe the poem to be quite subjective, that it does not have an embedded message language/math experts, cryptography/computer experts can crack. This means a person can read any number of things into the poem and get caught up in following a delusion.

    Following delusions–even profiting from them–is the province of the more wealthy members of society. A wealthy person off on a wild goose chase gets called eccentric, interesting, and his or her bank is not broken following a whim. A poor person such as myself on the other hand gets called foolish and is sadly looked upon by members of family. Poor people simply cannot afford delusions; delusions can be quite fatal to the poor.

    Therefore I am giving up my solve so the poorer people on the chase do not make my error, or if they choose to make my error they will be aware of the difficulties. My solution then to the first stanza and warm waters halt is heart spring in Yellowstone. Taking it to canyon down is daisy and fire hole river. No place for meek/creek is iron springs creek. Sun is drawing nigh is sunset lake up iron springs creek. But you look for heavy loads and water high so that is astra/hillside springs.

    Now here is where it gets interesting. I used the “Fenn/imagination/see images in things” method for the search area. Use google map topography over hillside springs and notice the big horseshoe indention. If you switch to terrain and use imagination it looks like a biddy in profile with mouth open aimed at biscuit basin. It gets still more shocking: Fenn at end of the treasure chapter in book mentions Captain Kidd/Gardiner island. Actually google a picture of Gardiner island area and superimpose it on the hillside springs shot: A match of horseshoe type shape.

    It gets even better: Look at the picture of Donny staring at camera and where Fenn mentions looking off in the trees in the thrill of chase book. At top right hand corner of photo there is a profile of a person with the same horseshoe type shape mouth area. And still better: I went to the area in question, on foot, and there is a type of entrance area with on left a massive rock formation which has type of gravestone marker type look, and the other side are two stone formations, one suggestive of the image/poem in scrapbook 165 of Fenn, the sculpture and the other something of a Native American’s head (Fenn’s pictures of Indians/braves in woods.

    Even more strange: There is a small waterfall tucked away up there suggestive of Fenn mentioning his shower having a design deficiency because of open skylight. Even more strange: the whole hillside springs area has three hill type formations which seem to match up with the three marbles photograph in chase book.

    Still more strange: Look at the stouthearted man photo in thrill of chase book with man thrusting his arm up into a shoe shape, socking it in; the fire in photo the men are singing around plus this socking motion looks like hillside springs geysers in relationship to the horseshoe/biddy face formation. I think my point should be clear: I am not entirely stupid, did not go up to Yellowstone for no reason, and yet, no treasure.

    That area I went to is suggestive for other reasons as well: It has rocks, gravel running down to base “gate” entrance like hourglass in Fenn constant “Sands of time” theme in his book. The much discussed photo in Fenn book of plane bombing (page 99) looks like mystic falls area by hillside springs when photo is upright, but flipped upside down is suggestive of the horseshoe area I mention. Feel free to find other similarities, more evidence for my solve, or even better, find reasons in the negative because I failed to find the treasure.

    I just got back from up there, climbed around like crazy, scrambled through and over snow. I might have missed the treasure because it’s quite snowed in. But I’ve had it, it’s just too mentally/emotionally and physically (I’m 54) and financially taxing. I still think the place should be checked out top to bottom, but I’ll leave that to the more rugged individuals.

    What was really strange when I was leaving the area I looked up on a rock face to the right as you go in and in area of the right “entrance gate” and saw a shining silver formation sort of like the Silver surfer face or Han solo frozen in Star Wars #2. It appears to be a silicate formation but it is uncanny…It’s clear when the sun is shining full on it. It’s not big, but if you look you’ll see it. Marvel gaze?

    I’m mentioning all this because what am I really expected to say to family members? That I would have found the treasure only if I had gone up to the silver surfer area more closely? Again, only the wealthy can afford the luxury of being so foolish. Someone like me just seems more of a loser than he already is…So there you have it, my yellowstone and only solve of the whole chase. I have never had any serious other solve.

    I hope this at least prevents anyone from the delusion I entered upon, and at best leads to the treasure for somebody. Of course I hope some of my reasoning here helps if the chest is located in an entirely different location–I hope my way of looking at things helps someone in the hunt. I tried to think it out. Hope this helps everybody.

    • Hi, Daniel. I’m sorry that your solution did not pan out. I’ve experienced the same disappointments in years past. At this point, there is little that I can say to ease your pain, so I’ll just commiserate with you. Here’s hoping that you can find peace with things soon.


    • It sounds like to me you are describing an adventure you had…..Better to have tried and failed than never to have tried at all.

      Best of luck to you;


    • I remember my first failed trip. It was dejecting. But I eventually discovered that I learned a lot more than I thought I did, and that first trip lead to many more trips.

      With some experience, a single trip need not cost more than $500.

      Psychologically– don’t take it too seriously, man. It’s a game that can only have one winner. We all have small odds of winning. The key is to avoid talking about it to anybody at all unless you are on an actual search with your audience.

      But if you didn’t enjoy your one trip then you aren’t getting the best from the challenge and there’s no point flogging a dead horse, as they say..

    • Oh Daniel… the saddest part of the story is the money-part! You shouldn‘t feel like a loser nor fool just because you tried to find it! You were BRAVE AND IN THE WOOD that‘s for sure and you should build on that positive energy! Don‘t hang your head! Look for other chances in life and repeat your efforr! Thank you for telling your story and adventure and stay brave and safe! Cheers, TLo

  67. Dear sirs: I realize people see things in their own mind that may not be as logical as they think, and I may be doing that too. Still, I can’t imagine Fenn using ciphers or cryptograms or things like that unless he never wanted the treasure to be found. It would be hard enough with word play, especially if you don’t know the starting point. Having said that…

    Above, on May 11th, posted by “John”, I gave my so-called “solution” to the riddle. If you would carefully think about the points I bring out, I would be interested in any flaws or missteps I might have made with my theory. I know others have been in that area, but I am not sure if they considered that mineral deposit as the possible “blaze”…

    Things seem to line up so well, that it is hard for me to think it is simply random, but again, I am prejudiced by this idea. Any comments or ideas would be appreciated.

    Thank you, John

    PS: When I told Fenn about my theory, he wrote back a cryptic response… “John, are you always right?” Lol, like his poem, that can be taken a lot of different ways.

    • Good morning, John. I’m pretty sure that I’m not the guy you want providing commentary, but since you asked, I’ll weigh in as gently as I can.

      First comment: You clearly have a well considered solution in mind. My question: How have you validated your ideas? Without objective standards such as the ones I have articulated, you have only your own thoughts to guide you. With so many possible choices for where to go, I don’t believe that you can find such a small object miles from civilization.

      Second comment: Any significant search of even a medium size area of mixed terrain is difficult at best. How long were you there? How many people were with you? How thoroughly did you scour the area? Did you use a metal detector? And lastly, even if you can credit yourself with doing an exhaustive, thorough job, since you have no coordinate can you absolutely say that you were in exactly the right place to begin with?

      In closing, I cannot reasonably comment on your thought process because you have no work product. You have some mental connections and a story, but nothing objective to evaluate. What makes you certain that your WWH is the correct one? Why is your idea better than any of the other possible items on the following list of possibilities:

      Confluence of warm water w cold
      Continental Divide
      Tears/Blood/Semen/Saliva/Pee/Body fluid
      Outer space
      Any other concepts not covered here

      And this is just the beginning of the puzzle. Step 1. Surely you see the problem as clearly as I do.

      You need a method. You need work product. Objective, not subjective work product. You need standards to gauge your work. You need a spot-specific place to go. You need the tools in hand to get to that spot and search it completely. Then, all these things in hand, you might have a chance to get lucky. But understand that there are millions of ways to create work product. There is only one correct answer. The odds for all of us, regardless of approach, are infinitesimally small. I understand that fully. Hopefully you do, too.


      • Iowaengr,

        I keep expecting to hear the sonic boom as you fly-by, leaving me feeling firmly planted in a cloud of dust. I appreciate your thought process, and I certainly don’t wish to spread manure on anyone’s ideas, but gosh I hope your method isn’t the means necessary that Forrest intended to harvest the fruits of our imaginations.

        My “work product” is a result of wiping the sweat from my neck with a red hankie, sunup to sundown. I’m not saying my way is how to ‘hoe the line’, but until my solve proves soiled, I will continue to allow the soil to believe…I a engineer! : )

        Either way, my money says the chest Will B located by a Heartlander. Good luck!

        • Because I am not aware of any warm water in outer space. Only ice there. And frankly, there are many hints in the poem that can be related to celestial bodies, so I added it to the list. Just another one of my outside the norm thought trains. I wouldn’t worry about it too much. Lol.

          • The solution will be how the clues all fit seamlessly together. Just because one or two seem to mesh means nothing if all the others don’t. And the starting point is bound to be luck of sorts to find. If the rest follows smoothly, and not too obscurely, then you have a shot. Frankly, I am almost certain it is a simple riddle with many meanings, not some solution that is so obscure as to be worthless.

  68. Enough with the inactionable info. Here is some background work product that is completely verifiable, actionable, and potentially useful for any and all searchers.

    I’ve stated that whenever “To Be” is used in the poem, math is implied. I’ve stated that simple substitution is “hint-level” math. I’ve provided glimpses into this arena, but I have not presented everything. So, here, for the first time, I will give you the math, all of it. Aaron, consider this my first contribution to your collaborative solve team.

    Note: All math based on simple substitution whereby A=1, B=2, Z=26; for this work, letter values unreduced initially.


    Four corners, Lines 1/24:
    Letters from lower left around CCW are, I D E A

    Four corners, Lines 2/23:
    Letters from lower left around CW are, I A D D
    I ADD!
    I = 9
    ADD = 1+4+4 = 9

    Fifth letters in, Lines 2/23:
    Letters from upper right around CW are, I S E U
    I SEU! (I see you!) = I USE (anagram)
    I = 9
    SEU = 19+5+21 = 45 = 9 (numerology summative reduction hint)

    For next section, “To Be” becomes an equal sign.

    Line 9:
    From = 6+18+15+13 = 52
    There = 20+8+5+18+5 = 56
    It = 9+20 = 29
    No = 14+15 = 29
    Place = 16+12+1+3+5 = 37
    For = 6+15+18 = 39
    The = 20+8+5 = 33
    Meek = 13+5+5+11 = 34

    Equalities available:

    It = 29
    No = 29
    IT is NO (exactly)

    There = 56 = 11
    No = 29 = 11

    There is No (by reduction)

    There + It = 56+29 = 85 = 13
    No + Place + For + Meek = 29+37+39+34 = 139 = 13

    There It is No Place For Meek

    From and The must be excluded.

    Line 10:

    The = 20+8+5 = 33
    End = 5+14+4 = 23
    Ever = 5+23+5+18 = 50
    Drawing = 4+18+1+23+9+14+7 = 76
    Nigh = 14+9+7+8 = 38

    End = 23 = 5
    Ever = 50 = 5

    End is Ever (by reduction)

    The+End = 33+23 = 56 = 11
    Ever+Drawing+Nigh = 50+76+38 = 164 = 11

    The End is Ever Drawing Nigh (by reduction)

    Line works perfectly, no exclusions.

    Line 11:

    There = 20+8+5+18+5 = 56
    No = 14+15 = 29
    Paddle = 16+1+4+4+12+5 = 42
    Up = 21+16 = 37
    Your = 25+15+21+18 = 79
    Creek = 3+18+5+5+11 = 42

    There = 56 = 11
    No = 29 = 11

    There is No (by reduction)

    Paddle = 42
    Creek = 42

    Paddle is Creek (exactly)

    There = 56 = 11 = 2
    Paddle+Up+Your+Creek = 42+37+79+42 = 200 = 2

    There is No (by reduction)
    There is Paddle Up Your Creek (by reduction)

    Line 13: (Note: 2 uses of To Be this line! Must check both!)

    If = 9+6 = 15
    You = 25+15+21 = 61
    You’ve = 25+15+21+22+5 = 88
    Been = 2+5+5+14 = 26
    Wise = 23+9+19+5 = 56
    And = 1+14+4 = 19
    Found = 6+15+21+14+4 = 60
    The = 20+8+5 = 33
    Blaze = 2+12+1+26+5 = 46

    You = 61 = 7
    Wise+Found+The+Blaze = 56+60+33+46 = 214 = 7

    You have been Wise Found The Blaze (by reduction)

    Note WisE!

    W = 23 = 5
    E = 5

    W is E (by reduction)

    Second equation is:

    If+You’ve+Been+W = E+And+Found+The+Blaze

    If+You’ve+Been+W = 15+88+26+23 = 152 = 8
    E+Found+The = 5+60+33 = 98 = 17 = 8

    If You’ve Been W is E Found The (by reduction)

    And and Blaze cannot be used here.

    Line 17:

    So = 19+15 = 34
    Why = 23+8+25 = 56
    It = 9+20 = 29
    That = 20+8+1+20 = 49
    I = 9
    Must = 13+21+19+20 = 73
    Go = 7+15 = 22

    Why = 56 = 11
    It = 29 = 11

    Why is It (by reduction)

    It+That+I+Must+Go = 29+49+9+73+22 = 182 = 11

    Why is It That I Must Go (by reduction)

    So cannot be used here.

    Line 20:

    I’ve = 9+22+5 = 36
    Done = 4+15+14+5 = 38
    It = 9+20 = 29
    Tired = 20+9+18+5+4 = 56
    And = 1+14+4 = 19
    Now = 14+15+23 = 52
    I = 9
    I’m = 9+13 = 22
    Weak = 23+5+1+11 = 40

    I’m = 22 = 4
    Weak = 40 = 4

    I’m weak (by reduction)

    I+Done+It+Tired+Now = 9+38+29+56+52 = 184 = 13 = 4

    I Done It Tired Now is Weak (by reduction)

    Note: And and second I cannot be used here.

    Line 21: Note “L is Ten” . . . hidden To Be usage!

    So = 19+15 = 34
    Hear = 8+5+1+18 = 32
    Me = 13+5 = 18
    All = 1+12+12 = 25
    And = 1+14+4 = 19
    L = 12
    Ten = 20+5+14 = 39
    Good = 7+15+15+4 = 41

    L = 12
    Ten = 39 = 12

    L is Ten (by reduction)

    Hear + Me = 32+18 = 50 = 5
    Good = 41 = 5

    Hear Me is Good (by reduction)

    All + L = 25+12 = 37 = 10
    Ten linguistically = 10

    All L is 10 (by mixed use)

    Note that So and And cannot be used here.

    Line 22:

    Your = 25+15+21+18 = 79
    Effort = 5+6+6+15+18+20 = 70
    Worth = 23+15+18+20+8 = 84
    The = 20+8+5 = 33
    Cold = 3+15+12+4 = 34

    You = 61 = 7
    Effort = 70 = 7
    Worth+The+Cold = 84+33+34 = 151 = 7

    You is Effort is Worth The Cold

    Note the “R” in “your” cannot be used here.

    Line 23:

    If = 9+6 = 15
    You = 25+15+21 = 61
    Brave = 2+18+1+22+5 = 48
    And = 1+14+4 = 19
    In = 9+14 = 23
    The = 20+8+5 = 33
    Wood = 23+15+15+4 = 57

    If+You = 76 = 13
    Brave+And+The+Wood = 48+19+33+57 = 157 = 13

    If You are Brave And The Wood (by reduction)

    Note: In cannot be used here.

    8 lines. 10 equations. Heavy correlations every time. Perfection . . . No.
    Hint that there is something going on here . . . Absolutely!
    These correlations defy statistical probability. If you want to make a case otherwise, I would like to hear it.
    Are these correlations strong enough to support looking for a coordinate using nothing more than these letter substitutions . . . Initially, I thought so. Now I think otherwise. But you can decide for yourself.


  69. Ok. Now that the background math has been identified, what in the ham do we do now?

    Well, the solution field is wide open. And no ideas have been proven or disproven yet. But I believe that success must be defined before work starts. Tjis is how I approach my job, and this remains my approach here.

    I believe that perfect math is the goal, but what does that mean exactly? Well, right out of the chute, perfection could be defined as:

    From+There+It = No+Place+For+The+Meek
    If+You’ve+Been,+W = E+And×Found+The+Blaze
    I’ve+Done+It+Now,+And+Now+I = Weak
    So+Hear+Me+All+And+L = Ten+Good

    These 10 eqn’s provide full left = full right across To Be for the 9 lines with To Be involved. No allowances for linguistic changes or other things have been provided for. This is the pure, mechanical standard only. I do not believe that these eqn’s, as presented are the end-all, be-all. But they are a starting point for a more nuanced discussion to begin.

    Anyone intrigued? Anyone want to work collaboratively to establish a paradigm for success based on this IDEA?

    Thoughts welcomed.


    • I’m a math guy myself! But it has no real ‘bearing’ in the poem. I tried to make it work for the longest time. ‘It’ even put me on a map with a ‘Brown’. Ultimately I wasn’t convinced. So I started over. And over. The moment it all came into focus for me was after buying TTOTC. In my opinion the book is pretty much required if you want to solve. I was in the camp that it wasn’t required, but alas was a fool. I could have gotten to my solve much quicker with the book than without.

      • Hey, Kal. You have blaze as boundary line azimuth east, correct? I can subscribe to that, but not for obvious reasons. Given that single data point you are someone that I would like to know better. Care to chat off-line by email about math, validations, celestial navigation, letter swaps, acrostics, logic problems and other oddities related to possible solution pathways? If so, let me know.


      • What the heck? Reading the posts it seems 75% of the people have this thing solved. I haven’t even figured out the first clue. lol

        • Lol Sparrow. There does seem to be much more confidence this year than I have seen the previous 2 years.

          I think FF’s “gut feeling” comment has lit a fire under everyone. They have either consciously or subconsciously ramped up their level of thinking out of sheer will to beat another searcher. Perhaps this was all part of FF’s plan.

          In any case, I’ve solved it too IMO and can’t wait to retrieve it.

          • Sparrow & Aaron,
            I agree with both of you. “Confidence Overload ” for a few parties this year. I count no one out, ever. I’m appreciate their confidence levels, as it jacks up my game as well. Good luck to all participants!!

        • Hi, Sparrow. If you would like a private primer, contact me by email.


          I owe you some info for your acrostics, so I’ll give you some stuff privately in return.

          Or not. As you prefer. No worries either way.


          • Iowa—–
            Thanks—I’ll shoot you an e-mail. What I would really appreciate from you, or possibly Aaron, is the directions to where the chest is buried so that I might go and retrieve it—-that’s all. If you can provide that information I will be a happy camper.

            Just kidding—–I’ll e-mail you today.

  70. Charlie, Iowaeng, JDA

    We all have our own way of solves. Don’t mess with my Poem FF has said. I could go on and on and on about what has brought me to where I am and how I’m going to get the TC. But I will not. My process of discovering what has brought me to this area of conclusion is so in our faces it is almost mind boggling that people haven’t figured it out within 6 months of its birth. I will say this that there is one picture we all have looked at from since the very first time you started researching this. And I can say without question each and every searcher has looked at this picture. Now that is up to you to find out which one and it’s significance that means what this whole chase is about. Once you figure that out it all makes sense. Forrest says Keep it simple. I won’t go further in to my conclusion. If I say much more it’s telling I’m keeping my hoodie and dark sunglasses on till this is over. Keep my 4 cards and my Joker face down

    I think it’s funny when people say they are years ahead. I’ve been here Lurking for Seven years. Just now have a thought it would be fun to comment.

    My search is in Wyoming ]![ Montana.
    I have made 2 trips this season. And headed back in with a camera man very soon.

    FYI there are 3 maps drawn into the clues and one literally shows you X.

    • Interesting take Travis. My solve has four cards and a joker as well but not 3 maps. Only one is needed. The right map. What totally freaks me out is “the joker” came on the radio as I am typing this. I’d love to hear about the 3 maps if you care to expound.

    • Well. Good luck to you Travis. I wish you good fortune. 2 Trips already, wow! – and now with a camera crew – You sound pretty confident.

      Again, good luck guy. – Lurking for 7 years – WOW Go get em’ JDA

      • Gentlemen I say what I say not being boastful or being better or puffed up above or below any of the rest of you. I’m everybit on the same playing field. I confidently feel that with every bit of the learning and knowledge I have accrued looking forward backwards left right up and down and in a mirror. That where I am headed and what is sitting there waiting will be a marveled place to definitely gaze upon. It is almost unbelievable that Forrest has incorporated this into this hunt.
        As far as the maps in the book yes without question and doubt if you look hard Enough they will pop your eyes out. I cannot say more than that.

        “Kettle Corn”

        • There’s nothing I can or will say that will change your mind, all anyone can do now is to wish you luck.

        • Mr. Brown,
          Gentlemen aren’t the only ones looking for the treasure, don’t count us ladies out just yet! While y’all are all standing around having a pissin contest, a woman is gonna slide right by ya & take the prize! IMO Best wishes!

    • Travis—-

      Are you talking about “Shadow Man”? yes–I know where he is. If it isn’t shadow man please do go on. I’m glad you have the solution. Go get the chest.

        • Sparrow and Travis, you guys sound like you have some really cool info! I am excited to see this unfold! When can this forum expect to know if you find it? I have always believed it is in Montana, is that where your search takes you? I wish I was physically able to get on out there, but I guess that is life!

    • TB, your response does not really warrant a reply. Don’t get my posts twisted, I do wish you luck, and hope you find what you are looking for. There’s a lot of questions you need to address, but if not, then you are basically going at it with only your eyes, which in regards to the chase, a multiple view of many searchers contributing to possible ways to solve leads to a better outcome, IMO.
      Your comment: “I think it’s funny when people say they are years ahead. I’ve been here Lurking for Seven years.”
      does not fit what you earlier posted. You said you have hundreds of hours, that does not fit with somebody being involved for 7 years. By the way, you are the one that brought it up.
      If you have 4 hours a day, times 365 days, times 7 years, you are slightly over 10,000 hours. That is thousands, not hundreds. It’s these comments that make it difficult to believe what you are saying. Add to that fact that there are no contributions, no ideas, and no support for what you are saying, it just makes no sense. The one with the correct solve should have a lot of answers. Even the questions that are outside the poem and not involved in a potential solve.
      A lot of ATF’s, things f has constantly made a point of remembering and repeating, etc…etc…etc… that you could answer that would not even hint at a solve but you do not. I just don’t get it. To think that if you divulge one small thing that someone will automatically know where you think the chest is, lol, come on. Actually, I cannot say you haven’t contributed, my bad, you made me laugh. now that is a contribution to another searchers well being, so I apologize. And again, I do wish you well, but if you’ve been around for seven years, you’ve heard the same type people come on here and say the exact same things you are saying. What did you think of them? Come Winter, where are they? See what I’m saying, probably not, but okay. I don’t get that someone is so positive but is searching in Wyoming/Montana. I believe there is an ATF where it is said that it’s in one of the four states. (I will look, I am paraphrasing) but Wy/Mt? What, the border? Exactly? A picture that opens up the whole thing? I could believe that the pictures have something to do in the end, but one giving understanding to the whole? Lol, that’s a stretch, but another contribution, laughed two times in one post. :).
      I have done everything to all the pictures, believe me, and yes, the pictures do have a place in the solve, but not just one picture we all know. The book has subtle hints you could talk about or answer, that may help your case. Look at the binding, why the 9 sections? Look at the pages that start with a capital letter, (a new sentence) and end the page with a period. 28 pages in the book, from 19 chapters, 1928, what does that possibly mean. Look at the chapters that have multiple pages in this form, there are 4: My Spanish Toy Factory, Stout Hearted Men, My War For Me, and Dancing With The millennium, what could this mean? Wars???
      Why are some photos manipulated? When they are on a log at Hebgen Lake, where is the shadow of the oar that f has? Why is it not there? What is “his” rainbow?
      There are hundreds of things you could address without giving up nothing, but again, you do not. It is very difficult to take someone serious in that regard. Anyway, good luck, come Winter I hope you are still around, maybe what you’ve found could help others. And remember, stay safe, hopefully you can run faster then your cameraman. Don’t forget the water…

      • Great words of advise. Thank you. I will take everything you have said into consideration

        • By chance, after your trip with camera man could you post it on YouTube?

          Or at least post on here how things work out so I can either cancel my trip or in my opinion go get the chest.


        • I would like to know if you plan on telling us your theory, should it not pan out?
          I mean, others here have stated they know where the treasure is, how brilliant it all came together, how it’s so in our face, and some others have already given excuses, if it’s not where they ‘know’ it to be, someone beat them to it.

          Are ya’ll going to man-up to what your theory was all about, should you come home empty handed?

          • No I won’t share until I have exhausted this area. I might be off 200’ or 500’ but I feel I’m dead on. Charlie like to hear himself talk it’s good for the soul.

      • charlie, I’ve been READING you for a couple years now. You have allot of conjecture and advice for others, where’s the TC Mr.? Bring it ! What’s the saying ? put up or …. As for me, If I don’t retrieve the TC by the end of this month, I will simply say “I was wrong.”

        • I will of course say I was wrong. I gladly eat my crow just like every other one we have all read about.

          No I will not post my search area no I will not show where I was until I have completly exhausted it. I may be off 200’ or yet 500’ but I think I’m dead on.

          But knowing what I know and have studied our Author (FF) more than studying this or any other blog has gave me difinative conclusion. Here is how I have came up to know what I know and how I know where I’m headed and what I completely expect to see. We as a nation do not Align with an Partner a ally until we get to really know who they are what they are and how they work what is in their minds what they eat sleep and drink. Once you do that and you are confident with it then you know how to read the person. Folks: this Chase is deeper than any of you can fathom. The chase is really knowing what your chasing. Until then you are chasing a long forgotten shadow. Or yet is right out there where it’s complexly visable bright as day?

          • Will Mr Brown I am going to give you my two cents worth,think of the person or persons lives that are with you .like Mr FENN said stay OUT OF MOUNTAINS until SNOW& MUD DRY UP that is a big hint. Most or all of land marks are under 4 or 5 feet of snow.i hope you will knot be another bad memory for Forrest. Sorry for being blunt!!!

          • Wait, Travis, you said no numbers, then you say:
            I may be off 200’ or yet 500’ but I think I’m dead on.

            How do you know how far away when numbers will not help?

            Okay, it’s your solve, do with it as you will, but, you also said:
            I won’t laugh I’ll be polite.

            What part of this:
            Folks: this Chase is deeper than any of you can fathom.
            Is polite?
            You’ve just insulted the whole community. You don’t expect some backlash?
            All right, I’ll drop it, and again say good luck, I just hope you realize the difference between confidence and stupid arrogant ignorance.
            You exhaust your area, whenever, then post your solve which only you are smart enough to come up with, and then, we will bash that thing like a piñata on cinco de mayo. With your reply to Ken, you are either the dumbest smart person I know, or the smartest idiot.
            Folks: this Chase is deeper than any of you can fathom. The chase is really knowing what your chasing.
            Besides the insult, I question your spelling, and use of capital letters. Again, it’s hard to take you serious.
            If you do find the chest, the “I told you so’s” will be out in full force…My caveman brain is done.

        • Afana, let me just hop on a plane now, just for you…lol, come on, I haven’t posted anything that didn’t need to be said. If it’s been too harsh, I apologize for my aloofness.
          Saying your wrong is no big deal, we all have been, but my contribution is solid. I have put a lot out there, if you’ve been following you know this. My comment to TB is because he says he has all the answers, but he never offers anything. That’s all.
          If you want a put up or shut up type of response, I will put my solve and knowledge up against whatever you got, and whoever. You can bring up whatever you want, I won’t hide behind, “I don’t want to say anything more”, statements. I will answer, within reason. I’m not going to give the farm away, so within reason, I’ll definitely share what I know, or what I don’t know. There are a lot of things that can be answered without giving up to much, you find it all, ask, and I will answer with 7 1/2 years of experience the best I can. I will back it up, if I’m wrong, or I think even my interpretation is faulty, I will say so, or explain. If you are trying to just make waves, then practice what you preach.
          Staying true to form, my advice, you don’t like what you read, don’t read. I don’t remember ever “judging” anyone, but since I have allot of conjecture and advice for others, I sure don’t want to disappoint.
          All I did was test him with ATF’s that he could have addressed, other questions he could have answered that reveal nothing, and still, nothing. And I’m the one that likes to hear myself talk. Unbelievable…(lol, inconceivable).
          Afana, look at this statement:
          “Folks: this Chase is deeper than any of you can fathom.”
          I’m sorry, I guess non of us could actually understand, right? We are all idiots, incapable. We could not fathom a deep thought. Thank god we have the person with all the answers, (but of course, says nothing).
          Look at his response to Ken . Are you kidding me. And then,
          Sarcasm is the ploy of the uniformed FF. Really, need to post that huh? It’s not sarcasm, you are putting yourself out there and SAYING NOTHING. IT IS HARD TO TAKE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING SERIOUSLY.
          Anyway, ask your questions, or not, IDC. You want a hint from the book, look to “environmentalist to”, the sum of them could be a “degree”. What I get is 46. There, that is more then TB has given in the last, well, ever. Forrest’s rainbow is 22 degrees, not the 40-42 degrees of normal rainbows. Look up Rainbow Halo, mountains, ice particles. OHHHH wait, I don’t want to give up too much…lol. really.
          Who dances with stars? And how could they tell what season it was? And where is one that is popular? And what does it mean? And what ATF goes with it?
          You bring it all you want………

          • Charlie, considering your claim of 7 1/2 years of experience and knowledge, and yet no TC. You’ve answered my question. So who’s right or wrong now in their interpretations. I’ve stated my position. Imo we will know soon. No waves, peace.

          • No waves? That’s a terrible thing to say to a So. Cal…Just playin’. Actually, I’ve only gone out 4 times. Finally got the solve about 4.5 years in. Haven’t been out for awhile, and not too worried about it.
            Right or wrong, if you really have seen my posts, you know I always, reserve the right to be totally wrong. The invite is there for all, any question, if I think I know it, I will answer and explain. Simple enough. You want to know how to get the numbers, okay, you want to know what the blaze looks like, okay, you into medicine wheels, fine, E.Sloane, no problem, why the particular stories are used, okay, book of days, yup, you want to know where the chest is? I might tell at the end of Summer, or I might not go out again this year. I will say this, if a searcher is trying to solve for the blaze, (what it looks like), or solve for wwwh is, they are wasting there time, IMO. This might not be popular, but you will know the end spot before you know wwwh is. You know a word that is key? Hope so, if not, just gave it to you. Everybody has things that are well thought out and may hold merit. There are no “ah-ha” moments, just things realized that are done by design.
            In the end, I may hold a lot of answers, but then again, I reserve the right to be totally wrong. (gotta love the, “you don’t have the chest either”, I’m out argument) lol, I’m gonna take my ball and go home. Peace…

  71. ” Folks: this Chase is deeper than any of you can fathom.” ??
    I believe Travis, that you may be in way over your own head. That said…I believe that you may have been better off playing your hand *before* your last few days of posts. At any rate…please be cautious out there and don’t go alone.

    • Ken. I honestly wish you knew what I know about this. When it’s all said and done you will understand. There honestly isn’t much I can say. I will say this. That Mr Forrest Fenn is a genius..

      It may seem to others I’m crazy and in over my head as you say?? Really? you can assume that. You have no idea who I am and what training I have had and precautions I have take thus far. My recon trips in the last couple weeks and seeing what I saw you would make a concerted effort as well. I am not going at this haphazardly. I appreciate your concern. Thank you but don’t assume you know who or what your talking about till you have the facts about what you want to say.

      • Sounds great Travis ! I’m patient…and will be listening for the trumpets to blare.

      • Travis Brown,

        I agree with Ken, that you are way over your head. From all of the posts that I have read from you that stubbornness, and ego is a driving factor for failure. IMO you rely to heavily on the book and ATF and not enough on the poem. That’s just my observation and don’t take offense.

        I also wish that after your BOTG and return from your solve and let it be known. Knowing fully as you say about FF helps in finding the TC, IMO only plays a small part. All of the meat of the poem plays a large part, geography, a good map and a good analytical mind with some imagination and possibly subtle hints in the book.

        I’m just say’n

        • Thank you Charlie, no offense taken. Confident I am in my solve? Heck yes I am!

          I am going to walk right to the TC “Blaze”

          Now if I can rebuttal your constructive opinion. I have said nothing about the poem and how the poem has indeed brought me to my location. I have said nothing about it because I know what I know and have no desire to share what has brought me to my BOTG. And what direction those boots are headed.
          I have stated and ended with the 9 clues. And every one makes complete sense. I have not talked about poinent words FF has used that have given me landmarks. Rivers, Canyon, Ridges, Creeks needing no paddle, etc. Ihave spoke none of this which makes you think I’m walking blind in the trees. Loose lips sink your ship. Please don’t assume of people it’s not good for you or them.

          • Well, Travis,
            I’ll say what others don’t want to… as you said; you have given ‘nothing’ to add to any conversation other than ‘ you know what you know ‘ ~ why bother posting at all?

            So I agree with you, and not so much with ken, on the aspect you are in it over your head. Honestly ken, Travis hasn’t said anything at all, only to tell us fenn is a genies, so he must be one as well.

          • Ahhh, another line 16 solver. Okay, I now understand a little more. (Sorry Dal, usually this is when I get put into moderation). So I won’t reply…..

          • Travis Brown you said, “Confident I am in my solve? Heck yes I am! I am going to walk right to the TC “Blaze” “….

            if you think that when you find the Blaze you’ll just reach down and get or pick up the chest…. you’re completely misinformed. Mr Fenn didn’t make it that easy!

            just IMHO

        • Spinning my wheels here. Good luck Ladies, and Gentleman. No need to beat down the mulberry bush.

          “Kettle Corn”

          • “Oh Mr. Brown! Mr. Brown! Don’t go I…..oh dear, they always seem to fly the coop right when I am hopeful of success. Are there any others who are quite sure where the treasure is? I would like to join you and share the fame of such a blessed retrieval. You stand a very good chance of being knighted in return. Oh please do let me know will you?”

            —-Queen Elizabeth

      • “Mr. Brown— I have decided to forego the wedding and fly immediately to the States. I will accompany you to the location of the chest. After retrieval we will split the proceeds fifty/fifty, and you will tell the press that the idea was mostly mine. I will then have you knighted to recoup the loss of fame you might have gained. Please reply immediately so that I can set up the travel plans with my personal secretary. Cheers!”

        —Queen Elizabeth

      • Travis Brown, Since your recent recon trips and seeing what you saw, are you willing to say when you will be retrieving the TC ?

        • I wouldn’t worry over TB. Well maybe one kind of TB!

          He might play a hunch and get lucky but some of things he’s posted don’t align with certain aspects of the poem IMHO. If he’s made two trips and not recovered I don’t know what to say????

  72. I love the humor here. I feel like I belong. 🙂

    The chase reminds me of the parable of the blind men and the elephant…..from Wiki:

    “The parable of the blind men and an elephant originated in the ancient Indian subcontinent, from where it has been widely diffused. However the meaning as popular proverb which derived in the history from original is different from the each other country or domain. It is a story of a group of blind men, who have never come across an elephant before and who learn and conceptualize what the elephant is like by touching it. Each blind man feels a different part of the elephant body, but only one part, such as the side or the tusk. They then describe the elephant based on their partial experience and their descriptions are in complete disagreement on what an elephant is. In some versions, they come to suspect that the other person is dishonest and they come to blows. The moral of the parable is that humans have a tendency to project their partial experiences as the whole truth, ignore other people’s partial experiences, and one should consider that one may be partially right and may have partial information.”

    It might be a wise thing to be reminded of as the season opens……Happy Hunting 🙂

    • “One cannot describe an elephant correctly until you have seen the bottom of their feet”

      —-A crippled ant in an elephant parade

  73. There are no rules that a person must contribute to help people reach a solve here that I am aware of. That being said, while Travis may be confident and a bit arrogant he has offered a few thoughts that I think are helpful. I’ll take whatever I can get from other searchers thoughts and ideas. We know he searchers in Yellowstone and we have this from him, which is good enough for me:

    “Punctuation in the poem is not correct. Words in the poem are not exactly what they mean. I will say this when you understand what the Blaze is the very first line will make sense. When you figure out what the 16th line means, the 4th line will make sense. It’s relative but not numerical.

    My process of discovering what has brought me to this area of conclusion is so in our faces it is almost mind boggling that people haven’t figured it out within 6 months of its birth. I will say this that there is one picture we all have looked at from since the very first time you started researching this. And I can say without question each and every searcher has looked at this picture. Now that is up to you to find out which one and it’s significance that means what this whole chase is about. Once you figure that out it all makes sense. Forrest says Keep it simple.”

    • Aaron,

      I agree about the rules and about taking what one can get……I appreciate anyone who shares thoughts & ideas, as I know I can only understand the small part of the elephant I am “feeling”. Hearing the thoughts and ideas of other people has helped stimulate and on occasion, direct my thinking. And I also understand why some people choose not to share….there are many reasons. Lack of confidence, or not knowing how to say things to help without giving away too much of their solve(s)- which is the boat I find myself in much of the time.

      Learning from each other is a good thing to practice, IMO.

    • Minute 10:45, Q: Does the book give me any more information than I would get from the poem?
      A: “There are some subtle hints in the text of the book that will help you with the clues.  The poem will take you to the chest but the book by itself won’t.” f

      Ya see Aaron, When someone makes a claim that a pic or illustration has a significance to the “whole chase”… wouldn’t it be nice to talk about how that is remotely possible when we have fenn saying; hints in the ‘text’ of the book that will help with the clues?

      Some one has to be wrong or at the very least explain how fenn says one thing and they claim another. That would be a nice concept for a ‘blog’ dedicated to chatting about the challenge, and not so much blowing hot air.

      • IT would be nice for someone to offer up more information but IMO just saying that one has significance is better that saying nothing at all. How many people are looking at this blog and saying nothing? Dal has given us the stats. We can complain about that too but when we say anything on here we should know what it means.

        IMO it is okay to ask a person for more information but we cannot expect it, especially here on a public forum. We have to take what we can get. Use it if we can and if not move on. But expecting people to give up more on a public site is not a reasonable thing to ask. Any free information is good information IMO. I prefer to be thankful for what others do provide out of their own free will.

        • Well said Aaron. It’s just too bad that some here also insist the evidence, or at least that’s the way it comes across to me.


        • Aaron,

          The stakes at this game are very high and I am of the opinion there’s a lot of “table talk” going on here.

          Remember SB 179 where Forrest said “……..I learned when researching my J. H. Sharp biography that the elderly Taos Indian models wouldn’t answer my questions about the artist. I quickly discovered that if I said something to them that I knew was wrong, they would correct me, on and on, and tell me things I wanted to know. ”

          Just be aware and be careful.


      • Whaat ? Seeker…have you not been down this avenue? How many times now? The info gets thrown at the wall…it sticks for some…and not for others. Just funning a bit. It definitely is good to put useful stuff up for ALL to see/share.
        To counter the argument now…Fenn could have easily just said my book TTOTC like he has from the beginning…this one I think may have been a possible *nudge* to rein things back in a bit. Never the less…he DID say “text”. Maybe that only counts for some, and not others?

        • I own all 3 books and have really opened TTOTC. He said: sprinkled and it is def enough to locate the Chest. Less is more to much info to much message clouds your senses. Learn to read or dicect the words that started this and it will finish it alone. IMHOO.
          Humble and honest Opinion.

          Be respectful.. your opinion as no better or less than mine… HaHa but mine is Right. Just goofing..

          • TB,

            Look for information from the time of the TTOTC launch.

            Interviews, videos, FAQs, texts.

            Analyze this information and compare with the latest.

            As some of Fenn’s speeches have changed over time.

            You will be amazed at the cleverness of FF.

      • I can play devil’s advocate here in the interest of contributing to the discussion.

        If we want to parse this statement, it’s possible to say “subtle hints in the text” without saying “major hints in the pictures” and yet both could be true.

        And before you come back with the second part of the quote about the book not being able to take you to the chest by itself, please consider that you’re likely to start more hint vs. clue time-wasting (imo) and maybe just think through all the past discussions on that and how they would apply to my devil’s advocate argument on the quote.

        • FMC,

          I’m sure fenn doesn’t want to show his hand, yet how far do we bend the ATF’s before they become absolutely useless for thought. Especially when we have many to consider.

          I mean, I don’t recall anything to suggestion of ‘Major Hint-ing’ from the idea of the use of the book.

          Here’s another Q&A that seems relevant;
          Q~ Does somebody need to read your book to find the treasure or do all the clues exist within the poem?
          A~ They don’t need to read my book, but the need to read the poem. The book will help them, but they can find the treasure if they can decipher the clues that are in the poem.
          Or the more noted ATF;… the clues are not deliberately placed to aid a seeker…

          I would think a photo that presumably, as Travis stated: ‘significance’ to the “whole chase” would be very deliberate, regardless of where in the book it is located.

          LOL, but I agree… if only we really knew how fenn differs a hint to a clue, that would be most helpful. Especially after the useless clue comment of yesteryears. I guess all we really have to go by is; hints helps the clues, but a clue gets us to the chest, line of thinking… especially since we are told to follow them [9 clues] “precisely”

          Seems to me we just can’t add more “clues” that we are supposed to have, no matter how convinced we think it might be.

          See, this was fun… you chatted your thought, I gave a response. Maybe another will join in… I think this is what a conversation about the chase, is about.

          • oooooh, I want to Seeker, but I’ve already given too much. Anyway, I’m half way home with my ball, and I don’t want to play anymore today…:)
            It’s really tough thinking of the hints in the book. For one thing, we don’t know what the clues are, so how do we know what hints will work with the clues? We could very easily take things out of the book that we may think are hints, supply them to what we think a clue might be, and convince ourselves that we are right, when actually, it wasn’t a hint, and the supposed clue is not really a clue.
            It’s too broad and vague. I think that the only way to know all, what a hint is and what a clue is, is when the searcher already has the chest. It’s the only way. We know of two clues, but also know that f has not supplied the info to solve those two clues correctly. And I mean solve correctly compared to knowing for sure. (as there have been some who have solved the first whatever clues and didn’t know it, etc…).
            As far as the pictures go, yes, the ATF could be used to say he didn’t say pictures couldn’t help, he just said that some hints are in the text. Doesn’t mean there not in the pics too, so it could be stretched both ways. Text only, take out of context of the comment, pics too, it’s not what he is saying, it’s what he’s not saying thinking. Now a picture that is the means to an end. The holy grail, the destroyer of worlds, the thing that holds all the answers, well, I don’t believe f would do that. He has manipulated some of the pics, so there is something within the madness, might be not the pics so much as maybe the thought around the manipulation of the pics. Whatever it is, it’s not a waste of time to delve into the world of the pics. If f put some attention to it so it may stand out, then it’s worth a look to see what a searcher may come up with. But we all know the pics, and some of us have put those pics through the ringer, to only find f having fun, and maybe his reason around it leads to a searcher being a little more “wiser” in their perspective.
            Not to say someone might have found something that I haven’t, but as far as the pictures, IMO, one of them is not going to give an understanding of a solve for the chase. And there is no picture that is going to make a searcher correctly understand the chase or where the chest is. Again, I have extensively plowed into the pics, every which way, the only real pic that says anything that can be construed as being important is the map from TFTW. A lot of pics may have very small hints, but the map of TFTW is the only one that I see that I can say, ahhh, that’s an okay hint. lol, so take it as you will I guess.
            Most of the hints in the book are in the text, and that goes with the ATF, and seems to hold true. Any huge hint to end all hints would be found within the text, IMO. And that is not to say that there are such hints in the book. We are suppose to be able to only have the poem. A poor person with no internet, no book, no nothing except for a copy of the poem should have the same chance of finding then someone with all his books and the use of the internet. I think f had thought about something like that. It wouldn’t be fair to the redneck who couldn’t afford the book because he needs to feed his kids. That guy or gal should have the same chance, as long as they had the poem. I see f addressing that very issue and making any adjustments he needed to make, to make it as fair as possible. If f put some highly needed hint within the book, he then is giving whoever can buy the book favored info, and those who could not buy the book, left at a disadvantage right at the get go. Anybody see f doing that? I don’t think so. Seeker, as you said:
            I would think a photo that presumably, as Travis stated: ‘significance’ to the “whole chase” would be very deliberate, regardless of where in the book it is located.
            It would be deliberate, and unfair. And in reality, f didn’t do that, come on…Common sense, you know it, I know it, everybody probably knows it. It’s just common fodder for this time of year in regards to the chase. It took a little longer for someone to unwisely put down the masses because they need to think they are smart and we be dumb. If anything, I need to apologize for saying that they are not contributing. It’s been fun talking about it, may not be a contribution that fits the arrogance, but it is one all the same. Where’s Zap when I need him, ahhh, the good ol’ days. At least Zap had answers and gave some thought to a subject and argue it to a draw. (and no Zap, there is no comparison between you two, just havin’ fun). At least Zap I could respect his side, and his comments. In this situation, I can’t muster any respect for someone who says:
            “Folks: this Chase is deeper than any of you can fathom.”
            and doesn’t at least somewhat apologize for the statement or say it’s not what was meant.
            It’s okay, I think most of us know that he doesn’t know anything. Whatever, I agree with what FMC is saying and to what Seeker is saying. We don’t need to get into the hint/clue thing again, I think we all pretty much know anyway when something just is not logical. File the one tell all picture away next to the all mighty magical word.

        • Hi FMC: Your devil’s advocate interpretation of “subtle hints in the text” still allowing for the possibility that there are other hints/clues in the illustrations or pictures is a logical distinction that I’ve been trying to convince Seeker of for years, but without success. For instance, if “A” is “subtle hints in the text” and “B” is “glaring hints in the illustrations,” Seeker’s interpretation is that if Forrest only says A is true, but says nothing about B, then he insists that the answer equals (A and not B). This is overly restrictive, and an improper application of logic.

          Since Fenn wrote (unsolicited): “It seems logical to me that a deep thinking treasure searcher could use logic to determine an important clue to the location of the treasure,” it would seem to me that we need to be very careful about our assumptions when excluding possibilities from consideration.

          • I would exclude absolutely nothing about FF, but I would filter out the acceptable from the unacceptable.

            An example that can be applied:

            The photo on the SB where FF holds a fish and says it does not remember where the photo was taken.

            FF remembers every detail of his life, but will not he remember where he was fishing with a friend? A giant brown trout?

            This SB (IMO) makes it clear that it was near where he hid the Chest.

            Whoever identifies the location of the photo will receive a prize (CLUE) from Forrest.

            This is my opinion only, but very tempting.

            So … what if?

          • No doubt the post-find conversation is going to be fast and furious.

            Assuming we get/I give (ducwidt?) even a fullish solve description, I suspect application of atf comments, ttotc interpretations, etc will continue to be found for awhile.

          • Ohhhhh, I hate to do this, and I’m usually in the “Seeker” camp, and have his back, but in this case, (ohhh, I’m gonna hate myself for saying it), I’m with Zap on this one.
            Now I have to go wash out my tongue…

          • Time to buy a Powerball ticket… Charlie is agreeing with me on something. ;-). “Always tell the truth.” Just not necessarily the whole truth. Forrest seems to have doubled down on this philosophy by devoting a Scrapbook to the Wilson Hurley trial, don’t you think?

          • Actually, Zap, Seeker is wise to not “argue from silence”. That line of thinking is very sound. It does not negate the other possibilities, but rather only works with what has been revealed. Many textual scholars work this way.

            You say tomay-toe and I saw tomah-toe. Viva la difference!

  74. This may not be the correct thread for this particular comment, but I have a hard time settling on just one possible solution for WWWH. There are so many..SO MANY..places in the search area that could fit this. After reading and engaging with the blog, after seeing so many well thought out (mostly) explanations of other searchers solves, after using a thesaurus and dictionary to ensure (ha) the interpretation of the poem, I have no earthly reason to suspect that I have the answer.

    I know that finding the WWWH is the key to finding El Tesoro but there are so many different “warm waters”. Warm as in temperature? Warm as in cozy? Warm as in close? I love this and I love the banter between searchers, but let’s keep it above board. Don’t stoop and insult. Be open to criticism. Be quick to compliment. As a general comment about society as a whole, we’ve lost our civility. My disagreement with you doesn’t mean I have slighted you. It means I don’t agree. When did that become a bad thing.

    Have fun. Work your solves. Come here to chat with like minded individuals. Get outside with a map and smile and have fun.

    Just my 2 cents. Sorry for the rant.


    • If it helps any the WWWH that I have found has two meanings. There is a physical WWWH that relates to geography and another that relates to the entire solution. Both located in the same exact spot strangely enough.

    • Dawiser,

      IMO, that is how you find solutions to the clues- by thinking of the words in every possible context, and researching in each different context. So you look for “orange waters” (a warm color) in name or appearance. You look for “friendly waters” in names or appearance, you look for water that halts in some way, etc.

      I think you are doing it right, it just takes time- I read the first two books, the scrapbooks, the ATF, the other blogs. Something somewhere triggers a thought and you are off and running. If you get bogged down, (IMO) there is nothing wrong with researching the other clues. The clues are have order, but your research doesn’t have to. Sometimes taking a break and reading new/different info triggers a thought about another clue. Happy Hunting!

      • Dawiser,

        After banging my head on the wall several times I stopped looking at maps and mentalised the entire poem, which was very difficult because of the language.

        With the poem in mind, and open to ideas from friends here, I went to the maps.

        Those were complicated days. 12 hours a day. Suddenly a FF story opened up options. I can say what it was: “Tea with Olga.”

        Then ATFs, tips and advice to confirm my ideas.

        But as we are subject to seeing and hearing only what we want, I know that I may be wrong.

        That’s why I keep considering any new ideas.

        Do this, focus on the poem and what each word means. Word by word, line by line, stanza by stanza.

        FF describes a place in the poem. Forget journeys of tens of miles for each lane. The poem is a small treasure map and not a travel guide.

        When in doubt about anything ask the searchers. Most share ideas in a good way.

        IMO only.

  75. Here is another solution. I’m quite sure it is incorrect, but it can serve as food for thought.

    I am posting this one in an effort to get someone interested in discussing math solution validation requirements. Anyone serious about using math as a solution methodology needs to be completely in tune with what constitutes a valid answer and what does not.

    I know that this solution is wrong because I interjected my own thoughts into the solution itself. I did this not because I wanted to use this to search, but because I wanted to see what would happen to the output by trying different combinations of letters at the end of the key.

    Concept: Use Line 15 as the key phrase.

    Y=I=9 (I added the last two . . . they do not come from the poem directly!)

    What happens?

    Line 22:

    Your = 9+13+7+22 = 51
    Effort = 25+19+19+13+22+12 = 110

    Worth = 16+13+22+12+1 = 64
    The = 12+1+25 = 38
    Cold = 18+13+9+18 = 58

    Your+Effort = 51+110 = 161 = 8
    Worth+The+Cold = 64+38+58 = 170 = 8

    Letter perfect as full left = full right.

    Line 23:

    If = 14+19 = 33
    You = 9+13+7 = 29

    Brave = 1+22+20+1+25 = 69
    And = 20+8+18 = 46
    In = 14+8 = 22
    The = 12+1+25 = 38
    Wood = 26+13+13+18 = 70

    You = 29 = 11
    Brave+And+In+The+Wood = 245 = 11

    If cannot be used here. I can accept that if Line 13 works with identical exclusion; otherwise I’m done with this one. Checking.

    Line 13:

    If = 14+19 = 33
    You = 9+13+7 = 29
    You’ve = 9+13+7+1+25 = 55
    Been = 1+25+25+8 = 59

    Wise = 26+14+5+25 = 70
    And = 20+8+18 = 46
    Found = 19+13+7+8+18 = 65
    The = 12+1+25 = 38
    Blaze = 1+9+20+25+25 = 80

    You = 29 = 11 = 2
    Wise+And+Found+The+Blaze = 70+46+65+38+80 = 299 = 20 = 2

    Structurally identical to Line 23! Looking good so far.

    If+You’ve+Been+W = 33+55+59+26 = 173 = 11
    E+And+Found+The+Blaze = 25+46+65+38+80 = 254 = 11

    Three lines, four equations, four hits! Looking perfect so far. Have to keep going.

    Line 20:

    I’ve = 14+1+25 = 40
    Done = 18+13+8+25 = 64
    It = 14+12 = 26
    Tired = 12+14+22+25+18 = 91
    And = 20+8+18 = 46
    Now = 8+13+26 = 47
    I = 14

    Weak = 26+25+20+23 = 94

    I’ve+Done+It+Tired+And+Now+I = 40+64+26+91+46+47+14= 328 = 13

    Weak = 94 = 13

    All four lines that imply letter value changes work perfectly! Wow!

    Line 17:

    This line poses a question. Let’s see if the math can answer it!

    So = 5+13 = 18
    Why = 26+1+9 = 36

    It = 14+12 = 26
    That = 12+1+20+12 = 45
    I = 14
    Must = 20+7+5+12 = 44
    Go = 3+13 = 16

    So + Why = 18+36 = 54 = 9
    It+That+I+Must+Go = 26+45+14+44+16 = 145 = 10

    9 not equal to 10. So what happens if the “I’s” are removed??

    T+That+Must+Go = 12+45+44+16 = 117 = 9
    So+Why = 18+36 = 54 = 9

    Holy cow! That’s cool! I’ll accept that as perfect math and question answered!

    Wonder what happens next??

    Line 21:

    So = 5+13 = 18
    Hear = 1+25+20+22 = 68
    Me = 20+25 = 45
    All = 20+9+9 = 38
    And = 20+8+18 = 46
    L = 9

    Ten = 12+25+8 = 45
    Good = 3+13+13+18 = 47

    So+Hear+Me+All+And+L = 18+68+45+38+46+9 = 224 = 8

    Ten+Good = 45+47 = 92 = 11 = 2

    No joy. There are no “I”s to remove, so that trick is useless here. Primary equality available is:

    So+Me+All+L = 18+45+38+9 = 110 = 2
    Ten+Good = 45+47 = 92 = 11 = 2

    Speed bump, or shot through the heart and I’m to blame?? Going to try Line 10 next.

    Line 10:

    The = 12+1+25 = 38
    End = 25+8+18 = 51

    Ever = 25+1+25+22 = 73
    Drawing = 18+22+20+26+14+8+3 = 111
    Nigh = 8+14+3+1 = 26

    The+End = 38+51 = 89 = 17 = 8
    Ever+Drawing+Nigh = 73+111+26 = 210 = 3

    No immediate joy here.

    The+End = 8
    Nigh = 26 = 8

    Ever+Drawing = 73+111 = 184 = 13
    Weak = 94 = 13

    What was looking like perfect math is beginning to crumble! Maybe Line 9 will add some strength?

    From = 19+22+13+20 = 74
    There = 12+1+25+22+25 = 85
    It = 14+12 = 26

    No = 8+13 = 21
    Place = 1+9+20+18+25 = 73
    For = 19+13+22 = 54
    The = 12+1+25 = 38
    Meek = 20+25+25+23 = 93

    From+There+It = 74+85+26 = 185 = 14
    No+Place+For+The+Meek = 21+73+54+38+93 = 279 = 18 = 9

    No joy. But there is an “I” on the left. Removing that “I” yields:

    From+There+T = 74+85+12 = 171 = 9
    No+Place+For+The+Meek = 279 = 18 = 9

    The “I” trick works again, so this lends structural and logical integrity to doing this originally!

    Last line is 11:

    There = 12+1+25+22+25 = 85

    No = 8+13 = 21
    Paddle = 1+20+18+18+9+25 = 91
    Up = 7+1 = 8
    Your = 9+13+7+22 = 51
    Creek = 18+22+25+25+23 = 113

    There = 85 = 13
    No+Paddle+Up+Your+Creek = 21+91+8+51+113 = 284 = 14

    No good! No “I’s” to remove here, either!

    Only play is to remove “Paddle”.

    No+Up+Your+Creek = 21+8+51+113 = 193 = 13
    There = 85 = 13

    OK! I can accept that!

    This math validates extremely well!

    What’s next??

    Look = 9+13+13+23 = 58
    Quickly = 18+7+14+18+23+9+9 = 98
    Down = 18+13+26+25 = 82

    Your = 9+13+7+22 = 51
    Quest = 18+7+25+5+12 = 67
    To = 12+13 = 25
    Cease = 18+25+20+5+25 = 93

    Quickly + Down = 98+82 = 180 = 9 . . . Line 9
    Quest + To + Cease = 67+25+93 = 185
    From+There+It = 74+85+26 = 185
    For+The+Meek = 54+38+93 = 185

    Wow! That looks like mathematical verification that Line 9 contains a coordinate!

    (f)OR THEM = 44.3172 . . . This is a latitude in WY.

    Quickly = 98 = 17 = 8 . . . Line 8
    Your+Quest = 51+67 = 6+13 = 19 . . . Letter
    To + Cease = 25+93 = 7+12 = 19 . . . Letter

    Reading down from the 19th letter, Line 8 for 6 lines . . .

    FEGPAF = 107.31210 . . . This is a latitude in WY.

    44.3172N / 107.31210W / 9323′ elevation

    Coordinate is in Bighorn National Forest, WY

    Take 532 to the end of the road and park at Battle Park Trailhead.

    Coordinate here is 44.309177N / 107.31145W

    Hike almost due N, crossing Battle Creek, .56 miles.

    Hike uphill only 135′. A meek walk.

    Additional Verifications:

    Battle Park value OLD = 106 / NEW = 145

    Line 1: As+I+Have (OLD) = 106

    Rewritten: Battle Park gone alone in there.

    Line 24: To+The+Gold (OLD) = 106

    Rewritten: I give you title Battle Park.

    There are others. If you like this solve, check it out.

    I have not been there. This is just another place on my possible answers list. Currently it is #3! And I’m giving it away for free. If you like it, check it out.

    Solution methodology should be quite instructive to someone out there.

    So why don’t I like it?? Because I had to make it up. I used my wits to add values for the last two letters of the blaze! So, in essence, I cheated. The math is very close to perfect because I wanted it to be that way.

    As my new friend Charlie would say, I force created a forced fit situation!

    But as none of us have the chest, none of us know exactly what steps of imagination might be required to generate a solution. Perhaps if you ain’t cheating, you ain’t trying??

    Who knows.

    A whole banquet of food for thought today.

    Comments appreciated!


    • Decades ago, someone told me that a marijuana cigarette is called a “number”.

      Looks like a lot of numbers were involved here. All IMO.

  76. A=T=2
    Y=I=9 (I added the last two . . . they do not come from the poem directly!)

    none of this makes any sense to me! Please explain the logic of lets just say… B=A=1, H=A=1, P=A=1 and V=A=1 all equal 1???????

    • Letter value substitutes.

      Simple substitution game for children.


      Letters changed by using Line 15.

      A becomes T from Tarry
      B becomes A from tArry
      C becomes R from taRry
      X becomes E from gazE
      Y becomes I because I cheated
      Z becomes Y because I chrated.

      All math from there, as explained above.

      If you don’t like it, no problem. Others might be interested.

      Blaze and coordinates make a nice sideways H on the grid. Wit “h” anyone?

        • Most suitable fare for a blatant “I messed with the poem, and I’m happy to admit it,” solution. Lol.

      • I get the “simple Letter change”… what I don’t understand is the random (NUMBER) valued assigned to such… NOT logical… Please explain???

        Seems like your’re randomly applying number values to fit what you want

        Just asking

        • Pardon me. Let me try one more time.

          Child’s game simple substitution:

          A= 1
          B= 2
          . . .
          J= 10
          . . .
          . . .

          Letter values fixed with this arrangement.

          Now use Line 15 words to change values of alphabet.

          A becomes T = 20
          Now for validation equations, A=20, not 1, as before.

          “TARRY SCANT WITH MARVEL GAZE replaces A-X, sequentially. As alphabet requires 26 letters for full replacement and only 24 available in this string, I selected Y=I=9 and Z=Y=25.

          Why did I pick these two letters? Because they make the math work better than any other combination. No other reason. This is an admitted force fit that almost certainly makes this arrangement GIGO, gabage-in-gabage-out. But the fact that the outputs are so close to full left equals full right for 10 eqn’s shows that this validation matrix is conceptually solvable with only poem input.

          Hopefully, this helps. If not, I’ll keep trying to clarify.

          • well I do NOT consider that as messing with the poem even though I don’t think it will work out but its a theory and we all have one of those. good luck!

            thanks for laying it out. sometimes the “simple” eludes my mind sometimes.

    • Iowaengr,

      I simply don’t understand why this quote from F is being ignored.

      “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions.” f Forrest quote from TarryScant

      With this quote I believe your process will work. That’s just me thinking and listening to what F says.

      Best of luck

      • With this quote I believe your process will work. should have read

        With this quote I believe your process will “not” work.

      • I have addressed this concern before, but not for you. So I will reiterate.

        A) Simple math is not excluded from the list. Simple addition certainly does not qualify as advanced anything.
        B) I neither have, nor am applying, any pre-existing knowledge of any standard code. In this instance I am using Fenn’s letters from Line 15 to revalue the alphabet. Plus two of my own liking. No pre-existing code is based on those letters to my knowledge.
        C) I believe that this is a math puzzle. Ergo converting letters to numbers is required in some fashion. Using simple substitution, a child’s game is absolutely fair game. IMO.
        D) I don’t believe that a fighter pilot would fail to provide a verifiable coordinate for the chest. Therefore, it is my choice to look for that coordinate in whatever manner that I choose.
        E) My investigations lead me to believe that the full solution involves math across To Be, letter revaluation, acrostics, letter swaps across To Be, line by line word/letter rearrngements as instructed by author, anagrams, and other puzzle type arrangements.
        F) I fully understand that my opinions and methods are deemed out-of-bounds by the poem purists here. And, frankly, I don’t really care. There is a puzzle here, and I will try whatever crazy idea pops into my head to solve it.

        I am posting possible solutions in order to show others how these techniques can be applied to generate answers. Verifiable and deniable answers.

        I deem this one deniable from home, so it is a great one to generate discussion. IMO.

        As the concept of validation seems to be a subject that too many here want to avoid, I keep hoping that someone will chime in with something of merit related to the postulate that I keep repeating. So far, no serious takers, which is disappointing.

        I hope that I answered your concern regarding my disregard for your interpretation of Fenn’s statement.

        • Iowaengr,

          Formulas, ciphers, codes and most of the quote has a lot to do with “math”. What you presented falls under the quote, I don’t see how one can misinterpret what is being said. I guess what F said doesn’t count.

          No need to get testy when you said, “And, frankly, I don’t really care.” Forrest said, “will not assist anyone to the treasure location.” I believe most takes F for his word, there is nothing wrong with “poem purists” thinking inside of the box.

          Just say’n 🙂

          • I apologize if anything I said irritated you, Charlie. Of course, you have an equal right to your methods as I do to mine. No harm no foul either way in my book.

            I am looking for like-minded solvers to step up to the plate and start offering alternative solution blueprints. I’m throwing wood on the fire daily, and too few are offering serious evaluations. I hope that changes, even if those discussions are taken off-line.


          • iowaengr;

            For me, your screen name is enough to scare me off – engr. For a few years I was called a “Systems Engineer” when I worked in IBM. The title just never felt comfortable. To me, the title gave others the idea that I had more knowledge about certain matters than I actually possessed. NUMBERS (even SIMPLE numbers) confuse me. Throw in terms like base 8 and you might as well be talking in a foreign language – So, when I see your name on a post, I usually bypass it. You MAY have something of value to add to the topic, but the book scares me, and I am not about to open it – That’s just me. SOME bloggers may comprehend what you are offering, I just happen not to be one of them. Best of luck in getting a conversation going – JDA

      • Charlie—-
        I see where you are coming from. But you know what is interesting? Look through that list of things that will NOT help you. Do you see acrostics or anagrams? Now I realize some may say “Oh come on, Forrest is covering everything “like that” when he uses that list”.

        But is that truly the case? Forrest is very, very intelligent—-and what he leaves OUT of that list could wind up being very important. Just my opinion of course.

        • So, Sparrow. I’ll trade acrostics with you. I have a couple of big ones up my sleeve. You have my email address, if interested.


        • Sparrow,

          The gist of what F says anything other than the words in his poem will not work and he has said, “don’t mess with my poem” f That in its self using acrostics or anagrams is messing with his poem. Just because the acrostics or anagrams or math aren’t listed doesn’t make it right to use those methods.

          Yes, F is an intelligent man, I would be very certain if you were to ask him about acrostics, anagrams or math those would be included. The words in the poem as they are will lead one to the treasure. I wish that I could show you that using those techniques other than the words in the poem in consecutive order will not work.

          I guess we’ll see in early summer how things really are.

          All IMHO.

          • Charlie,

            Just out of interest do you have a solve? and if so what state? as some of the people on here (Not me) have been working on solves for a long time?

          • Butch,

            Yes I do have a solve, as far as where I can keep my secret, just like F. I hold all very close.

            Thanks for asking.

          • Come on Charlie, if your that confident at least tell us when your BOTG….surely that can’t hurt?

          • Hi, Charlie and JDA. I think you may be drawing an incorrect conclusion. Just because I’m using puzzle techniques and math to generate a coordinate does not mean that I don’t subject high-value answers to linguistic and geophysical tests. I do. I am not discussing those aspects of my work for my primary solve because they are not germane to anything I want to discuss here at this time.

            Rest assured that anyplace that I do decide to visit for a BOTG search this summer will have been vetted against these criteria, too. I have a small blizzard of information written down regarding my primary solution. A fair bit of that is devoted to linking the spot to FF metaphorically. No math, no games.

            I have correlations for the map clues, just as you do for your solves. Thus at the end of the day, I may be better prepared for the BOTG portion of this game than you are. But then again, my predilection for a coordinate may eliminate me from the actual contest if the final answer can only be derived in the the manner you both espouse.


          • Iowaengr,

            Fair enough, I always thought we all were fair to discuss, debate or challenge, and no harm done and no hard feelings..Just being fair.


          • IE;

            Again, best of luck to Ya’ Even when you speak English, most of what you say goes right over my head –
            ” subject high-value answers to linguistic and geophysical tests.”
            “not germane ” – I think I get
            “vetted against these criteria, too. I have a small blizzard of information written down regarding my primary solution. A fair bit of that is devoted to linking the spot to FF metaphorically.” – say what???
            “Thus at the end of the day, I may be better prepared for the BOTG portion of this game than you are.” Rather presumptuous don’t you think?

            ” my predilection for a coordinate” HUH???
            “if the final answer can only be derived in the the manner you both espouse.” – And what manner is that? Charlie and I have VERY different approaches, and yet you lump us together???

            Is it any wonder that you can not get a conversation going. Most of us here do not have a Phd. behind our names – Just sayin’

            Accordingly, presently I have that absent from my upper thorax – phew! – JDA

          • C osmic circles and hopping chipmunks too
            H arps and strange monkeys all at the zoo
            A man with an umbrella and tobaccy chew
            R ich women in bonnets who haven’t a clue
            L arge lampstands all painted in turquoise blue
            I most assuredly do not know what to do
            E nough is enough my friend what say you?

            Don’t mess with my poem.

  77. I appreciate Seeker asking people who are sure they know where the TC is to say where their solve is and when they’re going BOTG. I understand why very few would be willing to actually do that. On the other hand, maybe people will be willing to say when they are going and what state or even top- or bottom-half of state they are searching. These states are HUGE!

    (Oooh! Weird 3 green bars just appeared below the paragraph above…Maybe the TC is in Huge. LOL)

    • Forgot: After a year, I don’t have WWWH yet, but I believe I know what it is, and I’ve just found something that might help me find it. Sadly, I’m going BOTG to the Rockies tomorrow, and I’m really planning on having a nice vacation! We’ll be road tripping through places many are searching: Southern CO, Co/WY stateline, YNP (I know, I know, but I adore the wonderland), and up into MT a bit. I want to get a sense of what these places are like so if the TC is found this summer, I’ll have a visual sense.

      That being said, if I ever did find the TC, I’d probably leave it right there. Love and good luck to all!

    • Well Lady V – I answered that I am searching Memorial Day Week-end in Wyoming. I’ll bite on your bid for more info. I am searching in the western half of Wyoming – Does that help? 🙂 JDA

      • I will be even more precise. Start at SLC and drive east on I-80 to just past Fort Steele – drive north on 30 to Medicine Bow – North on 487/220 to Casper – North on I25 to Buffalo – North on 90 to the Wyoming/Montana border. My search area will always to your left if you are the driver. 🙂 JDA

        • I look forward to reading your successful solution very soon! Please don’t forget to enlighten we poor, unedumacated folk!


          • Sir, you completely misread my post. It is I who is “unedumacated”, and therefore can not understand half of what you – a very well edumacated individual, enpouses – JDA

          • Even if I am lucky enough to find Indulgence, my current plans are to NOT publish my solve, but to leave something where Indulgence once rested, and to allow the “chase” to continue – So, no forthcoming solve – Sorry about that.

            Even If I can not understand much of what you espouse, I DO wish you luck and good fortune. JDA

          • Dang! Left hanging yet again. Very sorry that you are pleading the 5th, because contrary to what you may surmise, I really am interested in your work. I know you’ve put in the time, and in honor of that, I wish you success. That said, I can say with absolute certainty that our paths will never cross in the middle of nowhere WY. Lol.

          • Thank you for the “Well-wish”. I am not pleading the fifth – I have nothing to hide, nor anything that I need protection from.

            My reasons are simple. In my 75 years, I have never had so much fun, as I have had these past 29 months, in the “Chase.”

            I have LOVED searching my search area. To me, it is beautiful, and I hope that others will find it just as beautiful, and find the “Thrills” I have found in the “Chase”.

            About two years ago, I said that there was a very obscure definition of “the wood.” and that this obscure definition will lead a searcher to a geographic area in Wyoming, and that once in this specific area, finding WWWH is pretty easy.

            IF I find Indulgence, I will disclose what this obscure definition is, and then let others figure out my solve from there – knowing the correct starting place.

            Doing this, and continuing the chase for the remainder of this search season, at least one additional search season, I run the risk of someone doing something stupid and ending their life – but I feel that the risk is worth it.

            The knowledge (IF I find indulgence) that I alone figured it out will be very rewarding, I want others to have that same feel of elation – So the chase will go on whether I find Indulgence or not.

            There will be a “Lunch Box” with a log book inside. Whoever finds the lunch box, I hope will sign in, email me, and add any comments to the log they feel appropriate. I also hope that the new finder follows additional instructions found in the log book.

            I plan to write a book telling how I solved the riddles in the poem. This will take some time. I hope to include these log entries in the book – with the new finder’s permission.

            I am not being egotistical, but – I honestly do not expect anyone to find the Lunch Box this year – even with the head start. Probable a few next search season.

            I am sure that every searcher that wants to continue the chase will scour every comment I have ever made on the blogs, in hope that I will have given away a “secret” – I MAY have, but I have tried to be careful.

            Good luck to all in either finding Indulgence, or – the Lunch Box IF I find her this year. Above all else, Have FUN and TRY to STAY SAFE – JDA

        • LOL. I love this, JDA! Don’t give up! Now, if you leave from SLC, I hope you’ll consider going NE from there, and stopping in Garden City. It’s a pretty drive, and those raspberry shakes…!!!

      • Good luck JDA, I wish you a safe journey and I must say that I like it that you have like me your own unique solve that has not relied on anyone else or their solves, it will make it even more satisfying knowing that you and you alone have solved the poem, I wish you well my friend.

        • Thanks again Butch – And yes, I feel that my solve is “Unique” – In many aspects. Let’s hope it works – JDA

  78. Hey there JDA. The lunch box is a great idea. Maybe put a gift card in it for your favorite sandwich shop too. And don’t forget a Dr. Pepper or Grapette. You can even call it a red neck survival kit.

    Can I steal that idea if I find the box?

    Take care………Pinatubocharlie

    • Sure, you may HAVE (not steal) that idea 🙂

      I like your idea of the Grapette or Dr. Pepper.

      If someone finds it, and emails me, they might get a bit more than a Grapette 🙂 JDA

  79. Possible solution start. Thoughts welcomed. Very limited math for now.

    Line 5: “It” = Blackfoot River, MT
    Why: “A river runs through it”
    Line 6: “Canyon” = Blackfoot Canyon
    How: by car on Hwy 200.
    Simple Substitution Validation: Where+Warm+Waters = 200
    Second Simple Substitution Validation:
    As+Have+Gone+Alone+There = 200
    Line 7: Not walking yet. Confirmed.
    Line 8: “HoB” = Browns Lake
    Note: Browns Lake is South of 200 and North of the Blackfoot. Marker needed here to direct searcher to get off of 200 and onto smaller roads that follow the Blackfoot.

    Ok. Feedback time. Who likes this solution start sequence? Who doesn’t?

    Reasons why this might be useful, or not, welcomed.


    • Not your best work, but I understand. Gotta give the people what they want.

      Besides, as-presented, there’s not enough detail to say whether you’re on to something big, or just having a little fun. Or is there??

      In any case, I know you’ve seen my work and I’m pretty confident we share at least some notions toward solving the poem. If you’re interested, I would love to collaborate. Just shoot me an email at:


      That goes for anyone else too. I’m an open book. It’s just that most people who dare to read don’t share my same conviction.

      • Sent you an email. Your thoughts on my Bighorn solve above would be appreciated.

        I know you are working along similar lines, and the high-correlation answers are pretty striking with that one.


      • No. Brow between start of Yourname Creek and Deer Gulch is over 5600′. My coordinate is live. I just don’t like it much. Lol.

        • Oh…thanks for clarification. I thought you meant below Brown Lake… but you are going up Yourname. I like it. What is your WWWH?

          • Where+warm+waters =

            Hwy 200 along Blackfoot River above Blackfoot Canyon. Where? Any where. Just start in a car.

            Unconventional, but it works here.

  80. Solve of the day. If you like it, feel free to investigate!

    Math solution starts on Line 5:

    Begin: “BEGIN IT” = 2+5+7+9+14+9+20= 66 = 12
    Twelfth letter in, line 5, puts me on the second “E” in “WHERE”
    Halt: “WARM WATERS HALT” = 23+1+18+13+23+1+20+5+18+19+8+1+12+20 = 182 = 11
    Twenty-third letter, line 5, puts me on the “S” in “WATERS”
    Down: “IN THE CANYON DOWN” = 9+14+20+8+5+3+1+14+25+15+14+4+15+23+14 = 184 = 13
    This corresponds to the second blank space after “Go”, line 17
    Move confirmed by “BELOW THE” = 2+5+12+15+23+20+8+5= 90=9 (move ends 9 lines below Brown)
    Nigh (left): “EVER DRAWING NIGH” (LEFT) = 5+22+5+18+4+18+1+23+9+14+7+14+9+7+8 = 164 = 11
    This corresponds to the “A” in “That”, line 17
    Move confirmed by: THE+END (same line) = 20+8+5+5+14+4 = 56 = 11
    Up: “NO PADDLE UP YOUR CREEK” = 14+15+16+1+4+4+12+5+21+16+25+15+21+18+3+18+5+5+11=229=13
    This corresponds to the second “E” in “WHERE”, line 5
    This move completes a full rectangular loop.

    Look: “QUICKLY” = 17+21+9+3+11+12+25 = 98 = 17
    Before moving, Observe: “YOUR+QUEST+TO” (cease) = 25+15+21+18+17+21+5+19+20+20+15 = 196
    Also Observe: “COUNTERCLOCKWISE” = 3+15+21+14+20+5+18+3+12+15+3+11+23+9+19+5 = 196
    Proceed CCW to 17th letter (not counting the start/end point) and reorder from there!
    17th letter is the “S” in “MUST” . . . CLOCKWISE reordering from here yields:


    Now verify:

    Line 22 says “YOUR EFFORT” will be “WORTH THE COLD”
    Originally this was untrue (149 not equal to 151), so let’s check it now.

    Using the NEW BLAZE VALUES (unless otherwise stated) for all math henceforth!

    Initial verification from line 22, “Your effort = Worth the cold”
    YOUR+EFFORT = 20+8+18+5+20+1+1+8+5+1 = 87 = 15 = 6
    WORTH+THE+COLD = 23+8+5+1+14+1+14+20+13+8+16+9 = 132 = 6
    Letter perfect! Looks promising!

    Continuing verifications from line 13, “If you = Wise and found the blaze”
    YOU = 20+8+18 = 46 = 10
    IF+YOU = 4+1+20+8+18 = 51 = 6
    WISE = 23+4+23+20 = 70 = 7
    AND = 19+19+9 = 47 = 11
    FOUND = 1+8+18+19+9 = 55 = 10
    THE = 1+14+20 = 35 = 8
    BLAZE = 21+16+19+5+20 = 81 = 9
    YOU (46=10) = FOUND (55=10) = WISE + AND + FOUND + BLAZE (70+47+55+81=253=10)
    Also Note: WISE + BLAZE = 70+81 = 151 (The exact original value of WORTH THE COLD)!!
    Also Note: IF YOU (new) 51=6 which equals the original sum of WISE FOUND THE BLAZE (195=15=6)!
    YOUVE BEEN W = 20+8+18+13+20+21+20+20+19+23 = 182 = 11
    E FOUND THE BLAZE = 20+1+8+18+19+9+1+14+20+21+16+19+5+20 = 191 = 11
    All words used, but full left never equals full right. Still very strong, though!

    Continuing verification from line 17, So why = It that I must go . . .
    SO WHY = 23+8+23+14+20 = 88 = 16 = 7
    IT+THAT+I+MUST+GO = 4+1+1+14+19+1+4+18+18+23+1+3+8 = 115 = 7
    Letter perfect!

    Continuing from line 23, If you = Brave and in the wood . . .
    IF YOU = 4+1+20+8+18 = 51 = 6
    BRAVE = 21+5+19+13+20 = 78 = 15 = 6
    BRAVE+AND+IN+THE+WOOD = 21+5+19+13+20+19+19+9+4+19+1+14+20+23+8+8+9 = 231 = 6
    Letter perfect!

    Continuing verification from line 9, From there it = No place for the meek
    THERE+IT= 1+14+20+5+20+4+1 = 65 = 11
    NO PLACE FOR THE MEEK = 19+8+15+16+19+13+20+1+8+5+1+14+20+18+20+20+1 = 218 = 11
    Note that FROM still does not work here. Still stronger than the original, however.

    Continuing verification from line 11, There = No paddle up your creek
    THERE = 1+14+20+5+20 = 60 = 6
    NO PADDLE UP YOUR CREEK = 19+8+15+19+9+9+16+20+18+15+20+8+18+5+13+5+20+20+1 = 258 = 15 = 6
    The weak line is now letter perfect!

    Continuing verification from line 20, I’ve done it tired and now I = Weak
    WEAK = 23+20+19+1 = 63 = 9
    This is most interesting! Weak now equals original value of I!
    IVE DONE IT TIRED AND NOW I = 4+13+20+9+8+19+20+4+1+1+4+5+20+9+19+19+9+19+8+23+4 = 238 = 13=4
    Truly astounding! This string now equals the original value of WEAK!!
    Further: I+DONE+IT+TIRED+NOW=4+9+8+19+20+4+1+1+4+5+20+9+19+8+23 = 154 = 10
    YOU = 20+8+18 = 46 = 10
    AM+WEAK = 19+18+23+20+19+1 = 100 = 10
    These are very interesting equalities!
    Letter perfect!
    Continuing verification from line 10, The end = Ever drawing nigh
    Remember that this line was fully equal before, so it may act a bit differently now. Let’s see.
    THE = 1+14+20 = 35 = 8
    END = 20+19+9 = 48 = 12
    EVER = 20+13+20+5 = 58 = 13
    DRAWING = 9+5+19+23+4+19+3 = 82 = 10
    NIGH = 19+4+3+14 = 40 = 4
    THE = 35 = 8 which matches EVER + NIGH = 58 + 40 = 98 = 17 = 8
    So far this one is weak relative to the other lines . . . BUT
    BUT if we add “Your Quest” to “The End” the math works.
    YOUR = 20+8+18+5 = 51
    QUEST = 20+18+20+23+1 = 82
    THE + END + YOUR + QUEST = 35+48+51+82 = 216 = 9
    EVER + DRAWING + NIGH = 58+82+40 = 180 = 9
    Admittedly manipulated, but I still like it!

    Continuing verification from line 21, So hear me all and L = Ten good
    SO+HEAR+ME+ALL+L = 23+8+14+20+19+5+18+20+19+16+16+16 = 194 = 14
    TEN GOOD = 1+20+19+3+8+8+9 = 68 = 14
    Note that AND could not be used here.

    Final conclusion: The totality of the math here is overwhelmingly positive!


    LOOK = 16+8+8+1 = 33 = 6
    QUICKLY = 20+18+4+13+1+16+20 = 92 = 11
    DOWN = 9+8+23+19 = 59 = 14
    LOOK QUICKLY DOWN = 184 = 13


    Reading down 6 letters: ARLRAI = 105.75104
    Note: A=S and 19=10!

    Reading down 7 letters (note this creates “IT” across the bottom!): I space T space MOT = 40.10981
    Note: space taken to = 0!

    Coordinate is just W of Arapaho Creek off Continental Divide Trail in CO
    Elevation checks OK!

    Park where Highway 6 ends below Monarch Lake Dam . . . address there is: 9 Ten Mile Dr
    Walk SW on Continental Divide Trail to W bank of Arapaho Creek. Follow creek to coordinates.
    Total distance around one third mile.

    Long = 105.75104 = 23 = W = In (orig and new!)
    Lat = 40.10981 = 23 = W = In (orig and new!)

    Walk down trail from parking lot to W side of creek = .28 km (IS)
    Walk down west creek bank to point = .23 km (IN)
    Point is West and South of Arapaho Creek
    Elevation differential between park spot and creek put in point is -4 feet, negligible.
    Elevation differential between trail and creek hiding spot is -9 feet, negligible.
    Conclusion: Chest is probably buried.

    The rectangular blaze, augmented with the two coordinates dropping down vertically from the box make a giant “A” on the grid. Arapahoe Creek verification via art??

    Fenn’s favorite symbol is “double omega (lowercase = w)” and both lat and long total to “W”!
    This point could be the end of the rainbow!!!!

    Note: Given Fenn’s dam disclaimer, I doubt that this is the correct place. But someone in CO might enjoy a visit, anyway. I believe Arapahoe Creek is a blue ribbon trout stream, so a day trip would still be fun!!

    • Sorry Iowaengr – my brain just does not work this way. Sure am glad that there are people like you though – who can understand the numerical complexities of life and invent the things we use every day – Thanks – JDA

      • Thank you for the compliment. Perhaps you are starting to understand why I am fixated on the subtle distinctions between possible answers? I have too many great permutations to choose from. Hence, I cannot search them all, so I’m sharing my efforts with others. No sense since on a bunch of possible solutions like a miser.

        And who knows, maybe there’s gold at the end of one if these trails that I’ve noted and walked on by?

        • As you say – Who knows? There just might be gold at the end of one of your “Rainbows.” Thanks for sharing – even if I do not understand them – JDA

          • I guess it is kinda like electricity – I do not have to understand how it gets to my house – All I need to know is if I flip the switch – my world becomes brighter – 🙂 – JDA

      • Oh my. Guess I don’t understand or have a clue what SIMPLIFY really means. Must in one of those other dictionaries.


  81. In my ponderings about Forrest laughing to himself while walking back to the car an interesting possibility struck me.
    When looking for possible sites I always ask myself about visibility…things like: How could he be sure no one could see him placing the treasure wherever he might have done that. If on an open field with mountains nearby or a sparsely treed slope, How could he prevent a hunter, hiker, bird watcher, ranger or other nearby passersby from being a witness? Then the thought hit me…what kind of scenarios could solve this problem and add flavor to his inner laughter at the same time. Stay with me…

    Imagine there was an outdoor public event, where many people were present…an event where many people brought tents and picnic gear. So, one old fella pitched his tent amidst hundreds or thousands of others. While the concert or event ensued, he took his igloo cooler into his tent, with the chest inside of course. Then simply cut a hole in the floor of the tent, dug a hole and buried the chest. Then pulled up stakes and laughed all the way home. Although it probably didn’t happen this way, I thought it was one possible way to cloak the hiding ispot n a highly visible space.
    I would be careful to not rule out any such places.
    Just some drops of ink to make you think.
    Does anyone else have any other ideas on how he may have accomplished invisibility? He has said that he left nothing to chance, so that means he did something to insure he wouldn’t be found out. Sound off…1,2,3!
    Blessings, tomtom

    • While your scenario is a good use of imagination I believe it was likely more simple than you suggest. Hiding everything in a backpack would make him appear to be just a normal hiker when leaving the car. Not many people wonder off trail in the forest so he would not have to go far to be out of sight.

      • Aaron, thank you for your thoughts. What prompted the idea for me was the “what if” there wasn’t good tree cover in the area. That makes it a little more difficult to go completely unnoticed wouldn’t you think? So, the question that I’m seeking answers to is…
        what methods could someone employ to ensure invisibility (besides the use of a tent) if natural cover is not available?

        • Precaution #1 would start at the parking area – are there and other cars parked there? That would be an indicator. IF a visited area, go during the week vs the week-end. If no cars – good sign. If one or two cars, be watchful.
          Precaution #2 – get to a vantage point, and watch the trail for a while.
          Precaution #3 – Get to the “Hidey Spot” – can you see the trail from where you are? Probably not, but check just to make sure.
          Precaution #4 – Take advantage of whatever cover IS available – Sage Brush – bushes etc.
          Precaution #5 – Look “natural” – “Act “normal” – do NOT bring attention to yourself.

          Simple precautions, but they work – I know, I have used them – JDA

          • Great detailed list of precautions which the finder may use also, thanks JDA. Number 1, a weekday resonates with me as well as number 2, waiting and watching. 3 and 4 make good sense to me also. I live in Florida where apart from being on a straight roadway or at the beach; visibility is generally limited in our flatlands by trees and usually ranges from 200′ to 3 football fields. Now number 5 is a problem for me, I don’t know how to act normal too well, lol. Once I was on a meteorite hunt west of Demming, NM and out in the middle of nowhere I accidently witnessed a drug drop off in progress in person between a helicopter and a pick-up truck . The truck stopped on its way back when they spotted me. The two men got out and starred in my direction for what seemed like an eternity. I immediately turned my back on them and continued to metal detect and acted like I didn’t care…soon after that they left rather quickly. It’s an icy feeling when your outnumbered and outgunned with only sagebrush in between.
            I forget which state your solve has brought you to, do you mind sharing again? Anyway, be safe and have a good time listening to God and nature out there when you go.

          • I search in Wyoming – NOT in YNP.

            Scary situation you were in. Not sure what I would have done. Obviously you did the right thing – you are here telling us about it. STAY SAFE my friend – JDA

        • Good question. The only scenario that would make that situation feasible would be if there was not a trail near the field, hence nobody would have a reason to be there. Other than that, tall grass?

          • “…Not a human trail in very close proxamity” – Lots of references to tall grass such as the gypsy story “…and pushing the tall grass aside I could really see up close.” – JDA

          • Quote should have been: “There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty (sic) to where I hid the treasure”. Sorry JDA

          • Theres that tall grass again…I can’t seem to get that one into my solve, much less hide behind it, haha.
            Thanks Aaron.

    • Boaz,

      Its very simple, no one was around, no cars, etc.., no people hardly ever at the hidey spot.

      • Yes CharlieM, probably over thinking something trivial that won’t get me closer to the prize anyway.
        I don’t know what makes me think I can get any closer than I already am except an airline ticket. It’s funny how everytime I went out with great confidence, I came back empty handed. So, maybe this time going with uncertainty may help, who knows?

    • On May 11th, I gave my best guess as to where the chest might be, and to address how he could have hidden it without being seen… At that time nobody would have noticed a car simply parked by the road, and he might have waited a bit later to tell about the treasure until nobody would remember a car… That spot I suspect, has no trail—you follow a hidden stream bed that is out of view of the road within 20 feet. No cars can see you, and before descending down into the so-called “canyon”, you can see cars coming for quite some distance. A car parked by the road even before anyone knew about the treasure… Nobody would have a reason to recall it.

    • Boaz,

      Yes, walking in the woods without being seen is a learned art/skill. “Hiding in plain sight” by blending in is what all good hunters try to do.

      And if a person is hidden from a road, he often hears the cars before they are ever in sight and can “hunker down” and freeze and never be seen by folks passing by in the car.

  82. JDA

    I am willing to eat ‘Crow’ as you Americans put it, as it saddens me to announce that the TC will be claimed within the next 7 days IMO………someone has the same solve as me, I will prove it next week after its been claimed 🙁

    • Well, I guess time will tell. I also believe that it will be found – not within the next seven days – but within the next four days. I am quite sure that WE (you and I) do NOT have the same solve, so that leaves the two of you with incorrect solves – or so it looks to me as of today. I assure you, I COULD be wrong, but I think not.

      Let’s hold off on the “Crow eating” until next week – I MAY be joining you for dinner – OK – JDA

      • May I suggest a preview of the menu kind sir?

        Jake’s Hat…..reserved for later engagement
        Crow Fra Diablo (spicy…no swearing)
        Crow Fricassee ( kind of swearing)
        Slow Roasted Crow with root veggies (my fave)
        Stuffed Crow (not saying where)
        * Baked* Crow (usually reserved for Co. searchers)
        Stewed Crow (really mad searchers only)
        Please let your waiter know if there is a personal favorite not offered here and we will try to accommodate as we know there are some *experienced* diners out there.
        Have fun JDA ! Be careful out there… I heard there were storms brewing in the mountains this weekend.

          • Free Range of course and we also offer Crowfurkey for those that don’t partake in flesh. As we speak…our dynamic chefs are working up a few specials for the end of July Specials menu.

        • Yum – YUM – Almost makes me want to bypasas where I think it is – – – NAHHHHH I just couldn’t do that, no matter how delicious the Crow entrees may be.

          Friday and Saturday in the low 70’s and sunny – YEA JDA

          • I saw that…Sunday things are brewing though…so be aware.

            Sign up at *Crow-A- Lot*.com for early preview of August’s projected menu.

          • Sunday, if it is bad, we can all huddle in a camper trailer, or in the motel while celebrating, and “Just being family.” Thanks for your warning though – JDA

  83. Too far to walk……two four two Hwy 242 is gone now and is replaced by I think hwy 191. Follow the yellow brick road.

  84. So, I wrote this little verse after my last unsuccessful solve in YNP:

    I am the sad clown,
    the consummate fool,
    Purveyor of wild dreams,
    an unintended tool.
    So clearly I can see,
    what is not actually there,
    So easily deceived,
    IT vanishes,
    IT’s not there.

  85. Hello Dal,

    please first excuse my bad English. I live to far away from the Rockies (in Berlin) to seek the treasure myself. So I have no concerns to share my solutions/ ideas with you or everyone else who is interested.

    Everything else I write from this point on is only guesswork or imagination. I have never been at the places I refer to.
    My basics for search:
    A part of the poem shows the „way“ for the searchers. The way Mr. Fenn had placed the TC could be different. The treasure has been placed close to a place reachable by car.

    There is another, non-geographical content in the poem (I do agree in general/ not explicit to a post at armchair explorers from JDA). This contend imo is also a clue.

    More than one of the clues should lead to more than one geographical point to get a clear location. All clues and hints should be related in a geographical context.
    For example:
    Some searchers do interpretate wwwh as one geographical spot (quite impossible to get an explicit location to “begin”). I prefer to see wwwh as a clue to an area.
    My first thought of wwwh had been Pagosa hot springs (PHS). Close to PHS there are Rainbow hot springs (a little different wwwh), Treasure Falls (the water freezes in winter to an impressive sculpture) and Treasure Mountain as a part oft he watershed/Great Divide (where the clouds are forced to rise into the cold and to rain down or snow). The whole area is a famous Ski-area. Snow has to be expected from September to June – (the cold?).

    Four different places and four different ways to interpret wwwh. But: all the four spots are in the same area and all are part oft the headwaters of San Juan River (SJR)! And if SJR is the Brown /river (later more to this point) these four places are part of the home of Brown. Otherwise the Divide/ Treasure Mountain and Treasure Falls could be interpreted as „WATER HIGH“. If all suggestions match, it would be a strong context and a very hot hint to the location of interest. Let me call it triangulating an area by finding übereinstimmungen mit dem poem.
    My solutions: first: short track – explanations later:

    The „way“ of Mr. Fenn: He brought the Treasure Chest from/ via Pagosa to a parking lot with direct entrance to “Treasure Falls Interpretive Trail” (official name). The TC should be found not far from this parking lot/ trail.

    The poem shows the „way/ geographical line “ from Rainbow Hot Springs down the canyon via Rainbow Trail (official name) up Falls Creek to the rainbow in the spray of Treasure Falls below Treasure Mountain.

    Explanations: way of FF:
    I began at Pagosa Hot Springs (PHS). Why (PHS)?: Pah-go-sah is an Ute word for “hot water”. The springs are well known since centuries, and they are famous as HEALING SPRINGS. If someone has got a serious diagnosis, would a famous traditional spa be in the focus of his interest? PHS has comfortable resorts, not far from there are short trails to beautiful waterfalls, more hot springs (Rainbow Springs), excellent fishing grounds and more. A perfect place for recreation after a serious diagnosis/ therapy. Good to reach and not far from Santa Fee (no, I’m unfortunately not sponsored by PHS-touristbord).

    Fifteen miles north from PHS along highway 160 parallel to young SJR is a parking lot. From there the Highway winds up into two loops to Wolf Creek Pass – NO PLACE FOR THE MEEK- nor is and has never been.

    The parking lot has a direct entrance to „Treasure Falls interpretive Trail“. There is a Sign on which is drawn the main-trail. It splits up into 3 short trails max. about a quarter mile( the end is always near). Also shown on this sign are the places of 8 Information-boards which had been very interesting for me. Not shown on the sign is a so called „primitive trail“, a short lop trail (the end is always near too). I found some photos of the boards on the net but could not read everything on those photos.

    The first I.-board (1):
    refers about the legend of Treasure Mountain. 300 French men had searched for gold in the area of WCP, but have been massacred by climate or Indians („no place fort he meek – the area of Wolf-Creek-Pass“). The leaders had cashed a fortune of gold near treasure mountain. Only two survived. The treasure has never been found, the clues have been lost. -> Hints OF RICHES OLD AND NEW
    Words on this board: GOLD, TREASURE, SEARCHED and clues.

    Next i.b. (2) heading:
    If you GAZE upon Treasure Falls LOOK for…
    Words on board: GAZE, LOOK, HIGH, WATER, CREEK, HOME OF

    Next i.b.(3): refers about a blowout at Falls Creek in 1985 -> „heavy loads “
    Falls creek has been filled up with wood debris and boulders. THERE IS NO PADDLE UP THIS CREEK = Falls Creek. W.o.b: CREEK

    Next b.(4) heading: THE BEGINING OF A YOURNEY describes how SJR is born at the divide an bringing live and new and old riches (agricultural fields /electricity) to a large area.-> „riches old and new“.

    Next b. (5): I am not shure if this board – I saw (on Google) – is located at TST or somewhere else in the area of San Juan Mountains. I could red: …how the crystal clear creeks oft he divide gather to the BROWN waters of SJR.
    Do people in south-west-America call SJR the brown river?
    Google?: it seems to be so. Upper part of the river because oft the brown trough (the river seems to be famous for), river down because oft he intensive brown color of the waters of SJR. But – you know that better than me.

    I found two more pictures of boards I could not read the text. One board seems to refer about different trees in this area. On another one I could see an owl and a ? cat.

    On all of the boards of Treasure fall Interpretive Trail you can read this words:
    TREASURE, GOLD, SEARCHED, CREEK, GAZE, HIGH, WATER, LOOK, HOME OF, (BROWN), (clues, the beginning of a journey) and other words of the poem. On another sign at TF-trail is written: bring it in, bring it out.
    All just coincidence? Paraphrasing? Maybe.

    These boards gave me some inspirations, maybe to a poem writer too. (very much pictures of this area/ boards are on the web, just Google Treasure Falls or have a look at Trip Advisor/Treasure Falls).

    All in all, Treasure Falls Trail leads through a very beautiful environment. Well frequented in high summer but still quite wild.

    The way oft he poem:

    1. Stanza: „As I have gone alone in there“
    FF started „I have“. He has done it, alone. He had no help. The treasure is close to a point to reach by car. Has he been bold because this area sometimes is frequented? Second stanza does not start with I. !!!

    Second stanza:
    Wwwh: Pagosa + Rainbow springs + Graet Dividie + Trasure falls + Snow/ski-area.
    To far to walk: no way on earth is to far to walk, except if you have to cross an ocean.
    There is a lot written about rainbows/ end of rainbows with treasures at this forum. Fact is: a rainbow is DRAWN at the sky by sunrays. The end of a natural rainbow is always perceived in infinite distance. But if you look at an artificial rainbow (garden hose, spray of a waterfall) THE END IS ALWAYS DRAWN NIGH if you get closer.

    From Rainbow hot springs > down the canyon > along rainbow trail until you see the rainbow in the spray of Treasure Falls.

    The house of Brown: the headwaters of SJR and they are also the house of brown trought.

    3. Stanza: no place fort he meek: Wolf Creek pass (see above).
    No paddle up your creek + heavy loads = Falls Creek, it leads to Treasure Fall (see above). Water high: Treasure Falls itself and treasure Mountain as a part oft he divide.

    4. Stanza: marvel gaze: look at the rainbow at treasure Falls. (info-board 2). Is this board the real blaze? Go in peace: You can go in peace. The men in the legend of treasure mountain got killed.

    5. Stanza: It is not my competence to refer about the most important and personnel question of Mr. Fenn. Think about the different levels oft he poem (also look at the post of JDA).

    6. Stanza: The cold: this area: snow from September to June.

    And yes, the last steps have to be done with botg.

    Conclusion: imo/ the poem could be seen as a parable of the circle of live/ the circle of water and – maybe – as a Treasure Map. And there are some more things, but I wrote enough.

    What would devils advocate answer to my conclusions? One more maybe: Yes Sir you are right, everything seems to match – somehow. My answer: even a wrong conclusion might be helpful to find the right way.

    My very best wishes to all searchers.

  86. JDA, why is they Yellowstone area too obvious? Can you explain why obvious would have anything to do with the hiding spot? We know why FF chose that spot.

    • Just an opinion Aaron. If I wanted to hide a treasure, and write a book that had within it, the poem that was to be used to find that treasure – the last thing that “I” would do is talk a LOT about where it is hidden. TToTC spends a LOT of pages on Yellowstone and adventures Forrest had in that area – THAT to me is like waving a red flag at a bull. Why attract attention to the one place that the treasure is hidden? My thought is that it is a distraction. A distraction away from where it actually is hidden.

      Regarding where I think it is – not one word in TToTC leads DIRECTLY to where I think it is. A couple of “Hints” perhaps, but nothing direct. This is what “I” would have done, had it been me that hid the treasure and written a book of memories. JMO – JDA

      • How do you know that it is what he wants you to think? Or that it is so difficult to find that it does not matter if he talks about the area. This is still a very large area after all.

    • P.S. You THINK you know why Forrest chose the location. Forrest has never said exactly why the hiding space is special to him, and he possibly never will. That is part of the riddle – in my estimation. JDA

      • JDA, I only meant we know that he hid it where he did because the spot was special to him. He didn’t choose the location based on how obvious it would be.

  87. This page is now closed to new comments. To continue this discussion please go to the newest I Think The Chest Is Here page.

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