Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Forty Nine

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Thanks…

 

dal…

614 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Forty Nine

  1. Chris added a Google search bar to the blog. It is the white bar that now appears at the top of the page. Unlike the old search mechanism it should search both posts and comments…
    Try it out and see what you think…

    • That’s a nice addition, guys, thanks! 🙂

      Dal, did I miss any comments about the advertising now appearing?

    • I know I asked about the previous search bar. Are you tracking search terms on this one?

      (This is somewhat of a tongue-in-cheek question.)

    • It’s great. Also, using quotation marks around a phrase does seem to filter the results to the phrase (and not just the three words separately).

    • Least favorite part of all the fantastic upgrades. Its too easy now to go back and look at all the dumb things you said. Or am I the only one?

  2. Thanks Dale,,
    Yep, it works,,, but that Google feller ain’t so smart.. I asked him “” where is the treasure? ”
    gave me a couple of miscellaneous urls plus circled back to your sites. Duh!

    • Sorry, DAL not Dale,
      mia culpa, Neandrathal fingers
      on a small droid keyboard.

  3. Nice addition guys but Is it possible to have more than 4 results/page show up?

    Pinatubocharlie

    • Pina…I tried it out and it showed quite a few results…with additional pages available at bottom. 1-10. Maybe that is all there was for your search/inquiry?

  4. Anyone who purchased a TFTW book, look at lamp on last page.
    Now look above the duck’s wing.
    Anyone else have a little pinkish rectangle above it’s wing?
    What about a tiny reddish smudge on last page near the top?
    Both scratch off.

    My second TFTW doesn’t have it at all. (I recently purchased newer signed copies as my guess is that these books will someday be worth a lot. Good investment.)

    Just wondering if my first book was replicated by a press mistake.

    The only reason I ask is because there is a lamp near Ronald Reagan but he climbed in the bathroom…so no lamp there in real life….just kind of curious choice of an object…a Lamp on back of treasure map.……

    • Nice finds? I would look…but my puppy ate the back cover off, along with the last “few” pages almost two years ago. Fodder in the woods now…

    • Mine doesn’t but it is a fifth printing, you can check which printing your book is near the beginning of the book.

      • Thank you Idle dreamer

        The one with the marks of mine is original first copy because it doesn’t have that notation as being otherwise.

        My second signed book is fifth printing and has nada in it.

        Anyone else with an original first printed TFTW book?

        • Nice on the first printing, if it isn’t signed and you get the opportunity to have the book signed, the first printing would definitely be the most valuable copy and signed would make it considerably more of a value.

          • That book is unfortunately marked up with every noun of the poem, plus repeated words, names, numbers, money, etc. I plan to paint it’s fore-edge. I’ll see if Forrest can sign it. Thanks Idle dreamer

    • Copperhead, my TFTW book is first printing (3000 copies)… there is no pinkish rectangle or smudges…k see ya my friend

      • Copperhead,
        If you open up the map, hold it up to a light and look through it from the back side (near the lamp) you can see the red prunting on the map side near where you explained. Maybe the ink is bleeding through the paper some… just a thought…. see ya

        • It appears raised and when looking at front side of map it shows through near Worland.
          Worland is like the ‘USA large bronze casting’ Mecca.

          But my map also has a tiny mark in same ink used for big S on NM. But it shows through map at Colorado above Trinidad on JFK highway.

          All this may be printing error caused by buildup of pigment inks? But curious it’s near the lamp on back of map.

    • “The Dude” chapter in “Too Far To Walk,” is a fun read. A couple years ago, I spoke with the front clerk who had worked there for years, she could not point out which would have been room number four that Mr. Fenn spoke of in his book. It was nice to have chatted with her and learn how other searchers had spoken to her about the Chase.

      • I agree. Great DUDE story. PDenver
        Bet your chat was nice for sure.
        Good luck this year.

      • While thinking about this post, I’m now wondering if the office was open to their guests at all hours like they are now. Could Mr. Reagan (President Reagan) have gone to the front desk to ask someone to open the door for him, rather than crawl through a window?

        • In book there was no way except to climb through window
          Portal –

          Portal creek mint be hinted at by this story?

          • I’m not sure, but it’s possible. Mr. Fenn has mentioned this same word in a scrapbook before; Shilo shoveling snow from his portal.

          • SB 172 uses the word “portal”

            “I wonder if the owners of my home a hundred years from now will appreciate the dichotomy that
            stands just off the east end of my portal”

            One has to wonder what secrets are hidden in these words..

            di·chot·o·my
            dīˈkädəmē/
            noun
            noun: dichotomy; plural noun: dichotomies

            a division or contrast between two things that are or are represented as being opposed or entirely different.
            “a rigid dichotomy between science and mysticism”
            synonyms: contrast, difference, polarity, conflict;

            HUMMMM? JDA

          • pd
            Also SB 164 has the following poem:
            A wanderer chanced upon this driftwood art, shipwrecked and lonely on a sandy shore. At least to me it plays that part; an olden sailing ship,
            and nothing more.
            Or maybe it’s a desperate soul, a sentimental sort, standing on a sodden knoll, searching for his Candy Ann, who, absent from her role, lately departed from a distant port.
            And no one was there to pay her toll.
            Or is it not his throbbing Ann, wrapped in shroud against the breezing cold, yelling with all she can, a screaming voice so loud, and nothing there is told.
            Is she below the saline DOOR forever reaching back no more?
            But is it all for naught, wild upon my imaginations fraught; dreaming of wild journeys too late sought, or of cold battles where on some Flanders Field my favoured companions fought.
            Let it stop now, and be no more.
            This mysterious vestige of a sailing past, shappend by myriad winds and waves, occupies my hand at last, subject to whatever whim my mind, in its wanderings, craves.
            And that will henceforth, forever be her lore.

            A treasure searcher, a pleasant stranger, posted me this wonderful wooden hand-size object along with words that bare, wonderful enough to covet, yet too personal to share.

            This paragon of expression stands straight and bold. Its blackened keel, harden by fire, hints of battles fought and won. A single jib yet unfurled, still serves testament to this vessels willingness to bare its gun.

            Surprisingly the forces of oceanic turbulence combined to pare this ready boat. I’ve told you what I think, but what else does it know?

            Thank you for the favor, Mister Poe. f

            Here he uses “door” instead of portal, but why a “saline door” or portal??? JDA

          • A door to a cache….mountain man cache….doesn’t have a hinge, but it’s a door to the contents below.

            A door can be like climbing through the rock portal on one hiking trail at a national owned place.

            Portal creek on the Gallatin River

            Portal is opening to wikiup\teepee

            Lots of possibilities

          • JDA,
            Good question for thought.

            Portal means door.., entrance.
            Saline door is a description of a type of entry… saline for salt, salt water… entrance to the ocean. But does it have to be on top of the waters [ for what is being relayed in the SB ]?

            Some may not agree because it’s not straightforward enough, buuuut…
            that interpretation is from the mind of an abstract thinker, attempting to use logic as well….

            But lets talk about “below” that door…
            Below in this case can mean under or underneath.
            “Put in below” could refer to under. But under what? … WWWH? And if so… why would we be concerned about what wwwh is if we knew what hoB is, right? Hmm I wonder if there is another meaning/idea of Canyon in the same poetic style?!

            Naaa… C’mon Seeker, that’s over complicating plain english and straightforwardness. We need to make up and unknown distance to travel…
            LOL, I might as well say it first, and save others the time and effort.

          • Seeker;

            Saline Door – Being a stone sculptor, I have long been fascinated by stone. Limestone, Travertine and Marble are all made up of calcium carbonate – most usually from the crushed shells of marine life – Saline living creatures. – So, could a saline door be a stone made of Limestone, Travertine or Marble? Even Sandstone has a lot of calcium carbonate in it Limestone outcrops that get eroded, become sand, that under the right conditions becomes sandstone – another possibility for a saline door. A sandstone or limestone “cap” covering a recess into which the waters of a rivulet or small stream flows = a Saline Door. Just possibilities to ponder – JDA

          • Seeker;

            Being a stone sculptor, I have long been fascinated with stones. Limestone, Travertine and Marble are all made up of small crustacions, that settled to the bottom of the ocean (Saline creatures), under heat and pressure, these little animals became stone.

            Even Sandstone can have its beginning as Limestone, eroded outcrops become sand that with enough time and pressure becomes sandstone.

            So, a sandstone or limestone rock could be referred to as a saline door, especially if it were a “cap” stone over a recess into which a rivulet or small stream flowed.

            Just a couple of points to ponder – JDA

          • Good thinking JDA

            The word ‘cap’ fits so many possibilities.
            My fav is the hoodoos that look like comanchero Jose T.

            That story paints two pics for me
            The sombrero
            The cape.

          • JDA,
            I’m familiar with the idea of the process… and just for fun… the Earth will fold within itself [Seduction. No, not that seduction, the other one.] every 600 million years or so.
            { lol, the crap I can retain and I still can’t remember what is on my honeydew list, go figure }

            But just because I like the NGC & History channels, and your a stone sculptor .. would knowledge of rocks and their millions of years journey to be come as such, be more likely, than understanding word usages-?- in reference to the poem words?
            IDK… maybe.

          • Hidden creek is a tributary of portal creek

            Shakespeare had a Portia with 3 casks. One gold, one silver and a lead cask… the winning one had a scroll inside.

          • Hi Seeker;

            The words in the poem are the most critical. The poem written by Forrest – outside of the search – is interesting, and I doubt that it holds hidden clues for the “Chase” poem, but I just enjoyed “marrying” the ideas of a “Saline Door” with the “Hidey Hole” in the Chase poem. No specialized knowledge needed for the “Chase” poem, but I just threw it in for comment – JDA

          • JDA—-

            I don’t have the book in front of me, but I think Forrest in “once upon a while” changes the words “saline door” in the poem. I’ll check it out later, but I’m pretty sure he does.

          • “Once Upon A While,” page 155:

            ‘…
            Maybe it’s the spirit of Amelia,
            Wrapped in kelp against the breezing cold;
            Silent with a voice so loud,
            And nothing in reply is told.
            Is she below the saline shore?
            In company with the sweet Lenore,
            And the much loved Annabelle Lee
            In some kingdom by the sea.
            …’

          • PDenver—

            Thank you— yes in the poem version in OUAW he changes “door” to “shore”.

  5. And why is each city have a small circle ………except one near Cody which has nothing listed near a circle ???

      • Copperhead, I enjoyed reading all the stories. Can’t appreciate the do-ers without the preservers and sharers of important literature. That Bob Edgar guy was pretty spectacular. And the tactical smarts of Chief Joseph too Thanks, OS2.

        • Thanks OS2
          Bob Edgar was a friend of ‘bearpaw’ signature artist George Dabich who Fenn knew very well. Dabich gave Fenn his brown Stetson and numerous precious memories as well according to his books.
          Wonder what Fenn knicknamed that hat?

      • That area brings back some memories. Lots of history and poem matching qualities on that side of Cody but i just couldn’t pull it all together. When first starting out huntin ff’s trove, that creek right south of the old Brown fur farm was where i found a most intriguing blaze for me. An eyepopping wow at first discovery.
        Check it out… 44, 31′, 19.30″ N 109, 4′ 42.82″ W

    • Didn’t notice that and though there is Ralston and Willwood nearby, neither seem to align with that dot. As Fenn noted he didn’t have them put an X on the map I would assume it is a mistake.

  6. I typed in; Who am I ? Although the search yielded no answer…it had a lot of interesting reading listed. I’m still wondering…

  7. This year for Easter we did something similar to last year but in a larger area rather than our back yard. We wrote a poem, very similar to FF’s for the kids to find 3 eggs. The first two eggs had more of the poem to help them move forward. By the way the “kids” are 18 and 13.

    I think by doing this it shows a good example of what people do to a poem to complicate it. For instance, as you will see below, there is a section that literally tells you to sit on the bench and look around it. Because of the water high part earlier in the poem, my son decided to head off to the river, near the bench, to look first. Anyway, it was fun and is good practice to see not only how you would write the poem but how people respond to the clues. So many times I had to tell them to go back to the poem and try to understand every word. If anyone wants to follow along then look up a Mission Trails Map. By the way, it was purposefully much easier than FF’s. Here it is:

    As we have gone together in there
    With our eggs bold (2 more sections of the poem hidden in easter eggs)

    We can keep our secret where
    And hint of riches blue and oval (blue easter eggs)

    Begin it at the Grasslands Creek Crossing (on the map)
    And take it in the river down (san diego river)

    Not far, but not worth the walk
    Put in above the water high (park near the mission dam which has a waterfall)

    Take a break in memory of Harvey Tash (a bench with “In memory of Harvey Tash” plaque)
    Look around the seat to find your stash
    (First egg was in the grass against a leg of the bench)

    Inside Egg 1:

    A precious wetland is no place for the meek (a sign on the trail down)
    From there go above the creek (cross the bridge over the creek)

    The sensitive habitat is drawing nigh (sensitive habitat sign just past the bridge)
    But follow the cable back to where an egg is in lie (cable near the sign that goes two directions. One is back toward the bridge. The egg was in the end of an iron beam at the end of the bridge)

    Inside Egg 2:

    There’s no paddle up your creek (walk up the creek)

    If you’ve been wise and found the Easter Bunny (used a rock to draw an easter bunny on a larger rock. Chalk-like so it washes off)
    Look quickly down, your quest to cease (egg under a corner of the rock where there is a small gap above the ground)

    Take your egg and go in peace (the note inside said “April fools, hope you enjoyed the hunt.” We gave them easter prizes back at home though)

  8. What IF…. SB 158 is really a MAP of a place AND the little JAR that contains his autobiography is a PORTAL/VIEW?

    • >>>> Just a conspiracy theory … <<<<

      This chest photo (SB158) was taken outdoors.

      And by the state of the chest, he must have suffered through actions of time exposed to nature. (rain, cold, humidity)

      This implies that the chest was recovered and then hidden again.

      The table has also suffered weather and has darker edges.

      I found only one park uses this kind of table with borders.

      • Hello Marcelo. I believe the table shown in the photo of SB158 is his kitchen table. The same one spoken of in the scrapbook about the spice jars.

      • Hello Marcelo. Would you be so kind to explain why you believe the chest was recovered and hidden again, please? There’s a link somewhere on this blog where there’s a photo shown of the chest being in Mr. Fenn’s vault.

      • I don’t know how you came to that conclusion, MC

        All I see is wood, and it appears to be oak [ not sure ]. My guess is a table or floor. More likely a table [ as you suggested]… I wouldn’t want to place 42lbs on the floor, only 10″ sq, and try to pick it up with just my fingers.

        Anyways, I don’t think the plastic cases within the chest, other metals on the stones [ some looking silver ], would hold up to being so clean [ not even dusty ] if out in the whether [rains, humidity, cold] even if in the chest. I mean, why take the time to hide it, recover it, add or clean plastic containers and shine those gems, take a photo, just to re-hide it?
        But I can almost guarantee the wood has not seen the out doors [such as a picnic table with year round exposure]. Old sure, used yep, outside? I highly doubt that. Besides… other pic we have seen don’t even have storage cases, the coins are free-ranged along with many gold nuggets. This pic [imo] is just what is stated; “It shows the treasure chest **at a time*** when I was still deciding what it should contain.”

        A good conspiracy theory hide the facts. PS.. the chest does date back to 1150AD. Sooo…

        • Seeker,

          The “only” thing that matters to me in this photo is:

          1º – The photo was taken outdoors, open sky.

          2nd – The table. (Not from Forrest’s kitchen!) I found this type of table in only “ONE” place.

          The rest of the theory was distraction. Because I’m on vacation and spend 12 hours researching the Poem.

          • You may be correct, Marcelo, but it sure looks like it to me:

            https://dalneitzel.com/tag/peggy-fenn/

            “Once Upon A While,” “Sweet Fragrances,” page 19 shows the kitchen table. The woodgrain to the table with the treasure chest being displayed on it appears to be the same kind of wood as shown on this page.

            I’m trying to understand what you are trying to explain, but I’m having some difficulties.

          • This photo was taken outdoors in the open.

            It is noted by the reflection in glass and nuggets (it is not flash directional light or normal lamps)

            The shadow on the left side of the chest is slightly blurry. (typical of cloudy days)

            It may have been taken near the place that was hidden.

            This photo has coins. On the top of the chest you can clearly see one.

            The table type / pattern may suggest a location.

            The table of the photo of the carnations is round and is varnished / varnished and has narrow boards.

            The table in the photo of the chest has wide planks, is not varnished and the dark edges suggest that it is not round.

            So I searched parks looking for pictures of tables … and I found a place with this type of table … of course I will not say what it is !!!

            Understood? It is a “CLUE ALMOST”.

          • Well, Ya made me look… again.
            I know don’t how you see ‘outdoors’ in that pic, MC.
            Unless you can enlarge that pic to catch a reflection of clouds or trees or something, in one of the plastic holder or larger stone, I don’t see how you can be so sure. The table [seemingly oak, imo] could be the same wood some places use for outside furniture. Rough cut oak was used for years on barns and many have stood for a 100 years or more. So I can’t argue about the table much… but the lighting seems even, looking more like florescent lighting, and I don’t see outside ageing in that wood.

          • Hello Marcelo. As a reminder, in Scrapbook 158, it is titled, “An Early Arrangement”. Not all of the items that are shown in the photo are in the treasure chest now. Some of the items that are included in the treasure chest is located under “Treasures Bold” on Dal’s website.

          • Marcelo…the pic in SB 158 is an early arrangement of the chest before he hid it. The items were changed and rearranged etc. Read the whole SB entry.

          • MC,
            While I’m just having some fun checking this out…
            The difference in the photos you posted [ SB 158 ] and PD posted show the possible same table or type of tables in fenn’s home… the reason they don’t give off the same luster ‘could be’ The SB 158 was take [ lets say 1990’s with an older conventional camera ] earlier than the one PD refers to in sweet fragrances, which seem more like fenn is using a cell phone camera.

            But the one thing you haven’t been able to excuse is… while the chest has aging [ be it old or from outdoors ] the contents of the chest are spit and shine, not even a spec of dust.
            There’s no way those were outdoors in and unlock chest, retrieved, a pic taken on site, and then placed back in hiding….
            It seems to me there woulda, coulda have been two different cameras involved at the same table, in fenn’s home, and possibly a decade separating the technology of each camera.

            Nice catch PD… this was fun to play with.

          • More:

            Compare the two photos.

            The first photo (SB158) has a crumpled near the lock.

            The second picture (of disclosure of the book) does not have.

            I do not think that’s worrying. I’m just using “EVERYTHING” and “ANYTHING” in my searches.

            https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JdUTceShOpM/maxresdefault.jpg

            https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/4252e7af1a3888197136b717f5f93523f21f8eb2/r=x1683&c=3200×1680/local/-/media/USATODAY/GenericImages/2013/03/30/ap-treasure-hunt-16_9.jpg

          • MC,
            Unless I’m wrong… the only way for the lid to be tightly shut would be due to; a locking of the lid.
            fenn has been admit the key is inside the chest and the lid unlock. With that said… how can it be possible for the slightest winds to not blow dust under the lid, through the key whole or moister not enter and lay on the items? There would be at the very least water marks on that plastic… LOL in 1150AD I’d doubt there was major concern about dust getting in the chest.

            And as I quoted before ~ ‘This pic [imo] is just what is stated; “It shows the treasure chest **at a time*** when I was still deciding what it should contain.” That alone killed the fun out of a conspiracy theory. But even without that, the pic doesn’t give any evidence the chest and contents within, spent any amount of time outdoors @ the hide. Not unless fenn took hours to clean every item and replace them.

            The real question would be… why? Why go back to the hide just to take yet another pic of the chest after hiding it. fenn had a professional take pics for his book… what could possible give fenn a reason, especially if that should have happened after the release of the book?

            Guessing that fenn hid the chest at “age almost eighty” he hid it in “summer” and his B/D is in Aug. This could imply, before the release of the book at or near Jan 2010, a window of [mostly winter months] approx 6mo. and good whether time of less-than 3 months.. hypothetically… WHY-?- take a change just for a picture.

            After the book release, that would be foolish / idiotic. But now we’re at the point of this fun little adventure of Conspiracy…
            What exactly would the conspiracy be about?
            And
            Why don’t you believe what fenn stated in that SB?

      • What I do not understand is:

        As people complicate simple things,

        And when complicated things come up they want to simplify.

        Either the person analyzes “EVERYTHING” or analyzes “NOTHING”.

        What you can not do is get in the way.

        As the saying goes:

        “The wind never blows in favor of who does not know where it wants to go.”

        • Even a “whatIF” needs backing up.

          You imply, ‘what if’ this pic was taken outdoors, on site. Your explanation lacks common sense. Nothing has dirt on it, and as I explained, how can it not if outdoors with an unlock lid.
          You can’t explain why fenn would take the chance to go back just to take a pic. Can’t explain the similarity to the table in at least two pic from fenn’s home.
          Really can’t explain about the lighting involved. etc.

          You can not try and simplify anything when guessing is the only part of that attempt. What you call “strange in the picture” could ‘simply’ be explained by a little research of other pics… other wise… the biggest part of your WhatIF is that fenn had to be lying when he said;
          “It shows the treasure chest **at a time*** when I was ***still deciding*** what it should contain.” and that fenn said, he has never been back to the spot after hiding the chest.

          Your scenario works around the idea that the chest was already hidden, and fenn had to go back to take this pic. Sorry MC, Logic aside, common sense for me say; you simply don’t believe fenn.
          That is fabricating, forcing, manufacturing what you hope works for your solve… hence apparently a table.

          As you said; ‘What you can not do is get in the way.’

          I wasn’t attempting to.
          But mu gut felling is; as you’re returning home, you’ll have a great epiphany of where you went wrong, and surely know then, where the chest is… but have to wait for next year to go get it.

          End of commentary.

          • I have “common sense,” and he often questions “absolutely EVERYTHING” before going on to believe in “EVERYTHING”.

            Being over 66,000 links can be on the other side of the planet.

            People less than 500 feet can be at 50 feet.

            Remember this is a “game” that uses the “rules of Forrest” and not yours. (or conventional)

            The chest may be buried in the middle of a grove in the center of a town.

            You can be in sight of everyone next to a bronze statue … and no one notices.

            That’s why I say:
            Whoever finds the chest paid attention to “EVERYTHING”.

            If you’ve been researching and leaving BOTG for so long, you have not found it yet, it’s because you did not pay attention to “everything” yet.

            The fact that I think differently than anyone has ever thought can say anything.

          • Marcelo,

            Agreed on the Yellowstone thing. Read that too. That is why I say the TC is not in Yellowstone. My solution is in New Mexico. Closer to FF’s home and easier to get to for FF. I believe he spent more of his life in NM than anywhere. His attachment is to NM.
            This is just my opinion.

    • Hello The Lone Aspen. Would you be so kind to explain how this might be, please?

      • Hi P Denver,
        Because, IMO, I have been there – the Porcupine Story SB161 Led me there after discovering the Twin Towers – one of which had been shot like a machine gun. The repeater watches are Rocks and the TWO gold mirrors are two sets of twin Aspens and the little jar area was the Portal/View. The necklace and row bracelet also represent things that are on site (do not want to give everything away)!

      • I’m sorry pdenver, I just saw your post. I was at the Masters and there are no electronic devices allowed. To answer your question, unfortunately I have several family members that have medical issues, so I’m unable to make the long trip to the west.

        • I’m sorry to hear this, Eaglesabound, but I’m sure you’re still having fun with the Chase. I hope you’re having a great time at the Masters.

      • Nice bucket list item, Eaglesabound: The Masters @ Augusta! I’ve been to a number of U.S. Opens, but have never won the lottery to attend Augusta. Your first time? Statistically I’d guess so — unless you happen to be a marshal, a caddy, or (perish the thought) … a player!

        • It’s actually my second time. I had Sunday tickets last year! I have all my family members get in the lottery and my cousin won this year.
          I’m a player, but like Mr. Fenn my handicap is a little to high.

          • What FUN!!! Saw the US Open at Torrtey Pines a few years back, when Tiger was playing well – WHAT FUN!!! I envy you – JDA

          • Sorry JDA, no reply button under your post. ..
            It’s very exciting to see all your favorite players in person and Augusta is the most magnificent golf course I have ever seen.

          • JDA: then you were at the same Open I was — one decade ago! Extra drama with a full 18-hole playoff on Monday between Tiger and Rocco Mediate — which was STILL tied after 18 holes and had to go to sudden death. Small world!

          • Though no where close to being a Master’s champion, I had the privilege of working and playing gold with a young and recent graduate on the Arizona State golf team in the Philippines. His granddad was a touring pro and his dad a teaching pro and could this guy hit the ball!

            Within days of arriving and with clubs rented from the clubhouse, one of them a broken driver and only tennis shoes to play in, and he shot 2 over on a course he had never played before! The caddies were stunned when his tee shot on the 18th hole was over some trees in the jungle, a line NO ONE had ever tried before landing about 90’ from the green.

            He was a treat to play with and should have gone pro.

            Pinatubocharlie

          • Eaglesabound: my handicap is more than a little too high. Let’s just say I’m going to have to live a very long time if I want to have any hope of shooting my age (at least on an 18-hole course!) This reminds me of a couple caddy jokes that would be quite applicable to my golf skills:

            “How do you like my game, caddy?”
            “Very good, sir. But personally I prefer golf.”

            “You’ve got to be the worst caddy in the world.”
            “I don’t think so, sir. That would be too much of a coincidence.”

        • Hi, Eaglesabound, if you should happen to talk to Rickie Fowler while you’re there, tell him I said hi, thanks.

  9. MC, the picture of the chest used for the book was likely touched up with Photoshop, or a similar app so blemishes may not appear.

  10. Just got an ad on the side of the page for a Ritani Diamond Engagement Ring with the text, “Consider this your HINT”, clearly a pointed signal from F…

    It Rain
    I Train
    I ran it
    Train I as in 1?
    Someone must help me solve this!!!!

    Or maybe “this ” is the hint? but I can only seem to make one other word out of those letters and though I seem to say that particular word to myself a lot, usually preceded by “oh” or “horse”, but I’m not sure that gets me any closer to the treasure…

    Unless those outhouse people are on to something about the HoB… I just cannot seem to reconcile that with “worth the cold”

  11. Since everyone is talking about pictures of the chest, what are searchers’ opinions on the identity of the small, golden, multi-pronged object to the left of the chest on TTOTC page 126? I’ve never seen it mentioned in any of Forrest’s descriptions of the chest’s contents.

      • Hi pdenver — you may be right. HMA thought the same thing — an ancient bead.

    • Oz10: I have no idea. Looks like a knob to something, or maybe a golden top. In my book, something looks odd about how it intersects with the coin above it.

      • Looks like a sprocket. The square gears means is old. The newer kind have rounder edges. I will say it’s from a fishing reel. But if it is real gold and that small size it could be from an old clock or some navigation instrument.

      • It is odd that the coin appears to be propped up by it and intersected by the object. And then there is a black line on both of them that looks like a shadow coming from nothing almost.

  12. Either I am dumb or just confused about why photos, pictures or drawings seem to always have hidden clues. Yes, there are subtle clues mainly in TTOTC that weren’t intentionally put there, but from all that I have read it would be like a needle in a haystack to find them outside of the book.

    It also seems that the comment F made, “There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them.” is being applied to everything outside of the poem more so the “risky” comment that also includes pictures, paintings, drawings.

    Forrest is being very gracious with his SB, but not everything is a clue or hint. The focus I believe should be within the poem its self. F has said to read the book, read the poem then read the book and reread the poem over and over. [the gist of the comment.] The primary focus is on the poem not so much outside of the poem.

    I am not minimizing any thing that F has given us, in fact I find all interesting. I’m just saying way too much attention is given for those things outside of the poem.

    So…………….why all the attention to pictures, paintings, drawings?

    IMO

    • CharlieM

      Simple:

      If you have a girlfriend, but are not sure about her reliability, you would ask her if she is trustworthy, or, to whom do know her?

      To ensure your solution in the chase hunt, you need more data than the ones in the poem.

      **Unless you’ve found the real WWWH. (Uniqué)

      For the words of the poem fit into hundreds of different places.

      Now if at the location of your solution you have a table with exposed edges to the time (same as the photo of the chest – SB158) … that would be “one more small clue” that you can be right!

      I, from here in Brazil, without speaking English, I have already found 3 solutions (theory) well convincing !!!! I started researching on March 4th of this year. (ONE MONTH!!)

      One of them I even posted “whole” here !!!!
       
      >> Better to have a little something than to have nothing at all. <<

      • Marcelo…you have great ideas and have good instincts. All ideas are worth looking at, yours included.
        I have always liked the picture of the chest on the small rustic table. I just happen to like rustic. Perhaps that particular photo is symbolic to the idea of the chest portraying “father on the banco” ? And maybe similar to how it rests now. Food for thought to when BOTG. There have been many discussions over the years about various photos Fenn has used in his books…and at this point it is just speculation at best. Fun though…if you are patient.

        • Ken,

          I analyze “EVERYTHING” and I listen to “EVERYTHING”.

          What I do not use, I play in the trash. (discussions of “IT” – for example)

          But I do not despise anyone’s ideas. If I do not agree, I’ll be quiet.

          “All of us” have the “same” chances of “all of you.”

          If the photo has some different detail, why not search ???

          Why underestimate the ability to analyze from other people ???

          For example:

          Someone said there was a drawing in a Forrest book that looked like a train.

          I looked at the drawing and saved it in HD.

          The other day I found an old village near a Chimney Rock that had practically the same design as the person said.

          This is the difference between who only “looks” and who “Investigates”.

          The researcher observes “ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING”.

          I do not usually give opinions without knowledge and research exhaustively before.

          That’s why I said that that picture (SB158) is not an old photo, nor taken inside his house.

          So “I” know that there is a city in the RMs that Forrest defines as WWWH.

          That is why I know the canyon to which he refers.

          Because I’m not just looking, I’m investigating and hunting.

          If possible, this year I will be BOTG.

          And if I am wrong, I will go another, and another, and again.

          “Charlie … I think some folks just need to do that. I say … let them.” That struck me as arrogant. I did not expect that from you, who seems so experienced.

          • my meaning is/was, just let them…as in…why not. simple really, without innuendo. everyone here has an opinion Marcelo.
            while your on the topic of “it”…some dismiss “it” and that’s ok. for such a small word…”it” has a lot more going for “it” than first meets the eye. “it” can indicate subjects or objects, either previous or following. in some instances depending on the writer’s intention/s, “it” can denote things such as time, distance and travel. those are just a “few” ways…but I suspect if “it” were corrupted in a particular way “it” could mean something else. happy hunting …

          • Ken, Charlie, Seeker, Copper and others,

            You look like a good guy to me.

            “IT” in Spartan and Romanian is also translated as: “Ideal Solution” or “something to be done” (English)

            I took this into account in my solution. That’s when I found what the WWWH was.

            One tip: it’s not “WWH” – it’s “W” WWH = “in what”

            If I put anything other than what you are accustomed to, it is because I have researched this several times.

            I’m not one of those who comes proud. But I do not like contempt.

            OK??

          • Sounds good Marcelo. I truly don’t understand what “Spartan” and “Romanian” translations have to do with a poem written in plain English, and that’s ok too.
            I’m just a simple man…whose father wears galoshes…and I don’t think anyone was being contemptuous.

          • Marcelo, good catch on the definition of “IT”…It makes sense to me given FF references to ancient Greece, and mythology. I think “it” was used as a decoy of sorts to draw attention away from the actual clues.

    • It’s simple CharlieM, because he has done something to them. He would never write a book without illustrations. When it is totally obvious that pictures, drawings, whatever have been manipulated, it’s part of the big picture. Mostly, from what I see, it’s just f having fun.
      There is one picture Eric Sloane gave him. The original picture is slightly different then the one f showed. If he took the time to do something, it’s just a good idea to see why.
      Like I said, it’s mostly f having fun, but if it pans out to something, with the theme of those pics, or stories then that is rather “wise” to “find”. (if you get my drift).
      The main thing is CharlieM, it’s part of the chase, so deserves a little attention. Believe me, I’ve folded those pics in on themselves, mirrored them, moved levels onto levels, made paper airplanes, lol, you name it, it’s just f having fun, have only found 1-2 things that may be construed as a hint. But, in playing with landscape from a spot the poem gave, from a pic, yielded a very big clue, so I guess just go with what you see. F does have a lot of pics of his early years, who knows. Part of the chase, I’m looking.

    • Charlie,
      I agree, read and study the poem over and over.
      That has got to be where the juicy stuff is.
      Mr. Fenn spent a lot of work and a long time on getting it just right.
      I think some people have fun with the pictures or maybe they get distracted easy.
      Who knows, when it’s all over, one of them might of found the perfect picture with the right information….
      And, be laughing…
      Clearly Clueless

      • CharlieM….
        My comment was directed to his posting.
        I agreed with his thoughts.
        CC

  13. The poem was written by someone who likes the indigenous culture and lives in a locality basically created by Spaniards and Mexicans and even some Portuguese and Italians.

    I can bet that he speaks several words in Spanish, Castilian, Portuguese, Indian, among others.

    He needs to know this in the collector business.

    Even words in Portuguese are in the region !!

    Has it ever occurred that he may have used figurative language related to the languages that originated the tracks’ sites?

    NM and CO has a lot of influence in these languages.

    WY and MT have very little. But they do too.

    I see this in the names of cities and towns, canyons, roads, lakes, rivers …

    • In seeing the names of towns, cities, canyons, etc…, tells me that you are using a map to find things. I may be wrong, but believe that is not the way to go about solving the poem. Since you are fairly new to all this, I just think more energy into solving the poem, find the niche, find the pattern, whatever is better used then looking at maps to find a spot. If the poem tells you to look at different languages, have at it. I have not seen that, but who knows. Still, very unlikely. You’re very inquisitive, use all that to solve the poem. Maybe sound out words, look for something instructing you to do something, you will find your own answers that way. Good luck.

        • Not to the original starters. I would say:
          Book+Poem+Map= Better chance at success.
          It’s just, at the end, all done, could the solve been done with just the poem? Or, did the searchers solve depend on the book(other than the poem), or a map to get the solve?
          If, in the end, you could toss the book and the map you started with out the door when you began, would you get to the same place. If so, then good enough, if not, then that takes away from the “all you need is the poem” comment, in which case it’s probably wrong. He never said you need a good map at the start of your solve, or that the book (minus the poem), will find the chest. They are just as important as the ATF’s, don’t get me wrong, but if a solve needs all this outside info to be solved, I’d be a little skeptical. Only because at the beginning, all he said was that the poem had all you needed.
          Plus, if he intended for the book to play a big role, he would put references of pages in the poem. (which actually he has, IMO). But, I’m sure you agree, it all goes back to the poem…

          • Charlie, I agree with your thoughts. IMO & my own solve & limited experience of BOTG, all you need is the poem and a map for the solve. I actually got to my solve location before ever got TTOTC, and prior to diving too much into the forums.

            That being said, it took the books and the forum, as well as 4 BOTG scouting attempts to help me understand and work out some kinks in my solve, (correcting either location of interpretation of clues) thus leading me to a “specific” place I have yet to search, but will be soon. But now that I have my specific solve, I see that all I really did need was the poem and a map….hindsight makes a difference.

          • charlie,
            My thoughts on the evolution of Forrest responses regarding what is required or what is needed to find the treasure; is one mostly of assumptions.

            I believe Forrest originally said (in his book) that all the clues are in the poem and if followed precisely will lead to the treasure. However, I’ll assert that a MAP at some point was a given in Forrest mind and he sees the poem as driving a searcher to a map (as well).

            So later when Forrest is asked for a hint on how to go about solving his poems mysteries, he explicitly says read the poem and try to marry it to a map…

            But I think Forrest originally just assumed people would sort of, know to do this (thus he’s OK telling people this broadly because in his mind it doesn’t really give anything away).

            As far as reading the book TToTC – the poem was in the book so to some degree the book is also part of the givens. He helped by explicitly stating the book contained subtle hints that the average person would find helpful in solving or interpreting the clues in the poem. But here again, if you are a serious searcher or treasure hunter does he really need to tell you this. Doesn’t just make good sense that the book which heralds a Treasure Hunt is on might be important to read in order to understand the hunts creator.

            Here again he helped even more by saying, there are a couple really good hints (with the remainder living out on the edges). This helps the searcher bound their enthusiasm for discovering endless “hints” and scurrying down every possible rabbit hole. It suggests that as a person makes there way into the solve or even just starting to solve the poem, there is something explicit in the book to keep you going or to assist you in progressing towards the correct interpretations.

            This is important in my estimation because Forrest said there aren’t falss leads in the poems clues and yet they are “tricky” to interpret correctly. I believe the “good hints” in the book help you navigate the trickiness of these clues.

            Not necessarily required but perhaps helpful — Especially if after you see a particular interpretation as possible, then the stronger hints in the book might become more obvious and provide the solver with more certainty in a particular interpretation…But the caution here is the obvious nature of the strong hint versus a “contrivance” of a hint!

            At least that’s the way I see it.

            GCG

          • charlie,

            To further re-enforce my comment regarding Forrest’s “assumptions” relative to the treasure hunt are the facts that he actually publishes a map of the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe in his second book TFTW. The only thing Forrest didn’t take as a given was the Rockies stopping at the Canadian border.

            Then add to this his response to mdc777 in the Jenny Kile’s Q&A’s: “C’mon now agent 777, a map is a map. The more detailed maps are most useful if you have the right map, but I’m not sure I needed to tell you that.”

            Here is saying, C’mon now searchers, do I really have to tell you this! He is assuming people of average intelligence will naturally draw on their experience and imagination, as well as other resources (i.e. his comments regarding how fast people were in his mind, to adopt using Google Earth).

            And that all you need in addition to your experience & the general resources available to the average person — is the poem, since it’s the only place where you will find the clues!

            GCG

          • Charlie, GCG,

            Lets take it a bit farther… Many like to call fenn a wordsmith. While I agree, I have to add in a few other personality traits. Wit, Clever and a bit of mischievous…
            He tell us there are 9 clues, right? Tells us the clues are in consecutive order, they are contiguous. Clue and clew can be/are closely related but not normally caught as such.

            A clue is a ‘piece’ of information that in itself needs solving. A clew is also meant as something that can help with a problem / mystery. in plain english.
            When we attempt to align/string together hint/clues from the book that could help… we might need to keep in mind the idea of fenn likes to bend words that are in the dictionary [ stated in the book as so ]. fenn tells us about the ball of string and the mystery behind its disappearance.

            For me, a hint and a clue don’t appear to be like many hope they are… example “in love with Yellowstone” so the idea is YS is where we need to be.
            Seems a bit obvious to me, sure, it could be that ‘simple’ however…
            I think the idea about the book as helpful is more like the clue vs. clew and could be one in the same. 9pieces that string the poem together from the boo to the poem, only the poem puts them in order. Could both the book and the poem align with each other so that they both string together like ball of string-?- guiding us, leading us,

            The idea; the clues in the poem will lead one to the chest, the book by itself won’t, but the book can actually help because we now know there might be 9 specific string we need to tie together… hence the need for fenn to add 9 into the intro before the poem.
            While others argue there’s 100’s hints and clues and yet others argue they are only confirmation after a solve, and yet others say there’s no usable hints… Did fenn actually tell us exactly how many-?- in such as way we need to understand the clever witted wordsmith and how he enjoys bending a word to make it work?

            Difficult but not impossible? I think he might have needed to tell of 9 clues and used the book to present the poem and clues, to tie into the book… keeping in might that the poem has all the information to “find” the chest… but the book as [ for lack of a better term ] “finds/defines” the poem, without pointing anything out.

            fenn could have used the book only and hid everything within the stories, right? He could have published just the poem and a little intro with it and present that alone. He wanted us to think and act, and purposely made it difficult Yet, giving us the tool to do it.

            So, could the story of the ball of string [ and other stories ] be like instruction of how the book and the poem works?
            Bending words [ preface ]
            Ball of string with a mystery behind it [ Clew ]
            All in plain english.
            Clew ‘in English’; A clue is a hint or a piece of evidence that aids one in coming to a conclusion concerning a crime or a mystery. Clue may also be used as a verb, related words are clues, clued, cluing. Interestingly, the word clue is derived from the word clew. In this case the reference is to the clew or ball of thread that Ariadne had given to Theseus to guide him out of the Minotaur’s labyrinth in the Greek myth.

            OH radio interview;
            fenn; “… I looked up words and definitions of words and changed them, went back and rebooted [ internet? ] It turn out exactly like I wanted…”
            Q&A with Wordsmith;
            fenn ~ “I don’t use dictionaries anymore. I just type the word in Google [internet] for a faster response. It’s fun to make up words and play with different spellings.”

            OK, while none of this help deciding what hints help… is this a reason for fenn having to tell of 9 clues contained in the poem and what we may need to look for in the book as well? Has fenn been hinting all along how we need to work that resource? { ” learn that many of us don’t fully understand some of the words we use every day.f “}
            {The treasure is not associated with a structure… google structure for more information”}
            {Does the book give me any more information than I would get from the poem?
            A: “There are some subtle hints **in the text** of the book that will help you with the clues.  The poem will take you to the chest but the book by itself won’t.” f}
            ~And the famous Nope, Nope answer…

            “All the information to “find” the treasure is in the poem”… does not really exclude the book has defining the poem… It simply says… those pieces of information in the poem will lead to the chest.

            Well, that’s my 2 cents… have at it, as you like… but I think it may explain the “9” was mentioned for a reason.

          • Seeker- you can see a disappearing ball on my story about a fun safe side trip. i got a photo of it.

      • The movie “The Devil’s Advocate” shows how it is possible to get someone to think differently.

        I met a guy who was like that.

        It had incredible power of conviction. It made us think that we had made the decision on our own.

        This is how you sell things of high value. Which are of no use. That normally nobody would buy. That in a financial crisis they lose much value. (art)

        I do not think that’s wrong. It’s the business world.

        That’s how I see Forrest’s poem. He tries to make us think what “he” wants us to think.

        At TTOTC we are attracted:

        1st – the reward (gold) (I doubt anyone would go looking for a candy can)
        2nd – the pride of achievement (to be able to say “I” found, “I” was right)
        3rd – the adventure (which we could do for any other reason)

        The “pure” poem takes you to hundreds of places. The poem “analyzed” takes you to dozens of places. The poem “scrutinized” takes you to some places. The poem “studied with indifference (without your own opinions)” will lead you to a local “ONE”.

        Because if you have “your” opinions or personal desires, you will not be influenced by the malice (several senses) of the poem.

        • Seeker,

          To tell the truth, is that I depended primarily on the poem and a map. I did read the book about 3 times while studying the poem. For the life of me I couldn’t find those subtle hints in the book. I depended on a little knowledge, working with “what ifs” = imagination, a good map=GE to what I believe a solution to the poem. Yes, some ATFs did play a role.

          I worked very hard to stay with the poem, that is why I said up thread, Book+Poem+Map=Sucess. The book helped me to get to know a little about F and the book contained the poem. The poem and the map are most definitely detrimental for a solution.

          That’s just me saying things. Right or wrong way who knows for sure? Chest in hands! I’m still looking to see if I may be wrong.

  14. Agree to most of your suppositions to a certain extent. Many folks have gone down that road trying to translate into Spanish and spent tons of time and money on BOTG with solves derived in that fashion. Sad thing is…Fenn has been asked about using Spanish to English dictionaries. His answer was something like…you shouldn’t have to look words up in the dictionary. Go figure. One of my favorites was one of his(Fenn) answers to a question, I think 2017 he had used English to Polish and back to English(something like that). Pretty comical actually how his answer was certainly skewed out of context…and I believe was deliberate on his part to reiterate how using any translations were not feasible. I see things too…but probably not applicable…to the Chase.
    Have a nice evening Marcelo!

  15. Ronnie from Scotland hasn’t posted for a while. Do you think he made his way to the States to search for the Treasure? I sure do wish him the best of luck if he has.

    • Hi Sparrow (cross-ref: ex-character from Game of Thrones!): I sure hope our good Scot Ronnie hasn’t come stateside this early. That’s a losing proposition. See Dal’s recent pictures from Yellowstone and Cynthia’s on-the-spot weather reporting.

    • I do worry about folks who may be out of their element. Even doing their homework beforehand can create a false sense of security.
      I hope this season is a safe one for all…

      • i tested my solve right before spring began this year. drove from florida to NM. slept in the back of my car. I was staying in the national parks at night. about 7000ft up. I live in north central florida so im at about 100ft above sea level. I never get nose bleeds. but the last day i was in NM i blew my nose and it just started bleeding like crazy. my sinuses were not happy with the thin dry air. they require humid swamp land. so yea i was a little out of place in the mountains vs flat florida. still had a great time. i had never been out west before so im glad finally went. I wish we had mountains here.

  16. Sparrow and Zaphod,

    It’s nice to hear your comments, I’ve been busy doing some DIY jobs about the house, so I haven’t posted for a while.

    Sparrow I haven’t made my trip yet, I am planning to come over about the middle of June, all being well?

    I’m really looking forward too it, however I have never been outside of the UK and I would be lying if I said that I wasn’t a little bit nervous.

    However it’s a once in a lifetime opportunity, you only live once.

    I will be keeping a close eye on the weather forecast, I am now in the process of buying the proper clothing and footwear.

    If the weather has not improved much the time June comes around, I will cancel the trip and come out either in July or August if need be.

    One way or another I will be making the trip this year, especially after hearing Forrests comment on his gut feeling that it will be found this Summer.

    What do you guy’s think about his comment, do you think it will be found this Summer?

    Indiana Jones if your reading this blog, you have been warned.

    Take care everyone, and stay safe.

    The search is now on.

    Ronnie the Scot

    • Hello Ronnie. If I may respond to your question about whether or not the treasure chest will be found this Summer, I believe by some of Mr. Fenn’s recent comments through the media, it might suggest just that. I would continue to make your plans, especially if it’s a once in a lifetime opportunity.

    • Hi Ronnie — glad to hear you haven’t embarked too early. Early April is too early for much of the Rockies; mid-June is much better snow-wise (particularly at lower elevations and lower latitudes). Just have to be mindful of rivers running high in June due to snow-melt runoff.

      As for my opinion re: Forrest’s gut feeling, he obviously knows a lot more about searchers’ progress than we do, so I would not bet against him.

  17. Hey Ronnie,

    Make the trip no matter what happens with the treasure hunt and break those boots in first.
    Nothing kills a great trip like aching feet!

    And when traveling: there is no bad weather, just poor clothing choices!

    GCG

  18. GCG, The real decision a searcher has to make is how much to research. How much of the things that may be hints in the book, poem, SB’s, ect. are worth diving into? You mean mention the obvious nature of the strong hint versus a “contrivance” of a hint. Hard to tell the difference IMO. FF said, and I am paraphrasing, look for things that catch up in your mind. There is enough odd things that numerous things catch up in my mind. Different teas with Olga, large ball of yarn that disappears, the entire chapter that involves Borders, the French grave by the waterfall, a bunch of odd postage stamps, the list goes on. There is enough in the book alone to keep someone researching for years and come up empty.

    The fact is only Forrest knows what is relevant. It is nice to think that things give you confirmation toward a solve yet there is so much information that can be construed so many different ways that it is easy to lean one way or another. It makes us feel good about our area or solution. I have read the poem more times than I can guestimate and have read the book over and over, especially certain chapters. IMO we won’t know what is relevant and what is not until the chest is found. I have found that it is fun to continue to work at this logically from all angles. Looking for hints in the book, just using the poem, using the poem and a map. It has been entertaining and makes me excited for getting BOTG once again. Do I know if anything from the book has helped me? I don’t, not yet. It has been fun to do the research yet I feel that over researching perceived hints has not been that helpful so far for me.

          • Cute, Rickinflorida. 🙂

            Examples of what I posted would be in “The Thrill of the Chase” book, chapter “Looking For Lewis And Clark”: ‘There was almost nothing, but we did shoot an animal that I promised not to talk about.’ There’s also Mr. Fenn stating he didn’t want to talk about what was in the pocket of the military jacket, as well as, what was inside the treasure chest that it meant for the finder. These are just some which comes to mind.

      • I don’t think his Mom was looking for the mailman out the window. I think she was wondering if little ff will figure out that the window was wider than the doorway. 🙂

    • GCG,
      I posted a lengthy idea that includes the “9” [ above ]
      I’ll be honest that the book confuses me as well… but that is our tool to use. Might it be that fenn gave us how to define the poem, by use of the book?

      • Perhaps but that doesn’t jive with the quote: “Emily, All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search. F”

        • Aaron,
          …”to find the chest”…

          The idea is; 9 pieces of information from the book, defines / the scope, of the clues in the poem from the book, that should jive with the clues in the poem.
          Otherwise… ‘Nope’ should be able to use the words in the poem only, right?

          Fenn also stated;
          “they don’t need to read my book. They need to read the poem. The book will help them, BUT they can “find” the treasure “IF” then can decipher the clues that are in the poem.” [ well, what’s hoB? what’s heavy loads? what’s Warm waters halt? ]

          The only “resource” that was given us was the book. However, I don’t think the book gives answers as much as needed suggestion…
          “Right map”? fenn talks about burning a map, uses a screen name of ‘Forest Fire’
          LOL… did fenn actually burn down a forest-?- Hint to the ‘right map’? I mean, is it not a natural thought to see ‘waters’ ‘canyon’ ‘creek’ etc and not reach for a map? but which map…
          Does the ball of string represent clues[in the poem] and clews [in the book] and implying, we need to tie them together..the book and the poem. And he tells us there are 9 that should be considered… 9 in the correct order in the poem, yet not so much in order within the stories, line of thinking.

          I think the thought jives perfectly to the idea of why 9 was mentioned, Why the book helps with the clues, Why Nope can’t just use the word in the poem, and why some could discover the location but not understand the clues… The clues are so subtle that examining the book and the poem as one [ example Clues to Clew ] an attempting to see how word usages work, on a multiple meaning factor, could be the case.

          That would be a difficult task not only to write a poem, but, word usage that are plain english, but clever in idea [ bending words ]. He’s not going to hand answers out … it’s all about food for thought.

          In theory, anyways…

          • Seeker;

            You say, “The clues are so subtle that examining the book and the poem as one [ example Clues to Clew ] an attempting to see how word usages work, on a multiple meaning factor, could be the case.”…and I could not agree more. I think that I have looked up almost every word in the poem, but still feel that there may be a couple that I do not yet know the “hidden” meaning of. DARN!!

            JDA

          • This theory could prove to be true. I haven’t figured it out yet but if a person can find 9 pieces of information in the book that helps out with 9 clues then I’d say they are on to something.

            There is an important part of the nope question that might be worth considering. He said that the person in 500 years does not know “in the mountains north of santa fe”. If a person has the poem and not info then it would be impossible if it isn’t already.

          • JDA,

            All I’m saying is … we might be looking too hard for an ‘individual answer’ from the book for a clue in the poem.
            My example of Clue and Clew would be subtle in nature to give reasoning for the reader to “tie’ all the clues in the poem and info in the book together [without guessing, but more a suggestion on how to proceed]. This is not a ground breaking thought. Others have said similar thoughts.
            My thoughts go to; How are we supposed to see the connections without too much guessing or wondering off to pictures/illustrations or buying other books fenn has read or creating a kitchen sink solve that requires everything in the book etc.

            My example of fenn burning the map is not a new thought either… but when we look at it as a subtle suggestion [a hint to help ‘with’ the clues] and to fenn’s ATF’s ~ GE and or a good map or “right map”, it does make sense. But with no ‘deliberate’ finger pointing… the reader has to really think and analyze while attempting to keep it straightforward and ‘honest’

            Of course that doesn’t help you at all with your personal solve. But IF you can show how your area can work with the book and combined that with ATF comments… who knows… you could be correct.
            For me, there is still more dissecting need with these thoughts, if i can’t align the poem, the book, the AFT, fundamental guidelines, safety tips etc. with a single theory or idea… most likely it’s just trash. The secret is… don’t force… find things /ideas that have actual, possible backing for them.

            Example; you simple can’t take a line in the poem and refer to a book published three years later, as an ‘answer’.
            Maybe an eliminating factor~ [ such as Canada is not where the chest lays in wait ], ~ but hardly an ‘answer’ to some unknown mileage or alternative transport. Or wwh must be fenn’s bathing hole because he writes about in the second book… three years later.

            Although I do get a kick how some call fenn a wordsmith and turn around and say the KISS method is the way. Or the ‘try to simplify the clues’ means to dumb it down to easy wording, but completely ignore, “if it was easy anyone could do it.” or Plain English can not connect clue and clew… it seems they only stop at the basic meanings or phrase that works in their solve, and that’s all, and never compare similarities of word/phrases usages.

          • Aaron,
            Right… where did we hear about mountains N of SF?
            It wasn’t till later fenn mentioned the RM’s, right?
            Is there a connection / idea to the book and the poem that could bring it all together? I’m thinking, sure… yet, is such a subtle manner as not to be deliberately helping… we still need to think, and I can see imagination as a factor.

          • Seeker –

            One of my old solves involved a burned forest that has no replenished itself.

            I will look that up, but let me know if you want to hear more about it.

            (It’s not a current solve for me because back hen I though meek meant fearful.)

            Lugnutz

          • Watching “Longmire” lately. Last ep of Season 1, in the credits, is Forrest Fyre. Interesting, huh?

          • Lugz,
            I don’t think anything relates to a real fire. My idea was the burning of the map in the L&C story.
            Metaphorically… fenn burned a forest… to equate to the good map, right map… with the correct details.

            While almost all maps would have these details, this one would have the correct location. Hence, limiting the guess work on which state, area, region etc. But that alone doesn’t give up a deciphered clue.

            I think it answer’s the idea of; ‘need to know where to start.’ in this case, location of the clues.
            Then, we ‘need to know where to begin’; in this case, clue one.
            I don’t think, repeat think, those two comments are one in the same, even though they seem to be.

            But sure, throw out what ya have. Even if it seems like trash now, it may spark a thought or two… lol.. I’m as lost as everyone else. I just admit it.

          • Seeker;

            When they burned the map, maybe they didn’t burn a forest, maybe they only burned a single tree – Thus it became a “Lone Fire Damaged Tree”. This might become important later in the search. Who Knows?

            In SB 164 one line reads: This paragon of expression stands straight and bold.
            Its blackened keel, harden by fire, hints of battles fought and won, could be talking about this same tree and “If you are brave and in the wood…”
            “Wood” is singular, and could be referring to this same tree. – Coincidences? Who knows. Just misin’ – JDA

          • JDA,

            I see what your striving for, but, think about SB’s in general. Many would like to believe they are full of helpful hint… I can’t argue they are not… but I hold any AFT with kit gloves, especially SB’s .
            If any information is searchable in the future there would need to be a very good connection to the book and / or outside resource… “Clue and Clew”… seems to fit the idea, because of the intro to the poem and the story of a ball of string, and available long term information on words and their meanings.

            But a SB story could be lost for most, if not all, if and when the site shuts down. The book and the poem will stay together as one, because they are as one.
            We, searchers, of this generation have the luxury of fenn’s contributions, however, decades from now, other may not…and more so, in a century or two.

            I personally need a better handshake to take this kinda SB as useful… other than the thought of a single tree, idea. That is, if I dissect as much usable information as I can without stepping into fiction.
            This is one reason I like to keep with audio, video [ a longer life span ], and Q&A’s [ Q&As only because fenn had time to decide which to have posted… even the ones he didn’t answer ] Yet, many of them may fall into the abyss and never know of.

            In any research, or when crossing a muddy creek, I always check the next foot step for depth before stepping on the other.

      • Seeker – I read your lengthy post.

        WyMustIGo has a series of cool videos where he discusses, what he sees as strong ties between the book and the poem. Its very interesting stuff and I have enjoyed what I’ve watched so far however, I don’t think its necessary…

        Albeit, everyone’s minds are different so what flips switches for me may not flip switches for others and vice-a-versa. Everyone will have their own touch stones or those structures which continue moving them forward in their search for interpreting the poems clues.

        GCG

    • Fenn said the book would help on the clues, would not it?

      I can not read the book (language), but I would say it helps in the way of thinking only.

      For example:

      In the chapter “Tea with Olga” (I read in the blog of Forrest).

      What tea is made of? “Warm Water”! and some weed or mate.

      It stays “Halt” for a while in the cup, once taken has to be put into the cup again. (Halt = “interrupt”, “stop and restart”)

      This may be a subtle hint that “WWWH” may be related (“1st W”) to an object where “WW” was temporarily “H”.

      IDK – IMO

    • Aaron,

      The key difference or perspective for a positive outcome or correct interpretation; is ONLY using “what gets caught up in your mind” on a specific solution that you have taken directly from the poem — Not the other way around….It can only corroborate, not really drive the solution.

      GCG

    • It would have made a decent one to answer the quote about the chest being wet. I watched it for a while and that geyser erupts every few minutes and steam fills the hill and trees to the east of it. It stays pretty moist in that area.

  19. I haven’t seen this discussed before. It won’t help locate the treasure, but I think maybe it can give insight into what he hoped to achieve by hiding the treasure. So what would motivate a person (even a wealthy one) to hide a million dollars in the mountains for a stranger to find? Forrest tells us to “look at the big picture” (paraphrasing). In his poem, he says, “So why must I go, and leave my trove for all to seek? The answers I already know…

    Many postulate about the duality and layers of his poem. Applying that logic to the “why”may help to answer why a seemingly sane person would hide a million dollars- it is because not only is Forrest sane, but he is brilliant as well.

    Forrest watched his Dad end his life because of terminal cancer, and then he was told not only did he have cancer, but it was most likely going to take his life. Any person in that situation is going to start thinking about what to do with their estate- and he came up with a plan, but then he survived. So what to do with an extra million dollars you can live without? Donate it to cancer research would be the answer most of us might come up with.

    But Forrest hid his, then wrote a poem and created a treasure hunt. Then he writes a book, with 10% of the proceeds going to cancer research. So if that book (x 3 now) sells 250,000 copies, he has raised that 1 million for cancer research. Plus he has gifted the stranger who finds the treasure with a million (or more) dollars. But it doesn’t stop there. In turn he then promotes indirectly thru the chase, the books of his best friend, thus sending people out to buy those books hoping to find some hint as to the location of the treasure. Which benefits the estate of his best friend by the book royalties. He also helps himself (to a much smaller degree) with the sale of his non related TTOTC books. And how many people do you think the “finder” of the treasure will in turn help either directly or indirectly with the funds from the treasure?

    And what about everyone else? Only one person will find the treasure. But how many lives are changed by the gift of knowledge that all serious searches have received by reading those books and doing the research to solve the poem? And in turn, we then pass on that knowledge to others. Not to mention getting people and families out into nature (family time, exercise, appreciation/respect, etc.). It all really just blows my mind to think about all he is achieving with this treasure hunt.

    As always, happy hunting!

    • KK –

      He is motivated by being a smart aleck.
      Someone said you can take it with you and he said why not?

      I once saw a sales presentation and someone told this guy “It doesn’t take a rocket scientist”. So he went back to school in the evenings and got a degree in Aerospace Engineering”. Then he would carry around the certificate ans say “actually it does, and I am a rocket scientist”. That is the kind of mentality we are dealing with.

      he doesn’t see the necessity for the B at the end of Comb, or the D in Knowledge.

      Lugnutz

          • Hi Zap— Where did the word “Scent” come from? I don’t recall seeing that in the poem? Is it in Fenns book Once Upon A while? Guess I should finish reading it!

          • Hi Spallies — my scent example came from nowhere. It’s not Fenn-specific. It was just a humorous (?) attempt to respond to Lug’s example of comb and knowledge.

      • Lugnutz, I guess if your giving away a treasure worth a million dollars, you may as well have some fun with it!

  20. Alsetenash on February 14, 2018 at 5:32 pm said:

    “Being as this was an email response by FF , me thinks it’s a well thought out creative intent with a purpose. Just like in the Bourne movie where Pamela Landy did an announcement over the airport PA system stating that his entourage has arrived. She used a name of a passport in his collection of fake ID’s in the announcement , one that he hadn’t used in the “grid” yet. Therefore he knew she was communicating to him. So, this scenario could be possible in usage in a FF’s repertoire. IMO. Though, does the end target catch and notice this? Who would really know or is this too much imagination?

    Many writable screenplays within this chase. Imaginations can run wild. One doesn’t need to work strictly with numbers for a calculatory system.

    Wisdom/imagination=handshake. IMO.

    Sure sparked the adrenaline of urgency a blaze.

    Just my odd opinions to no end.”

    Alsetenash (and others),

    I suspect you may be on to something with the Pamela Landy reference – but I hope you’re not. 🙂

          • No but cabRESTo matches forREST and where the treasure lies could mean rest. Lay down is to rest. Who says the poem has to match the area? The end is (severed) it could be anywhere IMO

            How about Wheeler peak. I can peek my secret where? Also Fenn said he talks in circles. If the end is ever drawing nigh then the end is never ending which implies a circle. Why would ForREST place the chest next to a wagon wheel? We know that wagon is said to be along the Santa Fe trail. The Santa Fe trail links New Mexico to Colorado.

  21. “Oh good Lord, would someone just go and get the bloody thing? There is a lot of chatter on this blog and I do so appreciate that, but I have so many important things I need to do, like eating a soft-boiled egg or reading the daily paper. I can’t waste my time perusing each post for additional information. Do get with it and find it, will you? I’ve become rather bored with my armchair search and could do with a bit of excitement. I didn’t choose to be Queen, but someone has go to do the job you know.

    –Queen Elizabeth

    • Sparrow,

      Patients and enjoy the entertainment, no harm no foul. Maybe something will pop up in the meantime. 🙂

    • Whatever (limited, of course) entertainment and camaraderie is provided by
      this blog is another (perceived, of course) benefit of what FF has done in
      providing this hunt. Thanks for posting, y’all (hee hee!).

      The above is my opinion. Yours may diFFer.

    • Ha! Sparrow ~’I can’t waste my time perusing each post for additional information.’

      I’ll help you save time, by saying, don’t read post… they are too long for me to even read.
      foot note; I like hard boiled eggs, and who the heck reads the “paper” any more? I just watch the fake news…

    • Sparrow, I so enjoy your posts. I’ll try to wrap it by Sunday, or I’ll eat a slice of humble pie 😉 Hail to the Queen!

      • I wish you the best of luck, KK, in that endeavor, but I’m curious how you will find the chest at this time of year under all that snow?

      • Good luck to Ya’ – Humble Pie ain’t bad when served warm – I know, I have eaten my share – 🙂 – JDA

        • Well, Sparrow, JDA, Sheriff Billy & deputy, I am eating A slice of my humble pie, due to not being able to search the entire area I wanted to due to snow cover. Still think I have a solid solve, but need to learn some patience. I reckon I have about 3 pieces left to go before I run out of pie & bow out or find the right type of indulgence. Hope everyone is having a good weekend.

          Sorry Humble Pi, I’ve a feeling there have been and will be a lot of helpings of you going around!

          • Welcome back – Sorry you were not able to search as thoroughly as you had hoped. Keep working on your solve, let the snow melt, and the mud dry out, and you might prove yourself a winner.

            As to the pie, save me a slice or two, one never knows, I might run out of MRE’s and need a slice.

            JDA

      • KK…

        Good luck in your hunt.
        The deputy and I are from Lawrence, which you probably know is close to Atchison and Hiawatha. We will give you some room to find it. This is your window of opportunity. We don’t want to shoot down your hopes and dreams. There is still a lot of snow there. Be careful.

        Best of luck!

        1F Billy and the deputy.

        • Thanks JDA, it’s always good to know when you are in good company 🙂 I like pie warm to!

          1F Billy & the deputy- Thanks for giving me a chance! Lol, you know those of us from KS always manage to find our way- over the rainbow and back! No worries on shooting me down, I’ve learned how to get back up in this life- sometimes it’s a good lesson. Rather eat humble pie then not try. You only get so many chances in life to chase a dream. Thanks for the caution of snow cover. I’ve had BOTG 4 times since February. There is still quite a bit of snow in some places in the area I am looking, I have worked around it. Good scouting opportunities, and they have furthered my interpretation of a solve. I have a specific spot this time, and am reasonably certain there isn’t enough snow there to hinder me. If there is, I’ll come back another day.
          Rock Chalk!

  22. “we still need to think, and I can see imagination as a factor.” – seeker

    I will work on more imaginative thinking and get back to you!

  23. I had to laugh at the song they just played over the sound system at Bagby Brewing, partly because I’ve never once heard it before: Sunday Kinda Love. Chase coincidences are funny…

    • HA! What I find truly fascinating is the fact that before I became obsessed with the chase, there were so many things I never noticed. Like which song was playing when/where. Unfortunately, now I pay so much detail to everything around me that nearly everything is starting to become a Chase coincidence…

      Any 12 step TToTC programs been started up yet?

  24. I think I just put the final piece in my solution. All points married to a place on a map. I think it’s time to book my travel plans!!

    Wish me luck!

    TimM

    • TimM…I hope the places stay married…and don’t get separated…or divorced.
      Have a safe trip…

  25. Normally I do not SHOUT when posting, but the following is copied and pasted and I am too lazy to edit.

    “GREEN EGGS AND HAM” (by Doctor Seuss)
    I AM SAM. I AM SAM. SAM I AM.
    THAT SAM-I-AM! THAT SAM-I-AM! I DO NOT LIKE THAT SAM-I-AM!
    DO WOULD YOU LIKE GREEN EGGS AND HAM?
    I DO NOT LIKE THEM, SAM-I-AM.
    I DO NOT LIKE GREEN EGGS AND HAM.
    WOULD YOU LIKE THEM HERE OR THERE?
    I WOULD NOT LIKE THEM HERE OR THERE.
    I WOULD NOT LIKE THEM ANYWHERE.
    I DO NOT LIKE GREEN EGGS AND HAM.
    I DO NOT LIKE THEM, SAM-I-AM.
    WOULD YOU LIKE THEM IN A HOUSE?
    WOULD YOU LIKE THEN WITH A MOUSE?
    I DO NOT LIKE THEM IN A HOUSE.
    I DO NOT LIKE THEM WITH A MOUSE.
    I DO NOT LIKE THEM HERE OR THERE.
    I DO NOT LIKE THEM ANYWHERE.
    I DO NOT LIKE GREEN EGGS AND HAM.
    I DO NOT LIKE THEM, SAM-I-AM.
    WOULD YOU EAT THEM IN A BOX?
    WOULD YOU EAT THEM WITH A FOX?
    NOT IN A BOX. NOT WITH A FOX.
    NOT IN A HOUSE. NOT WITH A MOUSE.
    I WOULD NOT EAT THEM HERE OR THERE.
    I WOULD NOT EAT THEM ANYWHERE.

    • I WOULD NOT EAT GREEN EGGS AND HAM.
      I DO NOT LIKE THEM, SAM-I-AM.
      WOULD YOU? COULD YOU? IN A CAR?
      EAT THEM! EAT THEM! HERE THEY ARE.
      I WOULD NOT, COULD NOT, IN A CAR.
      YOU MAY LIKE THEM. YOU WILL SEE.
      YOU MAY LIKE THEM IN A TREE!
      I WOULD NOT, COULD NOT IN A TREE.
      NOT IN A CAR! YOU LET ME BE.
      I DO NOT LIKE THEM IN A BOX.
      I DO NOT LIKE THEM WITH A FOX.
      I DO NOT LIKE THEM IN A HOUSE.
      I DO NOT LIKE THEM WITH A MOUSE.
      I DO NOT LIKE THEM HERE OR THERE.
      I DO NOT LIKE THEM ANYWHERE.
      I DO NOT LIKE GREEN EGGS AND HAM.
      I DO NOT LIKE THEM, SAM-I-AM.
      A TRAIN! A TRAIN! A TRAIN! A TRAIN!
      COULD YOU, WOULD YOU ON A TRAIN?
      NOT ON TRAIN! NOT IN A TREE!
      NOT IN A CAR! SAM! LET ME BE!
      I WOULD NOT, COULD NOT, IN A BOX.
      I WOULD NOT, COULD NOT, WITH A FOX.
      I WILL NOT EAT THEM IN A HOUSE.
      I WILL NOT EAT THEM HERE OR THERE.

      • I WILL NOT EAT THEM ANYWHERE.
        I DO NOT EAT GREEM EGGS AND HAM.
        I DO NOT LIKE THEM, SAM-I-AM.
        SAY! IN THE DARK? HERE IN THE DARK!
        WOULD YOU, COULD YOU, IN THE DARK?
        I WOULD NOT, COULD NOT, IN THE DARK.
        WOULD YOU COULD YOU IN THE RAIN?
        I WOULD NOT, COULD NOT IN THE RAIN.
        NOT IN THE DARK. NOT ON A TRAIN.
        NOT IN A CAR. NOT IN A TREE.
        I DO NOT LIKE THEM, SAM, YOU SEE.
        NOT IN A HOUSE. NOT IN A BOX.
        NOT WITH A MOUSE. NOT WITH A FOX.
        I WILL NOT EAT THEM HERE OR THERE.
        I DO NOT LIKE THEM ANYWHERE!
        YOU DO NOT LIKE GREEN EGGS AND HAM?
        I DO NOT LIKE THEM, SAM-I-AM.
        COULD YOU, WOULD YOU, WITH A GOAT?
        I WOULD NOT, COULD NOT WITH A GOAT!
        WOULD YOU, COULD YOU, ON A BOAT?
        I COULD NOT, WOULD NOT, ON A BOAT.
        I WILL NOT, WILL NOT, WITH A GOAT.
        I WILL NOT EAT THEM IN THE RAIN.
        NOT IN THE DARK! NOT IN A TREE!
        NOT IN A CAR! YOU LET ME BE!

        • I DO NOT LIKE THEM IN A BOX.
          I DO NOT LIKE THEM WITH A FOX.
          I WILL NOT EAT THEM IN A HOUSE.
          I DO NOT LIKE THEM WITH A MOUSE.
          I DO NOT LIKE THEM HERE OR THERE.
          I DO NOT LIKE THEM ANYWHERE!
          I DO NOT LIKE GREEN EGGS AND HAM!
          I DO NOT LIKE THEM, SAM-I-AM.
          YOU DO NOT LIKE THEM. SO YOU SAY.
          TRY THEM! TRY THEM! AND YOU MAY.
          TRY THEM AND YOU MAY, I SAY.
          SAM! IF YOU LET ME BE,
          I WILL TRY THEM. YOU WILL SEE.
          (… and he tries them …)
          SAY! I LIKE GREEN EGGS AND HAM!
          I DO! I LIKE THEM, SAM-I-AM!
          AND I WOULD EAT THEM IN A BOAT.
          AND I WOULD EAT THEM WITH A GOAT…
          AND I WILL EAT THEM, IN THE RAIN.
          AND IN THE DARK. AND ON A TRAIN.
          AND IN A CAR. AND IN A TREE.
          THEY ARE SO GOOD, SO GOOD, YOU SEE!
          SO I WILL EAT THEM IN A BOX.
          AND I WILL EAT THEM WITH A FOX.
          AND I WILL EAT THEM IN A HOUSE.

          • AND I WILL EAT THEM WITH A MOUSE.
            AND I WILL EAT THEM HERE AND THERE.
            SAY! I WILL EAT THEM ANYWHERE!
            I DO SO LIKE GREEN EGGS AND HAM!
            THANK YOU! THANK YOU, SAM I AM.

            It is my opinion that some of us are closer in the gist of this post. Many thanx to those who posted on this thread in mid-February.

          • SWWOT, The gist of this went totally over my head. Ham? Care to share what I am missing? If not, I totally understand. Happy Hunting

          • KK,

            You may not like what someone on the website is saying, but you eventually come around. For myself, I’m a slow learner and have to be hit up side the head (figuratively) numerous times before I come around.

  26. dal on March 3, 2018 at 12:23 am said:

    “FYI:
    If you’ve been on the blog for the past few months you’ve witnessed a depressing slowdown in performance resulting in pages loading slower and slower and error messages becoming more and more common. We’ve tried a few things on our own which brought a temporary, smattering of relief.

    So this week the blog’s poor performance finally rubbed the wrong searcher the wrong way resulting in his undertaking a thorough cleaning and sweeping of the blog. What he accomplished here is a freaking miracle to me.

    Pages now load like lightning. No more database errors and we have some new tools to keep it running this way.

    So…thanks for your patience and say thanks to Chris who’s work has resulted in a giant increase in blog performance…”

    Thanx Chris!

    • Nice work Chris!!! I was going to suggest pagination as an option to help things along but sounds like there was a lot more to it. I actually like having all the posts on the same page for searching, but loading a page with a lot of posts on my phone can be annoying sometimes.

    • I heard that the cause of the slowdown was people posting entire Dr Seuss children’s books. 🙂

  27. struc·ture
    ˈstrək(t)SHər
    noun
    noun: structure; plural noun: structures
    1. the arrangement of and relations between the parts or elements of SOMETHING COMPLEX.
    “flint is extremely hard, like diamond, which has a similar structure”
    synonyms: construction, form, formation, shape, composition, anatomy, makeup, constitution; More organization, system, arrangement, design, framework, configuration, pattern
    “the structure of local government” a building or other object constructed from several parts.
    synonyms: building, edifice, construction, erection, pile
    “a vast Gothic structure”

    the quality of being organized.
    “we shall use three headings to give some structure to the discussion”

    verb
    verb: structure; 3rd person present: structures; past tense: structured; past participle: structured; gerund or present participle: structuring

    1. construct or arrange according to a plan; give a pattern or organization to.
    “the game is structured so that there are five ways to win”
    synonyms: arrange, organize, design, shape, construct, build, put together
    “the program is structured around periods of home study”

    Draw your own conclusions but I’d caution against an outright discounting of simple “structures”.

    Pinatubocharlie

  28. Secretary Zinke changed his mind about National Park fee increases this year. I guess the outcry was loud and clear…
    Outside Magazine has a good report on his sudden reversal here:
    https://www.outsideonline.com/2294636/zinke-rolls-over-national-park-fees-hike

    This is great…his original plan called for an increase that would have charged $70 per car at Yellowstone rather than the $25 it is now…
    $25 is hard enough to find but $70 was clearly sending a message that our National Parks are not for the poor…

    • Nice news! Seems that public outrage and input worked for once.
      Let’s not let the Parks be turned into Disney World type destinations!
      Perhaps the Centennial budget should have been rethunk and applied more wisely.
      thanks

    • Thanks Dal.

      Last year when I took the family out west, we visited five US National Parks plus 2 Canadian National Parks. It was a huge relief to find out Canada was celebrating their 100th year of it’s National Parks system and had waived all there National Park entrance fees for the year…

      I can’t imagine families absorbing huge fees for multiple park trips, it would greatly impact the number of people who could enjoy one of our greatest national treasures!

      It would be an outrageous move by OUR government, who already uses are tax dollars to support the National Parks, to turn around and charge robber- baron prices to pass through our own lands.

      That would drive me to flattening a few tires of dignitary vehicles.

      GCG

  29. Has anyone heard any more news regarding the recent comment about two new articles coming out soon?

    Ronnie the Scot

  30. Hey all. I’ve been looking for quite a while and I’m wondering when it was determined that the chest wasn’t close to Santa Fe. The book says, “In the mountains…North of Santa Fe.” Based on that, I’d start searching somewhere closer to Santa Fe. However, I got started in the Chase in 2015 and by then Too Far to Walk had already been released.

    When was the moment that “Rocky Mountains” was specified?

    Thanks!

    • Ryan;

      I can not give you an exact date, but in an Interview on 3/12/2013 for the Santa Fe Travelers at minute 8:05. Forrest said the following:
      “The treasure chest is somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe. I have since said that the chest is somewhere in the Rocky Mountains. The Rocky Mountains go clear up into Canada.” f Hope this helps. JDA

  31. Just food for thought. In regards to the latest Featured Q&A on MW, this isn’t the first time FF has mentioned being inefficient. April 4, 2018: “Mr. Fenn, what is a habit of yours that you would like to break?” ~Tom

    “I am too inefficient. Maybe that isn’t a habit, but whatever it is I would like to break it,” f

    In a different Featured Q&A Posted July 2nd, 2014: “Mr Fenn, of all the things you have done in your life, what is it you regret the most?” ~Matt

    He answers in part:……….”I regret that I waste so much time. I’m horribly inefficient and that means at times I’m lazy. There are three books in my computer that probably won’t be finished, although Closet Stories of Taos might be my best writing effort. It’s about 60% complete. At the bottom of my thoughts it seems so empty now. Perhaps I’ve reached the point in my life where I’m more interested in the pie crust than the filling.”

        • Interesting… Tom and Matt? Sounds like a couple of cartoon characters 🙂

          • Lol. It sure is difficult not to think “Jerry” when I hear the name “Tom”. Which leads me to thinking about ice cream, which is never a good thing for me!

        • Thanks pdenver! That’s an interesting one, for sure! Gives me some new avenues to pursue to help confirm my current solve. I saw your thought process over on MW on the Q&A- that is how one goes about marrying clues, IMO. 🙂

        • Closet Stories was a book Forrest was writing before he published TTOTC. It was based on a number of events that happened in and around Taos during the time of the Taos Society of Artists and the Taos Art Colony…roughly 1915 to 1927.

          The artists included Blumenschein, Phillips, Sharp, Couse, Berninghaus, Rolshoven, Hennings, Critcher, Ufer, Higgins and Duton.

          http://www.colony-t.nm-unlimited.net

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taos_Society_of_Artists

          There were other artists in Taos who contributed to the Society as associates and even more artists who resided in Taos but were not members of the society…including Fechin.

          Forrest had close ties to these artists in that he scoured the planet for their paintings and sold them in his gallery along with other “western” artists.

          For a short time Forrest had a second gallery in Taos in the old Fechin house…

          There was a great deal of intrigue and mystery and incredibly colorful characters living in Taos at that time. Including folks like John Dunn, Arthur Manby, Mable Dodge Luhan, D. H. Lawrence…and many more.

          The stories of the characters of Taos are thick and gooey and make wonderful bedtime reading..

          Forrest’s “Closet Stories of Taos” would have revealed some wonderful untold stories based on recordings and interviews and other materials he collected from the folks who lived there during that period…

          Including, Forrest claimed, who killed Arthur Manby!

          It is this rich background and Forrest’s sticky immersion into it that has drawn many to look so closely at Taos and environs as a likely region for the location of the chest…

          I was very interested in the Taos connection years ago and made several searching expeditions to that place…I love the lore of Taos and am addicted to Forrest’s many fascinating associations there.

          I wrote this story about one of my adventures in Taos:

          https://dalneitzel.com/2012/07/08/losing-your-head-in-taos/

          • I wish he would (re)consider publishing this book. I recall listening to a video of his mentioning of this book, and one in particular where it involved Ms. O’Keefe. It really seemed like it would be another great read.

          • Thanks for the link to Taos Unlimited, Dal. I had no idea that D H Lawrence painted in Taos, nor that his paintings were at the Hotel La Fonda. Argh! What a missed opportunity.

    • I think it would be important to link 1) time — 2) pie crust and filling — and 3) the sketches and story in “The Totem Cafe Caper”, which show a pie w/ and w/o filling.

      • I Loved The X Files!!! Any Alien sightings?
        The Totem Cafe Chapter is interesting and can set a “framework”.
        1. What is a Totem?
        2. How many blocks are in town?
        3. In the different Chapters where are the people/places in relation to where Forrest lived – the Biddies, the Graveyard, etc.?
        Knowing these may help you on the search on site as well as figure out how Fenn thinks.
        IMO they are ALL LOCATIONS you could find on your Hike in the Mountains. There is an X (Under the INCORRECT “The Lost Aspen” in the Blazes section) which IMO is at the end of Block 5.
        That’s it for now : )

  32. Given Cynthia’s recent trip report from the Madison and YNP – I thought it a good time to share info on my new avatar – it was taken along the hiking path to the top of Mt. Washburn (off of the Grand Loop Rd) in YNP).

    It looks southeast towards Yellowstone Canyon/Upper Falls.

    I highly recommend the hike, it takes about 3 hours round trip and at the top is a Ranger Station with bathrooms and observation deck from which to tarry scant with marvel gaze…

    GCG

    • Exactly what I am planning to do when I‘m coming back with my son… would you recommend the hike with an 11 year old boy? Maybe june is too early? Can be cold up there, right?

      • It can be cold, we were there in August and the was still snow up there in spots. But I would still start venture up and ask other people coming down about the conditions.

        My 12 year old daughter went with us no problems so I don’t think a 10 year old should be a problem!

        GCG

  33. Observations:
    My efforts thus far were not worth the cold.
    I noticed that failure leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
    My gut feeling is that no one will find the chest this year.

    -Randawg.

    • It’s all good Randawg…a shot of Pepto and a swig of Listerine will fix you right up! Keep on truckin’….

  34. How much would Mr. Fenn reveal in a scrapbook?

    There are 186 scrapbooks (plus some decimal points and missing SB #32). All of them are entertaining and worth the read, but some of them seem to whisper hints (to some of us).

    Forrest said there are some hints in the book.
    But has he ever said there are hints in the scrapbooks?
    Why are some of the scrapbooks so (seemingly) cryptic? For example:

    SB 107
    https://dalneitzel.com/2014/11/12/scrapbook-one-hundred-seven/

    SB 126
    https://dalneitzel.com/2015/01/21/scrapbook-one-hundred-six/

    And many more…

    He says he’s “ambivalent” about someone finding the treasure, but would he include hints in the scrapbooks if he actually wants someone to find the chest before he departs this vale?

    Or are we just desperately grasping at every word, every photoshopped image or stick figure, hoping that we can make some subliminal connection with Mr Fenn’s wordmsmithing?

    If you have a favorite scrapbook (with super secret subliminal hints) share it here!

    I’m just rambling…thanks for reading 🙂

    • If Fenn really was ambivalent, he would never have said anything else past, read the poem.

      • Kira – I am in 100% agreement.

        But I will admit that I am asking because one of the scrapbooks is such a blatant clue (to me), that it has obliterated my solve.

        • I believe he showed where the spot is near the picture of him fishing.

          He is having fun taunting, and thats ok.

          • A line from the poem obliterated your solve?
            You might want to open the garage door next time before warming up the car. 😉

          • Ha! Sorry. To clarify, a scrapbook obliterated my clue for “Heavy loads and water high”

            Sidenote: I’m returning in July for my third BOTG trip in YNP.

        • If your solve has been obliterated, it probably wasn’t a very
          good one. If you no longer largely value it, you should show it
          to some friends (without telling them it’s obliterated) and ask
          them to point out to you any weaknesses in it that they see.

          All IMO. Good luck.

    • I like SB50, SB116, SB166 and SB174 to name a few.
      SB107 is a good one.
      (I think Dal may have photoshopped the pic on SB126;
      Do you also like SB126.1?)

      • 126.1 looks like a hodgepodge of user-generated content.

        But I like 126 and I’ll go back and revisit the ones you listed above.

        The SB that obliterated my solve is none of these. Only hint: it’s under 100.

    • Forrest gives out hints in almost everything he says or writes….a lot are almost worthless, sending you in a million different directions, but some are like gold. If you are on the right track you will recognize most of the hints for what they are. How you get on the right track is the secret. Good Luck to All Searchers! Ken in Georgia BTW, there sure is a lot of Ken’s hunting the chest.

      • Welcome Ken in Georgia;

        So, how does one separate the wheat from the chaff? What is a “good” hint, as compared to a “Not so good hint”? So, how does one “get on the right track”? Yes, there are a lot of Kens, some have been here quite a while – Take the time to get to know them. Some are pretty savvy – JMO – JDA

        • JDA, That would be telling. If you have figured out/or guessed the beginning of the Chase, it is possible to recognize what most of the hints are, and how important they probably are. The low grade hints are useful if you are very, very, smart, which I’m not. I shouldn’t have said they are worthless….SORRY FORREST! I’ve been around awhile. I chime in every now and then on this blog. Made it to the last Fennboree. Have fun,
          Ken

          • Ken from Georgia,
            If you are the “Ken” that I sat and talked with at Fennboree I just want to say “thank you” for the great conversations. I really enjoyed your company… I hope everything’s going good for you.
            Have a great day my friend… until next time… see ya

    • Allen—-

      My favorite is SB 146. Forrest did not include it in “Once Upon A While” though, so it may not have any important clues in it. I like it though because it contains a poem, several different subjects, 3 ducks, and also a video at the end. It’s a lot of SB for the money. lol.

    • As a teenager, I read every single Agatha Christie book. A line that Hercule Poirot says in Murder on the Orient Express is: “There are too many clues.” That line is one of my mantras in this search — it gives me a critical eye when examining anything I believe might be a hint or a nudge from Forrest.

      I think anyone spending too much time ciphering through scrapbooks and blogs is wasting their time. It is distracting, if not an exact quote with a cite from Forrest himself it can contain false information, and it leads to the “too many clues” syndrome.

      I have a solve in place I plan to act on later this year. In the meantime, I entertain myself reading all the chatter. Sometimes, I come across a piece of info that could be construed as “Aha! This confirms my solve.” But sometimes just the opposite happens, and it can cause doubt. So what is truth? And at what point do you have enough faith in your own solve to go BOTG?

      My favorite scrapbook is the one where Skippy blows himself up and Forrest meets Peggy.

  35. I’m visiting beautiful downtown Santa Fe NM today.
    Has anyone else noticed that the speed limit on the busiest street in town is a blistering 35mph?
    And the Arby’s restaurant has no driveway? Well there is one but it’s exit only. You actually have to use Little Ceasar’s driveway next door if you’re hankering for roast beef.
    I kept missing the driveway so after 3 laps I went to Burrito Spot.

  36. Hi I haven’t posted in a while because I didnt feel i had anything fresh to add. PLEASE note I mean NO disrespect to anyone. the terms I am going to use are ones my dad used when I was growing up.
    Old timers, geezers, & 10 yr olds VS tender foots.
    I had decided not to search any more because our search area is a little difficult to reach. We weren’t sure an 89 yr could did it much less a ten yr old.
    Something been pushing me to watch the movie Treasure of the Sierra Madre with Humphrey Bogart.
    Those not familiar with the plot its about 3 men who go prospecting for gold up in the mountains. Bogarts character jokes about having to carry the old guy up the mountains. Then he realises the old guy is “part goat”. Every evening when they make camp the younger men are dead but the old timer geezer could hike another 20 miles without getting out of breath.
    That the point I am making. Our dear Mr. Finn is an old time geezer & he was at the time of hiding TC probably still very active.
    S9 when he said don’t go where an old man couldn’t go he might not mean what I thought it meant. In 1996 we took my two boys age 12 & 14 to Mount Capulin in northern New Mexico. The rim trail of the old volcano is a mile & the hike down into the cauldron is 0.2 miles straight down & then 0.2 miles back up. Those before they got bored those two boys walked, hiked, skipped, & ran the rim then down & up the cauldron three times before hubby & i walked rim once.
    Point is if I was a better fit 60 yr old I would be ok & definitely if I was a 10 yr old we could do it.
    I guess what I am saying is I think location is a little tough to hike but not real hard.
    8 don’t think Mr. Finn was miss leading but 8 do believe I forgot to remember he is an old time geezer who is a lot tougher than we are who had the energy of a yr old boy .

    We are increasing our work out to be in better shape in the words of an old geezer hubby & i are soft around the middle. And some would say the head too lol.

    • Wildbirder

      I will be up there this year because Raton is no place for the meek.

      Lugnutz

  37. Training for a hike is good. Please also remember that the air is kinda thin in the Rockies.

    All IMO.

  38. Hey everyone, just a quick question, specifically for those that don’t live close to the search area… at what point do you pull the trigger and pony up the money to put boots on the ground?

    Last year, I made my first trip from Ohio to search. I thought at the time that I had a pretty good idea where the chest was. Now, I can see just how wrong I was! I was pretty foolish to spend the money for airfare, car rental, and room and board for a few days.

    Now I find myself in a similar situation… the only difference is, I am aware that a hasty trip is just wasting money. I’ve done a ton more research and I feel that I’ve pretty much have it narrowed down to a point. I’m very secure in my solution, however, there is always that chance I’m wrong… so I’m struggling with throwing caution to the wind and taking another stab at it.

    I know that I may not have the correct solution… but this is the best I can muster. If I were to take this chance and put BOTG, it would most likely be my last trip.

    Anyone have any input, thoughts or comments?

    Thanks in advance… stay safe everyone!

    TimM

    • Tim M;

      ” there is always that chance I’m wrong… ” BUT ” there is always that chance I’m right… ” I know that for some, myself included, money is tight, and that to spend that money chasing a dream may seem foolish for some, BUT some have never had a dream to chase after. How lucky you are to have that dream you can chase.

      Stay at home, and some day you will be sayin’ “Darn, if only I had taken the chance – but alas, I will never know! How sad!

      If you feel you have a good solve – test it in every way you know how. Be your own worst critic. If it holds – make your plans.

      P.S. Make sure your plane reservations are refundable though. Forrest said he had a gut feeling it will be found. Make your plans for July or August, If it is found first, get your refund back – If not, enjoy your trip.

      Just the suggestions of an old fart who has no regrets – JDA

    • If money is tight you could also see if anyone is willing to check your search area for you.

    • TimM,
      I don’t know many who don’t worry about funds for many event or reasoning on some level.
      That said; I suggest you ask yourself why you are going in the first place?
      If the first thing that pops in your head is fame and fortune, thoughts of early retirement, help pay outstanding bills, and/or worry about borrowing from Peter to pay Paul on a hope, or any other reason, just to find a chest and its contents… I think you’re missing the whole point of the challenge.
      The box is only a lure, the find/recovery is secondary; to the thought of the experience. When the time is right and affordable… go and enjoy. Don’t worry about jumping the gun and ponder about, shoulda coulda woulda.

      You said ~’ I’m very secure in my solution, however, there is always that chance I’m wrong..’
      I’ll remind you of fenn’s comment; If you don’t have the first clue nailed down, stay home. This leads to the second question you should ask yourself… Does the first clue provide you with a full walk through of ‘clue’s references’ or are you still struggling with a few later clues?

      I think this is important, imo. We know many have deciphered the first two clues, been in site and still [ by fenn’s account ] did not know they did so.

      Basically… do you have that feeling of; “What took me so long?”
      If you can’t honestly answer that, through your solution… don’t go.
      That is, IF you’re really looking for a logical and reasonable reply for your inquiry… or just wanting to hear others to say… go for it.

    • ” Every man is the architect of his own fortune.”
      My sentiments mirror those presented by Seeker…my actions do not always follow those parameters.

    • My sentiments are the same as JDA after AL this is The Thrill of the Chase.
      WDOR

    • Thanks everyone! When I got back from my trip last year I told my friends at work why I had gone. Every one of them thought it was cool that I got to experience it… they said I could tell my grandkids that I went on a treasure hunt, and how many other people can say that?

      JDA – you’re exactly right! I am lucky to have played a part in this dream!

      Morecowbell – I thought of that but I have trouble telling anyone my solve. I feel it’s that good. Not that I wouldn’t trust anyone. Does that make sense?

      Seeker – Of course the idea of the fortune plays a part but the main thing for me has always been about solving the poem. I feel that I am locked in a battle of wits with a noble adversary and I want to solve the poem more than anything. I’d be lying if I haven’t thought about the monetary value but that’s not what got me started or kept me interested.

      I will say this about my solution… I have every clue nailed down and I used nearly every word! The path is clear and laid out from beginning to end.

      I do have that feeling of “what took me so long” and because of that feeling, I won’t ask anyone to search for me. I feel that if I tell anyone how I got to my understanding of the poem, they would immediately figure it out too. I hope that makes sense…

      Thanks again, everyone. You all have put things in perspective. How can I not go? Who else can say they’ve chased their dreams.

      TimM

      • TimW,
        Just a curious question… don’t tell me where your wwwh is, But can you say what your wwwh refers to.
        Silly examples; Bridge over troubles waters, Meeting Across the river, Cold as ice.

      • Seeker,

        I can tell you that it’s a river but I can’t tell you why it fits the wwwh clue. If I told you that, my whole ball of string would unravel.

        I know that’s not much to chew on but I can’t give any more.

        TimM

    • Tim M,

      I live in Scotland and I am making my first ever trip to the Rockies in mid June all being well.

      It’s going to cost me a lot of money for an 8 day trip, flights, accommodation and car hire.

      I believe that my solve is 100% sound, however how many people have said the exact same thing.

      You only live once and sometimes you have to take a chance in life.

      However I will say this, unless you have got a solid solve and you have no doubts go for it.

      However if you have got any doubts, then my advice is don’t do it.

      Remember what Forrest has said about his gut feeling.

      Good luck to you with whatever you decide.

      Ronnie the Scot

      • Thanks Ronnie!

        I wish you good luck in your search and I hope you enjoy your time in the States! Be safe!!

        TimM

      • Hi Ronnie may see you out there this June are you goin to have a kilt on so i can tell who you are?⚔Clint

    • Tim, if you haven’t read TTOTC a bunch of times, you won’t find the TC.

      If you can’t recite the poem from memory, you won’t find the TC.

      If you haven’t looked up “halt” in the dictionary, you won’t find the TC.

      If you haven’t seen dozens of hints in the SBs (on this blog), you won’t find the TC.

      If you don’t have the “word that is key” narrowed down to a list of about
      5 words, you won’t find the TC.

      But if you want a nice “vacation”, please go anyway. It’s supposed to be
      fun. I also suggest you research/prepare for staying safe, and don’t hike
      alone. Good luck to you.

      Please feel free to question what I’ve said.

      The above is my opinion.

      • Tighterfocus,

        I own and have read the book alot.

        I can recite the poem from memory.

        I know what the word ‘halt’ means.

        I’ve read the Subs.

        I have my word that is key.

        Finally, I’ve been following the chase for 4 years. I’m not someone that just walked on the stage. I just choose to refrain from commenting very much on the blogs.

        I’ve done a ton of research and I think that I have just as good a chance to finding the chest as anyone.

        One of the best feelings in the world to me is doing something that others don’t think I’m capable of and me proving them wrong. I’m not saying I know where the chest is,… but I am going to give it my best.

        Good day to you…

        Stay safe. Happy hunting.

        TimM

        • TimM
          What you said here [this post] is different than your question about funding worries. As ken implied … it one thing to be your own man and do has you feel, and another to not listen/ignore to those parameters of logic… financially.

          Don’t get me wrong… I’d say go! Go ahead and enjoy the challenge and exploring… but if it’s a financial dent in the wallet, maybe hold off, instead of being frustrated and lose all interest if things don’t work out.
          Ya really have to simply ask yourself… what are your main priorities at this time?
          Like you said, you’ve been around for a while, if so, you heard of quite a few get into financial problems, problems with family, and throw pity parties claiming everything else, was someone else fault, and not their own. { not say you will, but you seen how over confidence can be a kick in the ass }

        • Seeker,

          I understand completely. I guess I’m trying to justify in my own mind spending the money for the trip.

          I certainly wouldn’t risk putting my life or financial well being in jeopardy by going treasure hunting.

          I was just wondering what people use as a gauge to determine their time to go looking.

          And I understand about overconfidence… I had that ailment last year. I’m not trying to sound overconfident now, in reality, I have a good feeling about it but I know what the odds are.

          I appreciate everyone’s response. that’s what I like about most people on this blog… everyone looks out for one another and cares.

          TimM

        • Seeker,

          One more thing that can explain my internal dilemma…

          Whenever I purchase something I try to do as much research on the product before I buy it. I want to be frugal but I also want the best bang for my buck, so to speak. If I have to spend a little more for higher quality, I will.

          In the case of treasure hunting, there is nothing to test my research against. I have a hard time wrapping my head around not knowing if it is a good deal or not. Will I be getting my money’s worth?

          That’s my struggle. Does that make sense?

          TimM

          • TimM,

            Why do not you share the methods you used to get to your solution.

            You do not have to say where you found places.

            Only “how” did you get to them. And from there see the opinions of the researchers.

            Suddenly you’re using something that has already been tested and so have more foundation.

            This can help you be more confident in your findings.

            IDK – IMO

          • McB;

            For someone who signs his posts “IDK” you are asking a lot of a fellow searcher don’t you think?

            Are you willing to do the same thing that you ask McB to do?

            “Why do not you share the methods you used to get to your solution.”? Seems fair to me. JDA

          • JDA, TimM, all

            I used the “everyone” ideas on the blog here that I found applicable.

            Including your ideas JDA.

            The only thing I did differently was:

            WWWH is not water. That’s why it took me a while to find it.

            Remember when I asked you if anyone had ever connected WWWH with something other than water? No is water…

            From this I found “all other clues”.

            I have no doubts. No uncertainties.

            Where did I find my WWWH ??

            I can say:

            There are “8” WWWH in RMs.

            But only in “ONE” place I have “all” the other clues together “without forcing” absolutely nothing. It’s like cake recipe.

            And still following “all” the tips of FF, “errors” of researchers and other lines of FF.

            TIP: My WWWH solution included a “language” that Forrest probably uses.

            “But there’s no English translation.”

            I may be wrong then: IDK – IMO

            Understood??

          • Right, Tim… it not the same as buy a set of tires you need, at 400 $ but if you get better quality tires and pay 600 that should last twice as long saving you money in the long run… tread life, mount and balance etc etc. The compare a trip that is based on a hope, no matter how hopeful it may seem.

            We are only talking about funds, right? [ your good deal or not, idea ]… a solve means notta.

            I mean, would you spend the same mount of time away and money, just to go on vacation at this time and date-?- if you never heard of this challenge?

          • Seeker,

            I go on vacations like that all the time. And that may be what this next trip will be. If that’s the case, so be it.

            TimM

          • McB;

            No one as yet, has found the treasure, so I can not say that you are3 wrong – nor can I say that you are correct in your belief that wwwh is not associated with water.

            I believe Forrest tells the truth. If he says “where warm WATERS halt ” – I believe him.there is water associated with this site – you say no. So be it. Time shall tell who is correct. Good luck amigo – JDA

          • Tim,
            So many people have been confident in their solves and still found nothing. So I think that if you want to make sure you get a “good deal” in your search you should assume that you’ll come back without the treasure. Then decide if the trip is still worth it for the recreation, entertainment, and relaxation it will provide. My last trip was the first one where I could honestly say it might not have been worth it, but that trip was mainly done to satisfy my curiosity as to whether there was a way around some dead ends. So I’ll view it as the cost of staying in the game.

            One other possibility (tongue in cheek) is that you could write off your trip costs on your taxes as a gambling loss.

          • McB;

            I judge no one. Morals? what do morals have to do with the chase, or anything that I said? Language MAY be a problem here McB – In no way have I judged you. I disagree with your wwwh assessment – that is all.

            You asked that another searcher divulge his “Methods” – and for someone who sign his posts “I Don’t Know” – I thought it a bit brazen, but it has nothing to do with morals.

            Don’t be so touchy – Don’t be so quick to judge what another says – Just my advice – JDA

          • Well, here’s the thing…. when I go on a vacation it’s with my family. Those vacations are about going to the beach or renting a cabin. The whole family is involved in planning it. As far as the chase goes, they don’t discourage me from any of it but they aren’t involved either.

            Last year when I went to search I went alone. I tried to get some of my family to go but none could for one reason or another. When I got back home, I felt selfish for using the money that I did when I could have used it for the family to enjoy. I felt so guilty that I bought my grandkids a new playground set…

            I guess my concern is not so much about spending the money but more about what could I have used it for to benefit all of us. I’m not wealthy by any means but I do have some disposable money so this trip won’t be a problem but the question is, will I feel guilty about going?

            That’s why I asked the question in the first place… I felt that maybe you folks would let me know your thought process on it, it would make it easier for me.

            Does that make sense?

            TimM

          • Sorry McB;

            Your last post means absolutely nothing to me – I do not understand what you are trying to say – sorry.

            Let’s just say we do not understand each other, and let it end – Good luck in your search – JDA

          • I would find someone you trust TimM and have them look for you. You would feel less guilty that way by not spending the money. There are plenty of trustworthy people who would do it for nothing (imo lol).

          • Hi TimM,

            I say do what’s in your heart based upon your circumstances.

            Covert One

        • Tim, how did you get around this statement:
          You have said to read the poem and read TTOTC to help solve for the 9 clues. We all know there are many options to choose from regarding, Brown, hoB, wwh,and blaze hinted at in the book. My question is, “In the book, do you also, in a more subtle way, tell which is the correct answer to one or all of the above?” ~BW
           No I don’t madam, sorry. f

          If your wwwh is so important to your solve, how did you solve for it when the info isn’t out there to solve?

          You also said:
          I have every clue nailed down and I used nearly every word!

          How do you get around this statement:
          F, in 500 years all a person has is the poem, and no back story: they don’t know “in the rocky mountains north of santa fe” or that there are 9 clues etc. Could a person reasonably just use the words in the poem and find your treasure chest? Thank you ~Nope
          Thank you Nope. Nope. f

          These are just two examples that you need to address. The first statement I can see you getting by if you’ve had BotG, but is hoB a clue for you? When the info isn’t out there, how do you know what a clue is or is not?

          The second question is a tough one. How did you use the words in the poem when the words will not lead to the chest?

          Are you forcing your answers to these questions or do you just ignore these comments by Fenn, knowing that not every comment means anything?

          If you are satisfied with your answers, then have at it. I would just say the same thing JDA mentioned, to be your own worse critic. Truth to yourself may save money not needing to be spent.

          Lastly:
          If a person reads the poem over and over…and are able to decipher the first few clues in the poem, they can find the treasure chest.

          Did you decipher the first few clues or solve them? There is a difference, especially when considering the first question above. Either way, good luck to you.

          • Charlie,

            Let me see if I can answer the questions you’ve asked. I’m typing on my phone so forgive me for misspellings, etc… and I can’t copy and paste your questions to make it easy to understand. Sorry…

            The following is all opinions of mine…

            When f wrote the poem, I don’t believe that he picked a spot on a map and then developed a poem to lead someone to that place. I think that he already had some sort of framework to go by. I think when Forrest made the comment (paraphrased) ‘what surprises me is that no one to my knowledge has considered one important aspect of the winning solve’ he was referring to that framework. Has anyone figured out what he was talking about? I thought about just that aspect for 2 months and I discovered something. Obviously, I can’t say what that is, but once I found that things started to fall in to place. What initially tied this information to the poem was one word. Was it the key word that he mentioned? Who can say for sure?

            As for your question about my wwwh… I have no idea if it’s correct. Truth be told, I looked at the information I had and started tying other pieces of the poem to it. At that point I looked backwards in the information I had and found what I believe is wwwh.

            As for me saying that I have every clue nailed down, that was probably a bad choice of wording… I can’t say for sure that anything is nailed down. What I should have said is that I can account for 99% of the words in the poem and it all follows the framework that I mentioned above. I have never counted clues or tried to. It doesn’t matter to me how many there are… basically what I have is a line of items that match between the framework and poem. It goes in order and those points that match can be located on a map.

            As for your question about 500 years from now… if all anyone had in 500 years was the poem, they could look anywhere in the world unless the Rocky Moutains were specified. Also, f mentioned that the landscape would likely change in the next millennia and that alone would make it nearly impossible to find.

            I believe the information is out there to solve the poem, or most of it. f said that the last clue would have to be solved on site, well, if that is the only one that had to be solved by BOTG, then the others could be solved from home, right?

            I have not forced anything to fit the poem. Again, I think that the framework that he used matches the poem. The framework is mentioned in TTOTC in a round-about way. I don’t feel that the book offered much help to my solution… I’ve read it and I don’t think there are words in the book that specifically answer clues. That would be to easy.

            I hope I’ve answered your questions, if not, maybe I’m not understanding it.

            Stay safe.

            TimM

          • Tim ~’’ he was referring to that framework. Has anyone figured out what he was talking about?’

            Tim, while you can’t/don’t want to say exactly… defined framework for me. Are you talking about structure of the poem? The landscape of the location? The stories? How the poem may revolve around a word?
            I would think that his comment of “… important possibility…” would refer to something specific rather than a general concept.

            And lets, just for fun, jump to fenn’s comment about the last clue… He also was ask if the clues can be solved at home… “All of them, in theory, but not in practice…” Is it obvious to do that, complete a solve, one must be on site.

            If all the clues can be deciphered, In theory, Would that not include the last clue? I would think we need to understand how both comments [ and other comments ] ring true to each other. I mean, it cant be one way or the other, right? Otherwise, that would make one statement false.

            So now we have fenn saying he followed the clues ‘when he hid the chest’… shouldn’t we ask why he did so? Especially when he didn’t need a map to write the poem/create the clues [ he did it from memory of the location ] Yet it seem that he implied the idea to “complete” he needed to follow the clues.
            Doesn’t that raise an eyebrow that this process of all the clues is not a simple stomping from point to point or just walk to the blaze location, But more work needs to be done, things need to be seen, locations need to be utilized in some shape or form? {observing and planning}

            Which brings me to the idea that: In 3009 {Q&A} movement of the land would surely have an impact on the clues. {lets skip the idea of major impact such as YS popping its cork} But natural movement of the mountains over a 1000 years… How would that affect the clues -?- especially IF they are supposed to be “precisely” followed?

            For fenn to say he followed the clues, in the idea of ‘completing’ the poem’s task… don’t we need to follow them exactly has he would have had to as well… almost eliminating the thought of skipping over clue’s location and head to a later clue or the blaze?

            So this bring me full circle to the idea of the important possibility. Does your framework idea answer all the above in the positives?
            a check an balance idea;
            ~We need to follow the clue when physically going to the chest. [regardless of stomping or understanding or any other method]
            ~Have the clues ‘references’ deciphered prior.
            ~Understand how movement of the land may interfere with clue’s references, making it more difficult to find the chest [by association ~ follow the clues as they stand today in regards to how the poem works]

            The AFT comments may not help with the clues, but give more of the idea of how they unfold IF we can keep those ATF comment true to each other.
            If, for example; your solve has you walking right to the last clue… skipping other clues… something might be wrong. [ that is a general comment, not that your solve does that, or you implied it ]

          • Seeker,

            I knew my post would open a can of worms…

            The framework that I was referring to is something that he used to build his poem on. I’m not going to say what I believe it is. I will say that it is specific and not just a general idea.

            I never said anything about skipping clues or just going to the blaze (or the last clue, whatever that is). I believe you need to follow the clues in order, just as f stated. If you want to ask him why he followed the clues, go ahead. And he said he didn’t need a map, ok… many people don’t need maps when they are going somewhere. I never said that he was unfamiliar with the location.

            I posted my thoughts and answered the questions I was asked the best I could without revealing too much. You are free to do whatever you like with what I’ve said, agree disagree, call me crazy, etc… it is all my opinion and it may very well be wrong.

            I’m not telling anyone they are wrong, I’m not being confrontational… I’m just posting an opinion. Do with it what you will.

            Happy hunting. Stay safe

            TimM

          • Seeker…It is good to toss ideas around to try to unravel the mysteries. That’s what happens here….however…the vast majority of the ATF are steeped in ambiguity and can/have be/been debated without coming to any concrete consensus. Fenn’s SAFETY comments have aided in ruling out certain ideas/areas…but beyond that…not so much. To lean to heavily on any one interpretation of ATF and mix with other ATF, is just stabbing/clawing blindly.
            One example would be the infamous “complete/completed” following the clues when he hid the treasure. What exactly do you think he was implying? And how do you come to the conclusions that determine what he meant? I am just curious…

          • Hi Ken;

            I am not Seeker, but here are my two cents worth:

            Forrest said, “* To answer some questions and save others from being asked, I did follow the clues in the poem when I hid the treasure chest, although I hid it before the poem was complete. (Completed?) f (posted 6/5/2107)

            Let’s skip the last part about the poem not yet being complete (completed?) and focus on the first part – he followed the clues when he hid the treasure chest.

            If Forrest didn’t need a map when he wrote the poem, he did it from memory, we can surmise that he was very familiar with the area, so why did he have to follow the steps in the poem?

            To me the answer is fairly simple, there is only one way in, and only one way out. For me, this means only one road in, and one road out to and from the parking place.

            What about after the parking place, you might ask? Again, I see only one trail in, and one trail out. I suspect that he had to get off of the main trail at some point, and go “in the mountains” for a short hike – but here again, I think that the one path in, one path out probably applies. This is why he had to follow the clues when he secreted the treasure chest.

            Forrest said, ““So I wrote a poem containing nine clues that if followed precisely, will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure.” f Following the clues PRECISELY to the very end – will lead to the end of his rainbow and the treasure.

            All we have to do is figure out where that rainbow is… 🙂 JDA

          • Ken,
            Your asking me to explain 8 years of ATF… LOL. I ready worked on a book, Ha! I don’t want to start another one now.
            You said; ‘the vast majority of the ATF are steeped in ambiguity and can/have be/been debated without coming to any concrete consensus.’

            I agree and totally disagree… The idea is not about one or a few ATFs, but a continuous flow of fenn’s direct comments. If you want to attempt to figure out that particular comment, most, if not almost all, the ATF’s need serious reviewing, and should have truth in all of them, even if they seem to conflict.

            But If I can attempt to keep this short; fenn needed to follow his own clues and not just walk to the chest hidey spot. IMO, to complete [completed?] the poem / task.
            He needed to be at or use the clues. In this case; follow means two things… physical points ‘and’ usable info. [not just stomping out clues]
            The Hide was a creation of fenn. It was created by the clue references. To complete the poem, he need to do exactly as ‘we’ are being told to do.
            Many want to think the special place fenn talks about is the hidey spot… I think fenns special place is the location of all the clues [regardless of size of that area]
            So, if correct, The “path” fenn talks about must be [ for examples only; paced out, triangulated, observed in some manner, viewed from a point or different points… whatever ideas you can thing of ] To finalize [ complete the blueprint by building off it ] the task of full completed solve.

            I think fenn meant this line of thinking when he mentions “general solve” vs. “solve”
            We can supposedly solve the clue’s “references” at home, but not in practice… to find the chest.
            Well, that sounds like exactly what he needed to do… create the clues at home, utilize them in the manner he created them, and located a spot to ‘simply hide’ the chest. LOL… buried vs. hidden… how the hiding of the chest was accomplished is of no importance… what is important is understanding the reasoning of why he ‘followed’ the clues.

            With that said… Do you think fenn made extra trips to the location of the clues while creating the poem?… I think he didn’t have to… he just needed to make one trip to the location, then used his own poem to locate a hidey spot, he created from the clues.
            Basically saying the clues don’t lead to his special location… they are within that location, his rainbow.

            End of commentary… and full of it. Opinions, I mean.

          • Seeker;

            Your last line really caught my attention: “Basically saying the clues don’t lead to his special location… they are within that location, his rainbow.”

            I have often pondered Forrest’s “End of my rainbow” statement. I had found a “Rainbow” fairly close to where I think Forrest hid, buried or secreted Indulgence – But it was over 300 yards away – This bothered me. Your idea of the rainbow being a part of the actual “hidey” location is intriguing. Using SB’s and ATF comments and posts, I thought I knew what the final location would look like – Your comment has caused me to slightly modify that picture – THANKS – JDA

          • Seeker,

            Just a few quick questions,

            Can you ‘follow’ along in a book?

            Can you ‘follow’ directions?

            Can you ‘follow’ a recipe?

            Just because you follow something, even following precisely, doesn’t mean you have to be moving.

            IMO

            TimM

          • Tim,
            Preaching to the Choir…

            JDA,
            Nope, Nope. That is not what I said;
            The hide and the clues are within fenn’s rainbow, idea.
            The idea is, the hide was only located by fenn when he created the clues that are within his special place {The actual 10″ sq piece of land means nothing} In theory, the clues designed made the hidey spot ‘available’.

            The technique and placement of the chest, revolves only by where the clues lead fenn in his special place. { although I’m sure he had that figured/planned out beforehand }

            Rainbow = special place… So technically, the warning comment means we should know the location ~AKA rainbow~ first and foremost. Then the clues lead to the chest.

            “In there” ~ location ~ rainbow ~ special place. Not the hide.

            Theoretically.

          • Seeker;

            Thanks for your clarification of your thoughts. I now see what you are saying – Thanks – JDA

          • Hi TimM: just tossing in my opinions to some of the things you wrote in your long reply to Charlie last night.

            “When f wrote the poem, I don’t believe that he picked a spot on a map and then developed a poem to lead someone to that place. I think that he already had some sort of framework to go by.”

            I think it’s clear from Forrest’s comments that he had a very precise spot in mind for the chest — that he was going to make it work no matter what. I agree that he didn’t start with a map, put his finger down on it and select a spot for which he could develop clues that would navigate a searcher to it. Being familiar with the area, he wouldn’t need a map at all to get there.

            But most of us are completely unfamiliar with the area where he hid the chest, so we’re absolutely going to need a map to get there. Forrest’s poem *is* that map, and like any map you need to follow directions precisely and in the proper order, or you will not reach your destination.

            “As for your question about my wwwh… I have no idea if it’s correct.”

            Uh oh, Tim — that’s not a good sign. You really have to have that spot nailed down, IMO (and Forrest’s). When you have the right WWWH, your reaction should be “Of course! What took me so long to figure it out?”

            “Truth be told, I looked at the information I had and started tying other pieces of the poem to it. At that point I looked backwards in the information I had and found what I believe is wwwh.”

            It’s theoretically possible to get lucky and backtrack to Forrest’s WWWH from later clues, but I think Forrest believes that’s rather unlikely. Too many blazes, too many homes of Brown, too many canyons, and no way to reliably choose among them. WWWH, IMO, is the only clue that’s unique.

            “As for your question about 500 years from now… if all anyone had in 500 years was the poem, they could look anywhere in the world unless the Rocky Mountains were specified.”

            Agreed. Absent the knowledge that the poem is describing a hiding place in the U.S. Rocky Mountains, WWWH may no longer be a unique place, thus making it impossible to “nail down.”

            “I believe the information is out there to solve the poem, or most of it. f said that the last clue would have to be solved on site, well, if that is the only one that had to be solved by BOTG, then the others could be solved from home, right?”

            I concur. I would even add that in my opinion if you can’t solve most of the clues from home, then you are not going to magically be able to solve them on site.

            “I don’t feel that the book offered much help to my solution… I’ve read it and I don’t think there are words in the book that specifically answer clues. That would be to easy.”

            This is unfortunately another troubling sign, IMO. If you have the correct WWWH, it will be because you figured out Forrest’s “word that is key.” And if you’ve figured out that word, you should have no problem spotting some very good hints for it in TTOTC, TFTW and OUAW.

            I certainly don’t expect (or even want!) my opinions to in any way dissuade you from investigating your solution, and I’m sure they won’t. You’ve obviously put a lot of time into it, and it’s the thrill of the chase that matters far more than the thrill of the find. You seem to have a healthy attitude about the Chase — most importantly, tempered expectations about the probability of success. That mindset is what’s required to make adjustments and/or completely start anew if need be.

          • JDA…The scenario you posted to my comment could be close…and then again…could be totally wrong. You also totally ignored/discounted the last part of the ATF in your understanding of it. Without having a grasp of what exactly it means…none of it matters really. Read on.
            Seeker~Uh yes, no…um. You should go into politics, seriously man. I totally (not really) forgot what I asked you before the end of your post. I see where you are coming from(respect it) and expected you to say pretty much what you did. My original point was really about the [general] idea of forming ANY sort of understanding of the ATF at all while deciphering the clues in the poem. I think the clues and their meaning/s are paramount to the correct solution within the “big picture” of the poem. Then and only then…the “truth” within the ATF becomes apparent. I think putting any stock into what the ATF means beforehand is asking for a miracle at best. Remember what Fenn had to say about the “truth” ?
            I’m through with theorizing and keeping the ATF in line with each other…too much info…because I think they are only useful after the fact. Nail down clue 1…and move forward and so on. And you know something? I think the “Solver” could by- pass some of the poem and get to the hide. Very risky…and possibly foolish…but I believe it is in the realm of “possible”. Call me crazy…because I am. I also think the special, rainbowy spot might not be all twinkly in the sense some are expecting. This “special place” may just be a simple memory where “Everything” made sense to Fenn all at once.
            My opinion…he wrote the poem…then hid the chest…before the poem was complete/completed.

          • Hi Ken;

            Yes, I did not comment on the last part of the quote – I was not discounting it, I just didn’t want to take the time or space for an answer. I now have a bit more time.

            I agree with what you said: “My opinion…he wrote the poem…then hid the chest…before the poem was complete/completed.” Forrest had worked on the poem for over 15 years – off-and-on. It was almost complete (completed?) – he hid the chest – went back home and put the last and final touches on the poem and published it. Were the last and final touches based on the actual “hide” ? I guess only Forrest can answer that.

            Did he swap the positions of a couple of stanza’s?
            Who knows what those final changes involved. What-ever they were, he “Must have done something right”. Here we are – almost nine years later discussing his masterpiece. “NICE WORK FORREST”!!! Just misin’ – JDA

          • Forrest started the poem, went and buried the treasure, added an “s” to it and called it complete.

          • Ken ~’Seeker~Uh yes, no…um. You should go into politics’

            Geezzzz Bud, what did I ever do to you to call me a politician?!? It hurts man, it just hurts…

            Oh Crap! I almost forgot… IMO… { politically correctness }

          • IMO…Mr f hid the chest and then changed the poem. I believe the original poem said something like…
            Take the chest and leave my bones.
            Not that it matters much as we still have not found it.

          • so why did he have to follow the steps in the poem?

            To me the answer is fairly simple, there is only one way in, and only one way out. For me, this means only one road in, and one road out to and from the parking place.

            What about after the parking place, you might ask? Again, I see only one trail in, and one trail out. I suspect that he had to get off of the main trail at some point, and go “in the mountains” for a short hike – but here again, I think that the one path in, one path out probably applies. This is why he had to follow the clues when he secreted the treasure chest.

            JDA, have you changed your thinking? What you are implying is exactly what I believe, one way in one way out. If he followed the clues, then how did he make two trips in one afternoon? (yes, this again). Look, you are saying it, he followed all the clues, that means 1 thru 9. But yet, he has said he would not go down a canyon, back up, then down again in one day. So, how did he follow the clues like you say in one day? Two trips in the afternoon? It’s impossible the way you are describing. You are now saying what I was trying to tell you a while back.
            He cannot follow all the clues if he made two trips in one afternoon.
            This is why I ask if you’ve changed your view. I believe that you park your car at the first clue, then walk from there. This would be following all the clues, one way in one way out. Impossible to do the two trips in one afternoon, just can’t.
            Either that or you just tripped yourself up and worded incorrectly. It’s no biggie, but it is a way to show how his ATF’s work together to give a searcher a good “checks and balance” system. (I still like that analogy, Seeker):).

            I see where TimM is going with his explanation. This “framework” he mentions is more of a “done by design” way of thinking. That what he has found is not something he would just come up with, not something he would think of, but something he found that is not found in typical writings, sentence structures, word usages, etc…It is something that is done by design, in which case, something that needs to be researched and proven or disproven, but something that helps answer the questions he has for the chase to satisfy his curiosity. It’s basically what we are all looking for in our solves. The realization that what you have found has no explanation except that it was done by design. (Is that close TimM)?
            The ATF’S are a good reference to prove if what a searcher sees is something that they can only describe as design. They can prove an inconsistency in a solve. Which would negate a “done by design” thought. The ATF’S should be used and used together if need be to help someone realize if they just have a bunch of coincidences or if they are onto something. Like Seeker said, a checks and balance system. If you don’t have it, you only have a general solve, which we all had when we were only a week into this. When we thought we were smart and that this wouldn’t take too long.
            If you can find the “framework”, architecture, building blocks of the poem, and see the design f had to use to create this whole thing, IMO, you are well on your way.
            Lol, just can’t figure out how you got the same exact solve I have. Seeker found the rainbow and doesn’t even know it. :), Your contributions will not be forgotten…

          • Seeker,
            A rainbow is a rainbow unless it’s f’s rainbow. What makes it his rainbow is the Ultimate question.

          • Charlie,

            No, I don’t think you’re close to understanding what I’m referring to. It has nothing to do with the structure of the poem, how it’s written or word usages.

            I don’t know how else to explain it without giving something away…

            Zaphod,

            Regarding your ‘good signs and bad signs’.. f said that the person that finds the chest won’t be certain about wwwh until after they found it… that’s why I’m not certain if I’m right..

            Also, f said that there are subtle hints in the book but they were not placed there to aid the searchers… there are hints but I don’t feel that they are imperative to search or find them to locate the chest.

            IMO as usual…

            TimM

          • Zap,

            I was thinking about what you said about nailing down wwwh… well, if it is what I think it is, there’s no wonder why so many people have had trouble figuring it out.

            TimM

        • TimM, “just as good a chance” isn’t good enough to find the TC.
          But I am impressed with what you said. Good luck to you.

          • Lugnutz,

            I don’t know anything for sure…. I reserve the right to be wrong. Lol

            That said, if you mean the line in the poem “I can keep my secret where”, I think I know what the reference means.

            All just my opinion…

            TimM

      • tighterfocus- right on brother. and dont forget dumb luck…im loaded with that.

        i think.

      • Hi Tighterfocus: regarding your list of IFs to Tim:

        “Tim, if you haven’t read TTOTC a bunch of times, you won’t find the TC.”
        Agreed.

        “If you can’t recite the poem from memory, you won’t find the TC.”
        Agreed.

        “If you haven’t looked up “halt” in the dictionary, you won’t find the TC.”
        Disagree. The poem can be solved without ever cracking a dictionary, IMO. Dependence on unusual, obscure, archaic or discontinued word definitions falls under “specialized knowledge” as far as I’m concerned. Forrest’s words are “country spoken.”

        “If you haven’t seen dozens of hints in the SBs (on this blog), you won’t find the TC.”
        I probably agree. No one searcher is going to discover every hint that Forrest provided, and each searcher is very likely to find things he/she thinks are hints that are actually happenstance.

        “If you don’t have the “word that is key” narrowed down to a list of about 5 words, you won’t find the TC.”
        I’d be more restrictive. IMO, you have to have the one word, and know that it’s right.

        I’d add a few more IFs:

        If you don’t have TFTW, you have little chance of solving Forrest’s clues.

        If your solution does not provide the explanation for the difference between the 500-footers and the 200-footers, you aren’t going to find Indulgence.

        If you haven’t found hints in multiple illustrations in TTOTC, you aren’t looking hard enough.

        If you haven’t found the unintended clue in TFTW, you are unlikely to find the chest.

        All just my opinions; your mileage may vary.

    • TimW,

      Have read all the posts (yours and others) related to this post.
      Have the same internal dilemma. Have been reading and researching since 2010. Have been on 5 trips to my solve areas. Had “cognitive dissonance” after each trip. My wife has been on a search and is going on the next one…hopefully soon. We live in NC so it is not cheap to fly or drive, rent a car and hotel room to get to and stay in the Rockies.
      That being said we think, as every searcher, that our current solve is the one. We also realize that we may come up empty. We look at it as though we still get to see some of the most beautiful scenery on the planet so we are not failures but put the chase in perspective as part of our vacation.
      However, I do think about time which could have been spent with parents, other family members or just going to some other spot for our vacation….maybe Florida, Pennsylvania Dutch country, etc…you get the picture. It is a trade off and we make the chase as ancillary to our vacation plans. If we don’t go out west then we don’t fret about it but still look forward to getting out there for our search at a later date.
      As far as making the choice to go…..our searches have produced great information for our current solve….which required BOTG to get to this point. Without first hand visual knowledge of our search area we would not even try another search trip. The trips give us info to build upon to get closer to a realistic solve…at least in our minds, so this helps to make our decision to return. I’m sure I’ll still have cognitive dissonance if we don’t find the TC but this is just human nature and part of life.
      If I took the money and bought a motorcycle, I’m sure after the new wears off I’d have feelings of “wow, what a waste of money,I should not have bought it”. I’ve owned motorcycles so this is true. That being said, I’d rather see the west and have a little adventure, so it is worth the cost.

      • Tarheel,

        Thanks for the reply. That’s how I’m looking at it now. My wife and I have a week of vacation scheduled for the last week in May. I think we are going to use some of that week to go search around in my search area. I figure that even if I’m wrong we will still be able to enjoy the Rocky’s and take in some of the local sights.

        Good luck on your future searches! Stay safe

        TimM

        • TimW,

          Good luck to you and your wife…..stay safe as well.

          Tarheel Searcher

  39. Tim, I can understand your hesitation. I am in north central Kansas, so the expense of going to search isn’t nearly as costly, but it still hurts a bit. Only one person out of the hundreds or thousands that will actually put BOTG this season will find the treasure. As much as I enjoy rousing about finding the treasure, I know my odds are slim. If you have the correct solve, but do not pursue it, how foolish are you going to feel if you learn the treasure was found exactly where you wanted to search? IMO, it isn’t foolish to chase a dream. IMO, Forrest has inferred that it may take some time in the search area to see what you need to see and then connect the dots that you need to in order to find the treasure. Your first trip was a learning experience. This trip may be a learning experience as well. No harm in that.

    I think it is about perspective. If you view your search trip as a vacation with a planned activity of treasure hunting, and if you can enjoy your time searching while appreciating being out in nature, then it won’t matter whether you find the treasure and your trip isn’t a “waste” of time or money. It is no different than taking a vacation to some place like The Crater of Diamonds or some place you can gold pan. I say take the trip, and enjoy you regardless of the outcome. Happy Hunting.

    • Thanks KK,

      Last year I went alone and searched. I’ve been to the Rocky Mountains before as a child with my parents. This year, I am planning on taking my wife. She’ hasn’t been to the western states except for a trip to the Grand Canyon a few years ago. We took an Amtrak train, which was an awesome experience and something we always wanted to do.

      This trip would be a vacation too. I’ve been to the area before but my wife hasn’t. She will love the sights!

      TimM

      • What part of Ohio are you from Tim?
        We’re planning on heading west this summer from Cincinnati..

          • I’ve got a pretty solid solution myself but won’t move on it until the weather is guaranteed to cooperate….i would hate to travel that far only to get shut out by snow or rain…. which probably means late June at best …
            On a more positive note, I’ve got a gut feeling an Ohio boy is going to bring the chest home this summer!
            Or maybe it’s just that goetta I had for breakfast….
            Good luck and safe travels!!

          • Well, I would say I’m not crazy but some would argue that point.

            Have a good night

            TimM

          • Well all I can say is I hope your not a crazy Sheriff.

            We had a crazy sheriff on this site but he stepped in a cow patty and it froze.

            Now his frozen body is a waypoint for other chasers.

            Lugnutz

          • Hey!… I am, without a doubt, one of the biggest, kindest most cuddlyist Teddy bears on this site if not the entire http://WWW…just ask my mama….
            Besides…. Us strikingly handsome, all American, apple pie eating, Ohio boys… We look out for each other!
            I don’t care if he is from up in the northern hinterlands……….
            Besides, what kind of name is lugnutz? Doesn’t exactly inspire confidence 🙂

          • Lurker,

            now I’m getting scared…. that’s exactly what a “lurker” would say!! lol.

            Besides, If you look for me, good luck. Tim is not my first name… most people in law enforcement use an alias or anagram for social media and the like so the bad guys can’t follow.

            TimM

      • How exciting to travel by train- that is on my bucket list! I do think she will enjoy the Rockies. I don’t know which state you are heading to, but I can imagine all of them are breathtaking. I appreciate all the pictures people share from their trips, but I know a camera just doesn’t do nature justice. Enjoy your trip, and your hunting. I hope you share your experiences when you get back!

    • I agree with KK. View it as a vacation with a side adventure of treasure hunting. There are, apparently, quite a few of us that think we have solved the poem. And, those of us who have made a trip to search have so far come up empty. So, chances are slim. But not impossible.

      • Lol, JDA, you know it’s more than that. :).
        Especially since I’m probably 2-4 hours, you’ve got to at least double me. Lol, I could probably comment at 3:00 a.m. and you would immediately answer. Lol, who you kidding???

        • Well, you may be right. I was thinking on the high end (4 hrs) but who knows? I look – I watch TV, I look, I read, I look, I contemplate my navel, I look again – I guess it adds up. 🙂
          JDA

        • Yes, to try to silence me. Its all good though, place is a wasteland that lacks any substance. They will never find the treasure, they do not have what it takes.

          All IMO of course 😀

          • Revisionist history, you were rude and started name calling. Why dont you tell the truth.

    • I like that video and the principle behind it. I think about my motorcycle days!
      Many motorcycle accidents occur when “steering” into corners. It is correct to counter steer into a corner ever so slightly…so the concept makes sense.
      Bias is my take away. Thanks for putting this up again….

  40. I just returned from my 16th search uneventful. I usually drive home in high spirits and singing along with the radio but not this trip. This time I searched the last ‘grid’ in my search zone and I was seriously considering hanging up my boots. Unless I had some epiphany or something to keep me in the Chase.
    The last meal I had before leaving town to head for home was at good ol’ Panda Express.
    My cookie fortune was: “You Will Have Full Contentment By Summers End”.
    I guess you will all have to put up with me a little while longer!

    -Randawg.

    • Sorry that it did not turn out as you had hoped – DARN! GOOD fortune cookie though. Hang in there guy – epiphanies come at the darndist times – JDA

    • Rawdawg, After my last search I too stopped in at a Panda Express. I had my heart set on some Panda, but found out they don’t serve it. bummer. I am not sure of the names of what I was able to get, but it was very good. Ken in Georgia.

  41. Was thinking about the actual value of what we are all looking for. We have people that have written books, and with that 20,000 word autobiography in the chest, knowing that TTOTC has 28,800 words, the autobiography alone is another book. Would the finder of the chest post that autobiography for all to read, because that is one of the things all us searchers would like to read, or would the finder be better off being greedy and selling it as a book? How many would buy the book? $50 on 100,000 books is a nice pay day. It’s hard to sell sentimental valued items for what you may think it’s worth, I guess we will just have to see what I decide.:),jk.
    But serious, is a book deal in the works for the finder? Movie deal? who knows. If Seeker finds this thing, will he get a new spell checker? A lot of questions surrounds the finder.

    • Hmmm… good questions… I started to write about my chase right away… my book is now at 190 pages and 45k words, and I am half through my second trip of four in 17… well… I guess I’ll have to find it, or it will be the longest diary over the shortest possible period of time just for family members… 😉
      In case I am the lucky one, I will check back if Forrest agrees to post his autobiography, but if he agreed I’d post it…
      I was researching the value of the treasure, too, and found out that the biggest nuggets could be around 2-3 pounds each and can be worth 2-4 times the regular gold price… I do not know the real value of the coins or jewelry, but who wants to sell this treasure anyway and how?

      I’d be glad to secure it and wait for offers without any kind of pressure. My guess is the surrounding national attention (Editors, TV, Radio, Newspapers…) is a great breeding ground for selling a book and additional revenue. To evaluate this in advance is probably not possible… the sky is the limit… and the better it works out the better the chance that this fabulous treasure can remain in one piece, maybe even in a museum for all to see…

      Happy dreaming and hunting, y’all, and stay safe!

  42. I’m curious if anyone has given the thought about Potosi Spring area south of Harrison, MT and west of Norris MT?

    Potosi Spring is a hot spring, but is warm waters. My family would go there every summer to camp and swim in an obscure swimming pool. There used to be little sheds that had concrete tubs inside that were always full of water.

    The area you can see trees, sage brush, mountains etc. that I believe F spoke of. Warm waters do halt in natural small lakes. It seems like a good fit.

    • Just like winning the lottery. You will have a whole set of new problems to deal with and how to handle them.

  43. looks like given the snowpack it’s going to be a late start for searching

  44. During my holidays I read a wonderful book and found the language being as near to TTOTC as the whole setting. So I would like to recommend it to you guys:

    Butcher’s Crossing by John Williams
    ISBN 978-0-09-958967-9

    Lot’s of marvel gazes, meeks, drawing nighs, heavy loads and colds… I was amazed and inspired!

    Best, TLo

  45. ” Forget Not That The Earth Delights To Feel Your Bare Feet And The Winds Long To Dance In Your Hair” -kahlil gibran-

    Rub-a-dub-dub, oh what a magnificent tub. If I cant find that treasure, maybe I can at least find my britches hanging on that Juniper tree…or wait…was that a Pinyon?

  46. The chase has gone on for almost a decade now and I keep wondering, after all of the different ideas and methods used to interpret and solve, why hasn’t the TC been retrieved. There are many thousands of searchers who have looked but haven’t yet solved it or brought home the prize. So the real question is does it take a Major Paradigm Shift in thinking? The old saying “If you keep doing what you’ve been doing, you’ll keep getting what you’ve been getting” comes to mind.

    Expanding upon that basic thought, what if it takes reprogramming how we interpret and decipher the poem? Our view and perception of the world (specifically the poem) has built-in bias whether we believe that or not. Based upon FF’s gut feeling about this Summer, this might be the year – and the year to hit the Reset Button on our method of interpretation.

    Key points:

    •Knowledge does not equal Understanding
    •If you keep doing what you’ve been doing, you might keep getting what you’ve been getting
    •We interpret the world (specifically the poem) through a built-in bias whether we believe that or not
    •One’s experiences (bias) may prevent them from making a major paradigm shift which may be required to solve it

    Could you ride the bike in this video? If so, you might have a chance at solving it:

    http://viewpure.com/MFzDaBzBlL0?ref=bkmk

    • Good points CO. I firmly believe in experimenting with various methods to solving the poem. Since it has not been found yet maybe it will take a not so obvious methodology. We are told get back in the box but maybe we need to be at the edge of the box, hovering over the box, or in a new box. Who knows?

      • I think,

        All follow the same pattern of research.

        Do you remember what the FF said before opening your gallery?

        He went to the other galleries to see what they did wrong, and he did differently.

        You can not expect a different result by repeating the same formula again.

        The result will only be different if you can change the ingredients.

        In that case, review your interpretation of the clues.

    • It took Forrest 15 years to make the puzzle that is the poem, and he knew the rules and the answers from the start.

      I expect it should take somebody years to figure out the general method (like your backwards bike) and then years more to solve the puzzle (like riding that bike from Santa Fe to Yellowstone on the back roads without a map).

      Many people require a full reset, of course, because not everybody is using the same methodology; but other people just need to keep working at what their doing and take the project to completion.

      -Going further and trying harder usually improves the results, I think.

  47. Good Morning All,
    I have been bumming around the blogs for quite some time and rarely post anything.
    It appears to me (IMO) that the general consensus of searching has changed over the years from using the poem to using everything that Forrest has said as clues or hints to the solve.
    I have come up to bat and struck out many times in my search and possible solves, however, I have seen and experienced many things that I probably would not have if it were not for The Chase.
    My latest solve involves using the poem all on it’s own and following what I believe it is telling me to do, is it the correct solve? Maybe and then again maybe not.
    My question is; how many of those that read this are taking the approach of utilizing nothing more than the poem in their solve?

    Safe travels to all,
    wdor

    • My solve is exclusively based on the poem plus imagination plus the big picture!

      I am only using this forum and some of the hints to verify my solve and I am fully aware, that my simple suggestions would make me look some kind of stupid to others here… but I try to think like a child…

      I discovered the first couple of clues for my solve while I was BOTG for the first time. Since I am from Berlin, Germany, I feel like I would not have been able to find WWWH via GE nor maps without a very good portion of luck!

      Happy hunting!!! TLo

    • wdor
      I used only the poem for over a year.
      When I was close to my solve, I got on the blogs for fun.
      I continued to use only the poem and a good map.
      I have recently came to a complete solution. (My Opinion)
      The man is a GENIUS.(FACT!!!!!!)

      Clearly Clueless

  48. Wouldn’t it seem to make sense that FF’s answer is in line with how we should follow the clues? If the first one to three clues require a map and the rest require walking then he answered correctly if he knew the locations on a map.

  49. Boaz on March 22, 2018 at 4:53 am said:

    “Oh, After The Fact…I thought that might be the case but then I saw sometimes it is used in such a way that didn’t make sense in a sentence…which led me to doubt. Thank you for clearing that up for me Focused.

    Have a good breakfast, I’m out of eggs and bread again, lol.”

    Boaz, sounds like the making of a great breakfast – BACON!!! 🙂

  50. I got to use search research at work today!, answering a question about “headwaters”:

    “Headwaters” is not very clearly defined term. For example, USGS has two definitions, the first uses only stream length, and the second bows to tradition and accepts “commonly known as” to be a criteria. A perfect example is the Mississippi River. Although by length, the farthest point from the mouth of the Mississippi River is arguably a spring in Yellowstone National Park on the Firehole River, which flows into the Madison River, which flows into the Missouri River, which flows into the Mississippi, by common acceptance, the Missouri is a tributary to the Mississippi, and the Mississippi headwaters somewhere else altogether. To further complicate things, USGS has at times published the length of the Mississippi in it’s “longest rivers” list based on that spring in Wyoming.

  51. I purchased a Garrett AT Gold metal detector to be more efficient because my previous cheap metal detector was junk and now I have to recheck some spots plus some coordinates, so wish me luck.

    • If the chest is not hidden at my coordinates then it must be buried three feet down under the blaze or near tarry scant. IMO

      • SCRAPBOOK 78 states “Second, I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.”
        That (in my humble opinion) tells me it is not buried… just sayin.

        • David;

          I read it differently. Forrest does not say that if a searcher was closer than 12′ that he would not SEE it, he says that the searcher who is closer than 12 feet would find it – a Big difference. To me, Forrest is saying that if a searcher is closer than 12 feet from the treasure, it is not an accident, the searcher KNOWS that the treasure is there, all the searcher has to do is then find the exact spot, which COULD indicate that it is buried – JMO – JDA

        • fenn has also stated;
          *If you can find the treasure chest it won’t be a big job for you to get it.
          As well as;
          *If you find the blaze the answer to your question will be obvious ~ when he was asked about the distance between the blaze and the chest.
          *fenn has explained his reason for not saying buried vs. hidden [paraphrasing] If debris blows in there/on it and covers it, is it buried…

          Rick ‘not’ in FL ~’If the chest is not hidden at my coordinates then it must be buried three feet down under the blaze or near tarry scant. IMO’
          It sounds like your making excuses IF your solve fails.
          I also think fenn understands very well that anything left out [over time, ‘down the road’] will be come buried eventually, be it 10 – 25 -100 – 1000 years or more down the road.

          While I don’t think it is out in the open… it does appear that the blaze is key to location the chest and once you have found the blaze…whatever is needed to be done will be easy and obvious to the person that got that far in the clues. Everyone one else will simply walk on by, including searchers who don’t have a full solve.

          David,
          The quote you posted, imo, and in addition to these other quotes, seemingly implies / suggest, that the blaze might be more than 12′ from the chest… by following the clues. Logically thinking.

          I’ll also add IMO, when fenn uses terms and words such as; others, people, anyone, some, many… they relate to searchers in search mode. Many comments about the first two clues solvers and folks within 500′ comments have these words referring as such, and most of those comments refer to direct e-mails and Q&A’s from searchers/interviews about the chase.

          Example; “people have figure the first couple of clues, and unfortunately walked pass the treasure chest”
          “People” represent searchers in search mode with solved clues…

          • assuming the chest is neither buried nor covered, and apart from the possibility of debris blowing on top of the chest and ultimately burying it, it may also be possible that, given the weight of the chest, exposure to rain, etc., could have caused the chest to sink into the ground…

          • You right SuzyQ, The chest would eventually succumb to gravity and sink unless on solid rock.

          • In order for the chest to completely sink into the ground, it would need to have a bulk density higher than the earth it sits on (and the earth would have to be easily displaced, e.g. sand). The chest is 10″ x 10″ x 5″ = 500 cubic inches = 8193.5 cubic centimeters. If the mass of the chest and its contents is 42 lbs = 19.05 kilograms, the bulk density is only 19050/8193.5 = 2.32 g/cm^3. That is a density lower than most rocks and minerals with a few exceptions like coal and porous sandstone. In other words, if ordinary rocks of comparable shape aren’t sinking into the ground, then neither will the chest.

            But a better way to look at the problem is with pressure. At 7600-foot altitude (halfway between 5000′ and 10200′), atmospheric pressure is about 11.1 pounds per square inch (PSI). If the chest is lying flat, its 42 lbs. are distributed over 100 square inches, producing an overpressure of only 0.42 PSI — less than a 4% addition. *This* is the reason that rocks (and treasure chests) don’t just sink into (dry) ground over time. Mud is another matter… 😉

          • Zap and swwot, taking the bulk density topic from a “static” to “dynamic” consideration and expanding upon swwot’s point, let’s make the dynamic example fun – such as a location that has thousands of tiny earthquakes that can vibrate the ground. An example would be the dynamics shown is this video:

            https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=yfp-t&p=fluidized+bed+utube+sand+kids#id=1&vid=1512d7dbf6b524d09f87feeb5090b7bb&action=click

            The person can “sit” on top of the sand and will not sink in static conditions. However, this changes in a dynamic condition. The fluidized bed is an extreme example but thousands of tiny earthquakes could also be an example. What do you think?

          • When I was a red aged, my brother said I was a pirate’s dream…I had a sunken chest. Good night folks. 😉

          • Covert One,

            Nice video link – I have some experience with “quicksand” that was being suspended by a spring near a farm pond when I was growing up. The water was way too cold and the “pot” to small to put your whole body in, but we stuck our arms and legs in. You could grab some sand if you closed your hand, but if you withdrew your arm slow enough, no sand would stick to you.

      • I am not one that believes it is buried due to well, reasons people have already stated. The biggest one is the “no tool will be needed” comment. Good luck to you though and if it is buried you will have proved us wrong.

        • Couldn’t find that quote Aaron “no tool will be needed” I read something similar though and don’t know where it is.
          Help

          • …while fools argue about the quest, he won’t even need a tool, as he carries out the chest.

            This is the wording that has been passed around on the blogs since 2013… It should be enough to research where it came from and how accurate it might be.

          • JDA, beat me to it. Hence the reason folks should attempt to find usable and verifiable quotes.

          • Thanks guys, I thought it may have been fact but now see it’s just hearsay.
            So maybe we do need a tool or would be helpful.

          • Hi Chance: I still think metal detectors are out due to Forrest’s “technology won’t help” comment (see below). And I have a hard time imagining Forrest taking a shovel with him to bury the chest — talk about standing out like a sore thumb, leaving your car with a backpack and a shovel!

          • Chance,
            If we’re talking about buried vs. hidden… and fenn saying with won’t be a big job… Think of this. IF, as Rick suggested; ‘buried three feet’ in the ground, To dig that hole would take a bit of effort for many. Not to mention attempting to pull out a 10″ box @ 42lb out would be almost impossible for many.
            LOL unless of course you have 40″ long arms and build like the hulk.
            If you’re going to bring a shovel, might as well bring a pickaxe for hard pan dirt, and a come-a-long to winch that puppy out of there. Should take more than an hour or so.
            But most important… please fill the hole back in so when Little 3 yr old Sally is with mom and dad searching for the chest… she doesn’t accidentally fall in up to her ponytail.

          • I guess a shovel is out but maybe a garden spade to dig a little pit just deep enough for the box.

        • “The chest weighs 42 pounds plus, best to have gloves”
          There’s nothing better than “best”.
          Gloves because the chest is heavy for some or are there sharp rocks there? What kinda gloves? LOL

          • I still think that the searcher on their path, following the clues, and already knows, that a bell will be at one of the clues. With the story of the bells, with Eric Sloane, the messages, etc… it makes sense that the searcher may have that opportunity. With that, and if so possible, the searcher would need a shovel. If the searcher is only looking chest, no shovel needed. If uncertain, take one of those long “probing” thingies. Whatever way, just save enough room for a lot of water…

          • charlie,
            I don’t think bells have anything to do with treasure hunt.
            The bells are a different hunt.

          • and charlie enlightens us all yet again…I don’t get it man…you are constantly shouting from the rooftops that everyone is wrong, yet no substantial discussions…aren’t you tired yet? don’t you want to shout about ‘all the info’ not being in the poem? Sorry, you’re entitled to your opinion, but this equivalent of someone bothering to spend the time to say ‘I agree’…great, thanks, what are you contributing? and no I don’t have the hint yet either, nor the chest, all IMO

      • Rick, I don’t think coordinates — or any other numbers or math — will help find the TC.

    • Rick: on EIS radio in August 2013, Forrest said, in part, “Einstein had said, ‘I don’t know what we’ll fight World War III with, but World War IV is going to be fought with sticks.’ And the technology is changing so fast. I mean, if your computer is two years old, it’s archaic today. Technology is not going to help you find that treasure. But your mind and your body and your attitude changes as things change.”

      I think you’d have to agree that a metal detector is “technology”.

      • Forrest does say a metal detector will help, “if your in the right spot.”
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPhPwL6d8I4
        That being said, he also said in SB 78 Second, “I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.”

        So if it is likely that you should find it if you are within 12′ of it, you most likely won’t need a metal detector to do so. For those of us whose eyesight isn’t so great on a good day, it can be a helpful tool.

        I always take mine just in case, but not because I believe it is buried. It certainly helps with areas of old and new foliage, and prickly pears.

      • The “Everything is Stories” interview is one of the best interviews with Forrest out there. I encourage anyone who hasn’t listened to it to take the time to.

        http://www.eisradio.org/item/003/

        It’s OK to disagree with Forrest. I disagree with this statement: “Technology is not going to help you find that treasure.” I mean, unless you frequent book stores in Santa Fe, you did, in fact, learn about the treasure chest through technology. I’m sure that learning that it exists is helpful in finding it.

        • Isn’t that just ‘word of mouth’ Jeremy?
          If I bought the book and called someone on a landline is that technology helping-?- or told a friend at a social gathering. If you read about it in the Sunday Times is that simply a news story-?- compare to, lets say, the internet.

          I refer to; ““Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about…magnetic variation, depth meters, drones …”
          Although fenn did add…Excellent research materials are TTOTC, **Google Earth**, and/or a good map.f” But even that appears to be an, “and/or” and not a necessity.

          • Seeker are you suggesting that list are things we searchers need to ignore? I mean you quote it a lot, so then how do you explain: “Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, … riddles …”

            riddles????

            But didn’t he say, “But if you’re gonna find the treasure, you’re gonna have to solve the RIDDLE that’s in my poem”

            Certainly looking forward to your twist on that puppy!

          • 9=9,
            Not ignore, not useful to find the chest.
            If someone want to scout an area with a drone, fine by me. May save a lot of leg work if the terrain ahead seems too rough or impassable… lol which would be a good indicator to a wrong solve, but not much more.

            Remember, fenn made that list, short as it is, I’m sure there were other things we could be thinking of that wouldn’t help either.

            Ah! the riddle, yep… that was perplexing.
            Riddle; ‘A question or statement intentionally phrased so as to require ingenuity in ascertaining it’s answer or meaning.’
            Sounds like what we are told we need to do, right -?- decipher the clues.

            However, note “a question… ” Requiring to be clever -?- ‘ingenuity’
            Is this what fenn meant by the “important possibility” that to his uncertain knowledge, no one has mentioned?
            Many like to skip that stanza as; not much to utilize, or fenn is simply saying he’s old, or at one time, dying… and his thrill of the chase is being passed on to us. Sure, why not?
            Or is this stanza a needed piece to understand_? and fenn “cleverly” gave us the answers?.. But to what?
            So, my thought are as such… it’s not a riddle if you are supplied the answers… we just need to decipher them [ the answers ] as well… yet it is still a riddle “succeed in understanding it” which both “riddle” and “decipher” equal to… by their usage and meanings.

            There is another idea… not new, but another searcher put it this way; ‘What am I?’
            Is this the idea about how the poem unfolds? We need to know what we are looking for and not so much places to stomp to? Does that stanza do just that?

            Then again, I’m probably over complicating it, because i’m methodically trying to explain how it all can be interpreted ~ analyzing. So, that’s my story and I’m sticking with it… lol at least for now.

          • Footnote;
            “But if you’re gonna find the treasure, you’re gonna have to solve the RIDDLE that’s in my poem”
            Riddle that is IN my poem… Not so much the poem itself.. which means the clues may be separate and stand alone.
            There are many comments that seem to imply this… “clues get you closer” line of thinking.
            However, if this stanza gives up the location of the clues… is it a clue itself or simply “need to know where to start” then the clues take you closer to the chest.

            Dang it agent 99, ya got me over thinking again… G. Smart, over and out!

          • Ok Seeker, you have a story and you are sticking to it, understood. But for those who are inclined to adjust, it is interesting don’t you think? That we have something (riddle) that is very important to finding the treasure in a list of things “not useful to find the chest.” I wonder if it is worth questioning the rest of the that list…

          • 9=9,
            We shouldn’t think about the chest… we should think about the treasure[s].
            If my explanation of riddle and decipher wasn’t complete, allow me to explain it this way. There is something of importance ‘within’ the poem… not a word that is key, not one of the 9 clues, But, something that might not be part of those.

            Hint of riches new and old can’t be a clue, right? It’s not in consecutive order after the first clue WWWh.
            Many stop at the fourth stanza for ‘holding’ the 9 clues, yet we have a question with answers. Stanza 6 is hardly an empty part of the poem, only most don’t use it as one of the 9 clues…

            We have three stanzas that seemingly may not contain any of the 9 clues [ by many searchers postings ]
            Yet, no matter how anyone looks at this poem, those line and stanzas need knowing about, right?
            In there, new and old, treasure[s], riches…
            A question, answers tired and weak, ‘leave’ again?…
            Hear and listen, brave and wood, cold…

            Are they not just as important or just fillers? It could be that those three stanzas [ or many pieces of information in them ] are ‘the riddle’
            But have no real connection to the “*deciphering* of the clues” They many only hold, for example; the location of the clues.
            Or otherwise, all we may be doing is; looking for wwwh out of the many in the now known search area of four states.

            But if bible verses, code breaking, Latin or any other language is what ya want to research… fine by me. So here it is, right back at you, What are your thoughts of fenn’s comment about a Riddle IN the poem?
            For me, the clues and the “riddle” are too separate entities. One set; gets you closer to the chest [ clues ]… the other; might get you to the correct ‘location’ of the clues. Hence fenn’s warning about a direct path with no knowledge of the location ‘ beforehand ‘.

            Ask yourself this… IF all 9 clues are in stanzas 2 3 4… why the heck bother writing 3 more stanzas?
            “Looking” for WWWH is a dart toss… It is only the first clue.
            But we need to nail it down, right?

            What say you…?

          • Seek, I know you’ve seen it before but Lugnutz has pointed it out again recently, the poem is a ‘ballad 101’ format, while I can agree that poetry can be flexible, the reality is there are still ‘standards’ and f’s poem is indeed a ballad, I believe the 6 stanzas fulfill that requirement and do indeed contain hints, the layers idea here…he met the ‘ballad’ requirement (art), he put his clues in (directions/precise), and he put hints in (to help with deciphering/finding/what have you. All IMO, we know you’re just trying to ask why some think 3 stanzas is all you need, to trigger whatif discussion, but I don’t think anyone really ‘discounts’ the rest of the poem, but good points none the less, just wish more would talk about methods/approach more, but so worried about revealing too much…come on people! 8 years of no luck may mean simply that everyone is wrong…I think we see a ton of busted solves come October…the question is will people publish them and enlighten others, or continue to believe they are ‘close’.

          • Tbug

            Allow me to add much of what’s discussed here actually comes from this blog.

            I asked a couple of years ago why everyone here talks about hot springs.

            Lugnutz

        • Good point, Jeremy, about the fact that nearly every searcher is using technology of some form or another to solve Forrest’s clues, whether it’s via television, radio, print media or computer. And in fact he was specifically talking about computers as an example of technology (that rapidly becomes outdated) in the immediately preceding sentence.

          So the question is: what form(s) of technology *was* Forrest referring to when he said “Technology is not going to help you find that treasure.”? Personally, I think Forrest was referring to the actual act of physically finding the treasure, and not the exercise of solving the clues in order to know where to find it. After all, he didn’t say, “Technology isn’t going to help you solve the clues.”

          So if he was talking specifically about finding the treasure, that would seem to rule out two obvious forms of technology: a metal detector and a GPS unit.

    • Aaron. I don’t believe it is buried, nor is it covered by human intervention. I believe it is placed (hidden) among rocks or in a crevasse. This would keep it relatively protected from the elements and also ensure that it would not be “stumbled upon” by someone who had not solved the poem.

  52. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, I am gaining an appreciation for why a few searchers admonished me here last year (and/or the year before) for blabbing too much. So no more pointers from me — IMO the Chase is getting too uncomfortably close to ending, and it would be a mistake to continue to underestimate my competition. Good luck, all!

    • Zap…everyone that participates is a winner. Question; Are your shoes now on the right feet? Have a good search season!

    • Hi ken: shoes? In order to better get inside Forrest’s head, I figured I needed to ditch the shoes. He probably goes through a lot of socks. 😉

    • Seeing is believing.

      Please try to relax.

      The above is IMO. Your continued wileage is likely to vary (also IMO).

    • It will be interesting. With so many headed to Yellowstone this year it seems like that will be the action state. I wish I could go but I am needed elsewhere at that time. I second that- Good luck to all!

  53. Surviving myself. Any oddities or ‘hints’ in this chapter? Not a lot of conversations on this one.

  54. “It is better to take a shovel and not have to use,
    than needing a shovel and not having taken it.”

    I subscribe to this motto when it comes to bear spray 🙂

  55. Note to all, It is high water season. Forrest said, “The treasure chest is not under water, nor is it near the Rio Grande River. It is not necessary to move large rocks or climb up or down a steep precipice, and it is not under a man-made object.” I am saying. You do not have to cross on foot or by boat a challenging river. Remember he said he hid it when he was 79 or 80 years old. Be safe out there. g

  56. Seeker, I believe that it is likely that stanza’s 1 and 5, which are undeniably very similar, contain the riddle that lets you know what IT is in the clues. Stanza 6 gives hints, or confirmations, that you are in the right location.

    • Ok Aaron,
      Walk it through…your idea.

      I can see a relationship to “in there ” and fenn “leaving from there” AKA why is it I must go and leave. So would “in there” made fenn tired and weak?
      Most, would like to think stanza 5 is about fenn’s life…. why couldn’t it be about the task, or the very least, what the poem might pertain to in someway.
      I find it funny that he tells us he ‘went someplace’ in stanza 1, tells us how he got there [ 2 3 4] then tells us he’s must go and leave, [ which can be assumed {by the poem} he’s leaving the place he went to.]
      Then challenges all to hear and listen, as well as, if your brave and in the wood… which seem to be a place or a meaning of a place.

      My possible explanation doesn’t give up places or deciphered clues, only a thought of those stanzas could be relaying a whatIF idea… [stanza 1 and 5 connection, line of thinking]
      What are your WhatIFs?
      Just saying the riddle [1 and 5 stanzas] lets us know what IT is, doesn’t explain how you came to that idea/reasoning { I mean, I can say IT is where “in there” applies to} … enlighten us.

      • Well, I came to these thoughts by attempting to marry the poem to a map. Not just the clues but the entire thing. The clues by themselves are what we have to follow once we know where to go on the map.

        In this line of thought I am using stanza’s 1 and 5 as on the surface what Fenn did but also how these things can be related to geographical features. Can we find something on a map that is alone in there with treasures, riches old and new, ect? 2 stanza’s that almost mirror each other with mirroring thoughts on 2 things Fenn and geographical features. Maybe this is where the answers to the secret lies?

        • Meant to include that when find this you begin it at the wwh at this location. The riddle of the first stanza = it.

          • In my solution my wwwh is a few meters from where I think the chest is.

            I considered the poem to be the description of a very specific place.

            It’s almost like a circle around the treasure.

            As if FF were standing in the trunk and looked around describing the place.

            I hope I can do BOTG soon.

  57. “So why is it that I must go….”

    Forrest knows. The “key” to solving the poem, to me, was to determine the answer to this question, which Forrest hints at in the remainder of the sentence. The answer to this question, ii believe, ties all of the clues together.

    • I would agree that this question/riddle is not of little importance to finding the chest. This line doesn’t obviously lend itself to being married to a specific location, and perhaps that’s why many searchers appear to give it little thought.

      Tom B, you write in the past tense as if you’ve already found this question’s answer. I presume an understanding of the poem as FF intends it to be interpreted yields the answer. Would you say that’s true? Does your answer to the question lead you to a specific location that the locations of the 9 clues verify for you?

      • XFiles: I believe the question “So why is it I must go…” is referring to the end of his life. The poem is the story of his life in addition to the map to his treasure. In this way, it does give you location of the treasure, in that it gives you the connection that ties the clues together.

        • Just a question to consider: “So why is it that I must go and leave…” Don’t “go” and “Leave” mean the same, or nearly the same thing? Why use two words – separated by only three letters – and – that mean the same or nearly the same thing? If “go” = “leave” – You have “Leave” and “Leave” or Leave + leave = leaves doesn’t it? HUMMMM? Just something to think about. –

          “I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.” Strange use of the English language, don’t you think?
          I’ve done it = I did it. What did Forrest do?
          Forrest hid the treasure.
          “I hide it tired”(sic) ???? – How can someone hide something tired”
          Tired can mean – wanting to lie down, or be close to the earth. So, I hid it down low, or down close to the earth???
          “…and now I’m weak.” – I hid it down low, close to the earth, and now I’m weak????
          Weak can mean watered down – like a weak drink – A watered down drink.
          So, I hid it low to the ground in a wet or watered down place. HUMMM?????

          Just meant for food for thought – (Beats contemplating ones navel – 🙂 ) – JDA

          • “it” is life I believe. He has lived a full life. He’s old, tired, and weak. It’s time to go to the next great adventure that is the unknown.

          • “it” = what he has done all his life = treasures hunts = The Thrill of the Chase.

            Begin “the thrill of the chase” where warm waters halt

          • I have thought the same thing JDA. The poem suggest that he was tired and weak when he decided to hide it. Maybe because he waited till he was older to do it? I have suggested also that stanza’s 1 and 5 could be related to not only FF, on the surface, but geographical locations. I river or creek can be flowing hard and strong in some places and be considered no place for the meek, while in others slow and small, perhaps tired and weak.

            I also find “effort worth the cold” an odd thing to say. How can effort be worth the cold. Effort in and of itself isn’t a reward worth anything. The TC would be worth the cold but the effort?

          • Hi Aaron;

            “Your effort will be worth the cold.”

            Could this be as simple as Forrest telling us to look on the shady (maybe north) side of a hill? – The side of a hill that gets little sunshine? Maybe there is some kind of overhang that keeps this area “colder” than the surrounding areas?

            Think back to childhood – playing battleship. “Am I hot?” “Am I cold?” Meaning am I close, or am I far away. If one draws a line from point “A” to point “B”. Going “Off that line” – either right or left, would mean that you are getting colder as you move away from that line – “You effort will be worth the cold.” could mean that we are to move either right or left from an “obvious” line of travel.

            Just a couple of ideas to ponder. Does the line mean either of these things? Heck if I know – I’m still searchin’ – JDA

        • Tom B, XFiles and JDA,

          Another thing to realize about the 5th Stanza is it follows: “Take the chest and go in peace.”

          The phrase: “So why is it I must go and leave my trove for all to seek?” Signals to the reader, that the clue section of the poem is complete. Just as Stanza #1’s last verse: “And hint of riches new and old.” is signaling that the clues are to follow.

          The last line in Stanza #5; “The answers I already know, I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak” — Is saying; Forrest knows the answers to the previous clues and now it’s up to you to figure them out — If you want title to the gold.

          Stanza’s #1 & #5 bookend the clues (Proclamation & Purpose)

          Stanza #6; then says, if you’ve answered the questions (figured out the clues correctly) and are brave (not meek) enough to believe in yourself and venture out into the woods — It Promises you the Treasure Chest…

          GCG
          As always – this is my opinion

          • GCG;

            As I have posted before, I think that you are taking too shallow a view of these three stanzas. I see what you see, but I also see much deeper meaning. I may be wrong, but I am confident in my interpretations.

            Best of luck to Ya – and TRY to STAY SAFE once you put BotG – JMO JDA

    • Sowyst, easy enough…Southwest, it’s a clue…It comes after a spot you’re at and before a distance.IMO, it’s the 6th clue…

        • we would have to keep it all together. So w (h=2 or to) y is it (that i must go, (so take out the i). Leaves Sowyst. That could be anything I guess.
          Southwest, Sow yeast, South wy state, street. etc…Guess it all depends on the what if at that point in the poem. Could be South at the “Y”.
          JW, do you have a “Y” in your solve? Lol, if so, so do I. It’s 7′ tall and is a reference to: Skippy, knowledge, the shadow, Indiana Jones, right straight, and 80. At least for me. All it really is is a stick.

          • In my solve there is a side canyon there. So the Y being the choice between whether to stay in the main canyon or take the branch. I’ve also had thoughts that it might be “So high I sit” and have looked for something that looked like a throne. I won’t go into how “…that I must go” could be a confirmation of it being a throne since I’m sure that’s obvious.

            I’m not set on any one interpretation of this line and I agree that there are a lot of possibilities. I’m also far from certain that I’m going the right direction when I’m BOTG at that point. The area this puts me in is has a lot to stimulate the imagination, so it’s easy to find things that might fit later clues but they’re not as clear or as well ordered as the previous clues are for me.

  58. “I think we see a ton of busted solves come October…the question is will people publish them and enlighten others, or continue to believe they are ‘close’.” -tbug

    tbug, if the treasure is not found we will see mostly people continuing to believe they are close, either physically, theoretically, or both IMO. In the end finding the treasure may take a responsible sharing of knowledge, and brainstorming.

    • Aaron;

      You say, ” In the end finding the treasure may take a responsible sharing of knowledge, and brainstorming.” So what do you want to brainstorm? I do not see you sharing a lot about your solve. If you want knowledge sharing and brainstorming, throw a couple of questions out there, and give YOUR opinion regarding those questions. What’s holding you back? JDA

  59. Hi JDA, by responsible sharing I do not mean posting on a public forum for all to see. That would be the opposite of responsible. I am referring to a like minded group of individuals that would be willing to openly share information with each other in order to find the chest. Pre-arranged agreements would need to be made in advance. It would need to be done in a more private method so that there is equal reciprocation between sharing and gaining knowledge. If I were to post a solve here that I have not put BOTG for yet then I would not only get other people interested in sharing knowledge but hundreds of others that do not even post here.

    Sharing theories and thought processes related to a solve is all most feel comfortable doing here, understandably.

    • Sorry Aaron – I have never supported the idea of a “committee” solve. As you know, I search Wyoming. What do I do if the majority of this group or committee says to search in Colorado? Am I supposed to give up on my belief that Wyoming is the place to search? Sorry – not likely.

      How can a group agree on anything about the solve? Here on the blog, all we can do is agree to disagree on almost every issue. How would a private group be any different? In most groups, the loudest voice wins – the squeeky wheel gets the grease. I am loud and assertive – Does that mean my view is any better (or worse) than the quieter – meeker views?

      Someone once said, “A camel is a horse designed by a committee.” What would a solve look like that was designed by a committee? I suspect it would look like a camel with flippers, swim like a platypus,
      have a peacock tail, and lay eggs in the sand like a turtle. JMO – JDA

      • I get what you are saying JDA. Sharing openly doesn’t mean people will come to an agreement. Even open minded individuals would prefer to stick to their beliefs over others most of the time.

        Brainstorming sessions would be useful for this. If a group follows the rules of brainstorming session more creativity comes out. People aren’t judged on their creativity and it is a free open environment that everyone is encouraged to participate in. Shooting down ideas is not really an option and accepting them as your own is not really the goal either. It is more about people working together to figure out what is possible. Google brainstorming and go to the mindtools site for some good info.

        Getting everyone involved in one place would not be easy but meeting online is very easy.

        My family is great and are happy to get out and go look for treasure with me but they are not as enthusiastic about it as I am. Running ideas by them would not be as beneficial as with a group that does the research and likes to talk about it.

        I do not have much of the answers admittedly but our current methods are just not as efficient as they could be. With each person going at it alone it may take 1000 years to find it. Working together better would take much less.

        • … and that is your belief, and you are welcome to it. My belief is the opposite. For this particular task – solving the riddles of the poem – I see multiple input as confusion. True, I have gleaned insight into a particular subject via input from blog members. Has this insight changed, in any measurable way, my strategy for solving the riddles of the poem? I do not think so.

          I have a team if about 7 searchers. Some trips have had as many as 14 (all family members or VERY close friends) – Most trips include 4 – 5 members. Of this group, only one or two have actually offered suggestions regarding the actual solve. For the most part, they are “Searchers” – meaning they see their job as being my eyes and feet. On the other hand, they see me as the “Solver” – not the “searcher.”

          I have listened to, and used their suggestions – whether I agreed with them or not. Why? They have invested time, energy and money in “MY” quest. They have EARNED the right to express their opinions, and to have them listened to, and implemented. This “Trust” has been built over months of searching. I do not see this kind of trust being built in an informal exchange of emails. Sure, you have a common goal, but can I “trust” you enough to reveal “MY” wwwh? Something that I have kept a secret for 27 months on the blog? Not likely.

          Best of luck in your quest to pull together a group of people who feel as you do, that more minds = better solutions. Sorry, I am old and stuck in my ways – JDA

          • JDA, that is great that you have so many searchers helping you and offering you suggestions. I think that does give you an advantage over some. It may even help you overcome being old and stuck in your ways to some extent 🙂

            It is too close to search season to try and get people to group together now I think. Lots have their solves in mind and are eager to prove or disprove them. If it is not found this season then I’ll bring it up more after. People will be more willing to look for answers then I believe.

            Who knows though. FF’s gut feeling could be right and we may not be talking about this at all soon.

            Best of luck to you too! – Aaron

          • Thanks for the well wishes Aaron – and I think that you are right about timing. October/November sounds good – people are getting ready for the winter’s respite and contemplation.

            Forrest may be right, and we will be discussing just “How did he/she figure that out?”

            Good luck in your search and your “committee” – JDA

        • Aaron:

          As you seem open to new ideas, consider the following:

          A(s) . . . (ther)E
          I . . . (gol)D

          First/last letters lines 1/24, CCW (fm lower left) = IDEA

          A(nd) . . . (bol)D
          I(f) . . . (woo)D

          First/last letters lines 2/23,
          CW (fm lower left) = I ADD
          Using standard simple letter substitution . . .
          I=9
          A=1
          D=4
          D=4
          I = A+D+D

          w(I)th . . . treasure(S)
          yo(U) . . . th(E)

          5th letters in from ends lines 2/23, CW from upper right = I SE U

          I SE(e) (yo)U
          I USE (anagram and/or commutation)

          I = 9
          S=19
          E=5
          U=21

          S+E+U = 19+5+21 = 45
          4+5 = 9 = I

          Note the potential outcomes of this result . . . This loop implies mathematical equality using summative reduction is OK. Further, very selective homophones and anagrams are in play. Nice to know, but this puts the solver into a permutations wilderness of extreme proportions. No place for the meek, indeed!

          Suggest that the info provided by these loops exceeds that divulged, as well, but I’ll keep those details private for now. Suffice it to say that “I” has a secret and your job is to unravel “IT”. Fail to do this correctly means no box, and that goes for all of us.

          Further, I believe these observations point the way to how the poem can be dissected, and it takes circular thinking based on imaginative linguistics and math to arrive at the process needed to generate the final answer. Then it takes meticulous work to ensure that no errors inadvertently creep into the mix as permutations are eliminated.

          And, a friendly caution, if you don’t have a coordinate in hand before you go searching, I sincerely doubt that you can retrieve the chest.

          I think the solution process starts with simple substitution. Based on my work, the math changes before Line 5 can be used at all. In my current solve, the math changes several more times after that, as well.

          Everyone wants to believe that WWWH is the first clue. I disagree. The “I” loops I just showed you are absolutely critical to me, not because they put you on the map, but because they put you on the process trail. Identify the inputs and the outputs (most of the info provided directly are outputs = answers!). Devise the correct starting key and methodology needed to begin following the directions provided in Stanzas 2-4. Additional background on this general concept can be found on this blog.

          Suggest checking out Brock Swenson’s solve: “Not Just Another Solution.” This will give you a primer on how to use math and the importance of “To Be.” While simple substitution has very limited value (it cannot put you on the chest directly, IMO), it is an excellent way to get started. And while I no longer believe that the blaze can be found in the poem itself, as Brock suggests, I do believe that some of his info is quite germane with respect to final answer validation, so check it out.

          I hope this unconventional “I” loop “IDEA” helps you out in some way.

          Regards,

          Iowaengr

          • That’s pretty impressive Iowaengr. If you ever hide a treasure I’d have no chance of ever figuring it out! However in this case, It is my opinion, that Forrest doesn’t think like this. He is the hustler extraordinaire!

          • So, you think that f would use the letter values as they sit? a=1,b=2,c=3….etc…
            That seems very obvious and too easy. Especially since he doesn’t follow rules and likes to go by his rules. I think if he gave letter values like this, he would use his rules. He would show ways in the poem that would lead one in that direction. Maybe that works only in some situations. Like the word blaze. b=2, l=3(because the 12th letter, 1+2=3) 2+3=5, e is the 5th letter. But how about “gaze”? If it doesn’t work in all situations, probably wrong.
            Don’t get me wrong, there is an alpha numeric value system, it’s just not what you described. IMO. That system solves for everything. But there are references to the regular alphabet values. They just come into play in certain situations. Like 2442, or 66, or FF.
            The poem will show his rules for letter values, I guarantee you they are there. It’s one of the layers of the poem…

          • lowaengr, you have clearly put a lot of work into this. Whether or not this is the right way to go about it I don’t know but the kind of thinking and effort that it takes to come up with this is impressive.

      • Lol, JDA… (you said platypus)….
        So, with the turtle reference, does that mean a committee would think that it is buried? I’m with JDA on this one. two minds may be better than one, but someone would still need to lead this committee. A board of directors still has a chairmen of the board. And, if my committee couldn’t respect my authoratah, then I’m taking my ball and going home while they sit and play canasta.

        • Hi, Charlie. Good to see that you are still here critiquing.

          Please note that I specifically said that the math starts w simple substitution and changes before any significant progress towards solution can be made. So, I completely agree w you on that point.

          A year ago, I was still working on the assumption that a path through the poem created a blaze whereby the letter values would change with the effect that the To Be equations would solve perfectly.

          We exchanged some ideas privately and I will respect the confidentiality of those communications by not commenting on them here other than to say we have some differences of opinion about how to reach the final answer.

          I will also say that after a lot of permutation elimination, I had to concede that your belief that the letter key must be imagined and compiled is correct. While my current key is not yours and my solution process is far different from yours, I remain appreciative of your contributions to this site and my efforts personally.

          Best of luck to you this summer.

          • That is fair enough. I totally agree with someone that agrees with me.:).
            If I remember correctly, you were putting an attempt at solving the poem, and I can get with that. I still have a problem with the thought that f used the letter values as they are, examples: a=1,b=2,c=3, etc… but I have found in numerous situations where those values do match up. Then again, sometimes those values don’t, and for me, when something doesn’t, I put it at the back of my mind or discard the whole thing. And, then again, when something is so obvious, it’s hard to deny.
            I’m seeing more and more evidence that solving the poem and getting the end spot is the way to go. I think a searcher will know that end spot before they know wwwh. If you are seeing the numbers, and found some coordinates, I think that will be proof to you that this is the case. With his ATF’S, it’s hard to see that all the clues could be solved. Just too many holes, and f saying that there just no correct answer for some of those clues. Good for us, bad for the clue to clue peeps. I guess we will all see someday soon, Good luck to you this Summer, and stay safe…Don’t forget the water..

    • Hi Aaron,

      Re: “… by responsible sharing I do not mean posting on a public forum for all to see. That would be the opposite of responsible. I am referring to a like minded group of individuals that would be willing to openly share information with each other in order to find the chest.”

      I’m sure this sort of activity has been going on for years, even if only informally. Searchers privately email other searchers and exchange ideas more openly than would be wise in a public forum. Still, I think successfully solving Forrest’s poem will ultimately be an individual achievement. More like Andrew Wiles solving Fermat’s Last Theorem. If Da Vinci, Monet, Picasso and Kandinski worked together on a painting, I think most would agree that the result would be far worse than the four of them working independently.

      • I see your Da Vinci, Mnet, Picasso, and Kandinski and raise you a Magic and Kareem, or a Bill Gates and Paul Allen, or Mark Zuckerberg and whomever it was that helped him.

        Lets see what happens this summer and then talk. I personally do hope an individual finds it this summer 🙂

      • Hi Aaron: I just don’t see the poem as a division-of-labor problem, nor will the correct solution come as a result of process of elimination. With the wrong mindset, even the correct solution will go unrecognized. I (and others well before me) have suggested that if Forrest posted the correct solution here under an assumed name, most would reject it — if only out of emotional attachment to their own solutions.

        • Agreed Zap. It takes a paradigm shift from the wrong mindset to solve it. IMO

        • Also agreed. The right solution might even be moderated for trolling since any solution that outlandish must have been posted just to mock us.

        • I agree that people do tend to reject other solutions based on an attachment to their own and may reject the correct solution when presented to them. That is the hurdle a team would have to face and I am not saying it is an easy one. It would require people be at least open minded enough to talk through all possible solutions. A team doesn’t have to and probably shouldn’t accept a solution based on it’s initial presentation but get ideas from it, add to it, use ideas in other solutions, etc. When one person tries to do this they will likely only apply new ideas to their current solution. A team of people applying new ideas and coming up with new ideas based on that application would increase their odds IMO.

          The correct solution won’t come from solely from a process of elimination but it can help in the process. The people that were close to the treasure, 200 ft and 500 ft, clearly did not solve the poem but the searchers in this group of people were at least close. The may have been close based on getting a few clues right. In the end if the poem proves to be unsolvable yet searchers can still get close to the treasure can’t you see a process of elimination at least helping? If we can get a few clues correct and eliminate area that searchers failed at we can get closer.

        • Aaron;

          I have no problem with your philosophy, I pretty much do the same thing, but instead of having someone else critique my solve, I do the critiquing myself. At every stage, I question myself. I question the validity of what I have come to. I have done my best to break my solve at every step along the way – much as your group or committee would do – I just trust “me” more than “thee”.
          :-).

          I am now on about solve #5. All of my solves have started at the same spot, and have moved forward through the clues to an “end” spot. In truth, my solves have only changed from the parking lot/place on. Up to the parking place, nothing has changed, despite my trying to “break” my solve. My hoB has recently changed, but only in how I describe it or define it. Its location has not changed, so there was no change to the “map” – I had a building/structure associated with my hoB, now I don’t.
          I now use a geographical feature adjacent to my old hoB, instead of the original hoB that had a structure associated with it. New input from, Cynthia caused this change.

          So, once at the parking area, I hiked – found my blaze, but no Indulgence. Re-evaluated, and started again, but my new starting point became my end point from the previous solve. I had to critique my solve and figure out if I had made an error. So far, my only error has been that I had not gone far enough. Not far enough either in feet or yards, or not far enough in using my imagination.

          Will I find it this search season – I can only hope. I AM confident, but then again, I have been confident before. All I can say is that I feel that the poem has pointed me in the right direction. – Again, Good Luck to Ya’ JDA

          • Your process is as good as a single person can I have I would guess. I think some people would be able to get past trust issues with certain legalities in place. The more different thought processes and imagination put into everyone’s ideas would yield more results to choose from.

            This might all be moot if the treasure is found this summer so it will be worth talking about more after if it’s not however.

  60. FD, I have made up a list of possible candidates and have added you too it already 🙂

    • I think a quick survey of Fennboree attendees might help plan/think about how this could work…obviously the well known searchers who went in years past were recognized, what about those ‘new to the chase’ folks who showed up…were not the experienced/well know searchers nervous to have newbies listening over their shoulders? How was that trust established? Not having attended myself, I can only guess, but I’m sure there wasn’t a sit down where you go around and everyone says exactly where their WWWH is…but some have spoken about smaller groups ‘sharing info’…I could see how people could more openly talk about method/approach and still keep details un-revealed in a face-face setting, where here (through typing) sometimes it is just too hard to convey your thinking in a mutually understandable way. I think there are lots of people who would discuss ideas in an open ‘brainstorming’ environ, not worrying about the ‘competition’ aspect, those that do would simply not take part. I’m in…I still think if everyone who has done BOTG and written a general area off (how do you folks define ‘a thorough search’?), if we put all of those places on a map, I think we could statistically eliminate a large chunk of the search area (in combination with the mutually agreed upon ‘facts’…elevation, not the desert, in the mountains’, similar to the GIS project those college kids did). My personal experience offering help w botg searches (I live in Denver! and know a lot of North-Central CO and a lot of WY geography), and general collaboration with folks has not gone smoothly…it ranged from ‘hey I’m a crazy person, please help!’ to ‘I need you to sign this NDA that says your share is zero’…not really in the spirit of collaboration. Maybe if we created a mission statement where each participant signs an agreement to work towards solving the mystery, not being greedy about the contents or the fame aspect, there could be a real breakthrough…think of it like those groups that buy lottery tickets together, thus increasing their odds (albeit slightly)…this should be the same approach. All IMO IMO IMO

      • Like the lottery ticket comparison. A group that can eliminate areas, especially if that group contained searchers that have had a large number of searchers like Dal, would help with efficiency for sure. Defining levels of thoroughness to a search would be useful as you could grid of rivers, streams, canyons in various colors that range from searched under every bush within a 20′ area to I did not find anything blaze-like so I just kept walking.

        Planning and mutual decision making would be keys for the team concept to work.

          • Hi Rickinflorida, I’ll have a two week trip to the Rockies this summer and will be searching both WY and MT. I have different methods for a few different solutions and am happy with all of them. What part of FL are you in? My dad lives on the gulf coast in Destin. Love the beaches and warm water there.

          • FD: my wife and I were in Naples just last month. What a great town! That city has some MONEY: the mansions are astounding, and more golf courses per capita than anywhere else in the U.S.

      • Tbug,

        By eliminating prior wwwh, you just eliminated those that correcrly identified wwwh.

  61. Forrest said in May of 2017, “But if you’re gonna find the treasure, you’re gonna have to solve the riddle that’s in my poem.”

    This year we have talked about the poem being a map, and that there is a riddle in the poem as well. And, there are 9 clues. Imagination more important than knowledge.

    There is a “word that is key”, not necessarily a “keyword”. I believe the word is not in the poem, and I know many do not agree. No worries at all.

    What does he really mean by saying, “From there it’s no place for the meek”? How does this statement work with “I hid the treasure in a safe place” (not exact quote)?

    My thought is based on some research, and I believe it is an instruction to “cross the creek”. It is reasonable due to Forrest’s other statements about the area not being dangerous.

    He said “Nobody’s gonna happen on that treasure chest”. Other folks like Forrest who love to hike off trail might just happen on it but he thinks not. How can he be so sure about that?

    I have to go pretty soon to finally prove or disprove my favorite solve area. It’s the only way I will ever be able to move on. I must go. Why? Because I have to know one way or the other!

    I’m packing up. My roads are open and my blaze is awaiting me.

    This is my final post on this blog. Goodbye and good luck.

    Franklin

    PS – If I don’t find the TC, I am going to move to Reno and play poker. 4 Cards and a Joker!

  62. Beginning June 2018, Rocky Mountain National Park’s entrance fee will go up $5; will be $35 per vehicle.

    • Pdenver, are you posting that information for those who wish to go on vacation there? It is a beautiful place, but… IMO, all a treasure hunter of the chest named Indulgence is going to get there is a nice vacation (memories included).

      • Hello Slurbs. It is simply information given for searchers whether they feel it’s there or elsewhere. I do not know if other search states will follow suit.

    • does that say Dal is 18? or 68? My connection is a little iffy. (or is that 108)?
      Thanks for the article Loco.

      • Charlie…at least he erred in the right direction…
        He got a few things wrong…and made up a few ideas on his own…
        I don’t think I ever said that I never walked anywhere I didn’t have to before I started looking for the treasure…I’ve been a hiker and wild places lover since I was 12…

        And I am 70…not 68…albeit I was 69 when he interviewed me…I won’t hold one year against him though. He failed in the correct direction 🙂

        I’ll have to ask Cynthia about this but I’ve never seen Cynthia with an ice axe…I am the one that carries an ice axe around. Every time I see pics of Cynthia she is using trekking poles…

        Still..Eric did a good job…Forrest would probably agree with the overall percentage of things that are truth…and it’s a good tale…

        But all this is just journalistic enhancement…
        What’s important is that he spelled my name right 🙂

          • @Dal, I noticed in the article that it said Forrest hid the treasure on his 80th birthday, and I found that interesting as Forrest has always said he hid it when he was either 79 or 80 and never gave a specific date. Is this another embellishment by the writer?

          • Wanderer-
            I have never heard Forrest make that statement. However it has been speculation by many that his birthday was the date that he hid the chest because it is the only day that he was both 79 and 80. To understand that this might be the answer to the date he hid the chest you would have to recognize his statement “I was either 79 or 80” as a riddle.

            Forrest does like to use riddles and it has been hypothesized that many of the more confusing statements Forrest has made throughout the chase are actually “riddles”.

            You may have heard this before but as an example…Forrest would never say he came in through the door. A door is a heavy and usually very sturdy blockade in a passageway. No one would likely come in through a door. They would come in through a doorway. So if you asked Forrest the question: “Did you come in through the door?” and he was feeling playful he could truthfully respond, “No.” But the answer is a riddle. The smart guy would ask the question, “If he didn’t come in the door, how did he come in?” Then analyze his answer and hopefully figure out the answer to the riddle.

            Recognizing which statements by Forrest are riddles is often the “key” to understanding what he is saying. For instance the key to understanding Forrest’s statement “I was either 79 or 80 when I hid the chest.” is simply to rephrase his statement as a question.
            When was Forrest both 79 and 80?
            The answer: His 80th birthday. On that day he was both 79 and 80 depending on the time of day he was born. He gave us the answer that we wanted when we asked, “When did you hide the chest?”. We just didn’t know it was the answer because we didn’t recognize it as a riddle.

            Some searchers believe the question as to whether the chest is hidden or buried is a riddle and the answer is obvious when you have the “key” to the answer….the key being the right question to ask?

            Riddles! What’s black and white and read all over? What state is round on the ends and hi in the middle? Why do the French only have one egg for Breakfast? Why did the chicken cross the road?

            Forrest has playfully provided many riddles throughout the life of the chase. Many are in the poem. Some have been handed out in interviews. To advance toward the chest you must recognize the riddles that stand in the path. Perhaps it is a straight path if you know the question to ask at each riddle…the “key”.

          • TTOTC is also said to contain the answers (or possibly the questions or keys) to many of the riddles posed in the poem.
            None of this is ground shaking new thought…

        • Lol, Dal, now that’s funny. Believe me, all serious, you don’t look over 55. Okay, maybe 57, but you get what I’m saying. And yes, I guess it would be tough to misspell D-A-L. (And Forrest said you could run fast). You sure he doesn’t give you inside hints???:) Anaconda is not far from Madison, now if I could only find it in the poem…WHERE’S GOOFY???

      • Well, fust things fustest, I’ve been watching for it but LuckyLove beat me to it and posted it at Thor….Thank her (I hope she don’t get mad that I posted it here?? 🙂 )

        Second, you need to read this before you get all hot and bothered about things in that article: https://forum.hintofriches.com/forum/the-hint-of-riches/9147-one-of-the-two-articles-we-ve-been-waiting-for?p=9165#post9165

        *** Kpro is the ‘boss’ over at Thor. She tried to post it here, but that old meany dal (or maybe just the system) has her in moderation….I’m sure her post will show up eventually……just trying to head off a bunch of misunderstanding………loco

        • No meanies, Kpro is techie deficient. Love Loco, love dal, both have been very kind. Fenn kind as well. Digging kind. So many so nice :).

        • thanks for the link loco imo F’s response is spot on. Journalistic enhancement is great for selling articles however it can take away from facts.
          wdor

    • I, for one, am extremely surprised that the article does not mention Randy Bilieu in the list of fatalities. Through his passing, my family has grown. May Randy R.I.P.
      That aside, the rest of the article is a good read and kept me up well past my bedtime.

    • Thank you for the link, locolobo. Is this one of the major articles Mr. Fenn mentioned which would be coming soon?

      • PDenver — has to be. Which means one more to come. I’m just happy when Forrest first mentioned the two articles coming out that he didn’t refer to them as “announcements”!

        • Zap…if you have the “correct” solve…no need to hyper-ventilate. Given the current odds…I don’t believe there is/or could be more than one…

        • Thank you, Zaphod. I had never heard of this magazine before, so I wasn’t sure. I think I had different ideas of which media did the articles.

        • Ken: “hyperventilate”? Is this a reference to my “breathless anticipation” comment on Jenny’s? 😉 This was a decent article, though I’m not sure I’d have called it “major.” It did have errors, fake quotes, and curious omissions (Randy), as Forrest and others have pointed out. Diggin’ Gypsy “infamous”?? Not the adjective I would have chosen. 🙂 Perhaps the second article will be better.

    • I’m preeeetttttyyyyy sure that Forrest drew all the illustrations for that article!!!

      ( just kidding 🙂 )

      • Jeremy,

        Why the “just kidding” comment?

        Can you find any other comparable Illustrations by “Toby Pennington.”

        (IMHO, the “devil is in the details…a picture says 1000 words.”)

    • I can see why he said it would be an important article. Amtrak is the patron saint of wandering souls.

    • Great story… I’ve noticed in this article that in the poem the journalist didn’t quite get the poem right… I figure it’s a typo , but he left out “that” in the line “so why is it “that” I must go….. nothing I’m sure… good article though… see ya

  63. I get what you are saying JDA. Your effort of making the correct move may be worth the cold it brings you. Perhaps that all that it is. It just sounds a little funny to be rewarded by being cold with effort.

    • That line, worth the cold, thinking that the intent is to search in the Summer time, how far up a mountain does a person need to go until it is cold enough for that statement? I mean 5,000, 6,000, 7,000 feet still would be warm. If it is suppose to be worth the cold, then we must be cold, and for a while. 8,000, 9,000 feet? Maybe 10,000? I think we could start narrowing down the elevation possibilities to start around 7,500-8,000 feet instead of 5,000 feet. We would be walking, that may cause someone to be a little warmer. In the Summer time, I say the chest is somewhere between 8,000-10,000 feet. Since it will be up a mountain, maybe look for a trail to go all the way to a mountain. Possible locals ski area, water high so will have a lake close by, one way to the place. Also would think that your walk will be lengthy, need time to get cold…
      And, if he could throw his bike in the water high, this place would be secluded. But the lake would be next to the chest. Why hide the chest then go even higher in elevation to get rid of a bike, then walk back down? And, since he could throw a bike in the lake, it’s not frozen. But cold…
      8008 is starting to look like a good elevation possibility. It’s 80 forward and back, it’s two omegas (800,008), it looks like two standing 8’s and one 8 lying down (=24). Anybody have a lake in their solve at 8008 feet? or close? your next trip may be worth the cold…

      • I have a cabin at 8200′ and it can get up to 85 degrees in the summer. Then again, I have seen it snow in July. I don’t think you can nail down cold from elevation. IMO Cheers!!

      • You may want to consider a less literal interpretation of “worth the cold”. Was Frosty in TTOTC cold?

        • That is a thought worth considering. I also like the idea of water being cold as the warm water has halted from our first clue.

        • Line 22 is the first, most important point of final math validation. I read it as:

          Your + Effort = Worth + The + Cold.

          Will be is future tense, so final math must satisfy this line fully. Exactly. Summative reduction unnecessary here.

          My solve works vs this gatekeeper.

          At that point, once math works, I concur w Charlie that high elevation implied. Proximity to lake and stream in Wilderness area available my spot.

          Food for thought.

        • just throwing it out there. Like Colomtnman said, it could still get warm up there.
          Frosty in a sense, yes. Was his water high? Did he boil over? Just yappin. But yes Zap, I have a different interpretation, one I know isn’t very popular. But it is a clue for me. My 8th. Just a lot of different interpretations of that line. I guess you could say, in my solve, it’s where everything happens. And, where I think there is a bell. Still have a ways to go to get the chest though, but this line is “X” for me. The spot the poem gives up. How I find wwwh.
          Lowaengr, I do believe there is a mtn. lake involved, at high elevation, the values from that line for me prove W. efft will be w or for the cold. Means: 7 will be w or for the 3311. (or the 113 3). 7 will be used at the longitude 113 3. And again, the 7 is a “Y” stick, 7′ tall. (Indiana Jones).
          So we differ, that’s good right? I still like that you are attempting to solve the poem. Your solve has evolved. Something must have caught your attention. Do you have 113 in your solve? If not, get it in there, it plays a role somewhere, I’m sure of it. It’s key. For you, it could be: ad, bc, e, kc, m, aac, or not.

  64. Here’s a fun hypothetical for the weekend…

    You have your solve that you’re confident in and you have your trip booked (flights, car, hotel, etc.) For the sake of the hypothetical, let’s say you leave July 15th.

    On Day X, you open Google Earth for the millionth time and find that there’s new imagery of your search area and ZOMG!, you zoom in and you can see the TC, right where you expected it to be. (For purposes of this hypothetical, it is definitely the TC, not you think it’s the TC).

    How far in advance of your scheduled trip would Day X have to be to rebook everything and go right away? For example, if Day X was July 7th, would you leave then (or the 8th, as soon as you were ready) or would you wait until your already scheduled trip on July 15? What if Day X was July 1? What if it was July 12? Where’s your line?

    FWIW, I think I could grit my teeth for 2-3 days, but any further out than that and I’m going sooner.

    And 2nd hypothetical, how does your answer change if you are only 90% sure it’s the TC?

    • Option Z: If you know you’re right, cancel the trip. Why go to all of the trouble of confirming it in person when you’ve got confirmation in the virtual world?

      If it’s only 90% certain, then be really annoyed at GE for not having enough resolution so that you’re forced to go out in the physical world to confirm things.

    • If I knew it was the chest I would cancel the trip and head to the spot as soon as I could get there.

    • I‘d book a second trip as early and quick as possible, retrieve and secure the trove and use the second trip to go back for all that will have to be followed up… a visit to Forrest f. e.!
      By the way… this trip for me is a 15h-flight from Berlin…

          • Thanks pdenver for the travel time from Berlin to New Mexico.

            I was actually wondering about how long it was from Berlin to the actual spot the TC is hidden in another state.

          • Covert One;

            If you think pd knows that info, do you also think she is fool enough to publish it? Just jokin’ 🙂 JDA

          • JDA – pdenver is no fool, I see her as one of the most respectable people here – and frankly, one of the nicest who post.

            The post was a joke and a poke at those who see NM as the state with the correct spot.

            So my post was to add a little humor….and I see yours was as well.

            pdenver – all in good fun…..

          • Covert One;

            Didn’t you notice my smiley face? Did you not notice the “Just jokin’? I agree with you 100 % “pdenver is no fool, I see her as one of the most respectable people here – and frankly, one of the nicest who post.” You seem a bit testy this AM Covert One. pd is one of my favorite people!!!
            JDA BRASS – Breathe, Relax And Smile Sweetly!

          • Hi JDA – your smiley face doesn’t come across on the post. It’s a square / rectangular box.

            Not testy this morning – I’ve had my coffee. Just showing some passion around a few topics…

          • Sorry the smiley face doesn’t show on your screen.

            Call it passion if you like – seemed testy to me – 🙂 (Smiley face) Have a Passionate Day JDA

          • Hello Covert One. I did checked out the times for an airport in each state…Albuquerque, Denver, Casper, and West Yellowstone…and Albuquerque was the longest time. 😉

          • Hahaha very good! No my actual solve is in Wyoming/Montana… I think I take the flight route Berlin-Amsterdam-Arlanta-Salt Lake City-Idaho Falls plus some driving I am definitely planning to join the meetup in West Yellowstone in june, so we‘ll have the chance to discuss travel times face2face! Cheers, TLo

          • Tlo – that’s fantastic. Good to see you coming to the states in June and, by the way, good to see you searching in the right area!

  65. “cold gold”
    “cold bronze”

    McB the cold bronze chest reference is a good thought. I know you have not read the book but there is a reference to a bronze sculpted head in his gallery being cold to the touch.

    • AAron,

      If you go back a few years in GE you will find that some have more resolution than the current one.

      You can see more details of the ground.

      More:

      I already researched but did not find:

      Forrest has already spoken about whether Blaze is a structure or not? Something done, built or manufactured ??

      • You could be right. Or the posting of one fb pic is successfully blinding thousands of searchers from what is hiding in plain sight.

        Toby’s art seems to have the same level of matrixing that is found within Fenn’s TTOTC poem. IMHO and IMBW (i may be wrong).

    • I looked around and found a “Toby Pendington” illustrator from April 2016.
      Published in Unitedmags.com
      “Rhapsody”
      “The Bard in Flight”
      Looks like it could be some of the same type of work.

      Clearly Clueless

  66. In Forrests latest article he mentions that he hopes that someone will find the T.C.

    Do any of you guy’s think that he is referring to the same someone in his gut feeling?

    Ronnie the Scot.

    • Ronnie,
      See comments on Thor from kpro, who says they got a response from f, there are errors and misquotes in the article.

      It seemss to me the writer is one that follows Dal site and used quotes from the comment section, I dont believe this is one of the 2 articles Fenn mentioned, just a happenstance one someone did for their work.

  67. Mr. Forrest Fenn,

    The steam train followed wild valley,
    And left his paradise without rails,
    Stones seen from the top of the hill,
    Water for horses and thrill,
    Histories of past bravery,
    Memories almost forgotten and fails.

    McBrazil.

  68. On April 13 Dal said,
    “To advance toward the chest you must recognize the riddles that stand in the path. Perhaps it is a straight path if you know the question to ask at each riddle…the “key”.

    Haha, I think you’re right on the money with that Dal!

  69. Here’s one of my little travel/search tips if anyone is interested. If you’re wondering about snow conditions in a particular area, figure out the closest town to your search area. Do a google search for “real estate for sale (with your search area town name)”. For example “real estate for sale west yellowstone.”

    Check the “images” tab in the search and click the “tools” tab and then select “Past week.” You will see the most recent pictures a real estate agent has taken in that area; usually within a week which will show the current amount of snow in the area. Bear in mind that when you travel up into the mountains the snow usually gets deeper but it’s one more tool at your disposal. Happy hunting!

  70. I believe the statement by FF ” bring a flashlight and a sandwich” is FF telling us that a campground is part of the solve or a clue which gets you in the right area.
    Anyone who has camped at a campground for more than one night almost always makes sandwiches at some point during the camp and almost always uses a flashlight to make a trip to the restrooms some time after sunset.
    Hope this helps.

    • Kubrick’s Full Metal Jacket — a favorite! Vietnam vet R. Lee Ermey’s drill sergeant character (he had been one for the Marines in real life) is essential to the mood of the first half of the movie. 74 is so young these days.

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